# First Counseling Session-True Colors



## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

Time being wasted? Am I just rushing this process?

We have been in this stagnant place for at least 2 years now. I posted a year ago when I was at a breaking point and actually started to accept the fact that this marriage was not healthy and I went to counseling to work thru those emotions. (he didn’t want to go-went once) Since then I have learned how to deal with my Narcissist husband and became more vocal about how I feel, as of January 2016 I told him that things aren’t changing and I am ready to start moving forward ie. Move out/start divorce process. I have just gone numb to him and of course NOW a year later he is doing all these things to try and keep me including counseling cause that’s the only way I will consider staying in this marriage. 

We just had our first counseling yesterday and my mind is just blown at his behavior and words in counseling. His true Narcissist colors showed and he was all over the place- Me Me Me-rude to the counselor-emotional-angry-insulting etc. He said some crazy things in there saying that “I am making him think these crazy things” example find a 20yr old and go start a new family?!! I’m shocked! Like WTH?! I wasn’t expecting that one but hey I guess that how he feels ? After the session he was crying and saying he couldn’t look at me and wanted to go get kids. I refused him cause he was just not stable enough and scaring me. I’m losing patience and I’m starting to think even this is a waste of time. 

We have kids and after yesterday Im thinking the longer I stay the more mental damage he will cause them, I have been patient thinking I will keep trying to make it work for the kids. Zi don’t want them to be hurt by a broken home. I’m not so sure anymore I feel like I can be strong and more stable then what they are currently living in. Now Im wondering what we will get out of counseling? Am I just rushing this process? I just wanna file and start moving out already. UGH


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Give it a couple of more MC sessions to see if his attitude changes. The first one was a shock to him and he fought back. Let's see if it slowly starts to sink in.

When is the next session? Hopefully next week.


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

Yes, we are scheduled for next week. He wouldn't make eye contact with counselor, she had to ask him 3 times like a child to look at her and answer the question: Do you want to join your wife in counseling next week?


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Give it a few more sessions and see how he reacts. 

I am glad you understand the impact this marriage is having on your kids. A lot of people stay in bad marriages for the kids, not wanting to admit the damage it does to the children. 

Mama, stay strong just a little bit more. Your kids need you to be their safe and strong place. Try going out a bit to get away from his influence and do things away from him.

Keep posting to vent. My heart is with you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

M0M_SDG said:


> Yes, we are scheduled for next week. He wouldn't make eye contact with counselor, she had to ask him 3 times like a child to look at her and answer the question: Do you want to join your wife in counseling next week?


First thing that a guilty person will do is to try and avoid eye contact


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## yellerstang03 (Nov 18, 2015)

M0M_SDG said:


> Time being wasted? Am I just rushing this process?
> 
> We have been in this stagnant place for at least 2 years now. I posted a year ago when I was at a breaking point and actually started to accept the fact that this marriage was not healthy and I went to counseling to work thru those emotions. (he didn’t want to go-went once) Since then I have learned how to deal with my Narcissist husband and became more vocal about how I feel, as of January 2016 I told him that things aren’t changing and I am ready to start moving forward ie. Move out/start divorce process. I have just gone numb to him and of course NOW a year later he is doing all these things to try and keep me including counseling cause that’s the only way I will consider staying in this marriage.
> 
> ...


Your husband most likely suffers from some sort of emotional arrested development. And this is what causes adults to have child-like behavior in conflict situations. What do you know about his childhood and any traumatic events? Is there any rejection, abuse, abandonment, molestation, death of a family member below the age of 13? These things will all cause shame, which will then drive your husband's negative behavior for the rest of his life....until he decides to face his past and his pain.

People can change, but often there are several coping/defensive mechanisms that are in place that can stunt change. Those mechanisms are so strong (they're subconscious) that sometimes we would rather sacrifice our relationship with our spouse than moderate our own defense mechanisms, face our own pain, and heal for the sake of the relationship. They're that powerful. But if someone can get past those layers of defenses, there is probably a hurt little boy.

Marriage counseling isn't very helpful to people who have a lot of childhood wounds. It requires individual/group therapy and it needs to be more intense. People need to heal their own pasts before they can heal their marriage.

Also, have you looked at your own past yet? Or is everything you husband's fault? Remember, despite his behavior he is your husband and not an enemy. And everyone is responsible for their own feelings and behavior. No one can make us feel and act a certain way.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

If he is a true narcissist, you are fighting a losing battle. Unless of course he is aware that he is and actively works with a therapist of some sort (on his own...) to get his PD under control. Is he doing that? Im guessing probably not. He will pull out all the stops to get you to stay, then once he feels that you are securely in your place, he will go right back to being himself. 

Your children will end up much more damaged by having to live with him than if you split up. Narcissists are so toxic.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MOM I feel for you, however you have only started the process. Everyone will tell you that it will not be easy but you owe it to yourself, your kids, your marriage to go through the MC and give it some time. if there are no break throughs then decide what to do next. You may find it tough, full of mixed emotions, but you cannot rush this process. Be brave.


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## B-you (Mar 27, 2016)

yellerstang03 said:


> Your husband most likely suffers from some sort of emotional arrested development. And this is what causes adults to have child-like behavior in conflict situations. What do you know about his childhood and any traumatic events? Is there any rejection, abuse, abandonment, molestation, death of a family member below the age of 13? These things will all cause shame, which will then drive your husband's negative behavior for the rest of his life....until he decides to face his past and his pain.
> 
> People can change, but often there are several coping/defensive mechanisms that are in place that can stunt change. Those mechanisms are so strong (they're subconscious) that sometimes we would rather sacrifice our relationship with our spouse than moderate our own defense mechanisms, face our own pain, and heal for the sake of the relationship. They're that powerful. But if someone can get past those layers of defenses, there is probably a hurt little boy.
> 
> ...


I would totally agree. Marriage counseling does not help when one or both people are broken individuals.

My husband has an undiagnosed personality disorder. I'm wandering is it possible to have more than 1? I toggle between thinking he is narcissistic or passive aggressive. He displays traits from both disorders.

They say that these people can make you crazy and they can, but I have found that the thing that distinguishes their victims from them is the fact that we can empathize. They can't and I don't know if that is their fault, but I certainly know it's not mine. 

My H acts like I he can do no wrong, but his parents practically raised him to be that way. He didn't have to take any responsibility for anything, so why would he think he had to now. 

In the early stages of our marriage, I saw his ability to care; now, I rarely see it. Maybe our marriage played a part in all of this. I wouldn't doubt it, but at least I can accept that. He doesn't want to accept responsibility for anything other than being a victim.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> If he is a true narcissist, you are fighting a losing battle. Unless of course he is aware that he is and actively works with a therapist of some sort (on his own...) to get his PD under control. Is he doing that? Im guessing probably not. He will pull out all the stops to get you to stay, then once he feels that you are securely in your place, he will go right back to being himself.
> 
> Your children will end up much more damaged by having to live with him than if you split up. Narcissists are so toxic.


:iagree:

While the other posters have the right idea when NOT dealing with a narcissist, reasoning with a true narc is impossible. They have no empathy, they will only do and say what they think will work in the situation due to their need to preserve their facade. They will lie and deny (gaslight) as necessary, weep as necessary, charm as necessary, and when those don't work, watch out - then comes anger. With a narc you are either with them or against them. As soon as he realizes you are serious, you WILL become their enemy. No matter how nice and reasonable you want to be. 

There is no way to resolve anything. You have children? Protect them at all cost from a narc. They WILL be manipulated to choose sides, be told all sorts of lies, and if they don't comply, they will feel the wrath by being ostracized by their own parent. Look up 'parallel parenting plan' - you will need one.


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

yellerstang03 said:


> Your husband most likely suffers from some sort of emotional arrested development. And this is what causes adults to have child-like behavior in conflict situations. What do you know about his childhood and any traumatic events? Is there any rejection, abuse, abandonment, molestation, death of a family member below the age of 13? These things will all cause shame, which will then drive your husband's negative behavior for the rest of his life....until he decides to face his past and his pain.
> 
> People can change, but often there are several coping/defensive mechanisms that are in place that can stunt change. Those mechanisms are so strong (they're subconscious) that sometimes we would rather sacrifice our relationship with our spouse than moderate our own defense mechanisms, face our own pain, and heal for the sake of the relationship. They're that powerful. But if someone can get past those layers of defenses, there is probably a hurt little boy.
> 
> ...


Yellerstang03 you nailed it! He has A LOT of childhood issues he never dealt with and was raised by a NARC. That's how I realized he too has her character traits. He never met his real father; his mom married when he was 1yrs old and he was adopted. His parents then divorced and that's when all the more pain hit him. He went from a "picture perfect" home to a mess. His mother treated him as an object to manipulate her relationships and then when the marriage ended she left him to be with his Grandma. That's a little glance of his childhood. I know that's a HUGE issue of his but he refuses to acknowledge it and seek help. 

The counselor called me the next day to see how I was since our first session was very intense and she saw the rage inside him, she said she will be referring him to seek individual sessions with a colleague of hers. I really hope he accepts it. 

I can already see the manipulation he is doing with our kids. We are all just objects to him.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

You did the best you could and even tried going to counseling to save your marriage. But ultimately, your husband will not change his personality or who he is no matter how bad he wants to keep you around. Especially a narcissist. Sounds like he needs to grow up a little, too. I suggest moving forward in your life and starting the divorce process if that is what you want. You need to take care of yourself and the kids. Also, make sure he doesn't try to bring the kids in the middle of it!


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

EnjoliWoman said:


> :iagree:
> 
> While the other posters have the right idea when NOT dealing with a narcissist, reasoning with a true narc is impossible. They have no empathy, they will only do and say what they think will work in the situation due to their need to preserve their facade. They will lie and deny (gaslight) as necessary, weep as necessary, charm as necessary, and when those don't work, watch out - then comes anger. With a narc you are either with them or against them. As soon as he realizes you are serious, you WILL become their enemy. No matter how nice and reasonable you want to be.
> 
> There is no way to resolve anything. You have children? Protect them at all cost from a narc. They WILL be manipulated to choose sides, be told all sorts of lies, and if they don't comply, they will feel the wrath by being ostracized by their own parent. Look up 'parallel parenting plan' - you will need one.


Yes, this is exactly how it is right now. He is crying to me one day the next he is angry telling me Im so lucky and will regret this, next he trying to buy my love, guliting me, on and on and telling kids no one loves him and he is lonely which in turn makes them sad. Its all a mind **** and emotional roller coaster that I DONT want my innocent kids to think is normal. I have a big heart and love him feel bad for his situation but at this point of our marriage he isn't growing up and now I just need to focus on kids environment.


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> If he is a true narcissist, you are fighting a losing battle. Unless of course he is aware that he is and actively works with a therapist of some sort (on his own...) to get his PD under control. Is he doing that? Im guessing probably not. He will pull out all the stops to get you to stay, then once he feels that you are securely in your place, he will go right back to being himself.
> 
> Your children will end up much more damaged by having to live with him than if you split up. Narcissists are so toxic.


Yes, that's the pattern of our relationship. He puts up his façade and then starts to get back to his comfort. broken record. ;/


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## yellerstang03 (Nov 18, 2015)

M0M_SDG said:


> Yellerstang03 you nailed it! He has A LOT of childhood issues he never dealt with and was raised by a NARC. That's how I realized he too has her character traits. He never met his real father; his mom married when he was 1yrs old and he was adopted. His parents then divorced and that's when all the more pain hit him. He went from a "picture perfect" home to a mess. His mother treated him as an object to manipulate her relationships and then when the marriage ended she left him to be with his Grandma. That's a little glance of his childhood. I know that's a HUGE issue of his but he refuses to acknowledge it and seek help.
> 
> The counselor called me the next day to see how I was since our first session was very intense and she saw the rage inside him, she said she will be referring him to seek individual sessions with a colleague of hers. I really hope he accepts it.
> 
> I can already see the manipulation he is doing with our kids. We are all just objects to him.


Ok fine....but what about the part where I asked about you? You did not even acknowledge my question where I asked about you. What about your childhood? If you really want to heal yourself, start looking at yourself, too. It can't all be about your husband and what he does. What are you doing? What are your defense mechanisms?


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

This site you should find helpful Going ?Gray Rock? with a Narcissist | Narcissist Support. This site discusses BPD but has helpful tips for you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

M0M_SDG said:


> Yes, this is exactly how it is right now. He is crying to me one day the next he is angry telling me Im so lucky and will regret this, next he trying to buy my love, guliting me, on and on and telling kids no one loves him and he is lonely which in turn makes them sad. Its all a mind **** and emotional roller coaster that I DONT want my innocent kids to think is normal. I have a big heart and love him feel bad for his situation but at this point of our marriage he isn't growing up and now I just need to focus on kids environment.


People, (men more so I think as they cannot express as well what is inside, have to be tough etc) who were traumatised when young have these kind of traits, my H is similar. We get the 'nobody loves me' 'you all just want me for my money' it's emotional blackmail pure and simple. He needs help.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

After reading your update, I am in awe at how your husband thinks it's ok to use the kids to play mind games with you like that. Does he not see how this will affect them too, or does he not care?


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

yellerstang03 said:


> Ok fine....but what about the part where I asked about you? You did not even acknowledge my question where I asked about you. What about your childhood? If you really want to heal yourself, start looking at yourself, too. It can't all be about your husband and what he does. What are you doing? What are your defense mechanisms?


I have been seeking counseling on my own for awhile and they have helped me to see the emotional abuse. Im not claiming perfection by no means but I have enough courage and self esteem to know that I do not need to say in an emotional abusive relationship. I guess I also just have to come to the grips that he will never see my point of view. Or understand it.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

M0M_SDG said:


> I have been seeking counseling on my own for awhile and they have helped me to see the emotional abuse. Im not claiming perfection by no means but I have enough courage and self esteem to know that I do not need to say in an emotional abusive relationship. I guess I also just have to come to the grips that he will never see my point of view. Or understand it.


It is good that you are seeking counseling and that you are opening yourself up to these realizations. Your kids may need some counseling too to help them get through this and so their dad can’t totally screw them up with his mind games.


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

**Update we had our 2nd session yesterday. I don't think I mentioned this in my first post but he also insulted the counselor during our session (she wasn't a good at her job because she was divorced) Once again....I'm baffeled at his reactions in counseling. He insulted our counselor again!! She finally told him that she will no longer see us as a couple unless he agrees to seek help on his own, he needs one on one therapy. After a lot of resistance he finally agreed to seek help on his own. It's like he sabotaged that session on purpose. I am even more so thinking this is waste of time!! our session got cut short and now its just up to him to get counseling but in the meantime??? I mean what I just have to be more patient uggghhhh I'm so emotionally drained! Now he is putting it all on me....He is in shock that I want to leave him, Give him another chance and why am I not fighting for him or this marriage? We get home and he tells the kids hes sad cause he is always alone. I finally just told him STOP stop projecting your feelings onto them, its not fair! He just said ok I guess I will just bottle everything up. IDK but counseling has made me want to leave even quicker. I see all the manipulation and just cant stand it! 

He will just never GET IT! heart broken sad and not sure what I am doing at this point.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

M0M_SDG said:


> **Update we had our 2nd session yesterday. I don't think I mentioned this in my first post but he also insulted the counselor during our session (she wasn't a good at her job because she was divorced) Once again....I'm baffeled at his reactions in counseling. He insulted our counselor again!! She finally told him that she will no longer see us as a couple unless he agrees to seek help on his own, he needs one on one therapy. After a lot of resistance he finally agreed to seek help on his own. It's like he sabotaged that session on purpose. I am even more so thinking this is waste of time!! our session got cut short and now its just up to him to get counseling but in the meantime??? I mean what I just have to be more patient uggghhhh I'm so emotionally drained! Now he is putting it all on me....He is in shock that I want to leave him, Give him another chance and why am I not fighting for him or this marriage? We get home and he tells the kids hes sad cause he is always alone. I finally just told him STOP stop projecting your feelings onto them, its not fair! He just said ok I guess I will just bottle everything up. IDK but counseling has made me want to leave even quicker. I see all the manipulation and just cant stand it!
> 
> He will just never GET IT! heart broken sad and not sure what I am doing at this point.


He is an idiot. Tell him that he doesn’t need to bottle his emotions! He can talk to someone else..friend, family, counselor, but NOT the kids! Wth is he thinking? Or is he just not thinking?! If he can’t stop behaving like this in front of the kids then he needs to move out. I think you two need to do a legal separation and live separately so he can get individual counseling. If you want to make this work then it’s going to take a LONG time for him to get any progress. If you can’t wait that long or if you don’t think he will get any better then it’s time to pull the plug and leave. You tried counseling and obviously he’s not being receptive to it.


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## yellerstang03 (Nov 18, 2015)

M0M_SDG said:


> I have been seeking counseling on my own for awhile and they have helped me to see the emotional abuse. Im not claiming perfection by no means but I have enough courage and self esteem to know that I do not need to say in an emotional abusive relationship. I guess I also just have to come to the grips that he will never see my point of view. Or understand it.


I'm sorry, but you keep deflecting back to your husband. I ask you a very simply question about yourself PRIOR to you meeting your husband and you don't seem to want to answer it. Why is that?

I am not excusing or condoning what he is doing because it is not right. However, there is almost always work for both parties to be doing. It doesn't have to be a 50/50 split, but there is almost always baggage that BOTH parties bring to a marriage. 

I ask again....what about your childhood?


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

yellerstang03 said:


> I'm sorry, but you keep deflecting back to your husband. I ask you a very simply question about yourself PRIOR to you meeting your husband and you don't seem to want to answer it. Why is that?
> 
> I am not excusing or condoning what he is doing because it is not right. However, there is almost always work for both parties to be doing. It doesn't have to be a 50/50 split, but there is almost always baggage that BOTH parties bring to a marriage.
> 
> I ask again....what about your childhood?


I have nothing from my childhood to address, I have a very normal upbringing, both parents have been happily married for 40 years, I'm educated, level headed person just have a big heart and fell for the wrong person (NARC) at a young age. SO yes this is the first Traumatic situation I am facing as an adult and which is why I sough after counseling. I wasn't trying to ignore the question I just don't have anything to point out that I needed to address.


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## yellerstang03 (Nov 18, 2015)

M0M_SDG said:


> I have nothing from my childhood to address, I have a very normal upbringing, both parents have been happily married for 40 years, I'm educated, level headed person just have a big heart and fell for the wrong person (NARC) at a young age. SO yes this is the first Traumatic situation I am facing as an adult and which is why I sough after counseling. I wasn't trying to ignore the question I just don't have anything to point out that I needed to address.


And I think this is a very telling answer. You had a perfect upbringing and there is nothing to look at? Then why would you choose somebody with such a wounded past? It does't make much sense.

Both parties need to be willing to look at themselves or the marriage will not make it. Right now, it sounds like you are unwilling as well as your husband. Your kids deserve better from BOTH of you.


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

yellerstang03 said:


> And I think this is a very telling answer. You had a perfect upbringing and there is nothing to look at? Then why would you choose somebody with such a wounded past? It does't make much sense.
> 
> Both parties need to be willing to look at themselves or the marriage will not make it. Right now, it sounds like you are unwilling as well as your husband. Your kids deserve better from BOTH of you.


I am very willing and open to looking at myself, I've never said I was perfect.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

yellerstang03 said:


> And I think this is a very telling answer. You had a perfect upbringing and there is nothing to look at? Then why would you choose somebody with such a wounded past? It does't make much sense.
> 
> Both parties need to be willing to look at themselves or the marriage will not make it. Right now, it sounds like you are unwilling as well as your husband. Your kids deserve better from BOTH of you.


Your bone's been picked so let it rest. She answered your question and has no responsibility to indulge you further.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

M0M_SDG said:


> Yes, this is exactly how it is right now. He is crying to me one day the next he is angry telling me Im so lucky and will regret this, next he trying to buy my love, guliting me, on and on and telling kids no one loves him and he is lonely which in turn makes them sad. Its all a mind **** and emotional roller coaster that I DONT want my innocent kids to think is normal. I have a big heart and love him feel bad for his situation but at this point of our marriage he isn't growing up and now I just need to focus on kids environment.


Can your MC recommend or actively counsel your children?

Just protect yourself and your kids, if your H is a Narc, someone needs to be the parent. Plus document, document, document. Maybe keep up the counselling so there is a written legal record of his anger and rage. Sorry, I just saw your update. I can only add this, if a man on his good behaviour insults and is aggressive towards someone he's paying, I don't think he'll change. My ex and I went through 3 counselors over 10 years, they all said the same things, he hated it.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

M0M_SDG said:


> I am very willing and open to looking at myself, I've never said I was perfect.



Two words "block button". No one who has never experienced a true narc will ever understand their level and skills at manipulation. I too had a cleaver family upbringing and fell for a Narc, you just fell in love with the wrong guy .


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

DanielleBennett said:


> After reading your update, I am in awe at how your husband thinks it's ok to use the kids to play mind games with you like that. Does he not see how this will affect them too, or does he not care?


people who need help usually only think of themselves first, 'the poor me' radar is the one that is up, everyone else is simply collateral damage. Someone who was traumatised in their childhood will do everything to protect that child inside, rightly or wrongly.

You should also check out the SoberRecovery forum, they deal specifically with addictions including alcohol and drug use. MANIPULATION is the key communication technique of an addict.


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

aine said:


> people who need help usually only think of themselves first, 'the poor me' radar is the one that is up, everyone else is simply collateral damage. Someone who was traumatised in their childhood will do everything to protect that child inside, rightly or wrongly.
> 
> You should also check out the SoberRecovery forum, they deal specifically with addictions including alcohol and drug use. MANIPULATION is the key communication technique of an addict.


Oh yes, he also smoke marijuana heavily. I will need to check that site out. Just another issue we have. ;(

I think the last two sessions have opened my eyes even more to the damage the kids are being exposed and they are going to be my focus at this time.


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## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

yellerstang03 said:


> M0M_SDG said:
> 
> 
> > I have nothing from my childhood to address, I have a very normal upbringing, both parents have been happily married for 40 years, I'm educated, level headed person just have a big heart and fell for the wrong person (NARC) at a young age. SO yes this is the first Traumatic situation I am facing as an adult and which is why I sough after counseling. I wasn't trying to ignore the question I just don't have anything to point out that I needed to address.
> ...


You obviously have no experience dealing with a narcissist or you would know how very normal it is not to see this side of him until you cross him. Narcs can be good partners until they make you their enemy. The problem is once that line is crossed they can never go back, never letting go of their inner feelings.

When I look back to when I first married my ex-husband I can now see some warning signs were there (he had issues with his family that were pretty petty stuff to be so upset over) but really nothing that would have indicated that someday he'd treat me that way. 

I was 20 when we married so I was young & naive but I was raised in a quite normal family - my parents have been married 48 years, no abuse whatsoever in my childhood or my parents, we all are close, and spend a lot of quality family time both growing up & now. I was not a victim or had low self-esteem until years into my first marriage. 

Abusers are really good at breaking you down little by little & becoming a victim can happen to anyone regardless of their history. I do think that my "normal" upbringing is part of why I came out of it all without being too damaged though. I had a good foundation to begin with & even when he had tried to destroy me that foundation held me up & gave me strength to get out of the BS before he destroyed our kids.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

M0M_SDG said:


> Oh yes, he also smoke marijuana heavily. I will need to check that site out. Just another issue we have. ;(
> 
> I think the last two sessions have opened my eyes even more to the damage the kids are being exposed and they are going to be my focus at this time.


Get the kids some counseling and focus on them. That is a great idea, please update when you can.


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## CarlaRose (Jul 6, 2014)

yellerstang03 said:


> Ok fine....but what about the part where I asked about you? You did not even acknowledge my question where I asked about you. What about your childhood? If you really want to heal yourself, start looking at yourself, too. It can't all be about your husband and what he does. What are you doing? What are your defense mechanisms?





yellerstang03 said:


> I'm sorry, but you keep deflecting back to your husband. I ask you a very simply question about yourself PRIOR to you meeting your husband and you don't seem to want to answer it. Why is that?
> 
> I am not excusing or condoning what he is doing because it is not right. However, there is almost always work for both parties to be doing. It doesn't have to be a 50/50 split, but there is almost always baggage that BOTH parties bring to a marriage.
> 
> I ask again....what about your childhood?





yellerstang03 said:


> And I think this is a very telling answer. You had a perfect upbringing and there is nothing to look at? Then why would you choose somebody with such a wounded past? It does't make much sense.
> 
> Both parties need to be willing to look at themselves or the marriage will not make it. Right now, it sounds like you are unwilling as well as your husband. Your kids deserve better from BOTH of you.


Hey, Mom, you have indulged this dime store nonsense more than enough. Too much, actually. Please ignore all this double talk silliness. You have a problem, and that problem is your husband. There is nothing you did and nothing from your childhood that made you select him, except falling for the charming and charismatic facade that he used to dupe you into falling in love with him. I know the narcissist personality all too well just as you have learned. There is nothing you did to cause him to be narcissistic and nothing you could have done to prevent it. There are numerous articles on the internet to help you educate yourself and for anyone else if they care to stop their gibberish while trying so overly hard to make sense, only to make no sense at all.

Pack yourself and your kids, leave, and be happy. There is no point in spending one more day with that guy. Then, get your children into counseling as soon as you can. The separation and then divorce will be a lot for them to deal with because despite his behavior, they don't understand it and they do love their dad. You have to do what is best for yourself and for them, which they won't understand until they are older. In the meantime, there is reversing some damage that needs to be done in addition to learning how to deal with the divorce. And more than anything is the damage that is still to come because he is going to PAS (look it up) the crap out of them. You need to try to head that off before it begins or before it gets any worse, so look into counseling for your children as soon as possible.


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## Honda750 (Feb 12, 2015)

You have had plenty of good and rational replies here ........ Do the right thing and give yourself and your kids a chance to have a peaceful and safe refuge without this loser ........ Make a plan , double check it and get ready to eject yourself and your kids away from 
this mess ......... Trust your gut instincts


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## M0M_SDG (Apr 7, 2015)

CarlaRose said:


> Hey, Mom, you have indulged this dime store nonsense more than enough. Too much, actually. Please ignore all this double talk silliness. You have a problem, and that problem is your husband. There is nothing you did and nothing from your childhood that made you select him, except falling for the charming and charismatic facade that he used to dupe you into falling in love with him. I know the narcissist personality all too well just as you have learned. There is nothing you did to cause him to be narcissistic and nothing you could have done to prevent it. There are numerous articles on the internet to help you educate yourself and for anyone else if they care to stop their gibberish while trying so overly hard to make sense, only to make no sense at all.
> 
> Pack yourself and your kids, leave, and be happy. There is no point in spending one more day with that guy. Then, get your children into counseling as soon as you can. The separation and then divorce will be a lot for them to deal with because despite his behavior, they don't understand it and they do love their dad. You have to do what is best for yourself and for them, which they won't understand until they are older. In the meantime, there is reversing some damage that needs to be done in addition to learning how to deal with the divorce. And more than anything is the damage that is still to come because he is going to PAS (look it up) the crap out of them. You need to try to head that off before it begins or before it gets any worse, so look into counseling for your children as soon as possible.


Thank you! I was thinking I should move to a NPD forum where the support or feedback will have experience in dealing with this disorder. Thank you all here that replied and I appreciate your support.


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## yellerstang03 (Nov 18, 2015)

CarlaRose said:


> Hey, Mom, you have indulged this dime store nonsense more than enough. Too much, actually. Please ignore all this double talk silliness. You have a problem, and that problem is your husband. There is nothing you did and nothing from your childhood that made you select him, except falling for the charming and charismatic facade that he used to dupe you into falling in love with him. I know the narcissist personality all too well just as you have learned. There is nothing you did to cause him to be narcissistic and nothing you could have done to prevent it. There are numerous articles on the internet to help you educate yourself and for anyone else if they care to stop their gibberish while trying so overly hard to make sense, only to make no sense at all.
> 
> Pack yourself and your kids, leave, and be happy. There is no point in spending one more day with that guy. Then, get your children into counseling as soon as you can. The separation and then divorce will be a lot for them to deal with because despite his behavior, they don't understand it and they do love their dad. You have to do what is best for yourself and for them, which they won't understand until they are older. In the meantime, there is reversing some damage that needs to be done in addition to learning how to deal with the divorce. And more than anything is the damage that is still to come because he is going to PAS (look it up) the crap out of them. You need to try to head that off before it begins or before it gets any worse, so look into counseling for your children as soon as possible.


You know what's nonsense? People who are unqualified labeling others as narcissists. Are you a professional psychologist? How could you possibly know about both people's childhoods and the wounds they bring in a couple of posts on an anonymous message board. 

I am actually dealing with a narcissistic spouse and in the middle of a possible divorce as we speak. I am dealing with a spouse that has attempted to label me as 100% the problem while taking no responsibility herself. This is despite my being in 3 hours of group counseling/week and bi-weekly individual counseling too. 

The husband in this case may very well may be a narcissist. But the absolute certainty with which some people here exhibit with very little knowledge or expertise is disappointing. 

One thing is for certain. Rejection is the number one thing that wounds children below the age of 13....and divorce is a form of rejection. Trust me, I live with the wounds to this day and it has taken an enormous amount of therapy (and coming out of denial) to see how wounding my parents divorce was. At it's core, divorce tells children that they are not valuable enough for both parents to deal with their own personal issues for the sake of the family. It doesn't get any more wounding than that. It doesn't mean that both parents are responsible for the same level of change or to change in the same ways.

It's very clear to me the original poster did not want to talk about herself and only wanted others here to confirm her own pre-conceived opinions. Looks like she got what she wanted. My only wish is that people didn't jump to "divorce" so quickly and I think it is sad that this is the solution that is often offered here....and very quickly I might add.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"At it's core, divorce tells children that they are not valuable enough for both parents to deal with their own personal issues for the sake of the family. It doesn't get any more wounding than that."

How sad that you took your parents' divorce upon yourself. My parents divorced when I was around 8 and I never thought I wasn't valuable enough. Even then I realized that these 2 people had no business being in the same room let alone married. In fact, your statement sounds rather self-centered. People who stay together for the kids are just two miserable people inhabiting the same house. Kids pick up on it and if anything this is what wounds a child.

I hope your counseling will help you to forgive your parents for their divorce.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Give a few more counseling session a try. He might have just been saying those things just because he's pissed off that he has to go. If he truly is sorry about what happened, it should happen again.


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## yellerstang03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> "At it's core, divorce tells children that they are not valuable enough for both parents to deal with their own personal issues for the sake of the family. It doesn't get any more wounding than that."
> 
> How sad that you took your parents' divorce upon yourself. My parents divorced when I was around 8 and I never thought I wasn't valuable enough. Even then I realized that these 2 people had no business being in the same room let alone married. In fact, your statement sounds rather self-centered. People who stay together for the kids are just two miserable people inhabiting the same house. Kids pick up on it and if anything this is what wounds a child.
> 
> I hope your counseling will help you to forgive your parents for their divorce.


It was sad that I took it upon myself and it has taken a lot of hard work to get past that. I've basically had to go back and re-parent myself on the things I didn't learn. And it has involved forgiving my parents. I wish I had realized it sooner, but emotions like that get stuffed away as a child and we don't even know that we do it. But do you realize that's what most children do?

I used to feel the same way you do about your parents......until I came to realize that it was just a coping mechanism. After all, how were they supposed to have me if they weren't in the same room? How do you feel valuable if you are saying that your parents should have never met or been married?

You are also assuming there are only two choices available....(1) Stay in a miserable marriage, or (2) Divorce. And that is simply not true. I know it may feel that way sometimes because couples often become locked into a pattern of responses with each other. I have felt the same way. But that's not reality. The reality is we all have choices every day to choose to change. I know that as a man if I can change how I feel about myself, I can change my behavior and therefore my relationship with my son and maybe my wife someday. And if not her, than someone else.

I think the opening poster is doing the right thing by being the first one to change the dynamic....by exploring counseling and starting to draw boundaries. It might even take some sort of separation, maybe a therapeutic separation. Sadly, a lot of men only respond to change when a woman takes serious action, but different types of separations lean towards different outcomes. The Family law court system is not usually in the business of putting marriages back together. Divorce is thrown around too casually and its negative effects often don't show up for years.

My only suggestion was that often in an attempt to blame our spouses, we overlook our own contributions to a marital breakdown.


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