# intrigued by wife's sexual history



## Balto109

I have been with my wife for 14 years, 10 married, and we were recently messing around with an adult "have you ever" game which opened up a lot of thoughts about some of her answers...mostly because we've had some discussions about some of these things maybe within our first year of dating. I recall her years ago telling me she's had a boring sex life and I was the 5th guy she's had sex with, one of whom she didn't want to count and was a regret. 

Recently during the Q game, she said 4 when asked. I mentioned I remembered the 5th and she got a little pissed and accused me of saying she was lying. I said I was sorry and must have remembered wrong, even though i remember as though it was yesterday. I also told her I didn't care if it was 30 guys, I was by no means judging her and said we're all sexual beings. Then more recently I was cleaning and dusted and moved some books on her night stand which she began to reorganize and in doing so, she dug out some other old books and found her journals from before we met. I jokingly asked if I could read them and she actually sat down and read them with me. A lot was talk about how she really wanted a boyfriend and guys don't look at her that way and that they only want "a good hookup". This is where it got very intriguing for me. 

She was an outdoor camp guide during college in the summer and there was mention about lots of drinking, go figure - college, and then there was detail interest in numerous guys. One summer she liked this one guy, she stopped at his cabin, they began kissing, and things got intense. She noted "i hooked up with C on Thursday, July 17 1998... and then it happened again and then there was mention about how he was so many of her firsts. There were a lot of details about how much she like like this guy and I asked about him and she said they only kissed. Then she goes back home for her sisters wedding and talks about seeing a guy from high school and she says she hooked up with him at the wedding and she "never went so far with anyone the first night" and they saw each other for a short period after and mentioned hooking up again. 

Then there was the college boyfriend who she described as awesome and she loved him but then she goes back to camp, meets a guy named S... he goes in her tent one night and she describes a nice sweet kiss but no more...then a couple nights later he goes to her tent, she describes snuggling and she noted he jokingly said "if she doesn't put out, he's leaving", she said she was in a tricky situation with having a boyfriend but she wanted this and they "hooked up", which was followed by some guilt but not so guilty feelings and then she was at a beach with these guys saw this guy flirting with someone and she "hooked up" with Z. The odd thing about all of these journal entries is there was never any mention of the guy she lost her virginity to and the big intriguing thing to me is what's a hook up? She said these were just mere kissing instances but to me, making out is kissing with maybe a little light touching and hooking up is a lot more - sex.

While playing that "have you ever" game, one of the questions was have you ever cheated on someone? She said no and she had it very documented in her journal. Another question was have you ever been to a strip club and she said no...she also had an entry where she went to one (female) with 4 guys and another girl. I get the impression she hasn't been as boring as she says and I like to be open about anything. Is she hiding something? Is she really that forgetful? I've heard stories about her sisters...one starting to hook up with guys at 14 and lots of them until she got married. Their mother catching another sister giving a guy a BJ on the sofa and she hooked up with almost the entire college soccer team. 

Is my wife not being honest with me? I've also asked without being too pushy and the response is usually brushed off or she says it's personal. I also think the ultimate feeling is the ambiguity of everything. Reading the journals with her was like watching a movie where the ending is so ambiguous you can't help but think WTF.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

If you and she have a good marriage, sex and good emotional connection, it may be best just to let this go.

Her memory and her journal may not match up, that's ok, who's memory is perfect in all things.

It sounds like you're trying to "catch her" in some discussions. Why?

Brother just let this go. Pretend you never got that game. 

You picking at this topic may create a rift you'd have never had if you didn't try to beat her over the head with new info.

Sorry for being blunt, it's meant kindly.

Don't look for problems where there aren't any


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## Marduk

Uh, you married her.

The time for sweating her past was long over by the time you entered into that legal contract.

Drop it.


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## SpinyNorman

Echo your 1st 2 replies. I don't dig into anyone's dating past. Some people do and I think most of them are unhappier for it.

I wouldn't especially want my dating history scrutinized by anybody. It's not that I did anything evil or despicable, but some stuff that was awkward or naive especially when I was young. Stuff I'm happy to leave in my past. So in the flavor of doing unto others, I leave my partners' dating past in their past.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Wow........

If the marriage is great, you are going to have to let it go. It is going to be hard, but don’t dig. Your wife was wrong to lie, but women do get shamed about their sex lives. 

I’m sorry though, reading the journals with you was dumb. Nope, I don’t care what anyone says about her open honesty now. She opened a can of worms with you and it was unnecessary.


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## leftfield

I think you guys are missing his concern. He is not really concerned with what happened in the past. 

His concern is; "can he trust his wife". He is getting conflicting reports which is causing a trust issue.

That is what I think he is expressing. Maybe the OP could clarify.


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## *Deidre*

Has she ever lied to you about other things, OP?


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## sokillme

The time for this was before you got married. You should be careful what you wish for. Besides what good is going to come out of it? 

Instead of trying to compete with memories she may or may not have how about you help her make some new ones that no one can compete with.


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## *Deidre*

I'm not sure if he's hung up on her past, he's wondering if/why she is lying about her past.


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## Middle of Everything

Agree with Marduk and Ragnar. If all else is good then I wouldnt pick at this scab. Nothing good will likely come of it.

Should she have been more forthcoming? I don't know. Maybe. But it doesnt sound like she was banging every dude she met and then presenting herself to you as completely to little experienced. 

Only thing I'll add is I LOATHE the term "hooking up" or "hooked up". A term for teenagers who aren't mature enough to be engaging in sexual relationships.


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## SpinyNorman

Middle of Everything said:


> Only thing I'll add is I LOATHE the term "hooking up" or "hooked up".


Why is this a bad term for casual sex? Is it inaccurate or offensive?


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## phillybeffandswiss

leftfield said:


> I think you guys are missing his concern. He is not really concerned with what happened in the past.
> 
> His concern is; "can he trust his wife". He is getting conflicting reports which is causing a trust issue.
> 
> That is what I think he is expressing. Maybe the OP could clarify.


No, I am going by his own words.

He is conflicted based on a game of “have you ever.” I am not questioning her integrity based on a game similar to Truth or Dare. 

Now, if they had serious discussions and she lied it is a different story.


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## Yeswecan

Marduk said:


> Uh, you married her.
> 
> The time for sweating her past was long over by the time you entered into that legal contract.
> 
> Drop it.


The W past as described to the OP over the past 14 years is no where remotely close to what her journal reads.


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## Yeswecan

*Deidre* said:


> I'm not sure if he's hung up on her past, he's wondering if/why she is lying about her past.


^^^for the win.


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## Yeswecan

Balto109 said:


> I have been with my wife for 14 years, 10 married, and we were recently messing around with an adult "have you ever" game which opened up a lot of thoughts about some of her answers...mostly because we've had some discussions about some of these things maybe within our first year of dating. I recall her years ago telling me she's had a boring sex life and I was the 5th guy she's had sex with, one of whom she didn't want to count and was a regret. Recently during the Q game, she said 4 when asked. I mentioned I remembered the 5th and she got a little pissed and accused me of saying she was lying. I said I was sorry and must have remembered wrong, even though i remember as though it was yesterday. I also told her I didn't care if it was 30 guys, I was by no means judging her and said we're all sexual beings. Then more recently I was cleaning and dusted and moved some books on her night stand which she began to reorganize and in doing so, she dug out some other old books and found her journals from before we met. I jokingly asked if I could read them and she actually sat down and read them with me. A lot was talk about how she really wanted a boyfriend and guys don't look at her that way and that they only want "a good hookup". This is where it got very intriguing for me. She was an outdoor camp guide during college in the summer and there was mention about lots of drinking, go figure - college, and then there was detail interest in numerous guys. One summer she liked this one guy, she stopped at his cabin, they began kissing, and things got intense. She noted "i hooked up with C on Thursday, July 17 1998... and then it happened again and then there was mention about how he was so many of her firsts. There were a lot of details about how much she like like this guy and I asked about him and she said they only kissed. Then she goes back home for her sisters wedding and talks about seeing a guy from high school and she says she hooked up with him at the wedding and she "never went so far with anyone the first night" and they saw each other for a short period after and mentioned hooking up again. Then there was the college boyfriend who she described as awesome and she loved him but then she goes back to camp, meets a guy named S... he goes in her tent one night and she describes a nice sweet kiss but no more...then a couple nights later he goes to her tent, she describes snuggling and she noted he jokingly said "if she doesn't put out, he's leaving", she said she was in a tricky situation with having a boyfriend but she wanted this and they "hooked up", which was followed by some guilt but not so guilty feelings and then she was at a beach with these guys saw this guy flirting with someone and she "hooked up" with Z. The odd thing about all of these journal entries is there was never any mention of the guy she lost her virginity to and the big intriguing thing to me is what's a hook up? She said these were just mere kissing instances but to me, making out is kissing with maybe a little light touching and hooking up is a lot more - sex. While playing that "have you ever" game, one of the questions was have you ever cheated on someone? She said no and she had it very documented in her journal. Another question was have you ever been to a strip club and she said no...she also had an entry where she went to one (female) with 4 guys and another girl. I get the impression she hasn't been as boring as she says and I like to be open about anything. Is she hiding something? Is she really that forgetful? I've heard stories about her sisters...one starting to hook up with guys at 14 and lots of them until she got married. Their mother catching another sister giving a guy a BJ on the sofa and she hooked up with almost the entire college soccer team. Is my wife not being honest with me? I've also asked without being too pushy and the response is usually brushed off or she says it's personal. I also think the ultimate feeling is the ambiguity of everything. Reading the journals with her was like watching a movie where the ending is so ambiguous you can't help but think WTF.


Your W is perhaps not being honest with herself.


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## Middle of Everything

SpinyNorman said:


> Why is this a bad term for casual sex? Is it inaccurate or offensive?


I don't know. Not offensive in any way. Could be inaccurate. People _may_ have to ask, does that mean actual sex?

Again maybe it's just me, but I would prefer saying had sex, or [email protected] Whatever. Just not a fan of it. More for being upfront and mature about it. But thinking about it, maybe you are right in a way. Maybe the casual manner in which some people use it does offend me in some way? I don't know. Something to think about I guess.


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## phillybeffandswiss

SpinyNorman said:


> Why is this a bad term for casual sex? Is it inaccurate or offensive?


Probably because it is open to interpretation.

Yes, I knew people who used it as PIV, oral, heavy petting and some who said it was kissing. Almost in equal numbers among my friends.

Edit:

MoE answered.


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## Married but Happy

I, too, say let it go. I certainly can't remember ALL the people I dated or had sex with in the year or so before I met my current wife. Maybe 4 to 6? Seriously, I can't recall, especially if I didn't date them for very long. I may have my notes from that time, so I could probably figure it out if I find them.


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## Diana7

Well she lied about having never cheated on anyone and she lied about never having been to a strip club and I doubt she would have forgotten those things, it wasn't that many years ago. So yes she has lied but what are you going to do about it? 
If it doesn't matter to you then leave it. It would matter to me but many don't seem to care about lies of that sort.


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## EleGirl

There is no way for us to know if your wife is not telling the whole truth or is she simply does not remember.

While what she says might not match your interpretation of her journals, the fact is that some people embellish even in their journals. There is no way of knowing what "hook-up" meant to her at the time she wrote the journals. There is no way to know if they are even true. They could be a young woman's wishful thinking that she had a wild love life.

And now years later, she really might not recall what happened.

Does your wife lie to you about other things? Or is this the one topic?


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## red oak

@Balto109 in an effort to get to know someone I ask about their past.
If I see they are lying, I usually look if it’s fear of judgment or?

Myself, when I run across contradictions I start digging in a non controversial way for 2 reasons. 
1. Where did I fail in making her secure enough to trust me. 

2. If I didn’t fail if I can’t trust her to be honest regarding her past, can I trust her to be honest in the present.


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## Marduk

EleGirl said:


> There is no way for us to know if your wife is not telling the whole truth or is she simply does not remember.
> 
> While what she says might not match your interpretation of her journals, the fact is that some people embellish even in their journals. There is no way of knowing what "hook-up" meant to her at the time she wrote the journals. There is no way to know if they are even true. They could be a young woman's wishful thinking that she had a wild love life.
> 
> And now years later, she really might not recall what happened.
> 
> Does your wife lie to you about other things? Or is this the one topic?


Very good point.

If I had kept a journal while dating, I'm sure the reality of it would look quite different than what I tried to walk my wife through when we were getting serious.

And there was a whole 18-24 months in university I mostly just don't remember at all. Memory is a strange thing. We're not digital recorders.


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## manfromlamancha

Unlike the others, I really do believe that you are not trying to "catch her out" or be judgemental in any way. I would be confused too. I would be more concerned about her real character - forgetful, deceitful, naive - what? I understand why you are trying to get a fix on what her version of being honest is.

I went through something similar with a compulsive liar who had anxiety issues about telling certain truths (for no real reason outwardly - all in her head). 

Is she saying that when she says hook up she means no sex? Also, her lying about going to a strip club, again she may have some hangups about telling the truth here too. 

I guess you may need to get an understanding of what makes her anxious about these things rather than catch her lying (I know that is not your intention). Find out what she thinks people might think if she had gone to a strip club etc.

Not much else you can do, if all else is fine - although I suspect that all else is not as fine as people here believe.


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## SpinyNorman

Middle of Everything said:


> I don't know. Not offensive in any way. Could be inaccurate. People _may_ have to ask, does that mean actual sex?
> 
> Again maybe it's just me, but I would prefer saying had sex, or [email protected] Whatever. Just not a fan of it. More for being upfront and mature about it. But thinking about it, maybe you are right in a way. Maybe the casual manner in which some people use it does offend me in some way? I don't know. Something to think about I guess.


thanks for answering, I wasn't sure if there was an aspect of it I wasn't aware of.



phillybeffandswiss said:


> Probably because it is open to interpretation.
> 
> Yes, I knew people who used it as PIV, oral, heavy petting and some who said it was kissing. Almost in equal numbers among my friends.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> MoE answered.


It is imprecise, and I have heard things like "I forgot to bring coffee, but Steve hooked me up."

Even "intercourse" technically means any type of exchange or interaction, though it is rarely used for anything but sexual intercourse.


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## Casual Observer

Does the fact that she invited him to read the diaries with her make a difference? It wouldn't seem likely she'd knowingly walk into a minefield. This is strange stuff, hitting a bit close to home. But she really didn't expect it to show anything at odds with what she remembers.

If there was one thing *I* would focus on, it would be the cheating issue. That goes to character. The other stuff, big deal, kids having fun, whatever. But cheating is something else again. She may be open to discussing just that one thing, if everything else is left off the table. As it probably should be.


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## ConanHub

Not even reading this whole thread.

I am concerned with my wife's sexual present and future because that is my responsibility to large extent.

She isn't with anyone else but me so fing her brains out is my sole responsibility and I take it seriously.

Unless you want to convince her to **** her previous partners while with her, you should probably focus on navigating her body and mind to satisfy your list and hers to mutual satisfaction.

Is this a real thing? I keep reading about it but just don't get it.

I met my wife over 28 years ago and started fing her brains out within hours of meeting and I haven't let up much since!

Do you think I gave a **** about her past partners???!!??

The first week, she was wrapped around my unit about 30+ times and making animal noises and through most of it.

My advice is to take your ****ing mate! Take her ****ing often and well!

Quit looking at her past and build that lady a future!


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## Balto109

My concern really has to do with being truthful. I think she likely forgot what she had written in her journal and I think it's also insulting to say a hookup as she described was just a little kissing. I think she would have likely written that she made out or kissed. My big concern is the fact she cheated on some guy she has told me was the one of those that got away, as she had moved to another state after college and he had to finish. She spoke highly of the guy and it's troubling to have read where she "hooked up" with someone else and she mentioned kissing before hookup, so hookup was more than that. She also followed by how she saw her BF the next week and she was going to tell him but didn't want to ruin anything and they continued to "hook up". The strip club thing is no big deal...I think she did it and maybe was ashamed she went but I don't think it's something that would be forgotten. The number of guys going from 5 to 4, who cares...I would imagine with the hook ups that there are more.


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## Lila

Balto109 said:


> My concern really has to do with being truthful. I think she likely forgot what she had written in her journal and I think it's also insulting to say a hookup as she described was just a little kissing. I think she would have likely written that she made out or kissed. My big concern is the fact she cheated on some guy she has told me was the one of those that got away, as she had moved to another state after college and he had to finish. She spoke highly of the guy and it's troubling to have read where she "hooked up" with someone else and she mentioned kissing before hookup, so hookup was more than that. She also followed by how she saw her BF the next week and she was going to tell him but didn't want to ruin anything and they continued to "hook up". The strip club thing is no big deal...I think she did it and maybe was ashamed she went but I don't think it's something that would be forgotten. The number of guys going from 5 to 4, who cares...I would imagine with the hook ups that there are more.


Here's the thing. If she's never indicated that she's cheated on you or treated you poorly in your marriage, then you are making a big deal out of nothing. Who gives a **** whether she kissed Bobby or blew Danny at camp. Seriously. This was a time before you, when she was a teenager/young adult. 

By your account, you have a great marriage. Leave the inconsequential stuff from the past in the past. It has no bearing on the happiness you and she share today. All it can do is cause misery. 

I recommend you either see a counselor for individual counseling to work through your issues or go through the exercise of contacting a divorce attorney and walk through the emotional and financial cost of a divorce. One of those two things will help you stop obsessing over this.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Balto109 said:


> My concern really has to do with being truthful. I think she likely forgot what she had written in her journal and I think it's also insulting to say a hookup as she described was just a little kissing. I think she would have likely written that she made out or kissed. My big concern is the fact she cheated on some guy she has told me was the one of those that got away, as she had moved to another state after college and he had to finish. She spoke highly of the guy and it's troubling to have read where she "hooked up" with someone else and she mentioned kissing before hookup, so hookup was more than that. She also followed by how she saw her BF the next week and she was going to tell him but didn't want to ruin anything and they continued to "hook up". The strip club thing is no big deal...I think she did it and maybe was ashamed she went but I don't think it's something that would be forgotten. The number of guys going from 5 to 4, who cares...I would imagine with the hook ups that there are more.


This is kind of funny. You care, don’t say it doesn’t matter. Insulting? Imagine how your wife feels. She let you in and now you are obsessing because you know the proper way to write in a journal.

The 5 to 4 matters because you started your OP with it. 
You are now a professional writer and editor. 
You are now saying how someone should write in their journal. 
You are arguing syntax, sentence structure and phrasing. 

This is you trying to create problems in a marriage that do not exist. I do not write the same as I did 14 years ago. I have posts on other websites and I realize how poorly some are written. At the time I thought “how the hell did you get that from my post.” Now, it’s like “ooohhhh I understand why you took it that way.”

You are going to parse and nitpick yourself out of a marriage. The fact she said “personal” AFTER sitting down WITH YOU to read her PERSONAL JOURNALS, should be a huge hint she isn’t going to tolerate your pressure.

Also, don’t be silly and focus on a teenager cheating before you met her. Unless she cheated on you and this proves to you she has always been a cheater, it isn’t related to your marriage.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Really, man, let it go.

Who can remember every juke joint or even strip club they ever went to. I get it, not all have had these super active times, but for anything, who has a perfect memory?

During college years? I can't remember huge chunks of time there, but it was a by design big party.

Graduated with honors though. Woo hoo.


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## Blondilocks

Personally, I wouldn't consider a Chippendale revue type of shindig as a strip club. One is a cheesy act and the other is up close and personal. I've been to the former and to a bar with a stripper on a pole.

Your wife was in college and still learning how to be a responsible adult. Heck, her brain hadn't even finished developing.

Judge her on her behavior since she has been with you. That is all that matters. Do you have journals that she can peruse and nail your feet to the floor over?


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## red oak

Are you thinking she has cheated on you, or you can’t trust her?

Seems to be a concern for you she didn’t come clean to guy she was seeing at the time, one who got away, that she hooked up with 2 while seeing him.


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## red oak

Balto109 said:


> I have been with my wife for 14 years, 10 married, and we were recently messing around with an adult "have you ever" game which opened up a lot of thoughts about some of her answers...mostly because we've had some discussions about some of these things maybe within our first year of dating. I recall her years ago telling me she's had a boring sex life and I was the 5th guy she's had sex with, one of whom she didn't want to count and was a regret.
> 
> Recently during the Q game, she said 4 when asked. I mentioned I remembered the 5th and *she got a little pissed and accused me of saying she was lying. I said I was sorry and must have remembered wrong*, even though i remember as though it was yesterday. I also told her I didn't care if it was 30 guys, I was by no means judging her and said we're all sexual beings. Then more recently I was cleaning and dusted and moved some books on her night stand which she began to reorganize and in doing so, she dug out some other old books and found her journals from before we met. I jokingly asked if I could read them and she actually sat down and read them with me. A lot was talk about how she really wanted a boyfriend and guys don't look at her that way and that they only want "a good hookup". This is where it got very intriguing for me.
> 
> She was an outdoor camp guide during college in the summer and there was mention about lots of drinking, go figure - college, and then there was detail interest in numerous guys. One summer she liked this one guy, she stopped at his cabin, they began kissing, and things got intense. She noted "i hooked up with C on Thursday, July 17 1998... and then it happened again and then there was mention about how he was so many of her firsts. There were a lot of details about how much she like like this guy and I asked about him and she said they only kissed. Then she goes back home for her sisters wedding and talks about seeing a guy from high school and she says she hooked up with him at the wedding and she "never went so far with anyone the first night" and they saw each other for a short period after and mentioned hooking up again.
> 
> Then there was the college boyfriend who she described as awesome and she loved him but then she goes back to camp, meets a guy named S... he goes in her tent one night and she describes a nice sweet kiss but no more...then a couple nights later he goes to her tent, she describes snuggling and she noted he jokingly said "if she doesn't put out, he's leaving", she said she was in a tricky situation with having a boyfriend but she wanted this and they "hooked up", which was followed by some guilt but not so guilty feelings and then she was at a beach with these guys saw this guy flirting with someone and she "hooked up" with Z. The odd thing about all of these journal entries is there was never any mention of the guy she lost her virginity to and the big intriguing thing to me is what's a hook up? She said these were just mere kissing instances but to me, making out is kissing with maybe a little light touching and hooking up is a lot more - sex.
> 
> While playing that "have you ever" game, one of the questions was have you ever cheated on someone? She said no and she had it very documented in her journal. Another question was have you ever been to a strip club and she said no...she also had an entry where she went to one (female) with 4 guys and another girl. I get the impression she hasn't been as boring as she says and I like to be open about anything. Is she hiding something? Is she really that forgetful? I've heard stories about her sisters...one starting to hook up with guys at 14 and lots of them until she got married. Their mother catching another sister giving a guy a BJ on the sofa and she hooked up with almost the entire college soccer team.
> 
> Is my wife not being honest with me? I've also asked without being too pushy and the response is usually brushed off or she says it's personal. I also think the ultimate feeling is the ambiguity of everything. Reading the journals with her was like watching a movie where the ending is so ambiguous you can't help but think WTF.


Confusion in your posts has me read again. 
All else aside the gaslighting would set my alarms off. 
Is that something common or was it a one off?

There was one person I had to deal with, while helping another, that I always had a recorder handy or would write conversations down to keep it accurate as they had the one I was helping questioning their own sanity. 
One of the problems when immersed in gaslighting it eventually wears down one its applied to, as in case of person I was helping, had a difficult time remembering their own accurate accounting of interactions with the gaslighter. However that individual was under constant attack from multiple sides so not a usual case. 

If it was a one off no big deal. If it’s something deal with often start keeping written notes of conversations if only for ones own peace of mind.

ETA: In a busy hectic life people can sometimes forget things day to day so an occasional disagreement on small portion of conversation, or event is no big deal. 
The concern is frequency, or if it is employed in disagreements to gain an upper hand, redirect conversation, or maintain control.


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## FastNFurious

Retroactive Jealousy can be really ugly. Knowing details of previous hook-ups can really mess with our heads. However, what she did 15 years ago shouldn't matter today. I'm sure she lied to you about her previous encounters and who blames her? Women want men to think they are wholesome and when we know details of what they've actually done before us it taints that image. Nothing good will come from this trust me. Just gotta let it go. It's hard believe me I've been there but you can't change it and it's not worth ruining something great.


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## Casual Observer

FastNFurious said:


> Retroactive Jealousy can be really ugly. Knowing details of previous hook-ups can really mess with our heads. However, what she did 15 years ago shouldn't matter today. I'm sure she lied to you about her previous encounters and who blames her? Women want men to think they are wholesome and when we know details of what they've actually done before us it taints that image. Nothing good will come from this trust me. Just gotta let it go. It's hard believe me I've been there but you can't change it and it's not worth ruining something great.


In general, I would agree with you. But things that go to character are a bit different. Why should it be so difficult to say "yes, I was a different person then and I cheated on a boyfriend? That could never happen now." 

Rereading the diary, which was HER choice, offers her the chance to look back and see how she's grown since then. That's a very positive conversation. It's not a spin. It's a very real and productive way of looking at things. I think it says something about a person that they seize that opportunity, or not.


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## Tdbo

Unless you have valid reason to question her fidelity or something over the top egregious or deal breaking occurred, such as her renting out her services by the hour, let it drop.
Everyone has a past, including you.
Judging from what you mentioned, none of what she did is worth the turmoil caused by hashing and rehashing things.


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## 2ntnuf

I think women only want their husband to respect them. They don't mind if a short-term fling with a faulty memory respects them. They will gaslight and who will deny their tears? 

It's obvious most men cannot handle the truth when it comes to their wife's sex life before them. I believe this is inherent. Cavemen could not afford to raise a child that was not their own. My thinking is this is the reason women think all men want a virgin. Maybe, somewhere way back in their primitive brain, they do? It doesn't change the fact that a woman has her own feelings and desires. 

What is important is to recognize any woman and any man, can be unfaithful. Some have a great wall built against infidelity, but that can be torn down within the right circumstances. Those are a little different for everyone. 

I agree with @red oak. Use a recording device for your sanity, but not to shove in her face that she has lied. If you find out she is consistently gaslighting, because I believe women protect themselves and their interests with lies, and gaslighting is not simple lies(read up on it), then and only then think seriously about divorce and it's consequences compared to a life of educating yourself about defending your sanity against mild gaslighting and **** tests. 

I think this is a somewhat normal part of marriage. I believe love, when it has a strong element of infatuation, always causes us to overlook some issues.


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## 2ntnuf

Be warned.

Women hate being taped or told what they actually said. You will be playing with the security of your marriage. 

I once wrote down what my ex told me when we were talking. I did it right after we were done talking. She eventually found the paper. She was hot. Rather than helping my marriage relationship, it hurt it. 

She has the right to say what she wants. It isn't necessarily fact, but what she is feeling. Feelings change. You can't hold someone to their feelings at the time. There is an underlying issue. It's a man's job to decipher that and deal with it. She will then feel better about the relationship. Her answers will be different to the same issues.


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## JustTheWife

FastNFurious said:


> Retroactive Jealousy can be really ugly. Knowing details of previous hook-ups can really mess with our heads. However, what she did 15 years ago shouldn't matter today. I'm sure she lied to you about her previous encounters and who blames her? Women want men to think they are wholesome and when we know details of what they've actually done before us it taints that image. Nothing good will come from this trust me. Just gotta let it go. It's hard believe me I've been there but you can't change it and it's not worth ruining something great.





2ntnuf said:


> ...
> 
> It's obvious most men cannot handle the truth when it comes to their wife's sex life before them. I believe this is inherent. Cavemen could not afford to raise a child that was not their own. My thinking is this is the reason women think all men want a virgin. Maybe, somewhere way back in their primitive brain, they do? It doesn't change the fact that a woman has her own feelings and desires.
> 
> What is important is to recognize any woman and any man, can be unfaithful. Some have a great wall built against infidelity, but that can be torn down within the right circumstances. Those are a little different for everyone.
> 
> ...
> 
> I think this is a somewhat normal part of marriage. I believe love, when it has a strong element of infatuation, always causes us to overlook some issues.


I tend to see it this way too. I know it's wrong not to tell my husband about my past encounters (lying by omission) but what's the alternative? I agree that this kind of thing can seriously mess with his head and cause deep psychological damage. Why create this when it's all in the past? Stir up the past and then hurt him psychologically? That doesn't really make any sense to me.


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## Lila

2ntnuf said:


> Be warned.
> 
> Women hate being taped or told what they actually said. You will be playing with the security of your marriage.
> 
> I once wrote down what my ex told me when we were talking. I did it right after we were done talking. She eventually found the paper. She was hot. Rather than helping my marriage relationship, it hurt it.
> 
> She has the right to say what she wants. It isn't necessarily fact, but what she is feeling. Feelings change. You can't hold someone to their feelings at the time. There is an underlying issue. It's a man's job to decipher that and deal with it. She will then feel better about the relationship. Her answers will be different to the same issues.


To be fair, most women AND men hate having their words thrown back in their face. That's human nature and not something specific to either sex. 

OP, instead of trying to "catch" your wife in a lie, you can try to get clarification on what she means by "hooking up".


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## red oak

JustTheWife said:


> I tend to see it this way too. I know it's wrong not to tell my husband about my past encounters (lying by omission) but what's the alternative? * I agree that this kind of thing can seriously mess with his head and cause deep psychological damage. * Why create this when it's all in the past? Stir up the past and then hurt him psychologically? That doesn't really make any sense to me.


Not all men.


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## VladDracul

Men seem to have this stupid desire to instigate their wives into ranking them on a sexual scale, hoping to be at the top. It’s a risky gamble for your ego. Suffice it to say you ain’t the only one with a mule that can plow that field so don’t get your feeling hurt that she didn’t marry you because she can’t think of you without wetting her pants. I’d be willing to bet old Belto would not have any concern about his old lady’s trustworthyness if she convinced
him he’s the best she ever had.


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## JustTheWife

red oak said:


> Not all men.


I'm sure you're right. Some may not care, some may even like it! But unless you know for sure, it's a big risk. So if he wants to know, he will ask. If he doesn't want to know, he won't. And if you volunteer it, you may be ruining things for him. Forever.

I think @FastNFurious makes a lot of sense.


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## TAMAT

I think one relevant question is if any of her old hook ups are still in her life as a special someone.

My W had a young man she met in college who explained the world to her and was like no one she ever met, this is from her diary. My W also denies that anything physical happened.

Every few years of so they wrote letters to each other, about life events without any emotional depth. He is another country so they never met in person again or even phoned and there have been no letters for about 15 years now. 

If she had concealed this person and the letters I would have had a real problem with it.


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## Casual Observer

JustTheWife said:


> I tend to see it this way too. I know it's wrong not to tell my husband about my past encounters (lying by omission) but what's the alternative? I agree that this kind of thing can seriously mess with his head and cause deep psychological damage. * Why create this when it's all in the past? Stir up the past and then hurt him psychologically? That doesn't really make any sense to me.*


Because you may not understand exactly where his head is. Prior to everything going upside-down with my wife's diary revelations, we were actually living in two different marriages. She had a marriage in which, despite many things I said to the contrary, she thought was great. Something to be proud of. Even though she had said things like "If sex is so important to you, go find a hooker." 

What's my point. My point is that you may not be able to relate to what he's feeling or thinking. You could be unaware of the "Captain Obvious" sort of things and not quite have a handle on his perspective of your marriage. My wife certainly had no perspective of mine. She could not connect empathetically with my concerns and fears. I didn't express them the way she would have, I guess. To me, it was obvious. To her, she wanted to believe things were OK so badly, despite the things she'd say, that she saw and heard and mostly processed things in a way that said, stay the course.

I think we give ourselves way too much credit for being able to, in the long term, control a false narrative.


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## TJW

Casual Observer said:


> I think we give ourselves way too much credit for being able to, in the long term, control a false narrative.



There's an excellent example thread (actually, a before-after set of threads) :

LATEST UPDATE

ORIGINAL THREAD - 4 months ago

It's almost an exact case-in-point. The wife of these threads tried to live a facade - her husband didn't "ask", she didn't "volunteer" - but a friend from the past exposed the truth in a situation which was not under her control.

The Psalmist wrote (Psalms 51:6 KJV) :

_Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
_

Thankfully, this wife's husband was able to understand that this was not a problem "with him"..... and it seems that the revelation brought about a catharsis and a chance for their marriage to get better.


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## BluesPower

Casual Observer said:


> Because you may not understand exactly where his head is. Prior to everything going upside-down with my wife's diary revelations, we were actually living in two different marriages. She had a marriage in which, despite many things I said to the contrary, she thought was great. Something to be proud of. Even though she had said things like "If sex is so important to you, go find a hooker."
> 
> What's my point. My point is that you may not be able to relate to what he's feeling or thinking. You could be unaware of the "Captain Obvious" sort of things and not quite have a handle on his perspective of your marriage. My wife certainly had no perspective of mine. She could not connect empathetically with my concerns and fears. I didn't express them the way she would have, I guess. To me, it was obvious. To her, she wanted to believe things were OK so badly, despite the things she'd say, that she saw and heard and mostly processed things in a way that said, stay the course.
> 
> I think we give ourselves way too much credit for being able to, in the long term, control a false narrative.


Wow, that sounds horrible...


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## JustTheWife

Casual Observer said:


> Because you may not understand exactly where his head is. Prior to everything going upside-down with my wife's diary revelations, we were actually living in two different marriages. She had a marriage in which, despite many things I said to the contrary, she thought was great. Something to be proud of. Even though she had said things like "If sex is so important to you, go find a hooker."
> 
> What's my point. My point is that you may not be able to relate to what he's feeling or thinking. You could be unaware of the "Captain Obvious" sort of things and not quite have a handle on his perspective of your marriage. My wife certainly had no perspective of mine. She could not connect empathetically with my concerns and fears. I didn't express them the way she would have, I guess. To me, it was obvious. To her, she wanted to believe things were OK so badly, despite the things she'd say, that she saw and heard and mostly processed things in a way that said, stay the course.
> 
> I think we give ourselves way too much credit for being able to, in the long term, control a false narrative.


I'm not sure I completely understand. But in a way, your perception is your reality. We all have our own perceptions of things. Your perception is your truth.

I think that humans are innately private. We all have all kinds of thoughts in our heads and they are our own. We have experiences and who we are is shaped by these experiences and the mysterious codes of our DNA. Our experiences, like our thoughts can be selectively shared. And when we do share them, they are tinted by our perception of them. And what people perceive of them is tinted by their own perceptions. For the external world, we have a facade, an interface to the outside world. that's the reality and you can create that. We all create that. I'm not at all talking about being "fake". Everyone has an interface. Your interface is the only thing that the outside world sees, hears and feels. It's how we behave. It's who we are to the outside world. We own our interface and we have full rights to it. We can create the reality that other people have of us.

You select what you put in your shop window and what you don't. If you have sexual experiences that you don't want to put in your shop window, then it's your right not to. They might always be part of the private part of you, but you have the right to delete them from the interface that you share with other people.


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## BluesPower

JustTheWife said:


> I'm not sure I completely understand. But in a way, your perception is your reality. We all have our own perceptions of things. Your perception is your truth.
> 
> I think that humans are innately private. We all have all kinds of thoughts in our heads and they are our own. We have experiences and who we are is shaped by these experiences and the mysterious codes of our DNA. Our experiences, like our thoughts can be selectively shared. And when we do share them, they are tinted by our perception of them. And what people perceive of them is tinted by their own perceptions. For the external world, we have a facade, an interface to the outside world. that's the reality and you can create that. We all create that. I'm not at all talking about being "fake". Everyone has an interface. Your interface is the only thing that the outside world sees, hears and feels. It's how we behave. It's who we are to the outside world. We own our interface and we have full rights to it. We can create the reality that other people have of us.
> 
> You select what you put in your shop window and what you don't. If you have sexual experiences that you don't want to put in your shop window, then it's your right not to. They might always be part of the private part of you, but you have the right to delete them from the interface that you share with other people.


You definitely have the right to feel this way. And for the record, I think this is really interesting. 

But think about what CO said about his wife thinking everything was OK even though they were not having sex. 

And think about OP in this thread, he says he is having sex 3 times a week so what is he griping about? 

I would submit this for thought along with your post... 

I would submit that we as people actually be who we are. I would submit that we as people actually be authentic. 

That is what I work for. I work to be real. I am sure that I am not perfect, but I work for that. 

So even though OP is having "sex" 3 times a week, I know for me, I will have sex one time and may not finish if they are not into it. I will not have duty sex with anyone. I think it is disgusting. 

In fact, if it happened again, and my partner did not explain what was going on, that relationship would be over. 

So OP's wife, not being into him, but giving him duty sex, is not something that I could live with. Shouldn't she try and be real and tell the truth. 

And you know CO's wife was in denial, she knew he wanted to have sex. I don't know how that worked out but good grief that is horrible. 

Don't we all want to be real people and be with real people as well???


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## 2ntnuf

Lila said:


> To be fair, most women AND men hate having their words thrown back in their face. That's human nature and not something specific to either sex.
> 
> OP, instead of trying to "catch" your wife in a lie, you can try to get clarification on what she means by "hooking up".


I expected this to be taken as sexist, but not by you. Yes, men do not like when things are thrown back in their face. However, that kind of aggression was not what I meant, nor was it what I was suggesting he do. 

I want him to see what he is thinking and if it is correct. Many times we don't hear what is being said. We form our own opinions from our pasts and our insecurities. We all have them. 

If, by chance he finds that he is correct about what he calls gaslighting, he may want to learn about it. If he finds that he is, 'making a mountain out of a mole hill', he may want to learn why he is having these thoughts and work through that. 

Confronting her with her exact words would be disastrous. That's a common mistake. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to talk to someone about the difference between what they say today and then what they say some other time when their emotions aren't so raw. It's a matter of careful timing, preparation and selection of words while knowing the other person as well as we can. 

I'm sorry you took offense to my comment.


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## JustTheWife

BluesPower said:


> You definitely have the right to feel this way. And for the record, I think this is really interesting.
> 
> But think about what CO said about his wife thinking everything was OK even though they were not having sex.
> 
> And think about OP in this thread, he says he is having sex 3 times a week so what is he griping about?
> 
> I would submit this for thought along with your post...
> 
> I would submit that we as people actually be who we are. I would submit that we as people actually be authentic.
> 
> That is what I work for. I work to be real. I am sure that I am not perfect, but I work for that.
> 
> So even though OP is having "sex" 3 times a week, I know for me, I will have sex one time and may not finish if they are not into it. I will not have duty sex with anyone. I think it is disgusting.
> 
> In fact, if it happened again, and my partner did not explain what was going on, that relationship would be over.
> 
> So OP's wife, not being into him, but giving him duty sex, is not something that I could live with. Shouldn't she try and be real and tell the truth.
> 
> And you know CO's wife was in denial, she knew he wanted to have sex. I don't know how that worked out but good grief that is horrible.
> 
> Don't we all want to be real people and be with real people as well???


I don't really know what a "real person" is. I mean, we all get that there are people we say are "fake" and people we praise with the holy grail of "authentic". But people, IMO, are mostly private by nature. Even the ones that we say are extroverts and talk about themselves constantly. They still have a big private side. Sex is usually on the private side of people, no matter how 'authentic' they are. even relatively sexual people keep most of their sexual life private to most people in their lives. Authentic most certainly does not mean that you expose your sexuality to everyone in every part of your life.

Even authentic people have an outward interface and a private side.


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## Casual Observer

JustTheWife said:


> I don't really know what a "real person" is. I mean, we all get that there are people we say are "fake" and people we praise with the holy grail of "authentic". But people, IMO, are mostly private by nature. Even the ones that we say are extroverts and talk about themselves constantly. They still have a big private side. Sex is usually on the private side of people, no matter how 'authentic' they are. even relatively sexual people keep most of their sexual life private to most people in their lives. Authentic most certainly does not mean that you expose your sexuality to everyone in every part of your life.
> 
> Even authentic people have an outward interface and a private side.


The more "private" the person, the bigger the potential issue here. My wife is very private. Especially compared to me. She won't tell people what's causing her issues. She WANTS others to believe she doesn't have problems. She wants to keep them to herself. You have to pry things out of her. 

The point? You really don't know what's going on in your partner's mind, what they might be thinking, what they're concerned about, if they're "private" and you don't start the conversation. It is not safe to assume that, since they haven't brought up their partner's past, it doesn't weigh heavily on their mind.

One more thing. Regarding sex being on the "private" side? I'm guessing, totally guessing here, that the less-experience someone has had sexually, the more they feel threatened by what they don't know or suspect. The person who has had just one or two partners may feel much more insecure in a world in which their experiences are far below the norm.


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## Casual Observer

Casual Observer said:


> Because you may not understand exactly where his head is. Prior to everything going upside-down with my wife's diary revelations, we were actually living in two different marriages. She had a marriage in which, despite many things I said to the contrary, she thought was great. Something to be proud of. Even though she had said things like "If sex is so important to you, go find a hooker."
> 
> What's my point. My point is that you may not be able to relate to what he's feeling or thinking. You could be unaware of the "Captain Obvious" sort of things and not quite have a handle on his perspective of your marriage. My wife certainly had no perspective of mine. She could not connect empathetically with my concerns and fears. I didn't express them the way she would have, I guess. To me, it was obvious. To her, she wanted to believe things were OK so badly, despite the things she'd say, that she saw and heard and mostly processed things in a way that said, stay the course.
> 
> I think we give ourselves way too much credit for being able to, in the long term, control a false narrative.





BluesPower said:


> Wow, that sounds horrible...


That does not define the totality of my marriage, but yes, that aspect of it was in fact pretty bad. That was then. Today, things are changing, definitely for the better. It's unfortunate this couldn't have happened many years ago, but that doesn't at all lessen the need to have it happen now. That marriage-by-momentum thing that is so important to my wife... the idea that things couldn't have been that bad because look how long we've been married, look how many people got divorced. That can change. You can put a stop to it at any time. That time is now.


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## VladDracul

Lila said:


> you can try to get clarification on what she means by "hooking up".


My take is it was the shape of his pecker.


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## Lila

2ntnuf said:


> I expected this to be taken as sexist, but not by you. Yes, men do not like when things are thrown back in their face. However, that kind of aggression was not what I meant, nor was it what I was suggesting he do.
> 
> I want him to see what he is thinking and if it is correct. Many times we don't hear what is being said. We form our own opinions from our pasts and our insecurities. We all have them.
> 
> If, by chance he finds that he is correct about what he calls gaslighting, he may want to learn about it. If he finds that he is, 'making a mountain out of a mole hill', he may want to learn why he is having these thoughts and work through that.
> 
> Confronting her with her exact words would be disastrous. That's a common mistake. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to talk to someone about the difference between what they say today and then what they say some other time when their emotions aren't so raw. It's a matter of careful timing, preparation and selection of words while knowing the other person as well as we can.
> 
> I'm sorry you took offense to my comment.


I am not offended but was correcting you. When you post about how "women do this.." or "women do that..." it makes it appear like ONLY women do this or that when in fact it is a human condition that ALL people do. 

Regardless, this is something he needs to address with his therapist.


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## BluesPower

Casual Observer said:


> That does not define the totality of my marriage, but yes, that aspect of it was in fact pretty bad. That was then. Today, things are changing, definitely for the better. It's unfortunate this couldn't have happened many years ago, but that doesn't at all lessen the need to have it happen now. That marriage-by-momentum thing that is so important to my wife... the idea that things couldn't have been that bad because look how long we've been married, look how many people got divorced. That can change. You can put a stop to it at any time. That time is now.


I am glad that it is getting better. 

For me, I just don't feel like staying in a marriage, just to stay is a thing I care about any more. I did and did it before, no sexual problems but plenty of others, and I will never do it again. 

My fiancé and I plan on getting married. I am not against marriage, but if I am not happy, and I am talking pretty ****ing happy, I will not stay in it. 

Maybe I am jaded, but I did my time sacrificing my life for my kids and my insane ex wife, I will never do it again...


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## 2ntnuf

Lila said:


> I am not offended but was correcting you. When you post about how "women do this.." or "women do that..." it makes it appear like ONLY women do this or that when in fact it is a human condition that ALL people do.
> 
> Regardless, this is something he needs to address with his therapist.


That would be a correction for the reader and a bit of a disclaimer for them. Thank you.

I actually wasn't addressing what men hate. I believe I agreed that men would hate it or in your vernacular, most. In your post, you admit most women do hate this. I've found that to be true. Therefore my post is, fair enough. Isn't it?


----------



## Lila

2ntnuf said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not offended but was correcting you. When you post about how "women do this.." or "women do that..." it makes it appear like ONLY women do this or that when in fact it is a human condition that ALL people do.
> 
> Regardless, this is something he needs to address with his therapist.
> 
> 
> 
> That would be a correction for the reader and a bit of a disclaimer for them. Thank you.
> 
> I actually wasn't addressing what men hate. I believe I agreed that men would hate it or in your vernacular, most. In your post, you admit most women do hate this. I've found that to be true. *Therefore my post is, fair enough. Isn't it?*
Click to expand...

It was after I helped you clarify that it's a universal response and not something specific to one sex. Now that that's clarified, yes it's fair.


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## Balto109

there have been some very good opinions but retroactive jealousy is not one...I am not hung up on her past in that sense. I am hung up on the way that it's very apparent I've been lied to. We've had real conversations about things like cheating and it's always been thrown at me that if I were to ever do it I'd be out the door, which is understandable and where she's insisted she's never cheated before but then she shares a journal where it's in black and white where she has. That is very troubling. We've had a lot of conversations where she's shared things but it's pretty weird to have something as a contradiction written in a journal. I think it's ridiculous to say I'm being critical of her writing and how she writes. Sorry but I think someone writting in a journal or diary is likely to be the most open about what happened because the likelyhood of someone else reading it is doubtful. I have really dropped this with my wife because it isn't going anywhere, i know what hooking up is and if she wants to say otherwise, let her believe that. I did ask her to be honest and to at least tell me if she's ever cheated on me because she did go away for a conference for a week a couple years ago but she said absolutely not and she would tell me if she had. I also gently asked if she ever told her old BF she cheated on him and she said she did...her journal says otherwise, where she could never tell him... It was also curious because she was very dismissive and said she had only kissed the guy where I read night one they did kiss and the next night he went into her tent was running his hand up her leg and said he wasn't going to kiss her unless she "put out" and things got intense. She made him promise not to tell anyone about the "hookup" too. I did not mention any of this and just let it go.


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## 2ntnuf

I was reading that when a woman is ovulating, she is most vulnerable to cheating. Don't know if that is true, but seems like it would be. I used to know what to say about cheating. The more I read, the more I doubt there are any modern women who have not cheated at some point while in a committed relationship. I simply don't want to believe that. I struggle. 

I think each of us has to figure out what to do. Some can work through it and others cannot.


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