# I need support on this one.... I'm losing it :-(



## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

This upcoming weekend is my birthday. My plan was to spend the time by myself and recharge in prep for the upcoming court date.

Yesterday, STBXH and I had a crazy argument over...well EVERYTHING. Basically, our marriage is due to me only thinking about myself, my career (mind you, I've been home most of our marriage with the kids), or...me CHOOSING to be a SAHM and forcing him into poverty, or me CHOOSING to suggest a move to another city in order to be closer to family, for career opps, et al. or...me....NEVER hearing him, NEVER doing well nothing and everything,....basically, it was all me.

And by default, his crappy behavior was merely a RESPONSE from all of my many faults in the marriage.

Ironcially, he's now speaking to his mother and sister again. Both of whom he frequently admits to not wanting a relationship with, yet is now speaking to again...:scratchhead:


These two never really liked me because according to them, I was horrible and mean...but, both of them have a very odd and almost incestuous relationship with my H ("he chose his wife over us", "he never loved us like that", "she's [me] horrible, and you're such a wonderful man, who was used and hurt by her [me].") Great, whatever!

After having this sparing match, I just caved. he then asked "do you want to come to [vacation] with the kids and me?"

I was dumbfounded. Then he asked my kids, "do you all want mommy to go on vacation with us?"

WTF???

1- I do NOT want to go! Not because I don't want to be with my kids, yet I don't want to be with HIM.

2- I believe he's using my kids to manipulate me.

3- If I do not go, I'm sure he'll turn this around to mean, "She doesn't even want to be with you all on her birthday!"

Tomorrow, I'm contacting my attny. I will ask, straight-up, if LEGALLY it's a good idea that I go. This way, he can't later turn it around on me to my kids..

What's funny, is that I asked him "If you were so unhappy with me, then why did you not DIVORCE ME?"

He gave a lame excuse about being "in love with the concept of M."

I'm so done with this crap, I just want out. 

Advice?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You guys sound like you have no clue about personal boundaries.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I agree with Conrad. Is there a go-to book on boundaries that's as good at the 5 Love Languages and His Needs, Her Needs? A friend recommended this one to me, but I haven't gotten my hands on it yet: Amazon.com: Boundaries: When to Say YES, When to Say NO, To Take Control of Your Life (9780310585909): Henry Cloud, John Townsend: Books


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

northernlights said:


> I agree with Conrad. Is there a go-to book on boundaries that's as good at the 5 Love Languages and His Needs, Her Needs? A friend recommended this one to me, but I haven't gotten my hands on it yet: Amazon.com: Boundaries: When to Say YES, When to Say NO, To Take Control of Your Life (9780310585909): Henry Cloud, John Townsend: Books


This is a good one.

The Nice Factor: The Art of Saying No: Jo-Ellen Grzyb, Robin Chandler: 9781905745364: Amazon.com: Books


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I wouldn't go, and I would not let him manipulate you. He'll run his mouth to the kids no matter what you do. If not over this then something else. You can counter it when you have them and as they get older they will see what's going on. Stop engaging him, do not argue with him. If it's not kid related ignore him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> This is a good one.
> 
> The Nice Factor: The Art of Saying No: Jo-Ellen Grzyb, Robin Chandler: 9781905745364: Amazon.com: Books


Thank you. I will pick this up. Honestly, I'm just so emotionally exhausted by this that I'm done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I wouldn't go, and I would not let him manipulate you. He'll run his mouth to the kids no matter what you do. If not over this then something else. You can counter it when you have them and as they get older they will see what's going on. Stop engaging him, do not argue with him. If it's not kid related ignore him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you!!!

That's why I'm not going. I told him today. Of course he's not trilled, but too bad. I'm tired of putting others' needs first. Primarily his. This stunt is NOT about my kids. It's about him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

persephone71 said:


> Thank you. I will pick this up. Honestly, I'm just so emotionally exhausted by this that I'm done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds hasty.

You're likely just about to learn some revolutionary concepts.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

persephone71 said:


> Thank you. I will pick this up. Honestly, I'm just so emotionally exhausted by this that I'm done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I so know the feeling. 

But I have to cast a vote for digging deep and giving it a little more time.

When I came here, I was so spent. I didn't want to try any more, and I didn't even want to want to try. But I read the threads written by loving spouses who were walked out on out of the blue, and couldn't help but think that this is how divorce must feel to kids. And the only feeling I had that was stronger than my irritation with my H and my contempt for him and our marriage was my desire to protect my kids from those awful feelings.

Boundaries will help A LOT. Once I started applying and enforcing them, my relationship really changed. He didn't change, and "we" didn't change, but *I* changed. When my H does stuff that used to totally set me off and make me so irritated, now I feel nothing. Imagine! Imagine your H doing stupid stuff and it doesn't affect you! Seriously, it's like paradise. 

I can't say that we're not going to end up divorced eventually anyway. I really don't know yet. But I am certain that if we do, I will be emotionally mature enough to truly put the kids front and center and protect and prepare them as much as possible. I know I'll be able to do that, because I have tools now that I didn't have 6 months ago, and I'm aware of emotional health concepts that I wasn't aware of 6 months ago.

Of course, if he's abusive, you have to go right away. But if not, I really do think it's worth giving it a few months, for no other reason that to get yourself to a place we're you're ready to lead your kids through the next year with more strength and wisdom.


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You're likely just about to learn some revolutionary concepts.


I did read the excepts on Googlebooks... While a bit "Christian-y" I do agree that the concepts are applicable to the secular perspective.

Unfortunately, the M is over. This is the second time I've filed. We've been in MC twice. We've been M only 7 years. Our issues are indeed boundaries, but also marked incompatiblity, passive-agression & emotional abuse [his], tolerating and enabling poor behavior [me].

I'm in IC to address my issues. He's refused to go.

Once more, thank you....


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

northernlights said:


> I so know the feeling.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, if he's abusive, you have to go right away. But if not, I really do think it's worth giving it a few months, for no other reason that to get yourself to a place we're you're ready to lead your kids through the next year with more strength and wisdom.


That's the key: There IS HX OF EMOTIONAL ABUSE. Also, my kids are my top priority; hence, why I strongly believe living with parents who are not healthy in their own love is more damaging than D. We are committed to co--parenting. I'm just not beliver of "stay together for the kids." Too many adults are screwed up because they witnessed poor behavior between their parents.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Emotional abuse is by permission.

Effective personal boundaries mitigate it.


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Emotional abuse is by permission.
> 
> Effective personal boundaries mitigate it.


Disagree.

That's like saying physical abuse is because one doesn't fight back. While I *get* that boundaries can lesson the degree, abuse is due to the ABUSER.

However, for me to establish more healthy boundaries (with him or any future relationship) is MY work.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

persephone71 said:


> Disagree.
> 
> That's like saying physical abuse is because one doesn't fight back. While I *get* that boundaries can lesson the degree, abuse is due to the ABUSER.
> 
> However, for me to establish more healthy boundaries (with him or any future relationship) is MY work.


He did nothing to you that you didn't allow

I know it's difficult truth.

Sit with it awhile.


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## luv2luv (Mar 28, 2013)

persephone71 said:


> Disagree.
> 
> That's like saying physical abuse is because one doesn't fight back. While I *get* that boundaries can lesson the degree, abuse is due to the ABUSER.
> 
> However, for me to establish more healthy boundaries (with him or any future relationship) is MY work.


You are completely correct P. Do not let others convince you that someone's decision to abuse you, lies with you. 

Maybe when people are assaulted the same logic should be used, he was only able to stab you because you let him.

You will be fine, just be strong in going in the direction you have chosen
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

Conrad said:


> He did nothing to you that you didn't allow
> 
> I know it's difficult truth.
> 
> Sit with it awhile.


How bout' I not [sit with it awhile].

The "difficult truth" is that there are those who are comfortable blaming victims of abuse. 

I guess if I was wearing a mini-skirt and walking around after midnight, then I ALLOWED someone to rape me?

or...

If I forgot to set my house alarm and someone broke in and assaulted me, then I ALLOWED them to do so?

**************************************

Victim-blaming is likewise ABUSIVE. 

And here's some "boundaries for you":

I prefer that you no longer comment on my thread. I came here for support, and not to be attacked and blamed for someone's poor behavior.

If I CHOOSE to reconcile with him (and yes, we've recently had that discussion with a THERAPIST) then there are very real steps HE needs to take in order to address the issue. I likewise will work on mine.


Let's be done.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Good luck to you.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

It's not victim-blaming though, it's empowerment. You can actively not allow him to abuse you. It's not the same as rape or burglery, unless you're inviting the rapist/burgler into your home day after day thinking today is the day they're not going to rape/burglarize you. Even then, it's not your _fault _that it happened; they're still the rapists/burglers. But you have the power to end it.

Sometimes exercising that power means cutting a person out of your life for good. Sometimes they'll stop when you put up a boundary short of that. It's great that you're working with a therapist to set up the conditions under which your H can return. 

Telling your H that you won't allow him to treat you badly puts the power into your hands. You can't control him or what he says and does, but you can control what and who you allow in your presence. Then he can choose if he wants to continue to be an abusive jerk or do the hard work of learning new ways to be (hard and unlikely, but that's out of your control anyway).


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

northernlights said:


> It's not victim-blaming though, it's empowerment. You can actively not allow him to abuse you. It's not the same as rape or burglery, unless you're inviting the rapist/burgler into your home day after day thinking today is the day they're not going to rape/burglarize you. Even then, it's not your _fault _that it happened; they're still the rapists/burglers. But you have the power to end it.
> 
> Sometimes exercising that power means cutting a person out of your life for good. Sometimes they'll stop when you put up a boundary short of that. It's great that you're working with a therapist to set up the conditions under which your H can return.
> 
> Telling your H that you won't allow him to treat you badly puts the power into your hands. You can't control him or what he says and does, but you can control what and who you allow in your presence. Then he can choose if he wants to continue to be an abusive jerk or do the hard work of learning new ways to be (hard and unlikely, but that's out of your control anyway).


Thank you .

I get the idea of empowerment. It's just very difficult to be told that I'm ALLOWING poor treatment. I get it.

Ironcially, I've decided to reconcile. BUT...only if certain conditions are met. I don't want my kids to grow up with divorce, yet I DON'T WANT TO BE HURT anymore, either.

I'm scared....

Thank you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

persephone71 said:


> Thank you .
> 
> I get the idea of empowerment. It's just very difficult to be told that I'm ALLOWING poor treatment. I get it.
> 
> ...



You will need this empowerment if you're to successfully reconcile, otherwise he will revert back to bully behavior. And please do not make your decision solely because you don't want your kids to grow up with divorce, do it because you still love the guy and really think you can have a successful marriage with him or your kids will not benefit. Remember that you do have more power then you think, so use it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

persephone71 said:


> I get the idea of empowerment. It's just very difficult to be told that I'm ALLOWING poor treatment. I get it.
> .


I know, it feels like a kick when you're already down.

Good luck with reconciliation. My H moved back in a few months ago. I wish he'd waited and taken advantage of the therapy resources that are available where he was, but at that point I was done making demands on him and using 100% of my energy to get stronger myself. It's a lot. 

I have to run. My wonderful H just threw the ball for the dog and it landed in my veggie garden. He says there's some damage but he doesn't know which plants are which and he he made no effort to fix the damage. So there I go, all I can control is what I do! 

How do you set a boundary about fixing the garden when it gets dug up on his watch? Can I call Conrad back in here?


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> You will need this empowerment if you're to successfully reconcile, otherwise he will revert back to bully behavior. And please do not make your decision solely because you don't want your kids to grow up with divorce, do it because you still love the guy and really think you can have a successful marriage with him or your kids will not benefit. Remember that you do have more power then you think, so use it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Take it slow.

Stay calm. Don't escalate yourself, or him. Odds are you know full well, when a 'blowout' is starting to stir up. 

Make a rule, the two of you. Don't feed the blowout. Diffuse it, walk away, scream a safe word, tell a bad joke, doesn't matter.

If either or both of you can't get to a place of respecting at least that ... then reevaluate what exactly it is you are trying to save.


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## persephone71 (May 21, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Take it slow.
> 
> Stay calm. Don't escalate yourself, or him. Odds are you know full well, when a 'blowout' is starting to stir up.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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