# LD Husband Journalc



## TheCuriousWife

*LD Husband Journal*

EDITED 4/9/2018

MY MARRIAGE IS HAPPY AND WE HAVE SUCCESSFULLY IMPROVED SEXUAL MISMATCH. 
*
This thread is only for me to reflect back on, and to continue to chitchat with some of the wonderful people I have made friends with on TAM over the years. *

To sum up this thread I got married in 2012 when we were teenagers. I was a bit sex crazed and would like it everyday. My husband has a lower drive and responsive desire. He was also quite selfish in bed. I tried everything to fix it. He did not have any of the typical young male problems. No porn use, no trauma, he's not gay, he doesn't smoke or drink at all, he eats healthy and exercises.

We had lots of medical appointments which originally came back clean. Years later he tested for low Testosterone and low FSH. 

How we improved our marriage: I put my foot down and voiced/forced my needs. I stopped allowing him to be selfish. Then we went to sex and marriage counseling to work on our communication skills. We have a deep love for each other and that is the only thing that kept us together. We were both willing to work on issues and compromise. But the root of what works is COMMUNICATION. 

5 years later things aren't always sunshine and roses. But we are both at a place we are happy with. I have "cooled my jets" so to speak, and he tries hard to meet my needs. We have both matured and grown, and we communicate much better.

I am happy to answer any questions.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I also want to add that any other wives with LD husbands are welcome to post their story here. Maybe we can make it a resource of what we have tried in the past, and what did and didn't work, to help other wives out there with the same problem. 

So post away. I love hearing from others in similar situations!


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am not in a similar position but I have read dozens of stories of women who are, and have several close personal HD female friends who are or were in long term nearly or fully sexless marriages. I have experienced the push-pull you are describing about initiating though...but in your case, your husband is LD and therefore the frequency of sex isn't going to increase from his normal or natural level, no matter what changes occur in the intiation process.

I can say that of all the stories I've personally witnessed or read, the dynamic doesn't change and the sex doesn't increase. 

I have read some stories at Marriage Builders that had some better outcomes...not that many, however.

I don't know where you are at with this...are you willing to leave? Do you have kids?


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No kids yet. I'm not willing to leave.

Honestly only getting to have sex 2 or 3 times a week isn't a deal breaker to me. But it does upset me, and I'd like to work on making it better. If it can never be fixed, I can come to terms with it. But not until I try as hard as I can to change things. He enjoys sex when we have it. It's just getting there that is the hard part.


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I see...the amount of sex you are having isn't that low, just a tad lower than you would like ideally. I had you mixed up with someone who wasn't hardly getting any maybe.

Do you really think if you have to wait for him to make the first move, it will take him weeks to move in for it, or was that just something you said?


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes. I'm getting a lot more sex then some people. And I'm grateful for that. But it's just not enough for me. Besides that fact that probably 50% or more of that sex isn't quality sex. It's just pity sex, which we all know how fun that is.

It's not so much the quantity I want changed. That would be nice, but I'm more looking for quality. His current views on sex is that it is work, and I have to beg him into it a lot of times. I want to be desired, not a nagging wife giving her husband an extra chore.

I told him that in the moment. He wouldn't take weeks. A week, yes probably. I honestly don't think he ever has sex on the mind. I'm thinking about it, hours a day.


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hmm....that's a bummer. The women I know in your position - - it doesn't really change for them. Either they just finally accept things the way they are, or they stay frustrated and unfulfilled (but remain in the marriage). A few of them I know have cheated. Some have finally divorced. But I don't know any that have seen a full change around.

When you say it just isn't enough for you, but also say you aren't willing to leave about it...how do you see the future? Do you still feel he will just change enough to make you happy in the future?


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## nogutsnoglory

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Hmm....that's a bummer. The women I know in your position - - it doesn't really change for them. Either they just finally accept things the way they are, or they stay frustrated and unfulfilled (but remain in the marriage). A few of them I know have cheated. Some have finally divorced. But I don't know any that have seen a full change around.
> 
> When you say it just isn't enough for you, but also say you aren't willing to leave about it...how do you see the future? Do you still feel he will just change enough to make you happy in the future?


There has to be something that turns him on. You guys watch porn together? Does he love oral? are you attractive to him?
Sometimes LD is boredom. Not accusing just asking..


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"Sometimes LD is boredom."


Same is true for women with LD too, by the way.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When I say it isn't enough. I mean it bothers me enough to work on it. But I believe I could live with it if I have to. He loves me, and does care how I feel. I think he would try to change, but I also know people don't change overnight. I'm sure it will be a long process. And if it doesn't work, I'll have to decide later on if It's something I can continue to live with.

No porn. We feel like it wouldn't work for our relationship.

And he does get turned on, he just doesn't walk around ready to go 24/7 like is the man stereotype. If we start engaging in intimate activities he's easy to get aroused. He just doesn't seem as interested as I am, he has to be coaxed and wooed. It seems our "normal" sexual roles are reversed. I'm ready practically at any time to get started. He does love oral, and he gets it a lot. He thinks I'm attractive. 

I try not to be boring. I offer new positions, and try new things. I wear lingerie if he's in the mood for it. 

Sex just isn't on his mind as much as it is on mine, or as much as I expected it to be.

But he gets aroused, and he enjoys sex. He just has to be swayed to get the ball rolling.


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## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How would he react if you turned him down?


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I do turn him down rarely. I always thought he purposely asked during times when he knew I wouldn't be interested. And after our discussion last night, It's true!

He likes to ask after 11pm when I'm already asleep and have to get up early for work. Or when we are about to walk out the door to go to something important. 

When I tell him no, he pushes the issue, and pleads. But if I've told him no, it's because I absolutely can't do it then. ^ As stated above. If he asks me, and we have the time, I don't turn him down.

But maybe I should try it. Maybe in some sort of weird way he would like it?


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## garden2013

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> When I say it isn't enough. I mean it bothers me enough to work on it. But I believe I could live with it if I have to. He loves me, and does care how I feel. I think he would try to change, but I also know people don't change overnight. I'm sure it will be a long process. And if it doesn't work, I'll have to decide later on if It's something I can continue to live with.
> 
> No porn. We feel like it wouldn't work for our relationship.
> 
> And he does get turned on, he just doesn't walk around ready to go 24/7 like is the man stereotype. If we start engaging in intimate activities he's easy to get aroused. He just doesn't seem as interested as I am, he has to be coaxed and wooed. It seems our "normal" sexual roles are reversed. I'm ready practically at any time to get started. He does love oral, and he gets it a lot. He thinks I'm attractive.
> 
> I try not to be boring. I offer new positions, and try new things. I wear lingerie if he's in the mood for it.
> 
> Sex just isn't on his mind as much as it is on mine, or as much as I expected it to be.
> 
> But he gets aroused, and he enjoys sex. He just has to be swayed to get the ball rolling.



Sounds like you and I are in the exact same relationship  my husband and I had a very long talk over the weekend that I really hope helped. I just told him how important intimacy was to me in our relationship and how i felt like i didnt turn him on anymore. 

After 3 times all year long...had it twice in one weekend lol. He even initiated. It was great! Hate to get my hopes up too soon...but so far so good!!!

:smthumbup:


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## Batman4691

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Strange how some men like being the pursuer over the one being pursued. Probably just a matter of preference.
I enjoy playing both roles depending upon the situation, but do prefer being the one pursued.

Your marriage is well ahead of the curve if you are regularly having sex 2-3 times a week, for an average of 12 times a month. That's great.
Compared to some (my) current marriages involving a true LD partner which is just once a month on average.

I agree with you, it really isn't a matter of the quantity of sex but the quality of the sexual encounter as well.
I would be happy with my one a month routine my wife has us on, it that one time was one that left a smile on my face that needed to be surgically removed. (And the thing is, my wife knows how to do that to me, but hasn't in a few years.) 

TheCuriousWife, 
Do you and your husband engage in other forms of intimacy, like cuddling and spooning in the nude while in bed? 
One thing I have found out on the forum, is that some people find some sexual satisfaction from just that kind of closeness.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Batman4691 said:


> I agree with you, it really isn't a matter of the quantity of sex but the quality of the sexual encounter as well.
> I would be happy with my one a month routine my wife has us on, it that one time was one that left a smile on my face that needed to be surgically removed. (And the thing is, my wife knows how to do that to me, but hasn't in a few years.)
> 
> TheCuriousWife,
> Do you and your husband engage in other forms of intimacy, like cuddling and spooning in the nude while in bed?
> One thing I have found out on the forum, is that some people find some sexual satisfaction from just that kind of closeness.


Right. Many times sex just seems sort of robotic for him. Not much passion, just "lets get this thing over with." I'm not sure if he is trying to come across that way or not, but it really puts a damper on me trying to enjoy it, and even if I do orgasm, it doesn't always leave me satisfied. It just makes me feel selfish for making him do something he really doesn't want to do.

We don't do a lot of snuggling. I try sometimes, but we're both pretty busy, and he usually finds something else to do. For sure not in the nude. He keeps his clothes on. I tried yesterday to snuggle up to him while he was reading and he just kind of wiggled and said something about being crowded. He was joking, but I scooted away and that was the end of that. 

Monday during his pleading for sex after he upset me, he made promises such as, "We can have a quickie tomorrow, and sex again on Wednesday before you leave, I'll sleep naked for a week, I'll give you a massage every night, etc..."

Things he knows I like, but doesn't normally do. 

Well yesterday evening rolls around, and I almost initiated the quickie that we had planned but caught myself. (Who knew I'd have trouble already.) Anyway I didn't say a peep about it, and to no surprise he didn't make one mention of it. Despite the promises the day before, and the conversation about how much he wanted one. I even slept topless and the only comment I got was "Where's your shirt?"

None of the other promises were followed through either. Yesterday like most days the only intimacy we had was an I love you, and a quick peck on the lips before bed. 

That's why I have trouble believing him when he says we can have sex the next day if we just do a quickie today or a blow job. He never follows through and I get left high and dry for days. He just seems to forget about sex. I'm thinking about it all day and looking forward to it, so I take it personally when he forgets or doesn't want to.

Pray that I can stay strong and not initiate tonight. Part of me thinks he won't even bring it up, but he might suggest it just because he knows I'm leaving for a few days. So who knows.

It's so weird. Because he is so good to me with everything else. It's just like he doesn't think, or is clueless about intimacy. When we were dating he was the romantic, and always wanting to make out and snuggle. I was the one who thought it was just so so. Now the tables have turned, and I don't like it.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I did buy _She Comes First. _ He flipped through it a few times and that is it. It didn't do anything for us because we don't like oral on me. (Although I did forget to share that he insisted on giving me oral last week for the first time in probably 6 months.)

I think giving him a book on female orgasm would somehow tell him that I think he is bad at it, or that I'm criticizing. And I don't want to do that. His technique isn't bad, just his passion.


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## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Seems like he doesn't get it. Some guys simply want to get off, but they MAY not realize that the best sex is a result of making it a mind blowing experience for the partner. There's nothing like even the most conservative wife/gf, frantically pulling you onto her after she's been blown into a million pieces from her O via a good round of oral.


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious Wife...I'm glad you are continuing to post here, it helps for others to realize that women can be in the position of wanting more sex than their husbands, and therefore helps change the stereo-type thinking.

Did you look at this article SB posted on the "why does sex have to stop..." thread?

Sex Confessions: 13 Women Who Want Sex More Than Their Male Partners Share Their Stories

There are no "answers" on this article, but it does help to hi-light that you are far from alone, and there are many reasons men are LD, just as there are many reasons a woman might be LD.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That was a very interesting article Faithful Wife. 

I am exactly like the first poster in that article. Minus the children and working 6 days a week. 5 days here.

I can relate to almost all those stories though. 

It's sad because is seems to be an abnormal problem. I see so many other threads where the wife is LD and it's just so disheartening to be on the other side of the same problem. I feel like most people just don't understand how hurtful it is to not feel desired by their husband, and how sad it is to have to beg for sex. When men are suppose to be "wild and horny all the time." It just simply isn't true, as I found out the hard way.

Ps. I read your blog. I envy you. Congratz on your wonderful sexual life, I'm sure it took some work to get there.


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes it did take a lot of work to get here....also I had to get divorced from a painful, sad sexless marriage, and go out there and sort through dates and try to find what I was looking for. I read dating books and advice on exactly how to do that...a lot of those books ended up helping me have a better overall understanding of male-female dynamics that ultimately did help me find what I was looking for but ALSO helped me make sense of my own past mistakes in my previous marriage and in dating. I found that the best thing I did in studying up was to really become aware of my own motivations....had to be come self-aware before I could self-awarely pick the "right" man.

Have you read this book? It is a must read in your sitch.

The Sex-Starved Wife: What to Do When He's Lost Desire: Michele Weiner Davis: 9780743266277: Amazon.com: Books


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

From the book description:

In 2003, bestselling author and relationship expert Michele Weiner Davis' groundbreaking book, The Sex-Starved Marriage described the problems that occur in marriage when one spouse is vastly more interested in sex than the other and more importantly, what the couple could do to fix things. The book created quite a stir, but no one expected what happened next. 

Weiner Davis was flooded with e-mails, letters, and phone calls from women, not with "headaches" and other predictable excuses for avoiding sex, but from women who were desperately unhappy because their husbands weren't the least bit interested in sex. Nothing these women said or did got their men to understand the pain and isolation that comes from a sexual void, and despite heartfelt pleas, they were unable to convince their husbands to seek professional help. Add to this the unspoken taboo about discussing low libido in men, and these women were left to believe that they were the only ones dealing with this problem. 


If this sounds like your situation, Weiner Davis wants to tell you that you are not alone, and it is not your fault: there is a whole host of reasons why your husband might be experiencing low desire. Although Weiner Davis explains reasons men lose interest in sex--biological issues, personal troubles, and relationship problems--she's convinced that understanding the cause of a problem won't make your sex life any juicier; doing something about it will. The Sex-Starved Wife gives you the tools you need to present the information in the book so that your husband will not become defensive. You'll even learn methods for overcoming sexual dysfunctions such as performance anxiety, premature ejaculation, and effective ways for dealing with pornography or infidelity. If you and your spouse need additional support, Weiner Davis offers concrete advice on how to get your man to visit his doctor or seek other professional help. 


When it comes to marriage, Weiner Davis has seen it all. She knows how important loving, satisfying sex is to a healthy marriage. The straightforward, psychobabble-free advice in this book will help you create the intimacy and connection for which you've been longing.


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sadly....the book doesn't actually have any answers that you likely haven't already tried and thought of. In the end of the book she does say that this is very unlikely to change and that you might have to get divorced.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm not looking to find a new man and start over, but I do want to work on what I have. I love my husband dearly, that's probably why I take the rejection so hard. To me it feels like I don't meet his approval or something even though I know that's not the case. I know this problem is something that is wrong with him and not me. But it still hurts.

Thank you for the book suggestion, I'll have to look into it.


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## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes Curious Wife....I didn't mean to assume or project that YOU would personally have to get divorced....I just meant that is the conclusion of the book above (ie: that sometimes nothing will change and some women will end up leaving).

I never wanted to be divorced or leave to find another man. That was how it turned out in my sitch, though. I spent a lot of years just going around in circles not understanding what was happening. Unfortunately this was pre-internet and I was not aware enough to figure anything out on my own....like what books to read. I ended up thinking all kinds of bizarre things that never helped my sitch at all.

Everything could have been much different in my first marriage if I had handled things differently...but I still think we would have ended up D'd either way.

Anyway, that's just my story, hopefully yours will turn a totally different direction.

One thing though...if your H could really understand that divorce MIGHT happen if NO changes EVER occur...he will be more motivated to take you seriously about getting your needs met. Because neither my ex-h nor myself really understood a divorce might occur, we wasted a whole lot of time floundering around. We basically thought it would "fix itself". We were truly naive.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I see where your coming from. You have good advice, and I appreciate it. 

Right now I don't think that at 2 or 3 times a week it's worth a divorce. If in 10 years it's down to once or twice a month I will really have to do a recheck. I would for sure voice my opinion that a divorce would happen if things didn't change. I hope that I never flounder around for years truly unhappy. Right now the good outweighs the bad, but that may not be the case eventually, and I understand that.

I'm glad you got through it and came out better. You are blessed.


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## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So you say he won't see anyone, but does the family doctor have anything to say?
My drive went into the dumpster for a bit several years ago and a blood test showed I was severely vitamin D deficient, like in the single digits when it's supposed to be 60-110 units. 
I was prescribed some large doses to get back up to normal and now take these mens one a day vitamins and they really help keep my pep up...probably too much if you ask my wife
It could be something as simple as that.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

badcompany

He got a new job a few months ago and his insurance doesn't kick in until Aug. 1st. So no doctor visits before then.

But he doesn't see it as a problem, so I doubt he would want to go get tested. I couldn't blame him, I've spent a lot of time in hospitals with chronic heart and lung diseases so I fight tooth and nail not to go to the hospital either. Maybe I could recommend he takes a vitamin, but I'm not sure to go about it without hurting his ego?

Last night I was really quiet. One of his pet turtles is dying and he was pretty upset, so there wasn't much conversation from either of us. I didn't think he was going to initiate but at 10pm surprisingly he asked if we could have sex to take his mind off it.

It was pretty late, and neither of us was real cheerful, so it wasn't passionate or wild. But we both had a good time, and we even did it out on the front porch. We had to get up and run inside three times while a care passed, but I think he liked the thrill. 

In other news this morning was the last time I was going to see him before the trip and we planned on getting up early to visit before work. He forgot to set his alarm, and he woke up 30 minutes late. Then about 5 minutes after getting out of bed, we are in the kitchen eating breakfast and suddenly 5 kids are running around screaming outside and knocking on doors and windows.

My mom had shown up with my 5, 11 year old cousins at 7am. And here we are in the kitchen, and he's in his boxers and the entire wall of the kitchen is windows. We're both mad, and he goes to put some clothes on and there is kids looking in the bedroom windows too. gr.

Praise the Lord I had decided to sleep in clothes last night. Usually I go shirtless. Or if we had woken up when we were suppose to, we might have been having a quickie. So it could have been a lot worse. But we are both very mad at my mother. She said they were just stopping by to say hi? At 7am... without warning. 

So there went my last morning with my husband for a few days. *sigh*


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## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The vitamins are an on the shelf item no prescription needed. Maybe buy the womens and mens version for both of you in the general sense of better health and energy and see what happens from there. Whatever gives me the sexual boost is the best in the men's one a day, followed by the 50+ mens one a day, and the unisex adult one a day vitamin was only a so-so improvement.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Friday evening husband didn't text me or call or anything.While the other ladies there were getting calls from their husbands and doing the whole, "I miss you, no I miss you...." Routine, I couldn't even get a reply back from my texts. No goodnight or anything. 

I came home earlier on Saturday to spend the day with my husband since it's our only day off together. He had stayed up all night hanging out with a friend and was asleep when I got home at 11am. I asked him about never replying for the last 24 hours and he is just like "oops I didn't have my phone on me." :/ It was in the same room as him, so I guess he just forgot about me.

He was tired and cranky. He didn't even want to scoot over so I could crawl into bed with him, and instead of spending our day together doing something fun he slept most of it or laid around. Despite being gone Thursday and Friday I got no kisses, or I missed yous. He finally initiated sex at like 9pm and we had fun, but it stunk that I came home early from a girls weekend to spend some quality time with husband because we are so busy that we never see each other, and he didn't even really talk or touch me at all until right before bed.

It made me sad when my other married friends are going on about how they have sex everyday, and how they had done it 7 times in one day, and they are being all kissy and snuggling, and I'm struggling to get my husband to even acknowledge me sexually. It just makes me want to cry.

PMS doesn't help. And the whole thing is just making me sadder and sadder right now.

It's NOT normal for a guy to be able to only have sex once every 24 hours, and even then is pushing it. 

We haven't had sex two days in a row for over 6 months. I find myself fantasizing about having sex before bed, and waking up and going at it again. But I know it will never happen again. It hasn't happened since our honeymoon.

I looked at the vitamins. I'm going to try to bring them up today and see what he thinks. I doubt he will take them, even if we both do it and I tell him it's just to make us healthier.

He's so good in everything else except the physical, and he wasn't like that the 5 years we dated. He used to love making out, and snuggling, and holding hands. Now I try to hold his hand when we are at the store or whatever he he is just limp, and lets goes asap. One of his complaints is that we never kiss enough. But last night before bed I tried to kiss him, and I asked if we could make out and he just said "maybe tomorrow" and rolled over and went to sleep. 

I hate getting too dramatic because I know it's the hormones talking, but there is truth to it. 

Just feeling sorry for myself today. Why doesn't my husband act like he loves me?


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot something!

Another thing that ticked me off is that on Saturday I was showering and he climbed in with me. Which is great, I love showering together but he never does it.

Well I'm shaving and he has his back to me. And in the reflection of the wall I see he's *masturbating.* 

I didn't say anything. 

He wasn't even looking at me, and he just finished up his shower quickly and hoped out, with no kisses, or anything sexual in my direction. Then after I got out, that's when he initiated sex.

What the heck.

What, so he got himself horny, and I was just a means to relieve himself? 

If he was horny he could have made any sort of move, and I would have gladly had a shower make out session or gave him oral. I was hoping that is what he was doing when he got in the shower. But no, he'd rather rub himself.

He doesn't ever masturbate to completion, but I do catch him rubbing himself sometimes. He just does it for a few minutes then stops and goes back to whatever he was doing.

Now I'm wondering if he does masturbate.

I didn't think he ever masturbated because he seems so uninterested in sexual things. 

It was and is really hurtful, I also find it rude that I was like 6 inches from him while he was doing it. I'm begging for sex, and always upset about it, and he might be taking care of himself. It just makes me want to smack him. 

I might have to sit down and have a talk, and I find if he is masturbating. Up until Saturday I didn't think he was, but now it has me wondering, and it's really upsetting me.


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## ClimbingTheWalls

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm married to a LD husband. Have been for over 22 years.

It started out fine; in fact we were like rabbits for the first year. Then it gradually dwindled to once a week, then once a month, then birthdays and Christmas....you get the picture.

Eventually we went through a patch of 3 1/2 years with no sex at all. None. That took its toll on me. Recently things came to a crunch and I said I wanted a divorce. And meant it, too. There were other issues besides the sex, but I have always felt that intimacy and good sex is glue for a marriage where there are some other temporary difficulties.

This caused quite a shock to him and he vowed to do anything in his power to keep me.

He has erectile dysfunction which does not help at all but he went to the doctor and got Viagra.

At the moment we are at the stage of doing it probably once a week. The Viagra rather ruins being spontaneous about it, of course, and if I am honest the sex is not all that great.(It never was.) But the rest of the marriage is good and even getting back to intimacy and some kind of sex life has helped enormously.

All that said, if I had not threatened to walk out, nothing would ever have changed. I had to make it clear that I was at breaking point. Even now I have had to think long and hard about whether I am able to cope with our current sex life, because it really is mediocre at best. I've taken the view that the rest of the relationship is too good to throw it away over mediocre sex, but continued total absence of sex had become intolerable.

It is absolutely horrid when you just want your other half to want you, and they give no indication whatsoever that they do.

I hope things improve for you but it sounds to me like you might have to put your foot down a bit more for that to happen.


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## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm trying the wait and let him initiate approach right now, and I'll try to vitamins.

If things don't start looking up very soon, I'm going to have to put my foot down and throw a big stink to let him know I'm serious.

I just feel bad sometimes. I feel like I'm being a jerk demanding sex, and I feel like a jerk when he gives me pity sex. 

Part of me feels like I should be happy with what we have. But part of me is very much lacking and wanting the snuggling, kissing, passion, and desire. I just don't know that you can make someone want you.

I had a long talk with my closest friend last night. She's the only person I feel safe enough to talk to outside of the anonymous internet. She offered her advice, and is there to support me, so that is nice. But at the same time, she agreed something is wrong, and it made me think more about the problems, and made me madder.

I wish I could read my husbands mind.


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## ClimbingTheWalls

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It occurs to me that if he wants to be the pursuer maybe you should try playing that to your advantage if you are happy to be a bit brash and flirty.

For example, get some nice new underwear that you know he will like. Just as you are going out to work, or the store, or something, flick up your skirt and say something like "Look at my new sexy undies! Shame we don't have time for you to get a closer look" and then wiggle your backside at him and leave. Don't do anything overtly sexy when you come back, but keep trying the occasional wiggle as you accidently drop something and bend down to retrieve it.

Or ask him to help you rub some lotion in your back as you are getting ready to go out somewhere. Anything that might get him in the mood at a time when he can't have his way.

Sounds corny but it might just gee him up enough to initiate when there is time. 

You have said that you don't have much time together - what do you do when you do have time? I know that this last weekend he just stayed in bed, which is rude, but is this a regular thing with him? Does he go out with his friends often or only when you are away?


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It made me sad when my other married friends are going on about how they have sex everyday, and how they had done it 7 times in one day, and they are being all kissy and snuggling, (


You have a very sexual circle of friends. I haven't heard of many couples who have been together for any length of time who are having sex 1-7 times per day. 

In my early twenties I remember 5 times in a row over the course of a morning in bed. 25 years later that doesn't happen any more. Unless something triggers a sexual thought I don't really crave sex more than every second day. 

My thoughts are you aren't going to successfully guilt him into sex. In fact any attempt down that road is more likely to put him on the defensive. I suggest you look for things that trigger him to get him in the mood..be it expressing fantasies...sleeping nude etc. Let him think it's his idea to initiate.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'll try being more flirty. I've already been upping that recently. Giving him quick pecks, and being a tease. But I'll ramp it up some more.

He often hangs out with friends. Last night he went to play Frisbee, he usually has Baseball on Mondays and Fridays. And he usually hangs out with friends 1 or 2 other nights a week. He probably only stays home 2 evenings a week average. It will slow down once fall hits because many of his friends will be going back to college. Praise the Lord.

We don't do as much as we should. Our days off together are usually spent relaxing, or going grocery shopping. Sometimes we go out to eat. But not a whole lot of activity. We are pretty limited in our area. About 1 or 2 times a months we go see a movie, or drive to the mall. 

MaritimeGuy we are in our 20's. All our friends and us have been married in the past 2 years. So we should be in our sexual prime. 

I don't want to guilt him into sex. That's why I've been hesitant to throw a big stink. I don't want him to resent me, or feel like that's all I care about. 

I am trying that approach now, and it's not working too great. I could be wearing lingerie and sprawled out on the bed with candles when he got home from work, and he'd have no second thought to go work outside or play some xbox before coming in and "taking care of me."


----------



## ntamph

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Since I've had so many threads going on the issues with my LD husband I thought I'd stick them all together, and just keep my updates here.
> 
> Last night I had an epiphany of sorts.
> 
> Our last couple sexual encounters haven't been great. I've felt pressured and have had trouble getting to climax. I know he gets bored after a while, so then I start getting panicked, and it's just a bad cycle.
> 
> I'm leaving Thursday on a trip, so I was hoping to get a time or two of sex before I leave. Husband was supposed to have softball practice last night, but he cancelled to spend the evening with me. I was thinking that meant an intimate evening. So I waited, and waited. And by 9pm he hadn't brought anything up.
> 
> So I casually initiated sex. He went on to give me the talk about how he was tired (after an evening of relaxing) and how sex and getting me to orgasm was exhausting. He told me we could have sex tomorrow. But that would mean only once this week. And when I get back from my trip I'll only have a day or two before my period and another week of no sex.
> 
> I explained to him that I orgasm faster than most girls, and most other husbands don't find it exhausting. I told him it hurts my feelings when he makes comments about it being work.
> 
> So then he's like "How about a quickie." Which means no stimulation for me. I told him we could have a quickie tomorrow, when we are less free time, but he insisted.
> 
> So i dropped the issue and just went back to cleaning the house. After a while he noticed I was upset, and then turned it around saying how now he feels bad, and that we can have sex.
> 
> I explained that being rejected and told I'm exhausting put me out of the mood and that I'd rather wait until tomorrow.
> 
> In the end he begged me into sex. I insisted on a quickie but he wouldn't do it. Instead he just attempted to get me to orgasm for 30 minutes despite my protests. Until I made him quit because it was hurting. Which ended with us both unhappy.
> 
> Even though it was a crappy night, I did more get information out of him about his LD than I ever have before.
> 
> He said he wanted to be the pursuer. He said sex was no fun because anytime he'd offer it I'd jump right on the bandwagon, and he didn't have to work for it.
> 
> 
> Apparently all this telling me no until I'm upset, then him feeling bad and talking me into it, is just some sort of game for him to feel like it was an accomplishment to talk me into it. :scratchhead:
> 
> It sure makes me feel crappy to be told no then him be like, "well if you really want to I guess we can have sex." That was how he was getting turned on, while I was getting turned off.
> 
> I kind of understand that it's suppose to be the mans duty or whatever to initiate, but I told him if I wanted on him to make the first move I'd be waiting for weeks.
> 
> I just don't understand why he wants a LD wife so he can feel like sex is a prize. In my opinion it's much funner if both partners are wanting it. *sigh*
> 
> Anyway, I've vowed to myself to not initiate for a while and maybe play a little hard to get and see what happens. That seems like that is what he wants, and I'm willing to try anything for my husband to desire me more.
> 
> I hope I can hold out. It's hard for me to make it more than a few days. :/


I would divorce him OP. It's natural for women to not like sex but when a man is turning a woman down something is very, very, very wrong.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

ntamph: _"It's natural for women to not like sex but when a man is turning a woman down something is very, very, very wrong."_


This is a totally ignorant statement.


----------



## TCSRedhead

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ntamph said:


> I would divorce him OP. It's natural for women to not like sex but when a man is turning a woman down something is very, very, very wrong.


It's not uncommon and there are many reasons, such as low testosterone, self esteem, worried about performance, unhappiness in the relationship. 

Not ALL men want to bang 24/7.


----------



## ntamph

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> ntamph: _"It's natural for women to not like sex but when a man is turning a woman down something is very, very, very wrong."_
> 
> 
> This is a totally ignorant statement.


Sex Drive: How Do Men and Women Compare?


----------



## TCSRedhead

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ntamph said:


> Sex Drive: How Do Men and Women Compare?


Here's some reading for you:

Low Libido in Men: Causes and Remedies


----------



## ntamph

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TCSRedhead said:


> Here's some reading for you:
> 
> Low Libido in Men: Causes and Remedies


I didn't say that all men have high drives and all women have low drives.

There are exceptions to every rule. However, my link proves that on average the male and female sex drives are not remotely comparable.


----------



## TCSRedhead

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ntamph said:


> I didn't say that all men have high drives and all women have low drives.
> 
> There are exceptions to every rule. However, my link proves that on average the male and female sex drives are not remotely comparable.


From the article:

Conventional wisdom tends to be more convention than wisdom, and the idea that women have a low libido while men’s sex drive is stuck in high gear is a perfect example. Truth be told, a lot of guys don’t find their engines running as hot as they might like.

“It’s an interesting hidden problem,” says Louanne Cole Weston, PhD. Weston is a marriage and family therapist and board-certified sex therapist in Fair Oaks, California. “Men who have a reduced sex drive don’t want to talk about it, and the women with them don’t want to talk about it either. The women are afraid if they say much about it, people will think either the man’s really gay, or she’s a ‘bad lay’ or too unattractive to stir his passions. And the man has the myth that you’re supposed to want it all the time, anywhere.”


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

ntamph...if you actually read the article you linked to us, you'll find the "evidence" was all based on self-reported findings. In other words, the same problem exists as what Red noted: men will under report lower sex drive and women will under report higher sex drive.

And if that is true, we can conclude the we are ALL close to the middle "on average", male and female.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

ntamph I don't think that it's okay for women to be LD but if a man is LD that you should divorce them. I don't think it's "natural" for anyone to be low drive, no matter what gender. 

Both Faithful Wife and TCSRedhead are right.

And if you've read any of my other posts, you could see I'm not divorcing the man I love. He has his problems, but the upsides largely outweigh the downsides in our relationship. 

I'm looking to rant, share my story, and get helpful advice to improve the situation I'm in. Many people have said to divorce. But that is off the table. I believe in one man for life, for the most part. I married this man, it wasn't a rash decision. 

Unless things are absolutely horrible, miserable, abusive, or adulterous I won't be dropping out of this marriage anytime soon.


----------



## TCSRedhead

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh I forgot something!
> 
> Another thing that ticked me off is that on Saturday I was showering and he climbed in with me. Which is great, I love showering together but he never does it.
> 
> Well I'm shaving and he has his back to me. And in the reflection of the wall I see he's *masturbating.*
> 
> I didn't say anything.
> 
> He wasn't even looking at me, and he just finished up his shower quickly and hoped out, with no kisses, or anything sexual in my direction. Then after I got out, that's when he initiated sex.
> 
> What the heck.
> 
> What, so he got himself horny, and I was just a means to relieve himself?
> 
> If he was horny he could have made any sort of move, and I would have gladly had a shower make out session or gave him oral. I was hoping that is what he was doing when he got in the shower. But no, he'd rather rub himself.
> 
> He doesn't ever masturbate to completion, but I do catch him rubbing himself sometimes. He just does it for a few minutes then stops and goes back to whatever he was doing.
> 
> Now I'm wondering if he does masturbate.
> 
> I didn't think he ever masturbated because he seems so uninterested in sexual things.
> 
> It was and is really hurtful, I also find it rude that I was like 6 inches from him while he was doing it. I'm begging for sex, and always upset about it, and he might be taking care of himself. It just makes me want to smack him.
> 
> I might have to sit down and have a talk, and I find if he is masturbating. Up until Saturday I didn't think he was, but now it has me wondering, and it's really upsetting me.


I would really say to have a direct conversation about this. I wonder if he has some serious performance concerns that are causing this?


----------



## ntamph

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> ntamph...if you actually read the article you linked to us, you'll find the "evidence" was all based on self-reported findings. In other words, the same problem exists as what Red noted: men will under report lower sex drive and women will under report higher sex drive.
> 
> And if that is true, we can conclude the we are ALL close to the middle "on average", male and female.


I'll take statistics over an anecdotal story from ONE doctor any day.


----------



## Oddity

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Might as well post a few of my thoughts, seeing as this is kind of looking into a mirror except from the opposite perspective. 

My wife wants it and wants me to be more aggressive/initiate more. I’m always hesitant because of a few past failures. Now I think about it off and on but nowhere near the amount I feel like I should be. I do have low “T” though so that’s a part of the problem, definitely not the be all and end all however. I’ve been on androgel for close to 2 months and no difference so far; I’m getting impatient and want to try something else. 

In the past I watched quite a bit of porn and masturbated but since I’ve had a few “issues” I’ve given that up as a site I read about knocked some sense into me. Now sometimes before anything happens I’ll rub myself to get a little hard because if I don’t I find it hard to get an erection with no stimulation. It works if she does it too obviously. A fail safe move is her giving me oral, but can’t come to expect that all the time.

One thing I have learned is I will never refuse sex outright. I’ve been tempted with the thought that it’s better to not do it at all then to do it and fail. That’s the wrong mindset however. 

I do however “frequently” miss the signs that she is in the mood. I’m getting better, but hate it when she tells me the next morning; you know I was ready for you last night,

Now a few things that have worked / been the recent success’s we’ve had are:

During the playoff’s she came down in a silk nighty with no undies, I was taken by complete surprise. I definitely initiated then and once we got going had no trouble sustaining a hard on. The other time was just a trip with the two of us, no kids. It was for a special event so we actual took are time to put ourselves together. Very rarely does that happen, but I thought I looked quite good and thought even more so of my wife. Guess I had a little confidence boost and didn’t really think about anything else except how much I was enjoying having sex with my wife.

Let’s just say for me, it comes to a very powerful mind game. I’m not exactly winning, but don’t want to give up either as she’s mentioned “How long do you want me to stay, I’m in my mid 20’s and should be having more sex”. 

Can’t say I blame her, it’s not so much about me not wanting it but more about the fear of not being able to perform. Pisses me off though, because I know we’ve had fantastic sex in the past.

Anywho, feel free to check out my post as it’s kind of a journal as well, just from my perspective of the LD husband.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

and besides ntamph....your assertation that something is "very, very, very" wrong with a man for turning a woman down and that it is "natural for a woman to not like sex" are what I am saying are ignorant statements. YOU said these things, these are not what is being said on WebMD. 

If WebMD made a statement that "it is normal for a woman to not like sex", there would be an incredible backlash from angry, NORMALLY FUNCTIONING women who LOVE SEX everywhere.

I would be one of them.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TCSRedhead said:


> I would really say to have a direct conversation about this. I wonder if he has some serious performance concerns that are causing this?


I have wondered that at the beginning of our marriage.

On our honeymoon we found out he can only really get hard and orgasm about once every 24 hours. Which I think is weird.

Of course we were trying for 3 or 4 times. And one day he couldn't get it up. It scared him, and for over a day and a half he would get performance anxiety and go limp. It was so discouraging and he thought he was less of a man.

Since then he has never tried for more than once in one day. And in the last 6 months never more than every other day.

I think something is wrong if he can only go every 24 hours. But I don't know what.

At first I thought it was performance issues. But he has no trouble getting an erection now that we are down to at least every 2 days. So I don't really think that is it. It's been close to a year since we've had any trouble.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oddity thanks for your point of view! I'm reading your topic now.

If it was just performance anxiety I feel like we could work through it. But I don't think that's the problem. When he was having some trouble at first, I was never mean or anything. I was very supportive, and didn't make it out to be a big deal. It's been such a long time, I highly doubt he still thinks about that. 

He just doesn't seem very interested in sex.


----------



## TCSRedhead

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It could be lingering issues in his own mind about performance, about what you think about his performance, etc. It's definitely worth having a conversation to explain how much you're attracted to him, what you like about when you DO have sex, what frequency you'd really like, and then ask him about you.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Anxiety can be an issue. It could be perfomance anxiety as has been suggested or simply anxiety about outside issues such as kids, finances or work. Is he a person that tends to worry a lot?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes. I'd love to get his T level checked. But our doctor is the mother of 3 of our closest friends. She lived about a mile away, and we are always visiting. 

He absolutely won't go to the doctor because he doesn't think he has a problem, and he thinks it would be humiliating for our friend to know about his sexual problems. I can understand, but at the same time, Id feel so much better if I knew it was just a low T problem, and we could work on it. 

Maybe it is still performance issues, who knows. But how do I fix it? I always tell him how great he is in bed, I praise and smile, and tell him how hot he is.. etc. I'm always very vocal about enjoying it. I don't know what else I could do.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> Anxiety can be an issue. It could be perfomance anxiety as has been suggested or simply anxiety about outside issues such as kids, finances or work. Is he a person that tends to worry a lot?



No kids, our finances are fine, and he loves his work.

He isn't a person to worry. He is a really calm person, and not easily stressed. 

It's a really weird case, and I just wish I knew what the problem was.


----------



## TCSRedhead

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Direct conversation:

Honey, I've got some things I'd like to discuss. I love you very much and want to make our marriage as fulfilling for both of us as possible. 

Then talk about things just as clearly as you have here. Explain how you feel about these things.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We have had this conversation many times over. He doesn't have answers. He just denys the problems. He just says "He loves sex. He doesn't think its a chore. He does desire me..." It makes me crazy, but he honestly see no problem with our physical life except that I'm constantly upset about it.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Will he be physically intimate with you even if it doesn't lead to intercourse? 

He could engage in kissing and touching you while you orgasm even if it doens't lead to him getting off. You could engage in that more frequently to meet your needs while engaging in full on sex less frequently for his needs. My guess is once he see's you getting turned on he'll change his mind and decide to participate more often than not.


----------



## Oddity

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He absolutely won't go to the doctor because he doesn't think he has a problem, and he thinks it would be humiliating for our friend to know about his sexual problems. I can understand, but at the same time, Id feel so much better if I knew it was just a low T problem, and we could work on it.


This is Bull to me. I was in the same boat until I found out how much it actually affected my wife. Sitting by idly sure as heck wasn’t doing anything. Plus the more I read about it the more I thought it could be a possibility. My wife thought everything was in my head, but then it came back and even she was a little bit surprised. I was happy to get some sort of answer, and the wife knew I was taking it seriously. Still two months with no improvement (guess I’ll be doing another blood test to find out for sure) takes its toll.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you checked his computer to see if he is watching a lot of porn? I know you said earlier in one of your posts that neither you or your husband thought porn was good for your marriage. But, I have read similar stories to yours on this board before and in some of those, the wife finds out the husband is hiding his porn use. The husbands would rather masturbate to porn than have sex with his wife. I'm certainly not insinuating that is your husband's problem, but it could be something to check into. 

Hope things work out for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> Will he be physically intimate with you even if it doesn't lead to intercourse?
> 
> He could engage in kissing and touching you while you orgasm even if it doens't lead to him getting off. You could engage in that more frequently to meet your needs while engaging in full on sex less frequently for his needs. My guess is once he see's you getting turned on he'll change his mind and decide to participate more often than not.



He would not be interested in putting the time in to get me to orgasm if he wasn't going to get one too. He already thinks it's a chore, so if he didn't get his "reward" I don't think he would enjoy it at all. 

That doesn't keep him from asking for quickies and BJs for him though. It's okay for him to have an orgasm and not me, even though I'm the one who is practically dying for sex and he could care less. :scratchhead: 

He doesn't like me touching him sexually at all if we aren't actively having sex. It's like he's scared he will get turned on, and then he'll want to do it. 

When we were dating we were always feeling each other, and making out. Now I practically have to beg for any form of contact. It's like now that the challenge is gone for him, he's not interested anymore.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Have you checked his computer to see if he is watching a lot of porn? I know you said earlier in one of your posts that neither you or your husband thought porn was good for your marriage. But, I have read similar stories to yours on this board before and in some of those, the wife finds out the husband is hiding his porn use. The husbands would rather masturbate to porn than have sex with his wife. I'm certainly not insinuating that is your husband's problem, but it could be something to check into.
> 
> Hope things work out for you.


Yes I've stated before. We have NO internet, and NO computer at home. (I have a desk job, so I'm online daily.) No porn.

The only time husband has internet is once a week at his parents when we go there for lunch. And I'm always right there, and all he does to look up baseball news.

So I'm 100% sure thats not the problem.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What about his phone?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He has a construction phone with no data.

He works in an ammunition warehouse. No internet at work either.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah so based on that and everything else...to me it just sounds like you are very HD and he is not really LD but much lower than you.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He would not be interested in putting the time in to get me to orgasm if he wasn't going to get one too. He already thinks it's a chore, so if he didn't get his "reward" I don't think he would enjoy it at all.
> 
> That doesn't keep him from asking for quickies and BJs for him though. It's okay for him to have an orgasm and not me, even though I'm the one who is practically dying for sex and he could care less. :scratchhead:
> 
> He doesn't like me touching him sexually at all if we aren't actively having sex. It's like he's scared he will get turned on, and then he'll want to do it.
> 
> When we were dating we were always feeling each other, and making out. Now I practically have to beg for any form of contact. It's like now that the challenge is gone for him, he's not interested anymore.


That sounds selfish to me. He's not prepared to have sex with you as frequently as you want yet is happy to have you bring him to orgasm which will only push back the next time he is ready to have sex with you. I'm afraid the more you let him get away with that the more he will. 

My whole point behind suggesting him kiss and touch you while you get off was that he would eventually decide to participate. I don't understand why he would be afraid of that. If he loves you he should be thrilled if that were the result. 

You may need to put the "challenge" back into the equation.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah so based on that and everything else...to me it just sounds like you are very HD and he is not really LD but much lower than you.


I agree. I'm using LD loosely, because 2 or 3 times a week is probably HD compared to some. But he is LD or "lower drive" than me, so I just call him LD.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> That sounds selfish to me. He's not prepared to have sex with you as frequently as you want yet is happy to have you bring him to orgasm which will only push back the next time he is ready to have sex with you. I'm afraid the more you let him get away with that the more he will.
> 
> My whole point behind suggesting him kiss and touch you while you get off was that he would eventually decide to participate. I don't understand why he would be afraid of that. If he loves you he should be thrilled if that were the result.
> 
> You may need to put the "challenge" back into the equation.


Yes. I always fight quickies and only oral for this reason. It's not that I don't like doing them because I do. But if he's the only one to O then I know it will be several more days until he is interested in any kind of physical touch again, and I just can't stand waiting that long. Now if he wants 69 or me to give him oral as foreplay I'm totally happy with that. 

I'm working on the challenge now. I've been more distant, I've stopped initiating. I've stopped talking about anything sexual, or talking much at all for that matter. If he initiates I tell him I don't know, I'm not really in the mood. Although my body is SCREAMING. 

But all this being distant is making me cranky, and I don't want to be a grouchy unfun wife. So there is a fine line, that I just can't figure out yet. 

I don't want to be distant from him, I just want a man who desires me and loves to be intimate with me. I'm hoping a few weeks of this will help him get the message. But I'm worried he'll just think I'm cold and a jerk.  We haven't talked a lot recently because you can tell their is an elephant in the room, and it's awkward tip toeing around it. It's hard for me to be chatty because I'm having to be careful what I say.

How do I be a challenge, without being a total jerk?


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I sympathize. I do agree it's a fine line. On one hand you want more sex but on the other you don't want to be taken for granted just because you do. 

I think on this issue like pretty much every issue in a marriage communication is critically important. I would even suggest telling him why you're behaving as you are now. Expose the elephant in the room. Let him know you feel like he's not as interested in sex with you now because there's not as much of a challenge as there once was so you're upping the challenge. That you desire him very much and you're trying to find a way make him desire you more to balance your respective needs.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thank you.

I'm not a good communicator. I like to hold my feelings inside. Probably partly from being an only child, and growing up in not such a great household. 

It it hard for me to express my feelings to him about issues like these. I always say the wrong thing, or don't get my point across.

Maybe I should write him a letter, so I can take the time to choose what to say, and so I can really think about what I want him to understand. 

Maybe a letter would also not put as much pressure on him, because he could take some time to respond. I just want to get to the bottom of our issues.


----------



## TCSRedhead

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

A letter would really be good. Write, rewrite and edit. Take any accusatory or inflammatory stuff out.

Have you guys tried counseling? What about doing a program like His Needs, Her Needs? Would he actively participate?


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

A letter seems like a good idea to me. You can even say in your letter the reason you're doing it that way is the issue is so important to you you want to make sure you express yourself as clearly as possible.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No counseling. I work with both of the local counselors. One is my boss. So that's a no go. 

Besides the fact that he would not go. To him there is no problem.

And who knows. Maybe there isn't a problem. Maybe I'm just expecting too much, and blowing it all way out of proportion. I just don't know anymore. 

I'll start working on a letter.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TCSRedhead said:


> A letter would really be good. Write, rewrite and edit. Take any accusatory or inflammatory stuff out.


I fully agree with this. 

I learned from reading the book "Dance of Anger" that you need to own your feelings. Don't say things like "you make me angry" or "you hurt my feelings" etc when you do X. Express it like "I feel angry" or "I feel hurt" when you do X. The difference appears subtle at first. 

The idea is you accept responsibility for how you respond to him. You're not making him resposible for your feelings. It's more likely to ellicit co-operation to resolve the issue than accusing him of something that would immediately put him on the defensive.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> and blowing it all way out of proportion.


...that's your end goal isn't it?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well this week I'm suppose to work every evening on top of my daily schedule. Husband was going to come to work with me during the evening, but we ended up getting invited to go to the movies so I managed to take off early and we went to that instead because it was a movie he really has been wanting to see. We didn't get home until late. 

He promised he will come to work with me on Wednesday and maybe Thursday so we can actually see each other a little this week. We'll see.

Tonight is my best friend's birthday, so I'm going out for dinner with her. Husband is hanging out with friends all evening. Usually when he does he doesn't get home until well after I'm asleep. So we'll see if he thinks about getting home in time for sex tonight, before my period starts tomorrow. :/

The thought of going at least 10 days without sex is rather depressing. How can he just forget? Maybe he'll remember and surprise me, and actually come home at a decent hour. I'm not going to hold my breath though.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I do have a question.

During period week I usually give him oral and hand jobs. 

I haven't been initiating. So should I initiate these things for him this week? Or should I just continue acting like I haven't even thought of it?

I don't want him to think that I'm withholding, and I don't want him to be able to use it against me later. His argument for only wanting quickies or oral is, "Well I only got 2 blow jobs during period week, so I'm still craving those." Or something similar.

So I'm confused. Should I go ahead and offer them, or should I just wait until he comes to me?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

  

Yesterday was horrible.

I went out to dinner with my best friend for her birthday, and then we went underwear shopping. I bought a thong because husband has said he'd like me to try one a few weeks ago.

So I came up with this master plan. I left a little early so I would get home at a reasonable time. Then I decided when he got home I'd just subtly flirt a little and greet him with a kiss and just "accidentally" let him get a glimpse of my new underwear.

So I got home at 9, calling him before hand to give him plenty of warning what time I'd be home.

I got home, showered, changed into a nice nightie and sat by the window to wait.... I waited... Finally at 9.30 he texts me and says he will be home around 10.  Okay. Whatever. I just watched tv waiting for him.

Well 10 comes and goes, and by this time I'm already upset and crying. Everything that's been going on has finally gotten to me.

He didn't pull in until *11 pm*. He comes in, turns off the light and crawls into bed to sleep. He happens to see my thong and he is like "hey, want to have a quickie." I said no, and he rolled over and fell asleep. I spent the next hour crying myself to sleep. I tossed and turned all night, I was so upset I was nauseous. I had horrible nightmares and finally at 5.30 I couldn't sleep anymore and I just laid in bed until it was time for work. 

He would really rather play video games at his friends house for 6 hours instead of coming home and spending one hour with his wife. He has been with those same friends *7 out of the last 8 evenings! *

It's been 4 days since sex, and now it will be another week. He doesn't seem to mind. I feel so undesired, and ugly, and self conscious. 

It wouldn't have bothered me if he got home a little late. He could have just texted me, "Hey. I'll be home around 10:30, be ready to get laid." Anything, that showed he was even remotely interested.

I'm so tired of trying so hard, and watching his every move, hoping that he will show me some affection. Every time I get my hopes up he just stomps on them. 

I noticed he takes advantage of me always wanting sex. He knows I'm always ready. So he never makes time for me, or does any effort to put me in the mood. He just goes out and has his fun, then when it's convenient he comes home and asks for sex. If I say no he's just like, "but your always horny." There is no flirting, no teasing, no romance. I'm just a way to relieve him. I feel like I'm intruding if I ask him to make time in his "busy schedule" for me, heaven forbid he doesn't get to see his friends every single day and he has to spend an evening with his wife. 

I am so hurt, and upset. I just want to curl up in bed and cry some more but I have to work a 12 hour day today. 

Now I am paranoid that maybe he is masturbating, and a lot. I think I'm going to get my courage up and ask him during his lunch break today. It's killing me to not know. If I find out he is masturbating, and he is depriving me. I feel like I could punch him in the face. And I'm not even a violent person.

Right now I'm disgusted. I refused his goodnight kiss last night and he was offended. Well tough noogies. It's not my fault that, that is our only kiss every day. And it's a crappy quick peck. I'm sick of being the pursuer. I'm done putting any effort in.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It certainly does appear from your description he is taking you for granted. While it's fun to spend time with friends I would expect to spend more of my free time with my wife then them. 

Can you hang out with him when he's with his friends? At least them you could urge him out the door when it's time to get home for some fun. 

Did you write him that letter yet?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> It certainly does appear from your description he is taking you for granted. While it's fun to spend time with friends I would expect to spend more of my free time with my wife then them.
> 
> Can you hang out with him when he's with his friends? At least them you could urge him out the door when it's time to get home for some fun.
> 
> Did you write him that letter yet?



I do hang out with them sometimes. But when I do go. If I say something about going home, he will literately just drive me home and drop me off and go back until he is ready to be done. He's done this on more than one occasion, and I am always ticked. We have already fought about this before. He says I'm being unfun and a party pooper, and that I should enjoy hanging out with some friends.

I haven't wrote the letter yet. 

I Did get my courage up and bluntly asked about the masturbation today. He told me he does do it during period week sometimes because he doesn't want to bother me. He promised he doesn't do it any other time and I believe him. He seemed genuinely sorry, and you could tell he felt bad about it. 

I told him that it hurts my feelings that I beg for sex often and get rejected, and he's taking care of himself. 

I told him it's okay to do it if he would just offer the chance to me first. But he said he doesn't like it, and that he is stopping and will make sure to always come to me. His choice. 

It was a good conversation. You could tell it was something he has felt bad about for a while, and he was glad to have it out in the open. I was nice and it went well.

Now I'm trying to decide if I should get everything else out in the open while I'm on a role, or if I should just forget about it and try starting over with a better outlook. 

I did realize something. He is a good guy. He loves me, and he doesn't do anything of this crap to hurt me. He's really just that oblivious and/or stupid. 

So should I write the letter, and give it to him today and get it over with. Or should I just change my sour attitude today and give him another chance?


----------



## TCSRedhead

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have the conversation in a way that you're opening up the discussion for you BOTH to discuss what you like, don't like, want, don't want from each other, not in a 'I want to pick you apart' kind of way. 

Be clear, descriptive. For instance, I would really like to have sex at least 3x/week. I would love to receive oral at lease x/week. Ask what he wants/expects.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Why not send him the link to this post and let him read it? It would give him a real glimpse into your psyche and how this is affecting you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TCSRedhead said:


> Have the conversation in a way that you're opening up the discussion for you BOTH to discuss what you like, don't like, want, don't want from each other, not in a 'I want to pick you apart' kind of way.
> 
> Be clear, descriptive. For instance, I would really like to have sex at least 3x/week. I would love to receive oral at lease x/week. Ask what he wants/expects.



I'm trying. Right now my letter is turning into a book.

I'm in no way trying to pick him apart, and I hope he doesn't think that. I just want him to know what upsets me. I'm sure there is lot of things I need to work on too. And he is more than welcome to share any things that I could do better. 

I hope I do this right, and not permanently hurt his ego or self esteem.  I'm scared.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Why not send him the link to this post and let him read it? It would give him a real glimpse into your psyche and how this is affecting you.


I'm not ready to let the cat out of the bag that I'm on this website yet. I feel like he would make me stay off, and I need this support and people to talk to. I'm trying to look back at my posts and see what I've been saying and using it to rewrite it in a format for him.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That is a great plan to pick some things from what you've posted here to help you write the letter with.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've finished the letter. It's 3 pages long, and I hope I included everything in such a way that gets my point across without sounding accusing. 

I hope I'm brave enough to give it to him tonight.

I talked about how I don't feel very desired. About all his time with his friends. About how much sex I'd like. I wrote completely about last night and how I felt. I put how I miss the snuggling and kissing. About how he makes comments about me smelling or tasting bad.And about how he views sex as a chore.

Pray for me that it goes well, and we can work out these issues before they eat my heart out.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I do hope for the best for you. I think in the long run more communication is always better than less. Very few of us intend to hurt our partners. More often it's something one person is oblivious to that bothers the other, doesn't get talked about and leads to irreparable resentment. I think you're doing the right thing by explaining your feelings to him.


----------



## chillymorn

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just crazy how adult people play so much video games.

who wants to be married to that.

if I were you would kick his a$$ to the curb and find a real man who values a real woman!


JMHO


I have friends who come home from work make a drink then play games online until the wee morning hours.

I just think get a fu*king life for crying out loud. you only have so much time on gods green earth why would you waste it playing games.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



chillymorn said:


> I just think get a fu*king life for crying out loud. you only have so much time on gods green earth why would you waste it playing games.


Maybe you should have written it as, "get a life fu*king for crying out loud, you only have so much time on gods green earth why would you waste it playing games?"


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't mind the video games. I enjoy them too, and it's better to be playing video games with his friends then out visiting the strip clubs. Besides the fact that he isn't addicted or anything. He works hard, and gets his jobs done first. Video games is usually just a little relaxing time before bed.

When they start interfering with our time, then I get mad. 

Last night didn't go as planned. I had the letter ready to give to him, and before I could he sat me down and said he knew something had been bothering me, and that he wanted to sit down and talk about it because we need to get better at communication. So it was him that decided to work things out.

We had a good conversation. I told him why I was upset about Tuesday, and his excuse was that "he didn't know if I'd want to have sex if he came home." WHAT? I always want to have sex. Especially if it's the only time in 10 days. *face palm*

We also talked about how it hurts my feelings when I'm always rejected, and he never initiates. He promised he will try not to reject me as often, and that he will try to initiate more. He also gave me some ideas about how to get him into the mood. But he still said that he doesn't want to do it more than 3 times a week. It's too hard for him to go that often. But he said maybe we can try it more often every once in a while. 

So I'm not sure if I'll get rejected any less, but at least he knows how upset it makes me.

Overall I didn't get to talk about everything on my letter. But I'm glad that we had the conversation. I think it was good for us. And after neither of us was mad when we finished, and we actually had a good make out session and some good oral for him. I felt better than I have in a long time. And he was very sorry. Although I'm not sure how long it will last before he seems to forget again.

Yesterday we tried boob sex but it wasn't working, and I gave him a hand job. I still find it so weird that he can't go every 24 hours. It takes a long time, and he says he doesn't feel much. Plus whatever comes out isn't very much, and it very thin and watery. 

I was hoping it would encourage him that we could do it two days in a row, but I think it had the opposite effect. Oh well.

I think he is more willing to snuggle with me and kiss on the in between days that we can't have sex. 

In other news, I'm so horny I feel like dying. Having some fun with him helped a little, but now It's just making me crave it more... Rawr


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's hard for me to imagine a 20 something guy turning down the opportunity for daily sex. 

I'm wondering if the fact you're so willing to take care of him with hand jobs or blow jobs with absolutely no reciprocation on his part hasn't made him lazy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think that is part of it. But then again, I had to do some coaxing to even let me give him a hand job yesterday. So I think he really just doesn't enjoy it as much every day. 

I think I just came up with a great way for him to show he's going to try for me though. Tomorrow I'm going to ask if I can put a tampon in and go at it. Of course we can't do PIV, but I see no reason why I still couldn't orgasm. I don't know why I didn't think of this before. It's a revelation. lol. He can still have his too, so I don't see a good reason why he could turn me down. 

Periods may be forever changed.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Really struggling with self worth and feeling unloved.

My suggestion was met with an absolutely not. 

He said period week is his week to be lazy, and it be all about him. I'm starting to wonder when it's not all about him.

He has NEVER went more than 3 or 4 days without relief from me, and yet he admitted to masturbating sometimes in between. I'm on day 8 and yet he is acting like my needs are no big deal.

He acts like I'm being unreasonable, and he knows exactly why I'm upset. But he hasn't said anything nice or comforting, and even sorry.

He is mostly avoiding/ignoring me and we aren't speaking more than a few words.

My lifelong pet is sick right now.

My mother is upset and isn't speaking to me because I can't go on a trip with her for my birthday.

My birthday is Thursday, and I just don't want to deal with it.

I'm so upset and tired. I'm to the point where I am physically sick over it. I'm nauseous, can't sleep, I'm not eating. 

When and if he ever offers to take care of my needs again, I really feel like i don't want him to. He's made it perfectly clear over and over, that he is too lazy, doesn't care, and doesn't like it. 

I don't think I want him touching me again. I don't want to inconvenience or bother him. Heaven forbid he has to take 20 minutes out of his time. 

I seriously considering taking care of myself from now on. That way he won't have to put the effort in, and I won't have to beg and feel like a burden.

Just so frustrated, he says I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Am I?


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Really struggling with self worth and feeling unloved.


You won't have any problems with self worth and self love, once you lovve yoruself and release yourself from positions which you know in your heart are taking advantage of you...



TheCuriousWife said:


> My suggestion was met with an absolutely not.
> 
> He said period week is his week to be lazy, and it be all about him. I'm starting to wonder when it's not all about him.
> 
> He has NEVER went more than 3 or 4 days without relief from me, and yet he admitted to masturbating sometimes in between. I'm on day 8 and yet he is acting like my needs are no big deal.
> 
> He acts like I'm being unreasonable, and he knows exactly why I'm upset. But he hasn't said anything nice or comforting, and even sorry.
> 
> He is mostly avoiding/ignoring me and we aren't speaking more than a few words.
> 
> My lifelong pet is sick right now.
> 
> My mother is upset and isn't speaking to me because I can't go on a trip with her for my birthday.
> 
> My birthday is Thursday, and I just don't want to deal with it.
> 
> I'm so upset and tired. I'm to the point where I am physically sick over it. I'm nauseous, can't sleep, I'm not eating.
> 
> When and if he ever offers to take care of my needs again, I really feel like i don't want him to. He's made it perfectly clear over and over, that he is too lazy, doesn't care, and doesn't like it.
> 
> I don't think I want him touching me again. I don't want to inconvenience or bother him. Heaven forbid he has to take 20 minutes out of his time.


Understood. Let him go...



TheCuriousWife said:


> I seriously considering taking care of myself from now on. That way he won't have to put the effort in, and I won't have to beg and feel like a burden.
> 
> Just so frustrated, he says I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Am I?


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Your husband doesn't appreciate what he has in you. Many men would kill for a wife that wants regular sex.

I'm afraid he needs to face the possibility of losing you before he'll really take stock. If at that stage he still disregards your concerns you'll know you'll never be his priority. My hope is that when he is in this position he'll finally "get it" and turn things around.

Best of luck!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I gave in. Yeah that didn't last long, I know. I'm disappointed in myself too.

He begged for sex today. I said no and offered a hand job or a blow job. He said he wanted the real thing. He knew exactly why my mood has been sad for days and I guess he couldn't take it anymore.

I was good at saying no. Then I agreed on a quickie. I wouldn't let him touch me, but then he insisted. I tried really hard, but he wouldn't give up and in the end it felt too darn good to resist for too long.

It has for sure uplifted my mood. Now I'm battling with myself if I should just forget about everything that made me upset, or if I should stick to my guns. It's so hard to think clearly when hormones are involved. 

I think I'll just go back to not initiating, and continue trying to seem uninterested and see how things flow. It really bothered him today when I turned him down. I think it got his attention. But who knows with him. 

I'm so confused.


----------



## biola

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

For seven pages,we have seen you flounder with regards to standing up for yourself.You had better make a decision now,for the future of your lovelife depends on it.In a perfect world it wouldn't be so,but its not a perfect world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes I know. This has been an ongoing problem for a while now. And nothing is really changed. 

But this isn't just a thread about advice, it's for me to keep track of whats going on. So sometime in the future I can look back and see how far I've come, or what mistakes I've made. Plus I want others to be able to read my story.

It makes me feel better to rant and tell someone what is going on because I have no one in "real life" to share with.

This isn't a perfect world, and I don't have a perfect solution. So I'll just keep trying. You don't have to watch me founder, but it sure makes me feel better to get it out there.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OP, I'm guessing you are around 22 - 24 years old. I'm sorry that I cannot relate to what your husband is doing because at that age I wanted to have sex multiple times a day. I'm almost 40 years old and I can still go more than once in a day (2 to 4 times). My wife and I only have sex 3 - 4 times a week. I'm content with that level of sex because it's the rate we naturally stumbled upon over the years. But if I had my way I would want it more, so I augment my time away thru masturbation. 

My guess is that he is having issues with his T levels. He should get checked out at the doctors. But an alternative theory is that he may have a porn/masturbation addiction that you are not aware of. If his ejaculate is rather small in quantity, then I'm suspecting that he's relieving himself when you are not around. I strongly suspect he has porn somewhere at the house, or he and his friends may be using porn when they' re out and he uses his imagination to masturbate later. 

Sorry to see you here - especially since you are so young.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No porn. Our house is getting remodeled, and we practically have only the bedroom with stuff and furniture in it. I could tell you everything in there, and there is no porn hidden.

His friends are not the type of people to use porn either. I'm 100 % sure there is no porn. He only masturbates like once per month or less. 

Ejaculate is normal in quantity. 

Low T is a strong possibility. But he has refused any of my ideas of going to get tested, or take any supplements. Sigh.

It's hard to help a man who won't help himself, or even admit there might be a problem.

But in other news we are getting along well again. The no sex for a week had really clouded my mood. It's amazing how sour I get so fast. We're back at square one. I'm going to work on me and see if it makes any difference.

I'm going to try to not pressure him into sex, or initiate, but just be more flirty, and try to get him in the mood subtly. Maybe if I can get the gears spinning a little, it will just fall into place.

Tonight we finally have an evening together. Here's to hoping for some intimate time.... It's so hard not to get my hopes up.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree with Plan 9 and I think I mentioned the porn a few pages back. What about his phone? Does he have internet on his phone? Does he own a lap top? 

I would also cut out the in-between sex BJs and HJs completely.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

To me, I don't hear anything "wrong" with him. He is just lower D than you.

If you stay with him, over the long haul you will likely learn ways to manage your sexual frustration better, and that will help the sitch a lot.


----------



## malmale

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Really struggling with self worth and feeling unloved.
> 
> He has NEVER went more than 3 or 4 days without relief from me, and yet he admitted to masturbating sometimes in between.


can you try to ask him about his fantasies when he masturbates?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I agree with Plan 9 and I think I mentioned the porn a few pages back. What about his phone? Does he have internet on his phone? Does he own a lap top?
> 
> I would also cut out the in-between sex BJs and HJs completely.



You need to read a few pages back.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> To me, I don't hear anything "wrong" with him. He is just lower D than you.
> 
> If you stay with him, over the long haul you will likely learn ways to manage your sexual frustration better, and that will help the sitch a lot.


This is what I suspect too. He isn't a bad lover, he just isn't as in to it as me. I think in the end it will just have to be me getting over it, or my drive getting lowered.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Last night I was cooking dinner and he was all over me. It was great! I haven't been flirted with or teased like that since longer than I can remember. I was so excited.

Then he turned my food on low and pulled me to the bedroom.

But much to my dismay he only wanted a quickie. 

I obliged because I didn't want to ruin his mood since he was the one that initiated. But the entire ordeal lasted less than 5 minutes and left me feeling even more horny.

After he is like "wow. You were really into it. You must have been really horny, and it must have felt really good."

:slap:

Then why did he stop 30 seconds after he started foreplay, when he knew it felt good for me?


I really like quickies if we've done it the day before. But if we haven't had sex in at least 2 days, and it will be more than 2 days before we have it again. I'm already clawing at the walls, and it just seems like cruel punishment. It gets my motor running then it's like, oh guess kidding. 

He just doesn't seem to grasp that I can barely stand going 2 or 3 days let alone 4 or more. Since he is the guy he thinks only his orgasm is important?

I asked him why I have never orgasmed and he didn't. Or why he never tries to pleasure me when he's not in the mood, like I do him. And I got the same old answer. Mine are too much work and take too long. He said if I can figure out how to orgasm in less than 5 minutes he'd think about it, but it's not his fault that he can go quickly. 

It's not like we didn't have the entire evening to ourselves to take as long as we want...

Well poop.

Hopefully this gives him a little ego boost and he starts initiating more, and takes into consideration my feelings too.

In the past two weeks we've had real sex only once. And that was the day I was upset, and he only did it so I'd stop being a grouch. 

At least tomorrow is my birthday, and I KNOW I will finally get some, hopefully good quality sex.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He is a selfish, lazy and inconsiderate lover.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thursday he works until 5. Then we have the evening alone. Which I hope to take full advantage of.

Friday he is going straight from work to baseball, then to a friends house for his birthday and he is staying the night. So I am having some girl friends come over.

Saturday he will be back in the morning, and that's when we are actually celebrating my birthday. We are going on our first double date. Which is sad since we've been together going on 6 years. But his best friend finally has a steady girlfriend, so yipee. We are going to the mall, and out to eat at red lobster, and maybe to a movie.

Anyway. I was hoping on getting some more sex in when he gets home Saturday morning before we go out. But he said his friend is coming home with him, so there goes my sex then too. A girl just can't win.

Karole I'm thinking in the near future when I'm either giving him a blow job or PIV that just when he is about over the edge I will just stop and say, "Okay. Your 5 minutes is up. Sorry it's taking too long." 

He seems to have no problem doing it to me. I wonder how he would take it? Is that horribly mean for me to do, or will it get my point across? I really don't like being a mean person, but words don't seem to get anywhere with him.


----------



## PBear

karole said:


> He is a selfish, lazy and inconsiderate lover.


+1 on this. It's not that he's particularly LD... It's that HIS needs are getting met with quickies and HJ's/BJ's, and to heck with your needs. That part isn't a lower drive issue, it's a selfishness issue. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am really starting to see the selfishness. 

But when I bring it up about him maybe being selfish he just says I'm selfish for always wanting an orgasm. 

Then it makes me wonder. Am I being selfish? Should I just take what I'm getting and be happy with it? I just don't know if maybe I am being selfish by wanting him to give me an orgasm every couple days. It does take 20 minutes sometimes.

Of course then I think. If he asked me for one every couple days, which he does. I would happily oblige. So I'm confused.

I hate to stop giving him HJs BJs and quickies. Because then it makes me the bad person. I don't want him to feel the way I do. I just want him to be a little more considerate.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am really starting to see the selfishness.
> 
> But when I bring it up about him maybe being selfish he just says I'm selfish for always wanting an orgasm.
> 
> Then it makes me wonder. Am I being selfish? Should I just take what I'm getting and be happy with it? I just don't know if maybe I am being selfish by wanting him to give me an orgasm every couple days. It does take 20 minutes sometimes.
> 
> Of course then I think. If he asked me for one every couple days, which he does. I would happily oblige. So I'm confused.
> 
> I hate to stop giving him HJs BJs and quickies. Because then it makes me the bad person. I don't want him to feel the way I do. I just want him to be a little more considerate.


Well you know it's not being a bad person.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thursday he works until 5. Then we have the evening alone. Which I hope to take full advantage of.
> 
> Friday he is going straight from work to baseball, then to a friends house for his birthday and he is staying the night. So I am having some girl friends come over.
> 
> Saturday he will be back in the morning, and that's when we are actually celebrating my birthday. We are going on our first double date. Which is sad since we've been together going on 6 years. But his best friend finally has a steady girlfriend, so yipee. We are going to the mall, and out to eat at red lobster, and maybe to a movie.
> 
> Anyway. I was hoping on getting some more sex in when he gets home Saturday morning before we go out. But he said his friend is coming home with him, so there goes my sex then too. A girl just can't win.
> 
> *Karole I'm thinking in the near future when I'm either giving him a blow job or PIV that just when he is about over the edge I will just stop and say, "Okay. Your 5 minutes is up. Sorry it's taking too long."
> *
> He seems to have no problem doing it to me. I wonder how he would take it? Is that horribly mean for me to do, or will it get my point across? I really don't like being a mean person, but words don't seem to get anywhere with him.


This is exactly what I would do. "What is good for the goose is good for the gander."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> This is exactly what I would do. "What is good for the goose is good for the gander."


I think I'll give it a try and see what happens. 

Not until after my birthday though. I don't want to open that can of worms on my one day I'm promised sex.


----------



## PBear

TheCuriousWife said:


> I am really starting to see the selfishness.
> 
> But when I bring it up about him maybe being selfish he just says I'm selfish for always wanting an orgasm.
> 
> Then it makes me wonder. Am I being selfish? Should I just take what I'm getting and be happy with it? I just don't know if maybe I am being selfish by wanting him to give me an orgasm every couple days. It does take 20 minutes sometimes.
> 
> Of course then I think. If he asked me for one every couple days, which he does. I would happily oblige. So I'm confused.
> 
> I hate to stop giving him HJs BJs and quickies. Because then it makes me the bad person. I don't want him to feel the way I do. I just want him to be a little more considerate.


When's the last time YOU had an orgasm and he didn't? Uh huh... Thought so. Who's the selfish one now?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PBear said:


> When's the last time YOU had an orgasm and he didn't? Uh huh... Thought so. Who's the selfish one now?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I see your point.

But HE says that it's not the same because mine take 4 times longer. 

So he still doesn't see it as selfish.


----------



## PBear

TheCuriousWife said:


> I see your point.
> 
> But HE says that it's not the same because mine take 4 times longer.
> 
> So he still doesn't see it as selfish.


That's because he's a selfish lover. Sorry, but that's the situation. 20 minutes out of his schedule 3x a week won't kill him. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ok..if we try to follow his logic (which I don't agree with anyhow) you take four times as long to orgasm as he does. So if you spent equal amounts of time pleasuring each other then you would end up having one orgasm for every four of his. 

Are you at least achieving that ratio?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PBear said:


> That's because he's a selfish lover. Sorry, but that's the situation. 20 minutes out of his schedule 3x a week won't kill him.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I totally agree.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> Ok..if we try to follow his logic (which I don't agree with anyhow) you take four times as long to orgasm as he does. So if you spent equal amounts of time pleasuring each other then you would end up having one orgasm for every four of his.
> 
> Are you at least achieving that ratio?


Yes. I'd say I probably get about 7 orgasms a month average.

He gets about 12 or more. 

So I'm about half or a little over half.

So in his eyes, he's being more than gracious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But then again. His logic is messed up. Because it's not like he gets nothing out of mine. The entire time he is stimulating me I am either rubbing him as well, or doing oral on him.

I don't just lay there like a dead fish.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



chillymorn said:


> Just crazy how adult people play so much video games.
> 
> who wants to be married to that.


Let's not get carried away here. Video games compared to endless golf, drinking in the bar, the futile effort to restore an old car, or what.

While my wife worked her way thru the bottom rungs of the corporate ladder I raised our two daughters nearly alone, did every piano / gym / sport / PTA meeting / playground / school performance / teacher night / college application / drivers Ed / etc imaginable, landscaped a mansion sized home better than the pros, worked full time, and had plenty of time for my wife when her schedule allowed. 

Also put up with wife's BPD, helped her stay sane thru some rather unfortunate events, endured endless visits from overseas relatives, and helped her with several job searches as she played career merry go round.

I am also an avid video gamer as are my girls.

Right, who wants to get married to THAT!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious...you don't give yourself O's without him?


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree wholeheartedly that his logic is messed up. To me when you love someone making them feel good makes you feel good. 

I know for myself nothing turns me on more than my partner being turned on. Reading many of the threads here there a lots of men out there who feel the same way. 

My partner too takes a long time to orgasm. There are times when she will tell me it's not going to happen for her so I can just go ahead. I would never take it upon myself to make that call. I go into to assuming I am going to make her orgasm. Fortunately for me it's one of my all time favourite things to do.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious...you don't give yourself O's without him?


No I don't. They aren't the same, and I always felt that was something you did together, not alone. Just how I feel. As I've stated before it's not just the orgasm that I'm lacking, it's the closeness and intimacy. If I just wanted the orgasm I'd do it myself and avoid all this heart ache.

The past few weeks the temptation has been there, and I've been seriously considering it. But the couple times I decided to go ahead I got interrupted, or was running late. 

Plus I had the masturbation talk with him last week and he felt really guilty about it and upset. So I didn't want to stir the pot by starting to do it myself when I could see it's something he doesn't like. 

But the temptation is still there. I'm about to come out and ask him if he'd rather I just take care of myself and leave him alone. Several times I had to hold back from blurting that out when we are debating about sexual needs.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> I agree wholeheartedly that his logic is messed up. To me when you love someone making them feel good makes you feel good.
> 
> I know for myself nothing turns me on more than my partner being turned on. Reading many of the threads here there a lots of men out there who feel the same way.
> 
> My partner too takes a long time to orgasm. There are times when she will tell me it's not going to happen for her so I can just go ahead. I would never take it upon myself to make that call. I go into to assuming I am going to make her orgasm. Fortunately for me it's one of my all time favourite things to do.


I don't feel I take that long. A lot shorter of a time than many of the stories on here.

But yes. I don't understand why he doesn't like it either. When I have sex with him I always go in assuming he will have an orgasm. I would never just decide I don't feel like doing it today, or tell him that it's too much work.

And yes. On the rare occasion that I don't feel like it will happen I tell him, and it's no big deal. I'm not upset at all because I made that choice.

I wish it was one of his favorite things. I'm pretty sure it doesn't even make the list, although he would say differently. Actions speak a lot louder than words.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious....you should have another MB discussion with your husband. Most likely, he is going to tell you he has no problem with you MBing by yourself, and in your case, I think you should take him up on it and take care of your own needs.

He is not likely to ever be able to give you enough sexual fulfillment, so taking matters into your own hands is what you will likely have to do to manage your sexual frustration.


----------



## eyuop

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What age range is the OP and husband... I haven't found it in the thread.
I'm just curious. I'm wondering if this is making a difference or not.


----------



## PBear

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't know if this is relevant or not... But my SO knows that I much prefer that she has an orgasm, even if we only have time for a quickie. So she'll often grab her small bullet vibrator and use that during PIV. She can usually get her's in about the same time as me. Win-win! If I didn't fear her biting body parts off, I'd also suggest it while she gives me a BJ. But I fear her focus disappears when she climaxes... 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Last night I was cooking dinner and he was all over me. It was great! I haven't been flirted with or teased like that since longer than I can remember. I was so excited.
> 
> Then he turned my food on low and pulled me to the bedroom.
> 
> But much to my dismay he only wanted a quickie.
> 
> I obliged because I didn't want to ruin his mood since he was the one that initiated. But the entire ordeal lasted less than 5 minutes and left me feeling even more horny.
> 
> After he is like "wow. You were really into it. You must have been really horny, and it must have felt really good."
> 
> :slap:
> 
> Then why did he stop 30 seconds after he started foreplay, when he knew it felt good for me?
> 
> 
> I really like quickies if we've done it the day before. But if we haven't had sex in at least 2 days, and it will be more than 2 days before we have it again. I'm already clawing at the walls, and it just seems like cruel punishment. It gets my motor running then it's like, oh guess kidding.
> 
> He just doesn't seem to grasp that I can barely stand going 2 or 3 days let alone 4 or more. Since he is the guy he thinks only his orgasm is important?
> 
> I asked him why I have never orgasmed and he didn't. Or why he never tries to pleasure me when he's not in the mood, like I do him. And I got the same old answer. *Mine are too much work and take too long. He said if I can figure out how to orgasm in less than 5 minutes he'd think about it, but it's not his fault that he can go quickly. *
> 
> It's not like we didn't have the entire evening to ourselves to take as long as we want...
> 
> Well poop.
> 
> Hopefully this gives him a little ego boost and he starts initiating more, and takes into consideration my feelings too.
> 
> In the past two weeks we've had real sex only once. And that was the day I was upset, and he only did it so I'd stop being a grouch.
> 
> At least tomorrow is my birthday, and I KNOW I will finally get some, hopefully good quality sex.


It's not like I've been with a ton of women, but I have have always been able to get a woman to orgasm in 5 min or less. I'm not including foreplay, but if I did I'd say 10 to 15 min tops. I don't get it TBH, because for a man the best part about sex is seeing how much pleasure your wife/GF is feeling. When she feels good, she gets more enthusiastic and wants you more and this fantastic positive feedback loop develops. 

No offense OP, but this situation is fvcked up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We don't have any vibrators yet. We're not sure how we feel about them, because we're worried it would desensitize me or make it harder for him to do it alone. But that may be something I bring up.

We are in our early 20s.

Plan 9, that's what I always thought too. I agree.

Birthday was good. Birthday sex was so so. Sadly it was one of those days were I just wasn't as aroused, and it was more sensitive and ouchy rather than feeling good. That usually happens the first week after period. My mind was there but my body wasn't cooperating. He was a trooper though and was very nice. So it's all on me.

He was very sweet. He wrote me a mushy love letter, and even slept naked the last two days.  We spooned most of last night, and usually we don't even touch in our sleep.

I won't see him at all today, but thankfully I found out his friend has to work tomorrow, so he won't be coming home with him after all. So maybe we'll have a little alone time on Saturday.

Tonight it's girl time for me


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Not much new to report. I had a good time Saturday on our date. Again sex was so so. He said he couldn't feel much, and we both took a long time, not much passion. 

My drive is significantly lower right now. I don't know if it's the time of month, or It's just a natural reaction of rejection and I'm trying to keep myself sane. I just kind of have a "whatever" feeling right now to it. When we do have sex I'm not nearly as excited or into it, and honestly it doesn't feel all that great, I really have to work for my orgasms and the only reason I even have them is so I don't upset him, because he knows I usually can't go a week or more without.

I gave him a blow job on Sunday. It's funny how he can have a blow job the day after sex, but he can't have sex twice in a row. :scratchhead:

Getting flirty or frisky doesn't seem to work with him. If I do anything intimate I get shut down. Last night I wasn't even initiating sex or anything, I just wanted fondle him a little while we were in bed. I enjoy it, and it makes me not get so upset when we go several days. As usual he pulled my hand away and said something along the lines of it tickles, or that's his private area and I shouldn't be touching. And he turned over so I couldn't reach. It's not like I'm all grabbing or being overtly sexual. But he often is scratching or fondling things down there, so I figure he wouldn't mind if I do it.When we are watching a movie or something I like to touch him. But he always makes a big deal out of it, and tells me to knock it off.

I can't remember the last time we had sex and we both had real fun, or the last time it left us smiling and panting. 

I still miss kissing and holding hands. We can never seem to get on the same page with that. I miss the old days when it was romance, and flirting, and being "love sick."

It's a weird feeling. I kind of hope he initiates tonight. But at the same time I don't know that I really care either way. I don't really feel excited about it, and that's hard for me to comprehend. I feel like if we do have sex, it will just be mechanical as it has been for the last couple weeks. I want to be put in the mood.

Right now things aren't going badly, but they aren't great either. Just at a stalemate.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yesterday was incredible!! :smthumbup:

It was the longest sexual encounter we have ever had. We both had a blast too.

It started with a make out session, then we cooked dinner in the nude, and he got some oral.

Then after dinner we had some fun with chocolate syrup.

The funniest part was that we covered our bed in a tarp, and greased each other up with about a quart of baby lotion. Then we gave massages, and had fun slip and sliding on each other. 

I'd recommend this is any couple! It was so hilarious, we were cracking up the entire time.

Then we took a shower together and scrubbed one another off. Then we went back and had the actual sex. 

It was great.  Husband was actually pursuing and flirting with me. No begging on my part, it was all his idea. 

I had the weirdest orgasm though. I was so turned on by the time he actually started touching me that it was like my orgasm didn't have enough time to build up. So I didn't have a build and release. It just seems like a had a very very long mini orgasm. It felt great, but it didn't have the big finish. It was strange. I wasn't even sure I had one, but I got sensitive after a while so I'm guessing I did. Oh well. No complaints here. 

It lasted over an hour, and actually 2 hours if you count the stuff before dinner. I'm a happy camper.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've realized something. All along I've been focusing on the negative of our sex life. But if you look at it the other way around we are having sex 2 or 3 times a week. Which many would consider great.

I'm not sure what has happened but my sex drive has taken a huge dive. I still think about it, but I don't molest him when he walks in the door, and I don't feel like bawling my eyes out when he tells me no.

I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing. But it sure making things easier.

I've backed way off, I don't initiate. If he offers then great, if not then I'll get over it. 

I think I've just come to accept that I won't be able to ever have evening and morning sex, or even two days in a row. I know he just isn't like me, and he probably won't ever think about or want sex as much as me. 

Me getting all worked up and upset about it wasn't helping anything, it was just hurting me. So I've taken the cooled off approach and I feel a lot better. 

That's my stance today. That's not to say it won't change tomorrow. 

A part of me is a little sad. I honestly don't know what happened to sex crazed me. I think that part of me got squashed too many times and finally took the hint that it wasn't wanted. 

We'll see if my change is a good thing or a bad thing over time I guess.


----------



## john_lord_b3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *I've realized something. All along I've been focusing on the negative of our sex life. But if you look at it the other way around we are having sex 2 or 3 times a week. Which many would consider great.*
> 
> I'm not sure what has happened but my sex drive has taken a huge dive. I still think about it, but I don't molest him when he walks in the door, and I don't feel like bawling my eyes out when he tells me no.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing. But it sure making things easier.
> 
> I've backed way off, I don't initiate. If he offers then great, if not then I'll get over it.
> 
> I think I've just come to accept that I won't be able to ever have evening and morning sex, or even two days in a row. I know he just isn't like me, and he probably won't ever think about or want sex as much as me.
> 
> Me getting all worked up and upset about it wasn't helping anything, it was just hurting me. So I've taken the cooled off approach and I feel a lot better.
> 
> That's my stance today. That's not to say it won't change tomorrow.
> 
> A part of me is a little sad. I honestly don't know what happened to sex crazed me. I think that part of me got squashed too many times and finally took the hint that it wasn't wanted.
> 
> We'll see if my change is a good thing or a bad thing over time I guess.


:smthumbup:

Mrs. OP,

It's a good thing you have good sex 2 to 3 times a week, and it's even better that now you realize that it's a good thing.. many others are not so lucky. I sincerely hope you and your husband would somehow resolve the incompatible drive problem in the future.

I am certain that Lord God created us all equally, but each individual are unique on their own. 

Many men would _say_ that they'd love to have sex daily, especially in public, but maybe a percentage of them are just bragging. 

As for me, I think having sex 3 to 5 times a month at weekends is already very ideal, more is not really necessary, but that's me. Apparently my wife's drive is a little higher than me, and I have learned that sex is also a need for women. So, if she asks, I will not reject especially if no physical or logistical reason not to have sex. So, our life is good because we are somewhat compatible. I hope you will too eventually.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks. 

Since I've stopped initiating and backed off husband has been initiating every couple' days. So that's great. I'm okay with this frequency if he's happy. 

We do need to work on quality a little more. Many of our sexual encounters are more routine and mechanical. I don't know if it's the norm or what. But it's hard for me to get turned on when we kiss for a few minutes then we lay quietly while he rubs me with his eyes closed until I orgasm then he thrusts a few times and it's over. 

I couldn't orgasm last night because I felt like a bore. He doesn't say anything and he prefers to just concentrate when he is rubbing me. I couldn't get there, and he didn't even have a slight erection when we decided to switch to "his turn." That's a bit of an ego killer. Then he had trouble finding a spot that felt good, and I was worried we wouldn't be able to finish him either.

I want dirty talking, and feeling each other up, and romping around. He'd rather just get down to business, and it doesn't feel very sexual. Sometimes it's even awkward to start sex because we both want to do it, but we are just sitting in bed naked and it's hard to work ourselves up to it when we are both just sitting there looking at each other like, "Okay. lets get this started." 

Lately i've been trying to fantasize about my husband while I'm having sex with my husband. I know that can't be good. 

He also likes to rub too hard because he thinks it goes quicker. Every time we have sex I'm sore afterwards and then when we have sex the next time it hurts even worse and it makes it harder to enjoy. So I try to tell him to be gentle, or rub in circles. But often times I feel like I'm nagging him, and I don't want that. 

What is a better way to instruct him?


----------



## john_lord_b3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I see.. from the way you describe it, seems like your sexual encounter is more like "orgasm hunting" than actually getting some "good quality time" enjoying each other's naked body. 

Have you two ever tried to get naked together, then watch a good romantic film together _before_ making love?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john_lord_b3 said:


> I see.. from the way you describe it, seems like your sexual encounter is more like "orgasm hunting" than actually getting some "good quality time" enjoying each other's naked body.
> 
> Have you two ever tried to get naked together, then watch a good romantic film together _before_ making love?


That's exactly how it is.

There is no flirting, or teasing, or any romantic mushy stuff before. Nothing leading up to it. We do our own thing, then one of us initiates and we have sex, then it's right back to doing whatever we were doing. 

We don't kiss most of the time except when we are having sex. I get a peck before bed, and a peck when he leaves for work. 

I've asked for naked snuggle time. He's just not into it. I ask him occasionally if he will sleep naked with me, and I always get a no. 

I just don't get it. :scratchhead: I'm missing all the romantic lovey stuff. We don't hold hands when we are on dates, or anywhere. If I do grab his hand he is just lets me but doesn't "hold" it back. But it only lasts maybe a minute before we let go. 

I think a large part of the reason I was so sex crazed is because I'm lacking the other intimacy. 

I know part of it is my fault. I should have made romance and intimacy a bigger part of our relationship years ago. But it was never this bad. It wasn't until we were married that it has dropped off nearly completely. 

What can I do?


----------



## john_lord_b3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That's exactly how it is.


so sorry to hear that 



> There is no flirting, or teasing, or any romantic mushy stuff before. Nothing leading up to it. We do our own thing, then one of us initiates and we have sex, then it's right back to doing whatever we were doing....I just don't get it. :scratchhead: I'm missing all the romantic lovey stuff. We don't hold hands when we are on dates, or anywhere. If I do grab his hand he is just lets me but doesn't "hold" it back. But it only lasts maybe a minute before we let go.
> 
> I think a large part of the reason I was so sex crazed is because I'm lacking the other intimacy. ..


I see... maybe your husband is like a younger version of me. I used to have this belief it's a man's duty to provide for his family, and thus the value of a man is in his work and his ability to provide. Having frequent sex is like a waste of time, why fooling around and make more babies if the time could be used for work? (not that I am making excuses, but that was my line of thinking). Thus after my marriage I threw myself to my work and organization, under that mistaken assumption that the better I do at work, the happier my wife would be. 

I was wrong. Work yes, important, but so is intimacy between husband and wife, of which sex is part of. If there are no intimacy, it's not a true marriage but merely a legal partnership for the purpose of having children who will inherit the wealth of the clan. 

These days, we are in much better position.. due to my wife finally voiced her feelings that she needs to be desired for her sexuality, not just as a mother of my son. The way she explained to me and her gestures at that time got through my head and I understood. That's how I changed from "Sex is only for make babies, and for novelty" into "something to do regularly, at least 3 times a month, for enjoyment between husband and wife". 

I am still somewhat like your husband.. I rarely initiates (but never reject). But when I am making love with my wife, I try my best to make her enjoy the experience. I totally don't understand the "hunting for orgasm" thing, where is the enjoyment in that? Sex is something to be enjoyed not rushed.

That's why we turn to scheduled weekend sex. At least both of us know that sex are to be expected at weekends, so we prepare ourselves mentally in advance. I know this killed the spontaneity and making sex too predictable, but we think it's good to have several days of preparations, so that the 1 to 2 hours together are very enjoyable.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well things have been going pretty good for the most part. My changed attitude is really helping. And he is being more adventurous and initiating. 

Still feeling like a bore sometimes.

Last night sex was kind of "expected" since we haven't done it since Saturday, and today starts cranky time.

Got home late. And it automatically went to me laying down and him rubbing me with no noise, or kissing or anything exciting or passionate. I hate it just being a duty. I want it to be fun, spontaneous, different...

Long story short it was taking forever because it's hard to warm up an engine when there is nothing going on, and no passion and I'm trying to hurry up and get it over with for his sake.

Couldn't orgasm. Which makes me loose. He wasn't turned on. Couldn't feel anything, had to try several positions, had lots of trouble before he could finally and barely finish. *sigh* Same old problem. 

Stupid cranky time. I know it's the hormones that are making me temperamental today. I always dread this week. I've been in such a good place with sex recently, and now I'm all doom and gloom again. Hopefully it goes away quickly.

I am now working or going to class evenings Sunday - Wednesday on top of my daily job. So I don't see husband at all or have any time for anything 4 days a week now. :/ I literately get like a 30 minute break inbetween. This is going to suck for the next 6 months.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well yesterday was a game changer.

Usually during period week I start off sick and uninterested in sex. Then about half way through I get crazy horny. Then towards the end I'm still interested but I'm like oversensitive and it's very hard to orgasm.

Well yesterday was half way through, and I was practically climbing up the walls. 

We had sex on Wednesday, with no orgasm for me. Since then husband has had 2 blow jobs, a hand job, and boobie sex. That's right folks, *he's had an orgasm 5 days in a row.*

It makes me happy, because I'm glad he realizes it can happen. But part of me is jealous and upset. 

His entire argument why we can only have sex 3 times a week is because it's "impossible" for him to orgasm two days in a row.

Somehow "magically" he's on day 5 already. We haven't had sex even two days in a row for at least 6 months now. So I had a little resentment building.

Well yesterday I was so horny. I asked, he said no. Shamefully I begged.  He again said no. Saying it never works out because I'm too loose and sensitive, and it's hard for both of us to orgasm. So I volunteered the tampon idea, and told him I'd give him a blow job if he'd give me manual. 

No dice. I let it go, and within a few minutes he was crawling over to me and being all kissy. We made out for a while, and I was thinking he changed his mind. But I was cautious. It's hard to let yourself get all worked up, then he walk away and leave me hanging. And a little voice in the back of my head notices that he only really makes out with me when he's trying to seduce me into giving him a blow job. 

Well as you would know, 5 minutes later he asks for a blow job. I give him one without a word, then I lay in bed until he left to go visit friends. 

I couldn't take it anymore. The minute he left I went and took care of myself in the shower.

It wasn't the same. It took less than a minute or two. I didn't make a peep. And it lacked every thing I love about sex. But it gave me that release of tension, and I'm able to focus on work now, and my mood is a lot better. 

It was more like a basic need. Like feeding yourself when your hungry, than anything sexual. 

I thought I would feel guilty. But really I don't. 

I do feel a little hypocritical. Because I asked him not to masturbate unless he asks me first. 

But I'm not cheating him out of anything. I beg, and he tells me no. Why should I suffer, and leave it up to him. I never deny him unless there really is a good reason for it. But I never just don't feel up to it. Even if it's just a blow job or a hand job for him, I always care about his needs.

I've had enough of him dismissing my needs like they aren't as important. Now I know I have some independence. I'm confident that at least if he turns me down I won't have to keep waiting on him until he feels he is ready. No more silently suffering. 

It's not going to become a daily habit. But I am glad I now have that option, if I need to occasionally fall back on it. 

Part of me is now wondering if I shouldn't do it sometimes when I shower before sex. He doesn't like that sex takes "so long". So maybe if I took care of myself beforehand, I could just talk him into quickies and he would enjoy it more. Then I'd also get that intimate time I've been craving, without having to worry about getting my orgasm, and making him bored.

I'm just so confused and torn right now.

I also don't know if I should tell him. I don't want to make him angry, or hurt his feelings or ego. I'm thinking this might just be a secret that I should keep to myself. But at the same time, I'd want to know if he was masturbating.


----------



## john_lord_b3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry to hear what you've been through


----------



## TheStranger

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm not sure what is a game changer here? The act of masturbation which lacked everything you love about sex?!

Nothing changed here IMO. He is a selfish person and you enable him to be that way. The fact that he rejected you like that several times in a row and still asked for a blowjob is the most selfish thing I have ever seen here on TAM and I have lurked thousands of posts. This is no small feat.

It's obvious what he's doing. What are you doing? Do you think your behavior is healthy?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheStranger said:


> I'm not sure what is a game changer here? The act of masturbation which lacked everything you love about sex?!
> 
> Nothing changed here IMO. He is a selfish person and you enable him to be that way. The fact that he rejected you like that several times in a row and still asked for a blowjob is the most selfish thing I have ever seen here on TAM and I have lurked thousands of posts. This is no small feat.
> 
> It's obvious what he's doing. What are you doing? Do you think your behavior is healthy?


His behavior for sure hasn't changed. I say game changer, because up until this point I felt like I should save myself for him and shouldn't masturbate. It has taking an enormous pressure off of me to know that I'm not helpless without him, and I don't need to depend on him to "get mine" too, and that I shouldn't feel bad about it.

He is selfish with intimacy. But at the same time, every time we do have sex he always wants and tries to get me there. So he's not completely heartless. He'd just prefer only to have sex 3 times a week, because he doesn't feel like the "extra work" is worth the end result any more times than that. 

I love the passion and intimacy of sex more than the orgasm. But at the same time I need that release or I just continue getting more cranky and edgy. I feel like it will relieve some of the tension of sex if we won't have to try so hard to get me to orgasm, and instead focus on having fun. Now I at least know that other measures can be taken if I just can't get there, or a quickie is in order. 

I know I am enabler. But at the same time, I don't want to be a heartless cruel wife that withholds. 

TheStranger, what would you have done in my situation?


----------



## TheStranger

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know I am enabler. But at the same time, I don't want to be a heartless cruel wife that withholds.


Between those two options there is a vast sea of options. 



> TheStranger, what would you have done in my situation?


I would feel humiliated tbh. He used you, reciprocated nothing and left you to be with his friends. 

Huge fight would ensue and would not abate until he apologized and agreed that some things have to change from now on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheStranger said:


> Between those two options there is a vast sea of options.
> 
> I would feel humiliated tbh. He used you, reciprocated nothing and left you to be with his friends.
> 
> Huge fight would ensue and would not abate until he apologized and agreed that some things have to change from now on.


Mostly I just feel not good enough or inadequate. There is some self doubt there that maybe if I was "better or more fun" at sex then he would want to do it with me. I think it's probably part of the reason I don't say no. I want him to enjoy it and have a good time, I really do. 

When he has trouble reaching climax, or seemed uninterested or bored I take it as a direct blow to my self worth. Am I not good enough?

It's hard for me to really comprehend that it is him, and not me.

I get so jealous of stories of men on here that worship their wives bodies, or how they love going down, or think the woman's body is beautiful. 

The biggest thought I get in my head is the few times he has mentioned me smelling like fish, or how ugly lady parts are. I just can't seem to shake the feelings that I am disgusting to him, and that he just tolerates it to make me happy. Even if those aren't his real thoughts.

I've talked until I was blue, I've cried. He seems sorry, but just doesn't act like he gets it. He holds me, and comforts me. But in the end he doesn't see anything as a problem. He says most men don't take care of their woman's needs at all, and that he is more than generous than the majority. I don't know where he gets this "information" about how all men are wham bam and done. :scratchhead: 

We are in a sexual rut, and I don't know how to dig my way out of it. I don't want to blow up a huge argument. Because I feel like he still won't understand. He'll just think I'm unreasonable, and will put a gap between us.

I'm not sure what I want from him, even if I started an argument. And even if I knew, I don't think he will ever be that type of person. You can't change a personality.


----------



## TheStranger

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Mostly I just feel not good enough or inadequate.


The root of problem. This is why you allow to be disrespected.



> I get so jealous of stories of men on here that worship their wives bodies, or how they love going down, or think the woman's body is beautiful.


Then I won't talk about me. 



> I'm not sure what I want from him, even if I started an argument. And even if I knew, I don't think he will ever be that type of person. You can't change a personality.


You can't of course. What you can is figure out what is acceptable for you and what is not and let him know. Respond strongly and immediately if he tries to challenge your boundaries. Firm NO will be enough.

I know this is theoretical talk but don't let him define your self worth!


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He sounds pretty selfish to me, weaseling into a BJ for what was supposed to be "you" time, then leaving you hanging was really rude of him. He should consider himself lucky and grasp every opportunity, there is 10x the HD guys on here that complain about LD women than there is vice versa.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheStranger said:


> The root of problem. This is why you allow to be disrespected.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I won't talk about me.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't of course. What you can is figure out what is acceptable for you and what is not and let him know. Respond strongly and immediately if he tries to challenge your boundaries. Firm NO will be enough.
> 
> I know this is theoretical talk but don't let him define your self worth!


Thank you. It's so hard for me to say no, because I really do love him, and I want to make him happy. But I also see I need to stick up for myself. 

I need to really think about what is acceptable. I know what makes me upset. But at the same time, it's not fair to say that I can never give him blow jobs if he doesn't reciprocate.

Any suggestions on good boundaries?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



badcompany said:


> He sounds pretty selfish to me, weaseling into a BJ for what was supposed to be "you" time, then leaving you hanging was really rude of him. He should consider himself lucky and grasp every opportunity, there is 10x the HD guys on here that complain about LD women than there is vice versa.


That's what I don't understand. I feel like he should be extra enthusiastic because I'm HD, but it almost seems like a burden to him. 

He's living in this fantasy world where he thinks men don't get that much enjoyment out of pleasing their wives, and that we are above and beyond normal. And no amount of talking can convince him otherwise. 

I have no idea where he is getting these ideas from. He has really no married friends, and no one in a intimate relationship to talk to. So he is totally just guessing? :scratchhead:

I wish I could get him to read this website, without blowing my cover.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Maybe you do need to deny him. Let him see how it feels to be turned down a few times.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I denied his quckie idea last night. 

"Yes of course honey. After not having sex for a week, a quickie (aka for you) is exactly what I want...." NOT

So I'm not completely a doormat. I do stick up for myself sometimes, just not as often as I should.

I have noticed that is my personality, and I am a doormat for my friends, and for my boss. I often let others take advantage of me. I just enjoy making people happy, even at my own expense. I think that is a personality trait I will always struggle with.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Strange isn't it. You can enjoy pleasing others and in turn they lose respect and treat you like a doormat, you get selfish and they look up to you. I'll never understand it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well last night was a doozy.

10 minutes before I had to leave for class he rips off his clothes and climbs on top and starts kissing, but I know what he is up to. He asks for another quickie.

I tell him no that I haven't shaved my lady parts all week because I shave everyday and since he won't touch me during this time I use this as an excuse to get a break from the daily shaving and let any razor burn heal. If he would have gave me some warning I would have shaved, but usually he doesn't touch me with a ten foot pole.

He insists that I could go hurry and shower and shave and have a quickie. In 10 minutes? I tell him no and shove him off. 


Then he starts pouting, and saying how selfish I am and how I never do anything for him. I remind him of the 5 orgasms I've given him in the last 6 days without one complaint. And how when I begged for a little attention he said absolutely no. And he says his only take 5 minutes, so all that was only equal to one time of him giving me one, and that I owe him so much more. I OWE HIM!? 

Argument starts.

I could have slapped that man upside the head. He thinks I owe him 4 times the amount, every time he rubs me for 20 minutes. I thought you were suppose to enjoy pleasing one another, I thought you did it because it was fun and you love them. But apparently he is keeping a "score" in his head.

I offered a blow job because that is all I had time for, or that we could have a quickie when I got home. And he said no, that he wasn't in the mood anymore, and that he probably won't be tomorrow either, or the next day.

If I ever deny him, he uses sex as leverage. 

He said that if we had a quickie at night he'd start rubbing, and then I'd want him to keep going. Oh the horror.

So my assumptions were true. In the past it seems like he has only initiated when we were getting ready to leave somewhere. It's true. He picked times when we only had a few minutes, so then we'd only have time for a quickie, and he'd be off the hook about putting any effort in. 

I told him he was being childish and a baby, and I went about my business visibly upset. A couple minutes later he was being a suck up and saying how sorry he was for upsetting me. He apologized.

He was sorry. But he was only sorry that I was upset. He still isn't sorry that he doesn't care about my needs. He thinks I'm being the selfish unreasonable one. And I just don't know who to believe.  Sometimes I wonder if I am the selfish one. I just don't know anymore.

When I got home I asked him if he still wanted the quickie, because I wanted to prove to him that I won't always talk him into long sessions. He said no and we watched a movie while falling asleep. Then 45 minutes later after I was already dozing off he says how about that quickie... I'm assuming again that he thought I'd be too tired for a long session, and it was his way of tricking me into a quickie.

So i went and cleaned up, and we kissed half heartedly for a couple minutes. When he went to rub me i pushed him away and he was surprised. He lasted about 30 seconds, then I cleaned up and went to bed.

He made some empty promises about a "long" session tonight. But I don't want to _owe_ him anything. I think I'll pass.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It always surprises me too that when he is trying to talk me into a quickie some of his main persuasions are, "Don't worry. It will be really fast. You won't feel a thing." Yeah that's exactly what I want.

I'm feeling really used right now. I know it will get better now that cranky time is over, and we start having regular sex again.

But how can I not think of all the hurtful things he said, every time we have sex. How can I not think that he is doing it to get something in return. Or that he hates it. How can I let him touch me when I know I will owe him something. 

I don't think I will ever forget.

Sorry for the long rant. My heart is just aching.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



badcompany said:


> Strange isn't it. You can enjoy pleasing others and in turn they lose respect and treat you like a doormat, you get selfish and they look up to you. I'll never understand it.


I guess it's the realization that you have to make people keep a distance. There are very few people you can have close to you, no matter who you are. Some people need to be kept at a very far distance, and your observation is correct. It seems they get too close and will do these behaviors to get you down. Some intentional, some is subconscious.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry to hear that curious, he's very selfish, sounds like he would have a sex time clock if it was up to him. You have a drive most guys would die for and this guy takes it completely for granted
Note that I nominated you as a member of the "TAM LD wife intervention group", just some humor for the most part and a way to recognize the ladies here that embrace their sexuality in a strong and positive way.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well thanks for the support. 

I think I have a long, hard, journey ahead. I'll just keep my head up, and keep trying. 

I'll check out that thread. Thanks


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It always surprises me too that when he is trying to talk me into a quickie some of his main persuasions are, "Don't worry. It will be really fast. You won't feel a thing." Yeah that's exactly what I want.
> 
> I'm feeling really used right now. I know it will get better now that cranky time is over, and we start having regular sex again.


Yet for the hubbies stuck with LD or SLD (super LD) wives they'd gladly give a limb or other vital body part for regular quickies - it's an argument of quantity vs quality... 

Relatively High quantity and Low Quality i.e. quickies is far more palatable than High Quality and Low Quantity. It is just as damaging to realize that the feisty Dr. Mrs. LD does really well in the horizontal front (2-3 hrs) but has the mating habits of a koala bear . High Quantity and Low Quality is also easier to fix since intimacy does not enter the "out of sight, out of mind" realm...


----------



## TheStranger

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Sorry for the long rant. My heart is just aching.


This is the time for simple facts:

Your husband is not interested in sex. 

Doesn't matter if it's with you only or in general, the result is the same. He's interested in getting his release so he can do other stuff that interest him and not be bothered with it.

I know the feeling when I was single there were periods of time when I wasn't feeling horny but I still felt tension and therefore continued to masturbate regularly just to get a release.

Is this how he acted from the beginning of your sexual relationship?


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheStranger said:


> He's interested in getting his release so he can do other stuff that interest him


Typical LD mentality. Hurry up and finish so I can do whatever long list of things that are more important than you...ugh. 
Maybe get him drunk, tie him up and sit on his face, don't know what else to suggest.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Your husband is selfish & immature.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This thread is so uncomfortable to read. You are allowing yourself to be used horribly. Its emotional abuse. As with emotional abuse the abuser twists words and situations to their favor. Makes you doubt your own sanity and feelings. 

I'm really not sure what you accomplished by drawing a boundary by saying - I have gotten you off 4 times this week and now I would like you to get me off one time this week. Then the next thing is you offering a blow job because he doesn't care for your boundary. Then the fist thing you do when you get home is offer him another quickie.

Seriously. I don't know that your husband is LD as much as hes just a ****. And you are enabling him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know I'm an enabler. 

My emotions and feelings are just so messed up. It's hard for me to make rational decisions. Then when I go back and think about it later I realize how stupid I was.

Wednesday I had decided that I didn't want him to pleasure me. I didn't want to feel like I owe him anything. He asked to have sex, I told him no. I said we could have a quickie, but I did not want him touching me. We fought and fought and in the end he won. He said he didn't want to have a quickie, that I needed an orgasm, and that he felt selfish for not giving me one for so long.... He just now figured that out.

I only give you guys the bad stuff. But he isn't always selfish. That's why I get so confused. The majority of the time he always takes care of my needs. Then every once in a while he does stupid stuff like the past week.

The root of our problems always seem worse around cranky time. He won't touch me at all, and I think I get resentful. Plus I'm horny and grouchy anyway.

I don't think he is emotionally abusing me. :scratchhead:

He never tries to hurt my feelings on purpose. He just acts so stupid sometimes. Then other days he is all lovey and it confuses the heck out of me. 

It makes my emotions all over the place too. I don't know if I should be angry at him, or upset, or happy. I just don't know. Gah.

I think I need to put my foot down and communicate better. I need to grow a backbone and stand up for myself.

The problem is I really don't know what is acceptable and what isn't. How can I give him boundaries if I don't know them myself....

Help me out guys. What is okay, and what isn't? It's been like this for so long, I don't even know what a healthy sex life is like anymore. 

HELP!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot to mention.

We had a quickie on Tuesday, and we had full sex on Wednesday.

If your keeping track that means we had sex two days in the row for the first time in 6 months! 

So that's a little bit of progress.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

A little progress, I agree.
What is there to not understand about "**** me and make me c*m" ?
He's strange.


----------



## TheStranger

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> So that's a little bit of progress.





badcompany said:


> A little progress, I agree.


What progress?

It's still the same story as before. Everything was done the way he wanted. Only this time his wants weren't completely selfish. But in the end she still does everything he wants and doesn't stand up for herself.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In your scenario the other night you say you didn't want him to pleasure you - you instead offered him a quicky.

He says men don't care about their wife's needs. You have noticed a pattern of him picking times for sex that are inconvenient and get him out of any of the work.

In the above scenario from the other night you tried to make a point of making yourself emotionally unavailable and ended up giving him exactly what he wanted - a sexual act from you that required no effort on his part. What is his motivation to change if pissing you off results in a blow job?

Incidently I am not judging you, I have my own sexual B.S to deal with.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Help me out guys. What is okay, and what isn't?


It helps me to practice avoiding anger and judgement. I do this by reminding myself of my own failings. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, as I would like given to me. I am almost never certain of the motivations of another, so I try to assume the most positive motivations. I try not to conclude stupidity, selfishness, or meanness, if it might be ignorance, fear, or mistake. With this mindset, I focus on hurt, instead of anger, and I think it's particularly important to express this hurt, not anger, to a spouse. And less can be more. Don't give up, try again tomorrow, but don't go on explaining why you hurt too repetitively today.

I would also encourage you not to spend a great deal of effort seeking "objective reality" in a marriage. If a majority of people on this site think this or that about your situation, it may not be very useful. If one spouse thinks water is wet, but the other thinks water is dry, trying to find the answer in a book, or by surveying other people, is unlikely to solve the problem, in my experience. Love and patience might.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



bestyet2be said:


> It helps me to practice avoiding anger and judgement. I do this by reminding myself of my own failings. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, as I would like given to me. I am almost never certain of the motivations of another, so I try to assume the most positive motivations. I try not to conclude stupidity, selfishness, or meanness, if it might be ignorance, fear, or mistake. With this mindset, I focus on hurt, instead of anger, and I think it's particularly important to express this hurt, not anger, to a spouse. And less can be more. Don't give up, try again tomorrow, but don't go on explaining why you hurt too repetitively today.
> 
> I would also encourage you not to spend a great deal of effort seeking "objective reality" in a marriage. If a majority of people on this site think this or that about your situation, it may not be very useful. If one spouse thinks water is wet, but the other thinks water is dry, trying to find the answer in a book, or by surveying other people, is unlikely to solve the problem, in my experience. Love and patience might.


Thank you for this beautiful post. This is what I try to do. I don't get angry very easy, but I do get hurt easily.

A lot of people on this site only look at the bad. I really try to show grace, and give more chances. But to most that makes me a doormat. I'm so happy to see someone with a more positive mindset.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He is back to his caring, and giving self.

It's so hard to comprehend how he can be selfish one day, then so loving the next. :scratchhead:

I stood up for myself last week. I told him no when he suggested a quickie, I feel more confident.

We've had some great sex recently. In fact yesterday we tried a new position, and he stimulated me while doing PIV and I had my first orgasm with him inside me. It was great, and I think it was an ego booster for him. 

He's been wanting to try new stuff, and be more adventurous, all without me asking. It's great. 

I will continue being more mindful of my own feelings, and not letting him take advantage. I will also continue enjoying the good place we are at right now.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you Curious! I hope things continue to improve.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sex is still going well. 

(Not as much as I'd like, but that's my life story.)

I bought a new piece of lingerie that I was going to surprise him with on our Anniversary next month but I couldn't wait and we went ahead and used it. 

It got really good reviews. :smthumbup:

He also has held me while sleeping that last couple nights and I LOVE it.

Sadness is that period week starts again on Wednesday, and I can already feel the storm clouds coming. 

Why does stupid hormones always have to come and ruin my parade every time things start going good. It seems like we always take a large step back this time of month. Because he absolutely refuses any kind of sexual intimacy.

I love pleasuring him, but I'd be lying if I said I don't get resentful. I'd be happy if he'd just take care of my needs, one time this week. Or even try to put some effort in. Maybe extra snuggling. But he doesn't and won't. So I'm cranky, horny, and thinking he is selfish all over again.

Gah!

I need some advice on how to get through this week every month.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Sadness is that period week starts again on Wednesday, and I can already feel the storm clouds coming.


So?
That is what the red towel is for


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



badcompany said:


> So?
> That is what the red towel is for


:iagree:

Husband does not.

He refuses to touch me during this time.

Not even any trying with a condom, or stimulating me while I have a tampon in. 

It grosses him out a little. But not horribly. We've tried it a few times, and it didn't seem to bother him that much. 

The problem is now, he says this week is just for him, and him only. He says he deserves a week a month to not have to give pleasure...

I don't believe I get a week off from giving him pleasure. 

So you can see why the resentment and sadness starts building.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Husband does not.
> 
> He refuses to touch me during this time.
> 
> Not even any trying with a condom, or stimulating me while I have a tampon in.
> 
> It grosses him out a little. But not horribly. We've tried it a few times, and it didn't seem to bother him that much.
> 
> The problem is now, he says this week is just for him, and him only. He says he deserves a week a month to not have to give pleasure...
> 
> I don't believe I get a week off from giving him pleasure.
> 
> So you can see why the resentment and sadness starts building.


Give him a week if you get a week.


----------



## notmarriedyet

*LD Husband Journal*

I feel your frustration! I get mad myself by reading your posts. 

He says he gets a week a month off from giving pleasure? As if it's a chore? He won't even snuggle you when you're on your period? WTF?!?!?

I could not be in a relationship like that. Or a marriage. I'm sorry for saying that but that is awful. A spouse refusing intimacy? Whaaaa?? It sounds like he treats it as a chore and he needs a vacation from it. I don't even get a week off every month, and my job is ten hours a day, five days a week. 

I guess that's why I'm single.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> Give him a week if you get a week.


Clarifying what I was saying. Having a week where one partner gets to be self centred isn't really a bad thing at all. As long as you get a week like this too.

So if he wants a week where the pleasure is mostly about him. Then you also get a week where the pleasure is mostly about you. 

If he can do this, then it's not unfair.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Husband does not.
> 
> He refuses to touch me during this time.
> 
> Not even any trying with a condom, or stimulating me while I have a tampon in.
> 
> It grosses him out a little. But not horribly. We've tried it a few times, and it didn't seem to bother him that much.
> 
> The problem is now, he says this week is just for him, and him only. He says he deserves a week a month to not have to give pleasure...
> 
> I don't believe I get a week off from giving him pleasure.
> 
> So you can see why the resentment and sadness starts building.


I am not a selfish lover. I get off more on the giving of pleasure than the receiving. I was always under the impression that this quality of mine would help out my relations in the bedroom. Not so. Anyways, i will echo what Treyvion said above. If he gets a week of it being all about him, you should get the same.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We had the discussion yet again.

I thought I should bring it up while I'm still sane and not sex deprived, and thinking crazy.

He said no and insisted that it won't "kill me" to go 10 days without sex. And that this week is for him.

I told him then that I get a week just for me.

He said no, and used the same old argument that it's not the same because I take longer.

WHO CARES IF I TAKE LONGER! He is getting attention and stimulation at the time as I am. So it's not just like he is sitting there waiting for his. 



*deep breaths*

This was after I got home early from school and was hoping I'd get one last chance at sex. The minute I walked in the door and smiled at him, I got a NO. Before I even said a thing.

This time of month just makes me want to tear my hair out, or beat him. He is so selfish for a week or two a month. 

I'm at a loss of what to do.


----------



## ClimbingTheWalls

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he won't do a week just for you then all I can suggest is stipulating that period week is no action week. It won't kill him to go without sex any more than it will kill you. You get nothing; he gets nothing. Period. (As it were).


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ClimbingTheWalls said:


> If he won't do a week just for you then all I can suggest is stipulating that period week is no action week. It won't kill him to go without sex any more than it will kill you. You get nothing; he gets nothing. Period. (As it were).


Do this Curious!! What's good for the goose is good for the gander! You get 10 days off too!


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have a hard time understanding how some men can be so selfish in bed. The satisfaction that I get from doing all of the little stuff before hand and having it culminate in her having mulitple O's is simply amazing. I find that the more effort you put into making it good for her, the more you get back in return.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Do this Curious!! What's good for the goose is good for the gander! You get 10 days off too!


I mentioned this already. He said that's fine...

But I don't like it. If I don't satisfy him he'll just go masturbate, and I don't like the thought of that.

Besides the fact that I love giving him blows jobs.

I just don't know if I should enforce this or not. :/


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> I have a hard time understanding how some men can be so selfish in bed. The satisfaction that I get from doing all of the little stuff before hand and having it culminate in her having mulitple O's is simply amazing. I find that the more effort you put into making it good for her, the more you get back in return.



My husband has no interested in trying for multiple o's. Once I have mine, he wants to wrap it up asap. I'm almost positive I could have multiples, but I will never ask.

He never thrusts for more than a few minutes either. The quicker the better in his opinion, so he can go back to doing other things.


I texted him and asked if we could have sex when I get home from school. He said maybe. Which usually means no. 

I may get home as late as 11pm and he said that's too late.

But last night when I asked at 9.30 and he said he was too tired, that didn't keep him from staying up and doing other things until 11.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If you want to be happy in this marriage, you're going to have to accept that he is LD and it isn't going to change, and you're going to have to masturbate.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My husband has no interested in trying for multiple o's. Once I have mine, he wants to wrap it up asap. I'm almost positive I could have multiples, but I will never ask.
> 
> UGH
> 
> He never thrusts for more than a few minutes either. The quicker the better in his opinion, so he can go back to doing other things.
> 
> UGH
> 
> I texted him and asked if we could have sex when I get home from school. He said maybe. Which usually means no.
> 
> I may get home as late as 11pm and he said that's too late.
> But last night when I asked at 9.30 and he said he was too tired, that didn't keep him from staying up and doing other things until 11.
> You can sleep when your dead-life is too short
> 
> .


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> If you want to be happy in this marriage, you're going to have to accept that he is LD and it isn't going to change, and you're going to have to masturbate.


I realize all of this. I just don't want to come to terms with it. I want to fight. I feel like I'm in a sinking ship and I'm waving my arms but not getting anywhere.


I feel like I need to do something drastic. Like cut off all sexual intimacy, until it wakes him up. When I tell him I have needs too he doesn't take me seriously. He laughs it off.

The problem is I'm not brave enough, and I'm scared.

It's so hard for me to say no, when everything inside of me is screaming yes. How do I get up the courage to put my foot down? 

It's so hard to fight my basic instinct. I feel like a horny teenager.

I don't think I can do it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Try reading up on assertiveness training.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My husband has no interested in trying for multiple o's. Once I have mine, he wants to wrap it up asap. I'm almost positive I could have multiples, but I will never ask.
> 
> He never thrusts for more than a few minutes either. The quicker the better in his opinion, so he can go back to doing other things.
> 
> 
> I texted him and asked if we could have sex when I get home from school. He said maybe. Which usually means no.
> 
> I may get home as late as 11pm and he said that's too late.
> 
> But last night when I asked at 9.30 and he said he was too tired, that didn't keep him from staying up and doing other things until 11.


I will read this thread from the start once I am home so pardon my ignorance. What causes his low desire (if you know, of course)? This thread is about you but I have the same frustrations. If my wife asked for it, I would make sure it happened many times that night.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> If you want to be happy in this marriage, you're going to have to accept that he is LD and it isn't going to change, and you're going to have to masturbate.


I think the biggest issue is that he is simply selfish!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> I will read this thread from the start once I am home so pardon my ignorance. What causes his low desire (if you know, of course)? This thread is about you but I have the same frustrations. If my wife asked for it, I would make sure it happened many times that night.


I have no idea what causes his low desire.

He has a low stress life, I'm not a mean or nagging wife, I'm adventurous, we have fun together. I always build him up, and tell him how great he is, how hot, very appreciative of anything and everything he does. And he couldn't get enough of snuggling, and making out before we started having sex.

I'm also not fat or ugly...

I'm 5'7" at 130 pounds, with blonde hair and blue eyes. 

He also has quite a bit of free time. A LOT more than me. So it's not like he misses out on his friends, or his hobbies.


I'm still guessing it's low T. But who knows.

He doesn't have any facial hair besides a goatee... *Like he can't grow any except a mustache and a small goatee. * I've always heard no facial hair is a sign of low T. 

He's also always tired, and falls asleep so fast and easily. He can also be moody. More signs of low T. 

But he won't get tested. And I'm scared even if he did it'd come back normal and then I'd have no idea what's causing this.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*Is telling him no about any sexual intimacy for a while the correct thing to do?*

How long should I refuse?

I'm confused if this is the next step I should take. Because talking is getting me no where.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have no idea what causes his low desire.
> 
> He has a low stress life, I'm not a mean or nagging wife, I'm adventurous, we have fun together. I always build him up, and tell him how great he is, how hot, very appreciative of anything and everything he does. And he couldn't get enough of snuggling, and making out before we started having sex.
> 
> I'm also not fat or ugly...
> 
> I'm 5'7" at 130 pounds, with blonde hair and blue eyes.
> 
> He also has quite a bit of free time. A LOT more than me. So it's not like he misses out on his friends, or his hobbies.
> 
> . I'm still guessing it's low T. But who knows.
> 
> He doesn't have any facial hair besides a goatee... *Like he can't grow any except a mustache and a small goatee. * I've always heard no facial hair is a sign of low T.
> 
> He's also always tired, and falls asleep so fast and easily. He can also be moody. More signs of low T.
> 
> But he won't get tested. And I'm scared even if he did it'd come back normal and then I'd have no idea what's causing this.


That sounds like a classic case of low T. Again, pardon my ignorance, is getting tested and then taking supplements/getting shots expensive?

Some of the things that kill my mood are drinking, being tired, and any indication that she is not into it. This does not seem to be the problem with him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> That sounds like a classic case of low T. Again, pardon my ignorance, is getting tested and then taking supplements/getting shots expensive?
> 
> Some of the things that kill my mood are drinking, being tired, and any indication that she is not into it. This does not seem to be the problem with him.


I'm not sure if it's expensive or not. I just can't get him to go to the doctor at all. 

Yes, he doesn't have the normal excuses to not being into sex. So I'm completely at a loss to what could be causing it. :scratchhead:


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not sure if it's expensive or not. I just can't get him to go to the doctor at all.
> 
> Yes, he doesn't have the normal excuses to not being into sex. So I'm completely at a loss to what could be causing it. :scratchhead:


How often do you have sex? 

I would abstain from sex for at least a month. It is rough. I realize that it is different for a woman but I am on 10 weeks without it. I am not sure that it is going to achieve my desired result.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> How often do you have sex?
> 
> I would abstain from sex for at least a month. It is rough. I realize that it is different for a woman but I am on 10 weeks without it. I am not sure that it is going to achieve my desired result.


We have sex 2 or 3 times a week.

A MONTH!! 

I don't know if I can do it. Just thinking about going a week without is about to kill me. 

How will I ever get through this?


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We have sex 2 or 3 times a week.
> 
> A MONTH!!
> 
> I don't know if I can do it. Just thinking about going a week without is about to kill me.
> 
> How will I ever get through this?


I feel for you. That is all that I am going to say. I want it every day and this current 10-week drought has started to affect me beyond just being unfulfilled. 

Is there anything in life that really gets his motor revved up? Football, motorcycles, rock concerts, etc?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> I feel for you. That is all that I am going to say. I want it every day and this current 10-week drought has started to affect me beyond just being unfulfilled.
> 
> Is there anything in life that really gets his motor revved up? Football, motorcycles, rock concerts, etc?


After more than a few days I get mean, cranky, loose sleep... I can't imagine how I'd be in a month. 

He LOVES baseball. He lives for it. He wanted to be a MLB player when he was younger. He says "I ruined his dream because he got married and had to settle down instead of pursing his career."

That is bull, I always told him to go for it. He never wanted it bad enough, and never tried for it. 

I hate baseball. My dad loves it as well. When I was a kid my only goal in life was that I wouldn't marry someone who liked baseball. Because my dad would ignore me when the game was on. So what did I do? I went and married baseballs number one fan. I should have seen that as a bad sign. 

Anyway. That's another story for another day.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> After more than a few days I get mean, cranky, loose sleep... I can't imagine how I'd be in a month.
> 
> He LOVES baseball. He lives for it. He wanted to be a MLB player when he was younger. He says "I ruined his dream because he got married and had to settle down instead of pursing his career."
> 
> That is bull, I always told him to go for it. He never wanted it bad enough, and never tried for it.
> 
> I hate baseball. My dad loves it as well. When I was a kid my only goal in life was that I wouldn't marry someone who liked baseball. Because my dad would ignore me when the game was on. So what did I do? I went and married baseballs number one fan. I should have seen that as a bad sign.
> 
> Anyway. That's another story for another day.


that is another telling sign. Nothing against baseball but it is not a high energy entity. It does not have the "rah-rah", high energy, and intensity that other sports (playing or watching) have. 

Not to get too personal but are you loud and/or expressive when it comes to the bedroom. Does he know if you he is "hitting the spot"?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> that is another telling sign. Nothing against baseball but it is not a high energy entity. It does not have the "rah-rah", high energy, and intensity that other sports (playing or watching) have.
> 
> Not to get too personal but are you loud and/or expressive when it comes to the bedroom. Does he know if you he is "hitting the spot"?


I'm not a porn screamer. But I can be aloud, and yes he knows. I always moan, talk dirty, and give feedback. 

He on the other hand doesn't make any noise during sex except when he finishes he breathes a little faster. No vocal. 

That is one of the things that bothers me. I have no way of telling if he is even enjoying himself, or if he is just pushing through a duty. 

After sex I'm all smiles and "wow that was great." He just goes about his business. No snuggling, no good remarks.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hon, he's just not that sexual. You can't change that in someone else.

You have to learn to not take it personally, it just is what it is.

The only way to force a change would be to threaten separation or D. I don't think that is the way you want to go.

I would actually go that route. But since it sounds like you will not, then your only other option is to ACCEPT HIM and stop taking it personally.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not a porn screamer. But I can be aloud, and yes he knows. I always moan, talk dirty, and give feedback.
> 
> He on the other hand doesn't make any noise during sex except when he finishes he breathes a little faster. No vocal.
> 
> That is one of the things that bothers me. I have no way of telling if he is even enjoying himself, or if he is just pushing through a duty.
> 
> After sex I'm all smiles and "wow that was great." He just goes about his business. No snuggling, no good remarks.


I will quit picking your brain after this one. He must have low T. It's possible that he has some performance anxiety buried away. I have deep seated issues with being on the receiving end of oral, as an example.

I am not all that expressive when it comes time to have an O. Before that, I make my presence known.

Well, I wish you luck. You have to find some way to get him tested and so on. Otherwise, you and the battery operated friend are going to get very close.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Hon, he's just not that sexual. You can't change that in someone else.
> 
> You have to learn to not take it personally, it just is what it is.
> 
> The only way to force a change would be to threaten separation or D. I don't think that is the way you want to go.
> 
> I would actually go that route. But since it sounds like you will not, then your only other option is to ACCEPT HIM and stop taking it personally.


So you don't think I should deny sex for a time and see if he gets the message?

I HATE being at his beck and call. He takes sex when he wants, he leaves it when he wants... I'm always waiting for him to finally say yes. 

There is never a thought about my feelings, or maybe he could just suck it up to make me happy every once in a while. 

No oral.

No long sessions.

No sleeping naked.

No touching if we aren't actively having sex.
I'm not free to go up and grope him, or even kiss him.

He has so many silent rules. It feels like I have to tip toe around, and hope I ask him at just the right time, on just the right day.



I'm just getting so tired of it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think you should either....

*learn to be more assertive in getting your needs met (this is on you, you have said so many times "but I just don't know how to say this or that...)

*or threaten separation so he knows it might really come to that (but only do this when you get to the point of really ready to walk)

*and definitely masturbate...your husband has not asked you not to, you just don't like to


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I think you should either....
> 
> *learn to be more assertive in getting your needs met (this is on you, you have said so many times "but I just don't know how to say this or that...)
> 
> *Will Do. I think telling him no for a while is the only way I'm going to be able to jump start this. I will communicate better as well.*
> 
> *or threaten separation so he knows it might really come to that (but only do this when you get to the point of really ready to walk)
> 
> *and definitely masturbate...your husband has not asked you not to, you just don't like to
> 
> *Will do, at least it will keep my head more clear and I will not be so easy to give in.*


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ok telling him "no"....what do you really think you are communicating to him by doing that?

Because if you aren't even clear with what you mean for it to communicate, then all it really is is passive agressive.

You need to learn to be ASSERTIVE.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he asks why not I will tell him that I'm not ready for sexual intimacy until he tries to work on his selfishness and until he realizes that his feelings aren't the only ones that matter. 

I want it to communicate that I'm not at his beck and call, and he can't take me for granted. I also want him to experience how it feels to be rejected, and your feelings to not have any bearing in any decisions.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The *assertive* way to do this is to have the conversation first, not wait for him to ask.

"Honey, I have decided I need to place a boundary around my own actions. That boundary means that I can't feel good about having sex with you until I can be assured that you are not going to take me for granted any longer".

The way you said it in your post above actually communicates this:

"I'm mad at you and am withholding to punish you until you see what you did wrong".


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This thread and the forum as a whole have given me faith that not all women are low drive. I was starting to get the feeling that sex is just a way to appease us unruly men. Reading that they sometimes want it as bad (or more) as we want it is encouraging.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> The *assertive* way to do this is to have the conversation first, not wait for him to ask.
> 
> "Honey, I have decided I need to place a boundary around my own actions. That boundary means that I can't feel good about having sex with you until I can be assured that you are not going to take me for granted any longer".
> 
> The way you said it in your post above actually communicates this:
> 
> "I'm mad at you and am withholding to punish you until you see what you did wrong".


I actually thought about this all evening before I seen this post and I had already decided to talk to him first, and I have already came up with something very similar to what you suggest. I should have been clearer, I apologize.

He offered last night and I told him no thanks, he didn't push it and it was late so I decided to save the conversation until this evening, when I'm sure he will ask for a blow job.

I'm going to start as such, "Honey I think we need to take a sexual break for a little while. It it getting hard for me to enjoy it, because there is some issues we need to work on that bother me. When I have tried to bring them up in the past you haven't taken me seriously."

Then I will as gently as possible mention his selfishness, and my feeling of self worth when he rejects me, and calls me smelly or says I take forever. I will also bring up how sex appears to me as a chore for him, and how mechanical it is. Then maybe we can work out these things together.

I hope I'm doing the right thing. We are on day 4 right now, and Husband was already mentioning last night how long it's been. 

Denying him is going to break my heart. 

Just the thought of him having to take care of himself makes me feel sick. Which is weird because I am and will continue to take care of myself, and it really doesn't bother me. But I feel a sense of duty to keep him satisfied. And I love giving him that.

I feel like a failure as a wife. And I'm feeling like a mean person. I don't want to do this, but I can't keep letting him walk all over me either. I feel like a week or so of suffering would be worth it if it makes our marriage stronger. And I'll just have to keep telling myself that.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I can't remember, are you in counseling? The self-loathing you are describing does not match the situation...but it is also making the situation worse.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't self loathe. I just feel crappy when I tell him no. I would think anyone who loves their spouse feels bad when they turn down sex.

And no. No counseling. Can't afford it.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't self loathe. I just feel crappy when I tell him no. I would think anyone who loves their spouse feels bad when they turn down sex.
> 
> And no. No counseling. Can't afford it.


That's not love. You care about your spouses need for intimacy. It's tied into your love. You can love him without caring about his need. As a true LD, they would think the need for intimacy is about as useful as a need for candy in your diet.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> That's not love. You care about your spouses need for intimacy. It's tied into your love. You can love him without caring about his need. As a true LD, they would think the need for intimacy is about as useful as a need for candy in your diet.


Okay I think anyone who loves their spouse _should_ feel bad when they turn them down. I feel like if you love them you would care about their need for intimacy. Just my opinion though. 

So no. I don't feel guilty or self loathing about feeling bad for turning him down. I feel it's justified.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Okay I think anyone who loves their spouse _should_ feel bad when they turn them down. I feel like if you love them you would care about their need for intimacy. Just my opinion though.
> 
> So no. I don't feel guilty or self loathing about feeling bad for turning him down. I feel it's justified.


If he needed it 12 times per week, actual full sexual sessions and you turned him down 5 times averaging nearly daily... That wouldn't be too mean.

However if he needed it 1-3 times per week, maybe a couple of hugs and peck on the cheek. A couple of kind words and positive looks. Thats it... And you thought "That's not my job" or you thought "use your hands" or you thought "he can't get anybody else, I don't want to be stuck doing this" or you thought "just because I'm married to him I don't have to do anything" or because you thought "just because you provide for me doesn't mean I have to let you touch me or be intimate with me". Thats some downright cold and mean and selfish ways.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> If he needed it 12 times per week, actual full sexual sessions and you turned him down 5 times averaging nearly daily... That wouldn't be too mean.
> 
> However if he needed it 1-3 times per week, maybe a couple of hugs and peck on the cheek. A couple of kind words and positive looks. Thats it... And you thought "That's not my job" or you thought "use your hands" or you thought "he can't get anybody else, I don't want to be stuck doing this" or you thought "just because I'm married to him I don't have to do anything" or because you thought "just because you provide for me doesn't mean I have to let you touch me or be intimate with me". Thats some downright cold and mean and selfish ways.


I agree.


----------



## treyvion

TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree.


Happens all the time and men do it to women too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Okay I think anyone who loves their spouse _should_ feel bad when they turn them down. I feel like if you love them you would care about their need for intimacy. Just my opinion though.
> 
> So no. I don't feel guilty or self loathing about feeling bad for turning him down. I feel it's justified.


I agree with you. If you are making it known that you want to have sex with them, they should feel honored even if they are not in the mood. You have plenty of options but yet chose them. You are putting yourself out there and they are rejecting you. 
In my case, the wife has zero interest and cares not that she has no interest. She does not feel bad that she has no interest.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> I agree with you. If you are making it known that you want to have sex with them, they should feel honored even if they are not in the mood. You have plenty of options but yet chose them. You are putting yourself out there and they are rejecting you.
> In my case, the wife has zero interest and cares not that she has no interest. She does not feel bad that she has no interest.



My thoughts exactly.

I think my husband and your wife are twins.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> I think my husband and your wife are twins.


It might make them feel very empowered to be the Troll that's the gatekeeper of this. Some of them build up a accumulating self worth buy controlling it and denying it according to their wishes.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> I think my husband and your wife are twins.


If we were to deny our spouse food, water, sleep, air conditioning, or comfort we would be branded as monsters. The need for sex/intimacy is fundamental to being a healthy adult. It may not be as constant or as pressing as the need for food but it is still part of life. To continually be rejected is a form of neglect.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> If we were to deny our spouse food, water, sleep, air conditioning, or comfort we would be branded as monsters. The need for sex/intimacy is fundamental to being a healthy adult. It may not be as constant or as pressing as the need for food but it is still part of life. To continually be rejected is a form of neglect.


Some of them figure. I don't want to do that, but I don't mind if you go get it from somewhere else.

I do think when were in relationships where we are never in a positive light, and perhaps we are not being considered and this is "how it's going to be", we have to decide if we remain in a relationship like this if we have a choice in the matter.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> If we were to deny our spouse food, water, sleep, air conditioning, or comfort we would be branded as monsters. The need for sex/intimacy is fundamental to being a healthy adult. It may not be as constant or as pressing as the need for food but it is still part of life. To continually be rejected is a form of neglect.


Yes for some reason intimacy is never taken as a serious need by some people. 

But to me it is. I think anyone who is sexually lacking would say the same.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> It might make them feel very empowered to be the Troll that's the gatekeeper of this. Some of them build up a accumulating self worth buy controlling it and denying it according to their wishes.


I don't event think my husband does it to feel empowered. 

I think he is just selfish and doesn't give it a second thought. I don't even think he realizes what a big deal it is. 

I know he's not doing it to hurt me on purpose. He's not a cold hearted monster, even though it seems that way sometime. It's like he just doesn't get it. It's not a big deal to him, so he doesn't understand why it bothers me so much.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes for some reason intimacy is never taken as a serious need by some people.
> 
> But to me it is. I think anyone who is sexually lacking would say the same.


Having a marriage where there is a HD partner and an LD partner requires compromise. Marriage is all about compromise so nothing new there. Sacrificing some intimacy as a form of compromise is acceptable. The game changes when all of the compromising is done by one spouse. This says that the other is not invested or simply does not care.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't event think my husband does it to feel empowered.
> 
> I think he is just selfish and doesn't give it a second thought. I don't even think he realizes what a big deal it is.
> 
> I know he's not doing it to hurt me on purpose. He's not a cold hearted monster, even though it seems that way sometime. It's like he just doesn't get it. It's not a big deal to him, so he doesn't understand why it bothers me so much.


"Geez, I guess it really does hurt her like that. It's not a really big deal to me, but it's not going to kill me to do it..."

Why not this thought?


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> Having a marriage where there is a HD partner and an LD partner requires compromise. Marriage is all about compromise so nothing new there. Sacrificing some intimacy as a form of compromise is acceptable. The game changes when all of the compromising is done by one spouse. This says that the other is not invested or simply does not care.


Ontop of "not caring", the other one may feel "I don't have to" and won't.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> "Geez, I guess it really does hurt her like that. It's not a really big deal to me, but it's not going to kill me to do it..."
> 
> Why not this thought?


I wonder the same thing. :scratchhead:


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I wonder the same thing. :scratchhead:


Curious,

If your husband was to really up the effort for one session a week, would that be enough for you? You could still have sex 2 or 3 times a week. However, for one of them he would really pour it on. Increased effort being things like lots of foreplay, texting throughout the day, him being assertive (if that is what you like) and doing his best to last long enough to help you have more or better O's.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> Curious,
> 
> If your husband was to really up the effort for one session a week, would that be enough for you? You could still have sex 2 or 3 times a week. However, for one of them he would really pour it on. Increased effort being things like lots of foreplay, texting throughout the day, him being assertive (if that is what you like) and doing his best to last long enough to help you have more or better O's.


Once a week total would not be enough for me.

Once a week of extra effort, plus 2 other so so sessions would be great with me. Heck I'd be thankful for extra effort once every two weeks. Right now I never get extra effort, or any flirting or teasing before.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Our sex is this way 99% of the time.

Kiss for 5 minutes.

Rub each other or do modified 69 for 10-15 minutes.

PIV for 2 minutes.

Go about our business.

Yesterday randomly he said, "I think we should start timing me and work on me lasting longer." He's always had this asap mentality, and didn't care that he only lasts 2 minutes. So maybe things are going to improve?

I take what he says with a grain of salt.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Once a week total would not be enough for me.
> 
> Once a week of extra effort, plus 2 other so so sessions would be great with me. Heck I'd be thankful for extra effort once every two weeks. Right now I never get extra effort, or any flirting or teasing before.


It would be a suitable compromise, I think. Once every week or two, you would get the attention and sex that you desire. For the rest of the time, he could coast by on auto-pilot. 

I have tried the sexting route and I get no response whatsoever. Days later, I will ask and she will smile and say that she liked it but nothing comes of it.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Our sex is this way 99% of the time.
> 
> Kiss for 5 minutes.
> 
> Rub each other or do modified 69 for 10-15 minutes.
> 
> PIV for 2 minutes.
> 
> Go about our business.
> 
> Yesterday randomly he said, "I think we should start timing me and work on me lasting longer." He's always had this asap mentality, and didn't care that he only lasts 2 minutes. So maybe things are going to improve?
> 
> I take what he says with a grain of salt.


Theres alot of people here who would be happy for even 2 Mins of PIV per week.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Our sex is this way 99% of the time.
> 
> Kiss for 5 minutes.
> 
> Rub each other or do modified 69 for 10-15 minutes.
> 
> PIV for 2 minutes.
> 
> Go about our business.
> 
> Yesterday randomly he said, "I think we should start timing me and work on me lasting longer." He's always had this asap mentality, and didn't care that he only lasts 2 minutes. So maybe things are going to improve?
> 
> I take what he says with a grain of salt.


Not trying to one-up you but our sessions are even less eventful.

We kiss for about 2 minutes

She breaks out the vibrator and I try to accentuate that.

Two minutes later, she wants PIV.

Within five minutes, she is asking if I can finish.


----------



## ClimbingTheWalls

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Okay I think anyone who loves their spouse _should_ feel bad when they turn them down. I feel like if you love them you would care about their need for intimacy. Just my opinion though.
> 
> So no. I don't feel guilty or self loathing about feeling bad for turning him down. I feel it's justified.


Perhaps you should try to consider the fact that turning him down is an effort on your part to get him to understand the severity of the problem. And that if it works it may save the marriage from ultimately collapsing. Because I don't see how you can carry on like this forever. Even if you do it will take a very heavy toll on your wellbeing and your happiness and that in itself will impact on the marriage even if you don't split up. You being in a bad state of mind will ultimately impact badly on him as well as you.

If your puppy dog is overweight and you put him on a diet you are going to find it hard to resist the big eyes begging for treats. I get that. But by making sure the puppy gets to the correct weight you are setting him up for a longer, happier and healthier life. Try to think of your current efforts at denial in a similar way and maybe it might help a little.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> Theres alot of people here who would be happy for even 2 Mins of PIV per week.


That may be, but I am not one of them.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> It would be a suitable compromise, I think. Once every week or two, you would get the attention and sex that you desire. For the rest of the time, he could coast by on auto-pilot.
> 
> I have tried the sexting route and I get no response whatsoever. Days later, I will ask and she will smile and say that she liked it but nothing comes of it.


I think this is a great idea, if we could figure out how it would work.

Even if once a week I could initiate without the fear of being rejected. That he would have sex with me happily when I asked.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ClimbingTheWalls said:


> Perhaps you should try to consider the fact that turning him down is an effort on your part to get him to understand the severity of the problem. And that if it works it may save the marriage from ultimately collapsing. Because I don't see how you can carry on like this forever. Even if you do it will take a very heavy toll on your wellbeing and your happiness and that in itself will impact on the marriage even if you don't split up. You being in a bad state of mind will ultimately impact badly on him as well as you.
> 
> If your puppy dog is overweight and you put him on a diet you are going to find it hard to resist the big eyes begging for treats. I get that. But by making sure the puppy gets to the correct weight you are setting him up for a longer, happier and healthier life. Try to think of your current efforts at denial in a similar way and maybe it might help a little.


Thank you. This is exactly how I feel, it's just hard to believe it.

I really want to improve our sexual relationship. Hopefully this will help. Thank you again for the encouragement.  It's nice to hear a positive voice every once in a while.


----------



## lloyd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Once a week total would not be enough for me.
> 
> Once a week of extra effort, plus 2 other so so sessions would be great with me. Heck I'd be thankful for extra effort once every two weeks. Right now I never get extra effort, or any flirting or teasing before.


I used to give that extra effort with the flirting and teasing and wanting more sex but after 13 years of her complaining telling me what I need to do all the time when there is a chance for sex I usually could care less anymore by that time.
After awhile, you just kind of give up to the bad moods and complaining and being treated like one of the kids.
I still think about sex with her all the time and I may want to have sex all day but then get home and her mood instantly takes all of that feeling away.


----------



## Sinchana

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi All...

I have been married from last 1.5 years...but my husband is not at interested in Sex...In first 3 months times we had just 4 times and after that absolutely no sex till today...He is not all bothered...He doesn't want to talk about that also..I am tired of trying all options but its just getting hopeless..In last 1.2 years there is no sex at all...I am scared of my future...He doesn't want to go n see the therapist also...and not even single day he want to try to have some physical relationship...

I tried my best to save our relationship by all the way...but nothing is working out as there is no cooperation from him...I told him to speak out his problem so that I can help him to come out of that...but he is not opening his mouth...

I am thinking of Divorce now...


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Sinchana said:


> Hi All...
> 
> I have been married from last 1.5 years...but my husband is not at interested in Sex...In first 3 months times we had just 4 times and after that absolutely no sex till today...He is not all bothered...He doesn't want to talk about that also..I am tired of trying all options but its just getting hopeless..In last 1.2 years there is no sex at all...I am scared of my future...He doesn't want to go n see the therapist also...and not even single day he want to try to have some physical relationship...
> 
> I tried my best to save our relationship by all the way...but nothing is working out as there is no cooperation from him...I told him to speak out his problem so that I can help him to come out of that...but he is not opening his mouth...
> 
> I am thinking of Divorce now...


How old are you and your husband?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I would not tolerate 4 times in over a year. I would be divorcing.

Thankfully mine isn't that bad.


----------



## Jen2013

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi, Curious,
I've just read through your thread and one thing I haven't seen mentioned that keeps running through my mind - could your husband be gay?

While I understand that some men may be LD and rarely a young 20s man may have low T, from some of the other things you've said, it may be something to consider.

He won't perform oral sex on you because he doesn't like the way you smell, he won't go near you when you have your period, you come to bed shirtless and his response isn't, "Wow, your breasts are beautiful" or anything like that, just "why don't you have on a shirt." Even if he's not feeling horny, I just can't imagine a young man with a pretty young wife having no reaction to you coming to bed shirtless. 

Maybe it's not that he's not attracted to you, specifically, but maybe he's not attracted to WOMEN. This could be why he enjoys hand jobs and blow jobs and getting off quickly and isn't aroused when he's manually stimulating you.

I don't know what your backgrounds are, but it sounds as if you didn't have sex before marriage? Perhaps he could be attracted to men, but doesn't believe that's okay because of his religious beliefs. Maybe he truly doesn't KNOW if he's attracted to men if he's only dated girls and doesn't have much sexual experience. It's just something to consider - it truly just doesn't make sense for him to seem like he's not attracted to you.

Your whole thread is really sad to me - I'm sure you and your husband get along well and enjoy life together from what you've said. But a lifetime of not feeling desired and wanted, and being made to feel ashamed when you want to be sexually satisfied, is unsustainable. This will not get easier down the road when you have children and all the problems in life that we all face as we get older - financial, health, etc. 

There are bound to be some counseling resources you can find that don't cost money - perhaps the school where you're taking classes has a counseling center. You and your husband are in for a world of hurt if you don't get some help.

I really wish you the best and I hope that even though this is giving your self-esteem a huge hit, you'll realize the problem is definitely with your husband. The main issue is for him to realize that, too, or I would have to agree with the other poster who said you're being emotionally abused. This behavior is just not okay.

Since it seems that he's a good husband in every other way than with this intimacy/physical issue, I would definitely give the homosexuality angle some thought.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sigh....the old "he must be gay"....again, this is what every HD wife with an LD husband hears.


----------



## Jen2013

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Faithful,
It happens all the time. Maybe not these days as much in the past, but there are definitely still people who get married and realize later that they're gay.

It's just another angle to consider.

His lack of interest in sex sounds to me more like a lack of interest in intimacy with her, pleasing her, and meeting her needs rather than a general lack of interest in sex. He seems all about her pleasuring him with not much reciprocity rather than he just has no interest in sex at all.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It has actually already been offered for consideration to Curious. He isn't gay.

He also isn't LD, she is just VERY HD.

I know it can happen...but IMO the world needs to adjust to the idea that some men just aren't as sexual as some women and stop trying to play the "he must be gay" card.

Nothing against you, though. Peace.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



lloyd said:


> I used to give that extra effort with the flirting and teasing and wanting more sex but after 13 years of her complaining telling me what I need to do all the time when there is a chance for sex I usually could care less anymore by that time.
> After awhile, you just kind of give up to the bad moods and complaining and being treated like one of the kids.
> *I still think about sex with her all the time* and I may want to have sex all day but then get home and her mood instantly takes all of that feeling away.


Well then tell her that every day. Just once a day, and try not to be angry. If you must, think of it as your taking revenge. You'll be showing her how much she's damaged her marriage, drip, drip, drip...day after day, month after month, year after year, like the Chinese Water Torture. Or, maybe you'll find a way to put a more positive spin on it, but keep telling her anyway.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't have a lot of time but I wanted to give a quick update.

To clear something up, he is 100% NOT gay. He is all American male, a manly man. That is not even on the radar. It actually makes me laugh a little. He works at a gun warehouse, just as a quick example.

As Faithful mentioned. He is not necessarily low drive. I mean, he likes sex a couple times a week. But he is still a LOT lower drive than me.

And frankly, I find it strange that he isn't always horny, and that being naked really doesn't have an affect on him. So I still say he is lower drive than the average male. But he isn't completely LD.

It's true what was said above. It's not a lack of sex that is his root problem. It's a lack of intimacy with me. He would gladly take a BJ nearly everyday, or a quickie. So it's not like he doesn't enjoy sexual things. He is just selfish, and doesn't have the interest in putting any effort in intimacy with me. He is fine if he doesn't have to do anything.

I worked myself up all day yesterday to have the talk with him. I was feeling confident and ready. When I got home from work at 8.30 he was already dozing off. He didn't mention anything sexual at all. Earlier that morning you could tell he was horny. So I'm positive he took care of his own needs while I was at work. He didn't look like he was in a talking mood, and we each did our own things for a while before he fell asleep without much talking of any sort. 

He is always tired. When he gets home from work the first thing he does is lay in bed. And he is always dozing off in the evenings. It makes me crazy when I am way busier than him, and have all my health problems, yet he is the one falling asleep at 8pm. Especially when we only see each other in the evenings, so it makes our time together pretty lame. 

Anyway, still haven't gotten to talk to him yet. I wish I could just hurry up and get it over with, but I haven't had a good time yet. Hopefully tonight. I think he knows something is stirring because he has been keeping his distance from me.

Faithful Wife, keeping myself satisfied has really helped me keep my sanity. Although I wish I didn't have to resort to that, it at least makes me not want to bite his head off every time he walks in the door. It's helping me keep the anger and hurt under control, because all my hormones aren't out of wack as well. Thank you for pushing me.


----------



## Sinchana

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

@tyler1978

We both are of age 28..


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well we made it through.  This is going to be long.

Last night he asked for a blow job. I told him no, I told him I think we should take a break for a while. He got defensive and said "oh sure. Take a break when it's my turn for blow jobs, but no breaks from rubbing." In which I told him I plan on taking a break from that too. He just got quiet and visibly upset. I asked him if he wanted to talk about it, and the reason and he said no.

So I let him be for a while, and we watched tv. I was worried he wouldn't let me even explain myself so I asked him if I could snuggle him. He said of course, that i never have to ask to snuggle him. That softened him up and he said let's talk about this.

I told him I was having trouble enjoying sex because there was some things that bothered me. I told him I didn't like how he always decided if and when we have sex. How I always had to ask before I made any initiation. To which I always get a "not now, maybe tomorrow, i'm tried, how about later, or after I'm done doing whatever..." So it always feels like he is putting it off because he doesn't really want to. 

I told him how I feel he takes advantage of the fact that I'm always ready. So he can put it off until later when he's in the mood because he knows I'll still be waiting.

I told him how it hurts my self confidence when he calls me smelly or says it's takes too long, or is too much work.

I told him I love giving him blow jobs, but I don't "owe" him anything. Your not suppose to have sex just to get something in return later. You do it out of love, and your suppose to enjoy it.

We also discussed how I always feel like I am dragging him into sex. How it makes me feel undesired when I practically have to beg him to do it, like a chore. He was adamant that we had, had more sex last month that normal and that we were improving. I had to explain to him that it wasn't the frequency that bothered me, it was the fact that he was never excited about it.

I got it all out there, and we discussed.

He said he was sorry that he always acted like he wasn't in the mood. He said it just takes him a while to get his motor running. He always has fun and enjoys it afterwards, but he says it's hard for him to start for some reason and he doesn't know why.

I think that's called responsive desire? Weird how I'm the woman who is always ready, and he needs to be romanced into it.

He asked if I could help him get into the mood more. Being more flirty, surprise him with lingerie... I told him I was scared to make any bold initiation because the last time I surprised him with lingerie I got shot down and that really hurt. 

He promised if I initiated like that again he wouldn't shoot me down.

He said he would try really hard to not be so "meh" about sex, and that I just had to be patient with him. He did mention that he had initiated a few times last month, to which I told him I was very happy with. 

In the end he offered to have sex with me. Which is quite something during period week. But I said no thanks, that I still needed some time and wanted to take a break for a while.

He made a valid point that how could he improve and work on things without practice, and being able to prove himself. 

By this time it was way late, and sex was just far gone. 

He didn't want to take a break but he said he would respect my wishes if that's what I wanted. He did want to romp around without clothes and make out a bit. I told him I did not want to get his hopes up, and he said he wouldn't pressure me. He just wanted some intimacy. 

I felt he was genuinely sorry, and he did understand what I was upset about. I think the fact that I was ready to take a sexual break made my point, he knows how much I love sex. I think continuing to deny would have been counteractive. 

So I offered a blow job and he looked pretty scared. It took me a great long while to convince him that I did love giving him blow jobs, and that I knew I didn't owe him one.  I think my talk made him think that I hated them, and he didn't want me to feel pressured that I "owe" him. 

So we only went 5 days without sexual contact. But things seem to be on the up and up.

If anything I feel more confident now, that if he does something again that bothers me I will address right away and let him know I don't like it. Without letting it build and build into the monster that we had.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I do want to mention that despite our sexual problems I feel like we work together really well.

We never really have "arguments." Yes, we get upset about things. But when we discuss, it's never heated, or yelling, or accusing. 

All of our serious discussions take place very calmly with him holding me in his arms, with frequent kisses and I love yous. 

Every time we talk about issues I feel so much better. My biggest problem is communicating why I'm upset. I need to work on that.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *Is telling him no about any sexual intimacy for a while the correct thing to do?*
> 
> How long should I refuse?
> 
> I'm confused if this is the next step I should take. Because talking is getting me no where.


Curious,
At this point, it's more a re-boot. Like you said.... sinking ship and waving your arms around.. because you cannot get him to do what you want, when you want. 

I know this is harsh. But he's right. You cannot make him have sex everyday. Is he LD? Maybe... compared to your drive. It seems like he IS compromising, somewhat. It's normal for people to enforce their boundaries as well. And it's hard to accept that, sometimes. They have the right to say no, or when enough is enough. 

I say this because I am like you  I have NEVER found a partner that could match 2x a day everyday. Going without for awhile is sometimes helpful. Lets you focus on what you are getting out of it, and why it makes you so anxious if you don't get it. This can be helpful, in the long run. Mentally, it can break your dependence on another person to "get what you need", somewhat. It's more about you, really. Helps turn the dynamics, which makes a HUGE difference overall. 

Long way of saying... eventually you get to the point where you kinda decide. If you are going to stay with your partner, you accept the compromise. (there needs to be a compromise for you to do this!) A compromise can include YOU satisfying some of your own needs. If you can't do that, you look for someone who better matches your needs. either one is a personal choice. Peace.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious:
You last update was very encouraging!

Often when I read contradictory things, I think I can see through to the correct picture, but I'm afraid for you, not so much.

I first though all you needed was to be more effective communicating.

Then I thought that was probably true,


TheCuriousWife said:


> It's like he just doesn't get it. ...he doesn't understand...


but some drastic attention getting steps were first going to be needed.

Focusing on


TheCuriousWife said:


> I think he is just selfish... He's not a cold hearted monster, even though it seems that way sometime.


I wondered if it might be a long painful road before there could be a loving, compassionate marriage.

Guess I'll move on to some other thread where I can better hope to come up with a helpful comment....

But your update sounds great!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No real update.

I've kept my cool and not gotten resentful or cranky. We've been snuggling more, and fooling around.

He did bring up last night that he'd like to have sex today if I don't get home from school too late. I'm still "on" so I'm surprised he doesn't want to wait until the all clear on Wednesday. But I'm glad he's trying. I doubt I'll get off before super late tonight or tomorrow. But maybe. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Could you two try sexting during the day to get his mind on the right track?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He can't text at work except for 30 minutes for lunch. But we can text during my school. I've tried it a little here and there and he just kind of laughs it off. Maybe I'm just bad at it?

If I knew how to do it better I might try again. But also I feel like that is pressuring him, and if I say something steamy and he laughs, or downplays it, or flat out says "no sex tonight." Then it's really a kick to the self esteem, and rejection again.

My wounded heart is pretty weary.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is a update I wish I didn't have. 

Things went badly last night. Please try not to hound me with "you should have known" or too much negativity. I'm already upset and I don't need anymore reason. 

Sunday husband mentioned that he wanted to have sex Monday after my school. I didn't get my hopes up, because I know how it usually goes. Well yesterday before school he was adamant that he wanted to have sex when I got home. We made out, and felt each other up, and got really worked up before I left. I thought things were really looking up. 

School got out even later than usual, but we were texting and I mentioned that it was okay if it was too late for sex tonight. He said no, and insisted that we could stay up one night. 

So I hurried home, letting myself get excited. When I got home he was sitting on the bed and he said "lets get this thing over with." I assumed he was joking, but he still shouldn't have put it that way since we JUST had the talk about how things like that make me feel. But I blew it off. I asked him if he was sure he didn't want to just wait until Wednesday and he said no he wanted to have sex. 

So I went and got cleaned up, literately grinning. (It's been 9 days remember.) I wrapped in a towel and came back and slid into bed naked with him. He was sitting with his arms crossed and his back against the wall. He didn't move, so I tried to kiss him. He just sat there and didn't kiss back or make any movement to touch me. I tried to pull his shirt off and he just shook his head and held it down. I thought he was just playing hard to get so I kept trying, trying to be seductive. After a few minutes I joking said, "We can't have sex with your clothes on." He just shook his head again. I fumbled awkwardly for a few more minutes with no response at all from him.

I stopped and rolled over and read a few pages out of a book to see if he'd come to me. Again no movement, no talking. So I got up with what little dignity I had left and went and put my clothes back on. Feeling like a fool.

He still didn't say anything, so I turned on the tv and sat there for a few minutes before I couldn't stand it. Then I got up and went and cried in the kitchen. 30 minutes later he came in there to see what I was doing. I wasn't ready to come to bed with him so I started cleaning the kitchen. And I guess he felt guilty at this point because he started helping me.

After the kitchen was clean I piddled around in the bathroom for a while until I ran out of things to do. Then I came to bed. I faced away from him and not a word was spoken between us. He rubbed my back for a few minutes before he fell asleep, then I pushed him away from me. 

I didn't fall asleep until after 2 am, I tossed and turned all night and got up several times and walked around and went outside. I had to get up for work this morning at 6am. While he was getting ready I didn't look at him. And still he said nothing except goodbye. 

I am just so shocked and confused. If he didn't want to have sex he should have just said it was too late, I wouldn't have minded. It wasn't even my idea. He was the one who asked, and insisted that we have sex last night. He got me all excited, and even told me to go wash up. Then 2 minutes later he just ignored me. :scratchhead:

It's bad enough being rejected, but I feel stupid that he waited until I was naked and vulnerable. I feel like an idiot for letting myself trust him again. How could he do this too me? What did I do? We just had a talk and things were on the up and up and now he has to pull this crap. Then he wonders why I won't surprise him with lingerie. There is no way in heck I'm going to put myself out there, if I get rejected even when it's his idea. 

I can't sleep, I can't eat. I feel like throwing up. I am literately sick with sadness. 

I won't see him probably at all today. We WILL be having a talk about this. And I'm not feeling very nice. Maybe i'll wait until tomorrow when he asks for a bj. Then i'll say, "sure honey" and wait until he is naked then just completely ignore him and walk off.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sounds like whatever happened to him happened between the time you last texted and the time you got home. 

I'm sorry, it sounds so mean and so emotionally abusive. This thing has been going on with you guys for long enough that he must have realized how his reaction was going to make you feel. He couldn't have been oblivious to what changing the course was going to do to you, and even if he was somewhat oblivious how you acted afterwards (not sleeping, walking around, not being able to share space with him) would have clued him in.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Sounds like whatever happened to him happened between the time you last texted and the time you got home.
> 
> I'm sorry, it sounds so mean and so emotionally abusive. This thing has been going on with you guys for long enough that he must have realized how his reaction was going to make you feel. He couldn't have been oblivious to what changing the course was going to do to you, and even if he was somewhat oblivious how you acted afterwards (not sleeping, walking around, not being able to share space with him) would have clued him in.


No he was still ready for sex when I got home. So whatever it is that changed happened in the 2 minutes I was cleaning up.

He KNEW I was hurt. As told by the helping me clean the kitchen and rubbing my back. It hurts me more than he didn't even have a reason, or at least tell me what bothered him, or why he wasn't in the mood. He completely just ignored me, and didn't say a word. He should have just said, "I'm sorry baby. Just not tonight." !!! Instead of just blowing me off and letting me get upset. 

It's like he did it on purpose. And I just don't understand why.

I feel like screaming at him and shaking him up and down right now and I'm not even a violent person. I can't keep taking this emotional abuse. And that's exactly what it is! It's hurting who I am as a person. 

It's probably a good thing we won't see each other today. I feel like I might do or say something I regret later.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It sounds to me like in a way he wants to want to have sex. As in he knows this is bothering you and he is afraid of losing you so he's trying to convince himself to have sex but then when it comes down to it he's just not into it. He definately has issues. If he's not willing to face them I don't see there is anything you can do to change things.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> It sounds to me like in a way he wants to want to have sex. As in he knows this is bothering you and he is afraid of losing you so he's trying to convince himself to have sex but then when it comes down to it he's just not into it. He definately has issues. If he's not willing to face them I don't see there is anything you can do to change things.


That's what I always think too. I feel like he doesn't really want to do it and he is forcing himself to appease me. But when I bring it up he denies it and tells me over and over that he really likes sex and it's not that way at all.

I just don't know what to believe or think anymore. I'm so mentally exhausted.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That's what I always think too. I feel like he doesn't really want to do it and he is forcing himself to appease me. But when I bring it up he denies it and tells me over and over that he really likes sex and it's not that way at all.
> 
> I just don't know what to believe or think anymore. I'm so mentally exhausted.


As a man, you will get your proverbial "man card" revoked if you were to admit that you were not into sex. One of our more/less endearing traits is our constant desire for sex. To say that you are not into would be to give up some of your masculinity. That is the social stigma. 

It is just an idea but maybe the teasing is a sign of that. It takes less effort to drum up interest for five minutes than to follow through with the real thing. If he teases you, that shows his manliness but then he does not have to go for the long haul. Hopefully that makes sense.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> Sorry to hear what happened last night, that sucks. What do you think would have happened if rather than get up and get dressed you had instead taken out a toy and started to take care of yourself?


I have no idea. I was in shock and not sure how to handle myself, I was hurt and angry. Sex was the last thing on my mind, I just wanted to get away from him and cry. He makes me feel so undesired and disgusting most of the time.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> As a man, you will get your proverbial "man card" revoked if you were to admit that you were not into sex. One of our more/less endearing traits is our constant desire for sex. To say that you are not into would be to give up some of your masculinity. That is the social stigma.
> 
> It is just an idea but maybe the teasing is a sign of that. It takes less effort to drum up interest for five minutes than to follow through with the real thing. If he teases you, that shows his manliness but then he does not have to go for the long haul. Hopefully that makes sense.


It does make sense. And I think there is some truth to this. 

I just don't understand how he can act like this one day, but tell me over and over he loves sex, and another day have a great time and really convince me.

I just wish I knew what to do. I wish I could read his mind and figure out what in the heck is going on in his head.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I wish I could read his mind and figure out what in the heck is going on in his head.


Sorry...but you can not "fix" him. You need to accept him as he is...or don't.


----------



## RedRose14

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't understand your husband's behaviour CuriousWife, he does seem very cruel and his rejections must be so hurtful to you. I guess it all boils down to how much you love him and whether you want to live your life this way, or whether you want to find a more sexually compatible partner.

I think Charlie's suggestion of getting out a vibrator and giving yourself a good seeing to right in front of his nose is a sound idea:smthumbup:


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We are in control of our actions. Talk is cheap. He can tell you he loves sex with you all he wants but his actions don't back it up. It sounds like he is able to convince you his actions mean otherwise so you question what you see and feel.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> We are in control of our actions. Talk is cheap. He can tell you he loves sex with you all he wants but his actions don't back it up. It sounds like he is able to convince you his actions mean otherwise so you question what you see and feel.


All true.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious Wife...You will have to really get it in your head and understand it...your husband just isn't that sexual.

Women who are LD and/or just not that sexual behave in the same strange ways...often teasing their man, liking sex in only a limited way that is only about themselves, acting immature, not being able to openly communicate. These same women have had the same talks that you have had with your husband and they give the same answers. "I am sorry, I didn't realize, I will try harder"...but their actions remain the same.

When people just aren't that sexual, they can enjoy sex sometimes, but usually they will struggle with intimacy. Having nice connected sex on a regular basis drives up intimacy, and typically this is the real thing they want to avoid.

There is no way to make them be "into" intimacy, same way there is no way to make someone be "into" sex if they just aren't.

He is who he is. He loves you. This is where you must really be strong within yourself and act maturely...because he isn't doing this to torture you...he is doing it because this is truly who he is. Just not that sexual and intimacy avoidant.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious Wife...You will have to really get it in your head and understand it...your husband just isn't that sexual.
> 
> Women who are LD and/or just not that sexual behave in the same strange ways...often teasing their man, liking sex in only a limited way that is only about themselves, acting immature, not being able to openly communicate. These same women have had the same talks that you have had with your husband and they give the same answers. "I am sorry, I didn't realize, I will try harder"...but their actions remain the same.
> 
> When people just aren't that sexual, they can enjoy sex sometimes, but usually they will struggle with intimacy. Having nice connected sex on a regular basis drives up intimacy, and typically this is the real thing they want to avoid.
> 
> There is no way to make them be "into" intimacy, same way there is no way to make someone be "into" sex if they just aren't.
> 
> He is who he is. He loves you. This is where you must really be strong within yourself and act maturely...because he isn't doing this to torture you...he is doing it because this is truly who he is. Just not that sexual and intimacy avoidant.



I know this. It's just so hard for me to accept it. I can't help but take it as a direct hit to my self esteem.

It makes me feel so bad about myself.

How can I not let it bother me? I need help for myself, if I can't help him.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When I got home he was sitting on the bed and he said "lets get this thing over with." 

Curious, this came out of my wife's mouth all to often, and was a mood killer for me too. It's not like I was selfish or anything, always willing to "feast at the Y" as "details" would say LOL, her first, and so on, but all in vain. In your situation however, he's average-to-LD and you are HD and it's not going to change. Maybe he's not into you, either way the "lets get this over with" is very rude and demeaning.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Definitely get help for yourself. Learn how to be self-validated.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't know if I'll ever be okay with it though. The only way for it to not bother me is if I distance myself. Because the only way it doesn't affect me is if I have a don't care attitude. 

But that attitude carries into all aspects of our marriage. Right now I have that attitude. We are barely speaking, I don't want to be around him, I don't really care what he does. 

It makes me cold, and unloving. I associate sex and intimacy with love. So if I have a don't care attitude about sex I find I have a don't care attitude about him in general. I don't want to be the cranky and cold wife. 

I just don't know how I am ever going to strike a balance. I admit I need and want his validation. I want him to love me, desire me, approve of me. He means so much to me, I just want him to love me the same way.

I'm not sure which one of us is messed up anymore.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What you are describing is the same thing that happens to men with wives who are intimacy avoidant or just not that sexual.

All I can say is, you have two choices: accept him AND be ok with it truly....or realize your resentment over time will just continue to grow and you will fall out of love with him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Maybe if he admitted he isn't as sexual it wouldn't bother me so much. But I always get conflicting information.

He is always making sexual jokes, or he'll tease me then later reject me. He talks like he is the sex king, and that we have more sex and better sex than anyone we know. He is all talk.

Or something that particularly bugs me is that he often talks about giving me oral such as making jokes about it, or saying how skilled he is, or whatever. But it's happened less an a half dozen times total. Yet he talks like it is a common occurrence, when in fact he's probably talked 50 times more about it than he has actually done it. 

He will claim up and down that he loves sex, and try his hardest to convince me as such. 

It constantly keeps me an emotional wreck, and I'm always changing my verdict on him because I tend to believe him when he tells me things. He always seems so sincere. Then later on his actions will be different then his words, and I never know what to think.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"Maybe if he admitted he isn't as sexual it wouldn't bother me so much."

People who are intimacy avoidant typically do not understand their own dynamics in this area and are not self-aware enough to say that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> What you are describing is the same thing that happens to men with wives who are intimacy avoidant or just not that sexual.
> 
> All I can say is, you have two choices: accept him AND be ok with it truly....or realize your resentment over time will just continue to grow and you will fall out of love with him.


I would love to accept it and be okay with it. I just want to be happy.

I can pretend I don't care, but I do!

Today I heard a love song about "how hot his women is", and I had to turn it off because it got me all upset again because it made me think, "why am I not hot enough? My husband would never think that about me... etc"

I'm scared if I chose to accept it, I will never really come to terms with it, and I will just be changing myself into something I don't want to be. With some false sense of happiness, and a smile plastered on my face as a lie. At the same time, loosing what makes me, me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It is a tough decision. Definitely find a counselor to discuss it with.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I would love to accept it and be okay with it. I just want to be happy.
> 
> I can pretend I don't care, but I do!
> 
> Today I heard a love song about "how hot his women is", and I had to turn it off because it got me all upset again because it made me think, "why am I not hot enough? My husband would never think that about me... etc"
> 
> I'm scared if I chose to accept it, I will never really come to terms with it, and I will just be changing myself into something I don't want to be. With some false sense of happiness, and a smile plastered on my face as a lie. At the same time, loosing what makes me, me.


Don't pretend or be ok with it. Here's why. Your resentment will build and you'll get short, irritated, and trigger all the time. Been there and got the merit badge myself. A song, a sex scene in a movie, passing a place where you maybe parked and made out or something....all trigger the temper. The LD is not self aware enough and this only drives them further away.
Faithful wife nailed it, you have a tough decision to make.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



badcompany said:


> Don't pretend or be ok with it. Here's why. Your resentment will build and you'll get short, irritated, and trigger all the time. Been there and got the merit badge myself. A song, a sex scene in a movie, passing a place where you maybe parked and made out or something....all trigger the temper. The LD is not self aware enough and this only drives them further away.
> Faithful wife nailed it, you have a tough decision to make.


I'm finding this more and more true as I go along. I can't help it, no matter where I go. I'm thinking, "aw look at that cute couple, I bet the thinks he is one lucky guy." or "I bet they have lots of sex." I find myself day dreaming about having my husband desire me and demanding sex. Even when I masturbate the only thing I think about is imagining my husband really desires me. It's kind of pathetic.

I do get jealous when I see steamy movies, or when my married friends are being all mushy. 

*sigh* I wish I could just inject my husband with some super strength viagra when he's sleeping.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,
What if there is a chance he wanted to have sex, worked himself up for it, but when the time came... realised "nothing was up" and froze? Meaning he couldn't follow through with his intentions... literally.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Deejov I don't think that was the problem. He hasn't had that problem before.

Besides he should have said something, instead of just flat out ignoring me obviously trying to be intimate with him after HE initiated.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We still haven't gotten to see each other but for 5 minutes.

I'm still only talking in short one word answers. He is giving me my space, which is easy because we haven't seen each other.

I can tell he feels bad. He bought me tickets to a concert I wanted to go to this weekend, and he mentioned wanting to pick up a sex book to "spice up our sex life." When I've been wanting to get one for a while now but he didn't want me too because "our sex life was fine and we didn't need any advice on how to improve it."

This morning as he walked out the door for work he said, "Sorry for being a poopoo head the other day."

If he thinks a quick apology, a book, and some concert tickets are going to make this problem disappear he is wrong. This is so not over.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm finding this more and more true as I go along. I can't help it, no matter where I go. I'm thinking, "aw look at that cute couple, I bet the thinks he is one lucky guy." or "I bet they have lots of sex." I find myself day dreaming about having my husband desire me and demanding sex. Even when I masturbate the only thing I think about is imagining my husband really desires me. It's kind of pathetic.
> 
> I do get jealous when I see steamy movies, or when my married friends are being all mushy.


Be careful of assuming the people you see around you have it better than you. Most people only show what they want others to see. 

Just think...anyone hearing your husband talk about oral sex with you probably assumes you're the luckiest woman alive...receiving oral sex all the time. 

Sometimes we try to measure our lives against what we think is going on with other people or what we see in the movies and it leaves us feeling inferior. The reality is what we're seeing is not always real.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

People who are intimacy avoidant typically believe that a band aid will cure everything, this is normal going along with everything else you've told us.

Try if you can to realize he doesn't know why he does these things. It isn't clear to him. He definitely doesn't do it to deliberately hurt you. He shields himself from intimacy and then shields himself from seeing the pain it causes you because he doesn't want to hurt either of you.

Also something occured to me...he may have body image issues? Is he a skinny guy? The thing about not letting you take his shirt off was a clue. Men suffer from body image problems just like women do, and sometimes it can shut down their desire to have partnered sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> People who are intimacy avoidant typically believe that a band aid will cure everything, this is normal going along with everything else you've told us.
> 
> Try if you can to realize he doesn't know why he does these things. It isn't clear to him. He definitely doesn't do it to deliberately hurt you. He shields himself from intimacy and then shields himself from seeing the pain it causes you because he doesn't want to hurt either of you.
> 
> Also something occured to me...he may have body image issues? Is he a skinny guy? The thing about not letting you take his shirt off was a clue. Men suffer from body image problems just like women do, and sometimes it can shut down their desire to have partnered sex.


Again you are right. It's just so hard to understand for me. And I'm not sure how to handle it. I know he doesn't hurt me on purpose, but I still can't help feeling hurt. 

I'm pretty sure he doesn't have body issues. He is not skinny, because he is built broad. But he is lean and muscular. He is smoking hot, and I tell him so often. He has less extra weight than I do, and I'm not fat by any means either.

He eats very healthy and works out a lot.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Maybe if he admitted he isn't as sexual it wouldn't bother me so much. But I always get conflicting information.
> 
> He is always making sexual jokes, or he'll tease me then later reject me. He talks like he is the sex king, and that we have more sex and better sex than anyone we know. He is all talk.
> 
> Or something that particularly bugs me is that he often talks about giving me oral such as making jokes about it, or saying how skilled he is, or whatever. But it's happened less an a half dozen times total. Yet he talks like it is a common occurrence, when in fact he's probably talked 50 times more about it than he has actually done it.
> 
> He will claim up and down that he loves sex, and try his hardest to convince me as such.
> 
> It constantly keeps me an emotional wreck, and I'm always changing my verdict on him because I tend to believe him when he tells me things. He always seems so sincere. Then later on his actions will be different then his words, and I never know what to think.


He might be doing that on purpose. I'd tell him, that your tired of his actions not matching up to his words, please spare you... Just don't say anything, do what you are going to do.

Keeping you scattered and an emotional trainwreck is a way of him being empowered around you. So your scattered, unsure on your feet, etc around him while he's sure, directing the sets with his lies and exaggerations.

Tell him to put his money where his mouth is or you don't want to hear it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ok Curious...about the body image stuff...must not be that.

It is still something within him that causes him to avoid intimacy.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's hard not to apply my own personal experiences here, so take this as "my personal experiences",

But for my H, it became a true sense of failure and shame. 
Shame that as a man, he couldn't "keep up" with my drive \ requests.

Failure because he couldn't MAKE himself do what he should --- have sex everyday.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Pondering so many people can't get a good read on Mr. and Mrs. Curious...


Faithful Wife said:


> Ok Curious...about the body image stuff...must not be that.





deejov said:


> It's hard not to apply my own personal experiences here...


It seems like most everyone posting is significantly older, maybe 20 or 30 years older, than the Curiouses. Not simply older, but I think so much more burnished by life. Is it hard to conceive of the motivations of someone so young and unburnished? One of my previous comments seemed so out of touch I deleted it.

By the way, lately I'm been up at night reading this site, because I'm just waiting for the time when I need to wake, toilet, clean up, and medicate my special needs 10 year old. Maybe things will improve, but my wife and I will quite possibly be dealing with these problems for the rest of our natural lives. Burnished.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It actually doesn't surprise me, it is not hard to conceive at all.

I have seen so many cases of male LD and female HD that I know it happens all the time. The various reasons a person (male or female) can be LD are the same reasons sometimes. I have known of several stories of young LD men and the main reason was body image issues. They didn't want to take their shirts off, because they felt either scrawny or fat. Women do this too, sometimes. So I just threw that one out there.

The whole issue, however, is not new or unusual...it is quite common. Yes, even in very young men.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I welcome any and all advice.  So don't worry about being "out of touch." I appreciate anything your willing to share.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Long post.... As usual. 

Wednesday we finally seen each other after 8pm, and we got to discuss what happened on Monday. 

He said he had a bad day and did want to have sex, but he was just being ornery about taking off his clothes, then when I got upset he didn't know what to do so he just kept quiet. :scratchhead: That seems like bull crap, he should have known better, especially since we had just had a discussion about his constant rejection and how low my self confidence has become just days before. But whatever.

He apologized over and over, and was very nice. He tried to get me to let him "prove himself." That he wouldn't reject me anymore, and that he wouldn't be so meh. But I told him I was scared, and that I loved him but I wasn't ready to trust him and get that vulnerable again yet. So we let it go and just snuggled and chatted.

Yesterday after work we talked some more and snuggled and I finally let him kiss me. He asked again, and I still had no desire at all to be intimate with him and I told him such. But after some coaxing I said I'd give it a try. 

I wasn't my normal amorous self. I didn't do anything frisky, or say much, but after nearly 2 weeks of no sex already I felt the longer we waited the harder it would be. 

He did give an honest effort. Instead of just laying there with his eyes closed. He talked, he asked me things, like if it felt good, he told me things like how beautiful my eyes were. He was gentle and slow. It felt like our first time all over again. 

Usually this time of month I'm really dry. But something weird happened. I think I may have squirted? I thought that was kind of fake, but after we were done I had soaked through a towel, the bed, and we were completely drenched like all the way up our stomachs and down to our knees. It was almost a puddle. He did a lot of playing with my G-spot so I guess it's possible. We had to shower afterwards and change the sheets. It was odd, and now Husband is calling me "old faithful." 

I started off pretty meh, but dang it felt good. Usually I'm not very sensitive at this time, but I guess the 2 weeks without gave me the female version of PE. 

He also thrusted a lot longer than usual. When he finished he was convulsing and breathing so hard I thought he was going to pass out.  Many times you can barely even tell he is having and orgasm he is so quiet and still. He sprawled out and had to pant for a minute, and said that was the strongest orgasm he has ever had. I'm guessing because of the extended period of foreplay and thrusting. 

Afterwards instead of him jumping up and running to pee and for a snack he laid in bed and held me for a few minutes. It was nice, and I was impressed that he remembered that was one of the things that bothered me because I haven't mentioned it in a while. That was the first time we snuggled after sex ... well ever.

Yesterday was nice, that's my dream sex right there. He was unselfish, and passionate, and so into it. I think he had fun too so I'm hoping he does it again.

Right now I'm still cautious. I'm scared in a couple days things will go right back to the usual rejection. I won't be initiating anytime soon, and frankly I'm still a little self conscious being naked around him. I really hope this means things will be better. But history doesn't lie, so I'm not expecting too much.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> It actually doesn't surprise me, it is not hard to conceive at all.
> ...
> I have seen so many cases of male LD...it is quite common. Yes, even in very young men.


Sure, but my point was for someone who's older (not personally you FW), and thinking of their your own, apparently common situation of a few years, or at least some time, of excellent sex, followed by years of decline, *but nevertheless retaining the loving memory of happier times*, well that's to be analyzed differently than problems with newlyweds, yes?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well we still don't see eye to eye about sex. We are still fighting about it. But at least we are communicating I guess.

On a happier note we had our first simultaneous orgasm last night. :smthumbup:


We were trying some different positions, which all failed. So we went back to our current favorite which is him rubbing while thrusting, usually from behind. But today I rolled over so we could kiss. That went on less than 5 minutes before I lost it, causing him to lose it. It was just an accident. It was fun, but I think I prefer to go one at a time. It's hard to enjoy mine, and his too at the same time.

It was so quick neither of us had enough time to build up our orgasms, so they were little baby ones, but it still felt good. I wonder why I've been so easy lately? It's not even horny week yet, Lord help us.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Quick update:

The other day I got home from school early. I smiled at him and came up behind him and flirted a little when I got home and he gave me the "oh no" look. Which I noted and communicated that I had seen that he didn't want to do it. 

He gave me the, "I'm really tired tonight... blah blah." So I mentioned that he is always tired, despite getting home at 5pm everyday and getting the rest of the evening to relax while I often work evenings as well as days, and also go to school until 11pm 2 nights a week and yet I'm still thinking about and in the mood for sex. But I told him I understand and that's it's okay we can wait for another day when he's more into it.

But as usual he felt bad, and then insisted we do it.

Of course it was the mechanical kiss for 2 minutes, then lay down beside him while he does manual on me with his eyes closed until I'm done. I let it go for a few minutes, but I was having trouble getting over when he was being so "corpse" so I tried to get him to kiss me or talk, or move, or let me do oral on him or anything, but he said, "I'm concentrating." 

Well I was taking a little longer than usual, because he seemed so uninterested and it was really dampening my spirits. Then right when I'm starting to pant he pulls away and says his wrist is cramping. He stretches it and I tell him if it's hurting too bad to continue we can stop, but he goes back to rubbing for about 2 minutes and I assumed he was going to finish the job, and I'm literately clawing and right at the edge and he just stops and pulls away and wants to have PIV.

I was so close I had to close my eyes and breath for a second because I was light headed. I should have said, "Hey, get back down here and finish what you started." But I was shocked and I didn't know if he was hurting or what and not thinking clearly, so he finished and we were done.

Afterwards I was still trembling from the rush, and still panting, and I tell him I was like 2 seconds away, and he's just like. "oops. I didn't know."

Gah. He never stops without asking first. He should have been able to tell I was close, this isn't our first time.

Usually not finishing wouldn't bother me this much, but I was RIGHT there. The contractions had already started and he just cut it off. My hormones wanted to kill him. I've never been that close, and didn't get to let it go. It felt weird letting it die down.

*sigh* such is life


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Friday he was really great and he tried for a long time, but for some reason again I couldn't orgasm. This time it was on me. 

I was beginning to wonder if I was broken.

Yesterday we were flirting a bit throughout the day, and he had to go somewhere in the evening. Before he left he was really trying to talk me into a quickie for him because he said "he needed" an orgasm. That stung a little since I hadn't had one in over a week. I told him I thought it was unfair to have a quickie when I was so crazy horny and hadn't had a release in so long. He left a little upset.

I'm reluctant to flirt or make out too much with him. Which is sad.  It makes me so aroused, and then I know he is going to ask for a quickie. And i will be left hanging. And I've told him over and over again if he asks for a quickie the day after we have sex I'm game, but if he waits until a couple days later and takes up our "normal" sex time it makes me upset because I already feel like 2 or 3 times a week is a compromise, and I'm not willing to give any up. 

When he got home I decided I was being unfair because he had tried to give me an orgasm last week but it just hadn't worked, so that wasn't his fault, and I told him we could have a quickie if he still wanted one. But by then he had changed his mind.

We had bought some new expensive lube to try out so that was fun, I was extremely tight for some reason, so we had some trouble getting and keeping him in because when I get aroused I squeeze him out of me. lol

But in the end I finally got sweet release, and he even tried to give me a second one. But that failed when I got close again, and my muscles contracted and he lost it. It was still fun for both of us.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's the low point of the month again. *sigh* We did have sex two days in a row this week, but neither time I could orgasm, nor yesterday when we tried. 

It's a mixture of close to period hormones, and a lack of enthusiasm on his part. As usual. 

It's a lose lose situation if I don't climax. Even though it stills feels good for me.

If we do a quickie then I'm loose and he doesn't feel much, I'm unsatisfied and he feels bad.

If we take a long time and try to get me there, I feel pressured, and after a long time of trying we give up, we're both frustrated, I'm loose, and it has lost it's appeal for him. 

All this on top of knowing I'm going to go another week without is always so depressing this time of month. I wish there was a way to fast forward this week.

Still haven't came up with a solution. I feel so horny and needy during this time, and he just isn't supportive which makes me resentful and upset, and then we just go in circles again. Same old story. 

Masturbating helps oh so slightly. But it's just not fun, and not what I crave. 

Wish me luck, just trying to keep my game face on and stay friendly this week.


----------



## missthelove2013

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> *You have a very sexual circle of friends. I haven't heard of many couples who have been together for any length of time who are having sex 1-7 times per day.*
> 
> In my early twenties I remember 5 times in a row over the course of a morning in bed. 25 years later that doesn't happen any more. Unless something triggers a sexual thought I don't really crave sex more than every second day.
> 
> My thoughts are you aren't going to successfully guilt him into sex. In fact any attempt down that road is more likely to put him on the defensive. I suggest you look for things that trigger him to get him in the mood..be it expressing fantasies...sleeping nude etc. Let him think it's his idea to initiate.


this!!!
My wifes best friend LOVES to tell all the girls that she has sex 2-3 times a week, oh he wants it more, but 2-3 is enough,,,unfortunately for her I am BEST friends with her husband and know the truth,,,they havent had sex in a year...she wants to project this perfect marriage persona and its just bull****

i have had sex with someone 5 times in one day...we were 21 and single...I doubt very much ANYONE married for 5-10 years are having sex every day, let alone 7 times a day...that sounds like made up horse ****...some people have unrealistic expectations about sex..,and the PRESSURE of it makes it worse
Id bet if he switched it up and initiated ALL the time, your drive would decrease and roles would reverse...

also...you want orgasms...good orgasms...and you want him to work 30+ minutes...and he can NOT do oral??? really??

Jeez honestly if I were the hubby, id let her go find a boy toy...too much pressure and it becomes a chore...and thats exactly what it sounds like to me...I know...my wife turned sex into a chore...and she is LD I am VERY HD...we havent done it in almost a year...and if not for porn and masturbation i would have probably cheated:scratchhead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



missthelove2013 said:


> this!!!
> My wifes best friend LOVES to tell all the girls that she has sex 2-3 times a week, oh he wants it more, but 2-3 is enough,,,unfortunately for her I am BEST friends with her husband and know the truth,,,they havent had sex in a year...she wants to project this perfect marriage persona and its just bull****
> 
> i have had sex with someone 5 times in one day...we were 21 and single...I doubt very much ANYONE married for 5-10 years are having sex every day, let alone 7 times a day...that sounds like made up horse ****...some people have unrealistic expectations about sex..,and the PRESSURE of it makes it worse
> Id bet if he switched it up and initiated ALL the time, your drive would decrease and roles would reverse...
> 
> also...you want orgasms...good orgasms...and you want him to work 30+ minutes...and he can NOT do oral??? really??
> 
> Jeez honestly if I were the hubby, id let her go find a boy toy...too much pressure and it becomes a chore...and thats exactly what it sounds like to me...I know...my wife turned sex into a chore...and she is LD I am VERY HD...we havent done it in almost a year...and if not for porn and masturbation i would have probably cheated:scratchhead:


Excuse me, I have no idea where your getting these impressions from, but let me clear some things up.

My friend who said they did it 7 times in one day was honest. And it wasn't a daily occurrence. It was a one or two time thing. They do have sex nearly once every day though.
I don't expect or want to have sex that many times a day. I just find it odd that my husband can't have sex more than once a day or even daily at all. It doesn't seem like it should take him 48 hours to recharge in his 20s. 

He doesn't have to work 30+ minutes. Our sexual sessions usually last 20 minutes from start to finish. And *HE* is the one who *won't *do oral. I give him oral nearly 100% we are intimate, I've have it less than I can count on one hand for less than 5 minutes each. That is his choice.


----------



## Mrs Chai

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My friend who said they did it 7 times in one day was honest. And it wasn't a daily occurrence. It was a one or two time thing. They do have sex nearly once every day though.
> I don't expect or want to have sex that many times a day. I just find it odd that my husband can't have sex more than once a day or even daily at all. It doesn't seem like it should take him 48 hours to recharge in his 20s.
> 
> He doesn't have to work 30+ minutes. Our sexual sessions usually last 20 minutes from start to finish. And *HE* is the one who *won't *do oral. I give him oral nearly 100% we are intimate, I've have it less than I can count on one hand for less than 5 minutes each. That is his choice.


Hello,

I read through this post and I have to say I can empathize with you on a lot of thoughts and feelings you experience when your husband is LD. 

I spent years in the beginning of our relationship and marriage putting up with essentially satisfying his physical needs whenever he would toss them to me. I think it took me three years before I said anything. And it took an additional two before anything really started to change, and now about a year and a half later I can see the 'old habits' creeping back in.

Communication is the big thing here. However, I'm noticing a pattern with your husband. Instead of taking on responsibility for his issue (whether it be low T or ED, etc) he immediately begins pinning the blame on you for your needs, your desires, which from what I'm getting off of your description, is less in his mind than his. (And how is that fair in any way? Last this was brought up it seems like he re-directed to some other 'fault' he viewed of yours and that was dropped like it was an okay way to view your needs. The ****?)

I think there is a respect issue here. A respect issue with yourself, because you are allowing him (the man who is suppose to cherish you like a princess) to treat you this way and second that he thinks it's appropriate to treat you this way along with your sex life.

It seems you'll make a little progress, before he regresses and it starts all over again. Though it does look like your confidence is building with every rejection, which is good, but a tough and long road to travel.

The best thing right now is to focus on you and your wants. I think it's time for you to be actually selfish. You have yet to display anything outside of a demand for a physical and emotional fulfillment that he doesn't seem capable (I do not believe this, but this is what he believes and is projecting on to you) but then accept anything less than what you set the bar to. Meaning, you'll have a quickie, when in reality you want something that might bring you to orgasm, you may want reciprocating oral - but it's too 'icky' for him and instead you give oral and get a couple grunting thrusts and that's the end. HE WILL DO THIS AS LONG AS HE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.

My understanding and sympathy lasted only so long when I started to feel like a fleshlight.

And I'm totally not okay with un-reciprocated oral. That is total bull****, I did that for years and it is NOT COOL. Stop that immediately.

I'm not 100% how old you are, but I'm guessing you are close to my age when I was dealing with this as well. It SUCKS. And I feel for you. It is NOT. YOU. It is HIM. Unfortunately you paired up with a male who will not meet your physical needs without effort and enthusiasm that must come from him and *him alone*.

But you cannot demand this and follow through with it, if you don't believe you deserve it. Because if you don't believe it, how can he? (Edit: wanted to add that this is something you have to work on constantly as well. It's easy to slip into complacency and 'feeling sorry for myself' then sitting around waiting for someone to change things in my life when it's only myself that can initiate that change!)

I've only skimmed those who've responded, but TAM has good people on it with decent advice. Keep coming back and writing it out, it's very therapeutic and feedback will help you keep your head straight.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How is 3 times a week low T or ED for a man?

OP's husband is lower drive than she is. It's a painful emotional thing for anyone to go through. Feel for you, Curious. Hope things are going well.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks for all the comments and well wishes!

Last night went badly. That's all I want to say about that right now.

I do think some people are missing the boat on what my main issues are though. At first I was unhappy about the frequency. But honestly I can compromise with that, and while 3 times a week isn't what I'd like, it is something that I can be okay with. I'm over that for the most part.

What *ISN'T* okay, is his general attitude towards sex. Flirting is little to none, if I try to text sexy things to him he doesn't response or just blows it off. I'm not allowed to touch or grope him unless we are having actual sex, so no "warming him up" which is bad, because he has responsive desire.

He doesn't initiate unless it's been a long time, and when he does it's usually for a quickie or a bj for him. If I initiate I usually get an eye roll, or a head shake, or he sticks his tongue out like he is exhausted. 

While he will have sex with me if I beg enough, (if it meets certain criteria of his, such as it's been 2 days... it's nighttime... etc.) he is rarely/never excited about sex, or passionate. It's always "let's get this thing over it." Our routine is always the same, and there is no praise or dirty talk or enthusiasm. 

I just want to feel like I'm desired and wanted. Nearly 100% of the time I just feel like he is putting his time in so I'll leave him alone. I don't want it to be like that. I want it to be fun and exciting for both of us.

We are in a deep rut, and I don't know how to get out. He seems content with our boring, and routine sex life but it's not fulfilling for me. 

I'll give an example. We are remodeling our house so we literately haven't had a living room or a couch since we've been married. We finally finished the living room and got a couch. So I suggested we have a little make out session on the couch, like we did when we were dating. Only this time it'd be better because we'd get to take it all the way. It sounded like great fun to me, dry humping and groping. 

But he nonchalantly just blew it off. "Nah. Maybe some other time. Let's just do it (_"get it over with"_) in bed."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mrs Chai said:


> And I'm totally not okay with un-reciprocated oral. That is total bull****, I did that for years and it is NOT COOL. Stop that immediately.


While I agree it's not okay. I feel like I need to choose my fights wisely. I've let the oral thing go because frankly I love giving him oral. And right now I'm already fighting a losing battle, trying to get him to enjoy sex more. If I make him do something he hates that will just make him avoid it even more, and make me feel even less desired. 

The last time he offered oral I fought it. After knowing his viewpoint and how he doesn't like it, I can't stand the thought of him being down there. All I can think about is how disgusting he thinks I am, and worrying about how I smell and taste. It's not even enjoyable any more. I'm not sure if I'll ever get that back. At first I was so excited and practically pushing his head down there, but I quickly lost that confidence and excitement.

That was ingrained when I just started getting sexual experience. That's the only opinion I know. 

It's a lose lose situation.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm very long winded today. Sorry! 

I'm ready to vent about last night.

I had a midterm at school. But I finished quickly and I came home more than 2 hours early. I texted husband and again mentioned making out on the couch. No response. 

I got home at 8.45 and he was playing video games. I sat for a few minutes and small talked to see if he would mentioned having sex because it's been a couple days and it was the last day before period week and I had gotten home so early. No dice.

So I asked him if it was okay if I went and cleaned up. He said yeah that's fine. I went and took a shower and came back. Getting excited that we were going to have sex. When I came back he was still playing video games so I just sat and waited. I kissed his neck a few times. After I while he stopped but then he put in a movie. 

By now it's been more than an *HOUR AND A HALF* since I got home. He mentioned kissing and he gave me a few pecks but by now I was in a foul mood and didn't respond. So he went back to watching his movie. Within minutes he was dozing off. So I got up and went to do other things. I came back said, "I guess it's too late to have sex now, huh?" and he said, "He had tried."

Yeah he tried 1 and a half hours after I got home early and took a shower and sat there waiting for him!!  This is what I'm talking about. He knows it's our last time, and I actually got home early, and he just ignored me. I don't always want to be the one who initiates and pursues. I stomped off mad and about to start crying. 

After a few minutes I decided I was being emotional and ridiculous and it was my fault that I didn't kiss back so I went back and asked him if he still wanted to have sex. He said it was kind of late but if I wanted too... (Again. It's always if I want to. It's never if he wants to.)

I told him if it's too late we can have a quickie. So we kissed like 3 times and he stood me over the couch and finished. It lasted less than 5 minutes, no words exchanged. 

That was the first time we have ever had sex where he didn't stimulate me with his hands in any way. He didn't even touch me. Usually even when we have quickies he at least rubs for a minute or two so I'm aroused and loose enough so it doesn't hurt when he enters. 

I decided whatever it was getting late and he has to get up early for work, so it was fine. But then he crawls into bed and plays video games for another hour and a half...

I can see where his priorities are. I'm pretty sure I don't even rank in his top ten even though he will tell me I'm #1.

I hate being the sour wife.  All my friends and family are always so happy and cheery, and it always seems like I'm cranky and upset about something. I wish I could just change my personality.


----------



## Mrs Chai

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Maybe you should start concerning yourself over quality versus quantity.

Meaning if you are not going to have a quality session of love time, it might be worth it to tell him, "Nah, nevermind. I'm not in the mood for a quickie." And stick with that. He reminds me of a toddler in the checkout lane whining for candy. Mom says no once, twice, but gives in after the third time or once he starts banging his head in protest against the handlebars.

I've heard that phrase before "You're always horny!" and I remember thinking, "Well, I'll take what I can get." but that get's old, especially after that same conversation happens over and over and then he starts to get sloppy and even more selfish (no foreplay? 5 minutes?!! He can spend an hour and half on his video game but he can't take 20 minutes out of his life to satisfy his wife?)

You might have to suffer a little bit and go without before he will take your needs and feelings seriously. Or he may never take either of these things into consideration, which is something that would be nice to know _now_, instead of 5, 10, 20 years down the road.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



deejov said:


> *How is 3 times a week low T or ED for a man?*
> 
> OP's husband is lower drive than she is. It's a painful emotional thing for anyone to go through. Feel for you, Curious. Hope things are going well.


It is possible...I am low T and have occasional ED issues. My STBW and I have sex 10-15 times a week.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mrs Chai said:


> Maybe you should start concerning yourself over quality versus quantity.
> 
> Meaning if you are not going to have a quality session of love time, it might be worth it to tell him, "Nah, nevermind. I'm not in the mood for a quickie." And stick with that. He reminds me of a toddler in the checkout lane whining for candy. Mom says no once, twice, but gives in after the third time or once he starts banging his head in protest against the handlebars.
> 
> I've heard that phrase before "You're always horny!" and I remember thinking, "Well, I'll take what I can get." but that get's old, especially after that same conversation happens over and over and then he starts to get sloppy and even more selfish (no foreplay? 5 minutes?!! He can spend an hour and half on his video game but he can't take 20 minutes out of his life to satisfy his wife?)
> 
> You might have to suffer a little bit and go without before he will take your needs and feelings seriously. Or he may never take either of these things into consideration, which is something that would be nice to know _now_, instead of 5, 10, 20 years down the road.


I've wanted to do this for a while. No sex is better than duty sex. But when it comes down to it, it's hard for me to say no. 

If I ask and I know he isn't interested and will do it but only half halfheartedly I think it would be good for me to said, "No never mind." And wait until he is actually going to put some effort in. But often times I can't help myself and I go along with it, then regret it later. 

I think I need to work on being more firm with my choices.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> It is possible...I am low T and have occasional ED issues. My STBW and I have sex 10-15 times a week.


How does 10-15 times a week make your brain feel?


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> How does 10-15 times a week make your brain feel?


Not quite sure what you mean...


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It concerns me how much your self esteem must be suffering - he has all the power it seems and you are forced to take what he will give, when he will give it and have to go through a big song and dance to not get what you want. 

It seems like he knows if he strings you out long enough he can get what he wants - which is to get off with little effort on his part. He just has to wait for you to lower your expectations enough to give him what he wants. And, since he has the power, it doesn't put him out to wait an hour or two to get it. 

He somehow makes it your fault and you seem to feel led to come back and apologize to him for not giving you what you want.

He tried. Whatever. Excuses, excuses!


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Not quite sure what you mean...


You have sexual engagements 10-15 times a week, some mild ED...

I was trying to get feedback that you feel almost 100% better, stressful circumstances do not bother you, etc...


----------



## Mrs Chai

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've let the oral thing go because frankly I love giving him oral. And right now I'm already fighting a losing battle, trying to get him to enjoy sex more. If I make him do something he hates that will just make him avoid it even more, and make me feel even less desired.
> 
> The last time he offered oral I fought it. After knowing his viewpoint and how he doesn't like it, I can't stand the thought of him being down there. All I can think about is how disgusting he thinks I am, and worrying about how I smell and taste. It's not even enjoyable any more. I'm not sure if I'll ever get that back. At first I was so excited and practically pushing his head down there, but I quickly lost that confidence and excitement.
> 
> That was ingrained when I just started getting sexual experience. That's the only opinion I know.


I went through the exact same thing. He told me it was gross tasting and he didn't like it. In fact, like you, in order to play I have to take a shower. I do not fully enjoy myself if I have not showered before sexytime. This is due to his complaining constantly about anything that 'bothered' him about sex. Whether it was taste or scent, it caused me to become an part of my 'foreplay' now. (Which ruins spontaneity)


I give fantastic oral and I enjoy giving oral, because I am fantastic at it!  He enjoys it, which makes me feel validated, sexy, and in-control. However, he should reciprocate. Maybe not every session, but he shouldn't _not_ touch your vagina. It's good enough for him to stick his **** in it, I don't see how it wouldn't be good enough for anything else (on top of the fact you shower before every playtime, so really, what kind of excuse is that in the end?)

So yes, I know how you feel. And he is wrong. You do not stink or taste bad, he's just not used to flavor. Probably because he never does it.

_Not that I think this is an issue_, but you can eat more fruit and green veggies to help with the 'flavor.' But this isn't a romantic novel. You will not taste like honey or vanilla because we are real people. And does his spunk really taste _that great either_? And yet here you are, sticking it out because you enjoy doing something that makes him feel good, loved, and sexy. Why is this so hard for him to do the same for you?

Because he has zero consequences. He just has to pout, whine, beg, and then essentially bully you into the sack to have mediocre sex and then he considers everything is now okay. He's ****ed you, that's what you wanted right?

He is not getting what you are asking even though from your previous posts you seem to have communicated it pretty clearly. So I can only take it that he just doesn't see the point in trying... because at the very worst you'll pout and leave him alone (what he wants) or he'll have to have sex with you to HIS COMPLETION in which you'll roll over, pout, and let him go to sleep sexually satisfied while you ache next to him. Yeesh, he should be embarrassed and emasculated, he can't properly satisfy his wife because he chooses not to. UGH.

I'm sorry, I get worked up over this sort of thing because I know how frustrating it is and I feel like I was in your shoes only 4 years ago and I just want you to be happy. Don't mind my rantings.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> It concerns me how much your self esteem must be suffering - he has all the power it seems and you are forced to take what he will give, when he will give it and have to go through a big song and dance to not get what you want.
> 
> It seems like he knows if he strings you out long enough he can get what he wants - which is to get off with little effort on his part. He just has to wait for you to lower your expectations enough to give him what he wants. And, since he has the power, it doesn't put him out to wait an hour or two to get it.
> 
> He somehow makes it your fault and you seem to feel led to come back and apologize to him for not giving you what you want.
> 
> He tried. Whatever. Excuses, excuses!



This is exactly how it is. He is the bouncer at the door who decides who gets in and when. 

He takes advantage, and doesn't mind making me wait an hour or days until he is done doing whatever else he feels is more important at the time.


----------



## Mrs Chai

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've wanted to do this for a while. No sex is better than duty sex. But when it comes down to it, it's hard for me to say no.
> 
> If I ask and I know he isn't interested and will do it but only half halfheartedly I think it would be good for me to said, "No never mind." And wait until he is actually going to put some effort in. But often times I can't help myself and I go along with it, then regret it later.
> 
> I think I need to work on being more firm with my choices.


This. I know this. I still do this to this day which is bad. I erased it in my earlier post but I had mentioned that reading your journal has made me realized how much I've slacked off on my quality sexytime versus my quantity sexytime. It's easy to slip back into old, lazy habits. But it has been something I've been noticing before this, hence why I was browsing Sex In Marriage forum in the first place. So it can get better, but it's something you have to work on, every day, all the time. BOTH of you.

I remember the first time I turned him down because I wanted quality sex. He fought a little bit (not nearly as bad as your hubby - your hubby's tactics tick me off) was a little incredulous, and for a moment I felt SO BAD. And almost relented looking at his pouting face, his sad eyes, and then I remembered to STOP THINKING OF HIM ALL THE TIME AND START THINKING OF MYSELF!! And you know what? He was fine. He wandered off to continue doing whatever he was doing, I felt a little bad but continued focusing on what I was doing (working on a new hobby I think, which helped not sitting around thinking about my ****ty sex life ;p) and the world kept spinning.

And that was the first step towards healing our sex life. Now it's decent, pretty good most of the time, awesome once in a great while. But again... took months! And I feel the biggest change started with changing myself: I had low self esteem (thinking: I'm not worth fighting for this, or why should I fight for this, aren't I enough motivation for him?) and agonizing and analyzing why he was this way when in reality the only change that prompted any movement forward was me standing up for myself and my wants. Consistency is key, with all things.

(Just wanted to add: Back when it was really bad, I was having sexytimes maybe once a week, or every other week. There were periods where we were having sex every day during our recovery, and it was good for both of us. And on a few occasions, sex more than once a day! Me standing my ground was the first step to this!)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mrs Chai said:


> So yes, I know how you feel. And he is wrong. You do not stink or taste bad, he's just not used to flavor. Probably because he never does it.
> 
> *I think so too. I think he doesn't like it because he thinks it smells funny and he is bad at it. But he won't get any better or get used to it until he starts doing it.*
> 
> _Not that I think this is an issue_, but you can eat more fruit and green veggies to help with the 'flavor.' But this isn't a romantic novel. You will not taste like honey or vanilla because we are real people. And does his spunk really taste _that great either_? And yet here you are, sticking it out because you enjoy doing something that makes him feel good, loved, and sexy. Why is this so hard for him to do the same for you?
> 
> *I think I will start taking some probiotics again. Just to make sure I smell and taste as good as I possibly can. *
> 
> He is not getting what you are asking even though from your previous posts you seem to have communicated it pretty clearly. So I can only take it that he just doesn't see the point in trying... because at the very worst you'll pout and leave him alone (what he wants) or he'll have to have sex with you to HIS COMPLETION in which you'll roll over, pout, and let him go to sleep sexually satisfied while you ache next to him. Yeesh, he should be embarrassed and emasculated, he can't properly satisfy his wife because he chooses not to. UGH.
> 
> *This is exactly what happens. He doesn't feel embarrassed because he hasn't had any experience prior to me or anyone to talk too, so he thinks, "this is what all guys do."
> 
> It's not like any of his friends know about our sex life, and if they did I'm pretty sure he wouldn't tell them that I'm the sexually aggressive one and that he doesn't satisfy me.*
> 
> I'm sorry, I get worked up over this sort of thing because I know how frustrating it is and I feel like I was in your shoes only 4 years ago and I just want you to be happy. Don't mind my rantings.


I really appreciate all your input, please feel free to "rant" as much as you like. It feel nice to get it out there and talk to other people, especially people who have went through it. It reassures me that I'm not just insane and being over dramatic.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Mrs. Chai thank you for sharing your story. It's given me hope and a new burst of self esteem that I need to stick up for myself.

I hope you continue to stick around and offer your advice!

Question... How do you handle period week? It's hard for me to stick up for myself, when all week I'll be giving unreciprocated blow jobs. I'm confused at how to proceed.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> You have sexual engagements 10-15 times a week, some mild ED...
> 
> I was trying to get feedback that you feel almost 100% better, stressful circumstances do not bother you, etc...




Ahh...got it. I let my ex wife be quite the gatekeeper for far too long, and it really messed with my sexual perceptions. When my STBW and I first started sleeping together, it was about a 50% failure rate for a couple of reasons. I had never experienced ED before in my life, and my STBW had never been with a man who couldn't get hard from the slightest breeze. The mental aspects hit really hard.

A bit of digging showed how complicated my situation was. I had elevated blood pressure due to stress, confidence issues, fatigue issues, and low T. THe kicker was, I still had desire, just my body didn't cooperate.

Once we hit a frequency of at least once a day, things got better as far as sheer numbers went, but I still failed, and still do fail about 1 out of 10-20 times. I suspect it is now at least partly becuase I am 41, low T and we do it so much.

I still have to work past the gatekeeping feeling some times though and realize that just because my STBW says she has a headache and didn't sleep well the night before in no way means no sex. One time in particualr absolutely floored me...we were having an argument, and in the middle of it, she looked at the clock and said it was getting late and we hadn't had sex yet, so lets have sex and finish arguing later. So I would have to say that the ED is mainly triggered now by things that could be perceived as her not being in the mood, though she always is.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Ahh...got it. I let my ex wife be quite the gatekeeper for far too long, and it really messed with my sexual perceptions. When my STBW and I first started sleeping together, it was about a 50% failure rate for a couple of reasons. I had never experienced ED before in my life, and my STBW had never been with a man who couldn't get hard from the slightest breeze. The mental aspects hit really hard.
> 
> A bit of digging showed how complicated my situation was. I had elevated blood pressure due to stress, confidence issues, fatigue issues, and low T. THe kicker was, I still had desire, just my body didn't cooperate.
> 
> Once we hit a frequency of at least once a day, things got better as far as sheer numbers went, but I still failed, and still do fail about 1 out of 10-20 times. I suspect it is now at least partly becuase I am 41, low T and we do it so much.
> 
> I still have to work past the gatekeeping feeling some times though and realize that just because my STBW says she has a headache and didn't sleep well the night before in no way means no sex. One time in particualr absolutely floored me...we were having an argument, and in the middle of it, she looked at the clock and said it was getting late and we hadn't had sex yet, so lets have sex and finish arguing later. So I would have to say that the ED is mainly triggered now by things that could be perceived as her not being in the mood, though she always is.


Sounds like your old relationship did you in and you are still paying for some of the mental repurcusions.

Imagine if you will that your subconscious has been reprogrammed by the ex, that there are small reactions that you don't percieve in which you are already "beaten". If you can fix that up.

I think part of your solution would be current STBW giving you periods of time where you can take it at will, some guideline for knowing when you won't be turned down, and she will go with it for the case of strengthening your mind.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Mrs. Chai thank you for sharing your story. It's given me hope and a new burst of self esteem that I need to stick up for myself.
> 
> I hope you continue to stick around and offer your advice!
> 
> Question... How do you handle period week? It's hard for me to stick up for myself, when all week I'll be giving reciprocated blow jobs. I'm confused at how to proceed.


Warning...a very blunt reply is coming...

I have followed your story here from the beginning, and it is just so horrible seeing what you are going through, but quite honestly, I think much of it, you are bringing on yourself. Many other posters have said the same thing.

The only one responsible for unreciporicated anything is you, not him. The only one for you to blame is you. I think you have a very sexually selfish and lazy husband, and I think you know I am right. As long as you enable this behaviour, it will not change. You have done a good job of rationalizing your constant giving in to him, and why you need to, but ultimately, it just that...rationalization. There is no reason you need to tolerate his behaviour, let alone reward it. There just isn't


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Mrs. Chai thank you for sharing your story. It's given me hope and a new burst of self esteem that I need to stick up for myself.
> 
> I hope you continue to stick around and offer your advice!
> 
> Question... How do you handle period week? It's hard for me to stick up for myself, when all week I'll be giving reciprocated blow jobs. I'm confused at how to proceed.


Just keep doing that and stay out of TAM.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> Sounds like your old relationship did you in and you are still paying for some of the mental repurcusions.
> 
> Imagine if you will that your subconscious has been reprogrammed by the ex, that there are small reactions that you don't percieve in which you are already "beaten". If you can fix that up.
> 
> I think part of your solution would be current STBW giving you periods of time where you can take it at will, some guideline for knowing when you won't be turned down, and she will go with it for the case of strengthening your mind.


I think you are spot on here, and the further removed from my former marriage I get, the more little mental things come to the surface. Fortunately, I have a very supportive woman who is doing a great job showing me how things should work. It works wonders knowing that she is so into me, all I have to do is tell her to get naked, and the clothes are off before the words are out of my mouth. I have no doubts that the triggers will continue to ease with time, until hopefully they are gone all together.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Warning...a very blunt reply is coming...
> 
> I have followed your story here from the beginning, and it is just so horrible seeing what you are going through, but quite honestly, I think much of it, you are bringing on yourself. Many other posters have said the same thing.
> 
> The only one responsible for unreciporicated anything is you, not him. The only one for you to blame is you. I think you have a very sexually selfish and lazy husband, and I think you know I am right. As long as you enable this behaviour, it will not change. You have done a good job of rationalizing your constant giving in to him, and why you need to, but ultimately, it just that...rationalization. There is no reason you need to tolerate his behaviour, let alone reward it. There just isn't


I agree he is a selfish and lazy lover. I also know I am an enabler. 

I don't want to be. But when he is telling me one thing and TAM is telling me another I get so darn confused on what I should or shouldn't be doing. It's hard to make good choices in the moment.

I'm also a push over.

I wish I had a TAM member follow me around 24/7 and help me know what to do and how to respond in real life. I get such good advice here but I have trouble applying it.

I've done and dug myself into this hole. Now I need help and advice on how to quit being an enabler. 

Ps. I read everyone of your posts, and I highly respect your advice. I'm also so happy for you that you found that special someone! I've been rooting for you all along! Congratz!


----------



## Mrs Chai

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Mrs. Chai thank you for sharing your story. It's given me hope and a new burst of self esteem that I need to stick up for myself.
> 
> I hope you continue to stick around and offer your advice!
> 
> Question... How do you handle period week? It's hard for me to stick up for myself, when all week I'll be giving reciprocated blow jobs. I'm confused at how to proceed.



Oh man, well my husband and I have only ever had sex with each other. We were virgins when we started dating, so my first experience of having sex while on my period was the WORST.

We were gettin' down and dirty, before we were married and before his LD became an issue (I don't know why LD men have no problem with sex when you're dating but as soon as you're married it's an issue. I think they feel they don't have to work as hard?). Little did I know, I had started my period (early!) so when we started to have sex, he noticed a change in the 'consistency' down there and paused to check it out. 

He literally LEAPED out of the bed and ran into the bathroom because he was sooo freaked out at the sight of blood (fun fact, there is less blood in your period than you or he think) and man did that scar the heck out of me there on out.

Jump the present, he and I will still have sexytime during my period, but there was a few years there where he refused to touch me and I refused him because I was so traumatized by his overreaction. What a baby. Hah! But we were both young and inexperienced, and didn't know any better or how to deal with it.

During the 'Don't Touch Me Phase' I didn't have any sex or oral. Which killed, and didn't' last long with my HD. Period time for me is my horny time though. He can always tell when I'm on my period because I get more touchy feely (read: needy) than I normally am. Of course he'd be on board till he find out I'm bleeding, then he'd drag his feet.

We worked out a compromise by having sex in the shower. Which helped because I have that complex about being 'clean' before sexytime anyway. Plus it cleaned up any of the mess if any at all. If he wasn't in the mood to get me off, a lot of times, he would not get off either unless it was masturbation. I did not request this, this was something he felt was 'fair' for the situation. While it seemed like it would work, it actually just helped the habit of him going days without sex. And he would self-pleasure himself more, meaning his libido would be even lower, which would leave me high and... well wet with no relief in sight.

How did I deal with it? In suffering silence. For years.

Eventually, I asked him to have sex with me on my period. When he turned me down, I told him how it made me feel unloved, and I felt he was not being fair. That it was just fluid and it's not like I was dirty or less of his wife for experiencing something I have absolutely no control over. And that him not having sex with me was punishing me and dividing us.

He seemed really surprised to hear that I felt that way.

I never had to deal with my husband asking me to give him a blowjob and him do nothing for me. He seemed to know that if he were going to initiate anything with me (I established early that I had a HD), he would have to deliver at the very least manual stimulation if not actual sex (back then it was just the act of intimacy, I didn't start orgasming until after we were married for about 2 years ((a catalyst for this healing as well)), I've been with him for 6). So he has never asked me to just pleasure him and him alone.

While both of you don't have to get off every single time you're together, he should be considerate of the fact that if you are performing a sexual act on him you are going to get aroused. And he needs to take care of you after _most of the time_. Unless he's really sick and you're giving him head to make him feel better. (I'll give you a pass for that) If he doesn't want to use his hands, get a toy. And he uses the toy on you, not you use the toy by yourself after he blows his load and goes and gets on his video game!

Your husband has so many bad habits ingrained into his sex life, he needs complete retraining on how he approaches and thinks about sex with you. But you need to re-think how your sex life is with him. You are trying way to hard to make changes that only he can make. You need to take a step back and accept that you might have to suffer and masturbate for a bit for satisfaction so you don't crumble under the slightest bit of relenting from your husband (who uses sex with you like a weapon). The reason you give in is because you want that sexual release (along with the connection, sure) but the possibility of release makes it harder for you say no if he talks a big talk only to slack off at the last second (because why would he expect any different if you've always gone along with it before?)

I know you said you weren't too into masturbation in an earlier post. I was not either in the beginning. It does feel different (and better) when your hubby does it for you, but it can be really good if you do it yourself. And if you don't have a toy, get one. Get one with a clitoral simulator and you will be a much happier woman who doesn't have to take whatever scraps her husband throws at her with his ****ty bedroom performance.

This will help with the standing your ground on your needs. Letting yourself remain sexually frustrated while dealing with this will not help you. It might even make finding an outside partner look more appealing. Sexual frustration can be dangerous for a marriage! However, don't run and tell him you're going to find a boinking partner because he can't step up, that won't help anyone!

Ugh went off on a tangent again. Sorry.

So with period sex now, I suggest the shower. WITH foreplay. And in your case, mutual orgasms (not simultaneous!) as he's a selfish prick by the sounds of it right now and owes you that. Tit for tat!

If he asks for a blow job, ask "And for me?" and if he doesn't answer or gives you a ****ty response, smile and tell him "No thanks, maybe another time." and then go do something you enjoy with or without him.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree he is a selfish and lazy lover. I also know I am an enabler.
> 
> I don't want to be. But when he is telling me one thing and TAM is telling me another I get so darn confused on what I should or shouldn't be doing. It's hard to make good choices in the moment.
> 
> I'm also a push over.
> 
> I wish I had a TAM member follow me around 24/7 and help me know what to do and how to respond in real life. I get such good advice here but I have trouble applying it.
> 
> I've done and dug myself into this hole. Now I need help and advice on how to quit being an enabler.
> 
> Ps. I read everyone of your posts, and I highly respect your advice. I'm also so happy for you that you found that special someone! I've been rooting for you all along! Congratz!


Have you ever tried to break an addiction? That is exactly what you need to do now. You need to recognize the behavior in yourself, and modify it. Break the habit. Identify situations where you are likely to give in, to enable. Avoid those situations. Break the habit. Do not agree to quickies and unreciporicated oral, and don't give in. Break the habit.

It is going to be hard at first. Very hard. One day at a time, one minute at a time. When you feel the urge to give in, ride it out. Think about the next moment, and then the next, and then the next, until you are past it. It will get easier with time.

Thanks for the congrats...I am a very lucky man  And I appreciate your respect. If you've been reading my posts, you know I'm not always on the mark, but I really thing you know what you need to do here, and myself, and a whole lot of other people are pulling for you, and supporting you. You can do this. You can be strong enough to get not only what you want, but what you freakin' deserve!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think I have addressed it recently but I am masturbating now. I wish it wasn't so, but desperate times call for desperate measures. That does help me be able to say no.

My husband is also disgusted by blood and will NOT do anything sexual with me during my period. No shower sex, no manual with a tampon in, zilch. 

My main question if I know he will not give me any satisfaction this week, should I give him blow jobs? 

He always says, "he deserves this week to himself." For all the time he has put in giving me orgasms through the month. And part of me doesn't mind giving him the blow jobs.

But at the same time, no matter how much I beg this week he completely ignores my needs.

Am I being a doormat by giving him blow jobs? I always assumed most women did this for their man. 

I'm still confused on if I should or shouldn't be giving him blow jobs if I know he won't reciprocate.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I keep hearing people say no quickies and no unreciprocated oral. 

Does that mean we should never have a quickie, or I should never give him oral without a return? That seems unfair. 

I'm pretty positive nearly every TAM member has quickies and gives oral sometimes without expecting something back. What is the limit? What is the conditions. I just don't get what makes it okay or not.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think I have addressed it recently but I am masturbating now. I wish it wasn't so, but desperate times call for desperate measures. That does help me be able to say no.
> 
> My husband is also disgusted by blood and will NOT do anything sexual with me during my period. No shower sex, no manual with a tampon in, zilch.
> 
> My main question if I know he will not give me any satisfaction this week, should I give him blow jobs?
> 
> He always says, "he deserves this week to himself." For all the time he has put in giving me orgasms through the month. And part of me doesn't mind giving him the blow jobs.
> 
> But at the same time, no matter how much I beg this week he completely ignores my needs.
> 
> *Am I being a doormat by giving him blow jobs? I always assumed most women did this for their man. *
> 
> I'm still confused on if I should or shouldn't be giving him blow jobs if I know he won't reciprocate.


Just as he has always assumed he is acting like how most other men act?

No. No bj's during period week. If things were better, if he tried outside of it, sure maybe so. If you felt like he actually cared about your satisfaction, then sure why not. But he doesn't and that crap about period week being his time? Yeah, maybe if there was at least equal reciporication the rest of the time.

My STBW is on the depo shot so she has maybe one day of light bleeding every couple of months, so it's not really an issue for us, but period sex is no bother for me. Manual, no problems then either, though I'd prefer without the tampon in.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I keep hearing people say no quickies and no unreciprocated oral.
> 
> Does that mean we should never have a quickie, or I should never give him oral without a return? That seems unfair.
> 
> I'm pretty positive nearly every TAM member has quickies and gives oral sometimes without expecting something back. What is the limit? What is the conditions. I just don't get what makes it okay or not.


The thing is, YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING BACK AT ALL!

Hell no it's not unfair! Yeah, my STBW and I have quickies, and unreciporicated oral...we BOTH do. There is nothing one sided about our sex life AT ALL!

The people here who do those things have a balanced sex life. You don't. There is no balance in your sex life. You are not his equal by your own actions and choices.

Seriously, if you are not willing to stand up and force some of these changes, I really have to wonder if you really do have an issue with this, or if it really bothers you at all.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> The thing is, YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING BACK AT ALL!
> 
> Hell no it's not unfair! Yeah, my STBW and I have quickies, and unreciporicated oral...we BOTH do. There is nothing one sided about our sex life AT ALL!
> 
> The people here who do those things have a balanced sex life. You don't. There is no balance in your sex life. You are not his equal by your own actions and choices.
> 
> Seriously, if you are not willing to stand up and force some of these changes, I really have to wonder if you really do have an issue with this, or if it really bothers you at all.


Your explanation post above this one has been the best answer I've ever gotten. That is exactly what I needed. When it is and isn't okay for one sided intimacy.

Thank you!

Now my other question is if I take blow jobs off the table. What exactly should I be waiting for to start letting quickies and blow jobs back in. I do love giving him blow jobs, and I think I'm going to miss them as much as he will. 

What signs and changes in his personality should I be looking for. Because he tells me different things then his actions show.

It might seem simple to you, but we've been like this for so long, I'm truly unsure what a balanced sex life looks like now. 

I don't even know what I'm trying to achieve sometimes, because I know our sex life isn't right. But I don't know how it should be.


----------



## Mrs Chai

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Just as he has always assumed he is acting like how most other men act?
> 
> No. No bj's during period week. If things were better, if he tried outside of it, sure maybe so. If you felt like he actually cared about your satisfaction, then sure why not. But he doesn't and that crap about period week being his time? Yeah, maybe if there was at least equal reciporication the rest of the time.
> 
> My STBW is on the depo shot so she has maybe one day of light bleeding every couple of months, so it's not really an issue for us, but period sex is no bother for me. Manual, no problems then either, though I'd prefer without the tampon in.


This, a thousand times this!!!

And you'll know he's changed when his ACTIONS also reflect what his WORDS are. Sounds like he blows a lot of smoke up your ass about this. Hence the saying, actions are louder than words.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Your explanation post above this one has been the best answer I've ever gotten. That is exactly what I needed. When it is and isn't okay for one sided intimacy.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> *Now my other question is if I take blow jobs off the table. What exactly should I be waiting for to start letting quickies and blow jobs back in. I do love giving him blow jobs, and I think I'm going to miss them as much as he will.
> 
> What signs and changes in his personality should I be looking for. Because he tells me different things then his actions show.*
> 
> It might seem simple to you, but we've been like this for so long, I'm truly unsure what a balanced sex life looks like now.
> 
> I don't even know what I'm trying to achieve sometimes, because I know our sex life isn't right. But I don't know how it should be.


Those are the million dollar questions that really, only you can answer. You will know it's balanced when it feels balanced.

There are a couple of different directions you could go with this. You could go one for one meaning if you have a session that fulfills YOUR needs, goes the way you want it to and leaves you feeling satisifed, not in the moment, but say the middle of the next day, then maybe open things up for something satisfying for him.

THe other direction, one I would me more inclined to do is change the long term pattern of behaviour. Go for a while with several sessions that meet your needs, again, not in the moment, but after the afterglow has worn off. Look for changes in his attitude. Is he more attentive, or is he turning into a whiny little b1tch?

If he calls you selfish or things like that, in either case above, then you know exactly where his mind is. He is trying to shame you into getting what he wants and does not care about your desires.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I will keep a look out for all these things. Good advice.

The other thing I worry about is that is I "demand" these things or will only have sex with him when such and such conditions are met aren't I essentially doing the same thing as him, and being a selfish lover?

That is probably what I struggle with the most. Especially since he often calls me selfish if I protest a blow job or a quickie. How can I make sure my needs get met, and that my opinion matters without in turn being selfish... I think there is a fine line.

But for a while, I think what I need is to be selfish. Until we can find a place we are both happy with. 

Things need to change.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will keep a look out for all these things. Good advice.
> 
> The other thing I worry about is that is I "demand" these things or will only have sex with him when such and such conditions are met aren't I essentially doing the same thing as him, and being a selfish lover?
> 
> That is probably what I struggle with the most. Especially since he often calls me selfish if I protest a blow job or a quickie. How can I make sure my needs get met, and that my opinion matters without in turn being selfish... I think there is a fine line.
> 
> But for a while, I think what I need is to be selfish. Until we can find a place we are both happy with.
> 
> Things need to change.


Would you call your vibrator selfish if it didn't work the way you needed it to?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It seems he lacks empathy. From what you describe he's never had to know what it is like to want a person/intimacy/sex and not have it. He gets what he wants and needs very easily. Either he's a total **** (if he has empathy for how his actions make you feel) or he's clueless to how it feels to have needs and wants that are not met. 

Maybe he needs to know how it feels. I don't know if you've been following Songs About Jane but that poor guy has held out for weeks of no sex and his wife does seem to be noticing. It's a temporary solution. A few weeks or a month without sex isn't fatal and if it gets your point across you won't have to do it again.

And really, I faced the same blow job dilemma you did - because my H didn't for 18 years but I liked giving him oral and so I continued. Looking back I should have never done that. He went on his clueless way getting 100% of the sex he wanted and needed and I don't think he once thought about how it felt to be me because I never raised the issue. 

Except when it finally came up I told him - honestly you would have been getting 10x more BJ than you've gotten but you never reciprocated. 

Now that he is reciprocating I have stepped up the action.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OP,
I used this "weigh" method:
If you feel used, upset, angry, unloved, unwanted, not desired... then you are giving MORE than you are getting.

A boundary would be to never do that.

But matching your level of attachment to theirs (in actions) is one way to reset the balance. Not words, or threats. Actions.

It's normal to want to "Fix" it when you don't feel wanted, loved. That's the other part of the imbalance. What do you need to fix? 

-Feeling unloved, unwanted, undesired
or
-Fixing it so he does things so you don't feel unloved, unwanted, undesired

You may never "fix" it so that he does exactly what you want. But maybe you don't need to fix it. More, accept that is how it is. You will be not happy at times. It can't be helped.

What can be helped? Owning 50% of feeling loved, wanted. Not waiting around for him to do it for you. Huge empowerment. 

Which circles back to not giving more than you are getting. That is an act of love, for yourself.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I did something bad. *hides under table*

I gave him a blow job on Friday. I know I shouldn't have and he didn't ask. But I was cramping and hurting and in no mood to have sex. But I reasoned that just because I wasn't in the mood didn't mean he wasn't. I decided it was okay, because I honestly didn't want anything back.

Since then he's hinted around a bit that a blow job would be nice. I told him what about me. And he said he would have sex if we could. To which I replied "We can. You just don't want to."
Then we had the whole discussion about my needs are important too again. 

He hasn't asked since, I'm assuming because he knows it wouldn't be fair to not return the favor and it's not worth it to him.

I'll admit I got a little desperate on Saturday and I asked. Of course he said no. Thankfully I didn't beg, I just let it go and kept busy with other things. Later I guess he felt guilty and he said, "we could do it if you want to..." I told him no thanks.

It's not even worth having sex if he's not into it anymore. I'm proud that I was able to think it over and say no. It's hard for me to turn down sex. 

This week several times he has dominated me, and pinned me down and we have made out. He has also been flirting with me, and allowing me to touch him more than normal. I've been pushing his boundaries a little, until he seems to notice he has let his guard down and puts a stop to it. It's been fun.

He's been more into intimacy this week then he has in a long time. I'm guessing because I'm being hard to get and for some reason that turns him on, and also because he's gotten only one orgasm this week.

Last night I was kind of hoping he would initiate. We were home together after 7.30 which is rare. He was playing video games and watching tv on the couch when I got home from work, and I sat down and snuggled him and played around a little with my feet. 

He didn't bite, and I started falling asleep around 9.30. So finally I got up around 10.30 and went to bed. It was so early, but I was bored and I knew he wouldn't initiate that late. 

I didn't ask, so at least I'm holding a little of my self respect. 

The next two days I have class until 11pm unless I happen to get home early. (rare) Then Wednesday I work until the evening. So we'll see happens. I'm not sure how to handle his advances right now. It might be worth it to continue playing hard to get for a while.

But I don't want to start any fights this week. Our anniversary is Sunday. And we are getting a hotel Friday night. We had planned on camping all weekend but I think it will be too cold. So I'm not sure what our plans are now. But I'm hoping for some good sex this weekend.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I did something bad. *hides under table*
> 
> I gave him a blow job on Friday. I know I shouldn't have and he didn't ask. But I was cramping and hurting and in no mood to have sex. But I reasoned that just because I wasn't in the mood didn't mean he wasn't. I decided it was okay, because I honestly didn't want anything back.
> 
> Since then he's hinted around a bit that a blow job would be nice. I told him what about me. And he said he would have sex if we could. To which I replied "We can. You just don't want to."
> Then we had the whole discussion about my needs are important too again.
> 
> He hasn't asked since, I'm assuming because he knows it wouldn't be fair to not return the favor and it's not worth it to him.
> 
> I'll admit I got a little desperate on Saturday and I asked. Of course he said no. Thankfully I didn't beg, I just let it go and kept busy with other things. Later I guess he felt guilty and he said, "we could do it if you want to..." I told him no thanks.
> 
> It's not even worth having sex if he's not into it anymore. I'm proud that I was able to think it over and say no. It's hard for me to turn down sex.
> 
> *This week several times he has dominated me, and pinned me down and we have made out. He has also been flirting with me, and allowing me to touch him more than normal. I've been pushing his boundaries a little, until he seems to notice he has let his guard down and puts a stop to it. It's been fun.*
> 
> He's been more into intimacy this week then he has in a long time. I'm guessing because I'm being hard to get and for some reason that turns him on, and also because he's gotten only one orgasm this week.
> 
> Last night I was kind of hoping he would initiate. We were home together after 7.30 which is rare. He was playing video games and watching tv on the couch when I got home from work, and I sat down and snuggled him and played around a little with my feet.
> 
> He didn't bite, and I started falling asleep around 9.30. So finally I got up around 10.30 and went to bed. It was so early, but I was bored and I knew he wouldn't initiate that late.
> 
> I didn't ask, so at least I'm holding a little of my self respect.
> 
> The next two days I have class until 11pm unless I happen to get home early. (rare) Then Wednesday I work until the evening. So we'll see happens. I'm not sure how to handle his advances right now. It might be worth it to continue playing hard to get for a while.
> 
> But I don't want to start any fights this week. Our anniversary is Sunday. And we are getting a hotel Friday night. We had planned on camping all weekend but I think it will be too cold. So I'm not sure what our plans are now. But I'm hoping for some good sex this weekend.


I guess the cynic in me sees this is a complete manipulation tactic. He knows that you will get hot and bothered and get you to give in just to get your crumb while he gets what he wants. The fact that he started this but didn't finish says to me that he really had no interest in actually putting forth real effort in satisfying you. Flirt a bit, get her horny, get my blow job. Wash, rinse, repeat...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I guess the cynic in me sees this is a complete manipulation tactic. He knows that you will get hot and bothered and get you to give in just to get your crumb while he gets what he wants. The fact that he started this but didn't finish says to me that he really had no interest in actually putting forth real effort in satisfying you. Flirt a bit, get her horny, get my blow job. Wash, rinse, repeat...


I'll agree that this was my first thought. This happens a lot, and I usually give in which is often why I avoid intimacy if I know he won't have sex. If we are running short of time and he starts wanting to make out I know he is just trying to get a quickie or a blow job. 

It hurts his feelings when I don't want to kiss or rough house. But I know that it turns me on and then I'm let down.

But this week he hasn't asked? He'll kiss me for a while then walk off like it's no big deal and not bring it up again. Actually I offered the blow job Thursday when we were being frisky, and he turned me down, then Friday I offered again. (Again not proud of that but it seemed right at the time.)

It's almost like he's onto my plan, and he is using the same tactic back at me. :scratchhead:

Either way I'm not going to give in and give him a blow job if that is his end goal, and I'll just continue enjoying the flirting the touching I'm getting.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well his resolve didn't last long.

I got home at 11pm last night and he mentioned having a quickie today before I left again. I just said no thanks, I'll wait until we had time. He said, "we could just have a quickie for fun."

Isn't that why you always have sex? And after over a week without sex a quickie is NOT fun, it's torture for me. It's just rubbing salt in the wound.

We snuggled up in bed and put in a movie. After a few minutes he wanted to take my shirt off... I knew where this was going as usual. But I took it off, then we started kissing and romping around. Then out it came, "geez a blow job sounds nice." I again just said no thanks, while thinking, why yeah that would be nice... for me. Then he whined a bit about how he is going to explode and die and I just told him sorry. 

Well that ended the kissing and he rolled over and was asleep in less than 2 minutes.

I felt bad for him for about a second. Then I remembered all the times I literately begged and still got turned down. He'll get over it.

Still staying strong.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well his resolve didn't last long.
> 
> I got home at 11pm last night and he mentioned having a quickie today before I left again. I just said no thanks, I'll wait until we had time. He said, "we could just have a quickie for fun."
> 
> Isn't that why you always have sex? And after over a week without sex a quickie is NOT fun, it's torture for me. It's just rubbing salt in the wound.
> 
> We snuggled up in bed and put in a movie. After a few minutes he wanted to take my shirt off... I knew where this was going as usual. But I took it off, then we started kissing and romping around. Then out it came, "geez a blow job sounds nice." I again just said no thanks, while thinking, why yeah that would be nice... for me. Then he whined a bit about how he is going to explode and die and I just told him sorry.
> 
> Well that ended the kissing and he rolled over and was asleep in less than 2 minutes.
> 
> I felt bad for him for about a second. Then I remembered all the times I literately begged and still got turned down. He'll get over it.
> 
> Still staying strong.


His true colors showing once again. I suspect that as he keeps showing you his true feelings for you, that your resolve will be easier to keep. That the thoughts of giving him blow jobs and quickies will become less and less appealing.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't cave TCW!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> His true colors showing once again. I suspect that as he keeps showing you his true feelings for you, that your resolve will be easier to keep. That the thoughts of giving him blow jobs and quickies will become less and less appealing.



This is already happening. Recently when he gets me all worked up and then asks for something most times instead of feeling desperate I just feel disgusted. Last night I really had no trouble telling him no. In fact I was quite cold, and wasn't in the mood at all.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Don't cave TCW!


I'm feeling okay now. I'm confident I won't give in....

Now next week when I'm ovulating and as horny as a rabbit, I might have some trouble.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm feeling okay now. I'm confident I won't give in....
> 
> Now next week when I'm ovulating and as horny as a rabbit, I might have some trouble.


You can do it - drag a toy out of the closet if you have to.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This is already happening. Recently when he gets me all worked up and then asks for something most times instead of feeling desperate *I just feel disgusted*. Last night I really had no trouble telling him no. In fact I was quite cold, and wasn't in the mood at all.
> 
> I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad.


I'm not big on telling someone how they should or shouldn't feel, but you have every reason in the world to feel this way. Most people in your situation would feel this way. I'm just going to say it...that is exactly how you should feel.

My STBW and I had some fun the other afternoon. She wanted an O, and got a really good one. My clothes never even came off...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> You can do it - drag a toy out of the closet if you have to.


I've already been taking care of myself almost daily. 

I hope I'm not ruining myself and making it so husband won't be able to do it anymore.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I'm not big on telling someone how they should or shouldn't feel, but you have every reason in the world to feel this way. Most people in your situation would feel this way. I'm just going to say it...that is exactly how you should feel.
> 
> My STBW and I had some fun the other afternoon. She wanted an O, and got a really good one. My clothes never even came off...


I only wish my husband cares that much about my sexual satisfaction. Honestly every time I initiate anymore it's not fun because most of the time I just get an eye roll, so I'm always tentative and scared to even bring it up. Then if he does agree in the back of my mind I'm always wondering if this is torture for him, or if he is wanting me to hurry up and get it over with.

It's really taken the wind out of my sails. And he just doesn't seem to understand when I tell him. He thinks everything is just peachy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The sad part is that even if he turns things around right now I'm not sure if I'll ever fully enjoy sex again without worrying about what he is thinking.

It would take a lot of time and convincing to persuade me that I'm not just a burden. Honestly, I don't think he has it in him.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The sad part is that even if he turns things around right now I'm not sure if I'll ever fully enjoy sex again without worrying about what he is thinking.
> 
> It would take a lot of time and convincing to persuade me that I'm not just a burden. Honestly, I don't think he has it in him.



He is the one causing this NOT YOU. His selfishness, and lack of caring about you. The damage he is doing is very real. How many threads have you read about sexless marriages? HD/LD? Lack of desire? 

What you have documented in this thread is the origin of a thread that your husband could start in about a year...Why doesn't my wife want to have sex with me? Only in his case, we all know EXACTLY what caused it...HIM!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> He is the one causing this NOT YOU. His selfishness, and lack of caring about you. The damage he is doing is very real. How many threads have you read about sexless marriages? HD/LD? Lack of desire?
> 
> What you have documented in this thread is the origin of a thread that your husband could start in about a year...Why doesn't my wife want to have sex with me? Only in his case, we all know EXACTLY what caused it...HIM!


Although we are doing pretty good at the time with an average of 2 or 3 times a week. I feel it could very easily go in the sexless direction.

There is only so much of this crap I can take, and eventually I'm going to quite trying.

In just a year I've already lost a lot of my enthusiasm and libido.

If I'm being real we got along so much better when we weren't having sex. When it wasn't a factor, our relationship was so much stronger. Honestly sexless is where it may end up going in a few years if I want to keep my sanity.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *Although we are doing pretty good at the time with an average of 2 or 3 times a week*. I feel it could very easily go in the sexless direction.
> 
> There is only so much of this crap I can take, and eventually I'm going to quite trying.
> 
> In just a year I've already lost a lot of my enthusiasm and libido.
> 
> If I'm being real we got along so much better when we weren't having sex. When it wasn't a factor, our relationship was so much stronger. Honestly sexless is where it may end up going in a few years if I want to keep my sanity.


2 or 3 times a week where you are satisfied? Where he is selfless? Real sex, making love, not just a quickie or a bj?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> 2 or 3 times a week where you are satisfied? Where he is selfless? Real sex, making love, not just a quickie or a bj?


I'm probably satisfied once a week or maybe twice on a good week.

But our sexual encounters are never long, or passionate. Just routine. Rarely is it a time where we can't keep our hands off of each other, or where is he is as excited as I am.

I'd go as far to say that often times our sex life is awkward. 

I'll ask for sex. He'll begrudging agree and tell me to go wash up. I'll go shower and come back and crawl into bed beside him. Then there is this awkward shifting of gears where we snuggle and try to get enthused and begin kissing. Then I lay beside him until I'm done then the PIV lasts a couple minutes and then it's clean up and go about our business. 

It's that bad. Frankly and I'm getting bored and tired of it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot to share his newest rule. 

It's boring and doesn't turn him on for me to be naked at first. So if I initiate I have to be clothed so he can take it off himself. The last time I came to bed naked he completely ignored me. (I think I shared that story a while back.)

Since then every time I shower for sex I put my clothes back on after.

That's a self esteem booster to know that he's more turned on when I have clothes on. 

He didn't mean it that way, but that's how I've taken it. He flat out told me he doesn't get as excited if I'm naked.

Now I'm self conscience being naked around him. I'm 130 lbs for pete sake. I'm not disgusting or chubby and need to hide.

So any of that advice people tell you to use to seduce your husband like coming to bed naked, or walking around without a shirt is a complete turn off to him.  Great.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm probably satisfied once a week or maybe twice on a good week.
> 
> But our sexual encounters are never long, or passionate. Just routine. Rarely is it a time where we can't keep our hands off of each other, or where is he is as excited as I am.
> 
> I'd go as far to say that often times our sex life is awkward.
> 
> I'll ask for sex. He'll begrudging agree and tell me to go wash up. I'll go shower and come back and crawl into bed beside him. Then there is this awkward shifting of gears where we snuggle and try to get enthused and begin kissing. Then I lay beside him until I'm done then the PIV lasts a couple minutes and then it's clean up and go about our business.
> 
> It's that bad. Frankly and I'm getting bored and tired of it.


OMG, TCW, I can understand your boredom and frustration. What about counseling, have you ever considered that?


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh I forgot to share his newest rule.
> 
> It's boring and doesn't turn him on for me to be naked at first. So if I initiate I have to be clothed so he can take it off himself. The last time I came to bed naked he completely ignored me. (I think I shared that story a while back.)
> 
> Since then every time I shower for sex I put my clothes back on after.
> 
> That's a self esteem booster to know that he's more turned on when I have clothes on.
> 
> He didn't mean it that way, but that's how I've taken it. He flat out told me he doesn't get as excited if I'm naked.
> 
> Now I'm self conscience being naked around him. I'm 130 lbs for pete sake. I'm not disgusting or chubby and need to hide.
> 
> So any of that advice people tell you to use to seduce your husband like coming to bed naked, or walking around without a shirt is a complete turn off to him.  Great.


He's making excuses. It'll be something else next.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> OMG, TCW, I can understand your boredom and frustration. What about counseling, have you ever considered that?


It's a no go on the counseling. He doesn't think we have a problem, and he for sure doesn't want to talk to someone about it. It's also expensive in our area.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh I forgot to share his newest rule.
> 
> It's boring and doesn't turn him on for me to be naked at first. So if I initiate I have to be clothed so he can take it off himself. The last time I came to bed naked he completely ignored me. (I think I shared that story a while back.)
> 
> Since then every time I shower for sex I put my clothes back on after.
> 
> That's a self esteem booster to know that he's more turned on when I have clothes on.
> 
> He didn't mean it that way, but that's how I've taken it. He flat out told me he doesn't get as excited if I'm naked.
> 
> Now I'm self conscience being naked around him. I'm 130 lbs for pete sake. I'm not disgusting or chubby and need to hide.
> 
> So any of that advice people tell you to use to seduce your husband like coming to bed naked, or walking around without a shirt is a complete turn off to him.  Great.


Just for me personally, doesn't matter to me what she does or doesn't wear to bed. There are no signals from her saying I want sex, or I don't want sex. Doesn't matter if it's totally naked, just her thong, lingerie, sweats and a tshirt, flannel night gown, yoga pants...it's all the same. She's going to be naked soon enough, just a matter of how much needs taken off first


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It's a no go on the counseling. He doesn't think we have a problem, and he for sure doesn't want to talk to someone about it. It's also expensive in our area.


Of course no counselling, and he doesn't think there is a problem. When he starts to notice things have changed, he'll blame it on you, guilt trip you. No shock here.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> He's making excuses. It'll be something else next.


It always is something else. He can figure out an excuse to get out of sex anytime, even if all his criteria are met.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Of course no counselling, and he doesn't think there is a problem. When he starts to notice things have changed, he'll blame it on you, guilt trip you. No shock here.


Of course he will. He will say I'm being selfish, that I only care about my _wants_ and not his _needs_.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Of course he will. He will say I'm being selfish, that I only care about my _wants_ and not his _needs_.


You do realize what that actually is right?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> You do realize what that actually is right?


Enlighten me.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Enlighten me.


Blaming the victim. Projection. Crazy making. Rewriting history. It is a tactic used to control. I am very very familiar with this behavior. My ex wife is a pro at it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Blaming the victim. Projection. Crazy making. Rewriting history. It is a tactic used to control. I am very very familiar with this behavior. My ex wife is a pro at it.


He is a pro at it too. I'm putty in his hands. 

I just still don't understand how he can be that way though. He is so nice in all other aspects of our life. Our sex life is the only thing I can think of that causes any problems in our marriage. We click on so many other levels. It just boggles me that we can act this way about sex. And he doesn't seem to do it on purpose or even realizing he does it. Every time I bring his behavior up he is so genuinely surprised that what he does bothers me.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW, how does your husband's father treat his mother?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

His parents are the most happily married couple I've ever seen. His father treats his mother and all ladies as queens. I've honestly never seen such a nice family. 

They are so helpful and sweet, and I've never heard a bad word spoken about them from anyone! They remind me of those old sitcom shows like I love lucy.

His parents have never raised this voice. Like ever. They are also completely unselfish, and totally giving. They'd help anyone for anything.

That is one thing my husband got from his family. In more than a decade of being close with him, I have never seen him raise his voice.

My family kind of sucks, so his family has very willingly accepted me in as their own. I've enjoyed getting that part of life that I hadn't experienced.


----------



## Always Learning

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm probably satisfied once a week or maybe twice on a good week.
> 
> But our sexual encounters are never long, or passionate. Just routine. Rarely is it a time where we can't keep our hands off of each other, or where is he is as excited as I am.
> 
> I'd go as far to say that often times our sex life is awkward.
> 
> I'll ask for sex. He'll begrudging agree and tell me to go wash up. I'll go shower and come back and crawl into bed beside him. Then there is this awkward shifting of gears where we snuggle and try to get enthused and begin kissing. Then I lay beside him until I'm done then the PIV lasts a couple minutes and then it's clean up and go about our business.
> 
> It's that bad. Frankly and I'm getting bored and tired of it.


Has your husband been getting tips from my wife? :rofl:

You just described us. There have been multiple occasions where I was on the bed first and she will walk around to the other side or go over me then lay on her back beside me and wait for me to start. 

I wish I could offer you some advise but if I could I would probably know what to do for me too. It just continues to amaze me that people make something so good be so difficult!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Always Learning said:


> Has your husband been getting tips from my wife? :rofl:
> 
> You just described us. There have been multiple occasions where I was on the bed first and she will walk around to the other side or go over me then lay on her back beside me and wait for me to start.
> 
> I wish I could offer you some advise but if I could I would probably know what to do for me too. It just continues to amaze me that people make something so good be so difficult!


That is what we do. We crawl into bed and wait for someone to start. It's odd.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I got home a little early again. But when I arrived at 10 he was already asleep. 

No mention of sex or sexual things at all this week except the couple minutes of whining for a blow job he did the other day.

 HOW CAN HE BE SO CALM AND WHATEVER?

I'm going crazy here I'm so horny. It's constantly on my mind, and I'm having trouble concentrating. 

Yesterday I started day dreaming about how stiffies look in jeans. And I never think about any male body parts except my husbands. I nipped that in the bud quick. 

But then I get home and can't touch or even see his naked body, so I'm still frustrated. 

We are on day 8 already, and before that it was just a very short quickie. Our anniversary is in a couple days and I know we will have sex and just that thought alone is getting me hot. How can it not be on his mind?

I'm almost positive we'll have sex tonight because we will finally see each other after 8pm. But I won't be bringing it up, so I'm not sure how it's going to go down.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I got home a little early again. But when I arrived at 10 he was already asleep.
> 
> No mention of sex or sexual things at all this week except the couple minutes of whining for a blow job he did the other day.
> 
> HOW CAN HE BE SO CALM AND WHATEVER?
> 
> I'm going crazy here I'm so horny. It's constantly on my mind, and I'm having trouble concentrating.
> 
> Yesterday I started day dreaming about how stiffies look in jeans. And I never think about any male body parts except my husbands. I nipped that in the bud quick.
> 
> But then I get home and can't touch or even see his naked body, so I'm still frustrated.
> 
> We are on day 8 already, and before that it was just a very short quickie. Our anniversary is in a couple days and I know we will have sex and just that thought alone is getting me hot. How can it not be on his mind?
> 
> I'm almost positive we'll have sex tonight because we will finally see each other after 8pm. But I won't be bringing it up, so I'm not sure how it's going to go down.


There is no need to be celebate  Get inside your own head a bit before you even start doing anything and get caught up in the moment. You know exactly what needs to happen so you don't feel neglected the next afternoon. It's easy to get caught up in the moment, the afterglow, but think about how you are going to feel when that has all worn off. You know what you need to feel satisfied and content the next day. Don't settle for anything less than that, and if you're not going to get that, don't start. If you do start, and it starts going in that direction, stop.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I got home a little early again. But when I arrived at 10 he was already asleep.
> 
> No mention of sex or sexual things at all this week except the couple minutes of whining for a blow job he did the other day.
> 
> HOW CAN HE BE SO CALM AND WHATEVER?
> 
> I'm going crazy here I'm so horny. It's constantly on my mind, and I'm having trouble concentrating.
> 
> Yesterday I started day dreaming about how stiffies look in jeans. And I never think about any male body parts except my husbands. I nipped that in the bud quick.
> 
> But then I get home and can't touch or even see his naked body, so I'm still frustrated.
> 
> *We are on day 8 already, and before that it was just a very short quickie. Our anniversary is in a couple days and I know we will have sex and just that thought alone is getting me hot. How can it not be on his mind*?
> 
> I'm almost positive we'll have sex tonight because we will finally see each other after 8pm. But I won't be bringing it up, so I'm not sure how it's going to go down.


I'm sure it is on his mind, and it wouldn't surprise me if he finds this all somewhat amusing, a game of sorts. Aww, look at my little wife thinking she can hold out on me...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> There is no need to be celebate  Get inside your own head a bit before you even start doing anything and get caught up in the moment. You know exactly what needs to happen so you don't feel neglected the next afternoon. It's easy to get caught up in the moment, the afterglow, but think about how you are going to feel when that has all worn off. You know what you need to feel satisfied and content the next day. Don't settle for anything less than that, and if you're not going to get that, don't start. If you do start, and it starts going in that direction, stop.



This sounds like a good plan. I will try. I can imagine the look of shock on his face if I pulled away from him and got up and walked off in the middle of being rubbed because he is laying there like a dead fish. I think it would be a eye opener for him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I'm sure it is on his mind, and it wouldn't surprise me if he finds this all somewhat amusing, a game of sorts. Aww, look at my little wife thinking she can hold out on me...


Eh I'm not so sure. He isn't like any other men I've met. It seems like he could take sex or leave it. To him it's not a need. I'd be surprised if he even noticed that it's been 8 days.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Eh I'm not so sure. He isn't like any other men I've met. It seems like he could take sex or leave it. To him it's not a need. I'd be surprised if he even noticed that it's been 8 days.


Sex maybe, but sexual gratification he seems pretty interested in.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Sex maybe, but sexual gratification he seems pretty interested in.


For some reason this short sentence really summed up his entire problem, and kind of cleared up some of my fog.

He doesn't like sex, he likes sexual gratification. 

He could careless about me and my needs, he is just looking for a way to get himself taken care of it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I have something else to add. Though it is a little immature and kind of random.

The younger sister of one of my friends is drop dead gorgeous. She has all my features, (blonde, skinny, blue eyes) except she also has bigger boobs and the most beautiful wavy hair that I've always wanted. 

It just happens that she is also exactly what my husband is attracted to. She is cheery, more fun than me, and a major flirt.

Well about a year ago I had a dream about my husband cheating on me with her. I told him and he thought it was hilarious. Well she got wind of it, and ever since then, every single time we are around her they both go out of their way to make me uncomfortable and jealous.

While I truly don't believe he has any interest in her, and she is a lot younger than him it still bothers me. 

It's so petty and immature, and I try to ignore it. I was never the jealous type.

But she will always sit next to him, and they often share a chair, with her all squished up against him. (He never shares a chair with me) She will also make a point to put her hand on his arm or shoulder when she is talking to him. It makes me want to just get up and smack her. I do not want her to touch my husband. 

Because they do it in public and in front of all our other friends everyone is often making cracks about it. Now it's not just them two playing it up, everyone feeds the fire.

I think it bothers me because I'm already insecure that he doesn't find me desirable, and here she is everything I want to be and more, and he seems to really play up and enjoy her attention.

Often times if we are play fighting and I mention not having sex again or not cooking again or whatever. He will say something like, "That's okay. I bet x would be more than happy to." And I'll say, "Good. She can have you."

I just find it weird that adults flirt and act like this. It's like jr. high all over again. :scratchhead:


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, there is a LOT wrong with that scenario (the friend's sister).


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious, there is a LOT wrong with that scenario (the friend's sister).


I agree. 

I know they are doing it in fun and that there are NO feelings between them. The girl is always talking about her latest crushes, and husband's friend has been wanting to date her for years and is waiting until he finishes school, and talks to husband about it often.

They don't ever have contact outside of these social gatherings where I am also present. And there is never anything inappropriate about their conversations. 

So I'm not worried that something is going to happen between them. But it still bothers me that they are trying to get a rouse out of me. It just feeds my newly found insecurities. 

I just found out I get off work early today. So I'm really hoping good things happen tonight.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree.
> 
> *I know they are doing it in fun* and that there are NO feelings between them. The girl is always talking about her latest crushes, and husband's friend has been wanting to date her for years and is waiting until he finishes school, and talks to husband about it often.
> 
> They don't ever have contact outside of these social gatherings where I am also present. And there is never anything inappropriate about their conversations.
> 
> So I'm not worried that something is going to happen between them. But it still bothers me that they are trying to get a rouse out of me. It just feeds my newly found insecurities.
> 
> I just found out I get off work early today. So I'm really hoping good things happen tonight.


So he takes pleasure in your discomfort, yet can't find pleasure in your sexual pleasure...


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I get ya, Curious. I also don't think "anything is going on" between them. It is just cruel to you and for no good reason.

Your H should not be a part of any joke that is cruel to you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



> So he takes pleasure in your discomfort, yet can't find pleasure in your sexual pleasure...





Faithful Wife said:


> I get ya, Curious. I also don't think "anything is going on" between them. It is just cruel to you and for no good reason.
> 
> Your H should not be a part of any joke that is cruel to you.


Yes. They are using me as the butt of the joke, and I don't appreciate it. 

If I did the same thing to one of his friends he would have a cow. 

Maybe I should flirt around with one of his friends and see how he likes it. He is a jealous person. 

But I would never do that, because it is mean and I think inappropriate.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This latest revalation brings a bit of clarity. On the surfce, a lot of people do take pleasure at cutting others down, playing on their insecurities and are excused because they claim teasing, funny. I don't think that's any excuse at all. Now you are establishing a pattern of disrespect when combined with how he treats you sexually. You are his comedic outlet as well as his personal blow job and quickie machine...


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. They are using me as the butt of the joke, and I don't appreciate it.
> 
> If I did the same thing to one of his friends he would have a cow.
> 
> *Maybe I should flirt around with one of his friends and see how he likes it*. He is a jealous person.
> 
> But I would never do that, because it is mean and I think inappropriate.


No. This is not tit for tat. None of this is. It is about building equality in your relationship.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> This latest revalation brings a bit of clarity. On the surfce, a lot of people do take pleasure at cutting others down, playing on their insecurities and are excused because they claim teasing, funny. I don't think that's any excuse at all. Now you are establishing a pattern of disrespect when combined with how he treats you sexually. You are his comedic outlet as well as his personal blow job and quickie machine...


He is always picking on everyone. He has always been that way. He is not the sweet, mushy, suck up kind of person. He is ornery. He says it's all in fun, but it does get to me sometimes. For the most part I like that he is a joker and ornery, but after so many years it starts getting old and I just want him to grow up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> No. This is not tit for tat. None of this is. It is about building equality in your relationship.


Which is why you needed to read the next line.  That I would never do that. I'm not about revenge.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is always picking on everyone. He has always been that way. He is not the sweet, mushy, suck up kind of person. He is ornery. He says it's all in fun, but it does get to me sometimes. For the most part I like that he is a joker and ornery, but after so many years it starts getting old and I just want him to grow up.


There is joking, and then there is disrespecting your wife in public. My ex wife put me down quite regularly in public, in front of our friends, and it was awful. Always laughed it off telling me to lighten up. Sorry, but being in love does not give someone the right or free pass to treat you worse than they would treat a complete stranger.



TheCuriousWife said:


> Which is why you needed to read the next line.  That I would never do that. I'm not about revenge.


I did read it, just wanted to reinforce your good decision


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sam...I think you might have jumped in on this thread later, right? 

If you go back to the beginning, there are actually several examples of the same type of behavior from Curious's husband...belittling, mocking, taking pleasure from being cruel to her, and downright insults.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Sam...I think you might have jumped in on this thread later, right?
> 
> If you go back to the beginning, there are actually several examples of the same type of behavior from Curious's husband...belittling, mocking, taking pleasure from being cruel to her, and downright insults.


I have followed it, but this was the first time Curious had really started to equate things, and I thought I would jump on the opportunity. This is very much a self discovery situation for her, and the more dots she connects herself, the stronger I think she will be in dealing with it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> There is joking, and then there is disrespecting your wife in public. My ex wife put me down quite regularly in public, in front of our friends, and it was awful. Always laughed it off telling me to lighten up. Sorry, but being in love does not give someone the right or free pass to treat you worse than they would treat a complete stranger.
> 
> I did read it, just wanted to reinforce your good decision


You are right. Jokes are not funny if they hurt feelings. I will remember to speak up next time he makes a joke at my expense, in public or not. 

There is so much to remember, and learn, and improve on. I'm not sure if I'll ever get there.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You are right. Jokes are not funny if they hurt feelings. I will remember to speak up next time he makes a joke at my expense, in public or not.
> 
> There is so much to remember, and learn, and improve on. I'm not sure if I'll ever get there.


Call him out on it when he is doing it. In front of everyone. Don't wait until you are home, and don't let him gas light you. Calmly tell him your feelings of disrespect.

I suspect that if you do that, you will hear about how rude, disrespectful, awful you are to him later. Just remember that he is doing nothig more than projecting onto you. I really don't think he gets it, my ex wife never did, and still doesn't. He has a huge entitlment comlplex and feels the world owes him because of his greatness.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yesterday was fabulous!

He practically attacked me when I got home from work. He had candles, and I cleaned up and put a thong on.

We romped around, and made out, and he gave me a massage, and we goofed off with clothes on.

Then he gave me oral for more than 5 minutes!!! And it felt great :smthumbup: but since it's the first time he's done it in forever I didn't make him do it too long. 

Then when he came up I kissed him, like full on deep throat kisses. I think that surprised him. Honestly even though _I_ was all over his face, I didn't taste or smell anything. 

He even dirty talked a little!!! 

Then we had a good old time with him rubbing while thrusting. I got pretty excited and I guess I squeezed too hard, and I made him lose it. But I didn't even know until it was all over because he just kept right on going, which he has never done after he's done. 

I was sad he didn't get to have a big finish, his just sort of leaked out. But we both still had a lot of fun. 

It was a great time, and I made sure to comment on how I liked the oral and kind of hinted that I wouldn't mind that more often. 

Sigh. If only our sex life was like that every time, i'd be in heaven.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yesterday was fabulous!
> 
> He practically attacked me when I got home from work. He had candles, and I cleaned up and put a thong on.
> 
> We romped around, and made out, and he gave me a massage, and we goofed off with clothes on.
> 
> Then he gave me oral for more than 5 minutes!!! And it felt great :smthumbup: but since it's the first time he's done it in forever I didn't make him do it too long.
> 
> Then when he came up I kissed him, like full on deep throat kisses. I think that surprised him. Honestly even though _I_ was all over his face, I didn't taste or smell anything.
> 
> He even dirty talked a little!!!
> 
> Then we had a good old time with him rubbing while thrusting. I got pretty excited and I guess I squeezed too hard, and I made him lose it. But I didn't even know until it was all over because he just kept right on going, which he has never done after he's done.
> 
> I was sad he didn't get to have a big finish, his just sort of leaked out. But we both still had a lot of fun.
> 
> It was a great time, and I made sure to comment on how I liked the oral and kind of hinted that I wouldn't mind that more often.
> 
> Sigh. If only our sex life was like that every time, i'd be in heaven.


You gotta start somewhere.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We are leaving today for our anniversary trip. I hope we have a great time! Wish me luck! See you guys in a couple days!


----------



## JustAnotherMan

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW have an amazing time!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hope you guys have a great time TCW and HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm back. The anniversary went okay. I'm trying not to be upset, but it's hard not to be disappointed.

Thursday we didn't have sex because we were saving it for the hotel. Friday we got to the hotel around 5pm. He said something about wanting to try for 3 times that evening.

We immediately got down to it, but for some reason PIV was really hurting me. I have no clue why, but it felt like he was hitting something in there, no matter the position. I just pushed through it, but I couldn't have an orgasm and we just gave up after a while and he finished.

Well we just relaxed all evening, took a wonderful bubble bath, ordered food to our hotel. But soon it was late, and I jokingly said, "so much for 3 times tonight." He said he was too full of food how about tomorrow. No big deal, what ever was hurting probably needed to rest anyway.

Morning came, and we didn't have to check out until noon and we got up at 8, so I thought we could have a long leisurely session. I started getting frisky and he told me no, that he wanted to leave early so we could have plenty of time for our hike. He talked me into another bubble bath instead, and of course once we started kissing in there and I felt him up he was then in the mood. So he asked for a quickie, which I told him no. We got out and instead of leaving he ended up finding a movie we like on tv and we stayed another hour.  So much for his no sex excuse. 

We hiked all day and it was pretty but I'll admit I wasn't in much of a chipper mood after being rejected on our anniversary trip. During our hike he asked for a blow job, because during our honeymoon when we went hiking I gave him a blow job out in the wilderness. I told him no, that I was saving him for later. And he reminded me how he only got one blow job during my period and tried to guilt me into it but I stood my ground.

We drove home that evening and got there around 8. I started making some hints again, but instead he put in a 2.5 hour movie. When it got over he had already fallen asleep several times. I asked about sex and he gave me the famous, "if YOU want to we can...." But he fell asleep again before I could even decide, so I knew he wouldn't be into it and then I wouldn't be and it'd just be a mess, so we went to bed. I'm ashamed to say I cried a little before I fell asleep. 

Sunday was our actual anniversary. He said and I quote, "We should see how many times we can do it. I bet we could make it to 8." I knew he was crazy, but I just shrugged and said we'll see. When we woke up we finally had sex. By this time I was so horny, I only lasted less than 5 minutes after he began touching me. The entire time lasted literately 15. We cleaned our house all day and laid around, and I cooked a yummy dinner. No mention of anything sexual. At 8pm I started trying to flirt and feel him up and he gave me the exhausted sigh and said he was tired. I asked him if he could be persuaded and he said no.  

So I continued to keep busy cleaning the house, at 10 he asked me to come to bed with him, he fell asleep in a couple minutes, but I was too upset and not sleepy so I got up and went to the living room to watch tv. He woke up a few minutes later and caught me, and seemed a little upset that I wanted to be away from him on our anniversary. He joined me on the couch and fell asleep. An hour later I woke him up and we went to bed. 

I'll admit I'm pretty upset. We had pretty crappy sex only twice on our 4 day anniversary vacation. Now I'm confused if I should be happy with what I got, or if I have a right to be upset. It always seems like I'm upset about something, and now I'm wondering if I just subconsciously look for things to bother me, or if I have a genuine reason to be unhappy.  I don't like being a sour person all the time. Why can't I just be happy? I just want my husband to love me. 

I tried to hold hands with him once or twice during the weekend. It lasted about a minute. There was no flirting, or mushiness. I guess I'm just feeling sorry for myself. Thanks for letting me rant.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry Curious. I think you shouldn't get down on yourself for feeling disappointed and you shouldn't feel bad for needing to cry a bit.

I think those people who aren't getting their intimate needs met really look forward to these trips and occasions. When they end up being no different than they are at home its a natural reaction to be disappointed and upset about it.

I'm sorry especially that he continued to make comments that kept your hopes up but didn't follow through.

You should not feel bad that your expectations are what they are. Your husband isn't wrong for expecting what he expects. You are just expecting different things. When it comes to.sex, though, the partner who has the lower expectations always wins. 

I'm sorry, Hun. I have felt the same way after trips. I know where you are coming from.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I'm sorry Curious. I think you shouldn't get down on yourself for feeling disappointed and you shouldn't feel bad for needing to cry a bit.
> 
> I think those people who aren't getting their intimate needs met really look forward to these trips and occasions. When they end up being no different than they are at home its a natural reaction to be disappointed and upset about it.
> 
> I'm sorry especially that he continued to make comments that kept your hopes up but didn't follow through.
> 
> You should not feel bad that your expectations are what they are. Your husband isn't wrong for expecting what he expects. You are just expecting different things. When it comes to.sex, though, the partner who has the lower expectations always wins.
> 
> I'm sorry, Hun. I have felt the same way after trips. I know where you are coming from.


Thanks. I just wish I didn't feel like I could cry 24/7. I wish I didn't put so much pressure and emotion into sex, but I just can't help it. It's who I am. 

I just read your latest post, and I'm sorry for you too. Life really sucks sometimes.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have an idea - lets be gay girlfriends. 

(Making light of our woe.)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I have an idea - lets be gay girlfriends.
> 
> (Making light of our woe.)


My best friend also has guy problems. We have often made this joke. 

Men. You just want to beat some sense into sometimes.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My best friend also has guy problems. We have often made this joke.
> 
> Men. You just want to beat some sense into sometimes.


So there is a need for wives who are being starved at home?

Perhaps someone could fill the need and not even pitter patter around the husband and be direct.

"I'm not going to break up the maritial union at this time, but while you are not satisfying my 'NORMAL' sexual requirement, my friend Carlos is going to take care of me."


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm telling you - if only we could match everyone up with each other on this board we would all be good.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I'm telling you - if only we could match everyone up with each other on this board we would all be good.


You think that could really work?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well, I haven't counted how many women we have vs men - but in the subgroup of those who long for more sex, more intimacy more passion you would be matched up with someone who wanted the same.

We have guys dying to give ladies orgasms and need 209 hours of sex to even feel caught up in life and then you have women dying to be given orgasms and wanting to do all kinds of sexual exploring and want to be with someone who wants to spend weekends in bed.

I keep saying - they need a dating site specifically for those coming out of low sex relationships. Cut through the bull**** - we want sex.


----------



## TikiKeen

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



> Cut through the bull**** - we want sex.


Hear hear! :smnotworthy:


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

People do put such things on their dating profiles.

Myself, I just made it known upfront with any guy I was dating after my D that I am a highly sexual person and wouldn't pair up with anything less. I learned soon to develop some Sex-dar (already had a decent amount of it) and didn't even consider dates with guys who weren't that sexual.

I didn't get right down to sex on early dates, but I did discuss sex. 

I think a lot of men here would be surprised at how many men just aren't that sexual. Those men don't come here much.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Well, I haven't counted how many women we have vs men - but in the subgroup of those who long for more sex, more intimacy more passion you would be matched up with someone who wanted the same.
> 
> We have guys dying to give ladies orgasms and need 209 hours of sex to even feel caught up in life and then you have women dying to be given orgasms and wanting to do all kinds of sexual exploring and want to be with someone who wants to spend weekends in bed.


Sounds good to me.



MissScarlett said:


> I keep saying - they need a dating site specifically for those coming out of low sex relationships. Cut through the bull**** - we want sex.


May as well make this a priority up front and spell it completely out.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have a question.

Is it worth bringing up to husband how unsatisfying our weekend was. Or should I just let it go and forgive and try to forget? I feel like I need to pick my battles wisely instead of being the nagging wife. 

As far as he is concerned the weekend was great. Although I think he knows something is up with me. I don't hide it very well. I avoid kissing and general contact, try not to look at him, and I'm quieter than I usually am. 

Most times he knows I'm upset though he just avoids me back and won't bring it up I guess to avoid confrontation.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You are both avoiding confrontation, my dear.


----------



## movealong

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Well, I haven't counted how many women we have vs men - but in the subgroup of those who long for more sex, more intimacy more passion you would be matched up with someone who wanted the same.
> 
> We have guys dying to give ladies orgasms and need 209 hours of sex to even feel caught up in life and then you have women dying to be given orgasms and wanting to do all kinds of sexual exploring and want to be with someone who wants to spend weekends in bed.
> 
> I keep saying - they need a dating site specifically for those coming out of low sex relationships. Cut through the bull**** - we want sex.


:iagree:
Sorry, not trying to hijack, but damn this is spot on. I want a sore tongue from using it so much, and to walk with a waddle from using "it" so much. A hotel with room service so leaving to eat is not a necessity. Yea. Sounds good to me.


----------



## movealong

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Is it worth bringing up to husband how unsatisfying our weekend was. Or should I just let it go and forgive and try to forget? I feel like I need to pick my battles wisely instead of being the nagging wife.
> 
> As far as he is concerned the weekend was great. Although I think he knows something is up with me. I don't hide it very well. I avoid kissing and general contact, try not to look at him, and I'm quieter than I usually am.
> 
> Most times he knows I'm upset though he just avoids me back and won't bring it up I guess to avoid confrontation.


I don't know if talking about will make a difference. For my wife it took me writing it out and sending it to her in an email before she really understood that her LD was driving me insane and making me want to give up and leave. 

My situation is different because I am a recovering alcoholic. She was always lower drive than me, but when I was drinking it caused her resentments. I had already developed resentments from lack of intimacy, so when I was rejected in my attempts to initiate, I said the hell with it and drank more. We've just started on the road to recovering our marriage. I've been sober for 8 months, and she finally understands that the intimacy is a must. Those are the two areas where we have to work. I am hoping for the best, and doing a lot of praying. 

I don't know if writing it out in an email will work for your situation, but it is something to consider. It removes the immediacy of a face to face conversation and may get him to open up.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Well, I haven't counted how many women we have vs men - but in the subgroup of those who long for more sex, more intimacy more passion you would be matched up with someone who wanted the same.
> 
> We have guys dying to give ladies orgasms and need 209 hours of sex to even feel caught up in life and then you have women dying to be given orgasms and wanting to do all kinds of sexual exploring and want to be with someone who wants to spend weekends in bed.
> 
> I keep saying - they need a dating site specifically for those coming out of low sex relationships. Cut through the bull**** - we want sex.


:iagree:


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Is it worth bringing up to husband how unsatisfying our weekend was. Or should I just let it go and forgive and try to forget? I feel like I need to pick my battles wisely instead of being the nagging wife.
> 
> As far as he is concerned the weekend was great. Although I think he knows something is up with me. I don't hide it very well. I avoid kissing and general contact, try not to look at him, and I'm quieter than I usually am.
> 
> Most times he knows I'm upset though he just avoids me back and won't bring it up I guess to avoid confrontation.



He knew what you wanted, he teased you about it, and set you up for disappointment. 

It wasn't what you expected. And that hurts. 

He might not bring it up for a very long time. He has all the power right now. 

Your thread sometimes trigger me. Been there, done that, didn't win the battle. 

And from my side of the fence... two yrs further down the road than you are... I am long past even wanting my room-mate H to even touch me. NO thanks. How long does it take them to even notice? A LONG time. 

It's not a question of how long can your H go without sex... it's how long before he realises that if he isn't making you happy, you will find someone else who will?

Of course he's happy and satisfied. Think about that for a second. You cried about how disappointed you were, and he is happy. It's about at that point that I got angry. And angry did me a whole more good. 

How miserable do you have to be before he cares more about your marriage than being in control? There is no bottom to it.

What would you say to him? 
If it's unacceptable to you (the things he did) it's worth talking about. 

As a boundary. What's the consequence?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Life is carrying on in the normal way.

One of his excuses for not wanting sex is that I don't wear enough lingerie. So Saturday I got home before him and cleaned up and put something racy on. I lit candles and was wearing a robe when he got home, and when he saw what I was wearing instead of being turned on or smiling like you would think, he just said, "ugh" Then he went on about how full of food he was and tired... After he was off all day, and I just worked 12 hours... (In a 10 day stretch without a day off)

So I said never mind that's okay. He ended up obliging me... But *he fell asleep* at least 3 times while he was rubbing me. He literately falls asleep in seconds. So I'd talk to him and wake him up and a minute later he'd fall asleep and stop rubbing again.  I kept trying to get him to stop but he wouldn't. Finally after an hour I MADE him just finish and get it over with. 

That means 3 out of the last 4 times we have had sex I haven't been able to orgasm. That's including our anniversary trip. So the one time was able to, it only took 5 minutes. What the heck, I think I'm broken. :scratchhead: I thought it was just him, but even when I've masturbated it's taken longer than normal.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Life is carrying on in the normal way.
> 
> One of his excuses for not wanting sex is that I don't wear enough lingerie. So Saturday I got home before him and cleaned up and put something racy on. I lit candles and was wearing a robe when he got home, and when he saw what I was wearing instead of being turned on or smiling like you would think, he just said, "ugh" Then he went on about how full of food he was and tired... After he was off all day, and I just worked 12 hours... (In a 10 day stretch without a day off)
> 
> So I said never mind that's okay. He ended up obliging me... But *he fell asleep* at least 3 times while he was rubbing me. He literately falls asleep in seconds. So I'd talk to him and wake him up and a minute later he'd fall asleep and stop rubbing again.  I kept trying to get him to stop but he wouldn't. Finally after an hour I MADE him just finish and get it over with.
> 
> That means 3 out of the last 4 times we have had sex I haven't been able to orgasm. That's including our anniversary trip. So the one time was able to, it only took 5 minutes. What the heck, I think I'm broken. :scratchhead: *I thought it was just him, but even when I've masturbated it's taken longer than norma*l.


That could be the very natural result from his behaviour. You are not feeling desired by him. You begin to question your own attractiveness. You stop feeling sexy. You stop feeling comfortable in your own skin. You have difficulties orgasming. Quite simple really.

You are not broken. You are suffering long term emotional abuse.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> That could be the very natural result from his behaviour. You are not feeling desired by him. You begin to question your own attractiveness. You stop feeling sexy. You stop feeling comfortable in your own skin. You have difficulties orgasming. Quite simple really.
> 
> You are not broken. You are suffering long term emotional abuse.


That is one of my thoughts. But 2 out of these 4 times we were both really into it. You think if we are both enthusiastic that I wouldn't have trouble. I can understand if he is just laying there, but now even if he'd into it I have trouble. 

It still feels good, but it's like I just teeter on the edge and I can't get over. It's so weird. It feels like it really needs and wants to come out, but then it just doesn't. Then it takes too long, then he gets bored, then I feel bad, then I feel pressured and it just takes even longer... it's a vicious cycle. 

I've also gained a little bit of weight the past couple months. Self confidence is beginning to fall.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That is one of my thoughts. But 2 out of these 4 times we were both really into it. *You think if we are both enthusiastic that I wouldn't have trouble.* I can understand if he is just laying there, but now even if he'd into it I have trouble.
> 
> It still feels good, but it's like I just teeter on the edge and I can't get over. It's so weird. It feels like it really needs and wants to come out, but then it just doesn't. Then it takes too long, then he gets bored, then I feel bad, then I feel pressured and it just takes even longer... it's a vicious cycle.
> 
> I've also gained a little bit of weight the past couple months. Self confidence is beginning to fall.


I wouldn't think this at all. 

Even a puppy gets hesitant if it gets kicked enough times when being offered a treat...even if it doesn't happen every time.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I wouldn't think this at all.
> 
> Even a puppy gets hesitant if it gets kicked enough times when being offered a treat...even if it doesn't happen every time.


You are correct.

I hope this is only temporary.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I wonder if you aren't starting to develop a female version of ED due to the inconsistant emotional.side of your relationship.

And perhaps he blamed the lack of lingerie because it was a convenient excuse at the time. Anything to put it on you - or put it anywhere but himself.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I wonder if you aren't starting to develop a female version of ED due to the inconsistant emotional.side of your relationship.
> 
> And perhaps he blamed the lack of lingerie because it was a convenient excuse at the time. Anything to put it on you - or put it anywhere but himself.


I think both of these are true.

He seems to shift everything, so in his little world he isn't doing anything wrong and he believes it. 

Last night we were home earlier in the evening. I'm proud that I controlled myself and didn't bring up sex, even though he had mentioned earlier in the day. Of course he didn't bring it up either.

I know it's terrible to be happy that I didn't flirt or act sexual with my husband. But it makes me feel better about myself that I don't have to be desperate. I don't need to beg. It gives me a slight feeling of self confidence, and lessens his power over me. 

What does make me sad is that we can go days and days without hugging, or kissing except for maybe one goodnight peck, or holding hands, or really anything intimate. I want to be snuggled, and held, and kissed.

What's even sadder is that most days I don't really care that we aren't intimate because resentment is there. So I don't bring it up, and either does he. We just go about our busy lives. Most days I'm not even in the mood to kiss and be intimate, my craving for physical contact is going down.

It makes sex even more awkward and faked. Because that is really the only time we kiss, or touch for that matter. 

But I know something inside me stills wants intimacy. Because I find myself putting my hand on his back when he is sitting near me, or even resting my leg up against him when we sleep. Subconsciously I think I just want to touch him and be near him.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think both of these are true.
> 
> He seems to shift everything, so in his little world he isn't doing anything wrong and he believes it.
> 
> Last night we were home earlier in the evening. I'm proud that I controlled myself and didn't bring up sex, even though he had mentioned earlier in the day. Of course he didn't bring it up either.
> 
> I know it's terrible to be happy that I didn't flirt or act sexual with my husband. But it makes me feel better about myself that I don't have to be desperate. I don't need to beg. It gives me a slight feeling of self confidence, and lessens his power over me.
> 
> What does make me sad is that we can go days and days without hugging, or kissing except for maybe one goodnight peck, or holding hands, or really anything intimate. I want to be snuggled, and held, and kissed.
> 
> What's even sadder is that most days I don't really care that we aren't intimate because resentment is there. So I don't bring it up, and either does he. We just go about our busy lives. Most days I'm not even in the mood to kiss and be intimate, my craving for physical contact is going down.
> 
> It makes sex even more awkward and faked. Because that is really the only time we kiss, or touch for that matter.
> 
> *But I know something inside me stills wants intimacy. Because I find myself putting my hand on his back when he is sitting near me, or even resting my leg up against him when we sleep. Subconsciously I think I just want to touch him and be near him*.


What is sad is that he doesn't want the same.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"I'm proud that I controlled myself and didn't bring up sex..."

But this is simply avoiding conflict, and it won't help you in the long run.


----------



## KanDo

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What is that St. Augistine quote?... "Resentment is the poison we take ourselves hoping the other person dies"...

Please do not allow resentment to consume you.

I really am not understanding the dynamics of your sexual relationship very well. Your husband clearly has desire. He was asking for oral sex on the hike and quickies on the days before your trip. So it is not like he doesn't have like or want sex. 

On your anniversary trip you talk about a sexual encounter where you climaxed but the encounter lasted only 5 minutes so you aren't satisfied... 

So, how much time do you usually need to "get over the waterfall"? Do you take like an hour or more normally? AFter you came in 5 minute, was the rodeo over? Did the two of you not continue to please each other or cuddle? 

In some ways, I wonder if your desire for sex might be a general need for intimacy that your not getting (and could be met with other activities beside an exhausting episode of the horizontal mambo).

If you actually take a long time, consider starting without the hubby and calling him in for the final inning, or using toys to accelerate your climax. A guy that gets bored during sex should prompt a change so that you both are in the game. Maybe switch to a 69 position or move to mutual masturbation to get him back into the fray.

Reading your story really makes me think there is more here. A sex therapist might be of help. Start reflecting on intimacy in your relationship including other things besides sex. I think you will find there is a void there as well

just my not so humble opinion.......


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> "I'm proud that I controlled myself and didn't bring up sex..."
> 
> But this is simply avoiding conflict, and it won't help you in the long run.


It's unrealistic to think that he should want to have sex every time I want to, because I know I am Over Drive. I know constantly asking him gets annoying. So it's not that I don't want to ever bring it up again to avoid conflict, but I'm happy I don't have to ask every other day like I used to.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



KanDo said:


> I really am not understanding the dynamics of your sexual relationship very well. Your husband clearly has desire. He was asking for oral sex on the hike and quickies on the days before your trip. So it is not like he doesn't have like or want sex.
> 
> *He does want sex. But mostly for his gratification. He will gladly take a blow job or a quickie because HE doesn't have to do anything or put any effort in. He just wants to be satisfied without worrying about my feelings or needs.*
> 
> On your anniversary trip you talk about a sexual encounter where you climaxed but the encounter lasted only 5 minutes so you aren't satisfied...
> 
> So, how much time do you usually need to "get over the waterfall"? Do you take like an hour or more normally? AFter you came in 5 minute, was the rodeo over? Did the two of you not continue to please each other or cuddle?
> 
> *I wasn't not satisfied when I only lasted 5 minutes. I was unsatisfied because that's pretty much all the loving I got on our entire anniversary trip. I was imagining massages and long love sessions, not a 5 minute quickie only. I was satisfied while we were having the sex, but the trip as a whole was pretty unsatisfying.
> 
> By myself I take only a couple minutes. With him our entire session probably averages 20 or 30 minutes for both of us including foreplay and clean up.
> 
> After I come the show is over. He immediately stops and we do very quick PIV and then clean up. There is no cuddling or continued foreplay. He likes to get right down to "the fun part" as he calls it.*
> 
> 
> In some ways, I wonder if your desire for sex might be a general need for intimacy that your not getting (and could be met with other activities beside an exhausting episode of the horizontal mambo).
> 
> If you actually take a long time, consider starting without the hubby and calling him in for the final inning, or using toys to accelerate your climax. A guy that gets bored during sex should prompt a change so that you both are in the game. Maybe switch to a 69 position or move to mutual masturbation to get him back into the fray.
> 
> *He will NOT let me bring in toys. I've brought this up over and over and over. Especially during on anniversary trip. I think it would be beneficial because I would go quicker so he wouldn't get bored. But he wants nothing to do with it. He thinks if we used toys he wouldn't be able to get me there with just his hands anymore. He says he doesn't need help.
> 
> I often give him oral while he is rubbing me, a modified 69 where he doesn't use his mouth. That doesn't seem to make him any less bored or anymore enthused. *
> 
> Reading your story really makes me think there is more here. A sex therapist might be of help. Start reflecting on intimacy in your relationship including other things besides sex. I think you will find there is a void there as well
> 
> just my not so humble opinion.......


I also agree that I am lacking in non sexual intimacy, which I'm trying to fill with sex. I have no idea how to fix that though. I try to hold hands, snuggle, kiss, touch... I'm usually flat out rejected, the same as sex, or else it lasts about 1 minute and he goes to do something else.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Your post made me realise I feel the same way sometimes. Two years later than you... there are days when I want to snuggle, be touched, who wouldn't? It's human nature.

I also used to measure all intimacy based on sex. Going without it for a long time helped me to appreciate the non-sexual intimacy a lot more. I"m kinda grateful for that. I learned to love myself a lot more, and I'm much happier not being so frustrated based on someone else's actions. 

I truly do think that if you stopped having sex altogether for a long period of time, things may become clearer. It may not turn out the way you had hoped, though.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



deejov said:


> Your post made me realise I feel the same way sometimes. Two years later than you... there are days when I want to snuggle, be touched, who wouldn't? It's human nature.
> 
> I also used to measure all intimacy based on sex. Going without it for a long time helped me to appreciate the non-sexual intimacy a lot more. I"m kinda grateful for that. I learned to love myself a lot more, and I'm much happier not being so frustrated based on someone else's actions.
> 
> I truly do think that if you stopped having sex altogether for a long period of time, things may become clearer. It may not turn out the way you had hoped, though.



This is how I feel too. Our life was so much less complicated before sex, this has really created a problem in our relationship. I often think it would be better if we were celibate. But I think the resentment would eat me alive. 

Last night before I left for school he wanted to kiss... then 5 minutes later, you guessed it, "a blow job sure sounds nice." 

He again pulled the, "i only got one blow job on your last period card again." That makes like the 5th time this month.

I didn't give in, and when I got home early and we had the entire evening together nothing else sexual was mentioned. 

*sigh*

I just don't understand his thinking process. We haven't had sex in 4 days, and crappy sex at that. And instead of thinking, "hey I'd really like to do it." The only thing he thinks about is a blow job. It just frustrates me so much that when he is horny, he only thinks about himself even though he knows I'm even more horny than him. 

I would never reject him for a week then say "hey how about you rub me to orgasm real quick with nothing for you." It's selfish and rude. But yet he has no problem with asking the same for him. 

In other news I think he is missing intimacy as well. He spooned me all night long. Usually he sleeps as far away as possible, but he was actually on my side. It was nice.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This is how I feel too. Our life was so much less complicated before sex, this has really created a problem in our relationship. I often think it would be better if we were celibate. But I think the resentment would eat me alive.
> 
> Last night before I left for school he wanted to kiss... then 5 minutes later, you guessed it, "a blow job sure sounds nice."
> 
> He again pulled the, "i only got one blow job on your last period card again." That makes like the 5th time this month.
> 
> I didn't give in, and when I got home early and we had the entire evening together nothing else sexual was mentioned.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> I just don't understand his thinking process. We haven't had sex in 4 days, and crappy sex at that. And instead of thinking, "hey I'd really like to do it." The only thing he thinks about is a blow job. It just frustrates me so much that when he is horny, he only thinks about himself even though he knows I'm even more horny than him.
> 
> I would never reject him for a week then say "hey how about you rub me to orgasm real quick with nothing for you." It's selfish and rude. But yet he has no problem with asking the same for him.
> 
> *In other news I think he is missing intimacy as well. He spooned me all night long. Usually he sleeps as far away as possible, but he was actually on my side. It was nice*.


I'm glad you enjoyed that. My STBW and I spoon every night. I love holding her close, and she loves feeling my heartbeat. Doesn't matter if we have been arguing, if we did or did not have sex, it's one of my favorite parts of the day, falling asleep with my love in my arms.

Now for the pessimistic a$$hole in me...In your case, given his long term behavior, I would be questioning whether he really was missing the intimacy, or trying to manipulate you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I'm glad you enjoyed that. My STBW and I spoon every night. I love holding her close, and she loves feeling my heartbeat. Doesn't matter if we have been arguing, if we did or did not have sex, it's one of my favorite parts of the day, falling asleep with my love in my arms.
> 
> Now for the pessimistic a$$hole in me...In your case, given his long term behavior, I would be questioning whether he really was missing the intimacy, or trying to manipulate you.


I love it too. I feel so safe and close to him.

I don't think it was manipulation. I think it was sincere. He is a very hard and deep sleeper. He sleep talks, moves, and even sleep walks sometimes. He doesn't even know he is doing it.

He wasn't awake at all while he was spooning me, he just did it in his sleep. Otherwise I would have to agree with you.

Speaking of sleep talking. Two days ago he sat up in bed and said, "I'm not wearing the cussing flowers."

No joke.  I just smiled at him and asked him if he heard what he said and he was like, "Yes I did, and I'm not kidding. I'm not wearing them."

Then 2 minutes later he couldn't even remember saying that. It's hilarious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Still chugging along. Nothing bad to report, but nothing good either. 

It's the "fun time" again. So that's great. I know he is going to be expecting blow jobs again and I'm going to tell him no and we are going to blow up a big fight again. 

Part of me feels like just giving up with period week and giving him the blow jobs he wants and just stop wanting him to do anything to/for me during this time. No matter what I do he just won't, and denying him just makes me feel like crap. It's a lose lose. 

The rational side of me says no, don't give in, stick up for yourself. But that doesn't seem to get me anywhere either.

Why does sex have to be so complicated?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well - how about telling him for a month you will keep track of how many times he goes down on you vs how many times you go down on him and you will make quite sure those numbers are even. 

(I realize he hasn't been doing this for you so that would make the number 0 - or he could realize he could up his bj number by starting to participate in your sex life as a couple.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Well - how about telling him for a month you will keep track of how many times he goes down on you vs how many times you go down on him and you will make quite sure those numbers are even.


Sounds like a great opportunity for.... 

Captain Metric!!! able to leap tall buildings and scale large rivers after carefully measuring them... 

I would not do that to this level of detail. Next thing you know you'll be collecting data on foreplay time, excitability, and the like. Too clinical even for lab rats.

Numerical metrics tend to become like the SAT with no regards to the qualitative aspects they convey. Simply use the + . - scale and see where you're headed (pun intended)


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah - but he constantly wants oral from her but never returns the favor. 

I agree that keeping score isn't a good general rule but this guy isn't getting it.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Then more drastic measures are needed... Including recitation on the basics. If she desires more oral and he is not immediately interested I can think of a few positions to try and, lolz, save face  (subliminal hint)


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Yeah - but he constantly wants oral from her but never returns the favor.
> 
> I agree that keeping score isn't a good general rule but this guy isn't getting it.


And it's not just oral...he is more than happy to take his quickie, but leave her hanging when she wants hers. The sexual balance in this relationship is so out of whack...and as harsh as it is for me to say...TheCuriousWife let it get that way.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yesterday I brought it up again. I was horny as heck and so again we discussed him doing ANYTHING for me during period week.

He just said no it's period week. So I said I told him how he was being selfish. And asked if there was anything that would change his mind. He said no. I pushed for a reason to why he wouldn't. If he had any fears or phobias or something that we could work through. All he could come up with is, "He doesn't want to."

He can't even think of a good reason. But at least I now have a good answer for him when he pushes for a bj. When I tell him no and he asks why I can simply reply, "I don't want to." 

If it works for him, it should work for me...


----------



## CalBanker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yesterday I brought it up again. I was horny as heck and so again we discussed him doing ANYTHING for me during period week.
> 
> He just said no it's period week. So I said I told him how he was being selfish. And asked if there was anything that would change his mind. He said no. I pushed for a reason to why he wouldn't. If he had any fears or phobias or something that we could work through. All he could come up with is, "He doesn't want to."
> 
> He can't even think of a good reason. But at least I now have a good answer for him when he pushes for a bj. When I tell him no and he asks why I can simply reply, "I don't want to."
> 
> If it works for him, it should work for me...


Seriously, even during period week, if the wife came to me and asked, I'd be at the shower head so face getting the water going. Let's make red swirlies in the drain honey!!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My period has been super light the last couple months, so there probably wouldn't even be a mess. He is just being selfish. 

I'm past the point of feeling bad about not giving him blow jobs. Truly the only thing that is bothering me is that I'm craving to give him one. Not for him, but for me. I really enjoy it, and I'm sad that I can't do it because I don't want to go back to square one.

It's been 4 days since we had sex and he hasn't brought it up. I think I'm giving off a "back off" vibe. There isn't tension or anything though. We still have been snuggling in our sleep and being friendly. I think he is starting to realize that I'll snap if he asks again. 

Last night while watching a movie he was even playing around with with my chest. I was for sure he was going to get turned on and then ask, but not a word. 

What is lacking is kissing. We haven't kissed since we had sex. I think I may have gotten a good night peck before bed one day. That's it. It's sad that days go by and neither of us brings it up or initiates it. I think both of us are avoiding much intimacy.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"I think both of us are avoiding much intimacy."

Here is where the real problem lies.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> "I think both of us are avoiding much intimacy."
> 
> Here is where the real problem lies.


Well I don't know what to do about it. We've already argued about it once this week. I'm out of breath. It just doesn't get through. 

I don't see how being miserable and bringing it up everyday and fighting about it would make anything better.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You are miserable nearly every day anyway (except on sex days). I don't see how honest communication and setting boundaries could hurt. I know you feel you are doing those things...but you really aren't or else the boundaries would be being obeyed him. When you have a REAL boundary, it will be obeyed.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I don't know what to do about it. We've already argued about it once this week. I'm out of breath. It just doesn't get through.
> 
> I don't see how being miserable and bringing it up everyday and fighting about it would make anything better.


You will eventually completely tire of it, become indifferent to it, no longer care, and that is when you will know your marriage is dead.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I expect sexual equality and reciprocity. You have three months to meet me half way. If you do not, I will be filing for divorce.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> You are miserable nearly every day anyway (except on sex days). I don't see how honest communication and setting boundaries could hurt. I know you feel you are doing those things...but you really aren't or else the boundaries would be being obeyed him. When you have a REAL boundary, it will be obeyed.


Actually I don't feel miserable at this time. I feel... indifferent. At this point I'm in an okay place. I'm not clinging to him, and I'm not hanging on his every word and action. Meh. Is a good word to describe it. 

Believe it or not with everything else in my life I am a very independent person. Only with sex and intimacy do I feel dependent, and even that is thinning. 

We have honest communication. I don't beat around the bush anymore. I straight up told him I was horny and he was selfish. I've also made it known that I'm not okay giving him blow jobs and him not giving anything back in return.

I'm unclear to what boundaries you think I should set? I can't make him do anything. He's an adult, and I'm not his mother.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> *I expect sexual equality and reciprocity. You have three months to meet me half way. If you do not, I will be filing for divorce*.





TheCuriousWife said:


> Actually I don't feel miserable at this time. I feel... indifferent. At this point I'm in an okay place. I'm not clinging to him, and I'm not hanging on his every word and action. Meh. Is a good word to describe it.
> 
> Believe it or not with everything else in my life I am a very independent person. Only with sex and intimacy do I feel dependent, and even that is thinning.
> 
> We have honest communication. I don't beat around the bush anymore. I straight up told him I was horny and he was selfish. I've also made it known that I'm not okay giving him blow jobs and him not giving anything back in return.
> 
> *I'm unclear to what boundaries you think I should set? I can't make him do anything. He's an adult, and I'm not his mother*.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I expect sexual equality and reciprocity. You have three months to meet me half way. If you do not, I will be filing for divorce.


Honestly I'm not there yet.

Most of the selfishness and him not reciprocating is only during period week. But I think I'm doing pretty good at my resolve and working on that. He isn't improving at reciprocating, but at least with me not giving in either I don't feel like I'm being taken advantage of. It's his choice if he'd really rather not have sex at all because he won't give in return.

Most days he does care about my needs and feelings. If we have sex any other time of the month he does try to make sure I get mine. It's just his general meh attitude about sex that bothers me. He's never enthusiastic. 

But I can't change his personality. If I bring it up he just says he does care and he does satisfy me. He doesn't understand how I need more than just the physical release. But I'm not sure how to explain it any more clearer than I have, and I've tried.

I also don't think at this time it's bad enough for divorce. We do have sex 2 or 3 times a week. It's the quality I don't like. But I love this man. I made a vow under God to stay with him.

And while I may not be able to always keep that promise I'm going to try my darn hardest.

I also feel I would lose much more than I would gain, by ending our relationship. Despite poor quality sex everything else in our lives is pretty great.

It's all just such a mess.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So this is not a deal breaker for you yet?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's not a deal breaker yet. I put too much time into this relationship to flush it all away now.

I know you guys think I am stupid, or not willing to really make him change. But I want this man in life.

Divorce is not an option at this time.

But I'd be willing to try just about anything but.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

There is no way you can have the relationship you want until you are willing to give up the relationship you have.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> There is no way you can have the relationship you want until you are willing to give up the relationship you have.



Those are wise words.

But truthfully I'm not willing to give it up.  As crappy as it is sometimes. It makes me sick to think of living my life without him. We've had so many good memories together, and I look forward to so many more. 

Growing up my father was very mentally abusive. Lots of screaming and crying and it was horrible. I hated nearly every minute of my childhood, as sad as that is. Even now sometimes it's hard for me to be around him, especially if he's in a "mood."

My husband was my escape. He was so different than my father. Calm, and loving. I couldn't wait until the day I could get out. The happiest moments in my entire life were spent with my husband. 

As bad as it is sometimes, and as sad and miserable as I get, nothing my husband has ever done that has hurt me, has ever been as painful as what my father did to me. 

That's the sad truth. So maybe I am a doormat. Maybe I am "used" to it. Maybe I settled. But my life has never been normal, and my problems now are the best I've ever had.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Those are wise words.
> 
> But truthfully I'm not willing to give it up.  As crappy as it is sometimes. It makes me sick to think of living my life without him. We've had so many good memories together, and I look forward to so many more.
> 
> Growing up my father was very mentally abusive. Lots of screaming and crying and it was horrible. I hated nearly every minute of my childhood, as sad as that is. Even now sometimes it's hard for me to be around him, especially if he's in a "mood."
> 
> My husband was my escape. He was so different than my father. Calm, and loving. I couldn't wait until the day I could get out. The happiest moments in my entire life were spent with my husband.
> 
> As bad as it is sometimes, and as sad and miserable as I get, nothing my husband has ever done that has hurt me, has ever been as painful as what my father did to me.
> 
> That's the sad truth. So maybe I am a doormat. Maybe I am "used" to it. Maybe I settled. But my life has never been normal, and my problems now are the best I've ever had.


My heart breaks a little bit more for you with each new thing I learn about you 

Are you codependant?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> My heart breaks a little bit more for you with each new thing I learn about you
> 
> Are you codependant?


There is no reason to feel sad for me. A lot of people has had it worse than me I'm sure. I was never physically or sexually abused, and for that I can be thankful.


As I've stated before I'm actually a very independent person in most of life. I prefer to be alone, and do things my way. I could probably live out in the wilderness and be perfectly fine. lol.

I do think I have become a little codependent on people as I get older. Especially people who "matter" to me. I never really felt accepted by my father. So I think part of me is constantly looking for acceptance, and wanting to please or make people happy.

Such as if I upset someone , or hurt someones feelings I will literately cry over it. I am really bothered by what people think of me. But not everyone. Just people who are "important." I could careless about what a stranger thinks. But I strongly care about what friends or family thinks. 

If someone scolds me, such a my boss I feel like a failure. 

Little things like that I've noticed over the years.

That's part of what attracted me to my husband in the first place. He has never raised his voice at me. 

I can barely stand a raised voice. It's a trigger to childhood memories I'm sure.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It drives my husband crazy because if he (or someone else) says a harsh word to me or scolds me, I'll say, "Please don't yell at me."

And he always just rolls his eyes, and says, "For pete's sake I'm not yelling." 

Which of course he isn't, but I relate any type of scolding as yelling in my brain for some reason.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Some of the things you have said, and now with the revalation about your childhood and relationship with your father, your husband was your escape, your rescuer. The need to please with no regard for your own needs. If you and your husband were not together for what ever reason, do you feel as if you would need to have the companionship regardless of who it was?


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Which of course he isn't, but I relate any type of scolding as yelling in my brain for some reason.


This is likely why you are having trouble getting your H to understand your attempts at setting boundaries. You are probably saying it with no power behind your words, because you don't want to seem like you are "yelling".

I believe I had suggested to you before that you get some assertiveness training.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Some of the things you have said, and now with the revalation about your childhood and relationship with your father, your husband was your escape, your rescuer. The need to please with no regard for your own needs. If you and your husband were not together for what ever reason, do you feel as if you would need to have the companionship regardless of who it was?


No I don't think I would need companionship. If husband and I didn't/don't work out, I would have no problem living alone. 

At this current time I don't really have any friends. I've always been a loner, and had planned on staying a loner if it wasn't for husband coming into my life.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is likely why you are having trouble getting your H to understand your attempts at setting boundaries. You are probably saying it with no power behind your words, because you don't want to seem like you are "yelling".
> 
> I believe I had suggested to you before that you get some assertiveness training.


This is quite possible. A lot of things I say in general, I say unconfidently, or pose them kind of as a question. I'm always looking for reactions or responses.

I think I am getting a lot better when I speak to husband, especially about sexual matters. But next time we talk I will keep a close eye and see if I'm being assertive or timid.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious: Just now read thru your thread. Did not read it all, but enough to want to point out the following:

1. I think you need to rethink the "he isn't gay" idea. While it is very possible you are correct, that he isn't, he sure shows a lot of the signs. His job does not disqualify him, being a manly man doesn't either. 
2. At the very LEAST he is a VERY SELFISH S.O.B. The only time I have read where he did anything FOR you, was when if he didn't HE was going to lose something. A man that loves his woman wants to please her. I myself enjoy pleasuring my woman a lot of the times more than getting pleasure myself. Don't get me wrong, I love having an O, but always make sure "she goes first" that is love, that is attention. To only be about "how about a bj" shows a shallowness, a callousness that is foreign to anything I have ever felt in a loving relationship.
3. I wonder if he has a medical problem, you could find out, have an answer to your questions, except for the first line in #2.
4. What your whole problem boils down to is, "He has no control over you, except what you give him." YOU allow what is happening, plain and simple. All these give it, take it away, games you have been doing are NEVER going to get you what you want, because he KNOWS you are going to give him what he wants because, "first line of #2".
Your only real option is to improve yourself. As for "I cant afford IC" that's BS. Where there is a will there is a way. Until you "grow some balls" you are never going to move forward. I feel for you, I really do. You sound like a great woman, who only wants what should be freely given. Your problem is you have hooked up with the wrong guy, and don't have the guts to change....you. He knows this as well, which is WHY HE MARRIED YOU. What ever you do, DO NOT HAVE ANY CHILDREN WITH HIM, until you are sure this is how you want to live your life. Once kids come into the picture, you will loose all leverage, the misery will REALLY start up.
Continue this thread, but do yourself a favor. Read your posts from beginning to end, over and over. And next year when nothing has changed, ask yourself why this is? Maybe something will click for you, I sure hope so. But if it doesn't, don't blame him, blame the person who made that choice.....YOU.
Sorry to be so tough on you. But reading thru this has made me angry. Angry at him for treating a good woman this way, angry that people allow this to happen to them. I sincerely will be adding you to my prayers. Good luck to you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thank you for your time and advice Hoosier. I do appreciate it.

But AGAIN. He is NOT gay. End of story.

I am trying to work on myself. Thank you for the reminder. I will continue to do so.

No children in the forecast anytime soon. 

I also want to clear up that he didn't marry me because he thought he could away with stuff or whatever. I truly believes he loves me. His intent is never to hurt me on purpose, and I still stick by that. Can he be stupid, selfish, and thoughtless. Yes. But he is not evil at heart. 

Thank you for the prayers.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I can relate somewhat to the things you are saying, curious.

My situation with my father wasn't quite.like yours - but my dad checked out when I was 10 due to circumstances beyond his control. He wasn't physically around because of hi job. He wasn't emotionally around because of.other responsibilities. He was stressed and irritable. I think nearly every interaction with him from ages 10-30 were walking on eggshells and staying out of his way and knowing he disapproved of me.

I dated a string of men that repeated this same pattern. He was so in love with me and so into me until the day he wasn't. He mentally checked out and I spent the remainder of the relationship trying to show my love and affection for someone who no longer wanted it.

My husband saved me as well - it felt that was at the time. He was and is my rock and my reality and he has always shown me love and consistency. So I felt I had succeeded in not marrying my father and had escaped from my childhood.

I'm quite a lot older than you - I don't think I realized until recently that I hadn't escaped as much as I thought. 

Hmm and both you and I had fathers who for whatever reason did not give us the love we needed and now have husbands who don't show us the physical love that we need. Curious. Or not. Really I feel both of us did the best we could and made the best moves available to us. However - that doesn't mean there isn't still miles to go in our own personal development.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh yes, and I have noticed on this board that all lower drive men are secretly gay. Who knew?! 

Jeez o Pete. Maybe all the lower drive women are lesbians too.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I can relate somewhat to the things you are saying, curious.
> 
> My situation with my father wasn't quite.like yours - but my dad checked out when I was 10 due to circumstances beyond his control. He wasn't physically around because of hi job. He wasn't emotionally around because of.other responsibilities. He was stressed and irritable. I think nearly every interaction with him from ages 10-30 were walking on eggshells and staying out of his way and knowing he disapproved of me.
> 
> I dated a string of men that repeated this same pattern. He was so in love with me and so into me until the day he wasn't. He mentally checked out and I spent the remainder of the relationship trying to show my love and affection for someone who no longer wanted it.
> 
> My husband saved me as well - it felt that was at the time. He was and is my rock and my reality and he has always shown me love and consistency. So I felt I had succeeded in not marrying my father and had escaped from my childhood.
> 
> I'm quite a lot older than you - I don't think I realized until recently that I hadn't escaped as much as I thought.
> 
> Hmm and both you and I had fathers who for whatever reason did not give us the love we needed and now have husbands who don't show us the physical love that we need. Curious. Or not. Really I feel both of us did the best we could and made the best moves available to us. However - that doesn't mean there isn't still miles to go in our own personal development.


Thank you. I know our stories are different. But I too feel they are a lot alike as well.

I was befuddled when I first read your story. I could just not believe how your husband could never touch you, and you hadn't spoken up in 18 years.

I realized now, things aren't always as easy as they seem.

I feel like you can probably relate to my story better than most here. My feelings are almost exactly the same as yours. We both married our rescuer, and although it's not all peaches and roses we aren't willing to throw in the towel. I really appreciate any input you have. 

I too believe we did/do the best we know how to. Despite other people thinking we are crazy.

I agree we have a long way to go, and I really hope us both the best.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> As bad as it is sometimes, and as sad and miserable as I get, nothing my husband has ever done that has hurt me, has ever been as painful as what my father did to me.
> 
> That's the sad truth. So maybe I am a doormat. Maybe I am "used" to it. Maybe I settled. But my life has never been normal, and my problems now are the best I've ever had.


Let me take your own words and restate them:

I am okay with him doing things that hurt me because others have hurt me worse in the past.

Please think about that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Let me take your own words and restate them:
> 
> I am okay with him doing things that hurt me because others have hurt me worse in the past.
> 
> Please think about that.


Do I think it's right to feel this way? No.

I'm just stating my true feelings. I didn't say they were rational. I realize how messed up it sounds.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We had a good breakthrough last night! :smthumbup:

Yesterday it started when he wanted to take a shower with me. He generally hates showering with me, so I knew it was a ploy to get me to give him a blow job, which frequently happens when we shower together.

Well we got in, and he did ask for one. I told him no, "I don't want to." That upset him, but I think he got the point. He asked me to please get out of his shower. And I thought oh great, so the war begins. 

I refused to let this day go on like all the others so I decided to kick it up a notch. Several times through out the day, I pushed him down and climbed on top and started kissing him. I thought he would fight me, so my made my "attacks" swift and surprising and caught him off guard. Because I know he does enjoy a good make out session and wouldn't push me off. 

I did this several times... in the kitchen, or straddling him while he watched tv on the couch. I would passionately kiss him for a few minutes, not saying a word. Every time he would ask for a blow job, I just got up and smiled and walked off to do something else. 

He would say things like, "If only you weren't icky right now, I'd...." or "Maybe if your not so icky tomorrow we can do it."
So I could tell he was slowly adjusting to the idea.

Finally later in the evening we were getting particularly frisky in the bedroom. He asked me if I would take off my shirt if he would take off his pants.

 Oh no I thought. My plan failed and he was still going to insist for a blow job. I guess he seen the panic in my eyes because he promised he wouldn't ask for a blow job. 

We romped some more and things were getting pretty heavy. Finally he sat up and said, "I can't take it anymore. Go shower." 

I said I don't know, I didn't want him to gross out, or whatever. And he pleaded.

So I got cleaned up and he rubbed me while I gave him oral. It felt so good. After I was done, he asked if I could finish him orally because I was doing so good. (I'm not sure if he was really enjoying it that much, or he was just scared of getting icky on him. lol) But I said sure, anything he would like. 

In the end because of the really extended foreplay, we both had really good orgasms. It was great, and we both had a lot of fun.

There was also no mess what so ever, so that was another thing to convince him it's not so bad.

So I'm hoping maybe his has swayed him mind a little about having sex during cranky time. 

Even if it has done nothing in the long run, I seen a little glimmer of hope. I'm so glad I stood up for myself, and demanded my way. It ended up being good for both of us.

I think the best part about yesterday was that I didn't say one word about having sex. I let my actions show how I was feeling, and I made myself irresistible. I will be trying this approach in the future.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

After a good sexual experience that's all I can think about, and I can't wait to repeat it. It doesn't seem to matter if we have good sex or not to him, after it's over the next day is like it never happened and I have to start all over again.

I took a final yesterday and got off really early. I texted him on the way home about being ready for fun when I got there. No response.

When I arrived home he was laying on the couch half asleep. It was very early. I grinned at him and made some flirtatious comments. He said he was tired and how about Wednesday. We hadn't had PIV so I thought he'd be climbing the walls by now, but nope. 

I brushed it off and went and showered and put on lingerie. When I came out he was still laying on the couch, and instead of seeming enthused at my attire he literately said, "ugh." 

That stings a little. I ignored it, and did some more flirting. He continued watching tv for a few minutes and I just left to read a book, thinking it was all over. I decided to drop it because at this point I'd rather have no sex than forced sex.

He did come to bed after a few minutes and we snuggled for a while. I told him I'd rather not do it if he was tired and was going to fall asleep or not be into it. But I know he feels a duty to perform if I put on lingerie, since the bad rejection experience a few months ago. So he insisted,

It was awkward by this point. Neither of us knew how to get it going from there when it was apparent he wasn't into it. 

He did eventually get warmed up and got the ball rolling. The finish was good, but the general act and foreplay was pretty lame. 

It's hard to describe, but often times there is a lack of passion, enthusiasm, and spontaneity. It's all just me wanting, and him obliging. I want to be wanted too. It's very hard to get him there though, and most times it just seems like a crap shoot. I just never know what his mood will be like at the time. I haven't found a pattern yet that is consistent.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> After a good sexual experience that's all I can think about, and I can't wait to repeat it. It doesn't seem to matter if we have good sex or not to him, after it's over the next day is like it never happened and I have to start all over again.


He's not like you. He's has a lower drive, remember?



TheCuriousWife said:


> I took a final yesterday and got off really early. I texted him on the way home about being ready for fun when I got there. No response.


First clue he wasn't into it. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> He said he was tired and how about Wednesday.


Second clue he wasn't into it.



TheCuriousWife said:


> and instead of seeming enthused at my attire he literately said, "ugh."


Third clue that he *clearly* wasn't into it. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> That stings a little. I ignored it, and did some more flirting.


Yet you still continue and wonder why it stung? He was sending you a message in his first *3* responses, yet you ignored him.



TheCuriousWife said:


> Neither of us knew how to get it going from there when *it was apparent he wasn't into it.*


Really? He said that in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd response...



TheCuriousWife said:


> I just never know what his mood will be like at the time. I haven't found a pattern yet that is consistent.


He tells you he's not into it, you don't listen and there's no pattern? You are setting yourself up for disappointment by not listening to him. Clearly, he was not in the mood to begin with. Why push it?


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> He's not like you. He's has a lower drive, remember?
> 
> 
> 
> First clue he wasn't into it.
> 
> 
> 
> Second clue he wasn't into it.
> 
> 
> 
> Third clue that he *clearly* wasn't into it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you still continue and wonder why it stung? He was sending you a message in his first *3* responses, yet you ignored him.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? He said that in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd response...
> 
> 
> 
> He tells you he's not into it, you don't listen and there's no pattern? *You are setting yourself up for disappointment by not listening to him*. Clearly, he was not in the mood to begin with. Why push it?


I agree that she is consistantly setting herself up for disappointment, but she is hurting because she IS hearing him loud and clear. She just continues to set herself up, and even when things go along the way she wants them too, she is still left feeling empty because she knows it is at least in part duty, and that he is simply not as into her as she is into him.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I agree that she is consistantly setting herself up for disappointment, but she is hurting because she IS hearing him loud and clear. She just continues to set herself up, and even when things go along the way she wants them too, she is still left feeling empty because she knows it is at least in part duty, and that he is simply not as into her as she is into him.


He seems into her, but doesn't want to have sex daily. Am I getting this right? I have read the whole thread, but have forgotten lots of it...


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Do I think it's right to feel this way? No.
> 
> I'm just stating my true feelings. I didn't say they were rational. I realize how messed up it sounds.


Good. 

So now what are you going to do about this?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I agree that she is consistantly setting herself up for disappointment, but she is hurting because she IS hearing him loud and clear. She just continues to set herself up, and even when things go along the way she wants them too, she is still left feeling empty because she knows it is at least in part duty, and that he is simply not as into her as she is into him.



The reason I continued last night was because when we've had talks about it before he told me he took a while to "warm up" and that he had responsive desire. He realizes he almost always says no, then thinks about it for a few minutes and decides he does want to.

When he used to tell me no, I wouldn't pressure him. I'd take his first clue as rejection, then he'd decide he'd want to do it, and we'd both be unhappy. 

We both agreed that I should wait a little longer before counting it as rejection. Which is exactly what I did. I tried 3 times, and he wasn't into it, so I went to do something else. Then he decided he did want to do it. Case in point.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> He seems into her, but doesn't want to have sex daily. Am I getting this right? I have read the whole thread, but have forgotten lots of it...


I don't ask for daily sex. Sex is usually initiated every 2 or 3 days, but not always by me. 

And when it's early evening, and we aren't doing anything I don't understand why there is any reason we shouldn't be having sex. Especially when it's been a week.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I admire Curious Wife for being so persistent. I have pretty much given up initiating. Her persistence shows, to me anyways, that her interest is not just in the sex but sex with him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> He's not like you. He's has a lower drive, remember?
> 
> First clue he wasn't into it.
> 
> Second clue he wasn't into it.
> 
> Third clue that he *clearly* wasn't into it.
> 
> Yet you still continue and wonder why it stung? He was sending you a message in his first *3* responses, yet you ignored him.
> 
> Really? He said that in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd response...
> 
> He tells you he's not into it, you don't listen and there's no pattern? You are setting yourself up for disappointment by not listening to him. Clearly, he was not in the mood to begin with. Why push it?



Why push it? Because I don't think he should be the gatekeeper to our sex life. I don't think it should always be up to him if we have sex or not. Just because he is feeling lazy. 

If he has a good excuse like he needs to get up early, or he is legitimately tired. Then I understand and it's fine.

But when he's spent the entire evening laying on the couch, I don't see that as a good reason to say no.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't ask for daily sex. Sex is usually initiated every 2 or 3 days, but not always by me.
> 
> And when it's early evening, and we aren't doing anything I don't understand why there is any reason we shouldn't be having sex. Especially when it's been a week.


Apologies. I misunderstood you opening statement.

*After a good sexual experience that's all I can think about, and I can't wait to repeat it. It doesn't seem to matter if we have good sex or not to him, after it's over the next day is like it never happened and I have to start all over again.*


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> I admire Curious Wife for being so persistent. I have pretty much given up initiating. Her persistence shows, to me anyways, that her interest is not just in the sex but sex with him.


Thanks. 

I go in spurts. Some days I'm too scared of rejection to even mention anything sexual, including dirty jokes, or light flirting. 

Other days I'm horny darn it, and I decide it won't kill him to put 20 minutes of time in. 

It does take it's toll though. I'm not as confident as I used to be. 

It also angers me that I often walk on egg shells around him, and can't express my true feelings. I can't mention how horny I am, or how sexy he looks in his jeans. If I say something dirty it is usually responded by him calling me a pervert. I always have to watch what I say.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Apologies. I misunderstood you opening statement.
> 
> *After a good sexual experience that's all I can think about, and I can't wait to repeat it. It doesn't seem to matter if we have good sex or not to him, after it's over the next day is like it never happened and I have to start all over again.*


No problem. I can see how it sounds.

What I meant mostly by that is, even after a good time I will never hear of it again. I'm practically glowing. But I don't think I've ever heard him say, "Hey, last night was fun." or "I can't wait to do that again."

It's just like it falls out of his memory.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The reason I continued last night was because when we've had talks about it before he told me he took a while to "warm up" and that he had responsive desire. He realizes he almost always says no, then thinks about it for a few minutes and decides he does want to.
> 
> When he used to tell me no, I wouldn't pressure him. I'd take his first clue as rejection, then he'd decide he'd want to do it, and we'd both be unhappy.
> 
> We both agreed that I should wait a little longer before counting it as rejection. Which is exactly what I did. I tried 3 times, and he wasn't into it, so I went to do something else. Then he decided he did want to do it. Case in point.


So in other words, you did exactly what he suggested, and like so many times before, with his other suggestions, and instead of feeling the rejection once, then having grudging sex, he rejected you three times and you had grudging sex.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No problem. I can see how it sounds.
> 
> What I meant mostly by that is, even after a good time I will never hear of it again. I'm practically glowing. But I don't think I've ever heard him say, "Hey, last night was fun." or "I can't wait to do that again."
> 
> It's just like it falls out of his memory.


Thanks CW. That is odd. I'm going to go back and reread this thread.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious Wife said: "It also angers me that I often walk on egg shells around him, and can't express my true feelings."

This is actually on your side, not his.

I know that might not make sense, but no one can "make" you walk on eggshells nor stop you from expressing your true feelings.

I still hope you check into assertiveness training.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I go in spurts. Some days I'm too scared of rejection to even mention anything sexual, including dirty jokes, or light flirting.
> 
> Other days I'm horny darn it, and I decide it won't kill him to put 20 minutes of time in.
> 
> It does take it's toll though. I'm not as confident as I used to be.
> 
> It also angers me that I often walk on egg shells around him, and can't express my true feelings. I can't mention how horny I am, or how sexy he looks in his jeans. If I say something dirty it is usually responded by him calling me a pervert. I always have to watch what I say.


Oh, I understand the impact of constant rejection. Still, you are trying and that is really all that matters. Marriages are like cars. The worst thing that you can do to either is just let them set and collect dust.

Until yesterday, I had made zero effort in initiating this year. That was my new years resolution and I stuck to it. Not sure now if it is something to be proud of.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> Oh, I understand the impact of constant rejection. Still, you are trying and that is really all that matters. Marriages are like cars. The worst thing that you can do to either is just let them set and collect dust.
> 
> Until yesterday, I had made zero effort in initiating this year. That was my new years resolution and I stuck to it. Not sure now if it is something to be proud of.


I've made a few resolutions like that. I won't initiate for a couple weeks. It doesn't actually seem to make any difference. It just makes frequency go down.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious Wife said: "It also angers me that I often walk on egg shells around him, and can't express my true feelings."
> 
> This is actually on your side, not his.
> 
> I know that might not make sense, but no one can "make" you walk on eggshells nor stop you from expressing your true feelings.
> 
> I still hope you check into assertiveness training.



I realize he can't make me do anything. But I can't only stand him calling me a **** or a pervert so many times before I start believing it and keep my mouth shut.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> So in other words, you did exactly what he suggested, and like so many times before, with his other suggestions, and instead of feeling the rejection once, then having grudging sex, he rejected you three times and you had grudging sex.


Yep. Pretty much. Triple the fun...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Thanks CW. That is odd. I'm going to go back and reread this thread.


Our entire sexual dynamic is odd.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've made a few resolutions like that. I won't initiate for a couple weeks. It doesn't actually seem to make any difference. It just makes frequency go down.


That was my experience. I did not initiate. No sexy texts. No notes. No flirting. Nada. Largely, the vacuum has been filled by her watching numerous TV series from start to finish and spending hours on facebook. At the moment, we stand at 7 times for the year.

Anyways, you are more stubborn than I am and that is hard to do so kudos!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW said: "But I can't only stand him calling me a **** or a pervert so many times before I start believing it and keep my mouth shut."

"Believing it" or "keeping your mouth shut" are not your only two options.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> CW said: "But I can't only stand him calling me a **** or a pervert so many times before I start believing it and keep my mouth shut."
> 
> "Believing it" or "keeping your mouth shut" are not your only two options.


I tell him that I don't like it, I tell him it's not true...

I cantell him and argue whatever, but it still doesn't get anywhere.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> That was my experience. I did not initiate. No sexy texts. No notes. No flirting. Nada. Largely, the vacuum has been filled by her watching numerous TV series from start to finish and spending hours on facebook. At the moment, we stand at 7 times for the year.
> 
> Anyways, you are more stubborn than I am and that is hard to do so kudos!


Oh wow! If I got below once a week, I'd be throwing stuff! I'd probably be throwing him out of the house, as well. 

I'm sorry about your situation. I'm sorry LD people are so selfish.

I don't deny him food, or decide I don't feel like cooking because I'm lazy. I see no difference with sex.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh wow! *1* If I got below once a week, I'd be throwing stuff! I'd probably be throwing him out of the house, as well.
> 
> I'm sorry about your situation. I'm sorry LD people are so selfish.
> 
> I don't deny him food, or decide I don't feel like cooking because I'm lazy. *2* I see no difference with sex.


*1* If it was up to him, you wouldn't get it your way even once a week.

*2* He does.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh wow! If I got below once a week, I'd be throwing stuff! I'd probably be throwing him out of the house, as well.
> 
> I'm sorry about your situation. I'm sorry LD people are so selfish.
> 
> I don't deny him food, or decide I don't feel like cooking because I'm lazy. I see no difference with sex.


I did not bring that up to have a pity party for me. I am just pointing out that you are stronger willed than I am. I have only been enduring this dry spell for 2.8 years and am considering moving on. You have dealt with this longer than I have and it seems that you have never considering moving on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> I did not bring that up to have a pity party for me. I am just pointing out that you are stronger willed than I am. I have only been enduring this dry spell for 2.8 years and am considering moving on. You have dealt with this longer than I have and it seems that you have never considering moving on.


My problems only started a little over a year ago. 

I love the little fart too much to move on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> *1* If it was up to him, you wouldn't get it your way even once a week.
> 
> *2* He does.


You are correct. That is why I don't leave it up to him.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My problems only started a little over a year ago.
> 
> I love the little fart too much to move on.


I thought that it had been going on longer, my bad.

This thread just goes to show that the HD vs. LD dilemma is not always HD Male and LD female. At least in your case, you get a strong reaction (even if it is rejection). I mostly get ignored or brushed aside. Your husband cares enough to get agitated.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> I thought that it had been going on longer, my bad.
> 
> This thread just goes to show that the HD vs. LD dilemma is not always HD Male and LD female. At least in your case, you get a strong reaction (even if it is rejection). I mostly get ignored or brushed aside. Your husband cares enough to get agitated.


He tries to ignore me. It's when I push that he starts getting nasty.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He tries to ignore me. It's when I push that he starts getting nasty.


The one time that I forced a discussion about this in 2012, she was as interested in the discussion as if I had been talking about the mathematics of a two-tailed Hypothesis test. In short, I was not able to really glean much and just walked away more annoyed than ever.

I guess what that says is that I am not as driven as i think I am and you are rather resilient. Good job in not giving up after the first push back.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I honestly didn't realize there are young men who have a low sex drive. I always thought that "sex" is all they ever thought about. I can't imagine being in your position TCW, so sorry you have to deal with this on a daily basis.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I honestly didn't realize there are young men who have a low sex drive. I always thought that "sex" is all they ever thought about. I can't imagine being in your position TCW, so sorry you have to deal with this on a daily basis.


I think it's common for most people to not know there is a lot of LD men out there.

It makes it all the more sad, because it's "normal" for a husband to not get enough sex from a wife, but it's unheard of for the wife to be unsatisfied by her husband. It labels us as some kind of freak. 

I think the rejection hurts more for a lady because there is so much stereotyping and joking about men only caring about sex.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think it's common for most people to not know there is a lot of LD men out there.
> 
> It makes it all the more sad, because it's "normal" for a husband to not get enough sex from a wife, but it's unheard of for the wife to be unsatisfied by her husband. It labels us as some kind of freak.
> 
> I think the rejection hurts more for a lady because there is so much stereotyping and joking about men only caring about sex.


Another very bad thing about the pervasiveness of that perception about men...when my STBW and I first started sleeping together, I had some ED issues, and it was something neither of us had ever had to deal with before. I understood the issue but she didn't. She had never encountered it before with any of her past partners and had no idea how to deal with it. She got angry with me, felt like I was not attracted to her. Her experience and everything she knew about men was that they are ready to go with the slightest change in the breeze.

Another big downside of this perception is that she never had to or chose to learn much about foreplay for men. Never had to care about getting the guy hard because they are always ready to go right?

Those attitudes not only affected things for me, but also for her. Sex is, or should be a two way street and when both partners are pleasuring each other, it is far better for both of them.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I remember reading about your struggles back then Sam. I'm glad you guys made it through and have something wonderful now. 

Your right though. I agree completely. It's a two way street. I don't know who first started this stereotypical crap, but they they need to be slapped. :2gunsfiring_v1:


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Men are more likely to talk about their sexual struggles. I think that part of this comes down to this stereotype. They can always paint the picture where they are the HD and the wife is simply not doing her job. Even if this is not really the case.

I will freely admit that in my early 20’s, I was too busy being pi$$ed off to care about sex. If I would have had a gf or whatever at that time, I probably would have used this excuse as a cop out. 

For a man to admit that he does not really want sex, is like saying that he wants his “man card” revoked. What would really be condemning to some is to say that they have an attractive woman practically hanging on them and that they can possibly turn her down.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It was a struggle for a while there and we have looked back on things and what we have learned about our bodies over the time we have been together, and there are things we could have done differently back then that would have made huge positive differences.

The important thing is that we have grown so close sexually, as well as all other areas, and the ED issues have not popped up for quite a while now. I still use the viagra most days, though the issue of not being ready to go right away sometimes is pretty much because we have sex so much.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Here a little humor for my sad situation.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with bitstrips. But it just a cartoon maker on facebook. This is what my husband posted yesterday.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I was so horny Wednesday. I tried flirting, and I tried kisses but he pushed me away and told me he didn't want to kiss. I didn't push any further, and I went to bed feeling sorry for myself. 

Last night was going okay. He did oral on me, which was hot. Then we had some other fun. Then he complained that his hand was hurting so he switched hands. Then it was just back to his "bored" rubbing. He was resting his head on my chest, so I couldn't even see him or touch him. I have lung problems and his weight was making it hard to breath. I asked him to get off several times and he would just shift a little.

I wasn't getting anywhere, and I could feel it fading, the more I thought about how it was just stupid for us to sit there in silence waiting for me, while he was bored.

I told him several times that I couldn't get there if he was just laying there, and while he was crushing me. He just said sorry but didn't make any changes.

So I made him stop, because I knew we were never going to get anywhere and there was no point in dragging it out. He was too unaroused at this point for PIV, so I just gave him a hand job. Boo.

Shamefully I went and showered and took care of it myself. I realized how sad it was that I wanted him to hurry so I could do it myself. 

It's getting harder and harder to have a good time without getting bad thoughts of him not enjoying it. It makes it nearly impossible to orgasm. I know it's my fault for letting those thoughts in, but I just can't help it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's been over two weeks now that I haven't been able to orgasm with my husband. 

I've been having some heart problems, and I'm kind of hoping that is the cause. But I doubt it.

It felt really great yesterday, but still got no where. It's so frustrating and I feel like a failure, and I'm sure he does too. 

Because it's taking so long, and because I don't get there he isn't aroused, and we've had to really struggle to get him finished. Hand jobs mostly because he is too limp for PIV or me on top.

I just want to have some good sex, where I can enjoy, and actually get to have decent PIV. Dang it.

It's getting to the point where I'm dreading sex because I don't want to have another failure, and I'm sure he feels the same way.

It just hasn't been fun recently, and every time it's getting harder and harder to relax. I don't know if I'll ever break this cycle.

Period week is just around the corner.... whoot... not.

Just feeling sorry for myself.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Man, I wish I didn't get what you were saying. We are sorry company, girlfriend!

I am LOL at your hoping heart issues are causing your problem and not boring sex. Hopefully it's just that aneurism causing my headache and not my annoying kids. Ha ha ha.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It's been over two weeks now that I haven't been able to orgasm with my husband.
> 
> I've been having some heart problems, and I'm kind of hoping that is the cause. But I doubt it.
> 
> It felt really great yesterday, but still got no where. It's so frustrating and I feel like a failure, and I'm sure he does too.
> 
> Because it's taking so long, and because I don't get there he isn't aroused, and we've had to really struggle to get him finished. Hand jobs mostly because he is too limp for PIV or me on top.
> 
> I just want to have some good sex, where I can enjoy, and actually get to have decent PIV. Dang it.
> 
> It's getting to the point where I'm dreading sex because I don't want to have another failure, and I'm sure he feels the same way.
> 
> It just hasn't been fun recently, and every time it's getting harder and harder to relax. I don't know if I'll ever break this cycle.
> 
> Period week is just around the corner.... whoot... not.
> 
> Just feeling sorry for myself.


I think you may finally be seeing the affects of having such a one sided sexual relationship. He's not given, or really tried to give you what you want, or really even make you feel like he was willing to meet you half way, so you are having physical issues now, and since he is not getting what he wanted, and is now actually having to pay attention to you and what you want sexually, he's having a hard time getting turned on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The sad part is I'm not so sure this is all worth it...

Just like MissScarlet has said before. 

Now we are both miserable, and I'm not sure it's any better than when I was the only one suffering.

I can't remember the last time we had good sex. It's all "maybe next time..." afterwards.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Man, I wish I didn't get what you were saying. We are sorry company, girlfriend!
> 
> I am LOL at your hoping heart issues are causing your problem and not boring sex. Hopefully it's just that aneurism causing my headache and not my annoying kids. Ha ha ha.


Sex is a complicated beast isn't it. At least we can have a pity party together.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If it were only as simple as some make it seem. Men are always charged up and ready to have sex. Yeah....good one.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The sad part is I'm not so sure this is all worth it...
> 
> Just like MissScarlet has said before.
> 
> Now we are both miserable, and I'm not sure it's any better than when I was the only one suffering.
> 
> I can't remember the last time we had good sex. It's all "maybe next time..." afterwards.


I was inspired to make my account after reading your story. I've been sitting here reading all 35 pages of the thread, and wanting to rip my hair out at some points. 

First of all it seems like you're trying to apply short term solutions to the problem, and get frustrated when they don't work longterm. Your husband has established a pattern for years now. So you break the pattern for a few days by refusing him head or hand jobs, you get positive results when he finally relents to have intercourse, and then you magically think it will last? Let me put it this way, just imagine you have a child that you feed three cookies to everyday. The child constantly misbehaves, finally you get upset and stop feeding him cookies for a few days, the child, annoyed that its normal pattern has been broken, starts behaving well, and you reward him with 3 cookies everyday, hoping that the experience has set him on the right path, but in reality you're just reestablishing his safe pattern, once again. Applying this kind of short term discipline to a child is the same as doing what you're doing with your husband. 

*Simply not giving in to him for a few days will not on its own change the long established pattern of this relationship.
*

Now, I understand the spectrum of sex is wide and differs from individual to individual, but in general, unless a guy has a massive hormonal imbalance or some substantial personality issue, when he is faced with a woman he 100% (or even 80%) desires he will want to have sex with her. Your husband seems to have a fairly decent sex drive, so the issue here is just to increase his attraction to you. The same way your husband craves hanging out with his buddies on daily basis or watching baseball, is how you want him to crave having sex with you. 

Now, when women give excuses for not wanting to have sex such as, "I'm not in the mood," most of the time we translate that to mean "I'm not in the mood to have sex with you." Because let's face it if John Hamm or Brad Pitt was standing right in front of her ready, you know she would be in the mood. SO let's answer this hypothetical question. Say your husband was single, didn't know about your existence, and a magical genie comes out of nowhere and tells him he can hook up with any female celebrity he desires. So he gets to pick any famous chick in the world, the most desirable fantasy woman. Who do you think it would be? Once, you answer that, think about how close you are to her in terms of looks, personality, etc. What does your husband find attractive?

One of the problems I see with your situation is that you could be making him feel emasculated with your demands of sex. Sure, sometimes we like when a woman takes charge etc. We like wanting mutual sex. But we also really like chasing something and having a perceived notion that it might fail. Men generally don't want to feel like their female partner has a higher sex drive. A lot of men like the idea of the woman being an object of their desire, not always attainable. (I'm not saying this is right, just something I've observed among friends). So not giving in all the time, having other more important things to do, making him feel like sex is not your priority are all things you could start doing. 

I saw that you mentioned him complaining about the smell of your lady parts. Now is he just squeamish or is that an actual problem? Most of us have had more than a couple of days when we didn't smell our best down there, but if it's a consistent thing then you should definitely not be embarrassed or upset about it but rather get it checked out by a gynecologist. 

I think that's all I have for now. I'm sorry for the long rant, but I just wanted to give my 5 cents. Best of luck to you. Keep us updated.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

There you go, Curious. You need only to cut your husband off and look like his favorite celebrity. You'll be on the path to daily sex in no time!

So, MeatTrain, are you saying you desire your wife because she plays hard to get and if she wanted to have crazy sex every day you would stop wanting to have sex with her because she was too available? 

I think you are doing a tad of over-generalizing here. Curious has done everything she can to try to fix the dynamic in her marriage and yet you are casting blame on her. Her husband is the one who doesn't seem to care if she gets off or has a good time or feels wanted at all. Where is the blame for her husband for not holding up his end of the bargain?


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> There you go, Curious. You need only to cut your husband off and look like his favorite celebrity. You'll be on the path to daily sex in no time!
> 
> So, MeatTrain, are you saying you desire your wife because she plays hard to get and if she wanted to have crazy sex every day you would stop wanting to have sex with her because she was too available?
> 
> I think you are doing a tad of over-generalizing here. Curious has done everything she can to try to fix the dynamic in her marriage and yet you are casting blame on her. Her husband is the one who doesn't seem to care if she gets off or has a good time or feels wanted at all. Where is the blame for her husband for not holding up his end of the bargain?


I apologize, I didn't mean to put the blame on Curious. I probably came off too strong, but only because I really feel for her situation and see that it's very painful for her to deal with. After reading 35 pages of her not properly standing up for herself the frustration just got to me and I wanted to give some useful advice. 

I'm not saying she's doing anything wrong. I'm saying if she wants to up her attraction level she might think about doing some of these or other things. I know these things are superficial, but a lot of sexual attraction is based on just that. I don't think we've covered any of these on this thread. Does he like the way you dress? Your hair? Your weight? Does he get annoyed that you're an introvert and he's an extrovert? Does he mind that you don't hang out with his friends? Does he mind that you don't have a lot of your own friends? These are basic things that can affect sexual attraction. 

And I agree, her husband is not being a team player, but I feel like he's gotten away with being lazy about this for so long now that it's just his natural pattern. And she isn't doing anything to break it or wake him up from it.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree that it seems he is taking advantage of her and she is left to pick up the crumbs he doles out. 

However, I'm sure she at first exhausted the superficial things like hair and clothing and weight. Certainly she can't control if she is introverted or extroverted.

It seems to me that when a husband is not getting sex from his wife - it's the wifes fault. But when a wife isn't getting sex from her husband it is still the wifes fault. It seems in either scenario the wife catches the blame (and certainly some women are to blame in either case.) A woman who denies her husband sex is a cold ***** - and a man who denies his wife sex must be gay or there must be something wrong with her. If you follow my meaning. There is a huge double standard it seems. 

If he has become lazy and is letting her carry the weight - further pandering to his desires and likes will just be more of the same, unfortunately. If she is already losing her self-esteem, dressing to please him and trying to change her basic nature in an attempt to attract him will just put her farther down that road, in my opinion.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I agree that it seems he is taking advantage of her and she is left to pick up the crumbs he doles out.
> 
> However, I'm sure she at first exhausted the superficial things like hair and clothing and weight. Certainly she can't control if she is introverted or extroverted.
> 
> It seems to me that when a husband is not getting sex from his wife - it's the wifes fault. But when a wife isn't getting sex from her husband it is still the wifes fault. It seems in either scenario the wife catches the blame (and certainly some women are to blame in either case.) A woman who denies her husband sex is a cold ***** - and a man who denies his wife sex must be gay or there must be something wrong with her. If you follow my meaning. There is a huge double standard it seems.
> 
> If he has become lazy and is letting her carry the weight - further pandering to his desires and likes will just be more of the same, unfortunately. If she is already losing her self-esteem, dressing to please him and trying to change her basic nature in an attempt to attract him will just put her farther down that road, in my opinion.


I get what you're saying but don't completely agree. Perhaps there is a double standard, but at the same time when guys aren't getting enough sex from their wives they're doing some of the same things I'm suggesting for Curious. There is a whole following of Athol Kay and his method of looking better, being more masculine, having a better job etc. So a lot of men who aren't getting fulfilled sexually are looking at themselves (at a lot of superficial aspects of them, like what they look like, how much money they make) and what they're doing wrong, trying to figure out why their spouses attraction isn't that strong. 

When I suggested the celebrity experiment, I wasn't doing it to put Curious down, but to make it easier for her to see some areas that she might be able to improve on in order to increase her attraction.

Guys don't get sex from their wives by whining, that's been proven over and over again. And Curious will not get sex from her husband by simply complaining to him about it. That's not how attraction works.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MeatTrain, I really have to disagree with a lot of what you said here, especially your generalizations. I'm not sure men, especially married men generally prefer the possibility of rejection, the thrill of the hunt over the sure thing.

More specifically the Curious' situation, she HAS already tried the things you suggested. She has had many conversations with her husband about what he wants from her, what would turn him on. He has brought things up himself, and every time she has given him exactly what he asked for, and then he just goes and changes it on her.

There is a lot more going on here than just her needing to 'Man up'.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Whew. A lot to respond to. 

I tend to agree with MissScarlet. I don't think I should have to change my looks, or my personality in hopes that my husband will find me more attractive. 

I'm certainly not a supermodel, and I've gained some pounds in the past year. But honestly I was pretty sickly before that, so I needed to gain weight.

I'm only 130 -135 pounds and 5'7". I have blond hair and blue eyes. I take care of myself. I don't think there is anything else I could do to improve my looks besides plastic surgery...

Besides the fact that I look exactly the same as I have our entire relationship. Why would he suddenly not find me attractive? Years into the relationship I shouldn't have to suddenly change my self to be more like his celebrity crush, because he is suddenly bored.

I still find him smoking hot, and he hasn't changed either. I'm glad he hasn't changed, I was attracted to him when we started dating, and I still am.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Our sexual relationship has only been going on for a little over a year now. Not years, and I've been having these same issues since day one, and trying to work on them. So it's not like I sat around being okay with it for years, and then decided I wanted better after his pattern was already set in. I've been fighting since the beginning. 

I also realize that yes, me pursuing him might be a turn off for him. But I'm sorry, I can't help it he feels emasculated. Maybe if he stepped up and would act like a man, I wouldn't have to be the one to bring up sex. But I can't just sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for him to finally decide he wants to be intimate while I just wait on his every word. I've tried that. I got no where except less sex.

About my smell I think I'm normal. I've had it checked out before, and they said everything was just fine. It's not like crazy strong, or horrible or anything. But since I'm the only girl he's ever been with I don't think he realized that all girls have their own scent.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't think her husband's sex drive has anything to do with TCW. Her husband would be the way he is with any woman. In my humble opinion, he is simply selfish and lazy. He's used to getting whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. His needs come before TCW and as long as his needs are met, he is happy so TCW should be happy too. 

TCW, is your husband the youngest in his family or an only child by chance?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree. I don't think it would matter what I do. He just is how he is. 

Nope he isn't the youngest, oldest, or an only child. He has 5 siblings too.

And honestly he isn't selfish with anything else. It's so weird. I'm generally the more selfish person.

I am the only child. Well sort of. I have two older step sisters, but they are around 20 years older than me, and were long gone before I came around. Heck they have children that are only a year younger than me. So I count myself as an only child.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> MeatTrain, I really have to disagree with a lot of what you said here, especially your generalizations. I'm not sure men, especially married men generally prefer the possibility of rejection, the thrill of the hunt over the sure thing.
> 
> More specifically the Curious' situation, she HAS already tried the things you suggested. She has had many conversations with her husband about what he wants from her, what would turn him on. He has brought things up himself, and every time she has given him exactly what he asked for, and then he just goes and changes it on her.
> 
> There is a lot more going on here than just her needing to 'Man up'.


I didn't mean to generalize. And I'm not saying married men enjoy rejection. I'm saying married men whose wives have higher sex drives than them, and approach them about sex daily, probably would enjoy a healthy dose of rejection. I'm pretty sure somewhere earlier in this thread I read Curious say that the husband did in fact tell her he likes to pursue her, and would like her to play harder to get.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *I agree. I don't think it would matter what I do. He just is how he is. *
> 
> Nope he isn't the youngest, oldest, or an only child. He has 5 siblings too.
> 
> And honestly he isn't selfish with anything else. It's so weird. I'm generally the more selfish person.
> 
> I am the only child. Well sort of. I have two older step sisters, but they are around 20 years older than me, and were long gone before I came around. Heck they have children that are only a year younger than me. So I count myself as an only child.


Okay, so nothing you do will change how he is because *"He just is how he is."* and it's been like this since the beginning of the marriage. I'm confused then, what are you expecting to get out of this forum? :scratchhead:Is it just a place to vent your frustrations? I thought you were looking for a way to improve the situation.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> I didn't mean to generalize. And I'm not saying married men enjoy rejection. I'm saying married men whose wives have higher sex drives than them, and approach them about sex daily, probably would enjoy a healthy dose of rejection. I'm pretty sure somewhere earlier in this thread I read Curious say that the husband did in fact tell her he likes to pursue her, and would like her to play harder to get.


Your right he did say that. So I only bring it up every other day, or even less. And most times now I don't outright ask. I just flirt a little, or kind of insinuate. Then I gauge his reaction. If he seems put off I try to let it go and not bring it up again. 

But I still don't like that I just have to wait around for him to decide he wants to have sex. It's not up to me at all.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Our sexual relationship has only been going on for a little over a year now. Not years, and I've been having these same issues since day one, and trying to work on them. So it's not like I sat around being okay with it for years, and then decided I wanted better after his pattern was already set in. *I've been fighting since the beginning. *
> 
> I also realize that yes, me pursuing him might be a turn off for him. But I'm sorry, I can't help it he feels emasculated. *Maybe if he stepped up and would act like a man,* I wouldn't have to be the one to bring up sex. But I can't just sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for him to finally decide he wants to be intimate while I just wait on his every word. I've tried that. I got no where except less sex.
> 
> About my smell I think I'm normal. I've had it checked out before, and they said everything was just fine. It's not like crazy strong, or horrible or anything. But since I'm the only girl he's ever been with I don't think he realized that all girls have their own scent.


I don't know, this doesn't sound right. Not a good start for a marriage. And not a good thing to say about the husband.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Your right he did say that. So I only bring it up every other day, or even less. And most times now I don't outright ask. I just flirt a little, or kind of insinuate. Then I gauge his reaction. If he seems put off I try to let it go and not bring it up again.
> 
> But I still don't like that I just have to wait around for him to decide he wants to have sex. It's not up to me at all.


It's been up to you the whole year though, hasn't it? And initiating every other day in this situation is still too much in my opinion. He really needs a stronger wake up call than that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Okay, so nothing you do will change how he is because *"He just is how he is."* and it's been like this since the beginning of the marriage. I'm confused then, what are you expecting to get out of this forum? :scratchhead:Is it just a place to vent your frustrations? I thought you were looking for a way to improve the situation.




I am here to vent, and for advice. 

I think there are ways that could help improve the situation. But I don't think changing my looks or my personality are it. I think the changes that need to happen are with him.

So I am looking for advice. On how to help him see that he needs to work on himself, and advice on how I can get through this.

But yes, a big part of this topic is just for me to vent. I need that release. It makes me feel better.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> It's been up to you the whole year though, hasn't it? And initiating every other day in this situation is still too much in my opinion. He really needs a stronger wake up call than that.


It had never been up to me. I get so horny I feel like I'm dying sometimes and he could frankly care less.

The only time when we have sex, is when he feels HE is in the mood, or HE wants an orgasm.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> I don't know, this doesn't sound right. Not a good start for a marriage. And not a good thing to say about the husband.


I'm sorry I'm being salty to you. I'm honestly just in a bad mood.

I really do appreciate you trying to offer advice and ideas. I just don't feel like some of them would work for this situation, or I've already tried them.

Please don't take me being cranky personally.

I just need laid.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am here to vent, and for advice.
> 
> I think there are ways that could help improve the situation. But I don't think changing my looks or my personality are it. I think the changes that need to happen are with him.
> 
> So I am looking for advice. On how to help him see that he needs to work on himself, and advice on how I can get through this.
> 
> But yes, a big part of this topic is just for me to vent. I need that release. It makes me feel better.


Okay, I have a better understanding now. I really don't mean to be hard on you, I hope you know that.

If this is your first year of marriage (or being sexual, not quite sure) then it is really very strange that he acts this way in bed. I mean he shouldn't be bored or annoyed by trying to give you an orgasm, unless it takes you two hours, which I'm pretty sure you said it doesn't. That's why I was looking at the physical aspects of it, maybe him not enjoying it or something. How old is he? He sounds kind of childish. Maybe he just didn't get a good sex ed.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm sorry I'm being salty to you. I'm honestly just in a bad mood.
> 
> I really do appreciate you trying to offer advice and ideas. I just don't feel like some of them would work for this situation, or I've already tried them.
> 
> Please don't take me being cranky personally.
> 
> I just need laid.


No, trust me, I'm not offended at all


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Also I've went several weeks without initiating before on more than one occasion.

It did not help or do anything. We had less sex, that's it. It didn't seem to make him desire me anymore. He just seems to completely forget about sex if I don't bring it up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Okay, I have a better understanding now. I really don't mean to be hard on you, I hope you know that.
> 
> If this is your first year of marriage (or being sexual, not quite sure) then it is really very strange that he acts this way in bed. I mean he shouldn't be bored or annoyed by trying to give you an orgasm, unless it takes you two hours, which I'm pretty sure you said it doesn't. That's why I was looking at the physical aspects of it, maybe him not enjoying it or something. How old is he? He sounds kind of childish. Maybe he just didn't get a good sex ed.


Married & Sexual. We were virgins when we got married.

We are both early 20's, and yes he is childish. I think he has a lot of maturing to do, and not just in the bedroom.

And no, he didn't get sex ed barely at all. I think his parents gave him a book? They never had the talk with him. So he was never told it's important to take care of your woman's needs, or anything else for that matter. I believe this is a big part of it. He honestly just didn't learn, or know, and any ideas of sex he has are just what he has assumed or heard from men joking around.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I didn't have an orgasm until probably 3 months into our marriage. He didn't understand that women need stimulation down there for an extended period of time. He would rub for about 5 minutes, then think he could "finish me" with PIV. It wasn't until I "accidentally" had one that he started spending more time on me.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Also I've went several weeks without initiating before on more than one occasion.
> 
> It did not help or do anything. We had less sex, that's it. It didn't seem to make him desire me anymore. He just seems to completely forget about sex if I don't bring it up.


That has largely been my experience with my LD wife. Weeks pass by and the topic of sex is just as meaningless as it was before. Oh, we have not had sex in three weeks.....next topic.

I have made no effort in initiating this entire year and besides conceiving a child, our five other sessions have been more a function of guilt/duty other than desire. Abstaining does not make the LD partner want you more as you know well.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Abstaining helps one sort out their feelings and with the detachment process...


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I didn't have an orgasm until probably 3 months into our marriage. He didn't understand that women need stimulation down there for an extended period of time. He would rub for about 5 minutes, then think he could "finish me" with PIV. It wasn't until I "accidentally" had one that he started spending more time on me.


When I first became sexual, I did not really care if my partner had an orgasm. It was nice, if they did but not a requirement. They never seemed to complain. It was later on after a 2.5 year celibate streak that I started to care. It was years after when during a fling I experienced how satisfying it can be when the woman gets off. Maybe it was growing up. I don't know. Maybe, that is part of the problem. The wife knows that I prefer to make it more about her than me. I focus my efforts on making it good for her. That probably puts undue pressure on her.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> That has largely been my experience with my LD wife. Weeks pass by and the topic of sex is just as meaningless as it was before. Oh, we have not had sex in three weeks.....next topic.
> 
> I have made no effort in initiating this entire year and besides conceiving a child, our five other sessions have been more a function of guilt/duty other than desire. Abstaining does not make the LD partner want you more as you know well.


Yep yep. If he isn't already thinking about sex, not bring it up does not help matters. It just completely removes it from his mind.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It is notable that perhaps his disinterest in sex went back way farther than your relationship. I haven't seen woodchuck around for a while but I do remember him saying he started reading up on how to please a woman at age 14, long before he had the opportunity. He had said he wanted to make sure if any woman had sex with him once she would come back for more. 

Even growing up in a sexually repressive religion and environment (sex was only referred to in negative terms and as fornication, it was a complete mystery that only married people knew about) I still remember reading what information I could get my hands on. Being curious about it all and giving it considerable thought from the time I was told about it till the present.

I consider if a man of average sex drive can reach adulthood never knowing about the female orgasm or clitoral stimulation and the like. What kind of sheltering or firewall of life protects a young man from the locker room talk and word of mouth about these things? Is it a sign of complete disinterest? 

Miss Scarlett would never, never make the same mistake again.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> What kind of sheltering or firewall of life protects a young man from the locker room talk and word of mouth about these things?


Men sharing Intimate sexual details in the locker room? Humm.

I doubt if kids are ignorant in the same ways as years ago, but I'm thinking there's still no big shortage of ignorance.



MissScarlett said:


> Miss Scarlett would never, never make the same mistake again.


Which is why books and movies about time travel are always popular. Often the story is that the same mistake isn't repeated, but instead some ironically oppositional or different mistake is.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I consider if a man of average sex drive can reach adulthood never knowing about the female orgasm or clitoral stimulation and the like. What kind of sheltering or firewall of life protects a young man from the locker room talk and word of mouth about these things? Is it a sign of complete disinterest?


While it has been a long time since I was a young man in the locker room at school, but I can safely say that while sex was a common topic, I can't recall female orgasms ever being discussed. Boys at that age brag about getting sex, not about getting their partner off.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In locker room type discussions guys want to present the image they know exactly what they're doing. Hence the fact, very little, if any, details are discussed. It may expose our ignorance.

...at least in my experience


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As others have posted, I’m pretty sure most locker room talk is not about how to pleasure a woman. All his friends were strong Christians and I honestly doubt they talked much about girls anyway. Him and his best friend were the more “wild” ones, and as you can tell they aren’t too wild. Many of them are in their 20’s and yet to have girl friends… They are focused on careers or college at this point. Most of them are very old fashioned and believe in having a stable job, and a house before dating. Which necessarily isn’t a bad thing, but I am saying his influences have been pretty restrictive. I don’t think he was “sheltered” per say, but his sexual knowledge is pretty low.

I had mostly the same friends, but I was like MissScarlet. I got my hands on every book and website I could find, and read read read. I knew all the secrets and tips since I was pretty young, preteen or earlier. He didn’t seek out knowledge, he just got what he heard in dirty jokes, whispers, and lock room bragging.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I did want to update about yesterday. 
Last night I really didn’t want to have sex. I’ve been dreading it for days, which depresses me. I knew he’d just rub for an hour and not get anywhere and it’d end badly just like it has for weeks. But he really wanted too. I’d rather just have a quickie and he not rub at all then both of us just end unhappily. So I we agreed on a quickie. I won’t lie, when I went and took a shower before, I cried a little. I was sad that it had come to this. I wasn’t too enthusiastic to say the least, and I wasn’t in to it. When we started kissing I think he knew why I was upset. He then suddenly wanted to not have a quickie, but I fought him when he tried to rub. I just wanted it over. He won out as usual. 
He seemed really into me, he dirty talked, and did everything that pushes my buttons. Needless to say we only lasted about 15 minutes. So finally the bad streak is broken.
I just don’t understand why he can’t always be into it. Why is it that only when he knows that I’m visibly upset does he really put an effort in. He must know what I like because he always seems to do it when I’m upset. It still seems to me that when I don’t want to have sex, or when I fight him that’s when he steps up his game. I just don’t understand at all. 
I only take like 5 minutes usually If he actually tries instead of bored rubbing. If he’d just put that extra effort in for a couple minutes, he wouldn’t have to rub and suffer for 45. You would think he’d see that.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry for the locker room comment I find myself incredibly frustrated this week over my situation and the frustration is leading to really deep, sickening anger. I had sexual.partners aside from my H but overall nobody asked, nobody tried, nobody seemed to have an idea of how to go about it. Its commen to know back and forth how conception occurs and about periods and erections and how people have sex but there are very important parts of sex that are very taboo to discuss and it pisses me off.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I did want to update about yesterday.
> Last night I really didn’t want to have sex. I’ve been dreading it for days, which depresses me. I knew he’d just rub for an hour and not get anywhere and it’d end badly just like it has for weeks. But he really wanted too. I’d rather just have a quickie and he not rub at all then both of us just end unhappily. So I we agreed on a quickie. I won’t lie, when I went and took a shower before, I cried a little. I was sad that it had come to this. I wasn’t too enthusiastic to say the least, and I wasn’t in to it. When we started kissing I think he knew why I was upset. He then suddenly wanted to not have a quickie, but I fought him when he tried to rub. I just wanted it over. He won out as usual.
> He seemed really into me, he dirty talked, and did everything that pushes my buttons. Needless to say we only lasted about 15 minutes. So finally the bad streak is broken.
> I just don’t understand why he can’t always be into it. Why is it that only when he knows that I’m visibly upset does he really put an effort in. He must know what I like because he always seems to do it when I’m upset. It still seems to me that when I don’t want to have sex, or when I fight him that’s when he steps up his game. I just don’t understand at all.
> I only take like 5 minutes usually If he actually tries instead of bored rubbing. If he’d just put that extra effort in for a couple minutes, he wouldn’t have to rub and suffer for 45. You would think he’d see that.


He knows why you are upset, and when you show that you are, he gets scared or worried. The same basic pattern of people only trying for a bit when called out on something, and then falling back to their true nature when the pressure is off.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious said: "I had mostly the same friends, but I was like MissScarlet. I got my hands on every book and website I could find, and read read read. I knew all the secrets and tips since I was pretty young, preteen or earlier. He didn’t seek out knowledge, he just got what he heard in dirty jokes, whispers, and lock room bragging."

This is the difference between a highly sexual person and a less sexual person.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I did want to update about yesterday.
> Last night I really didn’t want to have sex. I’ve been dreading it for days, which depresses me. I knew he’d just rub for an hour and not get anywhere and it’d end badly just like it has for weeks. But he really wanted too. I’d rather just have a quickie and he not rub at all then both of us just end unhappily. So I we agreed on a quickie. I won’t lie, when I went and took a shower before, I cried a little. I was sad that it had come to this. I wasn’t too enthusiastic to say the least, and I wasn’t in to it. When we started kissing I think he knew why I was upset. He then suddenly wanted to not have a quickie, but I fought him when he tried to rub. I just wanted it over. He won out as usual.
> He seemed really into me, he dirty talked, and did everything that pushes my buttons. Needless to say we only lasted about 15 minutes. So finally the bad streak is broken.
> I just don’t understand why he can’t always be into it. Why is it that only when he knows that I’m visibly upset does he really put an effort in. He must know what I like because he always seems to do it when I’m upset. It still seems to me that when I don’t want to have sex, or when I fight him that’s when he steps up his game. I just don’t understand at all.
> I only take like 5 minutes usually If he actually tries instead of bored rubbing. If he’d just put that extra effort in for a couple minutes, he wouldn’t have to rub and suffer for 45. You would think he’d see that.


I don't understand how you're surprised. He's already told you that he likes it better when you play hard to get. You saying no to him masturbating you is playing hard to get, it makes his brain think that when he gets you to say yes it is his idea, his doing, his initiating.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> He knows why you are upset, and when you show that you are, he gets scared or worried. The same basic pattern of people only trying for a bit when called out on something, and then falling back to their true nature when the pressure is off.


And also this, exactly. His pattern is called into question, and in order to restore it to normal he does what he knows will work on you.


----------



## dedad

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:scratchhead:

You can imagine how the husbands stuck with LD wives feel when they read a thread like this. 

Frustrating!!! How can the ones we pledge to spend our lives with be so inconsiderate to something that is so important to us. All that the LD spouse has to do is blame it on some stupid reason. Sometimes I just want to chop off the parts in question and feed them to a dog... 

Don't mean to make you feel worse, but in my opinion there is very little excuse for a man to be like this. Women have many more easy excuses - pregnancy, hormones, kids, lack of romance, this is how women are, blah, blah, blah,... Men don't have any real excuses (other than low T - easily fixable) to not deliver when their wife asks for it.

Sorry. Just venting.

Overall, it seems that there are less LD husband threads than LD wife threads.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

dedad: "Men don't have any real excuses (other than low T - easily fixable) to not deliver when their wife asks for it."


This is completely untrue.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I will say that there are fewer ingredients to male sexual desire than that of females. There is more to it than just T levels. I did not have sex for 2.5 years in my early 20's and largely did not miss it. I was too busy being pissed off to care for anyone else.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> dedad: "Men don't have any real excuses (other than low T - easily fixable) to not deliver when their wife asks for it."
> 
> 
> This is completely untrue.


I have to agree with dedad. There are only a handful of actual reasons that this would be happening like a huge hormonal imbalance (which there doesn't seem to be) or depression (again, doesn't seem likely), an insane amount of stress, performance issues or masturbation. None of these seem to apply to the husband.

It is very, very strange for a guy to act like that. I honestly think it must be an attraction issue. I mean obviously he's attracted to you, and he loves you, you guys are married and having sex on a somewhat regular basis. But clearly the sex is not a 100% for him, otherwise he would want to do it more often. I think you should explore the reasons why this might me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry MeatTrain, you're wrong. You just haven't been around and reading enough stuff to know it. There are just as many reasons for men to be LD as there are for women, there is plenty of research on this, and it is known that women have fewer avenues to seek help and support for this because - as this thread has shown - the "only" reason many people think this might occur is if the guy is gay.

Read this (and dozens of message boards where women are freer to express themselves) and then maybe you'll have a better understanding:

The Sex-Starved Wife: What to Do When He's Lost Desire: Michele Weiner Davis: 9780743266277: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Here's some more info:

Low Sex Drive in Men

The Many Consequences of Male Low Libido

Low Libido in Men: Causes and Remedies


----------



## Eagle3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious Wife without knowing your full story just want to say sorry to hear this. That really sucks for you and can see how you can feel anger and pissed off.

But i have to agree with Faithful Wife in that I am an HD person so i cant speak from a personal experience but to say there is no reason for that behavior is not really true. To me its crazy but i good friend of mine has told me before after 10 years of marriage he goes thru spells when he does not feel like having sex. Could be a number of things, his job, money, boredom with himself, but its true, he will say that when he walks in the door he hopes he can just get some dinner and go to bed for the night. Also his wife has chnaged. She used to be pretty LD but after she hit 40 she is a off the wall. He feels he having to put in a porn performance with her and that causes him to want to take a TO. I can see it with her. First 8 years i knew her she wsa quiet as a mouse. Last couple she talks like a sex therapist. Where i see that as a great situation, i am not in his shoes day in and day out and reading people here has opened my eyes to how a guy can be like that at times.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I'm sorry MeatTrain, you're wrong. You just haven't been around and reading enough stuff to know it. There are just as many reasons for men to be LD as there are for women, there is plenty of research on this, and it is known that women have fewer avenues to seek help and support for this because - as this thread has shown - the "only" reason many people think this might occur is if the guy is gay.
> 
> Read this (and dozens of message boards where women are freer to express themselves) and then maybe you'll have a better understanding:
> 
> The Sex-Starved Wife: What to Do When He's Lost Desire: Michele Weiner Davis: 9780743266277: Amazon.com: Books


The book you're talking about mostly deals with low sexual desire in men as related to a health issues or performance issues, two things I already mentioned. "You'll...learn methods for overcoming sexual dysfunctions such as performance anxiety, premature ejaculation, and effective ways for dealing with pornography or infidelity."

If we exclude this (because from what Curious said it isn't any of these reasons) what do you think is left?


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Here's some more info:
> 
> Low Sex Drive in Men
> 
> The Many Consequences of Male Low Libido
> 
> Low Libido in Men: Causes and Remedies


These also heavily mention health issues. If it's not that, then there's clearly another problem. Why is that so wrong to say?

When wives become disinterested in their husbands, after we exclude health issues, body image issues and the rest, we look at the attraction level. A lot of the times wives simply lose attraction to their husbands, which is something that's fixable. This shouldn't be an issue in her marriage since they've only been together a year, so perhaps they should look into the health thing. But to completely rule that out is silly.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Did you read that entire book? Really? Because no, the very few reasons you quoted are not the only reasons for males having LD.

Health issues are NOT the "main" issues actually...body image issues, emotional issues, intimacy issues are big ones...but the biggest issue is that men can be naturally LD just like some women are.

Curious' husband is naturally LD.

If you read around enough, you'll see more males like this out there in the world, and their HD wives complaining about it.

It isn't wrong to say that attraction may be an issue.

What is wrong is to imply that "no man would ever turn down sex because men just aren't like that". This is completely untrue, some men just have low libido NATURALLY and there isn't actually anything wrong with them.

Curious' husband is just not very sexual. He does have a sex drive, not as high as hers is, but he simply isn't as sexual of a person as she is.

Men are shamed for this if it is brought out into the light, by the way.

I've read many stories written by LD men who, once they understood that "men are supposed to be horn dogs" would make up locker room stories just to not be shamed in their peer groups.

The point is....

Here we are with a HD and very sexual wife with an LD (relative to her) and not very sexual man. This happens all the time. There is no "cure" for this. He just isn't that sexual and nothing she does or says will "change" or "cure" him because there's nothing wrong with him.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Did you read that entire book? Really? Because no, the very few reasons you quoted are not the only reasons for males having LD.
> 
> Health issues are NOT the "main" issues actually...body image issues, emotional issues, intimacy issues are big ones...but the biggest issue is that men can be naturally LD just like some women are.
> 
> Curious' husband is naturally LD.
> 
> If you read around enough, you'll see more males like this out there in the world, and their HD wives complaining about it.
> 
> It isn't wrong to say that attraction may be an issue.
> 
> What is wrong is to imply that "no man would ever turn down sex because men just aren't like that". This is completely untrue, some men just have low libido NATURALLY and there isn't actually anything wrong with them.
> 
> Curious' husband is just not very sexual. He does have a sex drive, not as high as hers is, but he simply isn't as sexual of a person as she is.
> 
> Men are shamed for this if it is brought out into the light, by the way.
> 
> I've read many stories written by LD men who, once they understood that "men are supposed to be horn dogs" would make up locker room stories just to not be shamed in their peer groups.
> 
> The point is....
> 
> Here we are with a HD and very sexual wife with an LD (relative to her) and not very sexual man. This happens all the time. There is no "cure" for this. *He just isn't that sexual and nothing she does or says will "change" or "cure" him because there's nothing wrong with him*.


Except for the fact that he'd be more than happy with a daily bj, hj, or quickie.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Did you read that entire book? Really? Because no, the very few reasons you quoted are not the only reasons for males having LD.
> 
> Health issues are NOT the "main" issues actually...body image issues, emotional issues, intimacy issues are big ones...but the biggest issue is that men can be naturally LD just like some women are.
> 
> Curious' husband is naturally LD.
> 
> If you read around enough, you'll see more males like this out there in the world, and their HD wives complaining about it.
> 
> It isn't wrong to say that attraction may be an issue.
> 
> What is wrong is to imply that "no man would ever turn down sex because men just aren't like that". This is completely untrue, some men just have low libido NATURALLY and there isn't actually anything wrong with them.
> 
> Curious' husband is just not very sexual. He does have a sex drive, not as high as hers is, but he simply isn't as sexual of a person as she is.
> 
> Men are shamed for this if it is brought out into the light, by the way.
> 
> I've read many stories written by LD men who, once they understood that "men are supposed to be horn dogs" would make up locker room stories just to not be shamed in their peer groups.
> 
> The point is....
> 
> Here we are with a HD and very sexual wife with an LD (relative to her) and not very sexual man. This happens all the time. There is no "cure" for this. He just isn't that sexual and nothing she does or says will "change" or "cure" him because there's nothing wrong with him.


I see what you're saying. Well if this is the case (although I have to say I don't exactly agree with you on everything) she should stop expecting him to "man up," like she mentioned in a statement somewhere above, and accept that she chose to be with a man who isn't like the stereotypical, virile dude. 

Also, I don't think a few times a week is low drive, so I think we're not properly categorizing him here. The main problem seemed to be that when they do have sex he isn't involved in trying to please his wife, he prefers quickies or blow jobs. This to me doesn't scream laziness, it screams of other emotional issues, perhaps loss of attraction, or them just simply not having the same idea of what good sex is, or him passively aggressively punishing her by not being involved with her pleasure after she makes him feel emasculated by initiating and "nagging" (I'm not saying this is what she's doing, but it could be what he's thinking) about sex. 

I'm not saying I have all these answers. I'm just trying to offer up a different point of view. The first few years of your marriage are typically the most sex you will get, so if she's unhappy now it's not going to get better unless some work is done to figure out the issue or establish that they're simply not compatible. Sitting around being frustrated that he's not pleasing you will accomplish nothing. Getting defensive and saying you don't think you should change anything about your looks because YOU still find him attractive therefore HE should feel the same, does not accomplish anything either. Not looking at the fact that perhaps your introverted personality doesn't mesh well with his extroverted one will not accomplish anything either. You either need to take action or accept that this is how things are going to be.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Except for the fact that he'd be more than happy with a daily bj, hj, or quickie.


Exactly. He's not low sex drive. He prefers the sex that's less emotionally involved, which suggests other issues, not a LOW sex drive.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wow lots going on here!

Sorry for the absence. Had a major snow here and was out of work (which is my source of internet) for 4 days. 

He may not be low drive, but he has a lot of strange things going on besides just being lazy.

I've never heard of another man in his 20's who can only orgasm every 24+ hours. Being naked doesn't arouse him. Groping him doesn't excite him, it makes him annoyed. 

You guys are spot on though. It's not the fact that he only wants to go every few days. (Which I still think is weird, but I can come to terms with it.) It's just the fact that he is so uninterested in anything sexual. 

I just wish I didn't feel like such a chore and a bore when I want to have sex with my husband. It's so emotionally draining, and sometimes I wonder what is the point of fighting. 

Maybe I should just stop putting any effort. I can have my once a week sex where we lay quietly next to each other while he rubs for a while, then does PIV for 1 minute, and we can go back to our lives for the week.

That just sounds so depressing to me.  But I'm sure that is what it would sink to very quickly if I wasn't constantly pushing. And I'm sure he would be completely fine with it and think it was normal.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How did you two meet, Curious?


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Wow lots going on here!
> 
> Sorry for the absence. Had a major snow here and was out of work (which is my source of internet) for 4 days.
> 
> He may not be low drive, but he has a lot of strange things going on besides just being lazy.
> 
> I've never heard of another man in his 20's who can only orgasm every 24+ hours. Being naked doesn't arouse him. Groping him doesn't excite him, it makes him annoyed.
> 
> You guys are spot on though. It's not the fact that he only wants to go every few days. (Which I still think is weird, but I can come to terms with it.) It's just the fact that he is so uninterested in anything sexual.
> 
> I just wish I didn't feel like such a chore and a bore when I want to have sex with my husband. It's so emotionally draining, and sometimes I wonder what is the point of fighting.
> 
> Maybe I should just stop putting any effort. I can have my once a week sex where we lay quietly next to each other while he rubs for a while, then does PIV for 1 minute, and we can go back to our lives for the week.
> 
> That just sounds so depressing to me.  But I'm sure that is what it would sink to very quickly if I wasn't constantly pushing. And I'm sure he would be completely fine with it and think it was normal.


See, this is what I just don't get and what doesn't add up.

A general question for you. Would he be happy with a daily no strings attached bj or hj from you?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> How did you two meet, Curious?


We met many times as kids. Same soccer team, same piano teacher, same church...

Then in grade school we went to the same school and I was best friends with his sister. It progressed from there.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> See, this is what I just don't get and what doesn't add up.
> 
> A general question for you. Would he be happy with a daily no strings attached bj or hj from you?


No I actually don't think he would. Maybe for a couple days, but he couldn't keep it up... literately. 

He has turned down a blow job if we have had sex the day before. Not as often as he turns down sex, but he honestly just can't orgasm every day, no matter what the means.

Also he does feel bad if I don't get an orgasm. Mine is a lower standard than his, but he does want me to have one probably every other time he has one. 

He says he cares about my feelings, and my orgasm, and he does "try" sort of. Just very lazily, and his expressions show that it's a bother. (sighs, falling asleep, general meh attitude)

It's so hard for me to understand what to do, when he tells me one thing and does another.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry TCW, I think as we've said many times he's probably not going to change. You're going to have to figure out how to cope with it or move on. In my marriage I found her LD was the result of other issues(understatement of the year) and found it best to move on. If you two have kids and involve more stresses of life, plus aging, its likely to get worse.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have not read the whole thread so don't know if Viagra has been discussed much. While I am not LD I am 52 and my sex drive is not what it used to be. But geez a little Viagra (I can take a 100mg tablet and cut it into quarters) and it really intensifies sex. Maybe I don't count though because I am pretty sure my d!ck could fall off and I would still love, love, love, giving my wife the big O by other methods just to watch her face. 

I don't know how other men react to it especially one that is LD because my understanding is that it does not make someone want to have sex. Though my guess is that the higher the quality of sex the more someone is likely to want it.


----------



## dedad

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,

I agree with the others. This is not going to get better, if that is your hope. If you don't have other overwhelming reasons to stay, it is probably best to get out.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Right now I'm just trying to learn how to cope. But it's hard.

I'll use last night as an example, about how his general mood is towards sex.

Tomorrow is my period, which means no intimacy at all for a week.

Last night we were both home by 5pm, I had dinner ready. He wanted to go make cookies at his parents but they called and said they weren't ready yet and give them at least hour. So I thought, oh goodie, time for sex before my period gets here. But no, he said how about when we got home. He said we could be home by 9. So he watched tv instead.

So we went and made cookies, and when we were done hejust piddled around there until after 10pm. Even though he spent the ENTIRE day before there. So it's not like he was visiting, or needed to stay there. He was just playing on their computer since we don't have internet at home.

So of course it was too late by then. I've been fighting a cold and felt like crap, but I'm really missing some intimacy so I tried to just feel him up a little while he was watching tv and I snuggled him. Of course he swatted me away as usual, even when I promised I wasn't trying to start anything I just wanted to rest my hand there because I was missing him.

He made some promises about how we will do it today. And I reminded him I have a final at school tonight and probably won't be home until 11, AND he volunteered to watch his niece so brother in law can go on a date night, and who knows how late they will pick her up. So no sex for me.  

He says, "oh don't worry, we'll get to have sex." But we won't, and he doesn't care. And I know it's the same as he always does and I expect it, but it still doesn't hurt any less.

It just bothers me how low sex is on his list of priorities. I'd move my schedule, or plan around sex, but he is the opposite. Sex is the very last thing that gets any thought, or any of his time.

I'm sure he will still want a blow job tomorrow though, and it's getting harder and harder to keep putting it off and turn him down. sigh.

Just feeling pessimistic.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry I have not read the whole thing so do not know if ED meds have been suggested. They seem to not just improve the hardness and longevity but also the quality and the higher the quality maybe the more he will enjoy doing it? I guess some men might be embarrassed to talk to their doctor about it but I think that being the husband your wife wants you to be is a good reason to try it. Also I find that I can actually divide a 100mg pill into four quarters and it still works fine so it is not that expensive particularly now that it has come off patent.


----------



## Eagle3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CuriousWife, sorry to hear that def sucks. To me it seemed he was delaying going home that night so could get out of it. You should have him talk to some of the people on here and hear how he is messing with your mind and needs. I also understand your issue with just the intimacy as that is what bothers me on my situation. Its not just the lack of sex that hurts its the laying together, the kissing, just signs of being wanted. I have gotten same as you when i would move over to do some light kissing and get the "we wont be able to do that tonight (insert some excuse).


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Right now I'm just trying to learn how to cope. But it's hard.
> 
> I'll use last night as an example, about how his general mood is towards sex.
> 
> Tomorrow is my period, which means no intimacy at all for a week.
> 
> Last night we were both home by 5pm, I had dinner ready. He wanted to go make cookies at his parents but they called and said they weren't ready yet and give them at least hour. So I thought, oh goodie, time for sex before my period gets here. But no, he said how about when we got home. He said we could be home by 9. So he watched tv instead.
> 
> So we went and made cookies, and when we were done hejust piddled around there until after 10pm. Even though he spent the ENTIRE day before there. So it's not like he was visiting, or needed to stay there. He was just playing on their computer since we don't have internet at home.
> 
> So of course it was too late by then. I've been fighting a cold and felt like crap, but I'm really missing some intimacy so I tried to just feel him up a little while he was watching tv and I snuggled him. Of course he swatted me away as usual, even when I promised I wasn't trying to start anything I just wanted to rest my hand there because I was missing him.
> 
> He made some promises about how we will do it today. And I reminded him I have a final at school tonight and probably won't be home until 11, AND he volunteered to watch his niece so brother in law can go on a date night, and who knows how late they will pick her up. So no sex for me.
> 
> He says, "oh don't worry, we'll get to have sex." But we won't, and he doesn't care. And I know it's the same as he always does and I expect it, but it still doesn't hurt any less.
> 
> It just bothers me how low sex is on his list of priorities. I'd move my schedule, or plan around sex, but he is the opposite. Sex is the very last thing that gets any thought, or any of his time.
> 
> I'm sure he will still want a blow job tomorrow though, and it's getting harder and harder to keep putting it off and turn him down. sigh.
> 
> Just feeling pessimistic.


And of course, when your period starts, he'll be ready for the period week festivities which include blowjobs and handjobs for him, and what exactly for you?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> And of course, when your period starts, he'll be ready for the period week festivities which include blowjobs and handjobs for him, and what exactly for you?


You betcha! 

Too bad he doesn't realize that he isn't getting anything.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> Sorry I have not read the whole thing so do not know if ED meds have been suggested. They seem to not just improve the hardness and longevity but also the quality and the higher the quality maybe the more he will enjoy doing it? I guess some men might be embarrassed to talk to their doctor about it but I think that being the husband your wife wants you to be is a good reason to try it. Also I find that I can actually divide a 100mg pill into four quarters and it still works fine so it is not that expensive particularly now that it has come off patent.


I would LOVE it if he would try something.

I've asked for our anniversary, for my birthday... It doesn't matter, he will not try them.

He says, "It may make me harder, or last longer, but it won't make me want to do it anymore than I do now." Ouch. It's the truth. He just doesn't want to have sex as much as I do.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You betcha!
> 
> Too bad he doesn't realize that he isn't getting anything.


How I read your post about the last couple of nights, and you being pushed back was him finding ways to delay just for a little bit until he has the plausible excuse of your period...during which he is more than happy to take from you without having to give anything in return. Based on everything I have read in this thread, it seems like a delay tactic for him.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I would LOVE it if he would try something.
> 
> I've asked for our anniversary, for my birthday... It doesn't matter, he will not try them.
> 
> He says, "It may make me harder, or last longer, but it won't make me want to do it anymore than I do now." Ouch. It's the truth. *He just doesn't want to have sex as much as I do*.


And he doesn't seem overly fussed with YOU having sex at all, as long as he gets his...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Eagle3 said:


> CuriousWife, sorry to hear that def sucks. To me it seemed he was delaying going home that night so could get out of it. You should have him talk to some of the people on here and hear how he is messing with your mind and needs. I also understand your issue with just the intimacy as that is what bothers me on my situation. Its not just the lack of sex that hurts its the laying together, the kissing, just signs of being wanted. I have gotten same as you when i would move over to do some light kissing and get the "we wont be able to do that tonight (insert some excuse).


I'm almost 100% he was delaying on purpose. He even does it subconsciously I think. Your right, it's not just the lack of sex.

I'd be much more content if I got to snuggle everyday, or made out, or got to fool around a little without actually having sex. He relates any intimacy to having sex, so he wants none of it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> How I read your post about the last couple of nights, and you being pushed back was him finding ways to delay just for a little bit until he has the plausible excuse of your period...during which he is more than happy to take from you without having to give anything in return. Based on everything I have read in this thread, it seems like a delay tactic for him.


Oh course it's a delay tactic. Just like he will delay having sex until I'm tired or busy, so then he can say, "I asked and you didn't want too. So who's fault is it." Or we are short on time so we have a quickie.

As a matter of fact last night when we were about asleep, I said, "well I guess we won't be having sex this week." And he replied with, "I'm up for it now. But I can see your not feeling well and tired."

Of course when I tried to initiate a little earlier before I had fallen asleep he said it was "too late."


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> How I read your post about the last couple of nights, and you being pushed back was him finding ways to delay just for a little bit until he has the plausible excuse of your period...during which he is more than happy to take from you without having to give anything in return. Based on everything I have read in this thread, it seems like a delay tactic for him.


Yep...been here myself. My ex would stay up late on the computer, make excuses, anything to delay sex enough that she could get out of it. And this to a guy that's willing to go down, earn my red wings, her first, etc. It was emotional torture to say the least.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious said: "It just bothers me how low sex is on his list of priorities. I'd move my schedule, or plan around sex, but he is the opposite. Sex is the very last thing that gets any thought, or any of his time."

But the thing is, this is WHO HE IS. Do you love him or not?

If you do, then love him AS HE IS.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious said: "It just bothers me how low sex is on his list of priorities. I'd move my schedule, or plan around sex, but he is the opposite. Sex is the very last thing that gets any thought, or any of his time."
> 
> But the thing is, this is WHO HE IS. Do you love him or not?
> 
> If you do, then love him AS HE IS.


You can love someone and still not like how they act. 

As Christians often say, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."

(Note I don't think being LD is a sin. lol. Just the best analogy I could think of.)


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is not a "way he acts". It is a core part of who he is. He doesn't want to change and has expressed repeatedly to you that he doesn't want to. It is up to you to either accept him as he is, or tell him he must change "or else".

Anything else you do is going to be futile.

But even if no changes occur, if you don't love him AS HE IS you will just continue falling out of love with him.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"He says, "It may make me harder, or last longer, but it won't make me want to do it anymore than I do now." Ouch. It's the truth. He just doesn't want to have sex as much as I do." 

That could be so. I have read that it does not make a man want sex. It does make the experience more intense and I still have to think that the better the experience the more someone will tend to like it. 

Have you considered taking the initiative and getting a sample from your doctor?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW, have you and your husband ever thought about seeing a sex therapist? Do you think he would go?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> "He says, "It may make me harder, or last longer, but it won't make me want to do it anymore than I do now." Ouch. It's the truth. He just doesn't want to have sex as much as I do."
> 
> That could be so. I have read that it does not make a man want sex. It does make the experience more intense and I still have to think that the better the experience the more someone will tend to like it.
> 
> Have you considered taking the initiative and getting a sample from your doctor?


I have thought of it. But our doctor is actually a very close family friend. She lives just down and the road and we are frequently at her house. My husband would be extremely upset and embarrassed to share that he needs Viagra with her. I don't think he would let me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> TCW, have you and your husband ever thought about seeing a sex therapist? Do you think he would go?


I have thought about it. But he would never ever go. Again he thinks there is no problem, so "we don't need any help."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Pills or a therapist would be great. But the fact still remains that you can't make a person go to therapy or take pills if they don't want to.

You also can't help someone who won't admit there is a problem. 

It's a never ending circle, but I can't help him if he won't help himself. It's very frustrating.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He honestly thinks our marriage is all peaches and roses.

If I ever bring up that maybe we have a problem, he just acts like I'm ridiculous and crazy, or that I'm being dramatic and blowing things out of proportion. 

He absolutely thinks that any time I have an issue with it, it's all just me making it an issue, or trying to stir the pot. He sees nothing wrong with our crazy dynamic.

Then it makes me wonder if I am just being stupid, or if he's right and I just need to get over it. It makes me question my judgement.

It's so difficult!


----------



## Eagle3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have thought about it. But he would never ever go. Again he thinks there is no problem, so "we don't need any help."


This is frustrating i am sure. I approached this with my wife for our siutation (different scenerio than yours but still a issue that needs outsdie help) and the wife shot that down with the same saying as you got. I think because most things are not a probkem with us she isnt seeing the whole picture. I know most people will say need councling but how do yo uget someone to do that when they dont want to outside of saying do it or else.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have never tried but I would think that there are other doctors. I would think though that this could be a big reason why he does not want to even try it (because of the social connection to this doctor)

Than again maybe he just is opposed to the idea of using a drug to enhance the experience. My view is guys that have not tried are really missing out.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You guys are both right. You can't make an adult do something if they don't want to.

Big surprise we didn't have sex last night. I got home late and as soon as I walked into the door he told me he was tired from watching his niece all day and he would rather wait another day for sex. 

I did remind him I'll be on my period and he said he didn't care. So we shall see.

It's already been 4 days, you'd think I'd be dying but actually I'm pretty meh. I guess I've just come to expect the rejection. Maybe it's the hormones, who knows.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He doesn't think there is a problem because for him there is no problem. He knows you aren't prepared to leave him over it. He gets sex how and as frequently as he wants. He's got no problems.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> He doesn't think there is a problem because for him there is no problem. He knows you aren't prepared to leave him over it. He gets sex how and as frequently as he wants. He's got no problems.


Yes and no. I've definitively put my foot down a lot more recently. No blow jobs no quickies. So he isn't getting what he wants all the time anymore. Although I'm sure making our sex sessions actual long sessions every time has probably made him want sex even less. So it's really a lose lose.

In the end I'm still losing more though. Because it doesn't bother him to go days without sex if he's not in the mood for a long session. I'm really not gaining anything from withholding blow jobs and quickies except maybe a little self respect. 

So again, sometimes I wonder why even bother.

I think it's too soon to tell if I'm making any progress. I'll keep my crusade going, and hopefully the message with sink in eventually. 

We did have sex on my last period which is quite an accomplishment, and if we go at it tonight like he has promised that will be two months in a row. So who knows, maybe he is slowly wrapping his brain around my needs.

Honestly though I don't think it has anything to do with my needs. I think he just realizes he won't get a blow job anymore, so if he wants to have an orgasm with me he is going to just have to push through the chore, and deal with it.

So in the end, it's still his needs that he is striving to meet. But at least mine get met in the process.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I tried that (withholding something she liked to make her realize that it is no fun to do without) with my wife years ago but unfortunately the person who can do without sex has all the leverage. In the end all it did was make her mad that she was not getting what she wanted.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is not a "way he acts". It is a core part of who he is. He doesn't want to change and has expressed repeatedly to you that he doesn't want to. It is up to you to either accept him as he is, or tell him he must change "or else".
> 
> Anything else you do is going to be futile.
> 
> But even if no changes occur, if you don't love him AS HE IS you will just continue falling out of love with him.


I 100% agree with Faithful Wife on this one.

Curious, you seemed to have pointed out many times that you think he is just LD, that it doesn't have anything to do with attraction levels or anything else. Okay, so if you're saying he is an LD person, meaning compared to you he wants less sex because that's just how he is, not for any particular reason, then how can you say he's "*acting*" this way? As if it were a behavior he could change?? I think you need to reread your posts and think about your situation with a little more clarity.

If he's simply just LD, and would be this way no matter what, and if you're planning to stay with him then you need to find ways to cope. 

If it's a medical issues then stop making excuses about him not wanting to go to the doctor because he knows her and he's embarrassed. Make it clear that whether it's this doctor or a doctor in a town an hour away, he needs to go and get checked out, and don't take no for an answer. This isn't about him, this is for the sake of the marriage.

I suspect he doesn't want to go to the doctor because he knows it's not a medical thing. Him staying with his parents is a total stalling technique. And him equating affection with you wanting sex is a redflag that he's not as attracted to you as you are to him. Does he hold your hand in public? Hug you at the movies? Get close to you in front of his friends? I mean you really need to evaluate this situation from outside the four walls of your home. That's a very shortsighted way of looking at it.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes and no. I've definitively put my foot down a lot more recently. No blow jobs no quickies. So he isn't getting what he wants all the time anymore. Although I'm sure making our sex sessions actual long sessions every time has probably made him want sex even less. So it's really a lose lose.
> 
> In the end I'm still losing more though. Because it doesn't bother him to go days without sex if he's not in the mood for a long session. I'm really not gaining anything from withholding blow jobs and quickies except maybe a little self respect.
> 
> So again, sometimes I wonder why even bother.
> 
> I think it's too soon to tell if I'm making any progress. I'll keep my crusade going, and hopefully the message with sink in eventually.
> 
> We did have sex on my last period which is quite an accomplishment, and if we go at it tonight like he has promised that will be two months in a row. So who knows, maybe he is slowly wrapping his brain around my needs.
> 
> Honestly though I don't think it has anything to do with my needs. I think he just realizes he won't get a blow job anymore, so if he wants to have an orgasm with me he is going to just have to push through the chore, and deal with it.
> 
> So in the end, it's still his needs that he is striving to meet. But at least mine get met in the process.


YOU'RE SAYING YOUR HUSBAND THINKS SEX WITH YOU IS A *CHORE*. Let that sink in.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Not a lot of time to reply.

But yes, if this is how he is I realize that he isn't "acting" or it's not a habit that you can just change.

But I do believe you are in charge somewhat of how you behave. Even if HE doesn't feel like sex, because we are married, and because he loves me, he should care enough about my feelings to at least put some effort in to meet me half way.

If I hated giving blow jobs, but knew he loved them I'd do it anyway even if I didn't enjoy it, because I love him. That's marriage, that's compromise.

I just want him to not think only about himself all the time. I know I can't make him magically want sex, but he should know it's something important to me.

But last night was great. We flirted and made out all evening, we ended with a blow job for him, and plenty of manual for me. I tried the tampon thing and it totally worked. No mess. :smthumbup: It was one of the strongest orgasms I've ever had, and he had a good time too. He actually talked dirty to me, like a lot. It was so hot. 

Hoping good things are on the horizon.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We haven't had sex since Wednesday. Saturday was a little disappointing. We went on a date night and had a great time, but it lacked my favorite part... sex. 

When I asked him how he can possibly not be horny after it being so long he just said, "I don't know, I'm just not horny." 

Usually I'd be drowning is self pity, and resentment, but actually I'm not too upset right now. In fact, I really love my husband. 

I know this thread is constantly a rant on how unsatisfying our sex life is, and I won't lie and say I'm okay with it being nearly a week since sex. But we have a lot of good things going on too.

He hasn't asked once for a blow job. I think he finally understands that I won't deliver anymore, unless he's willing to return. 

We have a western lego town set up on our coffee table right now. Yes we are grown adults who bought legos on our date. I love that we can have fun in childish ways, and that we aren't too serious and uptight.

I love that he's been snuggling me at night.

I love that after he gets ready for work in the morning he pulls me into his lap and strokes my hair and face until he has to leave.

I love when we are in bed and laying with our foreheads pressed together and smiling at each other until we fall asleep.

I love how dang hot he is.  I'm not just saying that either. Every time I look at him I think I just melt a little. 

He does tell me how much he loves me, and how lucky he thinks he is, and how beautiful I am. I love our late night whispers and I love yous. 

Today I am in a good place. I realize that he does care and love me. But he shows it in entirely different ways than I do. Which is hard for me to comprehend sometimes. 

He's been subtly insinuating that we'll be having some good sex tonight.  Can't wait.

BTW: I'm still thinking about dirty things he said to me last week. That was fun, I hope he keeps it up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:smthumbup:

Last night was 15 minutes of pure heaven.

It's kind of pathetic how long we last if the setting is right. 
I'd love to go for hours, but it just doesn't happen unless he isn't into it and I can't get there, and then it's bad that is lasts an hour. 

He is keeping up the dirty talk, I like it. He has been a lot more brave and demanding here recently. Instead of using lube last night he decided to use his mouth. Granted it only lasted about 10 seconds, but hey I'll take what I can get. 

I think I scared him a little last night. He was rubbing me, and I was almost there. I guess he thought it was too soon so he moved his hand to wander other places and I growled at him and said, "Get your hand back down there, _now_." It was a pretty scary little snarl, I surprised myself.  He teasingly complained, but obeyed.

Sadly I was having such a good ol time I guess my enthusiasm set him off and our fun was cut short. 

I have to say the last two times my orgasms have been on such a higher level than my usual ones. They are stronger, and last what seems like forever. I think I'm having one, but the urge to stop doesn't happen and they just continue and build more. The one last night probably lasted over a minute. I'm loving it. 

I'm so glad that we are back in sync and that I don't feel broken.

Part of me is so thrilled with the recent success, but somewhere in the back of my mind is a little voice, wondering how long this will last before we go right back into our routine...

My plan for now is just to show my appreciation for his effort, and continue enjoying it while it lasts.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

15 minutes? It usually takes me ten minutes just to get my wife's motor started.  For me certainly the more enthusiasm she shows the more I like it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> 15 minutes? It usually takes me ten minutes just to get my wife's motor started.  For me certainly the more enthusiasm she shows the more I like it.


What can I say... I'm easy. 

:rofl:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Honestly though. I am pretty easy. I don't need a ton of seducing, or warming up. I'm ready at a moments notice. When I masturbate I orgasm in less than a minute.

So really his job isn't that hard. If he puts just a little tiny bit of effort in, I'll handle the rest, and we'll both be satisfied. Afterwards I'll be a happy camper, and sing his praises. I don't know why it's so hard for him to understand that. I think if he knew how hard some women can be to seduce and climax he'd be thankful that he has me instead of being so put off.

He likes to get right down to business. We don't spend a whole lot of time warming up before we start man handling each other. Thankfully it's not an issue for me, because I'm usually aroused just thinking about having sex. PIV is often foreplay for us, and from what I understand most people use foreplay to "warm up" to PIV.

On more than one occasion we have climbed into bed and he immediately went to touch a little, then he just looked at me and sarcastically rolled his eyes. "Really. Your wet already?" My usual response is, "What, I'm horny." Or I just give him a sheepish grin. Most times he thinks it is funny. It's kind of the running joke around here.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My wife could probably orgasm thru PiV without the warm up or with only the ten minute warm up but she just enjoys the orgasm through touching in addition to the one she gets through screwing.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I can't orgasm through PIV alone. I get really close, so I'm sure I _could_. But when I get close I really start squeezing down on him, so he has to stop and take breaks or else he won't last. So usually just about when I'm about to blow, he has to quit. 

I do go faster if I'm getting rubbed while doing PIV. That is our most common act. We found a new position that we really liked a few months back, and we've used it every time since.

Of course we usually start and stop PIV at least 3+ times. So we don't use only that position.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's a roller coaster here. 

Great sex last Monday, then bad, then okay.

You just never know.

I tried discussing with husband again how I can't stand it when we just lay there quietly for what seems like forever, while he is rubbing me.

I feel he is just waiting on me to hurry up and finish so he can get his, and that I'm boring him, or that he is falling asleep. 

We leave all the lights on now, because of him falling asleep and more than one occasion.

But he said he is just focusing. He absolutely thinks I'm crazy for believing that he is bored. He says I have some crazy notion in my head and that it's not true at all.

And he seems sincere. Maybe he isn't bored, but that is still the way it reads to me, and it's hard to make him understand that.

At the same time, can I really expect him to dirty talk to me, and kiss, and rub, and caress other body parts all at the same time, for 15+ minutes at a time. That doesn't seem fair either.

I don't know why I feed off his pleasure so much, but probably 99% of the time I can only orgasm if he is thrusting, squeezing, dirty talking, moaning, or something that acts like he is enjoying it a lot. 

The sad news is that I forgot TWO birth control pills this week. I have no idea why. I've been taking them for years, and probably only missed 2 or 3 pills total out of all this time. Then I go and miss two in one week. GRRRRR. Condoms ruin all the fun.  Especially on Christmas!

I'm also thinking back to last week. I can't do anything to change the sex we already had. Prayers that I don't get preggo, I am just not ready to deal with that.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Doh, that's how my daughter came to be, be careful TCW.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I just got off the phone with my doctor. She recommends alternate birth control until I start my next pack of pills. And of course I missed the pills during the 1st week, so now I get condom fun for 3 weeks. 

Booooo. Any other good ideas? I've thought about trying spermicide, but I've never used it (besides on condoms) any good advice?


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This was awhile ago, but I know that W took the morning after pills and then restarted a new pack of regular ones and we were ok, but your doctor's advice is the one that counts. Foam maybe, applied before?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



> At the same time, can I really expect him to dirty talk to me, and kiss, and rub, and caress other body parts all at the same time, for 15+ minutes at a time.


YES!!!! Yes you can!

Would you do it for him? Would you show your love for him even if it took a little bit of effort on your part?

Of course you would!

So expect and DEMAND it from him!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> YES!!!! Yes you can!
> 
> Would you do it for him? Would you show your love for him even if it took a little bit of effort on your part?
> 
> Of course you would!
> 
> So expect and DEMAND it from him!


Oh course I would. I'd do nearly anything he asked me to try.

Thanks for the encouragement. 

I do demand and expect it from him. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just being a little tyrant though.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Despite the stupid condoms, he did something great last night.

He gave me oral for probably 10 minutes!! :smthumbup:

Probably the longest ever!

I didn't orgasm from that, but I finished within a minute or two once he switched to his fingers. I'm sure I could orgasm from that, if he got in a good position, but I'm not used to it.

After he was down there for a few minutes he switched to fingers for a minute, I guess because he got tired, and I told him it was okay if he wanted to stop. He just said, "No way, I'm having fun down here."  Then went back to it for another 5 minutes.

Usually if he does do oral it's because I ask him too, and if I give him any indication it's okay if he wants to stop he does asap. So it was nice for him to at least act like he was enjoying it, and without me making him.

He's caught me reading She Comes First a couple times in the last few weeks, and I've hinted or joked around about oral more here recently. So he must have noticed that I've been thinking about it.

I was thinking about asking if he'd try to give me an oral orgasm for Christmas, but now I'm not so sure I should push it. I don't want to scare him off.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well maybe you could ask for that by saying you'd really like to see how that feels as soon as he's in the mood. That way it becomes his idea under his control.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Great news! Perhaps a temporary lift on the "embargo"? A little positive reinforcement could be a good thing, as long as you make sure he connects the dots as to why it's happening.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> Great news! Perhaps a temporary lift on the "embargo"? A little positive reinforcement could be a good thing, as long as you make sure he connects the dots as to why it's happening.


We were doing 69, although he did not finish in my mouth. 

I'm sure he will be getting a few blow jobs over the next several weeks because of the condom thing though. 

He can't a feel a thing with a condom on. We have to get him real close beforehand, for him to finish that way. And I don't think it is very enjoyable for him. 

I would never let him please me for 3 weeks and him not get anything in return. So I will be giving him blow jobs and hand jobs part of the time.

Of course, I will make sure I am satisfied and pleased first!

I don't want to back track, but he has been taking pretty good care of my needs here lately. 

I don't think giving him blow jobs, as long as he is reciprocating with hurt anything.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well things are still going good here. Husband has been doing really good about taking care of my needs before his. I bought some fun condoms, and we are enjoying trying them all out.

I'm a little sad though. He is leaving all day Sunday, and camping with friends Monday. Then Tuesday the minute I get home we are having a new years party.

So I won't get to see him for at least 3 days. And also no sex during that time either.  I'll be home alone, twiddling my thumbs and bored. 

I think I'm weird. I notice I'm okay the day after we have sex. Because I can still vividly remember what went on the night before and it eases my desire. But the next day, it's all I can think about. I start getting grumpy and sad. If we have sex that day I cheer up and it repeats it's self. If I don't have sex, then I'm worse. I just go downhill from there. It completely filtered into my entire mood and personality.

Or if I know I won't get to have sex for a gap, such as the days coming up, I get really anxious about it, and think about it all the time, and how sad I am that I won't get to have sex those days.

I think I'm crazy. lol. Or obsessed. Either way, I'm throwing myself a little pity party even though it still a couple days away.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yep, I do the same thing, although as I get older I notice I can go more days in between.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I do that, too. But I have had to realize the crazy high sex drive is all about me, and not about my husband. He is my lover, but my drive would be this high with or without him. So I just work constantly on ways to keep myself as settled as possible, because it is me, my body, and my feelings that cause the discomfort.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hello CuriousWife, just wanted to pop in on here and tell you that I can relate to what I've read (just a bit, I'll read more later though). HD wife/LD husband is so hard because it defies all the cultural stereotypes and makes us wives feel so alone and undesirable. I still remember the first time that I put on a little black lace bra and thong set and crawled into bed with H, and he rolled over and went to sleep. I cried I was so hurt. 

Anyway, I'll write more later when the kids are in bed.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



northernlights said:


> Hello CuriousWife, just wanted to pop in on here and tell you that I can relate to what I've read (just a bit, I'll read more later though). HD wife/LD husband is so hard because it defies all the cultural stereotypes and makes us wives feel so alone and undesirable. I still remember the first time that I put on a little black lace bra and thong set and crawled into bed with H, and he rolled over and went to sleep. I cried I was so hurt.
> 
> Anyway, I'll write more later when the kids are in bed.


I'll never forget my similar incident when I came to bed naked and tried to kissed him and he completely ignored me and then went to sleep as I cried all night. That was probably the most hurtful thing he has ever done to me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Today is going pretty great!!

My best friend was in Africa for months and months, and I've only seen her a couple times in the past few years and she wasn't suppose to come home until March.

Well she surprised me today at work, and we just went out to lunch. She came home early!! I'm so excited. She is my only real friend. She is coming to come and hang out while my husband is gone this week! I'm so happy. 

Also husband keeps implying he wants to have sex tonight. But I told him I'd rather wait until Saturday because we won't get to have it again until at least Wednesday maybe Thursday. 

He promised he would have sex today AND tomorrow. But I reminded him of all the other times that he didn't come through.

He says he would sign a contract that he promises. lol.

I don't think he needs to go that extreme. But at least he seems sincere. 

Maybe he is changing? I don't want to get my hopes up too much. But right now it looks like I'll get sex two days in a row.

Oh the good life.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'll never forget my similar incident when I came to bed naked and tried to kissed him and he completely ignored me and then went to sleep as I cried all night. That was probably the most hurtful thing he has ever done to me.


Ugh, I'm so sorry. But yay for sex two days in a row! I think the only time I ever got sex two days in a row was on our honeymoon, when I demanded it. Threatening divorce for sex on my honeymoon was such a fun experience. Sarcasm.

However, I did finally get through to H after a few years. I'm not sure what did it, but he finally promised to make an effort and actually followed through on it about 4 years ago. Or maybe it was that sex was so painful after our second daughter was born that it was me who changed... I'm not totally sure. Regardless, for a stretch there we were having sex twice a week that he was more enthusiastic about. And dare I say, a little more adventurous? 

Then things really went off the rails in our relationship, so for the last year it's been maybe once a month. He hasn't mentioned the frequency, though, so I'm not sure if he's happy with it or not. He doesn't say.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh dear. I'm at 3 times a week right now.

I think if it was any less, even 2 days a week I'd throw a HUGE stink. I already feel like I'm being more than reasonable at 3 times a week. 

If we were down to less than once a week, I'd probably be divorcing. 

Lately my husband has been more enthusiastic about it. He's been initiating, and I don't think he has asked once for me to pleasure him without him taking care of me first. That is a big step up.

I've been pretty lax and meh about sex here recently. I'm excited about the changes, but I've also tried not to harass him anymore about sex. I've even been able to say "no, not today."

I've came down a notch, and he has come up. We are meeting together in the middle better. 

Things are working well between us for the time being. I hope it continues!


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I can't imagine not reciprocating on oral but I am a strange sort of cat. I do not really care if she ever gives me a BJ. She has talent but I have issues and will leave it at that. 

I am on the opposite spectrum. 4 times in the last two weeks and am about as content as a guy could be. Sure beats 9 times in 11 months prior to that.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

While I'd encourage you to wait to have kids until you're sure that the changes will stick, I will say that the post-baby sex drive dip happened to me after #2, and now that I think about it, probably is 90% of the reason we reached such a happy compromise. So even though kids are a sex-drive killer in a bad way for so many people, they might be a blessing for you guys!

A word of warning, though: I wanted sex more than ever when I was pregnant, and it was _so_ good. So at first, it made our problem worse. But then better.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Not to worry. No kids in the next few years. I am so not ready for that.

He is enough to handle as it is. lol

Tyler I'm glad things are going so well for you right now! Cheers to both of us!


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



northernlights said:


> While I'd encourage you to wait to have kids until you're sure that the changes will stick, I will say that the post-baby sex drive dip happened to me after #2, and now that I think about it, probably is 90% of the reason we reached such a happy compromise. So even though kids are a sex-drive killer in a bad way for so many people, they might be a blessing for you guys!
> 
> A word of warning, though: I wanted sex more than ever when I was pregnant, and it was _so_ good. So at first, it made our problem worse. But then better.


That was how this has unfolded. Months 0-4, sex life was deader than a door nail. Month 5 comes along and she is into it. I do not quite get it but I am not going to complain.

Four times in 2 weeks would not be enough for some on here but it is a remarkable improvement. Including one session where was practically fiending for it even after we had both got off multiple times.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> This thread is so uncomfortable to read. You are allowing yourself to be used horribly. Its emotional abuse. As with emotional abuse the abuser twists words and situations to their favor. Makes you doubt your own sanity and feelings.
> 
> I'm really not sure what you accomplished by drawing a boundary by saying - I have gotten you off 4 times this week and now I would like you to get me off one time this week. Then the next thing is you offering a blow job because he doesn't care for your boundary. Then the fist thing you do when you get home is offer him another quickie.
> 
> Seriously. I don't know that your husband is LD as much as hes just a ****. And you are enabling him.



CuriousWife, I'm getting through your thread, and wanted to bring this post back up. She nails it. My husband is very, very selfish, and I started the relationship very codependent. I'll post a link to my thread in a few minutes. I think it might be a peak into your future if things don't change for you two.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Here's my thread TCW. Hopefully you don't relate to most of it, and outside of sex, our relationships are entirely dissimilar. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...ve-him-any-more-but-still-want-make-work.html


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Northernlights I haven't gotten to read your thread yet, but hopefully I'll get time soon!

Things have taken a little step back around here.

For some reason my orgasms are building and building and building but never release. That last two times we couldn't get me there, and I had to make him stop after an hour.

Of course he is out of the mood by then. So he asked for a hand job the first time, and Saturday he refused to have PIV with me again. I gave him a blow job, but I was a little upset that he would absolutely not have intercourse with me even though we didn't the time before that, and now he is gone for several days. 

It was not his fault that I couldn't get there though, and he did put in a good effort so I gave him the blow job.

He struggles with condoms, and I think he was unaroused by this point and was worried he wouldn't be able to get there with a condom. But still I was sad.

Can't wait until he gets home tomorrow and we can have real sex. Hopefully we will have a chance before the party, but we might have to wait another day or two.

Sadly I think next time I will just ask for a quickie. I am missing PIV and all this rubbing forever is making us both discouraged. I feel like it would be better not to try at this point, and just be happy with PIV without a finish for me.


----------



## Daisy10

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Since I've had so many threads going on the issues with my LD husband I thought I'd stick them all together, and just keep my updates here.
> 
> Last night I had an epiphany of sorts.
> 
> Our last couple sexual encounters haven't been great. I've felt pressured and have had trouble getting to climax. I know he gets bored after a while, so then I start getting panicked, and it's just a bad cycle.
> 
> I'm leaving Thursday on a trip, so I was hoping to get a time or two of sex before I leave. Husband was supposed to have softball practice last night, but he cancelled to spend the evening with me. I was thinking that meant an intimate evening. So I waited, and waited. And by 9pm he hadn't brought anything up.
> 
> So I casually initiated sex. He went on to give me the talk about how he was tired (after an evening of relaxing) and how sex and getting me to orgasm was exhausting. He told me we could have sex tomorrow. But that would mean only once this week. And when I get back from my trip I'll only have a day or two before my period and another week of no sex.
> 
> I explained to him that I orgasm faster than most girls, and most other husbands don't find it exhausting. I told him it hurts my feelings when he makes comments about it being work.
> 
> So then he's like "How about a quickie." Which means no stimulation for me. I told him we could have a quickie tomorrow, when we are less free time, but he insisted.
> 
> So i dropped the issue and just went back to cleaning the house. After a while he noticed I was upset, and then turned it around saying how now he feels bad, and that we can have sex.
> 
> I explained that being rejected and told I'm exhausting put me out of the mood and that I'd rather wait until tomorrow.
> 
> In the end he begged me into sex. I insisted on a quickie but he wouldn't do it. Instead he just attempted to get me to orgasm for 30 minutes despite my protests. Until I made him quit because it was hurting. Which ended with us both unhappy.
> 
> Even though it was a crappy night, I did more get information out of him about his LD than I ever have before.
> 
> He said he wanted to be the pursuer. He said sex was no fun because anytime he'd offer it I'd jump right on the bandwagon, and he didn't have to work for it.
> 
> 
> Apparently all this telling me no until I'm upset, then him feeling bad and talking me into it, is just some sort of game for him to feel like it was an accomplishment to talk me into it. :scratchhead:
> 
> It sure makes me feel crappy to be told no then him be like, "well if you really want to I guess we can have sex." That was how he was getting turned on, while I was getting turned off.
> 
> I kind of understand that it's suppose to be the mans duty or whatever to initiate, but I told him if I wanted on him to make the first move I'd be waiting for weeks.
> 
> I just don't understand why he wants a LD wife so he can feel like sex is a prize. In my opinion it's much funner if both partners are wanting it. *sigh*
> 
> Anyway, I've vowed to myself to not initiate for a while and maybe play a little hard to get and see what happens. That seems like that is what he wants, and I'm willing to try anything for my husband to desire me more.
> 
> I hope I can hold out. It's hard for me to make it more than a few days. :/


I know this is an old post but wow. I feel so bad for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well the last couple days were up and down as usual.

Tuesday I rushed home early from work so I could spend some time with my husband before the party. We hadn’t seen each other for a couple days. I get home and he’s just piddling around and watching tv. There is no, “I missed you” or hugs or kisses. I’m as horny as a rabbit and he barely acknowledges my presence, except for some small talk. Now I’m mad I came home early and wasted time I should have been working. After several hours I get up and just go to take a nap, because I was up all night with my friend the night before, and didn’t think I’d make it to New Years. I cried to myself a little that my husband hasn’t even thought about the fact we haven’t kissed or had sex for several days. It deeply bothers me that it isn’t even a thought of his.

After a while I decide that I can’t be mad at him if I don’t say something. Because it is not his fault he doesn’t constantly have it on his mind like I do. I don’t even want an orgasm, I just want to spend some intimate time with him because I miss his touch. So I get up and asked him if he’d like to have a quickie. 

He looks at me like I’m crazy and says, “We don’t have time. We only have an hour and a half before we have to leave.”



WTH! An hour and a half! Our quickies take like 5 minutes. It makes me upset just thinking about it. So he proceeds to go back and continue watching tv until 10 minutes before time to leave and then he gets ready. That tells me tv is more important than me at this point.

We hadn’t had PIV in a week, and the last time anything happened was a blow job on Saturday.

We go to the party and I have a good time and cheer up a bit. Still haven’t kissed. 

The next day the resentment is building, it’s afternoon and still nothing sexual has been said, and we still haven’t touched besides when I snuggled up to him on the couch for a few minutes while he was watching tv. I get tired of waiting around to see if he’ll initiate so I go to take a shower and I ask him if he’d like to join me. He says no. But he got in a few minutes later. 

He finally starts kissing me, and asks if I’d like to have sex. But honestly by this point I was so upset and resentful I didn’t want to. He finally made me after some argument, but it was hard to enjoy it. He did go down on me again for a while. He was also very caring and really into it. I was cold, but loosened up after a while. He’s pretty persuasive. 

Same situation happened though. He put in a good effort for 45 minutes but I couldn’t get anywhere. I’m getting the build up but no release. I now think it’s probably caused by me skipping my birth control pills and screwing up my hormones. Because it is not normal. Even when I masturbate I’m really struggling to get there. Hopefully once the new pack starts I’ll go back to normal.

Now we are apart again until tomorrow night. I feel bad for being cranky the last couple days and during sex. I should have been happy. But once we go so many days without I get so resentful and upset. The last thing I want to do is have sex with that man, but that is really what I need. It’s a vicious cycle. As soon as I get sex I feel instantly better, and am back to my cheery self. You think he would learn that when I turn into Mrs. Rawr it’s time to get laid. 

I just wish that he would notice when we go days without sex or touching. It makes me crazy to think he hasn’t even noticed that we haven’t kissed. I am a physical person. I need and crave his touch, even if it’s just putting my foot against him when we sleep, or my hand on his lap. Why does he always recoil from me? *sigh*

:scratchhead:


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You've probably answered this somewhere in your thread, but I can't find it. Have the two of you read The Five Love Languages? If not, the two of you should read it together.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We have not read it, but I did take the test.

My big one was Physical Touch, and the others were all a tie except for the gifts one which I got a 0.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You and your husband should read it together.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well the last couple days were up and down as usual.
> 
> Tuesday I rushed home early from work so I could spend some time with my husband before the party. We hadn’t seen each other for a couple days. I get home and he’s just piddling around and watching tv. There is no, “I missed you” or hugs or kisses. I’m as horny as a rabbit and he barely acknowledges my presence, except for some small talk. Now I’m mad I came home early and wasted time I should have been working. After several hours I get up and just go to take a nap, because I was up all night with my friend the night before, and didn’t think I’d make it to New Years. I cried to myself a little that my husband hasn’t even thought about the fact we haven’t kissed or had sex for several days. It deeply bothers me that it isn’t even a thought of his.
> 
> After a while I decide that I can’t be mad at him if I don’t say something. Because it is not his fault he doesn’t constantly have it on his mind like I do. I don’t even want an orgasm, I just want to spend some intimate time with him because I miss his touch. So I get up and asked him if he’d like to have a quickie.
> 
> He looks at me like I’m crazy and says, “We don’t have time. We only have an hour and a half before we have to leave.”
> 
> 
> 
> WTH! An hour and a half! Our quickies take like 5 minutes. It makes me upset just thinking about it. So he proceeds to go back and continue watching tv until 10 minutes before time to leave and then he gets ready. That tells me tv is more important than me at this point.
> 
> *Yup, I can relate to that one. I really feel miserable when something like TV or a book or an iPhone game is more important than me.*
> 
> We hadn’t had PIV in a week, and the last time anything happened was a blow job on Saturday.
> 
> We go to the party and I have a good time and cheer up a bit. Still haven’t kissed.
> 
> The next day the resentment is building, it’s afternoon and still nothing sexual has been said, and we still haven’t touched besides when I snuggled up to him on the couch for a few minutes while he was watching tv. I get tired of waiting around to see if he’ll initiate so I go to take a shower and I ask him if he’d like to join me. He says no. But he got in a few minutes later.
> 
> He finally starts kissing me, and asks if I’d like to have sex. But honestly by this point I was so upset and resentful I didn’t want to. He finally made me after some argument, but it was hard to enjoy it. He did go down on me again for a while. He was also very caring and really into it. I was cold, but loosened up after a while. He’s pretty persuasive.
> 
> Same situation happened though. He put in a good effort for 45 minutes but I couldn’t get anywhere. I’m getting the build up but no release. I now think it’s probably caused by me skipping my birth control pills and screwing up my hormones. Because it is not normal. Even when I masturbate I’m really struggling to get there. Hopefully once the new pack starts I’ll go back to normal.
> 
> Now we are apart again until tomorrow night. I feel bad for being cranky the last couple days and during sex. I should have been happy. But once we go so many days without I get so resentful and upset. The last thing I want to do is have sex with that man, but that is really what I need. It’s a vicious cycle. As soon as I get sex I feel instantly better, and am back to my cheery self. You think he would learn that when I turn into Mrs. Rawr it’s time to get laid.
> 
> I just wish that he would notice when we go days without sex or touching. It makes me crazy to think he hasn’t even noticed that we haven’t kissed. I am a physical person. I need and crave his touch, even if it’s just putting my foot against him when we sleep, or my hand on his lap. Why does he always recoil from me? *sigh*
> 
> :scratchhead:



I have not read everything, so forgive me if I am asking the same questions others have asked.

1) Did you tell him ahead of time that you were going to leave work early so you and him would have time for sex? I am guessing that you did not. If this is the case, perhaps your H just has a tough time switching gears quickly. You come home ready and willing and he is engrossed in TV and wants to finish it. Figures that you can wait, but the TV show is right now. So he can't switch to "wanting sex" mode.

2) Do you have a "rain check" policy in place for you two? I have read enough on this sight that some people talk about it and setup a rain check policy so that if one is not feeling like it, the other can get a rain check. It helps reduce the feeling of being rejected. When it is carried out, both parties can mentally prepare for the encounter.

3) Do you prefer to have more spontaneous sex encounters, or more planned encounters? I am asking this because this might feed the vicious cycle. You are ready for sex, he is not because he needs more of a planned time. Then when the time is right, you are upset and can't get into it and the O is difficult or non existent for you because of the pressure to try to forget what just happened a few hours ago. 

Well, I feel for you now. I was jealous earlier, but now I understand that your needs are not being met all the time and that is not completely different from me or other posters.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I have not read everything, so forgive me if I am asking the same questions others have asked.
> 
> 1) Did you tell him ahead of time that you were going to leave work early so you and him would have time for sex? I am guessing that you did not. If this is the case, perhaps your H just has a tough time switching gears quickly. You come home ready and willing and he is engrossed in TV and wants to finish it. Figures that you can wait, but the TV show is right now. So he can't switch to "wanting sex" mode.
> 
> *I did not tell him. I figured since we hadn't have sex in 3 days it was sort of implied. But I understand what you saying. The problem is that I didn't want to be the one to initiate. I am always chasing him, and it seems to work out a lot better if he comes to me without me hassling him to do it. If I do send him a flirtatious text or something he either ignores it, laughs it off, or flat out rejects my advances. I'm a little gun shy.*
> 
> 2) Do you have a "rain check" policy in place for you two? I have read enough on this sight that some people talk about it and setup a rain check policy so that if one is not feeling like it, the other can get a rain check. It helps reduce the feeling of being rejected. When it is carried out, both parties can mentally prepare for the encounter.
> 
> If I ever turn him down, I always say, "how about when we get home." or "how about tomorrow when we are more awake."
> 
> *He usually just flat out says no. Every once in a while he will say tomorrow. But usually that is just because he is putting it off as long as he can, and it may or may not happen tomorrow. And only if I bring it back up and push the issue.*
> 
> 3) Do you prefer to have more spontaneous sex encounters, or more planned encounters? I am asking this because this might feed the vicious cycle. You are ready for sex, he is not because he needs more of a planned time. Then when the time is right, you are upset and can't get into it and the O is difficult or non existent for you because of the pressure to try to forget what just happened a few hours ago.
> 
> *I don't care either way if they are planned or spontaneous. I just want sex!  We kind of have an unwritten rule that we will have sex 3 times a week, for my benefit. So usually every other day it is kind of expected. But a lot of times he tries to get around it somehow.
> 
> You are right about the O. It is so hard for me to switch gears after being rejected and hurt. It's hard for me to get into it and enjoy it. *
> 
> 
> Well, I feel for you now. I was jealous earlier, but now I understand that your needs are not being met all the time and that is not completely different from me or other posters.


I know some people think I'm just being crazy or selfish because I do usually have sex 3 times a week. But I'm not much different than a lot of other people on here. I get rejected probably over 90% of the time I initiate. 

When we have sex, it is on his timing, on his mood.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know some people think I'm just being crazy or selfish because I do usually have sex 3 times a week. But I'm not much different than a lot of other people on here. I get rejected probably over 90% of the time I initiate.
> 
> When we have sex, it is on his timing, on his mood.


And if you didn't initiate as much as you did, you wouldn't even recieve that.

I still remember the days when it was bed time and I could get some if I wanted to and it wasn't a big deal. If she wasn't going to be into it she'd ask if I could make it quick. Lovely option.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Is this a usual thing for you? You try to initiate, get turned down (90% of the time) and then when he comes around you can't get your O because you are thinking of the rejection? If so I can understand why you are "gun shy." And if this is the case, then he does have far more control than you. The only good sex you get is when he initiates on his terms. Ouch. I feel for you.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Is this a usual thing for you? You try to initiate, get turned down (90% of the time) and then when he comes around you can't get your O because you are thinking of the rejection? If so I can understand why you are "gun shy." And if this is the case, then he does have far more control than you. The only good sex you get is when he initiates on his terms. Ouch. I feel for you.


With a 90% reject ratio, one would be tempted to say:

"Well look. We have sex about 3 times a week. If we could have the sex 3 times a week and you could give me a time or method to know when it's OK so I can cut down on the rejection"


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Is this a usual thing for you? You try to initiate, get turned down (90% of the time) and then when he comes around you can't get your O because you are thinking of the rejection? If so I can understand why you are "gun shy." And if this is the case, then he does have far more control than you. The only good sex you get is when he initiates on his terms. Ouch. I feel for you.


This is exactly how it is.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> With a 90% reject ratio, one would be tempted to say:
> 
> "Well look. We have sex about 3 times a week. If we could have the sex 3 times a week and you could give me a time or method to know when it's OK so I can cut down on the rejection"


I'd love that. He told me that I'm not allowed to ask if we did it the day before. So I at least know that rule.

But that doesn't mean it's an automatic yes if it's been two days. 

He will still think of excuses. 

Sunday was our agreed upon day, but once it came down to it he was "too tired."

We finally had a good time last night. But now it's cranky time, and he has already made it clear that he would rather not do anything this week.... 

I'm already horny, so in a couple days I won't be able to stand it and then I'm going to ask and get rejected again. Oh well, such is life.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That would be perfectly fine for me. I could care less what kind of sex we have, I just want some.

But he will not have sex unless he has an orgasm too.

So there is no quickies for me, or oral for me.


----------



## the_turtle

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well things are still going good here. Husband has been doing really good about taking care of my needs before his. I bought some fun condoms, and we are enjoying trying them all out.
> 
> I'm a little sad though. He is leaving all day Sunday, and camping with friends Monday. Then Tuesday the minute I get home we are having a new years party.
> 
> So I won't get to see him for at least 3 days. And also no sex during that time either.  I'll be home alone, twiddling my thumbs and bored.
> 
> I think I'm weird. I notice I'm okay the day after we have sex. Because I can still vividly remember what went on the night before and it eases my desire. But the next day, it's all I can think about. I start getting grumpy and sad. If we have sex that day I cheer up and it repeats it's self. If I don't have sex, then I'm worse. I just go downhill from there. It completely filtered into my entire mood and personality.
> 
> Or if I know I won't get to have sex for a gap, such as the days coming up, I get really anxious about it, and think about it all the time, and how sad I am that I won't get to have sex those days.
> 
> I think I'm crazy. lol. Or obsessed. Either way, I'm throwing myself a little pity party even though it still a couple days away.


Have you ever asked him for an open marriage? maybe for your solution if he cannot provide what you need, or maybe just to see what his reaction will be. I did ask my husband that question and he was shocked-but it did make him realize how unhappy I am with our sex life since he knows I am the jealous type and not accepting discussion on "the ex".


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I find open marriages morally wrong, and personally I think they are disgusting. No offense to people that do that, but I never could.

Besides the fact that I don't lust after sex with anyone and everyone. I only crave sex with my husband. I only have sexy thoughts about him, and only fantasize about him. 

So an open marriage would do nothing for me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I find open marriages morally wrong, and personally I think they are disgusting. No offense to people that do that, but I never could.

Besides the fact that I don't lust after sex with anyone and everyone. I only crave sex with my husband. I only have sexy thoughts about him, and only fantasize about him. 

So an open marriage would do nothing for me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Feeling bummed.

This week has been very stressful. I'm exhausted physically and mentally, and we haven't had much time to relax and we haven't had any intimacy at all.

Last time we had sex was Monday. When I got a little frisky last night husband patted my head and said, "I know your horny. Don't worry. Maybe we will have sex on Sunday."



Later he started giving me a back massage and it was nice, but all I could think was, "I know what he wants." 

He never touches me intimately unless he is horny and wants a release. And as usual after he was done he started talking about how that that turned him on, and how he was sore because it had been too long since sex.

He asked for a blow job, and I turned him down. But all night he kept hinting how he is hurting and blah blah blah.

Instead of getting snippy and starting a fight, I just gave him a hand job. I caved I know. But I honestly just wasn't in the mood to deal with it. 

It stings that because he is horny and hurting that he "needs" a release. But because I'm a girl and it doesn't physically hurt then I just "want" one. 

Sigh. Right now I don't have much fight in me, I feel like a horse that has been beaten too many times, and just wants to lay down and block it all out. 

Now his friend is staying the night tonight, and we are busy Sunday, and I start school again Monday. Then next weekend he will be gone for 3 days again, and I'll be home alone. As usual. 

I just want to sleep for a week, and wake up and everything be better.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot to mention.

Recently, especially the last couple weeks, since we have been talking about sex more.

He has told me several times that he doesn't find me very sexy. 



He says maybe he would like sex more, if I was more sexy.

I know he doesn't mean it as an insult, but it has really hurt. 

He thinks he is the "better one" in our sex life, and that he has to teach me, etc...

What the heck? I think he is delusional... or maybe I am. I don't know anymore. 

He says I just lay there and make him do all the work.

I don't think this is true at all. I always touch him while he is touching me. We take turns being on top. We kiss and I make noise.

I don't know what he expects me to do. If I ask him he doesn't have an answer.

This makes me feel self conscious and shy. Now I really feel unsexy, and I don't want to have sex at all if I don't even turn him on.

Any ideas on how a girl can be more sexy?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious - I personally feel like this is another excuse. Your appeals for him to meet your needs seem to always end in him placing the blame back on you. He seems to refuse to take responsibility for this issue. Saying he isn't attracted to you puts the cause of this issue back on you. It leaves you having to jump through more hoops to try and win the affection you seek.

Please don't believe him. I know it's difficult but you are 'sexy'! You are a woman who desires her husband and wants to spend all kinds of intimate time with him. How many men on this board would so love to have a wife like that? 

Please do no allow his words to strip your self esteem more than it already has been in the past year. He is making excuses. He is refusing to take responsibility here. He is half of your marriage and he is not putting in his half of this issue. He is pushing his half off, so you are forced to take 100% - and then makes it seem like your fault that he did it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Curious - I personally feel like this is another excuse. Your appeals for him to meet your needs seem to always end in him placing the blame back on you. He seems to refuse to take responsibility for this issue. Saying he isn't attracted to you puts the cause of this issue back on you. It leaves you having to jump through more hoops to try and win the affection you seek.
> 
> Please don't believe him. I know it's difficult but you are 'sexy'! You are a woman who desires her husband and wants to spend all kinds of intimate time with him. How many men on this board would so love to have a wife like that?
> 
> Please do no allow his words to strip your self esteem more than it already has been in the past year. He is making excuses. He is refusing to take responsibility here. He is half of your marriage and he is not putting in his half of this issue. He is pushing his half off, so you are forced to take 100% - and then makes it seem like your fault that he did it.


I agree with you. It sounds like another ploy to put the blame on me.

But I've often wondered if he doesn't find me sexy. Now I have my answer I guess.

Even though it's his problem, I'd still like to improve my sexual prowess, and be more sexy for my husband. 

Just because I love sex doesn't mean I'm good at it. Maybe I do need improvement. I don't know anymore.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's crap. Don't buy into this. He's the one that could up his game. Give me a break.

Girl, you are way too young to be dealing with this. Hang in there.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> It's crap. Don't buy into this. He's the one that could up his game. Give me a break.
> 
> Girl, you are way too young to be dealing with this. Hang in there.


It's hard not to believe something when it is driven into your head everyday.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's absolutely hard! What will the end result be - you will have no self esteem and believe you never deserve sex. Put it back on him! You have so much going for you and so much to contribute to an intimate relationship. He is truly clueless about how good he has it. Perhaps he is just too young/immature about this to understand how many men are not as fortunate.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> It's absolutely hard! What will the end result be - you will have no self esteem and believe you never deserve sex. Put it back on him! You have so much going for you and so much to contribute to an intimate relationship. He is truly clueless about how good he has it. Perhaps he is just too young/immature about this to understand how many men are not as fortunate.


I think young/immature is a VERY big part of it. 

Part of my really wishes he would have been with a LD girl before me that made him beg for sex and jump through hoops. Maybe he would be a little more understanding.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Feeling bummed.
> 
> This week has been very stressful. I'm exhausted physically and mentally, and we haven't had much time to relax and we haven't had any intimacy at all.
> 
> Last time we had sex was Monday. When I got a little frisky last night husband patted my head and said, "I know your horny. Don't worry. Maybe we will have sex on Sunday."
> 
> 
> 
> Later he started giving me a back massage and it was nice, but all I could think was, "I know what he wants."
> 
> He never touches me intimately unless he is horny and wants a release. And as usual after he was done he started talking about how that that turned him on, and how he was sore because it had been too long since sex.
> 
> He asked for a blow job, and I turned him down. But all night he kept hinting how he is hurting and blah blah blah.
> 
> Instead of getting snippy and starting a fight, I just gave him a hand job. I caved I know. But I honestly just wasn't in the mood to deal with it.
> 
> It stings that because *he is horny and hurting that he "needs" a release. But because I'm a girl and it doesn't physically hurt then I just "want" one. *
> 
> Sigh. Right now I don't have much fight in me, I feel like a horse that has been beaten too many times, and just wants to lay down and block it all out.
> 
> Now his friend is staying the night tonight, and we are busy Sunday, and I start school again Monday. Then next weekend he will be gone for 3 days again, and I'll be home alone. As usual.
> 
> I just want to sleep for a week, and wake up and everything be better.


Surely you don't believe that he is literally feeling pain because he has a build up of semen, do you? You husband is snowing you. And if he really was feeling pain from a build up, all you have to say "Sorry to hear that you are feeling pain given your current situation, but I cannot help you with that. Feel free to go to the bathroom and take care of your own needs". 

I can see that you may be giving up and not fighting. However, nothing will change if you don't take a stand.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think young/immature is a VERY big part of it.
> 
> Part of my really wishes he would have been with a LD girl before me that made him beg for sex and jump through hoops. Maybe he would be a little more understanding.


I think that I have a pretty good hold on your husband. He knows that you will cave in so withholding is not going to work. Immaturity and passive/aggressive ways seem to be the main culprits here.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> I think that I have a pretty good hold on your husband. He knows that you will cave in so withholding is not going to work. Immaturity and passive/aggressive ways seem to be the main culprits here.


This. SO much, this.

Seriously, if he told you that you were 'un-sexy,' how the hell can he ever expect to look you in the eye again and ask for you to pleasure him, with his repeated BJ/HJ requests? I obviously don't have a full grasp on the subtleties of your marriage ... but I can tell you exactly what Lady Convection would say if I did what your H did; she would say that I think of her as a wh0re, since a man would not ask for sexual pleasures from a woman he considered sexually unappealing, unless he already thought of her but nothing as a receptacle, a piece of meat he could ejaculate into.

I am sorry if that sounds stark but this is all but indefensible on your husband's part. If he really thinks of you as un-sexy, he damn well needs to have a concrete way-ahead to fix it (i.e., "CW, I said I find you un-sexy, I would prefer you to A, B, C, and D really turns my motor.") At best, he is guilty of atrocious communication on this issue. At worst ....

If he is unable or unwilling to do that - to give you an honest discussion, without fault or blame - then I echo the above: blame-shifting, and a fairly vicious pass-aggressive attack to make on one's wife.

I wish you good luck with this; in all sincerity, I think you need it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Surely you don't believe that he is literally feeling pain because he has a build up of semen, do you? You husband is snowing you. And if he really was feeling pain from a build up, all you have to say "Sorry to hear that you are feeling pain given your current situation, but I cannot help you with that. Feel free to go to the bathroom and take care of your own needs".
> 
> I can see that you may be giving up and not fighting. However, nothing will change if you don't take a stand.


I am aware of blue balls.

I thought about telling him exactly that last night. But he did rub my back, and he got a promotion yesterday and was in such a good mood. I didn't want to ruin it for him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Convection said:


> This. SO much, this.
> 
> Seriously, if he told you that you were 'un-sexy,' how the hell can he ever expect to look you in the eye again and ask for you to pleasure him, with his repeated BJ/HJ requests? I obviously don't have a full grasp on the subtleties of your marriage ... but I can tell you exactly what Lady Convection would say if I did what your H did; she would say that I think of her as a wh0re, since a man would not ask for sexual pleasures from a woman he considered sexually unappealing, unless he already thought of her but nothing as a receptacle, a piece of meat he could ejaculate into.
> 
> I am sorry if that sounds stark but this is all but indefensible on your husband's part. If he really thinks of you as un-sexy, he damn well needs to have a concrete way-ahead to fix it (i.e., "CW, I said I find you un-sexy, I would prefer you to A, B, C, and D really turns my motor.") At best, he is guilty of atrocious communication on this issue. At worst ....
> 
> If he is unable or unwilling to do that - to give you an honest discussion, without fault or blame - then I echo the above: blame-shifting, and a fairly vicious pass-aggressive attack to make on one's wife.
> 
> I wish you good luck with this; in all sincerity, I think you need it.



I had never thought of it that way before. Thanks for the perspective. 

The only things he has ever commented about being more sexy is a strip tease, and me rubbing myself instead of him. But the last one is just a BS way to get him out of doing any work.


----------



## DesertRat1978

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I had never thought of it that way before. Thanks for the perspective.
> 
> The only things he has ever commented about being more sexy is a strip tease, and me rubbing myself instead of him. But the last one is just a BS way to get him out of doing any work.


You are correct. It is just BS. One fantasy that we have played out on occasion is having her tease me. However, it makes my desire for her skyrocket. That desire is very apparent and well communicated.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am aware of blue balls.
> 
> I thought about telling him exactly that last night. But he did rub my back, and he got a promotion yesterday and was in such a good mood. I didn't want to ruin it for him.


You're too nice. By that, I mean your husband uses your niceness against you to the point that you become his doormat. I'm sorry to see you go through this, but nothing will change unless you insist he change his ways. If you try to go even nicer to get him to respond in kind, what you'll actually see is him taking even more advantage of you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tyler1978 said:


> You are correct. It is just BS. One fantasy that we have played out on occasion is having her tease me. However, it makes my desire for her skyrocket. That desire is very apparent and well communicated.


I'd love to tease my husband. It sounds like fun.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> You're too nice. By that, I mean your husband uses your niceness against you to the point that you become his doormat. I'm sorry to see you go through this, but nothing will change unless you insist he change his ways. If you try to go even nicer to get him to respond in kind, what you'll actually see is him taking even more advantage of you.


I am well aware I am too nice, and that he takes advantage of me.

I have been a LOT better recently. I haven't been giving him any blow jobs or hand jobs that aren't reciprocated for a while now. I just cracked yesterday. 

I have been more insistent about how I want things, and things had been going better for a while. Just in the past 2 weeks things fell apart again and went down hill.

I just get down to the point sometimes where I think, why bother?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh dear god Curious I soooo want to jump through this computer screen and smack some sense into you....right after I beat the sh!t out of your pvssy husband!

He said WHAT?????

And you did WHAT?????

Girl.... OMG I can't even begin to get my anger in check to reply. I'll check back in when I'm calmer.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:lol:


----------



## Thunder7

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Oh dear god Curious I soooo want to jump through this computer screen and smack some sense into you....right after I beat the sh!t out of your pvssy husband!
> 
> He said WHAT?????
> 
> And you did WHAT?????
> 
> Girl.... OMG I can't even begin to get my anger in check to reply. I'll check back in when I'm calmer.


Like wasn't enough. Love, love, love this Anon. BTW, didn't realize the thread had shifted locations.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Thunder7 said:


> Like wasn't enough. Love, love, love this Anon. BTW, didn't realize the thread had shifted locations.


My threads always seem to jump everywhere. lol

I think I talk too much.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Okay...better now.

Your thread and your situation are very difficult for me to reply to. The reason is that you have placed some fairly inappropriate parameters on what you are willing to do to amend your marriage. 

Look honestly into yourself and ask yourself WHY you love a man who hurts and rejects you?

Attractive? Okay, maybe he is a good looking with a smoking bod, but how is that helping you in your life? How does his attractiveness lift you up, make you feel validated and fulfilled, make you feel loved? Don't answer because it doesn't.

We love people who meet our needs. Our needs for support, companionship, recreation, our need to feel loved. We may have a need to nurture, most women do. But the need to nurture should never be warped into a demand to accept the unacceptable.

Your husband has a beautiful young lovely wife who want him. Wants his love, wants his body, wants his attention and his affection. Your husband has warped your loving and nurturing soul into one of endless giving. He has turned everything back to you, each time you say I need this I want this, he finds a reason why it is YOUR fault he can't give it to you.

And you make excuses for yourself for allowing him to invalidate, minimize, and dismiss your needs. You say you are too nice? Bull Sh!T! You are damaged by his constant rejection and now when you are getting your feet under you and laying down some boundaries (no BJ's unless I get mine too) he comes up with a new and fvcking inexcusable reason to blame you for not being able to meet your needs.


I can't say anymore because I'm getting angry again. I would LOVE to meet him in real life! This 51 year old hot wife would cut him to fvcking shreds!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree with you. It sounds like another ploy to put the blame on me.
> 
> But I've often wondered if he doesn't find me sexy. Now I have my answer I guess.
> 
> Even though it's his problem, I'd still like to improve my sexual prowess, and be more sexy for my husband.
> 
> *Just because I love sex doesn't mean I'm good at it. Maybe I do need improvement. I don't know anymore.*


I swear if you EVER give him another BJ or HJ I will just go nuts!

Here is the gods honest truth. You can not be bad at something for which you demonstrate great enthusiasm!

Take my daughter...loves to song and sings it loud but can't hit a note to save her life. NOW one would think hearing her sing would be an exercise in patience and forgiveness. Not True! She has been asked to sing solos, she has been in choruses for which she had to try out.... Everyone wanted her enthusiasm and heart! 

You cannot be bad at something for which you demonstrate great enthusiasm!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Okay...better now.
> Attractive? Okay, maybe he is a good looking with a smoking bod, but how is that helping you in your life? How does his attractiveness lift you up, make you feel validated and fulfilled, make you feel loved? Don't answer because it doesn't.
> 
> *His attractiveness has nothing to do with how much I love him. He was chubby and funny looking when we started dating, so looks had nothing to do with it. That is just a good plus.*
> 
> Your husband has a beautiful young lovely wife who want him. Wants his love, wants his body, wants his attention and his affection. Your husband has warped your loving and nurturing soul into one of endless giving. He has turned everything back to you, each time you say I need this I want this, he finds a reason why it is YOUR fault he can't give it to you.
> 
> *True.*
> 
> And you make excuses for yourself for allowing him to invalidate, minimize, and dismiss your needs. You say you are too nice? Bull Sh!T! You are damaged by his constant rejection and now when you are getting your feet under you and laying down some boundaries (no BJ's unless I get mine too) he comes up with a new and fvcking inexcusable reason to blame you for not being able to meet your needs.
> 
> *I'm sure you're right. It's just another excuse on the long list of excuses. If it's not one thing it's another. I was wrong to slip up, but I'm only human. I will try, try again. *
> 
> I can't say anymore because I'm getting angry again. I would LOVE to meet him in real life! This 51 year old hot wife would cut him to fvcking shreds!


 :smthumbup: Maybe it would knock on sense into him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I swear if you EVER give him another BJ or HJ I will just go nuts!
> 
> Here is the gods honest truth. You can not be bad at something for which you demonstrate great enthusiasm!



But I LOVE giving him blow jobs and hand jobs. Why should I let him rob me of something I enjoy?


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Because you are empowering him and he does not reciprocate. A relationship needs a balance of give and take.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But I LOVE giving him blow jobs and hand jobs. Why should I let him rob me of something I enjoy?


And when you get to the point where you are completely broken, you'll be able to find a man who actually appreciates your love of bj's and hj's, and when that love is returned to you ten fold, just imagine how much you'll love giving them then..


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey I agree that I shouldn't be giving them unless I'm getting something in return. 

But I think it's a little extreme to say he can never ever have one again. Especially since I love giving them almost as much as he loves getting them.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Hey I agree that I shouldn't be giving them unless I'm getting something in return.
> 
> But I think it's a little extreme to say he can never ever have one again. Especially since I love giving them almost as much as he loves getting them.


But you are in an extreme situation that you want changed. I think you are realizing finally that where you are at in this marriage is not sustainable from your side. It's just not. Your humanity is slowly being eaten away one nibble at a time. Nothing will end up changing if you keep going the way you are and you know that in your heart. The only thing you will accomplish by continuing the way you are is that you will wake up ten years from now and realized you wasted all that time, the thing is, by then, there may be nothing else left of who you are. Nothing else left to ever share with someone else, no way to have the love you crave, the love you need. You will be a completely broken shell of a woman, and that would be a complete waste of the absolutely passionate, loving, sexual woman you are today. If nothing else, think of what you would be depriving of another man out there, a man who would love you as I do my STBW.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The problem is I don't want to be loved by another man.

I want the love of my husband. 

So I'm kind of at in impasse.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Adam Sandler - Love Stinks HD - YouTube


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The problem is I don't want to be loved by another man.
> 
> I want the love of my husband.
> 
> *So I'm kind of at in impasse*.


Yes you are, but in time that will change. You will continue feeling the way you do and one day you will have nothing left to give, and you will turn off like a light switch. You will no longer be in love with him, and you will no longer want to be loved by him. The impasse will be broken. You will be able to move on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Yes you are, but in time that will change. You will continue feeling the way you do and one day you will have nothing left to give, and you will turn off like a light switch. You will no longer be in love with him, and you will no longer want to be loved by him. The impasse will be broken. You will be able to move on.



That's what I'm waiting for.

Things will either get better and I will be happy. Or I will wake up one day and realize I don't love him anymore. When that day comes, I will know It's time to cut the cord.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That's what I'm waiting for.
> 
> Things will either get better and I will be happy. Or I will wake up one day and realize I don't love him anymore. When that day comes, I will know It's time to cut the cord.


I'm sure you've seen the plethora of "I love you but am not in love with you" threads around here. That is where you are headed.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That's what I'm waiting for.
> 
> Things will either get better and I will be happy. Or I will wake up one day and realize I don't love him anymore. When that day comes, I will know It's time to cut the cord.


But honey, bubbalah, darling... You are not waiting, that implies standing still. You are moving with him. Each time he rejects you, comes up with an excuse, insults you...you take it. You even are considering if you are a sexually attractive person based on what he said to you! That is not standing still, that is moving along with his current!

Standing still looks like this.

Him: I don't find you sexually attractive...
You: get the FVCK out!

Him: I don't find you sexually attractive...
You: and yet you get erections for blow jobs and hand jobs.

Him:that massage turned me on how about a BJ
You: so I should give you a BJ because you have expressed a need and because I love you I should take care of it, right? That's how our relationship works right?

Personally, I'd go for number 1.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But I think it's a little extreme to say he can never ever have one again. Especially since I love giving them almost as much as he loves getting them.



I enjoy house painting as much as I enjoy a lot of other things. Nothing better than a gallon of good paint, a fresh roller, a good audio book on my iPod and good coffee.

The wife absolutely loves me doing it. But, she does not exactly loves doing other things for/with me, so you can rest assured, a week or two project (1 bedroom, bath, closet) will turn into the never ending story....

The Moral of the story is left as an exercise to the reader.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Husband - hmm, seems like a while since I got a blow job.
MissScarlett - hmm, seems like a while since I'VE gotten a blow job too. That's a strange coincidence.

Gratuitous oral and hj will only be doled out based on my satisfaction level. If I'm happy = as much oral as you can handle.

This is kind of a crucial time right now, curious. I can't tell you how difficult it is to change course after 18 years of habit has set in. I wonder what could have happened if I had done this when we were newly married like you are instead of letting the years slip by thinking things would magically get better. 

And for your husbands information it DOES hurt a woman to be aroused and made to wait. True there is no buildup of fluids like with a man, but seriously. It does hurt.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You're also likely to not always have the drive you have. 10 or 15 years from now, after repeated denials and real life stress takes its toll, you could end up being the wife who doesn't want sex any more either. 

When H and I first got together, 2-3 times a day was my ideal. Now, It's more like 2-3 times per year. I'm not sure if it would come back if I were with someone new. Certainly not to the level it was before.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"blue balls" is simply an excuse men use to justify their wants. Testicles do not swell from lack of sex. The only pain he was feeling was the pain of not getting his BJ.

Not that some men do not actually have medical problems with their testicles. But he is probably only saying this when he wants to manipulate you. 

Never, never give him anything unless you get yours first, at least until he can show that he considers your needs to be as important as his. He can go polish it himself until then.

Well this is interesting: 
He says you lie there and make him do all the work and you and say you are just as active as him. 

But I have to wonder that what he is really saying is that you expect foreplay and he would just as soon get all the attention himself? 

Because I just have trouble believing that you are actually passive. 
When you two have sex do you take his clothes off?

I would think that many of us men married to LD women would say they tend to just lie there. Early on my wife would not even touch my thingy unless I touched her first. And she does in fact just like to lie back and enjoy foreplay. But these type women will also tend to be quite, not want to change positions, etc..


----------



## Thunder7

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> "blue balls" is simply an excuse men use to justify their wants. Testicles do not swell from lack of sex. The only pain he was feeling was the pain of not getting his BJ.


Although I will say that if I go without any kind of sex for a prolonged period of time I tend to expel semen after I urinate, like there's a buildup that needs to be disposed of. And it is quite uncomfortable. Don't know if that's just me. I've been told I produce an unusually high volume of semenal fluids. Sorry if that was too graphic.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What is a prolonged period?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In the scenario curious found herself in - she wanted sex. The whole deal. He was going to get off during this sex that she wanted.

Instead of spending the time gettting each other off they instead have to fight about he doesn't want sex, just a hand job. Because it's been too long for him apparently and he needs release - he just doesn't want to get HER off.

My point being - he must think women dont get uncomfortable when they are aroused with no release. We do get physically uncomfortable when aroused for a prolonged amount of time.

So it's not that he wasn't uncomfortable. It that she was too and yet he pestered her for a hand job till she gave in.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> In the scenario curious found herself in - she wanted sex. The whole deal. He was going to get off during this sex that she wanted.
> 
> Instead of spending the time gettting each other off they instead have to fight about he doesn't want sex, just a hand job. Because it's been too long for him apparently and he needs release - he just doesn't want to get HER off.
> 
> My point being - he must think women dont get uncomfortable when they are aroused with no release. We do get physically uncomfortable when aroused for a prolonged amount of time.
> 
> So it's not that he wasn't uncomfortable. It that she was too and yet he pestered her for a hand job till she gave in.


Doesn't that just make you so mad you could spit bullets?


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

She needs to change the dynamics of this relationship. He has become successful in cutting her down so much that she doesn't feel sexy and alive in this relationship. I see that he wants to lead the sex, he wants it to be his idea to have sex. So he discourages her by purposefully making her mad and turned off, then turning it around by initiating sex. By this time she doesn't want to, now the ball is in his court. This is where he wants it to be, so he feels powerful in every sexual encounter by doing this.

The only answer to this problem is not being more sexy, more inviting, more more more....NO! Back it up a bit, make him wonder and STOP initiating. Put the brakes on this disaster, right now he is steering the sex his way by making her undermine her sexuality. Then get out of the house and do what makes you happy, do the 180. This situation calls for it because you are coming off as clingy, harden towards him a bit. If you say you are afraid of losing him you will continue on this train wreck. He probably knows this, which is why he acts the way he does.

Stop making him the center of your world, you can interact normally but just stop all of the touching, begging, and getting mad about sex. You need to change this dynamic, most men would give their right arm for a woman who makes them feel desired and wanted and he is throwing that away. He will never understand how you feel because you still give him everything he wants. He will only see it when you do a 180.

There is something called tough love and you have to dish some out.


----------



## Thunder7

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> What is a prolonged period?


I would say any time over 3-4 weeks. Especially if I've been horny but there's no action taking place. It feels like a lot of starting and stopping.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



techmom said:


> She needs to change the dynamics of this relationship. He has become successful in cutting her down so much that she doesn't feel sexy and alive in this relationship. * I see that he wants to lead the sex, he wants it to be his idea to have sex. So he discourages her by purposefully making her mad and turned off, then turning it around by initiating sex. By this time she doesn't want to, now the ball is in his court.* *THIS IS EXACT!* This is where he wants it to be, so he feels powerful in every sexual encounter by doing this.
> 
> The only answer to this problem is not being more sexy, more inviting, more more more....NO! Back it up a bit, make him wonder and STOP initiating. Put the brakes on this disaster, right now he is steering the sex his way by making her undermine her sexuality. Then get out of the house and do what makes you happy, do the 180. This situation calls for it because you are coming off as clingy, harden towards him a bit. If you say you are afraid of losing him you will continue on this train wreck. He probably knows this, which is why he acts the way he does.
> 
> Stop making him the center of your world, you can interact normally but just stop all of the touching, begging, and getting mad about sex. You need to change this dynamic, most men would give their right arm for a woman who makes them feel desired and wanted and he is throwing that away. He will never understand how you feel because you still give him everything he wants. He will only see it when you do a 180.
> 
> There is something called tough love and you have to dish some out.


I fully agree with this.

I find it interesting that I have always been such a strong willed, independent person, and I still am in a lot of things. But for some reason I feel so dependent on him for my happiness. 

I am being the clingy, needy wife. And it's just so strange, because that isn't me...

I have already began the "cool down." For at least a week or two I've been more withdrawn, I don't bring up sex, if he says something about it I just kind of shrug it off or act uninterested.

It wasn't really even on purpose, I'm just tired of it all, at this point I'm more disgusted than anything. 

I don't want to be around him. I don't want to kiss him, I don't want to snuggle. 

I've done this numerous times in the past though, and it may or may not help for a while. Usually it doesn't change anything except I get even less sex. 

Taking away sex and intimacy from a LD, isn't a very big threat... He doesn't even seem to notice.

Although I can tell he is getting a little hurt that I don't want to kiss him or snuggle. He definitively misses that more than the sex.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"Although I can tell he is getting a little hurt that I don't want to kiss him or snuggle. He definitively misses that more than the sex." 

Sounds like a typical LD


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> "Although I can tell he is getting a little hurt that I don't want to kiss him or snuggle. He definitively misses that more than the sex."
> 
> Sounds like a typical LD


Yeah. He hasn't even seemed to have picked up that we haven't had sex for a week. Except when he asked for a hj. 

The night I gave him a hj I was sitting with him on the couch and I wasn't overtly snuggling up to him or anything, but my legs were touching him. (I miss physical contact.) He said he was crowded and asked me to go sit on another chair because the couch wasn't big enough for both of us. 

So I got up, and I haven't sit next to him since. When he asked about it I just told him I didn't want him to be "crowded." But last night he was pleading with me to sit close to him so he could snuggle me. He said he missed smelling my hair. 

He also spooned me all night last night, so I can tell he is missing physical touch.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,
Similar to what I went through.
I stopped intitating sex. So... we didn't have sex for 3 months. 
Not a word was said.

I cooled down the hugging, snuggling, acting like everything was "great".
THAT got his attention immediately. 

It's pretty much impossible to NOT take all that personally. 
But it was very very hard for me to accept that my stxh has some very deep emotional issues going on. He's just simply not able to be vulnerable enough for PIV intimacy, or do what it is needed to get there.

He has convinced himself that non-sexual affection (including BJ's) is all he needs to feel loved.

IN the end, who am I to argue? If he's happy with that, so be it.
I'm not. Thus we are no longer together. Peace.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



deejov said:


> Curious,
> Similar to what I went through.
> I stopped intitating sex. So... we didn't have sex for 3 months.
> Not a word was said.
> 
> I cooled down the hugging, snuggling, acting like everything was "great".
> THAT got his attention immediately.
> 
> It's pretty much impossible to NOT take all that personally.
> But it was very very hard for me to accept that my stxh has some very deep emotional issues going on. He's just simply not able to be vulnerable enough for PIV intimacy, or do what it is needed to get there.
> 
> He has convinced himself that non-sexual affection (including BJ's) is all he needs to feel loved.
> 
> IN the end, who am I to argue? If he's happy with that, so be it.
> I'm not. Thus we are no longer together. Peace.


This really is the bottom line, but it's a long and bumpy ride to get there.

Where does a wife draw the line between what is normal male uncommunicative behavior, what is normal at all, and what is behavior that needs work and must change.

What do you want in a loving relationship and what are you willing to settle for?

ETA, Curious, I'd put an end to the spooning too. That's his way of staying connected on his terms. It's giving you a teaspoon of water when you're dying of thirst! Just enough to give you something but not enough to actually meet your needs.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My own two cents...
But where do you draw the line?
Here...
Look objectively at yourself, and determine if you are depending on your spouse to give you something that you need to give yourself.
(is your sense of self worth and self esteem dependent upon the actions of someone who is now in control?)

If you are too "needy"... there are many things you can do to improve how you FEEL and see the situation. Has nothing to do with changing the person. 

If you are in a good head space to not take it personally, you are confident that you ARE sexy, attractive, and a caring person... then the problem is easier to see.

It's not you. It's them.

There are just as many reasons why someone withholds as there are answers.

But the bottom line is you cannot change them. The truth is...if you don't' have good boundaries, they will change YOU, for the worse. 

Thus the line becomes.... make sure you have good boundaries. They will step up or not.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yesterday was disappointing, and odd... :scratchhead:

Yesterday was the first day we could have sex without condoms after 3 weeks.

In the afternoon he was literately begging for sex. I wasn't having any of it. I just wanted him to get away from me. 

I told him I wasn't in the mood and he gave me his classic line if I turn him down. "But your a horn dog. Your always in the mood."

He tried lighting candles and giving me a back rub. We fooled around a little, but it just wasn't working for me.

I told him no, but after I thought about it for a while I decided to give him a challenge. We were going on a double date that evening, and I told him if he was polite to them (he doesn't like my best friend) and if he could get me in the mood by the time we got home I'd consider it. 

So we go on our date, and we have a great time. When we got home I was in a much better mood but still a little put off by sex. But I decided to give him a chance to get me in the mood.

He has been reading my sex book, and has some new position ideas to try. So we are kissing and playing around. We are excited about "naked" PIV so we decide to do a little PIV before he starts rubbing me. Which we normally do this, so no big deal.

Well he gets in, and he isn't thrusting, but I'm pretty tight because it's been so long. Literately in 10 seconds I hear "uh oh" and then he looks at me and says "oops."

I am shocked and ask him if he is kidding, and he just apologizes. I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, because he is really embarrassed by this point.

After he finishes he is usually DONE, like he just falls asleep and has absolutely no interest in me or anything sexual especially. But he says he still wants me to have a good time, and finish me. So he starts rubbing, but it's so awkward. He is sitting there with his eyes closed, and neither of us is making a sound. I can't touch him or anything. He rubs for a couple minutes and it is feeling really great, and I think I can finish quickly so I figure I'll just let him do it. But every time I'm about to go he dozes off and stops rubbing for a couple seconds. After he does this at least 3 times in a 5 minute span I just sit up and push him off of me. He apologizes again, and I roll over and go to sleep. 



It sucked. I'm trying not to get too upset, because I know it wasn't his fault. But I can't help but be disappointed. 

He has never been a "quick draw." I guess the combination of using condoms for 2 weeks, then no sex for a week, and all the fooling around before, he just couldn't handle it. 

Before I fell asleep I mentioned that I hope I can remember how to orgasm since I've only had like 2 this last month. He just said, "maybe next time."

I just wish he didn't have such a whatever attitude to my sexual needs. I just want him to hold me down and say, "Baby, I know it's been so long for you, you're probably dying. So we are just going to lay here all night until you get yours." 

Now I'm even less in the mood for sex.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My wife is like that, once she is done it is lights out. And if for some reason I did not finish than too bad.

You need to recognize that that is the way he is and then optimize sex for him. Maybe straight to PiV is fun to try but if it is late than maybe you just need to make sure you get yours first.

Do not blame him for being him. Rather you need to learn to manipulate him to be better for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well usually I do get mine before his. We often have PIV 2 or 3 times before he actually finishes. Because I enjoy the PIV as well. 

I think we were both a little shocked that he lost it so early. That hasn't happened before. 

It just made a bad week worse.


----------



## fightforher

TheCuriousWife said:


> Yesterday was disappointing, and odd... :scratchhead:
> 
> Yesterday was the first day we could have sex without condoms after 3 weeks.
> 
> In the afternoon he was literately begging for sex. I wasn't having any of it. I just wanted him to get away from me.
> 
> I told him I wasn't in the mood and he gave me his classic line if I turn him down. "But your a horn dog. Your always in the mood."
> 
> He tried lighting candles and giving me a back rub. We fooled around a little, but it just wasn't working for me.
> 
> I told him no, but after I thought about it for a while I decided to give him a challenge. We were going on a double date that evening, and I told him if he was polite to them (he doesn't like my best friend) and if he could get me in the mood by the time we got home I'd consider it.
> 
> So we go on our date, and we have a great time. When we got home I was in a much better mood but still a little put off by sex. But I decided to give him a chance to get me in the mood.
> 
> He has been reading my sex book, and has some new position ideas to try. So we are kissing and playing around. We are excited about "naked" PIV so we decide to do a little PIV before he starts rubbing me. Which we normally do this, so no big deal.
> 
> Well he gets in, and he isn't thrusting, but I'm pretty tight because it's been so long. Literately in 10 seconds I hear "uh oh" and then he looks at me and says "oops."
> 
> I am shocked and ask him if he is kidding, and he just apologizes. I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, because he is really embarrassed by this point.
> 
> After he finishes he is usually DONE, like he just falls asleep and has absolutely no interest in me or anything sexual especially. But he says he still wants me to have a good time, and finish me. So he starts rubbing, but it's so awkward. He is sitting there with his eyes closed, and neither of us is making a sound. I can't touch him or anything. He rubs for a couple minutes and it is feeling really great, and I think I can finish quickly so I figure I'll just let him do it. But every time I'm about to go he dozes off and stops rubbing for a couple seconds. After he does this at least 3 times in a 5 minute span I just sit up and push him off of me. He apologizes again, and I roll over and go to sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> It sucked. I'm trying not to get too upset, because I know it wasn't his fault. But I can't help but be disappointed.
> 
> He has never been a "quick draw." I guess the combination of using condoms for 2 weeks, then no sex for a week, and all the fooling around before, he just couldn't handle it.
> 
> Before I fell asleep I mentioned that I hope I can remember how to orgasm since I've only had like 2 this last month. He just said, "maybe next time."
> 
> I just wish he didn't have such a whatever attitude to my sexual needs. I just want him to hold me down and say, "Baby, I know it's been so long for you, you're probably dying. So we are just going to lay here all night until you get yours."
> 
> Now I'm even less in the mood for sex.


Wow, to the score is Mr. curious two, Mrs. curious zero. Very unfair results.

II have to ask, is this really typical of a LD husband? Or is this more like a controlling husband? The actions speak of selfish and not just low drive. I would have thought a LD person when turned down would have backed off, and just said, "Okay, later" or "Okay, let me know when you are ready, I can wait."

In addition, I would have expected somebody that is not selfish to do something to stay awake to satisfy you. Like eat a little high sugar item. But to fall asleep three times ... Gotta try harder than that when it is really important.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Wow, to the score is Mr. curious two, Mrs. curious zero. Very unfair results.
> 
> II have to ask, is this really typical of a LD husband? Or is this more like a controlling husband? The actions speak of selfish and not just low drive. I would have thought a LD person when turned down would have backed off, and just said, "Okay, later" or "Okay, let me know when you are ready, I can wait."
> 
> In addition, I would have expected somebody that is not selfish to do something to stay awake to satisfy you. Like eat a little high sugar item. But to fall asleep three times ... Gotta try harder than that when it is really important.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm guessing he is low T, but mostly selfish.

And yes, that is what bothers me. He just doesn't _really_ care about my needs. 

He says he cares, but if it was true he would have sat up and stayed awake, and put an actual effort in. It just makes me so mad. 

Especially since I haven't gotten a dang thing in a week, and before that it was slim pickings.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Seems unfair. 
If he is so tired that he is falling asleep while actively doing something. He must really be pretty physically tired and not just bored.

I sit up in bed while giving my wife manual stimulation and can't imagine how I could possible nod off during that time because I also find her stimulation stimulating. 

It seems like you are expecting his body to work exactly like yours. Maybe his orgasm just puts his lights out and that is just the way his body works.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> Seems unfair.
> If he is so tired that he is falling asleep while actively doing something. He must really be pretty physically tired and not just bored.
> 
> I sit up in bed while giving my wife manual stimulation and can't imagine how I could possible nod off during that time because I also find her stimulation stimulating.
> 
> It seems like you are expecting his body to work exactly like yours. Maybe his orgasm just puts his lights out and that is just the way his body works.


Following her story here, it's not that he's too tired, or that his body just doesn't work like hers. He's never be too tired, or fall asleep if the offer of an unreciporicated bj or hj was out there. This is a man who is more than willing and happy to get his from his wife, but not willing to give back. He is very much a selfish sexual gatekeeper with a flesh and blood masturbation tool.


----------



## fightforher

TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm guessing he is low T, but mostly selfish.
> 
> And yes, that is what bothers me. He just doesn't _really_ care about my needs.
> 
> He says he cares, but if it was true he would have sat up and stayed awake, and put an actual effort in. It just makes me so mad.
> 
> Especially since I haven't gotten a dang thing in a week, and before that it was slim pickings.


Ok, this one really burns me up. First he tells you that your are not very sexy, then he can't even control himself enough to not pop off in a few molments of being inside you. Just does not make sense. You have worked him up with your every sexy move and mannerism to the point where he can't control himself.

I am wondering if this thread should not be renamed to the manipulative husband journal. In my opinion, he needs to wake up and work with you rather than fane a loss of interest in you. Somebody has to shake your husband up and show him that it will be so much nicer if he works with his wife rather than try to control her and stuff her into a unfulfilled place.

Or we could call it the selfish husband journal.

Sorry if I am harsh, but he is hurting you and getting his jollys and this behavior needs to change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Following her story here, it's not that he's too tired, or that his body just doesn't work like hers.
> 
> *He's never be too tired, or fall asleep if the offer of an unreciporicated bj or hj was out there. *
> 
> This is a man who is more than willing and happy to get his from his wife, but not willing to give back. He is very much a selfish sexual gatekeeper with a flesh and blood masturbation tool.



huh?
I am going to guess you mean: 
He has never been too tired or has fallen asleep when he is wanting a BJ or HJ.

Why would we expect him to be tired if he is wanting a BJ when his lights do not turn of until after he has come?

Maybe he is not willing to give back I don't know. I have not personally experienced his behavior. I am simply saying that in this particular case it may have been a physical reaction.

The question is that if she asks for oral or a HJ while he is awake and not just after sex -is he willing to give her one?

If she asks for him to reciprocate with oral tonight will he say yes or say maybe next week?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> Seems unfair.
> If he is so tired that he is falling asleep while actively doing something. He must really be pretty physically tired and not just bored.
> 
> I sit up in bed while giving my wife manual stimulation and can't imagine how I could possible nod off during that time because I also find her stimulation stimulating.
> 
> It seems like you are expecting his body to work exactly like yours. Maybe his orgasm just puts his lights out and that is just the way his body works.



He isn't that physically tired. I'm more busy than him. He has a relaxing job. 

Also this ISN'T the first time he has fallen asleep, and it's BEFORE he gets 'his.' So that is no excuse. It happens semi frequently. Especially the last couple months. I've gotten to the point where if he falls asleep I just push him away and that is the end of sex for both of us.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Ok, this one really burns me up. First he tells you that your are not very sexy, then he can't even control himself enough to not pop off in a few molments of being inside you. Just does not make sense. You have worked him up with your every sexy move and mannerism to the point where he can't control himself.
> 
> I am wondering if this thread should not be renamed to the manipulative husband journal. In my opinion, he needs to wake up and work with you rather than fane a loss of interest in you. Somebody has to shake your husband up and show him that it will be so much nicer if he works with his wife rather than try to control her and stuff her into a unfulfilled place.
> 
> Or we could call it the selfish husband journal.
> 
> Sorry if I am harsh, but he is hurting you and getting his jollys and this behavior needs to change.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yeah..... For being so "unsexy" I sure got him fired up last night. :scratchhead:

I'm just tired and upset. I don't even know where to go from here. Feeling pretty down.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> The question is that if she asks for oral or a HJ while he is awake and not just after sex -is he willing to give her one?
> 
> If she asks for him to reciprocate with oral tonight will he say yes or say maybe next week?


I've never had him accidentally go before me like this. So I've never asked after sex. 

If I asked him tonight he would say no. Because he got off yesterday, and his "rules" clearly state that there will be no sexual contact the day after he has an orgasm... 

Plus he doesn't do oral to completion on me... Another "rule."

Maybe I need to make myself a print out so I can remember all his rules...


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am LOL at the irony of my husband asking me today for a written list of my rules because it seems they keep changing.

Carry on - and I'm sorry. I keep hoping, since you guys have so many years ahead of you, that you will get things works out and have many happy years together.

I know it is difficult to not just give up, meaning to go sexually dead inside so it doesn't hurt anymore. Keep up the good fight.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I am LOL at the irony of my husband asking me today for a written list of my rules because it seems they keep changing.
> 
> Carry on - and I'm sorry. I keep hoping, since you guys have so many years ahead of you, that you will get things works out and have many happy years together.
> 
> I know it is difficult to not just give up, meaning to go sexually dead inside so it doesn't hurt anymore. Keep up the good fight.



Thanks for the encouragement! I always love hearing from you.

Right now I'm feeling pretty sexually dead. It's easier and less painful... 

That is hilarious about your husband and the rules. 

Maybe we should compare notes? :rofl:


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Pinks rules:

She cums first, then again, then a third time. Then whatever you want baby!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Pinks rules:
> 
> She cums first, then again, then a third time. Then whatever you want baby!


I like that! :smthumbup:

Unfortunately I don't think I've ever even had a 2nd orgasm. So I think he'd pee himself if I gave him that rule.

I'd love to hear other people's "rules!"

What must you have during sex, or what must they not do? 

This is interesting.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Pinks rules:
> 
> She cums first, then again, then a third time. Then whatever you want baby!


I understand the idea behind this, but boy it can sound like entitlement and princessification sometimes.

With my STBW and I, there is no real conscious thought to who gets off first as pretty much every sexual session, it's just assumed that we are both going to get off as many times as we want. I would say she cums first maybe 60% of the time, and if she's feeling like multiples, she gets them. I am fortunate in that I stay hard and can keep going for as long as ten minutes after I O, and don't seem to get hit by the tiredness a lot of men do.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We have lots of rules...but not that kind.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I understand the idea behind this, but boy it can sound like entitlement and princessification sometimes.
> 
> With my STBW and I, there is no real conscious thought to who gets off first as pretty much every sexual session, it's just assumed that we are both going to get off as many times as we want. I would say she cums first maybe 60% of the time, and if she's feeling like multiples, she gets them. I am fortunate in that I stay hard and can keep going for as long as ten minutes after I O, and don't seem to get hit by the tiredness a lot of men do.




If only this was true in my case. 

Every time we have sex I'm wondering if this will be the time I finally get some, or will I be left disappointed again.

In fact, I'm starting to lose faith that he can get me there with any consistency. If I'm not completely aroused and horny before sex, I wonder why bother. He won't get me there, and i'll be left disappointed and more resentful. 

After he climaxes he is done. He goes flat in about 5 seconds, and he jumps out of bed. No snuggling, no holding, no words of affirmation. 

I'm just sick of it all, and I really feel like telling him I have a head ache anytime he initiates from now on. 

..........................

Sorry for being a debbie downer, I'm normally not this whiny and cranky... This is what happens when I don't get laid for an extended period of time.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> I understand the idea behind this, but boy it can sound like entitlement and princessification sometimes.
> 
> With my STBW and I, there is no real conscious thought to who gets off first as pretty much every sexual session, it's just assumed that we are both going to get off as many times as we want. I would say she cums first maybe 60% of the time, and if she's feeling like multiples, she gets them. I am fortunate in that I stay hard and can keep going for as long as ten minutes after I O, and don't seem to get hit by the tiredness a lot of men do.


Sometimes her orgasm is entitlement, my apologies to the politicization of that word. When you've spent 15 years in a marriage in which your orgasm is not a thought or concern...hell yes there is entitlement!

I am NO princess! I am entitled to have my orgasms a higher priority.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> If only this was true in my case.
> 
> Every time we have sex I'm wondering if this will be the time I finally get some, or will I be left disappointed again.
> 
> In fact, I'm starting to lose faith that he can get me there with any consistency. If I'm not completely aroused and horny before sex, I wonder why bother. He won't get me there, and i'll be left disappointed and more resentful.
> 
> After he climaxes he is done. He goes flat in about 5 seconds, and he jumps out of bed. No snuggling, no holding, no words of affirmation.
> 
> I'm just sick of it all, and I really feel like telling him I have a head ache anytime he initiates from now on.
> 
> ..........................
> 
> Sorry for being a debbie downer, I'm normally not this whiny and cranky... This is what happens when I don't get laid for an extended period of time.


Two orgasms in the last month????????????????????????????

This is what happens when you give and give and allow your needs to go unmet. You shut down sexually. You lose all desire. Your next step will be resentment. And that will kill your marriage.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Neither my STBW nor I really go out of our way to get the other off most of the time. It just happens naturally through the course of what we do together, and there is always snuggling, holding, caressing, lovey dovey mushy talk, and she's usually the one to get out of bed first if we don't just fall asleep holding each other first.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Two orgasms in the last month????????????????????????????
> 
> This is what happens when you give and give and allow your needs to go unmet. You shut down sexually. You lose all desire. Your next step will be resentment. And that will kill your marriage.


I know. I already resent. 

It just fires me up that when I even mentioned that last night he wasn't like, "oh man. I didn't realize" or "we will try better..."

All I got in reply was, "maybe next time" and then he fell asleep. 

He isn't getting another single orgasm from me, until he puts out! And I'm not sure when I will give him that chance.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've never had him accidentally go before me like this. So I've never asked after sex.
> 
> If I asked him tonight he would say no. Because he got off yesterday, and his "rules" clearly state that there will be no sexual contact the day after he has an orgasm...
> 
> Plus he doesn't do oral to completion on me... Another "rule."
> 
> Maybe I need to make myself a print out so I can remember all his rules...



He wants you to go down on him but he will not do the same? 
Just seems completely unacceptable to me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Neither my STBW nor I really go out of our way to get the other off most of the time. It just happens naturally through the course of what we do together, and there is always snuggling, holding, caressing, lovey dovey mushy talk, and she's usually the one to get out of bed first if we don't just fall asleep holding each other first.


Our sexual encounters aren't mushy and lovey dovey. They are for one goal, and that is to give him an orgasm, and me one if I'm lucky. 

I wish it "just happened" but it doesn't. Everything is forced.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm glad you found your boundaries. I'm sorry you had such a bumpy and bruising ride to get them.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have tried hard to give him some benefit of the doubt but really I am thinking he is just spoiled and thinks he can get away with anything. I think you deserve better.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I'm glad you found your boundaries. I'm sorry you had such a bumpy and bruising ride to get them.












This is what I look like right now. lol

I'm sure my struggles aren't over. I will eventually get laid, and calm down again, and then it will start all over. 

I think it's time to have another talk with the husband. I can't stand it! How emotionally damaging to him would it be to tell him I hate our sex life?


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Sometimes her orgasm is entitlement, my apologies to the politicization of that word. When you've spent 15 years in a marriage in which your orgasm is not a thought or concern...hell yes there is entitlement!
> 
> I am NO princess! *I am entitled to have my orgasms a higher priority*.


I would agree with this given your situation. The issue I have with the 'she cums first' philosophy is as it is applied to a relationship where all else is already equal. I'm simply not going to put her needs in bed above mine, nor will I put mine above hers. We know each others bodies and minds, and know how to use them for our own mutual satisfaction. We are just very sexually attuned to each other.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> I have tried hard to give him some benefit of the doubt but really I am thinking he is just spoiled and thinks he can get away with anything. I think you deserve better.


I too gave him the benefit of a doubt for a long time. I'm seeing stuff clearer now, at least today.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This is what I look like right now. lol
> 
> I'm sure my struggles aren't over. I will eventually get laid, and calm down again, and then it will start all over.
> 
> I think it's time to have another talk with the husband. I can't stand it! *How emotionally damaging to him would it be to tell him I hate our sex life*?


No more emotionally damaging to him than hating your sex life is to you.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

sam....just curious, why are you so edgy about any type of entitlement issues? I am assuming this comes from your previous marriage issues?


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> sam....just curious, why are you so edgy about any type of entitlement issues? I am assuming this comes from your previous marriage issues?


For sure, a lot of it comes from my previous marriage. I also think that it is something that a lot of men feel to some degree or another, but simply won't vocalize. It's pretty obvious that a lot of women feel the same way...that a lot of men have an entitlement complex.

I really do think that the 'I deserve this simply because I'm a woman/man' mindset can be toxic.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And I really need to cut back on how harsh I might be coming across, and Anon, if it seems like I am attacking you on this, I really am not. You have every right to even things up for the years you went without, no question. In no way did I mean to imply or suggest that I felt like you, or TCW for that matter have any sort of entitlement mindset. If I offended or ruffled feathers, I do apologize.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hmmm....I just didn't see the words "because I'm a woman" on Anon's post about "she comes first" at all. Seems a little projection-ish.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No worries on my end. I'm not easily ruffled, and I think everyone is _entitled_ to their own opinion.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he is allowed to say that you are not "sexy" than I think you are allowed to say: "I hate our sex life"

For me, if my wife told me that, I would not take much offense. My response would be what can I do to make it better? 

Maybe it is an age thing though and maybe when I was his age I would have been more defensive.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> If he is allowed to say that you are not "sexy" than I think you are allowed to say: "I hate our sex life"
> 
> For me, if my wife told me that, I would not take much offense. My response would be what can I do to make it better?
> 
> Maybe it is an age thing though and maybe when I was his age I would have been more defensive.


I think I will just come out and tell him I'm not pleased.

It won't be tonight though. I have class all evening. Poop. Tomorrow evening, hopefully.


----------



## notmarriedyet

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think I will just come out and tell him I'm not pleased.
> 
> 
> 
> It won't be tonight though. I have class all evening. Poop. Tomorrow evening, hopefully.



Good luck in class. 

I agree with marriedguy. What's good for the goose is good for the gander ....

I think he ought to know that you're unhappy, not pleased, downright pissed about your sex life!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He isn't getting another single orgasm from me, until he puts out! And I'm not sure when I will give him that chance.


My suggestion is not to limit it to just sex. When you stopped the physical contact and affection, you actually saw some agitation in him. Keep aligning your actions with your words, and loudly make clear that because he is not meeting your needs, you need to take care of yourself and don't have the time to meet his needs.


----------



## Thunder7

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I feel for you CW. I have to say I am also in the 'she cums first' camp. It doesn't always happen, but most of the time. And when I do, I'll do my damnedest to rectify that situation. Good luck.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

THis was certainly not the right tread for me to go against the whole 'She cums first' mantra because it is entirely appropriate in this and similar situations.

I just feel that in a good and balanced relationship, no concerted effort would really be needed to make sure the balance is there. It should just happen naturally. With my STBW and I, she probably out O's me 5-3, and gets hers first maybe 60% of the time. The important thing is that she is always left feeling satisfied, and like she got the better end of the deal. The way our sex life has naturally progressed has led her to not only do things she only did out of obligation in the past, but to actually enjoy, and crave doing. It's not about evening the score, keeping a level field, its about mutually enjoying and giving pleasure to each other.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't think the concept of her cumming first has anything to do with her being 'more entitled'. I think it has to due with typical male versus typical female sexual responses. It's rare that men fail to orgasm during sex. It's not at all uncommon for women to fail to orgasm.

Many men lose interest/ability immediately after orgasm. The reality is if she orgasms first she can most likely continue until he can orgasm. The contrary is rarely true. 

I realize there are exceptions to this as there are to everything.

...just my two cents worth.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't know what to do tonight. 

I'm almost positive that he is going to bring up having sex.

And dang I want some.... But I don't at the same time?

I love the idea of sex, I love fantasizing about it. 

But when it actually comes down to it, it never lives up to my dreams, and I just end up frustrated and disappointed. 

I am unsure at this point if I should have sex and hopefully it will improve my mood. Or if I should continue with my 180 attitude, and turn him down. 

I think about and want sex now. But when I get home, and he gets close to me, I am disgusted, not turned on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And to be clear I'm not fantasizing kinky, never going to happen things, that are just not realistic.

I fantasize about having oral done on me, or my husband taking his time, or about sensual massages... 

Things that are easily attainable for most... Just not in my marriage.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And to be clear I'm not fantasizing kinky, never going to happen things, that are just not realistic.
> 
> I fantasize about having oral done on me, or my husband taking his time, or about sensual massages...
> 
> Things that are easily attainable for most... Just not in my marriage.


I do it for my current. Wouldn't really do that in my past, I had a short attention span and I didn't "know" I wanted to do it. Didn't realize that improving the quality of life and pleasure for my partner could make so much of a difference in my life, because the RIGHT person would be also willing to improve your life in other ways.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Has anyone ever explained to him that the more you enjoy it, the more he will enjoy it - at least that is what my husband tells me!


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Has anyone ever explained to him that the more you enjoy it, the more he will enjoy it - at least that is what my husband tells me!


She's explained that, and many other things as well 37 times from Tuesday, and he doesn't care.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> She's explained that, and many other things as well 37 times from Tuesday, and he doesn't care.


Yep. He seems to have a case of selective memory loss. 

But I still don't know what to do tonight.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think you should talk first. Sex later if both of you feel like it after the talk. But I think you need to talk to him and let him know how unhappy you are with the way it has gone lately. Do not attack him, don't put blame on anybody. Just stick to explaining your feelings and your wants for the future.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know it's too late, but continue the 180. You have difficulty orgasming because you know deep in your bones your man doesn't give a crap whether you orgasm or not. That means rejection. It's difficult to let go and enjoy it when there is a deep undercurrent of feelings of being rejected.

Frankly, I don't see the orgasm issue being put to rest for a very long time, if ever, because your husband has shown his true colors. One cannot unhear things, one cannot rewrite actual rejections. Not for a very LONG time of HIM doing his level best each and every time to demonstrate TO YOU that you are important and that being the kind of lover you want is just as important to him as it is to you.

From everything you have written, I don't see this happening at all ever with your H.

It took years for us to work our way back from sexual dysfunction, and my H never outright rejected me, he just never showed that I mattered to him. Which is a very subtle form of rejection. Your H blatantly rejects you, verbally rejects you. 

CW, write down what you want in a husband/lover. Write down the specifics. If he wants to know how to fix things, give it to him and tell him you will settle for NOTHING less.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't see if happening either. 

I honestly don't think he has it in him, to please me, and really put an effort in, for me to recover from all the damage that he has done. That makes me sad. 

It also makes me sad that when I try to bring it up, or tell him how unhappy I am with our sex life he doesn't see a single thing wrong, and he thinks I'm just being a rebel rouser.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Blame deflection, he can't meet your needs so therefor your needs must be over the top. They are normal rational average needs for anyone, man or woman.

Minimizing, he gives an attempt at meeting your needs but it is so weak an attempt it falls short. Therefore your needs and your expectations are over the top and too much.

Defensiveness, he doesn't acknowledge your needs, but defends his needs.

This is not a workable problem until he ends the behavior above.

I'm sorry CW. I know this hurts. Now is the time to figure out why you feel in love with a man who showed such blatant disregard to your needs. What is it about you that you can so easily subjugate your needs as unimportant?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That is the biggest issue. How am I suppose to make a reasonable argument if he never has anything to reply with except "your being crazy" or "your making an issue out of nothing."

I feel like it is just me constantly nagging him, and him just shrugging it off. How can we ever improve if he doesn't see a problem!?

I've always put others before me. I have a hard time saying no to friends and family. I easily take the blame for others. I've always cared about others happiness above my own. It's my personality.

I get taken advantage of at work, by my mother, by my husband. 

I'm just sick of it all. 

The irony is that he is often telling me I need to stand up for myself against my mother and boss. But yet, he doesn't see that I need to stand up against him too.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think I will have sex with him tonight. I'll lay there like a dead fish, then after I get mine (if I get mine) I'll just instantly "fall asleep" and be too tired to finish him. If it's okay for me, it's okay for him... right?


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That is the biggest issue. How am I suppose to make a reasonable argument if he never has anything to reply with except "your being crazy" or "your making an issue out of nothing."
> 
> I feel like it is just me constantly nagging him, and him just shrugging it off. How can we ever improve if he doesn't see a problem!?
> 
> I've always put others before me. I have a hard time saying no to friends and family. I easily take the blame for others. I've always cared about others happiness above my own. It's my personality.
> 
> I get taken advantage of at work, by my mother, by my husband.
> 
> I'm just sick of it all.
> 
> The irony is that he is often telling me I need to stand up for myself against my mother and boss. But yet, he doesn't see that I need to stand up against him too.


Well it sounds like you put in enough time in life being selfless and putting others ahead of yourself, where you could stand to spend several selfish years in which you reclaim yourself and work on goals that are important to you.

When your that selfish you have to be as selfish as they are to you, don't really do anything that lets them use your time, energy or money. That's what they do to you, the figure your good for it...


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think I will have sex with him tonight. I'll lay there like a dead fish, then after I get mine (if I get mine) I'll just instantly "fall asleep" and be too tired to finish him. If it's okay for me, it's okay for him... right?


No. You'd be playing the game at which your H is the master and you the novice.

It's all or nothing. 

Draw the line in concrete, not sand.


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, you should read no more mr. Nice guy but switch the gender. You want to be cared for but you are hoping that the more you care for him he would reciprocate. He is not made like that, so he wonders why you are making a big deal. If you continue to have sex with him it will undermine all of the work you did thus far. It will set back to zero, you don't want that.

Listen to Anon and do the 180, continue it until he gets it. Even if he promises to improve, don't give in. This will be difficult but you need to do this not just for the sex but for your self respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> *No. You'd be playing the game at which your H is the master and you the novice.*
> 
> It's all or nothing.
> 
> Draw the line in concrete, not sand.


And you will lose.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ugh. I'm dying here.

Withholding sex certainly hurts me more than it hurts him.

But I will try to listen to all the wise words. It's just so. hard.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious...I have mentioned several times that you need assertiveness skills.

Have you at least looked into what that means? Read a book about it? You really could make a lot more change in your marriage if you learned to be assertive.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious...I have mentioned several times that you need assertiveness skills.
> 
> Have you at least looked into what that means? Read a book about it? You really could make a lot more change in your marriage if you learned to be assertive.


I can't afford to buy any books on it right now. But I have read a couple articles.

It sounds like exactly what I need. But I've read and read, and while it sounds like a good idea. Reading and actually doing something are two different things.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes, take a look around, you'll find some good resources. The point is, the way you are doing things is passive, not assertive, and it isn't going to work. Learn to be assertive and see how things can change, I promise, they will.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

...I'm not saying it would all get magically better...but you would see a change.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Surprisingly I am a lot more assertive than I used to be. I am a secretary, so I deal with a lot of people and phone calls.

Over the years I have gotten better at being assertive. And I AM assertive around strangers. But I am passive around people I like, and people whose feelings I care about.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> ...I'm not saying it would all get magically better...but you would see a change.


And regain your self confidence, and self respect


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thank you for reminding me ways I can work on me. 

I will continue to read about assertiveness, and I will be more assertive when I talk to my husband. Hopefully I will get to try that out tonight.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The thing is, being passive, when it comes to communication in relationships, is sometimes the same as being dishonest.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think I will have sex with him tonight. I'll lay there like a dead fish, then after I get mine (if I get mine) I'll just instantly "fall asleep" and be too tired to finish him. If it's okay for me, it's okay for him... right?


Please don't. That is the passive aggressive game he is playing. He has much more experience and will win.

I have not read all of your thread but enough to think you have been pretty kind too him about this. So perhaps change things up. Tell him you don't want sex because you don't like his version. You feel worse after it occurs, so you are not interested. The walk away.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Odd...

I was just cleaning off my bosses desk and he had a book that needed put away called, "Speaking the truth in love: How to be an assertive Christian."

I think I'll take it home with me, and do some reading.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good, no sex, just read!!

Try borrowing books from the library too. Personally, books are far better than articles in mags.

Good luck tonight. Remember there is a lot of people out her behind you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Can't borrow from the library sadly. It costs $45 for a membership, and it is just not worth it because I live in a small town, and the books there are limited, and outdated. 

I forgot my work has an entire library full of books on personality traits and skills. I bet I can find a half a dozen books on assertiveness! I don't know why I didn't think of this before. lol.

My boss has a Ph.D in counseling. And he has his own giant private collection of books that I'm welcome to anytime. 

I've read the first chapter in the book so far, and it looks like exactly what I need. 

I love to read, and it will help keep me busy tonight.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Way to go. You found the resources yourself. Bummer about the library - mine is free and if the library does not have the book I want they can borrow it from another library. Guess I should be really thankful for my library system.

But go and read .. and ward off sex ... you can do it!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If you get tempted to give in tonight, think of how angry Anon is going to be at you, she will probably blow a fuse, lol.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> If you get tempted to give in tonight, think of how angry Anon is going to be at you, she will probably blow a fuse, lol.


If I give in tonight, I'll probably be too embarrassed to tell.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> If I give in tonight, I'll probably be too embarrassed to tell.


You won't give in - you can do this TCW - YOU CAN!!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> You won't give in - you can do this TCW - YOU CAN!!!


Well my mind says I can do it! But a little region down south is always interrupting my best, well laid plans.


----------



## Thunder7

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Like I said before, someone can only be as passive-aggressive as you allow them to be. Stay strong.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't see if happening either.
> 
> I honestly don't think he has it in him, to please me, and really put an effort in, for me to recover from all the damage that he has done. That makes me sad.
> 
> It also makes me sad that when I try to bring it up, or tell him how unhappy I am with our sex life he doesn't see a single thing wrong, and he thinks I'm just being a rebel rouser.


Emotional maturity = the ability to listen to what your partner says, and attempt to see it from their side.

To put aside how one sees it, your opinion, your view...and consider how your partner feels about your actions.

Then adjust your actions accordingly.

Dismissing how your partner feels about your actions because you don't agree with how they interpreted it... is not productive.

By talking to him, it is meant to give him the opportunity to receive feedback from you about his actions.

If he is not interested in taking the opportunity to correct actions that caused you HURT or PAIN, then he is not emotionally mature \ self aware.

That is not the same as "he doesn't care". He probably cares about you very much.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



deejov said:


> Emotional maturity = the ability to listen to what your partner says, and attempt to see it from their side.
> 
> To put aside how one sees it, your opinion, your view...and consider how your partner feels about your actions.
> 
> Then adjust your actions accordingly.
> 
> Dismissing how your partner feels about your actions because you don't agree with how they interpreted it... is not productive.
> 
> *By talking to him, it is meant to give him the opportunity to receive feedback from you about his actions.*


So how many times does she need to do this^^^ with the following result:



> *If he is not interested in taking the opportunity to correct actions that caused you HURT or PAIN, then he is not emotionally mature \ self aware*.
> 
> That is not the same as "he doesn't care". He probably cares about you very much.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Not saying she should do this again.
Just pointing out that when you do "talk" and nothing changes.... listen to what that means. 

He's not self aware enough to correct his actions.
That sucks. And doesn't change overnight. 

But it helps to feel better about it, and not take it so personally.
It's not how or what you say. It's not how you look.
It's not you. It's him.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



deejov said:


> Not saying she should do this again.
> Just pointing out that when you do "talk" and nothing changes.... listen to what that means.
> 
> *He's not self aware enough to correct his actions.*That sucks. And doesn't change overnight.
> 
> But it helps to feel better about it, and not take it so personally.
> It's not how or what you say. It's not how you look.
> It's not you. It's him.


And of course not being self aware does not give him a free pass for his behaviour. It just indicates that she is likely not going to get her needs met any time soon until he becomes aware. And that awareness can only come from inside him, and as long as he feels everything is fine in his marriage, and why wouldn't he, he will have no reason to even attempt to become aware.

The thing is, he is a grown adult without any cognative issues that we are aware of, and she has made it quite clear many times that she is not happy. She has laid out exactly what she needs, and he chooses not to give her what she needs. Yes, I said he CHOOSES not to give her what she needs, instead he gives her excuses. She doesn't need any more of those.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I went through a very similar situation. 
No free passes. 
I was trying to be a bit more gentle in saying "it ain't going to get any better, if at all". 
I certainly didn't want to hear any of that.... because I dearly loved my ex. I was SURE there was a way to fix it. Somehow. 

I feel your pain, Curious. I hope your story ends better than mine did. I do hope that a 180 \ detaching a bit will wake him up, and make a difference.
It will help YOU, which is the most important thing. 
There comes a time when you just want the PAIN to stop.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well my mind says I can do it! But a little region down south is always interrupting my best, well laid plans.


This is a safe place where we can admit things we wish we didn't have to. I hope you hold fast, but if you don't, I won't give you a hard time you need to tell the truth here.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I have good news and bad news....

The good news is, I didn't give in! You should be proud Anon. I told him no, and I was assertive that I would not be having sex with him last night. Yay me.

Now the bad news. I did a stupid thing last night. I was a coward. I did not feel like talking to him. 

After I rejected him he sat me down and said he knew something was up. He pleaded with me to tell him, because he says he can't fix things if he doesn't know what is bothering me. Which is true.

I don't know why. But I would not tell him. I couldn't find my words, and I was too afraid if I started talking I'd break down and cry, and then I can't think clearly. 

So I kept telling him I didn't want to talk about it. This made him pretty upset, because he said I haven't been myself lately (no duh) and it has been bothering him for days. 

I know it is horrible of me but a little voice inside my head was a little smug that I was making him squirm a little, and that it had been bothering him. 

After a while he gave up trying to talk to me, then he went into his usual pout and did his best not to talk to me or even acknowledge me. We had plans to do fun stuff last night (not sexual things) but he didn't want to do any of it. We spent most of the evening ignoring one another in different rooms, until it was late and I made him get off the couch and come to bed.

I feel bad now that I didn't get it all out in the open. But I am stubborn, and I hate confrontation. Besides the fact that we've had this same conversation over and over, and I feel like it's just a waste of air to bring it up again. Sigh. Why do I have to be so difficult. 

I will try again tonight. But I don't even know how to begin. There is so many things bothering me, but I'm bad at words.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Try writing it out, just organize your thoughts on a piece of paper today. Start with, "I'm ready to talk about last night. You HAVE to hear me this time, and you HAVE to believe that this is important to me and to our marriage....."

I don't get him at all. A year ago I would have killed for a woman like you. I'm lucky, I found one and didn't have to kill anyone!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I have good news and bad news....
> 
> The good news is, I didn't give in! You should be proud Anon. I told him no, and I was assertive that I would not be having sex with him last night. Yay me.
> 
> Now the bad news. I did a stupid thing last night. I was a coward. I did not feel like talking to him.
> 
> After I rejected him he sat me down and said he knew something was up. He pleaded with me to tell him, because he says he can't fix things if he doesn't know what is bothering me. Which is true.
> 
> I don't know why. But I would not tell him. I couldn't find my words, and I was too afraid if I started talking I'd break down and cry, and then I can't think clearly.
> 
> So I kept telling him I didn't want to talk about it. This made him pretty upset, because he said I haven't been myself lately (no duh) and it has been bothering him for days.
> 
> I know it is horrible of me but a little voice inside my head was a little smug that I was making him squirm a little, and that it had been bothering him.
> 
> After a while he gave up trying to talk to me, then he went into his usual pout and did his best not to talk to me or even acknowledge me. We had plans to do fun stuff last night (not sexual things) but he didn't want to do any of it. We spent most of the evening ignoring one another in different rooms, until it was late and I made him get off the couch and come to bed.
> 
> I feel bad now that I didn't get it all out in the open. But I am stubborn, and I hate confrontation. Besides the fact that we've had this same conversation over and over, and I feel like it's just a waste of air to bring it up again. Sigh. Why do I have to be so difficult.
> 
> I will try again tonight. But I don't even know how to begin. There is so many things bothering me, but I'm bad at words.


Write down what you want to say Curious - then give him the letter. Sometimes it's easier to put your thoughts down on paper, than talk face-to-face. Perhaps after your husband reads your letter, you can this discuss it together.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You had his attention last night. I wish you could have cashed in on that. But hopefully, you still do. If he's not to busy pouting and if he cares about you at all he will listen. Let him know in no uncertain terms that it needs to change for good.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have written out a letter before. But I ended up talking about instead of giving it to him. I just feel so stupid giving him a letter. 

I wish I was more brave.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have written out a letter before. But I ended up talking about instead of giving it to him. I just feel so stupid giving him a letter.
> 
> I wish I was more brave.


I'll tell you a secret, but you can't tell anyone else on the forum...M'kay?

I am a huge coward! Verbally, I get tongue tied. I get side tracked as I look at his face, generally impassive or totally perplexed. The feedback I get from verbal conversations alters my message and I get turned around and confused. In written form, I can clearly and concisely express myself.

I have written him countless email and letter to express myself and even those don't always get a reply or sometimes even an acknowledgement. Which makes it so very hard for someone like me to continue to be open.

Write the letter, print it out and hand it to him, then sit and watch him read it. Don't respond to anything until he has finished the letter. Don't leave the room until you two have discussed what was in the letter.

Well done for hanging tough and don't worry about not opening up last night. You have had enough of not being heard when you do speak up. And this is something else you should add to your letter.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks Anon!

I'd really like some help with the letter. I've written most of it, but I don't know if it is going to get my message across in the right way.

Would be be inappropriate to post it here, and you guys can help me fix things? I hate sharing such personal information, but lets face it, you guys know pretty much everything anyway.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> After I rejected him he sat me down and said he knew something was up. He pleaded with me to tell him, because *he says he can't fix things if he doesn't know what is bothering me*. Which is true.


Do you believe him when he says this? Why or why not?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's very difficult to convey our feelings, especially when they reflect poorly on a person we love.

Sometimes I feel like the words are literally stuck in my throat and I cannot get them out.

It's difficult to keep trying. It's when we give up trying that the failure occurs, not before then. 

Just know you aren't alone!


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I have good news and bad news....
> 
> The good news is, I didn't give in! You should be proud Anon. I told him no, and I was assertive that I would not be having sex with him last night. Yay me.
> 
> Now the bad news. I did a stupid thing last night. I was a coward. I did not feel like talking to him.
> 
> After I rejected him he sat me down and said he knew something was up. He pleaded with me to tell him, because he says he can't fix things if he doesn't know what is bothering me. Which is true.
> 
> I don't know why. But I would not tell him. I couldn't find my words, and I was too afraid if I started talking I'd break down and cry, and then I can't think clearly.
> 
> So I kept telling him I didn't want to talk about it. This made him pretty upset, because he said I haven't been myself lately (no duh) and it has been bothering him for days.
> 
> I know it is horrible of me but a little voice inside my head was a little smug that I was making him squirm a little, and that it had been bothering him.
> 
> *After a while he gave up trying to talk to me, then he went into his usual pout and did his best not to talk to me or even acknowledge me. We had plans to do fun stuff last night (not sexual things) but he didn't want to do any of it. We spent most of the evening ignoring one another in different rooms, until it was late and I made him get off the couch and come to bed.*
> 
> I feel bad now that I didn't get it all out in the open. But I am stubborn, and I hate confrontation. Besides the fact that we've had this same conversation over and over, and I feel like it's just a waste of air to bring it up again. Sigh. Why do I have to be so difficult.
> 
> I will try again tonight. But I don't even know how to begin. There is so many things bothering me, but I'm bad at words.


So you didn't open up...not a biggie since you likely wouldn't have had anything new to say that hadn't been said a thousand times before.

His reaction is very telling. THings did not go in the way he thought they should. They went the way you set, and he punished you for it. He got pouty, didn't want anything to do with you because he didn't get his way, so this issue goes beyond just sex...it seems to be a pervasive dynamic through other parts of your relationship as well.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> It's very difficult to convey our feelings, especially when they reflect poorly on a person we love.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like the words are literally stuck in my throat and I cannot get them out.
> 
> It's difficult to keep trying. It's when we give up trying that the failure occurs, not before then.
> 
> Just know you aren't alone!


Thanks MissScarlet! That's exactly how it is for me.

I can't put all the blame on him, if I don't tell him what he needs to change. It's just telling him that is the hard part.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Do you believe him when he says this? Why or why not?


I do and I don't.

I think he should know by now we my issues are.

But at the same time, to him our life is perfect. So if something is bothering me, it is my responsibility to tell him what needs to change. He isn't a mind reader. 

I just wish he would remember all our past conversations...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> So you didn't open up...not a biggie since you likely wouldn't have had anything new to say that hadn't been said a thousand times before.
> 
> His reaction is very telling. THings did not go in the way he thought they should. They went the way you set, and he punished you for it. He got pouty, didn't want anything to do with you because he didn't get his way, so this issue goes beyond just sex...it seems to be a pervasive dynamic through other parts of your relationship as well.


He does pout if I tell him no.

But honestly we don't fight about anything except for sex. So I've never had him act this way about anything else.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*Letter Part 1*

I’m sorry I was so stubborn last night. I wanted to talk to you but I couldn’t find the right words, so I decided to put it in a letter. I love you very much, and I’m sorry I have been so distant recently. I am bad at sharing my feelings, so I bottle them all up inside and it slowly builds and builds until it affects my entire mood. It is wrong of me, and I know I should just tell you when something bothers me. 

Often when I try to tell you I don’t like something or something is bothering me you just laugh it off or don’t take me seriously. It deeply bothers me, because I think you don’t care about my feelings at all.

I know you think our sex life is great, but I do not. A lot of times I am left feeling disappointed and frustrated. Part of the reason, is because I don’t speak up, and that is my fault. The reason I am upset is because I don’t feel like my needs are being met, and often times I feel like you don’t care. 

............................................................


Here are my first 3 paragraphs. Ideas? Suggestions?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I do and I don't.
> 
> I think he should know by now we my issues are.
> 
> But at the same time, to him our life is perfect. So if something is bothering me, it is my responsibility to tell him what needs to change. He isn't a mind reader.
> 
> I just wish he would remember all our past conversations...


I think this has moved past a sex issue and is now into a trust issue for you. Because I think you doubt that he wants to fix it for the reasons above.

So consider leading with that. Repeat his comment, then tell him that because nothing has changed despite past talks, you don't believe him when he says this. Then sit back and really listen. Don't react or engage other than to clarify a point he is making or repeat that while you wish it was not so, the fact that there has been no change now causes you to doubt that he wants to change things.

Once he is done, thank him for sharing his views and tell him you now need to think about what he said.

By the way, when he pouts, don't engage. That means telling him good night and heading to bed yourself. Don't drag him up there. In this way, you need to treat him like a toddler and don't reward the bad behavior.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He does pout if I tell him no.
> 
> But honestly we don't fight about anything except for sex. *So I've never had him act this way about anything else*.


How often does he not get his way when there is a difference of opinion? How much compromising does he do compared to you? You don't fight much...is that because you pretty much give in before it gets that far?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> How often does he not get his way when there is a difference of opinion? How much compromising does he do compared to you? You don't fight much...is that because you pretty much give in before it gets that far?


Hmm I'm not sure. We don't really disagree on much else.

Although I'd have to say I "win" most of the time. I'm a very stubborn and outspoken person (outside of sex) so if I want to buy something, or pick the color of the living room, or get a new animal. He can voice his opinion, but I'd say I'm the decision maker. 

He is more laid back, whatever you want kind of attitude.

I also handle most of the money, hire workers for our house, etc...

I'm the step up and get er done kind of girl.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*Letter Part 2*

It is not just sex. I want to be intimate with you in other ways. Like holding hands, or flirting. A lot of times we go days without even kissing. The reason I constantly ask for sex is because it makes me feel close to you. If we were more intimate in non-sexual ways I would be more satisfied. I feel like I always have to take the initiative. The only time you come to me and want to make out, or act flirty is when you want something, like a blow job. 

It is not all about the orgasm, but they are important to me too. It bothers me that when you think about sex, it is always only about you. You only want to have sex, when you’re horny. You say you care about my needs, but often times I feel like your actions don’t show it. I have only had 2 orgasms in the past month. Yet during my cranky time you came to me and begged for a blow job. Did you ever stop to think that maybe I was horny too? You whined about how it had been days since you had something and how you were dying, but what about the fact that it had been over a week for me? For some reason since I’m a girl you have this crazy notion that it’s not the same for me. But it is. 

I have never and would never make you give me an orgasm and then not return the favor. I love to make you happy. Like on Sunday. You begged and begged for sex, even though I obviously wasn’t in the mood and I told you that. You talked me into it, and then we had a little “accident.” Which is fine, that didn’t bother me. What did bother me was that afterwards I just wasn’t important. You said you wanted me to have a good time, but then you didn’t put in any effort. Yes you rubbed, but there was no kissing, no flirting, and it was awkward sitting there in silence. After a couple minutes you dozed off repeatedly, and this isn’t the first time that has happened. How would you feel if I fell asleep while I was giving you a blow job? 

..........................................................

I need help! Help me organize my thoughts.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I think this has moved past a sex issue and is now into a trust issue for you. Because I think you doubt that he wants to fix it for the reasons above.
> 
> So consider leading with that. Repeat his comment, then tell him that because nothing has changed despite past talks, you don't believe him when he says this. Then sit back and really listen. Don't react or engage other than to clarify a point he is making or repeat that while you wish it was not so, the fact that there has been no change now causes you to doubt that he wants to change things.
> 
> Once he is done, thank him for sharing his views and tell him you now need to think about what he said.
> 
> By the way, when he pouts, don't engage. That means telling him good night and heading to bed yourself. Don't drag him up there. In this way, you need to treat him like a toddler and don't reward the bad behavior.



OMG this!!! So much this I think I just O'd....

Follow this CW!!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> OMG this!!! So much this I think I just O'd....
> 
> Follow this CW!!!


Okay dokey. I changed my 2nd paragraph as follows:

_I have a hard time sharing with you because in the past when I tried to tell you I don’t like something or something is bothering me you just laugh it off or don’t take me seriously. It deeply troubles me, because I think you don’t care about my feelings at all. Things might change for a while, but then it goes right back to where we started. So I have a hard time believing you really want to know what is bothering me, and want work on it. _


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What you've got so far is very good. Incorporate TAG's advice to the details you've already written.

I think TAG's advice is so important because you H has a habit of minimizing you then changing the subject. Following his advice, the subject becomes what it should be in it's most essential form. You no longer trust that he wants to meet your needs so you see no reason to continue stating them. ....then silence..... Oooh man I still get chills.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*Letter Part 3*

Girls are different than guys. My enjoyment is more mental than physical. It is hard for me to get there when we are just sitting there waiting for me to finish. I need to know that you’re having fun too, otherwise I just feel like I’m a bother. I hate how our sex is so goal oriented, and routine. We kiss for a couple minutes, rub me until I’m done, then thrust until you’re done. It’s like we are trying to hurry up and get it over with, and that the orgasm is the only important part. We never slow it down and take our time, and we’ve never tried to get me to have more than one orgasm. 

It also bothers me that you constantly want and ask for blow jobs, but you have never given me one. I love giving them to you, but I feel like you are taking advantage of me. It has gotten to the point where I think in my head that I am gross or disgusting and that is why you won’t do it. That is why I have stopped giving them to you. It is unfair of you to insist on them, and you won’t reciprocate, especially when I am horny too. I have been more than generous giving you whatever you wanted when you’re horny, but I can’t do it anymore. It makes me resent you, when time after time you ask me to do something for you, but you won’t return the same favor if I would ask. 

.....................................

It's starting to get a little stale. Ideas of how to reword it?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*Letter Part 4*

I’m sorry this is so long. To sum it up, I want more flirting and touching without sex. My orgasm is just as important as yours. I don’t like how routine and mechanical our sex life is. I won’t be giving anymore blow jobs or unreciprocated quickies until I can trust that you will give back as well. 

........................................................

Last but not least I need a closing. The one above stinks. I somehow want to put all my main points at the end though. Because I was them to STICK. I think he will loose information in the giant letter. So I want to make sure that he will have no excuse to not know what I want.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Although I'd have to say I "win" most of the time. I'm a very stubborn and outspoken person (outside of sex) so if I want to buy something, or pick the color of the living room, or get a new animal. He can voice his opinion, but I'd say I'm the decision maker.
> 
> I also handle most of the money, hire workers for our house, etc...
> 
> I'm the step up and get er done kind of girl.



Do you feel that this shifts the balance of power in the relationship towards you and his behavior is simply a "rebalancing act"??


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> Do you feel that this shifts the balance of power in the relationship towards you and his behavior is simply a "rebalancing act"??


I doubt it. I think he could care less about power. He is pretty happy go lucky about life. He has the "everything is good and will work out on it's own" idea. 

That is why he is so hard to change about sex. Everything is "good" to him. 

It's a nice motto to have in a way, but it is very frustrating to our sex life.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I like everything you have written!

If he feels marginalized about other aspects in your marriage, he needs to speak up, just as you have been doing all this time!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I like everything you have written!
> 
> If he feels marginalized about other aspects in your marriage, he needs to speak up, just as you have been doing all this time!


Thanks. Although I do think at least the conclusion needs some work. 

I don't think he has any problem at all with our marriage. He doesn't mind me being the "boss." He knows I like to take charge, and that I'm bossy. He teases me about it sometimes, but it doesn't seem to bother him the least.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks. Although I do think at least the conclusion needs some work.
> 
> I don't think he has any problem at all with our marriage. He doesn't mind me being the "boss." He knows I like to take charge, and that I'm bossy. He teases me about it sometimes, but it doesn't seem to bother him the least.


It may or may not. He is passive and passive aggressive. He shares a lot of traits with my H. The trouble is that these men, and women too but were talking about husbands here, do get upset they just don't fully recognize it. The typical nice guy doesn't mean he is actually a kind hearted man. It means he is so concerned that he BE nice that he squashes his own feelings to everything.

But this is a whole OTHER subject. Right now focus on your needs and the trust in your marriage.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Take out the "I am sorry for the long letter" part. Honestly, are you sorry that it takes him five minutes to read how you feel?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Paragraph #3

Be blunt: Tell him you are "unhappy" with you sex life.

On the last Paragraph:

List exactly what you want in a list so you guys can talk about each one of the items on the list and come to some agreement on them.

To sum it up I want the following:

1) more flirting and touching and kissing without sex.
2) attention given to my orgasm - and not just rubbing to get it over with.

...

You can fill in more. But the letter is good and should get you guys talking. With any luck he will read between the lines and figure out that all this, although painful, is very important to you and your marriage.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks. Although I do think at least the conclusion needs some work.
> 
> I don't think he has any problem at all with our marriage. He doesn't mind me being the "boss." He knows I like to take charge, and that I'm bossy. He teases me about it sometimes, but it doesn't seem to bother him the least.


I like what you have written. It really seems to express what you are feeling.

Having said that, it is too long. I have no confidence, based on your posts, that he will actively read the whole thing. He may read the words, but the only circumstance where he won't zone out is if he has gotten defensive and is thinking of arguments to rebut your point.

So shorten to a couple of quick, pointed paragraphs.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Paragraph #3
> 
> Be blunt: Tell him you are "unhappy" with you sex life.
> 
> On the last Paragraph:
> 
> List exactly what you want in a list so you guys can talk about each one of the items on the list and come to some agreement on them.
> 
> To sum it up I want the following:
> 
> 1) more flirting and touching and kissing without sex.
> 2) attention given to my orgasm - and not just rubbing to get it over with.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> You can fill in more. But the letter is good and should get you guys talking. With any luck he will read between the lines and figure out that all this, although painful, is very important to you and your marriage.



I made the changes as you suggested. Thanks!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I like what you have written. It really seems to express what you are feeling.
> 
> Having said that, it is too long. I have no confidence, based on your posts, that he will actively read the whole thing. He may read the words, but the only circumstance where he won't zone out is if he has gotten defensive and is thinking of arguments to rebut your point.
> 
> So shorten to a couple of quick, pointed paragraphs.


I agree. Which is why I put a summary at the end. Although I will surely try to cut it down some.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We have a problem now though.

I wanted to hold myself accountable, and make sure I don't chicken out. So I told him that I have a letter detailing why I am upset that I am going to give to him tonight.

He does NOT want to read the letter. He thinks we should just talk about the issues.

But I have such trouble remembering everything, and putting the correct words together.

Should I just try to memorize everything and talk about it? Or should I give him the letter as planned.

We will talk after he reads it of course, but I really like the letter because it gets my feelings out without forgetting stuff, and it lets me think about everything I tell him.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Tell him, We WILL talk about it, AFTER you read the letter. Jeez, how many ways can he try to get out of doing what you need?


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

People use cue cards for things like speeches. Why not give him the full letter and keep a condensed version for yourself?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Tell him, We WILL talk about it, AFTER you read the letter. Jeez, how many ways can he try to get out of doing what you need?


Amen Amen

That's exactly what I told him, but he just said, "we'll see."

Nope I'm being assertive. He is going to read that dang letter!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Amen Amen
> 
> That's exactly what I told him, but he just said, "we'll see."


And this is the problem in a nutshell. What you want is not a concern to him. I would note that fact when you hand him the letter. You want him to do something, he ignores it. You want sex, he ignores it. You want him to read a letter, he ignores it. 



> Nope I'm being assertive. He is going to read that dang letter!


Sorry, but he likely won't (at least not now). I hope he gets there, but don't expect miracles.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> And this is the problem in a nutshell. What you want is not a concern to him. I would note that fact when you hand him the letter. You want him to do something, he ignores it. You want sex, he ignores it. You want him to read a letter, he ignores it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but he likely won't (at least not now). I hope he gets there, but don't expect miracles.


He WILL read the letter, because I won't be discussing anything with him until he does. 

That same "we'll see" response is the only thing I ever get out of him! Not a real answer. Just a "sure, whatever you say."

He just says what I want to hear so I'll get off his case, but his actions never match! It drives me nuts.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He doesn't want to read the letter because he wants to get you sidetracked and distracted in a conversation. But you know this. Don't let him get out of reading the letter. Make it clear to him that there will be no sex, no bj's or hj's until the letter is read and discussed. 

It's soooo hard for me to understand a guy like this. I understand the guy that doesn't think to buy flowers. I understand the guy who doesn't want to do dishes. But a guy that can't put some effort into pleasing his wife sexually?! It's like they're from another planet.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We have a problem now though.
> 
> I wanted to hold myself accountable, and make sure I don't chicken out. So I told him that I have a letter detailing why I am upset that I am going to give to him tonight.
> 
> *He does NOT want to read the letter. He thinks we should just talk about the issues*.
> 
> But I have such trouble remembering everything, and putting the correct words together.
> 
> Should I just try to memorize everything and talk about it? Or should I give him the letter as planned.
> 
> We will talk after he reads it of course, but I really like the letter because it gets my feelings out without forgetting stuff, and it lets me think about everything I tell him.


Of course he doesn't want to read it. That would make him accountable for knowing what was said. He would not be able to twist things around back around on you, blamshift, crazymake. If it is there in black and white, he can't make any more excuses.

He needs to read the letter. If he starts his passive agressive behavior, then you really need to rethink your positions about just how much more work you are going to put into this marriage.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Of course he doesn't want to read it. That would make him accountable for knowing what was said. He would not be able to twist things around back around on you, blamshift, crazymake. If it is there in black and white, he can't make any more excuses.
> 
> He needs to read the letter. If he starts his passive agressive behavior, then you really need to rethink your positions about just how much more work you are going to put into this marriage.


I agree. I want him to read the letter so it it right there in front of him.

That way things don't get twisted, or misinterpreted. I will have proof that I told him what the issues are so later on he won't go, "But honey I didn't know that bothered you..." 

This is happening. He will read the letter or the 180 will continue.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I asked him if we were going to do the fun things tonight that we were supposed to do yesterday.

He said, "if you have sex with me."



He knows I'm upset, but yet he has seemingly forgotten all about yesterday already. 

When I told him not until our issues are resolved, he brought up the whole, we haven't had sex in weeks thing.

Now who's fault was that?... Sigh.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree. I want him to read the letter so it it right there in front of him.
> 
> That way things don't get twisted, or misinterpreted. I will have proof that I told him what the issues are so later on he won't go, "But honey I didn't know that bothered you..."
> 
> *This is happening. He will read the letter or the 180 will continue*.


This is happening. He will read the letter *and* the 180 will continue *until I'm satisfied that he finally gets it and is actively working on fixing the issues*

There...fixed it for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> This is happening. He will read the letter *and* the 180 will continue *until I'm satisfied that he finally gets it and is actively working on fixing the issues*
> 
> There...fixed it for you.


Thanks


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Dang. I was really hoping to have sex tonight. But he sure is making a hard case against himself.:banghead:


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well done CW. You can do this!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Stick to the plan, it is a good plan. Letter then talk. Stick to the plan.
(And I don't think the letter is too long, how long has this been going on?).


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You could also read the letter out loud to him. That way you say what you meant to say and he has to hear the whole thing. 

The way it's probably going to go, though, is that there will be an apology and then move into the reconciliation phase (which will very likely include sex.) 

He will likely back up his apology with action - but it won't likely be the remedy to the solution in time. 

I imagine it will start out awkward and he'll say of course he'll change then you will have sex. You will likely feel good about the sex. But then the challenge comes of holding him to your standards over time, because true change is not that easy. 

Like anything else in life, it's the long haul that proves someone's word or not. 

Your main points:
1) You do not feel heard when you voice your needs to him.
2) You do not feel that your orgasm holds the priority to him that it deserves.
3) You need more non-sexual touching and affection overall. 
4) Over time if these needs are not met it will likely end your marriage. Your self-esteem is already suffering and it's only been a year into this sexual relationship. You will not continue to stand by for a lifetime of feeling unimportant and not a priority to him.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Very well stated MissScarlett.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How did it go Curious?


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I would not read the letter out loud, give it to him and tell him to write back so that he can't turn it into a he said/she said and it does not turn into a muddled conversation where you lose the points in responding to particulars.

Good letter, I do not think it is too long (at least if it is he has an extremely short attention span)

I like the summation at the end but would end with something like:

I love you very much and I imagine our marriage always growing stronger and us growing old together. I understand that no one is perfect including me. etc...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> You could also read the letter out loud to him. That way you say what you meant to say and he has to hear the whole thing.
> 
> The way it's probably going to go, though, is that there will be an apology and then move into the reconciliation phase (which will very likely include sex.)
> 
> He will likely back up his apology with action - but it won't likely be the remedy to the solution in time.
> 
> I imagine it will start out awkward and he'll say of course he'll change then you will have sex. You will likely feel good about the sex. But then the challenge comes of holding him to your standards over time, because true change is not that easy.
> 
> Like anything else in life, it's the long haul that proves someone's word or not.
> 
> Your main points:
> 1) You do not feel heard when you voice your needs to him.
> 2) You do not feel that your orgasm holds the priority to him that it deserves.
> 3) You need more non-sexual touching and affection overall.
> 4) Over time if these needs are not met it will likely end your marriage. Your self-esteem is already suffering and it's only been a year into this sexual relationship. You will not continue to stand by for a lifetime of feeling unimportant and not a priority to him.



You know me very well. 

It went down exactly like this. Big post coming up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Alright. So I got home from work and we ate dinner with small talk. Then we sat down in bed, and I gave him the letter. 

He read it, and we went through it together. He shared his opinions, and I shared mine.

The biggest thing that he fought was that our sex life is routine. He feels like I am the one who just lays there, and that it is my fault as much as his. While I don't completely agree with this, we both agreed that we will try harder to be more sincere and keep it interesting. 

He also argued about me not getting oral. He said he tries, and that he isn't sure how to get me there with that. So I handed him "she comes first" and told him that I don't mind if we need to practice.

He didn't mention anything about not making my orgasm a priority. I figure that he didn't have an argument because he knew I was right. 

Overall it cleared the air and I feel much better. I also feel more assertive that I won't let my needs get put on the back burner again. Now he knows what I expect, and I intend to keep it up.

We only had about 45 minutes to discuss then we had to go somewhere for a couple hours. It gave us a nice break and then when we got home, we did have sex. 

It was great actually. Probably in our top 10. We both did things we haven't done before, and we tried a couple new positions. He also gave me oral. It was only a couple minutes still, but he seems enthusiastic about it. 

He sucked on my fingers, and oh my gosh it was so hot. I never understood why people liked it, but I couldn't get enough. I highly recommend it.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,

I am so glad you feel better. Congratulations on a job well done.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks! I know we have a long way to go, and I'm sure we will back track again. But today is a good day, and I'm going to enjoy it as long as possible.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He read it, and we went through it together. He shared his opinions, and I shared mine.


Congratulations. I am very glad I was wrong about him reading it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Congratulations. I am very glad I was wrong about him reading it.


That is why I am so bad at being assertive, or upset with him for too long.

If I confront him, he is always genuinely sorry, and wants to work on the issues. 

He just has a hard time following up with actions....

It would be different if he got mean, or argued, or got upset. Then I could "justify" being upset, but it's hard for me to always feel like I am the one who is nagging and causing a problem is our otherwise happy marriage.

It surely makes things difficult.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He just has a hard time following up with actions....


What about ending up a discussion with a list of action items for him for the next two weeks? I always end meetings this way so everyone (including me) is clear on what they are doing.

So in your case, his items are to initiate three times in the next two weeks. Two of those times he has to try a different technique that your two tried in the past (so one one night and another the other night). The third time is his choice, but that is the last action item.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Okay dokey. I changed my 2nd paragraph as follows:
> 
> _I have a hard time sharing with you because in the past when I tried to tell you I don’t like something or something is bothering me you just laugh it off or don’t take me seriously. It deeply troubles me, because I think you don’t care about my feelings at all. Things might change for a while, but then it goes right back to where we started. So I have a hard time believing you really want to know what is bothering me, and want work on it. _


 Okay, here comes some tough advice Curious 
It's not HIS fault that you have a hard time communicating. That's blameshifting. Your lack of boundaries has allowed HIM to change YOU. But... you can turn that around. 

His behavior "makes" you feel unloved, unwanted, etc.
So you think.
He dismisses it and it hurts you.

Instead of explaining yourself...again... a boundary would be:
"I'm not okay with that".
Anytime you express your FEELINGS and someone dismisis it, you have the right to say "I'm not okay with that" and repeat that YOUR feelings are yours, and not "right or wrong".
No arguing. Just the facts. He does NOT dictate how you feel, react. You do. But not until you realise this. And enforce it. 

Anything less than that, you are giving him complete control to rule how you feel.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I will finally get to see my husband this evening.

But sadly it seems I have a bladder infection. It is feeling a little better this morning, so hopefully it won't prevent us from some nookie. 

I also have either badly sprang or fractured my hand. Sigh.

I forgot to mention that the other day I gave myself a Brazilian shave to surprise him. Well it wasn't until long after sex and he saw me changing that he was like, "Hey. You shaved, I didn't even notice." *face palm*

So it's not like I don't try to be erotic, he just doesn't even notice when I do.

Now I am seriously regretting shaving it bare. I have horrible bumps everywhere and it looks disgusting. Gr. I'm much happier shaving the important bits, and leaving a short trimmed fuzz on the mound. I have no problems then.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It helps to keep down the shaving rash if you exfoliate the area first, roughly. After shaving spread coconut oil liberally on the newly shaved skin, then do not wear panties or anything tight like stretch pants. I always shave at night and just wear a nightgown to bed. If you keep up the shaving, like every third day or so, your skin will adjust and you won't get those bumps at all anymore.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> It helps to keep down the shaving rash if you exfoliate the area first, roughly. After shaving spread coconut oil liberally on the newly shaved skin, then do not wear panties or anything tight like stretch pants. I always shave at night and just wear a nightgown to bed. If you keep up the shaving, like every third day or so, your skin will adjust and you won't get those bumps at all anymore.


Nothing works on my mound. I exfoliate. I use special shaving cream just for that area, afterwards I use another special cream that is suppose to prevent the burn. But nope. It doesn't work. I have tried nearly everything. It makes me crazy.

It's not just a time thing either. In the past, I've shaved Brazilian for a couple years at a time. Even then I still had the bumps. They weren't quite as bad, but still painful and very noticeable.

I think I'm just destined to not shave bald. lol. I was when we first got married. But the frequent sex really made the irritation worse, so we agreed that I should just trim it. Part of me missed being hair free so I tried it again... Now I remember why I stopped. Ouch.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Still, you'd think he would have noticed....


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You would think....

Dang it. I just got off the phone with my mother. (Masters in Nursing)

She says my hand is broken.  My right hand no doubt, which I have to type and do everything with.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You would think....
> 
> Dang it. I just got off the phone with my mother. (Masters in Nursing)
> 
> She says my hand is broken.  My right hand no doubt, which I have to type and do everything with.


Did you fracture your hand by doing the face palm too hard after your husband didn't notice your Brazilian? J/K

Sorry to hear you are injured, but glad to see that you and your husband are making some progress. Remember, you are far from done with this. Expect your husband to get back into his old routines. When you see him starting to do this, you need to assert yourself and let him know that the old routines are not acceptable. Good Luck!


----------



## Coldie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But sadly it seems I have a bladder infection. It is feeling a little better this morning, so hopefully it won't prevent us from some nookie.
> 
> I also have either badly sprang or fractured my hand. Sigh.
> 
> I forgot to mention that the other day I gave myself a Brazilian shave to surprise him. Well it wasn't until long after sex and he saw me changing that he was like, "Hey. You shaved, I didn't even notice." *face palm*


Man that's a LOT of reasons why your LD husband and you possibly can't have sex. Also, he did notice you shaved... as you were changing.

Cup half empty huh? Sometimes I won't notice nails or shaving, but it's because I am busy enjoying my wife and the intimacy get's me high. The chemical rush, the thing that addicts me to being intimate. Then, as we get our wits back, we notice. You know, it happens. It's not a face palm moment.

The shaving bumps do not keep appearing if you shave regularly and use a sharp razor. Shave with the hair, not against it. Or, stop using a razor and use clippers so the hair never goes completely below the skin (no razor bumps). There are various ways to keep this from happening, even with sensitive skin (which I also have). However, they will always appear if you keep letting your hair grow and let the skin adjust. Your skin does adjusts. And if your skin NEVER adjusts, then you aren't doing it proper or regularly enough (in most cases). 

After reading through the first 10 pages I realized that your husband seems very normal and you are very hard to please. You want sex so bad from him but he is an hour late and that makes you too tired to want him. Therefore you are upset he was late but you prefer him being at his friends rather than clubs, but he needs to be home exactly when you want him there, otherwise you will be too tired for sex, yet he is the one with the low drive. Hmmm. That is just one example as your entire thread is filled with moments like this where you put your husband up against what seems to me, as no win situations. It feels as you like being unhappy and having things to complain about, rather than just talking to him and openly telling him what you want. 

That's my take. I'm positive you will not understand or see how I came to this conclusion, as you seem to totally deflect everything going wrong as your husbands fault, and not your own. 

Either way, good luck. I hope you figure it out.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know some men can't shave because of the bumps. I think that there is a medical term for it.


----------



## Coldie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> I know some men can't shave because of the bumps. I think that there is a medical term for it.


You can get a no shave chit in the military because of this. Very common with black military men because their hair is naturally extremely curly. Using clippers rather than razor can prevent the hair from ever being under the skin. Also, not shaving reverse of the hair. Shave with the hair. If I shave reverse of the hair direction, I will get bumps everytime. You can get a close shave shaving the hair direction, you can created rashes shaving against. Whether it be neck or crotch.

The more you shave regular and keep yourself groomed, the less these bumps occur.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Did you fracture your hand by doing the face palm too hard after your husband didn't notice your Brazilian? J/K
> 
> Sorry to hear you are injured, but glad to see that you and your husband are making some progress. Remember, you are far from done with this. Expect your husband to get back into his old routines. When you see him starting to do this, you need to assert yourself and let him know that the old routines are not acceptable. Good Luck!


This is actually the first broken bone I've ever had, except maybe a toe. I broke it doing something stupid, which I regret now. 

Thanks for the encouragement. I will continue to watch carefully, and assert myself when I need to.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Coldie said:


> You can get a no shave chit in the military because of this. Very common with black military men because their hair is naturally extremely curly. Using clippers rather than razor can prevent the hair from ever being under the skin. Also, not shaving reverse of the hair. Shave with the hair. If I shave reverse of the hair direction, I will get bumps everytime. You can get a close shave shaving the hair direction, you can created rashes shaving against. Whether it be neck or crotch.
> 
> The more you shave regular and keep yourself groomed, the less these bumps occur.


I shave at least every other day, and as I stated before I shaved for over 2 years continuously. So I think it just doesn't work for me. I don't know if I have sensitive skin or what, but nothing seems to help.


----------



## Coldie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I shave at least every other day, and as I stated before I shaved for over 2 years continuously. So I think it just doesn't work for me. I don't know if I have sensitive skin or what, but nothing seems to help.


If you shave at least every other day you just live with these bumps? I mean if shaving causes them yet you shave every other day (regularly), the bumps would never leave?

Also, how would he notice if you shave at least every other day?

I thought "noticing" you shaved would be because you had a bush like growth or at least a few weeks of growth, and then went to completely bare. What man will notice when a woman shaves every other day? I really feel like your husband is in a no win situation. If my wife shaved every other day and I was expected to notice she didn't have a day old growth of hair.... she would be extremely unhappy.

That really confuses me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Coldie said:


> Man that's a LOT of reasons why your LD husband and you possibly can't have sex. Also, he did notice you shaved... as you were changing.
> 
> *I wasn't coming up with reasons why we can't have sex? I plainly said, that we WILL be having sex tonight. I was just stating the facts that I broke my hand and have a bladder infection.*
> 
> Cup half empty huh? Sometimes I won't notice nails or shaving, but it's because I am busy enjoying my wife and the intimacy get's me high. The chemical rush, the thing that addicts me to being intimate. Then, as we get our wits back, we notice. You know, it happens. It's not a face palm moment.
> 
> *Your right. But when he asks me to be more erotic, and wear lingerie, or hints that he wants me to shave and I do. Then he doesn't even notice, It does irk me.*
> 
> 
> After reading through the first 10 pages I realized that your husband seems very normal and you are very hard to please. You want sex so bad from him but he is an hour late and that makes you too tired to want him. Therefore you are upset he was late but you prefer him being at his friends rather than clubs, but he needs to be home exactly when you want him there, otherwise you will be too tired for sex, yet he is the one with the low drive. Hmmm. That is just one example as your entire thread is filled with moments like this where you put your husband up against what seems to me, as no win situations. It feels as you like being unhappy and having things to complain about, rather than just talking to him and openly telling him what you want.
> 
> *I'm sorry, that wanting sex with my husband where is isn't falling asleep and actually tries to give me an orgasm is hard to please? Also I feel like as a grown man he spends way more than enough time with his friends. He was gone the last several days with his friends. And he is frequently spending the night places, etc... How many other adults do you know that do this? I think he should at least give me a heads up if he is going to be late, and I also think he should put me before his friends. If he wants to stay out late, maybe he could take care of my needs before he goes*.
> 
> That's my take. I'm positive you will not understand or see how I came to this conclusion, as you seem to totally deflect everything going wrong as your husbands fault, and not your own.
> 
> *Everyone is welcome to their own opinions.*
> 
> Either way, good luck. I hope you figure it out.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Coldie said:


> If you shave at least every other day you just live with these bumps? I mean if shaving causes them yet you shave every other day (regularly), the bumps would never leave?
> 
> Also, how would he notice if you shave at least every other day?
> 
> I thought "noticing" you shaved would be because you had a bush like growth or at least a few weeks of growth, and then went to completely bare. What man will notice when a woman shaves every other day? I really feel like your husband is in a no win situation. If my wife shaved every other day and I was expected to notice she didn't have a day old growth of hair.... she would be extremely unhappy.
> 
> That really confuses me.


Geez a loo. Read my past posts. :soapbox:

I keep my mound trimmed short, but with noticeable hair. I shave the more delicate areas, and my legs every other day. 

There was a big difference when I shaved it all bare.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry. Excuse my attitude. My hand is hurting, I'm hungry, and I haven't had sex for a few days or seen my husband.

I'm a little testy. lol


----------



## Coldie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Sorry. Excuse my attitude. My hand is hurting, I'm hungry, and I haven't had sex for a few days or seen my husband.
> 
> I'm a little testy. lol


Your attitude is fine here. I have read like 50 some pages, I expected it. 

In a good way. 

You are right, I have a right to my opinion. He married you not me. He should have known what you need from your relationship, and if he didn't or doesn't, you need to make sure you let him know what you expect. Even if it's daily emails of the exact things you post here daily. 

As far as the shaving thing, well, obviously I meant you would have to shave regularly the area that gets the razor rash, not the areas you shave every other day. I assume the areas you shave every other day have no rash at all. The skin does adjust, especially when shaved properly.  Sorry about your hand.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Coldie said:


> As far as the shaving thing, well, obviously I meant you would have to shave regularly the area that gets the razor rash, not the areas you shave every other day. I assume the areas you shave every other day have no rash at all. The skin does adjust, especially when shaved properly.


That is what I've stated. I have shaved BALD the entire area for over 2 years. I've only went to trimming in the past year because I was tried of dealing with the bumps.


----------



## Coldie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

... and you were complaining you had to feel the bumps you felt for an entire two years again. And you were complaining that he didn't notice until after you had sex that you shaved. Also, you have a hand that could be fractured, or sprained, but it hurts. 

Gotcha. I think that is what you stated.

Sounds like your husband really can't win. But that's my humble opinion. I really don't know how I would feel about my wife if she had a blog/post where everyday all she did was criticize me, even the little things like, "he didn't even notice I shaved until after I was getting dressed... and now I have to deal with the razor bumps!"

Dang.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Coldie said:


> ... and you were complaining you had to feel the bumps you felt for an entire two years again. And you were complaining that he didn't notice until after you had sex that you shaved. Also, you have a hand that could be fractured, or sprained, but it hurts.
> 
> Gotcha. I think that is what you stated.
> 
> Sounds like your husband really can't win. But that's my humble opinion. I really don't know how I would feel about my wife if she had a blog/post where everyday all she did was criticize me, even the little things like, "he didn't even notice I shaved until after I was getting dressed... and now I have to deal with the razor bumps!"
> 
> Dang.


I don't understand all the personal attacks, and twisting my words, and repeating them over and over? :scratchhead:

For the record I shaved for myself, because I missed it, I was just a little disappointed when he didn't notice.

I don't blame the razor bumps on him. He has nothing to do with it, so again how is that a stab at him? Those 2 years I shaved were BEFORE we were having sex. It was my personal decision. 

I also don't understand what my broken hand has to do with anything, or any of my marriage problems?

I don't criticize my husband daily. I would never say things to him that would purposely hurt him. I always build him up, I always compliment him. I share my problems here for advice, and hopefully so someone can learn something from it. I would never bash him to his friends or family. I think he is a great guy, who is sexually immature.

I also don't understand how he can't win? He has a wife who cooks and cleans for him everyday and tells him how great he is. He has as much sex as he wants, when he wants it. I have no idea how you think he is "losing."


----------



## MaritimeGuy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It occurs to me you've mentioned bladder infections a couple times in the thread. Is it possible your husband is carrying something and keeps reinfecting you?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MaritimeGuy said:


> It occurs to me you've mentioned bladder infections a couple times in the thread. Is it possible your husband is carrying something and keeps reinfecting you?


I think this is the 3rd time I've gotten a bladder infection since we started having sex. That's quite a bit. 

I don't think he is carrying something. He is clean.

But I know I had them a lot as a kid. So maybe I'm just prone to them?

Also we start and stop PIV, oral, manual... several times during sex. So I'm sure pulling out then me sucking or rubbing for a while then sticking it back in can carry quite a few germs. 

I also don't drink as much water as I should.

I talked to my doctor today and she had to buy some cranberry pills. I think I'll start taking them as a precaution and see if it helps.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Coldie said:


> ... and you were complaining you had to feel the bumps you felt for an entire two years again. And you were complaining that he didn't notice until after you had sex that you shaved. Also, you have a hand that could be fractured, or sprained, but it hurts.
> 
> Gotcha. I think that is what you stated.
> 
> Sounds like your husband really can't win. But that's my humble opinion. I really don't know how I would feel about my wife if she had a blog/post where everyday all she did was criticize me, even the little things like, "he didn't even notice I shaved until after I was getting dressed... and now I have to deal with the razor bumps!"
> 
> Dang.


Are you for real?

Have you gotten to the posts where she talks about trying to get her husband to make love to her in way that will give her an orgasm?

Have you gotten to the posts where she give her H BJ's all the time and yet he can't be bothered to return the favor?


Have you gotten to the posts where he complains she isn't sexy and that's why he doesn't take care of her needs?

And yet you have the temerity to complain about her physical complaints, broken wrist and bladder infection. You totally minimize these things yet focus in on her being upset because he was late?

I think this is yet another care of projection. We have all fallen into this. At least I know I have. But I think your pointed remarks are way off base and down right hurtful as a result.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Are you for real?
> 
> I think this is yet another case of projection. We have all fallen into this. At least I know I have. But I think your pointed remarks are way off base and down right hurtful as a result.


Thanks. Just what I need is someone stomping on my already bruised self esteem.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ignore him honey!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No problem!

Now I'm off to go home, cook something yummy, and have some reunited sex with my husband. Rawr.


----------



## FizzBomb

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"Also I feel like as a grown man he spends way more than enough time with his friends. He was gone the last several days with his friends. And he is frequently spending the night places, etc... How many other adults do you know that do this?"

I don't know of any grown married men who do this to be honest with you. It seems odd that he would frequently spend nights away when he has a loving wife at home. :scratchhead:

Doesn't he want to be home with you? Are his friends single?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Not only that - this couple is in their early 20's and waited till marriage to have sex. This husband has all access sex at home and is choosing to bunk with friends. It's just not right!

Man, I remember being that age. I was engaged in college. I was a virgin and we were waiting for marriage. I was like - man when I finally get a green light on this stuff I am never going to leave the house.

Kind of like how you will feel again in your 40's, Curious.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't know if it is that abnormal for a person to have other interests (particularly an LD) I have a friend that was always doing stuff with the guys, -Softball, Band, airplanes, etc.. he just was not the type to do stuff around the house or just hang out with his wife. (who coincidentally had an affair)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Not only that - this couple is in their early 20's and waited till marriage to have sex. This husband has all access sex at home and is choosing to bunk with friends. It's just not right!
> 
> Man, I remember being that age. I was engaged in college. I was a virgin and we were waiting for marriage. I was like - man when I finally get a green light on this stuff I am never going to leave the house.
> 
> Kind of like how you will feel again in your 40's, Curious.


That is how I feel. I would never leave the bedroom if I had the choice.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My husband is often gone with friends. 

His friends are mostly single, and they are always getting together and going camping, or playing video games all night. 

I'd say he stays the night somewhere at least once a month. When some of the friends are back from college it's probably closer to once every week or two.

That is just spending the night. He probably goes out with friends at least once a week and is gone all evening. His friends also stay here sometimes. Plus he does softball 2 days a week part of the year. 

I'll admit I do get a little jealous and hurt that he'd rather be hanging out with them than with me. That is where most of the sexual problems would start. I would come home excited for sex, and he would go to a friends house and stay out late late, and forget all about the sexual plans we had.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But onto better news!

Last night my husband was AWESOME! :smthumbup:

My bladder infection was feeling pretty crummy last night. Husband came home from work and babied me and helped me cook, and rubbed my belly.

We had planned on having sex, but husband was so scared that it would hurt me, or make the UTI worse. I told him that we could try PIV and if it hurt we would just stop and we could end with oral or manual. But he was still worried.

He wanted to rub me, and he said he would just wait until another day. That is the first time he has *EVER* offered to take care of me and not get his too.  He was genuine. Maybe the talk helped. 

I didn't want that of course, so I offered to just wait another day. But he knew how much I wanted it, and decided to try.

He told me if it hurt one bit, we were stopping, and that tonight was all about me. 

He laid me down and was so gentle and sweet. He rubbed my back and took things slow. If I tried to sit up to participate more he pushed me back down and just told me to enjoy it. 

He wouldn't even let me take off his jeans that little tease. He said he didn't want me focusing on him. 

It was a great time, and it didn't hurt a bit. After I was finished, he asked me if I was sure I wanted to do PIV. I said yes, and he made sure to be gentle and quick. 

It felt nice to be wooed and given extra attention.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And that's how it's supposed to be! Maybe not every single time, but often enough so that you unequivocally feel loved and cherished!

Yeah!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> And that's how it's supposed to be! Maybe not every single time, but often enough so that you unequivocally feel loved and cherished!
> 
> Yeah!


If he did that every week or two I'd be in heaven.

I'd also be more than happy to return the favor, and focus on him some days too.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> If he did that every week or two I'd be in heaven.
> 
> I'd also be more than happy to return the favor, and focus on him some days too.


Did you say this to him last night?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It felt nice to be wooed and given extra attention.


Great to hear. 

Make sure that in a day or so, you snuggle up to him and thank him for this. Nothing over the top, but a genuine statement that you loved what he did for you, appreciate that he focused on you, and that you really felt his love. If he tries to minimize it, just tell him it was a big deal to you. Positive reinforcement can be your friend here.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Did you say this to him last night?


No, I should have. I did tell him how much I enjoyed it, and how nice it was of him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Great to hear.
> 
> Make sure that in a day or so, you snuggle up to him and thank him for this. Nothing over the top, but a genuine statement that you loved what he did for you, appreciate that he focused on you, and that you really felt his love. If he tries to minimize it, just tell him it was a big deal to you. Positive reinforcement can be your friend here.


Good idea! I did shower him with encouragement and compliments last night. But I'm sure waiting a couple days then bringing it back up would be a good idea. Will do.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yup, make his day by letting him know you good me made you feel.


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

*Re: Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No, I should have. I did tell him how much I enjoyed it, and how nice it was of him.


Positive reinforcement. Make sure he knows he did the right thing, and especially let him know how good him doing the right thing makes you feel.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Good idea! I did shower him with encouragement and compliments last night. But I'm sure waiting a couple days then bringing it back up would be a good idea. Will do.


It can be a fine line to walk. Telling him at the time was great. Telling him again a day or two later helps reinforce. But if you tell him too often for this one time, or go overboard in the praise, it can come off as not authentic.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How are you doing Curious? I hope no news is good news........


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> How are you doing Curious? I hope no news is good news........



Eh. Treading water. 

He has been trying a little more. Such as the other day he blindfolded me and did oral for a while.

So on his end it's all good.

I've been having some trouble getting there, and it's been taking a while, so I've asked him to stop a few times, or it went on too long we've both just been tired and bored.

Actually last week he tried for an hour (he wouldn't give up when I asked him to) and eventually I talked him into stopping. He was so exhausted and unaroused at this point he actually didn't want to finish either.  He wouldn't even let me give him a blow job or a hand job or anything. It made me feel like a failure as a woman, but he said it wasn't fair that he would have an orgasm if I didn't.

I don't know what is up but I'm just not all that horny. Even when we are having sex I'm not really aroused. Just kind of bleh. It doesn't feel all that great, and it's hard to fake enthusiasm. So sadly I think we are both kind of doing it out of duty instead of actually craving it. Our frequency dropped a little.

It makes me sympathize a little more with LD people. If you just don't feel in the mood, it is hard to get excited about it. 

I'm not sure what is going on. But I did have like a month long bladder infection, and I'm due to start my period on Wednesday. So hopefully when that's over I'll be "reset." Also I am fighting off some sort of sickness. Headaches and sniffles, and little sleep.

I do hate period week.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

With my horniness level turned down a bit, we seem to be getting along better. I am not constantly begging for sex, and he has been letting me touch him a little more. I guess because he knows I'm not just trying to initiate sex.

This was period week. I think he is starting to understand that my needs are important too. He did not ask for a blow job or a hand job at all. 

I had a fever blister, so that probably had something to do with the no oral, but I am surprised he did not ask for something.

All week he told me how he could not wait until Wednesday to have sex again. Then yesterday we were snuggling and I guess he started feeling frisky and he asked to have sex. 

He doesn't kiss me when I have a fever blister, (he is afraid of getting one) so I was skeptical that he actually wanted to have sex with no kissing. I reminded him about the blister and he said oh yeah, darn never mind. 

I was sad that he got my hopes up then changed his mind. I went back to what I was doing, and a couple minutes later he came and picked me up off the couch and carried me to the bedroom. He said he couldn't stand waiting anymore. :smthumbup: 

I fought back a little, because I didn't want to spread my germs but he insisted. It was nice. After I got mine, we went to the shower and I gave him a hand job. (His choice, still a little shy about ick)

Now I hope he doesn't catch my herpes. lol


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I forgot to mention about your last post that the same thing has been happening to me (lower drive.)

Do you imagine that getting our husbands trained makes us feel more secure and less crazy for it because we know we can have it? Perhaps before there was a scarcity issue and it played in psychologically.

Because the same thing was happening to me - and both our husbands are on the learning curve - I was wondering if there was something to it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No I don't feel any more secure... I just feel more indifferent.

It is odd. 

Randomwife that is what happens here too.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW - Are you sure you aren't married to my wife? lol. We can't even begin to have a discussion - it's simply my problem and my fault, and my being unreasonable (although I would be thrilled to be having sex 2-3 times a week, as you are - or were - haven't read all your posts. I miss not just the sex, but the affection - holding hands, kissing, etc. I think there should be a "Spouse Exchange Store" where all the LD spouses can be matched up with other LD spouses and they can all be happy together, lol. It is simply very hard to have a conversation, when one spouse simply says "there is no problem" - therefore there is nothing to discuss.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well yesterday was.. weird.

I got myself all psyched up for sex all day. My friend was suppose to come over and visit at 6.30 so I got home early, got dinner all made, got all gussied up and was ready and waiting when husband got home because we would only have an hour and a half before she got there.

Well when he got home he was sick. Bad sniffles, can't breath, coughing. But he was very sweet and offered to please me anyway because he knew how excited I was.

So we went ahead and tried. But there was no kissing, and a coughing, sniffling man isn't exactly arousing. lol. We were laughing about it. 

I had trouble getting there, as usual. And it was hurting. I'm usually a little sore after cranky week. But he was being gentle, and trying. 

Well just when I'm hitting the good stage. The phone rings. It's my friend saying she was on the way. :banghead:

This is 30 minutes early... and she lives 5 minutes away. So then of course we have to jump up and scrambled to rinse off. I had to hurry up and finish husband, and of course mine got cut short. My clothes got put back on just as she pulled into the driveway.

Sigh. Oh well. Things happen. Hoping husband can beat off his cold before Saturday.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think I need to get advice from you as to how to get my wife to be like you! I would love it if she had your level of desire and wanting not just sex, but affection like you do. Your hubby doesn't know how extraordinarily lucky he is!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



last worthless evening said:


> I think I need to get advice from you as to how to get my wife to be like you! I would love it if she had your level of desire and wanting not just sex, but affection like you do. Your hubby doesn't know how extraordinarily lucky he is!


I'm not sure how much I could help. I have no idea what causes a person to like sex.  Seems like some people just do and some don't.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Crappy is a good way to describe last night.

I tried to make sugar cookies to surprise an older man that I work with. He fell and broke some ribs and is home bound, so I'd thought I'd bring him a treat and wish him a happy valentines day.

Well I don't know what happened but they just didn't turn out, I spent hours trying to fix them, and had to get up early this morning to try again. They are edible... I think. I'm a little scared to give them to him, but after so much effort there is no going back now.

We tried to have sex last night. Same old same old. He couldn't get me there after an hour of trying, until I finally made him stop. He was unaroused, and clearly upset because he feels like a failure. He is getting to the point that he says he doesn't deserve to finish if I don't and I have to fight him to let me take care of his needs. 

I don't know what the deal is. I used to orgasm in 5 -20 minutes. Never longer. Now it takes 45+ and it's always a crap shoot if it will happen or not. 

My drive is lower too. 

I don't know which one is causing the other, or if they are related. But nothing has changed in my lifestyle or eating habits or anything. 
*
What can be going on? HELP!*

I think it is causing us both some anxiety, and I'm getting to the point where I wonder if it's even worth it to try and possibly be disappointed again. It ruins the evening when he tries so hard and spends so much time only to fail. Then he is upset, which makes me upset. And even if we get there, by then we are half asleep, bored, and it's just like "wow glad that's over."

Hoping this weekend is better. 

Husband was very sweet and surprised me with flowers.

Funny we were both going to surprise each other with our favorite meal, Shrimp Alfredo tonight. We caught each other buying ingredients last night, so we laughed and agreed to make it together. 

Then we are going to drive out to the local park with strawberrys and have a car picnic as we watch the sunset.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We tried to have sex last night. Same old same old. He couldn't get me there after an hour of trying, until I finally made him stop. He was unaroused, and clearly upset because he feels like a failure.


I think you two are starting to turn this into an ordeal, a chore, and it's turning you off to your desire.

Why do you feel the need to "O" _every single time_ you have sex? The pressure from that alone is enough to turn anyone off and start dreading the whole process. Don't get me wrong, orgasming is very important, and I'm certainly not advocating neglecting the "finish", but I just don't feel it has to happen for both partners, every single time. 

Just relax and stop slogging away, on and on, getting more and more frustrated. And why not pick up a sexy vibrator and hubby can start with that and when you're almost there, finish with his mouth? Or hand? 5 minutes instead of 1 hour.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah maybe it is just that you have been having to work on this for a while and just need a break. 

It seems to me you two have made much progress in communication. He may need to work on his aggressiveness a bit more you may be in a natural slump or maybe you need him to take the lead a bit more.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> I think you two are starting to turn this into an ordeal, a chore, and it's turning you off to your desire.
> 
> Why do you feel the need to "O" _every single time_ you have sex? *The pressure from that alone is enough to turn anyone off and start dreading the whole process. * Don't get me wrong, orgasming is very important, and I'm certainly not advocating neglecting the "finish", but I *just don't feel it has to happen for both partners, every single time. *
> 
> Just relax and stop slogging away, on and on, getting more and more frustrated. And why not pick up a sexy vibrator and hubby can start with that and when you're almost there, finish with his mouth? Or hand? 5 minutes instead of 1 hour.


I agree with your last paragraph, but I could not disagree more strongly with the bolded part! If she didn't WANT to orgasm, his effort to make her orgasm would be annoying. But she WANTS to orgasm. She is aroused, she is eager to get there, but her H doesn't put in the effort, neither physically nor emotionally, to get her there!

Her head is messaed up because he has demonstrated he doesn't give a **** about her feeling as good as he does about sex. So when she wants to orgasm, she has to get emotionally past the point of reference he has given her "You are too much work and not worth the effort." That is NOT the mind set to put a woman at ease so she can focus on the loving and enjoyable feelings!

The purpose of this thread for me at least, has to be help CW stand up for herself and INSIST on a reciprocal level of interest he shows to her as she shows to him.

Once he consistently demonstrates his care and concern, her orgasm will no doubt come much easier because she doesn't have the mental hurdles to get over.

It's just like when men get ED because of some mental issue. It's not that they don't WANT to have sex. It's the mental road blocks that interfere.

I'm sorry but your reply seriously pissed me off! If he can't handle the pressure of putting in some honest effort, he shouldn't have gotten married and just paid for hookers and kept a dog instead.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> I think you two are starting to turn this into an ordeal, a chore, and it's turning you off to your desire.
> 
> Why do you feel the need to "O" _every single time_ you have sex? The pressure from that alone is enough to turn anyone off and start dreading the whole process. Don't get me wrong, orgasming is very important, and I'm certainly not advocating neglecting the "finish", but I just don't feel it has to happen for both partners, every single time.
> 
> Just relax and stop slogging away, on and on, getting more and more frustrated. And why not pick up a sexy vibrator and hubby can start with that and when you're almost there, finish with his mouth? Or hand? 5 minutes instead of 1 hour.


I don't feel the need to O every time. But with the problem of him not taking care of my needs willingly in the past, I'm a little scared to start giving him the green light that it's okay if he doesn't want to get me there. I've spent so long, telling him how important mine his. If I don't think it is important myself anymore, how can he think it's important.

Recently I have suggested once or twice that we just don't worry about mine if I'm not really feeling it. But he will not stop. But who can blame him after the many long discussions we have had about him not putting in the effort. I'm telling him two different things.

I'd love to buy a vibrator. And trust me I've worn out my mouth telling him how we should try it, and how it would take the pressure off. But no amount of begging, asking, or reasoning will get him to allow me to buy one. He says absolutely not. He even gets upset if I bring it up anymore.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I agree with your last paragraph, but I could not disagree more strongly with the bolded part! If she didn't WANT to orgasm, his effort to make her orgasm would be annoying. But she WANTS to orgasm. She is aroused, she is eager to get there, but her H doesn't put in the effort, neither physically nor emotionally, to get her there!
> 
> Her head is messaed up because he has demonstrated he doesn't give a **** about her feeling as good as he does about sex. So when she wants to orgasm, she has to get emotionally past the point of reference he has given her "You are too much work and not worth the effort." That is NOT the mind set to put a woman at ease so she can focus on the loving and enjoyable feelings!
> 
> The purpose of this thread for me at least, has to be help CW stand up for herself and INSIST on a reciprocal level of interest he shows to her as she shows to him.
> 
> Once he consistently demonstrates his care and concern, her orgasm will no doubt come much easier because she doesn't have the mental hurdles to get over.
> 
> It's just like when men get ED because of some mental issue. It's not that they don't WANT to have sex. It's the mental road blocks that interfere.
> 
> I'm sorry but your reply seriously pissed me off! If he can't handle the pressure of putting in some honest effort, he shouldn't have gotten married and just paid for hookers and kept a dog instead.


You've hit the nail on the head. I want to orgasm. I just can't?

He is trying now, and he does tell and show me that he cares about my orgasm. So I'm not sure why this is happening now, when he is doing better than he ever has. 

I know I still hold onto and think about those thoughts, "I bet he is bored. I bet he is hating this." etc. I can't help it.

And I still have to be the purser.... If you look back a page or so, recently he carried me to bed and "took" me. I had no trouble orgasming then... 

So I think I'm still not mentally healed yet. Even though I want to be, and he is trying.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I'm sorry but your reply seriously pissed me off! If he can't handle the pressure of putting in some honest effort, he shouldn't have gotten married and just paid for hookers and kept a dog instead.


Sorry to make you angry Anon. But we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I mostly agree with what you say in your posts, but not here; I certainly didn't mean to push your buttons. And I stand behind my bolded comments. 

When you keep doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results, it's time to try something different. If you _really_ want to see this develop into a full-blown sexual hangup, keep having hour-long marathon sessions where she can't orgasm and watch how productive that is. It will turn into chronic problems where resentment builds.

My whole point is to change it up. Take the pressure off by doing something different. Use toys, come up with a solution to a _temporary_ problem before it becomes chronic.

You make the point that "he doesn't give a sh*t about her feelings".... in my mind, if that's true, they have much bigger issues to deal with than in the bedroom. I would be questioning whether this is a relationship I would even want to be in.

And CW just posted that he _is_ trying and being considerate, more than ever. So that goes to my point exactly.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You've hit the nail on the head. I want to orgasm. I just can't?
> 
> He is trying now, and he does tell and show me that he cares about my orgasm. So I'm not sure why this is happening now, when he is doing better than he ever has.
> 
> I know I still hold onto and think about those thoughts, "*I bet he is bored. I bet he is hating this." etc. I can't help it.*
> 
> *And I still have to be the purser.... If you look back a page or so, recently he carried me to bed and "took" me. I had no trouble orgasming then... *
> 
> So I think I'm still not mentally healed yet. Even though I want to be, and he is trying.


There's your answer! You need him to show more desire for you and he isn't. So your mind is going to end of the spectrum of what it might mean if your man doesn't show the level of desire for you that speaks to you!

It's not an orgasm problem, it's a problem with showing emotions and desire and receiving the right message.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> There's your answer! You need him to show more desire for you and he isn't. So your mind is going to end of the spectrum of what it might mean if your man doesn't show the level of desire for you that speaks to you!
> 
> It's not an orgasm problem, it's a problem with showing emotions and desire and receiving the right message.


But how do we work on this?

Because I feel like he is trying. He gave me oral for like 5 minutes yesterday. But after about 15 minutes or kissing and playing around we lay next to each other and settle right back into our old routine. Then my mind starts wandering.

I've brought it up in the past, and he noted that I could do something different too, it's not just him. I agree, But I don't know what. 

Last night he tried all the go to's. I don't want to share too much detail but when he seen I was struggling he switched it up for a few minutes and tried rubbing other places, kissing, stimulating my g spot, talking dirty. This did get me closer, but not quite over the edge. I was almost there, it's just so frustrating. Sometimes the orgasm will even start, then just cut off. 

It's like all the old stuff that used to set me off just isn't quite cutting it anymore.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I didn't enjoy oral for a long time. My husband never did it and when he did, he would then go wash his face and brush his teeth. I was too afraid to ask if he disliked my scent or taste that much. So, I stopped allowing it. Then one night he started to head south, I stopped him saying I wasn't clean enough. He kept going saying it was okay. Afterward he washed his face and brushed his teeth like always. I finally got angry and then I was able to say, I warned you I wasn't clean enough! Then he said he washes and brushes so that I am not upset with my scent on him. 

Well hells bells that was something I never considered!

The point is, when you communicate what you want and he does it, you have to understand he is doing it because he wants to. Because he wants to see you happy and he wants to make you feel loved.

If he asked you to have sex with some other guy you would probably say no, right? You would say no because on that point, making him happy would make you unhappy. 

If he didn't want to please you, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing. You have to replace those negative thoughts with thoughts that reinforce that he desires you, he wants you, he wants to see you squirm and squeal with orgasmic pleasure!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

i am troubled by the fact that you want to buy a vibrator and he "absolutely won't let you buy one." Hmmmm... Curious, you are a grown woman and IMHO you do not need "permission" to buy one.

I understand you don't want to rock the boat, but I think you need to have a serious discussion with him. I'm not sure what his hangups are regarding a vibrator (is it religious reasons?) but I never like to see when one partner dictates what the other partner can or cannot do. With or within reason, of course.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> The point is, when you communicate what you want and he does it, you have to understand he is doing it because he wants to. Because he wants to see you happy and he wants to make you feel loved.
> 
> If he asked you to have sex with some other guy you would probably say no, right? You would say no because on that point, making him happy would make you unhappy.
> 
> If he didn't want to please you, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing. You have to replace those negative thoughts with thoughts that reinforce that he desires you, he wants you, he wants to see you squirm and squeal with orgasmic pleasure!



I want to believe that. But it is hard for me. 

I wish I could just reprogram my brain sometimes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> i am troubled by the fact that you want to buy a vibrator and he "absolutely won't let you buy one." Hmmmm... Curious, you are a grown woman and IMHO you do not need "permission" to buy one.
> 
> I understand you don't want to rock the boat, but I think you need to have a serious discussion with him. I'm not sure what his hangups are regarding a vibrator (is it religious reasons?) but I never like to see when one partner dictates what the other partner can or cannot do. With or within reason, of course.


He thinks I will become addicted to using it, or that I will enjoy it better than him. He also says he can't replicate the movement, and that he would be scared that I would become desensitized to him...

But I masturbate with the shower head, and it has the same movements. I am by no means addicted or desensitized. He doesn't know about that though. 

He told me if I bought one he would be very upset. I think I would feel too guilty to use it, or I would hide it and lie about it. Which I'm sure isn't good for a marriage. So I just gave up on getting one for now.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree with AP.

What needs to happen next is he needs to tell you how much he desires you and what he wants to do to you and how hot you are to him in his own words.

However this is difficult, because it will have 100% more effect if he just does this without you asking for it.

Wish somebody could whisper something in his ear to let him know.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well valentines day it's self was kind of bleh. It was terribly cold, and icy, so we didn't get to go on our picnic. We are hoping to go Tuesday.

Saturday was fun. I put on my new outfit and surprised him. He really liked it. :smthumbup:

I was a little upset because when I got out my brand new thigh highs and put them on they had a huge rip down the front. Gr. I thought it looked horrible but husband said it looked kind of "dirty" and that I should not return them.  Men.

He gave me oral for a while. 

I orgasmed in about 5 minutes. (Not from the oral.) We were both a little surprised. lol. We decided to try for another one, be after 30 more minutes we gave up on that. 

It was lots of fun, I'm glad my outfit was a success.  We didn't even take it off. 

We also went out to eat for lunch and then spent the rest of the day watching cheesy movies. My kind of day.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's great. What was he showing you on the lead up to sex when you Od so quickly? Was he showing his desire for you, were you particularly horny? Did you work on replacing self doubts with positive thoughts?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> The point is, when you communicate what you want and he does it, you have to understand he is doing it because he wants to. Because he wants to see you happy and he wants to make you feel loved............................................
> If he didn't want to please you, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing. You have to replace those negative thoughts with thoughts that reinforce that he desires you, he wants you, he wants to see you squirm and squeal with orgasmic pleasure!


Totally agree! Well said!


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But how do we work on this?


I have to agree with everything Anon has been saying.

I think you need to keep reinforcing his behavior like: ..a couple of weeks ago when you carried me off to the bed -that was hot! etc..

Try new things along that line. 

Also in defense of us guys -for me I do like playing that slightly more assertive role but need positive feedback. Bringing on a quick O is certainly a sign that the guy is on the right track but he might need something a bit more direct. Because most of us learn that we need to be kind and respectful to women and are cautious about letting the caveman out. 

Just remember that you having to tell him what you need does not mean that he does not desire you. He simply lacks the knowledge of how to show his desire for you in the best possible way.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I imagine it has to do with what signals he is sending out. I know my wife never has to guess. She can tell that I am very turned on by her, and that it actually gives me enormous pleasure to give her pleasure and the more excited that she is, the more excited I am. There is never any doubt that it is not "work" for me, but giving to her is something that I truly enjoy. As for him not wanting you to have a vibrator, once again, if he is truly concerned about your pleasure, then he should be open to a variety of ways to please you - this just being one way. My wife refuses to use on, even though I bought her one - says she prefers "the real thing" although I think she is afraid to admit to herself that she might enjoy it too much. Bottom line is, in a loving relationship, both partners should want to give their partner pleasure and I think that your current problem is that you aren't feeling desired, which can create a mental roadblock to reaching an orgasm.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> That's great. What was he showing you on the lead up to sex when you Od so quickly? Was he showing his desire for you, were you particularly horny? Did you work on replacing self doubts with positive thoughts?


I have no idea what the difference is. I think he just showed his enthusiasm and excitement for my outfit and I felt desired. Honestly my enjoyment is like 90% from him enjoying it. 

But anyway I am back! :smthumbup:

We had another great night. I took less than 15 minutes. And I swear it was the longest orgasm I have ever had. It was strange. It went on for 2 minutes? I didn't know that could happen. I don't know if it was one big one, or lots of little ones, but I rode that wave. 

Husband was as shocked as I was. In fact I guess my fun got a little too exciting for him and he had an accident.  Lucky I got most of it, and not our sheets. lol. 

Oh I do enjoy being myself again. I hope it sticks around this time.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have no idea what the difference is. I think he just showed his enthusiasm and excitement for my outfit and I felt desired. Honestly my enjoyment is like 90% from him enjoying it.
> 
> But anyway I am back! :smthumbup:
> 
> We had another great night. I took less than 15 minutes. And I swear it was the longest orgasm I have ever had. It was strange. It went on for 2 minutes? I didn't know that could happen. I don't know if it was one big one, or lots of little ones, but I rode that wave.
> 
> Husband was as shocked as I was. In fact I guess my fun got a little too exciting for him and he had an accident.  Lucky I got most of it, and not our sheets. lol.
> 
> Oh I do enjoy being myself again. I hope it sticks around this time.


You have identified the difference you feel. "* he just showed his enthusiasm and excitement ....... and I felt desired.*" The other time was when he carried you to the bedroom. You feel his desire and excitement (enthusiasm) and you can't help but respond to that. 

It can be kind of tricky because it is a recipe that changes from day to day in very subtle ways. But once you two begin to understand how you each react to the other, the sky is the limit!

Please make sure you share these things with your husband so he is also aware of these subtleties.

Well done my girl, well done!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I will make sure to let him know.

Also he has been giving me oral more. I got it the last two times... Maybe that is part of the change too. 

I think he is getting more confident at it. I love it.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you! Sounds like I hit the nail on the head - when you feel truly desired, you respond positively. Although I don't turn it down, there is a huge difference when my wife is just doing it, because "it's time" and she is doing me a favor, versus when she is excited and wants it. I think it is perfectly normal to not just have sex with your spouse, but to want to feel wanted and desired, and when that happens, it makes all the difference in the world. I hope this continues for you, please let us know.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I feel like last night was a small step forward.

I had sex on the mind, as usual. We had already mentioned having sex earlier in the day because his friend is staying the night today. 

I have been trying to back off and let him come to me. It makes things go smoother for both of us if he doesn't feel pressured, and I don't feel like I am making him.

But it got later and later he was just watching tv and not bringing it up. At 9.30 I figured it better be now or never, so I asked him if I should go get cleaned up or if we should skip. He said he wanted to do it, so I went and showered. When I came back he was laying on his stomach and didn't even look at me, so I straddled him and told him he should flip around. He said he was comfy. 

So I got off and moved away, telling myself that was it. I do not beg anymore. A couple minutes later he got up and said lets go do this. I tried to put him off, but he complained that we weren't going to be able to do it tonight so we better do it then.

By now he could tell I wasn't emotionally in the mood anymore. I rolled away from him, and told him I'd rather wait. But he rubbed my back, and tried to sweet talk me into it. I just laid there and let him do whatever, although I clearly told him I would rather we skip my turn tonight because I just wasn't "feeling" it. He insisted and rubbed for awhile. It was awkward just like it used to be all the time. 

It felt really good, but my mind and heart was not into it at all.

I just was not getting anywhere, and I was tired, and for the first time in my life I actually though. "I wish he would just hurry up and get it over with." I caught myself thinking that, and it made me sad. 

And then he started drifting off to sleep. Okay buddy that was it. I got up and told him it was time for PIV and that I wanted him to go ahead and finish but he argued again saying that my fun was the best part, and that he was not having one until I did, etc. Honestly I asked for a position that I knew he wouldn't last long in, hoping I could "accidentally" make him hurry up. (That sounds so bad.)

Well long story, slightly shorter. He was still determined to get me there so he rubbed during PIV and within about 2 minutes I was the one who "accidentally" let one slip.  

I was surprised it happened. The mind was weak, but I guess the body was willing. I have never had one in the position... I didn't think I could. 

Anyway. The reason I say it was a step forward was because I realized that it was not good that I was actually thinking that I wanted him to hurry. What is the point in having sex if you are gritting your teeth and pushing through it. I will work on thinking positive things and not negative next time.

Also afterwards he realized that he was being lazy and that his meh attitude was the reason I wasn't into it either. He apologized and we constructively thought of ways we could improve that, maybe by exercising before, or having sex earlier in the evening before he was tired, and had laid on the couch for hours. 

I don't know if he has ever acknowledged that it was his fault the sex was bad before. He admitted to falling asleep, and that he realizes what things lead to me not feeling desired.

I am just glad he saw it this time. Maybe we can work on it together.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:smthumbup:

We had some of the best, rough, most passionate sex ever!

The kind that makes your legs sore all day. In fact I think I tweaked my knee, and I'm still walking with a limp. 

Not to mention the 5 minute finish. It might have been the fastest sex encounter ever were we both finished. 

This week definitively ranks as one of our best sexual weeks.

We are both walking around with smiles and puffed up egos.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Glad to hear it. How wonderful. Your efforts have paid off.

I suppose that next romp will put the in the emergency room, smiling but in pain with the doctor wondering how that happened? lol


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Glad to hear it. How wonderful. Your efforts have paid off.
> 
> I suppose that next romp will put the in the emergency room, smiling but in pain with the doctor wondering how that happened? lol




I hope we don't go to the emergency room. lol

To put our sex life into perspective though, even after this great week of sex, he still rejected me both yesterday and the day before.

I was kind of hoping it would strengthen his ego, or make him want sex more, but nope. 

A girl just can't win them all.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes (us guys can't either)
I used to push my wife more but settled for fairly enthusiastic sex once a week (which does not bother me as much at age 52) It is nice to have both quality and quantity but if you can achieve quality I think you are ahead of the game.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I hope we don't go to the emergency room. lol
> 
> To put our sex life into perspective though, even after this great week of sex, he still rejected me both yesterday and the day before.
> 
> I was kind of hoping it would strengthen his ego, or make him want sex more, but nope.
> 
> A girl just can't win them all.


I think you are making tremendous progress - even if it is 2 steps forward, one step back - in the long run it is progress. 2 days in a row of tremendous sex, where you had your best orgasms ever and he was clearly expressing his passion for you - which is what you crave and deserve - sounds very good to me. Yes, every day of the same would be even better, but just stay positive and enjoy the ride (pun fully intended!). If I made half the progress with wife as you have made with your husband, I would be thrilled. Even if it isn't every day, he clearly has passion for you that he is now (not sure why not before) willing to show you that he has. Best of continued success for the two of you!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well fiddle dee dee.

I'll start with the good news. This past month was great. We had sex 6 times in a row where we both got off and it didn't take forever either. That is is a record for us! Things were going great...

And now period week is here and everything hits the crapper. As usual.



Haven't had sex since Saturday. Got rejected Sunday, Monday we were busy. Last night was the last day before period week when I'm "off limits." 

I talked to him about how I hate that sex is so scheduled. He argued and said it wasn't, that we just do it every other day. Yeah, that's a schedule. No amount of flirting, seducing, or talking will get him to have sex if it is not on a "scheduled" day. It bothers me that we can't have a normal sex life. When we just have sex when the feeling is right. It always has to be on his day, on his time. 

I tried getting a little frisky last night. Every time I touched him he would slap my hand away, push me away, tell me no, move away from me... etc. "Playfully" he calls it. But it is most definitely not a joke. He basically tells me no then adds a smile on the end or a wink so it doesn't seem like he is being a jerk. But it is still the same rejection.

It makes me so upset that I can't touch my husband. I'm not always trying to get him to make love to me. I honestly just enjoying touching him. But he absolutely won't let me touch him below the belt unless we are in bed and actively having sex. Sometimes even when we are in bed having sex he will keep his clothes on and/or not let me touch him until it's time for PIV. It makes me crazy!

He also doesn't usually let me see him naked. He won't sleep naked. When he takes a shower he wears a robe while he is getting dressed. He will put his boxers on under his robe, then take it off to finish getting dressed. How does that make me feel!? I'll beg for him to flash me, but he wont. He even usually turns away when he puts his boxers on. I guess in case the robe opens and I would happen to get a glimpse... What the heck.

He gets mad if I peek on him in the shower. He doesn't like to shower together, and if we do there still isn't any touching unless we are getting ready to go have sex.

We go days without kissing and then he might complain about the kissing, but why would I want to kiss him if he won't let me touch him, or I know it won't lead anywhere. It's like we are kids again and are trying not to get in trouble. he is my husband, dang it, and I should be allowed to touch any part of his body if I want to.

After he stopped me from touching a few times I scooted away from him on the couch and told him it upset me that he doesn't let me touch him. After an hour I just came out and said, "Aren't you even horny!? We haven't had sex in days." His only reply was a shrug and, "Two days, don't be dramatic. You will probably talk me into having sex with you by Saturday anyway." 


He fell asleep by 8pm. At 9pm he woke up for a minute and said we could have sex if I wanted to. I told him no thanks, that it was no fun when we were sleepy. I did not sleep the night before, so I am exhausted by this point. He started to argue, then was back asleep in about 5 seconds. 

I got up and did the dishes, and went to bed without him. He ended up waking up in the middle of the night and coming to bed. 

Now this morning he was being extra nice. I'm sure because he knows that I am upset. He also was being extra frisky and peeking on me in the shower. I'm sure he is horny. It's cranky time now, so he'll say that I should give him a blow job since we "can't" have sex. haha. Well too bad buster. 

His birthday is Monday, and I have already promised him one then. 

*sigh* Everything that goes up, must come back down.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I talked to him about how I hate that sex is so scheduled. He argued and said it wasn't, that we just do it every other day. Yeah, that's a schedule. No amount of flirting, seducing, or talking will get him to have sex if it is not on a "scheduled" day. It bothers me that we can't have a normal sex life. When we just have sex when the feeling is right. It always has to be on his day, on his time.


Understanding that you are frustrated and have a past with him to work through, may I suggest that the "schedule" that you speak of is a fairly normal sex life for many of us. My wife is similar. Great sex last night means she just won't be up for it tonight the vast majority of the time. It is almost like a reservoir that she needs to fill up. No matter what I do, sex tonight almost certainly won't happen. 

This does not make it easier for you. But I share it to let you know that this is not necessarily an abnormal set of circumstances. 



> Now this morning he was being extra nice. I'm sure because he knows that I am upset. He also was being extra frisky and peeking on me in the shower. I'm sure he is horny. It's cranky time now, so he'll say that I should give him a blow job since we "can't" have sex. haha. Well too bad buster.


Glad to hear this is your attitude. Make clear to him why he is left out in the cold.



> His birthday is Monday, and I have already promised him one then.


I seemed to recall that he promised to work on the marital sex issues together. If he is not following through on his promises, it seems reasonable for you to ask him point blank why you are expected to follow through on yours.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Understanding that you are frustrated and have a past with him to work through, may I suggest that the "schedule" that you speak of is a fairly normal sex life for many of us. My wife is similar. Great sex last night means she just won't be up for it tonight the vast majority of the time. It is almost like a reservoir that she needs to fill up. No matter what I do, sex tonight almost certainly won't happen.
> 
> This does not make it easier for you. But I share it to let you know that this is not necessarily an abnormal set of circumstances.
> 
> 
> *I don't necessarily want to have sex more than every other day. But it bothers me that I am not allowed to touch him, there is no kissing, or flirting or anything else that could arouse him. I just want more intimacy outside of the bedroom.
> 
> I also would like to have to option open to have sex more than every other day if the mood struck. Such as on anniversaries, or after a romantic date night. *
> 
> 
> Glad to hear this is your attitude. Make clear to him why he is left out in the cold.
> 
> *I will.*
> 
> I seemed to recall that he promised to work on the marital sex issues together. If he is not following through on his promises, it seems reasonable for you to ask him point blank why you are expected to follow through on yours.


I thought about it. But at the same time, I really don't want to ruin his birthday. Call me a sucker, but it is what it is. 

I'll wait and see how this week goes. If he completely will not have anything to do with me, sexually or intimately then I think I will have a hard time trying to be happy about giving him a blow job. Birthday or not.

I'm just confused, if I'm over reacting. We had such a great month. I feel like I am blowing this one bad session out of the water.

But the thing is, it isn't this one session. This has happened too many times to count.

So I don't know.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well fiddle dee dee.


He seems to be the male equivalent to my wife except her schedule is once a week. 

She got mad at me for touching her there outside of sex because I was trying to make her horny. (I thought that was the point and had no idea that horny was a bad thing except for sex day)

As long as he is still giving you oral when he is not interested -I think it needs to be mutual.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> He seems to be the male equivalent to my wife except her schedule is once a week.
> 
> She got mad at me for touching her there outside of sex because I was trying to make her horny. (I thought that was the point and had no idea that horny was a bad thing except for sex day)
> 
> As long as he is still giving you oral when he is not interested -I think it needs to be mutual.



Yeah. I don't understand why feeling aroused is a bad thing? :scratchhead:

I'm sure I will give him a bj on his birthday. He has made a lot of improvement lately.

I don't get your last part though. He doesn't give me oral if he isn't interested? He always gets his too.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh for some reason I was thinking that he had offered to give you oral sex without anything in return at times when he was not in the mood for anything for himself. 

I do think you are right that it is his birthday and he has been making improvement but I also think that is perfectly reasonable that he gives in return in the future.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well fiddle dee dee.
> 
> I'll start with the good news. This past month was great. We had sex 6 times in a row where we both got off and it didn't take forever either. That is is a record for us! Things were going great...
> 
> And now period week is here and everything hits the crapper. As usual.
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't had sex since Saturday. Got rejected Sunday, Monday we were busy. Last night was the last day before period week when I'm "off limits."
> 
> I talked to him about how I hate that sex is so scheduled. He argued and said it wasn't, that we just do it every other day. Yeah, that's a schedule. No amount of flirting, seducing, or talking will get him to have sex if it is not on a "scheduled" day. It bothers me that we can't have a normal sex life. When we just have sex when the feeling is right. It always has to be on his day, on his time.
> 
> *It seems like your need for spontaneous sex is not being met. Does the spontaneous sex make you feel more loved by him? And does the spontaneous sex make you feel more in control - like you can have sex simply by seducing him? From the looks of it here, what you are asking for is to be able to be horny, and touch him to make him horny and have sex. But as it is now, you are pushed off when you approach him to get his motor running. Hum, guess that hurts some too.*
> 
> I tried getting a little frisky last night. Every time I touched him he would slap my hand away, push me away, tell me no, move away from me... etc. "Playfully" he calls it. But it is most definitely not a joke. He basically tells me no then adds a smile on the end or a wink so it doesn't seem like he is being a jerk. But it is still the same rejection.
> 
> It makes me so upset that I can't touch my husband. I'm not always trying to get him to make love to me. I honestly just enjoying touching him. But he absolutely won't let me touch him below the belt unless we are in bed and actively having sex. Sometimes even when we are in bed having sex he will keep his clothes on and/or not let me touch him until it's time for PIV. It makes me crazy!
> 
> He also doesn't usually let me see him naked. He won't sleep naked. When he takes a shower he wears a robe while he is getting dressed. He will put his boxers on under his robe, then take it off to finish getting dressed. How does that make me feel!? I'll beg for him to flash me, but he wont. He even usually turns away when he puts his boxers on. I guess in case the robe opens and I would happen to get a glimpse... What the heck.
> 
> *Perhaps he thinks that any touching will lead to sex. Or for that matter, and exposed shower time or exposure while getting dressed will make you want sex. And if he is not ready for sex, you you will be disappointed. So his defense is to not let you touch him and not watch him. He is hoping to try to keep you calm and not get horny.
> 
> Perhaps you need to have a talk with him to let him know that you enjoy playful stuff like watching him, and touching him with out it leading directly to sex. And that you would be ok to just get all horny and have sex another day. But you enjoy getting all worked up about him. (only if it is true).*
> 
> He gets mad if I peek on him in the shower. He doesn't like to shower together, and if we do there still isn't any touching unless we are getting ready to go have sex.
> 
> We go days without kissing and then he might complain about the kissing, but why would I want to kiss him if he won't let me touch him, or I know it won't lead anywhere. It's like we are kids again and are trying not to get in trouble. he is my husband, dang it, and I should be allowed to touch any part of his body if I want to.
> 
> After he stopped me from touching a few times I scooted away from him on the couch and told him it upset me that he doesn't let me touch him. After an hour I just came out and said, "Aren't you even horny!? We haven't had sex in days." His only reply was a shrug and, "Two days, don't be dramatic. You will probably talk me into having sex with you by Saturday anyway."
> 
> 
> He fell asleep by 8pm. At 9pm he woke up for a minute and said we could have sex if I wanted to. I told him no thanks, that it was no fun when we were sleepy. I did not sleep the night before, so I am exhausted by this point. He started to argue, then was back asleep in about 5 seconds.
> 
> I got up and did the dishes, and went to bed without him. He ended up waking up in the middle of the night and coming to bed.
> 
> Now this morning he was being extra nice. I'm sure because he knows that I am upset. He also was being extra frisky and peeking on me in the shower. I'm sure he is horny. It's cranky time now, so he'll say that I should give him a blow job since we "can't" have sex. haha. Well too bad buster.
> 
> His birthday is Monday, and I have already promised him one then.
> 
> *sigh* Everything that goes up, must come back down.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious - he did not care to have sex with you before you started your monthly, fine. He did not meet your needs, you are under no obligation to meet his THIS WEEK while you are on. Birthday blow job, that's fine. 

You guys have made a lot of progress, do not allow him to slip back into - I don't have to do anything and you have to service me when you can't have sex. No. That's a no go. He meets your needs, you meet his. 

As far as the scheduling - in a perfect world couples are on the same wavelength and just have sex when the mood strikes. I think most couples have to work around each others moods and usually kids and schedules and etc. Having sex every other day was a compromise on his part. That is more than he would request sex left to his own devices, yes? Compromise means neither person gets their way 100% but both can live with it. 

When we can't have things exactly the way we want we must compromise and adapt. 

I'm glad it's been such a good month, though!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Curious - he did not care to have sex with you before you started your monthly, fine. He did not meet your needs, you are under no obligation to meet his THIS WEEK while you are on. Birthday blow job, that's fine.
> 
> You guys have made a lot of progress, do not allow him to slip back into - I don't have to do anything and you have to service me when you can't have sex. No. That's a no go. He meets your needs, you meet his.
> 
> As far as the scheduling - in a perfect world couples are on the same wavelength and just have sex when the mood strikes. I think most couples have to work around each others moods and usually kids and schedules and etc. Having sex every other day was a compromise on his part. That is more than he would request sex left to his own devices, yes? Compromise means neither person gets their way 100% but both can live with it.
> 
> When we can't have things exactly the way we want we must compromise and adapt.
> 
> I'm glad it's been such a good month, though!


Thank you for being so straight to the point. That is what I needed.

I think I am mostly upset because I know he will be asking for relief soon, and I will feel like I have to oblige him. Thank you for reminding me that I don't have to meet his needs if he doesn't take care of mine. That lets off a lot of pressure and resentment.

And your right about the scheduling. I need to remember we are both compromising. which is fair. I just wish we would still get to be intimate non-sexually when we aren't getting ready to have sex.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hoping he warms up to that and much much more! You all are moving in the right direction. Some weeks will be off weeks. As long as the direction is forward - this is something to be happy about.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's been 6 days. 

He hadn't made one single pass at me this entire time. No kisses, no touching. Except my peck on the cheek before work every morning.

My best friend was over last night with her boyfriend and they were all over each other. Holding hands, snuggling, tickling... I was jealous. 

Last night as we were laying on the couch (opposite ends) I told him I wanted to snuggle. He said okay, come on over. I sat up to get ready to crawl into his lap, But he had the computer on his lap and didn't even look up from it, or attempt to move it. So I just laid back down on my spot.

This morning I asked him to snuggle again before he had to leave for work and we did for a few minutes. Then he started touching, then he said we hadn't kissed in forever and missed it. So we started making out. 

He made a comment about how we could probably have sex on Tuesday...

Things lead to another and soon he asked for a blow job. He promised he would take care of my minds later tonight, but I told him no. Then he literately begged. 

To be honest, I felt bad. He had a raging stiffy and had to go to work like that all day. I almost gave in, but I didn't. I remembered I have to go to work everyday horny, even if it's not as noticeable.

He said he can't wait anymore and he is going to ravish me when he got home.

I think most of our problems would be fixed if he was just more horny. When we haven't had sex for a week he acts exactly like I do after 2 days. He is touchy, romantic, kisses, seductive... Everything I want. But only when he is horny, which is like never. 

He also gets a lot harder if it's been a week. TMI? 

He just doesn't seem to think about intimacy at all, unless we haven't done it for several days. By which time I'm crazy. 

:scratchhead:


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't even bother trying to get my wife interested anymore. -she just needs a week to recharge. That is difficult enough to deal with at age 52 but in my twenties it would have been much worse.

I think that you did good, surely all guys like a nice BJ but they should not replace the connection that sex creates just supplement it. He seems to be taking advantage of you in that area and needs to learn.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't feel bad for not blowing him. Seriously, he's not going to be walking around all day with a hard on. It sounds like he's iniating when he knows there is no time to take care of you too. He's done this before if I'm not mistaken? 

For me there's nothing better than seeing my girls eyes get all glassy when she's having an O. So I really don't understand a guy that just doesn't seem to care.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Don't feel bad for not blowing him. Seriously, he's not going to be walking around all day with a hard on. It sounds like he's iniating when he knows there is no time to take care of you too. He's done this before if I'm not mistaken?
> 
> For me there's nothing better than seeing my girls eyes get all glassy when she's having an O. So I really don't understand a guy that just doesn't seem to care.




Yes. He has done this many many times in the past before.

Which I think is one of the reasons I don't even try to initiate kissing anymore. If we kiss then he'll want a blow job and nothing for me. Then I have to turn him down, and we both get upset.

My quick but sad solution for that is to just not kiss him. He doesn't seem to notice much if we go days without kissing, and I know he probably won't start it.

That just feeds the fire why I crave sex though. That is pretty much the only time we kiss or touch. I need it.

He is getting a LOT better about caring about my O. He brought that up this morning though and tried to use it against me. "But I've done so good lately, and gave you an O 6 times in a row."

I really wanted to shake him and tell him I've given him an O hundreds of times in a row now. 

So him taking care of my sexual needs is getting better. But he is still not taking care of my sensual, and intimate needs.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> I don't even bother trying to get my wife interested anymore. -she just needs a week to recharge. That is difficult enough to deal with at age 52 but in my twenties it would have been much worse.
> 
> I think that you did good, surely all guys like a nice BJ but they should not replace the connection that sex creates just supplement it. He seems to be taking advantage of you in that area and needs to learn.


I'll never understand a woman who doesn't like sex. :scratchhead:

But I guess most men on here can't understand a man who doesn't like sex.

I say anyone who doesn't like sex is crazy!  What's not to like?


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I say anyone who doesn't like sex is crazy!  What's not to like?


Amen to that sister. 
It is easy, feels good, almost free, strong scientific evidence that it makes us healthier and increases lifespan, etc. 

It would be like if all the best foods like: cake, chocolate, pasta, steak etc. where also the healthiest foods...

..but still our spouses are choosing to eat broccoli and brussel sprouts and radishes instead.

Maybe the thing to do is to get him excited in the morning right before work, so that he thinks about it during the day.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This morning I asked him to snuggle again before he had to leave for work and we did for a few minutes. Then he started touching, then he said we hadn't kissed in forever and missed it. So we started making out.
> 
> He made a comment about how we could probably have sex on Tuesday...
> 
> Things lead to another and soon he asked for a blow job. He promised he would take care of my minds later tonight, but I told him no. Then he literately begged.
> 
> To be honest, I felt bad. He had a raging stiffy and had to go to work like that all day. I almost gave in, but I didn't. I remembered I have to go to work everyday horny, even if it's not as noticeable.
> 
> He said he can't wait anymore and he is going to ravish me when he got home.



Actually this sounds like very good progress. You initiated the snuggle, and when things heated up you stood your ground. And tonight you guys will have a good time relieving each other :smthumbup:

So, don't worry about him going to work horny, that is a good thing. Anticipation is a great way to really build up the energy. If you had caved in and given him the BJ, you would be disappointed now, and for the next several days as he would not be interested. But now, he is ready to go, and will attack you tonight .. way to go!

I thought this was your cranky week? Already done?


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'll never understand a woman who doesn't like sex. :scratchhead:
> 
> But I guess most men on here can't understand a man who doesn't like sex.
> 
> I say anyone who doesn't like sex is crazy!  What's not to like?


Let's see - you get to make the person you love the most in the world feel good, you get to be close and feel wanted, and you get an orgasm in the process. Why wouldn't you want all of that, all of the time?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Actually this sounds like very good progress. You initiated the snuggle, and when things heated up you stood your ground. And tonight you guys will have a good time relieving each other :smthumbup:
> 
> So, don't worry about him going to work horny, that is a good thing. Anticipation is a great way to really build up the energy. If you had caved in and given him the BJ, you would be disappointed now, and for the next several days as he would not be interested. But now, he is ready to go, and will attack you tonight .. way to go!
> 
> I thought this was your cranky week? Already done?


Your right. It's definitely progress on my end. I'm getting much better at not backing down. We both end up getting what we want this way. He pouts for a bit, but he will have just as much fun later than he would have this morning.

Heck no I'm not done with cranky week. I'll still be drowning until at least Monday or Tuesday. 

The fact is he is just so horny he is willing to deal with it. :smthumbup: Which is good progress on his end. 

We probably won't do PIV because that is still pushing his limits. But he will do manual on me, and he will get a blow job. Which is fine for both of us.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



last worthless evening said:


> Let's see - you get to make the person you love the most in the world feel good, you get to be close and feel wanted, and you get an orgasm in the process. Why wouldn't you want all of that, all of the time?


:iagree:

Exactly how I feel. Who in their right mind wouldn't want that?


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you ever had your hubby take a look here and see the number of guys who wish they were in his boat and how lucky he is? Just a thought.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



last worthless evening said:


> Have you ever had your hubby take a look here and see the number of guys who wish they were in his boat and how lucky he is? Just a thought.


I don't want to show him this site and "blow my cover" so to speak. I do not think he would want me to be posting about our sex life online, and I would lose my only source of advice.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's understandable, but also somewhat of a shame. It might help him realize how incredibly lucky he is! I'd give my left......well whatever, to have a wonderful wife who wanted to share as much love, affection, and yes, sex, as you do with your husband.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Today is his birthday. 

I surprised him with a blow job when he got out of the shower this morning, and tonight we are going to cook our favorite dinner and relax at home. Sounds like a good day.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yay, have a great day


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Today is his birthday.
> 
> I surprised him with a blow job when he got out of the shower this morning, and tonight we are going to cook our favorite dinner and relax at home. Sounds like a good day.


Hope you both get an explosive birthday present :smthumbup:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Nothing else happened on his birthday. Not even a kiss. 

His work has been busy, so he has been staying over a couple hours including on his birthday.

We got into it again last night. We talked about having sex but then he just fell asleep on the couch, as usual. He would wake up and say, "go ahead and go shower." Which is my cue to get ready to have sex.

I'm so tired of it though. We don't kiss or touch at all for days, then after he is asleep one evening he can wake up and tell me to go shower. Then all the sudden I am suppose to just be in the mood and raring to go, then we lazily have sex. 

I don't want lazy sex. I want passionate sex. It's hard for me to switch to sexy mode after watching him nap on the couch for hours. I hate cold starting, when we haven't even kissed for days.

It's awkward crawling into bed, and one of us having to start the kissing, and pretending like we are all hot and bothered. I'm so over it.

Yes I am horny, yes I crave sex crazily. But this crap just isn't cutting it for me anymore.

I told him no, I didn't like having sex after he was already sleeping. Then he got mad and went into another room. 

Eventually I just sucked it up and went and showered. Then we awkwardly sat in bed, and he started kissing me. I just wasn't into it. I only gave short light kisses. We didn't talk or anything. We went straight to doggy style, and honestly I was glad I didn't have to look at him, and pretend to be into it. 

I started going, and he lost it. And for some reason he just stopped rubbing me. Right in the middle of mine. He usually keeps going until I ask him to stop when I'm finished. It was really strange. I guess all that energy was built up, and had to get out. I laid in bed, and my body twitched for several minutes afterwards. Like strong convulsions. :scratchhead:

Then we rolled over and went to sleep. 

He is doing much better about making my orgasms a priority. But we still haven't figured out the intimacy issue, or the lazy sex. Sigh.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think that it is always going to be somewhat mechanical for him and that will have to either be good enough or not.

If you can establish good habits for him than you may not notice so much that he is just doing things because they are things he needs to do.

Maybe you need to put on his todo list: kiss and hug at least twice a day morning and evening.

"Like strong convulsions"
A few years ago I started to get Thoracic diaphragm contractions after sex or sometimes just thinking about sex. I don't know why.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi Curious. Thanks for the concern during my banishment BTW. I saw that thread and was touched beyond words.

He is doing better. He has made improvements. So you're going in the right direction.

First, why not make a habit of a quick shower each night? The shower indicates you're available for sex. The lack of shower indicates you are NOT.

Second, why doesn't her show non erotic affection? You need that, as any woman does. Yes, I can see a partner is concerned that showing affection might lead to sex when sex isn't actually on the table. Where does affection stop and erotic affection begin. If you're HD, a pat on the knee can get your worked up. This is something you two need to communicate about. Maybe you each need a non verbal cue that says sex is on the table and sex is not on the table? That way if you both know sex isn't on the table you're both free to be as affectionate as you want without fear of giving the wrong signals...

Ask him why he stopped last night. Could have been a simple experiment to see how you reacted. I know I've done that with Mr pink a few times.

It sounds like your man needs to learn to handle stress better. Work wears him out and that is no way to live your life. He needs to find balance.

Sex can't always bee super energetic complete with wipe out orgasms. But as long as there is *enough* of the kind of sex and affection you each want and need, those simple maintenance sex sessions are not burdensome or worrisome? Just an off night...


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, is there a reason you feel you need to have sex with him when you know the outcome is not going to be what you want?

The other day you denying him in the morning seemed to really do it for him.

I am just concerned that he still feels like you are a sure thing whether he is going to put 2% in or 100% and either way he's going to get his. 

After a super good month with my H he has started to take a turn for the lazy again. However I anticipated this and had already put a lot of thought into how I was going to handle it. Which, of course, doesn't piss me off any less.

I'm just pointing out that, married to men who would rather be lazy about sex, this is going to be an ongoing issue for both of us. It's not something that is just going to disappear overnight. Hopefully in time - I mean, there is always hope anyway.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes miss Scarlett keep the hope alive! Mr. Pink could easily and rightly be described as lazy, except in the sack. Since October of 2013 he has steadily improved. He has had lots of backslides too but once the back sliding is noted, he picks up where he left off. And now his back slides barely make a ripple. 

Once you get far enough up the mountain, a step or two back no longer negates the progress you've made.

Hang in there women!


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Looking back over the past year I could see a definite pattern of 6 weeks of really good sex and then sliding into a slump that would last 2-3 months. Only this time I'm confronting the slump long before it gets to 2-3 months. Probably won't be the last time either. 

Confront, not in a whiny way, don't fake enthusiasm, reward good behavior with spontaneous blow jobs within 24 hours. This is Miss Scarlett's slump plan.


----------



## kitty2013

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I gave up on begging for sex from a LD husband. Having quick sex once or twice every few months is not enough for me. I have absolutely zero sex for the last two months. It is not a surprise for me. I am so ready to shut myself down emotionally.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Nothing else happened on his birthday. Not even a kiss. *Bummer*
> 
> His work has been busy, so he has been staying over a couple hours including on his birthday. *Cause of bummer*
> 
> We got into it again last night. We talked about having sex but then he just fell asleep on the couch, as usual. He would wake up and say, "go ahead and go shower." Which is my cue to get ready to have sex.
> 
> I'm so tired of it though. We don't kiss or touch at all for days, then after he is asleep one evening he can wake up and tell me to go shower. Then all the sudden I am suppose to just be in the mood and raring to go, then we lazily have sex. *Hum, sounds like you are his sex toy. *
> 
> I don't want lazy sex. I want passionate sex. It's hard for me to switch to sexy mode after watching him nap on the couch for hours. I hate cold starting, when we haven't even kissed for days.
> 
> It's awkward crawling into bed, and one of us having to start the kissing, and pretending like we are all hot and bothered. I'm so over it.
> 
> Yes I am horny, yes I crave sex crazily. But this crap just isn't cutting it for me anymore.
> 
> I told him no, I didn't like having sex after he was already sleeping. Then he got mad and went into another room.
> 
> Eventually I just sucked it up and went and showered. Then we awkwardly sat in bed, and he started kissing me. I just wasn't into it. I only gave short light kisses. We didn't talk or anything. We went straight to doggy style, and honestly I was glad I didn't have to look at him, and pretend to be into it.
> 
> I started going, and he lost it. And for some reason he just stopped rubbing me. Right in the middle of mine. He usually keeps going until I ask him to stop when I'm finished. It was really strange. I guess all that energy was built up, and had to get out. I laid in bed, and my body twitched for several minutes afterwards. Like strong convulsions. :scratchhead: *So while he was having his O, he let yours slip away? :scratchhead:*
> 
> Then we rolled over and went to sleep.
> 
> He is doing much better about making my orgasms a priority. But we still haven't figured out the intimacy issue, or the lazy sex. Sigh.


Men tend to have higher T levels in the morning (a doctor may even tell you to get tested in the morning). So after his "nap" his T levels may be higher and he is more driven. But you on the other hand want a slower start, and a start that includes touching and kissing hours and hours earlier to get your motor running. I wonder if he knows just how important the kissing and hugging is? I also wonder if he knows that kissing and hugging do not necessarily have to lead to sex immediately. In any case, he is missing this. And if he wants to make you happy he is going to have to take a lesson, learn, and make an effort to avoid the "kissing / touching drought" that you don't enjoy at all. I know it is particularly difficult to tell him to kiss you and hug you because when he responds it does not feel genuine.

Just like AP says, all sex is not necessarily passionate. Every time is different for me, and it is probably different for you too. As they say, your mileage may vary. This was just one of the encounters that was "not so good." The circumstances that led up to this foreshadowed the outcome. Perhaps next time you will react differently and postpone sex for better sex later.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Hi Curious. Thanks for the concern during my banishment BTW. I saw that thread and was touched beyond words.
> 
> He is doing better. He has made improvements. So you're going in the right direction.
> 
> First, why not make a habit of a quick shower each night? The shower indicates you're available for sex. The lack of shower indicates you are NOT.
> 
> Second, why doesn't her show non erotic affection? You need that, as any woman does. Yes, I can see a partner is concerned that showing affection might lead to sex when sex isn't actually on the table. Where does affection stop and erotic affection begin. If you're HD, a pat on the knee can get your worked up. This is something you two need to communicate about. Maybe you each need a non verbal cue that says sex is on the table and sex is not on the table? That way if you both know sex isn't on the table you're both free to be as affectionate as you want without fear of giving the wrong signals...
> 
> Ask him why he stopped last night. Could have been a simple experiment to see how you reacted. I know I've done that with Mr pink a few times.
> 
> It sounds like your man needs to learn to handle stress better. Work wears him out and that is no way to live your life. He needs to find balance.
> 
> Sex can't always bee super energetic complete with wipe out orgasms. But as long as there is *enough* of the kind of sex and affection you each want and need, those simple maintenance sex sessions are not burdensome or worrisome? Just an off night...


Your welcome!

I have no idea why he doesn't show affection. Probably he is worried about giving me the wrong signals. But I have been very good about not getting worked up or asking for sex if we be intimate. So he has no excuse. 

Works does not wear him out. He loves his job. I think he is just lazy, and likes to lay around, which then makes him fall asleep. 

I don't expect sex to be amazing passionate sex every time. I know that is not realistic and I'm okay with that. But I also don't want to have to get myself all psyched up every time by myself, no kissing or affection before. I just want some flirting or touching every once in a while.  

I do apologize for my whiny attitude, and my rant. It's been a crappy and stressful week, outside of the bedroom.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Curious, is there a reason you feel you need to have sex with him when you know the outcome is not going to be what you want?
> 
> The other day you denying him in the morning seemed to really do it for him.
> 
> I am just concerned that he still feels like you are a sure thing whether he is going to put 2% in or 100% and either way he's going to get his.
> 
> After a super good month with my H he has started to take a turn for the lazy again. However I anticipated this and had already put a lot of thought into how I was going to handle it. Which, of course, doesn't piss me off any less.
> 
> I'm just pointing out that, married to men who would rather be lazy about sex, this is going to be an ongoing issue for both of us. It's not something that is just going to disappear overnight. Hopefully in time - I mean, there is always hope anyway.


I shouldn't have changed my mind and had sex last night. I really have been much better. But I hadn't had real sex in 10 days and I was getting desperate.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I shouldn't have changed my mind and had sex last night. I really have been much better. But I hadn't had real sex in 10 days and I was getting desperate.


Don't beat yourself up over it. That is part of the problem with being the HD partner. Even if the LD partner is only half-hearted about it, it is hard to turn it down and I think they know it. If you are "starving" you probably aren't going to turn down even a moldy piece of bread - so the LD partner can "get away" with being lazy or clearly just accommodating. Sometimes comes down to being a power issue. Do you see other power struggle issues in your relationship?


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *sigh* I wish I could just inject my husband with some super strength viagra when he's sleeping.


I'm late in coming into this thread, but I'm working my way through it and reading all the posts to catch up. My, you really have been going through an ordeal. I really feel for you Curious Wife - you are one strong girl to put up with all this. 

About this "I wish I could just inject my husband with some super strength viagra when he's sleeping"....

You could try a natural herbal supplement called Horny Goat Weed. I know, its a funny name - there's a reason for it:smthumbup:

Also marketed under its botanical name "Empedium". Available in most health food stores. When taken, it really does make guys (and ladies too!) more horny. Maybe see if he's willing to try it? If he cares about your happiness, I dont see why he should say no. Its completely safe, and its not an 'old guy' type of supplement by any means - a lot of young guys take it just for the fun of it. Dosage recommendations vary, but I would say in his case, since the problem seems rather extreme, taking it every day at the max dosage might be in order. Worth a try anyway, just to see what it might do for him, and its quite cheap - depending on where you buy, and what brand, it can be like $6 for 30 - 60 pills. If he's not even willing to try something like this, which is completely natural and entirely safe (research it and see for yourself), then I'd really question how much he really cares about how this is making you feel. Havent finished the whole thread yet, only halfway through, but he does sound quite selfish and ignorant (though I agree it doesnt seem like he means to be that way....). Hope things get better for you.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Hoosier said:


> Curious: Just now read thru your thread. Did not read it all, but enough to want to point out the following:
> 
> 1. I think you need to rethink the "he isn't gay" idea. While it is very possible you are correct, that he isn't, he sure shows a lot of the signs. His job does not disqualify him, being a manly man doesn't either.
> 2. At the very LEAST he is a VERY SELFISH S.O.B. The only time I have read where he did anything FOR you, was when if he didn't HE was going to lose something. A man that loves his woman wants to please her. I myself enjoy pleasuring my woman a lot of the times more than getting pleasure myself. Don't get me wrong, I love having an O, but always make sure "she goes first" that is love, that is attention. To only be about "how about a bj" shows a shallowness, a callousness that is foreign to anything I have ever felt in a loving relationship.
> 3. I wonder if he has a medical problem, you could find out, have an answer to your questions, except for the first line in #2.
> 4. What your whole problem boils down to is, "He has no control over you, except what you give him." YOU allow what is happening, plain and simple. All these give it, take it away, games you have been doing are NEVER going to get you what you want, because he KNOWS you are going to give him what he wants because, "first line of #2".
> Your only real option is to improve yourself. As for "I cant afford IC" that's BS. Where there is a will there is a way. Until you "grow some balls" you are never going to move forward. I feel for you, I really do. You sound like a great woman, who only wants what should be freely given. Your problem is you have hooked up with the wrong guy, and don't have the guts to change....you. He knows this as well, which is WHY HE MARRIED YOU. What ever you do, DO NOT HAVE ANY CHILDREN WITH HIM, until you are sure this is how you want to live your life. Once kids come into the picture, you will loose all leverage, the misery will REALLY start up.
> Continue this thread, but do yourself a favor. Read your posts from beginning to end, over and over. And next year when nothing has changed, ask yourself why this is? Maybe something will click for you, I sure hope so. But if it doesn't, don't blame him, blame the person who made that choice.....YOU.
> Sorry to be so tough on you. But reading thru this has made me angry. Angry at him for treating a good woman this way, angry that people allow this to happen to them. I sincerely will be adding you to my prayers. Good luck to you.



On the above :iagree:

As I said, I am coming into this thread late in the game and am doing some catching up here, so sorry for being a little behind on all this. But Curious Wife... if you could only see this entire thread of yours through the eyes of an objective 3rd party observer.... I know I am not alone when I say it is literally painful to read what this man is putting you through. In my view, this goes beyond sex. A man who knows what love is -real, genuine LOVE - could not treat you this way. I mean, the signs go beyond just the sex issues - the way he carries on in public with the woman you had the disturbing dream about.... what LOVING husband would do that to his wife? Reading that breaks my heart (as do many of your other posts). Sweetheart, this is not what love looks like. Please don't be mad at me for speaking honestly.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

justfabulous, I agree, reading through CW's post paints a pretty bad picture. However if you read through you will see that there is some progress. She has spent a lot of effort on communication, and has improved her situation. She is getting more of what she wants. But there is still some ways to go.

But I really have to agree that there are times when I just want to shake him and tell him off. The exposing a dream to somebody else is already a No No, and then to tease about it (gads). And making her feel not very sexy (how manipulative and childish is that?). Yup, he needs a wake up call to understand some of these things.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



last worthless evening said:


> Don't beat yourself up over it. That is part of the problem with being the HD partner. Even if the LD partner is only half-hearted about it, it is hard to turn it down and I think they know it. If you are "starving" you probably aren't going to turn down even a moldy piece of bread - so the LD partner can "get away" with being lazy or clearly just accommodating. Sometimes comes down to being a power issue. Do you see other power struggle issues in your relationship?


Yes. Sometimes I can't help it even when I know I am just getting his scraps.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> I'm late in coming into this thread, but I'm working my way through it and reading all the posts to catch up. My, you really have been going through an ordeal. I really feel for you Curious Wife - you are one strong girl to put up with all this.
> 
> About this "I wish I could just inject my husband with some super strength viagra when he's sleeping"....
> 
> You could try a natural herbal supplement called Horny Goat Weed. I know, its a funny name - there's a reason for it:smthumbup:
> 
> Also marketed under its botanical name "Empedium". Available in most health food stores. When taken, it really does make guys (and ladies too!) more horny. Maybe see if he's willing to try it? If he cares about your happiness, I dont see why he should say no. Its completely safe, and its not an 'old guy' type of supplement by any means - a lot of young guys take it just for the fun of it. Dosage recommendations vary, but I would say in his case, since the problem seems rather extreme, taking it every day at the max dosage might be in order. Worth a try anyway, just to see what it might do for him, and its quite cheap - depending on where you buy, and what brand, it can be like $6 for 30 - 60 pills. If he's not even willing to try something like this, which is completely natural and entirely safe (research it and see for yourself), then I'd really question how much he really cares about how this is making you feel. Havent finished the whole thread yet, only halfway through, but he does sound quite selfish and ignorant (though I agree it doesnt seem like he means to be that way....). Hope things get better for you.


We've talked about it before. He absolutely refuses to try anything kind of supplement, or vitamin, or anything.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Here I am confused again. :scratchhead:

Last night we talked some more, and when how he always rejects me was brought up he said and I quote, *"I have never told you no or rejected you. I have never said no to sex."*



I about fell out of my chair. I was shocked, and confused. I told him he must be smoking crack because he tells me no most of the time. Then we argued about it, and he told me to bring up one time where he rejected me. Of course I couldn't come up with a good memory at the time. 

I told him how about every time I am on my period and you tell me no. He said, "that doesn't count because I don't like having sex on your period." 

:scratchhead: Ummm. How does that not count. He is the one saying no.

So I said how about when I ask the day after we have sex, and you always tell me no. He said, "that doesn't count either because if we have sex two days in the row then you might get sore, and I'm bored."



At this point I was pretty upset and I got up to walk away and cool off and said, "Well sorry I'm so boring." Then of course he was like, "well it's not exactly boring." 

"That's not what you JUST said."

After I came back we talked about it more. I said, "so basically you never tell me no, if it follows all your rules and falls on a day when your in the mood." 

Then he told me that sex was always up to me, and I always got to choose when we had it, and I was the one controlling everything. 

Of course I argued, "Then how come I always have to ask to have sex, then you get to decide if we have it or not."

He just told me not to ask then. So I told him I was never asking again. 

I think he is living in some fantasy world. Somehow he truly believes that he never rejects me, that I am the one who is bossy about sex and picks when we have it. He also thinks it is boring.  Great.

I just don't understand. Maybe I am the one with the problem? Crazy people never know they are crazy. Now I just can't decide who is the crazy one, me or him.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, when I was with my XW she would claim we have sex "all the time." Well to me once every week or two isn't exactly "all the time." But to low drive people I really think they don't think about the times in between. It's not a priority to them and so it feels like you just got done doing that, why would you want to do it again?

I know your H didn't exactly say we do it all the time, but I hear the same meaning in the words.

Think about the things YOU would say "I do that all the time." Dishes? Cooking? Cleaning house? Driving kids different places? My point is, I would never say that about something I absolutely LOVED doing. My X never would have said that about eating cheese cake! If you like something, you can't get enough. If something is a chore, then you "do it all the time."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> CW, when I was with my XW she would claim we have sex "all the time." Well to me once every week or two isn't exactly "all the time." But to low drive people I really think they don't think about the times in between. It's not a priority to them and so it feels like you just got done doing that, why would you want to do it again?
> 
> I know your H didn't exactly say we do it all the time, but I hear the same meaning in the words.
> 
> Think about the things YOU would say "I do that all the time." Dishes? Cooking? Cleaning house? Driving kids different places? My point is, I would never say that about something I absolutely LOVED doing. My X never would have said that about eating cheese cake! If you like something, you can't get enough. If something is a chore, then you "do it all the time."


I hadn't thought about that. Maybe he just truly forgets all the times he rejects me. But I just can't see how. It's all the stinking time.

What really bothers me though, was that he was getting pretty upset that I was "claiming" that he rejects me all the time. Like I was lying or something, or trying to make him sound like a bad person. I just don't understand how he could deny something that is so true, and plainly in his face.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



RandomWife99 said:


> My husband has also said that he never rejects me even though he's admitted that I want sex more often than him. After I tell him that's ridiculous he says he was just kidding. Then the next time it comes up he says the same thing again. I don't get it. The only thing I can think of is they don't remember because those times aren't important t them. We remember because of the emotional effect of being rejected.
> 
> My husband seems to unfortunately been having more in common with yours since i've tried to get him to initiate more. The only thing he's initiated is asking for unreciprocated blow jobs when he's too lazy for full sex. He knows i'm the one who wants more sex, so how does it make sense to introduce more blow jobs for him, which means less sex for me? Neither of our husbands have ever given us stand alone oral.


Exactly. He knows and says I want sex more than him. Sometimes... So doesn't that mean he is admitting that he does tell me no.

Sometimes he claims he wants it just as much as me, which is bologna. He never chases me for sex.

I don't understand the blow job logic either. If I want more sex, how does giving him a blow job help me or take care of my needs in any way?

Our men need smacked.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Our men need smacked.


Yes they do!

I think it just doesn't register to them that they are saying no. Because if they don't want it you couldn't really be serious that you do, right? Another thing is, they do know, they just don't want to admit it. Deny the problem and it will go away. Like your husband saying certain days don't count. Well of course they count! Even if you don't try anything, it's still an implied no. It's self absorbed, I'm all that matters, everyone thinks and feels like I do kind of thinking. My solution was finally divorce. I tried talking. I tried MMSL. I tried making it clear what I needed. I tried helping around the house more. In the end none of that made any difference. 

After 10 years of this you're going to be very broken and insecure. I hope you find the solutions I couldn't. 

If you need someone to come kick some sense into these guys let me know.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> After 10 years of this you're going to be very broken and insecure. I hope you find the solutions I couldn't.
> 
> If you need someone to come kick some sense into these guys let me know.


I honestly wish I had a councilor or a mentor, someone who could talk some sense into my man. 

He does NOT think he has any problem, and that we are completely normal. If I try to tell him different he doesn't believe me, and I am the one with a problem.

He NEEDS to hear it from a 3rd party person.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well, in looking over your past post, you do remark that you are rejected a lot. You make it pretty clear that sex starts by you initiating, he deciding if he is in the mood and it is within his rules, then if everything is ok, you guys have sex. And if he takes too long to get into the mood it is a mood killer for you (why have sex with somebody that is not into it?)

To boot, he is not into touching and playful stuff .. the kind of stuff that gets the mood set. Personally I see this is as a form of rejection. Why push the hand of somebody you love off of you? Why? :scratchhead: 

And he also puts you down by saying that you don't orgasm fast enough etc. This is also a form of rejection. "Hay, I don't want to have sex with you because it is too much work for me to get you off." Oh, and "hay, your are on your period, so give me a few blow jobs." If you ask for pleasure and don't get it is is still rejecting your need (even if he gets his needs met).

Your thread is filled with items like you initiating, he refuses. Then he comes around and is all affectionate (note you are on your period, and trying the tampon method). And when you start to make out, he asks for a blow job and then goes to visit his friends. Leaving you ... completely unsatisfied.

Well, from your thread her, I see you initiating a lot more than he does. Rejection does not have to follow the "I want sex" with a "no" response. Couples should get to know one another well enough that showering and putting on sexy lingerie and touching him should be pretty clear that you want sex now.

Perhaps you should try a week or two of bluntly asking for sex, and counting the number of times he finds an excuse to refuse you. Then have the discussion again with the facts from the last week or two. Well, I suppose that he would have some set of excuses for each one of the refusals.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Perhaps you should try a week or two of bluntly asking for sex, and counting the number of times he finds an excuse to refuse you. Then have the discussion again with the facts from the last week or two. Well, I suppose that he would have some set of excuses for each one of the refusals.


Maybe you could keep a journal - of all the times you initiate, get rejected, when he initiates, etc. and present it to him after a month or so. Maybe if he sees it in black and white, it will finally sink in.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Well, in looking over your past post, you do remark that you are rejected a lot. You make it pretty clear that sex starts by you initiating, he deciding if he is in the mood and it is within his rules, then if everything is ok, you guys have sex. And if he takes too long to get into the mood it is a mood killer for you (why have sex with somebody that is not into it?)
> 
> To boot, he is not into touching and playful stuff .. the kind of stuff that gets the mood set. Personally I see this is as a form of rejection. Why push the hand of somebody you love off of you? Why? :scratchhead:
> 
> And he also puts you down by saying that you don't orgasm fast enough etc. This is also a form of rejection. "Hay, I don't want to have sex with you because it is too much work for me to get you off." Oh, and "hay, your are on your period, so give me a few blow jobs." If you ask for pleasure and don't get it is is still rejecting your need (even if he gets his needs met).
> 
> Your thread is filled with items like you initiating, he refuses. Then he comes around and is all affectionate (note you are on your period, and trying the tampon method). And when you start to make out, he asks for a blow job and then goes to visit his friends. Leaving you ... completely unsatisfied.
> 
> Well, from your thread her, I see you initiating a lot more than he does. Rejection does not have to follow the "I want sex" with a "no" response. Couples should get to know one another well enough that showering and putting on sexy lingerie and touching him should be pretty clear that you want sex now.
> 
> Perhaps you should try a week or two of bluntly asking for sex, and counting the number of times he finds an excuse to refuse you. Then have the discussion again with the facts from the last week or two. Well, I suppose that he would have some set of excuses for each one of the refusals.



Thank you for this. Your post helps me feel sane again. That I'm not just crazy. 

Your right. Not only does he reject me verbally, when he says no. There is a LOT of rejection without actually saying no to actual sex. Every time I try to snuggle, or kiss, or touch he pushes me away, or does something similar.

Even last night after this whole conversation we had, I crawled on top of him and straddled him. (This was after he said it was okay if we had sex, mind you. So he has given me the green light, I followed his stupid rules.) I tried to kiss him and he turned away from me. I tried again, and he gave me one little peck. So I crawled off and went back to my own side of the couch. Then after he completely ignored me for another 10 minutes while watching tv, hes like, "Okay. Lets go have sex now."

I take that as rejection. I guess I'm not important enough to stop watching tv. He has to finish his show before he will even kiss me back. 

I just want to be a priority, dang it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Maybe you could keep a journal - of all the times you initiate, get rejected, when he initiates, etc. and present it to him after a month or so. Maybe if he sees it in black and white, it will finally sink in.


I seriously thought about this! I think this is a very good idea.

I keep going back and forth though.

I can't decide if I just want to quit initiating, and stop acting interested in sex at all. Or if I want to bluntly ask, and keep a record of his responses. 

We had such a good last month. But I can tell deep down we are still having the same problems. I just can't get it out of the back of my mind that he thinks sex is boring with me, and a chore. Especially after he said it was boring yesterday. That just fueled the fire of my insecurities. Every day I feel less and less like having sex with him. I'm loosing my desire.

The last couple times we had sex I wasn't myself. I wasn't enjoying it, and I was "pushing through it." I don't want it to be like that. I fantasize about having sex with my husband, but when it comes to actually having sex, it disappoints me. 

Maybe we need to take a sexual break for a while, while I reflect on my feelings, and what needs to change.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



RandomWife99 said:


> I'm at exactly this point too. It's nice to know we're not alone, but nothing seems to actually help the situation. I've completely lost my ability to get aroused now. I'll be thinking about having sex with him all day, then he gets home and acts all distant and I lose my desire instantly. Or we start foreplay and there just isn't any passion or momentum and I can't get aroused. In fact the opposite happens, I start out more aroused and get less aroused as we start. I'm at the point where i've stopped initiating entirely and he's asked if I want to have sex a couple times or said we 'should have it' since it's been awhile, but there's no enthusiasm from him so it doesn't go anywhere. It does get worse the longer this dynamic goes on. I'm choosing to go with the 'sexual break' route for now.


:iagree:

That's me. I think about him all day, and I'm so excited to have sex. Then I get home and he is asleep on the couch, and completely ignores me for hours, or pushes me away when I try to snuggle and all my built up desires fades quickly. 

Then later me might suddenly decide he finally wants to have sex now, and then I have trouble getting my motor running again. 

*I'm at the point where i've stopped initiating entirely and he's asked if I want to have sex a couple times or said we 'should have it' since it's been awhile, but there's no enthusiasm from him so it doesn't go anywhere.*

This happens a lot in my marriage. If I don't bring it up he may say we should have sex, or ask if i want sex, but he doesn't show enthusiasm or act on it. He might bring it up in conversation, but I have to be the one who gets it going and I HATE it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, how long have you been married and what are your ages? Sorry if this info is already in your thread somewhere...................


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The problem is the same. You need assertiveness training. He doesn't know he is rejecting you because half the time you aren't assertive enough for him to even know you were initiating.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> The problem is the same. You need assertiveness training. He doesn't know he is rejecting you because half the time you aren't assertive enough for him to even know you were initiating.


I disagree. I don't think he can use this as an excuse anymore.

I have gotten a LOT better at being more assertive. How can he not know if I am initiating if I say, "Can we have sex?" or "Let's have sex."

There is really only one way to interpret that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, how long have you been married and what are your ages? Sorry if this info is already in your thread somewhere...................


We are both in our early twenties. 

We have been married about a year and a half.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OMG, you should still be in the honeymoon phase!! I feel for you Curious. Honestly, I know everybody keeps saying your husband is low drive, but until your thread, I'd NEVER heard of a 20 something year old man that was low drive!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Here are some further assertive actions you could/should take:

*keep a journal of all sex activity including who initiates and when, when you have sex or one way sex, if he rejected you or not, and your periods. also journal about each of these talks you have, what was discussed and what actions steps you each agreed to take

*read the book Intimacy & Desire by Schnarch

*read the book The Sex Starved Wife

*leave all sex books you are reading laying around where he will see them, also discuss them with him and tell them what parts apply to you and him

*find a sex therapist and set up a consult and tell your H that he and you are definitely going, set an appointment and don't let him refuse to go. if he doesn't go, you go alone because you need the support.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Here are some further assertive actions you could/should take:
> 
> *keep a journal of all sex activity including who initiates and when, when you have sex or one way sex, if he rejected you or not, and your periods. also journal about each of these talks you have, what was discussed and what actions steps you each agreed to take.


I thought that was what this topic was for. The LD Husband Journal. 

I will look into the books. Money is tight now, but I will get them when I can. 

The councilor is a no go.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious...based on literally 1,000's of stories I've read about marriages like yours, IF YOU DO NOT GO TO COUNSELING I can tell you what is going to happen:

*he won't change, you will continue to be unhappy

*after years and years of this, you will end up very depressed and despondent. he likely won't change from his current state (meaning, it will not make him depressed and despondent).

*eventually you will be ready to jump off a cliff, so you will initiate a separation. he will cry "what? you would leave me over sex?" and you will say "yes, I've been tell you this all along". he will say "but I never realized it was that big of a deal". you will say "how could you not know? i have brought it up weekly for the past X number of years?"

*he will convince you to give him one more chance which you do....and he still won't step it up.

*you will file for divorce, heartbroken and years lost that you can never get back.



Are you still sure there is no way you can go to counseling?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious...based on literally 1,000's of stories I've read about marriages like yours, IF YOU DO NOT GO TO COUNSELING I can tell you what is going to happen:
> 
> *he won't change, you will continue to be unhappy
> 
> *after years and years of this, you will end up very depressed and despondent. he likely won't change from his current state (meaning, it will not make him depressed and despondent).
> 
> *eventually you will be ready to jump off a cliff, so you will initiate a separation. he will cry "what? you would leave me over sex?" and you will say "yes, I've been tell you this all along". he will say "but I never realized it was that big of a deal". you will say "how could you not know? i have brought it up weekly for the past X number of years?"
> 
> *he will convince you to give him one more chance which you do....and he still won't step it up.
> 
> *you will file for divorce, heartbroken and years lost that you can never get back.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still sure there is no way you can go to counseling?


I will look into it. Honestly I'm scared.

I'm scared of what he will think, I'm scared he will be upset. I'm scared he will look at me different, or think I'm some sex addict.

I have no idea how I would find a counselor in my very rural area.

I'm scared to share my feeling and personal life with something in "real life."

I would feel much more comfortable if he would go with me. But it's hard to even approach the subject because he sees nothing wrong and get thinks I'm crazy. He would literately laugh at me if I bring up a counselor again.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You know those movies where one person is swapped with another? Can't think of an example ("Big maybe?) Anyway what we need is for all the LD men, married to HD women, to have their sex drive switched with the HD men married to LD women, and so on. Would solve a lot of problems, lol.
CW - I don't believe that he "doesn't know" that he rejects you. He knows. I still believe that for whatever reason in many instances, it is a control issue. The LD partner controls the sexual relationship, if not the entire relationship. Although not a perfect analogy, how would your husband feel if he was only allowed to eat when you wanted to eat, could only eat what you wanted to eat and could only enjoy eating, it you enjoyed it at the same time? Throw in feelings of lack of "worth" from not being desired, and I'd bet he wouldn't like that one bit. And would it make it better if you said, oh gee, I didn't know you got hungry when you didn't eat for a long time?


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will look into it. Honestly I'm scared.
> 
> I'm scared of what he will think, I'm scared he will be upset. I'm scared he will look at me different, or think I'm some sex addict.
> 
> I have no idea how I would find a counselor in my very rural area.
> 
> I'm scared to share my feeling and personal life with something in "real life."
> 
> I would feel much more comfortable if he would go with me. But it's hard to even approach the subject because he sees nothing wrong and get thinks I'm crazy. He would literately laugh at me if I bring up a counselor again.


All of these things still point to the need for assertiveness training. Honestly sweetie...you are going to have to do some real WORK to get anywhere with this.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I hadn't thought about that. Maybe he just truly forgets all the times he rejects me. But I just can't see how. It's all the stinking time.
> 
> What really bothers me though, was that he was getting pretty upset that I was "claiming" that he rejects me all the time. Like I was lying or something, or trying to make him sound like a bad person. I just don't understand how he could deny something that is so true, and plainly in his face.


Of course he's going to deny it. He's going to deny it because it's emasculating for a man to hear (even if it's true). He doesn't want to admit that his wife wants sex more than him, in our society that's super shameful for a guy. Remember we are conditioned to think *men want sex ALL the time*, so if we don't live up to it it's like admitting to erectile dysfunction. 

Also, if he said sex is boring why don't you try not to storm off with hurt feelings (I get it's hard to hear someone you love say that, but if you want to make progress this is the way) and instead ask him why he finds sex boring? And how you two can work on the problem.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Maybe you could keep a journal - of all the times you initiate, get rejected, when he initiates, etc. and present it to him after a month or so. Maybe if he sees it in black and white, it will finally sink in.


No, that would just upset him. I mean seriously, you're going to keep a journal of your sex life? That's kind of insulting.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thank you for this. Your post helps me feel sane again. That I'm not just crazy.
> 
> Your right. Not only does he reject me verbally, when he says no. There is a LOT of rejection without actually saying no to actual sex. Every time I try to snuggle, or kiss, or touch he pushes me away, or does something similar.
> 
> Even last night after this whole conversation we had, I crawled on top of him and straddled him. (This was after he said it was okay if we had sex, mind you. So he has given me the green light, I followed his stupid rules.) I tried to kiss him and he turned away from me. I tried again, and he gave me one little peck. So I crawled off and went back to my own side of the couch. Then after he completely ignored me for another 10 minutes while watching tv, hes like, "Okay. Lets go have sex now."
> 
> I take that as rejection. I guess I'm not important enough to stop watching tv. He has to finish his show before he will even kiss me back.
> 
> I just want to be a priority, dang it.


Honestly it sounds like your marriage is more of a loving friendship rather than a passionate relationship. Instead of focusing on sex have you reevaluated your marriage? If he was married to another person do you think he would be so dispassionate? I'm not trying to sound mean, it just sucks reading all your posts. Have you considered that maybe he loves you, but just not in the way you imagine?


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will look into it. Honestly I'm scared.
> 
> I'm scared of what he will think, I'm scared he will be upset. I'm scared he will look at me different, or think I'm some sex addict.
> 
> I have no idea how I would find a counselor in my very rural area.
> 
> I'm scared to share my feeling and personal life with something in "real life."
> 
> I would feel much more comfortable if he would go with me. But it's hard to even approach the subject because he sees nothing wrong and get thinks I'm crazy. He would literately laugh at me if I bring up a counselor again.


You're scared of your husband? Do YOU think that you're a sex addict? Also, if you go to a counselor you might not like what you hear. You guys will probably be told to settle on a happy medium, so more than he wants, and less than you want. Think if that's something you're willing to deal with.


----------



## FizzBomb

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Change is hard. Staying in the same situation is comfortable. Unhappy, but comfortable. Just take a look at the sexless marriage threads. Everyone wants their situation to change but are not willing to actually do anything about it. They like to complain about it and talk about it and even want advice but most don't take the advice offered.

If you do nothing, nothing will change. What are you afraid of? Think about it. Do you fear the counselor will challenge you to make a change? Fear keeps you immobile-running on the spot. You will be lamenting the state of your marriage 'til death do us part.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> justfabulous, I agree, reading through CW's post paints a pretty bad picture. However if you read through you will see that there is some progress. She has spent a lot of effort on communication, and has improved her situation. She is getting more of what she wants. But there is still some ways to go.
> 
> But I really have to agree that there are times when I just want to shake him and tell him off. The exposing a dream to somebody else is already a No No, and then to tease about it (gads). And making her feel not very sexy (how manipulative and childish is that?). Yup, he needs a wake up call to understand some of these things.


Well, good to know progress is being made. I'm still on page 43 of this thread, so I guess I haven't gotten to the progress yet. It just seems to me that he's quite hurtful in a multitude of ways and its hard for me to understand how someone who really loves and cares about a person could do/say some of the things I've read in this thread... but I'm glad to know there have been improvements and am interested to read about them. I will say, I never read super-long threads completely through due to being tight on time, but this one has me reading every post and hoping for a "happily ever after" one way or another for Curious Wife.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We've talked about it before. He absolutely refuses to try anything kind of supplement, or vitamin, or anything.


I think that's very unfair of him towards you. It just seems to show such a lack of willingness and concern on his part to do what he can to make improvements. You are putting in so much effort in so many ways to make this work, and his behavior has consistently been causing you agony. If he really cared about your happiness, and the relationship, one would think he would be willing to do something _so simple _as _try_ a natural supplement or pop some vitamins. Why flat out refuse to simply _try? _. How hard could that be for him? I mean, how can he be opposed to _vitamins_ for heavens sake? :scratchhead: What's he got to lose? You proposed something that is not only harmless, its good for him. Takes a second to do and is effortless. How can that possibly cause him any sort of angst? I just don't get why he wouldn't be willing to do something that simple and effortless for you - just to _see_ if it might help things? This example just really underscores how ultimately unconcerned he seems to be about your happiness and this situation, and how little effort he's willing to invest to address an issue in your marriage which is incredibly important to you & your happiness, and integral to the long term success of the marriage. Marriage is a TWO way street. It takes REAL effort on the part of both spouses to have a happy marriage. "Absolutely refusing" to comply with a simple and very reasonable request which would require virtually no effort on his part and cause him no harm makes no sense and doesn't demonstrate a genuine commitment to making things better between you. Anyway, I'm still catching up on posts in this thread, so maybe there are things I'm not yet aware of which will improve my opinion of him. Hope so....


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thank you for this. Your post helps me feel sane again. That I'm not just crazy.
> 
> Your right. Not only does he reject me verbally, when he says no. There is a LOT of rejection without actually saying no to actual sex. Every time I try to snuggle, or kiss, or touch he pushes me away, or does something similar.
> 
> Even last night after this whole conversation we had, I crawled on top of him and straddled him. (This was after he said it was okay if we had sex, mind you. So he has given me the green light, I followed his stupid rules.) I tried to kiss him and he turned away from me. I tried again, and he gave me one little peck. So I crawled off and went back to my own side of the couch. Then after he completely ignored me for another 10 minutes while watching tv, hes like, "Okay. Lets go have sex now."
> 
> I take that as rejection. I guess* I'm not important enough to stop watching tv*. He has to finish his show before he will even kiss me back.
> 
> I just *want to be a priority*, dang it.


Your welcome.

Yup, it is this sort of thing that burns me up. Actually I find it hard to believe. For one thing, after the go ahead on sex, he finds 10 minutes of TV more important than making love to you. That sucks, and does not make much sense to me. And if whatever was on TV was that interesting, why could he not be an adult about it and tell you "just ten minutes more babe", and then scoot you next to him and rub you gently where you enjoy it for the 10 minutes (eyes are used for TV, hands are used to find something interesting to touch).

After thinking about it, I would not recommend keeping a journal of how many times he rejects you. The proof is already there in your feelings. You feel rejected, de-prioritized, verbally put down and degraded. Frankly, that is enough proof that he is rejecting you more than you reject him. Can he say that he feels rejected, put down, and made to feel unwanted at times?

justfabulous, I have to take it back a little. Yes, there is some progress, but not enough to have a happy ending. That is, she has had a good month last month, and it has been a struggle to get there. But now things are slipping again. So, progress is there, but is still minor. So read on. Your input will be of use because most of us have read her post over several months and thus the details are not as fresh in our minds.

Curious, I can imagine the fear of seeking out a councilor. However I don't think they are going to label you as a sex addict at all. You have drive, you want passion in your marriage, you want to feel you are the object of his desire, you want to feel you can pull his attention away from watching paint dry and rock his world, and you want him to figure out that it is important to get into the spirit of things in bed and not be selfish about it. That's not unreasonable to ask.

I am going to guess the real scary part of seeking out a councilor is that he will be upset by it. He does not see the problem, and since money is tight he will seriously question why you are spending money on something he does not believe in. That has got to make it very hard to think about that route. He will be thinking that you are trying to find support for your side and he will feel threatened by it. Makes it all the more difficult to seek any help. So sorry.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> What will the end result be - you will have no self esteem and believe you never deserve sex. Put it back on him! You have so much going for you and so much to contribute to an intimate relationship. He is truly clueless about how good he has it. Perhaps he is just too young/immature about this to understand how many men are not as fortunate.



This sort of touches on something I'm concerned about. The more time you spend with this man, the more he may be messing with your mind. I don't mean intentionally (or perhaps it is intentional, I don't know). But I mean, as MissScarlett said, this is really going to end up leaving you with having major self esteem issues and perhaps other issues that could cause you to be messed up for a long time to come. If this all continues to carry on, and things don't ultimately work out with him, you are likely to carry issues with you into another relationship, where you end up doubting your desirability as a woman, which would be really, really unfortunate. I've seen this happen with someone I knew. She was with the wrong guy who treated her in ways similar to what you describe. Eventually she realized it, moved on, found a truly amazing guy who worshipped her. By that point, she was so messed up from the previous relationship. She doubted every wonderful thing the new man told her - always believed "he must just be saying that" simply because he was a good, loving man. He said she was sexy, constantly told her how hot he was for her all the time - she truly did not / could not believe it to be true, based on the years of conditioning from Mr Wrong. During sex with the new guy, she could never relax, never believed he was really into it DESPITE all outward appearances entirely to the contrary, thought he must be thinking negative things he just wasn't saying... that he must just be putting on an act that he's totally into her to build her up and help her overcome her self esteem issues. It was truly awful because it was no act on his part, and he meant everything he told her. He was crazy about her. It was frustrating and painful for him that she could never believe him, and she ended up losing a lot of her sexual confidence and desire due to being made to feel somewhat undesirable by the previous man. I lost touch with her over time, so I don't know how things ever turned out in that subsequent relationship, but I know it was a real struggle for her, and for HIM due to all the baggage she brought from the way she was treated in the previous relationship. Its important to be aware how damaging a situation like this can ultimately be if it goes on too long.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious...based on literally 1,000's of stories I've read about marriages like yours, IF YOU DO NOT GO TO COUNSELING I can tell you what is going to happen:
> 
> *he won't change, you will continue to be unhappy
> 
> *after years and years of this, you will end up very depressed and despondent. he likely won't change from his current state (meaning, it will not make him depressed and despondent).
> 
> *eventually you will be ready to jump off a cliff, so you will initiate a separation. he will cry "what? you would leave me over sex?" and you will say "yes, I've been tell you this all along". he will say "but I never realized it was that big of a deal". you will say "how could you not know? i have brought it up weekly for the past X number of years?"
> 
> *he will convince you to give him one more chance which you do....and he still won't step it up.
> 
> *you will file for divorce, heartbroken and years lost that you can never get back.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still sure there is no way you can go to counseling?


Ouch, call a spade a spade. 

Faithful Wife, I don't disagree at all. It is just such a bleak and sad outcome. After reading through her post, and getting to know her and sympathize with her, I would really hate to see this outcome. It makes me sad.

Curious, if you can't go the counselor route, then find some way to get some of the books. Think about it this way, which is what you want to look back on .. the above description (yuck) or buying a book online and having it sent to your house and reading it and improving things? Perhaps if he sees that you are willing to spend money on the book, he may start to understand how important this part of marriage is to you. And a books is far less threatening than talking to a live person about these matters.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

justfabulous,

So your up to mid January. Good going. I gotta say that your are right. As you read on you are gonna find places where he messes with her self esteem in very cruel ways. Too many of these, and she has got to end up scared inside.

In a relationship, occasionally something is said that is hurtful. And apologies are said. The scars heal for the most part with time. But this sort of beating up keeps tearing the scars open. 

Sorry Curious, but I think that the posters here are just trying to help, but they don't have the ability to slap some sense and awareness into him.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious, if you can't go the counselor route, then find some way to get some of the books. Think about it this way, which is what you want to look back on .. the above description (yuck) or buying a book online and having it sent to your house and reading it and improving things? Perhaps if he sees that you are willing to spend money on the book, he may start to understand how important this part of marriage is to you. And a books is far less threatening than talking to a live person about these matters.


Try ThriftBooks (dot com) and see if any of the suggested titles are available there. Much lower prices than Amazon (books may be slightly used, but still generally in excellent condition and super cheap). Self help books are a very inexpensive way to get some invaluable expertise to help you through the struggles life throws at us. If you can make some headway in this situation for the mere cost of a book, wouldn't that be the best money you've ever spent...?


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He really isn't behaving any differently than any other truly LD person.

The problem is simply that Curious, like most HD spouses in a mismatched marriage, wants to continue to believe that somehow he will magically change.

She can either accept him as he is and make the small improvements that are possible (and there are some, but they would need sex therapy to achieve them), or she can realize that he simply isn't the person who will ever give her all she needs in this area and make choices accordingly. It is the same story, over and over in this type of forum.

Sadly though, those who do finally figure out that their LD spouse is not going to meet their needs, wait 10 or 20 years before they come to this conclusion, and a couple of kids around make that decision so much harder.

Avoiding the "pain" of counseling or fears of what might be discussed is NOTHING to the pain of an actual divorce...but people in this situation don't usually realize that a divorce will eventually be in the cards. They think they can wish and hope this stuff away.

Getting a grip on reality is really, really necessary. That means, no, you can't wish and hope this stuff away.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



faithful wife said:


> he really isn't behaving any differently than any other truly ld person.
> 
> The problem is simply that curious, like most hd spouses in a mismatched marriage, wants to continue to believe that somehow he will magically change.
> 
> She can either accept him as he is and make the small improvements that are possible (and there are some, but they would need sex therapy to achieve them), or she can realize that he simply isn't the person who will ever give her all she needs in this area and make choices accordingly. It is the same story, over and over in this type of forum.
> 
> Sadly though, those who do finally figure out that their ld spouse is not going to meet their needs, wait 10 or 20 years before they come to this conclusion, and a couple of kids around make that decision so much harder.
> 
> Avoiding the "pain" of counseling or fears of what might be discussed is nothing to the pain of an actual divorce...but people in this situation don't usually realize that a divorce will eventually be in the cards. They think they can wish and hope this stuff away.
> 
> Getting a grip on reality is really, really necessary. That means, no, you can't wish and hope this stuff away.


exactly


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, all this discussion makes me wonder if we are helping you or hindering you. We offer advice, and keep your hopes up for change, and perhaps there is some small changes for a while here and there. Posting a thread here, and working on it from your end probably will not really fix things. A forum like this can only do so much. We offer advice, and sympathy to you. But this forum is not really a substitute for counseling (especially counseling where you both go to the counselor).

In order to fix things he has to change too, and only he can do that. He has to want to change. You have a problem and you are pulling the bulk of the weight for change (honestly I don't see him really trying hard because he does not see an issue). If there is going to be any real help, it is going to be because both of you are working together.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'd love to buy a vibrator. And trust me I've worn out my mouth telling him how we should try it, and how it would take the pressure off. But no amount of begging, asking, or reasoning will get him to allow me to buy one. He says absolutely not. He even gets upset if I bring it up anymore.


He refuses to try a vibrator to try to elevate your sexual fulfillment; he refuses to pop a few vitamins to try to elevate your sexual fulfillment.... This is not showing a real concern or willingness on his part to elevate your sexual fulfillment. These are simple, reasonable requests. What guy wouldn't be willing to agree to this minimal amount of effort to help ensure his wife is feeling fulfilled in their sex life? This is easy stuff. I just don't see a genuine commitment or concern on his part to overcome these issues. He agrees to things _only on his terms_. That's not how healthy marriage works. Again, your not asking for anything difficult, deviant, strenuous, immoral, obscene... he should be willing to accommodate these types of simple, effortless requests. He needs to get over himself and get committed to helping you attain fulfillment in this marriage.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> He refuses to try a vibrator to try to elevate your sexual fulfillment; he refuses to pop a few vitamins to try to elevate your sexual fulfillment.... This is not showing a real concern or willingness on his part to elevate your sexual fulfillment. These are simple, reasonable requests. What guy wouldn't be willing to agree to this minimal amount of effort to help ensure his wife is feeling fulfilled in their sex life? This is easy stuff. I just don't see a genuine commitment or concern on his part to overcome these issues. He agrees to things _only on his terms_. That's not how healthy marriage works. Again, your not asking for anything difficult, deviant, strenuous, immoral, obscene... he should be willing to accommodate these types of simple, effortless requests. He needs to get over himself and get committed to helping you attain fulfillment in this marriage.


Ah, good you are up to mid February. I can only see one reason to ask a wife not to buy a vibrator, fear that she will use it so much that it will make it hard to orgasm when having sex with hubby. But I seriously don't think that this guy is thinking that far ahead - I suspect he does not even know this could happen. So I fully agree with you again, He is very selfish. Next thing he will be telling her that she can't masturbate.

Besides, even if her senses were dulled by a vibrator it's an easy fix, put it down for a few days.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It seems curious gets her o when they do have sex, but he goes long stretches without needing sex and has no need for any physical contact during this time. During the stretches he doesn't need sex he also won't be persuaded to relieve her or even cuddle with her. 

There definitely ha been progress - he use to not try at all for her o - but the stretches of no physical intimacy are troubling and not so likely to change. Like many other situations here - he won't likely ever NEED the physical contact curious needs. He could remind himself to add it in , he could be more conscientious about it but it won't be a need of his. They won't ever be working off a mutual need for each other unless he is in a mood for it. I imagine she will always somewhat be waiting for his moods to turn. 

This is the reality of most people on this board, though. It's not fatal but it's not usually fixable either.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> It seems curious gets her o when they do have sex, but he goes long stretches without needing sex and has no need for any physical contact during this time. During the stretches he doesn't need sex he also won't be persuaded to relieve her or even cuddle with her.
> 
> There definitely ha been progress - he use to not try at all for her o - but the stretches of no physical intimacy are troubling and not so likely to change. Like many other situations here - he won't likely ever NEED the physical contact curious needs. He could remind himself to add it in , he could be more conscientious about it but it won't be a need of his. They won't ever be working off a mutual need for each other unless he is in a mood for it. I imagine she will always somewhat be waiting for his moods to turn.
> 
> This is the reality of most people on this board, though. It's not fatal but it's not usually fixable either.


True and so very sad.


----------



## FizzBomb

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> The problem is the same. You need assertiveness training. He doesn't know he is rejecting you because half the time you aren't assertive enough for him to even know you were initiating.


She doesn't need assertiveness training - she needs a 'real' husband. Not a man that plays cruel emotional games with her.

Curious, you've only been married a year or so, no kids - time to bail. Girl, you're on a sinking ship. All _your_ efforts have not made any difference. He's playing some really cruel emotionally devastating games with you. He's basically jerking you around. You are investing way too much emotional energy worrying and fretting about someone who doesn't seem to give two ****s about you. It's really hard to read about how he is treating you.

Look how many pages this thread is up to. Zero progress in your relationship. Do you know why? Because you are the only one vested in this relationship.

This man and you should be all over each other. You are all over him but he's doesn't seem to be into you. This is not a relationship. It's just a poor emotionally abused gal begging for a selfish, cruel man's crumbs. Which he meagrely doles out 'when he feels like it'. Which apparently is, never.

Having children with this man will be a nightmare. You will be doing it all on your own.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



FizzBomb said:


> She doesn't need assertiveness training - she needs a 'real' husband. Not a man that plays cruel emotional games with her.
> 
> Curious, you've only been married a year or so, no kids - time to bail. Girl, you're on a sinking ship. All _your_ efforts have not made any difference. He's playing some really cruel emotionally devastating games with you. He's basically jerking you around. You are investing way too much emotional energy worrying and fretting about someone who doesn't seem to give two ****s about you. It's really hard to read about how he is treating you.
> 
> Look how many pages this thread is up to. Zero progress in your relationship. Do you know why? Because you are the only one vested in this relationship.
> 
> This man and you should be all over each other. You are all over him but he's doesn't seem to be into you. This is not a relationship. It's just a poor emotionally abused gal begging for a selfish, cruel man's crumbs. Which he meagrely doles out 'when he feels like it'. Which apparently is, never.
> 
> Having children with this man will be a nightmare. You will be doing it all on your own.



What Fizzbomb said. :iagree:


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



FizzBomb said:


> She doesn't need assertiveness training - she needs a 'real' husband. Not a man that plays cruel emotional games with her.
> 
> Curious, you've only been married a year or so, no kids - time to bail. Girl, you're on a sinking ship. All _your_ efforts have not made any difference. He's playing some really cruel emotionally devastating games with you. He's basically jerking you around. You are investing way too much emotional energy worrying and fretting about someone who doesn't seem to give two ****s about you. It's really hard to read about how he is treating you.
> 
> Look how many pages this thread is up to. Zero progress in your relationship. Do you know why? Because you are the only one vested in this relationship.
> 
> This man and you should be all over each other. You are all over him but he's doesn't seem to be into you. This is not a relationship. It's just a poor emotionally abused gal begging for a selfish, cruel man's crumbs. Which he meagrely doles out 'when he feels like it'. Which apparently is, never.
> 
> Having children with this man will be a nightmare. You will be doing it all on your own.


I don't agree. I don't think he's cruel, he's just not as high drive as she is. He's not doing this on purpose. It's not something he can really change.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> "To boot, he is not into touching and playful stuff .. the kind of stuff that gets the mood set. Personally I see this is as a form of rejection. Why push the hand of somebody you love off of you? Why? :scratchhead:"
> 
> *Indeed. *
> 
> "And he also puts you down by saying that you don't orgasm fast enough etc. This is also a form of rejection. "Hay, I don't want to have sex with you because *it is too much work *for me to get you off." Oh, and "hay, your are on your period, so give me a few blow jobs.""
> 
> 
> *Yes, "too much work" to pleasure her he has said repeatedly - and let us not forget "boring" (in reference to sex with her.*)
> 
> *What kind of man actually says this stuff to the woman he loves? Its bad enough if he actually *thinks* these things to himself, but I can't imagine any decent guy actually having the heart to SAY those things? How could he possibly not know how hurtful it would be to tell this to the woman who loves him? This is why I think the problems here extend beyond sexual issues. He seems to lack the empathy, sensitivity and compassion one normally has for the person they love and care about... and this just doesn't bode well for the long term success of this relationship*.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> I don't agree. I don't think he's cruel, he's just not as high drive as she is. He's not doing this on purpose. It's not something he can really change.


_Except for...._ Take a closer look at some of the cruel things he has _said_ to her... he doesn't think she's sexy (yes, he SAID that to her), sex with her is "boring", her lady parts smell bad (even right after a shower), bringing her to orgasm is "too much work"... and it goes on and on. There are a lot of people who have mismatched sex drives, and they may say "I just don't have enough energy", "I'm too stressed", etc, etc. *When* they really care about their spouse's feelings and love them, they actually try to avoid making it about their spouse so their spouse doesn't take it as a personal rejection. He often does just the opposite, which is really a damaging attack on her self esteem.

And other behaviors - he shows little physical affection to her outside of their sexual encounters, which understandably bothers her. But when she confides in him that she has had a disturbing dream about him and another woman they know hooking up, he reveals that dream to the other woman -- and then every time they are all in public together, he and the other woman start up some major flirting in front of his wife, and he pulls the other gal into his lap (something he apparently never does with Curious) while they carry on together laughing and flirting in front of her... this is indeed CRUEL. Honestly, if my husband EVER did such a thing.... that would speak volumes to me about his level of regard and respect for me. And I would never tolerate this, anymore than he would tolerate similar behavior from me - because it is so beyond how a loving spouse should act. Fortunately such behavior would never even enter either of our realm of consciousness.

And that is just ONE example of his cruel behavior from this 68 page thread, there are many more. 

He cant change or control his sex drive, true, but he certainly can control the cruel, insensitive, hurtful, damaging things that comes out of his mouth towards her. And he can control the ignorant and selfish behavior he shows in manipulating situations so that he always selfishly gets plenty of sexual gratification for himself, but very calculatedly stacks the deck so he won't have to reciprocate. 

Mismatched sex drives are one thing, but this other stuff adds a completely different dimension to the relationship. People can have mismatched sex drives and yet still treat one another with respect and regard, and not have this other element of cruel words and improper behavior.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

justfabulous, :iagree:

It is really good that you are reading through this and getting a fresh perspective on it. And calling it out for what it is. Wow, seeing all these things he has done to her condensed into a few pin pointed post makes it easier to see the forest instead of a few trees. 

And lets not forget his spending the night with friends, and not inviting her. And the times he comes home late without letting her know. These are somewhat minor, but these are things she could call out on him. He is married now. There is some expectations about these sort of things.

The last set of post on this thread have been very reflective on the situation in the many pages of this thread. But I fear that it may scare curious a lot. If I were her, and I read the last post I would be so scared. I would be afraid that my situation is not going to improve very much. I would be afraid that I would be stuck either excepting it, or waiting for enough courage to get out. I feel sorry for her. I am sure I am not alone in wishing there was something we could really do for her other than make a few minor suggestions. But a thread in a forum is really not sufficient help, or the type of help she needs. It would appear that something stronger is needed.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> He really isn't behaving any differently than any other truly LD person.
> 
> The problem is simply that Curious, like most HD spouses in a mismatched marriage, wants to continue to believe that somehow he will magically change.
> 
> She can either accept him as he is and make the small improvements that are possible (and there are some, but they would need sex therapy to achieve them), or she can realize that he simply isn't the person who will ever give her all she needs in this area and make choices accordingly. It is the same story, over and over in this type of forum.
> 
> Sadly though, those who do finally figure out that their LD spouse is not going to meet their needs, wait 10 or 20 years before they come to this conclusion, and a couple of kids around make that decision so much harder.
> 
> Avoiding the "pain" of counseling or fears of what might be discussed is NOTHING to the pain of an actual divorce...but people in this situation don't usually realize that a divorce will eventually be in the cards. They think they can wish and hope this stuff away.
> 
> Getting a grip on reality is really, really necessary. That means, no, you can't wish and hope this stuff away.



Faithful Wife, 

I _strongly agree _with you -- *with the exception of that very first sentence... *

_"He really isn't behaving any differently than any other truly LD person"._

I do not believe that all other LD people would be guilty of the same cruel behavior, manipulation, mind games and disrespect that this man consistently shows his newlywed wife. Therefore, I can not agree that his behavior is the same as any truly _LD _spouse. Just because a person's body isn't biologically tuned to want a lot of sex, doesn't implicitly mean that they become cruel, manipulative, disrespectful etc. A person may want sex only a few times a year, and still treat their spouse with tenderness, sensitivity, respect, empathy and love. 

In fact, I have known of people in relationships with mismatched sex drives and yes, there was frustration and struggle at times due to the situation... however, they maintained a high level of respect, regard and sensitivity to one another and a genuine commitment to working in partnership to find solutions. Their relationships continued to be filled with tenderness and nurturing for one another and there was none of the cruel behavior that we have read about through out this thread on the part of this man towards his wife (please see post #1018 for a quick refresher). 

As I have said before, his inappropriate behavior and attitude toward her adds a completely different dimension into the relationship, beyond the mismatched sex drives. And while, yes, Im sure some other people with LD may behave disrespectfully and hurtfully toward their spouses (just as some HD might, and some medium drives might), it is not by any means a required trait or symptom of the LD. So I don't think its accurate to say "he isn't behaving any differently than any other truly LD". That would mean that all LDs are @sshole$, and that just doesn't seem fair or realistic (having a physiological makeup that causes you to be LD implicitly makes you an @sshole??)

Apart from that, you hit the nail on the head with everything else in your post, sadly.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> _Except for...._ Take a closer look at some of the cruel things he has _said_ to her... he doesn't think she's sexy (yes, he SAID that to her), sex with her is "boring", her lady parts smell bad (even right after a shower), bringing her to orgasm is "too much work"... and it goes on and on. There are a lot of people who have mismatched sex drives, and they may say "I just don't have enough energy", "I'm too stressed", etc, etc. *When* they really care about their spouse's feelings and love them, they actually try to avoid making it about their spouse so their spouse doesn't take it as a personal rejection. He often does just the opposite, which is really a damaging attack on her self esteem.
> 
> And other behaviors - he shows little physical affection to her outside of their sexual encounters, which understandably bothers her. But when she confides in him that she has had a disturbing dream about him and another woman they know hooking up, he reveals that dream to the other woman -- and then every time they are all in public together, he and the other woman start up some major flirting in front of his wife, and he pulls the other gal into his lap (something he apparently never does with Curious) while they carry on together laughing and flirting in front of her... this is indeed CRUEL. Honestly, if my husband EVER did such a thing.... that would speak volumes to me about his level of regard and respect for me. And I would never tolerate this, anymore than he would tolerate similar behavior from me - because it is so beyond how a loving spouse should act. Fortunately such behavior would never even enter either of our realm of consciousness.
> 
> And that is just ONE example of his cruel behavior from this 68 page thread, there are many more.
> 
> He cant change or control his sex drive, true, but he certainly can control the cruel, insensitive, hurtful, damaging things that comes out of his mouth towards her. And he can control the ignorant and selfish behavior he shows in manipulating situations so that he always selfishly gets plenty of sexual gratification for himself, but very calculatedly stacks the deck so he won't have to reciprocate.
> 
> Mismatched sex drives are one thing, but this other stuff adds a completely different dimension to the relationship. People can have mismatched sex drives and yet still treat one another with respect and regard, and not have this other element of cruel words and improper behavior.


True, I forgot about those things. This thread is so long it's hard to keep track. Honestly, I've already said this before, but he might just not be attracted to her sexually. It's hard to know.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FightForHer Said: _*"And lets not forget his spending the night with friends, and not inviting her... These are somewhat minor, but these are things she could call out on him. He is married now. There is some expectations about these sort of things."*_


FightForHer, 

Yes, absolutely. The frequent nights that he doesn't come home at all, preferring to spend the night at the home of friends (and the times he stays out with friends and stands her up while she waits at home for him in lingerie), are odd and unexpected for a newlymarried man (or really any married man) to say the least. _If,_ apart from that, he was a wonderful, devoted husband... that would be one thing (still a little peculiar but...), however, its just another part of the whole unhealthy picture.


*"The last set of post on this thread have been very reflective on the situation in the many pages of this thread. But I fear that it may scare curious a lot. If I were her, and I read the last post I would be so scared. I would be afraid that my situation is not going to improve very much.... I am sure I am not alone in wishing there was something we could really do for her other than make a few minor suggestions. *


Totally agree. In fact, I really hesitated before getting involved in making commentary, because I don't want to upset this poor girl anymore than she already is. I keep telling myself, _this is none of my business._.. But on the other hand, some of this has just _been so appalling and mind boggling_. And she's obviously here because she's hoping for some kind of help. How do you stand by with the clarity of an objective 3rd party observer and just say nothing? I know some of this must be very hard for her to hear, but the hope is that she is going to gain the insights from it to either snap some sense (and genuine concern) into this guy, or make a break before she a) wastes precious years of her life and b) ends up totally messed up for future relationships. Oh yeah, and c) brings babies into this already horribly dysfunctional relationship.


*"But a thread in a forum is really not sufficient help, or the type of help she needs. It would appear*
_*that something stronger is needed."*_

Absolutely agree with you once again.


Curious has said they cant afford counselling, but what she doesn't realize is that they can not afford NOT to go to counselling. That is what is very clear to me after having read this whole thread in the course of just a few days. What price do you put on saving the marriage you so desperately want to hold on to? At this stage, yes, professional counselling is I believe an absolute requirement if this marriage stands any hope. 

I think Curious also mentioned that the only counsellor in her area is someone she knows well, so therefore we all understand the issue there. But then drive to a nearby city or town to see a counsellor there - again, this marriage needs intensive care. If this is such a big issue that she's been discussing it almost daily in this SIXTY-EIGHT page thread for a full 7 months (and we can see why...) then its important enough to get to counselling - however and whatever it takes. That may require extreme measures, like shelling out the cash and going where you need to go -just as you would do if there was a serious medical problem needing attention.

And of course, there's always another alternative for counselling if being personally acquainted with the only counsellor in your town is the problem - what do we see at the bottom of each and every post in this forum? A link to online sex therapists - I do believe that's who this whole forum is operated by, in fact. So use the service and get some help. 

Not enough $$$? - look, you're spending money on lingerie, date nights, overnight hotel gettaways.... etc, etc, ETC... which usually just end up in more frustration and disappointment.... re-direct those funds towards doing the one thing that might still have a shot at saving this marriage before any more damage is done. And if you've done that, and it still doesn't improve, then at least you'll know you truly did everything you could. 

Will this be just another thing he will once again "absolutely REFUSE" to do to try to improve things? 

Well if so, then I guess ultimately that says it all. 

After reading all 1000+ posts on this thread - 7 months worth in just a few days - its clear to me that its time Curious gives her husband an ultimatum - counselling or divorce papers. 

Let it be his choice. Maybe NOW he'll finally start taking this seriously and start to genuinely care. It appears this may be what its going to take to wake him up, and to get him to GROW up. And if not, then I guess that says it all as well.

Let the man's actions speak for themselves once and for all.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, your husband is controlling the level of intimacy, the frequency of intimacy, and the mode of intimacy (no toys and no kissing during his TV shows) and he controls this by making you-or allowing you- to feel like the problem is you. 

And the problem is you honey bear! 

If you were dating a guy this controlling how long would you keep seeing him? This is about standing up for yourself but also about accepting that your needs for loving affection, for intimacy and for sex are just as important as his needs for space and his needs to have his needs met without having to meet yours or work too hard to meet yours.

Keep the journal just as FW suggested. Get the damn books from the library. Just call and order them.

FW wasn't kidding when she laid out your future 10-20 years from now. I see it that way too, most of the people who have come and gone from this thread also see it.

As is so often the case here, not until you are willing to loose your marriage entirely will it ever meaningfully change. The trouble is, when we reach that pivot point lots of people who could have come back, no longer can come back.

This isn't something that you can change in him. He has to want to change it. He has to want to change it because it will keep his marriage in tact.

My husband has come so so far these past 5 months. I had been working at this marriage for years to try to save it. When I have up and was absolutely ready to walk he realized I meant what I had been saying all these years! I don't let him minimize anymore at all. 

Find a PhD therapist who also specializes in sex therapy. If you tell him about seeing a sex therapist he will shut down so just say therapist. Make the appointment and go! Tell him you're going and you want him to come with you. He will say no, tell you that you're over reacting, try to make you feel like you've got it all wrong. But you will be armed with your journal!

I know FW prefers to use the term mismatched libidos and I don't disagree with her. I think it boils things down too far, makes it seem like something trivial or inconsequential, like one spouse being a night owl and the other a morning person. Neither is ever going to change from night to morning, but they sure as hell can do a ton of compromising in order to meet one another's needs.

1. Keep your journal for a full month. Each instance of affection you give that's granted, and each instance of affection denied.

2. If you ever give him another BJ I swear girl, both FW and I will find you and we will kidnap you, take you to Vegas, and insist you meet some men who actually know what to do with a willing woman! And at that point, you will be singing the hallelujah chorus and will never go back to crusty bread every other day except for the dry spell during your period!

You are a puppy and he is a cat. Puppies and cats can live very happily together but only if the cat is willing to compromise. But mostly, the puppy ends up disappointed, scolded and scratched.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Mismatched sex drives are one thing, but this other stuff adds a completely different dimension to the relationship. People can have mismatched sex drives and yet still treat one another with respect and regard, and not have this other element of cruel words and improper behavior.


Yes, very much.

TCW, please read and re-read JF's post again and again; I think it is spot on. This not even about sex drive anymore. This about a general lack of respect.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Also, if he said sex is boring why don't you try not to storm off with hurt feelings (I get it's hard to hear someone you love say that, but if you want to make progress this is the way) and instead ask him why he finds sex boring? And how you two can work on the problem.


I DO ask him. All the time. Last night he again said something about our sex life not being very "spicy." I asked him why. He said I didn't act spicy. So I asked him what I could do to improve. And he said he didn't know and couldn't think of anything. I continued asking for an answer until he got upset that I was bugging him.

I also was playing around and I tried to tie him up and have my way with him. He did not like it at all, fought the entire time, and eventually just got mad and pushed me away and told me NO.

So it's not that I don't try, or that I don't ask. It's just he doesn't have a good answer. I don't think he even knows what he wants.

He is again denying that he said our sex life is boring. :scratchhead:


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

An LD person saying sex is boring is nothing unusual. I doubt he meant you personally but that having sex often to him is boring. 

It is not something we HD's are really going to understand. 

While I do agree that his behavior is not great, I suspect that it is a simple matter of youth and insensitivity or lack of introspection rather than outright intentional behavior and can be corrected.

I do not think you are crazy in fact I think you are saner than most people. I do however think that you still have a ways to go on your self-confidence. 

I like the journal idea and the counseling idea -you are too young to shut down. Get this resolved pretty fast or move on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Alright there has been a lot going on in this thread recently and I am currently very short on time to reply. So I'll have to make this quick for now. 

I truly appreciate and respect everyone's comments and opinions. I am touched by how complete strangers seem to care so much about me. 

There is a lot of good advice on here, and I will have to go and think about it some and ponder it. There is a lot to take in.

I know this seems all direly helpless, and that I am miserable, and my husband is a cruel control freak. 

But he never does these things to hurt me on purpose. He is very blunt with his words, too much. He is immature, selfish, and lazy. But he does love me.

I lament a lot about our sex life, but since I started this thread there has been a LOT of improvement.

When I started I had a childish man, who would not give me oral, always begged for blow jobs, did not care about my orgasms, and was never affectionate. It was all and only about him.

He is still childish in a lot of ways, but I can see where things have gotten better.

He now does care about my orgasms. He tries, every time to make sure I get mine before his. When we have sex now I don't have to wonder if I am going to have to beg for my turn. He always provides without me asking, even if it takes a long time.

He hasn't said anything about my orgasm being a chore, or work in a long time. He now frequently tells me he enjoys it. 

He gives me oral. Not as much or as long as I like, but a lot more than he used to. He doesn't wrinkle up his nose if I ask for it anymore, and he actually acts like he wants to do it. He goes there on his own. 

He doesn't ask for blow jobs anymore unless he offers to reciprocate something for me too. 

I have gotten a lot better at not letting him walk all over me. I do not feel like I owe him blow jobs if he asks. I'm okay telling him I don't like sex when he is falling asleep. Our communication still needs work of course, but we are a lot more open.

We are still far from an ideal intimate marriage. But I am confident in our progress, and confident that we will continue to improve. Slowly.

I feel like our sex life has gotten much better, now the affection needs work. I think if I stop initiating sex, and let him take over I can focus my attention on affection.

Yes we go days without kissing. But honestly more often then not I don't say anything about it, or try to start anything. 

I need to start initiating affection, and let him know what I need. He isn't a mind reader. 

Sorry that I can't reply specifically at this time. I'll try to come back and answer individual questions.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> An LD person saying sex is boring is nothing unusual. I doubt he meant you personally but that having sex often to him is boring.
> 
> It is not something we HD's are really going to understand.
> 
> While I do agree that his behavior is not great, I suspect that it is a simple matter of youth and insensitivity or lack of introspection rather than outright intentional behavior and can be corrected.
> 
> I do not think you are crazy in fact I think you are saner than most people. I do however think that you still have a ways to go on your self-confidence.
> 
> I like the journal idea and the counseling idea -you are too young to shut down. Get this resolved pretty fast or move on.


Right. I think a lot of people are judging him on something he is not.

He is not a 50 year old man with lots of past woman experience. He is young and immature. He hasn't learned life lesson's yet. He is insensitive, but not outright mean. 

He does say hurtful things a lot. But he has always been brutally honestly about everything, not just sex. I always liked that trait about him. It just stings worse when it's personal. 

While I don't condone his behavior, and I hate to defend bad behavior I also don't want everyone to think he is a monster.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Not a monster, no no no. But he really needs a lot of growing up. Just look at what you said recently:

*I DO ask him. All the time. Last night he again said something about our sex life not being very "spicy." I asked him why. He said I didn't act spicy. So I asked him what I could do to improve. And he said he didn't know and couldn't think of anything. I continued asking for an answer until he got upset that I was bugging him.*

Putting you down for not acting "spicy." Then turning it into a game of you trying to guess what he wants. Gee, he can't tell you what he thinks is "spicy" and that you are just not it? Come on, a mature person would tell you that they wanted more spice, then work with you to start coming up with ideas about what they though was spicy - even if it meant to revel some of themselves along the way.

Please note that Curious asked what she could do to make things "spicy" and he did not come forth with an answer. He could have said anything - "I want to have sex on the moon in special space suits made for it." 

Point is, that this is just another mind game from your perspective. Guess what I think is spicy sex! And no clues.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

How's the "trend"???

Is he getting better, more sensitive to your needs, over a period of months or years? Or he brushes your views and feelings off?

The trend is your friend as they say...


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

justfab...I actually don't see him being that cruel or manipulative. He just sees the world and prioritizes everything in it differently than she does. Here, in this forum, she appears to be "right" in her descriptions of their reality.

But for him, I am sure he does not deliberately put her down in quite the way it seems when she presents it here.

There are so many "what do you mean, I never reject you!" stories on TAM. So many that it is common for the HD to be told to keep a journal of dates, because most LD's under-estimate how much rejection is happening. Sex is not on the forefront of their minds, so to them, it should not be an insult to the HD partner. Many times the LD feels insulted that the HD "is only thinking about sex sex sex all the time".

I think he's young and confused by his wife. He is happy, has his games and friends and horny wife...but he just isn't that sexual, so the games and friends are a higher fun time for him than his horny wife. This is very typical prioritizing for a true LD.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ask and you shall receive?

Last night when he went to give me my usual goodnight peck I held him tightly and pushed it into something more. We made out for a few minutes, before snuggling into bed. That is pretty rare for us. But I think I caught him off guard and once it started he didn't refuse.

We held hands while we slept.

During the night I was feeling pretty bad and I had to get up and sleep in a chair because of my lung problems. When I woke up this morning he had pulled another chair up to mine and was holding me and rubbing my head. He had gotten up early for work, and he sat there with me for an hour while I dozed off and on.

Then after he left and I got up, I found he had made my coffee in my favorite cup and left it with a sweet note on the table.

WTH? :scratchhead:

In all our long relationship he has never left me a note...

I'm not sure why he is suddenly different, but I will continue to initiate affection. He was grabby this morning like he was actually thinking about sex. Too bad I won't be home until late late.

This man confuses me. Maybe one of my talks finally got through? Who knows.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I imagine he can sense when he's pushed you too far - but hopefully he's also learning that he needs to stop himself before it reaches that point.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> WTH? :scratchhead:


We spend our whole lives growing up. I personally got a late start on it.


----------



## pierrematoe

*LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Rejection does not have to follow the "I want sex" with a "no" response. Couples should get to know one another well enough that showering and putting on sexy lingerie and touching him should be pretty clear that you want sex now.



CW - my thoughts are with you. I can't help but to relate to several of your thoughts and feelings. It can be so frustrating it debilitated you. Is there any LCSW in your area that you could both see?

Same concept in my icy cold bedroom. Two nights ago was a get together with family at our house. Wonderful night. After it's over I say let's cuddle and she says ok but reluctantly. Well I'm gently caressing her and stroking her and obviously sending the signal. She touched my hand for a few minutes but was otherwise lifeless...........lifeless. Eventually I cut my losses and moved over to my side of the bed. Game over .....before it ever started


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Ask and you shall receive?
> 
> Last night when he went to give me my usual goodnight peck I held him tightly and pushed it into something more. *Excellent move on your part *We made out for a few minutes, before snuggling into bed. That is pretty rare for us. But I think I caught him off guard and once it started he didn't refuse.* Sometimes LD people need a little push to get started, but once they are started then they are more responsive.*
> 
> We held hands while we slept.
> 
> During the night I was feeling pretty bad and I had to get up and sleep in a chair because of my lung problems. When I woke up this morning he had pulled another chair up to mine and was holding me and rubbing my head. He had gotten up early for work, and he sat there with me for an hour while I dozed off and on.
> 
> Then after he left and I got up, I found he had made my coffee in my favorite cup and left it with a sweet note on the table.
> 
> *How nice. These little things are the things that make you feel more loved.*
> 
> WTH? :scratchhead:
> 
> In all our long relationship he has never left me a note...
> 
> I'm not sure why he is suddenly different, but I will continue to initiate affection. He was grabby this morning like he was actually thinking about sex. Too bad I won't be home until late late.
> 
> This man confuses me. Maybe one of my talks finally got through? Who knows.*Hopefully he is just growing up a little at a time.*


Well, I really prefer to read something like this than the stuff about him begging for a BJ and you getting nothing in return. Even though this was not sex, it was loving.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Well, I really prefer to read something like this than the stuff about him begging for a BJ and you getting nothing in return. Even though this was not sex, it was loving.



I prefer it too. lol.

I love those little gestures, that is exactly what I am wanting from him. Sometimes he does them, sometimes he doesn't. It's always a gamble it seems.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> We spend our whole lives growing up. I personally got a late start on it.


He is mature in some ways, but very immature in others. 

I am not sure if he will ever really act like an adult. His dad is 60 years old, and still acts young for his age. (In a good way)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



pierrematoe said:


> CW - my thoughts are with you. I can't help but to relate to several of your thoughts and feelings. It can be so frustrating it debilitated you. Is there any LCSW in your area that you could both see?
> 
> Same concept in my icy cold bedroom. Two nights ago was a get together with family at our house. Wonderful night. After it's over I say let's cuddle and she says ok but reluctantly. Well I'm gently caressing her and stroking her and obviously sending the signal. She touched my hand for a few minutes but was otherwise lifeless...........lifeless. Eventually I cut my losses and moved over to my side of the bed. Game over .....before it ever started


I do that too. If I make a pretty obvious sign and he just isn't into it, I won't even ask. Verbal rejection is worse sometimes then just cutting your losses before it gets there.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I prefer it too. lol.
> 
> I love those little gestures, that is exactly what I am wanting from him. Sometimes he does them, sometimes he doesn't. It's always a gamble it seems.


If he can just realize that everything does not have to lead to sex, or a lot of work for him. That just a few little things will melt your heart.

Can you think of anything that prompted this behavior?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> If he can just realize that everything does not have to lead to sex, or a lot of work for him. That just a few little things will melt your heart.
> 
> Can you think of anything that prompted this behavior?


I've been sick. I have pretty serious health problems, that flare up from time to time. He has always been very good at taking care of me, and "babying" me when that happens. I don't know if he feels pity on me, or some instinct kicks in or what.

One of the very few times I have seen him cry was when I was really sick and he was worried. He has a good heart.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hum, do you think that is a clue? Perhaps some insight to how he is feeling?

Perhaps you could let him know how good these little gestures make you feel, and that you wish he would do little things from time to time even when you feel well. Perhaps you could indicate that these gestures would not be turned into a sexual advance.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He left another note on my coffee this morning. 

It referred to some sexual activities tonight... 

I don't know whats up, but I like it.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sounds like it may be progress. Improvement doesn't necessarily move in a straight line but as long as it keeps generally moving forward and you can give positive reinforcement for behavior and acts that you like, maybe he will continue in the right direction! I am still concerned that there are some "power issues" as the LD partner ALWAYS has the power in both the sexual and non-sexual areas of the relationship and the only major leverage that the HD partner has is to say either things improve or I leave. However, if you are able to compromise on both the sex and affection areas then perhaps you don't have to get to that point. Best of luck to you.


----------



## pierrematoe

*Re: Re: LD Husband Journal*



last worthless evening said:


> Sounds like it may be progress. Improvement doesn't necessarily move in a straight line but as long as it keeps generally moving forward and you can give positive reinforcement for behavior and acts that you like, maybe he will continue in the right direction! I am still concerned that there are some "power issues" as the LD partner ALWAYS has the power in both the sexual and non-sexual areas of the relationship and the only major leverage that the HD partner has is to say either things improve or I leave. However, if you are able to compromise on both the sex and affection areas then perhaps you don't have to get to that point. Best of luck to you.


He's clearly not a complete loser and has shown compassion and caring.

OP - would small steps of progress without major setbacks be enough for you?


----------



## NewHubs

TheCuriousWife said:


> He left another note on my coffee this morning.
> 
> It referred to some sexual activities tonight...
> 
> I don't know whats up, but I like it.


Well did hubby deliver on his promises????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



last worthless evening said:


> Sounds like it may be progress. Improvement doesn't necessarily move in a straight line but as long as it keeps generally moving forward and you can give positive reinforcement for behavior and acts that you like, maybe he will continue in the right direction!


I view progress on complex issues like these a bit like climbing a mountain. While the general direction should be up, you will often have to go down before you can head back up again. As long as those dips are part of moving forward, they are to be expected as part of the process.

I hope CW is still recovering from last night.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



pierrematoe said:


> He's clearly not a complete loser and has shown compassion and caring.
> 
> OP - would small steps of progress without major setbacks be enough for you?


Yes small steps of progress make me very happy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I wasn't going to post about last night, but I guess I will since you asked.

He has been more loving. Such as giving me random kisses, so that is a good thing.

Last night we went and picked up a piece of furniture we bought, and then we had to get it all set up and everything. By the time we were done it was nearly 10pm. I asked husband about following up on the hot note he left me, and he said, "meh."

He said he would rather do it the next day. But I reminded him that we will be busy the rest of the week, so that means we would only get to do it once this week, and it is my horny week.

He decided we better meet our quota, so I got cleaned up. We kind of skipped the foreplay and went straight to piv because a certain position has been working quite well for me lately, and I think he was too tired to drag it out.

Well long story shorter, I got a little too rough I guess and he lost it early. He was more than happy to keep stimulating me, and he did. But after a while, the mood was just kind of lost. For some reason I have trouble if he goes before me, because I get off on feeling him, and seeing him hot and bothered. So once he is done, and kind of in sleepy/worn out mode it just doesn't have the same spark.

So I just asked him to quit, and now our streak is broken. I had, had an orgasm like the last 10 times we have had sex, which is a record for us. 

Oh well. The worst part about stopping is afterwards when your waiting for your body to calm back down. I always get all shaky, and feel sick for a while. 

He felt pretty bad, and kept saying how he will do better next time.

It really wasn't his fault though. Things just happen sometimes. I wish he didn't take it so personally. It makes me feel pressured.

I'm looking forward to improving next time. He left another romantic note and coffee this morning again. :smthumbup:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh, I forgot to add that last week he surprised me by shaving his "goodie bag." 

So I do think he has sex and/or my needs & wants, more on the brain.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

sounds like progress to me.

Also sounds like you have a good hubby.

You mentioned in previous post that he has some immaturity.
Without being too negative, describe those things.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> . F*or some reason I have trouble if he goes before me, because I get off on feeling him, and seeing him hot and bothered. So once he is done, and kind of in sleepy/worn out mode it just doesn't have the same spark.
> 
> So I just asked him to quit, and now our streak is broken. I had, had an orgasm like the last 10 times we have had sex, which is a record for us.
> 
> Oh well. The worst part about stopping is afterwards when your waiting for your body to calm back down. I always get all shaky, and feel sick for a while.
> 
> He felt pretty bad, and kept saying how he will do better next time.
> *
> It really wasn't his fault though. Things just happen sometimes. I wish he didn't take it so personally. It makes me feel pressured.
> 
> I'm looking forward to improving next time. He left another romantic note and coffee this morning again. :smthumbup:


Do you see the negative circle going on here?

He is trying to bring you off, but since it wasn't happening in just the way you think it is supposed to, (he is all hot and bothered and isn't being tired or worn out) you can't get there _because you're reading into his motivations instead of accepting his actions at face value. A negative prompt._

So you end his efforts. _Another negative prompt because you are certain his efforts won't get you there._

Now he sees you shaking and trying to calm down knowing his failure to meet your expectations has caused you to feel badly. _Another negative prompt, he's reading into your behavior and concluding it was his failure._

Now he has more pressure on him to meet your expectations in exactly the way you want it. If he can't last long enough to bring you off first, he has failed you. 

How do you think this effects his desire to have sex?

You are so immeshed with his feelings that you can't get what you want unless he wants it too. Have you never made a dinner that wasn't your favorite food but you made it because it was someone else's favorite? What if that person no longer wanted that meal once they understood you didn't really like it that much. Here in front of them is their favorite meal but they can't enjoy it because you don't enjoy it.

Do you see how destructive that level of immeshed emotions can be to a marriage?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> sounds like progress to me.
> 
> Also sounds like you have a good hubby.
> 
> You mentioned in previous post that he has some immaturity.
> Without being too negative, describe those things.


It's hard to say specific things.

He's a grown man who has sleepovers with his friends at least once a month, usually more. He constantly teases me, and picks on me and his family.

He plays video games nearly daily. 

For the record the above things don't really bother me. I still have sleepovers occasionally, and I play video games. But they still seem a little childish. 

I handle the bills. I handle dealings with people, such as hiring workers for the house, or switching our insurance company.

He is very attached to his parents and goes to their house on average 2 or 3 times a week just to visit. Like if I am going to be working late one evening, instead of being alone for 2 hours at home, he will go to his parents. 

Mostly just some of his actions, and personality seem immature. It's really hard to pinpoint certain things.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Do you see the negative circle going on here?
> 
> He is trying to bring you off, but since it wasn't happening in just the way you think it is supposed to, (he is all hot and bothered and isn't being tired or worn out) you can't get there _because you're reading into his motivations instead of accepting his actions at face value. A negative prompt._
> 
> So you end his efforts. _Another negative prompt because you are certain his efforts won't get you there._
> 
> Now he sees you shaking and trying to calm down knowing his failure to meet your expectations has caused you to feel badly. _Another negative prompt, he's reading into your behavior and concluding it was his failure._
> 
> Now he has more pressure on him to meet your expectations in exactly the way you want it. If he can't last long enough to bring you off first, he has failed you.
> 
> How do you think this effects his desire to have sex?
> 
> You are so immeshed with his feelings that you can't get what you want unless he wants it too. Have you never made a dinner that wasn't your favorite food but you made it because it was someone else's favorite? What if that person no longer wanted that meal once they understood you didn't really like it that much. Here in front of them is their favorite meal but they can't enjoy it because you don't enjoy it.
> 
> Do you see how destructive that level of immeshed emotions can be to a marriage?


Yes. I can see the negative circle. But it doesn't always go like that. He was tired, and I have been sick for a while so I was tried. In fact as I was waiting to calm down I fell asleep. 

So it just seemed better to stop. I didn't say anything that would make him feel like it was his fault. I just told him I was getting sore, and sleepy so let's just call it a night.

Usually if he goes first I still get there. It is harder, but not impossible. I just wasn't feeling it last night.

But I can see your point. I don't know why his enjoyment is so important for my enjoyment. I'm a pleaser a guess. :scratchhead:


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The pathological pleaser is doomed to unhappiness.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But I can see your point. I don't know why his enjoyment is so important for my enjoyment. I'm a pleaser a guess. :scratchhead:


One the best moments in my marriage was when I accepted that sex can be great without an orgasm. I focused on getting her there and felt like a failure when I did not. She felt pressure from that and then felt like a failure as well. She worked to convince me that she did not always need to orgasm, but I had trouble accepting it.

But once I did, things took off for both of us. Without the pressure, she started Oing 99% of the time. She is able to get there even when she is not trying (or wanting me to try) to do so. 

I say this to encourage you to keep working on this with your husband. It seems like a fine line for you - orgasms are critical, but they can't be defining. Lifting that pressure can do both of you a world of good.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> The pathological pleaser is doomed to unhappiness.


Then I guess that is my burden to bear. It has caused issues in other areas of my life. So I know full well how it can cause problems.

What would you have done in my situation last night?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> One the best moments in my marriage was when I accepted that sex can be great without an orgasm. I focused on getting her there and felt like a failure when I did not. She felt pressure from that and then felt like a failure as well. She worked to convince me that she did not always need to orgasm, but I had trouble accepting it.
> 
> But once I did, things took off for both of us. Without the pressure, she started Oing 99% of the time. She is able to get there even when she is not trying (or wanting me to try) to do so.
> 
> I say this to encourage you to keep working on this with your husband. It seems like a fine line for you - orgasms are critical, but they can't be defining. Lifting that pressure can do both of you a world of good.


Yes we have discussed this before.

I really don't mind not having an orgasm if that is how it goes. But I do want him to be enthusiastic and show some effort. 

Failure to me isn't him not getting me there. Failure is when he doesn't give a care and doesn't even seem interested.

If I'm not feeling it, or just don't want one then that is fine. I certainly don't want him to feel bad if I don't have one every time. 

As long as he is willing to try I am happy. If I can't get there then that's on me, not him.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well long story shorter, I got a little too rough I guess and he lost it early.


My goodness...don't be so rough! I kid of course. Just curious if you were the dominate one in last night's situation?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> My goodness...don't be so rough! I kid of course. Just curious if you were the dominate one in last night's situation?


Nope. He was definitely the commander last night. :smthumbup:

Maybe too rough wasn't the right word, I think too enthusiastic would be better.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He's a grown man who has sleepovers with his friends at least once a month, usually more.


I don't know how old you hubby is but if you are married and having guy sleep overs is a bit weird.



TheCuriousWife said:


> He plays video games nearly daily.


This needs to stop. Not saying he can't ever play video games but it seems like this is consuming his life.



TheCuriousWife said:


> For the record the above things don't really bother me. I still have sleepovers occasionally, and I play video games. But they still seem a little childish.


Very childish



TheCuriousWife said:


> I handle the bills. I handle dealings with people, such as hiring workers for the house, or switching our insurance company.


So he has no interest in being an adult and taking responsibility? :scratchhead:



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is very attached to his parents and goes to their house on average 2 or 3 times a week just to visit. Like if I am going to be working late one evening, instead of being alone for 2 hours at home, he will go to his parents.


Mama's Boy to the 5th degree :iagree:



TheCuriousWife said:


> Mostly just some of his actions, and personality seem immature. It's really hard to pinpoint certain things.


Sorry but I don't think he was ready for marriage. Again I don't know his age but he needs to discover himself before he makes a marriage commitment.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Then I guess that is my burden to bear. It has caused issues in other areas of my life. So I know full well how it can cause problems.
> 
> What would you have done in my situation last night?


:rofl: You mean aside from plopping on top of him and telling him to put some effort into it?

Life happens. Stuff gets in the way some times. Do you allow your expectations not be met to keep you from finding happiness or joy? Hell no!

For the record, there have been times when Mr pink has been wonderfully giving in bed, leaving me very satisfied. But a few minutes later, my body is begging for more and yet I know he is tired. Depending on how early it is in the evening, I have plopped myself on top of him and asked for an encore. He has never turned me down.

He likes that I can not only ask for what I want, but if I want it badly enough to demand it! Wishy washy wanting gets no one satisfaction.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> Sorry but I don't think he was ready for marriage. Again I don't know his age but he needs to discover himself before he makes a marriage commitment.



I don't think he would have ever grown up though no matter his age.

His parents are super nice, and love their children. Too much.

He was babied. He was spoiled. Not with things or money, but he never really had chores, or knew what tough love was. He had an extremely easy life and childhood that could almost be said was "perfect." 

I think he would have had no problem living with his parents until he was 30+ years old, and still having his mommy cook all his food and wash all his laundry.

Who could blame him. That's a good life. 

But I am not his mommy, and it is hard to teach him that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> :rofl: You mean aside from plopping on top of him and telling him to put some effort into it?
> 
> Life happens. Stuff gets in the way some times. Do you allow your expectations not be met to keep you from finding happiness or joy? Hell no!
> 
> For the record, there have been times when Mr pink has been wonderfully giving in bed, leaving me very satisfied. But a few minutes later, my body is begging for more and yet I know he is tired. Depending on how early it is in the evening, I have plopped myself on top of him and asked for an encore. He has never turned me down.
> 
> He likes that I can not only ask for what I want, but if I want it badly enough to demand it! Wishy washy wanting gets no one satisfaction.


:lol:

Well I agree. 

But he was trying, and he was putting in an effort. So I'm not sure what else I could have asked for. It wasn't a problem on his end. It just wasn't getting anywhere with me.

When it starts hurting, it's hard to get it back to the feel good stage.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> : I have plopped myself on top of him and asked for an encore.


THIS is what CuriousWife should be doing! Get on top!!!!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :lol:
> 
> Well I agree.
> 
> 
> When it starts hurting, it's hard to get it back to the feel good stage.


Coconut oil! I need to buy some stock in this stuff! Buy it at the grocery store. Comes in a solid like crisco. Has a very low melting point, like 77degrees. Is soothing to inflamed skin, soaks in very slowly and will not agitate sensitive skin. I swear by this stuff!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> THIS is what CuriousWife should be doing! Get on top!!!!


Not to worry. I get on top quite frequently. But that position doesn't do much for me...

I prefer doing it like the doggies do.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Coconut oil! I need to buy some stock in this stuff! Buy it at the grocery store. Comes in a solid like crisco. Has a very low melting point, like 77degrees. Is soothing to inflamed skin, soaks in very slowly and will not agitate sensitive skin. I swear by this stuff!


That's what we use! Which reminds me, I'm about out...

Funny story. My mom makes soap so she buys the stuff by the 5 gallon, so I just steal some from her. I tell her it's for cooking but I think she is starting to get suspicious since I seem to run out quite often. 

Husband just rubs pretty vigorously and uses quite a bit of pressure. So if the stimulation goes on too long, my little girly gets sore.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Poor little lady part! So the soreness is more like bruising as opposed to irritated skin? That can be a problem when you need the friction and the pressure to get there.

Faithwife's new blog post includes a guest blogger. This one is about her orgasm blockers. (pssss...I wrote it with you in mind..... )

I Married a Sex God


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So glad to hear all this. The coffee and the notes, the willingness of him to please you and understand the importance if it. Progress indeed.

So, not every sexual encounter is perfect. But you know what they say, "practice makes perfect." So keep practicing.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Poor little lady part! So the soreness is more like bruising as opposed to irritated skin? That can be a problem when you need the friction and the pressure to get there.
> 
> Faithwife's new blog post includes a guest blogger. This one is about her orgasm blockers. (pssss...I wrote it with you in mind..... )
> 
> I Married a Sex God



Yes, more like bruising. 

That was an interesting read! Thanks!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No sex since Thursday...

No kissing or touching since Thursday! 

Saturday we went shopping and several times I tried to hold his hand. Every time he would clamp his fingers shut and pull away from me. Eventually I grabbed his arm with my other hand and tried to force my hand in his and told him "you can hold my hand."

He would not open his hand, and I fumbled for a few seconds before just backing off. His friend was with us and it was embarrassing. I would have started an argument right there but I didn't not want to a make a bigger scene. Of course the rest of the day it was bothering me.

I think him rejecting things like that hurts worse than when he rejects sex. Sex does take some time and effort, so I guess I can understand if he doesn't feel like it. But really, how does holding my hand take any effort, or take any time. 

That evening I waited and waited for him to make an advance, but nothing. Finally I asked him if we could have sex. He said, "no, not tonight." (So much for never rejecting me...) So then I asked if we could at least make out, and he said "nah." Later he promised we would have sex Sunday.

Sunday rolls around and I decide I'm not asking again. By this point I'm pretty turned off. It's hard to get in the mood when you haven't kissed or touched for days. All day he makes comments about how tired he is, or how he has a headache...

He is sending out clear 'no sex tonight' signs. Okay I get it buddy, you don't have to keep acting it up. :banghead:

He falls asleep on the couch at like 8pm as usual. Then wakes up later. And says, "if you want to go shower we can have sex if you want." I told him I wasn't really in the mood and he didn't say another thing about it. 

I could tell it was obligatory and he really didn't want to do it. He will offer sex after it is really late, and after he has made it clear he doesn't want to. That way if I say something about never having sex he will say, "I offered, and you said no, so it's your fault." It's just his stupid way of blame shifting onto me so it makes me look like the bad guy.

I could have said yes and we would have had sex. But I'm sorry. I'm tired of crappy, lazy sex. I'm tired of being the pursuer. Why can't he show a little enthusiasm? How am I suppose to suddenly be all hot and heavy for him while he lays there like a dead fish, and he won't even hold my hand or kiss me unless we are having sex.

I have school until late late tonight. So no sex until at least tomorrow. But I am so turned off at this point who even knows if we will have sex then.

I'm horny, I'm cranky. And I have a mid-term tonight and won't be able to concentrate. Great.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If I was out with my husband no matter who was with us, and he rebuffed my efforts to hold hands, I would not be making ANY further efforts for any sort of intimacy for quite some time!

CW, it's one thing for a woman to have difficulty orgasming due to her own unfounded neurotic thoughts, but you are given pretty clear signals that he isn't interested...in you, in sex with you, in showing you he is attracted to you, in making you feel loved or cherished.

Stop chasing him.
Stop asking for a kiss
Stop asking for a hug
Stop asking for sex
Do not agree to have sex unless he has been emotionally intimate and affectionate toward you.

I don't think you are specifically horny. You are starved for affection and to you that translates as desire for sex. You feel rebuffed and sex is an excellent way to reconnect. 

Keep a log of your attempts to be affectionate, and his responses.

You need to back away from him. Don't be so available and so eager. He is not responding well to it and it's making it far too easy for your lazy clueless husband.


----------



## pierrematoe

*LD Husband Journal*

Pink is nailing this for you CW. Listen to her advice. I feel awful for what you are going through.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> If I was out with my husband no matter who was with us, and he rebuffed my efforts to hold hands, I would not be making ANY further efforts for any sort of intimacy for quite some time!
> 
> CW, it's one thing for a woman to have difficulty orgasming due to her own unfounded neurotic thoughts, but you are given pretty clear signals that he isn't interested...in you, in sex with you, in showing you he is attracted to you, in making you feel loved or cherished.
> 
> Stop chasing him.
> Stop asking for a kiss
> Stop asking for a hug
> Stop asking for sex
> Do not agree to have sex unless he has been emotionally intimate and affectionate toward you.
> 
> I don't think you are specifically horny. You are starved for affection and to you that translates as desire for sex. You feel rebuffed and sex is an excellent way to reconnect.
> 
> Keep a log of your attempts to be affectionate, and his responses.
> 
> You need to back away from him. Don't be so available and so eager. He is not responding well to it and it's making it far too easy for your lazy clueless husband.


I'm there already. Last night I purposely went out of my way to not be close to him. I sat in a chair instead of on the couch with him. I took a movie and went to watch it in the bedroom instead of with him in the living room. He didn't seen to take the hint though because when he came to bed he still tried to spoon me and grope my breasts.  I grabbed his hand and pulled it away from me, without a word.

He knows I'm upset, but he prefers to just avoid it and pretend like everything is fine. 

He let another mushy note for me this morning. Instead of thinking it was sweet it just made me mad. He can talk the talk, but he never walks the walks. 

I don't even know how to act around him. The thought of him kissing me right now kind of disgusts me. If he tries to be affectionate do I let him? Do I push him away? Am I suppose to be mean, or pretend like everything is just peachy.? :scratchhead:

Help!


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

You're entering Rejectia. The land where clueless, lazy, or manipulative partners thrive. 

Stand back and contemplate what's happening. This is not a low-t or too tired issue. Find the reason. If you can't find a reason then find someone who does not need a reason.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW - I am a bit disappointed. I think you were way to passive on this. He manipulates you and you don't call him on it. Couple of thoughts on what transpired:



TheCuriousWife said:


> Saturday we went shopping and several times I tried to hold his hand. Every time he would clamp his fingers shut and pull away from me. Eventually I grabbed his arm with my other hand and tried to force my hand in his and told him "you can hold my hand."
> 
> He would not open his hand, and I fumbled for a few seconds before just backing off. His friend was with us and it was embarrassing. I would have started an argument right there but I didn't not want to a make a bigger scene. Of course the rest of the day it was bothering me.


You don't have to make a big scene, but don't let the presence of the friend give him a pass. I suspect he knows you would back down, so that emboldened him. If he does not want to acknowledge being with you, you won't burden him with your presence and then leave. Take a cab and leave him with your friend.



> That evening I waited and waited for him to make an advance, but nothing. Finally I asked him if we could have sex. He said, "no, not tonight." (So much for never rejecting me...) So then I asked if we could at least make out, and he said "nah." Later he promised we would have sex Sunday.


So he broke a promise, right. Did you let him know?



> Sunday rolls around and I decide I'm not asking again. By this point I'm pretty turned off. It's hard to get in the mood when you haven't kissed or touched for days. All day he makes comments about how tired he is, or how he has a headache...
> 
> He is sending out clear 'no sex tonight' signs. Okay I get it buddy, you don't have to keep acting it up. :banghead:


Call him on this. Tell him he has laid the ground work and you fully understand that he will have an excuse to not have sex. Now that you understand, could he please keep quiet so you can have some peace? Oh and next time he intends to break a promise, aks him to at least be a man and just tell you rather than hint around in a passive aggressive manner.



> He falls asleep on the couch at like 8pm as usual. Then wakes up later. And says, "if you want to go shower we can have sex if you want." I told him I wasn't really in the mood and he didn't say another thing about it.
> 
> I could tell it was obligatory and he really didn't want to do it. He will offer sex after it is really late, and after he has made it clear he doesn't want to. That way if I say something about never having sex he will say, "I offered, and you said no, so it's your fault." It's just his stupid way of blame shifting onto me so it makes me look like the bad guy.


Just tell him you don't want pity sex. Your toys would be better.



> I could have said yes and we would have had sex. But I'm sorry. I'm tired of crappy, lazy sex. I'm tired of being the pursuer. Why can't he show a little enthusiasm? How am I suppose to suddenly be all hot and heavy for him while he lays there like a dead fish, and he won't even hold my hand or kiss me unless we are having sex.


Tell him this straight out. I get your frustrated and want to make this work. But I think an occasional 2x4 to his head that you see what he is doing and are not impressed is important. He is back sliding, and you need to call him on it. Don't let him delude himself into thinking that you are fine with things. Just as you want to encourage positive behavior, you need to discourage the negative kind.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He let another mushy note for me this morning. Instead of thinking it was sweet it just made me mad. He can talk the talk, but he never walks the walks.


Crumple the note and leave it where he can see it.



> I don't even know how to act around him. The thought of him kissing me right now kind of disgusts me. If he tries to be affectionate do I let him? Do I push him away? Am I suppose to be mean, or pretend like everything is just peachy.? :scratchhead:
> 
> Help!


Why would you act like everything is peachy? He treated you like crap and now wants everything to be fine. Do you deserve that? If a boyfriend did this, would you jump into bed with him the minute he got affectionate? I tend to doubt it. 

Be very clear how you are feeling and don't let him pretend otherwise. He knows what is going on. Don't let him tell you otherwise.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he is showing you the kind of affection you want to see from him, it would be in your best interest to respond positively. 

There are a couple of ways you could stand your ground.

1. You could rebuff all of his efforts for affection and intimacy for a significant amount of time. If, on those occasions he wants sex and you deny sex he will eventually come to understand the seriousness of his complete ignorance in how to love his wife. Consequently, he will show some prolonged effort. Particularly if you remain ready to go right back to emotional estrangement the second he puts his arms out for distance and space.

This will also create conflict. You have to be ready for that.

2. You respond to all of his efforts for affection as well as his desire for sex, as long as he has been adequately affectionate toward you leading up to sex.

This will take a while for him to get the clear message that if he doesn't show a good amount of affection leading up to sex, he isn't getting sex.

This also signifies that if he doesn't want sex, he doesn't need to show affection either. A wrong idea IMO.

3. You could return his affection but deny him sex should he ask. As long as you are also very clear that you don't feel like having sex with someone who will only show affection and desire out of guilt, to get out of the dog house, or to get laid. When he can show affection all the time, and desire for you frequently, then sex can resume.

This will take a very clear image from you on what exactly you expect from him. Public affection, seeking your attention, showing desire and erotic seduction early in the day and not 5 minutes before bedtime.

CW, eventually you two will want kids. When kids happen everything is thrown up in the air. If you two can't get your marriage on track and healthy well before kids, you'll have little hope of surviving the impact of parenthood.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

You're looking for a solution when you haven't found the problem yet. People at his / your age are always in the mood. If he's the mayor of Rejectia at this stage of life there's a reason or three. Don't buy what he says. Think harder. Things do not happen for a reason. 

To me it sounds more about control and less about desire...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> CW - I am a bit disappointed. I think you were way to passive on this. He manipulates you and you don't call him on it. Couple of thoughts on what transpired:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to make a big scene, but don't let the presence of the friend give him a pass. I suspect he knows you would back down, so that emboldened him. If he does not want to acknowledge being with you, you won't burden him with your presence and then leave. Take a cab and leave him with your friend.
> 
> 
> 
> So he broke a promise, right. Did you let him know?
> 
> 
> 
> Call him on this. Tell him he has laid the ground work and you fully understand that he will have an excuse to not have sex. Now that you understand, could he please keep quiet so you can have some peace? Oh and next time he intends to break a promise, aks him to at least be a man and just tell you rather than hint around in a passive aggressive manner.
> 
> 
> 
> Just tell him you don't want pity sex. Your toys would be better.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell him this straight out. I get your frustrated and want to make this work. But I think an occasional 2x4 to his head that you see what he is doing and are not impressed is important. He is back sliding, and you need to call him on it. Don't let him delude himself into thinking that you are fine with things. Just as you want to encourage positive behavior, you need to discourage the negative kind.


These are all great suggestions! I want to slap myself.

When things like this are happening I seem to just forget how to handle it. I wish I had a little ear bud with a TAM member telling me what to do. 

I messed up. Big time. Now what do I do?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> You're looking for a solution when you haven't found the problem yet. People at his / your age are always in the mood. If he's the mayor of Rejectia at this stage of life there's a reason or three. Don't buy what he says. Think harder. Things do not happen for a reason.
> 
> To me it sounds more about control and less about desire...


It is all about control with him. This is a very destructive pattern.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> You're looking for a solution when you haven't found the problem yet. People at his / your age are always in the mood. If he's the mayor of Rejectia at this stage of life there's a reason or three. Don't buy what he says. Think harder. Things do not happen for a reason.
> 
> To me it sounds more about control and less about desire...


Based on the exchange last weekend, I thought of control as well. Yes, lots of guys his age are ready every night. But there are some who as much of a need as that is, need control even more.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> If I was out with my husband no matter who was with us, and he rebuffed my efforts to hold hands, I would not be making ANY further efforts for any sort of intimacy for quite some time!
> 
> CW, it's one thing for a woman to have difficulty orgasming due to her own unfounded neurotic thoughts, but you are given pretty clear signals that he isn't interested...in you, in sex with you, in showing you he is attracted to you, in making you feel loved or cherished.
> 
> Stop chasing him.
> Stop asking for a kiss
> Stop asking for a hug
> Stop asking for sex
> Do not agree to have sex unless he has been emotionally intimate and affectionate toward you.
> 
> I don't think you are specifically horny. You are starved for affection and to you that translates as desire for sex. You feel rebuffed and sex is an excellent way to reconnect.
> 
> Keep a log of your attempts to be affectionate, and his responses.
> 
> You need to back away from him. Don't be so available and so eager. He is not responding well to it and it's making it far too easy for your lazy clueless husband.


I wish I can "LIKE" this 100000x


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> 3. You could return his affection but deny him sex should he ask. As long as you are also very clear that you don't feel like having sex with someone who will only show affection and desire out of guilt, to get out of the dog house, or to get laid. When he can show affection all the time, and desire for you frequently, then sex can resume.
> 
> This will take a very clear image from you on what exactly you expect from him. Public affection, seeking your attention, showing desire and erotic seduction early in the day and not 5 minutes before bedtime.


So if I'm understanding correctly, #3 is your recommendation? We can kiss, snuggle, etc. But no sex. 



> CW, eventually you two will want kids. When kids happen everything is thrown up in the air. If you two can't get your marriage on track and healthy well before kids, you'll have little hope of surviving the impact of parenthood.


I did not want to mention this because I know people are going to freak out. But he has been BEGGING for children lately. I do NOT feel we are even close to ready for children, and I have put my foot down and told him no. But he is pretty firm on having children sooner rather than later. His parents are older, and he grew up without grandparents himself, so he wants to have children asap. He is talking in the next year. 

I am not okay with it, and I won't be giving in. But it is going to be a source of major conflict.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> These are all great suggestions! I want to slap myself.
> 
> When things like this are happening I seem to just forget how to handle it. I wish I had a little ear bud with a TAM member telling me what to do.
> 
> I messed up. Big time. Now what do I do?


First off, forgive yourself. We all screw these things up, so don't beat yourself up over it.

Next, lay out for him now (or maybe tomorrow, after your mid-term). Let him know you have thought through the events of last weekend and what happened was unacceptable. If he had treated you like that on your third date, there never would have been a fourth one.

Point out the broken promises, the passive aggressive behavior and the control issues (which is where the P.A. stuff comes from). Ask him what he is going to do to fix this. Don't give him hints. He is smart enough to know what is going on. Make clear that right now, you don't want to touch him or be around him because of his actions.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good ideas tall average guy.


I know how it will go down. I will tell him everything that has been bothering me. Then he will apologize and seem sincere, and snuggle me, and then talk me into having sex, and say how he will never do it again. Blah blah blah.

I have already texted a girlfriend to see if she wants to go see a movie Tuesday. That way I can get away from him, and not be temped to give in.


----------



## pierrematoe

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> So if I'm understanding correctly, #3 is your recommendation? We can kiss, snuggle, etc. But no sex.
> 
> 
> 
> I did not want to mention this because I know people are going to freak out. But he has been BEGGING for children lately. I do NOT feel we are even close to ready for children, and I have put my foot down and told him no. But he is pretty firm on having children sooner rather than later. His parents are older, and he grew up without grandparents himself, so he wants to have children asap. He is talking in the next year.
> 
> I am not okay with it, and I won't be giving in. But it is going to be a source of major conflict.



Stick to your guns. You can't add another child into your relationship with the current one


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You bringing a child into this world NOW would be hell for you. 

You already do the normal "grown up" things around the house while your husband prances around like a little boy playing video games and having guy sleep overs which to me is beyond weird for an adult married guy. He also visits his parents 3 days a week!? He's afraid to be alone for more than 2 hours. 

Sorry if you feel like I am beating your husband up but he's deserves it. 

He is very immature and as I stated before has no business being married. He is too young...


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Good ideas tall average guy.
> 
> 
> I know how it will go down. I will tell him everything that has been bothering me. Then he will apologize and seem sincere, and snuggle me, and then talk me into having sex, and say how he will never do it again. Blah blah blah.


When he does this, consider saying that right now, you don't know that you believe him. He knew what he was doing over the weekend and it was intentional. So why should you believe he won't do it again.

I think making it uncomfortable for him is the key. Because I am guessing he thinks he can talk his way out of this.



> I have already texted a girlfriend to see if she wants to go see a movie Tuesday. That way I can get away from him, and not be temped to give in.


I like this idea. Talk with him, then say you need some space and are heading out for the evening with a girlfriend.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> You bringing a child into this world NOW would be hell for you.
> 
> You already do the normal "grown up" things around the house while your husband prances around like a little boy playing video games and having guy sleep overs which to me is beyond weird for an adult married guy. He also visits his parents 3 days a week!? He's afraid to be alone for more than 2 hours.
> 
> Sorry if you feel like I am beating your husband up but he's deserves it.
> 
> He is very immature and as I stated before has no business being married. He is too young...


His friend stayed the night Friday. 

And he is staying the night with his friend this Saturday. 

He goes to his parents 2 times a week although 3 isn't super uncommon. 

Yes. It feels like I am the only grownup in the house sometimes.


----------



## NostalgicOne

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This type of relationship(where I initiated and he had LD) went on for several yrs in my 16yr marriage. 
During the divorce I found out why, when the computer programmer hacked thru the hard drive they saw he had been sleeping with BOTH men and women for SEVERAL years,infact still seeing exs from high school some 30yrs ago I had no clue about.
Divorce was a blessing and an end to a very frustrating sex life. Now how to trust again is my seemingly unsurmountable problem.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I wonder if he considers how much a child would cut into his gaming and napping time! 

Or perhaps he assumes you would do all of that stuff and his life would go on as he likes it?? 

Don't be hard on yourself, curious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> When he does this, consider saying that right now, you don't know that you believe him. He knew what he was doing over the weekend and it was intentional. So why should you believe he won't do it again.
> 
> I think making it uncomfortable for him is the key. Because I am guessing he thinks he can talk his way out of this.
> 
> 
> I like this idea. Talk with him, then say you need some space and are heading out for the evening with a girlfriend.


Your right. I make it too comfortable and easy for him. He knows he can talk me into anything.

Sadly I just got off the phone with my friend. She can't hang out until Thursday. So I'm stuck at home with him tomorrow.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I wonder if he considers how much a child would cut into his gaming and napping time!
> 
> Or perhaps he assumes you would do all of that stuff and his life would go on as he likes it??
> 
> Don't be hard on yourself, curious.


I've told him that over and over.

I said I AM NOT taking care of ANOTHER child. I am not adding more chores, and doing more. I know if we had a child I would be doing all the work.

He swears up and down that he will help, and he will take care of it, and blah blah blah.

In his defense he will be a good father. He is wonderful with kids. In fact he is wonderful to everyone except for me. Everyone loves him. 

I have already told him I will not even consider a child until he proves by showing and doing that he will help me around the house etc.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Your right. I make it too comfortable and easy for him. He knows he can talk me into anything.
> 
> Sadly I just got off the phone with my friend. She can't hang out until Thursday. So I'm stuck at home with him tomorrow.


Why? Go to a movie yourself. Or to the coffee shop or the library or whereever you can go to relax.

Because I think being away from him to prevent him from trying to talk you into things is good for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Why? Go to a movie yourself. Or to the coffee shop or the library or whereever you can go to relax.
> 
> Because I think being away from him to prevent him from trying to talk you into things is good for you.


Library & Coffee will be closed in the evening. But maybe I can go pay my mother a visit. She would like that, and she just got out of the hospital.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Next time he brings up a child tell him he doesn't help now so how could you possibly believe anything would be different then!

I am reminded of the times my children swore they would feed, walk, groom and train the puppy they desperately wanted! Hah! Have never ever heard of any family where the kids have ever lived up to those promises...have you?


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You honestly seem to be missing the fact that the cycle just continues over and over and over and over and over again. Every week people on here try to answer the same set of questions, and that's because nothing is really changing, and nothing will change. You act as if this is something that can be fixed. It can't. 

*YOU CAN'T FORCE HIM TO FEEL SOMETHING HE ISN'T FEELING.*
You can bet that if he wanted to hold your hand, to kiss you etc, he wouldn't even think twice about it, he'd just go for it. Some people don't like PDA, and that's fine, but then he'd be showing you this affection at home. 

He can't magically feel like showing you affection, because you try to force it. I mean did I read this right, you tried to seriously force him to hold your hand? You're making yourself look very sad and little in front of him. 

Look, he's either non affectionate and low sex drive, or he's not as into you as you're into him. There's no fixing the situation. Do you want to be with your husband and accept him for who he is knowing that you'll be frustrated every other week by some stupid action on his part? If not then take matters into your hands and stop acting like a victim. 

You call him childish but your responses to certain issues are BEYOND childish.

"I'm mad so I'll watch my movie in my room and sit in silence to let him know I'm mad. ":scratchhead: I mean really? Grow up. That's how kids in high school deal with relationship issues.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> You honestly seem to be missing the fact that the cycle just continues over and over and over and over and over again. Every week people on here try to answer the same set of questions, and that's because nothing is really changing, and nothing will change. You act as if this is something that can be fixed. It can't.
> 
> *YOU CAN'T FORCE HIM TO FEEL SOMETHING HE ISN'T FEELING.*
> You can bet that if he wanted to hold your hand, to kiss you etc, he wouldn't even think twice about it, he'd just go for it. Some people don't like PDA, and that's fine, but then he'd be showing you this affection at home.
> 
> He can't magically feel like showing you affection, because you try to force it. I mean did I read this right, you tried to seriously force him to hold your hand? You're making yourself look very sad and little in front of him.
> 
> Look, he's either non affectionate and low sex drive, or he's not as into you as you're into him. There's no fixing the situation. Do you want to be with your husband and accept him for who he is knowing that you'll be frustrated every other week by some stupid action on his part? If not then take matters into your hands and stop acting like a victim.
> 
> You call him childish but your responses to certain issues are BEYOND childish.
> 
> "I'm mad so I'll watch my movie in my room and sit in silence to let him know I'm mad. ":scratchhead: I mean really? Grow up. That's how kids in high school deal with relationship issues.



This all may be true. But I'm just trying to make the best out of the situation that I am in. 

I don't think that I should have to just sit there and put up with it and never work on our issues just because "that is how he is."

If you have a child that throws temper tantrums everyday you don't just let him do it and say, "Oh that's just how he is." No, you try to correct the behavior.

I'll admit I don't handle everything as mature as I should. I'll admit I don't know everything about everything. 

But obviously you have all the answers, so please share how I should act in times like this?

If my story annoys people, and everyone is tired of my redundancy please let me know and I will be happy to discontinue posting this thread.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Curious, you need to get to the root cause of the issue:

- he is not interested in sex in general due to upbringing culture etc. Punt.

- he has control issues and wants to see you squirm. PUNT.

- he is immature beyond belief and does not see the connection between physical intimacy and the rest of the marriage. Punt.

- he's too lazy. Punt.

- he prioritizes others before you. Punt.

- he lacks proper role models for treating a wife. Punt. 

- he's afraid of coming too close or opening up to you. Investigate.

How am I doing?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> Curious, you need to get to the root cause of the issue:
> 
> - he is not interested in sex in general due to upbringing culture etc. Punt.
> 
> - he has control issues and wants to see you squirm. PUNT.
> 
> - he is immature beyond belief and does not see the connection between physical intimacy and the rest of the marriage. Punt.
> 
> - he's too lazy. Punt.
> 
> - he prioritizes others before you. Punt.
> 
> - he lacks proper role models for treating a wife. Punt.
> 
> - he's afraid of coming too close or opening up to you. Investigate.
> 
> How am I doing?



I don't think I get your drift?

He is all of those things. 

Except the last one. I don't think he is afraid of anything like that. I think you guys are making him more complicated than he is. He has nothing in his past that would cause him any kind of trauma or emotional problems. 

I think he is just immature, selfish, and clueless.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Actually I don't think he is controlling at all either. I know a lot of you guys say that, but that really isn't his personality.

All these things he does, I don't think he is trying to "control" me. I think it just comes off that way.

If anything I am the controlling one out of us. 

I have a bit of OCD, and like to plan, etc.

He could care less about anything pretty much. He is a stop and smell the roses kind of guy. Everything is good, everything will work out mentality.

I make most/all major decisions, such as when we remodeled our house. I chose paint colors, decorations... things like that. He just says, "what ever you want."

He has never wanted to be in control of anything. When he says no to sex I don't see that as he is trying to control it, I see it as he really just doesn't want sex and that's all the thought he puts into it. 

He isn't a scheming mastermind. Really.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Actually I don't think he is controlling at all either. I know a lot of you guys say that, but that really isn't his personality.
> 
> All these things he does, I don't think he is trying to "control" me. I think it just comes off that way.
> 
> If anything I am the controlling one out of us.
> 
> I have a bit of OCD, and like to plan, etc.
> 
> He could care less about anything pretty much. He is a stop and smell the roses kind of guy. Everything is good, everything will work out mentality.
> 
> I make most/all major decisions, such as when we remodeled our house. I chose paint colors, decorations... things like that. He just says, "what ever you want."
> 
> He has never wanted to be in control of anything. When he says no to sex I don't see that as he is trying to control it, I see it as he really just doesn't want sex and that's all the thought he puts into it.
> 
> He isn't a scheming mastermind. Really.


John is smack on the money.

A person doesn't have to need to control everything. But look at your sex life, does anything ever happen unless it was his idea? Even if his idea is to offer duty sex after you have gotten angry, it isn't in response to your loving gestures. It's after a time has happened and THEN he'll give the go ahead. On His time at His discretion.

I can be angry as hell at my husband and all he has to do is back me against the wall and kiss me and I melt like a puddle of pudding. That's responsive. If he attempted, I pushed him away, waited and then have the go ahead, that's controlling.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> John is smack on the money.
> 
> A person doesn't have to need to control everything. But look at your sex life, does anything ever happen unless it was his idea? Even if his idea is to offer duty sex after you have gotten angry, it isn't in response to your loving gestures. It's after a time has happened and THEN he'll give the go ahead. On His time at His discretion.
> 
> I can be angry as hell at my husband and all he has to do is back me against the wall and kiss me and I melt like a puddle of pudding. That's responsive. If he attempted, I pushed him away, waited and then have the go ahead, that's controlling.


I stand corrected.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hmm. Now I'm wondering what would happen if I straddled him and told him I wanted to have sex now. Right this second.

I don't remember the last time we had sex when I actually asked.

He never says yes then gets right to it. It's always, "in a little bit" or "after I'm done with this."

I might have to bring that up at our next _business meeting_.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Walk softly and carry a cast iron frying pan!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> John is smack on the money.
> 
> A person doesn't have to need to control everything. But look at your sex life, does anything ever happen unless it was his idea?


It appears that it is not just sex, but intimacy in general. Note his unwillingness to even hold your hand while shopping. He needed to control even that.

So perhaps he is uncomfortable with intimacy unless he controls it. That he won't or can't do so in public or in front of others speaks to that. I recall that you said he had no major traumas growing up, but it would not be uncommon for him not to disclose those to you if they had occured.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Men rarely ever disclose.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am 100% sure that he has no trauma. 

We've known each other since we were practically babies.

His family is like literately the nicest family on earth.

You'll just have to take my word for it. 

I'm the one with the dysfunctional childhood.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Perhaps it could be that some of us are twice your age and can take guesses without being fogged.

Human behavior is complex but not too complex to the point that everything is a surprise. I mean, sure, the guy could go to the Mayo Clinic and be diagnosed with a bizarre tropical insect bite that kills libido from his days in Tahiti as a Peace Corps volunteer. But that's unlikely so we have to go thru the list of options and weed out the unlikely ones. 

If you think he matches one or several of the items in the list you need to think about how to address those or work around them or learn to live with them. I know it sounds a bit too detached but I've earned my stripes in the detachment game.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am 100% sure that he has no trauma.
> 
> We've known each other since we were practically babies.
> 
> His family is like literately the nicest family on earth.
> 
> You'll just have to take my word for it.
> 
> I'm the one with the dysfunctional childhood.


I used to think that too! My family were obviously dysfunctional. His family were not....obvious....in their dysfunction. Dysfunction meaning not meeting the emotional and physical needs of the family member individually. 

They are very kind people. Soft spoken, traditional roles, kids active in church, choir boys, girls chorus, paper routs.... They are cold. They lack emotion. They all have some form of anxiety issue. They are all passive aggressive to at least some degree. They love each other but they are NOT perfect. They produced a man who doesn't know how to express himself at all. A man who can't identify or communicate feelings, a man who had to be taught to compliment his wife, to show passion before he gets to the bedroom, a man who in the early years also didn't show much awareness of his wife's sexual pleasure. A man who thinks his silence means approval and his cold shoulder means disapproval.

It doesn't really matter what his past is. What really matters is his future. Is it going to filled with power struggles over how to adequately love his wife? That's up to him to decide and it's up to you to accept or not. 

Age alone won't cure his immaturity. He doesn't know how to show love. He only knows how to accept love. 

That's pretty messed up don't you think?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am 100% sure that he has no trauma.
> 
> We've known each other since we were practically babies.
> 
> His family is like literately the nicest family on earth.
> 
> You'll just have to take my word for it.
> 
> I'm the one with the dysfunctional childhood.


I worked at a bank for this really great guy. Salt of the earth type. Very active in his church, taught CCD, wife and kids were wonderful. Everyone that the world of him. He used to sit down with all the senior citizens and help them balance their checkbooks, manage their bills. Their kids would come in raving about how he was taking care of Mom and Pop and allowing them to be independent a little while longer. He was truly loved.

Except he was stealing from them to pay for the gifts to his mistress. Taking a couple hunder bucks every so often. He ended up being sentenced to 15 years in prison.

I have no idea what if anything happened to your husband. But I remember this anecdote any time I start thinking I know some one and what happens in their family. Because I don't, not really.

But I would suggest asking your husband out right. Why does he need to be in control of when you have sex? Don't take "I don't know" for an answer.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Age alone won't cure his immaturity. He doesn't know how to show love. He only knows how to accept love.
> 
> That's pretty messed up don't you think?


Yes it is messed up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> But I would suggest asking your husband out right. Why does he need to be in control of when you have sex? Don't take "I don't know" for an answer.


He will not give me an answer. He always just denys denys denys


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He will not give me an answer. He always just denys denys denys


Then ask him why he needs to control sex and affection? And when he denies it, ask him to remind you of the last 3 times you two had sex by your direct initiation. IOW, you made the moves and he immediately responded. Doesn't matter what else was going on and he will give you a TON of excuses and reasons why this time or that time wasn't good. Bottom line, he controls all sex and affection. Why?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Then ask him why he needs to control sex and affection? And when he denies it, ask him to remind you of the last 3 times you two had sex by your direct initiation. IOW, you made the moves and he immediately responded. Doesn't matter what else was going on and he will give you a TON of excuses and reasons why this time or that time wasn't good. Bottom line, he controls all sex and affection. Why?


I wish I knew. :scratchhead:

I'll be asking him again.

As a side note he just called me and told me he will be working late tonight, so I won't see him before school. He will be asleep when I get home. 

Coincidence? Avoidance? Who knows.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Avoidance!


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I say this with all the compassion and empathy of a fellow (formerly) sexually/emotionally starved spouse could possibly have...

Wake. The. Hell. Up!!

Your husband IS controlling, manipulative, selfish, stupid, petty, childish, lazy, and a million other things including IMO possibly gay or bi. And yet you continue to GIVE and GIVE and GIVE. 

What the hell is wrong with people that they NOT ONLY let their spouce treat them like sh1t, but turn around and give and love and praise and defend them??? Is he so amazingly special that you are willing to take any treatment that he dishes out? Are you so LUCKY to have HIM that you'll just suck it up and hope it changes? Hope if you love him enough, he'll love you back? And when you've given all you can for as many years as you can take, I hope you have something left to give to a man who will treat you right.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Curious, I say this with all the compassion and empathy of a fellow (formerly) sexually/emotionally starved spouse could possibly have...
> 
> Wake. The. Hell. Up!!
> 
> Your husband IS controlling, manipulative, selfish, stupid, petty, childish, lazy, and a million other things including IMO possibly gay or bi. And yet you continue to GIVE and GIVE and GIVE.
> 
> What the hell is wrong with people that they NOT ONLY let their spouce treat them like sh1t, but turn around and give and love and praise and defend them??? Is he so amazingly special that you are willing to take any treatment that he dishes out? Are you so LUCKY to have HIM that you'll just suck it up and hope it changes? Hope if you love him enough, he'll love you back? And when you've given all you can for as many years as you can take, I hope you have something left to give to a man who will treat you right.


Yes, that's exactly how it works. If we love well enough it will be returned well enough. It can take a long while before reality becomes clear.

I think CW is coming along nicely! She's getting her boundaries in order, she's giving out consequences when they get violated. It's a tricky business to learn all of this. Takes time. Mistakes get made.

Ease up dude. She's doing alright. She's gonna get there.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry, I'm not specifically bashing Curious. You're right Anon, that is how it works in a functional relationship. But some people are just takers. They take and take and never give anything back and abuse and neglect. It makes me so sad to see a good woman like curious give so much and get so little. You're right she is making progress, but I don't think it's fast enough or genuine on her husbands part. But I'm not there, so I don't know.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No sex since Thursday...
> 
> No kissing or touching since Thursday!
> 
> Saturday we went shopping and several times I tried to hold his hand. Every time he would clamp his fingers shut and pull away from me. Eventually I grabbed his arm with my other hand and tried to force my hand in his and told him "you can hold my hand."
> 
> He would not open his hand, and I fumbled for a few seconds before just backing off. His friend was with us and it was embarrassing. I would have started an argument right there but I didn't not want to a make a bigger scene. Of course the rest of the day it was bothering me.
> 
> I think him rejecting things like that hurts worse than when he rejects sex. Sex does take some time and effort, so I guess I can understand if he doesn't feel like it. But really, how does holding my hand take any effort, or take any time.
> 
> That evening I waited and waited for him to make an advance, but nothing. Finally I asked him if we could have sex. He said, "no, not tonight." (So much for never rejecting me...) So then I asked if we could at least make out, and he said "nah." Later he promised we would have sex Sunday.
> 
> Sunday rolls around and I decide I'm not asking again. By this point I'm pretty turned off. It's hard to get in the mood when you haven't kissed or touched for days. All day he makes comments about how tired he is, or how he has a headache...
> 
> He is sending out clear 'no sex tonight' signs. Okay I get it buddy, you don't have to keep acting it up. :banghead:
> 
> He falls asleep on the couch at like 8pm as usual. Then wakes up later. And says, "if you want to go shower we can have sex if you want." I told him I wasn't really in the mood and he didn't say another thing about it.
> 
> I could tell it was obligatory and he really didn't want to do it. He will offer sex after it is really late, and after he has made it clear he doesn't want to. That way if I say something about never having sex he will say, "I offered, and you said no, so it's your fault." It's just his stupid way of blame shifting onto me so it makes me look like the bad guy.
> 
> I could have said yes and we would have had sex. But I'm sorry. I'm tired of crappy, lazy sex. I'm tired of being the pursuer. Why can't he show a little enthusiasm? How am I suppose to suddenly be all hot and heavy for him while he lays there like a dead fish, and he won't even hold my hand or kiss me unless we are having sex.
> 
> I have school until late late tonight. So no sex until at least tomorrow. But I am so turned off at this point who even knows if we will have sex then.
> 
> I'm horny, I'm cranky. And I have a mid-term tonight and won't be able to concentrate. Great.


CW, here we go again for another round. You ask for some affection, he backs off. You get pissed, and then there is a stand off. Then he conveniently makes a feeble attempt to give you something when he knows you will turn it down.

This is a very bad and destructive cycle. It is a bad childish game that both of you take part in. Sorry to say, but I think you fuel the game as well.

Call him up and tell him you want to talk to him and let him know what you wanted, and what you felt with his rejection.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Sorry, I'm not specifically bashing Curious. You're right Anon, that is how it works in a functional relationship. But some people are just takers. They take and take and never give anything back and abuse and neglect. It makes me so sad to see a good woman like curious give so much and get so little. You're right she is making progress, but I don't think it's fast enough or genuine on her husbands part. But I'm not there, so I don't know.


Thanks and I apologize if I was over the top. I tend to do that... I didn't intend to make you feel attacked, for what it's worth.


----------



## I Don't Know

Anon Pink said:


> Thanks and I apologize if I was over the top. I tend to do that... I didn't intend to make you feel attacked, for what it's worth.


No, you're right. It's a bit of a trigger for me when good, sweet, caring women are taken for granted. I have a lot of issues about the way my GFs XH treated her and how hard she fought to keep that relationship. And I was venting that in my post. And I apologize for that.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We all get triggered by stuff in TAM. It's good to recognize it, even after the fact.

We're okay.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This all may be true. But I'm just trying to make the best out of the situation that I am in.
> 
> I don't think that I should have to just sit there and put up with it and never work on our issues just because "that is how he is."
> 
> If you have a child that throws temper tantrums everyday you don't just let him do it and say, "Oh that's just how he is." No, you try to correct the behavior.
> 
> I'll admit I don't handle everything as mature as I should. I'll admit I don't know everything about everything.
> 
> But obviously you have all the answers, so please share how I should act in times like this?
> 
> If my story annoys people, and everyone is tired of my redundancy please let me know and I will be happy to discontinue posting this thread.


Look, I'm sorry you're upset with me. When I write I never mean to offend you, it just comes out harsh. My apologies.

I'm not saying you should "sit there and put up with it." In fact what I'm saying is the total opposite, I'm saying change something drastically or don't be surprised when you get the same exact results after you indulge in the same old cycle. Over and over again. 

Your story isn't annoying, it's completely frustrating. I'm not saying I know everything. All I'm saying is don't act like a petulant child and then accuse him of acting like a petulant child.

You mentioned that you have a bit of a controlling or "planning" streak and I can see that in your posts. You're very obsessive about planning for when you guys should have sex and figuring out how many hours or days you'll go without if you don't do it at this exact time and on and on and on. If he's experiencing or sensing this it could be a huge turn off. I mean I get a bit annoyed reading it. If he's dealing with it he's probably thinking "woah, relax." Don't make it such a tedious scheduled thing and he won't treat it like one.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Or let me put it another way. Sometimes I feel claustrophobic reading your posts. It’s as if your sex life was stripped of any spontaneity. Maybe you guys should switch up the atmosphere. Go have sex in a hotel room. Or wear a blindfold. Or anything else that would break this strange monotone routine.

And figure out what happened with the hand holding situation. Does he dislike PDA (this is something I can completely relate to since I hate PDA, but if my wife wanted to hold hands you can bet I would hold her hand in public). Does he have sweaty hands, if so maybe he was just embarrassed? Maybe he didn’t want his guy friend seeing him be affectionate? Maybe he wasn’t feeling well. When I feel sick I dislike bodily contact. Either way this is something you should get to the bottom of.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry MeatTrain. Just frustrated here. Not trying to be snippy.

I'll admit I do plan out our sex life, count the days etc. 

I didn't used to be like that. But I think I kind of go into survival mode. Because I know what days and what times he will or won't have sex. 

So if we miss a time when I know he would usually have sex, then I feel frustrated because I know it will be blank many days until he will again. 

It's hard to describe. But he is pretty strict about what time, what day. He also absolutely will not do it twice in a row. So I feel like I have to "plan" when we can do it around his "schedule."

We don't discuss how our sex life is planned. It's just like an unspoken rule he made. I know I won't get sex on Mondays, or in the morning, or after we did it the day before, etc. So I don't even ask. 

It's weird, I know. I don't like it, but it was kind of the agreement we made so he didn't feel pressured to give me more sex, and I didn't ask as much and get rejected. Compromise.

About spicing it up. He wants to spice it up but refuses to do anything. I've tried blindfolds, I've tried having my way with him, I've suggested and/or tried many things but he just refuses and comes up with a reason not to. I'm at a loss of what to try next.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Last night while I was gone he cleaned the kitchen and put away laundry.

This morning he woke me up and said that he thinks we need to spend more time together, so he has decided we are going to start going on date nights every other week. 

He knows something is up, and bless his heart he wants to make it better. It's like he just doesn't comprehend intimacy and sex. He knows I get upset about it, but he tries to fix it by helping around the house, buying me presents, etc. Instead of working on the actual problem. 

It's not that he doesn't try, he just doesn't work on the correct thing. 

I think our love languages are different. 

He thinks the presents, and the helping should be enough to show that he loves me. He doesn't realize I need the affection and touch. 

I am weak guys. 

This morning he left another note saying that he knows I miss sex and that if I want we can do it as soon as he gets home from work if I'm ready and waiting.

I know he only likes night sex, so that is a peace offering. 

We are going to have the talk tonight. I am just going to calmly tell him that I need more affection, and that he really hurt my feeling when he refused to hold my hand. 

But I'm torn about sex. It's been 5 stinking days, that's like a lifetime for me. 

I don't know if we should have the talk, and see where it goes.Or if we should have the talk, and continue refusing sex for a while. I know what I want, and what I should do are two different things. 

Gr. Why is this so hard for me.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Has he read the Five Love Languages? If not, you should ask him to. Perhaps that would give him a better understanding.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Has he read the Five Love Languages? If not, you should ask him to. Perhaps that would give him a better understanding.


I have read most of it.

I was thinking of that when I wrote the above post. I think one of my friends has it, I'll have to borrow it for him. I have been meaning to, but kept forgetting it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The both of you should read it (perhaps together) and then take the quiz to determine your love languages. It is a very helpful book and I think you both would benefit from reading it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> The both of you should read it (perhaps together) and then take the quiz to determine your love languages. It is a very helpful book and I think you both would benefit from reading it.


I have taken the quiz. My highest score was physical touch.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with you having sex with him today - unless this somehow turns into a blow job or hand job for him.

However, it's a cycle that has become quite predictable. I know how that goes as I see a pattern with my own H. Both our husbands can be very lazy when it comes to sex. Things are good, things slow down, things take a turn for the worse, we 'punish' or confront, they say they are sorry, repeat. Repeat, repeat.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know he only likes night sex, so that is a peace offering.


On his terms.



> We are going to have the talk tonight. I am just going to calmly tell him that I need more affection, and that he really hurt my feeling when he refused to hold my hand.
> 
> But I'm torn about sex. It's been 5 stinking days, that's like a lifetime for me.
> 
> I don't know if we should have the talk, and see where it goes.Or if we should have the talk, and continue refusing sex for a while. I know what I want, and what I should do are two different things.


Will having sex with him on his terms align your words with your actions?

To me, if you have sex, you are saying apology accepted and let's continue as we were. Is that the message you intend to communicate?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with you having sex with him today - unless this somehow turns into a blow job or hand job for him.
> 
> However, it's a cycle that has become quite predictable. I know how that goes as I see a pattern with my own H. Both our husbands can be very lazy when it comes to sex. Things are good, things slow down, things take a turn for the worse, we 'punish' or confront, they say they are sorry, repeat. Repeat, repeat.


Yep. We both seem to have the same cycle. One month of good, one month of bad. Repeat.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> On his terms.
> 
> Will having sex with him on his terms align your words with your actions?
> 
> To me, if you have sex, you are saying apology accepted and let's continue as we were. Is that the message you intend to communicate?


No it is definitely not what I want to communicate.

Although, if I make myself clear though and he agrees to work on our issues I don't mind his apology being accepted. 

The key here is I need to stay on top of watching for back sliding. I need to make sure he carries out his promises for the long term, and that if I feel my needs aren't being met that I put a stop to it right then and there. 

I keep letting it get too bad before I speak up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He wanted me to be ready and waiting tonight. I am for sure not going to be sitting there with a smile on my face in lingerie when he gets home.

I think we need to sit down and talk first, then see where it goes.

He needs to give me some answers.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am at least trying to make myself respond in different ways. Like you I am most comfortable sending passive aggressive warning shots. Suddenly being unavailable, giving the silent treatment, etc. Till he gets the message. 

It's my part of the dynamic and I need to stop that. A calm, reasonable discussion before things get to that point would be better.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Your husband just might be the only guy to ever do house work and buy gifts trying to get OUT of sex!?


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Your husband just might be the only guy to ever do house work and buy gifts trying to get OUT of sex!?


:rofl:

Whereas I do the housework, cook, etc to get more sex...although lately it has not been working in my favor :scratchhead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Your husband just might be the only guy to ever do house work and buy gifts trying to get OUT of sex!?


:lol::lol:

I had never thought of it that way. That is freaking HILARIOUS!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No it is definitely not what I want to communicate.
> 
> Although, if I make myself clear though and he agrees to work on our issues I don't mind his apology being accepted.


Nothing wrong with that. The key is to be aware of what you want and clear about it with him. No mixed messages.



> The key here is I need to stay on top of watching for back sliding. I need to make sure he carries out his promises for the long term, and that if I feel my needs aren't being met that I put a stop to it right then and there.
> 
> I keep letting it get too bad before I speak up.


This is where you have work to do. In your earlier post, you mentioned not wanting to make a scene. But you can guard your boundaries without making a scene. And if you doing so causes tension and embarrassment for him, that is a consequence of his choices. Don't minimize those consequences for him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Nothing wrong with that. The key is to be aware of what you want and clear about it with him. No mixed messages.
> 
> 
> This is where you have work to do. In your earlier post, you mentioned not wanting to make a scene. But you can guard your boundaries without making a scene. And if you doing so causes tension and embarrassment for him, that is a consequence of his choices. Don't minimize those consequences for him.


Very good advice!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No, don't be ready and waiting.

This is the whole damn problem with him! How about you simply be ready to be seduced and if he can seduce you, great. If not it doesn't happen.

Be ready for sex.
You begin to touch from a cold state. It will take some doing and some effort to get your from 0-6 in order to be sufficiently aroused enough to go from 6-10 in order to orgasm.

Women don't work that way. Engage our minds before you engage our bodies. Don't reward lazy loving!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> No, don't be ready and waiting.
> 
> This is the whole damn problem with him! How about you simply be ready to be seduced and if he can seduce you, great. If not it doesn't happen.
> 
> Be ready for sex.
> You begin to touch from a cold state. It will take some doing and some effort to get your from 0-6 in order to be sufficiently aroused enough to go from 6-10 in order to orgasm.
> 
> Women don't work that way. Engage our minds before you engage our bodies. Don't reward lazy loving!


Don't worry Anon! 

I've already stated that I won't be ready and waiting.

I will be ready to be seduced. But it's going to take quite a bit of effort on his part to make me agreeable.

This goes for future love making too. I always have to get myself aroused, and in the right mindset. From now on, he is going to have to seduce, and romance me into sex. No more cold starting!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well we talked last night. 

He agrees that we should spend more time snuggling, holding hands, kissing, hugging. I told him I NEED physical affection. And not just 5 minutes before sex. I told him no more sex without him putting the time in before to warm me up.

I also brought up Saturday when he refused to hold my hand. He actually had a real excuse for that. His best friend just got dumped by his long time girl friend two weeks ago. Which I knew. He said he didn't want to hurt his friend's feeling by us being all mushy when he just broke up and "rubbing it in."

I told him that was nice of him, but it was not acceptable to hurt my feelings to spare his friend's feeling. I come first! He should have just told me, instead of acting the way he did. 

I spilled a bag of powdered sugar on my lap while cooking and when I was in the shower cleaning up he got in and surprised me. Then we got out and pulled out the sofa bed and watched one of our favorite tv shows. He played around with me while the show was on. No pressure for me. I just laid back and relaxed.

He also did oral on me for a while. He hadn't done that for several weeks, so that was nice. Call me a little tyrant, but I did not return the favor. I laid there and took my attention, and let him do all the work for once. It was nice.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I told him that was nice of him, but it was not acceptable to hurt my feelings to spare his friend's feeling. I come first! He should have just told me, instead of acting the way he did.


I think this was great. You heard him, understood and yet refused to let him off the hook. You should come first and you made that clear.

I am glad to hear about the rest of your evening.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well we talked last night.
> 
> He agrees that we should spend more time snuggling, holding hands, kissing, hugging. I told him I NEED physical affection. And not just 5 minutes before sex. I told him no more sex without him putting the time in before to warm me up.
> 
> I also brought up Saturday when he refused to hold my hand. He actually had a real excuse for that. His best friend just got dumped by his long time girl friend two weeks ago. Which I knew. He said he didn't want to hurt his friend's feeling by us being all mushy when he just broke up and "rubbing it in."
> 
> I told him that was nice of him, but it was not acceptable to hurt my feelings to spare his friend's feeling. I come first! He should have just told me, instead of acting the way he did.
> 
> I spilled a bag of powdered sugar on my lap while cooking and when I was in the shower cleaning up he got in and surprised me. Then we got out and pulled out the sofa bed and watched one of our favorite tv shows. He played around with me while the show was on. No pressure for me. I just laid back and relaxed.
> 
> He also did oral on me for a while. He hadn't done that for several weeks, so that was nice. Call me a little tyrant, but I did not return the favor. I laid there and took my attention, and let him do all the work for once. It was nice.


Very good 

Just ask that next time he has a reason for not holding your hand that he whisper something in your ear. And that he brings it up asap when he has you alone. If he had just whispered "Not right now, tell you later" and then told you later he would have made you feel a whole lot better, and you probably would have had some intimate time earlier - rather than the cycle of stand off.

Well, you got what you deserved in the end :smthumbup: Don't feel guilty.

After we get married, we have to learn a few things about our spouses. One of them is to not assume they are trying to hurt us and give them the benefit of the doubt until we talk to them about it.

Three cheers for you communication!


----------



## pierrematoe

*LD Husband Journal*

Curious - both our recent progress made in our marriages is great to hear. Like so many wonderful TAM friends have stated! it's a marathon not a sprint. Keeping the communication up is as important as everything else that needs to stay "up"

It's mine and your responsibility to keep them accountable


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks for the support guys!

Now to my grumble.

I went to the movies last night with girl friend. I got home around 10 and husband was asleep on couch. I asked him if we could have sex and he said no it was too late. 

So I went to bed, and he got up and played video games for over an hour.



I didn't realize until this morning. But hey, he's too tired to have sex, but he can stay awake for another hour and play video games. Gr.

Our sex average is not doing so good this month. We are barely making 2 times a week. Boo.

He is leaving tomorrow morning to go to friend's house and won't be back until Sunday evening. 

Yay. I get to spend the weekend alone.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I didn't realize until this morning. But hey, he's too tired to have sex, but he can stay awake for another hour and play video games. Gr.


Did you say that to him?



> He is leaving tomorrow morning to go to friend's house and won't be back until Sunday evening.
> 
> Yay. I get to spend the weekend alone.


Sorry, but I really don't get this aspect of your marriage. My wife and I each have separate guys/girls weekends (they go to a beach and shop, I go golfing). She has wine drinking and talk about kids, er I mean book club once a month, while I play poker 1-2 times a month with guys in the neighborhood.

But we want to spend time together. I don't understand taking off to a friends to spend the night so often. From your posts, it is not acceptable to you either. So what does he say when you tell him that.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hmmm...sex vs video game....that's a tough one!

I guess a CHILD would pick a video game and a MAN would pick sex

After reading many threads on here regarding video games it appears they really do separate Men from Boys.

As a man, I treat my wife as a video game adventure. I want to share and experience everything with her in our life...especially the sex adventures


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Did you say that to him?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I really don't get this aspect of your marriage. My wife and I each have separate guys/girls weekends (they go to a beach and shop, I go golfing). She has wine drinking and talk about kids, er I mean book club once a month, while I play poker 1-2 times a month with guys in the neighborhood.
> 
> But we want to spend time together. I don't understand taking off to a friends to spend the night so often. From your posts, it is not acceptable to you either. So what does he say when you tell him that.


No I didn't realize what had happened until this morning after he was gone for work. I was so tired last night, after he turned me down I fell right asleep. 

His friend is moving to a new apartment, so he is going to help him move furniture. I understand that's a good reason, that's nice. But there is always a "good" reason. 

We have talked about this before, and what it boiled down to was that just because I have no friend's doesn't mean he should have to sit at home and do nothing, or not hang out with anyone either. Which I kind of agree with. 

But at the same time, I'm not sure how I feel about him going away for the weekend and leaving me home alone. 

His friend lives an hour away so he say's it's not worth the drive just to go over there and visit for just the evening then come home.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> Hmmm...sex vs video game....that's a tough one!
> 
> I guess a CHILD would pick a video game and a MAN would pick sex
> 
> After reading many threads on here regarding video games it appears they really do separate Men from Boys.
> 
> As a man, I treat my wife as a video game adventure. I want to share and experience everything with her in our life...especially the sex adventures


Eh. I don't agree that video games make you less of a man.

As I've said before I really don't mind the video games. We both love to play. But I do mind when he chooses video games over me, or they take away from "us" time.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Does he have any hobbies other than video games, i.e., hunting, fishing, motorcycles, etc.? Outdoor type activities?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Does he have any hobbies other than video games, i.e., hunting, fishing, motorcycles, etc.? Outdoor type activities?


Oh yes. He loves camping, fishing, pretty much anything outdoors. We both do.

In the summer months video games are nearly nonexistent. We only play when we are stuck inside. 

He isn't staying up all night playing for hours. He plays a couple times a week for an hour or two.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No I didn't realize what had happened until this morning after he was gone for work. I was so tired last night, after he turned me down I fell right asleep.


Okay. Bring it up with him tonight.



> We have talked about this before, and what it boiled down to was that just because I have no friend's doesn't mean he should have to sit at home and do nothing, or not hang out with anyone either. Which I kind of agree with.


I hang out with my friends. I don't spend the night multiple times a month over at their house. But I also consider my wife a friend and spend time with her. What time do you two spend outside the house together?

On an aside, why don't you have any friends?



> But at the same time, I'm not sure how I feel about him going away for the weekend and leaving me home alone.
> 
> His friend lives an hour away so he say's it's not worth the drive just to go over there and visit for just the evening then come home.


Not necessarily. A good friend of mine lives 30-60 minutes away (depending on traffic). I visit, but still go home. 

Let's look at this from a different angle. What do you want? Ignore your husband, the games, the friends, what ever. How would the arrangement look if you had your wish?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

There is something that has been bothering me lately, which I could use some advice on.

Recently he has mentioned that him and his friend are going to go on a road trip for a few days... No he didn't ask, he was just like, "when me and ... go on our road trip this summer and go camping and etc."

I'm not sure how to respond to this. We have never went on a road trip together. We are going on one in June. But we are just going on a weekend so only taking off work one day. And it isn't for pleasure, we are picking something up.

We don't go on vacations or anything because we can't afford it. I don't understand how he suddenly can afford to go on one with his friend.

It bothers me that he didn't ask me. And honestly I don't want him gone for several days.

But last year I did go visit an out of town friend for a day and a half. So is it hypocritical of me to not want him to go?

I don't want to be the mean wife who says no. I think there is a fine line between overbearing, and just being realistic. 

What would you do?

I'd rather we go together as a couple and go on a road trip and go camping. Is it wrong of me? We've never even went camping together, although I've wanted to several times.

I'm not sure where to set boundaries. I realize he is the only one in his group of friends that is married. So the guys are out camping, and traveling, and having sleepovers. He has done this in the past. But he is married now. Should I expect him to stop?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Okay. Bring it up with him tonight.
> 
> I hang out with my friends. I don't spend the night multiple times a month over at their house. But I also consider my wife a friend and spend time with her. What time do you two spend outside the house together?


We don't spend a lot of time together besides just laying around the house. We go grocery shopping... 

That is something that we addressed just a few days ago though, and husband decided we are going to start doing date nights every couple weeks. So that will be good.



> On an aside, why don't you have any friends?


I am too busy for friends. I work, go to school, and try to run the house. I barely have time for myself. I have to decide between washing clothes or washing dishes sometimes. I meet myself coming and going.

I have one real friend. But she constantly travels, and is here today gone tomorrow. We hang out when we can. But she might be gone for months or a year or more at a time. Right now her long distance boyfriend is visiting, so she is spending all her time with him. We did go out to the movies last night. But before that it had been several weeks since I seen her, or any other of my friends.



> Not necessarily. A good friend of mine lives 30-60 minutes away (depending on traffic). I visit, but still go home.
> 
> Let's look at this from a different angle. What do you want? Ignore your husband, the games, the friends, what ever. How would the arrangement look if you had your wish?


How would my perfect relationship look? :scratchhead:

Well we would be having sex daily to start. 

But I'd like to do stuff together every weekend outside of the house. Even if it's just going for a walk at the park. 

Maybe a couple times a month have friends over and do stuff together like go out to the movies, or stay home and play board games. 

Then maybe once or twice a month spend time alone with our own friends. Like going out to lunch with my girlfriend, or him going to play poker at a buddies house. 

But I don't want the friend time to be more common then our alone time.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not sure where to set boundaries. I realize he is the only one in his group of friends that is married. So the guys are out camping, and traveling, and having sleepovers. He has done this in the past. But he is married now. Should I expect him to stop?


Sorry to sound like a broken record and I think others here would somewhat agree that your husband just wasn't ready for marriage. I now know you two are relatively young...early 20's? I'm not suggesting that getting married that young is a bad thing. Based on everything that I have read, it appears your husband fell to the pressure of getting married when in fact he really wasn't ready or perhaps "thought" he was ready. Maybe his parents pushed him? I dunno. Maybe it is a cultural thing? :scratchhead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> Sorry to sound like a broken record and I think others here would somewhat agree that your husband just wasn't ready for marriage. I now know you two are relatively young...early 20's? I'm not suggesting that getting married that young is a bad thing. Based on everything that I have read, it appears your husband fell to the pressure of getting married when in fact he really wasn't ready or perhaps "thought" he was ready. Maybe his parents pushed him? I dunno. Maybe it is a cultural thing? :scratchhead:


No one pushed him.

His parents wanted him to wait. And I was completely surprised when he proposed. I thought we were going to wait a few more years.

I don't regret marrying him this young. Sure I wish he was more grown up and mature. But life with him is 100x better than my life at my parent's home. I'm thankful everyday that I got married and got out of that mess.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not sure how to respond to this. We have never went on a road trip together. We are going on one in June. But we are just going on a weekend so only taking off work one day. And it isn't for pleasure, we are picking something up.
> 
> We don't go on vacations or anything because we can't afford it. I don't understand how he suddenly can afford to go on one with his friend.


So you two never vacation together, but he can go on a vacation with his friends. Why is that acceptable?



> But last year I did go visit an out of town friend for a day and a half. So is it hypocritical of me to not want him to go?


This is more like his trip this weekend than his road trip. I would equate the two.



> I'd rather we go together as a couple and go on a road trip and go camping. Is it wrong of me? We've never even went camping together, although I've wanted to several times.


So he likes to camp with his buddies, but not you.



> I'm not sure where to set boundaries. I realize he is the only one in his group of friends that is married. So the guys are out camping, and traveling, and having sleepovers. He has done this in the past. But he is married now. Should I expect him to stop?


No, but expecting you to be the focus, rather that his buddies is reasonable.

To me, it sounds like he wants to be single. He wants the guy time, but likes having you waiting in the wings.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> To me, it sounds like he wants to be single. He wants the guy time, but likes having you waiting in the wings.


What he said. I just didn't have it in me to really come out and say it. 

You are just a second mother to him.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Was he living at his parents before you two got married also?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That is something that we addressed just a few days ago though, and husband decided we are going to start doing date nights every couple weeks. So that will be good.


My apologies if I am getting may facts confused, but this appears to be less than the number of times that he goes out with his friends. So you get a date with him once every other week, but he heads out with friends at least once a week (for multipe days), correct?



> I am too busy for friends. I work, go to school, and try to run the house. I barely have time for myself. I have to decide between washing clothes or washing dishes sometimes. I meet myself coming and going.


Stop doing his washing and cooking. My recollection is that he expects you to do it. Why is that?



> I have one real friend. But she constantly travels, and is here today gone tomorrow. We hang out when we can. But she might be gone for months or a year or more at a time. Right now her long distance boyfriend is visiting, so she is spending all her time with him. We did go out to the movies last night. But before that it had been several weeks since I seen her, or any other of my friends.


Take some time for you. Leave him with some chores and make sure you have time to recharge.




> How would my perfect relationship look? :scratchhead:
> 
> Well we would be having sex daily to start.


Even I figured that part out on my own.



> But I'd like to do stuff together every weekend outside of the house. Even if it's just going for a walk at the park.
> 
> Maybe a couple times a month have friends over and do stuff together like go out to the movies, or stay home and play board games.
> 
> Then maybe once or twice a month spend time alone with our own friends. Like going out to lunch with my girlfriend, or him going to play poker at a buddies house.
> 
> But I don't want the friend time to be more common then our alone time.


Have you laid this out for him?


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> What he said. I just didn't have it in me to really come out and say it.
> 
> You are just a second mother to him.


Agree, but still don't understand his lack of sex drive. Is he really just LD?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> So you two never vacation together, but he can go on a vacation with his friends. Why is that acceptable?


We went with his family to Florida last year... Because it was free. We have never went on vacation anywhere alone except our honeymoon, and the one night we spent at a hotel an hour away from home on our anniversary.



> This is more like his trip this weekend than his road trip. I would equate the two.


True.



> So he likes to camp with his buddies, but not you.


It seems so. He says "I don't camp right" because I want to sleep in a tent. (His friend sleep outside.) So he says camping with me would be boring.



> To me, it sounds like he wants to be single. He wants the guy time, but likes having you waiting in the wings.


That's how I feel. And I've told him that several times. He just got upset about it, and said it's not like that. I'd have to look back on this journal to see what exactly transpired. But we've had quite a blow up over this before.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Was he living at his parents before you two got married also?


Yes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> What he said. I just didn't have it in me to really come out and say it.
> 
> You are just a second mother to him.


Yes. During more than one argument the words, "I am your wife, not your mother" have been used.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Agree, but still don't understand his lack of sex drive. Is he really just LD?


There is such a thing as being asexual. When I was 22 I would hump a tree if I could.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> My apologies if I am getting may facts confused, but this appears to be less than the number of times that he goes out with his friends. So you get a date with him once every other week, but he heads out with friends at least once a week (for multipe days), correct?


It depends on the time of year. If it's summer, then yes he hangs out with friends more than once a week. During the winter when most of them are gone, then it's probably once a week.

Multiple days he is gone is probably like once a month or two. Just depending on time of year. Sometimes more.

But his friend stays the night at our house at least once a month. Here lately twice a month.



> Stop doing his washing and cooking. My recollection is that he expects you to do it. Why is that?


His mommy always did it for him? :scratchhead: His mom is a SAHM. So of course she did the cooking and cleaning. I work/do school more than he does. So I agree that is unfair that I am responsible for most of the housework. 

He has been helping me tidy lately, and he makes his own breakfasts and lunches. So he is getting better. But I still do all laundry, dishes, bathroom cleaning. 



> Take some time for you. Leave him with some chores and make sure you have time to recharge.


I wish. Too busy at this point. 



> Have you laid this out for him?


In the past yes.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We went with his family to Florida last year... Because it was free. We have never went on vacation anywhere alone except our honeymoon, and the one night we spent at a hotel an hour away from home on our anniversary.


You did not quite answer my question. Why is it acceptable to never pay for a vacation with the two of you, but for him to pay to go on a vacation with his buddies?



> It seems so. He says "I don't camp right" because I want to sleep in a tent. (His friend sleep outside.) So he says camping with me would be boring.


Interesting choice of words on his part.



> That's how I feel. And I've told him that several times. He just got upset about it, and said it's not like that. I'd have to look back on this journal to see what exactly transpired. But we've had quite a blow up over this before.


Then what is it like? What is his explanation?

I see you working your tail off to make things work. I don't see much from him. So in my current path of being blunt, what do you get out of the relationship and why do you want it?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It depends on the time of year. If it's summer, then yes he hangs out with friends more than once a week. During the winter when most of them are gone, then it's probably once a week.
> 
> Multiple days he is gone is probably like once a month or two. Just depending on time of year. Sometimes more.
> 
> But his friend stays the night at our house at least once a month. Here lately twice a month.


So you get a date with him two nights a month, he gets buddy time around 8 nights a month. 



> His mommy always did it for him? :scratchhead: His mom is a SAHM. So of course she did the cooking and cleaning. I work/do school more than he does. So I agree that is unfair that I am responsible for most of the housework.
> 
> He has been helping me tidy lately, and he makes his own breakfasts and lunches. So he is getting better. But I still do all laundry, dishes, bathroom cleaning.


I seem to recall someone having an argument over whether she was his wife or his mother. I would suggest that she align her actions with her words.



> I wish. Too busy at this point.


Make time by stopping the chores you do for him


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hum, so he turned you down for a video game! Did you try to put yourself out there and seduce him? Or was it, "Ah, do you wanna?" and leave it up to him to respond? I am asking how much effort and putting yourself forward did you put into the request for sex that night?

And as for camping, gees, how selfish can he be not to invite his wife? My guess is that he feels awkward asking the rest of the guys to allow a woman to come along on the trip. Instead he just assumes it is a guy only thing. But he is married now and everybody knows it and he should be able to have his wife tag along for the journey and he should protect her enough to make sure she feels welcome to join in the fun. Well, that is my opinion.

Oh, and as far as his relationship to his friends, he should make it clear that he is a "package deal" now. If they invite him along, they have to expect that they are inviting him and his wife. Being married makes him (and you) a package deal. You can't invite one person without thinking about the other one.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> You did not quite answer my question. Why is it acceptable to never pay for a vacation with the two of you, but for him to pay to go on a vacation with his buddies?


Oh sorry. When I asked him about money, he said it would be a cheap trip because they were just camping. But they will still have to come up with money for gas, and food, etc. It is not acceptable.



> Interesting choice of words on his part.


He likes to use "boring" alot. Sadly it seems to mostly been when he is talking about something to do with me.



> Then what is it like? What is his explanation?


Can't remember. I don't feel like searching back through all the zillion pages of this thread. Sorry. 



> I see you working your tail off to make things work. I don't see much from him. So in my current path of being blunt, what do you get out of the relationship and why do you want it?


I'm not sure. I get security, a guy who loves me, sex, a home, companionship, etc.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> So you get a date with him two nights a month, he gets buddy time around 8 nights a month.


It would seem that way. Although I'm sure he counts all the time we are together at home as spending time together.



> I seem to recall someone having an argument over whether she was his wife or his mother. I would suggest that she align her actions with her words.


This has been the source of many discussions recently. I am working on it. I may have to implement more action. 




> Make time by stopping the chores you do for him.


I can't stop chores completely. I don't think it would be fair for him to do all of them either.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Hum, so he turned you down for a video game! Did you try to put yourself out there and seduce him? Or was it, "Ah, do you wanna?" and leave it up to him to respond? I am asking how much effort and putting yourself forward did you put into the request for sex that night?
> 
> And as for camping, gees, how selfish can he be not to invite his wife? My guess is that he feels awkward asking the rest of the guys to allow a woman to come along on the trip. Instead he just assumes it is a guy only thing. But he is married now and everybody knows it and he should be able to have his wife tag along for the journey and he should protect her enough to make sure she feels welcome to join in the fun. Well, that is my opinion.
> 
> Oh, and as far as his relationship to his friends, he should make it clear that he is a "package deal" now. If they invite him along, they have to expect that they are inviting him and his wife. Being married makes him (and you) a package deal. You can't invite one person without thinking about the other one.


No I did not try to seduce him. I'm over trying to beg him or talk him into intimacy. It is demeaning to have to grovel for sex. 

And there is no way I would be invited or welcomed at an all guy camp out. It's just not going to happen, and I would feel weird. 

To other things, yes I am getting better at insisting that I come along. I don't mind going to the movies with all guys, or something similar. But if they are all going to a house and playing poker it's pretty clear that it is a guy's only invite.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And now he is grumpy at me.

He was complaining how we probably won't get to have sex tonight or tomorrow.

I told him it wasn't from lack of trying from me.

Then I made a bit of a snarky comment about how maybe instead of playing video games he should have been having sex with me.

Sigh.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I can't stop chores completely. I don't think it would be fair for him to do all of them either.


I agree. But I would stop doing them for him. He can do his own laundry, cooking, dishes, cleaning, etc. You do yours.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not sure. I get security, a guy who loves me, sex, a home, companionship, etc.


How does he provide those things? You are not getting the sex you want. He prefers his buddies to you, and even goes so far as to call you boring. How do you define love? I don't see how he is showing you that.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And now he is grumpy at me.
> 
> He was complaining how we probably won't get to have sex tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> I told him it wasn't from lack of trying from me.
> 
> Then I made a bit of a snarky comment about how maybe instead of playing video games he should have been having sex with me.
> 
> Sigh.


Don't do the snark. Call him out. He said he was too tired to have sex, but stayed up late to play video games. And now he is using that as an excuse for no sex tonight (which means nothing until Sunday at the earliest because he will be gone).

So he chose not to have sex and he chose to again break his promise.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I agree. But I would stop doing them for him. He can do his own laundry, cooking, dishes, cleaning, etc. You do yours.


That's not marriage. That's roommates.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And now he is grumpy at me.
> 
> He was complaining how we probably won't get to have sex tonight or tomorrow.


In reality he not grumpy. He is playing a psychological game with you. He wants you to believe he concerned about not having sex but really has no interest. 

It's kind of like when you invite someone to a party but you don't particularly care for that person but you invite them anyway "hoping" they decline. And when they do decline the invitation they can't say they weren't invited. 

That's how I interpret the situation.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Don't do the snark. Call him out. He said he was too tired to have sex, but stayed up late to play video games. And now he is using that as an excuse for no sex tonight (which means nothing until Sunday at the earliest because he will be gone).
> 
> So he chose not to have sex and he chose to again break his promise.



I didn't mean for it to come off snarky I said it very matter o factually, but I think he took it as snarky. Sorry the truth hurts, bud. Is what I'd like to tell him.  


What promise? He didn't promise me sex.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That's not marriage. That's roommates.


What do you have now?

Please correct anything wrong in the following summary:

Currently, you do the chores, work and go to school. He works and hangs with his parents or his friends. He does minimal chores, expecting you to do them.

He refuses to meet your needs. He actively avoids spending time with you, but is willing to invest in his relationships with his friends. He routinely refuses sex and even such basic initimacy as holding hands. 

So my question to you is if he is not fulfilling his end of the bargin, why are you expected to continue to be his mother?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> How does he provide those things? You are not getting the sex you want. He prefers his buddies to you, and even goes so far as to call you boring. How do you define love? I don't see how he is showing you that.


It is very skewed. I agree.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I didn't mean for it to come off snarky I said it very matter o factually, but I think he took it as snarky. Sorry the truth hurts, bud. Is what I'd like to tell him.
> 
> 
> What promise? He didn't promise me sex.


I thought he promised to work on being more sexual with you and increasing your frequency. If correct, I see this as breaking his promise.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> What do you have now?
> 
> Please correct anything wrong in the following summary:
> 
> Currently, you do the chores, work and go to school. He works and hangs with his parents or his friends. He does minimal chores, expecting you to do them.
> 
> He refuses to meet your needs. He actively avoids spending time with you, but is willing to invest in his relationships with his friends. He routinely refuses sex and even such basic initimacy as holding hands.
> 
> So my question to you is if he is not fulfilling his end of the bargin, why are you expected to continue to be his mother?


Yep. That's a pretty good summary. Sadly.

He expects me to continue to be his mother because he is spoiled.

And I continue to oblige because I'm a doormat.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I thought he promised to work on being more sexual with you and increasing your frequency. If correct, I see this as breaking his promise.


No he has never agreed to increase the frequency. As far as he is concerned that is a no compromise area.

He did promise to be more intimate. Which hasn't happened. But we have been super busy since we made that agreement. We've barely seen each other.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't regret marrying him this young. Sure I wish he was more grown up and mature.


CW - I'm pretty tapped out from giving any more advice on your situation. I feel most here have given good advice up until this point but the last 7 pages of your thread are all pretty much the same with no changes what so ever. People who come to TAM deal with more "grown up" issues such as money, family, infidelity etc...not whether their husbands play video games, won't "hold hands" or camp with guy friends. 

These issues you present are seriously something teens deal with and I really feel for you because you deserve better.

You see your quote above? Get back to me in 3-5 years and tell me how you really feel.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> CW - I'm pretty tapped out from giving any more advice on your situation. I feel most here have given good advice up until this point but the last 7 pages of your thread are all pretty much the same with no changes what so ever. People who come to TAM deal with more "grown up" issues such as money, family, infidelity etc...not whether their husbands play video games, won't "hold hands" or camp with guy friends.
> 
> These issues you present are seriously something teens deal with and I really feel for you because you deserve better.
> 
> You see your quote above? Get back to me in 3-5 years and tell me how you really feel.


I agree that it is all very childish and immature issues. But it is what I am dealing with. 

I seriously don't want to upset, or frustrate any TAM members. And going over and regoing over all our issues is starting to wear on me. So I know it is getting to everyone else. 

Maybe it's time to take a break from TAM.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yep. That's a pretty good summary. Sadly.
> 
> He expects me to continue to be his mother because he is spoiled.


I have a suggestion that I make to others from time to time. What I suggest is that you align your actions with your words.

Currently, you talk to him a lot about what makes you unhappy. Your words convey this. But your actions convey the opposite. You still do all the things that show you love him. So he hears the words, but sees from your actions that you are not really that upset about where things stand.

You are sending a mixed message. This allows him to select which message he receives. So he has decided to "hear" that you really are not the upset.

So you need to align your actions to convey that you are not happy. For many women, sex drops off when they are unhappy with their spouse who is not meeting their needs. In your case, that is not an option. But I don't see any reason why you need to do the other things for him. So stop.

But when he asks why, you need to be crystal clear as to why. He is not meeting your needs, so you need to look after yourself. That means that you don't have time to look after his. Don't argue, or whine, or respond when he says otherwise. Hold your position.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That is a tall order to fill. 

But you are completely correct.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That is a tall order to fill.
> 
> But you are completely correct.


You are right on both accounts. :lol:

In seriousness, this is not easy. I won't try and misleading you into thinking otherwise. But without it, you are in for long term issues.

I do think you need to work on your own boundaries and stop being a doormat. What you want in a marriage has just as much validity as what he wants. A real marriage requires some give and take. But it also requires figuring out what are the must haves for both sides, with each standing up for them. 

So you need to work on yourself. Try reading The Dance Of Anger to start with.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious - marriage, in the ideal, is two people taking care of each other. When the time comes that you guys have kids, ideally, both of you will work to care for your family unit.

You doing everything for him around school and work (and him letting you) is not a healthy dynamic. If you are both working full time you should both be taking equal part in the upkeep of the household. There's no excuse for you shouldering all of it. Why - because you are a woman?

Assuming you guys are together for a lifetime, this dynamic is going to change a lot depending on your circumstances. There might be times only one of you is working, there might be times of illness. When the time comes to have kids you may be overwhelmed for a while.

If he expects you to run the household regardless of your circumstances it's going to breed resentment over time. More than is building right now.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No I did not try to seduce him. I'm over trying to beg him or talk him into intimacy. It is demeaning to have to grovel for sex.
> 
> And there is no way I would be invited or welcomed at an all guy camp out. It's just not going to happen, and I would feel weird.
> 
> To other things, yes I am getting better at insisting that I come along. I don't mind going to the movies with all guys, or something similar. But if they are all going to a house and playing poker it's pretty clear that it is a guy's only invite.


Well, I was thinking that perhaps when he wakes up from a sleep he is not in the mood. And it would require you to do something to get his motor running so he would say yes. My thought is that he woke up, and you immediately prompted him for sex and he would certainly say no because he was just out of a sleep state.

I was not thinking that would be begging for sex, but more of a way to get things started.

Anyhow, it turned into the same dance as always, you wanting, turned down, and then he turns it around that you guys can't have sex because you missed your opportunity. It sucks.

And regardless if you would feel weird about going on a camp out with the guys, you still should have been invited and turned it down. You two are married, and invitations should extend to both of you. Would you be displeased if he was invited to a party and you were not?


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW, gentle 2x4 coming your way.

Someone said the other day that the root of this is a lack of respect and I feel that was a dead-on assessment. You can tie it back to your H's maturity but at the end of the day, he simply doesn't respect you enough to prioritize your needs. This is uncomfortable for me to say but I suspect he has greater regard for his friends and putting in the time with them than he does with you. I doubt he would callously disrespect their feelings and desires the way he does yours. You're welcome to tell me I am insane but that's really how this comes across to me.

I know you love him. But love does not a marriage make; it requires mutual respect and communication, and it doesn't seem like you really have either.

TAM can advise you until every poster is blue in the face (fingers) but only you can decide how much of this you can take. You've taken quite a bit already.

I don't think I can top the other advice given by Tall Avg Guy and others over the last few pages, so I will simply wish you good luck.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not sure. I get security, a guy who loves me, sex, a home, companionship, etc.


I would love to know how you came up with that assertion. Unless you are misleading everyone by presenting an overly negative view of the husband, it would seem you are not getting any of those things, apart from a home maybe.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The message is pretty clear. Video game over sex with the girl he proposed to? This speaks a lot about priorities too. And you guys are newlyweds.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> There is something that has been bothering me lately, which I could use some advice on.
> 
> Recently he has mentioned that him and his friend are going to go on a road trip for a few days... No he didn't ask, he was just like, "when me and ... go on our road trip this summer and go camping and etc."
> 
> I'm not sure how to respond to this. We have never went on a road trip together. We are going on one in June. But we are just going on a weekend so only taking off work one day. And it isn't for pleasure, we are picking something up.
> 
> We don't go on vacations or anything because we can't afford it. I don't understand how he suddenly can afford to go on one with his friend.
> 
> It bothers me that he didn't ask me. And honestly I don't want him gone for several days.
> 
> But last year I did go visit an out of town friend for a day and a half. So is it hypocritical of me to not want him to go?
> 
> I don't want to be the mean wife who says no. I think there is a fine line between overbearing, and just being realistic.
> 
> What would you do?
> 
> I'd rather we go together as a couple and go on a road trip and go camping. Is it wrong of me? We've never even went camping together, although I've wanted to several times.
> 
> I'm not sure where to set boundaries. I realize he is the only one in his group of friends that is married. So the guys are out camping, and traveling, and having sleepovers. He has done this in the past. But he is married now. Should I expect him to stop?


I wouldn't flat out say "no" to him, after all he is a grown man who can do what he wants. If I were you I would just suggest that you two should take one as well, go somewhere you both like and do something you both enjoy, that it would be fun. That way he has no reason to say it would be "boring." Basically don't make this into a big deal, but use it to your advantage.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> There is such a thing as being asexual. When I was 22 I would hump a tree if I could.


Haha this is exactly how I feel. I can't even put myself in his shoes. How can a guy not be horny for days?!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> I would love to know how you came up with that assertion. Unless you are misleading everyone by presenting an overly negative view of the husband, it would seem you are not getting any of those things, apart from a home maybe.


:iagree:

Oh, caution .. hard blow coming out of the screen ...

I'm not sure. (yup I agree with that one)

I get security. - Hum, what security - is he there for you?

a guy who loves me. - but will not hold your hand because he is afraid it will hurt his friends feelings (i.e. what about your feelings!!!)

sex - the way you describe it, you get sex scraps. They may taste good, but they are on his terms. So I would say that he gets sex, and you give sex. (of course the giver can enjoy it too).

a home - ok

companionship. - Not so much so when he often chooses to be with his friends rather than be with you. So, it does not appear that you are the chosen one when it comes to who he wants to have as a companion.

Ok, all this may be pretty harsh. And life for you may be different because what you write here is the issues you want to work on in your life. However, the posting has posted a less than wonderful relationship. I sure hope reality is better than what you have posted her for your sake.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just a thought on the house chores situation. 

I think it’s fine if you want to do the house chores. What I think is unacceptable (and detrimental to a marriage) is that you’re forgoing having a social life because you’re busy doing chores, working and going to school, while his friendships are flourishing. This leaves you in a vulnerable position because while he has a satisfying social life you rely on him exclusively (apart from people you work with and family) for your companionship. This could be a lot for a guy to handle (I can’t imagine being my wife’s only friend, I would go crazy.) Just because you guys are married doesn’t mean that you have to spend all your free time with each other. It’s important for you to establish that you need a social circle outside of your family, and this is why he needs to free up some of your time by doing more around the house.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yep. That's a pretty good summary. Sadly.
> 
> 
> 
> He expects me to continue to be his mother because he is spoiled.
> 
> 
> 
> And I continue to oblige because I'm a doormat.



Then stop being a doormat. Just because his mother spoiled him doesn't mean you have to as well. Can you imagine working full time/part time, taking care of kids and doing EVERYTHING because your partner doesn't want to lift a finger? 

You're acting like his mom and not his wife. I hate to say it but if a man was acting like he was my father, I would dump him


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, how are you doing?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, how are you doing?


Same as usual. Just trying to take a breather from TAM for a while. So I'm not sure how often I'll check in.

The other day I took his hand and marched him to the washing machine. I told him I need him to help me more around the house, because I am too stressed and too exhausted. He complained that he would start doing half the chores if I started paying half the bills.  (I work/do school more than him. But he gets paid more hourly.)

I showed him how to wash laundry, again. (I've shown him several times.) I think I will start having him do one load a week, to get him in the groove.

Last night I came home from school at 11pm after also working a full day. Every dish in the house was dirty, and piled all over the kitchen. Of course we had no silverware for breakfast or anything, so I washed a few essential items. 

He was playing video games when I got home. I told him that he should have helped me out, and washed some dishes for me while I was at school since I had a hard day and he laid around all evening he just said, "oops. I didn't think about it."

In his defense he is actually allergic to dish soap, or any kind of liquid soap. So I normally do take care of the dishes. He dries for me sometimes. But it would be nice, if he would help out when he sees me struggling to keep up.

Saturday we have a date planned. Work has been exhausting, so I look forward to it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OMG Curious, there's nothing wrong with your husband except he's a spoiled, rotten and lazy brat.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> In his defense he is actually allergic to dish soap, or any kind of liquid soap. So I normally do take care of the dishes. He dries for me sometimes. But it would be nice, if he would help out when he sees me struggling to keep up.


Really? Do you ever not give him a pass? Sorry dear, but when you excuse this behavior, you can't expect it to stop.

My guess is that you have a dishwasher. No reason he can't load it. As far as washing is concerned, a pair of rubber gloves should take care of any allergies. But that would require mommy making her little boy grow up. Are you ready to do that?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The other day I took his hand and marched him to the washing machine. I told him I need him to help me more around the house, because I am too stressed and too exhausted. He complained that *he would start doing half the chores if I started paying half the bills*.  (I work/do school more than him. But he gets paid more hourly.)


Remember how you complained to me that you want a marriage, not a roommate relationship? He just told you what he expects. Are you going to listen?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No we do not have a dishwasher.

I didn't mean to use his allergy as an excuse. He CAN do dishes, just not all the time. Which is fine, we agreed that I will do them normally. That doesn't excuse the fact that he laid around all evening, while I worked for 14 hours and then I was expected to come home and do all the chores as well. 

I don't excuse his problems to him. I just feel like a lot of my posts on here portray him as a horrible, lazy monster. So I feel the need to stick up for him a bit.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Remember how you complained to me that you want a marriage, not a roommate relationship? He just told you what he expects. Are you going to listen?


I know he doesn't grasp the "marriage" concept. We go around about this often.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*

You're making excuses for him. He shouldn't have asked to marry him if he couldn't " grasp the 'marriage' concept".


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



spinsterdurga said:


> You're making excuses for him. He shouldn't have asked to marry him if he couldn't " grasp the 'marriage' concept".



Yea...I'm gonna have to agree with this. CW, you just admitted he can't grasp the concept of marriage. Umm...big problem?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know he doesn't grasp the "marriage" concept. We go around about this often.


Actually, I think he grasps it just fine. He likes the marriage he has right now.

But if you still want to give him the benefit of the doubt, try giving him the version of marriage that he wants. He is looking for a roommate situation where everything is equal. So give that to him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I didn't know he wanted marriage to be such a "partnership."

I would have insisted we waited to get married if I would have known how selfish he is with money, chores, sex. He was never selfish with anything while we were dating, and I have known this man a long time. 

I do not think he was ready for marriage. But as I said before. I don't know if he would have ever been, no matter his age.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*

What are you going to do about it?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Actually, I think he grasps it just fine. He likes the marriage he has right now.
> 
> But if you still want to give him the benefit of the doubt, try giving him the version of marriage that he wants. He is looking for a roommate situation where everything is equal. So give that to him.


I agree. I think he is quite happy with this arrangement. Why shouldn't he be. 

While I might be willing to split our duties. Such as we both cook our own food, do our own laundry, etc. I can't split the money. The fact is he makes twice as much as me (despite my college degree). My paycheck couldn't even cover half our bills. Otherwise I would just split everything for a while and see how much he likes the roommate agreement. 

There is so many little issues going on it seems like an insurmountable task to ever work on all of them. How do I even begin? I can't just sit him down and say I dislike everything about him and our marriage. 

I'm just trying to work one step at a time. 

But I hesitate to continue adding more and more complaints on him, and telling him I am unhappy with such and such. Maybe I should just suck it up and be happy with what I have. I just don't even know what I should let slide and what I should correct.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree. I think he is quite happy with this arrangement. Why shouldn't he be.
> 
> While I might be willing to split our duties. Such as we both cook our own food, do our own laundry, etc. I can't split the money. The fact is he makes twice as much as me (despite my college degree). My paycheck couldn't even cover half our bills. Otherwise I would just split everything for a while and see how much he likes the roommate agreement.
> 
> There is so many little issues going on it seems like an insurmountable task to ever work on all of them. How do I even begin? I can't just sit him down and say I dislike everything about him and our marriage.
> 
> I'm just trying to work one step at a time.
> 
> But I hesitate to continue adding more and more complaints on him, and telling him I am unhappy with such and such. *Maybe I should just suck it up and be happy with what I have*. I just don't even know what I should let slide and what I should correct.


Well, you have the sucking it up part down pat...as that's all you seem to do.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Maybe I should just suck it up and be happy with what I have. I just don't even know what I should let slide and what I should correct.


My goodness woman...you sound like a 1950's housewife where your opinions, dreams etc don't matter.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Feeling very beat down and burdened today.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> My goodness woman...you sound like a 1950's housewife where your opinions, dreams etc don't matter.


I know. It all just seems so hopeless, and impossible today. 

Work has been hard, life has been hard recently, and I am tried, very tired. Of everything.

Sorry for my mopey attitude. I'm sure I will go back to myself in a few days.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know. It all just seems so hopeless, and impossible today.
> 
> Work has been hard, life has been hard recently, and I am tried, very tired. Of everything.
> 
> Sorry for my mopey attitude. I'm sure I will go back to myself in a few days.


Don't be sorry for you attitude...it's totally understandable, but you need to really consider bringing leaving the relationship to the table as an option.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think we need to give CW some breathing room here for a while...


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know you're wore out. You've been dealing with a lot, but you're going to have to drag him into this marriage. You have to make this the marriage you want it to be or decide it's too much and walk. Just don't accept what you have. Because you have NOTHING. You don't even have a good room mate situation. You're way too young to be settling like that.

Who the hell says "I'll do half the chores when you pay half the bills"? Ok fine, if he makes 60% of the household income he can still do 40% of the house work. Which would be way more than he is doing now. Use his logic in your favor.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Feeling very beat down and burdened today.


So sorry Curious - hope you feel better soon. Take care of yourself for a change...........


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> While I might be willing to split our duties. Such as we both cook our own food, do our own laundry, etc. I can't split the money. The fact is he makes twice as much as me (despite my college degree). My paycheck couldn't even cover half our bills. Otherwise I would just split everything for a while and see how much he likes the roommate agreement.



I would work on making him understand marriage involves a lot of things including finances. There's no "my bills vs your bills" when you're 20 somethings and just starting period.

How long till you graduate and what are the prospects for a better job? Can you wait to graduate and bail out after that?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree. I think he is quite happy with this arrangement. Why shouldn't he be.
> 
> While I might be willing to split our duties. Such as we both cook our own food, do our own laundry, etc. I can't split the money. The fact is he makes twice as much as me (despite my college degree). My paycheck couldn't even cover half our bills. Otherwise I would just split everything for a while and see how much he likes the roommate agreement.


Fair enough. May be work toward not being his mom.



> There is so many little issues going on it seems like an insurmountable task to ever work on all of them. How do I even begin? I can't just sit him down and say I dislike everything about him and our marriage.
> 
> I'm just trying to work one step at a time.
> 
> But I hesitate to continue adding more and more complaints on him, and telling him I am unhappy with such and such. Maybe I should just suck it up and be happy with what I have. I just don't even know what I should let slide and what I should correct.


I get this. I also understand how exhausting this whole process must be. Take a break from this if you need to. Expect nothing from him and go take care of yourself for a bit. He gets to relax and ignore chores, so this weekend, go do the same. Get out and leave him alone and focus on you.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I would *insist* on marriage counseling.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh poor curious! Yes, sometimes all these problems make you feel like ignoring everything!

So do that! Ignore it all! All the dishes, the laundry, the bathroom...everything. Spend the entire weekend doing stuff you enjoy! Then Sunday night, do one load of laundry for the things *you* will need for the upcoming week!

Listen to you father! TAG has advised you well.
:rofl:


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious - if it helps I know many couples who are doing just fine at the 20 year Mark who started out very unhappy the first little bit. One of my friends was just telling me she used to be a runner and she realized she ha become that way because she wanted to run away from the place she shared with her husband.

I could relate several stories like that. The reason these people have strong marriages now is because their husbands made a decision to change course. You could say that about any marriage here - if a spouse isn't willing to change course, accept responsibility for the union, have a desire to be a better spouse - the marriage isn't going to last.

That's on your husband. Of course some of this has become a question of how much pain and rejection you can stand. That part is upsetting because you want so much to have a good marriage and are trying to keep the peace with him.

It doesn't help that you can't go back home, either. He rescued you only to become part of your general neglect.

I'm very much hoping he will get this message before more emotional damage is done to you than has already occurred. It's a shame that he either doesn't realize how he is acting or worse, means to act this way.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't feel beat up. You learned something.

Your H is transactional.

Something for something. Fairness. But it will be on his terms, how he feels it is fair, and that is what you can expect.

Explains a LOT, doesn't it?

I"m not gonna say this is "bad"... it's how he is. If that's is NOT how YOU are, that is a big part of the problem. Ding ding!!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When you said "I do" where you thinking of laundry and dishes? I am going to guess that was not what you were thinking. No? Were you thinking that "I do" means taking on the challenge of making more money than him so you can sit and play video games while he does the dishes and laundry.

Take a deep breath Curious. A lot of us out here are behind you. Think about what you really want. Probably more free time. Less to do so you are not as tired. If this is the case you need to talk to him so he knows what you really want. If he understands that you are really seeking more free time, and to be less tired, then he may find his own way to help you out. It may not be doing the laundry or the dishes, but it may be something else that can help you out and give you a break from your exhausting world. Or perhaps he will see why you want help on laundry and then help out. People tend not to do things when they don't know why they are doing them.

I would guess that taking a weekend off to take care of yourself and not do his laundry or dishes will just leave a pile of dishes in the Monday morning sink, and a pile of laundry on the floor. If he is that immature, he is going to let it pile up for you to do later when you can't stand it anymore. May not get the point across. ... just a guess.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've heard the saying that marriage isn't 50/50 - it's 100/100. Curious is certainly putting in her 100 and that's what hurts.


----------



## FizzBomb

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> I know you're wore out. You've been dealing with a lot, but *you're going to have to drag him into this marriage.* You have to make this the marriage you want it to be or decide it's too much and walk.


Re the part I bolded, Egads! No way. Why the hell should she 'drag' him into the marriage? I can't believe that comment got so many likes. You want a willing participant, not someone you're 'dragging' into the relationship.

You don't have to make this the marriage what 'you want it to be'. You can't control him or make him do anything. You set your boundaries and respect yourself. But have a plan of action to work towards when he doesn't.

I know you're down and struggling right now. I think you're your own worst enemy. You don't allow him to suffer the consequences of his actions. You need to cut the apron strings from mumma's boy. I do think your relationship is coming across as a mother/spoiled child dynamic rather than man/woman sexual dynamic.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I've heard the saying that marriage isn't 50/50 - it's 100/100. Curious is certainly putting in her 100 and that's what hurts.


We don't really know that she's putting in a 100%, we're only getting her point of view. I'm sure a therapist could point out things BOTH of them could do to improve the marriage.


----------



## sapientia

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> On the above :iagree:
> 
> As I said, I am coming into this thread late in the game and am doing some catching up here, so sorry for being a little behind on all this. But Curious Wife... if you could only see this entire thread of yours through the eyes of an objective 3rd party observer.... I know I am not alone when I say it is literally painful to read what this man is putting you through. In my view, this goes beyond sex. A man who knows what love is -real, genuine LOVE - could not treat you this way. I mean, the signs go beyond just the sex issues - the way he carries on in public with the woman you had the disturbing dream about.... what LOVING husband would do that to his wife? Reading that breaks my heart (as do many of your other posts). Sweetheart, this is not what love looks like. Please don't be mad at me for speaking honestly.


:iagree:


----------



## sapientia

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have to agree. For me the disturbing part is not his LD per se, but his apparent indifference to your pain about the issue.

My fiance has problem sometimes; its not uncommon as men age. Extremely demanding job, tired from a lot of travel, etc takes it toll. But he is always happy to 'return the favour', so to speak, and is always affectionate. Its worrisome your husband doesn't even offer your this. Lack of balance...


----------



## sapientia

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



deejov said:


> Don't feel beat up. You learned something.
> 
> Your H is transactional.
> 
> Something for something. Fairness. But it will be on his terms, how he feels it is fair, and that is what you can expect.


This^ post is wisdom.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That you for all the encouraging words, and wisdom.

I'm short on time, so I can't individually answer, so I'll try to hit the main questions. 

I agree with Scarlet. I just think it's too early to give up. A lot of things change over time. But I do also realize a lot of things DON'T change over time. So I am realistic that I don't think he is going to turn into my perfect mate after a few years. But I think it is possible that we can grow and mature together, with a lot of hard work, to a compromise we are both satisfied with. I don't know if it will happen, but it is possible. 

I would not go back to my parents home. Sometimes I can't even bare to go visit. Moving back would be so much worse on my emotional and mental health than my selfish husband. There is no comparison. And I do not make enough money alone to support myself. So essentially I would have nowhere to go. I love my home, and I love my husband. Our relationship together does have problems. Our personalities and needs just very different.

Like meat train has said I feel like I am putting 100% into the marriage. But how do I really know? Maybe I am just delusional. I did forget to mention that my best friend has went to school to be a counselor. I have shared some of my personal life and problems with her. She seems to have the same thought of the TAM members. That my husband is selfish and lazy. But again she is my friend, so maybe she is bias? I know I have issues, and am partially to blame. A counselor would certainly help straighten it out. And I will continue to look for information on finding one and getting my husband to go.

The last couple days I have been spending more time on myself. I had husband help me wash all the dishes yesterday. And we will do the same today. I have spent hours and hours doing my favorite pastime, reading. I've been too busy to pick up a book in months, but I just sat down and started to read. It feels very good.

He did reject me for sex last night, and now it is cranky week. I'm just going to continue doing things I enjoy and try not to dwell on the sex I am missing like I usually do this week. Focusing on me and what I want.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Keep at it CW...sounds like you are making some progress. :smthumbup:


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



FizzBomb said:


> Re the part I bolded, Egads! No way. Why the hell should she 'drag' him into the marriage? I can't believe that comment got so many likes. You want a willing participant, not someone you're 'dragging' into the relationship.
> 
> You don't have to make this the marriage what 'you want it to be'. You can't control him or make him do anything. You set your boundaries and respect yourself. But have a plan of action to work towards when he doesn't.


I'm just saying that is what she is going to have to do to make this work. I personally would set a timeframe for him to change and be gone when he didn't. Setting boundaries is in effect dragging him into the marriage. He's NOT a willing participant. He's not going to do anything because he WANTS to. Anything he does will be because of some type of consequence he wants to avoid. Not the kind of relationship I'd want, but Curious isn't ready to give up on him.


----------



## yours4ever

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi TheCuriousWife,
You said you're the decision maker in most area and it was you most of the time who had to iniciate/lead in showing affection. Am i right?
.
And when it is about sex, you have high expectations. I say high because, if you compare yours and mine, you'll be suprised. 
.
It has been two years and 5 months into our marriage and i have never orgasmed when we had sex. the longest sex session would be about 20 minutes i think. Yet i am always pleased that we did it. 
.
The only time i told him how i would like to be touched was when he asked for feedback. That has only happened three or four times in 2 and a half year.
.
And i don't tell him any dissatisfaction. Only the good stuff i like, and true enough that praise does encourage people, he does the stuff i like more.
.
---
.
From what i see through several posts of yours, TheCuriousWife,
.
you are asserting too much power in the relationship, and that doesn't make him feel manly.... and he can't even feel manly in sex as your demands are high and always "something is missing, not good enough" 
.
....and, my guess is that he tries to gain that feeling of power/masculine by witholding sex / physical affection.
.
.
My advice, is to start by showing LOTs of appreciation (in his love language),
.
and let him be in charge of many things, and lower YOUR standard, for now.
.
.
Example: 
Instead of YOU reach out to hold his hand, 
you ASK "dear, would you hold my hand? i need/miss you." if he rejects,
ask him to show HIS love language, it might be buying a small gift, saying he loves you or help carry the shopping bags.
.
the key word is ASK, not command.
.
Lastly, stop labeling yout husband as lazy. Because once you put a label, you become blind of the good things that he does... .
.
when he helped you with the dishea, your mind would say "he is just trying to make himself look good" or
"he is manipulatinf me" or
"he MUST do it to repair our marriage"
.
.
.so,
1. Let go of your urge to be in charge in many aspects, go with the flow.
2. let him be in power in decision making. Ask for affection (start small and easy, in HIS love language), and ask for his opinion and follow his way.
3. show appreciation, again, mostly in his love language.

your objective is to make him feel like an alpha male, so he will be a proactive man.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



yours4ever said:


> My advice, is to start by showing LOTs of appreciation (in his love language),
> 
> and let him be in charge of many things, and lower YOUR standard, for now.


What?! :scratchhead:

I'm sorry but you gave her the WORST advice. Everything in your post was just wrong wrong wrong...


----------



## yours4ever

TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh I forgot to mention.
> 
> We had a quickie on Tuesday, and we had full sex on Wednesday.
> 
> If your keeping track that means we had sex two days in the row for the first time in 6 months!
> 
> So that's a little bit of progress.


Ah, would someone please tell me what is a full sex? 
.
A quicky is penetration without lubrication?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## yours4ever

NewHubs said:


> What?! :scratchhead:
> 
> I'm sorry but you gave her the WORST advice. Everything in your post was just wrong wrong wrong...


... How is it wrong? 

---
The way i see it is that...
her husband is not LD at all. he wanted to have sex with her,( after shower, when she is all dressed up to go to school etc) but she declined, and when she wanted it, he declined.
.
It is a cycle of rejections, both parties doing the rejections.
.
when he wanted to rub her, she pushed him away. 
when he was turn on and iniciated sex, (after a shower with her), she didnt want it... all because he did not touch her or have sex IN the shower.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

.
.
And when he said "it will be quick, you wont feel a thing.", you might be thinking he didnt care about her wants or that he is the type that doesnt enjoy sex.
.
.
What if, the real reason he said that was because he thought that it was CW who dislikes having sex with him...so he will be real quick?

----

Anyway, have you requests him to do what you want when he was having "his quickie", TheCuriousWife? Start with small request.
"hubby, whisper "i love you", please?" while he pumps.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Did you read her whole thread? 

He has a history of rejecting her and then initiating when there is no time or she is on her period so he doesn't have to do anything to satisfy her. 

If she was still playing patty cake with him she would be doing nothing but giving him free blow jobs whenever he wanted them.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



yours4ever said:


> Ah, would someone please tell me what is a full sex?
> .
> A quicky is penetration without lubrication?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm assuming she means quickie - only he gets off.

Full sex = she gets off too.

You know, the kind of sex us ladies aren't having on account of being too nice and accommodating to men that should know we also like orgasms. 

Well, I'm now reformed as of a year ago. Encouraging my husband in bed for whatever he wanted and don't worry about little old me got me 18 years down the road with no orgasms. Don't do that.


----------



## yours4ever

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TheCuriousWife,

May i know your main reason for having this thread? 

Is there is a goal to the open journal?

thanks for sharing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

This is my last response to this thread.
.
.
This is what i see:

1. your marriage is really young. he was a virgin with little knowledge about sex.

2. you have too high of an expectation, especially for a newbie (your husband).

3. He is not LD. In fact, he put effort (despite isnt the way or standard that YOU want), he cares about you (washing dishes, buying gift etc) and he desires you (quicky or full, he did both.) 

4. men are emotional beings too.Try finding OTHER reasons besides "he is lazy" "he is inconsiderate" "he is LD" "he doesnt desire/love me".

What exactly that you want? ( im beginning to think it is insecurity, and you trying to solve insecurity/trust through sex. it is never enough. you got to find peace within and trust that he loves you.) 

Regarding him not hanging out with you,....
Have you ever said, "there is this event i want to go and i need a man (pointing at him playfully) to go along.. for protection. it miggt be boring for you but i really appreciate it."

or

"i enjoy/need your company, you're funny/smart/, will you bring me to ___"

have you try that


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



> Hi TheCuriousWife,
> You said you're the decision maker in most area and it was you most of the time who had to iniciate/lead in showing affection. Am i right?
> .
> And when it is about sex, you have high expectations. I say high because, if you compare yours and mine, you'll be suprised.
> .
> It has been two years and 5 months into our marriage and i have never orgasmed when we had sex. the longest sex session would be about 20 minutes i think. Yet i am always pleased that we did it.
> .
> The only time i told him how i would like to be touched was when he asked for feedback. That has only happened three or four times in 2 and a half year.
> .
> And i don't tell him any dissatisfaction. Only the good stuff i like, and true enough that praise does encourage people, he does the stuff i like more.


No offense but I don't think I'll be following your advice. 

Your sex life not what I want, or what I am striving towards at all. All your post tells me is that if I stop trying and just smile and tell him everything is great I won't have an orgasm for 2 years, 5 months and counting. :scratchhead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



yours4ever said:


> What if, the real reason he said that was because he thought that it was CW who dislikes having sex with him...so he will be real quick?


There is no confusion on his part that I LOVE sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Did you read her whole thread?
> 
> He has a history of rejecting her and then initiating when there is no time or she is on her period so he doesn't have to do anything to satisfy her.
> 
> If she was still playing patty cake with him she would be doing nothing but giving him free blow jobs whenever he wanted them.


:iagree:

Speaking of that.... 

We are getting into it again. 

Same old thing. He rejected me for sex on Tuesday, but now he asks for a blow job.

Yesterday he kept dogging me for a blow job. He would say, "Man a blow job sounds nice." 
Me: "Why yes it does." 
"How about you give me one?"
Me: "You rub me, and I'll give you the best blow job ever with a smile."
"It's been a while since I had a _free_ blow job."
Me: "Yeah. It has. I've never had one."

(End of discussion)
.... 
Later
....

"Want to get naked and make out?"
Me: "I don't know. Not if your just going to try to talk me into a blow job after."
"You always complain about me never wanting to kiss, but when I offer then you just think I want something!!" 
Me: "I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way. I just don't want to get your hopes up then hurt your feelings. I'd love to kiss you."
"Besides you ask for sex all the time, but the one time I ask for sex I am selfish!"

....
He wouldn't talk anymore after that. He got all defensive and hurt, when in fact it was all just a ploy to get me to give him a blow job in the first place. Sigh. I went to bed, and he slept on the couch for a few hours. Later in the night he crawled into bed and spooned me and said he was sorry. This morning we were cordial and quiet, and he left another note saying he was sorry. 

It's a lose lose situation. We both think the other is being unfair and selfish. He just doesn't seem to grasp that when I ask for sex it's for both of us and we both have fun. He doesn't ask for sex he asks for blow jobs, and they are only for him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



yours4ever said:


> TheCuriousWife,
> 
> May i know your main reason for having this thread?
> 
> Is there is a goal to the open journal?
> 
> thanks for sharing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> This is my last response to this thread.
> .
> .
> This is what i see:
> 
> 1. your marriage is really young. he was a virgin with little knowledge about sex.
> 
> 2. you have too high of an expectation, especially for a newbie (your husband).
> 
> 3. He is not LD. In fact, he put effort (despite isnt the way or standard that YOU want), he cares about you (washing dishes, buying gift etc) and he desires you (quicky or full, he did both.)
> 
> 4. men are emotional beings too.Try finding OTHER reasons besides "he is lazy" "he is inconsiderate" "he is LD" "he doesnt desire/love me".
> 
> What exactly that you want? ( im beginning to think it is insecurity, and you trying to solve insecurity/trust through sex. it is never enough. you got to find peace within and trust that he loves you.)
> 
> Regarding him not hanging out with you,....
> Have you ever said, "there is this event i want to go and i need a man (pointing at him playfully) to go along.. for protection. it miggt be boring for you but i really appreciate it."
> 
> or
> 
> "i enjoy/need your company, you're funny/smart/, will you bring me to ___"
> 
> have you try that


My main reasons are to vent, seek advice, keep a record of our sex life so I can see if it's improving or going down hill, and to hopefully let other women out there having the same problem that they aren't alone.

1. Yes our marriage is young.

2. I don't have too high of an expectation. If he expects me to get him off, then I see no problem expecting the same from him. 

3. I still think he is LD. He doesn't even masturbate. What man in his 20's isn't interested in sex unless he is LD. 

4. I want him to show a little desire for me, and not smack me away every time I try to kiss him or hold his hand. 

The problem is not him hanging out with me. He will go places with me if I ask. The problem is him leaving me and hanging out with his friends all the time. His friend that he stayed with last weekend called yesterday and wanted him to stay the weekend again. If we hadn't already made plans for a date night Saturday, I would have been left alone again all weekend.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It's a lose lose situation. We both think the other is being unfair and selfish. He just doesn't seem to grasp that when I ask for sex it's for both of us and we both have fun. He doesn't ask for sex he asks for blow jobs, and they are only for him.



I don't know but this seems like progress to me. 

He has been able to get away with being selfish for a fairly long time and it may take a while to get him out of that mode. People need a lot of time to change their attitude. 

If he really misses BJ's that much I would expect him to start working for them by doing things that make you happy also.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> I don't know but this seems like progress to me.
> 
> He has been able to get away with being selfish for a fairly long time and it may take a while to get him out of that mode. People need a lot of time to change their attitude.
> 
> If he really misses BJ's that much I would expect him to start working for them by doing things that make you happy also.



For a while he seemed to get it. He had stopped asking for "free" blow jobs, and instead would be like, "how about tonight I please you and then maybe i can finish with a blow job." Which I am more than happy to do.

I really love giving him blow jobs. I'd love to lavish him with them frequently, but only if he is willing to reciprocate. I've still never received oral sex to completion, or ever had him perform anything on me without expecting me to return the favor. 

I just want to feel what it's like to be on the receiving end every once in a while. And while when his feelings get hurt I do feel bad that he thinks I'm being a tyrant. But at the same time, I find it extremely wrong of him to just take take take. 

It wouldn't be so bad if he realized how unfair he is being. But he is genuinely hurt when I tell him no, and thinks I am being a selfish brat.  That stings.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I really love giving him blow jobs. I'd love to *lavish* him with them frequently, but only if he is willing to reciprocate.


Damn....


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> "Want to get naked and make out?"
> Me: "I don't know. Not if your just going to try to talk me into a blow job after."
> "You always complain about me never wanting to kiss, but when I offer then you just think I want something!!"
> Me: *"I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way. *I just don't want to get your hopes up then hurt your feelings. I'd love to kiss you."
> "Besides you ask for sex all the time, but the one time I ask for sex I am selfish!"


Except I think you did mean it that way. At this point, I would consider radical honesty when you communicate with him. So your answer to that would be"

Yes, I do think you want something. Sex with you is one-sided. I don't feel that what I want is important.



> He wouldn't talk anymore after that. He got all defensive and hurt, when in fact it was all just a ploy to get me to give him a blow job in the first place. Sigh. I went to bed, and he slept on the couch for a few hours. Later in the night he crawled into bed and spooned me and said he was sorry. This morning we were cordial and quiet, and he left another note saying he was sorry.
> 
> It's a lose lose situation. We both think the other is being unfair and selfish. He just doesn't seem to grasp that when I ask for sex it's for both of us and we both have fun. He doesn't ask for sex he asks for blow jobs, and they are only for him.


Make that clear. I loved your response in the first exchange. Tell him that giving him a blow job with nothing in return ever is a non-starter. It's like borrowing money. He has given you so many IOUs and never repaid them that you have shut off advancing him any more.


----------



## Happilymarried25

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I would stop giving him BJ's. He isn't giving you what you want so why are you giving him what he wants?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Except I think you did mean it that way. At this point, I would consider radical honesty when you communicate with him. So your answer to that would be"
> 
> Yes, I do think you want something. Sex with you is one-sided. I don't feel that what I want is important.
> 
> Make that clear. I loved your response in the first exchange. Tell him that giving him a blow job with nothing in return ever is a non-starter. It's like borrowing money. He has given you so many IOUs and never repaid them that you have shut off advancing him any more.


Thanks for the point of view. I spoke my mind at first, then didn't want to sound too harsh. I should have stuck to my guns more with the last exchange, and not played it down.

Sadly he doesn't even give me IOUs most of the time.  

It's not like he has ever came and given me a "free" blow job, or even offered one for that matter.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Happilymarried25 said:


> I would stop giving him BJ's. He isn't giving you what you want so why are you giving him what he wants?


Where did this come from?

I am NOT giving him blow jobs. That's why he is pouting in the first place.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks for the point of view. I spoke my mind at first, then didn't want to sound too harsh. I should have stuck to my guns more with the last exchange, and not played it down.


Don't sweat it. You won't be perfect in all these exchanges. I loved how you stood up for yourself and spoke your mind.



> Sadly he doesn't even give me IOUs most of the time.
> 
> It's not like he has ever came and given me a "free" blow job, or even offered one for that matter.


My guess is that if he was approaching you frequently for the type of sex you want and need, you would have no issue with free blow jobs as extras. But he won't even do that. So in that way, the balance is way off and you need to continue to cut off the loaning until he makes efforts to right the balance.

I know this hurt, but this was a good event for you. Keep it up.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Well at least we are not reading that you gave in and he got a blow job and you got nothing (the board would kick you like a mule if you did that). 

Give him the talk again. Let him know that he has disappointed you and left you unsatisfied a lot of time when it starts out with him wanting a blow job. So that triggers a defensive response in you and also does nothing to your desire. Make it clear to him that you still love to give him a blow job, but you need him to make the move to give you something first.

And you might tell him that you need him to be more blunt about what he wants. Honestly, hinting that a blow job would be nice is not a request for a blow job, it is dropping a hint so that if you reject him he will not feel hurt and rejected. And saying lets get naked and make out. Gads, that is what teenagers do to suggest a sexual encounter. Tell him to be more direct and say what he really would like to do. 

I would also expect him to make a lot of progress with you if he attacked you and removed your clothes in a hurry (no words, but the desire would be obvious).


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It wouldn't be so bad if he realized how unfair he is being. But he is genuinely hurt when I tell him no, and thinks I am being a selfish brat.  That stings.


Has he said you are being a selfish brat or do you just think he thinks that. I ask because I have been guilty of thinking dh felt a way he didn't, projecting my own feelings that I am being selfish, (even though I'm not). If he truly does feel you are being selfish I would suggest marriage counseling. Your talking will not convince him of anything, you will need help.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Has he said you are being a selfish brat or do you just think he thinks that. I ask because I have been guilty of thinking dh felt a way he didn't, projecting my own feelings that I am being selfish, (even though I'm not). If he truly does feel you are being selfish I would suggest marriage counseling. Your talking will not convince him of anything, you will need help.


He has never used the words brat. But he has frequently said selfish, spoiled, unfair... etc.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We are just going around in circles here.

Things were starting to get better. We made out in the shower, we went on a good date...

Then he started asking for a blow job again, and the argument just started all over. 

I told him when he started meeting my needs I would meet his. He returned that he has sex with me all the time.

He said it would be nice if I met his needs every once in a while, and he wouldn't have to reciprocate. 

I told him that was a two way street, and reminded him that he has never given me an orgasm our anything sexual without expecting something in return. 

He says he does meet my needs, we have sex all the time. He wants a turn every once in a while too. 

Discussion was over after that.

What I got out of the conversation is that he feels like it is a sacrifice to have sex with me. And that he thinks he should get a reward occasionally because I owe him.



Since when do you need payment or a reward for having sex with someone? That sounds pretty close to paying for sex. 

 How can I ever have sex with him without feeling like I now have a debt to him? It hurts to know that he is "keeping track" and feels like I owe him for having sex with me.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry, Curious. 

It does seem he doesn't view sex as something you guys do together, but rather something he is doing for you. 

I'm really baffled by how he sees things. It's sex, not taking the trash out.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He has never used the words brat. But he has frequently said selfish, spoiled, unfair... etc.


I'm so sorry CW!


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We are just going around in circles here.
> 
> Things were starting to get better. We made out in the shower, we went on a good date...
> 
> Then he started asking for a blow job again, and the argument just started all over.
> 
> I told him when he started meeting my needs I would meet his. He returned that he has sex with me all the time.
> 
> He said it would be nice if I met his needs every once in a while, and he wouldn't have to reciprocate.
> 
> I told him that was a two way street, and reminded him that he has never given me an orgasm our anything sexual without expecting something in return.
> 
> He says he does meet my needs, we have sex all the time. He wants a turn every once in a while too.
> 
> Discussion was over after that.
> 
> What I got out of the conversation is that he feels like it is a sacrifice to have sex with me. And that he thinks he should get a reward occasionally because I owe him.
> 
> 
> 
> Since when do you need payment or a reward for having sex with someone? That sounds pretty close to paying for sex.
> 
> How can I ever have sex with him without feeling like I now have a debt to him? It hurts to know that he is "keeping track" and feels like I owe him for having sex with me.


Well, now you have your answer for how he views sex with you, it's like he's doing you a favor. Doesn't sound like he enjoys sex, just the blow jobs because those are focused on him. You have to move forward with this information, ask him if he ever enjoyed sex with you. If he didn't, then all of the other bs excuses about how he didn't find you sexy or sex was not this or that was just excuses. Now you know that he didn't want sex anyway, even if you looked like a sex goddess movie star or whatever, he would view sex as giving you a favor.

My bit of advice is this, stop chasing him around for affection, sex or anything else. Go hard 180, he needs to see that this issue is important to you. Don't soften up, or cuddle him. He needs to feel what you have been feeling for this long. He needs to see that marriage is give and take, not just take.

You should really read MEM's thread about relationship temperature. Right now your hubby feels like he is entitled to hang out with friends overnight and do whatever, and you will always be there waiting for him like a loyal puppy wagging your tail when he comes home. Now you see that he keeps tabs on who owes who what in the relationship, he keeps score. Now you have to pull back, let the temperature drop a little bit. May feel uncomfortable for you because you are the "warm" partner. But you have to do this or else this situation will go on forever.

If you do the same things you always did, you will get what you always gotten.


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wow, I didn't know that I stole Scarlett's sig line, lol:lol:


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> How can I ever have sex with him without feeling like I now have a debt to him? It hurts to know that he is "keeping track" and feels like I owe him for having sex with me.


Ouch, and how unfair! So ridiculous, so absurd, so petty! It is suppose to be a real treat to have sex with you. A highly desirable treat. And nothing short of that.

Well, if he wants to keep track, then keep track of orgasms, and not just sexual encounters. Lets see if he can give you an orgasm without him having an orgasm. Make it a rule that whoever has fewer orgasms on the score card gets to pick the sexual encounter style. Man, he ain't getting a blow job until the next ice age.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I'm sorry, Curious.
> 
> It does seem he doesn't view sex as something you guys do together, but rather something he is doing for you.
> 
> I'm really baffled by how he sees things. It's sex, not taking the trash out.


:lol:

:iagree:

I am totally baffled too! Good one .. sex, not taking out the trash


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OMFG!!! I don't even know what to say.....what a selfish child he is!


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We are just going around in circles here.
> 
> Things were starting to get better. We made out in the shower, we went on a good date...
> 
> Then he started asking for a blow job again, and the argument just started all over.
> 
> I told him when he started meeting my needs I would meet his. He returned that he has sex with me all the time.
> 
> He said it would be nice if I met his needs every once in a while, and he wouldn't have to reciprocate.
> 
> I told him that was a two way street, and reminded him that he has never given me an orgasm our anything sexual without expecting something in return.
> 
> He says he does meet my needs, we have sex all the time. He wants a turn every once in a while too.
> 
> Discussion was over after that.
> 
> What I got out of the conversation is that he feels like it is a sacrifice to have sex with me. And that he thinks he should get a reward occasionally because I owe him.
> 
> 
> 
> Since when do you need payment or a reward for having sex with someone? That sounds pretty close to paying for sex.
> 
> How can I ever have sex with him without feeling like I now have a debt to him? It hurts to know that he is "keeping track" and feels like I owe him for having sex with me.


When he said this to you did you not ask him what the hell he was talking about? I mean what did you say when he said "hey, I have sex with you therefore I deserve a blow job (as if that's comparable to say going down on you and not expecting anything in return.) He obviously climaxes during sex so why does he view sex as only for you? Did you ask? This is very unclear.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I forget who said it on this thread but someone mentioned that your child of a husband is "transactional" meaning I won't give you A until you give me B. Essentially you entered into a "business"


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hitting like on this thread when you agree with someone almost feels twisted, cause I really don't "like" what is being said, I just think it's true. I really don't "like" that you are being treated this way, it's just so wrong, so opposite of the vows, love, honor, and cherish.

I am the HD in our relationship but my dear husband still makes every effort to make sure I am satisfied. With blood tests we have discovered his testerone is very low but still even if not in the "mood" and exhausted he will try to do something for me even if it's just hold me or the times he just can't handle being touched (that can go with low T) he still reaches out to me, kisses me, holds my hand, reminds me of his love to make sure I know I am cherished.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I always felt like my husband has seen sex as a chore. I've said that many times. We have argued about it many times.

He just reaffirmed it. 

When I bring it up, he just denys denys denys. He will say, "I don't think it's a chore. I love having sex with you baby. Your fun is the best part..." blah blah blah. I don't trust his words. 

I like what NewHubs said. He is VERY transactional. Not just with sex. If he helps me clean the house he will bring it up later, and say I owe him this and that. Or if we go out to eat and he pays, later he will say "I paid for your dinner so you should do xyz."

He doesn't give anything out of the love of his heart. He always expects payment. It makes me hesitant to ask him for help with anything, or let him pay for anything. And we are married for petes sake. 

I have no idea why he thinks sex is only for me. He won't admit it, or explain. The only thing I have gotten out of him is that it takes a lot longer for me to orgasm than it does him. So he feels we don't get equal time. So what. That's how we are made. And it's not like he gets ignored until "my turn" is over. Sex and foreplay is for both partners. I just don't get it. :scratchhead:

I am doing the 180. It will be hard but I won't be asking for sex for a very long time. I'm not bringing up anything sexual. I'm no longer the horny wife waiting to please. It's been over a week now, and he hasn't mentioned anything about sex except for him whining for a blow job. If he is waiting on me to make the first move, he is going to be waiting a long time.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Stay strong, curious. It sucks that you have to do this, but better done early in your marriage. 

I'm trying to undo 18 years of bad sex habits and of course I really, really wish I would have confronted this at your stage of marriage, not mine.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Something that bothers me is that he will say something like, "Maybe if you learned how to do a strip tease I'd want to have sex with you more." Or "Maybe if you wore lingerie more often I'd want more sex." etc.

Why should I have to keep trying to please him, and "talk him into sex?" He should just want to have sex with me. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to seduce him every time. Am I not good enough as I am? 

It makes me so mad. It makes me never want to wear lingerie, or try anything ever again. I know that is wrong of me.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well, I think it's because he does not want to make the changes that will make you happy and so he finds a way to blame you for his own shortcomings. 

And really you have tried those things and it doesn't change him, so that it proof that it is just an excuse. 

I really worry for you, though, because of what this is doing to the way you think of yourself. 

With my situation I have been able to change how I see my H's actions over this past year, with therapy. I tend to agree with Faithful Wife on this matter and the things she says make a lot of sense to me. I don't think it is personal, the rejection. 

However, by your husband "blaming" you for this mismatch that makes it personal. It makes it sound like you could change the outcome if you just did x,y,z. However history has shown that you are unable to change the outcome regardless of what you do. You do x,y,z and he leads you to believe he meant a,b,c.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That should say - while the rejection is not personal, while his own sexual alarm clock is not a reflection on you - it doesn't make the mismatch any easier to bear. 

I'm still somewhat mismatched with my husband, but when we are both trying we come a lot closer to being matched. He will stop trying and then start again when reminded. 

The mismatch is still painful, but I no longer feel it's my fault for any shortcoming I have.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It was Deejov who said your husband was "transactional."

You have done very well with learning to be assertive.

CW, what happens when babies enter the picture? You're going to have greater needs once that happens. Maybe you will sail through pregnancy or maybe you will be sick as a dog. Maybe your delivery will be a piece of cake and you'll have an easy baby, or maybe your delivery will be a horror story like my first delivery was with a colicky baby on top of that!

THIS IS UNWORKABLE! This is not what sex is about. This is not what marriage is about. Married people take care of each other because that's what they promised to do.

I hate suggesting this because it is pure manipulation but if you have any hope of being able to live with this man the rest of your life happily, he has GOT to get with the program!

1. Ramp up your sexy in a big way. Toss out old ratty sleep wear and start wearing silky nighties every night. Wear sexy bra and panties every day. This is just to tease the sh!t out of him!

2. Tell him you will *never* give him another BJ. Tell him you are finished with the quid pro quo of sex. He has shown himself to only want to take care of your needs so that you will take care of his.

3. No more sex. Period! Yes this will hurt you too. But right now you don't have a husband, you have a lazy room mate with whom you also have sex. Knock it off entirely. 

4. Stop doing his laundry, split all household chores down the middle. If you can't afford to pay you half of the dinner bill don't go, tell him you can't afford it. If he says he'll pay tell him no thanks because he'll just hold it over your head anyway.

5. Be the very best, happiest, friendliest, funniest room mate ever, but don't be a wife! Don't seek affection, don't sit next to him on the couch, don't cuddle with him. Don't clean up after him. At some point he will probably say something like he pays for more stuff. Tell him that this is what he agreed to when you two moved in together and if he wants to change the expectations you'll need more time to find another place to live.

This will take your marriage to the brink. It's drastic. But you husband needs a serious wake up call because his idea of marriage and love is waaaay the hell off!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MissScarlett~ Did your husband always try when you mentioned it, or is this something new? Just curious?

Knowing they are trying makes a huge difference (even if it falls short, you know they care). 

Curious Wife~ this whole thing is not about you! There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with you, nothing you need to change so you will be sexy enough, thin enough, pretty enough, curvy enough, nothing. This is something he needs to fix. Doing the 180 will give him pause to do that AND gives you freedom, you don't have to worry about it, just go on your own merry way, taake care of your own needs when you need, not worrying about saving anything for him, freedom. 

He's acting like a jerk but could he just be passing the blame, looking for something different, cause he's frustrated about his own lack of interest. Not excusing him, there is no reason to ever treat other people like crap but could that be what is happening.

Why is there no like button on the bottom of AnonPink's post? It is drastic but might be what you have to do before giving up. I'd take the budget and write out the split, chart it out as you do it so you can pull it out and show him if you need to. Would I ever do this, can't really answer that as I'm living with a husband, not a roomate with benefits. I do especially like the part of ramping up your sexy while not giving him any, day after day.:lol:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Anon I'm way ahead of you girl!

The last few days I have been wearing more provocative stuff to bed.  Without even thinking about it. 

I am done doing all the chores. The last week whenever something needed done I didn't just do it. I made him get off the couch, and he helped me. If I was cleaning something, he better be cleaning something too. Equal.

Sex is touchy. I doubt I can tell him no forever. Just because I know how I am.

However. He is going to have to put a LOT of effort to get me interested. Right now my attraction for him is zip. So I can't really see him putting in enough effort to romance me into it any time soon.

If he wants to have sex, it will be on my terms for my enjoyment. I'm done being a pleaser, I'm done putting in all the effort. Maybe I'll just lay back and take for once.

Roommates with benefits sound nice. My benefit.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> MissScarlett~ Did your husband always try when you mentioned it, or is this something new? Just curious?.


We never talked about sex ever. 

The first time we talked about it was by me saying last March - I've never had an orgasm with you and bursting into tears after we got back from the grocery store one day. 

So this is all new for Miss Scarlett and I certainly wish I would have handled it at Curious's age and not 43, that's for sure.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

BTW, your H is a terrible score keeper if he thinks he's "in the lead" and you have some catching up to do.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> BTW, your H is a terrible score keeper if he thinks he's "in the lead" and you have some catching up to do.


:iagree:

But if he is transactional, he is counting his financial contribution in the mix. Thus he will always be giving more than he's getting.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> :iagree:
> 
> But if he is transactional, he is counting his financial contribution in the mix. Thus he will always be giving more than he's getting.


Funny thing is, he wanted me to be a SAHM. :scratchhead:

I don't know how that would ever work. I would feel like I could never spend "his" money. 

His family has seen how he acts with his money, and chores. They have even asked me if I wanted his dad to sit down and have a talk with him about how marriage is a partnership and a relationship, not a business.

They don't know he is the same with sex.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This last exchange got me thinking about kids. When kids are young they have no sense of the past. You can take them for ice cream a thousand times and the 1001st time say no and they will claim "you NEVER take us for ice cream!" This reminds me of your H very much. You've given him more free BJs than I've had in my life, and he still claims you NEVER do anything just for him. And even better he claims that he gives you sex ALL THE TIME. 

Your H can not see past HIMSELF where you are concerned. Is he that way with his friends too? If he is, then I'd say that's just him live with it or don't. If he is more giving with his friends, then (to me) that says something about what's important to him and how you rank on his list of important people. 

Don't put up with his crap anymore, Curious. You're a great woman that thousands of men would love to be with. I don't really see you getting him to come around, BUT at my advanced age, I've decided I'd rather have something that just works than something that is just work. Not saying everything is always easy, but when the WHOLE DAMNED THING is work, it's time for me to just go. Especially if the other person denies that any work needs to be done.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Funny thing is, he wanted me to be a SAHM. :scratchhead:
> 
> I don't know how that would ever work. I would feel like I could never spend "his" money.
> 
> His family has seen how he acts with his money, and chores. They have even asked me if I wanted his dad to sit down and have a talk with him about how marriage is a partnership and a relationship, not a business.
> 
> They don't know he is the same with sex.


Next time they offer, say yes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> This last exchange got me thinking about kids. When kids are young they have no sense of the past. You can take them for ice cream a thousand times and the 1001st time say no and they will claim "you NEVER take us for ice cream!" This reminds me of your H very much. You've given him more free BJs than I've had in my life, and he still claims you NEVER do anything just for him. And even better he claims that he gives you sex ALL THE TIME.


This made me chuckle. That is him. I told him yes yes yes for a year. Then I finally put my foot down, and tell him no and all the sudden he thinks I ALWAYS say no. What happened to all the others times. 

I also agree that it is funny that he thinks he has sex with me all the time. Those were his exact words. I don't see sex 2 or 3 times a week all the time. Especially when I'm rejected half the time. 



> Your H can not see past HIMSELF where you are concerned. Is he that way with his friends too? If he is, then I'd say that's just him live with it or don't. If he is more giving with his friends, then (to me) that says something about what's important to him and how you rank on his list of important people.


No he is not that way with his friends. I've often felt I ranked below his friends. Although he claims I don't, and that if I feel that way it's unintentional.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Next time they offer, say yes.


I don't think it would help. But I'd be willing to let them try.

The thing I don't understand, is I have no idea where he gets his selfishness from.

His family is so unselfish! His mom is a SAHM. His dad pays for everything, and never complains. They would give you anything you asked for, or help you anyway possible. Sweet sweet people.

Maybe they were so unselfish, they gave their kids anything they could. Which in turn made the kids spoiled. That's the only explanation I can think of. :scratchhead:


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't think it would help. But I'd be willing to let them try.
> 
> The thing I don't understand, is *I have no idea where he gets his selfishness from.*
> 
> His family is so unselfish! His mom is a SAHM. His dad pays for everything, and never complains. They would give you anything you asked for, or help you anyway possible. Sweet sweet people.
> 
> Maybe they were so unselfish, they gave their kids anything they could. Which in turn made the kids spoiled. That's the only explanation I can think of. :scratchhead:


Your answer is in what you just wrote.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't think it would help. But I'd be willing to let them try.
> 
> The thing I don't understand, is I have no idea where he gets his selfishness from.
> 
> His family is so unselfish! His mom is a SAHM. His dad pays for everything, and never complains. They would give you anything you asked for, or help you anyway possible. Sweet sweet people.
> 
> Maybe they were so unselfish, they gave their kids anything they could. Which in turn made the kids spoiled. That's the only explanation I can think of. :scratchhead:


This is exactly what happens when parents helicopter their children. This is what happens when parents don't allow their kids to learn from their own mistakes. This is what happens when parents intervene in kids squabbles so their precious darling doesn't get his feelings hurt.

Why do you think they offered to talk to him? Because they realize they created this spoiled man and now they feel responsible to help fix it.

This is why I think your husband needs to REALLY HURT for any change to be meaningful and long lasting. He has grown up thinking that he can get whatever he wants and all he has to do is tow the line for a bit. He probably wasn't a trouble maker so his parents didn't have to come down hard on him, but gave him all kinds of unearned stuff.

Giving unearned rewards.
Ending consequences too early because he's been so good....

I never ground my kids for a set period of time. I tell them your price ledges [privileges] have been revoked until I see meaningful change.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Funny thing is, he wanted me to be a SAHM. :scratchhead:
> 
> I don't know how that would ever work. I would feel like I could never spend "his" money.
> 
> His family has seen how he acts with his money, and chores. They have even asked me if I wanted his dad to sit down and have a talk with him about how marriage is a partnership and a relationship, not a business.
> 
> They don't know he is the same with sex.


Is he an only child? As Anon stated already, your husband was spoiled rotten as a kid. IMHO, you have showed more patience with him than most woman would.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Is he an only child? As Anon stated already, your husband was spoiled rotten as a kid. IMHO, you have showed more patience with him than most woman would.


Nope. He grew up in a family of 6 kids.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Is he the youngest? Usually kids from big families are really excellent about understanding the needs of others. Did he has a terribly illness as a child maybe?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Is he the youngest? Usually kids from big families are really excellent about understanding the needs of others. Did he has a terribly illness as a child maybe?


No illness. (I'm the sick one.)

He was the 2nd oldest. 

He just defys all norms.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No illness. (I'm the sick one.)
> 
> He was the 2nd oldest.
> 
> He just defys all norms.


Sometimes different kids just turn out different or get a different message.

Regardless of why, he is pretty selfish and transactional (at least with you). He does not do anything without expecting something in return. At some point, getting into the why will only distract you.

I am on board with most of AP's suggestions. 

I am not sure how else to get to him. Thinking out loud for a moment, one thought is the next time he asks for a BJ, ask him what he will give you in return. See what he says.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No he is not that way with his friends. I've often felt I ranked below his friends. Although he claims I don't, and that if I feel that way it's unintentional.


We decided a long time ago that intentional or not how the other person feels need to be paid attention to. If my husband or I feel we are being shorted than whether or not the other person "meant" to do it really makes no difference. What is important is that we right it. Of course we are dealing with 2 adults, not one adult (you) and one child (your husband).



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't think it would help. But I'd be willing to let them try.
> 
> The thing I don't understand, is I have no idea where he gets his selfishness from.
> 
> His family is so unselfish! His mom is a SAHM. His dad pays for everything, and never complains. They would give you anything you asked for, or help you anyway possible. Sweet sweet people.
> 
> Maybe they were so unselfish, they gave their kids anything they could. Which in turn made the kids spoiled. That's the only explanation I can think of. :scratchhead:


I wouldn't just wait till it comes up, I would talk to his parents and say I've changed my mind, I would like you to talk to him. Then it's not just coming from you.

Look up millenials and narcism there are many discussions on where this comes from, your husband is the poster child. It is not the whole generation but there are those that stand out that set the stereotype.



Anon Pink said:


> This is exactly what happens when parents helicopter their children. This is what happens when parents don't allow their kids to learn from their own mistakes. This is what happens when parents intervene in kids squabbles so their precious darling doesn't get his feelings hurt.
> 
> Why do you think they offered to talk to him? Because they realize they created this spoiled man and now they feel responsible to help fix it.
> 
> This is why I think your husband needs to REALLY HURT for any change to be meaningful and long lasting. He has grown up thinking that he can get whatever he wants and all he has to do is tow the line for a bit. He probably wasn't a trouble maker so his parents didn't have to come down hard on him, but gave him all kinds of unearned stuff.
> 
> Giving unearned rewards.
> Ending consequences too early because he's been so good....
> 
> I never ground my kids for a set period of time. I tell them your price ledges [privileges] have been revoked until I see meaningful change.


Thank you for the wonderful parenting insight reminder.



TheCuriousWife said:


> Nope. He grew up in a family of 6 kids.


If you would have said 5 kids I would have thought you were married to my friends oldest son! He's the kind of kid who chokes someone then says it was there fault for making him mad. Since this incident it has helped us remember to remind our kids that you NEVER have the right to hurt someone else no matter how much they make you mad, self defense(boundaries) is okay but not doing harm.

Thoughts from watching my friends son. Did his parents let him get away with treating his siblings poorly? Do the guys in there family have special privileges the females don't? Is it discussed that guys are always in the mood and females aren't? If he hasn't learned how to deal with his feelings (mom and dad just fix things for him) he may not know how to deal with it. Let his parents talk to him, let them finish their job. Sorry they didn't do it earlier but you need to lay out everything for them and let them help. You've got to let someone help. And yes he may be embarrassed and upset you told them or they may be very discreet and not let him know how much they know (some people are really good at that). Either way you need help to solve this, he's not listening to you, he thinks your just being selfish.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Something is working! :smthumbup:

I have been cordial, and friendly. But have been non nonchalant about anything intimate. Not one word had been spoken by either of us about sex. I imagine he was wanting me to make the first move.

Well last night he washed all the dishes while I was at school. He snuggled me in our sleep. This morning he changed in front of me without hiding under his robe. (I can't remember the last time I saw him changing.) He gave me a massage and kissed all over me. 

He was holding me and suddenly he said, "We've got to have sex soon. Do you know how long it's been? It's been a week and a half. Your probably dying." 

I was trying to continue with the nonchalant attitude so I told him I was feeling fine. He got real quiet and asked me if I ever even liked having sex with him. He was visibly upset, and this had been brewing for a while.

That ended the silence and he started spilling. He said he was so sorry that he doesn't satisfy my sexually. That he doesn't know why he doesn't like sex. He swears he always has fun when we do it, but for some reason he has trouble getting in the mindset for it, and starting it. 

He said he has been reading some articles, and that he read that libido sometimes increases the more you do it. So he wants to try doing more often and see if that helps. 

Whoa. Stop right there. I don't care about doing it more often, but him telling me that shows two things.

1. He realizes he has a problem, and he admits it.
2. He is looking for help, and trying to work on it.

Praise the Lord! 

He asked me to be patient with him, and help him work to become a better husband. He seemed truly sorry, and looked very sad and guilty. 

Tonight will be a great way to test the waters. We are going out again with his friend who started this whole blow up a couple weeks ago. Maybe I will try to hold his hand again, and see his reaction. I'm not afraid to make a scene this time. And I will know if he is sincere or just blowing smoke.

He wants to have sex tonight. But we won't be home until late late. I told him it will be late, and I don't know if I'll be ready for sex. He told me he would "eat at the y" as long as my little heart desires. He asked if I would just consider it, and keep it an option. I told him I am open to let him _try_ to get me in the mood. So we'll see what he does. 

All this is great, but I am no fool. Words don't mean anything without actions. I'll be watching. 

He did something really out of the ordinary. He wanted me to, and let me take some cough "racy" photos of him on my phone. He has never let me take a photo of him. :scratchhead:

Now he says he is always available for me, even when he's not in the mood.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's a control issue with him "never wanting sex." If you've ever read MEMs temperature thread you should read that post. He is keeping you at arms length. When you're hot, he responds with cold. Because he's immature, he blames you for him being cold.

He actually said he doesn't like sex except when he's actually having sex? <---- that needs a LOT more discussion!

You've done the right thing to back waaaaaay off. I'm thinking you might want to flirt very subtly with his friend. Maybe just make more eye contact with the friend than with him while keeping physical distance from your H.

I think he has reached a breaking point but he is still looking outside of himself for reasons and not inside. And this is something he has to do.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've read the temperature thread.

He has always said that about sex. He likes it when we are having sex. But for some reason it is hard for him to get into the mood. He doesn't know why. He has very responsive desire. 

I won't be flirting with his friend. Several years ago my husband got jealous of us. It caused our biggest fight in our relationship. I could care less about his friend, but he is nice and friendly, and easy to talk to. My husband is the strong silent type. So he got very upset about how chatty we were. It was ridiculous. But there is no way I'm going to stir up that pot again.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm not a fan of causing intentional pain, but AP does have a point.

It seems this is your husbands side of the cycle, he presses till you pull away and then he reels you back in. It doesn't seem he puts any effort in until you withdrawal. Then he puts in the minimal effort to get things to return to their normal state and gradually starts decreasing his effort until it is at 0 again and you withdrawal. 

I'm afraid he's going to continue this cycle until he becomes very aware of the reality that you could leave him for good. I don't think he will exhibit real change until he has the fear of God that you will leave him and not just this regular cycle stuff where he gives enough to right the balance and then feels secure enough to retreat.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he thinks it could be his libido I would suggest giving this to him. How to Increase Testosterone Naturally | The Art of Manliness There is a whole bunch of info on there but this is the post on doubling your T levels in 90 days. Leave it all on him, take him at his word but leave it all on him. 

My husband is a very loving generous man but he has had some of these troubles as well (the part of being good once he's going but not really having a high interest). Sure your husband has dealt with it poorly but he is young, unsure, and probably embarassed. My husband was older and we had talked about these subjects quite a bit by the time these issues came up. Give him a chance, leaving it all on him, letting him make ALL moves. But take a chance and believe him in that it could be caused by his low libido (which can be caused by low T). If you look at low T symptoms he sounds like he really could fit it. If this is it, I would wait to address his hurtful actions after his levels are up, your conversation will go much smoother with less defensiveness if you wait, really truly it will.

His actions that are hurtful really could be more of reactions than actions.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I'm not a fan of causing intentional pain, but AP does have a point.
> 
> It seems this is your husbands side of the cycle, he presses till you pull away and then he reels you back in. It doesn't seem he puts any effort in until you withdrawal. Then he puts in the minimal effort to get things to return to their normal state and gradually starts decreasing his effort until it is at 0 again and you withdrawal.
> 
> I'm afraid he's going to continue this cycle until he becomes very aware of the reality that you could leave him for good. I don't think he will exhibit real change until he has the fear of God that you will leave him and not just this regular cycle stuff where he gives enough to right the balance and then feels secure enough to retreat.


Exactly what I was thinking too. Have a head ache today so I'm not connecting all the dots. Can you just follow me around and fill in the blanks for me?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That ended the silence and he started spilling. He said he was so sorry that he doesn't satisfy my sexually. That he doesn't know why he doesn't like sex. He swears he always has fun when we do it, but for some reason he has trouble getting in the mindset for it, and starting it.


Except that he certainly thinks about getting BJs from you. He does not like sex (because that requires him making an effort) but he loves you servicing him.

Yes, that is a very cynical interpretation by me. But I can't help note that he claims (with tears in his eyes) that he has trouble getting in the mindset when it is about the two of you, but has not such trouble when it is all about him.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Except that he certainly thinks about getting BJs from you. He does not like sex (because that requires him making an effort) but he loves you servicing him.
> 
> Yes, that is a very cynical interpretation by me. But I can't help note that he claims (with tears in his eyes) that he has trouble getting in the mindset when it is about the two of you, but has not such trouble when it is all about him.



:iagree:
Wish I could like this 10 times!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Except that he certainly thinks about getting BJs from you. He does not like sex (because that requires him making an effort) but he loves you servicing him.
> 
> Yes, that is a very cynical interpretation by me. But I can't help note that he claims (with tears in his eyes) that he has trouble getting in the mindset when it is about the two of you, but has not such trouble when it is all about him.


I'm not trying to defend his less than stellar actions but I think CW should give him a chance. Maybe it is low libido that can be fixed.

Low T levels do actually reduce your energy, it is less effort, less effort requires less energy, with a bj he can just focus on that one thing. low T takes lots of focus to get there. If she at one time claimed she likes giving him bjs then he could think they are at least intimate. Makes no sense to us but issues of responses with hormones off rarely make sense to others (or even ourselves at times). When my hormones are off I don't even think my own responses make sense! CW you yourself have called the time around your period cranky time and admitted that you know part of it is your hormones. He really may be low, if so that could be your answer. Yes he's young but there have been more and more incidences of guys in their 20s having low T. Also stress makes T levels go down. You lay low, you take the pressure off of him, less stress levels his T levels go up slightly, not enough to fix the problem but enough to cause some interest. I've walked this road and truly it can be the hormones, why not see.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I'm not trying to defend his less than stellar actions but I think CW should give him a chance. Maybe it is low libido that can be fixed.
> 
> Low T levels do actually reduce your energy, it is less effort, less effort requires less energy, with a bj he can just focus on that one thing. low T takes lots of focus to get there. If she at one time claimed she likes giving him bjs then he could think they are at least intimate. Makes no sense to us but issues of responses with hormones off rarely make sense to others (or even ourselves at times). When my hormones are off I don't even think my own responses make sense! CW you yourself have called the time around your period cranky time and admitted that you know part of it is your hormones. He really may be low, if so that could be your answer. Yes he's young but there have been more and more incidences of guys in their 20s having low T. Also stress makes T levels go down. You lay low, you take the pressure off of him, less stress levels his T levels go up slightly, not enough to fix the problem but enough to cause some interest. I've walked this road and truly it can be the hormones, why not see.


I don't disagree that it might be fixable. Based on this, perhaps she needs to demand that he see a doctor for a complete physical.

But it is important to see that he is great with words, but not so much with actions. In this case, his actions are the opposite of his words. So I think she needs to be cautious as they move forward on this.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> :iagree:
> Wish I could like this 10 times!


I liked it for you


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh yes. I have not forgotten the fact that although he says he doesn't like sex, he doesn't mind blow jobs. AKA he gets to be lazy. 

I have bad memory, but not that bad. lol.

He is great with words. We have done this rodeo plenty times before, so I am not too naive where I will just believe him and everything will be rainbows.

I am cautious, and will continue to watch him with hawk eyes. 

I will also continue to be nonchalant about intimacy. Turning the temperature down. One of us is going to have to put a lot of effort into this relationship, and for once it is not going to be me.


----------



## Convection

TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh yes. I have not forgotten the fact that although he says he doesn't like sex, he doesn't mind blow jobs. AKA he gets to be lazy.
> 
> I have bad memory, but not that bad. lol.
> 
> He is great with words. We have done this rodeo plenty times before, so I am not too naive where I will just believe him and everything will be rainbows.
> 
> I am cautious, and will continue to watch him with hawk eyes.
> 
> I will also continue to be nonchalant about intimacy. Turning the temperature down. One of us is going to have to put a lot of effort into this relationship, and for once it is not going to be me.


Good. This needs to be a *sustained* effort on his part before you believe any change has taken place. You can be responsive and open to his actions but he needs to carry the load for some time - a few months, at least.

People do not change overnight. Let him prove it through his actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've read the temperature thread.
> 
> He has always said that about sex. He likes it when we are having sex. But for some reason it is hard for him to get into the mood. He doesn't know why. He has very responsive desire.


This is a clear sign of what I've always felt...he just isn't that sexual. People who aren't that sexual (by nature, not by abuse) don't know why they are the way they are. They can enjoy sex when they have it, they can have orgasms...they just don't think that much about it in between. They don't understand HD people and why they are thinking about sex all the time.

When a woman is LD, people think "yeah that's normal". When a man is LD, people think "he's gay" or "he's low T" or whatever else.

The reality is there are MANY people who are naturally LD, both men and women.

I don't think your H is asexual, but I wrote a recent blog post about this issue:

http://www.imarriedasexgod.com/2014/04/asexuality-and-gray-sexuality.html

I think in order to understand sexuality, we need to understand asexuality, and accept that it is part of the scale of NORMAL human sexuality.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Also Curious....I would suggest you go to AVEN and read around their forum a bit...


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is a clear sign of what I've always felt...he just isn't that sexual. People who aren't that sexual (by nature, not by abuse) don't know why they are the way they are. They can enjoy sex when they have it, they can have orgasms...they just don't think that much about it in between. They don't understand HD people and why they are thinking about sex all the time.
> 
> When a woman is LD, people think "yeah that's normal". When a man is LD, people think "he's gay" or "he's low T" or whatever else.
> 
> The reality is there are MANY people who are naturally LD, both men and women.
> 
> I don't think your H is asexual, but I wrote a recent blog post about this issue:
> 
> I Married a Sex God: Asexuality and Gray-Sexuality
> 
> I think in order to understand sexuality, we need to understand asexuality, and accept that it is part of the scale of NORMAL human sexuality.


Except he is in fact sexual, just in a very selfish manner. He loves sex with him as the center of attention. He only doesn't "think" about it when it comes to sex that involves CW as the focal point or that requires effort on his part.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm not sure he "loves sex" with him as the center of attention.

I have heard about many not-very-sexual men who are quick to accept or ask for a blow job (and nothing else).

Wanting an orgasm does not mean you are a sexual person.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is a clear sign of what I've always felt...he just isn't that sexual. People who aren't that sexual (by nature, not by abuse) don't know why they are the way they are. They can enjoy sex when they have it, they can have orgasms...they just don't think that much about it in between. They don't understand HD people and why they are thinking about sex all the time.
> 
> When a woman is LD, people think "yeah that's normal". When a man is LD, people think "he's gay" or "he's low T" or whatever else.
> 
> The reality is there are MANY people who are naturally LD, both men and women.
> 
> I don't think your H is asexual, but I wrote a recent blog post about this issue:
> :lol:
> I Married a Sex God: Asexuality and Gray-Sexuality
> 
> I think in order to understand sexuality, we need to understand asexuality, and accept that it is part of the scale of NORMAL human sexuality.


Would it hurt to get a simple blood test to rule out low T? I don't doubt that being asexual or not that sexual exists but it seems to jump to a conclusion when a simple blood test could tell him where his T levels are, if they are normal then investigate the "he's just not sexual" option, on the other hand if he is low you can address that. The health risks of low T are numerous this is just a noticeable way it shows up. 

Some of us mention it because the irritability, tiredness etc sound all too familiar. We've been there and we've solved it. 

You can find places to be tested online that you don't even have to talk to your doctor if your embarassed about it and it costs less than $50. In our town it is one of the blood tests you can order for yourself thru one of our local labs. If someone said they felt chest pain we wouldn't look how to explain it away, instead we would say get it checked out that could be dangerous. Why not this! Our hormones protect us as well as make us horney.

By the way if a women is LD I would suggest she get her hormones checked to, preferably by a doc who has extended training in this area. Hormones at healthy levels are an important protectant against different cancers, heart disease, bone loss, etc. There are many lifestyle choices we can change if we find our current lifestyle does not support healthy hormone levels.

Sorry for the soap box we've just found this to make a huge difference in our lives. Before I could see my husband trying his hardest to be patient with the kids, now it flows much easier. The fun loving guy imarried is back.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I never said he should not get a T test.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> *This is a clear sign of what I've always felt...he just isn't that sexual.* People who aren't that sexual (by nature, not by abuse) don't know why they are the way they are. They can enjoy sex when they have it, they can have orgasms...they just don't think that much about it in between. They don't understand HD people and why they are thinking about sex all the time.
> 
> When a woman is LD, people think "yeah that's normal". *When a man is LD, people think "he's gay" or "he's low T" or whatever else.*
> 
> The reality is there are MANY people who are naturally LD, both men and women.


The bolded parts are where I got the idea you were against T testing and thought she should just accept it. Sorry I misunderstood you!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As for testosterone testing for anyone who may be interested here are some links.

Here is a link to an online place to get hormones tested. They have blood spot tests $34 or saliva tests $35. Hormone Test Kits- Blood
Hormone Test Kits - Saliva

For a regular blood draw this is where we can go in our area, they may be in yours as well. The testosterone by itself is $49.
https://www.directlabs.com/Default.aspx?&catid=90&language=en-US&tabid=55 You order your test online, then go in and get it drawn.
https://health-tests-direct.com/ordering-page Here is another one that's even cheaper.

We largely used the info on the art of manliness page to get his levels up.


----------



## Abc123wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Something that bothers me is that he will say something like, "Maybe if you learned how to do a strip tease I'd want to have sex with you more." Or "Maybe if you wore lingerie more often I'd want more sex." etc.
> 
> Why should I have to keep trying to please him, and "talk him into sex?" He should just want to have sex with me. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to seduce him every time. Am I not good enough as I am?
> 
> It makes me so mad. It makes me never want to wear lingerie, or try anything ever again. I know that is wrong of me.


I have followed your thread for a while but never commented. But I can't stay silent any longer! Any guy in his early 20s shouldn't need anything to want to jump on his wife right then and there. A tiny glimpse of his wife as she is changing her clothes or getting into the shower, even just seeing his woman in a ratty old t-shirt will do it! You should not feel bad that you aren't enticing enough. The issue is him, not you! He is the one that is abnormal for that age, definitely not you!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Abc123wife said:


> I have followed your thread for a while but never commented. But I can't stay silent any longer! Any guy in his early 20s shouldn't need anything to want to jump on his wife right then and there. A tiny glimpse of his wife as she is changing her clothes or getting into the shower, even just seeing his woman in a ratty old t-shirt will do it! You should not feel bad that you aren't enticing enough. The issue is him, not you! He is the one that is abnormal for that age, definitely not you!


:iagree:

If he's having trouble it's not your problem of not being sexy enough.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Abc123wife said:


> I have followed your thread for a while but never commented. But I can't stay silent any longer! Any guy in his early 20s shouldn't need anything to want to jump on his wife right then and there. A tiny glimpse of his wife as she is changing her clothes or getting into the shower, even just seeing his woman in a ratty old t-shirt will do it! You should not feel bad that you aren't enticing enough. The issue is him, not you! He is the one that is abnormal for that age, definitely not you!


But saying stuff like this doesn't help anyone, especially not Curious.

There is no point in talking about how a man or woman "should" feel or act. We are NOT all the same.

He does not feel a significant amount of sexual attraction, period. He has been honest about this. He knows this hurts her feelings and he doesn't want to hurt her, but he feels how he feels...there is nothing wrong with him, he just isn't like "most" guys.

LD people feel genuinely marginalized by HD people, and this is why. Their experience is not considered valid. They are told they are not normal, they must be gay, etc.

In Curious's H's case, he may in fact have low T.

But he also may just be naturally LD or gray sexual.

Either way...why can he not be accepted as he is without all the insults toward him?

For an LD person, he actually IS showing signs of trying to work on this with Curious....many LD people never get to the point he has gotten to. 

He should be given credit for beginning to become aware that his natural state is what is causing Curious so much grief. Many truly LD people never even get this far.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> But saying stuff like this doesn't help anyone, especially not Curious.
> 
> There is no point in talking about how a man or woman "should" feel or act. We are NOT all the same.
> 
> He does not feel a significant amount of sexual attraction, period. He has been honest about this. He knows this hurts her feelings and he doesn't want to hurt her, but he feels how he feels...there is nothing wrong with him, he just isn't like "most" guys.
> 
> LD people feel genuinely marginalized by HD people, and this is why. Their experience is not considered valid. They are told they are not normal, they must be gay, etc.
> 
> In Curious's H's case, he may in fact have low T.
> 
> But he also may just be naturally LD or gray sexual.
> 
> Either way...why can he not be accepted as he is without all the insults toward him?
> 
> For an LD person, he actually IS showing signs of trying to work on this with Curious....many LD people never get to the point he has gotten to.
> 
> He should be given credit for beginning to become aware that his natural state is what is causing Curious so much grief. Many truly LD people never even get this far.


:iagree:

It's really "taboo" for a guy to be LD. Guys, stereo-typically, are supposed to be HD, wanting sex at the drop of a hat. When a guy doesn't act that way, they are seen as weird, gay, etc. 

I think a lot of LD guys tend to have mental blocks that prevent them from getting sexual(not all, some have other things going on - low T for example, blood pressure issues, etc.). My husband will deal with this at times and it's very frustrating for me(being HD). He is a horrible worry-wart and his mind tends to be all over the place, so he doesn't always get in the mood quickly or at all. It has been a work in progress to get him to learn how to let things go(mentally) and just be in the moment. We're still working on it, but it's slowly getting better.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> In Curious's H's case, he may in fact have low T.
> 
> But he also may just be naturally LD or gray sexual.
> 
> Either way...why can he not be accepted as he is without all the insults toward him?
> 
> For an LD person, he actually IS showing signs of trying to work on this with Curious....many LD people never get to the point he has gotten to.
> 
> He should be given credit for beginning to become aware that his natural state is what is causing Curious so much grief. Many truly LD people never even get this far.


Or he just may be immature and selfish. In view of his many other issues, I don't think this can be overlooked in favor of an amorphous diagnosis of him just not being that sexual.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have been reading and responding to Curious for well over a year. Everything she is saying is consistent with him being gray sexual.

The fact that he is also selfish and immature really has little to do with it, IMO, because if he were HD and also selfish and immature, he may play video games with his friends all weekend but he would ALSO be boning her at every opportunity.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> For an LD person, he actually IS showing signs of trying to work on this with Curious....many LD people never get to the point he has gotten to.
> 
> He should be given credit for beginning to become aware that his natural state is what is causing Curious so much grief. Many truly LD people never even get this far.


Absolutely! It is really difficult to acknowledge you are something other than "average" or "normal". He needed help seeing this is a problem in their marriage but he seems to be beginning to see the light. That is a step of maturity. The person who has low libido has trouble seeing this as a real problem, regardless of where the lowness comes from. 

When my husband was low he would often miss signals from me, ones that worked before, ones that work again. I don't think they are always trying to ignore signals after all it was more work for my husband when he missed signals then when he noticed them. So regardless of where it comes from the LD may look selfish to those of us who think we are being obvious, cause it is just not on their radar.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I have been reading and responding to Curious for well over a year. Everything she is saying is consistent with him being gray sexual.
> 
> The fact that he is also selfish and immature really has little to do with it, IMO, because if he were HD and also selfish and immature, he may play video games with his friends all weekend but he would ALSO be boning her at every opportunity.


The definition of "gray sexual" is so broad and vague as to be useless.

I agree that he could be LD. There is certainly evidence to point to it. But to ignore the evidence that does not fit or explore alternative theories to rule them out makes no sense to me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Why are you assuming that I have ignored the evidence that does not fit or explore alternative theories? Just because YOU only know of ONE of my posts to Curious?

Again...I've been reading and talking with Curious for over a year. I've read her go through all the other explanations...gay, affair, porn habit, childhood abuse, etc. None of those things have come up with ANYTHING that can be linked to his lack of sexual desire and attraction.

What she HAS said, many times, is to repeat things HE says that are common for LD people to say (and gray sexual is the same as LD, by the way...there is no clear definition for EITHER because there is a very broad range within LD/gray sexual). That is the one consistent thing that has not changed in her story. There has not been any upswings in his desire for intercourse or his showing strong sexual attraction. AND HE RECENTLY TOLD HER STRAIGHT UP HE DOESN'T KNOW WHY BUT HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO SEX AND NEVER HAS BEEN.

So where is your evidence that I have ignored any evidence that does not fit my theory?

Again, he is ALSO selfish and immature. But being selfish and immature do not stop someone who has a strong sex drive from having sex.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Why are you assuming that I have ignored the evidence that does not fit or explore alternative theories? Just because YOU only know of ONE of my posts to Curious?
> 
> Again...I've been reading and talking with Curious for over a year. I've read her go through all the other explanations...gay, affair, porn habit, childhood abuse, etc. None of those things have come up with ANYTHING that can be linked to his lack of sexual desire and attraction.
> 
> What she HAS said, many times, is to repeat things HE says that are common for LD people to say (and gray sexual is the same as LD, by the way...there is no clear definition for EITHER because there is a very broad range within LD/gray sexual). That is the one consistent thing that has not changed in her story. There has not been any upswings in his desire for intercourse or his showing strong sexual attraction. AND HE RECENTLY TOLD HER STRAIGHT UP HE DOESN'T KNOW WHY BUT HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO SEX AND NEVER HAS BEEN.
> 
> So where is your evidence that I have ignored any evidence that does not fit my theory?
> 
> Again, he is ALSO selfish and immature. But being selfish and immature do not stop someone who has a strong sex drive from having sex.


The only thing that doesn't fit with your theory is that he still manages to have sex a couple times a week according to the OP. Can you really still be considered LD if you're having sex weekly? Or is it about the fact that he seems to have no wish to initiate etc?


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

She describes it as if he will "forget" all about PIV sex for as long as she doesn't bring it up. If she were to never bring up sex, he would probably default to his natural level of asking for a bj once a week. A bj by itself is a very passive act, even less energetic than masturbating in some cases. He seems to view PIV sex as a favor to her. These things are all consistent with an LD man, especially a very young one.

Don't forget the several times he has actually SAID to her "I just don't think about sex that much" or that he just doesn't get that into it. He isn't insulting her, he is describing his natural proclivity level.

When someone tells you who they are, believe them.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> The only thing that doesn't fit with your theory is that he still manages to have sex a couple times a week according to the OP. Can you really still be considered LD if you're having sex weekly? Or is it about the fact that he seems to have no wish to initiate etc?


It is only by her initiation. When my husband's T was low, he "really" was LD and yes we were still doing something more than once a week. Most of the reason was simply because my loving husband knows I turn into a pumpkin after midnight on the third day. I try my hardest but I just get weepy. My weepiness and his irritability from low T were a bad combo. Looking back now he at the signs and symptoms he probably had low T for about 5 years, slowly sinking more and more. The amount of sex you have does not determine LD, the desire does.

One huge difference for us was we had been married over 12 years when it showed up along with the housing market crash (contractor, stress). He already knew what I needed and tried his darndest to take care of my needs even if at times it was at the minimum.

And as for the BJs proving anything, even prepubescent kids touch themselves, it simply feels good.



Faithful Wife said:


> She describes it as if he will "forget" all about PIV sex for as long as she doesn't bring it up. If she were to never bring up sex, he would probably default to his natural level of asking for a bj once a week. A bj by itself is a very passive act, even less energetic than masturbating in some cases. He seems to view PIV sex as a favor to her. These things are all consistent with an LD man, especially a very young one.
> 
> Don't forget the several times he has actually SAID to her "I just don't think about sex that much" or that he just doesn't get that into it. He isn't insulting her, he is describing his natural proclivity level.
> 
> When someone tells you who they are, believe them.


:iagree: Very consistent with LD!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Why are you assuming that I have ignored the evidence that does not fit or explore alternative theories? Just because YOU only know of ONE of my posts to Curious?


Because the definitions you apply are so amorphous as to be meaningless. The exceptions subsume the rule. This is clear thought out any number of your posts, not merely this one.

But I see no benefit for CW in trying to dissuade you here. You know what you know.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> It is only by her initiation.
> 
> ----
> 
> And as for the BJs proving anything, even prepubescent kids touch themselves, it simply feels good.


Here is where I don't understand. Because when things are going well (for him), I understand he does approach her for BJs quite regularly. So he does seek out sexual release in a very selfish manner. Based on his demonstrated lack of maturity in other areas, I don't see this as a part of him showing love.

That is not to say that she does not do her fair share of initiation as well, or that he does not side-step that initiation. Only that there seems to be actual sex drive, albeit one that has issues. 

I do like your idea that he get his T levels checked. If possible, a full physical would be ideal. Just to rule out anything like that.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TAG, in several posts to Curious (especially several months ago), I have first and foremost said to her that they need counseling and she needs to assertively tell him in front of a ST all of her issues, and she needs to hear all of his.

She has adamantly stated several times that they cannot go to counseling, and she cannot go herself.

Considering this, I have told her that it is very likely that if things go along as they are, she will end up bitter and disliking him and this could lead to a D or even an affair (by her).

I have said also that in order for their marriage to work for HER, HE will have to face all his issues, work with them, and he will have to struggle to up his sex drive to at least a point where he can keep hers satisfied...and that he'd have to do this by his own choice to do so because you cannot force someone else to change.

Again, she has claimed over and over that they cannot go to counseling.

At this point, all I'm hoping to get her to see is that when someone is truly LD, they can't/won't "just change". She is expecting change from him that will not come on its own or just by her asking him to change. She is also feeling he isn't that into her, but when someone is LD that is how they act. I'm simply trying to get her to see her reality as it is.

Why do you feel it is such an insult for me to say that her H is LD-gray-sexual? Like that is some kind of death sentence? Your reaction is exactly why people who are LD cannot talk more about their feelings. They are made to feel broken and shunned.

LD and gray-sexual people MAY have a hormonal issue...but they may NOT. When you have a person like Curious's husband who don't show signs of just being repressed or abuse or addiction or whatever...then you've typically got a naturally LD person. WHY is that so hard to hear? Who am I insulting? Being LD is not something that is harmful or shameful. It can also be worked with in a marriage, IF he wants to put in effort.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I do like your idea that he get his T levels checked. If possible, a full physical would be ideal. Just to rule out anything like that.


If I remember correctly, it was mentioned previously that their doctor was a family friend and she doubted he would want to discuss this with the doctor. ( correct me if I'm wrong). This is why I brought up labs you can get yourself, if they show a problem a full physical would be good. Also in decent size cities there are often doctors (especially urologists) that specialize in this. A couple could always take a weekend to a bigger city to get help. Doctors will often encourage HRT while I think giving lifestyle changes a try first is best (HRT might be needed but why start there). From what we've experienced and what we've read, exercise especially weightbearing exercise is key. Cutting back on sugar and stress help too, you can have cheat days on healthy eating but even if thin(as dh is) you can't over indulge on sweets. We are still working on it but we have seen big improvements.

As to what appears to be selfishness, not doubting there is some. But from what we experienced with my husband, I'm not sure a man with less life experience, less understanding of me, less security in our marriage and my complete love of him, would have dealt with it as well as he did. Some parts of it are emberassing. 

And it causes irritability, or as we call it snappiness. I watched my dear man so many times knowing he was agitated under the surface,working so hard to contain it and be gentle with everyone, nobody else saw it, but knowing him I could see it. I thought it was just all the stress of the last few years (which was probably our causeof low T) He was always careful to protect what we have no matter what, without that maturity to see the importance of that he could of looked like an ass. The 2 weeks we were on HRT and saw a night and day difference and slower but surely the changes I see now thru naturally raising of his levels, tells me this, it was the hormones (or lack thereof) talking.

I think the BJs are getting to much interpretation. A guy with LD still has desire just low. He did ask her recently if she even liked having sex with him. As obvious as it seems to us the answer to this seems to not be obvious to him. Maybe he got the impression that women did it for there men, so her advances was seen as her taking care of him, kind of liking me making food for my husband before he goes to work. If I remember correctly some of his BJs and quickies were asked for in the morning when T is highest, I know not all but some were. If ahe takes time he may have felt she would just be frustated. Other times sex may have not have even been on his radar. Or he may have seen if he could get things moving while she was in the shower and realized it wasn't going to happen. Yes the ways of an LD can seem very selfish, yes I have also felt upset by similar things, but thru a lot, lot, lot of discussions, I came to see selfishness was not there. Sometimes he was simply clueless other times he had no clue how to discuss it with me.

On many things his talk is all over the place which could mean he could be as confused as her.

All I am trying to say in this very long winded way is that, *Not all that looks like selfishness is necessarily selfishness, at least not for us.*.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Faithful wife~ Have you ever seen the book "Sex Starved Marriage"? Excellent book, read it on my nook. Written by a counselor who sees couples, some are both fine with once a month. Some aren't fine with every other day. She describes sex starved as not a number but instead a lack of need being met. One part is wriiten to the LD one part is written to the HD. Her first suggestion is make sure there are no medical reasons and then she goes on to help both sides understand the others side. She helps knock down the feelings of the other being selfish or unloving. Excellent read, she too sees no need to fix someone who is truly LD just a need to make things work for both of them.

Needed to add, I was thrilled when we discovered there was a cause and we didn't just need to meet in the middle. It really is great to have his drive back, and his moodiness gone.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Goodness gracious. A lot has been discussed.

I lean towards Faithful Wife. I think he just isn't very sexual. Sex doesn't seem to pop up on his radar unless it has been over a week and/or I bring it up.

He used to ask for blow jobs. (Not so much anymore until this last week.) But it wasn't a daily thing. Also it's not like blow jobs take any effort from him. 

You guys are correct that both of the local marriage councilors are close friends, one is my boss. We have discussed maybe going out of the area, but he shot the idea down. It has been a while since I've brought it up, so it is something to consider.

Family doctor is another close friend. Yikes. Husband absolutely refuses to talk to her about our issues. Heck he had odd bump on his arm a couple weeks ago and wouldn't even let me ask her about that.  

I have looked into the T testing that you send off that was talked about previously. I think that is a GREAT idea. I've asked husband to do it, but he won't. Still denying maybe, or maybe he is scared it will confirm that there is "something wrong with him." Who knows. I will continue to push it though. 

So yes. I don't think he is very sexual. But I think he is ALSO immature and selfish.

I can deal with him not being very sexual. BUT, he should love and care about me enough to try to meet my needs even if it isn't something that is on his mind. He should go out of his way to make an effort because he knows I need that emotional and physical bond. He needs to try. Which I think he is, especially more in the last couple months.

If it was the other way around and I didn't like sex, I would still make sure to make him feel loved and desired, and take care of his needs. I expect the same from him. 

That goes with anything, not just sex. I hate sports, and he LOVES them. Honestly watching sports makes me want to stab myself in the eye. But he plays weekly, and I still go to his games and watch him, and smile, and cheer him on, because I know it is important to him.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes, that book and the Sex Starved Wife are both really great resources. These books have been suggested to Curious as well.

I read it years ago and contributed to their forum back then, too. Being HD my whole life I have met many LD people in many forms, have also been in relationships with them. When I finally had to understand that my drive is just my drive, it is not the standard to use to compare other people's drive to...everything clicked. When I understood that people are different and these differences are normal BUT they can cause big problems in romantic/sexual relationships, things made much more sense in my own life.

I do not know why there is such resistance to the idea of a naturally LD/gray-sexual person.

I'm not talking about repression or CSA reasons for LD, those are real but are not "natural".

For some reason, naturally LD people are many times assumed to have deep secret problems they are not facing.

I have known and read about lots of cases like that...

...but there are these other cases like Curious's, where there is no base cause for LD that is apparent. When you've ruled out everything else, you have a naturally LD person.

When I found AVEN and read all about truly asexual people's experience and how they feel totally shunned and left out of society just because they don't crave partnered sex, my eyes were opened forever.

People need to be accepted as they are. Some people will NOT make the effort to raise their sexual level to meet their spouse and this is a situation that is so common, it should be faced with maturity and understanding.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Him refusing to hold my hand has nothing to do with being sexual, it's just him being immature. Things like that are not acceptable. I can understand him not thinking about it, so him not initiating snuggling or holding hands or whatever, but if I ask him for it he shouldn't refuse. It takes minimal effort, and it won't kill him.

Today while cleaning I accidentally came across a written list of the things he is currently praying for. At the bottom "Libido" was written. So he does know that it hurts me, and he is trying to do something about it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The book I mentioned The Sex Starved Marriage" would he read it with you. Have you shown him the list of symptoms for low T, as he encounters them it will help him see it could be a possibility. I wouldn't go say look your the poster child but I would ask him if he ever encounters this.

There is study that shows that couples who did this movie therapy outlined in the study fared as well as those that did marriage counseling. Basically you watch the movie then discuss the questions. We did one, it was kind of fun. I will look for the link of movies and questions, I know I have it around here.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> So yes. I don't think he is very sexual. But I think he is ALSO immature and selfish.


I think I have made my thoughts on this clear. But if this is your conclusion based on you interacting and being with him, it is counter productive to proceed otherwise. 

Do hold him accountable for his behavior. You meeting his needs when he refuses to meet yours will only end poorly for you.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Actually with dh when he was low T there were times it was just physically painful to touch or be touched, he did what he could but sometimes it was pat my hand, give a peck kiss and back off, that was really hard to deal with. Luckily he started talking as he saw my pain. He said he just feel so agitated and touching made it worse. If you've ever had the feelings of ants crawling under your skin that's it. Because I had that all thru one of my pregnancies I understood it. Strangely enough the only touch that didn't bother me during that pregnancy was sex 

Faithful Wife~  I knew books had been mentioned I just didn't remember all of them. I tried not to respond until I caught up on all the messages (took me several weeks) but I see I still missed and forgot some things, lol!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

the2ofus...thank you for sharing. Your sitch is a good example of how this sexual mismatch CAN be worked with. 

It requires effort and honesty.

Mr. Curious isn't there yet, but he is opening his eyes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I just ordered the book. I think he will be put off by the title, but I think he is to the point where he will read it with me. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I think I have made my thoughts on this clear. But if this is your conclusion based on you interacting and being with him, it is counter productive to proceed otherwise.
> 
> Do hold him accountable for his behavior. You meeting his needs when he refuses to meet yours will only end poorly for you.


I no longer meet his needs until mine are met first.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I do believe it is possible that he is low T. He has several of the signs.

Low libido.
Very minimal facial hair growth.
ALWAYS tired. Falls asleep at 8pm.
Irritability. 
Trouble gaining muscle mass.

We will never know unless he gets tested though. That little stinker.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Goodness gracious. A lot has been discussed.
> 
> I lean towards Faithful Wife. I think he just isn't very sexual. Sex doesn't seem to pop up on his radar unless it has been over a week and/or I bring it up.
> 
> He used to ask for blow jobs. (Not so much anymore until this last week.) But it wasn't a daily thing. Also it's not like blow jobs take any effort from him.
> 
> So yes. I don't think he is very sexual. But I think he is ALSO immature and selfish.
> 
> I can deal with him not being very sexual. BUT, he should love and care about me enough to try to meet my needs even if it isn't something that is on his mind. He should go out of his way to make an effort because he knows I need that emotional and physical bond. He needs to try. Which I think he is, especially more in the last couple months.
> 
> If it was the other way around and I didn't like sex, I would still make sure to make him feel loved and desired, and take care of his needs. I expect the same from him.
> 
> That goes with anything, not just sex. I hate sports, and he LOVES them. Honestly watching sports makes me want to stab myself in the eye. But he plays weekly, and I still go to his games and watch him, and smile, and cheer him on, because I know it is important to him.


Yup, a lot has been discussed. It has sort of become a guessing game to try to figure out what is going on with your husband, and try to assign labels to his condition. Without tests, and without talking to him first hand it is hard to determine what is going on with him (and sometimes his actions are just unbelievable or cruel enough that I just want to slap him).

But there is definitely a conciseness that he is selfish, and acts like a child. And there is an agreement that he is far to young to take this sort of attitude toward sex.

I agree with Faithful Wife that he will not change at the root, that he is what he is. His desire for sex will probably not change, and he will not be thinking of sex all the time no matter what happens or what a test revels.

However, I still believe that there is some hope as others have posted her about how their LD spouse learned about the importance of sex to them. Just like learning that watching sports is important to him, he has to learn about what is important to you. Since he appears very selfish, and acts like a child all to frequently, it will be difficult. But he still needs to learn that he made the commitment, and that he must show that he cares by learning and actively working on it all the time.

Somebody needs to sit down with him and let him know that Curious deserves the best husband. And since he chose that roll, he needs to work on it every day. And that includes making her feel desired, and cared for. And he need to stop being selfish with everything, and not hang things like money over her head. He needs to learn to fight his urge to play the video game, and start playing with her. He needs to stop spending the night at a friends house, and show his wife some passion for spending another night with her.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I do believe it is possible that he is low T. He has several of the signs.
> 
> Low libido.
> Very minimal facial hair growth.
> ALWAYS tired. Falls asleep at 8pm.
> Irritability.
> Trouble gaining muscle mass.
> 
> We will never know unless he gets tested though. That little stinker.


The hair on my husbands legs is almost completely missing below the knee, wish I had that problem instead!

You could see if he would start lifting weights with you, cut out the sugar, do some HIIT exercises, and cook some of the foods on the menu for increasing T. I think if he is low when it comes up a little he will want to be higher, seeing what your missing does wonders :lol:.

Movie date page
http://www.courses.rochester.edu/surveys/funk/
Article talking about it
http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/02/01/could-watching-a-movie-save-your-marriage/65314.html

And as to the guy saying his interest won't come up, I wouldn't bet on that. We did learn how to deal with it when we had to but he often outpaces me now. If it were shown that he is low T and those levels were brought up my husband is pretty sure you would see interest  You say he needs to show passion for her, what if it's not there. Fake passion is just that fake, he can not show what he does not have. He can show love and concern though!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> You could see if he would start lifting weights with you, cut out the sugar, do some HIIT exercises, and cook some of the foods on the menu for increasing T. I think if he is low when it comes up a little he will want to be higher, seeing what your missing does wonders :lol:.
> 
> Movie date page
> www.Couples-Research.com - Ronald D. Rogge
> 
> And as to the guy saying his interest won't come up, I wouldn't bet on that. We did learn how to deal with it when we had to but he often outpaces me now. If it were shown that he is low T and those levels were brought up my husband is pretty sure you would see interest  You say he needs to show passion for her, what if it's not there. Fake passion is just that fake, he can not show what he does not have. He can show love and concern!



He lifts weights daily, and eats really healthy. Not much sugar in his diet.

I've wanted to experiment by having him take some of those T boosters from Walmart but he wouldn't do it. He just said, "Your just trying to get me to have more sex with you."


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He lifts weights daily, and eats really healthy. Not much sugar in his diet.
> 
> I've wanted to experiment by having him take some of those T boosters from Walmart but he wouldn't do it. He just said, "Your just trying to get me to have more sex with you."


Ha ha ha. Oh, you are so tricky, trying to get your husband to have more sex with you. :rofl:


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He lifts weights daily, and eats really healthy. Not much sugar in his diet.
> 
> I've wanted to experiment by having him take some of those T boosters from Walmart but he wouldn't do it. He just said, "Your just trying to get me to have more sex with you."


That's how most truly LD people feel. They feel they are "hounded" for sex and no matter how much sex they "give" it is never enough for the HD.

However, perhaps after reading the Sex Starved Marriage together he will understand why it is so important...(ie: because remaining sexless can lead to divorce).


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You could rip off the front cover and title page so he doesn't see the name!  I talked a lot about the book before my husband ever knew the name. The book actually helped me so much before he even read it.

Does your husband get enough zinc and magnesium? Those seem to be the 2 big things mentioned with the most science behind them, Omega 3s like salmon are also mentioned, and no soy (estrogenic). 

Suprisingly enough libido was not what made us look at testosterone levels, we were searching something else and came across the symptoms list and checked off a lot of them. So my husband asked me to find a doc to check it out and from there we found out his numbers at 43 are at the low end for a 90 yr old man! Before we even talked to the doctor we had looked at several lists of the risks of low T, that was one of the things that prompted him to get checked.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Same old crap. 

I want sex so bad. But after being rejected, and not touching for days when he finally decides he's ready to have sex I often am so turned off I am just not in the mood and instead of enjoying it I resent it.

How do I get past these feelings? I don't remember the last time we had sex where I was genuinely enthusiastic, and/or really excited about it. 

A lot of time I just can't get into it. I don't feel that passion and I don't feel attracted to him. Then the sex is bad, and leaves me less satisfied than before. Then the cycle starts all over again. 

I'll think about sex all day, and be so excited when I get home. Then he will turn me down, or do something that puts me off and the whole mood is killed. Then if he decides later we can have sex the feeling is already past. This happens almost 100% of the time we have sex.


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, When I got to this point, I started looking into myself. The frustration at realising one cannot control another person, yet feeling all these feelings because your spouse won't or can't behave in a way that you want. 

Acceptance of the situation helps with the resentment and the feelings. It doesn't solve the problem. But it's how one lives with more peace. Detachment. Less dependence on him for meeting your needs, or looking at sex differently. Accepting he is doing what he knows how, now. Today. 

It's good to seek help for his problem. Make suggestions, see if he will talk to someone or read some books. 

It's also good to be grateful for the signs that he is wanting to try. Focus on that instead of what you are not getting.
Peace.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have been better detaching and "turning down the temperature." But it is still hard to not let it bother me. 

Yesterday for example, I'm still sticking to my "no asking for sex" motto. But I was feeling distant, and I just want to snuggle up and make out and relax with him. It was breaking my avoiding all intimacy, but I was really lonely. All day I thought about how I couldn't wait to get home, and how I was going to smother him in kisses when he walked through the door. 

I had dinner cooked and waiting, I took a shower just in case it led somewhere so he wouldn't have the excuse of me going to clean up killing the mood. 

When he got home I smiled at him and asked if he wanted to go snuggle. He said, "maybe later after xyz." So I backed off then after he finished, I was like "okay lets go snuggle now." Again he said, "maybe after I shower." So I waited for him to get done, and when he got out I took his hand and tried to kiss him and he pulled away from me. At this point I stopped trying to chase him and just walked away. He sat down on the couch and I went and sat on a different chair. He was upset that I didn't want to sit next to him. 

We had friends over, and I thought maybe after they left that he would finally have time for me. But the second they left, he sat down and started playing video games. His "later" never came. I went to bed without a word. Horny & lonely. We still haven't kissed or touched since we last had sex on Tuesday.

It's the little stuff he says that seems to rub salt in the wounds.

When he had gotten out of the shower he flexed his muscles and was posing in the mirror. He made a comment about how good he was looking since he has lost weight and had been really working out. He said, "This body is all for your enjoyment, baby." All I could think was, "too bad I never get to see it or touch it." It wasn't meant to hurt my feeling, but it did.


When our friends were over, we played a silly little card game called bang. There was a lot of dialog exchanged that was along the lines of, "Ha. I just banged you" or "I want to bang both of you." etc. 

It was funny, but I kind of bothered me. Husband would say something like, "You'd bang anybody" or "Man, I'm banging you a lot." And flash me a little grin. Maybe it was because I had the rejection fresh on my mind, but him joking about sex stung.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> When he had gotten out of the shower he flexed his muscles and was posing in the mirror. He made a comment about how good he was looking since he has lost weight and had been really working out. He said, "This body is all for your enjoyment, baby." All I could think was, "too bad I never get to see it or touch it." It wasn't meant to hurt my feeling, but it did.


Next time say it. He is being a tease. Call him on it.



> It was funny, but I kind of bothered me. Husband would say something like, "You'd bang anybody" or "Man, I'm banging you a lot." And flash me a little grin. Maybe it was because I had the rejection fresh on my mind, but him joking about sex stung.


He knows what he is doing.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry, curious. 

I don't know that he has any frame of reference for your feelings. He probably rests easy because 100% of his needs are being met and he doesn't feel rejected and longing and sexually suffocated. 

I don't understand how he can continually forget about your plight with as many times as you've raised it, but I do believe he has no empathy because he's never felt what you feel on a daily basis.


----------



## yours4ever

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

oh my, sounds like he is either a person who avoids intimacy (like my mum) or a person who is passive agressive.
.
If he avoids intimacy.. it could be because of his attachment style developed since young. Some people just not comfortable or doesnt know how to form close relationship.
.
If he is doing this as a passive aggresive action, it means he has anger unresolved... what could be the reasons for being angry?
.
i might have gave you some wrong advice.. if i did, i apologize.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have been better detaching and "turning down the temperature." But it is still hard to not let it bother me.
> 
> Yesterday for example, I'm still sticking to my "no asking for sex" motto. But I was feeling distant, and I just want to snuggle up and make out and relax with him. It was breaking my avoiding all intimacy, but I was really lonely. All day I thought about how I couldn't wait to get home, and how I was going to smother him in kisses when he walked through the door.
> 
> I had dinner cooked and waiting, I took a shower just in case it led somewhere so he wouldn't have the excuse of me going to clean up killing the mood.
> 
> When he got home I smiled at him and asked if he wanted to go snuggle. He said, "maybe later after xyz." So I backed off then after he finished, I was like "okay lets go snuggle now." Again he said, "maybe after I shower." So I waited for him to get done, and when he got out I took his hand and tried to kiss him and he pulled away from me. At this point I stopped trying to chase him and just walked away. He sat down on the couch and I went and sat on a different chair. He was upset that I didn't want to sit next to him.
> 
> We had friends over, and I thought maybe after they left that he would finally have time for me. But the second they left, he sat down and started playing video games.  His "later" never came. I went to bed without a word. Horny & lonely. We still haven't kissed or touched since we last had sex on Tuesday.
> 
> It's the little stuff he says that seems to rub salt in the wounds.
> 
> When he had gotten out of the shower he flexed his muscles and was posing in the mirror. He made a comment about how good he was looking since he has lost weight and had been really working out. He said, "This body is all for your enjoyment, baby." All I could think was, "too bad I never get to see it or touch it." It wasn't meant to hurt my feeling, but it did.
> 
> 
> When our friends were over, we played a silly little card game called bang. There was a lot of dialog exchanged that was along the lines of, "Ha. I just banged you" or "I want to bang both of you." etc.
> 
> It was funny, but I kind of bothered me. Husband would say something like, "You'd bang anybody" or "Man, I'm banging you a lot." And flash me a little grin. Maybe it was because I had the rejection fresh on my mind, but him joking about sex stung.


Ok, I am missing something here. After all this, and your friends went home, were you horny? After all that talk (and being teased to death). Were you not horny anymore? Was he? I don't understand why it did not end up with sex at the end of the evening?

Also, have you checked to see when you are the most horny? That is are you a morning / afternoon person and evening the feelings start to wear down a little?

The cruel tease was him telling you that his body is for your enjoyment, but prohibiting you from getting access to it. Ouch and double ouch. Like taking somebody on a strict diet to a bakery just to watch them in discomfort.

Seems to me that if you want to break the cycle you are going to have to really take a risk. Try being bold, when he comes home and you are horny, let you horny side greet him with "I want sex NOW!" and then say "Right now!" and "Not after you shower, not after dinner, but NOW!"

Don't let he say something like "you are always horny" (because it is not really true anyhow). If he starts giving you excuses, be more bold and say "I am horny right NOW and I need sex right NOW. And I don't want to take NO for an answer. I want sex right NOW."

See what happens. Either you are going to be really rejected and feel real crappy, or he will get your point and go for it. So it is risky on your part. But if neither of you do something to change, the cycle is going to continue. Do you want that? Are you comfortable with the cycle?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Ok, I am missing something here. After all this, and your friends went home, were you horny? After all that talk (and being teased to death). Were you not horny anymore? Was he? I don't understand why it did not end up with sex at the end of the evening?
> 
> Also, have you checked to see when you are the most horny? That is are you a morning / afternoon person and evening the feelings start to wear down a little?
> 
> The cruel tease was him telling you that his body is for your enjoyment, but prohibiting you from getting access to it. Ouch and double ouch. Like taking somebody on a strict diet to a bakery just to watch them in discomfort.
> 
> Seems to me that if you want to break the cycle you are going to have to really take a risk. Try being bold, when he comes home and you are horny, let you horny side greet him with "I want sex NOW!" and then say "Right now!" and "Not after you shower, not after dinner, but NOW!"
> 
> Don't let he say something like "you are always horny" (because it is not really true anyhow). If he starts giving you excuses, be more bold and say "I am horny right NOW and I need sex right NOW. And I don't want to take NO for an answer. I want sex right NOW."
> 
> See what happens. Either you are going to be really rejected and feel real crappy, or he will get your point and go for it. So it is risky on your part. But if neither of you do something to change, the cycle is going to continue. Do you want that? Are you comfortable with the cycle?



I was horny, he was not. It did not end in sex because he rejected me and wanted to go for a run, eat dinner, take a shower, piddle outside, watch tv, play video games and just about anything else besides have sex with me.

I am ALWAYS horny. But I am not always in the mood to have sex with him. After he turns me down a couple times or makes some jokes at my expense it is a turn off. But that doesn't mean I'm not still horny. I wanted to go take care of my own needs last night. But our bathroom doesn't have a door and he would have caught me, and I didn't want to deal with it. 

I've tried the bold approach. Just like yesterday I grabbed his arm and tried to pull him to the bedroom and told him I wanted to go make out but he just pushed me off. 

There is always an excuse.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I'm sorry, curious.
> 
> I don't understand how he can continually forget about your plight with as many times as you've raised it, but I do believe he has no empathy because he's never felt what you feel on a daily basis.


No kidding. We just had a big blow up a couple days ago with tears, and a lot of promises. And yet not one word of it has he kept. Sex hasn't been mentioned one single time since, and I have no doubt that the conversation would never even come up again unless I bring it up. 

How can he forget so fast? :scratchhead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He has still been leaving me notes every single morning. They are sweet and nice. But they say things like, "can't wait until I get home and I will give you a back rub" or "we can spend the entire evening snuggling."

Nice words. But no follow through. Just more empty promises that make me mad.


----------



## Truly Abby

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No kidding. We just had a big blow up a couple days ago with tears, and a lot of promises. And yet not one word of it has he kept. Sex hasn't been mentioned one single time since, and I have no doubt that the conversation would never even come up again unless I bring it up.
> 
> How can he forget so fast? :scratchhead:


You don't seriously think he forgot, do you?


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I wanted to go take care of my own needs last night. But our bathroom doesn't have a door and he would have caught me, and I didn't want to deal with it.


I think you should have and he shouldn't have to "catch you" because you tell him. Heck, if he's not going to F you at least ask him to join you and provide some eye candy for you.


----------



## Truly Abby

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is reminding me of puppet strings.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He has still been leaving me notes every single morning. They are sweet and nice. But they say things like, "can't wait until I get home and I will give you a back rub" or "we can spend the entire evening snuggling."
> 
> Nice words. But no follow through. Just more empty promises that make me mad.


Ok, now I think I understand it more. He does all this promising and teasing and fails to follow through. On top of that everything else has priority over you and your pleasure. That includes video games, watching paint dry, checking to see if he needs a hair cut, etc. The promises, the teasing, and the ultimate low priority really hurts and cuts deep. I get that one now.

Seems like the only thing that is going to break this cycle is for him to realize that his marriage is on the line.

I would suggest you write him another note. Tell him that you enjoy his notes, but you gotta have him follow through with enthusiasm. Tell him that you feel teased. Tell him that you need him to examine his priorities, because you feel pretty low on his priority list. Tell him that you feel teased, disappointed, frustrated and angry at him for doing this to you.

You may need to stir him up with a note from time to time just to remind him that he is getting off track frequently.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Trudy Abby said:


> You don't seriously think he forgot, do you?


No. I think he would rather just pretend everything is great and avoid any confrontation.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> I think you should have and he shouldn't have to "catch you" because you tell him. Heck, if he's not going to F you at least ask him to join you and provide some eye candy for you.


I don't even want to imagine the headache this would cause.

He would demand I stop, and I don't think it is any of his business what I do in private.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Ok, now I think I understand it more. He does all this promising and teasing and fails to follow through. On top of that everything else has priority over you and your pleasure. That includes video games, *watching paint dry, checking to see if he needs a hair cut*, etc. The promises, the teasing, and the ultimate low priority really hurts and cuts deep. I get that one now.


:lol::lol: This made me laugh out loud. So sad, yet so true. 



> Seems like the only thing that is going to break this cycle is for him to realize that his marriage is on the line.
> 
> I would suggest you write him another note. Tell him that you enjoy his notes, but you gotta have him follow through with enthusiasm. Tell him that you feel teased. Tell him that you need him to examine his priorities, because you feel pretty low on his priority list. Tell him that you feel teased, disappointed, frustrated and angry at him for doing this to you.
> 
> You may need to stir him up with a note from time to time just to remind him that he is getting off track frequently.


This is a good idea. But I've tried it more times than I can count. He smiles and tells me how I am a priority, how he doesn't mean to hurt my feelings, how he loves sex, blah blah blah.

He is a very smooth talker.


----------



## Convection

TheCuriousWife said:


> ...and I don't think it is any of his business what I do in private.


Wow, deja vu alert. If I were not on my phone, I would link to some posts by Lionelhutz, from about two years ago. He used the same words, almost verbatim, on the same issue. It's depressing reading, CW, but instructive. I don't think you want to face in ten years - rejection, depression, complete emotional numbness - that Lionel did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I was horny, he was not. It did not end in sex because he rejected me and wanted to go for a run, eat dinner, take a shower, piddle outside, watch tv, play video games and just about anything else besides have sex with me.
> 
> I am ALWAYS horny. But I am not always in the mood to have sex with him. After he turns me down a couple times or makes some jokes at my expense it is a turn off. But that doesn't mean I'm not still horny. *I wanted to go take care of my own needs last night. But our bathroom doesn't have a door and he would have caught me*, and I didn't want to deal with it.
> 
> I've tried the bold approach. Just like yesterday I grabbed his arm and tried to pull him to the bedroom and told him I wanted to go make out but he just pushed me off.
> 
> There is always an excuse.


So what? Let him catch you. Tell him if he's unable to take care of you, you will do it yourself. You've posted before that he forbids you to buy a vibe? Again, so the hell what? Buy one and USE IT!! If he has a problem with it TOUGH SH1T!! 

I'm proud of you for making him step it up around the house, but that's not really what you want. I have a feeling if he was enthusiastically giving it to you every day or two you'd do all the chores with a big a$$ smile on your face. So him chipping in there is not going to make you happy. Not that he shouldn't help, but it's not what you really want.

YOUR H MAKES ME SO MAD!!!!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I wanted to go take care of my own needs last night. But our bathroom doesn't have a door and he would have caught me, and I didn't want to deal with it.


You should have masturbated and let him catch you. Then you could say "all this body is for your enjoyment baby", then if he tries to join in or stays to watch, say "for your enjoyment, not for touching or looking at, get out."

:lol:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> So what? Let him catch you. Tell him if he's unable to take care of you, you will do it yourself. You've posted before that he forbids you to buy a vibe? Again, so the hell what? Buy one and USE IT!! If he has a problem with it TOUGH SH1T!!
> 
> I'm proud of you for making him step it up around the house, but that's not really what you want. I have a feeling if he was enthusiastically giving it to you every day or two you'd do all the chores with a big a$$ smile on your face. So him chipping in there is not going to make you happy. Not that he shouldn't help, but it's not what you really want.
> 
> YOUR H MAKES ME SO MAD!!!!


I have been seriously considering buying a vibe and using. At least then he would know I am serious that if he isn't going to take care of my needs I will take care of my own.  Not that I don't already.

Your right. If I was getting enthusiastic sex everyday or two I'd be walking with a spring in my step and a whistle while I did anything he asked. 

He makes me mad too.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> You should have masturbated and let him catch you. Then you could say "all this body is for your enjoyment baby", then if he tries to join in or stays to watch, say "for your enjoyment, not for touching or looking at, get out."
> 
> :lol:


:rofl: :rofl:


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't even want to imagine the headache this would cause.
> 
> He would demand I stop, and I don't think it is any of his business what I do in private.


Tell him, "I'm horny. If you can't do anything about it, I will." He has no rights to demand you stop. And you don't have to listen to him if he does. Tell him to STFU it's not open for discussion.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think I am a little shy to let him see me taking care of business.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have been seriously considering buying a vibe


Get a really loud one.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> Get a really loud one.


Any suggestions?  I'm window shopping now.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't even want to imagine the headache this would cause.
> 
> *He would demand I stop*, and I don't think it is any of his business what I do in private.


Oh my, he would demand you stop like telling a child to stop touching down there? Are you the child? No, you are an adult. 

He turned you down for sex in favor of video games. Why don't you turn it around and demand he stop the video game. Naughty naughty on his part, playing video games. Why is it wrong for you to play with you game?


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm serious. At this point I would be getting pretty insulting with him. I'd be phrasing every thing I said in such a way as to imply he isn't a man. It probably would cause more harm than good, in fact I'm sure it would, but I don't think I could help it. 

I'm not advising this course of action. It's just me and I'm getting crabby in my old age.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Any suggestions?  I'm window shopping now.


A rule of thumb is the bigger batteries the bigger the noise, look for C or bigger. Or go nuclear with a plug in Magic Wand.

Have fun shopping


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't know, I have a non-legitimate "shy girl" vibrator that I got at Walgreens. Come on now, nobody really has sore muscles, those things have been code for getting off for decades! 

I'm sure you know the vibrator was developed by a physician. Women used to go to the doctor to be treated for their "hysteria" and that was the doctor getting them off. Finally the doctor said - man, who has time for this - getting women off all day long, work, work, work, and he invented the vibrator. 

Drunk history by Miss Scarlett. (I'm not actually drunk)


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> A rule of thumb is the bigger batteries the bigger the noise, look for C or bigger. Or go nuclear with a plug in Magic Wand.
> 
> Have fun shopping


Just wait till you see the one that needs its own diesel generator...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Of course there is the sybian .. I understand it rivals the sound of a jet plane taking off. So that would get his attention when the floor shakes and the sound is so loud he can't think. As a bonus you will not be able the hear him tell you to stop until you are done.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No kidding. We just had a big blow up a couple days ago with tears, and a lot of promises. And yet not one word of it has he kept. Sex hasn't been mentioned one single time since, and I have no doubt that the conversation would never even come up again unless I bring it up.
> 
> How can he forget so fast? :scratchhead:





TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't even want to imagine the headache this would cause.
> 
> He would demand I stop, and I don't think it is any of his business what I do in private.


It would let him no you are serious. If he says, "I told you I didn't want you having one" you can always reply, "you also told me you would take care of my need, seeings how that didnt happen I figure you not wanting me to have a vibrator didn't apply either", all with a lovely smile. He has to give somewhere!

About getting T checked you could ask him if he really wants to keep going around and around on this (I would get the test first). Ask him if spitting in a little container or getting a small drop of blood is really harder than having these arguements every few days. He may try to say its your fault, id ignore that comment and simply say you could help us get an answer.



TheCuriousWife said:


> :lol::lol: This made me laugh out loud. So sad, yet so true.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a good idea. But I've tried it more times than I can count. He smiles and tells me how I am a priority, how he doesn't mean to hurt my feelings, how he loves sex, blah blah blah.
> 
> He is a very smooth talker.


I always tell my kids whether they meant to or not if the other person has hurt feelings you still have a broken relationship.



I Don't Know said:


> So what? Let him catch you. Tell him if he's unable to take care of you, you will do it yourself. You've posted before that he forbids you to buy a vibe? Again, so the hell what? Buy one and USE IT!! If he has a problem with it TOUGH SH1T!!
> 
> I'm proud of you for making him step it up around the house, but that's not really what you want. I have a feeling if he was enthusiastically giving it to you every day or two you'd do all the chores with a big a$$ smile on your face. So him chipping in there is not going to make you happy. Not that he shouldn't help, but it's not what you really want.
> 
> YOUR H MAKES ME SO MAD!!!!


If your anything like me that one thing makes everything else good.



MissScarlett said:


> I don't know, I have a non-legitimate "shy girl" vibrator that I got at Walgreens. Come on now, nobody really has sore muscles, those things have been code for getting off for decades.


Go walgreens! Is it a personal massager?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh yeah, just a muscle massager. The one I have is made by Clairol, I think.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Walgreens also carries ones by Trojan, Durex, and a few others. My husband took me to Walgreens to get my first one, I insisted we get a birthday card as well, as if they would think it was a gift or something . He picked it out cause he was the one studying them while I looked around, shyly. It is still one of my favorites. It's the durex allure, he made a good choice. 

Have you seen this Honey I got some new lipstick. Sorry I forgot it has to be at least C batteries. How about a 2 cycle engine?


----------



## deejov

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Cw,
You wanted to smother him with kisses when he came in the door.
Awesome!

Instead.. you asked him more than once if he wanted to snuggle, you waited around for him to reject you.

I know this sounds horribly simple... but if you are an affectionate person, you just GIVE it. You walk up and give him kisses and let him know you are glad to see him. That's it. Who cares what HE thinks about it, or how he responds.

The ability to do this turns the neediness to giving. You don't expect anything in return. 

And that's how you teach another person the same concept.

By just doing it yourself. 
Stop asking. Just do it if you feel like it. Without expecting anything in return.

How do you expect him to learn how to do this if you don't do it yourself?


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's also how to be assertive.

You're going to have to lead, Curious. And if you do, everything you are hoping for might happen.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You guys are hilarious about the vibrators. 



deejov said:


> Cw,
> You wanted to smother him with kisses when he came in the door.
> Awesome!
> 
> Instead.. you asked him more than once if he wanted to snuggle, you waited around for him to reject you.
> 
> I know this sounds horribly simple... but if you are an affectionate person, you just GIVE it. You walk up and give him kisses and let him know you are glad to see him. That's it. Who cares what HE thinks about it, or how he responds.
> 
> The ability to do this turns the neediness to giving. You don't expect anything in return.
> 
> And that's how you teach another person the same concept.
> 
> By just doing it yourself.
> Stop asking. Just do it if you feel like it. Without expecting anything in return.
> 
> How do you expect him to learn how to do this if you don't do it yourself?


Maybe I left that part out. :scratchhead:

I DID try to kiss him when he came through the door. But he pushed me away, and turned away from me and made some excuse about after he did such and such. Then I asked, just so he couldn't use the excuse later that he didn't know what I wanted because I didn't say anything.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wait a minute here! 

You limit your masturbation so that he doesn't get upset with you?

I swear CW, I'm gonna hafta take away your vagina!

1. No more BJ's at all ever until you are so saturated in sexual contentment you couldn't possibly want more sex for a month! No excuses!

2. Get whatever toys float your boat, vibes and insertables. Take care of yourself, first and last! Masturbate frequently. This is YOUR body and these are YOUR needs. He doesn't get a say in this at all!

3. It's going to have to get much worse before it gets better. You can't nice this selfish immature man into doing the hard work to change so that he can meet your needs. No more asking for kisses or cuddles! No more initiating sex at all! Back way the hell off and stay off until you see him making sincere meaningful changes. You are totally enabling him!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I swear CW, I'm gonna hafta take away your vagina!


Yikes, that is worse than being banned.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am backing off. But the only thing I've found is that if I don't initiate or ask for sex, snuggling, kisses, I don't get them.  

Day 4 and counting here for no sex. And it hasn't been mentioned once. He doesn't seem to notice. I don't want to go another week and a half again. The resentment is already building.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't limit my masturbation. I take care of myself quite frequently. It's the only way I'm surviving. But I do try to avoid doing it when he is home, although sometimes I can't stand it and I do it anyway.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well CW, it sounds like it's time for you to get out of your marriage. 
Sad to say it but it's true
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am backing off. But the only thing I've found is that if I don't initiate or ask for sex, snuggling, kisses, I don't get them.
> 
> Day 4 and counting here for no sex. And it hasn't been mentioned once. He doesn't seem to notice. I don't want to go another week and a half again. *The resentment is already building*.


And keep letting it build...to the point where you wake up and realize that you can do so much better than this.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't limit my masturbation. I take care of myself quite frequently. It's the only way I'm surviving. But I do try to avoid doing it when he is home, although sometimes I can't stand it and I do it anyway.


On the contrary Curious. You *Do limit masturbation!* You don't masturbate when H is around and might catch you.

Logically you should:

1) Feel free to masturbate when he turns you down. After all, if you want ice cream, and he does not, then it would be ok for you to have ice cream *alone*. So if he does not want sex with you, then you should be able to have sex on your own.

2) Several books have indicated that couples that feel comfortable with one another will masturbate regardless of the fear of being caught. In other words, these books say that hiding masturbation from your spouse spoils the intimacy bond that married couples are suppose to have.

Easier said than done because masturbation leaves me feeling very vulnerable. In any event, try to feel free to masturbate when he turns you down, and don't worry about being caught. And if he gets mad at you, well tell him that you were horny, and that you gave him every opportunity to make it a twosome. And then let him know it is not too late to join in.


----------



## yours4ever

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you tried telling him this?

"husband, you have no obligation to have sex with me. Just hug me? I need a hug."

"I don't want sex. Do you love me?" if he answered yes, ask for a peck. "kiss me "

Have you tried these?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am backing off. But the only thing I've found is that if I don't initiate or ask for sex, snuggling, kisses, I don't get them.
> 
> Day 4 and counting here for no sex. And it hasn't been mentioned once. He doesn't seem to notice. I don't want to go another week and a half again. The resentment is already building.


I think it's good to give him some time. You said yourself that he added "libido" to a list of things he wanted to accomplish or something, so obviously he's aware that this is an issue, which I'm sure doesn't make him feel good about his masculinity. You should try not to resent him, it's not like he can magically force himself to have a higher sex drive much the same way you're incapable of forcing yourself to have a lower sex drive. You guys had your talk, which went well. So don't start the resentful pattern again. Do something different this time. Try handling it in a new way and see how it works out. Just experiment with it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> I think it's good to give him some time. You said yourself that he added "libido" to a list of things he wanted to accomplish or something, so obviously he's aware that this is an issue, which I'm sure doesn't make him feel good about his masculinity. You should try not to resent him, it's not like he can magically force himself to have a higher sex drive much the same way you're incapable of forcing yourself to have a lower sex drive. You guys had your talk, which went well. So don't start the resentful pattern again. Do something different this time. Try handling it in a new way and see how it works out. Just experiment with it.


This is a good idea. But how? It's so hard not to be upset and hurt.

How do I get excited about sex? How do I not get resentful?

I am so put out that I don't even want to be too close to him. Last night he tried to snuggle up against me while sleeping and I told him I was crowded. This morning while I was half asleep and he tried to touch me I told him to leave me alone. I know it's not right, and I didn't mean to. But I honestly want to cringe away from him when he touches me. 

The thought of sex right now doesn't bring warm happy feelings, just dread. Eventually he is going to get horny and ask, and I don't want to just continue laying there like a dead fish or try to pretend to be enthusiastic. But I just can't get myself to be excited about it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Also at this point I'm not even sure what not initiating is accomplishing. 

I find I get more and more upset and detached the longer I go without sex.

And he is probably enjoying the fact that I am not bugging him. This is what he wants. How is this suppose to teach him anything? He is probably loving it. 

Ho hum. I wish I knew all the answers.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW, have you two ever "scheduled" sex? Perhaps you and he could compromise on specific days/times during the week - at least for a while. I know scheduling would take a lot of the fun out of sex, but it works for some people as it is a compromise on both sides. Just a suggestion.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We had an unwritten sex schedule of every other day which is what we agreed to. But unless i bring it up, or push it, it doesn't happen. 

As proved by the fact that we've had sex an average of once a week for the past several weeks since I slowed down initiating.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



yours4ever said:


> Have you tried telling him this?
> 
> "husband, you have no obligation to have sex with me. Just hug me? I need a hug."
> 
> "I don't want sex. Do you love me?" if he answered yes, ask for a peck. "kiss me "
> 
> Have you tried these?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But she does want sex. She could say I'm fine if we don't have sex, I already took care of myself.

If he is grey-sexual or low T holding out till he comes to you is just gonna make you frustrated. Believe me it will just make you more pissed off. You need to talk and make a compromise. He needs to know exactly where you stand. I hear so many people afraid to rock the boat, well if your headed towards a big rock it would be better to rock the boat and take a turn then smash into the rock. He needs to know your patience is wearing thin, he needs to give you a reason to hang in there, a reason to be patient. Finding out my husband could have low T changed everything for me, getting confirmation of low T made such a huge difference in me being patient, in me helping him. 

On pg 117,118 of The Hardness Factor there is a story of a couple where the man starts on Androgel HRT for his low T. Here is a few quotes from the story that stuck out to me. "If you had asked me four weeks ago if I thought having sex once every month or so was okay, I certainly wouldn't have disagreed with you," AJ said "I didn't miss the sex at all. It's like when you lose your appetite. I never really missed something that I never missed, if you know what I mean. Not having sex became like a habit for me. However, the way I feel now, that wouldn't seem all right for me. And especially not for Barbara."

A later part of this story AJ says "I didn't love my wife any differently before. It never changed how much I enjoyed being with you, the fun, and the excitement. I've always been crazy about you. It's just that other things were on my mind. The sexual part of me just slowly slipped away and I wasn't aware of it."

Later when they are talking about his sex drive returning he says he doesn't know how he could have forgotten this.

When I read this to my husband he said he totally agrees with AJ. He never lost interest in me, he just had no (or very little) sexual appetite. My husband had expressed this to me many times, sometimes its just hard to believe when he's not interested.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We had an unwritten sex schedule of every other day which is what we agreed to. But unless i bring it up, or push it, it doesn't happen.
> 
> As proved by the fact that we've had sex an average of once a week for the past several weeks since I slowed down initiating.


Sorry but if he has low libido you will have to bring it up. I know I felt like if he loves me and knows it's important to me he should remember and bring it up. But its just not on their radar, it's really not. It's not purposeful neglect. If you couple it with the negative feelings he's having wondering what's wrong with himself his brain won't bring it up. It's up to you.

Remember many of us responding are high drive, never walking in the low drive shoes. Many people responding haven't even tried to understand the other side. If you want your marriage to make it to the other side you have to try to understand him. You can't just assume he is thinking like you, you have to work hard to relate. It's not an easy road but for me it was oh so worth it. I could have destroyed our marriage and intimacy, glad I didn't.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Sorry but if he has low libido you will have to bring it up. I know I felt like if he loves me and knows it's important to me he should remember and bring it up. But its just not on their radar, it's really not. It's not purposeful neglect. If you couple it with the negative feelings he's having wondering what's wrong with himself his brain won't bring it up. It's up to you.
> 
> Remember many of us responding are high drive, never walking in the low drive shows. Many people responding haven't even tried to understand the other side. If you want your marriage to make it to the other side you have to try to understand him. You can't just assume he is thinking like you, you have to work hard to relate. It's not an easy road but for me it was oh so worth it. I could have destroyed our marriage and intimacy, glad I didn't.



It wouldn't be so bad if I just had to remind him.

But just reminding him isn't enough. I have to ask, plead, bribe, to get him to have sex with me. It doesn't make me feel good. I don't want to have to beg my husband to have sex with me. Every time I ask and he says no, or gives me "that look" I think a little part of me dies. 

Since I stopped initiating, I'm getting resentful, and I don't get any intimacy. But at least I don't have that constant rejection. I'm wondering at this point if I should just face the facts, and admit I will never be satisfied with our intimate life.

Maybe it's better to just stop trying. Just stop feeling sorry for myself and deal with it. I think room mates with no expectation of sex would be better than constantly hoping today will finally be the day, or hoping things will change. 

If I expect less of him, then I don't get as much disappointment. I'm tired of being in this limbo.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm so sorry TCW................Hugs


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> If I expect less of him, then I don't get as much disappointment. I'm tired of being in this limbo.


(((((Hugs))))))

Do what you need to to protect your heart! Things may come around some, you don't want to have become completely hardened to him if they do. 

I wonder if you could just suggest taking the next month off of any sex, just enjoy each other. The idea comes from a book called Sex Detox, for many couples it starts things afresh. For you it would take the guessing out for a month. Which might help you see things more clearly as they are instead of thru this lense of rejection that we create when in these situations. You can see the merits or lack thereof of this relationship without the rejection. It also may take the pressure off him so he can see things clearly.

Hopefully the sex starved marriage book will help as well. Maybe read that yourself while on a sex fast.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I remember telling my husband that I wish I didn't like sex, I just wanted the desire to go away then I could be happy!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I remember telling my husband that I wish I didn't like sex, I just wanted the desire to go away then I could be happy!


If I could make it go away I would. It would solve all our problems because we get along great, and are great partners with everything except sex. 

Sex has really screwed up our relationship. I miss the days before sex when we were two peas in a pod. 

Maybe if I tell myself enough, sex isn't that great, and we go long enough without I will detach and get used to it. I wish I didn't know what I was missing.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Maybe if I tell myself enough, sex isn't that great, and we go long enough without I will detach and get used to it.


Detach from what? Wanting sex or from him? It's likely going to be him and that will cause all sorts of problems.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> Detach from what? Wanting sex or from him? It's likely going to be him and that will cause all sorts of problems.


Your right. I'd love to just detach from sex. But I don't know if it's possible to detach from sex without detaching from him as well.

Love and sex are linked to me. I'm not sure I can have one without the other. :scratchhead: 

Everything has to be so complicated.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> If I could make it go away I would. It would solve all our problems because we get along great, and are great partners with everything except sex.
> 
> Sex has really screwed up our relationship. I miss the days before sex when we were two peas in a pod. ..........


Then take a month off, plan it, tell him let's take a break and start over. Take a month to enjoy what was. If you are planning absolutely no sex allowed, I think you won't feel rejected.

Disclaimer~ this advice is given but I never went thru with it myself, it is totally untested! 

Also before you married him you loved himand there was no sex. Partially it was okay because you chose to not have sex. I also understand that you thought it was coming that there would be lots of hot and heavy sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We've tried a "sex fast" in the past for the same reasons. We lasted about 2.5 weeks I think. It did not help.

But I might be willing to try it again if I thought it would do something.


----------



## I Don't Know

Curious, what exactly do you get in this relationship? Your husband gets a maid, a cook, companionship WHEN he wants it, and sex again WHEN he wants it. I know you don't feel desired. Do you feel loved? Not rationally know he loves you, do FEEL IT? If you could shut off your sex drive you could be happy? Because you guys get along great? I get along great with tons of people, but there is only one I want to spend my life with.

You're a highly sexual person. It is part of you. Do you really want to give that up to stay with him? What does he give you that is so important to make that sacrifice? It would be like asking Buddy Holly to give up music. 

I don't get it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Curious, what exactly do you get in this relationship? Your husband gets a maid, a cook, companionship WHEN he wants it, and sex again WHEN he wants it. I know you don't feel desired. Do you feel loved? Not rationally know he loves you, do FEEL IT? If you could shut off your sex drive you could be happy? Because you guys get along great? I get along great with tons of people, but there is only one I want to spend my life with.
> 
> You're a highly sexual person. It is part of you. Do you really want to give that up to stay with him? What does he give you that is so important to make that sacrifice? It would be like asking Buddy Holly to give up music.
> 
> I don't get it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



I don't feel very loved right now. But my judgement is clouded by sadness. Yes if I could shut off my sex drive I would give it up to stay with this man. I know he sounds like a jerk, but we have a long history together. And he really isn't a bad guy. He would make someone a great husband, I'm just not sure how compatible we are together.

We've been best friends for over a decade. I remember staying up talking to him until 4 am when we just kids. We balance each other out. I am anxious, and boring. He is calm and fun. Among many other personality traits.

He was the best thing that ever happened in my life. He was a friend when I needed it. He saved me from a bad childhood. He was my escape. He was with me when I was deathly ill, and he always made me feel worth something . He was steady and dependable in my otherwise crappy life. I could count on him.

You guys only see the last two years of our relationship. You see all our problems. But honestly before this, he was everything I could have asked for. We complimented each other so well. He made me a better person. 

Introduce sex and everything just seems to be crumbling. I'm loosing sight of the man I fell in love with.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Perhaps he sees you as more of a sister figure????


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I just wanted to remind you guys that your only seeing the tip of the iceberg of our relationship. I know you guys don't understand why I cling to a man that is so sexually selfish, but there is so much more than just sex in a relationship. 



> Perhaps he sees you as more of a sister figure????


I don't think he sees me as a sister. His relationship with his sisters is way different then ours.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am so put out that I don't even want to be too close to him. Last night he tried to snuggle up against me while sleeping and I told him I was crowded. This morning while I was half asleep and he tried to touch me I told him to leave me alone. I know it's not right, and I didn't mean to. But I honestly want to cringe away from him when he touches me.


Does he ever say that you reject him? My guess is that the last night encounter would strike him as being rejected by you. From your description he was sending out a reconnaissance hand to determine if you were in the mood. And that way he does not have to feel fully rejected when you tell him to leave you alone.

Too bad he does not know that he would have made a lot more progress if he aggressively showed you that he wanted sex and woke you up demanding sex.

This is puzzling. From what I am reading in your post I see the cycle of desire being passed back and forth between you to and you rarely both have desire anymore at the same time.

Really sucks.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When I say he wanted to snuggle or touch me he wasn't trying to test me for sex. His feet were just cold and he was trying to get close to warm them up. 

I'm positive there were no sexual thoughts behind it.

Also that was the first time I've ever told him to leave me alone.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He says his libido is low, have you printed out any info on naturally bringing up T like the one I linked (or anything) and asked him if you 2 could work on this together? He was there when you were deathly ill, if it is low T, you could be there and return the favor of supporting him thru it. He does not have to get anything checked. The idea that my husbands body could fix itself was definitely more appealing to my husband. 

The more you can make him feel comfortable the more he will share with you. It took my husband some time to admit something was off, then some more time of dawdling, then some more time before sharing the whole thing that was going on with him, he kept hoping it would go away or he could magically get something to work.

PS 
I don't think killing the sex drive will work, at least not without damaging your health.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> When I say he wanted to snuggle or touch me he wasn't trying to test me for sex. His feet were just cold and he was trying to get close to warm them up.
> 
> I'm positive there were no sexual thoughts behind it.
> 
> Also that was the first time I've ever told him to leave me alone.


Oh, chilly feet. I get it now. So you are his bed warmer too.

Well, I am with checking his T, and seeing where that takes you.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I just wanted to remind you guys that your only seeing the tip of the iceberg of our relationship. I know you guys don't understand why I cling to a man that is so sexually selfish, *but there is so much more than just sex in a relationship. *
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think he sees me as a sister. His relationship with his sisters is way different then ours.


Yep, and those relationships are called friendships.

I realize there's probably a whole bunch of great things about him. In the end you have to decide if those things are enough for you, because the sex issues may never change. IMO they are unlikely to change.

Ok, I saw someone mention you waited until you were married to have sex? Whose idea was that? What was your relationship like before that? Did he seem to have a lot of desire when sex was out of the question? Was there heavy breathing type makeout sessions? Did YOU ever have to put the brakes on to keep things from going too far? Or was it always a softer more loving and caring type of affection between you?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Yep, and those relationships are called friendships.
> 
> I realize there's probably a whole bunch of great things about him. In the end you have to decide if those things are enough for you, because the sex issues may never change. IMO they are unlikely to change.
> 
> Ok, I saw someone mention you waited until you were married to have sex? Whose idea was that? What was your relationship like before that? Did he seem to have a lot of desire when sex was out of the question? Was there heavy breathing type makeout sessions? Did YOU ever have to put the brakes on to keep things from going too far? Or was it always a softer more loving and caring type of affection between you?


We both agreed we wanted to wait. Our relationship was great then. Lots of snuggling and making out for hours. There were definitely a lot of heavy breathing makeout sessions. Dry humping. But I can't say either of us had to ever put the brakes down. Actually it was quite easy to wait. I never understood people who struggled with it. Neither of us let things get too far, we always stopped ourselves before anything got out of hand. 

I see now maybe I should have taken that as a warning sign, that it seemed so easy. Although I could tell he did get aroused during our sessions, and there was a lot of, "I can't wait until we get to do such and such." He seemed a lot more excited about sex than me.

In fact it was so easy for me to wait I assumed I would be the low drive one in our relationship. I thought I wouldn't have a sex drive. Boy was I wrong.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We both agreed we wanted to wait. Our relationship was great then. Lots of snuggling and making out for hours. There were definitely a lot of heavy breathing makeout sessions. Dry humping. But I can't say either of us had to ever put the brakes down. Actually it was quite easy to wait. I never understood people who struggled with it. Neither of us let things get too far, we always stopped ourselves before anything got out of hand.
> 
> I see now maybe I should have taken that as a warning sign, that it seemed so easy. Although I could tell he did get aroused during our sessions, and there was a lot of, "I can't wait until we get to do such and such." He seemed a lot more excited about sex than me.
> 
> In fact it was so easy for me to wait I assumed I would be the low drive one in our relationship. I thought I wouldn't have a sex drive. Boy was I wrong.


Ok. Well I don't see anything there that I would have taken as a warning sign either. I'm really just trying to get a feel for the type of love he might feel for you. 

IDK Curious, maybe he is low T. Maybe he just doesn't have much drive. Bottom line is can it be fixed and does he really want to fix it or is he waiting for a magical cure? Adding libido to a list of things to pray for is nice and all, but really doesn't solve the problem. 

I feel like i've been a little hard on you in this thread, and I'm sorry about that. It's NOT your fault. If you want to stay and work on it, that's probably the right thing.

I'll be honest part of my problem here is projection and triggering. My GF stayed with her XH for 5 years while he multi-cheated on her and treated her like a servant. I have a hard time dealing with WHY she would stay so long. What did he have that she needed so bad to put up with it. 

I don't think your H is cheating, but I still get those same questions in your story. I just don't want to see you throw a lot of years down the drain trying to get what you need from someone who won't or can't give it.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Long time lurker finally tossing in 2 more cents...

I've really appreciated reading your posts CW. Reading your posts are just about like reading my own thoughts and experiences. You are not alone.

From reading your posts I feel like I might be 5-6 weeks ahead of you. After another year of trying to ramp up the sex life, I finally couldn't stand it anymore and gave up again 6 weeks ago. Well, I was probably giving up before then, but that was our last encounter and I've definitely turned off the heat since then.

The first weeks I think she only noticed my grouchiness (duh, horny and frustrated :scratchhead. As the weeks go by I can see the lack of affection from my side starting to get to her, but darn it when the pains of neglect get too high you can't help but shut down eventually.

These last few weeks I've finally put divorce on the table (in my head, not to my wife yet). It's help me stay detached. I'm not ready to divorce today for my own personal reasons (nothing nefarious, just not ready to hit the road yet) so I haven't used the D word with my wife, because I won't use that word until the day I'm 100% ready to walk out the door.

I wish I had an easier answer for both of us, but the more I read and learn and try the more I'm starting to see the best solution is to divorce and move on. 

What am I fighting for? Bad sex with someone that's not really interested? We are best friends, but I need a wife.


----------



## edgya1234

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am really starting to see the selfishness.
> 
> But when I bring it up about him maybe being selfish he just says I'm selfish for always wanting an orgasm.
> 
> Then it makes me wonder. Am I being selfish? Should I just take what I'm getting and be happy with it? I just don't know if maybe I am being selfish by wanting him to give me an orgasm every couple days. It does take 20 minutes sometimes.
> 
> Of course then I think. If he asked me for one every couple days, which he does. I would happily oblige. So I'm confused.
> 
> I hate to stop giving him HJs BJs and quickies. Because then it makes me the bad person. I don't want him to feel the way I do. I just want him to be a little more considerate.


I've been reading your story and is really sad. There is nothing wrong with you, if there is, something is wrong with him.
Look I know it is not the best advice but go on and flirt more, go on and meet new people just to see that look of " I want to rip your clothes off" from a guy and you will feel more confident about yourself.
Now you are frustrated and feel like he is your mirror. He is not. Get up and act like a femme fatale every day. Get out with his friends and be a light flirt. And really porn is always funny - read some books and take care of yourself, a hot bath, candles and the image of a Christian Gray in your head will do wonders. 
Don't put so much effort in doing things for him, put a lot of effort in doing things for yourself. And well climate might affect men. In a hot climate like Spain, Brazil people are really full on board. Learn to love yourself, stop struggling with your husband and he will come arround. If he does not, really move to Spain - it will be mind blowing I am just trying to cheer you up really but the most important person in your life is yourself not your husband.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The fact that you call yourself anxious and boring, while referring to him as fun, is problematic.

This might be the image of yourself you are projecting to him, which as you can imagine is not very appealing. Changing some things about yourself might be a really good idea. I'm not saying drastic personality or look changes. I'm talking small adjustments of a more outgoing fun attitude. If you're sitting around thinking that you're a boring person, eventually he will think of you that way too, and who wants to have sex with a boring person?


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



edgya1234 said:


> I've been reading your story and is really sad. There is nothing wrong with you, if there is, something is wrong with him.
> Look I know it is not the best advice but go on and flirt more, go on and meet new people just to see that look of " I want to rip your clothes off" from a guy and you will feel more confident about yourself.
> Now you are frustrated and feel like he is your mirror. He is not. Get up and act like a femme fatale every day. Get out with his friends and be a light flirt. And really porn is always funny - read some books and take care of yourself, a hot bath, candles and the image of a Christian Gray in your head will do wonders.
> Don't put so much effort in doing things for him, put a lot of effort in doing things for yourself. And well climate might affect men. In a hot climate like Spain, Brazil people are really full on board. Learn to love yourself, stop struggling with your husband and he will come arround. If he does not, really move to Spain - it will be mind blowing I am just trying to cheer you up really but the most important person in your life is yourself not your husband.


Exactly, I agree. I think what we're both saying here is why don't you try having some fun and lightening up a little? This could have an impact on his drive.


----------



## Truly Abby

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Exactly, I agree. I think what we're both saying here is why don't you try having some fun and lightening up a little? This could have an impact on his drive.


I disagree. 

He has little to no sex drive. Nothing she has done or said so far has worked. And nothing _will_ work until and unless HE decides it's important enough to work on. He makes excuses and promises but nothing changes. 

I'm sorry to say this but I do not see him changing. He has no motivation to do so. He's apparently just fine with things the way they are. This makes me sad for you.


----------



## Truly Abby

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> Long time lurker finally tossing in 2 more cents...
> 
> I've really appreciated reading your posts CW. Reading your posts are just about like reading my own thoughts and experiences. You are not alone.
> 
> From reading your posts I feel like I might be 5-6 weeks ahead of you. After another year of trying to ramp up the sex life, I finally couldn't stand it anymore and gave up again 6 weeks ago. Well, I was probably giving up before then, but that was our last encounter and I've definitely turned off the heat since then.
> 
> The first weeks I think she only noticed my grouchiness (duh, horny and frustrated :scratchhead. As the weeks go by I can see the lack of affection from my side starting to get to her, but darn it when the pains of neglect get too high you can't help but shut down eventually.
> 
> These last few weeks I've finally put divorce on the table (in my head, not to my wife yet). It's help me stay detached. I'm not ready to divorce today for my own personal reasons (nothing nefarious, just not ready to hit the road yet) so I haven't used the D word with my wife, because I won't use that word until the day I'm 100% ready to walk out the door.
> 
> I wish I had an easier answer for both of us, but the more I read and learn and try the more I'm starting to see the best solution is to divorce and move on.
> 
> What am I fighting for? Bad sex with someone that's not really interested? We are best friends, but I need a wife.


How long have you been married and it was it always this way?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Maybe get some hobbies, something you could do with a group, like knitting, quilting, scrapbooking, etc. It would help you have a broader view, give you something to distract you, other people to connect with, to help build you up. Our lives can be so focused on the problem and sometimes we need to step back and find something else to do and give it some time. Time for him to grow and change. If you've been together over 10 years as friends the change may take time for him and sometimes people won't move when being pushed, we can be like mules. If he really is a great guy, your best friend give him time to see the things he needs to.

For me I just focused on doing more outings with the six kids, distracted me and gave all kinds of interesting things to talk about never seeming like we were just avoiding the issue. When you don't have much else to talk about it will always feel like you are avoiding the issue.

PS
I don't think focusing on sex will do anything but make you feel more strongly what your missing. Take care of your needs but don't let it become your sole focus. I know it's easier said than done! . I don't think you can turn off your sex drive but I think you can turn down the volume for a time.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well so much for sticking with the detaching from sex. I had sex yesterday. 

It started out innocently enough. Some snuggling, then husband commented that we haven't been kissing enough. (Yeah no duh.) So he suggested we play a silly game we used to play when we were in high school. One person tries to see how long they can resist kissing back, while the other person uses whatever means possible to seduce them into kissing except for touching under clothes. It's good for some laughs, and for a warm up if one of us isn't in the mood. 

Needless to say lots of licking, dry humping, touching. We were both panting shortly and he asked. It was fun, and he spent a lot of time focusing on me, including oral. I have to say one good thing about waiting a long time in between sex. Because he is actually horny, he is a lot more into it, and a lot more into meeting my needs. More vocal, more excited. If only he was like that all the time.

I didn't have an orgasm, but it wasn't his fault. He tried for a long time, and was flustered when I asked him to stop. I still had a good time.

My book is supposed to be shipped, so I think for the time being I will just continue to be cool about sex. Maybe after a couple more long spans without sex he will realize just how much the frequency has decreased since I stopped initiating.

It's time he had to chase me for once.

When the book gets here we will read it and try to work on a solution together. If that fails, I'll be looking at my other options.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Ok. Well I don't see anything there that I would have taken as a warning sign either. I'm really just trying to get a feel for the type of love he might feel for you.
> 
> IDK Curious, maybe he is low T. Maybe he just doesn't have much drive. Bottom line is can it be fixed and does he really want to fix it or is he waiting for a magical cure? Adding libido to a list of things to pray for is nice and all, but really doesn't solve the problem.
> 
> I feel like i've been a little hard on you in this thread, and I'm sorry about that. It's NOT your fault. If you want to stay and work on it, that's probably the right thing.
> 
> I'll be honest part of my problem here is projection and triggering. My GF stayed with her XH for 5 years while he multi-cheated on her and treated her like a servant. I have a hard time dealing with WHY she would stay so long. What did he have that she needed so bad to put up with it.
> 
> I don't think your H is cheating, but I still get those same questions in your story. I just don't want to see you throw a lot of years down the drain trying to get what you need from someone who won't or can't give it.


I'm sorry this causes a trigger for you. I'm sure it can be frustrating watching me stay with someone who doesn't seem to be compatible. 

I'm glad your GF finally saw the light, and has you.  You seem like a caring man. 

I hope that one day my husband comes around and things improve, or else I see the light and find someone who satisfies me. Hopefully sooner rather than later.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> Long time lurker finally tossing in 2 more cents...
> 
> I've really appreciated reading your posts CW. Reading your posts are just about like reading my own thoughts and experiences. You are not alone.
> 
> From reading your posts I feel like I might be 5-6 weeks ahead of you. After another year of trying to ramp up the sex life, I finally couldn't stand it anymore and gave up again 6 weeks ago. Well, I was probably giving up before then, but that was our last encounter and I've definitely turned off the heat since then.
> 
> The first weeks I think she only noticed my grouchiness (duh, horny and frustrated :scratchhead. As the weeks go by I can see the lack of affection from my side starting to get to her, but darn it when the pains of neglect get too high you can't help but shut down eventually.
> 
> These last few weeks I've finally put divorce on the table (in my head, not to my wife yet). It's help me stay detached. I'm not ready to divorce today for my own personal reasons (nothing nefarious, just not ready to hit the road yet) so I haven't used the D word with my wife, because I won't use that word until the day I'm 100% ready to walk out the door.
> 
> I wish I had an easier answer for both of us, but the more I read and learn and try the more I'm starting to see the best solution is to divorce and move on.
> 
> What am I fighting for? Bad sex with someone that's not really interested? We are best friends, but I need a wife.


I'm glad someone appreciates my posts. Sometimes I think I'm just rambling and whining and I annoy the crap out of everyone. lol.

I understand the grouchiness. I can't help it either. If I'm not getting laid, and getting my emotional and physical needs met then I get cranky. 

I'm glad your finally finding an answer to your situation. I hope whatever you decide it works out to the best for you.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You are welcomed to ramble and whine all you want Curious.......((hugs))


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hobbies are a good thing. I could use more of them. But I'm just so busy busy busy. Hopefully after my school is done I'll have more free time.

With summer here I do have more activities, and hobbies. I am an outdoors person, so I've got gardening and such to do now. 

But I don't know about changing my personality and being more outgoing.

I am who I am. I'm not outgoing or flirty. He married me, full aware that I wasn't a social butterfly. I just don't feel like I should have to change who I am to try to maybe make him love me more.

Of course he could probably say the same. I'm sure he doesn't feel he should have to change his low drive to make me love him more.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Trudy Abby said:


> I disagree.
> 
> He has little to no sex drive. Nothing she has done or said so far has worked. And nothing _will_ work until and unless HE decides it's important enough to work on. He makes excuses and promises but nothing changes.
> 
> I'm sorry to say this but I do not see him changing. He has no motivation to do so. He's apparently just fine with things the way they are. This makes me sad for you.


How is him adding libido to his list not an attempt at perhaps starting to change things? You know it's a two way street. It never hurts to work on yourself as well.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm glad someone appreciates my posts. Sometimes I think I'm just rambling and whining and I annoy the crap out of everyone. lol.
> 
> I understand the grouchiness. I can't help it either. If I'm not getting laid, and getting my emotional and physical needs met then I get cranky.
> 
> I'm glad your finally finding an answer to your situation. I hope whatever you decide it works out to the best for you.


My husband would joke he needed to push the reset button every few days. I would just get oh so cranky and sex is my reset. Intercourse reset me even when I didn't orgasm with him because I had just taken care of myself cause I thought nothing was coming!

You don't annoy us at all! I would often feel that way to. I would even think I was annoying my husband to which he said I didn't. (The irritabilty from lo T didn't help with how I felt I was annoying him.)


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Hobbies are a good thing. I could use more of them. But I'm just so busy busy busy. Hopefully after my school is done I'll have more free time.
> 
> With summer here I do have more activities, and hobbies. I am an outdoors person, so I've got gardening and such to do now.
> 
> But I don't know about changing my personality and being more outgoing.
> 
> I am who I am. I'm not outgoing or flirty. He married me, full aware that I wasn't a social butterfly. I just don't feel like I should have to change who I am to try to maybe make him love me more.
> 
> Of course he could probably say the same. I'm sure he doesn't feel he should have to change his low drive to make me love him more.


I'm not saying you have to be a social butterfly. I'm saying you seem to be stuck in a rut of work, school, and trying to force the husband to have sex with you, and resenting him when he doesn't. Why not break out of that a little and go out with your friends? Make him miss you a little bit. Don't be in his face always ready to have sex when he feels like it. I hate to break it to you but that's how marriage works, when you can have something all the time it's not really that exciting, that's why you see couples talking about getting the spice back into their relationship etc. I'm just saying if you focus on doing things for YOU, like going out and getting hobbies, you might help him rediscover his desire for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> I'm not saying you have to be a social butterfly. I'm saying you seem to be stuck in a rut of work, school, and trying to force the husband to have sex with you, and resenting him when he doesn't. Why not break out of that a little and go out with your friends? Make him miss you a little bit. Don't be in his face always ready to have sex when he feels like it. I hate to break it to you but that's how marriage works, when you can have something all the time it's not really that exciting, that's why you see couples talking about getting the spice back into their relationship etc. I'm just saying if you focus on doing things for YOU, like going out and getting hobbies, you might help him rediscover his desire for you.


Oh I agree. Getting out more would be good for me. Spend time away from each other.

It's hard with a small number of very busy friends. But I'll see what I can come up with.


----------



## Truly Abby

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> How is him adding libido to his list not *an attempt at perhaps starting to change *things? You know it's a two way street. It never hurts to work on yourself as well.


Really?? That's just silly. Really silly.:rofl:


----------



## Truly Abby

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MeatTrain (for some reason I simple LOVE that name)
I agree working on oneself is always a good idea. This husband seems pretty unwilling/unable to meet his wife's directly stated needs. I just don't see it changing, sadly enough.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Trudy Abby said:


> MeatTrain (for some reason I simple LOVE that name)
> I agree working on oneself is always a good idea. This husband seems pretty unwilling/unable to meet his wife's directly stated needs. I just don't see it changing, sadly enough.


I'm really not trying to pick a fight but........

Are you speaking from experience with this or is it just an opinion?

If from experience I'm so sorry. But sometimes these things do work themselves out with time and patience. It seems like he could be a good guy whose embarassed and therefore avoids figuring it out. It sucks for her but we have to admit we all put off doing things, figuring out things that make us feel uncomfortable at times. We have to get desperate enough.

It seems to me that her not pursueing is making him start to ask questions, she just may have to find things to take her mind off it for now and do things to keep it on his to do list without pressure from her.


----------



## I Don't Know

TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm sorry this causes a trigger for you. I'm sure it can be frustrating watching me stay with someone who doesn't seem to be compatible.
> 
> I'm glad your GF finally saw the light, and has you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem like a caring man.
> 
> I hope that one day my husband comes around and things improve, or else I see the light and find someone who satisfies me. Hopefully sooner rather than later.


It's not your fault at all Curious. Just wanted to explain my perspective. Also, I've been in your shoes, sorta. My X was LD, or at least LD for me. I tend to think overall LD because she told me early on lack of sex had been a problem in the past. Being young and confident, I figured I could turn that around. Stupid huh. Well 12 years and 2 kids later I had to have the hardest conversation of my life, telling my daughter (son was too young to understand) that mom and dad aren't going to live together anymore. 

I just dont want to see that happen to you. Maybe he can change, maybe not. But I do know if he doesn't care,it wont get better. And I mean REALLY care. Not "well I wish it was different" Honest to God "I WANT to fix this" kind of caring. Even if he does try, most people can't keep that kind of effort going for very long. You've seen this as he will get better for a while. But it's short lived. Because it's just not important to them and they can't imagine that it really is important to us either.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Trudy Abby said:


> MeatTrain (for some reason I simple LOVE that name)
> I agree working on oneself is always a good idea. This husband seems pretty unwilling/unable to meet his wife's directly stated needs. I just don't see it changing, sadly enough.


It's not always easy to meet your partner's needs, especially when they don't coincide with your own. CW is clearly still willing to stay and work on the marriage so your contribution of "I don't see it changing" doesn't really help with anything. But thanks for your exceptionally insightful prediction.


----------



## Truly Abby

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> It's not always easy to meet your partner's needs, especially when they don't coincide with your own. CW is clearly still willing to stay and work on the marriage so your contribution of "I don't see it changing" doesn't really help with anything. But thanks for your exceptionally insightful prediction.


Sure no problem MeatyTrain. I hope it works out for Curious, she's obviously in a lot of pain.


----------



## Truly Abby

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> It's not your fault at all Curious. Just wanted to explain my perspective. Also, I've been in your shoes, sorta. My X was LD, or at least LD for me. I tend to think overall LD because she told me early on lack of sex had been a problem in the past. Being young and confident, I figured I could turn that around. Stupid huh. Well 12 years and 2 kids later I had to have the hardest conversation of my life, telling my daughter (son was too young to understand) that mom and dad aren't going to live together anymore.
> 
> I just dont want to see that happen to you. Maybe he can change, maybe not. But I do know if he doesn't care,it wont get better. And I mean REALLY care. Not "well I wish it was different" Honest to God "I WANT to fix this" kind of caring. *Even if he does try, most people can't keep that kind of effort going for very long. You've seen this as he will get better for a while. But it's short lived.* Because it's just not important to them and they can't imagine that it really is important to us either.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


:iagree:


----------



## Oddity

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wow. Can’t believe this thread is still going on. I need to do some reading to catch up on it. Kinda funny (not really though) that my first post in year is following the above post. 

Long story short about a year ago I was on here as the LD husband, things finally started to get better. Well close to a year to the day we are right back where we started from. I’m still LD but have had all the test’s and even an MRI to see about my low “T”. Well it’s on the low end of normal is all I’ve found out, aside from that nothing wrong. Wife has been bringing up the “D” word frequently and now any time I’m in the sac it’s all I can think about (Go soft one more time and my family is gone). 

Anyway, I’ll be keeping tabs on this thread as I feel it’s helped me in the past, probably do some posting of my own too…


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Oddity said:


> Wow. Can’t believe this thread is still going on. I need to do some reading to catch up on it. Kinda funny (not really though) that my first post in year is following the above post.
> 
> Long story short about a year ago I was on here as the LD husband, things finally started to get better. Well close to a year to the day we are right back where we started from. I’m still LD but have had all the test’s and even an MRI to see about my low “T”. Well it’s on the low end of normal is all I’ve found out, aside from that nothing wrong. Wife has been bringing up the “D” word frequently and now any time I’m in the sac it’s all I can think about (Go soft one more time and my family is gone).
> 
> Anyway, I’ll be keeping tabs on this thread as I feel it’s helped me in the past, probably do some posting of my own too…



I'm glad you get something out of reading my posts. I feel really sorry for you that you have to have all that pressure every time you have sex. It's interesting seeing a similar story from the other POV. I pray that my husband doesn't have the same pressure from me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just checking in. Still marching on. I've continued to not seek out intimacy. Husband has picked up the slack and has been initiating, albeit at less frequently of course. We were only averaging about once a week for the month. But here lately it's been about twice a week.

I've really lowered my expectation with him about sex and intimacy. I don't count on anything, and if he puts some effort in then hey, it's a good surprise. 

I received the book and he is the one who found the package and opened it. He just said, "oh your not sex starved." I told him I'd like us both to read it, but he just kind of shrugged it off. I haven't had time to read it yet, but I will be pressing him to read it.

Yesterday I wore a beautiful dress. Husband attacked me when we got home. It was hot and heavy and exciting. But about 2 minutes into the foreplay husband decides we should go have sex outside with our clothes on. Yeah that's fun, but I was so horny I was ready to go, and asked him if I could please finish inside first since I knew I wouldn't be able to climax standing up, and it was feeling so great.

He pressured me into going outside, and he thrusted about 5 times and was done. He did take me back inside and made an effort to finish me but the moment had passed. 

He knows I have trouble going after him because I get aroused by his arousal. I couldn't get there.  I was upset because it was feeling so good before, and I feel like I've been patiently waiting for sex for days and I finally get some and it gets cut short. I hate quickies if that is all I'm going to get for awhile. They don't satisfy me. 

Of course he was sorry and "would have let me finish first if he knew I wouldn't be able to do it standing up." Despite me telling him before. 

I excused myself to the bathroom and finished the job myself. Just like I always do if he can't get me there. I don't get as upset if I don't have an O with him, if I know I can go take care of it myself. Before my O was dependent on him. It put too much pressure on me to get there, and it left us both upset if I couldn't. Now if things aren't working out, it's not a big deal. 

Still doing good on helping with the chores.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ok, that one was "his way" .. next time tell him you want it "your way"


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Of course he was sorry and "would have let me finish first if he knew I wouldn't be able to do it standing up." Despite me telling him before.


No he is not and no he would not have. 

What ever his desire, he has lots of control issues when it comes to sex. Sex is on his terms only. He loves to tease then not follow through. He knows what he is doing (or he is the most clueless person on the planet).


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> No he is not and no he would not have.
> 
> What ever his desire, he has lots of control issues when it comes to sex. Sex is on his terms only. He loves to tease then not follow through. He knows what he is doing (or he is the most clueless person on the planet).


Another act of being selfish I should say. I would venture to guess that he knew the position would get him off in a hurry. He just wanted his, and did not care about hers at the time. Personally, if the position was that good for him (5 strokes and bang) he could have waited until she was satisfied and worn out knowing that he could come quickly that way. But perhaps he is still learning.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> No he is not and no he would not have.
> 
> What ever his desire, he has lots of control issues when it comes to sex. Sex is on his terms only. He loves to tease then not follow through. He knows what he is doing (or he is the most clueless person on the planet).


My post was sarcasm. I like this smiley.  

Actually I think he was just trying to spice things up. Which we need. Our sex life is pretty routine and boring. So I'm all for spicing. But he should have taken into consideration my needs too. I don't see how letting me go first would have ruined anything.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Another act of being selfish I should say. I would venture to guess that he knew the position would get him off in a hurry. He just wanted his, and did not care about hers at the time. Personally, if the position was that good for him (5 strokes and bang) he could have waited until she was satisfied and worn out knowing that he could come quickly that way. But perhaps he is still learning.


He can last longer than that, but it was broad daylight and our neighbors could have seen us so he was hurrying.

He did want to satisfy me. It wasn't his intention to not finish me. As I said after he was done he took me inside and was happy to give me my turn. It just didn't work out for me and I told him to stop when it wasn't going anywhere and I was beginning to stare at the ceiling fan.

What upset me was that we both know I couldn't go standing up. There was no reason for him to turn down my request to go first. I was almost there and when he saw me getting close he rushed us outside despite my protests. 

So what could have been a 5 minute exciting spicy quickie turned into a 30 minute bore with disappointment and hurt feelings afterwards. 

I just don't think he uses his head sometimes.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> What upset me was that we both know I couldn't go standing up. There was no reason for him to turn down my request to go first. I was almost there and when he saw me getting close he rushed us outside despite my protests.
> 
> So what could have been a 5 minute exciting spicy quickie turned into a 30 minute bore with disappointment and hurt feelings afterwards.
> 
> I just don't think he uses his head sometimes.


So he knows you can't go standing up, you protested that you did not want to go outside, but he refused to listen and insisted that you do so any way.

So my question to you is why you are giving him the benefit of the doubt here?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> So he knows you can't go standing up, you protested that you did not want to go outside, but he refused to listen and insisted that you do so any way.
> 
> So my question to you is why you are giving him the benefit of the doubt here?


Because he did had intentions to please me, and he did put in a conscious effort. It wasn't like he was trying to weasel his way out of putting in any effort, which I am aware he has done in the past. He was genuinely upset that he couldn't get me there and felt bad about it. He was pushing to keep trying, I was the one who put a stop to it. So I can hardly put the blame on him, it was just frustrating.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Because he did had intentions to please me, and he did put in a conscious effort. It wasn't like he was trying to weasel his way out of putting in any effort, which I am aware he has done in the past. He was genuinely upset that he couldn't get me there and felt bad about it. He was pushing to keep trying, I was the one who put a stop to it. So I can hardly put the blame on him, it was just frustrating.


I see where you are coming from and agree that he seems to have been putting effort in to it.

I guess I would not completely absolve him of responsibility for your frustration. He ignored what you clearly stated you needed ,including at the moment, so that he could get what he needed. I suspect your issue was about the totality of the experience and his behavior.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I see where you are coming from and agree that he seems to have been putting effort in to it.
> 
> I guess I would not completely absolve him of responsibility for your frustration. He ignored what you clearly stated you needed ,including at the moment, so that he could get what he needed. I suspect your issue was about the totality of the experience and his behavior.


Oh I agree he was not faultless. He SHOULD have listened to my requests. I just don't want to dump all the blame on him that I couldn't have an orgasm. We both played a role in it. But next time I make a request I will make sure that it doesn't get pushed aside. 

My orgasms are so fickle, it makes me mad sometimes. Before we went outside I was crazy horny. I felt like I could go any second. But as soon as we ran outside for a few minutes the mood was broken and I couldn't get there anymore. Girls are complicated creatures. You men have it easy.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You men have it easy.


 EASY?!?! Not when we're the ones trying to do calculus and astronomy to figure out how to satisfy you lunatics!!! 

One question has your H read She Comes First? My GF loves the techniques from that book, but she's O's pretty easy anyway. Not sure if it would help you go faster, but if it does it might build his confidence. If he got more consistent results he might be more willing. Might be worth a shot.

ETA: Sorry that's a lot of mights!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> EASY?!?! Not when we're the ones trying to do calculus and astronomy to figure out how to satisfy you lunatics!!!
> 
> One question has your H read She Comes First? My GF loves the techniques from that book, but she's O's pretty easy anyway. Not sure if it would help you go faster, but if it does it might build his confidence. If he got more consistent results he might be more willing. Might be worth a shot.
> 
> ETA: Sorry that's a lot of mights!


Yeah but that doesn't bother a man if he doesn't care... 

I have the book. I have read it several times, he has flipped through it only. Oral is not a common occurrence in my marriage, so even if he did read it completely, I don't think it would help anything. 

I was pushing him to try to get me to orgasm from oral for a while. But then every time before he did oral he would ask me, "do you think you will be able to finish this time?" That was a turn off. I will never know if I will be able to finish, if he won't try for more than 5 minutes. There was too much pressure on me to perform. So I stopped asking.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yeah but that doesn't bother a man if he doesn't care...
> 
> I have the book. I have read it several times, he has flipped through it only. Oral is not a common occurrence in my marriage, so even if he did read it completely, I don't think it would help anything.
> 
> I was pushing him to try to get me to orgasm from oral for a while. But then every time before he did oral he would ask me, "do you think you will be able to finish this time?" That was a turn off. I will never know if I will be able to finish, if he won't try for more than 5 minutes. There was too much pressure on me to perform. So I stopped asking.


I hear you. I'm sorry. That absolutely sucks. I was trying to put myself in his shoes and think what would make me more hesitant to put in effort. But your H is so foreign to me, I can't begin to understand him.

About men not caring, absolutely true. I've been guilty of not putting in the effort, but not in an LTR.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> I hear you. I'm sorry. That absolutely sucks. I was trying to put myself in his shoes and think what would make me more hesitant to put in effort. But your H is so foreign to me, I can't begin to understand him.
> 
> About men not caring, absolutely true. I've been guilty of not putting in the effort, but not in an LTR.


He is a great mystery. :scratchhead:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have a question for the men here. What age were you when you had been having sex a little over a year? I'm guessing it was long before you were married for many of you, maybe even before graduating highschool. Does that make any difference on understanding his cluelessness? I'm thinking maybe you could give some insight from that point of view, just an idea.

Curious~ I think she talks about the issue of people saying they're not sex starved. Maybe you can read that to him when you find it. Sorry he got the package first.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Well I will give you a little credit for asking to not step outside. He should have taken the request seriously. However, I will give you credit for trying because if you started to argue about it, that alone would have been a mood killer.

However, I really think that he needs to understand and listen to you first. If you are close, he should be tuned into that. If nothing else, you can whisper that you are close and he should continue without doing anything to break your concentration.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that women in general have a harder time getting back to the point of being close to an orgasm once they have been disturbed. Perhaps it is true with you Curious. Anyhow, another thing he needs to learn about and keep in his mind when he gets selfish and kills it for you.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I have a question for the men here. What age were you when you had been having sex a little over a year? I'm guessing it was long before you were married for many of you, maybe even before graduating highschool. Does that make any difference on understanding his cluelessness? I'm thinking maybe you could give some insight from that point of view, just an idea.
> 
> Curious~ I think she talks about the issue of people saying they're not sex starved. Maybe you can read that to him when you find it. Sorry he got the package first.


Yeah, I think his lack of experience definitely plays a big part in this. Most men are active way before they get married. I would have felt so bad for my wife if she had been my first, lol.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Yeah, I think his lack of experience definitely plays a big part in this. Most men are active way before they get married. I would have felt so bad for my wife if she had been my first, lol.


Yeah, probably the first 3 women I was with I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't know how to help them get there. Hell I didn't even know how to figure out how to get them there. 

But he does know. I guess Curious has trained him well at least in the HOW part. Now he just has to work on the WANT TO part.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thank you for bring that up! I think it is very important to remember that this is our first sexual experiences with anyone. So yes, we are "behind" many of you. It's a learning process that's for sure. 

As a side note he initiated last night. (well with a little help from me ) Whoot whoot! Only one day in between, rather than several. He more than made up for his selfishness the other day. 

:smthumbup:

He was very generous and attentive. Every time I tried to do something to him or talk he would push me down on the bed and tell me to lay back and shut up and enjoy myself. :rofl: All in fun of course. 

He can be quite the trooper if he wants to be. I love it when we are both panting and exhausted afterwards. 

We are both getting along better since I've let go of some of the resentment, and it's nice outside so we've been more productive with life. 

I just hope it can last through period week, which is quickly approaching.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Glad to hear how well it went last night. If the experience lingers in your head, let him know that too. It is ok to share that the experience was a good one and that you enjoyed it - even if you remind him a day or two later. That's not begging, that's just being up front with your feelings.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I just hope it can last through period week, which is quickly approaching.


Glad to hear. One thing that might help you is to journal every day in a simple manner, such as by giving it a plus, a minus or an even designation. Another poster used this to help him go back to make sure that his current emotions (both good and bad) were not clouding his perception of the past.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> As a side note he initiated last night. (well with a little help from me ) Whoot whoot! Only one day in between, rather than several. He more than made up for his selfishness the other day.
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> He was very generous and attentive. Every time I tried to do something to him or talk he would push me down on the bed and tell me to lay back and shut up and enjoy myself. :rofl: All in fun of course.


:ezpi_wink1:



fightforher said:


> Glad to hear how well it went last night. If the experience lingers in your head, let him know that too. It is ok to share that the experience was a good one and that you enjoyed it - even if you remind him a day or two later. That's not begging, that's just being up front with your feelings.


Telling him repeatedly how well you liked it is great positive renforcement.

I agree with keeping a journal. What if you just kept a journal in detail of the highs for a while. Just write the date and not so good on the bad days if you want to list them but really go into detail on the highs. You might see that there are more good than you thought. If you want to hang in there focusing on the highs may help.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If you are going to make a journal, I might suggest you book mark the best of times. That way when you are feeling low you might be able to lift your spirits a little by looking through at the tabs.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> If you are going to make a journal, I might suggest you book mark the best of times. That way when you are feeling low you might be able to lift your spirits a little by looking through at the tabs.


My fear is that such a journal will skew her perception of what is really happening. If she ignores the bad, the journal could end up masking him backsliding.

As I understand it, using a simple journal like this is based on a couple of reasons. It was easy to do at the end of the day or beginning of the next day. It also prevented it from becoming a venting place, where all the anger comes out. People tend to vent about anger more than they describe their joy, the journal may become more negative.

My thought on the simple journal was to allow CW to look back and really understand what, if any progress, has been made. That if he rejects her on Saturday, she can look and see that she saw 4 of the previous 5 days as positive, so she needs to work to put this incident in prospective. Or that if he rocks her on Friday, his previous negative behavior in 6 of the last 8 days is not erased.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I like the idea of making a simple + or - journal. I don't really have time to keep you guys updated and do a full out journal on my own. Plus I would hate for my husband to find it, and it hurt him. 

I'm try to get myself motivated to start that asap.

I'm almost done reading sex starved marriage. Now I'm trying to figure out how to get husband to read it. He doesn't like to read at all, so I'm sure getting him to read it is going to be a struggle.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Maybe he likes being married more than he hates reading.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I know he WILL read it, because I will "make" him. But I'm just wanting to do it as nicely as possible if I can. lol. If he doesn't want to read it and I make him,then he will just skip over everything and not get anything out of the book. 

Maybe I should go through and highlight the paragraphs that are especially important to me?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Could you get it on audio and maybe he could listen to it while he works out?


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Not a bad idea with the highlighting. Just try to make him understand how very important reading this book will be to his future. I would view this as a fork in the road. Although reading the book will not guarantee success, it certainly is a step forward. Not reading the book or not taking it seriously will make the road ahead more difficult. You may end up in the same place either way, but reading the book does show he's serious about the problem. Not just blowing smoke.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It might be best if he starts with the parts that make him feel like his side is being heard. Everybody wants to read more of somebody who agrees with them!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh I know he WILL read it, because I will "make" him. But I'm just wanting to do it as nicely as possible if I can. lol. If he doesn't want to read it and I make him,then he will just skip over everything and not get anything out of the book.
> 
> Maybe I should go through and highlight the paragraphs that are especially important to me?


Hope he does not read without comprehending. Highlighting might also give you guys a place to start talking.


----------



## NewHubs

TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't really have time to keep you guys updated and do a full out journal on my own.


Perhaps this means that your thread with 'finally' end soon?? Maybe? Just maybe?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> Perhaps this means that your thread with 'finally' end soon?? Maybe? Just maybe?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would you like me to stop putting my journal here? :scratchhead:


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Would you like me to stop putting my journal here? :scratchhead:


No, please keep posting Curious.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Would you like me to stop putting my journal here? :scratchhead:


No CW, I was being factious. Keep positing by all means.

I just hope the next 20 pages doesn't involve you trying to get your hubby to read highlighted print from your book. :sleeping:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am so mad at myself. 

I did something I knew I shouldn't have, and now I regret it.

Yesterday was a good day, I was happy, things were looking up. Against my better judgement I decided to initiate when my husband got home from work. (Yes, yes I know. I just want to smack myself.)

I took a shower, and then just put on a t shirt and when he got home I tried to be all seductive and told him I wanted to have sex. He just looked at me and said "Maybe later." I said, "No, how about now." "We'll see after I do xyz."

Whatever. I could wait a little bit. Not feeling defeated I helped him complete the things he wanted to get done. (Still just wearing the t-shirt, hoping maybe it would be a little flirty)

Well we finished xyz, nothing, so I made dinner, nothing, then he started watching tv, nothing. 2 hours later I decided it wasn't going to happen and I went and put on some clothes. 

Another hour goes by and he gets up and says, "Okay, lets go have sex." By this time, I'm upset. I tell him I'm not really in the mood anymore. He goes to the bedroom, I was assuming to wait for me.

I'm mad, I don't want to go have sex now that he is suddenly ready. But I decide these childish games are stupid, so I get up in a few minutes and decide it's not worth fighting over. So I go in the bedroom, and he gets up to walk out. I say, "Are we not having sex?" 

He looks at me and I says, "No. You can't just tell me no, then 15 minutes later decide you want to." WTH? Really? "How is that any different then you telling me no, then deciding 3 hours later you want to?"  He didn't have a good answer, and gets up and leaves. 

I go to bed at 9pm and lay there for hours crying, and he watches tv in the living room until late. I got no sleep, and now we are both mad.

If there is anything worse than getting rejected... it's getting rejected twice.  I am so stupid. I let myself walk right back into the trap I've fallen in so many times.

Now I am confused. I was being stubborn. When he offered I should have just got up and went and had sex and had a good time. But I can't help but be put off. I'm tired of only having sex when it is convenient for him. So I don't know now if I was in the right, or if I was just being prideful.

Gr. I just don't know why we can never be in the mood at the same time. We go through this over and over and over.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> No CW, I was being factious. Keep positing by all means.
> 
> I just hope the next 20 pages doesn't involve you trying to get your hubby to read highlighted print from your book. :sleeping:


It won't. He is going to start reading it. Today. End of story.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I would just say honey I think we need to read this book together, it may help us both understand each others view point.

Do you have anyway of knowing if he's having trouble getting it up on demand? If he really is low T the rejection could feel more stressful and knock his levels down where he can't produce an erection. He could be embarassed, especially only being in his 20s but it wouldn't be unheard of. Does not mean its gone forever but often they don't realize that either!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I would just say honey I think we need to read this book together, it may help us both understand each others view point.
> 
> Do you have anyway of knowing if he's having trouble getting it up on demand? If he really is low T the rejection could feel more stressful and knock his levels down where he can't produce an erection. He could be embarassed, especially only being in his 20s but it wouldn't be unheard of. Does not mean its gone forever but often they don't realize that either!


He doesn't have trouble getting it up when we are actively making out or doing foreplay or whatever. So I don't think that is the issue. 

But he only gets an erection when we are handsy. Me walking around naked, or in the shower, won't do it. So that does make me feel undesired and not good enough sometimes.

Like yesterday after walking around with just a shirt for hours the only comment he made was "nice pants." All those hours not once did he kiss me, or touch me in any shape, nor did I even see him glance at my body. It hurts my self esteem.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He doesn't have trouble getting it up when we are actively making out or doing foreplay or whatever. So I don't think that is the issue.
> 
> But he only gets an erection when we are handsy. Me walking around naked, or in the shower, won't do it. So that does make me feel undesired and not good enough sometimes.
> 
> Like yesterday after walking around with just a shirt for hours the only comment he made was "nice pants." All those hours not once did he kiss me, or touch me in any shape, nor did I even see him glance at my body. It hurts my self esteem.


I guess so...It would hurt my self esteem too!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I guess so...It would hurt my self esteem too!



Then he will complain because I don't wear lingerie very often. But what's the point?  He obviously doesn't see my body as very sexy. Why put lipstick on a pig, as they say.

It's hard for me to try to work past all these bad feelings every time we have sex and try to enjoy myself. Especially when the sex starts off on a bad note, such as him rejecting me.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My thought was that he is hard when HE initiates not when you do. Just saying this cause though my husband tried to get it up sometimes it just wasn't there. When he started talkng about the problem it was so much easier on me. The ability to make it work can come and go.

Either way I am so sorry you are dealing with this.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> My thought was that he is hard when HE initiates not when you do. Just saying this cause though my husband tried to get it up sometimes it just wasn't there. When he started talkng about the problem it was so much easier on me. The ability to make it work can come and go.
> 
> Either way I am so sorry you are dealing with this.


No he isn't hard when he initiates. He doesn't get hard until we get started and are playing around for a few minutes.

Which makes for many awkward sessions. Usually when sex is started we are both sitting in bed waiting for someone to make the first move. Then we start snuggling, then kissing. There is no passion, no I got to have you now, no I've been waiting for this all day. It's always a cold start. It's hard to get excited about it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No he isn't hard when he initiates. He doesn't get hard until we get started and are playing around for a few minutes.
> 
> Which makes for many awkward sessions. Usually when sex is started we are both sitting in bed waiting for someone to make the first move. Then we start snuggling, then kissing. There is no passion, no I got to have you now, no I've been waiting for this all day. It's always a cold start. It's hard to get excited about it.


Curious, I wish I had words of wisdom for you. My heart literally breaks for you reading your posts. ((((Hugs))) Your husband's situation is absolutely Greek to me as I just can't understand a man in his 20s having a low sex drive. I can't imagine what you are dealing with. I hope things get better soon.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, I wish I had words of wisdom for you. My heart literally breaks for you reading your posts. ((((Hugs))) Your husband's situation is absolutely Greek to me as I just can't understand a man in his 20s having a low sex drive. I can't imagine what you are dealing with. I hope things get better soon.


It's Greek to me too. Some days I feel just as lost as when I first came to TAM.

I feel like giving up on sex. I just want it to all go away so I can be happy. I wish I didn't care about it. I want to go back to the blissful ignorance when I could just day dream about how great our sex life would be. I want to just take sex off the table and forget about it. But I know myself. I can't stop thinking about, and I don't think I could ever let it go.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm with Faithful Wife, he's either grey sexual or low T. Wish you could get him to take a test and find out which it is. It would be great to know if something can be changed or not. If this is who he is you would need to accept it but if he is low T you can keep trying to fix it.

Not advising this but hmmmm one test is just a blod spot test, how could you get a blood spot?!? :ezpi_wink1:  I would never do it but oh would I be tempted.

And next time your feeling horney id suggest taking care of it yourself for right now.

Question, does he seem passionate about anything?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I'm with Faithful Wife, he's either grey sexual or low T. Wish you could get him to take a test and find out which it is. It would be great to know if something can be changed or not. If this is who he is you would need to accept it but if he is low T you can keep trying to fix it.
> 
> Not advising this but hmmmm one test is just a blod spot test, how could you get a blood spot?!? :ezpi_wink1:  I would never do it but oh would I be tempted.
> 
> And next time your feeling horney id suggest taking care of it yourself for right now.
> 
> Question, does he seem passionate about anything?


Haha. You don't even have to take a blood sample. There are some you can send in a saliva sample. He drools when he sleeps sometimes, and boy am I tempted.  I feel it would be dishonest though.

I do take care if it myself. The emotional bond from sex is what I am missing. 

He is passionate about baseball.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am so mad at myself.
> 
> I did something I knew I shouldn't have, and now I regret it.
> 
> Yesterday was a good day, I was happy, things were looking up. Against my better judgement I decided to initiate when my husband got home from work. (Yes, yes I know. I just want to smack myself.)
> 
> I took a shower, and then just put on a t shirt and when he got home I tried to be all seductive and told him I wanted to have sex. He just looked at me and said "Maybe later." I said, "No, how about now." "We'll see after I do xyz."
> 
> Whatever. I could wait a little bit. Not feeling defeated I helped him complete the things he wanted to get done. (Still just wearing the t-shirt, hoping maybe it would be a little flirty)
> 
> Well we finished xyz, nothing, so I made dinner, nothing, then he started watching tv, nothing. 2 hours later I decided it wasn't going to happen and I went and put on some clothes.
> 
> Another hour goes by and he gets up and says, "Okay, lets go have sex." By this time, I'm upset. I tell him I'm not really in the mood anymore. He goes to the bedroom, I was assuming to wait for me.
> 
> I'm mad, I don't want to go have sex now that he is suddenly ready. But I decide these childish games are stupid, so I get up in a few minutes and decide it's not worth fighting over. So I go in the bedroom, and he gets up to walk out. I say, "Are we not having sex?"
> 
> He looks at me and I says, "No. You can't just tell me no, then 15 minutes later decide you want to." WTH? Really? "How is that any different then you telling me no, then deciding 3 hours later you want to?"  He didn't have a good answer, and gets up and leaves.
> 
> I go to bed at 9pm and lay there for hours crying, and he watches tv in the living room until late. I got no sleep, and now we are both mad.
> 
> If there is anything worse than getting rejected... it's getting rejected twice.  I am so stupid. I let myself walk right back into the trap I've fallen in so many times.
> 
> Now I am confused. I was being stubborn. When he offered I should have just got up and went and had sex and had a good time. But I can't help but be put off. I'm tired of only having sex when it is convenient for him. So I don't know now if I was in the right, or if I was just being prideful.
> 
> Gr. I just don't know why we can never be in the mood at the same time. We go through this over and over and over.


Ouch!!

How can somebody be so .. so .. oblivious. He gets home and his wife is hot, but he does not take the clue that this would be the best time. Then you even help him out getting xyz done, and he still needs to unwind or something from work.

I see this again is being selfish and controlling. He wants you to initiate sex, but he wants you do do it only when he gives you the go ahead. To boot, he does not see how hurtful it can be to reject you multiple times between the times he is ready.

His attitude just does not make sense.

Your t-shirt routine reminds me of a friend that stripped and made himself aroused and then stood on a chair by the front door so that when his wife got home she walked right into his hard member. They had sex though. (she was the one that told the story).

How could he be so .. callus? :scratchhead:

Makes me wonder if his T levels vary through the day and that when he comes home from work they are particularly low. My Dr. has told me to test in the morning because that is normally the higher value (and I generally feel much more horny in the morning). Is his job particularly draining? Does he have a long drive home that gets him into an odd mood?

Truly irritating that he can play the game of "reject and you can't change your mind", and you can't play the same game. Childish.

Nothing wrong with what you did. You should be able to initiate with your husband this way. In a normal marriage the t-shirt routine would have resulted in sex. Don't feel bad about being sexy for an evening.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He drools in his sleep hmmmm.  I've done the saliva tests before, they don't take a huge amount but a pretty good amount. You just rinse it out and start over if you don't get enough. If my husband was as resistant to testing as yours I'm not sure I'd be able to resist doing it but I'm sure I'd squeal on myself once it was in the mail. But then again at this point I can't imagine my husband not looking for answers. My husband would also laugh when he found at what I did, so clearly not your situation.

As to the taking care of yourself it doesn't sound like your getting the bonding your looking for when you initiate anyways. I figure 1 out of 2 is better than none out of 2.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Nothing wrong with what you did. You should be able to initiate with your husband this way.


I clearly remember saying to my husband I should be able to initiate, to which he said he likes it when I initiate ( I brought it up the morning after rejection) but I told him that everytime I had initiated in the last few months i had been rejected and I just couldn't do that anymore. Bringing this very point up to my husband was what made him acknowledge that this was not normal and something needed to be done. I think he knew it was off for a longer time before that but saying it out loud was harder.

Mind you we had a history of a good sex life before that so I knew this was a deviation from our normal. But it still really hurt, he had always found me attractive before what was wrong with me. I'm so so sorry your dealing with this. Just remember its not you, its really not.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Ouch!!
> 
> How can somebody be so .. so .. oblivious. He gets home and his wife is hot, but he does not take the clue that this would be the best time. Then you even help him out getting xyz done, and he still needs to unwind or something from work.
> 
> I see this again is being selfish and controlling. He wants you to initiate sex, but he wants you do do it only when he gives you the go ahead. To boot, he does not see how hurtful it can be to reject you multiple times between the times he is ready.
> 
> His attitude just does not make sense.
> 
> Your t-shirt routine reminds me of a friend that stripped and made himself aroused and then stood on a chair by the front door so that when his wife got home she walked right into his hard member. They had sex though. (she was the one that told the story).
> 
> How could he be so .. callus? :scratchhead:
> 
> Makes me wonder if his T levels vary through the day and that when he comes home from work they are particularly low. My Dr. has told me to test in the morning because that is normally the higher value (and I generally feel much more horny in the morning). Is his job particularly draining? Does he have a long drive home that gets him into an odd mood?
> 
> Truly irritating that he can play the game of "reject and you can't change your mind", and you can't play the same game. Childish.
> 
> Nothing wrong with what you did. You should be able to initiate with your husband this way. In a normal marriage the t-shirt routine would have resulted in sex. Don't feel bad about being sexy for an evening.


Thanks. It really hurt my feelings. I thought I was being spicy and sexy. Instead it just made me feel foolish. It truly makes me never want to initiate or try anything new again. I still often think about the time I crawled onto him naked after he said he wanted to have sex and he completely ignored me. I'm getting tired of putting myself out of a limb then getting shut down. 

It makes me even more upset when he says things about how I never try anything new, or how I don't act sexy enough, etc. 

His job is not draining. It's probably one of the most relaxed, laid back jobs you can have. 

I just want my man to appreciate the sexual being that I am. I don't want to have to hide it like I have been for the past couple weeks. Every time I try to just be me I get scolded and rejected. 

I feel so alone.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know the feeling Curious. Your body is crying out from deep inside to be touched, wanted, and desired yet the one person in the world that should be desiring and touching you isn't interested. It's just so depressing. Then your freaking high libido now only serves to remind you day in and day out how alone you are.

I also was in high spirits earlier in the week and finally initiated again after almost 8 weeks. She got sore quickly before I could finish. I was going to finish the job quickly there, ahem *manually* since she'll never finish me manually or orally, and she just got up and ran off the bathroom leaving me all alone figuratively and literally.

Needless to say, my desire to initiate is long gone again.

Sometimes I don't even feel like bothering to take care of my own horniness anymore. Even in my mid 40s now I can O 3-5 times a day so the O's are short relief.

How is a spouse able to remember any number of things that are not fun, like taking out the trash, or feeding the dog, or that it's been 3 months since the AC filter was changed yet cannot look at me naked in the shower every single night and remember all the conversations about needing to increase sexual frequency, or that I'm a man?

It's like they are telling you "I love you, but not in THAT way."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I know the feeling Curious. Your body is crying out from deep inside to be touched, wanted, and desired yet the one person in the world that should be desiring and touching you isn't interested. It's just so depressing. Then your freaking high libido now only serves to remind you day in and day out how alone you are.


This is a beautiful interpretation of how I feel.



> I also was in high spirits earlier in the week and finally initiated again after almost 8 weeks. She got sore quickly before I could finish. I was going to finish the job quickly there, ahem *manually* since she'll never finish me manually or orally, and she just got up and ran off the bathroom leaving me all alone figuratively and literally.
> 
> Needless to say, my desire to initiate is long gone again.
> 
> Sometimes I don't even feel like bothering to take care of my own horniness anymore. Even in my mid 40s now I can O 3-5 times a day so the O's are short relief.
> 
> How is a spouse able to remember any number of things that are not fun, like taking out the trash, or feeding the dog, or that it's been 3 months since the AC filter was changed yet cannot look at me naked in the shower every single night and remember all the conversations about needing to increase sexual frequency, or that I'm a man?
> 
> It's like they are telling you "I love you, but not in THAT way."


So true. I'm sorry she got up and left you high and dry. How rude.  

Sometimes when I'm horny I have the same feeling, I just wonder, "why even bother?"

Walking around half naked yesterday should have been enough to let him know what I was wanting. To just continue watching tv for hours when he knows I was sitting there beside him waiting, that is a clear signal that he absolutely doesn't care what I want.

Usually I just get upset and sad when he acts this way. But not today. I am MAD. So help me if he does or says something stupid today, I am likely to start roaring and stomping my feet like godzilla.  This is a new emotion for me.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You know what worries me CW? You so open and forthright with your H about sex (and he has no friggin idea what a gift that is gaddammit) and you face rejection and feeling foolish and unwanted far too often. I'm worried you will start to shut down and I really really don't want that to happen to you.

Sometimes, as Karole said, it's just so heartbreaking to read how this man treats you and I want to scream and yell and tell you to cut his ass off, turn off the switch and go colder than a nice cube. While there is some sense to that, because you are making it very easy for him to continue to be controlling and manipulative about sex, it's not who you are!

I don't have any words of wisdom for you right now. Just hugs my dear.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This is a beautiful interpretation of how I feel.
> 
> 
> 
> So true. I'm sorry she got up and left you high and dry. How rude.
> 
> Sometimes when I'm horny I have the same feeling, I just wonder, "why even bother?"
> 
> Walking around half naked yesterday should have been enough to let him know what I was wanting. To just continue watching tv for hours when he knows I was sitting there beside him waiting, that is a clear signal that he absolutely doesn't care what I want.
> 
> Usually I just get upset and sad when he acts this way. But not today. I am MAD. So help me if he does or says something stupid today, I am likely to start roaring and stomping my feet like godzilla.  This is a new emotion for me.


Well, you have every reason to be angry. You showed him your sexy self, and you even told him you wanted sex. And he kicked you to the floor in favor of TV and dinner. Yup, you should be pissed.

So let him know it pisses you off and makes you angry that you are rejected so strongly. Don't let him take the anger away from you. Let it out. And perhaps he will get some of the message.

Do not throw a tantrum, or articles across the room. Just express your anger .. and make him know it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> You know what worries me CW? You so open and forthright with your H about sex (and he has no friggin idea what a gift that is gaddammit) and you face rejection and feeling foolish and unwanted far too often. I'm worried you will start to shut down and I really really don't want that to happen to you.
> 
> Sometimes, as Karole said, it's just so heartbreaking to read how this man treats you and I want to scream and yell and tell you to cut his ass off, turn off the switch and go colder than a nice cube. While there is some sense to that, because you are making it very easy for him to continue to be controlling and manipulative about sex, it's not who you are!
> 
> I don't have any words of wisdom for you right now. Just hugs my dear.


I'm already shutting down.  And that worries me too. 

I used to come right out and tell him I was horny, or how I was thinking about him all day. Now I feel like I dance around him, and spend a lot of time trying to figure out the best way to bring it up, or maybe not bring it up at all. 

I don't tell sexual jokes, I look away when he is changing, I'm always analyzing what he says and trying to decide if I should test the waters. 

I'm trying to repress anything sexual. I've been doing good. (If you can call repressing your personality that.) Up until last night when I folded and finally came out and initiated. Of course I was stomped on, just like I knew I would be. 

I've never been a screamer, or violent. But let me tell you, I'm pretty angry right now. Screaming and crying and throwing a temper tantrum and scaring the living daylights out of him is sounding pretty good right now. 

Honestly I wish I could just flip the switch and go cold. But it's so hard for me. Dang it. It's getting easier though.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Well, you have every reason to be angry. You showed him your sexy self, and you even told him you wanted sex. And he kicked you to the floor in favor of TV and dinner. Yup, you should be pissed.
> 
> So let him know it pisses you off and makes you angry that you are rejected so strongly. Don't let him take the anger away from you. Let it out. And perhaps he will get some of the message.
> 
> Do not throw a tantrum, or articles across the room. Just express your anger .. and make him know it.


I would never throw things. But a tantrum sounds pretty fun. I don't think I've ever gotten visibly mad at anyone before.

I like to bundle up my feeling inside, I'm not even sure I would know how to let them out. lol.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I would never throw things. But a tantrum sounds pretty fun. I don't think I've ever gotten visibly mad at anyone before.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm pretty sure that's a bad sign.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah that is a bad sign.



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've never been a screamer, or violent. But let me tell you, I'm pretty angry right now. Screaming and crying and throwing a temper tantrum and scaring the living daylights out of him is sounding pretty good right now.
> 
> Honestly I wish I could just flip the switch and go cold. But it's so hard for me. Dang it. It's getting easier though.


Go ahead! He could at least be honest and say not interested instead of leaving you dangling all evening, that is the cruelest part of it to me. 

I was telling my husband about your night last night and his response was "I hope I never made you feel that way on the nights I was just clueless" (mine was not that obvious). If you lay it all out and he doesn't feel any remorse I'm not sure he deserves you. Low sexuality or not, there is no reason to be unconcerned with the feelings of the one you love. 

You could also just insist that you read your book together this weekend. Insisting that if he wants a bed partner the two of you need to come to some understanding NOW. No more downplaying your feelings, no more trying to schmooze things over but honesty first with himself then you. You have the weekend. He would call off plans if he was sick, he needs to realize your marriage is sick and dying, there is a cancer eating away at the very fiber of it. You may not be able to fix the whole thing immediately but you need to be able to get back on the same team.

I very well know he may not go for this plan ( I'm really not delussional) but somethings got to be done. If you were near by a bunch of us would just hug you and let you cry on our shoulder if you needed to. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this!


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I would never throw things. But a tantrum sounds pretty fun. I don't think I've ever gotten visibly mad at anyone before.
> 
> I like to bundle up my feeling inside, I'm not even sure I would know how to let them out. lol.


:scratchhead: That's crazy, if you're angry at him tell him you're angry. Don't let him walk all over you. He's not a baby, he can handle it. Challenge him.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Or perhaps you should ask him if he wants an open relationship. Maybe that would scare him enough to want to figure out and then work on the problem.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You're killing me CW. If my wife walked around with nothing but a t-shirt on I would check to see if she's had a stroke because she surely wouldn't be initiating.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry, curious. The t shirt incident does sound very hurtful. And you recently had a good experience with him, so I don't think you should feel stupid for building on it. The huge fight I had with DH in January was over this exact thing. I felt stupid for assuming he was feeling the same thing I was. I had been wanting him that whole day counting the minutes till I got home (this was after a very good experience the night before.) Anyway, I became violently angry, that so rarely happens to me. It seems more effective than crying myself to sleep anyway, which I have done lots of too. 

I am concerned for you that this is causing issues in your self esteem that is going to take years to repair.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No he isn't hard when he initiates. He doesn't get hard until we get started and are playing around for a few minutes.
> 
> *Which makes for many awkward sessions. Usually when sex is started we are both sitting in bed waiting for someone to make the first move. Then we start snuggling, then kissing. There is no passion, no I got to have you now, no I've been waiting for this all day. It's always a cold start. It's hard to get excited about it.*


Truth


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My thoughts are that he's playing head games and is manipulating you.

He *knows* your drive is higher and knows you will come to him time and time again.

He *knows* he is hurting you and for whatever reason wants total control over your sex life. How couldn't he know? Think about that for a bit.

He's not as clueless as I once thought...He *knows* exactly what he's doing!

All of this is intentional IMHO, whether he even realizes it or not. It's sad and infuriating at the same time. No wonder you have mixed emotions, CW. 

After all, he could have just looked after your needs, right? He *didn't* and was acting like a complete a$$! Head games...

It's time to send a strong message and to let him know that this is *unacceptable*. 

If my wife did this to me I'd leave temporarily or permanently if it continued after the initial separation. How you send that message is up to you. But, it needs to be done.

Best,


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

T&T I somewhat agree but if he truly has little sex drive this is very likely seen as a want not a need. Until she can get it thru his thick skull that for her it is a need, not just a want, he will not understand how hurtful his actions are. 

For example if my kid wants another pair of jeans and I wait till the next time we go shopping, though it might upset them it does not leave lasting scars, it is a want that can be taken care of at another time. But say my kid ripped the butt in their only pair of jeans that fit them cause their growing like weeds and I say you'll just have to wear those, I don't feel like going out tonight, now that would be seen as neglect, that is the kind of thing that would be hurtful. There might be times where I am too sick or have no money and that is different but if I just refuse to take care of an actual need cause i don't feel like it, that is neglectful in my opinion.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> T&T I somewhat agree but if he truly has little sex drive this is very likely seen as a want not a need. Until she can get it thru his thick skull that for her it is a need, not just a want, he will not understand how hurtful his actions are.


I think this let's him off the hook far too easily. He is a tease and he does it often. The comments when looking in the mirror, the comments over the game, the actions in this last scenario.

He may think they are wants, but he absolutely knows this is something she wants badly. Yet he continues to tease. As I said, regardless of his own desire, he has real control issues. He using her drive to control the relationship.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

6 days since we've had sex. 

2 weeks since we've kissed because I have a fever blister.

Life is weird. When we are out with friends, or shopping or whatever it seems like everything is normal. But then we get home, and it's weird. 

The minute we get home he sits in front of the tv, so I go read or piddle around. Not more than 2 words are said. No intimacy at all. The no sex hasn't seemed to bother him. He asked me once if _I_ wanted to have sex and I told him no and he hasn't hinted or mentioned anything since. 

When we sleep we lay away from each other. When he showers he reaches out and grabs a towel and wraps it around him before he gets out. I'm not changing in front of him either.

I feel a big distance in between us. I miss sex. But I honestly have no urge to have sex with him. We seem to be holding each other at arms length.

I haven't been able to sleep for days. I'm exhausted. But surprisingly I'm not crying or horribly upset. I feel nothing.  And it scares me.

I know this isn't healthy for our relationship. But I don't have the energy or want to deal with it. I have school until late tonight, and tomorrow is the last day before cranky time. I think going without sex for another week would be good for us.

Last night I asked him to read the book. He said he would tonight while I was at school, and he promised not to skip anything.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I'm sorry, curious. The t shirt incident does sound very hurtful. And you recently had a good experience with him, so I don't think you should feel stupid for building on it. The huge fight I had with DH in January was over this exact thing. I felt stupid for assuming he was feeling the same thing I was. I had been wanting him that whole day counting the minutes till I got home (this was after a very good experience the night before.) Anyway, I became violently angry, that so rarely happens to me. It seems more effective than crying myself to sleep anyway, which I have done lots of too.
> 
> I am concerned for you that this is causing issues in your self esteem that is going to take years to repair.


I know. Every time we have a good day I stupidly assume that it will continue, or that he will remember it the next day. But it never seems to happen. I was feeling good, and got too bold. I know better.

I want to be angry. I considered throwing the tv out of the window last night but decided against it. I really want to get mad and tell him exactly how I feel. But. I just don't even have the urge in me. I feel like I don't care. I don't even want to deal with it. I'm tired of bringing up the same issues over and over. I just want to close my eyes and it all to go away.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I think this let's him off the hook far too easily. He is a tease and he does it often. The comments when looking in the mirror, the comments over the game, the actions in this last scenario.
> 
> He may think they are wants, but he absolutely knows this is something she wants badly. Yet he continues to tease. As I said, regardless of his own desire, he has real control issues. He using her drive to control the relationship.


But if he thinks it is a want, that would describe his comment of her being spoiled or a brat when she throws a "fit"( which is not really a fit but how he might see it).

In the scenerio of the jeans my child wanted, if my child started crying about it, we would probably assume she was just feeling sorry for herself or it was a manipulation tactic. A child that gets their way with a few tears will turn them on quicker next time. I know women who do the exact same thing and the husband feels trapped. If he does not understand this to be a need he will see her reaction as a fit and respond in like. I'm not excusing him but understanding can help a person see how to fix the situation.

Until he gets that it is a need his response will be less than stellar. We will see if he reads the book tonight. If he does it may help. If he won't even read it my concern would be with his lack of trying to understand.

Have you ever acted less than wonderful towards someone. Then later as you learn more about their situation you feel bad because you misjudged their motives. He could be in the position of misjudging her right now and responding like he would to someone whose just pouting cause they want their own way. He could be viewing her the same way your viewing him, as someone whose power hungry. He should know better but still that might be the case.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> But if he thinks it is a want, that would describe his comment of her being spoiled or a brat when she throws a "fit"( which is not really a fit but how he might see it).
> 
> In the scenerio of the jeans my child wanted, if my child started crying about it, we would probably assume she was just feeling sorry for herself or it was a manipulation tactic. A child that gets their way with a few tears will turn them on quicker next time. I know women who do the exact same thing and the husband feels trapped. If he does not understand this to be a need he will see her reaction as a fit and respond in like. I'm not excusing him but understanding can help a person see how to fix the situation.


I don't see this as merely responding to a fit. He actively taunts her with it. He makes comments that tease her when he has no intention of following through. So even if he did view it as a want, it is no excuse for his behavior in continuing to raise sex on his own in this way.



> Until he gets that it is a need his response will be less than stellar. We will see if he reads the book tonight. If he does it may help. If he won't even read it my concern would be with his lack of trying to understand.
> 
> Have you ever acted less than wonderful towards someone. Then later as you learn more about their situation you feel bad because you misjudged their motives. He could be in the position of misjudging her right now and responding like he would to someone whose just pouting cause they want their own way. He could be viewing her the same way your viewing him, as someone whose power hungry. He should know better but still that might be the case.


This may all be correct. And yet at some point, bad behavior is just that. He may have his reasons, but she is not required to keep taking that poor treatment. The danger in looking for a reason is that it all too often excuses the behavior. He is just that way, so expecting better behavior(whether it is more sex or even just him being more sensative to the subject) becomes unreasonable. In the abstract that certainly makes sense (because we can only change ourselves), but in reality, expecting better behavior out of a spouse is pretty dang reasonable. And when they refuse to (regardless of the reason why), you need to assert your boundaries.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think I get where you are coming from and totally agree it can not continue indefinitely. When my husband and I are having a conflict my purpose in trying to understand the situation is so we can solve it, it is never to just excuse the problem and continue letting the situation persist. 

This is where internet forums fail. Without knowing the people it can be hard to see what they are saying. In knowing our family you would see people who don't just live with things (unless absolutely necessary) but instead look for a better way to deal with it. If one thing doesn't work we try another. When dealing with people if they just want to mooch off of our generosity or continue to think they can abuse us or our kids we will cut ties if need be. Life is short. My husband and I both agree that each other and our kids are the only ones we have made a commitment to and do everything in our power to protect and nourish these relationships. 

In real life I didn't talk to people about the LD issues we were facing, I didn't want their negative input on the momentary irritabilities or them telling me that just happens to marriages as you get older. I knew we were working on them, I knew my husband had my best at heart. I guarded the love with a fierceness because I knew that what we had was worth fighting for. 

Once my husband came to the conclusion that things were a problem we started making headway. I do have to say when Curious mentions her feelings it brings back so many memories of feelings for me BUT my husband really wasn't this defensive, my memory has him trying harder to understand my feelings (I think it's accurate). Though we may have had times we were irritated, we never, ever went on not talking, in fact sometimes my husband might have liked me not talking for a little bit. 

My advice is try to understand, if he's making some movement try to be understanding and P….A….T…..I….E…..N…..T. If not get in there and talk again. Make it so he has to make choices, honestly figuring it out needs to be the easier thing, you can't let doing nothing be the easiest thing to do. 

I feel compassion for everyone who is dealing with a spouse who seems to care less about your feelings and pain. Though I would occasionally feel that way for a few hours it never continued on. I can't imagine the pain in my heart just going on and on. At the same time I have great compassion for the LD spouse, for the ones who are just at a loss themselves, who don't know what the problem is or who haven't even figured out there is a problem yet. I know some spouses really don't deserve compassion, some are just self-absorbed jerks but I hate to jump there without knowing.

Tall Average Guy it seems you really do have a sense of compassion for Curious and the heartache she is going thru. I find that admirable even though I may argue with you at times.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> T&T I somewhat agree but if he truly has little sex drive this is very likely seen as a want not a need. Until she can get it thru his thick skull that for her it is a need, not just a want, he will not understand how hurtful his actions are.
> 
> For example if my kid wants another pair of jeans and I wait till the next time we go shopping, though it might upset them it does not leave lasting scars, it is a want that can be taken care of at another time. But say my kid ripped the butt in their only pair of jeans that fit them cause their growing like weeds and I say you'll just have to wear those, I don't feel like going out tonight, now that would be seen as neglect, that is the kind of thing that would be hurtful. There might be times where I am too sick or have no money and that is different but if I just refuse to take care of an actual need cause i don't feel like it, that is neglectful in my opinion.


Maybe, but does he have very little sex drive? He will beg for BJ's on a regular basis. That, to me, says he has a sex drive and wants his needs looked after with little/zero effort on his part. 

CW, as far as grabbing a towel before getting out of the shower, it's possible he's was masturbating in there...Again, looking after himself.

Food for thought. Just sayin :scratchhead:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Maybe, but does he have very little sex drive? He will beg for BJ's on a regular basis. That, to me, says he has a sex drive and wants his needs looked after with little/zero effort on his part.
> *
> CW, as far as grabbing a towel before getting out of the shower, it's possible he's was masturbating in there...Again, looking after himself.
> *
> Food for thought. Just sayin :scratchhead:


Could be either that or emberassed its not doing anything, either way its definnetly odd. :scratchhead: is a perfect smiley for this thread!

As to the first part he's not always asking for BJs anymore. Which could be the thing with the shower? Even with that he could think she's playing games and he's just gonna outlast her.

And just because you don't have a high sex drive doesn't necessarily mean you don't like it. It can mean it isn't a driving force, it isn't a need. It seems to me a hd man would be a lot more motivated to fix this.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> But if he thinks it is a want, that would describe his comment of her being spoiled or a brat when she throws a "fit"( which is not really a fit but how he might see it).
> 
> In the scenerio of the jeans my child wanted, if my child started crying about it, we would probably assume she was just feeling sorry for herself or it was a manipulation tactic. A child that gets their way with a few tears will turn them on quicker next time. I know women who do the exact same thing and the husband feels trapped. If he does not understand this to be a need he will see her reaction as a fit and respond in like.
> 
> He could be in the position of misjudging her right now and responding like he would to someone whose just pouting cause they want their own way. He could be viewing her the same way your viewing him, as someone whose power hungry.


This. 

If I say anything about our sex life, or tell him I'm unhappy he thinks I am the one who is selfish, and that I'm just stirring the pot.

I think he truly believes I am the one with the problem, and that I just throw a fit and get upset until he gives in. So he sees himself as the "loser," the person who always has to compromise.

So while I think he is selfish and manipulating me, I'm sure he is thinking the same thing about me! 

It's hard to work with.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't see this as merely responding to a fit. He actively taunts her with it. He makes comments that tease her when he has no intention of following through. So even if he did view it as a want, it is no excuse for his behavior in continuing to raise sex on his own in this way.
> 
> This may all be correct. And yet at some point, bad behavior is just that. He may have his reasons, but she is not required to keep taking that poor treatment. The danger in looking for a reason is that it all too often excuses the behavior. He is just that way, so expecting better behavior(whether it is more sex or even just him being more sensative to the subject) becomes unreasonable. In the abstract that certainly makes sense (because we can only change ourselves), but in reality, expecting better behavior out of a spouse is pretty dang reasonable. And when they refuse to (regardless of the reason why), you need to assert your boundaries.


You are correct as well. He handles it all very badly. I try to give him the reason of a doubt and be patient, but sometimes he just needs to own up to his bad behavior. Just because he has a low drive does not mean he has to be rude, taunt me, give me hope. 

Just like if he knows he doesn't want to have sex he could just tell me no, instead of saying maybe and dragging it out all night where I'm wondering if we are going to or not. That is cruel.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> CW, as far as grabbing a towel before getting out of the shower, it's possible he's was masturbating in there...Again, looking after himself.
> 
> Food for thought. Just sayin :scratchhead:


That passed my mind, but I have asked him on several occasions and he swears up and down that he doesn't masturbate... ever. He did in the past, very rarely, but he says he just doesn't anymore. I believe him. He seemed honest about it. Although I don't see how he can go without for a week or more. I sure can't. 

I also peek on him in the shower,  including that day. Nothing was going on. 

I think it's just another of his manipulation tactics. I turned him down for sex, so now I'm not allowed to see him sort of thing.


----------



## okeydokie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm by no means a LD person, but I am LD for my wife. She has seen to that and it seems to be her preference.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He gave me a peck yesterday for the first time in 2 weeks, and he spooned me in his sleep. 

Another reason I don't think he has masturbated is because I could *cough* feel _him_ while he was sleeping, and usually he doesn't have night time stiffness unless it's been a good long while.

This morning was the first time in over a month that he did not get out my coffee and leave me a note. I knew it was going to come to an end eventually, but I'll admit it made me sad. Maybe he just forgot, who knows.

He did read 1/4 of the book last night while I was gone. I had asked him nicely and he didn't even argue with me. Although last night he did complain that he hates reading. But he will finish it I'm sure.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He gave me a peck yesterday for the first time in 2 weeks, and he spooned me in his sleep.
> 
> Another reason I don't think he has masturbated is because I could *cough* feel _him_ while he was sleeping, and usually he doesn't have night time stiffness unless it's been a good long while.
> 
> This morning was the first time in over a month that he did not get out my coffee and leave me a note. I knew it was going to come to an end eventually, but I'll admit it made me sad. Maybe he just forgot, who knows.
> 
> He did read 1/4 of the book last night while I was gone. I had asked him nicely and he didn't even argue with me. Although last night he did complain that he hates reading. But he will finish it I'm sure.



Maybe he was mad that's why he didn't leave the note


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



spinsterdurga said:


> Maybe he was mad that's why he didn't leave the note


That's possible. 

I guess I will find out tomorrow.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He did read some of the book and plans to finish it, that is a step. My husband thinks he just isn't to the point of realizing/admitting it yet. My husband also said last night that there were times he thought I was being unreasonable but now he can see that I wasn't. I told him that's okay I thoughtthe same thing 

If he is not having regular morning wood that is a most definite sign of low T. He is making steps be patient. 

Maybe I'll start up a collection to get you a good vibrator.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> He did read some of the book and plans to finish it, that is a step. My husband thinks he just isn't to the point of realizing/admitting it yet. My husband also said last night that there were times he thought I was being unreasonable but now he can see that I wasn't. I told him that's okay I thoughtthe same thing
> 
> If he is not having regular morning wood that is a most definite sign of low T. He is making steps be patient.
> 
> Maybe I'll start up a collection to get you a good vibrator.


Yes. I am glad he is willing to read the book. I'm just not sure if it will help or he will listen to any of it or just blow it off. We shall see. 

:rofl: I'd love to get one. But husband is still not on board, and I still haven't taken the leap to get one without his "permission." I'm sure I will eventually.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. I am glad he is willing to read the book. I'm just not sure if it will help or he will listen to any of it or just blow it off. We shall see.
> 
> :rofl: I'd love to get one. But husband is still not on board, and I still haven't taken the leap to get one without his "permission." I'm sure I will eventually.


Get yourselves a vibrator! Take control of your sexuality.

If, like me, you can masturbate and have orgasms and still be up for sex then your vibrator use will not impact his needs at all. Thus, he is controlling something he has no business controlling.

If, like other women, having an orgasm or two will put you off sex for a day or so, then this is a grey area and you would need to ensure that your vibrator use is timed so it likely won't interfere with his desire or need for sex.

Get yourself a vibrator and make a loud and clear statement that your desire and need for sex will not be ignored or controlled.

I recommend this dildo, it can be warmed up which makes a very nice experience.

Vamp : Earth Erotics, Sustain Your Passion

And of course the we vibe. A staple for all healthy girls sex toy box!

We-Vibe II 100% Silicone Vibrator - $79.20

This one is inexpensive, travels (and hides away) very easily and give his carpal tunnel a chance to rest.

Fingo Nubby Finger Vibrator - Vibrators - adameve.com


Keep in mind, all of these sex toys can be used solo or together. This is YOUR sexuality. YOU own it. YOU take care of it. YOU are responsible for it. Do not fall into the codependent trap of allowing yourself to suffer so that he will notice and feel bad, then step up to mitigate his guilt. That is a perfect example of covert contracting. 

Buy the damn toys and make yourself happy!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I honestly don't know how fast I would be up for sex after an orgasm. I've never had two in one day.  

But I'm sure I would still have sex with him if he wanted it, and for some strange reason I didn't. I'm still horny the same days I masturbate now.

Not to worry Anon. I have been looking at them.  They all just look too scary and big for me or just silly. I would want something smaller, and not too strong. Like a fairy wand? 

Also just because I don't have a vibrator doesn't mean I'm not taking care of my own needs.... frequently. 

They just look a little intimidating, so I'm having trouble picking one.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Also just because I don't have a vibrator doesn't mean I'm not taking care of my own needs.... frequently.


But does he know this? It is important that he does.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> But does he know this? It is important that he does.


No he does not. He has never asked.

I wouldn't lie. If he asked me I would tell him. But I feel no need to bring it up. It shouldn't matter to him.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Pick the last one then. It slips over your finger tip with a nice but not too strong vibrator bullet. AWESOME!!!!

Getting yourself a toy is a declaration of sexual independence. Get it, make yourself happy. I have that one but the only time I've used is when my husband is actually doing it. I like insertables.....


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The one I am leaning the most towards is the Shibari Halo.

Amazon.com: Shibari Halo, 10-speed, Wireless, Waterproof, Power Wand Massager (Purple): Health & Personal Care

Anyone use it before?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have this one...
Amazon.com: Magic Wand Massager With Wand Essentials Bonus Massage Attachment: Health & Personal Care

It's too powerful for my lady parts so I must be one of the few who actually uses it to massage other body parts.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I have this one...
> Amazon.com: Magic Wand Massager With Wand Essentials Bonus Massage Attachment: Health & Personal Care
> 
> It's too powerful for my lady parts so I must be one of the few who actually uses it to massage other body parts.


Oh wow, they can be used elsewhere :rofl:

With 10 settings, you would think it would work. Guess it was designed by an engineer that led a sheltered life.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh, the one you can't use "there" is only two speeds, and is powered by 110v. So I can now see how it can be too powerful.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I have this one...
> Amazon.com: Magic Wand Massager With Wand Essentials Bonus Massage Attachment: Health & Personal Care
> 
> It's too powerful for my lady parts so I must be one of the few who actually uses it to massage other body parts.


That's why I liked the looks of the Shibari Halo. It's battery operated, so hopefully not quite as strong.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is the first one I got
Amazon.com: Durex Play Allure Personal Massager 1 ct (Quantity of 1): Health & Personal Care

The things I liked about it, it can be very gentle or not (adjustable), waterproof (easier to clean), and pretty inexpensive. It takes AA batteries which means you can buy the jumbo packs of batteries anywhere. Things I personally won't get are ones with odd batteries, non adjustable strength, and ones I can't stick under running water and clean.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I like that one too the2ofus! 

I have the same wants as you. AA batteries, washable, and adjustable strength. 

It's cheaper too. Maybe a good beginner to try out.

I wonder if it will be strong enough. The reviews aren't too good on it.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

May I suggest the WeVibe Tango. Bought it for my wife and she loves it!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It can go from whisper mode on up, not super strong but it has a nice vibration to it, some are just too buzzy, strong or gentle buzzy is annoying to me. It is still one of my favorites even though I have others.

I also like Lelo's stuff, they are rechargeable and quite a bit more expensive.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Don't over think it .. just GET ONE.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> It can go from whisper mode on up, not super strong but it has a nice vibration to it, some are just too buzzy, strong or gentle buzzy is annoying to me. It is still one of my favorites even though I have others.
> 
> I also like Lelo's stuff, they are rechargeable and quite a bit more expensive.


My wife has something from Lelo's. I think it was around $200. She loves it though, and it's nice to look at unlike some of the other scary looking crazy ones haha.


----------



## FizzBomb

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> My wife has something from Lelo's. I think it was around $200. She loves it though, and it's nice to look at unlike some of the other scary looking crazy ones haha.


Some of them frighten the heck outta me. :lol:
Curious Wife I like a good ole plain dildo - no vibe action. I think all that vibrating would be too much for me. I only really use it in foreplay with my husband.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MeatTrain~ Amazon has Lelo stuff for quite a bit less, and it still has the lelo guarantee. I used Christmas money which makes it a little interesting when people ask you what you got with the money they gave you!:rofl:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks for all the suggestions guys!  

Money is tight, but I think I might cash in my change jar and see what I can afford. lol. 

Some are very scary looking. Especially the penis shaped ones, and the clear ones.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you!


Pharrell Williams - Happy (Official Music Video) - YouTube


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'll try to keep a long story short.

We had sex last night. Great, great sex. I love it when it's over and I just fall face first into the bed, panting and can't get up for a good 15 minutes. lol. He always asks me if I'm dead.

We discussed what happened last Thursday, and it turned out to be a misunderstanding and miscommunication on both our parts. 

I'll admit. I've been hurt so many times, I am quick to jump to conclusions and quick to take things as rejection. That is wrong of me. He apologized for inadvertently hurting my feelings, and sending me wrong signals. I apologized for assuming things I shouldn't, and promised to try to be more patient. 

I told him his yes needs to mean yes and his no needs to mean no. No more of this maybe crap. 

He has been reading the book, and he talked about some of the things he has learned. So I am glad he is reading it and getting something out of it. 

We both need to communicate better instead of retreating away from each other and just stewing on it. We both like to hold feelings inside and it is not healthy. 

I feel much better. Hopefully we can spend this week reading the book and discussing our relationship and what we need to work on.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Great but you still need to get your own toy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Great but you still need to get your own toy.


Yes ma'am.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We both need to communicate better instead of retreating away from each other and just stewing on it. We both like to hold feelings inside and it is not healthy.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah! That sounds like progress!

I agree you should still order your toy!


----------



## Convection

Okay, Curious. I will the Debbie-downer here: who initiated last night? Did you and he responded? Or did he come to you because he hadn't gotten any lately? Not trying to undercut your good vibes, just suggesting a bit of caution. You've gone through this cycle several times, where there is a good interlude and then he reverts to form. Optimism is good and I agree, keep communicating, but you need to see a sustained period of improvement - say, several months - to really believe you have turned the corner. 

And yes, do what the ladies are telling you. Get your own toy, loud and proud. No adult should ever let another hold their sexual release hostage - not even that person's spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Convection said:


> Okay, Curious. I will the Debbie-downer here: who initiated last night? Did you and he responded? Or did he come to you because he hadn't gotten any lately? Not trying to undercut your good vibes, just suggesting a bit of caution. You've gone through this cycle several times, where there is a good interlude and then he reverts to form. Optimism is good and I agree, keep communicating, but you need to see a sustained period of improvement - say, several months - to really believe you have turned the corner.
> 
> And yes, do what the ladies are telling you. Get your own toy, loud and proud. No adult should ever let another person hold their sexual release hostage - not even that person's spouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh I agree. We have done this destructive cycle many many times. I am tired of it. And I told him so yesterday. I'm sure this pattern will continue to repeat. But I'm hoping each time it does we learn something from it, and continue to work towards something better. I don't think this is even close to the end.

The only good thing about the cycle is that is does make us communicate. 

As for initiating. He asked me if I wanted to have sex. There was no pressure. When I told him no, not really. He cited that the book suggested it was a good idea, and why. And he said if I wanted to we could, but he didn't beg or mention anything about him needing it. 

This was after a lengthy snuggle, and some making out, after a 2 week wait. 

We discussed it, and how I was feeling. I still wasn't decided, so we took a shower together and said we will see how it goes. I went back and forth, but in the end it didn't seem like it would hurt anything. He was more than generous to my needs, so I don't regret it. It also put us both in a better mood.

But no. I don't think he is a "changed man" overnight.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you. This sounds very good in the sense it was not begging, or one asking and the other giving in. It sounds like it was something you both wanted, and both participated in with gusto.

Communication about things like this is hard, it cuts close to the heart and it is a sensitive topic. But I really encourage you to work on this right now, while you guys are new to marriage. If you work really hard, who knows, you may settle into a good sex life that is a good compromise for you guys. I really hope so.

Have fun reading together!

And yup, get your own toy.


----------



## blukitten

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ok so I havent read all of the posts here but did read the original and the last few. I was going to post my own thread but this one sounds like it is the right place for me to post my issue. As it is a similar situation.

So, I have a LD husband and I am very, very HD. He wasnt alway LD and in the beginning of our relationship he kept up with me very well and we have had an excellent sex life for atleast the first 12 years of our marriage. We have gone through periods of issue but never like it is now. We have done just about everything in the way of sexual experiences. We have several toys and when we do have sex I have no issues reaching multiple O's. However, in the last couple of years he has been lasting less and less time, we used to go at it for hours but now Im lucky if we get in 10-30 min depending on the day and it is usually more like 10 min. We used to have sex everyday, several times a day. Now it is once a month. I have complained to him several times that I "need" to have sex more often than we do. I understand he has had some issues with medications he has been on, but he isnt on them anymore and it still hasnt improved. I try not to nag him about it because I know that will probably make it worse. But even now when he does initiate it, I dont like doing it with him because it is boring and he always does the same thing for foreplay, its like a routine now for what he does. I do initiate or try to but he is often asleep before me. When I do initiate it he still does the same things, I try to change it up by doind different positions and stuff, buying lingerie, etc but that doesnt work well either. I have even attended those pleasure parties and bought some new stuff we dont have to try to make it better. 
I have been turned down by him occasionally, at which point I make some snide comment about how I am going to pose the question on facebook, how many men would turn down their wives for sex when she is............
I am very frustrated by this and really do need the sex back in my life. It is frustrating beyond beleif and I really dont understand how we can go from having such a good sex life to now having a sex life that sucks. Any advice on why he could have such a LD now? Also on how he can last longer? We used to do it multiple times, now only once and he says its "tired" cant get it back up or whatever. :scratchhead:


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

bulkitten,

Ouch, How can it go from that extreme to nearly dead? There must be more clues, and there must have been something that really changed it. You might start your own thread so that the posters here can ask specific questions to try to find out what happened and offer some suggestions.


----------



## blukitten

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

fightforher-

I think I will do that


thanks


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So how is the book reading going? Any further progress? I like to think there is hope for all of us (although realizing that may be wildly optimistic).


----------



## Laralie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Seriously, get yourself some toys! You deserve it girl. Are there any adult stores near you?


----------



## GusPolinski

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Laralie said:


> Seriously, get yourself some toys! You deserve it girl. Are there any adult stores near you?


*cough* Adam and Eve Adult Store - Shop Erotic Adult Toys and Novelties


----------



## Laralie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know Gus, but I just love browsing the adult shops.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Mini Winachi Massager - Vibrators - adameve.com

This one seems good. Cheap enough where if I don't like it it's no big deal, and pretty good reviews. 

We haven't had time to read anymore of the book yet, sadly. 

There are no adult stores around here, so online shopping is only option.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So when are you gonna buy it?!? 

I thought you might find this thread interesting, there is a good update at the end. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/50125-note-my-wife-3.html#post8599306


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'll be buying it soon.  Crazy busy and stressed right now because of semester end, but school is just about over.

I'll check out that thread, thanks!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sharpen the pitch forks and light the torches Anon. 

I did something naughty yesterday. 

We were to meet husband's parents at their house. Well we got there a couple minutes before them, so we sat in the car and made out. Then we got into the house and made out some more. Things were getting hot. Then husband asked for a blow job.... and well. 

I wasn't going to tell, but I feel it's best to be honest. 

Go ahead. Throw the tomatoes. 

In hind sight I probably shouldn't have gave in. But it sounded exciting and fun being dirty in his old house with the prospect of being caught. (They walked in less than a minute after we were done.)

I hadn't gave him one since his birthday, 2 months ago. And I miss it. So I caved. I'm conflicted on if I regret it or not. I regret breaking my "no blow job rule." But it was pretty hot and fun, and it sure cheered him up. 

He promised that he would make it up to me, in anyway I wanted. (Not that his promises mean anything. ) But at least I can call him out on it, when he opens up the mail and finds my vibrator. :rofl:

Yeah so, I'll go hide under a rock now. Please don't kill me.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Then husband asked for a blow job.... and well.


Did you blow him near the baby grand piano? That would have been hot.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'll be buying it soon.  Crazy busy and stressed right now because of semester end, but school is just about over.
> 
> I'll check out that thread, thanks!


You might want to try out the Original Magic Wand Hitachi Magic Wand Massager - Electric Vibrator Sex Toy - Adam & Eve

Never tried it - (ironically, I would love for my wife to try one, but she refuses and your husband tried to bar you from using one) but check the reviews at Adam and Eve and Good Vibrations - most people love it.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Sharpen the pitch forks and light the torches Anon.
> 
> I did something naughty yesterday.
> 
> We were to meet husband's parents at their house. Well we got there a couple minutes before them, so we sat in the car and made out. Then we got into the house and made out some more. Things were getting hot. Then husband asked for a blow job.... and well.
> 
> I wasn't going to tell, but I feel it's best to be honest.
> 
> Go ahead. Throw the tomatoes.
> 
> In hind sight I probably shouldn't have gave in. But it sounded exciting and fun being dirty in his old house with the prospect of being caught. (They walked in less than a minute after we were done.)
> 
> I hadn't gave him one since his birthday, 2 months ago. And I miss it. So I caved. I'm conflicted on if I regret it or not. I regret breaking my "no blow job rule." But it was pretty hot and fun, and it sure cheered him up.
> 
> He promised that he would make it up to me, in anyway I wanted. (Not that his promises mean anything. ) But at least I can call him out on it, when he opens up the mail and finds my vibrator. :rofl:
> 
> Yeah so, I'll go hide under a rock now. Please don't kill me.


I am not going to throw flaming arrows. But I will ask the question: do you feel satisfied? After all, most of this thread is based on the fact that you satisfy him, and he does not satisfy you and leaves you hanging. So, do you feel satisfied? Perhaps you can take a little time to answer because he has not had his turn to give you something back. But if he does not give you anything back after a while, and you feel unsatisfied, then that is a problem. But if he gives back to you, and you end up feeling satisfied .. then all is good again I think.

Oh, and order the vibrator .. the sooner the better


----------



## FizzBomb

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I am not going to throw flaming arrows. But I will ask the question: *do you feel satisfied? After all, most of this thread is based on the fact that you satisfy him, and he does not satisfy you and leaves you hanging. So, do you feel satisfied? Perhaps you can take a little time to answer because he has not had his turn to give you something back.* But if he does not give you anything back after a while, and you feel unsatisfied, then that is a problem. But if he gives back to you, and you end up feeling satisfied .. then all is good again I think.
> 
> Oh, and order the vibrator .. the sooner the better


Totally agree.

I was thinking the same thing. . and what about you, will he cheer you up too? Why exactly did you feel the need to 'cheer him up' as you say? NOT judging you Curious Wife but I think you need to ask yourself why you needed to do this. Wasn't he cheered up enough? Would it hurt him to just be left in a horny worked up state like you? Did you also need cheering up? What do you think would have happened if you had just left it at the kissing stage? Would he have been ticked off at you?

Just some questions to reflect upon. BTW, did he get you off later?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He promised that he would make it up to me, in anyway I wanted. (Not that his promises mean anything. ) But at least I can call him out on it, when he opens up the mail and finds my vibrator. :rofl:.


:smthumbup::rofl:
Then you better not delay your buying too long so it's still fresh in his memory.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



FizzBomb said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> I was thinking the same thing. . and what about you, will he cheer you up too? Why exactly did you feel the need to 'cheer him up' as you say? NOT judging you Curious Wife but I think you need to ask yourself why you needed to do this. Wasn't he cheered up enough? Would it hurt him to just be left in a horny worked up state like you? Did you also need cheering up? What do you think would have happened if you had just left it at the kissing stage? Would he have been ticked off at you?
> 
> Just some questions to reflect upon. BTW, did he get you off later?



I did not feel the need to cheer him up. I gave him a blow job because it was in the moment. Things were hot, and passionate and it just seemed like the natural thing to do I guess. It sounded fun, and I did enjoy it. 

I will admit thinking back I am a little jealous that he had his fun, and I was left hanging. But if he "makes it up to me" then it's all good. If he doesn't then I'm going to confront him, and I will use it as a good example to teach him why he is not getting anymore blow jobs.

He left a note this morning hinting about sex tonight. I'm excited, sort of. :scratchhead: The weird thing about me is if we go too long without sex, such as this week then I don't feel like having sex with him. I get cranky, and don't feel connected enough to have sex. I have to try to replace negative thoughts with positive ones. Literately I go over phrases in my head like, "sex is fun, sex is good, he wants to have sex with you, etc." I've been doing it for the last couple days. Otherwise I will be so full of resentment from not having sex I will not enjoy it.

Once I have sex, then I'm all good and back to loving it. Odd.

Thinking about it, If I told him no, yes he probably would have been upset with me. Maybe told me I was being selfish, or that he deserves one. Just guessing from past experience.


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That was very sweet of you. (as long as you get your turn also)

Next time maybe you ask for oral sex at some random time or place and let him reciprocate.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



usmarriedguy said:


> That was very sweet of you. (as long as you get your turn also)
> 
> Next time maybe you ask for oral sex at some random time or place and let him reciprocate.


I would take too long to do it in public. 

I will ask for it at home this week sometime though, maybe for a longer session. I've still never had an oral O.

His friend is staying the night Friday and Saturday, and all day Sunday. So I doubt I get much "loving" this week.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Sharpen the pitch forks and light the torches Anon.
> 
> I did something naughty yesterday.
> 
> We were to meet husband's parents at their house. Well we got there a couple minutes before them, so we sat in the car and made out. Then we got into the house and made out some more. Things were getting hot. Then husband asked for a blow job.... and well.
> 
> I wasn't going to tell, but I feel it's best to be honest.
> 
> Go ahead. Throw the tomatoes.
> 
> In hind sight I probably shouldn't have gave in. But it sounded exciting and fun being dirty in his old house with the prospect of being caught. (They walked in less than a minute after we were done.)
> 
> I hadn't gave him one since his birthday, 2 months ago. And I miss it. So I caved. I'm conflicted on if I regret it or not. I regret breaking my "no blow job rule." But it was pretty hot and fun, and it sure cheered him up.
> 
> He promised that he would make it up to me, in anyway I wanted. (Not that his promises mean anything. ) But at least I can call him out on it, when he opens up the mail and finds my vibrator. :rofl:
> 
> Yeah so, I'll go hide under a rock now. Please don't kill me.


You're allowed to screw up some times, just not often. 

So...has he returned the favor yet?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> You're allowed to screw up some times, just not often.
> 
> So...has he returned the favor yet?


Whew. You didn't kill me. 

No he has not done anything sexual since, but he did hint that maybe tonight is the night.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> His friend is staying the night Friday and Saturday, and all day Sunday. So I doubt I get much "loving" this week.



Do you mind me asking why?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Whew. You didn't kill me.
> 
> No he has not done anything sexual since, but he did hint that maybe tonight is the night.


Excellent, send a text message telling him you will be playing it cool tonight and his job is to seduce you and overcome any misgivings you might show with regard to having sex. Also tell him his job is to rock your wold so well that you walk funny tomorrow!

Go on now...send the message to give him time to mentally prepare himself. He's going to have to put your first tonight so he may need to read up on that...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will admit thinking back I am a little jealous that he had his fun, and I was left hanging. But if he "makes it up to me" then it's all good.* If he doesn't then I'm going to confront him, and I will use it as a good example to teach him why he is not getting anymore blow jobs.*


Good, that will help you from falling back into the giving BJ without return syndrome. And will help you from getting whacked by AP in the future  


TheCuriousWife said:


> He left a note this morning hinting about sex tonight. I'm excited, sort of. :scratchhead: *The weird thing about me is if we go too long without sex, such as this week then I don't feel like having sex with him.* I get cranky, and don't feel connected enough to have sex. I have to try to replace negative thoughts with positive ones. Literately I go over phrases in my head like, "sex is fun, sex is good, he wants to have sex with you, etc." I've been doing it for the last couple days. Otherwise I will be so full of resentment from not having sex I will not enjoy it.
> 
> Once I have sex, then I'm all good and back to loving it. Odd.


I can relate to that one as well. After a while, the desire changes into something else. It is still there, but it feels different, like there is something blocking. In any event, when this happens, I simply try to drop everything, clear my mind, and spend time with her and in a little while I am finding that we are reconnecting and touching again. The important part, is to make the effort rather than let it slip more days.

So, you got a note again. Too bad it is not a guarantee. In fact past experience has suggested that it is far from a guarantee. And a three day "friend over" drought is coming your way.

So, go home early, prepare a light dinner, then kill the power to the house so the TV and video games will not work. Set up a few candles for light. Unplug the phone and turn off the cell phones. Then hold up the note and scream "DO ME NOW!"

Just kidding. But seriously, take a little charge this time and just tell him that you really want him to take care of you now, and he can come back to the video games, and TV later. You might even let him know that taking care of your needs before the video games means a lot to you because it makes you feel you are a higher priority than some video game. You could remind him that you placed his pleasure over the risk of being caught, so he should place your pleasure over a video game.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



spinsterdurga said:


> Do you mind me asking why?


Yes. Why to both. Why is the friend staying with you and why does this mean you won't get lucky?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Excellent, send a text message telling him you will be playing it cool tonight and his job is to seduce you and overcome any misgivings you might show with regard to having sex. Also tell him his job is to rock your wold so well that you walk funny tomorrow!
> 
> Go on now...send the message to give him time to mentally prepare himself. He's going to have to put your first tonight so he may need to read up on that...


Have you sent a sexy text to him in the past? I don't recall you doing that.

I just thought I would let you know that having a sexy text from my wife would be absolutely wonderful. I would re-read it over and over and take a picture of it and just rub it all over me. My point? Don't be shy.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When his friend comes over he does not allow any affection. Screwy as it sounds. Recall the hand holding incident. 

Personally, if you have a friend that you share as much as three days of your week with, then why can't you be yourself in front of your friend and show your friend that you love your wife? So is this a friend that he shows only a certain personality to? If so, is this really a good friend? I would think that a good friend would allow you to be who you are, and would understand loving between married people .. especially newlyweds. 

My advice to him is either find a new friend, or let this friend see a loving husband.

And if the walls are too thin to hold back the screams of passion, put some music on to cover up the sounds of pleasure.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I can relate to that one as well. After a while, the desire changes into something else. It is still there, but it feels different, like there is something blocking. In any event, when this happens, I simply try to drop everything, clear my mind, and spend time with her and in a little while I am finding that we are reconnecting and touching again. The important part, is to make the effort rather than let it slip more days.


Yes, me too. I try just to keep the negative thoughts at bay, and try to spend some time with him, snuggling and reconnecting before sexual things happen. 



> So, you got a note again. Too bad it is not a guarantee. In fact past experience has suggested that it is far from a guarantee. And a three day "friend over" drought is coming your way.
> 
> So, go home early, prepare a light dinner, then kill the power to the house so the TV and video games will not work. Set up a few candles for light. Unplug the phone and turn off the cell phones. Then hold up the note and scream "DO ME NOW!"
> 
> Just kidding. But seriously, take a little charge this time and just tell him that you really want him to take care of you now, and he can come back to the video games, and TV later. You might even let him know that taking care of your needs before the video games means a lot to you because it makes you feel you are a higher priority than some video game. You could remind him that you placed his pleasure over the risk of being caught, so he should place your pleasure over a video game.


Well we texted a bit, and he wanted to attack me when he gets home from work today. But unfortunately we have some house projects that have to be done this evening before it gets dark. So I asked him if I can move our "date" until later in the evening. 

Oh well. Maybe while we are working on the house we can banter, and flirt a little bit, and get things pre heated.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Yes. Why to both. Why is the friend staying with you and why does this mean you won't get lucky?


His best friend is staying because it is his birthday, and the friend recently got dumped and lives alone, not really any other friends or family, so husband is having him for the weekend. 

That's fine. I'll play friendly wife. 

Husband wanted to get tons of junk food, but I'm sure his friend eats plenty of that at home, so I'll be cooking a nice dinner, and we'll be baking his friend a cake. I do feel sorry for the poor guy. He is extremely lonely, and I'd hate to have no one to celebrate my birthday with or even acknowledge me. So we are kind of acting as his family. 

I won't get lucky because husband sleeps on the couch with said friend, and because there is no way in heck that husband would be sexual with me, with his friend in the other room. I must say I would feel uncomfortable too. Our bedroom is right next to the living room, and not very good sound proofing.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Have you sent a sexy text to him in the past? I don't recall you doing that.
> 
> I just thought I would let you know that having a sexy text from my wife would be absolutely wonderful. I would re-read it over and over and take a picture of it and just rub it all over me. My point? Don't be shy.



Yes. I've sent him plenty of sexy texts. I've kind of given up on them though because I usually just get a, "haha, eh, maybe, okay, etc."

Oh I forgot to mention, husband did read a little more of the book last night while I was gone.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> When his friend comes over he does not allow any affection. Screwy as it sounds. Recall the hand holding incident.
> 
> Personally, if you have a friend that you share as much as three days of your week with, then why can't you be yourself in front of your friend and show your friend that you love your wife? So is this a friend that he shows only a certain personality to? If so, is this really a good friend? I would think that a good friend would allow you to be who you are, and would understand loving between married people .. especially newlyweds.
> 
> My advice to him is either find a new friend, or let this friend see a loving husband.
> 
> And if the walls are too thin to hold back the screams of passion, put some music on to cover up the sounds of pleasure.


BINGO. When husband is around friend, affection to me is minimal. 

That is around all people though, not just this one friend. We've went over this before. Things are better than when we first started, but still a long way to go.

That stems from when we were younger. We started dating in high school in an extremely religious and strict group of friends. Boys and girls weren't suppose to like each other.  We actually kept our dating a secret for a year or two. And because of avoiding problems and ridicule in the group of friends and their parents we did not do any type of displays of affection, even after we "came out."

We are married now, and I still feel awkward kissing or being flirty around our friends. The first time people saw us kiss was on our wedding day, believe it or not. (We were pretty secretive about the years of dry humping, and making out. haha.) 

Long story short, there is some baggage there from childhood. We realize it is not right, and sounds crazy, but it's hard to undo years of habits. Work in progress!


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I would take too long to do it in public.
> 
> I will ask for it at home this week sometime though, maybe for a longer session. I've still never had an oral O.
> 
> His friend is staying the night Friday and Saturday, and all day Sunday. So I doubt I get much "loving" this week.


Well you get to choose the time and place but I would think that you can always finish later even if there is not time to go all the way.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *His best friend is staying because it is his birthday, and the friend recently got dumped and lives alone, not really any other friends or family, so husband is having him for the weekend. *
> 
> That's fine. I'll play friendly wife.
> 
> Husband wanted to get tons of junk food, but I'm sure his friend eats plenty of that at home, so I'll be cooking a nice dinner, and we'll be baking his friend a cake. I do feel sorry for the poor guy. He is extremely lonely, and I'd hate to have no one to celebrate my birthday with or even acknowledge me. So we are kind of acting as his family.
> 
> I won't get lucky because *husband sleeps on the couch with said friend*, and because there is no way in heck that husband would be sexual with me, with his friend in the other room. I must say I would feel uncomfortable too. Our bedroom is right next to the living room, and not very good sound proofing.


I don't get the birthday thing. Yeah, it's nice if someone notices, but really who cares. You didn't die for a whole year, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

For the love of God, tell me I read that last part wrong. Your H is extremely weird. And if my friend was sleeping in the next room I'd make sure the sex was extra loud that night and ask him how he slept the next morning.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know at least two dozen friends that are mid twenties - thirties that have never been on a date. That's how bad the pressure, teaching, and guilt was.



Our families didn't buy into that crap thankfully, and were fully supportive of us. But we still were very careful around the rest of our peers.

And just for reference, our friend's parents have realized all the problems they caused with the boys and girls should hate each other motto.

Now many of them are the complete opposite with their younger kids, and one of the girls I know is getting married in a couple months, at age 17. (face palm) The people have some serious issues about relationships I tell you. *end of rant*


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> I don't get the birthday thing. Yeah, it's nice if someone notices, but really who cares. You didn't die for a whole year, CONGRATULATIONS!!!


That's hilarious. :lol:

I agree. But really I think the birthday thing is just an excuse for him being here. It's not uncommon. He stays the night already at least 2 times a month I'd say. But he's never stayed for two days before. 

He's staying extra because we have a graduation to go to, and mother's day. They think they won't get enough time to do all the stuff they want to do. AKA play video games, and work on some house projects.



> For the love of God, tell me I read that last part wrong. Your H is extremely weird. And if my friend was sleeping in the next room I'd make sure the sex was extra loud that night and ask him how he slept the next morning.


Nope. You read correctly. 

It is weird to have two grown men staying up all night playing video games, and sleeping together on a pull out sofa. (Separate blankets and such.)

At least this friend is more like a brother. He lived with my husband at his parents for a long while. So he is like family, and husband's parents call the friend their kid. So honestly it's not creepy or anything, (even though it does sound that way) they just seem like brothers.

They have been close like that for years and years, so I guess I've just grown used to it.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't get me wrong, I've slept in the same bed with my close friends. I don't think it ever happened after we were out of high school, but I could be wrong. It's not as weird as it sounded at first to me. The weird part is that he would choose to sleep there over sleeping with his wife.

Hang in there Curious. I really hope your H grows up and starts taking care of his wonderful wife. He has no idea how good he has it. Don't let this change the person you are. Leave before you allow that. There are too few HD women already, lol. Don't let one wither and die. 

The part earlier about after a while you don't want sex. It's a connection thing. You still want sex, but you don't particularly want it with someone who's made you feel like sh1t for the last week or two. Been there.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Don't get me wrong, I've slept in the same bed with my close friends. I don't think it ever happened after we were out of high school, but I could be wrong. It's not as weird as it sounded at first to me. The weird part is that he would choose to sleep there over sleeping with his wife.
> 
> Hang in there Curious. I really hope your H grows up and starts taking care of his wonderful wife. He has no idea how good he has it. Don't let this change the person you are. Leave before you allow that. There are too few HD women already, lol. Don't let one wither and die.
> 
> The part earlier about after a while you don't want sex. It's a connection thing. You still want sex, but you don't particularly want it with someone who's made you feel like sh1t for the last week or two. Been there.



Okay. I just wanted to make sure I was clear that there was nothing creepy going on between them. My husband is all man. lol

I think I might insist that he sleep in bed with me one of the nights. I see no reason that I should have to sleep alone, just because his friend is here. His friend doesn't need a babysitter.

I hope he grows up eventually too. It's an upward battle.

And your right about the sex. That's a good way to put it. A good connection is important. But it causes a lot of issues.

He will turn me down for days. I get upset. He will finally initiate and then I won't be in the mood and tell him no. Then he will be like,"You've been bugging me for days, and now I want to and say no." He thinks I'm doing it on purpose or that I'm trying to punish him or something, but that just isn't the case. It just takes me a while, and a little schmoozing for me to feel in the mood again.

Usually by the time I'm warmed back up then he is upset and isn't in the mood anymore, and turns me down again.  That is what our last fight was about. I wish I could make him understand that I need a connection to want to have sex with him.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Have you sent a sexy text to him in the past? I don't recall you doing that.
> 
> I just thought I would let you know that having a sexy text from my wife would be absolutely wonderful. *I would re-read it over and over and take a picture of it and just rub it all over me*. My point? Don't be shy.


OMG, that is the sweetest thing ever!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Gothard by any chance?

Curious, you should check out the sexually confidant wife, written by Shannon Etheridge. She may even have a recommendation for a book for him, she has an e-mail she sends out and will answer questions from e-mails.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Okay. I just wanted to make sure I was clear that there was nothing creepy going on between them. My husband is all man. lol
> 
> I think I might insist that he sleep in bed with me one of the nights. I see no reason that I should have to sleep alone, just because his friend is here. His friend doesn't need a babysitter.
> 
> I hope he grows up eventually too. It's an upward battle.
> 
> And your right about the sex. That's a good way to put it. A good connection is important. But it causes a lot of issues.
> 
> He will turn me down for days. I get upset. He will finally initiate and then I won't be in the mood and tell him no. *Then he will be like,"You've been bugging me for days, and now I want to and say no." *He thinks I'm doing it on purpose or that I'm trying to punish him or something, but that just isn't the case. It just takes me a while, and a little schmoozing for me to feel in the mood again.
> 
> Usually by the time I'm warmed back up then he is upset and isn't in the mood anymore, and turns me down again.  That is what our last fight was about. I wish I could make him understand that I need a connection to want to have sex with him.


To the bolded does he not get that NO feels the same terrible way to you. I think I'd answer, "Yes I was, and finally I took care of the NEED. Do you think if a person is hungry they are gonna wait days for you to cook them a meal, no finally they will decide to cook it themselves.". 

As for the friend thing that is just odd. My husband has a single friend that we will stay with occassionally, he must never have married couples together at his house or they just don't sleep together. He always gives me the nicer room with single bed and my husband and most of the kids the rec room and living room couch. My husband always joins me on the single bed. 

My husband does always feels odd being intimate at other peoples house, I'm glad we got our own trailer now, their driveway is fair game


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I gotta chime in and say that the sleeping arrangement is not at all what I would expect. If I were the friend, I would be wondering why the *married couple* is not sleeping together. That is one of the advantages of being married, you get to sleep together, and to boot you get to wake up together.

If I were to suggest anything, I would suggest that you talk to your husband about weening him off of this habit. His friend needs to learn that married people sleep together and that when he gets a girl and marries her that is one of the perks. If anything, his friend needs an example of a healthy married couple that loves each other enough to show it, and sleep in the same bed. You guys are not doing this friend any favors by showing him an example of a couple that does not touch, and sleeps in other rooms even though they are married less than two years. Really, give the friend a healthy example to observe. If he is without friends and family close by, he needs to see an example of how it is suppose to be.

If you guys are his "family" now, you might let you husband know that it is your guys responsibility to shoe him examples of a loving relationship just as a mother and father show their kids how it is suppose to work.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes, me too. I try just to keep the negative thoughts at bay, and try to spend some time with him, snuggling and reconnecting before sexual things happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Well we texted a bit, and he wanted to attack me when he gets home from work today. *But unfortunately we have some house projects that have to be done this evening before it gets dark.* So I asked him if I can move our "date" until later in the evening.
> 
> Oh well. Maybe while we are working on the house we can banter, and flirt a little bit, and get things pre heated.


Weigh your "house projects" carefully! This could easily turn into one of those nasty situations where he is ready, you are not, then later where you are ready and he is not. In other words the bad timing thing that really leaves you both high and dry. Are the house projects something than can wait? Or can just part of the project be done to make it "stable" for the next day? Seriously, life is too short to allow a "house project" to kill the timing so you guys don't enjoy each other physically.

Oh, I have it, stop by Home Depot and get some "work lights" and postpone your house project to after sex. Then use the work lights to do the project outside.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I gotta chime in and say that the sleeping arrangement is not at all what I would expect. If I were the friend, I would be wondering why the *married couple* is not sleeping together. That is one of the advantages of being married, you get to sleep together, and to boot you get to wake up together.
> 
> If I were to suggest anything, I would suggest that you talk to your husband about weening him off of this habit. His friend needs to learn that married people sleep together and that when he gets a girl and marries her that is one of the perks. If anything, his friend needs an example of a health married couple that loves each other enough to show it, and sleep in the same bed. You guys are not doing this friend any favors by showing him an example of a couple that does not touch, and sleeps in other rooms even though they are married less than two years. Really, give the friend a healthy example to observe. If he is without friends and family close by, he needs to see an example of how it is suppose to be.


And if it makes him uncomfortable, tuff titty said the kitty. 

I'm not sure if the friend is as sensitive to this as your H thinks. Any idea? If so, these guys are not like my friends at all. I've got 3 friends I've known since 3rd grade. And I was totally serious about having loud sex and making sure he knew about it. It's just how we are. I'd expect any of them to do the same to me. LMAO.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I gotta chime in and say that the sleeping arrangement is not at all what I would expect. If I were the friend, I would be wondering why the *married couple* is not sleeping together. That is one of the advantages of being married, you get to sleep together, and to boot you get to wake up together.
> 
> If I were to suggest anything, I would suggest that you talk to your husband about weening him off of this habit. His friend needs to learn that married people sleep together and that when he gets a girl and marries her that is one of the perks. If anything, his friend needs an example of a healthy married couple that loves each other enough to show it, and sleep in the same bed. You guys are not doing this friend any favors by showing him an example of a couple that does not touch, and sleeps in other rooms even though they are married less than two years. Really, give the friend a healthy example to observe. If he is without friends and family close by, he needs to see an example of how it is suppose to be.
> 
> If you guys are his "family" now, you might let you husband know that it is your guys responsibility to shoe him examples of a loving relationship just as a mother and father show their kids how it is suppose to work.


:iagree::toast::allhail:

Excellent post! 

Maybe talk to hubby about all the problems you guys have had to work thru because of the weird stuff and encourage him that the 2 of you have a great opportunity to show the friend what healthy looks like.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*

How old is your husband? I understand his friend staying for the weekend, but sleeping on a sofa is just odd. Children do that not adult


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

the2ofus said:


> Gothard by any chance?


Exactly what came to my mind, too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FizzBomb

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm still getting over the fact that he plans on sleeping on the couch next to his friend instead of in his own bed with his wife. :scratchhead:

You gotta know that this is out of the norm. I mean, really? For realsies?

I don't know about you CuriousWife, but I would ask my husband to sleep in the bed with me .... and actually have sex. Yes, sex. So what if the friend hears? Maybe he'll cut his visit short.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *I won't get lucky because husband sleeps on the couch with said friend,* and because there is no way in heck that husband would be sexual with me, with his friend in the other room.


:scratchhead::scratchhead:


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That's hilarious. :lol:
> 
> I agree. But really I think the birthday thing is just an excuse for him being here. It's not uncommon. He stays the night already at least 2 times a month I'd say. But he's never stayed for two days before.
> 
> He's staying extra because we have a graduation to go to, and mother's day. They think they won't get enough time to do all the stuff they want to do. AKA play video games, and work on some house projects.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. You read correctly.
> 
> It is weird to have two grown men staying up all night playing video games, and sleeping together on a pull out sofa. (Separate blankets and such.)
> 
> At least this friend is more like a brother. He lived with my husband at his parents for a long while. So he is like family, and husband's parents call the friend their kid. So honestly it's not creepy or anything, (even though it does sound that way) they just seem like brothers.
> 
> They have been close like that for years and years, so I guess I've just grown used to it.


Still pretty creepy if it's a common occurrence. I have a brother and I can count on one hand the times we've slept next to each other.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> Exactly what came to my mind, too!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


* waves * 

Hi, good to see you again!


----------



## Laralie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Grown man sleeping in the living room with his grown man friend (WEIRD) while his WIFE is sleeping alone in the other room (DOUBLE WEIRD)?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I gotta chime in and say that the sleeping arrangement is not at all what I would expect. If I were the friend, I would be wondering why the *married couple* is not sleeping together. That is one of the advantages of being married, you get to sleep together, and to boot you get to wake up together.
> 
> If I were to suggest anything, I would suggest that you talk to your husband about weening him off of this habit. His friend needs to learn that married people sleep together and that when he gets a girl and marries her that is one of the perks. If anything, his friend needs an example of a healthy married couple that loves each other enough to show it, and sleep in the same bed. You guys are not doing this friend any favors by showing him an example of a couple that does not touch, and sleeps in other rooms even though they are married less than two years. Really, give the friend a healthy example to observe. If he is without friends and family close by, he needs to see an example of how it is suppose to be.
> 
> If you guys are his "family" now, you might let you husband know that it is your guys responsibility to shoe him examples of a loving relationship just as a mother and father show their kids how it is suppose to work.


This is a good idea. I actually mentioned it to husband last night, and asked if he would sleep with me one of the days his friend was here and he said sure. I wonder what he would say if I asked for both days...

The reason it doesn't bother me too much is because they stay up until 2-4 am, then usually just fall asleep watching a movie. It's more of just a convenience thing, or an accident. And to be truthful I like my sleep and would rather not be woken up in the middle of the night.

I'm sure if I asked him to come to bed he would, but I fall asleep long before they do, and then they just crash where ever.


----------



## Laralie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So it's more of a pass out thing rather than "I'm sleeping with my male friend in the living room"?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We are both in our 20's. Odd yes, but not out of the norm for our group of friends.

Maybe our friends are just weird. :scratchhead:

Both my girl friends, and my husband's guy friends have sleep overs still. 

Yes just like middle schoolers. A bunch of 20-30 year olds on sleeping bags and staying up late and eating popcorn and watching movies.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Laralie said:


> So it's more of a pass out thing rather than "I'm sleeping with my male friend in the living room"?


Yes. I've seen one of them fall asleep on the floor before. 

It's more of the sleep where ever you are when the sugar and monster rush wears off.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I was actually pleasantly surprised by my husband last night. 

We worked on our house for several hours, then I cooked dinner. 

His allergies were acting up really badly. He couldn't breath, he felt terrible. He didn't even finish his dinner, and I don't think I've ever seen him do that. He looked miserable.

Of course I took that as a sign that there would be no sex. I was sad, but I tried not to get too upset because I realize he was sick. 

But after dinner he initiated, and insisted we have sex even though I was worried he wasn't feeling well enough. 

He gave 110% despite feeling poorly, and didn't complain once or make me feel like he was just doing it for me. 

He also read another chapter in the book last night, without any pushing from me.

Halleluiah.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Him reading the book on his own is definitely a good sign.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

CharlieParker said:


> * waves *
> 
> Hi, good to see you again!


Hello! Thank you 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This is a good idea. I actually mentioned it to husband last night, and asked if he would sleep with me one of the days his friend was here *and he said sure :smthumbup:*. I wonder what he would say if I asked for both days...
> 
> The reason it doesn't bother me too much is because they stay up until 2-4 am, then usually just fall asleep watching a movie. It's more of just a convenience thing, or an accident. And to be truthful I like my sleep and would rather not be woken up in the middle of the night.
> 
> I'm sure if I asked him to come to bed he would, but I fall asleep long before they do, and then they just crash where ever.


Good, the first step is to have him climb into bed with you instead of falling asleep on the floor.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah, unless he wakes you up just getting into bed, there's no reason for him to not sleep with you.


----------



## Abc123wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We are both in our 20's. Odd yes, but not out of the norm for our group of friends.
> 
> Maybe our friends are just weird. :scratchhead:
> 
> Both my girl friends, and my husband's guy friends have sleep overs still.
> 
> Yes just like middle schoolers. A bunch of 20-30 year olds on sleeping bags and staying up late and eating popcorn and watching movies.


If your husband has his friend over a couple times a month, that could be quite disruptive to the two of you as a married couple. You might mention that it might be OK for his friend to be over that often if he made it to your marital bed by say 1am (or whatever time you decide together is reasonable). 

Then, you know there are ways to try to have sex while being as quiet as possible! Think if it as a challenge and a change of pace!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But after dinner he initiated, and insisted we have sex even though I was worried he wasn't feeling well enough.
> 
> He gave 110% despite feeling poorly, and didn't complain once or make me feel like he was just doing it for me.
> 
> He also read another chapter in the book last night, without any pushing from me.
> 
> Halleluiah.


I forgot to add that this is really good news. I was afraid you were going to report that you had yet another timing failure or a run around in circles. But this is really great news. (if you listen carefully you can hear the crowd clapping and screaming encore).


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How are things going? Wishing you luck this weekend. That you will be able to handle things with firmness, dignity, grace, and love. I often have trouble with the grace and dignity with firmness at the same time.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh it's going. We had a bit of a spat last night, but overall things are good. Hoping this weekend goes smoothly. I'll try to keep you updated. 

I might push his boundaries a little, and try to be a little more physical while his friend is here. See if that book reading is teaching him anything...


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Spats are part of the process!


----------



## LongWalk

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We are both in our 20's. Odd yes, but not out of the norm for our group of friends.
> 
> Maybe our friends are just weird. :scratchhead:
> 
> Both my girl friends, and my husband's guy friends have sleep overs still.
> 
> Yes just like middle schoolers. A bunch of 20-30 year olds on sleeping bags and staying up late and eating popcorn and watching movies.


Sounds like a set up for swinging?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



LongWalk said:


> Sounds like a set up for swinging?


Ha NO.

I don't morally believe in swinging, I would never share my husband, and many of my friends have never even had girlfriends/boyfriends before, let alone had sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh ho hum.

He turned me down last night because he was tired. Since we won't get to have sex today that means at least 5 days without sex. 

Going nearly a week without sex is beginning to become a habit. The last month or two I'd say we have averaged sex once a week, maybe every 5 days. That makes me sad.  I hope it's just because we are busy, and not an indication of things to come. 

But the thing is, I don't care if we are busy. I think if you really want to have sex you can find time. Stay up later, get up earlier, skip something else to stay home and have sex. I don't think being busy is a good excuse.

But my husband priorities are not the same as mine. Sex is the first thing to get cut if we have lots to do. 

Don't mind me, just having a bit of a pity party.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I always found that taking a shower together is a fun way to spend quality time together. After all I assume you both take daily showers so why not spend that time together?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he turned you down, then no bjs for him this week!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> If he turned you down, then no bjs for him this week!


He's already not getting any blow jobs. So no worries.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm so sorry Curious! If it's any condolence I know how it feels. For me I just had this horrible ache inside my heart so bad that I could feel it physically in my body. I really am glad we are not at that spot anymore. 

Did I miss something, why can't you have sex today.

((((((HUGS)))))) Again I'm so sorry


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> I always found that taking a shower together is a fun way to spend quality time together. After all I assume you both take daily showers so why not spend that time together?


He does not like taking showers with me.

Every once in a while he will, but it's a rare occurrence. He doesn't like to share his water, and says it's too crowded... 

Actually last night we had done some outside work and were all hot and sweaty, so I asked if we could go shower together, hinting about after shower activities, and that is when he rejected me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I'm so sorry Curious! If it's any condolence I know how it feels. For me I just had this horrible ache inside my heart so bad that I could feel it physically in my body. I really am glad we are not at that spot anymore.
> 
> Did I miss something, why can't you have sex today.
> 
> ((((((HUGS)))))) Again I'm so sorry


I know. If I think about it too much I feel physically sick, and I just want to throw up. So I try not to dwell on the rejection anymore. I just brush it off and say, maybe tomorrow. But I'll admit, it's hard sometimes. 

I go to school on Monday's right after work, and don't get home until long after he is asleep. So no sex.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He does not like taking showers with me.
> 
> Every once in a while he will, but it's a rare occurrence. He doesn't like to share his water, and says it's too crowded...
> 
> Actually last night we had done some outside work and were all hot and sweaty, so I asked if we could go shower together, hinting about after shower activities, and that is when he rejected me.


Ugh...."doesn't like to share his water" WTF?!

I think your hubby uses that as an excuse because he can't get hard for you in the shower.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's too bad it can't mean middle of his night sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> Ugh...."doesn't like to share his water" WTF?!
> 
> I think your hubby uses that as an excuse because he can't get hard for you in the shower.


Eh. He really doesn't like to share. If I do take a shower with him, he pretty much gets to stand in the water the entire time, and I just stand towards the back of the tub shivering and cold. Which I would happily do if it meant he would take more showers with me, but it doesn't help.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> That's too bad it can't mean middle of his night sex.


We haven't had sex in the middle of the night since our wedding night. No joke.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Eh. He really doesn't like to share. If I do take a shower with him, he pretty much gets to stand in the water the entire time, and I just stand towards the back of the tub shivering and cold. Which I would happily do if it meant he would take more showers with me, but it doesn't help.


WOW...talk about being a Grade-A D1CK!

sad sad sad 
sad sad sad
sad sad sad
sad sad sad
sad sad sad
sad sad sad


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> Ugh...."doesn't like to share his water" WTF?!
> 
> I think your hubby uses that as an excuse because he can't get hard for you in the shower.


Wouldn't you be a little embarassed if you were in your early 20s had a young beautiful wife and couldn't get hard. I mean there are probably perfectly good reasons that could be dealt with but he's embarassed. My husband and myself have agreed that we are really glad he was in his late 30s early 40s.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What's even sadder new hubs is that we women can get so desperate that we would be willing to freeze our butt off just to spend some naked time with our man and he's ignoring it and risking losing this amazing woman.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Wouldn't you be a little embarassed if you were in your early 20s had a young beautiful wife and couldn't get hard. I mean there are probably perfectly good reasons that could be dealt with but he's embarassed. My husband and myself have agreed that we are really glad he was in his late 30s early 40s.


Yea but I wouldn't act like a little spoiled pr1ck about it. I'd go see my doctor and get to the bottom of it.

I'm so glad you are defending his actions. Typical.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What would his reaction be if you just got into bed, naked, and snuggled up to him?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just to be clear, he can get hard. If I started touching him, or giving him a blow job he would, but seeing my naked body just doesn't do it for him. 

It makes me feel fat and ugly honestly. 

I always thought just being around a naked woman arouses a man, but I guess I was wrong.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Eh. He really doesn't like to share. If I do take a shower with him, *he pretty much gets to stand in the water the entire time, and I just stand towards the back of the tub shivering and cold.* Which I would happily do if it meant he would take more showers with me, but it doesn't help.


Wow. I can't imagine. Your problems go way beyond sex or even his selfishness in my opinion. To me this shows a total lack of caring about you. He is missing that protector instinct in regards to your feelings (the hand holding incident) and even worse your physical being. Maybe he's normal and I'm the one with some sort of issue (I'm sure I have many), but if either my W or I have to be uncomfortable 90% of the time I'm going to take the hit. Not because I have to or because she expects it, but because I want to keep her safe and "warm". If that makes sense.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> What would his reaction be if you just got into bed, naked, and snuggled up to him?


I will not do that again! 

The last time I did that he completely ignored me. It hurt me so bad. It's in this thread somewhere way back. It was definitely the worst he has ever hurt my feelings. There is no way I would get that vulnerable again. I have no doubts that he would reject or ignore me again.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh ho hum.
> 
> He turned me down last night because he was tired. Since we won't get to have sex today that means at least 5 days without sex.
> 
> But the thing is, I don't care if we are busy. I think if you really want to have sex you can find time. Stay up later, get up earlier, skip something else to stay home and have sex. I don't think being busy is a good excuse.
> 
> But my husband priorities are not the same as mine. Sex is the first thing to get cut if we have lots to do.
> 
> Don't mind me, just having a bit of a pity party.


I think that is really the prime illustration of the differences between sex drives. 

I also feel like I could always make time for sex, while those with lower sex drives than me would cut sex first, like your H. And no doubt he sees the good sex the other day as tiding you over for a while. For me, that usually just raises my appetite. 

However, he has really come a long way in the past year. I do think he is trying and do think he realizes things he didn't last year. 

Of course that doesn't mean it will ever be exactly the way you want things either, but the trying does mean something.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Wow. I can't imagine. Your problems go way beyond sex or even his selfishness in my opinion. To me this shows a total lack of caring about you. He is missing that protector instinct in regards to your feelings (the hand holding incident) and even worse your physical being. Maybe he's normal and I'm the one with some sort of issue (I'm sure I have many), but if either my W or I have to be uncomfortable 90% of the time I'm going to take the hit. Not because I have to or because she expects it, but because I want to keep her safe and "warm". If that makes sense.


I agree. He seems to have a complete lack of caring about me. I see it all the time. Just like yesterday we were going to a mother's day dinner, and I had cooked several items. When it was time to leave he just got into the car and left me the carry 3 dishes of food. I had to walk out to the car and ask him to help me, which he did with a hfmp. 

If I had not have asked he would have sat there and watched me take 3 trips back to the house to carry everything.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Just to be clear, he can get hard. If I started touching him, or giving him a blow job he would, but seeing my naked body just doesn't do it for him.
> 
> It makes me feel fat and ugly honestly.
> 
> I always thought just being around a naked woman arouses a man, but I guess I was wrong.


Sometimes the naked part isn't even required.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I think that is really the prime illustration of the differences between sex drives.
> 
> I also feel like I could always make time for sex, while those with lower sex drives than me would cut sex first, like your H. And no doubt he sees the good sex the other day as tiding you over for a while. For me, that usually just raises my appetite.
> 
> However, he has really come a long way in the past year. I do think he is trying and do think he realizes things he didn't last year.
> 
> Of course that doesn't mean it will ever be exactly the way you want things either, but the trying does mean something.


I know. 

I keep trying to tell myself that he has improved so I shouldn't be too disheartened. I see definite things he has gotten better at, but there is still such a long way to go. 

It just wears on me after a while. It is exhausting to try to "train" a grown man.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know.
> 
> It just wears on me after a while. It is exhausting to try to "train" a grown man.


Girl, isn't that the truth! :iagree:


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It is exhausting to try to "train" a grown man.


You'll be doing this for the REST of your married life with him so get used to it. It's gonna be a LONG ride for you...sadly


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Girl, isn't that the truth! :iagree:


You understand me more than just about anyone on TAM because our situations are so similar. I really appreciate your insight. 

How is your journey going? I haven't seen anything lately.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> You'll be doing this for the REST of your married life with him so get used to it. It's gonna be a LONG ride for you...sadly


I try not to think about it. Just taking one day at a time.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You understand me more than just about anyone on TAM because our situations are so similar. I really appreciate your insight.
> 
> How is your journey going? I haven't seen anything lately.


Mostly good for me. At the same time, there are things that can't change. And I feel grief about that. Sometimes. Other times I feel fine about it. 

He's really tried to meet my expectations, I will certainly give him that. 

Like you, we can have great sex one night and I will spend all the next day thinking - I'll have some more, please - while he is likely thinking 'I took care of her last night so tonight I don't have to worry about it.'

It's not even quality - or quantity- as much as that I long to have my passion returned. And I think you have what you have in that department. Even if you strive to match someone in other ways. You either want it as much as the other person does or you don't. 

And then you feel carpy for feeling that way when someone is really trying.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Mostly good for me. At the same time, there are things that can't change. And I feel grief about that. Sometimes. Other times I feel fine about it.
> 
> He's really tried to meet my expectations, I will certainly give him that.
> 
> Like you, we can have great sex one night and I will spend all the next day thinking - I'll have some more, please - while he is likely thinking 'I took care of her last night so tonight I don't have to worry about it.'
> 
> It's not even quality - or quantity- as much as that I long to have my passion returned. And I think you have what you have in that department. Even if you strive to match someone in other ways. You either want it as much as the other person does or you don't.
> 
> And then you feel carpy for feeling that way when someone is really trying.



I totally get that. Sometimes I'm okay with it, other times I grieve that I will never have the sex life I want.


Yes. Sometimes I feel bad for being so upset about our sex life, and always pushing for more changes when I know he is trying. I know he is trying, I just want more!

I still haven't figured out when comes the point that I'm being unrealistic, and asking for too much. I don't want to be selfish or greedy, but at the same time I don't want a crappy and unfulfilled sex life. 

I'm still working on balance.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will not do that again!
> 
> The last time I did that he completely ignored me. It hurt me so bad. It's in this thread somewhere way back. It was definitely the worst he has ever hurt my feelings. There is no way I would get that vulnerable again. I have no doubts that he would reject or ignore me again.


I had forgotten about that TCW, so sorry for suggesting it....


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I had forgotten about that TCW, so sorry for suggesting it....


I found it.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/98817-ld-husband-journal-18.html#post4446465

Wow. That was way back at the beginning of the thread.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm still working on balance.


You know you're not the only one. (Not that that helps.)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> You know you're not the only one. (Not that that helps.)


It does help a little, thanks. 

I feel so alone. It does help to know I'm not the only one struggling, it makes me feel less crazy.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree. He seems to have a complete lack of caring about me. I see it all the time. Just like yesterday we were going to a mother's day dinner, and I had cooked several items. When it was time to leave he just got into the car and left me the carry 3 dishes of food. I had to walk out to the car and ask him to help me, which he did with a hfmp.
> 
> 
> 
> If I had not have asked he would have sat there and watched me take 3 trips back to the house to carry everything.



That's sad. You're husband is selfish and kind of spoiled


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As for the getting hard thing I was not implying that he can't get hard at all but that possibly it doesn't happen on demand. Am I correct that he is only fine with doing it if it is on his time? He may only ask when it's ready. This happened for a short time for us before dh told me what was going on, during that time I felt ugly, felt like something made my body no longer beautiful to him, it took his talking and admiting to himself, then me that there was something wrong. For him it was all part of his low T. Yeah he could have just taken care of me on the nights he was low (and that did happen in time) but not without admitting he couldn't.



MissScarlett said:


> Mostly good for me. At the same time, there are things that can't change. And I feel grief about that. Sometimes. Other times I feel fine about it.
> 
> He's really tried to meet my expectations, I will certainly give him that.
> 
> Like you, we can have great sex one night and I will spend all the next day thinking - I'll have some more, please - while he is likely thinking 'I took care of her last night so tonight I don't have to worry about it.'
> 
> It's not even quality - or quantity- as much as that I long to have my passion returned. And I think you have what you have in that department. Even if you strive to match someone in other ways. You either want it as much as the other person does or you don't.
> 
> And then you feel carpy for feeling that way when someone is really trying.


The PASSION, yep that was the big thing. He could try to match me in every other way when he was low. But the passion you just can't fake that!



spinsterdurga said:


> That's sad. You're husband is selfish and kind of spoiled


Were his parents the kind that did everything for their kids? I just don't get it except sometimes he sounds like the oldest of 5 of a mom I know. She jumps everytime any of the kids need anything and this son is the most selfish 20 yr old but believes himself to be big hearted.:rofl: far from it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> As for the getting hard thing I was not implying that he can't get hard at all but that possibly it doesn't happen on demand. Am I correct that he is only fine with doing it if it is on his time? He may only ask when it's ready, this happened for a short time for us before dh told me what was going on, during that time I felt ugly, felt like something made my body no longer beautiful to him, it took his talking and admiting to himself, then me that there was something wrong. For him it was all part of his low T. Yeah he could have just taken care of me on the nights he was low (and that did happen in time) but not without admitting he couldn't.


He only does it on his own time yes. But he usually doesn't have an erection when we start, unless it's been over a week or something and he is really horny. So I don't think he is simply waiting for him to be aroused in that way, more just mentally aroused. 

Even if I flirt a little, and I happen to get him physically aroused he will still turn me down. It's not physical problems, it's mental. He just doesn't get in the mood. 



> The PASSION, yep that was the big thing. He could try to match me in every other way when he was low. But the passion you just can't fake that!
> 
> 
> Were his parents the kind that did everything for their kids? I just don't get it except sometimes he sounds like the oldest of 5 of a mom I know. She jumps everytime any of the kids need anything and this son is the most selfish 20 yr old but believes himself to be big hearted.:rofl: far from it.


Yes. His parents do everything single thing for their kids. They didn't even have chores. So he was raised spoiled and selfish. I'm battling against a life time of that.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I should add - its not that we will never have the sex life we desire - just with our current spouses.

So there is some choice involved, and I try to remind myself that if you are making a choice then you should also be trying to make the best of it. 

That works a lot of days, other days it doesn't. It's something I ponder quite a bit.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Again he burns me up. 

Refusing an invitation to shower with you? How can this be? Perhaps he is worried that it would lead to sex and was not ready for that. And on the occasion he does he basically ignores you. I am so sorry for you. How can a grown man be in a shower with the woman he loves and not soap her up and scrub he and rinse her off? :scratchhead: I mean it is so great because once she is soapy she is trapped in the shower and you can run you hands all lover her. 

Well, he has learned a few things ... But he still needs to take the "naughty shower 101 course" and come out with at least a B


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Has he finished reading the book yet Curious?


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Has he finished reading the book yet Curious?


:rofl:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. His parents do everything single thing for their kids. They didn't even have chores. So he was raised spoiled and selfish. I'm battling against a life time of that.


I'm so sorry!

And on the mental arousal thing my husband said the other day it is so nice to feel something again when I do this. We were talking and he was just resting his hand on my body!



fightforher said:


> Well, he has learned a few things ... But he still needs to take the "naughty shower 101 course" and come out with at least a B


:rofl: seriously my kids are asking me what I'm laughing about.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Has anyone ever seen a thread on here with a man asking why he lost his sex drive? I've seen women ask but never a man! Not being rude to the men, I just don't think it's as socially accepatable and was wondering if I'm right!?!?!


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Even if I flirt a little, and I happen to get him physically aroused he will still turn me down.


Sorry to hear this CW! I was hoping things were getting on track for both of you. 

What man would turn their wife down when already aroused! :scratchhead:

Again, it leads me to believe he's manipulating you...Gives a little and you think there's hope and takes it away just as fast...


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Has anyone ever seen a thread on here with a man asking why he lost his sex drive? I've seen women ask but never a man! Not being rude to the men, I just don't think it's as socially accepatable and was wondering if I'm right!?!?!


Good observation. I've not seen one.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Has anyone ever seen a thread on here with a man asking why he lost his sex drive? I've seen women ask but never a man! Not being rude to the men, I just don't think it's as socially accepatable and was wondering if I'm right!?!?!


Especially not a man in his 20s!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious,
> 
> Again he burns me up.
> 
> Refusing an invitation to shower with you? How can this be? Perhaps he is worried that it would lead to sex and was not ready for that. And on the occasion he does he basically ignores you. I am so sorry for you. How can a grown man be in a shower with the woman he loves and not soap her up and scrub he and rinse her off? :scratchhead: I mean it is so great because once she is soapy she is trapped in the shower and you can run you hands all lover her.
> 
> Well, he has learned a few things ... But he still needs to take the "naughty shower 101 course" and come out with at least a B


:lol:

Oh I agree. Every once in a while he will get frisky and will kiss me in the shower, or soap me up, but more often than not he will just face away from me and go about his business.

I have to fight the urge to touch him. If I do he usually just gets annoyed and hurries up and gets out or tells me to knock it off.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Has he finished reading the book yet Curious?


No he has not. But he is reading it.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have to fight the urge to touch him. If I do he usually just gets annoyed and hurries up and gets out or tells me to knock it off.



He needs to grow and start being considerate because not many women would tolerate this kind of behaviors


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



spinsterdurga said:


> He needs to grow and start being considerate because not many women would tolerate this kind of behaviors


He doesn't have to. He's found one who not only tolerates it but gives even more of herself to try to win his affection. 

I'm not knocking you Curious, I'm really not, I want you to be happy whatever that takes. But, I think you really need to take a look at why you allow him to treat you this way. Why you allow a boy to even think it would be ok to sit in the car and wait while you struggle to carry 3 dishes out. Why you allow a boy to be so inconsiderate of your feelings that he won't hold your hand if it might upset his friend. Why you allow a boy, who should be a grown man now, to have "sulmber parties" while you sleep ALONE in your marital bed. Why you allow your sexual needs to go unsatisfied for weeks while he is completely satisfied via BJ or HJ. (I know this is better now, but it hasn't stopped completely) What keeps you tied to an immature, selfish, lazy boy like this? A boy who leaves you shivering at the back of the tub while he soaks up all the hot water. A boy who blamed YOU for not being sexy enough to turn him on. 

I really hope you succeed in turning him around, but I don't see it happening. Maybe when he's older. But then again without life experiences to prompt growth and maturing, age means nothing. He wasn't ready for marriage. He wasn't a man, he was still a boy. He's still a boy. He will contiue to be a boy until he finds reason to grow up. 

Again, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or insult your H. My only stake in this is that I'd love to see you (and everyone) find happiness like I have.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Better yet, wallpaper his precious TV or Xbox flat screen with choice printed pages of all the men stuck in LD marriages and ask him if this is what the future holds.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious really has put the smackdown on him, though. Yes, there is still a ways to go. But this time last year she was not getting orgasms, he didn't care about her orgasms, he was able to talk her into BJ or HJ when she wanted sex, etc. 

I think another problem is that he seems to have little reference as to how married couples of their age should act. This wouldn't help his libido, that is what it is - but it sounds like the environment they grew up was very sexually and socially restricted. 

Having grown up in a somewhat similar situation - you kind of accept whatever your situation is as normal. It takes the thought process to have to question your own beliefs on how a married couple should act, how a young husband should act. How sleeping with your friend on the couch isn't normal in most people's opinion. (Different couches of course.)

I don't want to give him too much credit - because his actions make me mad as well, but I have to keep reminding myself this is a guy who's been sexually active less than 2 years, who is in his early 20's and who was raised in a stringent religious environment.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> but it sounds like the environment they grew up was very sexually and socially restricted.
> 
> I don't want to give him too much credit - because his actions make me mad as well, but I have to keep reminding myself this is a guy who's been sexually active less than 2 years, who is in his early 20's and who was raised in a stringent religious environment.


I am not knocking anyone's religion or religion in general (raised Catholic here) but I do believe growing up in a stringent religious environment creates problems. Not just in a marriage but in one's personal life as well. Like I said I was raised Catholic but I never let my faith dictate my life like those who follow "the book" word for word. 

For instance, I have friends who practice natural family planning and only have sex when they want a child. They now have 6 kids under the age of 13. Great for them but that's not a life I want to live let alone have 6 kids. They are struggling financially and have zero social life. I feel for them but this was a life they chose because IMHO they let religion dictate their their future. Did it have to be this way for them...absolutely NOT. 

I am sure I will get flack for even mentioning this on here...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :lol:
> 
> Oh I agree. Every once in a while he will get frisky and will kiss me in the shower, or soap me up, but more often than not he will just face away from me and go about his business.
> 
> I have to fight the urge to touch him. If I do he usually just gets annoyed and hurries up and gets out or tells me to knock it off.


I am incredulous. How can a guy in his 20's be in the shower with naked chick and face away and go about his business? :scratchhead: It is so hard to believe it is funny.

I feel sorry for you not being able to touch him in the shower too. I have generally felt that when you are married you can play with your spouse when you feel the desire. Part of the perks of being married.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Curious really has put the smackdown on him, though. Yes, there is still a ways to go. But this time last year she was not getting orgasms, he didn't care about her orgasms, he was able to talk her into BJ or HJ when she wanted sex, etc.
> 
> I think another problem is that he seems to have little reference as to how married couples of their age should act. This wouldn't help his libido, that is what it is - but it sounds like the environment they grew up was very sexually and socially restricted.
> 
> Having grown up in a somewhat similar situation - you kind of accept whatever your situation is as normal. It takes the thought process to have to question your own beliefs on how a married couple should act, how a young husband should act. How sleeping with your friend on the couch isn't normal in most people's opinion. (Different couches of course.)
> 
> I don't want to give him too much credit - because his actions make me mad as well, but I have to keep reminding myself this is a guy who's been sexually active less than 2 years, who is in his early 20's and who was raised in a stringent religious environment.


I have to agree, it seems like he really does not know how married people should act. Everything from holding hands, to kissing to checking up on her needs as often as possible (does she need a hand taking three plates of food out of the house). He just misses everything until it is blasted into his head. It is like Curious has to undo 20 years of bad training to how married people should behave. What sort of example did this guy have for married life?

Somebody should create a test for a marriage license. You don't pass you gotta watch mushy moves with loving couples for six months.


----------



## Abc123wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :lol:
> 
> Oh I agree. Every once in a while he will get frisky and will kiss me in the shower, or soap me up, but more often than not he will just face away from me and go about his business.
> 
> I have to fight the urge to touch him. If I do he usually just gets annoyed and hurries up and gets out or tells me to knock it off.


Has he had his testosterone checked? I just don't see any other explanation for his shower reaction. Most guys especially in their early 20s would not be able to go about their normal shower routine with a naked woman in there with him. I know my husband can't and he is 61! And I consider him a little bit LD.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

ABC he will not get them checked even though she has talked with him about the one you order via mail such as saliva or blood test. We've even joked about her catching his saliva when he drools while sleeping. But her checking would really do no good if he wants to pretend there is no problem!

Fight for her ~ how rude saying how terrible having 6 kids is !  Just messing with you. We absolutely love having 6 kiddos but know it's not everybodies cup of tea. But we did not only have sex to have kids, we do not let them take over our whole life, there are sacrifices we do make but we know they are our choices. The whole sex is for procreation attitude is screwed up. I just had to tease you cause that's what we do at our house. You make some excellent points. I just hate that there are families like the one that you described out there and feel sorry for the kiddos. (I've known several families like that).


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I am incredulous. How can a guy in his 20's be in the shower with naked chick and face away and go about his business? :scratchhead: It is so hard to believe it is funny.
> 
> I feel sorry for you not being able to touch him in the shower too. I have generally felt that when you are married you can play with your spouse when you feel the desire. Part of the perks of being married.


Nothing I read about this guy surprises me anymore. Very sad.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Somebody should create a test for a marriage license. You don't pass you gotta watch mushy moves with loving couples for six months.


I've learned we were the exception and actually discussed it BEFORE marriage. Sex was expected no matter what else was going on in the marriage. The word oxygen came up in that discussion. I was thinking of that in car this morning, we didn't have the best weekend and I wont be initiating for a while but am certainly there for her if she wants it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Curious really has put the smackdown on him, though. Yes, there is still a ways to go. But this time last year she was not getting orgasms, he didn't care about her orgasms, he was able to talk her into BJ or HJ when she wanted sex, etc.
> 
> I think another problem is that he seems to have little reference as to how married couples of their age should act. This wouldn't help his libido, that is what it is - but it sounds like the environment they grew up was very sexually and socially restricted.
> 
> Having grown up in a somewhat similar situation - you kind of accept whatever your situation is as normal. It takes the thought process to have to question your own beliefs on how a married couple should act, how a young husband should act. How sleeping with your friend on the couch isn't normal in most people's opinion. (Different couches of course.)
> 
> I don't want to give him too much credit - because his actions make me mad as well, but I have to keep reminding myself this is a guy who's been sexually active less than 2 years, who is in his early 20's and who was raised in a stringent religious environment.


I agree with Scarlet. I have really stepped up in the last year, and although it seems like we are still struggling with what seems to be many issues, we HAVE came quite a long way.

I am not letting him walk on me nearly as much as I used to. 

When he didn't offer to help carry stuff the other day I marched myself outside and told him to get his little behind inside and help. I don't allow him to be selfish in bed anymore. I demand he helps around the house, and it is working. Last night when I came home he had washed the dishes. A year ago that would have never happened.

I know it seems like small progress, but remember I am "training" this guy from the ground up. One step at a time.
*



A guy who's been sexually active less than 2 years, who is in his early 20's and who was raised in a stringent religious environment.

Click to expand...

*This is important.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I have to agree, it seems like he really does not know how married people should act. Everything from holding hands, to kissing to checking up on her needs as often as possible (does she need a hand taking three plates of food out of the house). He just misses everything until it is blasted into his head. It is like Curious has to undo 20 years of bad training to how married people should behave.


:iagree:

He honestly acts like he just doesn't know. If I tell him over and over he starts to get it, but only after repeating it dozens of times. 

How can you just not know how to be a good spouse? :scratchhead:

He is a hard worker at his job, and everyone loves him. I get so many compliments how what a great guy he is, how lucky I am, how hard a worker he is, how funny, etc. From EVERYONE.

But for some reason he doesn't act that way around me. It's like he doesn't realize it should apply to me too.

I feel like he is a baby, and I have to teach him manners, and proper behavior.




> What sort of example did this guy have for married life?


That is the strangest part. His family is perfect. Like straight out of the old tv sitcoms. They are kind, selfless, and hardworking. I'm completely serious when I say that they are probably some of the best people I have ever met. 

His parents have the like perfect marriage. They have never fought... ever! My husband can not remember his father ever raising his voice, or them ever arguing. I've been around them for over a decade and I can't remember an ill word ever spoken in their house either. Both of his parents would do anything for anyone. Like his father driving 2 hours to pick you up if your car broke down, or coming over to fix a leaky pipe at 4am. I've never heard him complain once. So I just don't understand how my husband turned out so completely opposite.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Somehow, your husband has to start seeing you as a wife and not as one of his buddies or his mother.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've noticed something odd recently.

The last few days after his shower he has taken his robe off before putting on his boxers, and seems to dress slowly. He has seen me watching him, and he just pretends not to notice or he will meet my stare and smile at me...

I know that sounds silly, but usually he keeps his robe on *and* turns away from me as well to make sure I don't see any of his naked body when he is getting dressed. So this seems like a deliberate attempt to flaunt it.

Is this his way of flirting or initiating? :scratchhead:

Is he hoping it will make me horny and I will be the first one to mention it? 

It seems like he is trying to convey some sort of message, but I'm not sure what. I wish he would just come out and tell me if he has something to say. 

It's been 5 days, so I'm sure he will hint around sex tonight. I'm not sure how I feel about it. It's so hard to get in the mood after this long, I just feel resentful.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Curious really has put the smackdown on him, though. Yes, there is still a ways to go. But this time last year she was not getting orgasms, he didn't care about her orgasms, he was able to talk her into BJ or HJ when she wanted sex, etc.
> 
> I think another problem is that he seems to have little reference as to how married couples of their age should act. This wouldn't help his libido, that is what it is - but it sounds like the environment they grew up was very sexually and socially restricted.
> 
> Having grown up in a somewhat similar situation - you kind of accept whatever your situation is as normal. It takes the thought process to have to question your own beliefs on how a married couple should act, how a young husband should act. How sleeping with your friend on the couch isn't normal in most people's opinion. (Different couches of course.)
> 
> I don't want to give him too much credit - because his actions make me mad as well, but I have to keep reminding myself this is a guy who's been sexually active less than 2 years, who is in his early 20's and who was raised in a stringent religious environment.


I agree. Curious has made progress with him AND he has made some effort. 

I guess what I'm really thinking is he still has a lot of growing up to do. Can he grow as much as he needs to within their marriage or does he need to be on his own for a while? I honestly don't know, but my opinion is that he won't grow as much as fast while married. 

He went from his parents doing everything for him to marriage where he expects his wife to do everything for him. He missed the part where he's alone and does everything for himself. There's a lot of life lessons in that time.

Curious can probably drag him to a level she can settle for. But what is the price going to be? How much will be his improvement and how much will be her lowering her expectations? Will her resentment pull her sex drive down to a level that matches his? Will her spirit be broken? Will her self esteem be shot? 

What I was trying to say is he was not ready for marriage. That's not his fault, and truthfully most 20 something year olds aren't. I wasn't. I did a lot of things wrong in my first marriage. There came a point, even after I understood this, that things had gone too far and it just wasn't going to work. 

I am of the firm belief that if someone is LD you can't "fix" them. It's their natural state. And LD doesn't just mean low frequency. It also means low passion, low creativity, and sometimes even low affection. Even if they make an effort and go along for the ride, you're still going to be doing most of the planning and initiation. Is that good enough? I'm not even considering that his problem is medical. At this point it doesn't matter because he won't get checked out.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

His family is an example of why I don't believe that if you are just a good example of being selfless they will be too. It's a theory i haven't seen pan out really well. In our house I teach selflessness to those who need it and stand up for yourselves to those who need it. We also talk about the proper way to ask for something. I demand they treat each other with respect, their interactions should be a win win. I just don't believe that kids will just "catch" it, you've got to have example and a little demanding. Part of being selfless is being willing to have them not like you at the moment.

As a mom I feel it is my job to prepare them for life and marriage but as a wife that would suck and i'd personally have a hard time likeing my in laws, well I do anyways but that's for other reasons. I totally admire the way my in laws raised my awesome man.

Also there was a study that said kids did better in relationships when they saw their parents have disagreements and solve them. You shouldn't involve your kids in the fight but it's not bad for them to know you are working thru a disagreement and then later see you all lovey.

Have you seen his parents showing any displays of physical affection?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> His family is an example of why I don't believe that if you are just a good example of being selfless they will be too. It's a theory i haven't seen pan out really well. In our house I teach selflessness to those who need it and stand up for yourselves to those who need it. We also talk about the proper way to ask for something. I just don't believe that kids will just "catch" it, you've got to have example and a little demanding. Part of being selfless is being willing to have them not like you at the moment.
> 
> As a mom I feel it is my job to prepare them for life and marriage but as a wife that would suck and i'd personally have a hard time likeing my in laws, well I do anyways but that's for other reasons. I totally admire the way my in laws raised my awesome man.
> 
> Also there was a study that said kids did better in relationships when they saw their parents have disagreements and solve them. You shouldn't involve your kids in the fight but it's not bad for them to know you are working thru a disagreement and then later see you all lovey.
> 
> Have you seen his parents showing any displays of physical affection?



This is a good post.

His parents did everything for him, so I guess he didn't need to learn to be selfless. They were too selfless, and didn't let him learn and figure things out. They are almost too nice.

They aren't a mushy couple. I've seen them hold hands a couple times, and kiss, and hug, but no flirting or anything. His dad is sweet to her, but not in a sexual or romantic way. 

In fact, I don't think they have any kind of sexual relationship.  They have a handicap son, which the father sleeps with to watch him while he sleeps and the mother can't stand it because the sons kicks and pulls hair so she sleeps else where with their youngest child who is scared of the dark. (She is over 10 years old for petes sake.)

Just another example of his parents giving up something to be selfless to their kids, aka spoiling them.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Being the wife of a recovering low T, I will say passion, creativity etc. goes up and down with the T levels. But while I am someone who needs sex emotionally my husband isn't that way and never will be. When he is stressed he doesn't want sex, when I'm stressed I need sex. It comforts me. We have had to come to an agreement on that. I have to share my need, not expect him to just see me low and rsspond. His response is wonderful but I do have to let him know cause it is foreign to him.

But I do agree because her husband is unwilling to get T levels checked :banghead: , we have to act like it is non-medical.

I also.agree that especially with this type of parenting he needed some life training before getting married.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Okay so his parents showed if there is anything else you give up sex.

From his parents description if he is "sweet" he is doing his job. Sweet is an outside perspective though, genuine loving means knowing the others needs and attending to them. 

There is a good chance that one of his parents is not happy with their situation either. When we've had children we needed to watch we set up a place in our bedroom but not in our bed past a certain age. Same for kids having trouble sleeping. Can I have their address to send them a night light for their 10 yr old?. What looks like selflessness could be avoidance!

The kid who kicks and pulls hair is he like that all the time?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Okay so his parents showed if there is anything else you give up sex.
> 
> From his parents description if he is "sweet" he is doing his job. Sweet is an outside perspective though, genuine loving means knowing the others needs and attending to them.
> 
> There is a good chance that one of his parents is not happy with their situation either. When we've had children we needed to watch we set up a place in our bedroom but not in our bed past a certain age. Same for kids having trouble sleeping. Can I have their address to send them a night light for their 10 yr old?. What looks like selflessness could be avoidance!
> 
> The kid who kicks and pulls hair is he like that all the time?



Right. His parents don't need sex, so why should he.

They have recently, in the past month bought the son a bed of his own and set it up in their bedroom. The idea was so that the parents could sleep together again, but I highly doubt that has happened yet. I imagine the younger child has thrown a stink, and won't sleep alone. But hopefully they will resume sleeping together again soon. That is so sad to me. 

I'm sure they haven't slept together for at least 15 years. So the younger kid has ALWAYS slept with her mommy. 

The son is handicap with many problems, he can't talk or anything. He is not kicking or pulling hair on purpose or violently, it just happens. 

I have already told my husband that when we have children they will absolutely not be sleeping in our bed. I wanted to make sure he knew that wasn't acceptable. I never slept with my parents as a child. If I had a bad dream they would rub my back for a few minutes and calm me down then put me back in my own bed. Which is how it should be.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Frankly I find it all quite odd. But I think it just happened over the years out of necessity and it just became habit. 

When I first met his family 4 of the kids slept on the couch / living room floor with mommy, including my husband. 

As the kids got older they all eventually moved to their own rooms, except the youngest now. 

They need to learn to tell their kids no.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

They are setting up a space for the son in their room, that tells me someone is not happy with the arrangement the fact they aren't back together again means it may not be mutual.

We had a crib at the side of our bed. Baby would come in to our bed at first waking and be there tell morning, cause I went back to sleep. A well rested mama and dad means more fun. When they stopped nursing they move to a cubby in our room until they needed no night time parenting (4ish). We moved the first 2 ourselves but the rest of them wanted to go sleep with the bigger kids. For us this is the way we got the most sleep while tending their needs. We had a king sized bed and there was always room for us to cuddle even if someone was sleeping in our bed. We put the kids needs as a priority but we don't believe every sqwack is a need. I hear of people whose kids get between them everytime they hug and they let them as if this is some need, we don't play that game. Our kids know they are loved and they know we love each other, they are very secure in both.( I make this assessment from things they say.)

I believe parents need to do what works for their family. No one size fits all formula. Each of my children needs different things, we try to meet them at their level not ours. Sometimes that means me giving up something, sometimes that means them waiting, sometimes that means them taking care of it themselves. We also always try to take care of mom and dads needs as well. We take a lot of "naps", sometimes mom is a noisy napper so we play music!

Kids birthdays trump "naps" so I had to wait yesterday.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The dressing in front of you thing is interesting. Just go with it, enjoy it, try not to read too much into it. Maybe he realized his silliness, maybe he's shy when he's not horny, or maybe he's just confusing I don't know. My recommendation would be to just enjoy it!


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> The dressing in front of you thing is interesting. Just go with it, enjoy it, try not to read too much into it. Maybe he realized his silliness, maybe he's shy when he's not horny, or maybe he's just confusing I don't know. My recommendation would be to just enjoy it!


How can one enjoy social awkwardness? :scratchhead:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've noticed something odd recently.
> 
> The last few days after his shower he has taken his robe off before putting on his boxers, and seems to dress slowly. He has seen me watching him, and he just pretends not to notice or he will meet my stare and smile at me....


I was suggesting she enjoy the view:smthumbup: instead of frustrating herself trying to get in his head and figure out what he's up to.

Awkwardness can come from shyness. This boy came from a very strict religious sexual background with parents showing no to little affection this is all new to him, appreciate the steps he has taken and just enjoy them. Personally I would mention to my husband at some point how much I enjoy watching him get dressed but Curious will have to be the judge of that being good for herself.

Yes they still have things to work out but he has made progress. I'm of the opinion that you don't judge a half done stew, there is still cooking to do and ingredients to add.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Fight for her ~ how rude saying how terrible having 6 kids is !  Just messing with you. We absolutely love having 6 kiddos but know it's not everybodies cup of tea. But we did not only have sex to have kids, we do not let them take over our whole life, there are sacrifices we do make but we know they are our choices. The whole sex is for procreation attitude is screwed up. I just had to tease you cause that's what we do at our house. You make some excellent points. I just hate that there are families like the one that you described out there and feel sorry for the kiddos. (I've known several families like that).


the2ofus, I don't think I said or implied that having 6 kids is bad. I like kids and I have a bunch too. 

I think what I was thinking is that Curious's H may not have seen examples of his parents holding hands, kissing, and hugging in public. Curious reports that he never saw them fight, but did he see them show affection? Was there any time while he was growing up that he realized his parents were having sex? Or was that a part of their (his parents) lives that was so private that he missed it? I am wondering if Curious's H had a good example of watching his parents love each other openly.

But please don't get me wrong. I love kids. Having kids is great. But it does pose a new problem to work through when we had them .. namely we had to balance the time to take care of the kids and to take care of your marriage. Not always easy to do with work and school and everything else in life.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I’m glad you didn’t just let him sit in the car but called him out on it, Curious. It’s important he knows that that’s just unacceptable. He should have learned this from seeing his parents interact, but if he didn’t you need to reinforce it. I seriously cannot believe that a grown man can act like that. The only thing my wife carries is her purse. Anything over two pounds, or anything requiring multiple trips, and I’m on it. He needs to grow up desperately.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Also there was a study that said kids did better in relationships when they saw their parents have disagreements and solve them. You shouldn't involve your kids in the fight but it's not bad for them to know you are working thru a disagreement and then later see you all lovey.
> 
> Have you seen his parents showing any displays of physical affection?


I agree. :iagree: It is important for kids to see disagreements, and how they are resolved. Hiding these from the kids entirely prevents them from learning the truth. And when they get out there and have a disagreement it suddenly becomes the end of world and they don't have the skills to deal with it properly.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This is a good post.
> 
> His parents did everything for him, so I guess he didn't need to learn to be selfless. They were too selfless, and didn't let him learn and figure things out. They are almost too nice.
> 
> They aren't a mushy couple. I've seen them hold hands a couple times, and kiss, and hug, but no flirting or anything. His dad is sweet to her, but not in a sexual or romantic way.
> 
> In fact, I don't think they have any kind of sexual relationship.  They have a handicap son, which the father sleeps with to watch him while he sleeps and the mother can't stand it because the sons kicks and pulls hair so she sleeps else where with their youngest child who is scared of the dark. (She is over 10 years old for petes sake.)
> 
> Just another example of his parents giving up something to be selfless to their kids, aka spoiling them.


Ouch, "The giving tree" on steroids!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, 

When his friend was over, what were the sleeping arrangements?

I am wondering if his family sleeping arrangements has caused him to think that seeping with his friend is proper.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious,
> 
> When his friend was over, what were the sleeping arrangements?
> 
> I am wondering if his family sleeping arrangements has caused him to think that seeping with his friend is proper.


The first night he did come to bed at like 2 am.

The second night he slept on the couch, but I believe they stayed up until like 4am, and I had to get up at 6am. 

I didn't think about that. Growing up never seeing his parents sleep together, he probably sees it as no big deal.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Personally I would mention to my husband at some point how much I enjoy watching him get dressed but Curious will have to be the judge of that being good for herself.


He knows I enjoy watching him. I have brought up several times how it hurts my feelings when he turns away from me, or tries to "hide" his body from me. 

He never has a good answer. I think he just doesn't want to give me the wrong signal that he wants sex, or want it to turn me on, and me bother him for sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Somebody help, I need advice.

If he initiates tonight, do I try to put the resentments behind me and pretend like everything is peachy and try to enjoy sex?

Do I bring up the fact that we haven't had sex for 5 days, and tell him again how that isn't acceptable?

Do I tell him he needs to warms me up first, but I'm open to him trying to get me in the mood?

Do I play it cool, and turn down his advances?

So confused on how to handle days like this.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> the2ofus, I don't think I said or implied that having 6 kids is bad. I like kids and I have a bunch too.
> 
> I think what I was thinking is that Curious's H may not have seen examples of his parents holding hands, kissing, and hugging in public. Curious reports that he never saw them fight, but did he see them show affection? Was there any time while he was growing up that he realized his parents were having sex? Or was that a part of their (his parents) lives that was so private that he missed it? I am wondering if Curious's H had a good example of watching his parents love each other openly.
> 
> But please don't get me wrong. I love kids. Having kids is great. But it does pose a new problem to work through when we had them .. namely we had to balance the time to take care of the kids and to take care of your marriage. Not always easy to do with work and school and everything else in life.


I was just teasing you!  Really no hard feelings!

Your post actually made me think of people I knew and made me ask more questions too! I think you were on to something. And his parents have a disabled child, even one more thing to try to balance. And now we see they don't even sleep in the same bed, it may be for practical reasons but still.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I agree. :iagree: It is important for kids to see disagreements, and how they are resolved. Hiding these from the kids entirely prevents them from learning the truth. And when they get out there and have a disagreement it suddenly becomes the end of world and they don't have the skills to deal with it properly.


I have a cousin like this. She was over protected and pampered with parents that would never fight in front of anyone. For her anything but a sing songie voice and the world was ending. She married the son of an alcoholic. Bet you can guess how that ended.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Somebody help, I need advice.
> 
> If he initiates tonight, do I try to put the resentments behind me and pretend like everything is peachy and try to enjoy sex?
> 
> Do I bring up the fact that we haven't had sex for 5 days, and tell him again how that isn't acceptable?
> 
> Do I tell him he needs to warms me up first, but I'm open to him trying to get me in the mood?
> 
> Do I play it cool, and turn down his advances?
> 
> So confused on how to handle days like this.


Does he respond better to positive re-enforcement or negative consequence? Which gives you better long term results? If positive you could put resentments aside and talk to him after, saying something like I am so glad we did this I was really starting to struggle, resentment just builds up when sex is put off for long. I'm glad we had this chance to reconnect and get in sync again. 

No matter what I wouldn't say nothing. He needs to know you need this just a matter of which angle you embrace it from. ps I would take the sex, cause then no matter the response I at least got my moment. And for us the old saying you get more bees with honey than vinegar turned out to be true.

For me personally I always found better results by saying I really like this then I didn't like this. But then I have a man who wants to please so making him feel like he has a chance of pleasing me gives me a better chance of getting it. Took me a while to learn that. And even a selfish person likes praise.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Whatever you do, just don't give him a bj and get nothing in return. If he wants a bj, you tell him he has to take care of you first and then you will give him the bj of a lifetime!!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Whatever you do, just don't give him a bj and get nothing in return. If he wants a bj, you tell him he has to take care of you first and then you will give him the bj of a lifetime!!


:iagree: Absolutely do not just give him a bj.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Guys. I am not going to give him a blow job. I don't do that anymore. Why the sudden lack of faith in me?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Not a lack of faith Curious - simply a reminder!!

Hope you have some passionate knock-your-socks-off sex!!


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ride him like there is no tomorrow!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> Ride him like there is no tomorrow!


:rofl:

Oh you guys crack me up.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Oh you guys crack me up.


At least we can make you laugh....


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Somebody help, I need advice.
> 
> If he initiates tonight, do I try to put the resentments behind me and pretend like everything is peachy and try to enjoy sex?
> 
> Do I bring up the fact that we haven't had sex for 5 days, and tell him again how that isn't acceptable?
> 
> Do I tell him he needs to warms me up first, but I'm open to him trying to get me in the mood?
> 
> Do I play it cool, and turn down his advances?
> 
> So confused on how to handle days like this.


Has he given you reason to think he might initiate tonight, or are you possibly setting yourself up for disappointment? Speaking from experience here.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> Has he given you reason to think he might initiate tonight, or are you possibly setting yourself up for disappointment? Speaking from experience here.


He hinted around it on my morning note, although he never says he wants it, or he is excited about it. He says things like,"maybe if we aren't busy and you want to we will have time to do it tonight...."

Real romantic huh. 

It's always maybe.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So did things go well?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We did have some fantastic sex last night. :smthumbup:

The only good thing about the quantity going down is that the quality goes up. 

Or maybe it really isn't better, and I'm just so horny by this point I think anything is great. :rofl:

He always enjoys himself, I just don't understand why it is such a constant battle to get him to have sex. I'm not torturing him or anything, he always has a smile on his face afterwards. :scratchhead:

He is crazy. 

Last night we cut to the chase pretty quickly, and while I had a great time, now I am craving more. I'm fantasizing of getting oral, giving each other full body massages, and a long evening of leisurely love making. *sigh* Maybe next time.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's good to hear! 

And I know the feeling of wanting more now!


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He hinted around it on my morning note, although he never says he wants it, or he is excited about it. He says things like,"maybe if we aren't busy and you want to we will have time to do it tonight...."
> 
> Real romantic huh.
> 
> It's always maybe.


Although it would make absolutely NO sense for him to feel this way... that sounds like he's hedging incase he's rejected. 

Congrats on the good lovin!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He hinted around it on my morning note, although he never says he wants it, or he is excited about it. He says things like,"maybe if we aren't busy and you want to we will have time to do it tonight...."
> 
> Real romantic huh.
> 
> It's always maybe.


Yup, this is sending out a reconnaissance note to feel out if you are receptive. He thinks that he might be rejected by you so he has to send out feelers like this to see if you are in the mood. So, he is also afraid of being rejected. Recall that you have rejected him at least once. And it does not take much to make somebody back off and be more cautious and less romantic. 

Glad you had a good time last night :smthumbup:


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm fantasizing of getting oral, giving each other full body massages, and a long evening of leisurely love making. *sigh* Maybe next time.


Did you let him know? Do you share your fantasy with him? Or are you afraid that he will feel pressured to perform? Are you afraid of being rejected again?

If you don't open up about this, then how do you expect him to open up and be romantic? If you open up and make yourself vulnerable, then you can ask him to do the same. Sure you might get rejected, and you might get your feelings hurt. But of you don't offer to open up and connect this way, how can you ask him to step up too. Somebody has to be first. And only you can choose to be first.


----------



## JrsMrs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree with Scarlet. I have really stepped up in the last year, and although it seems like we are still struggling with what seems to be many issues, we HAVE came quite a long way.
> 
> I am not letting him walk on me nearly as much as I used to.
> 
> When he didn't offer to help carry stuff the other day I marched myself outside and told him to get his little behind inside and help. I don't allow him to be selfish in bed anymore. I demand he helps around the house, and it is working. Last night when I came home he had washed the dishes. A year ago that would have never happened.
> 
> I know it seems like small progress, but remember I am "training" this guy from the ground up. One step at a time.
> *
> *
> This is important.


Just be very careful with this. You run a huge risk of being cast as the b!tch wife/mother figure who does nothing but make demands and set rules that he's required to live by. From his perspective, the marriage is probably becoming less satisfying rather than more, since he doesn't have that natural inclination toward partnership and mutuality. Unfortunately, you set him up in the beginning to expect you to be selfless, and now you're changing the rules and expecting him to consider your feelings and needs. It sucks that this makes you the bad guy, since these are all things he should give willingly, but that's the reality.
Tread lightly and consider the consequences from his immature, selfish perspective is all I'm saying. From someone who has been bitten in the a$$ for communicating her needs.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree she should be cautious in her approach but the option of not doing anything means misery forever. To me that's a lousy option. At least taking the chance and talking brings the chance of realization and change.

I get what your saying and both options can seem sucky! But I have personally found honesty mixed with patience and attempting to understand their position while still pushing, to be the option that worked best for us.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Did you let him know? Do you share your fantasy with him? Or are you afraid that he will feel pressured to perform? Are you afraid of being rejected again?
> 
> If you don't open up about this, then how do you expect him to open up and be romantic? If you open up and make yourself vulnerable, then you can ask him to do the same. Sure you might get rejected, and you might get your feelings hurt. But of you don't offer to open up and connect this way, how can you ask him to step up too. Somebody has to be first. And only you can choose to be first.


I used to let him know. But for a while now I've been trying to keep my sexual thoughts to myself. If I bring them up he dismisses them, ignores them, rejects them, gets annoyed, or criticizes me.

But as per your request I texted him over lunch about how much fun full body massages sounded for both of us tomorrow, with some relaxing and enjoying each other. He only said, "yeah maybe." 

I didn't want him to dismiss it, so I continued talking about how nice it would be, and he just replied, "yeah we'll see." Then he changed the conversation to something else. 

I will mention it again tonight or tomorrow, but I have a feeling he is just going to ignore it some more. If I push too hard it will just turn him off and I'll go without sex for a week again.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I always worry about my needs being too demanding. I'm worried he will see me as a nag, or bossy when I don't let his bad behavior slip. But like the2ofus said, it's either take the risk and hope things get better or be miserable.

Either way is kind of a lose lose, but at least this way I don't suffer in silence, and act like a doormat. 

I'm still working on figuring out when is it too much. 

I don't want him to think I am a mean person, or always unhappy with him, or that I criticize everything he does. So when he does something nice, or really tries, I always make sure to praise him.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> ]I'm worried he will see me as a nag


I've learned that best way to stop my wife's nagging is to do the thing (not talking sex) she wants done, it's important to her. It only took 15 years to figure that out


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I used to let him know. But for a while now I've been trying to keep my sexual thoughts to myself. If I bring them up he dismisses them, ignores them, rejects them, gets annoyed, or criticizes me.
> 
> But as per your request I texted him over lunch about how much fun full body massages sounded for both of us tomorrow, with some relaxing and enjoying each other. He only said, "yeah maybe."
> 
> I didn't want him to dismiss it, so I continued talking about how nice it would be, and he just replied, "yeah we'll see." Then he changed the conversation to something else.
> 
> I will mention it again tonight or tomorrow, but I have a feeling he is just going to ignore it some more. If I push too hard it will just turn him off and I'll go without sex for a week again.


This may sound odd, but don't worry so much about the response from him. Your job was to make it known what you wanted, what you need and desire. And you did that. In time he will know you better and not have concerns about being rejected or something else. Remember your job is to open up. You can't control him, or his desire. But you can communicate to him you wants. But don't make the wants sound like demands. Just open up and show him your desires.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> I've learned that best way to stop my wife's nagging is to do the thing (not talking sex) she wants done, it's important to her. It only took 15 years to figure that out


So curious only 13-14 yrs more



fightforher said:


> This may sound odd, but don't worry so much about the response from him. Your job was to make it known what you wanted, what you need and desire. And you did that. In time he will know you better and not have concerns about being rejected or something else. Remember your job is to open up. You can't control him, or his desire. But you can communicate to him you wants. But don't make the wants sound like demands. Just open up and show him your desires.


This is spot on. You are only responsible for you not him or his response. In all honesty I know when I'm nice or not to someone. If I tried to go off other peoples responses I would be a wreck, according to some I'd always be bad and with others it would SEEM as if i was always being nice (even when I wasn't). When I get a negative response I check myself, my motives, then I move on. If I need to apologize I do if not I don't.

I need to get my husband on here but since he's not I will share this. He told me at some point that his attractedness or lack thereof had nothing to do with me. While healing up his body it can be hard(no pun intended). Sometimes he's on fire others eh not so much. If we have a celebratory weekend like this last one with birthdays and mothers day, and he's not getting his sleep and eating too much sweets, and dealing with family, he's just not as randy. I have to decide to not let that skew my feelings. His lack of randiness has nothing to do with his view of me or feelings for me. Then one afternoon your getting him something at lunch time and suddenly there's that look. Its not me that is the problem, its those darn hormones.

It's him not you. Do what's right and the rest is on him!


----------



## Brutus21

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Part 1
116 pags...holy ****.
ok.
First off, make sure he doesnt have a porn or masturbation addition.
assuming that is not the problem, then keep reading.

Start dressing casual sexy around the house. wear just enough to invoke the imagination, but not too much. leggings sports bra and a sweater, short shorts and a tank top, low cut shirt...stuff that shows off your assets. but dont approach him for sex!
wear only matching bra/underwear to bed, but dont say anything, give hime a really nice goodnight kiss, then roll over and go to bed.

Also is he ADD at all?
look up SADD (Sexual ADD) its an interesting read at least.
more to follow...
cheers and good luck.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I didn't get the lengthy love making session I wanted, or full body massages but I still had a good time. 

TMI to come?

He has seemed bored? Lately with sex, maybe. He hasn't said that, but after a couple of minutes he wants to cut straight to the chase. And I've noticed he hasn't been as aroused, or been as hard lately. We've had to switch positions a lot to keep his "attention." I'm just wondering what's up. 

It's frustrating to me, because he just wants me to lie back and let him work on me until I'm finished, then it's thrust and done. Or usually both at the same time to speed things up. 

He rubs for a couple minutes, then he wants PIV, always doggie style because he knows I don't last more than a couple minutes. Then sometimes he will just finish at the same time, or we may switch positions for him. But it's becoming very routine. I feel like he just wants it this way because it is easy. Or maybe it's because it's nearly a 100% success rate, and he wants to make sure I am satisfied? 

I want to touch him too as foreplay, and I do touch the yummy parts if he's not in me. But if I ask him wants he wants or likes, or if I try different things he just says he's really not a touchy guy and hands on him don't really do anything. He doesn't like back rubs, or anything like that. He prefers I just lay there and enjoy it, he says. But it makes me feel lameo and boring.

So I'm at a loss at what I could do to spice things up and break us out of this routine? I try to drag the foreplay out a little more, but like I said, if I try to touch him, he just always wants to skip to the other stuff. 

He likes kissing a lot, but even that is becoming routine.

Foreplay ideas?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Brutus21 said:


> Part 1
> 116 pags...holy ****.
> ok.
> First off, make sure he doesnt have a porn or masturbation addition.
> assuming that is not the problem, then keep reading.
> 
> Start dressing casual sexy around the house. wear just enough to invoke the imagination, but not too much. leggings sports bra and a sweater, short shorts and a tank top, low cut shirt...stuff that shows off your assets. but dont approach him for sex!
> wear only matching bra/underwear to bed, but dont say anything, give hime a really nice goodnight kiss, then roll over and go to bed.
> 
> Also is he ADD at all?
> look up SADD (Sexual ADD) its an interesting read at least.
> more to follow...
> cheers and good luck.


No porn or masturbation. We've had quite lengthy discussions about it, especially in the last few days. My best friend's boyfriend is struggling with it right now, and she's been asking advice and been at my house crying about it. So it invoked some conversations.

I always wear matching panties. I try wearing sexy stuff around the house, short shorts, cleavage showing shirts, etc. He doesn't seem to notice. 

It wouldn't surprise me if he is a little ADD. He has trouble sitting still, and doing long things like watching movies. He is getting better with age.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I didn't get the lengthy love making session I wanted, or full body massages but I still had a good time.
> 
> TMI to come?
> 
> He has seemed bored? Lately with sex, maybe. He hasn't said that, but after a couple of minutes he wants to cut straight to the chase. And I've noticed he hasn't been as aroused, or been as hard lately. We've had to switch positions a lot to keep his "attention." I'm just wondering what's up.
> 
> It's frustrating to me, because he just wants me to lie back and let him work on me until I'm finished, then it's thrust and done. Or usually both at the same time to speed things up.
> 
> He rubs for a couple minutes, then he wants PIV, always doggie style because he knows I don't last more than a couple minutes. Then sometimes he will just finish at the same time, or we may switch positions for him. But it's becoming very routine. I feel like he just wants it this way because it is easy. Or maybe it's because it's nearly a 100% success rate, and he wants to make sure I am satisfied?
> 
> I want to touch him too as foreplay, and I do touch the yummy parts if he's not in me. But if I ask him wants he wants or likes, or if I try different things he just says he's really not a touchy guy and hands on him don't really do anything. He doesn't like back rubs, or anything like that. He prefers I just lay there and enjoy it, he says. But it makes me feel lameo and boring.
> 
> So I'm at a loss at what I could do to spice things up and break us out of this routine? I try to drag the foreplay out a little more, but like I said, if I try to touch him, he just always wants to skip to the other stuff.
> 
> He likes kissing a lot, but even that is becoming routine.
> 
> Foreplay ideas?


Restraints take away the "don't touch me there" arguments. Not sure if that would work with the dynamic you two have going on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> Restraints take away the "don't touch me there" arguments. Not sure if that would work with the dynamic you two have going on.


Wait. I don't think I made myself clear.

I can touch his penis. But that is about the only thing he enjoys being touched. So if we are doing PIV, I have no idea what I am suppose to do with my hands. 

Restraints are a no go.  I've tried in the past, and he said absolutely not, and got pretty cranky about it when I tried anyway. That little stinker.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> In 30 years from now that won’t seem so bad, at least it isn’t to us. o, says the old fart.)
> 
> You say that like it's a bad thing. Actually sounds like progress.
> 
> What about boardgames or there are apps for that, like Adult Wheel of Foreplay on the App Store on iTunes? (Full disclosure, we’ve tried a couple and found them lame.)


I do enjoy it. 

I just worry about him getting burnt out, and/or bored. 

I want him to enjoy it as much as I do, and I don't like just laying there and feeling selfish. 

I've tried a couple apps, and there were lame. Maybe I didn't find the right one.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I didn't get the lengthy love making session I wanted, or full body massages but I still had a good time.
> 
> TMI to come?
> 
> He has seemed bored? Lately with sex, maybe. He hasn't said that, but after a couple of minutes he wants to cut straight to the chase. And I've noticed he hasn't been as aroused, or been as hard lately. We've had to switch positions a lot to keep his "attention." I'm just wondering what's up.
> 
> It's frustrating to me, because he just wants me to lie back and let him work on me until I'm finished, then it's thrust and done. Or usually both at the same time to speed things up.
> 
> He rubs for a couple minutes, then he wants PIV, always doggie style because he knows I don't last more than a couple minutes. Then sometimes he will just finish at the same time, or we may switch positions for him. But it's becoming very routine. I feel like he just wants it this way because it is easy. Or maybe it's because it's nearly a 100% success rate, and he wants to make sure I am satisfied?
> 
> I want to touch him too as foreplay, and I do touch the yummy parts if he's not in me. But if I ask him wants he wants or likes, or if I try different things he just says he's really not a touchy guy and hands on him don't really do anything. He doesn't like back rubs, or anything like that. He prefers I just lay there and enjoy it, he says. But it makes me feel lameo and boring.
> 
> So I'm at a loss at what I could do to spice things up and break us out of this routine? I try to drag the foreplay out a little more, but like I said, if I try to touch him, he just always wants to skip to the other stuff.
> 
> He likes kissing a lot, but even that is becoming routine.
> 
> Foreplay ideas?


Is watching porn together as foreplay out of the question?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Wait. I don't think I made myself clear.
> 
> I can touch his penis. But that is about the only thing he enjoys being touched. So if we are doing PIV, I have no idea what I am suppose to do with my hands.
> 
> Restraints are a no go.  I've tried in the past, and he said absolutely not, and got pretty cranky about it when I tried anyway. That little stinker.


:rofl: don't know where to put your hands! Sounds like you need to take up knitting while you are having sex so your hands are busy.

Actually, what I recommend is that you do whatever with your hands that makes you feel good. If you want to rub his back and that excites you then do it. Or if you feel like touching yourself that is ok too. The point is that you should be a little more selfish with your hands and do what you want with them, and NOT worry about finding a place for your hands that pleases him.

Just don't do the knitting thing or cut out paper dolls, it is insulting to the male of the species.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Is watching porn together as foreplay out of the question?


Yes


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> :rofl: don't know where to put your hands! Sounds like you need to take up knitting while you are having sex so your hands are busy.
> 
> Actually, what I recommend is that you do whatever with your hands that makes you feel good. If you want to rub his back and that excites you then do it. Or if you feel like touching yourself that is ok too. The point is that you should be a little more selfish with your hands and do what you want with them, and NOT worry about finding a place for your hands that pleases him.
> 
> Just don't do the knitting thing or cut out paper dolls, it is insulting to the male of the species.



:lol:

Thanks for the laugh. 

I do put my hands wherever I feel like. But he just doesn't seem to respond to them, so I'm looking for ideas. 


I don't know. I guess I'm just wanting to get out of this routine rut that we are in, and I am out of ideas.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If you have to keep all his rules and regulations in your mind while having sex with him, sooner or later, it will be more trouble than it's worth, IMO.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes


Hmm, I feel like it might be good for him since he grew up so sheltered and doesn't have guy friends who talk to him about that kind of stuff. Visually seeing other people have sex might help him get more sexual himself. IMO


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Hmm, I feel like it might be good for him since he grew up so sheltered and doesn't have guy friends who talk to him about that kind of stuff. Visually seeing other people have sex might help him get more sexual himself. IMO


That is true. We have talked about it before. But porn style sex is not "real sex" IMO. So that is not exactly the kind of sex I want him learning.

Besides we agreed there are more downsides than upsides in our relationship to watching porn.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> :rofl: don't know where to put your hands! Sounds like you need to take up knitting while you are having sex so your hands are busy.
> 
> Actually, what I recommend is that you do whatever with your hands that makes you feel good. If you want to rub his back and that excites you then do it. Or if you feel like touching yourself that is ok too. The point is that you should be a little more selfish with your hands and do what you want with them, and NOT worry about finding a place for your hands that pleases him.
> 
> Just don't do the knitting thing or cut out paper dolls, it is insulting to the male of the species.


:rofl: I confess when I read this at first I had a visions of yo-yo's and slinky's.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That is true. We have talked about it before. But porn style sex is not "real sex" IMO. So that is not exactly the kind of sex I want him learning.
> 
> Besides we agreed there are more downsides and upsides in our relationship to watching porn.


I wasn't suggesting he pick up the technique (lol), just that looking at sexual visuals might get him in a sexual state of mind which could lead to more frequent bedroom times. But of course its an individual choice.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> I wasn't suggesting he pick up the technique (lol), just that looking at sexual visuals might get him in a sexual state of mind which could lead to more frequent bedroom times. But of course its an individual choice.


Yes. But I think he would start picking on the technique as well. lol. And he does not need to learn how to be more sexual.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing. Actually sounds like progress.


Him wanting to make sure you are pleased does sound like major progress.



fightforher said:


> :rofl: don't know where to put your hands! Sounds like you need to take up knitting while you are having sex so your hands are busy.


. That made me laugh!



TheCuriousWife said:


> I do put my hands wherever I feel like. But he just doesn't seem to respond to them, so I'm looking for ideas.
> 
> I don't know. I guess I'm just wanting to get out of this routine rut that we are in, and I am out of ideas.


My husband is not necessarily a super touchy feely guy! The lower his T the less touchy he is. As T levels come up he gets more out of just touching me even. But even with high levels it is nowhere near his main love language.

Sorry to say this but when you mentioned less hardness my first thought was that his T is sinking even more. Seeming ADD, that's dh the lower his T the worse his focus, when it is fine he focuses just fine. Nakedness (or partial) does nothing when T is low but revs him up when he is good. The fact that some things are getting less while he seems to be trying harder makes me think even more that it's low T not greysexual.

Has he seen the list of symptoms and know that he could test it secretly and even you wouldn't have to know, and he could secretly follow an action plan to bring it up?


----------



## Brutus21

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



> No porn or masturbation. We've had quite lengthy discussions about it, especially in the last few days. My best friend's boyfriend is struggling with it right now, and she's been asking advice and been at my house crying about it. So it invoked some conversations.
> 
> I always wear matching panties. I try wearing sexy stuff around the house, short shorts, cleavage showing shirts, etc. He doesn't seem to notice.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if he is a little ADD. He has trouble sitting still, and doing long things like watching movies. He is getting better with age.


Thats unfortunate about your friend. I hope they can pull through, its a horrible addiction and apparantly as hard on the mind and dopamine system as cocaine.

Hmmm... to some guys a big part of sex is figuring out someone new and how they work and tick inside the bedroom, how to get them off... once they think they have you figured out they feel bored... (doggystyle for a bit you get off he gets off, done.)
(i know thats how i was and realizing it is a big step in the game, and helps me overcome it)

try acting different during sex, a little more vocal, more dirty talk while doing it, unleash the animal... I do understand that its going to be hard to break the sex "Mould" of how you have been doing it, but if he see's that he is getting a different more primal/vocal/wild results he will be interested in doing it a little more and finding out what is causing this reaction...

You may be already doing this, sorry to suggest anything to much...

It sounds like he knows exactly what to do to get you off, you could tell him it doesnt get you off anymore and that you guys need to figure out a new way 

good luck.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I wouldn't suggest making him think he's no good. Just don't think this is the best approach, I wouldn't try it. I know it would be very bad for my man!


----------



## doobie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Brutus21 said:


> Part 1
> 116 pags...holy ****.
> ok.
> First off, make sure he doesnt have a porn or masturbation addition.
> assuming that is not the problem, then keep reading.
> 
> Start dressing casual sexy around the house. wear just enough to invoke the imagination, but not too much. leggings sports bra and a sweater, short shorts and a tank top, low cut shirt...stuff that shows off your assets. but dont approach him for sex!
> wear only matching bra/underwear to bed, but dont say anything, give hime a really nice goodnight kiss, then roll over and go to bed.
> 
> Also is he ADD at all?
> look up SADD (Sexual ADD) its an interesting read at least.
> more to follow...
> cheers and good luck.


While this advice might work for some, do you have any idea how humiliating it is for a woman to be prancing around the house wearing sexy/provocative clothing and have her spouse totally ignore her? Do you know how uncomfortable it is to wear a thong to bed in the false hope that it will turn your spouse on, only to spend the night sleeping with elastic in your crack? Do you know how demeaning and horrible it is to spend ages taking care of your appearance in the hope that your spouse might just find you attractive enough to want to make love to you only to fail yet again (this goes on on a daily basis in my house). Do you know what it feels like to spend all day, every day living with this total lack of hope and knowing that, no matter how hard you try, no matter what you're willing to do, nothing changes and you feel like the only way to change this stalemate is to get out of you marriage?


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



doobie said:


> While this advice might work for some, do you have any idea how humiliating it is for a woman to be prancing around the house wearing sexy/provocative clothing and have her spouse totally ignore her? Do you know how uncomfortable it is to wear a thong to bed in the false hope that it will turn your spouse on, only to spend the night sleeping with elastic in your crack? Do you know how demeaning and horrible it is to spend ages taking care of your appearance in the hope that your spouse might just find you attractive enough to want to make love to you only to fail yet again (this goes on on a daily basis in my house). Do you know what it feels like to spend all day, every day living with this total lack of hope and knowing that, no matter how hard you try, no matter what you're willing to do, nothing changes and you feel like the only way to change this stalemate is to get out of you marriage?


Not to mention how stupid one feels trying to be vocal with a partner who is unaffected or put off by it. 

Curious has tried all these things and more. One of her more hurtful attempts involved her making dinner in just a short t shirt.  I can't remember exactly, it seemed she ended up crying in her bedroom while he dozed off watching tv or something. 

Curious has tried everything that anyone has mentioned. And more. She somehow keeps thinking of ways to up this game. I feel very defensive of her when she's told to act more ****ty or dress more provocative. She has. She does. If it didn't work the first 10 times every time after that just makes you feel worse about yourself.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



doobie said:


> While this advice might work for some, do you have any idea how humiliating it is for a woman to be prancing around the house wearing sexy/provocative clothing and have her spouse totally ignore her? Do you know how uncomfortable it is to wear a thong to bed in the false hope that it will turn your spouse on, only to spend the night sleeping with elastic in your crack? Do you know how demeaning and horrible it is to spend ages taking care of your appearance in the hope that your spouse might just find you attractive enough to want to make love to you only to fail yet again (this goes on on a daily basis in my house). Do you know what it feels like to spend all day, every day living with this total lack of hope and knowing that, no matter how hard you try, no matter what you're willing to do, nothing changes and you feel like the only way to change this stalemate is to get out of you marriage?


:iagree: 
The only part I'd add is the other option is for him to realize there is a problem.



MissScarlett said:


> Not to mention how stupid one feels trying to be vocal with a partner who is unaffected or put off by it.
> 
> Curious has tried all these things and more. One of her more hurtful attempts involved her making dinner in just a short t shirt. I can't remember exactly, it seemed she ended up crying in her bedroom while he dozed off watching tv or something.
> 
> Curious has tried everything that anyone has mentioned. And more. She somehow keeps thinking of ways to up this game. I feel very defensive of her when she's told to act more ****ty or dress more provocative. She has. She does. If it didn't work the first 10 times every time after that just makes you feel worse about yourself.


I know the feeling Scarlett. I feel protective when someone tells her to go jump in the fire. And in reality all she's doing there is ignoring the facts. It is not that she isn't attractive, he just isn't interested no matter what she does and her initiating tends to turn him off.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Not to mention how stupid one feels trying to be vocal with a partner who is unaffected or put off by it.
> 
> Curious has tried all these things and more. One of her more hurtful attempts involved her making dinner in just a short t shirt. I can't remember exactly, it seemed she ended up crying in her bedroom while he dozed off watching tv or something.
> 
> Curious has tried everything that anyone has mentioned. And more. She somehow keeps thinking of ways to up this game. I feel very defensive of her when she's told to act more ****ty or dress more provocative. She has. She does. If it didn't work the first 10 times every time after that just makes you feel worse about yourself.


When you spell it out like that .. it really drives the point home that doing all that and getting no response is so humiliating and makes one feel so outcast in ones one home. I can imagine how it would feel, and how it would make me cry if I was a fly on the wall watching it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My husband and I were discussing this last suggestion and I mentioned that Mr. (un)curious had suggested lingerie once and my husbands reply was he's just looking for answers cause he doesn't know what's wrong. We remember when I asked why he wasn't interested when I was naked and he said maybe cause I always slept naked so I tried to have some sorta sexy pjs that were comfortable to where regularly then lingerie for interested times. It did nothing, I cried a lot. He swore he still found me attractive but still it hurt so bad. Shortly thereafter he did come to realize there was something not quite right but we still didn't know what it was. We knew stress was a problem but had no idea why or what to do about it. Answers took time, LOTS of tears were shed. I remember telling him that it wasn't right that I should never be able to approach him and say I was horny and the thought of living like this the rest of my life made me really sad. Luckily we found an answer, stressful days happen that still knock him down some but even those are getting fewer and further apart. And now I am able to tell him I know your stressed but I need you right now and we come to some sort of a compromise.

So from that I have to say just keeping talking and sharing your heart with him, it is not you. We will be here when you feel like that heart is getting trampled but if it's ever gonna work he has to know. He needs time, communication, patience and encouragement and sometimes a swift kick in the rear and he may just come to realize a problem. When I look at our time line he does seem to be making progress, wish for your sake he was there already (((hugs))). Again it is NOT YOU all you need to do is share your heart!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



doobie said:


> Do you know how uncomfortable it is to wear a thong to bed in the false hope that it will turn your spouse on, only to spend the night sleeping with elastic in your crack?


:lol:

Trying to make light of a sad situation, but this totally happened to me. I think I wrote about it somewhere in this thread.

I went out and bought my first thong, which husband hinted that he wanted. I got home, got gussied up, made dinner, put on my new panties and crawled into bed with a grin waiting for him to come home. 

He got home, and I flirted, seduced, and pleaded for him to get into bed with me. He wouldn't. Eventually he did come to bed, without touching me or looking at what I had hidden under the covers. And I rolled over and went to sleep crying with my thong still on.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Not to mention how stupid one feels trying to be vocal with a partner who is unaffected or put off by it.
> 
> Curious has tried all these things and more. One of her more hurtful attempts involved her making dinner in just a short t shirt. I can't remember exactly, it seemed she ended up crying in her bedroom while he dozed off watching tv or something.
> 
> Curious has tried everything that anyone has mentioned. And more. She somehow keeps thinking of ways to up this game. I feel very defensive of her when she's told to act more ****ty or dress more provocative. She has. She does. If it didn't work the first 10 times every time after that just makes you feel worse about yourself.


Thank you Scarlett. *hugs*

You are so right. At this point when I try to be provocative, it just seems to rub in the fact that he isn't interested. It hurts.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I mentioned posting what Charlie quoted to my husband last night and he so seriously stated how sorry he was that I ever felt that way. We were reminded of the time I asked him if this is how people end up divorced. He didn't want sex, he was irritable all the time, I thought it was me and the kids, I feared that one day he will realize he doesn't want to be with us and leave. He thought I was trying to convince him to divorce me but he wasn't doing it. 

Just wanted to share how it got dark and lonely. The only way we got thru is talk, talk, talk. And yes some of those times it felt like I had said too much and was left feeling exposed and raw but that had to be. Funny thing is we really were still each others support and best friend but we just both felt so raw that every move hurt. But we both kept fighting for us, even though I questioned if he was fighting or just ignoring the facts but looking back I can see he really was doing what he could, he just didn't know what to do.

Curious~ if you printed out the plan like the one on the art of manliness where the guy doubles his testosterone in 90 days and asked him if you could try this together (it won't double your T ) would he do it with you? I have a condensed version I could e-mail you. No special formulas. If not now when you think he might be ready you can always tell me you want the condensed one page version. I'm rooting for you!

I told my jusband last night that I wish I would have had somebody tell me that there was hope and his response was now you can be that person for someone else.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thank you Scarlett. *hugs*
> 
> You are so right. At this point when I try to be provocative, it just seems to rub in the fact that he isn't interested. It hurts.


Like a knife twisting in your heart! And when your this raw every little time they ignore you it hurts to the core.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As far as how we are going, it's hard to tell. 

I think we are doing pretty good right now. We have been going at it every other day again, so that's an improvement over once a week.

We are getting along well, and he went out of his way to snuggle me a lot last night. Our friends are home for the summer again, so we have been going out more, being social, and we have also been working a lot on house projects.

Spirits are high right now, because you feel a lot better when your doing things, rather than laying on the couch every evening. 

I finished school, so now my stress is so much better, besides the fact that I won't have to waste my evenings going to school.

Baseball has started, which is good for husband to get out and be more active, but bad for me since he will be gone a couple evenings a week.

My best friend is moving to a different country again this week and I am sad.  But besides that things are going pretty well.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

the2ofus you can send it to me, but I don't think husband is quite ready to do anything about his T yet.

He has been nicer to me lately though, so you never know. He might read it and try it.


----------



## Dredd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This idea you had forever ago, is great. You should put it into practice. He needs a taste of his own medicine.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Dredd~ It seems he's finishing her off now!

Curious~ It sounds to me like he is trying! Feel loved by his efforts, yeah maybe it's not as passionate as you'd like but he is trying, out of love for you! The passion won't be cosistently there until the drive is there. He's trying, reward that effort, whether it is verbally or by things you do. Make it worth the effort and he'll give more effort. But if his effort equals you still not being happy, he'll say why bother! If his T is low a little effort will feel like a lot to him.

My husband told me to come tell you, "it's not you, it's really not you. He's wrestling with something that he doesn't know what it is, may not even realize he's wrestling with it yet. Just know it's not you."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Dredd~ It seems he's finishing her off now!
> 
> Curious~ It sounds to me like he is trying! Feel loved by his efforts, yeah maybe it's not as passionate as you'd like but he is trying, out of love for you! The passion won't be cosistently there until the drive is there. He's trying, reward that effort, whether it is verbally or by things you do. Make it worth the effort and he'll give more effort. But if his effort equals you still not being happy, he'll say why bother! If his T is low a little effort will feel like a lot to him.
> 
> My husband told me to come tell you, "it's not you, it's really not you. He's wrestling with something that he doesn't know what it is, may not even realize he's wrestling with it yet. Just know it's not you."


Thank you. I really realized this last night.

He initiated again. And although he was having problems staying hard and didn't seem to be enjoying it that much (he didn't say that) he tried really hard and made it all about me. He made sure to satisfy me, even though we had some difficulties and I wanted him to stop. 

It means a lot that he put the effort in and cared enough to still want to take care of my needs even though he wasn't getting much out of it.

I do and did tell him I really appreciate it.

Your right the passion just isn't there, but he is trying.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Dredd said:


> This idea you had forever ago, is great. You should put it into practice. He needs a taste of his own medicine.
> 
> "_Karole I'm thinking in the near future when I'm either giving him a blow job or PIV that just when he is about over the edge I will just stop and say, "Okay. Your 5 minutes is up. Sorry it's taking too long."_"


We are past those days, praise the Lord!

He never gives me a "time limit" or purposely acts like it is a chore anymore.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I found this site (talk about marriage) googling "loss of penile sensitivity". Someone had asked about this and someone else had mentioned getting T checked so we looked at the symptoms and went, oh my goodness that's it. When it first started it took a while for him to share the loss of sensitivity with me, it took a while for him to even share the troubles of keeping hard with me. So from where i'm at it looks like things are moving forward hang in there.

In the book the hardness factor it says to take arginine cause that creates nitric oxide which is part of an erection. Anyways it REALLY helps and him being hard makes it easier for me to get there also. Arginine also helps with muscle recovery after working out. We make a "sports" drink. Here is the powdered form we use, we put it in his water with magnesium, they are both lemon flavored, stevia sweetened. https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swa...-powder-lemon-flavored-350-grams-12-3-oz-pwdr. Here is the magnesium we use. https://www.swansonvitamins.com/natural-vitality-natural-calm-raspberry-lemon-flavor-8-oz-pwdr Maybe you should take him a homemade sports drinks for baseball. Our son who is weightlifting with dh puts a little lemonade powder in it cause too much magnesium and it will clean you out, plus it sweetens it up a little!


----------



## MzLurker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My husband has the LD and it's been a long time. I'm not 100% sure how we got here, but we're here now, and it sucks. 

He says when I bring up sex it turns him off and I've (recently) even tried the scenario where I wear something slinky. He complimented me and said I looked great and very sexy, and I tried to continue the flirtation, but nothing came of it. If I wait until he makes a move, I could be waiting months.

Maybe the statement is true, wherever there is a beautiful woman, somewhere there's a guy who's tired of being with her. Does this just happen over time?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Look up low T and see if he matches the symptoms?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just wanted to update.

Sex has been very plain and routine. We tried a couple new positions and just couldn't get things to work right, and we are just stuck in a passionless rut. He hasn't been very hard either, and it does make me feel like I'm doing something wrong. 

But besides the sex being bad we have been doing great. He has been initiating every other day. We've taken showers together, he is snugly and has been giving me loads of compliments and just generally being nice. He hasn't been "covering up" when he is changing or showering. In fact last night he asked me to come sit in the bathroom and talk to him while he showered, and he left the curtain open. 

I got up an hour early this morning with him and cooked him breakfast, and we chit chatted and spent some nice time together.

Just simple things like dancing in the kitchen this morning and laughing, or flirting and grabbing me provocatively. I love it.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If you're still on an every two day roll, that may be why he isn't fully hard. It probably wouldn't be too often for a lot of 20something guys but if he's low T I guess it could?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> If you're still on an every two day roll, that may be why he isn't fully hard. It probably wouldn't be too often for a lot of 20something guys but if he's low T I guess it could?


That's what I thought. But he wasn't hard the first time we had sex after a several day break either. So I don't know what the deal is. He initiates and act like he wants to have sex, but his body doesn't cooperate. We rarely/never have this problem anymore, until now.

:scratchhead:

Period week is coming up and he will have a break, so we'll see what happens after that. He might just need a recharge.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Very likely. If he's LD for whatever reason, he isn't getting the time he needs to build a strong desire. Even being HD and wanting to do it A LOT, sometimes that true lustful desire isn't there. Doesn't mean I don't WANT to do it, though.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Just wanted to update.
> 
> Sex has been very plain and routine. We tried a couple new positions and just couldn't get things to work right, and we are just stuck in a passionless rut. He hasn't been very hard either, and it does make me feel like I'm doing something wrong.
> 
> But besides the sex being bad we have been doing great. He has been initiating every other day. We've taken showers together, he is snugly and has been giving me loads of compliments and just generally being nice. He hasn't been "covering up" when he is changing or showering. In fact last night he asked me to come sit in the bathroom and talk to him while he showered, and he left the curtain open.
> 
> I got up an hour early this morning with him and cooked him breakfast, and we chit chatted and spent some nice time together.
> 
> Just simple things like dancing in the kitchen this morning and laughing, or flirting and grabbing me provocatively. I love it.


You sure you weren't dreaming? Better spin that totem a few times


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Very likely. If he's LD for whatever reason, he isn't getting the time he needs to build a strong desire. Even being HD and wanting to do it A LOT, sometimes that true lustful desire isn't there. Doesn't mean I don't WANT to do it, though.


Very true, and I appreciate it a lot. It tells me even though he isn't in the mood, he still knows that I desire sex, and he is willing to do it because he cares about my needs. :smthumbup:

That is quite a step forward for him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> You sure you weren't dreaming? Better spin that totem a few times


I know!

I wake up later than him, but he always tries to talk to me or snuggle in the morning, and I'm like half delirious and groggy. The last couple morning I'm pretty sure I've caught him strutting around naked. I just smile at him and then... :sleeping:

Then later on when I wake up I can never remember if I dreamed it, or if he really did it. But I'm pretty sure I haven't been dreaming. lol


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It is good to hear things are going better.

And remember it is not your fault, you are not doing anything wrong.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Just wanted to update.
> 
> Sex has been very plain and routine. We tried a couple new positions and just couldn't get things to work right, and we are just stuck in a passionless rut. He hasn't been very hard either, and it does make me feel like I'm doing something wrong.
> 
> But besides the sex being bad we have been doing great. He has been initiating every other day. We've taken showers together, he is snugly and has been giving me loads of compliments and just generally being nice. He hasn't been "covering up" when he is changing or showering. In fact last night he asked me to come sit in the bathroom and talk to him while he showered, and he left the curtain open.
> 
> I got up an hour early this morning with him and cooked him breakfast, and we chit chatted and spent some nice time together.
> 
> Just simple things like dancing in the kitchen this morning and laughing, or flirting and grabbing me provocatively. I love it.


Sounds too good to be true. Even if he is not hard, all the other stuff still makes you feel loved and desired. And that has got to feel good.

Yup, sometimes that feeling of being connected in a loving playful way is a very good feeling indeed. Enjoy it!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well boo hoo.

Got rejected yesterday for the first time in a while. I had started to forget how much it stung. It's been 4 days since sex, and now it's period time again, so that means he will probably keep me waiting for another week.  I just don't understand how he can go without for that long, I sure can't.

Trying not to get depressed about it. Things have been going good, so I'd hate to let this set us back. But I'm not going to lie, it's hard not to be upset. 

He is still leaving me notes every morning, and complimenting me daily. 

Although last night when he was trying to be sweet I really wanted to get sassy after he rejected me. He said something like, "your so sexy" and all I could think was, "THEN WHY WON'T YOU HAVE SEX WITH ME!?"

I kept my mouth shut though, so I guess that's an improvement. Trying to be positive, and not throw away all our progress. So help me if he asks for a blow job though, I'm going to snap.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well boo hoo.
> 
> Got rejected yesterday for the first time in a while. I had started to forget how much it stung. It's been 4 days since sex, and now it's period time again, so that means he will probably keep me waiting for another week.  I just don't understand how he can go without for that long, I sure can't.
> 
> Trying not to get depressed about it. Things have been going good, so I'd hate to let this set us back. But I'm not going to lie, it's hard not to be upset.
> 
> He is still leaving me notes every morning, and complimenting me daily.
> 
> Although last night when he was trying to be sweet I really wanted to get sassy after he rejected me. He said something like, "your so sexy" and all I could think was, "THEN WHY WON'T YOU HAVE SEX WITH ME!?"
> 
> I kept my mouth shut though, so I guess that's an improvement. Trying to be positive, and not throw away all our progress. So help me if he asks for a blow job though, I'm going to snap.


I understand you feel hurt and rejected. But things have really improved. Check this out.

1) He says "your so sexy" .. when sometime earlier he said "your not very sexy" (causing you to search for a way to become sexy). Hint, you did not change, he just started being honest rather than trying to manipulate you.

2) You went for quite a while without any rejection. :smthumbup::smthumbup:

3) You no longer give BJ without anything in return.

4) He leaves you notes.

5) He complements you

6) Did you say you were showering together and he is not hiding behind a robe??? :smthumbup:

Yup, things have improved. Don't let one rejection ruin your day / week. I know that the timing is just bad this time. But there is a lot of hope for keeping the good times rolling. This is just a "pause."

Did you get a toy? If you did then this is probably a good time to experiment with the toy.


----------



## treyvion

fightforher said:


> I understand you feel hurt and rejected. But things have really improved. Check this out.
> 
> 1) He says "your so sexy" .. when sometime earlier he said "your not very sexy" (causing you to search for a way to become sexy). Hint, you did not change, he just started being honest rather than trying to manipulate you.
> 
> 2) You went for quite a while without any rejection. :smthumbup::smthumbup:
> 
> 3) You no longer give BJ without anything in return.
> 
> 4) He leaves you notes.
> 
> 5) He complements you
> 
> 6) Did you say you were showering together and he is not hiding behind a robe??? :smthumbup:
> 
> Yup, things have improved. Don't let one rejection ruin your day / week. I know that the timing is just bad this time. But there is a lot of hope for keeping the good times rolling. This is just a "pause."
> 
> Did you get a toy? If you did then this is probably a good time to experiment with the toy.


What did she do to turn this around? I remember she was givings unreciprocated oral and not pleased
sexally.

Taking bjs away did this?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Treyvion,

More than just withholding BJ. She talked to him about a lot of things and encouraged him to read a book. She repeatedly talked to him about her hurt feelings, and communicated her desires to him.

Taking away BJ alone would have just left them a sexless couple probably. She had to step up to the plate and gently tell him he was selfish and had to offer her something in return. But yes, taking away the BJ seem to get his attention.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I understand you feel hurt and rejected. But things have really improved. Check this out.
> 
> 1) He says "your so sexy" .. when sometime earlier he said "your not very sexy" (causing you to search for a way to become sexy). Hint, you did not change, he just started being honest rather than trying to manipulate you.
> 
> 2) You went for quite a while without any rejection. :smthumbup::smthumbup:
> 
> 3) You no longer give BJ without anything in return.
> 
> 4) He leaves you notes.
> 
> 5) He complements you
> 
> 6) Did you say you were showering together and he is not hiding behind a robe??? :smthumbup:
> 
> Yup, things have improved. Don't let one rejection ruin your day / week. I know that the timing is just bad this time. But there is a lot of hope for keeping the good times rolling. This is just a "pause."
> 
> Did you get a toy? If you did then this is probably a good time to experiment with the toy.


Yes, things are going up. Although he occasionally still calls me unsexy, and he still hides behind his robe sometimes. Not nearly as much as he used to. 

This week I will just try to make the best of a crappy situation. We can use the week for snuggling, and being close non-sexually. 

I know your going to roll your eyes, but no I have no bought the toy yet. I promise I do fully intend to get it. Hopefully sooner rather than later, but it just isn't a priority right now. Other things to buy. Not to fear though, I can still DIY without it. I have all this time, waiting a little longer isn't going to kill me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



treyvion said:


> What did she do to turn this around? I remember she was givings unreciprocated oral and not pleased sexually.
> 
> Taking bjs away did this?


I don't know if I would go as far to say that we are "turned around." Things have improved, but I would bet that this is only the beginning of a long journey. But I am happy with the progress we've made. Things are a lot better, although we still swing down and go through rough patches, and a lot of set backs, which is to be expected.

I think the main thing I did that changed our dynamic is that I stopped being a door mat. I stood up for myself! In a way I became meaner. I don't just smile and nod anymore, and pretend like everything is great then go cry myself to sleep. I put my foot down and told him no! No I will not give you a blow job, no it is not okay for you to expect me to follow all your rules, no I won't let you give me an IOU. 

When I started standing up for myself, I felt much better about myself. After a stopped letting him push me around, I started pushing back. I asked him for more things, I had many many conversations about what is and what isn't acceptable, and what I need. I pushed his boundaries, a little at a time.

I still don't think he fully grasps what I want and need. But he does try now, even if it isn't always exactly what I ask for. 

Taking away blow jobs was just a very small piece of the very complicated puzzle. I'm still learning everyday.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't know if I would go as far to say that we are "turned around." Things have improved, but I would bet that this is only the beginning of a long journey. But I am happy with the progress we've made. Things are a lot better, although we still swing down and go through rough patches, and a lot of set backs, which is to be expected.
> 
> I think the main thing I did that changed our dynamic is that I stopped being a door mat. I stood up for myself! In a way I became meaner. I don't just smile and nod anymore, and pretend like everything is great then go cry myself to sleep. I put my foot down and told him no! No I will not give you a blow job, no it is not okay for you to expect me to follow all your rules, no I won't let you give me an IOU.
> 
> When I started standing up for myself, I felt much better about myself. After a stopped letting him push me around, I started pushing back. I asked him for more things, I had many many conversations about what is and what isn't acceptable, and what I need. I pushed his boundaries, a little at a time.
> 
> I still don't think he fully grasps what I want and need. But he does try now, even if it isn't always exactly what I ask for.
> 
> Taking away blow jobs was just a very small piece of the very complicated puzzle. I'm still learning everyday.


So you're saying it was the blow jobs? 

Glad things are looking up somewhat. Keep on him (literally and figuratively).


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



> What did she do to turn this around? I remember she was givings unreciprocated oral and not pleased
> sexally.
> 
> Taking bjs away did this?


No!

I agree with others, you have done so much, standing up for yourself was a part of it but definitely not the whole picture.

Hang in there! It really could be a beautiful thing someday. Some may not believe it but truly I would not trade where we are now for anything. My husband will joke about being re-membered cause his jr member is working again. He chuckles after we make love so thrilled everything is working again. I'm keeping up but barely. I remember thinking I would never have a passionate love life again, I was stuck, far from it. It just needed patience, and lots of heart to hearts being willing to make myself vulnerable.

One more recent story. The other day I decided to pull out a piece of lingerie I had bought in my quest for some kind of response, the only time I had worn it the night ended with me in a puddle of tears. I decided to give it one more try before putting it in the give away bag. Rave reviews this time, same outfit, same me, only differnece is this man had back a libido.

Remeber it's not you! Hang in there.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> One more recent story. The other day I decided to pull out a piece of lingerie I had bought in my quest for some kind of response, the only time I had worn it the night ended with me in a puddle of tears. I decided to give it one more try before putting it in the give away bag. Rave reviews this time, same outfit, same me, only differnece is this man had back a libido.
> 
> Remeber it's not you! Hang in there.


I'm still struggling with making myself vulnerable. I'm still usually too scared to initiate, be overtly sexual, or wear lingerie. My heart is still raw, and I'm just not ready to stick it out there again. 

I know he would like me to wear the thong I bought, but after last time of him not noticing or caring, and me crying myself to sleep I'm just not ready to try it again. 

So I sit back, and continue to be "cool" about sex. I don't push for it, or bring it up continuously. I don't act overly interested. It seems to work better for us, because then he doesn't feel as pressured, and I don't feel as rejected. 

Like last night. I couldn't sleep. All I could think about was sex, and I tossed and turned over and over. He asked me why I couldn't sleep and I wanted to say, "because I'm so horny." But I couldn't get the words out. It was late, he had already rejected me, and I couldn't rationalize a good reason to bring it back up. So I just let it go.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes, things are going up. Although he occasionally still calls me unsexy, and he still hides behind his robe sometimes. Not nearly as much as he used to.
> 
> This week I will just try to make the best of a crappy situation. We can use the week for snuggling, and being close non-sexually.
> 
> I know your going to roll your eyes, but no I have no bought the toy yet. I promise I do fully intend to get it. Hopefully sooner rather than later, but it just isn't a priority right now. Other things to buy. Not to fear though, I can still DIY without it. I have all this time, waiting a little longer isn't going to kill me.


The changes in the interaction helped create a new IMAGE how you interact with him and it got you closer to happiness.

I'm sure there is a bit more that you want, even upping your physical image to him, but you have to protect that as well. 

I'm not sure if the unsexy comment is to get you to drop your level or maybe you are slightly out of what he thinks is sexy.

Still can improve it and protect it by dress, getting in very good shape, and controlling what he sees and how he sees you.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm still struggling with making myself vulnerable. I'm still usually too scared to initiate, be overtly sexual, or wear lingerie. My heart is still raw, and I'm just not ready to stick it out there again.
> 
> I know he would like me to wear the thong I bought, but after last time of him not noticing or caring, and me crying myself to sleep I'm just not ready to try it again.
> 
> So I sit back, and continue to be "cool" about sex. I don't push for it, or bring it up continuously. I don't act overly interested. It seems to work better for us, because then he doesn't feel as pressured, and I don't feel as rejected.
> 
> Like last night. I couldn't sleep. All I could think about was sex, and I tossed and turned over and over. He asked me why I couldn't sleep and I wanted to say, "because I'm so horny." But I couldn't get the words out. It was late, he had already rejected me, and I couldn't rationalize a good reason to bring it back up. So I just let it go.


Sounds like you are dwelling on this again. Perhaps you are feeling a little down from the rejection and you are thinking about the hurt right now. Sounds like you don't feel very much in control again.

I can also relate to the tossing and turning at night and not being able to say "because I'm so horny." Saying something just open one up for sympathy or deeper rejection. Either way, it does not seem like saying something at that point is going to turn things around. However, I will say that looking at it objectively, saying something like that would be honest.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Sounds like you are dwelling on this again. Perhaps you are feeling a little down from the rejection and you are thinking about the hurt right now. Sounds like you don't feel very much in control again.
> 
> I can also relate to the tossing and turning at night and not being able to say "because I'm so horny." Saying something just open one up for sympathy or deeper rejection. Either way, it does not seem like saying something at that point is going to turn things around. However, I will say that looking at it objectively, saying something like that would be honest.


The amount of work might be similar to how you put up boundaries to someone who used to take advantage of you. It's alot of work.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm still struggling with making myself vulnerable. I'm still usually too scared to initiate, be overtly sexual, or wear lingerie. My heart is still raw, and I'm just not ready to stick it out there again.
> 
> I know he would like me to wear the thong I bought, but after last time of him not noticing or caring, and me crying myself to sleep I'm just not ready to try it again.
> 
> So I sit back, and continue to be "cool" about sex. I don't push for it, or bring it up continuously. I don't act overly interested. It seems to work better for us, because then he doesn't feel as pressured, and I don't feel as rejected. L
> 
> Like last night. I couldn't sleep. All I could think about was sex, and I tossed and turned over and over. He asked me why I couldn't sleep and I wanted to say, "because I'm so horny." But I couldn't get the words out. It was late, he had already rejected me, and I couldn't rationalize a good reason to bring it back up. So I just let it go.


The only reason I was willing to try the lingerie is I knew he was horny.

What made the difference was not anything I did. Not even really what he did either, except he is working REALLY hard to get his T up. But first he had to figure out where the problem was. I knew his libido was a problem but he had to come to that realization. Talking over, and over, and over helped him see a pattern. He wanted me to be happy so he had to look for an answer. His reading the book and trying makes me feel he is interested in you being happy not just some game. Therefore I suggest if he asks the problem tell him it is hard dealing with rejection, hard knowing you won't get a chance to make that special connection again for a week. Yes further rejection hurts but thru the fire is the only way to fix it.

I did stop initiating and just told him "I need more but I'm not going to initiate anymore my heart just can't handle it.". I stopped wearing lingerie and told him why cause it hurt to put effort out there and be met with nothing. But he knew why I stopped doing these things, he always knew I hadn't lost interest.

Him making the effort to fix the T is what fixed our problem. He did not have it him to respond any differently, I was still his best friend, the only one he wanted, his body just didn't have the hormones needed to respond any differently.



treyvion said:


> Still can improve it and protect it by dress, getting in very good shape, and controlling what he sees and how he sees you.


Ignore, you don't need to do anything. It's simply not you. All these suggestions only brought me pain. These suggestions suugest he is just playing mind games, I really don't believe that to be true, especially with the hardness issue happening now.



fightforher said:


> Sounds like you are dwelling on this again. Perhaps you are feeling a little down from the rejection and you are thinking about the hurt right now. Sounds like you don't feel very much in control again.
> 
> I can also relate to the tossing and turning at night and not being able to say "because I'm so horny." Saying something just open one up for sympathy or deeper rejection. Either way, it does not seem like saying something at that point is going to turn things around. However, I will say that looking at it objectively, saying something like that would be honest.


At some point you have to say something, but at the time of feeling rejected may not be the best time (even though I often did). Maybe when you feel stronger and protected tell him or read him a letter from you of the pain it causes. You need to be ready for excuses this is something he is trying to come to terms with.

Again, it's not you! (Yes that's my mantra on this thread).


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yup, it is not you. I have to agree with the2ofus. You have been told all your life that guys only want one thing. Every TV show, every magazine everything points to guys wanting sex all the time. You are told all you have to do is put on lingerie, walk with a bit of wiggle and your guy will be all over you like water in a rain forest. Then you marry the exception and you are shocked and hurt. You think it is you. But it really is not. Hard to believe, but it is really not you.

Hang in there .. better times are coming.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks guys. I know it's not me. I know, no matter what I wear, what I do, what I say it just isn't going to make him desire me like I want him to. Because it's not something I can change or fix about myself. It's a change he is going to have to make on his own.

As for last night, I could have told him I was horny. But instead of just going with my emotions, which were hurt from the rejection I thought about what I was feeling and tried to rationalize what to do logically. The fact was there was really no point in telling him I was horny at midnight, after he had already dozed off and we were in bed for the night. 

If I thought it would start a productive conversation I would have told him. I just couldn't think of anything it would help, or any good reason, so I didn't. We were both tired, and by that point bringing it back up would have just hurt more feelings on both sides.

He knows I'm horny. I don't need to keep rubbing it in. If he does something that hurts my feelings, and there is a solution or I need to give him some direction then yes I will "call him out." But things have been going good lately, so I'm hoping this rejection was just the exception. Trying not to dwell on it or make it bigger than it is.

He is out jogging right now, but he promised me a belly rub and some snuggling when he got back. Along with a movie and popcorn. So bless his heart, he is trying, and I'm happy as I can be considering it's been 4 days since sex.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Yup, it is not you. I have to agree with the2ofus. You have been told all your life that guys only want one thing. Every TV show, every magazine everything points to guys wanting sex all the time. You are told all you have to do is put on lingerie, walk with a bit of wiggle and your guy will be all over you like water in a rain forest. Then you marry the exception and you are shocked and hurt. You think it is you. But it really is not. Hard to believe, but it is really not you.
> 
> Hang in there .. better times are coming.


:smthumbup:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yep, he is absolutely trying! Your thread is a reminder of so many feelings for me. It's a hard road and in the middle it can be so hard to think logically and see the love, you are doing well. Keep it up, I really believe it will change at some point.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks guys. I know it's not me. I know, no matter what I wear, what I do, what I say it just isn't going to make him desire me like I want him to. Because it's not something I can change or fix about myself. It's a change he is going to have to make on his own.
> 
> As for last night, I could have told him I was horny. But instead of just going with my emotions, which were hurt from the rejection I thought about what I was feeling and tried to rationalize what to do logically. The fact was there was really no point in telling him I was horny at midnight, after he had already dozed off and we were in bed for the night.
> 
> If I thought it would start a productive conversation I would have told him. I just couldn't think of anything it would help, or any good reason, so I didn't. We were both tired, and by that point bringing it back up would have just hurt more feelings on both sides.
> 
> He knows I'm horny. I don't need to keep rubbing it in. If he does something that hurts my feelings, and there is a solution or I need to give him some direction then yes I will "call him out." But things have been going good lately, so I'm hoping this rejection was just the exception. Trying not to dwell on it or make it bigger than it is.
> 
> He is out jogging right now, but he promised me a belly rub and some snuggling when he got back. Along with a movie and popcorn. So bless his heart, he is trying, and I'm happy as I can be considering it's been 4 days since sex.


Your whole attitude towards your relationship is very positive now. It's nice to see! And, you husband seems to be coming along nicely too! :smthumbup:

Our marriage was all but destroyed a couple of years back. After some soul searching, lots of conversations and brutal honesty we got it back and it's better than ever before! It can be done if both partners are willing and you guys have certainly broke the ice, so to speak.

Wishing you guys the best of luck and hope you have the same outcome!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Date night. 

Husband is taking me out to see Maleficent, his own idea. Sleeping Beauty is one of my favorite movies, so he knows I'd love to see it. He acts like he is as excited as I am, even though I know he doesn't like chick flicks. 

Tomorrow I'm meeting some long distance girl friends for breakfast, and then I'm going to spend the rest of the day relaxing with husband and doing house projects. Sounds like a great weekend. 

On a funny note, he invited me to watch him shower again last night. He has to keep the curtain half closed to keep the water from getting all over the floor. But every minute or so he would stick his bent leg out and slide his hands up it like a seductive woman. That is all I could see, and it was hilarious. 

:lol:

He also enjoyed sticking his rear out and giving me a wiggle, or ahem sticking other things out. Then he would lean over so I could see his face and flash me a grin and we would both start laughing. 

:rofl:

What a goof.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sounds like he's having fun with you again. That's awesome!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Date night.
> 
> Husband is taking me out to see Maleficent, his own idea. Sleeping Beauty is one of my favorite movies, so he knows I'd love to see it. He acts like he is as excited as I am, even though I know he doesn't like chick flicks.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm meeting some long distance girl friends for breakfast, and then I'm going to spend the rest of the day relaxing with husband and doing house projects. Sounds like a great weekend.
> 
> On a funny note, he invited me to watch him shower again last night. He has to keep the curtain half closed to keep the water from getting all over the floor. But every minute or so he would stick his bent leg out and slide his hands up it like a seductive woman. That is all I could see, and it was hilarious.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> He also enjoyed sticking his rear out and giving me a wiggle, or ahem sticking other things out. Then he would lean over so I could see his face and flash me a grin and we would both start laughing.
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> What a goof.


Truly a wonderful thing. Connecting with humor. Playing around like couples should do. Sacrificing for each others pleasure instead of being selfish. Truly awesome.

I am happy for you. Have a blast, you two deserve it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

BettyR~ sorry your in this situation!


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Yup, it is not you. I have to agree with the2ofus. You have been told all your life that guys only want one thing. Every TV show, every magazine everything points to guys wanting sex all the time. You are told all you have to do is put on lingerie, walk with a bit of wiggle and your guy will be all over you like water in a rain forest. Then you marry the exception and you are shocked and hurt. You think it is you. But it really is not. Hard to believe, but it is really not you.
> 
> Hang in there .. better times are coming.


The things is, guys have been told the same thing, and when you realize that you need more than just sex, all you have to do is look around to see just how unmanly you are, how weak you are, how unalpha you are...

I'm not sure it's all that big of an exception...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> The things is, guys have been told the same thing, and when you realize that you need more than just sex, all you have to do is look around to see just how unmanly you are, how weak you are, how unalpha you are...
> 
> I'm not sure it's all that big of an exception...


I am feeling dumb here. I don't quite follow you .. at least I don't think I do.

Yes, guys have been told the same thing. But are you talking about the guys that have been told that all they want is sex, and when they look at their own feelings it is missing? That is they are LD and can't relate to all the hype in the media? So then they feel unmanly and such?

Did I get it? Or am I not getting it?
Thanks in advance for explaining


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well this weekend has been a roller coaster ride. 

I was wrong about breakfast with the girlfriends, it's next weekend. Oops. 

Had a good time at the movies. Things were going good until Saturday... Saturday husband starts asking for a blow job. I tell him what needs of mine need to be met before, he refuses, so I refuse.

Then he starts promising things, "We'll have sex Monday & Tuesday... I'll give you oral in a couple days..." etc. I tell him NO! I told him straight up that he he always promises things, and never goes follows through with them, so I don't believe him anymore. He responds with, "but you never remind me. I promise I'll keep my word this time..."

"Sorry bud. I require payment in advance now." 

I must say, I felt really empowered to tell him no, and tell him exactly why it was no. 

Then his friend called and wanted to stay the night. Surprise, surprise. So I thought the weekend was doomed to end on a bad note. But I think once the boundaries were set, things started looking up.

We had a good time, husband was nice and still non-sexually intimate with me. He even came and slept with me instead of sleeping on the couch. I'm still receiving notes, and compliments daily.

Sunday was even better. We made out, and got pretty physical. Husband was actually pushing me to be handsy with him. (He usually doesn't like to me to touch him intimately unless we are actually having sex.) But I groped him all day, and we rolled around without clothes, and did lots of flirting, without me feeling pressured about giving him a blow job 

We almost had sex last night, but we decided to wait until today because last night we were both so exhausted. He slept only 3 hours on Saturday, and we went swimming, and had worked a lot on the house. 

But this evening we have a grand event planned with lingerie and candles, and our favorite dinner. I can barely wait!! I think this is the only time in months that I have actually been looking forward to having sex after period week. Usually I am too hurt and resentful by now. 

I do feel slightly bad for him. After 9 days of having no sex, and the entire weekend of flirting and touching I think he is walking about with a permanent stiffy. :rofl: I hope no one at work notices.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Very proud of you. You stuck to your guns, and explained your situation to him. You were empowered and equal, not a puppet doing him a favor. Does it feel great?

I am also glad to see that you two are being more playful and that builds the feelings up for having a good time later (i.e. sex). That is a big part of it. It is often more enjoyable if you don't have sex every day, but have some time to play and connect in an intimate way.

Have lots of fun. Enjoy :smthumbup:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sounds like the weekends ups and downs were well handled. A good marriage is not determined by no problems but by working thru them together. Coming back to a place of love.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yesterday was great. 

Had some great sex, went jogging, had ice cream after the jogging... haha.

It always amazes me how great sex feels after you haven't had it for a while. Can't wait for round two.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yesterday was great.
> 
> Had some great sex, went jogging, had ice cream after the jogging... haha.
> 
> It always amazes me how great sex feels after you haven't had it for a while. Can't wait for round two.


screw him like you own him. And he better know his job is to keep you pleased sexually! :smthumbup:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have fun!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He tries Treyvion, but I'm hard to keep up with. 

Right now our renewed intimacy has left me craving more.  Trying to keep my drive in check so I don't scare him off or pressure him. 

Oh how I dream of having sex more than once in a day or at night, and again when we wake up. But it's not ever going to happen, so I better just forget it and be content with what I got. Harder said than done.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He tries Treyvion, but I'm hard to keep up with.
> 
> Right now our renewed intimacy has left me craving more.  Trying to keep my drive in check so I don't scare him off or pressure him.
> 
> Oh how I dream of having sex more than once in a day or at night, and again when we wake up. But it's not ever going to happen, so I better just forget it and be content with what I got. Harder said than done.


Well they say that for men who initiate, with certain LD's the woman can feed off the mans drive.

There must be a way for him to feed off your drive and motivations...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Things are still moving forward.

Tuesday he invited me for an in the shower quickie. 

Last night he had a softball game, and we were suppose to meet at home around 9. (We drive separately. He rides with the team.) And he had been flirting, and had promised me sex when we got home. Well when I'm about home he calls me and says that the team wants to do something before he comes home, but it won't take too long.

So I get home, and wait, and wait. It's after 10pm before he pulls up. Of course I'm a little upset by now, it's late for sex, the mood is past, and I feel like he chose his friends over me.

He still wanted to fulfill his promise about sex, so I decide to give it a shot, even though I needed some warming up. In the end we had fun, and I'm glad I didn't let my disappointment ruin the night.

I'm really trying to work on my attitude, and trying to not let the smaller things bother me. I mean, it really didn't kill me to stay up a little later to have sex. And he wasn't trying to weasel his way out of it, like he used to. We had a fun night because I didn't let resentment get the best of me, and everything went much better. 

That man is freaking hilarious. Every Friday morning he has "Friday Jam." He gets up at 6am and blares obnoxious, loud, party music. I'm sleepy, and sometimes it irritates the crap out of me, but it's pretty hard not to laugh when he is dancing around in the buff doing moves like "the sprinkler" and "the running man."


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Take a bow CW. 

As for his 9 days without - that will teach him some empathy. 

As for refusing his request for a BJ, take a deep bow. He has consistently abused his 'credit line', so now it's all cash on the the barrel. 

Playful, strong, loving, restrained, tough. That's you. 

And that is a universally attractive package. 

Restraint - it's in my list yes? There is nothing more critical than this trait. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Well this weekend has been a roller coaster ride.
> 
> I was wrong about breakfast with the girlfriends, it's next weekend. Oops.
> 
> Had a good time at the movies. Things were going good until Saturday... Saturday husband starts asking for a blow job. I tell him what needs of mine need to be met before, he refuses, so I refuse.
> 
> Then he starts promising things, "We'll have sex Monday & Tuesday... I'll give you oral in a couple days..." etc. I tell him NO! I told him straight up that he he always promises things, and never goes follows through with them, so I don't believe him anymore. He responds with, "but you never remind me. I promise I'll keep my word this time..."
> 
> "Sorry bud. I require payment in advance now."
> 
> I must say, I felt really empowered to tell him no, and tell him exactly why it was no.
> 
> Then his friend called and wanted to stay the night. Surprise, surprise. So I thought the weekend was doomed to end on a bad note. But I think once the boundaries were set, things started looking up.
> 
> We had a good time, husband was nice and still non-sexually intimate with me. He even came and slept with me instead of sleeping on the couch. I'm still receiving notes, and compliments daily.
> 
> Sunday was even better. We made out, and got pretty physical. Husband was actually pushing me to be handsy with him. (He usually doesn't like to me to touch him intimately unless we are actually having sex.) But I groped him all day, and we rolled around without clothes, and did lots of flirting, without me feeling pressured about giving him a blow job
> 
> We almost had sex last night, but we decided to wait until today because last night we were both so exhausted. He slept only 3 hours on Saturday, and we went swimming, and had worked a lot on the house.
> 
> But this evening we have a grand event planned with lingerie and candles, and our favorite dinner. I can barely wait!! I think this is the only time in months that I have actually been looking forward to having sex after period week. Usually I am too hurt and resentful by now.
> 
> I do feel slightly bad for him. After 9 days of having no sex, and the entire weekend of flirting and touching I think he is walking about with a permanent stiffy. :rofl: I hope no one at work notices.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I wrote my previous post before reading this. 

Restraint - yes? It was the basis for success. 

This, as you have amply demonstrated is not avoidance. Avoidance is weakness, and you are not avoiding conflict. You simply aren't allowing your 'in the moment' emotions to drive destructive behavior. 

--------
A few nights ago, M2 and I were connecting. About 10 minutes into light foreplay she says something about an incident from earlier in the week. It was not funny and definitely not in line with 'the mood'. 

I just asked her: What chapter in your book on 'foreplay', suggests doing 'that'?

She shut up, smiled and got back to it. I could have gotten mad. Could have chosen to escalate and ruin the evening. Why do that? Instead we had a great time and fell asleep happy and relaxed. 

As for her behavior. It was an outlier. She very rarely does that. So it didn't warrant a post sex conversation. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Things are still moving forward.
> 
> Tuesday he invited me for an in the shower quickie.
> 
> Last night he had a softball game, and we were suppose to meet at home around 9. (We drive separately. He rides with the team.) And he had been flirting, and had promised me sex when we got home. Well when I'm about home he calls me and says that the team wants to do something before he comes home, but it won't take too long.
> 
> So I get home, and wait, and wait. It's after 10pm before he pulls up. Of course I'm a little upset by now, it's late for sex, the mood is past, and I feel like he chose his friends over me.
> 
> He still wanted to fulfill his promise about sex, so I decide to give it a shot, even though I needed some warming up. In the end we had fun, and I'm glad I didn't let my disappointment ruin the night.
> 
> I'm really trying to work on my attitude, and trying to not let the smaller things bother me. I mean, it really didn't kill me to stay up a little later to have sex. And he wasn't trying to weasel his way out of it, like he used to. We had a fun night because I didn't let resentment get the best of me, and everything went much better.
> 
> That man is freaking hilarious. Every Friday morning he has "Friday Jam." He gets up at 6am and blares obnoxious, loud, party music. I'm sleepy, and sometimes it irritates the crap out of me, but it's pretty hard not to laugh when he is dancing around in the buff doing moves like "the sprinkler" and "the running man."


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good. 

If need be, I imagine you could indulge in SVA - supplemental vibratory activity....

If you saturate him with desire, he will lose his desire for you. Again - restraint - keeps you from driving the marital ship up onto the shoals.



TheCuriousWife said:


> He tries Treyvion, but I'm hard to keep up with.
> 
> Right now our renewed intimacy has left me craving more.  Trying to keep my drive in check so I don't scare him off or pressure him.
> 
> Oh how I dream of having sex more than once in a day or at night, and again when we wake up. But it's not ever going to happen, so I better just forget it and be content with what I got. Harder said than done.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Take a bow CW.
> 
> As for his 9 days without - that will teach him some empathy.
> 
> As for refusing his request for a BJ, take a deep bow. He has consistently abused his 'credit line', so now it's all cash on the the barrel.
> 
> Playful, strong, loving, restrained, tough. That's you.
> 
> And that is a universally attractive package.
> 
> Restraint - it's in my list yes? There is nothing more critical than this trait.


Thanks!  I feel like last weekend I did a really good job at reinforcing boundaries. I stuck to them, and it had a happy ending for both of us.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> I wrote my previous post before reading this.
> 
> Restraint - yes? It was the basis for success.
> 
> This, as you have amply demonstrated is not avoidance. Avoidance is weakness, and you are not avoiding conflict. You simply aren't allowing your 'in the moment' emotions to drive destructive behavior.
> 
> --------
> A few nights ago, M2 and I were connecting. About 10 minutes into light foreplay she says something about an incident from earlier in the week. It was not funny and definitely not in line with 'the mood'.
> 
> I just asked her: What chapter in your book on 'foreplay', suggests doing 'that'?
> 
> She shut up, smiled and got back to it. I could have gotten mad. Could have chosen to escalate and ruin the evening. Why do that? Instead we had a great time and fell asleep happy and relaxed.
> 
> As for her behavior. It was an outlier. She very rarely does that. So it didn't warrant a post sex conversation.


Yes. I wasn't avoiding telling him I was upset because he got home an hour later than planned. I just realized it was irrational of me to be upset about it. He asked if he could do it, and I said yes because he was hanging out with a friend of his that lives far away, that was visiting. So it's the only time they will see each other this year.

It did hurt my feelings, but it shouldn't have. I think my feelings were more hurt because in the back of my mind I was remembering other times when he hung out with his friends super late, avoiding sex that he had promised me. But it isn't the case anymore. He has been trying really hard for months now to prove to me that he loves and enjoys taking care of my needs. It is wrong of me to keep bringing up or dwelling on his past behaviors. 

Taking your words, 

"I could have gotten mad. Could have chosen to escalate and ruin the evening. Why do that? Instead we had a great time and fell asleep happy and relaxed. "

:iagree:


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You absolutely did. 

One of the reasons M2 is so - hot - is that she's so controlled outside the bedroom. 

And one of the reasons she's still so into sex is that - if you had a video camera on us 7x24 you'd never guess that my drive is a LOT higher than hers. She knows because she asks me now and then. But she can't really tell from the way I act towards her. 

She knows I totally love her, because I'm very loving. I'm simply not that sexual towards her except when we're having sex. It's like the shirtless thing. She likes me shirtless. So - she can either look through the glass door of the shower, or she can have sex with me. 
Other than that, shirts on. It's not a treat if you can have it whenever you want. 

FWIW: on nights where we aren't having sex my showers are 2 minutes long. On sex nights - more like 20 minutes. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks!  I feel like last weekend I did a really good job at reinforcing boundaries. I stuck to them, and it had a happy ending for both of us.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
Has he ever tried Viagra? 

A couple quick comments on this topic:
- The more positive an experience the more frequently a person wants to do it?
- In general, the harder a man is at the moment of orgasm, the more intense and long lasting the orgasm is.
- The less angst a man has about hardness, the better

Viagra doesn't directly create desire. It does however make sex more physically pleasurable, more intense. This creates a Pavlovian feedback loop. 

Dosage:
- The 100 mg tablets would give a corpse an iron hard erection. They can also give a normal person a gigantic headache. 
- From what you have described, CW2 would likely find that buying 25 mg tablets and cutting them in half will make him rock hard and produce no side effects at all. 

If he takes a full (25 mg) tablet he will likely find that the effects last for 12 to 24 hours. He 'might' also want to go two rounds. But that's not the goal. The goal is to amplify that Pavlovian feedback loop you have going right now. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. I wasn't avoiding telling him I was upset because he got home an hour later than planned. I just realized it was irrational of me to be upset about it. He asked if he could do it, and I said yes because he was hanging out with a friend of his that lives far away, that was visiting. So it's the only time they will see each other this year.
> 
> It did hurt my feelings, but it shouldn't have. I think my feelings were more hurt because in the back of my mind I was remembering other times when he hung out with his friends super late, avoiding sex that he had promised me. But it isn't the case anymore. He has been trying really hard for months now to prove to me that he loves and enjoys taking care of my needs. It is wrong of me to keep bringing up or dwelling on his past behaviors.
> 
> Taking your words,
> 
> "I could have gotten mad. Could have chosen to escalate and ruin the evening. Why do that? Instead we had a great time and fell asleep happy and relaxed. "
> 
> :iagree:


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Things are still moving forward.
> 
> Tuesday he invited me for an in the shower quickie.


Nice ... the key words is *Invited*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Last night he had a softball game, and we were suppose to meet at home around 9. (We drive separately. He rides with the team.) And he had been flirting, and had promised me sex when we got home. Well when I'm about home he calls me and says that the team wants to do something before he comes home, but it won't take too long.
> 
> So I get home, and wait, and wait. It's after 10pm before he pulls up. Of course I'm a little upset by now, it's late for sex, the mood is past, and I feel like he chose his friends over me.
> 
> He still wanted to fulfill his promise about sex, so I decide to give it a shot, even though I needed some warming up. In the end we had fun, and I'm glad I didn't let my disappointment ruin the night.


Excellent job. Impressive. I can imagine it was hard on you, horny and waiting and remembering all the times he let you down and found his friends more entertaining than having sex with you. How that repeated hurt must have drummed in your mind. 

:smthumbup: for you to not let it kill the night. And another :smthumbup: for him to only spend one hour with his friends rather than several and force the night to be a kill joy.

Keep the good times rolling!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Excellent job. Impressive. I can imagine it was hard on you, horny and waiting and remembering all the times he let you down and found his friends more entertaining than having sex with you. *How that repeated hurt must have drummed in your mind. *
> 
> :smthumbup: for you to not let it kill the night. And another :smthumbup: for him to only spend one hour with his friends rather than several and force the night to be a kill joy.
> 
> Keep the good times rolling!


:iagree:

As for the highlighted, it is hard to not let the past effect our reaction, to just respond to the here and now! Good job!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> And one of the reasons she's still so into sex is that - if you had a video camera on us 7x24 you'd never guess that my drive is a LOT higher than hers. She knows because she asks me now and then. But she can't really tell from the way I act towards her.
> 
> She knows I totally love her, because I'm very loving. I'm simply not that sexual towards her except when we're having sex.* It's like the shirtless thing. She likes me shirtless. So - she can either look through the glass door of the shower, or she can have sex with me. Other than that, shirts on. It's not a treat if you can have it whenever you want. *


Have you ever considered that it might make her even hornier if she were to get to feast her eyes on you more often. Not saying it doesn't work for you, just saying I don't think that would work for everyone. Definitely not for me. I'd see it as manipualtion and that would not bring about deeper intimacy!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I guess walking around shirtless feels - a bit exhibitionist like to me. If you subtract M2 from the equation, nothing changes. 

I'm shy. Not manipulative. 




the2ofus said:


> Have you ever considered that it might make her even hornier if she were to get to feast her eyes on you more often. Not saying it doesn't work for you, just saying I don't think that would work for everyone. Definitely not for me. I'd see it as manipualtion and that would not bring about deeper intimacy!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I can see that! 

Another good example to communicate and not just ass-u-me the others motives.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think I'm shy too, but I has my morning tea in the buff  (I was expecting her to come back to the bed, but she said come out) It will have zero correlation to any sex later.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But Charlie has she said she wants to see you shirtless?!?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No offense taken.




the2ofus said:


> I can see that!
> 
> Another good example to communicate and not just ass-u-me the others motives.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes

If M2 asks me to do anything like that: shirt off, whatever, I smile and comply. 

I don't deprive her. Just not into flaunting the equipment. I wear a t-shirt at the beach unless I'm swimming. Like I said, just shy. 




CharlieParker said:


> I see what you mean, no not really. When she has asked I have generally obliged on the spot.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So you being you makes her want it more!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The2,
Long ago we had this neighbor. Friendly, handsome and very muscular. He had some real issues. He openly made a pass at one of his wife's good friends. That friend and M2 were tight and she told M2. 

Bill said to me: We should have an affair, (and after a long awkward pause added) I'm not joking. 

And he uh - well he mowed his lawn shirtless. I don't know - I just always quietly laughed at that. 

I personally didn't think there was much to him beyond the buff upper body. His wife was loud and aggressive and a successful realtor. She was very much NOT fit. But she was the alpha in that house. 




the2ofus said:


> So you being you makes her want it more!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The sex it's self is still so so (not bad just routine) but everything else is wonderful. :smthumbup:

Hmm I just realized something. Husband is in the best shape he has ever been in. Jogging several times a week, playing softball a couple times a week, playing frisbee often... I wonder if all his exercise has anything to do his mood, and willingness to have sex. Very interesting. Maybe it boosted his T? :scratchhead:

Something to ponder.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
Is he making an effort to please you in bed? Routine is ok - so long as routine isn't selfish. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> The sex it's self is still so so (not bad just routine) but everything else is wonderful. :smthumbup:
> 
> Hmm I just realized something. Husband is in the best shape he has ever been in. Jogging several times a week, playing softball a couple times a week, playing frisbee often... I wonder if all his exercise has anything to do his mood, and willingness to have sex. Very interesting. Maybe it boosted his T? :scratchhead:
> 
> Something to ponder.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> Is he making an effort to please you in bed? Routine is ok - so long as routine isn't selfish.


Yes! He is still consistently pleasing me. He is making an effort. It's just, I don't know... The same old same old. It seems very robotic. Kiss here, touch there, etc. For both of us.

I have half a dozen books with ideas, but I guess we are both just very uncreative because we can never think of ways to spice things up. We've tried a couple new positions recently, but they didn't work out. It's not that I'm offering ideas and he is turning them down. I just can't think of anything fun to try, and he can't either. We are lameo. 

It's making me take longer because I get aroused, but it's hard for me to get excited enough to finish when we just do the same things.

He did do something the other day that was extremely sexy, but he stopped short, and I was too shy at the time to ask him to continue.  My bad.


----------



## MEM2020

Tell him the next time you start playing. Tell him you loved what he was doing,
If he did that longer ....

Is he getting and staying very hard?
If not is Viagra an option?




QUOTE=TheCuriousWife;9115370]Yes! He is still consistently pleasing me. He is making an effort. It's just, I don't know... The same old same old. It seems very robotic. Kiss here, touch there, etc. For both of us.

I have half a dozen books with ideas, but I guess we are both just very uncreative because we can never think of ways to spice things up. We've tried a couple new positions recently, but they didn't work out. It's not that I'm offering ideas and he is turning them down. I just can't think of anything fun to try, and he can't either. We are lameo. 

It's making me take longer because I get aroused, but it's hard for me to get excited enough to finish when we just do the same things.

He did do something the other day that was extremely sexy, but he stopped short, and I was too shy at the time to ask him to continue.  My bad.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Tell him the next time you start playing. Tell him you loved what he was doing,
> If he did that longer ....
> 
> Is he getting and staying very hard?
> If not is Viagra an option?


I will make sure to bring it up tonight during our fun time. 

He gets hard, occasionally he has trouble staying really hard. And we will have to "prime him back up" by hand a few times during the session. He refuses to try viagra, although I have suggested it several times.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes! He is still consistently pleasing me. He is making an effort. It's just, I don't know... The same old same old. It seems very robotic. Kiss here, touch there, etc. For both of us.
> 
> I have half a dozen books with ideas, but I guess we are both just very uncreative because we can never think of ways to spice things up. We've tried a couple new positions recently, but they didn't work out. It's not that I'm offering ideas and he is turning them down. I just can't think of anything fun to try, and he can't either. We are lameo.
> 
> It's making me take longer because I get aroused, but it's hard for me to get excited enough to finish when we just do the same things.
> 
> He did do something the other day that was extremely sexy, but he stopped short, and I was too shy at the time to ask him to continue.  My bad.


He is working on it. And all the exercise is good for him and probably has an effect on his drive.

But communication is what you need now. The example you just gave of to "shy" to ask him to continue. Now you have left him not knowing that was good.

Bring it up again. Or if you are still shy about it, write it in a little note and give it to him for him to read. Let him know that you are shy about these sort of things, and that you would appreciate him letting you know it is ok to share these intimate feelings and desires.

Who know, he may even tell you something that he finds "good" but is too shy to tell you until you go first.

So, go first, and break the ice. He is your husband .. and with any luck he is your husband for the next 100 years (so you better break the ice now).


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
When you tell him what you want, I expect you'll get a positive response. 

If you don't. 

CW: (puzzled head tilt, slightly confused tone) You don't seem happy about me telling you what I want. 
CW2: No, it's fine (tone indicating just the opposite)
CW: (smiling now) It's odd, but you look so similar to, hell, you could be the twin brother of this guy who casually tells me when he wants a BJ. I bet THAT guy, would be happy to get requests like this, cause he sure isn't shy about making them himself. 

And then STHU. There's no way out of the hypocrites maze. So toss him in there and let him squirm. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> I will make sure to bring it up tonight during our fun time.
> 
> He gets hard, occasionally he has trouble staying really hard. And we will have to "prime him back up" by hand a few times during the session. He refuses to try viagra, although I have suggested it several times.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well guys I did tell him what I wanted last night. He was happy to oblige.  I don't know why I suddenly got shy the other day, silly me.

We also found a new fun position. Although I have to be careful with it, because I got too eager and cut our fun short.  I hate it when I accidentally make him lose it. Then he feels bad, which makes me feel bad. Arg.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

A. 

B. he may feel bad but does he still take care of you?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's just part of learning and growing together. Those are the times you'll talk about with fondness years from now!. So happy for you!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> A.
> 
> B. he may feel bad but does he still take care of you?


He tries. But it usually doesn't work. He doesn't lack effort or anything, it's just I get turned on when he is aroused, so if he is done, I have trouble getting there myself.  Weird I know. It's my fault not his.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well guys I did tell him what I wanted last night. He was happy to oblige.  I don't know why I suddenly got shy the other day, silly me.
> 
> We also found a new fun position. Although I have to be careful with it, because I got too eager and cut our fun short.  I hate it when I accidentally make him lose it. Then he feels bad, which makes me feel bad. Arg.


Horray, you spoke up, and the world did not cave in, but quite the opposite. 

Good exploring. Sort of takes the "rut" out of it. :smthumbup:

Well, this certainly goes against all the past thoughts that has run thru your head. Now you are miss sexy that can get what you deserve and drive him uncontrollably. Not bad .. Especially when you look at where you came from.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Horray, you spoke up, and the world did not cave in, but quite the opposite.
> 
> Good exploring. Sort of takes the "rut" out of it. :smthumbup:
> 
> Well, this certainly goes against all the past thoughts that has run thru your head. Now you are miss sexy that can get what you deserve and drive him uncontrollably. Not bad .. Especially when you look at where you came from.


:smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well yesterday was... weird.

Husband still hasn't finished reading "the sex starved marriage." It got put away during cleaning, and out of sight out of mind I guess. I forgot about it too. Well I found it yesterday and when I reminded him to finish it, he said no. He said it was boring and he was getting nothing out of it. So of course we argued about.

His friend is staying the night tonight and possibly tomorrow as well. So surprisingly husband offered to have sex last night, in case we don't get to this weekend. That's two days in a row! 

I was shocked frankly. Usually if we know we aren't going to get time in the next few days, it's just too bad and we skip all that time. But he actually wanted to pay ahead instead of giving me an I owe you. 

The only two day sex I have ever gotten, is quickies, aka no foreplay, and no O for me. 

So the good news is, I had my first ever orgasm two days in a row!! :smthumbup:

The bad news is, the sex was crappy. Like horrible. I can't believe I actually was able to finish. 

My lung disease was acting up, and I coughed the entire time and couldn't breath. And I was so tight, that we had to wait over 30 minutes before PIV, and even then it hurt. 

I hate to say it, but it was boring. I was soured from our earlier argument, and husband was just blah. He fell completely asleep on me several times.  After like the 4th time I picked up his hand, pushed him off of me, and sat up because it ticked me off and the sex was so bad I'd rather just have stopped. But it woke him up and of course he apologized and felt bad and wanted to keep going despite my protests. 

All in all, it sucked. After that, I doubt husband will be offering to have sex two days in a row again sadly.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well yesterday was... weird.
> 
> Husband still hasn't finished reading "the sex starved marriage." It got put away during cleaning, and out of sight out of mind I guess. I forgot about it too. Well I found it yesterday and when I reminded him to finish it, he said no. He said it was boring and he was getting nothing out of it. So of course we argued about.
> 
> His friend is staying the night tonight and possibly tomorrow as well. So surprisingly husband offered to have sex last night, in case we don't get to this weekend. That's two days in a row!
> 
> I was shocked frankly. Usually if we know we aren't going to get time in the next few days, it's just too bad and we skip all that time. But he actually wanted to pay ahead instead of giving me an I owe you.
> 
> The only two day sex I have ever gotten, is quickies, aka no foreplay, and no O for me.
> 
> So the good news is, I had my first ever orgasm two days in a row!! :smthumbup:
> 
> The bad news is, the sex was crappy. Like horrible. I can't believe I actually was able to finish.
> 
> My lung disease was acting up, and I coughed the entire time and couldn't breath. And I was so tight, that we had to wait over 30 minutes before PIV, and even then it hurt.
> 
> I hate to say it, but it was boring. I was soured from our earlier argument, and husband was just blah. He fell completely asleep on me several times.  After like the 4th time I picked up his hand, pushed him off of me, and sat up because it ticked me off and the sex was so bad I'd rather just have stopped. But it woke him up and of course he apologized and felt bad and wanted to keep going despite my protests.
> 
> All in all, it sucked. After that, I doubt husband will be offering to have sex two days in a row again sadly.


How in the world do you fall asleep during sex????


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> How in the world do you fall asleep during sex????


I thought the same thing! 

Curious he did get something from the book because something changed and he seems to get that it's important to you. Sometimes after I get what a book is saying I need to do, I can find it boring too.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> How in the world do you fall asleep during sex????


I don't know. I never have. :scratchhead:

Husband falls asleep quite often. Almost anytime he is not thrusting. If he is just manually rubbing, he will fall asleep. Last night he was talking to me, and fell asleep.

Literately he will be stimulating me, and then he will just stop and I know he's fallen asleep. :sleeping:

This is while I am touching him as well. 

It makes me very upset. 

Which is why we usually do PIV the entire time, while he is rubbing, so at least I can keep his attention.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I thought the same thing!
> 
> Curious he did get something from the book because something changed and he seems to get that it's important to you. Sometimes after I get what a book is saying I need to do, I can find it boring too.


Yes. When he first started reading it, he said he was learning stuff, and he started acting different. More concerned about my sexual feelings. So I know he did get something out of it.

I have no idea why he was fighting about it yesterday.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It makes me sad that our sex is so boring that I can't even keep him awake. 

I guess I take too long to orgasm, but when he starts falling asleep it just makes me upset and I take even longer. Sigh.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If I were you, I would tell him that if he can focus on video games for hours at a time, he can certainly focus his attention on you while you are having sex. I would be grossly insulted if my husband fell asleep while we were having sex!


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Husband falls asleep quite often. Almost anytime he is not thrusting. If he is just manually rubbing, he will fall asleep


Okay CW, I've wanted to ask this for a while now. 

What on earth is he doing with his other hand/mouth/lips etc??

I'm picturing him just rubbing you (One handed) and doing nothing else. Is this correct?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> If I were you, I would tell him that if he can focus on video games for hours at a time, he can certainly focus his attention on you while you are having sex. I would be grossly insulted if my husband fell asleep while we were having sex!


:iagree:

Especially when he does it over and over, and he knows it makes me upset.

Last night when I was finished and I asked him how he wanted to finish he said he was a horrible husband and that he didn't deserve to get his because he fell asleep.  

If he feels so bad, maybe he should do something about it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Okay CW, I've wanted to ask this for a while now.
> 
> What on earth is he doing with his other hand/mouth/lips etc??
> 
> *I'm picturing him just rubbing you (One handed) and doing nothing else. Is this correct?*


BINGO.

He may kiss me a couple times, or touch somewhere else with his other hand for a couple minutes, but for the most part he just rubs me with one hand and lays there.

That's why I take so long, and why our sex is so boring. I hate it. I get so frustrated that sometimes I have to tell him, "this is not working, your going to have to do something differently." He will then kiss me, or touch me, but after a couple minutes he goes right back to one handed. I feel like a nag if I have to keep telling him.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> BINGO.
> 
> He may kiss me a couple times, or touch somewhere else with his other hand for a couple minutes, but for the most part he just rubs me with one hand and lays there.
> 
> That's why I take so long, and why our sex is so boring. I hate it. I get so frustrated that sometimes I have to tell him, "this is not working, your going to have to do something differently." He will then kiss me, or touch me, but after a couple minutes he goes right back to one handed. I feel like a nag if I have to keep telling him.


Oh boy......thanks for be so honest CW! 

I don't get some men, how on earth could he possibly think that's lovemaking?? :scratchhead:

He needs a mentor or something!!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Spouses hate reading books which are focused on their weaknesses.....





TheCuriousWife said:


> It makes me sad that our sex is so boring that I can't even keep him awake.
> 
> I guess I take too long to orgasm, but when he starts falling asleep it just makes me upset and I take even longer. Sigh.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Oh boy......thanks for be so honest CW!
> 
> I don't get some men, how on earth could he possibly think that's lovemaking?? :scratchhead:
> 
> He needs a mentor or something!!


I'm all about honesty. 

He doesn't know any better. I wish I could teach him, but I really don't know what to tell him. I need some men's perspective. Any ideas on suggestions for him?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It makes me sad that our sex is so boring that I can't even keep him awake.
> 
> I guess I take too long to orgasm, but when he starts falling asleep it just makes me upset and I take even longer. Sigh.





TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Especially when he does it over and over, and he knows it makes me upset.
> 
> Last night when I was finished and I asked him how he wanted to finish he said he was a horrible husband and that he didn't deserve to get his because he fell asleep.
> 
> If he feels so bad, maybe he should do something about it.





TheCuriousWife said:


> BINGO.
> 
> He may kiss me a couple times, or touch somewhere else with his other hand for a couple minutes, but for the most part he just rubs me with one hand and lays there.
> 
> That's why I take so long, and why our sex is so boring. I hate it. I get so frustrated that sometimes I have to tell him, "this is not working, your going to have to do something differently." He will then kiss me, or touch me, but after a couple minutes he goes right back to one handed. I feel like a nag if I have to keep telling him.





T&T said:


> Oh boy......thanks for be so honest CW!
> 
> I don't get some men, how on earth could he possibly think that's lovemaking?? :scratchhead:
> 
> He needs a mentor or something!!





TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm all about honesty.
> 
> He doesn't know any better. I wish I could teach him, but I really don't know what to tell him. I need some men's perspective. Any ideas on suggestions for him?


He needs T. Is there anything on the list of low T symptoms that might be of interest to him? Does he snore? If so he could have sleep apnea, that leads a man to be very tired and have low T. Low T by itself can also cause a man to be tired. My husbands hands were kind of boring for a while there (and he did know better) but now that is fixed to!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Is he willing to 69?

If you shower before sex does that make him more willing to give you oral? 




TheCuriousWife said:


> BINGO.
> 
> He may kiss me a couple times, or touch somewhere else with his other hand for a couple minutes, but for the most part he just rubs me with one hand and lays there.
> 
> That's why I take so long, and why our sex is so boring. I hate it. I get so frustrated that sometimes I have to tell him, "this is not working, your going to have to do something differently." He will then kiss me, or touch me, but after a couple minutes he goes right back to one handed. I feel like a nag if I have to keep telling him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> He needs T. Is there anything on the list of low T symptoms that might be of interest to him? Does he snore? If so he could have sleep apnea, that leads a man to be very tired and have low T. Low T by itself can also cause a man to be tired. My husbands hands were kind of boring for a while there (and he did know better) but now that is fixed to!



I've talked to him about the symptoms of low T, and he wasn't interested.

He wants more facial hair and more muscles, and I even tried to convince him that a T supplement would help, but he wouldn't go for it. 

He doesn't snore.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He doesn't know any better. I wish I could teach him, but I really don't know what to tell him. I need some men's perspective. Any ideas on suggestions for him?


Is it okay if a send you a PM after I dig some stuff up?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Is he willing to 69?
> 
> If you shower before sex does that make him more willing to give you oral?


He will do 69. We did last night for a few minutes, but it's usually a modified 69. I suck him, and he rubs me. 

He says I take too long for oral and that his mouth gets tired.

I shower 100% of the time before sex. So that's not an issue.

He also rubs quite roughly sometimes, and doesn't tease or anything. He goes straight for the clit and rubs it to death. I've shown him over and over how to be more gentle, and how I like it rubbed, but he says that way is too exhausting for more than a couple minutes. 

I think I am desensitized by all his rough and direct rubbing. If he teased longer, instead of going full force the entire time I feel like we would get somewhere faster.

When I masturbate it only takes a few minutes. But that is in the shower, so the stimulation is harder.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Is it okay if a send you a PM after I dig some stuff up?


Please do. I need some help!


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> He needs T. Is there anything on the list of low T symptoms that might be of interest to him? Does he snore? If so he could have sleep apnea, that leads a man to be very tired and have low T. Low T by itself can also cause a man to be tired. My husbands hands were kind of boring for a while there (and he did know better) but now that is fixed to!


He may need T, not sure. Awfully young for that, no? I don't know much about low T.

He also needs to learn how to make love to a woman...


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

T&T he is young but these things (early puberty for girls, low progesterone for women, low T for men) seem to be happening more and more frequently and not at the "normal" ages.

Curious~ I know he won't get it checked , I'm just saying you can try other things but don't get frustrated if they don't work cause he just may not have it in him. Seriously we had been married like 12 yrs and had great sex but when his levels sunk he seemed clueless like he had never done this before :scratchhead: and he was trying hard but......


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'll keep at him to get his levels checked.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I really don't think there is anything wrong with your husband, he just isn't that interested. You cant make a LD man be HD, try as you may it is not going to happen.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
He is seriously taking you for granted.....

None of what you describe is really ok. 

What was he like in bed before you got married?



TheCuriousWife said:


> He will do 69. We did last night for a few minutes, but it's usually a modified 69. I suck him, and he rubs me.
> 
> He says I take too long for oral and that his mouth gets tired.
> 
> I shower 100% of the time before sex. So that's not an issue.
> 
> He also rubs quite roughly sometimes, and doesn't tease or anything. He goes straight for the clit and rubs it to death. I've shown him over and over how to be more gentle, and how I like it rubbed, but he says that way is too exhausting for more than a couple minutes.
> 
> I think I am desensitized by all his rough and direct rubbing. If he teased longer, instead of going full force the entire time I feel like we would get somewhere faster.
> 
> When I masturbate it only takes a few minutes. But that is in the shower, so the stimulation is harder.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> He is seriously taking you for granted.....
> 
> None of what you describe is really ok.
> 
> What was he like in bed before you got married?


We waited until marriage for sex.

And yes, we still have lots of issues to work on. But believe me, we have came a LONG way. Things are continuing to improve, and I'm just trying to work on one problem at a time. Can't build Rome in one day.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Husband falls asleep quite often. Almost anytime he is not thrusting. If he is just manually rubbing, he will fall asleep. Last night he was talking to me, and fell asleep.


Is this sleep problem just during sex or at other times as well?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Is this sleep problem just during sex or at other times as well?


He falls asleep on the couch if he is watching movies at night. But not if he is doing something besides just sitting around.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He falls asleep on the couch if he is watching movies at night. But not if he is doing something besides just sitting around.


Any chance he has a sleep disorder? The odd hours and falling asleep might be symptomatic of something more (though it may just be him has bad sleep habits). You might want to see if you can get him checked out for that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Any chance he has a sleep disorder? The odd hours and falling asleep might be symptomatic of something more (though it may just be him has bad sleep habits). You might want to see if you can get him checked out for that.


Eh. I doubt there is something physically wrong with him. I know many people who fall asleep if they sit down and watch a movie.

If he is doing anything else he doesn't.


----------



## Dredd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you considered getting a T supplement and adding it to his food? See if it makes a difference? Or perhaps an herbal aphrodisiac from a health store?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Dredd said:


> Have you considered getting a T supplement and adding it to his food? See if it makes a difference? Or perhaps an herbal aphrodisiac from a health store?


I have considered sneaking him some T supplement. But I feel it would be dishonest.


----------



## I Don't Know

If he was calcium deficient and wouldn't address it would you feel dishonest putting a calcium supplement in his dinner?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Dredd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have considered sneaking him some T supplement. But I feel it would be dishonest.


I can see where your coming from. But from what I've read, he's not "against" them, just too embarrassed to go to the doctor, and doesn't care enough to go through the trouble.

You might consider it. I don't think you'd be going against his wishes, just "saving him the trouble" of trying to fix the problem  It would atleast tell you whether T is actually the issue.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Zinc and magnesium! Do it for him and his health not sex. Check out high zinc and high magnesium food and add more to your diets. Omega 3s help eat more salmon. Arginine helps with erections check out the foods for that. Healthy T levels are healthy. Unhealthy T levels are a sign of not being totally healthy and it can cause many, many problems. Even a celibate monk should have healthy T levels.

Another thing that helps T levels is the feeling of winning at something that is a challenge.

What kind of lung condition do you have?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

There is a formula for how much zinc they need, let me see if I can find it, it is much per lb of body weight. I do know my husband takes a pill 3xs a day plus all the dietary sources we do.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In the past I've tried to get him to take a multivitamin for men. I didn't even mention sex, I just said we should both start taking some vitamins for our health. But it was a big no. I'll try again.

I have a rare lung disease. I am one of 42 cases.  It has up to a 50% fatality rate, so I feel I am extremely blessed to be in the other 50%.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wow is it congenital or did it develop later on? You don't have to answer if I'm too nosey!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Wow is it congenital or did it develop later on? You don't have to answer if I'm too nosey!


I don't mind. It's quite fascinating actually. 

I was a little scared to post about it because I don't want to compromise my identity. But a quick google search reveals my name doesn't pop up, so it's all good.

What Is Plastic Bronchitis?

Here is very simple to read information about it.

Below are some more links which I found interesting. But it's pretty neat stuff. You can search for pictures, but do so at your own risk. They can be graphic.

Plastic bronchitis: bronchial casts mimicking foreign body aspiration - Pediatric Oncall Journal

Plastic bronchitis in children: a case seri... [Pediatr Pulmonol. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot to answer your question.

I had heart and lung problems as a kid. After heart surgery my lung problems seems to disappear. At age 12 I got horribly sick, and after more than a year of testing they diagnosed me with plastic bronchitis. A couple years after, during a minor heart surgery to figure out some sort of treatment, they found that my old heart repair had broken. So at 16 they fixed that, and my lung issues improved.

There isn't a whole lot of study on it, but they have seemed to find that it has something to do with heart problems. It is interesting that my lung problems improved after they fixed the heart problems, so it seems to be true.

I like to say I'm in "remission" now. I haven't been put into the hospital for almost 5 years now. (My longest.)

I do have flare ups from time to time, which cause pneumonia. So I'd say every few months it flares up and I get sick for a few weeks. Coughing, fever, no sleep. I get put on medicine to keep the infection and fever down, and take a breathing treatment and ride it out until I cough enough to clear my air ways. Then I feel okay again for a few more months. It's a never ending battle, but it's a lot better than it was. 

No treatment, just treat the symptoms, and ride it out.

Flare ups are usually caused by getting a cold or other sickness, or doing something especially dusty like cleaning out a shed, or from stress.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As an additional interesting tidbit, only one of my lungs have it, (probably why I'm doing as good as I am) and when x-rayed that lung is almost completely solid. 

I've had 2 open heart surgeries, 4 minor heart surgeries, 2 lung surgeries, and a pace maker.  And a whole lot of testing and hospital time. 

That said. If you seen me walking down the street I look completely normal. I only have signs when I am going through those couple weeks of sickness and coughing. All the other time, I'm pretty healthy. And I'm not restricted on any activities or anything anymore.

So it's not too bad, most of the time.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Do the doctors think as you get older the flare-ups will become less frequent?

Best of luck to you and take care of yourself!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Do the doctors think as you get older the flare-ups will become less frequent?
> 
> Best of luck to you and take care of yourself!


They aren't really sure. The disease is relatively new, so I think I'm one of the first that they use as a "test subject."


----------



## nikoo

TheCuriousWife said:


> They aren't really sure. The disease is relatively new, so I think I'm one of the first that they use as a "test subject."


May i ask how old you and your husband are?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What was your original heart issue? My friends son had heart surgery at 3 days old, it was pretty scary!

Do they have any concern of you having kids and the stress that could put on you?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



nikoo said:


> May i ask how old you and your husband are?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We are both in our twenties.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> What was your original heart issue? My friends son had heart surgery at 3 days old, it was pretty scary!
> 
> Do they have any concern of you having kids and the stress that could put on you?


Eh. I don't remember the technical name. 

I had a hole in my heart, and one of my veins was in the wrong place. 

They haven't ever mentioned anything about it causing too much stress. But it has been a concern of mine. I question if I am even fertile after all the medicines, x-rays, and problems.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well yesterday was... weird.
> 
> Husband still hasn't finished reading "the sex starved marriage." It got put away during cleaning, and out of sight out of mind I guess. I forgot about it too. Well I found it yesterday and when I reminded him to finish it, he said no. He said it was boring and he was getting nothing out of it. So of course we argued about.
> 
> His friend is staying the night tonight and possibly tomorrow as well. So surprisingly husband offered to have sex last night, in case we don't get to this weekend. That's two days in a row!
> 
> I was shocked frankly. Usually if we know we aren't going to get time in the next few days, it's just too bad and we skip all that time. But he actually wanted to pay ahead instead of giving me an I owe you.
> 
> The only two day sex I have ever gotten, is quickies, aka no foreplay, and no O for me.
> 
> So the good news is, I had my first ever orgasm two days in a row!! :smthumbup:
> 
> The bad news is, the sex was crappy. Like horrible. I can't believe I actually was able to finish.
> 
> My lung disease was acting up, and I coughed the entire time and couldn't breath. And I was so tight, that we had to wait over 30 minutes before PIV, and even then it hurt.
> 
> I hate to say it, but it was boring. I was soured from our earlier argument, and husband was just blah. He fell completely asleep on me several times.  After like the 4th time I picked up his hand, pushed him off of me, and sat up because it ticked me off and the sex was so bad I'd rather just have stopped. But it woke him up and of course he apologized and felt bad and wanted to keep going despite my protests.
> 
> All in all, it sucked. After that, I doubt husband will be offering to have sex two days in a row again sadly.


Sorry to hear that. Not all sex is good sex. When you force it, sometimes it turns out badly. Ok, that is not really helping at all, but I just wanted to set your expiation that every sexual encounter is not going to be fireworks.

I am looking at this probably from a little different view. He may have been tired, and really wanted to give you sex because he knew that the next two days were a no go. So, from my view it looks like he really loves you, wants to please you, but his body was not quite up to it this time. Thus the failure. And perhaps with your health it was a bit of a difficult time for you too.

Let me ask you was he pretty enthusiastic and loving before you guys started to make out? Was he tired from the day? Were you tired from a long day?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Sorry to hear that. Not all sex is good sex. When you force it, sometimes it turns out badly. Ok, that is not really helping at all, but I just wanted to set your expiation that every sexual encounter is not going to be fireworks.
> 
> I am looking at this probably from a little different view. He may have been tired, and really wanted to give you sex because he knew that the next two days were a no go. So, from my view it looks like he really loves you, wants to please you, but his body was not quite up to it this time. Thus the failure. And perhaps with your health it was a bit of a difficult time for you too.
> 
> Let me ask you was he pretty enthusiastic and loving before you guys started to make out? Was he tired from the day? Were you tired from a long day?


You are 100% right. He wanted to have sex, for me. So he was trying to show his love. But if he is that tired and uninterested I honestly would rather have no sex, than him fall asleep on me.

He wasn't very enthusiastic before. More like, okay lets get this done with. I wasn't tired. He said he was, but he still stayed up for another hour after sex, so he couldn't have been too tired.

I know he was trying to please me, I know I should be positive. I just hate feeling so boring. 

And to be honest, I was upbeat and positive to him. I didn't get upset or yell at him or anything. I just told him I'd rather not have sex if he was so sleepy and that we could wait. But he insisted to continue. He apologized after, and I apologized for being grumpy.

ETA: And to be clear, I didn't force sex. I told him I'd rather wait, and he forced it.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You are 100% right. He wanted to have sex, for me. So he was trying to show his love. But if he is that tired and uninterested I honestly would rather have no sex, than him fall asleep on me.
> 
> He wasn't very enthusiastic before. More like, okay lets get this done with. I wasn't tired. He said he was, but he still stayed up for another hour after sex, so he couldn't have been too tired.
> 
> I know he was trying to please me, I know I should be positive. I just hate feeling so boring.
> 
> And to be honest, I was upbeat and positive to him. I didn't get upset or yell at him or anything. I just told him I'd rather not have sex if he was so sleepy and that we could wait. But he insisted to continue. He apologized after, and I apologized for being grumpy.
> 
> ETA: And to be clear, I didn't force sex. I told him I'd rather wait, and he forced it.


Sounds like it was one time where you could have skipped it and not really missed it. But you learned something, forcing it does not always make great sex. So chalk it up to a learning experience.

I don't blame him for trying even though his body was not really up for it. You see, it is somewhat driven by ego and also the desire to please you. If he admits that he is too tired, then it is he that can't keep up with you. So it hurts his ego a little. And, with all the new understanding that you need the physical side, he is not going to easily miss and opportunity to give it to you. Thus it was probably hard to turn down (I would not have turned it down .. and it probably would have turned out bad).

Sounds like both of you realized it turned out bad, and it sounds like both of you are sorry. But relax, part of the good part of being married is to learn these lessons together, and get to know one another. A small chat will bring some intimacy now, and then after his friends leave you guys can have another go at it. :smthumbup: 

You are doing just fine .. just look through the past and then figure out what would have happened to this situation a year ago (it would have been painful for you). Things are definitely better than the past.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Sounds like it was one time where you could have skipped it and not really missed it. But you learned something, forcing it does not always make great sex. So chalk it up to a learning experience.
> 
> I don't blame him for trying even though his body was not really up for it. You see, it is somewhat driven by ego and also the desire to please you. If he admits that he is too tired, then it is he that can't keep up with you. So it hurts his ego a little. And, with all the new understanding that you need the physical side, he is not going to easily miss and opportunity to give it to you. Thus it was probably hard to turn down (I would not have turned it down .. and it probably would have turned out bad).
> 
> Sounds like both of you realized it turned out bad, and it sounds like both of you are sorry. But relax, part of the good part of being married is to learn these lessons together, and get to know one another. A small chat will bring some intimacy now, and then after his friends leave you guys can have another go at it. :smthumbup:
> 
> You are doing just fine .. just look through the past and then figure out what would have happened to this situation a year ago (it would have been painful for you). Things are definitely better than the past.


Thing about it, Is even high drive couples every sex session is not going to be spectacular. Be happy you guys are doing it considering your past.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I haven't been laid in 4 days and I'm getting cranky.

This weekend was stressful and exhausting. Last night we were both tired, kind of blah. I mentioned sex, he said no. Then later he said we could do it if I wanted too.

But I did NOT want a repeat of Thursday, so I just decided to wait. There is no point in having sex if we are going to be too tired to enjoy it. So we went to bed early, and hopefully tonight we will get to enjoy each other again.

Thankfully he has been sweet, and snuggly. So I'm trying not to be too cranky.  I just can't help it after a couple days of no sex. 

Also realized that the 5 day vacation we are taking next week falls right during my period.  So there goes all that fun, and vacation sex. Poo. How disappointing. 

Not to mention riding in a car during that time for 40 hours, and camping... Yuck.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My husband referred to it as resetting my buttons. Had to reset the button or I got cranky, I really tried not to but there is a reset button somewhere deep inside and it needed to be pushed by him


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I haven't been laid in 4 days and I'm getting cranky.
> 
> This weekend was stressful and exhausting. Last night we were both tired, kind of blah. I mentioned sex, he said no. Then later he said we could do it if I wanted too.
> 
> But I did NOT want a repeat of Thursday, so I just decided to wait. There is no point in having sex if we are going to be too tired to enjoy it. So we went to bed early, and hopefully tonight we will get to enjoy each other again.
> 
> Thankfully he has been sweet, and snuggly. So I'm trying not to be too cranky.  I just can't help it after a couple days of no sex.
> 
> Also realized that the 5 day vacation we are taking next week falls right during my period.  So there goes all that fun, and vacation sex. Poo. How disappointing.
> 
> Not to mention riding in a car during that time for 40 hours, and camping... Yuck.



It is really ok though. However I know the feeling. He is willing, and you are thinking "I don't want to miss an opportunity to have sex." But the other part is thinking, "why have sex if we are this tired and will probably not have fun." And "What if something else happens and the next opportunity is not there for a long time?"

Still, you made the right choice. Hang in there. Sometimes a little anticipation and waiting can make better sex when you do have it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sex has been better, but more infrequent. I guess you can't have both.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I can relate. The logic is there. But still, it leaves one wanting more.

Last time we had sex it was good. My wife tried to convince me that infrequent sex is better sex because it is more of a treat. :lol:

But really, you are doing really well. So, keep it up.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How are things going Curious?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Things are going. Not good or bad really.

We just got back from vacation yesterday, we are pretty exhausted and still recovering. We didn't have sex a single time there. So it was a very long and horny 8 days. 

But we did attack each other when we got home yesterday, so right now I am feeling satisfied. Hopefully now that we are home and getting settled it won't be so long in between sex. 

I know I won't get much loving this weekend.  We are throwing a July 4th party on Friday, and then one of his friends is coming from long distance to visit. So some of the guys are staying Saturday & Sunday somewhere else to hang out. 

It's going to be lonely and horny weekend. Oh well. 

I kind of feel like I've moved past my extreme HD at this point. I mean I'm still horny, and would love to have sex everyday. But I'm not desperate anymore. I don't ask for sex much, and I don't just settle for scraps. If I think the sex isn't going to be good, like if we are too tired, or too rushed, or he isn't into it, I can and do actually say no. 

This has resulted in a lot less, but a lot better sex.

My nonchalant attitude has certainly helped with the tension and upset feelings between us. He doesn't feel as pressured, and I stopped setting myself up for rejection. But somewhere deep inside I do kind of feel like a part of me has been smothered out. But I think maybe it is best this way. I don't need to act like a sex crazed maniac. There is nothing good that can come from it.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just wanted to drop in and say hi, Curious. 

Same results here, it seems as you are having. There is some latitude within the parameters of the relationship that are good to maximize. Like if you cant have sex as frequently as you would like it can at least be better sex.

DH and I are still in a pattern. Things are good and somehow I'm naive enough still to believe they are fixed for good. Then a slow decline over a period of months. Then a last straw event. Then an argument with discussions. Then things get better, repeat. DH claimes to have no awareness that any of this happens. But I think if you have a lesser need for intimacy the routine mechanical.sex and the great intimate sex both fit the bill.

I have gotten quite busy really with my own thing. Gotten involved in our community theater, rehearse nightly, making new friends. Working with a trainer at the gym, volunteering, busy getting my teenagers around.

This has not changed DH need for intimacy but it's made me feel more fulfilled. It's been an outlet.

I still wish there was a solution or an answer to what ails most of us here. A solution or answer that didn't involve divorce anyway. 

In any case - keep on swimming.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Actually that does not sound bad. Actually pretty normal for a busy couple.

Although you sound disappointed that the frequency has dropped, but the quality has improved. So I can see why you have mixed feelings about it. You sort of feel you had to trade off frequency for quality. Having others say "I would rather have good sex occasionally than a lot of bad sex" does not help. You really want both! 

What prevented you from having sex on your vacation?

Do you feel concerned that frequency will diminish in the future? That this is a trend?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Did you ever bring up getting his T-levels checked to your husband?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Just wanted to drop in and say hi, Curious.
> 
> Same results here, it seems as you are having. There is some latitude within the parameters of the relationship that are good to maximize. Like if you cant have sex as frequently as you would like it can at least be better sex.
> 
> DH and I are still in a pattern. Things are good and somehow I'm naive enough still to believe they are fixed for good. Then a slow decline over a period of months. Then a last straw event. Then an argument with discussions. Then things get better, repeat. DH claimes to have no awareness that any of this happens. But I think if you have a lesser need for intimacy the routine mechanical.sex and the great intimate sex both fit the bill.
> 
> I have gotten quite busy really with my own thing. Gotten involved in our community theater, rehearse nightly, making new friends. Working with a trainer at the gym, volunteering, busy getting my teenagers around.
> 
> This has not changed DH need for intimacy but it's made me feel more fulfilled. It's been an outlet.
> 
> I still wish there was a solution or an answer to what ails most of us here. A solution or answer that didn't involve divorce anyway.
> 
> In any case - keep on swimming.


We follow the same exact pattern as you. And just like your husband, my husband never seems aware of it either, except the big blow up at the end, and me making a stink about it. Although we have been going pretty good for a few months I think without too much downfall. *keeps fingers crossed*

I feel like it was mostly a compromise on my part that has calmed things. It's not like our sex life has really improved, I've just decided to not care/worry about it. Much like you, I just try to keep myself busy. If he wants sex, hurray, if not, then I just move on.

We still go days without kissing, and I still feel like sex isn't on his radar. But at least I'm not obsessing over it anymore.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Actually that does not sound bad. Actually pretty normal for a busy couple.
> 
> Although you sound disappointed that the frequency has dropped, but the quality has improved. So I can see why you have mixed feelings about it. You sort of feel you had to trade off frequency for quality. Having others say "I would rather have good sex occasionally than a lot of bad sex" does not help. You really want both!
> 
> What prevented you from having sex on your vacation?
> 
> Do you feel concerned that frequency will diminish in the future? That this is a trend?



I know it might be normal, but it's just not satisfactory to me. I'd prefer to give up other things, so I can make time for sex. 

Your right.  I'm selfish, I want good sex, and lots of it.

We didn't have sex because it was period week. At home after Saturday is sometimes okay for him, but we were scared of making a mess on our host's sheets. We were also very busy and tired. It was a lot of early mornings, and late nights, not a very relaxing vacation, but it was a lot of fun. I don't know, things just didn't seem sync up. 

And yes. I am slightly concerned about frequency. I'd say our average is slowly dropping. It seems like we often go 4 days now without, where at first we always made it a point to go every other day for me. What is there to keep it from dropping to 5 days... then a week... 

Just like yesterday, husband was like, "oh we haven't had sex for a couple days..." Me: "Um no. It's been EIGHT DAYS." 

There is a big difference between 3 days and 8 days to me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Did you ever bring up getting his T-levels checked to your husband?


Yes. Many times. He absolutely refuses to get tested. 

Although, I'll let you in on a little secret. 

Husband desperately wants children. I say no way in heck now. But I think I do have him convinced that before we can start trying, that we both need to go get tested, and that we both need to start taking vitamins...  You know, to make sure we are healthy, so we don't have baby problems. 

Of course I'm not ready to have children anytime soon. But at least I know I have a fail proof way to get him tested in the future. Even if I had to stretch the truth just a little.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When DH and I have sex he does always give oral or what have you. That part stuck with him - not to say it's always successful but he doe make an effort where he didn't before. I'm the one that can say yes or no after a while but he tries.

However, it's the rest of it he doesn't seem to get. The small things like you are saying. The needing to be physically close to me. Kissing, hugging, holding, snuggling. Loving glances, a need to be with me. A year ago i would have said everything would be fine if only he was giving me some sexual stimulation - but it ended up not being that simple.

I hate that you are so young and are dealing with this. Of course I was dealing with it at your age as well. But darn it, I don't want you having to put in 20 years of it like I have. Sorry, curious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> When DH and I have sex he does always give oral or what have you. That part stuck with him - not to say it's always successful but he doe make an effort where he didn't before. I'm the one that can say yes or no after a while but he tries.
> 
> However, it's the rest of it he doesn't seem to get. The small things like you are saying. The needing to be physically close to me. Kissing, hugging, holding, snuggling. Loving glances, a need to be with me. A year ago i would have said everything would be fine if only he was giving me some sexual stimulation - but it ended up not being that simple.
> 
> I hate that you are so young and are dealing with this. Of course I was dealing with it at your age as well. But darn it, I don't want you having to put in 20 years of it like I have. Sorry, curious.


Same here. At first I just wanted him to give me an orgasm darn it! Mine wasn't important. Now he is good at it, and he does try to make sure I am sexually satisfied, but that just isn't good enough anymore. I realized I wanted more than that.

I want to feel desired, I want to be intimate when we aren't having sex, I want flirting... That is stuff that you can't really "fake" or just do. The feeling has to be there, for it to be genuine. 

So it's harder for us to work on. I can't say something like, "I need 3 passionate kisses, 2 hugs, and 5 minutes of hand holding a day please. Oh and you need to tease and flirt a little too." It just wouldn't be the same. I wouldn't feel desired if I was making him do those things, so it would defeat the purpose. 

I am really hoping I won't suffer for 20 years like you did, since we are actively working on this. I won't just sit by and let it slide, I want improvements, now! I really hope that makes a difference in our situations.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's the same slow realization most of us who aren't fulfilled in our sexual relationships come to. It's not about sex! It's about feeling like your partner WANTS you and NEEDS you and feeling a mutual connection. 

I always though, "if my (X)wife would just have sex twice a week, I'd be good." She never did. But then it hit me. I was masturbating every damn night! If it was about an orgasm, I should have been the happiest person on the planet. 

I am now with my second wife, we have sex about every 2-3 days. But, I have only masturbated 3 times in the last year and 2 of those were at her request. She likes a show sometimes.  

Having an orgasm half as often as before but 10 times happier!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know it might be normal, but it's just not satisfactory to me. I'd prefer to give up other things, so I can make time for sex.
> 
> Your right.  I'm selfish, I want good sex, and lots of it.
> 
> We didn't have sex because it was period week. At home after Saturday is sometimes okay for him, but we were scared of making a mess on our host's sheets. We were also very busy and tired. It was a lot of early mornings, and late nights, not a very relaxing vacation, but it was a lot of fun. I don't know, things just didn't seem sync up.
> 
> And yes. I am slightly concerned about frequency. I'd say our average is slowly dropping. It seems like we often go 4 days now without, where at first we always made it a point to go every other day for me. What is there to keep it from dropping to 5 days... then a week...
> 
> Just like yesterday, husband was like, "oh we haven't had sex for a couple days..." Me: "Um no. It's been EIGHT DAYS."
> 
> There is a big difference between 3 days and 8 days to me.


Probably you already thought of this .. but inexpensive red towels help with the mess. I would hope that you guys can add a session per month just by using the time where the flow is a bit lighter.

As far as frequency goes ... well I would not suggest you bring it up yet. Things are getting better, and you want to experience this for a little while longer and get settled in. If you bring it up, it may be taken as whining and never being satisfied. That is, it runs the risk of being misunderstood.

I know exactly what you mean by the "non sexual" items that show you are desired. And this is truly the sort of stuff you can't specify. Some people are just not brought up to express their desire all the time, and others just do.

You can talk to him about this one. Make sure you:

1) Tell him how much you feel desired and loved and wanted and cared for when he gives you a kiss or a pat on the rear. Tell him this is what you want, and you wish he would make an effort to do these things.

2) Make sure you tell him that there is no expatiation that these things will lead to sex for you. In other words, make it clear to him that he is not obligated to give you sex if he decides to give you a kiss - or a grope :lol:

Hopefully you can communicate this to him and he will understand that this is one of your "love languages" and that it is important to you. And perhaps he will find it easy to get into the habit before 20 years have passed.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious and Scarlett...You are both in the same boat. You are both far more sexual than your husbands, and it won't change, a person's natural sex drive level doesn't change (except maybe temporarily for a variety of reasons).

But there is some hope in that if you can get your husbands to understand that although it is not natural to them, they simply MUST *at least* do those things you really need that you are missing:

*passionate kisses

*touching you sexually and non-sexually at random times

*showing real desire in an outward manner

...and whatever else you would add to this list...they can learn those behaviors and adopt them. And eventually it could become not only habit but also something they develop more appreciation for.

To do this, you would both basically have to demand that they let you lead them, and then you'd have to go forth and lead them. This would look something like....

*if you want kisses, you tell him and then go for it...if he is following correctly he will jump to your request and get ready to take you in his arms for the kisses

*if you want to be swirled around the room, you walk up, take his hand, and curl yourself in under his arm, then out, then have him spin you...if he is following correctly he will then take his cue to turn this mini-dance into something of his own

*if you want him to show strong desire, say at a moment when you'd be particularly hot for it, you say "husband, give me all you've got"....if he is following correctly he will know what you mean (following correctly assumes you've had many discussions about what you want when you lead him and say certain things)...maybe it would be slamming you up against a wall with a deep kiss, whatever it is, he would know to bring it on.

Doing this would mean you have to take responsibility for getting your needs met, and also you'd be doing a LOT of work. However...as you can see, if you do nothing, you will likely never get these kinds of needs met with your current husbands at ALL. They simply will never have the oomph it takes to think of doing these things. So you can't really ask them to do these things of their own accord. It would be like someone asking you to remember to be excited and perky about something that you simply don't feel that way about, even if you do love it and like it, it is not a high priority to you.

Instead, you can give in on the part that sucks (that you'll be doing most of the work) but in return, you probably will get 100 times more hugs, kisses, swirls around the kitchen, or whatever.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. Many times. He absolutely refuses to get tested.
> 
> Although, I'll let you in on a little secret.
> 
> Husband desperately wants children. I say no way in heck now. But I think I do have him convinced that before we can start trying, that we both need to go get tested, and that we both need to start taking vitamins...  You know, to make sure we are healthy, so we don't have baby problems.
> 
> Of course I'm not ready to have children anytime soon. But at least I know I have a fail proof way to get him tested in the future. Even if I had to stretch the truth just a little.


You know if you find a problem it could take a couple of years to work it out, better get tested now:smthumbup:



TheCuriousWife said:


> We follow the same exact pattern as you. And just like your husband, my husband never seems aware of it either, except the big blow up at the end, and me making a stink about it. Although we have been going pretty good for a few months I think without too much downfall. *keeps fingers crossed*
> 
> I feel like it was mostly a compromise on my part that has calmed things. It's not like our sex life has really improved, I've just decided to not care/worry about it. Much like you, I just try to keep myself busy. If he wants sex, hurray, if not, then I just move on.
> 
> We still go days without kissing, and I still feel like sex isn't on his radar. But at least I'm not obsessing over it anymore.


Oh how I don't miss those days! In fact there have been a few days that I've wondered if I could keep up. And other days that I've swatted him saying I'm trying to finish doing something, I love it!:smthumbup: The other day my husband even made me initiate sex, he wanted it but had me initiate, I think he could see that I got scared of initiating. Like Scarlett said just keep swimming.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,
This is a big red flag to me. 8 days of vacation - a H who knows that you want a decent sex life - and he didn't make the effort once. That's unkind. It's selfish. 

Even a LD person can get themselves warmed up over a few days - if it's important to THEM. So I have a question: why isn't it important to him, given that he knows it's important to YOU.

I'm seriously concerned that he will further deprioritize you after he gets the children he wants. 

It is very common, I might even say the norm, for a broken sexual dynamic to get much worse once the last child is born. 



QUOTE=TheCuriousWife;9444202]Things are going. Not good or bad really.

We just got back from vacation yesterday, we are pretty exhausted and still recovering. We didn't have sex a single time there. So it was a very long and horny 8 days. 

But we did attack each other when we got home yesterday, so right now I am feeling satisfied. Hopefully now that we are home and getting settled it won't be so long in between sex. 

I know I won't get much loving this weekend.  We are throwing a July 4th party on Friday, and then one of his friends is coming from long distance to visit. So some of the guys are staying Saturday & Sunday somewhere else to hang out. 

It's going to be lonely and horny weekend. Oh well. 

I kind of feel like I've moved past my extreme HD at this point. I mean I'm still horny, and would love to have sex everyday. But I'm not desperate anymore. I don't ask for sex much, and I don't just settle for scraps. If I think the sex isn't going to be good, like if we are too tired, or too rushed, or he isn't into it, I can and do actually say no. 

This has resulted in a lot less, but a lot better sex.

My nonchalant attitude has certainly helped with the tension and upset feelings between us. He doesn't feel as pressured, and I stopped setting myself up for rejection. But somewhere deep inside I do kind of feel like a part of me has been smothered out. But I think maybe it is best this way. I don't need to act like a sex crazed maniac. There is nothing good that can come from it.[/QUOTE]


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FaithfulWife thanks for the reminder! 

I am trying to be more direct with my needs. You are spot on, he needs to be led by the hand.... It just gets old after a while, teaching a grown man how to show you love. It frustrates me. 

As far as telling him "give me all you got, right now." That would never work. He still always has the final say if we have sex or not. I can tell him I am horny right this instant, and I will always get a "okay, maybe after dinner" or "tomorrow we will have more time."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> You know if you find a problem it could take a couple of years to work it out, better get tested now:smthumbup:


:lol: 

Haha, I had never thought of that. Maybe I'll bring that up next time he mentions children.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> TCW,
> This is a big red flag to me. 8 days of vacation - a H who knows that you want a decent sex life - and he didn't make the effort once. That's unkind. It's selfish.
> 
> Even a LD person can get themselves warmed up over a few days - if it's important to THEM. So I have a question: why isn't it important to him, given that he knows it's important to YOU.
> 
> I'm seriously concerned that he will further deprioritize you after he gets the children he wants.
> 
> It is very common, I might even say the norm, for a broken sexual dynamic to get much worse once the last child is born.


It's pretty normal for him not to come near me with a ten foot pole during the "cranky week." Vacation or no vacation, he made it clear before that nothing was going to happen. I used to beg, or try to talk him into it during these times, but it was just a waste of my breath. I deal with it, and move on. 

I didn't ask for sex, and he never mentioned it. He did make out with me one night, but it didn't lead anywhere. Actually on the last day I think I brought it up, at first he said okay, but then he asked me if I was still messy and since I was he said never mind we will wait until we get home. That was the end of it. 

I've learned not to expect things will be any different just because we are on vacation, or because it is a holiday. In fact I'd say we have a lot less sex on our vacations. We are busy, and tired, so those are two perfect excuses not to have sex.

And I agree that it is common for things to get worse after children. Which is just one of the reasons why I refuse to have children anytime soon. We won't be having kids until everything is satisfactory, and I am 100% sure I am willing to spend the rest of my life with this man.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And now we are going to the movies tonight with a friend, so no time for sex. Quite possibly until Monday. Hurray. A 6 day dry stretch. 

I asked him this morning when he thought we would have time for sex again, and he said we will make time this weekend.

I have my doubts, but we will see if he will make it a priority.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You don't have to get up early tomorrow for work, either tonight or before friends arrive. Let him know just how important this is to you. Just keep swimming (I love that)


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> As far as telling him "give me all you got, right now." That would never work. He still always has the final say if we have sex or not. I can tell him I am horny right this instant, and I will always get a "okay, maybe after dinner" or "tomorrow we will have more time."


In that part, "give me all you've got", I didn't mean sex. I gave an example of shoving you up against a wall and giving a deep kiss...the meaning is not about sex but about showing you passion, making it clear he "wants" you...but that doesn't mean sex itself, it is the communication of passion that you are missing.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's never "too late" to have sex Curious. Wake him up early in the morning or in the middle of the night. Why do you have to have sex within a certain time frame? That makes no sense to me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> You don't have to get up early tomorrow for work, either tonight or before friends arrive. Let him know just how important this is to you. Just keep swimming (I love that)


I work tomorrow, and he is running a race early in the morning. The party is only a few minutes after I get home from work, and then he will be leaving to go to friends house... 

I am not going to pursue this. I already told him I need sex. If I am any priority at all, he will make time for me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> In that part, "give me all you've got", I didn't mean sex. I gave an example of shoving you up against a wall and giving a deep kiss...the meaning is not about sex but about showing you passion, making it clear he "wants" you...but that doesn't mean sex itself, it is the communication of passion that you are missing.


Oh I got you. I misunderstood, sorry! 

He would probably be willing to do that much, if I pushed for it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> It's never "too late" to have sex Curious. Wake him up early in the morning or in the middle of the night. Why do you have to have sex within a certain time frame? That makes no sense to me.


Because we both work early in the morning, and if he is tired he will fall asleep on me.  So that cuts out any late nights or early mornings.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I work tomorrow, and he is running a race early in the morning. The party is only a few minutes after I get home from work, and then he will be leaving to go to friends house...
> 
> I am not going to pursue this. I already told him I need sex. If I am any priority at all, he will make time for me.


Darn, too bad you don't get tomorrow off!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Because we both work early in the morning, and if he is tired he will fall asleep on me.  So that cuts out any late nights or early mornings.


Good grief, I don't know how you put up with it. I don't think I could. I wouldn't be able to remember all the rules you have to live by with regard to your sex life.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh I got you. I misunderstood, sorry!
> 
> He would probably be willing to do that much, if I pushed for it.


The beauty of this is he doesn't need to be hard. The downside of this is if his T really is low you may be discouraged with what you get, believe me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Good grief, I don't know how you put up with it. I don't think I could. I wouldn't be able to remember all the rules you have to live by with regard to your sex life.


No kidding.

Maybe I should type them all up and hang a poster with them on our bedroom wall so he can see how ridiculous it is.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Darn, too bad you don't get tomorrow off!


I know. 

Today is also my normal day off, but I have to work to make up for the time off during vacation. Poo.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No kidding.
> 
> Maybe I should type them all up and hang a poster with them on our bedroom wall so he can see how ridiculous it is.


Seriously! I'd need to keep a cheat sheet next to the bed in order to remember them all! 

Not making fun Curious, I think it's pretty sad that you have to live like this....................


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Oh how I don't miss those days! In fact there have been a few days that I've wondered if I could keep up. And other days that I've swatted him saying I'm trying to finish doing something, I love it!:smthumbup: *The other day my husband even made me initiate sex, he wanted it but had me initiate,* I think he could see that I got scared of initiating. Like Scarlett said just keep swimming.


Wow, does he have the power of voodoo or something!  I sure wish I knew a way to make my wife initiate sex. Care to share his magic?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Seriously! I'd need to keep a cheat sheet next to the bed in order to remember them all!
> 
> Not making fun Curious, I think it's pretty sad that you have to live like this....................


It's not so bad now. I'm used to the routine... 

As sad as it sounds, sometimes if he is willing to have sex out of his "normal" rules, I am taken back and I have to ask "are you sure?" I also have trouble getting into the moment, because I feel like I am doing something I shouldn't. Like a little kid getting into the cookie jar before dinner. I think my brain is reprogrammed. I will second guess myself and say stupid things like, "well maybe it is too late" or "I guess after dinner would be better."

I am really trying to accept and enjoy any offer he gives me outside of the norm to encourage him outside of his box. But I won't lie, I feel like I've gotten too comfortable in the box, and it's hard to change. 

Gah. So I share the blame.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Fightforher, I was scared to initiate after so many times of it ending with me crying. Now that his T is up he is trying to show me it's safe again. As for me swatting him, it sure is nice to not be so hungry I will take crumbs. He knows I'm almost always up for it, after 18 yrs he knows this well!

Just want to say, my husband tried really hard, he was never ever intentionally mean, he gave all he had to give at the time but it still hurt cause I needed more. The contrast is so amazing and I'm glad I hung in there and didn't turn on him during those days, my best friend needed me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Similar to what the2ofus said, I think my reaction comes from being scared.

Even if he makes the first move, I am still scared to be vulnerable. I've been hurt a lot of times, so it's hard to let go and feel safe. Especially in situations that are usually no nos. 

I need to work on that.

I also don't think my husband in intentionally mean. He tries, I just need more.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I almost hit like but I don't really like it, we need a hug button!

So sorry this is your lot in life at this time! ((((((Hugs))))))). Just keep swimming!

PS
I so don't miss that feeling! I had a small reminder the night before my dad's open heart surgery. We were both stressed (that affects T), we had not had enough sleep all weekend (that affects T), and I just needed him to hold me and he just wanted sleep. A small stab of that pain hit me and I flashed back to all the pain. I'm glad that we are not there but realize it may be quite some time until I never trigger and have flashbacks. We are both good again but that night a week and a half ago reminded me how far we have come.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

the2ofus: It may be harder for women to initiate - even when in marriage. Society teaches women that if they initiate they are bad girls. So being rejected after initiating really reinforces this.

My wife does not initiate very often. And sometimes she initiates in a less than obvious way. I can still recall one night about 16 years ago when the power went out. She made some comment, and I failed to grasp what it meant. I went to look out the window at the power company workers that were changing the transformer in the night. After a few hours the power came back on. The next day I felt miserable. I knew that I had missed an opportunity to have sex, and that was bad. But the real killer was that I had not responded to her subtle initiation. Although she never said anything about it, I felt bad that I had rejected her. I learned from it though. Now she can tap a fingernail and I am RESPONSIVE.

My guess is that Mr Curious is still looking at the window when the power goes out. And I just hope that he learns to look for the signs .. that would make Curious feel more loved.

Curious: when he shows signs of initiating .. go for it immediately. Think of it as part of his training exercise.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I love that now that his T is higher if I even talk about something sexual he takes it as a possible initiation. For a while there he just didn't catch hints, only thing he caught was "I want sex!" That and "I really need my buttons reset!" He knew that meant I was headed for meltdown within the day. Eventually he got good at knowing don't go past the third night or the meltdown could begin.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I could make some comment about preventing a meltdown by inserting the rods into the reactor core.

But seriously, it is nice to hear that he gets it and is giving you more of what you need. Somehow, it takes a bit of time to learn about ones partner and to understand the hints. And living with them is not sufficient to learn about the hints. It does take work, and trial and error and communication. It makes it even harder because you can't say anything direct when you are hinting - or it would not be a hint now would it. But you can talk about it later - and that is the way to learn.

It is also nice to hear that you need it. ... Yup, I like to know needs are not just guy things.

Curious: Do you guys talk about what you did to hint you wanted sex? Do you discuss it later to try to teach him what your initiating style looks like?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious: Do you guys talk about what you did to hint you wanted sex? Do you discuss it later to try to teach him what your initiating style looks like?


I am pretty straight forward with my initiating. There is no mistaking it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Fightforher, he did really good trying but no matter how hard he tried there was a certain amount of passion that he just didn't have to give. As the libido comes up with the T he catches hints again . And he's occassionally the one dying for more even though we just did something a few hours ago. . And I think your absolutely right about women and initiation. Add to that the fact that we've been told that guys want it all the time, therefore if we are getting turned down there must be something wrong with us. Maybe it's that we are bad girls wanting sex. It's so screwed up!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am pretty straight forward with my initiating. There is no mistaking it.


That is good. 

What is going on in your mind when there is this choice to either have sex now, or after dinner? Are you wondering if sex after dinner will be as good or better than right at the moment? Are you thinking about the possibility that after dinner there will be some excuse and you will have missed your opportunity? Are you thinking that the sex will be better with the anticipation and getting mentally prepared?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Fightforher, he did really good trying but no matter how hard he tried there was a certain amount of passion that he just didn't have to give. As the libido comes up with the T he catches hints again . And he's occassionally the one dying for more even though we just did something a few hours ago. . And I think your absolutely right about women and initiation. Add to that the fact that we've been told that guys want it all the time, therefore if we are getting turned down there must be something wrong with us. Maybe it's that we are bad girls wanting sex. It's so screwed up!


the2ofus: Delivering the passion is not always so easy for me. This is because delivering the passion makes it very clear I have the hots for her right now, and I am practically out of control. To be rejected at that point is a hard blow. That is, delivering the passion makes me very vulnerable. I wonder if your H has any of the same feelings.

I agree, it is screwed up. That is one of the reasons I enjoy seeing post from you and curious and others. It is so nice to know that *good* girls want sex too. Helps me get confidence to try to initiate on my good girl.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> That is good.
> 
> What is going on in your mind when there is this choice to either have sex now, or after dinner? *Are you wondering if sex after dinner will be as good or better than right at the moment? Are you thinking about the possibility that after dinner there will be some excuse and you will have missed your opportunity?* Are you thinking that the sex will be better with the anticipation and getting mentally prepared?


The bolded part is what I think about. I don't want crappy half hearted sex. If I think he will be in the mood more after dinner I would rather wait. But I also worry that he might change his mind, and I won't get any.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> the2ofus: Delivering the passion is not always so easy for me. This is because delivering the passion makes it very clear I have the hots for her right now, and I am practically out of control. To be rejected at that point is a hard blow. That is, delivering the passion makes me very vulnerable. I wonder if your H has any of the same feelings.
> 
> I agree, it is screwed up. That is one of the reasons I enjoy seeing post from you and curious and others. It is so nice to know that *good* girls want sex too. Helps me get confidence to try to initiate on my good girl.


His was low T, so low it just threw everything into a tail spin, the passion is back now that his levels are getting better. 

He's definitly not worried about rejection :rofl: His only rejections in 18 yrs have been reminding him my midwife said we had to wait a little longer or telling him that my morning sickness was bad enough I might lose my food. If I have a headache and he initiates I hope the endorphines might help my headache. He's absolutely not worried about rejection


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The bolded part is what I think about. I don't want crappy half hearted sex. If I think he will be in the mood more after dinner I would rather wait. But I also worry that he might change his mind, and I won't get any.


Let me look into my garage, I thought I had a crystal ball. :lol:

Que sera sera - the future is not ours to see.

All joking aside, I am sorry to hear that. But I think that I and others have had to face that one from time to time. If you were LD, the answer would be simple - always wait. But since you are HD, the answer is not that simple - especially since your H does not honor rain checks.

And good for you not not accept poor and crappy sex. I believe that is where you came from a long time ago. So now you have the confidence to wait for the good stuff. Much better I think.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> His was low T, so low it just threw everything into a tail spin, the passion is back now that his levels are getting better.
> 
> He's definitly not worried about rejection :rofl: His only rejections in 18 yrs have been reminding him my midwife said we had to wait a little longer or telling him that my morning sickness was bad enough I might lose my food. If I have a headache and he initiates I hope the endorphines might help my headache. He's absolutely not worried about rejection


So happy for you that the passion is back due to his T levels getting better. How wonderful 

Curious: Are you listening? Her H went from tail spin to passion back just by adjusting T levels and some caring and understanding wife he has. Are you listening?

He is one lucky dude. Your availability makes me drool.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And now I found out that he is going straight from the party tonight to friends house, so he will be gone 2 nights and 2 days, and no chance of sex before he leaves. Just peachy.

Oh course I'm being cranky about it, and he was trying to be frisky this morning and I just wanted to push him away. Bad idea, I know. But it frustrates me to no end that he would get me all worked up, and then we can't have sex for 6 days. 

Even worse is that he gets the day off, so I'm sitting here at the office thinking about the sex I could have if I was home right now... Maybe I will skip out on work early, and take the pay cut.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Take the pay cut


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well things are looking up.

Husband stopped by my work and brought me lunch, then we went out and did the errands that had to be done tonight, on my break. Freeing up some time before the party, now if I can just work hard and get home a little early, we should get some alone time.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,
I'm 51. I'm on a long term medication that lowers my drive - maybe by 50%. 

M2 is LD but she really likes to connect a couple times a week. Last night - she said: ok mister, we're on for tonight - no excuses. I just laughed. I never reject her. 

So we get in bed and - for the first 10 minutes my body is not responding. She notices, asks me if everything is ok. I smile and say, slow but terrific. 

While this is rare, it does happen. So I know what to do. I reach into my memory and pull up a video short - from our honeymoon. A few minutes later and I am fully turned on - as is M2. And from there everything proceeded as you would want in such situations.

The thing is - it never occurred to me to say: sorry this is not happening automagically so we need to stop. That would NOT be nice. Seriously. 

I have serious doubts about your H. I think he's going to kill you via neglect after the kids are born.





TheCuriousWife said:


> It's pretty normal for him not to come near me with a ten foot pole during the "cranky week." Vacation or no vacation, he made it clear before that nothing was going to happen. I used to beg, or try to talk him into it during these times, but it was just a waste of my breath. I deal with it, and move on.
> 
> I didn't ask for sex, and he never mentioned it. He did make out with me one night, but it didn't lead anywhere. Actually on the last day I think I brought it up, at first he said okay, but then he asked me if I was still messy and since I was he said never mind we will wait until we get home. That was the end of it.
> 
> I've learned not to expect things will be any different just because we are on vacation, or because it is a holiday. In fact I'd say we have a lot less sex on our vacations. We are busy, and tired, so those are two perfect excuses not to have sex.
> 
> And I agree that it is common for things to get worse after children. Which is just one of the reasons why I refuse to have children anytime soon. We won't be having kids until everything is satisfactory, and I am 100% sure I am willing to spend the rest of my life with this man.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well things are looking up.
> 
> Husband stopped by my work and brought me lunch, then we went out and did the errands that had to be done tonight, on my break. Freeing up some time before the party, now if I can just work hard and get home a little early, we should get some alone time.


Well, that does sound good. Are part of your love languages "acts of service?" Because he is showing these.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And now I found out that he is going straight from the party tonight to friends house, so he will be gone 2 nights and 2 days, and no chance of sex before he leaves. Just peachy.
> 
> Oh course I'm being cranky about it, and he was trying to be frisky this morning and I just wanted to push him away. *Bad idea*, I know. But it frustrates me to no end that he would get me all worked up, and then we can't have sex for 6 days.
> 
> Even worse is that he gets the day off, so I'm sitting here at the office thinking about the sex I could have if I was home right now... Maybe I will skip out on work early, and take the pay cut.


:iagree: Bad idea. If a guy with low drive is trying to be frisky with you, and you love him, what the heck is wrong with just enjoying it. Not every touch has to lead to sex. You don't want to send him the message that without sex on the table his touch is not desirable. He is trying, don't mess up your message.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FFH,

While I agree in theory, I also think that TCW's H is not very considerate. It isn't nice to get a HD spouse worked up and then leave them in that state for 6 days. 

Personally I have little tolerance for this tease and forget or tease and disappear routine. 




fightforher said:


> :iagree: Bad idea. If a guy with low drive is trying to be frisky with you, and you love him, what the heck is wrong with just enjoying it. Not every touch has to lead to sex. You don't want to send him the message that without sex on the table his touch is not desirable. He is trying, don't mess up your message.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> FFH,
> 
> While I agree in theory, I also think that TCW's H is not very considerate. It isn't nice to get a HD spouse worked up and then leave them in that state for 6 days.
> 
> Personally I have little tolerance for this tease and forget or tease and disappear routine.


I see what you mean. I read her paragraph again. And I do understand that he did try to work her up - I.e. Tease. So that is not cool. The first time I read it, I thought he just wanted to be frisky, and she pushed him away. To me frisky is just playful and attention giving, a touch here and there. Guess it could work up somebody. Well, the second line gives the frisky more weight that just a touch now and then. Anyhow. Only Curious knows if she was teased or not. 

I mearly did not want her to give him the impression that she does not want anything to do with him unless it leads to sex. I think that attitude is not cool either. But I would seriously doubt that Curious would fault on this one. But I wanted her to know that pushing hime away just because sex is six days away is not the message she wants to deliver to him.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, If your asking for more touch and he's getting frisky that could be him trying. Plus he may have had this whole plan of bringing you lunch today hopefully giving time for the two of you later!

Mem11363, I understand the comparison but you know why things aren't working he does not. You know there is no reason to be emberassed, he does not.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Curious, If your asking for more touch and he's getting frisky that could be him trying. Plus he may have had this whole plan of bringing you lunch today hopefully giving time for the two of you later!
> 
> Mem11363, I understand the comparison but you know why things aren't working he does not. You know there is no reason to be emberassed, he does not.


Yup, I was wondering if he had a secret agenda of bringing her lunch, and getting enough time to romp with her. But I have seen enough of this thread to know that there is also a chance of nothing happening and Curious dissapointed.

Let's hope Curious can come back with a  on her face. That would be double good - premeditated pleasure giving by H, and pleasure before six days zippo.

Time will tell.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You guys are all right.

I do NOT want to turn down his advances when he is trying to flirt or be frisky, because I do want more of that. Not all touches need to lead to sex.

But I also don't want to be teased, and then him forget about sex for days and leave me high and dry.

It's okay to flirt and tease if I know I will get some relief in the near future. But if I'm feeling sex starved, and he is being all touchy, with no intention of following through for a few days, then it just feels like rubbing salt in the wound.

But honestly, I don't ever want to push him away on purpose. I just can't help it. I get cranky after a few days, and I need my buttons reset. I will continue to try harder to keep my emotions in check.

And we did have fun Friday.  That was very nice of him to come at lunch and free up some of our time. But he's been gone since then and I miss him. Can't wait until he comes home. 

Sleeping with the cat is just not the same.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The thing is, even if I was embarrassed, I would work very, very hard to prevent a situation caused M2 this much distress. 





the2ofus said:


> Curious, If your asking for more touch and he's getting frisky that could be him trying. Plus he may have had this whole plan of bringing you lunch today hopefully giving time for the two of you later!
> 
> Mem11363, I understand the comparison but you know why things aren't working he does not. You know there is no reason to be emberassed, he does not.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You guys are all right.
> 
> I do NOT want to turn down his advances when he is trying to flirt or be frisky, because I do want more of that. Not all touches need to lead to sex.
> 
> But I also don't want to be teased, and then him forget about sex for days and leave me high and dry.
> 
> It's okay to flirt and tease if I know I will get some relief in the near future. But if I'm feeling sex starved, and he is being all touchy, with no intention of following through for a few days, then it just feels like rubbing salt in the wound.
> 
> But honestly, I don't ever want to push him away on purpose. I just can't help it. I get cranky after a few days, and I need my buttons reset. I will continue to try harder to keep my emotions in check.
> 
> And we did have fun Friday.  That was very nice of him to come at lunch and free up some of our time. But he's been gone since then and I miss him. Can't wait until he comes home.
> 
> Sleeping with the cat is just not the same.


Well, that sounds actually very good. His actions are deliberate and premeditated. And he is giving and just not taking. Most likely he had a plan. How wonderful. You must feel very special. He could have blown his time on a video game (something I recall him doing). But instead he concentrated on you. I would say that things are doing well. I hope Curious agrees.

Curious. You are making progress. :smthumbup:

I have to say there is a fine line between teasing and just working somebody up to have fun. The real difference lies in the intent and how it turns out in the end of course.

Yup, the cat is not the same. I can relate to waiting for the spouse to get back home.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I won't lie, things did almost go south on Friday.

When I got home he was sitting on the couch watching a movie. We had limited time, so I initiated sex and instead of acting at all interested in sex, he told me to go ahead and get in the shower and he would join me in a few minutes... Really, he wanted to continue watching a movie that he had seen a dozen times, instead of pausing it and joining me?

Well I tried not to be too disappointed, so I just went ahead and got in the shower. And I waited... and I waited. And 20 minutes later I was done and getting cold so I got out. Of course right when I get out and am walking back to the bedroom he turns off the tv and says hey, "Your getting out?" Acting like he is sad that I didn't wait for him. I told maybe he shouldn't have left me waiting so long. 

Things were starting to make a turn for the worse, but thankfully I kept my emotions in check and he was able to steer me away from being grumpy.

But that is just an example of how things always go. He rarely attacks me, or acts interested. He often leaves me waiting for him to finish whatever, and it drives me crazy. When I'm just sitting there waiting to have sex, especially if I am already undressed or wearing lingerie, while he is watching some stupid tv show it really kills my mood quickly.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This may be too personal and if it is, just ignore the question, but why must you take a shower every time before you have sex? Doesn't that kind of put a damper on spontaneity? Is he a germaphobe?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> This may be too personal and if it is, just ignore the question, but why must you take a shower every time before you have sex? Doesn't that kind of put a damper on spontaneity? Is he a germaphobe?


Not too personal.

I am a bit OCD with cleanliness. It doesn't bother me in the slightest if he doesn't shower before, and he usually doesn't unless he is just joining me for fun. But I ALWAYS shower before. I don't wash my hair or anything, but I just clean the lady bits. I also brush my teeth or use mouthwash before any heavy kissing. 

When first married I didn't shower every time. But along the way he has made numerous comments about smelling like fish, bad breath, and other comments that have made me even more self conscious about my hygiene. 

I can't enjoy sex anymore, unless I know I am 100% clean. Yes it does kill spontaneity. But I don't feel comfortable anymore, without cleaning up first.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What a shame he makes you feel that way -- just another rule to remember. Sorry Curious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> What a shame he makes you feel that way -- just another rule to remember. Sorry Curious.


He does complain about me showering, every once in a while. But I can't bear to hear another comment about my smell. So he will just have to get over it now. 

I also am always abnormally wet. So I have to wear panty liners 24/7. I've been checked out at the doctor, and even taken meds to see if it helped, but they came to the conclusion that it was just normal for me. So that has always made me self conscious as well. Him making comments just made it worse.

Add that to my OCD about clean, and you have a mess.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He does complain about me showering, every once in a while. But I can't bear to hear another comment about my smell. So he will just have to get over it now.
> 
> *I also am always abnormally wet. So I have to wear panty liners 24/7. * I've been checked out at the doctor, and even taken meds to see if it helped, but they came to the conclusion that it was just normal for me. So that has always made me self conscious as well. Him making comments just made it worse.
> 
> Add that to my OCD about clean, and you have a mess.


Most husbands would be rejoicing if their wives had this problem.........nothing wrong with you Curious. Try not to let your husband's insecurities and ignorance ruin your self-esteem. I know easier said that done. You are a normal woman.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Things were starting to make a turn for the worse, but thankfully I kept my emotions in check and he was able to steer me away from being grumpy.


I am curious why you view this as a good result? Because it looks an awful lot like he teased you, then blamed you, then you have to put a smile face on and pretend like everything is okay.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Most husbands would be rejoicing if their wives had this problem.........nothing wrong with you Curious. Try not to let your husband's insecurities and ignorance ruin your self-esteem. I know easier said that done. You are a normal woman.


Thanks.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I am curious why you view this as a good result? Because it looks an awful lot like he teased you, then blamed you, then you have to put a smile face on and pretend like everything is okay.


Maybe I am wrong? :scratchhead:

I am happy that it worked out because a lot of time, it will tick me off, then I will be grumpy and not enjoy sex, or I will turn it down, and then I'll be waiting several more days. And we will both be upset over a stupid communication error. 

He had the intention to have sex, it's just always on his time and that makes me mad. I didn't see that as teasing and blaming, but looking back I see your point.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I am curious why you view this as a good result? Because it looks an awful lot like he teased you, then blamed you, then you have to put a smile face on and pretend like everything is okay.


This. I see you making a lot of adjustments to your desires and wishes, and him, not as much. From what you have reported, he doesn't seem overly impacted by the lesser frequency. You found a workable tolerance but that does not make it ideal.

Also, when you speak of him complaining of your "odor," I hearken back pages and pages ago when you told us that he said you were, "unsexy," yet still expected oral from you. At the time, I said this was about his lack of respect for you. Nothing that is happening now alters that opinion.

TCW, I don't know if your H is immature, or disrespectful, or just an oblivious doofus. It doesn't much matter. Remember the TAM mantra: the only person you can control is yourself. I know your H has made gains but you need to look at yourself in the mirror and ask if it's enough. Maybe it is, and maybe you can live with a reduced sex life in exchange for the other positives in your marriage. Only you can make that call. If so, a) keep nudging him incrementally in the right direction, b) endure the backsliding, and c) admit to yourself that it may never get any better. Oh, and vent here. 

If it is not enough, I would seriously consider if you want to spend the next twenty or thirty years living like this (thinking of MissScarlett as I write this). I am not encouraging you to leave your H; again, only you can make that decision. I am encouraging you to make the most of your life - the only one you have - and not spend the second half of it in regret.

Keep it in mind, sister.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Convection said:


> This. I see you making a lot of adjustments to your desires and wishes, and him, not as much. From what you have reported, he doesn't seem overly impacted by the lesser frequency. You found a workable tolerance but that does not make it ideal.
> 
> Also, when you speak of him complaining of your "odor," I hearken back pages and pages ago when you told us that he said you were, "unsexy," yet still expected oral from you. At the time, I said this was about his lack of respect for you. Nothing that is happening now alters that opinion.
> 
> TCW, I don't know if your H is immature, or disrespectful, or just an oblivious doofus. It doesn't much matter. Remember the TAM mantra: the only person you can control is yourself. I know your H has made gains but you need to look at yourself in the mirror and ask if it's enough. Maybe it is, and maybe you can live with a reduced sex life in exchange for the other positives in your marriage. Only you can make that call. If so, a) keep nudging him incrementally in the right direction, b) endure the backsliding, and c) admit to yourself that it may never get any better. Oh, and vent here.
> 
> If it is not enough, I would seriously consider if you want to spend the next twenty or thirty years living like this (thinking of MissScarlett as I write this). I am not encouraging you to leave your H; again, only you can make that decision. I am encouraging you to make the most of your life - the only one you have - and not spend the second half of it in regret.
> 
> Keep it in mind, sister.



:iagree:

To be clear, he hasn't said anything about an odor in a while. And if I bring it up, he denies ever saying it. But the damage is already done. He has been giving me a little oral as foreplay more often in the recent months. Still never to completion. Hopefully, eventually I will overcome all the bad thoughts that come along with oral. It's still hard to enjoy it without worrying about what he is thinking. 

Right now I am still nudging him the the right direction, enduring, admitting, and venting. 

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I totally agree with everything. 

Honestly I think it's easier to live with the reduced sex life, because I've never known anything else. I sometimes wonder if I had experienced a fulfilling sex life in the past, if I would still tolerate this situation. But at this time, I'm not willing to give up my marriage for the unknown.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Maybe I am wrong? :scratchhead:
> 
> I am happy that it worked out because a lot of time, it will tick me off, then I will be grumpy and not enjoy sex, or I will turn it down, and then I'll be waiting several more days. And we will both be upset over a stupid communication error.


Thanks for the clarification. I get that not being grumpy for a couple of days is a good thing. So that is success.

But I am uncomfortable calling it a communication error.



> He had the intention to have sex, it's just always on his time and that makes me mad. I didn't see that as teasing and blaming, but looking back I see your point.


I forget if I have asked this before, but is he passive aggressive? Because these actions certainly sound like it. He passively controls the sex, but then turns to blame you because you got out to soon. I don't know if it was that (or even him teasing), but him blaming you did not sound good to me.

I think another aspect of it was that you were forced to push down your feelings and not voice them to him. One danger is that your calm and composed reactions will be interpreted as this not having been a big deal. It becomes easier for him to shrug his shoulders and convince himself that what he is doing is fine, because it is not a big deal to you. I am not sure how to best address that, but thought to point out that potential danger to you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I get that not being grumpy for a couple of days is a good thing. So that is success.
> 
> But I am uncomfortable calling it a communication error.
> 
> 
> I forget if I have asked this before, but is he passive aggressive? Because these actions certainly sound like it. He passively controls the sex, but then turns to blame you because you got out to soon. I don't know if it was that (or even him teasing), but him blaming you did not sound good to me.
> 
> I think another aspect of it was that you were forced to push down your feelings and not voice them to him. One danger is that your calm and composed reactions will be interpreted as this not having been a big deal. It becomes easier for him to shrug his shoulders and convince himself that what he is doing is fine, because it is not a big deal to you. I am not sure how to best address that, but thought to point out that potential danger to you.


I don't think he is passive aggressive. At least on purpose. Although some of his actions certainly can make you wonder.

And I see your red flag. Thanks for the heads up! 

It is certainly a big deal, but I am trying to be better at picking my battles. I just don't want our entire marriage to be me nagging at him, and always being a grouch, and trying to criticize everything he does. 

I did tell him that I would have still been in the shower if he hadn't made me wait so long. I just don't want to start world war 3 over every issue. It is hard for me to pick what I need to voice my opinion on, and what I should let go.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I did tell him that I would have still been in the shower if he hadn't made me wait so long. I just don't want to start world war 3 over every issue. It is hard for me to pick what I need to voice my opinion on, and what I should let go.


That is tough to figure out. Much is done by how things feel at the moment, and you will likely make some mistakes along the way. I can't say whether it was or not here, but am glad you are both aware and working on it.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:banghead:

The next time you are told to "go ahead and get in the shower" you jump in, clean up and jump out. If he isn't enthusiastically waiting to pounce, you get dressed and go out!

I did exactly that to my husband two years ago. No one was home and I had just got out of the shower. I tried to initiate and he remained glued to the TV watching a movie he had seen several times.

I got up, got dressed, grabbed my purse and left. Went shopping, went out to dinner, bought some new books and sat at a cafe and read all night. I was gone from 1:00pm until 11:30pm. Didn't call, didn't text...and didn't get any attempts from him either.

Got home, he sheepishly apologized and I told him to go fvck himself!

Get in touch with your inner B!tch!

You are a puppy waiting to be pet, jumping through hoops to get his love and affection. But your man is not a dog lover. He is a cat lover. Bring out the claws sweetheart! Give him a time frame to respond and if he doesn't close the damn window!

What I would give to have a chat with your husband!!!!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I love your post Anon...but it won't work on her husband, I don't think. 

Your husband has a normal sex drive, CW's husband doesn't.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

I am sending my electrician, Bob, over to your house. He can attach a master remote to shut down all TV sets in the house with a touch of a button and make it just look like the TV sets just suddenly broke. And the remote is water proof so you can jump in the shower and push the button. The button is clearly marked "sex on demand."

You have been able to talk to him and teach him a lot of things. Seems like you are getting pretty good at that.  I would suggest that you talk to him again about leaving you hanging in the shower. Tell him that it makes you feel more teased and left hanging. Tell him that you want him to commit when he sends you to the shower. And that means keeping track of time and letting very little slip by before joining you. Let him know that you too have moods, and as time goes on you lose your mood an become disappointed, which is no way to start sex. And let him know that your feelings are hurt when TV becomes more important than you - regardless of re-run movie or whatever.

And if that does not work, I suggest that you have Anon Pink come over to your house to "have a little chat" with your husband. And she is more fun than my electrician Bob.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I love your post Anon...but it won't work on her husband, I don't think.
> 
> Your husband has a normal sex drive, CW's husband doesn't.


He may have a lower sex drive than TCW, but his callousness and lack of attention is inexcusable! He plays games with her and tends to be passive aggressive. He is selfish, entitled and a more of a little boy than a man!

TCW. This is the rest of your life! This push pull control over who's needs get met and how.

By getting up and leaving the house you send a clear message. Go ahead and ignore me, I shall leave and find amusement elsewhere!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes, I think she could get his attention and show him she will not accept being treated that way. But I don't think it will result in more sex. It might result in more respectful behavior, though.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's exactly my point. He doesn't show her any respect. He puts her off like a teenaged boy puts his mother off. "Okay Mom, I'm coming, be there in a minute..." 

He's a little boy who uses his charm to avoid unpleasantness and get what he wants.

You don't have to throw a temper tantrum, you just have to be very clear on what you're willing to accept. Ignore me, put me off, and the window of opportunity closes and I go on with my day away from you. You can't be bothered with me because of a movie you've seen many times? If that's where I fit on your priority list I CLEARLY need to rearrange MY priority list!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> That's exactly my point. He doesn't show her any respect. He puts her off like a teenaged boy puts his mother off. *"Okay Mom, I'm coming, be there in a minute..."*
> 
> He's a little boy who uses his charm to avoid unpleasantness and get what he wants.
> 
> You don't have to throw a temper tantrum, you just have to be very clear on what you're willing to accept. Ignore me, put me off, and the window of opportunity closes and I go on with my day away from you. You can't be bothered with me because of a movie you've seen many times? If that's where I fit on your priority list I CLEARLY need to rearrange MY priority list!


RIGHT ON :iagree: Wish I had said that. But that is exactly what occurred. Next it will be "Just one more minute, I am almost at level 42, I am coming ..." 

Video games are what teenagers are addicted to .. grown men are addicted to their wife.

Curious, just be aware that you deserve to be treated a lot better. He gets lazy on these things. Same was true with the BJ demanding era. He was lazy, so you have to service him. Now you know the BJ demanding era is behind you. You know he can do better. So now you need to talk to him about this one as well. And I also understand the talk with him about this may make you feel uncomfortable - as if you were the "whiner." So keep it simple and discuss your feelings about having to "wait" for him. And express the feelings about being 2nd to TV and video games - especially when he has agreed to be with you.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,

And this indeed is the mystery of the river that is a marriage. On the left bank is inspiration. Yes here we inspire our partner to WANT to do that which pleases us, and to avoid that which displeases us. 

And on the right bank is emotional brute force. Anger, guilt, coldness, distrust.

And in between is the river. A place where we engage in the constructive commerce of marriage. We create and manage limited resources and conduct the business of family. 

I worry about you CW. Worry that you will end up with lovely children and a husband who uses them as props in a never ending dance of avoidance. 

He knows what you crave, perhaps it is best to stay entirely on the left bank for a bit and let nature take it's course. Perhaps he will show that absent any real pressure, he loves you enough to strive to be the partner you want. If not, you ought pause, because once the children come he will feel much safer being inconsiderate. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't think he is passive aggressive. At least on purpose. Although some of his actions certainly can make you wonder.
> 
> And I see your red flag. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> It is certainly a big deal, but I am trying to be better at picking my battles. I just don't want our entire marriage to be me nagging at him, and always being a grouch, and trying to criticize everything he does.
> 
> I did tell him that I would have still been in the shower if he hadn't made me wait so long. I just don't want to start world war 3 over every issue. It is hard for me to pick what I need to voice my opinion on, and what I should let go.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

QFT

This is how a partner behaves when they are tolerating sex in order to get whatever else it is they wish to obtain from the marriage. 

And I've seen the studies showing the drop in testosterone that many men experience when they spend a lot of time with young children. This guy is already not very sexual. Drop his T levels a bit and CW is going to be replacing the batteries in her Rabbit weekly. 




Anon Pink said:


> That's exactly my point. He doesn't show her any respect. He puts her off like a teenaged boy puts his mother off. "Okay Mom, I'm coming, be there in a minute..."
> 
> He's a little boy who uses his charm to avoid unpleasantness and get what he wants.
> 
> You don't have to throw a temper tantrum, you just have to be very clear on what you're willing to accept. Ignore me, put me off, and the window of opportunity closes and I go on with my day away from you. You can't be bothered with me because of a movie you've seen many times? If that's where I fit on your priority list I CLEARLY need to rearrange MY priority list!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, Children require a lot of time, and attention. I am concerned that with kids and his desire to turn on the TV it will leave you low on the list.

When we had kids, the TV got little use .. the little ones required a lot of time and attention and we gave it to them together.

I don't mean to scare you. But I do want you to have a hint at the consequences of kids to your marriage.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> QFT
> 
> This is how a partner behaves when they are tolerating sex in order to get whatever else it is they wish to obtain from the marriage.
> 
> And I've seen the studies showing the *drop in testosterone that many men experience when they spend a lot of time with young children.* This guy is already not very sexual. Drop his T levels a bit and CW is going to be replacing the batteries in her Rabbit weekly.


Gad zooks!  I did not know that. That scares me. Almost makes me want to send my kids to boarding school just to increase my T level. Ah, but I am in love with my kids too, so I can't really do that.

Learning new stuff all the time. Wish it was something I wanted to hear.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FF,
You can offset that via other lifestyle choices including strength training. I also find that competing with other guys in an intense sport seems to help as well. 

Read up on natural ways to boost your at levels. They work. 




fightforher said:


> Gad zooks!  I did not know that. That scares me. Almost makes me want to send my kids to boarding school just to increase my T level. Ah, but I am in love with my kids too, so I can't really do that.
> 
> Learning new stuff all the time. Wish it was something I wanted to hear.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MEM11363, Thanks, I will look into that before I sell my kids. :lol:

Seriously, looks like maintaining proper weight, staying active and sleeping well are on the list. Hay, now that is better


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi Anon! Long time no see! :smthumbup:

Your idea was spot on. I wish I would have had the brains to think of that!

Although I agree with Faithful. It may make him respect me more, but I believe it will drop our frequency even more. 

You are correct though in that I feel like his mother more than his wife. In many things. He ran out of clean pants yesterday and was complaining. He hadn't told me he was running low before, and even if he was, he could have easily started his own load of laundry instead of letting himself run out, then getting cranky at me. 

Next time he puts me off or makes me wait I will try slamming the window of opportunity in his face. I'm not sure it will do anything, but it never hurts to try something new.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am aware kids will make things worse.

He will be such a wonderful father. He loves kids, he is so good with his niece that we watch. I can just see him radiating happiness when he is around her.

But I also know that, that means I will just fall farther down on his priority list. I look at his parents, and they are great parents to their kids.... Too much. They gave up their own lives, and their relationship with their spouse to devote every second to their kids.

I do not want that. Kids are important, but I think spouses are first. I cringe when I think of his parents not sharing a bed for the last 20 years because they slept with their children. I will not stand for that. I do worry he will devote all his time to our children, and I will be put on the back burner. Even more than I am now. 

I've told him this many times. Even a couple days ago I told him that when we have kids that I want one evening a week alone together, when our parents could watch them. He of course had excuses why that's too much/not possible, blah blah blah. 

PS: My husband does all the natural T boosters. He plays sports, and weight trains daily, etc. They don't seem to help him.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Drop his T levels a bit and CW is going to be replacing the batteries in her Rabbit weekly.


Did a toy ever make it into the house?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> Did a toy ever make it into the house?


No.  Not yet. 

*hides sheepishly*

I'm still planning on getting one, it's just on a back burner right now.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Hi Anon! Long time no see! :smthumbup:
> 
> Your idea was spot on. I wish I would have had the brains to think of that!
> 
> Although I agree with Faithful. *It may make him respect me more, but I believe it will drop our frequency even more*.
> 
> You are correct though in that I feel like his mother more than his wife. In many things. He ran out of clean pants yesterday and was complaining. He hadn't told me he was running low before, and even if he was, he could have easily started his own load of laundry instead of letting himself run out, then getting cranky at me.
> 
> *Next time he puts me off or makes me wait I will try slamming the window of opportunity in his face. I'm not sure it will do anything, but it never hurts to try something new*.


Only after you are consistent with your response will he begin to respect you. This is not a one time thing. Each and every time he puts you off, deprioritized you, makes you feel diminished, makes you feel like you are asking too much, you slam that window and walk away.

He upped your OCD tendencies by making a comment that he KNEW or should have known, would trigger your self doubt. And as a result, you are now compelled to shower before you can relax into sex. That, my dear, borders on abusive manipulation. Is that how we treat people we love? What if he were to tell you not to shower because he loved your natural scent? What if he were to insist he dine at the Y because he couldn't get enough of it? Instead he makes comments and avoids your lady parts because he is only interested in his needs being met. And you accept it...


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No.  Not yet.
> 
> *hides sheepishly*
> 
> I'm still planning on getting one, it's just on a back burner right now.



Order one today! TODAY!!!!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It may make him respect me more, but I believe it will drop our frequency even more.


Why do you think this?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
This is his issue - the need for you to shower. 

And - that is ok. He likes this, it is a bit of a spontaneity drawback but but not a big deal.

But his keeping you waiting - this is an entirely different matter. 

This waiting game is a universal type of non verbal communication. 

There are two parts to it. 
- I am more important than you 
And/Or
- I really don't want to do this

So: if he is generally a considerate partner, that means he's making you wait cause he doesn't want to play this particular game.

If however he is a generally inconsiderate partner, than perhaps this is more power trip and less sexual avoidance. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> Not too personal.
> 
> I am a bit OCD with cleanliness. It doesn't bother me in the slightest if he doesn't shower before, and he usually doesn't unless he is just joining me for fun. But I ALWAYS shower before. I don't wash my hair or anything, but I just clean the lady bits. I also brush my teeth or use mouthwash before any heavy kissing.
> 
> When first married I didn't shower every time. But along the way he has made numerous comments about smelling like fish, bad breath, and other comments that have made me even more self conscious about my hygiene.
> 
> I can't enjoy sex anymore, unless I know I am 100% clean. Yes it does kill spontaneity. But I don't feel comfortable anymore, without cleaning up first.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
He is already shaping your expectations regarding 'intimate time' in a post child world. 

And FYI: He WILL be an excellent father. 

In a ummm - in a more .......... flexible culture - you would have a lover. And I don't mean someone you just fvck. I mean a lover who was into you - in the one way that your H is not.





TheCuriousWife said:


> I am aware kids will make things worse.
> 
> He will be such a wonderful father. He loves kids, he is so good with his niece that we watch. I can just see him radiating happiness when he is around her.
> 
> But I also know that, that means I will just fall farther down on his priority list. I look at his parents, and they are great parents to their kids.... Too much. They gave up their own lives, and their relationship with their spouse to devote every second to their kids.
> 
> I do not want that. Kids are important, but I think spouses are first. I cringe when I think of his parents not sharing a bed for the last 20 years because they slept with their children. I will not stand for that. I do worry he will devote all his time to our children, and I will be put on the back burner. Even more than I am now.
> 
> I've told him this many times. Even a couple days ago I told him that when we have kids that I want one evening a week alone together, when our parents could watch them. He of course had excuses why that's too much/not possible, blah blah blah.
> 
> PS: My husband does all the natural T boosters. He plays sports, and weight trains daily, etc. They don't seem to help him.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, Sounds like you are afraid to try Anon's suggestion because it will probably create a spell where things are worse before they get better. So there is some risk in it. However the logic makes sense. I do the same with my kids - and it has worked. However, I don't have much to lose.  But I will say the strategy does get the message across.

Showering requirement  I just don't like this one. It is controlling again and generates a requirement for extra time to be intimate. One more hoop to jump through.

If he wants clean pants - do the laundry himself.
If he wants a clean smelling wife - then he should wash you.

I have to agree with MEM on this one. He is setting up the expectations of reduced intimacy when kids come along. Even when both partners make it a priority it is difficult to be intimate all the time - kids get sick and require attention through the night etc. If he is already saying he will not go out of his way to insure intimacy .. then intimacy will drop *drastically*. And that leaves you working 10 times as hard to get where you are now.  I hope I am wrong.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

If you fully accept anything I say, than accept this: He is not a bad person, he simply isn't a sexual person. You CANNOT change this anymore than you can change his IQ. 

If you take sex out of the equation is he generally: kind, considerate and nice to you? 

If so, then guess what, he does love you - just not the way you love him. 

Under DURESS you can get more from him, but he's already positioning to use the children as a means of avoidance. 

You have three choices: (none of them easy)
- Accept him as is which likely means that you will be in a sexless marriage as soon as he feels safe making it so. This means not making much fuss about it, and accepting that he's not very sexual.
- Try to make him substantially more sexual than he is. You will be emotionally drained by this. Alternately tense, angry and exhausted. You WILL fail. 
- Openly Outsource sex (some type of poly deal might work. Take in a College student as a umm - boarder)

CW - I have already come to be rather fond of you. My posts, are truly intended to enlighten, not to disturb. Sadly in this type situation the former causes the latter. 





fightforher said:


> Curious, Sounds like you are afraid to try Anon's suggestion because it will probably create a spell where things are worse before they get better. So there is some risk in it. However the logic makes sense. I do the same with my kids - and it has worked. However, I don't have much to lose.  But I will say the strategy does get the message across.
> 
> Showering requirement  I just don't like this one. It is controlling again and generates a requirement for extra time to be intimate. One more hoop to jump through.
> 
> If he wants clean pants - do the laundry himself.
> If he wants a clean smelling wife - then he should wash you.
> 
> I have to agree with MEM on this one. He is setting up the expectations of reduced intimacy when kids come along. Even when both partners make it a priority it is difficult to be intimate all the time - kids get sick and require attention through the night etc. If he is already saying he will not go out of his way to insure intimacy .. then intimacy will drop *drastically*. And that leaves you working 10 times as hard to get where you are now.  I hope I am wrong.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> t if he were to tell you not to shower because he loved your natural scent? What if he were to insist he dine at the Y because he couldn't get enough of it?


If he would have started our marriage off with these kind of comments I feel our sex life and my self confidence would be drastically different. 

On our honeymoon I practically pushed his head down there. I couldn't get enough. I was so excited and enthusiastic about it. But it didn't take more than a week or two for me to start realizing that he didn't share the same enthusiasm about it. 

When I was just beginning to learn, and the most impressionable, he discouraged me. I feel like that may have tainted my thoughts on sex, and more specifically oral for the rest of my life.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious, Sounds like you are afraid to try Anon's suggestion because it will probably create a spell where things are worse before they get better. So there is some risk in it. However the logic makes sense. I do the same with my kids - and it has worked. However, I don't have much to lose.  But I will say the strategy does get the message across.
> 
> Showering requirement  I just don't like this one. It is controlling again and generates a requirement for extra time to be intimate. One more hoop to jump through.
> 
> If he wants clean pants - do the laundry himself.
> If he wants a clean smelling wife - then he should wash you.
> 
> I have to agree with MEM on this one. He is setting up the expectations of reduced intimacy when kids come along. Even when both partners make it a priority it is difficult to be intimate all the time - kids get sick and require attention through the night etc. If he is already saying he will not go out of his way to insure intimacy .. then intimacy will drop *drastically*. And that leaves you working 10 times as hard to get where you are now.  I hope I am wrong.


I'm not afraid to try her suggestion... I just hate passing up any chance of sex I can get. I know.... bad. I am getting a lot better about being picky, and having higher expectations about quality. But I won't lie. I think a little part of me dies every time I turn him down. It is really hard. 

Showering is not his requirement. It's mine. I don't want to give him any more reasons to find sex disgusting with me, or make him avoid it. I can at least control that I am clean.

And I fully agree about the kids. I expect it.  Which makes me sad. Because having kids should be a joyous time, but all I can think about is the dread of a sexless marriage.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> If you fully accept anything I say, than accept this: He is not a bad person, he simply isn't a sexual person. You CANNOT change this anymore than you can change his IQ.
> 
> If you take sex out of the equation is he generally: kind, considerate and nice to you?
> 
> If so, then guess what, he does love you - just not the way you love him.
> 
> Under DURESS you can get more from him, but he's already positioning to use the children as a means of avoidance.
> 
> You have three choices: (none of them easy)
> - Accept him as is which likely means that you will be in a sexless marriage as soon as he feels safe making it so. This means not making much fuss about it, and accepting that he's not very sexual.
> - Try to make him substantially more sexual than he is. You will be emotionally drained by this. Alternately tense, angry and exhausted. You WILL fail.
> - Openly Outsource sex (some type of poly deal might work. Take in a College student as a umm - boarder)
> 
> CW - I have already come to be rather fond of you. My posts, are truly intended to enlighten, not to disturb. Sadly in this type situation the former causes the latter.


I know he isn't a bad person, and I know I can't change him to be my perfect man.

Yes, if you take sex out he is just about anything else I could ask for in a partner. 

I'm not a fan of any of your choices. lol 

Thanks. I'm rather fond of all you guys too.  And I know you mean no harm.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> If he would have started our marriage off with these kind of comments I feel our sex life and my self confidence would be drastically different.
> 
> On our honeymoon I practically pushed his head down there. I couldn't get enough. I was so excited and enthusiastic about it. But it didn't take more than a week or two for me to start realizing that he didn't share the same enthusiasm about it.
> 
> When I was just beginning to learn, and the most impressionable, he discouraged me. I feel like that may have tainted my thoughts on sex, and more specifically oral for the rest of my life.



TCW, I'm sorry that my post to you was much harsher sounding than I intended. I actually had written a huge reply but got booted off the internet and lost it. So my irritation at my lost LONG reply came through in my shortened reply.

New husbands and new wives are apt to make the kinds of mistakes your husband made. Errors of omission. But he has had plenty of opportunity to rectify his error and so far he hasn't done anything to assuage your sense that you lack personal appeal to him. His errors of omission will continue.

Once you have children, as has been pointed out by many other members, his lack of interest in you as a woman and a wife will drag you down and make you feel even more unworthy. Then as you children get older, and you've stopped trying, he will grow bored and wonder where his lovely wife went. He won't look in the mirror, he'll look at you and blame you.

There is no way a highly sexual spouse can be happy with a non sexual spouse. There just isn't. The anger and bitterness from not feeling loved will kill any happiness you think you have right now.

You have one option at happiness with this man. Only one.



MEM11363 said:


> - Openly Outsource sex (some type of poly deal might work. Take in a College student as a umm - boarder)


You don't have to actually do it. But you have to make him believe that you can and you will. 

I know this is too much for you to contemplate right now. So I'll leave it at that. 

Go back and check the date of your first post. Skim through this thread and remind yourself of all the times he has left you high and dry and remind yourself of how hard you had to fight to get the meanest crumbs he gives you now. A near constant state of battle.

Taking the last option is going to win the war. He will either step up as a husband or you will see for yourself what a gift you are and realize he is wholly undeserving of that gift!


----------



## where_are_we

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Really, he wanted to continue watching a movie that he had seen a dozen times, instead of pausing it and joining me?


OMG. This is MY husband too. Then he makes you feel like it was you, when really it was a ploy to delay having sex. Or so it seems.

I have also caught him watching TV in the middle of us having sex. 

Just wanted you to know you are not alone.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not afraid to try her suggestion...* I just hate passing up any chance of sex I can get*. I know.... bad. I am getting a lot better about being picky, and having higher expectations about quality. But I won't lie. I think a little part of me dies every time I turn him down. It is really hard.
> 
> Showering is not his requirement. It's mine. I don't want to give him any more reasons to find sex disgusting with me, or make him avoid it. I can at least control that I am clean.
> 
> And I fully agree about the kids. I expect it.  Which makes me sad. Because having kids should be a joyous time, but all I can think about is the dread of a sexless marriage.


I can relate, I still think back to the night in 1997 where I missed an opportunity to have sex. When I die I will probably be arguing with it to St. Peter asking if I can have a "do over." :lol:

Sounds like you are thinking there is going to be a full trade off, kids or sex, but you can't have both. Ironic is it not. I am sorry, but there is little control over it.

This thread is getting to be full of doom and gloom.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



where_are_we said:


> OMG. This is MY husband too. Then he makes you feel like it was you, when really it was a ploy to delay having sex. Or so it seems.
> 
> *I have also caught him watching TV in the middle of us having sex*.
> 
> Just wanted you to know you are not alone.


Ouch and double ouch. Distracted by TV during sex? That must have hurt, unless sex is so frequent you can't find time to watch TV.

I had a book distract her while we were having sex. And that hurt too.

LD people just don't get it. Is ironing the wrinkles out of a pair of pants right NOW actually more important than pleasuring each other? I suppose the wrinkles need attention NOW.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> If you fully accept anything I say, than accept this: He is not a bad person, he simply isn't a sexual person. You CANNOT change this anymore than you can change his IQ.


But he sure does not act like a good person either. At best, he is clueless, immature and indifferent, at worst he is passive aggressive and controlling.

Not being sexual does not mean he is a child.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is more non verbal signaling - that he wishes he were doing something else. 

He is communicating as much as he feels that he safely can, that he does NOT like sex very much. 




fightforher said:


> Ouch and double ouch. Distracted by TV during sex? That must have hurt, unless sex is so frequent you can't find time to watch TV.
> 
> I had a book distract her while we were having sex. And that hurt too.
> 
> LD people just don't get it. Is ironing the wrinkles out of a pair of pants right NOW actually more important than pleasuring each other? I suppose the wrinkles need attention NOW.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Tall,
He is stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

The rock is that he could do without sex entirely. 

The hard place is: that if he tells CW the truth, the marriage is over. 

So - he uses (soft) non verbal cues as much as possible to let her know how he feels. Those cues allow him plausible deniability if she freaks out. Otherwise he is letting her know how he feels. 

He is actually more honest about this than many LD spouses. He IS telling her what's coming. 




Tall Average Guy said:


> But he sure does not act like a good person either. At best, he is clueless, immature and indifferent, at worst he is passive aggressive and controlling.
> 
> Not being sexual does not mean he is a child.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

The focus should be on why rather than what he is doing (or not).

Why is it that a young 20's male has such a low sexual drive?

Draw out the options - physical or mental, if mental then what kind of mental...

We are umpteen pages into this and there's no answer.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When two LD people are married, they can have a really great sex life (infrequent but very fulfilling). It is only a shame when there is a mismatch.

There was a guy on another message board whose story I had read for a long time. He was married to the woman of his dreams. They were madly in love. He was crazy hot for her, too. And she was hot for him, BUT she was very lowly sexual, probably gray sexual even. 

Yet when she would feel horny (once a month, around ovulation), she was very passionate, very in love, and rocked his world.

For years he went through all the motions like most HD spouses do. How to have more sex? How to get her interested in more sex? How to make himself more attractive? All the same suggestions were given to him that are given here.

But none of the suggestions made any difference to her once a month need. 

They had a wonderful relationship otherwise. The lack of sex really WASN'T a symptom of something else, it was only a symptom of her very low sexuality.

Eventually, this guy just committed to accepting and loving what he had with her. He said the sex was soooo good and intimate and loving and sexy and passionate that one time a month, and he knew she was madly in love with him, that he just decided it was not only "good enough" but actually, very very good, just as it was.

I always felt the man himself must not be very sexual. Obviously more than his wife, but he definitely wasn't HD. Because if he was, he probably would not have felt settled and good and happy with the once a month. So he was probably just moderately or average sexual, not HD.

But I also always felt that theirs was a wonderful example of how it CAN work, if everything else is good and the infrequent sex is good for both and real love and commitment is there...then a whole lot of compromise can be a good thing and create a really great situation out of a less than ideal situation.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> The focus should be on why rather than what he is doing (or not).
> 
> Why is it that a young 20's male has such a low sexual drive?
> 
> Draw out the options - physical or mental, if mental then what kind of mental...
> 
> We are umpteen pages into this and there's no answer.


"He's LD" is an answer, John. Sometimes there is nothing more to it. We are all different. For some people, being LD is normal.

Why would you ask "what's wrong" with an LD person but not ask "what's wrong" with an HD person?


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

At some point the 25 year old who wants sex twice a year and the one who wants it three times a day are a few deviations from the mean. This doesn't mean anything is wrong with them but rather, there may be a reason why they are like that. 

That's where population studies are so useful.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> At some point the 25 year old who wants sex twice a year and the one who wants it three times a day are a few deviations from the mean. This doesn't mean anything is wrong with them but rather, there may be a reason why they are like that.
> 
> That's where population studies are so useful.


But accepting him as he *IS* is all that CW can really do, whether there is a "problem" that makes him LD or not. (note: accepting HIM as he is is not the same thing as accepting the situation, which she does not and she should not)

Even if he has extremely low T, that doesn't mean he will get on HRT and be a new man. He may not choose to do that as there are many risks with taking that route (and probably many risks people do not know yet). He may LIKE being the way he is and simply not want to be different.

To keep hammering on "why is he like this" honestly doesn't help anything. 

Accepting "he IS like this, now how will I arrange my life around this fact, or not" is the healthy thing for CW to be considering. She has made her feelings known. Whatever his problem is isn't going to be solved by him just hearing what the problem is again and again, so we know that much.

If there is a health problem causing the low sex drive then hopefully that problem will get figured out and dealt with.

But most likely, there isn't one. He is physically healthy and strong and fit, according to CW. The possibility that there is a health reason causing his LD is low.

Also there are men with very low T who still have very high sex drives. It is not "the one and only answer to everything".


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
It matters to me that you know that I am certain this isn't about you. This is about him. 


John,
Here's how this looks so far:

- A very active, healthy young man with a testosterone friendly lifestyle.
- Who has made it very clear he doesn't want any type of medical or pharmacological intervention that might boost his desire / activity level with CW. 

He loves CW and wants to be married. More important he wants to have children. 

He KNOWS he has some risk of taking the marriage over the cliff by way of sexual starvation. 

And what that tells me is: this is unlikely a sexual style issue. If he had a style preference, he would likely have mentioned it by now.

During their fights about sex, I'm sure CW has directly asked him what he wants her to do differently, more of, less of. So this isn't about that. 

BTW: The dead give away on how he really feels came rom his discussion with CW about having dedicated parent time after the babies come. He clearly does NOT want a once a week date night. 

A man in his twenties who is trying to avoid a weekly date night, that tells you a lot. And he's trying to position that as 'normal'. Meaning it is normal for Mom and Dad to have no private time once the kids come. 

I actually feel almost as sorry for him as I do for CW. 






john117 said:


> The focus should be on why rather than what he is doing (or not).
> 
> Why is it that a young 20's male has such a low sexual drive?
> 
> Draw out the options - physical or mental, if mental then what kind of mental...
> 
> We are umpteen pages into this and there's no answer.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

QFT.

The WHY only matters if it matters to him and it clearly doesn't. 





Faithful Wife said:


> But accepting him as he *IS* is all that CW can really do, whether there is a "problem" that makes him LD or not. (note: accepting HIM as he is is not the same thing as accepting the situation, which she does not and she should not)
> 
> Even if he has extremely low T, that doesn't mean he will get on HRT and be a new man. He may not choose to do that as there are many risks with taking that route (and probably many risks people do not know yet). He may LIKE being the way he is and simply not want to be different.
> 
> To keep hammering on "why is he like this" honestly doesn't help anything.
> 
> Accepting "he IS like this, now how will I arrange my life around this fact, or not" is the healthy thing for CW to be considering. She has made her feelings known. Whatever his problem is isn't going to be solved by him just hearing what the problem is again and again, so we know that much.
> 
> If there is a health problem causing the low sex drive then hopefully that problem will get figured out and dealt with.
> 
> But most likely, there isn't one. He is physically healthy and strong and fit, according to CW. The possibility that there is a health reason causing his LD is low.
> 
> Also there are men with very low T who still have very high sex drives. It is not "the one and only answer to everything".


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> The WHY only matters if it matters to him and it clearly doesn't.



The WHY matters to her also.

A physical reason is vastly different than a reason due to his past but out of his control or something from the present or past but in his control.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Tall,
> He is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
> 
> The rock is that he could do without sex entirely.
> 
> The hard place is: that if he tells CW the truth, the marriage is over.
> 
> So - he uses (soft) non verbal cues as much as possible to let her know how he feels. Those cues allow him plausible deniability if she freaks out. Otherwise he is letting her know how he feels.
> 
> He is actually more honest about this than many LD spouses. He IS telling her what's coming.


I get that he is in tough place, but I don't think that excuses him. Honesty is one of the core precepts around here. Yet because he is LD, he is given a pass? I don't see why.

I don't disagree that he is giving her a road map of what is to come. But he is doing it in a selfish way. It may not be malicious, and this may be the best that he can or is willing to give, but it is clear that he is looking out for himself first in this.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

And even knowing WHY is no guarantee of success so... 

It's like giving a five year old a candy bar and the kid just ignores it (pardon the analogy). One time maybe but long term? 

In 60 pages of this thread nobody has looked into the guy's past. I'm not talking skeletons but maybe super strict upbringing, religious, bad experiences, parenting... 

As with everything, think root cause analysis.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> And even knowing WHY is no guarantee of success so...
> 
> It's like giving a five year old a candy bar and the kid just ignores it (pardon the analogy). One time maybe but long term?
> 
> In 60 pages of this thread nobody has looked into the guy's past. I'm not talking skeletons but maybe super strict upbringing, religious, bad experiences, parenting...
> 
> As with everything, think root cause analysis.


I did ask a few questions about his FOO. Nothing remarkable.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Honestly I believe that he thinks 2 or 3 times a week of so so sex is more than a compromise on his part. I also believe he is only putting as much effort as he does, for my benefit.

He initiated last night, in his way. "Do you want to have sex?" I mentioned something about how great it would be if we had sex tomorrow (today) too since its my day off and we have the evening free. He said I didn't need more sex, and that I wasn't deprived. So I would not be getting any sex today. 

His excuse is always that "normal" couples don't have as much sex as we do (how in the heck would he even know that), and that I should be thankful I get as much as I do, and not just 2 times a month. I told him I would divorce him if I only had sex 2 times a month. He didn't take me seriously, even though I insisted. I told him it doesn't matter what he thinks "normal" couples do. We are the only people in this relationship.

I was going to wear lingerie and surprise him today when he got home from work. But I would be stupid to do it, and i'd just be setting myself up for rejection. Of course he will be gone tomorrow so no sex then either, and Saturday Im sure we will be busy.

It's crazy to me that he actually rejects me in advance. He is not open to seeing where it goes, or giving me a chance to seduce him. He absolutely won't have sex with me if it doesn't fit within his rules. ie. in this case, two days in a row. 

Sorry, just wanted to vent.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes she has delved into his past many times. She has asked him many questions. She has already been told the "he must be gay" angle and she has checked into that. She has described his parents as loving but they "did everything" for him which gives him this entitlement problem. She hasn't uncovered any skeletons, any hidden porn problem, AND most importantly, he has TOLD HER directly that he has "always been this way".

It's been covered many times.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John, I have talked about his past several times. Nothing too special. Peer pressure that girls are bad, and some religious influence from social group. That's about it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Honestly I believe that he thinks 2 or 3 times a week of so so sex is more than a compromise on his part. I also believe he is only putting as much effort as he does, for my benefit.
> 
> He initiated last night, in his way. "Do you want to have sex?" I mentioned something about how great it would be if we had sex tomorrow (today) too since its my day off and we have the evening free.* He said I didn't need more sex, and that I wasn't deprived. So I would not be getting any sex today. *
> 
> His excuse is always that "normal" couples don't have as much sex as we do (how in the heck would he even know that), and that I should be thankful I get as much as I do, and not just 2 times a month. I told him I would divorce him if I only had sex 2 times a month. He didn't take me seriously, even though I insisted. I told him it doesn't matter what he thinks "normal" couples do. We are the only people in this relationship.
> 
> I was going to wear lingerie and surprise him today when he got home from work. But I would be stupid to do it, and i'd just be setting myself up for rejection. Of course he will be gone tomorrow so no sex then either, and Saturday Im sure we will be busy.
> 
> It's crazy to me that he actually rejects me in advance. He is not open to seeing where it goes, or giving me a chance to seduce him. He absolutely won't have sex with me if it doesn't fit within his rules. ie. in this case, two days in a row.
> 
> Sorry, just wanted to vent.


Curious, when he told you that, you should have told him that yes, you would be having sex today and then pulled out your brand new Magic Wand to show him and told him you couldn't wait to try it out!! That from now on, if he can't or won't take care of your needs that you will be taking care of them yourself!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, when he told you that, you should have told him that yes, you would be having sex today and then pulled out your brand new Magic Wand to show him and told him you couldn't wait to try it out!! That from now on, if he can't or won't take care of your needs that you will be taking care of them yourself!


I honestly didn't want to push the issue because we were in the shower getting warmed up for sex, and I really didn't want to ruin the mood for me. 

It was stupid of me to mention more sex when we were getting ready to have sex.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I honestly didn't want to push the issue because we were in the shower getting warmed up for sex, and I really didn't want to ruin the mood for me.
> 
> It was stupid of me to mention more sex when we were getting ready to have sex.


No it wasn't stupid. I honestly don't know how you are able to have sex with your husband in your situation. The anxiety he causes would eat me alive.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I also realized he really has no idea how to initiate or how to turn me on.

We watch a silly show, called The Newlywed Game. They just ask married couples random questions. It's a good way to get the communication going, because while watching, we answer the questions. A question might be "how often do you masturbate" or "what annoying habit does your spouse have."

Well the other day there was a question, "Where is your spouse's favorite place to be touched?" He said anywhere. 

Then another one was, "What is the first thing you do to turn your spouse on?" He said nothing. 

He honestly could not come up with real answers. He said I'm always horny, so he doesn't have to do anything. 

:banghead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> No it wasn't stupid. I honestly don't know how you are able to have sex with your husband in your situation. The anxiety he causes would eat me alive.


Because I love sex, and this is all I get.

And because it's been like this for so long I'm used to it. Like a frog sitting in a pot while it's boiled.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

((((Many Hugs)))))


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

The Newlywed Game is common on cruise ships during grown up comedy night. Hearing a couple describe how they are going at it in the confines of a cruise ship stateroom... It's a great way to break the ice, agreed.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
2-3 times per week is a huge compromise for someone like C2 who desires a frequency somewhere between 0 and 2 times per month.

I would give him huge props for making that compromise if he was being kind about it. 

But he isn't. He is doing all kinds of stuff that makes you feel bad.

Watching tv while having sex. Falling asleep on you during sex. Telling you he wants to chase you. 

These tactics are all part of a single strategy which is to get you to stop being so demanding sexually. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> Honestly I believe that he thinks 2 or 3 times a week of so so sex is more than a compromise on his part. I also believe he is only putting as much effort as he does, for my benefit.
> 
> He initiated last night, in his way. "Do you want to have sex?" I mentioned something about how great it would be if we had sex tomorrow (today) too since its my day off and we have the evening free. He said I didn't need more sex, and that I wasn't deprived. So I would not be getting any sex today.
> 
> His excuse is always that "normal" couples don't have as much sex as we do (how in the heck would he even know that), and that I should be thankful I get as much as I do, and not just 2 times a month. I told him I would divorce him if I only had sex 2 times a month. He didn't take me seriously, even though I insisted. I told him it doesn't matter what he thinks "normal" couples do. We are the only people in this relationship.
> 
> I was going to wear lingerie and surprise him today when he got home from work. But I would be stupid to do it, and i'd just be setting myself up for rejection. Of course he will be gone tomorrow so no sex then either, and Saturday Im sure we will be busy.
> 
> It's crazy to me that he actually rejects me in advance. He is not open to seeing where it goes, or giving me a chance to seduce him. He absolutely won't have sex with me if it doesn't fit within his rules. ie. in this case, two days in a row.
> 
> Sorry, just wanted to vent.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 2-3 times per week is a huge compromise for someone like C2 who desires a frequency somewhere between 0 and 2 times per month.
> 
> I would give him huge props for making that compromise if he was being kind about it.
> 
> But he isn't. He is doing all kinds of stuff that makes you feel bad.
> 
> Watching tv while having sex. Falling asleep on you during sex. Telling you he wants to chase you.
> 
> These tactics are all part of a single strategy which is to get you to stop being so demanding sexually.


His ideal frequency is once a week I believe. The 2 times a month was more of a threat, that it could get worse.

And yes. He would probably love it if I just forgot all about sex, and never asked for anything again. I realize that me wanting it all the time, and being demanding annoys him. 

I've cut wayyy back from how I used to be a year ago. Although I talk a lot about sex on here, I try not to mention it, or bring it up around him, or initiate anymore. Hence the reason sex is falling to an average of 1 or 2 times a week instead of of normal 3. Try as I might to forget about sex, and not bring it up, I do slip up occasionally. Usually causing bad results.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> John, I have talked about his past several times. Nothing too special. Peer pressure that girls are bad, and some religious influence from social group. That's about it.



I'm not so sure I would dismiss the past this quickly. Does he have friends or relatives or siblings from that peer group with similar upbringing? How do they act towards women?


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John, if he had a higher sex drive, his upbringing may stop him from trying to have sex with her but it wouldn't stop him from getting off alone, watching porn, and finding other outlets for sex.

He isn't doing those things.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
What is the basis for you estimating his 'ideal' frequency at once a week? 





TheCuriousWife said:


> His ideal frequency is once a week I believe. The 2 times a month was more of a threat, that it could get worse.
> 
> And yes. He would probably love it if I just forgot all about sex, and never asked for anything again. I realize that me wanting it all the time, and being demanding annoys him.
> 
> I've cut wayyy back from how I used to be a year ago. Although I talk a lot about sex on here, I try not to mention it, or bring it up around him, or initiate anymore. Hence the reason sex is falling to an average of 1 or 2 times a week instead of of normal 3. Try as I might to forget about sex, and not bring it up, I do slip up occasionally. Usually causing bad results.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> What is the basis for you estimating his 'ideal' frequency at once a week?


Because that is about how long he can go before he starts acting visibly horny. And he told me 1 or 2 times a week would be his ideal.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> John, if he had a higher sex drive, his upbringing may stop him from trying to have sex with her but it wouldn't stop him from getting off alone, watching porn, and finding other outlets for sex.
> 
> He isn't doing those things.



True. But Occam's Razor seems to have few other options left. 

Do you think that after indoctrination that "real" women may be trouble, that the options you listed that do not involve "real" women at all may be more desirable?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He has promised me 3 times a week as a compromise.

But as I turn down my "temperature" we are slipping to 1 or 2 times a week.

When we do have sex every other day, I notice that it takes more work to get and keep him interested, and also we sometimes have trouble keeping him from going soft if things are taking a longer for me or if things just don't seem to be working as well.

I'm wondering if 3 times a week is sustainable for him. I'm thinking no at this point.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> True. But Occam's Razor seems to have few other options left.
> 
> Do you think that after indoctrination that "real" women may be trouble, that the options you listed that do not involve "real" women at all may be more desirable?


John, you can think whatever you want about this.

If he had a higher sex drive, he would be wanting to get off more, period, no matter which way you look at it, and no matter if he is repressed.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

No disagreement - remember I'm more into the why rather than the whether part of it.

If the objective is to ascertain whether he's LD - no doubt. Of the objective is to see if he could be un-LD'd, then....


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Honestly I believe that he thinks 2 or 3 times a week of so so sex is more than a compromise on his part. I also believe he is only putting as much effort as he does, for my benefit.
> 
> He initiated last night, in his way. "*Do you want to have sex?*" I mentioned something about how great it would be if we had sex tomorrow (today) too since its my day off and we have the evening free. He said I didn't need more sex, and that I wasn't deprived. So I would not be getting any sex today.
> 
> His excuse is always that "*normal*" couples don't have as much sex as we do (how in the heck would he even know that), and that I should be thankful I get as much as I do, and not just 2 times a month. I told him I would divorce him if I only had sex 2 times a month. He didn't take me seriously, even though I insisted. I told him it doesn't matter what he thinks "normal" couples do. We are the only people in this relationship.
> 
> *I was going to wear lingerie and surprise him today when he got home from work.* But I would be stupid to do it, and i'd just be setting myself up for rejection. Of course he will be gone tomorrow so no sex then either, and Saturday Im sure we will be busy.
> 
> It's crazy to me that he actually rejects me in advance. He is not open to seeing where it goes, or giving me a chance to seduce him. He absolutely won't have sex with me if it doesn't fit within his rules. ie. in this case, two days in a row.
> 
> Sorry, just wanted to vent.


Bad way to initiate. How desirable does that make you feel? I have tried that line - and it was because I was afraid to be rejected and the line is safe - less ventured. But he does not need to use something "safe" because chances are you will not reject him. I would guess that if just grabbed you and pulled off your clothes without any warning you would probably enjoy it. A very risky move because rejection hurts. But I will bet that there is no real expectation for rejection there.

Normal? Does not matter. Any decent book will tell you that normal can vary from couple to couple. One should not try to achieve "normal" because it is not important. 

Not slipping into lingerie to surprise him is a way to protect yourself from being rejected and being hurt. Since he is generally considered the "rejector" here I can understand your reluctance. But I can't understand his reluctance to initiate more aggressively when he wants it.

Too many rules. You don't have kids yet and there are rules.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes. He always acts very safe when talking about sex, or initiating sex. It's always, "if you want to..." Which is strange, because he knows I ALWAYS want to.

Now I've been complaining on here for days, and last night he totally pulls a 180 a catches me by surprise. 

:smthumbup:

He said he is sorry but he just isn't horny as much as me. And that I am free to get a vibrator. (Not that I need his permission.) I don't believe he actually thinks I will get one, but the joke's on him.

After telling me no to sex initially yesterday, we were sitting on the porch enjoying the night when he suggest we have sex out under the stars. 

So we got ourselves a blanket, and I didn't even shower or shave. And we had some fun out in the front yard. Unfortunately things weren't working too good. So the sex was pretty bad, and I am sore today. I am disappointed in me, and hope that doesn't discourage him from future attempts. But it was still a lot of fun, and I am so happy that he made the effort, and got out of his box!

This morning I got up early and made him breakfast, and he was being very loving. We were acting goofy, and just really enjoying each others company. I wish everyday was like this.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My recommendation would be the Magic Wand. It's fab!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> My recommendation would be the Magic Wand. It's fab!


I already have one picked out. It's a wand, but a little less intensity than the magic wand.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Assuming you have privacy outdoors fun is always good. If you get a super dense foam roll from a sporting goods type place things become a lot more comfortable.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> Assuming you have privacy outdoors fun is always good. If you get a super dense foam roll from a sporting goods type place things become a lot more comfortable.


Good idea! My knees were starting to kill me by the end. I'll look into that for the future.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. He always acts very safe when talking about sex, or initiating sex. It's always, "if you want to..." Which is strange, because he knows I ALWAYS want to.
> 
> Now I've been complaining on here for days, and last night he totally pulls a 180 a catches me by surprise.
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> He said he is sorry but he just isn't horny as much as me. And that I am free to get a vibrator. (Not that I need his permission.) I don't believe he actually thinks I will get one, but the joke's on him.
> 
> After telling me no to sex initially yesterday, we were sitting on the porch enjoying the night when he suggest we have sex out under the stars.
> 
> So we got ourselves a blanket, and I didn't even shower or shave. And we had some fun out in the front yard. Unfortunately things weren't working too good. So the sex was pretty bad, and I am sore today. I am disappointed in me, and hope that doesn't discourage him from future attempts. But it was still a lot of fun, and I am so happy that he made the effort, and got out of his box!
> 
> *This morning I got up early and made him breakfast, and he was being very loving. We were acting goofy, and just really enjoying each others company. I wish everyday was like this.*


Good experimenting :smthumbup: Although it was not comfortable, you guys were in it together and having fun. And with the suggestions from others perhaps it can be more than just fun next time 

"and he was being very loving" ..  That is so wonderful. I am hoping you have a zillion mornings just like that one. I really like hearing that part. I like it when he loves you without wanting a BJ or just loves you because you are what he really wants.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> John, you can think whatever you want about this.
> 
> If he had a higher sex drive, he would be wanting to get off more, period, no matter which way you look at it, and no matter if he is repressed.


But what your missing is the guilt can drive down sex drive. If you look around the internet you will see there are plenty of sites trying to help women overcome this guilty feeling imposed by some religion. I don't think women are the only ones affected.



fightforher said:


> Good experimenting :smthumbup: Although it was not comfortable, you guys were in it together and having fun. And with the suggestions from others perhaps it can be more than just fun next time
> 
> "and he was being very loving" ..  That is so wonderful. I am hoping you have a zillion mornings just like that one. I really like hearing that part. I like it when he loves you without wanting a BJ or just loves you because you are what he really wants.


:iagree:


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> But what your missing is the guilt can drive down sex drive. If you look around the internet you will see there are plenty of sites trying to help women overcome this guilty feeling imposed by some religion. I don't think women are the only ones affected.


Ok but I said IF he is repressed. There really isn't much other evidence of some deep dark repression. It was one tiny thing, and john mentioned it...but CW doesn't see other things that would come alongside repression. Yes repression and guilt definitely can shove down a person's sex drive. But if it is only to a small degree, and if you have a high or even medium sex drive, typically you would be forced to find an outlet for that dirty, dirty orgasm. I think CW would have seen something by now that showed he IS hot for something and that he is sneaking some alone time....if he had a medium or higher sex drive.

With a naturally/physically low sex drive, he will be less likely to seek that naughty outlet...the guilt can't really stamp out real lust, but it can stamp out some weak lust.

If he had a severe "naughty boy" complex, things would make more sense. But CW hasn't indicated this.

How many more signs does she need to have that he is simply not that sexual? This is very common, there are lots of examples of it. Do people really think this is impossible in men, but not in women?

Sorry but if you do think that, you are incorrect.

Sometimes there is simply no "reason", no smoking gun, no "cause", of a person being LD. They are just that naturally and there is nothing wrong with them. They typically wish others would stop trying to force them to be something they are not. Men who aren't that sexual particularly feel pressure this way and wish to just be accepted.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But guilt can lower your actual T levels. And then with the religious guilt gone you can be unwilling to do anything about it because you've finally beat that sin. 

Not saying this is her husband just saying this can happen. She would be the better judge of that and she may never tell us every suspicion and that's her prerogative.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Still swimming along. I was pretty sore from the outdoor event, and I thought I was battling a bladder infection. But I seem to be back in good health now. Had some good sex since then, and we have been getting along great.

I'm trying to wake up earlier with him every morning. He says he likes to spend that extra 30 minutes chatting and snuggling. But I'll admit it's hard to drag myself out of bed. I always enjoy it though once I get up. 

He was so snuggly last night while we were sleeping I almost felt smothered.  It was so hot that I had to keep gently pushing him off, but within a few minutes he root back up against me. It was storming pretty badly, and he is afraid of storms. So I am guessing he was scared. Which is pretty funny. 

My birthday is in a couple weeks, and he has been awful sneaky lately. I wonder what he is planning...


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He is afraid of storms? Can you talk a little more about that?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That is great Curious! Word of warning don't get your hopes too high on what he is planning for your birthday, you want to be able to enjoywhatever he comes up with.

As for the vibrator when are you ordering it? When you get it let him see it. For my husband it took the pressure off him but at the same time it became his fun goal to see if he could keep me from needing to use it.

I'm not a huge fan of storms either but I think that comes from having houses near us lit on fire by lightening.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> He is afraid of storms? Can you talk a little more about that?


His parents were always worry warts about storms. We live in tornado alley and every time a storm got bad or there was a tornado watch they would wake up their kids and go to the basement. 

I remember as a kid that my family would go outside and watch the storm. I remember going in the basement maybe twice? And that was only when we actually saw funnel clouds.

It didn't help that when he was about 14 one of his best friend's house got destroyed by a tornado. Luckily they were on vacation so no one was hurt, but it could have been very bad. They lost the house, and had to move away. That just encouraged his fear of storms.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> That is great Curious! Word of warning don't get your hopes too high on what he is planning for your birthday, you want to be able to enjoywhatever he comes up with.
> 
> As for the vibrator when are you ordering it? When you get it let him see it. For my husband it took the pressure off him but at the same time it became his fun goal to see if he could keep me from needing to use it.
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of storms either but I think that comes from having houses near us lit on fire by lightening.


Oh I don't expect a party or anything. But he usually goes crazy with the gifts. Birthdays and Holidays are kind of a new thing to me. My parents never made a big deal out of them, and rarely celebrated them. His family are like Holiday and Birthday freaks. They go all out. Gifts, decorations, parties. I'm still getting used to it. 

Money is so tight right now due to car troubles.  So I can't justify it at this moment. Hoping I can come up with the money in a couple weeks. Maybe as a birthday present to me!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You can hum Happy Birthday to Curious while you use it!


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Even better get one with variable speeds and learn to play happy birthday with the speed settings!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Even better get one with variable speeds and learn to play happy birthday with the speed settings!


I'll.have to.try that!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Still swimming along. I was pretty sore from the outdoor event, and I thought I was battling a bladder infection. But I seem to be back in good health now. Had some good sex since then, and we have been getting along great.
> 
> I'm trying to wake up earlier with him every morning. He says he likes to spend that extra 30 minutes chatting and snuggling. But I'll admit it's hard to drag myself out of bed. I always enjoy it though once I get up.
> 
> He was so snuggly last night while we were sleeping I almost felt smothered.  It was so hot that I had to keep gently pushing him off, but within a few minutes he root back up against me. It was storming pretty badly, and he is afraid of storms. So I am guessing he was scared. Which is pretty funny.
> 
> My birthday is in a couple weeks, and he has been awful sneaky lately. I wonder what he is planning...


It would appear that you are also his comfort. That is a good thing in my opinion. There are a lot of rough patches in life, and when you can be there to comfort each other when they occur, then you can be closer. So enjoy the snuggle, and know that you are giving something to him.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious...as you know I'm usually pretty "he's LD people!" on your thread. Lol! But he is definitely NOT zero D. And he has actually given you some hints along the way that may not seem that important but could yield a bit more sex for you.

There were some suggestions my H made early in our relationship when I wanted more frequency, and I couldn't see how they would help so I kind of ignored or avoided some of them. I followed others, but ignored some...it didn't take me long to figure out that the ones I had ignored were probably more effective than the ones I followed.

He has told you a few things that I recall:

Be more seductive.

Do a strip tease for him.

Be more "sexy".

I know the be more "sexy" one has really hurt you, but I do think if you can just let go of the hurt you could really get more sexy in the way HE thinks you are more sexy...and if he is treating you like you are sexy, you will feel that sexual vibe from him that you are seeking.

So now he has also asked for you to get up early with him. This kind of thing, surprisingly, can lead to more sex. If chatting and snuggling in the early morning are foreplay to him, then it will pay off in the long run.

When I followed all of the instructions my husband gave me similar to the ones above, I got my effort back double or triple in excellent sex. My H isn't LD but he is lower than me (all my partners have been) so I still sought out the same kinds of answers you have been trying to get back in the early parts of our relationship (basically I was consumed with "how do I get more sex?" for a long period in my life, including right before I met him). 

Also, I had to learn to sort out my real intentions and desires and sort of prioritize them. If I felt like I wanted to have sex with him, was it because...

I missed him emotionally and wanted to connect?

I was horny and wanted to get off?

I was wanting full intensity of emotions and wanted to get my brains F'd out?

All three of these?

If I knew which of these I was feeling, I knew which ones could be dealt with via masturbation, mutual masturbation, a quickie, or a full session. And knowing this helps because I know what I'm really asking of him sexually when I'm going in. This helps us not disappoint each other and helps me schedule and plan the best times for sex for us.

Having some idea of a schedule always helps our sex life. I know you have a mental calendar of what is going on in your lives, because we hear you here telling us "this week we can't because X, and next week we have visitors" etc. This is great, but if you can get to the point where you are both looking at this together and thinking about how much free time you have in the upcoming week, you might find him more happy with this.

I'm not saying you're going to turn him into a tiger, but you know that. 

I'm saying you could take the clues he's given you and put them to use and get a little more and maybe better quality sex.

HOWEVER....if you did these things and he still didn't change, then you should immediately stop doing them. You shouldn't stick your neck out at all unless it pays off in obvious ways. But if it does...it will be well worth the effort.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree he isn't zero drive. He can and will have sex. He just isn't as excited or passionate about it as me. But I am thankful that we aren't sexless.

I want to fulfill his wishes, but the sexy thing is still a sore subject. He hasn't said anything hurtful about it for several months, but last night the sun was shining through our windows and making a funny shadow of me. So I started dancing and thrusting and he said, "See look, even your shadow is more sexy than you."



As soon as it came out of his mouth he realized how hurtful it sounded, and he tried to back pedal and say he didn't mean it like that. But again the damage is done. Every time I'm starting to become more confident and feel safe enough to relax he makes some stupid or rude comment and then I crawl back into my shell. I know I shouldn't take it personally, but it's hard to be bold when I have to wonder what he is thinking about me all the time.

As far as getting up early, I am doing better. I did get up early this morning and spent time with him. So things are good on that front. I think he really enjoys that time.

Thanks for your ideas! I always appreciate your advice.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We had some fantastic sex last night which he initiated. 

I was SO freaking horny, and he actually teased me a little bit, so by the time he gave me what I wanted I thought I was going to explode. Usually he just rushes everything, so it was a very welcome change, even though at the time I thought I was going to growl at him to just give it to me already. lol.


----------



## NewHubs

TheCuriousWife said:


> We had some fantastic sex last night which he initiated.
> 
> I was SO freaking horny, and he actually teased me a little bit, so by the time he gave me what I wanted I thought I was going to explode. Usually he just rushes everything, so it was a very welcome change, even though at the time I thought I was going to growl at him to just give it to me already. lol.


That's great CW! Did he at least make the bed move ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, is he any better at saying other things? I ask cause if he is always good with words than that would be offensive to me. But if he is often putting his foot in his mouth, things always coming out different than he intended, often saying things like "that sounded better in my head"; then I would have to realize that he probably did it again. Something he meant to sound funny sounded rude.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Curious, is he any better at saying other things? I ask cause if he is always good with words than that would be offensive to me. But if he is often putting his foot in his mouth, things always coming out different than he intended, often saying things like "that sounded better in my head"; then I would have to realize that he probably did it again. Something he meant to sound funny sounded rude.


He is a very smooth talker. He is full of charm and wit. He is kind of quiet, and really only talks, to quote him "if he thinks he has something important to say."

On the other hand I am a rambler. I could go on and on about nothing. 

So yes. It does offend me when he says stuff like this. Things don't accidentally slip out of his mouth. Everything he says is truth to him.

He doesn't exaggerate or lie. Ever.

Which is attractive in most ways, and he is so hilarious. But he is also known for being blunt, and not sparing any feelings. He often says things that could count as rude.

Ie: 

"That shirt looks funny." "You told me that already, yesterday." "Your breath smells bad." "Your being dramatic." "This food is horrible."

To him he isn't being mean, he just simply values honesty, and will tell you exactly what he thinks. 

I am sensitive, and get my feelings hurt pretty easily. So this makes for a bad match.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah then that would bug me too!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What is his definition of sexy? It may not match your definition. Might be worth asking.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> What is his definition of sexy? It may not match your definition. Might be worth asking.


He can't tell me. He just says, I don't know.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he doesn't know what sexy is, then how in the world does he know if you are sexy or not? Makes no sense Curious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> If he doesn't know what sexy is, then how in the world does he know if you are sexy or not? Makes no sense Curious.


:iagree:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He can't tell me. He just says, I don't know.





karole said:


> If he doesn't know what sexy is, then how in the world does he know if you are sexy or not? Makes no sense Curious.


He knows! But that doesn't mean he can articulate it, it doesn't mean he doesn't find it emberassing!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree he isn't zero drive. He can and will have sex. He just isn't as excited or passionate about it as me. But I am thankful that we aren't sexless.
> 
> I want to fulfill his wishes, but the sexy thing is still a sore subject. He hasn't said anything hurtful about it for several months, but last night the sun was shining through our windows and making a funny shadow of me. So I started dancing and thrusting and he said, "*See look, even your shadow is more sexy than you."
> *
> 
> 
> As soon as it came out of his mouth he realized how hurtful it sounded, and he tried to back pedal and say he didn't mean it like that. But again the damage is done. Every time I'm starting to become more confident and feel safe enough to relax he makes some stupid or rude comment and then I crawl back into my shell. I know I shouldn't take it personally, but it's hard to be bold when I have to wonder what he is thinking about me all the time.
> 
> As far as getting up early, I am doing better. I did get up early this morning and spent time with him. So things are good on that front. I think he really enjoys that time.
> 
> Thanks for your ideas! I always appreciate your advice.


He has a lot to learn about tact! 

He should have just said, "gee, your shadow is sexy too." or something like that.

Sorry, he sometimes is just not thinking before he says something.

And as far as sexy goes, well if even your shadow is sexy, then it follows that your silhouette is sexy. And that is a good thing.

Good thing that you are getting up early and connecting. This is all the little parts of communicating to make marriage better. Some people just forget the little bits of time where attention is focused on each other. As the marriage progresses, people spend less effort on creating this time - they get lazy. So it is a good thing you are recognizing it is important. Keep remembering that it is important, and you will keep the fire alive. 

I really like what FaithfulWife said and her story. Excellent clue reading. So difficult to try to focus on other things and let sex increase naturally, rather than just concentrate on ways to get more sex. A very good example of how to turn a situation into something better - how to work with what you have. Story is also touching. (see http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/98817-ld-husband-journal-138.html#post9608626)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am slowly getting him to open up about communicating about sex. But it takes a lot of prodding.

Last night he did another one of these, "If you want to have sex...."

I told him I HATE that line. I told him a want passion, I want desire, I want to feel like he actually wants to have sex with me instead of just doing it out of guilt. I want him to say, "Baby, I just can't stand it anymore. I want to have sex now."

He said he doesn't feel passion or desire though.  Ouch.

I asked him if he ever felt horny, and he said no.  He said that we do it too much for him to ever get horny, except for like period week where we don't do it for 7+ days. Then he starts to crave it a little.

So basically he told me that he doesn't ever think about sex, and that the only reason he even initiates is just because he knows that after a couple days I want it badly, so he is doing it for me. I knew that already, but for some reason it was disappointing hearing it. 

I just don't understand that at all. So he gave me an analogy. He said I was like a big diesel truck. You fill me up, but I only get 5 miles to the gallon so I run out of gas quick, and I need another fill up. He said he has a higher mpg, and he can run for a very long time before he needs another fill up. 

Sticking with his analogy, I told him maybe he should put twice as much in me, and maybe I would get farther.  He said sorry, but he just didn't have the "cash." 

I am glad he does think of my needs enough to realize that I need sex at least every few days. But I think I was hoping that secretly he thought about sex, even a little. And that if I waited a few days for him to come to me, that he would be wanting it as badly as I do. 

I can't make him fake desire that isn't there. I guess I should be thankful that he has sex with me as much as he does, even though he is not in the mood. And just accept it when he offers "if I want to." He is never going to push me down on the bed and start ripping off my clothes, or text me about how he can't stop thinking about me all day. I'm setting myself up for disappointment when I expect these things.

Now I also feel bad about wanting sex 3 times a week. If he truly is not in the mood in the slightest, why should I force him to do something that he does not enjoy? I feel really selfish now. I feel like I am using him.

I asked him if we should cut back to once or twice a week, so that way he could get that build up, and enjoy it more too. He didn't answer. 

Now I am really confused.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You should have taken the opportunity while you guys were talking to ask him to get checked by a doctor. I know that he can just be low drive (before anyone starts screaming), but it wouldn't hurt to get him checked out by a doctor to make sure there isn't something physically wrong with him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> You should have taken the opportunity while you guys were talking to ask him to get checked by a doctor. I know that he can just be low drive (before anyone starts screaming), but it wouldn't hurt to get him checked out by a doctor to make sure there isn't something physically wrong with him.


I did bring it up. Again. 

He is always so chipper, and full of energy in the mornings. I asked him why this morning and he said it was probably from the natural T boost. I took that opportunity to say, "Wouldn't you like to feel like that all the time. We could go get checked out, and then you'd have energy and feel great all the time."

He said no.

ETA: He thinks it is normal and fine for him to not be horny. He has no desire to get checked out, or take T boosters even if he got tested and came back low. He says he is fine with how he is.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Then don't feel guilty about holding him to 3x a week. He won't try to change don't feel bad it's hard for him to keep up. What if you were bike riding and he got a flat but refused to change it, would you feel bad it was hard for him to keep up on a flat tire, probably not! Asking him for less would just make him more comfortable in the place he's in.

Like I mentioned before coming from a strict religious background he likely feels glad that he finally beat this temptation of lust thing. He never got to have sex as a high drive male so he has no idea how good it can be, so no incentive there. My husband said at first that was the way he felt, but the longer we went along the more it bugged him that he wasn't able to give me everything I need. I think Mr Curious telling you to get a vibrator is a good sign, he realizes he is not keeping up. To me it seems he even realizes that there is nothing wrong with you.

You want passion and desire, he does seem to have some passion and desire for you just not for sex. He is trying to take care of your needs now that he realizes it is a need. He seems to desire you being happy, he's just still struggling thru his crap. He is moving forward so I would just continue to be firmly patient.

PS 
I really think every attempt you will make at this time trying to get him to be mad with desire will just leave you in a puddle of tears. Just bask in the love of a man who is trying to fulfill you, even though he won't get tested. Also until he understands what a truly healthy level is you are better off not getting him tested or else some doc who thinks sitting quite low is fine would tell him he is perfectly fine cause he is one point above low. And you would be left with that.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What in the world will you do as he gets older and his sex drive decreases even more?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As he gets older he may not feel so self conscious about getting tested. As it gets lower he may feel more need to fix it cause he feels worse all together not just libido.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I wonder if in Curious' husband's mind he has a normal sex drive and he thinks that Curious is over-sexed?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,

You need to get better at listening, understanding and accepting. 

When you asked about cutting back to once or twice a week and he was silent. The silence was a very strong YES response. 

I'm not suggesting what you do with it. I am suggesting that you need to accept the truth in the answer. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> I am slowly getting him to open up about communicating about sex. But it takes a lot of prodding.
> 
> Last night he did another one of these, "If you want to have sex...."
> 
> I told him I HATE that line. I told him a want passion, I want desire, I want to feel like he actually wants to have sex with me instead of just doing it out of guilt. I want him to say, "Baby, I just can't stand it anymore. I want to have sex now."
> 
> He said he doesn't feel passion or desire though.  Ouch.
> 
> I asked him if he ever felt horny, and he said no.  He said that we do it too much for him to ever get horny, except for like period week where we don't do it for 7+ days. Then he starts to crave it a little.
> 
> So basically he told me that he doesn't ever think about sex, and that the only reason he even initiates is just because he knows that after a couple days I want it badly, so he is doing it for me. I knew that already, but for some reason it was disappointing hearing it.
> 
> I just don't understand that at all. So he gave me an analogy. He said I was like a big diesel truck. You fill me up, but I only get 5 miles to the gallon so I run out of gas quick, and I need another fill up. He said he has a higher mpg, and he can run for a very long time before he needs another fill up.
> 
> Sticking with his analogy, I told him maybe he should put twice as much in me, and maybe I would get farther.  He said sorry, but he just didn't have the "cash."
> 
> I am glad he does think of my needs enough to realize that I need sex at least every few days. But I think I was hoping that secretly he thought about sex, even a little. And that if I waited a few days for him to come to me, that he would be wanting it as badly as I do.
> 
> I can't make him fake desire that isn't there. I guess I should be thankful that he has sex with me as much as he does, even though he is not in the mood. And just accept it when he offers "if I want to." He is never going to push me down on the bed and start ripping off my clothes, or text me about how he can't stop thinking about me all day. I'm setting myself up for disappointment when I expect these things.
> 
> Now I also feel bad about wanting sex 3 times a week. If he truly is not in the mood in the slightest, why should I force him to do something that he does not enjoy? I feel really selfish now. I feel like I am using him.
> 
> I asked him if we should cut back to once or twice a week, so that way he could get that build up, and enjoy it more too. He didn't answer.
> 
> Now I am really confused.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I wonder if in Curious' husband's mind he has a normal sex drive and he thinks that Curious is over-sexed?


Yes, yes, yes.

He sees once a week as normal. He thinks I am a sex maniac. 

And maybe he is right. Maybe I want too much.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> As he gets older he may not feel so self conscious about getting tested. As it gets lower he may feel more need to fix it cause he feels worse all together not just libido.


I certainly hope so!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> TCW,
> 
> You need to get better at listening, understanding and accepting.
> 
> When you asked about cutting back to once or twice a week and he was silent. The silence was a very strong YES response.
> 
> I'm not suggesting what you do with it. I am suggesting that you need to accept the truth in the answer.


It's hard to listen when he won't communicate. If he came out and said, "I really don't like sex. Can we please slow down." I would! But he doesn't want to tell me anything. I'm just left to guess and draw my own conclusions.

He was silent, but then later on he said he was fine with what we have, and that he didn't mind doing it 3 times a week, if we had time. He sends me so many mixed messages, I never know what to think.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No you are not abnormal Curious!! It's just sad that you are having to miss the utter enjoyment you should be having in your newlywed years. I fear what is in store for you later down the road................Hugs!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Then don't feel guilty about holding him to 3x a week. He won't try to change don't feel bad it's hard for him to keep up. What if you were bike riding and he got a flat but refused to change it, would you feel bad it was hard for him to keep up on a flat tire, probably not! Asking him for less would just make him more comfortable in the place he's in.


This is an interesting POV. Thanks! That helps it make sense.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> No you are not abnormal Curious!! It's just sad that you are having to miss the utter enjoyment you should be having in your newlywed years. I fear what is in store for you later down the road................Hugs!


Is 2 or 3 times a week missing out though? :scratchhead:

Many people would be ecstatic at that number, so I feel kind of spoiled wanting more.

I struggle with deciding what is enough, and when I am just expecting too much.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If I were in your position, your age and had been married as long as you, then it would not be enough for me. My husband and I had sex almost every day the first few years of our marriage. We have been married 28 years Curious and we still have sex 3 times per week and we are old folks!! (early 50s).


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> If I were in your position, your age and had been married as long as you, then it would not be enough for me. My husband and I had sex almost every day the first few years of our marriage. We have been married 28 years Curious and we still have sex 3 times per week and we are old folks!! (early 50s).


:smthumbup:

You are very fortunate, congratz!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> You are very fortunate, congratz!


Thank you and Yes I am!!!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I asked him if he ever felt horny, and he said no.  He said that we do it too much for him to ever get horny, except for like period week where we don't do it for 7+ days. Then he starts to crave it a little.
> 
> So basically he told me that he doesn't ever think about sex, and that the only reason he even initiates is just because he knows that after a couple days I want it badly, so he is doing it for me. I knew that already, but for some reason it was disappointing hearing it.


When he would ask you for an unreciprocated BJ, what was he thinking about then?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It's hard to listen when he won't communicate. If he came out and said, "I really don't like sex. Can we please slow down." I would! But he doesn't want to tell me anything. I'm just left to guess and draw my own conclusions.
> 
> He was silent, but then later on he said he was fine with what we have, and that he didn't mind doing it 3 times a week, if we had time. He sends me so many mixed messages, I never know what to think.


For my husband that usually meant he didn't know what to say but after giving it thought he had decided what he thought and now had an answer. For me it was only a mixed message cause I was reading a half typed message, it really wasn't his fault.



karole said:


> If I were in your position, your age and had been married as long as you, then it would not be enough for me. My husband and I had sex almost every day the first few years of our marriage. We have been married 28 years Curious and we still have sex 3 times per week and we are old folks!! (early 50s).


We are in our 40s and we usually hit 3-7 now. I can tell his T is sinking and we need to watch what we are eating etc when we go down to 2 or less.



Tall Average Guy said:


> When he would ask you for an unreciprocated BJ, what was he thinking about then?


That's not happening anymore, it could be because she won't allow it but it also could be partially cause his levels have dropped even more.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I wonder if in Curious' husband's mind he has a normal sex drive and he thinks that Curious is over-sexed?


Probably. Very often the LD spouse thinks they are normal and the HD spouse is the most ridiculously over-sexed person on the planet. Especially if they don't have much experience for a real comparison.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> That's not happening anymore, it could be because she won't allow it but it also could be partially cause his levels have dropped even more.


Understood, but what he said was that he has never thought about sex. My sense (from CW's posts) is that his position is that he has always been like this. My point is that it sure seems like he did at one time. So has something changed, or is he conveniently forgetting his prior actions when they were on his terms?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
Are they really mixed? 

The 'I'm ok with - if we have time' is the classic LD avoidance dance. 

Two adults, no kids, 5 day work weeks. This whole too busy thing is just a dodge. 

Part of the reason you might be confused is:
- He likes certain parts of sex - not to be crude
- He is ok with others 
- Dislikes some things 

But his positioning - using being too busy as an excuse and warning you in advance about what life will be like after babies - is a dead giveaway. 

My guess is that you already have a good idea what he likes / doesn't like about sex. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> It's hard to listen when he won't communicate. If he came out and said, "I really don't like sex. Can we please slow down." I would! But he doesn't want to tell me anything. I'm just left to guess and draw my own conclusions.
> 
> He was silent, but then later on he said he was fine with what we have, and that he didn't mind doing it 3 times a week, if we had time. He sends me so many mixed messages, I never know what to think.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Understood, but what he said was that he has never thought about sex. My sense (from CW's posts) is that his position is that he has always been like this. My point is that it sure seems like he did at one time. So has something changed, or is he conveniently forgetting his prior actions when they were on his terms?


Oh yeah he's conveniently forgetting. He wants to think he is fine, he's still in denial. 

You can be kind, compassionate, and understanding while still not making it easy for him to stay in denial forever. Sounds like the reason he won't change the tire is because he's either denying it's flat or worse yet denying the bicycle even has a tire.


----------



## CarlaRose

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

WOWWWW! 141 pages. After reading the first page, I saw how many pages this thread is and immediately became exhausted. LOL

Sorry, but I can't make it through all those pages, so I came here to the last page and see the same thing(s) are being stated. Please forgive if I repeat what has already been said, but I don't know if you've considered the problem or possible solution(s) because it doesn't seem like it.

Your husband had told you a couple different things more than once, so I don't get you still saying he won't communicate. He said he wants to be able to pursue you and he mentioned the difficulty involved.

I disagree with MEM saying your husband's silent answer was "yes" because there still remains the problem of him being unable to chase you and unable to feel he persuaded/conquered you. So, while he doesn't have a problem with sex in general or the frequency, I think the thought of it is just no fun for him because he's denied the victory of the score. Fishing wouldn't have as much appeal if the fish jumped into his bucket (a generalization for men who like to fish). He needs to feel he caught you.

Therefore, I don't think his silent answer was a resounding "Yes" but more like a "Yeah, that would be great if you weren't always so horny." I believe your husband needs to feel he's giving you all he's got, as opposed to feeling like you're getting all you can get. In other words, you're not receiving, you're taking. 

In the former scenario, he is able to score you, and you get pleased due to his efforts. He gets to satisfy his alpha need to hunt and be proud, as well, of his own sexual prowess. 

In the latter scenario, he doesn't get to express those alpha traits. While he can still please you, it's not the same because those alpha traits are not mutually exclusive. He doesn't like that you're always wanton and ready. While you don't deny him his primal need for sex, you do deny him his primal need for the hunt and also the victory.

I'm wondering if you AND he know where your erogenous zones are located. I'm not criticizing at all, but I can't quite get that it's so hard, and eventually hurting, to bring you to orgasm. It sounds like a lot of work, so I can understand if he gets tired and becomes less enthused.

I don't think either of you needs to change nor should have to adjust and tolerate your differences. There are some things that you and he both can try to remedy the problems you're having. 

One is for you to try ginseng. Everyone knows it to be an aphrodisiac, but it doesn't make you horny nor hornier. What it does is increase sensation, so sex feels waaayyy better and you will more likely orgasm faster. You can make ginseng tea and what I find to work even better is ginseng gum when chewed 30-60 minutes before your sessions.

What your husband can try is testosterone hormone implants. Lower than normal potentcy will bring him to a level of not minding, and probably preferring, that his wife is always ready to go. If tests reveal he doesn't need any testosterone, then horny goat weed is a natural herb that can help.

Perhaps you and he discussed this and he's not game for it. Like I said, I didn't read the thread, but I'd be pretty upset if he refused.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Turn you settings to 40 posts per page, it makes it easier, I only have 53 pgs. It would be good to at least read the last several pages before giving your opinion. 

Her husband is not willing to admit there is a problem at the time and is definitely not willing to get tested. But he is willing to try to meet her needs, this came after him reading some of the sex starved marriage at her request. It is still frustrating cause he is still lacking desire and passion.

Is that about right Curious?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't have time to give detailed responses right now. I will tomorrow. But I just wanted to give my quick input to some things that stand out.

CarlaRose, he is not willing to take any sort of supplement or enhancer, at all.

Also I have stopped pursing him. I rarely initiate anymore. I don't nag, beg, or even mention sex most of the time. Maybe once every couple weeks. He can "chase" me all he wants, but he doesn't. 

I know what makes me hot. Usually I can get off in 10 minutes or less. (By myself its only a minute or two.) BUT if he is acting bored, making rude comments, or acting completely uninterested in sex and just doing it as a chore, then it's harder for me to relax and enjoy it, which slows things down. He knows this. If he just put a little more effort into it, or acted remotely excited about having sex with me, we wouldn't have those problems. 

But like I said, he's been better. So we've been having a very high success rate, and very quickly for a while now. 

If he can't get me there, I can go finish myself in the shower within a minute or two. So it's not something wrong with me, it's just emotional problems. He doesn't try to put me in the mood, or sweet talk, or flirt, or be romantic. He will just watch tv for hours then sudden look up and say, "okay we can have sex if you want to."

It's hard to go from ice cold, to a fiery passion, when he has acted uninterested all day.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> Are they really mixed?
> 
> The 'I'm ok with - if we have time' is the classic LD avoidance dance.
> 
> Two adults, no kids, 5 day work weeks. This whole too busy thing is just a dodge.
> 
> Part of the reason you might be confused is:
> - He likes certain parts of sex - not to be crude
> - He is ok with others
> - Dislikes some things
> 
> But his positioning - using being too busy as an excuse and warning you in advance about what life will be like after babies - is a dead giveaway.
> 
> My guess is that you already have a good idea what he likes / doesn't like about sex.


I know it's just a dodge. I'm way busier than him, and I still want to have sex.

I know he isn't interested in sex, I'm not sure what your trying to argue. lol

But honestly, I'm really not sure what he does or does not like about sex. I know he likes blow jobs. Everything else is just a guess. 

I really don't even know where to touch him to turn him on. I just "shoot in the dark." Because when I ask him what he likes, what he wants he says he doesn't know, or says he doesn't really like to be touched so it doesn't do anything for him. 

So I just try my best and hope he likes it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yesterday kind of turned into a sexual disaster. 

We planned the morning off, and had a long, leisurely love making session in mind. He seemed genuinely interested and excited, it was his idea. 

Well first we had construction workers at our house, they didn't bother us, but the noise and people walking past the windows was distracting, and seemed to make him jumpy. 

Then his father called, and chatted for like a 5 minutes about nothing while husband was trying to get off the phone. So we had to stop then restart. Then his father stopped by unannounced, and knocked on the door. (We didn't answer, and he left.) But of course that stopped things again. Finally things were going good, and then the phone rings again and we don't answer, but it's enough to be a distraction.

By now I had been to the brink of orgasm more than 3 times, and it seems like once you get so far it's nearly impossible to get them back, especially after repeated times. Husband was mad that we got disturbed, and that he forgot to turn off the phone. 

He was going limp, and in a bad mood. (Not at me, but it still killed the mood.) I knew I wasn't going to get to the edge again, and the mood was completely gone by now. So I wanted to just finish him. I was chipper about it, and was perfectly fine with taking care of his needs. And he went into this pouty, "I don't deserve to finish because you didn't get yours." 

I calmed him down, but it took a while to get him there, and I had to use hands because PIV was just not possible when he was that unaroused. 

I didn't act upset or anything, but he was pretty unhappy and felt guilty that our special weekend was ruined. He kept apologizing, which of course made me feel bad that I couldn't finish. 

Arg. It was just a mess. Oh well. There is always another time. He takes it so personally when I can't finish, and it really puts pressure on me.

I can tell certain things are improving though. His friend stayed the night last night and at about 3am, my husband slid into bed with me. I'm glad he realizes that it is important to me, and does it willingly now.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I finally figured out all the sneaking. Yesterday he threw me a surprise birthday party. 

It was two weeks early, so I really was surprised. Everyone hid, and when they jumped out I'm like, "Who's birthday is it?"

He worked really hard on it, and his entire family was there, they baked my favorite cake, and my mom and dad were even there and brought my favorite food. 

They all went into together and bought me a really lavish gift. I feel slightly guilty about it because of the price, but I know one of husbands love languages is gifts. 

I had a good time, and I felt really loved that everyone cared about me so much. 

It was a little sad that I have no friends except the one in another country, so it was only family, but I guess I should be thankful he has such a wonderful family. 

As a side note, my friends in said country called me the other day crying because her fiance fell asleep during sex, and has been turning her down recently. She is the only person that knows about my sexual problems and she was looking for advice. I pray that he was just having a bad week and that she won't have to deal with the same things as me for all eternity. I told her to be cautious, and she has decided if it continues it will be a deal breaker.

Mu heart hurts for her. She just got engaged last week, and he seems to be perfect match, up until this recent problem. But I was blunt with her, that it's not worth being miserable. Just getting rejected this week has already hurt her feelings quite a bit. I don't want her to follow the same road as me.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What a nice surprise. Maybe you will get another celebration on your actual birthday.............. I'm happy you had a good time. It was very thoughtful of your husband and his family.

You need to start thinking a little more of yourself Curious. Get out and make some new friends. Does your church have groups you could join? What about volunteering or joining a meet-up group. There are many opportunities available - you just have to put yourself out there. My husband and I used to ride bikes with a group of people - that was a lot of fun. Perhaps you could find something like that. I'm not the most social person in the world either - so I know how hard it can be to make new friends; however, you seem like such a sweet, caring person, I'm sure you could make lots of friends in no time if you just make the effort.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> What a nice surprise. Maybe you will get another celebration on your actual birthday.............. I'm happy you had a good time. It was very thoughtful of your husband and his family.
> 
> You need to start thinking a little more of yourself Curious. Get out and make some new friends. Does your church have groups you could join? What about volunteering or joining a meet-up group. There are many opportunities available - you just have to put yourself out there. My husband and I used to ride bikes with a group of people - that was a lot of fun. Perhaps you could find something like that. I'm not the most social person in the world either - so I know how hard it can be to make new friends; however, you seem like such a sweet, caring person, I'm sure you could make lots of friends in no time if you just make the effort.


Yes. I'm sure we will still have a personal celebration at home. 

I joined a meet up group for my profession, and I am looking forward to going to one of those. But they are an hour away, and it's just hard for me get enough time to go to one. They keep being on days I work.

Other than that, there isn't a lot of places to make friends around here. It sounds silly I know, and I do have some friends, but we are of the age where everyone is getting married, going to college, moving away. So everyone is scattered. We still hang out from time to time, during holidays breaks for example, or when they come back to visit. But I don't have any friends that actually live around here full time that I can just call up and go see a movie with or anything. 

Not to worry, I do see people. lol. One of my long distance friend's stopped by to visit this week and we went to lunch. I hadn't seen her for a year or two.

I will put my thinking cap on and see if I know anyone close by that I could pursue a friendship with. I miss being able to call up a girlfriend and go get coffee, or run to the mall.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
I'm going to make a radical suggestion. And I think you ought consider it a few days before you do anything. 

The core issue here is about honesty - or more precisely - a lack of honesty. 

It sounds like your H is, by nature very unfiltered. He generally says what's on his mind. 

Therefore IMO the most likely reason he avoids answering your myriad sexual questions is that he's afraid to. He LOVES you and is afraid you will leave him. 

He's trying to communicate as clearly as possible non verbally while avoiding any definitive statements. This allows him plausible deniability if you go ballistic. 

You have 5 very distinct options:
1. Continue to press for / hope for a healthy sex life with your H: This will result in you feeling chronically anxious and resentful. 

2. Accept that you won't ever have a healthy sex life with your H, take all the pressure off him and accept a gradual decline to a low frequency. You will be sad, and sometimes feel cheated, but won't be chronically tense. Keep the affection frequent, and the batteries in your vibrator fully charged. 

3. Openly outsource your sex life. Find your male counterpart - a married guy with kids who has no interest in a divorce, but has a wife like your H. 

4. Divorce.

IMO: The only bad option for you, is (1). You will slowly lose your mind due to a combination of rejection and his dishonesty. 

FWIW: I think he's a good man in an incredibly difficult situation. He isn't lying to be cruel. It's literally self preservation. 

And he is trying to avoid statements that are completely untrue. 

So he says he would like sex once a week. Which actually means he wants a BJ once a week. He is likely also ok with a BJ as foreplay with a quickie for intercourse. 

As for giving you oral sex, I'm guessing that he would happily go the rest of his life without doing that.  

If you were my daughter I would tell you to choose either option 3 or 4. 

That said, I believe there is a good chance he will strongly try to veto option 3. Which IMO is the height of LD selfishness. I personally would have trouble loving someone who wouldn't / couldn't meet a core need of mine, and aggressively tried to block me from getting it met in some other manner. 

Go read Red Sonja's posts/threads. Don't let that happen to you. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> I know it's just a dodge. I'm way busier than him, and I still want to have sex.
> 
> I know he isn't interested in sex, I'm not sure what your trying to argue. lol
> 
> But honestly, I'm really not sure what he does or does not like about sex. I know he likes blow jobs. Everything else is just a guess.
> 
> I really don't even know where to touch him to turn him on. I just "shoot in the dark." Because when I ask him what he likes, what he wants he says he doesn't know, or says he doesn't really like to be touched so it doesn't do anything for him.
> 
> So I just try my best and hope he likes it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I actually prefer a mixture of number 1 & 2. 

As much as I complain on here I am beginning to come to terms with our sex life. Of course I have days where I am sad, and hurt. But for the most part we have a good marriage, and I am happy. 

When first married I would often cry myself to sleep and wonder why I disgusted him. Now I am more nonchalant, and it's been awhile since I've cried about our sex life. 

I've accepted some things, and other things I continue to try to improve. We have come a long way, and while it's still far from ideal, it's shaping into something I can live with. Sure I won't be 100% satisfied, sure I will have days when I want to scream, but overall I am beginning to become okay with what we have. 

Will I change my mind in a couple years? Maybe. But for now, I am okay with how things are progressing. Not pleased, but okay.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

Good for you. I mean it. 

Before having children you need to write him a letter and then discuss it AFTER he reads it. And then both sign it. 

The letter should be positive. Thanking him for making the effort to find a middle ground on SI that works for both of you. And askng him to commit to continuing to show that commitment AFTER you have children. And telling him nicely that you would not be ok with having your sex life back burnered due to children. While children do require time and effort and emotional energy, schedule and priority adjustments need to be made OUTSIDE the bedroom to accommodate them. 

If he has a strong negative reaction to that letter - you will know where you stand. If however, he agrees and happily signs it, than you are likely ok. 

We had sex 5/week when the kids were 1, 3 and 7 years old. And kept that routine until they were mostly full grown.....





TheCuriousWife said:


> I actually prefer a mixture of number 1 & 2.
> 
> As much as I complain on here I am beginning to come to terms with our sex life. Of course I have days where I am sad, and hurt. But for the most part we have a good marriage, and I am happy.
> 
> When first married I would often cry myself to sleep and wonder why I disgusted him. Now I am more nonchalant, and it's been awhile since I've cried about our sex life.
> 
> I've accepted some things, and other things I continue to try to improve. We have come a long way, and while it's still far from ideal, it's shaping into something I can live with. Sure I won't be 100% satisfied, sure I will have days when I want to scream, but overall I am beginning to become okay with what we have.
> 
> Will I change my mind in a couple years? Maybe. But for now, I am okay with how things are progressing. Not pleased, but okay.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> We had sex 5/week when the kids were 1, 3 and 7 years old. And kept that routine until they were mostly full grown.....


Wow, that is good. How did you do it? When the kids are young, they are very demanding and need everything done for them. This is tiring .. which leads to falling asleep early in the evening once the kids are down. So how did you do it when they were young.

And when they got older, how did you do it. My older daughter comes into our bedroom and stays there chatting or watching TV and we try to kick her out, but by the time she has gone to her room and the lights are out it is late .. and .. out of time so to speak.

So, how did you do it?

In addition it gets difficult when we travel. Sometimes it is just not possible to book multiple rooms .. so we are all in the same room. We don't have much fun when we are all in the same room.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FFH,
Let's begin with: I was very fortunate, the thing I liked to do career wise was a thing that was in great demand. 

Starting with the easiest thing first: vacation always consisted of Mom and Dad having their own hotel room and the kids having a separate room. 

M2 was able to stay at home and she had no financial stress. 

The kids were in bed by 9 PM when they were young. 

And when they got older, I would gently bounce them from our room by 9:30 or so with the comment that: Dad has to get up early.

But M2 didn't use the kids as a way to avoid me. She just didn't.

I find that People are TOO BUSY to do the things that are a low priority to them. 

My guess is that in a typical sexless marriage the low drive spouse spends more than 10 hours a week watching TV. 




fightforher said:


> Wow, that is good. How did you do it? When the kids are young, they are very demanding and need everything done for them. This is tiring .. which leads to falling asleep early in the evening once the kids are down. So how did you do it when they were young.
> 
> And when they got older, how did you do it. My older daughter comes into our bedroom and stays there chatting or watching TV and we try to kick her out, but by the time she has gone to her room and the lights are out it is late .. and .. out of time so to speak.
> 
> So, how did you do it?
> 
> In addition it gets difficult when we travel. Sometimes it is just not possible to book multiple rooms .. so we are all in the same room. We don't have much fun when we are all in the same room.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> FFH,
> Let's begin with: I was very fortunate, the thing I liked to do career wise was a thing that was in great demand.
> 
> Starting with the easiest thing first: vacation always consisted of Mom and Dad having their own hotel room and the kids having a separate room.
> 
> M2 was able to stay at home and she had no financial stress.
> 
> The kids were in bed by 9 PM when they were young.
> 
> And when they got older, I would gently bounce them from our room by 9:30 or so with the comment that: Dad has to get up early.
> 
> But M2 didn't use the kids as a way to avoid me. She just didn't.
> 
> I find that People are TOO BUSY to do the things that are a low priority to them.
> 
> *My guess is that in a typical sexless marriage the low drive spouse spends more than 10 hours a week watching TV.*


Hard to get two rooms at some of the overbooked places we try to go .  Seems like we are lucky to get two queen beds :lol:

The TV thing .. very interesting. I am going to have to keep track of that one and just see how much TV is going on. When I am alone, I don't watch much TV.

From the thread here - it seems that Curious has a TV watching spouse. I joked about having an electrician rig the TV to break when she wanted attention. Now I am thinking it would not be such a bad idea.

And of course now there is the computer to contend with.

Perhaps there was more sex back before the transistor was invented?

But how did you handle all the little "housekeeping" chores with the kids. Even if the kids are all in bed by 9:30, it seems like there is "adult" things to do like pay the bills, fill out forms for school, assemble that item from Ikea etc. How did you manage to get all that stuff done after the kids went to bed and still have time for sex?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You make time for what's important to you. Putting furniture together or having sex??? It's a no-brainer to me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> I find that People are TOO BUSY to do the things that are a low priority to them.


THIS.

I'm very very busy, but too busy to have sex? No.

Husband is not very busy, but too busy to have sex? Yes.

I make sex a priority, because it is important to me. You find time.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This week really stinks.

I am working 12 hours days all week. And my period started a day early. That has never happened before. So of course our sex got cancelled. Meaning no sex for another week, and it's already been a week since good sex. I'm not counting our Saturday disaster. 

I'm trying not to be upset, but husbands attitude... or lack of attitude makes me upset. He doesn't seem to care at all, and hasn't acted even the least bit horny, or said anything to show he is even remotely sad. I know I shouldn't expect different, but what can I say. I'm emotional right now. 

If he asks for a blow job so help me I'm going to rip into him like a monkey on a cupcake. He better watch out. 

He's trying to be all nice and rub my back, and get me drinks, etc, but work has been so stressful, and I feel so PMSy I just feel like smacking him. Poor guy.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
1. You need a vibrator 
2. If your H asks for a BJ, you ought to ask him to remind you how many times he's given you oral sex with no expectation that you will reciprocate....






TheCuriousWife said:


> This week really stinks.
> 
> I am working 12 hours days all week. And my period started a day early. That has never happened before. So of course our sex got cancelled. Meaning no sex for another week, and it's already been a week since good sex. I'm not counting our Saturday disaster.
> 
> I'm trying not to be upset, but husbands attitude... or lack of attitude makes me upset. He doesn't seem to care at all, and hasn't acted even the least bit horny, or said anything to show he is even remotely sad. I know I shouldn't expect different, but what can I say. I'm emotional right now.
> 
> If he asks for a blow job so help me I'm going to rip into him like a monkey on a cupcake. He better watch out.
> 
> He's trying to be all nice and rub my back, and get me drinks, etc, but work has been so stressful, and I feel so PMSy I just feel like smacking him. Poor guy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 1. You need a vibrator
> 2. If your H asks for a BJ, you ought to ask him to remind you how many times he's given you oral sex with no expectation that you will reciprocate....


I'm taking care of my own needs, no worries. It's just not the same. Sigh.

And good idea.  I'll remember that.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This week really stinks.
> 
> I am working 12 hours days all week. And my period started a day early. That has never happened before. So of course our sex got cancelled. Meaning no sex for another week, and it's already been a week since good sex. I'm not counting our Saturday disaster.
> 
> I'm trying not to be upset, but husbands attitude... or lack of attitude makes me upset. He doesn't seem to care at all, and hasn't acted even the least bit horny, or said anything to show he is even remotely sad. I know I shouldn't expect different, but what can I say. I'm emotional right now.
> 
> If he asks for a blow job so help me I'm going to rip into him *like a monkey on a cupcake*. He better watch out.
> 
> *He's trying to be all nice and rub my back, and get me drinks, etc, but work has been so stressful, and I feel so PMSy I just feel like smacking him. Poor guy*.


Monkey on a cupcake :rofl:

Sorry, tough time. The vibrator might come in handy right now as it would be a new experience for you right now. And that might take the edge off the week because it is new and different. Sort of get your mind off sex by fiddling around with the controls and testing to see how long the batteries last, how easy is it to clean up, and how fast it gets you off at different settings etc. 

Ok, I am wondering what you want him to do right now. Seriously, imagine he is your slave and will do anything you ask with joy in his heart because he loves you, what would he do? He is being nice, supportive, and understanding. What do you want him to do right now? Would you command him to have sex? Is that what would do it?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> You make time for what's important to you. Putting furniture together or having sex??? It's a no-brainer to me.


And that is what makes it hurt so much. If TV, video games, or some other task is more important than having sex, then it makes me feel unimportant. So I take in personally.

Wish everybody though sex was a priority.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Monkey on a cupcake :rofl:
> 
> Sorry, tough time. The vibrator might come in handy right now as it would be a new experience for you right now. And that might take the edge off the week because it is new and different. Sort of get your mind off sex by fiddling around with the controls and testing to see how long the batteries last, how easy is it to clean up, and how fast it gets you off at different settings etc.
> 
> Ok, I am wondering what you want him to do right now. Seriously, imagine he is your slave and will do anything you ask with joy in his heart because he loves you, what would he do? He is being nice, supportive, and understanding. What do you want him to do right now? Would you command him to have sex? Is that what would do it?


I stole that line from one of my favorite tv shows, "Everybody Loves Raymond." 

And honestly. I don't know what he could do to make me less grumpy. Girls are funny that way.  I'm not mad at him, I'm just stressed and feeling poorly. I haven't yelled at him or anything, I just don't feel like dealing with his normal behavior. Things that usually don't bother me, like him messing up my hair, is really getting on my nerves. 

When I'm grumpy I don't say mean things to him or act mean, I just get real quiet, and want to be away from people. 

I'll feel better after the weekend and I get some time off, but right now it feels good just to let some steam out.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> And that is what makes it hurt so much. If TV, video games, or some other task is more important than having sex, then it makes me feel unimportant. So I take in personally.
> 
> Wish everybody though sex was a priority.


:iagree:


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

A decent bicycle works wonders to help your clear your mind. I have found it the ultimate mind exercise especially if you have good scenery around.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I stole that line from one of my favorite tv shows, "Everybody Loves Raymond."
> 
> And honestly. I don't know what he could do to make me less grumpy. Girls are funny that way.  I'm not mad at him, I'm just stressed and feeling poorly. I haven't yelled at him or anything, I just don't feel like dealing with his normal behavior. Things that usually don't bother me, like him messing up my hair, is really getting on my nerves.
> 
> When I'm grumpy I don't say mean things to him or act mean, I just get real quiet, and want to be away from people.
> 
> I'll feel better after the weekend and I get some time off, but right now it feels good just to let some steam out.


Sounds like the best he can do is just be there for you. Perhaps give you a hug from time to time. Perhaps just listen, in case you want to vent.


----------



## Hope4love

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm already shutting down.  And that worries me too.
> 
> I used to come right out and tell him I was horny, or how I was thinking about him all day. Now I feel like I dance around him, and spend a lot of time trying to figure out the best way to bring it up, or maybe not bring it up at all.
> 
> I don't tell sexual jokes, I look away when he is changing, I'm always analyzing what he says and trying to decide if I should test the waters.
> 
> I'm trying to repress anything sexual. I've been doing good. (If you can call repressing your personality that.) Up until last night when I folded and finally came out and initiated. Of course I was stomped on, just like I knew I would be.
> 
> I've never been a screamer, or violent. But let me tell you, I'm pretty angry right now. Screaming and crying and throwing a temper tantrum and scaring the living daylights out of him is sounding pretty good right now.
> 
> Honestly I wish I could just flip the switch and go cold. But it's so hard for me. Dang it. It's getting easier though.


I know your situation seems bad, but don't ever try to turn off your sexuality. It's wonderful. Take it from a man with a low LD wife. Nothing good comes from trying to shut it down, and it's not a gift that should be taken lightly.


----------



## Hope4love

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This week really stinks.
> 
> I am working 12 hours days all week. And my period started a day early. That has never happened before. So of course our sex got cancelled. Meaning no sex for another week, and it's already been a week since good sex. I'm not counting our Saturday disaster.
> 
> I'm trying not to be upset, but husbands attitude... or lack of attitude makes me upset. He doesn't seem to care at all, and hasn't acted even the least bit horny, or said anything to show he is even remotely sad. I know I shouldn't expect different, but what can I say. I'm emotional right now.
> 
> If he asks for a blow job so help me I'm going to rip into him like a monkey on a cupcake. He better watch out.
> 
> He's trying to be all nice and rub my back, and get me drinks, etc, but work has been so stressful, and I feel so PMSy I just feel like smacking him. Poor guy.


Do you give him BJs regularly? Is he getting taken care of without taking care of you?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Sounds like the best he can do is just be there for you. Perhaps give you a hug from time to time. Perhaps just listen, in case you want to vent.


Yes. He just needs to be there to support me, and let me simmer for a few days. He's pretty good at it. 

I'm already feeling a little better, although work is going to be stressful for a few weeks. What I really need is a new job.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Hope4love said:


> I know your situation seems bad, but don't ever try to turn off your sexuality. It's wonderful. Take it from a man with a low LD wife. Nothing good comes from trying to shut it down, and it's not a gift that should be taken lightly.


I still wish I could turn it down. In fact, I think I have been a little bit successful, at least at repressing it. I don't pester him anymore, I don't ask him anymore. Things work out for the better this way. I'm still sexual. But I keep it to myself. 

In my marriage nothing but disappointment and rejection can come out of being HD.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I still wish I could turn it down. In fact, I think I have been a little bit successful, at least at repressing it. I don't pester him anymore, I don't ask him anymore. Things work out for the better this way. I'm still sexual. But I keep it to myself.
> 
> In my marriage nothing but disappointment and rejection can come out of being HD.


Bless your heart Curious, my heart just breaks for you.............((hugs))


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Hope4love said:


> Do you give him BJs regularly? Is he getting taken care of without taking care of you?


NO NO NO! 

Absolutely not.

He has had a total of 2 bjs this year. One on his birthday, and one on vacation. 

(That is not including bjs as foreplay, which he gets nearly 100% of the time.)

I've went over this many times, but since your new I'll explain. 

When first married I gave him bjs at least once a week. But he rarely did any oral on me. And never to completion. Just for about 2 minutes until he complained his mouth got tired. 

Also I want sex daily. If I give him a blow job then I won't get sex for 4+ days. Why should he be satisfied, as the LD partner, when I am dying for sex.

He has never reciprocated, or given me an orgasm without him getting one. Why should I put out for him, when he refuses to do the same for me? No thank you. My days of being a door mat are over.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Last night we were in bed snuggling to sleep like we usually do. Without a word he pulled me on top of him and kissed me passionately. At first I thought it was a bj scheme, so I started to pull away, but he grabbed my face and held me. 

We made out for a while, and groped each other. After a few minutes when we were breathless he put me back down and said, "I have a lot to do to you once cranky week is over." Then he kissed my forehead, told me he loved me, and went to sleep.



My little heart just about burst with happiness. He acted sexual without begging for a bj at the end! Whoot whoot.

Of course now I'm even more horny, and waiting all this time is going to kill me. lol.

I was proud of myself too. I didn't break down and ask for sex. I just enjoyed the moment.

If he did this more often during period week maybe I wouldn't dread it so much. A little flirting and teasing can be fun.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Well, that was good. And I really hope he holds his promise. Are you feeling desired now? So, he showed that he wanted *YOU*, and not just something for himself. That he wanted the connection and he let you know it. Now wonderful :smthumbup:

Well, if you were too busy with work to think about sex as often as you usually do, now you will be thinking about it a lot more. :lol:

Looking into my crystal ball shows a very hot passionate night in store for you. Oops .. now I am blushing .. better put my crystal ball away.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, you should let your husband know how much you enjoyed last night. Hopefully, he will keep it up on a regular basis.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious,
> 
> Well, that was good. And I really hope he holds his promise. Are you feeling desired now? So, he showed that he wanted *YOU*, and not just something for himself. That he wanted the connection and he let you know it. Now wonderful :smthumbup:
> 
> Well, if you were too busy with work to think about sex as often as you usually do, now you will be thinking about it a lot more. :lol:
> 
> Looking into my crystal ball shows a very hot passionate night in store for you. Oops .. now I am blushing .. better put my crystal ball away.


:smthumbup:

Yes, I am feeling desired. That is exactly what I want from him, and ask for all the time. But he just doesn't seem to get it. Obviously he _does_ get it, and can do it. I don't know why he doesn't. It's not that hard to say something sexy and kiss me or touch me for a few minutes at least once every day or two.  

Looking forward to seeing him tonight. I'm hoping he builds on it some more. 

My birthday is coming up. It's a week from tomorrow. I was thinking about asking for an oral orgasm. But I'm worried that I will pressure myself too much if I have to ask for it, and won't be able to get there.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Order your toy and you and your husband enjoy it for your birthday!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well yesterday was a wash. He was tired and grumpy. So he went to bed early to catch up on some sleep. But today when he got home we made out again. This time some clothes came off. He even offered to "rub" me for a while, although we didn't have enough time. And best of all he didn't ask for a blow job! Making progress.

:smthumbup:

Teasing is fun, but I'm ready for the real deal.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good, looks like the unappreciated blow jobs are in remission.


----------



## NewHubs

TheCuriousWife said:


> : I was thinking about asking for an oral orgasm. But I'm worried that I will pressure myself too much if I have to ask for it, and won't be able to get there.


If hubby delivers on this I'm sure he will get one hell of a BJ 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I love my husband. :smthumbup:

He has shown me so much love this weekend, and I feel so thankful.

Saturday we were messing around again and he started rubbing, so I started giving him a blow job. After a few minutes he said, "screw it" and he took me. I felt very desired, and I loved to see that more animalistic side of him. 

Besides that it has been a sad weekend. Two of my pets died within 48 hours. One was my baby. I've been a wreck and crying uncontrollably nearly non stop. He has been so sweet and good to me. He hasn't let my side all this time, and has just held me, brought me drinks, and handed me tissues. He has probably rubbed my back for more than 20 hours over the last couple days. 

I don't know if I've ever felt so deeply and genuinely cared for. Despite all our sexual disagreements, he is so good to me, and I know he loves me very much.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So very sorry for your loss Curious. It's so devastating to lose a pet that you love. I'm thankful your husband has been there for you.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> *My birthday is coming up. It's a week from tomorrow.* I was thinking about asking for an oral orgasm. But I'm worried that I will pressure myself too much if I have to ask for it, and won't be able to get there.


JMHO, but if I were you I would NOT try to link any sexual acts that you desire to your birthday. I know this is easier said than done. But because of your situation where your H is LD, I think it would put the idea into his mind that oral sex for you should be only given on special occasions. If I recall, your end game is to get him to open up to you more sexually. I don't forsee that happening if you start linking sex to special occasions.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I love my husband. :smthumbup:
> 
> He has shown me so much love this weekend, and I feel so thankful.
> 
> Saturday we were messing around again and he started rubbing, so I started giving him a blow job. After a few minutes he said, "screw it" and he took me. I felt very desired, and I loved to see that more animalistic side of him.
> 
> Besides that it has been a sad weekend. Two of my pets died within 48 hours. One was my baby. I've been a wreck and crying uncontrollably nearly non stop. He has been so sweet and good to me. He hasn't let my side all this time, and has just held me, brought me drinks, and handed me tissues. He has probably rubbed my back for more than 20 hours over the last couple days.
> 
> I don't know if I've ever felt so deeply and genuinely cared for. Despite all our sexual disagreements, he is so good to me, and I know he loves me very much.



Sorry for your loss.

But I have to say I am happy for you that you have a caring loving husband to be there for you. It is really super that he is so supportive when you need it. When you were sick, he was supportive too. These are qualities that are a requirement of a good spouse. Life has ups and downs, and having somebody to share them with is the best you can hope for.

I gotta say that abandoning the BJ for "taking you" is incredible. If you were to read this thread for the first, say 25 pages, you would have never thought it would have a post like that in it.

Do you feel highly desired, the center of his attention?


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> "I have a lot to do to you once cranky week is over."


No sex during that week? 

That is the one week my husband is all over me, mostly because I think the fear of getting my pregnant is a lot less. Otherwise my husband is more stand off-ish, although he has been getting better. 

Glad to hear your husband is getting better. I bet it feels great to be desired.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't think Curious's H has ever experienced period sex. I think he is missing out. I feel more desired and wanted at this time. She is willing to be intimate with me when she does not feel at her prime. Good feeling of being connected and sharing something very private.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> No sex during that week?
> 
> That is the one week my husband is all over me, mostly because I think the fear of getting my pregnant is a lot less. Otherwise my husband is more stand off-ish, although he has been getting better.
> 
> Glad to hear your husband is getting better. I bet it feels great to be desired.


No sex. Sometimes if I am lucky he will give in a little early, like during the weekend. But usually he makes me wait until Monday - Wednesday. It grosses him out I guess.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he can't take period sex, what is he going to do when you have kids? Some of the things you have to do for kids is a lot more gross than period sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It is amazing to me how good he can be in so many things, and then just crash and burn with sex. :scratchhead:

He has "promised" me sex on my Birthday and twice on Saturday. I say Boloney. I'd bet money that won't happen. I've been burned too many times, so I refuse to get my hopes up.

I still haven't had an orgasm _with him_ in 2 weeks. So I flirted last night, and he rejected me. I guess because of all the sex we are suppose to have this weekend he is "saving up" my free passes. Heaven forbid we have sex more than 3 times in a week. I feel like he is punishing me because he has to put out for my birthday. 

I'm sure he doesn't see it that way, but after a horrible weekend I just wanted to be intimate and get my mind off things, and instead I got refused. So I just went to bed at 9pm last night. Of course I didn't fall asleep until nearly midnight. 

Ho hum. Hopefully this week will be better than the last.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> If he can't take period sex, what is he going to do when you have kids? Some of the things you have to do for kids is a lot more gross than period sex.


I don't think he is actually grossed up. I think it is just an excuse to take a week off sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So last night he said something about how he never turns me down, he said all I have to do is ask. 

So I confronted him on rejecting on Monday. He said he didn't know that I wanted to have sex... Even though I said, and I quote, "Want to go get naked?" And he said no. So I told him there was no way he could have misinterpreted that, especially since I was fondling him and kissing his penis. :scratchhead:

He claims that he thought I was just being frisky because I always do that. And I explained that when I do that I want sex. I mean come on. If I go shower and get naked and am touching him, does he really think I'm just kidding around. I call bull crap.

He said I have to ask him straight if he wants to have sex, and he will. He says he NEVER rejects me. But I used to always do that, and he always said no, and that hurts worse than if I hint around and he just brushes me off. So I explained to him that I don't feel safe asking anymore because he usually rejects me. 

He gave me one of the, "Some people don't like having sex everyday." And I reminded him that I don't ask everyday, or very often at all. 

Then he changed his tune and said that rejection is a part of life, and that I am going to get told no sometimes, and that I just need to get over it. 

By now I just wanted to slug him. lol. So I went to take a nap and of course he followed me and apologized, and said he wanted me to feel safe asking, and that he wanted to make it up to me. etc.

Sigh. I am tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again, and having to spell everything out for him. 

Eventually he talked me into sex, and I'm glad. It was pretty great. Then we went and had a bonfire and played board games with friends. 

One of our friends has a new girlfriend and they are very touchy in public. I'm hoping it rubs off on my husband.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Heaven forbid we have sex more than 3 times in a week. I feel like he is punishing me because he has to put out for my birthday.
> 
> Ho hum. Hopefully this week will be better than the last.


Hope it gets better for you. 

My husband is very similar. 

My husband typically just wants sex on "his time", otherwise he is not interested.  If I try hard, as in trying to look sexy and being touchy, he backs away from me. I never understand it. Then he can say he is tired or has a headache to avoid sex, but if I say that, he would be upset. I was exhausted last night from a long day and from work, but still had that intimate time with my husband. Although last week, when I tried initiating, he said he was too tired and pushed me away. I so wish he followed the stereotype of a man who always wants sex. Although I have to say, since he has started exercising/jogging, his sex drive has increased... finally.


----------



## YummyGirl

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hello Curious Wife,
I'm new and I only skimmed your posts; thank you for sharing your experience. 
I'm married to a husband with LD; our sex life changed right after he proposed, and it only worsened over time. Now, in addition to psychological issues, he has physiological/biological issues including ED that have made our sex life non-existent. 
My husband is doing every thing in his power to fix his problems* because he realizes our marriage is at stake; our physical relationship is very important to both of us. 
I only mention my story because you seem much more willing to work on your marriage than your husband...and sex problems rarely improve over time without help.
I'm not judging--you just seem like a vibrant, lovely woman who deserves an equal partner in every aspect of a marriage. 
~YG
*My husband and I have been to therapy separately and together.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



YummyGirl said:


> Hello Curious Wife,
> I'm new and I only skimmed your posts; thank you for sharing your experience.
> I'm married to a husband with LD; our sex life changed right after he proposed, and it only worsened over time. Now, in addition to psychological issues, he has physiological/biological issues including ED that have made our sex life non-existent.
> My husband is doing every thing in his power to fix his problems* because he realizes our marriage is at stake; our physical relationship is very important to both of us.
> I only mention my story because you seem much more willing to work on your marriage than your husband...and sex problems rarely improve over time without help.
> I'm not judging--you just seem like a vibrant, lovely woman who deserves an equal partner in every aspect of a marriage.
> ~YG
> *My husband and I have been to therapy separately and together.


:iagree:

I am the one putting forth the most work. Every step of the way I have had to drag him.

Welcome to TAM. I did read your story.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
There's a classic Hitch**** movie called: Gaslight

In that movie, the husband attempts to make his wife crazy to get her money. 

He adjusts the brightness of the lights in the house (among other things) and then when his wife comments on the change in illumination he tells her he has no idea what she's talking about - and acts like she's crazy. 

This theme - resonated so strongly with the viewers that a popular term came into being: gaslighting 

Deliberately Pretending that reality is different than it is - in an attempt to gain an advantage. 

Realizing that you are equally committed to your marriage and your sanity, you ought take the advice below to heart. It offers the following benefits:
- Consumes very little emotional energy
- Is very quick 
- Is remarkably effective at discouraging your partner from gas lighting you in the future

A couple disclaimers: This isn't conflict. It's combat. Done properly it will temporarily destabilize any normal partner. 

It should only be used in cases where your SO is being toxic. And you shouldn't do this unless you have mostly kept your calm. 

The best thing to do when being gas lighted:

Stage (1) 
Is to laugh. Hard. 

Then do a quick assessment. If you've gotten your message across stop here. Proceed as if your SO hadn't said anything crazy. 

If you haven't gotten your message across - it's on to Stage (2).

Stage (2)
This is where you seamlessly transition into a low affect but unmistakably hostile facial expression. 

Keep it long enough so there is no doubt what you are conveying. 

Stage (3) (a)
When asked WTF, by your partner, you drop the hostility and just say - in a neutral tone: let's address this situation later. 

Stage (3) (b) 
When asked WTF, by your partner, you drop the hostility and just act confused. Like you have no idea what they are talking about. Stay confused - while they get spun up. And then double down with an irritated response: 

What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously, your acting crazy. I'm a bit worried about you. 

---------
Deep sigh. This is the reverse gas light. The wrap up to it goes like this. In a subsequent conversation you calmly explain the concept of gas lighting. And then inquire as to how they felt about their recent experience with you. Get them to talk about how they felt. And then briefly touch on the catalyst event. 

Don't justify. Don't belabor. 

Simply say: That is exactly how I felt when you said you never reject me. And for the same reasons. 

Gas lighting is cruel, it's abusive. It's the pinnacle of selfishness. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> So last night he said something about how he never turns me down, he said all I have to do is ask.
> 
> So I confronted him on rejecting on Monday. He said he didn't know that I wanted to have sex... Even though I said, and I quote, "Want to go get naked?" And he said no. So I told him there was no way he could have misinterpreted that, especially since I was fondling him and kissing his penis. :scratchhead:
> 
> He claims that he thought I was just being frisky because I always do that. And I explained that when I do that I want sex. I mean come on. If I go shower and get naked and am touching him, does he really think I'm just kidding around. I call bull crap.
> 
> He said I have to ask him straight if he wants to have sex, and he will. He says he NEVER rejects me. But I used to always do that, and he always said no, and that hurts worse than if I hint around and he just brushes me off. So I explained to him that I don't feel safe asking anymore because he usually rejects me.
> 
> He gave me one of the, "Some people don't like having sex everyday." And I reminded him that I don't ask everyday, or very often at all.
> 
> Then he changed his tune and said that rejection is a part of life, and that I am going to get told no sometimes, and that I just need to get over it.
> 
> By now I just wanted to slug him. lol. So I went to take a nap and of course he followed me and apologized, and said he wanted me to feel safe asking, and that he wanted to make it up to me. etc.
> 
> Sigh. I am tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again, and having to spell everything out for him.
> 
> Eventually he talked me into sex, and I'm glad. It was pretty great. Then we went and had a bonfire and played board games with friends.
> 
> One of our friends has a new girlfriend and they are very touchy in public. I'm hoping it rubs off on my husband.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> There's a classic Hitch**** movie called: Gaslight
> 
> 
> 
> In that movie, the husband attempts to make his wife crazy to get her money.
> .



Hmmm. There is a thought 

The key word is communication - do not rely on feelings to carry the message.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John,
I don't understand your post. Could you explain what it is you are suggesting? 





john117 said:


> Hmmm. There is a thought
> 
> The key word is communication - do not rely on feelings to carry the message.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
There is a level of cruelty here that disturbs. 

He loves you - yes I believe this. And I also believe he is selfish enough to seriously fvck your head up over time. 

You know M2 is LD - but - she has been so brutally honest about sex that we truly have a happy compromise. 

Your H is a big fat liar, and in the covering up his lies he is one cruel SOB. 

He's punishng you because he's angry about your 3/week compromise. He's unwilling to man up and define a compromise he'd be happy with because he knows you might walk. 

He does love you. He just loves himself a lot more. 


QUOTE=TheCuriousWife;9803458]So last night he said something about how he never turns me down, he said all I have to do is ask. 

So I confronted him on rejecting on Monday. He said he didn't know that I wanted to have sex... Even though I said, and I quote, "Want to go get naked?" And he said no. So I told him there was no way he could have misinterpreted that, especially since I was fondling him and kissing his penis. :scratchhead:

He claims that he thought I was just being frisky because I always do that. And I explained that when I do that I want sex. I mean come on. If I go shower and get naked and am touching him, does he really think I'm just kidding around. I call bull crap.

He said I have to ask him straight if he wants to have sex, and he will. He says he NEVER rejects me. But I used to always do that, and he always said no, and that hurts worse than if I hint around and he just brushes me off. So I explained to him that I don't feel safe asking anymore because he usually rejects me. 

He gave me one of the, "Some people don't like having sex everyday." And I reminded him that I don't ask everyday, or very often at all. 

Then he changed his tune and said that rejection is a part of life, and that I am going to get told no sometimes, and that I just need to get over it. 

By now I just wanted to slug him. lol. So I went to take a nap and of course he followed me and apologized, and said he wanted me to feel safe asking, and that he wanted to make it up to me. etc.

Sigh. I am tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again, and having to spell everything out for him. 

Eventually he talked me into sex, and I'm glad. It was pretty great. Then we went and had a bonfire and played board games with friends. 

One of our friends has a new girlfriend and they are very touchy in public. I'm hoping it rubs off on my husband. [/QUOTE]


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> So last night he said something about how he never turns me down, he said all I have to do is ask.
> 
> So I confronted him on rejecting on Monday. He said he didn't know that I wanted to have sex... Even though I said, and I quote, "Want to go get naked?" And he said no. So I told him there was no way he could have misinterpreted that, especially since I was fondling him and kissing his penis. :scratchhead:
> 
> He claims that he thought I was just being frisky because I always do that. And I explained that when I do that I want sex. I mean come on. If I go shower and get naked and am touching him, does he really think I'm just kidding around. I call bull crap.
> 
> He said I have to ask him straight if he wants to have sex, and he will. He says he NEVER rejects me. But I used to always do that, and he always said no, and that hurts worse than if I hint around and he just brushes me off. So I explained to him that I don't feel safe asking anymore because he usually rejects me.
> 
> He gave me one of the, "Some people don't like having sex everyday." And I reminded him that I don't ask everyday, or very often at all.
> 
> Then he changed his tune and said that rejection is a part of life, and that I am going to get told no sometimes, and that I just need to get over it.
> 
> By now I just wanted to slug him. lol. So I went to take a nap and of course he followed me and apologized, and said he wanted me to feel safe asking, and that he wanted to make it up to me. etc.
> 
> Sigh. I am tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again, and having to spell everything out for him.
> 
> Eventually he talked me into sex, and I'm glad. It was pretty great. Then we went and had a bonfire and played board games with friends.
> 
> One of our friends has a new girlfriend and they are very touchy in public. I'm hoping it rubs off on my husband.


It simply does not make one feel as desired when one has to resort to asking directly "may I please have sex." What feels better is when you decide you want sex, slip into something that he should notice, and get grabbed and sucked into having sex.

Well, it is good to hear that you are bold enough to talk to him about it. And I like that in you. Lots of work. Sticking yourself out there. A bit scarry at times to i would think. But you do confront him. Even if he denies you asked for sex, you still know the real story. And you called him on it instead of giving up. Good work.

Sorry, but I don't think that seeing the other couple being touchy in public is going to make him Change any. But you can still tell him that you would like to have some of that sort of attention too.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> He does love you. He just loves himself a lot more.


QFT.

TCW, I have said several times this is about a lack of respect in your marriage. Your H cannot be as oblivious as the conversation from the other night indicated. That is passive-aggressive bullspit.

Based on everything you write, I do not think your husband respects you - at least, not enough to take your wants and desires seriously.

And I am sorry, because I really don't know what to tell you to do about it.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> He does love you. He just loves himself a lot more.


Consider his family of origin. Based on your posts, CW, it was all about him. He is just continuing in that tradition.

Also consider how much of this is you being cast in the role of a mother. You are there to take care of him. Add to it that mom is not a sexual being. 

So his default assumption is that you are to focus on him, and to the extent he thinks about you, sex is not in the picture.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He does try to flip is around often and pretend like he "didn't know."

But once I confront him, and push the issue then he starts back peddling and says he is sorry. So obviously he "knows" more than he says he does.

He was fully aware I wanted sex the other day. It is really stupid of him to pretend later that he wasn't rejecting me when he said no. 

At least I know better now. I can call him out on it. Bringing it to his attention, and telling him how it made me feel at least makes it so he can't just hide the fact that he DOES reject me. It is harder for him to deny it when I push the facts in his face. He has to see that his actions are hurtful.

If I just blow it off and let it slide he will continue thinking in his twisted mind that our sex life is perfect and satisfying and that he never rejects me. Which just isn't the case in the "real world."


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He does try to flip is around often and pretend like he "didn't know."
> 
> But once I confront him, and push the issue then he starts back peddling and says he is sorry. So obviously he "knows" more than he says he does.


My six year old does this too.

Would he read No More Mr. Nice Guy? Because I see some unhealthy traits in him that this book could help him with.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> It simply does not make one feel as desired when one has to resort to asking directly "may I please have sex." What feels better is when you decide you want sex, slip into something that he should notice, and get grabbed and sucked into having sex.


I feel like I shouldn't have to ask! Asking makes me feel like a kid asking for permission from their parents. Why does he get the final say? It makes me crazy. 

I've told him in the past that he feels like the gatekeeper. He gets to pick who gets in and when. Marriage shouldn't be that way. I should be able to get horny, and express myself. I should be able to flirt and seduce him. But instead I'm not suppose to show any feelings. I am just suppose to ask him if I may please have sex with him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> My six year old does this too.
> 
> Would he read No More Mr. Nice Guy? Because I see some unhealthy traits in him that this book could help him with.


:lol:

That is EXACTLY how it is. It is like a little kid caught stealing a cookie. The cookie can still be in their hand but they will claim they didn't do it or didn't know. But if you push them enough then suddenly they "remember" doing it and they will start saying how sorry they are.



I don't think he would read it. He still hasn't finished the sex starved marriage, and now refuses to keep reading it.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't think he would read it. He still hasn't finished the sex starved marriage, and now refuses to keep reading it.


Is that because the book is about sex, or because you suggested it, or because it is a book?

NMMNG has little to do with sex. Rather, it is about him becoming the man that he wants to be.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I feel like I shouldn't have to ask! Asking makes me feel like a kid asking for permission from their parents. Why does he get the final say? It makes me crazy.
> 
> I've told him in the past that he feels like the gatekeeper. He gets to pick who gets in and when. Marriage shouldn't be that way. I should be able to get horny, and express myself. I should be able to flirt and seduce him. But instead I'm not suppose to show any feelings. I am just suppose to ask him if I may please have sex with him.


No, after all the time you two have known each other he should know when you are aggressively initiating. You should not have to ask for permission like a little kid asking for permission to play video games.

Too many rules imposed by him. You should not be denied the ability to show your feelings. He can't take away your feelings, but his rules certainly prevents you form being able to show them. Not good.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Is that because the book is about sex, or because you suggested it, or because it is a book?
> 
> NMMNG has little to do with sex. Rather, it is about him becoming the man that he wants to be.


I agree, "No more Mr. Nice Guy" is less about sex, and more about other behaviors such as having hidden agendas when being nice to somebody. It is a good read, and it is not a huge book. I believe it is also available for free off the internet.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I agree, "No more Mr. Nice Guy" is less about sex, and more about other behaviors such as having hidden agendas when being nice to somebody. It is a good read, and it is not a huge book. I believe it is also available for free off the internet.


Some other things are about being true and honest with yourself and others, as well as learning to accept that everyone won't be happy with you all the time. Although not using these terms, I think it addresses healthy selfishness.

I see that in CW's husband - he won't be honest because he needs to be liked.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I agree, "No more Mr. Nice Guy" is less about sex, and more about other behaviors such as having hidden agendas when being nice to somebody. It is a good read, and it is not a huge book. I believe it is also available for free off the internet.



Humans are goal seeking by nature and agendas - goals - are an integral part of who we are. 

NMMNG in my view seems to think that replacing one agenda with a slightly different agenda is what's needed. 

Nice in theory, but I have my concerns in practice....


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Is that because the book is about sex, or because you suggested it, or because it is a book?
> 
> NMMNG has little to do with sex. Rather, it is about him becoming the man that he wants to be.


All of the above. But mostly because he just doesn't like to read.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well it's my birthday today. He has promised me good sex tonight and tomorrow, but I am trying not to get my hopes up. I asked him to sleep naked last night and he wouldn't.  So he obviously isn't going to make too much of an effort. 

It is hard to get excited and look forward to it when your trying not to set yourself up for hurt. I'm an either all or nothing kind of person. 

I had a horrible week, and I am struggling with being in a bad mood. I need to do something relaxing and get my mind off things. I hope I can enjoy my birthday.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Happy birthday curious!!!! Hope you get everything you want for your birthday!!


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Happy Birthday!!!!

Hope you get some!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Is that because the book is about sex, or because you suggested it, or because it is a book?
> 
> NMMNG has little to do with sex. Rather, it is about him becoming the man that he wants to be.


It's because it hit too close to home.

Curious, I have been staying away from your thread because it triggers me. Although our situations are very different. I've done some thinking and this is what I came up with.

Like me, you are a very sexual person, you are expressive and loving and nurturing.

Like me, you feel rejection from your husband and it hurts.

Like me, the rejection you feel has nothing to do with you. IOW, the rejection isn't a result of something you did or failed to do. And yet the go to reaction is to wonder what you could do better to get better results.

Like me, you've come to see some patterns that indicate it is your husband's behavior that needs to change and like me you wonder what you can do to help prompt this behavior change in him.

Like me, working on your own issues (your need to please, belief in your worthiness, and asserting your boundaries) became the barometer in how much you could rightfully expect from your H.

Finally, like me, you are trying to come to terms with what is likely to change and is that enough.

UNLIKE me, you are young and have no children.

I tell you, I do love my husband and he is a good man and he has come so far in the last year. But I am continually troubled by his half assed attempts and resent having to remind, explain, teach, explain, remind...because none of this comes naturally to him and he is only doing it so I won't be mad at him. He is not doing it because he believes it to be the right thing, or that he wants to be a more loving and expressive husband, or that he isn't content with the way things are or that he sees anything wrong with the way he has always been.

UNLIKE me, your attraction to your husband remains strong and that is the only thing keeping you two together.

Here is what I want you to contemplate as you do your best to adjust your expectations for a sexy happy birthday.

Your attraction to your husband will slowly fade away as you tamp down your needs for emotional connection through sexual fulfillment. The issue in your marriage will always be there because he isn't looking in the mirror at all. He is avoiding your ire by sort of meeting you half way and this will be the pattern.

No one really changes until they've banged their head on the bottom. No one really alters how they do things or how they see themselves unless circumstances allow for nothing else. Unless he comes to a point where being the way he is is more painful than being something else, he will always be the way he is. Selfish, cold and immature.

Not now, but sometime soon I hope you pack a bag and leave. Maybe just for the weekend, or maybe a month. But the next time things come to a head, pack a bag and go. Tell him you can't be married to someone who easily and willingly hurts the one they love by withholding that love. Tell him you'll come back if/when he figures out why he does it and how to not do it.

This will do one of two things.

1. Create the conditions in which it is more painful to stay the way he is than to change. Thus he will begin the change, for real this time.

Or

2. Demonstrate to you very clearly that he will not ever ever change. And it's better to know this now, than 20-30 years from now. Because if you know this, deep down inside KNOW that he won't change no matter what you do or don't do and want to stay with him anyway...well it's your funeral.

I'm sorry to be such a downer on your birthday. I hadn't planned to post this at all. But when I saw your post about trying not to get your hopes up that your husband might actually give you what you have clearly and repeatedly asked for, it just broke my heart.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> *No one really changes until they've banged their head on the bottom*. No one really alters how they do things or how they see themselves unless circumstances allow for nothing else. Unless he comes to a point where being the way he is is more painful than being something else, he will always be the way he is. Selfish, cold and immature.


Well said.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> _Every single thing Anon Pink just posted above._


TCW, read this, digest it some, then come back and read it again. It might be the best piece of advice you have gotten on this thread, from someone who has been there.

Happy Birthday and hopefully, things go well today. If not ... consider the best present you can give yourself today or any other day: a chance at a fulfilled life.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks for the very thoughtful post Anon. *hugs*

We are very similar, and I have watched your struggles. 

You are completely right, and your post is spot on.

Eventually something is going to snap in my marriage. We can't continue this dance forever. I am confident I will be okay, no matter what the outcome turns out to be. I'm a strong person.

If the situation gets truly hopeless to me and I can't handle it anymore, I am willing to walk. But at this point I am okay. 

I'm sorry my thread is a trigger for you, I've missed seeing you around here.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

AP,
The post below is excellent. 

It's hard to know from the outside how much of this is 'can't', vs. 'won't'.





Anon Pink said:


> It's because it hit too close to home.
> 
> Curious, I have been staying away from your thread because it triggers me. Although our situations are very different. I've done some thinking and this is what I came up with.
> 
> Like me, you are a very sexual person, you are expressive and loving and nurturing.
> 
> Like me, you feel rejection from your husband and it hurts.
> 
> Like me, the rejection you feel has nothing to do with you. IOW, the rejection isn't a result of something you did or failed to do. And yet the go to reaction is to wonder what you could do better to get better results.
> 
> Like me, you've come to see some patterns that indicate it is your husband's behavior that needs to change and like me you wonder what you can do to help prompt this behavior change in him.
> 
> Like me, working on your own issues (your need to please, belief in your worthiness, and asserting your boundaries) became the barometer in how much you could rightfully expect from your H.
> 
> Finally, like me, you are trying to come to terms with what is likely to change and is that enough.
> 
> UNLIKE me, you are young and have no children.
> 
> I tell you, I do love my husband and he is a good man and he has come so far in the last year. But I am continually troubled by his half assed attempts and resent having to remind, explain, teach, explain, remind...because none of this comes naturally to him and he is only doing it so I won't be mad at him. He is not doing it because he believes it to be the right thing, or that he wants to be a more loving and expressive husband, or that he isn't content with the way things are or that he sees anything wrong with the way he has always been.
> 
> UNLIKE me, your attraction to your husband remains strong and that is the only thing keeping you two together.
> 
> Here is what I want you to contemplate as you do your best to adjust your expectations for a sexy happy birthday.
> 
> Your attraction to your husband will slowly fade away as you tamp down your needs for emotional connection through sexual fulfillment. The issue in your marriage will always be there because he isn't looking in the mirror at all. He is avoiding your ire by sort of meeting you half way and this will be the pattern.
> 
> No one really changes until they've banged their head on the bottom. No one really alters how they do things or how they see themselves unless circumstances allow for nothing else. Unless he comes to a point where being the way he is is more painful than being something else, he will always be the way he is. Selfish, cold and immature.
> 
> Not now, but sometime soon I hope you pack a bag and leave. Maybe just for the weekend, or maybe a month. But the next time things come to a head, pack a bag and go. Tell him you can't be married to someone who easily and willingly hurts the one they love by withholding that love. Tell him you'll come back if/when he figures out why he does it and how to not do it.
> 
> This will do one of two things.
> 
> 1. Create the conditions in which it is more painful to stay the way he is than to change. Thus he will begin the change, for real this time.
> 
> Or
> 
> 2. Demonstrate to you very clearly that he will not ever ever change. And it's better to know this now, than 20-30 years from now. Because if you know this, deep down inside KNOW that he won't change no matter what you do or don't do and want to stay with him anyway...well it's your funeral.
> 
> I'm sorry to be such a downer on your birthday. I hadn't planned to post this at all. But when I saw your post about trying not to get your hopes up that your husband might actually give you what you have clearly and repeatedly asked for, it just broke my heart.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I wish your thread didn't trigger me so much too! 

I left something out though.

The reason why I want you to bag a bag and go is because people simply don't change unless they have to. By waiting until you feel you've done everything you can possibly do before you pack that bag, you run two unfortunate risks.

1. By then, it won't matter if he changes or not. You're done. It's over. The fat lady exploded her aria and she is taking her applause. It is OVER. I don't think that is what you want to happen.

Or

2. It never happens. There is always some little glimmer of hope, some little spark, some sign of potential life that prevents you from being able to fully walk away. IOW, nothing will ever change and here you will be 20 years from now with a bunch of kids, a mortgage, and trying to walk at that point will be infinitely more complicated.

That's why I want you to do it soon. To plan to do it soon. To show your husband just how serious this is BEFORE it is too late. 

Packing a bag now is like a shot across the bow. It is the warning you deliver before war becomes inevitable.

Packing a bag now, when you still are attracted and in love, gives your marriage the best chance possible, and that is what I think you ultimately want.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> AP,
> The post below is excellent.
> 
> It's hard to know from the outside how much of this is 'can't', vs. 'won't'.


Thanks MEM. I wonder if there is a significant difference between can't or won't? Does it ultimately matter what the difference is?

Several people have suggested my husband might have Aspergers. I am familiar with Aspergers and I don't see it in him. But it would be good to know for sure. Because if he does have Aspergers, then I know there is little hope in getting from him what I want and need and I will have to decide if the occasional glimmers are enough. I don't think they are and I would once again begin the process of shutting myself off and gearing up for a life alone. There is comfort in setting out firmly on a course of action.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think most of us who are older and went through this type of situation wish we had taken action sooner. Whether that was leaving, accepting it, or whatever. And none of us want Curious or anyone else to spend years trying to get what she needs when there's a thousand other people out there that would gladly give it to her. 

There's a lot of years ahead of you, Curious, but they will be behind you before you know it.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The key thing to remember is absolutely don't bring children into the relationship as it exists. Children are wonderful but they often drive parents apart rather than bringing them together -- especially when one of the parents is LD and suddenly has an excellent excuse not to focus on sex because of the time and energy children require. You don't want that life, believe me, but it's what you will get if you start having children without a resolution to your situation. 

Your husband is selfish and immature. He may grow up or he may not. But you really don't want to be trying to parent him and your children too. His parents blew it and you are seeing the result. It's totally on him to see the need to change and to do it. Permanently, not temporarily. The question is: will he.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

AP,
Does your H realize how close you are to walking?





Anon Pink said:


> Thanks MEM. I wonder if there is a significant difference between can't or won't? Does it ultimately matter what the difference is?
> 
> Several people have suggested my husband might have Aspergers. I am familiar with Aspergers and I don't see it in him. But it would be good to know for sure. Because if he does have Aspergers, then I know there is little hope in getting from him what I want and need and I will have to decide if the occasional glimmers are enough. I don't think they are and I would once again begin the process of shutting myself off and gearing up for a life alone. There is comfort in setting out firmly on a course of action.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He's already positioning to hide behind the kids to avoid having sex. 





Openminded said:


> The key thing to remember is absolutely don't bring children into the relationship as it exists. Children are wonderful but they often drive parents apart rather than bringing them together -- especially when one of the parents is LD and suddenly has an excellent excuse not to focus on sex because of the time and energy children require. You don't want that life, believe me, but it's what you will get if you start having children without a resolution to your situation.
> 
> Your husband is selfish and immature. He may grow up or he may not. But you really don't want to be trying to parent him and your children too. His parents blew it and you are seeing the result. It's totally on him to see the need to change and to do it. Permanently, not temporarily. The question is: will he.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> He's already positioning to hide behind the kids to avoid having sex.


I agree. And I think he will start with serious pressure to have the first child soon -- if he hasn't begun that already.


----------



## last worthless evening

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Excellent post AP! The one other thing is that the LD partner has all of the power in the relationship. You will spend your life walking on egg shells so as not to upset him, because if you do, then he will withhold sex and worse, affection. You will accept ever lowering compromises, because if you don't, you will get even less than the newly lowered compromise - or nothing at all. And the one thing that is fairly constant across all human interactions and relationships - whether in an intimate relationship, work setting, or international relations between countries - is that almost no one ever gives up their power unless they have no choice and are forced to. In most instances, the only leverage that the HD partner has is the threat or actual occurrence of leaving. The longer you are in the relationship, and especially once children enter the picture, that option becomes much less tenable. So, as long as your hubby has the power, and knows that he does (believe me, whether consciously or unconsciously, he knows) he is not going to change. I can't tell you if you follow AP's advice and pack, that in the end, he will make a real, lasting, change to get you back - I just don't know. But at least you can change the power dynamic, without which, I do not ever see a more than temporary change occurring. The risk however, is that if you leave, it may be over for good.The question for you is - are you willing to live as you are now (and maybe worse) forever, and if not, is the risk of leaving and having it be over - maybe to actually find the "right" person, who can give you the love, affection, respect and sex that you deserve? It makes me so sad to see you, who has so much to offer, that so many men would love to accept, and who would desire you, as you (rightly) so much want and deserve.
Best of luck and I hope that your birthday turns out exactly as you want!


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Thanks MEM. I wonder if there is a significant difference between can't or won't? Does it ultimately matter what the difference is?



Of course it does. Can't is fixable with the right approach. Won't is not easily fixable especially if you have to undo decades of preconditioning.

In can't you have to overcome some condition or another. In won't you have that plus unwillingness to change.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> AP,
> Does your H realize how close you are to walking?


I'm not that close. Certainly not anywhere as close as I was last year this time. Another member who is quite smart but tends to rely on obscurely revealed insights suggested I keep track and watch the trend. While I have stopped putting check marks or minus marks in my calendar, the trend suggests things are better than they sometimes feel.

Wow! speak of the devil... 



john117 said:


> Of course it does. Can't is fixable with the right approach. Won't is not easily fixable especially if you have to undo decades of preconditioning.
> 
> In can't you have to overcome some condition or another. In won't you have that plus unwillingness to change.


And I thought the water I was looking at was settling and the micro particles sinking so I could see clearer. Great, back to mud!


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

I could use some insight as we speak... My demo is on Monday and let's just say T2fio has a better chance of getting lucky than my demo to work 

Seriously, tho, I think I would rather deal with can't vs won't. That's really all there is to it. Even if it really can't be fixed with intervention you know you tried. Won't does not offer this angle.

Here's my lab as we speak...

View attachment 27626


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John,
Sometimes when doing a demo of a software prototype, it was so fragile that unless we followed an exact sequence of mouse clicks, we knew there was a good chance of a system crash. Not an error message - a total - need to reboot - crash. 

So the best demo person was someone who could finesse requests and stick with the safe path. And then distract the customer at the end sufficiently to avoid being pressured to go back and blowing up 
The system......




john117 said:


> I could use some insight as we speak... My demo is on Monday and let's just say T2fio has a better chance of getting lucky than my demo to work
> 
> Seriously, tho, I think I would rather deal with can't vs won't. That's really all there is to it. Even if it really can't be fixed with intervention you know you tried. Won't does not offer this angle.
> 
> Here's my lab as we speak...
> 
> View attachment 27626


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Some people who are married and have never been divorced seem to be under a delusional spell which goes something like "I don't have to bother listening to my spouse, I'm fine with ME just how I am and they should just accept me just how I am, hmph!"

Eventually this becomes "oh sh*t, perhaps I should have realized that a marriage requires WORK by both spouses and if I wanted to stay married, I should have been more willing to work on myself and been open to change".

This is what every divorced person knows, if they actually learned anything by the hard lessons of divorce.

Demanding that you are allowed to stay the same, never grow or change, and never accept influence from your spouse is the misguided yet dangerous thought that so many first time marrieds have. Marriage cannot support two individuals who are only interested in "never being asked to change".


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Some people who are married and have never been divorced seem to be under a delusional spell which goes something like "I don't have to bother listening to my spouse, I'm fine with ME just how I am and they should just accept me just how I am, hmph!"
> 
> Eventually this becomes "oh sh*t, perhaps I should have realized that a marriage requires WORK by both spouses and if I wanted to stay married, I should have been more willing to work on myself and been open to change".
> 
> This is what every divorced person knows, if they actually learned anything by the hard lessons of divorce.
> 
> Demanding that you are allowed to stay the same, never grow or change, and never accept influence from your spouse is the misguided yet dangerous thought that so many first time marrieds have. Marriage cannot support two individuals who are only interested in "never being asked to change".


Absolutely correct.

Will be having this conversation soon. Big part tomorrow to get through first.


----------



## Eagle3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John117, you strike me as someone that watches Back to the Future and dissects the problems with the flux capacitor. 

:lol:


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



Eagle3 said:


> John117, you strike me as someone that watches Back to the Future and dissects the problems with the flux capacitor.



Except this time the flux capacitors refuse to boot standalone... They boot and work fine connected to the lab instrumentation but reset continuously if not. And, like a bad marriage, the culprit is not always obvious.

I have spent the last couple years thinking about the can't versus won't. I call them "stupid" and "evil" respectively. I did not make the response to Anon lightly. 

Think of nearly every can't problem. ED. Stress. Vanilla psych issues. Upbringing. Medical issues. Weight. Genuine lack of desire. The past. The lab checklist goes on and on. Those can at least be tackled with medicine, therapy, exercise, you name it. If you point those out the can't person likely will consider that there may be a solution and will give it a try.

The won't person will have the exact same list except like my demo unit it won't necessarily tell you why he or she won't. Like my board you will try every trick in the book and then some, and that's just to get past the won't stage. With some bad luck they will continue to fight you all the way.

But... Is it really only can't or only won't, or a mix of the two? The can't person should be bright enough to figure out that can't needs to be fixed because can't, like the red FAULT light on my board is not typical. You expect a 20something to always be in the mood... He will have his peer group to refer to. How typical is his desire? At that point how much won't is there if he does not go "self, this ain't good. I oughta be feeling X and I'm feeling 1/X.... Oughta be going Y and I'm doing 1/Y. Check Engine Light time".


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Some people who are married and have never been divorced seem to be under a delusional spell which goes something like "I don't have to bother listening to my spouse, I'm fine with ME just how I am and they should just accept me just how I am, hmph!"
> 
> Eventually this becomes "oh sh*t, perhaps I should have realized that a marriage requires WORK by both spouses and if I wanted to stay married, I should have been more willing to work on myself and been open to change".
> 
> This is what every divorced person knows, if they actually learned anything by the hard lessons of divorce.
> 
> Demanding that you are allowed to stay the same, never grow or change, and never accept influence from your spouse is the misguided yet dangerous thought that so many first time marrieds have. Marriage cannot support two individuals who are only interested in "never being asked to change".


OMG, that is so true. I can't tell you how many "that is just the way I am. I can't chage" responses I got. 

Oh, how some people just believe that marriage does not need some work. And that if it does they are not the one to do it.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,
This is a great post. 

M2 must have said this a dozen times to me during the worst two years of our marriage: 
'This is just how I am, I've always been this way'

My perception of M2 was that she was controlling and aggressive and jealous. And that her expression of those traits was through anger. 

Our MC gently persuaded me that M2's core trigger was fear. And she simply expressed her fear as anger. 

So - instead of getting angry at M2 for being angry at me about:
- friends 
- hobbies
- etc....

I completely switched gears. I responded to her (fear) anger with reassurance. 

Lately M2 has been volunteering this comment on a regular basis: I'm making an effort not to be so controlling. 

And my response: your effort is noticeable, and greatly appreciated - thank you






Faithful Wife said:


> Some people who are married and have never been divorced seem to be under a delusional spell which goes something like "I don't have to bother listening to my spouse, I'm fine with ME just how I am and they should just accept me just how I am, hmph!"
> 
> Eventually this becomes "oh sh*t, perhaps I should have realized that a marriage requires WORK by both spouses and if I wanted to stay married, I should have been more willing to work on myself and been open to change".
> 
> This is what every divorced person knows, if they actually learned anything by the hard lessons of divorce.
> 
> Demanding that you are allowed to stay the same, never grow or change, and never accept influence from your spouse is the misguided yet dangerous thought that so many first time marrieds have. Marriage cannot support two individuals who are only interested in "never being asked to change".


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

One last comment - even in the case where change is achievable (regardless of can't vs won't implementation details) one will weight the extent of change against potential benefits of making the change and the risk of not making it.

For Mr. Curious, he perceives no benefit from more frequent sex (good-enough-itis) and likely grave risk if it increases (loss of control in general and increasing frequency counter to good-enough-itis).

This risk-reward profile mismatch is at the heart of it all, and won't is driven by it, whereas can't is driven by the underlaying psychophysiological reasons...

In other words, to address won't you have to address what's in it for me and good-enough-itis.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> One last comment - even in the case where change is achievable (regardless of can't vs won't implementation details) one will weight the extent of change against potential benefits of making the change and the risk of not making it.
> 
> For Mr. Curious, he perceives no benefit from more frequent sex (good-enough-itis) and likely grave risk if it increases (loss of control in general and increasing frequency counter to good-enough-itis).
> 
> This risk-reward profile mismatch is at the heart of it all, and won't is driven by it, whereas can't is driven by the underlaying psychophysiological reasons...
> 
> In other words, to address won't you have to address what's in it for me and good-enough-itis.


But this problem only occurs because Curious is not ready to leave yet, so Mr. Curious actually does NOT perceive any down side to just stubbornly remaining how he is and refusing to change. He is not clued in to the real facts here, yet.

This is why Anon was urging Curious not to wait until "later" to impress upon Mr. Curious how important these issues are.

It basically boils down to: be willing to change and grow OR accept an *inevitable* divorce.

And actually, all married people are under that same dynamic...most don't know it...which is why most marriages end in divorce.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> But this problem only occurs because Curious is not ready to leave yet, so Mr. Curious actually does NOT perceive any down side to just stubbornly remaining how he is and refusing to change. He is not clued in to the real facts here, yet.
> 
> This is why Anon was urging Curious not to wait until "later" to impress upon Mr. Curious how important these issues are.
> 
> It basically boils down to: be willing to change and grow OR accept an *inevitable* divorce.
> 
> And actually, all married people are under that same dynamic...most don't know it...which is why most marriages end in divorce.



Exactly!


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

On the other hand what kind of a relationship one is to sustain if one has to play the nuclear option at year 3?

At some point one cuts their losses and walks regardless.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wow, lots of activity on this thread. 

Birthday had it's ups and downs. We did have sex on my birthday, and then once on Saturday. So I got more than I expected. Of course it was still lower than the amount he promised. But what's new? 

On my birthday I took a bubble bath because it had been a pretty crappy week, and I was not in the mood for sex at all. Well I was still in when he got home and he stripped down right there and jumped in with me.  In our tiny tub, we were practically squishing each other, but it was fun. 

On Saturday I mentioned sex, and he actually said yes and stopped what he was doing right there, and we went at it. No, "how about later" or "maybe after lunch" etc. So that was surprising. I actually said, "really?" 

Overall I'd say things are going better. My libido has simmered down. In fact I'm just sort of take it or leave it, I don't really care right now. I don't feel like I need him 24/7 like I used to. 

I've hung out with friends, I've started reading again, spent a lot of time outdoors. I'm having fun doing what I want, instead of sitting around waiting for him to have sex with me, and thinking about the sex I'm not having.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's hard to stay excited about someone that "will" have sex with you but doesn't really "desire" to have sex with you. Indifference settles in.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Indifference is a good survival mechanism...


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> AP,
> The post below is excellent.
> 
> It's hard to know from the outside how much of this is 'can't', vs. 'won't'.


Can't vs won't also implies intentions. Someone who can't but tries loves you not just themselves, someone who won't try is more concerned with themselves. LOVE is the difference.



Anon Pink said:


> Packing a bag now, when you still are attracted and in love, gives your marriage the best chance possible, and that is what I think you ultimately want.


I like the idea of fighting for the marriage while you still care. Whatever you decide to do now is the time to fight for it.



john117 said:


> Of course it does. Can't is fixable with the right approach. Won't is not easily fixable especially if you have to undo decades of preconditioning.
> 
> In can't you have to overcome some condition or another. In won't you have that plus unwillingness to change.


Yep unwillingness to change is always gonna be the worst, and it feels the worst.



CharlieParker said:


> Impress is the key word to try to avoid walk away spouse syndrome.
> 
> That kind of communication is hard, with the key being one has to really mean it and believe in the inevitableness. I and my wife have both had to say it, once each. Each time the other got the message.


Impress is a good way to put it. Impressing on them that this is not just a preference but an absolute need. 

Acceptance and resignation are not the same thing. I don't like resignation but acceptance can be a giving of yourself. Resignation includes resentment, acceptance doesn't. Does that make any sense? From my perspective if you can truly accept things, then do it. But if there will be resentment, anger, etc keep fighting.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Wow, lots of activity on this thread.
> 
> Birthday had it's ups and downs. We did have sex on my birthday, and then once on Saturday. So I got more than I expected. Of course it was still lower than the amount he promised. But what's new?
> 
> On my birthday I took a bubble bath because it had been a pretty crappy week, and I was not in the mood for sex at all. Well I was still in when he got home and he stripped down right there and jumped in with me.  In our tiny tub, we were practically squishing each other, but it was fun.
> 
> On Saturday I mentioned sex, and he actually said yes and stopped what he was doing right there, and we went at it. No, "how about later" or "maybe after lunch" etc. So that was surprising. I actually said, "really?"
> 
> Overall I'd say things are going better. My libido has simmered down. In fact I'm just sort of take it or leave it, I don't really care right now. I don't feel like I need him 24/7 like I used to.
> 
> I've hung out with friends, I've started reading again, spent a lot of time outdoors. I'm having fun doing what I want, instead of sitting around waiting for him to have sex with me, and thinking about the sex I'm not having.


Curious, you should feel good about the progress you have achieved in your marriage and in yourself by now. Do you see what has happened? From my perspective, and this last post it seems that a lot has been accomplished.

I would have thought a year ago you would have taken a bubble bath alone while he played video games. And when you mentioned sex a year ago he would have said "after dinner" and then "too tird now" and such and such.

Seems like you are much more desired and have more control over your sex life. And that has eased the pressure off your constant thoughts. Giving you a life outside of sexual desire all the time.

Anyhow, do you feel more in control? More like you don't have to beg?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> It's hard to stay excited about someone that "will" have sex with you but doesn't really "desire" to have sex with you. Indifference settles in.





john117 said:


> Indifference is a good survival mechanism...


:iagree:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Anyhow, do you feel more in control? More like you don't have to beg?


Thanks. I think a lot has improved. Mostly changes I made myself, that changed my perspective, and how I reacted.

I don't know that I feel more control in my sex life. But I feel more control in myself. I don't feel like I have to beg anymore. Because I don't depend on him. I'm not as desperate and needy for his affection as I used to be. If he tells me no, well then screw him he's missing out. It still hurts and bothers me occasionally, but mostly it just frustrates or disappoints me now. It doesn't make me wonder about my self worth, or cry myself to sleep. 

Of course I still want more sex, and I still miss sex when he turns me down. But it's... different. I've gotten more choosy, and I can say no.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He is slowly getting out of his box. 

Yesterday he initiated sex, before tv! He didn't leave me hanging, or make me wait until it was late and he was falling asleep. It was fun, great sex.  Although I have to say it was a little short. I was having such a good time, I didn't want it to be over.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious, you should feel good about the progress you have achieved in your marriage and in yourself by now. Do you see what has happened? From my perspective, and this last post it seems that a lot has been accomplished.
> 
> I would have thought a year ago you would have taken a bubble bath alone while he played video games. And when you mentioned sex a year ago he would have said "after dinner" and then "too tired now" and such and such.
> 
> Seems like you are much more desired and have more control over your sex life. And that has eased the pressure off your constant thoughts. Giving you a life outside of sexual desire all the time.
> 
> Anyhow, do you feel more in control? More like you don't have to beg?


I agree that some of the pressure being taken off may be you are getting some good stuff and you know if you don't you will take care of the horny part.

Sometimes reading old journals can bring back the pain all over again but it also can help us see how much we've grown, how much things have changed.



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is slowly getting out of his box.
> 
> Yesterday he initiated sex, before tv! He didn't leave me hanging, or make me wait until it was late and he was falling asleep. It was fun, great sex.  Although I have to say it was a little short. I was having such a good time, I didn't want it to be over.


:smthumbup:


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks. I think a lot has improved. Mostly changes I made myself, that changed my perspective, and how I reacted.
> 
> I don't know that I feel more control in my sex life. But I feel more control in myself. I don't feel like I have to beg anymore. Because I don't depend on him. I'm not as desperate and needy for his affection as I used to be. If he tells me no, well then screw him he's missing out. It still hurts and bothers me occasionally, but mostly it just frustrates or disappoints me now. It doesn't make me wonder about my self worth, or cry myself to sleep.
> 
> Of course I still want more sex, and I still miss sex when he turns me down. But it's... different. I've gotten more choosy, and I can say no.


Sounds like your sex drive is tapering off to match your expectations, so my guess it's due to emotional issues. If your husband woke up one day and a switch flipped inside him and he wanted sex 1 to 3 times a day, do you think your libido would jump to those levels rather quickly?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sounds like your sex drive is tapering off to match your expectations, so my guess it's due to emotional issues. If your husband woke up one day and a switch flipped inside him and he wanted sex 1 to 3 times a day, do you think your libido would jump to those levels rather quickly?


Of course. If it was sincere and he actually tried to get me aroused.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sounds like your sex drive is tapering off to match your expectations, so my guess it's due to emotional issues. If your husband woke up one day and a switch flipped inside him and he wanted sex 1 to 3 times a day, do you think your libido would jump to those levels rather quickly?


In my situation, my libido hasn't waned. I think of it more as a a wall I put up between my libido and my wife. That's the only way to keep the frustration levels down. I just handle my own urges first because waiting for my wife might mean waiting days, weeks, or months.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*bangs head on table* 

I know I just said I'm better at controlling myself, but today all I can think about is sex. I can't help it, my hormones are high this week.

Trying to decide if I should try to push my luck and ask for sex today and tomorrow. Trying to decide if I should send husband flirty texts. Talk me out of this please.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *bangs head on table*
> 
> I know I just said I'm better at controlling myself, but today all I can think about is sex. I can't help it, my hormones are high this week.
> 
> Trying to decide if I should try to push my luck and ask for sex today and tomorrow. Trying to decide if I should send husband flirty texts. Talk me out of this please.


I'm sorry, but there's really nothing I can do to help you aside from empathize regarding desires. You have an unusually high sex drive. I'm not finding fault nor criticizing at all, because I do to. If I could, I'd want to have sex with my wife 1 - 3 times a day, everyday. She would never go for that so we are in the 3 - 5 times a week department when it comes to frequency. 

I'd hate to see you or anyone ever feel as if they need to figure out ways to curb libido. I think of it as a blessing, and the day you lose it is a terrible day indeed. Best things to do are to try to find activities to do to take your mind off of sex until your H is receptive to having it with you. Also, continued discussions with him to try to better align each other's needs. Fortunately, he seems to be doing better at attending to your needs.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I just don't know if I should share with him how I am feeling, or if I should just keep it to myself and wait for him to come to me.

I feel so stuck, that I have to repress all my sexuality towards him. It is a thin line I walk. If I bring it up he might say, "okay lets have sex when I get home" or he might blow me off or reject me, or say something along the lines of me being a pervert, or a sex maniac. I just don't know when it is right to take that chance. I hate that it is always a guessing game.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I just don't know if I should share with him how I am feeling, or if I should just keep it to myself and wait for him to come to me.
> 
> I feel so stuck, that I have to repress all my sexuality towards him. It is a thin line I walk. If I bring it up he might say, "okay lets have sex when I get home" or he might blow me off or reject me, or say something along the lines of me being a pervert, or a sex maniac. I just don't know when it is right to take that chance. I hate that it is always a guessing game.


OR

You could make time for yourself every day and masturbate with that new toy you were supposed to get (ahem!) because it is what you want! 

Send him this: "hormones running high this week. Will be masturbating everyday, even a few times a day. Let me know your availability to lend a hand and I'll pencil you in. Otherwise, respect the closed door! Love ya!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> OR
> 
> You could make time for yourself every day and masturbate with that new toy you were supposed to get (ahem!) because it is what you want!
> 
> Send him this: "hormones running high this week. Will be masturbating everyday, even a few times a day. Let me know your availability to lend a hand and I'll pencil you in. Otherwise, respect the closed door! Love ya!


DANG IT Anon! I wish you would have posted sooner. 

I was stupid and decided to send some sexual texts. (Sometimes I just want to smack myself.) He blew me off.... I'll be making some time for myself this evening.

ETA: And tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day, and the next... well you get the point.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I just don't know if I should share with him how I am feeling, or if I should just keep it to myself and wait for him to come to me.
> 
> I feel so stuck, that I have to repress all my sexuality towards him. It is a thin line I walk. If I bring it up he might say, "okay lets have sex when I get home" or he might blow me off or reject me, or say something along the lines of me being a pervert, or a sex maniac. I just don't know when it is right to take that chance. I hate that it is always a guessing game.


:iagree:

Not having a clear, open, ACCEPTING line of communication on this front is the suck. It makes you start to doubt yourself (am i just being whiny? should i suck it up?) about when/if you should say anything. And being the only person perpetually bringing the subject up doesn't help.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Not having a clear, open, ACCEPTING line of communication on this front is the suck. It makes you start to doubt yourself (am i just being whiny? should i suck it up?) about when/if you should say anything. And being the only person perpetually bringing the subject up doesn't help.


:iagree:

Very true!

At this point he knows I'm always horny, he doesn't want to hear it anymore. I just waste my breath, and make him think I'm some sort of pervert. Even though I haven't brought up sex in normal conversation in a long time.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Actually I think I might skip out early from work today. Another bubble bath _alone_ sounds quite wonderful...

Okay, maybe I am a sex maniac. I don't care.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Send him another text that says to disregard your previous text, tell him you have reconsidered and want some alone time and then add what Anon suggested you tell him.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You're not a sex maniac! Wait till later this afternoon and send him a second text referencing my suggestion above.

Once you take on the mindset that your sexual needs are perfectly healthy and natural, taking care to meet your sexual needs won't be something you will wonder about! 

I generally send my husband a text letting him know I just masturbated but would be happy if he could lend a hand. I also send him texts telling him I need it badly and the house is full so expect a cranky wife tonight!

My kids respect the closed door when dad is home, but when it's just me -and since we're all females- a closed door doesn't mean anything. That's my biggest frustration at times! But my middle daughter moves out for good (yeah!) this week and school will be starting again soon. 

Think I'll buy a new toy to celebrate!


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *bangs head on table*
> 
> I know I just said I'm better at controlling myself, but today all I can think about is sex. I can't help it, my hormones are high this week.
> 
> Trying to decide if I should try to push my luck and ask for sex today and tomorrow. Trying to decide if I should send husband flirty texts. Talk me out of this please.


I have an extremely strong dislike for your husband. If he cared, this wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> I have an extremely strong dislike for your husband. If he cared, this wouldn't be a problem.


Ah, but he uses slight of hand to redirect his lack of attention in showing he cared to his attention in showing what a great room mate he can be!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> I have an extremely strong dislike for your husband. If he cared, this wouldn't be a problem.


Is it bad that my deepest darkest fantasies are oral sex, and a husband would I can tell I'm horny?


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

*Re: Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Very true!
> 
> At this point he knows I'm always horny, he doesn't want to hear it anymore. I just waste my breath, and make him think I'm some sort of pervert. Even though I haven't brought up sex in normal conversation in a long time.


How many times are you going to say something along these lines? I understand that he might be making some progress, but your first post in this thread is quite old, and by your own admission, this thread was created to streamline your questions. This isn't a new problem, and I still get a very strong feeling that he has sex with you to shut you up, not to make you feel good. I'm not saying he isn't to blame, but at some point, blame needs to be laid at your feet for putting up with it. You enable his behavior, and eventually, the only thing left to say is that you deserve what you got. Tell your husband that you have needs. If he isn't willing to meet them, you will meet them yourself. And if he plans to continue to neglect your needs, you will outsource them.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> How many times are you going to say something along these lines? I understand that he might be making some progress, but your first post in this thread is quite old, and by your own admission, this thread was created to streamline your questions. This isn't a new problem, and I still get a very strong feeling that he has sex with you to shut you up, not to make you feel good. I'm not saying he isn't to blame, but at some point, blame needs to be laid at your feet for putting up with it. You enable his behavior, and eventually, the only thing left to say is that you deserve what you got. Tell your husband that you have needs. If he isn't willing to meet them, you will meet them yourself. And if he plans to continue to neglect your needs, you will outsource them.


Your right. I stay in this situation. So I'm partly to blame if I'm miserable.

But, I still like to vent and whine. It's human nature.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Is it bad that my deepest darkest fantasies are oral sex, and a husband would I can tell I'm horny?


Don't kid yourself. 

He can tell when you're horny. Maybe he is threatened by your sex drive because to him your sex drive means he is expected to do something about it?

I think most men can tell when their wives are horny. Hell I can tell when my BFF's are horny!

I think a husband with a wife that has a strong sex drive and typically ignores her sex drive is a husband in the "won't" category of meeting your spouses emotional needs.

This might be a good week to set expectations for him meeting your needs and assessing how well he does.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Don't kid yourself.
> 
> He can tell when you're horny. Maybe he is threatened by your sex drive because to him your sex drive means he is expected to do something about it?
> 
> I think most men can tell when their wives are horny. Hell I can tell when my BFF's are horny!
> 
> I think a husband with a wife that has a strong sex drive and typically ignores her sex drive is a husband in the "won't" category of meeting your spouses emotional needs.
> 
> This might be a good week to set expectations for him meeting your needs and assessing how well he does.


I know HE can tell when I'm horny. But it would be nice if I could tell him verbally when I'm horny. I'd like to be able to say, "baby, I've been thinking of you all day, I need some sex now" and he would actually be okay with it, and want to meet my needs instead of blowing me off or calling me a horn dog. 

Ideas on expectations?

I thought I was _doing my own thing_ this week.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It takes a while to learn some things. We might now them as a good idea but putting them into practice takes time. 

I think you're at the precipice Curious. Embrace who you are and what you desire and expect your spouse to put some effort into meeting your needs regularly, not just when it's convenient to him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So should I demand sex today and tomorrow, or should I work things out on my own and continue staying "sexually cool?"

I am confused on what my plan of attack should be. 

.... and now I am quite looking forward to a bubble bath.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know HE can tell when I'm horny. But it would be nice if I could tell him verbally when I'm horny. I'd like to be able to say, "baby, I've been thinking of you all day, I need some sex now" and he would actually be okay with it, and want to meet my needs instead of blowing me off or calling me a horn dog.
> 
> Ideas on expectations?
> 
> I thought I was _doing my own thing_ this week.


You are doing your own thing. You are not demanding sex, most people don't respond well to demands anyway.

But you are also inviting him to meet those needs and not allowing him to shame you out of having those needs.

"I'm gonna be super horny this week and would love to have you chase me around, throw me down and give me a bunch of orgasms. I'd like this a couple of times this week. But from past experience it is clear that you aren't comfortable meeting this need very often. So I would love it if you do the best you can, when you can and respect the closed door the rest of the time."

If he is any kind of man he will endeavor to meet your needs at least a few times in the next 5 days. But if he is a selfish little boy he will continue to try to make you feel like you are the problem and not him. 

By telling him to respect the closed door you are saying if you can't/won't meet my normal and healthy needs I will have them met in other ways that don't include you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I want to buy that vibrator!?! Arg. I just can't pull the money right now.  Poo. Keep your fingers crossed that I can order it soon. I'm excited to try it out.

Husband is fully aware I'm going to buy one soon. He has encouraged it. So he is not oblivious to the fact that I have needs that I am taking care of since he is unwilling.

I can't wait to get it though. I have a feeling he isn't taking me seriously. Ha.

I am lusting after them on Amazon right now. Sigh.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> Does the toy fund accept paypal donations? , but I'm serious.


First round of vibrators are on Charlie! WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I will chip in too - it can be a belated birthday gift from you TAM friends!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Totally creepy idea! But I like it!

"But honey all my online friends pitched in for it!"

Google sex toys and your area. I go into adult stores all the time provided they're not in a bad section of town. Most of the time they are fun places to be! Just go during the day or take a girl friend before you two go out to lunch!

Amazon, if you have a prime account you could get it by Thursday!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm in, someone tell me where I can send the $$.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Isn't this what bit coins are designed for? We can buy it coins and send the credit to an online identity anonymously? 

Curious has to make this purchase on her own and for herself! This is a life altering purchase that symbolizes a full and complete embracing of her sexuality.

Now make the purchase Curious!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> How's this? I gave my SIL a rabbit vibe as a serious gift. This was in consultation with Mrs P and had to do with SIL not getting HBO to see that episode of Sex and the City.


That's creepy Charlie!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Anon, I'd still happily buy it for her. Curious, feel free to PM me and we'll talk about it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> OR
> 
> You could make time for yourself every day and masturbate with that new toy you were supposed to get (ahem!) because it is what you want!
> 
> Send him this: "hormones running high this week. Will be masturbating everyday, even a few times a day. Let me know your availability to lend a hand and I'll pencil you in. Otherwise, respect the closed door! Love ya!


Good idea. But he may hear the buzzing and want to watch!



TheCuriousWife said:


> Actually I think I might skip out early from work today. Another bubble bath _alone_ sounds quite wonderful...
> 
> Okay, maybe I am a sex maniac. I don't care.


Nothing wrong with being a sex maniac!



TheCuriousWife said:


> Is it bad that my deepest darkest fantasies are oral sex, and a husband would I can tell I'm horny?


Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all!



Anon Pink said:


> Don't kid yourself.
> 
> He can tell when you're horny. Maybe he is threatened by your sex drive because to him your sex drive means he is expected to do something about it?
> 
> I think most men can tell when their wives are horny. Hell I can tell when my BFF's are horny!
> 
> I think a husband with a wife that has a strong sex drive and typically ignores her sex drive is a husband in the "won't" category of meeting your spouses emotional needs.
> 
> This might be a good week to set expectations for him meeting your needs and assessing how well he does.


Seems that way but if his hormones are truly low he may not. I honestly did have to say things out loud cause he just didn't see the obvious, now he catches everything. 



Anon Pink said:


> That's creepy Charlie!


Depends on the family dynamics!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'll donate.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> That's creepy Charlie!


Not getting a good vibe from his posts? I think he's trying to spread some good tingles.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I was mostly yanking his chain. Should have included this  then it would have been clearer.

Still adore you Charlie, even though you're kinda creepy....


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The magic wand is way too powerful for me, but damn it feel great on my back, my neck, my butt, my thighs....


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> So should I demand sex today and tomorrow, or should I work things out on my own and continue staying "sexually cool?"
> 
> I am confused on what my plan of attack should be.
> 
> .... and now I am quite looking forward to a bubble bath.


He already blew off your texts, what makes you think that you "demanding" sex for the next two days is a good idea? :scratchhead:


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

I would try to order one of these for him..... 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/07/bondara-sexfit-i-used-to-be-a-serious-journalist/


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Aww. Thanks guys! I am touched that you would pitch in for me. 

But I think this is something I need to fund myself. Plus I think my husband would be seriously creeped out if a bunch of my internet stranger friends bought me a vibrator. lol.

You guys are awesome. :smthumbup:

Soon, very soon! 

In the mean time, I broke my own record yesterday. 3 O's in one sitting. So I'm clearly not suffering without it.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Is it bad that my deepest darkest fantasies are oral sex, and a husband would I can tell I'm horny?


Sadly, yes. When something as everyday as oral sex is a fantasy it's not good. That's for sure.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> Oh, OK, I thought my wife was the only woman to only use it for "off label purposes".


Um, really? So you didn't know that doctors used to use this type of vibrator on women to "cure hysteria"? And that as soon as they were available to the public, women everywhere bought one for no other reason than to get O's from them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good lord. I bought one for my wife and it did NOTHING for her. Now I'm the one using it for back massages.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Struggling here.

Haven't had sex since Thursday, and I am so horny. Self help isn't cutting it. 

The problem with this is that I have zero desire for my husband. In fact right now I just want to be away from him. 

It makes no sense! I know if I have sex I will feel better, but I am so angry about his whatever attitude about sex, that being intimate with him is like the last thing on earth I want to do right now.

He doesn't seem to be missing it at all. I accidentally let some words slip last night about sex and he was all, "if you want to have sex we can, I don't care."

 I don't care translates to me as, "I'm not really in the mood. I don't find you sexy enough, so I could go without, but I will have sex with you if you have to have it... etc."

It makes me feel so undesired, and I've told him that over and over. 

From now on, so help me, every time he says, "I don't care" or "if you want to" I will take that as a no, and say no thanks. Either he wants to have sex or he doesn't. He needs to be more aggressive and assertive with his feelings and just tell me if he wants to have sex, not just beat around the bush. It's a yes or no question. These guessing games drive me crazy!

I mean really. He has the same excitement about having sex as he has when he takes the trash out. I'm just through with it. If he isn't willing to put the effort in, then I'd rather just live without.

Whew. Rant over.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm so sorry Curious - I know you are frustrated. Wish I had an answer for you that would solve your problems. I hope your husband grows up and really starts to appreciate what he has in you.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Struggling here.
> 
> Haven't had sex since Thursday, and I am so horny. Self help isn't cutting it.
> 
> The problem with this is that I have zero desire for my husband. In fact right now I just want to be away from him.
> 
> It makes no sense! I know if I have sex I will feel better, but I am so angry about his whatever attitude about sex, that being intimate with him is like the last thing on earth I want to do right now.
> 
> He doesn't seem to be missing it at all. I accidentally let some words slip last night about sex and he was all, "if you want to have sex we can, I don't care."
> 
> I don't care translates to me as, "I'm not really in the mood. I don't find you sexy enough, so I could go without, but I will have sex with you if you have to have it... etc."
> 
> It makes me feel so undesired, and I've told him that over and over.
> 
> From now on, so help me, every time he says, "I don't care" or "if you want to" I will take that as a no, and say no thanks. Either he wants to have sex or he doesn't. He needs to be more aggressive and assertive with his feelings and just tell me if he wants to have sex, not just beat around the bush. It's a yes or no question. These guessing games drive me crazy!
> 
> I mean really. He has the same excitement about having sex as he has when he takes the trash out. I'm just through with it. If he isn't willing to put the effort in, then I'd rather just live without.
> 
> Whew. Rant over.


You need to feel wanted. You need to feel his attraction toward you. You need to feel loved. 

Assuming you have already explained to him in simple, easy to understand 1-3 syllable words that you need to feel his desire for you and he still doesn't get it, he likely won't. 

But here we both are, back at the beginning.

Maybe marriage is like a never ending spiral? Back at the northern most part of the spiral but perhaps a level up from where you started?

I feel like that often. Back to the starting point but a level up since the last time I was here.

I don't think the spiral, like a slinky being held above the ground from the top of the tallest building, always goes in one direction. Sometimes it goes down before it sharply goes up. But each rotation essentially puts us back at the starting point, a level up.

How far till we reach the top depends on how close the bottom we start. Sometimes we travel quickly, other times we travel slowly.

As the brilliant FaithfulWife pointed out on another thread, we each have our own version of where the top is. Good enough might be the very top, or it might mean good enough to stop for a time. Good enough might be the starting point, the ending point, or a resting point. Since we all change through the years, good enough might mean nothing to you in a few years, or might mean everything.

Curious, I think you know where your ending point might be. The bottom rung level of what you can accept as good enough. The trouble is, does good enough mean good enough to keep trying or does good enough mean this is what I can be happy with.

In your husband's favor is that he is young and many of the mistakes he is making can be attributed to youth and inexperience. But not in your husbands favor is his self centered attitude. That's not so easily changed. My husband is not at all self centered, but he is rather dense..

Have you ever given your husband duty sex? I wonder if he has any idea what that kind of rejection feels like? Maybe arranging 2-3 times in a row of bored disinterested duty sex might be a good way to wake him up? And then ask him if he felt loved, wanted or cherished as you laid unresponsive, then quickly rolled over and got out of bed? I'll say this though, if he doesn't notice your unresponsiveness and doesn't say anything about it. You may as well harden your heart and prepare to exit. He'll have revealed just how far down the spiral he is starting and you'll be old a grey before he even gets to the middle.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Great post anon!!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> You need to feel wanted. You need to feel his attraction toward you. You need to feel loved.
> 
> Assuming you have already explained to him in simple, easy to understand 1-3 syllable words that you need to feel his desire for you and he still doesn't get it, he likely won't.
> 
> But here we both are, back at the beginning.
> 
> Have you ever given your husband duty sex? I wonder if he has any idea what that kind of rejection feels like? Maybe arranging 2-3 times in a row of bored disinterested duty sex might be a good way to wake him up? And then ask him if he felt loved, wanted or cherished as you laid unresponsive, then quickly rolled over and got out of bed? I'll say this though, if he doesn't notice your unresponsiveness and doesn't say anything about it. You may as well harden your heart and prepare to exit. He'll have revealed just how far down the spiral he is starting and you'll be old a grey before he even gets to the middle.


Yes. I want more than the sex. I want his affection, attention, and attraction.

I've spelled it out, written it out, talked it out, texted it out.  It still goes in one ear and out the other.

Thanks for your heartfelt post. We both seem to be having a stinky day. *hugs*

He has gotten duty sex... sort of. :scratchhead: Days like this where I am so not into it, but I know I need sex to feel better. I will lay there, and be quiet, and mostly unresponsive. He doesn't seem to care, or gives two hoots about it. Occasionally he will ask what is wrong, but overall I'd say it doesn't matter.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW... Forgive me if this sounds harsh or blunt.

You are still a "newlywed", so to speak. You should be in the honeymoon phase, the two of you b*nging away like bunny rabbits. Sex just shouldn't be so d*mn complicated.

After 151 pages of this thread, I haven't seen much change in terms of your satisfaction with your sex life. And very little change in terms of his willingness to address the issues and work through them.

I was in the same boat as you -- married to a man who never cared one way or the other whether we had sex. I stayed for a long, miserable twenty years. I finally got out.

I would hate to see you with this same frustration in twenty years.

So, my question is, is this a relationship you really want to be in for the rest of your life? :scratchhead:


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I see where your thread is now more than a year old, with little success to show for your efforts. I wonder how long you are going to continue to see if you can change him. (you cant, but keep trying if you must, I get that). 
I have been where you are now, a spouse that could not care less about sex with me. Married 30 years, until I discovered that she didn't have a problem having sex with a couple of guys that were not me, we were divorced almost 3 years ago. Since then I have dated (something I never did before, as she was my high school sweetheart) and am now in a 2 year relationship with a great woman. and the secret I want to share........ THE SEX IS GREAT! 
Keep working on your marriage, I tried hard to save mine as well, but at some point it is time to fish or cut bait. Know that out there somewhere is the right person for you. They will love you, cherish you, and look forward to the chance to make love to you. That is how it is suppose to be. I really do not think your husband will ever be that guy. Way to selfish IMO.

LOL just posted and then came back to edit after reading Happys post, great minds think alike


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. I want more than the sex. I want his affection, attention, and attraction.
> 
> I've spelled it out, written it out, talked it out, texted it out.  It still goes in one ear and out the other.
> 
> Thanks for your heartfelt post. We both seem to be having a stinky day. *hugs*
> 
> He has gotten duty sex... sort of. :scratchhead: Days like this where I am so not into it, but I know I need sex to feel better. I will lay there, and be quiet, and mostly unresponsive. *He doesn't seem to care, or gives two hoots about it. *Occasionally he will ask what is wrong, but overall I'd say it doesn't matter.


You have your answer. Now you just have be prepared to accept it as the answer. His good enough will never be close to your good enough.

As John117 pointed out earlier in this thread, I think it was this thread, the rather important distinction between "can't" and "won't." The fact that your husband "occasionally asks what is wrong" after duty sex, tells me he falls squarely in the "won't" category of change. He sees that you're not into it, but he won't care enough to do anything about it because he already has his "good enough."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> CW... Forgive me if this sounds harsh or blunt.
> 
> You are still a "newlywed", so to speak. You should be in the honeymoon phase, the two of you b*nging away like bunny rabbits. Sex just shouldn't be so d*mn complicated.
> 
> After 151 pages of this thread, I haven't seen much change in terms of your satisfaction with your sex life. And very little change in terms of his willingness to address the issues and work through them.
> 
> I was in the same boat as you -- married to a man who never cared one way or the other whether we had sex. I stayed for a long, miserable twenty years. I finally got out.
> 
> I would hate to see you with this same frustration in twenty years.
> 
> So, my question is, is this a relationship you really want to be in for the rest of your life? :scratchhead:



:iagree:

And my answer is yes and no. I am confused.

I truly enjoy our marriage in everything except sex. We had a wonderful date night on Saturday. We have fun together. He is good to me when I am sick. 

I guess at this point the decision is, is a bad sex life a good enough reason to me, to throw away all the other things I enjoy in our marriage. On the flip side. Is all the good things in our marriage, enough reason to throw away a satisfactory sex life. 

:scratchhead:

I don't feel I am ready yet to make that choice, either way.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot to share my funny story from last night. I think I've said it before but my husband frequently sleep talks, and/or walks. He usually doesn't remember any of it. But it always gives me a laugh.

Well this morning when he woke up he wasn't wearing any boxers. Which doesn't sound strange except that when he went to sleep he had pants on. He says he faintly remembers waking up in the middle of the night, standing up, saying something, and then taking them off and throwing them across the room. He thought it was a dream. Sure enough, his boxers were hanging on a mirror. 

He says he doesn't remember what he said, or why, but he just knows that he felt really strongly that they had to come off. 

Figures, the one time I sleep through his antics. I usually wake up and make sure he doesn't do something stupid. (Once he put a 20lb weight in our bed) But I was so exhausted, that I missed it. Darn.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Too good to leave, too bad to stay. There is a book with this title. I read it several years ago. The author, a psychologist marriage counselor compiled a list of questions and potential answers to each question, yes or no. Then for each question she postulates, according to the clients she has deal with, that those who answered this way and stayed, or left depending on the question were happy they did.

I read the book and for each answer in which she predicted, based on her case histories, that those who answered this way and left were happy that they left were the same answers I had. Not ONE of my answers indicated I would be happy if I stayed.

And yet here I am, content at times and sad and adrift at others.

I won't tell you to leave. But I will BEG you not to have children anytime soon. Having children will essentially put a roof and a lock on your cage.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

First make the minor choice, get the vibrator. You deserve it. It is a matter of priorities, not money now. I suspect you are delaying the purchase because something inside is afraid.

Second, I can fully understand why you can't be totally honest and up front with your horny streak to him. If you told him you are so horny that you want it 12 times this week he would think you are some sort of abnormal person. And that would hurt. So you don't tell him about the horny streak and you don't get what you want.

I too have been guilty about this one. We talked about how many times a week we wanted sex and I was thinking 6 or so, but I knew that would make me look like a pevert. So I said 2 or 3 and she thought I was a pervert.

But what I was really trying to say is that your drive is fine, horny streaks are fine too. You are just normally sexual, and that is perfectly fine and normal. And that when you fail to disclose the horny streak to him you are not honest with him.

If you can be honest with him, then you can come to an understanding that he will be unable to satisfy you all the time this week, but he is welcome to join you anytime he wants - hopefully with gusto.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Too good to leave, too bad to stay. There is a book with this title. I read it several years ago. The author, a psychologist marriage counselor compiled a list of questions and potential answers to each question, yes or no. Then for each question she postulates, according to the clients she has deal with, that those who answered this way and stayed, or left depending on the question were happy they did.
> 
> I read the book and for each answer in which she predicted, based on her case histories, that those who answered this way and left were happy that they left were the same answers I had. Not ONE of my answers indicated I would be happy if I stayed.
> 
> And yet here I am, content at times and sad and adrift at others.
> 
> I won't tell you to leave. But I will BEG you not to have children anytime soon. Having children will essentially put a roof and a lock on your cage.


Ah yes. The fear of the unknown.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Ah yes. The fear of the unknown.



Exactly!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious,
> 
> First make the minor choice, get the vibrator. You deserve it. It is a matter of priorities, not money now. I suspect you are delaying the purchase because something inside is afraid.
> 
> Second, I can fully understand why you can't be totally honest and up front with your horny streak to him. If you told him you are so horny that you want it 12 times this week he would think you are some sort of abnormal person. And that would hurt. So you don't tell him about the horny streak and you don't get what you want.
> 
> I too have been guilty about this one. We talked about how many times a week we wanted sex and I was thinking 6 or so, but I knew that would make me look like a pevert. So I said 2 or 3 and she thought I was a pervert.
> 
> But what I was really trying to say is that your drive is fine, horny streaks are fine too. You are just normally sexual, and that is perfectly fine and normal. And that when you fail to disclose the horny streak to him you are not honest with him.
> 
> If you can be honest with him, then you can come to an understanding that he will be unable to satisfy you all the time this week, but he is welcome to join you anytime he wants - hopefully with gusto.


I will get the vibrator soon. I'm paying off something, and am using it as some incentive for myself.  I've just about made it.

And I just can't see anything good out of telling him I'm horny anymore. Every time I do I just get my feelings hurt and regret it. He knows I'm horny, he doesn't care. Why continue to repeat that over and over?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will get the vibrator soon. I'm paying off something, and am using it as some incentive for myself.  I've just about made it.
> 
> And I just can't see anything good out of telling him I'm horny anymore. Every time I do I just get my feelings hurt and regret it. He knows I'm horny, he doesn't care. Why continue to repeat that over and over?


Several reasons why you should tell him.
1. He is rather dense too. Spell it out for him.
2. You are mentally keeping track of how you state what you want from him and how he responds. You learn from this.
3. It's never a good idea to close yourself off unless you intend to keep doing it. Since this is not the direction you are currently on, don't toy with closing yourself off to him.
4. Behave in the way that comes naturally to who you are. Don't stop being yourself! Ever! Eventually, you will find yourself again and boy will she be pissed about being forgotten!

ETA: this doesn't mean you forgo your plan of informing him of your randiness and expressing a desire to feel his desire but also expressing the plan that when he *won't* meet your needs, you expect privacy to attend to them yourself.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

All sexless marriages (yes I know that you have way more than a frequency of 10/year) that have two physically healthy spouses and a toxic flavor have a few commonalities:
1. Deceit (and lots of it)
- the vanilla kind and
- the gas lighting variety 
2. Acute Selfishness 

You aren't dealing with a difference in sex drives. Hell - CW, most marriages have periods of time during which there are substantial differences in sex drive. 

Even those that start out well matched, rarely stay that way for a lifetime. 

At peak, I'd say M2 and I had a 10 fold difference in drive. 

We were both brutally transparent with each other, and made a genuine good faith effort to find a happy compromise. 

Don't know why your H is being deceitful and selfish. I just know that those traits tend to worsen over time. 

Some folks on here say this thing that's quite laughable. They say you don't need sex to be happy - lots of single folks are happy. 

But being single isn't the same as being in the same house with someone you love and desire, who is singularly unkind about the physical part of your marriage. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> I will get the vibrator soon. I'm paying off something, and am using it as some incentive for myself.  I've just about made it.
> 
> And I just can't see anything good out of telling him I'm horny anymore. Every time I do I just get my feelings hurt and regret it. He knows I'm horny, he doesn't care. Why continue to repeat that over and over?


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

MEM, the operative words are "love and desire". 

If there's anyone out there that truly "loves and desires" their partner while they're holding out, I have prime ocean view land to sell them in West Paducah.

Unfortunately lots of people here need reality checks otherwise they continue doing what they do... 

What you describe is basically the reason DIY fixes don't work in hardcore withholding cases. Once "love and desire" is replaced by "convenience and resentment" it's curtains. No point trying to reanimate the corpse. It's dead.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW... I honestly think it's either time to book long-term appointments for you and your husband with a licensed sex therapist...

*OR...*

it's time for you to GET OUT of this lonely, sexually unfulfilling marriage.

How many pages are you going to let this thread go, where you are simply COMPLAINING about your incompatibility without TAKING STEPS TO ACTIVELY CHANGE THINGS? For SIX months you've been contemplating buying a vibrator... sheesh...

The mods shut down SteveK's thread for precisely the same reason... they basically told him, either come up with something entirely new to your approach in this whole mess, or close your thread until you can.

I can't see your thread is much different from SteveK's. Except everyone is nicer to you, and no one is really attacking you (yet).

Some of us are growing WEARY...

Time to make a decision, CW.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will get the vibrator soon. I'm paying off something, and am using it as some incentive for myself.  I've just about made it.
> 
> And I just can't see anything good out of telling him I'm horny anymore. Every time I do I just get my feelings hurt and regret it. He knows I'm horny, he doesn't care. Why continue to repeat that over and over?


Yup, put a priority on the vibrator.

Well, if you don't tell him about your horny streak then he may not really know (you know of course, but he may be so dense he missed it). And that is not being honest with him or yourself. You need to disclose it to him in a non threatening way. Not like "have sex with me or else." But more like "Hay, I am feeling super horny now and would love for you to satisfy me right now and again a few minutes from now. However, if you are not up that much sex, then give me some space to satisfy myself.. Join in whenever you can, and make me feel good. I am your wife and I want you to make me feel good." And yes, I know that sounds like something he might be appalled at. But you are normal, with needs and wants, and there is no law that says your are limited to the amount of sex you can get by somebody else's standard.

On this forum, I feel somewhat hypocritical. Often I am giving the same advice as I should be taking myself. I wish my situation was absolutely wonderful, but it too needs work. Sometimes I find it easier to tell somebody else what to do than to accept what I must do myself. In any event, I apologize for giving advice that I myself have a hard time giving to myself.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Screw it. 

Vibrator bought. 

I don't care about money. The one I wanted was on sale for $15 off. It is listed as a different brand but looks exactly the same, and has 90 day guarantee so I went for it. 

Wishing me lots of fun in 5 - 8 days. (According to shipping)


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Screw it.
> 
> Vibrator bought.


Ok CW... proud of you for FINALLY taking this step... a decision that's taken you 6 months to make that most of us could make in about 15 seconds.

But the fact remains... a vibrator WON'T fix your marriage. It isn't a substitute for your husband and a healthy sex life. It is, well, a *substitute.* I tried this for about 15 of my 20-year marriage. Then I left. 

There is no substitute for a man who will b*ng the daylights out you, seven ways to Sunday. I found my virile, Alpha, forever lover. Who loves me always, in ALL ways. 

The passion, the lovemaking, the whispered sweet-nothings, are beyond belief. Him waking me up in the middle of the night to kiss me "down there", to DOMINATE me because he feels like it, the endless back rubs, snaking our bodies together after a shower, the endless sexy texts all day long from him, I just hope you someday get to experience a FRACTION of that when you are finally with the RIGHT partner.

I no longer have to "settle" for a plastic jackrabbit. I hope you won't either.

Enjoy your new purchase. But don't forget the ever-looming problem


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Happy as a Clam, I know your tired of hearing me complain and not taking drastic action.

But none of you can force me to get a divorce or just suck it up and be happy, just like I can't force my husband to go to counseling. 

I'm sorry but I am just not ready to make that permanent decision. I realize you went through this and were miserable so your trying to get me to learn from your mistakes, but sometimes a person has to go through their own mistakes before they learn. I'm a hands on kind of person.

So if everyone is truly tired of me ranting and complaining I will shut this thread down. Otherwise let me continue whining and occasionally wallowing in my self pity, while I post about my day to day progress and struggles. I don't really see what I am hurting.

If this thread is a trigger for you, or makes you crazy, don't read it. That's all I'm saying.

ETA: I'm not trying to be rude at all.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> So if everyone is truly tired of me ranting and complaining I will shut this thread down.


Yes, many of us are tired of it. Even though I am not a subscribed member, it pops up on "new posts" all the time. I would advise you to shut it down and start a new one when something changes that will make a REAL difference.

When YOU are brave enough to stop whining and make a substantive change.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Ok CW... proud of you for FINALLY taking this step... a decision that's taken you 6 months to make that most of us could make in about 15 seconds.
> 
> But the fact remains... a vibrator WON'T fix your marriage. It isn't a substitute for your husband and a healthy sex life. It is, well, a *substitute.* I tried this for about 15 of my 20-year marriage. Then I left.
> 
> There is no substitute for a man who will b*ng the daylights out you, seven ways to Sunday. I found my virile, Alpha, forever lover. Who loves me always, in ALL ways.
> 
> The passion, the lovemaking, the whispered sweet-nothings, are beyond belief. Him waking me up in the middle of the night to kiss me "down there", to DOMINATE me because he feels like it, the endless back rubs, snaking our bodies together after a shower, the endless sexy texts all day long from him, I just hope you someday get to experience a FRACTION of that when you are finally with the RIGHT partner.
> 
> I no longer have to "settle" for a plastic jackrabbit. I hope you won't either.
> 
> Enjoy your new purchase. But don't forget the ever-looming problem


I am glad you got your happy ending. 

I am a pretty indecisive person, so I guess I just take longer to make choices. I have a hard time deciding what to eat for breakfast. lol. But hey you took 20 years to finally make up your mind, so you can't hardly fault me when I'm only two years in. I know your just wanting the best for me, and it is very nice that you care that much about my happiness. Thanks for that.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John,

I think that's right. 

Even when M2 felt very little sexual desire for me, she still cared about me, loved me and had a sincere desire to please me in bed. And that got us through some rough patches. 

And even when I was supremely frustrated with M2, and frequently fighting with her, I still loved her and retained a core desire to please her. 

The thing about CW's H is that he doesn't want to tell the truth. Instead he gas lights and blameshifts and manipulates. 





john117 said:


> MEM, the operative words are "love and desire".
> 
> If there's anyone out there that truly "loves and desires" their partner while they're holding out, I have prime ocean view land to sell them in West Paducah.
> 
> Unfortunately lots of people here need reality checks otherwise they continue doing what they do...
> 
> What you describe is basically the reason DIY fixes don't work in hardcore withholding cases. Once "love and desire" is replaced by "convenience and resentment" it's curtains. No point trying to reanimate the corpse. It's dead.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But hey you took 20 years to finally make up your mind, so you can't hardly fault me when I'm only two years in.


Curious Wife, I PM'd you why it took me 20 years to get out of the loveless pit. For those of you who aren't "in the loop" my ex was the heir to a big $$$ family business/fortune. With his high-priced, fancy attorneys, he threatened to cut my CHILDREN out of their future inheritance if we divorced. Believe me, with his snake attorneys he could have accomplished it.

Very hard to fight $1000 per hour attorneys when I had no "fortune" of my own.

I gave up money, vacation homes, luxury cars, drivers, travel, private plane, etc., all to have a shot at happiness for MYSELF, a chance to experience REAL, unconditional LOVE.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't let fear of the unknown hold you back forever. You can end up with a wasted life that way. Many people do. You'd be amazed at how quickly the decades pass and you realize one day you wish you had made another choice. 

Have you told him in no uncertain terms, as blunt as you can make it, that you don't want to live your life this way? Sure, many could. And do. But whether you can is the question. And he needs to know if this is a potential deal breaker before children are involved.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

HaaC,
Did your ex treat you better in and out of bed before your first child?

In general did he traverse the dreaded stability staircase of despair?

In a bad marriage, the stability staircase refers to the inverse correlation between relationship stability and how your partner treats you. The more stable they perceive the marriage, the worse they neglect you. 

Typically the discrete events which increase stability are:
- Engagement
- Marriage
- First child
- Last planned child/last child

This is most especially pronounced WRT sexual neglect. 




happy as a clam said:


> Curious Wife, I PM'd you why it took me 20 years to get out of the loveless pit. For those of you who aren't "in the loop" my ex was the heir to a multi-million dollar family business/fortune. With his high-priced, fancy attorneys, he threatened to cut my CHILDREN out of their future inheritance if we divorced. Believe me, with his snake attorneys he could have accomplished it.
> 
> Very hard to fight $1000 per hour attorneys when I had no "fortune" of my own.
> 
> I gave up money, vacation homes, luxury cars, drivers, travel, private plane, etc., all to have a shot at happiness for MYSELF, a chance to experience REAL, unconditional LOVE.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
You run your life at your pace. And that is how it should be. 

I'm only harping on the gas lighting incident because I'm concerned for your mental health over time. 

Under duress, instead of choosing honesty, he is being very hurtful. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> I am glad you got your happy ending.
> 
> I am a pretty indecisive person, so I guess I just take longer to make choices. I have a hard time deciding what to eat for breakfast. lol. But hey you took 20 years to finally make up your mind, so you can't hardly fault me when I'm only two years in. I know your just wanting the best for me, and it is very nice that you care that much about my happiness. Thanks for that.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You have mentioned that he says he doesn't find you sexy. Did he say that type of thing when you were dating or did it begin after you were married? Any indication he's attracted to a different body type (does he comment on someone he thinks is sexy on television, etc.)?


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> HaaC,
> Did your ex treat you better in and out of bed before your first child?


Definitely worse AFTER kids. Once he knew he had me "hooked" the kids became the pawn in his game. He knew I was severely "weakened" when it came to trying to get out with my kids intact.



MEM11363 said:


> In general did he traverse the dreaded stability staircase of despair?
> 
> In a bad marriage, the stability staircase refers to the *inverse correlation between relationship stability and how your partner treats you.* The more stable they perceive the marriage, the worse they neglect you.


Correct! The more entrenched we became (children, finances, in-law relationships, trust-funds, vacation properties, company dividends, etc.) the MORE control he exerted. He became intolerable.

I'm not aware of the "stability staircase" but I think I definitely lived it! I will Google it for more info.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Woah...this is a 2 year old marriage and a bit early to throw in the towel, no?

CW is unhappy with her sex life *only* ATM. Other than that she says he's great! There's one issue to work on. Most have been through worse, at some point, I'm thinking...

This forum is PRO marriage, right? They have made _small_ gains here and there.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I echo MEM, go or stay at your own pace.

Yes, this is a marriage forum, but unlike the village priests, we aren't going to advise anyone to learn to be happy with something they can't be happy with particularly when the source of the unhappiness is highly unlikely to change without extreme provocation. 

CuriousWife could be me, 30 years from now....

Bet that scared ya!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Yes, many of us are tired of it. Even though I am not a subscribed member, it pops up on "new posts" all the time. I would advise you to shut it down and start a new one when something changes that will make a REAL difference.
> 
> When YOU are brave enough to stop whining and make a substantive change.


Neither you nor anyone else gets to make decisions for Curious, or anyone else who has a thread going. 

You had your reasons for taking so damn long to get it together and leave your ex. You are now judging whether or not Curious' reasons are as worthy of a wait period as yours was.

Curious isn't whining. If this thread bothers you, ignore it.but don't come blustering in making demands that she make changes she's not yet ready for. If you can't help her become ready, other than throwing down the glove, then don't post.

Curious is indecisive. I'm a coward. You were also indecisive and a coward. We move when we are ready and not a moment before.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Curious is indecisive. I'm a coward. You were also indecisive and a coward. We move when we are ready and not a moment before.


Sorry Anon. I often agree with your opinions in many of your posts. But you've been coddling OP on this one for 151 pages.

And now I WILL take your advice. Checking out of this thread for good. It's a MAJOR trigger for me.

One more thing... please speak for yourself. I am not an indecisive coward.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Happy,
The stability staircase is a term I use to describe a phenomenon I noticed while reading thousands of posts on TAM.





happy as a clam said:


> Definitely worse AFTER kids. Once he knew he had me "hooked" the kids became the pawn in his game. He knew I was severely "weakened" when it came to trying to get out with my kids intact.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct! The more entrenched we became (children, finances, in-law relationships, trust-funds, vacation properties, company dividends, etc.) the MORE control he exerted. He became intolerable.
> 
> I'm not aware of the "stability staircase" but I think I definitely lived it! I will Google it for more info.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TT,
The thing is that CW's H is attempting to create a behavioral template that I've seen many times on TAM. 

It almost always ends with the HD spouse gradually falling into despair. 

This isn't about a difference in sex drives. That as I've said can be addressed constructively. 




T&T said:


> Woah...this is a 2 year old marriage and a bit early to throw in the towel, no?
> 
> CW is unhappy with her sex life *only* ATM. Other than that she says he's great! There's one issue to work on. Most have been through worse, at some point, I'm thinking...
> 
> This forum is PRO marriage, right? They have made _small_ gains here and there.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> TT,
> The thing is that CW's H is attempting to create a behavioral template that I've seen many times on TAM.
> 
> It almost always ends with the HD spouse gradually falling into despair.
> 
> This isn't about a difference in sex drives. That as I've said can be addressed constructively.


I get that MEM. I really do.

I wrote earlier on that he was being manipulative. I actually felt bad about writing that, and then, he started to show some improvement. Now, he falls back to his earlier ways...Can this not be stopped permanently with proper counseling? 

IMHO people can and do change with guidance.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> TT,
> 
> The thing is that CW's H is attempting to create a behavioral template that I've seen many times on TAM.
> 
> 
> 
> It almost always ends with the HD spouse gradually falling into despair.



Fortunately at that age despair can be addressed fairly easily and fairly permanently as opposed to dragging it on for 20 years later.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Openminded said:


> You have mentioned that he says he doesn't find you sexy. Did he say that type of thing when you were dating or did it begin after you were married? Any indication he's attracted to a different body type (does he comment on someone he thinks is sexy on television, etc.)?


He never said that sort of thing while dating.

And no. He stills says he likes my body type. Blonde, skinny, blue eyes. Those are the types of actresses he likes too. 

Also, I don't believe he has said anything hurtful like that in a while. But I do tend to forget, so who knows.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> I get that MEM. I really do.
> 
> I wrote earlier on that he was being manipulative. I actually felt bad about writing that, and then, he started to show some improvement. Now, he falls back to his earlier ways...Can this not be stopped permanently with proper counseling?
> 
> IMHO people can and do change with guidance.


Some people change when it becomes important enough to (like a spouse is about to leave). Some won't change no matter what. That's why I think she should lay it out for him that she can't and won't continue that life long-term. Especially since he wants children soon. That would be a huge mistake with the situation the way it is. 

She doesn't need to leave immediately but he does need to know she can't stay forever under the circumstances. Sex isn't that important to everyone but it is to many and it is to her.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's pretty obvious that my constant ranting, and sharing of my personal life makes some people crazy. 

But it helps me work through my feelings. I like to talk them out, even if no one is listening. It also gives me a place to go back and read and see if any progress is being made, or what does and doesn't work. It's just how I function and cope. It makes me feel better.

But maybe it is time to check out of here for a while. In no way did I want to come across as obnoxious, or woe is me.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, please don't go away - you are not obnoxious and this should be a safe place for you to post about your feelings and difficulties. I think a lot of the posters on this thread have kinda taken you under their wing - most are not frustrated with you, they're frustrated with your husband.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
This is your thread. HaaC was out of line. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> It's pretty obvious that my constant ranting, and sharing of my personal life makes some people crazy.
> 
> But it helps me work through my feelings. I like to talk them out, even if no one is listening. It also gives me a place to go back and read and see if any progress is being made, or what does and doesn't work. It's just how I function and cope. It makes me feel better.
> 
> But maybe it is time to check out of here for a while. In no way did I want to come across as obnoxious, or woe is me.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We should not advise somebody to shutdown their thread unless they have broken the rules. If we suggest that somebody shutdown their thread because they are not doing X, then we are sending a message to new posters that we want only certain types of problems or people.

Historically, George Washington was wealthy enough to turn down the presidents salary. His advisers told him to accept the salary because if he did not it would send a message to the public that "only wealthy people can become president." He accepted the salary once it was explained to him.

Same thing here, we don't to set a hidden rule that you will be asked to shutdown if you are not making sufficient progress. it is hard enough to post as is for some of us.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Openminded said:


> Some people change when it becomes important enough to (like a spouse is about to leave). Some won't change no matter what. That's why I think she should lay it out for him that she can't and won't continue that life long-term. Especially since he wants children soon. That would be a huge mistake with the situation the way it is.
> 
> She doesn't need to leave immediately but he does need to know she can't stay forever under the circumstances. Sex isn't that important to everyone but it is to many and it is to her.


I agree with you 100% but her leaving hasn't been presented yet. So, IMHO, it's too early to pack in a two years _young_ marriage. 

Things need to change CW and it's time to play hardball. Lay it on the line. Spell it out in no uncertain terms. Get through to him once and for all...You can do it! 

And, stick around, I've read your thread from start to finish and am routing for you guys.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
I am NOT suggesting you D. I AM suggesting you get a clear picture of what you are facing. 

You need to stop for a moment and consider the effectiveness of telling your H once again what YOU want.

We already know what he will do. In the moment he nods, he agrees. And then he pretends to forget. 

He claims that he can't remember what you clearly spelled out. Or worse he says you never told him. 

So let's accept a few things as true. 
1. When it comes to sex, he lies, denies and manipulates
2. He DOES know exactly what you want and how often

Here's the thing. 

The real issue here is that you have no idea what it is HE really wants, and what he is willing to do long term. 

In a healthy marriage, you explain what you need to feel loved, and then mostly your partner loves you that way. 

Every once in a while you convey your disappointment if they really screw up, but for the most part they feel enough desire to please / avoid displeasing you that you don't need to apply continuous pressure. 

In an unhealthy marriage, you have to constantly apply pressure or your needs are largely ignored. 

So - you need to find out what your H will do absent any pressure at all. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> It's pretty obvious that my constant ranting, and sharing of my personal life makes some people crazy.
> 
> But it helps me work through my feelings. I like to talk them out, even if no one is listening. It also gives me a place to go back and read and see if any progress is being made, or what does and doesn't work. It's just how I function and cope. It makes me feel better.
> 
> But maybe it is time to check out of here for a while. In no way did I want to come across as obnoxious, or woe is me.


----------



## manticore

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He never said that sort of thing while dating.
> 
> And no. He stills says he likes my body type. Blonde, skinny, blue eyes. Those are the types of actresses he likes too.
> 
> Also, I don't believe he has said anything hurtful like that in a while. But I do tend to forget, so who knows.


I would not pay to much attention in what actresses he finds attractives, I mean the same is for men and women, some may prefer blond guys some may prefere dark hair guys but I am sure that more than 90% of the ones who likes blondes would date Tom Cruz when he was in his prime without thinking it twice and the same with the Brad pitt for those who like dark hair dudes, I mean their job besides acting is being beautiful


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I hope you didn't decide to leave your thread..............


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, I hope you didn't decide to leave your thread..............


Don't worry. Just taking a break.  Thanks for your concern.

I have nothing constructive to add to the thread at this time.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Please keep us updated on how things go


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I hope CW keeps on posting, although maybe that just because misery loves company :rofl:

CW's thoughts and troubles mirror my own in so much this thread is what keeps me coming back to TAM the most. I'm rooting for her and her marriage and keep coming back to see if she's made any progress as I search for the solution in my own.

I think that divorce may be the only way to fix THIS issue to her 100% satisfaction, but she may find a solution that is 90% to her satisfaction and prefer to stay in the marriage. It takes time to figure that out.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I hope CW keeps on posting, although maybe that just because misery loves company :rofl:


:iagree:

Also, the thread and the replies helps convince me that women actually do want sex. Hard to beat into my head after the past relationships.:banghead:


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
I want to emphasize something that comes from having a lot of experience here on TAM. 

You are making progress. You - CW - are becoming more self aware and more observant regarding your H's behavior. THAT is progress. 

I want to share something that might help you understand why I want you to focus on the process - maybe even more than the result. 

Just over two years ago M2 finally bit the bullet and told me that intercourse hurt. Almost every time. And it wasn't just uncomfortable, it was painful. 

She had pain on and off leading up to that, but now it was every time. She has a condition - vulvodynia. Sometimes it causes her to have pain just in the course of daily life. 

She was seriously afraid I would divorce her over this. Because sex is / was / always a very big deal to me. 

What I did:
I profusely apologized for whatever I had said and done over the years to create a situation where she thought I would bail on her because she was 'in sickness' sexually. 

What she did: 
M2 went out of her way to tell me and show me that she still desired me, still wanted to do other stuff. 

So - here's an honest picture of how this has played out 2+ years later:
- We have non PIV sex twice a week or so
- It's great
- She comes most of the time 

I routinely tell her I am VERY happy with our sex life. Which is true. 

This is how I would describe her/mine/our conduct:
- accepting 
- considerate
- honest 

Just the other day I had a moment. And in that moment I thought - 'it might turn out that when I turned 49, that was the very last time I ever had intercourse in my life'. 

And I gave myself ten minutes to feel bad about that. And then reminded myself that the glass is 9/10 full. And moved on, with a smile. 

The reason I mention this is - we really have had no conflict over this situation. Largely because we've both made a real effort to ensure our partner feels loved and well cared for. 

Your issue isn't that your H has some sexual issues. It's that he isn't working around them in a kind and considerate manner. 

And - FWIW - M2 has seen multiple doctors including a couple specialists about her condition. She has tried a bunch of creams. The only thing she hasn't done is surgery. And given the success rate of that surgery - I agree with and support that choice. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> Don't worry. Just taking a break.  Thanks for your concern.
> 
> I have nothing constructive to add to the thread at this time.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm glad some people enjoy my thread. I agree that it is nice to have other people in similar situations that can sympathize with you, and understand what you're going through. 

And that is great MEM that both you and your wife are on board to work through those difficulties! I wish my husband was as giving, and selfless as that. That is a perfect picture of love and putting others before yourself.

I told husband about the vibrator. He was a little upset, mostly about the money that was spent. I think it hurt his feelings a little though. He asked why he wasn't good enough. He also made a comment about how I would feel if he went out and bought porn because I wasn't good enough. I don't think they are the same things at all. But whatever, I think he is over it now. 

He still doesn't believe that I will use it.  I think he is in denial that I have needs, that I take care of since he won't.

It is suppose to arrive on Tuesday. Just in time for cranky week. :smthumbup:


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I told husband about the vibrator. He was a little upset, mostly about the money that was spent. I think it hurt his feelings a little though. *He asked why he wasn't good enough. He also made a comment about how I would feel if he went out and bought porn because I wasn't good enough.* I don't think they are the same things at all. But whatever, I think he is over it now.
> 
> He still doesn't believe that I will use it.  I think he is in denial that I have needs, that I take care of since he won't.
> 
> It is suppose to arrive on Tuesday. Just in time for cranky week. :smthumbup:


Excellent! You are on the precipice of what could be a major break through!

So easy to think of these things after the fact...

"Honey, this isn't a matter of you not being good enough. My orgasms are important to me. I hope they are important to you too but history has shown this not to be the case. I have a strong sex drive and I don't want to keep bothering you and being made to feel like there is something wrong with me for wanting to have sex and have orgasms.

"If you feel that I'm not good enough I trust you will tell me how you want me to behave differently. I've been honest with you about what I want and you haven't really responded. 

"This is where we are now. I've asked you for what I want and I don't feel as if you've responded. It's made me feel very disinclined to give you what you want. Instead of building each other up and giving each other what makes us feel loved, we keep score and keep track and withdraw. This is NOT a healthy place for a marriage. If you agree, we need to start taking one another's needs seriously."

Here is where you find out if he has heard you at all regarding your needs for connection through sex and effort to sexually please you. Here is where you stand you ground and immediately correct his defensive posturing designed to invalidate your needs by making them seem unreasonable. Here is where your strength and conviction in your own worth will necessitate his eventual mature response.

My prediction is that you will get a blank stare or a complete mishmash of everything you've ever told him; a repeat of the unreasonableness of your needs and or desires; counter claims from him which may be true but not the point of this discussion; ending in an angry outburst. Let this happen. He will need time to process. He will need to slowly come to terms with his own complicity.

This conversation I've so helpfully outlined for you  could be the dark before the sun rise. 

Have a productive weekend Curious!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I told husband about the vibrator. He was a little upset, mostly about the money that was spent. I think it hurt his feelings a little though. He asked why he wasn't good enough. He also made a comment about how I would feel if he went out and bought porn because I wasn't good enough. I don't think they are the same things at all. But whatever, I think he is over it now.
> 
> He still doesn't believe that I will use it.  I think he is in denial that I have needs, that I take care of since he won't.
> 
> It is suppose to arrive on Tuesday. Just in time for cranky week. :smthumbup:


Well, I am glad you ordered the vibrator, and I am glad you told him ahead of time that it is coming.

I could have predicted that he would ask why he was not good enough. He does not get it. Of course! Because he is in denial of the fact that there is a mismatch drive. And if he really does not think you will use it, then he really has his head in the sand.

Furthermore he does not understand that there is a difference between using a vibrator and having sex with your lover. This is a common misconception. Thinking "orgasm is orgasm, no matter how you get it." Nope, they are not the same, there is no substitute. I can't get that "loving feeling" from any toy.

But I am glad to see you opening up your horizon, and not being trapped to what your H thinks your sex life should be.

Have fun


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

AP,
Sorry but the script below - while fair and honest - won't - work. 

CW,
He knows what you want. He KNOWS why you bought the vibrator. 

It is very unhealthy to repeatedly, repetitiously, repeat requests. 

When you do so, the subtext is that you are telling him that it's ok to ignore you. 

If he brings up the vibrator again, get HIM to talk. You want to get into his head. You don't need to say anything as you are an open book to him. 

That said if I were you I would totally stop:
1. initiating sex
2. any sexual behaviors or comments - no jokes - no revealing outfits 

When he initiates:
- No BJ foreplay - he can either 69 or you can touch him with your hand. This prevents him from being selfish in the give and take of oral. 
- Immediate shutdown if he exhibits any crap behavior such as acting disinterested, falling asleep, making comments that reflect a lack of sincere desire to please YOU

The shutdown is not conversational. You just lean back, tilt your head (in surprise), briefly shake your head to convey that his conduct is a 'no go', and get out of bed and get dressed. 

When you get the whole bullshlt apology routine you just say one thing: do NOT do that again 

But you don't get back in bed, and you don't talk about how you feel. He knows. He isn't nice about this type stuff. 

Later you accept his apology, but you don't get back into sex the same day. You stick with: Let's see how we feel tomorrow. 




Anon Pink said:


> Excellent! You are on the precipice of what could be a major break through!
> 
> So easy to think of these things after the fact...
> 
> "Honey, this isn't a matter of you not being good enough. My orgasms are important to me. I hope they are important to you too but history has shown this not to be the case. I have a strong sex drive and I don't want to keep bothering you and being made to feel like there is something wrong with me for wanting to have sex and have orgasms.
> 
> "If you feel that I'm not good enough I trust you will tell me how you want me to behave differently. I've been honest with you about what I want and you haven't really responded.
> 
> "This is where we are now. I've asked you for what I want and I don't feel as if you've responded. It's made me feel very disinclined to give you what you want. Instead of building each other up and giving each other what makes us feel loved, we keep score and keep track and withdraw. This is NOT a healthy place for a marriage. If you agree, we need to start taking one another's needs seriously."
> 
> Here is where you find out if he has heard you at all regarding your needs for connection through sex and effort to sexually please you. Here is where you stand you ground and immediately correct his defensive posturing designed to invalidate your needs by making them seem unreasonable. Here is where your strength and conviction in your own worth will necessitate his eventual mature response.
> 
> My prediction is that you will get a blank stare or a complete mishmash of everything you've ever told him; a repeat of the unreasonableness of your needs and or desires; counter claims from him which may be true but not the point of this discussion; ending in an angry outburst. Let this happen. He will need time to process. He will need to slowly come to terms with his own complicity.
> 
> This conversation I've so helpfully outlined for you  could be the dark before the sun rise.
> 
> Have a productive weekend Curious!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, you know I think it is cute myself, but I wish you wouldn't call your period "cranky week" because I fear you also say this to your H and allow him to call it that, too. The reason this is a problem is because you are trying to get your husband to "become the man you want him to be", and calling a woman's period "cranky week" is definitely not the sign of a mature man. If he wasn't so immature in general, I don't think there'd be a problem. But because he's already a little squeamish about your body and your sexuality in general, and very immature, I think you should make an effort to begin speaking only in mature terms and ways that make sex sound seductive, appealing, and very ADULT. Our periods are most certainly part of our lives and our sex lives, for so many reasons. It is fine to acknowledge that those weeks of your life hurt your body and make you cranky, but acknowledge also that the reason those weeks exist is because you are a mature adult woman of child-bearing age...ie: the type of women who should be having a lot of sex.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
The post below is QFT. 





Faithful Wife said:


> Curious, you know I think it is cute myself, but I wish you wouldn't call your period "cranky week" because I fear you also say this to your H and allow him to call it that, too. The reason this is a problem is because you are trying to get your husband to "become the man you want him to be", and calling a woman's period "cranky week" is definitely not the sign of a mature man. If he wasn't so immature in general, I don't think there'd be a problem. But because he's already a little squeamish about your body and your sexuality in general, and very immature, I think you should make an effort to begin speaking only in mature terms and ways that make sex sound seductive, appealing, and very ADULT. Our periods are most certainly part of our lives and our sex lives, for so many reasons. It is fine to acknowledge that those weeks of your life hurt your body and make you cranky, but acknowledge also that the reason those weeks exist is because you are a mature adult woman of child-bearing age...ie: the type of women who should be having a lot of sex.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious, you know I think it is cute myself, but I wish you wouldn't call your period "cranky week" because I fear you also say this to your H and allow him to call it that, too. The reason this is a problem is because you are trying to get your husband to "become the man you want him to be", and calling a woman's period "cranky week" is definitely not the sign of a mature man. If he wasn't so immature in general, I don't think there'd be a problem. But because he's already a little squeamish about your body and your sexuality in general, and very immature, I think you should make an effort to begin speaking only in mature terms and ways that make sex sound seductive, appealing, and very ADULT. Our periods are most certainly part of our lives and our sex lives, for so many reasons. It is fine to acknowledge that those weeks of your life hurt your body and make you cranky, but acknowledge also that the reason those weeks exist is because you are a mature adult woman of child-bearing age...ie: the type of women who should be having a lot of sex.


Ovulatory reset week?








Sorry.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Red week?





Fozzy said:


> Ovulatory reset week?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We call it week 4. It is the fourth week of your cycle. Week 3 is when I start to feel out of sorts, get crampy, etc. Week 4 is the actual flow and day 1 of week 4 is usually the worst. By day 5 of week 4 I am usually back to normal.

Week 1 of my cycle, I feel the best and have the most energy. Week 2 I feel pretty good, too.

We mark what week each week is on the calendar we both use. He's fully aware of what my body is doing through out the month. We need to know this for several reasons, some of those reasons being "we're going on vacation that month but don't book it during week 4", or "dang our anniversary falls on week 4 this year, so we'll have to have a bunch of celebration sex on week 3 instead".

It is about your adult sexuality.

I don't have any problem with joking and my husband does it plenty. But if he wasn't also a highly sexual person who was actively helping me plan our sex lives, I wouldn't be so keen on him joking around.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'll have my period for the next week?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
For clarity sake, I have a single theme in my posts with you. 

And that theme is to help you teach your H how to treat you. 

Everything I suggest is tied to that. 

If you execute well, you will bring out his best. And once you've done that, you will know if it is good enough. 

That said, great execution is based on one simple premise. Just one, very powerful premise: An unshakable faith that everything is going to turn out ok. 

Once you have that, you become largely fearless. And the absence of fear is both liberating and empowering. 

Gone will be the compulsion to engage in:
- Nervous talking 
- Angry explanations as to why H's behavior isn't ok 

Yoga is a good amplifier for all this. 







TheCuriousWife said:


> Don't worry. Just taking a break.  Thanks for your concern.
> 
> I have nothing constructive to add to the thread at this time.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious, you know I think it is cute myself, but I wish you wouldn't call your period "cranky week" because I fear you also say this to your H and allow him to call it that, too. The reason this is a problem is because you are trying to get your husband to "become the man you want him to be", and calling a woman's period "cranky week" is definitely not the sign of a mature man. If he wasn't so immature in general, I don't think there'd be a problem. But because he's already a little squeamish about your body and your sexuality in general, and very immature, I think you should make an effort to begin speaking only in mature terms and ways that make sex sound seductive, appealing, and very ADULT. Our periods are most certainly part of our lives and our sex lives, for so many reasons. It is fine to acknowledge that those weeks of your life hurt your body and make you cranky, but acknowledge also that the reason those weeks exist is because you are a mature adult woman of child-bearing age...ie: the type of women who should be having a lot of sex.


:iagree:

In fact several posters have indicated that husbands often keep track of their wives cycle and are able to predict it as well or even better than their wife. I can. Helps me to advise her what to wear and when to be prepared. And it is because it is part of her, and I want to know everything that is happening to her body normally and abnormally. Feels good to be in the inner circle that has this privileged information. 

Curious, is your H keeping track of your cycle? Is he glad to know what part of the cycle you are in and try to help you as much as possible? Does he support you? You have indicated he supports you when you are sick. But does he support you when your body goes through the normal cycle?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
It's not always roses and truffles in MEM land. That said, I'll tip my hat to M2 - for exhibiting grace under intense duress.

We were in a bad spot about 4 years ago. I didn't understand what was happening. 

I asked M2 a very direct question about our sex life. 

She wasn't willing to tell me the truth, but God bless her, she wasn't willing to lie to me either. But you know I can sort of read her mind. So when I asked her this question - she freaked. 

And she got furious and deflected. And I remember leaning back, confused and saying: your jamming the channel with your anger, I can't read anything when you do that. 

CW - she didn't lie to me. She just couldn't. Despite being under a LOT of duress. 

That's a good partner. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> Don't worry. Just taking a break.  Thanks for your concern.
> 
> I have nothing constructive to add to the thread at this time.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> I want to emphasize something that comes from having a lot of experience here on TAM.
> 
> You are making progress. You - CW - are becoming more self aware and more observant regarding your H's behavior. THAT is progress.
> 
> I want to share something that might help you understand why I want you to focus on the process - maybe even more than the result.
> 
> Just over two years ago M2 finally bit the bullet and told me that intercourse hurt. Almost every time. And it wasn't just uncomfortable, it was painful.
> 
> She had pain on and off leading up to that, but now it was every time. She has a condition - vulvodynia. Sometimes it causes her to have pain just in the course of daily life.
> 
> She was seriously afraid I would divorce her over this. Because sex is / was / always a very big deal to me.
> 
> What I did:
> I profusely apologized for whatever I had said and done over the years to create a situation where she thought I would bail on her because she was 'in sickness' sexually.
> 
> What she did:
> M2 went out of her way to tell me and show me that she still desired me, still wanted to do other stuff.
> 
> So - here's an honest picture of how this has played out 2+ years later:
> - We have non PIV sex twice a week or so
> - It's great
> - She comes most of the time
> 
> I routinely tell her I am VERY happy with our sex life. Which is true.
> 
> This is how I would describe her/mine/our conduct:
> - accepting
> - considerate
> - honest
> 
> Just the other day I had a moment. And in that moment I thought - 'it might turn out that when I turned 49, that was the very last time I ever had intercourse in my life'.
> 
> And I gave myself ten minutes to feel bad about that. And then reminded myself that the glass is 9/10 full. And moved on, with a smile.
> 
> The reason I mention this is - we really have had no conflict over this situation. Largely because we've both made a real effort to ensure our partner feels loved and well cared for.
> 
> Your issue isn't that your H has some sexual issues. It's that he isn't working around them in a kind and considerate manner.
> 
> And - FWIW - M2 has seen multiple doctors including a couple specialists about her condition. She has tried a bunch of creams. The only thing she hasn't done is surgery. And given the success rate of that surgery - I agree with and support that choice.


That is actually a very nice and touching success story. I mean that it really shows what married means. Not giving up, understanding each others needs, and trying your best to do what you can with what you have. All part of the "commitment" part of marriage.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious, you know I think it is cute myself, but I wish you wouldn't call your period "cranky week" because I fear you also say this to your H and allow him to call it that, too. The reason this is a problem is because you are trying to get your husband to "become the man you want him to be", and calling a woman's period "cranky week" is definitely not the sign of a mature man. If he wasn't so immature in general, I don't think there'd be a problem. But because he's already a little squeamish about your body and your sexuality in general, and very immature, I think you should make an effort to begin speaking only in mature terms and ways that make sex sound seductive, appealing, and very ADULT. Our periods are most certainly part of our lives and our sex lives, for so many reasons. It is fine to acknowledge that those weeks of your life hurt your body and make you cranky, but acknowledge also that the reason those weeks exist is because you are a mature adult woman of child-bearing age...ie: the type of women who should be having a lot of sex.


Eh. It is just a name he started calling it. We have names for everything. We are silly people.  It doesn't really bother me. It was named that because I get cranky about not getting sex. Just like week 2 is called "horny week." lol

But if you think it might help I'll be an adult and stop calling it that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> AP,
> Sorry but the script below - while fair and honest - won't - work.
> 
> CW,
> He knows what you want. He KNOWS why you bought the vibrator.
> 
> It is very unhealthy to repeatedly, repetitiously, repeat requests.
> 
> When you do so, the subtext is that you are telling him that it's ok to ignore you.
> 
> If he brings up the vibrator again, get HIM to talk. You want to get into his head. You don't need to say anything as you are an open book to him.
> 
> That said if I were you I would totally stop:
> 1. initiating sex
> 2. any sexual behaviors or comments - no jokes - no revealing outfits
> 
> When he initiates:
> - No BJ foreplay - he can either 69 or you can touch him with your hand. This prevents him from being selfish in the give and take of oral.
> - Immediate shutdown if he exhibits any crap behavior such as acting disinterested, falling asleep, making comments that reflect a lack of sincere desire to please YOU
> 
> The shutdown is not conversational. You just lean back, tilt your head (in surprise), briefly shake your head to convey that his conduct is a 'no go', and get out of bed and get dressed.
> 
> When you get the whole bullshlt apology routine you just say one thing: do NOT do that again
> 
> But you don't get back in bed, and you don't talk about how you feel. He knows. He isn't nice about this type stuff.
> 
> Later you accept his apology, but you don't get back into sex the same day. You stick with: Let's see how we feel tomorrow.


I don't know if I've made it clear but I HAVE stopped initiating and being overtly sexual.

I make him come to me now. 

If I don't think he is going to put in sufficient effort to make me feel loved, and desired then I turn him down. 

I also don't give him any oral unless he is giving to me first. I also don't ask for oral. 

If he starts pulling stupid crap like falling asleep or acting bored I tell him no and we don't have sex. 

I've been doing this for a while now. Of course I slip up sometimes, but I would say I stick with it most of the time.

It has improved our sex life. He has been initiating, he has been flirting more, and trying to do things to enjoy.

I've been getting oral as foreplay, and he's been trying to dirty talk, keep things interesting, etc.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I would say he is learning and improving very slowly.

Some small things I have noticed:

When his friend stays the night I no longer have to ask him to sleep with me. When I go to bed he kisses me goodnight and says he will be in, in a little bit. He always climbs into our bed to fall asleep now, even if it's 3am. Which makes me feel like a priority over his friend. 

Along those same lines he will hold my hand, snuggle me, and kiss me when his friends are around. He will even sneak some boob grabs when they get up to use the rest room. Which is a big difference compared to when he refused to even hold my hand a while back.

No more asking for quickies or blow jobs, or anything where he is the only one to get off. He makes a conscious effort to make sure I am satisfied first, every sexual encounter.

He has initiated sex earlier in the day for a later time. Then followed through with it. ie. "Be ready with candles when I get home, and we will go at it, BEFORE dinner." 

He spoons me while we sleep.

He jokes about me being horny as usual. But now most of the jokes are in a good light, and followed by a smile. They make me feel good rather than ashamed of my libido. ie: "Your so cute when your always horny." Rather than "You are such a horny pervert." 

These are just some of the things that have changed. So don't think everything is bad and just spiraling down in endless circles. There is improvement.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And as just a little gush. Yesterday we had some good old fashioned foreplay and making out on the couch followed by the fastest orgasm I've ever had with him. I'm not even kidding that we both lost it within 2 minutes after PIV started. I was almost embarrassed at my lack of control.  We both just looked at each other like WTH just happened. Then we started cracking up laughing.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, 

Glad to see you can list the improvements. Have you asked him how he feels about the differences? It would be nice to know if he thinks things are better for him too.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot to add. My vibrator got here early on Saturday. When his friend was here.  I am very glad he didn't ask what was in the box.

I haven't gotten time to open it yet, but I'm heading home early from work today to check it out.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh I forgot to add. My vibrator got here early on Saturday. When his friend was here.  I am very glad he didn't ask what was in the box.
> 
> I haven't gotten time to open it yet, but I'm heading home early from work today to check it out.


Oh cool. If it is battery powered better stop and pick up some batteries.  And if it plugs in make sure the electric bill is paid.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Oh cool. If it is battery powered better stop and pick up some batteries.  And if it plugs in make sure the electric bill is paid.


But the best ones need a trip to Lowe's for that diesel backup generator


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I did in fact take it for a test drive. 

I must say I was a little disappointed. Firstly is was huge. Way bigger than I thought it would be. But it wasn't as strong as I was expecting. Maybe because it was new, or the sound was distracting me but it took a lot longer than my "normal" Like 10 or 15 minutes compared to my 5 minutes.

I won't give up on it yet though. lol. It seems like a good option if I want a more relaxing, and longer session. But I think I will stick to the shower for my quick and easy.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You should have gotten the Magic Wand Curious..........LOL!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Were the batteries in the right way? :lol:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> You should have gotten the Magic Wand Curious..........LOL!


I know it! Dang it. I kept hearing horror stories on how rough it was. But I think I like that. 

Mine comes with a return policy. I wonder if I should send it back and get the magic wand? :scratchhead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Were the batteries in the right way? :lol:


It's rechargeable.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Eh upon further investigation of the magic wand, I simply can't afford it. Oh well. This one will do. I shouldn't spoil myself with super high power anyway. lol


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hum .. you can return it? Really? I would have guessed that it was a no refunds or exchanges item as it is pretty personal in it's use.

Personally, I would suggest that you give it a few more tries. If your mind is clouded with thoughts in the back of your head, "bigger than I wanted", and "makes noise", then it may make having an orgasm harder. After you get familiar with it, it may do the job better. I am just guessing.

What does H say about it now? Has he inspected it? Has he asked about how it feels? And most importantly did he ask if he can join in when you use it?

Too bad there is not a store you can go to. A place where you can "try before you buy" :rofl:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Hum .. you can return it? Really? I would have guessed that it was a no refunds or exchanges item as it is pretty personal in it's use.
> 
> Personally, I would suggest that you give it a few more tries. If your mind is clouded with thoughts in the back of your head, "bigger than I wanted", and "makes noise", then it may make having an orgasm harder. After you get familiar with it, it may do the job better. I am just guessing.
> 
> What does H say about it now? Has he inspected it? Has he asked about how it feels? And most importantly did he ask if he can join in when you use it?
> 
> Too bad there is not a store you can go to. A place where you can "try before you buy" :rofl:


Yes. It has a return policy. I assume they would just destroy it and not resell it... ew.

That is what I was thinking too, maybe it was just because I'm not used to it. I'm sure I will get more comfortable after a while. 

He hasn't said anything, or tried to look at it. He did make it clear before it arrived that it will absolutely not be joining us in bed. Which is fine. I like him better anyway.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have a plug in but it is just a conair 'muscle massager' that one can pick up at Walgreens.

When I was your age I could get off with water as well. It doesn't sound like you have any problem getting off alone quickly.

My results are opposite yours. Manually 15-20 min and by vibrator never not than 10. So for me a vibrator cuts down on time, although I feel the manual ones end up being stronger. 

For me, I don't have much success with anything weaker than electric when it comes to vibrators. Not even rechargeable does the trick in under 30 min it seems.

I used to lament this but oh well. Maybe I do take longer than other ladies but this need for intensity is mirrored in almost every other area of my life. Eating, drinking, even paint choices - I always prefer the intense. I've accepted that's part of who I am. Any man that wants to get me off is going to have to rise to the occasion, so to speak. Sadly that is not my DH.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I used to lament this but oh well. Maybe I do take longer than other ladies but this need for intensity is mirrored in almost every other area of my life. Eating, drinking, even paint choices - I always prefer the intense. I've accepted that's part of who I am. Any man that wants to get me off is going to have to rise to the occasion, so to speak. Sadly that is not my DH.


I don't even try manual with fingers, I don't have the patience or the time. If I'm going solo, I just want it done asap. It's not a sensual thing, or a sexual thing, I just want the quick release so I'm not a crazy sex maniac. Which is funny because with husband I'd prefer it to take as long as possible, and I always feel like it was too short.

I think it is great that you accepted it's just how you are. I wish I could say the same. I still feel really bad when I take a long time. Last night it was taking forever and I just couldn't get there. (Just the time of the month.) Husband feels bad when he can't get me there, and takes it personally. Which in turn makes me feel bad because I couldn't perform for him, when really it shouldn't be that big of a deal. 

I'm sorry your husband is not the lover you need. I guess we just picked bad.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Maybe you should allow it to be sexual and sensual when your alone. It might help you work out your own sexuality.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Eh. It is just a name he started calling it. We have names for everything. We are silly people.  It doesn't really bother me. It was named that because I get cranky about not getting sex. Just like week 2 is called "horny week." lol
> 
> But if you think it might help I'll be an adult and stop calling it that.


Calling it "cranky week" may make him feel he can disregard anything you say during that week cause your just "cranky". I've always hated the implication that a womans requests could be ignored cause she's just hormonal. In that attitude even if the guy "tries" to help you out it is with the idea that you are unreasonable.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Calling it "cranky week" may make him feel he can disregard anything you say during that week cause your just "cranky". I've always hated the implication that a womans requests could be ignored cause she's just hormonal. In that attitude even if the guy "tries" to help you out it is with the idea that you are unreasonable.


Unfortunately, this is often perpetuated by women...kind of a Get Out of Jail Free card...along with pregnancy.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Unfortunately, this is often perpetuated by women...kind of a Get Out of Jail Free card...along with pregnancy.


And I've always hated it! I understand sometimes one of us is more sensitive but we still need to show others basic respect. I personally may tell him I need extra grace today but I NEVER expect him (or myself) to put up with complete disrespect.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*yawn* 6 days since sex, 6 days since a real kiss.

Not once has it been brought up or mentioned. 

Whatever, I am over it. I'm feeling surprisingly nonchalant. Although I have been kind of blah, because I haven't felt good. 

I fondled him last night a little while we were falling asleep. He pulled back and said, "Hey, trouble." So I just took my hand away and rolled over. 

I bet he will initiate tonight, just because It's been so long. I'm to the point where sex sounds unappealing. It's so hard when we haven't kissed or touched for 6 days, and then suddenly I'm just suppose to want to have sex. I need some flirting before hand, I need some warm up time. He just doesn't understand that.

If only during period week we would snuggle, and make out, and tease a bit, once it was over we'd be all over each other. But instead I always find myself very turned off by this time. 

Oh well. Such is life.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry that he has been so distant in the physical regard. But from your tone, you sound like you are not really ok with this. Are you actually ok with this distant time every month for the rest of your life? 

Are you just "comfortable" because you know what to expect from him this time of the month? Or are you just letting it go this time because you think it might change in the future? Do you think you can change him? 

I think what I am getting at is that this sort of behavior may never change. And as others have pointed out, you don't want to be looking at this 20 years from now and wish you had done something about it. 

You only live once. And to have to go through a week every month of not feeling loved physically is not what anybody would want. 

On the other hand, I can see how the predictability of his behavior would leave you feeling comfortable. You know what's next, and so you are ok with waiting it out. You even think he will initiate tonight. So you are ready for a better three weeks, and then back to the disappointing week again.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Sorry that he has been so distant in the physical regard. But from your tone, you sound like you are not really ok with this. Are you actually ok with this distant time every month for the rest of your life?
> 
> Are you just "comfortable" because you know what to expect from him this time of the month? Or are you just letting it go this time because you think it might change in the future? Do you think you can change him?
> 
> I think what I am getting at is that this sort of behavior may never change. And as others have pointed out, you don't want to be looking at this 20 years from now and wish you had done something about it.
> 
> You only live once. And to have to go through a week every month of not feeling loved physically is not what anybody would want.
> 
> On the other hand, I can see how the predictability of his behavior would leave you feeling comfortable. You know what's next, and so you are ok with waiting it out. You even think he will initiate tonight. So you are ready for a better three weeks, and then back to the disappointing week again.


I'm not sure how I feel. Right now I don't care. But I think that is because I've tried getting angry, I've tried being sad. Nothing seems to work, so why keep trying. Logically I know it's only a week, and I'll live without any physical touch. So I'm just not letting my heart get involved.

But being held at arms length for one week a month is for sure not my ideal. I can go without sex. But I still miss intimacy. I just don't know how to change the situation, or even broach the subject in a way that I haven't before. I'm out of ideas. 

At this point I feel like I can't change things, and crying or yelling isn't going to help. So I might as well put on my big girl panties and get over it.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Only 6 days? We're back up to about 6 weeks without again.... After the first week or two of hearing "too full", "too sleepy", "too XYZ" my defensive walls start going up. The walls just keep getting taller as the weeks pass and bringing them down becomes harder and harder.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes 6 days. I know it sounds petty. After only 3 or 4 days I'm already building walls, and getting defensive. I can't help it. I have in innate need to have fulfilling sex! And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It's how I am. 

6 weeks would be beyond my limit. No joke. I am reasonable where I can't see divorcing a man just because he won't have sex with me every other day. But over a week... 2 weeks... 6 weeks... That is just beyond my capabilities, and I would decide we were incompatible, and be forming an exit plan.

Sex is important to me.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Is there a clear understanding between you two that touching, cuddling, and affection during this period will not lead to sex? If he thinks that there is a chance, he will back off. But if there is a full clear understanding that it is safe, then he should step up to he plate.

Another possibility is that he does not want to be teased. That is he does not want to get worked up and not have a release. You mentioned at he does not masturbate, so he would have to hold it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious,
> 
> Is there a clear understanding between you two that touching, cuddling, and affection during this period will not lead to sex? If he thinks that there is a chance, he will back off. But if there is a full clear understanding that it is safe, then he should step up to he plate.
> 
> Another possibility is that he does not want to be teased. That is he does not want to get worked up and not have a release. You mentioned at he does not masturbate, so he would have to hold it.


Yes. I've stopped pushing him. But maybe I should tell him _again._ 

I feel no sympathy for him getting worked up and no release. If he wants to masturbate instead of having sex with his young, beautiful, and willing wife then he can go right ahead, and have fun all by his self. Just don't expect me to be standing around waiting for him when he gets tired of it. 

Also. I've told him over and over again that I'd be delighted to give him blow jobs during this time if he is willing to give me a release as well in any way. I don't care how. In the shower, with a tampon in, with the vibe, etc. But he absolutely refuses, so it's on him. 

He says he needs this week to recharge, and relax from sexual stuff.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. I've stopped pushing him. *But maybe I should tell him again.*
> 
> I feel no sympathy for him getting worked up and no release. If he wants to masturbate instead of having sex with his young, beautiful, and willing wife then he can go right ahead, and have fun all by his self. Just don't expect me to be standing around waiting for him when he gets tired of it.
> 
> Also. I've told him over and over again that I'd be delighted to give him blow jobs during this time if he is willing to give me a release as well in any way. I don't care how. I'm the shower, with a tampon in, with the vibe, etc. But he absolutely refuses, so it's on him.
> 
> He says he needs this week to recharge, and relax from sexual stuff.


Thirty seven thousandth time's a charm right?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot to share something yesterday.

I don't wear makeup, like ever. In the past few years I've started painting my toes. That's it. I don't own any lipstick, eye shadow, etc...

Husband has always supported me with this, and said he doesn't like the "painted look." He likes all natural. Blah blah.

Well I thought it would be fun to get some and just wear it a few times and see if I liked it. I asked him about it and he said, "it might help you get more action."

Now it just feels like another hoop to jump through to try and win his attention. Why is he suddenly saying maybe he would be more attracted to me if I wore makeup, when I haven't worn it the entire 6 years we have been together and it never bothered him before?

I would still like to try some out. But I didn't want to make this about him! Now I am torn if I should just forget it, or go ahead and get some like I wanted. It always seems like he comes up with some scheme to excuse him for not wanting to have sex. I wanted to try makeup for me, but he is taking the fun out of it. Arg.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Thirty seven thousandth time's a charm right?


 That's why I italicized "again." 

Sarcasm.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry CW, I didn't mean to make it sound petty at all! I meant that tongue in cheek. 

I'm glad you're being so much more proactive about this problem than I was at your age. I didn't know how to deal with the issues and these forums haven't been around as long as my marriage. I wish I would have figured all this out 10+ years ago. Heck, I wish I had this figured out now. I think I do, but the reality is a bitter pill to swallow.

I'm afraid that unless my wife finds an hormonally inspired epiphany like GettingIt I'm doomed to either living with it or divorcing. 

The best we can do in the meantime is keep looking for the an overlooked outlier issue that is fixable. If it's physiology holding our partners back from us I think we are doomed.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I'm sorry CW, I didn't mean to make it sound petty at all! I meant that tongue in cheek.
> 
> I'm glad you're being so much more proactive about this problem than I was at your age. I didn't know how to deal with the issues and these forums haven't been around as long as my marriage. I wish I would have figured all this out 10+ years ago. Heck, I wish I had this figured out now. I think I do, but the reality is a bitter pill to swallow.
> 
> I'm afraid that unless my wife finds an hormonally inspired epiphany like GettingIt I'm doomed to either living with it or divorcing.
> 
> The best we can do in the meantime is keep looking for the an overlooked outlier issue that is fixable. If it's physiology holding our partners back from us I think we are doomed.


Oh I know that! I just feel bad complaining sometimes about not having sex for a week, when there are lots of people on TAM who have gone years. It makes me feel petty. 

Yep. That's where I'm at too.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

That is what I was afraid of - needs a week to recharge. Or in other words, needs a break from sex all together.

Problem is, that the break from sex also includes physical touch and kisses an such. That is just not right in my opinion. However I go through the same for other reasons (I want touch, she does not).

Sort of blows me away how you can love somebody and not want to touch them as much as possible. But that is how it is.

Best of luck tonight.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Curious,
> 
> That is what I was afraid of - needs a week to recharge. Or in other words, needs a break from sex all together.
> 
> Problem is, that the break from sex also includes physical touch and kisses an such. That is just not right in my opinion. However I go through the same for other reasons (I want touch, she does not).
> 
> Sort of blows me away how you can love somebody and not want to touch them as much as possible. But that is how it is.
> 
> Best of luck tonight.


Yes. To translate to him, he wants a week off a month where he doesn't have to give or do anything sexual or physical. And I'm pretty sure that includes kissing, most touching, and flirting. 

He will still snuggle me, rub my back, kiss my forehead, but I usually have to initiate it. Non sexual touches only. 

As for tonight, I'm pretty sure it's off the table.  

He was kind of beating around the bush about no sex. He has planned out the evening to include a house project, and then go play poker with friends. (I'm included.) But reading between the lines, it means there won't be time for sex. 

Could I initiate and perhaps he would say yes, and squeeze it in? Maybe. But I'm not playing his stupid games anymore. I'm sure he is waiting for me to initiate and come begging for sex. No thanks, I'll pass.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Why would you not have time for sex? Can't you just go to sleep a little later or, perhaps, wake up a little earlier? Sneak it in before the poker game maybe?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Why would you not have time for sex? Can't you just go to sleep a little later or, perhaps, wake up a little earlier? Sneak it in before the poker game maybe?


For some, it would be easy to make time for sex. But, reading between the lines, I suspect it would be a setup for rejection.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Why would you not have time for sex? Can't you just go to sleep a little later or, perhaps, wake up a little earlier? Sneak it in before the poker game maybe?


Yes, time could be made.

But only if I initiate it, and push for it. Which I refuse to do. 

If it is not important enough for husband to make a priority, then why should I beg for 30 minutes of his time? 

Usually when he tells me all the stuff we have to do tonight, that is his subtle way of informing me, "hey no sex tonight" without actually having to say it and be the bad guy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> For some, it would be easy to make time for sex. But, reading between the lines, I suspect it would be a setup for rejection.


Bingo.

This is his way of saying no to sex in advance. Just like a woman would say, "oh I have a headache, I don't think I will feel good later." Hint hint. 

It's all just smoke and mirrors, and bull crap.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's really difficult for me to fathom a 20 something year old man trying to get out of sex. Most guys that age are doing everything in their power to get sex! LOL! Not trying to make light of your situation Curious, my heart breaks for you; however, your husband is an odd bird.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> It's really difficult for me to fathom a 20 something year old man trying to get out of sex. Most guys that age are doing everything in their power to get sex! LOL! Not trying to make light of your situation Curious, my heart breaks for you; however, your husband is an odd bird.


I NEVER imagined this would be a problem in my marriage. I never heard of a guy not wanting sex. Not until my own 20 something husband started to turn me down. After some digging, apparently it is more common then people are led to believe. Just lots of shaming, and keeping it hush hush, prevents it from more heard of I guess. 

But it is a real problem. I found that out about 2 days into the honeymoon. He was already turning me down then. I should have seen the red flag, but it was too late by then I guess.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I NEVER imagined this would be a problem in my marriage. I never heard of a guy not wanting sex. Not until my own 20 something husband started to turn me down. After some digging, apparently it is more common then people are led to believe. Just lots of shaming, and keeping it hush hush, prevents it from more heard of I guess.
> 
> But it is a real problem. I found that out about 2 days into the honeymoon. He was already turning me down then. I should have seen the red flag, but it was too late by then I guess.


I'm so sorry Curious, I really am.... hugs!!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I'm so sorry Curious, I really am.... hugs!!!


I know.  Thanks.

I'm not looking for pity, I just enjoy ranting. I have no one to talk to in the real world.

All my married friends are all just so happy and in love, they wouldn't understand at all. 

Besides I wouldn't want all of our mutual friends to know about our sexual problems. I feel like that would hurt my husband's feelings tremendously, and also be very disrespectful. 

So it's nice just to let it out on here.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Which reminds me. I think I have talked about it in the past, but one of our friends always enjoyed flirting with my husband, and just playing it up a lot. It was like the laughing stock of our social group, and it was very rude.

Well she got married last week, and I find it hilarious that she is super jealous. She made her now husband delete every contact in his phone that was a girl, and also delete his facebook. She won't let him even speak politely to girls unless she is there.

I wonder how she would feel if I hung on him, and sat next to him, and flirted with him like she has done many many times with my husband... 

I was tempted, but I guess I'll be the bigger person. lol.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

She sounds rather childish Curious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> She sounds rather childish Curious.


Amen. She is.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Bingo.
> 
> This is his way of saying no to sex in advance. Just like a woman would say, "oh I have a headache, I don't think I will feel good later." Hint hint.
> 
> It's all just smoke and mirrors, and bull crap.


Truth is, you can always find time for sex if you really want it. Even a busy life, you can squeeze it in from time to time.

But when one of the two does not desire it much, then there are thousands of things to do (ironing, getting to the next level on a video game .. and the list goes on forever).

Just sucks when your expectations are shattered after making something permanent.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Truth is, you can always find time for sex if you really want it. Even a busy life, you can squeeze it in from time to time.
> 
> But when one of the two does not desire it much, then there are thousands of things to do (ironing, getting to the next level on a video game .. and the list goes on forever).
> 
> Just sucks when your expectations are shattered after making something permanent.


:iagree:


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Truth is, you can always find time for sex if you really want it. Even a busy life, you can squeeze it in from time to time.
> 
> But when one of the two does not desire it much, then there are thousands of things to do (ironing, getting to the next level on a video game .. and the list goes on forever).
> 
> Just sucks when your expectations are shattered after making something permanent.


After coming to TAM I've come to understand a lot more about the differences in libidos. I didn't understand anything about low libido before. I get it now that her body doesn't give her the natural spark to jump me that mine does. 

What makes me mad/sad is the continued avoidance of intimacy. She may not have the natural spark but after all of the discussions about desire, frequency, initiation, etc I can only conclude now that it's a conscious choice to avoid sex.

As the old saying goes "Don't listen to what people say, watch what they do."


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> After coming to TAM I've come to understand a lot more about the differences in libidos. I didn't understand anything about low libido before. I get it now that her body doesn't give her the natural spark to jump me that mine does.
> 
> What makes me mad/sad is the continued avoidance of intimacy. She may not have the natural spark but after all of the discussions about desire, frequency, initiation, etc I can only conclude now that it's a conscious choice to avoid sex.
> 
> As the old saying goes "Don't listen to what people say, watch what they do."


Yes, I am still learning too. Hard to understand the LD side at times. The hardest part for me to understand is why would you push off hugs, kisses and touching (I.e. Non sex stuff) when you know how much it means? That is why cut off the one you love so much? Only thing I can figure is that the LD person is afraid they will be roped into sex if they offer a hug.

I don't understand why she gets upset at me for feeling bad after being rejected multiple times. Like I am not entitled to feel bad after being rejected so much? Like "why must you feel bad when you are rejected?" I just don't get it.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In my case it's her avoidance of sex, not all closeness. Actually, she usually loves all of the usual hugging, kissing, butt grabbing, or whatever. She just has an off switch for sex and when it goes off I don't know whether it's coming back on for days, weeks, or months. She's in the LD group where "sex isn't important and never has been".

I definitely feel for you about being rejected. No matter how much you intellectualize it, it's hard not to feel the sting especially when you're worked up. Those horny hormones are also heightening your emotions.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I just don't get it.

Husband hates it when I grab at him, or grope him, or even seductively try to play with his man business. He wiggles, pushes me away, tells me no, gets upset.

All day he will push me away when I try to flirt or start something, and then a few hours later he is like, "You can go take a shower if you want."

So I called him out. "Why do you think I'd want to have sex now after you've been rejecting my advances all day?"

He said he wasn't rejecting. He let me "play" for a couple minutes before he pushed me away. He felt that he was being generous. Sigh.

He says he doesn't like me touching him. "It makes him squirm. It is sensitive."

Uh yeah. Isn't it suppose to? Normal people like that. Ugh. 

I just don't understand. Instead of feeling good, or making him aroused, it turns him off. He relates it to tickling. How is that suppose to make me feel? How am I suppose to turn my man on if I can't touch him?

It is also a turn off for me when I think I'm being sexy and he is shuddering (and not the good kind) at my touch.

It doesn't matter how I touch him. It can be aggressive, it can be slow and sensual, it can be light. I always gets the same reaction. When we are having sex he seems to enjoy being touched and it doesn't make him "squirm."

In fact I was so upset the other day that the entire time we had sex I didn't put a hand on him. He didn't seem to notice. 

No matter how he touches me, even if he IS tickling or it is non sexual, if he gets anywhere below the belt my mind starts wandering.

It makes me just never want to touch him again!


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Husband hates it when I grab at him, or grope him, or even seductively try to play with his man business. He wiggles, pushes me away, tells me no, gets upset.
> 
> He says he doesn't like me touching him. "It makes him squirm. It is sensitive."
> 
> I just don't understand. Instead of feeling good, or making him aroused, it turns him off. He relates it to tickling. How is that suppose to make me feel? How am I suppose to turn my man on if I can't touch him?
> 
> It doesn't matter how I touch him. It can be aggressive, it can be slow and sensual, it can be light. I always gets the same reaction. When we are having sex he seems to enjoy being touched and it doesn't make him "squirm."
> 
> No matter how he touches me, even if he IS tickling or it is non sexual, if he gets anywhere below the belt my mind starts wandering.


I guess I didn't separate out crotch grabbing from the rest of the general affections my wife does enjoy. She wants hugging, kissing, snuggling, but yeah if I go for the fun zone it's exactly as you describe above.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Nothing says "I'm DTF" like a crotch grab! :rofl: Since I've come to realize her LD nature I've pretty much cut those out.  She's just not on that wavelength except once every few weeks/months libido appears.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey, what can I say.

I love my crotch grabbing.


----------



## FrenchFry

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is one of those LD things I relate to.

I hate crotch grabbing. Hate it. If I'm thinking about anything else, it's a huge, unwelcome distraction.

Some people are just wired differently. On its own, it's not a personal affront, and like your husband, it's more than welcome when I'm actually thinking sexual thoughts. It's just not a turn-on to me.

Other things are. I have much better feelings towards my husband when he concentrates on those and doesn't ignore my feelings on the things that are a turn-off.

(musings from a person who is lost in thought. )


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks FrenchFry! I always love to hear the views from "the other side". I wonder if there are many HD's that don't like crotch grabbing at all, or LD's that do?


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm LD and I hate crouch grabbing and when hubby goes for the breasts out of nowhere, also the butt.

Try to engage me mentally first...


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



techmom said:


> I'm LD and I hate crouch grabbing and when hubby goes for the breasts out of nowhere, also the butt.
> 
> Try to engage me mentally first...


At least my wife loves the butt grab, giving and receiving. So there is that at least. :lol:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



FrenchFry said:


> This is one of those LD things I relate to.
> 
> I hate crotch grabbing. Hate it. If I'm thinking about anything else, it's a huge, unwelcome distraction.
> 
> Some people are just wired differently. On its own, it's not a personal affront, and like your husband, it's more than welcome when I'm actually thinking sexual thoughts. It's just not a turn-on to me.
> 
> Other things are. I have much better feelings towards my husband when he concentrates on those and doesn't ignore my feelings on the things that are a turn-off.
> 
> (musings from a person who is lost in thought. )


Thanks for the reminder that we aren't all wired the same!

I will have to keep that in mind, and try to keep my hands to myself.  I already try, but sometimes I just can't seem to help myself. 

What helps your husband turn you on?

I honestly don't know what turns my husband on. I don't think he knows either. :scratchhead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



techmom said:


> I'm LD and I hate crouch grabbing and when hubby goes for the breasts out of nowhere, also the butt.
> 
> Try to engage me mentally first...


See. My husband grabs my boobs often and very roughly at any given time.

So I find it kind of hypocritical that he hates when I grab him, but no matter how many times I help him to be gentler when he grabs me, he doesn't listen.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

There's this thing that M2 says. 

You GET me. 

You know what though. The reason I GET M2 isn't about brain power. It isn't some Mensa trick. The reason is acceptance. 

When M2 says: I love ..., or I hate ... - I just accept that. 

When M2 said she hates being groped. 

Let's be real here. Who the fvck gropes you after you've said you hate it. Who does anything that is physical - to you - after you've said you hate it. 






techmom said:


> I'm LD and I hate crouch grabbing and when hubby goes for the breasts out of nowhere, also the butt.
> 
> Try to engage me mentally first...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I just don't get it.
> 
> Husband hates it when I grab at him, or grope him, or even seductively try to play with his man business. He wiggles, pushes me away, tells me no, gets upset.
> 
> All day he will push me away when I try to flirt or start something, and then a few hours later he is like, "You can go take a shower if you want."
> 
> So I called him out. "Why do you think I'd want to have sex now after you've been rejecting my advances all day?"
> 
> He said he wasn't rejecting. He let me "play" for a couple minutes before he pushed me away. He felt that he was being generous. Sigh.
> 
> He says he doesn't like me touching him. "It makes him squirm. It is sensitive."
> 
> Uh yeah. Isn't it suppose to? Normal people like that. Ugh.
> 
> I just don't understand. Instead of feeling good, or making him aroused, it turns him off. He relates it to tickling. How is that suppose to make me feel? How am I suppose to turn my man on if I can't touch him?
> 
> It is also a turn off for me when I think I'm being sexy and he is shuddering (and not the good kind) at my touch.
> 
> It doesn't matter how I touch him. It can be aggressive, it can be slow and sensual, it can be light. I always gets the same reaction. When we are having sex he seems to enjoy being touched and it doesn't make him "squirm."
> 
> In fact I was so upset the other day that the entire time we had sex I didn't put a hand on him. He didn't seem to notice.
> 
> No matter how he touches me, even if he IS tickling or it is non sexual, if he gets anywhere below the belt my mind starts wandering.
> 
> It makes me just never want to touch him again!


Curious,

Generally I am supportive of you. But this time I don't think you are going to like at all what I am about to say. I hope you try to understand what I say before you blast me off the planet. But here goes.

Calm down, take a deep breath, and look at what happened:

You groped him and he said he did not like it. But you persisted. Understandable, you wanted something and refused to believe that he did not want the touch. Ok, he is being a LD guy without understanding your feelings, however you are not paying attention to his feelings (or lack of) either.

Then he says you can shower to get ready for sex. However you then reject him (yup, you rejected him). Now he might have been offering because he was feeling obligated. However the fact stands that your turned down an opportunity for sex. Something you say you never do. Even a HD person has the right to turn down sex. I just want to make it clear that I am not judging you for this. Just pointing it out for you to see.

You though your touch would turn him on. But for some reason it does not. So you need to explore other methods to turn him on. Perhaps you need to sit down and talk about what might turn him on. Perhaps he does not know himself. But he has indicated that it is not touching private parts. Gotta say though, what a shame!

Could be part of his upbringing - intimate touching is reserved only for the act of sex itself. Other times it is not acceptable. This is totally a guess.

Then, the other day you did not touch him while having sex and were disappointed that he did not notice. And you got mad. When you are having sex with him and touching him, it is for your pleasure too. So, you found out that he is not wired to getting off with your hands on him. But obviously you get him off other ways. So you have to accept that fact. And you can continue to get your pleasure by putting your hands on him. In other words, not touching him while having sex with him was a bit childish in a way because it was just your way of pouting. At best it was an experiment to discover who liked your wondering hands more - you or him. I know, it is really hard to try to comprehend that your touch does not send him through the roof. But it is clear that other things you do send him through the roof.

Yes, we are all wired differently. And you have to come to respect that fact.

You two should talk and come to an agreement about the touching groping thing. Somehow, your love for each other should give you the desire to make each other happy.


----------



## FrenchFry

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So, a) I stalk this thread. If I haven't already said so, now it's out there. Hi. 

b) I'm not truly LD. I call myself MD but that is only in relation to my super HD husband. 

c) He can't help himself either sometimes. I see it in his face, I literally watch him go from 30 something responsible adult to 12 year old wanting to touch a boobie. That part I find really endearing and so I accept that part of him to a point.

To a point is important. It's about balance, and from what I read in your thread, you are still working on the balance. Part of that is I am crazy open with what turns me on and off. I'm always happy to talk, to give demonstrations etc. In kind, I always listen to my husband. It's only fair, but when he stops listening to me, I stop listening to him--fair is fair. If was you, I would be as annoying with my gropes as possible until he started touching me in ways that I enjoyed. I'm mean like that, however.

As we have gotten to know each other better and with our awesome talk and demonstrations, he now realizes when I am in a "do NOT touch me" frame of mind and when I am willing to indulge him. Likewise, he has listened and respects my "do NOT touch me" state and will now grope me in ways I find enjoyable when I am more receptive.

Techmom has my number. I like to be stimulated mentally first--which is remarkably easy and thus I cannot spill my secrets lest someone kryptonites me.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



FrenchFry said:


> This is one of those LD things I relate to.
> 
> I hate crotch grabbing. Hate it. If I'm thinking about anything else, it's a huge, unwelcome distraction.
> 
> Some people are just wired differently. On its own, it's not a personal affront, and like your husband, it's more than welcome when I'm actually thinking sexual thoughts. It's just not a turn-on to me.


:iagree: Same here.

I don't like to be groped out of nowhere and only enjoy it if I'm thinking sexual thoughts. My husband knows this and doesn't do it, since he knows it will have a negative effect(not a turn). Over the last several months he has really learned how to turn me on, as I have let him know quickly what I like and don't like. An example being that he knows I love to be kissed all over. He'll come up behind me, move my hair, and start kissing my neck. 

Unfortunately though, my husband isn't as straight forward with me on what he likes/turns him on. 

It has been a long work in progress, but the sex is getting better and better.


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As a CSA victim I relate tickling with abuse. My 3 year old does it because he thinks it's funny. My wife doesn't tickle me because she knows I don't like it. Everything else is fair game. We both play a bit of grab a$$. I'll cup her boob at bedtime, and occasionally try and slide in a feel during a hug, but with kids around there isn't really any out and out groping.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Whoa. Thanks for all the input guys.  You guys rock. (And welcome FrenchFry. Stalk away!)

I want to clarify some things.

First I think I used too strong a word. He has never said he HATES it. He just said he doesn't like it.

Also I know I should respect that, and keep my hands off him. But I am super touchy, and that is one of my favorite things to do. He also gropes my boobs a LOT. So I really don't think he should be able to say I can't grope him, when he gropes me daily. But maybe I'm in the wrong?

Is there a better way to go about this? I don't want to never be able to touch my husband sexually. But I also don't want to not take his feelings into consideration. I'm not always grabbing. Sometimes we are watching a movie and I just let my hands wander under the blanket. I'm not being rough. Should I ask him first? "Honey, may I touch your penis?" Just sounds very lame.

FightForHer we DID have sex that day. But we talked first. I didn't refuse him, I just wanted to be clear to him that it hurts my feelings when he rejects my advances all day then suddenly wants sex. 

I also realize not touching him during sex (this was a different day, before the talk) was childish. It was the first time after my period and a week without sex and he was just so blah and whatever about sex. It ticked me off, and I was pouting. 

And nothing really sends them through the roof. He has an orgasm yes, but they aren't very enthusiastic. Lots of switching positions and "Does this feel good? Do I need to move?" from me. He goes limp several times over the course of a session and has to be "primed by hand" by one of us. He is never super hard, and sometimes I wonder if we will even be able to keep him hard enough to finish either of us. 

Honestly sex just seems like something he tolerates. That may not be the case in his mind, but I read him that way usually.  He never shows a passion, or a real desire. 

I wish he would just go get his dang T levels tested. We've been sleeping, spooning nightly, and I haven't felt any morning wood at all. Something has got to be up... well not up.

This just isn't what I wanted my sex life to be like.


----------



## FrenchFry

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Whoa. Thanks for all the input guys.  You guys rock. (And welcome FrenchFry. Stalk away!)
> 
> 
> First I think I used too strong a word. He has never said he HATES it. He just said he doesn't like it.
> 
> Also I know I should respect that, and keep my hands off him. But I am super touchy, and that is one of my favorite things to do. He also gropes my boobs a LOT.* So I really don't think he should be able to say I can't grope him, when he gropes me daily. *But maybe I'm in the wrong?



To the bolded: If you do not like the groping then no, he shouldn't do it. If you like it (or just needs adjustments) then don't deprive yourself of something you like because he doesn't like the reciprocal.




> I don't want to never be able to touch my husband sexually. But I also don't want to not take his feelings into consideration.


If you are observing that your touches make him squirm and run away--you aren't touching him sexually _to him_. I do believe he has to be way more attuned to what is a pleasing sexual touch to him (and share it with you) but he's making it clear that you aren't doing it now. 

It may be he is like the people in the thread who said they don't like groping. He may be willing to tolerate it because it makes you happy (and you will probably have to use more observation to determine when those times are) but it's not going to be something that he gets off on.

Can you accept that?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, how does he react when he loses it during sex? Is he embarrassed or does he act like it's no big deal? Does it happen every time you have sex? That's just not normal for a man of his age, especially considering the length of time between your sessions.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



FrenchFry said:


> To the bolded: If you do not like the groping then no, he shouldn't do it. If you like it (or just needs adjustments) then don't deprive yourself of something you like because he doesn't like the reciprocal.


I like when he gropes me. But he is much too rough. Pinching and/or twisting nipples hurts. And he squeezes too hard. I've shown and told him how to be gentle. But I never try to get away from him or tell him to stop. I just say, "Ouch. That hurts, please be more gentle." He is wonder to grope me if he isn't inflicting pain.



> If you are observing that your touches make him squirm and run away--you aren't touching him sexually _to him_. I do believe he has to be way more attuned to what is a pleasing sexual touch to him (and share it with you) but he's making it clear that you aren't doing it now.
> 
> It may be he is like the people in the thread who said they don't like groping. He may be willing to tolerate it because it makes you happy (and you will probably have to use more observation to determine when those times are) but it's not going to be something that he gets off on.
> 
> Can you accept that?


I can accept that he doesn't like groping. I just wish I knew what he did like. 

You guys have opened my eyes. I will keep my hands off him.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Whoa. Thanks for all the input guys.  You guys rock. (And welcome FrenchFry. Stalk away!)
> 
> I want to clarify some things.
> 
> First I think I used too strong a word. He has never said he HATES it. He just said he doesn't like it.
> 
> Also I know I should respect that, and keep my hands off him. But I am super touchy, and that is one of my favorite things to do. He also gropes my boobs a LOT. So I really don't think he should be able to say I can't grope him, when he gropes me daily. But maybe I'm in the wrong?
> 
> Is there a better way to go about this? I don't want to never be able to touch my husband sexually. But I also don't want to not take his feelings into consideration. I'm not always grabbing. Sometimes we are watching a movie and I just let my hands wander under the blanket. I'm not being rough. *Should I ask him first? "Honey, may I touch your penis?*" Just sounds very lame.
> 
> FightForHer *we DID have sex that day. But we talked first. I didn't refuse him, I just wanted to be clear to him that it hurts my feelings when he rejects my advances all day then suddenly wants sex. *
> 
> I also realize not touching him during sex (this was a different day, before the talk) was childish. It was the first time after my period and a week without sex and he was just so blah and whatever about sex. It ticked me off, and I was pouting.
> 
> And nothing really sends them through the roof. He has an orgasm yes, but they aren't very enthusiastic. Lots of switching positions and "Does this feel good? Do I need to move?" from me. He goes limp several times over the course of a session and has to be "primed by hand" by one of us. He is never super hard, and sometimes I wonder if we will even be able to keep him hard enough to finish either of us.
> 
> Honestly sex just seems like something he tolerates. That may not be the case in his mind, but I read him that way usually.  He never shows a passion, or a real desire.
> 
> I wish he would just go get his dang T levels tested. We've been sleeping, spooning nightly, and I haven't felt any morning wood at all. Something has got to be up... well not up.
> 
> This just isn't what I wanted my sex life to be like.


Sorry, I though you refused. My bad.

Second, yup, if he is grabbing you, but you can't grab him then that is unfair and one sided. You should not have to ask though either. You need to talk to him to clear the expectations. He can grab you, but you can't grab him is unfair. If he thinks that every grab toward him is going to have to result in sex then that may be why he does not like it. Too much pressure. Perhaps if he feels a hand on him then the thinks that he has to have sex soon and he pulls away in an effort to change that outcome. Guessing here.

I am surprised that he is not normally aroused during the night and especially in the morning. This does seem odd to me. When I was younger, even sleeping alone, waking up in the morning was uncomfortable because I had to pee and could not with an erection. And there is no easy way to get it down. :rofl: Now, I still wake up hard often, but it is much easier to take a short walk and eventually get comfortable.

I am voting for the T level check with the rest of you guys. You have to rule it out. If it is indeed a problem, then this could be a big revelation for this marriage.

Sorry to be so hard on you earlier, but I really though you rejected, and I did not notice he was grabbing you and not returning the favor by letting you grab him. That is just totally unfair.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, how does he react when he loses it during sex? Is he embarrassed or does he act like it's no big deal? Does it happen every time you have sex? That's just not normal for a man of his age, especially considering the length of time between your sessions.


He just acts like it is no big deal. He will usually say something like "clean me off." Then he will get up, put his clothes back on and go get something to eat. Occasionally he will say "thanks toots" or "Whew. That really took it out of me."

That is about all the verbal confirmation I get. 

Yes it happens every time. I can't remember a time he was hard the entire time. He will go completely or nearly completely flaccid during sex. It doesn't matter if he is just laying beside me giving me manual or giving me oral and I'm touching him, or if he is thrusting. 

During thrusting he will "fall out" and will have to be primed again several times. It's not a surprise anymore, just normal. He will just say, "work your magic." And I will manually or orally stimulate him until he is semi hard again. 

It is frustrating to have to stop and start thrusting because he can't stay in. Some days it is worse than others and we have to keep switching positions because he won't stay erect enough. 

We always get them there, but it just doesn't seem quite right all the work that has to be done to get and keep him erect.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Sorry, I though you refused. My bad.
> 
> Second, yup, if he is grabbing you, but you can't grab him then that is unfair and one sided. You should not have to ask though either. You need to talk to him to clear the expectations. He can grab you, but you can't grab him is unfair. If he thinks that every grab toward him is going to have to result in sex then that may be why he does not like it. Too much pressure. Perhaps if he feels a hand on him then the thinks that he has to have sex soon and he pulls away in an effort to change that outcome. Guessing here.
> 
> I am surprised that he is not normally aroused during the night and especially in the morning. This does seem odd to me. When I was younger, even sleeping alone, waking up in the morning was uncomfortable because I had to pee and could not with an erection. And there is no easy way to get it down. :rofl: Now, I still wake up hard often, but it is much easier to take a short walk and eventually get comfortable.
> 
> I am voting for the T level check with the rest of you guys. You have to rule it out. If it is indeed a problem, then this could be a big revelation for this marriage.
> 
> Sorry to be so hard on you earlier, but I really though you rejected, and I did not notice he was grabbing you and not returning the favor by letting you grab him. That is just totally unfair.


No problem. 

I like honesty and blunt answers.

And I am really not pressuring him for sex when I grope him. I just like to have my hands on him. :scratchhead: It's comforting, I guess. But I can see how it could be annoying. I will knock it off.

T levels are just going to remain a mystery. I'll keep pushing for it, but he is just sinking his heels and gets instantly cranky when I mention it anymore. He says nothing is wrong with him. Arg.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He just acts like it is no big deal. He will usually say something like "clean me off." Then he will get up, put his clothes back on and go get something to eat. Occasionally he will say "thanks toots" or "Whew. That really took it out of me."
> 
> That is about all the verbal confirmation I get.
> 
> Yes it happens every time. I can't remember a time he was hard the entire time. He will go completely or nearly completely flaccid during sex. It doesn't matter if he is just laying beside me giving me manual or giving me oral and I'm touching him, or if he is thrusting.
> 
> During thrusting he will "fall out" and will have to be primed again several times. It's not a surprise anymore, just normal. He will just say, "work your magic." And I will manually or orally stimulate him until he is semi hard again.
> 
> It is frustrating to have to stop and start thrusting because he can't stay in. Some days it is worse than others and we have to keep switching positions because he won't stay erect enough.
> 
> We always get them there, but it just doesn't seem quite right all the work that has to be done to get and keep him erect.


This looks like a red flag.

Other males out there .. does this look like a red flag? That is, does any other males out there in their 20's share this difficulty?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm not a man, but it certainly doesn't sound normal to me. Your husband either has a mental and/or a physical problem.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No problem.
> 
> I like honesty and blunt answers.
> 
> And I am really not pressuring him for sex when I grope him. I just like to have my hands on him. :scratchhead: It's comforting, I guess. But I can see how it could be annoying. I will knock it off.
> 
> T levels are just going to remain a mystery. I'll keep pushing for it, but he is just sinking his heels and gets instantly cranky when I mention it anymore. He says nothing is wrong with him. Arg.


I was just wondering if in his head he thinks a grope will lead to sex frequently. Because if he does, and he is not up to sex he is going to push you away.

Hay, I also like to touch sexually without going for sex at the time. Sometimes I like to just put my hand there and gently feel and relax. It makes me feel intimate, relaxed, and comforted. So I can fully understand wanting to touch.


----------



## Thebuzzbees

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sounds a lot like my ex! 10 years I was rejected for. But he was just the ultimate controller! He also used to say he likes the chase rather than it being offered on a plate....unfortunately some men are just the alpha male.... Sorry I can't give you any support or advice.... Due to his controlling ways I left him and now happily married. Now the ex can't have me, he wants me... Speaks volumes x


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Is there a better way to go about this? I don't want to never be able to touch my husband sexually. But I also don't want to not take his feelings into consideration. I'm not always grabbing. *Sometimes we are watching a movie and I just let my hands wandering under the blanket. *I'm not being rough. Should I ask him first? "Honey, may I touch your penis?" Just sounds very lame.
> 
> *And nothing really sends them through the roof. He has an orgasm yes, but they aren't very enthusiastic. Lots of switching positions and "Does this feel good? Do I need to move?" from me.* He goes limp several times over the course of a session and has to be "primed by hand" by one of us. He is never super hard, and sometimes I wonder if we will even be able to keep him hard enough to finish either of us.
> 
> *Honestly sex just seems like something he tolerates. That may not be the case in his mind, but I read him that way usually.  He never shows a passion, or a real desire. *
> 
> This just isn't what I wanted my sex life to be like.


This is classic HD libido talk. Here's the way I my mind read it: 

"*Every time we are watching a movie I can't stop my hands from wandering under the blanket!* Why wouldn't you want your hands to wander? Who wants to watch a dumb ol' movie when you could be rolling around on the floor together? ":scratchhead: :rofl:

I can totally sympathize with you on the other bolded parts. 

Knowing that an LD partner just isn't as interested in sex makes you always question if they are enjoying it or are they just going along with it. You just can't let go and enjoy the moment yourself anymore. I'd say I don't O 20-25% of the time with her anymore because I loose focus worrying about her and navigating her limitations during sex. So I just fake O's sometimes to keep her from feeling like she let me down. I can still enjoy the experience without the O.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> T levels are just going to remain a mystery. I'll keep pushing for it, but he is just sinking his heels and gets instantly cranky when I mention it anymore. He says nothing is wrong with him. Arg.


Can you just make the doctor's appointment for him and go along with him? 

Tell him you made the appointment because you are worried about his health and want what is best for him(keep it about him, not you wanting sex). Also mention that you will come along to the appointment with him, unless he wants to go alone. Low T levels can cause more problems beyond low sex drive, so it really is about his health as well.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> This looks like a red flag.
> 
> Other males out there .. does this look like a red flag? That is, does any other males out there in their 20's share this difficulty?


This is a field full of red flags. This isn't an everytime occurrence for men in their 40s and 50s (barring there being a real physical or mental problem), let alone in their 20s.

Curious, I am beginning to think Faithful Wife was right, in that your husband is just not a sexual person. But that is immaterial, really; he knows you _are_ a sexual person and refuses to try anything to fix it and completely turns a blind eye to your concerns. That's not how you treat a partner and someone you profess to love. It irritates me all the way over here, so I can only imagine how you feel.

I've said it comes across as a lack of respect, from him to you. At this point, I think he simply takes you for granted.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Part of being in love means giving your lover the best possible spouse you can. And that also means always trying to better oneself and take care of one self. When he refuses to go to the Dr. to see if everything is ok health wise, then he is also refusing to give you the healthiest spouse possible.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He's LD and doesn't especially like being groped. You're HD but don't especially like roughness while he's touching you. Easy. No groping on your part. No roughness on his. 

LD people can feel overwhelmed by sexual touch. They don't dislike it on their terms but they don't want really someone touching them when it's not on their terms. 

His other issues should be looked into since they aren't typical for someone so young. But obviously men aren't all the same. And it could just be normal for him. It would be helpful for him to see a doctor about it but I'm guessing he won't. He probably doesn't want to be told there's a problem -- even a correctable one.


----------



## happybuddha

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes . I see that many of the women here are frustrated. I guess now I know its not just men that are frustrated. I mean gosh i lost weight and have transformed my body , made tons of money and that didnt even help. I would love for my wife to catch some HD sex drive .. I even suggested we take like a tantric class or something to evolve our sexuality and have a deeper connection and she isnt in to that either - I walk down the isle sometimes in drugstore and say gosh I wish she was curious about a vibrating **** ring or one of those vibrating condoms or perhaps even giving a prostate massage on me so we could explore each others bodies... But if I cant even get her to want sex more than 1 time every two weeks - unless I initiate it - then how can I go there if she comments a few weeks ago - you seem to think about sex a lot it takes up your brain.. Yes i know I told her because I think about having sex with you 3-4 times per week ... I asked her if she thought about sex .. she says well sometimes..perhaps I should keep a journal ..she says but not like you , what is the purpose of sex she asks me - I think be people do it just for fun she says.. I said also to connect intimately as couple , I think her hormones are off or depression - sure hopes she gets checked soon , ive been asking for about 1.5 years now ...

its so hard ,... to deal with LD partner


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
I'm sad for you. 

I truly want you to watch 'Masters of sex'. It's an excellent series on showtime. 

Because based on your posts, I'm fairly sure that your husband is not really hetero. He just isn't. That's why intercourse kills his erections. 

There is a couple who are depicted - who've been in a sexless marriage for a LONG time. And at the 25 year (or so) point the H comes out of the closet. That scene, is desperately sad. His wife suddenly understands that the decades of rejection she has dealt with are NOT HER FAULT. 

I'm guessing that the lack of premarital sex is due to him or both of you being very religious. By itself, that faith is great. However, for a man who isn't hetero - being highly religious is a huge problem. 

CW - if he had a T problem - he wouldn't stay hard during oral. But he DOES stay hard during oral. This isn't a T issue. And that's why he avoids doctors. He knows what's what. 

Sad for you. This is an awful situation. 



[/B]


TheCuriousWife said:


> He just acts like it is no big deal. He will usually say something like "clean me off." Then he will get up, put his clothes back on and go get something to eat. Occasionally he will say "thanks toots" or "Whew. That really took it out of me."
> 
> That is about all the verbal confirmation I get.
> 
> Yes it happens every time. I can't remember a time he was hard the entire time. He will go completely or nearly completely flaccid during sex. It doesn't matter if he is just laying beside me giving me manual or giving me oral and I'm touching him, or if he is thrusting.
> 
> During thrusting he will "fall out" and will have to be primed again several times. It's not a surprise anymore, just normal. He will just say, "work your magic." And I will manually or orally stimulate him until he is semi hard again.
> 
> It is frustrating to have to stop and start thrusting because he can't stay in. Some days it is worse than others and we have to keep switching positions because he won't stay erect enough.
> 
> We always get them there, but it just doesn't seem quite right all the work that has to be done to get and keep him erect.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He just acts like it is no big deal. He will usually say something like "clean me off." Then he will get up, put his clothes back on and go get something to eat. Occasionally he will say "thanks toots" or "Whew. That really took it out of me."
> 
> That is about all the verbal confirmation I get.
> 
> Yes it happens every time. I can't remember a time he was hard the entire time. He will go completely or nearly completely flaccid during sex. It doesn't matter if he is just laying beside me giving me manual or giving me oral and I'm touching him, or if he is thrusting.
> 
> During thrusting he will "fall out" and will have to be primed again several times. It's not a surprise anymore, just normal. He will just say, "work your magic." And I will manually or orally stimulate him until he is semi hard again.
> 
> It is frustrating to have to stop and start thrusting because he can't stay in. Some days it is worse than others and we have to keep switching positions because he won't stay erect enough.
> 
> We always get them there, but it just doesn't seem quite right all the work that has to be done to get and keep him erect.


Wow, I hope you realize that's not normal in any way, shape, or form for a man his age, no matter how low his libido is. You shouldn't request that he go see a doctor, you should demand it at this point.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> This looks like a red flag.
> 
> Other males out there .. does this look like a red flag? That is, does any other males out there in their 20's share this difficulty?


HUGE, glaring, screaming red flag. This does not happen to healthy, hetero man in their 20s. Something is up for sure.


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

*Re: Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> During thrusting he will "fall out" and will have to be primed again several times. It's not a surprise anymore, just normal. He will just say, "work your magic." And I will manually or orally stimulate him until he is semi hard again.
> 
> .


I think you had a post about becoming too tight, and "pushing" him out? That would cause you to have to stop and start. If he is going soft and falling out, that's another story. I think I'm close to 10 years older than you guys, and even if alcohol was involved, I've never gone soft once the action has started. The lack of morning wood is also a concern. Does he get erections while he sleeps? I can't back it up, but I think the penis does a "self check" several times a night. Just checks to make sure it still works. 
At this point, if I were you, I would sit him down at the table with two forms. One to be filled out by an endocrine doctor after having his T levels checked. The other would be divorce papers. One of the two will be filled out by the end of the week.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks for all the info and support guys.

Mem. Please. How many times does the classic, "he doesn't like sex so he must be gay" line have to come up. I'm tired of defending him about it. There isn't anything else to say. He isn't in the closet for pete's sake. End of story.

I agree that I don't think it normal that he has so much trouble staying erect for any length of time. But he won't listen to me. And he used to always stay hard during blow jobs, but the last one I gave him he was really struggling to stay hard, and he finished semi hard. So it seems to always be a problem now. 

Last time we had sex and I was getting ready I caught him "pre priming" himself before sex so he would have an erection. I think he is embarrassed about it. But I must say it hurts a little that I'm "not good enough" to arouse him fully. 

When we have sex and he goes flat, a lot of times he takes over now and gets himself hard again. I don't mind him being hands on, but I feel like I'm bad at it because I can't always get him back up by myself.

He is still adamant that he doesn't masturbate alone, and I believe him. 

I am beginning to wonder if maybe the trouble he has with erections makes him not want to have sex. Maybe he is embarrassed, and/or wonders if he will stay hard enough to satisfy me. 

Don't forget that he doesn't give me oral orgasms, so he is depending fully on his little soldier. Maybe it's too much pressure? I can only speculate because he has never said anything about him going limp being a problem, and neither have I. I don't want to hurt his ego, or cause more pressure.

How do I bring this up gently?

Also isn't there a type of vitamin or something that causes harder erections? Arginine or something? What is the dosage on that? I could pick that up at the store, and I feel like I could convince him to take that a lot easier than I could convince him to go to the doctor. Then maybe if that went well, he would be encouraged to seek professional help.

Jacob I do push him out. But I think it wouldn't happen so much if he wasn't half limp. I find it does happen more when he isn't fully hard. Although sometimes it can just be from me.

Also I've very rarely ever felt a night or morning erection. When and if he does get them, they are not full. Just semis. But I can't remember the last time he had one that I seen or felt. And we spoon every night.


----------



## tommyr

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Given that he doesn't perform oral, and his equipment is not always 100% reliable, why don't you introduce toys to your sex encounters? That would take some performance pressure off him, while also ensuring that you get yours.


----------



## NewHubs

TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks for all the info and support guys.
> 
> Mem. Please. How many times does the classic, "he doesn't like sex so he must be gay" line have to come up. I'm tired of defending him about it. There isn't anything else to say. He isn't in the closet for pete's sake. End of story.
> 
> I agree that I don't think it normal that he has so much trouble staying erect for any length of time. But he won't listen to me. And he used to always stay hard during blow jobs, but the last one I gave him he was really struggling to stay hard, and he finished semi hard. So it seems to always be a problem now.
> 
> Last time we had sex and I was getting ready I caught him "pre priming" himself before sex so he would have an erection. I think he is embarrassed about it. But I must say it hurts a little that I'm "not good enough" to arouse him fully.
> 
> When we have sex and he goes flat, a lot of times he takes over now and gets himself hard again. I don't mind him being hands on, but I feel like I'm bad at it because I can't always get him back up by myself.
> 
> He is still adamant that he doesn't masturbate alone, and I believe him.
> 
> I am beginning to wonder if maybe the trouble he has with erections makes him not want to have sex. Maybe he is embarrassed, and/or wonders if he will stay hard enough to satisfy me.
> 
> Don't forget that he doesn't give me oral orgasms, so he is depending fully on his little soldier. Maybe it's too much pressure? I can only speculate because he has never said anything about him going limp being a problem, and neither have I. I don't want to hurt his ego, or cause more pressure.
> 
> How do I bring this up gently?
> 
> Also isn't there a type of vitamin or something that causes harder erections? Arginine or something? What is the dosage on that? I could pick that up at the store, and I feel like I could convince him to take that a lot easier than I could convince him to go to the doctor. Then maybe if that went well, he would be encouraged to seek professional help.
> 
> Jacob I do push him out. But I think it wouldn't happen so much if he wasn't half limp. I find it does happen more when he isn't fully hard. Although sometimes it can just be from me.
> 
> Also I've very rarely ever felt a night or morning erection. When and if he does get them, they are not full. Just semis. But I can't remember the last time he had one that I seen or felt. And we spoon every night.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW - there is a supplement called "Steel Libido" made by Irwin Naturals. 

My friend takes it for that extra 'boost' and he swears it works wonders.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tommyr said:


> Given that he doesn't perform oral, and his equipment is not always 100% reliable, why don't you introduce toys to your sex encounters? That would take some performance pressure off him, while also ensuring that you get yours.


Ha. I just bought my first vibrator despite many protests from him.

He refuses to look at it, and most definitely use it together in the bedroom.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> CW - there is a supplement called "Steel Libido" made by Irwin Naturals.
> 
> My friend takes it for that extra 'boost' and he swears it works wonders.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Anything with "Libido" in the title is going to be an instant NO!

I've tried to get him to take T boosters from the store in the past. He always just said I was trying to get more sex, I just wanted his body, blah blah blah.

I was hoping since Arginine doesn't sound like the typical T booster, that maybe he would be more willing to take it, just for his health.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Pushing him out during PIV is your natural response to sexual stimulation. Your vagina is contracting and dilating, that's the way it's supposed to happen. And the penis is supposed to be hard enough to push itself back in. 

You're in a touch spot Curious. There is very clearly something happening, or not happening, with your husband and maybe he doesn't know what he is "supposed" to feel or do, but going limp several times during sex is not at all normal. 

His avoidance of sex with you, his young, beautiful and willing wife indicates a problem. 

His lack of knowledge or desire to know about female sexuality generally or getting his wife off specifically, indicates a problem.

His self entered approach to sex, asking for BJ's and then complaining about how long it takes to get you off, indicates a problem.

His avoidance of going down on you, unless you specifically ask for it, indicates a problem.

You put all of these together and you get a picture that is rather dire.

I suggest you focus on getting your final degree, completing all your education and get your career going strong. I now you're not ready to hear this yet, but I am 98% certain there will be no happy ending for this marriage because you cannot fix him and I'm not sure his issues are even fixable. I know you don't think he's gay, but I would bet my house he is. Even today, plenty of young LGBT simply turn off their sexuality rather than face some tough questions. If he is simply not a very sexual person to begin with, and gay men can also run the spectrum on sexuality, he could very easily just not ask those questions of himself.


----------



## tommyr

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Ha. I just bought my first vibrator despite many protests from him.
> 
> He refuses to look at it, and most definitely use it together in the bedroom.


Good for you! Sorry I must have missed that thread.

It's completely unfair and controlling of him to deny your sexual release. Does he seriously think you should be satisfied with no oral and an undependable erection? What exactly does he say about this? On what basis does he justify the No Toys policy?
This is more than just LD, this is outright cruel of him. What does he do to ensure your sexual pleasure?


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"Pre-priming" could be a result of sex too frequently for his preference. LD people usually want sex occasionally. Do you know what his natural preference for sex is -- once a week or every ten days maybe? 

He knows his drive is not the same as that of most young men and he's avoiding addressing it at any cost. That's concerning because there's no way to fix it unless he acknowledges there's an issue.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tommyr said:


> Good for you! Sorry I must have missed that thread.
> 
> It's completely unfair and controlling of him to deny your sexual release. Does he seriously think you should be satisfied with no oral and an undependable erection? What exactly does he say about this? On what basis does he justify the No Toys policy?
> This is more than just LD, this is outright cruel of him. What does he do to ensure your sexual pleasure?


He does make sure I am satisfied. Don't worry. I have an orgasm about 95% of the time, and the other 5% is when it's just a certain time of month when I just can't seem to get there.

He always finishes me if I can. He uses fingers and PIV. But it just seems like an uphill battle to keep him erect.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Openminded said:


> "Pre-priming" could be a result of sex too frequently for his preference. LD people usually want sex occasionally. Do you know what his natural preference for sex is -- once a week or every ten days maybe?
> 
> He knows his drive is not the same as that of most young men and he's avoiding addressing it at any cost. That's concerning because there's no way to fix it unless he acknowledges there's an issue.


I'm not 100% sure on his preference, because his actions and words don't match. 

But if I was LD and didn't want sex, I bet he would be satisfied with once a week maybe longer. 

If I don't initiate he usually will around twice a week. But I think that is because he knows I'm horny, and he feels bad putting me off any longer than that. I don't think that is actually when he is craving sex.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And, yes, I'm afraid it's possible he's confused about his sexuality. Life has changed a lot since I was your age but one things hasn't -- there is still a very serious stigma in conservative religious circles against gays. 

Hopefully that's not the case but the truth is that sexuality is much more complicated than we think. I know you want to dismiss that and I would want to too if I were you but keep it in mind down the road if nothing changes and he continues to refuse help.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think he rarely reaches a point where he craves it. Some people don't ever crave it. They have no concept of craving. Which isn't a problem if they are matched with someone like themselves. 

LD people often feel overwhelmed.


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Bottom line, this is a healthy guy in his 20's with a beautiful young wife who has problems keeping erect. There is so much wrong with that sentence. I feel this thread is going to go down a road Curious does not want to go....


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



techmom said:


> Bottom line, this is a healthy guy in his 20's with a beautiful young wife who has problems keeping erect. There is so much wrong with that sentence. I feel this thread is going to go down a road Curious does not want to go....


:iagree:

There is a LOT wrong with our sexual relationship.

BUT. He is not freakin gay, people. Frankly I'm tired of hearing it. There is no way I'm going to convince people he isn't, but there is no way you are going to convince me that he is. 

If a woman is LD and doesn't want to have sex with her husband no one bats an eye or says, "oh she must be a lesbian."

But a man who doesn't like sex, most definitely has to be gay right....

:banghead:


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not sure how I feel. Right now I don't care. But I think that is because I've tried getting angry, I've tried being sad. Nothing seems to work, so why keep trying. Logically I know it's only a week, and I'll live without any physical touch. So I'm just not letting my heart get involved.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I feel like I can't change things, and crying or yelling isn't going to help. So I might as well put on my big girl panties and get over it.





I'm exactly there, and have been there for awhile (except no panties of any sort to put on... but if this continues...).



Part of me thinks this is progress -- my own personal growth -- as it seems like I am seeing reality for what it is, and have learned where the line is here that divides what I can change and what I cannot. Acceptance -- in a neutral way, a way that leaves my mind and energy free to take stock of myself and figure out what I am willing to do about it now that I finally "know" what should have been obvious all these years.



The scary part is, life in this house with her has become less sad, less depressing, less frustrating, and easier to bear now that I "know" -- but is that all I should settle for?



Her harsh words, neglect, and withholding of intimacy (at times consciously chosen and consciously covert, by her own admission) no longer eat away at me, day in and day out. I am lighter hearted, even in her presence. She is making an effort to gain control over her expressions of anger with me and the kids, and I am starting to sense some awareness in her for what she has from me to appreciate. Yet, it seems like the hug I got two days ago is the first in a couple of weeks. Though it felt as if I sincerely meant something to her, I get similar hugs from my Grandmother.



The trick, I suspect, is to accept that what is IS, but don't resign yourself to that being all you deserve or will work towards. Resolve yourself to having the love and joy you desire, even if that means someday you will need to let go of those who cannot or will not create it with you.



(Easy to say...)


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
Sorry for upsetting you. Let's accept for the moment that my earlier observation was wrong. 

In the absence of a physical malady, his worsening ED is most likely a symptom that he is developing a sexual aversion. 


This is what we do know:
1. Your routine isn't working for him. His ED is worsening.
2. He's unwilling to consider any ED meds, and finds the topic itself upsetting. 
3. He minimizes / avoids verbal communication about sexual likes/dislikes. When pressed, his words and actions don't align.
4. He's gotten desperate enough to gaslight you (claims he never rejects you).
5. He's already tried to set the stage for using the demands of parenthood as a way to avoid having sex. 


In summary:
- You know he doesn't much like sex. You've been desperately trying to find out why, but he won't tell you. 
- One hypothesis is that he doesn't like sex because he has ED. That is very unlikely. A man who likes sex, will work to overcome obstacles in his path. He will try ED remedies - both natural and pharma. He will have his T levels checked, and/or managed. 

The way it looks is:
- He dislikes sex 
- He doesn't believe that his dislike is fixable, and so is wholly uninterested in trying to fix / change anything

This looks a lot more like sexual aversion than LD to me. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not 100% sure on his preference, because his actions and words don't match.
> 
> But if I was LD and didn't want sex, I bet he would be satisfied with once a week maybe longer.
> 
> If I don't initiate he usually will around twice a week. But I think that is because he knows I'm horny, and he feels bad putting me off any longer than that. I don't think that is actually when he is craving sex.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The pre-priming you described sounds like this weighs heavily on his mind. Does that seem likely to you?



Anxiety during the act is only going to make losing his erection even more likely. It is a feedback loop, leading to a downward spiral.



If he doesn't get a handle on that anxiety, then I doubt he can effectively address whatever the underlying problem is. Have you two discussed such dynamics. (Please ignore if this has already been covered.)


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It still just looks like LD to me. I bet if he didn't get off for two weeks he wouldn't go soft. He is being "used up" too often for his body to catch up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> Sorry for upsetting you. Let's accept for the moment that my earlier observation was wrong.
> 
> In the absence of a physical malady, his worsening ED is most likely a symptom that he is developing a sexual aversion.
> 
> 
> This is what we do know:
> 1. Your routine isn't working for him. His ED is worsening.
> 2. He's unwilling to consider any ED meds, and finds the topic itself upsetting.
> 3. He minimizes / avoids verbal communication about sexual likes/dislikes. When pressed, his words and actions don't align.
> 4. He's gotten desperate enough to gaslight you (claims he never rejects you).
> 5. He's already tried to set the stage for using the demands of parenthood as a way to avoid having sex.
> 
> 
> In summary:
> - You know he doesn't much like sex. You've been desperately trying to find out why, but he won't tell you.
> - One hypothesis is that he doesn't like sex because he has ED. That is very unlikely. A man who likes sex, will work to overcome obstacles in his path. He will try ED remedies - both natural and pharma. He will have his T levels checked, and/or managed.
> 
> The way it looks is:
> - He dislikes sex
> - He doesn't believe that his dislike is fixable, and so is wholly uninterested in trying to fix / change anything
> 
> This looks a lot more like sexual aversion than LD to me.


You didn't upset me.  I don't mind people voicing their opinions as long as they don't mind me voicing mine. I'm just tired of repeating that he isn't gay over and over. 

And I agree with your perceptions of what is happening. 

But if he is LD wouldn't that in essence mean he is averse to sex? 

I don't think he even knows why he doesn't like sex. I don't think he is dodging my questions, I just think he can't answer them.

If I had to place bets, I would say he is low T. Which is causing a disinterest in sex, and crappy erections. But I think that is only another nail in the coffin. I also believe he just isn't very sexual. 

Which I might be able to live with. If I could just get him to try something to make our sex life more pleasurable, for both of us!

I don't need wild, daily, monkey sex. But our sex sessions shouldn't have to be us struggling to keep him erect the entire time. 

I just want him to get tested, or try some natural supplements. But I don't know how to get him to do it without a huge blow up and/or damaging his ego. 

I think I will just buy the arginine for now and see if it helps. What is the recommended dosage? I've seen conflicting information. Also what is a good way to bring up the conversation in a gentle but assertive way?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> It still just looks like LD to me. I bet if he didn't get off for two weeks he wouldn't go soft. He is being "used up" too often for his body to catch up.


:iagree:

Which is why I think the arginine would be a good option. It would help him keep up with me a little easier. And he would get more enjoyment out of it, instead of feeling embarrassed that he can't keep an erection.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PieceOfSky said:


> The pre-priming you described sounds like this weighs heavily on his mind. Does that seem likely to you?
> 
> 
> 
> Anxiety during the act is only going to make losing his erection even more likely. It is a feedback loop, leading to a downward spiral.
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't get a handle on that anxiety, then I doubt he can effectively address whatever the underlying problem is. Have you two discussed such dynamics. (Please ignore if this has already been covered.)


I'm sure it does bother him that he feels like he can't satisfy me. On days when we especially have trouble with him going limp he will say things like, "why don't you just go find a real man"


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

At 2424 post into this, you have probably heard this before. Sorry if this too is repetition....

"why don't you just go find a real man"

-- ugh, at once I might feel a little sympathy for him and at the same time want to scream at the passive agressiveness

Is he refusing to get his T-levels checked out, or to see a professional about this? My guess from the last page or so is yes, he has failed to jump right on that.

Good luck with the natural supplements, but he does not sound like he interested in finding a fix. I have no idea if natural supplements work for a significant number of men who have his issues, because no one knows what his issues are. 

Even if there is a physical issue such supplements would help improve, if there is a part of him that wants the problem to linger, it will.


I would emphasize to him, every chance you got, that he may not have a choice about whether he is erect for you or not, and that you are trying to adjust to that in a loving way. But, he does have a choice whether to seek any and all medical and psychological roots to the problem, and if he is not doing THAT, it is something you will never adjust to or feel like you should.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Which is why I think the arginine would be a good option. It would help him keep up with me a little easier. And he would get more enjoyment out of it, instead of feeling embarrassed that he can't keep an erection.


Perhaps I'm mixing in a bit too much of my own frustration into your situation, but when I read that, I find my self thinking here you are spinning your wheels, investing tons of energy looking for solutions to problems you absolutely cannot fix without his investment and cooperation, taking special interest in those solution attempts that -- if you are lucky -- fly under his "sensitive" radar. And, what is he doing but getting in the way?

He's not being fair to you, and that may not ever change.

You are not being fair to you. That is something you can change.


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> Sorry for upsetting you. Let's accept for the moment that my earlier observation was wrong.
> 
> In the absence of a physical malady, his worsening ED is most likely a symptom that he is developing a sexual aversion.
> 
> 
> This is what we do know:
> 1. Your routine isn't working for him. His ED is worsening.
> 2. He's unwilling to consider any ED meds, and finds the topic itself upsetting.
> 3. He minimizes / avoids verbal communication about sexual likes/dislikes. When pressed, his words and actions don't align.
> 4. He's gotten desperate enough to gaslight you (claims he never rejects you).
> 5. He's already tried to set the stage for using the demands of parenthood as a way to avoid having sex.
> 
> 
> In summary:
> - You know he doesn't much like sex. You've been desperately trying to find out why, but he won't tell you.
> - One hypothesis is that he doesn't like sex because he has ED. That is very unlikely. A man who likes sex, will work to overcome obstacles in his path. He will try ED remedies - both natural and pharma. He will have his T levels checked, and/or managed.
> 
> The way it looks is:
> - He dislikes sex
> - He doesn't believe that his dislike is fixable, and so is wholly uninterested in trying to fix / change anything
> 
> This looks a lot more like sexual aversion than LD to me.


For the duration of this long thread, this is the most likely outcome. For there to be an aversion to something, that thing has to register as a negative. I wonder, what negative experiences did he have regarding sex? If he was just LD, he wouldn't have a negative reaction to sex, he would just be indifferent to sex with a take it or leave it attitude.

He is clearly negative towards this topic, there is lots of things to consider. You want him to desire it, but we are far from that outcome, you have to work from his aversion.


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PieceOfSky said:


> Perhaps I'm mixing in a bit too much of my own frustration into your situation, but when I read that, I find my self thinking here you are spinning your wheels, investing tons of energy looking for solutions to problems you absolutely cannot fix without his investment and cooperation, taking special interest in those solution attempts that -- if you are lucky -- fly under his "sensitive" radar. And, what is he doing but getting in the way?
> 
> He's not being fair to you, and that may not ever change.
> 
> You are not being fair to you. That is something you can change.


As an LD, I realize when it takes two to fix a problem. Whatever supplement you bring home has to be taken by him, if he doesn't take it you will be back to square one.

I continue to try to work with my hubby, he may not think so however because it doesn't advance my desire as fast as he would like. But I don't have an aversion to working with him, your hubby has an aversion to working with you.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm sure it does bother him that he feels like he can't satisfy me. On days when we especially have trouble with him going limp he will say things like, "why don't you just go find a real man"


I hope that's just him lashing out in frustration over the issue more than being a true deep-seated emotion he has going on in him. If he's feeling that deep down he needs a lot of work in the head as well.


----------



## tommyr

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm sure it does bother him that he feels like he can't satisfy me. On days when we especially have trouble with him going limp he will say things like, "why don't you just go find a real man"


This is the moment when you reassure him that he IS a real man, but maybe he could see a doctor? Then pull out that new vibrator and tell him to just sit back and watch.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I read a long time ago that if when trying to understand what is going on inside someone, you ask a fair question, and their response is "I don't know", that it sometimes helps to say this:

"OK. That's understandable. But, if you had to guess, what would it be?"

And, maybe as a follow up,...

"OK. What else do you think it could be...."


It has really seemed to work sometimes. (The "OK. That's understandable." part I added, iirc). Maybe because it frees the other to speculate and not guarantee accuracy. Maybe because it keeps me from being speechless in the face of their attempt to shut communication down.

If there was no answer to "Well, if you had to guesss...", I would point out bluntly "You mean you cannot even hazard to take a guess. I'm not going to hold you to it. I am just trying to understand what is happening here. There is a real issue and we both need to understand it, and we both need to try."


Just throwing that out there, in case part of the problem is he is shutting down attempts to really introspect, communicate, and understand the problem (as someone would if part of him or her got something out of keeping the problem alive).


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,

Is physical intimacy with him something that makes you feel loved by him, connected to him?

Likewise, does it work that way for him?

Do you feel like he is rejecting you, in a way that makes you feel unloved, unimportant?

Have you two talked about this aspect, if it exists for you?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
I see a big difference between LD and sexual aversion. 

LD: Quite simply the absence of a desire to have sex. This is the absence of a positive feeling. NOT the presence of a negative feeling. 

I am fluent in this subject because it's the basis for our marriage. M2 very rarely feels desire before we get in bed. But she absolutely feels desire as we start to touch and kiss. And mostly she has an O. The thought of sex, even before we start, doesn't make her tense her anxious. 

And once she gets aroused, she has no desire to rush the process. It feels good, she likes it. 

Sexual aversion is typically characterized by:
- the presence of a strong desire NOT to have sex with your partner. And
- difficulty in getting/staying aroused and enjoying the overall experience. 












TheCuriousWife said:


> You didn't upset me.  I don't mind people voicing their opinions as long as they don't mind me voicing mine. I'm just tired of repeating that he isn't gay over and over.
> 
> And I agree with your perceptions of what is happening.
> 
> But if he is LD wouldn't that in essence mean he is averse to sex?
> 
> I don't think he even knows why he doesn't like sex. I don't think he is dodging my questions, I just think he can't answer them.
> 
> If I had to place bets, I would say he is low T. Which is causing a disinterest in sex, and crappy erections. But I think that is only another nail in the coffin. I also believe he just isn't very sexual.
> 
> Which I might be able to live with. If I could just get him to try something to make our sex life more pleasurable, for both of us!
> 
> I don't need wild, daily, monkey sex. But our sex sessions shouldn't have to be us struggling to keep him erect the entire time.
> 
> I just want him to get tested, or try some natural supplements. But I don't know how to get him to do it without a huge blow up and/or damaging his ego.
> 
> I think I will just buy the arginine for now and see if it helps. What is the recommended dosage? I've seen conflicting information. Also what is a good way to bring up the conversation in a gentle but assertive way?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
The arginine conversation is best had in the kitchen while cooking. This avoids a face to face discussion that might feel confrontational to him. 

When you are both in a relaxed mood, and cooking:

(First, state the issue from his perspective and try and get him to agree with it)

CW: Lately it seems like the times when you have some ED in bed have been causing you to feel bad. 

Pause and let him respond - if he disputes that or plays dumb - he's gaslighting you. If that happens - address it but don't get bogged down. 

Gaslight response:
CW: (calm but firm) Babe, it's bad for both of us when we have an issue and one of us pretends we don't. If we had a MC in the room they would say: that telling your wife during sex that she should go find a real man reflects a HIGH level of distress. 

Pause again: if he continues to gaslight, or tries to knock you off your stride with: Well is that what you want? A real man. 

Ignore it and stay the course with: 

I HAVE a real man, who seems to be hurting. Would you be willing to try an herbal supplement that might help with the ED? 

He's likely going to say no. 

And the most likely reason for that is rather difficult to accept. His lack of interest combined with his sexual dysfunction are having a powerful suppressant effect on your libido. And he KNOWS that. 

He doesn't want to do anything to increase your sexpectations. 

------
When he says no, perhaps you might reply with:
CW: I know the ED is making you feel bad, I truly am at a loss as to why you aren't willing to even try a supplement that might help with that. 

Then shut up and listen. He is likely going to be unkind as he knows that he would have to tell you some very frightening truths in order to explain why he's doing this. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> You didn't upset me.  I don't mind people voicing their opinions as long as they don't mind me voicing mine. I'm just tired of repeating that he isn't gay over and over.
> 
> And I agree with your perceptions of what is happening.
> 
> But if he is LD wouldn't that in essence mean he is averse to sex?
> 
> I don't think he even knows why he doesn't like sex. I don't think he is dodging my questions, I just think he can't answer them.
> 
> If I had to place bets, I would say he is low T. Which is causing a disinterest in sex, and crappy erections. But I think that is only another nail in the coffin. I also believe he just isn't very sexual.
> 
> Which I might be able to live with. If I could just get him to try something to make our sex life more pleasurable, for both of us!
> 
> I don't need wild, daily, monkey sex. But our sex sessions shouldn't have to be us struggling to keep him erect the entire time.
> 
> I just want him to get tested, or try some natural supplements. But I don't know how to get him to do it without a huge blow up and/or damaging his ego.
> 
> I think I will just buy the arginine for now and see if it helps. What is the recommended dosage? I've seen conflicting information. Also what is a good way to bring up the conversation in a gentle but assertive way?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I would just skip the supplements and push for him to see an endocrinologist. You need to rule out a medical condition for the ED first. You don't want to give supplements that could perhaps make a medical condition worse.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How religious is his family? Did he get the message that sex is bad when he was a teenager and took it a little too much to heart -- even after marriage -- and that caused a conflict in his mind?


----------



## Anonymous07

TheCuriousWife said:


> I just want him to get tested, or try some natural supplements. But I don't know how to get him to do it without a huge blow up and/or damaging his ego.
> 
> I think I will just buy the arginine for now and see if it helps. What is the recommended dosage? I've seen conflicting information. Also what is a good way to bring up the conversation in a gentle but assertive way?


Please do not just give him supplements! It may be "natural", but that does NOT make it safe. 

Try to do what I recommended before. Make his doctors appointment for him. Tell him you are worried about his health(not sex related) and will go with him if he wants you there for support, but he has to go. You want him to be healthy and won't take no for an answer. You can have him get a full blood test to look at T levels and others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PieceOfSky said:


> I read a long time ago that if when trying to understand what is going on inside someone, you ask a fair question, and their response is "I don't know", that it sometimes helps to say this:
> 
> "OK. That's understandable. But, if you had to guess, what would it be?"
> 
> And, maybe as a follow up,...
> 
> "OK. What else do you think it could be...."
> 
> 
> It has really seemed to work sometimes. (The "OK. That's understandable." part I added, iirc). Maybe because it frees the other to speculate and not guarantee accuracy. Maybe because it keeps me from being speechless in the face of their attempt to shut communication down.
> 
> If there was no answer to "Well, if you had to guesss...", I would point out bluntly "You mean you cannot even hazard to take a guess. I'm not going to hold you to it. I am just trying to understand what is happening here. There is a real issue and we both need to understand it, and we both need to try."
> 
> 
> Just throwing that out there, in case part of the problem is he is shutting down attempts to really introspect, communicate, and understand the problem (as someone would if part of him or her got something out of keeping the problem alive).


This is a fantastic idea! :smthumbup:

I will make sure to use it next time he gives me the "I don't know" answer.

Thanks!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PieceOfSky said:


> TCW,
> 
> Is physical intimacy with him something that makes you feel loved by him, connected to him?
> 
> Likewise, does it work that way for him?
> 
> Do you feel like he is rejecting you, in a way that makes you feel unloved, unimportant?
> 
> Have you two talked about this aspect, if it exists for you?


Of course it makes me feel loved and connected.

I could not tell you if it works that way for him. He is a man of very few words, and getting anything serious out of him is like pulling teeth. He has never said sex makes him feel loved and connected, but who knows if it does or doesn't. Unfortunately I'm not a mind reader. And he isn't too giddy about verbally sharing his feelings.

Yes, when he rejects me it does make me feel unloved and unimportant. Even when he doesn't "really" reject me, it still feels like a rejection half the time.

For example. Yesterday he had our day planned out and it was busy, so I made the comment, asking about if we would have enough time for sex. He said we will see. Then later when we were free and he was getting in the shower, I asked him if we could have sex. (We like to start in the shower.) He said, "Maybe after I eat, and clean the bedroom. But you're welcome to get in the shower with me." 

I just can't even describe how his "maybe" and "we'll see" answers bug me. I just want a yes or a no. He always leaves me hanging, and wondering. It is also never when I ask. It's always after xyz. But I went ahead and got in the shower thinking maybe we could at least make out or something. 

The second I got in, he slid out the other side. Boo. So I took a long shower and after I got out I didn't know whether I should just get dressed or if he actually wanted to have sex. So I walked around in a towel for an hour. While he cleaned, ate, played on my phone, etc. 

Then he initiated. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal to have to wait an hour, but he does this every single time. I'd be perfectly happy if he would just say, "I'd love to have sex, but I'm starving, so right after I eat okay." But it's always maybe. And then he just completely ignores me until he is done doing whatever and then he expects me to just be hot and rearing to go. While I'm sitting around getting turned off the entire time.

It is so frustrating.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> I see a big difference between LD and sexual aversion.
> 
> LD: Quite simply the absence of a desire to have sex. This is the absence of a positive feeling. NOT the presence of a negative feeling.
> 
> I am fluent in this subject because it's the basis for our marriage. M2 very rarely feels desire before we get in bed. But she absolutely feels desire as we start to touch and kiss. And mostly she has an O. The thought of sex, even before we start, doesn't make her tense her anxious.
> 
> And once she gets aroused, she has no desire to rush the process. It feels good, she likes it.
> 
> Sexual aversion is typically characterized by:
> - the presence of a strong desire NOT to have sex with your partner. And
> - difficulty in getting/staying aroused and enjoying the overall experience.


Ah. Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense now. 

I have no idea why he is sex averse.  Probably just too much chasing him and hounding him for sex. It's like telling a kid to clean their room and they don't want to. The more you ask, the less they want to do it. 

But I really am a lot better than I used to be. The majority of the time I let him make the first move. I can't take back the damage I already did though. He still brings up stuff I said a year ago, instead of looking at how I act now. I can't undo it. And usually he doesn't understand what I was trying to communicate, and takes it the wrong way, or doesn't understand.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When I asked him recently why he always poses his initiation as a question instead of saying what he wanted he said that I told him he was selfish in the past when he initiated. :banghead:

That was at least a year ago, and that's not even what I said. 

I told him that it was selfish of him to always make me wait until he was done with whatever he was doing after I initiated sex, but expect me to just drop everything and have sex that minute when he initiated. 

Somehow he translated that as I think it is selfish of him to initiate and that I always want to be the one to initiate. 

Even though I've told him dozens of times, that I would like him to initiate. 

I don't even mind dropping everything when he initiates. The only reason we even had that conversation was because he was always making me wait to have sex. And he still does!

It seems like no matter what I tell him, his mind twists what I say, to whatever he wants to hear. Sigh


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

M2 NEVER plays this: 

MAYBE WE CAN

But only after I 

CLEAN, and JACK AROUND on your phone

---------
When M2 or I ask each other to do something (sex or otherwise), the person asked makes sure not to act indifferent. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Ah. Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense now.
> 
> I have no idea why he is sex averse.  Probably just too much chasing him and hounding him for sex. It's like telling a kid to clean their room and they don't want to. The more you ask, the less they want to do it.
> 
> But I really am a lot better than I used to be. The majority of the time I let him make the first move. I can't take back the damage I already did though. He still brings up stuff I said a year ago, instead of looking at how I act now. I can't undo it. And usually he doesn't understand what I was trying to communicate, and takes it the wrong way, or doesn't understand.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> M2 NEVER plays this:
> 
> MAYBE WE CAN
> 
> But only after I
> 
> CLEAN, and JACK AROUND on your phone
> 
> ---------
> When M2 or I ask each other to do something (sex or otherwise), the person asked makes sure not to act indifferent.


It shouldn't be like that. It drives me crazy!

I agree it's not just sex. When you are asked to do something, it doesn't mean 3 hours from now. 

If he said he was hungry and asked me to start dinner I'm sure he would be upset if I just ignored him, until 10pm at night then said, "okay I guess I feel like cooking now."


----------



## speeedbump

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey TCW,

I haven't been through all 2400 posts but I've read enough to get an idea of what you're going through. Being married to an extremely LD spouse I can feel your pain. I get almost exactly the same responses from my wife. It hurts when she won't even acknowledge that there is a problem and refuses to take any action to try to make things better. It's just a cruel joke that people with HD get stuck with LD spouses. I used to think that since just about everything else in our relation ship was fine, I could just live with an unsatisfying sex life and if there was just a little improvement, I'd be OK.

But after being married for 18 years the dissatisfaction is worse than ever. Don't assume that you'll eventually be OK with it. It will keep eating you up inside. If you have kids, it will be even worse. The number of available excuses will multiply exponentially.

It hurts for me to see all the effort that you are putting in and getting no response. I would kill to have my wife "grope" me. I don't care when or where or if it's 24/7. Sleeping naked, initiating sex, flirting. I long for even a small taste of this. Now that about half my life is gone, I realize that I can't live the rest of it being so hurt and rejected all the time. It doesn't matter what else happens now. I need a chance at happiness and if things don't change drastically, I'm going to have to go through some pain to get free and give myself an opportunity to find it.

The problems with erections, lack of morning wood etc is not natural. There are so many red flags! If I could go back 10 years and talk to my younger self, I wouldn't let me put up with it. Don't find yourself in my position 15 years from now. You deserve more.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Sorry to say, but I don't think "supplements" are going to be the answer. If anything they will just delay. The answer is going to come from a Doctor that knows what is wrong by doing some tests. Time is marching on. You don't want to delay things further and be told by the Doctor that it would be easier to treat if you came in earlier. What if this is just the symptom to some other problem that is very serious.

In the book "the scream free marriage" I believe he talks about giving your spouse the best possible spouse. And that simply means that a spouse should be willing and wanting, to better themselves to offer the best possible gift they can to their lover. 

Now, if he sees that he has any shortcomings, and makes statements like "go out and get a real man," then he knows something is wrong. And he also knows that you deserve the best. And that means that he should be wanting to try to make the changes to be the best possible spouse for you. And that includes in bed. He is trying to be the best he can in other places, like bringing you coffee and leaving you notes etc. But you deserve the entire package, not just a partial attempt.

I don't see him wanting to fix this problem. I suspect he is scared and is afraid that there will be embarrassment, possibly no fix, or that the fix will be painful or that the fix will require him to depend on something for the rest of his life. However, he loves you and should be wanting to fix this because he wants to offer you the best possible.

When he says "I don't know" he probably has some ideas, and does not want to share at this time. You may have to get firm, and make it very clear to him that it is unacceptable for him to not get checked by a professional. It is NOT just because you desire to have sex with him, it is because you need to rule out any heath issue that can be treated.

Again, I don't think supplements are going to be an answer, and it will be difficult to tell if they are working because it is difficult to measure his performance from day to day. So you will probably just waste some time and some money on the supplements.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Heart issues can cause ED Curious. I'm definitely not saying that your husband has heart issues, but he needs to see a doctor to rule it out. I would just sit him down and be very honest with him. I would tell him that you are concerned for his health, that you have been doing some research on ED and what he is experiencing isn't normal for a man his age. He needs to see an endocrinologist to rule out any health issues. He may get mad, but he can't stay mad forever and your marriage can survive a mad spell. He has to know himself that what he is experiencing isn't normal for his age. I hope he will at least agree to go get checked out Curious. My thoughts are with you.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

He is super consistent. And he is exceptionally good at using subtext to punish you. 

This is why I use the term sexual aversion. 

He is punishing you for forcing him to do something he dislikes. 

But he's doing so while retaining plausible deniability. 

He's pushing you away (sexually) as hard as he feels he safely can. 

He is (quietly) desperately hoping to get you pregnant. You will be 10 times more glued to him and he will have 10 times more excuses to avoid you. 

------
CW,
About 20 years ago my company had a large annual get together. They hired a big name consultant to give us a speech during lunch. They paid this guy 10K for a one hour talk. He was terrific. 

Early in his pitch he tells us that company's hire him because he can predict the future. We all stop eating and stare at him. 

He says: Not kidding, I CAN predict the future. 

This big room is now silent. The background hum of movement has disappeared. 

He adds: we're in the middle of June, in 6 months it will be a lot colder outside. 

The room erupts in laughter. 

And now my friend I'll do the same for you - sans the bill for 10K.

Your H, doesn't have to do anything different. He just needs to avoid upsetting you to the point of fracture. 

Because: As time passes, your biological clock will begin to tick louder and louder. It will eventually reach a volume such that it will drown out the sound of sweet reason. 

It will be so loud, that the idea of getting divorced and starting over will seem so impossibly slow and uncertain as to be wholly impossible. You will get pregnant. He'll tolerate some sex between pregnancy's. Like he does now. 

After your last child - he will stop pretending. Your strained sex life, will end. If the standard template applies, what will also happen is that touch and affection will mostly end with it. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> It shouldn't be like that. It drives me crazy!
> 
> I agree it's not just sex. When you are asked to do something, it doesn't mean 3 hours from now.
> 
> If he said he was hungry and asked me to start dinner I'm sure he would be upset if I just ignored him, until 10pm at night then said, "okay I guess I feel like cooking now."


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OMG Mem, what a depressing post -- I hope you are wrong......


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

MEM, all this is great but why is he doing it?


----------



## CardReader

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Karole, you'd be surprised how often that happens... 

My mom's best friend was married to a man much like how CW describes her husband. He got her pregnant 8 times nearly back to back because he had an excuse not to have sex with her. He'd always make some excuse or say he was scared to have sex with her while pregnant for whatever reason. He ended up leaving her because of all the fighting over sex and his own personal problems after she stopped having children. 

He needs to go to the doctor and rule out any possible health issues. Hec, why don't you go to the doctor and while you're there for yourself, ask their opinion about your husband? Tell them what's going on. Get their advise. Wouldn't hurt to try.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John,

I sincerely believe the following:

- He loves CW. She's kind, and fun and smart and pretty. He genuinely enjoys her company. 
- He absolutely wants children 
- He had absolutely no idea that female partners are hard wired with a wide range of libidos - he absolutely didn't anticipate being in this situation 
- He is stressed about their sexual tension, but truly believes that children will mostly solve it. And while he's stressed, he is no where near as stressed as CW. Because he's in control. 
- He is not interested in divorce, for religious reasons. And he may also fear that another marriage will result in similar conflict over sex. He also fears the inevitable questions a divorce will provoke. 

And he truly doesn't understand the depth of CW's pain. I'd hazard to say he is incapable of understanding it simply because he's never felt anything like it. 






john117 said:


> MEM, all this is great but why is he doing it?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Card,
It is remarkably difficult to get someone to go to the doctor when:
- They feel strong and energetic, happy and healthy
- The only thing wrong with them is something they - don't see as wrong. They simply see it as - how they are. 

Under intense duress, you would likely find that he believes CW needs to be treated for hyper sexuality, he doesn't need to be treated for hypo sexuality. 





CardReader said:


> Karole, you'd be surprised how often that happens...
> 
> My mom's best friend was married to a man much like how CW describes her husband. He got her pregnant 8 times nearly back to back because he had an excuse not to have sex with her. He'd always make some excuse or say he was scared to have sex with her while pregnant for whatever reason. He ended up leaving her because of all the fighting over sex and his own personal problems after she stopped having children.
> 
> He needs to go to the doctor and rule out any possible health issues. Hec, why don't you go to the doctor and while you're there for yourself, ask their opinion about your husband? Tell them what's going on. Get their advise. Wouldn't hurt to try.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Card,
> It is remarkably difficult to get someone to go to the doctor when:
> - They feel strong and energetic, happy and healthy
> - The only thing wrong with them is something they - don't see as wrong. They simply see it as - how they are.
> 
> Under intense duress, you would likely find that he believes CW needs to be treated for hyper sexuality, he doesn't need to be treated for hypo sexuality.


I'm sorry to say that you are more than likely right Mem; however, I would at least try to get him to see a specialist.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> - He is stressed about their sexual tension, but truly believes that children will mostly solve it. And while he's stressed, he is no where near as stressed as CW. *Because he's in control....*
> 
> And he truly doesn't understand the depth of CW's pain. I'd hazard to say he is incapable of understanding it simply because he's never felt anything like it.


Excellent point. This is exactly what I was trying to say several pages back but got lambasted for it. This relationship is doomed if he doesn't get to a medical doctor (and quite likely a shrink too.)

CW, you can buy all arginine supplements you want, but your husband has MAJOR psyche issues that need to be addressed. 

His multiple "going limp during sex" events are far from "normal" for a young man with a beautiful young wife who has a NORMAL, HEALTHY sex drive. 

Many people here have tried to tell you he is likely homosexual. You have resisted that explanation vehemently.

The day my marriage counselor told me my ex-husband was ASEXUAL and VERY LIKELY HOMOSEXUAL (turns out, you can be both) I almost fell out of the chair. I said, "You must be mistaken. He is NOT gay." The counselor told me, *"No, YOU must be mistaken."*

My husband "faked" his way through sex with me for years... mostly unfulfilling for me, always a lack of desire on his part, failing erections, premature or NO ejaculation depending on his mood, always a struggle, occasionally remotely satisfying for me (after haranguing him) but always leaving me begging for MORE.... Honestly, I equate it to "drive-by" sex...

I wish you the best.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Happy,
Let's accept that CW knows her H well enough to be sure he isn't gay. 

Because it does not matter at all. The ONLY thing that matters in this type situation is whether or not your spouse wants to have sex with YOU. 

In theory, the WHY matters. But in practice, the WHY is only relevant if:
1. They are willing to tell you in plain English
2. What they tell you is actionable and attainable

While there is a diagnostic decision tree for this type situation, it starts with two litmus test questions for yourself, not your partner: 

1. How much desire did my spouse feel for me when we first started sleeping together? 
2. To what degree is my spouse an active participant in discussions / efforts to improve our sex life? 

If the answer to both one and two above is: very little

That tells you a lot. 




happy as a clam said:


> Excellent point. This is exactly what I was trying to say several pages back but got lambasted for it. This relationship is doomed if he doesn't get to a medical doctor (and quite likely a shrink too.)
> 
> CW, you can buy all arginine supplements you want, but your husband has MAJOR psyche issues that need to be addressed.
> 
> His multiple "going limp during sex" events are far from "normal" for a young man with a beautiful young wife who has a NORMAL, HEALTHY sex drive.
> 
> Many people here have tried to tell you he is likely homosexual. You have resisted that explanation vehemently.
> 
> The day my marriage counselor told me my ex-husband was ASEXUAL and VERY LIKELY HOMOSEXUAL (turns out, you can be both) I almost fell out of the chair. I said, "You must be mistaken. He is NOT gay." The counselor told me, *"No, YOU must be mistaken."*
> 
> My husband "faked" his way through sex with me for years... mostly unfulfilling for me, always a lack of desire on his part or failing erections, premature or NO ejaculation depending on his mood, always a struggle, occasionally remotely satisfying for me (after haranguing him) but always leaving me begging for MORE.... Honestly, I equate it to "drive-by" sex...
> 
> I wish you the best.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Card,
> It is remarkably difficult to get someone to go to the doctor when:
> - They feel strong and energetic, happy and healthy
> - The only thing wrong with them is something they - don't see as wrong. They simply see it as - how they are.
> 
> Under intense duress, you would likely find that he believes CW needs to be treated for hyper sexuality, he doesn't need to be treated for hypo sexuality.


That's why I mentioned to make the appointment for him(not making it about sex, but about general health - like a yearly physical) and then offer to go along for support. She can also offer to have her own physical done, so he isn't the only one going in for an appointment. 

It's extremely important that he sees a doctor to rule out possible health issues.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Anonymous,
There is one aspect of this medical check that will be very, very problematic. 

If he goes in at all, he's going to tell the doctor that he's perfectly healthy. He is NOT going to want to specifically ask for a Test of his T levels because he has NO interest in talking about his ED. 

Maybe an annual physical will include a test of his T levels, but I don't think they will test those unless he asks. 

That said, if I was CW I would be adamant that he get tested. And I'd be clear that it WAS about me. And I expected him to step the fvck up. But that's just me. 





Anonymous07 said:


> That's why I mentioned to make the appointment for him(not making it about sex, but about general health - like a yearly physical) and then offer to go along for support. She can also offer to have her own physical done, so he isn't the only one going in for an appointment.
> 
> It's extremely important that he sees a doctor to rule out possible health issues.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Anonymous,
> There is one aspect of this medical check that will be very, very problematic.
> 
> If he goes in at all, he's going to tell the doctor that he's perfectly healthy. He is NOT going to want to specifically ask for a Test of his T levels because he has NO interest in talking about his ED.
> 
> Maybe an annual physical will include a test of his T levels, but I don't think they will test those unless he asks.
> 
> That said, if I was CW I would be adamant that he get tested. And I'd be clear that it WAS about me. And I expected him to step the fvck up. But that's just me.


When she makes the appointment, it's easy to ask for certain tests to be done right over the phone. It wouldn't matter if he asks for it or not, as it is already written in for that test to be done. T levels are checked through a blood draw, so if she really wanted, he doesn't even have to know that test is being done. He just goes in for the blood work as an "annual check-up" for his general health. 

The reason I said not to make it about her and/or sex is because I think it would make him more likely to attend the appointment. If she makes it about herself, he will likely pull away and make this an issue she has(not something he can 'fix' in his mind). If it's about his general health and she talks about how much she cares for him, wants him around for many years to come, is seriously worried about his health, and so on, it can push him to actually follow through with the appointment. Otherwise, it might just put him on the defense and he won't go to the appointment.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> When she makes the appointment, it's easy to ask for certain tests to be done right over the phone. *It wouldn't matter if he asks for it or not*, as it is already written in for that test to be done. T levels are checked through a blood draw, so if she really wanted, *he doesn't even have to know that test is being done.* He just goes in for the blood work as an "annual check-up" for his general health.


I have to seriously disagree with this approach. "Hiding" the truth of the visit from him is akin to treating him like a child. Of COURSE it matters whether "he asks for it or not"!!!

CW most certainly SHOULD tell him WHY he needs to go to the doctor. Stop tap dancing around the "elephant in the room" issue. She suspects he has low-T or some other sexual hangup. *If he cares AT ALL about this marriage, he needs to go take care of his health.*

Otherwise, he may be facing a whole other set of problems.

End. Period. End.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sometimes lessons learned early are difficult to overcome later. I think the lessons he was taught about sex have stuck. Especially if part of those lessons was that females want less sex than males. So instead of thinking he's won the lottery, he wonders why he has (in his opinion) an over-sexed wife when he recognizes he's not over-sexed himself. Part of his solution is to control sex. 

Yes, it would be ideal if he would address this with a specialist. But he's resistant. And she can't force him. He decides the agenda of their lives even outside sex. So how is he to be convinced he needs help when he doesn't want help? When he feels his marriage is at stake.


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This guy is not going to the doctor to get checked for any health problems if he sees himself as a healthy young man. And getting checked for Curious' benefit is just not going to work. He probably sees her as oversexed and the one with the problem.

MEM's post above looks like worst case scenario, but this is where it is headed. The guy is in control of everything right now, and doesn't look like he wants to give it up.

At this point, I don't know what to suggest, everything has been said. Just waiting for another update ....


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OM,

Are you suggesting that 2/week at their age without kids is - over sexed? 

Because that's the pace he is currently unable to sustain. 

But that's not the issue. He was sure happy to convey his desire for one way sex (blow jobs). Doesn't seem repressed to me. 

But - other then blow jobs he claims not to know what he likes. 

That is simply NOT TRUE. He does know what he likes. 






Openminded said:


> Sometimes lessons learned early are difficult to overcome later. I think the lessons he was taught about sex have stuck. Especially if part of those lessons was that females want less sex than males. So instead of thinking he's won the lottery, he wonders why he has (in his opinion) an over-sexed wife when he recognizes he's not over-sexed himself. Part of his solution is to control sex.
> 
> Yes, it would be ideal if he would address this with a specialist. But he's resistant. And she can't force him. He decides the agenda of their lives even outside sex. So how is he to be convinced he needs help when he doesn't want help? When he feels his marriage is at stake.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> OM,
> 
> Are you suggesting that 2/week at their age without kids is - over sexed?
> 
> Because that's the pace he is currently unable to sustain.
> 
> But that's not the issue. He was sure happy to convey his desire for one way sex (blow jobs). Doesn't seem repressed to me.
> 
> But - other then blow jobs he claims not to know what he likes.
> 
> That is simply NOT TRUE. He does know what he likes.


He knows she would like sex every day and he doesn't. When my ex-husband and I were their age, once a day was our minimum. Usually twice a day. Often three times a day. But he doesn't want that or anywhere close to that. And I think at least part of it is what he was likely taught about sex being bad and females not wanting sex. And he's a controlling person -- which doesn't help. 

I think he does prefers blow jobs to PIV. Maybe he doesn't think they are as "bad" as PIV. I'm not a male so I don't know the appeal of one over the other but I would think PIV would be preferred if one didn't view sex negatively. 

I think he was probably being truthful when he said he doesn't find her sexy. The question is why marry someone you didn't find sexy. Or did he say it so she would back off. Shaking my head. He definitely needs help but doesn't want it. Maybe if he thought his marriage was on the line he would be more motivated to seek help.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Tech,
I believe you know that - I have no chip on my shoulder as regards LD spouses. I love mine. 

My forecast regarding CW's outcome is absolutely not the 'worst case'. It's the 'expected case'. 

I believe the standard terminology is:
- Best case
- Expected case
- Worst case

I'll now assign probabilities:
- Best case (long term healthy sex life): 2%
- Expected case: 96%
- Worst case: add in that he has an affair: 2%

CW has given us a huge amount of useful information. And he has given her a huge amount of useful information much of which she's passed on to us. 

My probabilities are based on applying the patterns I've observed on thousands of TAM threads to this situation. 

If CW were to ask 100 women who've lived through a long term sexless marriage to assess my probabilities I expect she would find they were largely in agreement. 

I expect those women would recognize this particular behavioral template near instantly. 




techmom said:


> This guy is not going to the doctor to get checked for any health problems if he sees himself as a healthy young man. And getting checked for Curious' benefit is just not going to work. He probably sees her as oversexed and the one with the problem.
> 
> MEM's post above looks like worst case scenario, but this is where it is headed. The guy is in control of everything right now, and doesn't look like he wants to give it up.
> 
> At this point, I don't know what to suggest, everything has been said. Just waiting for another update ....


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know when I give 'maybe' as an answer (especially to my children) - it means 1) I don't want to talk about it right now 2) I'd really rather now but I want to delay an argument because I really don't have it in me right now. 

I imagine he waits for you to lose interest and move on without and fight. But sees you in your towel for an hour and knows he's not going to win. 

I don't agree that she can make a doctor's appointment for him without his consent. I also don't agree she can get him to take supplements. 

There's something going on but none of us know what it is. He does seem to be cognitively moving through this at least. He has made improvements in the past year or more. I don't imagine it's his desire talking - but rather his cognitive brain doing the work and trying to take care of curious.

I think a lot of us would love to see curious leave her husband and find a new partner that is higher sexed and hear good reports on the rest of her life. And of course we all want curious to be happy. 

And then again, there are a whole slew of us here that could or should divorce and find other partners and live happily ever after too. We all want someone else to go first, am I right? Live a little vicariously? Perhaps it's poinient to see someone of curious' s age and think of how we could have changed our fates as well? 

(To nobody in particular. I just find myself wanting curious to make moves I am unwilling to make myself.)


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The frustrations in your posts are becoming palpable MissScarlett. I know I certainly have my ups and downs. There were some posts on oral, multiple O's, and more this past week and they really reminded me of what I was missing with my ND wife. I really had forgotten how much I miss having an orgasmic partner. She doesn't need nor want all of those things and more because her body just doesn't work that way. 

I'm sad more than frustrated anymore. I'm confident in my assessment of our problems now. I'm still holding hope that the prospect of divorce stirs something I'm overlooking in her, but I'm afraid there won't be anything else. I'm afraid our libidos are just too far apart to find a happy medium.

I have the feeling "D" or some other final resolution may go down sometime in November or December for myself. It's not as if life is terrible in the meantime. I still love her and we have our normal day to day lives to live.

Coming here to vent certainly helps a TON! I'm still reading and watching and still holding out hope, but in the meantime I'm also preparing for the possibilities. Sucks.

It's obvious CW and the others all love their spouses or they wouldn't be here trying. Best wishes for positive outcomes for you all!


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well yes, I do seem to be at a tipping point. 

And really you might look at my life and say I have it pretty good. And you would be right. I haven't had an easy life but it is a good life that I mainly enjoy. I have all the orgasms I want. Just never with my DH. 

Good life, lots of orgasms, why so unhappy and frustrated? Well, that's why. Because I don't feel wanted or desired. 

Reminds me of my infertile days when I wanted a baby more than anything and everyone around me got pregnant on the day they wanted to. 

This is a difficult board to be on honestly. There are so many in y situation and yet I can only hear those who have what I want. What I can't have.

Sorry, curious. Miss Scarlett probably needs to go back to the therapist.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sometimes I just pop into the CWI forum and look at the ugly that goes down for some of those folks and think THANK GOD I'm not living through the intentional pain being inflicted there. At least I live in a loving and committed relationship, even if I'm not getting the passion I need.

I have to admit though, there have been times in my discovery that I have almost wished it was infidelity so I could move on faster. I'm really am glad cheating wasn't the problem though. I know we can move on peacefully and be grateful for our time together. I've had 16 good years with her and I'm not too old to have 16, 32, or more years with someone else.


----------



## MEM2020

*Goals and objectives*

My goal here is easily and simply stated: 

To help people better perceive their situation and trend lines so they make major life decisions based on a realistic expectation of what's to come. 

I absolutely believe that in the vast majority of sexless marriages:
1. If the rejected spouse really knew what they were in for, they would end the marriage fairly early on. 
2. The damage done the the rejected spouse is actually greater than the damage caused by the 'typical' affair, it's simply less obvious because it's spread over decades. 


And I absolutely believe that in many sexless marriages, the refusing spouse is behaving in a manner similar to that of a wandering spouse:

For example they: 
- Lie frequently about sex related matters 
- Gaslight and Blameshift 
- Show a striking lack if concern for their partners mental health

So they are unfair, deceptive and selfish. A whole lot in common with a wandering spouse.

BTW: If CW2 would simply man up and tell CW he truth, whatever the heck that is, my view of him would change enormously. 


QUOTE=MissScarlett;10239585]Well yes, I do seem to be at a tipping point. 

And really you might look at my life and say I have it pretty good. And you would be right. I haven't had an easy life but it is a good life that I mainly enjoy. I have all the orgasms I want. Just never with my DH. 

Good life, lots of orgasms, why so unhappy and frustrated? Well, that's why. Because I don't feel wanted or desired. 

Reminds me of my infertile days when I wanted a baby more than anything and everyone around me got pregnant on the day they wanted to. 

This is a difficult board to be on honestly. There are so many in y situation and yet I can only hear those who have what I want. What I can't have.

Sorry, curious. Miss Scarlett probably needs to go back to the therapist. [/QUOTE]


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't have the time to reply to everyone, but I do appreciate all the input.

As several people have said, I absolutely believe he needs to go get checked out. BUT. He is a grown man. I can't drag him. And he refuses to agree or acknowledge there is a problem. He thinks he is 100% healthy and normal, and lots of sex or desire just isn't him.

It's hard to convince someone to go to the doctor when they feel fine. 

He fully believes I'm just oversexed, and if anyone needs to go to the doctor it's me.

I will be bringing up the conversation again, and really putting my foot down about it. But now it's just a waiting game to pick the right time.

Our sex life has been okay recently. Good days, blah days. But nothing bad enough to leave me in tears or anything. So it's hard to just out of the blue tell him things are wrong and he needs to go get checked. He will fight, and say, "look our sex life is fine." And it is right now. It's "fine" but not good and definitively not great.

I am really wanting to wait until we have a bad day, when I will have an example and some leverage to use. He seems to have "short term memory" about our sex life. So I can't bring up previous experiences, he will gaslight me, it works better when I confront him as soon as a problem arises. So there is less of a chance of him twisting the facts.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Scarlett you are right. He tries to reject me as gently and subtly as possible to avoid a blow up. "Maybe" is just a way to get me off his back without saying an upfront no. It also gives him time to think of other excuses to weasel out of it before he has to perform.

I also agree with the rest of your post. There are lots of people on TAM who should divorce their spouses if they want a truly happy life. I am not the only one that is in this situation. 

The sex is bad, but not all days are. I find myself with just enough happiness to stay. Such as last night when he snuggled me while we watched movies, and cooked me dinner because I was exhausted. There are a lot more pros in my marriage than cons.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've said it before but our main doctor is the mother to some of our closest friends, and we are pretty close to her. (Heck she lives a mile away.) I ask her questions about myself all the time, and I have no problems asking sexual questions. 

I have long considered telling her about our sexual problems and seeing what she thinks. I believe if she talked to my husband she could convince him to get tested. But I am unsure if that would be violating some sort of trust with him, by telling a close friend. 

I don't want to embarrass him, and I'd hate to think it would somehow get around to his guys friends. (She is very professional and I'm sure she wouldn't tell anyone.) Do you think he would feel betrayed if I talked to her about it, without his permission? I don't want him to feel awkward every time we are at their house. We are there a lot.

:scratchhead:


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think he would feel betrayed. Betrayed squared if the Dr friend initiates discussion with him.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Are you at the point of get it fixed or else? Cause if you are I would definitely try talking to her before walking. And then if he gets so mad that he leaves it won't make any difference.

To me the suggestion of he is gay or asexual don't address the issue of no morning wood. From everything I've read and we've experienced morning wood is not about desire but is the bodies way of keeping the penis healthy with good blood flow at least once a day, testosterone makes that happen. Being gay doesn't mean low T, being asexual doesn't usually mean low T. You can be gay and have low T, you can be asexual and be low T, butitbis not an indicator cause you can be heterosexual and like sex with females and be low T. No morning wood is usually indicative of low T from everything I've read.

Arginine or Citruline are what Nitric Oxide is converted from. Nitric Oxide production is necessary for an erection. Taking an antioxidant such as Pycnogenol with it will help it remain in the blood stream longer.

Testosterone boosters such as dhea or tribulus terrestris work for some but not for others. I can honestly tell you I can see my husband sinking down long before he can see anything is wrong. When his T goes down he doesn't even realize he is cranky until I mention it and at first he will have a hundred reasons why he isn't really cranky, cause he can't see it. He may truly not be able to see anything is wrong with his sex drive. 

As for the ED even much older men can have a hard time talking about that one.

I personally think he likes things like blow jobs cause he can just focus on how he feels and not have to worry about his performance.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He needs a specialist, an endocrinologist. Most GP's don't know a great deal about low-T. They sometimes do tests and if their t levels come back within the low/normal range, they dismiss any problems. That happened with my husband. He finally saw a endocrinologist who actually specialized in the area and he has helped my husband a great deal.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Of course it makes me feel loved and connected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could not tell you if it works that way for him. He is a man of very few words, and getting anything serious out of him is like pulling teeth. He has never said sex makes him feel loved and connected, but who knows if it does or doesn't. Unfortunately I'm not a mind reader. And he isn't too giddy about verbally sharing his feelings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, when he rejects me it does make me feel unloved and unimportant. Even when he doesn't "really" reject me, it still feels like a rejection half the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example. Yesterday he had our day planned out and it was busy, so I made the comment, asking about if we would have enough time for sex. He said we will see. Then later when we were free and he was getting in the shower, I asked him if we could have sex. (We like to start in the shower.) He said, "Maybe after I eat, and clean the bedroom. But you're welcome to get in the shower with me."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just can't even describe how his "maybe" and "we'll see" answers bug me. I just want a yes or a no. He always leaves me hanging, and wondering. It is also never when I ask. It's always after xyz. But I went ahead and got in the shower thinking maybe we could at least make out or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second I got in, he slid out the other side. Boo. So I took a long shower and after I got out I didn't know whether I should just get dressed or if he actually wanted to have sex. So I walked around in a towel for an hour. While he cleaned, ate, played on my phone, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then he initiated. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal to have to wait an hour, but he does this every single time. I'd be perfectly happy if he would just say, "I'd love to have sex, but I'm starving, so right after I eat okay." But it's always maybe. And then he just completely ignores me until he is done doing whatever and then he expects me to just be hot and rearing to go. While I'm sitting around getting turned off the entire time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is so frustrating.




I expected it makes you feel loved and connected, and rejection just the opposite but multiplied by 10.



I would bet it does not work that way for him. If you have not yet convincingly conveyed this difference and the toll it is taking on you, then perhaps that is worth a shot.



Communicating it to my wife had one drawback -- awareness made her feel bad and increased her motivations to withdraw. But on the net, the real world is the only one where a relationship can exist and thrive.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Scarlett, so sorry to hear you are still struggling. I know how much it hurts when you don't feel desired and I say a prayer everytime I see someone talk about the pain. I wish you lots of luck!


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I know when I give 'maybe' as an answer (especially to my children) - it means 1) I don't want to talk about it right now 2) I'd really rather now but I want to delay an argument because I really don't have it in me right now.
> 
> I imagine he waits for you to lose interest and move on without and fight. But sees you in your towel for an hour and knows he's not going to win.
> 
> I don't agree that she can make a doctor's appointment for him without his consent. I also don't agree she can get him to take supplements.
> 
> There's something going on but none of us know what it is. He does seem to be cognitively moving through this at least. He has made improvements in the past year or more. I don't imagine it's his desire talking - but rather his cognitive brain doing the work and trying to take care of curious.
> 
> *I think a lot of us would love to see curious leave her husband and find a new partner that is higher sexed and hear good reports on the rest of her life. And of course we all want curious to be happy. *
> 
> *And then again, there are a whole slew of us here that could or should divorce and find other partners and live happily ever after too. We all want someone else to go first, am I right? Live a little vicariously? Perhaps it's poinient to see someone of curious' s age and think of how we could have changed our fates as well? *
> 
> (To nobody in particular. I just find myself wanting curious to make moves I am unwilling to make myself.)


The first part, you are absolutely right! I think everyone here wants curious to be happy. The only reason some people, including me, would like her to leave is... we've lived it, some of us are still living it and we know it never gets where you REALLY want it to be. Having some years behind us, we don't want to see curious spend years fighting this only to end up leaving anyway. Most of us wish we had those early 20's back and with the right partner. We can't have it back, but curious CAN!

The second part, there are several people here who have "gone first." How many do you need? I was 38 when I finally moved on. Happy did it too. I started a thread asking people who did move on, and I did not get one response where the outcome was not better.

So while I would certainly say give it a shot. Try to work it out. I would also say set a time limit, set a realistic expectation of progress, and set a minimum level of "give a $hit" you will tolerate from your partner. Any of those are not met... hit the road. You have a better understanding of what you need from your partner now. Don't settle, and you WILL be happier.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The scenario you described where you got your hopes up yet he ultimately did not deliver is one I am familiar with.



From the outside, and having read very few other posts of yours, my initial impression was he was being very passive aggressive and manipulative. Are there cases where he clearly to you is being passive aggressive?



In any case, it seems necessary to convey to him the emotional toll that took on you. If he cannot trouble himself to get checked out medically, you still expect him to say what he means and follow through on what he says. Anything short of that is beyond the pale.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I wouldn't depend on our family doctor to treat his low T. But she is adamant about taking the medicines you need to be healthy. So I think she would want to get him tested, and then if he came back low she would push for him to see a specialist.

I guess what I want is just someone else to tell him he needs help. Because he doesn't listen to me. But I think an outside party would convince him more than I ever could. He respects her input, so if she told him to go to a specialist, I think he would.

But I also don't want him to tell like I went behind his back and shared all his deepest secrets to a friend.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Perhaps you could tell him you want to talk to the family doctor, because you are worried about whether there could be something physically wrong with him. Do you think he would say, "OK, ask her, but she needs to promise not to tell anyone else?"

Of course, she will say he needs to get checked out.


Alternatively, you could say you INTEND to talk to the family doctor about it, because he refuses to pursue it with any other medical professional, and you don't know where else to turn. Then talk to her, and tell him the result.

Offhand, it seems like there is an advantage to warning him up front that you plan to talk with her...less room for him to play the victim card later. If he wants to do something about it before you talk to her -- like go so some new specialist three towns over -- then he can. If he doesn't like it that you follow through with what you told him you would do, then maybe he should get used to it.... You are not going to be held hostage by his passivity any more.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I really wouldn't do anything that might be taken as a breach of trust. That might do more harm than good. Keep pulling up your big girl panties and keep tackling it straight on with him.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

There is also the option of telling him you intend to talk to the family doctor, and then when he protest tell him you will take that under consideration...and leave yourself uncommitted.



You can decide to talk or not talk later.



He needs to feel that he does not get to control how you react to his indifference to you.



Maybe you need to feel that yourself.



Both before the deadlock rots the relationship beyond repair.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's not his testosterone. If the man frequently asks for BJ's his T is fine. 

He is passive aggressive, conflict avoidant, sexually self centered, and passively controlling. Because of all that, he won't seek answers, nor will he even question his inability to keep an erection.

FaithfulWife, who undoubtedly knows what she's talking about insists the man is just LD. While this may be true, if my memory serves, back when you started this thread he was getting several BJ's per week. That doesn't seem like a low drive person.

Don't know how long his ED has been going on but if it has been a long time, or an always had this but not every time, then a medical dx is not likely to proved answers or remediation.

So what needs to happen for this relationship to meet your expectations is for your husband to essentially hurt bad enough and long enough so that he will more likely look to himself to find the answers.

And curious, you're not ready to do that.

I understand. I'm there myself, as are so many other people on this thread. Only we're much older and we've spent years and years and now we are at the point where separating/divorcing would cause so much heartache to so many innocent bystanders we are trapped.

None of us want that for you Curious. We see you standing in the same spot we were 20 years ago. We are your future and it's not a future we want, nor want for you.

Because bottom line, he won't change. But you will.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've known of several guys who are happy to get bj's but have no real sex drive. The desire to "get off" is not the same as the desire and drive to have partnered sex.

Having partnered sex is an unnecessarily complicated way to "get off" for an LD person. It is not uncommon for asexual people to masturbate. (I'm not saying CW's husband is asexual, I'm just making the point that partnered sex is not the same as masturbation or one way sex like a unreciprocated BJ).

So his desire to receive BJ's yet not want to reciprocate or have sex, to me, means nothing. It definitely doesn't mean he "has a sex drive". It means he "wants to get off". Not the same thing. Going soft during sex just means he can't mentally sustain the sexual act. It is too complicated for him. He doesn't have the drive or desire to "keep it up", literally. BJ's are very easy and don't require that type of mental work. And as I said earlier, that would be solved if they had sex once every two weeks.

Him having a sex drive for sex once every two weeks is NOT some kind of sexual death sentence, either. A lot of people who have a low sex drive are very happy with the limited amount of sex they desire, once they DO desire it.

Everything in CW's story is consistent with an HD wife and an LD husband.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I've known of several guys who are happy to get bj's but have no real sex drive. The desire to "get off" is not the same as the desire and drive to have partnered sex.
> 
> Having partnered sex is an unnecessarily complicated way to "get off" for an LD person. It is not uncommon for asexual people to masturbate. (I'm not saying CW's husband is asexual, I'm just making the point that partnered sex is not the same as masturbation or one way sex like a unreciprocated BJ).
> 
> So his desire to receive BJ's yet not want to reciprocate or have sex, to me, means nothing. It definitely doesn't mean he "has a sex drive". It means he "wants to get off". Not the same thing. Going soft during sex just means he can't mentally sustain the sexual act. It is too complicated for him. He doesn't have the drive or desire to "keep it up", literally. BJ's are very easy and don't require that type of mental work. And as I said earlier, that would be solved if they had sex once every two weeks.
> 
> Him having a sex drive for sex once every two weeks is NOT some kind of sexual death sentence, either. A lot of people who have a low sex drive are very happy with the limited amount of sex they desire, once they DO desire it.
> 
> Everything in CW's story is consistent with an HD wife and an LD husband.


I don't disagree with you FW and think you are probably right. I think the reason why it just doesn't sit right with me is because...that's it. That's fixed and unchangable. Curious's only option is to simply make do without. Find a way to be happy with sex twice a month.

Do you see any other options FW?


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

8 years ago on a message board I was part of, a woman came along with a story similar to CW's. For a couple of years she posted, and she got all the same answers as CW is getting here...he's gay, he's sick, he's repressed, he's "wrong".

Myself, I always just said, "no, just sounds very LD, to me".

The woman hated my answer, because as you said Anon, it meant there was really no hope. She wanted an ANSWER, the type of answer that means there is a SOLUTION and the problem will be FIXED.

I became friends with her off that message board and am still friends with her now, 6 years later.

Was there an answer or a solution?

Nope.

He's LD. He always has been. He was before he met her, he is now, and he will be going forward. He is not gay. He may have low T but it doesn't matter as he isn't going to do anything about it even if he does. He DOES love his wife. He IS ashamed that he can't meet her in the middle sexually, but he just can't...at some point he stopped even trying to. They have gone almost a year without sex at times, when she stopped initiating.

They are still married. They have a child. She doesn't know what to do. She loves him but it is waning.

The point of my story? Yep, there are no real options. You either accept your spouse for who they really are, or you move on. When you get to the point of moving on, your spouse MIGHT decide they can actually change, but most likely they will not. 

In my friend's case, she did start talking about divorce earlier this year. He still didn't change. He basically just said he would lovingly release her if that is what she needed. So now the ball is back in her court.

There are no other options.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I did also post a happier version of this type of story on CW's thread once...about a husband whose wife only wanted sex once or twice per month, but when they did have it it was awesome and enthusiastic and connected and full of love.

The husband was definitely not happy about the frequency, but he decided he loved her so much and the quality was so good, he was willing to give up ever having it more frequently in order to stay with her.

So one happy story and one sad one.


----------



## speeedbump

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He fully believes I'm just oversexed, and if anyone needs to go to the doctor it's me.
> 
> I will be bringing up the conversation again, and really putting my foot down about it. *But now it's just a waiting game to pick the right time.*
> 
> Our sex life has been okay recently. Good days, blah days. But nothing bad enough to leave me in tears or anything. So it's hard to just out of the blue tell him things are wrong and he needs to go get checked. He will fight, and say, "look our sex life is fine." And it is right now. It's "fine" but not good and definitively not great.
> 
> I am really wanting to wait until we have a bad day, when I will have an example and some leverage to use. He seems to have "short term memory" about our sex life. So I can't bring up previous experiences, he will gaslight me, it works better when I confront him as soon as a problem arises. So there is less of a chance of him twisting the facts.


Be very careful of falling into the trap of "waiting for the right time." That's why I'm still stuck here many years longer than I could have been. I was always waiting for the right time.

If she was in a good mood, I didn't want to upset her. If I thought there was any chance of getting lucky, I didn't bring it up because I didn't want to eliminate the already miniscule odds that I'd get lucky. If I had just gotten some, I'd think I didn't have to bring it up because it really wasn't that bad (reset sex), and since she enjoyed it so much we'd probably do it again soon. I thought, I'd just wait until after the holidays were over. Or mother's day. Or her birthday. Or the kid's birthday. Or my birthday. Or our anniversary. Or the vacation.

So then maybe I'd bring it up when we were fighting about something else. Or when she was already in a bad mood because I knew I had no chance anyway. And when we did talk about it, she blew up and went ballistic. Or started crying and got depressed. The discussions went so badly that they never got to a resolution and a few days later we were back to the status quo.

It's easy to slip into this pattern and then realize another year (or 2 or 5 or 10) has gone by and you're still stuck and unhappy and telling yourself that something needs to change. Don't let this happen to you!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



speeedbump said:


> *Be very careful of falling into the trap of "waiting for the right time."* ...I thought, I'd just wait until after the holidays were over. Or mother's day. Or her birthday. Or the kid's birthday. Or my birthday. Or our anniversary. Or the vacation.
> 
> ...It's easy to slip into this pattern *and then realize another year (or 2 or 5 or 10) has gone by* and you're still stuck and unhappy and telling yourself that something needs to change. Don't let this happen to you!


Well said, speedbump. I couldn't agree more. I lived your same reality . Too many years gone by...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I wouldn't depend on our family doctor to treat his low T. But she is adamant about taking the medicines you need to be healthy. So I think she would want to get him tested, and then if he came back low she would push for him to see a specialist.
> 
> I guess what I want is just someone else to tell him he needs help. Because he doesn't listen to me. But I think an outside party would convince him more than I ever could. He respects her input, so if she told him to go to a specialist, I think he would.
> 
> But I also don't want him to tell like I went behind his back and shared all his deepest secrets to a friend.


Tough one .. especially when the doctor is a friend.

You are right, you are in no position to tell him. And despite all the analysis on this thread, only somebody that really knows what they are doing, can test him and get honest answers from him. And that is the only person that is going to be able to offer any real help (after really finding the cause). It is also possible that slipping in a T test as some have suggested may not give any usable results to determine what is wrong. What if T levels are just fine - then where are you? Or what if T levels are way off? Will he accept treatment?

Basically, you need to convince him that something is not right, and to actively pursue answers and help. But that is impossible because to him everything is just fine, no issues (except the oversexed wife). Even the threat of divorce will probably not change his attitude (who gets a threat of divorce and thinks to themselves "wow, I had better make myself much better. I am going to go get professional help right now. Hang on honey, when I get back you will love me again." Generally they kick and scream and beg and make empty promises to do better).

Going to the Dr. and telling her about his problems is at best going to get you "have him make an appointment" sort of response. I have not met a Doctor yet that will do any sort of diagnoses with just a description.

I don't have any suggestion, just sympathy at this point for being in such a difficult position. A position that you had no idea you were walking into when you got married. You did your research, made you choice, and just came up with something less than perfect. Life has many risks.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

Let me get this straight. When CW2 was getting a steady stream of 'no strings attached' blow jobs, he consistently stayed hard.

But now that you're insisting on oral reciprocity his ED is happening even during oral. 

You are pushing on a string. 

And the only reason he's applying just the smallest bit of tension on the other side of that string is because he needs you to hold on to hope. Hold on just long enough to cross the rubicon by getting pregnant. 





UOTE=Anon Pink;10245114]It's not his testosterone. If the man frequently asks for BJ's his T is fine. 

He is passive aggressive, conflict avoidant, sexually self centered, and passively controlling. Because of all that, he won't seek answers, nor will he even question his inability to keep an erection.

FaithfulWife, who undoubtedly knows what she's talking about insists the man is just LD. While this may be true, if my memory serves, back when you started this thread he was getting several BJ's per week. That doesn't seem like a low drive person.

Don't know how long his ED has been going on but if it has been a long time, or an always had this but not every time, then a medical dx is not likely to proved answers or remediation.

So what needs to happen for this relationship to meet your expectations is for your husband to essentially hurt bad enough and long enough so that he will more likely look to himself to find the answers.

And curious, you're not ready to do that.

I understand. I'm there myself, as are so many other people on this thread. Only we're much older and we've spent years and years and now we are at the point where separating/divorcing would cause so much heartache to so many innocent bystanders we are trapped.

None of us want that for you Curious. We see you standing in the same spot we were 20 years ago. We are your future and it's not a future we want, nor want for you.

Because bottom line, he won't change. But you will.[/QUOTE]


----------



## CardReader

*Re: Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've said it before but our main doctor is the mother to some of our closest friends, and we are pretty close to her. (Heck she lives a mile away.) I ask her questions about myself all the time, and I have no problems asking sexual questions.
> 
> I have long considered telling her about our sexual problems and seeing what she thinks. I believe if she talked to my husband she could convince him to get tested. But I am unsure if that would be violating some sort of trust with him, by telling a close friend.
> 
> I don't want to embarrass him, and I'd hate to think it would somehow get around to his guys friends. (She is very professional and I'm sure she wouldn't tell anyone.) Do you think he would feel betrayed if I talked to her about it, without his permission? I don't want him to feel awkward every time we are at their house. We are there a lot.
> 
> :scratchhead:


I competely understand why you would be worried about if that method would upset him. Honestly, I think anything where you talk about it would upset him. If your not willing to talk about it to your friends and family, who are you left with? Which again, I see why you woudln't because they may talk about it and it get back to him. But are you supposed to suffer in silence? How is that fair to you? You gotta be able to talk to someone. (Other than this forum)

Personally, I'd talk to a doctor about it. Can you use a different doctor, one whose not a family friend, perhaps? 

Can you go to MC? IC for yourself? I wonder if hearing it come from another person, in a place of authority, will get him to go to a doctor. 

I take it he wouldn't be open to going to MC if he wont even go to the doctor? Instead of saying you want to go because of His sexual problems just simply say you're not happy and feel like You need to talk to someone and get help and would like him to go with you for support. 


Honestly, I don't know if that would even help.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When you're young and just starting out, you tend to be naturally optimistic about life. After all, you have tons of it in front of you. Plenty of time, you think, to work out life's issues. And sometimes that's true. But often it isn't. Not every problem can or will be fixed. So you wonder how much time is reasonable to give. You don't want to make a mistake. But it's easy for time to start adding up into years and then decades. With nothing really changing. 

LD people see the HD spouse as the problem. Not them. And as long as he sees you as the problem he's not going to be that concerned. Permanent change is difficult. Too easy to slide back into old patterns. So after you give him whatever amount of time you feel you should, and feel you can't continue, then you need to say that -- and mean it -- and see what his response is. Right now he has no real reason to permanently change.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MEM, I don't understand why you see CW's H as "controlling".

I just think he wishes his wife was happy with the sex they ARE having.

He has no clue what this is doing to HER, since he doesn't have the same drive or feelings. He is far too young and inexperienced to execute the type of sexual and relationship game playing control you are talking about.

He also has no clue (like everyone who is young and has never been divorced) that this WILL actually lead to a divorce. He thinks this is it, we are married, it will not change, this is happily ever after, I'll just sit back and relax and enjoy my wife and marriage. He is *trying* to enjoy her, but she's never happy. He thinks she is responsible for her own happiness. He's happy, why isn't she? That's what he's thinking.

IF HE KNEW that this WILL lead to a divorce, he would be acting different. But in the same vein...if he knew how much work it would take him to actually meet CW's needs, he might opt out anyway.

Where is the "control" in this, given his ignorance about how this will play out and what it is doing to his wife?


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

His refusal to look at the possibility that he has a problem is controlling.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I see it as ignorance and stubbornness. Yes it does control CW by his inaction, but the control isn't the goal. Not wanting to be told what to do or that he isn't "normal" is his goal. Typical of young people (and some of the rest of us, too).


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In fact, he could easily argue that SHE is trying to control HIM, by insisting he "change" and "find out what is wrong with himself".


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

I don't believe he is in general, a controlling person.

I am convinced that he is doing everything he can to minimize his sexual interactions with CW because he doesn't like having sex. As far as sex goes, I mainly see him as manipulative and dishonest. 

As for how ignorant he is, I believe that is open to a healthy debate. 

I admit that it's a bit difficult for me to believe he doesn't recognize her pain, her anxiety and anger. 

That said, it's possible that the thought of sex causes him enough distress, that he becomes primarily self focused when it comes up. 

His main issue, doesn't strike me as control. 

He does not like sex and that will never change. And as soon as he can safely shut it down, he will. 

He isn't low drive, he sexually averse. Different animal. 





QUOTE=Faithful Wife;10248009]MEM, I don't understand why you see CW's H as "controlling".

I just think he wishes his wife was happy with the sex they ARE having.

He has no clue what this is doing to HER, since he doesn't have the same drive or feelings. He is far too young and inexperienced to execute the type of sexual and relationship game playing control you are talking about.

He also has no clue (like everyone who is young and has never been divorced) that this WILL actually lead to a divorce. He thinks this is it, we are married, it will not change, this is happily ever after, I'll just sit back and relax and enjoy my wife and marriage. He is *trying* to enjoy her, but she's never happy. He thinks she is responsible for her own happiness. He's happy, why isn't she? That's what he's thinking.

IF HE KNEW that this WILL lead to a divorce, he would be acting different. But in the same vein...if he knew how much work it would take him to actually meet CW's needs, he might opt out anyway.

Where is the "control" in this, given his ignorance about how this will play out and what it is doing to his wife?[/QUOTE]


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Where do you see the aversion? Usually that comes about due to abuse or a really horrible sexual history with a particular person (YOUR view of it was horrible, doesn't matter the other person's view). The only thing that is beginning to look like aversion to me is that he is tired of being told by CW that there is something wrong with him.

Other than that, where do you see evidence of an aversion?

I agree LD and aversion are not the same but I see no evidence of an aversion.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is kind of sounding like John117's 'stupid vs evil' dilemma.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't see evil, controlling, aversion OR stupid.

I see ignorance, youth and "natural" LD (as opposed to situational LD).


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Well said, speedbump. I couldn't agree more. I lived your same reality . Too many years gone by...






Ugh. Same here. 





There have been good times along the way, and our children our a joy. But, imagine what could have been had there not been this constant distance between us, made possible by her indifference.





Imagine doing this another twenty years.





Sometimes I think my problem is I don't spend enough time imagining these things. It's hard to take action if one doesn't think about the possible costs of inaction.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he liked sex, just less frequently, he wouldn't act like this. 

And he either:
- wouldn't have serious ED or
- If he did, he'd see a doctor 

ED plus resistance to seeing a doctor = sexual aversion




QUOTE=Faithful Wife;10248673]Where do you see the aversion? Usually that comes about due to abuse or a really horrible sexual history with a particular person (YOUR view of it was horrible, doesn't matter the other person's view). The only thing that is beginning to look like aversion to me is that he is tired of being told by CW that there is something wrong with him.

Other than that, where do you see evidence of an aversion?

I agree LD and aversion are not the same but I see no evidence of an aversion.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But the ED is likely caused by him having MORE sex than his body wants, and is further complicated by CW's complaints about him...she seems so sexually "needy" and "demanding" to him...thus a vicious cycle which further complicates the ED. 

He does like sex, and he likes it less frequently...but he has never gotten to have it "his way". He's never gotten to just go a few weeks with no sex and recharge, he always has to do his best to at least partially keep up with CW.

How do you know that if he was getting it on his terms that he would still have ED or the aversion you are seeing, since he has never been able to get it on his terms?

She's not getting it on her terms either, but he IS doing it much more often than he would naturally want to by his own body clock.

Not seeing a doctor, I don't see what that has to do with it. He simply doesn't think there's anything wrong with himself.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He sounds naturally low drive to me. If you're drive is low it doesn't mean non-existent or you are non-orgasmic. It doesn't take much drive on his part to lay back and receive BJs if they were being served up as the main course regularly. It does take a higher level of desire/drive for him to WANT to meet her needs.

There may certainly be some issues with passive-aggressiveness or control, but in the end I think he's just avoiding the problem because he doesn't see the same problem she does.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> But the ED is likely caused by him having MORE sex than his body wants, and is further complicated by CW's complaints about him...she seems so sexually "needy" and "demanding" to him...thus a vicious cycle which further complicates the ED.
> 
> He does like sex, and he likes it less frequently...but he has never gotten to have it "his way". He's never gotten to just go a few weeks with no sex and recharge, he always has to do his best to at least partially keep up with CW.
> 
> How do you know that if he was getting it on his terms that he would still have ED or the aversion you are seeing, since he has never been able to get it on his terms?
> 
> She's not getting it on her terms either, but he IS doing it much more often than he would naturally want to by his own body clock.
> 
> Not seeing a doctor, I don't see what that has to do with it. He simply doesn't think there's anything wrong with himself.



And so, in order to rule out LD or aversive CW needs to go completely sexless for two weeks. No hand jobs, no BJ's. Nothing! Then in two weeks they have sex and if he can stay hard...and give her some decent effort and attention, he is LD. But if he can't stay hard, or if he doesn't give her effort and attention, then he is aversive.

Could that work to rule out which issue he most likely can claim as his?


----------



## Holland

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PieceOfSky said:


> Ugh. Same here.
> 
> There have been good times along the way, and our children our a joy. But, imagine what could have been had there not been this constant distance between us, made possible by her indifference.
> 
> 
> *Imagine doing this another twenty years.
> 
> 
> Sometimes I think my problem is I don't spend enough time imagining these things. It's hard to take action if one doesn't think about the possible costs of inaction.*


I vaguely remember thinking "can I live another 5 years like this?" the it became "can I live another year like this?" then it became "I don't think I can handle another month like this" 

Then I woke up one morning and it hit me, I could not live another day in a sexless and what had become a loveless marriage. I told him straight out we were done, he was both shocked and relieved at the same time. Sometimes it is better to set both of you free.

My guess is that the LD person is rarely the one to end things so it is for the HD person to take charge and take back what they have lost, that being they have lost a big part of their life.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> And so, in order to rule out LD or aversive CW needs to go completely sexless for two weeks. No hand jobs, no BJ's. Nothing! Then in two weeks they have sex and if he can stay hard...and give her some decent effort and attention, he is LD. But if he can't stay hard, or if he doesn't give her effort and attention, then he is aversive.
> 
> Could that work to rule out which issue he most likely can claim as his?


While trying to figure my wife out, I backed off initiating for several months. I wanted to see what she wanted. I didn't turn cold on her or retreat from sexual situations. I always remained calm, cool and happy around her. I gave her all the normal levels of non-sexual closeness if not more sometimes to test her responses. I just didn't outright initiate sex. I waited for her to either overtly or at least show some form of desire for intimacy. Sometimes her "initiating" may be as minor as just a little wiggle in the butt during a hug. If you're not paying close attention, you might miss it.

When she did show interest I gave with gusto. I took those times to see how much sex she could take before she started either non-verbally backing away from sex or outright letting me know she needed a break from it again. 

Her pattern developed into about 5-10 sessions of sex and then retreating back into her cocoon for weeks to months. I think she is probably pretty satisfied with once or twice really, but tries to keep going for my sake. If life gets busy for her, a busy project at work, family visiting, or almost anything, then she would never show desire during those times.

It was a hard process, but very informative.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

A normal male desire curve slowly drops over time.

Once every two weeks in his 20's will be
Once a month in his 30's will be
Once every two months in his forties 
3/year in his 50's






Anon Pink said:


> And so, in order to rule out LD or aversive CW needs to go completely sexless for two weeks. No hand jobs, no BJ's. Nothing! Then in two weeks they have sex and if he can stay hard...and give her some decent effort and attention, he is LD. But if he can't stay hard, or if he doesn't give her effort and attention, then he is aversive.
> 
> Could that work to rule out which issue he most likely can claim as his?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> A normal male desire curve slowly drops over time.
> 
> Once every two weeks in his 20's will be
> Once a month in his 30's will be
> Once every two months in his forties
> *3/year in his 50's*


GULP!


Run Forrest Run!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> While trying to figure my wife out, I backed off initiating for several months. I wanted to see what she wanted. I didn't turn cold on her or retreat from sexual situations. I always remained calm, cool and happy around her. I gave her all the normal levels of non-sexual closeness if not more sometimes to test her responses. I just didn't outright initiate sex. I waited for her to either overtly or at least show some form of desire for intimacy. Sometimes her "initiating" may be as minor as just a little wiggle in the butt during a hug. If you're not paying close attention, you might miss it.
> 
> When she did show interest I gave with gusto. I took those times to see how much sex she could take before she started either non-verbally backing away from sex or outright letting me know she needed a break from it again.
> 
> Her pattern developed into about 5-10 sessions of sex and then retreating back into her cocoon for weeks to months. I think she is probably pretty satisfied with once or twice really, but tries to keep going for my sake. If life gets busy for her, a busy project at work, family visiting, or almost anything, then she would never show desire during those times.
> 
> It was a hard process, but very informative.


That sounds like a very difficult situation to cope with. And it sounds as if you have found a way to not feel terribly rejected by it. That's fabulous!

Call me misinformed, or sexist, or whatever... But I believe that women's sexuality is generally much more complicated than a man's, typically. You guys have lots of testosterone without the estrogen to balance it out. I think the bell curve of hetero male sex drive would have far less variables to effect it than a woman's.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But here's the thing.

If I knew M2 was super unhappy about frequency:
1. I would research what is normal frequency for married folk in our demographic.
2. Once I realized that the statistical outlier was me, I would WANT TO GO TO THE DOCTOR.

That is, unless I disliked sex. 

And ummm - his dislike is not caused by his ED, nor frequency. It's caused by his dislike. 

Since he dislikes it, the last thing he wants is a medical solution lets him stay hard so he can do it more often. 





MEM11363 said:


> A normal male desire curve slowly drops over time.
> 
> Once every two weeks in his 20's will be
> Once a month in his 30's will be
> Once every two months in his forties
> 3/year in his 50's


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Mem, you know most men have an extremely difficult time opening up about sexual issues to doctors. That's a fact.

He may be auto sexual. I think of that as lazy and selfish mostly because people like that marry and make their spouse miserable on so many levels. Then they sit there and do nothing while the suffering goes on.

I really think the only thing to do is divorce.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> A normal male desire curve slowly drops over time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once every two weeks in his 20's will be
> 
> 
> Once a month in his 30's will be
> 
> 
> Once every two months in his forties
> 
> 
> 3/year in his 50's




Source?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sky,

You caught me. 

That was a totally subjective analysis based on - nothing.

While I imagine there is hard data on how T levels vary as men age: 
- T levels are only a part of the desire picture 
- There isn't a linear correlation between T levels and horniness

Besides, none of this matters with someone who doesn't like having sex with their partner. 




PieceOfSky said:


> Source?


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> That sounds like a very difficult situation to cope with. And it sounds as if you have found a way to not feel terribly rejected by it. That's fabulous!
> 
> Call me misinformed, or sexist, or whatever... But I believe that women's sexuality is generally much more complicated than a man's, typically. You guys have lots of testosterone without the estrogen to balance it out. I think the bell curve of hetero male sex drive would have far less variables to effect it than a woman's.


Thanks Anon, there were definitely times when I did feel terribly rejected. You can't help feel hurt when your souse doesn't show much desire to have sex with you. That's normal. I was on a mission to get to the root though so I just did my best to keep myself in check. 

In going through this I found my reassurance that she's attracted to me, genuinely physically affectionate for me, and loves me 100%, so that got me past worrying if she was rejecting due to loss of physical attraction or resentments. I found peace there.

It's just turned into sadness that we'll never be compatible THAT way. It sucks to know I have to give up this great life with a great gal if I want a quality sex life. It's also scary wondering if giving this otherwise great life up will be worth it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MEM, I'm not sure where you are seeing evidence that CW's H "dislikes sex with her".

I think he's just very experienced and lacks skill, and he is feeling constant pressure from her for being "not good enough" and having sex more often than he wants to.

So his reactions and conversations around sex are typically in a defensive mode. His wife is never happy, no matter what he does, or so it seems to him. (Notwithstanding the fact that he doesn't actually rise up to what CW's really wants in most ways, yet from his perspective he is bending over backwards, trying to fulfill her needs, and his own need to recharge is never considered).

He may say things like "sex isn't everything" or "sex is not the most important thing in the worlds, you know". These statements are typical of every LD, they do not indicate a "dislike of sex".


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes, he dislikes sex with her...because she requires more effort than he wants to give. Because she isn't satisfied with giving him BJ's all the time. Because she takes too long to orgasm. Because she expects him to WANT to go down on her. 

^ that is not an LD man. That is a self centered little boy who has no business being involved with a woman let alone being married to one.


----------



## tommyr

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> A normal male desire curve slowly drops over time.
> 
> Once every two weeks in his 20's will be
> Once a month in his 30's will be
> Once every two months in his forties
> 3/year in his 50's


WTF?
A normal male here, 48 yo.
My desire curve has not dropped one bit.
I would go every day, but wife limits us to 2X per week.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But ALL LD's ARE LIKE THAT, Anon. What makes him so different?

Every story about every LD wife has the same elements as CW's story. They all want to avoid the topic, they all feel the HD spouse is "over sexed", they all do not want to hear that they "aren't doing it enough", they all feel they are being constantly hounded for sex and they resent it.

Is every wife who behaves that way a self centered little girl who has no business being involved with a man let alone be married to one? What if the same woman was married to an LD man and now she has nothing to complain about. Is she still self centered? Or is the HD person the self centered one? 

I mean, I agree with you to a point about that...LD people really shouldn't be married to HD people unless both spouses are going to make huge compromises.

But why is there all this anger at CW's husband as if he is evil? He's actually acting in a very common way that is consistent with being LD.

Remember too, CW has NOT told him (because she isn't to this realization herself yet) that his behavior is eventually going to lead to a divorce. So she has her part in this, too. She is teaching him that it is fine for him to act like this, because she accepts it.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Well, what's so different here is that Mr. TCW is young and healthy, not some mid 50's geezer on his way to a sexual comeback (hmmm who would that be )

If they were my age we would all post a dozen posts each and go back to work, but it's the age and stage in life that is striking.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think there are different expressions of LD depending on gender. Have you ever heard of an LD wife who asks her husband to go down on her frequently, yet doesn't return the favor, nor show any interest in his pleasure? 

Youth and inexperience can be mitigating factors for fumbling in the sack, but once dialogue starts, as CW as begun, a continued refusal to desire her pleasure as much as his own can't be marked as simply LD, IMO.

But as I've said before, a woman's sexuality is much more complicated and it isn't always possible to tell the difference between LD and a lack/loss of attraction, or sexual inhibitions due to trauma or mental health issues. While it could be LD AND one of the others, it might also be just one of the others.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Exactly. My vote is control issues... And someone who does not meet his cultural stereotypes and expectations. 

Try to think what his end game is.... 'If we double the frequency next thing you know it's twice a day then what?' Followed by 'We can't have that'... (in his little cultural behavioral model that is).

That's the only rational explanation I can think of...


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John,
Do you believe that CW2 actually likes having sex with CW?

More precisely, if he had 100% control over frequency, but knew that his days of one way blow jobs were over, how often do you think he would initiate? 

The context is:
- He has total control over frequency and
- He believes that CW will be ok with any frequency that he chooses including absolutely no sex

Because I believe he wouldn't be anywhere close to once every two weeks. He'd be somewhere between very rare and never. 

-----
His refusal to discuss his turn on/turn offs, tells me that his turn offs aren't about CW's behavior (since she is desperate and would clearly change it). His turn offs are a hard wired response to the physicality of sex.





john117 said:


> Exactly. My vote is control issues... And someone who does not meet his cultural stereotypes and expectations.
> 
> Try to think what his end game is.... 'If we double the frequency next thing you know it's twice a day then what?' Followed by 'We can't have that'... (in his little cultural behavioral model that is).
> 
> That's the only rational explanation I can think of...


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As I recall, they didn't have sex before marriage and didn't live together so perhaps he didn't realize what it would be like to live 24/7 with someone who is always eager for sex -- especially if he had previously been taught females aren't that way. He probably finds it all exhausting and feels pressured and knows that as "the man" he shouldn't feel that way. So he tells her he doesn't find her sexy and that she's over-sexed and not to always grope him -- hoping she'll back off. But she apparently doesn't back off enough for him not to feel pressured. I just don't see this working. Neither is, obviously, happy with the frequency -- which will only get worse as the children he wants enter the picture.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Anon asked: "Have you ever heard of an LD wife who asks her husband to go down on her frequently, yet doesn't return the favor, nor show any interest in his pleasure?"

Yes, I have heard of cases like this. I've been reading about sexual mismatched marriages for over 10 years. It is NOT uncommon at all for a LD woman to want to be gotten off but to have no interest in reciprocating.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So MEM, do you think he just doesn't like sex with her, or doesn't like sex at all? I assume you're still thinking he is gay and doesn't like sex with her.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Best possible thing she could do - would be to completely and totally remove all pressure. She what happens when he gets to drive. 

I believe she is terrified of what will happen. 

If she manages to act happy and content without sex, she will find that every once in a while C2 initiates in a half azzed and insincere way. This will be him anxiously taking her temperature. 

She can just gently deflect him. And he will happily be deflected.

If CW does this for 6 months, by the end of that time, they'll either: 
- be at less than once a month
- or absent any pressure he will find his desire 

I'm sticking with my 96% odds on less than monthly. 





Openminded said:


> As I recall, they didn't have sex before marriage and didn't live together so perhaps he didn't realize what it would be like to live 24/7 with someone who is always eager for sex -- especially if he had previously been taught females aren't that way. He probably finds it all exhausting and feels pressured and knows that as "the man" he shouldn't feel that way. So he tells her he doesn't find her sexy and that she's over-sexed and not to always grope him -- hoping she'll back off. But she apparently doesn't back off enough for him not to feel pressured. I just don't see this working. Neither is, obviously, happy with the frequency -- which will only get worse as the children he wants enter the picture.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Anon asked: "Have you ever heard of an LD wife who asks her husband to go down on her frequently, yet doesn't return the favor, nor show any interest in his pleasure?"
> 
> Yes, I have heard of cases like this. I've been reading about sexual mismatched marriages for over 10 years. It is *NOT uncommon at all for a LD woman to want to be gotten off but to have no interest in reciprocating.*


I find that astounding. It's one thing to want to rub one out and not have any interest in sex, but a completely whole different ball game to ask for cunnilingus to orgasm then get up and walk away. Frankly, I thought that behavior was for the Dommes who wish to reinforce their dominance.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If a person is very LD, the sex act is typically too overwhelming to them to contemplate regularly. But getting off is always nice.

People seem to forget that gay people can be LD, too. (Yes, both men and women). So I've also personally known some LD gay women who really enjoyed receiving pleasure but giving, not so much. I think when you have a very low desire and drive for sex, it doesn't say anything necessarily about your desire or drive to have an O. And yes you could give one to yourself but many people find receiving oral much more pleasurable than masturbating.

Just because someone is LD doesn't mean they don't enjoy pleasure and orgasms. 

The same woman may have wonderful, enthusiastic sex once or twice a month. But push them for more often, then the enthusiasm and willingness will disappear.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I get what your saying I just don't think anyone, male or female but most especially a female, who asks for oral sex is JUST LD. They are also intensely self centered and lousy partners and my bet is that their self centered approach to relationships is what disqualifies them as good partner material, not just the lower sex drive. But combine the two and it is unworkable.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

You are skilled at getting to he heart of the matter. 

I actually have a very pragmatic view of this stuff, which is that the WHY only matters if:
- He's willing to communicate it
- It's actionable for CW/him/both of them
- It's achievable 

Otherwise the pragmatist in me says: They have a massive incompatibility and no way to resolve it. 

Maybe he's asexual. Maybe he just married a woman who he likes but isn't attracted to. Who cares. She'll be equally miserable no matter the underlying reason. 






Faithful Wife said:


> So MEM, do you think he just doesn't like sex with her, or doesn't like sex at all? I assume you're still thinking he is gay and doesn't like sex with her.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Anon asked: "Have you ever heard of an LD wife who asks her husband to go down on her frequently, yet doesn't return the favor, nor show any interest in his pleasure?"
> 
> Yes, I have heard of cases like this. I've been reading about sexual mismatched marriages for over 10 years. It is NOT uncommon at all for a LD woman to want to be gotten off but to have no interest in reciprocating.


Yes, these exist. They will take pleasure and feel they are doing him a favor to allow it. However it's not in their intent to provide any pleasure back, so they don't.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> FW,
> 
> You are skilled at getting to he heart of the matter.
> 
> I actually have a very pragmatic view of this stuff, which is that the WHY only matters if:
> - He's willing to communicate it
> - It's actionable for CW/him/both of them
> - It's achievable
> 
> Otherwise the pragmatist in me says: They have a massive incompatibility and no way to resolve it.
> 
> Maybe he's asexual. Maybe he just married a woman who he likes but isn't attracted to. Who cares. She'll be equally miserable no matter the underlying reason.


I agree that nothing is going to change and that the why doesn't actually matter because of it. I just disagree with all the red herrings people keep trying to look into.

I think "he's just LD" _IS AN ANSWER_ in itself, and it is sometimes the same answer for LD women. (Again, I mean naturally LD versus situationally LD).

Some people who are LD are also generous, self-aware, and understand that their spouse needs more than they do (like our friend Lyris). Some people who are LD are not generous, are not self-aware, are lazy and self-interested. IMO, it isn't fair to just expect every LD spouse to be generous and self-aware like Lyris is. People are not the same. No two LD's are exactly the same. CW's husband is lazy, immature, self-interested and doesn't understand much about marriage yet. That doesn't mean he is gay, was abused as a child, is asexual or anything else. Also it is MUCH easier for an LD woman to rise up to her HD husbands needs than it is for an LD man to rise up to an HD wife's needs. If an LD wife had to maintain a visible and rigid erection throughout the sex act, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be able to. So while Lyris is very loving and generous to meet her HD husband's needs, it is quite easy for her to do so COMPARED to what an LD man would have to do.

All I see here is a typical LD man, and a typical HD woman. There's no "why". It just is. It looks exactly the same as a typical HD man and a typical LD woman.

"Why doesn't my husband want to learn to play the violin?"

To me is just as stupid of a question as "why isn't my husband different?" in some other way, such as being more sexual.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

A spouse that is LD but naturally empathetic would probably work much harder at trying to accommodate their partner. Those with lower levels of empathy will not find that so easy. 

My wife is not an uncaring b*tch by any means, but she is not naturally empathetic. She doesn't feel my distress about this so she lacks that clue to drive her to accommodate me more. It's in her wiring.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

FW, at the individual level you're right, people are different. But at the population level they're all pretty close to each other. Unless they're outliers. TCW2 is a few standard deviations off the mean if you wanted to discuss, say, frequency or importance in health males 25-30. It's hard to deal with this.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> FW, at the individual level you're right, people are different. But at the population level they're all pretty close to each other. Unless they're outliers. TCW2 is a few standard deviations off the mean if you wanted to discuss, say, frequency or importance in health males 25-30. It's hard to deal with this.


I agree!

Okay folks, we've got this all worked out now. Curious, you can come back now. We have you action plan for you...:rofl:


----------



## manticore

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The sex is bad, but not all days are. I find myself with just enough happiness to stay. Such as last night when he snuggled me while we watched movies, and cooked me dinner because I was exhausted. There are a lot more pros in my marriage than cons.


Sex is important but to have a caring partner is as important as sex, you seem to be fulfilled in the emotional needs and the physical needs are the ones that are lacking.

I maybe would ask you, is really sex that bad or is more that you focus in the times that he feels forced, I have read many of your post and it seems that there are days when you express that the sessions were pretty good.

don't missunderstand me, I am not trying to turn this against you, is more of trying to give you a new perspective, the simple fact that he is aware of the problem and trying (in a way) is good, I feel for other users whose wives/husbands does not even care a little to try to pretend to care about their needs.

I guess that all is about perspectives probably just as you think that if he just could have more sex drive everything would be alright he propably thinks that if you just could have less sex driv everything would be alright, i hape the 2 of you can find the middle point of this matter


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Holland said:


> I vaguely remember thinking "can I live another 5 years like this?" the it became "can I live another year like this?" then it became "I don't think I can handle another month like this"
> 
> Then I woke up one morning and it hit me, I could not live another day in a sexless and what had become a loveless marriage. I told him straight out we were done, he was both shocked and relieved at the same time. Sometimes it is better to set both of you free.
> 
> My guess is that the LD person is rarely the one to end things so it is for the HD person to take charge and take back what they have lost, that being they have lost a big part of their life.


Holland, this post really haunts me. I've gone through the same thoughts "can I live another 5 years like this?" then it became "can I live another year like this?" etc..... 

I'm currently at "can I handle another month", but I've had a few moments where I was close to just telling her "Love you, but I can't do it no more" and jumping in my truck. It sucks.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> FW, *at the individual level you're right*, people are different. But at the population level they're all pretty close to each other. Unless they're *outliers*. TCW2 is a few standard deviations off the mean if you wanted to discuss, say, frequency or importance in health males 25-30. *It's hard to deal with this*.


Even if we put him in a 1% category, that still means 1 in every 100 hundred males his age you encounter are similar to him. That's a LOT of people. Why is it so hard to deal with? 

If I'm wrong and a "reason" pops up (extremely low T, repression she didn't know about, etc), CW will let us know and what I'm guessing will be swiped away. And I would be happy for that outcome if it included some way to remove or push aside whatever the road block is. I don't think she should continue looking for that type of "reason" however. She should just focus on what she really wants out of this if she had to assume nothing would change in their sex life at all.

Edited to add: I don't mean to say CW shouldn't continue to ask her husband to meet her needs, ask him to go to counseling with her, encourage him to go to the doctor, insist that he talk about their sex life with her, etc. I definitely think if she wants to stay in this marriage and get the sex life she wants, she's going to have to lead the whole thing herself. Her sex life could change, but it won't be by his doing. I figure Anon knows what I'm sayin'.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

It isn't going to be 1 in a 100 in a nicely randomized study of say 25-30 year old healthy married males. Not if you go by his desired frequency vs partner availability data...

It's easy to say 1 in 100 if your group includes a wide swath of 25-30 year olds, but drill down to your target population and the odds change.

SPSS is your friend


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Even if we put him in a 1% category, that still means 1 in every 100 hundred males his age you encounter are similar to him. That's a LOT of people. Why is it so hard to deal with?
> 
> If I'm wrong and a "reason" pops up (extremely low T, repression she didn't know about, etc), CW will let us know and what I'm guessing will be swiped away. And I would be happy for that outcome if it included some way to remove or push aside whatever the road block is. I don't think she should continue looking for that type of "reason" however. She should just focus on what she really wants out of this if she had to assume nothing would change in their sex life at all.
> 
> Edited to add: I don't mean to say CW shouldn't continue to ask her husband to meet her needs, ask him to go to counseling with her, encourage him to go to the doctor, insist that he talk about their sex life with her, etc.* I definitely think if she wants to stay in this marriage and get the sex life she wants, she's going to have to lead the whole thing herself. Her sex life could change, but it won't be by his doing. I figure Anon knows what I'm sayin'.*



I say again... Run Forrest Run!


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I agree that nothing is going to change and that the why doesn't actually matter because of it.
> ...
> CW's husband is lazy, immature, self-interested and doesn't understand much about marriage *yet*.


That "yet" got me thinking. Even if by all cold hard logic, someone's situation is not going to improve (and I'm thinking about all kinds of stuff in life -- not just marriage) I wonder if the person is likely better off, or worse off, living in denial and maintaining hope that improvement is possible?

If someone has incurable cancer, I can see how they could be better off believing a miraculous cure will soon be discovered. If someone has an incurable marriage, you might argue maintaining hope for improvement is a different thing altogether, since it's delaying curative action (divorce). But I'm not sure there's necessarily such a difference.

For one thing, most marriages are are more gray, than black & white, and things might improve, at least to some degree (the "yet"). But beyond that, the "hope" still lifts the spirit in the same way!

I guess what I'm saying, is that if Curious, or anyone else, informed me that she'd ended her troubled marriage, I wouldn't condemn her for being a quitter. But I can't imaging having enough wisdom to advise her to give up on hope for improvement and to divorce, even if I had a much bigger window into the facts of her marriage. Hummm.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tommyr said:


> WTF?
> A normal male here, 48 yo.
> My desire curve has not dropped one bit.
> I would go every day, but wife limits us to 2X per week.


Yeah, I'm 52, and although I know memory can play funny tricks, I'm pretty sure my overall sexual desire level has not changed much in my adult life. My body weight has varied significantly, more than once, over the years, and that hasn't made an iota of difference, either. I'm always curious when I hear contrary reports from other people.


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Better off facing the facts.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> And so, in order to rule out LD or aversive CW needs to go completely sexless for two weeks. No hand jobs, no BJ's. Nothing! Then in two weeks they have sex and if he can stay hard...and give her some decent effort and attention, he is LD. But if he can't stay hard, or if he doesn't give her effort and attention, then he is aversive.
> 
> Could that work to rule out which issue he most likely can claim as his?


To be clear, we HAVE went 2 weeks without sex after a previous blow up about him not meeting my needs. 

Also he DOES stay harder the longer we go without sex. After period week, he stays hard much easier.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have to agree with Faithful Wife. I don't find him turning me down controlling. It never comes off that way to me. It comes off as:

He doesn't desire me.
He doesn't care for sex.
I'm not a priority.
He is lazy.
He is selfish.

Never does he try to barter or get something out of rejecting me. He doesn't say, "We can have sex, if you let me go hang out with friends, or xyz."

It just honestly seems like something that isn't that important to him. I don't see him doing it to be mean, or controlling. He just doesn't have the desire I do.

When we have sex, he does try to meet my needs. Always. If I ask him to do something, or say something, or touch something he will. He just doesn't have that raw passion that I wish for. It's all just very bland and mechanical. But it's hard to fake enthusiasm for something you don't particularly care for.

As manticore mentioned. There are days when it goes well. He is aware, and he does try. (He feels like he is trying a lot.) Many people would probably be happy with the sex life he is happy to provide. Once a week or so. It's just my drive is so much different than his. Both of us are always unsatisfied. 

I can only hope as I age that my sex drive lowers to meet his more in the middle. I try to control it, but I just can't. Just like I'm sure he wishes his drive was higher but it just isn't.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What I really want to realistically happen is for him to:

Go to the doctor to rule out health issues.
Make me feel desired and loved.
Keep his promises, and not leave me wondering.
Take my needs seriously.

That doesn't mean he has to have sex with me every day, but he needs to fill that void somehow. More snuggling, kissing, flirting. Just generally making me feel loved instead of a bother.

He also needs to stop putting off sex. If we aren't going to have it, then tell me so. If we are, then don't make me stand around in a towel while you watch tv for an hour. 

If I am really needing to get laid, I want him to take me seriously. I don't mean that I'll ask daily, and he has to say yes. But once or twice a month that I feel like I am climbing walls it wouldn't kill him to just say yes, and then follow through without making me feel like a chore or making me wait until later.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

All of that sounds perfectly reasonable, easily doable and well within realistic expectations even for someone with a low, to extremely low sex drive.

What do you think his reaction and response will be when you present this to him?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> All of that sounds perfectly reasonable, easily doable and well within realistic expectations even for someone with a low, to extremely low sex drive.
> 
> What do you think his reaction and response will be when you present this to him?


I know what his reaction will be. The same reaction I always get when I tell him those things.

That he does take my needs seriously, that he does make me feel loved, that he does try. Blah blah blah.

He thinks I'm just being crazy and needy. Which points back to "take my needs seriously."


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know what his reaction will be. The same reaction I always get when I tell him those things.
> 
> That he does take my needs seriously, that he does make me feel loved, that he does try. Blah blah blah.
> 
> He thinks I'm just being crazy and needy. Which points back to "take my needs seriously."



Then welcome to the merry go round that never ends. It won't end because he won't significantly change enough to stand on his own and love his wife as she needs to be loved. You will always be setting the tone, calling the shots, marking the goals, identifying strengths and weaknesses, applying new skills, advocating for more, blowing the whistle for fowls and times outs, and restarting the game.

Some times things will go well and that will give you strength and hope to keep plugging away. As long as those good times are always enough to replenish your hope, you're good to go.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Then welcome to the merry go round that never ends. It won't end because he won't significantly change enough to stand on his own and love his wife as she needs to be loved. You will always be setting the tone, calling the shots, marking the goals, identifying strengths and weaknesses, applying new skills, advocating for more, blowing the whistle for fowls and times outs, and restarting the game.
> 
> Some times things will go well and that will give you strength and hope to keep plugging away. As long as those good times are always enough to replenish your hope, you're good to go.


Is that where you are at right now? 

How are things going for you? I haven't heard anything in a while, I hope things are going well.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Working through struggles, and at the moment I have hope enough to last a while longer.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Then welcome to the merry go round that never ends. It won't end because he won't significantly change enough to stand on his own and love his wife as she needs to be loved. You will always be setting the tone, calling the shots, marking the goals, identifying strengths and weaknesses, applying new skills, advocating for more, blowing the whistle for fowls and times outs, and restarting the game.
> 
> Some times things will go well and that will give you strength and hope to keep plugging away. As long as those good times are always enough to replenish your hope, you're good to go.


And



Holland said:


> I vaguely remember thinking "can I live another 5 years like this?" the it became "can I live another year like this?" then it became "I don't think I can handle another month like this"
> 
> Then I woke up one morning and it hit me, I could not live another day in a sexless and what had become a loveless marriage. I told him straight out we were done, he was both shocked and relieved at the same time. Sometimes it is better to set both of you free.


These quotes should go in "When To Pull the Plug" chapter of the "Navigating an HD/LD Marriage Handbook".


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

The biggest thing is to rule out medical issues... Sex improvement will be a welcome byproduct.

Maybe bicycle therapy . How's his stamina overall? Remember that the human body can do amazing things. If you had told me six months ago that I'd be doing 30 mile trips I would have lmao'd my guts. But I put my heart into it and did it. And my relationship with Dr. Frigid is struggling to improve - we ride together... That has helped. Not to the point of considering it fixed or anywhere near that but slowly... Maybe if we live to be 150... Health is important, tho, and that's my driver. Not relationship building.

Bottom line, check the medical side first then decide.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So, I'm a LD guy with a history of ED problems. Anything I can contribute?

I'm sure I've got a mix of physical and psychosomatic problems. The first time a girl put her hands down my pants, I remained limp (didn't know how weird that was at the time). Always had ED problems early in a relationship, but they'd get better in time. When ED problems first occur, they get worse before they get better. I love the idea of sex. 

Both My wife and I might qualify as LD. We almost needed to force ourselves to have sex once a week during some periods (mostly her doing, as she was smart enough to know that we needed the intimacy). I liked the idea of sex but the fear of possible performance issues made it hard to initiate.

But, we talked about it. My wife was wonderful and I was always willing to do whatever I could to address the issue. 

For several years Viagra and a high fitness level led to great sex, but still rarely more than once a week. When the fitness started going away (chronic health problems made it hard to exercise), I tried Testosterone shots. This increased my libido (without totally solving the ED problems) while the wife having gone off hormone shots decreased hers to nil. 

But we are very happily married and fought through it all. She found that marijuana made her horny. I finally convinced her (after 23 years!) how much blowjobs mean to me. The kids are out of the house. We find that the more sex we have, the more we want. And we're getting it on 4-5 times a week in one way or another. Marriage is better than ever (and it was never bad) and the intimacy is off the charts.

The secrets are: 1) You have to let your partner know what makes you happy. 2) You have to care about making your partner happy.

I'm not sure that Curious has let C2 KNOW what makes her happy (it may seem she has, but you really need to TELL them). I see little evidence that C2 cares about making Curious happy.

I'd say that MEM's forecast is quite accurate.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Story time.

Lady Convection is a dyed-in-the-wool artist. For as long as I have known her, she has loved to paint, mold, and build. She's good, too - good enough to have a small business in stained glass and polymer clay. Because she loves it so much, I find myself helping. I find myself discussing color patterns. I know more about stained glass and polymer clay than I care to. I apply varnish to her finished clay pieces for her. I even drove her to the Youghiogheny Glass factory in a rinky-dink Pennsylvania town, so we could see stained glass being made (which was cool, by the way).

TCW, I will let you in on a secret: I really,_ really_ don't like arts and crafts. Left to my own devices, I would never glaze another piece of clay in my life. My wife does like it though, so I do it all with a smile on my face. I don't mind, because it's important to her.

This is where your husband is failing. A good sex life is important to you. He _knows_ it is important to you ... and cannot be bother to make the effort.



TheCuriousWife said:


> I want him to take me seriously.


You said this several times in the same post and I think this is the heart of the matter. He doesn't. He just doesn't. I think arguing over whether he is LD or sex averse is kind of beside the point. In any scenario where he did take you seriously, he would be listening to his wife pour her heart out and would make a better effort to meet her halfway.

From what I have gleaned from their posts, Anon Pink and Miss Scarlett both have decent-to-good marriages to decent-to-good men, if you discount the issue of intimacy. (My apologies, ladies, if I put words in your mouth.) But IMO, intimacy is the only thing that separates marriage from a good friendship. If you don't have that ....

I feel like the harbinger of doom when we get on this. You've said the rest of your marriage is good. I believe you. But resentment is like a small infection. Left untreated, it will fester and get worse until the body infects goes into terminal shock. Based on what you have written over the last year, I project this becoming a marriage-breaking problem in the future - one you cannot just bury or cover up in the depths of your mind. AP and MS tried. How did that work for them in the end? TCW, can you live like this for another forty years? Do you want to wake up twenty years from now and suddenly feel like you have squandered your chance to have the intimate relationship that YOU want?

I don't know what advice to give, to be honest. Yours is one of the more perplexing and frustrating cases on the TAM. I'd like to shake your guy so hard his hair falls out. I am not telling you to rocket to divorce. I am telling you to be honest with yourself when you ask this question:

"If nothing changes in my marriage, in ten years, do I think I will be happy?"

Go from there.


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have to agree with the previous post. Sadly.

Lazy and selfish hit so many parts of marriage that it is deadly. Low sexual frequency coupled with a lack of other things like compliments and physical touch... Not feeling desired... But knowing they masturbate... It breaks you eventually.

You can't carry the sexual relationship on your own forever. It isn't sustainable. When they never up their game you eventually give up yourself. The desire you once had that was enough for both of you dwindles.

You might not even feel angry any longer. It just disappears.

And with that goes the basis for marriage.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW will have to get down to the classic strategy of putting 2 cards down on the table; one for a doctor, and one for a divorce lawyer.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
Has 3 discrete options. 

1. Status quo, which will result in her drifting into having children and then being locked in for 25 or so years

2. Maximum pressure: doctor or lawyer option 

3. Minimum pressure: take all pressure off and try to gauge his true baseline desire level 

My only hope is she avoids option 1. 









4x4 said:


> CW will have to get down to the classic strategy of putting 2 cards down on the table; one for a doctor, and one for a divorce lawyer.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If he has low T levels they should be corrected before she can establish a baseline with him.

I may have missed some details in the Low-T side of the discussion. I'm not well versed in that subject.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> 3. Minimum pressure: take all pressure off and try to gauge his true baseline desire level


I think this is a worthwhile exercise for any HD spouse with an LD spouse. I really liked 4x4's post about this a few pages back. But it doesn't actually accomplish anything except letting the HD get to know the LD spouse a little better. 

I think the best way CW could implement this would be in conjunction with some honest, heartfelt, open conversations about sex...about their individual sex drives and how different they are. I think it would be best to do it completely openly. Where they both know what the goal is...to see what CW's husband's body actually "asks for" sexually, how often it happens, under what circumstances.

If they could find this out together with the intention of working toward a better sex life (ie: he doesn't know himself in this way since they were virgins when they married), then they could find the ways and times in which he is more likely to want sex and be ready for it. They can work together to find the best ways to optimize his natural sex drive (he'll still have to do the rest with effort, of course).

Meh - maybe I'm just used to having to learn how to get more sex. Every relationship I've ever been in, I've wanted more sex than I've gotten. So in my current marriage (the love of my life and most quality sex and relationship of my life by far), I learned quickly and eagerly how to figure him out and optimize his sex drive. Of course, he is not LD at all. I would just like more frequency and no guy has ever been able to keep up with me, so it isn't him, it is me (and we have sex often, I'm just greedy, I guess and STILL want more).


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

I love your candor, your directness, hell even your bluntness....

I do. Echoes of M2. 

The reason I used to get paid so well, I was able to figure out how people (staff, customers) felt, based on what they were willing to do. 

That telepathy thing - I only have that with M2 because I know here so well. 

And CW, has little telepathy with C2. So she'll be going backwards having that conversation with him. Because she'll be completely honest and he will be carefully choosing his words to avoid giving her any clear cut picture. 

This is a guy says he doesn't know what he likes in bed. That makes him a proven liar. 

She got an HD spouse all right, High Deceit. 






Faithful Wife said:


> I think this is a worthwhile exercise for any HD spouse with an LD spouse. I really liked 4x4's post about this a few pages back. But it doesn't actually accomplish anything except letting the HD get to know the LD spouse a little better.
> 
> I think the best way CW could implement this would be in conjunction with some honest, heartfelt, open conversations about sex...about their individual sex drives and how different they are. I think it would be best to do it completely openly. Where they both know what the goal is...to see what CW's husband's body actually "asks for" sexually, how often it happens, under what circumstances.
> 
> If they could find this out together with the intention of working toward a better sex life (ie: he doesn't know himself in this way since they were virgins when they married), then they could find the ways and times in which he is more likely to want sex and be ready for it. They can work together to find the best ways to optimize his natural sex drive (he'll still have to do the rest with effort, of course).
> 
> Meh - maybe I'm just used to having to learn how to get more sex. Every relationship I've ever been in, I've wanted more sex than I've gotten. So in my current marriage (the love of my life and most quality sex and relationship of my life by far), I learned quickly and eagerly how to figure him out and optimize his sex drive. Of course, he is not LD at all. I would just like more frequency and no guy has ever been able to keep up with me, so it isn't him, it is me (and we have sex often, I'm just greedy, I guess and STILL want more).


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks, MEM. I enjoy your posts, too.

How does it make him a liar to say he doesn't know what he likes in bed? They were virgins when they met and he's never been able to experiment sexually the way HE would want to.

Did you know he has asked CW to strip for him and buy sexy lingerie to do it in, but she didn't want to? IMO, that was one attempt of his to find out what he likes sexually, and she was insulted by it. (Not to say that CW was wrong to feel insulted, he didn't say it in a way that would make her want to do it...but my point is, how/why do you think he should actually know what all he likes in bed when neither of them have experimented really much at all, not even with each other, not even the minimal stuff like stripping for each other?)

I mean at the beginning of her thread CW wasn't even masturbating. She felt "weird" about it. I think both of these kids are very inexperienced and don't know what they like/want sexually, they just have inklings at this time and she's trying very hard to get him to do what she feels she would like...but she has actually resisted a few things he has said HE would like. They both have their part in this.

What experience do you think he would be drawing upon to know what he likes sexually, other than his only sexual experience, which is with her?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,
Ouch.

I completely missed that bit about the lingerie and the stripping.

CW,
That's not how this works. As the HD partner you need to be at bare minimum willing to TRY anything your LD spouse wants. 

Maybe have a drink or two, but give it a good faith try. If it doesn't hurt or disgust you, and it revs their engine - carry on. 

Maybe FW is right. Maybe you are more of a contributor to this situation than it seems at a glance. 

FW,
I can't wrap my head round him not being able to say: I like being touched this way in this spot, and that way in that spot.

BUT - he needs to feel like CW isn't going to be judgemental....






Faithful Wife said:


> Thanks, MEM. I enjoy your posts, too.
> 
> How does it make him a liar to say he doesn't know what he likes in bed? They were virgins when they met and he's never been able to experiment sexually the way HE would want to.
> 
> Did you know he has asked CW to strip for him and buy sexy lingerie to do it in, but she didn't want to? IMO, that was one attempt of his to find out what he likes sexually, and she was insulted by it. (Not to say that CW was wrong to feel insulted, he didn't say it in a way that would make her want to do it...but my point is, how/why do you think he should actually know what all he likes in bed when neither of them have experimented really much at all, not even with each other, not even the minimal stuff like stripping for each other?)
> 
> I mean at the beginning of her thread CW wasn't even masturbating. She felt "weird" about it. I think both of these kids are very inexperienced and don't know what they like/want sexually, they just have inklings at this time and she's trying very hard to get him to do what she feels she would like...but she has actually resisted a few things he has said HE would like. They both have their part in this.
> 
> What experience do you think he would be drawing upon to know what he likes sexually, other than his only sexual experience, which is with her?


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I can only hope as I age that my sex drive lowers to meet his more in the middle. I try to control it, but I just can't. Just like I'm sure he wishes his drive was higher but it just isn't.


My sex drive has gone up, up, UP as I've aged (I'm in my forties). It was higher in my mid 20s than it was in my early 20s. Higher in my 30s than it was in my 20s. And now in my 40s... wow. My husband is a very happy man  

So I wouldn't pin too much hope on your drive going down. Its pretty widely known that a woman doesnt reach her sexual peak til her mid 30s - in some cases her 40s. And certainly I've heard of woman in their 50s who have more drive than ever before. 

The emotional toll this situation will take on you, however, has the potential to shut you down. Its a coping mechanism. Rather than continue to experience the pain, you eventually just go numb inside and stop caring, stop feeling. I've heard it described as "dying a little more inside each day". Until ultimately the drive and desire is just gone. But that would be a very bad thing, with a multitude of negative ramifications.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And I should have added: A man's sex drive peaks in his early 20s... so the idea of the two of you meeting in the middle at some future point is not likely, unfortunatley.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

_"I absolutely believe he needs to go get checked out. BUT. He is a grown man. I can't drag him. And he refuses to agree or acknowledge there is a problem. He thinks he is 100% healthy and normal, and lots of sex or desire just isn't him. It's hard to convince someone to go to the doctor when they feel fine. He fully believes I'm just oversexed, and if anyone needs to go to the doctor it's me"._

Fine. If he thinks you are the one who needs to go to the doctor, and that it is you who has the problem, then go. Have that conversation with him, let him say that to you. And then tell him that you have no issue with going to the doctor to discuss this matter and submitting to whatever tests the doctor deems necessary to determine if there is something not normal about you. Its time to start putting an end to some of his nonsense. Tell him that the two of you can go together and both be checked out to ensure that each of you is healthy, since there is always a possibility that there could be a medical issue on either side which is contributing to the situation between you. If you are willing to go to see the doctor, there's no reason why he shouldn't be willing as well. 

Tell him you both need to do this for the marriage. Remind him that he is a married man now. As such, unlike when he was single, whether or not he goes to see a doctor is no longer something that is entirely up to him, rather, he has an obligation to you to take care of himself and his health. There are things he needs to do for the well being of his marriage and for the well being of his wife, and this is one of them. You have raised valid concerns which could very well be related to underlying health issues. As your husband, he has a duty to follow up on what could legitimately and potentially be medical concerns because any medical problems he faces directly impact you and your life. ED issues can be indicators of diabetes, heart disease and other serious conditions. ED is not typical of newly married men in their early 20s so that is a valid cause for concern. 

Truly, when you lay it out for him like this, he really is being negligent as your husband if he refuses to go. What if turned out that there really is a serious condition underlying this? As your husband he has a responsibility to you to have it investigated. Because what happens to him health-wise or medically directly impacts you as well.

If he still refuses that the two of you go to an appointment together, where you both request a full blood work up (including all hormone levels) and discuss with the doctor any particular concerns either of you have (about yourselves or each other), then that's another FAIL for him, and there's more than can be said about that. But setting that aside for the moment, if he refuses then tell him fine, then you will go talk to the dr on your own to ensure that there isn't something that is medically or physically "off" with you that is contributing to these issues. 

That opens the door for you to let him know you will be discussing this with the doctor. He can not object or get angry, because you are doing so to ensure that there is not something hormonally out of whack with you. Women can have hormone imbalances involving elevated testosterone levels; higher than normal levels can result in a very high sex drive in women, but can also lead to a host of problems/symptoms if left unchecked. So its a valid response/approach on your part, and one that he absolutely can not object to. So he can either come and be present for the appointment or not. Particularly if he has indeed ever made the argument that the problem is with you or that you are over sexed, you can really use that as the inroad to discuss this issue with a doctor. He most certainly cant tell you that you cannot see a doctor to have yourself checked out. And obviously, you're going to need to explain to the doctor what has prompted you to come in. So now the cat's out of the bag.

It seems very unhealthy, I might add, that the two of you can not freely discuss these things with the dr because you know her personally. That's something else that needs to be remedied asap one way or another. Doctors have ethical obligations not to discuss anything about their patient's medical or personal situation with any 3rd party. It is highly unlikely she would disclose anything to anyone in your social circle, including her kids. She could face serious ramifications for doing so. As for herself, she's a doctor - she's not going to judge him or think anything less of him. ED issues are a medical concern not a personal defect and no one understands that better than a doctor. You need to either find another doctor or he's going to have to just get over it because you can not have a situation where you are inclined to avoid seeking medical attention due to personal connections with the MD. One day there could indeed be something very serious that needs to be investigated and having this kind of issue in the way of seeking medical attention could prove dire. (What if he found a lump on a testicle, for instance? Would he refuse to go have it looked at because the doctor is his friend's mommy?). For Heaven's sake, if you have to drive to another town, find another physician because having this as a reason for not seeking medical attention is unnacceptable.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> FW,
> CW,
> That's not how this works. As the HD partner you need to be at bare minimum willing to TRY anything your LD spouse wants.
> 
> Maybe have a drink or two, but give it a good faith try. If it doesn't hurt or disgust you, and it revs their engine - carry on.
> 
> Maybe FW is right. Maybe you are more of a contributor to this situation than it seems at a glance.


I don't know about this. He's also said she's not sexy, and sex-crazed. (I think also he complained about her odor but I couldn't find it in the back posts, so I may be mixing threads.)

The point is, the signal-to-noise ratio is very weak. It all sounds like excuses. Even if she tries these things, where is his effort? Where is he working to reduce his passive-aggressive initiation attempts (pace the towel incident a few days ago)?

He could care less. He likes BJs, he likes getting off (even if he is LD, per se). TCW stops those. He shrugs. She gets a vibrator and he frets but makes no effort to step his game so she won't want her toy, so it may not be _that_ big of a deal. (I got the impression his ego took a hit and he was worried what "someone" might think, versus worrying about his wife being fulfilled.) Granted, we don't have his side here, but unless TCW is an outright liar, I feel safe saying his whole attitude towards his sex life and - worse - his wife's is, "Meh."

I get it; she is the HD and has to try and entice her LD spouse into being more interested and figure out what works. However, I would not even call his desire responsive, which leaves her a mighty steep hill to climb.

MEM, FW, if you guys say she should have tried this to see if _anything_ works to raise his interest, I agree - for her own sanity, because she needs to be able to say she has tried everything. But based on past behavior, it sounds like further excuse-making on his part - "TCW, if only you did x, y, and z, I'd be excited." She does it and then the bar moves again. 

TCW, maybe you should do it and call his bluff.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Convection...don't get me wrong. I've never thought he is going to change, no matter what she says or does, short of asking for a divorce. And even then I don't think he's going to change.

But CW isn't "there" yet, so I'm not going to keep writing that she should be seriously considering divorce. Posts like that aren't going to help her. She has to come to that conclusion on her own eventually.

So please don't be thinking I think there is any real cure here.

IF HE decides to make it important to save his own marriage, HE can make many changes to this dynamic. But even if he wanted to try, if he knew how hard it would be for him, I don't think he'd try. There is still the minor possibility that he is low T and would take HRT and that will magically make him more interested in sex. I know this has happened for some men, so it could happen for him. But he's not likely to do that, and I don't blame him, I don't think we should be putting everyone on HRT, I think we should just work with who we are as there are risks we haven't assessed yet with HRT. He is totally opposed to it anyway and for that reason, I don't see any hope at all really, except CW making it clear she has one foot out the door.

She is years away from that.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Well yes, I do seem to be at a tipping point.
> 
> And really you might look at my life and say I have it pretty good. And you would be right. I haven't had an easy life but it is a good life that I mainly enjoy. I have all the orgasms I want. Just never with my DH.
> 
> Good life, lots of orgasms, why so unhappy and frustrated? Well, that's why. Because I don't feel wanted or desired.
> 
> Reminds me of my infertile days when I wanted a baby more than anything and everyone around me got pregnant on the day they wanted to.
> 
> This is a difficult board to be on honestly. There are so many in y situation and yet I can only hear those who have what I want. What I can't have.
> 
> Sorry, curious. Miss Scarlett probably needs to go back to the therapist.


I hope she brings back the answers for all of our problems, and soon. Get us a group rate Scarlett.


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I jumped through hoops for my husband and it got me nowhere. It made me feel worse in fact. I really think she should D. A lifetime of this is just a,waste.

even if you can read a person like a book if they aren't willing to be honest you can't have a conversation. they deny and they lie.

I seriously doubt that this young man doesn't know what turns him on. I think he won't tell her because its not her. and I don't think there's any way she can fix this. 

in a way the more she does to try to resolve the problem the less he's going to do. shw will become resentful because nothing improves and since he can take it or leave it he doesn't care one way or the other . she becomes more miserable and in a way that makes him able to prove all along that it's really her problem and not their problem. 

and when she discovers whatever it is that really does turn him on and find out that he's been indulging in it behind her back its going to hurt even worse . 

simply put, this is not a struggle worth fighting. 

it hits far too much at the core of who we are as people. to save all of our sexual energy for our spouse and our spouse isnt providing that outlet the rejection is incredible. this is a fast track to hell for the op.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> So please don't be thinking I think there is any real cure here.


Fair enough, I basically agree.



clipclop2 said:


> this is a fast track to hell for the op.


Sadly, I agree with this too.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,
True. She isn't there. And I'd lay 50-50 odds that one day she blinks and realizes she's - old - and is never going to experience the wild passion of youth. 






Faithful Wife said:


> Convection...don't get me wrong. I've never thought he is going to change, no matter what she says or does, short of asking for a divorce. And even then I don't think he's going to change.
> 
> But CW isn't "there" yet, so I'm not going to keep writing that she should be seriously considering divorce. Posts like that aren't going to help her. She has to come to that conclusion on her own eventually.
> 
> So please don't be thinking I think there is any real cure here.
> 
> IF HE decides to make it important to save his own marriage, HE can make many changes to this dynamic. But even if he wanted to try, if he knew how hard it would be for him, I don't think he'd try. There is still the minor possibility that he is low T and would take HRT and that will magically make him more interested in sex. I know this has happened for some men, so it could happen for him. But he's not likely to do that, and I don't blame him, I don't think we should be putting everyone on HRT, I think we should just work with who we are as there are risks we haven't assessed yet with HRT. He is totally opposed to it anyway and for that reason, I don't see any hope at all really, except CW making it clear she has one foot out the door.
> 
> She is years away from that.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Man, this is such a sad thread.


----------



## happy as a clam

MEM11363 said:


> FW,
> True. She isn't there. And I'd lay 50-50 odds that one day she blinks and realizes she's - old - and is never going to experience the wild passion of youth.


Yep, it will be MY story all over again. Sad, such a waste of twenty years. And even more glaring what a waste of time it was AFTER I met my SO, the most loving, attentive, sexually-matched, exciting man I've ever known. It really makes me realize how much I "settled" for all those years. It's soul-killing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Thanks, MEM. I enjoy your posts, too.
> 
> How does it make him a liar to say he doesn't know what he likes in bed? They were virgins when they met and he's never been able to experiment sexually the way HE would want to.
> 
> Did you know he has asked CW to strip for him and buy sexy lingerie to do it in, but she didn't want to? IMO, that was one attempt of his to find out what he likes sexually, and she was insulted by it. (Not to say that CW was wrong to feel insulted, he didn't say it in a way that would make her want to do it...but my point is, how/why do you think he should actually know what all he likes in bed when neither of them have experimented really much at all, not even with each other, not even the minimal stuff like stripping for each other?)
> 
> I mean at the beginning of her thread CW wasn't even masturbating. She felt "weird" about it. I think both of these kids are very inexperienced and don't know what they like/want sexually, they just have inklings at this time and she's trying very hard to get him to do what she feels she would like...but she has actually resisted a few things he has said HE would like. They both have their part in this.
> 
> What experience do you think he would be drawing upon to know what he likes sexually, other than his only sexual experience, which is with her?


I agree with everything you've said. We are both inexperienced.

But I do want to clarify. I'm not insulted when he wanted me to strip for him. I'm just shy. I find it very sexy, actually. 

Also I have LOTS of sexy lingerie, and I "strip" it for him. Just not with music, and dancing. I'm a horrible dancer.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



clipclop2 said:


> I have to agree with the previous post. Sadly.
> 
> Lazy and selfish hit so many parts of marriage that it is deadly. Low sexual frequency coupled with a lack of other things like compliments and physical touch... Not feeling desired... But knowing they masturbate... It breaks you eventually.
> 
> You can't carry the sexual relationship on your own forever. It isn't sustainable. When they never up their game you eventually give up yourself. The desire you once had that was enough for both of you dwindles.
> 
> You might not even feel angry any longer. It just disappears.
> 
> And with that goes the basis for marriage.


He doesn't masturbate. Just FYI.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

The take away point is not sex but the lack of a process for healthy discussion of items critical to a marriage. If there is no mechanism in place to discuss and resolve something that should be straightforward, what happens when real conflict with real consequences comes into play?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Convection said:


> I don't know about this. He's also said she's not sexy, and sex-crazed. (I think also he complained about her odor but I couldn't find it in the back posts, so I may be mixing threads.)
> 
> The point is, the signal-to-noise ratio is very weak. It all sounds like excuses. Even if she tries these things, where is his effort? Where is he working to reduce his passive-aggressive initiation attempts (pace the towel incident a few days ago)?
> 
> He could care less. He likes BJs, he likes getting off (even if he is LD, per se). TCW stops those. He shrugs. She gets a vibrator and he frets but makes no effort to step his game so she won't want her toy, so it may not be _that_ big of a deal. (I got the impression his ego took a hit and he was worried what "someone" might think, versus worrying about his wife being fulfilled.) Granted, we don't have his side here, but unless TCW is an outright liar, I feel safe saying his whole attitude towards his sex life and - worse - his wife's is, "Meh."
> 
> I get it; she is the HD and has to try and entice her LD spouse into being more interested and figure out what works. However, I would not even call his desire responsive, which leaves her a mighty steep hill to climb.
> 
> MEM, FW, if you guys say she should have tried this to see if _anything_ works to raise his interest, I agree - for her own sanity, because she needs to be able to say she has tried everything. But based on past behavior, it sounds like further excuse-making on his part - "TCW, if only you did x, y, and z, I'd be excited." She does it and then the bar moves again.
> 
> TCW, maybe you should do it and call his bluff.


:iagree:

He has said I was sex crazed, unsexy, and that I smelled. More than once.

It's always hoops. It's always "maybe if you did this I would want sex more" but I do those things and nothing changes. He is just scrambling for excuses.

I will admit, I have not given him a complete strip tease and he would like one. As I said I was never judgmental to his request, I'm just shy about it. I'm slowly working up to it, been practicing, and I have watched several hours of training videos on it. I would NEVER make him feel guilty or bad about anything he requested sexually. Even if it wasn't something I was not interested in, I would hear his concerns, and consider trying just about anything. (Minus bringing in other people.)

You are spot on about the vibrator. I think his ego took a hit, because he felt less of a man, or "what would people think" but it wasn't enough to make him think maybe he should step up his game, or really look at the reason why I felt I needed to buy one. 

He is very Meh. About all things related to sex in general.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He has been trying lately. He texted me sexual things the other day, and then followed through. 

He promised me sex this morning, and we actually woke up early and had sex before we had to be somewhere.

Today he showered me in kisses, physical touch, and just general sweetness. 

I just don't understand why he can't always be like that. He flip flops so much.

He is still having problems staying hard. It gets very frustrating. I don't make a big deal out of it, but it does bother me. I'm a G spot kind of person, and really like to be doing PIV when I orgasm. But anytime I get close he goes limp and has to be brought back to life. We constantly have to change positions, and it just isn't conductive to a female orgasm that needs consistency, and rhythm. This morning he just couldn't stay hard inside at all and we had to stop and finish with manual.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm struggling right now. My best friend is due to get married in the next couple months, and she is considering backing out.

His fiance is EXACTLY like my husband. It is creepy! He keeps turning her down, and just meh about sexual things. Identical stories. 

She keeps getting rejected and crying, she feels bad about her self and wonders what is wrong with her. She is GORGEOUS and super sexual by the way, I was always jealous of her. She wants my advice. I was truthful. I told her it likely wouldn't get better, and she needed to think long and hard if she wanted to be stuck in that for the rest of her life. 

I just want to smack her fiance. He doesn't realize how great of a catch she is. It makes me sad. They are great together, and she loves him dearly. So it will be sad if they call it off. But at the same time, it pains me to think of her suffering like I do for the rest of her life.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It pains us to think of you in your position, CW. (((hugs)))

Considering these are very difficult and complicated marriage/sex issues, you are doing very well. 

Before the internet, you would have had literally no one to talk to about this, no one who knew either way what was going on or even had any theories...there are so many people who have been helped by at least finding that no matter how rare it may be, there ARE others (in your case, other women) going through what you are.

Gotta give you credit for your tenacity, Chicka.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> It pains us to think of you in your position, CW. (((hugs)))
> 
> Considering these are very difficult and complicated marriage/sex issues, you are doing very well.
> 
> Before the internet, you would have had literally no one to talk to about this, no one who knew either way what was going on or even had any theories...there are so many people who have been helped by at least finding that no matter how rare it may be, there ARE others (in your case, other women) going through what you are.
> 
> Gotta give you credit for your tenacity, Chicka.


Can I like this post +100 times? 

What I wouldn't give to have this resource when I was in my 20's, or even 30's. You can never buy time back. CW is doing great, even if she doesn't feel like it some days.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm a horrible dancer.





Pretty sure that does not matter!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

The lens through which this situation is best viewed is not: right or wrong 

It is compatible or incompatible.

Both of you deserve compatible partners. He can hook up with a LD or very LD woman, and you can find a man with an average drive. You will find that such a man is very happy to:
- Have sex with you every day
- Give you oral to completion frequently / every time you connect

------
That said, it's not easy to find someone you love outside the bedroom. 

But I am certain, that you will be unhappy if you remain married. 

So you will be weighing the risk of certain unhappiness against that of uncertain happiness.......









TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> He has said I was sex crazed, unsexy, and that I smelled. More than once.
> 
> It's always hoops. It's always "maybe if you did this I would want sex more" but I do those things and nothing changes. He is just scrambling for excuses.
> 
> I will admit, I have not given him a complete strip tease and he would like one. As I said I was never judgmental to his request, I'm just shy about it. I'm slowly working up to it, been practicing, and I have watched several hours of training videos on it. I would NEVER make him feel guilty or bad about anything he requested sexually. Even if it wasn't something I was not interested in, I would hear his concerns, and consider trying just about anything. (Minus bringing in other people.)
> 
> You are spot on about the vibrator. I think his ego took a hit, because he felt less of a man, or "what would people think" but it wasn't enough to make him think maybe he should step up his game, or really look at the reason why I felt I needed to buy one.
> 
> He is very Meh. About all things related to sex in general.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, don't you dare do a strip tease for him! He doesn't deserve it! Don't wear lingerie for him either, where it for you if you want but don't wear it for him, you'll just be disappointed.

Stop acting like a puppy and start acting like a cat. Be aloof,turn your back, and make other plans. Do not get pregnant!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sadly it doesn't matter. 

He wants to like having sex with CW, he just doesn't. 




Anon Pink said:


> CW, don't you dare do a strip tease for him! He doesn't deserve it! Don't wear lingerie for him either, where it for you if you want but don't wear it for him, you'll just be disappointed.
> 
> Stop acting like a puppy and start acting like a cat. Be aloof,turn your back, and make other plans. Do not get pregnant!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree MEM. I completely forgot they were virgins till they married.

CW, if you knew your sex life would look like before you got married, would have have walked into the church with him? If you two had already been experiencing this one sided sex life, would you still have married him?

ETA: That is one thing I can answer for myself. Yes, the woman I was back then needed him, desperately so. I needed the calm he brought to my life. He was my only safe place and I could not have grown into who I am today if he hadn't been there.


----------



## CardReader

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW: Have you considered taking pole dancing classes, or something of that nature, to help with the dancing aspect of a strip tease?


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Maybe this was discussed earlier but it may be worth repeating.

TCW, aside from sex, could you share what has been the most serious/important/complicated decision you two have had to face in your marriage where there was disagreement between the two of you, and how it was resolved?

Did he want a Ford Mustang but had to be talked into reality and a less pricy car? Did you want a log cabin in the country vs him wanting an urban flat? Anything to do with jobs, college, grad school...

Just - pardon the pun - curious about the decision making dynamics...


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

173 pages and the wheels on the bus go round and round ....round and round
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Right, NewHubs. Because there's no smoking gun. He's LD, she's HD, this isn't going to change. People wish there was some "reason" to find...but "he's LD she's HD" is the reason.

Anon...I gotta disagree about the stripping thing. And CW, I want you to get over yourself and JUST DO IT. If you want to be a sexy wildcat, act like one. I understand Anon's advice to turn your back like a cat, and in some ways, you acting more aloof and hard to get would actually draw him in (and he has said so). But's that really only because you are putting PRESSURE on him. The pressure should be replaced by open communication.

Refusing to do something he might find sexy because you feel uncomfortable about it is just silly while you're also saying you want more sex. He is telling you things about himself that would help you get more sex if you would listen better and adopt those things.

For instance, the make up thing.

Ok I hear you...he has said before he doesn't like painted ladies. But then later he said maybe if you wore some it would get you some action. You feel insulted, not good enough, and like he's playing with you.

My theory is this: he tells you he doesn't like painted ladies at first because YOU aren't a painted lady and he likes YOU. It doesn't mean that he wouldn't also enjoy seeing YOU painted once in awhile, especially if it was done for his benefit and specifically to make him desire you.

I know you won't think it is the same because you and I have much different stories, but I've told you before, I've had very similar interactions with my hubby. Every man is very particular about what pushes his buttons, and you must learn those things. It doesn't help you to be indignant about it.

Yes, your H lacks communication skills and says insulting things to you a lot. He's a dumb ass. You get to be right about that, ok? But assisting him in not saying dumb things is going to HELP YOU and the way you do that is by not holding it against him forever...you discuss these things calmly and maturely.

You: "Huh? I thought you said you don't like painted ladies, that's a switch".

Him: "In general I don't and I wouldn't want you to wear it all the time, but I'd love it if you got all gussied up and seduced me once in awhile. The make up is just a prop that could be fun sometimes".

The first time I made an attempt to do a seduction sexy dress-up dance for my H was an embarrassing disaster. Why? Because I spent way too much time gussying up, worrying if I looked good or not (stupid crap we women do) and then when I finally presented myself after he'd lost interest anyway because I took so long getting ready, I sort of stood there like "well, here I am, ravage me, I guess". He stared at me for a little bit confused and then said "um...well, be seductive about it, tease me a little, get me worked up".

Whoa! You mean you're not worked up just looking at me standing here??

Some men might be, but my husband doesn't work that way. Being hot or beautiful alone doesn't do anything for him. Most women are beautiful and hot in their own way, that doesn't make them sexy (to him). It takes a very deliberate and confident (and nasty) seduction act to turn him on. I have to show him my authentic and very sexual inner sl*tty cat. I have to show him I'm invested in turning him on, for the specific reason of getting him to f*ck me. Not for validation, not for a power trip, but because I want him to jump my bones.

This may not describe how your husband wants to see a seduction dance...I'm just sharing my experience to hopefully get you to recognize that the ONLY small glimpses he has given you have been immediately shut down by you.

Again...he's a dumb ass and he doesn't say things right. But you have to train him there, that's all there is to it.

I also used to say so many dumb, mean or insulting things, and I was not even aware I was doing it to him. As you may have noticed (sarcasm) I can be very blunt and too direct sometimes. I sometimes don't stop to make sure my wording will be arranged properly before I tell someone something I want them to know. It is a skill I am working on. But my husband definitely taught me very early on that I must arrange my words properly with HIM or he reacts very poorly. He has work to do in that area, too...but we've both trained each other pretty well.

Girl, I'm not saying doing a sexy dance will change the course of your sex life, it probably won't. But it is the one little thing you have to go on that you have ignored for no real good reason. 

Accept that he says dumb things and that he doesn't mean to hurt you he's just dumb, and teach him to do better. Then let him teach YOU that he is actually trying to tell you some things he would be turned on by and LISTEN TO HIM.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's as if Curious was married to an alcoholic. She keeps wondering what she can do to change things. Maybe if she could just say the right thing, or do the right thing, or ....

He's trying to blame you for his problems. But, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. Sure, you might have done some suboptimal things, but it's HIS problem. Nothing's going to change unless HE wants to try and change.

The only way he's going to be willing to try and change or even be willing to accept responsibilty for the situation is if HE decides to.

Apparently, the only way he'll try to change is if he wants to be married to you enough to do what's necessary.

You have to tell him you'll leave if he isn't willing to take constructive steps to improve the situation. Make sure to point out that it's not his sexual problems (which he has little control over) but his refusal to work on it and his continuing attempts to blame you for his problem.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

I can't be the only one wondering whether Mr. TCW's ideas of intimacy revolve largely around BJ's, stripping, and the like... Meanwhile when it comes time for PVI, things get pretty, pardon the pun, hard.


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you done anything to be certain he doesn't masturbate? Bug the bath and bedrooms?


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Look, my guess is that of she put intelligence gathering equipment into the house she would find that he is masturbating and watching porn. He didn't decide he wanted a strip tease because he is Mr Innocent.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I agree MEM. I completely forgot they were virgins till they married.
> 
> CW, if you knew your sex life would look like before you got married, would have have walked into the church with him? If you two had already been experiencing this one sided sex life, would you still have married him?
> 
> ETA: That is one thing I can answer for myself. Yes, the woman I was back then needed him, desperately so. I needed the calm he brought to my life. He was my only safe place and I could not have grown into who I am today if he hadn't been there.


Yes I think I would have.

#1 I would have probably thought, "oh it will get better after marriage."

#2 He is so much more to me than just a sexual partner. Like you, I needed him. I had a bad childhood, and he was the only bit of sanity I could cling to. He was and still is "my safe place." He has changed me, and for the better in most ways. Minus the sexual part of our relationship. 

Honestly our relationship was what I would call perfect, with no complications or problems until sex entered the picture. I can not remember a single fight we have had, besides sexual issues. And we've been together for going on 7 years now.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



clipclop2 said:


> Have you done anything to be certain he doesn't masturbate? Bug the bath and bedrooms?




I don't understand why it is so hard to believe he doesn't watch porn or masturbate. 

We've had open conversations about this. 

He thinks porn is disgusting, and I KNOW he isn't watching it because we've lived in the house for 2 years WITHOUT internet, or smart phones. We were remodeling and lived in only the bedroom for close to a year, so I can tell you every single thing in our house. No porn. It would be nearly impossible for him to even get access to it.

About the masturbating he did it a handful of times when we first got married during my period week because he felt bad asking for a blow job. He has told me repeatedly that he hasn't since, and I believe him. 

He also told me before we were married he didn't masturbate. He did when he was younger, but stopped for a couple years. He said he didn't care for it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't understand why it is so hard to believe he doesn't watch porn or masturbate.
> 
> We've had open conversations about this.
> 
> He thinks porn is disgusting, and I KNOW he isn't watching it because we've lived in the house for 2 years WITHOUT internet, or smart phones. We were remodeling and lived in only the bedroom for close to a year, so I can tell you every single thing in our house. No porn. It would be nearly impossible for him to even get access to it.
> 
> About the masturbating he did it a handful of times when we first got married during my period week because he felt bad asking for a blow job. He has told me repeatedly that he hasn't since, and I believe him.
> 
> *He also told me before we were married he didn't masturbate. He did when he was younger, but stopped for a couple years. He said he didn't care for it*.


Red Flag No. 1


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> Maybe this was discussed earlier but it may be worth repeating.
> 
> TCW, aside from sex, could you share what has been the most serious/important/complicated decision you two have had to face in your marriage where there was disagreement between the two of you, and how it was resolved?
> 
> Did he want a Ford Mustang but had to be talked into reality and a less pricy car? Did you want a log cabin in the country vs him wanting an urban flat? Anything to do with jobs, college, grad school...
> 
> Just - pardon the pun - curious about the decision making dynamics...


Like I said. Really very few to no disagreements.

We have pretty much the same goals in life, and values.

We both also have more calm and carefree attitudes. So as long as we aren't going bankrupt, or harming each other, nothing is really a big deal.

We are always considerate, and talk through things. Give each other a chance. Like paint colors for the house. I picked most of them because he didn't really care, but I let him pick one. I didn't really like the color he picked, so we just got returnable paint. That way we could try it out, and if I absolutely hated it we could chose something else. 

We are both pretty levelheaded, and agree that nothing is going to be sorted out by yelling or anger. 

He is more, "whatever, everything will work out." And I am more picky, and bossy. So I would say, day to day, little decisions are usually decided by me, because frankly he just really doesn't care. And not in a bad way. Just, other things are more important than what flowers are planted in the front yard, or where we eat for lunch.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Red Flag No. 1


Well I see it now. But remember I didn't masturbate either, so really I had no reason to believe that it was a problem.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The reason this thread is so long is because people refuse to believe that CW has already checked into every "reason" people can come up with. Porn, MB, having an affair, is gay, is asexual, CSA, aversion...over and over people bring up the same issues, she has already answered about them, they bring it up again, she answers again...round and round.

Maybe just take it on faith that CW is actually telling the truth, has investigated these things, and her H isn't hiding anything.

There's no smoking gun people.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> The reason this thread is so long is because people refuse to believe that CW has already checked into every "reason" people can come up with. Porn, MB, having an affair, is gay, is asexual, CSA, aversion...over and over people bring up the same issues, she has already answered about them, they bring it up again, she answers again...round and round.
> 
> Maybe just take it on faith that CW is actually telling the truth, has investigated these things, and her H isn't hiding anything.
> 
> There's no smoking gun people.


:iagree:

Honestly, I'm not looking for reasons, or whys. He is how he is. That is out of my control.

I'm looking for advice on how to cope, and how to improve what hand I've been dealt. But mostly I'm just looking for a place to vent and share my frustrations so I don't feel so alone. 

It beats talking to myself.  lol


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you ever thought that maybe he's gay?


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Have you ever thought that maybe he's gay?


And having an affair?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Have you ever thought that maybe he's gay?


Uh Oh. This has been brought up before, many times Sam. You may want to review the thread. Curious doesn't seem to be too happy when it has been suggested.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Uh Oh. This has been brought up before, many times Sam. You may want to review the thread. Curious doesn't seem to be too happy when it has been suggested.


:lol:

He's making a funny. 

Real cute Sam. And you too I Don't Know.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Uh Oh. This has been brought up before, many times Sam. You may want to review the thread. Curious doesn't seem to be too happy when it has been suggested.


Oh karole  I have followed and participated in this thread since the very beginning, and have echoed what FW just posted before. I am sure that TCW took the humor in my suggesting that


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

BTW I LOVE your new siggy line Sam.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> BTW I LOVE your new siggy line Sam.


It was after a particularly good romp, she was still kind of breathless, but said it in a very matter of fact way. I just smiled when she said it


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Have you ever thought that maybe he's gay?





I Don't Know said:


> And having an affair?


AND masturbating to PORN daily?!?!

:rofl:

(Sorry CW & everyone, couldn't resist.) Just a moment of fun-nee.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> AND masturbating to PORN daily?!?!
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> (Sorry CW & everyone, couldn't resist.) Just a moment of fun-nee.


He's a VERY busy man.... 

I guess it would be possible if he was masturbating to gay porn, and if his affair lover was a man!? Oh my gosh, it all makes sense now!


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He's a VERY busy man....
> 
> I guess it would be possible if he was masturbating to gay porn, and if *his affair lover was a man*!? Oh my gosh, it all makes sense now!


The doctor he's been secretly seeing for his low T and replacement therapy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> The doctor he's been secretly seeing for his low T and replacement therapy


Yep, that must be it.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No, it's the GARDENER (who CW doesn't even know was hired!) And the pool boy (even though they don't have a pool!) AND the low-T doc....

Sorry CW, just don't want to see you end up in the same boat as me 

I wish you the very best getting to the bottom of this...


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> It was after a particularly good romp, she was still kind of breathless, but said it in a very matter of fact way. I just smiled when she said it


Just rubbing that good sex life in front of all the sexless. EVIL! :rofl:


----------



## SierraRenee

*LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I'm new here. I can relate to some degree to your frustration with your hubby.

If say 90% of the time I am the one to initiate sex. I have told him I would be satisfied with every other night. He is good with that compromise. 

I just wish he would initiate more because it would make me feel wanted. I'm always text him though the day and I wish sometimes he would be the one getting things started.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> Just rubbing that good sex life in front of all the sexless. *EVIL*! :rofl:


Inspiration. I was married to a woman with diagnosed NPD for 17 years. The final four were sexless, so I have been there, and broke free.

It's out there...all you have to do is find the courage to go and get it.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm hitting that 17 year mark myself Sam. It's rough. And it's why we're all here pulling for CW not to follow us down the loooooong road.

I don't think CW's situation is 99% unfixable yet, maybe closer to 85%. Figure out if his hormones are normal levels, figure out what his actual frequency of sex level is, and figure out if compromise in frequency and quality is possible. 

DO NOT get pregnant yet.
DO keep a plan for a solo future in mind.
DO keep your chin up and let out the frustrations here.

I'm in that transition from trying to work on fixing my marriage problems, to prepping for D. It's taken some time to work through the checklist of the potential problems and see if they are solvable. I've just reached the point where I'm 99% sure nothing is fixable. 

I used to dream about my sex life improving with my wife. Now I dream about my sex life improving without her. Time to move on.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I'm hitting that 17 year mark myself Sam. It's rough. And it's why we're all here pulling for CW not to follow us down the loooooong road.
> 
> I don't think CW's situation is 99% unfixable yet, maybe closer to 85%. Figure out if his hormones are normal levels, figure out what his actual frequency of sex level is, and figure out if compromise in frequency and quality is possible.
> 
> DO NOT get pregnant yet.
> DO keep a plan for a solo future in mind.
> DO keep your chin up and let out the frustrations here.
> 
> I'm in that transition from trying to work on fixing my marriage problems, to prepping for D. It's taken some time to work through the checklist of the potential problems and see if they are solvable. I've just reached the point where I'm 99% sure nothing is fixable.
> 
> I used to dream about my sex life improving with my wife. Now I dream about my sex life improving without her. Time to move on.


Being married to a NPD, the lack of sex was pretty low on my list of worries as I was pretty much in emotional self preservation mode for much of the relationship. The last several years, I had lost any desire to fix it.

Once I got out of that relationship, turns out, I'm actually a pretty good catch...who'd of thought...


----------



## larry.gray

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> Just rubbing that good sex life in front of all the sexless. EVIL! :rofl:



I try not to do too much of that.

I owe this forum payback - I want to be helpful. It has really helped me.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Awe man! Cut the guy some slack. Sam is on cloud 9! After living in hell for so many years he is now in heaven and can't believe how good it can be.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I need to look for your story if you posted it Sam. I hope it wasn't an completely unpleasant time with her. If I had married a monster I would have kicked her to the curb a long time ago. I ended up in an otherwise great marriage and inertia kicked in till you realize 17 years have gone past.

How's the prospects for an easy going 44 yr old guy with a decent paycheck, no kids, and a high libido? :lol::lol::lol: I've been thinking of starting a thread in Considering or Going Through Divorce. Sorry for any thread jacking CW.  I just can't resist her thread because with most of her posts I can exchange "him" with "her" and "wife" for "husband" and it could be my post.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

4x4 your prospects will be JUST FINE. When you get to that point, don't worry one bit about future partners, they will be there.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> 4x4 your prospects will be JUST FINE. When you get to that point, *don't worry one bit about future partners, they will be there*.


Hot chicks that put out are a dime a dozen


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Awe man! Cut the guy some slack. Sam is on cloud 9! After living in hell for so many years he is now in heaven and can't believe how good it can be.


I truly appreciate hearing from those who are living the good life. Gives me hope.

I didn't know this until just a few minutes ago, but apparently there is a Buddhist term for this: Mudita

_Mudita meditation is used to cultivate appreciative joy at the success and good fortune of others. It is used to counteract the resentment, jealousy, or envy often experienced at another's success.

Many Buddhist teachers interpret joy more broadly as an inner spring of infinite joy that is available to everyone at all times, regardless of circumstances. The more deeply one drinks of this spring, the more secure one becomes in one's own abundant happiness, and the easier it then becomes to relish the joy of other people as well._​



Or in other words, it's nice to know someone somewhere is getting something they both enjoy. 

(now back to my day job just a little bit longer...)


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I need to look for your story if you posted it Sam. I hope it wasn't an completely unpleasant time with her. If I had married a monster I would have kicked her to the curb a long time ago. I ended up in an otherwise great marriage and inertia kicked in till you realize 17 years have gone past.
> 
> How's the prospects for an easy going 44 yr old guy with a decent paycheck, no kids, and a high libido? :lol::lol::lol: I've been thinking of starting a thread in Considering or Going Through Divorce. Sorry for any thread jacking CW.  I just can't resist her thread because with most of her posts I can exchange "him" with "her" and "wife" for "husband" and it could be my post.


My story and journey was here, but I pulled it after a while because I really just wanted to move on, and felt no compelling need to be unnecessarily reminded of it. Yes, I know it was very helpful for many people here, but in the end, my own mindset was more important to me. It has been retold in bits and pieces all over this board when certain parts were relevant to the topic at hand.

It was a difficult marriage as anyone with first hand experience in a relationship with an NPD partner can attest to. It wasn't as simple as just kicking her to the curb with three kids involved, but in the end, doing just that when I first ignored the warning signs would have saved a lot of trouble, misery and heartache.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

4x4,

In the unasked for advice category; no kids = you gotta go. Now (assuming you've done all the right things, which from your posts that I've read, you must have done).


----------



## Holland

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW unlike my mate Sam, my ex did not have mental health issues but there are many similarities between his story, yours, mine and the 1000's of others out there.

My ex was LD due to being fvcked up emotionally by passive agressive, overly submissive, non loving, non sexual parents that stayed together "for the kids". OK I get that, it took me many years to work out what the real issues were but I understand it all now in hindsight.

My part in the circus was choosing to partner with him, I think subconsciously I chose a safe mate because I have a fear of being cheated on.

Perfect storm and 20 years after we met we divorced. 3 amazing children a great life, travel, money etc but it became loveless and sexless.

All I can say is that it matters not what the underlying issues are, is your husband low T, gay, an alien none of it matters. The only thing that really matters is that if he truly loved you he would be pro active and get some help, fix this issue. He would feel empathy for you, he would be your man and do whatever it took to see you smile.

Bottom line is that these situation are more about lack of love than lack of sex.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> #2 He is so much more to me than just a sexual partner. Like you, I needed him. I had a bad childhood, and he was the only bit of sanity I could cling to. He was and still is "my safe place." He has changed me, and for the better in most ways. Minus the sexual part of our relationship.


That just reminded me of a book I am reading, The Eden Project: In Search of the Magical Other, by James Hollis. Actually, the Amazon "Look Inside" link when you click on the book cover here is much more revealing than the author's own page about the book.

I don't mean to imply you need to read it, but considering you are the "Curious" one, I thought perhaps you might find it interesting. Haven't gotten too deep into it yet but I am finding Hollis's prose beautiful and full of meaning.





TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Honestly, I'm not looking for reasons, or whys. He is how he is. That is out of my control.
> 
> I'm looking for advice on how to cope, and how to improve what hand I've been dealt. But mostly I'm just looking for a place to vent and share my frustrations so I don't feel so alone.
> 
> It beats talking to myself.  lol


Well, in that case:

1) Love yourself.
2) ahem, "Love" yourself (frequently, and without shame or guilt)
3) Decide you are going to live a happy life no matter what he does, and no matter if that eventually means you have part ways
4) Absolutely don't complicate your life with children
5) Make appointments with yourself (say, in your Google calendar, or MS Outlook, or whatever), to bluntly and coldly re-assess what you were hoping to have changed by that point, and what you had promised you were going to do about it by then
6) Understand that if you are focusing on changing his behavior, that distracts you from deciding what his behavior means for you -- what do you feel you deserve in this life, what are you willing to make tough choices to obtain?
7) Understand if you are focusing on changing his behavior, he never has to decide for him self what it is he wants to be; he will be content to just resist being changed by you.
8) Understand many people have gone before you in all sorts of situations and never adopted a process that forces them to regularly hear themselves talk, and talk about what is good and what is bad about the present and the path they are travelling. For me, the antidote seems to be seeing a very good therapist for IC. If you don't have something that works towards that end for you, you may indeed spin your wheels for decades. It's what people do.
9) Understand that people from unhappy childhoods cope in ways that ultimately defeat their chances of happiness. If you aren't Curious about those ways, and if you are not taking action to keep if from happening to you, beware.
10) The things I mentioned above that have an implicit or explicit focus on changing you, or protecting you, do not necessarily conflict with staying with him. I have been with my wife for 20+ years. Oh how I wish I had focused on me so much earlier. I could have avoided so much unhappiness and pain, and probably would have stayed with her (ETA: as I have). The difference is I would have grown stronger over time, and been happier, rather than almost shriveled up and disappeared.

These are just things that come to mind. No guarantees. And to be clear, I'm learning mostly from looking at what has NOT worked for me.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Must be enlightening to see your friend on the brink of marriage and questing if a bad sex life is going to be OK or not when entering marriage. And knowing how much pain and disappointment it has caused you. Must put you in a funny position where you don't want to say "NO, BREAK IT OFF BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE." when you are not ready to do the same to your own marriage. Hard to give advice when you are in a similar position just down stream a few years. Must feel very confusing and difficult to deal with.

Do your best with your friend, be a good listener, reflect what she is saying and give her a chance to make up her own mind.

Oh, and if you want to do the striptease to make yourself feel sexy, the do it.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Very insightful, Holland.



Holland said:


> Bottom line is that these situation are more about lack of love than lack of sex.


The sad (ETA: I initially wrote ironic...probably the wrong word, my brain is tired) thing is that being "more about a lack of love" is exactly what it feels like to many of us in these situations, at least at times. Yet, we keep seeking answers in big book of How to Make the Other Want Sex -- _Whether (S)He Wants to Want Me or Not_".


We know, and we don't know.

My guess is it hurts too much to accept that truth. At least it is that way for me. 

Speaking for myself.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Holland said:


> All I can say is that it matters not what the underlying issues are, is your husband low T, gay, an alien none of it matters. The only thing that really matters is that *if he truly loved you* he would be pro active and get some help, fix this issue. He would feel empathy for you, he would be your man and do whatever it took to see you smile.


I disagree with this. He does love her. 

Lots of people can be madly in love with someone, yet be unable to CHANGE THEMSELVES in order to please them.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Do your best with your friend, be a good listener, reflect what she is saying and give her a chance to make up her own mind.
> 
> Oh, and if you want to do the striptease to make yourself feel sexy, the do it.



:banghead: Please consider your audience when you write things like that! 

I see now you really are talking about two different conversations -- one with the friend, and one with the H.... I tried really hard to ignore the context switch... 

(just kidding, I promise )


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I disagree with this. He does love her.
> 
> Lots of people can be madly in love with someone, yet be unable to CHANGE THEMSELVES in order to please them.


I don't figure I'm wise enough to know whether he loves her or not. Not my place to say, I'm sure.

I dare say, however, she would feel more loved if he would at least do the simple things to TRY to close the gap between them (see a damn Dr.), and yet he does not. He loves whatever he gets out of that more than he cares about the outcome for her.

And ultimately, when it's all said and done, it matters not whether he loved her and loved her well. It matters that she lived her life feeling loved and content, and experienced all the joys life had to offer her. Or not.


----------



## Holland

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PieceOfSky said:


> Very insightful, Holland.
> 
> 
> 
> The sad (ETA: I initially wrote ironic...probably the wrong word, my brain is tired) thing is that being "more about a lack of love" is exactly what it feels like to many of us in these situations, at least at times. Yet, we keep seeking answers in big book of How to Make the Other Want Sex -- _Whether (S)He Wants to Want Me or Not_".
> 
> 
> We know, and we don't know.
> 
> My guess is it hurts too much to accept that truth. At least it is that way for me.
> 
> Speaking for myself.


The injured part of me clouds this whole issue with my own experience, fair enough though I think. In my situation I gave up wanting sex with him the day I realised it was about lack of love. He would tell me he loved me but his inaction told the opposite story. It hurt deeply to accept that our situation was about lack of love but it also gave me the strength to move on with my life.

I am one of the ones that went on post divorce to find utopia, a man that I am sexually compatible with, quality, adventure, passion, quantity is what we have. 

In my marriage to the ex I had totally turned of the drive for any sort of sexual experience. Now 5 years down the track my new life is very happy. I will always advocate moving on in these types of loveless, sexless marriages because life is to be lived. I hate hearing about people that are stuck where I was, wasting their lives with a partner that really does not care. No matter what a partner says it is their inaction that is the true indicator of how they really feel.

IMHO a partner should go the extra mile. OK if it is just a mismatched drive then there is compromise that can be made, LD gives more, HD asks for less but at least meet each other somewhere in the middle. That is love.
But if partners cannot compromise then ultimately there is no hope. That is selfishness.

To simplify the issue, I am a vegetarian but I cook meat dishes for my man because I love him and enjoy seeing him happy and content. 

If someone loves you they will go the extra for you. If someone is selfish they will turn a blind eye while you suffer.


----------



## Holland

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I disagree with this. He does love her.
> 
> Lots of people can be madly in love with someone, yet be unable to CHANGE THEMSELVES in order to please them.


I am happy to agree to disagree on this one FW, with all due respect to you, always.

But if a person enjoys sex when they have it or enjoys some aspects of sex then all they need to change is the quantity. If a change in quantity is too much to ask of someone then they are selfish and not in love with their spouse enough to go the extra.

Look I get it that people can be in love but still not meet the others needs but for it to go on for any length of time speaks volumes. How can someone truly profess love for another and at the same time neglect them. Sorry but this is an equation that will never add up.
If a spouse like that set the other free then that would be love.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Holland said:


> To simplify the issue, I am a vegetarian but I cook meat dishes for my man because I love him and enjoy seeing him happy and content.


LOL -- sort of!

Pardon the thread-jack TCW, but I just have to say a couple of weeks ago I got grief from my wife about how she "has to" cook two meals -- one for her and D1, and one for me and D2. D2 (11 years) and I are both vegetarians. I was vegetarian 20+ years ago when we met.

I point out I have never asked her to cook anything for me, while she points out D2 is a vegetarian because I "let her watch some show on Netflix" about being vegan (I regretted she watched it btw; heck, I regretted I watched it).

I let myself ignore what that "grief" says about her attitude towards me, dismissing it as "Of course she is stressed... because of .... (something else)...". Until a statement like Holland's hits me like a hammer.

Trying to find relevance here, let me say, my tendency to "look for an excuse" or "whitewash her behavior" very likely has roots in my childhood, if not in my wiring. And, it takes a special sort of consciously-managed effort to undo that. I've ignored that mostly up until recently, at great cost to her, my kids, and myself.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Holland said:


> I am happy to agree to disagree on this one FW, with all due respect to you, always.
> 
> But if a person enjoys sex when they have it or enjoys some aspects of sex then all they need to change is the quantity. If a change in quantity is too much to ask of someone then they are selfish and not in love with their spouse enough to go the extra.
> 
> Look I get it that people can be in love but still not meet the others needs but for it to go on for any length of time speaks volumes. How can someone truly profess love for another and at the same time neglect them. Sorry but this is an equation that will never add up.
> *If a spouse like that set the other free then that would be love*.


I'm quite sure he will set her free when that time comes. Would that convince you then, if it comes to that, that he loves her?

Did you happen to catch my story a few pages back, of a friend who is in nearly the same position as CW...her husband absolutely does love her, yet he is unable to change in this way and he feels horrible about it...she started talking about a D earlier this year and his response is that he will lovingly release her if that is what she needs as he knows he will never be able to change in this regard. 

I don't think it is ever fair to say "if he loved you he would..." fill in any blank. Sometimes lack of love has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Also we never get to decide what someone else would do "if they loved" their spouse. How we act when in love and what we are willing to do is a totally unique thing we all each get to decide for ourselves.

There are things I need my husband to do which would require massive changes on his part. He loves me, yet he likely may never be able to do those things. At our most recent discussion about those things, he did tear up and say he would release me if that's what would be best.

Sometimes people simply cannot change at their core level, even if they want to, even if they try very hard, even if they love you madly, and my husband certainly does love me madly. He actually even wants to change in the ways I'm talking about. He simply may not be able to.

If your last marriage's issues were due to lack of love, then I totally believe you. Sometimes it is due to lack of love.

But sometimes it isn't.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Do your best with your friend, be a good listener, reflect what she is saying and give her a chance to make up her own mind.
> 
> Oh, and if you want to do the striptease to make yourself feel sexy, the do it.





PieceOfSky said:


> :banghead: Please consider your audience when you write things like that!
> 
> I see now you really are talking about two different conversations -- one with the friend, and one with the H.... I tried really hard to ignore the context switch...
> 
> (just kidding, I promise )


I am sorry, I was just referring to TCW's situation with her friend that is getting married and facing a sex life that is not so good. Perhaps I did not make it clear who I was referring to.

Are you referring to the suggestion to do the striptease? Only if it makes her feel sexy. Giving it to him with no return is sort of like the BJ thing but at a smaller scale.


----------



## Holland

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

From your description FW it is clear your husband loves you, the intent behind someones words is very telling. He wishes he could change to meet your needs, he is upset about the issue.

From CWs posts it sounds like her needs are a burden to her husband. Yes he no doubt loves her very much but love is a multi faceted thing, there is unselfish and selfish love.

To hold on to someone and ignore their needs is selfish love.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Weeeeeelll, CW, what you may be describing is someone too mellow and nonchalant to make decisions or take a position. Am I sensing wrongly or he is not as emotional as you would like in general? Like passionate about anything!! His car or camera or Xbox live games...

I'm passionate about lots of things. Not necessarily emotional for everything but passionate for a lot of things. Material and immaterial. 

Start at more basic emotional constructs and work your way up!


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I am sorry, I was just referring to TCW's situation with her friend that is getting married and facing a sex life that is not so good. Perhaps I did not make it clear who I was referring to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you referring to the suggestion to do the striptease? Only if it makes her feel sexy. Giving it to him with no return is sort of like the BJ thing but at a smaller scale.




Oh, I'm sorry... I was just trying to be silly! I fully understood. The close proximity of those two paragraphs, taken out of context and through the right set of under-sexed eyes could mean something completely different and a bit R-rated. A bit of (failed) sophomoric humor...



Not my best work.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Holland said:


> From your description FW it is clear your husband loves you, the intent behind someones words is very telling. He wishes he could change to meet your needs, he is upset about the issue.
> 
> From CWs posts it sounds like her needs are a burden to her husband. Yes he no doubt loves her very much but love is a multi faceted thing, there is unselfish and selfish love.
> 
> To hold on to someone and ignore their needs is selfish love.


I would just call it immature and ignorant. Young married people think they will not have to change, compromise, or work on themselves. This is usually because they don't know what a huge cost divorce will be, nor do they even think it could ever happen to them. They don't know that by insisting on "being left alone so they can be themselves" is actually the same as saying "I'll end up divorced using this mindset".

His behavior, except on this issue, does not sound like a man who has no love for Curious. And on this issue, his behavior sounds like a typical LD spouse who has no clue that they could end up divorced over this.

If every spouse truly understood that divorce is looming over EVERYONE's head (as in statistically) and if they truly understood the EMOTIONAL costs of divorce...then every spouse would also understand how important it is to become the person their spouse needs them to be. Sadly, this isn't what young people (or many people, for that matter) think is important. They think "being yourself" is important. This is of course again, simply ignorance. They would do better if they knew better.

Curious's husband simply doesn't know better, likes himself as he is, and he is so LD that he has no drive to even discuss the matter.

Yes they may end up divorced because of this ignorance.

But he doesn't know that.

Part of the reason he doesn't is because CW is nowhere near leaving. Even SHE doesn't realize that she should be pushing so much harder on this issue, because divorce is a high probability if she doesn't. She is still young and believes people can and will change to please us. She believes his love for her will make him change for her.

I wish it worked that way. It just doesn't, though.

I don't think it is fair for any of us to say he doesn't love her based on any of this, though.

People feel and express love in so many different ways.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,
This is where we disagree. 

My definition of LD excludes people who dislike sex. 

A typical LD is likely to say: I do like it, once we get going, it's the initiation sequence that I struggle with. 

His refusal to get his ED medically checked out makes it very likely that HE believes his ED is based on a distaste of sex. 

Pharmaceutical/hormonal coock hardening solutions won't change his distaste of sex. They will simply worsen the problem for him, because CW will now expect more sex and will LIKE it more. 

I DO agree that there is a sexual learning curve. And also believe that people have hard wired limits to what they can learn. 

I'm guessing (sadly) he's already top of his learning curve. 





Faithful Wife said:


> I would just call it immature and ignorant. Young married people think they will not have to change, compromise, or work on themselves. This is usually because they don't know what a huge cost divorce will be, nor do they even think it could ever happen to them. They don't know that by insisting on "being left alone so they can be themselves" is actually the same as saying "I'll end up divorced using this mindset".
> 
> His behavior, except on this issue, does not sound like a man who has no love for Curious. And on this issue, his behavior sounds like a typical LD spouse who has no clue that they could end up divorced over this.
> 
> If every spouse truly understood that divorce is looming over EVERYONE's head (as in statistically) and if they truly understood the EMOTIONAL costs of divorce...then every spouse would also understand how important it is to become the person their spouse needs them to be. Sadly, this isn't what young people (or many people, for that matter) think is important. They think "being yourself" is important. This is of course again, simply ignorance. They would do better if they knew better.
> 
> Curious's husband simply doesn't know better, likes himself as he is, and he is so LD that he has no drive to even discuss the matter.
> 
> Yes they may end up divorced because of this ignorance.
> 
> But he doesn't know that.
> 
> Part of the reason he doesn't is because CW is nowhere near leaving. Even SHE doesn't realize that she should be pushing so much harder on this issue, because divorce is a high probability if she doesn't. She is still young and believes people can and will change to please us. She believes his love for her will make him change for her.
> 
> I wish it worked that way. It just doesn't, though.
> 
> I don't think it is fair for any of us to say he doesn't love her based on any of this, though.
> 
> People feel and express love in so many different ways.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Many naturally LD people dislike sex. Some like it a little, some like it a lot, some don't really care for it.

Why does that part matter? What difference does it make? It isn't going to change, whether he likes sex or not.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

An LD person who likes sex, CAN work with their spouse to find a successful initiation sequence. 

An LD person who dislikes sex, will engage in endless mischief (often very hurtful mischief) to avoid any sort of sexual routine. 

This is why I believe CW's odds of success are terribly low. 


QUOTE=Faithful Wife;10314674]Many naturally LD people dislike sex. Some like it a little, some like it a lot, some don't really care for it.

Why does that part matter? What difference does it make? It isn't going to change, whether he likes sex or not.[/QUOTE]


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My favorite hobby is to capture an entire situation in a single phrase. 

I would summarize this 100 plus page thread thus:

*C2 hates sex more than he loves CW. 
*






Faithful Wife said:


> Many naturally LD people dislike sex. Some like it a little, some like it a lot, some don't really care for it.
> 
> Why does that part matter? What difference does it make? It isn't going to change, whether he likes sex or not.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> My favorite hobby is to capture an entire situation in a single phrase.
> 
> I would summarize this 100 plus page thread thus:
> 
> *C2 hates sex more than he loves CW.
> *


Man, I so hope you are wrong about that MEM......that is just so sad.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Plenty of LD people who like sex STILL will not compromise to meet their HD spouse's needs.

LD is LD. Sometimes the LD can work through it, sometimes they won't even try. Whether they like sex or not doesn't really mean anything. He either will work through it or he won't...and he will not even try until he understands that he's going to end up divorced if he doesn't try.

One of my friends on the other forum is out of a long term sexless marriage. His LD ex-wife liked sex just fine when she got going, was multi-orgasmic, and actually pretty kinky. They went to ST for years, tried working on the issue for years...they are still divorced anyway because she was never able to rise up to the level he needed her to for his own needs to be met fully. She was definitely trying, but she still never once really wanted to actually change herself, and she never wanted the sex for herself, EVEN THOUGH she enjoyed it immensely when they got going.

He's now in a lovely new relationship with the woman of his dreams. His ex-wife is happy to be single and freed from the sexual pressure.

Again, I don't see that talking about his dislike of sex really matters. All that matters is, will he work on it or not?

And until CW makes it clear she has one foot out the door, then he doesn't really have all the info he needs to really make deep inner changes and then do the inner work that would be necessary to create lasting change.


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Mem, how can you dismiss the fact that the majority of men won't go to the doctor for help with ED? That he is young only makes it more difficult.

Men judge themselves on their penis far too much. When it isn't cooperating they aren't keen on telling people about it.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CC,
Just looking at the gestalt here. 

Just curious. What's your prognosis? 




[/B]


clipclop2 said:


> Mem, how can you dismiss the fact that the majority of men won't go to the doctor for help with ED? That he is young only makes it more difficult.
> 
> Men judge themselves on their penis far too much. When it isn't cooperating they aren't keen on telling people about it.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wow. People are getting that some people actually HATE sex. So we have Hate, Dislike, indifferent, like and love. Similar categories exist for physical affection and just being nice to someone.

Some don't have it in em, and if they do it's only to get what they want. People go through phases in life where they may change, even 180 degrees.

It's not steady state.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's not steady state - agree completely.

That said, how often you think someone goes from disliking sex with their partner to liking it?

Because I believe that only happens when a spouse has terrible technique. 

And in this case - I don't believe that for a second. 





treyvion said:


> Wow. People are getting that some people actually HATE sex. So we have Hate, Dislike, indifferent, like and love. Similar categories exist for physical affection and just being nice to someone.
> 
> Some don't have it in em, and if they do it's only to get what they want. People go through phases in life where they may change, even 180 degrees.
> 
> It's not steady state.


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If indeed she has done more than take his word that he isn't watching porn, whacking off or otherwise acting outside the marriage, I don't know. Gay doesn't make sense since he would still have a drive. Asexual is my vote.


----------



## treyvion

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> It's not steady state - agree completely.
> 
> That said, how often you think someone goes from disliking sex with their partner to liking it?


I don't think this happens very often at all. Someone would have to totally overhaul their image for someone to change their perception in such a manner. Not an easy task!




MEM11363 said:


> Because I believe that only happens when a spouse has terrible technique.


I agree that's one reason. I wouldn't say it's the "only", there are some "not good" reasons why someone will dislike sex with someone. What about:

1. tired of the same person
2. don't want to make them feel good about themselves
3. angry with them
4. a power struggle, so #2 and #3 are part of the power
5. hanging out with single friends and married sex is boring



MEM11363 said:


> And in this case - I don't believe that for a second.


Not sure. There are some "not good" reasons for things like I said before. Sometimes you could've done absolutely nothing because that relation partner had you in the spot that was convenient for them.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As for him disliking sex. I don't think it would be just with me. It's not like I'm doing something wrong, or we are fighting all the time and he is angry with me. He just doesn't like sex all that much. There are plenty of people who are LD and would be, no matter who their partner is.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We had an interesting evening last night. He flirted and initiated that we would have sex when he got home from work, so I was to be ready and waiting.

So I showered, got all dressed up in my lingerie, and about 5 minutes before he gets home, my family calls and wants to stop by. I tried to get rid of them, but they said they were coming anyway. So I just pulled clothes over my get up, and just tried to get them to leave asap. Husband got home and was disappointed that I was fully clothed, until he peeked under and saw lace. 

It was kind of fun being naughty and knowing what I was hiding while I ushered my family away. As soon as they left husband was on me, ripping clothes off, and we had some fantastic sex. :smthumbup:

Just in time too, because his family showed up unannounced just a few minutes after we were done....

Oh don't you just love family.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> Weeeeeelll, CW, what you may be describing is someone too mellow and nonchalant to make decisions or take a position. Am I sensing wrongly or he is not as emotional as you would like in general? Like passionate about anything!! His car or camera or Xbox live games...
> 
> I'm passionate about lots of things. Not necessarily emotional for everything but passionate for a lot of things. Material and immaterial.
> 
> Start at more basic emotional constructs and work your way up!


You hit that spot on. He is not a very motivated person, and he is not passionate about anything, except maybe baseball. 

I am a very passionate and motivated person. I'm a "busy bee" and need to be working and doing something. Need to be learning. 

He is quite content sitting on the porch and listening to the birds for hours. Yuck.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> FW,
> This is where we disagree.
> 
> My definition of LD excludes people who dislike sex.
> 
> A typical LD is likely to say: I do like it, once we get going, it's the initiation sequence that I struggle with.
> 
> His refusal to get his ED medically checked out makes it very likely that HE believes his ED is based on a distaste of sex.
> 
> Pharmaceutical/hormonal coock hardening solutions won't change his distaste of sex. They will simply worsen the problem for him, because CW will now expect more sex and will LIKE it more.
> 
> I DO agree that there is a sexual learning curve. And also believe that people have hard wired limits to what they can learn.
> 
> I'm guessing (sadly) he's already top of his learning curve.



He does like sex after we get going. He struggles with getting warmed up, and initiating. But he says he always has a good time once we have started. He has very responsive desire.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Do you know why golf is the most frustrating game? Because you can play an entire round and suck. But on the 16 hole you hit a 40 yard pitch shot that ends up either in the hole or inches from it. Man do you get excited! Cant wait to get back on the course! Never mind that the 100 shots you took other than that ONE sucked. Never mind that you decided on the 15th hole to maybe try something else to do with your 4 hours on a Sat/Sun. Something that if you tried it would be way more fulfilling for the entire 4 hours than the 15 seconds you just enjoyed this day. That my dear lady is what is happening to you. This thread has lasted more than a year, a sucky year, but just one moment has you pumped to give it a try again. Keep trying if you want, I admire your tenacity. But don't expect me or a lot of others to feel sorry for you during those other 100 shots.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't want people to feel sorry for me. As I said, I just like to rant and share my trails and successes so I don't feel so alone. Call it self therapy. 

Plus I like keeping the documentation so I can look back at it later.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm due to go to the doctor next week. I'm really considering mentioning our sexual problems. I think I will give my husband a heads up, that I intend to share with her.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't want people to feel sorry for me. As I said, I just like to rant and share my trails and successes so I don't feel so alone. Call it self therapy.
> 
> Plus I like keeping the documentation so I can look back at it later.


You may not have intended it, but it turned into group therapy. Your posts and the contributions of everyone here helped me tremendously. I can't thank CW and the rest of you enough. :smthumbup:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> You may not have intended it, but it turned into group therapy. Your posts and the contributions of everyone here helped me tremendously. I can't thank CW and the rest of you enough. :smthumbup:


I'm glad someone got something, out of all my ranting. 

TAM has been a real life saver to me. Before I was a mess, I felt so alone, and cried myself to sleep a lot.

Now I feel better educated, and more... empowered I guess.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm due to go to the doctor next week. I'm really considering mentioning our sexual problems. I think I will give my husband a heads up, that I intend to share with her.


I think that is a great idea. It lets him know you are concerned that this might be a medical issue which I think might be less accusatory to him. And you can follow that conversation up with your expectation that his regular erection interruption be addressed....by HIM!

To make this rather gender neutral, as much as that is possible: if a woman was able to become aroused but not orgasm yet *wanted* to, her first step would be to talk to her doctor and through a series of questions the doctor could look for potential hormonal problems, like thyroid issues. From there, if everything checked out, she would be referred to a different specialist.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We had an interesting evening last night. He flirted and initiated that we would have sex when he got home from work, so I was to be ready and waiting.
> 
> So I showered, got all dressed up in my lingerie, and about 5 minutes before he gets home, my family calls and wants to stop by. I tried to get rid of them, but they said they were coming anyway. So I just pulled clothes over my get up, and just tried to get them to leave asap. Husband got home and was disappointed that I was fully clothed, until he peeked under and saw lace.
> 
> It was kind of fun being naughty and knowing what I was hiding while I ushered my family away. As soon as they left husband was on me, ripping clothes off, and we had some fantastic sex. :smthumbup:
> 
> Just in time too, because his family showed up unannounced just a few minutes after we were done....
> 
> Oh don't you just love family.


Oh fantastic. That story sounds so cool. Like you guys have your own private sexy life and your families don't even know anything about it. But you two can wink at each other and arouse each other and have your secret fun together.

You made an excellent decision to leave the lingerie on.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,



I see a common thread between him asking for a striptease and him looking forward to you being ready and waiting.



In both, he's sort of the one calling the shots, asserting his intent to have you.



If it works for you, perhaps you can fan that flame in him somehow.



Sounds contradictory -- tell him to take charge. But, maybe you can draw him into a different mindset than his normal one.



Just a thought.


----------



## believeinyou

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

**copied and pasted from my own thread**

We are young. I'm 23 and he is about to turn 23. We have been married over a year. We were each other's first sexual partners. I was his first girlfriend. While I had dated and even experimented in the past, I suffered from vaginismus which was not "cured" (after undergoing surgery and physical therapy) until my relationship with him. I really couldn't wait to be married to him. We were best friends and I trusted him. 

He lacks in passion. For a while we had a "sexless" marriage even though we were eager before. We are starting to get more intimate, but I am left unsatisfied while he is not. I enjoy a man who can take control, but he is not like that. I've tried to tell him but the end result is the same. 

Even though I am unsatisfied I still continue to go to him. I'm sure he thinks it's too much now, but I guess I won't stop until I am satisfied.

I had waited until marriage partially out of incident and I wish I hadn't. I wish that I could have explored more, which is weird because I was so sure of marrying him. I use to have this confidence about myself that I feel like I've lost since my marriage. This is the kind of confidence I need in my career but I just feel awkward.

We took the 5 love language quiz and I've noticed that he's perfectly satisfied in our marriage as a whole, while I am not. I've expressed this but to no avail. He's either busy or too tired or playing his computer games (which has always been an issue). I'm trying to balance my needs for him so he can still enjoy his life, but it is hard.

We've gotten so bad that I finally said I didn't know if I could continue like this because I wasn't being fulfilled physically, emotionally, and even felt a slight resentment because I had to put my career on hold for a while until we moved. He didn't like the sound of it and we have been okay since then, but still... 

He doesn't initiate sex unless he's half asleep which then he's a different person and barely teases before falling asleep right on top of me. That part is actually quite funny, but still terrible at the same.

We are too young for this.

I enjoy being pursued. I remember it was a game for me (like most women) before being married. And yes. I admit that even other men pursuing me was enjoyable. The outcome wasn't anything due to my commitment. But marriage ruined that and I guess I'm not getting an stimulation. I haven't thought about it until now.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



PieceOfSky said:


> TCW,
> 
> 
> I see a common thread between him asking for a striptease and him looking forward to you being ready and waiting.
> 
> 
> In both, he's sort of the one calling the shots, asserting his intent to have you.
> 
> 
> If it works for you, perhaps you can fan that flame in him somehow.
> 
> Sounds contradictory -- tell him to take charge. But, maybe you can draw him into a different mindset than his normal one.
> 
> Just a thought.


I'd LOVE for him take control, be dominate. :smthumbup:

But he just isn't. I'll have to ponder some ideas on what I could do to encourage that more.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Welcome believeinyou. Your story sounds really similar to mine. 

That is my husband. He says he is completely satisfied and happy with our marriage and our sex life. But I am not.


----------



## believeinyou

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My father is a pastor. Which has definitely had its effect on me, but I've always had a good idea on what kind of woman I wanted to be. 

I want to break out of my shell as I have always known that I was an attractive woman. Since being married I feel like I'm turning into an awkward teenager again.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The two of you (BiY and CW) can commiserate all day long... both your stories make me very sad .

Life is WAY too short to make this many excuses for your husbands...

179 pages and no further along...


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> The two of you (BiY and CW) can commiserate all day long... both your stories make me very sad .
> 
> Life is WAY too short to make this many excuses for your husbands...


:iagree:

Love is a MFer though. I feel for them.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey. I've made some progress in 179 pages. I listed individual things that have improved a few pages back I think.

Not much progress, but progress non the less.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You're not ready to throw in the towel...until you are. This applies to all of us. No amount of advice (or pressure) from anyone else will make you ready any faster.

But typically, and this was true for me also, once you ARE ready, you wonder why you waited so long.


----------



## believeinyou

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Vows and commitment hold such a strong bond with me. To me, a promise is a promise. I'm sure some women can relate.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



believeinyou said:


> Vows and commitment hold such a strong bond with me. To me, a promise is a promise. I'm sure some women can relate.


Same here. I'm a devout Catholic, so was my husband, took my vows very seriously.

After nearly all my hair fell out and I was about ready to be committed to the nut house by my siblings, I realized that vows are meaningless if one person broke them 20 years ago.

Even my parish priest told me, "This is NOT a marriage. By any stretch."


----------



## lovelyblue

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious 

You say that you hubby likes to workout?

Why not suggest he takes supplements to enhance his workout he can try powders protein shakes and WO pills?

Maybe this will give his T a boost.

Or you can suggest just a normal routine dr visit for a normal check up with no pressure.


----------



## lovelyblue

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Incase he shy or timid about it. 

You can tell him a lot of guys/bodybuilders take WO take shakes supplements and pills.


----------



## Abc123wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We had an interesting evening last night. He flirted and initiated that we would have sex when he got home from work, so I was to be ready and waiting.
> 
> So I showered, got all dressed up in my lingerie, and about 5 minutes before he gets home, my family calls and wants to stop by. I tried to get rid of them, but they said they were coming anyway. So I just pulled clothes over my get up, and just tried to get them to leave asap. Husband got home and was disappointed that I was fully clothed, until he peeked under and saw lace.
> 
> It was kind of fun being naughty and knowing what I was hiding while I ushered my family away. As soon as they left husband was on me, ripping clothes off, and we had some fantastic sex. :smthumbup:
> 
> Just in time too, because his family showed up unannounced just a few minutes after we were done....
> 
> Oh don't you just love family.


Reading stories like this almost makes me happy that we have lived 600 and 800 mikes away from our families for most of our marriage!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:lol: When I was growing up we sat around and discussed the optimal distance between us and our parents. Just far enough so they can't drop in easily, and not so far you can't see them whenever the mood strikes. Put a radius on where we could live in the future and where we would have to work.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

ARG!!! Family is at it again.

Last night father-in-law showed up again. This time he brought husband's younger sister with him. They invited themselves right in, while we were in the middle of eating dinner. They sat down on the couch, and made themselves right at home. 

We were watching our favorite show which is only on once a week, and niece insisted on watching a cartoon. They stayed for over 2 hours while father-in-law worked on car (it's having problems), and I had to entertain her.

It makes me crazy that they can't call or ask beforehand. We were planning on having sex. But no, that, along with all our other evening plans got ruined. Husband gets mad if I complain, because his dad was working on our cars, and trying to be helpful. Although I know it makes him mad too. He won't say anything because it's free help. 

He has been here over 5 times in the last couple days unannounced, including this morning already. 2 days ago I was eating breakfast without a shirt on in the kitchen that has an entire wall full of windows. I glanced outside and there he was. I had to dash to the bedroom to get dressed, and hope he didn't see me. 

It it driving me nuts that I have to worry about keeping clothes on at all times because we never know if he will show up. Also how can we ever have sex without him showing up in the middle? It has happened several times before.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I assume you live really close to your in-laws. That would drive me crazy too.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I assume you live really close to your in-laws. That would drive me crazy too.


We live about 3 minutes from my parents, and about 10 minutes from his parents the other direction. But his father works right next door to my parents, so our house is on the way. So he OFTEN stops by on his way to work, or on his way home, or over lunch break...

It's nice we are so close for certain things, but not good for unexpected visits.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My wife and I have talked about this and promised each other we're never going to show up unannounced at our kids houses. You never know what you're going to interrupt...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> My wife and I have talked about this and promised each other we're never going to show up unannounced at our kids houses. You never know what you're going to interrupt...


I agree!

A quick text to say, "hey mind if I stop by for a bit?" would go a long way. But you also need to respect them if they say, "well now is not a good time." My parents will go, "why? We won't be long, etc."

There is only so many ways to tell them you are busy right now without coming out and screaming, "WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF HAVING SEX RIGHT NOW, PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE!"


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> There is only so many ways to tell them you are busy right now without coming out and screaming, "WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF HAVING SEX RIGHT NOW, PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE!"


Perhaps if you responded that way just once (even if you weren't), they would rethink their drop-in visits.

ETA: My step-son called one day this summer and asked if they could come over. I told them not that day. When he asked why, I simply said we'd be naked and I didn't think he wanted to see that. He rescheduled.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My mother would be a person who wouldn't care. She would just say, "put your clothes back on, we are coming over."

*face palm*

Husband's parents... I'm not even sure if they know what sex is.


----------



## Convection

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My mother would be a person who wouldn't care. She would just say, "put your clothes back on, we are coming over.".


Well, that is not about sex but a completely different boundary issue. Mom needs to accept that her girl is grown up and she doesn't get to intrude on her schedule at Mom's convenience.

In your shoes? I would just lock the door and ignore them. I have done just that when I told someone outright not to come over. You should too. They'll deal.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My mother would be a person who wouldn't care. She would just say, "put your clothes back on, we are coming over."
> 
> *face palm*
> 
> *Husband's parents... I'm not even sure if they know what sex is.*


The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Convection said:


> Well, that is not about sex but a completely different boundary issue. Mom needs to accept that her girl is grown up and she doesn't get to intrude on her schedule at Mom's convenience.
> 
> In your shoes? I would just lock the door and ignore them. I have done just that when I told someone outright not to come over. You should too. They'll deal.


We have just locked and not answered the door before, on several occasions. We just did that to father in law a week or so ago. 

Then they just blow up our phone over and over, and we have to listen to them knocking and yelling through the door. Which kind of kills the mood anyway.

Nothing seems to phase them. They still keep coming. Moving father away would be the optimal thing to do.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?


Nope. It sure doesn't.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Put a "Do Not Disturb" sign on the front door. Would be fun for a laugh anyway.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> Put a "Do Not Disturb" sign on the front door. Would be fun for a laugh anyway.


Oooo. I can make one of those homemade bedazzled door hangers like we used to have to do in school.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Mirror solar film on windows, 70's or 80's adult movie music on the outdoor speakers... 

Now you know why Europeans invented the garconniere 

(French and Italians mostly)


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, one thing I have asked you to work on is being more assertive.

Getting the in-laws to call or text before dropping by is one way you can practice being assertive.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hum, working on the car. My guess is that he planned it ahead of time. That is, he did not just stop by and think "now what do I do, ... Ah ha, I will work on the car." No he though about it ahead of time (even if it was only 1/2 an hour).

A short conversation to let him know that when he plans to drop by, he should text first just to be sure you guys are not busy. It will make more pleasant visits in the future too.

Talk to H, and have both of you talk too him at the same time. That way he understands that is what you both want. Else it will look like you are pushing him away alone.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I say it doesn't matter if only she wants it, she should assert her desire. Her husband will be fine.

When I married my H, he moved into my house. My mother, (now adult) kids and friends used to drop by on me unannounced, for my whole adult life prior to meeting him. They were used to this, and I actually liked it. My H though, it really bothers him...he cannot get used to it and he asked me straight up when he moved in to ask them all not to drop by unannounced. Since it was like 6 people dropping by unannounced, sometimes it would happen every day!

Even though I liked it, I had to defer to his wishes on this one, because it really was invasive. Just because I enjoyed the invasion didn't mean it wasn't invasive.

I had to talk to them one by one and explain that "hey, sorry, it just can't be that way anymore...yeah I know, he seems weird about this, but you just don't understand how many people I used to let come over unannounced...any time you need me though just call and if it isn't convenient to come over I'll go meet you somewhere".

They all understood. It was fine.

I also learned how to have better boundaries. I love all these people and love spontaneously spending time with them...but I also used to have very weak boundaries and can only now see the benefit of strengthening those boundaries. 

One of the benefits is being able to walk around naked or have sex in the living room and not be interrupted!


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Aw stop complaining people. In the village I grew up there seemed to be a food radar that told relatives what we were cooking so they'd drop in only when we were cooking good stuff.

Likewise sexdar ensured teenagers were always interrupted by parents or other (cough) concerned relatives... Who needs BC when uncle such and such has sexdar?

CW, small towns afford little privacy. Get your / his parents used to the idea of you being unavailable..


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We have told the relatives to call before coming over in the past. They just have seem to have forgotten.

I don't mind reminding my own family, once again. Honestly my family isn't too bad. They usually call before coming, and I have no problems telling them to leave.

It's father-in-law who always invites himself over all times of the day, or night without asking, but husband gets pretty upset if I say anything about his family. I get the whole, "you should appreciate them coming over to help, blah blah blah." 

We've discussed this more times than I can count. I can remember this happening on our first valentines day, and me being upset. It's written in this journal somewhere.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But you are still just making excuses to not assert yourself.

So what if your husband gets upset?

That's the point of learning to be assertive. Not everyone will like what you do and say, and you need to be ok with that and DO IT ANYWAY.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> But you are still just making excuses to not assert yourself.
> 
> So what if your husband gets upset?
> 
> That's the point of learning to be assertive. Not everyone will like what you do and say, and you need to be ok with that and DO IT ANYWAY.


I agree, I'm not being assertive enough and I don't want to. 

I just feel like it should be his responsibility to keep his family in line. But I guess I will just have to do it myself. As I do with everything else in life. My motto is practically, "do it yourself, because he isn't going to." And that applies to everything and anything. Sex, chores, finances. It gets tiring.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I get that, but you KNOW that's who you married. So if you want something, get it for yourself.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I get that, but you KNOW that's who you married. So if you want something, get it for yourself.


I know it.

CuriousWife is just having a bad day, week... month. 

:banghead:


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hmmm

I missed that. 

A father in law inviting himself over on v day. That is just off. 

But - CW. Your H is quietly desperate to keep you at bay in ummm a sexual sense. 

And he fights dirty. So he has either explicitly encouraged this behavior or he is subtly giving his dad cues that he is more than welcome. 

This is just a very small taste of how H will hide behind children.








TheCuriousWife said:


> We have told the relatives to call before coming over in the past. They just have seem to have forgotten.
> 
> I don't mind reminding my own family, once again. Honestly my family isn't too bad. They usually call before coming, and I have no problems telling them to leave.
> 
> It's father-in-law who always invites himself over all times of the day, or night without asking, but husband gets pretty upset if I say anything about his family. I get the whole, "you should appreciate them coming over to help, blah blah blah."
> 
> We've discussed this more times than I can count. I can remember this happening on our first valentines day, and me being upset. It's written in this journal somewhere.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He doesn't encourage his father to come over, but he also won't step up and tell him to get out. I would say in general he respects his family more than me. He will ask their advice on things, instead of just deciding with me. 

We go to his parent's for most of the day, every Sunday to visit. We eat lunch with my parents for less than an hour every week (not at their house). But I've only got him to come visit my parents only a few times since we've been married. 

His parents get first priority on Holidays. We eat Thanksgiving with his family. We go to his parents on Christmas Eve and Christmas. We will stop by my parents for just a few minutes to open presents and say hello, then it's right back to his. Granted I don't have a superb family, but still. It is very one sided. 

He is very much a mamas boy. But I've been slowly cutting the apron strings. Snip snip.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Last night there was no surprise visits from father-in-law. 

Husband was really wonderful to me, and I felt very loved. Thank goodness, I needed some happiness after all the stress that has been brewing.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I went to the doctor yesterday. After I was done with my check up, she asked if I had any questions.

I told her my concerns. I didn't blame shift, or say anything negative, or embarrassing about him. I stuck to the clinical facts. I told her that I was concerned that he isn't very interested in sex, and that when we have it he has problems staying hard. 

She instantly starting asking me other questions, about him falling asleep early, his lack of facial hair. Within minutes she said he 100% sounds like he has low T and that he needs to come in and get tested ASAP, because it could be affecting other things in his life. 

I was so relieved to hear it from someone else that I'm not just crazy or imagining things. And it felt great to be able to tell someone. She gave me some tips on how to get him to come, and she fully supported me. She said if he refuses to come in, she can talk with him and tell him how important it is to rule out medical problems.

They do offer treatment there, and if they can't improve things they can refer him to a specialist. 

I came home feeling confident. I told him that I discussed our issues with her. He wasn't mad, but he is in full defensive & denying mode. He keep saying nothing is wrong with him so he doesn't need to get tested, and that if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But he WILL be going to the doctor. No more paddy caking around for me. I guess we will find out how assertive I am, because I'm not letting this go. I told him I don't care if he thinks nothing is wrong. I want him to go for me. It won't kill him to just go, even if nothing turns out to be wrong.

He is running out of ways to push it off. He is now saying,"we'll see" or "maybe." I told him he can't say he loves me if he doesn't even care enough to go get checked out because I'm concerned. He needs to show some action.

I told him he has the weekend to think about which day he wants me to set the appointment for, or else I'm just going to pick the day myself. 

No more procrastinating. That man is going to the doctor, I don't care how much he complains.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

WAY TO GO CURIOUS!!!!! SO PROUD OF YOU!!!! 

I hope your husband will follow up and go to the doctor.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:smthumbup:

The confidence and control is jumping out of your post. LOVE IT!


----------



## CardReader

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm so happy you talked to the doctor!


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've never understood some men's reluctance to get tested for low T. If you offered me a shot or a gel or whatever that would make me feel better, function better, think clearer and (gasp) connect my mustache to my beard---I'd be on it like flies on roadkill.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> I've never understood some men's reluctance to get tested for low T. If you offered me a shot or a gel or whatever that would make me feel better, function better, think clearer and (gasp) connect my mustache to my beard---I'd be on it like flies on roadkill.


:iagree:

I know right? Who wouldn't want to feel better?

Of course he still holds out that he feels fine, and I'm sure he does in his own mind. But it's not just affecting him, it's affecting me. So he needs to get over it, and go get tested for petes sake. I'm not asking him to give up a lung. It's just a simple blood test.

He's being a baby, and I'm tired of it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The time for pity and excuses it over. I want action! 

*cue the dramatic music*


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Ride of the Valkyries ??

Finding a good doc to talk such things is critical. I had some grave concerns when I started taking Propecia  a few years ago. My doc is a few years older than me and also takes Propecia so he had a personal interest to make sure the side effects are understood etc.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good to hear Curious.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is good Curious, but still, no one can force another person to go on hormone therapy. If he refuses therapy, then what will you do? Because he really has every right to refuse it, and I would refuse hormone therapy as well. We do not know enough about the side effects of it. Have you read about the different T therapies yourself? Either he has to put it on topically, which is then harmful to YOU and others (he can't be in physical contact with children), or he has to get weekly shots. I would never agree to either of those, personally.

I think sex therapy together is the only thing that might cause a change. He has to decide to meet your needs on his own. Good counseling might help him decide this a bit sooner...because it would be made clear in therapy that divorce is the ultimate outcome of mismatched marriages.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is good Curious, but still, no one can force another person to go on hormone therapy. If he refuses therapy, then what will you do? Because he really has every right to refuse it, and I would refuse hormone therapy as well. We do not know enough about the side effects of it. Have you read about the different T therapies yourself? Either he has to put it on topically, which is then harmful to YOU and others (he can't be in physical contact with children), or he has to get weekly shots. I would never agree to either of those, personally.
> 
> I think sex therapy together is the only thing that might cause a change. He has to decide to meet your needs on his own. Good counseling might help him decide this a bit sooner...because it would be made clear in therapy that divorce is the ultimate outcome of mismatched marriages.


Of course I couldn't make him. And I've read about the side effects. I'm not too keen on the gel idea, just for safety, and I'm not sure that he would get the shots. But they also have a patch now, which seems to be a lot easier and safer.

The doctor said we would discuss the options when and if we got that far.

Right now I'm just focused on seeing if low T is even an issue. If he does happen to have low T, It doesn't hurt to try something at least once. It might be all that he needs.

I also realize that he may NOT have low T. But I think it does need to be ruled out, at least for my peace of mind, and always wondering "what if."


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Right now I'm just focused on seeing if low T is even an issue. If he does happen to have low T, *It doesn't hurt to try something at least once. It might be all that he needs.*


That's not how it works (just one treatment).

I do agree he should get checked out, though.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> That's not how it works (just one treatment).
> 
> I do agree he should get checked out, though.


I didn't mean one treatment. I meant, he could try it for a while, (however long doctor suggests) and if it wasn't working then he could stop, and I wouldn't make him try again.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

Do NOT get tangled up in a discussion with him about getting T treatment. 

One step at a time. For now, laser focus solely on having his T levels TESTED. That's all you're asking for. A simple blood draw. 

As for anything else, there is no basis to even discuss it until you know more......

Practice a tone of utter disbelief: 

Are you really resisting getting a blood test for me? 






TheCuriousWife said:


> I didn't mean one treatment. I meant, he could try it for a while, (however long doctor suggests) and if it wasn't working then he could stop, and I wouldn't make him try again.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> Do NOT get tangled up in a discussion with him about getting T treatment.
> 
> One step at a time. For now, laser focus solely on having his T levels TESTED. That's all you're asking for. A simple blood draw.
> 
> As for anything else, there is no basis to even discuss it until you know more......
> 
> Practice a tone of utter disbelief:
> 
> Are you really resisting getting a blood test for me?


:iagree:

Even if he decides not to get treatment, just having a diagnosis will at least let you know where he's coming from. And if it comes out all clear, you can scratch it off the list of suspects and work from there.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Awesome that you talked to the doctor. NOW we're getting somewhere!!!

You need to make it clear to your husband that _his medical issues directly affect you_, as I suggested before. Therefore if he refuses to go have this investigated despite your requests, he is, in fact, _neglecting you_, and he is _choosing_ to neglect his responsibility to you as your husband. If that doesn't make him see the light and motivate him to_ just go_, it will tell you a lot about where you rank in his world (and I suppose you could tell him that as well).

Especially now that the doctor herself has stated that there is potentially a medical cause for concern here, for him to just disregard your request that he get checked out would be purely negligent. Not to mention, low T problems can affect fertility, and since he wants babies, you might want to emphasize that to him to motivate him to get moving on this. He cant just want until he decides he wants to start a family to decide to deal with it and expect instant resolution to the problem - sometimes people don't respond as expected to treatment which can cause dramatically extended timelines in getting the problem resolved. Time to start now!





TheCuriousWife said:


> I went to the doctor yesterday. After I was done with my check up, she asked if I had any questions. I told her my concerns.... Within minutes she said he 100% sounds like he has low T and that he needs to come in and get tested ASAP, because it could be affecting other things in his life... No more procrastinating. That man is going to the doctor, I don't care how much he complains.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is good Curious, but still, no one can force another person to go on hormone therapy. If he refuses therapy, then what will you do? Because he really has every right to refuse it, and I would refuse hormone therapy as well. We do not know enough about the side effects of it. Have you read about the different T therapies yourself? Either he has to put it on topically, which is then harmful to YOU and others (he can't be in physical contact with children), or he has to get weekly shots. I would never agree to either of those, personally.
> 
> I think sex therapy together is the only thing that might cause a change. He has to decide to meet your needs on his own. Good counseling might help him decide this a bit sooner...because it would be made clear in therapy that divorce is the ultimate outcome of mismatched marriages.


No one can force another to go to sex therapy either. And if he truly has low T talking won't help much. If someones chemistry is off talking likely won't help cause they can't see things clearly. From my personal experience talking to someone with low T about sex just made me want to do this :banghead: . That's why books like the Sex Starved Marriage say have things checked out medically first. It could be the only reason they are mismatched is his low T. 



Faithful Wife said:


> That's not how it works (just one treatment).
> 
> I do agree he should get checked out, though.


One shot was all my husband needed to be himself again and realize how off he had been. No that one shot did not last but that shot is what cleared up for him that this was a serious problem. He opted to work on getting his levels up naturally. His levels are doing good now. And our "mismatched marriage" is matched once again.



Fozzy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Even if he decides not to get treatment, just having a diagnosis will at least let you know where he's coming from. And if it comes out all clear, you can scratch it off the list of suspects and work from there.


Agreed, it will give you some answers, regardless of what he does with it.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Let's not get carried away about low T. I am accepting the TAM Challenge and will ask Dr. Quack next time I see him to run me a testosterone test. 

For reference I'm middle 50's, 20 lb overweight, not the athletic type and doubt I had much T to begin with (no body hair but an NBA spec Afro ) and now on year 5 of Propecia and HBP medicine . And an avid cyclist who sleeps 5-6 hours a day. And married to a zero D.

Dr. Quack will probably prescribe T gel consumed orally with bread and peanut butter . 

The mind can overcome a LOT of things. Have him checked out but regardless it's mind driven as much as it is hormone driven.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> Do NOT get tangled up in a discussion with him about getting T treatment.
> 
> One step at a time. For now, laser focus solely on having his T levels TESTED. That's all you're asking for. A simple blood draw.
> 
> As for anything else, there is no basis to even discuss it until you know more......
> 
> Practice a tone of utter disbelief:
> 
> Are you really resisting getting a blood test for me?


I haven't said anything about treatment to him. Just that I was him to get tested. One step at a time!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:smthumbup:

Can you hear the angels singing? Halleluiah!!

He has agreed to go get tested. Now we are just trying to figure out the best date for the appointment. He will have to ask off work, and he needs to ask off for something else as well, so we are trying to line them up so he only has to ask off one day. 

I just want to run around and scream!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Awesome that you talked to the doctor. NOW we're getting somewhere!!!
> 
> You need to make it clear to your husband that _his medical issues directly affect you_, as I suggested before. Therefore if he refuses to go have this investigated despite your requests, he is, in fact, _neglecting you_, and he is _choosing_ to neglect his responsibility to you as your husband. If that doesn't make him see the light and motivate him to_ just go_, it will tell you a lot about where you rank in his world (and I suppose you could tell him that as well).
> 
> Especially now that the doctor herself has stated that there is potentially a medical cause for concern here, for him to just disregard your request that he get checked out would be purely negligent. Not to mention, low T problems can affect fertility, and since he wants babies, you might want to emphasize that to him to motivate him to get moving on this. He cant just want until he decides he wants to start a family to decide to deal with it and expect instant resolution to the problem - sometimes people don't respond as expected to treatment which can cause dramatically extended timelines in getting the problem resolved. Time to start now!


This is how I convinced him. I told him when we got married that he took a vow to care for me. And that he couldn't care for me if he couldn't even care for himself. 

The doctor also told me that low T could affect fertility, which I passed onto him. I think that might have been what finished the deal. He wants children badly, and I think the thought of having trouble having them, scared him. 

I don't really care what changed him mind, I'm just happy he finally agreed to go!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Because he really has every right to refuse it, and *I would refuse hormone therapy as well.*


With all due respect FW, low-T has MANY more repercussions than just low sex drive. It can lead to serious early osteoporosis in men along with a whole host of other serious medical issues.

If you knew you were going to lose massive amounts of bone at an early age, wouldn't you at least consider HRT?

I think when the doctor lays out the many complications that can come from low-T, he will likely want to treat the problem (if he is indeed low-T).


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> With all due respect FW, low-T has MANY more repercussions than just low sex drive. It can lead to serious early osteoporosis in men along with a whole host of other serious medical issues.
> 
> If you knew you were going to lose massive amounts of bone at an early age, wouldn't you at least consider HRT?
> 
> I think when the doctor lays out the many complications that can come from low-T, he will likely want to treat the problem (if he is indeed low-T).


:iagree:

He's got more going on than just low drive. The man fell asleep at 8:30pm last night. As he does all the time. That's not normal. 

If I knew I was deficient in something I would want treatment. I have a LOT of health problems and in the past I've taken medicines and such when I was lacking something. Iron, certain vitamins, etc. I don't see any difference.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh I forgot. We had a wonderful weekend. Played card games with our friends, and went shopping. Husband bought a very nice vest and I got a new dress, skirt, and high heels. Which we will be wearing to a friend's upcoming wedding. 

Husband has been calling my new shoes "stripper heels." They do make me look pretty hot. 

I wore my skirt and heels yesterday and when we got home husband ravished me even though I am still on my period, and we were late for an event. I felt his desire. 

Things are pretty happy in my house right now.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I think sex therapy together is the *only thing* that might cause a change. He has to decide to meet your needs on his own. Good counseling might help him decide this a bit sooner...because it would be made clear in therapy that divorce is the ultimate outcome of mismatched marriages.


Not to pick on you FW, but no amount of sex therapy in the world is going to help a bona fide low-T problem.

My ex-husband was extremely low-T and went many years undiagnosed. He has paid a horrible price in his overall health for this neglect. He has had to undergo repeated bone scans just to make sure he is at therapeutic hormone levels and not continuing to lose bone mass.

Not to mention that he is in a near-diabetic state despite being a healthy weight and exercising. The specialists believe his low-T is a major contributing factor.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh I forgot. We had a wonderful weekend. Played card games with our friends, and went shopping. Husband bought a very nice vest and I got a new dress, skirt, and high heels. Which we will be wearing to a friend's upcoming wedding.
> 
> Husband has been calling my new shoes "stripper heels." They do make me look pretty hot.
> 
> I wore my skirt and heels yesterday and *when we got home husband ravished me even though I am still on my period, and we were late for an event. I felt his desire. *
> 
> Things are pretty happy in my house right now.



:allhail:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> :allhail:




That's exactly how I felt. 

I think his desire had to do with the fact that we hadn't had sex for nearly a week. But I'll take it. lol.

I'm sure the sexy shoes and short skirt, and some cleavage helped too...


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> With all due respect FW, low-T has MANY more repercussions than just low sex drive. It can lead to serious early osteoporosis in men along with a whole host of other serious medical issues.
> 
> If you knew you were going to lose massive amounts of bone at an early age, wouldn't you at least consider HRT?
> 
> I think when the doctor lays out the many complications that can come from low-T, he will likely want to treat the problem (if he is indeed low-T).


Absolutely, there is a book that quotes study after study of health problems related to low T. Things like atherosclerosis, bone loss, insulin resistance, etc. This book talks about at what number each particular problem became a risk, many of them being around 300 but some as high as 400. This is one of the reasons we keep an eye on the numbers as my husband is naturally working on bringing up his numbers. His drive is doing better but we want to make sure everything is doing better. I was so happy when he got over 400, knowing my chances of keeping him around were greater.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Getting on HRT was the best thing my husband has ever done. It has helped him tremendously, not just in the sex department. Curious, if your husband should need T-replacement, I recommend you see an endocrinologist that specializes in the field. Even if your husband's doctor comes back and says that your husband is on the low end of normal and doesn't need treatment now, please get a second opinion from a specialist.

P.S., hurry and schedule that appointment before he changes his mind!!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Getting on HRT was the best thing my husband has ever done. It has helped him tremendously, not just in the sex department. Curious, if your husband should need T-replacement, *I recommend you see an endocrinologist that specializes in the field.* Even if your husband's doctor comes back and says that your husband is on the low end of normal and doesn't need treatment now, please get a second opinion from a specialist.
> 
> P.S., hurry and schedule that appointment before he changes his mind!!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

CW, your family doc is a GREAT place to start, but won't cut it over the long haul if he really needs HRT. (I speak from some experience, I was married for 20 years to a physician specialist.) He will need to be followed by an endocrinologist who is highly trained in all the nuances of hormones and their effects on the body. You have made a GREAT first step, but just know that he will need to be under the care of a specialist if he indeed turns out to be low-T. DON'T let them refer you to a urologist -- nothing against urologists, but hormone balance is a VERY delicate thing. Don't want him to start growing man-boobs.

:lol:

(Just trying to add some levity...) I wish the very best for you and your husband, CW. :smthumbup:


----------



## Abc123wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Next time your FIL just shows up, you could just say in a light-hearted manner something like "good thing you didn't show up 5 minutes ago. You would see much more than We would want anyone to see! You know how it is with young married couples!"

Seriously, you or your husband or both need to be direct and tell family that you love seeing them, but that your time together alone as a married couple is limited and important. Let them know that calling ahead is expected and that you can't or won't change plans for dropping visits. Leave it simple and direct and watch them turn super red/embarrassed but don't feel bad.


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> He will need to be followed by an endocrinologist


This is part of TRT's bad rap (yes, there a risks but a guy who needs it needs it). With all the ads around many guys are showing up asking/telling their docs they want TRT. Far too often doctors will write a RX without even an initial test and with no follow up. That is just asking for trouble and is so very wrong.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well done. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> This is how I convinced him. I told him when we got married that he took a vow to care for me. And that he couldn't care for me if he couldn't even care for himself.
> 
> The doctor also told me that low T could affect fertility, which I passed onto him. I think that might have been what finished the deal. He wants children badly, and I think the thought of having trouble having them, scared him.
> 
> I don't really care what changed him mind, I'm just happy he finally agreed to go!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks. 

I'm feeling quite confident with myself here lately. I don't feel meek or taken advantage of. I feel stubborn, driven, assertive. I think my new attitude is working. 

No more avoiding tough conversations, or not speaking my mind. I'll get what I want, dang it.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

All he needs is a blood draw. That's it. He should be able to get it done before work, or during lunch. 

This is not a half day off work. At most it's a come in an hour late, leave an hour early, or take a slightly longer than normal lunch. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm feeling quite confident with myself here lately. I don't feel meek or taken advantage of. I feel stubborn, driven, assertive. I think my new attitude is working.
> 
> No more avoiding tough conversations, or not speaking my mind. I'll get what I want, dang it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> All he needs is a blood draw. That's it. He should be able to get it done before work, or during lunch.
> 
> This is not a half day off work. At most it's a come in an hour late, leave an hour early, or take a slightly longer than normal lunch.


I know that. But it has to be done before 10am or insurance won't cover it, is what I was told at the office.

So he could just go into work late. But we'd really like it to line up with something else, because he needs to take off anyway. So we are just deciding which is better. I'm talking with the doctor tonight.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Whoo-hooo! He's FINALLY agreed to get the T test! I figured raising the fertility concern would get his attention!

This is HUGE! You are on a roll now and making some SERIOUS progress! CONGRATULATIONS! This is what we've all been hanging around here waiting to see happen:smthumbup:

If all goes well, this important step could be the beginning of a whole new existence for you guys! I do believe THERE IS HOPE!




TheCuriousWife said:


> This is how I convinced him. I told him when we got married that he took a vow to care for me. And that he couldn't care for me if he couldn't even care for himself.
> 
> The doctor also told me that low T could affect fertility, which I passed onto him. I think that might have been what finished the deal. He wants children badly, and I think the thought of having trouble having them, scared him.
> 
> I don't really care what changed him mind, I'm just happy he finally agreed to go!


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, if your husband should need T-replacement, I recommend you see an endocrinologist that specializes in the field. Even if your husband's doctor comes back and says that your husband is on the low end of normal and doesn't need treatment now, please get a second opinion from a specialist.


Yes, so true, when it comes to hormones (or frankly a lot of other lab tests for that matter), being on the low end of normal can still be something to be concerned about, and may actually need treatment. A lot of docs don't acknowledge this, and feel that as long as its within normal range its normal - even if its the very bottom rung of the range, but my own medical experiences taught me the hard way that its not so. Low end of normal for almost any medical test can definitely be associated with symptoms in many cases. Only the most progressive of doctors (and endos) typically acknowledge this. So just something to be aware of and watch for. The patient is their own best advocate! Take it from someone who's been through the school of hard knocks to learn this.


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

the only problem is that the range is so wide that he could come out and the doctor could pronounce and normal even though it is low and the symptoms support it. then what?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

That's typical of many tests. That's why it's a good idea to discuss the findings with both your personal doctor and the specialist. The specialist may not have your history as detailed as your doctor so...

If you have decent insurance go for the Mayo Clinic version...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Okay guys. I have the labs scheduled for October 11th. Which is the nearest date we have open.  Busy busy. But so glad to have it settled!

But I'm having trouble getting the appointment set for the results and follow up. They don't have any open in the next month or two for the days we wanted, so now I'm trying to figure out the best days for us both to take off. *fingers crossed* It's going to get done, but I was really hoping for sooner rather than later. Oh well. At least the labs will be done. That's the hard part.

Husband has decided he is too embarrassed to go see our doctor/friend/neighbor. So I am getting him an appointment with one of the other doctors in the clinic. Our doctor told me they would do a good job. So I'm really hoping they take us seriously. Personally I would feel more comfortable talking to our friend, but I understand that he doesn't want to share his sexual problems with a person he sees a lot, and if he is willing to open up more with another doctor, so be it.

Frankly I'm really scared that he will test low/normal and they will tell him he is fine and send him home, and he will use it as a time to say "I told you so" and never investigate further.

I know this is horrible, but I am praying that the numbers are low enough that they take us seriously, and that they see it as an actual problem that needs taken care of.

I'm also scared that we are going to get to the doctors and when they ask what is wrong or what issues we are having he will say nothing.

How do I handle this?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Got appointment set for 15th. So everything should be ironed out now, as long as he can get off work.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW and everyone else...my comments about HRT were in part, to try to prepare CW for the possibility that even if he does have low T, he may choose not to do HRT. I believe CW has said in the past things about how her husband won't take any type of supplement/drugs and is vehemently against them. (She can correct me if I had that wrong). 

I personally would not take HRT either because there are a lot of unknown risks, still. He is a very young man and we don't actually know what happens to a young man when we pump him full of T for a couple decades. We also don't know what it may do to his future offspring. For those here who have done it and are so happy about the results, I totally get that and am happy for you! But that truly will mean nothing to CW's husband. It is his choice, and he may not make that choice.

And even if he does make that choice, it might not make any difference. Again for those of you who have seen success with T and sex drive, there are thousands of stories of men whose bodies would not absorb it and/or it simply didn't have that affect on them. It is not a guaranteed cure-all and people are different. But most importantly, he might refuse to take it! Why should we pressure CW on this as if this is the only hope she has?

I agree he should get tested and it is GREAT he agreed to the appointment...but that doesn't actually mean the problem is fixed now.

I'm guessing that as of right now, he has agreed to the test because she has made him understand this is a health issue...but I bet he has no idea she is hoping the test will be low AND he will be put on T. Once he realizes that is what she wants, he may be really ticked off about that.

I'm just being very cautious with CW, because I doubt this will just be an easy solution and get all better quickly....but if it does, of course I'll be elated for CW! If it doesn't, she needs to be prepared for what to do next.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know it. 

I shouldn't be getting too excited, or putting all my eggs in one basket. But I can't help but feel a little excited, since I've finally made some visible progress. I've wanted him to get checked out since like day 2 of our marriage. So this feels like a BIG step to me.

I will try to keep calm, and remember that it is possible nothing will change. But at least this will be something I can scratch off the list.

Thanks for bringing me back to earth.


----------



## doobie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW - keeping my fingers and toes crossed that it all goes well for you and that things improve from this point forward. Keep positive  - big hugs


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know it.
> 
> I shouldn't be getting too excited, or putting all my eggs in one basket. But I can't help but feel a little excited, since I've finally made some visible progress. I've wanted him to get checked out since like day 2 of our marriage. So this feels like a BIG step to me.
> I will try to keep calm, and remember that it is possible nothing will change.


On the other hand, it never hurts to think positively! Believe that good is coming your way and you just might attract it


----------



## Joe75

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi CW

I am dealing with low testosterone. Hopefully my experience might be of some use; and thus, the following is provided for your and your husband’s consideration.

Be aware that the testosterone range scale used by the testing lab may be simplistic. I discovered that my testing lab uses only one range scale for comparison testing (8.4 to 28.8 nmol/L). Because of the preceding, my attending GP declared me “okay” as my first testing result was above 8.4 (although not by much). The problem with the one broad range scale approach is that it didn’t sufficiently account for changing levels of testosterone as a man ages. You may what to find out what testosterone range scale your GP/testing lab is using. If it is not multi-level, you may what to start searching for such a chart. Surprising, the GPs I saw were not helpful in this regard. After much research, I found the following chart:

7 months to 9 years: Less than 30 ng/dL (less than 1.04 nmol/L) 

10–13 years: 1–619 ng/dL (0.04–21.48 nmol/L)

14–15 years: 100–540 ng/dL (3.47–18.74 nmol/L)

16–19 years: 200–970 ng/dL (6.94–33.66 nmol/L)

20–39 years: 270–1,080 ng/dL (9.00–37.48 nmol/L)

40–59 years: 350–890 ng/dL (12.15–30.88 nmol/ L)

60 years and older: 350–720 ng/dL (12.15–24.98 nmol/L)

Unfortunately, I cannot remember what site I pulled this from; but, so far, I have been not been challenged by doctors when I make reference to it. When compared to this chart, my testosterone testing results were consistently below the low end for my age group.

The caution from Faithful Wife regarding risks associated with testosterone replacement therapy is well-founded. TRT is an evolving science and presently, the evidence on the associated known risks is mixed. I am over 50 and the risk I struggled with was the possible linkage of TRT and prostate cancer. TRT in itself does not cause prostate cancer; but, if the cancer is present, TRT can accelerate the growth. I researched the heck out of this and with gained knowledge I was able to come to a mitigating strategy with my Endocrinologist that I am comfortable with. 

Noting the above regarding own research, going into a Doctor’s appointment as a well-informed patient, who has done the homework, changes the dynamics resulting in an informed participation in any medical course of action. Further to this, see if your husband can obtain the test results before the follow-up with the doctor. This would allow you both to fully review the results prior to the doctor’s appointment, having ‘skill-testing’ questions ready to go. In my case, it was a matter of registering online with the testing lab and then logging in to obtain the results.

If TRT is in play, then it is time to move from your GP to an Endocrinologist before any treatment starts. Notwithstanding the competency of your GP, it does not compare to the much higher level of skill and expertise that an Endocrinologist brings to the table. TRT is serious business and noting your husband’s age, I would suggest you would want the best medical expertise in your husband’s corner
.
If your husband’s testosterone level is low but within the range scale for his age group, seeking a second opinion from an Endocrinologist would not be time wasted.

Hoping for the best for you and your husband. 

Regards

Joe75


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Awesome advice from Joe75. Your words of experience may prove invaluable to CW. I know from experience how tricky those ranges can be for the docs to interpret. I dealt with other hormonal imbalances and went thru this. One of the worst things that can happen is to fall within normal range, but on the low end, and be told everything is fine because of the doctors own short sightedness in interpreting ranges. 

I'm going to keep a copy of that T level chart. Fortunately my husband doesnt have T issues, but in case its ever a problem in the future, that chart is invaluable. Wish I had something similar to refer to when I was battling with docs to treat my own hormonally related illnesses for years. (Which finally did happen after years of struggle which is why I am healthy and well today!)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks Joe. I had already found that chart. 

After reading up on the matter, I think if he is lower than the 400-500 range, I will be requesting future investigation and/or treatment. 

As the testing draws closer, and I starting to panic a little.

Husband still sees nothing as a problem, and I don't want to get in the office and him say everything is fine and dandy. What should I make aware to the doctor?

I don't want to get in there and say something that will hurt his ego, but I want her to know what is happening. I had a good chat with the other doctor, but this one does not know our problems, and I feel weird having to repeat everything with my husband right there. I have never told my husband that him loosing his erection bothers me.  I did not want to make things worse, and/or make him feel more pressured about something that is out of his control.

He is fully aware that I think he doesn't have much of a sex drive, and that I am not happy with it, but he is not aware that him loosing his erection is not normal. What is the best way to discuss this? I think it needs to be a talk before the doctor, so we are in agreement. But I am scared on how to approach the subject.


----------



## happybuddha

Wow ...i wish Iieven had sex once a week. I must say after reading this and hearing some one now say that 3 to 4 times a week is not enough....makes me feel less ashamed of even asking for sex a few times a week...

let's...face it...I wish my wife wanted sex as much as some of the ladies on here.....I have already invested ...lots of time on trying to figure out what makes her happy and how to please her....when you only get it 1 time every two to three weeks the tension does build.....

I am hoping after she goes to doctor ...and works on some of the hormonal that her desire comes back....

Lately she'sbeen asking more questions about the doctor and alll...which Iis a good sign vs, me telling her ...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I couldn't take it anymore. Yesterday I broke down and started crying for the first time in a long time. Then I felt like an idiot because I was crying because I was horny. 

Husband of course wanted to know what was wrong, and I spilled everything. We talked for several hours, and it was good for us.

He was bewildered that I was crying about not having sex for 4 days. I explained to him how when he doesn't seem to desire me it makes me feel very unloved. He just couldn't grasp that because sex has nothing to do with love to him. He was very sorry, and told me that he shows me love in many other ways, and he does. Helping me wash the dishes, going to work everyday, getting up to get me a drink or a blanket, snuggling me at night, telling me he loves me (which he does at least 3 times a day), etc. For him, words of affirmation and acts of service show that he loves me. Sex is just a fun activity. 

Of course then I just felt like a sexual pig. 

We talked about our differences, and we both agreed it was just how we are, and neither of us are wrong. He really wishes he was as sexual as I am, and I really wish I could turn my libido off. I think we both just want to be happy and not have such a mismatch. But I don't think there is a solution. We are just too different.

I'm not perfect either, and we talked about what we both could do to help make the mismatch less painful. I have promised to try not to take rejection so personally, and that if I am unbearably horny that I will just tell him instead of waiting for him to think of it, because he doesn't. He also doesn't want to be pressured to think that if he rejects me that I will think he doesn't love me. 

He promised to try harder not to neglect my needs, and that if he is feeling horny or would be open to sex later in the day he will text me a code word, so I can get excited and look forward to sex. That's a long way from sexting or flirting, but it's a start. 

We both agreed to be more sensitive to each others feelings.

I think my intensity scared him a little. He just doesn't grasp how important sex is to me, just like I don't grasp how unimportant it is to him.

It really does bothers him that he can't satisfy me, and I thought he was going to start crying along with me. I'm sure he feels like less of a man. In no way do I want to pin this all on him, or make him out to be a bad guy. Because he isn't. 

I just can't seem to control my crazy mind. Logically I know I shouldn't be upset about not having sex for a few days, and I know that doesn't mean he doesn't love me. But I can't help it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You will need to continue to have talks like this, because talking about the problem will be the only way you can keep it on his radar. If you have to bring it up every week (though not so intensely), then do it. This will have to become a habit for you, because it will not become habit for him to "remember" your needs, it just won't. You will always have to be the one in charge of getting your needs met, which will include being the one to instigate a discussion when it is necessary.

I wish these situations were easier, but it will always be on the HD spouse to push the LD to "remember" their needs. It is good he at least acknowledged they ARE needs.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes. He used to not think that it was a need. But now he at least acknowledges that it is a need for me. He said he doesn't blame me when I get hungry, and he shouldn't blame me when I get horny. I can't control either, it just happens. 

Honestly the thought of having to have this discussion every week and always be the one to initiate for all eternity, really depresses me. 

Still keeping my fingers crossed that the doctor appointment helps in some way. If he would just think about sex occasionally and have a little desire, I think it would make everything a lot easier. I'd rather it be like 30%/70% instead of 0%/100%.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The feeling you are having is why many of us do eventually end up divorced. We just can't do it anymore after a certain point.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I couldn't take it anymore. Yesterday I broke down and started crying for the first time in a long time. Then I felt like an idiot because I was crying because I was horny.
> 
> Husband of course wanted to know what was wrong, and I spilled everything. We talked for several hours, and it was good for us.
> 
> He was bewildered that I was crying about not having sex for 4 days. I explained to him how when he doesn't seem to desire me it makes me feel very unloved. He just couldn't grasp that because sex has nothing to do with love to him. He was very sorry, and told me that he shows me love in many other ways, and he does. Helping me wash the dishes, going to work everyday, getting up to get me a drink or a blanket, snuggling me at night, telling me he loves me (which he does at least 3 times a day), etc. For him, words of affirmation and acts of service show that he loves me. Sex is just a fun activity.
> 
> Of course then I just felt like a sexual pig.
> 
> We talked about our differences, and we both agreed it was just how we are, and neither of us are wrong. He really wishes he was as sexual as I am, and I really wish I could turn my libido off. I think we both just want to be happy and not have such a mismatch. But I don't think there is a solution. We are just too different.
> 
> I'm not perfect either, and we talked about what we both could do to help make the mismatch less painful.* I have promised to try not to take rejection so personally, and that if I am unbearably horny that I will just tell him instead of waiting for him to think of it, because he doesn't*. He also doesn't want to be pressured to think that if he rejects me that I will think he doesn't love me.
> 
> He promised to try harder not to neglect my needs, and that if he is feeling horny or would be open to sex later in the day he will text me a code word, so I can get excited and look forward to sex. That's a long way from sexting or flirting, but it's a start.
> 
> We both agreed to be more sensitive to each others feelings.
> 
> I think my intensity scared him a little. He just doesn't grasp how important sex is to me, just like I don't grasp how unimportant it is to him.
> 
> It really does bothers him that he can't satisfy me, and I thought he was going to start crying along with me. I'm sure he feels like less of a man. In no way do I want to pin this all on him, or make him out to be a bad guy. Because he isn't.
> 
> I just can't seem to control my crazy mind. Logically I know I shouldn't be upset about not having sex for a few days, and I know that doesn't mean he doesn't love me. But I can't help it.


I have a difficult time wrapping my head around this. Being aware of your spouse's needs should ALWAYS be something at the front of your mind. I've heard this very thing so many times ("I just don't think about it") and it always makes me a little cranky. My wife's needs involve help around the house, words of affirmation and non-sexual affection. Know what I did this morning? After I packed the kids lunches, I gave her a hug and complimented her outfit. Then I proceeded to clean the kitchen. 

These are things I do because I know she needs them as part of the marriage, and so I'm happy to do them. Does it just randomly occur to me that I need to remember to clean stuff just the way she wants it? Nope. I learned. I remind myself. I take the initiative because it's important to her.

It GALLS me when I hear it tossed off that "well I just don't ever think about sex, so that's why I don't initiate". Well, suck it up buttercup, and start holding up your end of the marriage.

rant over.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> I have a difficult time wrapping my head around this. Being aware of your spouse's needs should ALWAYS be something at the front of your mind. I've heard this very thing so many times ("I just don't think about it") and it always makes me a little cranky. My wife's needs involve help around the house, words of affirmation and non-sexual affection. Know what I did this morning? After I packed the kids lunches, I gave her a hug and complimented her outfit. Then I proceeded to clean the kitchen.
> 
> These are things I do because I know she needs them as part of the marriage, and so I'm happy to do them. Does it just randomly occur to me that I need to remember to clean stuff just the way she wants it? Nope. I learned. I remind myself. I take the initiative because it's important to her.
> 
> It GALLS me when I hear it tossed off that "well I just don't ever think about sex, so that's why I don't initiate". *Well, suck it up buttercup, and start holding up your end of the marriage*.
> 
> rant over.


And yet...if she did that, you would know she doesn't really WANT sex with you and therefore, you wouldn't want it either. But it is different with chores or words...you can do them even if you don't have a deep desire to, and it won't be hurtful for the receiver. Plus I'm assuming you really DID like her outfit, right? You wouldn't make up lies, because you wouldn't have to.

For an LD to do what you are suggesting is like them telling a lie to your face when you KNOW it is a lie.

The only self-respecting option is to realize that a mismatch can't really be fixed.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Expecting a LD spouse to occasionally initiate sex is asking them to lie? I don't think I'd go that far at all. CW's husband isn't lying to her face when they have sex. My wife isn't lying to me when we have sex. If I were expecting porn-star gyrations while dwarfs and marching bands come bursting out of the closet, then yes I'd be asking her to lie. I don't think expecting a spouse to initiate sex occasionally is lying. 

My wife has straight up told me that she's been in the mood before but hasn't said anything. Yet she couldn't explain to me WHY she didn't say anything, it just didn't "occur" to her that she actually COULD make a move. Kind of like the old joke--sometimes I get a strong urge to work hard, so I just sit down and wait for the urge to pass.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> I have a difficult time wrapping my head around this. Being aware of your spouse's needs should ALWAYS be something at the front of your mind. I've heard this very thing so many times ("I just don't think about it") and it always makes me a little cranky. My wife's needs involve help around the house, words of affirmation and non-sexual affection. Know what I did this morning? After I packed the kids lunches, I gave her a hug and complimented her outfit. Then I proceeded to clean the kitchen.
> 
> These are things I do because I know she needs them as part of the marriage, and so I'm happy to do them. Does it just randomly occur to me that I need to remember to clean stuff just the way she wants it? Nope. I learned. I remind myself. I take the initiative because it's important to her.
> 
> It GALLS me when I hear it tossed off that "well I just don't ever think about sex, so that's why I don't initiate". Well, suck it up buttercup, and start holding up your end of the marriage.
> 
> rant over.



I totally agree. I wash his clothes and always make sure he has a uniform clean, even if I don't need my clothes washed as often as his. I've learned to remember.

To be fair. He does realize that I need sex, and tries to initiate every other day (because that is what we decided on in the past) even though that is not his ideal. But if we get busy, or he is tired, or I'm not actively reminding him by flirting, hinting, etc, he can forget. So another day will go by. Whatever, fine. It happens. But if he forgets again and now 4 days go by, I'm having a breakdown, like I had yesterday.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Faithful Wife is also correct. Sex isn't even the main problem in my marriage. It's the lack of me feeling desired. I want him to want sex with me. I want him to lust after me. And he just doesn't. 

So even if he gives in and has sex with me, a lot of times it doesn't fill the void. I know it's not the genuine and raw passion that I want. It's more like a band-aid, rather than the cure. So I'll still take it, but it doesn't satisfy me completely.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I couldn't take it anymore. Yesterday I broke down and started crying for the first time in a long time. Then I felt like an idiot because I was crying because I was horny.
> 
> Husband of course wanted to know what was wrong, and I spilled everything. We talked for several hours, and it was good for us.
> 
> *Glad you talked*
> 
> He was bewildered that I was crying about not having sex for 4 days. I explained to him how when he doesn't seem to desire me it makes me feel very *unloved*. He just couldn't grasp that because *sex has nothing to do with love* to him. He was very sorry, and told me that he shows me love in many other ways, and he does. Helping me wash the dishes, going to work everyday, getting up to get me a drink or a blanket, snuggling me at night, telling me he loves me (which he does at least 3 times a day), etc. For him, words of affirmation and acts of service show that he loves me. Sex is just a fun activity.
> 
> *I know, the LD person just does not see sex as a loving connection, but as an activity. They just don't understand the idea of two people having this passionate bond that they alone share and use to express their love toward one another. To the LD, sex is just something physical like scratching your back.*
> 
> Of course then I just felt like a sexual pig.
> 
> *You are not! Just a person that wants to feel loved in that special way.*
> 
> We talked about our differences, and we both agreed it was just how we are, and neither of us are wrong. He really wishes he was as sexual as I am, and I really wish I could turn my libido off. I think we both just want to be happy and not have such a mismatch. But I don't think there is a solution. We are just too different.
> 
> I'm not perfect either, and we talked about what we both could do to help make the mismatch less painful. I have promised to try not to take rejection so personally, and that if I am unbearably horny that I will just tell him instead of waiting for him to think of it, because he doesn't. He also doesn't want to be pressured to think that if he rejects me that I will think he doesn't love me.
> 
> *I just don't get this one being the HD person. How can the LD one insist that you don't take rejection personally? Is not that the definition of rejection? It is you that is being rejected. Not a meal that you just prepared.*
> 
> He promised to try harder not to neglect my needs, and that if he is feeling horny or would be open to sex later in the day he will text me a code word, so I can get excited and look forward to sex. That's a long way from sexting or flirting, but it's a start.
> 
> We both agreed to be more sensitive to each others feelings.
> 
> I think my intensity scared him a little. He just doesn't grasp how important sex is to me, just like I don't grasp how unimportant it is to him.
> 
> It really does bothers him that he can't satisfy me, and I thought he was going to start crying along with me. I'm sure he feels like less of a man. In no way do I want to pin this all on him, or make him out to be a bad guy. Because he isn't.
> 
> I just can't seem to control my crazy mind. Logically I know I shouldn't be upset about not having sex for a few days, and I know that doesn't mean he doesn't love me. But I can't help it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> Expecting a LD spouse to occasionally initiate sex is asking them to lie?


CW wants much more than for him to occasionally initiate sex.

And you want much more than that too, don't you?

Are you REALLY saying all you would want was the occasional initiation?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> CW wants much more than for him to occasionally initiate sex.
> 
> And you want much more than that too, don't you?
> 
> Are you REALLY saying all you would want was the occasional initiation?


No, I bet she wants more than just initiation. She wants the big follow through ... where he ravishes her. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Joe75

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi CW

Yesterday, I had written what I humbly thought was a well-considered response to your posting #2758 (Monday, 09:18 AM). I planned one more reading this morning before sending. However, after reading your today’s posts (#2760, #2762), it is sitting crumpled at the bottom of my waste basket (lol). Instead, I offer the following for your consideration.

First of all, I would suggest a change of the overriding theme of this undertaking now that your husband is scheduled for testosterone testing. Up to the present, the emphasis has been towards the sexual aspect of your marriage. If you think about it, possible low testosterone, in its entirely, is actually a health and not a sex issue. The low sex drive, long term problem in maintaining an erection and fatigue are warning signs that his overall health may be compromised. It is possible that if you take the approach that his overall health is the real issue, the result could be his continued engagement in the medical process. After all, due to the health warning signs that has manifested so far, the prudent, logical course of action is to seek medical engagement (how can your husband argue against that). 

I would consider yesterday’s discussion as Part One of the “talk before the doctor”. Hopefully, Part One, at least for the short term, has dealt with the emotions. I would suggest now it is time to get clinical and that is the purpose of Part Two of the “talk”. Noting that testing is scheduled for 11 Oct, earlier next week sit down with your husband and list to the paper, the health warning facts/observations that you wish to bring to the doctor’s attention without emotion and opinion. For example, a fact is the long-term problem that your husband has maintaining an erection. An emotion is how this brothers you and an opinion is this “is not normal” (let the doctor draw his own conclusions). Also, draw up your ‘skill-testing’ questions. Finally, what is the outcome you are both are hoping for. You may also wish to discuss what the approach will be if your husband’s number is low, but, in range for his age group. Once done, put it aside and then review same the day before the doctor’s appointment (take this paper to the appointment and use it as a checklist to ensure all is covered).

It is important that your husband understands that test results can only identify that a health problem exists. It cannot tell the doctor how it is affecting a patient. For example, if you read the early posts of EI/B1, B1 was in a depression due to his low testosterone – this is not the case with me. The dialogue with the doctor is the critical second part of testing and your husband’s engaged participation is essential.

Do not be surprised, if the doctor's appointment may be the start of the beginning in regards to medical treatment. If your husband has low testosterone, the doctor may take a cautious approach. This could include additional testing to establish that the low number is not a one of, recommending lifestyle changes and alternate treatment to testosterone replacement therapy. Also, if TRT is in play, your husband may want to pause at one point so he can come to terms with the associated risks. I been at for nine months without starting TRT for most of the above reasons. 

CW, so far you have been driving the bus. Remember, that in the end the doctor/patient relationship is with your husband. However, your participation in the follow-up meeting will speak volumes to the doctor on how serious this matter is. I know that you are in trepidation over this; but, please take some peace of mind that a medical course of action has commenced. Hopefully, this will lead to some clarity and a way forward.

The above is based on the assumption that you will not see the lab results before the doctor’s appointment. If the lab results are available, this will be of significant assistance to you both in preparing for the follow-up doctor’s appointment and changing the dynamics of that meeting in your favour.

Regards 

Joe75


----------



## 20yrsofmarriage

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> I have a difficult time wrapping my head around this. Being aware of your spouse's needs should ALWAYS be something at the front of your mind. I've heard this very thing so many times ("I just don't think about it") and it always makes me a little cranky. My wife's needs involve help around the house, words of affirmation and non-sexual affection. Know what I did this morning? After I packed the kids lunches, I gave her a hug and complimented her outfit. Then I proceeded to clean the kitchen.
> 
> These are things I do because I know she needs them as part of the marriage, and so I'm happy to do them. Does it just randomly occur to me that I need to remember to clean stuff just the way she wants it? Nope. I learned. I remind myself. I take the initiative because it's important to her.
> 
> It GALLS me when I hear it tossed off that "well I just don't ever think about sex, so that's why I don't initiate". Well, suck it up buttercup, and start holding up your end of the marriage.
> 
> 
> rant over.


5 stars for you-for doing things that she likes. I told my hubby that I find things like that as a turn on but he says it's hogwash. He can't wrap around his mind that sex goes beyond the physical. He doesn't do anything around the house and doesn't help with the kids, but wants me to ravage him 24/7.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Joe75 said:


> Hi CW
> 
> First of all, I would suggest a change of the overriding theme of this undertaking now that your husband is scheduled for testosterone testing. Up to the present, the emphasis has been towards the sexual aspect of your marriage. If you think about it, possible low testosterone, in its entirely, is actually a health and not a sex issue. The low sex drive, long term problem in maintaining an erection and fatigue are warning signs that his overall health may be compromised. It is possible that if you take the approach that his overall health is the real issue, the result could be his continued engagement in the medical process. After all, due to the health warning signs that has manifested so far, the prudent, logical course of action is to seek medical engagement (how can your husband argue against that).


I agree. When talking with him I have always made an emphasis that I am worried about his health. Not once I have I mentioned that i want him to get tested so his libido would raise, or we would have more sex. I just want to make sure something deeper isn't going on. Better sex, would be a welcome but not expected addition. 



> I would consider yesterday’s discussion as Part One of the “talk before the doctor”. Hopefully, Part One, at least for the short term, has dealt with the emotions. I would suggest now it is time to get clinical and that is the purpose of Part Two of the “talk”. Noting that testing is scheduled for 11 Oct, earlier next week sit down with your husband and list to the paper, the health warning facts/observations that you wish to bring to the doctor’s attention without emotion and opinion. For example, a fact is the long-term problem that your husband has maintaining an erection. An emotion is how this brothers you and an opinion is this “is not normal” (let the doctor draw his own conclusions). Also, draw up your ‘skill-testing’ questions. Finally, what is the outcome you are both are hoping for. You may also wish to discuss what the approach will be if your husband’s number is low, but, in range for his age group. Once done, put it aside and then review same the day before the doctor’s appointment (take this paper to the appointment and use it as a checklist to ensure all is covered).
> 
> It is important that your husband understands that test results can only identify that a health problem exists. It cannot tell the doctor how it is affecting a patient. For example, if you read the early posts of EI/B1, B1 was in a depression due to his low testosterone – this is not the case with me. The dialogue with the doctor is the critical second part of testing and your husband’s engaged participation is essential.
> 
> Do not be surprised, if the doctor's appointment may be the start of the beginning in regards to medical treatment. If your husband has low testosterone, the doctor may take a cautious approach. This could include additional testing to establish that the low number is not a one of, recommending lifestyle changes and alternate treatment to testosterone replacement therapy. Also, if TRT is in play, your husband may want to pause at one point so he can come to terms with the associated risks. I been at for nine months without starting TRT for most of the above reasons.
> 
> CW, so far you have been driving the bus. Remember, that in the end the doctor/patient relationship is with your husband. However, your participation in the follow-up meeting will speak volumes to the doctor on how serious this matter is. I know that you are in trepidation over this; but, please take some peace of mind that a medical course of action has commenced. Hopefully, this will lead to some clarity and a way forward.
> 
> The above is based on the assumption that you will not see the lab results before the doctor’s appointment. If the lab results are available, this will be of significant assistance to you both in preparing for the follow-up doctor’s appointment and changing the dynamics of that meeting in your favour.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Joe75



Thank you! This is all great advice. I dread it, but I will need to sit down and talk with husband about the test, and what we both expect. 

Also we are getting the tests done at a separate place from the doctor, and I believe they send us the results personally, which we then take to the doctors. That will give us a chance to process, and prepare.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> You will need to continue to have talks like this, because talking about the problem will be the only way you can keep it on his radar. If you have to bring it up every week (though not so intensely), then do it. This will have to become a habit for you, because it will not become habit for him to "remember" your needs, it just won't. You will always have to be the one in charge of getting your needs met, which will include being the one to instigate a discussion when it is necessary.
> 
> I wish these situations were easier, but it will always be on the HD spouse to push the LD to "remember" their needs. It is good he at least acknowledged they ARE needs.


Always? Maybe my man is just extrordinary.



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. He used to not think that it was a need. But now he at least acknowledges that it is a need for me. He said he doesn't blame me when I get hungry, and he shouldn't blame me when I get horny. I can't control either, it just happens.
> 
> Honestly the thought of having to have this discussion every week and always be the one to initiate for all eternity, really depresses me.
> 
> Still keeping my fingers crossed that the doctor appointment helps in some way. If he would just think about sex occasionally and have a little desire, I think it would make everything a lot easier. I'd rather it be like 30%/70% instead of 0%/100%.


I don't think it always has to be this bad. My husband initiates most everyday and occassionally we miss a day. His T numbers have come up but they are not sky high. He doesn't burn with desire all the time but I am very happy. He makes me feel sexy and loved. .

If I were you I wouldn't get depressed and give up just yet.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I don't think it always has to be this bad. My husband initiates most everyday and occassionally we miss a day. His T numbers have come up but they are not sky high. He doesn't burn with desire all the time but I am very *happy*. *He makes me feel sexy and loved. *.
> 
> If I were you I wouldn't get depressed and give up just yet.


That is it!  Some people that are less than HD have learned to make their spouse happy, to feel desired, and to feel sexy. Why, because they love them and want the best for them. Being the best spouse possible for your spouse means to understand their desires and do your best to meet them. I can't believe it is all that hard to be LD and show you love them and think they are sexy.

I am not the LD one. Still I can't believe it is all that hard to make an effort for someone so special.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But if your spouse does NOT step up to try to make you feel desired and sexy, it doesn't necessarily mean they "don't love you". That's the false thinking here.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No, I just meant that your spouse can put extra effort in even if they are LD because they love you and want to give to you.

But it is true, they can love you and not put the extra effort in, but still love you all the same.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Right, and just because CW lusts after her husband, doesn't "mean" she loves him. She experiences it as if it is attached to her love for him directly, but actually she might lust for him even if she didn't love him or know him. We can have lust for many people we don't love. So this stuff is very hard for the HD, because they do feel their lust is tied to their love, but to the LD, this doesn't "mean they love you". I can understand the LD feeling of "you just want to get laid". Because my husband has made me see that when it is happening. In other words, my sexual frustration is not his burden. He may help me with that burden if he chooses, but he doesn't feel the burden and won't take it on as if it is his to carry. He just says things like "I'm sorry you're frustrated honey" in an honest and caring way, and that's it. This is an example of when I was "whining" about being horny and he wasn't into having sex at that moment for legit reasons. 

Our sitch is not like CW's though, I just used to try to make my husband "feel" my frustration and "help" me with it. What he helped me see was that me wanting him to have sex with me because I felt sexually frustrated was neither flattering nor sexy. Which was a good lesson for me.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,
Does this mean you could have stayed with your first H and been happy with him? 

What I mean is, if you had realized all this stuff back then, could you have been happy with him?


Because here's the thing. 

I absolutely agree someone can love you, and not want sex as much as you. 

I ALSO believe that if your partner is comfortable refusing to hit your minimum frequency needs, they might not love you as much as you might want to think they do. 

I guess a different way of saying this is: If the LD firmly believes that they have full control of frequency, AND feel no desire to find a happy compromise, then something is profoundly broken. 







Faithful Wife said:


> Right, and just because CW lusts after her husband, doesn't "mean" she loves him. She experiences it as if it is attached to her love for him directly, but actually she might lust for him even if she didn't love him or know him. We can have lust for many people we don't love. So this stuff is very hard for the HD, because they do feel their lust is tied to their love, but to the LD, this doesn't "mean they love you". I can understand the LD feeling of "you just want to get laid". Because my husband has made me see that when it is happening. In other words, my sexual frustration is not his burden. He may help me with that burden if he chooses, but he doesn't feel the burden and won't take it on as if it is his to carry. He just says things like "I'm sorry you're frustrated honey" in an honest and caring way, and that's it. This is an example of when I was "whining" about being horny and he wasn't into having sex at that moment for legit reasons.
> 
> Our sitch is not like CW's though, I just used to try to make my husband "feel" my frustration and "help" me with it. What he helped me see was that me wanting him to have sex with me because I felt sexually frustrated was neither flattering nor sexy. Which was a good lesson for me.


----------



## doobie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> No, I just meant that your spouse can put extra effort in even if they are LD because they love you and want to give to you.
> 
> But it is true, they can love you and not put the extra effort in, but still love you all the same.


I don't doubt that my husband loves me, I just know that he doesn't love me enough to make the effort to have sex with me. He finally showed a little interest in me last night while we were out because a few other men were flirting with me and I flirted back, making it plain I was flattered and up for a bit of banter. My husband actually put his hand on my shoulders when he walked past me. I was hoping for a bit of attention when we got home, however, he just went to bed and fell straight to sleep, leaving me to let the dog out and close up the house for the night. 

But still, I've woken up this morning in a much better mood than usual as I had a little male attention last night, I'm flattered and feel like a woman for a change.

I really envy the HD people here whose LD partners will at least make some effort.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> I ALSO believe that if your partner is comfortable refusing to hit your minimum frequency needs, they might not love you as much as you might want to think they do.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess a different way of saying this is: If the LD firmly believes that they have full control of frequency, AND feel no desire to find a happy compromise, then something is profoundly broken.



That's the thing. We see love as a discrete entity, either on or off but in practice the intensity varies... 

Also the LD's response as MEM states above is critical. Most LD HD cases you see in here are the broken variety with the infrequent happy ending.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> FW,
> Does this mean you could have stayed with your first H and been happy with him?
> 
> What I mean is, if you had realized all this stuff back then, could you have been happy with him?
> 
> 
> Because here's the thing.
> 
> I absolutely agree someone can love you, and not want sex as much as you.
> 
> I ALSO believe that if your partner is comfortable refusing to hit your minimum frequency needs, they might not love you as much as you might want to think they do.
> 
> I guess a different way of saying this is: If the LD firmly believes that they have full control of frequency, AND feel no desire to find a happy compromise, then something is profoundly broken.



I'm confused by the question. My post to CW and what my husband taught me about how expressing sexual frustration wasn't sexy or flattering was talking about my current husband.

My ex-h and I had all kinds of different problems other than just sex (and our sitch didn't look like CW's). No, I could not stay married to him and should have left sooner actually. I can definitely say that my ex-h did love me but could not give me the kind of sex I wanted and needed though, if that is what you mean. I also loved him but could not stay in love because the sex wasn't there. His love didn't wane just because of lack of good sex, but it did wane for other completely different reasons.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

The reason I asked is because I am seeing a theme emerge on TAM. And that theme separates sexual and non sexual love.

It kind of goes like this: just because your spouse is doing their best to minimize your sexual relationship doesn't mean they don't love you. 





Faithful Wife said:


> I'm confused by the question. My post to CW and what my husband taught me about how expressing sexual frustration wasn't sexy or flattering was talking about my current husband.
> 
> My ex-h and I had all kinds of different problems other than just sex (and our sitch didn't look like CW's). No, I could not stay married to him and should have left sooner actually. I can definitely say that my ex-h did love me but could not give me the kind of sex I wanted and needed though, if that is what you mean. I also loved him but could not stay in love because the sex wasn't there. His love didn't wane just because of lack of good sex, but it did wane for other completely different reasons.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes, I would agree. People love and give love in different ways. Two LD people could be very happy not being sexual with each other but being affectionate and loving.

Whereas two HD people could have lots of great sex but not really care for or love each other.

Or a mismatched couple could love each other dearly and deeply but never get in sych sexually. One might care, the other might not.

Sex is not always the barometer of anything. Sometimes it is but definitely not always.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



doobie said:


> I don't doubt that my husband loves me, I just know that he doesn't love me enough to make the effort to have sex with me. He finally showed a little interest in me last night while we were out because a few other men were flirting with me and I flirted back, making it plain I was flattered and up for a bit of banter. My husband actually put his hand on my shoulders when he walked past me. I was hoping for a bit of attention when we got home, however,* he just went to bed and fell straight to sleep, leaving me to let the dog out and close up the house for the night. *
> 
> But still, I've woken up this morning in a much better mood than usual as I had a little male attention last night, I'm flattered and feel like a woman for a change.
> 
> I really envy the HD people here whose LD partners will at least make some effort.


Am I correct that the bolded is a clear pattern of trying to be asleep by the time you get there? 

So sorry you are dealing with this!



MEM11363 said:


> I guess a different way of saying this is: If the LD firmly believes that they have full control of frequency, AND feel no desire to find a happy compromise, then something is profoundly broken.


:iagree:

I wanted to add, the process of coming to a compromise may take lots of time and a lot of trying to be understanding from both sides. It won't just be a happy compromise overnight. There may be lots of crying and lots of frustration from both sides during the process. It takes time to understand each other when you come from such opposite viewpoints. 

Last night when I was talking with my husband sharing what I said here, I told him how much I like the everyday sex, I feel so much more evenkeeled. He just said yep and smiled really big . He knows it works out good for him too! :rofl:


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

The post below conflicts with what I believe. 

For example I've read the following phrase many, many times:
'I love my spouse to bits, I just don't like having sex with them' 

I want to actually meet these folks in real life. Because I believe that they are mostly lying. 

What they really mean is: I love the way my partner treats me / (emotionally/financially) supports me. 






Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, I would agree. People love and give love in different ways. Two LD people could be very happy not being sexual with each other but being affectionate and loving.
> 
> Whereas two HD people could have lots of great sex but not really care for or love each other.
> 
> Or a mismatched couple could love each other dearly and deeply but never get in sych sexually. One might care, the other might not.
> 
> Sex is not always the barometer of anything. Sometimes it is but definitely not always.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MEM~ Are you specifically talking about this phrase in the quote from FW *One might care, the other might not.*. I understand her viewpoint of it not being a personal concern BUT my husband and I believe each others concerns to be our concern. We are caretakers of each other, not just friends with benefits that have a legal partnership. 

MEM you wrote
_*What they really mean is: I love the way my partner treats me / (emotionally/financially) *_

I Agree! Love means you care because you love them even if it holds no personal benefit for you.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

double post


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The2,

Agreed. Love means making a good faith effort to meet your partners needs. 



The reason I have a strong view of this phrase: 
I love my partner to bits, I just don't feel like having sex very much.


Is that it is 100 percent self focused. Their partners wants / needs simply don't matter. 





the2ofus said:


> MEM~ Are you specifically talking about this phrase in the quote from FW *One might care, the other might not.*. I understand her viewpoint of it not being a personal concern BUT my husband and I believe each others concerns to be our concern. We are caretakers of each other, not just friends with benefits that have a financial partnership.
> 
> MEM you wrote
> _*What they really mean is: I love the way my partner treats me / (emotionally/financially) *_
> 
> I Agree! Love means you care because you love them even if it holds no personal benefit for you.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening faithful wife

I believe you, but it *feels* like that. Since as a HD person love, sex intimacy are all tightly tied together, I can't wrap my brain around the thinking of someone for whom they are different.







Faithful Wife said:


> But if your spouse does NOT step up to try to make you feel desired and sexy, it doesn't necessarily mean they "don't love you". That's the false thinking here.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> The2,
> 
> Agreed. Love means making a good faith effort to meet your partners needs.
> 
> The reason I have a strong view of this phrase:
> I love my partner to bits, I just don't feel like having sex very much.
> 
> Is that it is 100 percent self focused. Their partners wants / needs simply don't matter.


Not all love is sexual, MEM. Some romantic love simply isn't sexual (or isn't very sexual).

"If you loved me you would..." is not a fair statement because you're just saying "I wish to be loved in such and such way". We can't get inside other people and decide that if they did this or that it "means" they love you, but we only pick the things we WANTED them to do and nothing else. A person could do literally NOTHING for you or to you yet still love you madly and deeply.

Asexual, gray sexual and very LD people simply do not feel the same as you do. Why is that so hard to understand?

I think it is really sad that people are trying to say that CW's husband doesn't love her.

Please don't listen to them, CW. You know he does.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ultimately though CW, you may have to decide if love is enough for you, or do you need the great sex you seek also. That's the choice you are likely facing.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Not all love is sexual, MEM. Some romantic love simply isn't sexual (or isn't very sexual).
> 
> "If you loved me you would..." is not a fair statement because you're just saying "I wish to be loved in such and such way". We can't get inside other people and decide that if they did this or that it "means" they love you, but we only pick the things we WANTED them to do and nothing else. A person could do literally NOTHING for you or to you yet still love you madly and deeply.
> 
> *Asexual, gray sexual and very LD people simply do not feel the same as you do. Why is that so hard to understand?*
> 
> I think it is really sad that people are trying to say that CW's husband doesn't love her.
> 
> Please don't listen to them, CW. You know he does.


I was living right smack dab in the middle of it and it took me a loooong time to "get it". It took me a lot of reading, asking her questions, knowledge of her past, testing her drive and responses, and a lot more to finally wrap my head around it and frame it in a way I could see what was going on. She loves me without question, but sex just isn't important to her so it's not on her mind. 

For me it's remembering to keep up with people. I don't mean to be terrible at it, it's just a big empty spot in the way I am. I can go 6-12 months without remembering to keep up with even my closest family and even worse for extended family and friends. I love my family a ton, but I just stay engrossed in my day to day life so if I'm not seeing you in front of me I'm just not thinking about you. I've caught so much grief over the years for not calling/writing etc. I just can't help it, I literally have to put a calendar reminder to do things like that.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And even if you didn't put it on the calendar to remind yourself to contact people, it would not mean you don't love them.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But if intimac and sex is what one needs to feel love from their LD spouce, it doesn't really matter if the LD feels a deep and honest love, the HD spouce will not (maybe can not) feel that love from them. 

They're (the LD) transmitting on AM but we (HD) have an FM radio. It doesn't mean the stations aren't out there, but for all practical purposes they might as well not exist FOR ME.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Right. CW has to decide if the love she is getting and how she is getting it is enough for her, or if the pain of not having more passionate sex will ultimately cause her to leave. It is a choice many people agonize over and we don't all choose the same. 

Her H might step up, but most likely, he will never be able to in the amount she will want.

She's no where near making that decision yet though, and all the evidence isn't in.


----------



## Almostrecovered

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> She's no where near making that decision yet though, and all the evidence isn't in.


well yeah, it's only been 15 months and 2800 posts since the thread was started


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have hope for her! Her situation isn't nearly as bad as my own is in many ways yet just as bad in others. If nothing else, she is tackling this a LOT sooner on than many of us so that's a great thing.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Almostrecovered said:


> well yeah, it's only been 15 months and 2800 posts since the thread was started


This is her first boyfriend, first kiss, and first sex. They are both very young and religious. 

She's still years away from throwing in the towel. It takes most people much longer than 15 months to decide if they want a divorce.

It took me 15 years to decide.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

Here's how this looks from my vantage point. 

From one spouse to another:

If you love me you WILL:
- Tell me the truth, especially when I directly ask for it. You will do so, despite sometimes being afraid I won't like the truth. 
- Make a good faith effort to consider my feelings AND will factor those into your ACTIONS. 

You WILL NOT:
- Deceive, manipulate and/or gaslight me.
- Show callous disregard for my emotional well being while being very assertive about getting your own needs met.

--------







Faithful Wife said:


> Not all love is sexual, MEM. Some romantic love simply isn't sexual (or isn't very sexual).
> 
> "If you loved me you would..." is not a fair statement because you're just saying "I wish to be loved in such and such way". We can't get inside other people and decide that if they did this or that it "means" they love you, but we only pick the things we WANTED them to do and nothing else. A person could do literally NOTHING for you or to you yet still love you madly and deeply.
> 
> Asexual, gray sexual and very LD people simply do not feel the same as you do. Why is that so hard to understand?
> 
> I think it is really sad that people are trying to say that CW's husband doesn't love her.
> 
> Please don't listen to them, CW. You know he does.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's great MEM and you get to apply that in your own marriage and make boundary lines where you see fit for how YOU will feel loved and what you can accept.

You don't get to decide how it will be for anyone else, nor how they feel or what any of it means to anyone else. People are different.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is her first boyfriend, first kiss, and first sex. They are both very young and religious.
> 
> She's still years away from throwing in the towel. It takes most people much longer than 15 months to decide if they want a divorce.
> 
> It took me 15 years to decide.


Also, most of us start off looking at the wrong problem (or the problem wrong) and spend months grinding our wheels.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

4x4,

That analogy maps to the LD not initiating. 


But when the LD routinely rejects, the analogy would be like your family/friends calling and you screening their calls, not calling them back. 

There is a huge difference between not initiating and rejecting.





4x4 said:


> I was living right smack dab in the middle of it and it took me a loooong time to "get it". It took me a lot of reading, asking her questions, knowledge of her past, testing her drive and responses, and a lot more to finally wrap my head around it and frame it in a way I could see what was going on. She loves me without question, but sex just isn't important to her so it's not on her mind.
> 
> For me it's remembering to keep up with people. I don't mean to be terrible at it, it's just a big empty spot in the way I am. I can go 6-12 months without remembering to keep up with even my closest family and even worse for extended family and friends. I love my family a ton, but I just stay engrossed in my day to day life so if I'm not seeing you in front of me I'm just not thinking about you. I've caught so much grief over the years for not calling/writing etc. I just can't help it, I literally have to put a calendar reminder to do things like that.


----------



## RandomWife99

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I also find it really hard to wrap my head around someone being in love and not wanting to have sex or having sexual desire for that person. They might love you the way you love a family member or a very close friend, but how is that romantic love? The only thing that separates romantic love to me is the sexual desire (or at the very least physical affection that goes beyond what would be appropriate for family/friends). Of course having sexual desire on it's own doesn't mean you love someone, but if it's not there I do believe it means your feelings of love for them are less than they could be.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



RandomWife99 said:


> I also find it really hard to wrap my head around someone being in love and not wanting to have sex or having sexual desire for that person. They might love you the way you love a family member or a very close friend, but how is that romantic love? The only thing that separates romantic love *to me* is the sexual desire (or at the very least physical affection that goes beyond what would be appropriate for family/friends). Of course having sexual desire on it's own doesn't mean you love someone, but if it's not there *I do believe* it means your feelings of love for them are less than they could be.


No matter what we believe for ourselves, we don't get to make it be true for other people.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> 4x4,
> 
> That analogy maps to the LD not initiating.
> 
> 
> But when the LD routinely rejects, the analogy would be like your family/friends calling and you screening their calls, not calling them back.
> 
> There is a huge difference between not initiating and rejecting.


I will call screen sometimes and call backs can be spotty sometimes also. Since I'm so "LD" in this sense though, my family has long stopped "initiating" frequent contact with me. I do enjoy talking to them when I do though. I only feel bad about it like now when I stop and think about it, but 2 hours from now it'll be back the way it was, not a thing to me. Even though they don't contact me often either, I know they still love me anyway.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

I went out of my way to hit on the key themes in any marriage:
- Trust
- Respect
- Communication

So, I'm genuinely confused here. What part of my post wasn't generally applicable to a healthy marriage? 

My comments to CW have all been about the very unkind, dishonest and selfish things that her H has done regarding their sex life. 

I never said he was a bad person. I said he was behaving the way that folks under intense duress often due. 

And I never said he didn't love her. Though I do think he is putting his emotional well being ahead of hers. So I said that he loved himself more than he loved her. 

And I still believe that. 






Faithful Wife said:


> That's great MEM and you get to apply that in your own marriage and make boundary lines where you see fit for how YOU will feel loved and what you can accept.
> 
> You don't get to decide how it will be for anyone else, nor how they feel or what any of it means to anyone else. People are different.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't think it matters if it's true for other people. If that's how RandomWife sees it, that's how it is for her and no explanation from a LD partner is going to make her FEEL loved. It might make her understand intellectually that they do love her. I'm not sure that really helps too much though.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Richard,

I would take this a big step forward. 

I do NOT need to share your reaction to something in order for me to prioritize it. 

M2 is VERY sensitive to color. It's why the house is beautiful. 

Bad colors cause her intense distress. Don't bother me at all. 

That said, I FULLY support M2's process regarding changes to decor regardless of how long it takes because I ACCEPT that this is a big deal to HER. 

There is a long list of stuff like that. Things that matter to her, and don't INNATELY matter to me. 

Except, you would never know that, because M2 and I have mostly synchronized our priorities. 






richardsharpe said:


> Good evening faithful wife
> 
> I believe you, but it *feels* like that. Since as a HD person love, sex intimacy are all tightly tied together, I can't wrap my brain around the thinking of someone for whom they are different.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> FW,
> 
> I went out of my way to hit on the key themes in any marriage:
> - Trust
> - Respect
> - Communication
> 
> So, I'm genuinely confused here. *What part of my post wasn't generally applicable to a healthy marriage?*
> 
> My comments to CW have all been about the very unkind, dishonest and selfish things that her H has done regarding their sex life.
> 
> I never said he was a bad person. I said he was behaving the way that folks under intense duress often due.
> 
> And I never said he didn't love her. Though I do think he is putting his emotional well being ahead of hers. So I said that he loved himself more than he loved her.
> 
> And I still believe that.


I never said this was a healthy marriage. I'm saying he loves her and she loves him.


----------



## RandomWife99

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> No matter what we believe for ourselves, we don't get to make it be true for other people.


I'm not trying to do that, I legitimately just don't understand how people experience being in love without sexual feelings or desire for physical contact. I genuinely wonder how they know they're in love and distinguish that feeling from non-romantic relationships. I don't even consider myself HD but when i'm on love I want to be physically close to the other person, otherwise it's just companionship and mutual caring.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



RandomWife99 said:


> I'm not trying to do that, I legitimately just don't understand how people experience being in love without any sexual feelings or desire for physical contact. I genuinely wonder how they know they're in love and distinguish that feeling from non-romantic relationships.


As I have said many times on this thread, people would be enlightened a lot by reading information here:

The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org

And I'm not saying CW's H is asexual. I'm just saying that asexual and very LD people STILL FEEL ROMANTIC LOVE, no matter what HD people and more sexual people think.


----------



## RandomWife99

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> As I have said many times on this thread, people would be enlightened a lot by reading information here:
> 
> The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org
> 
> And I'm not saying CW's H is asexual. I'm just saying that asexual and very LD people STILL FEEL ROMANTIC LOVE, no matter what HD people and more sexual people think.


Had a browse through it now. I suppose it could be possible for some people to experience sex as purely physical act if they found some way to have the other aspects of romantic love. For my H and I it seems that his lack of desire for me affects all other areas of our relationship too (lack of an emotional connection, spending time together isn't a priority for him, he doesn't share personal thoughts or feelings with me, lack of non-sexual affection). when he does desire me, it seems everything else gets better too.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



RandomWife99 said:


> Had a browse through it now. I suppose it could be possible for some people to experience sex as purely physical act if they found some way to have the other aspects of romantic love. For my H and I it seems that his lack of desire for me affects all other areas of our relationship too (lack of an emotional connection, spending time together isn't a priority for him, he doesn't share personal thoughts or feelings with me, lack of non-sexual affection). when he does desire me, it seems everything else gets better too.


Having been divorced due to one sexless marriage already, I also know what does and what doesn't make me happy within marriage.

But I finally do understand also that we can't change other people. We can only set our own boundaries and enforce them. Sometimes this means walking away from someone who loves you but can't make you happy.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

My main theme with any HD spouse who comes on TAM is: Define and enforce your boundaries with regard to unhealthy behavior related to sex. 

- Don't tolerate a pattern of deceit, call it out
- Don't be gas lighted 
- Don't be teased 

I believe a lot of LD spouses play dumb. And it's cruel. 

And I am in a great position to comment on this because my LD spouse does NOT do this crap. I'm not the angry poster. 

I'm the guy who thinks - lucky me - because M2 brings honesty, kindness and empathy to the bedroom. 

In the spirit of helping CW, she needs to train C2 how to treat her. 

I'm just here to give her a reasonable baseline for boundaries that she can ignore at her peril. 





Faithful Wife said:


> I never said this was a healthy marriage. I'm saying he loves her and she loves him.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> FW,
> 
> My main theme with any HD spouse who comes on TAM is: Define and enforce your boundaries with regard to unhealthy behavior related to sex.
> 
> - Don't tolerate a pattern of deceit, call it out
> - Don't be gas lighted
> - Don't be teased
> 
> I believe a lot of LD spouses play dumb. And it's cruel.
> 
> *And I am in a great position to comment on this because my LD spouse does NOT do this crap. I'm not the angry poster.*
> 
> I'm the guy who thinks - lucky me - because M2 brings honesty, kindness and empathy to the bedroom.
> 
> In the spirit of helping CW, she needs to train C2 how to treat her.
> 
> I'm just here to give her a reasonable baseline for boundaries that she can ignore at her peril.


I actually think this puts you in a horrible position to comment on this situation, because CW's is not like yours, and your insistence that her H do certain things "because that is what is right and good for marriage" just makes her feel bad and doesn't actually help or change how her husband actually is. Which is not like your wife. People are different.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

The key is lack of empathy which regardless of sex or anything else will likely doom most any relationship.

Honesty and kindness won't do you any good whatsoever if you can't get any insight into your partner's point of view....

Unfortunately empathy is not something we encourage in our ME ME ME culture so...


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And if you (anyone) *honestly* have empathy, then you will also have empathy for those who don't have it. 

Mem...I hope you understand I did not mean to imply that you should not comment on CW's thread. CW knows you are supporting her and I know it, too. You and I are both Team CW. She gets that. It is good for her, I think, to hear ALL of our views around here. Even the "you must be fat and he must be gay" ones. She is getting the most sex education of her lifetime here at TAM, I'm assuming.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,

I'm seriously jealous of your H. Your passion is incredibly appealing. 

In addition to that, and it kills me to say this, I believe you are more open minded than I am. 

M2 has this theme with me. She says (and has said for 25 years): not everyone thinks like you 

So - deep sigh - you and M2 are both right. I am not as accepting of alternate viewpoints as I ought to be.

As for CW. Ah hell. I just feel sorry for her. 

And as for my final thought for the night:

CW,
About 2 years ago I developed tennis elbow. As a result of that, I stopped lifting weights. In consequence my T levels crashed.

I've always loved M2. All of her. And I've also had a strong physical thing for her - from the start. She's physically hot, a little bltchy, very witty/funny and off the charts good in bed. 

But ummmm, sometimes she is mean. At 30, 35, 40, or 45, flooded with testosterone, I could shrug off her cruelty pretty easy and fvck her senseless the next day. 

Maybe a month or so back - I mentioned something to M2. It was a thing had happened between us a while back. 

And she said something that was every bit as cruel as it was untrue. 

For the first time in our marriage I began to avoid sleeping with her..... I didn't refuse to have sex. But I minimized it. 

Finally last week - she asked me what was up. And I told her. 

She profusely apologized. Begged for mercy. 

------
So - why am I sharing this story?
------
The younger MEM, flooded with testosterone, would have got over this crap in 1-2 days. 

The lower T MEM, wasn't ever going to get over it, without M2's help.

Hormones are very powerful.......





Faithful Wife said:


> And if you (anyone) *honestly* have empathy, then you will also have empathy for those who don't have it.
> 
> Mem...I hope you understand I did not mean to imply that you should not comment on CW's thread. CW knows you are supporting her and I know it, too. You and I are both Team CW. She gets that. It is good for her, I think, to hear ALL of our views around here. Even the "you must be fat and he must be gay" ones. She is getting the most sex education of her lifetime here at TAM, I'm assuming.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> About 2 years ago I developed tennis elbow. As a result of that, I stopped lifting weights. In consequence my T levels crashed.
> 
> I've always loved M2. All of her. And I've also had a strong physical thing for her - from the start. She's physically hot, a little bltchy, very witty/funny and off the charts good in bed.
> 
> But ummmm, sometimes she is mean. At 30, 35, 40, or 45, flooded with testosterone, I could shrug off her cruelty pretty easy and fvck her senseless the next day.
> 
> Maybe a month or so back - I mentioned something to M2. It was a thing had happened between us a while back.
> 
> And she said something that was every bit as cruel as it was untrue.
> 
> For the first time in our marriage I began to avoid sleeping with her..... I didn't refuse to have sex. But I minimized it.
> 
> Finally last week - she asked me what was up. And I told her.
> 
> She profusely apologized. Begged for mercy.
> 
> ------
> So - why am I sharing this story?
> ------
> The younger MEM, flooded with testosterone, would have got over this crap in 1-2 days.
> 
> The lower T MEM, wasn't ever going to get over it, without M2's help.
> 
> Hormones are very powerful.......


Wonderful story. I've always been impressed with your comments. Is there a "MEM story" somewhere?


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> The2,
> 
> Agreed. Love means making a good faith effort to meet your partners needs.
> 
> 
> 
> The reason I have a strong view of this phrase:
> I love my partner to bits, I just don't feel like having sex very much.
> 
> 
> Is that it is 100 percent self focused. Their partners wants / needs simply don't matter.


Exactly. Who gives a sh!t if they love you (by some definition) but aren't willing to put any effort into making you happy?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Buddy,

The shortest version of the MEM story goes like this. 

MEM and M2 meet and fall in love. 

M2 has a - profoundly primitive - view of marriage. I was going to say - traditional - but that isn't accurate. Primitive is accurate. 

Her version of marriage is as stupefyingly simple as it is effective:
- Manage the house and the kids in a constructive and positive manner.
- Maintain an exceptional sense of humor.
- **** (svck) him senseless daily.
- Tell him what you expect. Hurt him badly when he doesn't provide it.

------
Let's keep this simple. M2's approach mostly brought out the best in me for 20+ years. 
------

As for the present. All I will say is this:
- I truly love M2, always have and always will.
- She hugely overplayed her hand. She inflicted a LOT of pain due to minor events that weren't managed to her satisfaction. This precipitated the apocalypse. 

We are still married. I have no desire to divorce. 

M2 now works full time. 

I am a part time 'stay at home dad'. 

Prior to the apocalypse, I earned 10 times what M2 makes as a nurse. 





Buddy400 said:


> Wonderful story. I've always been impressed with your comments. Is there a "MEM story" somewhere?


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

Well, you'd think a nurse would have a near infinite supply of empathy...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is her first boyfriend, first kiss, and first sex. They are both very young and religious.
> 
> She's still years away from throwing in the towel. It takes most people much longer than 15 months to decide if they want a divorce.
> 
> It took me 15 years to decide.


:iagree:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I love all the comments on this thread. Even the ones I don't always agree with. I enjoy seeing other people's opinions, and as Faithful Wife said. TAM has been a real eye opener for me. Please if I don't agree, don't think I don't value your input. It's all food for thought!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I do truly believe my husband loves me. I also truly believe his has no malice in his actions. Never has he done something to purposely hurt me. He may not always make a good effort to improve or change when something bothers me, but it is just laziness not hatefulness.

I don't think he wants to hurt me. He does feel bad. (Just not bad enough to really push to fix things.) 

But if I remind him, he does try harder. Today he told me to be ready and waiting when he gets home, so we can squeeze in some sex before our friends come over this evening. If it was up to him he would just say he don't have enough time, but he knows I want it. Which I appreciate. 

He has stopped complaining about going to the doctor. I think he might secretly be curious to see if something really is out of balance.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He seems to be slowly moving forward, making an effort. He loves you. A man who loves his wife but is just not as sexual. Stumbling along trying to find other ways that he feels comfortable with, to show his love. He likes sex, it's fun, but doesn't see how it's important. Then enter trouble keeping things up, then comes super avoidance. I find myself crying sometimes and rejoicing other times as I read your posts. 

I see so much of our story here, as I read things to my husband he says, oh I remember when that happened for us. Often he'll say how your husband might be feeling or what he needs to realize. Then at some point you come back with a talk you had and it reads like he said it would. There are many similarities but also many differences. Believe me it can get a lot better. It takes, love, respect, empathy, understanding from BOTH of you but the other side has a sweetness and closeness that I only could have imagined.

And I still maintain my position that if a partner won't even consider working on a compromise (this is over months and years, it can't be gauged day by day) that I would question who their true love is cause it doesn't seem to be their spouse. I get my definition of Love from I Corinthians 13 and it says love isn't selfish. But I will repeat I DON'T think this is Mr Curious, he's making a good faith effort, though he sometimes misses the mark and is sometimes tired and gets lazy, he is over all trying. My husband missed the mark so many times but it was his response later on that showed his love.

Why is the topic of her not being to the point of deciding to divorce yet always there? Why is it believed she will eventually get there? I don't think it has to be, I just don't.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> No matter what we believe for ourselves, we don't get to make it be true for other people.


:iagree: None of us get to decide for another.



Faithful Wife said:


> Having been divorced due to one sexless marriage already, I also know what does and what doesn't make me happy within marriage.


Me too, though I haven't been divorced. It takes time to learn what it really is that makes you happy. To learn what all these longings really mean, what the driving thing is behind it. But it sure is nice when you get there, for one thing you can tell your partner what it is you want instead of confusing them:scratchhead:. We have implemented a reset code for when we finally figure out what it is we want, basically a forget everything else I said cause I finally figured it out.



TheCuriousWife said:


> I do truly believe my husband loves me. I also truly believe his has no malice in his actions. Never has he done something to purposely hurt me. He may not always make a good effort to improve or change when something bothers me, but it is just laziness not hatefulness.
> 
> I don't think he wants to hurt me. He does feel bad. (Just not bad enough to really push to fix things.) ..........


But he has changed. If you look thru this thread you will see small but loving movements forward. He's trying but it's just so darn slooooooooooooow! :banghead:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Me too, though I haven't been divorced. It takes time to learn what it really is that makes you happy. To learn what all these longings really mean, what the driving thing is behind it. But it sure is nice when you get there, for one thing you can tell your partner what it is you want instead of confusing them:scratchhead:. We have implemented a reset code for when we finally figure out what it is we want, basically a forget everything else I said cause I finally figured it out.


THIS IS A GREAT IDEA! Often I will tell my husband things I like or don't like. He will then say, "but in the past you said this, or in the past you liked this..." Well things change, I learn! I will have to implement a reset code, next time he tells me this. 



> But he has changed. If you look thru this thread you will see small but loving movements forward. He's trying but it's just so darn slooooooooooooow! :banghead:


I agree. He has changed. So have I. We aren't the same as when we first got married. Slowly we are growing, hopefully towards the better.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, regarding change...

My H and I had a deep, though brief, conversation this morning. As you know, he recently joined TAM at my invitation and has spent the past 3 weeks devouring every comment I've ever made here at TAM. I've given him access to the private threads and will be asking for deleted threads to be restored so he can read those. (I deleted them for two reasons none of which had to do with keeping him out.)

Back to our conversation. He said reading my comments over the last 20 months has been like getting bullets holes in his armor; his shields of self protection and preservation that kept him from really HEARING me.

Yes, he had been making improvements over the last two years, but he had his armor in place and his improvements had been superficial, not deep, not focused because they weren't made as a result of true understanding. This was evidenced by his continual and consistent back sliding. The improvements were enough to keep me occasionally hopeful, which was enough to keep me hanging by a thread thinking any minute now this thread is going to morph into a rope and from there a ladder and from there we can climb to nirvana! 

I'm not suggesting you give your husband access to this thread, though that may be appropriate at some time in the future. I'm suggesting that you examine his improvements and try to discern if he has made them because he agrees he needs to improve and these improvements are because he wants to be a better man and husband, or because he superficially thinks you may have a point and doesn't want to give you ammunition to be mad at him. Is he learning not to leave a wet towel on the bed because you b!tch about it, or is he fully understanding AND equally concerned with what that wet towel will do to the bedding and the bed.

I think he just wants to have you stop b!tching. I think he has never concerned himself with the question of how can two people sustain love when only one person is willing and able to meet the needs of the other. THAT kind of relationship grooming is ultimately unsustainable. And no one wants to see you spending your youth on a man, in a marriage that is unsustainable.

I think what everyone wants is for you to do something drastic enough to snap him out of his armor so he can be real and vulnerable enough to hear you and feel you.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Drastic actions are truly the only things that work in these circumstances. But we are so loathe to employ them. Having been divorced once already, I now employ them earlier rather than later. This is something I wish I could impart on people, but they won't believe me when they are still young and don't understand the true cost of a looming divorce. So I have to just slowly introduce the idea. That's why I encourage CW to have MORE of those big talks, do it every week if necessary, and drive this thing into the light, not into the closet. But at the same time, she can only do what she's comfortable with, no matter who or what is guiding her.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

The consequences of a divorce after 15 months are rather small compared to the risk of the guy "taking his marbles and going home" in my view. Use some reverse empathy here and try to see what he would think about how you think.

So either do it or stick with him - but don't use it as a threat for improving things. If he can see that he can "live a normal life" by hanging out with his buddies and his family, and without the long term obligations of a marriage, why would he care?

How real would contrived intimacy look like? 

Apologies for playing devils advocate.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

John,
There is a quote I like:

You can judge a society by how well it treats it's weakest members....

At the individual level, M2 sets the gold standard for this. She treats babies and the elderly with kindness and compassion and love.

---------
Healthy adult males are in a whole separate category. They are expected to be ambitious, determined, resilient, adaptable, tough and low affect. 

The definition of a great partner is someone who brings out your best. M2 did that for a long time. 

But ultimately, she wasn't able to reconcile the differences between her ideal partner (for example, someone who converts to Catholicism) and her actual partner. 

And faced with her disappointment, resentment and cruelty, I quietly gave up. 





john117 said:


> Well, you'd think a nurse would have a near infinite supply of empathy...


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

You had me going there till the ambitious part


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Talking was about as "drastic" as we got!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well things have been going pretty well here.

Strangely enough, husband has seemed harder lately. I have no clue why. But we haven't had nearly as much trouble keeping him from going limp. (Could be that we are having a little less frequent sex.)

Yesterday we had great sex, and it was feeling so good that when we were both finished I told him that I just didn't want it to end yet. So he keep stimulating me, and I had a second O! :smthumbup:

I bragged on him a lot, and told him he was the man. Really hoping that it encourages him to try again sometime. 

He has kept his word and has been initiating more, and kind of giving me a heads up when to expect sex. He's also been putting it first before dinner or before going places, when we are still wide awake and it goes so much better.

His blood test is Saturday, and he is scared. I've been trying just to support him, and keep him calm.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No need for him to be to be scared. If his tests come in low, so what?

These days there are so many therapies available to treat low T, including totally natural non-prescription alternatives (like increasing exersize, natural supplements, et.).

Maybe he'll surprise and come in normal? But if not, he'll just join millions of other men who have some issues. No big deal.
Have him repeat to himself............No big deal.

And best of all; he has a loving wife!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No I think he is scared of the actual blood test. He has never gotten blood drawn, and has only had like 1 or 2 shots in his entire life. (Except baby shots)


----------



## doobie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious Wife - I can't see that there is any need for him to be scared of the blood test results. Your husband is already doing the most important thing in as much as he's taken on board that you're not happy with the situation and is doing everything he can to try to address that and improve things. Despite me telling my husband how unhappy our lack of a sex life makes me, he still does nothing at all to try to change things.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well things have been going pretty well here.
> 
> Strangely enough, husband has seemed harder lately. I have no clue why. But we haven't had nearly as much trouble keeping him from going limp. (Could be that we are having a little less frequent sex.)
> 
> Yesterday we had great sex, and it was feeling so good that when we were both finished I told him that I just didn't want it to end yet. So he keep stimulating me, and I had a second O! :smthumbup:
> 
> *Very nice. Shows he really wants to make you feel good.*
> 
> I bragged on him a lot, and told him he was the man. Really hoping that it encourages him to try again sometime.
> 
> He has kept his word and has been initiating more, and kind of giving me a heads up when to expect sex. He's also been putting it first before dinner or before going places, when we are still wide awake and it goes so much better.
> 
> *Well, I would say this is what you wanted. He has moved sex up the priority list. That has to feel good all day long.*
> 
> His blood test is Saturday, and he is scared. I've been trying just to support him, and keep him calm.


Should not be a problem. They are professionals and will draw the blood without a lot of pain. Just tell him to relax, and it will be over quickly.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well it looks like tonight will be the day for the "talk."

We were texting about the upcoming test, and he asked why he needed it. I mentioned the various reasons, including him going soft during sex. He didn't deny it. But he wants to know information about what is going on, and why it is important to get tested. He asked me to print up some information about it, and we will go over it tonight.

So far I have printed up the correct levels chart, the symptoms of low T, the Cardiovascular implications about what is going on. Anyone else have ideas on good articles, and/or what I should show him.

I am SO happy he has stop denying, and is now curious.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Things do sound good!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious: Read this article. If your husband is found to have low-t, he really needs to see a infertility specialist for treatment if you plan on having children. According to this article, his body will slow down it's natural production of testosterone if he is on TRT which will lower his sperm count making it difficult for you to get pregnant. The doctor referenced in the article does not recommend TRT for people wanting to conceive. I am attaching the link to the article from WEB MD. Low Testosterone and Infertility.

I'm not sending you this to discourage you, but it is something that needs to be discussed with his doctor IF his t levels are low. Hopefully, he can raise his levels by natural means should he need to. 

Hoping for the best for you guys!!


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I am SO happy he has stop denying, and is now curious.


TheCuriousHusband :smthumbup:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious: Read this article. If your husband is found to have low-t, he really needs to see a infertility specialist for treatment if you plan on having children. According to this article, his body will slow down it's natural production of testosterone if he is on TRT which will lower his sperm count making it difficult for you to get pregnant. The doctor referenced in the article does not recommend TRT for people wanting to conceive. I am attaching the link to the article from WEB MD. Low Testosterone and Infertility.
> 
> I'm not sending you this to discourage you, but it is something that needs to be discussed with his doctor IF his t levels are low. Hopefully, he can raise his levels by natural means should he need to.
> 
> Hoping for the best for you guys!!


Thanks for the reminder. I did look into that.

From what that article says and from what I understand is that the TRT only affects fertility when you are on it. We don't plan on having children for several more years. So that isn't a problem. If he does have low T, when the times comes to have children he can look for other treatment options. 

But I will make sure to ask the doctor about this.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
Don't let him put you in the weak position of trying to 'sell him' on doing this. 

Instead, let him read the stuff, and if need be, make HIM sell YOU on why you aren't important enough for him to take a momentary pin prick from a needle.

Make sense?




TheCuriousWife said:


> Well it looks like tonight will be the day for the "talk."
> 
> We were texting about the upcoming test, and he asked why he needed it. I mentioned the various reasons, including him going soft during sex. He didn't deny it. But he wants to know information about what is going on, and why it is important to get tested. He asked me to print up some information about it, and we will go over it tonight.
> 
> So far I have printed up the correct levels chart, the symptoms of low T, the Cardiovascular implications about what is going on. Anyone else have ideas on good articles, and/or what I should show him.
> 
> I am SO happy he has stop denying, and is now curious.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, Please take my survey up in the ladies lounge or do the online one.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks for the reminder. I did look into that.
> 
> From what that article says and from what I understand is that the TRT only affects fertility when you are on it. We don't plan on having children for several more years. So that isn't a problem. If he does have low T, when the times comes to have children he can look for other treatment options.
> 
> But I will make sure to ask the doctor about this.


There is also a second thing that can be taken to preserve fertility. I would not recommend starting TRT without protecting fertility.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well the talk was brief but adequate. 

I think he has finally came around and admits that he does have ED. He also agrees that it sounds like he has low T. 

At first he argued that he only has ED problems when "we have sex a lot." I told him, honey, having sex every few days shouldn't be causing such issues. I could understand if we were having sex a couple times a day, but a couple times a week should be physically manageable. I think he thought it was normal. 

He said he feels like less of a man, being confronted that he has sexual problems. When I asked him, wouldn't he rather know there is a problem and work on fixing it, he just replied ignorance is bliss. What you don't know can't hurt you.

Which confirms my thoughts that he has just been denying there was a problem all this time, because he doesn't want to deal with it.

I reciprocated that if he had cancer wouldn't he want to know so he could get help. You can't just pretend issues aren't there, and they will go away.

He still thinks I am pushing for all of this so I will get more sex. But at least he is on the band wagon now. He said he hopes he gets more facial hair out of the deal. lol. 

Just trying to encourage and support him. After his test we are going it get ice cream and go to a fall festival. 

Poor guy. His imaginary world is crumbling down around him.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The male ego is fragile as you know, but I think you're handling it real good.

Helps to know millions of men have some issues and not always for physical reasons. ****ey often has a mind of it's own.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> The male ego is fragile as you know, but I think you're handling it real good.
> 
> Helps to know millions of men have some issues and not always for physical reasons. ****ey often has a mind of it's own.


I know it is fragile. All my life I was told never to criticize a man's sexual ability, or their penis. I didn't speak up for two years and look where it got me.


No more tip toeing around. The truth hurts, but if I don't tell him, no one will. He will get over it. I am aware of his feelings, and I try to be gentle, but I'm putting my foot down. Things are going to improve. I will be there to support him, but he has got to stop ignoring and denying problems. 

Also, that whole lot about him being less of a man because he has ED is a bowl full of bologna.  I won't tolerate it. I'll be encouraging, but I'm not going to baby him. 

The New Curious Wife, gets crap done!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW said: "He still thinks I am pushing for all of this so I will get more sex."

Keep your self-honesty in check, because technically, you are. If you were LD, you probably wouldn't have questioned any of his behavior and then ended up reading about the effects of low T and insisted on the test.

But when he says things like this, you need to pull out your assertiveness hat, put it on, and say "That's right fella...because I'm a healthy young woman and I want frequent sex with my gorgeous husband", then either grab his butt or give him a deep kiss.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know it is fragile. All my life I was told never to criticize a man's sexual ability, or their penis. I didn't speak up for two years and look where it got me.
> 
> 
> No more tip toeing around. The truth hurts, but if I don't tell him, no one will. He will get over it. I am aware of his feelings, and I try to be gentle, but I'm putting my foot down. Things are going to improve. I will be there to support him, but he has got to stop ignoring and denying problems.
> 
> Also, that whole lot about him being less of a man because he has ED is a bowl full of bologna.  I won't tolerate it. I'll be encouraging, but I'm not going to baby him.
> 
> The New Curious Wife, gets crap done!


Double "Like!"


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> CW said: "He still thinks I am pushing for all of this so I will get more sex."
> 
> Keep your self-honesty in check, because technically, you are. If you were LD, you probably wouldn't have questioned any of his behavior and then ended up reading about the effects of low T and insisted on the test.
> 
> But when he says things like this, you need to pull out your assertiveness hat, put it on, and say "That's right fella...because I'm a healthy young woman and I want frequent sex with my gorgeous husband", then either grab his butt or give him a deep kiss.


Well more sex would be nice. But there is so much more to it. I just want to be desired. If he would just act like he thought I was sexy and couldn't keep his hands off me, I'd be ecstatic. Even if we only had sex once a week. If he made me feel desired in other ways, I'd be a happy camper. I just want him to have that lust, that most men seem to have.

I will keep that reply in mind though! Good idea.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know it is fragile. All my life I was told never to criticize a man's sexual ability, or their penis. I didn't speak up for two years and look where it got me.
> 
> 
> No more tip toeing around. The truth hurts, but if I don't tell him, no one will. He will get over it. I am aware of his feelings, and I try to be gentle, but I'm putting my foot down. Things are going to improve. I will be there to support him, but he has got to stop ignoring and denying problems.
> 
> Also, that whole lot about him being less of a man because he has ED is a bowl full of bologna.  I won't tolerate it. I'll be encouraging, but I'm not going to baby him.
> 
> The New Curious Wife, gets crap done!


:allhail:

Hear Me Roar!

::sniff sniff::: they grow up so fast...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> :allhail:
> 
> Hear Me Roar!
> 
> ::sniff sniff::: they grow up so fast...




I had good teachers! :smthumbup:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry you hit a dead end. I am dreading that too. I'm not sure what will happen next if he tests low end like your husband did, but still okay. Just have to cross the bridge when we come to it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well more sex would be nice. But there is so much more to it. I just want to be desired. *If he would just act like he thought I was sexy and couldn't keep his hands off me, I'd be ecstatic.* Even if we only had sex once a week. *If he made me feel desired in other ways, I'd be a happy camper. I just want him to have that lust, that most men seem to have.*
> 
> I will keep that reply in mind though! Good idea.


Yes, I totally understand this. I think most HD spouses would be so much happier with simply more lust coming toward them. This is something I get from my husband so good, and because of it I'm not sexually frustrated even if we don't have the frequency I'd like.

Be assertive in this area, too. Keep picturing what you want, how it would look, and find ways to express to him that's what you really need, more than just the sex. You will also have to lead the way there, as you know...so show him whatever examples you need to in order to explain what you really want.

You want to feel that he lusts for you.

He will have to get through to himself to find that and express it. But first you have to get it through to him.

This is going to be important for you to figure out how to tell him, because the chance are that this T test and follow up will not just magically make him act the way you are hoping. In the best case scenario (immediate T therapy and great results) then it just MIGHT get you what you are hoping for...but really you should be going forward as if you will have to get it without him having T replacement.

And that means basically showing him clearly what you need and then accepting nothing less....but knowing it will still take him time to get to that point.

Is there a movie showing the type of guy-toward-girl lust that you would like to feel? Keep an arsenal of movie scenes that look like what you want to experience to bring out and show him as you move along in conversations about getting your needs met. This will be a long process!! Even longer than you've already put in. But it isn't hopeless!


----------



## MEM2020

*Truly nothing more beautiful than*

Watching a young lioness hitting her stride


QUOTE=TheCuriousWife;10600570]Well the talk was brief but adequate. 

I think he has finally came around and admits that he does have ED. He also agrees that it sounds like he has low T. 

At first he argued that he only has ED problems when "we have sex a lot." I told him, honey, having sex every few days shouldn't be causing such issues. I could understand if we were having sex a couple times a day, but a couple times a week should be physically manageable. I think he thought it was normal. 

He said he feels like less of a man, being confronted that he has sexual problems. When I asked him, wouldn't he rather know there is a problem and work on fixing it, he just replied ignorance is bliss. What you don't know can't hurt you.

Which confirms my thoughts that he has just been denying there was a problem all this time, because he doesn't want to deal with it.

I reciprocated that if he had cancer wouldn't he want to know so he could get help. You can't just pretend issues aren't there, and they will go away.

He still thinks I am pushing for all of this so I will get more sex. But at least he is on the band wagon now. He said he hopes he gets more facial hair out of the deal. lol. 

Just trying to encourage and support him. After his test we are going it get ice cream and go to a fall festival. 

Poor guy. His imaginary world is crumbling down around him.[/QUOTE]


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

WOW! I am so impressed! Your progress continues! You are seriously on a roll :smthumbup: To have him admitting he probably has ED is HUGE for this guy. And to be able to now confirm that he was indeed stuck in denial is also major. You should be very proud of how far you have managed to come recently. YAY for you! (And YAY for him too!)

I mentioned before that I thought perhaps he was in denial out of sheer embarrassment and shame. Indeed, feeling like it makes him "less of a man". That's a big deal for a guy - sadly these types of issues are a very, very difficult thing for a man's self image and self worth. So keep on message with him that this is a medical situation like any other, and that _it certainly doesn't make him less of a man. _ He really needs your support and reassurance on this. Now, more than ever, make sure you make him feel that he is ALL MAN in your view.

I bet, deep down, despite how hard he has been resisting this for so long, he is now likely feeling relief that this is being addressed and dealt with.




TheCuriousWife said:


> Well the talk was brief but adequate.
> 
> I think he has finally came around and admits that he does have ED. He also agrees that it sounds like he has low T.
> 
> At first he argued that he only has ED problems when "we have sex a lot." I told him, honey, having sex every few days shouldn't be causing such issues. I could understand if we were having sex a couple times a day, but a couple times a week should be physically manageable. I think he thought it was normal.
> 
> He said he feels like less of a man, being confronted that he has sexual problems. When I asked him, wouldn't he rather know there is a problem and work on fixing it, he just replied ignorance is bliss. What you don't know can't hurt you.
> 
> Which confirms my thoughts that he has just been denying there was a problem all this time, because he doesn't want to deal with it.
> 
> I reciprocated that if he had cancer wouldn't he want to know so he could get help. You can't just pretend issues aren't there, and they will go away.
> 
> He still thinks I am pushing for all of this so I will get more sex. But at least he is on the band wagon now. He said he hopes he gets more facial hair out of the deal. lol.
> 
> Just trying to encourage and support him. After his test we are going it get ice cream and go to a fall festival.
> 
> Poor guy. His imaginary world is crumbling down around him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, I totally understand this. I think most HD spouses would be so much happier with simply more lust coming toward them. This is something I get from my husband so good, and because of it I'm not sexually frustrated even if we don't have the frequency I'd like.
> 
> Be assertive in this area, too. Keep picturing what you want, how it would look, and find ways to express to him that's what you really need, more than just the sex. You will also have to lead the way there, as you know...so show him whatever examples you need to in order to explain what you really want.
> 
> You want to feel that he lusts for you.
> 
> He will have to get through to himself to find that and express it. But first you have to get it through to him.
> 
> This is going to be important for you to figure out how to tell him, because the chance are that this T test and follow up will not just magically make him act the way you are hoping. In the best case scenario (immediate T therapy and great results) then it just MIGHT get you what you are hoping for...but really you should be going forward as if you will have to get it without him having T replacement.
> 
> And that means basically showing him clearly what you need and then accepting nothing less....but knowing it will still take him time to get to that point.
> 
> Is there a movie showing the type of guy-toward-girl lust that you would like to feel? Keep an arsenal of movie scenes that look like what you want to experience to bring out and show him as you move along in conversations about getting your needs met. This will be a long process!! Even longer than you've already put in. But it isn't hopeless!


:smthumbup:

Showing him what I would like, by pointing it out in movies is a great idea! He needs visual aid. Telling him gets no where.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> WOW! I am so impressed! Your progress continues! You are seriously on a roll :smthumbup: To have him admitting he probably has ED is HUGE for this guy. And to be able to now confirm that he was indeed stuck in denial is also major. You should be very proud of how far you have managed to come recently. YAY for you! (And YAY for him too!)
> 
> I mentioned before that I thought perhaps he was in denial out of sheer embarrassment and shame. Indeed, feeling like it makes him "less of a man". That's a big deal for a guy - sadly these types of issues are a very, very difficult thing for a man's self image and self worth. So keep on message with him that this is a medical situation like any other, and that _it certainly doesn't make him less of a man. _ He really needs your support and reassurance on this. Now, more than ever, make sure you make him feel that he is ALL MAN in your view.
> 
> I bet, deep down, despite how hard he has been resisting this for so long, he is now likely feeling relief that this is being addressed and dealt with.


Thanks. I think we have both made big steps. And I agree that I think deep down he wants it figured out too. He doesn't like going limp. Who would?

He couldn't get me to orgasm the other day, and he was very upset. He takes sexual "failures" very personally. Even though I reassured him that it was okay, and that I still enjoyed myself. It bothers him a lot. 

He fell asleep at 8pm again yesterday. He says it's just because he we watching tv... But I still say it's not normal. I watched tv and stayed awake just fine until after 11pm. 

His test is tomorrow. Wish us luck! I will be treating him very kindly, and hopefully taking his mind off it. Maybe a complimentary blow job is in order.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, Good Luck tomorrow - will be thinking about you and hubby!!


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Falling asleep around 8-9:00 is not so weird for older dudes like me (i think) cause I get up before 5:00 for work anyway.

But he's a young whipper snapper. 

What time does he get up in the a.m.?


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

CW even 11 pm is way to early... I'm twice your age and sleep 1 am to 7 am... 

Raising kids and grad school help with those bad habits (8 hour sleep ) quite well!

Good luck!


----------



## usmarriedguy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi Curious, 
Nice to see you are still hard at work on creating the perfect marriage. 

Lots of good reasons to get a blood test done every once in a while -especially as you get older. If you do not look at the needle going in and distract yourself it is much less noticeable and only takes a few minutes.

Good Luck


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He gets up at 6:30am for his work. I wake up when he does, but I don't get out of bed until 7am.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thinking of you today Curious!! Good luck!!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hope all goes well.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well yesterday was the test. He did really well, and didn't seem nervous.

It was the weirdest thing, after he was finished with the test, he was just chit chatting with the nurse and acting completely normal. Then all the sudden in mid sentence his eyes closed and he started falling. I was sitting across the room and managed to jump up and catch him.

It scared me a bit, but I'm glad I had quick enough reflexes to keep him from getting hurt. He twitched a bit (almost like a seizure), and we let him be for a minute or two then we gently shook him awake. The poor guy passed out. When he opened his eyes he didn't remember any of it, and thought he had just dozed off for a second or two.

He was pretty embarrassed, but otherwise fine.  He had never had lab work, and it wasn't nearly as bad as he thought. The nurse was excellent.

Waiting not so patiently for the results.

He has been great about sex lately. He has been initiating every other day, in advance, and also being more handsy. He has also willingly given me oral, and been especially attentive to my wants. I told him I noticed, and that I like it. He just smiled and winked.

:smthumbup:

Life is good right now.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

CW, 

The exact same thing happened with my younger daughter about 5 years ago. It's one of those needle-phobia things. She had to fast as she was doing a full panel blood test and was hungry so along with the needle you get the idea.

Glad to hear everything went well... How cute was the nurse anyway


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He had to fast also. So I think that is one of the main causes.


----------



## NewHubs

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He has also willingly given me oral



:smthumbup:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



NewHubs said:


> :smthumbup:


Still not to completion, but I'll take what I can get.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm starting to get worried. I still haven't received the lab results, and the appointment is tomorrow. I was so hoping to be able to see them and process BEFORE we met with the doctor.

Keep us in your thoughts. I have no idea how this is going to go down, and I'm worried about having to explain everything to the doctor because I doubt husband is going to talk or back me up. If anything I think he will deny.

Just can't wait for this to be over, and behind us. It will be such a relief to know one way or the other.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The doc should be able to see thru the denying. You have no reason to lie and the doc should undrstand that, I'm sure he is used to seeing some level of denial and knows how to work thru it.

As far as getting your test back did you get the levels for free T as well as total, cause the test for free T takes longer. You can call the lab today and see if they have the total number ready even if all your labs aren't ready yet.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> The doc should be able to see thru the denying. You have no reason to lie and the doc should undrstand that, I'm sure he is used to seeing some level of denial and knows how to work thru it.
> 
> As far as getting your test back did you get the levels for free T as well as total, cause the test for free T takes longer. You can call the lab today and see if they have the total number ready even if all your labs aren't ready yet.


Yes I got free and total. 

I'll look into calling the lab. But everything is automated, and I already requested the results, it says it could take up to 5 days, but they told me at the office 2 days. Gr.

ETA: I sent them a support email, but just found a number to call. If I don't get a work back on the email after lunch, I will call. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well now I'm just mad.

I called them, and they refused to talk to me because I'm not the patient. Even though I had his information and SSN.

I asked about receiving results, and they said if I wanted to receive a partial report, or one before the doctor then I had to fill out a form, and it would take up to 30 days to process. Uh. I just wanted to smack somebody. 

So it looks like me won't be getting the numbers until at the doctor, I hope they even have them then.


----------



## Coldie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Crazy, I just go to the doctor's office in person and request a copy of my results for my own records. I've never had any issues and I always want the results prior to seeing my doctor. Control freak thing.

They usually pull the results from records, copy on a scanner, and give me a copy no problems at all. However, this is just 6 month blood work check ups.


----------



## Tasorundo

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Unless he signed a release saying you can have access to his information, they cannot legally tell you.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Unfortunately, only the patient can get the results unless someone else was designated on the contact information form. He could try calling but if you have an appointment to get the results they may not give them to him beforehand.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yup, even getting the info of "when is his next appointment on the calendar" is restricted information. My W just complained that the Dr. office called, and would not tell her why or anything else for that matter.

I would have been surprised if they told you anything about the results or even when the results would be ready. 

If you look at my post - you will see that I got into a lot of trouble with just the information "your prescription is ready." That is why these offices are so tight lipped.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

I can't even schedule medical or dental stuff for my girls as they're over 18. HIPPA and all that.

Keep in mind that numbers by themselves are not as important as the doctor to put them into perspective. So, be patient for now


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The numbers, within the scale or normalcy, don't mean a damn thing anyway. What matters is what results you want and you consider normal.

1. Does your husband consider it normal FOR him to loose his erection through out sex? At his age, and given his lack of prior experience, he may not know what is normal. So then you go with what results you want.

2. How difficult should it be for him to maintain his erection during sex? What other things are happening, or not happening that might effect his erection?

These are extremely difficult questions to ask and answer. And if you have to ask them the doctor is going to peg you as an over bearing wife and slant his opinion based on that judgement. Therefore your husband MUST be the one to vigorously pursue this.

BTDT...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Gah! Panic has set in.

Called the doctor's office. They haven't received the results either yet, and his appointment is at 8:30am tomorrow.

It's too late to cancel, so I guess we will still have to go in and twiddle our thumbs, and talk about nothing since they won't know anything without the tests. Will still have to pay for visit. 

Now we will have to take ANOTHER day off work, and reschedule and pay for ANOTHER appointment. Which will be who knows when.

Just so angry.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Okay. Whew. Simmering down. The doctor called and managed to get some of the results... Everything but the T test. *bangs head*

Well we are still going to the appointment and they will go over low T and plan everything out, as if the results came back low. Figure out what steps we want to take, etc. Then in a couple days when the results are in they will call us back, and we will give them the green light to take action, if we need to.

From what I understand we won't have to go back again before we could start treatment. They will go over it tomorrow and get everything lined up, just in case. Then if the results do in fact come back low, they can just call the pharmacy.

(I know that if we go on treatment then there will be followups, more lab work, etc.) But it would be nice not to have to go to the doctors twice just to discuss things before anything can get started. Which is what I was afraid of.

That's all I got for now. Will report back ASAP. Pray for us!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> These are extremely difficult questions to ask and answer. And if you have to ask them the doctor is going to peg you as an over bearing wife and slant his opinion based on that judgement. Therefore your husband MUST be the one to vigorously pursue this.
> 
> BTDT...


She could get a doc like ours who likes the wife's input. If Mr Curious won't talk I would take the chance if I were her, otherwise it is certain nothing will happen. If you come across as a sweet, gentle wife who is concerned it will come across much different and if the doc is just a jerk there is no way to win.

As for Arginine this works pretty good, powder form, makes a lemonade 
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swa...-powder-lemon-flavored-350-grams-12-3-oz-pwdr
Honey want some lemonade . It really does help


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Also our doc talked with us about all the options before we got back the numbers. The test was a confirmation of his suspicions from the symptoms. It gave us time to discuss our options with risks and benefits before dh had to make a decision.


----------



## badcompany

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I hope you two find the root of the problem and are able to plow happily off into the sunset!


----------



## GrannyMildew

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hello all... As a former healthcare worker for all of my adult life, I can say with all honesty, that the single most destructive intervention that has destroyed the relationship between patients, families and doctors, has been HIPPA. Awful!

As a spouse who has LITERALLY had to be the advocate for my spouse in life AND through 2 deaths, with doctors, I have some unsolicited advice. Especially when dealing with a doctor you've never seen before, and who does not KNOW you as a couple is to focus MAINLY on the MEDICAL problems that can arise as a factor with Low T, rather than the SEXUAL. I'm talking about heart health, blood pressure problems, Metabolic Syndrome, Diabetes, overwhelming fatigue, etc. Yes, of course mention ED, and other concerns but do not dwell on this part, as with the popular rise of "Low T" problems in men, for many doctors a spouse that focuses on SEXUAL issues is kind of like a drug seeker in their eyes. 

I've seen and heard too many doctors(Urologists especially of all specialties) dismiss the wife and cut them off saying things like" You are not the patient. I am sure your husband can speak for himself". Some CAN be very arrogant if you are not careful about HOW it is discussed.

Just thought I'd give you some unsolicited, personal AND professional advice. I wish you both well.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Very good advice Granny Mildew. The concern for him not yourself has to be shown. It even makes a huge difference when dealing with pediatricians, they seem to listen to you when they can see you care.

And yes the medical issues of low T are reason enough for a hermit to treat it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Okay. Whew. Simmering down. The doctor called and managed to get some of the results... Everything but the T test. *bangs head*
> 
> Well we are still going to the appointment and they will go over low T and plan everything out, as if the results came back low. Figure out what steps we want to take, etc. Then in a couple days when the results are in they will call us back, and we will give them the green light to take action, if we need to.
> 
> From what I understand we won't have to go back again before we could start treatment. They will go over it tomorrow and get everything lined up, just in case. Then if the results do in fact come back low, they can just call the pharmacy.
> 
> (I know that if we go on treatment then there will be followups, more lab work, etc.) But it would be nice not to have to go to the doctors twice just to discuss things before anything can get started. Which is what I was afraid of.
> 
> That's all I got for now. Will report back ASAP. Pray for us!


From what I've seen getting a man who is feeling good now, to talk about his low T isssue is not near as hard. If this is indeed the problem and he gets treated and they bring him up to a good, healthy level, appointments won't be so difficult.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> From what I understand we won't have to go back again *before we could start treatment.* They will go over it tomorrow and get everything lined up, just in case. Then if the results do in fact come back low, they can just call the pharmacy.
> 
> (I know that if we go on treatment then there will be followups, more lab work, etc.) But it would be nice not to have to go to the doctors twice just to discuss things *before anything can get started*. Which is what I was afraid of.


CW just a note of caution...these words sound like you are thinking that T therapy is a foregone conclusion.

Has your H actually agreed to do T therapy if his doc recommends it?

From previous things you have said, it doesn't sound like he will just be happily eager to do that, even if the tests are low. :scratchhead:


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have to agree with FW. You will have to remember it is his body and he has the final choice of what to do.

Please refrain from being controlling - it only makes matters worse.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry I didn't mean to come off as controlling. Yes husband has already said he would want treatment if it is low. I wasn't saying I would make him, we had already just decided he would, so I worded it without thinking. I would not or could not make him do anything he didn't want to do.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yesterday was crazy!

On the way to the appointment one of our tires exploded. Luckily I was able to call doctor/friend/neighbor who was on her way to work, and she picked us up and gave us a ride. 

The new doctor was great. She was very friendly and nice. She also seemed very knowledgeable. I let husband do most of the talking, and I just asked questions afterwards. He told her he has trouble getting in the mood, and staying hard. 

All his other tests came back great. Still haven't received results back from low T. Hopefully today. She seemed pretty convinced that is what it is though. So we went over it.

She said if it is really low she will refer us to a specialist, since he is so young.

If he comes back normal she said we may want to keep digging and see if there is something else that could be causing the issues. But we will have to wait and decide after we see the results.

All in all it went really great, and it's nice to see husband opening up a little. I think he wants answers too. He said he hopes it is low T.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I know you probably plan to do this already, but if he does have to have TRT, discuss with your doctor that you want to eventually start a family and how TRT would affect that. 

Glad you and Mr. Curious liked the doctor. Keeping you in thoughts and prayers!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, I know you probably plan to do this already, but if he does have to have TRT, discuss with your doctor that you want to eventually start a family and how TRT would affect that.
> 
> Glad you and Mr. Curious liked the doctor. Keeping you in thoughts and prayers!!


We already discussed that, thanks. 

She said if he is just a little low, small doses would be okay. If he needs larger doses then he should probably go on HCG, hence the reason she would refer us to a specialist if he is really low.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

HCG will also keep the balls from shriveling up!

Glad things went well. And that is how my husband responded too, he came to a point where he really hoped it was low T.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I just got the results back. It was exactly as I feared. 430

Too low to be good but high enough to be "normal." According to the by age charts, he is normal for a 75-85 year old man.

Husband was really upset. He said, "You mean this is the best I'm going to feel?"  He wanted me to call the doctor and beg to let him try low dosage treatment anyway. I think he was finally glad to find a culprit with a chance to get better. 

Well the office called me but I didn't get to talk to a doctor. Just the receptionist who said, "He tested great. No need for treatment. We recommend following up with a urologist to find out what is causing the problems." Then hung up. 

Should I just let this go? Should I call a urologist? Isn't an endocrinologist better suited for hormones? 

Sigh. I'm disappointed, but I think husband is even more upset. I didn't realize how much he was really hoping it was low T.

What do you guys think?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I would get him an appointment with an endocrinologist. A second opinion never hurts.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think he has to be referred by the primary care doctor to get covered by insurance. And they said to go to a urologist, so how would I get them to recommend a endocrinologist?

I feel like they are only wanting to get the ED taken care of, and that isn't even the main problem. They said something about possibly a blocked duct... But that wouldn't decrease his libido, or cause him to not grow facial hair. I still think his testosterone just needs to go up.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just ask her for a referal. Tell her you'd like to talk to an endo becuase the numbers are normal..... for a man 50 years older!! I don't know why she wouldn't go for it. But there's probably some BS reason.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Okay I called the insurance and they told me I didn't need a referral. So I'll talk to husband, but we will probably be going to an endo. They would help more with the other aspects more so than a urologist right? I imagine a urologist would only know about the ed problems, and not the other symptoms. We can live with the ED, it's the least of our worries.

Or am I just beating a dead horse? Is 430 fine?


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

There are some expert guru types on this board who know lots about testosterone levels. I've seen their posts and they say that the standard charts are bunk.

Besides, if you say that he has normal for an older dude, then he's NOT normal for a 20/30 yo dude.

Anyone know the forum names of these gurus? They can probably advise better.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

See an endocrinologist because testosterone alone is only an indicator. There are other hormones that are also in play. What are the other biological men in his family like? 

Your husband's statement "So this is the best I will feel" is very telling. 

As I've said before, from years of having my thyroid levels checked, it's important to find a doctor that really does understand that lab levels and normal ranges mean a HUGE variation from person to person and finding the "feeling normal" range is different for everyone. Which is why there is a range to begin with.

Keep asking and keep making appointments.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'd imagine it's a bit like thyroid levels. 430 might be great for one person but horrible for another. Great as in how someone would feel at that level...being horny as a three peckered tom cat, energy levels, etc...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> See an endocrinologist because testosterone alone is only an indicator. There are other hormones that are also in play. What are the other biological men in his family like?
> 
> Your husband's statement "So this is the best I will feel" is very telling.
> 
> As I've said before, from years of having my thyroid levels checked, it's important to find a doctor that really does understand that lab levels and normal ranges mean a HUGE variation from person to person and finding the "feeling normal" range is different for everyone. Which is why there is a range to begin with.
> 
> Keep asking and keep making appointments.



Both his dad and brother have a full on thick beard. My husband can not grow ANY hair on his face except right at his chin. I don't know about the other symptoms.

His statement made me feel sad for him.  I think now that I opened up his shell, he realized that he doesn't feel great, and he really wanted to get better. I feel like I got his hopes up, just to crush them.

If it's not low testosterone, I still think something has got to be off. Maybe his libido is normal for him. But the other things are not normal for anyone. We shouldn't have trouble keeping him erect, and he should be having morning erections. 

I will talk with him tonight and see what he wants to do. I'll follow his lead.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Poor guy.

He said, "oh great. So I'm healthy as a 85 year old man...."

He is also upset that he won't ever be getting any facial hair. 

I hope I didn't do more damage than good, by seeking out medical attention. At least I guess, I got him to admit and see the issues.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> What do you guys think?


Sorry, the medical stuff is out of my league. But looking at the sum of your posts the last few weeks I think TheCuriousHusband showing more awareness and concern about the issue lately is the best news. Keep working with that!


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I hope I didn't do more damage than good, by seeking out medical attention.


Curious, don't ever think that! There's something going on here medically and it needs to be addressed. You know it and he knows it. 

It may take time to figure out, but these things don't get solved overnight. My wife had some issues way back when and it took two years to get a diagnosis!

Stick it out kiddo!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Poor guy.
> 
> He said, "oh great. So I'm healthy as a 85 year old man...."
> 
> *He is also upset that he won't ever be getting any facial hair.*
> 
> I hope I didn't do more damage than good, by seeking out medical attention. At least I guess, I got him to admit and see the issues.


This could be totally genetic....do the males in his family have a lot while he has none? Or do they have very little like he does?


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think it is macheavelli who knows a lot about testosterone levels and man stuff. 

maybe he can chime in


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think Mach got banned. FW--I think I remember reading his father and brother both have thick beards.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This could be totally genetic....do the males in his family have a lot while he has none? Or do they have very little like he does?


Every other male in his family has a plethora of facial hair. He is the only one with none.

ETA: I know it sounds silly to put so much emphasis on hair, but for some reason it really bothers him and is important to him.

Personally I strongly dislike facial hair. So I am happy he can't grow it.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Then an endocrinologist is the next step. They checked his T but probably didn't check his estrogen levels. Estrogen kind of cancels out the T, which is why men should have much lower levels of estrogen and much higher levels of testosterone and when women hit perimenopause and our estrogen levels get lower, we sometimes experience a huge spike in libido because the testosterone levels are not being balanced by the estrogen.

But it could be something else entirely! And it could all lead to nothing. So very annoying! 

Just keep telling him that eventually this puzzle will get solved and he should keep checking with specialists until it is. Because bottom line, it is not normal for a 20 something man to not have morning erections.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Every other male in his family has a plethora of facial hair. He is the only one with none.
> 
> ETA: I know it sounds silly to put so much emphasis on hair, but for some reason it really bothers him and is important to him.
> 
> Personally I strongly dislike facial hair. So I am happy he can't grow it.


As a follicly challenged man, I understand. I've been cultivating my facial hair for years, just to get it to a point where it's not patchy. I'll never have connectors between my beard and mustache, which bums me out considerable. I'll never have that Robert Downey Jr goatee. It sucks.





Maybe I need MY testosterone checked?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> As a follicly challenged man, I understand. I've been cultivating my facial hair for years, just to get it to a point where it's not patchy. I'll never have connectors between my beard and mustache, which bums me out considerable. I'll never have that Robert Downey Jr goatee. It sucks.
> 
> 
> Maybe I need MY testosterone checked?


:lol:

Haha maybe


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't allow yourself to get discouraged at this initial stage. General physicians are no where near knowledgeable enough about hormonal/endocrine-related issues and far too often dismiss concerns prematurely. They are known for being quick to declare that everything is normal when in fact further investigation is needed to reach that conclusion. You might recall that a few of us here, based on our own unfortunate experiences, predicted that this might happen. Hopefully you'll get a good endo who will immediately recognize that your husband's T levels are way too low for a man of his age, despite falling within the lab's normal range. Lab results always need to be interpreted - something many docs fail to do . 

BUT, not all endocrinologists are created equal. You need to recognize that this could be a bit of a process and you are only at the very beginning stages of it. Anything endocrine has the potential to get quite complicated and can turn out to be quite the puzzle that will take some time in unraveling. Brace yourself for that, but do not give up. Its frustrating for sure, but so many of us have been through it, you can get through it too. You both need to prepare to be persistent, determined, and tough until you get answers that actually make sense. You will need to be your own advocate (or in this case, you and you're husband are going to need to be his advocates). I repeat, do not stop until you finally have answers that make sense. Doctors (and this includes endos) are extremely busy. Unless you fall into the standard text book case, they often rug-sweep you when there isn't an immediately obvious answer. This is why there is almost an epidemic of people suffering with undiagnosed or misdiagnosed endocrine conditions that are not being treated. 

I myself went through this for years with endocrine related issues that the docs couldn't figure out, as have many others. In my case, despite all kinds of crazy symptoms that indicated thyroid issues, adrenal issues, and more, when the labs didn't support it, they wanted to send me on my way, regardless of how ill I was. I did not relent. I did enormous amounts of my own research (thank God for the internet) - I challenged the docs/ endos and brought in solid info from recognized sources. I told them which tests I wanted, and gave them possible theories to go on when they were too busy to come up with their own ideas. After a decade of being so ill I was literally bedridden for extended periods of time, and being told by endo after endo "Everything came back normal, there is nothing wrong with you", it was eventually discovered that I had a_ tumor on the pituitary part of the brain_. There WAS INDEED something wrong, everything was NOT normal, there WAS an endocrine basis for my symptoms, and if I had not stood my ground and challenged them, over and over and over, this would never have been discovered. I don't know where I'd be now, but I can say for certain I wouldn't be well enough to be writing this. So, long story short - too early to be discouraged at this point. Wait to see what an endo says. If its still not making sense and your gut is telling you there is more to it, get a 2nd opinion from another endo. And go armed with your own data - take the chart with you. Challenge them intelligently. They probably wont like it. But you need to do it. Nobody cares about your husbands health, well being and future like you do, so you need to advocate. In my case, my symptoms initially presented as relatively 'minor' things, as someone might describe your husbands issues, in the grand scheme of things. But such 'minor' issues should not be left alone or ignored. Because when there is an endocrine basis (and given that his T is normal for an 80 yr old its safe to say there is!), left unattended, symptoms will evolve and progress over time to potentially debilitating stages. Not saying this to worry you, but to prepare you to be persistent. Hopefully the endo you go to will be smart enough not to dismiss his lab results, and none of this will be an issue. But take the chart with you and be prepared to challenge what you are being told if necessary. The fact that you have the chart to refer to with the endo is greatly to your advantage. If the endo wants to dismiss your husband as normal, you have a solid basis for continuing the discussion and challenging that finding. Most importantly, stay positive! Don't let this bring you down.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If this isn't a warning about advocating for your own health care I don't know what is!





justfabulous said:


> Don't allow yourself to get discouraged at this initial stage. General physicians are no where near knowledgable enough about hormonal/endocrine-related issues and far too often dismiss concerns prematurely. They are known for being quick to declare that everything is normal when in fact further investigation is needed to reach that conclusion. You might recall that a few of us here, based on our own unfortunate experiences, predicted that this might happen. Hopefully you'll get a good endo who will immediately recognize that your husband's T levels are way too low for a man of his age, despite falling within the lab's normal range. Lab results always need to be interpreted - something many docs fail to do .
> 
> BUT, not all endocrinologists are created equal. You need to recognize that this could be a bit of a process and you are only at the very beginning stages of it. Anything endocrine has the potential to get quite complicated and can turn out to be quite the puzzle that will take some time in unraveling. Brace yourself for that, but do not give up. Its frustrating for sure, but so many of us have been through it, you can get through it too. You both need to prepare to be persistent, determined, and tough until you get answers that actually make sense. You will need to be your own advocate (or in this case, you and you're husband are going to need to be his advocates). I repeat, do not stop until you finally have answers that make sense. Doctors (and this includes endos) are extremely busy. Unless you fall into the standard text book case, they often rug-sweep you when there isn't an immediately obvious answer. This is why there is almost an epidemic of people suffering with undiagnosed or misdiagnosed endocrine conditions that are not being treated.
> 
> I myself went through this for years with endocrine related issues that the docs couldn't figure out, as have many others. In my case, despite all kinds of crazy symptoms that indicated thyroid issues, adrenal issues, and more, when the labs didn't support it, they wanted to send me on my way, regardless of how ill I was. I did not relent. I did enormous amounts of my own research (thank God for the internet) - I challenged the docs/ endos and brought in solid info from recognized sources. I told them which tests I wanted, and gave them possible theories to go on when they were too busy to come up with their own ideas. After a decade of being so ill I was literally bedridden at times, and being told by endo after endo "Everything came back normal, there is nothing wrong with you", it was eventually discovered that I had a_ tumor on the pituitary part of the brain_. There WAS INDEED something wrong, everything was NOT normal, there WAS an endocrine basis for my symptoms, and if I had not stood my ground and challenged them, over and over and over, this would never have been discovered. I dont know where I'd be now, but I can say for certain I wouldn't be well enough to be writing this. So, long story short - too early to be discouraged at this point. Wait to see what an endo says. If its still not making sense and your gut is telling you there is more to it, get a 2nd opinion from another endo. And go armed with your own data - take the chart with you. Challenge them intelligently. They probably wont like it. But you need to do it. Nobody cares about your husbands health, well being and future like you do, so you need to advocate. In my case, my symptoms initially presented as relatively 'minor' things, as someone might describe your husbands issues, in the grand scheme of things. But such 'minor' issues should not be left alone or ignored. Because when there is an endocrine basis (and given that his T is normal for an 80 yr old its safe to say there is!), left unattended, symptoms will evolve and progress to potentially debilitating stages. Not saying this to worry you, but to prepare you to be persistent. Hopefully the endo you go to will be smart enough not to dismiss his lab results, and none of this will be an issue. But take the chart with you and be prepared to challenge what you are being told if necessary. The fact that you have the chart is greatly to your advantage. If the endo wants to dismiss your husband as normal, you have a solid basis for continuing the discussion and challenging that finding. Most importantly, stay positive! Don't let this bring you down.


----------



## GrannyMildew

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Absolutely Anon, I wholeheartedly agree with you 150% on this. If You aren't the advocate for yourself AND your spouse in marriage, WHO will be?


Docs these days are under tremendous pressure from ALL sides and very often the daily "life" of the patient AND their spouse gets lost in the pile. 

YOU have to be the one who steps forward and states" Yes Doc- you are right. It IS within normal limits BUT it is affecting our marriage, his or her esteem and the things we are missing out on as a result. Please look at him/ her as more than a number. RESPECTFULLY. 

Sometimes it takes that moment to bring a doc back to " reality " that people aren't just A NUMBER! Remind them WHAT it is affecting! 

If they are worth their salt, they WILL hear you.

I wish you both well.

And Mr. Curious? You are NOT alone nor are you like an old man. Your hormones or chemicals somewhere just need a bit of tweaking! I know it's difficult, but be patient a bit longer. You WILL get this sorted out.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I wonder if being excited about having an answer raised his T level, it can! . Anything that looks like winning will raise your numbers. Also numbers will vary from day to day and a decent endo should know this, if the end wants to go off one days number I would question it. I know of a guy who didn't feel real great until he hit around 800. They are not hard fast numbers.

Keep looking for answers. The great news is you are working together not against each other. Hang in there.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

While you wait here are some ideas of things you might be able to try to help him feel better.

You can also try this plan while you work on finding more answers. 
Testosterone Week: The Declining Virility of Men and the Importance of T | The Art of Manliness

Zinc is a huge need for healthy T levels, as well as magnesium. My husband has opted to go the natural route and is largely doing a plan like this with dhea added. He brought his numbers from 283 up to 429 in a few months and seems to be doing even better we just haven't had time to get him to the lab again. 

Here is another interesting article by Mike Mahler
Testosterone is great but is Dihydrotestosterone is the king of all male androgens? | Mahler's Aggressive Strength

My husband finds he feels great on the ginsengs that are mentioned in this article and he does have hair regrowing on his legs now and his beard does not have sparse spots. 

He also seems to feel better when we eat cabbage or broccoli and I read somewhere that they are great for helping clear harmful estrogens from the body. Red meat and eggs also seem to help.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

When speaking with the doctors I believe it is important to describe your H as having 3 distinct but possibly related medical conditions:
1. Generally low energy levels / fatigue 
2. Very low sex drive for his age 
3. ED

It is possible his low T levels are causing all 3. 

It is important to find a doctor who CARES about quality of life issues. 

That said if I were in your shoes, while I would mention all three to the doctor, I would initially focus MOST of my effort on (1). And my theme would be: YOU will feel better/be happier if you have more energy. Maybe you could TRY testosterone therapy for a few months and see how you feel. 

If your H directly asks you how much of this is about his sex drive, you can/should be honest. But keep it very short: Yes it would be nice if our sex drives were more similar. 

From your posts, I'd have to say that your tone, is pitch perfect. 

Hormone levels are:
- Complex
- Interrelated 
- Highly individualized 

That said, I remember reading an article a long time ago about this older man who was in a 3 month clinical trial for testosterone therapy. He was Mid 70's. 

I just recall how intensely he described the experience. That he literally felt like he was drinking from the fountain of youth. Said it was like being 30 again......





TheCuriousWife said:


> Both his dad and brother have a full on thick beard. My husband can not grow ANY hair on his face except right at his chin. I don't know about the other symptoms.
> 
> His statement made me feel sad for him.  I think now that I opened up his shell, he realized that he doesn't feel great, and he really wanted to get better. I feel like I got his hopes up, just to crush them.
> 
> If it's not low testosterone, I still think something has got to be off. Maybe his libido is normal for him. But the other things are not normal for anyone. We shouldn't have trouble keeping him erect, and he should be having morning erections.
> 
> I will talk with him tonight and see what he wants to do. I'll follow his lead.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> That said, I remember reading an article a long time ago about this older man who was in a 3 month clinical trial for testosterone therapy. He was Mid 70's.
> 
> I just recall how intensely he described the experience. That he literally felt like he was drinking from the fountain of youth. Said it was like being 30 again......


Being 30 again with that kind of energy? 

Sign me Up!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Being 30 again with that kind of energy?
> 
> Sign me Up!


Me too!

My husband found he felt better as his T levels came up, which is partially why we believe his numbers are doing even better ( there is also the sex thing )


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And just like that I lost him. 

He is now back to saying, "well maybe I'm not so bad..."

He doesn't want to go to an endo now. We were so close. We were doing so good. He was in agreement, and I thought we would finally work on things together. But I think getting the let down from the doctor broke all hope he had. He is back to defensive mode.

He told me to talk to our doctor friend and get her opinion. He respects what she thinks, and I'm sure she will say he needs to go to a specialist. So that is about the last hope I have of swaying him back to taking this seriously. She is on vacation right now though, for a couple weeks.

We can't really take off any more days to go to the doctor for a couple months. So I guess we are going to put this on the back burner for now, and will revisit it later.  I feel like my footing is slipping and I'm loosing my assertiveness that I had. 

I had my one chance, and it's quickly falling away. I tried to reason with him yesterday and he just got mad. Ultimately it's his body, so his choice. I'm just very disappointed that we were so close to answers, and now he has done a 180 and is back to his old ways. He was thrilled to get treatment, I don't know what happened.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That is another fear of mine. That I will get some crappy endo that won't be any more helpful than the regular doc. IF I do get a second chance at him going to the doctor and they dismiss us, I'm sure I won't get a 3rd chance. He will just start thinking I'm crazy, and pushing a made up issue.

I looked up all the endos in the area, and all of them specialize in diabetic or thyroid endo. How do I tell if they have a good understanding of low T as well? Gah.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW... I know exactly how you're feeling right now  My ex ended up going to a urologist who basically reassured him that "all was well with the plumbing." (He literally said that ) It certainly was not the answer I was looking for.

I know you feel like your chance is slipping away, but the reality is this will probably be a rather long process -- to find the right doctor, get your husband back on board, actually get him to agree to go, find the right solutions, etc.

As for finding the right doctor, your own doc friend (the one who is on vacation) will probably have a good recommendation for you.

Be patient...


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Then go to the urologist that your PCP suggested. If anyone can tell your H that his lack of sex drive combined with inability to maintain an erection combined with not having morning wood is NOT normal it would be a urologist. Now he may not have the answers, but he can certainly be of the opinion that this needs further investigation to find the answers.

CW, you're going to have to be adamant that this isn't normal. You're going to have to stand firm and not accept your H trying to rationalize his erection libido issue. Yes it's his body/his decision but it clearly and deeply affects you!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> CW, you're going to have to be adamant that this isn't normal. You're going to have to stand firm and not accept your H trying to rationalize his erection libido issue. Yes it's his body/his decision but it clearly and deeply affects you!


:iagree:

I can't echo this sentiment enough. My ex and I "danced" round and round on this issue for YEARS... Eventually he would cave, do the bare minimum and visit yet another doctor, only to tell me that the doc said "everything is normal." But it wasn't.

He didn't (or couldn't?) care enough to solve the problem TOGETHER.

In the end, he ended up losing me and our marriage. Your hubs needs to know that this could very well end up happening to him down the road if he doesn't work WITH you to solve this.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Maybe google testosterone treatment for your area and see if any urologists or endos pop up for your area. Doctors who advertise themselves that way will probably not brush this off, if one test comes up normal they will keep looking. Also I would suggest you go hiking, biking, stay very active, if he can't keep up that may help your cause.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
That is a totally valid fear. 

I did some reading and was a bit stunned by what I found. 

This is how it looks to me. Doctors don't like giving men testosterone supplements. And the primary tactic they employ in avoiding a low T diagnosis is to take the T ranges for ALL men:
- young, old
- fat, fit
- diabetic, healthy

And combine them into one range they call 'normal'. 

Given, that I did what you did. Found a source that breaks down ranges by age. And yes - your H is average for a 70-80 year old. 


Turns out, there is often a 'non standard path' to what you want / need in these situations. 

The way that looks is this. You write a short script that gets you from the doctors receptionist to his longest serving nurse. 

And a script that gets her to give you a sense of the doctors experience level / treatment approach to your type of situation.

This is social engineering at it's finest. 

The key to these conversations is to use the right numbers. Stay away from his raw number. Do NOT say that number. Instead:

My H has a very low energy level, almost no sex drive and suffers from ED. His T levels are what you would find in a 70-80 year old man. 

Ideally you want to ask the nurse two key questions:

1. Does Doctor Smith treat a lot of low T patients? 
2. Are those patients typically happy with the treatment outcome?

(2) is code for - does he actually treat them or does he tell them they are fine and that they can go home and resume their octogenarian lifestyle.....




QUOTE=TheCuriousWife;10708362]That is another fear of mine. That I will get some crappy endo that won't be any more helpful than the regular doc. IF I do get a second chance at him going to the doctor and they dismiss us, I'm sure I won't get a 3rd chance. He will just start thinking I'm crazy, and pushing a made up issue.

I looked up all the endos in the area, and all of them specialize in diabetic or thyroid endo. How do I tell if they have a good understanding of low T as well? Gah.[/QUOTE]


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Forget my other advice. 

Get face to face with your doctor who is also a friend. Ask HER how to find an endo who will treat his symptoms and won't hide behind this gigantic range of T levels that is essentially meaningless. 

The other option is to find a 'low T center'. Those places will not hesitate to treat your H. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> That is another fear of mine. That I will get some crappy endo that won't be any more helpful than the regular doc. IF I do get a second chance at him going to the doctor and they dismiss us, I'm sure I won't get a 3rd chance. He will just start thinking I'm crazy, and pushing a made up issue.
> 
> I looked up all the endos in the area, and all of them specialize in diabetic or thyroid endo. How do I tell if they have a good understanding of low T as well? Gah.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> The other option is to find a 'low T center'. Those places will not hesitate to treat your H.



Judging from the aggressive advertising I hear on the radio for a couple local places I doubt an already reluctant Mr. CW would be willing to step foot in one of those.....


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> Judging from the aggressive advertising I hear on the radio for a couple local places I doubt an already reluctant Mr. CW would be willing to step foot in one of those.....


"Looking for a little more lead in your pencil? A little more starch in your noodle?"

---actual radio ad in my town


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I just want to add one more thing, CW...

My SO (age 53) is a total Alpha male... (strictly speaking by MY judgment )... his "normal" T-levels were always VERY high... He had been feeling very poorly recently; low energy, weak, not his usual "desire" for sex -- he tested at 486... 

The docs, knowing his former and recent levels (which were in the 800s) immediately started him on pure testosterone *injections* PLUS Andro-gel...

His levels shot back up promptly. He felt vigorous, "MANLY", and like himself again almost immediately. The low 400s is very low for a man of your husband's age. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Everyone has their own range of "normal"... a "chart" doesn't cut it if your guy needs "more" testosterone... Patients are NOT lab result data... they are PEOPLE... each person is different...

We started with his family doc, ended up at an endo-doc who took one look at my "Gorilla" SO and said, "This is SOOOOO obvious... you need more testosterone."

This can work out CW, but you (and your husband) have to be willing to do the leg work.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes



john117 said:


> Judging from the aggressive advertising I hear on the radio for a couple local places I doubt an already reluctant Mr. CW would be willing to step foot in one of those.....


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My guess would be that your husband has been doing some research on his own and doesn't like what he has been reading about TRT.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't think he has done any research. He is never alone, and he only uses my computer. I'm pretty tech savvy and see all the history.

I think he is just frustrated and retreating back into his shell. He also doesn't want to get more blood work.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Day 8 and I'm REALLY trying not to get upset.

He kind of tried to start something last night. I asked if he was interested and he said no. Then later he changed his mind and said, "You can go shower if you want." I said "That's okay." And that was the end of it. Would I have had sex? Yes! Did I want sex? Yes! 

So why did I act uninterested? Maybe because there was no kissing, no foreplay, no mention of sex all week. Maybe because I feel like he doesn't care, and doesn't want me. I'm not taking crappy pity sex, anymore. He has to show he wants me, not just remember that I need sex every once in a while, while we are watching tv, and not at all aroused, and he makes no attempt to get me in the mood. 

How about some neck kissing? How about some snuggling first? How about, "Baby, we haven't had sex in a week and I am so horny. How about you go clean up so I can ravish you?" 

After we laid in bed for two hours not touching, I did initiate some kissing. That was nice. But it was late, and he made no attempt to go further.

Sigh. Trying to not let the resentment build and keep me from enjoying sex tonight.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you to refuse the minimal offer to have sex. I am sorry he does not make a more passionate plea for sex with you. But I am glad you refused .. could have been just bad or mediocre sex.

I know the feeling though .. you want sex and to miss an opportunity to have sex takes some will power.

However I hope you have a better time tonight.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Good for you to refuse the minimal offer to have sex. I am sorry he does not make a more passionate plea for sex with you. But I am glad you refused .. could have been just bad or mediocre sex.
> 
> I know the feeling though .. you want sex and to miss an opportunity to have sex takes some will power.
> 
> However I hope you have a better time tonight.


Right. I was already mad, so if we did have sex, it would have just been bad. 

It does take some will power. Mostly I just feel guilty for not accepting the invitation... But why should I feel bad? He knows he could have talked me into it if he really wanted sex. He knows how I want him to initiate. It was just laziness on his part, yet I'm still the one who is left feeling bad.

Then later when we argue about sex, he will say, "But I did offer and you refused, so how can you say I'm the one who always rejects you, or that I never initiate." 

It's just a way to turn it around and make it my fault.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> So why did I act uninterested? Maybe because there was no kissing, no foreplay, no mention of sex all week...
> 
> How about some neck kissing? How about some snuggling first? How about, "Baby, we haven't had sex in a week and I am so horny. How about you go clean up so I can ravish you?"
> 
> Sigh. Trying to not let the resentment build and keep me from enjoying sex tonight.


This is especially hard for me to read. These LD/HD threads really trigger me .

More than just testosterone or sex drive, I believe a lot of it comes down to _personality._ My ex was not a "smoocher"... didn't like to make out, didn't like to simply take pleasure in the feel of someone else's body -- touching, squeezing, kissing, licking, etc. Further, he would never "talk dirty" to me... now, I'm not talking crude or demeaning, but I am talking ANIMAL talk, virile, growls, making your desire KNOWN to your partner, and then TAKING what you want.

My SO is a complete 180 from my ex. He makes it abundantly clear that he desires me, through texts all day long, the way he kisses me when he gets home from work, the way he kisses my neck and rubs other "unmentionables" while I'm cooking dinner, the way he turns the stove off, leads me to the bedroom and tells me, "Dinner can wait." 

When he is in the mood (or when I am, for that matter) it becomes fever-pitch and there's NO stopping it.

CW, from reading through all of your posts, it is evident YOU are a highly sexual person and HE is not. Like the old saying, leopards don't change their spots. You can load someone up all day long on testosterone, but if it's not in their personality to WANT all of those things, I'm not sure things will actually change. 

I'm going to check out of your thread for awhile because I don't want to discourage you. I can't bear to watch someone go through what I went through for 20 years. I truly loved my husband. But we didn't "click." I honestly believe it comes down to "chemistry", attraction, and personality (just look at my quote in my signature line.)

I never knew what I was missing until I found "it."

Hang in there CW...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Offering you can take a shower is not an initiation of sex! If stepped in dog poop and he suggested you take a shower to get the smell off is that an invitation for sex? NO!

This is like that hand that drifts over to the other side of the bed under the sheets to "test the waters" to see if the other person is interested in fooling around. It is so subtle, and it is designed to be subtle so that if you are rejected you don't feel bad.

So this tells me that either he did not really want sex, or that he was afraid that with your "mad" mood he might actually be rejected. Only you can determine which one it really was.

Either way, he needs to not be chicken about initiating sex. Either do it, or not. Then he will really know if he gets rejected.

Don't let his little catch phrase of "you can go shower if you wish" phrase be his way of saying that he initiated an you refused. Because it was "nothing ventured" on his part. Until he ventures something to actually be rejected about, then he has not actually made an attempt to initiate.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> My SO is a complete 180 from my ex. He makes it abundantly clear that he desires me, through texts all day long, the way he kisses me when he gets home from work, the way he kisses my neck and rubs other "unmentionables" while I'm cooking dinner, the way he turns the stove off, leads me to the bedroom and tells me, "Dinner can wait."
> 
> When he is in the mood (or when I am, for that matter) it becomes fever-pitch and there's NO stopping it.


Wow, sounds so wonderful. I can only imagine how it must feel for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Offering you can take a shower is not an initiation of sex! If stepped in dog poop and he suggested you take a shower to get the smell off is that an invitation for sex? NO!
> 
> This is like that hand that drifts over to the other side of the bed under the sheets to "test the waters" to see if the other person is interested in fooling around. It is so subtle, and it is designed to be subtle so that if you are rejected you don't feel bad.


:lol: Thanks for the reminder. You are right. 



> So this tells me that either he did not really want sex, or that he was afraid that with your "mad" mood he might actually be rejected. Only you can determine which one it really was.
> 
> Either way, he needs to not be chicken about initiating sex. Either do it, or not. Then he will really know if he gets rejected.


Don't forget that I initiated an hour or so earlier and he told me no! 



> Don't let his little catch phrase of "you can go shower if you wish" phrase be his way of saying that he initiated an you refused. Because it was "nothing ventured" on his part. Until he ventures something to actually be rejected about, then he has not actually made an attempt to initiate.


:iagree:

If he made an actual attempt to have sex, or was actually horny and told me so, I would never reject him. I'm never, not in the mood to have sex! It's just his presentation that drives me crazy and turns me off from having sex with him. 

I told him before that I'm not going to have sex with him, if that is the only way he initiates. It makes me feel very undesired and that he is only initiating because he has to. I think I need to remind him.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Offering you can take a shower is not an initiation of sex! If stepped in dog poop and he suggested you take a shower to get the smell off is that an invitation for sex? NO!
> 
> This is like that hand that drifts over to the other side of the bed under the sheets to "test the waters" to see if the other person is interested in fooling around. It is so subtle, and it is designed to be subtle so that if you are rejected you don't feel bad.
> 
> So this tells me that either he did not really want sex, or that he was afraid that with your "mad" mood he might actually be rejected. Only you can determine which one it really was.
> 
> Either way, he needs to not be chicken about initiating sex. Either do it, or not. Then he will really know if he gets rejected.
> 
> Don't let his little catch phrase of "you can go shower if you wish" phrase be his way of saying that he initiated an you refused. Because it was "nothing ventured" on his part. Until he ventures something to actually be rejected about, then he has not actually made an attempt to initiate.


:iagree:

THIS, THIS, THIS!!! All of this...

(Boy, I didn't stay gone very long, did I?!?! )

I appreciate wanting to shower and be clean before the act. But sometimes, your partner just wants to rip your clothes off and have at it. To me, that it what sex (and making love) is all about. It simply can't wait A MOMENT. It's animal.

Of course, having not showered may dictate certain things that may or may not happen in that particular session. But that's the beauty of it. You adjust.

I could not get "in the mood" if I knew it always had to be planned ahead, a big "cleansing/cleaning" ritual, showering, wait 'til later, etc.

Many times, the moment is "lost" when we stop to do all those things. 

Sex can be carnal, instantaneous, "right here, right now." There's no putting it on hold.

Ok, this time I WILL disappear...

:lol:


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Pull out "Happy as a Clam's" message and have him initiate that way. 

Since his chance of "getting lucky" with initiation is very high, he should go at it with gusto. Not a hint.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

Very good. You fully grasp this dynamic. This offer to: let you have sex with him isn't kind. It is unkind, selfish, guilt avoidance. 

The thing about a true Lioness is they have 3 modes of operation:
- Pads only (claws retracted) they are directing traffic by use of strength and balance, they may bat someone but the pads are soft.
- Low growl, light use of claws - this is to intimidate, not to injure
- Aggression with intent to maul - claws fully extended 

With his T levels, the slightest amount of stress kills the minimal sex drive he has. It was a stressful week. 

Playful intimidation is needed. Any half assed sexual offers should be met with a smile and: that's ok old man, I don't want you to over exert yourself.....









TheCuriousWife said:


> Right. I was already mad, so if we did have sex, it would have just been bad.
> 
> It does take some will power. Mostly I just feel guilty for not accepting the invitation... But why should I feel bad? He knows he could have talked me into it if he really wanted sex. He knows how I want him to initiate. It was just laziness on his part, yet I'm still the one who is left feeling bad.
> 
> Then later when we argue about sex, he will say, "But I did offer and you refused, so how can you say I'm the one who always rejects you, or that I never initiate."
> 
> It's just a way to turn it around and make it my fault.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> :iagree:
> 
> THIS, THIS, THIS!!! All of this...
> 
> (Boy, I didn't stay gone very long, did I?!?! )
> 
> I appreciate wanting to shower and be clean before the act. But sometimes, your partner just wants to rip your clothes off and have at it. To me, that it what sex (and making love) is all about. It simply can't wait A MOMENT. It's animal.
> 
> Of course, having not showered may dictate certain things that may or may not happen in that particular session. But that's the beauty of it. You adjust.
> 
> I could not get "in the mood" if I knew it always had to be planned ahead, a big "cleansing/cleaning" ritual, showering, wait 'til later, etc.
> 
> Many times, the moment is "lost" when we stop to do all those things.
> 
> Sex can be carnal, instantaneous, "right here, right now." There's no putting it on hold.
> 
> Ok, this time I WILL disappear...
> 
> :lol:


You don't have to disappear. lol

I am sorry to say the cleansing ritual is my rule. 

Too many comments about smell and/or taste has made me self conscious. No sex unless I have at least wiped things down.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> With his T levels, the slightest amount of stress kills the minimal sex drive he has. It was a stressful week.
> 
> Playful intimidation is needed. Any half assed sexual offers should be met with a smile and: that's ok old man, I don't want you to over exert yourself.....


:lol:

I LOVE this!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Time to change your schedule. 

Pick a new activity that is intensely physical and start doing it. Do it enough to reduce the amount of time you two spend together. 

Begin the process of deprioritizing him. No anger. No unhappiness. In fact, the opposite. Happy, nice. Just less available...





TheCuriousWife said:


> :lol:
> 
> I LOVE this!


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

MEM, all this is fine but if the gatekeeper ain't openin' the gates regardless of speech content or delivery one is still hosed.

You're dealing with low level fears and emotions that are largely immune to rational discussion.

Some ways of saying things are better than others but only marginally so. It's that simple I'm afraid...

In the example you presented there is no good way to change the other persons mind because the issue has been framed a priori. Simply ignore the person and is she calls because she needs bail money or was robbed then too bad. 

Don't think that in a discussion of this kind both sides start from an equal point in negotiating...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm glad I didn't give in to crappy sex the other day. 

Yesterday he tried the same line again and this time I just ignored it. After a few minutes he walked up to me, took my hand and sat down whatever I was holding. Then he picked me up and carried me to the shower. After which we had some awesome sex. Including some oral and dirty talk. :smthumbup:

The wait was well worth it. Again I say that he does know what I like and what I want. It's up to him if he chooses to be lazy about it, or if he wants to put in a little effort and get a better return. I am quite enthusiastic if he just gives me a little bit to work with.

Our anniversary is this weekend and we have booked a bed and breakfast for Saturday. I'm really excited to have a weekend away.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you. Your will power, your self control, and it gave you what you really wanted.

Hope you have a wonderful weekend.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Happy Anniversary Curious!! My anniversary is coming up very soon too - 28 years for me.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

This isn't sustainable. 

A mans T levels slowly but steadily fall each year. Once a week will become twice a month. Than once a month. Than even less.

By then you'll have children. 

You will feel more and more miserable. But it will happen so slowly that it won't jolt you into action.

Your only shot is to deal with this now. 

I do NOT like precipice dancing. That said, if I couldn't do it when needed, I would have an empty shell of a marriage. 

If you find the resolve to do what's needed, let me know and I'll take you through the process. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm glad I didn't give in to crappy sex the other day.
> 
> Yesterday he tried the same line again and this time I just ignored it. After a few minutes he walked up to me, took my hand and sat down whatever I was holding. Then he picked me up and carried me to the shower. After which we had some awesome sex. Including some oral and dirty talk. :smthumbup:
> 
> The wait was well worth it. Again I say that he does know what I like and what I want. It's up to him if he chooses to be lazy about it, or if he wants to put in a little effort and get a better return. I am quite enthusiastic if he just gives me a little bit to work with.
> 
> Our anniversary is this weekend and we have booked a bed and breakfast for Saturday. I'm really excited to have a weekend away.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Playful intimidation is needed. Any half assed sexual offers should be met with a smile and: *that's ok old man, I don't want you to over exert yourself..*...


:rofl: That's perfect!

Happy Anniversary. May this next year bring you what you desire.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How did the anniversary trip go Curious?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I'm back.

The trip went okay. Overall the stay was wonderful, and the place was great. We enjoyed each others company, and had fun.

But the sex was bad. Bad. He had major trouble with ED, first getting an erection, and then keeping it. Of course he was frustrated, and felt like all the pressure was on him because here we are in this romantic suite with candles and the world's biggest bathtub and he can't keep it up. Of course I also felt very unsexy because it does take it's toll on you when your husband constantly goes limp no matter what you do.

Then I had trouble getting to orgasm which just made him feel worse. I just wanted to finish him and be done because I didn't feel like I would ever get there, and it was becoming uncomfortable, but he wouldn't stop trying. It started to make me upset. In the end we both made it, but it was nothing short of a miracle, and it was way past fun or enjoyable by that point.

That was Saturday, and then sex yesterday on our actual Anniversary was not much better. 

On top of all this, I really haven't felt good for a week or so, and for some reason I have had absolutely no desire to have sex. Even at the romantic suite I was not at all excited about having sex. It was really hard to get in the mood. That is way out of character for me, and I don't know what's wrong. Husband has not done anything to put me off, but I have found myself trying to subtly weasel my way out of kissing and the like. :scratchhead: I am feeling pretty terrible.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

things come and go. moods come and go. hornyness comes and goes.

I haven't been that horny lately, but I keep trying. never deny her.

don't be hard on yourselves. A+ for effort, C- for results.
better than the reverse. 

maybe this will spur him into more motivation to address his man issues.


----------



## Zouz

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry , I missed reading all the pages but have a few questions :

- Does he have a low T .

- since when did the issue exist ?

- where you vulnerable to him before ; i.e when having sex did you open up and didn't nagg about hygiene, ruining your makeup , etc or about messing the bed , or anything like this ?

are you open toward trying things ?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Zouz said:


> Sorry , I missed reading all the pages but have a few questions :
> 
> - Does he have a low T .
> 
> - since when did the issue exist ?
> 
> - where you vulnerable to him before ; i.e when having sex did you open up and didn't nagg about hygiene, ruining your makeup , etc or about messing the bed , or anything like this ?
> 
> are you open toward trying things ?


The answers are in the thread if you read it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious~ focus on what you did have.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Curious~ focus on what you did have.


I'm trying.

I thought maybe all the apparent ED issues would be enough to encourage him to go see the specialist like the doctor said to, but no. He still won't go.

He wrote me an anniversary card saying he is sorry that he has issues and that he is happy I still love him, despite that. I really feel like getting mean about it and saying if he was really sorry he would do something. But I don't want to stir the pot. 

I will keep trying though.


----------



## Zouz

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

198 pages !

sorry haven't red them


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Zouz said:


> Sorry , I missed reading all the pages but have a few questions :
> 
> - Does he have a low T .
> 
> *Low Average*
> 
> - since when did the issue exist ?
> 
> *Forever*
> 
> - where you vulnerable to him before ; i.e when having sex did you open up and didn't nagg about hygiene, ruining your makeup , etc or about messing the bed , or anything like this ?
> 
> *Yes*
> 
> are you open toward trying things ?
> 
> *Yes*


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm trying.
> 
> I thought maybe all the apparent ED issues would be enough to encourage him to go see the specialist like the doctor said to, but no. He still won't go.
> 
> He wrote me an anniversary card saying he is sorry that he has issues and that he is happy I still love him, despite that. I really feel like getting mean about it and saying if he was really sorry he would do something. But I don't want to stir the pot.
> 
> I will keep trying though.



Stir the pot!

I don't doubt that part of the recent ED troubles were triggered by the recent light being shined on the ED troubles. It's a paradox in that the more it's on his mind, the more his penis is affected. Yet, if it's not on his mind, in order to get it properly addressed, it might not always be so bad, so he concludes it's best to just forget the whole thing. But if you don't stir the pot and don't insist he continue to seek dx and treatment, it will always be like this and will slowly get worse. 

Not all ED is constant. Sometimes it's bad and other times it isn't present, like a spiral continuing downhill. He needs to get off the spiral by getting a dx and treatment plan.

In terms of you not been feeling well... You better not be pregnant!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He wrote me an anniversary card saying he is sorry that he has issues and that *he is happy I still love him, despite that.*


This upsets me. I got the same cards and letters for years and years with the same lame excuses. That message to you is meant to assuage your husband of his guilt and lay it back in your lap. In other words, its a passive aggressive way to guilt you into never leaving.

And if he really was "sorry" about his "issues" and how it affects you, he would move and heaven and earth to fix them. I'm sorry, but he simply is unwilling to "man up" and take charge of HIS health.



TheCuriousWife said:


> I really feel like getting mean about it and saying if he was really sorry he would do something.


You *should* say this! CW, your anniversary trip was ridiculous. And now you don't even want to kiss him and are starting to feel a lack of desire for him. This is a slippery slope. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> But I don't want to stir the pot.


What's your alternative? To keep suffering in silence while resentment builds?

At some point, you will draw a line in the sand. I just hope you don't wait too many years to draw it.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm trying.
> 
> I thought maybe all the apparent ED issues would be enough to encourage him to go see the specialist like the doctor said to, but no. He still won't go.
> 
> *He wrote me an anniversary card saying he is sorry that he has issues and that he is happy I still love him, despite that.* I really feel like getting mean about it and saying if he was really sorry he would do something. But I don't want to stir the pot.
> 
> I will keep trying though.


Sigh.

*(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻*

I don't understand!!! Even if you didn't want sex EVER, wouldn't you still want your c0ck to work properly?! I'm sorry CW, I do not get your H at all. He is so foreign to me, he might as well be from another planet.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> This upsets me. I got the same cards and letters for years and years with the same lame excuses. That message to you is meant to assuage your husband of his guilt and lay it back in your lap. In other words, its a passive aggressive way to guilt you into never leaving.
> 
> And if he really was "sorry" about his "issues" and how it affects you, he would move and heaven and earth to fix them. I'm sorry, but he simply is unwilling to "man up" and take charge of HIS health.
> 
> You *should* say this! CW, your anniversary trip was ridiculous. And now you don't even want to kiss him and are starting to feel a lack of desire for him. This is a slippery slope.
> 
> What's your alternative? To keep suffering in silence while resentment builds?
> 
> At some point, you will draw a line in the sand. I just hope you don't wait too many years to draw it.


I agree. But to be clear I did bring up the doctor again. I just didn't feel like arguing about it on our anniversary. So we talked about it for a while then dropped it.

I WILL be bringing it up again. 

Also I had a lack of desire for him before the trip. Sex has been pretty crappy lately, and no fault of his. I just haven't been "feeling it" recently. 

Work has been really stressful and I haven't been sleeping. That is probably the main culprit.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Stir the pot!
> 
> I don't doubt that part of the recent ED troubles were triggered by the recent light being shined on the ED troubles. It's a paradox in that the more it's on his mind, the more his penis is affected. Yet, if it's not on his mind, in order to get it properly addressed, it might not always be so bad, so he concludes it's best to just forget the whole thing. But if you don't stir the pot and don't insist he continue to seek dx and treatment, it will always be like this and will slowly get worse.
> 
> Not all ED is constant. Sometimes it's bad and other times it isn't present, like a spiral continuing downhill. He needs to get off the spiral by getting a dx and treatment plan.
> 
> In terms of you not been feeling well... You better not be pregnant!



I'm NOT pregnant. 

And yes I agree. Sometimes things work great, then other times, not so much. 

The entire time during sex I'm thinking, "I'm feeling so close. I hope he doesn't lose it now." 

It is embarrassing for him I'm sure, but it is embarrassing for me too. I already feel unsexy, and that certainly doesn't help.

I'm constantly worried about his ego, and if he can feel anything, or if he is bored, or if it even feels good. I'm always asking, "Do I need to move? Does it feel good? Do we need to switch positions?"

I don't even realize this is normal sex for us now, unless I really step back and think about it.

It's hard for me to relax and focus on myself. That is a real issue for me. I try, but I just can't stop the thoughts.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm NOT pregnant.
> 
> And yes I agree. Sometimes things work great, then other times, not so much.
> 
> *The entire time during sex I'm thinking, "I'm feeling so close. I hope he doesn't lose it now." *
> 
> It is embarrassing for him I'm sure, but it is embarrassing for me too. I already feel unsexy, and that certainly doesn't help.
> 
> *I'm constantly worried about his ego, and if he can feel anything, or if he is bored, or if it even feels good. I'm always asking, "Do I need to move? Does it feel good? Do we need to switch positions?"*
> 
> I don't even realize this is normal sex for us now, unless I really step back and think about it.
> 
> *It's hard for me to relax and focus on myself. That is a real issue for me. I try, but I just can't stop the thoughts*.


Happy as a Clam, FW, Fozzy, John, and others probably knows these same exact thoughts. I do, just from the HD guy/LD wife viewpoint. It sucks.

These are some examples that can be used in the other recent thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/229090-desire-how-do-you-know.html. This is one of the ways you know your the HD in an HD/LD relationship.



> I don't even realize this is normal sex for us now, unless I really step back and think about it.


This is how we got stuck in the trap for so long. I'm so glad for you that you can recognize it already.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

His resistance to medical treatment of a condition that is clearly causing YOU a lot of distress is bothering you a LOT.





TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree. But to be clear I did bring up the doctor again. I just didn't feel like arguing about it on our anniversary. So we talked about it for a while then dropped it.
> 
> I WILL be bringing it up again.
> 
> Also I had a lack of desire for him before the trip. Sex has been pretty crappy lately, and no fault of his. I just haven't been "feeling it" recently.
> 
> Work has been really stressful and I haven't been sleeping. That is probably the main culprit.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The entire time during sex I'm thinking, "I'm feeling so close. *I hope he doesn't lose it now."*
> 
> *I'm constantly worried about his ego*, and if he can feel anything, or if he is bored, or if it even feels good. I'm always asking, *"Do I need to move? Does it feel good? Do we need to switch positions?"*
> 
> *I don't even realize this is normal sex for us now, unless I really step back and think about it.*
> 
> *It's hard for me to relax and focus on myself.* That is a real issue for me. *I try, but I just can't stop the thoughts.*


Oh CW... 

You are SO over-analyzing this (I don't blame you a bit at this point, I did it for years too). And if you're having all these thoughts running through your head during sex, you can bet HE is too...

"Am I gonna be able to keep it up? Am I gonna be able to please her? Is she gonna orgasm? Am I?"

Sex shouldn't be this d*mn difficult. It's a natural expression of love and affection between two people who are attracted to each other.

I hate to be cliche... but think of animals in nature. When the time comes, they just DO IT. It happens naturally and beautifully. We humans get all kinds of emotions, mind-movies, head-games and over-analysis thrown into the mix. It's such a shame that it has to be this way.

My ex admitted to me recently, when having another "sex talk" with our 20-year-old son, that he (hubs) never "really" understood sex until VERY recently (I'm assuming he started researching to see why our marriage was a failure.)

As you know, this thread really triggers me  but I hang in here to "save" one more soul from ending up where I did. Twenty years invested, two kids, a quagmire of financial issues to disentangle, and asking yourself, "Is this IT? Is this really ALL there is to marriage?"

It takes finding a COMPATIBLE person (or helping your husband to BECOME that compatible person), when sex is explosive, your bodies are "humming" at the anticipation, it feels "natural", not contrived, not forced -- just d*mn AWESOME -- to finally realize what you settled for.

I'm rooting for you CW


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm curious what he finally "understood" about it Clam?


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> It takes finding a COMPATIBLE person (or helping your husband to BECOME that compatible person), when sex is explosive, your bodies are "humming" at the anticipation, it feels "natural", not contrived, not forced -- just d*mn AWESOME -- to finally realize what you settled for.


I had to think back to a previous LTR to remember what an HD/HD relationship was like, I had forgotten for so long myself. It really is sooooooo different. Sex just pretty much seems to happen and doesn't have to be manufactured and is never awkward. Sex comes as naturally as a hug. To me it's the difference between someone that WILL have sex with you vs someone that WANTS to have sex with you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Oh CW...
> 
> You are SO over-analyzing this (I don't blame you a bit at this point, I did it for years too). And if you're having all these thoughts running through your head during sex, you can bet HE is too...
> 
> "Am I gonna be able to keep it up? Am I gonna be able to please her? Is she gonna orgasm? Am I?"
> 
> Sex shouldn't be this d*mn difficult. It's a natural expression of love and affection between two people who are attracted to each other.
> 
> I hate to be cliche... but think of animals in nature. When the time comes, they just DO IT. It happens naturally and beautifully. We humans get all kinds of emotions, mind-movies, head-games and over-analysis thrown into the mix. It's such a shame that it has to be this way.


:iagree:

Maybe that is why I haven't been in the mood. Sex isn't natural, it is difficult. Lots of prepping, wondering if this is a good time or not, worrying if he is going to go soft, wondering if he is going to enjoy it, wondering if I will be able to get there, or if I won't be able to perform and he will feel like a failure.

It's complicated. And recently it just hasn't been worth it I guess. It hasn't ended in bliss and smiles. It has been boring, and a struggle.

Switching positions, same old routine, worrying about what he thinks... It's not fun when it's forced and causes anxiety.

But I don't know how to fix it. Husband has been trying, really. He has been giving me oral, dirty talking, etc. But it just isn't doing it for me at this time.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I'm curious what he finally "understood" about it Clam?


I have NO idea, 4x4!!! It was a "private" conversation between him and my son. I guess my son had some "guy" questions about a girl he is involved with.

My ex and I (despite all the bitterness during the divorce) have managed to co-parent quite well. We have kids still in college and high school (senior who is in the middle of the whole "college search") and our conversations have become much more friendly over the past year. All for the common goal to get these kids raised as productive little members of society!

Ex brought it up to me in the context of, "Son was asking me questions about a girl he likes, sex, and "x, y and z." I told him I didn't have a clue... took me 30 years to finally 'figure sex out'!!"

I didn't ask, he didn't elaborate. But I'm guessing his new GF (now that they are broken up) echoed ALL of the same issues, complaints, disbelief, :wtf:, that I did.

Only, in HER case she didn't build a lifetime and have children with him, so she had the ability to bolt much sooner than I did.

Stay tuned... he's a real "talker" and over time he will probably reveal to me what he has "learned"...  I will share as I "learn" more. He's never been able to stop talking. :lol:

(Sorry for the threadjack, CW.)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I had to think back to a previous LTR to remember what an HD/HD relationship was like, I had forgotten for so long myself. It really is sooooooo different. Sex just pretty much seems to happen and doesn't has to be manufactured and never awkward. Sex comes as naturally as a hug. To me it's the difference between someone that WILL have sex with you vs someone that WANTS to have sex with you.


Spot on.

My sex life feels manufactured and awkward. 

Husband wants to improve and he asks what he can do to help, but I don't even know. It's just personality differences.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Some people just don't like sex much or at all.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Maybe that is why I haven't been in the mood. Sex isn't natural, it is difficult. *Lots of prepping*, *wondering* if this is a good time or not, *worrying* if he is going to go soft, *wondering* if he is going to enjoy it, *wondering *if I will be able to get there, or if I won't be able to perform and *he will feel like a failure.*
> 
> It's complicated. And *recently it just hasn't been worth it* I guess. It hasn't ended in bliss and smiles. It has been *boring, and a struggle.*
> 
> Switching positions, same old routine, *worrying* about what he thinks... *It's not fun when it's forced and causes anxiety.*
> 
> But *I don't know how to fix it.* Husband has been trying, really. He has been giving me oral, dirty talking, etc. But *it just isn't doing it for me* at this time.


CW... {{{hugs}}}

Look at all the words I bolded. This is ALL going on during sex. Sex should be a time when you let go, a free-for-all in your thoughts, your mind, your body. You should relish the experience without all that baggage. 

PM me if you ever feel like just talking . I know I alienated you a bit when I suggested you stop this thread for awhile. But my heart was in the right place (I mean that sincerely). These LD/HD threads are really painful for me to read. I should probably just stay away. But having lived through it -- and for a LOOONNNGG period of time -- I feel like this is the one area where I really do have something to offer to fellow TAMers.

I know everyone's "story" has the ability to end differently. I hope yours ends differently than mine. I just see this pattern over and over here, and it makes me sad.

I truly know how you feel 

I was married to a man *who I really loved* for all the right reasons, but we just couldn't "click" in that way that makes couples a "couple."

I want to see your marriage succeed. I know you love this man, just as I loved my husband.

Sadly, I learned that sometimes "love" just isn't enough...


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Spot on.
> 
> *My sex life feels manufactured and awkward.*
> 
> Husband wants to improve and he asks what he can do to help, but I don't even know. *It's just personality differences.*


^ ^ ^
THIS. :iagree:

This truly is the most "enlightened" and "aware" comment I've seen you make .

That's what it took me 20 years to FINALLY figure out.

When I finally met the love of my life, my SO, EVERYTHING just clicked in the bedroom (and I mean everything ) It finally dawned on me just HOW much of my personality, my desire, my need to feel loved, my *humanity,* had been denied for so long.

Bowing out for a little while. This brings up painful memories.

Kudos to you CW for sticking with this and trying to find a solution...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks. And you are right. I over think things, a LOT. 

Not just sex. Day to day life. I have trouble sleeping at night because I can't stop thinking about work, and what I need to get done.


It is terribly hard to relax and enjoy sex with all that going through my mind. It is a hindrance.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But the sex was bad. Bad. He had major trouble with ED, first getting an erection, and then keeping it. Of course he was frustrated, and felt like all the pressure was on him because here we are in this romantic suite with candles and the world's biggest bathtub and he can't keep it up. Of course I also felt very unsexy because it does take it's toll on you when your husband constantly goes limp no matter what yo.


FWIW, warm to hot water makes me semi-lose my boner. Moving to the bed to finish is mandatory. I know you've got issues but the bath may have been a little problematic for him


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> FWIW, warm to hot water *makes me semi-lose my boner.* Moving to the bed to finish is mandatory. I know you've got issues but the bath may have been a little problematic for him


Hallelujah, anonmd!!!

I've been saying it for awhile! All that showering, prepping, cleaning, body-cleansing, KILLS the moment!!!

Sometimes you just want to taste and feel your lover in all their "unshowered" glory! Animal.... groooowwwwwllll...


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sounds familiar, "you're not doing THAT when I haven't showered" :nono: 

Now, the pool has no such effect


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He can stop with the double talk and go to the endocrinologist....

Why won't he do the one thing, that is actually likely to help?





TheCuriousWife said:


> Spot on.
> 
> My sex life feels manufactured and awkward.
> 
> Husband wants to improve and he asks what he can do to help, but I don't even know. It's just personality differences.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

No.

No no no.

Your issues with sex are not YOU. I'm not going to sit here and listen to you lie to yourself in the interest of excusing your husbands cowardly and selfish behavior. 

No. 

You my dear, are a gem. You remind me of M2 when she was your age. There is no higher compliment - not from me. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks. And you are right. I over think things, a LOT.
> 
> Not just sex. Day to day life. I have trouble sleeping at night because I can't stop thinking about work, and what I need to get done.
> 
> 
> It is terribly hard to relax and enjoy sex with all that going through my mind. It is a hindrance.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, I'm sorry to hear about your turn for the worse with your H. He must get his T levels fixed. This should be nonnegotiable. No more games. If it was me, and no kids in this marriage, I'd give the ultimatum...get help with the ED/low T or get used to life without you. I couldn't imagine not wanting yo have sex with my wife. 

You cannot have a good marriage without real intimacy provided the both of you are healthy for sex and the sex issues are fixable.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> This should be nonnegotiable... No more games. If it was me, and no kids in this marriage, *I'd give the ultimatum...get help with the ED/low T or get used to life without you.* I couldn't imagine not wanting to have sex with my wife.
> 
> *You cannot have a good marriage without real intimacy* provided the both of you are healthy for sex and the sex issues are fixable.


:iagree::iagree:

I completely agree! But why can't CW *SEE *this? Why is she is just hoping against all odds that love will conquer all? We old-timers who have been in sexless, sexually unfulfilling relationships, know that's just not the case.

CW, are you reading this?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm NOT pregnant.
> 
> And yes I agree. Sometimes things work great, then other times, not so much.
> 
> The entire time during sex I'm thinking, "I'm feeling so close. I hope he doesn't lose it now."
> 
> *Nothing makes it harder to get there than to think thoughts like this.*
> 
> It is embarrassing for him I'm sure, but it is embarrassing for me too. I already feel unsexy, and that certainly doesn't help.
> 
> *This may sound a little harsh, but try to understand that there is something wrong with him functionally. Then just remember that you are sexy, and that is NOT the problem. *
> 
> I'm constantly worried about his ego, and if he can feel anything, or if he is bored, or if it even feels good. I'm always asking, "Do I need to move? Does it feel good? Do we need to switch positions?"
> 
> *Ouch, way too much thoughts. Way to much analysis.*
> 
> I don't even realize this is normal sex for us now, unless I really step back and think about it.
> 
> *Does not leave you with fond memories of having sex.*
> 
> It's hard for me to relax and focus on myself. That is a real issue for me. I try, but I just can't stop the thoughts.


The two of you must be going at it trying to please each other. And since you don't feel it and get feedback you don't know what to do to please each other. So it has become a chore to figure what to do to each other to make the most progress toward orgasm. This can't be very good.

It is hard to be a little more selfish and concentrate on yourself when you know your partner is having trouble and needs a little more help.

I suggest you press the issue of seeing the specialist. Remember that this is not just for you, he will have a much better time having sex with you when the problems are fixed. And that will make him happy. In addition it will make him confident that there is not a looming reason for you to leave him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Hallelujah, anonmd!!!
> 
> I've been saying it for awhile! All that showering, prepping, cleaning, body-cleansing, KILLS the moment!!!
> 
> Sometimes you just want to taste and feel your lover in all their "unshowered" glory! Animal.... groooowwwwwllll...


We weren't in the bathtub. I was just saying that we booked this romantic suite that screamed sex and intimacy and he felt guilty because he couldn't get an erection. 

We had taken a bath earlier in the day. (We both love baths and don't get them at home.) In fact we took 3 or 4 during our one night stay. lol.

But that had nothing to do with it.

Also. Again I say. I don't mind him unshowered at all. I don't ask him to before sex. But he has made enough comments about my taste and smell that he isn't getting near me until I'm positive I'm clean. I don't want to add more bad thoughts to my already crowded mind while having sex. The last thing I need is to worry about being clean.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> No.
> 
> No no no.
> 
> Your issues with sex are not YOU. I'm not going to sit here and listen to you lie to yourself in the interest of excusing your husbands cowardly and selfish behavior.
> 
> No.
> 
> You my dear, are a gem. You remind me of M2 when she was your age. There is no higher compliment - not from me.


I'm not putting the blame on me, or excusing him.

I'm just saying I wish I could slow down my thoughts so I could enjoy sex more. I know that has nothing to do with his selfishness or ED. But it would definitely improve the pleasure of sex for me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> I completely agree! But why can't CW *SEE *this? Why is she is just hoping against all odds that love will conquer all? We old-timers who have been in sexless, sexually unfulfilling relationships, know that's just not the case.
> 
> CW, are you reading this?


I read you loud and clear. But I'm not in a sexless marriage. And I'm not willing to give up my life at this time because of awkward sex. 

I don't believe love will conquer all. But divorce is simply not what I want. No one is going to force me to do something that I don't want. 

He will be going back to the doctor.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> The two of you must be going at it trying to please each other. And since you don't feel it and get feedback you don't know what to do to please each other. So it has become a chore to figure what to do to each other to make the most progress toward orgasm. This can't be very good.
> 
> It is hard to be a little more selfish and concentrate on yourself when you know your partner is having trouble and needs a little more help.
> 
> I suggest you press the issue of seeing the specialist. Remember that this is not just for you, he will have a much better time having sex with you when the problems are fixed. And that will make him happy. In addition it will make him confident that there is not a looming reason for you to leave him.


No sex doesn't leave many fond memories right now. It just makes me anxious. 

And you are spot on. Sex isn't romantic, or natural. It's just us trying to get to orgasm the fastest and easiest way possible. 

He will be going back to a specialist as soon as we can get him some more days off. I'm guessing in December or January.


----------



## Zouz

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The Curious Lady ,

Forgive me if I say that you are a major part of the problem ; actually you could be the trigger .

I might be wrong but analyze some of your words :


" I was just saying that we booked this romantic suite that screamed sex and intimacy "

The guy loves you , he has some defficiency but it's not major :

"And yes I agree. Sometimes things work great, then other times, not so much. "

you are making him feel guilty , then the sense of guilt reciproque to you that you could be the cause if you don't look good.


A woman can be beautiful , charming and sexy even if she is 90 years old ; Understand what I say ; her voice can be hot ; her touch can be unique ; 

every women has a charm that can trigger something ... it is not how she looks only in panties .

That's the way I see it ; and I truely believe majority of mature males do see it same way .

I sometimes hear gossips when a friend get involved with what some ppl see as ugly women ; then I see them both ; And only recently I was able to see the beauty within every women .

listen women , Your man is not sick ;he might need some enhancers ; he needs a wife who would look at him with pride ; 

I was on low T for a period long back ( I wish I am Still , wouldn't have probs), very low and I got an erection when my wife crossed "china wall" for some time .

Before putting your man under stress to wait for some consultancy in Jan /Feb .

Put a plaster on your mouth to say things similar to above , detect his readiness before you make your move ; before you freak him ,

if he is not ready , cuddle a bit , you should be able to tell ; move steady toward things with improvments every day;because the way it is happening now is similar to my village in the 1950s where Ladies were used to sit by the door waiting groom and bride - while they are having their first encounter - to come out with the good news and a piece of linen as a proof of virginity .



Good luck .


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No sex doesn't leave many fond memories right now. It just makes me anxious.
> 
> And you are spot on. Sex isn't romantic, or natural. It's just us trying to get to orgasm the fastest and easiest way possible.
> 
> He will be going back to a specialist as soon as we can get him some more days off. I'm guessing in December or January.


Does not sound like it is all that hard for you to "hang in there." But I can see that it must be hard to be patient. You want things to change for the better right now. Unfortunately it is going to take some time. I can only offer a cliche "The best things in life are worth waiting for."

Perhaps somebody has some exercise you can do to try to condition yourself to just going with the pleasure and forgetting about the orgasm. Masturbation .. the vibe? perhaps this can help you to condition yourself to put all these pleasure breaking thoughts out of your head.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Zouz said:


> The Curious Lady ,
> 
> Forgive me if I say that you are a major part of the problem ; actually you could be the trigger .
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but you are wrong. I NEVER make him feel guilty about him loosing an erection. Heck he didn't even know he had ED until we talked about it before the doctor. Because I didn't want to hurt his feelings.

He is the one who puts pressure on himself. 

I am not the major part of the problem, and I look fine.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Does not sound like it is all that hard for you to "hang in there." But I can see that it must be hard to be patient. You want things to change for the better right now. Unfortunately it is going to take some time. I can only offer a cliche "The best things in life are worth waiting for."
> 
> Perhaps somebody has some exercise you can do to try to condition yourself to just going with the pleasure and forgetting about the orgasm. Masturbation .. the vibe? perhaps this can help you to condition yourself to put all these pleasure breaking thoughts out of your head.


Thanks.

I masturbate just fine. It is husband who causes me anxiety. So I don't think it would help unfortunately.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I masturbate just fine. It is husband who causes me anxiety. So I don't think it would help unfortunately.


Sorry. I was hoping somebody would have a suggesting to help condition yourself so that when you are with him you can keep these mood killer thoughts out of your head. But I know exactly what it feels like. The harder you try to control your though process, the more you think about it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Sorry. I was hoping somebody would have a suggesting to help condition yourself so that when you are with him you can keep these mood killer thoughts out of your head. But I know exactly what it feels like. The harder you try to control your though process, the more you think about it.


Yeah. It's like a never ending circle.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The thoughts she posted yesterday aren't going away until the issues get resolved, if they can. They are the result of crappy awkward sex with an partner that's not really into it. I know them well. Sorry CW. The best she can do for now is refuse him if he's not 100% into it.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He wrote me an anniversary card saying he is sorry that he has issues and that he is happy I still love him, despite that. I really feel like getting mean about it and saying* if he was really sorry he would do something*.



That's exactly it - if he was genuinely sorry, he'd follow through in seeing a specialist. Is that really so hard to do? Is it really so bleeping much to ask of him ?!!

This has ME saying "Arrggghhhh!". I dont know how you hold it together with him. Really I don't. The guy truly is lucky, because a lot of women would have reached their limit by now.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I
> The entire time during sex I'm thinking, "I'm feeling so close. I hope he doesn't lose it now." It is embarrassing for him I'm sure, but it is embarrassing for me too. I already feel unsexy, and that certainly doesn't help. I'm constantly worried about his ego, and if he can feel anything, or if he is bored, or if it even feels good. I'm always asking, "Do I need to move? Does it feel good? Do we need to switch positions?"I don't even realize this is normal sex for us now, unless I really step back and think about it. It's hard for me to relax and focus on myself. That is a real issue for me. I try, but I just can't stop the thoughts.



Gosh! That is _so_ NOT how sex is supposed to be. What you described sounds so stressful... like you really have to work at it. This is all so WRONG, and I'm really so sorry for you. Sex should be a relaxing escape, where you both get to shut out the world and the worries of the day and just dissolve into pleasure with one another. You come out of it feeling refreshed, and relaxed and invigorated and ready to go back out there and deal with the ups and downs of life. Sure sometimes there can be little hiccups for any couple where for whatever reason its just not working, but that should by far be an exception, not the norm. How can you possibly feel any anticipation or excitement about making love if this is what you have to look forward to? How can your husband possibly be content to let this situation stand as it is?! I'm so disappointed, it sounded like he had really taken some huge leaps forward in his attitude. I can only imagine that the disappointment you are feeling about his backtracking must feel absolutely crushing.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My sex life feels manufactured and awkward. Husband wants to improve and he asks what he can do to help, but I don't even know. It's just personality differences.


What he can do to help is FOLLOW THROUGH WITH GOING TO THE SPECIALIST!!!! Why is he even asking this question??! When you tell him what you want him to do in an effort to help, he REFUSES.

DOUBLE TALK as MEM said. IT NEEDS TO STOP.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The post below is spot on. 

You have been remarkably kind, patient and honest. 

I know this is hard for your H. 

If you can, and you may need to apply some pressure, you ought to try very, very hard to find out what he is afraid of? Regarding medical treatment. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm sorry, but you are wrong. I NEVER make him feel guilty about him loosing an erection. Heck he didn't even know he had ED until we talked about it before the doctor. Because I didn't want to hurt his feelings.
> 
> He is the one who puts pressure on himself.
> 
> I am not the major part of the problem, and I look fine.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Gosh! That is _so_ NOT how sex is supposed to be. What you described sounds so stressful... like you really have to work at it. This is all so WRONG, and I'm really so sorry for you. Sex should be a relaxing escape, where you both get to shut out the world and the worries of the day and just dissolve into pleasure with one another. You come out of it feeling refreshed, and relaxed and invigorated and ready to go back out there and deal with the ups and downs of life. Sure sometimes there can be little hiccups for any couple where for whatever reason its just not working, but that should by far be an exception, not the norm. How can you possibly feel any anticipation or excitement about making love if this is what you have to look forward to? How can your husband possibly be content to let this situation stand as it is?! I'm so disappointed, it sounded like he had really taken some huge leaps forward in his attitude. I can only imagine that the disappointment you are feeling about his backtracking must feel absolutely crushing.


I agree. It is very stressful, and I honestly can't believe how high my drive is/was despite the crappy circumstances. You think I would have hated it, and it would have caused me to have a low drive. But no. I still crave sex. 

Even now I crave sex. But not with my husband... at least not in "real life." 

In my fantasies I have great sex with him. All day I think about having sex with him. But when I get home and he initiates lazily, the mood is killed. It just includes too much drama and stress. 

I mean to be clear. Things aren't going any worse. He is still trying, and still initiating every couple days. He still cares about my orgasm. His attitude is the same. Nothing has changed except for his willingness to go to the doctor. So it's not like we backtracked a lot.

But things also aren't getting any better. And it's just getting to me recently. I felt so empowered when he agreed to go to the doctor. I had hope, I thought things would finally get better. And now I just feel like all the wind has been taken out of my sails. Everything just seems impossible. 

I think he notices I'm off. He has tried to be extra attentive, and has put extra effort in especially during sex. But no matter what he does it just isn't having any positive affect on me. Which of course is making me feel bad because he is trying.

I feel like crying, and I did shed a quick tear during our trip. But I don't know why exactly. I don't know how to feel better, I don't know what I want. I just know I'm not happy with how things are.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> The post below is spot on.
> 
> You have been remarkably kind, patient and honest.
> 
> I know this is hard for your H.
> 
> If you can, and you may need to apply some pressure, you ought to try very, very hard to find out what he is afraid of? Regarding medical treatment.


I know what he is afraid of.

He is afraid of passing out again. He is afraid of getting blood work again.

And I think most importantly, he is afraid of the doctor pushing him off and him feeling disappointed again. It hit him pretty hard.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sure the increased ED troubles are caused from bringing the problem to light recently. Before the doctor he was fine pretending there wasn't a problem, and he could just laugh it off or make excuses. Ie. He was tired or stressed, or whatever.

But now that it was brought out in the open it is on his mind, and he is feeling pressured.

When he couldn't get an erection on the trip at first he said, "It's the tv. It's distracting me." So I turned it off. Of course that didn't help, and I think he realized, no it was just him. That of course sent him into a downward spiral, to which we barely recovered from.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you spoken to your doctor (friend) to see if she can help you find an endo who will actually try to treat him?



QUOTE=TheCuriousWife;10798498]I know what he is afraid of.

He is afraid of passing out again. He is afraid of getting blood work again.

And I think most importantly, he is afraid of the doctor pushing him off and him feeling disappointed again. It hit him pretty hard.[/QUOTE]


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Have you spoken to your doctor (friend) to see if she can help you find an endo who will actually try to treat him?


I plan on it. She is currently still on vacation but will be returning next week.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

In a perfect world she would personally make the referral. And maybe set the table in your favor by letting the endo know how incredibly disruptive this is to your marriage....





TheCuriousWife said:


> I plan on it. She is currently still on vacation but will be returning next week.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> In a perfect world she would personally make the referral. And maybe set the table in your favor by letting the endo know how incredibly disruptive this is to your marriage....


Since she's a family friend I would ask for that.


----------



## Kari

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, I recommend you buy and then both you and your H read the book Testosterone for Life by Morgentaler, available on Amazon.com. Your H needs to get his free testosterone levels tested as well as his estrogen levels. Your H's total T value may vary by up to 70-80 from test to test or day or day. It's tougher to find a doc to treat if a man is at the borderline with a total T in the lw 400’s, but it is really too low for a man as young as your H.

Please listen to the good advice from justfabulous, MEM, Anon, and happy as a clam about standing firm about insisting on treatment from an endo or a urologist. I think maybe a urologist is better to approach since they tend to deal more with sexual issues. 

My H does semiweekly T shots, but I guess your H would do HCG instead or in addition to Testosterone since your H is younger and still cares about his fertility.

It takes about 4 weeks to start seeing libido improvements. My H felt weird and dizzy for the first couple of weeks or whenever his dosage was increased, until he adapted to the higher T levels. Also he switched to doing self injections twice a week - once a week leads to spikes in T that are too high and can lead to converting T into estrogen. If your H is afraid of doing self injections, perhaps you could do it. I learned to inject my H before he decided to start taking care of it himself. Second best is Androgel but that isnt well absorbed by some men. I would avoid implanted pellets until your H finds a dosage that works for him. Expect to spend the first year retesting his T levels and raising or lowering the dosage. My H has not taken HCG but I assume the same process of finding the proper dosage over time would be needed. Each man is different and you cannot predict the dosage that will work best for him without some trial and dosage adjustments.

I wish I would have thought about testing my H's levels about 15 years earlier, but back then, he probably would have had levels like your H. My H's interest in sex dropped over time from sex once a week to once per month. Now after treatment, we are at 2-3 times per week. It was difficult convincing my H, but I'm so glad now that I didn't give up.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Amen to that ....




the2ofus said:


> Since she's a family friend I would ask for that.


----------



## GrannyMildew

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious Wife- Hello to you. I have chimed in on this thread once before and been an avid reader. 

As someone who worked healthcare her entire adult life, when it was clear that we could waste no more time to see a doctor about hubby's ED, rather than choose an endocrinologist , I opted for the urologist, since they work with the penis and prostrate at a much higher level than do endicrinologists. They do the same testing, examination but tend to be easier to really"talk" about issues with such as what ED is doing to a marriage.

My hubby's T and freeT levels were almost not countable. BUT because at the SAME visit, the doctor was concerned about his Prostate numbers ( they are VERY thorough) he held off on treating. He did biopsies of the prostate and indeed DID find a non- agressive cancer. However, if he were to give hubby T replacement, the cancer would spread. Add that to the fact that he'd had a heart bypass (all genetic) at age 45, his ED was WAY past pills by that time. We tried the inserts into the urethra, the pumps, and the shots. 

He is not a candidate for an implant as it would open him up too close to the prostate and might give the cancer which has stayed quiet, a life of it's own. He cannot have it removed because his heart is too weak for surgery. The only other surgery he hopefully might have one day is a heart transplant. He was put on the list this year. Because my hubby waited and put it off too long before going for help because he was sick of doctors", the last time we made love was 2000. And I was 46 years old. 

I urge you NOT to put this off too long. I feel for you as I have been through it all. Your hubby may not like blood tests or doctors, but what if he waits SO long that a surgical implant is needed? We never in our wildest dreams thought that could be in our future (if it could be done) either.

I went through- and still do- all the emotions you do, plus some. A wife never recovers from not being made love to, along with a hubby that has zero libido. It hurts and it hurts bad. It makes one feel like a non- person who is invisible. I haven't felt like a woman in so long I can't even tell you. It ruins marriages and turns you into roomates.

Life has a way of sneaking up on people when they least expect it. PLEASE don't let it be yours. 
I wish you both well.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

GM,

This was heartbreaking to read. Thank you for sharing your story.




UOTE=GrannyMildew;10801754]Curious Wife- Hello to you. I have chimed in on this thread once before and been an avid reader. 

As someone who worked healthcare her entire adult life, when it was clear that we could waste no more time to see a doctor about hubby's ED, rather than choose an endocrinologist , I opted for the urologist, since they work with the penis and prostrate at a much higher level than do endicrinologists. They do the same testing, examination but tend to be easier to really"talk" about issues with such as what ED is doing to a marriage.

My hubby's T and freeT levels were almost not countable. BUT because at the SAME visit, the doctor was concerned about his Prostate numbers ( they are VERY thorough) he held off on treating. He did biopsies of the prostate and indeed DID find a non- agressive cancer. However, if he were to give hubby T replacement, the cancer would spread. Add that to the fact that he'd had a heart bypass (all genetic) at age 45, his ED was WAY past pills by that time. We tried the inserts into the urethra, the pumps, and the shots. 

He is not a candidate for an implant as it would open him up too close to the prostate and might give the cancer which has stayed quiet, a life of it's own. He cannot have it removed because his heart is too weak for surgery. The only other surgery he hopefully might have one day is a heart transplant. He was put on the list this year. Because my hubby waited and put it off too long before going for help because he was sick of doctors", the last time we made love was 2000. And I was 46 years old. 

I urge you NOT to put this off too long. I feel for you as I have been through it all. Your hubby may not like blood tests or doctors, but what if he waits SO long that a surgical implant is needed? We never in our wildest dreams thought that could be in our future (if it could be done) either.

I went through- and still do- all the emotions you do, plus some. A wife never recovers from not being made love to, along with a hubby that has zero libido. It hurts and it hurts bad. It makes one feel like a non- person who is invisible. I haven't felt like a woman in so long I can't even tell you. It ruins marriages and turns you into roomates.

Life has a way of sneaking up on people when they least expect it. PLEASE don't let it be yours. 
I wish you both well.[/QUOTE]


----------



## GrannyMildew

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MEM11363, Aw shucks... You made me blush, and at my age it isn't easy to do! Thank you for your kind words, but I have felt so much of myself in Curious Wife,that I just had to offer her some life experience and "wisdom". Thank you again,and all the best to you. GrannyMildew


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



GrannyMildew said:


> ...
> A wife never recovers from not being made love to, along with a hubby that has zero libido. It hurts and it hurts bad. It makes one feel like a non- person who is invisible. I haven't felt like a woman in so long I can't even tell you. It ruins marriages and turns you into roomates.
> 
> Life has a way of sneaking up on people when they least expect it. PLEASE don't let it be yours.
> I wish you both well.


All so beautifully written!!!

Luckily my wife and I are not as badly libido-mismatched as so many. We certainly do have differences about sex (too little) and money (spending too much), but the times I get the most upset are when I feel she just won't "count her blessings," even though we've had some hardships, and seen many around us suffering terrible loses. Clearly you've had hard stuff going on, and it sounds like you've grown from it. I wish so many people didn't have to be hit over the head so hard, before they learned to count their blessings.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So sorry for your situation Granny.


----------



## Kari

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The book I recommended Testosterone for Life explains that low T can be associated with prostate cancer so your H should be checked for that before he is prescribed any hormones or drugs, CW. Also he may have a benign tumor on his pituitary which they should check for. Disliking doctors and tests should not be an excuse for ignoring health and marriage problems.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

GM,

Here's the thing I'm trying to get our younger members of TAM to understand. 

When you are young and healthy, you shouldn't waste those years. 

Because one day you wake up - and something major is broken. For us it was M2 having a chronic condition that makes intercourse painful. 

Just like your situation, there are compounding factors. She had a heart attack 2 years ago. So we just work around it. 

That said, I'm not bitter or resentful because we had 20 plus years of a terrific sex life. If it wasn't for that I would be bitter and resentful.....





GrannyMildew said:


> Curious Wife- Hello to you. I have chimed in on this thread once before and been an avid reader.
> 
> As someone who worked healthcare her entire adult life, when it was clear that we could waste no more time to see a doctor about hubby's ED, rather than choose an endocrinologist , I opted for the urologist, since they work with the penis and prostrate at a much higher level than do endicrinologists. They do the same testing, examination but tend to be easier to really"talk" about issues with such as what ED is doing to a marriage.
> 
> My hubby's T and freeT levels were almost not countable. BUT because at the SAME visit, the doctor was concerned about his Prostate numbers ( they are VERY thorough) he held off on treating. He did biopsies of the prostate and indeed DID find a non- agressive cancer. However, if he were to give hubby T replacement, the cancer would spread. Add that to the fact that he'd had a heart bypass (all genetic) at age 45, his ED was WAY past pills by that time. We tried the inserts into the urethra, the pumps, and the shots.
> 
> He is not a candidate for an implant as it would open him up too close to the prostate and might give the cancer which has stayed quiet, a life of it's own. He cannot have it removed because his heart is too weak for surgery. The only other surgery he hopefully might have one day is a heart transplant. He was put on the list this year. Because my hubby waited and put it off too long before going for help because he was sick of doctors", the last time we made love was 2000. And I was 46 years old.
> 
> I urge you NOT to put this off too long. I feel for you as I have been through it all. Your hubby may not like blood tests or doctors, but what if he waits SO long that a surgical implant is needed? We never in our wildest dreams thought that could be in our future (if it could be done) either.
> 
> I went through- and still do- all the emotions you do, plus some. A wife never recovers from not being made love to, along with a hubby that has zero libido. It hurts and it hurts bad. It makes one feel like a non- person who is invisible. I haven't felt like a woman in so long I can't even tell you. It ruins marriages and turns you into roomates.
> 
> Life has a way of sneaking up on people when they least expect it. PLEASE don't let it be yours.
> I wish you both well.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is still trying, and still initiating every couple days. He still cares about my orgasm.


I just want to say for the record (right or wrong) that I RARELY go into sex with me or my SO thinking about the big "O"...

Is that lame? I don't think so.

So much "pressure" to orgasm just takes all the fun out of it.

We make love frequently. I probably only reach orgasm 75% of the time. And when it happens, its mind-blowing, a sweet surprise!

Same with him. Mostly he always does, but sometimes he doesn't, and then it becomes all about him pleasuring ME. And that's ok too.

I think if you go into sex with ALL this pressure that EVERY time EVERYONE has to reach the big "O" it just kills it.

Sometimes he POUNDS my brains out; I don't orgasm, but he sure does, and it is a SUPREMELY rewarding experience.

The next time, it's all about ME, and him pleasuring me.

It just shouldn't be so much work, where everyone has to reach the big "O" or it's considered a failure.

Just watching him do the things he does to me and to my body is pleasure enough sometimes.

It's a balance.

Intercourse alone, with or without an orgasm, is an amazingly bonding experience. We don't put any pressure on each other in the bedroom because we always KNOW that the next orgasm is right around the corner. H*ll, maybe even 15 minutes after we just "finished." SO has been known to strip me a few minutes later in front of the nightly news if he thinks I haven't had "enough." That's what is meant by "natural" and not "forced."

CW, you *may* be contributing to the problem because he feels like a failure if you don't get off... 

Stop worrying about orgasming... relax and enjoy it. The orgasm will come naturally when you relax and let go. Not after he's rubbing you for 45 minutes (and you're in pain) just to cross the finish line... the goal posts are always changing in a fluid sex life ...

I would rather have LOTS of immensely gratifying sex (with or without an orgasm) then drudgery that results in everyone trying every trick in the book, frustrated, failing. Sex should be beautiful, gratifying, and satisfying, not a chore...


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

LOL Clam, you are a mind reader....

I was reading the first half of your post and thinking this same thought before I got to it in your post. 



> We don't put any pressure on each other in the bedroom because we always KNOW that the next orgasm is right around the corner. H*ll, maybe even 15 minutes after we just "finished."


I said this to someone almost word for word last night while having a discussion about the difference between HD/HD and HD/LD sex. There is no pressure on either side during any given session because the next session is just minutes or hours away. 

Happy gets it. :smthumbup:


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

GM,

And I'm glad I made you blush 






MEM11363 said:


> GM,
> 
> This was heartbreaking to read. Thank you for sharing your story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UOTE=GrannyMildew;10801754]Curious Wife- Hello to you. I have chimed in on this thread once before and been an avid reader.
> 
> As someone who worked healthcare her entire adult life, when it was clear that we could waste no more time to see a doctor about hubby's ED, rather than choose an endocrinologist , I opted for the urologist, since they work with the penis and prostrate at a much higher level than do endicrinologists. They do the same testing, examination but tend to be easier to really"talk" about issues with such as what ED is doing to a marriage.
> 
> My hubby's T and freeT levels were almost not countable. BUT because at the SAME visit, the doctor was concerned about his Prostate numbers ( they are VERY thorough) he held off on treating. He did biopsies of the prostate and indeed DID find a non- agressive cancer. However, if he were to give hubby T replacement, the cancer would spread. Add that to the fact that he'd had a heart bypass (all genetic) at age 45, his ED was WAY past pills by that time. We tried the inserts into the urethra, the pumps, and the shots.
> 
> He is not a candidate for an implant as it would open him up too close to the prostate and might give the cancer which has stayed quiet, a life of it's own. He cannot have it removed because his heart is too weak for surgery. The only other surgery he hopefully might have one day is a heart transplant. He was put on the list this year. Because my hubby waited and put it off too long before going for help because he was sick of doctors", the last time we made love was 2000. And I was 46 years old.
> 
> I urge you NOT to put this off too long. I feel for you as I have been through it all. Your hubby may not like blood tests or doctors, but what if he waits SO long that a surgical implant is needed? We never in our wildest dreams thought that could be in our future (if it could be done) either.
> 
> I went through- and still do- all the emotions you do, plus some. A wife never recovers from not being made love to, along with a hubby that has zero libido. It hurts and it hurts bad. It makes one feel like a non- person who is invisible. I haven't felt like a woman in so long I can't even tell you. It ruins marriages and turns you into roomates.
> 
> Life has a way of sneaking up on people when they least expect it. PLEASE don't let it be yours.
> I wish you both well.


[/QUOTE]


----------



## GrannyMildew

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MEM11363, I appreciate you sharing the thoughts and difficulties you and your honey have recently endured. I also grinned when you said you were happy making me blush. Doesn't happen often anymore

I too, am often angry, frustrated and curious ( sorry Curious Wife) as to why SO many younger people- and by younger I mean 50 and under, fail to consider that the hubby that they refuse, ignore and treat badly are surprised when his lovemaking abilities don't always last forever. They think they can just push him away- sometimes for 10 ' s of years, and one day when they feel like it, expect it - and him to still be there full force. 

Our urologist tells his patients about the "penis that is unused will eventually be non- functioning". And that is SO true. 

And for wives like myself, who would give EVERYTHING I own just to be made love to one more time, it is hard for me to understand HOW a woman can really love a man, and not want to share their bodies. Such a GIFT that is sadly , in many instances, just thrown away. For what? Is the I Pod or the Smart Phone or computer and Facebook REALLY more important than seeing to it that once the kids are gone, you still love one another, hopefully can want sex and make love and have a best friend in your hubby?

It takes age to see so many things- and also life experiences. The school of hard knocks. I've got quite a few advanced degrees from them, to my dismay.

You and your wife are a couple of the lucky ones who have realized what in this life is TRULY important and WORK to keep it's juices flowing. Sadly though, many people end up divorced, with the kids having to decide whose home to go to this year for the holidays - all because they couldn't find a few hours a week to nurture a relationship that was once wonderful enough to get married.

I try, when I can, to educate, when people are open enough to HEAR- NOT just listen.

I my wildest dreams, I never - when at the tender age of 16 and married my hubby, would've thought both his parents would be dead in their 50"s, and that as the youngest of four boys, he would be the only one afflicted with so many life changing and potential marriage breaking diseases and that at the age of 46, I would have been made love to for the last time ever. As time goes by, it's getting harder and harder to remember in detail that last event. And it breaks my heart.I only wish I could spare others the heartbreak and loss I feel. It eats at your soul to want your hubby so badly.

I wish you and your honey well.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> So much "pressure" to orgasm just takes all the fun out of it.


No I TOTALLY agree!

Remember back. At the beginning of marriage, he did not care about my orgasm in the slightest. He would beg for quickies and blow jobs and I was getting off maybe 10% of the time. And he just didn't even try. He was just being lazy.

Well I put my foot down and said no more. He was going to start making my pleasure a priority too. And I demanded that he TRY to give me an orgasm if I wanted one. I never shamed him if he couldn't get me there, but I wasn't going to just let him use my body to get off and then leave me high and dry every time. I didn't expect him to take that as I HAVE to have one always. 

Fast forward to now. I don't NEED an orgasm every time. I tell him that. I still have fun without, and sometimes I just want a quickie. But he won't have it. He tries to give me one, pretty much every single time now. Even if I protest.

So let me be clear. If he has pressure to give me one, that is on him. I don't pressure him. He pressures me! Because he won't stop until I'm done, unless it takes over and hour and I'm starting to get angry because he won't stop. I've told him over and over that I don't have to have one every single time. But he says it's his "man duty" and blah blah blah. Honestly sometimes getting me to orgasm is just so much work and drama that I just want to be able to have a fun, short, session, without the pressure on ME.

That is why I cried on our trip. Because he was pressuring me to have an orgasm, and I couldn't get there, and I felt like a failure. It is not the other way around.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And now we've taken a turn for the worse. 

A couple days ago, he initiated before I was going somewhere. It was fun at first, but he was having major problems staying erect. More so than ever before. Over and over he went limp and we would revive him, and continue. But stopping frequently was certainly a mood killer, and he was getting frustrated. Again I couldn't get there, and I just wanted to let him finish because it was getting harder and harder to bring him back, but he just got upset and wouldn't quit. 

Eventually we ran out of time because I was getting picked up in 15 minutes, besides the fact that it was hurting quite a bit by now, and I had to _make_ him stop. He was completely limp, and wouldn't even let me try to give him a blow job or anything. He was just angry, and got up, put his clothes on and walked out. 

I laid there and cried for a few minutes then got up and had to get ready to leave. He came back and apologized over and over about how much of a rotten husband he was, and said that ever since we went to the doctor he couldn't get it out of his head. 

I then had to leave all day, and when I got back his friend stayed the night. So no alone time.

Since then there has not been one mention of sex, and actually barely any contact of any kind. 

I am relieved. I honestly do not want to have sex. There is so much pressure and such a bad air around it, it just causes anxiety. It certainly isn't fun. I know if we have sex I will just feel like I have to orgasm or else he will get upset again, and go on a rampage about how stupid he thinks he is. 

I don't know how to handle this. If he initiates and I refuse then he will feel bad. If he initiates and I agree then I things will go badly again and he will feel bad. I'm stuck.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

sometimes 'you' (meaning he) have to hit bottom before you realize you've got a problem and get the motivation you need to do something drastic.

well, it sounds like you're close to bottom. maybe now he will finally get it? his male ego is bruised badly. he's been in denial or teetering for months now. an awaking would be for him to 'suck it up' admit "i've got an issue and i'm going to deal with it; to hell with my ego!" There's help out there, and I'm going to get it to save my marriage (at least the sexual side of it).

It sounds like thing are too raw right now. take a break. forget about sex for a few days or a week or more.

when you're in a batting slump, the harder you to try to swing, the worse it gets.

let things settle. let him ruminate. give him a chance to think about things and get it together. 

he's got to come to a breaking point with himself. it could go either way of course. he could just shut things off and stay in denial but he's got to give himself a chance. right now he's shadow boxing and not hitting a [email protected] thing.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> sometimes 'you' (meaning he) have to hit bottom before you realize you've got a problem and get the motivation you need to do something drastic.
> 
> well, it sounds like you're close to bottom. maybe now he will finally get it? his male ego is bruised badly. he's been in denial or teetering for months now. an awaking would be for him to 'suck it up' admit "i've got an issue and i'm going to deal with it; to hell with my ego!" There's help out there, and I'm going to get it to save my marriage (at least the sexual side of it).
> 
> It sounds like thing are too raw right now. take a break. forget about sex for a few days or a week or more.
> 
> when you're in a batting slump, the harder you to try to swing, the worse it gets.
> 
> let things settle. let him ruminate. give him a chance to think about things and get it together.
> 
> he's got to come to a breaking point with himself. it could go either way of course. he could just shut things off and stay in denial but he's got to give himself a chance. right now he's shadow boxing and not hitting a [email protected] thing.


:iagree:

We can't just keep going in circles like this. I hope this will be the awakening he needs to seek help.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

sometimes it takes 10 circles to to break out and start walking straight.

it's illogical, but human nature is when we have a problem, just try harder and harder, when the answer is really to step back, reassess, get the emotions out of the way and figure out the right course of action


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And now we've taken a turn for the worse.
> 
> A couple days ago, he initiated before I was going somewhere. It was fun at first, but he was having major problems staying erect. More so than ever before. Over and over he went limp and we would revive him, and continue. But stopping frequently was certainly a mood killer, and he was getting frustrated. Again I couldn't get there, and I just wanted to let him finish because it was getting harder and harder to bring him back, but he just got upset and wouldn't quit.
> 
> Eventually we ran out of time because I was getting picked up in 15 minutes, besides the fact that it was hurting quite a bit by now, and I had to _make_ him stop. He was completely limp, and wouldn't even let me try to give him a blow job or anything. He was just angry, and got up, put his clothes on and walked out.
> 
> I laid there and cried for a few minutes then got up and had to get ready to leave. He came back and apologized over and over about how much of a rotten husband he was, and said that ever since we went to the doctor he couldn't get it out of his head.
> 
> I then had to leave all day, and when I got back his friend stayed the night. So no alone time.
> 
> Since then there has not been one mention of sex, and actually barely any contact of any kind.
> 
> I am relieved. I honestly do not want to have sex. There is so much pressure and such a bad air around it, it just causes anxiety. It certainly isn't fun. I know if we have sex I will just feel like I have to orgasm or else he will get upset again, and go on a rampage about how stupid he thinks he is.
> 
> I don't know how to handle this. If he initiates and I refuse then he will feel bad. If he initiates and I agree then I things will go badly again and he will feel bad. I'm stuck.


Sounds really bad. I am so sorry.

This really puts you in a tough spot. It is even worse, because if you don't initiate like you normally do, then he will start to feel even worse.

He needs to know how much you are willing to stick by him at this time. How far you will go and understand his pain and anger. If he understands how committed you are at this point, he may be willing to seek help with you by his side.

I am just hoping that he will realize that nothing he can do will fix this and he needs to get help. Not only for the two of you, but for himself too. Feeling this way has got to be hard on him, and certainly makes him feel inadequate.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks fightforher.

I just honestly don't know how to support him at this point.

I'm not sure what would be the best thing to do.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks fightforher.
> 
> *I just honestly don't know how to support him at this point.*
> 
> I'm not sure what would be the best thing to do.


Be patient. I am sure this is hard for him. Suddenly discovering that his body can't perform like the body that you deserve. That he is unable to give the person he loves the most, the gift they deserve. It has got to hurt. Not unlike the time he said "your not very sexy." Only differences is that you did absolutely nothing wrong. And you need to remember that you have not done anything wrong.

Give him support and time. There is a good chance that after he works through the hurt and pain, he will want to do something significant. And that will be a good moment.

Be patient, listen to what he says, and be supportive. Don't come across as being pushy. I suspect that he has such anger and pain that will be enough of a push to make something happen.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No I TOTALLY agree!
> 
> Remember back. At the beginning of marriage, he did not care about my orgasm in the slightest. He would beg for quickies and blow jobs and I was getting off maybe 10% of the time. And he just didn't even try. He was just being lazy.
> 
> *Well I put my foot down and said no more. He was going to start making my pleasure a priority too. *And I demanded that he TRY to give me an orgasm if I wanted one. I never shamed him if he couldn't get me there, but I wasn't going to just let him use my body to get off and then leave me high and dry every time.


CW... this may be an important point. I can't remember... was he having ED problems (going limp halfway through) *BEFORE *you ever brought up HIM satisfying YOU too -- demanding that you have orgasms too? Instead of the "quickies" and BJs he kept asking for?

I honestly can't remember and couldn't find the answer in the old posts.

If he was fine (erection-wise) before you demanded him not being a selfish lover, then a lot of this may be psychological.

If he was still going limp then, then I agree it is an ED/hormone/personality issue.

*P.S. How long have you actually been married? And how long have you been together? If I recall, neither of you had sexual partners before you were married? Please clarify. *


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

When in doubt as to what to do, as hard as it might be, tell the truth. 

In your situation the truth might sound something like this:

Until you get your T levels treated, having sex is actually worse than not having sex. 

So I won't hold it against you, if we take a break from sex as long as you get to the endocrinologist as quickly as you can.....

-------
He IS going to argue, at least a little bit. Be prepared. When he finishes talking....

CW: I love you enough to take all this pressure off you. And that's ok as long as you love ME enough to get treated. 



QUOTE=TheCuriousWife;10839890]Thanks fightforher.

I just honestly don't know how to support him at this point.

I'm not sure what would be the best thing to do.[/QUOTE]


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> CW... this may be an important point. I can't remember... was he having ED problems (going limp halfway through) *BEFORE *you ever brought up satisfying YOU too -- demanding that you have orgasms too?
> 
> I honestly can't remember and couldn't find the answer in the old posts.
> 
> If he was fine (erection-wise) before you demanded him not being a selfish lover, then a lot of this may be psychological.
> 
> If he was still going limp then, then I agree it is an ED/hormone/personality issue.
> 
> *P.S. How long have you actually been married? And how long have you been together? If I recall, neither of you had sexual partners before you were married? Please clarify. *



Yes he was going limp before. He started going limp during our honeymoon, actually the 2nd day. I didn't start making myself a priority until months later. 

It wasn't slightly as often. Just because it was 5 minute or less quickies where he pounded away until he was done. 

We have been married 2 years now. And we have been a couple for nearly 7. We did not have sex until we were married.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> When in doubt as to what to do, as hard as it might be, tell the truth.
> 
> In your situation the truth might sound something like this:
> 
> Until you get your T levels treated, having sex is actually worse than not having sex.
> 
> So I won't hold it against you, if we take a break from sex as long as you get to the endocrinologist as quickly as you can.....
> 
> -------
> He IS going to argue, at least a little bit. Be prepared. When he finishes talking....
> 
> CW: I love you enough to take all this pressure off you. And that's ok as long as you love ME enough to get treated.



This seems like a good plan. The only thing I see as a problem is that he is blaming the trip to the doctors for his recent ED problems. So I'm sure he is going to say that going to the doctor again will just make it worse. Sigh. 

I'll stand firm.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

Sometimes less is more. In this case, stick with less. 

CW: Go to the endocrinologist, take the testosterone supplements, if AfTER you do that, you are still struggling, we will talk about what our next step should be. 

For now, I accept that the doctor appointment didn't help you. But we are NOT giving up in the middle of the process. We are going to proceed to completion and see what happens. And completion means T supplements that bring you to T levels consistent with a 30 year old, not an 80 year old. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> This seems like a good plan. The only thing I see as a problem is that he is blaming the trip to the doctors for his recent ED problems. So I'm sure he is going to say that going to the doctor again will just make it worse. Sigh.
> 
> I'll stand firm.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW...

I must admit, I have never taken time to read all of your other threads. You have twenty-four other threads besides this one, (I realize you consolidated it all into one) but sadly they are all much the same as this one.

After reading through them, here are some points in your other threads that stand out to me:


You love to kiss, but you don't particularly like kissing your husband; you say he slobbers all over you when he kisses, you hear him slobbering and slurping (especially "down there") and it's a major turnoff

Your privates get very sore from him over-rubbing... this is a major turnoff for you

In your words, you're "not really social" (preferring to read, use computers, hang out with animals, don't like sports and parties) while your husband is COMPLETELY social -- loves to hang out with his college buddies, watch sports, spend time with friends; you feel "he is completely bored with you"

Husband tells you sex everyday "is too much work" while you would love it everyday, or multiple times per day

You are always wet "down there" and it turns you AND him off (I have some suggestions for you regarding this issue if you're interested)

Sex after marriage is "not like you thought it would be"; you're always chasing him but he doesn't pursue you

Husband always goes "soft" during love-making

Husband told you in January 2014 he "doesn't find you very sexy"...

Husband doesn't like to give you oral sex

Husband is "very upset" each and every time he can't get you to climax

Husband "pops out" frequently during sex. You try to blame it on your tight v*gina, but more likely it's because he can't maintain an erection

You state that you have mismatched drives

You state that you have "awkward sex"

You also say that you were together FIVE YEARS before you ever had sex together (married for 2 years, sex only happened after marriage). I can respect your reasons for waiting (religious, youth, or whatever) but I can tell you that this is highly unusual for a young, in-love couple to wait that long. I'm not trying to be critical, just pointing out a fact. Would you buy a car without test driving it? Would you buy property without doing due diligence? Maybe it's just a difference of values, but "Let the buyer beware..."

When you take this into its totality, I think you two are a sexual mismatch but you didn't find this out until after you were married 

I think this thread is actually about WAY more than ED, low testosterone, low-drive, etc.

The two of you have been together since you were VERY young. I realize you love him, but I now suspect this thread is MUCH more about co-dependency and unhealthy boundaries than it is sexual problems on his end. 

With different partners, you both would probably be ecstatic.

I wish you both the very best...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Often it takes more persistence to get the answers and help you need. I am not at all surprised that one trip to the Dr. office did not fix everything.

Personally, I think he needs a moment of time to consider his situation, and his options. You can let him know how important he is to you, and how important it is to have a full relationship with him that involves what married people do. But I think putting pressure on him is going to make him feel more like a failure than strong enough to get help.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think that he needs to have a bit of time to come to grips with the fact that he has a real problem, and that he needs to actually ask for help.

(when I say time, I am talking a few days, or perhaps even a week or two. But nothing more than two weeks. Else he might start to ignore it and think that it is acceptable - just the luck of the draw. Which is not good.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I totally agree with fightforher. Give him some time to come to grips with it but not too much. You could tell him you love him and understand things aren't working right now and say you would like to take a couple of weeks off deciding what to do next and set a date to talk on the 14th or something like that. This way he doesn't feel overly pressured but he does know he needs to decide not just ignore. Tell him you still need affection during this time ( which will also keep it on his mind more  )


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> This upsets me. I got the same cards and letters for years and years with the same lame excuses. That message to you is meant to assuage your husband of his guilt and lay it back in your lap. In other words, its a passive aggressive way to guilt you into never leaving.
> 
> And if he really was "sorry" about his "issues" and how it affects you, he would move and heaven and earth to fix them. I'm sorry, but he simply is unwilling to "man up" and take charge of HIS health.
> 
> 
> 
> You *should* say this! CW, your anniversary trip was ridiculous. And now you don't even want to kiss him and are starting to feel a lack of desire for him. This is a slippery slope.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your alternative? To keep suffering in silence while resentment builds?
> 
> At some point, you will draw a line in the sand. I just hope you don't wait too many years to draw it.




Sorry for the late quote/reply, but I want to underscore what HappyAsAClam said, especially the part about assuaging his guilt and putting it back in your lap.



I am afraid that sort of thing can burn up a lifetime, including the sweetest and rarest opportunities for joy and pleasure this life can offer you in these next few decades ahead.



It is easy to fall for it, that game the Other plays: apologizing for what inaction makes possible, while continuing to take no action.



You owe it to yourself and any children you might be postponing having -- intentionally or as a side-effect of keeping you from the one you might some day choose to have a family with -- to call a spade a spade, and not let worthless apologies become the way he buys more time from you, just to fritter away the days.



You deserve action not words. 



Your life is precious.





When I was younger, it never occured to me that "delays" in us getting married and settled would affect how many children we would have, or that I would even care someday. But, when I think about it, and when I think of how old of parents we are, it is not pleasant. One less child, perhaps, and about four years less to spend with the two we have.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This seems like a good plan. The only thing I see as a problem is that he is blaming the trip to the doctors for his recent ED problems. So I'm sure he is going to say that going to the doctor again will just make it worse. Sigh.
> 
> *I'll stand firm*.


Of course you will! You fierce lioness you!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ever heard the term "Beat a Dead Horse"?






happy as a clam said:


> CW...
> 
> I must admit, I have never taken time to read all of your other threads. You have twenty-four other threads besides this one, (I realize you consolidated it all into one) but sadly they are all much the same as this one.
> 
> After reading through them, here are some points in your other threads that stand out to me:
> 
> 
> You love to kiss, but you don't particularly like kissing your husband; you say he slobbers all over you when he kisses, you hear him slobbering and slurping (especially "down there") and it's a major turnoff
> 
> Your privates get very sore from him over-rubbing... this is a major turnoff for you
> 
> In your words, you're "not really social" (preferring to read, use computers, hang out with animals, don't like sports and parties) while your husband is COMPLETELY social -- loves to hang out with his college buddies, watch sports, spend time with friends; you feel "he is completely bored with you"
> 
> Husband tells you sex everyday "is too much work" while you would love it everyday, or multiple times per day
> 
> You are always wet "down there" and it turns you AND him off (I have some suggestions for you regarding this issue if you're interested)
> 
> Sex after marriage is "not like you thought it would be"; you're always chasing him but he doesn't pursue you
> 
> Husband always goes "soft" during love-making
> 
> Husband told you in January 2014 he "doesn't find you very sexy"...
> 
> Husband doesn't like to give you oral sex
> 
> Husband is "very upset" each and every time he can't get you to climax
> 
> Husband "pops out" frequently during sex. You try to blame it on your tight v*gina, but more likely it's because he can't maintain an erection
> 
> You state that you have mismatched drives
> 
> You state that you have "awkward sex"
> 
> You also say that you were together FIVE YEARS before you ever had sex together (married for 2 years, sex only happened after marriage). I can respect your reasons for waiting (religious, youth, or whatever) but I can tell you that this is highly unusual for a young, in-love couple to wait that young. I'm not trying to be critical, just pointing out a fact. Would you buy a car without test driving it? Would you buy property without doing due diligence? Maybe it's just a difference of values, but "Let the buyer beware..."
> 
> When you take this into its totality, I think you two are a sexual mismatch but you didn't find this out until after you were married
> 
> I think this thread is actually about WAY more than ED, low testosterone, low-drive, etc.
> 
> The two of you have been together since you were VERY young. I realize you love him, but I now suspect this thread is MUCH more about co-dependency and unhealthy boundaries than it is sexual problems on his end.
> 
> With different partners, you both would probably be ecstatic.
> 
> I wish you both the very best...


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Ever heard the term "Beat a Dead Horse"?


Absolutely. But sometimes you have to beat that dead horse over and over and over...










Anon... sometimes it takes re-framing something, in its totality, to see the big picture. Sometimes, even OP can lose sight of the over-arching picture... 

Also, I'm guessing there are some following this thread who haven't taken the time to read all twenty-four other threads (or didn't know those threads exist).

I'm rooting for CW... I want her marriage to succeed. I wouldn't wish the circumstances of my marriage (or anything even resembling it) on anyone, especially a young, vibrant, beautiful woman with her whole life ahead of her.

So, beat a dead horse? I wish someone would have beat that horse for me.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"After which we had some AWESOME sex. Including some oral and dirty talk. 

The wait was well worth it. Again I say that he does know what I like and what I want."

you wrote this back on 10/22. let this give you some encouragement during all this turmoil. 

great sex is there waiting for when you together can work this out...........


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> CW...
> 
> I must admit, I have never taken time to read all of your other threads. You have twenty-four other threads besides this one, (I realize you consolidated it all into one) but sadly they are all much the same as this one.
> 
> After reading through them, here are some points in your other threads that stand out to me:
> 
> 
> You love to kiss, but you don't particularly like kissing your husband; you say he slobbers all over you when he kisses, you hear him slobbering and slurping (especially "down there") and it's a major turnoff
> 
> Your privates get very sore from him over-rubbing... this is a major turnoff for you
> 
> In your words, you're "not really social" (preferring to read, use computers, hang out with animals, don't like sports and parties) while your husband is COMPLETELY social -- loves to hang out with his college buddies, watch sports, spend time with friends; you feel "he is completely bored with you"
> 
> Husband tells you sex everyday "is too much work" while you would love it everyday, or multiple times per day
> 
> You are always wet "down there" and it turns you AND him off (I have some suggestions for you regarding this issue if you're interested)
> 
> Sex after marriage is "not like you thought it would be"; you're always chasing him but he doesn't pursue you
> 
> Husband always goes "soft" during love-making
> 
> Husband told you in January 2014 he "doesn't find you very sexy"...
> 
> Husband doesn't like to give you oral sex
> 
> Husband is "very upset" each and every time he can't get you to climax
> 
> Husband "pops out" frequently during sex. You try to blame it on your tight v*gina, but more likely it's because he can't maintain an erection
> 
> You state that you have mismatched drives
> 
> You state that you have "awkward sex"
> 
> You also say that you were together FIVE YEARS before you ever had sex together (married for 2 years, sex only happened after marriage). I can respect your reasons for waiting (religious, youth, or whatever) but I can tell you that this is highly unusual for a young, in-love couple to wait that long. I'm not trying to be critical, just pointing out a fact. Would you buy a car without test driving it? Would you buy property without doing due diligence? Maybe it's just a difference of values, but "Let the buyer beware..."
> 
> When you take this into its totality, I think you two are a sexual mismatch but you didn't find this out until after you were married
> 
> I think this thread is actually about WAY more than ED, low testosterone, low-drive, etc.
> 
> The two of you have been together since you were VERY young. I realize you love him, but I now suspect this thread is MUCH more about co-dependency and unhealthy boundaries than it is sexual problems on his end.
> 
> With different partners, you both would probably be ecstatic.
> 
> I wish you both the very best...


Your observations are all correct. And actually it is funny that you mention my other threads, because just yesterday I had decided to start going through and purging all the old ones. 

We had our reasons for waiting until marriage, and what is done is done. 

I agree that we are a sexual mismatch, and that we would probably both be happier with different partners. But part of me is not willing to let go of the man I fell in love with 7 years ago, and I still hold to the fact that besides sex our relationship is great.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This seems like a good plan. The only thing I see as a problem is that he is blaming the trip to the doctors for his recent ED problems. So I'm sure he is going to say that going to the doctor again will just make it worse. Sigh.
> 
> *I'll stand firm.*


I see what you did there.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Absolutely. But sometimes you have to beat that dead horse over and over and over...
> 
> 
> Anon... sometimes it takes re-framing something, in its totality, to see the big picture. Sometimes, even OP can lose sight of the over-arching picture...
> 
> Also, I'm guessing there are some following this thread who haven't taken the time to read all twenty-four other threads (or didn't know those threads exist).
> 
> I'm rooting for CW...* I want her marriage to succeed.* I wouldn't wish the circumstances of my marriage (or anything even resembling it) on anyone, especially a young, vibrant, beautiful woman with her whole life ahead of her.
> 
> So, beat a dead horse? I wish someone would have beat that horse for me.



I get the impression you're rooting for her to leave him and find another man since that tends to be your "go to" advice.

You once posted angrily in this thread because your posts in her other thread were being ignored. In this thread you have suggested she leave a few times. Also in this thread you have stated that since she refused to leave him you were leaving this thread.

The point I am trying to make is that while your idea to divorce may ultimately be what happens she is FAR from that point. Continuing to make your case for divorce is ...just not helpful.

TCW still feels hopeful and really, that's the only thing that matters. She's not stupid, nor is she wrong. She going to do everything she can to save her marriage and make is a great marriage. We can either support that, or not. You have decided to not. We get it.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*Wow... where to even START?*



Anon Pink said:


> I get the impression you're rooting for her to leave him and find another man since that tends to be your "go to" advice.


Not at all. My only suggestion is that she open her eyes to the reality of her situation.

She just responded to my last post, basically saying I was correct in everything I pointed out. 

FWIW, I don't have "go to" advice. I try to structure my advice for each OP's circumstance. I only share what worked in MY situation in case it might be helpful to the OP. My "go-to" advice is, "To each, his/her own."



Anon Pink said:


> You once posted angrily in this thread because your posts in her other thread were being ignored. In this thread you have suggested she leave a few times. Also in this thread you have stated that since she refused to leave him you were leaving this thread.


Correct. I also apologized to CW profusely. I also sent her a PM apologizing and explaining why this thread really triggers me. I offered to her that I would "opt out" and she told me there was no need to leave.

In MY experience, (and apparently the experience of many TAMers in the same boat) LD partners who have somewhat passive-aggressive tendencies, which he does -- he dumps HIS issues back on CW without attempting to resolve his OWN issues -- the outlook is not good on ever getting them to really "get it" and/or make the necessary changes for a successful relationship.



Anon Pink said:


> The point I am trying to make is that while your idea to divorce may ultimately be what happens she is FAR from that point. Continuing to make your case for divorce *is ...just not helpful.*


That is *your opinion.* Perhaps it is (or isn't) hers... yet.

Your continuing to coddle OP really isn't "helpful" at all either... Coddling muddies up the water and gives false hope.



Anon Pink said:


> TCW still feels hopeful and really, that's the only thing that matters. *She's not stupid, nor is she wrong.* She going to do everything she can to save her marriage and make is a great marriage. We can either support that, or not. You have decided to not. We get it.


I have never implied CW is stupid or wrong. Quite the contrary.

I have said in multiple posts that I am rooting for CW and for her marriage. Despite what you may think, I am NOT pro-divorce. That's why I hung in there for 20 years.

In the end, reality is a b*tch to come to terms with sometimes.

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I don't see any advantage to cheering someone on to stay when their needs aren't being met at all. Perhaps you do.

Sometimes enthusiastic support = coddling.

*sigh*


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You guys all have wonderful advice. I will continue to explain to him how serious this is to me, and I will give him a short time frame to sort through his feelings, then we will hit this head on. 

Last night he wanted to have sex to "redeem" his self. That is not how I want sex. Us both feeling like we have to do good or else we fail. I explained that sex has lost the fun aspect and why and how it stresses me out. I told him I would have sex, but I did not want to feel pressured to perform. He got upset and refused and pouted so I got up and went to read. About an hour or so later, he came in and said okay. So we had a fun little quickie in the shower.

I surely don't want to go back to only having quickies all the time. But I think taking the pressure off was exactly what I needed right now, and him too.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think a lot of us who lived this life and couldn't turn the corner are a little jaded. We are HAPPY now and when we look back we see all the years we could have been happy if we had realized earlier we weren't going to win and moved on. 25-38. That's the years of my life spent thinking if I could just find the thing that turned her on, if I could just be good enough in bed, if my penis was bigger.... you get the idea. I still doubt myself and my penis  It causes me to compare myself to my new wife's exes very often. A lot more often than I ever did with any other woman. This life will damage her more than she knows. It will make subsequent relationships (if she ends up D'ing) more difficult and she's going to need a forklift for all the baggage this marriage is going to cause her. It's not that we WANT her to D, we really don't think anything else works. At least not to a level that is true happiness.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> The point I am trying to make is that while your idea to divorce may ultimately be what happens she is FAR from that point. Continuing to make your case for divorce is ...just not helpful.


Agreed. Although we may end up divorced, It is definitely not my goal, and not what I am striving for. 

So since I'm not ready to throw in the towel, I'd prefer to continue working to improve my marriage, and seek answers. Not just say, "well this stinks and it's not going to get better so I'll just sit here calmly and let it all go to the crapper, since I'll probably end of divorced anyway..." 

That's not how I roll. I'll be fighting tooth and nail to the very end.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That's not how I roll. I'll be fighting tooth and nail to the very end.


Hooray!

I completely support your fighting tooth and nail to the very end (not that my opinion really matters )

God knows I fought for my marriage for 20 years.

Multiple rounds of marriage counseling, individual counseling, every kind of counseling! Plus, reading books, endless discussions with hubs, trying out new things, setting goals, spending lots of time together, etc.

I sincerely hope you both make it. 

Despite Anon Pink's comments, I am NOT pro-divorce. I would love nothing more than to see every marriage succeed. But life doesn't always work out that way.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You guys all have wonderful advice. I will continue to explain to him how serious this is to me, and *I will give him a short time frame to sort through his feelings, then we will hit this head on*.
> 
> Last night he wanted to have sex to "redeem" his self. That is not how I want sex. Us both feeling like we have to do good or else we fail. I explained that sex has lost the fun aspect and why and how it stresses me out. I told him I would have sex, but I did not want to feel pressured to perform. He got upset and refused and pouted so I got up and went to read. About an hour or so later, he came in and said okay. So we had a fun little quickie in the shower.
> 
> I surely don't want to go back to only having quickies all the time. But I think taking the pressure off was exactly what I needed right now, and him too.


I think that some of the posters here have seen this go on for a long time, and they recall how many years they lost thinking that things will get better soon. So it hurts to see you going through the period of time where things are not good, but not without hope. The solution is to make things happen. The posters will be delighted that you are not losing 20 years of your life. And you will be much happier too.

Setup a time frame for things to happen. Then put some pressure on him to "poop or get off the pot." Basically, he MUST take action, and go through what he finds unpleasant in order to make things better. And I believe he will. But you have to make it clear that procrastinating, and hoping that it will go away, or that "this is good enough" is unacceptable to you. He needs to come to terms with the fact that life is full of hard choices, and sometimes taking the risk and experiencing something unpleasant is what it takes.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I think that some of the posters here have seen this go on for a long time, and *they recall how many years they lost thinking that things will get better soon.* So *it hurts to see you going through the period of time where things are not good*, but not without hope. The solution is to make things happen. *The posters will be delighted that you are not losing 20 years of your life. *And you will be much happier too.


^ ^ ^

YES!!! Spot on FFH...

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

Stop allowing him to self medicate with quickies. 

Next time he's having a melt down - you need to do that thing that a real Tigress does. Tell him the truth.

The measure of a man isn't what he does when everything is going good. 

It's what he does when something major goes wrong.....

It's ok to let him feel bad. Because he has the key to making it better.....

Don't take responsibility for his selfish behavior.





TheCuriousWife said:


> Agreed. Although we may end up divorced, It is definitely not my goal, and not what I am striving for.
> 
> So since I'm not ready to throw in the towel, I'd prefer to continue working to improve my marriage, and seek answers. Not just say, "well this stinks and it's not going to get better so I'll just sit here calmly and let it all go to the crapper, since I'll probably end of divorced anyway..."
> 
> That's not how I roll. I'll be fighting tooth and nail to the very end.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know my own male ego well enough that I want to pout when things don't go as planned.

I don't because I have a healthy dose of self control and I know it's selfish. But I feel my ego welling up and want to be passive aggressive some way. 

Mr. MEM is exactly right. A 'real' man isn't the guy who always performs like Don Juan. The 'real' man is the guy that can put aside his ego when needed and do what's right and not pout or misplace blame. He's got a healthy enough ego that can withstand a few failures, or if often then do something about it.

Not calling you're hubby not a 'real' man; it's a process of maturing and we all mature differently and within our own strengths and weaknesses.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> Stop allowing him to self medicate with quickies.
> 
> Next time he's having a melt down - you need to do that thing that a real Tigress does. Tell him the truth.
> 
> The measure of a man isn't what he does when everything is going good.
> 
> It's what he does when something major goes wrong.....
> 
> It's ok to let him feel bad. Because he has the key to making it better.....
> 
> Don't take responsibility for his selfish behavior.


The quickie was for me! I wanted sex, and I didn't want to deal with all the crap that comes along with it. I just needed a good pounding. He did not want the quickie, and begged and pouted against it, but eventually he agreed to do it.

And don't worry. I'm not taking responsibility. I think he is being a big baby. It is is own fault if he is struggling because he won't get help. I feel bad for him, but not that bad. Mostly just irritated.

ETA: And I did tell him the truth. I told him that I did not currently enjoy sex with him because there was too much drama and pressure.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In other news. I've been trying to DIY wax. I'm not very good at it. lol. I've tried and tried and only get about 3 hairs at a time. Ouch. 

I'm determined to figure it out though. I shave daily and I hate it.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> In other news. I've been trying to DIY wax. I'm not very good at it. lol. I've tried and tried and only get about 3 hairs at a time. Ouch.
> 
> I'm determined to figure it out though. I shave daily and I hate it.


:rofl: first time I tried home waxing I didn't put it on right, in a difficult spot. STUPID!!! I couldn't get it off and couldn't get enough of the stuff between my fingers to get a good grip to rip. Had to call my husband for help, it HURT!

Now I get my husband to lend a hand through out the procedure. I stretch everything out hold my breath and he rips. 

See what we go through to be attractive to our mates! A little appreciation would be nice!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> :rofl: first time I tried home waxing I didn't put it on right, in a difficult spot. STUPID!!! I couldn't get it off and couldn't get enough of the stuff between my fingers to get a good grip to rip. Had to call my husband for help, it HURT!
> 
> Now I get my husband to lend a hand through out the procedure. I stretch everything out hold my breath and he rips.
> 
> See what we go through to be attractive to our mates! A little appreciation would be nice!


It's actually not as painful as I expected. But then again I pluck a lot...  But I still get scared every time I rip. No screaming or anything. Just a quick ouch. Husband offered to do it for me. Maybe that would be better.

What do you use Anon? I'm using veet wax strips, and I'm not convinced they are that great. I got tired of trying and trying this morning, and I think I plucked out more hairs than I actually waxed. I'm trying to get a little bit at a time done, and I keep telling myself eventually it will be all gone.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I buy whatever my daughter puts in the basket.


----------



## NewHubs

[TheCuriousWife;10857626] I just needed a good pounding.[/QUOTE

One word: HOT! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well we finally had sex. I wasn't sure how I felt about it, at first. But we had a good time. I'm still not forgetting all our issues though.

He made me breakfast in bed this morning, and nearly burned down the house... lol bless him. Then I got up an hour early with him and we just snuggled and enjoyed each others company. 

Our relationship is such a roller coaster.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

savor the good moments. let them carry you through the disappointments. its' when there is no good moments that you're in real trouble. 

Sounds like he's trying real hard. baby steps.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> savor the good moments. let them carry you through the disappointments. its' when there is no good moments that you're in real trouble.
> 
> Sounds like he's trying real hard. baby steps.


I know it. 

But it gets so frustrating to constantly being going up and down. We will be doing really good, then crash. I just want some stability.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You cannot appreciate the light without the dark....said the owl!


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> You cannot appreciate the light without the dark....said the owl!


QFT


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> :rofl: first time I tried home waxing I didn't put it on right, in a difficult spot. STUPID!!! I couldn't get it off and couldn't get enough of the stuff between my fingers to get a good grip to rip. Had to call my husband for help, it HURT!
> 
> Now I get my husband to lend a hand through out the procedure. I stretch everything out hold my breath and he rips.
> 
> See what we go through to be attractive to our mates! A little appreciation would be nice!


Can I get the two of you to talk my wife into waxing/shaving?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Can I get the two of you to talk my wife into waxing/shaving?


I'll be honest. I decided to give up on the waxing today. I waxed about half, but I've been at it for days, and it just isn't working very well. I'll probably try again next month. 

I do ALWAYS shave though. I feel dirty when I'm hairy and it itches, in fact letting it grow out enough so I could wax it nearly killed me. lol

Have you asked her nicely? What are her reasons?


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My advice... forget waxing!!!! *ugh*

Go for a smoooooooth shave...


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well we finally had sex. I wasn't sure how I felt about it, at first. But we had a good time. I'm still not forgetting all our issues though.
> 
> He made me breakfast in bed this morning, and nearly burned down the house... lol bless him. Then I got up an hour early with him and we just snuggled and enjoyed each others company.
> 
> Our relationship is such a roller coaster.


I am sorry it is a roller coaster. But at least there are good times, snuggling and yes sex.

Give him a little more time, and then begin the pressure to go see a specialist.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'll be honest. I decided to give up on the waxing today. I waxed about half, but I've been at it for days, and it just isn't working very well. I'll probably try again next month.
> 
> I do ALWAYS shave though. I feel dirty when I'm hairy and it itches, in fact letting it grow out enough so I could wax it nearly killed me. lol
> 
> *Have you asked her nicely? What are her reasons?*


Sorry CW. I don't want to thread jack so I'll not go into it here.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree that we are a sexual mismatch, and that we would probably both be happier with different partners. But part of me is not willing to let go of the man I fell in love with 7 years ago, and I still hold to the fact that besides sex our relationship is great.



Okay but... "besides sex [your] relationship is"... just a friendship.

And a somewhat stressed friendship, at that (due to the sexual incompatibility issues). 

Its the sexual bond that distinguishes the marital relationship as being unique from all other close relationships in your life. It really is what makes a marriage a marriage, as opposed to a friendship or a roommates scenario.

Just sayin'.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I really don't believe sex is the only thing different between a married couple and just friends. We are building a life together with or without sex. If my husband suddenly couldn't have sex with me it wouldn't make him any less my husband.


----------



## Livvie

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Can I get the two of you to talk my wife into waxing/shaving?


Hi...I had a thought. Is she not waxing etc. because her skin can't handle it? I have to settle for trimming. Waxing, and even shaving ruin my skin. I get ingrown hairs from just shaving. It's a nightmare. Maybe there is a skin sensitivity going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I really don't believe sex is the only thing different between a married couple and just friends. We are building a life together with or without sex. If my husband suddenly couldn't have sex with me it wouldn't make him any less my husband.


I agree. There are things like building a life together, sharing finances, and offering themselves to each other at a deep level.

However in Curious case, the sex issues was from day one. Makes it hard to sit back and take no action and accept it. And it also makes other posters, who have wasted years on bad married sex, want to encourage Curious to bail while she has only invested a few years. Personally, I vote for Curious to try to take whatever action is necessary to get he H off the couch watching video games, go to the specialist, and start making Curious feel desired and wanted so badly that it hurts him to be away for a day.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well it's still up and down day to day.

Husband gets SAD during the winter, and it's already setting in. He gets bored, depressed, tired, and pouty.

It is already dark by the time he gets home from work, and he can't stand being trapped in the house. 

We were trying to brainstorm ideas on how to help. I voted we get some giant bright lights. lol. He might try getting up at dawn, and just going to bed early so that way he gets optimal sunlight. 

It's only November... It's going to be a long winter.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think I will try to talk him into buying one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/NatureBright-...herapy/dp/B000W8Y7FY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## FrenchFry

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ahh, SAD. I have it way bad. I also recommend high doses of Vitamin D along with the full spectrum lights and getting as much sun and exercise as possible.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



FrenchFry said:


> Ahh, SAD. I have it way bad. I also recommend high doses of Vitamin D along with the full spectrum lights and getting as much sun and exercise as possible.


Do you just buy full spectrum bulbs and use them in your normal lamps and such, or do you have a light box like I posted?


----------



## FrenchFry

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have the full spectrum bulbs in the rooms I spend the most time in and a box in my room as well to double up in the morning. Kitchen and family room and my office has a little lamp since I have no windows. 

The box light is a handy makeup light, I know not so useful for husbands but it advantageous for everyone.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think I will try to talk him into buying one of these.
> 
> Amazon.com: NatureBright SunTouch Plus Light and Ion Therapy Lamp: Health & Personal Care


If you have a Hobby Lobby nearby they have one for about $40 so with the 40% of coupon we paid $24. We put it by the bed and when he wakes up (before the sun) he will turn it on for a bit while he lays there waking up. Sometimes he will read by it for a few after work. It seems to be helping.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> If you have a Hobby Lobby nearby they have one for about $40 so with the 40% of coupon we paid $24. We put it by the bed and when he wakes up (before the sun) he will turn it on for a bit while he lays there waking up. Sometimes he will read by it for a few after work. It seems to be helping.


I love hobby lobby.

But what in the world do they have a light box for? lol

I'm trying to find it on their website and not having much luck.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Vit D is extremely important. Lights don't cut it for me.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I love hobby lobby.
> 
> But what in the world do they have a light box for? lol
> 
> I'm trying to find it on their website and not having much luck.


We were suprised ourselves. It is with their other work lights at both the Hobby Lobbys near us and is only available at this time of year. Go get one, it is working beautifully for us.:smthumbup:



T&T said:


> Vit D is extremely important. Lights don't cut it for me.


We do both cause neither one cuts it by itself for us. Hubby takes 15,000 iu vitamin d3 in the winter months and after a few years has finally gotten up to a reasonable level (per blood test). I take 10,000 and the older kids take around the same cause their levels were really low after their big growth spurts. They were both in the single digits when 50-90 is a better range. We are in WA state less than 100 miles from the Canadian border so we are awefully far north.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Arg. 

I'm working 6, 12hour days straight and I'm exhausted. Husband surprised me nicely by cleaning the house and washing all the dishes today while I was gone. I was very impressed.

Then he wanted to make out. Sure, we were having fun, and then it happens... "Hey. Since I cleaned the house, can I get a blow job?"

I immediately stopped and pulled away from him. He got upset and tried to guilt me into it. It made me angry that the entire thing was a ploy. I told him that I felt like he only cleaned the house and wanted to kiss and be intimate with me, so he could butter me up and get a blow job. He gets defensive, gets up and storms out. 

He left, and now I'm getting ready to head back to work. (I had a short dinner break) 

We haven't kissed all week, and it ticks me off so bad that he finally tries to be intimate and it's only to get something from me.  He is mad because he feels like he deserves one.

Am I in the wrong? Or is he just back to his spoiled selfish ways?

Last month during my period he pulled the same crap. We started making out, and then he asked. I told him no, and he got angry and started whining, and I hesitantly gave in.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So, 1 last month and he asked today? You may be a bit sensitive here, maybe not but think about it.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> "Hey. Since I cleaned the house, can I get a blow job?" .  He is mad because he feels like he deserves one.
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> .


 

He deserves a blow job because he cleaned the house? So he wants you to reward him with a blow job and punish him by withholding?




TheCuriousWife said:


> Am I in the wrong? Or is he just back to his spoiled selfish ways?
> 
> .



You're not wrong. Why isn't he worrying about fixing his ED? He should worry about that and not about getting a bj. 

He is selfish


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes, to answer your question, he's back to his spoiled, selfish ways. 

Many are good at temporary change. Permanent change is a lot more difficult.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So he can never ask and she can press for sex several times a week. Not saying his thinking was right, it was not. But I think he's getting smashed over the head pretty regularly.


----------



## Miss Independent

*LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> So he can never ask and she can press for sex several times a week. Not saying his thinking was right, it was not. But I think he's getting smashed over the head pretty regularly.



Did you read her entire thread?


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



spinsterdurga said:


> Did you read her entire thread?


Yes, it has been going for a year and a half. A little grace from both sides from time to time might help.


----------



## fightforher

TheCuriousWife said:


> Arg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm working 6, 12hour days straight and I'm exhausted. Husband surprised me nicely by cleaning the house and washing all the dishes today while I was gone. I was very impressed.
> 
> Then he wanted to make out. Sure, we were having fun, and then it happens... "Hey. Since I cleaned the house, can I get a blow job?"
> 
> I immediately stopped and pulled away from him. He got upset and tried to guilt me into it. It made me angry that the entire thing was a ploy. I told him that I felt like he only cleaned the house and wanted to kiss and be intimate with me, so he could butter me up and get a blow job. He gets defensive, gets up and storms out.
> 
> He left, and now I'm getting ready to head back to work. (I had a short dinner break)
> 
> We haven't kissed all week, and it ticks me off so bad that he finally tries to be intimate and it's only to get something from me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is mad because he feels like he deserves one.
> 
> Am I in the wrong? Or is he just back to his spoiled selfish ways?
> 
> Last month during my period he pulled the same crap. We started making out, and then he asked. I told him no, and he got angry and started whining, and I hesitantly gave in.



You both reacted poorly in my view of the situation. For one, when he asked for a BJ you reacted by pulling back. You could have simply stated "No, I just want to make out for a little while." That way you would be turning the BJ down, but still offering to be close and loving too him.

And he storming out and getting defensive is not a good reaction either. Running away was not very adult either.

And as for "I clean the house so I deserve a BJ attitude" is absolutely wrong. I don't agree with doing favors for sex, even if it is with your spouse. First off, he should have had the frame of mind that he is cleaning the house for the both of you. He gets a cleaner house and so do you. That is good. He should not expect anything in return. He should be doing the cleaning because he wants to. Not as a chore to get paid.

On the other side of the fence, you should be giving him a BJ because you want to. Not because you got a clean house. Or even because you think it has been enough time since the last one. Sex is far better when you believe that your partner is giving you pleasure because they want to and it pleasures them. Of all people, you should know this. He should desire you, and make passionate love to you. And in turn you should desire him and give him passionate love as well as a BJ.

So, you both overreacted to the situation. You both pulled away. You both failed to get what you wanted.

Last month he got angry when you told him NO. And you gave in. Almost as if you were forced to do something you did not want to. This is not good either. No means NO and he should respect that. If he ask why, you can tell him how you feel about giving him a BJ right now.

I am guessing that a lot of your resistance to giving him a BJ is that you don't want to fall back into that trap where you were a while back. Giving without receiving. And if he does not go to the specialist it seems that is where you are headed .. back to the giving BJ without much in return.

I think you need to explain how you feel - the concern and the fear of going back with no change. And that you are hurt that he is not being proactive to make changes.

One thing that is hard to understand is how much better life can be through chemistry. I just had an experience with a side effect of some medication, and let me tell you, it was truly amazing. I would not have believe that such a tiny amount of medication could make such a huge change. Anyhow, he needs a push to get involved in trying some chemistry in his body, and once things are better, he will wonder why he did not do this earlier. Well, at least that is what I am rooting for.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You are absolutely right fightforher. 

It's not that I mind giving him blow jobs. It's just, that I'm afraid to fall back into the old ways. It's still a touchy subject with me, and although I miss giving them, there is a part of me that still gets upset every single time he asks for one. It's like I get defensive, and it's just a bad trigger for me. 

Add that to the fact that I've still never gotten an oral orgasm, and the fact that he has still never satisfied me when I was feeling horny and he wasn't, without anything in return, and it just sets my blood boiling. I don't know if we will ever work through that. 

I give him blow jobs for foreplay nearly every time we have sex. It's not like I have an aversion to his penis. I just don't finish him that way. BUT I do offer that he can finish that way anytime he wants, after I've been satisfied as well. I just don't do stand alone blow jobs. The mean part of me says, Why should I? I've never gotten one. 

anonmd, I don't press him for sex anymore. I've taken the "I don't care, whatever you want" approach for a while now. Every once in a while I break and will ask, but I'd say 90% of the time now, I let him come to me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

But no worries. All is well again. 

He ended up getting home right after I posted yesterday, and he came with me to work. We have both apologized, and we had some earth shattering make up sex. :smthumbup:

Actually I'm not sure you can call it that... lol. We didn't even make it to PIV. The foreplay was too exciting. 

The one thing I do notice, is that we can turn our bad days around lot quicker now. When we used to have a disagreement about sex, sometime I would stew for over a week or two before we would communicate and work it out. Now we rarely argue for more than a day, before we sit down and talk about it. I'd say that is progress. 

Onwards and upwards.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

you got off (orgasm) from the foreplay? 

very cool!

did he get off too?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> you got off (orgasm) from the foreplay?
> 
> very cool!
> 
> did he get off too?


Both of us.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

how cool is that! (REALLY cool!)

there an up side and a down side to that though.

the upside; you can both get off from macking out and non-piv. 
i don't know that many people that can do that, even though it can still be fantastic. with a previous gf i had i always thought making out was just about as good as great sex, although i never came, it was still fabulous. In all the times I was with her (3 years), the most memorable times we're us making out with passion. the fact that you guys can do is a great way to get off to release the pressure without having to worry about performance. 

the downside; if it is so good, will he use that as an avoidance to delay his treatment?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> how cool is that! (REALLY cool!)
> 
> there an up side and a down side to that though.
> 
> the upside; you can both get off from macking out and non-piv.
> i don't know that many people that can do that, even though it can still be fantastic. with a previous gf i had i always thought making out was just about as good as great sex, although i never came, it was still fabulous. In all the times I was with her (3 years), the most memorable times we're us making out with passion. the fact that you guys can do is a great way to get off to release the pressure without having to worry about performance.
> 
> the downside; if it is so good, will he use that as an avoidance to delay his treatment?


It wasn't just making out. There was lots of hands on action as well. 

But it was the strangest thing. He actually got vocal during his orgasm. It was hilarious though because after we were done, we both looked at each other with surprise. (He is usually super quiet) And I said, "Hey. You sounded like me." Then we both started laughing. 

And yes you are right. I fear that with all the good sex, he will forget and/or use it to deny that we have problems too. And will want to say, "See. I'm just fine. I don't need to go to the doctor."


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you for not caving. I don't understand why it is so hard for some people to understand manipulation tactics are a HUGE turn off!

Curious, you have to tell him that had he been affectionate with you every day, showing his love for you everyday, his buttering up tactics would have worked but not because he buttered you up by cleaning the house, but because you felt loved and wanted every day and not just the day he wanted a blow job! What an idiot!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Also, it is a very good sign that working through problems faster and easier is huge progress. We will always have conflicts with our spouse. What separates good marriages from dysfunctional marriages is how the conflicts are dealt with.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It wasn't just making out. There was lots of hands on action as well.
> 
> But it was the strangest thing. He actually got vocal during his orgasm. It was hilarious though because after we were done, we both looked at each other with surprise. (He is usually super quiet) And I said, "Hey. You sounded like me." Then we both started laughing.
> 
> And yes you are right. I fear that with all the good sex, he will forget and/or use it to deny that we have problems too. And will want to say, "See. I'm just fine. I don't need to go to the doctor."


How was the quality of his erection during this time? Did you notice if it was semi-hard, barely full hard or rock hard? If he was rock hard, what made this time different than others when he was having difficulties? 

I don't recall if he ever got his T levels tested or not, but the more I read in this thread the more it looks like your husband is a very fickle guy. He seems to have the "only child syndrome", performance anxiety if sometimes its fully ready and sometimes it won't go and now we learn he suffers from SAD? 

Is it me, or does anyone else think this guy has a lot going on upstairs that he needs to work thru in order to become that better husband? Kudos for making the progress, but I hope you can figure out the real smoking gun(s) for why he seems to have such a strong sense of "quid pro quo" when it comes to sex with you plus the ED and selfish tendencies with sex.

From what I read, no guy should need to set up covert contracts and try a quid pro quo approach to sex with you. Seems like if he'd give you more of what you need, you'd give him EVERYTHING you possibly good in the bedroom. Frankly, I don't get why he can't see that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> How was the quality of his erection during this time? Did you notice if it was semi-hard, barely full hard or rock hard? If he was rock hard, what made this time different than others when he was having difficulties?
> 
> I don't recall if he ever got his T levels tested or not, but the more I read in this thread the more it looks like your husband is a very fickle guy. He seems to have the "only child syndrome", performance anxiety if sometimes its fully ready and sometimes it won't go and now we learn he suffers from SAD?
> 
> Is it me, or does anyone else think this guy has a lot going on upstairs that he needs to work thru in order to become that better husband? Kudos for making the progress, but I hope you can figure out the real smoking gun(s) for why he seems to have such a strong sense of "quid pro quo" when it comes to sex with you plus the ED and selfish tendencies with sex.
> 
> From what I read, no guy should need to set up covert contracts and try a quid pro quo approach to sex with you. Seems like if he'd give you more of what you need, you'd give him EVERYTHING you possibly good in the bedroom. Frankly, I don't get why he can't see that.


He was rock hard. Actually the hardest he's been in a while. He usually is if we go without for a week or more. 

I don't think he is a fickle person at all actually. But he does have performance anxiety, SAD, and he can be selfish. 

And yes. If I felt like I was sexually satisfied, I would certainly try to do anything he desired in the bedroom. I already mostly do.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

Well done. And I think it's good that you pulled away from him. His behavior was - selfish AND unkind. 

Perhaps it's time for a short CTJ discussion that goes like this:

I don't understand why you keep asking me for something that you never offer: unreciprocated oral sex to completion

When you do that, I feel used. And that feeling of being used, converts quickly to anger. 

---------
And then shut up. But don't debate, don't justify and don't defend. 

He can say what he wants, but it won't change the truth of how you feel.

If he throws himself a pity party, don't join in. If he tries to manipulate you, just use the classic phrase: 
I'm sorry you feel that way






TheCuriousWife said:


> Arg.
> 
> I'm working 6, 12hour days straight and I'm exhausted. Husband surprised me nicely by cleaning the house and washing all the dishes today while I was gone. I was very impressed.
> 
> Then he wanted to make out. Sure, we were having fun, and then it happens... "Hey. Since I cleaned the house, can I get a blow job?"
> 
> I immediately stopped and pulled away from him. He got upset and tried to guilt me into it. It made me angry that the entire thing was a ploy. I told him that I felt like he only cleaned the house and wanted to kiss and be intimate with me, so he could butter me up and get a blow job. He gets defensive, gets up and storms out.
> 
> He left, and now I'm getting ready to head back to work. (I had a short dinner break)
> 
> We haven't kissed all week, and it ticks me off so bad that he finally tries to be intimate and it's only to get something from me.  He is mad because he feels like he deserves one.
> 
> Am I in the wrong? Or is he just back to his spoiled selfish ways?
> 
> Last month during my period he pulled the same crap. We started making out, and then he asked. I told him no, and he got angry and started whining, and I hesitantly gave in.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

You are a giver. And you've proven that repeatedly. And at the start of your marriage you DID give and give and then you gave some more. 

Until you woke up one morning and realized that, without meaning to, your H was sucking the life out of you with his selfishness. 

If he wants to have a good sex life, he needs to go to the fvcking doctor.....





TheCuriousWife said:


> He was rock hard. Actually the hardest he's been in a while. He usually is if we go without for a week or more.
> 
> I don't think he is a fickle person at all actually. But he does have performance anxiety, SAD, and he can be selfish.
> 
> And yes. If I felt like I was sexually satisfied, I would certainly try to do anything he desired in the bedroom. I already mostly do.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



mem11363 said:


> cw,
> 
> you are a giver. And you've proven that repeatedly. And at the start of your marriage you did give and give and then you gave some more.
> 
> Until you woke up one morning and realized that, without meaning to, your h was sucking the life out of you with his selfishness.
> 
> If he wants to have a good sex life, he needs to go to the fvcking doctor.....


amen!!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't care if C2 walks on water, turns the tap in the kitchen and Cabernet comes out. 

There's only one type miracle and wonder matters here. Having the doc subtract a good 60 years from his sexual age. 

The way this works, you got three distinct ages: physical, mental and sexual

Mental/physical - that there gives you your IQ
physical/sexual - gives your your SQ (sexual quotient)

His Physical age is 27, sexual age is about 80. Giving him a SQ of about 33. 





Anon Pink said:


> Good for you for not caving. I don't understand why it is so hard for some people to understand manipulation tactics are a HUGE turn off!
> 
> Curious, you have to tell him that had he been affectionate with you every day, showing his love for you everyday, his buttering up tactics would have worked but not because he buttered you up by cleaning the house, but because you felt loved and wanted every day and not just the day he wanted a blow job! What an idiot!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

IDK MEM, Cabernet out of the faucet...that's worth something special...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> Well done. And I think it's good that you pulled away from him. His behavior was - selfish AND unkind.
> 
> Perhaps it's time for a short CTJ discussion that goes like this:
> 
> I don't understand why you keep asking me for something that you never offer: unreciprocated oral sex to completion
> 
> When you do that, I feel used. And that feeling of being used, converts quickly to anger.
> 
> ---------
> And then shut up. But don't debate, don't justify and don't defend.
> 
> He can say what he wants, but it won't change the truth of how you feel.
> 
> If he throws himself a pity party, don't join in. If he tries to manipulate you, just use the classic phrase:
> I'm sorry you feel that way


:smthumbup: Love this. 

I have said that before. He gives me stupid excuses like, "Yours takes longer so it's not the same thing" or "you can't give off that way" (pssh. He's never tried)

Then I have to go on the defensive. 

I think just shutting up sounds great. I'll give it a whirl.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> You are a giver. And you've proven that repeatedly. And at the start of your marriage you DID give and give and then you gave some more.
> 
> Until you woke up one morning and realized that, without meaning to, your H was sucking the life out of you with his selfishness.
> 
> If he wants to have a good sex life, he needs to go to the fvcking doctor.....


:iagree:

This girl has only got so much to give. And I've given it!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I glad you had a good time with foreplay .. that is really special as well.

Hang in there, put some pressure on, and remember - you deserve a better life through chemistry.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The one thing I do notice, is that we can turn our bad days around lot quicker now. When we used to have a disagreement about sex, sometime I would stew for over a week or two before we would communicate and work it out. Now we rarely argue for more than a day, before we sit down and talk about it. *I'd say that is progress.*


I'd say so too! When trying to fix our broken marriage my wife and I noticed this as well and that's when we truly new we were on the mend. We couldn't stay angry with one another. 

Best!


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> If he wants to have a good sex life, he needs to go to the fvcking doctor.....



Absofvckinglutely! 


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't really follow this thread much, just pop in from time to time.

I thought he was going to get his T levels checked ages ago.

If he hasn't gone yet, that's it. It'd be over for me. It's such a simple thing. It would show that he's interested in working on the problem. Not going shows that he doesn't care about CW's needs.

And not giving her oral??? I'd have been left him ages ago.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Buddy400 said:


> I don't really follow this thread much, just pop in from time to time.
> 
> I thought he was going to get his T levels checked ages ago.
> 
> If he hasn't gone yet, that's it. It'd be over for me. It's such a simple thing. It would show that he's interested in working on the problem. Not going shows that he doesn't care about CW's needs.
> 
> And not giving her oral??? I'd have been left him ages ago.


He DID get his T levels checked, which is now causing more problems. He came back in the "normal" range, and the doctor said he was fine. Even though he told her he had ED and had trouble getting in the mood in his 20s... :banghead:

And he does give me oral. But only for a few minutes at a time, and never to completion.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*his T levels are normal all right - for an 80 year old*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He DID get his T levels checked, which is now causing more problems. He came back in the "normal" range, and the doctor said he was fine. Even though he told her he had ED and had trouble getting in the mood in his 20s... :banghead:
> 
> And he does give me oral. But only for a few minutes at a time, and never to completion.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> *his T levels are normal all right - for an 80 year old*


:iagree:

Oh I forgot to update about that. My doctor/friend is back from vacation, and we are going to meet hopefully next week and discuss where to go from here, and if she has any specialist suggestions.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Oh I forgot to update about that. My doctor/friend is back from vacation, and we are going to meet hopefully next week and discuss where to go from here, and if she has any specialist suggestions.


You have come a long way, got him to test his T level. This is no time to give up. You know there is something wrong, and most likely something can be done about it. You don't need to try to rush everything, but also don't need to back down. Do not settle for "tolerable" sex life, or even OK sex life. You are young, married, and should be having a great sex life. So carry on, there is help out there, you just have to find it because it certainly is not going to show up at your doorstep.


----------



## brandybiz

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wow, so much here for a newbie to read thru, I had to skip around, but I have a similar story that I just posted here. I have no advice, but I feel your pain. (((HUGS)))


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He DID get his T levels checked, which is now causing more problems. He came back in the "normal" range, and the doctor said he was fine. Even though he told her he had ED and had trouble getting in the mood in his 20s... :banghead:
> 
> And he does give me oral. But only for a few minutes at a time, and never to completion.


When I first got checked by a urologist, I got "low, but in the normal range" and, of course, he didn't do anything. Went to a Low-T center. They pumped me full of T (which, of course, is what they are going to do, it's their thing) and it's been "game on" ever since


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have said that before. *He gives me stupid excuses* like, "Yours takes longer so it's not the same thing" or "you can't give off that way" (pssh. He's never tried)
> 
> *Then I have to go on the defensive. *


*sigh*

CW, Why, oh why are you putting up with these lame excuses?!

I see the advice you give on other threads. It's top notch and perfect.

Why do you fail to take the same advice for yourself?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



brandybiz said:


> Wow, so much here for a newbie to read thru, I had to skip around, but I have a similar story that I just posted here. I have no advice, but I feel your pain. (((HUGS)))


Welcome. I'll check out your thread.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Buddy400 said:


> When I first got checked by a urologist, I got "low, but in the normal range" and, of course, he didn't do anything. Went to a Low-T center. They pumped me full of T (which, of course, is what they are going to do, it's their thing) and it's been "game on" ever since


I highly DOUBT I would ever get him to go to any place called the Low-T center. Also I don't think insurance would cover it. :/ I've checked.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> *sigh*
> 
> CW, Why, oh why are you putting up with these lame excuses?!
> 
> I see the advice you give on other threads. It's top notch and perfect.
> 
> Why do you fail to take the same advice for yourself?


Well I call him out on it. But he is a much better speaker than me, and can think a lot quicker. It seems I never find the right words until after the conversation is over. 

Unless I have thought about it, and have planned out a discussion in my mind, I'm usually just back peddling and trying to defend myself. 

It makes it extremely hard to be assertive in that moment. I need time to process.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Feeling quite cranky today.

Yesterday morning he mentioned that we would be having sex that evening... Great. I made sure to shave to save time later, and looked forward to it all day.

Well evening came, and not another word had been said. I tried flirting a little, and he mentioned he was cold. Then our conversation went like this:

"I know a way we can warm you up..." *crickets chirping* "With body heat." "Ha ha..." "What do you say?" *long pause* "Uh... I guess you can go shower if you _really_ want to..." "Never mind."

I sat down and started reading. He said nothing about it, and he fell asleep within an hour after playing on the computer. 

I _could_ have said okay and got up and went and showered. But really. It would have been lack luster, crappy sex. Why bother. Could he make me feel any less desired? 

Besides that. I think him going to the doctor again is totally trashed. We received a $500 bill yesterday for his lab work. We were under the assumption it would be free, and I had even asked twice before the tests. He is mad, and says it was a complete waste of money, and that he is never going to the doctor again.

Now I am going to have to fight twice as hard, to ever get him to go back. Just feeling tired of battling today.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I highly DOUBT I would ever get him to go to any place called the Low-T center. Also I don't think insurance would cover it. :/ I've checked.



They generally cover testing etc only if there are symptoms. I asked my doc for a T-test and he said it would be out of pocket without symptoms.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> They generally cover testing etc only if there are symptoms. I asked my doc for a T-test and he said it would be out of pocket without symptoms.


Well my husband has symptoms...

But he is suppose to receive free lab work for any reason, as long as the provider is in-network.

Those specialty Low-T centers are not. I think insurance and most doctors kind of see them as a joke. Giving T out to men who don't really need it, for any reason.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well damn CW. 

First, good job on not being an eager puppy last night. Screw that! Bring me your best or stay the hell away! However, before you dropped the hints, if you saw the signs that he wasn't interested, I wonder why you didn't just initiate a conversation? "You said this morning that tonight we'd have sex but now I'm getting a clear vibe you're not interested? What's going on?"

I don't know what kind of insurance you have but if you have deductibles you have to pay down before insurance kicks in, the end of the year is right around the corner so NOW is the time to get all the lab work necessary. Redouble your efforts to get him to a urologist or endocrinologist.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Well damn CW.
> 
> First, good job on not being an eager puppy last night. Screw that! Bring me your best or stay the hell away! However, before you dropped the hints, if you saw the signs that he wasn't interested, I wonder why you didn't just initiate a conversation? "You said this morning that tonight we'd have sex but now I'm getting a clear vibe you're not interested? What's going on?"
> 
> I don't know what kind of insurance you have but if you have deductibles you have to pay down before insurance kicks in, the end of the year is right around the corner so NOW is the time to get all the lab work necessary. Redouble your efforts to get him to a urologist or endocrinologist.


I agree. I'm past being willing to take his pity sex. 

Why didn't I initiate a conversation? Because I'm a coward I guess. I rarely believe him when he promises me things later. Because if he isn't in the mood, well then all bets are off. 

I could have came out and straight up asked. But for some reason, the flat out rejection is harder to take than if I just hint. Although he KNEW what I was talking about. Besides the fact that I absolutely loath asking for sex. Talk about a turn off. He will never just say, "Sure!" or "Heck yes." It's always, "Maybe." or "I guess."  

Asking is an instant mood killer for me. Because he never reacts with enthusiasm. I shouldn't have hinted around at all. I knew better. I was just stupid enough to believe it was "safe" because he had said it previously. 

We don't have a deductible on in-network, or it is very small. We weren't charged at all for the doctor's visit. I could have gotten the lab work done there, and it would have been free. *smacks forehead* But we went to a specialty place because we were told they were better, and because they could get us in on a Saturday so he didn't have to take off work again. I was led to believe it would be free too. Arg.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If I were in your situation, I would have taken the opportunity to tell my husband that, his unwillingness to have sex after making a promise that morning and then falling asleep early is just further evidence that his testosterone is low and he needs to see a specialist ASAP. I would bring it up every chance I got and if he got tired of hearing it, well that's too bad, just go see the doctor and I will shut up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> If I were in your situation, I would have taken the opportunity to tell my husband that, his unwillingness to have sex after making a promise that morning and then falling asleep early is just further evidence that his testosterone is low and he needs to see a specialist ASAP. I would bring it up every chance I got and if he got tired of hearing it, well that's too bad, just go see the doctor and I will shut up.


:lol:

This is actually a fantastic idea. It's so simple, I'm ashamed I didn't think of it.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

No, even in-network there have to be documented symptoms before a test or procedure is done. If you're over a certain age you might get it covered by default.

I've run into this twice this year, one was T - my doc is part of a larger practice that has an in house lab but with no symptoms in the chart, no coverage. And for removing skin tags, I asked and he said if they scratch or get irritated then they can capture in the chart and will be covered...

You have to play the game - my wife did genetic testing when pregnant (quite expensive) and to cover it the ObGyn had to write some rather scary stuff on her chart. And that was 29 years ago. 

Places like Low-T Center simply capitalize on this... I would work with your doctor to rewrite and submit the claim indicating there are symptoms and list as needed.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He probably really does mean it in the morning when he says sex for sure that evening. But he's not actually as ready as you are so as the day progresses and things happen (and it's very easy for things to happen to someone who is LD), he loses interest. 

LD's just aren't focused on sex unless it's when they really want it. His desire probably hasn't had time to completely build back up since the last time. His true schedule could be every ten days or every two weeks but he's trying to make a more frequent schedule work and he's not enthusiastic about it. 

When a LD is on someone else's schedule, they can make themselves perform but it's not their preference and there's just little to no enthusiasm there.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Openminded said:


> He probably really does mean it in the morning when he says sex for sure that evening. But he's not actually as ready as you are so as the day progresses and things happen (and it's very easy for things to happen to someone who is LD), he loses interest.
> 
> LD's just aren't focused on sex unless it's when they really want it. His desire probably hasn't had time to completely build back up since the last time. His true schedule could be every ten days or every two weeks but he's trying to make a more frequent schedule work and he's not enthusiastic about it.
> 
> When a LD is on someone else's schedule, they can make themselves perform but it's not their preference and there's just little to no enthusiasm there.


:iagree:

Very true. 

I'm just not sure how to compromise where we are both more satisfied. The only thing that makes him more enthusiastic is going a week or more without. And that nearly kills me.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Even if he only wants sex every 10-14 days, he knows you want to more than that. He should be taking care of you in other ways if he isn't up for PIV.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Even if he only wants sex every 10-14 days, he knows you want to more than that. He should be taking care of you in other ways if he isn't up for PIV.


He'd rather just give me crappy, pity PIV sex. Even if he isn't in the mood.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well my husband has symptoms...
> 
> But he is suppose to receive free lab work for any reason, as long as the provider is in-network.
> 
> Those specialty Low-T centers are not. I think insurance and most doctors kind of see them as a joke. Giving T out to men who don't really need it, for any reason.


My insurance covers it. Of course, that doesn't mean that yours would.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

Call the insurance company and tell them the tests were: medically necessary as your H has a medical condition (ED amd hypo active desire) caused by low T. And the results indeed show his T levels are that of an 80 year old. 

And that you were told this was covered and expect them to pay the bill. 

If they plan on not paying: ask them what information they need from the doctor to agree to pay

And then lean on the doctor to provide that. And lean hard with: 
Why are you acting as if hypo active desire and ED aren't a valid medical condition? 

And then last step with the insurer: what is your formal appeals process for when a customer feels you aren't following your own coverage guidelines? 







TheCuriousWife said:


> Feeling quite cranky today.
> 
> Yesterday morning he mentioned that we would be having sex that evening... Great. I made sure to shave to save time later, and looked forward to it all day.
> 
> Well evening came, and not another word had been said. I tried flirting a little, and he mentioned he was cold. Then our conversation went like this:
> 
> "I know a way we can warm you up..." *crickets chirping* "With body heat." "Ha ha..." "What do you say?" *long pause* "Uh... I guess you can go shower if you _really_ want to..." "Never mind."
> 
> I sat down and started reading. He said nothing about it, and he fell asleep within an hour after playing on the computer.
> 
> I _could_ have said okay and got up and went and showered. But really. It would have been lack luster, crappy sex. Why bother. Could he make me feel any less desired?
> 
> Besides that. I think him going to the doctor again is totally trashed. We received a $500 bill yesterday for his lab work. We were under the assumption it would be free, and I had even asked twice before the tests. He is mad, and says it was a complete waste of money, and that he is never going to the doctor again.
> 
> Now I am going to have to fight twice as hard, to ever get him to go back. Just feeling tired of battling today.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's not the type of test that was the problem. It was the place we got the test at.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I call him out on it. But he is a much better speaker than me, *and can think a lot quicker*. It seems I never find the right words until *after the conversation is over*.
> 
> Unless I have thought about it, and have planned out a discussion in my mind, I'm usually just back peddling and trying to *defend myself*.
> 
> It makes it extremely hard to be assertive in that moment. I need *time to process*.


*Can't help you out here, because I have the same issue. Slow to think, easily buried by spouses quick logic and words. I sympathize with you. I am going to try to hold out my hand, and say "I need a moment to think." and see if that works for me.*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Feeling quite cranky today.
> 
> Yesterday morning he mentioned that we would be having sex that evening... Great. I made sure to shave to save time later, and looked forward to it all day.
> 
> Well evening came, and not another word had been said. I tried flirting a little, and he mentioned he was cold. Then our conversation went like this:
> 
> "I know a way we can warm you up..." *crickets chirping* "With body heat." "Ha ha..." "What do you say?" *long pause* "Uh... I guess you can go shower if you _really_ want to..." "Never mind."
> 
> I sat down and started reading. He said nothing about it, and he fell asleep within an hour after playing on the computer.
> 
> I _could_ have said okay and got up and went and showered. But really. It would have been lack luster, crappy sex. Why bother. Could he make me feel any less desired?
> 
> Besides that. I think him going to the doctor again is totally trashed. *We received a $500 bill yesterday for his lab work*. We were under the assumption it would be free, and I had even asked twice before the tests. He is mad, and says it was a complete waste of money, and that he is never going to the doctor again.
> 
> Now I am going to have to* fight twice as hard*, to ever get him to go back. Just feeling tired of battling today.


Fight the insurance company, they just might roll over on it, they might be just expecting to try to "get away with it."

Try not to let the cost of getting help discourage you. I know that is hard. And you might talk to your doctor friend about this concern too.

You have come a long way, you have no way of knowing if one more doctor visit will unveil what is really going on.

Oh, and remember, that T levels are generally higher in the morning. So that might make him slightly more frisky in the morning than at night. So that might help explain why he made moves in the morning and failed to follow through at night.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Very true.
> 
> I'm just not sure how to compromise where we are both more satisfied. The only thing that makes him more enthusiastic is going a week or more without. And that nearly kills me.


The problem is that LD's don't understand compromise in sex very well. They aren't feeling constant desire so they don't get the need to do something enthusiastically that they aren't interested in right then.

It's a very tough road, obviously. I think it's much worse for a HD woman to be with a LD man than the opposite because as females we view men as automatically HD. It's a shock when we find out they aren't all that way. I'm not speaking from experience in that area though. When I was married, my husband was very HD and I was LD so my perspective is from a LD female viewpoint.


----------



## tommyr

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> "I know a way we can warm you up..." *crickets chirping* "With body heat." "Ha ha..." "What do you say?" *long pause* "Uh... I guess you can go shower if you _really_ want to..." "Never mind."


I've stayed away from this thread because it pains me to read about an LD husband with an ND (normal desire) wife. What a cruel world that all the LD's don't pair up amongst themselves, but instead disguise their true nature until married to an ND or HD!

But CuriousWife, I think maybe there is another tactic here that could work. Instead of you saying _Never mind_, what if you had jumped right up, with enthusiasm and spark, and said "meet me in bed naked and hard in 5 minutes"? 
It seems to me that your H did not reject you at all, but rather his response was agreeable but showed less enthusiasm than you would want. Well guess what? He is LD, and he just is not wired to show enthusiasm at your invitation to have sex. But this need not be a dealbreaker because YOU have enough enthusiasm for the both of you, and I believe that enthusiasm can be contagious. If you had shown joy and excitement and invited him up to bed, I believe his response may just move in the direction you want. And once an LD is actually in bed then I believe the main hurdle is cleared and responsive desire has a great chance of kicking in.

Do you see where I'm going with this idea?
It's not just random theory, but this actually works pretty well in my house. It took some effort for me to get "past" the fact my wife (on her own) has such low desire, but I have enough for the both of us, and she definitely responds to my upbeat excitement.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Could he make me feel any less desired?




Yes. Very much so, IME.



Not saying that to threadjack, commiserate, or wallow in my own pity party here. I want to warn you about something I think I have learned:



Sometimes people who are averse to being aware of their own issues and behavior, who are in an adversarial relationship with reality, will -- consciously or not -- will say mean and horrible things to shutdown the other who is seeking intimacy and connection. 



Don't be fooled into thinking such behavior is about you, a weakness of yours, or that you are not desirable and loveable.



The more one is rejected, the easier it is to fool yourself. Once one falls into that hole, it is hard to get out of. Guard against it, like you are guarding your life.



From what I have read, his rejections are not about you. They are about him.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It's not the type of test that was the problem. It was the place we got the test at.




I understand, I think.



I had success getting insurance to pay when the hospital and OB we chose were "in the plan", but the anesthesiologist "they" provided was not. It took some effort. That was 12-15 years ago. Not sure if you could make a similar argument.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> *Can't help you out here, because I have the same issue. Slow to think, easily buried by spouses quick logic and words. I sympathize with you. I am going to try to hold out my hand, and say "I need a moment to think." and see if that works for me.*





I am learning to make a point to have a followup conversation, when I am frustrated that I ddidn't think fast enough and the thing unsaid is troubling me and letting her misunderstand what is going on inside me.



With strangers, follow-up conversations are overkill and awkward in most situations. But, with someone continuously in your life, the most important things are to communicate clearly, to eliminate misunderstandings, not let the other deflect or evade what is you need him or her to hear. If that has to wait until the next day, or whenever, close the information gap then as soon as you can.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



tommyr said:


> I've stayed away from this thread because it pains me to read about an LD husband with an ND (normal desire) wife. What a cruel world that all the LD's don't pair up amongst themselves, but instead disguise their true nature until married to an ND or HD!
> 
> But CuriousWife, I think maybe there is another tactic here that could work. Instead of you saying _Never mind_, what if you had jumped right up, with enthusiasm and spark, and said "meet me in bed naked and hard in 5 minutes"?
> It seems to me that your H did not reject you at all, but rather his response was agreeable but showed less enthusiasm than you would want. Well guess what? He is LD, and he just is not wired to show enthusiasm at your invitation to have sex. But this need not be a dealbreaker because YOU have enough enthusiasm for the both of you, and I believe that enthusiasm can be contagious. If you had shown joy and excitement and invited him up to bed, I believe his response may just move in the direction you want. And once an LD is actually in bed then I believe the main hurdle is cleared and responsive desire has a great chance of kicking in.
> 
> Do you see where I'm going with this idea?
> It's not just random theory, but this actually works pretty well in my house. It took some effort for me to get "past" the fact my wife (on her own) has such low desire, but I have enough for the both of us, and she definitely responds to my upbeat excitement.


I've tried that in the past. It doesn't work for him.

I just end up getting pity sex, where he isn't into it at all, and I'm left feeling shallow, and undesired.

We've been around the block enough, that I could know he was clearly "telling" me that he wasn't interested. We've fought about it enough, where he usually doesn't flat out tell me no anymore because that just proves that he rejects me. But he will say things like, "well I'm kind of tired" or "I have a headache. But I guess we can do it if you really want to..."

That way it makes me the bad guy, because I'm the one to say no. Even though he is giving off signals that he does NOT want to do it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

All day I thought about my follow up conversation. I was going to tell him just how hurtful it was to promise me sex, then blow me off. I was feeling confident, assertive. 

Well as soon as he walks through the door, he has his head hung low, and he hugs me. Immediately telling me how sorry he was for rejecting me the day before. 

Everything I was going to lay into him for, he confessed on his own and apologized.

See. He KNEW exactly what he was doing when he blew me off. He knew he was rejecting me, without actually saying it. He knew he hurt my feelings. I wasn't just taking it the wrong way.

We had a good discussion, and had some good makeup sex. Including him doing some of my favorite things. 

Although it irks me that sex can't just come natural, and that we always have to fight about it, and then he has sex with me because I'm upset. I am glad that he admitted that he actually rejects me. A lot of times he just tries to deny. 

Sigh. That man.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

NO 

No no no

This won't work with a man. It might work with a LD woman, depending on a few key factors. 

But it will make things worse with an LD man suffering from low T and ED. 







tommyr said:


> I've stayed away from this thread because it pains me to read about an LD husband with an ND (normal desire) wife. What a cruel world that all the LD's don't pair up amongst themselves, but instead disguise their true nature until married to an ND or HD!
> 
> But CuriousWife, I think maybe there is another tactic here that could work. Instead of you saying _Never mind_, what if you had jumped right up, with enthusiasm and spark, and said "meet me in bed naked and hard in 5 minutes"?
> It seems to me that your H did not reject you at all, but rather his response was agreeable but showed less enthusiasm than you would want. Well guess what? He is LD, and he just is not wired to show enthusiasm at your invitation to have sex. But this need not be a dealbreaker because YOU have enough enthusiasm for the both of you, and I believe that enthusiasm can be contagious. If you had shown joy and excitement and invited him up to bed, I believe his response may just move in the direction you want. And once an LD is actually in bed then I believe the main hurdle is cleared and responsive desire has a great chance of kicking in.
> 
> Do you see where I'm going with this idea?
> It's not just random theory, but this actually works pretty well in my house. It took some effort for me to get "past" the fact my wife (on her own) has such low desire, but I have enough for the both of us, and she definitely responds to my upbeat excitement.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

This is a story of how the young lioness clawed her way through the fog of deception to achieve real intimacy. 

For what is intimacy if not the raw, and oft painful truth. 

This is the story of a woman, turning a boy into a man. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> All day I thought about my follow up conversation. I was going to tell him just how hurtful it was to promise me sex, then blow me off. I was feeling confident, assertive.
> 
> Well as soon as he walks through the door, he has his head hung low, and he hugs me. Immediately telling me how sorry he was for rejecting me the day before.
> 
> Everything I was going to lay into him for, he confessed on his own and apologized.
> 
> See. He KNEW exactly what he was doing when he blew me off. He knew he was rejecting me, without actually saying it. He knew he hurt my feelings. I wasn't just taking it the wrong way.
> 
> We had a good discussion, and had some good makeup sex. Including him doing some of my favorite things.
> 
> Although it irks me that sex can't just come natural, and that we always have to fight about it, and then he has sex with me because I'm upset. I am glad that he admitted that he actually rejects me. A lot of times he just tries to deny.
> 
> Sigh. That man.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> NO
> 
> No no no
> 
> This won't work with a man. It might work with a LD woman, depending on a few key factors.
> 
> But it will make things worse with an LD man suffering from low T and ED.


:iagree:


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

You want to encourage him to do more of that. 

Tonight or tomorrow you briefly revisit it - like so:

CW: I'm proud of how you handled that conversation with me the other day. You walked in the door, and spoke the raw truth with no prompting from me. That took courage. When you do that, it builds trust and respect. It makes me love you more.






TheCuriousWife said:


> All day I thought about my follow up conversation. I was going to tell him just how hurtful it was to promise me sex, then blow me off. I was feeling confident, assertive.
> 
> Well as soon as he walks through the door, he has his head hung low, and he hugs me. Immediately telling me how sorry he was for rejecting me the day before.
> 
> Everything I was going to lay into him for, he confessed on his own and apologized.
> 
> See. He KNEW exactly what he was doing when he blew me off. He knew he was rejecting me, without actually saying it. He knew he hurt my feelings. I wasn't just taking it the wrong way.
> 
> We had a good discussion, and had some good makeup sex. Including him doing some of my favorite things.
> 
> Although it irks me that sex can't just come natural, and that we always have to fight about it, and then he has sex with me because I'm upset. I am glad that he admitted that he actually rejects me. A lot of times he just tries to deny.
> 
> Sigh. That man.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> All day I thought about my follow up conversation. I was going to tell him just how hurtful it was to promise me sex, then blow me off. I was feeling confident, assertive.
> 
> Well as soon as he walks through the door, he has his head hung low, and he hugs me. Immediately telling me how sorry he was for rejecting me the day before.
> 
> Everything I was going to lay into him for, he confessed on his own and apologized.
> 
> See. He *KNEW exactly what he was doing when he blew me off*. He knew he was rejecting me, without actually saying it. He knew he hurt my feelings. I wasn't just taking it the wrong way.
> 
> We had a good discussion, and had some good makeup sex. Including him doing some of my favorite things.
> 
> Although it irks me that sex can't just come natural, and that we always have to fight about it, and then he has sex with me because I'm upset. I am glad that he admitted that he actually rejects me. A lot of times he just tries to deny.
> 
> Sigh. That man.


And that is it. He knew, and he did it. And after a while he came clean. It would have been nicer to take less time thinking about it. And it would have been nice to come clean that night and go at it after discussing it. I would bet that if he suddenly came to you and apologized that night, and explained that he was wrong, that it would have ended up having a good time.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You're making such progress CW. Roar baby roar!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks! 

The good times are continuing. Last night we may have had a quickie on the kitchen table during dinner.  Shh. Don't tell our dinner guests that are coming over tomorrow.

Cooked our favorite meal, watched our favorite shows, and snuggled all night. I was awoken by breakfast in bed this morning. 

Tomorrow I get morning sex and then we have a fun weekend planned with family and friends.

I think I am walking on air.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We had a very good weekend. Had a lot of fun with family and friends. Up until he turned me down for sex again last night. 

He has promised me today. But I can't help feeling disappointed. I know he won't have sex tomorrow, and we won't have time Thursday. Maybe I'm just crazy, but it certainly seems like he is trying to wean me down to every 3 days instead of our agreed on every other day. This is becoming a common occurrence.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think that's probably a natural tendency--the "weaning". Just like it's probably a natural tendency when there's an uptick in sex for the HD to start pushing the envelope a little. Try to have a touchbase with him now and then to make sure you're both on the same page with your agreement. Sometimes we all need to refocus.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

did he give you a reason for no sex, like "very tired, not feeling good"?

this is ok, if it's not too often. forget his prior history. keep an eye on his 'new self'.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> did he give you a reason for no sex, like "very tired, not feeling good"?
> 
> this is ok, if it's not too often. forget his prior history. keep an eye on his 'new self'.


No. He just said "nah our favorite show is going to come on in an hour. Maybe after that."

Well the show was cancelled, but still no sex. 

I don't even push for reasons anymore. They are just excuses. If he turns me down I don't argue, I just shrug it off and go do something else. 

Now this morning he is being all sweet, and mentioning sex tonight. It feels like he is trying to subtly train me. 

Who knows. Maybe he isn't and my thoughts are just clouded from the past. I'm probably thinking too hard about this.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No. He just said "nah our favorite show is going to come on in an hour. Maybe after that."
> 
> Well the show was cancelled, but still no sex.
> 
> *I don't even push for reasons anymore. They are just excuses. If he turns me down I don't argue, I just shrug it off and go do something else. *
> Now this morning he is being all sweet, and mentioning sex tonight. *It feels like he is trying to subtly train me*.
> 
> Who knows. Maybe he isn't and my thoughts are just clouded from the past. I'm probably thinking too hard about this.


Maybe it's working?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> Maybe it's working?


I just meant that I don't feel the need to beg and try to reason with him. I will not beg my husband for sex anymore.

I don't need to ask what his excuses are.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Aaaand my mother now wants to hang out this evening, and I haven't seen her for a good while.

I told husband and he was just like, "Darn. Should have had sex yesterday. Sorry."

Kind of feel like it would serve him right if we don't get to have sex tonight. But then again. Who would I really be hurting, me or him?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I really do wish you guys could enjoy spontaneous sex for awhile. I've never heard of a couple that plans their sex life out as much as you two do! LOL! If I had to take showers, schedule around TV shows, bedtime curfew, work schedule, date nights, etc. every time I wanted to have sex, I don't think it would be worth it. Just my opinion Curious, no disrespect meant whatsoever.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I really do wish you guys could enjoy spontaneous sex for awhile. I've never heard of a couple that plans their sex life out as much as you two do! LOL! If I had to take showers, schedule around TV shows, bedtime curfew, work schedule, date nights, etc. every time I wanted to have sex, I don't think it would be worth it. Just my opinion Curious, no disrespect meant whatsoever.


:iagree:

It is weird. But I don't know how to change it. :scratchhead:

I know what the times are that I absolutely won't get sex. Ie. tv show times, after busy days, right before or right after dinner, two days in a row etc.

So I know when not to ask. and I'm very much an over thinker. So I find myself expecting and looking forward to it, when I know all the criteria will be met. 

I can't just spontaneously initiate or I will be shot down. The only time I don't have to follow the schedule is when it's been over a week. Then he is willing delay skip dinner, or skip a tv show. 

I'm not willing to not shower before sex. Unless it's only been a couple hours. When I say shower though, I'm not like washing my hair. I just shave and rinse the fun zone. If I know sex is on the horizon, I will shower before he gets home, so he doesn't have to wait. 

Or I can just use a wet wipe. That's fine sometimes.


I don't know how to break us out of this mood killing cycle.

Help. What can I do?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, this is where a high drive really helps. The person with a high drive is willing to initiate sex, and even initiate it when there is some risk involved (i.e. being turned down or being discovered). And the HD person has the mood strike at any moment. That is, it takes very little to make the HD person want it right now. Of course you know because you are the HD. 

So, as far as help goes, putting more pressure to go to the specialist is one thing that would probably help. You might also remind yourself that pushing him to go to the doctor again will also improve HIS sex life as well. That is, he will get a big benefit out of it as well. Once he finds out what a rocking time he can have with you he will probably wonder why he did not do something earlier. That is, it is not just for you, he is going to love being more sexually driven as well.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Do you ever watch TV shows like the Walking Dead or Revolution? I always wonder how the hell are they staying clean? They must stink to high heaven. And then I wonder how I would handle a situation in which the modern comforts have disappeared. IOW CW, stop over thinking the sex, the parameters and the prep work involved. Sometimes spontaneous stinky dirty sex is fun. Especially in the shed when you both stink to high heaven!


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Napoleon would write letters to Josephine when he would come home from battle to tell her to stop washing. He wanted her good and "natural" when he got back to France.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sure curious wouldn't everything things if she didn't have to due to her situation. I wish I couldn't relate - I was in a down mood yesterday and when I thought about why it was because I had realized Sunday was the first opportunity I would have for sex. (It was Monday so nearly a week) Due to the confines and variables of my situation. 

It would be so wonderful to not have to be constantly weighing your daily odds of getting laid. I am green with envy for couples who jus have sex. Because they want to have sex with each other, no other reason. It's awful on the other side.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Do you ever watch TV shows like the Walking Dead or Revolution? I always wonder how the hell are they staying clean? They must stink to high heaven. And then I wonder how I would handle a situation in which the modern comforts have disappeared. IOW CW, stop over thinking the sex, the parameters and the prep work involved. Sometimes spontaneous stinky dirty sex is fun. Especially in the shed when you both stink to high heaven!


Yes I watch those shows, but that just doesn't help me.

It's too hard to relax and enjoy it if I'm worried about him thinking I'm dirty on top of all the other things I worry about during sex. (Is he bored, is he enjoying it, etc)

If anyone remembers I didn't use to shower every time. But after he has made several comments about my odor, or taste... well that makes a person self conscious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> I'm sure curious wouldn't everything things if she didn't have to due to her situation. I wish I couldn't relate - I was in a down mood yesterday and when I thought about why it was because I had realized Sunday was the first opportunity I would have for sex. (It was Monday so nearly a week) Due to the confines and variables of my situation.
> 
> It would be so wonderful to not have to be constantly weighing your daily odds of getting laid. I am green with envy for couples who jus have sex. Because they want to have sex with each other, no other reason. It's awful on the other side.


I agree. Sure it would be nice if we "just had sex naturally" but it doesn't happen.

If I don't worry about it, make it a priority, and plan out time for it, no one will!

I feel kind of like a kid waiting for Christmas. "Only 2 more sleeps until I get to open presents"


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hahaha. My youngest uses the "sleeps" time measurement system.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh! My! God! 

I killed CW's thread!!! I'm not sure if I'm impressed with my thread killing abilities or horrified!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Oh! My! God!
> 
> I killed CW's thread!!! I'm not sure if I'm impressed with my thread killing abilities or horrified!


:lol:

You didn't kill it. 

I just have nothing new to report worth mentioning. No sense continuing to repeat the same thing over and over. Same old thing.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've got several thread kills under my belt. High-five!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I should be happy.

Things are going well in life. I'm starting my dream job, I love my house, my husband is my best friend. 

We get along fine, he shows me he loves me in many ways, we have shared hobbies, we have fun together, he is a good provider, we have sex 2 or 3 times a week, and I orgasm nearly every time.

And yet, there is a still a part that I crave. I try to tell myself it doesn't matter, or that I can deal without it. But daily I am constantly reminded that something is missing.

Like a silly song playing on the radio that says, "I hear angels every time that you moan... Every time you get undressed, I hear symphonies in my head." He makes a disgusted look and abruptly shuts it off. "Ugh, that song is horrible. No one really thinks like that." And I feel a twinge of sadness. 

Or when I hear women making jokes or complaining about their men always pursuing them, and driving them crazy. I make a half hearted smile and nod in pretend agreement, like I actually know what they are talking about.

I think of the all potential I could unlock with a better suited sex partner. Would I have morning sex? Would we go on a weekend sex marathon? Would we be having adventurous monkey sex? Would they enjoy my sexual advances, and grin when I flaunt my naked body and wink? 

I feel depressed, and then I feel upset at myself that I can't just be happy with what I have. I know rationally that my sex life isn't that bad. But then, why do I feel so incomplete? 

 TheCuriousWife is feeling melancholy today.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yep. Could have written this myself except we are having sex every 10 to 14 days.

Being 20 years older than you are I can also add that my dh just got a better job. I can stop working, I will be able to travel more with him. We are discussing purchasing a second home in Florida. Our kids will be graduated in 5 years. I have the time to do things I enjoy in life, I know he will do anything to make me happy - and he does - so long as it doesn't fall under the romance/sex umbrella.

You know what's missing and you make bargains every day with yourself for ways to dismiss it, think it away, justify it. Nobody has everything, do they? Why would I want to give up so much good - for sex? And yet, despite daily attempts to justify the situation it remains unchanged and it just never feels any better to not be wanted and desired.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

100% amen.

Rationally I think, no one has a perfect marriage. If I were to get better sex with someone else, I would have to compromise on something else. But you're right. It never gets any easy.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I hear ya CW. I don't know what the answer is either.

I have great sex with my husband several times a week. But I am regularly disappointed in his inability to make me feel DESIRED. I think, in my case at least, he doesn't really connect with that part of him and it is a very very small part. 

What's your "orgasmic food?" Something soooo yummy you get excited to have it, you moan when it's put in front of you, you moan when you take a bite. You know those Cinnabons from the mall.... OMG totally orgasmic! Do you have an orgasmic food? How do you communicate or broadcast your feelings about that food? 

My husband doesn't have that. He likes everything pretty much the same. He never moans about a good meal, never goes out of his way for something he craves, never talks about a craving. It's like he has this limitation with regard to enjoyment. I've been married to him for 29 years and I have no idea what his favorite food is and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any food that he thinks of as orgasmic.

I don't know if it is possible to teach him to connect his emotions with anything that strongly. I don't think his "joy meter" goes that high. I think he has only two settings for emotions. "Acceptable" or "Not Acceptable." Sex is acceptable and no sex is not acceptable. His wife is acceptable.

I wonder how many men are like that and I wonder how normal that is?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I hear ya CW. I don't know what the answer is either.
> 
> I have great sex with my husband several times a week. But I am regularly disappointed in his inability to make me feel DESIRED. I think, in my case at least, he doesn't really connect with that part of him and it is a very very small part.
> 
> What's your "orgasmic food?" Something soooo yummy you get excited to have it, you moan when it's put in front of you, you moan when you take a bite. You know those Cinnabons from the mall.... OMG totally orgasmic! Do you have an orgasmic food? How do you communicate or broadcast your feelings about that food?
> 
> My husband doesn't have that. He likes everything pretty much the same. He never moans about a good meal, never goes out of his way for something he craves, never talks about a craving. It's like he has this limitation with regard to enjoyment. I've been married to him for 29 years and I have no idea what his favorite food is and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any food that he thinks of as orgasmic.
> 
> I don't know if it is possible to teach him to connect his emotions with anything that strongly. I don't think his "joy meter" goes that high. I think he has only two settings for emotions. "Acceptable" or "Not Acceptable." Sex is acceptable and no sex is not acceptable. His wife is acceptable.
> 
> I wonder how many men are like that and I wonder how normal that is?


What an interesting observation.

I have a lot of "orgasmic" food. So I would be hard pressed to pick one. I get excited about multiple dishes. lol

I think my husband is similar to yours. He rarely gets "that" excited about anything. Often time I have to prod him for an answer, because I can't even tell if he likes or doesn't like something. ie. "How is dinner?" or "Is this movie okay or do you want to watch something else?" Usually he will give me answers like "I don't care" or "It's fine." Which are no help at all. 

I am the opposite. I am very passionate about many things. I get excited easily. While he has more monotone emotions. I would call him content, and very non-chalent about everything.

Perhaps it just personality differences. But it does lead me to feel very undesired. Because he has the same attitude about our sex life. "Fine" and "I don't care." Which aren't exactly turn ons.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We're climbing the same mountain.

I've been talking to my husband about this very thing. He is frustrated that I don't perceive his actions that show love and desire. Before he left for his business trip this week we had a chat and he did say some wonderful things that FELT sincere. I want more of that. I want to be his Cinnabon. LOL, know what I mean?


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening TheCuriousWife
I know it doesn't help, but I know exactly how you feel. I was in that situation for 25 years - living a "perfect" life. 

Richard Cory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When things did improve at home (and I still don't know why they did) life was immeasurably better. Sex and intimacy are vital to happiness. You never will just get used to the lack. 

You should be with someone who smiles when they see your naked body. Someone who gives you a hug before dinner - a hug that gets a bit out of hand and suggests that they want to do you right now on the dining room table. 


I wish I could help. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> I should be happy.
> 
> Things are going well in life. I'm starting my dream job, I love my house, my husband is my best friend.
> 
> We get along fine, he shows me he loves me in many ways, we have shared hobbies, we have fun together, he is a good provider, we have sex 2 or 3 times a week, and I orgasm nearly every time.
> 
> And yet, there is a still a part that I crave. I try to tell myself it doesn't matter, or that I can deal without it. But daily I am constantly reminded that something is missing.
> 
> Like a silly song playing on the radio that says, "I hear angels every time that you moan... Every time you get undressed, I hear symphonies in my head." He makes a disgusted look and abruptly shuts it off. "Ugh, that song is horrible. No one really thinks like that." And I feel a twinge of sadness.
> 
> Or when I hear women making jokes or complaining about their men always pursuing them, and driving them crazy. I make a half hearted smile and nod in pretend agreement, like I actually know what they are talking about.
> 
> I think of the all potential I could unlock with a better suited sex partner. Would I have morning sex? Would we go on a weekend sex marathon? Would we be having adventurous monkey sex? Would they enjoy my sexual advances, and grin when I flaunt my naked body and wink?
> 
> I feel depressed, and then I feel upset at myself that I can't just be happy with what I have. I know rationally that my sex life isn't that bad. But then, why do I feel so incomplete?
> 
> TheCuriousWife is feeling melancholy today.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> We're climbing the same mountain.
> 
> I've been talking to my husband about this very thing. He is frustrated that I don't perceive his actions that show love and desire. Before he left for his business trip this week we had a chat and he did say some wonderful things that FELT sincere. I want more of that. I want to be his Cinnabon. LOL, know what I mean?


Yes. I understand perfectly. I feel the exact same way.

I just want him to have a uncontrollable, desire, and lust for me. I want him to get excited when I greet him at the door with a grin and a bit of lace peeking out from under my clothes. I want him to hurry home from work because he can't wait to see me. Sigh. 

Instead. When we had agreed upon plans last night to have sex one last time before my period, he dawdles at his parents all evening until too late for sex. We come home, and go to sleep without so much as a word about our plans. 

Even though I wore a fancy bra all day, and see through lace panties in expectation to surprise him. 

Last night, I made sure to strip down to my fancy duds and spend a good while brushing my teeth, washing my face, etc. Just so he could see what he missed out on. It didn't phase him. He told me to scoot over, and he did his nightly bathroom routine without any extra comments and went to bed without seemingly even noticing. 

Talk about an ego killer.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening TheCuriousWife
> I know it doesn't help, but I know exactly how you feel. I was in that situation for 25 years - living a "perfect" life.
> 
> Richard Cory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> When things did improve at home (and I still don't know why they did) life was immeasurably better. Sex and intimacy are vital to happiness. You never will just get used to the lack.
> 
> You should be with someone who smiles when they see your naked body. Someone who gives you a hug before dinner - a hug that gets a bit out of hand and suggests that they want to do you right now on the dining room table.
> 
> 
> I wish I could help.


I agree. I don't think you can ever really get used to it and accept it. 

Even though I am better than I used to be. Despite my best tries, it still bothers me. Albeit not as badly.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening TheCuriousWife
For me one of the biggest changes was when my wife started to appreciate that I was sexually attracted to her rather than (as had been the case for decades) be offended by it. 

It so nice that now when she noticed that I tended to stare up at her when she walked up the stairs while wearing something short, rather than act like I'm a pervert she now goes out of her way to do it.

I appreciate that she got me a bathrobe that has a tendency to slip open accidentally - and that she wants me to wear it.

As important is it is to have more sex, being desired is even more important to me.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. I understand perfectly. I feel the exact same way.
> 
> I just want him to have a uncontrollable, desire, and lust for me. I want him to get excited when I greet him at the door with a grin and a bit of lace peeking out from under my clothes. I want him to hurry home from work because he can't wait to see me. Sigh.
> 
> Instead. When we had agreed upon plans last night to have sex one last time before my period, he dawdles at his parents all evening until too late for sex. We come home, and go to sleep without so much as a word about our plans.
> 
> Even though I wore a fancy bra all day, and see through lace panties in expectation to surprise him.
> 
> Last night, I made sure to strip down to my fancy duds and spend a good while brushing my teeth, washing my face, etc. Just so he could see what he missed out on. It didn't phase him. He told me to scoot over, and he did his nightly bathroom routine without any extra comments and went to bed without seemingly even noticing.
> 
> Talk about an ego killer.


Yup. BTDT. Don't have an answer either.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I don't know if it is possible to teach him to connect his emotions with anything that strongly. I don't think his "joy meter" goes that high. I think he has only two settings for emotions. "Acceptable" or "Not Acceptable." Sex is acceptable and no sex is not acceptable. His wife is acceptable.
> 
> *I wonder how many men are like that and I wonder how normal that is?*


I don't think it is a gender thing. I think it mostly has to do with our upbringing. Families tend to pass down this "lack of expressed desire" along with "lack of showing appreciation". I know one woman who doesn't know how to be supportive to her own kids, because no one was ever supportive to her, so she simply has no idea what to say. She's aware that this is odd and she "should" say supportive things to them, but when she tries, she finds she has no words.

Anyway...I'm sorry Anon, CW, and Scarlett, too. I wish I could bag up some of the stuff you wish you had and send it to you with a big bow on top for Xmas. I don't think I could live without it, now that I have it so good like that. As you all know, my marriage has plenty of other issues, but I do get the courting and pursuit and lust you three are missing...hearing you talk about it makes me feel so thankful for having it.

However, keep in mind...this is my second marriage. I had a second chance to get it right this time. And one of the things I made SURE I had, was that feeling of being pursued and lusted after you three are describing. NOTHING LESS would have been acceptable to me.

So...I hope you three will remember the same if you do (god forbid) end up on the market again one day. NEVER settle for less than all you want in that area again. Because here's the deal: why get hitched or tied down again at ALL if he's not going to act the way you want him to? Just stay single and keep dating all the lovely men who want to give you that attention. There's no reason to be tied to one who won't (not meaning your current husbands).

I'd say the same for men, too. There are women who won't show any desire or lust for their men (or they don't have any to show). If a man is in that position, I would hope he would NEVER settle for that again if he gets a second chance.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Rationally I think, no one has a perfect marriage. *If I were to get better sex with someone else, I would have to compromise on something else.* But you're right. It never gets any easy.


So not true, so not true!! I found the love of my life, and he is everything and MORE that my "perfect" marriage was not! He has a great job (career), great income, he's handsome, intellectual, funny, same sense of humor, non-judgmental, laid-back, capable, sexy, virile, and the consummate Alpha lover...



TheCuriousWife said:


> *I just want him to have a uncontrollable, desire, and lust for me*. I want him to get excited when I greet him at the door with a grin and a bit of lace peeking out from under my clothes. I want him to hurry home from work because he can't wait to see me. Sigh.


Just like tonight... We got home from the grocery store tonight. Before I could even get the first bag unloaded (sorry if this is TMI) SO was ripping my jeans off to do "untold unmentionables" because he couldn't wait any longer. :rofl:

To deny yourself this kind of love, passion, romance because he's a "good guy' and your "best friend" is a real travesty. I know, I lived this dullness for 20 years.

There IS more to life and marriage CW. You deserve more.

Somewhere out there in the universe is a perfect lover/partner who is screaming for your body and wants to pleasure you in ways beyond comprehension. But it's not the man you chose to marry. You have no kids; IMHO it's time to get out. 

But if your marriage feels "safe" to you, you can just "settle." Sorry to be harsh.

Just sayin'...


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Equating food with an orgasmic feeling does not compute for this male. Huge amount of lust and desire for my wife but food? WTH?

As far as holding out for this lust and desire the second time around goes do you women think that is easily identifiable in a potential male mate? In other words, do you currently feel you just missed something while dating or did it change afterwards. My passion remains unaltered after well over a decade, hers not so much at all. Love yes, passion quickly disappeared. Which leaves you with the bait and switch feeling which is perhaps not fair but there none the less.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> Equating food with an orgasmic feeling does not compute for this male. Huge amount of lust and desire for my wife but food? WTH?
> 
> As far as holding out for this lust and desire the second time around goes do you women think that is easily identifiable in a potential male mate? In other words, do you currently feel you just missed something while dating or did it change afterwards. My passion remains unaltered after well over a decade, hers not so much at all. Love yes, passion quickly disappeared. Which leaves you with the bait and switch feeling which is perhaps not fair but there none the less.


As I stated a long time ago, there was no indication that I would be battling this. Before marriage we were all over each other. For HOURS we would make out. I honestly thought I would be the LD one in our relationship, because he couldn't seem to get enough. I was worried I wouldn't be able to keep up.

I can't even remember the last time we did anything intimate that lasted hours. It's been probably since the honey moon.

I remember one time before marriage we were discussing how much sex we expected of each other. He was quick to say, "Oh every day, definitely." My eyes nearly popped out of my head, and I let out a squeak. "EVERY day? What about our lives, won't we be busy? I think once a week is more reasonable." 

Oh the irony. 

PS. I was a stupid stupid girl.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> So not true, so not true!! I found the love of my life, and he is everything and MORE that my "perfect" marriage was not! He has a great job (career), great income, he's handsome, intellectual, funny, same sense of humor, non-judgmental, laid-back, capable, sexy, virile, and the consummate Alpha lover...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like tonight... We got home from the grocery store tonight. Before I could even get the first bag unloaded (sorry if this is TMI) SO was ripping my jeans off to do "untold unmentionables" because he couldn't wait any longer. :rofl:
> 
> To deny yourself this kind of love, passion, romance because he's a "good guy' and your "best friend" is a real travesty. I know, I lived this dullness for 20 years.
> 
> There IS more to life and marriage CW. You deserve more.
> 
> Somewhere out there in the universe is a perfect lover/partner who is screaming for your body and wants to pleasure you in ways beyond comprehension. But it's not the man you chose to marry. You have no kids; IMHO it's time to get out.
> 
> But if your marriage feels "safe" to you, you can just "settle." Sorry to be harsh.
> 
> Just sayin'...


I'm glad yours worked out so well. That isn't always the case.

And my marriage just isn't safe. I love 90% of it. Rationally I can not throw out 90% of happiness for the 10% I don't have. 

Maybe some day, not today.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"My eyes nearly popped out of my head, and I let out a squeak."

That's adorable. How your guy can resist that is beyond me.........


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I remember one time before marriage we were discussing how much sex we expected of each other. He was quick to say, "Oh every day, definitely." My eyes nearly popped out of my head, and I let out a squeak. "EVERY day? What about our lives, won't we be busy? I think once a week is more reasonable."
> 
> Oh the irony.
> 
> PS. I was a stupid stupid girl.


I can remember saying "I'll never turn you down, this was after a 14 hour drive FWIW", I've kept that promise


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
I think I have turned my wife down less than half a dozen times in 25 years - and those were when I was utterly exhausted after a 20 hour straight shift at work, or because there was something really critical I needed to do at work. 

I make a serious effort to seduce her several times a week, and make it clear every day that I would be more than happy to spend the evening in bed. I have never chosen any other activity fore entertainment over sex. 

On any occasions where I am not physically up for sex (so to speak...) I am very happy to please he in other ways.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And my marriage just isn't safe. I love 90% of it. Rationally I can not throw out 90% of happiness for *the 10% I don't have.*


This is just my opinion CW, but the "10% you don't have" is worth FAR MORE than "just" 10% in a marriage.

The MAIN thing that sets apart your relationship with your husband from ALL other relationships in your life is SEX, intimacy, bonding, coupling. To reduce that to a mere "10%" is really selling your relationship short.

We all have friends, children, parents, siblings, coworkers, acquaintances, etc... they occupy a certain "place" in our hierarchy of relationships. But our spouse or partner is the ONLY one of all of those *who we have sex with....*

To accept that your partner is like EVERY OTHER relationship in your life -- best friend, similar humor, common interests, financially responsible, etc. (and you only set them apart from all others by a SLIM margin of 10%) flies in the face of what marriage really is all about.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening all
despite everything else being "perfect", when we didn't have intimacy I was basically unhappy. When intimacy is good, I am basically happy - even if other things aren't so good. 

It is not a small thing, it is absolutely vital.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> despite everything else being "perfect", when we didn't have intimacy I was basically unhappy. When intimacy is good, I am basically happy - even if other things aren't so good.
> 
> It is not a small thing, it is absolutely vital.


And that was the hardest thing for my husband to get, that that one little thing would make everything bad but it does.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



richardsharpe said:


> As important is it is to have more sex, being desired is even more important to me.


Yes. That says it all!!!

I wonder how many people think of their spouses as "second class members" of the "great sexual marriage club"? For those not familiar with that phrase, a second class member is someone who "talks the talk," but doesn't "walk the walk," such as a smoker who agrees (and in some sense very genuinely believes) that smoking is bad, and yet doesn't quit. So he can have great comradery with his non-smoking friends, but he still gets to smoke. (He's a second class non-smoker, AKA, a smoker!)

I think in the absence of actual ambivalence, most people would just end their marriages. When one's spouse claims desire for a passionate sexual marriage, it might not be a lie, even if it's not a priority. Intentional lies are actually easier to detect, and react to. Not so with ambivalence.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

On a creepy side note. My best friend is getting married next weekend while I'm on vacation, and has asked if she could use our house for her honeymoon. 

Ew.

She says they don't want to waste money on a hotel. 

Husband said no way jose. They are not getting funky in our bed. 

I agree it's weird. We don't have any guest rooms or anything. And our house is getting remodeled. We don't even have trim up and there are ladders and lumber, etc stacked in the livingroom. It's not exactly a romantic getaway. 

Would you ask your friend if you could use their bed for your honeymoon? Weird, or no?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> On a creepy side note. My best friend is getting married next weekend while I'm on vacation, and has asked if she could use our house for her honeymoon.
> 
> Ew.
> 
> She says they don't want to waste money on a hotel.
> 
> Husband said no way jose. They are not getting funky in our bed.
> 
> I agree it's weird. We don't have any guest rooms or anything. And our house is getting remodeled. We don't even have trim up and there are ladders and lumber, etc stacked in the livingroom. It's not exactly a romantic getaway.
> 
> Would you ask your friend if you could use their bed for your honeymoon? Weird, or no?


Absolutely Not!! How instrusive. I would use the renovations as an excuse to decline her request or, just come out and tell her that you don't feel comfortable having someone stay in your home while away and leave it at that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Absolutely Not!! How instrusive. I would use the renovations as an excuse to decline her request or, just come out and tell her that you don't feel comfortable having someone stay in your home while away and leave it at that.


:iagree:

Don't worry. I already told her, "Sorry, but no."

I just thought it was odd. I certainly don't want any images in my head about what my best friend and her new husband would be doing in my bed. That just seems to cross some sort of unwritten boundary. lol


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you already gotten the wedding present? Maybe a few nights in a hotel would be a good gift.

I would not be ok with someone using my bed for their honeymoon either.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Have you already gotten the wedding present? Maybe a few nights in a hotel would be a good gift.
> 
> I would not be ok with someone using my bed for their honeymoon either.


I already gave her a gift. And I sure as heck couldn't afford a several night stay in a hotel. I couldn't even afford it for me. 

Sorry. But I think this falls under, not my problem... Hate to say, but she made her life choices. Which includes not wanting to work, and only planning her wedding a month in advance.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Is this the friend that confided in you that she wasn't happy with her sex life and wasn't sure about getting married?

Anyway, Happy is right. Although I won't tell you to get out, I will tell you, you have no idea what you are missing. You do NOT have to compromise if you take your time and be careful in your screening. You CAN have it all. 

I thought my first marriage was pretty good. Until the lack of desire from my wife got to be more than I could stand. Now I know that the other parts of the marriage weren't all that good either. They just weren't bad. 

Curious, did you know the enemy of GREAT is not HORRIBLE? The enemy of GREAT is OK.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Same friend. I worry about her.

He doesn't like sex. And if he does have sex, he only wants quickies, no foreplay. And he refuses to get her oral, because she "smells and tastes funny." I just want to smack him.

I told her it won't get better. But she made her own choices. They are going to sex counseling. 

My husband told me not to worry about missing her wedding, because we can just go to her next one... I hate to be a pessimist. But their relationship is rocky to say the least.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And I know it's possible I could have it all if I got divorce. 

It's quite possible I would be happy, and be having more sex, find the man of my dreams, etc.

But I love my husband. And I'm willing to stick it out, right now.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And I know it's possible I could have it all if I got divorce.
> 
> It's quite possible I would be happy, and be having more sex, find the man of my dreams, etc.
> 
> But I love my husband. And I'm willing to stick it out, right now.


Ok, just didn't want you to think it's IMPOSSIBLE. Please keep your options open.

And :rofl: at your husband saying you can go to her next wedding! Is he talking about their sex problems or is there something else? 

Smell and taste.... seems to be a common excuse. I wonder if the low drive plays a factor in perception.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Ok, just didn't want you to think it's IMPOSSIBLE. Please keep your options open.
> 
> And :rofl: at your husband saying you can go to her next wedding! Is he talking about their sex problems or is there something else?
> 
> Smell and taste.... seems to be a common excuse. I wonder if the low drive plays a factor in perception.


I will.

And they have so many problems besides just sex, it's ridiculous. So many red flags. 

I'm not sure. My husband used to complain about my taste and smell. But I don't think he would dare say something so rude like that anymore. That doesn't mean he doesn't think it still.

I don't get what the deal is. Honestly, especially here lately, I have been really aroused by my own smell. I smell just heavenly if I do say so myself. 

I'm not sure why some guys don't like it.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

At great risk of exposing true identity, I'm going to say I have no sense of smell. No idea why. Never had one that I can remember. So, I can't comment on the smell, but the taste is in-freaking-credible.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening the curious wife
do you think you are making him happy, or maybe he senses your unhappiness?



TheCuriousWife said:


> And I know it's possible I could have it all if I got divorce.
> 
> It's quite possible I would be happy, and be having more sex, find the man of my dreams, etc.
> 
> But I love my husband. And I'm willing to stick it out, right now.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> At great risk of exposing true identity, I'm going to say I have no sense of smell. No idea why. Never had one that I can remember. So, I can't comment on the smell, but the taste is in-freaking-credible.


Okay, so men really DO like the taste? This is fascinating to me. My husband has always told me he loves the way I taste, but I don't think I've ever really believed it. I figured he really just means he loves doing it. I never took him literally about the taste. So, you _literally_ like the taste?! [Amazed look on face...]

For some reason, its hard for many women to believe that men might genuinely dig the way we taste.  Very enlightening.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Okay, so men really DO like the taste? This is fascinating to me. My husband has always told me he loves the way I taste, but I don't think I've ever really believed it. I figured he really just means he loves doing it. I never took him literally about the taste. So, you _literally_ like the taste?! [Amazed look on face...]
> 
> For some reason, its hard for many women to believe that men might genuinely dig the way we taste.  Very enlightening.


Well, it's not like it's chocolate syrup but yes.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> As I stated a long time ago, there was no indication that I would be battling this. Before marriage we were all over each other. For HOURS we would make out. I honestly thought I would be the LD one in our relationship, because he couldn't seem to get enough. I was worried I wouldn't be able to keep up.
> 
> I can't even remember the last time we did anything intimate that lasted hours. It's been probably since the honey moon.
> 
> I remember one time before marriage we were discussing how much sex we expected of each other. He was quick to say, "Oh every day, definitely." My eyes nearly popped out of my head, and I let out a squeak. "EVERY day? What about our lives, won't we be busy? I think once a week is more reasonable."
> 
> Oh the irony.
> 
> PS. I was a stupid stupid girl.



I was all set to click "Like" and then you threw in the "I was a stupid stupid girl."

Stop that, please. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume you were a very bright, loving, emotionally generous and open young woman, doing the best with the knowledge and life experience she had.

I don't have any real wisdom to offer you, nor a time machine for you to go back and apply it, but in the present time and place my hunch is if you are too hard on your younger self it will be counterproductive. 

I know you were being lighthearted (err, I hope) in that comment. But, perhaps there is a way to be lighthearted AND kind to the younger Curious (Not Yet) Wife.

I do the same to myself, at times, and some of those times not so lightheartedly. I know it to be habit forming, and hard to see one doing it to oneself.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't worry, it was just a joke.

I was only doing and acting how I knew how. Thankfully I'm a little wiser now. Although I am sure I still have a long way to go.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening the curious wife
> do you think you are making him happy, or maybe he senses your unhappiness?


I think I make him happy. At least that is what he tells me.

Why shouldn't he be? I cook for him, clean for him, decent house and job, and he gets all the sex he wants. Well more than he wants. lol.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Day 7 here of no sex. I'm doing okay. Well fine actually. I'm not pouting or upset in the least. So that's good. 

We had have a make out session a few days ago. It was a lot of fun, and I did relieve him. It was my own choice, and not a blow job. I'm not resentful about it. 

Leaving on vacation in 2 days. Hoping to have a good and relaxing time.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Okay, so men really DO like the taste? This is fascinating to me. My husband has always told me he loves the way I taste, but I don't think I've ever really believed it. I figured he really just means he loves doing it. I never took him literally about the taste. So, you _literally_ like the taste?! [Amazed look on face...]
> 
> For some reason, its hard for many women to believe that men might genuinely dig the way we taste.  Very enlightening.


Literally. I don't know if it's because I love sex so much or what, but if I found a food that tasted exactly the same it would be my new favorite! 

I know you ladies are reluctant to believe us. And some guys obviously don't like it, but if a guy goes out of his way to tell you he likes the taste he's probably telling the truth. If I didn't actually like the taste I just wouldn't mention it one way or the other.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Jealous.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening justfabulous
I enjoy giving my wife oral just because of her reactions. It wouldn't do anything for me if she didn't enjoy it. 



justfabulous said:


> Okay, so men really DO like the taste? This is fascinating to me. My husband has always told me he loves the way I taste, but I don't think I've ever really believed it. I figured he really just means he loves doing it. I never took him literally about the taste. So, you _literally_ like the taste?! [Amazed look on face...]
> 
> For some reason, its hard for many women to believe that men might genuinely dig the way we taste.  Very enlightening.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening TheCuriousWife
I think my wife was unhappy all of the time that she was LD. I did everything for her, but she could sense that I was unhappy, and that made her unhappy.

When you love someone, their happiness is the most important thing in the world to you. 


Many LD people simply don't understand how sex and happiness are tied together. You can tell them over and over but they simply don't get it. They see it as at most something that provides momentary pleasure. To them its like telling someone "I'm unhappy with my life because I don't get to eat a candy bar every day". It seems ridiculous, irrelevant. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> I think I make him happy. At least that is what he tells me.
> 
> Why shouldn't he be? I cook for him, clean for him, decent house and job, and he gets all the sex he wants. Well more than he wants. lol.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't think I buy that LD don't 'get it'.

I buy that it isn't necessarily their fault that they are 'LD'.

I buy that there can be lots' of contributing factors that come into play, including negative contributions from HD partner.

I buy that they don't FULLY comprehend the negative impact that that their denial may have on the denied.

But on some level, they know. Sorry, it's not as simple as eating candy. It is understood universally that marriage is largely about sex. No one goes into marriage thinking "ok, we'll have to have sex twice a year". No one.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just realized it's actually day 8... not that it matters. lol


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry I am too lazy to read your whole thread. So, aside from sex, does your H show you affection and love?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ConanHub said:


> Sorry I am too lazy to read your whole thread. So, aside from sex, does your H show you affection and love?


That's fine. It's very long. lol

He shows me love a lot in other non physical ways. Affection is iffy. Not much contact like hand holding, hugging, or kissing. Although he does spoon me while we sleep, and every once in a while he will hold me while we are watching tv or something. 

We can go days without though. And anything we do is very brief.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening Jorgagene
formerly LD people here have suggested as much. 

It seems difficult to believe, but it is the only think that matches the behavior. 



jorgegene said:


> I don't think I buy that LD don't 'get it'.
> 
> I buy that it isn't necessarily their fault that they are 'LD'.
> 
> I buy that there can be lots' of contributing factors that come into play, including negative contributions from HD partner.
> 
> I buy that they don't FULLY comprehend the negative impact that that their denial may have on the denied.
> 
> But on some level, they know. Sorry, it's not as simple as eating candy. It is understood universally that marriage is largely about sex. No one goes into marriage thinking "ok, we'll have to have sex twice a year". No one.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Any progress on scheduling the doctor appointment?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Smell and taste.... seems to be a common excuse. I wonder if the low drive plays a factor in perception.


I believe it does. With working on my husbands T from the natural side, we had lots of ups and downs. It seemed when he slipped down he really disliked the smell and taste. But when his levels are up he's very into it. When he's low he goes soft during giving me oral but when his T is up he gets rock solid during it. It was quite disturbing for a time, I felt like he was faking when he seemed into it but no it's all hormones.



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening TheCuriousWife
> I think my wife was unhappy all of the time that she was LD. I did everything for her, but she could sense that I was unhappy, and that made her unhappy.
> 
> When you love someone, their happiness is the most important thing in the world to you.
> 
> 
> Many LD people simply don't understand how sex and happiness are tied together. You can tell them over and over but they simply don't get it. They see it as at most something that provides momentary pleasure. To them its like telling someone "I'm unhappy with my life because I don't get to eat a candy bar every day". It seems ridiculous, irrelevant.


That is my husband, thought it is something fun to do. Did not get the totally bonding experience it is to me. It is my reset button.



jorgegene said:


> I don't think I buy that LD don't 'get it'.
> 
> I buy that it isn't necessarily their fault that they are 'LD'.
> 
> I buy that there can be lots' of contributing factors that come into play, including negative contributions from HD partner.
> 
> I buy that they don't FULLY comprehend the negative impact that that their denial may have on the denied.
> 
> But on some level, they know. Sorry, it's not as simple as eating candy. It is understood universally that marriage is largely about sex. No one goes into marriage thinking "ok, we'll have to have sex twice a year". No one.


Maybe it's a cop out for some but not my husband.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Jorgagene
> *formerly LD people* here have suggested as much.
> 
> It seems difficult to believe, but it is the only think that matches the behavior.


There are different reasons that people are LD. Some are naturally LD, born that way, and may have had more sex early in a relationship because that is common for everyone, yet their true LD nature will come out later.

There are other people who are LD for situational reasons, such as:

*currently have young kids

*under long term stress

*current (sometimes long term) relationship issues 

*just not that into spouse

*medical conditions

*CSA victims

*avoiding or withholding sex for any reason yet actually still wants sex, just not with you

These are just some of the reasons someone might be situationally LD, but there are many other possible reasons.

Please don't confuse those cases of natural baseline LD with situational LD. Situational LD can change, baseline LD cannot.

If you confuse the two types of LD, you are doing a disservice to those who always have been LD and always will be by assuming that they are simply just "withholding" or that they somehow are the "wrong" way to be and HD is the "right" way to be.

We have stories here of people who were LD for situational reasons in their current relationships and who worked on their issues and brought back their sex drive. I assume those are the people you are talking about. Yet those stories mean nothing to someone who was always LD and always will be.

CW's husband is naturally LD. People can still have situational reasons on top of their natural inclination and then be even more LD than their nature. But this doesn't mean they can be "cured" of their LD.

We need to accept that people are vastly different sexually, and if we did that and stopped expecting those who aren't like us to change, we could all be a lot happier.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening all
Faithful Wife has a really good point - situational LD is very different from chronic LD. I can be difficult to tell though, if communication isn't good.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> I believe it does. With working on my husbands T from the natural side, we had lots of ups and downs. It seemed when he slipped down he really disliked the smell and taste. But when his levels are up he's very into it. When he's low he goes soft during giving me oral but when his T is up he gets rock solid during it. It was quite disturbing for a time, I felt like he was faking when he seemed into it but no it's all hormones.



My husband goes soft during oral on me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Any progress on scheduling the doctor appointment?


No. I've tried to talk to my doctor friend several times, but our schedules just haven't been able to link up. She knows I want to talk to her about it though. Hoping after the new year.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Vacation went well. It was fun and we had a good time.

He has been more vocal, giving oral more frequently, using dirty talk, etc. More passionate in bed in general recently. Sadly I'm not feeling the same. I'm not turning him down by any means. But I just haven't been feeling as aroused during sex. I want to be excited and passionate, but it has been taking me longer to orgasm. It's like my body and my mind doesn't agree.

It's starting to feel like we are going through the motions as a means to an end. I get my orgasm and then he gets his, then we clean up and go about our business. 

I'm not sure what is wrong with me. I think about sex, I get excited about it. But when it comes down to having it I feel disappointed or like, "wow that's it." I guess it just isn't living up to my expectations. 

It feels too short and too routine. I have been reading some romantic type books. I think maybe they are causing me to wish my sex life was more genuine and romantic, and I know that is wrong of me.

I want flirting, I want lusty looks across the room, I want that romantic walk in the park, or staying up all night because we can't keep our hands off each other... 

Instead we go to work everyday, and do mundane "normal" life. Then maybe after dinner he will say something like, "we can have sex if you want?" Then I will shower, and we will kiss for a few minutes, he will rub me until I have an orgasm, then he will thrust for a couple minutes until he is done and we will clean up and go our separate ways. 

Real life isn't a storybook, and it's disappointing.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

I wanted the storybook immigrant success book life. I got it. For all the good it has done to me.

Humans have an amazing trait called adaptability. If your expectation of romance and married life is a bit more than what you have it's natural to reminisce about what could have been if you had married some Christian Gray tycoon, but eventually reality catches up with you. It always does. 

It's natural to be concerned about your situation but think long term vs short term. If you think your intimate life is a concern wait till you encounter kids, layoffs, hardships, health issues, and other things of that nature.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Rationally I know it's not right to expect life to be like a fictional book. But that doesn't keep me from craving it occasionally.

I am extremely stressed right now, and I'm sure that has something to do with my melancholy attitude. 

He is certainly trying, and he has been very sweet to me. More snuggles, and kisses. He is a good man.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Real life isn't a storybook, and it's disappointing.


I can personally attest that real life CAN be a storybook. IF you are with the right person, someone you are truly compatible with. Someone with whom you are a fit in every way that matters. Someone with whom you have *chemistry. *. Chemistry is KEY. And chemistry is real, it exists -- it does not occur_ only in the movies or romance novels._

I'm 30 years into my storybook romance (22 years of which are married years). We are as crazy for each other and as passionate today as we were when we met when we were 17. Actually, in some ways its even hotter between us now than it was back then. If that's possible LOL. (It was pretty hot back then!).

The importance of being with someone with whom there is *real chemistry* can not be emphasized enough, I believe, if you are really to find fulfillment and a truly satisfying relationship/marriage. Chemistry means you both feel the same level of electricity and passion for each other -- the feelings are entirely mutual. Chemistry means you both totally connect with each other in every way: intellectually, emotionally, values, principles, lifestyle, and, very importantly - _sexually_. If you have all the rest, but the sexual chemistry isn't right and mutual, I think what you have is a good friendship (unless sex isn't important to either, because then you are a match).

Saying this is not intended to make you feel bad about what you dont have. Its intended to help you realize that there may be much greater fulfillment in life for you -with someone you are truly compatible with. Marriage can be exciting, fully fulfilling and passionate. 

All I'm saying is please don't convince yourself that it does not exist and that it is not possible. That would be a huge mistake. Worse, it would be a lie. Because it is not true.

I nearly did that once. I had a relationship before I met my husband. He was my 1st boyfriend, in highschool - we had a year and 1/2 relationship. He was brilliant, cute, charming, very well liked and respected guy who treated me like gold and wanted to spend forever with me - he planned to get engaged as soon as we finished highschool, and wanted to marry me right after getting his degree. But I felt no chemistry with him. I really wasnt into him. He didnt turn me on. I wanted more. My girlfriends said I was nuts - they thought he was the perfect guy. And he WAS wonderful in every way - except I felt no chemistry. Ultimately, I came very, very close to settling after convincing myself that real passion and fireworks only happened in the movies, and that therefore, he was probably the best I could ever hope for. Fortunately, fate intervened just as I was starting to get those crazy thoughts, and we parted ways. 

Just one month after that relationship ended, right after high school graduation, I went on to meet the love of my life (aka the sexiest man alive!). He was all the good things the other guy was, plus a 1000 times more. He was literally the man of my fantasies. That was when I discovered, Holy Cr^p! Fireworks between 2 people is REAL! That stuff does NOT just happen _in the movies_. This guy ROCKED MY WORLD, and apparently I rock his! And 30 years later... we continue to live happily ever after. Rockin' on 

How many times I have thought back to how close I came to settling. And how different my life would have been. All the richness and color and flavor of life I would have missed through all these years. In a way, I would have been missing out of _truly living_. And had I stayed in that relationship even 1 month longer, I would have missed the opportunity to meet and marry the man I truly belong with. 

In some ways, I look at you and think... _There but for the grace of God go I..._ I came so close to being you. And my wish for you is that somehow you will find the happy ending that I have been living for these last 30 years to the present moment. I know this is a very hard situation for you. And I really hope you find your happily ever after, whatever it takes for you to find true fulfillment.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Great Post JustFabulous!! Like you, I have been with my husband for 30 years and I experience the sparks and chemistry too!! I am so very, very thankful for the relationship I have with my husband.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I just want to add that when I say real life can be a story book, that isn't to say that you will never have problems, either between the 2 of you, or problems the two of you must face from the outside world. 

But when you are with the person who is truly the right match for you, and with whom you have a powerful sexual connection, it is, in fact, much easier to weather the storms, whether they are storms between you, or storms outside. The sexual connection can sometimes actually be the glue that helps to hold you together through the storms. It allows you to comfort each other in a way that nothing and no one else can, it gives you a powerful way to connect/ reconnect through difficult times, and enables you to regenerate each other through difficult times like nothing else can. Sometimes that regeneration makes the difference between whether you have the strength and drive to keep going, or whether you succumb to defeat during troubled times and those periods when life in general is a struggle. Again, I am speaking from experience.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, while having a "permanent honeymoon" or your life read like a perpetual romance novel is not realistic, you most definitely can get more out of intimacy than what you are currently getting. My guess is that he gives the impression that he compartmentalizes intimacy for the bedroom, and once you're out of the bedroom then the switch flips off. You just want to know that you are desired by your husband. But it looks more like your husband is stepping up to the plate out of fear of losing you and not out of a genuine desire to be with you. Maybe that is what you are sensing (possibly perceiving?) - that his efforts are forced and not natural.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Great Post JustFabulous!! Like you, I have been with my husband for 30 years and I experience the sparks and chemistry too!! I am so very, very thankful for the relationship I have with my husband.



Awesome to know Karole! Yay for 30 years together! More proof that chemistry is not just a fabrication which exists in storybooks and movies. Chemistry is real. And when it is real, it survives the test(s) of time, which is... blissful.

But you can not create chemistry. Not_ real chemistry_, anyway. Its either there or it isn't.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> CW, while having a "permanent honeymoon" or your life read like a perpetual romance novel is not realistic, you most definitely can get more out of intimacy than what you are currently getting. My guess is that he gives the impression that he compartmentalizes intimacy for the bedroom, and once you're out of the bedroom then the switch flips off. You just want to know that you are desired by your husband. But it looks more like your husband is stepping up to the plate out of fear of losing you and not out of a genuine desire to be with you. Maybe that is what you are sensing (possibly perceiving?) - that his efforts are forced and not natural.


:iagree:

Yes this is it! 

He is great in bed but outside the bedroom intimacy and affection is lack luster at best. 

So when he tries in the bedroom, like you said, I feel like he is just doing the correct motions to get me off because he knows I expect it. I don’t really believe that he is doing it because he truly desires me, even though he says so. Past history and actions have shown differently. MissScarlet also struggles with this, and we have talked about it before. 

I should be happy that he tries, and he does. But faked and/forced intimacy is just not the same as the real genuine thing. I can’t really tell which it is anymore, so I automatically assume the worst. 

I don’t know what he could do at this point to reset the damage that has already been done. He has made a lot of changes, and improvement, but I still remember the bad times. I’m trying to let go and not let past history cloud my thoughts and judgement now. But I can’t help it. Those kind of things stick with you. 

I think it is just going to take a lot of time and commitment. But every time we have a failure or he reverts back to his old ways, I take it as a huge blow. 

Like this week. We are super busy every evening until very late. No sex since Saturday, and no time for sex in the future for several more days. I’m already horny, but all he says is sorry. It doesn’t seem to bother him in the slightest. I asked him if we could wake up early this morning and make time, but he said no that it was too early, we wouldn’t get enough sleep, etc. He has been nice about it, and is apologizing, and letting me fondle him and see him naked which he usually doesn’t. But it doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t a big enough priority to wake up an hour early, or to come home an hour earlier from spending time with his parents. Resulting in making me feel very undesired.


----------



## Joe75

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi CW

I wish to add my two cents what has been eloquently written by justfabulous and seconded by karole, for your consideration.

I been married close to 40 years to the woman that I was meant to marry. When I first met her, there was an instant connection, a ‘spark’, which had not occurred in my previous long-term relationships. Interesting enough we had not been intimate when I asked her to marry me. However, once our sex life started, it grew and flourish becoming an integral part of our marriage. But the thing was, we very rarely talked about it and never obsessive about it. It was just there based on honest emotions, and love and respect for each other. 

My wife and I are now in our sixties and unfortunately, age and illness can take its toll on one’s sex life. When parts of one’s life come to an end, what is helpful are memories without regret. I can look back on our sex life with happy reflections knowing when it comes to an end, it will of been a good run. Nevertheless, the ‘spark’ is still there. Thus, without bitterness, my wife and I will continue our journey together towards the sunset, still living happily ever after. 

CW, right now your life with your husband should be boundless hope and endless possibilities with much happiness. There will be disappointments; but, there should never be an ongoing disappointment with the person you chose to share the journey through life with. Fifty years from now, when you are looking towards the sunset, looking back on your marriage should be without regret. 

Best of the Season.

Joe75


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Joe75 said:


> CW, right now your life with your husband should be boundless hope and endless possibilities with much happiness. There will be disappointments; but, there should never be an ongoing disappointment with the person you chose to share the journey through life with. Fifty years from now, when you are looking towards the sunset, looking back on your marriage should be without regret. Joe75



Joe75, 

Extremely well said. In fact, that was _beautifully _said. 

And so, so, TRUE.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> I can personally attest that real life CAN be a storybook. IF you are with the right person, someone you are truly compatible with. Someone with whom you are a fit in every way that matters. Someone with whom you have *chemistry. *. Chemistry is KEY. *And chemistry is real, it exists -- it does not occur only in the movies or romance novels.
> *
> I'm 30 years into my storybook romance (22 years of which are married years). We are as crazy for each other and as passionate today as we were when we met when we were 17. Actually, in some ways its even hotter between us now than it was back then. If that's possible LOL. (It was pretty hot back then!).
> 
> The importance of being with someone with whom there is *real chemistry* can not be emphasized enough, I believe, if you are really to find fulfillment and a truly satisfying relationship/marriage. Chemistry means you both feel the same level of electricity and passion for each other -- the feelings are entirely mutual. *Chemistry means you both totally connect with each other in every way*: intellectually, emotionally, values, principles, lifestyle, and, very importantly - _sexually_. *If you have all the rest, but the sexual chemistry isn't right and mutual, I think what you have is a good friendship* (unless sex isn't important to either, because then you are a match).
> 
> Saying this is not intended to make you feel bad about what you dont have. Its intended to help you realize that there may be much greater fulfillment in life for you -with someone you are truly compatible with. Marriage can be exciting, fully fulfilling and passionate.
> 
> *All I'm saying is please don't convince yourself that it does not exist and that it is not possible. That would be a huge mistake. Worse, it would be a lie. Because it is not true.
> *


jf... I could have written your entire post, that's how strongly I believe in the *chemistry* of attraction/love. (Just look at my signature line below )

The only difference is... I DID marry the "perfect guy" (like your high school BF) and it was a disaster. After 20 years of a lackluster, no-sex, unfulfilling marriage I divorced him.

I am now in a LTR with an amazing man... more than 4 years now and the attraction and spark hasn't lessened one bit! Not even with the daily grind of work, juggling household responsibilities, step-families, etc.

I am a big believer that if you are with the right person, the spark and attraction never diminishes. Just look at Simply Amorous... her attraction for her husband (and his attraction for her) is as strong as ever, even after a decades-long marriage and a load of kids .


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> I can personally attest that real life CAN be a storybook....
> 
> Saying this is not intended to make you feel bad about what you dont have....
> 
> In some ways, I look at you and think... _There but for the grace of God go I..._


You may not intend to make CW feel bad, but it's interesting that you don't seem particularly concerned that you might.

Are people without storybook marriages, without storybook bodies, without storybook children, without storybook parents, without storybook careers, in short, without storybook lives, more empathetic and more concerned about writing things that offer little comfort and that might be perceived as gloating?


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



bestyet2be said:


> You may not intend to make CW feel bad, but it's interesting that you don't seem particularly concerned that you might.
> 
> Are people without storybook marriages, without storybook bodies, without storybook children, without storybook parents, without storybook careers, in short, without storybook lives, more empathetic and more concerned about writing things that offer little comfort and that might be perceived as gloating?


BestYet2Be, if I have touched a pain point for you in sharing what I have, I am genuinely sorry that that is the case. But this is CWs thread. What I wrote was for CW, who I believe is fully capable of considering what I shared, with no ill effect to her, and who may be able to benefit in some manner from such insights. 

Your comments seems unduly offensive. I do not post here to "gloat". And the fact that CW, as well as several others, hit the "like" button on the post you find so objectionable would seem to differ with your assertion that the insight I offered was in any way unwelcome, "of little comfort" or "might be perceived as gloating". I find objectionable your assertion that I lack empathy and your statement_ "you don't seem particularly concerned that  you might" make CW feel bad. I've been a participant in this thread for close to a year, and I've cheered CW on when it looked like she and her husband were making progress, I've offered advice on tangible things she could try to improve the situation with her husband, and I've chosen not to post in many instances when I felt CW was simply not ready to hear particular considerations or insights I could have offered her. My comments are always made with care, sensitivity and consideration. The entire reason I've stayed with this thread for so long is precisely because of the empathy I have for CW.

There was a reason I shared my story. CW made the statement to the effect that the passion and chemistry we see in storybooks, and which she has been craving, doesn't exist in reality. I happen to know otherwise. Why would I stand by and allow this young woman to persuade herself of that, to talk herself into "settling" for less than she is deserving of on the basis of that assumption, and set herself up for a long, long lifetime of increasing disappointment and lack of fulfillment -perhaps even bitterness, resentment, and emotional shut-down - when I know that assumption to be inaccurate? 

What draws me to this thread is genuine concern for this young woman who is clearly not feeling satisfied or fulfilled by certain aspects of her marriage - aspects which she has repeatedly indicated are very important to her, and rightly so. She comes here seeking honest opinions, advice, and insights from others. Curious is an intelligent, insightful, introspective, proactive, determined - and evidently very STRONG young woman. I don't believe for a moment that what she is really seeking when she posts here is a patronizing pat on the head, and to be told, "There, there, don't worry about it; everything will work out". I believe CW is genuinely seeking honest insights and to learn from the diverse experiences of others as she tries her darnedest to navigate her way through a situation she very unexpectedly found herself in as a young newlywed. A lot of people at TAM have already lived through decades of misery by the time they arrive here, and their best years are behind them. CW is unique in that she still has a long future ahead of her, she still has the opportunity for a lifetime of happiness, depending on how things play out for over the next little while. If I have an insight to share which may ultimately inspire her to not settle, at this very early stage in life, for anything less than what she deems important for her personal fulfillment, then why would I hold that in to myself and not offer it to her for consideration?

I relate to CW and her need for mutual passion, romance, chemistry, fireworks, and mutual desire with her husband - its how I am, and have always been. And like CW, when I was very young, I almost settled for something much less than would have been right for me by persuading myself that passion only happens in the movies, not in real life, and therefore it should not be on my criteria list - similar to what she expressed recently. Had I continued with that belief, a part of myself that enables me to know what it is to truly feel alive would have died a long time ago, and I don't want that to happen to CW. I came close to landing in CWs shoes - and so I really feel for her. Fortunately, I had the opportunity to move forward with my life and discover 1st hand that what she craves is NOT just a fabrication of fairy tales, romance novels, and movies. My message to CW is most certainly not one of gloating, it is intended to INSPIRE and empower her not to short change herself in life - it is one of encouragement: what you want IS real, it DOES exist, its not an unrealistic expectation - I know because I have it (even after 22 years of marriage), as do others who commented on my post. Therefore, it IS possible for CW as well. As I said in my previous post, the powerful connection, mutual chemistry and passion my husband of 22 years and I have together has carried me (us) through the dark times in life. And make no mistake, there have been many dark periods in our life - we are living through that again right now, in a very significant way. Its the chemistry we have between us that helps hold us together when the world is falling down around us. There is much love, yes, but over and above that there is real chemistry, and I credit this with being the extra glue that makes a marriage truly work. So, my point to CW is, if what she craves is real chemistry in her marriage, that's valid. And its important. Its not some female frivolousness. Based on my experience, its not just frosting on the cake, its a key ingredient. Maybe more so than many people even realize.

So when I think of this young woman, who I can identify with in a number of ways, headed straight down the road of resigning herself to settling for less than she had hoped for, less than she expected from marriage, less than she personally needs from marriage... and this at the very beginning of her married life no less...it makes my heart sink for her. I have thought many times through out the years how drastically different my life would have been if I had continued down that road that I too was once on. It literally makes me shudder. I want to see CW have a shot at the kind of fulfillment she wants in her marriage, the kind of fulfillment I KNOW does not just exist in storybooks, because I'm living proof. 

If back when I,too, was talking myself into "settling" on the basis that the fireworks I wanted in a relationship is not realistic and only exists in the movies... if, at that time, a person with more life experience than I had a perspective to share which would have allowed me to see that I was doing myself a disservice in drawing that conclusion, I would have been grateful to have those insights, rather than being left to navigate my way into an unfulfilling future based on my own mis-assumptions. Unlike myself way back then, CW has the benefit of the experience and insights of others which she can evaluate for herself and consider, and then make her own well informed decisions as to what is right for her - however she defines that. I suspect that is a big part of the reason she continues to come back to share her saga here.

I don't know your story BestYet2Be, but based on your user ID, my genuine wish for you is that the best is indeed yet to come._


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, you doing okay?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Been doing fine. I appreciate all the heart felt comments.

Nothing new to report. Sex is still routine, and not a lot of chemistry, but I find myself not really caring anymore. 

I still like sex, but my drive has slowed down a bit, and I don't feel so crazed 24/7 anymore. 

Husband does the initiating, and I don't ever turn it down, but I could take it or leave it. No more being desperate. 

Overall things are going well. There has been a lot of some big changes in life which could be the cause of my dampened drive. Or it could just be that I've finally realized that being miserable about it changes nothing. Whatever the reason it has been a good thing, and husband is still taking care of my needs every 2nd or 3rd day without any pushing from me. 

Thanks for checking up on me.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Glad you are doing well Curious. Has there been in progress in getting your husband a doctor's appointment? He really does need to do that - for himself.


----------



## bestyet2be

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> ...And like CW, when I was very young, I almost settled for something much less...
> I have thought many times through out the years how drastically different my life would have been if I had continued down that road that I too was once on. It literally makes me shudder.


The road not taken. How sure can anyone be where that road would have gone?

Obviously some people mesh more easily than others, and the challenges and rewards are surely very different, depending on which spouse one chooses.

But how can you be so sure your other roads would have been so bad? If you have a great capacity to love, you might have found love with many others.

I've heard that second marriages are sometimes more successful than first marriages, but I wonder if part of that is because people enter second marriages with much more sober anticipations of the potential challenges.

I'm reminded of the story about a house for sale. People look at the house, and then talk to this neighbor who's sitting on his front porch all day. Various people ask him, "How's the neighborhood? What are the people like here?"

The man asks, "Tell me, what were the people like in your old neighborhood?" The buyer answers, "Just terrible. That's one of the reasons I'm moving, to get away from them." The man replies, "Well, I'm sorry to say you'll probably find the people here pretty bad, too."

Another prospective buyer asks the same question, and the man asks again, "Tell me, what where the people like in your old neighborhood?" But this buyer answers, "Wonderful. I'm so sad I had to move. My old neighbors were just the greatest people." The man replies, "Well, I'm happy to say you'll probably find the people here pretty wonderful, too."

How ever the prospective buyers describe their former neighbors, he tells them the people here are pretty much the same.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well since Karole asked me to, I decided to pop in. Although I don't have much of an update.  

I'm doing fine. I have recently started a new job, doing what I love. So that's great news. We are currently planning a summer vacation, which is a little stressful. It's hard to match up train tickets and rental cars, and hotels, etc. Especially when the destination is over 24 hours away. But it's also very exciting. My family never took vacations as a child, while his goes nearly every year.

Husband has not and will not go back to the doctor for the time being. And I really don't have an argument anymore. Things are going fine, and we are having a lot less problems with erections although it does still happen occasionally. I do continue to bring it up and encourage it.

All of my friends are currently moved away so that is a little depressing. But it's temporary. A couple will be coming back in the summer, when they finish at college for good.

I'm not sure how much I'll be posting here anymore. I'd like to keep it around to update occasionally. But not at the frequency that I used to. We have a pretty normal sex life now, and I don't feel the need to bore you all with details. lol. 

I'm sure things will change over time, and we will go backwards occasionally. I'm sure there will be days when he rejects me and I'm upset. But thankfully I think the worst is behind us. :smthumbup:


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good to hear things are going well for you Curious - you deserve it. I hope you won't stay gone, you can help other people on this board. 

Hope you enjoy your new job. You will make new friends there I'm sure!! 

Enjoy your vacation, you deserve it!!

Take care,
Karole


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Really good to hear that you're in a good place. I don't know enough to speak about your husband, but _you_ certainly have put a lot of work into your relationship, so kudos to you, and may the good continue...


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Really good to hear that you're in a good place. I don't know enough to speak about your husband, but _you_ certainly have put a lot of work into your relationship, so kudos to you, and may the good continue...


I'm going to take a contrary opinion here (but then CW probably knew I would )... she is traveling down the same path I did.

Distraction (new job), complacency (he still refuses to go to the doctor but the limp erections have marginally improved), and acceptance ("Oh well, he will never be the lover I crave and dreamed of my whole life -- but gosh darn it, he's a nice guy, and people LIKE him!!")

Next, CW will be preggers, and then the whole hamster wheel starts all over again 

Pretty soon, it's 15-20 years of raising kids, resentment, little-boy syndrome, etc.

CW, I caution you to think long and hard about my three points:

1. Distraction
2. Complacency
3. Acceptance

Lest I fear you will be here in a few years posting in the "Going Through Divorce" forum.

Sorry if that's harsh. Been there, done that.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Or it could go a lot different (which Happy might expect me to say). We have to remember the people on the other end of the internet are not duplicates of you and your ex-spouse, just as I have to remember they are not duplicates of me and my spouse.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Or it could go a lot different (which Happy might expect me to say). We have to remember the people on the other end of the internet are not duplicates of you and your ex-spouse, just as I have to remember they are not duplicates of me and my spouse.


Ahhh... the eternal optimist!!

Nothing wrong with that, I applaud you!!! For every one couple like you, there are 10 more (at least) like me.

Sadly, the statistics are on my side. Just look at the divorce rate...


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Really good to hear that you're in a good place. I don't know enough to speak about your husband, but _*you*_ (CW -- NOT your husband) certainly have put a lot of work into your relationship, so kudos to you, and may the good continue...


That's my whole point. CW is putting all the work into this, NOT her husband.

I think she will leave TAM because it's so hard to be constantly pummeled... to hear OVER and OVER that it CAN, and SHOULD be better than the mediocrity she will settle for. That there ARE solutions to an erection that goes limp on a regular basis. Even if they think it's getting better, I'm guessing that they are just putting a new "spin" on it. 

"It's ok if it goes limp dear, I'll just keep trying to get you excited again." 

I did the same thing with my ex for 20 years. "It's ok if you can't last more than 5 thrusts. I'll just assume that most men are exactly like you." *NOT!!!* 

I wish she had a crystal ball. Or an odds maker in Vegas.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Ahhh... the eternal optimist!!
> 
> Nothing wrong with that, I applaud you!!! For every one couple like you, there are 10 more (at least) like me.
> 
> Sadly, the statistics are on my side. Just look at the divorce rate...


I think you are just determined to perpetually be the pessimist. 

Things are going bad, sharpen the pitchforks. Things are going good, just wait, things are going to go bad eventually. lol.

Do you often have trouble trusting people, and always expect the worst?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In an interesting turn of events since I last posted, we had some major trouble with erection issues. This morning he told me he wanted to look into doctors. 

The bad part is that his employer has switched insurance companies 3 times in the past year, and honestly we don't even know which insurance he has now. Not to mention he is switching again this summer. It is ridiculous. So today he going to try to ask around at work and figure out what he has, so I can find some doctors in network. 

Just keeping my fingers crossed that we can find a doctor that will take us seriously.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry to hear of your troubles, but happy to hear he is at least open now to seeing the doctor. If he does have low-T, it isn't just going to magically get better. Hopefully, this latest episode has opened his eyes to that. 

I know it is difficult to work with insurance companies; however, this is his health and that should come first. While he is open to seeing a doctor, I would do everything in my power to get him an appointment as soon as possible!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Sorry to hear of your troubles, but happy to hear he is at least open now to seeing the doctor. If he does have low-T, it isn't just going to magically get better. Hopefully, this latest episode has opened his eyes to that.
> 
> I know it is difficult to work with insurance companies; however, this is his health and that should come first. While he is open to seeing a doctor, I would do everything in my power to get him an appointment as soon as possible!


:iagree:

The hard part is finding a doctor that will treat him when his T is 430.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Finally talked to doctor friend. She is fully on board and she is going to call around to specialists and find someone who will take us seriously. :smthumbup:

As a side note, she said there are close to no endos in our area, and that if there are, that they only stick to thyroid problems, so our only option is a urologist.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Finally talked to doctor friend. She is fully on board and she is going to call around to specialists and find someone who will take us seriously. :smthumbup:
> 
> As a side note, she said there are close to no endos in our area, and that if there are, that they only stick to thyroid problems, so our only option is a urologist.


That's a good start. Glad to see he is on board!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He needs to be very open with the Doctor, Curious. The doctor needs to be made aware of all the problems your husband is having - in detail. You and your husband should discuss this before the appointment. Talking to the doctor is not a time to be leaving out details because of embarrassment. Your husband has a medical problem - he needs to see it as that and not as a deficiency in himself so he can find out the cause and get better.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Ahhh... the eternal optimist!!
> 
> Nothing wrong with that, I applaud you!!! For every one couple like you, there are 10 more (at least) like me.
> 
> Sadly, the statistics are on my side. Just look at the divorce rate...


Maybe we only hear from those who didn't make it. 



karole said:


> He needs to be very open with the Doctor, Curious. The doctor needs to be made aware of all the problems your husband is having - in detail. You and your husband should discuss this before the appointment. Talking to the doctor is not a time to be leaving out details because of embarrassment. Your husband has a medical problem - he needs to see it as that and not as a deficiency in himself so he can find out the cause and get better.


Agreed he needs to be convinced he should give every detail, just like he would for something like pneumonia or a concussion. It would also be good if he recognizes that this is bigger than him just not being able to have sex.

I keep hearing some saying he is not doing anything about it. When working in health care in the past first thing I learned is denial is a pretty normal part of coming to grip with and dealing with a health issue. And it seems to me the younger a person is the longer it takes them to admit there is a problem. I've also been the patient who took a long time to realize this was a big deal, luckily this was before I bled to death.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree about being upfront with the doctor, and he was last time. We would have a discussion before going again for sure.

*sigh* Since our erection issues a week ago he hasn't initiated any sort of contact, or said anything even remotely sexual. He's been sulking. Really. Whatever, I've been ignoring the babyish behavior and I went out with some ladies and watched movies until late. He pouted on the couch, and was asleep when I got home. Last night I asked him if we were ever going to have sex again. He said, "yes, if you want that is."

 He makes me crazy sometimes. With the whole woe is me, I'm not a man, blah blah blah; Every time he has erection problems. If it bothers him, just go to the dang doctor. I will not support or encourage whining about issues that are fixable.

If he thinks I'm going to come groveling back, begging for sex, and stoking his ego, forget it! I've got plans with friends this weekend.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree about being upfront with the doctor, and he was last time. We would have a discussion before going again for sure.
> 
> *sigh* Since our erection issues a week ago he hasn't initiated any sort of contact, or said anything even remotely sexual. He's been sulking. Really. Whatever, I've been ignoring the babyish behavior and I went out with some ladies and watched movies until late. He pouted on the couch, and was asleep when I got home. Last night I asked him if we were ever going to have sex again. He said, "yes, if you want that is."
> 
> He makes me crazy sometimes. With the whole woe is me, I'm not a man, blah blah blah; Every time he has erection problems. If it bothers him, just go to the dang doctor. I will not support or encourage whining about issues that are fixable.
> 
> If he thinks I'm going to come groveling back, begging for sex, and stoking his ego, forget it! I've got plans with friends this weekend.


You are in the disillusionment stage and are actively falling out of love with him...and it is his own doing. This is not to say your marriage can't be saved, because if he suddenly steps up and pursues his health along with his wife, you'll return to gaga in love stage. But he has shown you his go to response is self pity and inaction.

Good luck with that Mr. TCW!

Keep doing what you're doing. Pull away and voice your concerns firmly. Let him know you aren't feeling terribly charitable and he better get his act in gear.

Whatever you do, DONT GET PREGNANT!


----------



## happy as a clam

Anon Pink said:


> You are in the disillusionment stage and are actively falling out of love with him...and it is his own doing.


:iagree:

It's a slippery slope. I hope he turns it around in time. CW is doing exactly what I did. I got sick of my husband's "little boy" attitude. I checked out and started doing my own thing with friends and family.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Previous comment removed, my mother always says if you cant say something nice don't say anything at all.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

God bless you Curious....really I mean it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Tell him he doesn't need a woody to give you oral sex.


----------



## to much drama

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree about being upfront with the doctor, and he was last time. We would have a discussion before going again for sure.
> 
> *sigh* Since our erection issues a week ago he hasn't initiated any sort of contact, or said anything even remotely sexual. He's been sulking. Really. Whatever, I've been ignoring the babyish behavior and I went out with some ladies and watched movies until late. He pouted on the couch, and was asleep when I got home. Last night I asked him if we were ever going to have sex again. He said, "yes, if you want that is."
> 
> He makes me crazy sometimes. With the whole woe is me, I'm not a man, blah blah blah; Every time he has erection problems. If it bothers him, just go to the dang doctor. I will not support or encourage whining about issues that are fixable.
> 
> If he thinks I'm going to come groveling back, begging for sex, and stoking his ego, forget it! I've got plans with friends this weekend.



TheCuriousWife

Sounds like you have given up and you are well on your way to maybe separate from him. has cheating come into you thoughts at all to get what you need? 

CR


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey Curious! I hope you and hubby had a fun Valentine's Day!! Has there been any movement in getting your husband an appointment with a specialist?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have not thought of cheating. It's not an option.

We are in a stalemate about going to the doctor. He refuses to work on anymore issues until I promise to have a kid, and I absolutely refuse to have a kid until our issues are worked out. I will not have a child if there is any doubts in my head, about wanting to stay with him forever, and there are some.

We've been discussing the topic of divorce lately. (Not ours, but just it in general.) He absolutely believes in never divorcing, for pretty much any reason, except infidelity, or physical abuse. I do not agree, and we have been arguing back and forth about it a bit. We were having some troubles sexually, and of course he took it personally, and said things like, "Oh I better improve, or else you will find a better man." 

We have also been arguing quite a bit about children. He believes once kids come along, they are the only thing that matters, and you don't need to have alone time with your spouse anymore. We have been arguing about stupid things we don't agree on, like whether or not they can sleep in our bed, and that I will have to get a minivan next instead of the car I've been wanting forever. 

Just stupid petty things, but they are big red flags to me. I REFUSE to give up my life when I have children: I refuse to drive a minivan and stay at home and cook and clean all day, I refuse to let children dominate our lives, I refuse to let them sleep in our bed, I refuse to never get to go on dates anymore. I can tell the sex will be less, although now he is promising "sex every day..." haha yeah right. 

I truly believe he will be a great father, but we don't see eye to eye. I'm upset about our recent discussions, and I worry about the future. I'm not sure I fill the shape that he wants for a wife and mother. And I'm not sure that he is compatible with me either. All this as been brought up because of my friends marriage issues, and from a recent family sermon series we have been listening too. 

Valentines day was good. We didn't have sex. But made up for it the next day. 

Overall he is very good to me, I love him and I enjoy our life. But there are just some things that we believe so differently about. It will be hard to overcome those issues.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OMG Curious those are major issues going on with you two! I don't blame you in the least about holding off on having children. Have the 2 of you thought about going to a marriage counselor? Did you and your husband discuss these type things before marriage?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> OMG Curious those are major issues going on with you two! I don't blame you in the least about holding off on having children. Have the 2 of you thought about going to a marriage counselor? Did you and your husband discuss these type things before marriage?


We DID discuss these things before marriage. We've been together 7 years now. I always knew he was family oriented, and that I am not. But here lately, as the topic of children has come up more often, things are becoming more drastic, and changing. Some things he says is coming out of nowhere, like the minivan thing. I've been drooling over a specific car for at least a year now, and not once did he say anything about me not getting it, until last week. Then all the sudden he is like, "There is no point in getting that car. In 2 years when we have kids, you will just have to sell it and get a minivan." How in the heck is a minivan a requirement for kids? Cars have 5 seats... 

I knew kids were important, (I agree) but I don't think they should rule your life. Before marriage, I told him that I will not be a stay at home mom, and do all the cooking and all the cleaning, and all the kid watching. That is not me. I am ambitious, want a career, have hobbies, etc. He agreed. He still does, for the most part. I work as much/more than he does, we split most of the chores. I don't mind what we have now. 

BUT from hearing him talk lately, I fear that when we have kids that they will consume his life, and I will just be a house maid and incubator. As a women who already struggles with not enough affection, romance, sex; I REFUSE to be put even lower on the priority list. 

As a reminder, his parents let their kids rule their lives. Each parent sleeps with a different kid. They haven't shared a bed in at least 20 years. They don't go on dates, I'm certain they don't have sex. They don't have friends, or go places without kids. Even on vacation a kid slept with them. (Not babies, their youngest is over ten.) They are really fantastic parents, and they seem pretty happy and fine. But geez. There is more to life than kids. Husband is suddenly expecting our marriage to be the same way. Even though in the past I've specifically said, "It's wrong that your parents don't sleep together. And I will NOT let a child sleep in our bed. We will not be like that." He would laugh it off, or just say, "oh we will figure it out." When I would insist, he would just shrug is off, or agree to pacify me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oops I forgot to reply about the counselor. 

He will not go. He says we don't have issues, or that we will figure it out, just like he says about the doctor... 

My parents recently started going to counseling for the first time in their crummy nearly 30 year marriage. Maybe I can get some info from them, and talk to him about going again.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey, TCW. I have been lurking here until this point. 

Your patience and fortitude are pretty incredible. 

Just curious myself though... What is your line in the sand?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Perhaps if you put it to him as, "I refuse to bring any children into this marriage until we work out our issues - then name those issues - and tell him that in order to do that, you need the help and guidance of a third party -a marriage counselor.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am sorry you are going through this, but very glad it is happening now rather than after a child or two. Best of luck working through this.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Perhaps if you put it to him as, "I refuse to bring any children into this marriage until we work out our issues - then name those issues - and tell him that in order to do that, you need the help and guidance of a third party -a marriage counselor.


This is a approach I have/will be taking.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



farsidejunky said:


> Hey, TCW. I have been lurking here until this point.
> 
> Your patience and fortitude are pretty incredible.
> 
> Just curious myself though... What is your line in the sand?


I'm not sure at this point. I teeter on the fence.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Too bad your husband isn't as mature as you are Curious...........


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have not thought of cheating. It's not an option.
> 
> We are in a stalemate about going to the doctor. He refuses to work on anymore issues until I promise to have a kid, and I absolutely refuse to have a kid until our issues are worked out. I will not have a child if there is any doubts in my head, about wanting to stay with him forever, and there are some.
> 
> We've been discussing the topic of divorce lately. (Not ours, but just it in general.) He absolutely believes in never divorcing, for pretty much any reason, except infidelity, or physical abuse. I do not agree, and we have been arguing back and forth about it a bit. We were having some troubles sexually, and of course he took it personally, and said things like, "Oh I better improve, or else you will find a better man."
> 
> We have also been arguing quite a bit about children. He believes once kids come along, they are the only thing that matters, and you don't need to have alone time with your spouse anymore. We have been arguing about stupid things we don't agree on, like whether or not they can sleep in our bed, and that I will have to get a minivan next instead of the car I've been wanting forever.
> 
> Just stupid petty things, but they are big red flags to me. I REFUSE to give up my life when I have children: I refuse to drive a minivan and stay at home and cook and clean all day, I refuse to let children dominate our lives, I refuse to let them sleep in our bed, I refuse to never get to go on dates anymore. I can tell the sex will be less, although now he is promising "sex every day..." haha yeah right.
> 
> I truly believe he will be a great father, but we don't see eye to eye. I'm upset about our recent discussions, and I worry about the future. I'm not sure I fill the shape that he wants for a wife and mother. And I'm not sure that he is compatible with me either. All this as been brought up because of my friends marriage issues, and from a recent family sermon series we have been listening too.
> 
> Valentines day was good. We didn't have sex. But made up for it the next day.
> 
> Overall he is very good to me, I love him and I enjoy our life. But there are just some things that we believe so differently about. It will be hard to overcome those issues.


I don't think I would call those petty things. I think they are major disagreements and compatibility issues. You both want very different things. 

Yes, children are a big part of life once they are here, but it doesn't mean your marriage is over and everything is about the kids. That's not healthy. My husband and I look forward to when our son goes to bed, so we can have alone time. Our date nights are cherished. 

Since you have intimacy issues now, I can guarantee they will get worse after you have a baby. You are very smart to not bring a child into the mix right now. 

I know you really want to work through things, but have you thought of giving your marriage a mental timeline in your head for how long you'll put up with everything? Say if things aren't better in this much time, I'm handing him divorce papers. I'd hate for you to waste so many years on a marriage that isn't going anywhere. I don't think you want to look back on things with a lot of regrets.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"Oh I better improve, or else you will find a better man." 

A better man maybe but not for the way he is thinking it. A better man that will face his issues square and not jeopardize his marriage over pride.

We have also been arguing quite a bit about children. He believes once kids come along, they are the only thing that matters, and you don't need to have alone time with your spouse anymore.

This is a very odd stance. Especially for a guy. Even couples that end up this way, almost never actually plan on it being this way or verbalize such a plan. It just evolves into such a relationship. Having babies has a profound effect on a woman. Kids change everything, demand your time more and more. You get the idea.

Couples think things will be as they were between themsleves, maybe to a lessor degree after kids, but to actually plan or verbalize this?

very odd indeed


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He refuses to work on anymore issues until I promise to have a kid, and I absolutely refuse to have a kid until our issues are worked out. I will not have a child if there is any doubts in my head, about wanting to stay with him forever, and there are some.


PLEASE don't fall for this same trap like I did. Hubby promised me kids would change everything. Oh, it changed everything, alright.



TheCuriousWife said:


> He absolutely believes in never divorcing, for pretty much any reason, except infidelity, or physical abuse. I do not agree, and we have been arguing back and forth about it a bit. We were having some troubles sexually, and of course he took it personally, and said things like, *"Oh I better improve, or else you will find a better man."*


Yep, and he better take it seriously. That's exactly what I did. I found a better man, for me. Believe me, it happens.



TheCuriousWife said:


> We have also been arguing quite a bit about children. He believes once kids come along, *they are the only thing that matters, and you don't need to have alone time with your spouse anymore.*


MAJOR red flag!!Pay attention, CW. He's giving you all the clues you need to see the road ahead.



TheCuriousWife said:


> We have been arguing about stupid things we don't agree on, like whether or not they can sleep in our bed, and that I will have to get a minivan next instead of the car I've been wanting forever.


Nothing to say here but *ugh*. Been there, done that.



TheCuriousWife said:


> Just stupid petty things, but *they are big red flags to me. I REFUSE to give up my life when I have children: I refuse to drive a minivan and stay at home and cook and clean all day, I refuse to let children dominate our lives, I refuse to let them sleep in our bed, I refuse to never get to go on dates anymore.*
> 
> I can tell the sex will be less, although *now he is promising "sex every day..." haha yeah right*.


I am gagging now. Your husband and my ex must be doppelgangers. At the very least, they share the same LD "script." Sex every day???? Try once or twice a year. My hubs shared the same traits as yours... *no erection* when cuddling, spooning, kissing, showering, ANYTHING. Going limp halfway through every sexual encounter. It only went downhill from there.



TheCuriousWife said:


> I truly believe he will be a great father...


Don't be so sure. I thought the same thing until BOTH my kids told me AFTER our divorce (ages 14 and 17) that "Dad is a jerk"... NOT a role model... they hope they don't turn out like him.


----------



## hope4family

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW

Your husband doesn't know how lucky he is to have a wife that wants to put a priority on their relationship. Keep arguing. It will be painful, but at the end of the day you will have the clarity you need on whether to end this or proceed on. 

I will be the erk in the room. Even if he changes, there is a very good chance it will only be temporary. I wish it wasn't so.

Move on. You two are probably excellent in every other way except the one that matters.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



hope4family said:


> Move on. *You two are probably excellent in every other way except the one that matters.*


Couldn't have said it better.


----------



## DCMarriageCounselor

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TheCuriousWife I really applaud you for telling your story here. There is so much support and wisdom in this thread. I'm still catching up but have read most of it. Sex has such a way of warping my own calibration of what it means to be satisfied in my marriage. I've had lots of help discovering the difference between being happy and resting in the parts of my relationship that bring me joy. 

I also echo what many others have said about "this is a lucky guy" to have a HD wife.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He wants a marriage just like the one his parents have -- totally child centered with no room for anything else. You don't. Be very careful. If you think your marriage has problems now, they will pale in comparison to what happens once you have children.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

You have a choice to make - a hard choice. 

In his own way C2 has been brutally honest and conisistent. Hundreds of posts back you mentioned that he had told you that after having kids you two wouldn't have time for sex. As soon as I read that - I knew that your sex life was doomed. Knew it with near 100 percent certainty. People who don't like sex love to hide behind children. 

FWIW: after our first child, sex went from 27 times a month down to maybe 20 times a month. After our second - no real change. After our third - no real change. Around year 15 we began to gradually cut back to our current 8/month. 

His position has always been - that he is perfectly fine. And that is why he doesn't want to:
- see a doctor
Or
- a therapist 

And it's why he desperately wants kids. Kids will:
- Make it much harder for you to divorce him 
AND
- Provide him the ultimate excuse for avoiding sex 

And he will perceive you agreeing to have kids as the ULTIMATE confirmation that you will tolerate the status quo open ended. No matter what you SAY - the act of having a child MEANS that you will accept the status quo going forward. Or worse. Because he's already told you that children = too busy for sex.

I wonder which of his parents is the LD spouse. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> Oops I forgot to reply about the counselor.
> 
> He will not go. He says we don't have issues, or that we will figure it out, just like he says about the doctor...
> 
> My parents recently started going to counseling for the first time in their crummy nearly 30 year marriage. Maybe I can get some info from them, and talk to him about going again.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh lord TCW. Take the toothpick out. This cake is done!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Oh lord TCW. Take the toothpick out. This cake is done!


WOW!!! When I see THIS (the above post from Anon Pink) it TRULY is time to stick a fork in it.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

*LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> 
> 
> You have a choice to make - a hard choice.
> 
> 
> 
> In his own way C2 has been brutally honest and conisistent. Hundreds of posts back you mentioned that he had told you that after having kids you two wouldn't have time for sex. As soon as I read that - I knew that your sex life was doomed. Knew it with near 100 percent certainty. People who don't like sex love to hide behind children.
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW: after our first child, sex went from 27 times a month down to maybe 20 times a month. After our second - no real change. After our third - no real change. Around year 15 we began to gradually cut back to our current 8/month.
> 
> 
> 
> His position has always been - that he is perfectly fine. And that is why he doesn't want to:
> 
> - see a doctor
> 
> Or
> 
> - a therapist
> 
> 
> 
> And it's why he desperately wants kids. Kids will:
> 
> - Make it much harder for you to divorce him
> 
> AND
> 
> - Provide him the ultimate excuse for avoiding sex
> 
> 
> 
> And he will perceive you agreeing to have kids as the ULTIMATE confirmation that you will tolerate the status quo open ended. No matter what you SAY - the act of having a child MEANS that you will accept the status quo going forward. Or worse. Because he's already told you that children = too busy for sex.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder which of his parents is the LD spouse.



Read this again. Your husband is telling you that sex is done once you have a kid. 

I've said this before: in climbing we have a saying. You can agree or disagree, but if you stay tied into the rope, you agree.


----------



## hope4family

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



DCMarriageCounselor said:


> I also echo what many others have said about "this is a lucky guy" to have a HD wife.


My reason for complimenting her stance. Is so much more then HD vs LD discussions. I am hearing things, hard things, things that no matter how much you care or work with someone are just deal breakers. 

My sister and I have a saying. You may be a "97%" match on *******. But that 3% just so happens to be the deal breaker.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



WorkingOnMe said:


> Read this again. Your husband is telling you that sex is done once you have a kid.
> 
> I've said this before: in climbing we have a saying. You can agree or disagree, but *if you stay tied into the rope, you agree.*



Right you are WOM. 

I know this must be devastating for you Curious. I don't think there is one person who has even a skitch of hope or faith that your marriage can be workable. 

Seriously Curious, he hasn't heard a word you've said. He thinks you're nuts, a cute nuts, but nuts none the less. He will never change because there is nothing wrong with him, the problem is you. He will never see himself as not meeting your needs because you have crazy insane out of control needs. He will never seek to meet your needs, he will seek to invalidate, negate and minimize your needs.

Some people honestly believe that they should be accepted for who they are. Some people think that once married, learning, growth and the change subsequent to that is not needed or necessary. Some people think it is unreasonable to expect your spouse to grow and learn along with you.

You cannot ever ever say anything to those people that will make a difference.


----------



## Echos in Bongo Flight

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Your sex life has tangled you up on these boards for 2 years (more?). There really hasn't been enough improvement, if any, in your satisfaction with your sex life or you'd not still be posting here.

On the very first page you state that leaving is not an option. Is that still true? Or will you keep trying and still be here in 2017 on page 489 lamenting about your discontent? 

You deserve a happy, fulfilled sex life. You really do, Curious. Are you able to support yourself financially? Does that keep you from leaving? Your story breaks my heart. Like Charlie Brown and Lucy and that dang football. You try and try.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Poor CW, having to even consider leaving a marriage to someone you love but are not compatible with is an absolutely heartbreaking process. Make sure to keep lots of support around you.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



Openminded said:


> He wants a marriage just like the one his parents have -- totally child centered with no room for anything else. You don't. Be very careful. If you think your marriage has problems now, they will pale in comparison to what happens once you have children.



I don't buy the child centered part. I did all the child rearing and even then there was plenty of room left.

I do buy the role model part, if he's not used to the idea of intimacy because that's what he saw his parents do...


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> I don't buy the child centered part. I did all the child rearing and even then there was plenty of room left.
> 
> I do buy the role model part, if he's not used to the idea of intimacy because that's what he saw his parents do...


There's absolutely room left for people who want that to be the case. But some couples unfortunately allow children to crowd out the marriage -- especially when one of them is LD. Children will be the perfect opportunity for him to kick off a sexless marriage.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well I appreciate all the well wishes and advice. I know you are going to be disappointed and frustrated but I am not leaving my husband. Someday perhaps, but not today.

I acknowledge that my marriage may end in divorce, and if that's what it takes for my happiness, so be it. But I don't feel like I'm quite there yet. You may disagree, but our arguments about children are recent. I'm just suppose to throw it all away because of one more argument? Obviously we aren't going to have children until things are worked out, if they do. But this certainly isn't a deal breaker for me, at this point. Why divorce him over problems, that aren't even here yet? 

I do have boundaries and expectations, and right now he is teetering on the line, but at this point it could go either way.

I know everyone will be upset with me and I don't care. It's my life, and despite my ranting on here, I am happy. No one can push me into choosing something I don't want. 

I think it's best that I discontinue posting on this thread. Just because I am "hanging onto the rope" doesn't mean I need to drag you along with me, and keep frustrating people when I don't make decisions as fast as they'd like. So I will quit sharing about my personal life, no one wants to hear it anymore.

Again thanks for all the advice. I'm sure I will still be around TAM. Feel free to PM if need be. Toodles.


----------



## doobie

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I appreciate all the well wishes and advice. I know you are going to be disappointed and frustrated but I am not leaving my husband. Someday perhaps, but not today.
> 
> I acknowledge that my marriage may end in divorce, and if that's what it takes for my happiness, so be it. But I don't feel like I'm quite there yet. You may disagree, but our arguments about children are recent. I'm just suppose to throw it all away because of one more argument? Obviously we aren't going to have children until things are worked out, if they do. But this certainly isn't a deal breaker for me, at this point. Why divorce him over problems, that aren't even here yet?
> 
> I do have boundaries and expectations, and right now he is teetering on the line, but at this point it could go either way.
> 
> I know everyone will be upset with me and I don't care. It's my life, and despite my ranting on here, I am happy. No one can push me into choosing something I don't want.
> 
> I think it's best that I discontinue posting on this thread. Just because I am "hanging onto the rope" doesn't mean I need to drag you along with me, and keep frustrating people when I don't make decisions as fast as they'd like. So I will quit sharing about my personal life, no one wants to hear it anymore.
> 
> Again thanks for all the advice. I'm sure I will still be around TAM. Feel free to PM if need be. Toodles.


CW - don't feel that you have to quit posting just because you're not following the advice of others on here. Whether you follow the advice or not, you still need to vent from time to time and this is the perfect place to do so safely. Only you can decide on whether or not divorce is the right thing for you - others may advise it, but you're the one having to live your life. If you want to vent non-publicly you're welcome to PM me. I'm in a similar situation to yours, a LD husband who has no interest in sex. Because of financial circumstances I can't divorce at the moment anyway, so I'm pretty much stuck. I live in a country where there are no resources to help people in unhappy/sexless marriages and I find that venting on TAM now and again is a big help. PM me and we can vent to each other


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *I think it's best that I discontinue posting on this thread.* Just because I am "hanging onto the rope" doesn't mean I need to drag you along with me, and keep frustrating people when I don't make decisions as fast as they'd like. So I will quit sharing about my personal life, no one wants to hear it anymore.
> 
> Again thanks for all the advice. I'm sure I will still be around TAM. Feel free to PM if need be. Toodles.


Awww... CW, I hope you don't abandon your thread. You don't have to agree with anyone here (God knows I got LAMBASTED on my original thread )

But many of us here are invested in you and your future, even if we're all really just "internet strangers."

I wish you the very best. I am rooting for YOU (whether it's IN or marriage or OUT of it). TAM gave me so much support and guidance when I couldn't find it elsewhere.

Check back in from time to time...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't mind people disagreeing with me. But I certainly don't want to come across as the sad little fiddle constantly crying about the mud but refusing to get out of the pig pen. 

I didn't intend this thread to be over 200 pages long, or to become what is has. I just wanted to place to rant occasionally, as I work through my issues. Of course people eventually get tired of ranting and just want me to shut up and do something about it. lol. I don't blame them. 

I'm a chatterbox, so I'm sure I won't be too far away. Maybe it's time for a new thread, one without so much baggage.

Oddly enough, This morning I received a random call from the doctor calling to confirm a specialist appointment. :scratchhead: Which I had no idea about, and did not set up.

The doctor friend that I hadn't heard from in weeks, must have took matters into her own hands and finally found a specialist for me, and set up the appointment on her own. I'm assuming so I wouldn't have to fight the battle against husband again. She knew he was refusing to go. She is a wise woman. 

Husband is a little upset, but he has agreed to go. 

Here's to a better future.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, at least update us after the doctor's appointment. I think I speak for everyone on this board when I say that I hope things work out with you and your husband.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't worry Curious, it's just cratchedy old people lamenting their wasted youth and wanting the young'uns like yourself to do better than we did.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't mind people disagreeing with me. But *I certainly don't want to come across as the sad little fiddle constantly crying about the mud* but refusing to get out of the pig pen.


Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how it comes across. A sad little fiddle crying, refusing to get out of the pig pen.

Constantly making up excuses why your husband won't ALSO get out of the pig pen.

What's next? Mini-vans? NO sex? Children who usurp their parents' role? Roommates? Limp d*cks? Excuses against sex? Washing yourself before your husband will come near you?!  And the list goes on. But you want to stay with him, because our "collective experience" (which you've solicited for over 200 pages) counts for nothing.



TheCuriousWife said:


> *I didn't intend this thread to be over 200 pages long,* or to become what is has. I just wanted to place to rant occasionally, as I work through my issues.


Well it IS over 200 pages long, and you surely helped it along.

Did you ever watch the show "Once Upon A Time?" Because this thread certainly reminds me of that show.

Unfortunately, fairy tales don't come true.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

IDK, my advice is not based on wasted youth - I had a fantastic sex life with my husband in my youth. Heck, I still do, but it isn't the same as when we were younger. All of us here just hate to see Curious missing out on what should be some of the best years of her marriage.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> IDK, my advice is not based on wasted youth - I had a fantastic sex life with my husband in my youth. Heck, I still do, but it isn't the same as when we were younger. All of us here just hate to see Curious missing out on what should be some of the best years of her marriage.


I'm just thinking those of us who were yelling GET OUT really early on in the thread largely came from low sex low affection relationships, got out, and are now happy and wish we had got out sooner.

The sentiment is the same either way, I think.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I'm just going to come right out and ask...and I want you to think deeply and honestly about this, no defensiveness, just your bare soul...do you, on some level, in some way, enjoy the pain you are experiencing because of your husband?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how it comes across. A sad little fiddle crying, refusing to get out of the pig pen.
> 
> Constantly making up excuses why your husband won't ALSO get out of the pig pen.
> 
> What's next? Mini-vans? NO sex? Children who usurp their parents' role? Roommates? Limp d*cks? Excuses against sex? Washing yourself before your husband will come near you?!  And the list goes on. But you want to stay with him, because our "collective experience" (which you've solicited for over 200 pages) counts for nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Well it IS over 200 pages long, and you surely helped it along.
> 
> Did you ever watch the show "Once Upon A Time?" Because this thread certainly reminds me of that show.
> 
> Unfortunately, fairy tales don't come true.



Watching it right now actually. 

And yes. This is exactly why this thread needs to die. My life isn't a soap opera or a fairy tale, and apparently it comes across like that.

It's not that your experience counts for nothing. It's just that it is my life, and I get to decide how I live it. You made your choices. You stayed with a LD man for 20 years, who are you to judge so harshly?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> Curious, I'm just going to come right out and ask...and I want you to think deeply and honestly about this, no defensiveness, just your bare soul...do you, on some level, in some way, enjoy the pain you are experiencing because of your husband?


No I absolutely do not.

I love my husband, I've spent over half of my life with him. I'm sorry that I don't want to throw that away.


----------



## samyeagar

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No I absolutely do not.
> 
> I love my husband, I've spent over half of my life with him. I'm sorry that I don't want to throw that away.


It just hasn't become painful enough yet?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



samyeagar said:


> It just hasn't become painful enough yet?


I guess not.

Would I rather live like this, than divorce my husband? Yes. I complain about our issues, but there is a lot of good in our marriage too. Enough for me to stay.


----------



## hope4family

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW. Live the life you want to live with no regrets. It's not a fairy tale, it's the pursuit of happiness. If you are content with the now, there isn't a need to change. 

I stand by my original statement. Your husband should thank his lucky stars every day he has you. Not lick your boot. Just understand that a person who works on a relationship is gold. That's all.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No I absolutely do not.
> 
> I love my husband, I've spent over half of my life with him. I'm sorry that I don't want to throw that away.


You've been together over half your life? I thought a few posts back you said you've been together 7 years?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> You've been together over half your life? I thought a few posts back you said you've been together 7 years?


You are correct. We have been in a romantic relationship for 7 years. But we have been best friends for over half my life. That is what I meant when I said together, my bad. 99% of my good memories are with him.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW, I understand to a point but a cog in your thought process is missing.

The longer you stay with him, the higher the percentage becomes.

I am sorry, TCW, but for someone who purportedly loves you, your husband really doesn't sound like he puts the effort where you need it. 

In some ways you are almost keeping an obstinate child rather than a husband.

I truly wish you luck.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> You are correct. We have been in a romantic relationship for 7 years. But we have been best friends for over half my life. That is what I meant when I said together, my bad. 99% of my good memories are with him.


Gotcha. So for how many years were you guys good friends before it became a romantic relationship?


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



farsidejunky said:


> I am sorry, TCW, but for someone who purportedly loves you, your husband really doesn't sound like he puts the effort where you need it.
> 
> In some ways you are almost keeping an obstinate child rather than a husband.


Sadly, I very strongly agree with both these statements. That was my impression, on both counts, when I first started following this thread, close to a year ago. I have kept an open mind. I have given this guy the benefit of the doubt. I want to believe he really is a good guy as CW has told us, and this can still all be worked through. I was very encouraged when it looked like he was starting to put in the effort and for a _short while_ it appeared progress was being made. But, in retrospect, it seems to me that when it appeared he was putting in effort... it was really for him, not for CW. He was doing what he needed to do, the bare minimum, to keep her pacified. Was he really interested in doing what needs to be done for his marriage and to fulfill his wife's very reasonable needs? No, he was interested in keeping his boat from being rocked. Now here he is, all these months later, playing ''Let's make a deal" with her, bartering for her to start having kids (of all things), while he holds hostage her hope of pursuing treatment for his sexual dysfunction. Hugely unhealthy pressure tactic and manipulation happening there. I'm not sure if CW realizes that the marital dysfunction really goes even beyond sexual when he is playing these kinds of games on matters this important.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, you didn't marry a man; you unwittingly married a little boy. I know this (meaning all of the recent comments) is all very hard for you to hear. And I don't blame you from wanting to run from this thread. But this thread is filled with good people who genuinely do not want to see you repeat the same mistakes many have made; these are the best years of your life that you are living right now, we don't want you to find yourself looking back one day on wasted youth. I think we are all hoping to 'save' you from waking up to major regrets years down the line. But you are absolutely right. It is your life to live as you see fit, that's absolutely not in question. They are your mistakes to make . Seriously though, I fully respect that you need to do what feels right to you. Just know that everyone here is genuinely trying to help, even though I know sometimes the feedback must really be hard for you. Stay strong and carry on.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

At 20,000 feet only one thing matters. 

He is not going to change. Not - going - to - change. 

Doesn't matter whether he is unable or unwilling. He is not going to change. 

So TCW can either: accept a sexless marriage, or have endless, ineffective conflict with him over sex. 

Those are her only two plays. Right now she's in denial. 





justfabulous said:


> Curious, you didn't marry a man; you unwittingly married a little boy. I know this (meaning all of the recent comments) is all very hard for you to hear. And I don't blame you from wanting to run from this thread. But this thread is filled with good people who genuinely do not want to see you repeat the same mistakes many have made; these are the best years of your life that you are living right now, we don't want you to find yourself looking back one day on wasted youth. I think we are all hoping to 'save' you from waking up to major regrets years down the line. But you are absolutely right. It is your life to live as you see fit, that's absolutely not in question. They are your mistakes to make . Seriously though, I fully respect that you need to do what feels right to you. Just know that everyone here is genuinely trying to help, even though I know sometimes the feedback must really be hard for you. Stay strong and carry on.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We don't have emotions invested as you do so we look at it logically. Permanent change is hard and requires a lot of work (which is why few people manage it successfully). I have read your thread from the beginning and while he's improved in minor areas he still hasn't improved in major areas. He obviously is just not as interested in sex as you are. If you were also LD, your life with him would be much different but you aren't. And adding children to the mix, when one parent is LD, will turn sex into a much bigger battle than it currently is. Sure, you could spend the rest of your life sex-starved -- plenty of people are in that boat -- but could you be happy doing that. It's a very hard way to live for someone who is HD. No one wants to see that for you.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Don't worry Curious, it's just cratchedy old people lamenting their wasted youth and wanting the young'uns like yourself to do better than we did.


Who me?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, you do what you need to do when you're ready to do it. You've grown so much since this thread began. You've found your voice, you've owned your desires and needs, and you've identified your boundaries. Being able to enforce those boundaries can take time. And you have plenty of time.

Just 
Don't
Get
Pregnant!


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Who me?


Pfffft! You're like 32 or something!

I was more referring to myself.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Don't be so sure. I thought the same thing until BOTH my kids told me AFTER our divorce (ages 14 and 17) that "Dad is a jerk"... NOT a role model... they hope they don't turn out like him.


Could it be they see him as a jerk because he didn't love you like you needed to be loved?



john117 said:


> I don't buy the child centered part. I did all the child rearing and even then there was plenty of room left.
> 
> I do buy the role model part, if he's not used to the idea of intimacy because that's what he saw his parents do...


I'm primary caregiver to 6 kids who we slept with us as babies but because we wanted sex we made it work. Plus though kids are in with us they move to their own bed when they wean and out of room by 5. For us them being close meant more sleep and more energy for our relationship not a barrier to put up between us to keep the other at bay. Just saying it can work if you both want it to, the problem is I think it is often an excuse.

Good luck at the doctors. I like your doc


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Curious, you do what you need to do when you're ready to do it. You've grown so much since this thread began. You've found your voice, you've owned your desires and needs, and you've identified your boundaries. Being able to enforce those boundaries can take time. And you have plenty of time.
> 
> Just
> Don't
> Get
> Pregnant!


This CANNOT be repeated often enough!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Small update. Figured I will at least keep you guys up to date about the doctor. Beyond that, I don't know. 

Initiated the "talk" before the doctor in 3 days. 

He says we have no problems. I said, "wouldn't it be nice to have sex two days in a row if we wanted to?" "Why would I want to?" Point taken. 

"I don't understand what the problem is. Just because most men want sex all the time doesn't mean I have to." "I know that, I don't care what other men do, but I like sex. So then it's a problem." 

"Well you want more sex, and I want sex less than we are having, so we are both unhappy. That's fair." "You don't understand. My main issue isn't that I want more sex, it's your bad attitude about it."

"I don't have a bad attitude... Well sometimes. But you always seem to want it, and I just don't feel like it. I will have sex with you if you really want it." "Yeah that's the point. You _will_ have sex with me if I get upset. But you act like it's going to kill you. That makes me feel bad, and it's not even worth it."

Then we got cut off, because we had to be somewhere. Conversation will be resuming when we get some time together.

We haven't had ED problems because we aren't having much sex. Around once a week over the past several weeks. He still claims we have an average amount of 3 times a week. :scratchhead: Uh no. At most we have sex 3 times in a week. Then if you factor in my period week with 0, and the last several weeks of only once, we are having a lot less. But when I mentioned that he is just like, "That isn't something you should be counting. You shouldn't be keeping track." 

Which I agree. But sadly it has come to that. Besides the fact, that somehow he just doesn't seem to notice when we have less sex, or ED problems. He will forget all those times, but remember the 1 time it was fine. Sigh. It's like we are living in two different realities. 

He can't get a handle on his chore like attitude with sex. I mean, I understand. He doesn't want to have sex usually, so that's just how he genuinely feels. I don't want him to fake enthusiasm. But what am I suppose to do? I want sex. It's not like I am asking all the time anymore. I try not to ask unless it's been like 5+ days. So I am just suppose to sit and wait until he decides he is horny and wants sex? Why shouldn't I be able to say that I'm craving sex without him huffing and puffing. 

He did initiate manual sex during my period which is a surprise. Of course it had been close to a week without, which seems to be about his schedule. 

It's ridiculous what he will blame our lack of sex on. Pretty much anything except his self. "Oh we got home late from such and such, oh your pet was sick, etc." No excuse. I was still horny during all that time. We didn't have sex because it wasn't a priority. 

It's incredibly hard to enjoy sex, and actually believe he is having fun and wants to do it. I just feel like a smuck, that I'm forcing him into it. That I'm taking too long and he is getting bored, that I smell, that I'm too wet, that my boobs are too small, and my stomach is too fat, that I'm not exciting enough, etc. That is so mentally exhausting. I wish I wouldn't.  He says he has fun, I'm fine, blah blah blah. But what am I suppose to think when he puts me off as long as possible, and goes limp when I'm trying to please him. Actions speak louder than words. 

I have a lot less pressure, and hurt feelings if I just do it myself, without all his baggage. We get along fine as long as the "S" word isn't insinuated or mentioned.

His birthday is tomorrow. I have a fever blister and he is super freaked out of herpes. So no blow job for him. Part of me is relieved. 

Besides sex, we are having a great time together. I just don't get it. Fingers crossed the doctor has some answers, but I will not get my hopes up.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Are you going with him to the doctor Curious? I hope so, so that you can speak up and make sure the doctor gets the whole story. The doctor needs to know in detail the problems he is having. I will keep you and Mr. Curious in my thoughts and prayers. Please let us know how the appointment goes. By the way, what kind of doctor is he seeing?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks. I will be going and he is seeing a urologist. 

Endocrinologists don't handle T problems around here, only thyroid and diabetes.


----------



## speeedbump

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Initiated the "talk" before the doctor in 3 days.
> 
> He says we have no problems. I said, "wouldn't it be nice to have sex two days in a row if we wanted to?" "Why would I want to?" Point taken.
> 
> "I don't understand what the problem is. Just because most men want sex all the time doesn't mean I have to." "I know that, I don't care what other men do, but I like sex. So then it's a problem."
> 
> "Well you want more sex, and I want sex less than we are having, so we are both unhappy. That's fair." "You don't understand. My main issue isn't that I want more sex, it's your bad attitude about it."
> 
> "I don't have a bad attitude... Well sometimes. But you always seem to want it, and I just don't feel like it. I will have sex with you if you really want it." "Yeah that's the point. You _will_ have sex with me if I get upset. But you act like it's going to kill you. That makes me feel bad, and it's not even worth it."
> 
> Then we got cut off, because we had to be somewhere. Conversation will be resuming when we get some time together.
> 
> We haven't had ED problems because we aren't having much sex. Around once a week over the past several weeks. He still claims we have an average amount of 3 times a week. :scratchhead: Uh no. At most we have sex 3 times in a week. Then if you factor in my period week with 0, and the last several weeks of only once, we are having a lot less. But when I mentioned that he is just like, "That isn't something you should be counting. You shouldn't be keeping track."
> 
> Which I agree. But sadly it has come to that. Besides the fact, that somehow he just doesn't seem to notice when we have less sex, or ED problems. He will forget all those times, but remember the 1 time it was fine. Sigh. It's like we are living in two different realities.
> 
> He can't get a handle on his chore like attitude with sex. I mean, I understand. He doesn't want to have sex usually, so that's just how he genuinely feels. I don't want him to fake enthusiasm. But what am I suppose to do? I want sex. It's not like I am asking all the time anymore. I try not to ask unless it's been like 5+ days. So I am just suppose to sit and wait until he decides he is horny and wants sex? Why shouldn't I be able to say that I'm craving sex without him huffing and puffing.
> 
> He did initiate manual sex during my period which is a surprise. Of course it had been close to a week without, which seems to be about his schedule.
> 
> It's ridiculous what he will blame our lack of sex on. Pretty much anything except his self. "Oh we got home late from such and such, oh your pet was sick, etc." No excuse. I was still horny during all that time. We didn't have sex because it wasn't a priority.
> 
> It's incredibly hard to enjoy sex, and actually believe he is having fun and wants to do it. I just feel like a smuck, that I'm forcing him into it. That I'm taking too long and he is getting bored, that I smell, that I'm too wet, that my boobs are too small, and my stomach is too fat, that I'm not exciting enough, etc. That is so mentally exhausting. I wish I wouldn't.  He says he has fun, I'm fine, blah blah blah. But what am I suppose to think when he puts me off as long as possible, and goes limp when I'm trying to please him. Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> I have a lot less pressure, and hurt feelings if I just do it myself, without all his baggage. We get along fine as long as the "S" word isn't insinuated or mentioned.
> 
> His birthday is tomorrow. I have a fever blister and he is super freaked out of herpes. So no blow job for him. Part of me is relieved.
> 
> Besides sex, we are having a great time together. I just don't get it. Fingers crossed the doctor has some answers, but I will not get my hopes up.


This hurts to read because so much of it is similar to what I hear from my spouse. There is an endless supply of excuses why now is not a good time for sex. There is a constant over-estimating/cherry picking that in her mind support the illusion that our love life is fine or normal. And when something does happen, I feel like I'm forcing her into it and she would rather be doing anything but that.

For example, last week I walk into the bedroom and she says, "I will have sex with you tonight." ...and just lays there.

I said, "Do you _want_ to have sex with me?" --Hoping just once that the answer is yes.

She replies, "About as much as I ever do. And you know me."

Yay. How romantic. But of course in a situation like mine, I take what I can get 


-edit...apart from that last sentence of your quote. We are not necessarily having a great time besides sex either.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW,

I know you say he's a great guy all in all. I've read your words and agree with you. But, I can almost guarantee he'll never be able to satisfy your "womanly" needs. It's such a shame that such an important piece of being a couple is completely missing. At this point, I doubt an overdose of testosterone would do it!

He absolutely lacks any kind of passion, lust, sex, admiration, desire, ardor, enthusiasm, etc, etc, etc.

It sucks big time! I know others have said this to you, but are you really willing to live without all of the wonderful human emotions? You do desire them deeply and it will only fester over time. You will have to make the choice of living without or, well, you know...

Your post above doesn't sound like it. The resentment is growing. 

Best wishes,


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I can't remember if we talked about it here before or some other thread, maybe my own. It's not a lack of sex issue it's a lack of desire issue and it sucks. Quantity/quality of sex is just the end result and the quantifiable "measuring stick". 

Sorry you're still in that situation CW, best wishes with the doc.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



speeedbump said:


> This hurts to read because so much of it is similar to what I hear from my spouse. There is an endless supply of excuses why now is not a good time for sex. There is a constant over-estimating/cherry picking that in her mind support the illusion that our love life is fine or normal. And when something does happen, I feel like I'm forcing her into it and she would rather be doing anything but that.
> 
> For example, last week I walk into the bedroom and she says, "I will have sex with you tonight." ...and just lays there.
> 
> I said, "Do you _want_ to have sex with me?" --Hoping just once that the answer is yes.
> 
> She replies, "About as much as I ever do. And you know me."
> 
> Yay. How romantic. But of course in a situation like mine, I take what I can get
> 
> 
> -edit...apart from that last sentence of your quote. We are not necessarily having a great time besides sex either.


My husband says this a lot. He will say, "I will have sex with you if you want me to...." Uh no, I want to know YOU want to. If he is just doing it for me, then it's not mutually fun. It's a chore.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> TCW,
> 
> I know you say he's a great guy all in all. I've read your words and agree with you. But, I can almost guarantee he'll never be able to satisfy your "womanly" needs. It's such a shame that such an important piece of being a couple is completely missing. At this point, I doubt an overdose of testosterone would do it!
> 
> He absolutely lacks any kind of passion, lust, sex, admiration, desire, ardor, enthusiasm, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> It sucks big time! I know others have said this to you, but are you really willing to live without all of the wonderful human emotions? You do desire them deeply and it will only fester over time. You will have to make the choice of living without or, well, you know...
> 
> Your post above doesn't sound like it. The resentment is growing.
> 
> Best wishes,


I 100% realize that I probably won't ever get what I am wanting in this marriage.

I'm not sure at this point if it's a deal breaker. Still mulling it over.

Many days, I say it's not worth it. But then last night we had wonderful earth shattering sex, that included some passion from him. And he gives me just enough hope to hang onto.

The bottom line is, he knows what I want, he can and does give it to me occasionally. So it's not like he is incapable. Which then makes me think, if there was a way to encourage and nurture that part, then perhaps he could learn to at least keep me feeling satisfied with our intimacy. 

It's like I can see a little taste of what I want. I know it's there, (barely) I just have to dig for it. I can't really tell at this point if I can ever bring it out to a level I'm happy with, or if I'll continue to get just enough to tease me and make me resentful.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I can't remember if we talked about it here before or some other thread, maybe my own. It's not a lack of sex issue it's a lack of desire issue and it sucks. Quantity/quality of sex is just the end result and the quantifiable "measuring stick".
> 
> Sorry you're still in that situation CW, best wishes with the doc.


:iagree:

YES!

It's not that I'm in a sexless marriage, by any means. I feel bad comparing myself to people that are getting it once a month or less. My marriage just has no desire. So I guess I'm desireless. lol. Which translates to bad, lack luster, boring, resentful, and hurtful sex. We aren't talking about taking out the trash, it's sex. It's suppose to be fun, not something you avoid as long as possible.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It's not that I'm in a sexless marriage, by any means. I feel bad comparing myself to people that are getting it once a month or less. My marriage just has no desire. So I guess I'm desireless. lol. Which translates to bad, lack luster, boring, resentful, and hurtful sex. We aren't talking about taking out the trash, it's sex. It's suppose to be fun, not something you avoid as long as possible.


Honestly, TCW, I don't know what would be worse. 

A sexless marriage is just that. No desire to have sex...It sucks, but at least you know where you stand. Your partner is either LD or doesn't desire to have sex with you. 

But, having regular sex with a partner that showed no passion? My guess is that would be almost torture trying to figure it out...


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He's been incredibly honest. He doesn't really like sex. It's why he can't stay hard. 

Worse - he thinks he is perfectly fine - AS IS - so he doesn't even want to see if raising his T levels would make him want it. 

Worse worse - he's perfectly ok with you being perfectly miserable with this one part of your marriage. 

He loves you. He loves himself more. 

You're in a negotiation where:
- He already has more power - you can't MAKE him have sex
- Each day that passes brings you closer to the date where your bio clock will begin ticking loudly enough to drown out rational thought 
- He's already told you that after you have kids - you two won't have TIME for sex

You're in a trap that is slowly, inexorably closing. One day you'll realize it's too late to leave. On that day you will feel - true despair. 







TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> YES!
> 
> It's not that I'm in a sexless marriage, by any means. I feel bad comparing myself to people that are getting it once a month or less. My marriage just has no desire. So I guess I'm desireless. lol. Which translates to bad, lack luster, boring, resentful, and hurtful sex. We aren't talking about taking out the trash, it's sex. It's suppose to be fun, not something you avoid as long as possible.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Honestly, TCW, I don't know what would be worse.
> 
> A sexless marriage is just that. No desire to have sex...It sucks, but at least you know where you stand. Your partner is either LD or doesn't desire to have sex with you.
> 
> But, having regular sex with a partner that showed no passion? My guess is that would be almost torture trying to figure it out...


It is very confusing and mentally exhausting.

I am always wondering, even when he initiates. "Is he just doing this for me? Would he rather be anywhere else right now?" etc. 

His birthday came and went yesterday. No mention of sex. Who doesn't want sex on their birthday? It's unfathomable to me. :scratchhead: It just shows the blatant differences in us. I'd ask for sex 3 times on my birthday if I thought he would agree.

We had sex the day before, and I asked him if there was anything special he wanted me to do, any new positions, etc. Nope. Want a back rub? Nope. The lingerie wasn't even brought out.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Very true MEM. The doctor is tomorrow and I'm curious to what my husband is going to say. Last night I told him he better be truthful. He wants me to do all the talking because he doesn't want to answer intimate questions, but I'm going to try to keep my mouth shut and let him talk about our issues. It's his problem and he needs to own it. Unless he leaves stuff off, then I will call him out. 

He has been beginning to soften, and admit that he isn't quite right. He is embarrassed that he is "broken." But if you have a problem then just take care of it for pete's sake. Don't bury your head in the sand.

I'll support him, but he will get no sympathy. 

I'm really crossing my fingers that the doctor will try the T treatments or something else. I don't want him not to take us seriously and say we are fine. If it starts heading that way I will make it clear that it is NOT okay.

Pray for us!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Worse - he thinks he is perfectly fine - AS IS - so he doesn't even want to see if raising his T levels would make him want it.


He still thinks this is all just a ploy for me to get more sex. In his brain it's normal and okay for him not to like sex. I'm just the one stirring up trouble because I'm never satisfied. I'm the unreasonable one. 

I wonder if he was married to someone else if they would be having these same issues? Probably not, if they were only having sex once a week or so. But the fact still remains, he is a man in his 20's who has no nighttime woodys, he doesn't desire sex, he has occasional ED, no facial hair, and he falls asleep very early. That is not healthy.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Very true MEM. The doctor is tomorrow and I'm curious to what my husband is going to say. *Last night I told him he better be truthful.* He wants me to do all the talking because he doesn't want to answer intimate questions, but I'm going to try to keep my mouth shut and let him talk about our issues. It's his problem and he needs to own it. *Unless he leaves stuff off, then I will call him out. *
> 
> He has been beginning to soften, and admit that he isn't quite right. He is embarrassed that he is "broken." But if you have a problem then just take care of it for pete's sake. Don't bury your head in the sand.
> 
> *I'll support him, but he will get no sympathy.*
> 
> I'm really crossing my fingers that the doctor will try the T treatments or something else. I don't want him not to take us seriously and say we are fine. *If it starts heading that way I will make it clear that it is NOT okay.
> *
> Pray for us!



Roar baby roar!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He still thinks this is all just a ploy for me to get more sex. In his brain it's normal and okay for him not to like sex. I'm just the one stirring up trouble because I'm never satisfied. I'm the unreasonable one.
> 
> I wonder if he was married to someone else if they would be having these same issues? Probably not, if they were only having sex once a week or so. But the fact still remains, he is a man in his 20's who has no nighttime woodys, he doesn't desire sex, he has occasional ED, no facial hair, and he falls asleep very early. That is not healthy.


If he was married to someone else....?

He likely would be in the same boat my dear. He is a very needy fellow and he would only be attracted to someone who would meet his emotional needs with gusto. He would never notice that he doesn't meet her needs.

The fact remains that his issues don't fit for a man in his 20's. But more importantly, his issues don't fit for what you need. Worst case scenario, doc says all is fine medically. Now your H has been vindicated and the finger gets pointed back on you for being outrageous in your expectations. Then what?

I wonder if it would be best to tell the doc in front of your H that his lack of desire is not something you can live with and if it can't be fixed, you won't be able to stay in love. You can't be expected to stay in live with a man who cannot/will not make you feel loved.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> If he was married to someone else....?
> 
> He likely would be in the same boat my dear. He is a very needy fellow and he would only be attracted to someone who would meet his emotional needs with gusto. He would never notice that he doesn't meet her needs.
> 
> The fact remains that his issues don't fit for a man in his 20's. But more importantly, his issues don't fit for what you need. Worst case scenario, doc says all is fine medically. Now your H has been vindicated and the finger gets pointed back on you for being outrageous in your expectations. Then what?
> 
> I wonder if it would be best to tell the doc in front of your H that *his lack of desire is not something you can live with and if it can't be fixed, you won't be able to stay in love*. You can't be expected to stay in live with a man who cannot/will not make you feel loved.


:iagree:

That is what I told husband. He is married to me and it bothers me, so therefore it's a problem. It shouldn't matter if he is "normal" or not. 

The bolded part is exactly what I'm going to say.... Bam. The boom just dropped.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That is what I told husband. He is married to me and it bothers me, so therefore it's a problem. It shouldn't matter if he is "normal" or not.
> 
> The bolded part is exactly what I'm going to say.... Bam. The boom just dropped.



Double roar and bonus points for assertiveness!

Read this before you go...

"There is nothing wrong with my needs to have a passionate response from my husband. It is healthy and normal to desire this and need this. I have a lot of love to give and I expect to feel this love reciprocated in the ways that I receive love."


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Will be thinking of you and your husband tomorrow Curious - will send good thoughts and prayers your way!


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious: I have been following your thread since the beginning ALMOST 2 YEARS AGO. I would suggest that you stop spending your energy fixing your H and use it instead to figure out what you want. Just saying.

Your marriage reminds me of my golf game. I enjoyed golf, had fun playing, but I was not very good, which was frustrating for me. I tried everything, new clubs, going to the driving range, lessons, etc, nothing helped. The worse thing is with golf you can play 18 holes and totally suck, but somewhere out there you hit a shot that is remarkable. I one time holed out (made it in the hole) from 40 yards out! Wow! I was so excited! High Fives all around. Smiles over beer later, you get the picture. That one shot was enough to make me want to come back the next 5 times I played, even tho I never came close to replicating that shot,( in fact was miserable a few times didn't throw my clubs but wanted to) I was miserable. Then one day, I decided to enter a 1 mile open water swim race (thats in a lake). I didn't do all that well, but MAN was it fun! I started taking the time I spent golfing and put it into the pool, my times improved, met a lot of great people, and now I swim 5ks! I have never looked back, my clubs have been in my basement for three years, I don't miss the game, I am far better suited as a swimmer than a golfer. Had I never left golf for something else, I would now be an unhappy golfer, playing round after round, with my only reward being that one shot ever 5-6 rounds or so. You get my point I am sure.

You have so much to give. There are thousands of guys here on TAM that would love to have you as their partner. Thousands of guys here on TAM who would give their eye teeth to have a woman that wants them, a woman they could appreciate, do things for, a happy couple for sure. Project those numbers to the general population and we are talking millions of guys. I don't know if your H is selfish, asexual, has a medical condition, immature........ but he and you are not a match, not unless he changes, which isn't going to happen...sorry. The question you need to decide on, are you going to continue to golf or hit the pool? If you decide to golf, gods speed, I honor your right to your choice. But I would stop taking lessons, would not buy any new clubs, because where you are is where you will be. All that stuff is just taking your time and is not getting you anywhere. 
For what it is worth.

Hoosier


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Fvcking brilliant Hoosier!


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Very true MEM. The doctor is tomorrow and I'm curious to what my husband is going to say. Last night I told him he better be truthful. He wants me to do all the talking because he doesn't want to answer intimate questions, but I'm going to try to keep my mouth shut and let him talk about our issues. *It's his problem and he needs to own it. Unless he leaves stuff off, then I will call him out. *
> 
> He has been beginning to soften, and admit that he isn't quite right. He is embarrassed that he is "broken." But if you have a problem then just take care of it for pete's sake. Don't bury your head in the sand.
> 
> I'll support him, but he will get no sympathy.
> 
> I'm really crossing my fingers that the doctor will try the T treatments or something else. I don't want him not to take us seriously and say we are fine. If it starts heading that way I will make it clear that it is NOT okay.
> 
> Pray for us!


Hoping the dr appointment goes well tomorrow! 

Do some research into testosterone treatments though before seeing it as your saving grace. All medications/treatments have side effects that you should be aware of, just so you know about what to look out for.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> In his brain it's normal and okay for him not to like sex.


No, he *knows* he's not normal. 

No one paying any attention to popular culture thinks it's normal for a man in his 20's to not like sex.

Instead of owning the fact that he's far from normal, he turns it on you and tries to gaslight you into thinking you're the problem.

Which is a pretty mean thing to do to someone that you supposedly love.

Don't get divorced because of the sex. Get divorced because he's an a$$hole that doesn't care about you.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Buddy400 said:


> Don't get divorced because of the sex. Get divorced because he's an a$$hole that doesn't care about you.


This is painfully true from my vantage point, TCW.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Buddy400 said:


> No, he *knows* he's not normal.
> 
> No one paying any attention to popular culture thinks it's normal for a man in his 20's to not like sex.
> 
> Instead of owning the fact that he's far from normal, he turns it on you and tries to gaslight you into thinking you're the problem.
> 
> Which is a pretty mean thing to do to someone that you supposedly love.
> 
> Don't get divorced because of the sex. Get divorced because he's an a$$hole that doesn't care about you.


You are right! He knows he is not normal.

He just tries to rationalize and make himself believe he is normal. 

Your last line made me laugh.  I'll have to remember that one.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hoosier your analogy is spot on.

But I'm still back in the trying over and over phase.

I'm sure some day I will finally decide enough is enough, but I'm stubborn. lol. I guess I'm a slow learner.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> TCW,
> 
> I know you say he's a great guy all in all. I've read your words and agree with you. But, I can almost guarantee he'll never be able to satisfy your "womanly" needs. It's such a shame that such an important piece of being a couple is completely missing. At this point, I doubt an overdose of testosterone would do it!
> *
> He absolutely lacks any kind of passion, lust, sex, admiration, desire, ardor, enthusiasm, etc, etc, etc.
> *
> It sucks big time! I know others have said this to you, but are you really willing to live without all of the wonderful human emotions? You do desire them deeply and it will only fester over time. You will have to make the choice of living without or, well, you know...
> 
> Your post above doesn't sound like it. The resentment is growing.
> 
> Best wishes,


Actually the bolded can be symptoms of low T, now to see if he does anything about it.




TheCuriousWife said:


> His birthday came and went yesterday. No mention of sex. Who doesn't want sex on their birthday? It's unfathomable to me. :scratchhead: It just shows the blatant differences in us. I'd ask for sex 3 times on my birthday if I thought he would agree.


:rofl:me too!



TheCuriousWife said:


> He still thinks this is all just a ploy for me to get more sex. In his brain it's normal and okay for him not to like sex. I'm just the one stirring up trouble because I'm never satisfied. I'm the unreasonable one.
> 
> I wonder if he was married to someone else if they would be having these same issues? Probably not, if they were only having sex once a week or so. But the fact still remains, he is a man in his 20's who has no nighttime woodys, he doesn't desire sex, he has occasional ED, no facial hair, and he falls asleep very early. That is not healthy.


If it was still as passionless it would be a problem, even if he found a gal who only wanted sex once a week.

You are not abnormal for wanting sex. Many women in their 20s with no kids really want sex.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Actually the bolded can be symptoms of low T, now to see if he does anything about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :rofl:me too!
> 
> 
> 
> If it was still as passionless it would be a problem, even if he found a gal who only wanted sex once a week.
> 
> *You are not abnormal for wanting sex. Many women in their 20s with no kids really want sex.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> So true, my husband and I had sex almost EVERY day the first three years of our marriage - unless one of us was sick. Curious' scenario is just astounding to me. It's so hard to imagine a man as young as her husband not jumping at the chance to have sex with his wife every chance he gets.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Actually the bolded can be symptoms of low T, now to see if he does anything about it.
> 
> :rofl:me too!
> 
> If it was still as passionless it would be a problem, even if he found a gal who only wanted sex once a week.
> 
> You are not abnormal for wanting sex. Many women in their 20s with no kids really want sex.


Coincidentally we were watched Everybody Loves Raymond last night, and the episode was about birthday sex. 

Oh the irony.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Compatibility trumps love.

Most folks in sexless marriages actually love theor partners - they also gradually become more and more miserable over time....

And the more time they invest.....

The only time I ever see anyone escape the trap is to:

Pick a HARD date. Don't tell him. And absent a big change in his mindset and behavior by that date. File.







Hoosier said:


> Curious: I have been following your thread since the beginning ALMOST 2 YEARS AGO. I would suggest that you stop spending your energy fixing your H and use it instead to figure out what you want. Just saying.
> 
> Your marriage reminds me of my golf game. I enjoyed golf, had fun playing, but I was not very good, which was frustrating for me. I tried everything, new clubs, going to the driving range, lessons, etc, nothing helped. The worse thing is with golf you can play 18 holes and totally suck, but somewhere out there you hit a shot that is remarkable. I one time holed out (made it in the hole) from 40 yards out! Wow! I was so excited! High Fives all around. Smiles over beer later, you get the picture. That one shot was enough to make me want to come back the next 5 times I played, even tho I never came close to replicating that shot,( in fact was miserable a few times didn't throw my clubs but wanted to) I was miserable. Then one day, I decided to enter a 1 mile open water swim race (thats in a lake). I didn't do all that well, but MAN was it fun! I started taking the time I spent golfing and put it into the pool, my times improved, met a lot of great people, and now I swim 5ks! I have never looked back, my clubs have been in my basement for three years, I don't miss the game, I am far better suited as a swimmer than a golfer. Had I never left golf for something else, I would now be an unhappy golfer, playing round after round, with my only reward being that one shot ever 5-6 rounds or so. You get my point I am sure.
> 
> You have so much to give. There are thousands of guys here on TAM that would love to have you as their partner. Thousands of guys here on TAM who would give their eye teeth to have a woman that wants them, a woman they could appreciate, do things for, a happy couple for sure. Project those numbers to the general population and we are talking millions of guys. I don't know if your H is selfish, asexual, has a medical condition, immature........ but he and you are not a match, not unless he changes, which isn't going to happen...sorry. The question you need to decide on, are you going to continue to golf or hit the pool? If you decide to golf, gods speed, I honor your right to your choice. But I would stop taking lessons, would not buy any new clubs, because where you are is where you will be. All that stuff is just taking your time and is not getting you anywhere.
> For what it is worth.
> 
> Hoosier


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW, I haven't nearly read your whole thread, just bits and pieces. But you and your H remind me of me and my H 10 years ago. All those little frustrations that leave you wondering if you're asking too much & making too big a deal out of nothing, or if there really is more going on.

H and I have been married almost 11 years now, and he told me a month ago that he doesn't love me. When pressed about how long, he said he didn't know, he hasn't thought about it. When pressed some more, he ventured about 5 years. I think it was longer.

He told me the whole time that he did love me, but his actions said otherwise. 

Be firm, get a treatment plan with the doctor, and set a deadline for him to follow through. If there's no medical condition, you have to consider that he's choosing to treat you like this. Getting out now will be a heck of a lot easier than getting out in 10 years and 2 kids.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thinking about Curious today.........I hope things go well with the doctor visit.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yesterday just sucked. 

The doctor said he is perfectly healthy. It's normal that he can't get erections every day, it's normal that he has no facial hair, it's normal that he doesn't desire sex. Apparently he is fine because he "sometimes" gets nighty erections. But I've ever only seen/felt a couple in our entire marriage, and they were always barely hard, not even 50%. But the doctor is just like "well you probably just didn't see them at the right time." Uh no, we spoon all night and I'm a light sleeper. I argued with the doctor and made him mad. He says it's all in his head, because I pressure him. So apparently I'm an overbearing and sex crazy wife.

Then we came home and had a horrible discussion. The good news is, it's all out there. The bad news is, neither of us could see any improvement in the future, or any answer. This is the lowest point in our marriage, and it's just not looking too good. 

Husband finally came out and said just how he is feeling. That I want too much, that he is never going to be able to do what I want. He thinks I'm needy and obsessed. He says sex is a chore, and it's not any fun because he _has_ to have sex with me. He says I get upset and cranky if he turns me down (which I do) and therefore he can't say no because I'll be mad at him. So he just grits his teeth and fakes it (not orgasm), all while resenting me. He says he never feels like it is enough, and that he will never be able to satisfy me. He thinks all I care about is sex, and that it rules my life. He thinks I need mental help, and maybe I do. I think about sex at least 50% of the time. Probably more. I know I have some form of OCD and count things, like keeping track of the days inbetween sex. I'm a logical, math minded, and numbers kind of person though. I've always been like that. 

He says I get irrationally upset when I get rejected. Please note I don't get mad, or mean, I just don't act very talkative for a few days. He says I need to stop taking it so personally. But I can't. I don't understand how not to take it personally. I feel like a fat, ugly, old hag when my husband is disgusted when I try to touch him. 

I told him how it's how I feel loved, and that I don't need sex. I just need intimacy and sexual desire. If we just snuggled more, flirted more, kissed more, etc, I wouldn't need as much sex. He says he tries and that he is just never good enough.

He just doesn't understand at all, and said, "even if I had sex with you every day for a month, if we skipped a week after that, you'd be mad." Uh yeah. I told him it's not like it stores up like a camel. 

The truth is, he is entitled to his emotions and opinions and so am I. Neither of us is "wrong" but we are incompatible. That makes me horribly upset. Neither of us can change who we are. I cried for hours last night. I don't get why sex has such a hold on me. I've always been an independent person, and never needed anyone for anything. But for some reason with sex it's different. 

I will never understand his whatever mood about sex, and he will never understand my sexual need. I just don't see it working out. We are going to attend counseling and see if we can figure out a middle ground. I may also attend IC to see if I can loosen my attachment to sex and my self worth. But the future looks pretty bleak.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I got barely any sleep last night, and we have friends coming over before husband gets home from work for his birthday. They will be staying late, late, then I have to get up at 5 am and go to a work meeting until probably 11pm or later. 

So no more one on one time until at least Sunday afternoon. I'm suppose to be chipper with our friends and act like everything is hunky dory. Then I'm suppose to go sit in a class for over 12 hours on 5 hours of sleep. 

My great planned weekend just turned into the worst weekend ever.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He says he never feels like it is enough, and that he will never be able to satisfy me. He thinks all I care about is sex, and that it rules my life. He thinks I need mental help, and maybe I do. I think about sex *at least 50% of the time*. Probably more. I know I have some form of OCD and count things, like keeping track of the days inbetween sex. I'm a logical, math minded, and numbers kind of person though. I've always been like that.



Probably more than most women, less than a your generic slightly below average male. I'd say you are OK!:smthumbup:


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am sorry, TCW, but it sounds like this is the reality check that you needed. Now your major task is to stop getting unrealistic expectations over the crumbs he gives you.

This will be the pattern of your relationship moving forward, and I just do not see it getting better.

I think you know this but don't want to accept it.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW... I'm so sorry yesterday didn't go like you had hoped . Instead of finding support and solutions, you encountered an arrogant doctor who minimized and blew off all of YOUR concerns. For what it's worth, here's my take on it:



TheCuriousWife said:


> The doctor said he is perfectly healthy. It's normal that he can't get erections every day, it's normal that he has no facial hair, it's normal that he doesn't desire sex.


Sorry doc, but this it not normal.



TheCuriousWife said:


> The truth is, he is entitled to his emotions and opinions and so am I. Neither of us is "wrong" but *we are incompatible.*...Neither of us can change who we are... I will never understand his whatever mood about sex, and he will never understand my sexual need. I just don't see it working out.


This is the crux of the issue. You two are a sexual mismatch, thus incompatible in that regard. I don't think any amount of marriage counseling is going to turn him into the passionate, Adonis lover that you crave. The most you're gonna get from counseling is a "meet in the middle approach" with more, but still lukewarm, mediocre-quality sex. But this is problematic NOW because of the things your husband said to you:



TheCuriousWife said:


> Husband finally came out and said just how he is feeling...
> 
> 
> That I want too much
> That he is never going to be able to do what I want
> He thinks I'm needy and obsessed
> He says sex is a chore, and it's not any fun because he _has_ to have sex with me
> He just grits his teeth and fakes it (not orgasm), *all while resenting me*
> He says he never feels like it is enough, and that he will never be able to satisfy me
> He thinks all I care about is sex, and that it rules my life.


The problem is, he can never un-say those words -- especially that he resents you  -- and despite therapy, you will likely be thinking of his harsh judgment statements about you every time you have sex.



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think about sex at least 50% of the time. Probably more... I don't get why sex has such a hold on me.


There's nothing wrong with you. You have a high sex drive and you crave sex because your sexual needs are not being met. He has a low sex drive, thus simply cannot understand how you can desire it so much, resulting him criticizing you harshly for just being _yourself_. Again, that's what happens with a sexual mismatch.

The only thing that I halfway agree with the doctor about is the fact that your husband is losing his erections due to his "perceived" pressure that you are placing on him, but this is not your fault. Your husband goes into sex with a very negative outlook (dreading it, feels pressured, resents you, will never be able to please you, etc.) and it is quite possibly affecting his performance.

I'm very sorry for what you are going through.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Every couple will have some level of incompatibility, but it sucks when you have one or more that are deal breakers. You know I can fully sympathize with you there. When discussing my sitch with my mom recently, including our HD/LD issue, even she said it's something that you really need to find out about before you get married which is hard for her to admit because she's otherwise against premarital sex for her religious views. I'll only add now that whatever happens be glad you're figuring this out and dealing with it in your 20's and not until your 40's like some of us.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm an old guy and I've seen and heard a lot of things in my life. I bet I'm older than that so and so of a sawbones.

And I can tell you that it is at 29 yo (or whatever he is), it is NOT normal to not have very strong morning wood. Often. This doc is full of it!

And as far as you being independent and normally not needy, but with a high expectation of frequent sex, I think most of us have that expectation. That's a big reason why most of us get married.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yesterday just sucked.
> 
> The doctor said he is perfectly healthy. It's normal that he can't get erections every day, it's normal that he has no facial hair, it's normal that he doesn't desire sex. Apparently he is fine because he "sometimes" gets nighty erections. But I've ever only seen/felt a couple in our entire marriage, and they were always barely hard, not even 50%. But the doctor is just like "well you probably just didn't see them at the right time." Uh no, we spoon all night and I'm a light sleeper*. I argued with the doctor and made him mad. He says it's all in his head, because I pressure him. So apparently I'm an overbearing and sex crazy wife*.


There you go. A true testament to how little is understood and subsequently taught in med school about women's sexuality and sexuality in general.

The doc was way off base.



> Then we came home and had a horrible discussion. The good news is, it's all out there. The bad news is, *neither of us could see any improvement in the future, or any answer. *This is the lowest point in our marriage, and it's just not looking too good.


Bolded, kind of what this entire thread has been about. Sorry honey...




> Husband finally came out and said just how he is feeling. That I want too much, that he is never going to be able to do what I want. He thinks I'm needy and obsessed. He says sex is a chore, and it's not any fun because he _has_ to have sex with me. He says I get upset and cranky if he turns me down (which I do) and therefore he can't say no because I'll be mad at him. So he just grits his teeth and fakes it (not orgasm), all while resenting me. He says he never feels like it is enough, and that he will never be able to satisfy me. He thinks all I care about is sex, and that it rules my life. He *thinks I need mental help, and maybe I do. I think about sex at least 50% of the time. Probably more. I know I have some form of OCD and count things, like keeping track of the days inbetween sex. I'm a logical, math minded, and numbers kind of person though. I've always been like that.
> *



:rofl: Classic! Of course the problem is all you. The doc just backed him up so he is normal and you are not.

Keeping track of the days you have sex...why do you think you started doing that? Because you weren't getting your needs met and you were trying to understand how his needs conflicted with your. You came to understand he needed time between sex to recharge. This started not because you have a bit of OCD but because you are not getting sex enough and you needed to keep track!




> He says I get irrationally upset when I get rejected. Please note I don't get mad, or mean, I just don't act very talkative for a few days. He says I need to stop taking it so personally. But I can't. I don't understand how not to take it personally. I feel like a fat, ugly, old hag when my husband is disgusted when I try to touch him.


Every woman feels like that. Every single woman! I was sexually rejected once. One time only. I don't have enough ...whatever it takes ... to cope with that. I can't imagine having to cope with that a few times a week. I can't imagine ever wanting to have sex with this man ever again knowing inside he resents you for wanting something from him that he doesn't want to give! 

Personally, I'd be packing bags and canceling plans. I know you won't read this in time. But if by chance...you should cancel the plans tonight, do NOT pretend all is well when all is sh!t!




> I told him how it's how I feel loved, and that I don't need sex. I just need intimacy and sexual desire. If we just snuggled more, flirted more, kissed more, etc, I wouldn't need as much sex. He says he tries and that he is just never good enough.


I draw your attention to the lousy one sided approach your sex life used to be before you began to roar. 

BJ's for him and nothing for you. Damn right not good enough.
Sex for him and no effort for you. Damn right not good enough!
Lack of physical affection because he was playing his games. Damn right not good enough!
Sleeping apart so he could play his games with his buddies. Damn right not good enough.

Remember how he complained that you having an orgasm was too much work? Remember how he complained that you didn't need to have an orgasm every time?

Godamn right he's not good enough!!!!




> He just doesn't understand at all, and said, "even if I had sex with you every day for a month, if we skipped a week after that, you'd be mad." Uh yeah. I told him it's not like it stores up like a camel.
> 
> The truth is, he is entitled to his emotions and opinions and so am I. Neither of us is "wrong" *but we are incompatible*. That makes me horribly upset. Neither of us can change who we are. I cried for hours last night. I *don't get why sex has such a hold on me.* I've always been an independent person, and never needed anyone for anything. But for some reason with sex it's different.


Sex has a hold on you because you are a sexual person and therefore it is perfectly normal for sex to have such a hold on you!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop it! He is trying to knock you down, minimizing and making you feel like the problem must be you since he has been declared normal. Well if he was married to askari's wife they'd be a match made in heaven, having sex every other month! That ain't normal for people who are sexual!



> I will never understand his whatever mood about sex, and he will never understand my sexual need. I just don't see it working out. We are going to attend counseling and see if we can figure out a middle ground. I may also attend IC to see if I can loosen my attachment to sex and my self worth. But the future looks pretty bleak.


I'm sorry CW, I know you are hurting and don't want to face a divorce. But honey there is no middle ground here. He doesn't want to try to meet your needs. There are so many things he could do, in terms of sex, to meet your needs without having to produce an erection...as long as he showed interest in wanting to make you feel good, showed interest in your sexually except when he wanted to get off. But he is too selfish to see those options. He can't see beyond his penis...which doesn't work too well anyway.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks everyone. 

It's tough now, and I'm trying to decide what I want. I just don't even know at this point.

I know I don't want to keep going around and around. Whether that is me getting counseling so I can put a damper on my normal sex drive, or that is divorce I don't know yet. If I could go back to the times before we started having sex I would.  We were happy, without a care in the world. I never expected such angst. 

I felt very defensive at the doctor. He just seemed to be supporting husband, and saying, "don't worry you are fine." All while telling me I'm expecting too much, and that I needed to chill. Now husband is all high and mighty like, "I told you so." _Obviously_ the doctor said he is normal, so I am the one with the problem. I had to defend myself, and I'm pretty sure the doctor is just like, "Oh that poor guy. With his controlling, bossy, wife." No one cares what affect is has on me, because I'm just crazy and needy.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> It's tough now, and I'm trying to decide what I want. I just don't even know at this point.
> 
> I know I don't want to keep going around and around. Whether that is me getting counseling so I can put a damper on my normal sex drive, or that is divorce I don't know yet. If I could go back to the times before we started having sex I would.  We were happy, without a care in the world. I never expected such angst.
> 
> I felt very defensive at the doctor. He just seemed to be supporting husband, and saying, "don't worry you are fine." All while telling me I'm expecting too much, and that I needed to chill. Now husband is all high and mighty like, "I told you so." _Obviously_ the doctor said he is normal, so I am the one with the problem. I had to defend myself, and I'm pretty sure the doctor is just like, "Oh that poor guy. With his controlling, bossy, wife." No one cares what affect is has on me, because I'm just crazy and needy.


Selfish. He has been called that by many posters. I will echo that sentiment. 

TCW, when you finally walk away, you will wonder what took you so long...


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, do you think your husband could have called the doctor and talked with him before the appointment yesterday?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, do you think your husband could have called the doctor and talked with him before the appointment yesterday?


No. I'm sure he didn't. He isn't that conniving. He is super shy as well.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know you guys will think I'm stupid. But as bad as it is, I still really don't want to divorce. I like our house, I like our life, I like his family, and our friends, I like what we have made. 

I don't want to throw that all away.  I'm so confused and conflicted. 

I just wish I could take sex out of the equation. If there was a way we could just never have sex again and I would be happy, I would. I just don't think that is possible.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Get put on SSRI?

Don't worry. After a while your sex drive will fade away from lack of use. Of course that will have it's own price. Depression. Never KNOWING what it's like to be WANTED so bad your H gets blue balls just a day after having sex with you.

Good luck.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know you guys will think I'm stupid. But as bad as it is, I still really don't want to divorce. I like our house, I like our life, I like his family, and our friends, I like what we have made.
> 
> I don't want to throw that all away.  I'm so confused and conflicted.
> 
> I just wish I could take sex out of the equation. If there was a way we could just never have sex again and I would be happy, I would. I just don't think that is possible.


Do you realize how unhealthy this sounds? I think IC would do you some good, but not because of your sexuality. Codependency, however, is something you need to explore.

TCW, a few years ago I thought the same way. January last year I realized I was miserable. I figured i would rather be poor and walk away from my log home in the country, my fruit trees and grapes, etc., then to try to find emotional fulfillment in stuff. So I decided to make my marriage better. 

The difference in our situations is that my wife is not nearly as selfish as your husband. She makes an effort. It may not be as much as I would like, but she does. 

Your husband appears to have all the ammo he needs to paint you as the problem. As long as he can do that, he will not look at himself and will give minimal effort.

Telling you this may be just pissing in the wind, but I still feel compelled to tell you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oops. I forgot to add, Anon Pink.

I really don't want to cancel plans this weekend.  I've been looking forward to it for weeks. Maybe it will take my mind off things for a couple days. Then I will have a clear head to make decisions when the times comes.

Right now I just feel like throwing up.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know you guys will think I'm stupid. But as bad as it is, I still really don't want to divorce. I like our house, I like our life, I like his family, and our friends, I like what we have made.
> 
> I don't want to throw that all away.  I'm so confused and conflicted.
> 
> I just wish I could take sex out of the equation. If there was a way we could just never have sex again and I would be happy, I would. I just don't think that is possible.


Pulling away from my lifestyle was harder than pulling away from my STBX. I remember MissScarlet posting the same reason for not wanting to leave her husband. It only gets harder as the years go by, but I can sympathize with you there.


----------



## happy as a clam

TheCuriousWife said:


> I know you guys will think I'm stupid. But as bad as it is, I still really don't want to divorce. I like our house, I like our life, I like his family, and our friends, I like what we have made.
> 
> I don't want to throw that all away.  I'm so confused and conflicted.
> 
> I just wish I could take sex out of the equation. If there was a way we could just never have sex again and I would be happy, I would. I just don't think that is possible.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



farsidejunky said:


> Do you realize how unhealthy this sounds? I think IC would do you some good, but not because of your sexuality. Codependency, however, is something you need to explore.
> 
> TCW, a few years ago I thought the same way. January last year I realized I was miserable. I figured i would rather be poor and walk away from my log home in the country, my fruit trees and grapes, etc., then to try to find emotional fulfillment in stuff. So I decided to make my marriage better.
> 
> The difference in our situations is that my wife is not nearly as selfish as your husband. She makes an effort. It may not be as much as I would like, but she does.
> 
> Your husband appears to have all the ammo he needs to paint you as the problem. As long as he can do that, he will not look at himself and will give minimal effort.
> 
> Telling you this may be just pissing in the wind, but I still feel compelled to tell you.


I do realize I sound messed up. Which is why I think counseling would be good for me. No matter what I decide. Heck, maybe it would give me the strength to cut my ties.

As I've stated before, it's hard for me to believe I'm codependent. That just isn't me at all. I've never been close with friends or family. I guess it could just be him. But honestly I don't feel like I _need_ him for anything, other than sex. lol. That sounds bad. But what I mean is. I handle the decisions in the house, I pay the bills, and do the cooking and cleaning, etc. I'm fine if I'm home alone... I mean he helps with those things, but I could just as easily do them myself. 

Yes. I don't know if I can walk away. I'm living in my dream home, on a farm, with my dream job. At this point I couldn't afford it on my own, and I'm NOT willing to give up my animals, no matter the cost.

Maybe that just means saving up for a while or getting a higher paying job until I could keep the house. If divorce is what I decide. 4x4 is right. I think I would have a harder time walking away from my lifestyle than my husband. That thought saddens me.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

AnonPink just gave you the best advice ever, so I am stunned by your latest post. You seem to value a house, his parents, and your friends more than an intimate, loving, mutually respectful, sincere relationship with a person who you will spend THE REST OF YOUR LIFE with. 

I guess I have nothing else to offer. If you are willing to settle for a house and friends who will come and go, good luck . I honestly don't think there's anything more that TAM can do to help you break free of your obvious codependency. You will have to resign yourself to a life with a person who chooses to sleep with his video game friend over you (while you are alone in the bedroom), poor quality sex, a selfish, hurtful husband who could care less about YOUR needs.

Forget marriage counseling. You should explore IC to find out where your unhealthy codependency issues stem from.

I'm beginning to think your husband is right. Perhaps you ARE too needy, with unhealthy boundaries. You invest months and months in a thread, people involve inordinate amounts of time to help you solve your problem, only to have you turn around and tell us you value your material possessions more than you value a healthy loving, mutually satisfying sex life and relationship which is the whole topic of this thread.

Bottom line, he wins, you lose.

Best of luck, CW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> It's tough now, and I'm trying to decide what I want. I just don't even know at this point.
> 
> I know I don't want to keep going around and around. Whether that is me getting counseling so I can put a damper on my normal sex drive, or that is divorce I don't know yet. If I could go back to the times before we started having sex I would.  We were happy, without a care in the world. I never expected such angst.
> 
> I felt very defensive at the doctor. He just seemed to be supporting husband, and saying, "don't worry you are fine." All while telling me I'm expecting too much, and that I needed to chill. Now husband is all high and mighty like, "I told you so." _Obviously_ the doctor said he is normal, so I am the one with the problem. I had to defend myself, and I'm pretty sure the doctor is just like, "Oh that poor guy. With his controlling, bossy, wife." No one cares what affect is has on me, because I'm just crazy and needy.


Unfortunately, the doctor is not really off on what he said. There is always a range for what is normal, not just a certain strong point. Normal BMI is 18.5 to 25.0, normal blood pressure is more than 120 over 80 and less than 140 over 90, normal testosterone levels in males is about 270 to 1070 ng/dL, and so on, just as an example that it's not just one number. Some men have morning wood every day and some don't, but both can be "normal" even though it's not what you want. 

The stereotypes of men wanting sex all the time are just that, a stereotype. I personally hate that stereotype because I also have a higher sex drive than my husband and it only hurts the many women in the same situation. It is a reality though that hurts and you have to come to terms with. Your husband is in a range of normal and you are just not compatible. You want sex, he doesn't. You don't have to make any decisions quickly, but take the time to really think over how you view your life in 5 years from now, 10 years from now, etc. How do you envision your life with the new info you have now?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

What you're doing is very normal. Comparing the pain of the recent disconnects against the pain of divorce. 

Do that - and you'll stay together - forever. 

If however, you extrapolate the total amount of misery this will cause going forward - and compare that to divorce. You will file immediately. 

This is why this saying is so true: sex is 10% of the relationship when good and becomes 90% when bad 







TheCuriousWife said:


> Oops. I forgot to add, Anon Pink.
> 
> I really don't want to cancel plans this weekend.  I've been looking forward to it for weeks. Maybe it will take my mind off things for a couple days. Then I will have a clear head to make decisions when the times comes.
> 
> Right now I just feel like throwing up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> AnonPink just gave you the best advice ever, so I am stunned by your latest post. You seem to value a house, his parents, and your friends more than an intimate, loving, mutually respectful, sincere relationship with a person who you will spend THE REST OF YOUR LIFE with.
> 
> I guess I have nothing else to offer. If you are willing to settle for a house and friends who will come and go, good luck . I honestly don't think there's anything more that TAM can do to help you break free of your obvious codependency. You will have to resign yourself to a life with a person who chooses to sleep with his video game friend over you (while you are alone in the bedroom), poor quality sex, a selfish, hurtful husband who could care less about YOUR needs.
> 
> Forget marriage counseling. You should explore IC to find out where your unhealthy codependency issues stem from. Bottom line, he wins, you lose.
> 
> Best of luck, CW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For the record it's not my house or friends. It's my animals. They were around long before my husband, and I'll be danged if I have to give them up because he is messed up.

If that makes me codependent I don't care. 

I'm not saying that divorce isn't the answer. I just need a game plan to figure out a way to make it work.

He hasn't slept on the couch with his friends in months and months. Maybe even a year or more. No need to beat a dead horse. That problem is done over.


Ps: Thanks for being rude and hurtful and making me feel even more like crap. I know I'm messed up, I heard it for hours last night. I don't need your attitude on the only place I can come from comfort.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> What you're doing is very normal. *Comparing the pain of the recent disconnects against the pain of divorce.
> 
> Do that - and you'll stay together - forever.
> 
> If however, you extrapolate the total amount of misery this will cause going forward - and compare that to divorce. You will file immediately. *
> 
> This is why this saying is so true: sex is 10% of the relationship when good and becomes 90% when bad


Absolutely true. 

It's when you realize, truly realize and envision, that your life will always be this way or worse that divorce becomes palatable.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> PS: Thanks for being rude and hurtful and making me feel even more like crap. I know I'm messed up, I heard it for hours last night. I don't need your attitude on the only place I can come from comfort.


It is not my intention to be rude or hurtful. In fact, quite the opposite. And I certainly don't have "attitude." I was in your EXACT spot for *20 years.* It sucked, big time. Beaten down by a low-drive, passive-aggressive a$$hole husband who made me believe for more than half our marriage that I was some kind of crazed lunatic nymphomaniac! Oh, I know full well how it feels to be made love to by a man who loathes and despises sex. I'm sorry that you see my trying to spare you 20 years of misery (plus children's lives to trash) as rude and hurtful.

I wish someone had shaken some sense into my brain when I was a young bride in my twenties, BEFORE I brought children into the world and then scr*wed their lives up by them ending up in a broken family, I wish I had listened to my oldest brother who told me less than one year after getting married, "If he doesn't want to jump your bones every NIGHT, there's something wrong!"

And no, I never told my brother about our sex life, he figured it out on his own based on my ex's body language.

I'm sorry if you think I am trying to make you feel bad. My honest intention is to save you from the H*ELL that I, and many others, went through.

By all means, go to marriage counseling. Maybe you'll find a way there to "square the circle", so to speak.

P.S. There's a BIG difference in coming somewhere for "comfort" and coming somewhere to "complain" yet do nothing about it. Despite all of the WONDERFUL advice (forget mine) that has been given to you.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't think Curious just comes here to complain, I think she has made a lot of positive changes; however, unless her husband also is willing to make changes (and it sounds like he isn't), I don't know what else she can do. It takes two people to make a happy marriage. My heart breaks for Curious. I wish her husband would wake up and realize how he is hurting her and make the changes necessary to have a happy marriage and a fulfilling sex life for the both of them.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> For the record it's not my house or friends. It's my animals. They were around long before my husband, and I'll be danged if I have to give them up because he is messed up.
> 
> If that makes me codependent I don't care.
> 
> I'm not saying that divorce isn't the answer. I just need a game plan to figure out a way to make it work.
> 
> He hasn't slept on the couch with his friends in months and months. Maybe even a year or more. No need to beat a dead horse. That problem is done over.
> 
> 
> Ps: Thanks for being rude and hurtful and making me feel even more like crap. I know I'm messed up, I heard it for hours last night. I don't need your attitude on the only place I can come from comfort.


I think IC is a great idea.

I know divorce is scary. Needing to keep your animals...of course! 
Put don't put the cart before the horse here. 

Go to IC and decide if tamping down your needs is something you can happily do for the rest of your life (come on dear you know the answer to that)

Go to IC and gather strength, courage and insight enough to stand up for your needs and make a decision that will ultimately be in your best interest. (Which is leaving but I know this will take you a while to get there)

Once you've come to the conclusion this marriage cannot last, your next step is to be straight up honest with your H. No games. No playing around. You both work together and support each other as you make plans to divorce. There is no reason to become adversarial. Neither of you could have foreseen this being an issue, because neither of you had sexual experiences prior to marriage. 

Time and time again it has been shown that a deep sexual mismatch like yours is unsolvable without Herculean effort on BOTH of your parts. And no one believes for a minute that your H is capable of that kind of effort. 

Don't worry about your pets. That will work itself out when the time comes.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm so sorry Curious!



jorgegene said:


> I'm an old guy and I've seen and heard a lot of things in my life. I bet I'm older than that so and so of a sawbones.
> 
> And I can tell you that it is at 29 yo (or whatever he is), it is NOT normal to not have very strong morning wood. Often. This doc is full of it!
> 
> And as far as you being independent and normally not needy, but with a high expectation of frequent sex, I think most of us have that expectation. That's a big reason why most of us get married.


Agreed it's not normal or healthy. Even though low T has become somewhat normal if you check out the list of health issues that come with low T it is by no means healthy. The only reason it gets such backlash unlike high blood pressure is because of our socities sex hang ups.




TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> It's tough now, and I'm trying to decide what I want. I just don't even know at this point.
> 
> I know I don't want to keep going around and around. Whether that is me getting counseling so I can put a damper on my normal sex drive, or that is divorce I don't know yet. If I could go back to the times before we started having sex I would.  We were happy, without a care in the world. I never expected such angst.
> 
> I felt very defensive at the doctor. He just seemed to be supporting husband, and saying, "don't worry you are fine." All while telling me I'm expecting too much, and that I needed to chill. Now husband is all high and mighty like, "I told you so." _Obviously_ the doctor said he is normal, so I am the one with the problem. I had to defend myself, and I'm pretty sure the doctor is just like, "Oh that poor guy. With his controlling, bossy, wife." No one cares what affect is has on me, because I'm just crazy and needy.


If you have a good counselor I don't think they will tell your husband you are the problem. But at this problem I don't know I would even try counseling. Counseling only works for 2 people willing to try and are looking for tools.



TheCuriousWife said:


> I do realize I sound messed up. Which is why I think counseling would be good for me. No matter what I decide. Heck, maybe it would give me the strength to cut my ties.
> 
> As I've stated before, it's hard for me to believe I'm codependent. That just isn't me at all. I've never been close with friends or family. I guess it could just be him. But honestly I don't feel like I _need_ him for anything, other than sex. lol. That sounds bad. But what I mean is. I handle the decisions in the house, I pay the bills, and do the cooking and cleaning, etc. I'm fine if I'm home alone... I mean he helps with those things, but I could just as easily do them myself.
> 
> Yes. I don't know if I can walk away. I'm living in my dream home, on a farm, with my dream job. At this point I couldn't afford it on my own, and I'm NOT willing to give up my animals, no matter the cost.
> 
> Maybe that just means saving up for a while or getting a higher paying job until I could keep the house. If divorce is what I decide. 4x4 is right. I think I would have a harder time walking away from my lifestyle than my husband. That thought saddens me.


And you don't think you will ever be able to have all that again? Find a friend to board your animals while you get there.

I really don't see any hope at this point. The reason our situation worked out was because my husband wasn't a selfish a$$hole. Just a man struggling.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

A7,

There is baseline desire, and separate from that there is the desire to please. 

It's totally normal for folks to have a gap in baseline desire. 

In a healthy marriage - the desire to please bridges that gap and both folks meet in the middle. 

But there is a massive difference between LD and sexual aversion. And CW2 sounds more sexually averse than LD. 

There is no true compromise with a sexually averse partner. Only misery and despair.....




Anonymous07 said:


> Unfortunately, the doctor is not really off on what he said. There is always a range for what is normal, not just a certain strong point. Normal BMI is 18.5 to 25.0, normal blood pressure is more than 120 over 80 and less than 140 over 90, normal testosterone levels in males is about 270 to 1070 ng/dL, and so on, just as an example that it's not just one number. Some men have morning wood every day and some don't, but both can be "normal" even though it's not what you want.
> 
> The stereotypes of men wanting sex all the time are just that, a stereotype. I personally hate that stereotype because I also have a higher sex drive than my husband and it only hurts the many women in the same situation. It is a reality though that hurts and you have to come to terms with. Your husband is in a range of normal and you are just not compatible. You want sex, he doesn't. You don't have to make any decisions quickly, but take the time to really think over how you view your life in 5 years from now, 10 years from now, etc. How do you envision your life with the new info you have now?


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> But there is a massive difference between LD and *sexual aversion.* And CW2 sounds more sexually averse than LD.
> 
> There is no true compromise with a sexually averse partner. *Only misery and despair.....*


Spot on MEM, as always.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

LD is the most mis-fvcking-used term on TAM.

I HAVE - an LD partner. LD isn't a bad word to me. 

The reason it's a bad word to many is they grossly misuse it. 

Here is what 25 years with M2 has taught me. LD does NOT mean:

Selfish: Just because she isn't in the mood - doesn't mean she isn't open to the idea of sex. 

Unkind: I can't count the number of nights M2 has proactively looked at me and asked: is it ok if we connect tomorrow night?

Judgemental: She accepts my HD, doesn't demonize me for it

Lazy or bad in bed: If M2 really doesn't want to - she says. But when we do connect - she's ALL IN

Manipulative: Not not not

LD just means lower desire - and that's ALL it means. 




happy as a clam said:


> Spot on MEM, as always.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Your wife sounds like my husband was MEM. LD does not mean selfish jerk. No that's just a selfish jerk regardless of the level of desire. My husband was always a loving man, it was still hard but he wasn't cruel.


----------



## skype

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The difference between your wife, MEM, the LD spouse typically discussed on TAM, is that M2 wants to please you. She craves connection with you. When an LD spouse has no interest in the hurt and pain they are causing, then LD becomes a problem.

M2 also knows that you would outsource your needs, and that you could get another partner if you wanted to. Most people with LDers on TAM would never go elsewhere for relief, and would never leave their marriages. The LD knows that nothing will be done about the issue. There is no consequence to their behavior.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Skype,
Totally agree with what you said. 


At risk of sounding defensive - I have only raised the outsourcing option in a small number of extreme situations.

Maybe 3 times in 25 years. M2 has never gotten the impression that I WANT that result. 

I would say that boundary prevents her from weaponizing our sex life when she's feeling particularly combative. It absolutely isn't the driver of our day to day. 

Well - to be totally fair - one reason we have no tension in th bedroom is this. When I read guilt - I gently decline sex. And were I to read fear - I would not be able to perform. And we would have a reassuring talk. 

When you have a boundary pushing spouse - which I do - ocassionally you have to explain real world consequences that are ugly. But less ugly than cheating or being a walk away husband....






QUOTE=skype;12102777]The difference between your wife, MEM, the LD spouse typically discussed on TAM, is that M2 wants to please you. She craves connection with you. When an LD spouse has no interest in the hurt and pain they are causing, then LD becomes a problem.

M2 also knows that you would outsource your needs, and that you could get another partner if you wanted to. Most people with LDers on TAM would never go elsewhere for relief, and would never leave their marriages. The LD knows that nothing will be done about the issue. There is no consequence to their behavior.[/QUOTE]


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> There is baseline desire, and separate from that there is the desire to please.
> 
> It's totally normal for folks to have a gap in baseline desire.
> 
> *In a healthy marriage - the desire to please bridges that gap and both folks meet in the middle. *
> 
> But there is a massive difference between LD and sexual aversion. And *CW2 sounds more sexually averse than LD.*
> 
> There is no true compromise with a sexually averse partner. *Only misery and despair.....*


Beautiful, poignant, accurate, MEM. Couldn't agree more.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And by the way Happy as a Clam, I have to conceed you were right on this one.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Your doctor needs to know how you were treated by this doctor. I'm sure she doesn't want to refer there again.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Curious,
> 
> Your doctor needs to know how you were treated by this doctor. I'm sure she doesn't want to refer there again.


When I finally ratted my husband out to his doc about his ED, the doc suggested my husband go see a hooker a few times. This was 15 years ago... Not that long ago. Terrible badly trained doctors are everywhere.

Maybe you should find a therapist who also specializes in sexual problems.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am visioning this "Doctor" living alone with 50 cats...

Wow, now I've heard everything! 

Enjoy the weekend as best you can TCW! Tomorrows another day.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm very sorry your husband's feelings about sex were reinforced by the doctor but I'm not surprised. Many believe female sexuality is inferior to male sexuality because thousands of years of social conditioning said it was. Men are "supposed" to be obsessed with sex. But not all men are. Your husband isn't. Only you know if you can spend the rest of your life with passion and desire for you missing from your life. 

Children will complicate your sex life because they can be used to avoid sex. And your husband is not likely willing to give up the idea of children. 

You are facing a lifetime of sexual incompatibility and that obviously won't be easy. Take your time deciding but above all don't get pregnant.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I was speechless when I read the doctors reaction.

At a frequency of more than once a week CW2 suffers some amount of ED. At his age - that's an high level of sexual dysfunction. 

This is what I would do in CW's shoes. 

Write down an objective description of her observations of CW2 over the last 3 months. 

1. Average weekly frequency of sex
2. Percentage of times when CW2 had no ED at all
3. Percentage where he had mild ED - but was able to orgasm
4. Percentage where he had moderate to severe ED

I would email that to her friend/doctor and ask if she believes that:
- This meets the diagnostic criteria for a sexual condition
- Whether that condition typically merits insurance coverage of either viagra or testosterone

Just a sanity check. Then I would relate my experience with the doctor. 

That said, I would not complain about the doctor. And sadly, here's why. 

I absolutely believe he picked up CW2's total disinterest in sex. However he conveyed it - CW2 let the doc know that he is perfectly FINE with how he is and doesn't want to be treated. 

The brutal truth is that CW2 is that docs patient and his ONLY responsibility is to his patient. 

It is medically unethical for him to treat CW2 with hormones - which carry a small risk of substantive side effects - unless CW2 himself WANTS that treatment. 

---------
I know that some folks on TAM dislike analogies that compare anything work or money related to sex - but I'm going to make one anyway. 

When M2 accidentally got pregnant - our needs slammed head on into each other. 

M2 had always planned to be a SAHM. It was in her DNA. 
I had always planned to marry a working/career woman because I did NOT want to carry the full burden of providing for a family. 

Within a year I realized that to make the marriage thrive - I needed to step up. 

And M2 did her part. She was both very frugal and incredibly supportive of my long hours and high travel. 

But during that year I had a decision to make. And even though I couldn't have expressed it this way back then: Had I deprived M2 from being a SAHM - it would have driven her just as crazy as if she had deprived me of sex. 

It was truly her number one emotional need. 

And that's why I find CW2's indifference to her misery to utterly appalling. 

If he truly loved her he would either set her free or at least TRY the fvcking testosterone treatment. 





the2ofus said:


> Curious,
> 
> Your doctor needs to know how you were treated by this doctor. I'm sure she doesn't want to refer there again.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW, I know how you feel. I similarly hung my hopes on H having a treatable disorder (ADHD?), he went for neurological testing, and there were issues, yes, but nothing that explained his behavior. It's a lot to take in all at once. We went to marriage counseling, still no answers. It'd be nice to have answers, yes, but few people get them. When you're handed "this isn't a medical issue," you have to make the hard choices.

I would recommend you get into therapy. Be honest with your therapist, it could indeed be that you're not handling this well. If your H feels punished by your moping and is giving you duty sex but seething with resentment, well, that's not a pretty picture for either of you. Having sex with someone without their enthusiastic consent is not ok. If the gender roles were reversed here, I think you'd be getting a lot more flak. You have to take responsibility for your part in creating this dynamic. 

Good luck.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Please don't let your husband or his urologist or anyone else ever convince you that your sex drive is unnatural or wrong or something that can be put aside. You are not broken. You should want your husband like you do. You should want sex like you do. There is nothing wrong with the way you feel at all.

Like most things sexual, it is innate, something we are born with. Someone with dark hair can bleach their hair all they want but it doesn't change what it's programmed to be. Someone who is gay can deny and pretend it isn't so, but at the end of the day it always is.

I certainly share your frustration in the inability to change your situation much. But please at least don't let yourself be convinced that you are wrong or broken in wanting to share a passionate sex life with your husband. That's crazy to call that desire wrong or misplaced or dysfunctional. It's just not. At least give yourself that.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> At his age - that's an high level of sexual dysfunction.
> 
> 
> *That said, I would not complain about the doctor. And sadly, here's why.
> 
> I absolutely believe he picked up CW2's total disinterest in sex. However he conveyed it - CW2 let the doc know that he is perfectly FINE with how he is and doesn't want to be treated.
> 
> The brutal truth is that CW2 is that docs patient and his ONLY responsibility is to his patient.
> 
> It is medically unethical for him to treat CW2 with hormones - which carry a small risk of substantive side effects - unless CW2 himself WANTS that treatment.
> *
> ---------
> I find CW2's indifference to her misery to utterly appalling.
> 
> If he truly loved her he would either set her free or at least TRY the fvcking testosterone treatment.



Exactly. 

The doctor was treating your husband, not your marriage and not you. But what the doctor can't treat even if he sees it is your husbands indifference and your subsequent unhappiness.

Find a therapist soon...please?


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW2 isn't going to voluntarily go to another doctor for a very long time. This doc just gave him all of the ammo he needs in this marriage.

The only thing left to suggest is that YOU DO NOT GET PREGNANT!

You don't want to put the final nail into the coffin that is your sex life. If you want sex, you won't be having it with your husband.

It is done, over and finished.


----------



## techmom

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If you are going to have any effect on your situation, pull back. This guy should not get another blow job from you ever after what he said. Let him bask in his self-righteousness enabled by that doctor.

The medical field favors men over women especially in the sex department. If a woman is Low desire, she's not normal. When she is HD she is not normal. Damn shame...


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> It's not that I'm in a sexless marriage, by any means. I feel bad comparing myself to people that are getting it once a month or less. My marriage just has no desire. So I guess I'm desireless. lol. Which translates to bad, lack luster, boring, resentful, and hurtful sex. We aren't talking about taking out the trash, it's sex. It's suppose to be fun, not something you avoid as long as possible.


Not sexless YET. You guys are still newlyweds. Based on everything I've read at TAM, the amount of sex early in the marriage almost always diminishes dramatically as the years go by when you are with someone for whom sex just is not a priority. Unfortunately, therefore, I predict that it will end up sexless after a few more years.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> He's been incredibly honest. He doesn't really like sex. It's why he can't stay hard.
> 
> Worse - he thinks he is perfectly fine - AS IS - so he doesn't even want to see if raising his T levels would make him want it.
> 
> Worse worse - he's perfectly ok with you being perfectly miserable with this one part of your marriage.
> 
> He loves you. He loves himself more.
> 
> You're in a negotiation where:
> - He already has more power - you can't MAKE him have sex
> - Each day that passes brings you closer to the date where your bio clock will begin ticking loudly enough to drown out rational thought
> - He's already told you that after you have kids - you two won't have TIME for sex
> 
> You're in a trap that is slowly, inexorably closing. One day you'll realize it's too late to leave. On that day you will feel - true despair.



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



hoosier said:


> i don't know if your h is selfish, asexual, has a medical condition, immature........ But he and you are not a match


*This.*


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Okay, this is long, but could be critically important from a medical standpoint, so I've got to throw it out there. 

Unfortunately, what this doctor did doesn't surprise me. I've seen my share of dumb a$$ed doctors who will look black square-in-the-face and call it white. I nearly died because of it, and spent a good portion of my youth bed-ridden, suffering with an undiagnosed pituitary tumor. I'm bringing this up because, based on my knowledge of pit tumors, I have reason to wonder if your husband may have one. Despite the myriad of disturbing symptoms I suffered with, almost every doctor (mostly endos who were supposed to know this stuff) responded with "That's perfectly normal - there's nothing wrong with you". Some of what they were saying was normal was just SO ridiculous and absurd, it was like we were in the Twighlight Zone - very similar to what you just experienced from this doc, in terms of absurdity. 15 years of going to doctors, being told this, until that undiagnosed ticking time bomb on my brain had done boatloads of damage to my body, sent me into adrenal crisis, and _nearly killed me_. Turns out the symptoms for which I sought help for years were not normal (no kidding!). Despite the insistence of multiple idiot doctors and endos, there WAS something wrong with me - VERY wrong - I had a brain tumor, which was responsible for all those crazy symptoms the doctors so arrogantly, idiotically, and absurdly told me were _normal_. 

I had doctors tell me off, literally show me the door and tell me to get out of their offices, insult me and state things that clearly defied common sense, let alone contradicted the body of medical knowledge. My husband would come with me to doc appointments to back me up. He's highly intelligent, extremely rational, logical, and methodical in his thinking. He would calmly and politely back the doctors into a corner with reason, and then, rather than address any of his reasoning, they'd literally show HIM the door. Why do doctors do this $hit? No idea. Lazy, cant be bothered. Lacking basic understanding of the conditions they are supposed to know how to treat. Got their degrees from an ad in the back of a magazine, I sometimes wonder? In my personal journey, I discovered this propensity among doctors to deny the obvious, shoo patients out the door, and leave an undiagnosed condition or illness to continue to progress is very, very common. Internet discussion boards concerning all sorts of health issues, diseases and illnesses are filled with these kinds of stories. Patients pleading for help because something is OBVIOUSLY very wrong, and being insulted and told to go home and get a hobby. So, its a terrible thing, but not that much of a surprise. 

And certainly very damaging to any hopes for a positive outcome in your personal situation. 

But here's something I wonder about. Recently, in preparing for a legal issue related to my many years of misdiagnoses, I had to comb through a bunch of my old research notes on pituitary tumors (it was through my own research that my tumor was eventually diagnosed, just barely in the nick of time, after years and years of being blown off by doctors). In the process of reading through some of the material, I was reminded of the symptoms that a pituitary tumor can cause for a _man_. It made me wonder if your husband may have a pit tumor. I mean, his T is very low for a young guy of his age, which is one possible symptom of a pituitary tumor in men. 

This is extremely, extremely serious. Left undiagnosed, a pituitary tumor will lead to a whole host of serious symptoms, debilitating illnesses, and ultimately death. Pituitary tumors are notoriously not well understood by doctors, endos, etc. There are only a handful of pituitary specialists world wide. Therefore, if you suggest a pit tumor to your doctor, you run the risk of being told, "not likely, they are very rare". Not so, they are in fact quite common. They are simply grossly under diagnosed because doctors lack appropriate knowledge, which leads to the mistaken belief among doctors that they are rare. (See Pituitary.org)

This may be a long shot. But as someone who suffered for years with increasingly worsening and debilitating symptoms, that _all started out as relatively minor worries in the grand scheme of things_, and nearly died, I say its a shot that should be taken:

Ask your doctor friend is she can order a CT scan or preferably an MRI of your husbands brain to check for the possibility of a pituitary tumor that could potentially explain your husbands low T levels and symptoms. [CTs often miss pit tumors because they are so tiny - keep in mind, the pituitary is only the size of a pea, yet it is the "master gland" of the body. You can therefore imagine how tiny a pit tumor is, but it can literally kill you and certainly wreck havoc on your entire body if left untreated]. She should have the ability to order the CT/ MRI if you explain your concerns. You may need to educate her a bit on Pit tumors -website I gave you would be helpful. As discussed before, he's in the "normal range", but when one fully understands the "ranges" - your husband IS normal.... for an EIGHTY YEAR OLD MAN. This clearly requires further investigation, just as symptoms and test results I had in my early 20's should have been further investigated but were not because I was told I was "within normal ranges". I started out with "minor" complaints and some "minor" hormonal imbalances, which I would liken to what your husband is experiencing in terms of level of seriousness from a medical standpoint. Things progressed in seriousness over the years from there. By the time I was in my late 30s, I'd been bedridden on and off for a good portion of my best years, and was very close to death from an undiagnosed tumor that SHOULD have been found if the doctors were on the ball. They still found a way to blow me off, now saying I must just be suffering from depression (which they didn't try to treat). (For the record, I was _no_t depressed). I'd had a mild heart attack at 35 (pituitary tumors cause heart damage) and the list of what else I endured due to the tumor goes on and on. This is nothing to take lightly. 

Again, it may be a long shot, but pituitary tumors ARE a cause of low T in young men (or any men), and these tumors are so easily overlooked. Pituitary specialists are urging doctors to be vigilant is suspecting a pituitary tumor when patients come in with any of the symptoms that don't have a solid medical explanation. The fact that your husband has the T levels of an 80 year old does not have a sound explanation. And the docs can deny it all they want - docs deny the obvious all the time - but your husband has all the symptoms of low T for a guy his age, AND a well informed doctor would know that his lab results are way off the mark for his age. A pituitary tumor is something the docs would be very unlikely to consider on their own, so without some prompting, if your husband has one, it may never be discovered (until its too late). I had to really, really push my doc to investigate for a pituitary tumor once my research led me to suspect it, and I had a very concerned and open minded doc by this time. But lo and behold - there it was. 

As I stated here some months ago, you have to be your own advocate with doctors when you know something is not right physically. You have to be prepared to literally do battle with doctors. You can not stop fighting until you get answers. However, your biggest challenge right now is _your husband_. He's the one with the issue, and he's not admitting there is a problem. Now he's been all puffed up by this idiot doctor who has said hubs doesn't have a problem, you do (appalling). So how you're supposed to get your husband to even consider this now, I don't know. Ultimately, he's either smart enough to recognize and admit that there is a problem - or he is not. There may, in fact, be a much more serious issue here than either of you have even considered. But ultimately, you can't do his thinking for him. And in the end, if there is a more serious health issue underlying this, he is going to pay a price for being so stubborn and self-centered when you were telling him this doesn't seem right and asking him to take this seriously. Ultimately, you can only do what you can do. You are not responsible if he's not smart enough to take this more seriously. And this so called urologist you saw surely hasn't helped.

And let me be absolutely clear - even if he does have a medical issue, it does NOT excuse the fact that your H's attitude about the impact and effect this has on you is inexcusable. For him to be so unconcerned about something so natural for his wife to need and desire is beyond selfish and uncaring. And that is a definite problem - health issue or no.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> That said, I would not complain about the doctor. And sadly, here's why.
> 
> I absolutely believe he picked up CW2's total disinterest in sex. However he conveyed it - CW2 let the doc know that he is perfectly FINE with how he is and doesn't want to be treated.
> 
> The brutal truth is that CW2 is that docs patient and his ONLY responsibility is to his patient.
> 
> It is medically unethical for him to treat CW2 with hormones - which carry a small risk of substantive side effects - unless CW2 himself WANTS that treatment. .


Whether or not a person wanted treatment for their cancer or heart disease it would be the doctors duty to diagnose their patient correctly. Telling the patient they are perfectly normal because that is what they want to hear is negligent.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Whether or not a person wanted treatment for their cancer or heart disease it would be the doctors duty to diagnose their patient correctly. Telling the patient they are perfectly normal because that is what they want to hear is negligent.


Her husband is within a normal range, but on the very low end. The doctor should not and did not give him a treatment in order for him to have a higher drive to match his wife. That is not how medicine works. You have to only treat the patient(her husband) and the doctor did just that. Unfortunately, they have different sex drives and nothing can be done medically about it. They are just not compatible.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> Her husband is within a normal range, but on the very low end. The doctor should not and did not give him a treatment in order for him to have a higher drive to match his wife. That is not how medicine works. You have to only treat the patient(her husband) and the doctor did just that. Unfortunately, they have different sex drives and nothing can be done medically about it. They are just not compatible.


I have to repectfully disagree. The way it was described, the doctor was was not proactive and it was a brush off. He may have gone by the book, sort of, but ignored signs of possibly deeper health issues.

take two asprins and call me in the morning. Another pill doctor.

sorry. Doesnt cut it in my view.


----------



## soccermom2three

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> I have to repectfully disagree. The way it was described, the doctor was was not proactive and it was a brush off. He may have gone by the book, sort of, but ignored signs of possibly deeper health issues.
> 
> take two asprins and call me in the morning. Another pill doctor.
> 
> sorry. Doesnt cut it in my view.


I have question. Does the man's age have anything to do with the healthy range? Are doctors given range and then apply it to all men regardless of age? I guess to me it seems ridiculous to compare a man in his 20's to a man in his 50's. There should be a separate range to match the age of the man. Right? 

If 20-something woman had the hormone level of a 50 something woman, but still in range I think most doctors would show more concern.

I don't know if this makes sense, lol.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Soccer,

It makes perfect sense. There is a very high correlation between testosterone level and age. 

However T levels are complicated to manage for several reasons:

Two men - both at low end of the range for their age - may have radically different profiles. One may be very sexual and energetic the other not so much. Because many other factors effect the end result. 

For younger men, T levels vary pretty consistently by time of day, typically peaking early morning. 

According to the studies - older men have less variation in T levels by time of day. Maybe that's true - but my desire levels are definitely higher in the morning so....

Consequently - you typically need to PUSH a doctor to give you T. And that requires you to focus on significant quality of life issues that T supplements might resolve. 

But - as we see in so many threads - attempting to get an uncooperative spouse to do something they don't want to do - is like pushing on a string. 

CW wants CW2 to be a sexual person. He isn't and won't ever be. In fact he's at the outer edge of what he can tolerate right now. 

He's looking forward to totally shutting this part of the marriage down - like his parents did after having kids. 





soccermom2three said:


> I have question. Does the man's age have anything to do with the healthy range? Are doctors given range and then apply it to all men regardless of age? I guess to me it seems ridiculous to compare a man in his 20's to a man in his 50's. There should be a separate range to match the age of the man. Right?
> 
> If 20-something woman had the hormone level of a 50 something woman, but still in range I think most doctors would show more concern.
> 
> I don't know if this makes sense, lol.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FWIW, I'm also among those who think the doctor is correct here. Testosterone supplementation is fairly new, and the guidelines aren't as firm as I'd like. Given what happened with HRT for menopausal women, I'd be hesitant to recommend supplementation if I were a doctor. I'm guessing unforseen side effects will being to emerge in the next few years, and supplementation will fade away for the most part.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



northernlights said:


> FWIW, I'm also among those who think the doctor is correct here. Testosterone supplementation is fairly new, and the guidelines aren't as firm as I'd like. Given what happened with HRT for menopausal women, I'd be hesitant to recommend supplementation if I were a doctor. I'm guessing unforseen side effects will being to emerge in the next few years, and supplementation will fade away for the most part.


They are already having issues with strokes/heart attacks as a side effect from Testosterone replacement therapies. It shouldn't be given unless the man is below the normal range, but just like anti-biotics, Testosterone is given to basically anyone who pushes for it to shut the patient up. That is not how medicine should work. If the guy is within the normal range, he shouldn't be given it, as it typically causes more harm than good. The doctor was right to not prescribe anything. 

It does really suck when a couple has such different sex drives. I know the frustration myself, even though it's to a lesser degree and in different circumstances.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

To be clear.

The doctor was probably right not to prescribe testosterone. He is awful young to be stuck on T therapy for the rest of his life. That isn't why I was upset. 

I was upset because he seemed to just deny any concerns, and tell him he is completely fine, healthy, and normal. Which he is not.

Like jorgegene said I feel like he just brushed us off, instead of giving us ideas on where to look next. When we were about to leave I said, "So what do you suggest we do next?" He handed us a sample of viagra and said to take this if he continues having ED problems. 

Uh. He missed the whole point. The ED is not the main issues here.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Uh. He missed the whole point. The ED is not the main issues here.




CW, I agree. But with all due respect, the doctor cannot turn your man into a "passionate" lover. All the testosterone in the world isn't going to turn him into an alpha strong-man with chest and facial hair, who lives and breathes sex.

Sex drive has a lot to do with genetics, personality, and temperament.

You are a high sex drive individual. Your husband is not.

Bottom line... can you live with someone who does not meet your sexual needs? If yes, then great . Stay in your marriage, but accept the fact that you will have to adjust your expectations and meet somewhere in the middle. You can't keep harping on him for not providing enough sex, or the kind of sex you want, making him feel pressured for sex, because that is not fair to him. That is not meeting in the middle. Keep in mind though, that HE has to make changes too. You can clearly define what meeting in the middle looks like -- you want sex every day? He wants it once a week? Fine, you settle on 2-3 times a week. You want more affection, desire and passion? He doesn't? Well, that one is a bit trickier to work out. Which leads me to my next comment.

If you decide you cannot live with someone who does not meet your sexual needs, well then you already know what you have to do.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Is your husband going to try the Viagra Curious?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The weekend was long and rough. I went to bed at 8.30pm on Saturday!

I've cried a few more times when I was alone. 

Haven't gotten to discuss anymore, as I just wanted to take a break for a couple days and let my head clear. Besides the fact we have barely been alone.

Despite you guys thinking he is some kind of heartless monster, he just doesn't equate sex with love. He thinks it's similar to a fun hobby. I don't think he gets any emotional connection out of it. He told me he likes playing baseball but he wouldn't want to play it all the time. 

We are on two different wave lengths. We will never understand each other. But because he doesn't like sex, does not mean he doesn't love me. His attitude and how he goes about it is wrong. 

He is trying to be nice and sweet to me. This morning when I woke up he had breakfast with coffee and orange juice set out for me. In his head, this makes up for me being upset about sex.  

Not sure what is going to go down. Most likely we will attend sex counseling, and not get anywhere. Then hard decisions will have to be made.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Is your husband going to try the Viagra Curious?


He would.

But I do not feel like having sex anytime in the near future.

How am I suppose to enjoy sex without worrying about if he is silently resenting me? No thanks.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> CW, I agree. But with all due respect, the doctor cannot turn your man into a "passionate" lover. All the testosterone in the world isn't going to turn him into an alpha strong-man with chest and facial hair, who lives and breathes sex.
> 
> Sex drive has a lot to do with genetics, personality, and temperament.
> 
> You are a high sex drive individual. Your husband is not.
> 
> Bottom line... can you live with someone who does not meet your sexual needs? If yes, then great . Stay in your marriage, but accept the fact that you will have to adjust your expectations and meet somewhere in the middle. You can't keep harping on him for not providing enough sex, or the kind of sex you want, making him feel pressured for sex, because that is not fair to him. That is not meeting in the middle. Keep in mind though, that HE has to make changes too. You can clearly define what meeting in the middle looks like -- you want sex every day? He wants it once a week? Fine, you settle on 2-3 times a week. You want more affection, desire and passion? He doesn't? Well, that one is a bit trickier to work out. Which leads me to my next comment.
> 
> If you decide you cannot live with someone who does not meet your sexual needs, well then you already know what you have to do.


Right. You are correct.

But I do not believe I was harping on him. I never told him he was inadequate. I never pouted if he turned me down. I wasn't even initiating very often. If I don't get sex for a couple days I get quiet. I barely even notice I do it. But I guess he noticed and felt like I was trying to guilt trip him into having sex if it's been a few days. Which wasn't true. I was just having a natural reaction to being horny and feeling rejected. What am I suppose to do? Be chipper and pretend like everything is alright?

I thought we were meeting in the middle. We agreed early on to compromise and have sex 2 or 3 times a week. But for the last several weeks that number had dropped to 1 time a week. I made one little comment. He said, "we haven't been having as many ED problems lately." To which I replied, "Yeah. Because we have only been having sex once a week."

Then he blows up that I'm obsessed because I count the times in between sex, and that makes him feel pressured because he knows I'll be keeping track. Etc. 

Like I'm not suppose to notice if our sex declines. :scratchhead:

I don't think our 2-3 time a week compromise is going to work anymore. He told me that was too much, and that he doesn't enjoy it, it's a chore, and that he feels forced into it. He says he _will_ do it for a compromise. But I can't expect him to be passionate or enthusiastic about it. 

I can't have sex knowing all that.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Despite you guys thinking he is some kind of heartless monster, he just doesn't equate sex with love. He thinks it's similar to a fun hobby. I don't think he gets any emotional connection out of it. He told me he likes playing baseball but he wouldn't want to play it all the time.


I don't think he's a heartless monster at all . And you have summed up beautifully (above) exactly his perspective on sex. He views it as fun, but it does not drive an _emotional_ need for him as it does for you. Nothing wrong with that; it's just how he's wired. You are wired differently.



TheCuriousWife said:


> We are on two different wave lengths. We will never understand each other. But because he doesn't like sex, does not mean he doesn't love me. *His attitude and how he goes about it is wrong. *


His attitude and how he goes about it is NOT wrong for HIM. It may be wrong for YOU, but not wrong for HIM.  Again, it's how he's wired.



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is trying to be nice and sweet to me. This morning when I woke up he had breakfast with coffee and orange juice set out for me. In his head, this makes up for me being upset about sex.


CW, that IS nice and sweet. Nothing wrong with him doing something kind for making you feel bad. My SO brings me a steaming hot cup of coffee in bed every morning to wake me up. I love it. The difference (and I'm not trying to make you feel bad) is that this gesture is not a _replacement_ for hot, passionate love -- it is an _extension_ of it. H*ll, I even think the morning coffee ritual is sexy (not just "kind") because we are on the same sexual wavelength. Sometimes the morning coffee turns into "other" activities .

I think you want that same kind of passion and desire in your own life, and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH WANTING IT.

Can you get there with your husband? I think it is not likely. He has made it very clear how he feels.



TheCuriousWife said:


> Not sure what is going to go down. Most likely we will attend sex counseling, and not get anywhere. *Then hard decisions will have to be made.*


They are hard decisions. But they are easier when you look around at the fallout of some of us who DIDN'T make those decisions when we should have. I love my children to the end of the earth, but I also regret bringing them into a marriage that was destined for failure. And I regret spending decades with a man who could never meet my emotional and sexual needs (to me, sex IS emotion). In fairness, he would probably say I didn't meet his either.

I wish the very best for you


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You mentioned earlier about seeing a sex therapist - have you found one yet? I think that is a very good idea.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> You mentioned earlier about seeing a sex therapist - have you found one yet? I think that is a very good idea.


No. I don't even know where to start looking. Any tips?


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Right. You are correct.
> 
> But I do not believe I was harping on him. I never told him he was inadequate. I never pouted if he turned me down. I wasn't even initiating very often. If I don't get sex for a couple days I get quiet. I barely even notice I do it. But I guess he noticed and felt like I was trying to guilt trip him into having sex if it's been a few days. Which wasn't true. I was just having a natural reaction to being horny and feeling rejected. *What am I suppose to do? Be chipper and pretend like everything is alright?*
> I thought we were meeting in the middle. We agreed early on to compromise and have sex 2 or 3 times a week. But for the last several weeks that number had dropped to 1 time a week. I made one little comment. He said, "we haven't been having as many ED problems lately." To which I replied, "Yeah. Because we have only been having sex once a week."
> 
> *Then he blows up that I'm obsessed because I count the times in between sex, and that makes him feel pressured because he knows I'll be keeping track.* Etc.
> 
> Like I'm not suppose to notice if our sex declines. :scratchhead:
> 
> I don't think our 2-3 time a week compromise is going to work anymore. He told me that was too much, and that he doesn't enjoy it, it's a chore, and that he feels forced into it. He says he _will_ do it for a compromise. But I can't expect him to be passionate or enthusiastic about it.
> 
> I can't have sex knowing all that.


This is the exact advice given to every man who is in your situation. Initiate. If you are rejected. Smile and carry on about your day. Honestly, I don't blame you. I'm the same way. It's just hard to be all fun and laughs when you're sexually frustrated.


My wife and I had this issue just a week or so ago. She said we had sex 2 days ago, and I said actually it's 3. It became a whole thing about me "keeping track" and having a "schedule" and I "make sure she knows if we aren't meeting quota". No, I just remember when we did it last because she took a shower and put on her pretty panties while I went to Lowe's to pick up a clothes drier. Sheesh.

I'm not complaining. Statistically, I'm "never" rejected. But still, it kinda sucks to know that she takes it as a schedule, quota, or whatever.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Despite you guys thinking he is some kind of heartless monster, he just doesn't equate sex with love. He thinks it's similar to a fun hobby. I don't think he gets any emotional connection out of it. He told me he likes playing baseball but he wouldn't want to play it all the time.
> 
> We are on two different wave lengths. We will never understand each other. But because he doesn't like sex, does not mean he doesn't love me. His attitude and how he goes about it is wrong.


UGH, I got the same thing from STBX. To her sex was akin to make a special meal. Maybe it's because her love language was Acts of Service not Physical.

Now here is one thing I wonder about gender differences in these situations. After our first separation she seemed to have a "getting it" moment and turned not only frequency around but seemed to bring much more desire to it. Her issues with sex were much more mental than physical. I've wondered if most men in the LD slot can ever have a "getting it" moment and turn it around? In you're case it seems his issues are physical first and mental second. If he doesn't have enough hormones to even MB or enjoy BJs or any type of sex daily then he'll always be limited physically? Does Viagra even help in these cases?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> UGH, I got the same thing from STBX. To her sex was akin to make a special meal. Maybe it's because her love language was Acts of Service not Physical.
> 
> Now here is one thing I wonder about gender differences in these situations. After our first separation she seemed to have a "getting it" moment and turned not only frequency around but seemed to bring much more desire to it. Her issues with sex were much more mental than physical. I've wondered if most men in the LD slot can ever have a "getting it" moment and turn it around? In you're case it seems his issues are physical first and mental second. If he doesn't have enough hormones to even MB or enjoy BJs or any type of sex daily then he'll always be limited physically? Does Viagra even help in these cases?


Viagra can give you a physical erection. But it does not produce the desire to have one.

So therefore, it's not going to do any good for us. 

If my husband knew how much I masturbated, he would really think I was a sex addict.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> In you're case it seems his issues are physical first and mental second. If he doesn't have enough hormones to even MB or enjoy BJs or any type of sex daily then he'll always be limited physically? *Does Viagra even help in these cases?*


Good point, 4. CW, I would definitely have him try the Viagra. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> Viagra can give you a physical erection. But it does not produce the desire to have one.


You never know. I'm not a guy, but I would think that having a big boner would increase his need and desire to relieve it  In other words, the erection itself (not the Viagra) would fuel the desire. (Guys, feel free to chime in here for verification?) I would also think it would definitely improve his performance, thus building up his confidence. If he feels more confident, he may feel more passion and desire.

Positive + Positive = Positive


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ya, since LD doesn't compute in my world I've never needed to research Viagra or others. I wasn't sure if Viagra worked where hormones were absent or if it only helped if there were more mental blocks to sex.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My understanding is it makes it easier to get an erection but does nothing for drive. I THINK a man can take Viagra and not even get an erection IF he doesn't want sex. Does that make sense?


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> My understanding is it makes it easier to get an erection but does nothing for drive. I THINK a man can take Viagra and not even get an erection IF he doesn't want sex. *Does that make sense?*


It makes perfect sense.

Since I've never experienced an erection , I'm clueless. 

But it sounded like a good theory, anyway.

:lol:


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Viagra increases blood flow, so maybe it will help him with his ED issues. Might make him last longer too.


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No. I don't even know where to start looking. Any tips?


Have you two read any books about sex and relationships?

If not, would you be willing?

People can train their sexuality to be stronger. The human brain is amazingly adaptable . 

If he is motivated, he could become quite the Animal in bed.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If Viagra only works when desire is already present I don't see that helping their situation much. He's already demonstrated his lack of interest in wanting to be more sexual. It sounds like he'll need to get there mentally (counseling) before addressing the physical. So far it seems the doctors have only entrenched his mental blocks.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ConanHub said:


> Have you two read any books about sex and relationships?
> 
> If not, would you be willing?
> 
> People can train their sexuality to be stronger. The human brain is amazingly adaptable .
> 
> If he is motivated, he could become quite the Animal in bed.


Dozens.

Well, I've read dozens. He usually reads about 5 pages and then quits, saying that he gets it, have more sex. 

I'm a book worm, and a knowledge sponge. I'll read anything I can get my hands on. 

I just bought a new one "Passionista: the guide to pleasuring a man" for his birthday last week. I read most of it before all this went down, now I feel like throwing it away. 

I tried one of the techniques in the book last time we had sex. He looked at me like I had two heads. So I got embarrassed and frustrated and gave up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> My understanding is it makes it easier to get an erection but does nothing for drive. I THINK a man can take Viagra and not even get an erection IF he doesn't want sex. Does that make sense?


That is what the doctor said. You have to want to have sex and already start getting an erection for it to work.

Note: My husband doesn't even get an erection if we are in the shower together. So I have high doubts Viagra is going to do anything for us.


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think he needs to see you clearly. He needs to know how much you Mb. He needs to understand the state of his marriage. Anyone can up their game, they have to be motivated. Is he motivated to make it work?

High drive is not abnormal. Does he know that other people want sex everyday?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ConanHub said:


> I think he needs to see you clearly. He needs to know how much you Mb. He needs to understand the state of his marriage. Anyone can up their game, they have to be motivated. Is he motivated to make it work?
> 
> High drive is not abnormal. Does he know that other people want sex everyday?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No he is not motivated. He has decided he can't change, and I just need to accept and get over it. (Probably do)

He doesn't care if other people want sex, he doesn't. 

Honestly, I'm not sure at this point is the damage is repairable. Even if I start getting mind blowing sex, and he never complains again. (Which I don't think he is up to) In the back of my head I'm always going to be wondering if he is faking it, if he hates every minute of it. I'm never going to feel sexy and confident around him. 

How can a person get past that?


----------



## ConanHub

TheCuriousWife said:


> That is what the doctor said. You have to want to have sex and already start getting an erection for it to work.
> 
> Note: My husband doesn't even get an erection if we are in the shower together. So I have high doubts Viagra is going to do anything for us.


I can't comprehend this. Mrs. Conan has never made it out of a shared shower without getting herself impaled. I haven't read your whole thread but is he healthy? Medical condition or psychological?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ConanHub said:


> I can't comprehend this. Mrs. Conan has never made it out of a shared shower without getting herself impaled. I haven't read your whole thread but is he healthy? Medical condition or psychological?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He works out daily. He is fit and trim. He doesn't smoke or drink. He gets enough sleep. Doesn't have a stressful job or environment. He eats healthy.

According to the doctor since he isn't your typical overweight smoker, he can't possibly have a medical condition.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> According to the doctor since he isn't your typical overweight smoker, he can't possibly have a medical condition.


I am starting to agree with the doctor . I don't think he necessarily has a medical "condition." I just think it's the way he's wired.

Is it normal? Well when you consider there is a sex-drive bell curve with a very wide range of normal (you're on one end, he's on the other) then I suppose he is "normal."

It's just not what you want, and not even close to your normal.


----------



## ConanHub

TheCuriousWife said:


> He works out daily. He is fit and trim. He doesn't smoke or drink. He gets enough sleep. Doesn't have a stressful job or environment. He eats healthy.
> 
> According to the doctor since he isn't your typical overweight smoker, he can't possibly have a medical condition.


If he doesn't even have a typical male response to a wet, naked female brushing up against him, his wife no less, I seriously question his state of mind if nothing else. That is not normal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't think our 2-3 time a week compromise is going to work anymore. He told me that was too much, and that he doesn't enjoy it, it's a chore, and that he feels forced into it. He says he _will_ do it for a compromise. But I can't expect him to be passionate or enthusiastic about it.
> 
> I can't have sex knowing all that.


I don't think it will work either. At 29 years old, if he thinks having sex 3 times a week is too much, then he will never be into it long term. Frankly, I don't get why 3 times/wk is that much of a bother. 

Sex is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun for him, then you need to figure out if 1 time/wk - or likely less - is good enough. Just a guess, but you seem to be going thru what a bunch of other people went thru who are now living a sexless marriage. You already show the hallmark of one who is losing interest in a spouse because of a fear of resentment over sex. IMHO, it will only get worse, and then you'll find yourself at 32 years old and wondering how you ended up having sex only 1 - 2 times per month.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ConanHub said:


> If he doesn't even have a typical male response to a wet, naked female brushing up against him, his wife no less, I seriously question his state of mind if nothing else. That is not normal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True. At soon to be 41 years old, I still crave daily sex and would love 2/day if my wife was willing. If I recall, his T levels are higher than mine too. I don't think T has anything to do with this. It's just who he is, and there's no changing that.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Despite you guys thinking he is some kind of heartless monster, he just doesn't equate sex with love.


The problem isn't that he has bad intentions, it's that he doesn't care about how his actions affect you. 

He may not* intend* to hurt you, but he does and doesn't seem to care. To me, that's a heartless monster.

If he was making an effort to please you and failed despite that, I'd have an entirely different opinion of him. But, he doesn't even try.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He is considerably younger than 29, BTW.

He says he is making an effort. He _will_ have sex with me. BUT, he can't fake desire and enthusiasm. So he will lay there and fall asleep during, or we will have sex without him making a sound.

Or when I ask he will reply."Ugh. I guess we can."

So, will he have sex with me 2 or 3 times a week if I pressure him. Yes. Therefore he thinks he is upholding his end of the compromise. He does not grasp the fact that it makes me feel like a horrible human being to basically have to beg my husband to touch me. (Or let me touch him)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He is mad and thinks nothing he does is good enough. He says he can't win. Because I'm upset if he rejects me. And I'm upset if he agrees but acts like it's such a bother. He says he can't change the fact that he doesn't want to do it, so I should just take his pity sex, and be satisfied that he's willing to do that even when he doesn't want to.

Yeah. Good times.


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sad. He sounds like a pretty good guy mostly but he needs to train up his libido to satisfy his partner. It is a very important issue for the lower drive spouse to learn to please the higher drive spouse. 

I have had to learn Mrs. Conan's love languages and she has had to learn mine.

Sex was not as high on her list as mine, I am crazy though, and quality time with conversation was not high on my list.

We both got better in each others languages and have been having a pretty good marriage as a result.

I still Mb but she has upped her libido to almost once every day. &#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;

I can go several times a day, even serious several times an hour so I have had to have some understanding.

Once a day is still an awesome compromise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hope4family

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is considerably younger than 29, BTW.
> 
> He says he is making an effort. He _will_ have sex with me. BUT, he can't fake desire and enthusiasm. So he will lay there and fall asleep during, or we will have sex without him making a sound.
> 
> Or when I ask he will reply."Ugh. I guess we can."
> 
> So, will he have sex with me 2 or 3 times a week if I pressure him. Yes. Therefore he thinks he is upholding his end of the compromise. He does not grasp the fact that it makes me feel like a horrible human being to basically have to beg my husband to touch me. (Or let me touch him)


Curious wife, if this were a man describing a woman. What advice would you give the man?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

OMG Curious, what a terrible thing to say to you!! I wouldn't want to have sex with my husband either if I felt like I was a burden to him. Your husband is definitely cut from a different mold than most young men his age. I wish I had an answer for you...........


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He definitely doesn't fit the picture of a typical male (especially not one under 25) but this is who he is. Neither of you will be truly happy as it relates to sex. Too much for him and too little for you. The story of many marriages. Some can learn to live with that and some can't. The question is, can you be happy if everything else is great and sex isn't?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Call the mental health number on the back of your insurance card. There should be an 800# for claims and a second 800# for mental health benefits.

The people who answer that phone are trained in emergency screening and that's what they'll do first. Then they try to match you with the right help for you. Ask for a PhD level therapist who specializes in MC and sexual problems. The screener will not ask for details, or they shouldn't! They will give you a list of providers in your area. Get at least 10 names, preferably 15. Be prepared to call all of them with a succinct message. You will be leaving messages everywhere. Make notes on who you called and at what time. Refer back to your list when they call back so you can see who is good about returning calls and who blows you off. Half will blow you off because they no longer accept new patients, no longer participate in that health plan, or no longer have office hours and now work only inpatient.

Finding the right therapist if very trying, emotionally. It could take a full week of phone calls before you have an appointment set up. Be prepared to travel to find a good therapist, depending on where you live.

Your message should include you name and return number and a good time to reach you, after working hours. Your need for an appointment with a therapist who can help your marriage and the sexual issues involved. Restate your insurance to be certain they still accept it.

If you don't hear back from a therapist within 2 days, cross them off your list, no matter what.

When you are able to speak with a therapist, if they can't see you, ask them if the can recommend someone. Then call your insurance company to see if that person is in your network.

I'm sure your H is a lovely man. But he is also a selfish man. Odds are, even with excellent therapy, he will never change.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's scary to think what he will be like as he gets older and if there are children in the picture. 

Hopefully, you can find a good sex therapist and she can help the two of you come up with a good compromise that can make the both of you happy, if you want to stay in the marriage that is. I'd at least give it a shot, what do you have to lose?


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> It's scary to think what he will be like as he gets older and if there are children in the picture.
> 
> Hopefully, you can find a good sex therapist and she can help the two of you come up with a good compromise that can make the both of you happy, if you want to stay in the marriage that is. I'd at least give it a shot, what do you have to lose?


I was going to comment on this before your post. Even if she can get past the desire issue, she's already had a preview into his parenting and future marriage life plans and I don't think they were very appealing to her either. There would need to be a lot of change/compromise on many issues.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> It's scary to think what he will be like as he gets older and if there are children in the picture.
> 
> Hopefully, you can find a good sex therapist and she can help the two of you come up with a good compromise that can make the both of you happy, if you want to stay in the marriage that is. I'd at least give it a shot, what do you have to lose?


FWIW, my ex and I did IC, MC, and sex therapy. Sadly, it really didn't effect much change or improvement. And I stayed on a merry-go-round of therapy for years, trying to "fix" it.  We would come home to do the "homework" assigned by the sex therapist, and it all felt stilted, unnatural, and very unsatisfying. Not to mention ex was embarrassed, joking about it, and extremely sarcastic afterwards. It was a "let's get this homework over with" experience . I suspect CW's husband will feel the same way.

I think sex therapy is immensely helpful for couples who were once on the same page, but for whatever reason have fallen into a slump and are trying to get the spark back. I don't think it can perform miracles for couples who aren't even reading from the same book!

Of course everyone has a different experience, and I agree CW should give it a shot if she wants to.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ConanHub said:


> Sad. He sounds like a pretty good guy mostly but he needs to train up his libido to satisfy his partner. It is a very important issue for the lower drive spouse to learn to please the higher drive spouse.
> 
> I have had to learn Mrs. Conan's love languages and she has had to learn mine.
> 
> Sex was not as high on her list as mine, I am crazy though, and quality time with conversation was not high on my list.
> 
> We both got better in each others languages and have been having a pretty good marriage as a result.
> 
> I still Mb but she has upped her libido to almost once every day. ������
> 
> I can go several times a day, even serious several times an hour so I have had to have some understanding.
> 
> Once a day is still an awesome compromise.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe most couples who have a solid marriage come up with a reasonable compromise. Ours is 3-4 times per week with a rare 5 times. I would live 2-3 times a day but would be quite happy at 1/day. The wife would prefer 1-2 times in a week. 

IMHO, if you are open to doing it I believe libido can adjust naturally simply through building a repetition. We basically have scheduled sex. Sure it's not as spontaneous, but I think if you get into a routine the LD spouse can build a libido over time. My wife wouldn't admit it, but I believe that if we would drop our frequency she would become antsy. Once you learn a behavior it becomes ingrained into you and deviating from tradition will cause a degree of uneasiness.


----------



## ConanHub

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I believe most couples who have a solid marriage come up with a reasonable compromise. Ours is 3-4 times per week with a rare 5 times. I would live 2-3 times a day but would be quite happy at 1/day. The wife would prefer 1-2 times in a week.
> 
> IMHO, if you are open to doing it I believe libido can adjust naturally simply through building a repetition. We basically have scheduled sex. Sure it's not as spontaneous, but I think if you get into a routine the LD spouse can build a libido over time. My wife wouldn't admit it, but I believe that if we would drop our frequency she would become antsy. Once you learn a behavior it becomes ingrained into you and deviating from tradition will cause a degree of uneasiness.


Absolutely agree. I was under the weather yesterday and Mrs. Conan was doing everything from dancing to sticking her face in my crotch! I wasn't up for it but she was sure itchy! Big difference from 2 years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He works out daily. He is fit and trim. He doesn't smoke or drink. He gets enough sleep. Doesn't have a stressful job or environment. He eats healthy.
> 
> According to the doctor since he isn't your typical overweight smoker, he can't possibly have a medical condition.


That is utterly ridiculous. If that is what this "doctor" said, he is grossly incompetent. Did you read what I said about pituitary tumors? That is merely ONE possible example of an underlying medical condition (and a very serious one), which could be causing the low T and clinical symptoms your husband has. There are other medical conditions as well which need to be ruled out. Your husband may have a ticking time bomb within him, medically speaking. *Someone should be investigating WHY this guy in his early twenties has a Testosterone level of an EIGHTY year old man (as per his lab results).* No competent doctor would consider that normal and healthy. No competent doctor would just send him on his way without ordering a thorough medical investigation that rules out all possible medical causes of Low T in a very young adult male. Seriously, your husband may have much bigger problems than any of you realize. His low T and corresponding clinical symptoms are a huge red flag. Hormone levels that are _grossly_ out of whack (and if it is true that his levels are normal for an 80 year old, I'd say that word applies here) are almost ALWAYS indicative of a medical condition which needs to be investigated, diagnosed and treated. Its the bodies way of throwing out early clues that something is wrong. To ignore these clues is negligent. Right now your husband is lucky that otherwise he appears healthy. That DOES NOT mean there is not an underlying medical problem, and it may only be a matter of time before more symptoms, potentially quite debilitating, begin manifesting._ By no means am I saying he should be put on hormone replacement therapy at this stage. What I am saying is track down the underlying cause of this. Once you do that and address a possible underlying medical condition, the T level could correct itself with no Testosterone therapy required. But most importantly, whatever is causing his T to be out of whack could soon be causing much more serious and debilitating problems if left to progress. 

"According to the doctor since he isn't your typical overweight smoker, he can't possibly have a medical condition"_

For this doctor to say this is absurd. An overweight smoker has obvious reasons for having low T. Being overweight and smoking is known to lower T levels. If your husband is fit and works out, *all the more reason* to be very suspicious and concerned about his low T levels for heaven's sake! You should be following up in this with your doctor-friend. Hopefully she has enough general knowledge to recognize that this warrants further medical investigation. If not, perhaps she should Google it.

When I first started exhibiting hormonal imbalance symptoms I was in my teens, filled with energy, the life of every party, super-fit and the picture of good health. Literally. I was a model appearing in flyers and catalogues for national retailers as well as doing local runway work. No one would have guessed (certainly the doctors didn't) that I had a tumor growing on my pituitary gland (classified as a brain tumor) which would have me bedridden for long periods of time by the time I hit my mid 30s and would ultimately come close to killing me. 

Young men with pituitary tumors often exhibit the symptoms and low T levels your husband has.

Have. It. Investigated.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is considerably younger than 29, BTW.
> 
> He says he is making an effort. He _will_ have sex with me. BUT, he can't fake desire and enthusiasm. So he will lay there and fall asleep during, or we will have sex without him making a sound.
> 
> Or when I ask he will reply."Ugh. I guess we can."
> 
> So, will he have sex with me 2 or 3 times a week if I pressure him. Yes. Therefore he thinks he is upholding his end of the compromise. He does not grasp the fact that it makes me feel like a horrible human being to basically have to beg my husband to touch me. (Or let me touch him)


Just want to express my sympathy. Being in love, and not feeling the enthusiasm and passion is so sad. I am so sorry. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is mad and thinks nothing he does is good enough. He says he can't win. Because I'm upset if he rejects me. And I'm upset if he agrees but acts like it's such a bother. He says he can't change the fact that he doesn't want to do it, so I should just take his pity sex, and be satisfied that he's willing to do that even when he doesn't want to.
> 
> Yeah. Good times.


Pity sex is no good either, might as well not have any sex. Falling asleep sex is really bad too (especially if it is more than once).

Just want to say I am so sorry.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Most folks who go through life truly miserable - had the misfortune of falling in love with someone they are fundamentally incompatible with. 

The WORST flavor of this is - someone who loves you back but not the way you need. *Because those situations include enough positive interaction to fill you with the single most poisonous substance in the known universe - FALSE HOPE.* 

You keep hoping to find a work around for a massive core incompatibility. There is no work around. He is just as determinedly non-sexual, as you are sexual. 

That is a hard wired trait. He can no more flip his on switch, than you can flip your off switch. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> He is mad and thinks nothing he does is good enough. He says he can't win. Because I'm upset if he rejects me. And I'm upset if he agrees but acts like it's such a bother. He says he can't change the fact that he doesn't want to do it, so I should just take his pity sex, and be satisfied that he's willing to do that even when he doesn't want to.
> 
> Yeah. Good times.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

JustFabulous I read your post. But my husband won't be going back to the doctor. I'm already being accused of trying to make up issues, and that I was hoping something was wrong with him. I'm not going to keep pursuing this.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> I believe most couples who have a solid marriage come up with a reasonable compromise. Ours is 3-4 times per week with a rare 5 times. I would live 2-3 times a day but would be quite happy at 1/day. The wife would prefer 1-2 times in a week.
> 
> IMHO, if you are open to doing it I believe libido can adjust naturally simply through building a repetition. We basically have scheduled sex. Sure it's not as spontaneous, but I think if you get into a routine the LD spouse can build a libido over time. My wife wouldn't admit it, but I believe that if we would drop our frequency she would become antsy. Once you learn a behavior it becomes ingrained into you and deviating from tradition will cause a degree of uneasiness.


Right. But we have been compromising at 2-3 times a week now for over 2 years, and things aren't getting any better.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Call the mental health number on the back of your insurance card. There should be an 800# for claims and a second 800# for mental health benefits.
> 
> The people who answer that phone are trained in emergency screening and that's what they'll do first. Then they try to match you with the right help for you. Ask for a PhD level therapist who specializes in MC and sexual problems. The screener will not ask for details, or they shouldn't! They will give you a list of providers in your area. Get at least 10 names, preferably 15. Be prepared to call all of them with a succinct message. You will be leaving messages everywhere. Make notes on who you called and at what time. Refer back to your list when they call back so you can see who is good about returning calls and who blows you off. Half will blow you off because they no longer accept new patients, no longer participate in that health plan, or no longer have office hours and now work only inpatient.
> 
> Finding the right therapist if very trying, emotionally. It could take a full week of phone calls before you have an appointment set up. Be prepared to travel to find a good therapist, depending on where you live.
> 
> Your message should include you name and return number and a good time to reach you, after working hours. Your need for an appointment with a therapist who can help your marriage and the sexual issues involved. Restate your insurance to be certain they still accept it.
> 
> If you don't hear back from a therapist within 2 days, cross them off your list, no matter what.
> 
> When you are able to speak with a therapist, if they can't see you, ask them if the can recommend someone. Then call your insurance company to see if that person is in your network.
> 
> I'm sure your H is a lovely man. But he is also a selfish man. Odds are, even with excellent therapy, he will never change.


Ugh. I just don't even feel up to it. 

Husband and I are on two different insurances. How does that work?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Ugh. I just don't even feel up to it.
> 
> Husband and I are on two different insurances. How does that work?


Your insurance covers you. Generally, marriage counseling is a covered expense as part of regular counseling. Which means your sessions would be covered and you H joining you would fall under your sessions.

The process is not as bad as it sounds. Take two steps today. Call your mental health insurance number and get a list of providers. Just two things for today.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well we had round two last night. At least there were no tears.

He did his usual "you can go shower if you want..." I told him I did not feel like having sex. He replies, "you always want sex." I told him that I felt like never having sex with him again.

He got upset, and his exact words were: "Having no sex isn't going to help anything. We just need to get you over your irrational fear of being rejected." 

Really. That's our problem? I think not. Being rejected is low on the list. I told him it's not one thing. It's everyday, feeling undesired. I can walk around naked and he wouldn't even look up. I can get in the shower and he will turn away from me. It doesn't matter what I wear, what I do, I feel like I am completely unarousing to him. I want my husband to get excited at the thought of having sex with me, not dread it. 

He says I do arouse him, I am exciting, he just sometimes doesn't want to have sex. I told him he shows it pretty poorly.

Then we discussed our boring sex. And he said I'm to blame too, which I will own. We are both inexperienced, and aren't very creative. I am constantly reminding him to stop biting, or sucking. He is rough and it hurts, it's not a turn on, and will leave giant visible hickeys. No matter how many times I've told him I don't like it, he still does it over and over. Then I sound like a nag, and he will pout and just sit there and do nothing. 

He says I just lay there, and am boring. Which sometimes I do. But my hands are always on him. So I'm not like dead fish. I feel stupid trying things when he offers no feedback, doesn't tell me if he likes it or hates it, and just looks at me strangely. I would do anything he asked me to. But I will admit, I would like a dominate bed partner. I prefer to be told. 

We hadn't kissed for several weeks because I had a fever blister. It was gone 5 days ago... We finally had not much more than a peck last night. And he wonders why I say I don't every get any intimacy outside of the bedroom. 

Arg. I'm just so frustrated. He is wanting me to have sex. He knows I will be in a better mood afterwards, and I think he believes that it will magically fix all our problems, and I will stop being upset. Remember he thinks my entire issue is that I want more sex. I can not get him to understand that I don't care about more sex. I just want a husband who shows a little bit of interest in me!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I can't even tell you what sex positions he likes or doesn't. I couldn't tell you what he likes me to do or not do. He never give me any answers, even when I prod him. I feel sexually helpless and lost. How am I suppose to get better?

When I ask him what he wants he says, "he doesn't know."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Your insurance covers you. Generally, marriage counseling is a covered expense as part of regular counseling. Which means your sessions would be covered and you H joining you would fall under your sessions.
> 
> The process is not as bad as it sounds. Take two steps today. Call your mental health insurance number and get a list of providers. Just two things for today.


I'd prefer to do it on his insurance. Mine is with my parents, and I'd prefer for them not to get a bill for my sex counseling. 

I suppose it will work the same way then. As long as we go to providers in his network, I will be covered?


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's definitely worth a try (sex counciling) as you are trying to salvage your marriage and hit a dead end with the dr. Another direction may get you to a better place. And if not, then at least you've tried.

I still say that a better dr. would have ended better, but I understand why you are putting on the shelf for now. However it may be worth another try in the future.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well we had round two last night. At least there were no tears.
> 
> He did his usual "you can go shower if you want..." I told him I did not feel like having sex. He replies, "you always want sex." I told him that I felt like never having sex with him again.


 :smthumbup: Keep doing that, don't accept a passive aggressive initiation like that.



> He got upset, and his exact words were: "Having no sex isn't going to help anything. We just need to get you over your irrational fear of being rejected."


Wow, what an ass. I think I would have gone ballistic if I heard that.



> Really. That's our problem? I think not. Being rejected is low on the list. I told him it's not one thing. It's everyday, feeling undesired. I can walk around naked and he wouldn't even look up. I can get in the shower and he will turn away from me. It doesn't matter what I wear, what I do, I feel like I am completely unarousing to him. I want my husband to get excited at the thought of having sex with me, not dread it.


Good for you, keep letting him know it's about desire. I can't remember after all this time if you ever tried or got him to do the 5 Love Languages? He needs to get it that yours is physical and understand how to show it.



> Then we discussed our boring sex. And he said I'm to blame too, which I will own. We are both inexperienced, and aren't very creative. I am constantly reminding him to stop biting, or sucking. He is rough and it hurts, it's not a turn on, and will leave giant visible hickeys. No matter how many times I've told him I don't like it, he still does it over and over. Then I sound like a nag, and he will pout and just sit there and do nothing.
> 
> He says I just lay there, and am boring. Which sometimes I do. But my hands are always on him. So I'm not like dead fish. I feel stupid trying things when he offers no feedback, doesn't tell me if he likes it or hates it, and just looks at me strangely. I would do anything he asked me to. But I will admit, I would like a dominate bed partner. I prefer to be told.


I'd rather have 1 position forever with a partner that wants and enjoys sex with me over gymnastics with an uninterested partner. The mechanics come second to desire.



> Arg. I'm just so frustrated. He is wanting me to have sex. He knows I will be in a better mood afterwards, and I think he believes that it will magically fix all our problems, and I will stop being upset. Remember he thinks my entire issue is that I want more sex. I can not get him to understand that I don't care about more sex. I just want a husband who shows a little bit of interest in me!


Some people just need a 2x4 to get it. Keep at it. Don't take any passive aggressive BS from him. Keep pushing that you need to see/feel desire physically in and out of the bedroom because that is how you feel loved. Deemphasize the sex, emphasize the desire.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> :smthumbup: Keep doing that, don't accept a passive aggressive initiation like that.
> 
> Wow, what an ass. I think I would have gone ballistic if I heard that.
> 
> Good for you, keep letting him know it's about desire. I can't remember after all this time if you ever tried or got him to do the 5 Love Languages? He needs to get it that yours is physical and understand how to show it.
> 
> I'd rather have 1 position forever with a partner that wants and enjoys sex with me over gymnastics with an uninterested partner. The mechanics come second to desire.
> 
> Some people just need a 2x4 to get it. Keep at it. Don't take any passive aggressive BS from him. Keep pushing that you need to see/feel desire physically in and out of the bedroom because that is how you feel loved. Deemphasize the sex, emphasize the desire.


I have the 5 love languages book. I read it, he did not. "I get it, your love language is sex." That is what he told me. I'll keep pressuring him to read it. 

Right! I don't care if sex was exactly the same every time if he just looked like he was enjoying himself. 

I'll keep trying to push the desire, but I don't think he gets it.

I'll keep pushing desire.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'd prefer to do it on his insurance. Mine is with my parents, and I'd prefer for them not to get a bill for my sex counseling.
> 
> I suppose it will work the same way then. As long as we go to providers in his network, I will be covered?


HIPPA law forbids insurance from sending your parents a bill or even an EOB unless you specifically designate them as contacts for your coverage. 

You can't initiate therapy if you are not insured by that company, only your H can.

When you call the 800 # ask them who might get a bill or EOB for this covered expense. You are an adult and for each expense you must designate who the insured person is (father or mother) AND who is ultimately responsible for this bill (you.)

Aside from all that, your EOB will only designate mental health services, not therapy and not sex therapy. By some chance your parents discover that you are getting mental health coverage, you simply explain it is marital issues that you are uncomfortable discussing with them right now.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I can't even tell you what sex positions he likes or doesn't. I couldn't tell you what he likes me to do or not do. He never give me any answers, even when I prod him. I feel sexually helpless and lost. How am I suppose to get better?
> 
> When I ask him what he wants he says, "he doesn't know."


:rofl:
I can tel, you.

His fav is laying flat on his back having his d!ck sucked. He particularly likes you tending to his needs and really hates putting effort into your needs.

Curious, a young normal young man just experiencing sex with a woman he loves who also loves sex would be ALL OVER figuring out every possible variation he could, over joyed with discovering ways to make one another feel the intensity of pleasure that great sex brings.

Your man ain't normal. And never will be.

ETA: good job on turning him down little lion!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I went in for a physical last year, and never received any bills or anything. I'm assuming my parents got it. 

I guess I'll have to just call the number.

Or have husband work it out with his insurance. 

I did get his appointments for his doctors no problem. Maybe therapy wouldn't be any different?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, it is you who needs clarity. Your husband has clarity because he is very clear on his position; you are the problem.

You are only the problem because what you need from a husband is not what your husband can give. He can not more talk you out of needing that than you can talk him into giving that.

You need clarity and strength and that's what therapy is for.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I went in for a physical last year, and never received any bills or anything. I'm assuming my parents got it.
> 
> I guess I'll have to just call the number.
> 
> Or have husband work it out with his insurance.
> 
> I did get his appointments for his doctors no problem. Maybe therapy wouldn't be any different?


Preventive medical care(physicals, etc.) are all "free", in that you don't have to pay anything(insurance pays for all of it). 

I do believe mental health is covered by insurance, so long as your deductible is taken care of. It should only mention 'mental health' and not have anything written about the specifics of what you are going for(sex therapy). Since you are under your parents, they can easily see the EOB online, but again it shouldn't say any details. When you fill out any paper work at the office, make sure to put your address, so any bills or paperwork is sent to you and not your parents. I'm also under my parents insurance until later this year(turn 26 coming up and will lose that coverage). 

You can call under his health insurance card to see which therapists are covered and then see which also are covered by your insurance as well. It does make things a little more complicated, but it can still work out. His insurance only covers him, so you'll have to cross reference both insurances.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well it turns out, in order for insurance to pay for your sex counseling, they have to diagnosis you with some sort of behavioral mental illness. Which stays on our permanent record. Also, in my state that prevents me from owning firearms... No thanks.

So it looks like paying out of pocket will cost us about $110 a session. Ouch. I found a good looking counselor. I'll have to call and ask more.

It's going to be hard to swing $110, especially if you are suppose to go once a week.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If you are paying out of pocket, they typically do it on a sliding scale based on income. Hope you find one that works.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> If you are paying out of pocket, they typically do it on a sliding scale based on income. Hope you find one that works.


The ones I have found, do not. 

But oh well. Divorce would cost a lot more.

I've tracked down 2 good looking leads. Oh course I'm out in the sticks so we are going to have to drive an hour and a half away. 

I will call and ask questions. How do I pick the better one? What questions should I ask them? I'm lost.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well it turns out, in order for insurance to pay for your *sex counseling*, they have to diagnosis you with some sort of behavioral mental illness. Which stays on our permanent record. Also, in my state that prevents me from owning firearms... No thanks.
> 
> So it looks like paying out of pocket will cost us about $110 a session. Ouch. I found a good looking counselor. I'll have to call and ask more.
> 
> It's going to be hard to swing $110, especially if you are suppose to go once a week.


How does one get diagnosed? They go to therapy, are then sent to a psychiatrist for formal psych eval, prescribed meds and sent back to therapy.

*Wanting help with your marriage and the sexual conflict is not a diagnosis and is covered under "marriage and relationship" therapy.* 

You don't need sex therapy.

Please call them back and ask for therapists for relationship difficulties. The screeners are not diagnosticians and should have explained it better to you. Ask them if you have any EAP sessions. Most insurance plans offer between 3-6 FREE mental health counseling sessions in order to streamline the process of tailored therapy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

No. That is what all the sex counseling places said. Not my insurance.

Of course I will look into it further.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The ones I have found, do not.
> 
> But oh well. Divorce would cost a lot more.
> 
> I've tracked down 2 good looking leads. Oh course I'm out in the sticks so we are going to have to drive an hour and a half away.
> 
> I will call and ask questions. How do I pick the better one? What questions should I ask them? I'm lost.



Exactly, divorce will cost a lot more!

1. What are your evening and weekend hours? 
2. Do you recommend a couple come in together or the partner most dissatisfied come in first?
3. What do you recommend if my husband is not supportive of us attending marriage counseling together.
4. In your experience, how do couples best work through problems involving mismatched sex drives?
5. How often, in your direct experience, have you discovered that a mismatched sex drive cannot be worked through?

You may ask only 1 question or you may ask all of them. in my experience, within a few questions you get a feel for how well you might work with them.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No. That is what all the sex counseling places said. Not my insurance.
> 
> Of course I will look into it further.


umm YIKES!

Just look into relationship therapy. if either you or your H need specifically tailored sex therapy, that can be arranged at a later date.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

You can't make him desire you. 

Given the result of the doctors visit - the answer is totally clear. 

He does love you - he does not and NEVER will desire you. 

YOU need IC, because you are stuck deep in the denial phase, grieving the death of your marriage. 

Your marriage is dying - you may choose to remain in it - however it will still be dead. And you will be - a living person inside a dead relationship. 

But the whole marriage lives or dies thing. A counselor cannot help with that - they can ONLY help with whether you choose to stay or leave. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> The ones I have found, do not.
> 
> But oh well. Divorce would cost a lot more.
> 
> I've tracked down 2 good looking leads. Oh course I'm out in the sticks so we are going to have to drive an hour and a half away.
> 
> I will call and ask questions. How do I pick the better one? What questions should I ask them? I'm lost.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> umm YIKES!
> 
> Just look into relationship therapy. if either you or your H need specifically tailored sex therapy, that can be arranged at a later date.


That includes marriage therapy.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That includes marriage therapy.



Not understanding what you mean here.


Reread MEM's post.



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> You can't make him desire you.
> 
> Given the result of the doctors visit - the answer is totally clear.
> 
> He does love you - he does not and NEVER will desire you.
> 
> *YOU need IC, because you are stuck deep in the denial phase, grieving the death of your marriage.
> 
> Your marriage is dying - you may choose to remain in it - however it will still be dead. And you will be - a living person inside a dead relationship. *
> 
> But the whole marriage lives or dies thing. A counselor cannot help with that - they can ONLY help with whether you choose to stay or leave.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> You can't make him desire you.


Absolutely true, you can never make someone to something they don't want to do.



> Given the result of the doctors visit - the answer is totally clear.
> 
> He does love you - he does not and NEVER will desire you.


I'm not 100% sold on this honestly. I would have agreed with you until I went through my 1st separation. It took the threat of divorce for her to "get it" and turn around the libido issue 180 degrees. Does that mean she'd ever be exactly like me in the desire department, no, but she did find a genuine desire to please me which turned into physical desire. She just needed to be beat over the head with the threat of divorce to get through to her the seriousness of the situation. In the end it didn't save the marriage because that wasn't the only problem, but I could have never imagined she would turn around the physical part of the issue like she did.



> YOU need IC, because you are stuck deep in the denial phase, grieving the death of your marriage.
> 
> Your marriage is dying - you may choose to remain in it - however it will still be dead. And you will be - a living person inside a dead relationship.
> 
> But the whole marriage lives or dies thing. A counselor cannot help with that - they can ONLY help with whether you choose to stay or leave.


I don't disagree she might need some counseling to figure things out for herself and between them, but I'm not entirely hopeless on the desire issue at least. However, that is only one of potentially several deal breakers to sort through between them. How many hurdles can they cross to get to a workable marriage? There may be too many, as was my case.

I'm not trying to give her false hope, just relaying my experience in a similar situation.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I may get IC on the side. But my husband is going to sex therapy to figure out what the heck is going on inside his head.

Even if we get divorced, he needs to sort that mess out.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I may get IC on the side. But my husband is going to sex therapy to figure out what the heck is going on inside his head.
> 
> Even if we get divorced, he needs to sort that mess out.


Still fixated on fixing him. 

He will only be fixed when:

1: he actually sees the dynamic as a problem.

2: he wants to do something about it.

Until then you are pushing a rope, TCW.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



farsidejunky said:


> Still fixated on fixing him.
> 
> He will only be fixed when:
> 
> 1: he actually sees the dynamic as a problem.
> 
> 2: he wants to do something about it.
> 
> Until then you are pushing a rope, TCW.


I agree. 

But we are having sexual problems, so we will be going to a sex therapist. For both of us.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

TCW, you have strangers on the internet, with no vested interest in your outcome, telling you that your drive is normal. 

Who will you have validate it when the sex therapist also tells you that you are normal?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He needs to hear it, not me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I tried to call the 2 best looking counselors. Neither answered, so I sent them an email. We'll see what happens.

Husband has already agreed to go. Although he has made it clear he isn't happy about it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I tried to call the 2 best looking counselors. Neither answered, so I sent them an email. We'll see what happens.
> 
> Husband has already agreed to go. Although he has made it clear he isn't happy about it.


He'll get over it...........


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> He'll get over it...........


Yes he certainly will.

I don't feel sorry about it.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> :rofl:
> Curious, a young normal young man just experiencing sex with a woman he loves who also loves sex would be ALL OVER figuring out every possible variation he could, over joyed with discovering ways to make one another feel the intensity of pleasure that great sex brings. Your man ain't normal. And never will be.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> JustFabulous I read your post. But my husband won't be going back to the doctor. I'm already being accused of trying to make up issues, and that I was hoping something was wrong with him. I'm not going to keep pursuing this.


I fully understand your position on that, and I don't blame you one bit under the circumstances. You've got an uncooperative husband AND an uncooperative doctor. That being so, realistically, trying to pursue the medical issue, as valid as it may be, would be nearly an impossible battle. Your hands are pretty much tied. I just wanted to ensure that you are armed as much info as possible about all potential issues at play here so that you can make well informed decisions going forward.

Again, as I said before, you can not help someone who doesn't want to be helped. Even if he has something medically wrong with him, that is not your responsibility to solve if he is so unconcerned about all of this. Your husband is perfectly happy with how he is -- strange as that may be for a guy in his early 20s:scratchhead: He's too selfish and immature to have any genuine concern for how this affects his wife and his marriage. One day, he will inevitably pay the price for his ignorance and selfishness, potentially in more ways than one. But he will have made his own bed.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree.

I'll give counseling a go, but my patience and motivation is wearing thin. I've given him a lot of chances, and done just about everything in my power. He's going to have to step up to the plate quickly, because this train is about to leave the station.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Also. After our recent discussions/fights, I think he is starting to finally believe that I may not be willing to stick it out to the end with him no matter what.

I've tried to tell him that before, but I don't think he ever believed that I would actually leave him. 

Maybe this wake up call it what he needs to either crap or get off the pot.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I agree.
> 
> I'll give counseling a go, but my patience and motivation is wearing thin. I've given him a lot of chances, and done just about everything in my power. He's going to have to step up to the plate quickly, because this train is about to leave the station.


I think I see what you're doing here. By insisting on therapy, you can walk away telling yourself you've done everything you could to make it work.

Honey, it's not alway so cut and dried as that. 

Just know this...you cannot hope for long term happiness when you have to fight tooth and nail for minimal effort.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good for you Curious! It isn't like you are asking him for a kidney. I know his sex drive is what it is; however, he can at least try to work on his issues and put forth a bit of effort and get over his selfishness and learn how to please a woman when you do have sex. Maybe if the sex life you have was more fulfilling, you would be satisfied with less. 

I know you said that your husband doesn't watch porn, but have the two of you ever watched it together? Maybe he could get some pointers from watching it??? LOL!


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Right! I don't care if sex was exactly the same every time if he just looked like he was enjoying himself. I'll keep trying to push the desire, but I don't think he gets it.
> 
> I'll keep pushing desire.


I don't think that will ever work. He'll just come to resent you more for being demanding (his perspective), and not accepting him _as he is._

You can't push someone to show or feel desire for you. They either have it/ feel it, or they don't. Its part of the "chemistry" between two people that's been discussed before.

If you push him on the desire issue, the most you will get is pretending at best. That's not going to cut it. You don't want that. What makes desire from the person you're with so exciting and important, is its very rawness and genuineness. Knowing how desperately they want you and how urgently they need to have you... the powerful attraction and the desire... that's the magic, the chemistry. And its either there or not. Play acting will never cut it. 

And, btw, never question yourself for wanting and needing this, and never try to talk yourself out of needing it. Its a normal and natural part of any good marriage, and its normal and natural to need/ want it. Its not only women who need to feel desired by their partner, men have the same need. Feeling genuinely desired by the person you desire is part of what gives life its richness. You deserve to experience this.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> You can't make him desire you.
> 
> Given the result of the doctors visit - the answer is totally clear.
> 
> He does love you - he does not and NEVER will desire you.
> 
> YOU need IC, because you are stuck deep in the denial phase, grieving the death of your marriage.
> 
> Your marriage is dying - you may choose to remain in it - however it will still be dead. And you will be - a living person inside a dead relationship.
> 
> But the whole marriage lives or dies thing. A counselor cannot help with that - they can ONLY help with whether you choose to stay or leave.



So. Very. Well. Said.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I think I see what you're doing here. By insisting on therapy, you can walk away telling yourself you've done everything you could to make it work.
> 
> Honey, it's not alway so cut and dried as that.
> 
> Just know this...you cannot hope for long term happiness when you have to fight tooth and nail for minimal effort.


After reading some of her recent posts, I've also begun wondering if TCW has already hit the point of no return. Maybe it's just her current mood and tone of posts. I probably fell out of love years ago, but commitment and inertia kept me going. It's a very tough realization to make.

A big divergence in our situations is age. I want to have kids and build a family with someone that also really wants the same and time is not on my side so the decision to keep trying or to choose a new path was much more desperate. TCW and TCH still have some time to potentially change and work through these issues. 

The first key being his willingness to change AND her willingness to risk seeing if he will change. If either of those things are missing, then it's time to cut your losses for both of your sakes. Going through the motions to say "you tried everything" is really just delaying the inevitable in the end.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> After reading some of her recent posts, I've also begun wondering if TCW has already hit the point of no return. Maybe it's just her current mood and tone of posts. I probably fell out of love years ago, but commitment and inertia kept me going. It's a very tough realization to make.
> 
> A big divergence in our situations is age. I want to have kids and build a family with someone that also really wants the same and time is not on my side so the decision to keep trying or to choose a new path was much more desperate. TCW and TCH still have some time to potentially change and work through these issues.
> 
> The first key being his willingness to change AND her willingness to risk seeing if he will change. If either of those things are missing, then it's time to cut your losses for both of your sakes.



I'm not past the point of no return, but I feel myself inching there slowly. 

Especially with these recent discussions, I've really seen how little he cares, and how he would rather put all the blame on me instead of looking for ways for us to fix our issues together. He thinks none of this is by any fault of his own. 

Also, the extremely hurtful things he has said lately... I don't know if a person can come back from that. 

I'm trying to remain optimistic, but I feel myself detaching. It could be the horniness talking though.  Heaven knows I get pretty grouchy after not having sex for a while.

PS. I just realized I can't remember the last time I had sex. That is new for me. I usually keep track and count the days. I must really not care... :scratchhead:


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Especially with these recent discussions, I've really seen how little he cares, and how he would rather put all the blame on me instead of looking for ways for us to fix our issues together. He thinks none of this is by any fault of his own.


He probably has a preconceived notion of how the world is and always should be (we all do to some point) and now you're challenging that. I can't tell you with certainty if he's responding out of malice, ignorance, or fear. My STBX was sure the world was the way she saw it until it was gone. I know she regrets that now.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Okay so the counselor is waiting for a call back about an appointment date. She is on maternity leave right now, so it would be a couple weeks yet before she can see us. 

But husband is trying to convince me to give him one more try before seeking help. Money is an issue, and the first session alone is $130. Ouch.

He says we have been avoiding the issue and letting it go on too long. Now that he knows our marriage is crumbling he wants to actually try.  Now that we have been honest, he thinks we can work through it on our own.

He is proposing we give ourselves a set time, a month? And if we still are having problems he will happily go to the counselor.

He says he will go now if I really want him to, but he would like us to try and work it out first. I say we have been trying for 2.5 years and not getting anywhere.

So TAMers, what should I do? 

Personally I think the counselor would be good for us. It will be hard to come up with the money, but sacrifices have to be made. It's worth my mental and marriage health.

He is wanting me to trust him, and believe him that he will do better. I'd like to, but past actions speak louder than words.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I think you should go ahead and schedule the counselor. $130 is a small price to pay if you can get the help you need to save your marriage. I don't think you or your husband have the skills to work out these problems on your own. If you can find a great counselor that can help guide you, you will be better off. Ultimately, it's your decision though.

Also, your husband won't even read the books you've suggested, so how does he think you can work out these problems on your own if he won't even read a book for guidance?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, I think you should go ahead and schedule the counselor. $130 is a small price to pay if you can get the help you need to save your marriage. I don't think you or your husband have the skills to work out these problems on your own. If you can find a great counselor that can help guide you, you will be better off. Ultimately, it's your decision though.


:iagree:

Hopefully the counselor is not loony toons. :rofl: Her picture is a little questionable.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Counseling.



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is wanting me to trust him, and believe him that he will do better. I'd like to, but past actions speak louder than words.


Trust your instincts. This is a stalling tactic on his part.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I say go for the counseling.

If it doesn't work out by itself, you will be second guessing yourself later.

Also, ignore his plea to wait for counseling. He doesn't want to be put under the spotlight.

Too bad.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

being put under the spotlight might be exactly what he needs.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Also, your husband won't even read the books you've suggested, so how does he think you can work out these problems on your own if he won't even read a book for guidance?



This is a VERY good point.

I will make sure to mention that when I tell him we are going to the counselor.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks guys. 

You guys are great for helping me not be a doormat.


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It is up to you. I would make him make you his top priority or goodbye. If he isn't willing to put your marriage at the top of his list now, ahead of any other consideration. If he won't put your marriage first now, it will be more of the same later.

Do you have a solid idea of what he needs to accomplish immediately? I honestly think he does need counseling because he doesn't have a clue what that thing between his legs is for.

If I were you, I would press for counseling. How old are you two?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The impossible task, separating the truth from what you wish to see. 

He says he wants to try. Okay, so what does his "trying" look like too you?

How does he behave toward you through out the day? 
How does his behavior make you feel? (Also important - does that feeling come from your negative view/mistrust or from wishful thinking?)
What do you see him doing or saying that indicates he is trying?
How well do you feel you have communicated your desires/wants/needs?
How well do you think he understands what it is you want?

Here is what I have learned in the past few months...
1. His understanding of what I wanted was waaay off.
2. My understanding of how effectively I communicated was way off.
3. This conflict of understanding is not a fault on either of us.

Is this true in your sitch? I have no idea, only you can tell.

Here is what I have witnessed in the past few months.
1. His range of emotions has increased. He could not understand mine without first understanding his. As he grew to understand his, he simultaneously grew to understand mine.
2. His effort to save our marriage was unquestionably authentic.
3. After seeing and feeling the truth of all of the above, I responded positively, though cautiously.
4. This is the big one: *after feeling my positive response he has not once slipped back and instead has continued his efforts to improve our marriage.*

Can a previously selfish person become more aware? Yes, if he wants to.

How can you get him to want to?
By being willing to walk away. 

The pain of losing you must be greater than the pain of growing or he will fake it. And you will know when he is faking it.

All this to say...you should go to therapy. He has not demonstrated any sort of action or behavior to improve things. I believe he thinks if he can get it up more regularly and give you more orgasms. He can save his marriage. Unfortunately, there was a time when this was true, but that time is long past. Now you need to see bone deep commitment. And he is not showing that at all.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> All this to say...you should go to therapy. He has not demonstrated any sort of action or behavior to improve things. I believe he thinks if he can get it up more regularly and give you more orgasms. He can save his marriage. Unfortunately, there was a time when this was true, but that time is long past. Now you need to see bone deep commitment. And he is not showing that at all.


Short on time, so answering the thing that stuck out at me.

Yes. When first married I just wanted more sex, and more orgasms. (Because I had little to none.)

But I have long since realized the the issues go way beyond that. It's his complete lack of enthusiasm of anything sexual.

But he is still stuck believing that I just want more sex. Even though I've told him differently over and over.

Screw sex, I just want to _feel_ sexual. If he just looked at me with any sort of lust, or excitement. Instead I feel like I repulse him. I want to be groped in the shower, or for him to grin when he sees me naked. I want him to come home and ravish me, like he couldn't wait a second longer.

Heck, even just not getting my hand smacked when I went to touch him would be a start.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Can you guys gives me ideas on what goals or changes I would like for him to do? 

He needs step by step, clear defined type goals.

ETA: We are both under age 25.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good post AP!

Have you ever thought of having him read this thread CW? It may be too much and too long haha. Okay, how about at least getting through the 5 love languages with you?


----------



## ConanHub

TheCuriousWife said:


> Can you guys gives me ideas on what goals or changes I would like for him to do?
> 
> He needs step by step, clear defined type goals.
> 
> ETA: We are both under age 25.


I think AP nailed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> Good post AP!
> 
> *Have you ever thought of having him read this thread CW? *


This is an excellent idea!!!!

I have a rather LONG thread in a private group I gave my H access to. Took him a while, and hurt him tremendously I'm sure, but this kind of naked brutal honesty is vital for him. Yes for HIM.

Think about it CW, but continue to head to therapy.

Step by step clear goals will not work. BTDT. It will feel inauthentic because he is following a recipe rather than learning to do it. Learning to love is not like learning to drive; once you get the rudiments down task by task they then become an associative task. Learning to love has to be done by learning about ourselves, accepting our flaws, and loving the goodness anyway! Then we can apply that to others.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

AP is swinging for the fences today.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> AP is swinging for the fences today.


LOL!

Deejo restricted me to foam bats last week.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Can you guys gives me ideas on what goals or changes I would like for him to do?
> 
> He needs step by step, clear defined type goals.
> 
> ETA: *We are both under age 25.*


I truly hate to say this. But if this is what he's like and he's not even 25 years old, then I see no hope for a fulfilling marriage for either of you.

Do you know what I would be thinking like right now if I was your H's age? I'd be staring down at my red and raw unit, my wife would be sore in both her orifaces, with jaw pain, my tongue would be sore, swollen and fatigued, both of our lips would be chapped and sore, hickies all over our bodies, legs would be wobbly with sore, tired muscles, arms too tired to prop myself up anymore... and I would be still thinking "one more time. Let's do it just one more time".

IMHO, this is how you and your husband should be acting like at your ages ESPECIALLY since you have ZERO KIDS. If you think life is a challenge now from a sexual standpoint, kids complicate things all the more. 

I'm so sorry. I see zero hope here.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

One last try:

CW, he doesn't care.
And why should he? He has a wife who will stay thru thick and thin. All he has to do is offer something (we can go to counseling in a month) and that's good for a week or so, then offer something else. 
Your only real hope is to make it real for him, he must believe you will leave him If things don't improve. Saying it is not enough, file for D, it is your only hope, and a very slim one at that. Why?
Because he doesn't care.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He needs step by step, clear defined type goals.


That's the thing. Passion and desire can't really be "defined" by step-by-step goals. IMHO, it's either there, or it's not. 

Now, improving one's sex life (when the passion and desire are already there) through new techniques, new positions, etc. is clearly an achievable goal that can benefit from a step-by-step approach.



Plan 9 from OS said:


> I truly hate to say this. But if this is what he's like and he's not even 25 years old, then I see no hope for a fulfilling marriage for either of you...
> 
> ..If you think life is a challenge now from a sexual standpoint, kids complicate things all the more.
> 
> I'm so sorry. I see zero hope here.


I'm afraid I have to agree with this.

But by all means, you should both go to counseling if that will help YOU make a decision about your marriage. And for no other reason, he will have a clear understanding that your desire for passion is not abnormal and unreasonable.

Whatever you do, set a realistic, reasonable timeline for therapy. Say, if after 6 months (personally, I would give it about a month!) things haven't improved significantly, you're done. Otherwise you'll find yourself, just like I did, on the therapy-go-round for years.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Hoosier said:


> One last try:
> 
> CW, he doesn't care.
> And why should he? *He has a wife who will stay thru thick and thin.* All he has to do is offer something (we can go to counseling in a month) and that's good for a week or so, then offer something else.
> Your only real hope is to make it real for him, he must believe you will leave him If things don't improve. Saying it is not enough, file for D, it is your only hope, and a very slim one at that. Why?
> Because he doesn't care.


Small clarification, if I may. He has a wife who he can take advantage of because she wants to stay with him through thick and thin. That's more accurate IMO. The trait I highlighted above is admirable and highly desirable for a successful marriage. However, you need to be aware about whether she has a partner that is willing to reciprocate those feelings. She has no such partner. IMHO, he does not want to stay with her through thick and thin and he does not love her that deeply. 

That song by Meatloaf "I will do anything for love, but I won't do that" is very apropo as a description of her H.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

From: The merchant of Venice 
“I fear you speak upon the rack / Where men enforced do speak anything”

To avoid the rack*, C2 will lie TO you.

But he will not lie WITH you. Because he cannot lie with you as lovers do. 



* divorce 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Can you guys gives me ideas on what goals or changes I would like for him to do?
> 
> He needs step by step, clear defined type goals.
> 
> ETA: We are both under age 25.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> From: The merchant of Venice
> “I fear you speak upon the rack / Where men enforced do speak anything”
> 
> To avoid the rack*, C2 will lie TO you.
> 
> But he will not lie WITH you. Because he cannot lie with you as lovers do.
> 
> 
> 
> * divorce


Agreed. The true litmus test is action. When you mentioned counseling he communicated to you in 2 ways:


By his words, he's fully on board to commit to you fully. He asks for one shot to show you how much he loves you. All he asks is that you don't make him go to a counselor.
By his actions, he told you that he does not love you enough to want to make any major changes. The proof is that he did not jump at the chance to go to counseling with you nor did he try to read the books you showed him to actually help your situation.

My first comments in this thread was about how selfish your husband was and that he was lazy. Remember how he guilted you into giving him regular BJs while he was all put out over having to have PIV sex with you? Throughout this entire thread, I see nothing presented that changed my original perception about your H. He's a selfish ass.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,
Read this opening post from UMP in his thread "I hate to admit this"



UMP said:


> I was married once before. Only made it 18 months. I got a call from her father one day saying "Barbara does not want to be married to you anymore." I was completely floored and did not see it coming.
> Six years later I got married a second time and am still with the same person 23 years later.
> The weird part is that in my first marriage I was LD and she was HD. In my current marriage I am HD and she is LD.
> Why the difference?
> 
> I got married the first time young, at 23. We did not have sex before marriage, but she gave me a BJ almost daily. It then started on our honeymoon. I simply was not in to her. I cannot tell you why, it just did not click. I wanted to have sex, but not with her. She was constantly after me, but I would always reject her. I did not know why. She begged me to go down on her and I could only do it once in 18 months. I have not seen her since the day she left (believe it or not) and I now completely understand why she left. In fact, I am so thankful she did leave because I was going to stay no matter what. That would have been hell for both of us.
> 
> My second marriage is completely different. I dig my wife. She at first could take it or leave it (sex). I go down on her like I'm eating a kobe steak for the first time. I love it. I want sex more than she does, but things are getting better, which is great. We are mostly lined up at the moment.
> 
> ....




Sound familiar?


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Your husband needs to understand that this is not a negotiation. The time for that has passed - he blew it by blowing you off every time you expressed genuine concerns, or asked him to put in just a wee bit of effort - like simply reading a book that might help (he complained that was too "boring"). 

This is a stalling technique. He is still trying to avoid doing what he doesn't want to do. NO. As long as you continue to play along with that, he will continue to play _you_. He will not fully appreciate how serious this is nor will he start reacting appropriately if _you allow _him to keep stalling, making excuses, blah, blah, blah.

You've given him plenty of chances to step up. It didn't work. He needs to understand this is his _final opportunity_ to show he takes it seriously. Nothing else has been working. Its counseling or its over. You're not going to waste anymore of your time going round in circles with him. If this is going to work, great, get on with it working. If not, you want to know sooner _not later_, so you can move on with your life and so you can BOTH find someone you are truly compatible with. The clock is ticking. The longer you wait, the smaller the pool of suitable partners becomes as more and more people in your age group marry off (or get into committed relationships). 

_"He says we have been avoiding the issue and letting it go on too long. Now that he knows our marriage is crumbling he wants to actually try". 
_
Is he freaking kidding??! WHO has been avoiding the issue?! _"We?!"_ No, HIM. But worse, he doesn't know HOW to try. If this is going to have any hope of working, he needs the guidance of a professional to help him understand what he needs to do and how to go about that. This is a job for a professional counselor if its going to work at all because he has proven time and again that he is truly clueless. And that being so, with issues like resentment at play, he will need guidance in working through that or it will only continue to fester despite any good intentions he may have. It is complicated now, and his character is not equipped to unravel it without professional help. 

"_He is proposing we give ourselves a set time, a month? And if we still are having problems he will happily go to the counselor."
_
The problem with this is that in a month he will have another excuse or game plan he'll try to suck you into. That's the way he rolls. NO. The other problem with this is, if you cave to that, he still doesn't see how deadly SERIOUS this is. It is indeed time to [email protected] or get off the pot. Its time to make him realize_ in terms he can understand_ that there is a major problem here and the marriage is under definite threat of demise. To do that, you must take action, not just use words at this point. That means counseling, now, with no delay. That's the only way you will truly find out what he is made of when it comes to resolving these problems and living happily ever after (or not). Its either counseling NOW, or its divorce - no negotiation. Talk to him in a language he will finally understand.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

^ ^ ^
THIS! :iagree:

If I could like justfab's post a hundred times, I would!

This is *gold.* CW, I highly suggest you read, re-read, and then read again the above post. H*ll, print it out and hang it on your mirror.

justfab doesn't have "skin in the game", so to speak, so it's coming from a well-meaning _neutral_ perspective. An objective person can see that everything in her post is entirely true. You have doubts because you're IN it. Your husband has doubts because he's CLUELESS. (I happen to think he is also childish and passive-aggressive, but that's a post for another day.)

When he starts offering up his pukey, lame excuses -- just rattle off ALL the reasons above why you are BOTH going to counseling. Or you're leaving.

I hope you won't cave on this one.

Pay particular attention to these gems:




justfabulous said:


> Your husband needs to understand that this is not a negotiation. *The time for that has passed.*
> 
> This is a stalling technique.
> 
> He is still trying to avoid doing what he doesn't want to do.
> 
> You've given him plenty of chances to step up. It didn't work. He needs to understand this is his _final opportunity_ to show he takes it seriously.
> 
> _"He says we have been avoiding the issue and letting it go on too long. Now that he knows our marriage is crumbling he wants to actually try". _* Is he freaking kidding??! * WHO has been avoiding the issue?! _"We?!"_ No, HIM.
> 
> This is a job for a professional counselor if its going to work at all...
> 
> "_He is proposing we give ourselves a set time, a month? And if we still are having problems he will happily go to the counselor."_ The problem with this is that in a month he will have another excuse or game plan he'll try to suck you into. That's the way he rolls. NO.
> 
> The other problem with this is, if you cave to that, he still doesn't see how deadly SERIOUS this is. It is indeed time to *[email protected] or get off the pot.*


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I just worry that if you get him into counseling he will try to use that as a stalling tactic, showing small improvement for short bursts, just to say he is trying. 

I know that sounds like I'm saying he's a bad person. I'm not, so don't take it that way CW. Just watch for this. Please.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:smthumbup:

Love you guys!

I've responded back to the counselor, and hopefully she will be able to fit us on the 31st. (Her first day back.)

I'm excited to be able to a talk to a real life person. It's horrible holding it all in side for years. I'm also a little nervous. Who wants to talk bad about their sex life, especially in front of their husband?  lol.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> I just worry that if you get him into counseling he will try to use that as a stalling tactic, showing small improvement for short bursts, just to say he is trying.
> 
> I know that sounds like I'm saying he's a bad person. I'm not, so don't take it that way CW. Just watch for this. Please.


I think your assessment is spot-on, IDK. My ex (who is an M.D. and had advanced degrees in Psychology) was a master manipulator. I call it the "Therapy-go-Round". It was ALWAYS used to stall, regroup (on his part), out-flank (on his part), confuse me, "guilt" me, and threaten my "lifestyle."

That's why CW's post a few pages back about wanting to keep her house, their friends, her pets, their "LIFE", REALLY triggered me.

Houses are BUILDINGS and are replaceable. Friends come and go (I can count on one hand the number of friends from the early days of my marriage to now), and pets get to live with the "coolest" parent . Seriously, get a new cat.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> Love you guys!
> 
> I've responded back to the counselor, and hopefully she will be able to fit us on the 31st. (Her first day back.)
> 
> I'm excited to be able to a talk to a real life person. It's horrible holding it all in side for years. I'm also a little nervous. Who wants to talk bad about their sex life?  lol.


P.S. CW, just to ease your mind... anyone who is THAT quirky in appearance (love the corsage on her chest!!!) AND just delivered a baby -- obviously is having sex! -- is probably a "free spirit" who will be immensely helpful.

(Ok, I realize that's all based on a stereotype of a picture, but I'm hoping for the best!)


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> I just worry that if you get him into counseling he will try to use that as a stalling tactic, showing small improvement for short bursts, just to say he is trying.
> 
> 
> 
> What I don't get is why anyone thinks counseling will automatically work. After all, he might get the counselor version of the doctor that said he's completely normal and that she's a sick nympho. And, if it did work, how long would it take?
> 
> Save the $130. Tell him he's got a month. If you don't see effort by then, fill out the papers.
Click to expand...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Haha happy as a clam, I certainly have a lot more than a cat...

I have a large herd of livestock which are all my babies, and a horse, and cats, and dogs. Including my very old childhood cat, who is brain damaged and has to be hand medicated, fed, and cleaned daily. I may be the crazy animal lady.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Buddy400 said:


> What I don't get is why anyone thinks counseling will *automatically* work. After all, he might get the counselor version of the doctor that said he's completely normal and that she's a sick nympho. And, if it did work, how long would it take?
> 
> Save the $130. Tell him he's got a month. If you don't see effort by then, fill out the papers.


Buddy, I don't think ANY of us who have been following this thread think counseling will "automatically" work. In fact, quite the opposite.

Our goal (because we're ALL in sweet CW's corner) is to give her the peace of mind to EMPOWER her, to know that she tried EVERYTHING, to make a clear and rational decision (whether she stays or goes) about her marriage.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> P.S. CW, just to ease your mind... anyone who is THAT quirky in appearance (love the corsage on her chest!!!) AND just delivered a baby -- obviously is having sex! -- is probably a "free spirit" who will be immensely helpful.
> 
> (Ok, I realize that's all based on a stereotype of a picture, but I'm hoping for the best!)


I was thinking she looked kind of crazy.  Not sure if that is good or bad. 

But I found some of her old blog posts, and she seemed pretty liberal and "quirky." Kind of reminded me of Anon Pink. :rofl: Exactly what my husband needs... and me! We both need a 2x4 to the head.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well, CW, if you don't like her for some reason, you can always try another one.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Buddy400 said:


> I Don't Know said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just worry that if you get him into counseling he will try to use that as a stalling tactic, showing small improvement for short bursts, just to say he is trying.
> 
> 
> 
> What I don't get is why anyone thinks counseling will automatically work. After all, he might get the counselor version of the doctor that said he's completely normal and that she's a sick nympho. And, if it did work, how long would it take?
> 
> Save the $130. Tell him he's got a month. If you don't see effort by then, fill out the papers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I don't think the counseling will work, because CW and her husband are truly incompatible. She wants and needs the type of man her husband can never be and will never be. It is not who he is, and its not something that can be learned and still be genuine. And if its not genuine, its not going to fill the need she has. So no matter how hard he *might* finally decide to try to be the man she wants, he will never be successful. It is not part of his genetic makeup.
> 
> That said, however, I think counseling is necessary for them to both come to realize this. And for them to know, when and if they choose to move on, that they really did what they could to see if the marriage could work, so they can move forward without looking back wondering 'what if...'. I see it as a necessary step in leading up to the inevitable. Sort of a part of the process of elimination. And if, by some miracle, it actually gets them on the right track, then that's awesome. Sadly, however, I doubt it.
> 
> If the counselor is incompetent and concludes he's completely normal and that she's a sick nympho, I guess it confirms that they are incompatible and there's no where to go with it.
> 
> I think CW is wise enough to know that it is not the case, and she would ultimately recognize there really is no magical cure for this situation, its not going to get "fixed", and the best path is to lovingly let each other go so they can both move forward and find partners they are actually compatible with; so that they can both finally be free to be, and experience, who they truly are.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I was thinking she looked kind of crazy.  Not sure if that is good or bad.
> 
> But I found some of her old blog posts, and she seemed pretty liberal and "quirky." Kind of reminded me of Anon Pink. :rofl: Exactly what my husband needs... and me! We both need a 2x4 to the head.



She sounds like she's worth a shot. You never know, a slightly crazy, quirky approach might just be what it takes to help you guys sort some of it out. Ultimately, it ain't over til the fat lady sings...

I am excited for you guys! It will be exciting to see how your counseling sessions go. Its good to be hopeful, just remain realistic.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Buddy, I don't think ANY of us who have been following this thread think counseling will "automatically" work. In fact, quite the opposite.
> 
> Our goal (because we're ALL in sweet CW's corner) is to give her the peace of mind to EMPOWER her, to know that she tried EVERYTHING, to make a clear and rational decision (whether she stays or goes) about her marriage.


Bad choice of words. I should have said "probably".

However, CW2 seems like he might have finally felt the 2x4 to the head. A month to see if he does anything about it is reasonable.

She doesn't have to worry that she hasn't tried hard enough. She has.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Buddy400 said:


> She doesn't have to worry that she hasn't tried hard enough. She has.


You got THAT, Brother! She has tried MORE than enough. We are ALL (mostly) in agreement.

Just hope SHE agrees too...


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious Wife...you're doing great. I think you are handling this all in a really healthy timeline. You aren't past the point of no return yet, and your H has yet to find out what he's really made of...he may surprise you yet. You know he has at least some amount of religious sexual guilt...and he is apparently naturally LD. You on the other hand are naturally HD and very curious and eager. The two of you are really almost at opposite ends of this stick! When you consider this, you're both doing very well. 

It may be that by not just getting "more sex", which you would have settled for when you were first married, you found that ultimate truth about yourself: that you want more intimacy and true desire than more sex. This is something that many people don't find until they are much older. For a lot of people, "more sex" seems like it would cure all that ails them. But really, it usually doesn't cure much. True intimacy and desire (combined with good sex) DO cure a lot of things that ail people, and in the end, it is usually more about emotional intimacy than physical intimacy. Adults stop craving "more sex" and begin craving "more sharing of our true selves".

You are both still able to make positive changes. Try - if you can - to picture your husband doing the things you would like him to - try picturing kissing him deeply and him seeing you and his eyes flashing with desire - - even though it probably stings your heart to imagine these things, knowing you don't get them, just set that aside for now and give him a real chance. Including picturing what would be fun for you and good for you...this way when you finally get around to the conversations with him or with an MC about what you really want, you will be able to describe it. Test out your feelings by having vivid fantasies about what you'd like.

If these fantasies make you horny then great, but the point wouldn't be for this, it would be for you to begin creating new pathways in your own brain to allow these chances to occur. And the more you imagine what you want and stop thinking about the ways he doesn't do those things, the more you will activate the possibilities for improvement.

Good luck!


----------



## happy as a clam

TheCuriousWife said:


> Haha happy as a clam, I certainly have a lot more than a cat...
> 
> I have a large herd of livestock which are all my babies, and a horse, and cats, and dogs. Including my very old childhood cat, who is brain damaged and has to be hand medicated, fed, and cleaned daily. I may be the crazy animal lady.


 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> It may be that by not just getting "more sex", which you would have settled for when you were first married, you found that ultimate truth about yourself: that you want more intimacy and true desire than more sex. This is something that many people don't find until they are much older. For a lot of people, "more sex" seems like it would cure all that ails them. But really, it usually doesn't cure much. True intimacy and desire (combined with good sex) DO cure a lot of things that ail people, and in the end, it is usually more about emotional intimacy than physical intimacy. Adults stop craving "more sex" and begin craving "more sharing of our true selves".



This is so true!!!

I've missed you an awful lot FW!!! Welcome back!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Glad to see you FW!

Thanks for the great advice.

Counseling appointment is set for the 31st. 

Husband really showed me some desire last night, and we had some great sex.  Time will tell if it's a permanent change or not.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Glad you scheduled the appointment with the counselor. I hope you both like her. In the meantime, don't your husband put forth a little effort between now and appointment time and try to convince you that he's cured. Stick to your guns CW!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Glad you scheduled the appointment with the counselor. I hope you both like her. In the meantime, don't your husband put forth a little effort between now and appointment time and try to convince you that he's cured. Stick to your guns CW!


No worries. Despite how he acts, we will be going to the appointment. 

In other news, he refuses to ever try the Viagra the doctor gave him.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*









You're almost there intheory! It's been a long read eh?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No worries. Despite how he acts, we will be going to the appointment.
> 
> In other news, he refuses to ever try the Viagra the doctor gave him.


What is his reason for refusing the Viagra?


----------



## ConanHub

4x4 said:


> You're almost there intheory! It's been a long read eh?


LOL! She is getting great encouragement and it isn't even her thread! &#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have a feeling many people have learned things from this thread. People that would never post.

Hey CW maybe you should give your new counselor some reading material for when she's nursing the baby. :rofl:


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Haha sorry, just judging from the occasional likes I get I think she's been working on this thread for weeks/months and finally almost caught up? Just having fun today.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
He won't try vitamin V because it would enable him to increase the frequency of an activity he dislikes. 

Currently, his ED creates a huge physiological barrier to frequency.

BTW: I made an excellent living in corporate sales. Largely because I was able to:
- understand how the buyers thought about the process and product 
- use that knowledge to create scripted conversations that shaped their behavior in the desired direction

That said, if your H had hired me to develop a strategy for suppressing your desire, I would have written a script that is identical to what he says and does. 

I ALSO would have told him this: 

You are attempting to shape CW's behavior in a manner that directly conflicts with her core nature. The tactics below WILL work, however they will cause intense misery and erode her self confidence. 

Tactics: 
- Consistent and unmistakable body language and tone of voice conveying your aversion to/tolerance of sex
- Careful choice of words to let her know that you are ONLY providing her pity sex
- Refuse, avoid or delay any medical or psychological assistance 
- Shape her expectations sharply downward for the post baby world to come

The result will be:
- CW initiates less frequently and less aggressively
- CW feels: anxious, depressed and inadequate/undesirable







TheCuriousWife said:


> No worries. Despite how he acts, we will be going to the appointment.
> 
> In other news, he refuses to ever try the Viagra the doctor gave him.


----------



## Tigereyes

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

HI. I am a little embarrassed to ask but what does LD stand for? I am new to this site and there are a lot of abbreviations used all over and I am just trying to figure them all out.

The TAM (Talk About Marriage?) site should put an abbreviation directory together for newbies like me.
:scratchhead:


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No worries. Despite how he acts, we will be going to the appointment.
> 
> In other news, he refuses to ever try the Viagra the doctor gave him.





> Husband really showed me some desire last night


One step at a time. Really happy that he showed desire! The Viagra doesn't sound like it's going to help until he builds up his desire to please you on a more frequent basis and realize he needs it for the physical boost. More walls need to come down yet.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Tigereyes said:


> HI. I am a little embarrassed to ask but what does LD stand for? I am new to this site and there are a lot of abbreviations used all over and I am just trying to figure them all out.
> 
> The TAM (Talk About Marriage?) site should put an abbreviation directory together for newbies like me.
> :scratchhead:


LD = low drive/desire
HD = high drive/desire

You can find a bunch of shorthand In this post.


----------



## UMP

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No worries. Despite how he acts, we will be going to the appointment.
> 
> In other news, he refuses to ever try the Viagra the doctor gave him.


A side note on the Viagra:
I am 53 and can get hard without Viagra. However, if I take Viagra on an empty stomach (3 hours without food) in 20 minutes my penis turns into a weapon of mass destruction. It feels MUCH better on Viagra, for some reason. May I gently suggest that you figure out a way for him to take it. MUST be on empty stomach!! Also, many men including myself get a headache and stuffy nose. If I take 2 Aleive and a squirt of Afrin with the Viagra, no problems.


----------



## Tigereyes

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> LD = low drive/desire
> HD = high drive/desire
> 
> You can find a bunch of shorthand In this post.


Thank you so much, that clears up alot. :smthumbup:


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Husband really showed me some desire last night, and we had some great sex.  Time will tell if it's a permanent change or not.



Awesome that you had a fulfilling encounter last night! You deserve it -- _ALL the time_, not just once in a blue moon! 

And time will indeed tell if he can get there. Unfortunately, he _does_ have a past history of throwing you a bone  and upping his effort to keep you pacified every so often when he getting nervous, but he doesn't sustain it. So proceed with caution... I think unless and until some deep internal changes happen within him, whether psychologically (_maybe_ the counselor can help with that) or in my opinion, _physiologically,_ these encounters will always be sporadic bursts rather than sustained changes. But in the meantime, enjoy every moment of it when happens, and remind yourself that_ this should be the way things regularly are_, that you deserve nothing less, and that you will settle for nothing less. 

Here's wishing you a goooood weekend  :smthumbup:


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Haha happy as a clam, I certainly have a lot more than a cat...
> 
> I have a large herd of livestock which are all my babies, and a horse, and cats, and dogs. Including my very old childhood cat, who is brain damaged and has to be hand medicated, fed, and cleaned daily. I may be the crazy animal lady.


Okay, I actually understand this. I'm a HUGE animal lover too. Once they get into your heart you can't just walk away and leave them behind. I get it. 

You can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat animals.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Hi Curious,
> 
> I have been reading your thread from the beginning since November.
> 
> I think your husband really loves you. That is very precious.
> 
> I remember w-a-a-a-y back upthread you posted an animated picture your husband had created of him jogging in a mountain wilderness; and you were depicted crouching behind a bush getting ready to pounce on him. He wrote some snarky caption that joked about you wanting him so much.
> 
> And I sort of hated him for that.
> 
> Then you wrote that you were up in the middle of the night when your plastic bronchitis was making you feel terrible. You dozed off in the living room; when you woke up, he was right there beside you, realizing you weren't in bed - he had gotten up to be there for you and comfort you when you woke up.
> 
> And I thought; that's what a person who loves someone does.
> 
> You've told us that his parents never slept together the entire time he was growing up. His parents slept separately with one/some of the children.
> 
> That is so "out there". What a powerful, shaping influence on him. That is his role model of marriage, and the marriage bed.
> 
> You've said that your own family life was not so good. And you spent a lot of time with his family growing up. You love his family a lot. You feel deeply emotionally connected to him because of this, I'm sure. And it is kind of wonderful.
> 
> *But*, is it possible that he sees you as a fun, pretty *sister*?
> 
> Not consciously, obviously. You are not his genetic sister.
> 
> But emotionally, it seems possible.
> 
> And guys don't (hopefully) feel super sexy about their sisters.
> 
> Remember the girl with the big boobs in your circle of friends that he would flirt with. (She's having marital problems of her own now?? Is that right??) And it was treated as a big joke; and it really hurt your feelings? [I'm with you on that one Curious].
> 
> That girl was probably not sisterly in his mind.
> 
> He's alluded to wanting to see you wear make-up. I believe he told you that you might get more action if you wore it.
> 
> Which bewildered you, 'cause he always claims he doesn't like "painted" women.
> 
> But no guy wants/cares about his "sister" looking sultry in make-up. Makeup looks sexy.
> 
> He likes you in heels, short skirts and with a little cleavage showing. [You were dressed up that way to go to a wedding.]
> 
> Then the fantasy he shared with you about wanting to see you strip.
> 
> That one comment that you are not sexy.
> 
> It seems that in his own (somewhat fumbling, tactless) way; that he is communicating that he doesn't want a "sister" to have sex with. Over and over again, I've had the feeling that he needs you to be "slùtty". Something as far from a sister as possible. To me that explains the mechanical quality of the sex that you guys are sometimes having. He's not getting the right kind of "fuel", for his drive.
> 
> You are a cute, sweet, lovable sister, to be sure. But he can't feel a lot of desire for "her".
> 
> I think there might be a lot said for you really amping up the sex appeal, Curious. *Do it with your style*. Use it to express what _you_ think is pretty/sexy. I know you said he kind of ruined the make-up experiment; 'cause him saying he wants it, makes you feel that now that's _something else_ you do for him.
> 
> Don't tell him you're doing it. Do it for you.
> 
> When his friends come over; don't retire to the bedroom immediately. Pay them attention to the exclusion of H. I'm NOT advocating "coming on" to his friends. I have seen this work in my own life. Pay a little more attention to a guys' friends than you are to him (while he is in the room), and they always seem to notice. Notice you, that is.
> 
> Maybe these "sister" issues are something that can be discussed with your therapist.???
> 
> You DO have great sex with him sometimes. Many times, over the course of this thread.
> 
> He's a butt sometimes. But he also seems like a decent hearted guy. He can't help that he got some weird input about marital sexuality from his folks. He can't help that spending so much time with you growing up, has caused him to have a sibling type attitude toward you.
> 
> Low-T? Maybe. Plan9fromOS said he has lower T levels than your husband; and he and his wife sound like rabbits (good for them:smthumbup Maybe there is something to the T thing. I don't know. Lifting weights is supposed to be a great natural way to boost testosterone.
> 
> Maybe your H can shower with you without getting aroused, go limp during intercourse, not have morning erections all the time -- because he is not an overly sexy person. And living with a woman whom he may feel fraternal with at some deeper level; isn't going to change that much.
> 
> You described yourself as "bossy" and you take charge of things. That's admirable that you are responsible Curious. And I'm sure your husband loves having you mind the details for him.
> 
> But you don't want to add a "motherly" dynamic to the sisterly one.
> 
> Need him to do stuff for you as much as authentically possible.
> 
> Don't tell him to; like a "mommy". Ask him to, 'cause you're his wife and you need your husband's help to do [whatever it is].
> 
> I could be out-to-lunch, Curious. I just put what my overwhelming impression was as I've read your thread over the last 4-5 months.
> 
> I get what you feel about your animals too. You are nursing your childhood cat You are such a sweetie.
> 
> I want you and MrCurious to win.
> 
> Hope I haven't offended you. Take what I say with a grain of salt; it's just my feelings.


Dang, InTheory. Even if it is not right, that was an incredibly insightful post.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Love and attraction unfortunately don't always go together. When you aren't very sexual to begin with, it's certainly possible to love someone without feeling the need to have sex frequently with them. Now and then he can be what CW needs. Left to his own timetable (every ten days or so) he might be better at showing desire but that timing will never work for her. 

The other complicating factor is he's inexperienced and doesn't seem very interested in learning to be good at sex. It's too bad he doesn't like to read. There is plenty of help available online. 

I think that his upbringing definitely complicated his idea of sex. He feels what his parents have is normal and that's what he wants. It would take a tremendous amount of work for him to change his thinking and, while he may change some, at the end of the day it's unlikely he is going to be the man that CW needs.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Intheory 
Your post below - is an absolutely brilliant analysis. 

I'm only going to add one element to it. C2's T levels are VERY low for his AGE. T levels are, like anything else a mix of nature and nurture. I'm guessing that at least ONE of his parents is low T. And that parent is the reason for the separate beds. 

So on TOP of any sexual dynamic described below - he is low drive. 

---------
CW has described a rural setting. Nothing wrong with that. If I were her, I'd do an experiment. A few nights a week, right AFTER work I'd slip into a skirt and blouse. Do a quick makeup job. 

Then I'd just act like everything is normal EXCEPT:
1. I wouldn't touch him - don't push him away - but don't initiate contact. 
2. Don't hit him with a sexual vibe - at all
3. Don't be 'in charge' in terms of tone. 

And just see what happens. 

A little ****ty but NOT aggressive. He's turned off by aggression. And accept that it may take him a few nights of this happening to reach the temperature needed for him to initiate. 






intheory said:


> Hi Curious,
> 
> I have been reading your thread from the beginning since November.
> 
> I think your husband really loves you. That is very precious.
> 
> I remember w-a-a-a-y back upthread you posted an animated picture your husband had created of him jogging in a mountain wilderness; and you were depicted crouching behind a bush getting ready to pounce on him. He wrote some snarky caption that joked about you wanting him so much.
> 
> And I sort of hated him for that.
> 
> Then you wrote that you were up in the middle of the night when your plastic bronchitis was making you feel terrible. You dozed off in the living room; when you woke up, he was right there beside you, realizing you weren't in bed - he had gotten up to be there for you and comfort you when you woke up.
> 
> And I thought; that's what a person who loves someone does.
> 
> You've told us that his parents never slept together the entire time he was growing up. His parents slept separately with one/some of the children.
> 
> That is so "out there". What a powerful, shaping influence on him. That is his role model of marriage, and the marriage bed.
> 
> You've said that your own family life was not so good. And you spent a lot of time with his family growing up. You love his family a lot. You feel deeply emotionally connected to him because of this, I'm sure. And it is kind of wonderful.
> 
> *But*, is it possible that he sees you as a fun, pretty *sister*?
> 
> Not consciously, obviously. You are not his genetic sister.
> 
> But emotionally, it seems possible.
> 
> And guys don't (hopefully) feel super sexy about their sisters.
> 
> Remember the girl with the big boobs in your circle of friends that he would flirt with. (She's having marital problems of her own now?? Is that right??) And it was treated as a big joke; and it really hurt your feelings? [I'm with you on that one Curious].
> 
> That girl was probably not sisterly in his mind.
> 
> He's alluded to wanting to see you wear make-up. I believe he told you that you might get more action if you wore it.
> 
> Which bewildered you, 'cause he always claims he doesn't like "painted" women.
> 
> But no guy wants/cares about his "sister" looking sultry in make-up. Makeup looks sexy.
> 
> He likes you in heels, short skirts and with a little cleavage showing. [You were dressed up that way to go to a wedding.]
> 
> Then the fantasy he shared with you about wanting to see you strip.
> 
> That one comment that you are not sexy.
> 
> It seems that in his own (somewhat fumbling, tactless) way; that he is communicating that he doesn't want a "sister" to have sex with. Over and over again, I've had the feeling that he needs you to be "slùtty". Something as far from a sister as possible. To me that explains the mechanical quality of the sex that you guys are sometimes having. He's not getting the right kind of "fuel", for his drive.
> 
> You are a cute, sweet, lovable sister, to be sure. But he can't feel a lot of desire for "her".
> 
> I think there might be a lot said for you really amping up the sex appeal, Curious. *Do it with your style*. Use it to express what _you_ think is pretty/sexy. I know you said he kind of ruined the make-up experiment; 'cause him saying he wants it, makes you feel that now that's _something else_ you do for him.
> 
> Don't tell him you're doing it. Do it for you.
> 
> When his friends come over; don't retire to the bedroom immediately. Pay them attention to the exclusion of H. I'm NOT advocating "coming on" to his friends. I have seen this work in my own life. Pay a little more attention to a guys' friends than you are to him (while he is in the room), and they always seem to notice. Notice you, that is.
> 
> Maybe these "sister" issues are something that can be discussed with your therapist.???
> 
> You DO have great sex with him sometimes. Many times, over the course of this thread.
> 
> He's a butt sometimes. But he also seems like a decent hearted guy. He can't help that he got some weird input about marital sexuality from his folks. He can't help that spending so much time with you growing up, has caused him to have a sibling type attitude toward you.
> 
> Low-T? Maybe. Plan9fromOS said he has lower T levels than your husband; and he and his wife sound like rabbits (good for them:smthumbup Maybe there is something to the T thing. I don't know. Lifting weights is supposed to be a great natural way to boost testosterone.
> 
> Maybe your H can shower with you without getting aroused, go limp during intercourse, not have morning erections all the time -- because he is not an overly sexy person. And living with a woman whom he may feel fraternal with at some deeper level; isn't going to change that much.
> 
> You described yourself as "bossy" and you take charge of things. That's admirable that you are responsible Curious. And I'm sure your husband loves having you mind the details for him.
> 
> But you don't want to add a "motherly" dynamic to the sisterly one.
> 
> Need him to do stuff for you as much as authentically possible.
> 
> Don't tell him to; like a "mommy". Ask him to, 'cause you're his wife and you need your husband's help to do [whatever it is].
> 
> I could be out-to-lunch, Curious. I just put what my overwhelming impression was as I've read your thread over the last 4-5 months.
> 
> I get what you feel about your animals too. You are nursing your childhood cat You are such a sweetie.
> 
> I want you and MrCurious to win.
> 
> Hope I haven't offended you. Take what I say with a grain of salt; it's just my feelings.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> I think there might be a lot said for you really amping up the sex appeal, Curious. *Do it with your style*. Use it to express what _you_ think is pretty/sexy. I know you said he kind of ruined the make-up experiment; 'cause him saying he wants it, makes you feel that now that's _something else_ you do for him.
> 
> Don't tell him you're doing it. Do it for you.


Everything intheory wrote was good, but I want to pull this part out in particular. I think it'd be good to do things that make you feel sexy. Kind of a mini 180, in a way.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Intheory glad to see you finally caught up. :smthumbup:

Thank you for that very heartfelt post.

I'm not sure that he sees me as a sister, but I can agree that he sees me as the fun/hang out with buddy rather than a sexual being. 

I will admit, I'm not very sexual. Acting or looking. I look about 12, I'm usually in jeans and a t shirt, and smell like animals. lol. 

Although I try to act sexy, most times I fail miserably and I end up looking like an idiot. Which we both laugh at. 

But I thought that is what he liked about me. He always told me he was attracted to me because I hung out with the guys, and wasn't into the girly things. 

I do make an effort to dress nicely, if we are going somewhere. But in our neck of the woods, nicer occasions are few and far in between.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have tried what MEM is suggesting in the past. I've dressed up, and then played a little hard to get. It really did nothing. Like I've said before, he doesn't even notice when I'm naked. Let alone when I wear different clothes. He doesn't seem very visual. 

We did talk about this a little in our recent discussions. He has been making an effort to whistle or compliment me when I'm undressing or wearing something a little nicer.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will admit, I'm not very sexual. Acting or looking. I look about 12, I'm usually in jeans and a t shirt, and smell like animals. lol.
> 
> Although I try to act sexy, most times I fail miserably and I end up looking like an idiot. Which we both laugh at.
> 
> But I thought that is what he liked about me. He always told me he was attracted to me because I hung out with the guys, and wasn't into the girly things.
> 
> I do make an effort to dress nicely, if we are going somewhere. But in our neck of the woods, nicer occasions are few and far in between.


You don't have to dress overtly sexy, but just something small to make yourself feel sexy. I'm very much a jeans and t-shirt type woman too, but I tend to always wear nice underwear. I have bras with lace and lace hiphugger panties(do not like thongs). They're comfortable, but also very sexy looking. It helps me feel sexy, even if my husband doesn't do or say anything about it. Wearing them under my regular clothes can make a big difference vs wearing just regular cotton panties. I also like using a nice perfume here and there. A quick spritz and that's all you have to do. It's an easy, simple change to make you feel a little more sexy. It may not grab your husband's attention, but can give that sexy boost to make yourself feel good.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

To be clear. I used to be friends with his best friend. We laughed and joked, etc. It was all innocent, but husband was quite jealous. It was the cause of our only fights before marriage. I won't be trying to provoke that again. He did not like it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> You don't have to dress overtly sexy, but just something small to make yourself feel sexy. I'm very much a jeans and t-shirt type woman too, but I tend to always wear nice underwear. I have bras with lace and lace hiphugger panties(do not like thongs). They're comfortable, but also very sexy looking. It helps me feel sexy, even if my husband doesn't do or say anything about it. Wearing them under my regular clothes can make a big difference vs wearing just regular cotton panties. I also like using a nice perfume here and there. A quick spritz and that's all you have to do. It's an easy, simple change to make you feel a little more sexy. It may not grab your husband's attention, but can give that sexy boost to make yourself feel good.


I ALWAYS wear nice panties, and matching bras. I also wear perfume nearly daily. 

Good ideas.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I ALWAYS wear nice panties, and matching bras. I also wear perfume nearly daily.
> 
> Good ideas.




You can also give yourself a new hair cut. Try something different with make-up or just wear a little in general if you don't normally do so(like me). There are a lot of little changes you can make that can help you feel better about yourself.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Whoa! I missed this bit about the flirty chick the first time around.

CW--I don't think it's petty and immature to take offense to having some gal deliberately nosing around your husband, and then tweaking YOUR nose with it. Frankly, your husband should be stepping on this hard and putting an end to it, especially if he knows how you feel about it.

Not cool.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I'm assuming your H is being honest about not liking painted women. I'm the same way, BUT I love eye makeup. No lipstick, no heavy face makeup. But some dark eye makeup. HELL YEAH. Just a thought.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> Whoa! I missed this bit about the flirty chick the first time around.
> 
> CW--I don't think it's petty and immature to take offense to having some gal deliberately nosing around your husband, and then tweaking YOUR nose with it. Frankly, your husband should be stepping on this hard and putting an end to it, especially if he knows how you feel about it.
> 
> Not cool.


I can't remember if I updated about this situation or not. But that girl got married last year and is about to have a baby. I haven't seen her since maybe July. She lives half way across the country. 

She wouldn't dream of flirting with my husband anymore. Her husband is super jealous, and neither of them are even allowed to have opposite gender facebook friends. So no more worries.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, do you have hobbies or do any type of volunteer work that doesn't include your husband? Something that gets you out of the house a night or two a week?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'll only say this once. 

- Choose a firm proceed/terminate date - maybe 6 months. 
- Keep a daily journal of that part of your life

And frame your assessment in terms of compatibility, not love.




TheCuriousWife said:


> I have tried what MEM is suggesting in the past. I've dressed up, and then played a little hard to get. It really did nothing. Like I've said before, he doesn't even notice when I'm naked. Let alone when I wear different clothes. He doesn't seem very visual.
> 
> We did talk about this a little in our recent discussions. He has been making an effort to whistle or compliment me when I'm undressing or wearing something a little nicer.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> I'll only say this once.
> 
> *- Choose a firm proceed/terminate date* - maybe 6 months.
> - Keep a daily journal of that part of your life
> 
> And frame your assessment in terms of compatibility, not love.


:iagree:

I'm a little more jaded though. I say, give it a MONTH to notice REAL changes. A month is plenty long enough to know whether or not someone is "on board."


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey Curious! Hope things are going well. Is your counseling session still on for tomorrow?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes we are still on for tomorrow.

I called the insurance, and we are covered.  It looks like I may have to pay up to a $600 deductible, but that's it. That is a lot less than I expected, especially if we go weekly for the next several months.

Things have been going very well here. Husband is trying. He has shown more desire, and we have been getting along extremely well. I don't know that it is a permanent change, but I'm glad he is putting in some effort.

I'm very forgetful, and forgiving. So it is going to be hard to remember all the things that I wanted to share with the counselor. Help! What are some of the main points I should bring up? I better read through some of this thread before I go. lol.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm glad things are going a little better, having a connection can make talking go much smoother. You may need to take notes to remember things but it should help you communicate clearer not just in anger.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

If it makes you feel better, H and I paid for counseling out of pocket when we were living abroad. Now here in the US it's free, but we spent about $500 overseas. I think sometimes having to pay cash can help you (by which I mean your H) take it seriously. Good luck!!


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good luck tomorrow CW - hope you have a very production session!

And yes, go back through this thread and make some notes. Do your homework so you are ready with all the right talking points. The best thing you can do to ensure this is worthwhile is to go in_ well __prepared!_ Make sure you are equipped with details concerning what the issues are, and what your objectives are. Let us know how it goes. Wishing you the best!


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Reread your thread. That always reminds me when I need to remember. And funny enough, to this day all the advice I received a year ago or thereabouts is still relevant now.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes we are still on for tomorrow.
> 
> I called the insurance, and we are covered.  It looks like I may have to pay up to a $600 deductible, but that's it. That is a lot less than I expected, especially if we go weekly for the next several months.
> 
> Things have been going very well here. Husband is trying. He has shown more desire, and we have been getting along extremely well. I don't know that it is a permanent change, but I'm glad he is putting in some effort.
> 
> I'm very forgetful, and forgiving. So it is going to be hard to remember all the things that I wanted to share with the counselor. Help! What are some of the main points I should bring up? I better read through some of this thread before I go. lol.


In short. You need to know your husband desires you, desires to please you, to all around give a F about you and your happiness. The quantity and quality of sex should be a byproduct of that. He needs to learn he can satisfy you and to not feel like he can't, you just need him to be trying and not giving up. 

Also, some of the negative times when he was taking the attitude of placating you with sex, to get you to shut up about it. Making you feel like all you wanted was sex and that you had a problem. His selfishness in bed. How he was promising more sex after you had kid. Some of his ideas about a future with kids, parents sleeping with the kids and not each other, etc. 

Don't forget to take ownership of your half of the problem and letting things get the way they were even if you were finally trying to change things the last year or so. IMO, it takes two to make a sexless marriage, and two to fix it. Best wishes today!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good luck to you today Curious! I hope you like the therapist and she can help you guys work through your issues.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



northernlights said:


> If it makes you feel better, H and I paid for counseling out of pocket when we were living abroad. Now here in the US it's free, but we spent about $500 overseas. I think sometimes having to pay cash can help you (by which I mean your H) take it seriously. Good luck!!


He refuses to pay for it. I am.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Getting antsy here. Having trouble focusing on work. I want to be there now! lol. 

Also nervous about the drive. I hate big cities. Yikes. 

Keep us in your thoughts tonight. Really hoping the counselor isn't rude, and that she is more helpful and compassionate than the doctor.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I know you'll do great TCW! I bet you'll be WAY more comfortable getting this stuff out today than you would have a year or two ago.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

1. Mismatched sex drives. 
2. Mismatched desire for passion.
3. His propensity to make you feel like there is something wrong with you because you desire sex, passion and intimacy when he does not.
4 his selfishness. 
-Constant blow jobs in the hopes of feeling loved back but never getting that from him.
-Making you feel like his effort into your lea sure was too great to ask.
5 your needs and his lack of interest in meeting them. 
-you need to feel desired
-you need to feel wanted
-you need him to show his passion for you and and interest in loving you without you having to remind, cajole, or toss a fit.
6. His lack of morning wood and your concern about how this might indicate a hormonal issue which might explain why he isn't into sex with you very often.
7 the impossible task of trying to respect his sexual boundaries when those boundaries leave you out in the cold and make you feel unloved, unwanted, undesired, foolish, unattractive....

Is that enough to remember and job your memory?


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Great post, Anon!

I only hope CW sees it in time for the appointment!


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Getting antsy here. Having trouble focusing on work. I want to be there now! lol.
> 
> Also nervous about the drive. I hate big cities. Yikes.
> 
> Keep us in your thoughts tonight. Really hoping the counselor isn't rude, and that she is more helpful and compassionate than the doctor.



I wouldn't worry too much on that one. My bet is that she WON'T be rude, and that she WILL be MUCH more compassionate than the doctor. (I mean, ANYONE would be more compassionate than he was!). Remember, she is trained to delve into these types of situations with couples, and no doubt she's already heard it all. For what its worth, it may be silly, but just going from from her photo I get a vibe that she's going to be good to work with and I bet you'll like her.

And BTW, another issue you will probably want to ensure you discuss at some point is the *resentment* that has arisen, by his own admission, within him toward you as a result of this situation. Resentment is very dangerous and can be highly destructive; it sits there quietly lurking beneath the surface, simmering away. You may have no idea its even there, until one day it explodes; so it has to be properly dealt and not just left unresolved. May not be something you need to bring up today (likely wont even have time in the first session to get to that), but definitely keep it on your list of concerns to address with her at some point in the near future. 

Anyway, relax! I don't think the _therapist_ will be a problem. I'm more concerned that your husband will remain cooperative and remain agreeable to going to future sessions, given that he is so resistant on EVERYTHING. But I'm keeping a good thought for you guys and really hoping that he will continue to play nice


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> 1. Mismatched sex drives.
> 2. Mismatched desire for passion.
> 3. His propensity to make you feel like there is something wrong with you because you desire sex, passion and intimacy when he does not.
> 4 his selfishness.
> -Constant blow jobs in the hopes of feeling loved back but never getting that from him.
> -Making you feel like his effort into your lea sure was too great to ask.
> 5 your needs and his lack of interest in meeting them.
> -you need to feel desired
> -you need to feel wanted
> -you need him to show his passion for you and and interest in loving you without you having to remind, cajole, or toss a fit.
> 6. His lack of morning wood and your concern about how this might indicate a hormonal issue which might explain why he isn't into sex with you very often.
> 7 the impossible task of trying to respect his sexual boundaries when those boundaries leave you out in the cold and make you feel unloved, unwanted, undesired, foolish, unattractive....
> 
> Is that enough to remember and job your memory?


Thank you, thank you!


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He refuses to pay for it. I am.


Oh groan! Not even with joint money? Well there goes that thought!

Good luck tonight anyway.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He refuses to pay for it. I am.


Wow. I can see he really cares...


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW... Keeping my fingers crossed that things went well today at your counseling session 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well the counseling went very well.  She was very nice, and blunt. Just what I like. She did seem a little quirky, lol.

I think she was a little shocked that it was a man being the LD one. She was also a little shocked at how young we were when we started dating, and that we remained virgins. 

She doesn't think I'm a sex crazed at all, and even put me in my place by telling me I'm not allowed to call myself needy. 

Husband also got put in his place. He was put on the spot when she asked him what he was feeling and why when he slaps my hands away if I try to touch him. He didn't really have an answer. Just that he doesn't want to do it, so he doesn't want to let things get too far. He also admitted that I have a 0% chance of success when flirting or trying to put him in the mood.  ouch. Either he is or he isn't. There is no way I can get him to actually enjoy sex if he isn't in the mood, so all those times really were just pity sex. 

I don't want to say she is taking sides, but husband was sent home with quite a bit of homework.  I'm just suppose to encourage him, and work on keeping my resentment in check. We came to the conclusion that I am good at taking care of husband's love needs, but he is content and doesn't see the need to take equally care of mine. So for the next two weeks he is suppose to really try to touch me more often, and he is not suppose to reject me. Instead he is suppose to offer me other options as a compromise. Such as, "I don't want to have sex but we can make out, or do oral on each other, or snuggle, or I'll give you a massage, etc." 

She told him he needs to take care of my needs in someway always, even if it's not full on sex. 

I think it was a real eye opener for him. Several times he said things like, "Yeah. She has told me I needed to do this before, it just didn't occur to me that it was that important."

I think hearing it from someone else was very helpful. His little reality world is crumbling. He isn't mr. perfect anymore, he can't continue to pretend I have unrealistic expectations.

And best of all she did it in a very professional and nice way. So he didn't hate it too much, or feel like she was attacking him. I think we actually made a lot of progress in communicating. I'm excited to go to more sessions.

The only problem is that it was over 3.5 hours of driving for a 45 minute session.  That's quite a haul. I mentioned maybe trying to find someone closer, and husband was like, "no she's good." So I think maybe he enjoyed it as much as I did. 

Anyway. So far he has been trying. He has non-sexually touched me more in the last 12 hours than he had the entire week before. lol.

Too bad it's period week though.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Wow. I can see he really cares...


Yeah no kidding. 

It's just a pouting tactic. Trying to deter me from making him go. 

I don't care. I'll pay. Well worth it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh Curious, I'm so very happy for you!! I checked your thread first thing this morning to see if you had updated yet. I'm thankful the both of you like the counselor. She sounds like she is very knowledgeable. 

3.5 hours travel time is a small price to pay if she can help your husband understand more about women's sexuality (yours) and, hopefully, help you two obtain a more fulfilling sex life!!

Fantastic!!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's GREAT news CW!!! You must feel wonderful to have someone supporting you, making him realize that YOU are not unreasonable! And at the same time, not attacking him. Very smart on her part.

:smthumbup:

3-1/2 hours is a haul, but well worth it if you both like her. I wonder if she would consider giving you a slightly longer appointment since you have such a long drive.

If you plan it right, maybe one of these trips can include a romantic little overnight in that city? That is, when Doc says you are both ready!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, that sounds very encouraging!

Do you feel like you husband fully participated? Was he being as open as anyone might expect for a first time with a therapist? Did you get any sense of him being defensive? Did you get a sense of him saying the right things and nodding at the right time, yet nothing actually sinking in?

When is your next appointment? Two weeks? Do NOT start to hesitate about the difficulties in getting there or even paying for it. Keep telling yourself the time and money spent is a hell of a lot less than troubling than a divorce or staying with the status quo. Those are your only 3 options. Work on it, divorce, or remain relatively miserable. Working on it means time and money. Are you worth it? Hell yes! Is your marriage worth it? Maybe, but your future happiness can not be found by allowing things to continue as they have been.

You should be noticing your husband trying. He may tense when you are affectionate, because that's his "go to" knee jerk reaction. Wait for him to talk himself out of tensing and remembering you need his affection. Give him enough time to correct his response on his own. If he doesn't, don't say anything to remind him. But do back away from him at that point. Show him your hurt and allow him to correct his own behavior.

By the end of the next two weeks you should be seeing a new pattern emerge. If you aren't. Do not sugar coat things at your next appointment.

Take this a step at a time. But do expect to see some serious effort on his part.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> That's GREAT news CW!!! You must feel wonderful to have someone supporting you, making him realize that YOU are not unreasonable! And at the same time, not attacking him. Very smart on her part.
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> 3-1/2 hours is a haul, but well worth it if you both like her. I wonder if she would consider giving you a slightly longer appointment since you have such a long drive.
> 
> If you plan it right, maybe one of these trips can include a romantic little overnight in that city? That is, when Doc says you are both ready!


I wish we could do longer appointments.  We already barely make it to the last appointment of the day (because of husband's work) and she won't stay any later because that's when her babysitter leaves. 

Eventually, every once in a while husband may be able to take off work an hour early, so we can meet for longer. But his job kind of frowns on that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Curious, that sounds very encouraging!
> 
> Do you feel like you husband fully participated? Was he being as open as anyone might expect for a first time with a therapist? Did you get any sense of him being defensive? Did you get a sense of him saying the right things and nodding at the right time, yet nothing actually sinking in?
> 
> When is your next appointment? Two weeks? Do NOT start to hesitate about the difficulties in getting there or even paying for it. Keep telling yourself the time and money spent is a hell of a lot less than troubling than a divorce or staying with the status quo. Those are your only 3 options. Work on it, divorce, or remain relatively miserable. Working on it means time and money. Are you worth it? Hell yes! Is your marriage worth it? Maybe, but your future happiness can not be found by allowing things to continue as they have been.
> 
> You should be noticing your husband trying. He may tense when you are affectionate, because that's his "go to" knee jerk reaction. Wait for him to talk himself out of tensing and remembering you need his affection. Give him enough time to correct his response on his own. If he doesn't, don't say anything to remind him. But do back away from him at that point. Show him your hurt and allow him to correct his own behavior.
> 
> By the end of the next two weeks you should be seeing a new pattern emerge. If you aren't. Do not sugar coat things at your next appointment.
> 
> Take this a step at a time. But do expect to see some serious effort on his part.



I felt he did really great. At first he was a little quiet, but she made him talk.  

He was honest, and I was very pleased. Hopefully it stays that way. 

Yes two weeks. I'd love to do weekly, but riding in the car that far would kill me. I'm very nervous in the car. Especially since I was in a major accident a month ago, in that same town. 

After a few appointments, I may ask her if she would be willing to do skype sessions every once in a while. 

Good advice on giving him time to sort himself out.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I felt he did really great. At first he was a little quiet, but she made him talk.
> 
> *He was honest, and I was very pleased. Hopefully it stays that way*.
> 
> Yes two weeks. I'd love to do weekly, but riding in the car that far would kill me. I'm very nervous in the car. Especially since I was in a major accident a month ago, in that same town.
> 
> After a few appointments, I may ask her if she would be willing to do skype sessions every once in a while.
> 
> Good advice on giving him time to sort himself out.



That's excellent! That's huge even. But the next two weeks and next appointment will be very telling. He probably thought you were going to hear what he has been telling you. Over the next two weeks he is going to have to rethink everything he previously thought. He will either be contrite, or defensive. You will be able to tell the difference. Don't confuse your own relief at being validate by the therapist with his behavior. Be observant.

He is now where near ready for Skype appointments. So don't even suggest it yet.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> That's excellent! That's huge even. But the next two weeks and next appointment will be very telling. He probably thought you were going to hear what he has been telling you. Over the next two weeks he is going to have to rethink everything he previously thought. He will either be contrite, or defensive. You will be able to tell the difference. Don't confuse your own relief at being validate by the therapist with his behavior. Be observant.
> 
> He is no where near ready for Skype appointments. So don't even suggest it yet.


Very true. I will be observant. I'm sure there will be some back sliding after he has some time to think and come up with more excuses. 

Hopefully we will continue moving upwards overall though. 

It was only 45 minutes, so there is a lot more stuff to discuss. I realize one session isn't going to change the world. But I am happy with how it went.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Too bad it's period week though.


Perfect chance for making out or a nice lovely massage for you.

Also if you have to work on not responding from resentment, you have plenty of homework. Not setting off the same old cycle with your response if his initial response is less than perfect can be hard. Believe me I know it can be really hard.

Glad to hear he said "No, she's good". That sounds promising, like he felt he learned something but wasn't attacked.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



the2ofus said:


> Perfect chance for making out or a nice lovely massage for you.
> 
> Also if you have to work on not responding from resentment, you have plenty of homework. Not setting off the same old cycle with your response if his initial response is less than perfect can be hard. Believe me I know it can be really hard.
> 
> Glad to hear he said "No, she's good". That sounds promising, like he felt he learned something but wasn't attacked.


Yes. We did mention that. Both of us agree, we are kind of stuck in loop. I ask, he feels pressured and has a bad attitude, then I get resentful. Then we are both upset and don't have sex for a while. Then we finally have sex, then a couple days later it starts all over again. It will be hard to break free from that.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I would just like to take a moment and commend you on how you have taken such active steps in trying to improve your marriage and sex life. It is refreshing to see someone as young as yourself take their marriage so seriously and take proactive steps to improve it!! You are doing everything you can to make your marriage better. Hopefully, your husband will eventually step up and put in his fair share too! I really do admire your determination. You deserve a great marriage and I hope and pray that you eventually achieve it!! Great job!!


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just another WTG from me CW.  If ya'll make it through this successfully, it would be really interesting to hear his narrative of the events someday. It's always powerful to read peoples stories when they've had that "getting it" moment.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Glad your session was a good one. Usually the first session is more of a meet and greet and explain the rules. But I am glad that things came out, and that you feel better.

I am glad that she gave you a lot of support. We try to give you a lot of support here. However it really feels different when you have a living human being that you respect telling you that you are not needy and that your desires are normal.

Sorry that the drive is long and the session is short. I have similar troubles, but not quite as bad as you. I look at it though as a small price to pay to improve my marriage.

I hope he works hard and improves things for the two of you. Stay committed and work hard.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I am glad that she gave you a lot of support. We try to give you a lot of support here. However it really feels different when you have a living human being that you respect telling you that you are not needy and that your desires are normal.


Another really important difference is that_ husband _is present to hear it, from an objective third party professional. That's got to be a wake up pill for him. HE really needs to be hearing this. Counsellor sounds great - the perfect match for this situation.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Another really important difference is that_ husband _is present to hear it, from an objective third party professional. That's got to be a wake up pill for him. HE really needs to be hearing this. Counsellor sounds great - the perfect match for this situation.


:iagree:

He was never taught about sex, or women. He has nothing to compare me to. 

So this is exactly what he needed to realize that I'm not being unreasonable. 

He needs some guidance and some knowledge from an outside party.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> He was never taught about sex, or women. He has nothing to compare me to.
> 
> So this is exactly what he needed to realize that I'm not being unreasonable.
> 
> He needs some guidance and some knowledge from an outside party.


TCW, does he have any dude friends that he does dude stuff with? Every time I hear you describe your husband, I envision someone effiminate. When is the last time he got dirty and broke stuff with some of his buddies?


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

I don't recall getting dirty and breaking stuff thirty or forty years ago... My dad (army officer) and brother (engineer) did 

Translation: if his immediate family male role models aren't up to today's standards he may need to work that angle during IC or MC.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*The fact that he recognized the therapist was really good and wants to stick with her even though it's a long drive: THAT IS A HUGE SHOW OF GOOD FAITH BY C2.
*




TheCuriousWife said:


> Well the counseling went very well.  She was very nice, and blunt. Just what I like. She did seem a little quirky, lol.
> 
> I think she was a little shocked that it was a man being the LD one. She was also a little shocked at how young we were when we started dating, and that we remained virgins.
> 
> She doesn't think I'm a sex crazed at all, and even put me in my place by telling me I'm not allowed to call myself needy.
> 
> Husband also got put in his place. He was put on the spot when she asked him what he was feeling and why when he slaps my hands away if I try to touch him. He didn't really have an answer. Just that he doesn't want to do it, so he doesn't want to let things get too far. He also admitted that I have a 0% chance of success when flirting or trying to put him in the mood.  ouch. Either he is or he isn't. There is no way I can get him to actually enjoy sex if he isn't in the mood, so all those times really were just pity sex.
> 
> I don't want to say she is taking sides, but husband was sent home with quite a bit of homework.  I'm just suppose to encourage him, and work on keeping my resentment in check. We came to the conclusion that I am good at taking care of husband's love needs, but he is content and doesn't see the need to take equally care of mine. So for the next two weeks he is suppose to really try to touch me more often, and he is not suppose to reject me. Instead he is suppose to offer me other options as a compromise. Such as, "I don't want to have sex but we can make out, or do oral on each other, or snuggle, or I'll give you a massage, etc."
> 
> She told him he needs to take care of my needs in someway always, even if it's not full on sex.
> 
> I think it was a real eye opener for him. Several times he said things like, "Yeah. She has told me I needed to do this before, it just didn't occur to me that it was that important."
> 
> I think hearing it from someone else was very helpful. His little reality world is crumbling. He isn't mr. perfect anymore, he can't continue to pretend I have unrealistic expectations.
> 
> And best of all she did it in a very professional and nice way. So he didn't hate it too much, or feel like she was attacking him. I think we actually made a lot of progress in communicating. I'm excited to go to more sessions.
> 
> The only problem is that it was over 3.5 hours of driving for a 45 minute session.  That's quite a haul. I mentioned maybe trying to find someone closer, and husband was like, "no she's good." So I think maybe he enjoyed it as much as I did.
> 
> Anyway. So far he has been trying. He has non-sexually touched me more in the last 12 hours than he had the entire week before. lol.
> 
> Too bad it's period week though.


----------



## larry.gray

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The more you talk about yourself TCW, the more you seem like my daughter. She too intends to remain a virgin until marriage. 

I sure hope she doesn't end up in the same situation. Given both my wife and I are quite HD, I'm sure once she starts she's likely to match us. The worry would be that the guy she's into doesn't keep up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



farsidejunky said:


> TCW, does he have any dude friends that he does dude stuff with? Every time I hear you describe your husband, I envision someone effiminate. When is the last time he got dirty and broke stuff with some of his buddies?


I think I broadcast him wrong. 

He is very manly. He's strong, and goes camping, fishing, etc. Last night he changed the oil and rotated the tires on his car. He works in a gun store. 

So he isn't a prissy boy, or anything like that. He is very outdoorsy, and works out, he likes getting dirty. He isn't feminine at all. Definitely a mans man. 

He is the typical man, except about sex... 

His dad is a wonderful husband, and just a great person in general, so he did have a good role model on how to respect people and be kind to every one. His dad is the most selfless person I know.

But he was never taught anything sexual, at all. 

For example, his best friend has been dumped by 3 girlfriends for moving too slow. The last one he dated over a year and they rarely even held hands. :scratchhead: Apparently no one had the sex talk with him either. lol. 

That is the person he hangs out the most with. So not exactly a good example.

I'm guessing it's from our conservative upbringing. While neither of our families were too conservative, all of our friends and peers were. 

That said, we do have several more friends who have normal relationships now that we are older, that are touchy feely, etc. Most of them live across the country though.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So far so good...

He has really been trying to go out of his way to touch me more. I'm loving it.

He also has not smacked my hand away when I touch him. 

I guess the counseling calling him out about it, informed him how mean that is.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He has really been trying to go out of his way to touch me more. I'm loving it.


:smthumbup:


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey Curious! How are things going? Is your husband still putting forth an effort to improve things? Do you have a another counselling session this week?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well on the touching font, things are going good. He has also been very sweet to me. He even washed dishes yesterday!

On the sex side, eh. But not really his fault.

I had my period for a week, had unsuccessful sex because I was too wet, then had good sex once. Then a couple days ago he had a really bad headache. He tried to have sex anyway, despite my protests. Because he said he didn't want to make me wait, and half way through he had to stop because he was hurting. That was kind of frustrating/disappointing. But it was not really his fault, so I tried to not let myself get upset. Of course I felt horrible that he tried to suffer through it, because he felt pressured. 

Overall he has really been trying. But I won't lie. The sex is still routine and very unexciting. That is a whole separate issue. I don't feel sexy, and most of our sex is fumbling around, trying to find positions where he gets enough stimulation. I'm always worrying, am I too loose, am I too wet, am I crushing him, is he bored, etc. 

So overall, his mood is better, the sex is not. 

We have a counseling appointment tomorrow.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I don't think men believe there is such a thing as a woman that is "too wet."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, I don't think men believe there is such a thing as a woman that is "too wet."


My man does. Especially when he keeps loosing his erection over and over because there is not enough friction.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Maybe my husband is "different" then. The wetter and more aroused I become, the more turned on he gets.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Maybe my husband is "different" then. The wetter and more aroused I become, the more turned on he gets.


Things like that don't seem to affect him in an arousing way. If anything I am embarrassed. He doesn't act disgusted, but he will say something like, "geez you are wet already?" Not necessarily in a bad tone, but I take it that way. Previous negative comments about smell, taste, etc are hard to overcome.

Our sex is very goal oriented, and very straight to the point. I get stimulation to orgasm, then it's quickly his turn to thrust in whatever position he wants and be done in about 2 minutes. 

There is a lot of changing positions and moving to keep him erect while he is stimulating me. Not much if any of raw passion or desire. Mostly just a means to an end. It feels very empty.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, your husband has so very much to learn about the female body. You have absolutely no reason to be embarrassed. Your body is doing what it's supposed to - I'm sure you don't have anymore moisture than any other female that becomes aroused. Shoot, I can get wet just "thinking" about my husband. He loves it!! If I tell him when that happens - it's on!! He is instantaneously ready to go.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Things like that don't seem to affect him in an arousing way. If anything I am embarrassed. He doesn't act disgusted, but he will say something like, "geez you are wet already?" Not necessarily in a bad tone, but I take it that way. Previous negative comments about smell, taste, etc are hard to overcome.
> 
> Our sex is very goal oriented, and very straight to the point. I get stimulation to orgasm, then it's quickly his turn to thrust in whatever position he wants and be done in about 2 minutes.
> 
> There is a lot of changing positions and moving to keep him erect while he is stimulating me. Not much if any of raw passion or desire. Mostly just a means to an end. It feels very empty.


I'm a big believer in "wetter is better". However, I have heard of situations where some women produce such large amounts of natural lubrication that it makes things feel too slick. It never bothered me, but I suppose everyone is different.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Part of me wishes I could experience "normal" passionate sex, with an experienced partner just once. I don't intend on ever cheating of course. But it is a fantasy to have a take charge, experienced and giving man ravage me. I'm not sure my husband will ever fit that bill. 

How does a man come to learn these things? How is my husband so out of the loop? 

Is it bad that I sometimes wish he had another woman before me would would have put him in his place and taught him a thing or two? I'm just as naive and un-experienced as him, so I'm not much help teaching him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm a big believer in "wetter is better". However, I have heard of situations where some women produce such large amounts of natural lubrication that it makes things feel too slick. It never bothered me, but I suppose everyone is different.


It doesn't happen too often, and it really doesn't seem that related to my arousal. Mostly just the time of the month. 

I'm not sure that it's any more than any other woman. But with my husband's ED issues, it certainly doesn't help.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Part of me wishes I could experience "normal" passionate sex, with an experienced partner just once. I don't intend on ever cheating of course. But it is a fantasy to have a take charge, experienced and giving man ravage me. I'm not sure my husband will ever fit that bill.
> 
> How does a man come to learn these things? How is my husband so out of the loop?
> 
> Is it bad that I sometimes wish he had another woman before me would would have put him in his place and taught him a thing or two? I'm just as naive and un-experienced as him, so I'm not much help teaching him.


He learns by you telling him what you like and don't like, trying different things to find out what works best. Don't be shy to tell him what feels good vs what does not.  Maybe he can read up on some things, too. There is a lot of info online he can look at. 

I'm inexperienced too, being a virgin when I met my husband, but we've learned a lot together. Trial and error. Even if your husband was experienced, what the previous woman liked could be very different from what you like. You just have to keep trying new things and figuring things out as you go. If he touches you "this" way vs that, what feels better. Make sure to communicate that.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Our sex is very goal oriented, and very straight to the point. I get stimulation to orgasm, then it's quickly his turn to thrust in whatever position he wants and be done in about 2 minutes.
> 
> There is a lot of changing positions and moving to keep him erect while he is stimulating me. Not much if any of raw passion or desire. Mostly just a means to an end. *It feels very empty.*






karole said:


> Curious, your husband has so very much to learn about the female body.


Oh, so true, SO TRUE!!



TheCuriousWife said:


> Part of me wishes I could experience "normal" passionate sex, with an experienced partner just once.


CW, I wish the very same for you. For you to know what it truly feels to be passionately made love to by a man who thinks the sun rises and sets on YOU.



TheCuriousWife said:


> How does a man come to learn these things? How is my husband so out of the loop?


A man learns these things by REALLY paying attention to a woman's response to his actions. Each experience is stored in his sexual "memory", thus he accumulates his own personal bag of tricks . Men who are great lovers truly love to PLEASE women. Not just have sex for sex's sake. Not because it's on a "to-do" list. They simply LOVE women, they LOVE women's bodies, and they desire to please women.



TheCuriousWife said:


> Is it bad that I sometimes wish he had another woman before me would would have put him in his place and taught him a thing or two?


No, it's not bad. Most men have had multiple lovers, thus a rich source of learning and knowledge to draw upon, improve upon, and carry over to their next relationship.

Those that don't have multiple partners (but are still great lovers) are paying particular attention to their partner's cues and responses... not "working so hard" to accomplish a goal.

Bottom line... sex should not be "work". It's an unwinding, a release, an exploration, a coming-together, a time to learn your partner's body, an animal bonding. A time to say through pure body language: "I am yours. And you are mine."


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> *Part of me wishes I could experience "normal" passionate sex, with an experienced partner just once. I don't intend on ever cheating of course. But it is a fantasy to have a take charge, experienced and giving man ravage me. I'm not sure my husband will ever fit that bill. *
> 
> How does a man come to learn these things? How is my husband so out of the loop?
> 
> Is it bad that I sometimes wish he had another woman before me would would have put him in his place and taught him a thing or two? I'm just as naive and un-experienced as him, so I'm not much help teaching him.


No offense intended, but this has red flags all over it. IMHO, this and similar types of statements are the single biggest reason why an affair happens in an otherwise "stable" marriage. This is a unique opportunity to see the very early stages of a spouse who will be at risk of cheating in the future. I know you stated that you are not looking to cheat and that your values won't allow you to. I'll also said that many cheaters before you said similar things. You can generalize this statement to be gender neutral to read along the lines of "my spouse cannot bridge the gap that I see in this marriage, and I don't think that he/she will ever be able to do so". 

TCW, I apologize if this offends you. But for some reason, this statement strikes me as a real downer. Far be it from me to second guess your progress. What do I know, I'm a stranger who hasn't really experienced what you are going thru - at least not close to the extent that you have anyways. But it has that ring that while your words are stating that you feel encouraged and are excited about the therapy, you have the expectation that your husband will never measure up to what you want no matter what he does. Because of that, I think you are "at risk" for an affair if you stay in this marriage beyond the point where you know that you will never get out the marriage what you expect/need. 

Be careful.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



> *TheCuriousWife said* : *There is a lot of changing positions and moving to keep him erect while he is stimulating me. Not much if any of raw passion or desire. Mostly just a means to an end. It feels very empty*.


 I always wonder with those who lack desire & Passion in Love, in sex.. what IS he passionate about ??.. what causes him excitement / enthusiasm ...in his daily life .. anything?? 



TheCuriousWife said:


> Being rejected is low on the list. I told him it's not one thing. It's everyday, *feeling undesired*. I can walk around naked and he wouldn't even look up. I can get in the shower and he will turn away from me. It doesn't matter what I wear, what I do, I feel like I am completely unarousing to him. I want my husband to get excited at the thought of having sex with me, not dread it.


CuriousWife... *(((HUGS)))*.. you've really stood by your husband here.... against what many of us would probably have walked away from.. I haven't read all of these pages spanning 2 years.. 

Read enough to get a handle on what you've had to deal with.. his upbringing -with his parents not sleeping in the same room.. sounds like* TOUCH* is at the bottom of his love languages, almost like he doesn't need it... things *Intheory* said in a post sounded he may be wanting /hinting more "*Bad girl*" out of you....get those heels out! a tight dress.....but this does not come natural FOR YOU..... and you long for a man to TAKE YOU...that feeling of unrestrained passion ...(we all love some of that!)..

Even with whatever upbringing your H had or what he's been taught or not taught about sex.. generally a healthy Testosterone drive -so much of that goes out the window.. hormones take over... he would still have an intense craving -instinctively to BE with, feel, and lust after women... he has no interest in porn - ever ?? Still makes me wonder if what *Just fabulous* said in Post #3457 ...if there could be any truth to it.. has he had any Hormonal testing ??

Pituitary Adenomas  taken from this page...



> *Symptoms related to pituitary insufficiency*:
> When the tumor compresses the normal pituitary gland, it can cause it to fail leading to pituitary insufficiency (hypopituitarism). The symptoms will depend upon which hormone is involved.
> 
> Reduction of sex hormones, luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH).
> In men, this can lead to a low testosterone level, causing decreased sexual drive and impotence.


As women... we are the Objects of men's desire, seems a law of nature to me....to not feel this with our husbands ...it is emotionally crushing...I so hear you... it's what puts the jingle in our step, fuels our feminine confidence, makes us feel ALIVE, colors our world, that our man want us... this makes us feel deeply loved/ cherished ...as another said. . "it gives life it's richness"...we crave these in our lover...as we feel it towards them... as it should BE. 

Sounds you have found an AWESOME therapist..:smthumbup: ... but THAT drive to see her - I wonder how long you can do this ! I think I'd ask if she could allow some Internet (Skyping type) sessions.... just a thought. 



intheory said:


> He's alluded to wanting to see you wear make-up. I believe he told you that you might get more action if you wore it.
> 
> Which bewildered you, 'cause he always claims he doesn't like "painted" women.
> 
> But no guy wants/cares about his "sister" looking sultry in make-up. *Makeup looks sexy.
> 
> He likes you in heels, short skirts and with a little cleavage showing. [You were dressed up that way to go to a wedding.]
> 
> Then the fantasy he shared with you about wanting to see you strip.*
> 
> It seems that in his own (somewhat fumbling, tactless) way; that he is communicating that he doesn't want a "sister" to have sex with. Over and over again,* I've had the feeling that he needs you to be "slùtty".* Something as far from a sister as possible.* To me that explains the mechanical quality of the sex that you guys are sometimes having. He's not getting the right kind of "fuel", for his drive.*


 YOU can do some homework HERE... add some novelty to your routine, some element of SURPRISE... every little suggestion he speaks.. pay close attention..play on it.. 

Myself & H has only been with each other also... I see you feel if ONLY he had more experience.. but it's not always that simple... so true what was said here...



happy as a clam said:


> :
> *A man learns these things by REALLY paying attention to a woman's response to his actions. Each experience is stored in his sexual "memory", thus he accumulates his own personal bag of tricks . Men who are great lovers truly love to PLEASE women. Not just have sex for sex's sake. Not because it's on a "to-do" list. They simply LOVE women, they LOVE women's bodies, and they desire to please women*.


 How to get your husband to BE THIS.... if only we had the answers....I so hope this Therapist can Unlock what has been holding him back... Desire is reaching for Pleasure...this is all started in the dopamine centers of the brain ...*he's not on any MEDICATIONS to interfere with this , is he ?* 

We had some "taboo" things we didn't really delve into in our beginnings ...looking back.. I have thought.. "what was wrong with us?"..... we just never cared as we were emotionally/ physically satisfied....we didn't even talk about sex for 19 yrs.. which sounds kinda nuts. 

Looking through our experience..I've always felt so much of this is pure instinct...His reaching.. my receptiveness...feeling lost in each other....add the loins being on fire.... always a matter of -have to keep stopping...so we could allow it to last a little longer.. 

My Husband's only learning was playboy magazines, he told me he read the articles too..

Just saying.... there are experienced partners but if they are selfish..and not tuned into the pleasure of the other..(or his lacking the proper proportion of hormones- this drives much of our behavior)... I don't think all that much experience is going to matter ...not to mention each woman is so different in what "does it" for us too..



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not sure that he sees me as a sister, but I can agree that he sees me as the fun/hang out with buddy rather than a sexual being.
> 
> *I will admit, I'm not very sexual. Acting or looking. I look about 12, I'm usually in jeans and a t shirt, and smell like animals. lol.
> 
> Although I try to act sexy, most times I fail miserably and I end up looking like an idiot. Which we both laugh at.*
> 
> But I thought that is what he liked about me. He always told me he was attracted to me because I hung out with the guys, and wasn't into the girly things.
> 
> I do make an effort to dress nicely, if we are going somewhere. But in our neck of the woods, nicer occasions are few and far in between.


 I don't know about you.. but when we get ourselves dolled up a bit.. slip into something sexy...try cooking your husband breakfast in some heels & lingerie.. 

Need to up your flirting skills.. seems awfully silly to read a book, but it may give a few ideas to play on...anything you want to improve upon.. it's out there.. 

Dirty Talk: Hot, Sexy Phrases That Will Both Get You in the Mood to Make Sex More Sizzling (Couple Intimacy and Relationship Advice) 

When I was trying to fuel my H's fire for more sex.. I read about positions online/ introducing new ones to try...buying book after book to refine my skills & enhance our pleasure...learned about some role play...more enticing, flirting, teasing...tried some erotic massage....planned Romantic vacations...

I went on a lingerie kick... we had some erotic photo sessions...rented porn for a time... outside sex, trampoline sex ...read reviews & picked up some stuff on Adam & Eve  , bought some Sex furniture (Click here)...I went a little NUTS! ... Almost bought a sex swing - but thought the kids might find it ..

So many Sex websites/ spicing aids out there to give you ideas ..(sorry for the overload!)..for some references.. 



> The Good Girl's Guide to Bad Girl Sex: An Indispensible Guide to Pleasure & Seduction
> 
> The Good Girl's Guide to Great Sex: (And You Thought Bad Girls Have All the Fun):
> 
> 
> Erotic Strip Dance DVD - Loving Sex DVD Series This is about learning how to do erotic dancing for your husband....each step.. then the fireworks in the end.... a slow sensual passionate making love scene....
> 
> 365 Sex Thrills: Positions, Tricks and Techniques for an Erotic Year:
> 
> Sex Info 101 website - Granddaddy list of Sexual Positions
> 
> Complete Idiots Guide to Amazing Sex ....very informative for new lovers -covers it all!
> 
> Sheet Music - Uncovering the secrets of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage  ....Excellent book for Christians.
> 
> When Your Sex Drives Don't Match: Discover Your Libido Types to Create a Mutually Satisfying Sex Life  ..... ...
> 
> Identifying Your Libido Type
> 
> 
> Passionista: The Empowered Woman's Guide to Pleasuring a Man .....every wife should read this!
> 
> She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman  ....every husband should read this!
> 
> Discover Your Lover Board Game ....might help break some inhibitions reading cards & playing a game


Your determination to STICK THIS OUT.. not giving up on him ...I really Hope.. for you both.. this is all going to work out..


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

SA, I still have trampoline sex on my bucket list!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> SA, I still have trampoline sex on my bucket list!


Funny story....we live out in the middle of nowhere... no neighbors, can't see the road ....Kids in school, beautiful day.. freedom!...

Some bouncing going on... suddenly we hear voices!!... WHAT [email protected]#$....a couple "Gas well" surveyors were walking towards us......couldn't believe it.. ..we had a sheet anyway.. but oh my.. they came so close .... as they worked their way further back to the woods.....we darted for the door...

My husband likes to tell this story (the guys at work-he couldn't resist) ...but he purposely leaves out the sheet in that telling... them seeing our naked butts running to the house...:rofl:

A little rush of being "seen"... So be careful with that Trampoline moment !!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> No offense intended, but this has red flags all over it. IMHO, this and similar types of statements are the single biggest reason why an affair happens in an otherwise "stable" marriage. This is a unique opportunity to see the very early stages of a spouse who will be at risk of cheating in the future. I know you stated that you are not looking to cheat and that your values won't allow you to. I'll also said that many cheaters before you said similar things. You can generalize this statement to be gender neutral to read along the lines of "my spouse cannot bridge the gap that I see in this marriage, and I don't think that he/she will ever be able to do so".
> 
> TCW, I apologize if this offends you. But for some reason, this statement strikes me as a real downer. Far be it from me to second guess your progress. What do I know, I'm a stranger who hasn't really experienced what you are going thru - at least not close to the extent that you have anyways. But it has that ring that while your words are stating that you feel encouraged and are excited about the therapy, you have the expectation that your husband will never measure up to what you want no matter what he does. Because of that, I think you are "at risk" for an affair if you stay in this marriage beyond the point where you know that you will never get out the marriage what you expect/need.
> 
> Be careful.



I didn't mean that I would cheat.

I meant that my marriage may end in divorce.

Also, I wouldn't really want him to be with another woman before me. Deep down, I'm proud and happy that we were each others first. I just get frustrated sometimes at his lack of knowledge and unwillingness to learn. I KNOW that having more lovers does not necessarily make you a better lover. I was just spitting steam.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



SimplyAmorous said:


> I always wonder with those who lack desire & Passion in Love, in sex.. what IS he passionate about ??.. what causes him excitement / enthusiasm ...in his daily life .. anything??
> 
> 
> CuriousWife... *(((HUGS)))*.. you've really stood by your husband here.... against what many of us would probably have walked away from.. I haven't read all of these pages spanning 2 years..
> 
> Read enough to get a handle on what you've had to deal with.. his upbringing -with his parents not sleeping in the same room.. sounds like* TOUCH* is at the bottom of his love languages, almost like he doesn't need it... things *Intheory* said in a post sounded he may be wanting /hinting more "*Bad girl*" out of you....get those heels out! a tight dress.....but this does not come natural FOR YOU..... and you long for a man to TAKE YOU...that feeling of unrestrained passion ...(we all love some of that!)..
> 
> Even with whatever upbringing your H had or what he's been taught or not taught about sex.. generally a healthy Testosterone drive -so much of that goes out the window.. hormones take over... he would still have an intense craving -instinctively to BE with, feel, and lust after women... he has no interest in porn - ever ?? Still makes me wonder if what *Just fabulous* said in Post #3457 ...if there could be any truth to it.. has he had any Hormonal testing ??
> 
> Pituitary Adenomas  taken from this page...
> 
> 
> 
> As women... we are the Objects of men's desire, seems a law of nature to me....to not feel this with our husbands ...it is emotionally crushing...I so hear you... it's what puts the jingle in our step, fuels our feminine confidence, makes us feel ALIVE, colors our world, that our man want us... this makes us feel deeply loved/ cherished ...as another said. . "it gives life it's richness"...we crave these in our lover...as we feel it towards them... as it should BE.
> 
> Sounds you have found an AWESOME therapist..:smthumbup: ... but THAT drive to see her - I wonder how long you can do this ! I think I'd ask if she could allow some Internet (Skyping type) sessions.... just a thought.
> 
> YOU can do some homework HERE... add some novelty to your routine, some element of SURPRISE... every little suggestion he speaks.. pay close attention..play on it..
> 
> Myself & H has only been with each other also... I see you feel if ONLY he had more experience.. but it's not always that simple... so true what was said here...
> 
> How to get your husband to BE THIS.... if only we had the answers....I so hope this Therapist can Unlock what has been holding him back... Desire is reaching for Pleasure...this is all started in the dopamine centers of the brain ...*he's not on any MEDICATIONS to interfere with this , is he ?*
> 
> We had some "taboo" things we didn't really delve into in our beginnings ...looking back.. I have thought.. "what was wrong with us?"..... we just never cared as we were emotionally/ physically satisfied....we didn't even talk about sex for 19 yrs.. which sounds kinda nuts.
> 
> Looking through our experience..I've always felt so much of this is pure instinct...His reaching.. my receptiveness...feeling lost in each other....add the loins being on fire.... always a matter of -have to keep stopping...so we could allow it to last a little longer..
> 
> My Husband's only learning was playboy magazines, he told me he read the articles too..
> 
> Just saying.... there are experienced partners but if they are selfish..and not tuned into the pleasure of the other..(or his lacking the proper proportion of hormones- this drives much of our behavior)... I don't think all that much experience is going to matter ...not to mention each woman is so different in what "does it" for us too..
> 
> I don't know about you.. but when we get ourselves dolled up a bit.. slip into something sexy...try cooking your husband breakfast in some heels & lingerie..
> 
> Need to up your flirting skills.. seems awfully silly to read a book, but it may give a few ideas to play on...anything you want to improve upon.. it's out there..
> 
> Dirty Talk: Hot, Sexy Phrases That Will Both Get You in the Mood to Make Sex More Sizzling (Couple Intimacy and Relationship Advice)
> 
> When I was trying to fuel my H's fire for more sex.. I read about positions online/ introducing new ones to try...buying book after book to refine my skills & enhance our pleasure...learned about some role play...more enticing, flirting, teasing...tried some erotic massage....planned Romantic vacations...
> 
> I went on a lingerie kick... we had some erotic photo sessions...rented porn for a time... outside sex, trampoline sex ...read reviews & picked up some stuff on Adam & Eve  , bought some Sex furniture (Click here)...I went a little NUTS! ... Almost bought a sex swing - but thought the kids might find it ..
> 
> So many Sex websites/ spicing aids out there to give you ideas ..(sorry for the overload!)..for some references..
> 
> 
> 
> Your determination to STICK THIS OUT.. not giving up on him ...I really Hope.. for you both.. this is all going to work out..



You are right. It's not only his fault that our sex is routine and boring. It takes two, and I certainly contribute. I've read book after book, but he usually scoffs at anything I try, or makes inadvertently makes me feel bad.

It's hard to put yourself out there, when your husband seems unamused by anything you do. 

I'll keep trying! He is doing better at listening to what I tell him, so maybe my efforts won't be in vain anymore. Thanks for all the resources.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When is your next counseling session?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And after my debbie downer post we had some genuinely good sex...

lol. So I'm feeling much better. 

I'm not sure what to tell the therapist. We were suppose to work on him being more open to the idea of sex and not to reject me. But we've only had sex 3 times since we've seen her just due to situations out of control. So that definitely wasn't pushing his limits. I didn't even initiate and give him the chance to reject me.


I did ask for a 2nd orgasm last night, and he turned me down. Does that count? lol


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> When is your next counseling session?


This evening.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And after my debbie downer post we had some genuinely good sex...
> 
> lol. So I'm feeling much better.
> 
> I'm not sure what to tell the therapist. We were suppose to work on him being more open to the idea of sex and not to reject me. But we've only had sex 3 times since we've seen her just due to situations out of control. So that definitely wasn't pushing his limits. I didn't even initiate and give him the chance to reject me.
> 
> 
> *I did ask for a 2nd orgasm last night, and he turned me down. Does that count? lol*



WTF!!!!!!

Why?

Hell yes that counts!

Your husband is an ignorant, foolish, selfish, stupid, little boy!

You damn well better tell the therapist he turned you down for a second orgasm. And you damn well better tell her you feel that he scoffs at your attempts to bring new knowledge into your sex lives. And you better damn well tell the therapist you feel judged and rejected when you try. And better damn well tell her you feel sexually shut down because his behavior communicates very clearly that he doesn't value your sexuality because it challenges his sexuality.

IOW, he MUST put down your sexuality because if he admits that what you contribute and what you want are valid, than he must also admit HIS failings as a husband/lover. And he couldn't possibly do that!

It's classic minimizing/invalidating.

Don't ever let him get away with that! EVER!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think you should bring up to the therapist the fact that your husband doesn't do anything to "try" to improve your sex life - won't read books, research on-line, try new things, etc. and then tries to make you feel bad if you do those things. 

Read Anon's post above several times. She's right-on!!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> WTF!!!!!!
> 
> Why?
> 
> Hell yes that counts!
> 
> Your husband is an ignorant, foolish, selfish, stupid, little boy!
> 
> You damn well better tell the therapist he turned you down for a second orgasm. And you damn well better tell her you feel that he scoffs at your attempts to bring new knowledge into your sex lives. And you better damn well tell the therapist you feel judged and rejected when you try. And better damn well tell her you feel sexually shut down because his behavior communicates very clearly that he doesn't value your sexuality because it challenges his sexuality.
> 
> IOW, he MUST put down your sexuality because if he admits that what you contribute and what you want are valid, than he must also admit HIS failings as a husband/lover. And he couldn't possibly do that!
> 
> It's classic minimizing/invalidating.
> 
> Don't ever let him get away with that! EVER!


 You crack me up.

I'll make sure I tell her.

Last night's conversation went like this, "Want to go for round two?'" "I have nothing left." "I'd like to go for round two." "I don't have it in me." "I'm still horny." "I'm sorry." ...

Despite him not reading the 5 love languages like the counselor told him, and turning me down last night, he has really done very well with touching me more, and trying to make me feel more loved. When sex has been mentioned he has had a much better attitude as well. No whining or feet dragging. 

Obviously there is still a lot more to work on. But progress is progress.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Now you got me mad Anon! lol.

It took a lot of courage last night to ask for a second orgasm, (I don't usually, because I feel like a pain) and then he brushed me off. Those are exactly the kind of things that make me self conscious about myself. Because to me that says that I'm not worth the extra few minutes, that I'm boring, and that he doesn't care enough to want to make me happy.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Does the therapist know that he routinely loses his erection when he is actively engaged in making you feel good?

This is vital.

Why does this happen?

Does he feel resentment that he has to put effort into pleasing you sexually?

Does he not feel enjoyment that he is making you feel good?

Is he repulsed by what he is doing? Is he not turned on by your body?

IMO, this is the key to understanding what his deal is.

Personally, I would feel utterly demoralized by this. What his body is communicating is that your body just doesn't do it for him. That touching you and making you feel good is not something he enjoys. That he has to concentrate on what to do and how to do it, which means he isn't feeling the sexually charged atmosphere and instead is feeling like he is taking an oral exam... or let's hope it's an oral exam!

I think your H married the wrong person for him. He married his best friend. He did not marry his lover. This is not against you, there is nothing wrong with you. But there is something wrong when touching your wife and bring her to orgasm over and over is seen as a lopsided display of effort.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Now you got me mad Anon! lol.
> 
> It took a lot of courage last night to ask for a second orgasm, (I don't usually, because I feel like a pain) and then he brushed me off. Those are exactly the kind of things that make me self conscious about myself. Because to me that says that I'm not worth the extra few minutes, that I'm boring, and that he doesn't care enough to want to make me happy.


Good! You should be angry! He didn't need an erection to bring you off again. He only needed hands and or mouth combined with enthusiasm.

Tell this to your therapist!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Does the therapist know that he routinely loses his erection when he is actively engaged in making you feel good?
> 
> This is vital.
> 
> Why does this happen?
> 
> Does he feel resentment that he has to put effort into pleasing you sexually?
> 
> Does he not feel enjoyment that he is making you feel good?
> 
> Is he repulsed by what he is doing? Is he not turned on by your body?
> 
> IMO, this is the key to understanding what his deal is.
> 
> Personally, I would feel utterly demoralized by this. What his body is communicating is that your body just doesn't do it for him. That touching you and making you feel good is not something he enjoys. That he has to concentrate on what to do and how to do it, which means he isn't feeling the sexually charged atmosphere and instead is feeling like he is taking an oral exam... or let's hope it's an oral exam!
> 
> I think your H married the wrong person for him. He married his best friend. He did not marry his lover. This is not against you, there is nothing wrong with you. But there is something wrong when touching your wife and bring her to orgasm over and over is seen as a lopsided display of effort.


She doesn't know that yet. We didn't get that far. 

And yes, those are the thoughts that are running through my head. 

Any oral exams he gets are very short... lol. Although they are getting more frequent they don't last more than a couple minutes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Good! You should be angry! He didn't need an erection to bring you off again. He only needed hands and or mouth combined with enthusiasm.
> 
> Tell this to your therapist!


That's the problem. He had no more enthusiasm.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, put it all out there for the therapist - don't hold anything back.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Now you got me mad Anon! lol.
> 
> It took a lot of courage last night to ask for a second orgasm, (I don't usually, because I feel like a pain) and then he brushed me off. Those are exactly the kind of things that make me self conscious about myself. Because to me that says that I'm not worth the extra few minutes, that I'm boring, and that he doesn't care enough to want to make me happy.


Quick question - would you have been happy if your H would have laid you down on the bed fully nude and he would have used his hands to get you off for a 2nd orgasm while he was passionately kissing you on your lips, all over your neck and chest and paying attention to your breasts with his mouth - all with enthusiasm? If so, then he has no one to blame but himself if he's not willing to spend a few moments satisfying you. 

OTOH, if you would have required full on PIV for your round 2 then that's a different issue altogether. If he was spent, then he was spent and you would need to come to terms with that.

Apologize if I was too graphic, but trying to see if he could have done something to satisfy you that would not have involved him having to get his pecker rigid again.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Quick question - would you have been happy if your H would have laid you down on the bed fully nude and he would have used his hands to get you off for a 2nd orgasm while he was passionately kissing you on your lips, all over your neck and chest and paying attention to your breasts with his mouth - all with enthusiasm? If so, then he has no one to blame but himself if he's not willing to spend a few moments satisfying you.
> 
> OTOH, if you would have required full on PIV for your round 2 then that's a different issue altogether. If he was spent, then he was spent and you would need to come to terms with that.
> 
> Apologize if I was too graphic, but trying to see if he could have done something to satisfy you that would not have involved him having to get his pecker rigid again.


my thoughts exactly. would have to give him a pass on not being able to go for round two. especially at my age, its harder 
(pun?) to go for round two (although i would have tried if she really wanted it). But you do have your hands and mouth after all. 

besides...........it's just plain fun!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Quick question - would you have been happy if your H would have laid you down on the bed fully nude and he would have used his hands to get you off for a 2nd orgasm while he was passionately kissing you on your lips, all over your neck and chest and paying attention to your breasts with his mouth - all with enthusiasm? If so, then he has no one to blame but himself if he's not willing to spend a few moments satisfying you.
> 
> OTOH, if you would have required full on PIV for your round 2 then that's a different issue altogether. If he was spent, then he was spent and you would need to come to terms with that.
> 
> Apologize if I was too graphic, but trying to see if he could have done something to satisfy you that would not have involved him having to get his pecker rigid again.


:smthumbup: Yes of course. That is exactly what I wanted.

I know there is no way he could do PIV again. I wouldn't expect him to. But his hands and mouth weren't broke. So I see no reason that he couldn't have continued with his hands. This wasn't a marathon sex session, maybe 25 minutes... I had a lot of fun, don't get me wrong. But it was feeling so good, I just wanted a little more.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :smthumbup: Yes of course. That is exactly what I wanted.
> 
> I know there is no way he could do PIV again. I wouldn't expect him to. But his hands and mouth weren't broke. So I see no reason that he couldn't have continued with his hands. This wasn't a marathon sex session, maybe 25 minutes... I had a lot of fun, don't get me wrong. But it was feeling so good, I just wanted a little more.


Do you think he understood what you wanted? Do you think he thought you expected him to get erect again? Do you think he simply was done putting in effort to make you feel good and wanted/needed a rest?

Cause gosh 25 minutes is a long damn time for a man under the age of 25!

Curious, when I want more I just plop my pvssy on his lap, hand him the coconut oil and tell him I need more. Some men might find that pushy but my H seems to get a kick out of it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Do you think he understood what you wanted? Do you think he thought you expected him to get erect again? Do you think he simply was done putting in effort to make you feel good and wanted/needed a rest?
> 
> Cause gosh 25 minutes is a long damn time for a man under the age of 25!
> 
> Curious, when I want more I just plop my pvssy on his lap, hand him the coconut oil and tell him I need more. Some men might find that pushy but my H seems to get a kick out of it.


He knew what I wanted. I've never asked him to try PIV again. Also we talked about it a little more afterwards. He just said sorry, I'll get another one in a couple days... 

He was just satisfied and done putting in the effort. 

I think he's given me a 2nd orgasm maybe like twice ever? Rarely he will try if I ask, but he never offers, and he usually just gives up after a couple minutes and puts in lack luster effort that is completely unarousing. 

Never has he laid me down on the bed and mentioned wanting to get me to have multiple O's, or wanted to make it all about me, etc. It's always expected that I will get one, then he will quickly finish afterwards and we will go our separate ways.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, you want enthusiasm and he just doesn't have it. He can manage to have sex with you but he can't bring enthusiasm to the table. There really are men out there who are not enthusiastic about sex and that is not something that gets better with time, unfortunately. 

At some point (and there's no hurry but definitely before you decide to get pregnant) you will have to decide if that's a deal breaker for you.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Openminded said:


> CW, you want enthusiasm and he just doesn't have it. He can manage to have sex with you but he can't bring enthusiasm to the table. There really are men out there who are not enthusiastic about sex and that is not something that gets better with time, unfortunately.
> 
> At some point (and there's no hurry but definitely before you decide to get pregnant) you will have to decide if that's a deal breaker for you.


:iagree:


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :smthumbup: Yes of course. That is exactly what I wanted.
> 
> I know there is no way he could do PIV again. I wouldn't expect him to. But his hands and mouth weren't broke. So I see no reason that he couldn't have continued with his hands. This wasn't a marathon sex session, maybe 25 minutes... I had a lot of fun, don't get me wrong. But it was feeling so good, I just wanted a little more.


Whip out your vibrator and hand it to him.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, I lived with a lack of enthusiasm for decades. It was boring beyond belief (and I'm not even remotely HD). I was not inexperienced when I got married and I knew what male enthusiasm was supposed to be like and I knew he didn't have it. But I thought he was just less experienced and would become enthusiastic in time. Didn't happen. It's who he is. There were other serious problems that developed down the road that led to me finally pulling the plug but that problem certainly didn't help the marriage. 

Just a few thoughts from someone who lived that life for a very long time.


----------



## Holdingontoit

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Do not get married while you suffer an unresolved mismatch, it isn't fair to either of you.
Do not have kids while you suffer with an unresolved mismatch, it isn't fair to the kids.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hope the counseling session goes well.............


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening 
That is sad. I always offer to pay my wife more attention if she wants it - though she almost never takes me up on the offer.




TheCuriousWife said:


> He knew what I wanted. I've never asked him to try PIV again. Also we talked about it a little more afterwards. He just said sorry, I'll get another one in a couple days...
> 
> He was just satisfied and done putting in the effort.
> 
> I think he's given me a 2nd orgasm maybe like twice ever? Rarely he will try if I ask, but he never offers, and he usually just gives up after a couple minutes and puts in lack luster effort that is completely unarousing.
> 
> Never has he laid me down on the bed and mentioned wanting to get me to have multiple O's, or wanted to make it all about me, etc. It's always expected that I will get one, then he will quickly finish afterwards and we will go our separate ways.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So we discussed him rejecting my request, and he said he was sorry. He said he thought I was joking , and that his head wasn't on straight since he just had an orgasm. He said it won't happen again. 

The counselor went well. She did let the cat out of the bag about the fact that I masturbate, and I think husband was a little shocked. He hasn't said anything about it, and I'm guessing he never will. Probably just pretend like he didn't hear it. lol.

She sent us home with some fun exercises which went well, and husband tried to make up for rejecting me. Whoohoo, sex two days in a row. I didn't orgasm which I think kind of made him feel bad, but it was still fun. 

At the session she tried to figure out ways for him to get in the mood. He said our sex was boring and routine. Which I agree with. But he also complained that I "just lay there" and never do anything.  I reminded him I'm always touching him when he is touching me. But he just said it was always the same old thing. Funny, because he always touches me the same old way. Trying anything almost never goes well. And I always ask him if there is something he would like me to do, and he always says no. Funny how I'm the only one who is causing it to be boring... 

Anyway. I think the counseling is helping get some of the issue out in the air. Can't wait for the next session.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The counselor went well. She did let the cat out of the bag about the fact that I masturbate, and I think husband was a little shocked. He hasn't said anything about it, and I'm guessing he never will. Probably just pretend like he didn't hear it. lol.


So don't LET him pretend like he didn't hear it. Open up communication with him about it. You are going to have to lead him where you want him to go, remember? You need to learn to be assertive and get your own needs met, remember?

Don't just accept this kind of thing. Initiate a masturbation discussion and talk openly about your bodies and what you enjoy alone and together, and even have a mutual masturbation session together to watch and discuss it.

This is HOW you get to the good sex you are wanting to have.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I would seriously suggest doing a YouTube search of the "sexiest movie scenes" and make him watch them with you. Let him see what real PASSION looks like, not just "working hard" for an O.

Some that come to mind:

1. Debra Winger and Richard Gere in "An Officer and a Gentleman"
2. Renee Zellweiger and Tom Cruise in "Jerry Maguire"
3. Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio in "Titanic"

Anyone have any other suggestions for hot steamy love scenes?

Seriously CW, he needs to see the progression of how passsion "builds"... and how both partners are CLEARLY not bored! In fact, quite the opposite. They are excited and in the moment, and both people are trying to please each other.

Oh well, just a thought...


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> So we discussed him rejecting my request, and he said he was sorry. He said he thought I was joking , and that his head wasn't on straight since he just had an orgasm. :scratchhead:He said it won't happen again.
> 
> The counselor went well. She did let the cat out of the bag about the fact that I masturbate, and I think husband was a little shocked. He hasn't said anything about it, and I'm guessing he never will. Probably just pretend like he didn't hear it. lol. That's good. Will help him 'get it' hopefully
> 
> She sent us home with some fun exercises which went well, and husband tried to make up for rejecting me. Whoohoo, sex two days in a row. I didn't orgasm which I think kind of made him feel bad, but it was still fun. Yahoo! we don't always orgasm. so what
> 
> At the session she tried to figure out ways for him to get in the mood. He said our sex was boring and routine. Which I agree with. But he also complained that I "just lay there" and never do anything. so?  I reminded him I'm always touching him when he is touching me. But he just said it was always the same old thing. what will you do about it Bub? Funny, because he always touches me the same old way. Trying anything almost never goes well. And I always ask him if there is something he would like me to do, and he always says no. Funny how I'm the only one who is causing it to be boring...
> 
> Anyway. I think the counseling is helping get some of the issue out in the air. Can't wait for the next session.


it's all good!


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening the curious wife
Some people have a really difficult time saying what they want in bed (my wife is terrible that way). Can't tell if they are to embarrassed, or honestly can't think of anything. 

Then if you are the HD in a HD/LD relationship, there is always the fear that doing something new will drive the LD away again.




TheCuriousWife said:


> snip
> . He said our sex was boring and routine. Which I agree with. But he also complained that I "just lay there" and never do anything.  I reminded him I'm always touching him when he is touching me. But he just said it was always the same old thing. Funny, because he always touches me the same old way. Trying anything almost never goes well. And I always ask him if there is something he would like me to do, and he always says no. Funny how I'm the only one who is causing it to be boring...
> 
> A.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"and that his head wasn't on straight since he just had an orgasm." 

this part makes no sense at all. sounds like a smokescreen to me.

"He said it won't happen again." 

that's good.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The first reaction is excuse making (I just ejaculated, my head wasn't on straight.) The second reaction is defensive attack, (you just lay there and it's boring.)

You know neither of this are true or accurate. Call him on it at some point over the next week. Be prepared for anger. Stay calm and stay on point. You do NOT just lay there. That is his perception because he is putting in effort on you. 

When you give a BJ, he just stands there, or he just lays there. Of course he does! Because the action is for HIM!

What does he want you to do when he is rubbing and touching your lady parts? Does he want you to focalize? Does he want you to find your hips on him? My bet is you're already doing that. 

During intercourse what does he want you to do? What is his version of "just laying there?" 

I'm sorry but I have a real hard time believing you ever just lay there like a dead body. In fact, perhaps you should demonstrate the difference between actively receiving and passively receiving so he understands the difference.

For each of his attempts to make excuses, defend himself with attacks, or even to minimize you have to address each one in detail.

Follow FW's suggestion about discussing masturbation. I'm a little shocked he didn't know how often you masturbate. You should not hide this from him. It will give him a better idea of your true sex drive and just how different his is from yours. Also, second the idea of masturbating in front of him...with your vibrator. Start bringing your vibrator out as part of sex play.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Never in my entire life had I ever felt out of it due to having an orgasm. That sounds like BS.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Never in my entire life had I ever felt out of it due to having an orgasm. That sounds like BS.


Oh, I don't know. I managed to walk out of the house on the way to work wearing slippers one time


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> Oh, I don't know. I managed to walk out of the house on the way to work wearing slippers one time


:rofl:


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

QFT




intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> Just so you know that your are completely NORMAL.
> 
> When I was your age -- early/mid twenties -- at the end of the day my undies would have a little, clear "puddle" in them.
> 
> It's normal, healthy and desirable at your age.
> 
> I _so_ *don't* want you to have a complex about this.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Follow FW's suggestion about discussing masturbation. I'm a little shocked he didn't know how often you masturbate. You should not hide this from him. It will give him a better idea of your true sex drive and just how different his is from yours. Also, second the idea of masturbating in front of him...with your vibrator. Start bringing your vibrator out as part of sex play.


I love everything AnonPink said, but this I'd wait on. My H is/was like your H in many ways, and my H was very threatened by my vibrator. He wouldn't let me even own one for the first 10 years of our relationship (yes, I know, but I didn't have TAM or boundaries then, so I thought I had to go along with that). 

This is all probably a lot for your H, possibly more than he can handle already, so you don't want to shut him down. Wait a few months on introducing the vibrator.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Acting like he has a valid position to shame her for masturbation or having a vibration is NOT the right way to go.

Instead, wrangling his head around the NATURAL and HEALTHY sexuality she is trying to exhibit is what has to happen, whether he shuts down about it or not....she should stop catering to his whims so that he will see they are ridiculous. He should not have his position validated by her by having her tip toe around the nonsense.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



northernlights said:


> I love everything AnonPink said, but this I'd wait on. My H is/was like your H in many ways, and my H was very threatened by my vibrator. He wouldn't let me even own one for the first 10 years of our relationship (yes, I know, but I didn't have TAM or boundaries then, so I thought I had to go along with that).
> 
> This is all probably a lot for your H, possibly more than he can handle already, so you don't want to shut him down. Wait a few months on introducing the vibrator.



I would agree with you on principal if Mr Curious hadn't made whiny little baby complaints about getting carpal tunnel from trying to bring his wife off manually. He has also made complaints about how long it takes, and his attention to oral detail shows a careless lack of of focus, a distinct disinterest, and propensity to end far too soon. 

Those comments are buried somewhere in this thread.


----------



## northernlights

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> I would agree with you on principal if Mr Curious hadn't made whiny little baby complaints about getting carpal tunnel from trying to bring his wife off manually. He has also made complaints about how long it takes, and his attention to oral detail shows a careless lack of of focus, a distinct disinterest, and propensity to end far too soon.
> 
> Those comments are buried somewhere in this thread.


Oh my, I haven't read the whole thread. Still, if your H is like mine, shutdown and withdrawal is a very real possibility. You can proceed slowly without validating his issues. Expecting an instant 180 sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FWIW I feel the bare truth did help my situation. It took a while but he seems to have made it through unharmed. 

Of course my biggest confession was that if never had an orgasm with him. Then that sometimes I masturbate daily. Like a whole month in a row. And then that one night I was so aroused and I couldn't wait for him to fall asleep so I could get myself off. It didn't even occur to me to approach him for sex in this state because I had before and he had seemed so indifferent. Once he had even laughed at me when I confessed I was so aroused I was in pain. Like aww, that's so cute kind of laugh.

Then I eventually told him how much I was wanting to have an affair. And then finally that I was thinking more about divorce. 

This has all taken place over the past 2 years, it wasn't like one conversation. However, I think selfish apathetic lovers should at least be presented with the bare truth. Then if they don't change you know exactly where you stand with them. Or where you shouldn't be standing with them.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> FWIW I feel the bare truth did help my situation. It took a while but he seems to have made it through unharmed.
> 
> Of course my biggest confession was that if never had an orgasm with him. Then that sometimes I masturbate daily. Like a whole month in a row. And then that one night I was so aroused and I couldn't wait for him to fall asleep so I could get myself off. It didn't even occur to me to approach him for sex in this state because I had before and he had seemed so indifferent. Once he had even laughed at me when I confessed I was so aroused I was in pain. Like aww, that's so cute kind of laugh.
> 
> Then I eventually told him how much I was wanting to have an affair. And then finally that I was thinking more about divorce.
> 
> This has all taken place over the past 2 years, it wasn't like one conversation. However, I think selfish apathetic lovers should at least be presented with the bare truth. Then if they don't change you know exactly where you stand with them. Or where you shouldn't be standing with them.



I think, as you pointed out MissScarlett, selfish apathetic lovers will minimize your pain, your feelings and even your desires. To slowly, piece by piece, rip the bandaide off allows the selfish lover to lower his defenses enough to make you feel heard, but then they go right back up again.

I really believe a forceful smack upside the head with the bare naked truth will serve better in the long run. Yes, it's gonna hurt and yes, he will probably shut down. But you can't u hear the truth and eventually he is faced with making it better or allowing the marriage to fall apart.

Skip to the chase man!

You know my mantra over the last few years.."I'm not getting any younger over here and I need to get the rest of my life started if you're gonna keep fvcking around on fixing this" has served me well, I think.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Miss Scarlett/Anon Pink,
> 
> I can relate to this (unfortunately).
> 
> But I feel that in getting too intense and demanding, I'll be forcing him to go along with me. He'll be having sex with me under duress, so to speak. So then I don't feel as sexy.
> 
> The latest conversation, in which I ended up in tears, had him reveal that not only does he hardly ever think about sex anymore; but the non-penis varieties don't interest him either.
> 
> And when I said I would be happy with touching, mouthing, caressing; that he didn't have to be worried about getting and keeping an erection; he told me for the first time that "I just don't feel like it".
> 
> *So I don't know if I "pushed" him to this. I don't know if pushing anymore is such a good idea. I'm not sure I want it to get anymore unpleasant.*
> 
> CuriousWife - sorry for the t/j. I know you aren't on the internet on the weekend. But hopefully reading us middle aged people talk about this in our own lives can offer you some insight.


intheory....I don't know your story.

But is this ok with you, will you ever leave him?

If not, then you are right, there's no reason to push it any further. It won't change, most likely.

Curious Wife is not saying it....but there is that under current that eventually she will leave him if he doesn't up his game in the bedroom to at least her minimum needs.

So to me it is like this:

If you're never going to leave, sure, try to get them to come around, but realize that in the end if they don't, you have no power to change it.

If you will eventually leave, then push the envelope, every day if you have to. Because you don't want to waste your time and his or hers by going round in circles for years. You want to get them to understand there is a fire under their ass.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Miss Scarlett/Anon Pink,
> 
> I can relate to this (unfortunately).
> 
> But I feel that in getting too intense and demanding, I'll be forcing him to go along with me. He'll be having sex with me under duress, so to speak. So then I don't feel as sexy.
> 
> The latest conversation, in which I ended up in tears, had him reveal that not only does he hardly ever think about sex anymore; but the non-penis varieties don't interest him either.
> 
> And when I said I would be happy with touching, mouthing, caressing; that he didn't have to be worried about getting and keeping an erection; he told me for the first time that "I just don't feel like it".
> 
> So I don't know if I "pushed" him to this. I don't know if pushing anymore is such a good idea. I'm not sure I want it to get anymore unpleasant.
> 
> CuriousWife - sorry for the t/j. I know you aren't on the internet on the weekend. But hopefully reading us middle aged people talk about this in our own lives can offer you some insight.


I don't know you're story either InTheory, but it seems like this has been an ongoing thing for you. Whether your H has T problems, libido or weight problems, he obviously doesn't feel that your hurt is enough to warrant his behavior to change.

And really, that's the part to pay attention to. He is hurting you by not loving you. Over time, you begin to be,I'd've you are asking too much, you are being unfair, you are being unrealistic, you are unworthy. 

Even when you want to change, change is hard. Imagine how impossible it is when you don't want to change and don't see the point in it?

I just don't think you can schmooze somebody into loving you.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> FWIW I feel the bare truth did help my situation. It took a while but he seems to have made it through unharmed.
> 
> Of course my biggest confession was that if never had an orgasm with him. Then that sometimes I masturbate daily. Like a whole month in a row. And then that one night I was so aroused and I couldn't wait for him to fall asleep so I could get myself off. It didn't even occur to me to approach him for sex in this state because I had before and he had seemed so indifferent. Once he had even laughed at me when I confessed I was so aroused I was in pain. Like aww, that's so cute kind of laugh.
> 
> Then I eventually told him how much I was wanting to have an affair. And then finally that I was thinking more about divorce.
> 
> This has all taken place over the past 2 years, it wasn't like one conversation. However, I think selfish apathetic lovers should at least be presented with the bare truth. Then if they don't change you know exactly where you stand with them. Or where you shouldn't be standing with them.


TCW, you need to soak this post in.

I, too, had to do something similar with my wife.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

InTheory, don't discount your thoughts or ideas. We can never REALLY know what is best and more varying opinions lets us see different perspectives. We may not agree but it's good to see other POV's.

And ...Yeah! You Had Sex!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry I've been absent. Been really busy and stressed.

Sex has been bad.

Intheory you are more than welcome to talk about your story here.  I don't mind at all.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

To clear up the vibrator thing, the counselor recommend letting me masturbate while he holds me or something when I am horny and he is not. If I'm being honest that sounds a lot less fun than doing it by myself, and I'd rather not do it at all. 

When I masturbate it's quick, simple, and no pressure. I don't have to worry about what he is thinking or his feelings. Why would I want to add all that crap in?

Besides the fact that I think it would make me angry. I'd be like, "oh really, your just going to sit there while I do all the work because you hate it so much..." That is not very arousing to me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well when you put it that way, it sure doesn't sound sexy!

But I assure you that there are ways he could be present and participate that would make you have wonderful connected orgasms.

I say do a little of both. Plenty of O's without him in any way you want, but some with him there holding you and helping you.

Most of my orgasms come from a vibrator and it can be sexy and connected and a very fun addition to our sex acts. You are right, if he's going to act bored or like he has no idea where to touch you or how to be involved that isn't going to be fun....but you BOTH need to get over your hang ups about this and learn how to get good at this together if you are going to have any chance at improving your sex life.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> To clear up the vibrator thing, the counselor recommend letting me masturbate while he holds me or something when I am horny and he is not. If I'm being honest that sounds a lot less fun than doing it by myself, and I'd rather not do it at all.
> 
> When I masturbate it's quick, simple, and no pressure. I don't have to worry about what he is thinking or his feelings. Why would I want to add all that crap in?
> 
> Besides the fact that I think it would make me angry. I'd be like, "oh really, your just going to sit there while I do all the work because you hate it so much..." That is not very arousing to me.


Maybe the counselor was hoping it would arouse him as I think it would most men watching their wife masturbate.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

In other news, sex stinks. It's boring, and quiet, and I'm not aroused or in the mood at all. I know it's partially my fault.

Last night we started and it was so lame he lost his erection, got mad, and got up. I cried for a few minutes and then fell asleep. I slept for over 10 hours.

I don't feel like myself. I'm tired all the time, I don't feel like working, or doing much of anything. Sex isn't exciting, and I'm starting to dread it. I'm hoping the stressful times are over and I can go back to my normal self soon.

He says I don't participate in sex, and that I just lay there and that's it is boring. He gets mad that I don't want to kiss him the entire time we are having sex. But it's hard for me to breath because of health issues, and he is so slobbery. Kissing is usually a turn off for me. 

Help. What can I do during sex? I don't want to lay there like a bump on a log. But I am out of ideas. I ask what he wants and he won't tell me. I just need some direction. 

I'm bad at sex. I don't like when he smacks me, or bites me, or tickles me, or licks me.  I don't even know what I do like anymore.

Sex is not fun for each other us.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> ...he is so slobbery. Kissing is usually a turn off for me.
> 
> I'm bad at sex. I don't like when he smacks me, or bites me, or tickles me, or licks me.


First of all, YOU'RE not bad at sex. It's just that sex between the TWO OF YOU is bad 

Your comments above are very revealing CW. You recoil at kissing him. You don't like anything he does to you like "smacking", biting, tickling, or licking.

I would hazard a guess that it's because you're just not attracted to each other the RIGHT way. You're missing that "thing", that spark, that chemistry that makes you want to jump each other's bones.

You're in the exact boat I was in with my ex (I know, I know. I sound like a broken record.)

I don't mean to be a downer, but I think you have some difficult decisions to make in the near future.

(And for heaven's sake, stop blaming yourself. You two are just a sexual mismatch. It's not your FAULT.)


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Do you know, honestly I think he just likes to blame you for how things are. Are you supposed to behave like a porn star when he's not that into it? It seems like he doesn't want to take responsibility for his lack of passion during sex so puts it on you. 

I've had to learn to masturbate with DH and it took a while. Like you said it feels like what's the point because you can do it alone with no pressure. Also watching a woman masturbate is supposed to be a male fantasy, stereotypically. Well, what if you have a man that does just wish you would do it alone and leave him out of it? Then you find yourself with the same thoughts. It's taking too long. He's losing his erection, he hates this. Omg, now I can't get off because it's taking too long and he hates this. 

I was able to get past these thoughts with time. I still have a fear that when I get done he won't have an erection (however he has consistently had one at this point). He gives me no verbal feedback to go on, which is also a drawback. 

I just had to keep working through it. The more i did it the more it became a natural part of life and our relationship. I think if nothing else it's part of that bare truth. I'm a sexual person, I need intimacy and I am your wife. So you damn well WILL sit there and hold me while I get off. You're going to do it or I am. 

DH has adapted since October.


----------



## optimalprimus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> In other news, sex stinks. It's boring, and quiet, and I'm not aroused or in the mood at all. I know it's partially my fault.
> 
> Last night we started and it was so lame he lost his erection, got mad, and got up. I cried for a few minutes and then fell asleep. I slept for over 10 hours.
> 
> I don't feel like myself. I'm tired all the time, I don't feel like working, or doing much of anything. Sex isn't exciting, and I'm starting to dread it. I'm hoping the stressful times are over and I can go back to my normal self soon.
> 
> He says I don't participate in sex, and that I just lay there and that's it is boring. He gets mad that I don't want to kiss him the entire time we are having sex. But it's hard for me to breath because of health issues, and he is so slobbery. Kissing is usually a turn off for me.
> 
> Help. What can I do during sex? I don't want to lay there like a bump on a log. But I am out of ideas. I ask what he wants and he won't tell me. I just need some direction.
> 
> I'm bad at sex. I don't like when he smacks me, or bites me, or tickles me, or licks me.  I don't even know what I do like anymore.
> 
> Sex is not fun for each other us.


Hi, I've not read your whole thread, and your husband may be making excuses/blame shifting. BUT......

Not wanting to be intimate with him unless it fits your idea of sex (no kissing!) and preferring masturbating alone than with him are both red flags about your attitude to sex within this relationship.

I think you should raise these things with the counsellor too. 

Hope you find a happier place soon.


----------



## Eagle3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

_I'm bad at sex. I don't like when he smacks me, or bites me, or tickles me, or licks me. I don't even know what I do like anymore._

CW i have been reading your thread for awhile now and hoping when i see an update its going to be a happy one for you. I dont comment on it as you are getting great advice from the regulars on here.

But i have to just to tell you to get the thought above out of you head. This is not your fault and you are not bad at sex. This is just him trying to turn things around on you and put blame on you. Its immature and passive aggressive but not shocking since his whole outlook on sex is immature (the reaction to you getting wet, your times on your period, the demanding of showers). Whatever is going on you have been more than patient, taken the steps to figure it out to make it work. He can be frustrated and such but that does not make it right to make you feel like crap.

I know nothing we say can fix this for you but i dont want to see you doubting or beating yourself up due to the actions of your husband.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Eagle3 said:


> _I'm bad at sex. I don't like when he smacks me, or bites me, or tickles me, or licks me. I don't even know what I do like anymore._
> 
> 
> *"But i have to just to tell you to get the thought above out of you head. This is not your fault and you are not bad at sex."*
> 
> yes


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening TheCuriousWife
First off - its not your fault. 

What do you imagine good sex to be like? What do you fantasize about? Don't worry yet about whether they are practical, just think of fantasies as sort of guidelines. 

Do you imagine romance in a candle lit room? Or being "taken" by a strong man? A secret tryst with a lover? Sold as a sex slave to the sultan? 

Don't think so much about actions as about mood and ideas. What goes through your mind when you masturbate? Do you watch porn or read erotica? Figure out what excites you. Then think about how to apply that to real world lovemaking.

It may not help if he isn't interested, but at least you can think about how you would like things to be. 





TheCuriousWife said:


> snip
> Help. What can I do during sex? I don't want to lay there like a bump on a log. But I am out of ideas. I ask what he wants and he won't tell me. I just need some direction.
> 
> I'm bad at sex. I don't like when he smacks me, or bites me, or tickles me, or licks me.  I don't even know what I do like anymore.
> 
> Sex is not fun for each other us.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> In other news, sex stinks.


CW, one thing that stands out...

Before marriage, I DID have other sexual partners (not many, but enough to know what GOOD sex is.) You have not had other partners to compare, but you've seen enough movies and shows, read enough novels, to know what passion is SUPPOSED to feel like.

Then, I got married. I was like :wtf: 

It was NOTHING like the sex I had experienced before. What is he DOING?? Let me out!! I did NOT sign up for *THIS*!!

When you are with the right sexual partner, you will LOVE kissing him, biting, nibbling, licking, "smacking"... And just about anything he does to your body will be extremely pleasurable. 

Stop beating yourself up. Your hubs has the issues. Not you.

P.S. Did you ever enjoy kissing him? Because IMHO, if a man is a lousy, slobbery kisser, he's probably lousy in a few other "areas" as well...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Hi Curious,
> 
> Is there anyway that he could hold you *and* the vibrator?
> 
> Like you're in the crook of one of his arms and he's got the vibrator in the other hand?
> 
> Since him giving you an orgasm manually gets awkward, since it takes so long, or he has fallen asleep - this might be a way to share. It takes the pressure off of him to have the touch that you need. Maybe he just isn't that manually skillful??? All sex acts require a level of ability. Some people are naturals, some people can learn, and some people are never going to be much good at some stuff.
> 
> Well, it might not be a permanent thing you guys do; but perhaps a starting point? You know you'll O with the vibrator,right? So if he witnesses how good it makes you feel; without the pressure on him to have the right stroke with his hand - it might lead to more sex.
> 
> I'm sorry the sex has been bad and you have been so stressed, Curious.
> 
> Thanks for inviting me to comment on your thread about my stuff if I need too. You're a sweetie.


It takes a long time manually because there is no passion. Add in all the bad/hurt feelings, and it's not an arousing atmosphere. 


Honestly I didn't care for the vibrator that much. I've only used it a couple times. I like the shower head much better. 


I have tried to bring the vibrator into the bed with us. He is vehemently against it. Like it's an attack against his ego. Plus all the masturbation/toy shame from our conservative upbringing contributes to his feeling as well.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> I'm sure he got mad because he lost his erection. Not because of you.
> 
> While it's not uncommon to sleep so soundly when you are young; does this happen a lot? How is your overall health? Is your bronchitis acting up more lately? Do you have special meds. or rituals you need to do to take care of it?
> 
> Can you go to the dr. for a general check-up, just to make sure you are okay. Always take care of the down-to-earth practical things, whenever you can. If you're not in good physical health; then of course your mood and sexual response will suffer.
> 
> I'm afraid you'll have to tell him about your issues with the kissing. I assume you mean mouth-to-mouth. Can he kiss you more on the hair, neck, arms? Would that be a compromise? I love getting hickeys on my neck - do you like those
> 
> Let's face facts; if you can't breathe, then you can't breathe. It's nothing personal against _him_. No need to mention the slobbery thing - well, I don't think so at this point.
> 
> You are not bad at sex. For one thing, you are way too fascinated by and interested in it for that to be true. People usually end up being pretty good at things that they find interesting; and which they pursue knowledge of.


I don't fall asleep easily, normally. But I've had a huge amount of stress lately, which in turned called my lung issues to flare up. Which of course makes me feel sick and tired.

I'm sure it will clear up eventually. I have recently been to the doctor and I'm as healthy as a horse... well with a untreatable lung condition. lol. 

I do not like hickeys in visible places because I do have a professional job, and frequently have to meet clients. I can't be covered in hickeys. I don't mind them under clothes.

But even when he kisses my body he is very wet. It's a turn off when there is a puddle left, or a drool string. Ew. I wouldn't mind kissing if he would just swallow every once in a while. :scratchhead: 

Add in the fact he has terrible allergies, and loudly breaths through his mouth, and is constantly sniffling and snorting during sex it's not exactly arousing. 

I know that is kind of shallow of me, but I've always hated slobber. He does know this, but doesn't do much to improve it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



optimalprimus said:


> Hi, I've not read your whole thread, and your husband may be making excuses/blame shifting. BUT......
> 
> Not wanting to be intimate with him unless it fits your idea of sex (no kissing!) and preferring masturbating alone than with him are both red flags about your attitude to sex within this relationship.
> 
> I think you should raise these things with the counsellor too.
> 
> Hope you find a happier place soon.


It's not "no kissing." Just not the entire time of sex. I've got to breathe. lol.

And actually, I'm not masturbating currently either. My entire sex drive has took a plummet. Due to stress, or due to our bad sex life. I don't know.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Eagle3 said:


> _I'm bad at sex. I don't like when he smacks me, or bites me, or tickles me, or licks me. I don't even know what I do like anymore._
> 
> CW i have been reading your thread for awhile now and hoping when i see an update its going to be a happy one for you. I dont comment on it as you are getting great advice from the regulars on here.
> 
> But i have to just to tell you to get the thought above out of you head. This is not your fault and you are not bad at sex. This is just him trying to turn things around on you and put blame on you. Its immature and passive aggressive but not shocking since his whole outlook on sex is immature (the reaction to you getting wet, your times on your period, the demanding of showers). Whatever is going on you have been more than patient, taken the steps to figure it out to make it work. He can be frustrated and such but that does not make it right to make you feel like crap.
> 
> I know nothing we say can fix this for you but i dont want to see you doubting or beating yourself up due to the actions of your husband.


Thanks. 

It is me who demands I shower though. Not him.

Also it takes two to tango. I'm not denying that he contributes to the problem. But I _know_ I'm not all perfect either. I don't want you guys to think I'm doing everything correctly because I'm not. But I do want to do better.

I do have a hang up about slobber. I don't like rough play like biting or smacking. Although the counselor did give us a biting exercise where he bit me softer, and I enjoyed that. 

As Happy as a Clam stated, we just don't have that spark together I guess. Neither of us would be bad with a more suitable partner. If we can adapt to each other, we may be able to find a middle ground. Otherwise I think we are headed for trouble.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I don't fall asleep easily, normally. But I've had a huge amount of stress lately, which in turned called my lung issues to flare up. Which of course makes me feel sick and tired.
> 
> I'm sure it will clear up eventually. I have recently been to the doctor and I'm as healthy as a horse... well with a untreatable lung condition. lol.
> 
> I do not like hickeys in visible places because I do have a professional job, and frequently have to meet clients. I can't be covered in hickeys. I don't mind them under clothes.
> 
> But even when he kisses my body he is very wet. It's a turn off when there is a puddle left, or a drool string. Ew. I wouldn't mind kissing if he would just swallow every once in a while. :scratchhead:
> 
> Add in the fact he has terrible allergies, and loudly breaths through his mouth, and is constantly sniffling and snorting during sex it's not exactly arousing.
> 
> I know that is kind of shallow of me, but I've always hated slobber. He does know this, but doesn't do much to improve it.


Have you talked to him about the kissing issue? My husband used to be more of a wet kisser, but has gotten much better. I'd playfully pull away and wink at him if he was getting a little slobbery, so he'd swallow more. It took a few times of that before he started really noticing it and keeping on top of it. 

Does he take allergy medication? My husband takes daily allergy medicine to keep on top of it, so he feels great and doesn't have to deal with the blah symptoms.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> As Happy as a Clam stated, we just don't have that spark together I guess. Neither of us would be bad with a more suitable partner. If we can adapt to each other, we may be able to find a middle ground. Otherwise I think we are headed for trouble.


CW... not to beat a dead horse... BUT, I will . My ex also was a "slobberer"!!! I remember well the drool dripping down into my mouth (gross!!), him jamming his tongue in my ear, licking my neck and shoulders, leaving a slug trail... _*pardon me while I shudder*..._

The first time my SO kissed me... it was like a "lock in a key"... the LIPS I had been yearning for... . It was simply magic... pure pleasure... we "fit"... know what I mean?

CW... stop settling. Find your own way to happiness.

(Go ahead folks, lob the 2x4s my way... I know of which I speak... It's either "there" or it's not...)


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> CW, one thing that stands out...
> 
> Before marriage, I DID have other sexual partners (not many, but enough to know what GOOD sex is.) You have not had other partners to compare, but you've seen enough movies and shows, read enough novels, to know what passion is SUPPOSED to feel like.
> 
> Then, I got married. I was like :wtf:
> 
> It was NOTHING like the sex I had experienced before. What is he DOING?? Let me out!! I did NOT sign up for *THIS*!!
> 
> When you are with the right sexual partner, you will LOVE kissing him, biting, nibbling, licking, "smacking"... And just about anything he does to your body will be extremely pleasurable.
> 
> Stop beating yourself up. Your hubs has the issues. Not you.
> 
> P.S. Did you ever enjoy kissing him? Because IMHO, if a man is a lousy, slobbery kisser, he's probably lousy in a few other "areas" as well...


I wonder thought if even if I did have another partner if I still wouldn't like it. Maybe it's just me?

I have realized that I like hands a lot more than mouth. I enjoy his caresses, and his touch. (Unless it's rough) But he is not so good with his mouth. He can't even roll his tongue.









I've never met someone else who can't do that. He can only keep his tongue flat and wide, so french kissing is pretty poor. And he is so slobbery that I often need to wipe my face after even normal kissing. Not a good combination with my slobber phobia...

I did enjoy kissing at first, but it was new. We used to kiss for hours. But I would have to remind him to swallow, or else I would soon be drowning. 

He is not very good at oral if that it what you are thinking. But he doesn't do it very long anyway.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> Have you talked to him about the kissing issue? My husband used to be more of a wet kisser, but has gotten much better. I'd playfully pull away and wink at him if he was getting a little slobbery, so he'd swallow more. It took a few times of that before he started really noticing it and keeping on top of it.
> 
> Does he take allergy medication? My husband takes daily allergy medicine to keep on top of it, so he feels great and doesn't have to deal with the blah symptoms.


We've been round and round about his kissing. And he will try harder for a while, but then he forgets and slips back again.

I guess it's time to remind him again. But I feel so mean.

He does take allergy medicine, but not everyday. It doesn't make him 100% better either.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> CW... not to beat a dead horse... BUT, I will . My ex also was a "slobberer"!!! I remember well the drool dripping down into my mouth (gross!!), him jamming his tongue in my ear, licking my neck and shoulders, leaving a slug trail... _*pardon me while I shudder*..._
> 
> The first time my SO kissed me... it was like a "lock in a key"... the LIPS I had been yearning for... . It was simply magic... pure pleasure... we "fit"... know what I mean?
> 
> CW... stop settling. Find your own way to happiness.
> 
> (Go ahead folks, lob the 2x4s my way... I know of which I speak... It's either "there" or it's not...)


:lol: :lol:

SLUG TRAIL! 

Totally cracks me up. 

Yes, that is exactly how it is. I can literately feel his slobber running into my mouth. He sticks his tongue in my ear, and licks my body in big, wide, doggy kisses. Leaving a slug trail behind everywhere he goes. Then I'm trying not to be distracted, and trying to subtly wipe it off so I'm not grossing out.

Semen no problem. But I hate slobber trails.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't feel mean. He's apparently a slow and not very enthusiastic learner. 

It sounds like you prefer a light and gentle touch overall. Keep reminding him. A million times if necessary. If he won't read about proper sex technique then you should and tell him (or show him) what you've learned. 

He's obviously not going to take the lead so you have to.

PS
And definitely work on the saliva issue. That grosses me out just thinking about it. Yuck.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Openminded said:


> Don't feel mean. He's apparently a slow and not very enthusiastic learner.
> 
> It sounds like you prefer a light and gentle touch overall. Keep reminding him. A million times if necessary. If he won't read about proper sex technique then you should and tell him (or show him) what you've learned.
> 
> He's obviously not going to take the lead so you have to.
> 
> PS
> And definitely work on the saliva issue. That grosses me out just thinking about it. Yuck.


YES! I just want a gentle but enthusiastic touch.

I do like rougher sometimes, but there has to be a build up to it.

I do like pulling on my hair, or being squeezed or pushed up against things.

But there is a big difference between that and getting bit hard enough to leave a mark, or getting smacked.

I like dominate, but sensual touching, gradual. Not sharp or unexpected pain.


----------



## Faithful Wife

MissScarlett said:


> Do you know, honestly I think he just likes to blame you for how things are. Are you supposed to behave like a porn star when he's not that into it? It seems like he doesn't want to take responsibility for his lack of passion during sex so puts it on you.
> 
> I've had to learn to masturbate with DH and it took a while. Like you said it feels like what's the point because you can do it alone with no pressure. Also watching a woman masturbate is supposed to be a male fantasy, stereotypically. Well, what if you have a man that does just wish you would do it alone and leave him out of it? Then you find yourself with the same thoughts. It's taking too long. He's losing his erection, he hates this. Omg, now I can't get off because it's taking too long and he hates this.
> 
> I was able to get past these thoughts with time. I still have a fear that when I get done he won't have an erection (however he has consistently had one at this point). He gives me no verbal feedback to go on, which is also a drawback.
> 
> I just had to keep working through it. The more i did it the more it became a natural part of life and our relationship. I think if nothing else it's part of that bare truth. I'm a sexual person, I need intimacy and I am your wife. So you damn well WILL sit there and hold me while I get off. You're going to do it or I am.
> 
> DH has adapted since October.


You've made great strides Scarlett. I'm curious though, why would it matter if he had an erection or not while you are getting off? That's a long time for him to still have one while the focus is on you. My H wouldn't have one unless I was also doing oral on him at the same time or something. So normally that's not the case. Usually if I'm getting off this way first, when I'm done we then bring about his erection and continue the fun.

A man can be aroused and very turned on without having a full erection.


----------



## Openminded

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I remember you mentioned early on that he's a little too rough. It's not supposed to hurt unless you want it to. 

He'll either focus on learning these things or he won't. But at least you'll know you have done everything you could to fix things.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> YES! I just want a gentle but enthusiastic touch.
> 
> I do like rougher sometimes, but there has to be a build up to it.
> 
> I do like pulling on my hair, or being squeezed or pushed up against things.
> 
> But there is a big difference between that and getting bit hard enough to leave a mark, or getting smacked.
> 
> I like dominate, but sensual touching, gradual. Not sharp or unexpected pain.


Curious, do you think that he believes that "dominant" means doing things that cause pain? Maybe it's just ignorance on his part. I wish he would read some books.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But he is not so good with his mouth. He can't even roll his tongue.


LOVE this graphic illustration!!! Kudos to CW!!



TheCuriousWife said:


> He can only keep his tongue flat and wide, so french kissing is pretty poor. And he is so slobbery that I often need to wipe my face after even normal kissing. Not a good combination with my slobber phobia...


Oh, CW... trust me. It can be SOOOO much better than this!! When you're with someone who really KNOWS how to kiss, plant one on you, make love with his mouth, you will wonder why you ever tolerated the "slobber-fest". Just like I did. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> He is not very good at oral *if that it what you are thinking*. But he doesn't do it very long anyway.


Actually, I was referring to sex in general . Men who know how to work magic with their mouths generally know how to work magic "in other areas."



TheCuriousWife said:


> :lol: :lol:
> SLUG TRAIL!
> Totally cracks me up.












Believe me, I TOTALLY get it!!!! :lol:

*CW... not to "corrupt" you, but how I wish you had a "baseline" from whence to judge all of this... Then, you would KNOW. *


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Oh, CW... trust me. It can be SOOOO much better than this!! When you're with someone who really KNOWS how to kiss, plant one on you, make love with his mouth, you will wonder why you ever tolerated the "slobber-fest". Just like I did.


People can learn how to kiss though, but your partner has to want to learn for that to happen. If he is happy with how things are, then I don't know if it possible to make that better. My husband started off as an ok kisser, kind of slobbery, but is great now. He just kept getting better.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Curious, do you think that he believes that "dominant" means doing things that cause pain? Maybe it's just ignorance on his part. I wish he would read some books.


No he doesn't.

He just gets rough and doesn't care how many times I tell him I don't like it.

He will say, "Yes you do. I know what you like."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> People can learn how to kiss though, but your partner has to want to learn for that to happen. If he is happy with how things are, then I don't know if it possible to make that better. My husband started off as an ok kisser, kind of slobbery, but is great now. He just kept getting better.


I think he _could_ learn to kiss better.

I just don't know if he is willing, or cares.

How did you help your husband?


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I think he _could_ learn to kiss better.
> 
> I just don't know if he is willing, or cares.
> 
> How did you help your husband?


We talked a lot about it. I'd tell him that I was going to take the lead and show him what I like(not letting him do his usual moves), and would pull away if he tried something I wasn't a fan of. I'd kiss him showing him how I liked it and ask him to do this or that. It took some time, but it's great now.


----------



## Holdingontoit

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Kudos to you for being patient and teaching him. I wish my wife would educate me as to what she likes.


----------



## MissScarlett

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> You've made great strides Scarlett. I'm curious though, why would it matter if he had an erection or not while you are getting off? That's a long time for him to still have one while the focus is on you. My H wouldn't have one unless I was also doing oral on him at the same time or something. So normally that's not the case. Usually if I'm getting off this way first, when I'm done we then bring about his erection and continue the fun.
> 
> A man can be aroused and very turned on without having a full erection.


This comes from a long developed belief that he dislikes my vulva, in fact is repelled by it. This belief came from him never touching me with his fingers or mouth anywhere near my vulva for 18 years. In time I came to believe I must be malformed, disgusting, repellant, something. That he could only bear to touch me with his penis and only that so he could get off with me doing all the work. (I was and still am on top for piv 98% of the time.)

And so my fear of him losing his erection while I orgasm is due to this fear he would be repulsed by seeing me have an orgasm. And if that were the case there's not much farther we can go. 

Mind you I see what you are saying. This has only been since October with DH and he gives me nothing verbally to go on and so I have used his body as the way to measure arousal. 

We are talking more about sex and things are better, much better, but 18 years of layered beliefs take a while to work through.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Mind you I see what you are saying. This has only been since October with DH and he gives me nothing verbally to go on and so I have used his body as the way to measure arousal.
> 
> We are talking more about sex and things are better, much better, but 18 years of layered beliefs take a while to work through.


Haven't you said to him straight up, please tell me encouraging, loving compliments about my vulva and how beautiful it is?

And if not, why not?

If you want to get rid of those old beliefs, make him help you do it. Don't wait for him to say anything on his own, as you know he won't. If you have to hand him a script, do it. If you have to copy something out of an erotic story that a man is saying about his woman's kitty, do it. If you have to tell him "no sex until you do this", do it.

This is how you get what you want by being assertive. Curious needs these kinds of lessons, too.

"But it won't count if I have to tell him" is nonsense. It is nonsense when it is coming from a man, too.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Haven't you said to him straight up, please tell me encouraging, loving compliments about my vulva and how beautiful it is?
> 
> And if not, why not?
> 
> If you want to get rid of those old beliefs, make him help you do it. Don't wait for him to say anything on his own, as you know he won't. If you have to hand him a script, do it. If you have to copy something out of an erotic story that a man is saying about his woman's kitty, do it. If you have to tell him "no sex until you do this", do it.
> 
> This is how you get what you want by being assertive. Curious needs these kinds of lessons, too.
> 
> "But it won't count if I have to tell him" is nonsense. It is nonsense when it is coming from a man, too.



Men! They can be so damn stupid it's a wonder we ever fell in love with them in the first place!

Yes, you have to tell him that you need to hear encouraging complimentary things during sex. You also have to GIVE these things to him as well. "I just love your c***, it's so soft yet so hard, I love the way the veins snake around and bulge out when you're erect. I love running my tongue along the head..."

MissScarlett, I LOVE hearing how you have turned things around and I really love your assertiveness in bed! I think masturbating for your H is really damn sexy. 

My H doesn't say anything either but I know he likes what he sees because of the intense look in his eyes when he is watching. He takes every opportunity during sex to see and watch my lady bits. Never says anything but his body language speaks pretty loudly. So on this score at least, his lack of verbal expression doesn't affect me.

Curious, your H is blaming you because he feels attacked. That's plain to everyone reading this thread. 

However, your cleanliness and slobber issues really need to be worked on. What if you took charge during sex a few times? Got out of the shower and while he was in bed watching, you seductively spread moisturizer all over your body, slowly waltzed to the bed with your vibrator in one hand and some coconut oil in the other. Straddled his lap and looked at him while you spread the coconut oil. Kissed him gently, pulled back when he tried to deepen, touched your body in the way you look then took his hands and repeated the pattern. When he went too hard or too fast, you pulled his hands away. Then did the same with the vibe. When you were ready, you stroked him to full erection then sat on it and went to town, being verbal about how good it felt, being vocal with noises.

There isn't a heterosexual man live who wouldn't LOVE for that to happen.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> This comes from a long developed belief that *he dislikes my vulva, in fact is repelled by it*. This belief came from him never touching me with his fingers or mouth anywhere near my vulva for 18 years. In time I came to believe I must be malformed, disgusting, repellant, something. That he could only bear to touch me with his penis and only that so he could get off with me doing all the work. (I was and still am on top for piv 98% of the time.)
> 
> For the life of me, this doesn't make any sense at all (I don't mean you, but him). When you say things are much better, do you also mean that this issue has been obliterated once and for all?
> 
> And so my fear of him losing his erection while I orgasm is due to this *fear he would be repulsed by seeing me have an orgasm*. And if that were the case there's not much farther we can go. Another extremely troubling issue. Do you mean it is only a fear you have? Certainly he would not actually be repulsed by you O? Say it's not true!
> 
> Mind you I see what you are saying. This has only been since October with DH and he gives me nothing verbally to go on and so I have used his body as the way to measure arousal.
> 
> We are talking more about sex and things are better, much better, but 18 years of layered beliefs take a while to work through.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Men! They can be so damn stupid it's a wonder we ever fell in love with them in the first place!
> 
> Yes, you have to tell him that you need to hear encouraging complimentary things during sex. You also have to GIVE these things to him as well. "I just love your c***, it's so soft yet so hard, I love the way the veins snake around and bulge out when you're erect. I love running my tongue along the head..."
> 
> MissScarlett, I LOVE hearing how you have turned things around and I really love your assertiveness in bed! I think masturbating for your H is really damn sexy.
> 
> My H doesn't say anything either but I know he likes what he sees because of the intense look in his eyes when he is watching. He takes every opportunity during sex to see and watch my lady bits. Never says anything but his body language speaks pretty loudly. So on this score at least, his lack of verbal expression doesn't affect me.
> 
> Curious, your H is blaming you because he feels attacked. That's plain to everyone reading this thread.
> 
> However, your cleanliness and slobber issues really need to be worked on. What if you took charge during sex a few times? Got out of the shower and while he was in bed watching, you seductively spread moisturizer all over your body, slowly waltzed to the bed with your vibrator in one hand and some coconut oil in the other. Straddled his lap and looked at him while you spread the coconut oil. Kissed him gently, pulled back when he tried to deepen, touched your body in the way you look then took his hands and repeated the pattern. When he went too hard or too fast, you pulled his hands away. Then did the same with the vibe. When you were ready, you stroked him to full erection then sat on it and went to town, being verbal about how good it felt, being vocal with noises.
> 
> There isn't a heterosexual man live who wouldn't LOVE for that to happen.


Today's erotica has been brought to you by Anon Pink. :smthumbup:

Excuse me I need some time alone with this post.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MissScarlett said:


> Mind you I see what you are saying. This has only been since October with DH and he gives me nothing verbally to go on and so I have used his body as the way to measure arousal.
> 
> We are talking more about sex and things are better, much better, but 18 years of layered beliefs take a while to work through.


This is a for what it is worth, true for me not necessarily true for your husband. 

If my wife has her clothes off I pretty much have a boner. If there is skin to skin contact I definitely have a boner

EXCEPT, if I am doing oral on her for more than a couple or few minutes. Boner goes away, doesn't mean I am not enjoying the hell out of what I am doing but I am concentrating on her, totally. The only thing about this that can be a little problematic is she tends to want to get pounded for the actual O rather than oral so there can be a little bit of a wrestling match at the end as I try and continue what I'm doin a little longer so the boner has a chance to come back

So, if your guy is doing something FOR YOU and really concentrating on your response it shouldn't be seen as a neg. if the boner goes away if he is getting no stimulation and solely concentrating on you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Men! They can be so damn stupid it's a wonder we ever fell in love with them in the first place!
> 
> However, your cleanliness and slobber issues really need to be worked on. What if you took charge during sex a few times? Got out of the shower and while he was in bed watching, you seductively spread moisturizer all over your body, slowly waltzed to the bed with your vibrator in one hand and some coconut oil in the other. Straddled his lap and looked at him while you spread the coconut oil. Kissed him gently, pulled back when he tried to deepen, touched your body in the way you look then took his hands and repeated the pattern. When he went too hard or too fast, you pulled his hands away. Then did the same with the vibe. When you were ready, you stroked him to full erection then sat on it and went to town, being verbal about how good it felt, being vocal with noises.
> 
> There isn't a heterosexual man live who wouldn't LOVE for that to happen.



I HAVE done things similar to this (without the vibrator) many times. 

But it's not always successful. I can still remember how hurtful it was when I climbed on him naked one night, and he completely ignored me until I stopped and cried, and then he ignored me some more. I'm a little nervous to throw myself into the fire like that anymore.

But I will try again. Maybe tonight if I can pep talk myself into wanting to have sex.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Men! They can be so damn stupid it's a wonder we ever fell in love with them in the first place!
> 
> Yes, you have to tell him that you need to hear encouraging complimentary things during sex. You also have to GIVE these things to him as well. "I just love your c***, it's so soft yet so hard, I love the way the veins snake around and bulge out when you're erect. I love running my tongue along the head..."
> 
> MissScarlett, I LOVE hearing how you have turned things around and I really love your assertiveness in bed! I think masturbating for your H is really damn sexy.
> 
> My H doesn't say anything either but I know he likes what he sees because of the intense look in his eyes when he is watching. He takes every opportunity during sex to see and watch my lady bits. Never says anything but his body language speaks pretty loudly. So on this score at least, his lack of verbal expression doesn't affect me.
> 
> Curious, your H is blaming you because he feels attacked. That's plain to everyone reading this thread.
> 
> However, your cleanliness and slobber issues really need to be worked on. What if you took charge during sex a few times? Got out of the shower and while he was in bed watching, you seductively spread moisturizer all over your body, slowly waltzed to the bed with your vibrator in one hand and some coconut oil in the other. Straddled his lap and looked at him while you spread the coconut oil. Kissed him gently, pulled back when he tried to deepen, touched your body in the way you look then took his hands and repeated the pattern. When he went too hard or too fast, you pulled his hands away. Then did the same with the vibe. When you were ready, you stroked him to full erection then sat on it and went to town, being verbal about how good it felt, being vocal with noises.
> 
> There isn't a heterosexual man live who wouldn't LOVE for that to happen.



Muy caliente! Senorita, your words are like a volcano that has erupted inside of my pants.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I HAVE done things similar to this (without the vibrator) many times.
> 
> But it's not always successful. I can still remember how hurtful it was when I climbed on him naked one night, and he completely ignored me until I stopped and cried, and then he ignored me some more. I'm a little nervous to throw myself into the fire like that anymore.
> 
> But I will try again. Maybe tonight if I can pep talk myself into wanting to have sex.


That's nearly unforgivable. Frankly, I'm not sure I would be able to come back from that. Had something sorta similar happen once a few years ago but I got up and left the house. Went shopping, had dinner out, didn't come home until bed time and didn't look at or talk to him. And I was no where near as overt as I suggested above. He apologized a few days later. But it took a while before I trusted him again.

So don't do it unless it's something you want to do and feel good about doing, and the next time he complains, throw this right back in his face...HARD!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I HAVE done things similar to this (without the vibrator) many times.
> 
> But it's not always successful. I can still remember how hurtful it was when I climbed on him naked one night, and he completely ignored me until I stopped and cried, and then he ignored me some more. I'm a little nervous to throw myself into the fire like that anymore.
> 
> But I will try again. Maybe tonight if I can pep talk myself into wanting to have sex.


Boy, I'd like to take your husband out behind the woodshed and have a heart-to-heart with him!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> That's nearly unforgivable. Frankly, I'm not sure I would be able to come back from that. Had something sorta similar happen once a few years ago but I got up and left the house. Went shopping, had dinner out, didn't come home until bed time and didn't look at or talk to him. And I was no where near as overt as I suggested above. He apologized a few days later. But it took a while before I trusted him again.
> 
> So don't do it unless it's something you want to do and feel good about doing, and the next time he complains, throw this right back in his face...HARD!


I don't think I talked to him for several days after that. I've never been so hurt and embarrassed in my entire life. 

If he is complaining or something and I happen to bring that incident up, he is always like, "you still remember that? You need to let that go."

Easier said than done. I'll never forget the pain that caused. 

I'd like to say that is a one time incident but it's not...

Like the time I bought my first thong and was waiting in bed for him when he got home with the blankets covering me for a surprise. I was so excited. I tried to come onto him, but he pushed me away so I went to bed in tears. Then in the morning when the covers got pulled back he was upset when he discovered the thong. He was like, "why didn't you tell me you were wearing a thong?" Uh. Because I shouldn't have to bribe or beg for your attention.

I think I've worn the thong maybe once or twice since then. :/

He is much better than he used to be. But it's hard to let go of those past memories. They cloud my thoughts.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, your husband is clueless!!


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sooo, you ladies 

It almost seems like anything less than batting a thousand is grounds for serious introspective mortification and hurt. It's a fact your husbands have lower drives than you do, is this self generated pain reasonable? 

I look at it this way, before we got married we'd generally see each other 2, 3 or 4 times a week. The batting average may not have been 1,000 but it was pretty close. 

Then we got married and we were together 7 a week. It became apparent pretty quickly that all this extra time together did not represent much in the way of additional opportunities for sex. So maybe my batting average was 500. *2 attempts:1 success*

And it's been as low as say 50 or 100 - 20:1 to *10:1*

Lots of 10:1, I mean YEARS. 

Hell, the only reason it isn't currently at least 7:1 is I put it out of my mind and don't bother the 4 or 5/7ths or the time the no will come as an autonomic nervous twich

Mind you, I think you SHOULD GET IT WHEN YOU WANT but maybe your response is a little unfair


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> But it's not always successful. I can still remember how hurtful it as when I climbed on him naked one night, and he completely ignored me until I stopped and cried, and then he ignored me some more. I'm a little nervous to throw myself into the fire like that anymore.


This is absolutely horrible. What a terrible thing for him to do to you. I honestly can't imagine getting past that. I don't generally condone violence, but holy hell, you should've slapped the sh*t out of him.

Although, if my EW had done this instead of the "get it over with" duty sex, at least I would have been done with the relationship sooner.

Ouch CW. I feel for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That did happen nearly two years ago, so he was stupider then. 

But it was after a 9 day dry spell! So I don't think that it was too much to ask for, anonmd...

Really, it's not like I ask daily. So no, my response isn't unfair.

And yes Dvlsadvc8, I wish I had slapped the crap out of him.  lol


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That did happen nearly two years ago, so he was stupider then.
> 
> But it was after a 9 day dry spell! So I don't think that it was too much to ask for, anonmd...
> 
> Really, it's not like I ask daily. So no, my response isn't unfair.
> 
> And yes Dvlsadvc8, I wish I had slapped the crap out of him.  lol


Man oh man on this forum you learn everything is relative. Once every nine days would've been a porn star life with my EW. lol

Dry spells were 30 days. :rofl:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Man oh man on this forum you learn everything is relative. Once every nine days would've been a porn star life with my EW. lol
> 
> Dry spells were 30 days. :rofl:


Yes, very relative. Over a week is really unacceptable for me.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening TheCuriousWife
this is the great HD/LD divide.

If my wife did that, I'd have to be a death's door to turn her down. The only downside is that it might be so exciting that I wouldn't last long.

I think LDs really don't understand how much it hurts to be turned down. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> I HAVE done things similar to this (without the vibrator) many times.
> 
> But it's not always successful. I can still remember how hurtful it was when I climbed on him naked one night, and he completely ignored me until I stopped and cried, and then he ignored me some more. I'm a little nervous to throw myself into the fire like that anymore.
> 
> But I will try again. Maybe tonight if I can pep talk myself into wanting to have sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What the heck.  I'm sitting here crying because I want to have sex but I'm afraid.

I'm afraid if I go shower now and be ready and waiting for him when he gets home that he will turn me down because he will want dinner first, or want to do something outside while there is sun. I'll be crushed if I'm naked and he doesn't act the least bit interested. Or will tell me his typical "in a minute" while he plays on his phone first.

I'm afraid I won't be able to get in the mood. I'm afraid it will be boring. 

Sex isn't suppose to be this complicated.  

And now I'm upset because I want to have sex, but how in the heck am I suppose to be in the mood when I'm sitting here crying. Arg. Emotions. Sometimes I want to slap myself.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, did you ever look for and find some example scenes in movies or videos to share with your H, to show him some of the type of passion you want to see? I think you should both do this, since neither of you are very good at saying and describing what you'd like to see and do.

Maybe you could look up sexy videos together instead of initiating sex right now?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Curious, did you ever look for and find some example scenes in movies or videos to share with your H, to show him some of the type of passion you want to see? I think you should both do this, since neither of you are very good at saying and describing what you'd like to see and do.
> 
> Maybe you could look up sexy videos together instead of initiating sex right now?


He won't do it. Too conservative. He was leery about me buying a sex book with detailed CARTOON pictures in it. 

I bought it anyway.

Maybe I can suggest a movie tonight that just happens to have a nice little scene in it. Any suggestions?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What about sext conversations during the day to set up the mood/expectations for that night? That way, you've made desire known... and it's now on him to do the confidence boosting pursuit on his terms later on. TBH, if that's his thing, then you could always feign disinterest as a sort of role play... something for him to overcome - sort of seduce you into it.

If he's not down with that, then my guess is that he's just lazy and his claim of wanting to pursue is bogus.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Send him a text, see if you can get a couple interactions going. Just something simple you can build on - "I'm REALLY thinking of you" with some emoticon :moon::moon:



TheCuriousWife said:


> What the heck.  I'm sitting here crying because I want to have sex but I'm afraid.
> 
> I'm afraid if I go shower now and be ready and waiting for him when he gets home that he will turn me down because he will want dinner first, or want to do something outside while there is sun. I'll be crushed if I'm naked and he doesn't act the least bit interested. Or will tell me his typical "in a minute" while he plays on his phone first.
> 
> I'm afraid I won't be able to get in the mood. I'm afraid it will be boring.
> 
> Sex isn't suppose to be this complicated.
> 
> And now I'm upset because I want to have sex, but how in the heck am I suppose to be in the mood when I'm sitting here crying. Arg. Emotions. Sometimes I want to slap myself.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> What the heck.  I'm sitting here crying because I want to have sex but I'm afraid.
> 
> I'm afraid if I go shower now and be ready and waiting for him when he gets home that he will turn me down because he will want dinner first, or want to do something outside while there is sun. I'll be crushed if I'm naked and he doesn't act the least bit interested. Or will tell me his typical "in a minute" while he plays on his phone first.
> 
> I'm afraid I won't be able to get in the mood. I'm afraid it will be boring.
> 
> Sex isn't suppose to be this complicated.
> 
> And now I'm upset because I want to have sex, but how in the heck am I suppose to be in the mood when I'm sitting here crying. Arg. Emotions. Sometimes I want to slap myself.


(((((Hugs)))))


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm watching some scenes now for some inspiration. At least then maybe I can tell him what I want.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> What about sext conversations during the day to set up the mood/expectations for that night? That way, you've made desire known... and it's now on him to do the confidence boosting pursuit on his terms later on. TBH, if that's his thing, then you could always feign disinterest as a sort of role play... something for him to overcome - sort of seduce you into it.
> 
> If he's not down with that, then my guess is that he's just lazy and his claim of wanting to pursue is bogus.


He isn't allowed to have his phone during work except at lunch.

He doesn't usually handle or respond to sexting too well. But perhaps I will give it another go.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And now I'm upset because I want to have sex, but how in the heck am I suppose to be in the mood when I'm sitting here crying. Arg. Emotions. Sometimes I want to slap myself.


Don't sweat it. Could be worse... women cry during/after sex with me. :rofl:

I'm either really good or really bad. :scratchhead::rofl:

 


-not to make light of your situation, but hopefully give you a chuckle.


----------



## Faithful Wife

TheCuriousWife said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious, did you ever look for and find some example scenes in movies or videos to share with your H, to show him some of the type of passion you want to see? I think you should both do this, since neither of you are very good at saying and describing what you'd like to see and do.
> 
> Maybe you could look up sexy videos together instead of initiating sex right now?
> 
> 
> 
> He won't do it. Too conservative. He was leery about me buying a sex book with detailed CARTOON pictures in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought it anyway.
> 
> Maybe I can suggest a movie tonight that just happens to have a nice little scene in it. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

I'm gonna guess that you and I don't have the same tastes 

However...what about Dirty Dancing? You could practice the way they are touching each other at dance practice.


----------



## Ntsikzo

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> :
> Curious - I want to chime in on the scenario a few years ago where you climbed on him naked and he ignored you I wouldn't be able to forget that either. Sure, you forgive; and time goes by and the memory dulls down in your mind. But that would be impossible to forget. And of course it affects whether you want to do something like that ever again.
> 
> If he really, really wasn't in the mood for sex; he should have just gently and sweetly told you. "Wife, I'm exhausted; not right now, but you're beautiful and I love you"
> 
> He messed up royal on that one


As a man I could not imagine my SO ever forgiving for that. I think OP's hubby is veerry lucky to have a women who is willing to offer up so freely and unlimited. 

I have seen a lot of the posts give suggestions on trying this and trying that to accommodate him and get him in the mood. It is like a springbok trying to get a lion to chase it. :scratchhead:

At some point I think H needs a stern talking to. He needs to realise that there are thousands of men who would give anything to be in his position with their spouses, and he is just wasting it


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

*


Ntsikzo said:



there are thousands of men who would give anything to be in his position with their spouses

Click to expand...

*At this point in time, given the new information, I think you really need to take this into consideration. 

It's true and I now think you're fighting a losing battle... 

I read your recent posts about how he has rejected you and can't come to any other conclusion. It's disgusting IMO!


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening TheCuriousWife
That sounds so miserably familiar. Not wanting to get your hopes up. Every attempt at initiation you are braced for rejection. You want to trust that he will respond - but you cannot. By the time sex happens you have worked so hard to guard your feelings against rejection that its difficult to relax and enjoy. Then you are always worried you might do something wrong - something that will drive your partner away again. The worry about rejection continues throughout the act. 










TheCuriousWife said:


> What the heck.  I'm sitting here crying because I want to have sex but I'm afraid.
> 
> I'm afraid if I go shower now and be ready and waiting for him when he gets home that he will turn me down because he will want dinner first, or want to do something outside while there is sun. I'll be crushed if I'm naked and he doesn't act the least bit interested. Or will tell me his typical "in a minute" while he plays on his phone first.
> 
> I'm afraid I won't be able to get in the mood. I'm afraid it will be boring.
> 
> Sex isn't suppose to be this complicated.
> 
> And now I'm upset because I want to have sex, but how in the heck am I suppose to be in the mood when I'm sitting here crying. Arg. Emotions. Sometimes I want to slap myself.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He won't do it. Too conservative. He was leery about me buying a sex book with detailed CARTOON pictures in it.
> 
> I bought it anyway.
> 
> Maybe I can suggest a movie tonight that just happens to have a nice little scene in it. Any suggestions?


Dirty Dancing

The Notebook

Titanic

Pretty Woman

Pick a fun movie and watch it together tonight.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



optimalprimus said:


> Hi, I've not read your whole thread, and your husband may be making excuses/blame shifting. BUT......
> 
> Not wanting to be intimate with him unless it fits your idea of sex (no kissing!) and preferring masturbating alone than with him are both red flags about your attitude to sex within this relationship.
> 
> I think you should raise these things with the counsellor too.
> 
> Hope you find a happier place soon.



You would really need to read more of the thread to get better understanding of this situation. CW's attitude towards sex within this relationship is very understandable and completely justified given the context of the situation. I think everyone familiar with this CWs saga will agree CW is definitely not the problem.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> CW... stop settling. Find your own way to happiness.
> 
> (Go ahead folks, lob the 2x4s my way... I know of which I speak... It's either "there" or it's not...)



Yup. Right you are again, Happy.

:iagree:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Woah, woah, woah. My husband hasn't been rejecting me recently, T&T. That was 2 years ago. I just mentioned it how it taints how I initiate now. 


He has watched Pretty Woman with me, and Titanic. 

I think we will watch the notebook soon. 

I'm not a huge fan of Dirty Dancing.  Sorry Faithful Wife.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's funny because it was the tamest movie I could think of.

I was actually thinking about the touching parts, not the movies, I don't see how you got anything to show him how to touch you and hold you and kiss you etc from Pretty Woman or Titanic?

Just watching a romantic movie, IMO, isn't going to give you guys any instruction.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well last night I did muster up the courage and was waiting when he got home in lace while I slathered lotion on like Anon Pink suggested. I'll admit, I was scared. 

He did play on his phone for a few minutes, but he really surprised me.

His first words were, "I see panties and I see lube. I guess that means you want to have sex?" I smiled, and what he said next nearly made my jaw drop. "Oh goodie. I was wanting to have sex too."

Hold everything. He was actually looking forward to sex? That is like a first ever. I've never heard goodie and sex in the same sentence before. 

We went on to have some really awesome sex, including a good amount of oral for me, and he even tried to give me a second O, but we forgot we had somewhere to be and had to stop and rush out of the house. We kissed a lot and I did not mind it one bit.

Just hearing that he was excited about sex, instead of dreading it was so hot. That is what I want. We had no O problems and no boring sex, just because of his difference in attitude which changed my attitude. 

Now if we can just unlock the secret to repeat that. 

The counselor has really been trying to get him to work on his attitude. Maybe with enough practice he will be able to conquer the bad thoughts, and he will actually enjoy himself more. Which will make me enjoy it more. 

Thanks for the push to be brave and try again!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Since you're asking for movie suggestions, I posted this in your thread about 10 or so pages back:




happy as a clam said:


> I would seriously suggest doing a YouTube search of the "sexiest movie scenes" and make him watch them with you. Let him see what real PASSION looks like, not just "working hard" for an O.
> 
> Some that come to mind:
> 
> 1. Debra Winger and Richard Gere in "An Officer and a Gentleman"
> 2. Renee Zellweiger and Tom Cruise in "Jerry Maguire"
> 3. Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio in "Titanic"
> 
> Anyone have any other suggestions for hot steamy love scenes?
> 
> Seriously CW, he needs to see the progression of how passsion "builds"... and how both partners are CLEARLY not bored! In fact, quite the opposite. They are excited and in the moment, and both people are trying to please each other.
> 
> Oh well, just a thought...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> That's funny because it was the tamest movie I could think of.
> 
> I was actually thinking about the touching parts, not the movies, I don't see how you got anything to show him how to touch you and hold you and kiss you etc from Pretty Woman or Titanic?
> 
> Just watching a romantic movie, IMO, isn't going to give you guys any instruction.


I wasn't thinking about tame, I just don't care for the plot. lol.

And yeah I guess that's true. The other movies don't have much instruction. I'll do some searching, and find me a nice steamy movie. 

Although I must say, especially after last night. He definitely DOES know how to touch correctly, I think he just chooses not to...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Since you're asking for movie suggestions, I posted this in your thread about 10 or so pages back:


Thanks!

I'll try to find those movies.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'll try to find those movies.


"9 1/2 Weeks" with Kim Bassinger. HOT!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh dear....I don't think they will like that one, Anon.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Oh dear....I don't think they will like that one, Anon.


The kitchen scene could be useful for aversion therapy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Anon you are going to get me in trouble! lol


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What about the scene where he blindfolds her and then has a hooker go down on her? I was kind of thinking Mr. and Mrs. CW wouldn't be into that. lol!


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Although I must say, especially after last night. He definitely DOES know how to touch correctly, I think he just chooses not to...


This is interesting...can you expand on it?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Ntsikzo said:


> I think OP's hubby is veerry lucky to have a women who is willing to offer up so freely and unlimited.
> 
> He needs to realise that there are thousands of men who would give anything to be in his position with their spouses, and he is just wasting it


More than just freely and unlimited... actually *wanted*. That was important in my book.

The trouble with suggesting to him how many people would prefer to be in his position, is that he isn't them. He doesn't have the drive that they do so from his perspective, he isn't wasting anything.

Tough problem. I didn't solve it in my case and don't think I've heard anyone who has.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Although I must say, especially after last night. He definitely DOES know how to touch correctly, I think he just chooses not to...


Another point for "lazy".


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> This is interesting...can you expand on it?


I've always said that.

He knows how to get me aroused, he knows how I like to be touched, he knows I like dirty talk, etc.

But for some reason, he doesn't always do it. When he does, he has good results.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Glad you had success last night! My night was a failure.  Rejected again. 

The Notebook has some steamy love scenes.  There are a lot of others as well: Ghost, Basic Instinct, 40 days and 40 nights, 300, Troy, etc.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I've always said that.
> 
> He knows how to get me aroused, he knows how I like to be touched, he knows I like dirty talk, etc.
> 
> But for some reason, he doesn't always do it. When he does, he has good results.


It is confusing though, because you also say he is clumsy, slobbering, touches too hard, and you make him out to be clueless and in need of instruction. :scratchhead:


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> It is confusing though, because you also say he is clumsy, slobbering, touches too hard, and you make him out to be clueless and in need of instruction. :scratchhead:


:iagree:

This is a bit confusing. CW, you've described him as an unskilled lover in need of much instruction. Now, you seem to be describing him as a competent, yet lazy, Adonis (although I've never personally heard of this )

So, which is it? Or somewhere in between?


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Attitude . If he's into her it feels frantic and hot, if he's not it feels clumsy.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And when she's responding it may encourage him to do more, if not he just gives up, cause he's not so horny he couldn't do without.

Hopefully some day you will be reporting that he realizes what he put you thru and is doing everything in his power to heal that hurt. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. The only tears I find myself crying due to sex lately are tears of healing joy as he puts salve on all my wounds inflicted by his lack of interest. He also has informed me recently how mad and disappointed he would get at himself for not having it anymore, getting so absorbed in that, that he couldn't see my pain until I was bawling. I'm hoping your man will come to the same realization that your wounds are something he needs to heal.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CWs H is not fixable. 






the2ofus said:


> And when she's responding it may encourage him to do more, if not he just gives up, cause he's not so horny he couldn't do without.
> 
> Hopefully some day you will be reporting that he realizes what he put you thru and is doing everything in his power to heal that hurt. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. The only tears I find myself crying due to sex lately are tears of healing joy as he puts salve on all my wounds inflicted by his lack of interest. He also has informed me recently how mad and disappointed he would get at himself for not having it anymore, getting so absorbed in that, that he couldn't see my pain until I was bawling. I'm hoping your man will come to the same realization that your wounds are something he needs to heal.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He's a Geo Metro and she wants a Shelby GT 500.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CWs H is not fixable.


I'm still undecided, I see moments that show possible promise. I also try to remember that if you guys had been reading posts about my husband all coming from my place of hurt a few years back you might have said the same thing. But either way *she can not fix him*, he has to choose to see a problem and fix it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry! I don't mean to confuse. It confuses me too.

Yes he slobbers, yes he is unskilled... most of the time.

But every once in a while, he is different. :scratchhead:

I'm not sure how else to describe it, but occasionally he does everything I want and it knocks my socks off. 

I don't get it either. I'm not joking, every once in a while it's like a switch is flipped and he is just completely different. 

Last night he was gentle, and I didn't have to remind him. Last night he gave me oral and I didn't have to ask. He swallowed when he kissed, and dirty talked. All with no probing from me.

WTH?

I think it's just his attitude. He was horny, so he put more effort into it, or tried harder, or something. I'm not really sure.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> He's a Geo Metro and she wants a Shelby GT 500.


My dad has drove a Geo as long as I've been alive. I think he is on his 5th new one.  Funny.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm sorry! I don't mean to confuse. It confuses me too.
> 
> Yes he slobbers, yes he is unskilled... most of the time.
> 
> But every once in a while, he is different. :scratchhead:
> 
> I'm not sure how else to describe it, but occasionally he does everything I want and it knocks my socks off.
> 
> I don't get it either. I'm not joking, every once in a while it's like a switch is flipped and he is just completely different.
> 
> Last night he was gentle, and I didn't have to remind him. Last night he gave me oral and I didn't have to ask. He swallowed when he kissed, and dirty talked. All with no probing from me.
> 
> WTH?
> 
> I think it's just his attitude. He was horny, so he put more effort into it, or tried harder, or something. I'm not really sure.


Curious, send your husband a text and tell him how much you enjoyed last night, that he did everything just right. Maybe some positive reinforcement will help steer him in the right direction.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Woah, woah, woah. My husband hasn't been rejecting me recently, T&T. That was 2 years ago. I just mentioned it how it taints how I initiate now.


Apologies for the error TCW!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How are things going Curious?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's going okay.

My lifelong pet died last week, so I've been pretty upset. 

Counseling appointment tonight. I have no idea what we are going to talk about. Not much happening. 

Sex just isn't the focus anymore. We've been going longer stretches without, but oddly it's been okay. We've only had sex once since my last post, and it's off the table for at least 4 more days. 

I think I will just push for him to get better about setting the mood, or flirting before hand. And not just deciding to have sex at the last minute before bed. When we are more aroused and not just doing a routine it goes better.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, so very sorry about your pet. I lost a pet not long ago too. I love my dogs and they are a vital part of our family and losing one of them was heartbreaking. Hugs!


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It's going okay.
> 
> My lifelong pet died last week, so I've been pretty upset.
> 
> Counseling appointment tonight. I have no idea what we are going to talk about. Not much happening.
> 
> Sex just isn't the focus anymore. We've been going longer stretches without, but oddly it's been okay. We've only had sex once since my last post, and it's off the table for at least 4 more days.
> 
> I think I will just push for him to get better about setting the mood, or flirting before hand. And not just deciding to have sex at the last minute before bed. When we are more aroused and not just doing a routine it goes better.


Either you two are slowly working out a compromise for a new normal for the sex life, or your libido is dropping to match his. The former is the preferred way if you are still having sex regularly enough, but the latter is dangerous IMHO.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
my condolences. It takes quite a while to get over the death of a pet and it may make everything else in your life seem darker for a bit. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> My lifelong pet died last week, so I've been pretty upset.
> 
> .


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It's going okay.
> 
> My lifelong pet died last week, so I've been pretty upset.
> 
> Counseling appointment tonight. I have no idea what we are going to talk about. Not much happening.
> 
> Sex just isn't the focus anymore. We've been going longer stretches without, but oddly it's been okay. We've only had sex once since my last post, and it's off the table for at least 4 more days.
> 
> I think I will just push for him to get better about setting the mood, or flirting before hand. And not just deciding to have sex at the last minute before bed. When we are more aroused and not just doing a routine it goes better.



I'm so sorry about your pet. I know how that hurts, as do most people.

I think you might want to discuss what his ideas are for what is normal for him, what he thinks his role is as husband with regard to sex, and his ideal sexual life.

As has been said, your H is unlikely to change, or to sustain a change. Understanding the details of what he think is normal, what his normal is, how firm he feels about his normal will be more productively revealing than working on him not slobbering or being proactive with regard to mood.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I agree with anon, there might be a case where the both of you biologically do not even come close to matching sexually, plus people have a self-protective mechanism to protect their identity, their ego. By admitting there is something potentially wrong with him, he might see himself as defective.

So people who hide behind walls, can only see what their actions do in the small cracks that they have created. All those years of sh1t is hiding behind those walls, and they want no one to see it or acknowledge it.

Sometimes, when they are confronted with the truth, they build bigger walls because it is how they cope or respond.

Sorry for your pet lost, losing a pet for some is close to losing a close family friend or close to a child. It is still a loss of a bond.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The counselor has tried to get him to talk about his ideal, or what he thinks as normal.

He didn't really have an answer. 

I think it was along the lines of "sex will just happens when it happens."


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And yes. My pet was my baby. I spent all day every day with him. I work from home, so he was on my lap at least 8 hours a day. He slept in my bed, etc.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And yes. My pet was my baby. I spent all day every day with him. I work from home, so he was on my lap at least 8 hours a day. He slept in my bed, etc.



So sorry CW on the loss of your fur baby. My little guys are all like my 'kids' as well, and I know from personal experience the intense pain of losing them. Your little guy was lucky to have such a caring and devoted "momma".


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, how did the counseling session go?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Went well. The counselor really seems to have a grasp on what our issues are. She is funny, blunt, and a little crazy. She tells your just how it is, and will make you uncomfortable or call you out. I like her. She really does remind me of Anon Pink. 

She had a basic plan written out about what our goals are, and what we want to accomplish with counseling that I think are spot on. 

Overall I think it is helping us communicate and figure out what the heck we want. Husband is equally as satisfied with the counseling, although he still whines about the drive every time.

Our biggest issues are out of the bedroom. Initiating, affection, flirting, desire. So she is trying to get us to work through that. 

She also mentioned something about giving us the resources to learn tantric sex, or sensate focus, or whatever it is called, in the future. 

She did say that having sex twice a week is above average. Which I don't really agree with. Oh course husband turned and smirked at me, and she reminded him that it's not about averages, it's about the individual couple.


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

When the average isn't healthy, go higher! &#55357;&#56833;

Very good to hear you got a keeper for a counselor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> She did say that having sex twice a week is above average. Which I don't really agree with. Oh course husband turned and smirked at me, and she reminded him that it's not about averages, it's about the individual couple.


I'd ask for a clarification on that one - twice a week is above average for a 20's something couple with no kids? Maybe but I don't think so. 

Granted, add a child or two and all bets are off. Also, how many of those < twice a week couples with two earners is it the guy that is the limiting factor. I know, some TAM women will slam me for that one but I just find it really odd. 

Now, having said that. My wife and I haven't had sex twice in one week on any sort of sustained basis (it happens as a fluke occasionally generally followed by a week or two off!) since we were dating and for perhaps the first year or two after we got married. So not in the past 16 years. Magically correlates with pregnancy as well BTW...


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> I'd ask for a clarification on that one - twice a week is above average for a 20's something couple with no kids? Maybe but I don't think so.


She's right, but it's more about the statistical nature of it - the true mean isn't very informative/useful. There is an upper bound for sexual frequency. There isn't so much of a lower bound. There are people who don't have sex for months, even years, and there are people who have sex daily or more, but there's only so much time available. So the extreme for lack of sex outweighs the extreme of having sex a lot, thus pulling down the mean.

You get a more informative picture when you drop the extremes - the outliers, which raises the number a bit. The picture becomes even clearer when you take the mean by demographic.

It's still not very useful though, because saying "this is the average" isn't going to make someone want more or less sex. It just says they want more/less than average. Now you just have external leverage to beat them over the head with, which they'll probably resent.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Tantric sex may be a good resource. If he can orgasm without ejaculation he may be able to go more often. Plus just the focus may bring about a new fun growing together experience for you two


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Husband is gone for the weekend, and without my fur-baby it is terribly quiet and lonely.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*


----------



## Eastcoasting

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, Perhaps if would be a good time for you to have some private "me time" 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr.Fisty

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Time to find some hobbies girlfriend, or something to do. AS a joke, even if your husband was around,, you will most likely just have a staring contest without any purpose. You would offer sex, and then he would complain that it was only three weeks ago, what do you expect, an animal!

You would go off and make a cup of tea, and ask him if he will like any, and in which he will reply, I prefer coffee. You don't make it to how he likes it, but he keeps quiet. Conversation will mean talking about his emotions.

You then ask him to at least have a make out session, in case he has a lot of saliva built up, and that is how far he is willing to go to be dirty. Inside his head, he will congratulate himself on being a dirty boy.

Sorry about that, have you thought about adopting animals that need a loving home, or doing volunteer work.

If my humor is too crass, it is okay to tell me to shut up!


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It secretly is me.... That's why the sessions are going so well. And why I'm charging an arm and a leg. Put up or shut up baby!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mr.Fisty said:


> Time to find some hobbies girlfriend, or something to do. AS a joke, even if your husband was around,, you will most likely just have a staring contest without any purpose. You would offer sex, and then he would complain that it was only three weeks ago, what do you expect, an animal!
> 
> You would go off and make a cup of tea, and ask him if he will like any, and in which he will reply, I prefer coffee. You don't make it to how he likes it, but he keeps quiet. Conversation will mean talking about his emotions.
> 
> You then ask him to at least have a make out session, in case he has a lot of saliva built up, and that is how far he is willing to go to be dirty. Inside his head, he will congratulate himself on being a dirty boy.
> 
> Sorry about that, have you thought about adopting animals that need a loving home, or doing volunteer work.
> 
> If my humor is too crass, it is okay to tell me to shut up!


:lol:

I have hobbies actually. 

And I have about 50 animals. So I'm certainly not bored. 

I stayed out until after 11pm last night, and I am going out to eat and shopping today. But night time is still lonely without a kitty to snuggle.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anon pink said:


> it secretly is me.... That's why the sessions are going so well. And why i'm charging an arm and a leg. Put up or shut up baby! :d


Yes!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Went well. The counselor really seems to have a grasp on what our issues are. She is funny, blunt, and a little crazy. She tells your just how it is, and will make you uncomfortable or call you out. I like her. She really does remind me of Anon Pink.
> 
> *Yup, your counselor is Anon Pink. This is her real job. Just keep it quiet.*
> 
> She had a basic plan written out about what our goals are, and what we want to accomplish with counseling that I think are spot on.
> 
> Overall I think it is helping us communicate and figure out what the heck we want. Husband is equally as satisfied with the counseling, although he still whines about the drive every time.
> 
> Our biggest issues are out of the bedroom. Initiating, affection, flirting, desire. So she is trying to get us to work through that.
> 
> She also mentioned something about giving us the resources to learn tantric sex, or sensate focus, or whatever it is called, in the future.
> 
> She did say that having sex twice a week is above average. Which I don't really agree with. Oh course husband turned and smirked at me, and she reminded him that it's not about averages, it's about the individual couple.


Average frequencies vary a lot, and although it is always tempting to look at them and say "I want to be average or more than average etc." it just is so different from time to time and couple to couple. I have checked out a lot of books from the library looking for the "average." And there is no real average in my opinion. There is a want for more or less.

Your goal should be to bring your flirting and desire frequency up, way UP. Several times a day at least. Does your councilor think that the frequency of flirting and desire, passion times are way too low?


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm going to call total bullshlt on the counselor regarding the 2/week comment. 

It's the exact same nonsense used in defining 'normal' testosterone ranges. If you combine the normal ranges for men aged 20 to 80 you get a range that's meaningless. 

You are a physically healthy, childless couple in their mid twenties. It sure seems as if your H was doing everything possible to find the minimum frequency you would tolerate. 

And his thinly veiled intention to use the presence of children as an excuse for avoiding sex - is very scary. 

So overall she seems solid - but that comment was super unhelpful. It reinforces your husbands belief that he's 'normal' and you're abnormal. 

There's a reason he won't answer the question regarding his ideal sex life.....




TheCuriousWife said:


> Went well. The counselor really seems to have a grasp on what our issues are. She is funny, blunt, and a little crazy. She tells your just how it is, and will make you uncomfortable or call you out. I like her. She really does remind me of Anon Pink.
> 
> She had a basic plan written out about what our goals are, and what we want to accomplish with counseling that I think are spot on.
> 
> Overall I think it is helping us communicate and figure out what the heck we want. Husband is equally as satisfied with the counseling, although he still whines about the drive every time.
> 
> Our biggest issues are out of the bedroom. Initiating, affection, flirting, desire. So she is trying to get us to work through that.
> 
> She also mentioned something about giving us the resources to learn tantric sex, or sensate focus, or whatever it is called, in the future.
> 
> She did say that having sex twice a week is above average. Which I don't really agree with. Oh course husband turned and smirked at me, and she reminded him that it's not about averages, it's about the individual couple.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I think it sounds like it is going well. A lot of spouses who are the one who got dragged to counseling don't even try as hard as CW's H is, MEM. He is going. He is talking at all.

I think his main problem is that he somewhere along the line got the idea that people shouldn't think about sex, and probably shouldn't have it, because there's a lot of shame and guilt surrounding it....and then he just never questioned this position once he adopted it. 

He was probably very young when he adopted it, and now here he is as an adult, having sex for the first time in his life and also being forced to talk about it. It is all very new to him. That seems odd to many of us, but he was raised very very sheltered and is still very young.

He may even have low T in response to that long term attitude he has held. If you psyche yourself into being so LD that your body senses it, it is quite possible to flip that switch off entirely. He did that the first time he ever felt sexual urges, and then he forgot to ever flip it back on.

Give him some time in counseling. He's GOING and for that alone, he gets a bunch of big gold stars.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> I'm going to call total bullshlt on the counselor regarding the 2/week comment.
> 
> It's the exact same nonsense used in defining 'normal' testosterone ranges. If you combine the normal ranges for men aged 20 to 80 you get a range that's meaningless.
> 
> You are a physically healthy, childless couple in their mid twenties. It sure seems as if your H was doing everything possible to find the minimum frequency you would tolerate.
> 
> And his thinly veiled intention to use the presence of children as an excuse for avoiding sex - is very scary.
> 
> So overall she seems solid - but that comment was super unhelpful. It reinforces your husbands belief that he's 'normal' and you're abnormal.
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> about the councelors conjecture. Not true. Bet she didnt use age correlated empirical data to back her up. Seat of the pants.
> 
> There's a reason he won't answer the question regarding his ideal sex life.....


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

FW,
This is an area where I lack any meaningful data specific to his type situation. I don't have a set of cases similar to his, with actual outcomes. 

He 'acts' like a guy who has a very small appetite for a very limited set of sexual activities. 

Probably be fine with one way sex - blowjobs once or twice a week. 

Doesn't seem real keen on intercourse (based on his ED issues). Acts as if he dislikes giving oral. Since she likes it so much, he likes receiving so much and yet he gives so little.....

Super resistant to even trying T therapy. 

So yes, it's a good sign he's going to counseling. My concern is that he sees going as a means of showing commitment. 

Whereas I see going as the visible part of the iceberg. Great start, as long as you demonstrate strong follow through on the exercises and homework you are given. 

My gestalt on C2 is: Overall he loves CW. If he could limit sex to 1-2 a month and mainly restrict it to the activities he likes, that's what he would do.

It's why I believe he will continue to strongly resist answering the question: What would be an ideal sex life for you? 



Faithful Wife said:


> I think it sounds like it is going well. A lot of spouses who are the one who got dragged to counseling don't even try as hard as CW's H is, MEM. He is going. He is talking at all.
> 
> I think his main problem is that he somewhere along the line got the idea that people shouldn't think about sex, and probably shouldn't have it, because there's a lot of shame and guilt surrounding it....and then he just never questioned this position once he adopted it.
> 
> He was probably very young when he adopted it, and now here he is as an adult, having sex for the first time in his life and also being forced to talk about it. It is all very new to him. That seems odd to many of us, but he was raised very very sheltered and is still very young.
> 
> He may even have low T in response to that long term attitude he has held. If you psyche yourself into being so LD that your body senses it, it is quite possible to flip that switch off entirely. He did that the first time he ever felt sexual urges, and then he forgot to ever flip it back on.
> 
> Give him some time in counseling. He's GOING and for that alone, he gets a bunch of big gold stars.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

MEM, I agree with you in the sense that in order for CW to get what she truly seeks, he is going to have to change himself at a core level and he most likely won't be able to.

So yes, we're both seeing that part the same.

But CW isn't ready to walk yet. She feels he is trying. Until she is ready to walk, nothing is going to help her except encouragement. She is going to try everything she can, she won't stop until she has done that. 

So while she is still totally in the game, I don't think it is right to just keep predicting the assumed outcome that you think will become her future. It isn't relevant to her at this time. She will not be persuaded by that.

She loves him, she's his wife, she isn't walking away until she is really giving up...and that's a long way off.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Average frequencies vary a lot, and although it is always tempting to look at them and say "I want to be average or more than average etc." it just is so different from time to time and couple to couple. I have checked out a lot of books from the library looking for the "average." And there is no real average in my opinion. There is a want for more or less.
> 
> Your goal should be to bring your flirting and desire frequency up, way UP. Several times a day at least. Does your councilor think that the frequency of flirting and desire, passion times are way too low?


Yes. That is what she wants us to work on. Flirting, desire, initiations, affection, etc.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> So sorry, Curious
> 
> I know you'll have heard of this before; but as soon as you can; get a new fur baby. So many need good loving homes (I'm sure you know that also).
> 
> I'm guessing this was the cat you had since childhood.?? That's a big loss. Maybe make a scrapbook about her/him; or a little "shrine" in a quite corner somewhere, with kitties ashes in an urn and cute pictures in nice frames.
> 
> They get a hold of your heart, that's for sure.


Yes.  I can't even remember a time without him, I've had him since I was so young. 

I'm getting a kitty hopefully in the next couple months. Looking for that special one.


----------



## pidge70

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm sorry about your kitty CW. I am glad however that your H has been giving counseling a shot. I truly hope this works out for you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> I'm going to call total bullshlt on the counselor regarding the 2/week comment.
> 
> It's the exact same nonsense used in defining 'normal' testosterone ranges. If you combine the normal ranges for men aged 20 to 80 you get a range that's meaningless.
> 
> You are a physically healthy, childless couple in their mid twenties. It sure seems as if your H was doing everything possible to find the minimum frequency you would tolerate.
> 
> And his thinly veiled intention to use the presence of children as an excuse for avoiding sex - is very scary.
> 
> So overall she seems solid - but that comment was super unhelpful. It reinforces your husbands belief that he's 'normal' and you're abnormal.
> 
> There's a reason he won't answer the question regarding his ideal sex life.....


I do agree that her comment was bologna and did not help anything at all.

BUT. You do have to look at it from her point of view. Most of the people she sees are husband's with LD wives, who are only having sex once a month or less. Compared to them, yes, we are above average.

Compared to other young couples in their twenties, I find it highly improbable that they are only having sex once a week. I know most of my friends aren't.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



pidge70 said:


> I'm sorry about your kitty CW. I am glad however that your H has been giving counseling a shot. I truly hope this works out for you.


Thanks.

Sorry to hear about your brother.  

So glad TAM has stepped up to support you in this rough time.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hmm, I am the same age as you, and personally, I do not know anyone with that level of sex either.

The scary part is he should be near his prime, and it is not going to get any better.

Your sex drive will only increase once you hit your thirties.

I was thinking about you doing a sexy strip tease, and as soon as your fully naked, there is a do not enter sign staring back at him. Then you go straight to sleep, leaving him hanging. :lol:

Have you tried asking him for an open marriage? If that is not something your into, then there is no point. Reason, you can get your sexual needs met elsewhere, and your relationship needs met with your husband. It will offer to take the pressure off of him as well.

There are risks involved, but he will eventually risk losing you in the future if this continues. Your biological needs will change in the future, and right now is going to be as good as it gets.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mr.Fisty said:


> Hmm, I am the same age as you, and personally, I do not know anyone with that level of sex either.
> 
> The scary part is he should be near his prime, and it is not going to get any better.
> 
> Your sex drive will only increase once you hit your thirties.
> 
> I was thinking about you doing a sexy strip tease, and as soon as your fully naked, there is a do not enter sign staring back at him. Then you go straight to sleep, leaving him hanging. :lol:
> 
> Have you tried asking him for an open marriage? If that is not something your into, then there is no point. Reason, you can get your sexual needs met elsewhere, and your relationship needs met with your husband. It will offer to take the pressure off of him as well.
> 
> There are risks involved, but he will eventually risk losing you in the future if this continues. Your biological needs will change in the future, and right now is going to be as good as it gets.


I am not interested in an open marriage.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. That is what she wants us to work on. Flirting, desire, initiations, affection, etc.


I think it's a good thing that the counselor is focusing on this part of it.

Sex is one thing, but sex without flirting, attraction, passion, and the build-up to it is a whole other thing.

For me personally, it's the anticipation of it all that makes sex so wonderful. It's knowing that he's been thinking about it, I've been thinking about it, we've been flirting and showing affection, and when we finally are together it makes it that much sweeter and more satisfying. I hope Mr. CW can figure this part of it out. 

Is it starting to feel more natural to do the "exercises" from the counselor? Or does it feel awkward?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> I think it's a good thing that the counselor is focusing on this part of it.
> 
> Sex is one thing, but sex without flirting, attraction, passion, and the build-up to it is a whole other thing.
> 
> For me personally, it's the anticipation of it all that makes sex so wonderful. It's knowing that he's been thinking about it, I've been thinking about it, we've been flirting and showing affection, and when we finally are together it makes it that much sweeter and more satisfying. I hope Mr. CW can figure this part of it out.
> 
> Is it starting to feel more natural to do the "exercises" from the counselor? Or does it feel awkward?


Yes, I want that build up and excitement. I also want to know he has been thinking about it. Which I mentioned last time.

A little awkward, but it's being less so each time we meet her.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What happy is suggesting is dating each other again, the reason why the two of you got married. Bring back that element that seems to be missing as of right now.

In the romantic stage of love, the sexual drive is a lot higher. I am guessing there was a time where communication, and forming a connection was a lot easier. The romantic love motivates us to put that effort in.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mr.Fisty said:


> What happy is suggesting is dating each other again, the reason why the two of you got married. Bring back that element that seems to be missing as of right now.
> 
> In the romantic stage of love, the sexual drive is a lot higher. I am guessing there was a time where communication, and forming a connection was a lot easier. The romantic love motivates us to put that effort in.


I'm not sure that we ever had "romantic love." 

His sex drive was never higher. It's always been this way. I remember the 2nd day we had sex. He was already turning me down. After the 2nd time in 24 hours he couldn't physically go again. We spent a lot of our honeymoon laying on a couch and watching tv.

Red flag.

We were young and inexperienced. I thought we just needed to learn each other, relax, things would work out in time. But they didn't.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
I'm so sorry about your cat. When our previous cat died we found a cat rescue place and got two kittens - they are about 5yo now. We are continuing or efforts to make them the most spoiled cats in the world. (I swear my wife orders stuff from Amazon just to get the more boxes ) 



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes.  I can't even remember a time without him, I've had him since I was so young.
> 
> I'm getting a kitty hopefully in the next couple months. Looking for that special one.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
with averages, "sex" can cover a lot of ground. Is is a quick fck, or BJ, or is it hours spent in bed? 

I really don't think #times/week is a good indicator. What matters is finding something that works for both - if that exists.





fightforher said:


> Average frequencies vary a lot, and although it is always tempting to look at them and say "I want to be average or more than average etc." it just is so different from time to time and couple to couple. I have checked out a lot of books from the library looking for the "average." And there is no real average in my opinion. There is a want for more or less.
> 
> Your goal should be to bring your flirting and desire frequency up, way UP. Several times a day at least. Does your councilor think that the frequency of flirting and desire, passion times are way too low?


----------



## Mr.Fisty

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am guessing he never had the honeymoon phase with you, but it sounds like you had it for him. It is the stage where you cannot get enough of the other person, where the couple tries and meet the others need. The reason why the sex is rampant, is because of the dopamine.

Curious, you need to find out if he ever had a strong level of attraction, or was it more of a friendship love.

Some people do marry people that they never had a romantic love for, and there are some threads on this site. They question if they should tell their SO that they were never in love, that there has never been an attraction, and how to tell their spouse that they want to leave.

Your still young,and the longer you wait to find out, the more time you waste on chasing something that has a low probability of working out if there was never that in love romance feeling. We are all dopamine addicts, we are motivated to seek it, and the romantic love stage releases a lot of it.

Like spending time with your fur baby, it releases bonding hormones, and the dopamine that is connected to it, makes you want to keep bonding with your fur baby.

Sweet and fatty foods also release dopamine, we get a small high from eating things like chocolate, ice cream, and steak.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> I believed in the "it gets better with time" myth. I learned it's not true. I hope this helps anyone else who might read this; and let them know to not count on things being better in "the future", if they are not working out now.


Another one here whose husband had PE issues. Despite counseling, it never got better in our case, either . They gave him and us all kinds of exercises to try to prolong it before ejaculation, but they didn't work for him.

Honestly, looking back I don't think he wanted them to work.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mr.Fisty said:


> I am guessing he never had the honeymoon phase with you, but it sounds like you had it for him. It is the stage where you cannot get enough of the other person, where the couple tries and meet the others need. The reason why the sex is rampant, is because of the dopamine.
> 
> Curious, you need to find out if he ever had a strong level of attraction, or was it more of a friendship love.
> 
> Some people do marry people that they never had a romantic love for, and there are some threads on this site. They question if they should tell their SO that they were never in love, that there has never been an attraction, and how to tell their spouse that they want to leave.
> 
> Your still young,and the longer you wait to find out, the more time you waste on chasing something that has a low probability of working out if there was never that in love romance feeling. We are all dopamine addicts, we are motivated to seek it, and the romantic love stage releases a lot of it.
> 
> Like spending time with your fur baby, it releases bonding hormones, and the dopamine that is connected to it, makes you want to keep bonding with your fur baby.
> 
> Sweet and fatty foods also release dopamine, we get a small high from eating things like chocolate, ice cream, and steak.



I know he loves me. Even the counselor commented that we seem to have a very deep love for one another. Which she said is rare for most of the couples she sees going through issues. 

He is attracted to me. Just not at the sexual level that I am. But that isn't constricted to me. He just isn't a sexual person. He doesn't see the big deal about it. Sex is just kind of meh to him. It's fun, but not something that he gives a lot of thought to.

I KNOW he doesn't want to leave. The last thing he wants is for us to separate. Which is why he is willing to go to counseling.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> :iagree: Boy, does it ever. I feel *wonderful* during and for a while after cuddling my cats.
> 
> They are now my only steady source of cuddles and affection. I'd be bereft without them.


:iagree:

And I held that dang cat 8 hours a day. So I'm sorely lacking in my normal affection and snuggling.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> I think it sounds like it is going well. A lot of spouses who are the one who got dragged to counseling don't even try as hard as CW's H is, MEM. He is going. He is talking at all.
> 
> *I think his main problem is that he somewhere along the line got the idea that people shouldn't think about sex, and probably shouldn't have it, because there's a lot of shame and guilt surrounding it....and then he just never questioned this position once he adopted it.
> 
> He was probably very young when he adopted it, and now here he is as an adult, having sex for the first time in his life and also being forced to talk about it. It is all very new to him. That seems odd to many of us, but he was raised very very sheltered and is still very young.
> 
> He may even have low T in response to that long term attitude he has held. If you psyche yourself into being so LD that your body senses it, it is quite possible to flip that switch off entirely. He did that the first time he ever felt sexual urges, and then he forgot to ever flip it back on.*
> 
> Give him some time in counseling. He's GOING and for that alone, he gets a bunch of big gold stars.


I'm thinking there's a good chance this is it. I've seen it many times from the opposite side of the woman being the one with the issue and I have seen it resolved. The guilt and shame can make someone a not very sexual person and it can be changed but only by breaking that bond of the guilt and shame.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm not sure that we ever had "romantic love."
> 
> His sex drive was never higher. It's always been this way. I remember the 2nd day we had sex. He was already turning me down. After the 2nd time in 24 hours he couldn't physically go again. We spent a lot of our honeymoon laying on a couch and watching tv.
> 
> Red flag.
> 
> We were young and inexperienced. I thought we just needed to learn each other, relax, things would work out in time. But they didn't.


You guys never played the game to see how many times you could have sex in one day, where you may have had it 3, 4 or more times during the day? Wife and I never did that either, but I had the chance to test my stamina with the last GF before the wife.  Unfortunately for us, we never had an official honeymoon either so that was a factor for why we never tried to do that when we were young.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> You guys never played the game to see how many times you could have sex in one day, where you may have had it 3, 4 or more times during the day? Wife and I never did that either, but I had the chance to test my stamina with the last GF before the wife.  Unfortunately for us, we never had an official honeymoon either so that was a factor for why we never tried to do that when we were young.


Yes we did. The 2nd day of the honeymoon. Which when we tried for the 3rd time, he couldn't achieve an erection at all, and got very upset. 

He won't put himself in that situation again.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Why is sex so darn embarrassing sometimes? 

We hadn't had sex for over a week. He gets home, I'm naked. After he plays on his phone for 10 minutes he finally looks up and says, "Oh I guess the no clothes is an invitation?" 

Fast forward, we try to have sex. He wants me on top, but he's telling me how to position and it's not working. He is giving no feedback, except to to criticize that I'm not doing it correctly. His hands are behind his head and he looks very bored and dissatisfied. I try to move and change to what I think he is trying to get me to achieve, but he keeps loosing his erection, and the look on his face says it's my fault. Finally he says, "Why can't you just do it right? It's not that hard." 

I really feel like telling him to shut it, and getting off by this point. But I just take control and do it how I want to. Which works better for a little while. 

We switch to couple other positions which all end up loosing his erection as well. Fun times. All the while I'm thinking, really we haven't had sex for a week, and I'm still not arousing enough for you to stay hard. Boo.

We eventually did get him there, not me. By then, honestly, I was just wanting it to be over. It was hurting, and I was feeling pretty sour. This of course, all adds to my self consciousness. I don't like being on top anymore. I can never do it right. Every time I just feel judged, and stupid.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

One issue is my physical problems. (Which had nothing to do with the other day, but it causes issues most times.) I have breathing problems (which he complains about a lot) if I'm laying flat. And if my legs are spread too far apart for a while, my joints start hurting a lot, especially my hips. Almost enough to make me cry out. I try to suffer through it, but after a while I have to move or change positions. This is really a damper, and is limiting. It makes him upset, like I'm doing it on purpose, or using it as an excuse. 

Besides the fact that it's nearly impossible to orgasm when every thrust just makes you go ouch. 

Any ideas or how to work around this? I really feel sorry for the older folks, or people with more serious injuries. How in the heck do they find a comfortable position? Nearly all of them hurt me, including my favorite one.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Ugh, your husband makes me sooooo MAD!! How dare he say those things to you??? I don't know how you do it Curious, I would have probably had a few choice words for him if I had been you. Geez - the immaturity of some people.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> One issue is my physical problems. (Which had nothing to do with the other day, but it causes issues most times.) I have breathing problems (which he complains about a lot) if I'm laying flat. And if my legs are spread too far apart for a while, my joints start hurting a lot, especially my hips. Almost enough to make me cry out. I try to suffer through it, but after a while I have to move or change positions. This is really a damper, and is limiting. It makes him upset, like I'm doing it on purpose, or using it as an excuse.
> 
> Besides the fact that it's nearly impossible to orgasm when every thrust just makes you go ouch.
> 
> Any ideas or how to work around this? I really feel sorry for the older folks, or people with more serious injuries. How in the heck do they find a comfortable position? Nearly all of them hurt me, including my favorite one.


NSFW

List of All Sex Positions


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes we did. The 2nd day of the honeymoon. Which when we tried for the 3rd time, he couldn't achieve an erection at all, and got very upset.
> 
> He won't put himself in that situation again.


The only reason I ask is because I think this is like a proxy of how a guy will react and perform down the road. If he can't get past 2 successful times to ejaculate when he's in his early 20s, then I can't see him ever being a sexual dynamo as he ages.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Ugh, your husband makes me sooooo MAD!! How dare he say those things to you??? I don't know how you do it Curious, *I would have probably had a few choice words for him if I had been you.* Geez - the immaturity of some people.


Like, "well you haven't been able to do it right since we've been married so I guess maybe it is that hard" or "no it's not that hard, that's the problem" or "if you think you can do better, go fvck yourself" 

And those are some of the nicer things I might have said.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Like, "well you haven't been able to do it right since we've been married so I guess maybe it is that hard" or "no it's not that hard, that's the problem" or "if you think you can do better, go fvck yourself"
> 
> And those are some of the nicer things I might have said.


:lol:

Oh my gosh. I wish I was this witty and quick thinking! He would have been shocked.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Why doesn't he just _try the Viagra sample _the doctor gave him? _Its not that hard._

Sorry, but this guy is real piece of work. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> Why is sex so darn embarrassing sometimes?
> 
> We hadn't had sex for over a week. He gets home, I'm naked. After he plays on his phone for 10 minutes he finally looks up and says, "Oh I guess the no clothes is an invitation?"
> 
> Fast forward, we try to have sex. He wants me on top, but he's telling me how to position and it's not working. He is giving no feedback, except to to criticize that I'm not doing it correctly. His hands are behind his head and he looks very bored and dissatisfied. I try to move and change to what I think he is trying to get me to achieve, but he keeps loosing his erection, and the look on his face says it's my fault. Finally he says, "Why can't you just do it right? It's not that hard."
> 
> I really feel like telling him to shut it, and getting off by this point. But I just take control and do it how I want to. Which works better for a little while.
> 
> We switch to couple other positions which all end up loosing his erection as well. Fun times. All the while I'm thinking, really we haven't had sex for a week, and I'm still not arousing enough for you to stay hard. Boo.
> 
> We eventually did get him there, not me. By then, honestly, I was just wanting it to be over. It was hurting, and I was feeling pretty sour. This of course, all adds to my self consciousness. I don't like being on top anymore. I can never do it right. Every time I just feel judged, and stupid.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Why is sex so darn embarrassing sometimes?
> 
> We hadn't had sex for over a week. He gets home, I'm naked. After he plays on his phone for 10 minutes he finally looks up and says, "Oh I guess the no clothes is an invitation?"
> 
> Fast forward, we try to have sex. He wants me on top, but he's telling me how to position and it's not working. He is giving no feedback, except to to criticize that I'm not doing it correctly. His hands are behind his head and he looks very bored and dissatisfied. I try to move and change to what I think he is trying to get me to achieve, but he keeps loosing his erection, and the look on his face says it's my fault. Finally he says, "Why can't you just do it right? It's not that hard."
> 
> I really feel like telling him to shut it, and getting off by this point. But I just take control and do it how I want to. Which works better for a little while.
> 
> We switch to couple other positions which all end up loosing his erection as well. Fun times. All the while I'm thinking, really we haven't had sex for a week, and I'm still not arousing enough for you to stay hard. Boo.
> 
> We eventually did get him there, not me. By then, honestly, I was just wanting it to be over. It was hurting, and I was feeling pretty sour. This of course, all adds to my self consciousness. I don't like being on top anymore. I can never do it right. Every time I just feel judged, and stupid.


Okay, this is interesting. There are only so many ways you can do it with you on top. What is he asking for? What are you doing?


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I have breathing problems *(which he complains about a lot)* if I'm laying flat.


TCW, this is insane! You have a physical, permanent, ailment and he COMPLAINS about it?!

Doesn't this PISS you off? 

He should be supportive and work very hard to make things as comfortable as possible for you. Not fvcking complain about it!


----------



## Holdingontoit

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Another one here whose husband had PE issues. (


Husband here who had PE issues when I was younger. That was the best part of sex for my wife: that it ended quickly.

Now I have ED issues. So we don't have sex at all. She is happier, more affectionate and more complimentary toward me than she has been at any time in our marriage.

It is definitely the case that sometimes one of the spouses is secretly hoping the sex problems do NOT work themselves out.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening thecurious wife
ARGH!

Sex is supposed to be fun. If one position isn't working, then either person can suggest something new. I'd never ever complain about something my wife was doing in bed - if it wasn't working for me I might suggest something different, but never an an disparaging fashion.

Physical issues can be a problem, but if both try you can work around them. My wife hurt one of her knees recently so positions with her on top (of of our favorites) don't work now - so we are trying different things.

If he looses his erection, that is just a cue for him to use fingers or mouth until it comes back.





TheCuriousWife said:


> One issue is my physical problems. (Which had nothing to do with the other day, but it causes issues most times.) I have breathing problems (which he complains about a lot) if I'm laying flat. And if my legs are spread too far apart for a while, my joints start hurting a lot, especially my hips. Almost enough to make me cry out. I try to suffer through it, but after a while I have to move or change positions. This is really a damper, and is limiting. It makes him upset, like I'm doing it on purpose, or using it as an excuse.
> 
> Besides the fact that it's nearly impossible to orgasm when every thrust just makes you go ouch.
> 
> Any ideas or how to work around this? I really feel sorry for the older folks, or people with more serious injuries. How in the heck do they find a comfortable position? Nearly all of them hurt me, including my favorite one.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm wondering how he could possibly lose a hard on with you naked on top of him. Your husband really has some serious problems.


----------



## larry.gray

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Any ideas or how to work around this? I really feel sorry for the older folks, or people with more serious injuries. How in the heck do they find a comfortable position? Nearly all of them hurt me, including my favorite one.


It was a few years ago now, but I fell off a ladder and messed up my knee and my back. It ruled out me on top or me on bottom.

We tried all three of these:

Intersextion Sex Position
Scissors Sex Position
Side to Side Sex Position

We liked all of them until I was better.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I'm wondering how he could possibly lose a hard on with you naked on top of him. Your husband really has some serious problems.



Bingo! Therapist question....


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> Why doesn't he just _try the Viagra sample _the doctor gave him? _Its not that hard._
> 
> Sorry, but this guy is real piece of work.


I pushed for him to use it last night, and he got upset. He doesn't have a reason he just says, "I just don't want to, and if you were a guy you would understand."

Understand what, that you don't care enough to swallow your pride? 

Finally when we started making out he was like, "okay I guess I'll try it." Uh too late now bub.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Okay, this is interesting. There are only so many ways you can do it with you on top. What is he asking for? What are you doing?


Oh it was just simple logistics. How he wanted me to sit, and how he wanted me to thrust. It wasn't working, and so it was my fault he was loosing his erection.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> TCW, this is insane! You have a physical, permanent, ailment and he COMPLAINS about it?!
> 
> Doesn't this PISS you off?
> 
> He should be supportive and work very hard to make things as comfortable as possible for you. Not fvcking complain about it!


I can see why it upsets him. It upsets me too. 

But it does hurt my feelings when he complains about it. I find myself saying sorry when I can't breathe and need to move, or when I'm coughing in the middle of sex. It's definitely not very arousing to have to stop and sit up. 

He thinks I use it as an excuse not to kiss. Because it's nearly impossible to kiss laying down. 

Also I do cough more when we have sex than I normally do, so I guess he thinks I'm faking it. :scratchhead: The increased heartbeat, laying flat, not being able to get much air when kissing, the exercise, all contribute, and I'm certainly not making it up. 

I hate being sick. It's leaks into everything in my life. Sitting here right now I'm struggling to breathe. It's not like I can help it.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

A whole buncha hugs sent to you Curious.................


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



larry.gray said:


> It was a few years ago now, but I fell off a ladder and messed up my need and my back. It ruled out me on top or me on bottom.
> 
> We tried all three of these:
> 
> Intersextion Sex Position
> Scissors Sex Position
> Side to Side Sex Position
> 
> We liked all of them until I was better.



These all work pretty well for me. But they do get routine, and don't do much for husband.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I pushed for him to use it last night, and he got upset. He doesn't have a reason he just says, "I just don't want to, and if you were a guy you would understand."
> 
> Understand what, that you don't care enough to swallow your pride?
> 
> Finally when we started making out he was like, "okay I guess I'll try it." Uh too late now bub.


I'm a guy, I don't understand. I have not ever used the blue pill but I am getting to an age where someday it might be needed.

The only issue I'd have with trying it would be that potential 4 hour erection If you want me to try it you'd better be prepared for more than once


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I pushed for him to use it last night, and he got upset. He doesn't have a reason he just says, *"I just don't want to, and if you were a guy you would understand."*
> 
> Understand what, that you don't care enough to swallow your pride?
> 
> Finally when we started making out he was like, "okay I guess I'll try it." Uh too late now bub.


Ummmm, no that's a cop out.

I've run into more than one or two macho biker guys that use V.
sometimes they kind of fudge by saying 'yeh, were having so much sex, can you tell me where I can score some more viagra?'

i've used cialis for occasional off and on issues. 

So, NO 'if you were a guy you'd understand' B.S.!


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> I'm a guy, I don't understand. I have not ever used the blue pill but I am getting to an age where someday it might be needed.
> 
> The only issue I'd have with trying it would be that potential 4 hour erection If you want me to try it you'd better be prepared for more than once


i have tried the big C, the big V and the big L.
they don't give you 4 hr. hard-on. only when you're stimulated.
then it pops right up like jack-in-the-box


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> I'm wondering how he could possibly lose a hard on with you naked on top of him. Your husband really has some serious problems.


I know. I even brought it up last night when I was trying to get him to use the viagra. And he denied that we had any trouble a couple nights before. :scratchhead:

I think he is so used to it, that he doesn't even realize it's not normal anymore. 

Typical sex is several times him loosing his erection, several times switching positions, and in between each one he has to use his hand to stimulate himself enough for penetration again. I have a feeling that isn't the norm.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Typical sex is several times him loosing his erection, several times switching positions, and in between each one he has to use his hand to stimulate himself enough for penetration again. I have a feeling that isn't the norm.


No, that is not the norm.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It's about as far from normal as you can get (in my humble opinion) - especially for someone his age Curious. Even if he's low drive, he should still be able to maintain an erection during the act - especially if it's been a week or more since you've had sex.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know. I even brought it up last night when I was trying to get him to use the viagra. And he denied that we had any trouble a couple nights before. :scratchhead:
> 
> I think he is so used to it, that he doesn't even realize it's not normal anymore.
> 
> Typical sex is several times him loosing his erection, several times switching positions, and in between each one he has to use his hand to stimulate himself enough for penetration again. I have a feeling that isn't the norm.


Not normal. I'm going to be 41 this year and I don't have any of these issues. And my T levels are not thru the roof either. As painful as this sounds, you may have to consider the possibility that he's not attracted to you. If you two were each others firsts and onlys, this may be the case.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Don't worry. The doctor checked him out and said he was normal. 

*heavy sarcasm*


----------



## larry.gray

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I pushed for him to use it last night, and he got upset. He doesn't have a reason he just says, "I just don't want to, and if you were a guy you would understand."
> 
> Understand what, that you don't care enough to swallow your pride?
> 
> *Finally when we started making out he was like, "okay I guess I'll try it." Uh too late now bub.*


Don't do that.

I made the same.mistake myself. Don't go all passive aggressive when he agrees with you. Go with it and have fun.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



larry.gray said:


> Don't do that.
> 
> I made the same.mistake myself. Don't go all passive aggressive when he agrees with you. Go with it and have fun.


What do you mean? It takes 30 minutes to kick in, so him offering to take it after the clothes were off was not going to do anything.

I offered for us to just do foreplay while we waited a little bit for it to start working, but he didn't go for that. 

It would have been a waste of a $30 pill for him to take it and then start PIV in 2 minutes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh we did have sex last night. Without the viagra. And it was good. So no I didn't turn him down because he wouldn't take it. I think maybe that is what you are thinking Larry Gray?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh we did have sex last night. Without the viagra. And it was good. So no I didn't turn him down because he wouldn't take it. I think maybe that is what you are thinking Larry Gray?


So he was into it, no loss of erection at all and you enjoyed it? Something doesn't add up.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I know. I even brought it up last night when I was trying to get him to use the viagra. And he denied that we had any trouble a couple nights before. :scratchhead:
> 
> I think he is so used to it, that he doesn't even realize it's not normal anymore.
> 
> Typical sex is several times him loosing his erection, several times switching positions, and in between each one he has to use his hand to stimulate himself enough for penetration again. I have a feeling that isn't the norm.


No, definitely not normal. My husband is LD as well, but never looses his erections, he just doesn't want it as much as I do.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> So he was into it, no loss of erection at all and you enjoyed it? Something doesn't add up.


He was into it. But we still struggled with ED. I don't mind that so much, as long as he is not pointing fingers and blaming it on me, or my technique, or what have you.


----------



## jorgegene

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

my wife jump starts my hardness by stroking me until i'm good and hard. she's a peach. once i get hard it stays that way for the duration, no problems.
have you tried this with him?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



jorgegene said:


> my wife jump starts my hardness by stroking me until i'm good and hard. she's a peach. once i get hard it stays that way for the duration, no problems.
> have you tried this with him?


My hands are on him nearly every second I can reach him. But sometimes even stroking isn't enough. Or if it does get him hard, it will fade after a few minutes.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So sorry Curious.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, is it Cough-Variant Asthma that ails you?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Curious, is it Cough-Variant Asthma that ails you?


No, Plastic Bronchitis. A rare type of lung disease. Very horrible sometimes.

Plastic Bronchitis | The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/4/e67.full.pdf

http://www.isu.edu/radsci/papers14/15_2014.pdf

Tact on heart defects, one blind eye, juvenile arthritis on my left side, carpal tunnel, pace maker, and I'm a real winner.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> No, Plastic Bronchitis. A rare type of lung disease. Very horrible sometimes.
> 
> Plastic Bronchitis | The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
> 
> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/4/e67.full.pdf
> 
> http://www.isu.edu/radsci/papers14/15_2014.pdf
> 
> Tact on heart defects, one blind eye, juvenile arthritis on my left side, carpal tunnel, pace maker, and I'm a real winner.



Have you been treated for it? 

I have a lymphatic malformation(birth defect) among some other issues, so I'm a medical disaster myself, too. There are different options for treatment though. I'm just curious what you've tried.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> Have you been treated for it?
> 
> I have a lymphatic malformation(birth defect) among some other issues, so I'm a medical disaster myself, too. There are different options for treatment though. I'm just curious what you've tried.


They've tried it all. Plastic bronchitis isn't treatable. 

After many years I got tired of being the guinea pig, so they sent me home with a wave and a good luck.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It started over a decade ago, so at that time it was nearly unheard of. I think I was 1 of 12 recorded in modern history...

I was older than most of the others, so I'm pretty sure they wanted to use me to practice results on and such. Once I became a legal adult I put an end to all that.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> It started over a decade ago, so at that time it was nearly unheard of. I think I was 1 of 12 recorded in modern history...
> 
> I was older than most of the others, so I'm pretty sure they wanted to use me to practice results on and such. Once I became a legal adult I put an end to all that.


There are new treatments now though. 

I know for my condition, my only choice back in the day was surgery. That was it and I had many surgeries. Now, people can do sclerotherapy, laser treatment, sildenafil(yes, Viagra), and so on. Treatments are a lot better now than what was possible before. I see a pediatric plastic surgeon, so I know all about being the oldest one being treated. It's fine with me though, as I completely trust my specialist and he does an amazing job with my surgeries. They just look at you as "interesting"(as with any rare case), but I don't blame them. I'd look at someone that way too, even at my own case. 

Your first link talked about embolization, which is a common place treatment these days. They use embolization for many different conditions and I could see it working well for yours. The MRI with contrast can easily pinpoint where the issues are, so they can be treated. I've had 4 MRIs with contrast and they're very simple and give a clear picture of the malformation/issue(works great for the lymphatic system and doesn't have radiation). You don't have to make a quick decision, but it would be good for you to at least get more information for yourself.


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> There are new treatments now though.
> 
> I know for my condition, my only choice back in the day was surgery. That was it and I had many surgeries. Now, people can do sclerotherapy, laser treatment, sildenafil(yes, Viagra), and so on. Treatments are a lot better now than what was possible before. I see a pediatric plastic surgeon, so I know all about being the oldest one being treated. It's fine with me though, as I completely trust my specialist and he does an amazing job with my surgeries. They just look at you as "interesting"(as with any rare case), but I don't blame them. I'd look at someone that way too, even at my own case.
> 
> Your first link talked about embolization, which is a common place treatment these days. They use embolization for many different conditions and I could see it working well for yours. The MRI with contrast can easily pinpoint where the issues are, so they can be treated. I've had 4 MRIs with contrast and they're very simple and give a clear picture of the malformation/issue(works great for the lymphatic system and doesn't have radiation). You don't have to make a quick decision, but it would be good for you to at least get more information for yourself.


^^ :iagree:

Thanks for the links TCW. You are a catch! A very rare one at that! (((HUGS))) 

I would take a look at what they're doing now. The technology is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was 10 years ago. 

I have many people in my family that have lung issues and the new medications are very effective. Not yours obviously, but I'd still check into it. You must be on some meds now, no?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

They did look into the newer treatments. It started over a decade ago, but I have been seen, and had surgeries, etc, since then.

As for me, they couldn't find a cause, or any reason for my issues. I can't remember the exact reasons why they didn't try the embolism, but they had a good reason. I do have the cardiac problems along with it, and I believe that played a role in me being untreatable. 

They did discover a leak with my heart/lung valves, or ducts, or something (can't remember at this point. lol), from a prior repair, which they thought may be the cause. So I had open heart surgery to fix it, and they assumed that would fix my issues but it didn't. 

As for medicines, I have an expensive breathing treatment which I use when I'm desperate, but it's not a cure all. It helps very little.

I've tried dozens of medications and breathing treatments, which all ultimately did not help enough to continue them. At one time I believe I was taking 9 different pills and inhalers a day. 


Overall I'm not doing too bad though. Some days are worse than others.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You can always get a second, third, etc. opinion. My long time specialist(diagnosed at 8 months old to 17 years old) said I didn't have any options left. I didn't like his answer, so I went to over a dozen consultations until I found a new doctor(my current specialist) who had different ideas on treating my case. I tried a new treatment and have a completely different life than what I had before living on pain medications. I have been seeing him for the last several years. It was a horrible pain in the butt to find a new specialist going for a second, third, etc. opinion(consultation after consultation), but I refused to live in pain. Just something that you can think about, if you want to look at other options. 

Not sure where you live, but there are different specialized centers you can try to contact for information:

Center for Airway Disorders (CAD) | Overview | Boston Children's Hospital

CHB often sees adults. I know many who go to the vascular anomalies clinic there as adults. 

Lymphatic Imaging and Intervention Program | The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

I'm sure Children's Hospital of Philadelphia would also see adults. 

You can contact either one or both for more information.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I read about a new treatment at that Philadelphia hospital. Check it out curious.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening TheCuriousWife
I wouldn't use it either - I have a issue with all non-required medication, BUT - I would be sure to find some other way to satisfy my wife.





TheCuriousWife said:


> I pushed for him to use it last night, and he got upset. He doesn't have a reason he just says, "I just don't want to, and if you were a guy you would understand."
> 
> Understand what, that you don't care enough to swallow your pride?
> 
> Finally when we started making out he was like, "okay I guess I'll try it." Uh too late now bub.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Fortunately I live close to one of the top 10 children's hospitals in the country. I had several specialists, and they also consulted with other hospitals. They have been very good to me. It is a little funny that a grown woman still goes to the children's hospital.  

Philadelphia is very very far away from me.

At this point, I have no interest in seeking out new doctors, or treatment. I'm finally to the point where I don't have to go to the doctor regularly, and I'm enjoying it. I'd rather enjoy life, than continue to spend it in the hospital. I finally got free!

I have serve anxiety, and fear of doctors, so there is no way I'd go voluntarily.  I do go for my required regular checkups, and if I am sick.

My mom has a masters in the medical field, and my neighbor and friend is a doctor and keeps an eye on me as well. So I have a knowledgeable support group, who will make me go to the hospital if I need it.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That's understandable. You need to do whatever it is that makes your life the most worth living and that will vary from person to person.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Speaking of health issues, I now have an infected spider bite.  Yippee. 

So on antibiotics, and have to use a condom for 2 weeks. I so love that... 

The last couple weeks just keeps getting better and better. My cat died, I was horribly sick, my dog was diagnosed with an expensive medical problem, and now a spider bite. 

Ugh. I wish I could just sleep for a week.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> My mom has a masters in the medical field, and my neighbor and friend is a doctor and keeps an eye on me as well. So I have a knowledgeable support group, who will make me go to the hospital if I need it.


Not that she could help matters, but have you ever talked to your mom about your marital sex issues?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> I'm not understanding the connection^^^ (not that it's all that important that I understand it )
> 
> Sorry about the rough times you are having right now. "When it rains, it pours" . . huh?


Some antibiotics interact with hormonal birth control. Which means you have to use a backup method during the medicines and 7 days after.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> Not that she could help matters, but have you ever talked to your mom about your marital sex issues?


No I haven't. My parents have a pretty crummy marriage, and I definitely would not go to them for advice. They are pretty much a role model for "I don't want to be like that."


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Try food grade hydrogen peroxide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ConanHub said:


> Try food grade hydrogen peroxide.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


?


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That and when I use it, my energy level goes back to teen years and my unit springs to life like when I was going through puberty.

Granted, I am hd but the stuff is pretty awesome if used occasionally for overall health.

Would probably be great for infected spider bites but I remember several years ago drinking diluted food grade and almost immediately suffering from "big Wang" syndrome! LOL!

I started using some yesterday and lost count of how many erections I've had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

intheory said:


> I've heard you shouldn't *drink* H²O². But maybe that's the drug store kind? What's the difference of food grade and mouthwash grade?


Food grade can be safely consumed. The run of the mill kind has additives that are harmful if ingested.

Natural food stores often carry the product or it can be purchased online.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



ConanHub said:


> That and when I use it, my energy level goes back to teen years and my unit springs to life like when I was going through puberty.
> 
> Granted, I am hd but the stuff is pretty awesome if used occasionally for overall health.
> 
> Would probably be great for infected spider bites but I remember several years ago drinking diluted food grade and almost immediately suffering from "big Wang" syndrome! LOL!
> 
> I started using some yesterday and lost count of how many erections I've had.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmm. Very interesting. Going to have to check into that.

Isn't it funny how HD people look for ways to make sex better or different even when it's great already?

I tried some Horny Goat Weed and Arginine. I wasn't sure if I could tell a difference or not, but the last time I did I took it about 4 hours before we had sex. After my wife said "I think your d1ck got harder than normal tonight. I can usually control how deep you go with positioning, but nothing worked tonight. Even when I'd clamp down on it, you'd just plow right through it." I don't know if it was it the HGW or Arg or where she was in her cycle or what. I believe further study is warranted.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Hmm. Very interesting. Going to have to check into that.
> 
> Isn't it funny how HD people look for ways to make sex better or different even when it's great already?
> 
> I tried some Horny Goat Weed and Arginine. I wasn't sure if I could tell a difference or not, but the last time I did I took it about 4 hours before we had sex. After my wife said "I think your d1ck got harder than normal tonight. I can usually control how deep you go with positioning, but nothing worked tonight. Even when I'd clamp down on it, you'd just plow right through it." I don't know if it was it the HGW or Arg or where she was in her cycle or what. I believe further study is warranted.


Because you stimulated this:


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Placebo affect? Probably. Previously when I took them, I couldn't tell for sure if they did anything or not, so they probably didn't. And there are so many other factors that could have been responsible. What she was wearing, the fact that we'd had a great day together, we had edged the living hell out of each other the night before (most likely culprit, that I didn't think of until just now LOL)


----------



## ConanHub

I Don't Know said:


> Hmm. Very interesting. Going to have to check into that.
> 
> Isn't it funny how HD people look for ways to make sex better or different even when it's great already?


It was a very "big" surprise actually. I wasn't looking for a sexual aid but the side affects were fun! &#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Some antibiotics interact with hormonal birth control. Which means you have to use a backup method during the medicines and 7 days after.


Not the most fun, but it's good to be so careful about not getting pregnant. Hopefully things start getting better again soon. 

I wouldn't consume any amount of hydrogen peroxide, no matter what the concentration is. It's a corrosive substance that can really do a number on your body. That would not be a risk I would be willing to take. There are some other 'supplements' you can look into though, if you really wanted to.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I won't be drinking any H2O2. lol. Sounds like drinking poison.

Counseling was rough. We talked about my need to be clean, and my aversion to oral sex. She kept prodding me why, why, why am I self conscious about it?

She said most guys love oral, most guys love the taste and the smell. But I don't believe my husband does.

She asked him, and he said he doesn't mind. But I have a hard time believing that. I mentioned the fact that in the past he got many blowjobs, and yet I went months without oral. So that tends to give you the impression that he doesn't like it. Unfortunately we ran out of time, so we didn't really get too far into this. 

She also wanted to know why I didn't like quickies. I explained that I don't mind quickies, as long as that isn't all the sex I'm going to be getting for a long while. Which she understood. So she mentioned about having a quickie on one of the "off" days in between normal sex. Which I'd love. What she doesn't realize is that my husband has absolutely no desire to have more sex, quickie or not. 

I don't think she quite grasps just how much he doesn't care about sex yet. She is still surprised when he talks about turning me down, or swatting me away. He also admitted that he does realize that I don't initiate anymore and that it is better because I'm not pestering him. So we get along better. 

For our homework she is wanting husband to offer and perform no strings attached oral on me once, and I'm also suppose to ask for it once. Ugh. Husband even mentioned that he may reject me when I ask, and he doesn't want it to make me upset. He also said that oral doesn't work on me.  She told him to try anyway. Not exactly a boost of confidence. 

He was all, "yeah I'd be willing to try." But I made sure to mention that I have NEVER had an orgasm and he didn't. He's NEVER even tried to achieve that. I did fail to mention that I've never had an oral orgasm.

I tried to come out of my box, and I didn't shower before sex last night. But he also didn't do any oral on me. So again, that just reaffirms my point that he thinks I'm dirty. Despite what he told the counselor. 

He didn't say anything negative, but actions are louder than words. And if nothing is said, I tend to expect the worst. I'll own that, that is my fault. 

We are continuing to dig deeper with the counselor. She still doesn't have the full story, but we are getting there.


----------



## ConanHub

Anonymous07 said:


> Not the most fun, but it's good to be so careful about not getting pregnant. Hopefully things start getting better again soon.
> 
> I wouldn't consume any amount of hydrogen peroxide, no matter what the concentration is. It's a corrosive substance that can really do a number on your body. That would not be a risk I would be willing to take. There are some other 'supplements' you can look into though, if you really wanted to.


The level I consume is less corrosive than most alcoholic beverages and far less corrosive than a lemon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, so what if you want to be clean? I would never let my H go down on me if I wasn't shower fresh.

I get that he said mean things about your kitty before and so you are reticent about doing it at all.

But why are you trying to make yourself not take a shower first?

If my H is going to touch me with his hands or his mouth, I have washed my bits within 10 minutes before this occurs. Every. Single. Time. 

And because I know I am squeaky clean, I can relax and not worry about that at all.

And yes, he loves my scent and taste...after we've been going for a bit, the pheromones start flying and juices start flowing and he gets a wonderful taste and aromatherapy from Nature Herself. 

And don't ever just wipe off the surface with a wash cloth, that actually makes it taste bad. It has to be mild soap and hot water and then a full rinse. But then, YUM!! 

Same goes for him, shower fresh, every time, without fail. YUM!!


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,
You are making progress. You know what's true, and are accepting what's true and that's a huge positive step. 

How would you feel if your H followed the path of radical honesty and actually said all the stuff you already know is true? 

That's not a trick question. 

I prefer radical honesty - awkward as it can be. 

You can facilitate that by seeding the response with: It seems kind of obvious that .....

It won't be painless, it will however be a lot better than conversations where what is said is out of synch with what is actually happening in the day to day. 

Deceit is the opposite of intimacy...




TheCuriousWife said:


> I won't be drinking any H2O2. lol. Sounds like drinking poison.
> 
> Counseling was rough. We talked about my need to be clean, and my aversion to oral sex. She kept prodding me why, why, why am I self conscious about it?
> 
> She said most guys love oral, most guys love the taste and the smell. But I don't believe my husband does.
> 
> She asked him, and he said he doesn't mind. But I have a hard time believing that. I mentioned the fact that in the past he got many blowjobs, and yet I went months without oral. So that tends to give you the impression that he doesn't like it. Unfortunately we ran out of time, so we didn't really get too far into this.
> 
> She also wanted to know why I didn't like quickies. I explained that I don't mind quickies, as long as that isn't all the sex I'm going to be getting for a long while. Which she understood. So she mentioned about having a quickie on one of the "off" days in between normal sex. Which I'd love. What she doesn't realize is that my husband has absolutely no desire to have more sex, quickie or not.
> 
> I don't think she quite grasps just how much he doesn't care about sex yet. She is still surprised when he talks about turning me down, or swatting me away. He also admitted that he does realize that I don't initiate anymore and that it is better because I'm not pestering him. So we get along better.
> 
> For our homework she is wanting husband to offer and perform no strings attached oral on me once, and I'm also suppose to ask for it once. Ugh. Husband even mentioned that he may reject me when I ask, and he doesn't want it to make me upset. He also said that oral doesn't work on me.  She told him to try anyway. Not exactly a boost of confidence.
> 
> He was all, "yeah I'd be willing to try." But I made sure to mention that I have NEVER had an orgasm and he didn't. He's NEVER even tried to achieve that. I did fail to mention that I've never had an oral orgasm.
> 
> I tried to come out of my box, and I didn't shower before sex last night. But he also didn't do any oral on me. So again, that just reaffirms my point that he thinks I'm dirty. Despite what he told the counselor.
> 
> He didn't say anything negative, but actions are louder than words. And if nothing is said, I tend to expect the worst. I'll own that, that is my fault.
> 
> We are continuing to dig deeper with the counselor. She still doesn't have the full story, but we are getting there.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Intheory,
I agree with you. 

The counselor doesn't have context. And CW2 deflected by saying he 'didn't mind' giving oral sex. That's simply untrue. 

CW - I'll give you a point of contrast. I'd say that M2 hasn't exhibited ANY sexual response to me in the last month. None. Zero. 

We've had very one sided sex a bunch of times - at her insistence. But she doesn't pretend. And yes sometimes that is uncomfortable for me. But way less so than having her look me in the eye, panting and moaning when she's not turned on at all.....

-------
Dealing with this type topic is best done with a soft tone - because it's a hard message to hear - perhaps CW says: 

I want to provide the therapist a bit more information on this topic so she understands why I believe you dislike doing this. 

You avoid offering, often reject my requests and even when you do it, you keep it very brief. Like a couple minutes. 

This feels even worse because I've been very giving in this area. 

If he is allowed to pretend he 'doesn't mind' in counseling, that will prevent progress. 

Instead there ought to be a sincere discussion of how he really feels about this stuff - painful as that may be. And then you go from a solid foundation of truth. 





intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> I believe it is worth the money and time for you and H to attend counseling.
> 
> But get your money's worth out of this.
> 
> I know it's uncomfortable and awkward; but make sure the counselor knows all the pertinent facts.
> 
> Otherwise, she's giving you a bunch of tips and homework that maybe shouldn't be expected of a couple at your current level of intimacy.
> 
> Like, she says, "MrCurious, you perform oral to completion on CuriousWife".. But she still doesn't realize that he swats you away, or won't initiate. Or any of the other details that you mention.
> 
> She has to know what's going on, for her advice to be appropriate and useful for you guys.
> 
> Some of these things that you say she doesn't know about? Write them down so that you don't forget them. Then make sure that you get feedback from her next time around.
> 
> I hope this makes sense.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> CW, so what if you want to be clean? I would never let my H go down on me if I wasn't shower fresh.
> 
> I get that he said mean things about your kitty before and so you are reticent about doing it at all.
> 
> But why are you trying to make yourself not take a shower first?
> 
> If my H is going to touch me with his hands or his mouth, I have washed my bits within 10 minutes before this occurs. Every. Single. Time.
> 
> And because I know I am squeaky clean, I can relax and not worry about that at all.
> 
> And yes, he loves my scent and taste...after we've been going for a bit, the pheromones start flying and juices start flowing and he gets a wonderful taste and aromatherapy from Nature Herself.
> 
> And don't ever just wipe off the surface with a wash cloth, that actually makes it taste bad. It has to be mild soap and hot water and then a full rinse. But then, YUM!!
> 
> Same goes for him, shower fresh, every time, without fail. YUM!!


Well I agree. I don't see what the big deal is about cleaning up for a few minutes first. Then I don't have to worry as much, and I feel sexier and more relaxed.

The only reason I try not to shower occasionally is because he complains about it a lot. He says it kills the moment, and takes away from it being spontaneous. He gets bored and out of the mood, waiting around for me.

Personally it gets me more in the mood.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He says he doesn't mind oral sex. So I'm going to hold him to that.

I "demanded" he perform on me last night, and he did for quite a while. It felt really good. Now we just need to work on slowing him down a bit. 

Intheory, the counselor does know he swats me away, and that he turns me down, etc. We have been up front with her. But I think she still doesn't quite understand it. I think he is the first LD man she has seen.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> She said most guys love oral, most guys love the taste and the smell. But I don't believe my husband does.
> 
> She asked him, and he said he doesn't mind.
> 
> ...
> 
> I've never had an orgasm from oral.


He might be emphasizing outcome. A lot of guys will be lukewarm about oral if it doesn't get her off. It's a success/failure thing I think. Get her off and you're successful, skilled and thus enjoy it. If she doesn't get off he might think he failed or isn't any good at it, so why do it?


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I agree. I don't see what the big deal is about cleaning up for a few minutes first. Then I don't have to worry as much, and I feel sexier and more relaxed.
> 
> The only reason I try not to shower occasionally is because he complains about it a lot. He says it kills the moment, and takes away from it being spontaneous. He gets bored and out of the mood, waiting around for me.
> 
> Personally it gets me more in the mood.


Next time, tell him you need a shower buddy. :lol:

Seriously, showering together gets me in the mood, so you might see if you can get him to join you in the shower.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Next time, tell him you need a shower buddy. :lol:
> 
> Seriously, showering together gets me in the mood, so you might see if you can get him to join you in the shower.


I've tried to get him to join me, very rarely he does. 


Showering together does nothing for him.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> He might be emphasizing outcome. A lot of guys will be lukewarm about oral if it doesn't get her off. It's a success/failure thing I think. Get her off and you're successful, skilled and thus enjoy it. If she doesn't get off he might think he failed or isn't any good at it, so why do it?


Could be. But it's not my fault he is bad at it. He is bad at it because he doesn't practice, and doesn't listen to my suggestions. 

He did offer no strings attached oral to me. It was going well, but then our friend arrived early, and we had to jump up and put clothes on.  Anyway, I think it boosted his confidence a little.


----------



## Eastcoasting

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Showering together does nothing for him.


:scratchhead:

Never heard that one before. So you mean to tell me that when you do shower together he does not get hard? Even if you "tickle" him down there with your pubic hair....nothing?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Eastcoasting said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> Never heard that one before. So you mean to tell me that when you do shower together he does not get hard? Even if you "tickle" him down there with your pubic hair....nothing?


You really should go back and read the entire thread to understand more of what Curious is dealing with.


----------



## Eastcoasting

karole said:


> You really should go back and read the entire thread to understand more of what Curious is dealing with.


I'm sure I can make better use of my time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Eastcoasting said:


> I'm sure I can make better use of my time


Oh joy, more wisdom offered from someone who can't be bothered to hear what the problem is but wants to offer advice.:banghead:


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The only reason I try not to shower occasionally is because he complains about it a lot. He says it kills the moment, and takes away from it being spontaneous. He gets bored and out of the mood, waiting around for me.


[Sigh...] This is just more of his ongoing nonsense. Always coming up with an excuse not to have sex -- and a way to _shift the blame to you for it._ He complains showering ruins the mood, but the entire reason you shower is that he very indelicately complained in the past that you smell and taste bad. So _of course_ you're going to feel it imperative to shower. And now he's going to complain about _that?!_ 

If you don't maintain your practice of showering first you are setting yourself up for complete rejection. Because if you skip the shower and he proceeds to try oral, you're giving him a "valid" reason to dislike it - and he will cling to that going forward. Then you'll have dug this hole even deeper. 

You can not please him, regardless of what you do - he always finds something to b!tch about, and I suspect he always will. He truly sounds miserable. I have to ask, is there _any_ _joy_ in this relationship? I mean beyond what you would have if you were merely in a close friendship with him? I'm talking about that special joy that happens between a man and a woman, that feels different than anything you experience with anyone else. That feeling of _ magic_ you share with someone of the opposite sex that makes you know that what you have is _way different_ than just good friendship. Is that type of joy present in this relationship and marriage?

Sex within a marital relationship should be one source of such joy -in a healthy marriage sex is a bonding mechanism for a couple and typically brings them closer together. When sex is a source of constant conflict, frustration and pain something is very wrong with the relationship dynamic. And _at this early stage in the marriage_, that feeling of joy and the mutual need for bonding from sex should be happening very naturally. Yet from what you've said on several occasions, in your marriage, it never has - not even on your honeymoon. I really don't think this is something you can force or negotiate. Its there or it isn't. 

I think the counseling is the right thing to do, and you should probably continue as long as you remain in this marriage -or until the problems are resolved, but as an objective outside observer I am doubtful of that happening. I think this sort of counseling can be beneficial for a couple who at least began with a decent-to-good sex life, and have subsequently had problems but are trying to recapture what they had and grow from there. I don't think counseling can put chemistry into a relationship where it has never naturally existed. Or make someone burn with desire for someone they've never really shown any significant passion or desire for. The bottom line is there has to be natural sexual attraction and chemistry between two people, and on the part of both people, for a genuinely fulfilling sexual relationship to exist. A counselor, no matter how skilled, can not create mutual chemistry, desire and attraction between people where it has never naturally existed on a mutual basis. 

But back to practical matters. Knowing his modus operandi and his manipulative nature, don't walk into a trap where the showers are concerned. He's setting you up for a situation where you just can't win. Take the shower and _you caused him to get "bored"_ and lose interest (I've noticed throughout the course of this thread that "bored" is a word he uses far too liberally in regards to your sex life). Skip the shower and you smell and taste bad. Wanting to be clean before sex is not in any way unreasonable. I, too, like to be clean prior to sex, as many people do. For me this typically means having had a bath or shower within the last few hours prior to sex, unless I'm particularly sweaty, in which case I prefer right before - but everyone has their own guidelines. When my husband really objects to me excusing myself to quickly clean up, he knows how to stop me with unbridled passion, as I will also do when he suggests he'll take a fast shower and I don't want him to stop. If your husband really doesn't want you to break the mood to go shower, he could _persuade you through sheer passion. _ (The question then becomes, is it that your husband doesn't want to break the mood, or is that he doesn't want to "be kept waiting". There is a difference. One implies that there is some serious excitement and passion involved. The other implies that that he just wants to get it over with so he can get on with doing something he is actually interested in).

My husband has never complained about my taste under any circumstances, quite to the contrary. But I nonetheless like to try to ensure I am freshly clean before I let him do oral, because I just think it shows the proper consideration for your partner and I find it hard to fully relax when worried that I might not be fresh. And I appreciate that he ensures he is freshly clean before oral for me as well. We both wait for each other in anticipation if one of us needs to slip away for a quick shower. If your husband "bores" so easily in the few short minutes it takes for you to grab a fast shower, its reasonable to assume he really wasn't into it to begin with. You can almost always get the mood back under these circumstances, as long as the parties involved want it and are excited to begin with. 

Trouble is, its always_ something_ with him. And its always going to be that way by all appearances.

To be very honest, I would not be able to remain attracted to, or feel desire for, someone who is so generally unenthusiastic and dis-interested in having sex with me. A lot of your husband's conduct is quite frankly _insulting._ That would affect my self-respect as a woman. I know I am attractive to men and that there are plenty of men who would value, appreciate and desire me. I am sure the same is true of you. If the man I was with was so disinterested in having sex with me and generally insulting to me about my desirability, it would be a complete turn off. Human beings are naturally attracted to people who make us feel better about ourselves - that is part of the underlying psychology of attraction. So, being made to feel un-desired in the many ways your husband has, as documented throughout this thread, would completely kill my interest in a sexual relationship with that person. 

Good sex is very much about the desire and chemistry two people both mutually feel for one another. That;s what makes it both exciting and _fulfilling_. If that's not present - or worse yet, if the person I'm with is naturally inclined to make me feel _un-desirable_ as opposed to desirable - I'd want no part of it. I can take care of basic physiological needs for myself, and to me that is by far preferable to seeking sex from someone who clearly doesn't desire me. I'm not talking about situations where one partner is low drive and therefore doesn't want sex as much, but is nonetheless respectful and complimentary, and when there is sex, its typically good - a bonding experience. I'm talking about a situation where a spouse has a pattern of saying things and behaving in a way which is insulting, insensitive, and cold (occasionally even cruel) in regard to sex and desirability, as is the case here. That is very unhealthy and potentially quite damaging to the individual over time. I see that as a clear indicator that two people are not right for each other in the context of anything more than friendship - at best. Frankly, I wouldn't consider someone who could be so insulting, insensitive, cold and manipulative much of a friend either. 

It's important to establish and maintain a set of standards for yourself and for what you expect out of life. Decide your worth. Or someone else will determine it for you.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

^ ^ ^ :iagree:

Excellent post, justfab. I agree with everything you said, especially this part:



justfabulous said:


> I think this sort of counseling can be beneficial for a couple who at least began with a decent-to-good sex life, and have subsequently had problems but are trying to recapture what they had and grow from there. *I don't think counseling can put chemistry into a relationship where it has never naturally existed.* Or make someone burn with desire for someone they've never really shown any significant passion or desire for. The bottom line is there has to be natural sexual attraction and chemistry between two people, and on the part of both people, for a genuinely fulfilling sexual relationship to exist. *A counselor, no matter how skilled, can not create mutual chemistry, desire and attraction between people where it has never naturally existed on a mutual basis.*


----------



## Eastcoasting

the2ofus said:


> Oh joy, more wisdom offered from someone who can't be bothered to hear what the problem is but wants to offer advice.:banghead:


I wasn't offering wisdom nor advice...I was just asking a question. I do not have to read 264 pages to ask a question. So you go ahead and bang your head all you want. Bang away. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

My interpretation of the shower complaint was similar. 

If he can prevent CW from taking a shower and 'ruining the spontaneity' he gets himself totally off the hook for giving her oral sex due to all his prior complaints about smell/taste. 

If howeve she does shower he's off the hook for 'not being turned on' because she killed the moment. 

He has constructed what is called a 'double bind'. It's a lose-lose proposition. 

What he's doing is totally normal for folks who feel backed into a corner. 




justfabulous said:


> [Sigh...] This is just more of his ongoing nonsense. Always coming up with an excuse not to have sex -- and a way to _shift the blame to you for it._ He complains showering ruins the mood, but the entire reason you shower is that he very indelicately complained in the past that you smell and taste bad. So _of course_ you're going to feel it imperative to shower. And now he's going to complain about _that?!_
> 
> If you don't maintain your practice of showering first you are setting yourself up for complete rejection. Because if you skip the shower and he proceeds to try oral, you're giving him a "valid" reason to dislike it - and he will cling to that going forward. Then you'll have dug this hole even deeper.
> 
> You can not please him, regardless of what you do - he always finds something to b!tch about, and I suspect he always will. He truly sounds miserable. I have to ask, is there _any_ _joy_ in this relationship? I mean beyond what you would have if you were merely in a close friendship with him? I'm talking about that special joy that happens between a man and a woman, that feels different than anything you experience with anyone else. That feeling of _ magic_ you share with someone of the opposite sex that makes you know that what you have is _way different_ than just good friendship. Is that type of joy present in this relationship and marriage?
> 
> Sex within a marital relationship should be one source of such joy -in a healthy marriage sex is a bonding mechanism for a couple and typically brings them closer together. When sex is a source of constant conflict, frustration and pain something is very wrong with the relationship dynamic. And _at this early stage in the marriage_, that feeling of joy and the mutual need for bonding from sex should be happening very naturally. Yet from what you've said on several occasions, in your marriage, it never has - not even on your honeymoon. I really don't think this is something you can force or negotiate. Its there or it isn't.
> 
> I think the counseling is the right thing to do, and you should probably continue as long as you remain in this marriage -or until the problems are resolved, but as an objective outside observer I am doubtful of that happening. I think this sort of counseling can be beneficial for a couple who at least began with a decent-to-good sex life, and have subsequently had problems but are trying to recapture what they had and grow from there. I don't think counseling can put chemistry into a relationship where it has never naturally existed. Or make someone burn with desire for someone they've never really shown any significant passion or desire for. The bottom line is there has to be natural sexual attraction and chemistry between two people, and on the part of both people, for a genuinely fulfilling sexual relationship to exist. A counselor, no matter how skilled, can not create mutual chemistry, desire and attraction between people where it has never naturally existed on a mutual basis.
> 
> But back to practical matters. Knowing his modus operandi and his manipulative nature, don't walk into a trap where the showers are concerned. He's setting you up for a situation where you just can't win. Take the shower and _you caused him to get "bored"_ and lose interest (I've noticed throughout the course of this thread that "bored" is a word he uses far too liberally in regards to your sex life). Skip the shower and you smell and taste bad. Wanting to be clean before sex is not in any way unreasonable. I, too, like to be clean prior to sex, as many people do. For me this typically means having had a bath or shower within the last few hours prior to sex, unless I'm particularly sweaty, in which case I prefer right before - but everyone has their own guidelines. When my husband really objects to me excusing myself to quickly clean up, he knows how to stop me with unbridled passion, as I will also do when he suggests he'll take a fast shower and I don't want him to stop. If your husband really doesn't want you to break the mood to go shower, he could _persuade you through sheer passion. _ (The question then becomes, is it that your husband doesn't want to break the mood, or is that he doesn't want to "be kept waiting". There is a difference. One implies that there is some serious excitement and passion involved. The other implies that that he just wants to get it over with so he can get on with doing something he is actually interested in).
> 
> My husband has never complained about my taste under any circumstances, quite to the contrary. But I nonetheless like to try to ensure I am freshly clean before I let him do oral, because I just think it shows the proper consideration for your partner and I find it hard to fully relax when worried that I might not be fresh. And I appreciate that he ensures he is freshly clean before oral for me as well. We both wait for each other in anticipation if one of us needs to slip away for a quick shower. If your husband "bores" so easily in the few short minutes it takes for you to grab a fast shower, its reasonable to assume he really wasn't into it to begin with. You can almost always get the mood back under these circumstances, as long as the parties involved want it and are excited to begin with.
> 
> Trouble is, its always_ something_ with him. And its always going to be that way by all appearances.
> 
> To be very honest, I would not be able to remain attracted to, or feel desire for, someone who is so generally unenthusiastic and dis-interested in having sex with me. A lot of your husband's conduct is quite frankly _insulting._ That would affect my self-respect as a woman. I know I am attractive to men and that there are plenty of men who would value, appreciate and desire me. I am sure the same is true of you. If the man I was with was so disinterested in having sex with me and generally insulting to me about my desirability, it would be a complete turn off. Human beings are naturally attracted to people who make us feel better about ourselves - that is part of the underlying psychology of attraction. So, being made to feel un-desired in the many ways your husband has, as documented throughout this thread, would completely kill my interest in a sexual relationship with that person.
> 
> Good sex is very much about the desire and chemistry two people both mutually feel for one another. That;s what makes it both exciting and _fulfilling_. If that's not present - or worse yet, if the person I'm with is naturally inclined to make me feel _un-desirable_ as opposed to desirable - I'd want no part of it. I can take care of basic physiological needs for myself, and to me that is by far preferable to seeking sex from someone who clearly doesn't desire me. I'm not talking about situations where one partner is low drive and therefore doesn't want sex as much, but is nonetheless respectful and complimentary, and when there is sex, its typically good - a bonding experience. I'm talking about a situation where a spouse has a pattern of saying things and behaving in a way which is insulting, insensitive, and cold (occasionally even cruel) in regard to sex and desirability, as is the case here. That is very unhealthy and potentially quite damaging to the individual over time. I see that as a clear indicator that two people are not right for each other in the context of anything more than friendship - at best. Frankly, I wouldn't consider someone who could be so insulting, insensitive, cold and manipulative much of a friend either.
> 
> It's important to establish and maintain a set of standards for yourself and for what you expect out of life. Decide your worth. Or someone else will determine it for you.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening all
I remember the comment from a LD person in one of these discussions. something to the effect of : the HD runs round and round the maze trying to find the sex, but there is no sex there.

Some LD people just don't want sex. They don't, and while they may not admit it even to themselves, there is nothing you or anyone can do to change that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> You can not please him, regardless of what you do - he always finds something to b!tch about, and I suspect he always will. He truly sounds miserable. I have to ask, is there _any_ _joy_ in this relationship? I mean beyond what you would have if you were merely in a close friendship with him? I'm talking about that special joy that happens between a man and a woman, that feels different than anything you experience with anyone else. That feeling of _ magic_ you share with someone of the opposite sex that makes you know that what you have is _way different_ than just good friendship. Is that type of joy present in this relationship and marriage?


Hey guys. I've just had no motivation what so ever to post or reply. You wrote a wonderful post just fabulous, but as I sit here with a headache I just have no energy to respond to all of it. So I thought I'd answer the thing that stuck out the most to me.

We do have joy in our relationship. I harp on the bad things, but honestly we have a pretty good relationship outside of sexual things. We enjoy spending time together, we laugh, I do think we have that "special bond." 

Sometimes I just look at him and think, "Gosh, I love that man."

So yes. There is that joy between us.

As I've stated recently before. Sex has slid down on the list of priorities. I don't hassle him anymore, and we are getting along much better. Most of our sexual talks are now just joking banter. We haven't had sex in at least a week. But surprisingly I'm okay. 

We fooled around a bit yesterday, and he asked for a blow job. I turned him down, but didn't get upset or offended like I used to. He is welcome to ask, but I'm also welcome to say no. I feel less obliged, maybe because I stand up for myself now. Also I don't let his moods or rejection bother me as much. I'm not dependent on his sexuality anymore. I don't feel nearly as horny and desperate. Maybe I've just lowered my expectations? 

If he doesn't want to have sex, whatever, his loss. 

It's working for us at this time. 

With help from counseling, he is slowly getting better about affection outside of the bedroom.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> My interpretation of the shower complaint was similar.
> 
> If he can prevent CW from taking a shower and 'ruining the spontaneity' he gets himself totally off the hook for giving her oral sex due to all his prior complaints about smell/taste.
> 
> If howeve she does shower he's off the hook for 'not being turned on' because she killed the moment.
> 
> He has constructed what is called a 'double bind'. It's a lose-lose proposition.
> 
> What he's doing is totally normal for folks who feel backed into a corner.


I agree.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> How many months of counseling do you think it will take for you to know what to do?
> 
> Like, you guys go to your counseling. Then you try the advice the counselor gives you, etc. Then you go back next week. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
> 
> So, just as an example, if you have both been attending for 6 months; yet your sex life is the same; what do you think you would do?
> 
> Or, another example, you go to counseling for 6 months, and your sex life improves 40%. Would that be enough for you to be okay with lifelong, faithful marriage to Mr.Curious?
> 
> I know it's early days yet with the counselor. I was just suggesting this as a way to stay on target and really think about what you want out of this, what you are willing to accept in the end, how long you are willing to wait and/or attend counseling.
> 
> Did the counselor address this issue? Did she discuss what counseling can and cannot do for you guys? What are realistic expectations, and so forth.


I have no idea how long the counseling will take.

Also, I don't really expect sex to get better. I'm more expecting our attitudes, and communication to get better. I'm not looking for more sex, just more affection and desire. If better sex is an effect of that, great! If not, I think I will still be okay.

Right now, I'm not 100% happy with our sex life. But I am feeling much better, because we can communicate that in a constructive way, and I think we understand each other better. I feel stable in our relationship right now. I don't stay up at night feeling hurt, or think about sex all day anymore.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> I hope you get to feeling better. I hope you are not getting sick or the flu or something.:|
> 
> When he asks for oral, since you are not offended or hurt anymore by this request; is there anyway you could give him oral and maybe reach down and touch yourself at the same time?
> 
> I'm assuming that it is a sexy feeling for you to go down on him. That you like it, and you just didn't like not getting an orgasm from him in return.
> 
> I'm only suggesting this as a way for you to feel good, while giving him what he wants. And you are taking charge of getting an orgasm. But, you are still there with him, not alone, and it is a very sexy activity.
> 
> I hope this wasn't offensive. I was just trying to be creative with the possibilities.
> 
> I am glad you still look over at him sometimes and think "I love this man". I know those feelings. Sometimes it's very surprising to still get them when it seems like there is so much crappola going on.
> 
> So, I'm glad to hear that you still get those sharp pangs of affection.:smile2:


Nah. I'm not sick. Just day one of the birth control cycle always makes me nauseous and gives me a headache. Soda helps, but I'm trying to be healthier. lol.

Not offended. The counselor has suggested me masturbating myself with him. But as I've started before I'm just not that confident and relaxed yet. Also that does not sound like fun at all to me. 

Besides the fact that it just sounds like another one sided sexual activity. I have to get him off, and me too... Pass.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Nah. I'm not sick. Just day one of the birth control cycle always makes me nauseous and gives me a headache. Soda helps, but I'm trying to be healthier. lol.
> 
> Not offended. The counselor has suggested me masturbating myself with him. But as I've started before I'm just not that confident and relaxed yet. Also that does not sound like fun at all to me.
> 
> Besides the fact that it just sounds like another one sided sexual activity. I have to get him off, and me too... Pass.


Totally wrong approach. The poster's suggestion is actually an excellent one for many reasons. 

1. You are sure to orgasm since you know what you're doing, and you'll get the job done quicker.
2. He also gets to cum.
3. He gets used to you having orgasms during sex, will probably start liking it and it will feel normal (right now you not orgasming is kind of the norm.)
4. It's sexy, for both you and him. For you, because you're getting yourself off which feels good. For him, because he knows that you giving him a bj is such a turn on that you can cum from it.

I could go on and on about why this is a good idea really..


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Could be. But it's not my fault he is bad at it. He is bad at it because he doesn't practice, and doesn't listen to my suggestions.
> 
> He did offer no strings attached oral to me. It was going well, but then our friend arrived early, and we had to jump up and put clothes on.  Anyway, I think it boosted his confidence a little.


Do you give him vocal affirmation by moaning or talking (Which you should even when he's doing sort of ****ty)? Or do you lay there quiet and only speak up when he does something wrong?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Totally wrong approach. The poster's suggestion is actually an excellent one for many reasons.
> 
> 1. You are sure to orgasm since you know what you're doing, and you'll get the job done quicker.
> 2. He also gets to cum.
> 3. He gets used to you having orgasms during sex, will probably start liking it and it will feel normal (right now you not orgasming is kind of the norm.)
> 4. It's sexy, for both you and him. For you, because you're getting yourself off which feels good. For him, because he knows that you giving him a bj is such a turn on that you can cum from it.
> 
> I could go on and on about why this is a good idea really..



LOL!

Or 

He could complain about how easy she gets herself off and stops putting any effort into getting her off and instead tells her to do it herself since he doesn't do it as well as she does. And she is now back to square one.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> LOL!
> 
> Or
> 
> He could complain about how easy she gets herself off and stops putting any effort into getting her off and instead tells her to do it herself since he doesn't do it as well as she does. And she is now back to square one.



Chuckle! Then you tell the therapist what the buffoon did and let her berate him:smile2:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Totally wrong approach. The poster's suggestion is actually an excellent one for many reasons.
> 
> 1. You are sure to orgasm since you know what you're doing, and you'll get the job done quicker.
> 2. He also gets to cum.
> 3. He gets used to you having orgasms during sex, will probably start liking it and it will feel normal (right now you not orgasming is kind of the norm.)
> 4. It's sexy, for both you and him. For you, because you're getting yourself off which feels good. For him, because he knows that you giving him a bj is such a turn on that you can cum from it.
> 
> I could go on and on about why this is a good idea really..


I DO orgasm most of the time me have sex.
And yeah it's a good idea... for him. Seems like another lazy way for him to have sex.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MeatTrain said:


> Do you give him vocal affirmation by moaning or talking (Which you should even when he's doing sort of ****ty)? Or do you lay there quiet and only speak up when he does something wrong?


I do give him vocal affirmation.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> Forgive me, I've lost track, when is your next appointment?
> 
> Are you looking forward to it; like you have things in mind you and H want to discuss?


Our appointment was last night. 

It went well. I brought up the fact that husband criticizes me when I'm on top, and makes me feel lousy and judged. 

This is what I always hear, "No, your not doing it right. I'm not feeling anything. Why can't you do it right?" etc. 

His crappy initiation approach was talked about. Again I reminded I want a statement, ie "I can't wait to ravage you when we get home." or "I'll meet you in the bedroom in 10 minutes." NOT a question, "Do you want to do it?" Yuck.

We also talked about how he doesn't give me sufficient time to warm up. Which makes my lady bits sore, and also the drawn out stimulation hurts after a while. 

I think he took it to heart because when we got home he told me to go get my butt in the shower. Then proceeded to give me oral, drag out the foreplay, convinced me to get on top (and encouraged me), and we had some awesome sex. 

From start to finish it was only 20 minutes. Which is funny, because it was great. Time has nothing to do with it. In fact I find the longer sessions less fun, because it usually just means we aren't very into it. Getting stimulated for an hour just makes everything go numb, and if an O hasn't happened by then, it's probably not going to happen. 

We did disagree at the counselor. He thinks our sex life is 85% good and 15% bad. I think it's 60%/40%. Maybe less.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We also talked about how he doesn't give me sufficient time to warm up. Which makes my lady bits sore, and also the drawn out stimulation hurts after a while.
> 
> From start to finish it was only 20 minutes. Which is funny, because it was great. Time has nothing to do with it. In fact I find the longer sessions less fun, because it usually just means we aren't very into it. Getting stimulated for an hour just makes everything go numb, and if an O hasn't happened by then, it's probably not going to happen.


Hmm, there is a lot in these two sentences he could learn from. Mainly to slow way the hell down, if he made whatever he does in say 5 minutes stretch out to 20 he'd be on the right track. Numb is not good :frown2:


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> Hmm, there is a lot in these two sentences he could learn from. Mainly to slow way the hell down, if he made whatever he does in say 5 minutes stretch out to 20 he'd be on the right track. Numb is not good :frown2:


I remind him over and over, but he just doesn't grasp it. 

The more time he spends on foreplay, the less time he has to spend manually stimulating me and/or doing PIV. 

Or even just starting with soft stimulation, instead of rubbing my clit like he is trying to start a fire, right from the get go. Ouch.

I will tell him to slow down, or be softer. So he will. For about one minute. Then it's right back to rough. For some reason he thinks the harder and the faster he goes, the faster I will get to orgasm, which isn't true at all. 

Several occasions I made him touch me softer, and I still had an O. And he was like, "Wow. I was barely touching you."

Yeah. That's what I've been trying to communicate for the last 3 years. lol.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"Rubs her clit like he's trying to start a fire..." OMG that's funny!

Curious, how do you feel about showing him how to slowly wake up and ready your lady parts by doing it to him the way you want it. Saying to him, "this is how I like to be warmed up to touch..." And then you slowly touch all around his man parts without actually touching him. My H LOVES it when I do that to him. The big tease...is she gonna touch my penis...now?..oh this time......?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> "Rubs her clit like he's trying to start a fire..." OMG that's funny!
> 
> Curious, how do you feel about showing him how to slowly wake up and ready your lady parts by doing it to him the way you want it. Saying to him, "this is how I like to be warmed up to touch..." And then you slowly touch all around his man parts without actually touching him. My H LOVES it when I do that to him. The big tease...is she gonna touch my penis...now?..oh this time......?




I do, do that to him. But vocalizing that as an example beforehand seems like a good idea. I'll try that next time. Thanks!


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I will tell him to slow down, or be softer. So he will. For about one minute. Then it's right back to rough. For some reason he thinks the harder and the faster he goes, the faster I will get to orgasm, which isn't true at all.



Welll, the reason is he's clueless that your parts don't work like his:grin2:

Tell him every time, 20 times a session if needed. "Like this, don't change unless I tell you to go faster or harder or whatever".


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> This sounds like a real breakthrough. I mean, you being on top going from where he can't feel anything [], to you guys having awesome sex with you on top.:smile2:


Well we didn't have awesome sex from me being on top. We switched positions after a few minutes, but at least he didn't criticize me while I was up there.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Well we didn't have awesome sex from me being on top. We switched positions after a few minutes, but at least he didn't criticize me while I was up there.


Try squatting over his groin (feet flat on the bed with your calves hugging his hips/waist) while you tighten your kagels and go straight up and down on him. For us older ladies with bad knees, it is quite the challenging position and can't be done for more than a minute or two. I wish we had an adjustable grab bar above the bed because it sure would make this technique easier to do! For my H, he loves this position. I think this technique is more pleasurable for men than simply sitting on his erection while you gyrate your pelvis in interesting ways. For me, it doesn't quite hit the right spot and as I've said, physically challenging.


----------



## Faithful Wife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Try squatting over his groin (feet flat on the bed with your calves hugging his hips/waist) while you tighten your kagels and go straight up and down on him. For us older ladies with bad knees, it is quite the challenging position and can't be done for more than a minute or two. I wish we had an adjustable grab bar above the bed because it sure would make this technique easier to do! For my H, he loves this position. I think this technique is more pleasurable for men than simply sitting on his erection while you gyrate your pelvis in interesting ways. For me, it doesn't quite hit the right spot and as I've said, physically challenging.


There's a special chair they make for this, looks like a little beach chair...the legs go on the outsides of his body and the seat holds you under your knees and thighs but leaves the pink parts accessible.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Faithful Wife said:


> There's a special chair they make for this, looks like a little beach chair...the legs go on the outsides of his body and the seat holds you under your knees and thighs but leaves the pink parts accessible.


Have you a link? Or a name I can google?


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> while you tighten your kagels and go straight up and down on him


FYI Curious, the tighten your kagels part can be important. The plain old woman on top and move around a bit thing tends to be less stimulating for the guy, you tend to open up a bit and be looser. 

No excuse to ***** about you not "doing it right" though! It is not unpleasurable, nothing wrong with you doing something that waorks really well for you for a while


----------



## Faithful Wife

Anon, I sent it to you separately..,can you link it here for me? Can't figure out how to do it from my phone.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I suppose anatomy, muscles etc. can vary .


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have I died and gone to heaven?

He initiated sex during the day via text. (Statement not a question! Woot!) Things came up, so we weren't able to have sex right when he got home as planned, but it didn't derail him, and we still had sex later in the evening. Usually it would have killed the mood and/or it would have been used as an excuse not to do it that night.

Very good sex again, and I tried on top again, which was a little more successful this time.

Today he flirted a bit and brought back up the good time last night.  He never talks about sex. I feel like that is big progress.

In other news I've been super horny, and he did kind of jokingly reject me when I tested the waters a little in between the sex days. Of course I was breaking the cardinal rule of initiating when we had sex the day before, so I didn't expect differently. Hoping I would get lucky since he has been more receptive.  But no such luck. Darn. 

I guess I shouldn't push too hard. Don't want to send him running for the hills. lol.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yaaay! :yay::yay:

Hope it continues!




TheCuriousWife said:


> Have I died and gone to heaven? He initiated sex during the day via text. (Statement not a question! Woot!) Things came up, so we weren't able to have sex right when he got home as planned, but it didn't derail him, and we still had sex later in the evening. Usually it would have killed the mood and/or it would have been used as an excuse not to do it that night. Very good sex again, and I tried on top again, which was a little more successful this time. Today he flirted a bit and brought back up the good time last night.  He never talks about sex. I feel like that is big progress.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good times are still rolling.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Glad to hear it. Keep on rolling ..


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Are things still going well Curious? Have you had another session with the therapist?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes and no.

The sex has been sort of lack luster. I developed a fever blister due to all the recent stress. So kissing and oral on him have been off the table. Considering those are a big part of our sex life, it just hasn't been as good. And I haven't been able to orgasm the last couple times. But it will pass. We have a wedding this weekend, and have a two night hotel room, so maybe a little getaway will be nice.

Counseling appointment is tomorrow. 

Thanks for checking in.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, how did the counseling appointment go? Anything new?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I honestly can't even remember everything talked about there. Mostly the "good enough sex model." 

It's getting frustrating because the sessions are only 45 minutes long. I feel like by the time we are starting to open up and get somewhere, it's time to leave. Arg.

We haven't had sex in a week due to period. I haven't seen him for several days, because I was gone for the weekend. I got home last night, but he had stayed up all weekend with friends, and fell asleep probably 30 minutes after I got home.

I feel really disconnected, and feel myself slipping into our old sexual funk. Where I'm horny, which makes me cranky, which makes me not want to have sex... Bad circle. 

Hopefully I can get a handle on things, and not let myself slip farther back down. I know I'm feeling irrational, it's just the hormones talking.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I honestly can't even remember everything talked about there. Mostly the "good enough sex model."
> 
> It's getting frustrating because the sessions are only 45 minutes long. I feel like by the time we are starting to open up and get somewhere, it's time to leave. Arg.
> 
> *I can relate to that. Seems like there is never sufficient time in a MC sessions. And as soon as something starts to unravel, it is time to try to patch things up and close up for the session.*
> 
> We haven't had sex in a week due to period. I haven't seen him for several days, because I was gone for the weekend. I got home last night, but he had stayed up all weekend with friends, and fell asleep probably 30 minutes after I got home.
> 
> I feel really disconnected, and feel myself slipping into our old sexual funk. Where I'm horny, which makes me cranky, which makes me not want to have sex... Bad circle.
> 
> Hopefully I can get a handle on things, and not let myself slip farther back down. I know I'm feeling irrational, it's just the hormones talking.


Sounds like what you want is the connection right now. It would be even better to know that he wants to connect and desires you, even though you have your period.

It seems like when you have your period, he takes it as an opportunity to remain a bit more distant. I hope this is not really the case, but from your description here and in the past it seems like period week is like his week off. Which is not exactly what you want. You want to feel desired 365 days of the year.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I honestly can't even remember everything talked about there. Mostly the "good enough sex model."
> 
> It's getting frustrating because the sessions are only 45 minutes long. I feel like by the time we are starting to open up and get somewhere, it's time to leave. Arg.
> 
> We haven't had sex in a week due to period. I haven't seen him for several days, because I was gone for the weekend. I got home last night, but he had stayed up all weekend with friends, and fell asleep probably 30 minutes after I got home.
> 
> I feel really disconnected, and feel myself slipping into our old sexual funk. Where I'm horny, which makes me cranky, which makes me not want to have sex... Bad circle.
> 
> Hopefully I can get a handle on things, and not let myself slip farther back down. I know I'm feeling irrational, it's just the hormones talking.


Why can't you have sex on your period? If it's from the "ick" factor, then there are many ways to get around that. You can use a menstrual cup(there are different brands you can try), have sex in the shower, he can wear a condom, and so on. I don't get why a period would get in the way of sex and would definitely be talking about it with him. 

Break the cycle and have sex tonight. No excuses.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

^ ^ ^
:iagree:

Menstruation has never gotten in the way of a sensuous encounter for me or SO. I don't get all these squeamish men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Sounds like what you want is the connection right now. It would be even better to know that he wants to connect and desires you, even though you have your period.
> 
> It seems like when you have your period, he takes it as an opportunity to remain a bit more distant. I hope this is not really the case, but from your description here and in the past it seems like period week is like his week off. Which is not exactly what you want. You want to feel desired 365 days of the year.


Yes. 100%. He has openly stated multiple times that period week is his week to relax and get a break from "me."

Not exactly heart warming. 

In the past few months things have been better. Still no sex, but he has been affectionate and still made me feel desired and loved. 

But this week has stunk. And I'm sure partly because I was away from him for a few days, so I'm feeling extra affection less. Also I haven't been able to take care of things my self, so I'm sure that is fueling the monster.

The bad part is when I get so horny and distant it is very hard for me emotionally to get back in the groove. When he tries to snuggle or kiss me I kind of feel like pushing him away. Which is counter productive, and not fair to him. But I just can't seem to help it.

Especially when like last night he wants to kiss and get me all worked up, then he says something like, "can't wait to have sex tomorrow." And goes back to tv watching or reading, or whatever. 

He thinks he is being sexy, or giving me a little something to hold me over. But when I'm this horny, it really just makes me want to smack him. lol. All I could think was, "why can't we have sex now?"

I almost cried last night, and it's ridiculous that I'm being this irrational. He tried to snuggle me. It's not that he isn't trying to be sweet to me, or affectionate. But at this point I'm just a grouchy B, who needs to get laid. Forcefully. None of that snuggling crap. >


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You should have told him how it made you feel Curious.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> Why can't you have sex on your period? If it's from the "ick" factor, then there are many ways to get around that. You can use a menstrual cup(there are different brands you can try), have sex in the shower, he can wear a condom, and so on. I don't get why a period would get in the way of sex and would definitely be talking about it with him.
> 
> Break the cycle and have sex tonight. No excuses.


This was part of the compromise.

He will have sex with me every other day, but he gets a week off a month to relax and not feel pressured to perform.

I will admit, it helps him be more into it the rest of the time. He just can't keep up with every other day. So this helps to refuel his tank.

For 3 years now, we've argued and hashed it out. We got nowhere. When I finally stopped bugging him, and just accepted the fact that we weren't going to have sex during my period things got a lot better. I don't expect anything from him, and therefore don't get disappointed.

He isn't afraid that I will try to talk him into it, so he is more open to snuggling and flirting.

Usually it works out okay. But this week just really got to me. 

In an ideal world, I would be having sex during my period. But, considering the circumstances, it just really works out better this way.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> You should have told him how it made you feel Curious.


I agree. But I just don't feel like talking about it again. 

He knows how I get. We've been over this dozens of times. He doesn't understand at all. He just says, "if you are so horny, then why do you push me away when I try to have sex?"

Which rationally, is true. But I'm not being rational. I just get so upset, that I pull away. I'm not thinking clearly, and I realize it doesn't make sense. But I can't figure out a way to stop it. 

The only way to prevent this is to nip it in the bud when I'm starting to slide. That means, not going a week without sex. Or getting more attention and affection, so I don't feel so neglected without it.

After being gone for the weekend I knew I was teetering on the edge, but I was able to keep myself in check. I get home, and he falls asleep without barely acknowledging my presence, and that was just the last straw. 

Now another day has passed. 

Hopefully tonight we will get this worked out. It's been a while since we've fallen into this cycle. I've really tried to work on myself, so I don't depend so much on his affection. But I guess I'm not quite there yet.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Why could you not take care of yourself?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Why could you not take care of yourself?


I was traveling with family, and only getting about 5 hours sleep. Besides the fact that I was sharing a room in a friend's house. It just wasn't possible.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
I think all of use in HD/LD relationships have experienced this. Somehow our LD partners just can't understand. It doesn't matter how many times we explain, their response to sex is so different that it makes no sense to them.





TheCuriousWife said:


> snip
> Especially when like last night he wants to kiss and get me all worked up, then he says something like, "can't wait to have sex tomorrow." And goes back to tv watching or reading, or whatever.
> 
> He thinks he is being sexy, or giving me a little something to hold me over. But when I'm this horny, it really just makes me want to smack him. lol. All I could think was, "why can't we have sex now?"
> snip


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This was part of the compromise.
> 
> *He will have sex with me every other day, but he gets a week off a month to relax and not feel pressured to perform.*
> 
> I will admit, it helps him be more into it the rest of the time. He just can't keep up with every other day. So this helps to refuel his tank.
> 
> For 3 years now, we've argued and hashed it out. We got nowhere. When I finally stopped bugging him, and just accepted the fact that we weren't going to have sex during my period things got a lot better. I don't expect anything from him, and therefore don't get disappointed.
> 
> He isn't afraid that I will try to talk him into it, so he is more open to snuggling and flirting.
> 
> Usually it works out okay. But this week just really got to me.
> 
> In an ideal world, I would be having sex during my period. But, considering the circumstances, it just really works out better this way.


That's only 120 sexual encounters in a year!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

And that is if we have sex everyday. Which we don't. It's closer to 2 times a week. 

Ah well. Anyway we did have sex last night. But it was pretty poor. 

Husband couldn't keep an erection, even after 8 days off. It was getting frustrating, and you could tell he was growing bored. So we finished him up, and I will get my turn another day.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And that is if we have sex everyday. Which we don't. *It's closer to 2 times a week.*
> 
> Ah well. Anyway we did have sex last night. But it was pretty poor.
> 
> *Husband couldn't keep an erection, even after 8 days off*. It was getting frustrating, and you could tell *he was growing bored.* So we finished him up, and I will get my turn another day.


That's only 104 times in a year if you're at 2/wk. Just seems really low for a couple in their 20s.

This is JMHO, but I think the shock of risking divorce is wearing off. You may be able to shock him 1 or 2 more times; however, each time you do it the effect will be smaller. I think you came full circle and have at best marginal improvements.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Husband couldn't keep an erection, even after 8 days off. It was getting frustrating, and you could tell he was growing bored. *So we finished him up, and I will get my turn another day.*



Bolded part.... Stop doing that. 

I mean it! 

If your pleasure isn't part of the program, do not continue.


Good lord Curious have I taught you nothing? I feel so ignored....


----------



## Sure that could work

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> And that is if we have sex everyday. Which we don't. It's closer to 2 times a week.
> 
> Ah well. Anyway we did have sex last night. But it was pretty poor.
> 
> Husband couldn't keep an erection, even after 8 days off. It was getting frustrating, and you could tell he was growing bored. So we finished him up, and I will get my turn another day.


I have read your thread and am in awe at your passion and enthusiasm, it seems that your passion and enthusiasm have carried the two of you through these first few years of married life. In this post I fear I hear that passion and enthusiasm gone. Please do not let this marriage and this partner take that passion and enthusiasm away.

I have been in that new marriage that was hard, maybe too hard. Many years later I am still in that marriage and it has taken a lot to get to where it is today. Looking back I am not sure if it was worth all the work or not. Only you can decide if you want your marriage to be this hard forever. It gets much harder when children come along.

Would it help to talk between MC and make a list of things to talk about so maybe you could get more answers at each session instead of feeling like you aren't making enough progress? Sometimes in life there is a plateau that you stay on for a while, perhaps that is where you guys are now?


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

"He will have sex with me every other day, but he gets a week off a month to relax and not feel pressured to perform."

Wow the passion in your relationship is so overwhelming....NOT.

Sure understand why you want to keep this relationship going....NOT.

Curious, you don't get it....you are not a priority. the fact that you don't give up is admirable, you are doing all you can, but it takes 2.

I now promise to never ever look at this thread again!!! 

Good luck to you.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Bolded part.... Stop doing that.
> 
> I mean it!
> 
> If your pleasure isn't part of the program, do not continue.
> 
> 
> Good lord Curious have I taught you nothing? I feel so ignored....


Yep. Why on earth would you finish him off? HE is the one that can't keep it up. HE is the one that is bored. HE is the one that has a can take it or leave it attitude about sex. And yet you feel like HE needs to be satisfied. No. HE needs an a$$ kicking of the highest order. HE needs to get the fvck over himself and make his wife happy. 

For Mr. Curious. Not that he'll ever see it, but I need to rant.

Can't keep it up? Hey you got fingers and a tongue and your wife has a vibe that you could use as well. Get with the fvcking program. Take pleasure in giving her pleasure! It's the one thing you can give her that no one else can or ever has! Do you realize how special that is?! You are the only person to ever give your wife sexual pleasure. You are the only person she equates with the most intimate of acts! But the day may come when she will stop. You will come to represent frustration and disappointment to her. And she may, God willing, finally have her fill and go find someone who does take pleasure in her pleasure! Holy Hell!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This was part of the *compromise.*
> 
> He will have sex with me every other day, but *he gets a week off a month to relax and not feel pressured to perform.*


:wtf:

_*sigh*_

Some things, apparently, just don't change.

A WEEK OFF, to "give him a break" from YOU (and ALL that pressure??) I will say it again... :wtf:

I went back to the very first post in this thread, hundreds of pages ago (265, to be exact). By my reasoning, very little has changed. He is still selfish, you are still frustrated, the counselor really isn't helping (except to insert more "rules" that he manipulates to his advantage). He is still going limp midway through most sexual encounters.

CW... I hope you wake up and smell the coffee.

Your husband thinks of you as a pal, a roommate. He will never DESIRE you the way a woman deserves to be desired. And ravished. And loved. And seduced. As in "can't keep his hands off of you." There is no chemistry or spark here on his part. You are "one of the gang." You are a "chore" in his mind. 

Who wants to go through life being a "chore"? Very sad.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Bolded part.... Stop doing that.
> 
> I mean it!
> 
> If your pleasure isn't part of the program, do not continue.
> 
> 
> Good lord Curious have I taught you nothing? I feel so ignored....


 You have taught me lots.

I could have worded that better....

It was my choice. I wanted to. In fact I had to argue with him about it. It wasn't like he just gave up, or didn't want to continue.

I mean, he was trying. But I just wasn't in the mood, and I wasn't getting much from it. If I wasn't having any fun, why let it drag on? By that point I knew it wasn't going to get anywhere, so I made him stop.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Yep. Why on earth would you finish him off? HE is the one that can't keep it up. HE is the one that is bored. HE is the one that has a can take it or leave it attitude about sex. And yet you feel like HE needs to be satisfied. No. HE needs an a$$ kicking of the highest order. HE needs to get the fvck over himself and make his wife happy.
> 
> For Mr. Curious. Not that he'll ever see it, but I need to rant.
> 
> Can't keep it up? Hey you got fingers and a tongue and your wife has a vibe that you could use as well. Get with the fvcking program. Take pleasure in giving her pleasure! It's the one thing you can give her that no one else can or ever has! Do you realize how special that is?! You are the only person to ever give your wife sexual pleasure. You are the only person she equates with the most intimate of acts! But the day may come when she will stop. You will come to represent frustration and disappointment to her. And she may, God willing, finally have her fill and go find someone who does take pleasure in her pleasure! Holy Hell!


I love how much you guys care about me.  Thanks, it does mean a lot. 

He DID use his hands, and give me oral. He wasn't whining about his ED or anything like that. It was ME who just wasn't into it.

I was already cranky, and after he started going limp several times, I did let bad thoughts creep in. Not really his fault. But it just added to my bad mood. I was the one who chose to end the session.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Is he still refusing to try the Viagra?


----------



## Eagle3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious i have been following your thread for a long time and have chimed in on occasion. I really wish things were diffferent for you and you deserve that. But i think you really dont want to see the writing on the wall. You have vaulable veteran posters here giving you advice and such but it does not seem to be getting thru.

I know its scary to know what you want in a marriage and a husband will not come from this guy. I am sorry but that is the end game here. Why do i say that. Cause you will come on here and tell us all the crappy things he does to make you feel this way, makes you do all the work. But when people come to you and say this about him you change the story. 

What was once posted of him being selfish and not caring, you will post later that is was your fault or he did this great so you should not complain. You cant tell us he does this and that and change it later to make it seem its not that bad. Its obviously that bad.

You are putting all the work in your marriage. You should not have to beg and plead to make your husband want to desire you and make love to you.

You are going to have either say i can live with him and have a marriage of no real passion or tell him you cant go on like this. Either way one or the other has to happen.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> This was part of the compromise.
> 
> He will have sex with me every other day, but he gets a week off a month to relax and not feel pressured to perform.
> 
> I will admit, it helps him be more into it the rest of the time. He just can't keep up with every other day. So this helps to refuel his tank.
> 
> For 3 years now, we've argued and hashed it out. We got nowhere. When I finally stopped bugging him, and just accepted the fact that we weren't going to have sex during my period things got a lot better. I don't expect anything from him, and therefore don't get disappointed.
> 
> He isn't afraid that I will try to talk him into it, so he is more open to snuggling and flirting.
> 
> Usually it works out okay. But this week just really got to me.
> 
> In an ideal world, I would be having sex during my period. But, considering the circumstances, it just really works out better this way.


Sounds like the "compromise" works for him, but not for you.  I wish things were better for you. 



TheCuriousWife said:


> And that is if we have sex everyday. Which we don't. It's closer to 2 times a week.
> 
> Ah well. Anyway we did have sex last night. But it was pretty poor.
> 
> Husband couldn't keep an erection, even after 8 days off. It was getting frustrating, and you could tell he was growing bored.* So we finished him up, and I will get my turn another day*.


NO, no, no. Why did you do that for him when he does so little for you? He can't even keep an erection after more than a week and you help him get off. He should have been doing everything he could to make you happy after that much time apart. He has absolutely no excuse either. He better make you very happy in bed tonight to make up for this huge mistake. If he doesn't, there should be a big talk about it because it is bs that he does not put in the effort.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Saw a program on TV the other night about men that have Madonna/***** Complex. Perhaps Mr. Curious views you as a Madonna and that's why he can't maintain an erection during sex. Freud wrote: "Where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love." 

Just a thought.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> :wtf:
> 
> _*sigh*_
> 
> Some things, apparently, just don't change.
> 
> A WEEK OFF, to "give him a break" from YOU (and ALL that pressure??) I will say it again... :wtf:
> 
> I went back to the very first post in this thread, hundreds of pages ago (265, to be exact). By my reasoning, very little has changed. He is still selfish, you are still frustrated, the counselor really isn't helping (except to insert more "rules" that he manipulates to his advantage). He is still going limp midway through most sexual encounters.
> 
> CW... I hope you wake up and smell the coffee.
> 
> Your husband thinks of you as a pal, a roommate. He will never DESIRE you the way a woman deserves to be desired. And ravished. And loved. And seduced. As in "can't keep his hands off of you." There is no chemistry or spark here on his part. You are "one of the gang." You are a "chore" in his mind.
> 
> Who wants to go through life being a "chore"? Very sad.



You are right for the most part. Although there have been small improvements. Up until this last week, we had been doing good for a couple months now. So I don't think one bad week deserves to over shadow several months of progress. Every marriage goes through ups and downs.


But it's true, I'm still not desired the way I want to be. I know that he doesn't have that passion for me, and that he has to make a conscious effort to be sexual.

ETA: The week off is nothing new. It's been like that for a long time now.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> Is he still refusing to try the Viagra?


Yes. It hasn't been an issue. But it's time to bring it back up again.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Eagle3 said:


> Curious i have been following your thread for a long time and have chimed in on occasion. I really wish things were diffferent for you and you deserve that. But i think you really dont want to see the writing on the wall. You have vaulable veteran posters here giving you advice and such but it does not seem to be getting thru.
> 
> I know its scary to know what you want in a marriage and a husband will not come from this guy. I am sorry but that is the end game here. Why do i say that. Cause you will come on here and tell us all the crappy things he does to make you feel this way, makes you do all the work. But when people come to you and say this about him you change the story.
> 
> What was once posted of him being selfish and not caring, you will post later that is was your fault or he did this great so you should not complain. You cant tell us he does this and that and change it later to make it seem its not that bad. Its obviously that bad.
> 
> You are putting all the work in your marriage. You should not have to beg and plead to make your husband want to desire you and make love to you.
> 
> You are going to have either say i can live with him and have a marriage of no real passion or tell him you cant go on like this. Either way one or the other has to happen.



I know many people here are much wiser than me. I do take to heart what they tell me. I believe them, I know they are right. But I still fight tooth and nail. It's my nature. I haven't reached my personal breaking point yet. 

You are right about me defending him. Usually I post when I'm emotional. Then once I settle down I come back and realize that I was being dramatic, or I only shared the bad side. Some stuff is definitely all him. But I won't pretend I'm perfect. I do contribute to our issues.

Last night I came into sex with a bad attitude. Could he have handled things differently. Heck yes. Could I? Also yes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> Sounds like the "compromise" works for him, but not for you.  I wish things were better for you.


Sadly. It doesn't work for him either. He still can't keep erections sometimes, and sex is still too often for him. We have been trying to sort this out with the counselor. 



> NO, no, no. Why did you do that for him when he does so little for you? He can't even keep an erection after more than a week and you help him get off. He should have been doing everything he could to make you happy after that much time apart. He has absolutely no excuse either. He better make you very happy in bed tonight to make up for this huge mistake. If he doesn't, there should be a big talk about it because it is bs that he does not put in the effort.


I don't know. I just wanted it to be over. 

Perhaps if I feel up to it, I will ask for an oral for only me session tonight.


----------



## Eagle3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW, i just wanted to add i hope i didnt come across as harsh, i am on your side and really feel bad you are in your situation. I was hoping that maybe something i have observed could be helpful. I hope you find happiness soon no matter what the outcome is.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Sadly. It doesn't work for him either. He still can't keep erections sometimes, and sex is still too often for him. We have been trying to sort this out with the counselor.
> 
> I don't know. I just wanted it to be over.
> 
> Perhaps if I feel up to it, I will ask for an oral for only me session tonight.


Compromise has to follow the "policy of joint agreement"(if you google it, there is more info on it) in order to really work. It shouldn't just be what is least bad for both of you, but what both of you can happily agree to. If you can not happily agree to something, then you just may be too different and you should relook at the relationship. 

If you want it to be over, then just stop. I wouldn't get him off if he just left me hanging. Relationships/marriage are about give and take, but you just keep giving while he takes. At some point it's going to get extremely old and there will be more resentment than you can deal with. Stop giving so much when he does not do the same for you. He needs to step up to the plate to make sure your needs are met, too. You meet his needs when he meets yours, otherwise you don't help him out.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> Compromise has to follow the "policy of joint agreement"(if you google it, there is more info on it) in order to really work. It shouldn't just be what is least bad for both of you, but what both of you can happily agree to. If you can not happily agree to something, then you just may be too different and you should relook at the relationship.
> 
> If you want it to be over, then just stop. I wouldn't get him off if he just left me hanging. Relationships/marriage are about give and take, but you just keep giving while he takes. At some point it's going to get extremely old and there will be more resentment than you can deal with. Stop giving so much when he does not do the same for you. He needs to step up to the plate to make sure your needs are met, too. You meet his needs when he meets yours, otherwise you don't help him out.


Really? If it's not going good for me, I should stop and ruin the time for both of us?

I hadn't considered that before... It just seems so mean. :scratchhead:

I understand if he is being a butt about it, or lazy. But sometimes it just isn't going to happen despite effort. Do I treat it the same way? Should I expect to get off every single time he does? Intrigued.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Have you considered that this is who he is biologically. This is it, and this is the best as it is going to get and it is downhill from here when his sex drive declines further and when you in 5 or 10 years will reach your sexual peak. There comes a point where you are asking him more than he is capable of because he may just simply lack a lust and perhaps a romance drive. He is already asking you to accept less romance, passion, and less sex. In five years time he will ask for even less as he is less capable.

If he is capable of passion and romance, then it is not with you. People will often marry people that they simply are not attracted to but there is some other cause that they will decide that it is worth marrying for. He may simply see you more of a best friend than a romantic partner or mate.

From an outside perspective, he married his friend that on rare occasions when his sex drive kicks in, he will be more romantic and flirty because as low as his drive is, he needs someone to scratch that itch whenever he does feel it.

Normally, when an LD person originally had sparks, it is possible to rekindle that honeymoon phase, but your relationship is different as strong romantic love, nor attraction was never there.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Mr. Fisty... I couldn't "like" your post enough... so I "agreed" multiple times.

Wise advice, CW. Pay heed...


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Really? If it's not going good for me, I should stop and ruin the time for both of us?
> 
> I hadn't considered that before... It just seems so mean. :scratchhead:
> 
> I understand if he is being a butt about it, or lazy. But sometimes it just isn't going to happen despite effort. Do I treat it the same way? Should I expect to get off every single time he does? Intrigued.


How is it going "good" for him when he isn't keeping an erection and basically does not care at all about sex? You are not "ruining" it for both of you. You are just letting him stop putting in effort in a place he does not care for. You are basically doing him a favor, as he doesn't want sex to begin with. He has sex to make you happy or should I say to avoid conflict, not because he has a desire for it. If the sex just isn't working, then stop. What is the point in continuing? So you can say, "oh we had sex today"? That doesn't really do anything for either of you, so you might as well just stop.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> How is it going "good" for him when he isn't keeping an erection and basically does not care at all about sex? You are not "ruining" it for both of you. You are just letting him stop putting in effort in a place he does not care for. You are basically doing him a favor, as he doesn't want sex to begin with. He has sex to make you happy or should I say to avoid conflict, not because he has a desire for it. If the sex just isn't working, then stop. What is the point in continuing? So you can say, "oh we had sex today"? That doesn't really do anything for either of you, so you might as well just stop.


True. I hadn't thought of it that way...

But he does like orgasms. 

Who knows. Maybe he would try a little harder if his orgasm depended on it. 

He is going to be awfully surprised. >


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mr.Fisty said:


> Have you considered that this is who he is biologically. This is it, and this is the best as it is going to get and it is downhill from here when his sex drive declines further and when you in 5 or 10 years will reach your sexual peak. There comes a point where you are asking him more than he is capable of because he may just simply lack a lust and perhaps a romance drive. He is already asking you to accept less romance, passion, and less sex. In five years time he will ask for even less as he is less capable.
> 
> If he is capable of passion and romance, then it is not with you. People will often marry people that they simply are not attracted to but there is some other cause that they will decide that it is worth marrying for. He may simply see you more of a best friend than a romantic partner or mate.
> 
> From an outside perspective, he married his friend that on rare occasions when his sex drive kicks in, he will be more romantic and flirty because as low as his drive is, he needs someone to scratch that itch whenever he does feel it.
> 
> Normally, when an LD person originally had sparks, it is possible to rekindle that honeymoon phase, but your relationship is different as strong romantic love, nor attraction was never there.


Ouch. Thanks for your honesty. Something to ponder.

I definitely fear that things will get worse not better.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> True. I hadn't thought of it that way...
> 
> But he does like orgasms.
> 
> Who knows. *Maybe he would try a little harder if his orgasm depended on it. *
> 
> He is going to be awfully surprised. >



THAT'S IT!!!!!!!

That's the whole point you silly woman. 

Of course it's natural to come here and write out your emotions while you're feeling them pretty strongly and then after some time passes you feel them less strongly and more variables, such as your possible contributions enter the picture. That's to be expected. But you do have a tendency to defend him after the fact. I think Eagle's point is something on which you might want to think a little more.

If he can't keep an erection, sex is feeling like a chore, you're not feeling it and his penis is clearly not feeling it, end the session. Do not take care of him. This continues his mindset that he ALWAYS gets off but you getting off is optional. It isn't an option. Unfortunately, in your marriage, he must come to understand that his effort to romance and lust after you, leading to you being in the right frame of mind in order to orgasm, is equal to you focusing your effort on him to keep an erection and thus have his orgasm. 

Think of it like a teeter totter in which one side is longer than the other thus making the shorter side need more weight that the longer side in order to balance. He is on the shorter side; he needs to put more effort in in order for you to be in the right mindset. You're on the longer side.

Can you do that? It may seem mean at first but it's really the only honest way to deal with his lack of effort. If the sex session isn't going well, you're not in the right mind and he can't keep an erection...end it. It obviously isn't going well for either of you.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> THAT'S IT!!!!!!!
> 
> That's the whole point you silly woman.
> 
> Of course it's natural to come here and write out your emotions while you're feeling them pretty strongly and then after some time passes you feel them less strongly and more variables, such as your possible contributions enter the picture. That's to be expected. But you do have a tendency to defend him after the fact. I think Eagle's point is something on which you might want to think a little more.
> 
> If he can't keep an erection, sex is feeling like a chore, you're not feeling it and his penis is clearly not feeling it, end the session. Do not take care of him. This continues his mindset that he ALWAYS gets off but you getting off is optional. It isn't an option. Unfortunately, in your marriage, he must come to understand that his effort to romance and lust after you, leading to you being in the right frame of mind in order to orgasm, is equal to you focusing your effort on him to keep an erection and thus have his orgasm.
> 
> Think of it like a teeter totter in which one side is longer than the other thus making the shorter side need more weight that the longer side in order to balance. He is on the shorter side; he needs to put more effort in in order for you to be in the right mindset. You're on the longer side.
> 
> Can you do that? It may seem mean at first but it's really the only honest way to deal with his lack of effort. If the sex session isn't going well, you're not in the right mind and he can't keep an erection...end it. It obviously isn't going well for either of you.


I will definitely work harder to keep myself in check about defending him.

Also the more I think about it, the more I think this is a great idea! It had honestly never crossed my mind, but I'm seeing the possibilities now. 

I won't feel resentful that it won't be my turn again for several days, and he won't complain about me laying there like a dead fish because if it is sucking we will just stop and try again another time.

I think this will push him to try a little harder.

What an excellent idea! Thanks! You guys rock.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Did you get your turn last night?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Did you get your turn last night?


We got home too late for me to feel up to it.

But I did have lots of alone time earlier in the day, and am feeling much better... 

Tonight is our last counseling session for four weeks Don't have a single weekday evening off until then. That's how busy I am. Yikes.


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well awesome that you took care of business, but it's a shame you had to.

Is your H's name Sheldon by chance?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> Well awesome that you took care of business, but it's a shame you had to.
> 
> Is your H's name Sheldon by chance?


No but I wish it was.  I could probably handle Sheldon better.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Wow! So much really spot-on, honest, valuable commentary from so many people over the last 2 days.

I hope you're taking it all in, Curious. Sooner or later you're going to realize that this many outside, objective, third party observers really can't all be wrong!

I think until relatively recently in this thread, some of us were holding back a bit at times and being a little reserved in completely stating what we were really thinking about your situation, out of a concern for not wanting to tell you anything you weren't quite ready to hear. But you are starting to get more and more brutally honest feedback overall now, and I think you are more capable of hearing it. 

You are getting a lot of really, really excellent feedback from a lot of different people, regardless of how you choose to use it. Whatever you do with it, I hope it helps you.


----------



## justfabulous

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He's still going limp during sex, still losing those erections -- and still refusing to try the little blue pill the doc gave him a sample of... 

Yep, he really cares about his wife's pleasure and satisfaction, doesn't he? (Not).

Here’s what I find disturbing. 

Quite some time ago, when you finally got through to him about the fact that you viewed your sexual incompatibility to be a problem so serious that it put the future of the marriage at risk, he said he would do whatever it takes to fix things, as I recall. Said he didn't know you guys had a problem (absurdly lame), but now that he was aware, he would do whatever it took. 

That was just prior to agreeing to marriage counselling.

And yet:

1)	He _refused_ to share in the cost of the marriage counselling - said you'd have to foot the bill. Hmmm. Nice.

2)	On the very first week of counselling he wouldn’t even complete the simple reading assignment he was asked to do as homework for following week. Real dedication there. 

3)	To this day, he won’t even TRY the free sample of Viagra he has from the doctor. It’s one pill, one time. Just take it to see what happens. Taking it once will cause him absolutely no harm. But, no.

4)	And he also flatly refuses to try any _natural_ supplements which could improve his erections– if I recall something you said some time ago, he is opposed to even taking _vitamins_ that could improve erections. 

This is his idea of being willing to do _whatever it takes _to resolve your sexual incompatibility and save your marriage?

Holy cow.

I mean, he’s barely even going through the motions. 

The blatant lack of effort he puts in is truly an insult.


----------



## Illbehisfoolagain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am not trying to be trollish when I say this, but it really sounds like your husband is a man who doesnt like vagina. Maybe he likes something else better but he's been in denial his whole life? Are you guys religious, or was he raised religious? I have not read the entire 268 page thread of course, but from the little bit I did read, that is what I gathered from it.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



justfabulous said:


> He's still going limp during sex, still losing those erections -- and still refusing to try the little blue pill the doc gave him a sample of...
> 
> Yep, he really cares about his wife's pleasure and satisfaction, doesn't he? (Not).
> 
> Here’s what I find disturbing.
> 
> Quite some time ago, when you finally got through to him about the fact that you viewed your sexual incompatibility to be a problem so serious that it put the future of the marriage at risk, he said he would do whatever it takes to fix things, as I recall. Said he didn't know you guys had a problem (absurdly lame), but now that he was aware, he would do whatever it took.
> 
> That was just prior to agreeing to marriage counselling.
> 
> And yet:
> 
> 1)	He _refused_ to share in the cost of the marriage counselling - said you'd have to foot the bill. Hmmm. Nice.
> 
> 2)	On the very first week of counselling he wouldn’t even complete the simple reading assignment he was asked to do as homework for following week. Real dedication there.
> 
> 3)	To this day, he won’t even TRY the free sample of Viagra he has from the doctor. It’s one pill, one time. Just take it to see what happens. Taking it once will cause him absolutely no harm. But, no.
> 
> 4)	And he also flatly refuses to try any _natural_ supplements which could improve his erections– if I recall something you said some time ago, he is opposed to even taking _vitamins_ that could improve erections.
> 
> This is his idea of being willing to do _whatever it takes _to resolve your sexual incompatibility and save your marriage?
> 
> Holy cow.
> 
> I mean, he’s barely even going through the motions.
> 
> The blatant lack of effort he puts in is truly an insult.




I am surprised that the therapist is not getting the truth from him. His lack of motivation only appears to be on the romantic, and lust side. That means, CW does not do it for him, whatever the reason.

She has to learn to accept that fact. She does not activate his lust, or romance centers. For whatever reason, he was never honest with her, and that keeps her holding on because he is motivated to protect himself. Her pain, anguish,, is not enough for him to be honest with her. What motivates him to hold his tongue has priority over her struggles.

What keeps her hanging on is the friendship aspect of their relationship, and that combined that she does have romantic feelings for him, makes it harder for her to really step back, and view this situation with a level of detachment. She wants romance, and lust from him that he simply does not have for her.

She also fell into the trap of trusting his words instead of the actions and lack there of.

Until he tells her the truth, she will keep trying and trying and waste her energy on something that she never had a real chance in fixing because he lacks the courage of dealing with reality and being honest.

Whatever he is holding back, he is too selfish to let her have a real chance at a fulfilling life. He knows at this point that he is not giving her a fulfilling sex life, and he offered no alternative, and yet, the romance and lust part of the relationship is somehow the only part he has trouble giving real effort to.


----------



## MeatTrain

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Mr.Fisty said:


> I am surprised that the therapist is not getting the truth from him. His lack of motivation only appears to be on the romantic, and lust side. That means, CW does not do it for him, whatever the reason.
> 
> She has to learn to accept that fact. She does not activate his lust, or romance centers. For whatever reason, he was never honest with her, and that keeps her holding on because he is motivated to protect himself. Her pain, anguish,, is not enough for him to be honest with her. What motivates him to hold his tongue has priority over her struggles.
> 
> What keeps her hanging on is the friendship aspect of their relationship, and that combined that she does have romantic feelings for him, makes it harder for her to really step back, and view this situation with a level of detachment. She wants romance, and lust from him that he simply does not have for her.
> 
> She also fell into the trap of trusting his words instead of the actions and lack there of.
> 
> Until he tells her the truth, she will keep trying and trying and waste her energy on something that she never had a real chance in fixing because he lacks the courage of dealing with reality and being honest.
> 
> Whatever he is holding back, he is too selfish to let her have a real chance at a fulfilling life. He knows at this point that he is not giving her a fulfilling sex life, and he offered no alternative, and yet, the romance and lust part of the relationship is somehow the only part he has trouble giving real effort to.


This a thousand times. CW, you should really digest the words of this poster and consider them deeply.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well after all this doom and gloom. (Which is spot on)

I just have one thing to say at this time.
*
We had sex three days in a row, initiated by him.... WTH*

Be back soon to reply directly to recent posts.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> During your period week; even if you guys can't (for whatever reason) have sex - can you at least cuddle and hold and kiss? Another great thing to get on your period is a lower back rub - ahhh! You could reassure him that you are not asking for sex. You are asking for affection and closeness.
> 
> Sorry if that's been covered before, Curious. I've forgotten why period week is an "either/or" situation: ie. sex or nothing.


Cuddling, kidding, holding, does help to an extent. We've gotten better at being more non-sexually intimate at this time. And it had been helping the last few months. 

BUT. After not getting any sort of affection or intimacy for several days, and no sex for over a week, I was about the climb the walls. Then passionate kissing seems like torture. He thought he was being nice and giving me something to hold me over. But when he says things like, "can't wait to have sex in a couple days." etc, then it just feels like he is rubbing my nose in the fact that he won't have sex with me, right now.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

CW,

This I say with near certainty: He is genuinely trying to reassure you when he says that. Maybe he should instead say: thanks for being patient with me




TheCuriousWife said:


> Cuddling, kidding, holding, does help to an extent. We've gotten better at being more non-sexually intimate at this time. And it had been helping the last few months.
> 
> BUT. After not getting any sort of affection or intimacy for several days, and no sex for over a week, I was about the climb the walls. Then passionate kissing seems like torture. He thought he was being nice and giving me something to hold me over. But when he says things like, "can't wait to have sex in a couple days." etc, then it just feels like he is rubbing my nose in the fact that he won't have sex with me, right now.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just Fabulous, you are hitting the nail on the head.

Most of that is still correct although a few things have changed.

He did give me a lump sum to pay for half of our deductible, for the counseling. And he does do the assignments now, although I have to push him if it's reading material. 

Thank you for summarizing! This really puts it in perspective, and makes fine points to bring up the next time he complains about putting effort into our marriage.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> After not getting any sort of affection or intimacy for several days, and no sex for over a week, I was about the climb the walls. Then passionate kissing seems like torture. *He thought he was being nice and giving me something to hold me over.* But when he says things like, "can't wait to have sex in a couple days." etc, then it just feels like he is rubbing my nose in the fact that he won't have sex with me, right now.


"Can't wait to have sex in a couple days???"

CW, are you effing kidding me?!

Something to "hold you over???!!!" Without a solution to your IMMEDIATE needs? (WAIT TWO DAYS????) Because of some dumba$$ "rule" by the counselor (which, by the way, he is LOVING)????????

Last night, SO was tired from work, worn down. 13 hours in Cleveland at an all-day conference. Plus travel time. I could tell he really wasn't "in the mood." But knowing that I was "charged up", he pleasured me in ways beyond belief because _he realized_ *I needed it.* And he recognized it. And he satisfied.

That is what an UNSELFISH lover does. They pleasure you. Because they can. And NO ONE ELSE CAN.

Ask him... does he want you to go ELSEWHERE for your pleasure???

Time to make some HARD decisions...

He is going to lose you...


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> CW,
> 
> This I say with near certainty: He is genuinely trying to reassure you when he says that. Maybe he should instead say: thanks for being patient with me


I know it. I know he is being sincere. But, it's still not what your sex crazed spouse wants to hear.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Happy as a Clam brings me to my next point. 

The sex counselor is slowly digging through our issues, and I think is starting to see the totality of our situation. This last session we talked about how he won't have sex with me on my period. We also discussed that he refuses to acknowledge or use my vibrator, and that he "forbade" me to buy one. 

She was a bit shell shocked, and basically told him to put his big boy panties on and get over it. 

She asked him up front why he won't have period sex, or use the vibrator, and he used his normal lame excuses. But she didn't accept them. Then she asked him if he would be willing to _try_ and he said yes. Which I then called bologna on. 

She also asked if he would be willing to go to a sex shop to pick out some fun things which he said he would. Bologna again. I quickly called him out. (I've tried and tried to get him to go.)

Well anyway, I feel much better because I didn't let his smooth talking hide the truth. I stood up for myself. 

I think bringing up the Viagra issue would be a great discussion for our next session.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Something to "hold you over???!!!" Without a solution to your IMMEDIATE needs? (WAIT TWO DAYS????) Because of some dumba$$ "rule" by the counselor (which, by the way, he is LOVING)????????


Wait what rule from the counselor are you talking about?

She has fully supported me in the fact that he needs to step it up, and at least try to meet my needs. 

Also it's funny. She also discussed at the last session that he is the only one that can meet my needs, so he better, get better at it.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
Just my .02 but I wouldn't push the Viagra issue. It is the one place where he has a valid excuse that there are some risks / side effects. 

Instead let him know that when he doesn't have an erection you are happy if he takes care of you orally and / or with toys / vibrators - whichever you prefer.

I'm at an age where ED happens sometimes. I don't and won't take viagra, but I have always taken care of my wife in some other fashion (her choice of any or all of the above) when she was interested.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, As unbelieveable as your husband is....and lady he is TOTALLY unbelieveable, you really take the cake here. You are in outright pain about your situation, he throws you a bone (pun intented) of sex three times in one day, and you are right back in. Plain to me why he doesn't change (not that he ever will, he wont, people don't change unless they really want to and he doesn't want to) because HE DOES NOT NEED TO! 


I really need to quit reading this thread, reminds me of the scary movies. People go into a haunted house, lights don't work, but they go in any way, I think NO! NO! NO! but they do anyway.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just looked, this thread is 9 days from being two years. Yep, lots of improvement going on here. Why heck, he actually got a pill at the Dr office....wont take it, but heck! he got one didn't he!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Hoosier said:


> Curious, As unbelieveable as your husband is....and lady he is TOTALLY unbelieveable, you really take the cake here. You are in outright pain about your situation, he throws you a bone (pun intented) of sex three times in one day, and you are right back in. Plain to me why he doesn't change (not that he ever will, he wont, people don't change unless they really want to and he doesn't want to) because HE DOES NOT NEED TO!
> 
> 
> I really need to quit reading this thread, reminds me of the scary movies. People go into a haunted house, lights don't work, but they go in any way, I think NO! NO! NO! but they do anyway.


It was 3 days in a row. Not 3 times in one day.

And I am not "right back in." One time of good sex doesn't erase past hurts. There is just so much negativity in this thread, I thought would share some good news for once.

And you're right. If you don't like the movie, don't watch it.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

three days in a row (one time)...two years of trying.....sounds about right.


----------



## Hoosier

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Got to give you credit... you are really trying....I admire tenacity, and understand not wanting to give up. But it takes 2 to make it work, and lady, he isn't in that number. Like a car accident, this thread sucks you in.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Some of us don't give up as quickly as others.

ETA: Ha. We use the term "like a train wreck" around here. It's horrible, but you can't look away.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I will say that your situation could be a whole lot worse. 

Vent, vent, vent Forum


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Cuddling, kidding, holding, does help to an extent. We've gotten better at being more non-sexually intimate at this time. And it had been helping the last few months.
> 
> BUT. After not getting any sort of affection or intimacy for several days, and no sex for over a week, I was about the climb the walls. Then passionate kissing seems like torture. He thought he was being nice and giving me something to hold me over. But when he says things like, "can't wait to have sex in a couple days." etc, then it just feels like he is rubbing my nose in the fact that he won't have sex with me, right now.


CW, your husband is selfish and it's something I doubt is going to change. It' part of his make-up, just like his dna. He only does what works for him, putting in the bare minimum effort to keep things going. 

I am also married to a fairly selfish and lazy husband. He will pick a television show over having sex with me at times, which sadly doesn't even seem to bother me all that much anymore. The difference though is that we had an amazing sex life before and are getting back to it. There has been/is(at times) amazing lust/raw desire from my husband who really wants sex. Your husband never had that and I don't know if it's possible for him to get to that point. It has been almost 2 years now with very little change at all. Do you have a timeline for when you'll say enough is enough? It's great to try to work things out and really give it your all, but you don't want to forever waste your time on a man who won't change. I think it would be good for you to have a cutoff date in your head for when you'll end the marriage if things don't get to where you need them to be. Don't settle for blah either.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Agree with Hoosier and Anon07...

More than a year ago I chimed into this thread (with the same basic opinion then) and got lambasted by others because CW was a "new bride", trying to work out sexual "issues" in a "new marriage".

Huh? THAT was the honeymoon phase, and it was pretty bad then.

A year later and nothing much has changed, except it is perceptibly worse.

CW, I truly wish the very best for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I've been following your thread for a while. I think the counseling is good, and that you should direct your energy into making that blossom as much as possible. I realize your work schedules or your finances may not make it easy, but longer sessions (double booking), or more frequent sessions I think would be worth the effort. IMO, counseling is one of the last stops on the track, so I would hit it hard, and make the best out of it. Show no mercy.

I agree with the others in that your husband is selfish, and doesn't really care about your desires except where they fit in with his. If counseling doesn't work, and he continues his selfish behavior, I would ask him to move out of your bedroom, and into another room. If he doesn't start changing big time, you need to start making it painful for him to remain where he is. And by changing big time, I mean him doing what you ask, right away, all the way, and in a happy way. Every time, and all the time.

Oh, and your husband also appears to be a liar. Judging from the BS he spouts when at your counseling sessions. You need to hammer down on that big time.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Upon further reflection, I needed to add something. You've stated in the past that your relationship is quite good, except when it comes to intimacy. And I'd like to put a thought in front of you.

There's a quote I like, that goes : "_What counts in making a happy marriage is not so much how compatible you are, but how you deal with incompatibility_." 

You guys are fine when you both agree, and want the same thing. But everything falls apart when he doesn't want something you do. Not to preach to the choir, but marriage is about sacrificing yourself, for the good of the other person. Which is what love is.

_John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends._

Your husband needs to realize that his role in your marriage is serving you. And you need to think about the fact that he hasn't been willing to serve you when it is an inconvenience to himself. Which to me, reads just as well as "he only loves you when it is convenient for him". Which isn't love at all. It's highly immature, and entirely unacceptable in a marital relationship.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Some of us don't give up as quickly as others.
> 
> ETA: Ha. We use the term *"like a train wreck" around here. It's horrible, but you can't look away.*


CW... Why are doing this to yourself? Sticking around with him to view the "train wreck" of your own marriage??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Livvie

happy as a clam said:


> TheCuriousWife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of us don't give up as quickly as others.
> 
> ETA: Ha. We use the term *"like a train wreck" around here. It's horrible, but you can't look away.*
> 
> 
> 
> CW... Why are doing this to yourself? Sticking around with him to view the "train wreck" of your own marriage??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Maybe she has never (yet) experienced what a full, amazing, mutual sexual relationship is like. She can hear about it, but that's not the same as having lived it. Without the real life experience, maybe what she has doesn't feel wrong enough...it's all an intellectual comparison and not compelling enough....

I know I've struggled with that in my life.


----------



## BioFury

Some people take the oaths they make to God seriously


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Livvie said:


> Maybe she has never (yet) experienced what a full, amazing, mutual sexual relationship is like. She can hear about it, but that's not the same as having lived it. Without the real life experience, maybe what she has doesn't feel wrong enough...it's all an intellectual comparison and not compelling enough....
> 
> I know I've struggled with that in my life.


CW, does this ring true? Do you feel you are "missing out?"


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
Oaths are important, but a proper oath (like marriage, or an oath of allegiance) binds both parties. 





BioFury said:


> Some people take the oaths they make to God seriously


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> Oaths are important, but a proper oath (like marriage, or an oath of allegiance) binds both parties.


Very true. But, the other party not upholding their end, doesn't give us the right to not uphold ours. Unless of course that was stipulated in the oath. Which it is not, in most marriage vows I have heard.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
An interesting moral quandary. Is someone bound to an oath if the partner in that oath fails to hold to it?

In my opinion all oaths are essentially contracts, and violation of that oath by either side, releases the other. I could see other things being argued though.




BioFury said:


> Very true. But, the other party not upholding their end, doesn't give us the right to not uphold ours. Unless of course that was stipulated in the oath. Which it is not, in most marriage vows I have heard.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> An interesting moral quandary. Is someone bound to an oath if the partner in that oath fails to hold to it?
> 
> In my opinion all oaths are essentially contracts, and violation of that oath by either side, releases the other. I could see other things being argued though.


Marriage vows are contracts, but the oaths taken are not conditional, and thus do not absolve you of your commitment if the other party fails to uphold their end. But outside of all of that, marriage is a religious institution created by God. And according to Him, can only be righteously dissolved in the event of infidelity.

So even if someone was to word their vows to be conditional upon their spouse's fulfillment of their vows, it still wouldn't give them justification before God to divorce.

Which is why its kind of a big decision to make  Though not so much anymore. I don't know why people even bother getting married when they get all the milk of a relationship for free, and have no intention of keeping their vows should things go sideways. And things would hardly ever go sideways if people would just keep their vows, and marry someone with the same flippin values they have. Geez. Our entire society has entirely gone to heck. Anyway, I digress.


----------



## I Don't Know

So I can beat my wife as long as i don't cheat and god thinks she should stay married to me? Awesome. Now where did I put that stick...


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> So I can beat my wife as long as i don't cheat and god thinks she should stay married to me? Awesome. Now where did I put that stick...


Its called the civil government man, she takes you to the judge, and you get whipped 40 times. Very bad day for you. You wouldn't be able to lift a stick for several weeks . Next question.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Bio fury,

That wasn't the question. Why are you afraid to answer such a simple query? 

Is spousal violence a valid basis for divorce according to your values? 







BioFury said:


> Its called the civil government man, she takes you to the judge, and you get whipped 40 times. Very bad day for you. You wouldn't be able to lift a stick for several weeks . Next question.


----------



## richardsharpe

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good evening
I can't comment on what God does or does not approve. 

Many people get and stay happily married their entire lives - of course we rarely see them here. Where things get tricky is when someone's spouse is not willing to try to make them happy. What then? What if you have misjudged the person you married and they treat you badly. Should an evil person who misrepresents themselves until marriage be rewarded with what is essentially a slave for the rest of their lives? 




BioFury said:


> Marriage vows are contracts, but the oaths taken are not conditional, and thus do not absolve you of your commitment if the other party fails to uphold their end. But outside of all of that, marriage is a religious institution created by God. And according to Him, can only be righteously dissolved in the event of infidelity.
> 
> So even if someone was to word their vows to be conditional upon their spouse's fulfillment of their vows, it still wouldn't give them justification before God to divorce.
> 
> Which is why its kind of a big decision to make  Though not so much anymore. I don't know why people even bother getting married when they get all the milk of a relationship for free, and have no intention of keeping their vows should things go sideways. And things would hardly ever go sideways if people would just keep their vows, and marry someone with the same flippin values they have. Geez. Our entire society has entirely gone to heck. Anyway, I digress.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Bio fury,
> 
> That wasn't the question. Why are you afraid to answer such a simple query?
> 
> Is spousal violence a valid basis for divorce according to your values?


I did just answer the question. Spousal violence is met with civil punishment, but I'll write a more detailed response if you guys so desire. I know most of you guys think of divorce as the solution to most serious marital problems. But thats simply not a biblical viewpoint. And they aren't my values, I am merely reflecting God's values. 

_Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery._

_Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so._



richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I can't comment on what God does or does not approve.
> 
> Many people get and stay happily married their entire lives - of course we rarely see them here. Where things get tricky is when someone's spouse is not willing to try to make them happy. What then? What if you have misjudged the person you married and they treat you badly. Should an evil person who misrepresents themselves until marriage be rewarded with what is essentially a slave for the rest of their lives?


No they shouldn't, but that doesn't give you the right to break your vows as well. If someone's spouse will not make them happy, they are not fulfilling their vows. Which goes back to what I said. If only people raised their children properly, with strong values of selflessness, love, and generosity, this wouldn't be a problem.



Anyway, I apologize CW, I didn't intend on hijacking your thread. They asked questions, its their fault *points finger* >


----------



## I Don't Know

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



BioFury said:


> Its called the civil government man, she takes you to the judge, and you get whipped 40 times. Very bad day for you. You wouldn't be able to lift a stick for several weeks . Next question.



No, actually a lot of times nothing happens. My wife was abused by her first husband. She called the cops many times. He would just leave before they showed up and beat her a$$ more when he came back home. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe God wants his daughters to suffer through this kind of marriage. 

The last time, which caused her to finally leave, she was choked to the point of unconsciousness, so I'm pretty sure she'd be dead if she had stayed any longer. 

Sorry, it's a sore subject for me. I guess, basically because I'm hearing my marriage to my wife is invalid and in God's eyes she's still married to her first.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



I Don't Know said:


> No, actually a lot of times nothing happens. My wife was abused by her first husband. She called the cops many times. He would just leave before they showed up and beat her a$$ more when he came back home. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe God wants his daughters to suffer through this kind of marriage.
> 
> The last time, which caused her to finally leave, she was choked to the point of unconsciousness, so I'm pretty sure she'd be dead if she had stayed any longer.
> 
> Sorry, it's a sore subject for me. I guess, basically because I'm hearing my marriage to my wife is invalid and in God's eyes she's still married to her first.


Ok, I'd like for this to be the last back and forth about this on CW's thread. If you guys want to create one for this discussion, I will happily chime in.

Nothing happens because our society refuses God's perfect justice in favor of our own. So yes, if you want to support our flawed justice system, your going to get flawed justice. Which is not a fault of God's, or a flaw in biblical law. Rejection of God results in all kinds of wonderful issues to deal with. 

If God's justice was in force, she could be granted separation from the man if she desired. She could require that he take care of her until she is completely healed, or have him whipped as the judge shall determine. Or perhaps even all of the above.

_Ex 21:18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed: 19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.

De 25:2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number._


----------



## Tango in Triple Time

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



BioFury said:


> ..... Rejection of God results in all kinds of wonderful issues to deal with.....


And accepting God and his ways results in all kinds of wonderful issues to deal with. I'll just save 10% and take my chances.


----------



## PieceOfSky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Some of us don't give up as quickly as others.


Sometimes that works well for us. Sometimes that works against us and the things we love (or would love) most of all.

It's been awhile since I have visited your thread, and I've not caught up on the status of things. So, I have no opinion on whether you hanging in there is a good thing or not, and, truth be told, I doubt if I could form one strongly enough to feel justified in advocating it in this particular case. But, I will say this...

Not giving up isn't inherently a virtue. It all depends. If you are hanging in there, do so as fully aware of the costs as possible. And, the costs are very hard to see, and darn near impossible to feel. 

I'll add a warning -- in case your brain is wired like mine:

We all have our biases, tendencies, default behaviors, or whatever you want to call it. My set includes trying to understand and solve problems that I should have set down and walked away from, either unaware or indifferent to the toll it takes on me, or somehow feeling like I should be willing to pay the price even if exorbitant. 

I recall my mother praising my "stick-too-it-ivenes" when I told her of the completion of an after-hours business venture I had worked on for two years with a colleague and friend. Little did my mother know what a sacrifice of my time that turned out to be. Little did I know at the time, either.

As you look inward, it might be worth trying to understand why you hang in there longer than you think others might in similar circumstances. Towards that end, this book might be helpful:

Necessary Endings: The Employees, Businesses, and Relationships that All of Us Have to Give Up in Oder to Move Forward

All the best.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



BioFury said:


> Some people take the oaths they make to God seriously


I'm not in the slightest about jumping ship as soon as things get tough, but we're talking about *2 years* of cw working on her marriage with very little to no change. He has no lustful feelings for her, doesn't desire her or sex. He's completely happy to be sexless, only having sex to somewhat keep the peace. Two years is a lot of time to be spent on a failing marriage, especially at her age. 

CW, do you want kids? If you are planning to have children and have to start over after divorce, you don't want to wait too long where you may have decreased fertility. It's one of the reasons why I asked if you have a mental timeline for when you'll say enough is enough. 

Since it has been 2 years of this issue, have the changes you've seen been big enough? Are there just moments of change and then back to the status quo or is there actual continued progress?


----------



## Holland

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



BioFury said:


> I did just answer the question. Spousal violence is met with civil punishment, but I'll write a more detailed response if you guys so desire. I know most of you guys think of divorce as the solution to most serious marital problems. But thats simply not a biblical viewpoint. And they aren't my values, I am merely reflecting God's values.
> ............................


Spousal violence is as much a moral issue as infidelity is, why does this so called god make a distinction? No wonder so many people stay and suffer abuse in marriage, they are trapped by religion, god should be ashamed.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anonymous07 said:


> I'm not in the slightest about jumping ship as soon as things get tough, but we're talking about *2 years* of cw working on her marriage with very little to no change. He has no lustful feelings for her, doesn't desire her or sex. He's completely happy to be sexless, only having sex to somewhat keep the peace. Two years is a lot of time to be spent on a failing marriage, especially at her age.
> 
> CW, do you want kids? If you are planning to have children and have to start over after divorce, you don't want to wait too long where you may have decreased fertility. It's one of the reasons why I asked if you have a mental timeline for when you'll say enough is enough.
> 
> Since it has been 2 years of this issue, have the changes you've seen been big enough? Are there just moments of change and then back to the status quo or is there actual continued progress?


I wasn't aware marriage vows had expiration dates on them. Pretty sure they're incumbent until death. Kinda like they said when they made them...

I'm not saying I don't feel for CW, I do. Her husband is selfish, and a terrible fit for marriage. But as great as it would be if we didn't have to do anything hard or painful in our lives, thats just not reality.


----------



## EleGirl

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Holland said:


> Spousal violence is as much a moral issue as infidelity is, why does this so called god make a distinction? No wonder so many people stay and suffer abuse in marriage, they are trapped by religion, god should be ashamed.


The idea that divorce is not allowed for anything but sexual infidelity is just one interpretation of the Bible. 

I'm with on this. There is no way that a loving God would want people to live in misery. 

It is not God who should be ashamed. It's the people who use legalistic rules to interpret. I do believe that it was Jesus who tore up a temple to protest those who were using religion as an excuse to be legalistic.

Using religion on TAM to lecture and shame posters is not a good idea. This is not a place for religious argument.


----------



## Livvie

Bugged said:


> TheCuriousWife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy as a Clam brings me to my next point.
> 
> The sex counselor is slowly digging through our issues, and I think is starting to see the totality of our situation. This last session we talked about how he won't have sex with me on my period. We also discussed that he refuses to acknowledge or use my vibrator, and that he "forbade" me to buy one.
> 
> She was a bit shell shocked, and basically told him to put his big boy panties on and get over it.
> 
> She asked him up front why he won't have period sex, or use the vibrator, and he used his normal lame excuses. But she didn't accept them. Then she asked him if he would be willing to _try_ and he said yes. Which I then called bologna on.
> 
> 
> 
> look CW I feel for you i really do...but your husband is not that sexual.Period. the reason could be X(LD/he's not that much into you/latently gay/other)
> You don't respect his boundaries..what if YOU did not want to have sex during your period and he kept nagging you about it, together with your cousellor?
> Some people are not into toys...nail them to the cross for that!!!
> All I see in this thread towards your husband is *blame, blame,blame*.
> He's not as sexual as you..he won't likely change. *You can't turn him into the version of him that you would like to have married*.. no matter how many hours you spend in therapy...
> I think you have to make a tough decision...YOU put your big girl panties on and accept reality.
> You' ve been very patient...so IMO has your husband...
Click to expand...

Stating the truth about this man's behavior isn't "blame blame blame." That's YOUR perception. The truth is, he isn't providing a full, intimate, mutual sex life to his wife. A full, intimate, mutual sex life is a REASONABLE expectation and the lack of it is putting their marriage in jeopardy...that's why the counselling. I find your post negative and slamming to both CW and the people who have been trying to help.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'd frame this differently. 

Why is he trying this hard? 

Because IMO - he IS trying - despite the face that he is not by nature a sexual person. 

Is he doing to to try and make CW happier? 
OR
Is he doing it because he's afraid she might leave him otherwise?

The reason this matters so very much is simple. If his motivations are her happiness, they are likely sustainable. 

If instead, they are to avoid divorce, the arrival of children and the increased marital stability they create, will totally tank his efforts. 

My viewpoint hasn't changed. CW can tolerate the status quo because of all the good stuff. But she won't be able to tolerate the post baby sexual crash that I think is a near certainty. 



[/B]


Bugged said:


> There are always two sides to every story..I'm sorry for her..but when people start blaming him too much, she starts to defend him. WHY?He's always depicted like a selfish ass or a moron (someone who ahs to put on his big boy panties...him and his _lame _excuses, he's _whining _about ED)...bah!!
> We're talking about a man in his 20s who was given viagra pills because he struggles with ED..I think that's due to all the pressure he's under...
> He's looking forward to her period so he doens't have to have sex with wife...how absurd is that?
> Do you think a counsellor can _talk _him into growing a higher libido?
> 
> i'm really sorry for her...but he's what he is and unlikely to change into what SHE wants him to be.
> I'm sorry if what I say might hurt someone, it's not my intention.
> I've been lurking this thread for months...time to accept reality IMO...i don't think this is a good path...don't think it can last.
> Either their feelings for each other are stronger than their sexual mismatch or they're not and they better part ways.
> 
> :frown2:


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Oh good, the god talk has ended! Because of course there is only one religious view point that could possibly be considered, I suggest the God talk move to the appropriate thread, which isnt this one!

Bugged makes a good point, the same point Faithful wife has been mKing since the beginning. He is the way he is. No value can be placed on his sexuality or lack thereof. He is very low sex drive.

Well I disagree, I'm sorry but I do. I don't think a lack of sex drive is normal nor should be considered normal. I don't think human beings could have evolved with such a tenuous grip on sex drive as a normal trait. If this very low sex drive, evolutionarily speaking, was a normal variant it would have become an extremely rare condition because without the drive to have sex we have no drive to procreate and those not procreating are taking their genes out of the pool.

But the point Bugged and Faithfulwife and MEM and several others have made is that Mr. CW is not at all likely to ever be any different than he is now. He is the way he is.

Sorry CW.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Oh good, the god talk has ended! Because of course there is only one religious view point that could possibly be considered, I suggest the God talk move to the appropriate thread, which isnt this one!
> 
> Bugged makes a good point, the same point Faithful wife has been mKing since the beginning. He is the way he is. No value can be placed on his sexuality or lack thereof. He is very low sex drive.
> 
> Well I disagree, I'm sorry but I do. I don't think a lack of sex drive is normal nor should be considered normal. I don't think human beings could have evolved with such a tenuous grip on sex drive as a normal trait. If this very low sex drive, evolutionarily speaking, was a normal variant it would have become an extremely rare condition because without the drive to have sex we have no drive to procreate and those not procreating are taking their genes out of the pool.
> 
> You don't need to have a high sex drive to procreate. All you need is a one time act during ovulation and that's it, for those genes to somehow stay in the gene pool. A couple who somehow has sex twice a year can get pregnant and pass on those genes. I do think it's "normal" for some people to just be low drive. I know a woman who just does not have a sex drive and never has. We're completely opposite, but she's still normal. Nothing medically wrong with her, not religious, or anything else. She's just not a sexual person.
> 
> But the point Bugged and Faithfulwife and MEM and several others have made is that Mr. CW is not at all likely to ever be any different than he is now. He is the way he is.
> 
> Sorry CW.


The rest I agree with. This is who he is and I don't think there is anything to be done to change him. Sadly, he's just not into sex like you are CW.


----------



## MEM2020

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Honestly - this is C2 under duress. 

BTW - I don't blame C2 for:
- Being low drive
- Wanting to stay with CW, because he loves her
- Being afraid of testosterone and Viagra 

I don't blame him for anything. He's actually been remarkably honest for a LD fellow. And he's frequently gotten hammered for that honesty because it is painful for CW. 

I feel sad for both of them. More sad for CW though. 







Anon Pink said:


> Oh good, the god talk has ended! Because of course there is only one religious view point that could possibly be considered, I suggest the God talk move to the appropriate thread, which isnt this one!
> 
> Bugged makes a good point, the same point Faithful wife has been mKing since the beginning. He is the way he is. No value can be placed on his sexuality or lack thereof. He is very low sex drive.
> 
> Well I disagree, I'm sorry but I do. I don't think a lack of sex drive is normal nor should be considered normal. I don't think human beings could have evolved with such a tenuous grip on sex drive as a normal trait. If this very low sex drive, evolutionarily speaking, was a normal variant it would have become an extremely rare condition because without the drive to have sex we have no drive to procreate and those not procreating are taking their genes out of the pool.
> 
> But the point Bugged and Faithfulwife and MEM and several others have made is that Mr. CW is not at all likely to ever be any different than he is now. He is the way he is.
> 
> Sorry CW.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> Honestly - this is C2 under duress.
> 
> BTW - I don't blame C2 for:
> - Being low drive
> - Wanting to stay with CW, because he loves her
> - Being afraid of testosterone and Viagra
> 
> I don't blame him for anything. He's actually been remarkably honest for a LD fellow. And he's frequently gotten hammered for that honesty because it is painful for CW.
> 
> I feel sad for both of them. More sad for CW though.


There is nothing wrong with either of them. 

They are just not compatible at all in the sex department. It's sad.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



MEM11363 said:


> I'd frame this differently.
> 
> Why is he trying this hard?
> 
> Because IMO - he IS trying - despite the face that he is not by nature a sexual person.
> 
> Is he doing to to try and make CW happier?
> OR
> Is he doing it because he's afraid she might leave him otherwise?
> 
> The reason this matters so very much is simple. If his motivations are her happiness, they are likely sustainable. ]


Yes that makes all the difference. We've discussed that very thing more than once around here.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Well I disagree, I'm sorry but I do. *I don't think a lack of sex drive is normal nor should be considered normal. I don't think human beings could have evolved with such a tenuous grip on sex drive as a normal trait.*


Sorry Anon, but have you ever heard of a bell curve? It's real, and we're all on it somewhere. CW's husband, unfortunately, is on the low end of that curve.

Yes, some people really have incredibly low sex drives. Question is... do you want to be married to one of them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

What is yet to be determined is how much of TheCuriousHusbands lack of drive is physiological and how much is psychological. I'm not 100% convinced one way or the other yet. She's reported he needs every other day to recharge at least and her period week off, yet she's also reported him initiating 3 days in a row recently. If he has psychological limitations like performance anxiety, upbringing issues, or just generally lazy and unsupportive sexually he may have lots of room for sustained improvement. Being resistive of Viagra, not wanting her to have toys etc, supports the idea he's got some psyche issues to work through yet. On the plus side, they are still young and working on that. There has been improvement since the beginning of her journey and they just started counseling this year. She's been okay with the 2-3 times a week compromise so far, even if there has been bumps in the road.

If limitations are physical, that will be a much longer road for them both. My physical drive is still good at 1-4 times a day, but it's probably half of what it was in my 20s. I'm hoping that means in my 60s It'll still be a daily drive hah. If his physical limitation is 2-3 times a week max in his 20's, that doesn't bode well for the future without pharma help.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

:iagree:

With everything 4 just said...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We tend to focus on TheCuriousHusband here, but we can't forget the other half of the equation, CW. It takes two to be in a sexless marriage (which hers currently isn't lest we forget). Sure, it typically starts with a higher drive partner and a lower drive partner but the higher drive partner has to own their part of the issue. She's still learning how her actions, reactions, and inactions have contributed to his delinquency in the bedroom.

He doesn't have to end up being Superman in bed to make a happy marriage for her. Clark Kent could still learn the skills to keep her toes curled.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> Sorry Anon, but have you ever heard of a bell curve? It's real, and we're all on it somewhere. CW's husband, unfortunately, is on the low end of that curve.
> 
> Yes, some people really have incredibly low sex drives. Question is... do you want to be married to one of them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The existence of the bell curve proves that very low sex drive is normal? Because some people have a very low sex drive means it's normal?


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> The existence of the bell curve proves that very low sex drive is normal? Because some people have a very low sex drive means it's normal?



The curve is simply a data collection. Society and culture determine what's normal. There's a lower level limit of zero and a max limit but anything in between is a possibility. Whether it's "normal" is a different story.


----------



## Holdingontoit

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes, normal as in frequently encountered in the world. High drive is normal. Low drive is normal. Mismatch is normal. All are frequently encountered.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



john117 said:


> The curve is simply a data collection. Society and culture determine what's normal. There's a lower level limit of zero and a max limit but anything in between is a possibility. Whether it's "normal" is a different story.


My point exactly.


----------



## john117

*LD Husband Journal*

I still feel there's a lot of generational LD. I mean, my older daughter's significant other of 5 years. They're faced with another two years Long Distance relationship as she's headed to grad school ten hours away. Yet there's little drama from each side. Sure, he'll fly in once a month or two or she will come here but it's amazing how Gen X sees relationships. 

His parents had an intercontinental long distance relationship for years and now have an equally intercontinental marriage as he lives in the UAE. So he's used to that. I hope 

Realistically speaking they'll be away from each other for another 5-6 years. But they're ok with it.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> What is yet to be determined is how much of TheCuriousHusbands lack of drive is physiological and how much is psychological. I'm not 100% convinced one way or the other yet. She's reported he needs every other day to recharge at least and her period week off, yet she's also reported him initiating 3 days in a row recently. If he has psychological limitations like performance anxiety, upbringing issues, or just generally lazy and unsupportive sexually he may have lots of room for sustained improvement. Being resistive of Viagra, not wanting her to have toys etc, supports the idea he's got some psyche issues to work through yet. On the plus side, they are still young and working on that. There has been improvement since the beginning of her journey and they just started counseling this year. She's been okay with the 2-3 times a week compromise so far, even if there has been bumps in the road.
> 
> If limitations are physical, that will be a much longer road for them both. My physical drive is still good at 1-4 times a day, but it's probably half of what it was in my 20s. I'm hoping that means in my 60s It'll still be a daily drive hah. If his physical limitation is 2-3 times a week max in his 20's, that doesn't bode well for the future without pharma help.


Sure he can make some strides to get better for her, but how long will it take? another 2 years, 5 years, 10 years? How long does she want to give it to figure out what she is happy with and what she can't deal with long term? 



Anon Pink said:


> The existence of the bell curve proves that very low sex drive is normal? Because some people have a very low sex drive means it's normal?


Yes. Technically there is no such thing as "normal", as it's a personal bias. What you see as normal, someone else sees as abnormal. LD is normal, HD is normal, as is everything in between.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So how goes it Curious?


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curiousssssssssssss..............where are you??????????????????


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Think she posted a little while back about having a busy month or summer coming up, not even enough time for their sessions. Hope they are doing well!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Thanks for your concern. We are doing fine. 

We still have bad days every once in a while but that is to be expected in any sex life. Nothing interesting to report. 

I am busy, and also I just don't have much interest in TAM lately. 

Hope you guys are all having a great summer.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Glad to hear things are going reasonably well for your Curious. I hope you won't leave the board. Update us occasionally and let us know how you are doing.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We are in a meh time.

Our sex life isn't bad, but it's not great. We have sex, we get orgasms, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. I'm not sure how to fix blah. We are just stuck in a rut.

Tuesday stunk bad, Sex for the first time in a week. I'm in the mood, but we had fallen asleep and it's late. There was no build up before, so it's hard to get the motors going. He lays there quietly, I give him a little oral play. He's not responding, so after a while I stop. I sit up and look at him, he looks back at me. It's silent. After a few minutes of us both sitting there waiting on each other to start something, he says, "why do I always have to be the one to get things going? Why can't you do something?" I ask, "Do what? What would you like me to do?" He replies, "Do it." Like that is so informative. Really. So I give him oral while he lays there like a limp fish, and suddenly I'm the one is isn't doing anything. Maybe if he would respond to my advances, or encourage instead of criticize I would be more enthusiastic. By now I'm getting testy, so I roll over.

After a few more minutes he sighs and then starts touching my clit. Ouch. I ask him if we can please just kiss for a few minutes. We do, and he complains that I never french kiss him anymore. And we have sex in nearly complete silence, then go to sleep. Yippee. Not exactly the stuff of dreams.

I won't pin it on him only. Neither of us are good at taking the reigns. We are bad initiators, we are bad at building it up beforehand, and we are bad at being creative during sex. It's all very boring, lame, and routine. I really don't like being the dominate one, and I prefer to be led. The problem is, so does he. Add in the fact that we are both stubborn, and it's a bad combination.

He always complains that I lay there, that I don't do anything, etc. But I don't agree. I mean I'm not swinging from the chandelier, but I am always touching him when he is touching me. I will climb on top, I thrust, I kiss. But somehow that's not good enough. Of course he can't tell me what he wants me to do, and I'm not sexual enough to think of more on my own. And it's the same for me. I think he just lays there a lot of the time. Sex is awkward. Either we are really bad at it, or we are bad with each other. 

Our homework recently has been to give each other 15 minute massages every other day. We can't even do that. After 5 minutes we are getting bored. It's a chore, and so far we have done it once or twice in the last week, and only for 8-10 minutes. Yikes. That just goes to show how little we are affectionate to each other. 

Sigh. The chemistry is just fizzled out right now. I'm horny, but sex puts me out of the mood. I find myself getting more and more in a shell, and getting more and more defensive when he criticizes my sexuality. This is making things worse, because I want to do and try even less than before, which of course makes him think I never want to do anything, and that I just lay there.

I don't feel like my old self anymore. Sex has dropped on my radar. I frankly just don't really care anymore. I kind of feel like all the oomph has been taken out of my drive. Oh we can't have sex for a few days, oh well. 

How can things be so fine outside of the bedroom, but just not click right passionately? We are getting along better than ever, and do fine with anything that doesn't include sex. But we just can't seem to get it together in the bedroom. The counselor has asked what has changed, with the fact that we are getting along so well. We are both pretty happy. It's because I'm not a crazy horn dog anymore, so sex just isn't a big issue anymore.

This is a good thing, but also bad. Because I think my drive was what was holding us together. Before I had enough enthusiasm and drive for both of us. Even if it was lack luster, or we were sleepy or whatever I would still be excited, and I could fuel my own desire, and in turn his. Now I find myself thinking, "ugh, it's kind of late for sex" or "maybe tomorrow would be better." :/ Now I'm wanting him to put in the effort to romance and seduce me, because I'm just not feeling it. The problem is, he is still looking at me to romance and seduce him.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



> This is a good thing, but also bad. Because I think my drive was what was holding us together. Before I has enough enthusiasm and drive for both of us.


It's a bad thing and it is exactly what I was afraid would happen. A marriage can't sustain itself with one person fueling it and one person consuming the fuel. 

No woman could orgasm with such a lazy passionless self centered lover. 

I'm sorry you've reached this point CW.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Lesbian bed death


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> Lesbian bed death


LOL, I was thinking the same thing!

See how vital testosterone is?


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yep


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> It's a bad thing and it is exactly what I was afraid would happen. A marriage can't sustain itself with one person fueling it and one person consuming the fuel.
> 
> No woman could orgasm with such a lazy passionless self centered lover.
> 
> I'm sorry you've reached this point CW.


I can still orgasm most of the time. Even Tuesday I did. 

It still feels good, it just lacks any sort of chemistry.

I just feel turned off from sex right now. Some nights he might even being trying hard and doing everything right, but I still can't get my head into it. Too much baggage. 

I fear he doesn't have it in him for the tables to be turned, and he have to be the one tending to our sex life. He's never had to work for sex, and I don't think he even knows how to seduce, or "talk me into it" if I was really LD.

I think he is starting to get a taste of it now though. I haven't been jumping in the shower the moment he mentions sex. I don't wait for his beckon call. Recently he rejected me then changed his mind later after the massages. I turned him down. 


Of course if I'm not feeling it he doesn't try harder, or seduce me, or try to warm me up. He just pouts, or berates me. Like that really puts me in the mood. 

Seriously I get sick when I read stories on here of men talking about the steps they go through throughout the day to put their spouse in the mood. I would love to be shown that much devotion and attention. I want to be wooed dang it. 


Whatever /end rant. 

Have a fun weekend planned, so won't let crappy sex drag me down.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> LOL, I was thinking the same thing!
> 
> See how vital testosterone is?


:scratchhead:

I don't get it? lol


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> I don't get it? lol


Lesbian bed death is common, two women in a long term relationship often wind up with hardly any frequency of sex after a few years. 

You are a women, your husband is very feminized.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> Lesbian bed death is common, two women in a long term relationship often wind up with hardly any frequency of sex after a few years.
> 
> You are a women, your husband is very feminized.


Ah got it. Thanks. >

I'm a little slow sometimes.


----------



## Eagle3

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

_Of course if I'm not feeling it he doesn't try harder, or seduce me, or try to warm mOf course if I'm not feeling it he doesn't try harder, or seduce me, or try to warm me up. He just pouts, or berates me. Like that really puts me in the mood. e up. He just pouts, or berates me. Like that really puts me in the mood. _

Ugh sorry to see no progress CW for you but not surprised at the same time. The above should tell you all you need to know how your relationship is and what kind of guy he is.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Sigh. The chemistry is just fizzled out right now.
> 
> But we just can't seem to get it together in the bedroom.


I'm thinking along the lines of your counselor, "What's changed"? What was the difference compared to when you were last feeling like sex was good between you two? Was it because of this next quote?



> Because I think my drive was what was holding us together. Before I had enough enthusiasm and drive for both of us.


Has his enthusiasm (or lack thereof) been roughly the same all along, and the difference is because your enthusiasm waxes and wanes? If you are the only one showing enthusiasm it won't ever be enough.  Sex is a two person sport and you need to be on the same playing field.

Has he ever described his ideal sex life? What gets him going? Does he know you are not a mind reader?



> He lays there quietly, I give him a little oral play. He's not responding, so after a while I stop. I sit up and look at him, he looks back at me. It's silent. After a few minutes of us both sitting there waiting on each other to start something, he says, "why do I always have to be the one to get things going? Why can't you do something?"


You start off with some oral and he responds back with "why do I always have to be the one to get things going? Why can't you do something?" REALLY?  If he can't see that as an initiation I just don't know what to say about that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> I'm thinking along the lines of your counselor, "What's changed"? What was the difference compared to when you were last feeling like sex was good between you two? Was it because of this next quote?
> 
> Has his enthusiasm (or lack thereof) been roughly the same all along, and the difference is because your enthusiasm waxes and wanes? If you are the only one showing enthusiasm it won't ever be enough.  Sex is a two person sport and you need to be on the same playing field.
> 
> Has he ever described his ideal sex life? What gets him going? Does he know you are not a mind reader?
> 
> You start off with some oral and he responds back with "why do I always have to be the one to get things going? Why can't you do something?" REALLY?  If he can't see that as an initiation I just don't know what to say about that.


He does have times when he is more into it. But here lately, I'm just not feeling real sexual. Despite if he is into it or not.

If I ask him about ideal, he says he wants me to do something and not just lay there. But he won't tell me what he would like me to do. And I don't think I "just lay there" so I really have no idea what he wants from me.

I agree. WTH. Oral is too subtle?

Anyway, life has been hectic and stressful. The last great sex we had was on our camping vacation, so we decided to go camping last night to relax.

Sex started out good, then he finished accidentally like 5-10 minutes in. He was very sorry, and he continued to try to get me there for a long time. But the moment was lost, and I just couldn't. 

Just not feeling very connected, and I will admit I'm kind of short fused and snappy right now. Work is nuts. I've been acting cranky due to stress, and I feel bad about it. He was being clingy today, probably because he feels bad about last night, and I felt really smothered and annoyed.  Needing my space.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So is his expectation basically for you to do all the work to get him off? Just straight up laziness? Go back and reread the first page or two of your posts and compare where you are today versus then. Seems like a lot of similarities. He doesn't sound like he's learning to be a pleaser in bed at all yet.

If I remember correctly, he got lots of oral back in the old days? Or maybe I'm remembering someone else's posts? If so, he needs to learn how to become an active lover and not a passive one. To me, there is a big mental difference between learning to please a woman and laying back and receiving hjs/bjs. I'm the other way around, I'm not used to being a passive receiver as it's kind of mentally awkward for me because it wasn't common in my marriage to receive. It's probably also why you see posts about men having trouble orgasming from bjs from time to time. It is different to just lay back and passively enjoy versus having to do the work of actively pleasing your partner, watching/listening to her responses to your actions, being creative, making adjustments, building to her O's, all the while enjoying the action while holding back yourself till the right time.

If I hadn't seen my ex turn it around 180 degrees from LD to everyday sex I would probably tell you to throw this dead fish back in the ocean, but there may still be hope out there. I'm not sure what he needs to change though. Cut him off from passive sex?


----------



## Eastcoasting

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> So is his expectation basically for you to do all the work to get him off? Just straight up laziness? Go back and reread the first page or two of your posts and compare where you are today versus then. Seems like a lot of similarities. He doesn't sound like he's learning to be a pleaser in bed at all yet.


THIS! 

Granted, I have not this entire thread but skimmed enough to get an idea on what is going on. 

It sounds like CW and her hubby make better friends than lovers. If it should come down to that than so be it. I think both of you will be much much happier in the long run. This back and forth will not sustain itself and I believe Anon echoed the same thing. 

CW, it sounds like you are waaaaay too young to lose your sexual drive!


----------



## Silly_panda

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hi CW, 

I'm very much in the same position as you. I'm HD and my husband is LD. It's so nice to read some of your experiences and understand that I'm not the only one dealing with this. Thanks for sharing in this forum. It's not easy talking about it with friends and family. They just seem to not understand. Last time I opened up to a friend about it, she told me to go out and do more things to distract myself from the problem. Basically ignore the problem and pretend to me happy. 

I haven't caught up with the entire thread so sorry if this has already been covered previously...have you tried scheduling sex and designating an initiator? I know it sounds so unromantic! But knowing what's expected from each other may be a good step towards spontaneous sex in the future and meanwhile avoid frustrations, fights, and disappointments. I know it sounds contradictory and crazy but at this point I'm willing to try anything and hope I'll hit something that works for us. I'm starting it with my husband this week. It would be a good way to fulfill your need for him to initiate and romance more and make you feel wanted.


----------



## LostinNE

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Silly_panda said:


> Hi CW,
> 
> I'm very much in the same position as you. I'm HD and my husband is LD. It's so nice to read some of your experiences and understand that I'm not the only one dealing with this. Thanks for sharing in this forum. It's not easy talking about it with friends and family. They just seem to not understand. Last time I opened up to a friend about it, she told me to go out and do more things to distract myself from the problem. Basically ignore the problem and pretend to me happy.
> 
> I haven't caught up with the entire thread so sorry if this has already been covered previously...have you tried scheduling sex and designating an initiator? I know it sounds so unromantic! But knowing what's expected from each other may be a good step towards spontaneous sex in the future and meanwhile avoid frustrations, fights, and disappointments. I know it sounds contradictory and crazy but at this point I'm willing to try anything and hope I'll hit something that works for us. I'm starting it with my husband this week. It would be a good way to fulfill your need for him to initiate and romance more and make you feel wanted.


Me and my wife recently began scheduling it twice/week. We've tried in the past before and she has mentioned that it 'gets her thinking about it during the day'. My wife has trouble 'deviating from schedules' or 'what in her mind will be happening in a given day'. Just started last week, so we'll see how it goes. 

Actually yesterday was our day and we didn't get around to it cause I could tell she was tired. I was really disappointed about it since yesterday so she actually surprised me today by initiating a little bit which was nice. 

Also yesterday I was supposed to make dinner for her and the kids. When the time came, I was really tired and not in the mood to make dinner. I mentioned it and I could see the disappointment in her face. SO, I immediately got up and made a great lasagna in 1 hour. I mentioned how ' I wasn't in the mood for something but I got up and made it happen cause I saw you were disappointed'. I think it got her thinkin hahaha


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey all.

Things are going pretty good. Recently we had an exercise with the counselor where we went over our progress and goals. On a scale of 1 - 10 of progress with our 3 main goals we are at.

7 ED
7.5 Enjoyable Sex Life
6.5 Positive Communication and Flirtation

We are to the point where I'm not sure how much farther the counselor can take us. Mostly our sex just still lacks that spark, which no amount of talking will improve. But I think I'm to a point where I am okay where we are. (Of course that may change when I'm having a bad day. lol)

We have one more appointment set up, and then we'll see if we decide to continue or take a break for a while. 

Have a bed and breakfast stay booked for our anniversary coming up. Might find something fun to spice things up.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Hey all.
> 
> Things are going pretty good. Recently we had an exercise with the counselor where we went over our progress and goals. On a scale of 1 - 10 of progress with our 3 main goals we are at.
> 
> 7 ED
> 7.5 Enjoyable Sex Life
> 6.5 Positive Communication and Flirtation
> 
> We are to the point where I'm not sure how much farther the counselor can take us. Mostly our sex just still lacks that spark, which no amount of talking will improve. But I think I'm to a point where I am okay where we are. (Of course that may change when I'm having a bad day. lol)
> 
> We have one more appointment set up, and then we'll see if we decide to continue or take a break for a while.
> 
> Have a bed and breakfast stay booked for our anniversary coming up. Might find something fun to spice things up.


Tease him, excite him, arouse him, then walk away. Do it several times and just when its time to have sex, pick a pillow fight and try to beat the crap out of him. If you can't find passion at that point, it will never ever happen.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Tease him, excite him, arouse him, then walk away. Do it several times and just when its time to have sex, pick a pillow fight and try to beat the crap out of him. If you can't find passion at that point, it will never ever happen.


That's the problem. I don't feel confident in my "arousabilty."

I can literately feel him up under clothes and walk around without a shirt on, and he may not even look up from whatever he is doing.

He will sometimes whistle, or maybe say, "nice outfit" or something along those lines. But normally that's about as far as it would go. Not much real lust or arousal. 

He is trying though. He's working at it, and trying to be more expressive. Some days are better than others.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

As a side note I'm not sure if I even know how to excite or tease a man. :/ Sometimes I doubt that I am even sexy at all. 

It's a far cry from ravenous lust monsters, society makes men out to be. It's NOT that easy.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Edited to add: your man requires direct stimulation. His sexual energy is that of a much older man. Get his mind engaged on sex.

Get sexy'ed up. Stand in front of him. Remove anything he is looking at if it isn't you. Once he sees you, slowly kneel between his legs while smiling at him. Slowly run you hand up his legs getting close to his groin but not touching his package. Talk about whatever while your doing this. Just keep slowly, even absently, running your hands up and down his legs and hips. If he widens his legs at all that's your cue to start slowly, lightly, running your hands over his package. Keep talking and smiling. Once you notice some changes, get up and walk away.

Sitting next to him somewhere semi public, cross your legs and run you foot up and down his leg and you place your hand in his thigh. Lean in and whisper but don't kiss. Lean in and tickle his ear. Keep doing this until he tries to lean into you, then walk away.

Sitting across from him, same as above except make your intentions pretty obvious to him. Smile, wink and giggle. If he leans back or widens his legs you have aroused him. Since you're in public, there is nothing further you can do so keep doing it and keep giggling.

Come on Curious, this you can do. You don't need a bunch of confidence, you just need a sense of fun.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Normally I'm with you Anon, but if he's not responding to her walking around topless or feeling him up then I don't think it's her half of the equation that needs to try harder. If you mean he has the sexual energy of an "older man" I hope you meant 70 year old man because I know you're not talking about us in our 40's. Just sayin'. 

Did he ever try the Viagra CW? If so were there any results? I'm wondering if the lack of spark is mental or physical?


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Edited to add: your man requires direct stimulation. His sexual energy is that of a much older man. Get his mind engaged on sex.
> 
> Get sexy'ed up. Stand in front of him. Remove anything he is looking at if it isn't you. Once he sees you, slowly kneel between his legs while smiling at him. Slowly run you hand up his legs getting close to his groin but not touching his package. Talk about whatever while your doing this. Just keep slowly, even absently, running your hands up and down his legs and hips. If he widens his legs at all that's your cue to start slowly, lightly, running your hands over his package. Keep talking and smiling. Once you notice some changes, get up and walk away.
> 
> Sitting next to him somewhere semi public, cross your legs and run you foot up and down his leg and you place your hand in his thigh. Lean in and whisper but don't kiss. Lean in and tickle his ear. Keep doing this until he tries to lean into you, then walk away.
> 
> Sitting across from him, same as above except make your intentions pretty obvious to him. Smile, wink and giggle. If he leans back or widens his legs you have aroused him. Since you're in public, there is nothing further you can do so keep doing it and keep giggling.
> 
> Come on Curious, this you can do. You don't need a bunch of confidence, you just need a sense of fun.


Eh, hot! 

Excuse me while I find some alone time...


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



4x4 said:


> Normally I'm with you Anon, but if he's not responding to her walking around topless or feeling him up then I don't think it's her half of the equation that needs to try harder. If you mean he has the sexual energy of an "older man" I hope you meant 70 year old man because I know you're not talking about us in our 40's. Just sayin'.
> 
> Did he ever try the Viagra CW? If so were there any results? I'm wondering if the lack of spark is mental or physical?


LOL of course I was talking about a man in his LATE 70's and in poor health!

No, my post was about instructing in tease and denial, changing the sexual frame from which they have been operating. They're going away and that is the time to put on a new hat and try something out of the ordinary.

Wrt passion...it has to start somewhere. Women have been lead to believe that the man always brings the passion and that's just not true. Neither of them have sexual experience so they're operating with myth and assumptions about passion. 

Curious can bring it, she can foster it, and she can ramp it up. I think her man is a sexual dud so if she wants passion, she's going to have to bring it. It's possible once he gets a taste for it he might figure out how to bring it. 

I think ramped up passion can be brought by either but it's best when brought by both!


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> As a side note I'm not sure if I even know how to excite or tease a man. :/ *Sometimes I doubt that I am even sexy at all.
> *
> It's a far cry from ravenous lust monsters, society makes men out to be. It's NOT that easy.


Fiddle fuddle. What is sexy to me is when a woman goes after me and is aggressive / teasing about it. Take AP's advice and give him some teasing and be aggressive. Then you will be hotter than a super model to him.

I agree with AP. Go for it Curious, go tease him, stay focused on him, watch his reactions and play into it.


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I get what you're saying Pink. I'm still wondering if it's mental or physical. I'm not sure how far she'll get trying to turn up the heat when the pilot light isn't even lit. Worse yet she could be left hurt more be the lack of response. I just can't see how a 20something male wouldn't respond physically to being groped, but that view may be distorted by my own horny rose colored glasses.

I am glad you're not entirely dissatisfied though CW. It could be a lot worse.


----------



## Livvie

Everyone is giving great suggestions, but I agree, is not her half of the equation that is lacking.

It takes two to have passion, and it takes male energy and female energy (in a hetero rela.) working together. I don't see evidence of him bringing much make energy to the table for CW's female energy to naturally interact with...


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

@4x4, yes that is a risk she will have to take. But I think we can all agree that if she doesn't take this risk she has no chance of him figuring it out all by himself. The boy is a sexual dud and needs a tutor in the worst way, and no I am not volunteering!
@Livvie, I agree on the sexual energy being a yin/yang kind of symbiosis. But someone's gotta start it and we know it's not going to be Mr Curious.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> Curious,
> 
> Just for a reference. This sounds like my 50-something husband. Who we recently found out has high blood pressure, high cholesterol and low testosterone.


While this is bad news it's also good news right? It's good because now your H is going to get treatment, including Ttherapy, right? So things will get better right? Your H must also have ED if he's got all of that going on. Do you think he is denying sex to cover for his ED?


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> When we have sex, there's no ED. He just hardly ever feels like having sex.
> 
> Don't know about Ttherapy. He's recently gone on three different prescriptions for the other issues.
> 
> If he could lose a lot of weight, and build muscle; I'd rather have him do that than take hormones. Ttherapy does have risks.
> 
> It is good in that I can believe it when he says that it's not about me, or how he feels about me. That's what was scaring me.



I can image. But I really believe women are so hard on themselves and it's just no necessary.

Weight loss... Yeah so good luck with that one. What does he want to do? What does his doc recommend?


----------



## 4x4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> The boy is a sexual dud and needs a tutor in the worst way, and no I am not volunteering!


 :rofl:


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



intheory said:


> When we have sex, there's no ED. He just hardly ever feels like having sex.
> 
> Don't know about Ttherapy. He's recently gone on three different prescriptions for the other issues.
> 
> If he could lose a lot of weight, and build muscle; I'd rather have him do that than take hormones. Ttherapy does have risks.
> 
> It is good in that I can believe it when he says that it's not about me, or how he feels about me. That's what was scaring me.


I agree, not knowing and thinking it might be me was the worst thing. Good luck on your journey.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Kind of disappointed. I posted a big write up a few days ago and it seems to have vanished... Don't feel like rewriting.

So in short. Had a great anniversary trip.

Husband is now trying **** rings, and the other day he even initiated using my vibrator on me for the first time. He only used it for a minute though. I think he was intimidated by the noise and size. So we will probably being purchasing a bullet in the future and trying again. 

Overall things are going well.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have been hoping you would update us Curious! So glad to hear things are improving. Are you still seeing the counselor? Has your husband been more considerate of _your_ needs? Is he still suffering from ED?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We are done with the counselor for now. We felt there was enough talking, and we need more doing if we wanted more progress.

He is being more considerate. He has been flirting, dirty talking, and showing affection a lot more. 

His friend stayed the weekend, and he still watched a movie and snuggled with me in the evening while his friend entertained himself. 

I'd say that shows a lot, considering when we were first married that I was practically ignored when his friends came over, and he didn't even sleep in the same room with me.

I've started a 2nd job and I'm pretty exhausted. Husband actually WASHED THE DISHES by himself, while his friend was here. It had been a long week for me, and nearly every dish was dirty. He is mildly allergic to dish soap, and never washes them. So I was quite surprised and well pleased.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We are done with the counselor for now. We felt there was enough talking, and we need more doing if we wanted more progress.
> 
> He is being more considerate. He has been flirting, dirty talking, and showing affection a lot more.
> 
> His friend stayed the weekend, and he still watched a movie and snuggled with me in the evening while his friend entertained himself.
> 
> I'd say that shows a lot, considering when we were first married that I was practically ignored when his friends came over, and he didn't even sleep in the same room with me.
> 
> I've started a 2nd job and I'm pretty exhausted. Husband actually WASHED THE DISHES by himself, while his friend was here. It had been a long week for me, and nearly every dish was dirty.* He is mildly allergic to dish soap, and never washes them. So I was quite surprised and well pleased.*


*
*

Get him a pair of rubber gloves to us so he can help you more with the dishes!! LOL!


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Awesome update!


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> [/B]
> 
> Get him a pair of rubber gloves to us so he can help you more with the dishes!! LOL!


And if given the right way cn show you appreciate what he did for you but are worried he will suffer, making him feel loved.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hopefully, Curious, your husband is finally maturing. I hope the improvements to your sex life continue as well as your overall marriage.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Great job Curious. You deserve an affectionate pat on the rear - I will let your H do that. But that is great progress.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

...more considerate...more flirty....more attentive....using a c0ck ring...using a vibrator during sex...

Sounds like a WIN!

Yeah Mr. Curious!

So how are you feeling about all these positive changes CW? Is the jury still out or are you feeling cautiously optimistic? Does it feel real to you or are you making the decisions to believe this is real?

I ask because sometimes the battle is so drawn out that by the time you get to the change part you have to force yourself to believe it's real.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He has washed dishes AGAIN since I last posted... What happened to my husband?

Anyway, I'm on a round of new medicine and it has made me feel absolutely horrible. It's about all I can do to even get out of bed. He has been very sweet, and has been rubbing my feet, and bringing me drinks.

Hopefully I will be up to some amorous activity tonight. I've been feeling too poorly lately. Only 4 more days until I am off the medicine. Praise the Lord. 

I am feeling cautiously optimistic, although I'm not letting myself get too carried away just yet. I know he is making a serious effort, time will tell if it's here to stay.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hope you feel much better Curious!! You are in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

More than a month later and I am STILL sick. Had to switch medicines and start over because it made me so sick. Had my period and then wasn't allowed to have sex with the 2nd medicine. After the medicine I caught a cold, which caused my lungs to flare up. Now I have a cold again. ARG. Never been sick this long.

I've had my period and a fever blister for the past week, so no sex or kissing. Not to mention the constant head ache, and sinus drainage. Sex has been squeezed in when possible the last month, but I've just not been feeling very up to it. Tonight we have a "date" set, but honestly I feel like crap, not sexy at all. I'm to the point of horny grouch, so I know I need a reset.

I've asked for a bullet vibrator for Christmas. We'll see what Santa brings me. 

Going on a short getaway this weekend. May be just what the doctor ordered.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Good to hear from you Curious! Hope you start feeling better and healing. Take care of yourself. Get as much rest as you can - and drink lots of liquids!


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> More than a month later and I am STILL sick. Had to switch medicines and start over because it made me so sick. Had my period and then wasn't allowed to have sex with the 2nd medicine. After the medicine I caught a cold, which caused my lungs to flare up. Now I have a cold again. ARG. Never been sick this long.
> 
> I've had my period and a fever blister for the past week, so no sex or kissing. Not to mention the constant head ache, and sinus drainage. Sex has been squeezed in when possible the last month, but I've just not been feeling very up to it. Tonight we have a "date" set, but honestly I feel like crap, not sexy at all. I'm to the point of horny grouch, so I know I need a reset.
> 
> I've asked for a bullet vibrator for Christmas. We'll see what Santa brings me.
> 
> Going on a short getaway this weekend. May be just what the doctor ordered.


Sorry to hear that you're sick.  I was sick for the whole month of May, so I know how sucky it can be with a never ending cold. It was from all the pent up stress over the several months before and I just could not get over the dang cold. I hope you feel better soon! 

I think the short getaway is perfect and can possibly help you get better. Enjoy that time away! Rest up and drink plenty of fluids.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yeah. I believe mine is stress induced as well. With the holidays, and I got a new job which is extremely stressful. Also had a lot of expenses come up these past two months, and money issues have been wearing on me. :/

I'll be okay. Going to try to enjoy the weekend away, and just relax. But first I have a ton of stuff to do today before we leave. lol.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hope you have a great break, you deserve it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well my sickness didn't get better. It got much worse. I got admitted to the hospital for severe pneumonia due to complications from my lung disease. I was there 6 days and they finally let me out because I wasn't making any progress. It's been another week and I'm still horribly sick. Husband has been so good to me, and has been taking excellent care of me since I'm basically on bed rest and can't stand up for more than a couple minutes. Not going to get fully better until I cough out my lung disease which can takes months. Yippee.  I'm also a bridesmaid in a wedding this weekend, and hoping I can make it through. 

Can't even remember the last time we had sex, it's been weeks. Husband is getting antsy, but honestly I feel so sick that it is the last thing on my mind. I'm constantly nauseous and in pain. 

He did get me a bullet for Christmas and we have used it a couple times. But not too successfully yet. The trip was also good.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

Hope you feel better soon. I am glad he is taking care of you though.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sending many thoughts and prayers your way Curious. Please keep us updated on your health as you feel like it. ((Hugs))


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hello Curious - Just checking in to let you know I am thinking of you and hoping and sending prayers your way that you are feeling better.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey guys!

Well I still haven't coughed anything out yet, but I'm feeling pretty good.

Husband and I are doing better than ever. Sexual dynamic has changed drastically. Sex is no longer "scheduled" or implied at certain times. We do it when we want. Both of us will initiate or say, "actually I'm a little tried tonight, how about tomorrow." No hurt feelings. Frequency is a bit down, but it's usually me who wants to wait. 

Husband has been much much more sexual and horny. He actually pursues me now. He has also started thinking about sex randomly during the day, and will text me that can't wait to get home. He said he NEVER used to get horny or think about sex when we weren't actively having it, so that's pretty big. Sometimes he can't keep his hands off me. 

I had a period for over a month due to medications, and he was even willing to have some period sex.

I've also loosened up a bit, and we do have sex occasionally without me showering. I've also done a little bit of stripe tease / dancing for him. 

Overall things are going well. Oddly enough I don't really think I'm as horny as I used to be, and I usually don't get into it until after we have started. But in the end we both enjoy it.

Thanks for checking up on me.


----------



## Fozzy

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Awesome update CW! What changed for your husband? Did he go on T therapy?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Fozzy said:


> Awesome update CW! What changed for your husband? Did he go on T therapy?



I honestly am not sure. We didn't really do anything different... :scratchhead:

We did not get to have sex for several weeks, and I think it kind of gave us a reboot. Our sex life was improving even before that though, so I'm sure that's not all of it.

Sex counselor did help, and opened up our communication a lot. 

Also I think since I've lost a bit of my drive and have chilled out that I'm no longer putting pressure on him to perform. He is having sex because he wants it, not because he feel obligated. He says it's no longer "chore sex" which does sting a little. But I'm glad it's better now.

I still really don't know why he didn't like sex in the first place. I realize I was a little sex crazy, but it was only because I will feeling starved. Not sure how we got into that mess to begin with. But I hope we don't go back.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

That is great, TCW!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Great to hear TCW! :smile2:


----------



## ConanHub

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hahaha! Great update!

Sorry you were so sick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hope4family

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I honestly am not sure. We didn't really do anything different... :scratchhead:
> 
> We did not get to have sex for several weeks, and I think it kind of gave us a reboot. Our sex life was improving even before that though, so I'm sure that's not all of it.
> 
> Sex counselor did help, and opened up our communication a lot.
> 
> Also I think since I've lost a bit of my drive and have chilled out that I'm no longer putting pressure on him to perform. He is having sex because he wants it, not because he feel obligated. He says it's no longer "chore sex" which does sting a little. But I'm glad it's better now.
> 
> I still really don't know why he didn't like sex in the first place. *I realize I was a little sex crazy, but it was only because I will feeling starved. Not sure how we got into that mess to begin with. But I hope we don't go back.*


Reminds me of the old saying that I am sure someone else said and for fun should be repeated. 

When sex is good. It isn't such a priority, things just move along and forward. 

When sex is bad/nonexistent. It feels like it's the entire relationship.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Great update CW!!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## larry.gray

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oddly enough I don't really think I'm as horny as I used to be, and I usually don't get into it until after we have started. But in the end we both enjoy it.


That is the hunger effect. When you're not getting enough to eat, all you think about is food. When you are eating enough, you don't think about it as often. 

You most likely have reached the floor of your natural drive.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, just checking in to see how you are doing. Hoping and praying your health has continued to improve.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I'm still sick, and it's affecting my sex life. 

I'm tired all the time. It's horrible of me, but when sex is mentioned I just think of how exhausting it is. It's not been a whole lot of fun lately. Any position where I am on bottom or where I'm not adequately sitting up causes horrible unsexy coughing fits. If I go on top or do doggie, it causes a lot of severe pain in my wrists from my carpal tunnel. Kissing makes me breathless. 

I know husband is frustrated when I'm constantly coughing, stopping the kisses, etc. Sometimes I believe he thinks I'm faking, although he won't say it. So I try to grit my teeth and power through it. But it efficiently kills all pleasure and sexiness for me. To top it off I recently got over a painful bladder infection. Nothing ends the mood quicker than dry heaving and lots of pain. 

Over all I'm just pooped all the time. A nice snuggle and a nap sounds much more appealing than sex right now. I feel like a lazy lover, which of course makes me feel guilty. Blah. Honestly I just don't want to get out of bed in the morning, and I'm slacking at work and house chores. I know I've been whining a lot recently. But I'm tired of always being sick, and exhausted. I just don't feel good.

Yes I've been to the doctor. Same answer I always get. Here is your medicine, you just have to wait until you're better. 

Not sure how I can get back in the mood for sex. It's not anything husband has done, he really tries. But I'm not wanting any of it. I just want to feel like myself again. I don't think it will get better until I get better.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I'm still sick, and it's affecting my sex life.
> 
> I'm tired all the time. It's horrible of me, but when sex is mentioned I just think of how exhausting it is. It's not been a whole lot of fun lately. Any position where I am on bottom or where I'm not adequately sitting up causes horrible unsexy coughing fits. If I go on top or do doggie, it causes a lot of severe pain in my wrists from my carpal tunnel. Kissing makes me breathless.
> 
> I know husband is frustrated when I'm constantly coughing, stopping the kisses, etc. Sometimes I believe he thinks I'm faking, although he won't say it. So I try to grit my teeth and power through it. But it efficiently kills all pleasure and sexiness for me. To top it off I recently got over a painful bladder infection. Nothing ends the mood quicker than dry heaving and lots of pain.
> 
> Over all I'm just pooped all the time. A nice snuggle and a nap sounds much more appealing than sex right now. I feel like a lazy lover, which of course makes me feel guilty. Blah. Honestly I just don't want to get out of bed in the morning, and I'm slacking at work and house chores. I know I've been whining a lot recently. But I'm tired of always being sick, and exhausted. I just don't feel good.
> 
> Yes I've been to the doctor. Same answer I always get. Here is your medicine, you just have to wait until you're better.
> 
> Not sure how I can get back in the mood for sex. It's not anything husband has done, he really tries. But I'm not wanting any of it. I just want to feel like myself again. I don't think it will get better until I get better.


Sorry to hear your're not feeling better yet.  That's no fun. 

Have you tried any home remedies to help your immune system fight this off? Such as a change in diet(more fruits and veggies, probiotics, garlic, etc), getting more sleep, getting natural vitamin D from sunshine(sit outside during lunch and soak up some sun), etc. Probiotics are definitely a big help in getting people over different illnesses. 

Hope you're feeling better soon!


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious, I think you should forget about sex for a while if you are too sick to participate. Your husband should understand - in sickness and in health, and all that. You need to be focusing on your health and getting well. I'm sorry it has proven to be such a slow process. Many hugs to you! Still saying a prayer for your healing.


----------



## Anonymous07

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

How are things going? Thinking of you.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Curious,

It has been a month .. I hope you are feeling better.
Wishing you the best.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Hey guys.  Thanks for checking in on me periodically. 

I did get sick again as a repeat from January. Thankfully I knew the signs and caught it early enough where I didn't have to go back to the hospital. But had several weeks of antibiotics, and a month of condoms. Yuck. Feeling mostly better but sex is still just okay.

Nothing bad, nothing great. We are very busy, and sex is becoming more infrequent. It's feeling pretty stale, and I must admit I'm not too excited about it. Antibiotics change intimate places for a while which makes me self conscious. We don't spend a lot of time being romantic, or warming up beforehand, so I just don't feel very aroused and it's hard to get into the moment. I know he tries. But I'm still feeling very blah about all of it. What the heck is wrong with me? We aren't fighting about it or anything, it just is very passionless and boring. Mostly on my end. I know it's me, I'm just not sure what to do about it. 

It really hard for me to orgasm since my head isn't in the game, and it's been taking a while. Several times he couldn't get me there, or he couldn't wait it out and he felt bad. So I'm really trying, but they are forced and not that enjoyable. Honestly I just don't really feel like having them. Which is odd. We have completely switched roles. I feel very put off by his groping, and rough handling. I don't feel sexy or turned on by our normal amorous activities. I find myself feeling shy during sex. WTH. I know this is a bad downward spiral to get into, and I need to stop it. I'm just not sure how. 

We love each other, we get along as normal, do everything together, etc. No hard feelings or arguing or anything like that. For some reason I'm just not feeling very sexual. 

Any tips or ideas? This has been going on for a while, and I thought it would get better once my health was better, but not much has changed.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I don't have any tips or ideas, but I did want to tell you that I think it's great that your emotional intimacy is strong.

That is miles ahead of where you were a year ago.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Welcome back Curious!!! I think of you often. Glad you are feeling better. 

I'm sure a lot of what's wrong is the stress of being ill so long. That's enough to make anyone not want sex. Just give your body some time to heal and get back to it's old self! Your drive will come back in time.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am wondering if there is some pressure to "perform" as well. Feeling better and then engaging in sex and suddenly you have to be like you were before you were sick. Not realistic. 

As an experiment you might try to have a foreplay only night. No sex expected. Just touch and feedback what feels good. No pressure, and see what a few nights of that feels like. I am really just guessing .. and don't really have any magic tips for you.

Wishing you lots of luck and pleasure.


----------



## Nix

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I hope I can participate here. I am half of a married lesbian couple. My wife is LD and openly discusses it, which is good. I have to say we didn't start out that way. We have had many fights about this issue and came close to breaking up over it. I do not have to explain how painful it is to want someone who doesn't want you back, or doesn't return your passion to the same degree. It is comforting to me to see how many women go through this (regardless of sexual orientation).

I am always the initiator. If I don't take this role, no sex is happening. My W has said recently that she has "zero desire." :frown2: So hard not to take it personally. We have only been married 2 years, together for 3. We are in our late 40s. We average about once a week which given the situation (being a lesbian couple, statistically the lowest frequency type of couple anyway, plus LD issues) is actually pretty good. I'd prefer more like 2x/week. But at least it's happening.

Once we get started, it's mutual and it's great. The problem in our marriage is that sex is generally the last thing on my W's mind. In my previous relationship I was frequently pursued sexually, and I miss it. A lot. Not enough to cheat, not ever. But there are times when I would give anything for my W to just throw me down and have her way with me. And that's not gonna happen.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> I am wondering if there is some pressure to "perform" as well. Feeling better and then engaging in sex and suddenly you have to be like you were before you were sick. Not realistic.
> 
> As an experiment you might try to have a foreplay only night. No sex expected. Just touch and feedback what feels good. No pressure, and see what a few nights of that feels like. I am really just guessing .. and don't really have any magic tips for you.
> 
> Wishing you lots of luck and pleasure.



That could definitely be a part of it. I brought it up to husband last night that I haven't been craving much sex lately and he suggested it was probably at least partly due to how busy we are. My business has also been going quite well (which is a good thing), but I'm feeling stressed and having trouble keeping up.

We went to a family graduation last night, dressed up, and had planned on having some romantic time when we got home. Unfortunately the dinner afterwards took several hours and we ended up getting home super late and being exhausted from the busy week. 

I'm sure we will get back in the groove eventually. Right now it's hard to even find time to relax, get good sleep, and keep the house clean. So it's probably pretty normal for sex not to be high on the list. A good snuggle and a nap sounds more appealing at this point.


----------



## Piper502

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I have spent last night and this morning going through this thread. CW, I must say I bow to you for all the time, tears, and effort you have put in your marriage to make it better. I've been dealing with the same issue of being the HD wife. Granted the issues are different but the pain is the same. Most of the folks who have responded to you over the course of your journey have been great. I'm going to try to apply some of them to my situation.

I wish you all good things! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> That could definitely be a part of it. I brought it up to husband last night that I haven't been craving much sex lately and he suggested it was probably at least partly due to how busy we are. My business has also been going quite well (which is a good thing), but I'm feeling stressed and having trouble keeping up.
> 
> We went to a family graduation last night, dressed up, and had planned on having some romantic time when we got home. Unfortunately the dinner afterwards took several hours and we ended up getting home super late and being exhausted from the busy week.
> 
> I'm sure we will get back in the groove eventually. Right now it's hard to even find time to relax, get good sleep, and keep the house clean. So it's probably pretty normal for sex not to be high on the list. A good snuggle and a nap sounds more appealing at this point.


In the words of the Merovingian, "If we never take time, how can we ever have time?"

Life sometimes gets busy, and we have to sacrifice the less important things in order to have time for the more important ones. You just need to decide which of those categories sex falls into, and either continue sacrificing it, or find something less important to sacrifice in it's place.

Btw, antibiotics are really bad for you. You could consider using something friendlier, like garlic.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



BioFury said:


> In the words of the Merovingian, "If we never take time, how can we ever have time?"
> 
> Life sometimes gets busy, and we have to sacrifice the less important things in order to have time for the more important ones. You just need to decide which of those categories sex falls into, and either continue sacrificing it, or find something less important to sacrifice in it's place.
> 
> Btw, antibiotics are really bad for you. You could consider using something friendlier, like garlic.


Oh definitely. You have to make time for sex and prioritize it. We can make time, it's just the fact that we are so busy, that I'm tired and not really in the mood. Even when time is made.

And no, I cannot take garlic. I have very real, very severe, chronic health conditions, that will literately kill me if I don't take them seriously and take antibiotics when I need them. 

Really I HATE hospitals and medicine. But when my husband is crying because I'm coughing and can't breath and he thinks I'm going to suffocate right there in front of him, it's time to go to the doctor.

I frequently get pneumonia as a side effect from my other health issues, which stacks with the health and lung defects. That means running a 104 fever, chills, joint pain, vomiting, etc. It's not something to mess around with. In January I avoided the hospital until I was in such severe pain when breathing that I thought I had a collapsed lung. We had to go to the ER in the middle of the night, and I was so sick at that point they were surprised I was able to walk and function.

This most recent time I got sick, he gave himself a stomach ulcer because he was so worried about me.  The only reason I was able to stay out of the hospital was because I caught the signs early and started taking antibiotics ASAP. I've had to take antibiotics so frequently, that I have to take more than one kind at once, and for double the length of most people. I'm not sure what happens when I get immune to these... 

But for now I try not to worry about that and we just take it one day at a time.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Oh definitely. You have to make time for sex and prioritize it. We can make time, it's just the fact that we are so busy, that I'm tired and not really in the mood. Even when time is made.
> 
> And no, I cannot take garlic. I have very real, very severe, chronic health conditions, that will literately kill me if I don't take them seriously and take antibiotics when I need them.
> 
> Really I HATE hospitals and medicine. But when my husband is crying because I'm coughing and can't breath and he thinks I'm going to suffocate right there in front of him, it's time to go to the doctor.
> 
> I frequently get pneumonia as a side effect from my other health issues, which stacks with the health and lung defects. That means running a 104 fever, chills, joint pain, vomiting, etc. It's not something to mess around with. In January I avoided the hospital until I was in such severe pain when breathing that I thought I had a collapsed lung. We had to go to the ER in the middle of the night, and I was so sick at that point they were surprised I was able to walk and function.
> 
> This most recent time I got sick, he gave himself a stomach ulcer because he was so worried about me.  The only reason I was able to stay out of the hospital was because I caught the signs early and started taking antibiotics ASAP. I've had to take antibiotics so frequently, that I have to take more than one kind at once, and for double the length of most people. I'm not sure what happens when I get immune to these...
> 
> But for now I try not to worry about that and we just take it one day at a time.


Have you considered taking garlic every day? I'm not suggesting you not take your antibiotics when you need them. But that you merely support your bodies immune system naturally and see if any benefits are observed.

Garlic is a powerful antibiotic, antifungal, antiviral, etc, so taking some garlic capsules with every meal might do you some good.

The idea being, if you support your bodies ability to heal itself with natural remedies every day, you might kill these infections before they even begin. Thus, your need for a doctor, and their powerful drugs, might become less frequent.


----------



## Holdingontoit

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Many people avoid onions and garlic because they fear they will get bad breath. But these foods help your body in many ways. Ph balance. Affect the bioflora in your gut. Chemicals in your blood. I agree with biofury that you might want to up your intake of garlic and onions and see if that helps with the frequent infections. And think about having your biome checked and add some probiotics.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



BioFury said:


> Have you considered taking garlic every day? I'm not suggesting you not take your antibiotics when you need them. But that you merely support your bodies immune system naturally and see if any benefits are observed.
> 
> *Garlic is a powerful antibiotic, antifungal, antiviral, etc, so taking some garlic capsules with every meal might do you some good.*
> 
> The idea being, if you support your bodies ability to heal itself with natural remedies every day, you might kill these infections before they even begin. Thus, your need a doctor, and their powerful drugs, might become less frequent.


:iagree:

I've seen dramatic improvement in my autoimmune issues since taking garlic daily. I crush up raw organic cloves, mix it with a little Manuka honey, and down the hatch it goes chased by a large glass of water.

Focus on healing right now CW. Glad to see you back!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## T&T

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



happy as a clam said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I've seen dramatic improvement in my autoimmune issues since taking garlic daily. I crush up raw organic cloves, mix it with a little Manuka honey, and down the hatch it goes chased by a large glass of water.
> 
> Focus on healing right now CW. Glad to see you back!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Clam, have you ever tried roasted garlic? Just a little olive oil and roast whole heads in the oven.

It's divine...

Uncooked garlic is horrible lol

Hang in there CW!


----------



## happy as a clam

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



T&T said:


> Clam, have you ever tried roasted garlic? Just a little olive oil and roast whole heads in the oven.
> 
> It's divine...
> 
> Uncooked garlic is horrible lol
> 
> Hang in there CW!


I LOVE roasted garlic! But I thought the allicin (killer active ingredient) was most potent in its raw form...?? Perhaps I need to do a little more research!

*Sorry for the thread detour, CW*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sorry your health is such an issue. I have seen several examples here on this forum where people take a break from sex due to health issues. But they seem at ease with it primarily because there is a physical issue, and not an issue between them. Totally different to miss sex because you physically can't vs when somebody does not desire it or has lost interest in it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

The problem with my health issues are that they are all the time. Sometimes they get worse, and it's impossible to have sex. But even on good days my health affects our sex life. We do what we can to help. Such as, my carpal tunnel kills me when we do doggie, and it's my favorite position. I usually try to push through the pain, but they will hurt so badly that I literately will go numb and loose all feeling in my arms for an hour or more after sex. Obviously it's hard to enjoy, and have an orgasm, when I am fighting so much pain. So for my birthday husband is buying a headboard for our bed. I picked it out specifically so I can lean on it with my elbows instead of having to support us on my wrists. 

Besides the health issues I'm still not feeling in the mood for sex, or much chemistry between us.  We have discussed this, and I've explained that I need more time to warm up. So he is really trying to put me in the mood, focus on me, be attentive, but it's just not working. He keeps asking me what I want, or what would put me in the mood. He would do anything I asked, but I really have no idea why I'm not horny, or what I want. It's very frustrating for both of us. I want to desire him... I just don't. I don't understand why. There are no unresolved issues or fighting of any kind. 

I think he is beginning to take it personally that he isn't able to arouse me. I worry if we don't get this figured out soon we are going to start falling back down the slippery slope.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Sounds like you need one of those pillow things, can't remember the name. They come in wedges and tubes to straddle and furniturey shapes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> Sounds like you need one of those pillow things, can't remember the name. They come in wedges and tubes to straddle and furniturey shapes.


Yes! I want a wedge so badly. But they are expensive. I will get one eventually. I think it would help me sleep, and help with sex. I plan on asking for one for Christmas.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> The problem with my health issues are that they are all the time. Sometimes they get worse, and it's impossible to have sex. But even on good days my health affects our sex life. We do what we can to help. Such as, my carpal tunnel kills me when we do doggie, and it's my favorite position. I usually try to push through the pain, but they will hurt so badly that I literately will go numb and loose all feeling in my arms for an hour or more after sex. Obviously it's hard to enjoy, and have an orgasm, when I am fighting so much pain. So for my birthday husband is buying a headboard for our bed. I picked it out specifically so I can lean on it with my elbows instead of having to support us on my wrists.
> 
> Besides the health issues I'm still not feeling in the mood for sex, or much chemistry between us.  We have discussed this, and I've explained that I need more time to warm up. So he is really trying to put me in the mood, focus on me, be attentive, but it's just not working. *He keeps asking me what I want, or what would put me in the mood. *He would do anything I asked, but I really have no idea why I'm not horny, or what I want. It's very frustrating for both of us. I want to desire him... I just don't. I don't understand why. There are no unresolved issues or fighting of any kind.
> 
> I think he is beginning to take it personally that he isn't able to arouse me. I worry if we don't get this figured out soon we are going to start falling back down the slippery slope.


Hum, when I keep asking my wife what she wants too many times, it really stops her from being in the mood. I wonder if you might feel somewhat the same. That is, too much "what would put you in the mood?" type questions makes a lot of pressure on you. 

Just thinking .. and if it is making you feel pressured, perhaps you two should talk about it.


----------



## larry.gray

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Throw a mat down on the dining room table, and lay on it face down with your feet on the floor. It creates a similar angle to doggy style, without the problem of having to support yourself. It is a useful method for very light women who like to be taken hard.

Don't forget to close the curtains &#55357;&#56835;.


----------



## *Deidre*

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



larry.gray said:


> Throw a mat down on the dining room table, and lay on it face down with your feet on the floor. It creates a similar angle to foggy style, without the problem of having to support yourself. It is a useful method for very light women who like to be taken hard.
> 
> Don't forget to close the curtains 😃.


:surprise:

lol


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes! I want a wedge so badly. But they are expensive. I will get one eventually. I think it would help me sleep, and help with sex. I plan on asking for one for Christmas.


Don't buy the name brand sex pillow. Google: wedge pillow. 

We redecorated a bedroom and no longer needed the bolster (long cylindrical firm right width pillow) we had. That got repurposed, great for doggy (too great, I sometimes last like 10 seconds), not sure if great for wrists. But think furniture store and not sex shop.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



fightforher said:


> Hum, when I keep asking my wife what she wants too many times, it really stops her from being in the mood. I wonder if you might feel somewhat the same. That is, too much "what would put you in the mood?" type questions makes a lot of pressure on you.
> 
> Just thinking .. and if it is making you feel pressured, perhaps you two should talk about it.


Could be. I'm definitely feeling some pressure. He is starting to take it as a personal failure of his "manliness" if I can't have an orgasm, or if I don't seem to be too into it. This of course makes me feel bad, so I try to push myself to orgasm, or I am even perhaps avoiding sex a little.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



larry.gray said:


> Throw a mat down on the dining room table, and lay on it face down with your feet on the floor. It creates a similar angle to foggy style, without the problem of having to support yourself. It is a useful method for very light women who like to be taken hard.
> 
> Don't forget to close the curtains 😃.


Hmm. This is a good idea. I worry I would break the table though. 

Pst. What curtains... lol


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



CharlieParker said:


> Don't buy the name brand sex pillow. Google: wedge pillow.
> 
> We redecorated a bedroom and no longer needed the bolster (long cylindrical firm right width pillow) we had. That got repurposed, great for doggy (too great, I sometimes last like 10 seconds), not sure if great for wrists. But think furniture store and not sex shop.


Oh definitely. I was looking at the cheaper ones on Amazon.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Doggy position can done while you're on your forearms, not wrists. Think of the play bow that dogs do....get your shoulders lower than your hips. Or if you prefer to have your spine less stressed,because shoulders down means your back is further arched, you can make fists and lean on fisted hands instead of on bent wrists. Fisted hands protects the carpal tunnel from compression...if they aren't too swollen. Another option is a low back sofa. The sensations of doggy position can be duplicated in reverse cowgirl. You grab onto his ankles for stable movement of your hips.

Also, if you kneel on the end of the bed, with your butt over the edge, and your H stands behind you, you should not be supporting his weight at all! Good lord he shouldn't be resting his weight on your back anyway!

But none of this is any good without you being aroused.

This is where marriage becomes more work than we anticipated. 

Before, your sex life was brand new. Lots of chemistry and desire for the new. You were or became aroused just thinking about having sex. But it's not new anymore. The "butterflies in your stomach" phase is over. Now you have great rapport, emotional intimacy, but no chemistry.

This means that you will begin to have sex before you are aroused. You start even though you're not aroused yet. You become aroused through foreplay. You become aroused slowly, more slow than you're used to. 

Is there any kind of movement or touching or kissing that usually gets you going? Sometimes all I have to do is back up and let my H wrap is arms around me, sometimes I need more, sometimes less. Once you become aroused, that's when you also become into sex.

This may be difficult for your husband to understand because he's used to a wife who tackles him.

You now have responsive desire. This puts more burden on your H to show passion, and not passivity; show confidence and not pout. This is the time to make sex playful. Make him catch you. Have a pillow fight. Get your heart rate up because an elevated heart rate make arousal building much easier.

Think about sex! Think about how good it feels and the images in your head. If he's making signs that he is going to want sex, that's when you start thinking about the last time you two did this crazy thing in the back of the car.... Yes he needs to do his part, but so do you. 

You may not be in the mood. That's okay. But you should be open to becoming aroused.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

You might consider laying on your stomach with your legs straight, and him straddling your thighs. No support required. You can put pillows under your hips to change the angle as needed.

And as for being aroused, don't sweat it. Try making out. Don't try to force anything, just get together when you're done with everything for the day, disrobe, and cuddle up and kiss for 15 minutes. Don't try to force it with groping or anything (unless you feel like it of course), just let it build.

Showering together, sleeping naked, thinking about it during the day, are all things that might help.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Doggy position can done while you're on your forearms, not wrists. Think of the play bow that dogs do....get your shoulders lower than your hips. Or if you prefer to have your spine less stressed,because shoulders down means your back is further arched, you can make fists and lean on fisted hands instead of on bent wrists. Fisted hands protects the carpal tunnel from compression...if they aren't too swollen. Another option is a low back sofa. The sensations of doggy position can be duplicated in reverse cowgirl. You grab onto his ankles for stable movement of your hips.
> 
> Also, if you kneel on the end of the bed, with your butt over the edge, and your H stands behind you, you should not be supporting his weight at all! Good lord he shouldn't be resting his weight on your back anyway!
> 
> But none of this is any good without you being aroused.
> 
> This is where marriage becomes more work than we anticipated.
> 
> Before, your sex life was brand new. Lots of chemistry and desire for the new. You were or became aroused just thinking about having sex. But it's not new anymore. The "butterflies in your stomach" phase is over. Now you have great rapport, emotional intimacy, but no chemistry.
> 
> This means that you will begin to have sex before you are aroused. You start even though you're not aroused yet. You become aroused through foreplay. You become aroused slowly, more slow than you're used to.
> 
> Is there any kind of movement or touching or kissing that usually gets you going? Sometimes all I have to do is back up and let my H wrap is arms around me, sometimes I need more, sometimes less. Once you become aroused, that's when you also become into sex.
> 
> This may be difficult for your husband to understand because he's used to a wife who tackles him.
> 
> You now have responsive desire. This puts more burden on your H to show passion, and not passivity; show confidence and not pout. This is the time to make sex playful. Make him catch you. Have a pillow fight. Get your heart rate up because an elevated heart rate make arousal building much easier.
> 
> Think about sex! Think about how good it feels and the images in your head. If he's making signs that he is going to want sex, that's when you start thinking about the last time you two did this crazy thing in the back of the car.... Yes he needs to do his part, but so do you.
> 
> You may not be in the mood. That's okay. But you should be open to becoming aroused.


I do use my forearms and fists as much as I can. Neither position is comfortable long term. We kneel at the side of the bed as well. That one is probably the most comfortable to me, but due to height differences it can be tricky to get the right angle.

Haven't mastered reserve cowgirl yet, still working on that one. lol. 

He definitely begins to rest on me when he's in the moment. I try to remind him, but he forgets quickly. Also my legs are longer than his, so in the doggy position I'm actually taller than him, which means I have to spread my legs wide to lower myself, and a lot of his weight is on me. Leaning against the wall helps keep his weight off my wrists. But again, it's not comfortable long term. I'm really hoping the new headboard does the trick. 

I get aroused by getting being held, and having our bodies touching. Such as hugs. He has been really good about giving me a back rub, spooning, etc before. The problem seems to be increasing the arousal past that point.


----------



## Buddy400

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Anon Pink said:


> Doggy position can done while you're on your forearms, not wrists. Think of the play bow that dogs do....get your shoulders lower than your hips. Or if you prefer to have your spine less stressed,because shoulders down means your back is further arched, you can make fists and lean on fisted hands instead of on bent wrists. Fisted hands protects the carpal tunnel from compression...if they aren't too swollen. Another option is a low back sofa. The sensations of doggy position can be duplicated in reverse cowgirl. You grab onto his ankles for stable movement of your hips.
> 
> Also, if you kneel on the end of the bed, with your butt over the edge, and your H stands behind you, you should not be supporting his weight at all! Good lord he shouldn't be resting his weight on your back anyway!
> 
> But none of this is any good without you being aroused.
> 
> This is where marriage becomes more work than we anticipated.
> 
> Before, your sex life was brand new. Lots of chemistry and desire for the new. You were or became aroused just thinking about having sex. But it's not new anymore. The "butterflies in your stomach" phase is over. Now you have great rapport, emotional intimacy, but no chemistry.
> 
> This means that you will begin to have sex before you are aroused. You start even though you're not aroused yet. You become aroused through foreplay. You become aroused slowly, more slow than you're used to.
> 
> Is there any kind of movement or touching or kissing that usually gets you going? Sometimes all I have to do is back up and let my H wrap is arms around me, sometimes I need more, sometimes less. Once you become aroused, that's when you also become into sex.
> 
> This may be difficult for your husband to understand because he's used to a wife who tackles him.
> 
> You now have responsive desire. This puts more burden on your H to show passion, and not passivity; show confidence and not pout. This is the time to make sex playful. Make him catch you. Have a pillow fight. Get your heart rate up because an elevated heart rate make arousal building much easier.
> 
> Think about sex! Think about how good it feels and the images in your head. If he's making signs that he is going to want sex, that's when you start thinking about the last time you two did this crazy thing in the back of the car.... Yes he needs to do his part, but so do you.
> 
> You may not be in the mood. That's okay. But you should be open to becoming aroused.


\

AP, very good. You need to go pro with this stuff!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We got into it last night because I've been super self conscious about oral on me. In the last few months my intimate area just hasn't seemed to be her normal self. I attribute it to all the medications I was on. But I seem to have more fluids, sex is sometimes painful, and I occasionally bleed ever so slightly after sex. I've had a pap smear and been checked out. They said it is just normal irritation from sex and they suggested we always use a condom. Ha. But it still makes me worry that "she" has changed and will now taste/smell funny. 

This of course is probably all in my head, and husband got upset because he said it should be his choice whether or not it bothers him. Which is true. But it still causes me anxiety and makes it hard to enjoy. This compounds on the fact that I am already struggling to feel aroused, and it kills the mood for me. But I think our discussion last night is a step in the right direction. He knows I'm self conscious, and he tried to convince me that I shouldn't be, and that there is nothing wrong with her. I need to relax and get it through my head... Work in progress.

The problem is I feel so guilty. I feel guilty that I'm not getting aroused, I feel guilty that I'm struggling to have orgasms, I feel guilty that oral makes me uncomfortable. My issues are making my husband feel guilty, which makes me feel guilty! Seriously. We are in a downward spiral of negativity, and we need to stop. I feel so much pressure to "perform" that it ruining the whole experience. I really would like to just step back and relax, and not focus on me. I want to have short, quickie, fun sex for a while with no strings attached and no pressure. But he won't. He goes out of his way to make every time his personal mission to focus on my enjoyment. Even when I want to stop he always wants to try just a while longer. Normally, I would be happy that he cares so much. But right now, it's making me crazy.

Looks like another sit down talk is in order.


----------



## Holdingontoit

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Looks like another sit down talk is in order.


No! No sit down talks about sex when you are in a downward spiral. Just creates more pressure and makes it worse.

Here is what you do. You tell us you want some quickies. So you make it quick for him. You make it your mission to make sure he reaches orgasm waaay too soon. He wants to do foreplay but you tell him you need him inside you soooo baaaaad. Then you pull out all your tricks to get him off ASAP. He apologizes. You tell him no biggie, that you are proud of yourself for being so sexy and skilled that he can't resist you. After a couple of times, he will catch on that you are doing it on purpose. Then it is GAME ON! You do your best to get him off. He fends you off. That totally changes the dynamic and distracts from sex being about him tediously trying everything to get YOU off.

If he insists on talking, here is one point to deliver. Sex is not supposed to be all about his ego. Yes, OK, maybe he gets an ego rush from getting you off. But that should not be the be all and end all of sex. He doesn't get to dictate that you have to have an orgasm every time just because that is what satisfies his fragile little ego. Don't let him tell you he wants it to be good for you, too. You get to judge whether sex is "good" for you, and if you are OK with sex without orgasms sometimes, who is he to tell you that isn't really enough for you? No, when he insists sex is only good when he gets you off, that is his ego talking. Tell him to tell his ego to be quiet and just accept that his sexy loving wife is going to force feed him some one-sided sex (in his direction) and he better darn well enjoy it because otherwise you are going to be insulted that he is being so selfish!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Holdingontoit said:


> No! No sit down talks about sex when you are in a downward spiral. Just creates more pressure and makes it worse.
> 
> Here is what you do. You tell us you want some quickies. So you make it quick for him. You make it your mission to make sure he reaches orgasm waaay too soon. He wants to do foreplay but you tell him you need him inside you soooo baaaaad. Then you pull out all your tricks to get him off ASAP. He apologizes. You tell him no biggie, that you are proud of yourself for being so sexy and skilled that he can't resist you. After a couple of times, he will catch on that you are doing it on purpose. Then it is GAME ON! You do your best to get him off. He fends you off. That totally changes the dynamic and distracts from sex being about him tediously trying everything to get YOU off.
> 
> If he insists on talking, here is one point to deliver. Sex is not supposed to be all about his ego. Yes, OK, maybe he gets an ego rush from getting you off. But that should not be the be all and end all of sex. He doesn't get to dictate that you have to have an orgasm every time just because that is what satisfies his fragile little ego. Don't let him tell you he wants it to be good for you, too. You get to judge whether sex is "good" for you, and if you are OK with sex without orgasms sometimes, who is he to tell you that isn't really enough for you? No, when he insists sex is only good when he gets you off, that is his ego talking. Tell him to tell his ego to be quiet and just accept that his sexy loving wife is going to force feed him some one-sided sex (in his direction) and he better darn well enjoy it because otherwise you are going to be insulted that he is being so selfish!


Ha.

Here's the thing. I've already been doing this. I may or may not turn it up a notch when he says to slow down. 

It is beginning to backfire on me though. Last night I pushed things along and then he insisted that I lay back and let him keep working. After a few minutes I asked him if he could please just stop and we could snuggle instead because I didn't feel like having an orgasm. Then he pleads with me, "please, just let me try a little bit longer." This is a frequent occurrence. 

Also. Since he has been finishing "early." He is then mad at himself, and thinking it's all his fault that I didn't have one, because he couldn't hold out long enough.

I don't think it's all ego either. I think it goes back to when he didn't even try to give me any orgasms, and I chewed into him. For years we had to go over how mine are important too, and that I matter just as much as him, etc. It's ingrained in his head that I want orgasms, and he doesn't believe me now when I say I don't have to have them every single time.


----------



## notmyrealname4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

.


----------



## fightforher

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We got into it last night because I've been super self conscious about oral on me. In the last few months my intimate area just hasn't seemed to be her normal self. I attribute it to all the medications I was on. But I seem to have more fluids, sex is sometimes painful, and I occasionally bleed ever so slightly after sex. I've had a pap smear and been checked out. They said it is just normal irritation from sex and they suggested we always use a condom. Ha. But it still makes me worry that "she" has changed and will now taste/smell funny.
> 
> This of course is probably all in my head, and husband got upset because he said it should be his choice whether or not it bothers him. Which is true. But it still causes me anxiety and makes it hard to enjoy. This compounds on the fact that I am already struggling to feel aroused, and it kills the mood for me. But I think our discussion last night is a step in the right direction. He knows I'm self conscious, and he tried to convince me that I shouldn't be, and that there is nothing wrong with her. I need to relax and get it through my head... Work in progress.
> 
> The problem is I feel so guilty. I feel *guilty *that I'm not getting aroused, I feel guilty that I'm struggling to have orgasms, I feel *guilty *that oral makes me uncomfortable. My issues are making my husband feel guilty, which makes me feel *guilty*! Seriously. We are in a downward spiral of negativity, and we need to stop. I feel so much pressure to "perform" that it ruining the whole experience. I really would like to just step back and relax, and not focus on me. I want to have short, quickie, fun sex for a while with no strings attached and no pressure. But he won't. He goes out of his way to make every time his personal mission to focus on my enjoyment. Even when I want to stop he always wants to try just a while longer. Normally, I would be happy that he cares so much. But right now, it's making me crazy.
> 
> Looks like another sit down talk is in order.


Feeling guilty is an arousal killer. And I can understand his desire to just "go a little longer" as if that was going to help. In the moment, it may seem like just the thing to try. But it is actually a bad thing to try.

Talk a little more. Explain that part of the fun is the journey to try to get there, but you don't always have to get there to be satisfied. You need less pressure from him to O every time.


----------



## Holdingontoit

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I am thinking you are both confused and talking won't help. Having sex "same old way" won't help. You need to be BadSanta. You need to do things way outside your normal routine to shake up all the expectations. If you don't normally use food in your play, use food. Get some RediWhip. Get some chocolate syrup. Get some drop cloths at the dollar store or a roll of 400 feet of drop cloth at Home Depot. Part of the fun is giggling as you put 3 layers of plastic cloth on the bed so you don't get chocolate syrup on the covers. If you limit the conversation to "what position" and "are we or are we not trying for TCW to have an orgasm tonight" then the talks are going to suck the fun and joy out of the session. Much more likely to bond arguing over which flavor of jam to buy, or Cool Whip vs Redi Whip.


----------



## the2ofus

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We have started practicing something called devotions in our sex life. It is just sexual time together everyday whether you go for orgasm. Morning ones quite often end up with him asking if I mind him going for it and I reply as long as I get mine later. But those days we are just to drained from life it gives us a few minutes to connect and say "we are one" with no pressure. There have been times as we deal with nasty extended family issues that I have just wept while he held me so tight, seems so unsexy but in this context it just added an even greater depth to our relationship. Sex like this has added a new intimacy with less pressure since we started this, we rarely say we are too tired cause it doesn't take great energy. Sometimes it turns into more, sometimes not.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Just a quick pop in.

I've been sick from multiple things all year. Horrible horrible. We had to use condoms for 6 weeks due to antibiotics. Right now I'm not actively sick, but I still feel crappy every day. 

Sex is meh. We haven't been connecting real well the past several months. I'm just not really getting aroused or excited anymore. Sex is not horrible but just okay. Life is crazy busy, I rarely feel good, and sex has just been a lot of work as of late. I'm finding myself not even wanting orgasms. I think "ugh. It will take too long and it's just not worth it." Shame on me, but I feel so insensitive and unaroused that they are a struggle. Trying to act enthusiastic and involved but I'm just not craving it anymore. I'm also feeling self conscious about the 30 pounds I've gained since we've been married. (I am trying to eat better and get some of it back off. I'm 155 pounds and 5' 7" so I'm not huge but still.)

Body image, stress, sickness, and our crazy life is really doing a number of my libido. I feel so unsexy. 

Even in the moment I am feeling grossed out by his slobber or thinking how fat my stomach looks. Ugh. Husband has done nothing to cause these issues, which makes me feel horrible that I feel this way. I have no problem at all wanting to please him, give blow jobs, etc. I still love giving him oral. I just honestly don't want anything reciprocated on me. I just want to make him happy and move on. This of course is distressing him because he wants to please me, and it's making all our sessions turn into a hour long goal of trying to get me to orgasm which is really having the opposite effect. 

Occasionally there are good times mixed in, so it's not all bad. But I can't remember the last time I felt a raw urge and couldn't keep my hands off him. 

Besides our sex life and my health, things are going well. We get along great, spend everyday together, laugh, etc. No ill feeling towards each other at all. We just seem to be missing that passionate love.


----------



## notmyrealname4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

[[[hugs]]] Curious.

I don't have any advice. I've thought about your thread from time to time.

I'm concerned about your health. What's your long-term prognosis from your doctor?

IIRC, your bronchitis will be chronic??

Do you think you should have children? So difficult, to be struggling sexually; but everything else is good.

And I do remember reading in the past that you were upset that he got oral all the time; and wouldn't reciprocate regularly.

Now it seems to have turned around; out-of-balance the other way.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Long term prognosis is unknown. Not many adults with my condition. It doesn't go away. In the past year they think they have created a surgery that will possibly cure me. But it's so new at this point they don't know if it's a long term fix or not. I've been in contact in the doctor who does it. (I would have to fly across the country) We are exploring giving it a try next year. 

I don't think we should have children at this point because of my health issues. All my medicines can't be taken during pregnancy. Something to perhaps think about if/after I get the surgery. 

Yes we have definitely flip flopped sexually! I don't think it will last forever though, hopefully if I can improve my health and my stress load eventually.


----------



## notmyrealname4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Do you still look at him, and admire how cute/attractive he is?

IOW, you still know he's adorable; but your body is in kind of a funk right now; so your sexual response is down----but the basic attraction *is* still there?


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Yes. I still think he is smoking hot. 

I still like the "idea" of sex, but when it's actually happening it's just meh. I don't feel that rawr feeling. 

It's weird. I enjoy touching him, looking at him, etc. But I have no desire to be touched. I think my body and mind are just too tired to be sexual right now.


----------



## TicklishTickler66

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I apologize for asking and I am new to this forum. Could someone give me the definition of LD and HD?


----------



## notmyrealname4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. I still think he is smoking hot.
> 
> I still like the "idea" of sex
> It's weird. I enjoy touching him, looking at him, etc.



Yay. This is like money in a sexual savings account.

You've got something to get you by, until you are feeling better.

Get well soon, Curious.


----------



## notmyrealname4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TicklishTickler66 said:


> I apologize for asking and I am new to this forum. Could someone give me the definition of LD and HD?




LD means lower sexual desire.

HD means higher sexual desire.


----------



## TicklishTickler66

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

@notmyrealname4 thank you. A little easier to follow the thread now.


----------



## Apexmale

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes. I still think he is smoking hot.
> 
> I still like the "idea" of sex, but when it's actually happening it's just meh. I don't feel that rawr feeling.
> 
> It's weird. I enjoy touching him, looking at him, etc. But I have no desire to be touched. I think my body and mind are just too tired to be sexual right now.


You may need to step up your wardrobe. Try to wear sexier clothing around your husband and see his reaction. Excluding work, do the same to your casual wardrobe and see how guys you dont know respond to your looks in public. You will always be your worst critic. Dress for an audience, then see how they react. Your husband will see the attention you get and his drive for you will increase tenfold.


----------



## Tino

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He's crazy I would die for a woman like u


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well 2 months later things are still eh. Sickness, fever blisters, etc. Really put a damper on things.

Feeling kind of upset right now, and need some good advice. We hadn't gotten to kiss for close to a month because of a long lasting fever blister.  Then of course when it finally went away, my period struck. 

Before the period we had guests over for multiple days, then when we finally got alone time he got too excited and blew partially. Then he couldn't get back up or finish, and so sex stopped with no offer to finish me. Then the period, during which husband got some special treatment. Yesterday was the first time in over a month where we could actually kiss, and have slow yummy sex. Long story short, I'm feeling a bit used. I can't remember the last time we had "romantic" love making. Last night he just keep asking for things that make me uncomfortable or are turn offs to me. Touching myself, lap dancing, using dirty words, wanting me on top the whole time. I know I need to loosen up and get over it, but no joke every single time he is asking/begging for me to do these things. Then if I don't want to he will sigh loudly, pout, guilt me. Which of course makes me feel bad and lousy, but definitely does not encourage me to open up and do these things. Talk about a mood killer.

I like being on top, but every time I tried to switch to a different position he complained. I wanted to be held, and warmed up after so long without intimacy. Our foreplay was me giving him a blow while he laid there and didn't touch me. Then I guess he was ready to stick it in, and so he was touching much too hurriedly/harshly, and it was painful. I did have an orgasm surprisingly, but instantly he finished and got up. No snuggling, or asking if I was ready to be done. 

This just isn't like him, and I don't know what it going on. Sex is not fun or relaxing, it's just him asking me for stuff that I really don't feel comfortable doing right now. I'm not feeling loved and cherished, I feel used. 

Help! How can I open up more, and be more willingly to do these things? He says we've been married long enough and I need to get over my shyness. I know that part is on me, but him sighing and whining and making me feel bad is wrong. Especially since all of those things are a mood killer for me, it is unfair of him to bring them up every single time. Why does it always have to be what he wants? I want to be less shy, but right now I feel more self conscious then ever. He is wanting to spice up our sex life, instead it is making me upset, and the sex bad.

Ugh. I'm just in a bad mood today. Rant over.


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

So, did you say any of that to him? Print it out and let him read it if you are too shy to say it out loud...


----------



## uhtred

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Opening up and doing things he likes is great - but it MUST be a 2-way street: he needs to be happy to do all the things you like- which includes romantic love making. 






TheCuriousWife said:


> Well 2 months later things are still eh. Sickness, fever blisters, etc. Really put a damper on things.
> 
> Feeling kind of upset right now, and need some good advice. We hadn't gotten to kiss for close to a month because of a long lasting fever blister.  Then of course when it finally went away, my period struck.
> 
> Before the period we had guests over for multiple days, then when we finally got alone time he got too excited and blew partially. Then he couldn't get back up or finish, and so sex stopped with no offer to finish me. Then the period, during which husband got some special treatment. Yesterday was the first time in over a month where we could actually kiss, and have slow yummy sex. Long story short, I'm feeling a bit used. I can't remember the last time we had "romantic" love making. Last night he just keep asking for things that make me uncomfortable or are turn offs to me. Touching myself, lap dancing, using dirty words, wanting me on top the whole time. I know I need to loosen up and get over it, but no joke every single time he is asking/begging for me to do these things. Then if I don't want to he will sigh loudly, pout, guilt me. Which of course makes me feel bad and lousy, but definitely does not encourage me to open up and do these things. Talk about a mood killer.
> 
> I like being on top, but every time I tried to switch to a different position he complained. I wanted to be held, and warmed up after so long without intimacy. Our foreplay was me giving him a blow while he laid there and didn't touch me. Then I guess he was ready to stick it in, and so he was touching much too hurriedly/harshly, and it was painful. I did have an orgasm surprisingly, but instantly he finished and got up. No snuggling, or asking if I was ready to be done.
> 
> This just isn't like him, and I don't know what it going on. Sex is not fun or relaxing, it's just him asking me for stuff that I really don't feel comfortable doing right now. I'm not feeling loved and cherished, I feel used.
> 
> Help! How can I open up more, and be more willingly to do these things? He says we've been married long enough and I need to get over my shyness. I know that part is on me, but him sighing and whining and making me feel bad is wrong. Especially since all of those things are a mood killer for me, it is unfair of him to bring them up every single time. Why does it always have to be what he wants? I want to be less shy, but right now I feel more self conscious then ever. He is wanting to spice up our sex life, instead it is making me upset, and the sex bad.
> 
> Ugh. I'm just in a bad mood today. Rant over.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> So, did you say any of that to him? Print it out and let him read it if you are too shy to say it out loud...


Not yet. I wanted to cool off a bit first. But hopefully will get some time tonight.


----------



## notmyrealname4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Long story short, I'm feeling a bit used.* I can't remember the last time we had "romantic" love making.* Last night he just keep asking for things that make *me uncomfortable or are turn offs to me.** Touching myself, lap dancing, using dirty words, wanting me on top the whole time.* I know I need to loosen up and get over it, but no joke every single time* he is asking/begging for me to do these things. *Then if I don't want to* he will sigh loudly, pout, guilt me.* Which of course makes me feel bad and lousy, but definitely does not encourage me to open up and do these things. Talk about a mood killer.




If I recall correctly, your husband doesn't use porn.

It sounds like that might have changed.


Regardless, you are a sweetie pie.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



notmyrealname4 said:


> If I recall correctly, your husband doesn't use porn.
> 
> It sounds like that might have changed.
> 
> 
> Regardless, you are a sweetie pie.


Thanks, but he still doesn't use porn. We have talked about that. He has always wanted me to do these things, but here lately it seems to be all he focuses on.

Anyway, I've told him we need to talk about it, and we are going to get to the bottom of this tonight.


----------



## notmyrealname4

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Thanks, but he still doesn't use porn. We have talked about that. He has always wanted me to do this things, but here lately it seems to be all he focuses on.
> 
> Anyway, I've told him we need to talk about it, and we are going to get to the bottom of this tonight.




Good, I'm so glad to hear that.


Best wishes, hon'.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Well we talked, but I don't feel like we got anywhere. Half way through our discussion I had to leave for prior engagements and when I came back he didn't want to talk about it anymore, even though I told him I didn't feel like we resolved or worked out anything.

He admitted that he was pouting a couple days ago when sex was so one sided. He was just in a bad mood because I rejected one of his ideas and he was being passive aggressive. 

He basically told me that all he hears is no to everything he wants to do. He says sex isn't "doing it for him" anymore, and he says I don't want to do anything fun or new. He says I need to work too, and try to please him and not just lay there. I think that is highly unfair of him to say I don't participate or care about his pleasure. I will use my hands or mouth anywhere he wants me to on him. And TMI he gave me a pearl necklace last week. So it's not like I'm a prude or don't touch him. For pete's sake, I am enthusiastic about blow jobs and love giving them, and I am confident that I am good at them. Most men would love that, and it really hurts when he just lays there, and says that it isn't arousing him enough. If I can't even do a dang blow job right, then what can I do right?

I know I shouldn't have this attitude, but him saying that I don't try hard enough makes me not want to have sex at all. Why would I want to do things if I have to worry about him judging me, or not being good enough?

He keeps wanting more, more, more, and I just feel like I'm not sufficient for him. I know I should want to keep improving and doing more things, but I've always been somewhat shy and awkward. Why am I not good enough for him now?

Again, I'm sure I would/will do the things he asks for eventually. But sex doesn't feel "safe" right now. I don't feel comfortable or confident in the bedroom at all. Especially since he came right out and said that he isn't having a very good time. If he would use positive encouragement instead of bombarding me with multiple requests every single time we have sex, and then pouting when he doesn't get his way, maybe I would want to try to do these things for him. Instead I have to worry every time that I'm not going to be the sex kitten he wants, and he will be unhappy. Ugh.


This morning he is all chipper and acting like everything is fixed. I'm still upset, maybe more than I was the yesterday. He was open with me with what he wants, but I honestly have no desire to even try. I just feel like withholding sex since he apparently doesn't like it anyway. Shame on me.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Also he is wanting ideas for what could make sex better for me or turn me on, and I really don't have any clue. So ladies, what do you like your husband to do? What gets your motor going?


----------



## anonmd

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

It seems to me that you want (maybe like is a better word?) one thing and he wants another. 

Sooo, split it up 50-50. 1/2 the time his job is to make love to you the way you want and to hell with whatever positions he prefers - it's not his night. Tell him what you want those nights, you described it pretty well!

The other 1/2 the time it is your turn to put out for him which means you are concentrating on what he wants and may not get there yourself. But that's OK, because tomorrow is YOUR turn.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



anonmd said:


> It seems to me that you want (maybe like is a better word?) one thing and he wants another.
> 
> Sooo, split it up 50-50. 1/2 the time his job is to make love to you the way you want and to hell with whatever positions he prefers - it's not his night. Tell him what you want those nights, you described it pretty well!
> 
> The other 1/2 the time it is your turn to put out for him which means you are concentrating on what he wants and may not get there yourself. But that's OK, because tomorrow is YOUR turn.


I think this is very reasonable and fair. I am totally fine with taking turns and having his and her nights. I brought this up, and didn't get much feedback. I will have to push it more. 

The main issue though, is he is wanting me to do things I'm not comfortable doing at this time. And instead of encouraging me to slowly warm up to the ideas, he is pouting, and making me feel not good enough. I don't have a solution for this. :scratchhead: Either way one of us is going to be unhappy.


----------



## uhtred

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He is not behaving well. He should only be asking for new things if he is already doing all he can to make you happy. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> I think this is very reasonable and fair. I am totally fine with taking turns and having his and her nights. I brought this up, and didn't get much feedback. I will have to push it more.
> 
> The main issue though, is he is wanting me to do things I'm not comfortable doing at this time. And instead of encouraging me to slowly warm up to the ideas, he is pouting, and making me feel not good enough. I don't have a solution for this. :scratchhead: Either way one of us is going to be unhappy.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



uhtred said:


> He is not behaving well. He should only be asking for new things if he is already doing all he can to make you happy.


He thinks he is. But I don't feel satisfied or happy. He says my orgasms are much stronger and better than his/guys in general so I should be putting extra effort in to make the journey extra special for him. Sounds like a tit for tat kind of thing. I don't want all our sexual encounters to be a transaction. You did xyz so now I have to do abc... I want sex to be fun for both of us, and I really do want to make him happy. 

But he's put it in such a way now that if I don't use dirty words, touch myself while he watches, give him a lap dance, wear lingerie every time, etc, etc, then somehow I'm the mean prudish wife that is being selfish and doesn't care about his wants/feelings at all.

I just can't take his critical way of asking for things. It's a bad cycle of him complaining, me feeling unattractive and shy, and him complaining more. I just found a post about the same thing that I wrote back in April! We just keep going round and round!


----------



## uhtred

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

I'm really sorry to hear that. 

Sadly you cannot make a selfish lover into an unselfish one. (As I know full well from experience). 

If someone has a true desire to please, then I think there are many ways to work things out. If he honestly enjoyed pleasing you and did his best for you, I expect you would be happy to sometimes play to his fantasies / desires. You would both be happy. 

If he doesn't really want to please you, then I don't see much that you can do. 

I wish I had a helpful suggestion, but I don't. You have my sympathy - its miserable living with someone who doesn't care about your happiness / pleasure. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> He thinks he is. But I don't feel satisfied or happy. He says my orgasms are much stronger and better than his/guys in general so I should be putting extra effort in to make the journey extra special for him. Sounds like a tit for tat kind of thing. I don't want all our sexual encounters to be a transaction. You did xyz so now I have to do abc... I want sex to be fun for both of us, and I really do want to make him happy.
> 
> But he's put it in such a way now that if I don't use dirty words, touch myself while he watches, give him a lap dance, wear lingerie every time, etc, etc, then somehow I'm the mean prudish wife that is being selfish and doesn't care about his wants/feelings at all.
> 
> I just can't take his critical way of asking for things. It's a bad cycle of him complaining, me feeling unattractive and shy, and him complaining more. I just found a post about the same thing that I wrote back in April! We just keep going round and round!


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

He does try to please me. He almost always gets me to orgasm, and he asks for stuff he can do to make things better. He wants it to be good for me too.

We like sex two very different ways. He wants it rough and dirty. I want slow and passionate. His way makes me uncomfortable, and my way is boring to him. I think his and her days would help with this part.

It's just his childish pouting that really irritates me if I say no. I KNOW I need to stop saying no, but his horrible attitude is not going to help me get over it. I need encouragement, patience, and love, not foot stomping and guilt trips.


----------



## Lila

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

@CuriousWife, remind me....have you two consider counseling with a sex therapist? If you haven't, then I would find one pronto. 

I know you've been told this before, but you two are sexually incompatible. Your issues will get worse unless you two can find a middle ground. Would you be willing to meet some of his expectations? Would he be willing to drop some of his?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



Lila said:


> @CuriousWife, remind me....have you two consider counseling with a sex therapist? If you haven't, then I would find one pronto.
> 
> I know you've been told this before, but you two are sexually incompatible. Your issues will get worse unless you two can find a middle ground. Would you be willing to meet some of his expectations? Would he be willing to drop some of his?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


We met with a sex therapist for a year. Things did get a lot better afterwards, and things have been pretty good since then. But have plummeted back down hill again recently. 

We are still a lot better off than we used to be. Mostly just frustrated with each other right now. I think more discussion about expectations are in order. 

We would consider going back to the counselor if we feel we need to. The issue with that was that she was so differently morally than we are. Her ideas were eh, but I do think it helped to open our communication, which we used to work things out ourselves. So really, communication and compromise is key.


----------



## Lila

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> We met with a sex therapist for a year. Things did get a lot better afterwards, and things have been pretty good since then. But have plummeted back down hill again recently.
> 
> We are still a lot better off than we used to be. Mostly just frustrated with each other right now. I think more discussion about expectations are in order.
> 
> We would consider going back to the counselor if we feel we need to. The issue with that was that she was so differently morally than we are. Her ideas were eh, but I do think it helped to open our communication, which we used to work things out ourselves. So really, communication and compromise is key.


It's great to hear you have experience with a sex therapist and that your situation improved some with your initial therapist. I think that you should try finding a different therapist. One that lines up with your moral views. I think it's worth it even if you only see him/her for a once a quarter or every other month 'check in'. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Orgasm does not imply good sex. (something I wish my wife understood). Its necessary but not sufficient. Is he willing to do the sort of lovemaking that you enjoy? 

Is he willing to do his / hers days? He would really have to put in the effort on "hers" days, just as you would have to really try for him.

Is there enough overlap to have a significant number of "both" days?




TheCuriousWife said:


> He does try to please me. He almost always gets me to orgasm, and he asks for stuff he can do to make things better. He wants it to be good for me too.
> 
> We like sex two very different ways. He wants it rough and dirty. I want slow and passionate. His way makes me uncomfortable, and my way is boring to him. I think his and her days would help with this part.
> 
> It's just his childish pouting that really irritates me if I say no. I KNOW I need to stop saying no, but his horrible attitude is not going to help me get over it. I need encouragement, patience, and love, not foot stomping and guilt trips.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

We've done more talking. I've told him how it makes me feel. And he told me when I tell him no that it makes him feel like I don't care about his feelings.

We ran out of time. (He was on break.) But I think I've come up with a suitable way to move past this if he is willing to try. If he would just pick one thing at a time that we can move towards. Rather than ask for multiple things every single day. And then be gentle and slow about it I would be much more willing to open up. Such as keeping the lights dim, and maybe he guiding my hands to show me what he wants. I think they are pretty simple requests until I get up enough confidence to do things on my own. Much better than stark daylight and him reclining back and staring at me while he demands I "perform." Ugh. 

This in conjunction with his and hers days, where I can have breaks with no pressure then perhaps we will get somewhere. Because obviously what we are currently doing isn't working.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Things are better now guys. The situation has been diffused, and we are both willing to work on things. Plus we had some great make up sex... He says we should fight everyday. 


It all goes back to communication. If we had communicated better before it blew up into a big ordeal this would have been over much quicker. But it is what it is. At least we've talked about things, and I didn't cry like a baby. Discussions go much better when you are snuggling together in bed. It sounds kind of silly, but we try to make a habit of voicing concerns as we are holding each other. It doesn't feel as critical, and there is a overall feeling of love when you are touching. I highly recommend it. Even if you are just hugging or holding hands while you discuss. 

He apologized for being a jerk, and promised to try to make the bedroom a safe space. He can be awfully blunt, and I am awfully sensitive. Which makes for lots of hurt feelings. 

Neither of us can understand how some couples can fight everyday. We are both absolutely miserable when we aren't getting along. I get so upset I make myself physically sick and can't eat. Of course we are literally best friends and do everything together. We have the same hobbies, the same friends, we go grocery shopping together, etc. I don't think most people spend that much time with their spouse. No one I know does.


----------



## badsanta

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> Also he is wanting ideas for what could make sex better for me or turn me on, and I really don't have any clue. So ladies, what do you like your husband to do? What gets your motor going?


Hi @TheCuriousWife I apologize for never really reading your thread as it is sooooo looooong! But I just glanced and always enjoyed reading good news from your last post. 

As for my comment here, I don't think I can offer you any obvious advice on what gets your motor going, but I will expand on this question from a husband's point of view. It can be extremely frustrating as a husband to not really get any guidance on how to please your wife. Excuse the pun of my username here, but it is just like having no idea what to buy someone for Christmas. You shop and shop and feel frustrated. You find something you think will make a great gift, only to see it set aside and never used. Needless to say it will make one reluctant to search for another gift and try and make you happy. 

I can not stress how important it is that you actually try to spend some time reflecting and perhaps create a little sexual fantasy, and allow him to help you with it. Try to find something that might make you "curious" about how a particular sensation might feel. Sexual "curiosity" is the birthplace of a spontaneous libido that can build up a great deal of sexual energy before you even get into the bedroom. So you need to explore topics in your mind and see if anything sparks a tiny bit of erotic curiosity. 

The best way to try to learn what these things might be would be to visit an online store that sells sexual novelties such as the "sexual wellness" section of Amazon (yes you will have to click on something and tell Amazon that you don't mind seeing racy items). Explore a few categories, and THEN read some product reviews. Many people on Amazon go into great detail sharing their experiences with all types of things and play, and it is likely a very safe place to read these things because you are not actively interacting with the people that wrote the reviews (although you may want to turn off your browsing history so that Amazon does not store history on everything you looked at with your family, so log out if you want to view anonymously). 

My favorite thing to do on Amazon for creative ideas is look through the "customers also purchased" section of what things go along with an adult novelty. For example there was some sexy lingerie and other customers were buying crockpots and wax to go with it. Took me a while to put that one together that they were likely waxing their legs or something, but my point is that this type of source has a wealth of things for you to explore. Spend some time going through things until something sparks your fancy. Enjoy being curious, and do not be ashamed to share what you discovered with your husband and mention you would like to try it. 

In my opinion this is an area of everyone sexuality where you will reap what you sew. You have to be the one to put in the time needed to explore your own reactions to different ideas and things, and then spend time enjoying being curious about something. The key part of that is "spending the time to enjoy being curious" as it sets everything in your mind in place to really enjoy trying something new once the opportunity arises.

Some women strongly advise self exploring with any new idea before taking it into the bedroom with your husband. This is so you can make sure something works OK and that your body responds to it. Sometimes great ideas that we are very curious about turn out to be disappointing in reality once it is tried. So these women feel it is important to protect their husbands from these disappointments and only take a new idea into the bedroom with him once they know it will be a sure thing.

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

Popping in. I'm not here very often anymore. I lurk occasionally, but honestly our sex life has reached a level of "normalcy" so I don't feel I need to keep coming back for advice all the time like I used to. Although I do miss chatting with you guys. 

Things have been pretty good. We settled into an agreeable routine, that we are both happy with. We have also both been going to the gym for several months now. I'm not sure if it has done anything for me, but husband is now even more fit/sexy. That lucky bug. I haven't dropped a pound, but I like to think I am more toned/muscular. lol. I was secretly hoping the lifting would help boost his testosterone naturally, but no such luck. I've also started taking vitamins, in an effort to be more healthy, since that is something I frequently struggle with. (Of course much good it did, we both have colds right now. lol)

Our only small rift right now is that I recently started a new birth control. Unfortunately I think it has boosted my libido. :surprise: 

For many months now my libido had dropped into what I consider a normal range. It made me a little sad because I would have occasional trouble getting aroused/into the moment. But it certainly made sex less pressured for the both of us, resulting in overall a healthy sex life that we both enjoyed. Now it has returned, and I guess I have began getting grabby again, and my enthusiasm is not shared by husband. He sat me down yesterday and made it clear that I need to reign myself in. He says we have a good thing going, and if I start getting sex crazed again he is going to feel pressured again, and I am going to get rejected again. He says I don't think rationally when my drive is high, and I get moody and sensitive. He thinks sex feels a lot better if we wait 5 - 7 days, but he is willing 2 or 3 times a week because I can't wait that long. Which has been working out okay, compromise. He again restated that his max is 3 times a week, and that things are not going to change even though I feel more horny. He went as far as you say that maybe I should go back on my old BC. :/ I asked him if he really wanted me to suppress who I am, to which he just said that he was just trying to keep me from setting myself up for disappointment again. Boo. Hiss. 

I understand what he means, but it still hurts a little. We had gotten past all this, but I know it was just because my drive dropped and I stopped pestering. Which is really for the best because he can not fake/make his body excited, nor do I want him to. But he is very guarded and will not even allow himself a chance to be responsive. If we are snuggling on the couch he will squirm away if I try to do any sort of petting. Yesterday he was getting dressed and I came up behind him and reached around for a hug. As soon as my hands dropped to his lower stomach he pulled away from me. I tried to explain to him that I wasn't trying to get him into bed with me. I was just needing something intimate, but nope. We had sex the day before so any sort of sexual contact is completely off limits.

We had to use condoms for a month and then had no sex for a week due to medicine/illness and switching birth controls, and finally the time was up. We were visiting his family like we do every week, and after a couple hours I leaned over and whispered something to the effect of let's get out of here and go have some fun. To which he just said "in a bit." Silly little things like me looking at him lustfully while at the gym or when he is getting out of the shower are not received well. 

I can deal with sex only a couple times a week. I really can. But sometimes I still get depressed that he flat out denies/rejects any sexual advances if it's not "scheduled sex time." We are married adults, and sometimes I just want to let my hands wander, or kiss without him clamming up, dang it. I can't help but think how so many guys would love the attention, he just feels bombarded or that I am trapping him. That is way worse than being rejected for sex.


----------



## karole

*Re: LD Husband Journal*

LD, are you absolutely positive you want to stay in this marriage like it is now for the rest of your life? If you do, that is okay.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



karole said:


> LD, are you absolutely positive you want to stay in this marriage like it is now for the rest of your life? If you do, that is okay.


Yes. Despite him not always liking my advances, the sex it's self isn't bad and the rest of the marriage is near perfect. 

I get upset and like to vent when he isn't as sexual as I am, but thankfully it isn't all doom and gloom. He does try to keep me satisfied for the most part, I just have to be careful to not overwhelm him. He eventually comes around if I tone it down a bit. Although he pulled away yesterday, he was lightly sexting me today. 

He has made his line in the sand. Absolutely no sexual intimacy two days in a row. While I think the "rule" is ridiculous he doesn't waver or try to change the goal posts. It is me who tries to push my limits and gets disappointed when I get the same reaction that I have always gotten. He has set his boundaries and the ball is in my court to decide if I am willing to accept that and be okay with it or not. 

Remember in his perfect world sex would be weekly. So he is compromising as am I. Although it still makes me sad that I can't grope my husband anytime I want, or that I will never get to experience evening and morning sex. It is not something that I feel is worth throwing away the marriage for. 

Doesn't mean that I never get upset about it. But life is imperfect. We aren't 100% happy with anything. I am okay with that.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: LD Husband Journal*



TheCuriousWife said:


> He sat me down yesterday and made it clear that I need to reign myself in. He says we have a good thing going, and if I start getting sex crazed again he is going to feel pressured again, and I am going to get rejected again.


Right, you getting rejected is your own fault. What kind of garbage is that? 



> Which has been working out okay, compromise. He again restated that his max is 3 times a week, and that things are not going to change even though I feel more horny. He went as far as you say that maybe I should go back on my old BC. :/ I asked him if he really wanted me to suppress who I am, to which he just said that he was just trying to keep me from setting myself up for disappointment again. Boo. Hiss.


Once again, he's putting the responsibility on you for his own behavior. "It's your fault you get rejected, it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm selfish and won't meet your needs." He married you, and swore an oath to God, no one forced him to. He's thus responsible for meeting your needs. He needs to grow a pair of nuts and step up.



> We are married adults, and sometimes I just want to let my hands wander, or kiss without him clamming up, dang it. I can't help but think how so many guys would love the attention, he just feels bombarded or that I am trapping him. That is way worse than being rejected for sex.


Yeah, I'm sorry :/ That must be very difficult to deal with.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

Hey all!

I'm a roller coaster of emotion today. I went back and skimmed the last two years of this thread. I am actually surprised how far we have come. Although the same issues still pop up ocassionally, I feel like husband is maturing over time. He helps a lot more around the house, is sweet to me, doesn't prioritize his friends over me anymore, etc. Sexual communication is improved and more open. Such as in the past he "forbid" me to purchase a vibrator and when I got one anyway he was intimidated and wouldn't use it, now it is a normal part of our play. 

I still get mixed signals and he still rejects me occasionally. But usually he realizes he is doing it shortly after and tries to make amends. I think he is at least conscious of how his actions make me feel (most of the time) and he tries to not have a knee jerk reaction. Such as a couple nights ago while we are falling asleep I absentmindedly put my hand on his package. He pulled away and then instantly said sorry and put my hand back. We still have ups and down, but I feel they are handled better. After week of no sex because of my period. Husband showed no interest last night when I said I was "clean and horny." I woke up in a bad mood.

Now he is sexting me telling me how he can't wait to get home, etc, and telling me we should try having sex every day this week. Of course I know he won't follow through with all that. But it is nice to see some enthusiasm/good intentions. He has started doing spoil your wife days randomly where he cleans, cooks dinner, gives me a massage, and makes the sex focused on me. 

We still need to work on more intimacy/kissing/flirting outside of the bedroom and he still doesn't always have the reaction I want when I make a pass. But gosh I love him. Our sex life might not be fully satisfying but he is thoughtful, makes me laugh, and is genuinely a good person. We don't have any of the other problems many married couples have. He doesn't drink, smoke, look at porn, or ever raise his voice at me. He is a hard worker, good with money, and is very respectful to others. Not to mention he is very physically fit, healthy, and smoking hot. Coming from 7 days of no sex usually I am about to climb the walls. But just him having a good attitude, realizing he hurt my feelings yesterday, and actually trying to do better is all I really want.


----------



## Faithful Wife

You guys are going to make it! Congrats on the excellent update


----------



## TheCuriousWife

Thanks Faithful Wife. I know the odds were stacked against us, but we are going to be okay. 

When he mentioned having sex everyday this week he seemed sincere. He said he was tired of being stuck in a rut and having these unwritten rules about me not being allowed to flirt or touch him two days in a row. He said he just doesn't think about sex all day, and it is switched off brain, so he just shuts me out if I attempt something when he gets home. He is going to make a conscious effort to try to think about sex throughout the day so he is more receptive to me. He thinks if we do it everyday this week it will break the cycle of him not considering it two days in a row. I told him that it was hormones talking and that after we had sex he will forget, and that I was scared to initiate the next day. He told me to hold him to it. So we shall see. We had somewhere to be last night before we had alone time, but we groped and made out every chance we got and by the time we got home we were ripping each others clothes off. Rawr.

Of course after sex he was like "did I really say every day?" lol Yep buddy, and I will push it. He gave me permission so he has no one to blame but himself. :grin2:

ETA: He also mentioned wanting to try some new things this week such as tying/blindfolding. He is acting like he just came up with this idea all on his own although I have asked/tried this in the past and he totally would not let me. I even still have the blindfold. Oh well. He can think it is his idea if that makes him more open to it. lol. He is slowly relaxing. He is much more open to the vibrator now which is great. If I am having trouble getting there, or he finishes before me he will instantly reach for it and make sure the job is done. He doesn't see it as a personal attack on his ego anymore, which takes some of the pressure off both of us. It also allows more fun for me when quickies are involved.


----------



## Faithful Wife

That is actually incredible progress from where things began. It's so hopeful! And sounds so fun, making out and groping all the time even!!

Girl....your love for this man is transforming him. I have no doubt his low T is a very big factor in his lack of thinking about sex and being generally LD...so for him to work to deliberately push himself against it and train his brain and body to be more sexual...that's just soooooo much further than most naturally LD people ever come. And he's clearly doing this because he loves you and can see you are fun and sexy and deserve a fun sexy sex life!!

Awwwwwwwwww


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## TheCuriousWife

Yes I know he loves me, and he is trying. 

That said we definitely don't make out and grope everyday. But we are working on it. So far so good. Two days in a row and fun planned for tonight. His friend wanted to come over this weekend and he gave him some excuse why we were busy. Husband didn't want a visit to interrupt our sexy time. Big progress to prioritize sex over friends. 

He was so proud of himself yesterday for having sex two days in a row. lol. I told him not to get too excited he still had 5 days left. But he is very happy that he has broken that "invisible barrier". I think he had some physiological hang ups about him getting ED if we tried it too soon. It definitely was harder to get things working right, but not impossible. Just need to get creative and turn up the heat.

I decided to order some new lingerie yesterday to surprise him. Then a couple hours later he was like "you know we should buy some new lingerie..." "already in the mail" "man you're good" haha. At least we are on the same page.

He has already warned me that I shouldn't always expect daily sex after this, but at least he will know he can do it, and that he can be flexible to my needs. Maybe next we will have to try for twice in one day...


----------



## BioFury

TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes I know he loves me, and he is trying.
> 
> That said we definitely don't make out and grope everyday. But we are working on it. So far so good. Two days in a row and fun planned for tonight. His friend wanted to come over this weekend and he gave him some excuse why we were busy. Husband didn't want a visit to interrupt our sexy time. Big progress to prioritize sex over friends.
> 
> He was so proud of himself yesterday for having sex two days in a row. lol. I told him not to get too excited he still had 5 days left. But he is very happy that he has broken that "invisible barrier". I think he had some physiological hang ups about him getting ED if we tried it too soon. It definitely was harder to get things working right, but not impossible. Just need to get creative and turn up the heat.
> 
> I decided to order some new lingerie yesterday to surprise him. Then a couple hours later he was like "you know we should buy some new lingerie..." "already in the mail" "man you're good" haha. At least we are on the same page.
> 
> He has already warned me that I shouldn't always expect daily sex after this, but at least he will know he can do it, and that he can be flexible to my needs. Maybe next we will have to try for twice in one day...


I'm happy things are going well  A lot is possible when dealing with someone who genuinely wants to do the right thing.

I hope things continue to improve for you


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

This thread is 4 years old and over 100 pages long so I couldn't read it and only saw the last 2 pages or so.

Did you marry an Amish guy?


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## TheCuriousWife

@notmyrealname4

Yes. I think perhaps he sees sex as boring and he asks for these requests to help turn him on. Just a guess though.

I am happy in my marriage and don't have any current plans of going anywhere. We are doing better than ever. Kids are still a touchy subject. Husband comes from a big family, is great with kids, and has always wanted kids. He is starting to really want them. Most of our friends and his siblings are having kids now. I was an only child, and I don't like kids, although I do want some, some day. We have agreed he will be the primary caretaker. I am guessing we will have kids in the next couple years if I get my health stuff in order.

----------------------------------------

We did end of having sex 6 days in a row. So he kept good on his word! It was a lot of fun.

In other news. He had a minor health scare recently, and symptoms are pointing towards a hormone imbalance... He is going for more blood work this week. The doctor was especially interested because they are looking at the same things they looked at a couple years ago. Coincidence? 

After results are in, if he still shows normal hormones they are recommending he go to a endocrinologist to dig deeper and figure out what is going on. Interesting that he is having completely non sex related issues and it is still pointing to some sort of testosterone/prolactin problem. I had no part of him going to the doctor, so if they happen to decide he does need to take testosterone and it helps the sex related problems as well it will be a welcome surprise.


----------



## CharlieParker

TheCuriousWife said:


> Husband comes from a big family, is great with kids, and has always wanted kids. He is starting to really want them. Most of our friends and his siblings are having kids now. I was an only child, and I don't like kids, although I do want some, some day. We have agreed he will be the primary caretaker. I am guessing we will have kids in the next couple years if I get my health stuff in order.


Danger Will Robinson! You don't have to have kids because of peer pressure or because it's expected and what you do. BTDT, well done thinking about it and not done kids, and 20 years later life without kids is OK.


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## uhtred

Having children is the most important decision of your life. It can never be undone, and it will dramatically affect the entire rest of your life. Please, do not make it casually. 

Think very carefully. Learn. Spend time with children. Maybe take in a foster care shelter child. Be sure about it - more sure than you have ever been of anything else in your life. 

Some people are extremely happy with children. Others have ruined their lives with children. 







TheCuriousWife said:


> @notmyrealname4
> 
> Yes. I think perhaps he sees sex as boring and he asks for these requests to help turn him on. Just a guess though.
> 
> I am happy in my marriage and don't have any current plans of going anywhere. We are doing better than ever. Kids are still a touchy subject. Husband comes from a big family, is great with kids, and has always wanted kids. He is starting to really want them. Most of our friends and his siblings are having kids now. I was an only child, and I don't like kids, although I do want some, some day. We have agreed he will be the primary caretaker. I am guessing we will have kids in the next couple years if I get my health stuff in order.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> We did end of having sex 6 days in a row. So he kept good on his word! It was a lot of fun.
> 
> In other news. He had a minor health scare recently, and symptoms are pointing towards a hormone imbalance... He is going for more blood work this week. The doctor was especially interested because they are looking at the same things they looked at a couple years ago. Coincidence?
> 
> After results are in, if he still shows normal hormones they are recommending he go to a endocrinologist to dig deeper and figure out what is going on. Interesting that he is having completely non sex related issues and it is still pointing to some sort of testosterone/prolactin problem. I had no part of him going to the doctor, so if they happen to decide he does need to take testosterone and it helps the sex related problems as well it will be a welcome surprise.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

Never fear guys! I DO want children. I'm just not ready for them today. We have some things to get in order before children come along. 

Doctor called. Not all the results are in but husband has low FSH. Testosterone is not back yet but they are expecting it to come back low. We have been referred to an endocrinologist.


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## TheCuriousWife

Oddly his testosterone is slightly HIGHER than it was a couple years ago. 459. (Which I still think is low for a man in his mid twenties) Anyway, appointment with Endocrinologist is planned. I'm going to guess they will rule out pituitary tumors, and put him on HCG, but we'll see. 

We had such a good time yesterday. Got back from the gym and he let me give him a full body massage. Progressed into a good old fashioned necking session on the couch. Which then turned into a lusty need it now kind of time. It was good for both of us. He opened up enough to let me get him aroused without pressure, and I didn't let being self conscious about not showering stop the moment. It was spur of the moment fun, which we definitely need more of.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

FINALLY got into our endocrinologist appointment (they were booked for months). She said his test IS low for a man in his twenties and it is likely caused from the low FSH. The problem being she doesn't want to start him on any T since we want children in the next few years. He is getting more blood work to recheck the FSH. If it is low again they will do an MRI to look for pituitary tumors. If it comes back good, we will do nothing for now and just continue to monitor, unless he starts having more symptoms.

I purchased handcuffs a few months ago but he was never interested in using them. I am happy to say he finally dug them out yesterday and used them on me. He still isn't completely open to letting me use them on him, but I think I can sway him.  The vibrator is a normal part of our sex life now. My desired frequency is still higher than his, but I am happy that sex is more relaxed and fun.


----------



## fightforher

Ooh .. handcuffs! Did you purchase the fur covered type so that they don't scratch the bed post? Ha Ha

Have lots of fun. You deserve it.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

fightforher said:


> Ooh .. handcuffs! Did you purchase the fur covered type so that they don't scratch the bed post? Ha Ha
> 
> Have lots of fun. You deserve it.


Well they are pretty soft core handcuffs. Made out of a stretchy material. They won't actually keep anyone in, lol. More of an illusion. But the head board I got for my birthday last year, (specifically picked with sex in mind) worked perfectly to hook them too. 

Husband has to very very slowly be introduced to new things. But perhaps we will upgrade to a new pair in the future.

He recently used the vibrator on me while having intercourse for the first time, and let me use it on him for a bit. Later he made the comment that our current vibrator of choice isn't ideal for using during sex so perhaps we should pick out a new one. That is a lot of progress for the man I had to fight with for years to purchase the first toy. He is coming around, just have to take things slow. If I am patient he realizes that new stuff is fun.


----------



## fightforher

Oh la la .. progress indeed. Pretty soon you will have a vibrator for every occasion.


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## TheCuriousWife

notmyrealname4 said:


> How did it go Curious? Did your hubs' blood work show anything definitive with regards to the low FSH?


Yes! His FSH is half of the minimum. The doctor thinks he has a tumor and scheduled an MRI. But it's on hold because insurance keeps denying it. He doesn't fit the "norm" for a tumor since he is 20-somthing and isn't having enough symptoms currently. It is very frustrating and the doctor has been trying to reason with them for over a month. We are getting no where. The US health care system is so messed up!


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## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## fightforher

TheCuriousWife said:


> Yes! His FSH is half of the minimum. The doctor thinks he has a tumor and scheduled an MRI. But it's on hold because insurance keeps denying it. He doesn't fit the "norm" for a tumor since he is 20-somthing and isn't having enough symptoms currently. It is very frustrating and the doctor has been trying to reason with them for over a month. We are getting no where. The US health care system is so messed up!


Any progress??? Still talking to insurance companies??

Best of luck .. sorry that it sucks.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

Life has been hard.

I've been sick at least 3 times since Christmas. Both types of flu, a cold, and just general lung problems. I feel so crappy all the time. I've recently started taking vitamins again and I hope that will help my immune system. I'm sure it is mostly stress caused.

We are still renovating our house and deadlines are quickly approaching. We work on it everyday until bedtime. Husband has also been working 10 hour days for the past month. So between being tired, overworked, and sick we are both tons of fun. His sister also got physically attacked by her husband and we've been dealing with that. Just stress all around.

I keep telling myself it is just a season, but man does it suck. I just want it over with. Sigh.

Obviously sex is down sliding right now too. Frequency has dropped a lot in the past several months. But old things we used to fight about are coming back up as well. Husband made a comment along the lines of I owe him a blow job because sex is all about me, and how it takes a "long" 45 minutes. When I questioned it he gave me these reasons: we always have vanilla sex, I don't do anything for him, he has to thrust for 20+ minutes, etc. 

I told him a owe him nothing. I give him blow jobs because I love him and I want to make him happy. Just like he should reciprocate to me! Why does sex always have to be a transaction with him? Does he want a gold star because I take longer than 5 minutes to orgasm? We even use the vibrator now if things aren't happening, and I can orgasm in literally a minute or two with that. I thrust, I kiss, I touch, he always has a wonderful orgasm. I don't know what the heck he wants. I'm not a sex kitten. 

I thought we were past all this. He later apologized and said he was kidding about me owing him. But I know he wasn't. He was being truthful and it just slipped out before he could stop himself. 

Two weeks ago he made a comment of I don't want to have sex if you aren't going to be super into it. Geez. I've been sick all day and can't breath. Sure hope I don't inconvenience you when I'm not super sexy and ready to hang from the chandelier...


We are commonly going a week or more without sex OR kissing. I'll even bring it up or ask and he will just tell me "soon." I know he is tired and stressed. So am I. But his attitude is really getting to me again. It is bringing up all those old hurts which had healed. I don't feel like having sex ever right now.


----------



## MEM2020

Mismatched T levels are truly a curse. From what you write - he does love you. 

Desire is every bit as volatile and unpredictable as it is magical. Be patient and let it come back. It will. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Life has been hard.
> 
> I've been sick at least 3 times since Christmas. Both types of flu, a cold, and just general lung problems. I feel so crappy all the time. I've recently started taking vitamins again and I hope that will help my immune system. I'm sure it is mostly stress caused.
> 
> We are still renovating our house and deadlines are quickly approaching. We work on it everyday until bedtime. Husband has also been working 10 hour days for the past month. So between being tired, overworked, and sick we are both tons of fun. His sister also got physically attacked by her husband and we've been dealing with that. Just stress all around.
> 
> I keep telling myself it is just a season, but man does it suck. I just want it over with. Sigh.
> 
> Obviously sex is down sliding right now too. Frequency has dropped a lot in the past several months. But old things we used to fight about are coming back up as well. Husband made a comment along the lines of I owe him a blow job because sex is all about me, and how it takes a "long" 45 minutes. When I questioned it he gave me these reasons: we always have vanilla sex, I don't do anything for him, he has to thrust for 20+ minutes, etc.
> 
> I told him a owe him nothing. I give him blow jobs because I love him and I want to make him happy. Just like he should reciprocate to me! Why does sex always have to be a transaction with him? Does he want a gold star because I take longer than 5 minutes to orgasm? We even use the vibrator now if things aren't happening, and I can orgasm in literally a minute or two with that. I thrust, I kiss, I touch, he always has a wonderful orgasm. I don't know what the heck he wants. I'm not a sex kitten.
> 
> I thought we were past all this. He later apologized and said he was kidding about me owing him. But I know he wasn't. He was being truthful and it just slipped out before he could stop himself.
> 
> Two weeks ago he made a comment of I don't want to have sex if you aren't going to be super into it. Geez. I've been sick all day and can't breath. Sure hope I don't inconvenience you when I'm not super sexy and ready to hang from the chandelier...
> 
> 
> We are commonly going a week or more without sex OR kissing. I'll even bring it up or ask and he will just tell me "soon." I know he is tired and stressed. So am I. But his attitude is really getting to me again. It is bringing up all those old hurts which had healed. I don't feel like having sex ever right now.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

I know it will. I know the sex is lacking and we are bickering because we are overworked and stressed but it still doesn't keep it from hurting.

I know I am overly sensitive about it too. It doesn't take much to fall back down the rabbit hole of rejection/old hurt. 

He did start out jokingly about me owing him a blow job. But then he started digging farther and mentioning the length of time, and how he felt sex was always for me and about me. I knew I wasn't going to like where the conversation was going so I asked him to please stop talking about it because it was making me mad but he just wouldn't let it go. I shushed him several times and then he complained that I am too sensitive about sex. Not exactly the optimal conversation before he was supposed to receive a blow job... Then he turned me down saying, "I don't want you to feel like you owe me anything." I'm the one who was upset and still I was the one rejected. :scratchhead: He is always the gate keeper. Then we proceeded to pretty much ignore each other for a day until he apologized. 

I don't feel like the argument is over. He apologized for saying I owed him. But that doesn't take back the fact that he still thinks sex is a chore that he performs for my benefit. I just don't understand where he gets that from. I know there are thousands of men out there that would kill for their wives to even have half hearted sex with them. Why does my husband think it's a chore when I am always ready/willing/excited about it. I never get to be seduced, or romanticized, or persuaded into sex. He just always expects I am willing whenever he decides he is ready. If I am not in the mood he won't even try, he will just back off and wait for an easier time. 

His initiation is usually him dry humping me while I'm laying on the bed or grinding against me while I cook/clean, or grabbing my boobs. Not exactly mr. charming. It used to be every 4 days like clockwork I could expect he would be horny and make some sort of move. Now a week is common. It's been over a week right now and not a peep. I am relieved because I really don't feel like having sex. But at the same time I'm kind of hurt that he doesn't seem to crave/miss it at all... I used to want sex daily, but I compromised with every other day. He enjoyed it much more every 3 days, then life got busy and I was okay occasionally with 4 days. I craved more but I get that we are tired. A week seriously starts me on a spiral of anger and self doubt. I get crazy. I analyze everything and think, well if we skipped (fill in the blank) we would have time for sex. He must love ___ more than me. 

It just goes back to us being different... but it is painful that sex is the first thing to go when life gets hard. I want to be wrapped in his arms and use intimacy to pull us together and be strong when times are tough. He sees sex as just more work to do in his already busy schedule. It's hard to enjoy when I feel like I am just another time clock he has to punch or else he will face my wrath. 

Sorry for being a debbie downer. I'm just frustrated and needed to let it out.


----------



## PieceOfSky

Maybe you should have a talk with him about the shift/trend/step-backward you have vented a bit about here. Perhaps share with him what scares you or saddens or frustrates you about it, and ask him how he feels about it. And maybe you two would discover the negative feelings you both have about the present state are rooted in the love you truly share and don’t want to lose.

I haven’t visited your thread for a very long time, but a reading of the last page or so sounded (mostly) much more positive than what I recall.

Even though he jokingly said you owed him, and (perhaps) it seems to you that the truth behind it is his regrettable “transactional” perspective, I wonder what really underlies that in his brain — if not a feeling of having been missing out on something from you that he wants (which is to say, he wants you, and misses what he feels he gets from you when you lovingly supply.) I’m not saying to ignore it if it seems childish or too transactional for your tastes. But, I am pointing out that whatever the source of his complaint, perhaps at its core there is a desire to be connected to you.

Just a thought.


----------



## CharlieParker

Life happens and can, at times, make things challenging for even well matched couples. Stress and/or sleep deficiency can wreak havoc on T levels. Not an excuse but something to keep in mind, but yeah it still sucks.

Feel better soon.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

Thanks for that PieceOfSky, overall things have gotten a lot better over the years. This is just a road bump really.

But yes we definitely need to talk. It is getting ridiculous. He really hasn't spoken to me in several days except yesterday he did ask me if I wanted to have sex. Oh yes of course honey, you haven't looked at or spoken to me in days but I'm so in the mood.  

I'm sure he just thinks I'm being irrational because I haven't have sex in a while. He always thinks I'm just upset about the frequency and if we have sex it will fix everything and I'll stop being sensitive. 

He is being so cold though. I'm not even sure why HE is upset. I haven't been mean, or said anything about sex since our argument on Friday. Sunday he apologized about the joke and I didn't feel like he understood the issue at all but he seemed okay and pretty chipper. Then Monday he started ignoring me again. He isn't even saying good morning, bye, or goodnight. If I start any conversation he gives me one word answers. Yesterday I fixed dinner, he did his own thing all evening and then came to bed, turned off the light, and rolled over away from me without a word. We usually spoon/are entangled so I was quite hurt, but he was out in minutes. The only response I got was in the middle of the night I snuggled up against his back and he rolled over and took my hand. He is an extremely hard sleeper though so I don't think he even knows he did it. Just his natural reaction.

I'm confused why he is acting like this to me. :scratchhead: I should have spoke up yesterday but he was giving off the "leave me alone" vibe and I was trying to give him his space. But this has gone on far long enough.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

CharlieParker said:


> Life happens and can, at times, make things challenging for even well matched couples. Stress and/or sleep deficiency can wreak havoc on T levels. Not an excuse but something to keep in mind, but yeah it still sucks.
> 
> Feel better soon.


I know Charlie. I am trying to be sensitive to that fact that he is working HARD and is really worn out. I totally get that. Like I said I was okay backing off the frequency for a while and I really haven't brought it up or complained. I did end up giving him a blow job on Sunday after he apologized. I know his job is stressful and I don't want him to be worse off because of pent of energy. He said it was the best one he's had. 

But I am not okay with him going back to the attitude of sex is all about me and it's a chore. That is such bologna. I don't even want him to start going down that path again. It took years to dig out and I refuse to feel like that again.

Just not feeling very cherished, desired, or loved right now.  And him giving me the cold shoulder for unknown reasons is not helping either.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

Well I asked him why he was upset. At first he denied but then he basically said he was just really worn out and stressed and he just took his anger out on me. He apologized profusely and said it wasn't fair to me and that I was the one bright spot in his life right now. I know he loves me and he is just tired, he was very genuine.

I'm glad we've made up, but that doesn't change the hurtful things he said about sex over the past two weeks and I still don't feel like having sex. Now I don't know what to do. Do I just try to let it go and chalk it up to him being stressed? Give him a break this time. Or should I still gently try to explain my concerns/fears of where our sex life is heading?

No affection/intimacy towards me except maybe a brief handhold and no kissing at all for at least 9 days. When we last had sex it had already been a week without and I was getting ready to start my period. I was sick all day and he complained that he didn't want to do it if I wasn't going to be super into it. We had very bland "pity" sex. 

My love language is touch. I want to be held. I want affection and foreplay before the bedroom, I want excitement from him and passion. I don't want my husband's worn out crumbs. I'm just not sure he can give that to me right now, and I don't want to add more stress to his load. Should I just suck it up and let it be for now? I really want more, but that could be selfish me talking. Help! I need outsider opinion.


----------



## MEM2020

If you are able to separate affection from sex, it can make life a lot easier. 

For us - touch - and sex - are totally different things. It might seem odd but - when totally separated - it removes any question regarding motives. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I asked him why he was upset. At first he denied but then he basically said he was just really worn out and stressed and he just took his anger out on me. He apologized profusely and said it wasn't fair to me and that I was the one bright spot in his life right now. I know he loves me and he is just tired, he was very genuine.
> 
> I'm glad we've made up, but that doesn't change the hurtful things he said about sex over the past two weeks and I still don't feel like having sex. Now I don't know what to do. Do I just try to let it go and chalk it up to him being stressed? Give him a break this time. Or should I still gently try to explain my concerns/fears of where our sex life is heading?
> 
> No affection/intimacy towards me except maybe a brief handhold and no kissing at all for at least 9 days. When we last had sex it had already been a week without and I was getting ready to start my period. I was sick all day and he complained that he didn't want to do it if I wasn't going to be super into it. We had very bland "pity" sex.
> 
> My love language is touch. I want to be held. I want affection and foreplay before the bedroom, I want excitement from him and passion. I don't want my husband's worn out crumbs. I'm just not sure he can give that to me right now, and I don't want to add more stress to his load. Should I just suck it up and let it be for now? I really want more, but that could be selfish me talking. Help! I need outsider opinion.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

MEM2020 said:


> If you are able to separate affection from sex, it can make life a lot easier.
> 
> For us - touch - and sex - are totally different things. It might seem odd but - when totally separated - it removes any question regarding motives.


That is the problem MEM. I'm not getting either! 

I know he is tired, which is why I am fine with lower frequency of sex. But no touch at all is a killer on me. I need something, anything!

He snuggles the dang cat everyday. I've told him multiple times that I wish I was the cat. He just laughs.


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## CharlieParker

I don't know what to tell you about the crappy attitude, other than it's certainly not OK.

Life is happening majorly for us currently (so I may be projecting a bit), quality and frequency are suffering. We talk about where we are at, and why, fairly regularly. And while we're not happy we both understand that's just how it is for now and try not to stress about it.

I'd say definitely talk to him. And do not "let [intimacy] be for now", but realize it's probably not the time for "more". Rather just make it happen and don't stress if it's less than optimal. And do keep talking about your temporary situation and how/why it affects the intimacy and relationship. 

Also I am assuming it is major (reno, extra work hours, illness) but temporary stress, not just plain old everyday life, and that he is currently giving what he can.


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## CharlieParker

MEM2020 said:


> If you are able to separate affection from sex, it can make life a lot easier.
> 
> For us - touch - and sex - are totally different things. It might seem odd but - when totally separated - it removes any question regarding motives.


We get that. But we also schedule 99% of the sex to some degree. IIRC Mr CW was opposed to scheduling. So how does that separation work for you two?


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## TheCuriousWife

CharlieParker said:


> I don't know what to tell you about the crappy attitude, other than it's certainly not OK.
> 
> Life is happening majorly for us currently (so I may be projecting a bit), quality and frequency are suffering. We talk about where we are at, and why, fairly regularly. And while we're not happy we both understand that's just how it is for now and try not to stress about it.
> 
> I'd say definitely talk to him. And do not "let [intimacy] be for now", but realize it's probably not the time for "more". Rather just make it happen and don't stress if it's less than optimal. And do keep talking about your temporary situation and how/why it affects the intimacy and relationship.
> 
> Also I am assuming it is major (reno, extra work hours, illness) but temporary stress, not just plain old everyday life, and that he is currently giving what he can.


Thanks Charlie. That was my gut feeling too. It's okay if quality/frequency is down temporarily, but I think we should still talk about how it makes us feel and what we can do to get through in the meantime. 

Yes. The reno and crazy work hours are only temporary. I just don't want temporary problems to cause me to down spiral back into those old feelings of rejection. He definitely doesn't want to make me unhappy. It's just easy for him to stop trying when life gets hard/busy. Sex and/or intimacy is not natural for him and it's something he has to consciously work at. I think he just needs a soft reminder.


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## PieceOfSky

TheCuriousWife said:


> Well I asked him why he was upset. At first he denied but then he basically said he was just really worn out and stressed and he just took his anger out on me. He apologized profusely and said it wasn't fair to me and that I was the one bright spot in his life right now. I know he loves me and he is just tired, he was very genuine.
> 
> I'm glad we've made up, but that doesn't change the hurtful things he said about sex over the past two weeks and I still don't feel like having sex. Now I don't know what to do. Do I just try to let it go and chalk it up to him being stressed? Give him a break this time. Or should I still gently try to explain my concerns/fears of where our sex life is heading?
> 
> No affection/intimacy towards me except maybe a brief handhold and no kissing at all for at least 9 days. When we last had sex it had already been a week without and I was getting ready to start my period. I was sick all day and he complained that he didn't want to do it if I wasn't going to be super into it. We had very bland "pity" sex.
> 
> My love language is touch. I want to be held. I want affection and foreplay before the bedroom, I want excitement from him and passion. I don't want my husband's worn out crumbs. I'm just not sure he can give that to me right now, and I don't want to add more stress to his load. Should I just suck it up and let it be for now? I really want more, but that could be selfish me talking. Help! I need outsider opinion.



It sounds to me like your conversation was about the bad behavior on his part, and you did not let yourself be truly seen. If so, I can only imagine you will feel more and more invisible, and the time between meaningful loving touch will continue to tick away. 

What exactly are you feeling regarding selfishness? Not all selfishness is bad. Putting your needs out there to be seen and heard is sometimes necessary, in order to live authentically and give one’s relationship the best chance for success. But some of us aren’t sure if it’s morally ok to express our needs. And, even if we get past that mental hurdle, there is a really scary one left: what if the other, once made fully aware of what we hunger for, doesn’t seem to care? 

I’m not saying any of that applies to you, but, you seem to be silently feeling unloved, and not likely to reach out to him, telling him something that he could do to make you feel the distance stop growing just for the night. (Perhaps tell him, if it’s true, that spooning you as you both fell asleep would make you feel a lot less lonely for a bit).

I guess I’m saying that, imho, you are going to have to have a bigger and deeper talk about big picture trends and concerns thereof. But, in the meantime, as a short term tactic, maybe it wouldn’t hurt or be heavily dramatic to directly ask for loving simple touch, when you are feeling your most invisible and neglected (if you indeed ever feel that). Such little bids for affection, if met, might make the bigger picture conversation much easier and helpful.


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## TheCuriousWife

PieceOfSky said:


> It sounds to me like your conversation was about the bad behavior on his part, and you did not let yourself be truly seen. If so, I can only imagine you will feel more and more invisible, and the time between meaningful loving touch will continue to tick away.
> 
> What exactly are you feeling regarding selfishness? Not all selfishness is bad. Putting your needs out there to be seen and heard is sometimes necessary, in order to live authentically and give one’s relationship the best chance for success. But some of us aren’t sure if it’s morally ok to express our needs. And, even if we get past that mental hurdle, there is a really scary one left: what if the other, once made fully aware of what we hunger for, doesn’t seem to care?
> 
> I’m not saying any of that applies to you, but, you seem to be silently feeling unloved, and not likely to reach out to him, telling him something that he could do to make you feel the distance stop growing just for the night. (Perhaps tell him, if it’s true, that spooning you as you both fell asleep would make you feel a lot less lonely for a bit).
> 
> I guess I’m saying that, imho, you are going to have to have a bigger and deeper talk about big picture trends and concerns thereof. But, in the meantime, as a short term tactic, maybe it wouldn’t hurt or be heavily dramatic to directly ask for loving simple touch, when you are feeling your most invisible and neglected (if you indeed ever feel that). Such little bids for affection, if met, might make the bigger picture conversation much easier and helpful.


Our first conversation was a very limited 30 minute text over lunch break. I didn't want to get into sex discussion because I didn't feel like it could be summed up that quickly and it's best in person. Then I couldn't decide if I should even bring up my needs because he is so worn out right now.

But I did. We had a good talk last night. We both agreed that the last two years have been overall positive, but the last few months have been on a downward trend. The root of the problem is really that I don't get enough (any?) affection/foreplay/or intimacy outside the bedroom. So then I'm never super excited about sex even though I am horny 24/7. Then I have a lousy attitude and don't get super enthused. Of course he picks up on that and starts complaining or being critical and then sex is sad and boring. We are both at fault. He definitely needs to step up his pre game, but I need to stop being passive aggressive. I should communicate better and faster when there is a problem.

We also talked about how I feel that sex is only for me and that it is something he just has to power through, mostly because I am the one who has to start any flirting, touching, or initiation and if I do it at the wrong time he will reject me or it will be one of those "we can if you want to" responses. He says that isn't the case. He just doesn't think about/desire sex as often as I do. He needs to be warmed up to the idea. I will admit it is going to be hard for a man with responsive desire to try to flirt/initiate/touch more. It just doesn't occur to him at all until it's been a while and he is really horny. He wants me to remind him to flirt with me. lol. I'm not sure how that is going to work, since it really goes back to me initiating all the intimacy. He thinks if I remind him for a bit it will become a habit and he will continue on his own without my prodding. I promised to be more gentle with my desire. Kisses when he gets home, playful texts, etc. No more groping. He kind of freaks out if I come on too strong when he isn't prepared, and it is very hurtful. I know this but it's hard to back off sometimes . Hopefully if I do more subtle hinting he will pick it up from there and do more affection on days when we aren't having sex, and before we get to the bedroom. The plan is to get sex on his mind more often so it can marinate a little and he can see it as a fun good thing and not something I'm pressuring him into right then. 


We'll see how it goes. He's got a good and willing heart. His desire is just so complicated and hard for me to understand.


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## Livvie

I think it's hard for you to understand because your energies are reversed as a couple because he's more energetically like a woman, which means you have to change and become more like a male energy force.


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## Livvie

Double post


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## TheCuriousWife

Livvie said:


> I think it's hard for you to understand because your energies are reversed as a couple because he's more energetically like a woman, which means you have to change and become more like a male energy force.


Yes I feel like our roles are reserved.

I'm very easy to get going. Pretty much anything can get me thinking about sex. A long hug, a playful pat, getting dressed with a wink, etc. If it's been a week I get so bad I can hardly focus on anything else. 

He is the opposite. I have to move/approach very slowly. If I go too far or too fast, or if he knows what I am up to he will get spooked and shut down. I have to make him think about sex without him realizing I am making him think about sex. lol. Even if I am just wanting intimacy and not sex he still thinks I am up to something. For some reason he is really only accepting if he thinks of it and approaches me first. It is extremely hard to back off and wait for him to come to me when I am about to climb the walls though. I totally understand the stereotypical men who are constantly groping and chasing their wives for sex. If he was more like me and encouraged my passion I would be an absolute nympho. 

I respect his feelings though and I have really turned it down. For years I chased him and made him feel pressured and it was devastating to our relationship. Occasionally I slip up and I still hound him, but he is quick to tell me to cool it. I'm sad to not have that raw equal passion with a partner. But overall if I keep myself in check and let him move at his pace we still have a fulfilling and good sex life. Last night we had make up sex and it was grand. Once we get to the bedroom he is all in and is fun and sexy. It is getting him there, and his out of the bedroom skills that need work.


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## CatholicDad

I thought I'd add 2 cents as someone sharing your suffering.

I found it so odd the part that he masturbated while in the shower with you. I would theorize that must be his go to method for dealing with sexual frustration for some reason instead of going after you. Habitual perhaps? Seems almost cruel. This is at best an underhanded means of control... he is taking care of his bodily needs, without the hassle of wooing and pleasing you. I think you should investigate his "habit". A lot of men say they rarely or never do that but in fact are so addicted since youth but will not realize or admit it. If he is clever with technology you may not be able to find evidence of porn without a determined search. This doesn't mean you are unattractive or deficient. Men and porn is a modern epidemic.

Best wishes.


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## TheCuriousWife

That was a long time ago CatholicDad. He was just touching himself, he didn't masturbate to completion or anything. I am 100% sure he doesn't have an issue with porn. Have you read the thread? That horse has been beat to death already.

#1 No he doesn't use porn
#2 No he is not gay
#3 No trauma or abuse

He is a guy with lower testosterone and low FSH. He honestly just doesn't have a huge drive for sex. There is no secret reason he doesn't crave sex, he just doesn't.


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## Blondilocks

It is so sad that this thread is going on 5 years and it doesn't sound as if a lot of progress has been made. What would be even sadder is if you were still posting on it 5 years from now or, even, one year from now.


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## Windwalker

Blondilocks said:


> It is so sad that this thread is going on 5 years and it doesn't sound as if a lot of progress has been made. What would be even sadder is if you were still posting on it 5 years from now or, even, one year from now.


Agreed.


OP, 
3 months and it will be 5 years exactly. Not to mention however long it took for you to find this forum and start posting.

Legit question: How long until you finally break and say **** it all?

This isn't ment to poke at your situation. It's an honest question ment to provoke reflection.

All of us have a breaking point.


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## TheCuriousWife

I'm sorry you guys feel this way. I disagree.

Our marriage and sex life is tons and tons better. I never feel even close to a breaking point anymore. :scratchhead: So I'm not sure how you get that impression.

Our sex is 95% good. Of course we have bad days, which are currently brought out by stress. But we communicated and things are already fixed and back to normal. 

I don't need this forum like a crutch anymore. I come back here because I enjoy chit chatting, venting sometimes, and I like keeping some of the posters that actually care about my situation up to date. If you don't like my story move along.

Seriously I have thought many times about deleting this thread. I don't need it, and I feel like people go back and pick and choose things over the years and assume I'm still in turmoil. But unfortunately there are no general chatting threads... I don't feel like I can contribute much to other people's problems so where does that leave me? I suppose I should just stop posting.


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## karole

Please don't stop posting Curious. I love reading your updates!


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## TheCuriousWife

People like to pretend they don't have arguments with their spouse and never have a bad day and want to vent. I go months without posting because things are going well and I completely forget about TAM. It is ridiculous that every time I come back here and vent that there is the mob crying for divorce. My husband and I have a wonderful marriage. I would argue one of the best out of our many friends. We are going through the one of the most stressful times of our lives. It is okay if we have a couple bad days. Our life is NOTHING like it used to be. 

Who are they to judge? We literally never argue about money, or morals, or hobbies, or anything else most couples do. At lot of things which I would consider "breaking points."

TAM used to be a place of encouragement and advice. Now I'm not so sure I get anything out of it that is worth sticking around for.

Karole you have been so sweet and patient with me, even in the bad days. I appreciate that. You are one of the very few people that keep me coming back.


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## BioFury

TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm sorry you guys feel this way. I disagree.
> 
> Our marriage and sex life is tons and tons better. I never feel even close to a breaking point anymore. :scratchhead: So I'm not sure how you get that impression.
> 
> Our sex is 95% good. Of course we have bad days, which are currently brought out by stress. But we communicated and things are already fixed and back to normal.
> 
> I don't need this forum like a crutch anymore. I come back here because I enjoy chit chatting, venting sometimes, and I like keeping some of the posters that actually care about my situation up to date. If you don't like my story move along.
> 
> Seriously I have thought many times about deleting this thread. I don't need it, and I feel like people go back and pick and choose things over the years and assume I'm still in turmoil. But unfortunately there are no general chatting threads... I don't feel like I can contribute much to other people's problems so where does that leave me? I suppose I should just stop posting.


I've always enjoyed your posts. You're one of the few religious individuals on the boards, so it's nice to have you around 

I'm glad that you're happier today than you were when you started this thread. I hope that trend continues, and that you continue to let us tag along on your journey.


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## TheCuriousWife

Things are going so much better!!

His overtime stopped, and we are about done with our home remodel. We have passed all our deadlines so we are no longer under any pressure to hurry. We moved into our new bedroom and it is glorious! Stress is down a lot. 

I haven't been sick anymore this year thankfully. 

Now he is back on the baby train. I have been putting him off for years and years. I am still unsure but I am trying to be open to his feelings. I have scheduled a doctors appointment next month just to have some health discussions and see how pregnancy could affect me.


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## TheCuriousWife

My semi-annual check in.

Things are different but still good.

He got a new job. A VERY demanding night shift job. He works 6 or 7 days a week, every week. So he is really worn out and tired/cranky all the time. The plus side is we have a lot more money and now have access to good health care. He will hopefully be moving to a day shift reasonably soon which will help some.

Our frequency is down because of his exhaustion, so we are holding at about once a week. But the sex we do have is really good. He bought me a new toy for Christmas, been buying lingerie, etc. He has been pretty committed to giving me "daily lovings." So kissing, back scratch, cuddling, etc. Which has helped make the dry times not so bad. His enthusiasm about sex has been more real. Such as yesterday we went out to dinner and shopping and flirted/kissed during the entire evening. 

Babies are soon to be a real possibility. We are going to some open houses of hospitals next week. I've started taking vitamins, etc.


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## karole

So good to hear from you Curious! I am glad things are going well for you and hubby. I hope your health has improved as well. 

You will have to come back and update when you get pregnant!


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## BioFury

TheCuriousWife said:


> My semi-annual check in.
> 
> Things are different but still good.
> 
> He got a new job. A VERY demanding night shift job. He works 6 or 7 days a week, every week. So he is really worn out and tired/cranky all the time. The plus side is we have a lot more money and now have access to good health care. He will hopefully be moving to a day shift reasonably soon which will help some.
> 
> Our frequency is down because of his exhaustion, so we are holding at about once a week. But the sex we do have is really good. He bought me a new toy for Christmas, been buying lingerie, etc. He has been pretty committed to giving me "daily lovings." So kissing, back scratch, cuddling, etc. Which has helped make the dry times not so bad. His enthusiasm about sex has been more real. Such as yesterday we went out to dinner and shopping and flirted/kissed during the entire evening.
> 
> Babies are soon to be a real possibility. We are going to some open houses of hospitals next week. I've started taking vitamins, etc.


Happy to hear things are still going well for you guys 

Babies... Knowing when you're fertile can be very confusing. At times, this difficulty necessitates daily love making. I trust you'll educate yourself thoroughly, to cut down on such unnecessary turbulence :wink2:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

@TheCuriousWife

It may or not suit your needs, but would you want to close this thread and start another?

If only to help others that may read a bit, not catch the updates where (great news!) you and H turned a critical corner and are enjoying a much happier marriage.

Your story is a super success story to date. 

That's an outstanding story of encouragement to hear for many, and needed. 

Either way, I hope you stay and keeping sharing the important helpful experiences you've gone through on your journey. 

Best!

Ragnar


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## TheCuriousWife

Popping in. I went back and read some of the pages of this thread. Crazy how immature we were, and how different things were. I forget how much has changed until I go back and see it again. I'm almost embarrassed by some of it. 


Had a really interesting time a month or two ago. Had good sex, went out with friends and got home around 1am. He was being handsy and one thing led to another and he initiated sex at like 2am for the second time that day. No getting up to shower, no inhibitions, just passion. Only time we ever had middle of the night sex besides our wedding night. Is this my life now? :grin2:

He uses the vibrator on me so often that is it literally broken and we need to buy a new one. lol.

Thankful that our marriage wasn't just another divorce statistic and that we were able to work through and overcome 95% of our issues. 

PS. He is 100% committed to BioFury's previous advice.


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## ConanHub

TheCuriousWife said:


> Popping in. I went back and read some of the pages of this thread. Crazy how immature we were, and how different things were. I forget how much has changed until I go back and see it again. I'm almost embarrassed by some of it.
> 
> 
> Had a really interesting time a month or two ago. Had good sex, went out with friends and got home around 1am. He was being handsy and one thing led to another and he initiated sex at like 2am for the second time that day. No getting up to shower, no inhibitions, just passion. Only time we ever had middle of the night sex besides our wedding night. Is this my life now? :grin2:
> 
> He uses the vibrator on me so often that is it literally broken and we need to buy a new one. lol.
> 
> Thankful that our marriage wasn't just another divorce statistic and that we were able to work through and overcome 95% of our issues.
> 
> PS. He is 100% committed to BioFury's previous advice.


Good to hear good news. How do you feel about babies?

I love them but I get to be at a distance these days. Our 3rd grandchild will be coming along around September.:smile2:


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## TheCuriousWife

ConanHub said:


> Good to hear good news. How do you feel about babies?
> 
> I love them but I get to be at a distance these days. Our 3rd grandchild will be coming along around September.:smile2:


Congratulations!

I'm still undecided about children in general. I don't love them I'll be honest, but I know I want them "eventually."

I feel like it is a good time in our life to make that progression, so I really don't have any more valid reasons to be a hold up. Still very nervous in general but perhaps I feel a little excitement in there too?


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## uhtred

I think too many people put far too little thought into the decision to have children. Its not reversible like buying a car or house. Its something you both have thought about and are sure about. 




TheCuriousWife said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> I'm still undecided about children in general. I don't love them I'll be honest, but I know I want them "eventually."
> 
> I feel like it is a good time in our life to make that progression, so I really don't have any more valid reasons to be a hold up. Still very nervous in general but perhaps I feel a little excitement in there too?


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## fightforher

I am glad things are going well for you. I am glad that your healthy. And as usual .. a bit jealous of your sex life.

Pleased that you are happier now .. and that your hubby is happier now.

The decision to have kids is a big one. Kids are a lot of responsibility and change your life forever. But they also give you experiences that you look back on and feel good about.


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## TheCuriousWife

uhtred said:


> I think too many people put far too little thought into the decision to have children. Its not reversible like buying a car or house. Its something you both have thought about and are sure about.


Thank you Uhred, and I agree. I am fully aware of the lifetime commitment.


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## karole

Great update Curious. I hope your health has improved! Has your doctor given you the okay to have children with your health problems?


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## Mrs Doubt

TheCuriousWife said:


> PS. He is 100% committed to BioFury's previous advice. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>


Hi, I'm glad your situation has improved- I find myself in the same place. Just curious, what was the advice? I've read through and can't find it?

Thanksx


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## BioFury

Mrs Doubt said:


> Hi, I'm glad your situation has improved- I find myself in the same place. Just curious, what was the advice? I've read through and can't find it?
> 
> Thanksx


The advice she is referencing, is my recommendation that due to the infinitely confusing nature of a woman's fertility (wink wink), that her husband should make love to her every day (they were going to try for a baby). It was a jest.

Perhaps when @TheCuriousWife returns for her quarterly TAM visit, she can give you the advice she would have given herself in hindsight.


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## TheCuriousWife

Hey! It's been a minute.

I had a baby! Husband is wonderful and an awesome dad. I've adjusted to motherhood better than I thought I would and we are settled into a new life now. 

Unfortunately our sex life has taken a turn for the worse again. At no fault of our own. Life is cruel. 

I detailed the issue in a new thread so I could maybe get some advice. Painful Sex after Childbirth


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## BioFury

TheCuriousWife said:


> Hey! It's been a minute.
> 
> I had a baby! Husband is wonderful and an awesome dad. I've adjusted to motherhood better than I thought I would and we are settled into a new life now.
> 
> Unfortunately our sex life has taken a turn for the worse again. At no fault of our own. Life is cruel.
> 
> I detailed the issue in a new thread so I could maybe get some advice. Painful Sex after Childbirth


I'm glad you've checked back in! I'm sorry you're going through this, hope things get resolved favorably.

Congrats on the new baby though  Boy or girl?


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## WandaJ

Congratulations! Hope the physical issues get better with time


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## TheCuriousWife

BioFury said:


> I'm glad you've checked back in! I'm sorry you're going through this, hope things get resolved favorably.
> 
> Congrats on the new baby though  Boy or girl?


Girl. We are smitten.


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