# How do I leave...or do I?



## unknowing (Mar 5, 2014)

How do you leave a man who is a manipulative, lying, insecure, possessive, drug addict who threatens suicide and knows how to make you feel sorry for him?
On top of all this (as crazy as it sounds) I love him very much and dont want to see anything bad happen to him.
He doesnt want a divorce but it doesnt look like he is ever going to change and I am not happy anymore.
This is a person that needs help, and has tried counseling, rehab, etc. I dont know how to help him. I dont want to "abandon" him. 
Some days I cant see my life without him and other days I want to walk away and never look back, but I dont know how to leave. I guess I am afraid.
What do I do??


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Loyalty.....Loyalty.......Loyalty......A good woman does not leave her man in his time of need......Make a plan and insist he follow it with you.


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## unknowing (Mar 5, 2014)

You are right, but I have been living this for about 12 years. How long do I stick it out hoping for a change?


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## unknowing (Mar 5, 2014)

As far as making a plan, we have done that many times. He will agree to everything but wont stick to it. He just lies about everything.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Betrayedone said:


> Loyalty.....Loyalty.......Loyalty......A good woman does not leave her man in his time of need......Make a plan and insist he follow it with you.


As far as we know, she has done everything she can. The best she can do is leave. It will be hard for her, but I would say sticking with a druggie for twelve years is loyal.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Make your exit plan - where to live, financial preparations, etc. How often does he hit a low and feel suicidal? If it's regular, next time call 911 and have him involuntarily commited - say he's threatening suicide and you also feel unsafe. Move out then. You can visit him and support him as long as he is getting help, but do NOT let him know where you are living, and be careful about being alone with him for your own safety.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

12 years of it?

UHaul


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

Betrayedone said:


> Loyalty.....Loyalty.......Loyalty......A good woman does not leave her man in his time of need......Make a plan and insist he follow it with you.


Sounds like she has made a plan. She's been there dealing for a long time.

And, when does loyalty morph to co-dependence?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

mountain_minds said:


> Sounds like she has made a plan. She's been there dealing for a long time.
> 
> And, *when does loyalty morph to co-dependence*?


Too late! You are TOTALLY co-dependent, unknowing!

Please get this book NOW...honestly, it's the bible for co-dependent people! Buy it, borrow it from the library, download it as an e-book.

"Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Read it, WRITE DOWN the answers to the questions at the END of every single chapter. You *will* have an A-HA moment!

You can EASILY finish the book (use it like a workbook) in a week or a week and a half. It will do you WORLDS of good. If you face YOUR problems (too nice, try to make everyone happy, afraid of being labeled 'not nice' a 'bad guy' whatever) you CAN realize why YOU are so messed up that you've accepted these crumbs of a life for 12 years.

PLEASE get healthy and whole yourself FIRST.

Only THEN will you be able to make the best decisions for yourself, be able to see what (if any help) will be available for your h, be able to decide if this is a relationship that helps YOU be your best self and have a happy, healthy future.

There are some people on here who think you should stay in a cr*ppy relationship FOREVER....no matter what. I am NOT one of them!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

unknowing said:


> How do you leave a man who is a manipulative, lying, insecure, possessive, drug addict who threatens suicide and knows how to make you feel sorry for him?
> On top of all this (as crazy as it sounds) I love him very much and dont want to see anything bad happen to him.
> He doesnt want a divorce but it doesnt look like he is ever going to change and I am not happy anymore.
> This is a person that needs help, and has tried counseling, rehab, etc. I dont know how to help him. I dont want to "abandon" him.
> ...


If you dont change something, you are going to enable him to death. You CANT HELP HIM. Only HE can do that, and he has to want to. You are not responsible if he commits suicide. Like someone else mentioned, if he threatens, call for help. Thats all you can do, the rest is up to him. Is this seriously the way you want to live the next 30-40 years of your life?? You cant do it for him, so do for yourself.


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## mishu143 (Jun 20, 2011)

unknowing said:


> How do you leave a man who is a manipulative, lying, insecure, possessive, drug addict who threatens suicide and knows how to make you feel sorry for him?
> On top of all this (as crazy as it sounds) I love him very much and dont want to see anything bad happen to him.
> He doesnt want a divorce but it doesnt look like he is ever going to change and I am not happy anymore.
> This is a person that needs help, and has tried counseling, rehab, etc. I dont know how to help him. I dont want to "abandon" him.
> ...


I am going through your exact situation minus a few years... 8 to be exact.... Mine is also a recovering addict from way before we met but he's been pretty good about it....

I'm with you.... I love him and hate him all at the same time.... All because it ant to be with him and love him and I know he loves me but he can't show it when all he is doing is manipulating and lying every chance he gets.... Or being jealous and possessive....

I'm with everyone else too though, you have to take care of you! I know it is easier said than done, trust me I am in your exact shoes.... But I have two kids watching everything we do and I have to lead by example. Divorce was never an option for me until it became too much and my 7 yr old kid had to step in and say something that woke me up and hurt me to the core.... He felt he had to intervene in one of his dads interrogations of me and that really hurt me! My son felt he had to defend his mom and no child should ever have to deal with that garbage.... 

No one can tell you what to do.... Only you.... And as sorry and as pathetic as I feel for posting the same story over and ver again, I do it outta hope something will happen. But it won't, not unless they want to... And now that he knows I'm seriously leaving and getting my situation worked out, he is trying to prove that I'm leaving for nothing.... 

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he does change, but it hasn't happened in 8 years and it won't happen tommorrow.... I've come to terms with the fact that life will be hard for a while for me and the kids, but if he really wants to win me back, divorce or not, he will. I've heard of it happening a million times.... Ppl remarrying each other and the second time around it actually being a great marriage....

It may seem petty but its my hope that he will grow up and wake up to the woman he had next to him the whole time, imperfect, but loyal, and wanting nothing but the best for our family, not for myself! I pray that one day he will wake up and show me he is different and beg me to give him a real chance, and that we will date, and ,grow as friends and that this time he will propose to me on one knee with a nice ring, and give me the respect and honor I deserve.... 

But again it a dream and a prayer that I am trying to be realistic about...maybe it will never happen but maybe it will.... In the meantime, I have to care for myself so that my kids have the best mom possible!

Private message me whenever you want..... There is tons of support here and most of the advice is good.....that loyalty nonsense is that...nonsense, you can only be loyal to someone who is willing to give you the same in return.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Amen, mishu! Sorry you're going through it, too!


If nothing else, perhaps your h will wake up and be a MAN your children can be proud of. A man they will want to emulate (or a man like they will want to marry).

Best of luck to all of you!


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## unknowing (Mar 5, 2014)

Maybe someone can give me an opinion on this...Does he realize that he is being manipulative or is he really sincere with his promises but is not able to keep them due to his addiction.
Do people like this realize when they are manipulating?


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## unknowing (Mar 5, 2014)

I just found more lies. What is wrong with me? Why cant I leave this man, what is this hold he has on me? 
I keep reading different posts and telling myself my H is not like that or my situation is different. Maybe its just denial??? I dont know but I feel like I am going crazy with so many thoughts. How do I get away from this life?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

unknowing said:


> Maybe someone can give me an opinion on this...Does he realize that he is being manipulative or is he really sincere with his promises but is not able to keep them due to his addiction.
> Do people like this realize when they are manipulating?


 I have lived with women who diet. They will eat most of my meal and complain about how I wolf it down in front of them, they imagine I must have eaten all the icecream in the freezer even though I was not in the house, as they are dieting. They then have little rewards and wonder why their weight goes up. They are not lying, but they delude themselves.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

@unknowing, unfortunately, sometimes the root cause doesn't matter. Until your husband can admit he has a problem and seeks help for addiction, there is nothing you can do to affect his condition. You can only look out for you. Protect yourself. Don't let him guilt you into being his emotional diaper changer. If he threatens self-harm, call 911 and have him committed. The staff there are equipped to handle someone in that frame of mind. It may be the best thing you could do for him.


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## unknowing (Mar 5, 2014)

He is telling me that he has stopped the drug use and I can see he is going through withdrawals so maybe he is trying. Even so, I dont know how long it will last.

I know he has uncontrollable problems and he is working on them, but here I sit again with my stomach in knots. This is an every day thing now. Even if he cleans up I'm not sure I want to stay.

I have read codependent no more. It has opened my eyes to some things, but I still have trouble seeing myself walking out on him. I dont know what is wrong with me. Why am I so afraid? How do I overcome this fear and get on with my life?

I dont want to hurt him and I know that sounds crazy after all I have put up with from him. I dont want to abandon him when he needs me. I am afraid of what he will do when I leave. I dont know how to think of myself and my own happiness. Am I just trapped here for good? Is there anyone here who has experienced this and can give me some advice?


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## unknowing (Mar 5, 2014)

I am beginning to see personality changes in him. He can be really sweet for a while, then he gets very depressed, then he gets very angry and wants to know what I am doing behind his back, etc. Anyone ever experienced this?


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## myNW (Mar 15, 2014)

unknowing said:


> How do you leave a man who is a manipulative, lying, insecure, possessive, drug addict who threatens suicide and knows how to make you feel sorry for him?
> On top of all this (as crazy as it sounds) I love him very much and dont want to see anything bad happen to him.
> He doesnt want a divorce but it doesnt look like he is ever going to change and I am not happy anymore.
> This is a person that needs help, and has tried counseling, rehab, etc. I dont know how to help him. I dont want to "abandon" him.
> ...


Here is the thing that I will never understand. How many posts are there on this board talking about really good men who get left by their wives because she is bored or doesn't feel "in love " anymore or don't feel "special". Yet guys like this have wives that will stand by them no matter what.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hon, nothing is going to change until YOU do. Are you seeing a therapist? That's the first thing to do.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

unknowing said:


> I am beginning to see personality changes in him.


Unknowing, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., always being "The Victim" (blaming you for everything), emotional instability, verbal and physical abuse, low self esteem, very controlling behavior, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), suicide threats, irrational jealousy, and lack of impulse control (e.g., the drug abuse) -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Of course, you cannot diagnose your H, i.e., cannot determine whether he "has BPD." 

That is, you cannot determine whether his BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. I therefore recommend you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself _-- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you likely are dealing with. 

Until your H brings his drug abuse under control, however, it is unlikely a professional will be willing to render a formal diagnosis of BPD or any other personality disorder. The reason is that it will be unclear whether the flareup in BPD traits is a temporary problem caused by the drug abuse itself or, rather, is a lifetime problem that originated in early childhood. That is, it will be unclear whether the BPD traits are the *result* of the drug abuse or, instead, the *cause *of the drug abuse.

I note that there is a world of difference between _making a diagnosis_ (which is very difficult) and simply _spotting the warning signs_ for a disorder (which is not difficult). You are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD traits -- if you take time to learn what to look for -- because there is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, suicide threats, always being "The Victim," and the push-away/pull-back cycle. I caution that, if your H suffers a lifetime problem with BPD or another PD, you would have seen the warning signs starting about 12 years ago, right after the wedding. They would not lie hidden for many years and surfaced only recently.


> He can be really sweet for a while, then he gets very depressed, then he gets very angry and wants to know what I am doing behind his back, etc. Anyone ever experienced this?


Yes, I experienced it for 15 years while married to my BPDer exW. It is called "black-white thinking" or "splitting" and will be evident in rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you). It also will be evident in frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "you never..." and "you always...." Such B-W thinking can be caused by BPD, NPD (narcissism), or caused by the drug abuse itself. Hence, as I noted above, a professional likely would wait for the drug abuse to stop before determining whether BPD or NPD traits are lifetime problems.


> There is so much that is driving me *crazy*....I feel like I am going *crazy* with so many thoughts.


If you are living with a BPDer, "crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused spouse feel like she may be losing her mind. To a lesser extent, however, this feeling of craziness also is common in the spouses of NPDers and drug abusers (with or without a personality disorder).


> What is wrong with me? Why cant I leave? Why am I so afraid?


As many other TAM respondents have said, you almost certainly are an excessive caregiver, as I have been. Your problem is not wanting to help people but, rather, being willing to do so even when it is to your *great detriment *-- and even when it is *counterproductive*, as in the situation you are describing. Our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the people we already are). If you would like to read about how I dealt with a similar situation for 15 years, I suggest you read my posts in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Unknowing.


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## unknowing (Mar 5, 2014)

Uptown, we have actually been married over 20 years, but the drugs started about 12 years ago. He did not always act this way. I believe it is a reaction from the drugs. 
Thanks for your response. I look forward to reading your post.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

unknowing said:


> Uptown, we have actually been married over 20 years, but the drugs started about 12 years ago. He did not always act this way. I believe it is a reaction from the drugs.


That is encouraging information. In that case, you are not describing a PD like BPD. Personality disorders are lifetime conditions that do not disappear for 8 years and then surface only in the last 12 years of a 20-year marriage.


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