# Wife's past, her lies and my behavior...



## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I have been visiting this site for a few months now and writing my first ever post to get some relief and advice.

Dear wife (DW) and I met over 12 years ago at work. We both belong to a conservative South Asian culture where it is quite uncommon for people to have multiple relationships. Although, dating is becoming more and more common and accepted, it is still quite uncommon for girls and guys to just get in to a relationship with whomever they meet the first time over a dinner. People usually go to extra length to make sure they are getting into a relationship with an intention to get married one day. 

As I said above DW and I used to work for the same company where we had frequent work related interactions with each other. We did not even know when we started to fall in love, but it happened naturally. Once we were in a relationship, we spent our first 2 months getting to know more about each other. DW is an educated, smart, intelligent and beautiful woman. And 12 years ago when we met, she was a very jolly, energetic and fun person too. I can go as far as saying that it was her innocent cheerfulness that I fell in love with before I actually fell in love with her. During this initial phase of our relationship, we went out on every weekend, learnt about different things from each other’s company, went on movies, dinners and sometimes spent evenings having home-cook dinner and watching movies together in my wife’s apartment as she was living independently. Wife’s family left for home country and left DW here to complete her college education when she was just 19. DW was doing great in college before her family left (on DW’s choice). 

Once her family was gone, DW found herself free to make any choice and with a lot of money in hand that her parents left for her to finish her education, she started neglecting the purpose of her stay and got involve with men and in illicit fun. She told me that the first person she fell for was the first love of her life. It was mostly a long distance relationship in which the person slowly put a lot of sexual ideas in to her head. I forgot to mention that DW has some serious self-esteem and insecurity issues. She blames her parents for her issues and some of the mistakes she made in her past (DW told me that her mom beat her on a number of occasions. Sometimes, for no reason and sometimes for a reason like once she got a ‘low’ grade of 89 in math and so she got scared and forged her Mom’s signature on the report and got caught). Her father made fun of her as she used to get serious asthma attacks when she was a child and would cough the entire night like an old lady, her father used to tease her for being dull in math or being not as cute as her younger sister or not as bright as a colleague’s daughter etc). 

Anyways, the initial phase of our relationship was amazing. It was the first time for me that I was in love with a girl. It was my first (and only) love. DW too, at that point gave me an impression as I was her first and only love. Everything looked perfect; we decided that we are made for each other and what we are going to stay together forever. And so, we took our relationship a step further and became physically intimate. It was a big step for me as I had never being intimate with anybody else ever before (or after).

But, then came the biggest disappointment of my life. When I visited DW the next time, she told me while sitting on my lap that she had something to tell me. And then she told me that she has been in love with somebody else before me and the relationship was intimate. It was a shock. I was totally devastated (while it may not sound like a big deal to most of you, but remember, we come from a conservative background, virginity and good moral values are extremely important in our culture. I was raised with a certain values which I made very clear to DW before we became intimate.) 

I had no idea what to say, how to react, whether to leave, or to stay, whether to keep her, or break up as I was deeply, emotionally and physically involve with DW now. I was unusually quite that day after she made this disclosure and left her apartment soon. Her words felt like a knife being stabbed in my heart. DW later told me that when we were very new and had recently started going out, she cried a lot one night thinking what she has done in her past and how she could lose me once her truth is out. She found it necessary to hide behind a mask for the fear of losing me. When we met the next time, I naturally inquired if there is anything else that I should know. She told me no, that’s it. I was sad, but I accepted the fact that people are entitled to fall in love. We moved on. 

The next couple of months were fine. Then, one day while I was taking a train ride with a female co-worker of DW, I came to know about another relationship DW had that ended just a month before DW started going out with me. I was again in a big shock. The co-worker did not know that we were in a serious relationship. To her, it was a regular gossip. Once I got home, I called DW and asked her if what I heard is true. She cried and accepted that it was true. I was angry, I felt betrayed. Did not talk to DW for a few days, but when I met her the next time, I exploded in anger and pain. I don’t know what happened to me, but I could not stop myself from bashing her. I again asked her if there is anything else, she said no, nothing. Unfortunately, she lied this time too. I slowly started to find out that she had two more relationship and none were serious, they were not romantic or long term, they were just no string attached sexual relationships. 

It took over year and a half before most of her past came in to my knowledge. And every time I found something new, I got mad, madder and then more mad. I became crazy, could not leave her as I loved her and promised her I would marry her only or die single. I could not stay with her peacefully as I felt low and being used. I started seeing images in my head of random people being intimate with DW, spend countless sleepless nights, and felt dirty and used. Our once beautiful relationship became an abusive one. I developed a very unhealthy habit of verbally and emotionally abusing her. Sometimes, I would abuse her to find out if there was anything else, sometimes, I would do it to degrade her because that’s how I felt, sometime I would do it to make her feel horrible because that’s how I felt. I told her that if she wants a future with me, she would have to stop lying to me once and for all. No lies, not big, not white, not black. Just 100% honesty. I told DW that more than your past, it’s your habit of lying that hurts me; please stop lying as whenever you lie, you remind me of your painful past. DW made promises to be always truthful. But, whenever it was time to be honest, she always failed, and every time I found a lie, it reminded me of her past and her deceptions and made me angry. 

DW is naturally a very polite person who does not seek conflicts. So, not just about her past, she has a habit of telling white lies as well. She does not seem to understand that I do not like her telling lies. She is a bad liar. But she still lies here and there. I actually find it extremely hard to believe anything she says. I told her she has an uphill task of restoring her trust in hands. But, still her lies won’t stop and as a result, I would scream at her, would belittle her, make her feel guilty, call her names and what not. I feel like I have become a psycho. My terrible behavior continued for the next two years, and then I did get over a lot of it. 

DW was patient and understanding. We never stopped loving each other, and while I was being abusive, I was also being caring. We continued to go out, take vacations and making memories. And then, 5 years ago, we got married and had a baby boy 2 years ago. After DW and I got in to relationship, we always stayed committed and loyal. While we had a lot of fights, we had some great times too. Things were not 100% right, there were still fights and in some of those regular marital conflicts, DW’s past was also dragged. But we both learnt how to cope with the situation and were getting better. 

But, one day, after 4 years of relative calm, when I was in a lot of stress due to some issues at home, I got mad at DW after she said something very rude. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, my old behavior of verbal abuse came back. And it did not stop there, this terrible behavior continued to get worst by day. I would go back to DW’s past and ask questions that were impossible to answer. 

I became extremely revengeful and did not let any opportunity to pass without fighting with DW. I don’t know how to explain this condition; I can only say that in anger, I felt like some evil being has taken me over. I knew what I was doing was wrong but I still continued. Every time I hurt her, and later thought about it, I always felt bad. A lot of times while reflecting on my behavior, I said to myself that that’s it , I would not hurt her anymore, I would not make her cry anymore. But, I just could not stop. I still stayed blind to DW’s inner feelings. I know she loves me deeply, she always stayed patient, in fact, she is so nice that I never saw how much she is suffering inside; she would be happy and back to normal every time I would say smallest nice thing. I think there are two reasons I am mostly bitter with her -1- By putting on a mask and hiding her past before we got involve emotionally and deeply, she took my right to make an informed decision about my future. Had she told me about her past, I might have left her, or might have stayed with her. But by lying she betrayed the trust. I think it was wrong to lie to me just because she was afraid of losing me. -2- I think, I became bigheaded with her thinking that I have made better choices in the past, that I was superior to her in every way. Not realizing and appreciating how genuinely loving and caring she has been. I ruined her real self. DW stopped being herself. She would still smile, but it was not the kind of smile she used to have. She quietly let herself suffer. And I did not see the volcano ready to erupt. 

And then, one day last month, DW left my house in my absence and took our 2 years old with her. She told me that she is not leaving me for good, but just escaping an abusive marriage. She wants to live separately for a while. She is willing to bring the baby home so I can spend time with him, she has asked her mom for help and so her mom is staying with her. 

I know I verbally and emotionally abused DW. I don’t know why every time she said anything; it just brought the worst out of me. 

I am very confused. I want to forget about her past, I want to forgive her lies, I want to give her the respect I always wanted to give my wife, I want to see her happy, I want to have a normal relationship with her that we only had for the first few months of our relationship, I want to become the same easy going, funny person that I was. I need help. What should I do? Instead of criticizing me, please be understanding. I don’t want to see myself as a cruel person. I really want a peaceful future with DW. Please help. 

Thank you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

But you are a cruel person. You feel superior to her and you feel it is within your right to bring to her the pain you yourself feel. You made choices each and every time to let it go, but you didn't let it go did you! 

You excuse your behavior by saying it's your culture, by painting her as evil because she didn't tell you the truth. Because she loved someone before she loved you.

Well dude you made the exact same mistake as she did. Only instead of walking away from a relationship that wasn't good for you, you turned it into an opportunity to hurt her every chance you got.

Who owns her body? Who owns her body prior to your entering her life? Who gets to make decisions on her life?

Answer: NOT YOU!

I hope she stay away. I'm sorry you're not going to get support from me because you're still stuck in your victim hood even though you are trying to leave it behind. 

Once you can understand that SHE owns her body, not you, not your culture, not your religion, then maybe, maybe, you've got a chance to kill the abusive man inside and become the man she deserves to be married to.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think you need a lot more help than a forum can offer. I think you need to seek professional help for abusive husbands. I think she stayed with you after you beat her because of the abuse she'd suffered since childhood. If you had sought an attachment with a woman who hadn't been put through that, you would've been dumped on your arse a long time ago. You found her, you fell in love with her, because she would stay while you abused her. Everyone has their snapping point though.

If you truly love her, let her be free from your abuse. Her life has been filled with cruelty, she deserves to feel safe.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for replying.
I did not say I am not a cruel person. I said I do not want to see myself as a cruel person. I think you missed my point when I said my pain did not come from her past as much as it did from her lies. I think lies that can change a person in to what I have become are also a form of abuse. I told DW that your lies hurt me so please be truthful. I was not abusive at all until I lost trust in her. And honesty is important to me because of the way I was raised. And by the way, me and DW are not particularly religious. So that has no role in our lives other than festivals.

I agree with you about my behavior with her. She deserved/deserves better. The entire purpose of my post is not to get unfair support, but to get help and advise about what I can do to make myself better, fair and just. This is my first and only relationship with a woman. So I am obviously not an expert. The bottom line is I failed to see my wife's pain. And now that I have spent hours doing research, seeking advise about what went wrong I see nobody but myself at fault. I am trying my best to make amends. Thanks.



Anon Pink said:


> But you are a cruel person. You feel superior to her and you feel it is within your right to bring to her the pain you yourself feel. You made choices each and every time to let it go, but you didn't let it go did you!
> 
> You excuse your behavior by saying it's your culture, by painting her as evil because she didn't tell you the truth. Because she loved someone before she loved you.
> 
> ...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I am looking for professional marriage and anger management counseling as well. My wife is also seeking marriage counseling (she has a habit of lying that is unacceptable to me, so she realizes that a change is needed in her behavior too). I have also opened up to my other family members about my behavior and abuse. I am a very private person, but about this issue, I am not hiding anything. Whatever I did, I did because I did not realize I was abusing somebody. It is not in my nature. I just became resentful and developed a very unhealthy habit. It is my top priority right now to change myself into a kinder and just person. And I want to do it not only for my wife, but for myself too. I want a happy, quarrel free life and a peaceful future with my wife and son. Thanks.



breeze said:


> I think you need a lot more help than a forum can offer. I think you need to seek professional help for abusive husbands. I think she stayed with you after you beat her because of the abuse she'd suffered since childhood. If you had sought an attachment with a woman who hadn't been put through that, you would've been dumped on your arse a long time ago. You found her, you fell in love with her, because she would stay while you abused her. Everyone has their snapping point though.
> 
> If you truly love her, let her be free from your abuse. Her life has been filled with cruelty, she deserves to feel safe.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I was a cruel husband.
What I found is giving my old lady some love she will return it ten fold...

We did some bad crap to each other....back in the day it was phucked up...can't believe we made it.

My point is with respect and the absents of resentment the both of you will enjoy giving your self to each other.

Own your own sh1t and take responsablity by correcting a wrong. That is one thing you can control.It will be up to the both of you to keep up with each other as you both look at the future and doing the heavy lifting to fix your crap...and ya ...your old lady has her share of checking her sh1t and doing what she needs to do.

You phuckers need to start meeting each others needs and reap the rewards....educate your self and each other.

I can bearly spell much less read but there are some great books out there, along with some help from a pro that might fix this crap.

Hell it worked for me and my chick...you just gotta be smarter then all the bull sh1t and get educated.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

52 weeks of AM was the best money I ever spent...and it wasn't court ordered....I just hated the POS I was becoming!


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

I totally understand your conundrum. Her purity was important to you and she lied about it. 

As I see it, you have two real options. 

1) Accept her past and forgive her lying and deceitfulness

2) Seek a divorce because of the above conditions

I'm just not sure there's any middle ground. I get the whole falling in love thing and that may have made it hard to see this becoming a problem but you did seemingly accept it and continue to date her. She did lie to you and put you in a bad situation but you did know about it prior to marrying her so I think you have to just accept it now.

Your mistake may have been not walking away before you were married if this was a deal breaker for you. 

Anyway, I wish you well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

good104 said:


> I am looking for professional marriage and anger management counseling as well. My wife is also seeking marriage counseling (she has a habit of lying that is unacceptable to me, so she realizes that a change is needed in her behavior too). I have also opened up to my other family members about my behavior and abuse. I am a very private person, but about this issue, I am not hiding anything. Whatever I did, I did because I did not realize I was abusing somebody. *It is not in my nature. *I just became resentful and developed a very unhealthy habit. It is my top priority right now to change myself into a kinder and just person. And I want to do it not only for my wife, but for myself too. I want a happy, quarrel free life and a peaceful future with my wife and son. Thanks.


You will not learn to turn off the anger and the abuse until you accept that what you have done is a large part of your nature. That's why you treated her like you did. 

You could have just left her, instead you used the knowledge of her past to abuse, humiliate and otherwise mistreat her.

while her not telling you the truth is wrong, there is a reason that she has been reluctant to tell you the truth. She told you one thing early on and you blew up on her. You did not leave her, instead you became angry and abusive. So she does not trust you. Why would she? In order for her to be truthful she needs to know that telling the truth is not going to end badly for her. So far that's one thing she knows for sure.. you will punish her for the truth.. always.

She should have dumped you when you became so angry and abusive the first time she opened up to you because you. She is not safe with you.


You should have left her the first time you found out that she had a relationship before you. You cannot handle it. So in response you have tried to destroy her.. and it seems you have come closes to meeting this goal.

Your marriage cannot be fixed until you have done at least a year of anger management and other counseling. She will need a year or more of counseling as well.

IT will be months before MC will do any good at all, if ever.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for replying.
I got over her past slowly but surely. What I could not forgive was her constant lies and ways to deceive me. I know there is nothing I could do to change her past. But, I asked her to promise me that she would never lie to me about anything no matter how bitter, harsh or embarrassing the truth is ever. She promised. I believed. I married. But, even after our marriage, she just could not stop lying. My love for her is pure and unconditional. But, my marriage to her is conditional. And the only condition was radical honesty. I have no idea how to even begin explaining why its bad to be with liars especially when in a relationship. I don't know how people can't see that a relationship always has a potential to develop in to a life long commitment and partnership. I think lying is always a bad idea in general, but it is an absolute no no when used in a relationship. DW just doesn't get it. 




Mostlycontent said:


> I totally understand your conundrum. Her purity was important to you and she lied about it.
> 
> As I see it, you have two real options.
> 
> ...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for replying.

But, I am sorry your analysis that it is in my nature to be angry is incorrect. I am usually quite composed and clam. It is not easy for anybody but my wife to make me angry. I accept that I have issues with my wife. I am a totally different person when I am with her. I am angry with her because I've been seriously manipulated into a relationship that was based upon a pack of lies. I wonder what else I don’t know and how else I've been manipulated. 

I have never punished her for telling me the truth even if it hurts me. Because this is my promise to her.




EleGirl said:


> You will not learn to turn off the anger and the abuse until you accept that what you have done is a large part of your nature. That's why you treated her like you did.
> 
> You could have just left her, instead you used the knowledge of her past to abuse, humiliate and otherwise mistreat her.
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

good104 said:


> But, I am sorry your analysis that it is in my nature to be angry is incorrect. I am usually quite composed and clam. It is not easy for anybody but my wife to make me angry. I accept that I have issues with my wife. I am a totally different person when I am with her. I am angry with her because I've been seriously manipulated into a relationship that was based upon a pack of lies. I wonder what else I don’t know and how else I've been manipulated.
> 
> I have never punished her for telling me the truth even if it hurts me. Because this is my promise to her.


Yes you have punished her for telling the truth. The very first time she opened up to you what happened?



> I had no idea what to say, how to react, whether to leave, or to stay, whether to keep her, or break up as I *was deeply, emotionally and physically involve with DW now*. I was unusually quite that day after she made this disclosure and left her apartment soon. Her words felt like a knife being stabbed in my heart.


You didn't take it very well did you? Your actions clearly told her that you could not tolerate the thought that someone else had touched her. You make it sound as if you think she manipulated you to fall in love with her. As if she played you for a fool.

You say her words stabbed you in your heart, how do you think your reaction to her words made HER feel? Is this man she is falling in love with going to ditch her because she knew other men before she knew him! Yes! Yes he was so she better keep her mouth shut if she wants him.

Your wife tried to straddle the line between tradition and modernity and in the end she made a huge mistake by not embracing her real self and insisting her future husband do the same. Sounds as if she has come to terms with embracing her real self and will no longer allow a falsehood serve as her identity.

In the end, although you say you learned to accept her past, you never did and each time her past hurt you, you hurt her.

So once again, who owns her body? Who owns her heart? 

Now tell me why it is NOT you who owns her body and then you can start to understand.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

good104 said:


> Thanks for replying.
> 
> But, I am sorry your analysis that it is in my nature to be angry is incorrect. I am usually quite composed and clam. It is not easy for anybody but my wife to make me angry. I accept that I have issues with my wife. I am a totally different person when I am with her.


People behave differently in an intimate relationship than they do with other people. The way you are when you are with your wife is your nature for an intimate relationship. You don't want to admit it because it's hard to face. Your behavior defines what your real nature is. Counseling will not work for you until you realize this.


good104 said:


> I am angry with her because I've been seriously manipulated into a relationship that was based upon a pack of lies. I wonder what else I don’t know and how else I've been manipulated.


You want to put the blame on her. Sure she is responsible for not telling the truth right away and using trickle truth in revealing her past to you. But you are responsible for your choice to stay in the relationship, use your anger to control/hurt her and abuse her. You stayed with her even after you found out about her past. You stayed even after you were well aware that she uses “little lies” as a coping mechanism. You could have left her at any point. You chose not to. Even now, you know what she is like, and you want to continue the relationship. What this means is that the anger and abuse you throw at her serve a purpose for you. IN most relationships where there is abuse, the abuser is using it to control the other person.



good104 said:


> I have never punished her for telling me the truth even if it hurts me. Because this is my promise to her.


It’s a two sided coin. On one side of the coin is your reaction to her telling the truth. On the other side is your reaction to her not telling the truth (or lying). It’s one coin. You can claim that you punished her only for lying. I can assure you that she feels that you also punished her for the truth she told. When we hand a person a coin, they get the entire coin, not just one side.

Like I said earlier, she was wrong for not just being honest with you to start with. And you have been wrong in your anger and abuse.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I appreciate your candor. It took guts to admit all of your shortcomings out for the world to see. That's quite a story you've laid out for us, filled with raw emotion. 

You say you don't want to see yourself as a cruel person. Sorry, the damage is done and you can't go back and rewind the past. What you can do though is move forward. And you are.

I don't think this marriage can be saved.

You didn't know the extent of your dysfunction any more than knowing hers. You admitted you verbally attacked her just because you could. To hurt, humiliate and shame her. You admit your abusive tendencies.

If she didn't have a problem in the past about telling the truth, she certainly does now. I think she'll probably will always hide her true thoughts and feelings. It's too painful for her to let someone in. That's been ingrained in her since she was a child. She's a strong woman to walk away, to realize there's more to Life than that.

And that's where you stand today. I think the best thing to do is to give it Time. Work on getting your emotions under control. She'll do the same. The Trust issue is damaged on both sides. Give it Time.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

No, I am not angry that I did not have as many sexual partners as DW. I am happy that I chose to keep myself away from girls. When I was in college, I had quite a few girls who were interested in me. I was not. I was there to get an education. And that was it. In fact, at work place, there were girls who offered their friendship to me, DW knows this as we used to work for the same company. I really was a cheerful and easy going person back then. Again, more than my wife's past, her lies hurt me. I think that's the point nobody seems to understand. 



intheory said:


> good104
> Could it be that you are angry that *you* didn't get to have more sexual partners before you married your wife?
> 
> Are you worried that one of her other boyfriends made her happier in bed that you do?
> ...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I think it would be fair that I let you see how my wife sees my behavior and our issues. She has posted a thread few months back that sums up her side of the story.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...41-please-help-past-shadows-our-marriage.html

I hope it would give you a better understanding of our situation.

Thanks.



EleGirl said:


> People behave differently in an intimate relationship than they do with other people. The way you are when you are with your wife is your nature for an intimate relationship. You don't want to admit it because it's hard to face. Your behavior defines what your real nature is. Counseling will not work for you until you realize this.
> 
> You want to put the blame on her. Sure she is responsible for not telling the truth right away and using trickle truth in revealing her past to you. But you are responsible for your choice to stay in the relationship, use your anger to control/hurt her and abuse her. You stayed with her even after you found out about her past. You stayed even after you were well aware that she uses “little lies” as a coping mechanism. You could have left her at any point. You chose not to. Even now, you know what she is like, and you want to continue the relationship. What this means is that the anger and abuse you throw at her serve a purpose for you. IN most relationships where there is abuse, the abuser is using it to control the other person.
> 
> ...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I know my behavior caused a lot of damage. And my wife knows her behavior caused a lot of damage. We are using the time and space this separation has offered to reflect and to make amends. I think, even after all this our marriage still has a chance to succeed. We both are doing all in our power to lessen the hurt and continue the healing. Thanks.



Revamped said:


> I appreciate your candor. It took guts to admit all of your shortcomings out for the world to see. That's quite a story you've laid out for us, filled with raw emotion.
> 
> You say you don't want to see yourself as a cruel person. Sorry, the damage is done and you can't go back and rewind the past. What you can do though is move forward. And you are.
> 
> ...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Yes you have punished her for telling the truth. The very first time she opened up to you what happened?
> 
> 
> No, I did not punish her for opening up the first time she did. I was hurt and shocked. But, I did not punish her for her past. Only her lies brought the worst out of me.
> ...


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon Good104
I am sorry, but some mistakes cannot be undone. You allowed your irrational anger to control you and cause you to hurt the woman you had sworn an oath to cherish and protect. Had you done it once, asking forgiveness might work but you did it over and over again. Until you find a way to control yourself I do not think you should be in any relationship. 

If a husband or wife deceives you, I think you have a right to leave, but I do not think there is ever an excuse to attack your spouse verbally or physically.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

good104 said:


> No, I am not angry that I did not have as many sexual partners as DW. I am happy that I chose to keep myself away from girls. When I was in college, I had quite a few girls who were interested in me. I was not. I was there to get an education. And that was it. In fact, at work place, there were girls who offered their friendship to me, DW knows this as we used to work for the same company. I really was a cheerful and easy going person back then. Again, more than my wives past, her lies hurt me. I think that's the point nobody seems to understand.


Above sounds like you are a smart guy.

As for your wive's past. Honestly , it probably hurts you as much as you let it.

Let's think about this for a second. You guys were not together at the time, so what she did with her time is ON HER. NOTHING to do with you. The only misake you and her made is > you asking about that time/past and her actually sharing that info.

This is something that shouldn't have been discussed IMO.

Also I'm not sure why you say she is lying. She is being honest and told you what happened (even though she really shouldn't have as clearly it would ONLY do damage/hurt you).

Lesson learned - DO NOT ask about woman's history/past that's completely outside of your relationship. NOTHING GOOD can EVER come from it. 

Trust me, I used to dwell on this crap myself too and it KILLED me inside. Until I realized I was simply being stupid and anything outside of our relationship is completely irrelevant and worthless.



Let it go

And to be honest with you, you already let it go THE DAY you decided to get back with her. You just didn't know that. And made the mistake of asking what happened during the time off. 

It's down to mental "let go" now. Just don't think about it when the thoughts come up.

Focus on your relationship issues (intimacy and affection).


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

I offer the following perspective.

You were in love with your wife when you first met. After being intimate, she started telling you a little about her past. You were in love so you rug-swept it. You continued the relationship. You found out more. You rug-swept and swept. 

You got married. You had a child with her. You now think you have a stronger relationship with her. Then something triggered you. The things you rug-swept came back and surfaced.

You have this anger now. How do you pacify/control it? 

Can you walk away from this marriage?


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for replying.
I can not even imagine to live without my wife. This is how nice she is!



aug said:


> I offer the following perspective.
> 
> You were in love with your wife when you first met. After being intimate, she started telling you a little about her past. You were in love so you rug-swept it. You continued the relationship. You found out more. You rug-swept and swept.
> 
> ...


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

good104 said:


> Thanks for replying.
> I can not even imagine to live without my wife. This is how nice she is!


You have to start imaging it.

Unless, she is willing to work on the issues within your relationship.

Communicate to her how you feel and your needs as a man. If she loves you, she will listen and go up and beyond to meet those needs.

Every woman SHOULD know that men require intimacy, they should also know what's at risk if your significant others needs are not met......some will leave and others will get it elsewhere.

Intimacy is they ultimate way to show love for men, every woman should know this by now.

If she loves you, not only will she listen but she WILL deliver.

We call this compromise. EVERY marriage needs it. Without it, it's over.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Perhaps you should read your wife's thread.

Paying particular attention to Mavash who sadly has left TAM because she was AWESOME!



Mavash. said:


> Even most prisoners eventually get set free.
> 
> Does he have a timeline for how long you should pay for your actions?
> 
> And I disagree it DOES matter that you were young and immature at the time. It's a pity your husband can't see that.


So...why can't you see that?

Because you feel you have ownership over your wife, past present and future. You can't let this go because you own her.

You think I should understand your culture. I'm saying that I do understand, and it's still wrong. You don't own her. You don't own her past, nor do you own her future. You only own yourself, your actions, your words, your expectations, your behavior.

When you fully understand that, maybe you can heal from this. Until then, you're doomed to repeat these mistakes over and over again.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Perhaps you should read your wife's thread.
> 
> Paying particular attention to Mavash who sadly has left TAM because she was AWESOME!
> 
> ...


:smthumbup:


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

You had a choice when you found out about her past and at any time left but you stayed and continued the relationship with her. Look in the mirror and when you see that guy looking back at you, you'll see whose fault it is.

Maybe she doesn't walk on water but when she told you about her past and saw how you reacted, it's obvious that she wasn't going to divulge any more. 

It seems to me that if you think a woman isn't as pure as a fresh driven snow, she's no good. 

My advice to you friend is grow the hell up and act like a man for a change. 

Are you going to say that you never did anything wrong in your life or are you one of the chosen perfect people?

You made the choice and if she wasn't up to your high standards the you should have moved on but now it seems that the only way you feel better is by hurling verbal insults at her. 

Your choice so you bought it, now own it.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for taking the time to read both posts.

I am sorry, but I would disagree that a person's historical past doesn't matter. I think it does. So, I believe in the policy of radical honesty. I think it is important to reveal as much about your past, present and future and as honestly as possible. 

And to support what I wrote, here is a link.

The Policy of Radical Honesty

To me honesty shows a person's desire to accept and change. It also gives the one you love an opportunity to have complete trust in you. So, I guess it is important.



DoF said:


> Above sounds like you are a smart guy.
> 
> As for your wive's past. Honestly , it probably hurts you as much as you let it.
> 
> ...


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

good104 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to read both posts.
> 
> I am sorry, but I would disagree that a person's historical past doesn't matter. I think it does. So, I believe in the policy of radical honesty. I think it is important to reveal as much about your past, present and future and as honestly as possible.
> 
> ...


Oo, buddy, you're in for a world of hurt on that one. She cannot change her past and YOU cannot accept it.

I don't think she'll ever give you any more ammunition to use against her ever again. The days of her opening up to you is far gone.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Oo, buddy, you're in for a world of hurt on that one. She cannot change her past and YOU cannot accept it.
> 
> *I don't think she'll ever give you any more ammunition to use against her ever again. The days of her opening up to you is far gone*.


OMG this is soooooo true!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Because you feel you have ownership over your wife, past present and future. You can't let this go because you own her.
> 
> You think I should understand your culture. I'm saying that I do understand, and it's still wrong. You don't own her. You don't own her past, nor do you own her future. You only own yourself, your actions, your words, your expectations, your behavior.
> 
> When you fully understand that, maybe you can heal from this. Until then, you're doomed to repeat these mistakes over and over again.



I dont think it's about ownership as much as it is about integrating the other person into your soul. What I would want integrated is something of value, something that is better than what I am. 

What, I assume, OP is feeling now (because he rug-swept) is that his wife is of less value than the rose-colored he had once viewed her in. Perhaps buyer's remorse?

If OP really thinks his wife is worth it now, then he would not be screaming and fighting with her.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

The policy of radical honesty is used in context of the marriage, the relationship and how to relate to one another. Within the context of a marriage, everything is offered up to gain understanding.

This is not intended for what a spouse has done with previous lovers. What happened before she met you has no bearing on what is going on between you now.

But you will not see it that way because you think she should not have ever had a relationship prior to meeting you. Because you refused relationships you think she should have done the same.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Nothing is hidden about her past from me anymore. And I have not talked to her about her past in the last 4 months. What bothers me is her habit of lying even now about everyday things. She has a habit of lying. That's what keeps me on my toes. I find it hard to trust anything she says. And I do not like it when I can't trust my wife. The other issue that bothers me is my own behavior arising from the trust issue. I do not want to abuse her in anyway. So, the advise I am seeking here is about how to move forward and stop doing what I find repulsive but can't seem to control myself doing. A lot of people are trying to tell me that I am wrong. I know I am wrong. And I have wronged my wife. And I have violated her. I am looking to make amends. I am looking to change myself. This forum is just one of the places where I am seeking help at. So, I urge all you smart folks here to understand what help and advise I need. Just telling me that I am wrong over and over is inadequate because I know that now and I realize that now.

Thanks.



Revamped said:


> Oo, buddy, you're in for a world of hurt on that one. She cannot change her past and YOU cannot accept it.
> 
> I don't think she'll ever give you any more ammunition to use against her ever again. The days of her opening up to you is far gone.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I used to think like that. Don't anymore. It was a slow and painful process for me to get over her past. But I did. Now, I am just looking to change myself and my horrible ways of dealing with my wife. I hate to see that I have developed two opposite personalities. I am known for my calmness outside the house, but I am an angry and crazy person inside our house. I am seeking help in regards to how to move forward and bring a closure to hurt that my irrational behavior causes. 

Thank you.



Anon Pink said:


> The policy of radical honesty is used in context of the marriage, the relationship and how to relate to one another. Within the context of a marriage, everything is offered up to gain understanding.
> 
> This is not intended for what a spouse has done with previous lovers. What happened before she met you has no bearing on what is going on between you now.
> 
> But you will not see it that way because you think she should not have ever had a relationship prior to meeting you. Because you refused relationships you think she should have done the same.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

good104 said:


> I used to think like that. Don't anymore. It was a slow and painful process for me to get over her past. But I did. Now, I am just looking to change myself and my horrible ways of dealing with my wife. I hate to see that I have developed two opposite personalities. I am known for my calmness outside the house, but I am an angry and crazy person inside our house. I am seeking help in regards to how to move forward and bring a closure to hurt that my irrational behavior causes.
> 
> Thank you.


Identifying the problem is the FIRST step of resolving it.

First, I would tell you to focus and work on YOURSELF. Make a list of issues on your end and prioritize them with importance levels.

Ask your wife which ones SHE thinks are important, her importance levels are WAY more important than yours.

Just showing her the list will probably do wonders for her as it will tell her you are taking relationship seriously and are working on improving.

Meanwhile, be honest and up front to your wife about the issues WITH her as well. She should be working on her issues as much as you are working on yourself.

If you want to make a list of issues here on the thread, we can help you out as well. But right now, thread was about your wife's activities when you too weren't together.

READ: you are overwhelming us a bit/organize it a bit better> we will help


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

"What happened before she met you has no bearing on what is going on between you now."

I understand the thinking behind this statement. However it is not entirely true. My wife's past brought all kinds of crap into our marriage. I knew there were issues but had no clue what they were. Why couldn't she be intimate with me? Why wouldn't she open up? Why? Why?

So after 20 years she finally reveals what is back there. And now I know what I struggled to understand for so long. (It was abortion related).

So, I am just saying that we want to use caution on the statement that what happened before you has no bearing on your relationship now. It is NOT always the truth.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

You're still bugging out on her after TWELVE YEARS? Jeez, you sound like my control freak ex.

Just let her go. If you love someone, you let them go. If you want to control someone, you hang on. 

You need to work on you. And you obviously can't do it with her around. Counseling. LOTS of it. And I hope she does the same.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Oh, and one more thing.....she absolutely sugar coats stuff (seen as lying by you) because you wig out on her. I did the EXACT same thing. She doesn't have very good boundaries, as I didn't. She isn't very assertive, as I wasn't. Still, NO EXCUSE for abuse. That's all on you, as you have admitted. 

My ex and I split. I worked on me and am happier than I've ever been. He is remarried too (although according to the kids he hasn't changed a bit.) Work on you. Life moves on.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

youkiddingme said:


> "What happened before she met you has no bearing on what is going on between you now."
> 
> I understand the thinking behind this statement. However it is not entirely true. My wife's past brought all kinds of crap into our marriage. I knew there were issues but had no clue what they were. Why couldn't she be intimate with me? Why wouldn't she open up? Why? Why?
> 
> ...


My statement ONLY applies to DETAILS of past relationships, not life in general. No talking about anything sexual/details from other relationships.

Objective discussion is fine (how long were you with A for example).


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

good104 said:


> I used to think like that. Don't anymore. It was a slow and painful process for me to get over her past. But I did. Now, I am just looking to change myself and my horrible ways of dealing with my wife. I hate to see that I have developed two opposite personalities. I am known for my calmness outside the house, but I am an angry and crazy person inside our house. I am seeking help in regards to how to move forward and bring a closure to hurt that my irrational behavior causes.
> 
> Thank you.



Okay so you want concrete instruction on ridding yourself of the abusive man who came along with learning your wife was not the woman you wanted her to be. You want to know how to not only cope with the past while not repeating it, but also to alter the way you interact with her so it is more in keeping with the deep and loving feelings you have for her, correct?

Have you ever heard the term approachable? It means that when the going gets tense and tough you keep your wits about you and not react but instead you contemplate and decide the best way to respond.

This hasn't worked for you in dealing with your wife thus far. You say it is because you don't trust her. She lied to you in the past about some big things and she now lies to you about inconsequential things.

The reason why she hides the truth from you is because she doesn't want to feel your negative reaction.

What visceral reaction do you have when I write, "your wife had sex many times prior to meeting you." Is you but clenching? Have you balled your fists? Has your heart rate increased? Are your eyes zeroed in on that image with a laser focus?

This is why therapy is so important for you. To unlearn this visceral response takes a lot of one on one work as well as group work. While you cling to the rightness of your culture, you also cling to the visceral and abusive reaction when your expectations aren't being met.

How can your wife feel safe enough to be honest with you when honesty produces abusive reaction?

Until you learn to control your beast and give her the emotional safety to be honest, she will not be able to be honest.

Best of luck to you. I truly hope you and your wife can work this out, and I think it is possible. It will take a lot of work.


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

Communication and conflict resolution is the process by which intimacy is gained in any relationship. The options are: put in the work to make this marriage work, or quit on it. I do not believe marriages should be walked out on unless there is absolutely no choice. Every relationship will have some kind of issue that needs to be figured out at some point or another. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Okay so you want concrete instruction on ridding yourself of the abusive man who came along with learning your wife was not the woman you wanted her to be. You want to know how to not only cope with the past while not repeating it, but also to alter the way you interact with her so it is more in keeping with the deep and loving feelings you have for her, correct?
> 
> Have you ever heard the term approachable? It means that when the going gets tense and tough you keep your wits about you and not react but instead you contemplate and decide the best way to respond.
> 
> ...


While I understand what you are saying, I fundamentally disagree with the justification of her deceitfulness. It's like trying to justify and rationalize "trickle truthing" that we all read about on CWI. If you took this same stance over there, you'd be raked over the coals.

Somebody else's poor reaction to a situation does not justify lying or deceitfulness by you. He should work on his reactions for sure but that doesn't justify her part either. Just my 2 cents.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Mostlycontent said:


> While I understand what you are saying, I fundamentally disagree with the justification of her deceitfulness. It's like trying to justify and rationalize "trickle truthing" that we all read about on CWI. If you took this same stance over there, you'd be raked over the coals.
> 
> Somebody else's poor reaction to a situation does not justify lying or deceitfulness by you. He should work on his reactions for sure but that doesn't justify her part either. Just my 2 cents.


But there is a HUGE difference here.

What she did or didn't do prior to meeting him has NO BEARING on their marriage. None!

What he is doing is called slvt shaming. He had a certain expectation of behavior that she didn't live up to. The modern woman can and does enjoy her body, can and does make decision on sharing her body. Because there is no male equivalent to slvt shaming women will continue to hide their past sexual encounters.

Get rid of slvt shaming and teach young women to always be "A-okay" with who they are and who they've loved. Get rid of moralistic attitudes that look the other way when men enjoy their body to jump to judge when women enjoy their bodies. Once you do that, things will improve.

Trickle truth as found over in CWI is not at all what is happening with this guy. His wife tested the waters with the truth and he slvt shamed. So the truth became a hidden part of her.

What she should have done was told him that her past was none of his damn business! What she should have done was frankly lay it all out then hold the door open as he left! But...slvt shaming took place instead and she bought into it!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Mostlycontent said:


> While I understand what you are saying, I fundamentally disagree with the justification of her deceitfulness. It's like trying to justify and rationalize "trickle truthing" that we all read about on CWI. If you took this same stance over there, you'd be raked over the coals.
> 
> Somebody else's poor reaction to a situation does not justify lying or deceitfulness by you. He should work on his reactions for sure but that doesn't justify her part either. Just my 2 cents.


I'm with AP on this one. First of all, she's not a cheating spouse so to compare her to one is ridiculous. Second, OP hasn't been straight about what's really bothering him; he claims it's the lies but if you read carefully it's not, it's the fact that she had past relationships. He's been quick to invoke culture to defend himself, so let's invoke it for her and say that her initial lies were from shame thanks to said culture.

The thing is, she came clean before they married. And he punished her for it and then married her anyway, and continued to punish her. That's the mentality of a spoiled brat. So there's never been a safe environment for her to be open with him, because it's really her past that bothers him and he feels entitled to keep punishing her. He's only even pondering this because she left; if she was still there he'd still be doing it because he's entitled to make her suffer.

He could have ended things or moved past them; instead he took the cowards path. He married her and abused her over a past that had nothing to do with him.

Even if he magically stops the abuse he's still left with the toxic environment where she's going to be punished for being straight with him. And I can't imagine how she even still loves him after how he's spoken to her. She probably revolves between thinking he's a pos and feeling shame; not very healthy for a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

You are making a lot of assumptions here. My hurt is all related to her lies. I have gotten over her past. You should read my wife's post again if you are still unable to grasp the importance of values, moral and culture. 

Thank you. 



Anon Pink said:


> But there is a HUGE difference here.
> 
> What she did or didn't do prior to meeting him has NO BEARING on their marriage. None!
> 
> ...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Again, my issue is her lies. Also, if I did not try and talk to DW, her truth would not have been revealed before our marriage. So, yes, historical truth is important. Anyways, I have moved on about her past because DW is indeed a loyal wife. We are working to resolve our issues so that we both can stop hurting each other. 

Thank you



lifeistooshort said:


> I'm with AP on this one. First of all, she's not a cheating spouse so to compare her to one is ridiculous. Second, OP hasn't been straight about what's really bothering him; he claims it's the lies but if you read carefully it's not, it's the fact that she had past relationships. He's been quick to invoke culture to defend himself, so let's invoke it for her and say that her initial lies were from shame thanks to said culture.
> 
> The thing is, she came clean before they married. And he punished her for it and then married her anyway, and continued to punish her. That's the mentality of a spoiled brat. So there's never been a safe environment for her to be open with him, because it's really her past that bothers him and he feels entitled to keep punishing her. He's only even pondering this because she left; if she was still there he'd still be doing it because he's entitled to make her suffer.
> 
> ...


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Your Issue with HER is her lies, your issue is that you you've been by verbally and emotionally abusive.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

good104 said:


> You are making a lot of assumptions here. My hurt is all related to her lies. I have gotten over her past. You should read my wife's post again if you are still unable to grasp the *importance of values, moral and culture. *
> 
> Thank you.


Now you see what I bolded? Perhaps you didn't mean it to sound the way it did, maybe you're not even aware of it.

Your bolded statement essentially means that the only morals, values and culture that are important are the ones you subscribe to, come from, and believe in.

You see my moral code tells me that sex with someone you care about, prior to marriage is actually a very good thing. My values are that sex is too important a component to leave it up to chance. That marrying someone who is sexually no compatible is as much a disaster as marrying someone you don't particularly like.

You may not agree with my morals and values, and that's okay, but they are indeed very important to me.

Now who is misunderstanding the importance or morals and values now?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
For what its worth, I know almost nothing about my partner's sexual history before we were together. It is none of my business, unless I was particularly concerned about disease issues.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening good104
I am sorry,but I must strongly disagree with you. You talk about culture - I do not know what specific culture you are (and you don't need to say). Many cultures value self control and honor, and losing control of your anger and hurting the woman you love, and were sworn to protect does not meet those values. 

People make mistakes and can be forgiven, but your posts suggest that you do not really understand just how serious are the mistakes you made. I am not trying to attack you, but I think you need to think very hard about your own actions if you want the situation to improve. 



good104 said:


> You are making a lot of assumptions here. My hurt is all related to her lies. I have gotten over her past. You should read my wife's post again if you are still unable to grasp the importance of values, moral and culture.
> 
> Thank you.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

AP my friend, DW and I come from a similar culture. You can read her thread and see that she also believed in same values as I. She accepts that due to her sudden freedom and perhaps peer pressure, she forgot who she was and where she belonged. She stayed wayward for a period of three years and was glad when I walked in to her life. The reason she lied to me initially was not really to deceive me, but to keep me as she knew upon finding out her truth I won't stay (I think I would have stayed, but she thought I won't). I became an angry and abusive person not just because my wife lied to me and sort of deceived me, but also because of my own shortcomings, arrogance and misunderstandings. My relationship with DW is my first and only relationship with a woman. I know I messed up. I am not claiming to be an expert. I am actually a very private person. And so that's why I am trying all that is in my power to change myself. My mission is to become the same kind of person that DW fell in love with. And then stay that way for the rest of my life. I am working on it. That's why I opened this thread so if I ever even think about straying, I can refer back to it, see what I did, see what people thought of my behavior and to see how my behavior almost took my beautiful wife away from me.
Thank you.



Anon Pink said:


> Now you see what I bolded? Perhaps you didn't mean it to sound the way it did, maybe you're not even aware of it.
> 
> Your bolded statement essentially means that the only morals, values and culture that are important are the ones you subscribe to, come from, and believe in.
> 
> ...


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Are you alluding to an affair?

Straying in marriage is MUCH different than exploring a sexual freedom in youth as an unattached person.

Do NOT confuse the two.

What you're essentially saying is, if you choose the need to cheat on your wife, it will be justified because her morals were lacking prior to marriage to you.

You are one messed up dude.

If you are talking about becoming verbally abusive to her again, then the justification becomes apparent because she earned your disapproval somehow.

In either case, it's a lose/lose proposition for your wife.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

good104 said:


> I think it would be fair that I let you see how my wife sees my behavior and our issues. She has posted a thread few months back that sums up her side of the story.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...41-please-help-past-shadows-our-marriage.html
> 
> ...


Yes your wife's thread gave me a much better understanding of your situation. You have been very cruel to your wife. You married her AFTER you knew about her past. So that means that you accepted her as she was. She's a good, moral woman. 

I stand by what I've posted to you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You can start by stop calling your wife a liar. She is not a liar. For years she's been doing what is called 'walking on egg shells'. That means that tries to figure out what she can do to get you to not attack, belittle, humiliate and otherwise terrorize her.

She explains in her post what went on...

Why did you make her call the first guy she had sex with? Why did you force her to humiliate herself and ask him why he did not marry her?

Can you explain what was going through your head?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

good104 said:


> AP my friend, DW and I come from a similar culture. You can read her thread and see that she also believed in same values as I. She accepts that due to her sudden freedom and perhaps peer pressure, she forgot who she was and where she belonged. She stayed wayward for a period of three years and was glad when I walked in to her life. The reason she lied to me initially was not really to deceive me, but to keep me as she knew upon finding out her truth I won't stay (I think I would have stayed, but she thought I won't). I became an angry and abusive person not just because my wife lied to me and sort of deceived me, but also because of my own shortcomings, arrogance and misunderstandings. My relationship with DW is my first and only relationship with a woman. I know I messed up. I am not claiming to be an expert. I am actually a very private person. And so that's why I am trying all that is in my power to change myself. My mission is to become the same kind of person that DW fell in love with. And then stay that way for the rest of my life. I am working on it. That's why I opened this thread so if I ever even think about straying, I can refer back to it, see what I did, see what people thought of my behavior and to see how my behavior almost took my beautiful wife away from me.
> Thank you.


I hear that you're trying to find a magic bullet to help you never be abusive again. I get that you want to be the kind of man she fell in love with. You want to save your marriage and your sense of who you are, who you thought you were, who you want to be.

But in each reply you keep going back to what your wife did that caused you to act the way you did. Then you mention he lies, and you also talk about your shared cultural values with your wife.

Stop here and read that again. You must separate your actions from your wife's actions.

What does you culture suggest in terms of forgiveness? How does one seek and receive forgiveness in your culture?


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

First you have to decide whether you truly love her and can get behind the issues of her past. If the answer is no, and you will always be angry and look to bring this up whenever there is a problem, (and periodic disagreements are a part of marriage), then perhaps there can't be a happy marriage. If on the other hand, you love her and can eliminate her past, then undergo counseling, tell her that you are working towards resolution, ask for her forgiveness. 

Explain that so long as she is faithful now, what is in the past is irrelevant and you will not asking troubling questions, and if you argue, you will keep on topic.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I hear that you're trying to find a magic bullet to help you never be abusive again. I get that you want to be the kind of man she fell in love with. You want to save your marriage and your sense of who you are, who you thought you were, who you want to be.
> 
> But in each reply you keep going back to what your wife did that caused you to act the way you did. Then you mention he lies, and you also talk about your shared cultural values with your wife.
> 
> ...



AP,

Are you not doing the same thing with regard to his wife's struggles with telling the truth? Of course she's walking on egg shells, trying not to get her husband upset, but is that not just another form of justification as well.

Seems both are using the other's reactions or anticipated reactions, even worse, to justify their behaviors. I just don't think you can lay blame on OP without also acknowledging that his wife is doing the same thing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mostlycontent said:


> AP,
> 
> Are you not doing the same thing with regard to his wife's struggles with telling the truth? Of course she's walking on egg shells, trying not to get her husband upset, but is that not just another form of justification as well.
> 
> Seems both are using the other's reactions or anticipated reactions, even worse, to justify their behaviors. I just don't think you can lay blame on OP without also acknowledging that his wife is doing the same thing.


She told him the truth before they married. He accepted her as she was and married her. That should have been the end of it.

Then he spent the next several years of their marriage attacking her over and over and over. No one is obligated to respond to their spouse while their spouse is actively working to abuse them.. to use their past to punish, humiliate, etc. She unfortunately did respond, trying to defuse the situation. At that point it's verbal self defense. Her fault after they were married was that she did not just walk out and leave him when he started to mistreat her.

She has finally realized that the way to handle an abusive husband is to not try to explain or defend herself but to walk away. Good for her.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mostlycontent said:


> AP,
> 
> Are you not doing the same thing with regard to his wife's struggles with telling the truth? Of course she's walking on egg shells, trying not to get her husband upset, but is that not just another form of justification as well.
> 
> Seems both are using the other's reactions or anticipated reactions, even worse, to justify their behaviors. I just don't think you can lay blame on OP without also acknowledging that his wife is doing the same thing.


Only read the first page, but . . .

I think when there is a big power differential between husband and wife, lying is pretty common. It's not good, but I think it's pretty common.

The solution is for the person with greater power to earn the trust of the person with lesser power, who is usually the person doing the lying. When the person who is lying no longer fears telling the truth, they will likely start telling the truth. So OP, ask your wife what you need to do to earn her trust, and then do it.

Also, ask yourself why this behavior of your wife in the past bothers you so much. You do understand that this is your problem and not hers, right? You need to straighten that out yourself. 

It is not your wife's responsibility to figure out your issues. You feel inadequate in some way, and you are holding your wife responsible. Mentally release her, and take a look at _yourself_.

Is everything that you learned growing up helping you? Or is it time to drop some of those beliefs, and learn new, more helpful ways of seeing things?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jld said:


> Only read the first page, but . . .
> 
> I think when there is a big power differential between husband and wife, lying is pretty common. It's not good, but I think it's pretty common.
> 
> ...


JLD, you might want to read his wife's post that she made in Nov/2013. It sheds a lot of light on the situation.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...41-please-help-past-shadows-our-marriage.html


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> JLD, you might want to read his wife's post that she made in Nov/2013. It sheds a lot of light on the situation.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...41-please-help-past-shadows-our-marriage.html


Poor girl. So glad she liberated herself.

Thanks for linking that, Ele.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

We're all trying to help you here, but you don't want to listen. You keep claiming your issue is her lies, but based on your own posts that's not true. You keep repeating the importance of virginity in your culture; your issue is the fact that she had sex with other men before you. And I read her thread; the statement that she wouldn't have told you without you questioning is absolutely false. She loved you and wanted to tell you, but when she made her first attempt at honesty you went crazy and severely punished her for it. You made it very clear that she could not come to you with anything, and have since made it very clear that she's a worthless pos in your eyes and should be on her knees every day thanking God that you did her the enormous favor of marrying her. Grow up now. What kind of man treats his wife like this? Listen carefully: your wife is afraid of you. She is afraid of your anger. If you want honesty you have to give her a safe place to be honest. If you can't do this divorce her and let her find someone who will appreciate her, believe me when I say she will have no trouble finding someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

intheory said:


> When people scream, rant, rave, and "foam at the mouth", so to speak; all in the name of seeking the truth, I am very suspicious.
> 
> Is it the high, dignified, nobility of truth they seek?
> 
> ...


DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Perhaps I am taking this way too personally because I have LIVED it. But coming from a woman who escaped a disaster of a marriage that had similar issues, I can't help but think: GOOD FOR HER FOR LEAVING. 

Hope she stays gone.

Good......work on you, that's all I can say. Learn that you CANNOT change, control, or manipulate people. I feel sorry for you, truly.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Life, I like what you said. In his culture, however, she may not be able to remarry, or not easily. In some cultures, a divorced woman has a very hard time marrying again.

I really hope that the OP can humble himself and look at things through his wife's eyes. I think it's the only healthy way to solve their problems.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

In many cultures, men still hold great, real power over women. I believe it is their moral obligation to use that power wisely, not selfishly.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

jld said:


> In many cultures, men still hold great, real power over women. I believe it is their moral obligation to use that power wisely, not selfishly.



I know not what this "power" you speak of. And which cultures?

OP and wife are living in the North American culture. They both apparently know all the great options they have here in dealing with the marriage issue.

I think the bottomline here is that the husband, OP, is now uncomfortable with his wife's past after rug-sweeping for years. Like buyer's remorse. 

OP essentially has 2 choices: leave or stay. A competent decent counselor should be able to help him decide. If he decides to stay in the marriage, he better not rug sweep his concerns again.

Possibly, OP feels he missed out on similar wild sex his wife had before her marriage. OP was a virgin when he got married. His wife, on the other hand, was not and was very experienced.

If this is so, how does OP deal with it? Separate (and divorce), then do the wild things he wants to do and get it out of his system? The draw of the wild can be very difficult to resist.

Or, he could ask his wife for a 3-year free pass? (likely not a good idea)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

aug said:


> I know not what this "power" you speak of. And which cultures?
> 
> OP and wife are living in the North American culture. They both apparently know all the great options they have here in dealing with the marriage issue.


The OP does not say that he and his wife live in North America. He does say that they are of a South Asian culture. Even if they live in North America, many who migrate here hold onto their original culture very strongly. 



aug said:


> I think the bottomline here is that the husband, OP, is now uncomfortable with his wife's past after rug-sweeping for years. Like buyer's remorse.


The OP did not rug-sweep his wife’s past for years. Instead he abused her for years to punish and humiliate her for things she did before she even met him.



aug said:


> OP essentially has 2 choices: leave or stay. A competent decent counselor should be able to help him decide. If he decides to stay in the marriage, he better not rug sweep his concerns again.


Again he did not rug sweep anything. What exactly do you expect him to do to his wife if he decides to stay? 

You also miss that he has no choice to stay in the marriage. His wife finally got strong enough to stand up for herself and SHE left. 



aug said:


> Possibly, OP feels he missed out on similar wild sex his wife had before her marriage. OP was a virgin when he got married. His wife, on the other hand, was not and was very experienced.


My impression is that his wife had sex about 3 times before she met him. Once, maybe twice, with 3 diff guys. That is not “very experienced”. 

He has to learn to deal with the fact that he made choices, like the choice to not have sex until it was with her and that he chose to marry a woman who had sex a few times before marriage.



aug said:


> If this is so, how does OP deal with it? Separate (and divorce), then do the wild things he wants to do and get it out of his system? The draw of the wild can be very difficult to resist.
> 
> Or, he could ask his wife for a 3-year free pass? (likely not a good idea)


He can file for divorce since she’s already left him. Then he can have all the wild sex he wants.

The suggestion that he cheat on her to even the score is horrible.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

When there is a male equivalent to slvt shaming then we can talk power equality. For eons women have been held hostage because their bodies never belonged to them, while men routinely exercise their autonomy and frequently are praised for doing so.

When a culture routinely shames, humiliates and casts out one sex for doing the same thing the other sex routinely does, there is power in holding HER back while HE goes forth!

This wife took a taste of the power and shamed herself by accepting the shame that doesn't belong to her. That's her crime, IMO.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> When there is a male equivalent to slvt shaming then we can talk power equality. For eons women have been held hostage because their bodies never belonged to them, while men routinely exercise their autonomy and frequently are praised for doing so.
> 
> When a culture routinely shames, humiliates and casts out one sex for doing the same thing the other sex routinely does, there is power in holding HER back while HE goes forth!
> 
> *This wife took a taste of the power and shamed herself by accepting the shame that doesn't belong to her. That's her crime, IMO*.


Hear, hear.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

She had sex with 4 men in 3 years (it's in her thread). He had none. 

The history is that she never told her husband the whole truth before marriage but eventually tickle truthed it out during the marriage.

Perhaps he would not had married her if he knew the whole extent of her sexual past (given that virginity was highly valued by him).

But he's in the marriage now. He must still be questioning if there are more to leak out.

Whatever it is, his present state of mind and marriage is not healthy.

The divorce should continue. And lessons learned for both parties.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It would not have to continue. The man could humble himself, and change.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

jld said:


> It would not have to continue. The man could humble himself, and change.


He could do that, but it's not likely given his attitude on this thread. I've known only one man IRL who has realized the err of his past ways and changed his life. But he is no longer with his original spouse. Sad to say that my experience has been that most men (people in general) don't want to change enough to put forth the effort to do so. Or at least make the changes last. Change is hard, admittedly......but worth it most times.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

jld said:


> It would not have to continue. The man could humble himself, and change.


Many of you seem to have such a cavalier attitude about OP's values. If the situation were reversed and he had been with several women while she had not, what advice would you be giving then?

What if in their culture, virginity was rather important for both parties and one lied to the other about their past. A lie that could have changed the outcome where the marriage would not have even occurred. A marriage that one party might feel is a sham because it was based on lies.

It's easy to say that OP should "grow up" or "change" but that doesn't appear to be the real issue here. Why should OP, or anyone else for that matter, have to compromise their values after the fact?

What if OP had a history of stealing or had been arrested numerous times but withheld that information prior to marriage, knowing that his wife may not have even stayed with him if she knew. What would you be telling her then?

Deceitfulness is the primary problem here and withholding information from your potential spouse only serves to rob them of the power of true choice. Whether you agree with OP's values or not, it is irrelevant. They are his choices, his values and his culture.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

aug said:


> She had sex with 4 men in 3 years (it's in her thread). He had none.
> 
> The history is that she never told her husband the whole truth before marriage but eventually tickle truthed it out during the marriage.
> 
> ...


I think someone understands the situation here and the gravity of the issue. If she did withhold this information prior to marriage, and I'm not positive about that, then this is a huge deal.

What if he were married before, which I'm sure would be frowned upon in his culture, and withheld that from her because he knew it would be a deal breaker if she knew. Suppose he didn't tell her that until after they were married. That's a horrible thing to do to someone else - to force them, in essence, to compromise their values.

At this point, he either changes his views of her or divorces. i do agree that he's got to be wondering if there's more to know that she's concealed. I know I would still wonder about that if my W had lied to me prior to our wedding.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

jld said:


> It would not have to continue. The man could humble himself, and change.



I wrote that divorce should continue because his position arise from a deep personal conviction.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

AP, thanks for replying again. A lot of what I did came from the way i was raised. It took me a long time to understand the situation from my wife's point of view. The way I have treated her, I think I need to ask for her forgiveness. She is a good woman. I understand that she made some mistakes when she was quite young and naive. But, then, I was also much younger and foolish to understand what damage my actions would cause. But, still, I see that I am absolutely wrong and I need to do a lot of work to straighten myself up. And by the way, my culture is strict and traditional, but also encourages forgiveness and compassion. 



Anon Pink said:


> I hear that you're trying to find a magic bullet to help you never be abusive again. I get that you want to be the kind of man she fell in love with. You want to save your marriage and your sense of who you are, who you thought you were, who you want to be.
> 
> But in each reply you keep going back to what your wife did that caused you to act the way you did. Then you mention he lies, and you also talk about your shared cultural values with your wife.
> 
> ...


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

GA HEART said:


> He could do that, but it's not likely given his attitude on this thread. I've known only one man IRL who has realized the err of his past ways and changed his life. But he is no longer with his original spouse. Sad to say that my experience has been that most men (people in general) don't want to change enough to put forth the effort to do so. Or at least make the changes last. Change is hard, admittedly......but worth it most times.


You are assuming that OP and the belief system of his culture are wrong, which is rather presumptuous. We don't even know what that culture and faith is so to assume that it's wrong is incredibly arrogant.

I do agree with you about change though. Most people feel they are right and aren't interested in changing. This is true of everybody and not just men. FWIW, I've seen way more men change than women but that's just been my experience.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

While you are right about the way to to handle an abusive husband, you are missing the part about what made her husband an abusive, controlling person. 
DW did not tell me anything except for a very small part about her past (which was, btw also a lie). I found out about her past mostly through co-workers (without ever asking, during chit-chat) who my wife had shared her stories with before we were a couple, through emails that her exs-wrote and through my questioning. Otherwise, DW did not have any intention of revealing anything before or after the marriage. My controlling behavior came initially from my questioning. I don't know why I became so obsessed with her past mistakes that I just could not see anything beyond them. It was a big shock for me then. Again, the region we belong to, this kind of sexual liberty is rare and largely unheard of.




EleGirl said:


> She told him the truth before they married. He accepted her as she was and married her. That should have been the end of it.
> 
> Then he spent the next several years of their marriage attacking her over and over and over. No one is obligated to respond to their spouse while their spouse is actively working to abuse them.. to use their past to punish, humiliate, etc. She unfortunately did respond, trying to defuse the situation. At that point it's verbal self defense. Her fault after they were married was that she did not just walk out and leave him when he started to mistreat her.
> 
> She has finally realized that the way to handle an abusive husband is to not try to explain or defend herself but to walk away. Good for her.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I am really bothered by her lies. I have stopped questioning her about her past. Before she left, we had an argument. Her past did not get drag in to it. She left because of a very unhealthy habit I have developed over the years of verbally abusing her. It just happened by default. 
You are right about everything else you said.



lifeistooshort said:


> We're all trying to help you here, but you don't want to listen. You keep claiming your issue is her lies, but based on your own posts that's not true. You keep repeating the importance of virginity in your culture; your issue is the fact that she had sex with other men before you. And I read her thread; the statement that she wouldn't have told you without you questioning is absolutely false. She loved you and wanted to tell you, but when she made her first attempt at honesty you went crazy and severely punished her for it. You made it very clear that she could not come to you with anything, and have since made it very clear that she's a worthless pos in your eyes and should be on her knees every day thanking God that you did her the enormous favor of marrying her. Grow up now. What kind of man treats his wife like this? Listen carefully: your wife is afraid of you. She is afraid of your anger. If you want honesty you have to give her a safe place to be honest. If you can't do this divorce her and let her find someone who will appreciate her, believe me when I say she will have no trouble finding someone else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Mostlycontent said:


> Many of you seem to have such a cavalier attitude about OP's values. *If the situation were reversed and he had been with several women while she had not, what advice would you be giving then?*


:lol:
There would be NO advice needed because it would not cause the slightest little problem. And if it did and the wife came here all enraged because he had sex prior to meeting her EVERY SINGLE REPLY would say essentially... "Get over yourself sweetheart! Being a jealous catty b!tch is totally unattractive!"



> What if in their culture, virginity was rather important for both parties and one lied to the other about their past. A lie that could have changed the outcome where the marriage would not have even occurred. A marriage that one party might feel is a sham because it was based on lies.


Dude you are not hearing a word anyone says. This is exactly what the situation is and we are telling the OP to get over himself and accept that his wife owns her body, past present and future!



> It's easy to say that OP should "grow up" or "change" but that doesn't appear to be the real issue here. Why should OP, or anyone else for that matter, have to compromise their values after the fact?
> 
> What if OP had a history of stealing or had been arrested numerous times but withheld that information prior to marriage, knowing that his wife may not have even stayed with him if she knew. What would you be telling her then?


But the analogy would only be correct if she knew about his past prior to marriage. As OP knew about his wife's past prior to marriage...he just couldn't get over it and used it to beat her down, shame her and humiliate her justifying by saying she lied. Baaa!



> Deceitfulness is the primary problem here and withholding information from your potential spouse only serves to rob them of the power of true choice. Whether you agree with OP's values or not, it is irrelevant. They are his choices, his values and his culture.



Once again, he knew before her married her that she was not a virgin. He accepted it. I fail to see the difference between having had sex 3-4 times in total to having had sex on e or twice. As you may recall, or perhaps not, it takes a woman a LONG time of sexual experience before she actually starts to get the most out of sex. My bet is she still hasn't orgasmed ever in her life! I doubt OP took the time to love her well enough to ensure she reached her peak...he was too busy shaming her, bullying her and being angry at her...not conducive to great sex!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

good104 said:


> While you are right about the way to to handle an abusive husband, you are missing the part about what made her husband an abusive, controlling person.
> DW did not tell me anything except for a very small part about her past (which was, btw also a lie). I found out about her past mostly through co-workers (without ever asking, during chit-chat) who my wife had shared her stories with before we were a couple, through emails that her exs-wrote and through my questioning. Otherwise, DW did not have any intention of revealing anything before or after the marriage. My controlling behavior came initially from my questioning. I don't know why I became so obsessed with her past mistakes that I just could not see anything beyond them. It was a big shock for me then. Again, the region we belong to, this kind of sexual liberty is rare and largely unheard of.



There you go. She was not forthright. It's like a slow Dday exposure over time. 

Your choice in what you want to do. Channel your anger properly. If you are not able to accept your wife's past/actions (thus far, it looks like you cant), use your anger to help move along the divorce.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

That's exactly what I am trying to do. I am trying to humble myself and also trying to see the situation through DWs eyes. I am really trying to make amends. This thread is always going to be an eye opener for me should I ever even think about straying. My wife is amazingly patient and nice. She just took my abuse over and over. And she is still trying to reconcile. I have not seen many people as great and forgiving as her. I am just waiting for the day when I am free of my anger issues. And of course I am looking forward for a better, happier, normal relationship with DW.



jld said:


> Life, I like what you said. In his culture, however, she may not be able to remarry, or not easily. In some cultures, a divorced woman has a very hard time marrying again.
> 
> I really hope that the OP can humble himself and look at things through his wife's eyes. I think it's the only healthy way to solve their problems.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

1) I stayed virgin by choice, not by any lack of options.
2) My relationship with DW is much bigger than just having sex.
3) It is not that we only fight all the time. We still make time for each other and appreciate each other too. There are times when we are both truly ourselves. 
4)My objective and mission is to be caring, loving and respectful with DW at all times.
5)Remember I said I belong to a strict and conservative culture? The rules that apply to my wife, also apply to me. I have no desire to go and look for wild encounters.
6) Sex is the last thing, if even, on my mind right now.
7) DW would not like to read that she is experienced in something she regrets doing deeply. I think you are being extremely insensitive and immature here. 




aug said:


> I know not what this "power" you speak of. And which cultures?
> 
> OP and wife are living in the North American culture. They both apparently know all the great options they have here in dealing with the marriage issue.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> :lol:
> There would be NO advice needed because it would not cause the slightest little problem. And if it did and the wife came here all enraged because he had sex prior to meeting her EVERY SINGLE REPLY would say essentially... "Get over yourself sweetheart! Being a jealous catty b!tch is totally unattractive!"
> 
> 
> ...


As Dexter says, "do not dude me".

It seems a bit unclear as to whether or not OP knew the whole truth prior to getting married. If he did, then he has made his decision and needs to learn to live with it. If not, then I stand by everything I stated.

Yes, it's her body and all of that but it's also his choice in whether to marry her or not. If she concealed that from him until after they were married, then I believe that is just plain wrong.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

We both belong to a conservative culture. And the rules that apply to my wife, also apply to me. DW is the only woman I have ever been intimate with. It is not about power or slvt shaming. I would have been facing the same kind of embarrassment if the situation was opposite and I was in DW's shoes.



Anon Pink said:


> When there is a male equivalent to slvt shaming then we can talk power equality. For eons women have been held hostage because their bodies never belonged to them, while men routinely exercise their autonomy and frequently are praised for doing so.
> 
> When a culture routinely shames, humiliates and casts out one sex for doing the same thing the other sex routinely does, there is power in holding HER back while HE goes forth!
> 
> This wife took a taste of the power and shamed herself by accepting the shame that doesn't belong to her. That's her crime, IMO.


----------



## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

We are not going to divorce. We are trying to work things out.



jld said:


> It would not have to continue. The man could humble himself, and change.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I am serious about making changes and working on it. Through reading, counseling and advice.



GA HEART said:


> He could do that, but it's not likely given his attitude on this thread. I've known only one man IRL who has realized the err of his past ways and changed his life. But he is no longer with his original spouse. Sad to say that my experience has been that most men (people in general) don't want to change enough to put forth the effort to do so. Or at least make the changes last. Change is hard, admittedly......but worth it most times.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

good104 said:


> We are not going to divorce. We are trying to work things out.


Learn these phrases: "Help me understand," and "How can I help?"


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Good,

Read this. Learn it. Own it.

The Three Faces of Victim


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think it would be good to take a look at some of the beliefs you grew up with regarding men and women and sexual relations, and see if you want to continue believing in those things, see if they're still serving you. If not, I would invite you to drop the beliefs that are no longer serving you, and adopt new ones that fit better.

I would like you to really start listening to your wife. Continue examining your conscience. Acknowledge your own shortcomings, and ask forgiveness for them. Start being transparent with your wife, and encourage her to be transparent with you.

Remember that anger is the second emotion; hurt is the first. When you start to get angry, look for the hurt underneath. Really look hard at the source of that hurt. That is the source of the problem. That is what needs to be addressed.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

You are the only person who seems to get what my point is. While I agree that the way I have behaved with my wife is absolutely wrong and there is no justification for it. All I am trying to convey to people here is that values are important, in fact very important to some and so is freedom to make an informed choice. I wished DW never lied to me and told me the truth in a way that would give me a reasonable idea about her past lifestyle, mistakes and choices before we got attached emotionally. It would have been much easier for both of us to move on. And to be honest, DW has so many great qualities that I would have stayed with her regardless. It's just that it is much easier to make a decision when you have complete trust on a person and when you see that the person is taking responsibility. And think, the reason my wife held the truth is that she knew she was not supposed to get involve with people without commitment and sincerity. She agrees that she disregarded her values and for a while forgot her identity. Deception can never be justified, just like abuse. As deception is capable of ruining lives.

Thanks for understanding my perspective. 



Mostlycontent said:


> Many of you seem to have such a cavalier attitude about OP's values. If the situation were reversed and he had been with several women while she had not, what advice would you be giving then?
> 
> What if in their culture, virginity was rather important for both parties and one lied to the other about their past. A lie that could have changed the outcome where the marriage would not have even occurred. A marriage that one party might feel is a sham because it was based on lies.
> 
> ...


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

jld said:


> I think it would be good to take a look at some of the beliefs you grew up with regarding men and women and sexual relations, and see if you want to continue believing in those things, see if they're still serving you. If not, I would invite you to drop the beliefs that are no longer serving you, and adopt new ones that fit better.
> 
> I would like you to really start listening to your wife. Continue examining your conscience. Acknowledge your own shortcomings, and ask forgiveness for them. Start being transparent with your wife, and encourage her to be transparent with you.
> 
> Remember that anger is the second emotion; hurt is the first. When you start to get angry, look for the hurt underneath. Really look hard at the source of that hurt. That is the source of the problem. That is what needs to be addressed.


While I understand your intent, I think this is a bad idea that isn't typically as feasible as you might think. As a Christian person, I would not decide to cast aside certain moral beliefs just because my W or I fell short of them. They are ideals that we should try to meet. We should never be adjusting our moral code and principles to meet our own flaws. That's just backwards.

I don't know what religion or culture OP is referring to but adjusting your own moral values and culture is akin to throwing away everything you believe in. That's no simple task if it's even attainable at all.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OP, how about making a deal with DW that going forward you both are committed to transparency? The past is forgiven and the future is a clean slate.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

good104 said:


> You are the only person who seems to get what my point is. While I agree that the way I have behaved with my wife is absolutely wrong and there is no justification for it. All I am trying to convey to people here is that values are important, in fact very important to some and so is freedom to make an informed choice. I wished DW never lied to me and told me the truth in a way that would give me a reasonable idea about her past lifestyle, mistakes and choices before we got attached emotionally. It would have been much easier for both of us to move on. And to be honest, DW has so many great qualities that I would have stayed with her regardless. It's just that it is much easier to make a decision when you have complete trust on a person and when you see that the person is taking responsibility. And think, the reason my wife held the truth is that she knew she was not supposed to get involve with people without commitment and sincerity. She agrees that she disregarded her values and for a while forgot her identity. Deception can never be justified, just like abuse. As deception is capable of ruining lives.
> 
> Thanks for understanding my perspective.


Thank you for the kind words. I honestly understand the importance of values and your point of view. Others may be shadow boxing and punching at the symptoms or even pushing their own agenda. Who knows but there are a few others on this thread who get it as well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

He doesn't have to give up any beliefs that he feels are still serving him. It is simply an invitation to examine them in light of an evolved understanding.

And I agree that a moral code, even if we fall short of it, is very helpful in life. Morality is not supposed to limit our happiness in life; it is supposed to be a roadmap to getting there. I am just hoping, for his sake, that the roadmap is accurate.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Yes you have punished her for telling the truth. The very first time she opened up to you what happened?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But she's not at fault for continuously lying to him, right?
You make it sound like she's being strong an independent when she constantly mislead him about her past, doesn't really make sense.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

That's exactly what we are going to do.



jld said:


> OP, how about making a deal with DW that going forward you both are committed to transparency? The past is forgiven and the future is a clean slate.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

jld said:


> *I think it would be good to take a look at some of the beliefs you grew up with regarding men and women and sexual relations, and see if you want to continue believing in those things, see if they're still serving you. If not, I would invite you to drop the beliefs that are no longer serving you, and adopt new ones that fit better.*
> 
> I would like you to really start listening to your wife. Continue examining your conscience. Acknowledge your own shortcomings, and ask forgiveness for them. Start being transparent with your wife, and encourage her to be transparent with you.
> 
> Remember that anger is the second emotion; hurt is the first. When you start to get angry, look for the hurt underneath. Really look hard at the source of that hurt. That is the source of the problem. That is what needs to be addressed.


Would you say that if he grew up as a devout christian and he married someone who went against the christian faith.

I'm not saying I agree with the OP or his beliefs match mine, but to tell someone to change your beliefs if they don't fit your life...coming from a christian...seems a bit off.

No offense JLD, you're a great poster and contributor to this site but I doubt you'd tell someone to drop their christian beliefs because they weren't convenient. But that's exactly what you just told the OP.

EDIT: I do like your follow up post later though. I don't agree with having fluid morals (I'm not suggesting you think that would be good either). Morals and ethics should dictate actions and thoughts, not the reverse. I do agree that maybe he needs to review said morals, being blind to your morals is also dangerous.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Would you say that if he grew up as a devout christian and he married someone who went against the christian faith.
> 
> I'm not saying I agree with the OP or his beliefs match mine, but to tell someone to change your beliefs if they don't fit your life...coming from a christian...seems a bit off.
> 
> No offense JLD, you're a great poster and contributor to this site but I doubt you'd tell someone to drop their christian beliefs because they weren't convenient. But that's exactly what you just told the OP.


I think there's an idea out there, D&H, that if you're not a virgin when you find your true love, you are dirty somehow. And the person marrying you is tainted by association. That is an example of a belief I think it would be helpful to let go of.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

As a guy that has learned way, way, WAY too much about my wife's past...

I think it starts with making some decisions.

With where you are at right now with what you know, what you feel, and how much you can trust your wife vs throwing it all away...

Are you still in this?

If you are -- and I suspect you are -- you then need to come up with a management strategy.

How are you going to become OK with this? Dig through the gory details and put yourself and herself through her past (for her again)?

For me, I have to sit with it. I have to have a little hissy fit, get all introspective and moody, and I put myself through it. Straight through the center of it. Picture my wife doing everything with whatever guy is the issue in her past. Live it, breathe it for a few hours on my own.

And then do my best to put it down and let it go.

And we've recently come up with some boundaries and strategies we will try to live with to not trigger this kind of stuff again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Facing reality instead of avoiding it. Finding out you can survive it.

Remember: _ What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger!_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

jld said:


> Facing reality instead of avoiding it. Finding out you can survive it.
> 
> Remember: _ What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger!_


Not always.

Sometimes what doesn't kill you merely cripples you.

I'm learning to avoid damage that just happens needlessly.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

marduk said:


> Not always.
> 
> Sometimes what doesn't kill you merely cripples you.
> 
> I'm learning to avoid damage that just happens needlessly.


You're stronger than that, Marduk. I know you can handle it. You are not crippled.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

good104 said:


> We both belong to a conservative culture. *And the rules that apply to my wife, also apply to me. *DW is the only woman I have ever been intimate with. It is not about power or slvt shaming. I would have been facing the same kind of embarrassment if the situation was opposite and I was in DW's shoes.


Excuse me but that is bull shyte! 

I have never ever ever heard of a man being beaten to death by his sisters and mother for not being pure! 

I have never ever heard of a man being put out of his house in any conservative culture because he was accused of adultery! 

I have never ever heard of a man being deemed a worthless pile of flesh because he wasn't a virgin on his wedding day.

Have YOU?

For the record, I am not a Christian so this isn't based on one faith being better or the "one true way" this is based on men having power denied women.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Would you say that if he grew up as a devout christian and he married someone who went against the christian faith.
> 
> I'm not saying I agree with the OP or his beliefs match mine, but to tell someone to change your beliefs if they don't fit your life...coming from a christian...seems a bit off.
> 
> ...



I don't think jld is suggesting he give up his beliefs, just that he reevaluate what's still applicable in his life at this point What if you had a Muslim that was raised to believe that girls don't go to school? Or that she should be stoned for a rape? Surely you wouldn't be here defending their values?

All she's saying is that right now he has a wife he loves and wants to remain married to and who was with other men before him, so he might consider whether that value is worth anything to him right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

What society does to punish is different than having a set of rules. I am talking about the moral viewpoint. The rules are same for both, men and women. And yes, I have heard of even men getting severely punished by a conservative society.




Anon Pink said:


> Excuse me but that is bull shyte!
> 
> I have never ever ever heard of a man being beaten to death by his sisters and mother for not being pure!
> 
> ...


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

jld said:


> I think there's an idea out there, D&H, that if you're not a virgin when you find your true love, you are dirty somehow. And the person marrying you is tainted by association. That is an example of a belief I think it would be helpful to let go of.


Now that I could agree with. People make mistakes and fall short. In fact, all of us do. It's better to forgive and/or accept than it is to hold onto those notions that people are inferior for having had a moral failing.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

jld said:


> You're stronger than that, Marduk. I know you can handle it. You are not crippled.


I appreciate it.

I'm not crippled yet.

But I've walked some fine lines my friend.

And I will never, _ever_ trust _anyone_ 100% again after my first marriage.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

good104 said:


> What society does to punish is different than having set of rules. I am talking about the moral viewpoint. The rules are same for both, men and women. And yes, I have heard of even men getting severely punished by a conservative society.



I will say that I appreciate that you hold yourself to the same standards, that quality is often lacking where sex is concerned. If you guys can agree that there will be no more lies and no more abuse you might have a chance, but please remember that you can't fly off the handle and punish her when she comes to you with truth you don't like. You don't have to be happy about everything she tells you but you do need to provide a safe environment for her to be honest. You're her husband, you're supposed to be the place she can come to. She has to know that while you might be upset you'll deal with it together; abuse provides absolutely no incentive for truthfulness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I have decided to never go back and ask her anything about her past ever. My intention is to move on and make our future happier and more productive. I fully understand that it is my responsibility to provide her with a safer environment to express her feelings and fears. I have decided that my name would never appear next to the word 'abuser'.

Thanks.



lifeistooshort said:


> I will say that I appreciate that you hold yourself to the same standards, that quality is often lacking where sex is concerned. If you guys can agree that there will be no more lies and no more abuse you might have a chance, but please remember that you can't fly off the handle and punish her when she comes to you with truth you don't like. You don't have to be happy about everything she tells you but you do need to provide a safe environment for her to be honest. You're her husband, you're supposed to be the place she can come to. She has to know that while you might be upset you'll deal with it together; abuse provides absolutely no incentive for truthfulness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

good104 said:


> I have decided to never go back and ask her anything about her past ever. My intention is to move on and make our future happier and more productive. I fully understand that it is my responsibility to provide her with a safer environment to express her feelings and fears. I have decided that my name would never appear next to the word 'abuser'.
> 
> Thanks.


I don't know if this will matter to you but I read your wife's posts and as a woman I can tell you that in her eyes the men before you were nothing; they may as well be gum on the bottom of her shoe next to you. She holds you in very high regard.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

good104 said:


> What society does to punish is different than having set of rules. I am talking about the moral viewpoint. The rules are same for both, men and women. And yes, I have heard of even men getting severely punished by a conservative society.


Not to belabor the point, but I have never heard of a man being beaten to death because he didn't uphold the conservative culture's ban on sex outside of marriage. Ever. Do you have any links?


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

good104 said:


> I have decided to never go back and ask her anything about her past ever. My intention is to move on and make our future happier and more productive. I fully understand that it is my responsibility to provide her with a safer environment to express her feelings and fears. I have decided that my name would never appear next to the word 'abuser'.
> 
> Thanks.


Oh, sure, go ahead and be the hero NOW. I'd like to hear your wife's point of view. She may have decided that you're not worth her future, her feelings or her fears.

One can only hope...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

phoenix_ said:


> But she's not at fault for continuously lying to him, right?
> You make it sound like she's being strong an independent when she constantly mislead him about her past, doesn't really make sense.


This thread isn't about HER wrong doings. It's about HIS. Have YOU read his wife's thread?

Have you read my posts in this thread? It seems you are picking out a fact here and there because maybe it's close to your sitch?

It doesn't matter that she lied about having had a boyfriend prior to even meeting him. It matters a LOT that for several years the OP was an abusive bully and his excuse doesn't cut it. 

The victim isn't on trial here! The perpetrator is.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

marduk said:


> I appreciate it.
> 
> I'm not crippled yet.
> 
> ...


Marduk, (gently),_ never say never._ 

I am telling you, you are stronger than that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

good104 said:


> I have decided to never go back and ask her anything about her past ever. *My intention is to move on and make our future happier and more productive. I fully understand that it is my responsibility to provide her with a safer environment to express her feelings and fears. I have decided that my name would never appear next to the word 'abuser'.*
> 
> Thanks.


I think as you get healthier, you will be able to hear about her past, if both you and she want to go there. It might be a gauge for your growth, actually. 

But there is no rush. And I really appreciated those three sentences.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

I will try to find some links. But later. I do not want to disclose much about my identity and where exactly we are from at this point. I hope you will understand.



Anon Pink said:


> Not to belabor the point, but I have never heard of a man being beaten to death because he didn't uphold the conservative culture's ban on sex outside of marriage. Ever. Do you have any links?


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

She just wants to separate for a while to give us both some space and time to reflect and heal. It is my understanding that she wants to return. She has express her desire for me to start marriage counseling. She is also seeking counseling separately.
We both understand the hurt and damage our actions have caused and are fully committed to make our marriage a success. 




Revamped said:


> Oh, sure, go ahead and be the hero NOW. I'd like to hear your wife's point of view. She may have decided that you're not worth her future, her feelings or her fears.
> 
> One can only hope...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Honestly, there is nothing that I don't already know. And even if there is, I don't really want to know. I say so what if she made some mistakes? We all do. I did too by being so abusive. In fact I was abusing her for nothing lately. My big mistake. I was taking her for granted. I have learnt my lesson. And thank god, I learnt it before it was too late. Not only I am working toward becoming a calmer, humble person, but, also learning about inner bonding and real value that DW brings into my life.




jld said:


> I think as you get healthier, you will be able to hear about her past, if both you and she want to go there. It might be a gauge for your growth, actually.
> 
> But there is no rush. And I really appreciated those three sentences.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

good104 said:


> Honestly, there is nothing that I don't already know. And even if there is, I don't really want to know. I say so what if she made some mistakes? We all do. I did too by being so abusive. In fact I was abusing her for nothing lately. My big mistake. I was taking her for granted. I have learnt my lesson. And thank god, I learnt it before it was too late. Not only I am working toward becoming a calmer, humble person, but, also learning about inner bonding and real value that DW brings into my life.


:smthumbup:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

jld said:


> Marduk, (gently),_ never say never._
> 
> I am telling you, you are stronger than that.


Never ever never not once ever.

One thing I know is myself, and how fallible human beings are.

Each day is a roll of the dice and a new set of choices. Each day.

We can stack the odds one way or the other... but odds are odds.

Everything that has a beginning has an ending. And every set of dice come up snake eyes if you roll them enough.

This is reality.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thank you. You are absolutely hundred percent correct. I always knew this and felt it. And yet, I took her for granted. And that's why I am in so much pain. My wife is the nicest person I have ever seen or met. She was and is fully capable of living her life independently, yet she put up with me for so long and so graciously. I regret every single word that I uttered in anger that hurt or even upset her. But, this is where the buck stops. 




lifeistooshort said:


> I don't know if this will matter to you but I read your wife's posts and as a woman I can tell you that in her eyes the men before you were nothing; they may as well be gum on the bottom of her shoe next to you. She holds you in very high regard.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, Marduk, I have more faith in humanity than you do. Really, I have more faith in _you_ than you do.

You are going to heal. I know you are. I believe that.

End of threadjack, OP! Sorry!


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Agree, past is forgiven and forgotten. And present and future are a clean slate.



jld said:


> OP, how about making a deal with DW that going forward you both are committed to transparency? The past is forgiven and the future is a clean slate.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Personal said:


> Having sex before marriage and or multiple partners is not a mistake.


In many cultures and many faiths, it is. Have you read any of this thread or just enough to do a "drive by" post that is irrelevant.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Mostlycontent said:


> In many cultures and many faiths, it is. Have you read any of this thread or just enough to do a "drive by" post that is irrelevant.


Yes, and in those cultures it is the female who is shamed for not having remained pure while the male ...um....crickets. Nothing happens to negatively affect the male. 

Show me a case where a man has a negative consequence because he got laid prior to marriage? Anyone? ...crickets again...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

What about telling lies? That's the main issue for me.

And now, about why having sex without commitment or having multiple partners is wrong? because it violates the original design of what sex is for. A permanent union between a husband and wife. Self-control and temperance should be promoted as a virtue in society. Self-indulgence and short term benefits should be left to the animals,- and not promoted or accommodated for humans. And, yes, this is how bible describes it, not my conservative, backwards culture.



Personal said:


> Then there was The Age of Enlightenment, unfortunately many cultures and faiths are yet to catch up.
> 
> Of course it's relevant, if men like good104 didn't hang onto such archaic ideals. They might enjoy better emotional/sexual relationships, with the women they profess to love.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Sounds like your wife lies to you because she is afraid of you.

If you want her to stop lying, you need to stop making her afraid. Problem is, you can't seem to stop because her lying makes you so angry.

So if you start looking into ways to manage your anger, you might start to move towards being a man she can trust enough to be honest.

From what I read of her post, her lies are things like telling you she posted a letter you asked her to when she had actually forgotten. Why? A blind man could see the answer to that; fear.

I don't think her habit is lying, I think her habit is fearing your reaction, and you keep affirming it every day.

You want things to change. Do you think she can suddenly stop fearing a man who keeps making her afraid? Especially with her history of being treated like crap?

The change has to start with you, but I think you keep looking for ways of making it about her lying and her past instead of about your anger.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Good,
> 
> Read this. Learn it. Own it.
> 
> The Three Faces of Victim


That's a great article. Thanks for posting the link.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Reading through the article that was linked I saw this:

"Here’s a typical example, that might easily show up in relationship …

Don came home late for dinner. Ann, his wife, was angry. She had prepared a good meal and it was still sitting, uneaten and cold, an hour later. Like many SGP’s, Ann’s tendency is to assume the worse (“He did this to me”) and attack. So instead of checking in with her husband, she immediately launches into; “You told me you would be here on time. You lied! I can never trust you to tell me the truth.” When Don tries to explain that he got stuck in traffic, Ann is not listening. Instead she justifies her reaction,“You always have excuses! You expect me to believe you. You’re a liar … ” She continues to hurl insults, even resorting to name calling. Later, she explained that he had hurt her and therefore deserved the way she treated him. This is classic Persecutor reasoning.

Because Ann sees herself as a victim who doesn’t have the right to take care of herself or set boundaries. Instead of saying something like, “Hi Sweetheart, I had dinner ready on time; when you didn’t get here, I went ahead and ate mine and left yours warming on the stove,” she resorts to retaliation. Her belief that she is at the mercy of someone who is trying to hurt her keeps her striking out in a distorted and unnecessary effort to protect herself."

I see the OP as the persecutor here, his wife as the 'liar'.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Good104 is definitely playing the persecutor role.

But understand that, in his mind, he is a victim first because he was "hurt" by her lies. So his persecution (abuse) is justified, from his point of view.

"Poor me! Poor me! She lied to me! How dare she! I'll teach her a lesson now!" <cue the verbal attack>

It's tough to have a healthy relationship when both partners are dancing around the corners of the triangle.

Good, stay off the corners.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Look I understand south Asian cultures very well and I do understand where you are coming from. 

You both have different sets of problems compounded by your ethnic backgrounds.

Lets deal with hers first. She was given "freedom" when left alone in the country and she took it and enjoyed it. Many south Asian women would have. Some would have been more discreet about it but they do it and lie about it never the same. Her problem was that she did not give you the whole truth. You tried to justify it by saying that she is basically a nice person who lies to spare hurt for the other person. That may be true. I think that she was scared she would lose you but knew that one day you might find out so she gave you a partial truth (just one lover before and someone she was in love with). A more healthy discussion would have been "yes I have had lovers before and had an emotional attachment with a couple of them if you must know, but I am in love with you now and want only you". So she needs help with dealing with her lies etc.

You are a typical south Asian guy whose pride was hurt. I think the fact that she had multiple lovers was not as bad (if you really think about it) as the fact that she did not come clean but actively lied to you about it. After all, she was still the same girl you fell madly in love with. Remember she brought it up and told you but didn't tell you the truth from then on. This is why I understand where you are coming from.

You need to accept the following:


You love this woman and she loves you. There is no doubt about it. You married her and are obliged to help her. If she has a problem with lying, work with her on it and get her help.

You have anger and self-esteem problems too. This is an even bigger problem in your marriage and you definitely need to get help with this. I am not asking you to abandon your south Asian past but to get more progressive about it. It will only lead to better things for you as an individual and also for your marriage.

Go back and apologise to her and bring your family back home. Watch yourself so that you don't act out again and tell her that you are going to get help and would appreciate her help in that matter.

Also when you are able to (without getting angry) have a frank discussion with her about the way you feel and her lies and that you think maybe the two of you should work on helping her with not feeling obliged to lie.

I think you will reap good rewards this way and my best wishes to you both. Go get your family!


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Great advice. I am trying to do exactly that.
Thank you.



manfromlamancha said:


> Look I understand south Asian cultures very well and I do understand where you are coming from.
> 
> You both have different sets of problems compounded by your ethnic backgrounds.
> 
> ...


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I"m a bit behind the times, but wanted to state that my point was not to down play beliefs or values. He can have them all he wants. But the situation is what it is, plain and simple. He either gets over THE PAST or he doesn't. 

This woman is in my prayers for sure. My ex promised me he would change as well (call me an agenda filled bia if you wish.) Sure, he tried for about 6 months. Then things got worse for another 2.5 years before he finally left. He couldn't sustain. Old habits die hard. And I guarentee you I put 100% into it as I"m sure this woman has and will continue to do.

I"m out of this one. It makes me too sad to read.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

jld said:


> I think there's an idea out there, D&H, that if you're not a virgin when you find your true love, you are dirty somehow. And the person marrying you is tainted by association. That is an example of a belief I think it would be helpful to let go of.


I COMPLETELY agree with you. 100%.

My beliefs and your beliefs match on that issue.

But I'm not going to tell someone they need to change THEIR beliefs. Especially an entire culture. 

Now to somewhat contradict myself, there is a fine line though where cultural beliefs cross the line on basic human rights, such as some of the abhorrent things we see in Africa for instance. That's why I agree that morals and ethics should be held strong, but not blindly.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You are a good person, D&H.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I am actually going to go out on a limb here and say, based on the experience I've had with this sort of thing, although its hard to change one's basic upbringing and beliefs, I think the OP can pull through with help and focus. Here's the thing, when this does happen, the results are truly awesome (some of the best marriages I have seen). OP use your cultural heritage of assimilation of customs and practices to assimilate those parts of western culture that will make you stronger and better - and be a better husband.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> OP use your cultural heritage of assimilation of customs and practices to assimilate those parts of western culture that will make you stronger and better - and be a better husband.


:iagree:


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> This thread isn't about HER wrong doings. It's about HIS. Have YOU read his wife's thread?
> 
> Have you read my posts in this thread? It seems you are picking out a fact here and there because maybe it's close to your sitch?
> 
> ...


Actually the title mentions her lies and behavior too so why isn't that relevant to you? Is it only the man's mistakes that matter to you?
I saw your post and you started saying some garbage about how he doesn't own her body. He didn't say anything about owning her and he didn't sound like he was justifying his behavior, he said he wants to change and not be the way he is but he gave an explanation about what made him upset in the first place. 

What if your husband told you years later that he had sex with all of your friends and your mother before you met? Would you say the same thing, that you don't own his body and that's fine? 
You might say it's different because they're your friends but then someone could just say that's just your culture and you need to get over it. 
It's really funny how excuse all of her lying to him and just bash him for everything he does wrong.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

phoenix_ said:


> Actually the title mentions her lies and behavior too so why isn't that relevant to you? Is it only the man's mistakes that matter to you?
> I saw your post and you started saying some garbage about how he doesn't own her body. He didn't say anything about owning her and he didn't sound like he was justifying his behavior, he said he wants to change and not be the way he is but he gave an explanation about what made him upset in the first place.
> 
> What if your husband told you years later that he had sex with all of your friends and your mother before you met? Would you say the same thing, that you don't own his body and that's fine?
> ...



I am not ignoring the fact that he is triggered by his wife's lies. What I am advocating for is that he look to himself to find the cues to what prompts her to lie in the first place.

There is a huge difference between the pathological liar, as seen on SNL, and someone lying to protect them self.

When a parent says their child lies, I always ask what are the prompts to those lie and then suggest they remove the prompts to help the child stop developing the knee jerk reaction to lie.

Standing in the child's room and pointing at a wet towel on the floor the parent yells, "who left the wet towel on the floor!" The child in fear of punishment will say "not me." 

But if the parent calmly points to the towel, instructs the child to dispose of it properly, then reminds the child not to leave the wet towel on the floor, or even punishes the child, "I see you've left your towel on the floor again, from now on you need to fully change in the bathroom until you remember to hang up your towel."

In OP's sitch, he has created a wholly unsafe environment and it is HIM triggering the lies because he will punish her for telling the truth.

Her lies are his fault. Her fear of his reaction prompts the lies.

She doesn't get a free pass though. But this thread is not to help her stop lying, it's to help him stop abusing. When he takes responsibility for prompting an environment of judgment and fear, the lying will stop.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I am not ignoring the fact that he is triggered by his wife's lies. What I am advocating for is that he look to himself to find the cues to what prompts her to lie in the first place.
> 
> There is a huge difference between the pathological liar, as seen on SNL, and someone lying to protect them self.
> 
> ...


If what the OP says is correct then you're wrong. He said he was unusually quiet and hurt after she told him about her relationships for the first time and left. She also admitted that she lied to him out of fear of losing him, not about him being abusive which came later. 

So HER lies are not his fault, and it's sad how people are trying to justify that they are just because they don't agree with his cultural or religious values. 
There's lots of cultures in the world and somebody could just as easily come to you and say you're all backwards for not having open marriages. The hypocrisy in this thread is just shocking.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

phoenix_ said:


> If what the OP says is correct then you're wrong. He said he was unusually quiet and hurt after she told him about her relationships for the first time and left. She also admitted that she lied to him out of fear of losing him, not about him being abusive which came later.
> 
> So HER lies are not his fault, and it's sad how people are trying to justify that they are just because they don't agree with his cultural or religious values.
> There's lots of cultures in the world and somebody could just as easily come to you and say you're all backwards for not having open marriages. The hypocrisy in this thread is just shocking.


Do you think she interpreted his withdrawal from her as understanding, as accepting, or as if he was in the process of rejecting her? From the very first time his expectations were unmet, he demonstrated that he could not be counted on the hear the truth and cope with it. Doesn't matter what their cultures were.

She loved him and wanted to be with him but she couldn't change her past. When she tried to tell him of her past, which by the standard of the country she lived wasn't bad at all!

Like I said in an earlier post, she attempted to embrace the modernity commonly accepted in the country where she had lived. But she ended up in love with a man who never embraced modernity and could only tolerate his tradition being adhered to. This is not me excusing her lies, this is me understanding her quandary....something her husband should do...


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Do you think she interpreted his withdrawal from her as understanding, as accepting, or as if he was in the process of rejecting her? From the very first time his expectations were unmet, he demonstrated that he could not be counted on the hear the truth and cope with it. Doesn't matter what their cultures were.
> 
> She loved him and wanted to be with him but she couldn't change her past. When she tried to tell him of her past, which by the standard of the country she lived wasn't bad at all!
> 
> Like I said in an earlier post, she attempted to embrace the modernity commonly accepted in the country where she had lived. But she ended up in love with a man who never embraced modernity and could only tolerate his tradition being adhered to. This is not me excusing her lies, this is me understanding her quandary....something her husband should do...


His initial reaction was completely justified. How is he supposed to be understanding about being lied to about something so important to him, which she also knew would upset him like that? 

It doesn't matter what culture she's trying to embrace or did in the past, she knew where he was coming from and she lied to him so he would accept her and then came clean when he was already invested.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

phoenix_ said:


> His initial reaction was completely justified. How is he supposed to be understanding about being lied to about something so important to him, which she also knew would upset him like that?
> 
> It doesn't matter what culture she's trying to embrace or did in the past, she knew where he was coming from and she lied to him so he would accept her and then came clean when he was already invested.


I'm not sure of the exact chronology of events. My understanding is that she allowed him to believe that she had always behaved in accordance with their tradition. A lie by omission. Which is very different that an outright lie. Then when she realized how seriously attached to one another they were becoming, she came clean with a testing the waters type admission. He reacted badly.

If he had been wounded by her admission, but also talked to her and accepted her flaws and all, made her feel understood instead of feeling judged things would have turned out very differently I believe.

Look Phoenix, we are clearly not going to agree. So let's just leave it at that?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You are the one who should beg forgiveness from your wife, don't you think?. Along with that, you should atone to your wife and child, is that not so? 

Why? Because you chose to marry a woman you did not respect. You deceived her. Otherwise, I am certain she would not have risked having an enemy in her home and to father her child if she knew you did not love ore respect her. . 

I think you hid the fact that you did not marry her because you loved her. Love cannot exist in a heart that is so filled with contempt. You compound that deception with bringing an innocent child into an unstable environment by a mother you do not love nor respect. Now the child is in for a life effected by your apparent lack of empathy. 

You should work very hard to own your faults and leave your wife alone. She has suffered enough for her sin of premarital sex. Your sins are much worse. I am certain you will agree if you are able to look within yourself and judge with the same harshness you used with your wife. 

One final consideration. You mention the cultural values that drive your feelings. But you conveniently ignored those cultural dictates when you married. You could have walked away and avoided this mess you created with your deception. Any culture would have supported that decision but none would support what you are now doing.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I think at the time of marriage, BOTH parties knew that things were not quite right (not just the OP) and both decided to try and make a go of things, knowing things were not quite right.

OP has to only apologise for his angry outbursts and for his mental abuse of his wife. Wife has to apologise for lying and deceiving him at the start.

On another note, there has been some discussion as to why the wife lied. I do not believe for one moment that she lied because she feared violence. I believe she lied because of a combination of 3 things: 


fear of losing the man she loved;
cultural taboos/upbringing;
and third (not to be discounted), possibly a personality defect (which, by the way, a number of us might have to one degree or another) which is a tendency to lie to gain advantage or take the easy way out.

In any case, the real problem here is OP has to rationalise and come to terms with why he feels the way he does and then realise that since the problems are all in his head, he needs to get help real quick to deal with them. He really needs to "have this out" with someone who is not only trained to do so, but also has some appreciation of his cultural background to better understand the demons he is dealing with (a very hard mix to find in a counsellor).


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm not sure of the exact chronology of events. My understanding is that she allowed him to believe that she had always behaved in accordance with their tradition. A lie by omission. Which is very different that an outright lie. Then when she realized how seriously attached to one another they were becoming, she came clean with a testing the waters type admission. He reacted badly.
> 
> If he had been wounded by her admission, but also talked to her and accepted her flaws and all, made her feel understood instead of feeling judged things would have turned out very differently I believe.
> 
> Look Phoenix, we are clearly not going to agree. So let's just leave it at that?


We definitely won't agree, but it's because of your obvious bias against him. You've made every excuse for her behavior and bashed him for every mistake he made. You should try being objective in your posts.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Hmm, well, I got over her past. My issue was DW's deception. Beside, as I mentioned before, I have decided that my name and the words 'abuser' or 'abusive' are never going to appear next to each other. And I am doing it not just for DW, I am doing it for myself too so that I could pry myself out of my miserable and sorry state of mind. I still have my entire future ahead of me, and life is too short for me to be angry at my loving wife. We will get over it one last and final time. I am not bothering DW ever!




GA HEART said:


> I"m a bit behind the times, but wanted to state that my point was not to down play beliefs or values. He can have them all he wants. But the situation is what it is, plain and simple. He either gets over THE PAST or he doesn't.
> 
> This woman is in my prayers for sure. My ex promised me he would change as well (call me an agenda filled bia if you wish.) Sure, he tried for about 6 months. Then things got worse for another 2.5 years before he finally left. He couldn't sustain. Old habits die hard. And I guarentee you I put 100% into it as I"m sure this woman has and will continue to do.
> 
> I"m out of this one. It makes me too sad to read.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for the encouragement. I am going to try my best to bring positive changes in my personality. And in my mentality.



manfromlamancha said:


> I am actually going to go out on a limb here and say, based on the experience I've had with this sort of thing, although its hard to change one's basic upbringing and beliefs, I think the OP can pull through with help and focus. Here's the thing, when this does happen, the results are truly awesome (some of the best marriages I have seen). OP use your cultural heritage of assimilation of customs and practices to assimilate those parts of western culture that will make you stronger and better - and be a better husband.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

AP, Not trying to sound condescending but please read what phoenix is saying. He gets it, you don't.




Anon Pink said:


> I'm not sure of the exact chronology of events. My understanding is that she allowed him to believe that she had always behaved in accordance with their tradition. A lie by omission. Which is very different that an outright lie. Then when she realized how seriously attached to one another they were becoming, she came clean with a testing the waters type admission. He reacted badly.
> 
> If he had been wounded by her admission, but also talked to her and accepted her flaws and all, made her feel understood instead of feeling judged things would have turned out very differently I believe.
> 
> Look Phoenix, we are clearly not going to agree. So let's just leave it at that?


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

One of the reasons I created this thread was to get a truthful and right perspective from different and neutral sources. I have learnt a lot about my issues that I could not have understood all by myself. I am actively working to get to the root of the issues and eliminate them. And I am utilizing all the resources that I have at my disposal.



manfromlamancha said:


> I think at the time of marriage, BOTH parties knew that things were not quite right (not just the OP) and both decided to try and make a go of things, knowing things were not quite right.
> 
> OP has to only apologise for his angry outbursts and for his mental abuse of his wife. Wife has to apologise for lying and deceiving him at the start.
> 
> ...


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Good for you Good104 ! Go and make it happen and have a great life. By the way, I didn't learn to take deep breaths and control my anger and emotions (most of which was misplaced) until later in life - so you're off to a good start.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

manfromlamancha said:


> I think at the time of marriage, BOTH parties knew that things were not quite right (not just the OP) and both decided to try and make a go of things, knowing things were not quite right.
> 
> OP has to only apologise for his angry outbursts and for his mental abuse of his wife. Wife has to apologise for lying and deceiving him at the start.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead: Are we reading the same posts? She volunteered the truth early in the relationship. He subsequently found out more, again before marriage, that upset him very much. That was yrs before marriage. If she lied to get married then her timing was way off or he has a bad memory. 

Her past did not alter before marriage, he presented himself as a man who got over his problems with her past. He changed after marriage into an abuser. So who deceived who? 

He had another 5 yrs to D before the ties that a child would bring. He had a child after all of that time. If she meant to trap him, her timing was off yet again or he wanted to stay and torture her. 

This man was not deceived into marriage. He has no qualms abut premarital sex or her past. He had sex before marriage and he married a woman with a past. It's a justification for his abuse. We all know there is never a reason to abuse, never. 

He is here because he lost his wife and family and he probably thinks someone here will give him a method to get her back. We all know he will need intensive work on his abusive nature. She is better off getting a D. If she deceived him into marriage she should be honest now and D him.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

phoenix_ said:


> We definitely won't agree, but it's because of your obvious bias against him. You've made every excuse for her behavior and bashed him for every mistake he made. You should try being objective in your posts.


Interesting. Do you have to right at all costs? Does it always have to be I'm right and you're wrong?

You see I offered a truce. I offered the opportunity to agree to disagree, that we came to this issue from divergent and opposite ends of the spectrum. I made many mentions of NOT giving his wife a free pass for lying. Not once did I see you give any sort of similar concession regarding the OP being an abusive bully.

We kept going around the same circle, never ending.

He abuses because she lies. She lies because he abuses.

But I'm the one who is biased.

Newflash: it's not a bias and it's not me. It's you who can see past your own POV.

I'm really sick of some of the men who come here and refuse to entertain they MIGHT not be perfectly right and anyone who doesn't agree that they are perfectly right is obviously biased.

Whatever it takes for you to keep your head in your little tiny world and see things the same way you've always seen them, because god forbid you actually look outside your little world and the way things have always been.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

One thing is clear. The men who want to validate abusive bullish behavior have stuck around to argue the point. The men who won't validate abusive behavior have said their peace and left the thread.

Meanwhile it's the women who stick around to try to open the eyes of the abusers.

Feel like we're wasting our time? What say you Catherine, EleGirl and JLD? Are we wasting our time with block heads?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)




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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> :scratchhead: Are we reading the same posts? She volunteered the truth early in the relationship. He subsequently found out more, again before marriage, that upset him very much. That was yrs before marriage. If she lied to get married then her timing was way off or he has a bad memory.
> 
> Her past did not alter before marriage, he presented himself as a man who got over his problems with her past. He changed after marriage into an abuser. So who deceived who?
> 
> ...


I think you may be jumping to conclusions. 
OP, did her lies stop before you got married or did she continue?

12 years is a long time to be angry about the same thing. Over time I think that he would get over her past relationships unless there's something that keeps triggering his memory.

The OP is definitely making big mistakes but he's being pretty critical of himself so I don't think he's trying to justify what he's doing, but there's always reasons for behaviour. 

And he did not intentionally deceive his wife, his personality changed which happens to many people. OP, you need to be more clear about what current issues are going on.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Interesting. Do you have to right at all costs? Does it always have to be I'm right and you're wrong?
> 
> You see I offered a truce. I offered the opportunity to agree to disagree, that we came to this issue from divergent and opposite ends of the spectrum. I made many mentions of NOT giving his wife a free pass for lying. Not once did I see you give any sort of similar concession regarding the OP being an abusive bully.
> 
> ...


The difference is I wasn't arguing about opinion, I was arguing about fact. He said he was not abusive in the early stages when she started to unveil her lies, yet you claimed she lied because of fear without any basis for it. And then you started to enforce your own cultural values on him and putting him down for not following your way of life. I'm not even arguing which way is better but that you are being very hypocritical with your views.

And I never once condoned his behaviour, I just pointed out that she is at fault too because everybody was unfairly justifying her lying. Also, everybody was already jumping on the OP so I didn't see the need to drill more into his issues at the time.

And I'm not surprised that you're turning this argument into a battle between sexes, your opinion has been pretty sexiest throughout the thread.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

OP-

I do hope you find a way to deal with your anger. Sometimes expressing the anger makes you more and more angry.

It is not a positive way to deal with others.

There are a couple of ways to deal with it in a positive way.

You can exercise by purching a punching bag at the gym.

Getting angry at my wife for her cheating is not helpful at all. 

If you can't control the anger, you lose. If this is the case, use the 180 to create distance from your wife or STBXW. But you do need to be positive for your children.

It has taken me years to keep working on this. We finished our 40th anniversary recently. I have been dealing with the anger for over 3 years now, getting close to 4. 

But we have kids and grandkids. My actions good or bad have consequences on not only my marriage, but also on the kids and the grandkids. They are innocent in all this. 

I am just waiting until I retire in about 5 years. If I can't take it, I give her at least half of everything. She would get over half a million (her share), but at least she would not get it all.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Before we got married, DW promised never to lie. But that never happened and she continued telling lies about big and small issues. And yes, sometimes, her lies do trigger some ugly memories. This contributed in changing my personality for worst.




phoenix_ said:


> I think you may be jumping to conclusions.
> OP, did her lies stop before you got married or did she continue?
> 
> 12 years is a long time to be angry about the same thing. Over time I think that he would get over her past relationships unless there's something that keeps triggering his memory.
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

phoenix_ said:


> And I'm not surprised that you're turning this argument into a battle between sexes, your opinion has been pretty sexiest throughout the thread.


Pot....kettle!

You wouldn't know sexist if it introduced itself to you.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Telling an abuser that their abuse is justified in any way is wrong. It doesn't matter what the 'victim' did, the abuser had the option to walk away. There is no excuse, there is no reason good enough to justify it to oneself.

The abuser will always try and blame the victim for 'making them like that', 'they were never like that before the this' etc. They had a choice to be an abuser, or to walk away from the situation. The choice was theirs alone.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

good104 said:


> Before we got married, DW promised never to lie. But that never happened and she continued telling lies about big and small issues. And yes, sometimes, her lies do trigger some ugly memories. This contributed in changing my personality for worst.


For every excuse you give yourself, ask a few questions. 
* When you where a child, how would you have felt if your parents had poor impulse control and made excuses for losing it? 
* Parents that brought you into a family with a father who treated your mother badly for her transgressions? 
* A household where there is fear and tension? 
* Ask yourself if you would admire a man who created so much chaos that you were spirited from the comfort and familiarity your home by a mother that felt threatened by said father. 

No your wife does not make you do anything. Her lies don't make you abuse. A man with self-respect would not use fear to solve a problem. A man who is a leader of his family protects them from harm. He does not create it. He does everything he can to create a safe harbor for his family. 

You will not get your family back in your present state. Take control of your life and yourself and make it different permanently. Use this as a wake up call. You should have no shame - you are where many decent people have been. Some of them have posted. Heed them. You took a wrong turn and you can't get the momentum to get back to a good place. 

This person is not who you really are. I'm betting that there is a nascent better person inside of you. You would not be here if it were nit true. Let him out to grow and cast away the out of control child. It's that easy.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Your points are very valid. And, I am working on bringing the better person out.

Thank you. Great post.




Catherine602 said:


> For every excuse you give yourself, ask a few questions.
> * When you where a child, how would you have felt if your parents had poor impulse control and made excuses for losing it?
> * Parents that brought you into a family with a father who treated your mother badly for her transgressions?
> * A household where there is fear and tension?
> ...


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

good104 said:


> Before we got married, DW promised never to lie. But that never happened and she continued telling lies about big and small issues. And yes, sometimes, her lies do trigger some ugly memories. This contributed in changing my personality for worst.


Accept the notion that you are married to a pathological liar.

Can you change that aspect of her? Absolutely not. All you can control is how you react to her lies, and whether or not you will tolerate a relationship with this type of person.

It is_ on you _that you married this type of person. It is_ on you_ that you stayed married to this type of person.

Blaming one's behavior on the behavior of someone else is immature and demonstrates a complete lack of integrity.

Good, I married a pathological liar. A serial cheater. A 'broken' woman. I can relate to your situation, because when she would lie to my face about who she had fvcked, or where she had been all night, I would blow up in anger. Some people would say I was justified, but they are wrong.

The proper course of action would have been to leave the relationship when I knew that she was not the type of person that I had thought she was, and that she had no ambition to change.

Accept responsibility for the mistakes you have made. Vow not to repeat them.

Decide what you will and will not tolerate in a relationship. If your partner continues to cross your boundaries, then it is time to end the relationship.

You might find these agreements something to strive for:

The Four Agreements are:

1. Be Impeccable with your Word: Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the Word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your Word in the direction of truth and love.

2. Don’t Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.

3. Don’t Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.

-don Miguel


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Can you describe what you mean byabuse OP? What do you do specifically when you get angry?


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Pot....kettle!
> 
> You wouldn't know sexist if it introduced itself to you.


I find your posts offensive. Please take your personal debate to PMs.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

good104 said:


> Your points are very valid. And, I am working on bringing the better person out.
> 
> Thank you. Great post.


I know, it's obvious. But don't be paralyzed by guilt and shame. Atone and get past it.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Oo man, do I really have to write what I do again? Could you please refer to my original post. Right now, I feel too ashamed and too embarrassed to write how I behave with my wife when I get angry. 




phoenix_ said:


> Can you describe what you mean byabuse OP? What do you do specifically when you get angry?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

good104 said:


> Oo man, do I really have to write what I do again? Could you please refer to my original post. Right now, I feel too ashamed and too embarrassed to write how I behave with my wife when I get angry.


That's OK. Feeling that way means you are getting back to yourself. That's what a good person feels when they make a misstep. Only evil people feel nothing. Your feelings are a result of seeing life from the point of view of the people you hurt. That's empathy a very high level emotion. Now you can use those feelings as tool for recovery.

You don't need to become a [email protected] Just a strong and just man with good values and boundaries. If you find that you cannot deal with your wife's problems after giving it all you have then leave in an orderly manner.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for this post.
An extremely frustrating issue in our culture, ending a relationship is not really easy. There is a very negative stigma attached with divorce. Both for men and women. I am not at all suggesting that DW or I are thinking about getting divorce at this point. But, just saying that this sort of thwarting and fear of social rejection also contribute indirectly to some extreme conduct as you try to 'fix' the marital problems by any means. Even by abuse. (not a factor in my case)




ThreeStrikes said:


> Accept the notion that you are married to a pathological liar.
> 
> Can you change that aspect of her? Absolutely not. All you can control is how you react to her lies, and whether or not you will tolerate a relationship with this type of person.
> 
> ...


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

You should re-read our posts.

-My issue is her lies. HER LIES. And not her past. Her past was not my issue, it was my tool to abuse her. I know it was wrong, but that's what it was. Do you get it? If she told me honestly before I invested myself emotionally in her, I would't have become an abuser. May be I would not have stayed with her, or may be I would have. As her honesty then would have given me enough material to make an informed decision.

-Read my wife's post again. After she told me about the first love of her life (even though she told me about it when we were already deeply involved with each other which itself is kind of deceptive), I was hurt, but was quite and fairly understanding. It was confusing also as DW was heads over heels for me. DW also told me there was nobody else. (Her only 'fear' then was that she would lose me if she told me the truth. I used to be a happy and calm guy then. And she did not see any anger issues in me. As there were none. I still respected and loved DW.) My anger came much later when I heard about her other affair from a co-worker. And then found out about another and then another. It was really embarrassing. Half the people at work knew about her. She lied to me to be with me. She put her interest ahead of honesty. 

- Again, read what DW wrote in her post, she did not have affairs because she enjoyed sex. She went on a self disruptive path after being rejected by the first guy. She had affairs because she needed to know why she got rejected. She just chose wrong people every time and got rejected again and again. Remember, she had some insecurity and self-esteem issues. 

-DW acknowledges that she has a habit of lying.

-I never said I am not responsible for my abusive behavior. In fact, the thread's title suggest that I acknowledge my wrong and abusive behavior 

-One last time, her habit of telling lies is my issue, not her past, not her present, not her anything else!

I did not create this thread to defend myself. I am okay with people bashing me. Because for a lot of reasons I deserve it. And because I am really interested in seeing the picture from all valid viewpoints. But I will not take insults if it is based upon assumptions. Your entire post is based upon wrong assumptions. 




Personal said:


> I have just reread again, all of your wife's posts and your posts as well good104. No matter which way I look at it I feel like I need a wash afterwards.
> 
> It is extraordinarily clear that your wife has lied to you repeatedly through fear of your reaction. According to both of you, you abuse her terribly (you are an abuser/you are domestically violent), and have done so throughout your relationship together. She lies to limit the terror she faces from you.
> 
> ...


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Good,

I think your thread is causing some readers to trigger, and they project that back at you. It's a common phenomenon here, so don't take it personally.

The best thing I've seen in you is your willingness to own your POS (piece if sh!t) tendencies. Your anger issues. Your verbal abuse.

Owning your POS tendencies is the first step towards growth. Your next step should be IC, where you can explore the root of these issues, and work on overcoming them.

Your wife's issues are all on her. You can't change her. As someone said earlier, her lying could very well be due to some personality disorder like BPD. Who knows? We can only read what has been posted here.

Keep working on you. And remember this:

When a man habitually reacts in anger to his wife/partner, it is a death sentence for the relationship.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

good104 said:


> You should re-read our posts.
> 
> -My issue is her lies. HER LIES. And not her past. Her past was not my issue, it was my tool to abuse her. I know it was wrong, but that's what it was. Do you get it? If she told me honestly before I invested myself emotionally in her, I would't have become an abuser. May be I would not have stayed with her, or may be I would have. As her honesty then would have given me enough material to make an informed decision.
> 
> ...


Ignore what they're saying, they're just trying to force their cultural ideals on you without looking at the situation objectively.

Anyway, your wife is a liar and you are abusing her. Both things are bad and need to be addressed. Both of these posters are trying to justify all of your wife's lies as a a response to you and they're trying to say that you turned her into that. They claim that you had a choice of leaving her once you found out she was a liar but she equally had the chance to leave you when she found out you're abusive. That logic has to go both ways but there's a lot of sexism here. You'll see many threads where women outright say that they abuse their husbands but nobody will point the finger at them.

Anyway, I think the only thing you can really do is a get a good councillor for the both of you, neither of you are really equipped to deal with your problems otherwise you wouldn't be in this situation. The bitter people on this forum won't be of much help, get professional help if you truly want to change.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

You are absolutely right. I can't cease being an abuser until I stop blaming DW for my irrational, abusive behavior. I am not going to let myself get angry as a reaction to anything. I would think a hundred times before I even ask her a question where she feels an urge to lie or feels embarrassed. I think that much I can do. I used to be a person who would not be affected by his surrounding and what people are saying. I am trying to bring that personality back in me.




ThreeStrikes said:


> Good,
> 
> I think your thread is causing some readers to trigger, and they project that back at you. It's a common phenomenon here, so don't take it personally.
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> Ignore what they're saying, they're just trying to force their cultural ideals on you without looking at the situation objectively.
> 
> Anyway, your wife is a liar and you are abusing her. Both things are bad and need to be addressed. Both of these posters are trying to justify all of your wife's lies as a a response to you and they're trying to say that you turned her into that. They claim that you had a choice of leaving her once you found out she was a liar but she equally had the chance to leave you when she found out you're abusive. That logic has to go both ways but there's a lot of sexism here. You'll see many threads where women outright say that they abuse their husbands but nobody will point the finger at them.
> 
> Anyway, I think the only thing you can really do is a get a good councillor for the both of you, neither of you are really equipped to deal with your problems otherwise you wouldn't be in this situation. The bitter people on this forum won't be of much help, get professional help if you truly want to change.


You are defaulting back to making excuses. Your wife's lying is her problem and its effect on the relationship is a big problem. She may never stop lying, will you ever stop abusing? Although you say you take full responsibility you really don't. You are quick to agree with posts that support excuses as if the issues were gender bias, gender battles and culture etc. 

Who cares what gender says what? Your culture supports uncontrolled anger and abuse? I am sure it does not. It does not support lying either but that is not your business to punish your wife for her transgressions. Help her like you love her. 

You and your family are on the line. You need to ask yourself, is the issue of gender clouding your ability to see your problems? Your wife will always be a woman and she may also always lie. If your wife is the torn goading you to abuse, pluck it out and stay separated. Be a good father and limit contact with the torn.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Catherine602, this is not my post. I have replied to an earlier post already acknowledging that my anger is my issue. And only I am responsible for my reaction. 




Catherine602 said:


> You are defaulting back to making excuses. Your wife's lying is her problem and its effect on the relationship is a big problem. She may never stop lying, will you ever stop abusing? Although you say you take full responsibility you really don't. You are quick to agree with posts that support excuses as if the issues were gender bias, gender battles and culture etc.
> 
> Who cares what gender says what? Your culture supports uncontrolled anger and abuse? I am sure it does not. It does not support lying either but that is not your business to punish your wife for her transgressions. Help her like you love her.
> 
> You and your family are on the line. You need to ask yourself, is the issue of gender clouding your ability to see your problems? Your wife will always be a woman and she may also always lie. If your wife is the torn goading you to abuse, pluck it out and stay separated. Be a good father and limit contact with the torn.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Good I saw that you liked the post. I just think it is way off. I have seen post where a wife abuses the husband. It is more common than we think but that another subject. All of the responses are uniform to what you are getting. There is a strong feeling of sympathy for the victim of abuse. It's human nature to want to help the person who cannot defend themselves. You have the same instincts too.

I still stand by my statement that no matter how you vacillate, you will come out a better person and non-abuser. You have been wounded badly by your wife's lies. You reaction is maladaptive, but any partner would have a strong negative reaction to deception. But, You didn't stop posting and you have taken some heat. That shows something of what you are made of. It may help to move forward.

Can you tell what you are doing to get help and what your plans are? How is your family and how are you dealing with the separations and negotiations with your wife? Does she read this thread?

I wish she would start a thread asking for help with her lying. Maybe it will help.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Good I saw that you liked the post. I just think it is way off. I have seen post where a wife abuses the husband. It is more common than we think but that another subject. All of the responses are uniform to what you are getting. There is a strong feeling of sympathy for the victim of abuse. It's human nature to want to help the person who cannot defend themselves. You have the sam instincts.
> 
> I still stand by my statement that no matter how you vacillate, you will come out a better person and non-abuser. You have been wounded badly by your wife's lies. You reaction is maladaptive, but there is hope. You didn't stop posting and you have taken some heat. That shows something of what you are made of. It may help to move forward.
> 
> ...


What did you think was off about it?


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for having some faith in me 
DW and our son is staying with a family friend, and are fine. We are not talking just to give each other some space and time to heal. We are communicating via email. But not much. I don't like to involve my parents in our issues. But about this issue, I have openly discussed with them. DW is quite gracious and has always respected my parents like her own. And so my parents have strong feelings about her and are also missing DW very much. They are VERY upset at me. Another reason, I am feeling really bad about my behavior that drove DW away is seeing how badly it has affected my parents and siblings. After marriage and moving in with me, DW formed very friendly and cordial relationship with my extended family members. Believe me, the heat I am taking at this forum is nothing compare to what people at home are putting me through. Nobody wants to see me the way I have become. Nobody. And everyone agrees that it is for our own good that we stay separate for a while and work on our issues. Both DW and I are seeking professional counseling. This thread has also helped me in understanding neutral viewpoint and has been a source for some great advise. 

DW does not know about this thread yet as we are not communicating much. However, I will tell her about it whenever it is appropriate. I also hope that she creates a thread to get help about telling lies. Not that it matters much to me now. I am not letting her one little habit/weakness control my emotions. 




Catherine602 said:


> Good I saw that you liked the post. I just think it is way off. I have seen post where a wife abuses the husband. It is more common than we think but that another subject. All of the responses are uniform to what you are getting. There is a strong feeling of sympathy for the victim of abuse. It's human nature to want to help the person who cannot defend themselves. You have the sam instincts.
> 
> I still stand by my statement that no matter how you vacillate, you will come out a better person and non-abuser. You have been wounded badly by your wife's lies. You reaction is maladaptive, but there is hope. You didn't stop posting and you have taken some heat. That shows something of what you are made of. It may help to move forward.
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

good104 said:


> You are absolutely right. I can't cease being an abuser until I stop blaming DW for my irrational, abusive behavior. I am not going to let myself get angry as a reaction to anything. I would think a hundred times before I even ask her a question where she feels an urge to lie or feels embarrassed. I think that much I can do. I used to be a person who would not be affected by his surrounding and what people are saying. I am trying to bring that personality back in me.


The way I look at this is that we humans are different from animals. Animals react to situations. They do not have the capability to analyze and control their emotions and actions.

We humans have two stages.. one if the initial emotional reaction. This is usually instant and out of our control. Be we an immediately get control of our thoughts and emotions. We can then analyze what lead to our emotional reaction and how we want to behave based on that . We can even change our present and future emotional actions/feelings.

In the above post you are doing the second stage of this. You are evaluating your current and past emotions/behaviors. And it sounds like you making a choice to react differently now and in the future.

No one can make your feel or do anything. Once you learn that you have complete control over this you will be in a healthy place.

I hope that you are truly growing in this manner. I really do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

phoenix_ said:


> I think you may be jumping to conclusions.
> OP, did her lies stop before you got married or did she continue?
> 
> 12 years is a long time to be angry about the same thing. Over time I think that he would get over her past relationships unless there's something that keeps triggering his memory.
> ...


When did her personality change? She had told him about her past longer before they married. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...41-please-help-past-shadows-our-marriage.html


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> Ignore what they're saying, they're just trying to force their cultural ideals on you without looking at the situation objectively.
> 
> Anyway, your wife is a liar and you are abusing her. Both things are bad and need to be addressed. Both of these posters are trying to justify all of your wife's lies as a a response to you and they're trying to say that you turned her into that. They claim that you had a choice of leaving her once you found out she was a liar but she equally had the chance to leave you when she found out you're abusive. That logic has to go both ways but there's a lot of sexism here. You'll see many threads where women outright say that they abuse their husbands but nobody will point the finger at them.
> 
> Anyway, I think the only thing you can really do is a get a good councillor for the both of you, neither of you are really equipped to deal with your problems otherwise you wouldn't be in this situation. The bitter people on this forum won't be of much help, get professional help if you truly want to change.


There's not really much stuff about leaving her. "Walk away" was meant as literally, walk away rather than stand there and hurl verbal abuse at someone. Calm down, get his head together, come back. The sexism stuff is rubbish. Haven't seen any abuser supported just because they are female. Nobody is trying to justify anything, that's your take on it, but if people are willing to say that her lies made him abuse, then it's entirely possible that his abuse made her lie. If you want to say one way is possible, you have to also consider that so is the other. It's also possible that she lied from a young age due to childhood abuse and it's a coping mechanism that she again turned to in her marriage, once her husband started abusing her. We are talking about a man that "bashed" his fiancé. Yes, she could've walked away then, and many would've, but I don't think we're talking about a woman who was raised to feel self worth, hence, when he told he bashed her because she wasn't a virgin, she would've believed she deserved it.

Can we please get off the 'sexist' talk, it's incredibly offensive. I have seen nothing but people telling someone who admits to abusing their spouse that there is no excuse. Trying to say they are only saying that because the abuser is male makes me sick to my stomach. SICK!


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> When did her personality change? She had told him about her past longer before they married.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...41-please-help-past-shadows-our-marriage.html


I didn't say her personality changed?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Good I don't want to give the impression that I think that you should not be negatively affected by your wife's deceptions. Any normal person would be and require the lies stop. Deception destroys love because it hides the real person. 

Everyone has the right to form a relationship with a person of compatible values. That right can not be taken away. My objections are narrow and focused on the way you handled your pain, not that you should not have pain. 

That might be why this is so hard to overcome. You need support to get over your wife's deception and to change your reaction. As you work on this, don't neglect healing your pain along with changes your response.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

breeze said:


> There's not really much stuff about leaving her. "Walk away" was meant as literally, walk away rather than stand there and hurl verbal abuse at someone. Calm down, get his head together, come back. The sexism stuff is rubbish. Haven't seen any abuser supported just because they are female. Nobody is trying to justify anything, that's your take on it, but if people are willing to say that her lies made him abuse, then it's entirely possible that his abuse made her lie. If you want to say one way is possible, you have to also consider that so is the other. It's also possible that she lied from a young age due to childhood abuse and it's a coping mechanism that she again turned to in her marriage, once her husband started abusing her. We are talking about a man that "bashed" his fiancé. Yes, she could've walked away then, and many would've, but I don't think we're talking about a woman who was raised to feel self worth, hence, when he told he bashed her because she wasn't a virgin, she would've believed she deserved it.
> 
> Can we please get off the 'sexist' talk, it's incredibly offensive. I have seen nothing but people telling someone who admits to abusing their spouse that there is no excuse. Trying to say they are only saying that because the abuser is male makes me sick to my stomach. SICK!


Well that's the trend I've noticed so I mentioned it. 

Also, if you go look at his wife's thread you won't see much hate for either one of them, but on this thread that he made it's been consistent crap at him only.


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## good104 (Nov 25, 2013)

You are right that everyone has a right to form a relationship with a person of compatible values. And that's why I wish DW told me about her previous lifestyle before we were vested in each other. Her honesty then was important. Because, after knowing who she really was, if I decided to continue the relationship, it would have been an informed and well thought out decision. It is so easy to live with an honest person, than with somebody you love but can not trust.




Catherine602 said:


> Good I don't want to give the impression that I think that you should not be negatively affected by your wife's deceptions. Any normal person would be and require the lies stop. Deception destroys love because it hides the real person.
> 
> Everyone has the right to form a relationship with a person of compatible values. That right can not be taken away. My objections are narrow and focused on the way you handled your pain, not that you should not have pain.
> 
> That might be why this is so hard to overcome. You need support to get over your wife's deception and to change your reaction. As you work on this, don't neglect healing your pain along with changes your response.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> Well that's the trend I've noticed so I mentioned it.
> 
> Also, if you go look at his wife's thread you won't see much hate for either one of them, but on this thread that he made it's been consistent crap at him only.


It's at HIM because HE is the OP. HE is the one who is ABUSING. That's one thing that so many people on here FAIL to realise. There is little point in answering the OP telling him that his wife has to change her ways. Please, tell me the point of that? Tell me how us telling him that she shouldn't lie is going to help in any way. 

You didn't see much stuff about him in her thread because SHE was the OP, and she didn't actually even mention any physical abuse as far as I could see, though I didn't read all the posts in it. Did she get on there and say, "I abuse my spouse because they weren't a virgin when we married and because they lie to me"? No, she said "my spouse cannot get over my past" and talked about how she was feeling. Two completely different perspectives and points yet you expect the same responses?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

breeze said:


> It's at HIM because HE is the OP. HE is the one who is ABUSING. That's one thing that so many people on here FAIL to realise. There is little point in answering the OP telling him that his wife has to change her ways. Please, tell me the point of that? Tell me how us telling him that she shouldn't lie is going to help in any way.
> 
> You didn't see much stuff about him in her thread because SHE was the OP, and she didn't actually even mention any physical abuse as far as I could see, though I didn't read all the posts in it. Did she get on there and say, "I abuse my spouse because they weren't a virgin when we married and because they lie to me"? No, she said "my spouse cannot get over my past" and talked about how she was feeling. Two completely different perspectives and points yet you expect the same responses?


Go check that thread again, she mentions the abuse in the OP.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

phoenix_ said:


> Go check that thread again, she mentions the abuse in the OP.


Please provide the quote in which you think she said that she has abused him.


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