# What do you do?



## stoomey74 (Sep 20, 2009)

What do you do when fighting for attention and sex reaches a point where it seems pointless to keep fighting? Is it ok to give up? Is it ok to accept the rejection from your spouse to help your children have a better future?

What do you do?


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

I am going through the same thing, no kids though. Yes, I have recently given up trying to get H's attention after a long time of jumping through hoops, begging, getting angry, crying, etc. One day I woke up and said enough is enough. H and I get along great and are great friends, yes, now we live together as roommates, like a lot of people on this site do. I miss the intimacy, but I also feel free that I gave up a losing battle. I no longer feel the need to "primp" for him because he doesn't look at me anyway, hence the freedom. I know it is not the best situation in the world, but you gotta do what makes you happy. The pain of rejection, however, is a little harder to get over.

Did your spouse give you a reason for not paying attention to you sexually? Mine blames his on extreme depression and weight gain.


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## stoomey74 (Sep 20, 2009)

Never got a reason. I am still having problems with the no connection part. Same situation as you. We get along can have fun but just no intimacy. It gets hard sometime for me as need the intimacy.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I really think women do not understand or really want to accept how important sex is for a man. As I explained in another thread without sex it is hard for a man to even want to try to meet the woman's needs when she is obviously not trying to meet yours. Unfortunately sometimes it takes a separation or threat of divorce to make them see the light. I think the fact that a woman does not even care to meet the man's needs shows there is a problem with the marriage whether it is communication, resentment or whatever. I wouldn't ignore the problem and just accept it because all you are doing is letting the wound fester and once the kids are grown you will have built up a lot of resentment. Inevitably you will end up divorced and a lot older with very little good to show for your patience. The fact is in 10 or twenty years nobody is going to pat you on the back and say "well you stuck it out for the kids...good job."


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

so do you divorce over not getting enough sex? I don't think so....


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi stoomey ~

Have you and your wife been actively trying to resolve the issue?

Does she AGREE there is an issue?

Have you communicated, to the best of your ability, the seriousness and gravity of the situation?

Have you escalated the issue - after discussion with no response, escalate the issue to address through counseling, etc.? If the issue is only ever articulated, but never escalated (i.e., there are no consequences), then your spouse likely assumes that you are all bark and no bite and they assume you are really okay with everything after all and they really don't need to change out anything at all.

Have you ever tried to go to MC to learn how the two of you can communicate better?

Have you ever tried any marriage building activities together (such as through your church or using a book like "His Needs, Her Needs" or a site like marriagebuilders.com)?

Have you ever considered any IC for yourself? To help you look at things more objectively so you can make a decision how to move forward?

Come up with a plan of escalation. Consider what your boundaries are. Consider whether you have tried everything within your power to address the issues. Own the issues that are yours and actively work those, even if your spouse does not do the same.

Best wishes.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> so do you divorce over not getting enough sex? I don't think so....


Rightly or wrongly, people actually do. Generally though, the lack of sex is a symptom of worse things. Like people don't die of fevers, they die of the things that CAUSE fevers.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Beowulf said:


> I really think women do not understand or really want to accept how important sex is for a man. As I explained in another thread without sex it is hard for a man to even want to try to meet the woman's needs when she is obviously not trying to meet yours. Unfortunately sometimes it takes a separation or threat of divorce to make them see the light.


 I absolutely agree with this 100%




> I think the fact that a woman does not even care to meet the man's needs shows there is a problem with the marriage whether it is communication, resentment or whatever.


 I do not believe women are capable of understanding the sheer intensity ....and what a curse the male sex drive can be....they don't have the hormones to infiltrate their body....which creates even more of a disconnect....I know I didn't until midlife ....

Even imagining his rejecting me was enough....I could have never remained unless I had a love affair with masterbation & likely became a walking zombie with a resentment wall built to the sky...I would have been worthless to my kids living in that....I was feeling TOO MUCH, it was like a burning fire.....and it wasn't going away...and I didn't want it too! The only other option would have been to take drugs to lower my sex drive....I think that would have been a damn shame, cause our sex drive is a beautiful thing.



> I wouldn't ignore the problem and just accept it because all you are doing is letting the wound fester and once the kids are grown you will have built up a lot of resentment. Inevitably you will end up divorced and a lot older with very little good to show for your patience. The fact is in 10 or twenty years nobody is going to pat you on the back and say "well you stuck it out for the kids...good job."


 Some people can live like this , some can not. I know I am the type who couldn't, if I was in that situation. I don't feel that makes me a bad person , even though others would judge.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> so do you divorce over not getting enough sex? I don't think so....


Why not?

If there are marital problems causing the sex issues then they must be confronted and dealt with.

If there are medical issues that are causing the sex issues then they must be confronted and dealt with.

Sex is a part of marriage. I consider refusing to have sex with your spouse to be breaking the marital vows. If the marital vows are broken then there is no marriage.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Hi stoomey ~
> 
> Have you and your wife been actively trying to resolve the issue?
> 
> ...


That's why I said sometimes separation or the threat of divorce is the only way to get a spouse to get their head out of the sand and confront the problems of the marriage. I think a lot of the problem is that the rejected spouse feels so bad about themselves that they are afraid to push the issue far enough to resolve it. They're afraid of being called controlling or hearing "is that all you think about...sex!" I've watched my brother-in-law go through this for years. He's refused to bring it to a head because he wants his kids to have a good home life. What he doesn't understand and I've never been able to get him to see is that having two parents so disconnected is not teaching them correctly about what adult married couples should be. They will grown up thinking that is how marriage is and therefore they in turn will probably not have good marriages either. It perpetuates a sad and vicious cycle.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Why not?
> 
> If there are marital problems causing the sex issues then they must be confronted and dealt with.
> 
> ...


she is not refusing...just not often enough...and believe me I have pushed the issue..


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> so do you divorce over not getting enough sex? I don't think so....


No, you divorce if sex IS the emotional connection for you, and without it you are roommates.. and that is not a marriage. If you need and want a FULL relationship and are not getting it, why stay?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

deejov said:


> No, you divorce if sex IS the emotional connection for you, and without it you are roommates.. and that is not a marriage. If you need and want a FULL relationship and are not getting it, why stay?


because marriage is more than frequent sex....


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> because marriage is more than frequent sex....


So you are getting an emotional connection, outside of sex then. Enough to make you stay. Or enough sex to feel connected. Cool. 

Some people don't. They truly cannot connect and stay in love with their partner without a certain amount of sex. Its how they say I love you.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

deejov said:


> So you are getting an emotional connection, outside of sex then. Enough to make you stay. Or enough sex to feel connected. Cool.
> 
> Some people don't. They truly cannot connect and stay in love with their partner without a certain amount of sex. Its how they say I love you.


yes we have a deep emotional connection but i still would love more sex
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headache2011 (Feb 9, 2011)

I agree with Beowulf. I'm in the same boat but my wife isn't wanting sex too often. I don't have the emotional connection I did back in the day before kids. Mine blames it on work, stress, and not enough time in the day. I could talk till I'm blue in the face about it and it would never change. She's kinda sexless but not as bad as some. Maybe once a month here. If anyone finds a good answer shoot some advice this way.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

i am in the once a month club too...if i am lucky...sounds like the same crap my wife says
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Laba (Nov 12, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> so do you divorce over not getting enough sex? I don't think so....


I did divorce for that exact reason and yes, I am a women not a guy... We all have needs and life is too short to compromise your own happiness for someone else.It rarely gets appreciated anyways because no one feels what you feel, I wish more people would just allow themselves to be happy instead of taking anti depressants,anti anxiety drugs etc...when all they have to do is change their lives for better...


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

so sex was so impt you left your husband?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> so do you divorce over not getting enough sex? I don't think so....


Damn right you do.

Forced celibacy would be right near the top of my list.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

so sex was so impt you left your husband?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Mistys dad said:


> Damn right you do.
> 
> Forced celibacy would be right near the top of my list.


no sex is not the same as not enough sex....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> no sex is not the same as not enough sex....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As the saying goes, it isn't the amount, it's the principle.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> As the saying goes, it isn't the amount, it's the principle.


what does that mean? At this point i will take what i can get
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Laba (Nov 12, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> so sex was so impt you left your husband?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes it was. When he cooled down towards me I went through all the motions - self esteem drop, even being hit on by 10 guys a day I still thought I must be ugly because the one that I want didn't want me. He loved me just our sex drives didn't match in long run - he thought honeymoon is over and 1-2 times a month should do it...... Basically I went to him and said I need to divorce you or I will cheat on you and I choose to divorce. He was shocked at first but appreciated my honesty. We still are friends and have lots of respect towards each other.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> what does that mean? At this point i will take what i can get
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That the least little bit of anything, grudgingly given, that you are made to slave for, is no better than none at all.


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## MeetVirginia (Feb 17, 2012)

I agree, you can/should divorce because of a sex issue. I stopped wanting to have sex with my husband, not bc i dont like sex (I love it) but because he made me feel like **** on a daily basis, we argue, dont get along, etc., etc., and then I couldnt understand why he would think i would want to surrender myself to him in such a vulnerable way. After years of unhappiness we have seperated, my hope is to find my way back to him.......


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

MeetVirginia said:


> I agree, you can/should divorce because of a sex issue. I stopped wanting to have sex with my husband, not bc i dont like sex (I love it) but because he made me feel like **** on a daily basis, we argue, dont get along, etc., etc., and then I couldnt understand why he would think i would want to surrender myself to him in such a vulnerable way. After years of unhappiness we have seperated, my hope is to find my way back to him.......


Many times there are other issues that affect the frequency of sex in a marriage. That's why I say you cannot ignore the sex issues since they are oftentimes, although not always, a symptom of an unhealthy relationship. I hope you do find happiness wherever that may lie.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Many times there are other issues that affect the frequency of sex in a marriage. That's why I say you cannot ignore the sex issues since they are oftentimes, although not always, a symptom of an unhealthy relationship. I hope you do find happiness wherever that may lie.


Well if you treat your spouse badly out of the bedroom you should not expect frequent sex....that is not the problem with us...We are very close emotionally and morally...sex is good just not often enough for me...and hammering at that issue does not help
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> Well if you treat your spouse badly out of the bedroom you should not expect frequent sex....that is not the problem with us...We are very close emotionally and morally...sex is good just not often enough for me...and hammering at that issue does not help
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, hammering at the issue will not help. But pulling back and showing her how much it bothers you might.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

I divorced my wife because no matter how much I improved as a husband it was not enough for her to ignite the passion we had when we first met. Now I'm in a committed relationship with a woman who initiates sex as much as I do.

I've come to the sad conclusion that the old saying "familiarity breeds contempt" is very much true and that marriage can be the biggest source of familiarity.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> That the least little bit of anything, grudgingly given, that you are made to slave for, is no better than none at all.


she gives it enthusiastically but not often enough
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> No, hammering at the issue will not help. But pulling back and showing her how much it bothers you might.


pulling back?you mean not doing what?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

chaos said:


> I divorced my wife because no matter how much I improved as a husband it was not enough for her to ignite the passion we had when we first met. Now I'm in a committed relationship with a woman who initiates sex as much as I do.
> 
> I've come to the sad conclusion that the old saying "familiarity breeds contempt" is very much true and that marriage can be the biggest source of familiarity.


Don't be surprised if this passion fades as well
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

confusedinlife said:


> Don't be surprised if this passion fades as well
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right, everything in life eventually comes to an end, even passion. But the fact that the woman I love does her best to be my passionate lover even when she may not be feeling her best, speaks more to me than the actual sex itself. It shows that I care a great deal to her and that in turn makes me more than anything else to respond in kind.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

chaos said:


> You are right, everything in life eventually comes to an end, even passion. But the fact that the woman I love does her best to be my passionate lover even when she may not be feeling her best, speaks more to me than the actual sex itself. It shows that I care a great deal to her and that in turn makes me more than anything else to respond in kind.


the trick is to be a caring husband even when you ate not getting the frequency of sex you want...it ain't easy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> pulling back?you mean not doing what?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you read the book _His Needs, Her Needs_? If she is not fulfilling your needs she must come to realize that eventually her needs will not be fulfilled either. If you're continually giving and she is not at some point you will grow so resentful your marriage will not thrive and possibly end. I would suggest very strongly you read the book together and if there are other marital issues you may want to read _Love Busters_ as well. Hopefully if you both read and try to understand each other better you won't have to read his other book _Surviving Infidelity_.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> the trick is to be a caring husband even when you ate not getting the frequency of sex you want...it ain't easy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, that is not the trick at all. That is giving and giving and giving until you have nothing more to give. Then the relationship suffers to the point that apathy sets in or divorce begins to be considered. Or one of you has an affair.

Edit: Why don't you go to Lionelhutz thread and see your future. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/40958-wife-talks-about-restarting-things.html


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I am slowly abandoning my humanity. I will be mostly robotic soon.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> No, that is not the trick at all. That is giving and giving and giving until you have nothing more to give. Then the relationship suffers to the point that apathy sets in or divorce begins to be considered. Or one of you has an affair.
> 
> Edit: Why don't you go to Lionelhutz thread and see your future. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/40958-wife-talks-about-restarting-things.html


So if i don't get more sex my marriage is over?sounds pretty selfish...id like to think mu marriage is stronger than that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

which of her needs do you suggest i neglect so i can get the sex i want?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

confusedinlife said:


> the trick is to be a caring husband even when you ate not getting the frequency of sex you want...it ain't easy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No it isn't but it becomes much easier if the wife does her best to show her husband that she still desires him sexually even though she may not be up to the task of having more sex. Caring should be a two way street.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> So if i don't get more sex my marriage is over?sounds pretty selfish...id like to think mu marriage is stronger than that
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A marriage is only as strong as the commitment level of the spouses. If she is not committed to meeting your needs your marriage is not as strong as you would like to believe.

Example. Taking a page out of _His Needs, Her Needs_, I assume one of her needs is financial security. How would she feel if you decided that you didn't like working full time anymore and cut your hours sacrificing 1/2 your pay in the process? You could say to her "_well I'm still working and earning money, just not as much as you'd like_." Would your marriage survive and thrive then?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> which of her needs do you suggest i neglect so i can get the sex i want?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you saying you need to neglect her needs in order for you to get her to take your needs seriously? And you think you have a strong marriage?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Are you saying you need to neglect her needs in order for you to get her to take your needs seriously? And you think you have a strong marriage?


no sex you are telling me that if my needs are neglected eventually hers will be....so where is that coming from?sounded to me like you were advocating my neglecting her needs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> A marriage is only as strong as the commitment level of the spouses. If she is not committed to meeting your needs your marriage is not as strong as you would like to believe.
> 
> Example. Taking a page out of _His Needs, Her Needs_, I assume one of her needs is financial security. How would she feel if you decided that you didn't like working full time anymore and cut your hours sacrificing 1/2 your pay in the process? You could say to her "_well I'm still working and earning money, just not as much as you'd like_." Would your marriage survive and thrive then?


I don't see not working as much and not having sex as the same thing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

chaos said:


> No it isn't but it becomes much easier if the wife does her best to show her husband that she still desires him sexually even though she may not be up to the task of having more sex. Caring should be a two way street.


She has told me many times that she feels guilty she does not want sex more....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> no sex you are telling me that if my needs are neglected eventually hers will be....so where is that coming from?sounded to me like you were advocating my neglecting her needs
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, what I said is that eventually you will grow resentful and begin ignoring her needs. That is the natural progression. So say you stop showing her affection because after all, what's the point if you aren't getting much sex. Oh and you must also realize that your once a month sex life will eventually drop to once every two months, then once every three months and maybe then once a year, etc. So again, you stop showing her affection. This goes on for some time, maybe even years. At some point, she strikes up a friendship with a man that shows her attention. They grow closer and he begins to show her affection. This turns into an emotional affair and progresses naturally into a physical affair. Then you're back on here asking how your sexless wife could possibly be having an affair when she claimed to not want sex for all those years. Unless of course you are the one who ends up having an affair first. If you've been on here awhile and scanned the different sections of TAM you already know I'm right.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> She has told me many times that she feels guilty she does not want sex more....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not guilty enough to work on it though?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I don't see not working as much and not having sex as the same thing
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course you don't because you are still trying to fulfill her needs while having your own ignored. That won't last.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Not guilty enough to work on it though?


I believe she would do it more if she could...on weekdays she is up at 5 for work and is asleep by 9....teaching job is very stressful...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> No, what I said is that eventually you will grow resentful and begin ignoring her needs. That is the natural progression. So say you stop showing her affection because after all, what's the point if you aren't getting much sex. Oh and you must also realize that your once a month sex life will eventually drop to once every two months, then once every three months and maybe then once a year, etc. So again, you stop showing her affection. This goes on for some time, maybe even years. At some point, she strikes up a friendship with a man that shows her attention. They grow closer and he begins to show her affection. This turns into an emotional affair and progresses naturally into a physical affair. Then you're back on here asking how your sexless wife could possibly be having an affair when she claimed to not want sex for all those years. Unless of course you are the one who ends up having an affair first. If you've been on here awhile and scanned the different sections of TAM you already know I'm right.


all this tells me is that if you dontget the sex you want your marriage is done
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I believe she would do it more if she could...on weekdays she is up at 5 for work and is asleep by 9....teaching job is very stressful...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you have every weekend free right? Yet you only have sex once a month.

So your marriage takes a back seat to her job? My wife and I are probably older than you and your wife. We both get up at 5:30 and still somehow find time for sex. I guess it's all how you look at things. We place a high priority on our marriage and spending quality time together. We have done that for the last 20 years. Granted it was more difficult to find that time to be together when the kids were young but we found it because our marriage depended on it. It's amazing what you can do when you set your mind to it.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

confusedinlife said:


> all this tells me is that if you dontget the sex you want your marriage is done
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pretty much so. 

Sorry just being honest.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> all this tells me is that if you dontget the sex you want your marriage is done
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess you could hope to spend your entire lives in platonic bliss and abject apathy. Or you could hope that your wife has an epiphany when she hits 40 or 50 like Lionel's wife or other women who have posted here. Of course you have to hope by then that your resentment hasn't set in so deep that you are still able to appreciate and accept the change in philosophy.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

confusedinlife said:


> the trick is to be a caring husband even when you ate not getting the frequency of sex you want...it ain't easy





confusedinlife said:


> she gives it enthusiastically but not often enough


ConfusedinLife.... you sound soooo much like my husband, that was his approach too...treated me like a Queen from day one, never pulled back his affection, his time, I thought we had it all....marraige made in heaven. 

We did faithfully have sex at least once a week-or I would have been climbing the walls... I needed it that much, like yours enthusiastic always...it was a peice of heaven every single time...but he wanted more. Not sure how you are but my husband was too passive, he suffered silently, he treated me so darn good, I had NO idea he was feeling this way... I learned 3 yrs ago about all of this...

Resentment DOES build up, even in the best of marraiges....to learn that my husband secretly wanted me to suffer like him, WOW ! A blow...he hid it very very well, more grouchy with the kids, it climbed in the last couple yrs before I had a sex drive increase that got us talking about all of this.... 

I asked him on a scale of 1-10 - how much resentment he had built up...he said a 5..... because of this, he even started to loose his sex drive a little for me, it was just easier that way... the constant want not being fullfilled enough...again on that bar ...he said a "5" -this drive declined from a 10 to a 5.....so he still had a sex drive but he got to the point of waiting for me to come & get him. He wanted to refuse me but... couldn't do it. So again, I had no idea he was trying to even get back at me ! I did start to think...wow, he doesn't seem to care anymore, when this hit me... it did cause sadness. and soon after I had a sex drive explosion, maybe that was a small part of it. 

I don't care how good a marriage is...if one wants MORE .....resentment often does grow... Can you really say you have none towards your wife, if you are only getting it once a month?? Where would your bar be on a scale from 1-10 right now?

My husband is not even a higher test man & once a week caused him to grow resentment and we were always pathetically close, did everything together. 

Just saying.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The statement below is worded in a somewhat one sided manner. 

There are a lot of factors that come into play and impact frequency over a long term marriage. 

The way I would phrase this is: If I felt like my needs (including my sexual needs) had become a low prioirty to my W we would have a very calm, constructive and direct discussion about that. If meeting my sexual needs (which are reasonable) was something she truly no longer wanted to do I wouldn't divorce her. However she would have to accept that I would get those needs met outside the marriage. She knows that and knows I far prefer to not go there. 

My view of this is and always has been simple. I wouldn't divorce my W over a lack of sex. But if she took the position that I was obligated to be celibate/near celibate simply because she didn't WANT (not talking about serious illness/injury) to connect with me, that wouldn't be acceptable. 

The easiest way to say it is I would allow her to divorce ME if the only choice she offered me was celibacy/near celibacy and she elected to divorce over my decision to find a "friend". 





confusedinlife said:


> all this tells me is that if you dontget the sex you want your marriage is done
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

CIL,
She may never "want" it - in the sense that she may rarely/never feel "desire" the way we as men do. 

And that is perfectly fine IF she understands that she is responsible for teaching you how to get her in the mood when she starts out in "neutral" and relaxing and "allowing" you to get her in the mood. 

If the two of you really believe:
- YOUR need for sex is much more emotional than physical - it makes you feel loved
- YOUR needs are as important as hers
- SHE is responsible for teaching/relaxing 
- YOU are responsible for learning and following through on the "slow warm up"

Then the result should be a compromise frequency that you feel good about. Maybe her job rules out weekdays - personally that seems a bit of a cop out. Don't get me wrong - I understand her schedule is difficult. But setting aside Wednesday night to get in bed at 8:00 or 8:30 really isn't like climbing Everest. 

Either way, she should make a determined effort to create a weekend schedule where you can connect at least twice. And that is a choice. And yes it means that some other stuff is going to be prioritized LOWER than your core emotional need. Just as it should be. 





confusedinlife said:


> I believe she would do it more if she could...on weekdays she is up at 5 for work and is asleep by 9....teaching job is very stressful...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stoomey74 (Sep 20, 2009)

Basically I am screwed. Enchantment- we have done therapy and she agrees there is a problem. She says she needs to work harder in the relationship but it never happens. It always stays the same.

I never get an answer to why she doesn't want sex or why she doesn't want to spend time getting the connection back.

I don't want to get a divorce as I have a young child and some older kids. I don't want to destroy the family.is it wrong if I just give up and stay for the sake of the family?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> ConfusedinLife.... you sound soooo much like my husband, that was his approach too...treated me like a Queen from day one, never pulled back his affection, his time, I thought we had it all....marraige made in heaven.
> 
> We did faithfully have sex at least once a week-or I would have been climbing the walls... I needed it that much, like yours enthusiastic always...it was a peice of heaven every single time...but he wanted more. Not sure how you are but my husband was too passive, he suffered silently, he treated me so darn good, I had NO idea he was feeling this way... I learned 3 yrs ago about all of this...
> 
> ...


Yes i resent my wife for infrequently sex...i just don't want to constantly argue or divorce over it....id rather continue to treat her in a loving way rather than take out my frustrations on her...and yes it would seem that she could make more time for sex...just see how to do any more to make that happen...i can't see me telling her look i will divorce you if this does not change
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> I guess you could hope to spend your entire lives in platonic bliss and abject apathy. Or you could hope that your wife has an epiphany when she hits 40 or 50 like Lionel's wife or other women who have posted here. Of course you have to hope by then that your resentment hasn't set in so deep that you are still able to appreciate and accept the change in philosophy.


we are in our early 60's
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> Yes i resent my wife for infrequently sex...i just don't want to constantly argue or divorce over it....id rather continue to treat her in a loving way rather than take out my frustrations on her...and yes it would seem that she could make more time for sex...just see how to do any more to make that happen...i can't see me telling her look i will divorce you if this does not change
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then you are accepting something in your marriage that you resent. People accept things in their marriages that they shouldn't all the time. Spouses stay married even though there is abuse, physical, emotional. Spouses stay married to alcoholics and drug addicts. People stay married to serial cheaters. Understand that every time you accept something in your marriage that you aren't happy about you are compromising and/or enabling. It means that you are saying your spouse, ever though he/she is wrong, is more important than you. There has to be negotiation in a marriage and real effort on both parties for a marriage to thrive. IMO you aren't being a good husband here, you are being codependent.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Then you are accepting something in your marriage that you resent. People accept things in their marriages that they shouldn't all the time. Spouses stay married even though there is abuse, physical, emotional. Spouses stay married to alcoholics and drug addicts. People stay married to serial cheaters. Understand that every time you accept something in your marriage that you aren't happy about you are compromising and/or enabling. It means that you are saying your spouse, ever though he/she is wrong, is more important than you. There has to be negotiation in a marriage and real effort on both parties for a marriage to thrive. IMO you aren't being a good husband here, you are being codependent.


When you compromise, you are not happy about something. Marriage involves compromise. I am not codependent by putting my wife;s needs ahead of mine. She puts my needs ahead of hers in other areas. And I hardly think staying married in those other situations is analogous. I am sure my wife wishes I was different in certain areas but she accepts me regardless.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> we are in our early 60's
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then you aren't going to be getting any positive mid life crises developments in your future. And you are just a tad older than my wife and I. No young children. No excuse.

Is your wife having medical issues die to menopause? She's probably already gone through it I would imagine but a woman's body changes and sometimes sex can become painful, sometimes her private parts can become irritated and dry, sometimes the hormones just don't re-balance right. If your wife hasn't done so already I would recommend strongly that she see an endocrinologist and have a complete hormone workup done. Do not rely on the advice of your average gynecologist. They usually aren't concerned with such matters. You may also want to check out _What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause_ by Dr. John Lee.

Official Web Site of John R. Lee, M.D.

Good luck.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> so do you divorce over not getting enough sex? I don't think so....


Why not?

The alternative is a life of near celibacy.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Why not?
> 
> The alternative is a life of near celibacy.


Because loving someone involves more than sex...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> When you compromise, you are not happy about something. Marriage involves compromise. I am not codependent by putting my wife;s needs ahead of mine. She puts my needs ahead of hers in other areas. And I hardly think staying married in those other situations is analogous. I am sure my wife wishes I was different in certain areas but she accepts me regardless.


Dude, lack of sex is not comparable to not taking out the trash or leaving the seat up. It's a basic need men have that helps them connect emotionally with their wives. Are you giving her affection, communication, financial security, etc. Again, I suggest you both read _His Needs Her Needs_ together. If you already have...read it again because the information seems to have been lost somewhere. 

Have you ever read Dr. Helen Fisher's book _Anatomy of Love_? There are biological reason why men need to have sex at least once a week or more. There are also reasons why sometimes a woman refuses to have sex more often with her regular mate. If you are being refused sex to the point that it is occurring less than once a week and there are no medical reasons to explain it your relationship is not healthy. I can probably quote the reasons here but I'd rather you read the book. You can take it out of any library.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> Because loving someone involves more than sex...


Yes but it includes a reasonable frequency of sex. And you're not getting that.

Sex is an ingredient of love. When you bake a cake you need flour, sugar, eggs, etc. Try baking a cake without the sugar and tell me how it tastes? Sure you can bake a cake without the sugar but I'm not going to eat it. I'll leave it all for you.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Dude, lack of sex is not comparable to not taking out the trash or leaving the seat up. It's a basic need men have that helps them connect emotionally with their wives. Are you giving her affection, communication, financial security, etc. Again, I suggest you both read _His Needs Her Needs_ together. If you already have...read it again because the information seems to have been lost somewhere.
> 
> Have you ever read Dr. Helen Fisher's book _Anatomy of Love_? There are biological reason why men need to have sex at least once a week or more. There are also reasons why sometimes a woman refuses to have sex more often with her regular mate. If you are being refused sex to the point that it is occurring less than once a week and there are no medical reasons to explain it your relationship is not healthy. I can probably quote the reasons here but I'd rather you read the book. You can take it out of any library.


there are plenty of men that dont get sex once a week and they dont leave their wives


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> I don't believe that these men are truly happy.
> 
> Life is short, I'm really enjoying life and sex is a part of that.



PART of life yes.....that is the key


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> there are plenty of men that dont get sex once a week and they dont leave their wives


Are they happy? I doubt it but they just accept their fate and plod along in life. I'm not like that. I want to be happy. I want to have a healthy sex life and a healthy marriage. I do not want to be in that club.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> PART of life yes.....that is the key


Why do you keep saying _that is the key_. The key to what...acceptance? ambivalence? That's a key I'd never take. I won't go through that door.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> As a man, I have a hard time understanding how another man can really enjoy spending the rest of his life with someone, when that also means Zero sex.
> 
> How can a man really love someone, really be close to that person.
> 
> Unless that person had some type of medical condition that developed, how can a man remain truly happy in a sex-less relationship for the rest of his life.


it is not sexless...


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Are they happy? I doubt it but they just accept their fate and plod along in life. I'm not like that. I want to be happy. I want to have a healthy sex life and a healthy marriage. I do not want to be in that club.


then I hope your sex frequency does not decline because your wife would be history...does she know that?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> it is not sexless...


Biologically speaking, it is sexless. Emotionally speaking, it might as well be.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> then I hope your sex frequency does not decline because your wife would be history...does she know that?


As a matter of fact she does. Would you like me to ask her to come here and tell you herself?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> As a matter of fact she does. Would you like me to ask her to come here and tell you herself?


than that is sad....she knows you'd leave her if sex declined....good luck basing a life on that....


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Biologically speaking, it is sexless. Emotionally speaking, it might as well be.


you have no idea what you are talking about...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> than that is sad....she knows you'd leave her if sex declined....good luck basing a life on that....



Our lives are not based on this but they do include this. Why wouldn't they? You and I seem to see sex in different terms. You see it as candy, not necessary but nice when you get it. I see it as part of the main course. Without it you can still eat but not really be satisfied. Different strokes I guess. What I'm wondering is if you are so ok with your sex life why are you resentful?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> you have no idea what you are talking about...


Yup, I guess that is true. All the books I've read. All the websites I've visited. All the research I've done. BTW, I didn't do it to be able to comment on TAM. I did all that reading and research to have a great marriage and to continue to work on always making it better. I have a great sex life. I have no resentment toward my wife. Many people think marriage is static. It's not. It's a living breathing constantly evolving thing. It needs to be nourished and cared for or it will die. I'm doing that. I guess I don't have any idea what I'm talking about.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> there are plenty of men that dont get sex once a week and they dont leave their wives


The human species can put up with, and survive, all sorts of things. However, you need to be careful to distinguish between what a person (or you) are capable of and prepared to tolerate, and what the general run of people will accept.

Also, what suits you may very well not suit everyone. The balance of the evidence of the posters on this site is that low sex / near sexual relationships are a problem. Yes, people tolerate them. People tolerate toothache and splinters in their fingers, but taken in the round, most people prefer to try to do something about them.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> The human species can put up with, and survive, all sorts of things. However, you need to be careful to distinguish between what a person (or you) are capable of and prepared to tolerate, and what the general run of people will accept.
> 
> Also, what suits you may very well not suit everyone. The balance of the evidence of the posters on this site is that low sex / near sexual relationships are a problem. Yes, people tolerate them. People tolerate toothache and splinters in their fingers, but taken in the round, most people prefer to try to do something about them.


i am trying to do something about it as i am obviously unhappy with how things are....my other point is that i don't think it id worth losing an otherwisehappy love due to infrequent sex...my wife has many other qualities that i May not find in another who my be willing to screw me every day....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Confused,
Do you know "why" she minimizes sex with you?

I have had some challenges in this area, W has a painful condition, menopause effected her desire, etc. Prior to understanding what was happening I simply knew something was wrong but didn't know "what". 

For you - it could be that what used to turn her on, no longer works as well. Could be anything. Is she comfortable talking about the "why"? And if so, the whole "schedule" bit shouldn't come up. This isn't about her work schedule. 





confusedinlife said:


> i am trying to do something about it as i am obviously unhappy with how things are....my other point is that i don't think it id worth losing an otherwisehappy love due to infrequent sex...my wife has many other qualities that i May not find in another who my be willing to screw me every day....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

confusedinlife said:


> i am trying to do something about it as i am obviously unhappy with how things are....my other point is that i don't think it id worth losing an otherwisehappy love due to infrequent sex...my wife has many other qualities that i May not find in another who my be willing to screw me every day....


Everybody has different tolerations in life & marraige...... some things I could never stand to live with, someone else likely could...and things I could , they might not.... It is your life. You are in your 60's, so how many years have you been dealing with this? Since menopause or your entire marriage? '

You admitted to resentment building...how is this being processed, expressed ? It sounds you are not pulling back from her and still treating her good - how do you do that? Are you screaming inside -I can't imagine holding all of that in.

YOu will find many in your shoes who stay in their marriages here:

sexless marriage Forums

This is What a Sexless Marriage Feels Like - And yet - Open Salon

.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

stoomey74 said:


> Basically I am screwed. Enchantment- we have done therapy and she agrees there is a problem. She says she needs to work harder in the relationship but it never happens. It always stays the same.
> 
> I never get an answer to why she doesn't want sex or why she doesn't want to spend time getting the connection back.
> 
> I don't want to get a divorce as I have a young child and some older kids. I don't want to destroy the family.is it wrong if I just give up and stay for the sake of the family?


Hi stoomey ~

Have YOU done therapy, just yourself? Will you consider to keep going for yourself, even if your wife won't go?

A good resource for you to consider is reading the following - specifically for men to help them work through how to set and follow through on boundaries. Because that's a large part of what is going on - you are willing enough to set a boundary, but unwilling to enforce it because it could be painful.

Amazon.com: Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men (9780979054402): Wayne M. Levine: Books

People often flagellate back and forth in this quandary for some time, until they begin to realize that at the point they are willing to actually let the relationship go - the rock bottom if you will - then that is when they begin to see some peace in themselves and can often make a clearer decision on what to do to move forward. Having someone to talk to during that process, like a counselor, can be very beneficial to you.

Don't give up - not on yourself, stoomey. There's a lot out there for you, and a whole lot more yet INSIDE of you - it may not be exactly what you expect to find, but it may be just what you need.

Best wishes.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Everybody has different tolerations in life & marraige...... some things I could never stand to live with, someone else likely could...and things I could , they might not.... It is your life. You are in your 60's, so how many years have you been dealing with this? Since menopause or your entire marriage? '
> 
> You admitted to resentment building...how is this being processed, expressed ? It sounds you are not pulling back from her and still treating her good - how do you do that? Are you screaming inside -I can't imagine holding all of that in.
> Since menopause ...so a few years now...i tgreat her good because i love her....yes sometimes i a screaming inside
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> i am trying to do something about it as i am obviously unhappy with how things are....my other point is that i don't think it id worth losing an otherwisehappy love due to infrequent sex...my wife has many other qualities that i May not find in another who my be willing to screw me every day....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi confusedinlife ~

I think we have a bit of a 'thread in a thread' here. Both you and stoomey's stories. 

Let me ask you these things:

Have you ever expressed to your wife what it is that you wish? Do you think she understands how you feel about it, or have you held it in?

If you have expressed it to her, what did she say? Was she willing to compromise with you?

What are the differences we are talking about here? How often do you have sex now? How often would you like it?

What's the health condition of your wife? You say she works everyday and gets up at 5 and is in her early 60's. Does she have any problems with her health, or with issues from being post-menopausal, that would need to be addressed that could be affecting her desire or willingness to have sex more often?

Best wishes.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> Hi confusedinlife ~
> 
> I think we have a bit of a 'thread in a thread' here. Both you and stoomey's stories.
> 
> ...


hi Enchantment

thanks so much for your thoughtful concern...yes, my wife knows how I feel but says she is doing the best she can...I'd like it once a week ( we do it once a month)...her health is good but her job is very stressful and tiring ( she teaches elem school)...there are some dryness issues which we address with lubricants and patience...

what else would you like to know?

Thanks for you concern...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dean,
Perhaps my use of caps has irritated confusedinlife. I really ought not to mix drinking wine and posting on emotionally volatile subjects. 

Confused,
I promise not to use any more caps on your thread. 




*Dean* said:


> *confusedinlife*
> 
> You should go back and read MEM11363's post to you on page 6 and answer his questions.
> He has a lot of knowledge in this area and has helped some men successfully turn things around with their wifes.
> ...


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Dean,
> Perhaps my use of caps has irritated confusedinlife. I really ought not to mix drinking wine and posting on emotionally volatile subjects.
> 
> Confused,
> I promise not to use any more caps on your thread.


Mem....you did not offend me and i appreciate your help...wife tried hormone cream for dryness and pain and it worked for awhile but then we changed to his and her lubricants and more replay...sex between us is still very very good and the always cums ...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> hi Enchantment
> 
> thanks so much for your thoughtful concern...yes, my wife knows how I feel but says she is doing the best she can...I'd like it once a week ( we do it once a month)...her health is good but her job is very stressful and tiring ( she teaches elem school)...there are some dryness issues which we address with lubricants and patience...
> 
> ...


Hi confused ~

If your wife is in her early 60's, is she getting close to retirement?

Are you still working as well?

Is she willing to try and do things that may help her to deal with her stress - exercising such as taking a walk together in the evenings, listening to music together, doing yoga, meditating, etc.?

If the weekends are the only time when you can have sex, would she be willing to add just one more time - so you could have every other weekend? (Then you could eventually work up from there.)

I'm really asking you whether she is willing to compromise with you on the issue.

I also think that she should go to her ob-gyn for another consult. There are options for low-dose estrogen, for instance, that can be inserted into the vagina that could help a lot. Another poster (ThreeTimesALady) is in her 70's with an active sex life with her H and has recommended the following before. Perhaps your wife should check in to it.

ESTRING.com

Many, many women will encounter a loss of drive and some atrophy of their genitals post-menopause. However, there are so many options to explore that could help the physical issues that can result.

Please see if you can convince your wife to explore those options and encourage her to explore ways that she could deal with her stress and fatigue.

Edited to Add:

Is she willing to do other things than just intercourse? Would she be willing to lend a hand ... or a mouth on occasions where she does not feel up to intercourse?

Best wishes.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Confused,
The non-threatening, potentially enlightening conversation could go something like this.

I absolutely know that your intentions are not to cause me to feel unimportant and in so doing create a situation where I feel unloved. (you can be softer than unloved, but not so soft that she misunderstands how important this is).

Let her respond here if she has something to say. She may just nod. 

So I want to try an experiment. I want to schedule a set time, say for an hour and half once a week for us to be physically intimate. Some of those times we may not have intercourse. In fact we may not always do things that result in orgasm. And I am ok with that. Maybe we get partially undressed and kiss and tease each other. What matters to me is that you make this a priority because our current situation is a source of deep distress for me. 

Again - she may want to have some discussion here. And that might be a good thing, or an attempt to derail you. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As part of this new routine I need you to understand something. I accept that you don't directly control the level of lust you feel. And I am sympathetic in that regard. I have been laboring under the impression that once we "get started" it feels good for you. But maybe that isn't quite right. Maybe I touch you in sensitive spots before you are ready. But I don't want to "guess", I want to improve.

So in that spirit I want to play a game the first few times. It might seem goofy but it can't hurt to try. The game is "You touch/I touch". I want you to touch me the way you want me to touch you. And then I will try to replicate that touch on you. I want you to show me how to make the whole experience more enjoyable for you. Because if I have to guess based on our current frequency, I am not sure that the "overall" experience is positive for you and I want it to be. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Confused,
The single most likely "challenge" you will get on this is that she dislikes that it isn't natural/spontaneous. And your response to that needs to be simultaneously firm and kind. If it were me: 

Darling, once a month of "spontaneity" is killing me. It isn't working and isn't going to. I recognize that there will be times when you simply are not able to relax and get fully in the mood. And when that happens we will do "less". It is also true that I need you to show me that your commitment to the marriage is strong enough for you to come to our bed/intimacy time with a loving heart and a desire to be pleasing to the man who has made you the highest priority in his life. 

So lets try this for a few months and see what happens. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

IMO: If your W cares about you, she will go for this. Personally it is "ok" to be a little flexible on the schedule as long as you have a safety net. For instance if she really feels strongly about spontaneity, you "could" have an understanding that she can cue you to initiate any time Friday night through Saturday night provided she doesn't wait until so close to bed/sleep time that you end up with a quick 20-30 minutes or a very tired partner. However, the understanding needs to be that if she doesn't "cue" you by Saturday night, you will connect Sunday at "x time" and that nothing else will be scheduled for that special Sunday time in the event you end up needing it. 

There is one last piece of this puzzle that you may need. This is not going to be fun if you have to do it, but it is fair. If she absolutely resists agreeing to the plan above you should ask. 

"Since you know how much this hurts me, it seems obvious that the only reason you would resist something like this as strongly as you are is if our physical relationship is seriously broken. 

If that is the case then you either find me very physically undesirable or something I am doing when we connect is very unpleasant for you. Either way out of basic decency and respect to me, I need you to tell me what it is. 

And then get her to talk. Don't let her change the subject. This isn't about work, about her schedule, about stress. This is an intensely personal and private part of her interaction pattern with you. And it is cruel for her to reject your plan and deny you the reason(s). 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On a separate but related note my W only hits the rapture maybe half the time we connect. Sometimes there are periods during which it is "less" than half the time. And yes that bothers me - but I accept that it isn't about me. But here's the kicker, my wonderful W is willing to connect with me 2-3 times a week. And I believe the reason for that is twofold: I treat her like gold (her words not mine) in and out of the bedroom and somehow I have learned to kiss, touch, hold her in a manner that she finds pleasing even sans the big O. 

If your W is hitting the O consistently, than perhaps you can work your way "backward". Meaning, of course she likes the ending. So what is it about the middle or the beginning that she doesn't like? 

If she already really does enjoy the beginning, middle and end. And if this entire issue is about her not liking the idea of "doing it" when she doesn't start out feeling desire, she needs to think about a few things:
- How painful this is for you and
- The fact that once a week is still a compromise. It is certainly less than you would like, but just as you won't begrudge her the other 6 nights of the week that you don't connect, she really should not begrudge you the one day or night that you do. 






confusedinlife said:


> Mem....you did not offend me and i appreciate your help...wife tried hormone cream for dryness and pain and it worked for awhile but then we changed to his and her lubricants and more replay...sex between us is still very very good and the always cums ...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Confused,
> The non-threatening, potentially enlightening conversation could go something like this.
> 
> I absolutely know that your intentions are not to cause me to feel unimportant and in so doing create a situation where I feel unloved. (you can be softer than unloved, but not so soft that she misunderstands how important this is).
> ...


thank you so much for trying to help...i am not sure that what you suggest will work but i will consider it...i have always been puzzled that since she obviously likes it when we do it and always climates you would think she would want it more....i am sure fatigue and stress are a big part..oh she is one year from retirement so that should help...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> thank you so much for trying to help...i am not sure that what you suggest will work but i will consider it...i have always been puzzled that since she obviously likes it when we do it and always climates you would think she would want it more....i am sure fatigue and stress are a big part..oh she is one year from retirement so that should help...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah well, men and women can have very different desires and responses to sex. It sounds like your wife has a more typical female responsive desire than a typical male's spontaneous desire. You are raring to go, but she starts out in a neutral position and feels the desire for sex after things get started.

The Truth about Female Desire | Psychology Today

If you learn about how she responds to sex, you may be able to 'up your game' with how you go about initiating sex. You can help lead her there.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

confusedinlife said:


> no sex is not the same as not enough sex....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would say not enough satifying sex is going to fall on the no sex side. Is it by a strict definition, probably not. However, the end result from infrequent and unsatisfying sex is the same as no sex. I know that if I have to get frustrated and angry before my wife notices she hasn't touched me or shown affection then gives a half hearted charity poke, it don't count. The "sexless" deficit remains.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Confused,
She likes the ending. That is what you know for sure. 

It is hard to imagine that she likes the "whole" experience and also understands how rejected once a month frequency makes you feel and yet - is unwilling to connect with you at a compromise frequency you would feel happy with. 

Does she take "summers" off from teaching? What is she like during the summer? What is she like when you two go on vacation? 

My W has "pain" from vulvodynia. That said, I love to spend an hour in bed with her giving/getting a full body massage. And then spooning and watching tv. Typically she will offer to "take care" of me, and almost half the time I decline as it is so one sided physically. However, I would have a very hard time if she was starving me and wouldn't tell me why other than trying to put it on general "life" stuff as our weekends are very open. 

The idea of "pressuring" your partner to do something they truly don't want to do goes against the grain for me. I am totally comfortable pressuring your partner to get them to tell you the truth. 



confusedinlife said:


> thank you so much for trying to help...i am not sure that what you suggest will work but i will consider it...i have always been puzzled that since she obviously likes it when we do it and always climates you would think she would want it more....i am sure fatigue and stress are a big part..oh she is one year from retirement so that should help...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Threetimesalady said:


> IMO, sex is one of the most powerful drugs in the world...


Maybe this is why lots of people appear treat it like heroin or crack cocaine, adopt a policy of absolute abstinence, and decide to "Just say no!":rofl:


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> Maybe this is why lots of people appear treat it like heroin or crack cocaine, adopt a policy of absolute abstinence, and decide to "Just say no!":rofl:



I've never done drugs, but I have tipped the bottle once or twice. Being in love is kind of like being drunk. Everything looks, sounds, feels, tastes better when your in love and someone loves you back. 

Recent studies have proven that the brain during sex/love (especially when you fall in love with someone) shows the same patterns in the brain as someone on cocaine. The good thing is love is legal, free and doesn't ruin your life, unless it goes wrong that is.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Confused,
> She likes the ending. That is what you know for sure.
> 
> It is hard to imagine that she likes the "whole" experience and also understands how rejected once a month frequency makes you feel and yet - is unwilling to connect with you at a compromise frequency you would feel happy with.
> ...


My wife is also in a tough profession. Sex was never a problem for the first few years. I was always sensitive and didn't push her on a hard day. I always have done a lot around the house including dinners and give her time to unwind. You know what the number one thing I hear about now? That's right, now the job is too much. I have all the respect in the world for teachers, police, nurses, military and similar hard careers. They certainly are something that has to be worked around. On the other hand, I don't think a wife or husband does right by their spouse if they are going to play the work card as a consistent get out of sex free card.


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## ICS_JOHN (Mar 6, 2012)

I have a similar situation, my wife found excuses not to have sex then when that issue (pulled muscles etc) got delt with it was something else. It has gotten to the point where any kind of sexual contact is a thing of the past ... urr past it wasnt much in the past. She was married before me and had gotten divorced over a year before we got together (before her divorce, I knew of her and she was married with kids).

Her and I sex life has ALWAYS been me trying and 1% of the time succeding. Orginally it was about the feeling of us being together why I wanted it. As the years have gone on now difficult times has been going anniversaries, and other moments without it, its no longer about being together. We now Watch tv or a movie etc. She and I are both active and healthy, and work out 5 days a week. 

So what do I do ... accept the fact after talks, arguments, fights, about it, that sex is over with my wife.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

ICS_JOHN said:


> I have a similar situation, my wife found excuses not to have sex then when that issue (pulled muscles etc) got delt with it was something else. It has gotten to the point where any kind of sexual contact is a thing of the past ... urr past it wasnt much in the past. She was married before me and had gotten divorced over a year before we got together (before her divorce, I knew of her and she was married with kids).
> 
> Her and I sex life has ALWAYS been me trying and 1% of the time succeding. Orginally it was about the feeling of us being together why I wanted it. As the years have gone on now difficult times has been going anniversaries, and other moments without it, its no longer about being together. We now Watch tv or a movie etc. She and I are both active and healthy, and work out 5 days a week.
> 
> So what do I do ... accept the fact after talks, arguments, fights, about it, that sex is over with my wife.


If you can, yes. If I could accept it, I wouldn't be here so I'm not one of those. If my wife never kept up with me or wasn't just as sex crazy about me as I was with her back in the day, I probably then it probably wouldn't have married her. I was in a previous LTR that was a sham including in the bedroom. That was on the top of my list of things to find in a mate (if I ever married again). It took more than 3 years before I ever took care of myself because she wasn't doing it for me completely, even on her period. It was a challenge at times to keep up. I loved it! 

Sex isn't the only thing a relationship can be built on. If that were the case, I'd still be with one of my absolutely nuts ex-gf's who were absolute nymphos and crazy as a mad hatter in the bedroom but weren't a good fit in other areas. In some ways I miss someone that loca but I don't need that to be happy. I don't need crazy but I do need someone who will not have the attitude that sex is something we do when every planet and star has been brought into perfect alignment by yours truly and off limits every other time.

I wish there was a magic pill to fix the mental blocks that a LD person puts up in a marriage to sex. It is so damaging and unnecessary but we can't control them. What we do is cope until we can't cope anymore. I'm at the point where I cant continue on this path unless something changes. I've been keeping the ball in my court, whining and complaining in a very un-manlike way. Hopefully, I'm going to put the ball in hers and have the courage to start walking towards the exit door. If she fights for me it was meant to be. I'm willing to turn around and meet her half way but I'm going to try to be a man. A man shouldn't sacrifice his being and happiness in return for misery. That's what I feel I'm doing and I have to stop. What she does I can't control. Hopefully it works out.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> I would say not enough satifying sex is going to fall on the no sex side. Is it by a strict definition, probably not. However, the end result from infrequent and unsatisfying sex is the same as no sex. I know that if I have to get frustrated and angry before my wife notices she hasn't touched me or shown affection then gives a half hearted charity poke, it don't count. The "sexless" deficit remains.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have never been given a charity poke...when we do have sex,it is always good...


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Threetimesalady said:


> Hi confusedinlife...Try and teach her to remember what she has forgotten...This is true with many women as they age.....Their mind tells them that they are growing old and no longer sexual....They in turn convince their body of this...It is completely a mind game...If she gets sore, get some Estring...It is awesome..Now to help train her, try waking up a little bit early in the morning....Try it a few times a week and work into what feels good.....While laying on your side and facing each other and without doing any foreplay, yet lubricating her vagina with astroglide or whatever she uses, insert your penis just slightly inside her vagina...Not deep penetration, but just enough so that you can grind...Now caress her insides with this in and out sexual motion...Don't try and push her into sex, just some awakening...Like you are still young and afraid to go all the way.....Make her remember how good it felt just being teased....Then pull out...
> 
> Try and talk her into this....Maybe three times a week or whatever you decide....You will probably find that in time she wants this as much as you do and smiles a lot......
> 
> IMO, sex is one of the most powerful drugs in the world...But, sometimes we women forget this important fact of life...We forget how good it felt and how empty we feel without it....Take care...


sounds great but unlikely to happen in the morning....I wish it would


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Confused,
> She likes the ending. That is what you know for sure.
> 
> It is hard to imagine that she likes the "whole" experience and also understands how rejected once a month frequency makes you feel and yet - is unwilling to connect with you at a compromise frequency you would feel happy with.
> ...


"It is hard to imagine that she likes the "whole" experience and also understands how rejected once a month frequency makes you feel and yet - is unwilling to connect with you at a compromise frequency you would feel happy with. "

That is exactly what is happening....She tells me she feels guilty about it ( yesterday she said she was not good at anything) but she seems unable to change it....


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> If you can, yes. If I could accept it, I wouldn't be here so I'm not one of those. If my wife never kept up with me or wasn't just as sex crazy about me as I was with her back in the day, I probably then it probably wouldn't have married her. I was in a previous LTR that was a sham including in the bedroom. That was on the top of my list of things to find in a mate (if I ever married again). It took more than 3 years before I ever took care of myself because she wasn't doing it for me completely, even on her period. It was a challenge at times to keep up. I loved it!
> 
> Sex isn't the only thing a relationship can be built on. If that were the case, I'd still be with one of my absolutely nuts ex-gf's who were absolute nymphos and crazy as a mad hatter in the bedroom but weren't a good fit in other areas. In some ways I miss someone that loca but I don't need that to be happy. I don't need crazy but I do need someone who will not have the attitude that sex is something we do when every planet and star has been brought into perfect alignment by yours truly and off limits every other time.
> 
> I wish there was a magic pill to fix the mental blocks that a LD person puts up in a marriage to sex. It is so damaging and unnecessary but we can't control them. What we do is cope until we can't cope anymore. I'm at the point where I cant continue on this path unless something changes. I've been keeping the ball in my court, whining and complaining in a very un-manlike way. Hopefully, I'm going to put the ball in hers and have the courage to start walking towards the exit door. If she fights for me it was meant to be. I'm willing to turn around and meet her half way but I'm going to try to be a man. A man shouldn't sacrifice his being and happiness in return for misery. That's what I feel I'm doing and I have to stop. What she does I can't control. Hopefully it works out.



"I wish there was a magic pill to fix the mental blocks that a LD person puts up in a marriage to sex. It is so damaging and unnecessary but we can't control them. What we do is cope until we can't cope anymore. I'm at the point where I cant continue on this path unless something changes. I've been keeping the ball in my court, whining and complaining in a very un-manlike way. Hopefully, I'm going to put the ball in hers and have the courage to start walking towards the exit door. If she fights for me it was meant to be. I'm willing to turn around and meet her half way but I'm going to try to be a man. A man shouldn't sacrifice his being and happiness in return for misery. That's what I feel I'm doing and I have to stop. What she does I can't control. Hopefully it works out.[/QUOTE]"

this is exactly how I feel...


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

ICS_JOHN said:


> I have a similar situation, my wife found excuses not to have sex then when that issue (pulled muscles etc) got delt with it was something else. It has gotten to the point where any kind of sexual contact is a thing of the past ... urr past it wasnt much in the past. She was married before me and had gotten divorced over a year before we got together (before her divorce, I knew of her and she was married with kids).
> 
> Her and I sex life has ALWAYS been me trying and 1% of the time succeding. Orginally it was about the feeling of us being together why I wanted it. As the years have gone on now difficult times has been going anniversaries, and other moments without it, its no longer about being together. We now Watch tv or a movie etc. She and I are both active and healthy, and work out 5 days a week.
> 
> So what do I do ... accept the fact after talks, arguments, fights, about it, that sex is over with my wife.


so you don't have sex at all?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> Rightly or wrongly, people actually do. Generally though, the lack of sex is a symptom of worse things. Like people don't die of fevers, they die of the things that CAUSE fevers.


I don't think the lack of sex is a symptom of anything else in our case....just wish I could find a cure...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> "It is hard to imagine that she likes the "whole" experience and also understands how rejected once a month frequency makes you feel and yet - is unwilling to connect with you at a compromise frequency you would feel happy with. "
> 
> That is exactly what is happening....She tells me she feels guilty about it ( yesterday she said she was not good at anything) but she seems unable to change it....


Why is she unable to change it?

You mentioned work schedule but that still allows for the weekends.

You mentioned she tried progesterone cream so does that mean she is having post menopausal problems? My wife also uses progesterone cream and she says it helps tremendously. Our sex life never dropped but she did say her enjoyment decreased somewhat until she started using the cream.

I'm unclear what the reasons are she is giving you as to why she cannot change the frequency of your sexual encounters? Is it that she can't change it or she just doesn't consider it important enough to want to change it?

Believe it or not we are trying to help here. If I am terse at points it is because it just burns me sometimes that spouses are so selfish as to not care about the other's happiness and well being.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Why is she unable to change it?
> 
> You mentioned work schedule but that still allows for the weekends.
> 
> ...


I honestly believe she does not have the energy, for one, and her drive is just not there as much as mine is.....


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Why is she unable to change it?
> 
> You mentioned work schedule but that still allows for the weekends.
> 
> ...


I know you are trying to help...I am telling you that there are many other ways my wife shows she loves me that in the long run matter more than sexual contact....those qualities will always be there for me...that is worth the frustration I am currently dealing with...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I know you are trying to help...I am telling you that there are many other ways my wife shows she loves me that in the long run matter more than sexual contact....those qualities will always be there for me...that is worth the frustration I am currently dealing with...


I am not trying to be rude so please do not take it as such. What qualities are so good...what does she do for you that is so above and beyond that holding back sex is acceptable to you? I just can't fathom it.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I honestly believe she does not have the energy, for one, and her drive is just not there as much as mine is.....


My wife and I get up at 5:30 every day. We both work full time. In fact we both usually work later. We also own rental property so we are frequently busy after work dealing with that. It's like we both have a second job. We generally only get 5 hours of sleep on weekday evenings. We both exercise and take care of ourselves because we know that if we didn't we would not feel good and wouldn't be healthy for ourselves or each other. We take multi-vitamins and other supplements if we feel it necessary.

If my wife told me continually that she was simply too tired for sex, that would indicate to me that either she wasn't interested in me (attracted to me, wanting to please me, etc.) or that she just wasn't taking care of herself which again I would have a big problem with. We are not that different age wise so I'm just not seeing too tired as a viable excuse.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> I am not trying to be rude so please do not take it as such. What qualities are so good...what does she do for you that is so above and beyond that holding back sex is acceptable to you? I just can't fathom it.


I am tolerating the lack of sex because I value the innumerable ways she cares for me outside of the bedroom. I have been physically ill for extended periods of time and she was always there caring for me. What I am saying is that while sex is impt, there are other things of more lasting value.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi confused ~

I totally understand tired - but I have really severe thyroid problems that are often hard to get regulated. I'll be okay for a while, then it'll go whacky again. As such, I will say that it does affect my abilities - as during the down times I can become quite lethargic. If she's reasonably healthy, is there a reason why she won't engage with you in other intimate activities, even if she is not up to full-blown intercourse?

There was a question asked before - does she have the summers off - and if so, is she more in to it then?

I guess the thing is - how far are you willing to push it? From your responses, you don't seem that you really want to try and engage your wife too much in addressing the mis-match - you value other things that she does for you.

And that is fine, but if that is the case for you, then you need to make peace with it. If you well and truly are not fine with it, then you will need to think about what your boundaries are and how far you would want to go to address the issue, as your wife is unlikely to address it of her own volition, or she would have by now.

Have you two ever looked into any kind of marriage enrichment activities together? There are seminars, web-based sites, books, activities through churches if you attend one, etc.

Best wishes.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I am tolerating the lack of sex because I value the innumerable ways she cares for me outside of the bedroom. I have been physically ill for extended periods of time and she was always there caring for me. What I am saying is that while sex is impt, there are other things of more lasting value.


Ok, I feel like I'm touching a nerve here. Something that was not my intention and certainly something I don't want to do. I'll conclude by asking you if what you wife does for you is anything more than you should expect from your spouse? For example, you have been ill for extended periods of time. Isn't that covered by "in sickness and in health?" Shouldn't a wife take care of an ill husband?

I want you to ask yourself if she is really that much better than a wife should be? Does she really do that much more than what should be expected? Or have your expectations just been lowered to the point that you'll accept any act of kindness as an excuse for her to not meet one of your core needs?

Good luck my friend.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Ok, I feel like I'm touching a nerve here. Something that was not my intention and certainly something I don't want to do. I'll conclude by asking you if what you wife does for you is anything more than you should expect from your spouse? For example, you have been ill for extended periods of time. Isn't that covered by "in sickness and in health?" Shouldn't a wife take care of an ill husband?
> 
> I want you to ask yourself if she is really that much better than a wife should be? Does she really do that much more than what should be expected? Or have your expectations just been lowered to the point that you'll accept any act of kindness as an excuse for her to not meet one of your core needs?
> 
> Good luck my friend.


It really boils down to this....complaining has not and will not increase the sex frequency..it just seems to make her feel like she knows she should be doing it more but for whatever reason she is not...she KNOWS I want it more, ok? Now, I could say " I am leaving you if I don't get more sex"....then where would I be? Do I want to have to threaten her like that? What that says to her is that sex is THE most impt thing between us and I am willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING else we have together to get it.....I just CAN'T do that...

And yes the marriage vows do cover in sickness and in health but I do think many spouses don't realize how hard it is to care for someone who is ill....

Plus, do I really want to start dating again at 60? Move out of our home into an apt? My whole life would change over what???? Not enough sex????? Just does not make sense...

I know that my wife loves me deeply....yes, I'd like more sex.....and life goes on...


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> Hi confused ~
> 
> I totally understand tired - but I have really severe thyroid problems that are often hard to get regulated. I'll be okay for a while, then it'll go whacky again. As such, I will say that it does affect my abilities - as during the down times I can become quite lethargic. If she's reasonably healthy, is there a reason why she won't engage with you in other intimate activities, even if she is not up to full-blown intercourse?
> 
> ...


I have addresses my concerns with my wife many times and she continues to say she is doing the best she can...I am doing my best to make peace with that....please read my other response....thanks so much for helping...

I am working on non intercourse sex...we really don't do much of that..


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> It really boils down to this....complaining has not and will not increase the sex frequency..it just seems to make her feel like she knows she should be doing it more but for whatever reason she is not...she KNOWS I want it more, ok? Now, I could say " I am leaving you if I don't get more sex"....then where would I be? Do I want to have to threaten her like that? What that says to her is that sex is THE most impt thing between us and I am willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING else we have together to get it.....I just CAN'T do that...
> 
> And yes the marriage vows do cover in sickness and in health but I do think many spouses don't realize how hard it is to care for someone who is ill....
> 
> ...


In 2005 my wife went in for a routine surgical procedure (not that any surgical procedure is really routine). The surgery was outpatient and she was home the same day. A couple of days later she was not feeling well and had a slight temperature. The doctor assured us that it wasn't anything to worry about but to monitor her condition. You have to understand that my wife is a tough little Irish lass and never complains about anything so its often hard to judge how she is really feeling. Anyway within 24 hours she was rushed back to the hospital with an extremely high fever and severe complications. She had picked up an infection during her surgery and it had spread hard and quick. She almost died. She was in the hospital for about a week before they sent her home. Unfortunately the infection had spread to the point that she was going to need intravenous antibiotic every 4 hours. This meant she would need to be hooked up to an IV drip 24/7. She would also need to have blood drawn periodically to monitor her cell counts. Our insurance did not cover home health care so I had to learn how to clean her pic line, how to set up an intravenous drip, how to draw blood and store it in the fridge until the courier picked it up. To top it off because my wife had to have a pic line for all this she was essentially bedridden. I had to feed her, wash her, clean her and of course spend time with her since she was extremely depressed as you can well imagine. All this and take care of the house, the bills, the kids and go to work.

This went on for three months. Was is hard? Damned right it was. Was I frustrated? In private I would be. Around my wife and kids I was all smiles. I will say I often cried when I was alone but nobody ever knew. My wife kept saying how sorry she was and kept thanking me. I told her the only thanks I needed was for her to concentrate on getting better. When she finally recovered she again thanked me for everything. I told her that this was the only time we were going to talk about it. I told her that no thanks were necessary. As her husband it was my job and I did what was needed. I told her we never needed to discuss it ever again because I would do it again for as long as necessary because I loved her. She has never thanked me again and I don't want her to.

This was a difficult period for our marriage and for our family but I prefer to focus on the things I learned and not on the unpleasantness of those months. I feel we grew closer and were able to bond even more than before. After all I had a captive audience. I never hold it over her head. I would never think of doing such a thing. The thought of someone using a serious illness to influence another is unconscionable. My caring for my wife does not entitle me to a get out of jail free card. She still calls me out on my attitude and behavior when I screw up. And I do screw up. If she didn't I would lose respect for her.

So I do know what it is like to care for someone who is seriously ill. I am not a hero. I do not deserve a reward or any undue consideration. I did what I had to and am grateful every day to be able to share my life with my wife. That is my gift. Nothing more. We still interact as we always have. We still look to provide for each others needs. We try to understand each other and nourish our marriage every day. After all, what is the point of promising to be with someone for life if you don't want to make that shared life the best it can be.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

i am sorry to hear what your wife endured and am glad you took such good care of her...what is the comment about holding it over her head all about! And the free pass comment?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> i am sorry to hear what your wife endured and am glad you took such good care of her...what is the comment about holding it over her head all about! And the free pass comment?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry if I didn't make it clear. My point was that when your spouse is ill you take care of them. Nothing extra should be expected. Your wife shouldn't use it to influence your relationship (not that I believe she is) and you shouldn't feel obligated for what she did for you. She did what you would have done if the shoe was on the proverbial other foot. Don't feel beholden for what was undoubtedly a difficult time for both of you. It happened, you both dealt with it, move on. My wife felt she needed to continually thank me for what I did and I had to tell her in no way did she owe me anything other than a happy loving marriage, something we had before her illness and have continued to have after it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Confused,
The main point of making a schedule is to create time for you two to be together - and touching. Given the anxiety she feels about this, you can make a soft "transition" to spending intimate time together by completely removing the pressure of sex the first couple weeks you do this. You can have some fun with that concept. Be playful. 

You could make it like a contract - a funny contract. That you both sign. 

Purpose of contract: To schedule two 90 minute PG-13 intimacy makeout sessions which will exclude: intercourse, orgasms and any touching below the waist. 

*Schedule:*
Session 1 - 3/18/2012 from 4 PM to 5:30 PM
Session 2 - 3/25/2012 at 4 PM to 5:30 PM

*Initial Attire:*
His: Shorts over boxers and t-shirt (no socks as they look ridiculous without shoes)
Hers: t-shirt, panties (negligee optional)

*Minimal Required Attire: *
His (boxers)
Hers (panties or negligee)

*Verbalizations Allowed:*
- Talking
- Joking
- Laughing 
- Playing truth or dare

*Verbalizations Prohibited:*
- Yelling
- Moaning
- Dirty talk 

*Touching Allowed:*
- Kissing
- Hugging
- Back massage
- Front massage (only upon request from your partner)

*Touching Prohibited:*
- Below the waist
- Slobbery kisses





confusedinlife said:


> It really boils down to this....complaining has not and will not increase the sex frequency..it just seems to make her feel like she knows she should be doing it more but for whatever reason she is not...she KNOWS I want it more, ok? Now, I could say " I am leaving you if I don't get more sex"....then where would I be? Do I want to have to threaten her like that? What that says to her is that sex is THE most impt thing between us and I am willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING else we have together to get it.....I just CAN'T do that...
> 
> And yes the marriage vows do cover in sickness and in health but I do think many spouses don't realize how hard it is to care for someone who is ill....
> 
> ...


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Confused, I read that you did answer the question.

_Plus, do I really want to start dating again at 60? Move out of our home into an apt? My whole life would change over what???? Not enough sex????? Just does not make sense..._

You would choose to accept, *at your age*, staying where you are, with the securities of the home, not being single, etc. Sometimes I read that women do this. You are willing to settle, trade off for the life you have. That's your call, I don't see anything wrong with it, at your age. I'm just not sure a 25-35 year old guy could do the same thing. How old is your wife? Did her medical conditions improve?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

deejov said:


> Confused, I read that you did answer the question.
> 
> _Plus, do I really want to start dating again at 60? Move out of our home into an apt? My whole life would change over what???? Not enough sex????? Just does not make sense..._
> 
> You would choose to accept, *at your age*, staying where you are, with the securities of the home, not being single, etc. Sometimes I read that women do this. You are willing to settle, trade off for the life you have. That's your call, I don't see anything wrong with it, at your age. I'm just not sure a 25-35 year old guy could do the same thing. How old is your wife? Did her medical conditions improve?


Women do what? I do not think I am settling. I am accepting what I cannot change at the present time. I have been married for 20 years and I still love my wife. My wife is 61 and has no medical condition. Please read the entire thread.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> Married 28 yrs, I'm 54 & wife is just slightly younger than your wife.
> 
> I love her with all my heart, we have had a great marriage. It will continue to be great.
> 
> ...


Don't accept huh? Easy for you to say....

I either accept or leave.....I suppose you would leave...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> Don't accept huh? Easy for you to say....
> 
> I either accept or leave.....I suppose you would leave...


That bitterness you are continually displaying to posters trying to help you is exactly why you shouldn't rug sweep this issue with your wife. The resentment you are feeling comes across very clearly I'm afraid.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> That bitterness you are continually displaying to posters trying to help you is exactly why you shouldn't rug sweep this issue with your wife. The resentment you are feeling comes across very clearly I'm afraid.


That was not bitterness..it is practicality.....I am tired of being told what I should not tolerate....I have explained my frustrations and my reasons for staying....

I would hope that nothing ever happens to any of your wives where sex is reduced because apparently that would end many marriages here...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Beowulf said:


> I really think women do not understand or really want to accept how important sex is for a man. As I explained in another thread without sex it is hard for a man to even want to try to meet the woman's needs when she is obviously not trying to meet yours. Unfortunately sometimes it takes a separation or threat of divorce to make them see the light. I think the fact that a woman does not even care to meet the man's needs shows there is a problem with the marriage whether it is communication, resentment or whatever. I wouldn't ignore the problem and just accept it because all you are doing is letting the wound fester and once the kids are grown you will have built up a lot of resentment. Inevitably you will end up divorced and a lot older with very little good to show for your patience. The fact is in 10 or twenty years nobody is going to pat you on the back and say "well you stuck it out for the kids...good job."


The shoe is on the other foot too.

There are many men who do not understand how important sex is to a woman (and the intimacy involved) - there are a lot of men that do the rejecting...it's not just women.

I'm married to a man who does the rejecting. Lots of reasons why, depression, health issues, ED, you name it. While I have come to accept and understand that for him, a lot of it is not his fault, that doesn't make the rejection any easier or the lack of intimacy feel any better.

But, I have learned to understand. In learning to understand and accept, some of the pressure and disappointment is off the both of us and interestingly enough, leads to better intimacy and more connection when it does happen.

Luckily for me, this didn't happen until he started to age and have health problems, I really feel for the women that experience this rejection early on in marriage when they are young.

Not easier to accept when you're older, but at least you have something to fall back on.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

confusedinlife said:


> That was not bitterness..it is practicality.....I am tired of being told what I should not tolerate....I have explained my frustrations and my reasons for staying....
> 
> I would hope that nothing ever happens to any of your wives where sex is reduced because apparently that would end many marriages here...


Agree!

We can all say what we "would do" if we were faced with certain choices and circumstances, but we really don't know what we "would really do" unless that choice was real and not just a supposition.

I too have been faced with the choice. And I am staying...why...because my husband's health issues are not his fault and the resulting hit on our sex life is a result of issues of which most, he cannot control.

My marriage, while very healthy at one time and involving lots of sex is not so much anymore. Does that mean I now jump ship when he needs me the most because he can't perform sexually at the snap of a finger anymore? Was my marriage based on lust only and not love?

Hell no, it wasn't. If it was, then I'd be gone, but it wasn't and I love him, sex or not. So I have accepted, adjusted and helped him to improve things because as I've discovered, he really wants to, but the flesh won't always cooperate so we compromise and do what works and I don't pressure him when it doesn't.

I would hope (really hope), that if the situation was reversed, he would do the same for me.

So ignore those that say they wouldn't stand for it, etc., because they are not actually facing that situation, when and if it happens, they could be singing a different tune.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Agree!
> 
> We can all say what we "would do" if we were faced with certain choices and circumstances, but we really don't know what we "would really do" unless that choice was real and not just a supposition.
> 
> ...


amen....well said...I totally agree....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Agree!
> 
> We can all say what we "would do" if we were faced with certain choices and circumstances, but we really don't know what we "would really do" unless that choice was real and not just a supposition.
> 
> ...


I agree with this, provide that my spouse is making reasonable attempts to remedy the situation and for reasonable reasons beyond their control, could not do so. If she is making that effort, then I am in it for the long-haul, regardless of the sex.

Merely deciding that sex no longer interests them, my needs be [email protected], does not fit that scenario. If my wife could physically have sex, but chose not to because it and my happiness were not important, that would be a big issue for me and my marriage. Your milage may vary.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I agree with this, provide that my spouse is making reasonable attempts to remedy the situation and for reasonable reasons beyond their control, could not do so. If she is making that effort, then I am in it for the long-haul, regardless of the sex.
> 
> Merely deciding that sex no longer interests them, my needs be [email protected], does not fit that scenario. If my wife could physically have sex, but chose not to because it and my happiness were not important, that would be a big issue for me and my marriage. Your milage may vary.


And that is exactly my point. This issue may well go beyond just sex. There may be a fundamental problem with the marriage that has simply not come to a head yet.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> The shoe is on the other foot too.
> 
> There are many men who do not understand how important sex is to a woman (and the intimacy involved) - there are a lot of men that do the rejecting...it's not just women.
> 
> ...


If you look at my posts in some of the other threads I have/am posting in you will see that I do not differentiate between make and female blame for the problems whether they be sex, affection, communication etc. The problem is not the specific need that is not being met. It is the reason that need is not being met whatever that need may be. I am sorry that you are also going through a rough time regarding an issue with marital sex. You mention that your husband is having medical issues. As long as he is addressing them adequately then I see no reason for resentment. Disappointment yes. The problem lies when a spouse doesn't make the effort to understand and address the unfulfilled needs of their spouse.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Agree!
> 
> We can all say what we "would do" if we were faced with certain choices and circumstances, but we really don't know what we "would really do" unless that choice was real and not just a supposition.
> 
> ...


Your husband has health issues. That is the reason for his not being able to perform. If my wife could no longer have sex for health related issues I would not divorce her. However, if she just simply said she was too tired to meet my needs, she knows I wouldn't stand for it. That is wholly unacceptable in my opinion. If a spouse just doesn't consider your needs important enough to fulfill then I don't see that as a healthy marriage going forward.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

deejov said:


> Confused, I read that you did answer the question.
> 
> _Plus, do I really want to start dating again at 60? Move out of our home into an apt? My whole life would change over what???? Not enough sex????? Just does not make sense..._
> 
> You would choose to accept, *at your age*, staying where you are, with the securities of the home, not being single, etc. Sometimes I read that women do this. You are willing to settle, trade off for the life you have. That's your call, I don't see anything wrong with it, at your age. I'm just not sure a 25-35 year old guy could do the same thing. How old is your wife? Did her medical conditions improve?


Why are people acting like someone who is 60 is at death's door? I'm not quite 60 but I certainly don't feel my life is all but over. My father is still alive and at 92 he still hugs, grabs and fondles my mother. I haven't asked him lately if they are still having sex and I don't think I want to know the answer but I figure when I turn 60 I have another 30-35 years of sex life still in me. I don't even want to contemplate 30 days without sex. I'd be damned if I go 30 years without sex.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Why are people acting like someone who is 60 is at death's door? I'm not quite 60 but I certainly don't feel my life is all but over. My father is still alive and at 92 he still hugs, grabs and fondles my mother. I haven't asked him lately if they are still having sex and I don't think I want to know the answer but I figure when I turn 60 I have another 30-35 years of sex life still in me. I don't even want to contemplate 30 days without sex. I'd be damned if I go 30 years without sex.


"I don't even want to contemplate 30 days without sex."

Oh man......one day you may have to...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> "I don't even want to contemplate 30 days without sex."
> 
> Oh man......one day you may have to...


You may very well be correct. But one thing I can guarantee. It will be because she can't, not because she won't. And even if she can't there are other ways to stay intimate and have sexual relations other than vaginal intercourse. You can be sure we will utilize those alternatives thoroughly.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> You may very well be correct. But one thing I can guarantee. It will be because she can't, not because she won't. And even if she can't there are other ways to stay intimate and have sexual relations other than vaginal intercourse. You can be sure we will utilize those alternatives thoroughly.


Right..because if she won't you are gone....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> I believe that many men would agree with Beowulf's last post.
> 
> Doesn't mean that all men would. There are always exceptions.
> Big difference between a woman that can't vs a woman that
> can but won't.


Depends on why she won't.....lots of reasons fir sure....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> Depends on why she won't.....lots of reasons fir sure....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There may be many reasons but they all lead back to the same thing...lack of respect.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> There may be many reasons but they all lead back to the same thing...lack of respect.


disagree.....


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> Right..because if she won't you are gone....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let me ask you this. What is your wife's greatest need? Is it financial support. Is it communication? Is it honesty?

Here are Dr. Harley's 10 needs.

Sexual Fulfillment
Affection
Conversation
Honesty and Openness
Recreational Companionship
Physical Attractiveness
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration
Financial Support

Which one would your wife say is her #1 need?

For my wife its conversation. She and I talk for hours. She needs that time to bond with me to make her happy. So I do it.

If I were to act like your wife I would tell her that I was too tired to talk to her. I would tell her I'm doing my best. I might give her the excuse that my job is stressful. Maybe I'd only speak to her once a month. I'd give her the silent treatment the other 29 days. How do you think she'd react? Would we stay together? Would we be happy?

Try taking away your wife's #1 need and see how she reacts. I bet it won't be well. And don't give me that crap about how sex is different than the other needs. That's a line you've been fed for so long you can't even see how silly it sounds. The fact is she doesn't care to make an effort and you're accepting it. That's your choice but it isn't the choice most people would make.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

apparently lots of people make my choice...look at all the people in low sex/no sex marriages....

you are suggesting I punish her to get more sex....damage what is working to get what is not working.....


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> apparently lots of people make my choice...look at all the people in low sex/no sex marriages....
> 
> you are suggesting I punish her to get more sex....damage what is working to get what is not working.....


What *is* working? I asked before and the only answer I got was "she took care of me when I was ill". If that's all you have to base your relationship on then I don't know what to say.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> apparently lots of people make my choice...look at all the people in low sex/no sex marriages....
> 
> you are suggesting I punish her to get more sex....damage what is working to get what is not working.....


No, just recognize that she places your needs and happiness at a lower priority, and take care of yourself accordingly. Since she is not interested in that job, you need to step up and do it. Part of that will mean taking less care of her, but that is only a natural result of her decision.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> What *is* working? I asked before and the only answer I got was "she took care of me when I was ill". If that's all you have to base your relationship on then I don't know what to say.


all these are working...

Affection
Conversation
Honesty and Openness
Recreational Companionship
Physical Attractiveness
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration
Financial Support


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> No, just recognize that she places your needs and happiness at a lower priority, and take care of yourself accordingly. Since she is not interested in that job, you need to step up and do it. Part of that will mean taking less care of her, but that is only a natural result of her decision.


That is pretty much what I am doing.....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> all these are working...
> 
> Affection
> Conversation
> ...


Where does sex rank in here? Are these your highest needs and sex is at the bottom?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Where does sex rank in here? Are these your highest needs and sex is at the bottom?


for me it is pretty high....thus the problem...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> all these are working...
> 
> Affection
> Conversation
> ...


How is she affectionate to/with you?

How does she show her admiration of you?

How is she your recreational companion?

I think if you spent as much time working on your problem as you do excusing her behavior you'd make more progress.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> for me it is pretty high....thus the problem...


Are all of those things that are recipricol things that she values? That is, are these top needs of hers that you are meeting?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> How is she affectionate to/with you?
> 
> How does she show her admiration of you?
> 
> ...


Now you are pissing me off...of course i am working onthe problem...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Are all of those things that are recipricol things that she values? That is, are these top needs of hers that you are meeting?


I would say that they are
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> Now you are pissing me off...of course i am working onthe problem...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then stop excusing her.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Then stop excusing her.


And what?tell her its more sex or i am gone? I am not you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

As has been noted in _His Needs, Her Needs_, it is usual that a woman's top 5 needs are the man's bottom 5 needs and vice versa (but not always). When my wife and I each listed our needs we were a little surprised at where some of the needs were placed on each other's list.

I knew conversation and affection were high on her list but I was mildly surprised at how high she listed physical attractiveness. I never knew she held it that highly. Thankfully I have always kept myself in pretty good shape but it did lead to a discussion on how I had let myself go in the dress code department. I stepped up and began dressing better around her and she appreciated it greatly.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> And what?tell her its more sex or i am gone? I am not you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Excuse: Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.

How can you be doing that and working on a solution? My friend always told me that excuses are like a*holes. Everyone has one and they usually stink. Rather than accept excuses work on solutions.

Get the books that have been suggested. Try the things Mem suggested. Don't allow it to continue by accepting it as inevitable.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I would say that they are
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you are meeting all of her top needs, while she is refusing to meet one of your top needs.

What reason(s) does she give for not wanting sex? Are there any physical or medical conditions that complicate things? What is she doing about them? What about family or financial issues? Be specific and expand. Frankly, these one line answers are like pulling teeth (unless you really don't want any help).


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> So you are meeting all of her top needs, while she is refusing to meet one of your top needs.
> 
> What reason(s) does she give for not wanting sex? Are there any physical or medical conditions that complicate things? What is she doing about them? What about family or financial issues? Be specific and expand. Frankly, these one line answers are like pulling teeth (unless you really don't want any help).


If you read some of my previous posts, I think I have answered some of your questions. If not, ask againand I will attempt to reply.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> If you read some of my previous posts, I think I have answered some of your questions. If not, ask againand I will attempt to reply.


Actually, I have read some of your other posts and have not seen an explanation, so if you could give it again, it would help. Why does she not want to have sex? What reasons does she give? What words does she use?


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

confusedinlife said:


> apparently lots of people make my choice...look at all the people in low sex/no sex marriages....
> 
> you are suggesting I punish her to get more sex....damage what is working to get what is not working.....


Rather than use the damage word, I would put it another way. Don't enable bad behavior. It putting your foot down or doing something that is going to cause a bottom or moment of clarity going to hurt, yeah it is. What's worse, years upon years of little things adding up to much more hurt or ripping off the bandaid and letting the wound breathe/heal?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> Rather than use the damage word, I would put it another way. Don't enable bad behavior. It putting your foot down or doing something that is going to cause a bottom or moment of clarity going to hurt, yeah it is. What's worse, years upon years of little things adding up to much more hurt or ripping off the bandaid and letting the wound breathe/heal?


i am unclear what you are suggesting that i try...can you clarify?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Confused,
At risk of being tiresome I will repeat my suggestion. Get your W to commit to spending time with you in bed - kissing, hugging and lightly touching each other - with the understanding that you aren't going to have sex. If doing that will simply leave you feeling frustrated - then utilize a manual override immediately after your "session" with her. 

The reason for doing that is simple, if your W truly has some sort of "aversion" to lying next to you semi-clothed, and kissing and lightly touching each other, you need to know that so you can figure out why. Because if you cannot solve that problem, your sex life will never improve. 




confusedinlife said:


> i am unclear what you are suggesting that i try...can you clarify?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Confused,
> At risk of being tiresome I will repeat my suggestion. Get your W to commit to spending time with you in bed - kissing, hugging and lightly touching each other - with the understanding that you aren't going to have sex. If doing that will simply leave you feeling frustrated - then utilize a manual override immediately after your "session" with her.
> 
> 
> ...


She has no problem doing this when we are intimate
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> She has no problem doing this when we are intimate
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think what Mem is suggesting is that you get her to commit to doing this a couple of times a week at least, even if it doesn't lead to sex. In fact, let her know that you do not expect sex but you just want to be close and intimate with your wife.

My wife and I have a great sex life. But even we can't be "doing it" every hour of every day. When we watch a movie we not only snuggle but sometimes I touch her intimately if you get my meaning. At other times she initiates intimate contact with me. 

We are in physical contact many many times every day. When we kiss not only do we use the peck kiss but we also frequently do what is called the 10 second kiss. The idea is that at 8-10 seconds a real bonding occurs. I know I feel it and judging by my wife's body language she does as well.

The point is that there are things you can do to try to re-bond physically with your wife. But you have to want to try and she has to be willing. From what you've said she does love you and feels bad so I can't see why she wouldn't be willing.

Edit: My wife Morrigan just made this suggestion. Get some books on massage techniques. If your wife complains she is too tired, stressed or sore for sex offer to give her a massage. I do that all the time for Morrigan and it really relaxes her and relieves her stress. It also has the added benefit of involving touch which is proven to release oxytocin, the brain hormone that promotes bonding and reduces anxiety. Plus, everyone knows that in order to give a good massage you have to be nude.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Beowulf,
Thank you. That was exactly it. And - your routine with your W is remarkably similar to mine with mine. We have a super high touch marriage. But I don't do my part to "get" sex. More on that later, the high touch is an end in itself. 

Confused,
You keep telling me: my W likes this part and that part and the other part. You may be right. This could solely be an 'ignition' issue. Meaning she doesn't grasp the idea of relaxing and letting you slowly warm her up. 

The purpose of my suggestion is simple. It is intended to be non-threatening and very low pressure. And indeed it should actually play out just that way - for her. Low pressure, non-threatening and easy to agree to. And that is part of the point. If your W steadfastly refuses to do "this", something is off. And gently but firmly you need to find out what that is. 

And the massage idea Beowulf suggested is very important. It increases her association with "touch" and "positive emotion". 

Why are you hesitant to go down this route? I only ask because it seems likely that over time your W is going to end up in a very different place mentally. And that place looks something like this. 

Once a week me and H get in bed and kiss/touch. If I get aroused and want to proceed, we do and it is even better. If for some reason I don't get aroused, then we don't proceed. And that seems to be ok with him, and puts no pressure on me. 






Beowulf said:


> I think what Mem is suggesting is that you get her to commit to doing this a couple of times a week at least, even if it doesn't lead to sex. In fact, let her know that you do not expect sex but you just want to be close and intimate with your wife.
> 
> My wife and I have a great sex life. But even we can't be "doing it" every hour of every day. When we watch a movie we not only snuggle but sometimes I touch her intimately if you get my meaning. At other times she initiates intimate contact with me.
> 
> ...


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## Happyagain39 (Mar 15, 2012)

I recently moved out and into my own place to show I can't go on with a husband that wouldnt touch me anymore. Alot of my problems with my husband were the same-I just couldnt believe that I was suffering in a sexless marriage. I was embarrassed to talk to him about it, I was scared that he would tell me I was a pervert or that was all I thought about.

We have two little girls and even after taking care of them at night and after working 2 jobs, I still wanted intimacy or just straight up sex once in awhile. Weeks turned into months, I tried to occupy my nights with lots of library books until I was too tired to lay in bed alone and be upset. My husband was a sex camel! For me, being close and intimate keeps a bond that helps me get through life with maybe a little less stress. 

I believe a lot of affairs happen because of this issue-I sort of joke with my friends that he put on "false advertising" to trick me. I would have never married someone who was going to cut me off of all intimacy and still expect me to remain faithful, sexless and be damn happy about it. He was shocked when I finally meant what I said and moved out. I told him that when a beautiful woman who hasn't been touched by her own husband for months and is looking online for pills that would take away the most natural, sweet and loving thing in her life (besides my girls!) I knew it was time to take control of my happiness. Although I live alone and I am a single mom-still working those two jobs, I go to bed alone, but I dont cry anymore because there isn't a lazy slob sitting in the other room watching Jersey Shore-RE-RUNS! (That was even more insulting!!)

Do you what you can to get your happiness back-no matter what it takes!!!


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

confusedinlife said:


> i am unclear what you are suggesting that i try...can you clarify?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What I mean is that you think taking steps to stand up for yourself and not settle for the status quo will damage her. That's an enabling point of view. It's not about her, its about you. Eventually/ultimately it will be about your relationship and doing something difficult but respectful and constructive. I know that my past behavior with getting turned down was to turn over and be a passive aggressive @ss until I either left the bed or she decided to shut me up with a charity poke which I resent just as much as the refusal. That's not addressing the problem like a man. Its being a Nice guy, suppressing my feelings until I resent her for what is partially my issue. I'm still working out a better response. Am I going to threaten to leave her and cheat every time she turns me down? No that's being an even bigger NG @ss. If it is at the top of your need list like it is for me, then you need to tell her. Not in the heat of an argument, you should tell her the truth. 

If you feel like you would be tempted to cheat or leave if things continued the way they are, then be honest enough to say it. I've been practicing my conversation for a week. Hopefully I will not chicken out and man up like I need to. Im suggesting that you do the same. She will have more respect for you if your honest and you then give her more information to base her decisions on when she makes herself available to you.

What will hurt more? Being honest that you've considered it and communicate where you are or that you don't tell her, cheat and then she finds out and didn't give her the opportunity? Which path is better for your marriage and your desire to have sex with her?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

right now my wife is so stressed with schoolwork that giving her a sexual ultimatum is prob not wise...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Confused, you may want to read "when your sex drives don't match by sandra pertot" I'm about halway thru, and very insightful, has some very good ideas on how to approach her with out sounding like your are being critical of her and for both partners to actually understand where the other partner is coming from, (COMMUNICATION)once I'm done the wife is going to read it and do the work sheets....
> 
> I'm in the same boat as you, Wife told me she just dosent like sex, I was like ok, you used to, all the times before, pulling me in,calling my name etc that was all pretend? her reply was sometimes it was..
> She feels pressured to have sex and I feel pressured not to have sex. did the whole it's how I feel loved,connected etc etc talk.
> I read married mans sex primer, NMMNG etc, followed them all to no avail..distanced myself for about 2 weeks, no I love you's, no phyiscal affection, kisses etc and I'm the one that always initates those


yes it does seem we are in the same boat....I can identify with the "she feels pressured to have sex ad I feel pressured not to" situation...so do you feel the books will help change the situation? I'd read a whole effing library if I thought it would help....


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> What I mean is that you think taking steps to stand up for yourself and not settle for the status quo will damage her. That's an enabling point of view. It's not about her, its about you. Eventually/ultimately it will be about your relationship and doing something difficult but respectful and constructive. I know that my past behavior with getting turned down was to turn over and be a passive aggressive @ss until I either left the bed or she decided to shut me up with a charity poke which I resent just as much as the refusal. That's not addressing the problem like a man. Its being a Nice guy, suppressing my feelings until I resent her for what is partially my issue. I'm still working out a better response. Am I going to threaten to leave her and cheat every time she turns me down? No that's being an even bigger NG @ss. If it is at the top of your need list like it is for me, then you need to tell her. Not in the heat of an argument, you should tell her the truth.
> 
> If you feel like you would be tempted to cheat or leave if things continued the way they are, then be honest enough to say it. I've been practicing my conversation for a week. Hopefully I will not chicken out and man up like I need to. Im suggesting that you do the same. She will have more respect for you if your honest and you then give her more information to base her decisions on when she makes herself available to you.
> 
> What will hurt more? Being honest that you've considered it and communicate where you are or that you don't tell her, cheat and then she finds out and didn't give her the opportunity? Which path is better for your marriage and your desire to have sex with her?


I think we are in the same boat as well....


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> right now my wife is so stressed with schoolwork that giving her a sexual ultimatum is prob not wise...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So then give her a massage to relieve her stress as my wife Morrigan suggests. It will increase the frequency of touching and that may be beneficial down the road.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> So then give her a massage to relieve her stress as my wife Morrigan suggests. It will increase the frequency of touching and that may be beneficial down the road.



sometimes it is best to leave her alone....now is one of those times...now she knows I am looking forward to sex this weekend because I have gone through the usual routine of taping romantic shows from cable....we'll see what happens...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Actually, I have read some of your other posts and have not seen an explanation, so if you could give it again, it would help. Why does she not want to have sex? What reasons does she give? What words does she use?


You seemed to have missed my question, so I am asking again. Why is she not wanting sex?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> You seemed to have missed my question, so I am asking again. Why is she not wanting sex?


I really cannot totally explain it...I know she tires easily and is extremely stressed from her job plus her drive has never been as high as mine....that said, when we are intimate, she thoroughly enjoys it ( with some care as she does have some vaginal dryness issues which we address with lubricants and foreplay) and she climaxes every time....the thing I really don't like is that we have come to the point that she knows I want it so she tells me not to ask...so I hold out for as long as I can if she does not initiate,and then I end up asking.....it is not a lot of fun to be in limbo...at least it is better than knowing she does not want sex at all....


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I really cannot totally explain it...I know she tires easily and is extremely stressed from her job plus her drive has never been as high as mine....that said, when we are intimate, she thoroughly enjoys it ( with some care as she does have some vaginal dryness issues which we address with lubricants and foreplay) and she climaxes every time....the thing I really don't like is that we have come to the point that she knows I want it so she tells me not to ask...so I hold out for as long as I can if she does not initiate,and then I end up asking.....it is not a lot of fun to be in limbo...at least it is better than knowing she does not want sex at all....


Why are you asking for sex? I have never asked for sex. I just initiate contact and off we go to the races. Your approach seems a bit self defeatist in nature.

What would happen if you had sex and then...initiated sex the next night. What would she say or do?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> sometimes it is best to leave her alone....now is one of those times...now she knows I am looking forward to sex this weekend because I have gone through the usual routine of taping romantic shows from cable....we'll see what happens...


It sounds like you want to complain but don't want to take action to fix it. We'll see what happens? Really? How about you make it happen?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Why are you asking for sex? I have never asked for sex. I just initiate contact and off we go to the races. Your approach seems a bit self defeatist in nature.
> 
> What would happen if you had sex and then...initiated sex the next night. What would she say or do?


It used to come naturally...it does not anymore sorry to say....

My approach is the only thing that works nowadays....

You know it's easy for you to try and tell me how to handle my wife....what works for you does not work for everyone...


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> It sounds like you want to complain but don't want to take action to fix it. We'll see what happens? Really? How about you make it happen?



want to complain??????????????????????????

wtf do you think I have been doing??????????????????????????


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi confused ~

I think the gist out of all of these posts about your situation that I am getting is that if you are unhappy with the current status quo, then you need to try something different than what you currently are to try and change that.

It all just comes down to your willingness to try. Are you willing to try? If not, you can likely expect no change.

“_The only thing that stands between
a man and what he wants from life
is often merely the will to try it
and the faith to believe that it is possible.” ~ David Viscott _ 

Best wishes.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> Hi confused ~
> 
> I think the gist out of all of these posts about your situation that I am getting is that if you are unhappy with the current status quo, then you need to try something different than what you currently are to try and change that.
> 
> ...


willing to try of course....but I know instinctively what will not work....


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## reset button (Mar 14, 2012)

If your wife is taking hormonal birth control please encourage her to switch for a little while.
It ruined my sex life over the last fews years I was taking itand almost ruined my marriage, and caused me to hurt my husband deeply.
She will feel much better in all aspects if this is the case. Worth a try right?
My husband and I are now happier than ever. (he had vasectomy)
BestWishes.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> willing to try of course....but I know instinctively what will not work....


I don't think that is true. You think you do, but you don't know. What you do know is that what you have tried so far will not work. So why not try something different?

I will note that the "reasons" given by your wife would not be reasonable to me. There is nothing concrete beyond some amorphous feeling that she does not want sex. She is telling you that pleasing you is too much of a hassle and she does not want to do it. Not that she can't or that it would hurt, but that *she does not want to please you*.

You post about all her other wonderful qualities, but most if not all of those are recipricol. That is, doing those also causes you to directly meet her needs. So really, what she is saying is that if it requires effort, she can't be bothered. I would bet that if she was not getting something out of those other activities that you enjoy, she would not be doing those either. 

Think about it like the different levels of friends that you have. One lower level is the friend that will give you a ride somewhere because they are heading there as well. The other higher level is the friend that will give you a ride because you are their friend, and even though they aren't going to the airport, for example, they are happy to give you a lift and go out of their way because that is what friends do. 

In a good marriage, your wife should be in the latter category, not the former.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't think that is true. You think you do, but you don't know. What you do know is that what you have tried so far will not work. So why not try something different?
> 
> I will note that the "reasons" given by your wife would not be reasonable to me. There is nothing concrete beyond some amorphous feeling that she does not want sex. She is telling you that pleasing you is too much of a hassle and she does not want to do it. Not that she can't or that it would hurt, but that *she does not want to please you*.
> 
> ...



I am sorry but I know how guilty she feels for she knows she should be having sex more...I do not believe it is because she does not want to please me....that would be mean and she is not a mean person....

The reality is that no matter what she says or does, I cannot force her to have sex if the will is not there....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I am sorry but I know how guilty she feels for she knows she should be having sex more...I do not believe it is because she does not want to please me....that would be mean and she is not a mean person....
> 
> The reality is that no matter what she says or does, I cannot force her to have sex if the will is not there....


I did not say force her. I said take different approaches that may lead to success. If you don't want advice, just say so and I can stop wasting my time. You have been given great advice but have a thousand reasons not to even try. If you would rather just feel sorry for yourself, then have at it.

As a final note, she feels bad because you keep bothering her about the subject. She probably knows that she is being unfair on some level, but won't take the initiative to actually do anything about it. It is like the 400 lb man stuffing his face on the coach all the while bemoaning the fact that he is overweight. He knows what he has to do, but would rather continue on. He only feels guilty because someone is call him on his conduct. Based on what you have posted, your wife is not any different.

Edit - Also, I never said she was mean. I will say she sounds lazy and indifferent. She would rather have you hurt than put in effort to help you.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I did not say force her. I said take different approaches that may lead to success. If you don't want advice, just say so and I can stop wasting my time. You have been given great advice but have a thousand reasons not to even try. If you would rather just feel sorry for yourself, then have at it.
> 
> As a final note, she feels bad because you keep bothering her about the subject. She probably knows that she is being unfair on some level, but won't take the initiative to actually do anything about it. It is like the 400 lb man stuffing his face on the coach all the while bemoaning the fact that he is overweight. He knows what he has to do, but would rather continue on. He only feels guilty because someone is call him on his conduct. Based on what you have posted, your wife is not any different.


so how do i get her to change?


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## reset button (Mar 14, 2012)

I would cry myself to sleep quiety after turning my husband down because I knew it hurt him but still didn't want sex..

Please if she is taking any hormones/meds.. look into it.
We were absolutely SHOCKED at how stopping the pill changed our lives.

If her case if the same as mine, I was actually just as confused as he was as to why I felt that way, but you are too "depressed/strung out" to realize how serious it actually is to him. You love him and want to hold him but can't because it is like a "tease"

All you know is that you have no idea how to fix it.
I found out it was the pill on accident, best accident that ever happened to me. lol
Best wishes


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I did not say force her. I said take different approaches that may lead to success. If you don't want advice, just say so and I can stop wasting my time. You have been given great advice but have a thousand reasons not to even try. If you would rather just feel sorry for yourself, then have at it.
> 
> As a final note, she feels bad because you keep bothering her about the subject. She probably knows that she is being unfair on some level, but won't take the initiative to actually do anything about it. It is like the 400 lb man stuffing his face on the coach all the while bemoaning the fact that he is overweight. He knows what he has to do, but would rather continue on. He only feels guilty because someone is call him on his conduct. Based on what you have posted, your wife is not any different.
> 
> Edit - Also, I never said she was mean. I will say she sounds lazy and indifferent. She would rather have you hurt than put in effort to help you.


she is far from lazy....


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

reset button said:


> I would cry myself to sleep quiety after turning my husband down because I knew it hurt him but still didn't want sex..
> 
> Please if she is taking any hormones/meds.. look into it.
> We were absolutely SHOCKED at how stopping the pill changed our lives.
> ...


she is not on any pills...thanks for trying to help


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

I also know this..I joined this forum a week ago and every day I have been discussing this crap....my stress level has increased because of talking about it so much....I very much appreciate all the kind advice but I really need to step back from it.....it is keeping it in my mind even more than before....

Thanks again to all for trying to help...


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## reset button (Mar 14, 2012)

A check-up with her doctor still wouldn't hurt. Maybe she is depressed due to hormonal imbalance not caused by meds/birth control.
Again worth a shot.
Good Luck


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

reset button said:


> A check-up with her doctor still wouldn't hurt. Maybe she is depressed due to hormonal imbalance not caused by meds/birth control.
> Again worth a shot.
> Good Luck


I am the one that is depressed


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> willing to try of course....but I know instinctively what will not work....


Okay... I will say one more thing and then done for now. 

I think you are shooting yourself in the foot here - stopping yourself with justifications and excuses before you even get out the gate.

If you have already resigned yourself to losing the race because you just know you will lose the race, then why bother trying to post about how to win the race?

You can't change her, but you can change you - change your attitude up, change your perspective, change the actions that you are doing.

Why give up before you've even tried anything? What have you got to lose? What if you had everything to gain?

_“You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take.” -Wayne Gretzy_

Best wishes.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> Okay... I will say one more thing and then done for now.
> 
> I think you are shooting yourself in the foot here - stopping yourself with justifications and excuses before you even get out the gate.
> 
> ...


"You can't change her, but you can change you - change your attitude up, change your perspective, change the actions that you are doing."

Like?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> "You can't change her, but you can change you - change your attitude up, change your perspective, change the actions that you are doing."
> 
> Like?


Okay... I know I said I wasn't going to respond again, but I will, especially after reading some of your latest responses. 

You've been given a lot of good information from MEM, Beowolf, Beowolf's wife Morrigan (oh, my!), and TAG on specific ways to approach your wife and change the actions you are doing.

But, you mentioned that after being on TAM for awhile you've found it stressful and you are the one who is depressed.

Perhaps that is actually where you should start. If you feel depressed in general, have you gone to your doctor? Do you exercise everyday - can you take a walk everyday? That can help many people. Are you in good health - eat right, take care of yourself? Do you have your own hobbies and interests that you pursue?

Maybe you need to coddle yourself a little bit here to get to the point where you are in the frame of mind where you would feel better about things in general.

If you find TAM overwhelming, then curtail your time on it (I do that all the time. I cannot stand to be on it all the time.)

There needs to be balance and perspective in your life. Perhaps the first step in addressing your desires with your wife is really for you to get that balance and perspective back in your own life right now.

Best wishes.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> willing to try of course....but I know instinctively what will not work....


If you haven't tried it how do you know? I again state that you are defeating yourself before you begin.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> Okay... I know I said I wasn't going to respond again, but I will, especially after reading some of your latest responses.
> 
> You've been given a lot of good information from MEM, Beowolf, Beowolf's wife Morrigan (oh, my!), and TAG on specific ways to approach your wife and change the actions you are doing.
> 
> ...


Been to the dr...on and off meds which do help....I exercise 5 times a week...watch my diet....don't have many interests which is something I am working on.....depression is not any fun....

bee


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> she is far from lazy....


Of course not. She is just not motivated to actually do anything to help you, even though she is oh so guilty and feels really, really bad about you bringing it up all the time. Like I said, your feelings just are not that important to her.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Of course not. She is just not motivated to actually do anything to help you, even though she is oh so guilty and feels really, really bad about you bringing it up all the time. Like I said, your feelings just are not that important to her.


the sarcasm is not appreciated....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> the sarcasm is not appreciated....


In all seriousness, what would be appreciated? You don't seem interested in any of the advice that has been given. You are the lead trial lawyer in defense of your wife's decision not to have sex with you. You complain about it, but shoot down every idea, suggestion or comment. You provide almost no details, instead offering one line comments that dismiss every poster. A cynic would say you are intentionally making it difficult, perhaps even trolling. I don't think so, but I would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. I am really at a loss as to why you are here. If it is just to find others to complain about your situation with, please let us know and we can stop wasting our time. Otherwise, why are you here?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> In all seriousness, what would be appreciated? You don't seem interested in any of the advice that has been given. You are the lead trial lawyer in defense of your wife's decision not to have sex with you. You complain about the it, but shoot down every idea, suggestion or comment. You provide almost no details, instead offering one line comments that dismiss every poster. A cynic would say you are intentionally making it difficult, perhaps even trolling. I don't think so, but I would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. I am really at a loss as to why you are here. If it is just to find others to complain about your situation with, please let us know and we can stop wasting our time. Otherwise, why are you here?


I have explained my situation in detail if you reread my posts. I have listened to advice and am thinking about what to do. I sure don't want to use advice that I feel is questionable and make matters worse.

And I am NOT defending what she is doing at all.....at best I am tolerating it....


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> In all seriousness, what would be appreciated? You don't seem interested in any of the advice that has been given. You are the lead trial lawyer in defense of your wife's decision not to have sex with you. You complain about the it, but shoot down every idea, suggestion or comment. You provide almost no details, instead offering one line comments that dismiss every poster. A cynic would say you are intentionally making it difficult, perhaps even trolling. I don't think so, but I would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. I am really at a loss as to why you are here. If it is just to find others to complain about your situation with, please let us know and we can stop wasting our time. Otherwise, why are you here?


I will admit that I find some comfort in knowing that I am not alone in my situation.....but I still would like to better it...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I have explained my situation in detail if you reread my posts. I have listened to advice and am thinking about what to do. I sure don't want to use advice that I feel is questionable and make matters worse.
> 
> And I am NOT defending what she is doing at all.....at best I am tolerating it....


I disagree that you have explained your situation in detail. 

Nevertheless, I wish you the best of luck in finding advice that both works and you agree with.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I disagree that you have explained your situation in detail.
> 
> Nevertheless, I wish you the best of luck in finding advice that both works and you agree with.


Reread all my posts.....


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Why would anyone want to take the time to reread all your posts? People have better things to do with their time than go through your entire post history here. 

If you want help then write more than one liners and be willing to try some new things as has been suggested to you. Otherwise keep doing whatever it is you're doing but as Dr. Phil on TV is so fond of saying "How's that working for ya?"


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> Why would anyone want to take the time to reread all your posts? People have better things to do with their time than go through your entire post history here.
> 
> If you want help then write more than one liners and be willing to try some new things as has been suggested to you. Otherwise keep doing whatever it is you're doing but as Dr. Phil on TV is so fond of saying "How's that working for ya?"


i would read someons's posts to help them...i am tired if repeating myself....and you can keep your sarcasm to your self
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> because marriage is more than frequent sex....


True, but that does not mean that you cannot divorce over sex.
I like to use a car as an analogy. The purpose of a car is to get you reliably from one place to the next. In doing so, there are a number of things a car must have in good working order.

The car must have an engine, brakes, etc. Is the car more than any one of these components? Yes. Does the car serve its purpose if any one of these are missing or damaged? No - it needs to be fix or maybe replaced if the damage is bad enough. You can limp it along for a bit, but that's about it.

Similarly, a marriage can be more than sex and AT THE SAME TIME sex can be the driver for fix or end a marriage. Of course, this conclusion comes from my rationale for marriage, which is to forge a bond out of consistent intimacy (emotional and physical), openness, and service to each other.

To me, all the other activities associated with marriage (sharing finances, raising a family, etc.) are products of that bond. But, not everyone feels that way. Some people get married mainly to have kids, meet family or societal expectations, to simply not be alone, and so on.

And disagreement over the role of the marriage in one's life seems to be at the crux of many of the issues I see on TAM. One partner wants that total closeness. The other wants something else (companionship, a family, escape, etc.)

It seems like sometimes it would be helpful to start with the basics and consider "what do I see as the purpose of marriage? What must happen for this marriage to be viable?" Only then can you figure out how to proceed.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I have explained my situation in detail if you reread my posts. I have listened to advice and am thinking about what to do. I sure don't want to use advice that I feel is questionable and make matters worse.


It might not seem like it now, but there is a high likelihood that not confronting her and (barely) tolerating it IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO. But, launching off my last post, that depends on what your purpose is (currently).

Is changing the marriage dynamic your number 1 priority? If the real question is "what can I do that has a chance of working without pissing her off" then you're just spinning your wheels and you are better off quitting TAM and doing something else with your time.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> right now my wife is so stressed with schoolwork that giving her a sexual ultimatum is prob not wise...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Calling B.S. on this. If she values you, she will squeeze in time to be with you. After all, there are 168 hours in a week. Having good sex with you 2x per week is going to take less than 1% of that.

It's just another excuse. If you and her are in the same house in the evening and overnight there is time - it's just a matter of priorities.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> apparently lots of people make my choice...look at all the people in low sex/no sex marriages....
> 
> you are suggesting I punish her to get more sex....damage what is working to get what is not working.....


You are not punishing her for anything. Punish means that you are forcing a situation on her despite her free will.

For example, you punish someone who has committed a crime by with fines, incarceration, etc. No matter what that person does or feels, he or she must endure those societal impositions.

Your wife has a choice. She can meet your needs and have you meet hers in return, or neither of you can get your needs met. The point is she has a choice. As long as you tell her honestly what you are doing, so that she knows exactly what she has to do in order to get what she wants, there is no possible way you are punishing her.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

DTO said:


> It might not seem like it now, but there is a high likelihood that not confronting her and (barely) tolerating it IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO. But, launching off my last post, that depends on what your purpose is (currently).
> 
> Is changing the marriage dynamic your number 1 priority? If the real question is "what can I do that has a chance of working without pissing her off" then you're just spinning your wheels and you are better off quitting TAM and doing something else with your time.


I have confronted her and we have had many argument over this...nothing really changes...the will retire next year the stress will be gone and hopefully things will improve...having said that i agree that i dont see why we can't have more sex currently but my continued complaining is not getting me anywhere...at least the sex we do have is still mutually satisfying...as i did in an earlier post i am tired of discussing this here...it is actually making me stress out more every day.....i appreciate all the advice but i need to focus on the rest of my life
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

let me add that if you have never taught elements school you have no idea three stress and fatigue it produces...she has done that for over 30 years
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> let me add that if you have never taught elements school you have no idea three stress and fatigue it produces...she has done that for over 30 years
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Load of crap. My wife is a teacher. She's lying to you.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> let me add that if you have never taught elements school you have no idea three stress and fatigue it produces...she has done that for over 30 years
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Has she been to a doctor recently? Has she ever had her thyroid levels checked?

My aunt has taught elementary school for 40 years and is retiring this year at age 72. In her early 60's she went through a really rough time and thought she was going to have to retire then - found out she was hypothyroid and had high blood pressure. Medication helped with both.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

reset button said:


> I would cry myself to sleep quiety after turning my husband down because I knew it hurt him but still didn't want sex..
> 
> Please if she is taking any hormones/meds.. look into it.
> We were absolutely SHOCKED at how stopping the pill changed our lives.
> ...


I wish that was the issue here. I'm now fixed and there's no medication issue, just no desire for me :-(


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Load of crap. My wife is a teacher. She's lying to you.


Mine teaches too. It was never a problem until it needed to be.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> Has she been to a doctor recently? Has she ever had her thyroid levels checked?
> 
> My aunt has taught elementary school for 40 years and is retiring this year at age 72. In her early 60's she went through a really rough time and thought she was going to have to retire then - found out she was hypothyroid and had high blood pressure. Medication helped with both.


She has been checked...no issues..thank you for your kind suggestions...they are appreciated...


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

phantomfan said:


> Mine teaches too. It was never a problem until it needed to be.


 We've all done it, used these types of excuses to avoid the real situation. It is done not so much in the spirit of lying but rather to cushion the feelings of the other person and yes, to avoid dealing with the true matter at hand. It makes it easier to kid ourselves too.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Mrs. T said:


> We've all done it, used these types of excuses to avoid the real situation. It is done not so much in the spirit of lying but rather to cushion the feelings of the other person and yes, to avoid dealing with the true matter at hand. It makes it easier to kid ourselves too.


What would you consider the real situation to be? I have been trying to figure it out.

I appreciate the soft tone of your reply


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

I just made that comment in general terms with no finite situation in mind. For you and your wife the situation is her lack of desire for sex. Women (and men) will grasp at any reason that seems plausible to escape being put in a place they don't want to be...in her case having sex. It also makes it easier for her to get over any guilt feelings she may have for witholding sex if she can make it seem like it is out of her control. Unless she is willing to discuss this with you I don't know if you'll ever figure out what is going on in her head when it comes to sex. 
I have looked at your profile and see that you have not started any threads of your own but I have read enough of your comments to know that your wife has no interest in sex but rather than beat yourself up continually you have come to terms with it and have a decent relationship with her otherwise. I also know you take a bit of a beating from some of the male posters on the site because you have accepted it and don't wish to leave her over it. I myself would find it very difficult to accept. My husband and I had a dry spell for a while (low testosterone) and for me it seemed like I thought of sex 24/7 because I wasn't satisfied with our lack of it. I started to obsess about it, wondering what I had done wrong, why he wasn't attracted to me anymore. It was making me crazy and depressed. I can't imagine years of it. You're stronger than I am.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Mrs. T said:


> I just made that comment in general terms with no finite situation in mind. For you and your wife the situation is her lack of desire for sex. Women (and men) will grasp at any reason that seems plausible to escape being put in a place they don't want to be...in her case having sex. It also makes it easier for her to get over any guilt feelings she may have for witholding sex if she can make it seem like it is out of her control. Unless she is willing to discuss this with you I don't know if you'll ever figure out what is going on in her head when it comes to sex.
> I have looked at your profile and see that you have not started any threads of your own but I have read enough of your comments to know that your wife has no interest in sex but rather than beat yourself up continually you have come to terms with it and have a decent relationship with her otherwise. I also know you take a bit of a beating from some of the male posters on the site because you have accepted it and don't wish to leave her over it. I myself would find it very difficult to accept. My husband and I had a dry spell for a while (low testosterone) and for me it seemed like I thought of sex 24/7 because I wasn't satisfied with our lack of it. I started to obsess about it, wondering what I had done wrong, why he wasn't attracted to me anymore. It was making me crazy and depressed. I can't imagine years of it. You're stronger than I am.


She is interested in sex just not too often enough for me....fortunately the sex we do have is very satisfying and orgasmic for both of us....


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

Sorry, there is another poster with a similar story, I do believe i got the two of you mixed up. That gentelman has zero sex life  Pardon me but after reading so many posts they tend to run into one another...


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

I think I just need more coffee...LOL.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Confused,
Before adding further comment on your situation I am going to give you a summary of mine. Perhaps this will help you better understand the basis for my earlier suggestions. 

My W and I have historically had very good and open communication about sex and as a result a very satisfying sex life. A few years ago my W began experiencing pain during intercourse. She hoped it would go away. It didn't. It slowly got worse. She sucked it up. But she slowly got more and more anxious about sex. Eventually she melted down on me without warning. And over a couple days the whole thing came out. And we worked together to get where we are now. Since her condition mostly eliminates the possibility of "non" painful intercourse we do other stuff. And it is also true that since the phyiscal aspect of our sex life is often so one sided, I try to manage our frequency and the overall experience to find a way for it to continue being mutually satisyfing on an emotional level. I honestly had absolutely no clue that for a couple years she was experiencing consistent and slowly increasing pain. I never would have continued having normal sex if I had known that. I felt physically sick when I realized what had been happening. And my W is normally VERY open with me. And very honest. She just felt it was her job to find a way to "make it work" pain or no pain. 

I think it is fair to ask a very simple question of me at this point so I will pre-empt that. "How do I know she is being truthful about pain, as opposed to simply saying that to avoid having sex". The thing is when she told me that it hurt and I asked what she wanted to do going forward she said we could do "other stuff" and then proceeded to demonstrate over time that she was glad to do "other stuff" at least a couple times a week. 

So my intention in suggesting that you ask your wife to commit to a "lite" version of sexual intimacy was based on the idea that it might help you identify the source of her resistance weekly sex. If she believes you will keep it "lite", and still refuses you, that means one thing. If however she agrees to try this out, that means something very different. 

I realize that part of retaining one's sanity in a bad situation is finding a way to hope things will improve. I can tell you are looking forward to her retirement. Perhaps that will improve things. I am curious though, I asked you a question a few days ago and never noticed a response. I repeat it here, and if you don't want to answer I will respect your privacy and drop it. But I do think you should consider what has historically happened in the two situations below when setting your own expectations of what will happen "post retirement". 

In between semesters teachers typically have 1-2 months off. Have you noticed a marked improvement during her breaks?

Or when you two go on vacation?

I think you can reasonably expect her post retirement behavior to be similar to what she does in those situations. 

As you know nothing about me it isn't possible for you to know that I genuinely empathize with your situation and am attempting to help you. I have not and would not propose that you approach your W in a confrontational manner. I do however get the impression that your past attempts to address this with her have been confrontational. Typically that causes a LD partner to get angry and shut down communication. 

The least aggressive approach to this is instead to find out what she IS comfortable committing to doing once a week. You seem averse to asking her that question and I am unsure why that is. I respect the fact that you know your W better than any of us do. As an objective third party I will leave you to think about this: 

Most of my suggestions have been intended to help you understand "why" your W is avoiding sex with you. Your responses to those suggestions have been almost identical in theme: 
1. You do not respond in any manner to the suggestion itself. You don't comment on why it might or might not work. Nor whether or not it is similar to anything you have tried before. You don't ask any questions about it. You basically ignore the suggestion.
2. You briefly state that your W likes having sex with you. The beginning, the middle and the end. Especially the end. 
3. Like most of the men on here (in sex starved marriages) you have heavily emphasized that your W always/almost always reaches the rapture when you have sex. The general theme among men posting about that topic is always the same: I always get my W to the finish line. This proves that sex is good/great for her. I am therefore angry and frustrated that she is starving me of sex. 

And yet in about half those cases I find that the men are absolutely unwilling to really try to find out what the "overall experience" truly is for her. Instead they have a cycle of "confrontations" with their W's about why sex is so rare. 

Since we seem to see this situation so differently I will let this be my last post on your thread. 



confusedinlife said:


> let me add that if you have never taught elements school you have no idea three stress and fatigue it produces...she has done that for over 30 years
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Confused,
> Before adding further comment on your situation I am going to give you a summary of mine. Perhaps this will help you better understand the basis for my earlier suggestions.
> 
> My W and I have historically had very good and open communication about sex and as a result a very satisfying sex life. A few years ago my W began experiencing pain during intercourse. She hoped it would go away. It didn't. It slowly got worse. She sucked it up. But she slowly got more and more anxious about sex. Eventually she melted down on me without warning. And over a couple days the whole thing came out. And we worked together to get where we are now. Since her condition mostly eliminates the possibility of "non" painful intercourse we do other stuff. And it is also true that since the phyiscal aspect of our sex life is often so one sided, I try to manage our frequency and the overall experience to find a way for it to continue being mutually satisyfing on an emotional level. I honestly had absolutely no clue that for a couple years she was experiencing consistent and slowly increasing pain. I never would have continued having normal sex if I had known that. I felt physically sick when I realized what had been happening. And my W is normally VERY open with me. And very honest. She just felt it was her job to find a way to "make it work" pain or no pain.
> ...


Hi Mem,

For now let me express my gratitude for your thoughtful post. I am short on tine, so I cannot answer it now. I do see some similarities and will get back to you soon.

Tonight seems like a lucky one....

Thanks again....


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

confusedinlife said:


> Hi Mem,
> 
> For now let me express my gratitude for your thoughtful post. I am short on tine, so I cannot answer it now. I do see some similarities and will get back to you soon.
> 
> ...


Might not be often enough but Damn it sure is good 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

stoomey74 said:


> What do you do when fighting for attention and sex reaches a point where it seems pointless to keep fighting? Is it ok to give up? Is it ok to accept the rejection from your spouse to help your children have a better future?
> 
> What do you do?


I have given up and I am now in the process of moving out and filing for D. I have to be separated for 3 months before i can file in the state i live in. 

Never stay for the children is my motto. They deserve to see both parents happy, even if it means they are together!


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