# They broke up!?!



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, I think I've got the last laugh!

My STBXH and his POSOW must have hit the skids, b/c they both have been very active on ******* in the last couple of days. (Neither of them have been online with ******* since they took their communication offline in mid-June.)

I texted my friend and told her, and she asked, "Does any of this change how you feel about things?"

I replied, "Nope. Though it does make me gleeful to think about her dumping his ass  " 

:rofl:

This seriously made my day.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How do you know that she dumped him?

Oh and I'll toast a drink to you on this one... it makes me happy when affairs fall apart like this. I wonder if it was worth all that they lost?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't KNOW that she was the dumper, but he seemed really keen on her. And until he left me, he's never been the dumper. She had "the hook-up" (able to score free box tix to any sporting event he wanted) and was going to pay for him to go to the Bahamas with her in December. He always wanted a cash cow.

So I give 80/20 odds that she dumped him. But even if he broke up with her, it proves him wrong. He said he thought he could be happy with her, and he chose the possibility of happiness with her over working on himself and working on our marriage.

So, either way, he can suck it


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well he has what he created. 

Remember that the best revenge is to live well.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Well he has what he created.
> 
> Remember that the best revenge is to live well.


I'm working on it! It's slow going, but I'm making progress


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## Juicy (Nov 15, 2011)

Haha that's so funny! These rebound relationships rarely last long anyway so it's only a matter of time . And good for you not feeling any different  just because his situation has changed you're not keeping yourself open as an option!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Great News !!!
VH


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Juicy said:


> Haha that's so funny! These rebound relationships rarely last long anyway so it's only a matter of time . And good for you not feeling any different  just because his situation has changed you're not keeping yourself open as an option!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know, I know! And he kept saying how great it was, that he was meeting her friends, that he thought he could be really happy with her, that they were starting to talk about the future, blah, blah, blah. But I knew it was going to fall apart. Good for her for getting out.

And good for me, too, for closing that door


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

VeryHurt said:


> Great News !!!
> VH


What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right, VH?


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

My ex ended up with someone who cheated on her. I told her when we first split that would happen as I would never do such thing.....I was basically telling her she does not know what she is walking away from......funny how karma works


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MSC71 said:


> My ex ended up with someone who cheated on her. I told her when we first split that would happen as I would never do such thing.....I was basically telling her she does not know what she is walking away from......funny how karma works



So true... I expect that he will end up spending many years ib short-term relationship after short-term relationship, never really grasping why they don't work out. He doesn't understand what he gave up when he decided he didn't want me anymore and stopped trying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

She does deserve a "thank you" for taking him off your hands, ya know?

You might not feel that way now, but you will in the not-too-distant future.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

ThreeStrikes said:


> She does deserve a "thank you" for taking him off your hands, ya know?
> 
> You might not feel that way now, but you will in the not-too-distant future.


Ha ha, I do -- thanks for that reminder!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> Can I tell you, this is so true what ThreeStrikes said. I was so sad when my ex did not run off with one of the moms at the school he was boinking or anyone else.
> 
> I had a dream, he would come to me, say I am with her and sorry, but I want a divorce. Then in my dream we would have had a normal divorce with 50/50 division, cordial hellos and good byes at drop off and I would be free!
> 
> ...


I think it's interesting/odd/funny that so many people can be so indecisive and act like they don't want to be with their partner, but they're also incapable of ending things cleanly. I'm going to have to file, even though my STBXH was the one to leave me, because I know he'll never go through with it. 

But I'm done and ready to move forward, so I'll do it.

And you're right - now I'm free to pursue a better future, because I'm not stuck with that guy. I agree wholeheartedly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, apparently they DIDN'T break up. They are going strong, and now going public with their love on Facebook.

I get to see pictures of him with his new, ugly girlfriend, doing all the fun and interesting things I always wanted to do together, except that he refused.

What a tool.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Sorry. 

He's a douche canoe.


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## Peeps678 (May 21, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> So, apparently they DIDN'T break up. They are going strong, and now going public with their love on Facebook.
> 
> I get to see pictures of him with his new, ugly girlfriend, doing all the fun and interesting things I always wanted to do together, except that he refused.
> 
> What a tool.


Makes you wonder why they both have been so busy and active on *******..... :scratchhead:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> Sorry.
> 
> He's a douche canoe.


He is! Luckily, my best friend is happy to tell me about the douchey things that he posts on FB, not that he and I aren't FB friends. Here's a gem:

"And that's why women are bloated, they hold in their farts."

I can't believe I actually married this guy.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Peeps678 said:


> Makes you wonder why they both have been so busy and active on *******..... :scratchhead:


My first thought is that they're looking for a third. According to her profile, she's up for that sort of thing (and she likes getting it on with girls, too), and it's something he's always wanted to do...

I would never even consider it, and he's trying all sorts of things now that he didn't like to do with me. Like actually having sex.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

LMAO.....I hope that third party works out for him. He must not read TAM much because that sitch usually implodes. 

Good to see you are not pining over him. Now quit getting the facebook updates.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> LMAO.....I hope that third party works out for him. He must not read TAM much because that sitch usually implodes.
> 
> Good to see you are not pining over him. Now quit getting the facebook updates.


Ha ha... I can't believe he thinks that he can satisfy two women at once. It's not going to turn out well if they're successful in finding a third.

I'm not pining over him... most of the time. I have that occasional twinge, but I remind myself that the person I miss wasn't real. And that the REAL person is an a*hole. The more I learn about the REAL him, the more I realize I dodged a bullet by getting out. 

He's her problem now. She can deal with his sh*t from now on.

Hmm... maybe I should call her to come get the rest of his crap from my apartment?

But what bugs me - and I know I shouldn't let it get to me, but it does - is that they don't have the decency to wait until after we're actually divorced to go flaunting their new, happy relationship all over Facebook. I mean, really, is that too much to ask? Apparently so, since it was too much to ask for him not to go f*cking other people when we were separated, the purpose of which (according to him, in MC) was to "work on ourselves to help the marriage."

He has no decency. No shred. Just like his father.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> But what bugs me - and I know I shouldn't let it get to me, but it does - is that they don't have the decency to wait until after we're actually divorced to go flaunting their new, happy relationship all over Facebook. I mean, really, is that too much to ask? Apparently so, since it was too much to ask for him not to go f*cking other people when we were separated, the purpose of which (according to him, in MC) was to "work on ourselves to help the marriage."
> 
> He has no decency. No shred. Just like his father.


Why would you expect decency now?

Cannot polish a turd.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Why would you expect decency now?
> 
> Cannot polish a turd.


I know... I KNOW! You're right, you're so right.

I just... I've always made a point to live my own life with decency, and to treat others with love and respect, and to be the bigger person. Do unto others and all that.

I've always made a point to surround myself with people like that, and so that's who he pretended to be to get me to like him, to love him. I guess I'm just having a hard time reconciling myself to the fact that he's not what I thought he was, that he's NOT a good guy, even though that's what he wants everyone else to believe. He's NOT. He's actually a horrible person.

It's really hard to un-learn a decade's worth of what you thought you knew about someone, especially when some of what you understand is accurate and some is not. Parsing through it over and over again, reminding myself that he's the kind of man who would pull this sh*t. And the disbelief that I could let someone do this to me, pull the wool over my eyes in this way.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> I don't KNOW that she was the dumper, but he seemed really keen on her. And until he left me, he's never been the dumper. She had "the hook-up" (able to score free box tix to any sporting event he wanted) and was going to pay for him to go to the Bahamas with her in December. He always wanted a cash cow.
> 
> So I give 80/20 odds that she dumped him. But even if he broke up with her, it proves him wrong. He said he thought he could be happy with her, and he chose the possibility of happiness with her over working on himself and working on our marriage.
> 
> So, either way, he can suck it



This is the fkg thing Fem. They choose the possibility against a bit of work at home in the devil you know instead. l will never get that and if they read any stats , they're taking a 10x gamble and throwing away everything they had to do it. 
l do not get it.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> It's really hard to un-learn a decade's worth of what you thought you knew about someone, especially when some of what you understand is accurate and some is not. Parsing through it over and over again, reminding myself that he's the kind of man who would pull this sh*t. And the disbelief that I could let someone do this to me, pull the wool over my eyes in this way.


These parts in particular are hard for me too.

Unlearn the emotions of the relationship. Reconciling the good stuff with the crap stuff. Realizing that some of the good stuff was lies. Realizing that the truth was there, but needed to be interpreted or seen for what it really is. 

Sorry.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> This is the fkg thing Fem. They choose the possibility against a bit of work at home in the devil you know instead. l will never get that and if they read any stats , they're taking a 10x gamble and throwing away everything they had to do it.
> l do not get it.


WH, I've thinking this too and was going to post on my thread or start a new one. But it's a small realization with big impact and Chuck mentioned it when I first got on TAM.

A lot of these cheaters and walkaways, or probably all, are looking for perfect. Their expectation is that they'll find something better or perfect for them and that's really immature. Mature love requires adjusting expectations, accepting someone with flaws and fantastic. People are allowed to walk when they don't want to deal with the flaws, but where, o where, are they going to find flawless?

They won't. They'll get in for a few years and leave the next relationship for the same reasons, expectations. I think this is due to missing things inside of them. If you can't accept your SO, flaws and all, and you're looking for perfect, you're looking for something outside, to make it easy for you to NOT deal with what's going on inside of yourself.

I can accept some flaws, bad behavior, etc. 

I hope to find someone(s) who can too.

Because, I'm not perfect, but I'm pretty [email protected] good.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> This is the fkg thing Fem. They choose the possibility against a bit of work at home in the devil you know instead. l will never get that and if they read any stats , they're taking a 10x gamble and throwing away everything they had to do it.
> l do not get it.


It makes no sense. And he rushed into this new relationship without doing any work on himself. In August, when we talked, I asked him how much of his adult life he had spent single, as in what was the longest time period he'd ever been single. And he responded, "Well, the four months since we separated before I started seeing POSOW."

(It was three months, not four, and this totally ignores the fact that we were supposed to be dating one another, not other people, but I digress...)

So clearly, he's jumped into a relationship without any self-examination or working on any of his issues. So he's going to make the same mistakes with this woman, as he will do with whomever comes after her, ad nauseum.

Instead of choosing what could have been a healthy, life-long relationship - with a lot of work, of course - he's condemning himself to a lifetime of repeating the same miserable, pathetic cycle.

But whatever - not my problem. He can go f*ck a duck for all I care.

I, meanwhile, will be happy and will make my own path and life for myself. If I meet someone else, fall in love, even - gasp! - get married, great; if I don't, I'll still be happy. Because I'm growing. I'm making positive changes. I'm evolving.

He, on the other hand, is a dead branch on the phylogenetic tree.

So, as I said before, he can suck it.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> WH, I've thinking this too and was going to post on my thread or start a new one. But it's a small realization with big impact and Chuck mentioned it when I first got on TAM.
> 
> A lot of these cheaters and walkaways, or probably all, are looking for perfect. Their expectation is that they'll find something better or perfect for them and that's really immature. Mature love requires adjusting expectations, accepting someone with flaws and fantastic. People are allowed to walk when they don't want to deal with the flaws, but where, o where, are they going to find flawless?
> 
> ...


Ding ding ding!

My STBXH is looking for his Manic Pixie Dream Girl:
The Real-World Consequences of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl Cliché - Hugo Schwyzer - The Atlantic

He wants someone who will make him happy (happily-ever-after happy), who will tap him with her magic wand, and all of a sudden he will no longer have any cares in the world, and will live the rest of his life in a state of bliss. Because he doesn't know how to find happiness within himself.

Which is quite sad, really.

If he wasn't such an ass-hat I might feel sorry for him.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

But angstire, you and I have the better end of the deal, because we're not living in some fantasy land. At least we have some shot of finding a lasting, fulfilling relationship, because we're realistic about what we can expect and what we'll need to work at. Our STBXs will never be happy, no matter how many times they rotate out a new partner.

EDIT: And we've learned from our experiences. They never do.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> He, on the other hand, is a dead branch on the phylogenetic tree.


This is full of awesome. thank you.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> These parts in particular are hard for me too.
> 
> Unlearn the emotions of the relationship. Reconciling the good stuff with the crap stuff. Realizing that some of the good stuff was lies. Realizing that the truth was there, but needed to be interpreted or seen for what it really is.
> 
> Sorry.


It's just something I have to work through. 

I've always been an over-thinker. Up until maybe 5-6 yrs ago, I was still re-playing events from my EARLY CHILDHOOD in my head, wondering if I could have done something differently to change the outcome of certain events. 

It's taken a lot of work on my part, but I've learned to let go of things. More recent events, they may be a little too fresh - but I'm working through it. And when I start to re-play things, I just have to find something else to distract my brain. Let my subconscious deal with it through dreams at night, maybe?

The therapist I was seeing in the spring kept wanting to do EMDR with me, and I was a little skeptical, so we never tried it. She moved to Vegas, but before she moved she offered to refer me to someone else, even though she didn't think I needed to see a therapist at all. (This was before all the douchbaggery came to light.) I'm thinking that it wouldn't be a bad idea to go back to the counseling center to try and see someone else. Maybe that EMDR thing could help with this.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> This is full of awesome. thank you.


You're welcome! I thought it was pretty clever 

If I'm going to b*tch about my sitch, I might as well be awesome and funny while I'm doing it


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Ding ding ding!
> 
> My STBXH is looking for his Manic Pixie Dream Girl:
> The Real-World Consequences of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl Cliché - Hugo Schwyzer - The Atlantic
> ...


Nice article, this cliche is out there, I just hadn't named it.

Thanks.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> But angstire, you and I have the better end of the deal, because we're not living in some fantasy land. At least we have some shot of finding a lasting, fulfilling relationship, because we're realistic about what we can expect and what we'll need to work at. Our STBXs will never be happy, no matter how many times they rotate out a new partner.
> 
> EDIT: And we've learned from our experiences. They never do.


Yes, I know this. 

However, even as I know it, it still hurts. I was riding my bike today and after listening to news of the shutdown, Egypt, Syria and Kenya (fun stuff), my mind strayed to the first fight I had with stbxw and what an a$$hole I was. And today, how I think/hope/know I would disengage from my bad behavior and just tell her, "it's not cool for you to flirt with my friend and if you're going to do that, there's not much room left for you and me." And then let her decide what happened next. Instead I shouted at her until she cried.

As I thought about this, I thought about how differently I see things now and how it's too bad she couldn't take advantage of the changes in me improving myself. 

And then I thought about how it's a pointless exercise, because unless we both decided to change after learning about our selves at precisely the same moment, my change 8 years ago would have split us up earlier, rather than saved our relationship.

So, I am happy that I've learned, as you are too, and my next relationships will be better ones because of my change. But, it's still sad to see my stbxw and your stbxh continue to look for perfect and float thru life. They can't take advantage of our change, because they don't even know what they're doing isn't working. The result of blaming externals for internal pain.

Sad for them and somewhat sad for us to watch. At least we've gained the experience to improve and recognized it for what it is.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> Yes, I know this.
> 
> However, even as I know it, it still hurts.


Yeah, I'm with you on this. And from a logical standpoint, the pain doesn't entirely make sense. It makes me wonder, why is it so easy for him to just toss me aside like yesterday's news and move on to the next person, as if the decade we spent together never mattered? Why, if logically I understand that this split is the best thing for me, does it hurt so much? It's slowly hurting less over time, but it still hurts, and I know I'm going to carry this around with me forever in some form or another, even though I get the impression that he's already completely forgotten that I even exist.

The best I can figure goes back to the evolution thing, but a little more of Malsow's hierarchy of needs (Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). I've reached the top level of Maslow's pyramid, and I've been there for a long time, but he can't even break through to the third level; so I don't think he's even emotionally or psychologically capable of experiencing all of this and understanding the complexity of our situation the way that I do. This is also the reason why he won't deal with any of his problems, etc, etc. It really explains so much of his behavior.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Well, we feel hurt because we wanted to work on it and saw value in being with them. That's part of being ready for mature love, or being self-actualized or whatever.

The toss aside is interesting, because I wonder that too. How can they do that and feel nothing or very little, compared to what we feel? Part of it is that they detached emotionally a long time ago and we're playing catch up. Part of it is that they're not in touch with their actual feelings and they're chasing something that isn't real and they won't attain. The hunt for perfect is what they want and that's where they're getting their emotional fix.

Dealing with any problems would mean he could have dealt with your relationship problems. He's not dealing because it's easier to blame externals and continue to run away.


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## woosaa (Jul 9, 2013)

The last few points you guys have made is something that has bothered me as well. I hold myself and others to a high standard so I usually expect people to admit their faults or undo their wrongs. My wife left and seems to be moving along just fine. We were about to reconcile, but I did call it off (too many triggers and not enough heavy lifting from her). She tells me she will wait and then next day she is calling me asking about her future (job choices which showed me she is protecting her single life).

I have gone 180 again, but she does the same. It has been a couple months since the first time I was 180 and I am doing better this time, but man...I would think someone that wanted me back "so bad" would be calling me often to fix it. This is not the case and I have to tell myself it is because of her emotional immaturity. I did have my first counseling session and it helped me see that if she doesn't change then nothing will change (parents are enablers). Right now I am using counseling to get rid of triggers and just move on. Is it weird that my fear, but also my want is to finish these sessions and if she were to want me back I will clearly be able to say no?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> Well, we feel hurt because we wanted to work on it and saw value in being with them. That's part of being ready for mature love, or being self-actualized or whatever.
> 
> The toss aside is interesting, because I wonder that too. How can they do that and feel nothing or very little, compared to what we feel? Part of it is that they detached emotionally a long time ago and we're playing catch up. *Part of it is that they're not in touch with their actual feelings and they're chasing something that isn't real and they won't attain. The hunt for perfect is what they want and that's where they're getting their emotional fix.
> *


This is what I was getting at with Maslow's hierarchy - I just didn't explain it well. I sometimes make leaps in logic when attempting to explain my thoughts.  



> Dealing with any problems would mean he could have dealth with your relationship problems. *He's not dealing because it's easier to blame externals and continue to run away.*


Yup, that sounds about right.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

FeministInPink, when we are rejected, we have a tendency to try and make sense out of what happened; to explain logically to ourselves what went wrong or try and pinpoint the cause. I've always been one to say that the "why something was done" is just important as "what was done". But I'm finding that sometimes, you just have to say enough is enough. I don't care why you rejected me, or what you expected to happen, but _I do not accept your behaviour_. It's a boundry, and if you set it, set it with conviction and don't apologize.

He decided to go out and date; there are others on this board who did as well in the same circumstance. They felt they were justified, I'm not to say they were or were not. To accept this the ex's values don't line up with yours; and _to accept that your boundries are yours and that it's okay to have them_. Who cares what his issues are, he has to figure them out for himself. You need to figure out what part of the problems were your's and how you want to change yourself to prevent the same thing from happening in the future. 

Cheers,
-M


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> I think it's interesting/odd/funny that so many people can be so indecisive and act like they don't want to be with their partner, but they're also incapable of ending things cleanly. I'm going to have to file, even though my STBXH was the one to leave me, because I know he'll never go through with it.
> 
> But I'm done and ready to move forward, so I'll do it.
> 
> ...





FeministInPink said:


> I get to see pictures of him with his new, ugly girlfriend, doing all the fun and interesting things I always wanted to do together, except that he refused.
> 
> What a tool.





FeministInPink said:


> I know... I KNOW! You're right, you're so right.
> 
> I just... I've always made a point to live my own life with decency, and to treat others with love and respect, and to be the bigger person. Do unto others and all that.
> 
> ...


This sounds so much like my story, too, FiP, and many, many others here. I think it's a personality type that either men or women can have. There are so many stories with these same elements here on TAM that it's become almost its own cliche. And there are many of us who respond and feel the same way. I wonder if there's something about _our_ personalities that ended us up with people like our exes in the first place. I know I saw things in my own past that helped me make sense of how I ended up with someone like Chinless. And that's why I did a ton of therapy, self-help books, introspection, journaling, TAM'ing, etc., before I even wanted to get into dating again. 

I want to break out of that script.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

woosaa said:


> Is it weird that my fear, but also my want is to finish these sessions and if she were to want me back I will clearly be able to say no?


I don't think that's strange at all. As time progresses, and as your grow and work on yourself, it will become less nebulous. We're all working for that right now.

Part of me wants to get strong, and then have my STBXH come crawling back so I can crush him like a bug.

(Sorry guys, I'm having some mean anger issues today. I'll get over it soon enough.)

Most of the time, that sentence actually reads, "I want to get strong, grow, become a better me, and live an intentional life according to my beliefs, values, and goals."

But there's another part of me that's scared of a future, of a life without him, even though I know that is what's best for me. This part of me gets smaller as time goes by, while the (non-angry version of the) former becomes clearer and stronger and every day. 

I just have to keep pushing through until that (non-angry version of the) former version of me is the only one I hear. How long will it take? I don't know. But I know it won't be forever.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> This sounds so much like my story, too, FiP, and many, many others here. I think it's a personality type that either men or women can have. There are so many stories with these same elements here on TAM that it's become almost its own cliche. And there are many of us who respond and feel the same way. I wonder if there's something about _our_ personalities that ended us up with people like our exes in the first place. I know I saw things in my own past that helped me make sense of how I ended up with someone like Chinless. And that's why I did a ton of therapy, self-help books, introspection, journaling, TAM'ing, etc., before I even wanted to get into dating again.
> 
> I want to break out of that script.


One of the things I was able to work out with my therapist (before she moved to Vegas!) was how I ended up with a guy like my STBXH in the first place. I've moved past a lot of that stuff, but I'm not beyond continuing to learn and educate myself. Any specific books you recommend?


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## woosaa (Jul 9, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> I don't think that's strange at all. As time progresses, and as your grow and work on yourself, it will become less nebulous. We're all working for that right now.
> 
> Part of me wants to get strong, and then have my STBXH come crawling back so I can crush him like a bug.
> 
> ...


Yeah this def hit it for me. After opening up to her I realized I had so many triggers and would get so angry. This is when I called it off and started counseling to work on forgiving her and just moving on. I am less angry when I do not talk to her, but like you said want to stick it to her in some way. But my success I want for me and not to show her up (easier said then done).


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Morgiana said:


> FeministInPink, when we are rejected, we have a tendency to try and make sense out of what happened; to explain logically to ourselves what went wrong or try and pinpoint the cause. I've always been one to say that the "why something was done" is just important as "what was done". But I'm finding that sometimes, you just have to say enough is enough. *I don't care why you rejected me, or what you expected to happen, but _I do not accept your behaviour_*. It's a boundry, and if you set it, set it with conviction and don't apologize.
> 
> He decided to go out and date; there are others on this board who did as well in the same circumstance. They felt they were justified, I'm not to say they were or were not. To accept this the ex's values don't line up with yours; and _to accept that your boundries are yours and that it's okay to have them_. Who cares what his issues are, he has to figure them out for himself. You need to figure out what part of the problems were your's and how you want to change yourself to prevent the same thing from happening in the future.
> 
> ...


I like this. So frequently people are told they have to loosen up, or get over themselves; my mom frequently told me that I needed to lower my expectations of other people. No one ever says, "It's OK to have a certain set of standards." But to tell me to own my boundaries and to respect them? I don't know if anyone's ever said that to me. So thanks.

Mind = blown.

Funny thing about our values clearly not lining up... one of the things that I liked about him from the beginning, one of the first things that caught my attention, was how his values lined up so well with mine. But is was all lies, and honesty is the traits I value above all others. Hmm...


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

woosaa said:


> Yeah this def hit it for me. After opening up to her I realized I had so many triggers and would get so angry. This is when I called it off and started counseling to work on forgiving her and just moving on. I am less angry when I do not talk to her, but like you said want to stick it to her in some way. But my success I want for me and not to show her up (easier said then done).


My tendency towards spite is usually fleeting - but I can be competitive, so it does creep in occasionally. I do my best to keep it in check


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

woosaa said:


> The last few points you guys have made is something that has bothered me as well. I hold myself and others to a high standard so I usually expect people to admit their faults or undo their wrongs.


Hey Woosaa, one thing that my IC and others in my life have said is that expecting her to think like me, react like me, etc. is not recognizing her different point of view. That's not to say her POV is correct, but I'm expecting her to see things my way and that's not happened before, now or probably ever.

I struggle with this too. Why would she leave me? Why can't she not be open to my work and work on herself? I don't know why not. Doesn't make sense to me. But, that's what she's choosing to do and I can't change it. 

If I go thru this process, it helps reconcile that she doesn't see it my way. I still leap right into not understanding sometimes though.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> I just have to keep pushing through until that (non-angry version of the) former version of me is the only one I hear. How long will it take? I don't know. But I know it won't be forever.


I'm sure she pops her head up more often each week than the week prior. :smthumbup:


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

A good general break-up book is 

Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends, 3rd Edition (Rebuilding Books; For Divorce and Beyond): Bruce Fisher: 9781886230699: Amazon.com: Books

I'd also look at Patricia Evans' and Beverly Engels' books for recovering from abusive relationships. Both deal with how to set your own boundaries for the future, and how to recognize red flags. To that end, another one I liked was:

How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved: M.A. Sandra L. Brown: 9780897934473: Amazon.com: Books

This book outlines different patterns of behavior in personalities with whom you do NOT want to get involved.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Funny thing about our values clearly not lining up... one of the things that I liked about him from the beginning, one of the first things that caught my attention, was how his values lined up so well with mine. But is was all lies, and honesty is the traits I value above all others. Hmm...


Mirroring. They do this to real us in, so they can use for their emotional fixes and as emotional punching bags later.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

It's a classic technique for abusers. They become who they think we want, and as angstire said, it's often someone like ourselves. So they become our mirror. If it's accompanied by lots of romance, sweeping-off-the-feet behavior, nobody loves you like me, etc., etc., that crosses into 'love bombing.' I got that, too.  But I had to realize that I was pretty ripe for all of that stuff, and the way I was at the time, I had a pretty minute chance of actually being in a healthy relationship.  

Luckily, I'm not that same person now. Boundaries are very important to me, as is speaking my feelings. I simply will not walk on eggshells again.


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## woosaa (Jul 9, 2013)

Lowering my expectations and realizing my ex doesnt think like me does def help. I cannot change her and what she does. The mirroring effect is certainly her and even now as she moved on she took all my interest such as crossfit, baseball games with friends etc. It also took me a while to learn not to be cold but just keep it short and about our daughter. I still wonder most days why she does not realize the pain she ended up causing. Here is a link I had sent her but asked for no response, but essentially it describes my feelings. 

Infidelity causes severe trauma, but it's not your fault
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Yeah see a lot say don't think about this, don't think about them , they aren't your problem now , you can't control what they do from here. 
But yep , l know that but for me figuring it all out is for me , no one else.
l know for me , within myself , that when l have worked through everything that's happened , l will be in a much better place and have some closure , for me. And that's what l want to move on.

People often think it's about her but it's about me .


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

And just imagine , if most x's worked this , themselves , issues , through properly , they would go onto happy healthy lives and marriages , their old marriage, family.

So l say work away guys and gals and by all means , figure out whatever the hell we need to :smthumbup:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> A good general break-up book is
> 
> Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends, 3rd Edition (Rebuilding Books; For Divorce and Beyond): Bruce Fisher: 9781886230699: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> ...



Thanks, Angelpixie - I'm going to check these out.

Initially, I looked for/read some books teying to understand his behavior, but I've come to realize that it's more important to understand my own behavior so I can make better choices mocing forward - and because my understanding of him isn't really important at all, since I can't do anything about who he is. Very early in this process, I thought if I could better understand him, I would be better able to engage with him, and that way improve our relationship. I know now that wasn't our problem, and that those efforts would be futile. Since I realized that, I've been focusing on myself and how I can better prepare for my future without him, and that's been much more productive 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FIP, I think working on yourself is paramount; it's all you can control, so the most efficient use of energy is to work on you.

However, there is something to figuring out what we can about our exes and why they think they left, fell out of love, whatever. This is mostly useful to understand our part in the failure and where the line is between what we actually could do better and what they blameshifted onto us as they left. 

I don't spend all of my time trying to understand her reasons for leaving, but it does help to reconcile her version of events with my biased view of the "truth".


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

This is good, angstire, as long as we realize that their reasons are also biased. Because of how lousy I felt about myself for so long, I bought into everything thing he told me was wrong with me. And that was the basis of my 'taking responsibility for my part in things' piece. To my continuing surprise, I'll come across things even now that show me just how wrong he was about me, and how I forgot objective truths about events or things I did or didn't do, because I was trying to be 'fair' and see both sides. 

So, just a word of warning that many times the WS does a lot of history-changing to justify leaving, and it might take some time and distance before we can make an accurate assessment of blame and fault.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Yeah , tell you from everything l hear , l think l'm one of the lucky ones because l do know everything that happened with us at least . All the cause and effects , lead ups. It's taken a long time to understand it and get all the pieces though.
ln a way it's just as bad knowing though because the solutions for us anyway , were so simple , we would've been fine with some work, next corner .
l never will understand the giving up , walk away though.


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## woosaa (Jul 9, 2013)

I was stuck on pondering why my wife left instead of working on myself for a couple weeks. I do believe there are subtle changes that I need to work on myself, but essentially I am taking my situation as a way to become stronger and in the end find someone who is worth my love.

The way my wife left for a single life and without caring about our daughter too much is her immaturity and as you guys mentioned searching for a perfect life because she is not in tune with her emotions. 

I do know I have the ability to achieve many goals without her, but def need to finish counseling and take it slow in order to get there. This is the part that kills me. I just hate that someone could set me back and cause unnecessary pain. But I do think many of the issues are hers, and she did try some history changing, but it is on her. Now I just control myself (not always easy doing this).


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> This is good, angstire, as long as we realize that their reasons are also biased. Because of how lousy I felt about myself for so long, I bought into everything thing he told me was wrong with me. And that was the basis of my 'taking responsibility for my part in things' piece. To my continuing surprise, I'll come across things even now that show me just how wrong he was about me, and how I forgot objective truths about events or things I did or didn't do, because I was trying to be 'fair' and see both sides.
> 
> So, just a word of warning that many times the WS does a lot of history-changing to justify leaving, and it might take some time and distance before we can make an accurate assessment of blame and fault.



Fore sure Angel and new realizations just keep on comin.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> Yeah see a lot say don't think about this, don't think about them , they aren't your problem now , you can't control what they do from here.
> But yep , l know that but for me figuring it all out is for me , no one else.
> l know for me , within myself , that when l have worked through everything that's happened , l will be in a much better place and have some closure , for me. And that's what l want to move on.
> 
> People often think it's about her but it's about me .


That's how I feel, Whitehawk. I'm spending a lot of time working on me, but I do also spend some time b*tching about my STBXH. For me, the *****ing sessions are more about reminding myself (and reinforcing) that I'm better off without him, and that the split is best for me. It's about breaking the brainwashing that was our relationship.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

angelpixie said:


> This is good, angstire, as long as we realize that their reasons are also biased. Because of how lousy I felt about myself for so long, I bought into everything thing he told me was wrong with me. And that was the basis of my 'taking responsibility for my part in things' piece. To my continuing surprise, I'll come across things even now that show me just how wrong he was about me, and how I forgot objective truths about events or things I did or didn't do, because I was trying to be 'fair' and see both sides.
> 
> So, just a word of warning that many times the WS does a lot of history-changing to justify leaving, and it might take some time and distance before we can make an accurate assessment of blame and fault.


Angel, I didn't make my point as clearly as I would like, but you helped me.

My point is they unloaded so much toxic garbage on us and in an effort to be fair, see their side, etc. we bought it all (or at least I did). I look back now and try to see around the toxic sludge and see the "truth" in the middle. I realize the truth is still colored by my bias, but I try to separate what I did poorly in response to what she did poorly for two reasons. To understand and gain some comfort on why she left and to understand what I truly did that was sh!tty. 

If I believed her version of events, she was the loving wife that tried really hard, but I was just a needy, insecure ahole that wouldn't stop screwing her even though she told me too.

I was an ahole when we fought, a few times, but all the rest of this garbage is no where near the "truth". She rewrote history and blameshifted to make it easy for her to leave me and persuade me that I was the reason, again to make it easy to leave.

What I've gained has primarily been working on myself, but some of the guideposts on what I REALLY need to work on have come from parsing the truth out of what she said when she left.

I am in no way saying that our horrible exes are not lying liars who lied to make themselves feel good about leaving and try to make us feel like poop and be apologetic, to feed their sense of being victims.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> Hey Woosaa, one thing that my IC and others in my life have said is that expecting her to think like me, react like me, etc. is not recognizing her different point of view. That's not to say her POV is correct, but I'm expecting her to see things my way and that's not happened before, now or probably ever.
> 
> I struggle with this too. Why would she leave me? Why can't she not be open to my work and work on herself? I don't know why not. Doesn't make sense to me. But, that's what she's choosing to do and I can't change it.
> 
> If I go thru this process, it helps reconcile that she doesn't see it my way. I still leap right into not understanding sometimes though.


I'm a little of the opposite, or I was. I spent the majority of my time, up until the last several months, focusing SO MUCH on his POV and HIS hurt and HIS suffering, that it wasn't until my former IC and my friends started to say, "Wait, FIP -- that's all well and good, but what about YOU? He's treated you like sh*t for a really long time, and you're concerned about how he feels? How this is affecting him? Focus on YOU." I finally started listening to them, thank goodness.



angstire said:


> I'm sure she pops her head up more often each week than the week prior. :smthumbup:


Yes, she does - sometimes in subconscious ways, sometimes in conscious ways.

One subconscious way -- I think I may have already posted about this, but I'm going to repeat myself anyway -- is like last week: one of my goals in living an intentional life is making better choices for myself regarding food. (This is something I have struggled with my entire life, primarily because I was never taught good eating habits/proper nutrition at home. Once those neural pathways are set - and they are set early - they can be very difficult to re-route.) 

So I've been making a conscious effort to make better food choices, and it can be a REAL struggle for me. The internal, mental tug-o-war that goes on when deciding what to eat is a massive mental conflict, like an epic battle of good and evil wills, and I fight it our nearly every mealtime, so multiple times a day. Trying to decide what to eat at a restaurant is torture. (My STBXH would make fun of me for ordering the same thing when I we went to one of our "regular" restaurants, but I did it to avoid that internal struggle, or when I would find a menu online and decide what to order at a new place before we got there. I did it to avoid the anxiety of sitting there and having this internal debate, lest I make myself miserable/guilty for the rest of the evening.)

ANYWAY... so last week, I went to the cafeteria across the street from my office to get lunch. My mind was on some project, and I wasn't really paying attention -- but when I got the the cashier, I looked down to see what I had chosen, and it was all super-healthy and responsible! And I thought to myself, "Look at you, making your good choices! Nice job, FIP."


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

angstire said:


> Hey Woosaa, one thing that my IC and others in my life have said is that expecting her to think like me, react like me, etc. is not recognizing her different point of view. That's not to say her POV is correct, but I'm expecting her to see things my way and that's not happened before, now or probably ever.
> 
> I struggle with this too. Why would she leave me? Why can't she not be open to my work and work on herself? I don't know why not. Doesn't make sense to me. But, that's what she's choosing to do and I can't change it.
> .



Yeah same Angs. We weren't a bad couple hell most people envied the hell out of us , we just got very effed up and [email protected] happened . But there were cause and reasons for everything and none of them really , were so much about us as such anyway, not originally .
One was willing to work and round that corner so this l will never get but all that had to be done was for the other to be willing . That was basically it with us , all we needed was a chance to do that.
When it's so serious , so much on the line , why can't two people just agree on that and move on. But what - this , still seems insane !


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> This is good, angstire, as long as we realize that their reasons are also biased. *Because of how lousy I felt about myself for so long, I bought into everything thing he told me was wrong with me. And that was the basis of my 'taking responsibility for my part in things' piece.* To my continuing surprise, I'll come across things even now that show me just how wrong he was about me, and how I forgot objective truths about events or things I did or didn't do, because I was trying to be 'fair' and see both sides.
> 
> So, just a word of warning that *many times the WS does a lot of history-changing to justify leaving*, and it might take some time and distance before we can make an accurate assessment of blame and fault.


Oh, so many similarities. Prior to his leaving, my STBXH never vocally belittled me to my face, but he certainly did it with his actions; after he moved out he was certainly belittling me to other people behind my back and doing so much history-rewriting to justify his hound-dogging and getting together with the POSOW.

Once again -- reminds me of how lucky I am to be rid of him. The blinders are long gone.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> What I've gained has primarily been working on myself, but some of the guideposts on what I REALLY need to work on have come from parsing the truth out of what she said when she left.


That's what I've been trying to do - but when your STBXH has been lying to you for (literally) the entire relationship, it's really hard to figure out which is truth and which is lies.

Even at the very end, now, when he's supposedly being honest with me, I still can't tell what's truth and what's lies. (Refusing to talk to him helps, since there's nothing to separate out, if you're not talking.)


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

woosaa said:


> Lowering my expectations and realizing my ex doesnt think like me does def help. I cannot change her and what she does. The mirroring effect is certainly her and even now as she moved on she took all my interest such as crossfit, baseball games with friends etc. It also took me a while to learn not to be cold but just keep it short and about our daughter. I still wonder most days why she does not realize the pain she ended up causing. Here is a link I had sent her but asked for no response, but essentially it describes my feelings.
> 
> Infidelity causes severe trauma, but it's not your fault
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for this -- I'm still reading through it, but I'm finding it helpful, and describes much of what I'm going through/feeling. I've had a difficult time explaining to people - who don't know it/haven't been through it - how it feels. I might need to chare this with some family members.

I hadn't thought of the whole "triggers" thing before, but now that I'm reading this, I'm realizing that I've definitely got some triggers. I think I need to work on identifying them, and either eliminating them, or learning how to better deal with them.

Thanks.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> I like this. So frequently people are told they have to loosen up, or get over themselves; my mom frequently told me that I needed to lower my expectations of other people. No one ever says, "It's OK to have a certain set of standards." But to tell me to own my boundaries and to respect them? I don't know if anyone's ever said that to me. So thanks.
> 
> Mind = blown.
> 
> Funny thing about our values clearly not lining up... one of the things that I liked about him from the beginning, one of the first things that caught my attention, was how his values lined up so well with mine. But is was all lies, and honesty is the traits I value above all others. Hmm...


Strange you know . 18 yrs together and yet l felt as though a lot of x's very core values were lies too . Especially breaking up the family .
They weren't so much lies in a just plain bs'ing way , more sort of said in a careless way . Unaware that what she was saying she believed and felt , meant the world to me and even caused life changing decisions , a few times . 
And like she wasn't a dishonest person either but she did have this way of just not spitting out just wtf was on her mind.
That caused us so many serious things to and eventually our marriage because she was saying for 18mths everything was fine.
lf there's ever another one , the one thing l'm gonna have to insist on is -
" just tell it the way it fkg is " :scratchhead:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> Strange you know . 18 yrs together and yet l felt as though a lot of x's very core values were lies too . Especially breaking up the family .
> They weren't so much lies in a just plain bs'ing way , more sort of said in a careless way . Unaware that what she was saying she believed and felt , meant the world to me and even caused life changing decisions , a few times .
> And like she wasn't a dishonest person either but she did have this way of just not spitting out just wtf was on her mind.
> That caused us so many serious things to and eventually our marriage because she was saying for 18mths everything was fine.
> ...


Yes! Me, too! I'm a tell it like it is, call you on your BS kind of person. That's what I want in a partner. I need someone who can keep my ego in check


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

There are a couple things, posted here on my thread, in the last couple of days that have set off some bells for me.



angelpixie said:


> I'd also look at Patricia Evans' and Beverly Engels' books for *recovering from abusive relationships*. Both deal with how to set your own boundaries for the future, and how to recognize red flags.


Ding!



angstire said:


> Mirroring. They do this to real us in, *so they can use for their emotional fixes and as emotional punching bags later*.


Ding!



angelpixie said:


> *It's a classic technique for abusers.* They become who they think we want, and as angstire said, it's often someone like ourselves. So they become our mirror. If it's accompanied by lots of romance, sweeping-off-the-feet behavior, nobody loves you like me, etc., etc., that crosses into 'love bombing.'


Ding ding ding!

You all have been paying more attention to my own story than I have - or it's simply that you have the perspective of distance (probably the latter).

It never even occurred to me that my STBXH's behavior was a abusive. I'd said in the past before that he emotionally and physically neglected me, but I'd never even considered that his behavior was abusive! So thank you for ringing that bell...

So I started doing some research, and I had a lightbulb moment. Nearly (if not) all of his behavior qualifies as emotionally abusive. It's as if all the puzzle pieces have fallen into place for me; everything - EVERYTHING - makes sense now. From his behavior at the very beginning of our relationship, to his behavior when we finally went to MC, including everything in between and even his behavior since we began talking again in August, all of it fits. Even his refusal to take any responsibility for PACKING AND MOVING HIS OWN SH!T OUT OF THE APARTMENT fits into the pattern.

(All I gotta say is that there is some sh!t that's gonna get broken tonight, motherf----.)

This... it's just... a REVELATION. I imagine that there might be some people who react to this type of realization be beating themselves up for not seeing it sooner. They might find this type of realization devastating. I don't. I find it liberating; I feel 100# lighter today. I'm just grateful that I was able to recognize that his behavior and our marriage was unhealthy and needed to change.

And you know what else I'm grateful for? I'm grateful that he was too lazy to pretend to change, because that gave me the out I needed. 

I think this is a major turning point for me, TAM friends. I think that sad, scared part of me is gone for good. (reference: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...ation/122938-they-broke-up-3.html#post4736018) I think the stronger (sometimes angry) me has decided to take on the job full-time.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I know how you are feeling now, FiP. I felt it when I made that discovery, too. The odd thing was, he was the one who opened my eyes, lol. 

We were having one of our (by that time) endless 'discussions' : him going at me for hours late at night until I basically just became numb. Because he had such a pattern of twisting what I was saying and mis-repeating things back to me, we started writing down what we heard the other say. One night, he asked me to tell him how he was treating me. I let it all out. He wrote it down. Then in his very condescending, angry voice, he read it back to me. "Is this what you said? Is this how I treat you?" "Yes," I sobbed. "Well, this is emotional abuse. I am not an emotional abuser, so these things did not happen." :wtf:

Mind. Blown.

Seriously, I remember just kind of detaching at that moment. But the next day at work, I googled 'emotional abuse.' And boy, I had that 'a-ha!' moment, too. Like you, _everything_ started to make sense for me, and that started me on my way out the door. It put an instant end to me wanting to work on things with him. It took a long while after that for me to stop trying to get him to understand, to admit, to apologize. I thought he still had that much inside of him. It took quite a while before I really realized he didn't. 

To this day, he denies he was abusive. ONCE, he admitted that he 'bullied' me a couple times. But then he took it back. The most important thing is that I KNOW and that I never forget it.

It can be a liberating experience. When things settle, you might yet experience some grieving for the time you lived in it, that's normal. But if you keep seeing yourself as a survivor, and keep moving forward, as you already are, you will go from victim to survivor to thriver, as we say in my DV support group.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

@anglepixie; What you just wrote just triggered me into a flashback. Mine kept going at me until late at night as well. Hound me into bed; I would say I'm done talking and he would just get more aggressive in his accusations to try and get me to respond. It was normally 1-2 nights a week and would normally last until at least 1 am and went as late as 5:30 am. It's amazing that just reading what you said happened to you just threw me back two years though; I sure have come a long way; but I still have a long way to go. I need to practice enforcing my boundries as well.

Cheers,
-M


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm sorry to cause a trigger, Morgiana.  It is amazing how many of the tactics are the same, isn't it? I don't know how long it will be until those memories no longer come up -- maybe they always will from time to time. 

I think the sure sign of healing, though, is how quickly we bounce back.  ((hugs))


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

For a feminist you are sure caught up in the life of a man who is no longer in your life. Have you been able to move on with your life yet? Sorry to be a bummer, I understand the glee at hearing bout the breakup, but it sounds like a little more than that. In fact, sounds like you were trolling to find out...


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

FYI: I am male but to the extent a man can be feminist, I am one. So no dig at the politics.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I didn't realize feminists weren't allowed to vent and go through a normal break-up process. Huh. Interesting.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Duly chastized


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> I know how you are feeling now, FiP. I felt it when I made that discovery, too. The odd thing was, he was the one who opened my eyes, lol.
> 
> We were having one of our (by that time) endless 'discussions' : him going at me for hours late at night until I basically just became numb. Because he had such a pattern of twisting what I was saying and mis-repeating things back to me, we started writing down what we heard the other say. One night, he asked me to tell him how he was treating me. I let it all out. He wrote it down. Then in his very condescending, angry voice, he read it back to me. "Is this what you said? Is this how I treat you?" "Yes," I sobbed. "Well, this is emotional abuse. I am not an emotional abuser, so these things did not happen." :wtf:
> 
> Mind. Blown.


WOW. Just WOW. 

Was your EX abused as a child? Mine was, physically abused by his dad, and so he swore up and down that he would never hit a woman, and that he makes sure to control his temper (what he really does is suppress any real emotion, especially those "bad" and/or uncomfortable emotions). But it has only occurred to me (like, JUST NOW, as I'm writing) that he must have been emotionally abused by his mom, too -- he's learned all these behaviors from her, and I've seen her act this way with him many times. I'd ask him over and over, "Why do you let her manipulate you like that? Why do you let her guilt trip you into that?" And he would say (whine), "I don't know, she's my Mom. I love her."

I should have turned that mirror back on myself, shouldn't I?



> Seriously, I remember just kind of detaching at that moment. But the next day at work, I googled 'emotional abuse.' And boy, I had that 'a-ha!' moment, too. Like you, _everything_ started to make sense for me, and that started me on my way out the door. It put an instant end to me wanting to work on things with him. It took a long while after that for me to stop trying to get him to understand, to admit, to apologize. I thought he still had that much inside of him. It took quite a while before I really realized he didn't.
> 
> To this day, he denies he was abusive. ONCE, he admitted that he 'bullied' me a couple times. But then he took it back. The most important thing is that I KNOW and that I never forget it.
> 
> It can be a liberating experience. When things settle, you might yet experience some grieving for the time you lived in it, that's normal. But if you keep seeing yourself as a survivor, and keep moving forward, as you already are, you will go from victim to survivor to thriver, as we say in my DV support group.


I've already accepted that he will never recognize this in himself, he will never apologize for his treatment of me, and he will never change. He made all of this abundantly clear back in early August. 

That, in and of itself, completely separate from anything having to do with me, is really sad. He's a very unhappy, dissatisfied, jaded person at his core. I almost feel bad for him. 

ALMOST.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

That's how this works; they're unhappy inside, so they're looking for happy outside. Happiness outside is fleeting, if there isn't any inside.

Our exes will continue to be unhappy and in crashing relationships until they fix the inside stuff; if they ever do. I feel pity, but that's it (well, mostly).


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> That's how this works; they're unhappy inside, so they're looking for happy outside. Happiness outside is fleeting, if there isn't any inside.
> 
> Our exes will continue to be unhappy and in crashing relationships until they fix the inside stuff; if they ever do. I feel pity, but that's it (well, mostly).


Ding ding ding 

I've tried to explain this to me STBXH (back in early August), but of course it falls on deaf ears.

Whatever. Not my problem.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> I didn't realize feminists weren't allowed to vent and go through a normal break-up process. Huh. Interesting.


And this particular feminist is passing through uncharted waters. I've never been divorced, so this is all new to me. I never had a LTR before I met my STBXH, so I've never been as emotionally invested in another person (aside from family and best friends) as my STBXH. I've never had a family member or best friend emotionally manipulate me the way that my STBXH did; I've never had a family member or best friend abandon me in such a callous way (or abandon me at all, for that matter).

I think most people on TAM would agree that this has been a traumatic experience for me, since they have also been through (or are going through) a similar traumatic experience. None of us are perfect, least of all myself. I'm doing the best that I can to heal and learn from this experience. God know I haven't done everything perfectly, but I'm still moving forward, and that's all that really matters, right?


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Ding ding ding
> 
> I've tried to explain this to me STBXH (back in early August), but of course it falls on deaf ears.
> 
> Whatever. Not my problem.


Right, not your problem. Even today, I thought, maybe I should call her, tell her I'm sorry it ended and maybe that would spark her to reevaluate how she is doing with relationships and maybe set her life on a different course.

But why? If she's not ready, it will just look like controlling behavior and perhaps an attempt to reconcile to her. She has all the info she needs to change her life. Two divorces, constant need to be rescued, traumatic instability, etc. 

It IS controlling on my part to want to do this. And white knight behavior. I want her to be happy and work this sh!t out for herself and her kids. If she did work this out, maybe she'd feel regret, recognize her part, recognize that I'm not the ahole she's made me out to be and then really try hard to make a relationship for her daughters and me work. But, she has to be ready to change and put the effort in to get there.

My call would not do anything for her or me. If she's ever ready, she will have to do it. Your stbxh too.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> It IS controlling on my part to want to do this. And white knight behavior. I want her to be happy and work this sh!t out for herself and her kids. If she did work this out, maybe she'd feel regret, recognize her part, recognize that I'm not the ahole she's made me out to be and then really try hard to make a relationship for her daughters and me work. But, she has to be ready to change and put the effort in to get there.
> 
> My call would not do anything for her or me. If she's ever ready, she will have to do it. Your stbxh too.


But good for us that we recognize this, right? I don't mean just recognizing it in our ex-partners, but more so that we recognize that our behavior won't change anything for our ex-partners. 

And beyond that, recognizing that our desire to "help" them is really a way to control them. I always became irritated when my STBXH wanted to help me with a problem, because I wanted to do it myself - and now, I get that I didn't like it because he was trying to take away my control over my life and my situation when he did stuff like that.

See, angstire, we're growing and learning.

Go us!


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Indeed FIP, go us.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

And, still, super hero avatars of TAM, UNITE!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> And, still, super hero avatars of TAM, UNITE!


Woot! Where's Thundarr the Barbarian when you need him (her?)?


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## Juicy (Nov 15, 2011)

FIP, I just caught up with your thread...like most people here on TAM I get how you're feeling and most of the time I want to scream about my exH and the OW he is seeing. 

He blocked me on Facebook, which is actually a good thing because it hurt so much seeing all of these photos of him and the OW. I mean he even went bloody Tunisia with her this summer (although he always complained to me about how much money I used to spend!).

Anyway, I have said this before and really need to follow my own advise...but what I feel about my H, and I'm sure many can see similarities with their situation, is that he just gave up on our marriage when it all got too tough.

It was easier for him to run away from it all and the best way for him to do that was to find the first available and desperate woman willing to start a relationship with a skinny, short-ass pos like my H. 

Honestly though, by starting a new relationship and rebounding my H is just trying to convince himself that he did the right thing and that there was a reason for breaking up with me. I know deep down that he is guilty and knows he has done wrong and acted like a total idiot. 

Whether he will realise that is another story, but yes some people just find it easier to run and hide in a rebound relationship just so they're not alone and they feel they have done the right thing. 

They will regret it one day I'm sure, my H didn't even give himself a chance to live his life and find himself. I don't know how he thinks rushing into something is going to be better than what we had. Soon he will realise this, I really believe he will.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

"ass hat" :smthumbup: I love that word. It cracks me up every time I hear it.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Juicy - thanks for the solidarity! I feel like I could have written your post myself.

The only exception is that I'm not convinced my STBXH will come to regret it, or that he will ever realize the mistakes he made. He's not that self-aware, and I don't know that he ever will be.

Whatever - not my problem!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MSC71 said:


> "ass hat" :smthumbup: I love that word. It cracks me up every time I hear it.



Me, too! I like to save it for special occasions. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Juicy said:


> FIP, I just caught up with your thread...like most people here on TAM I get how you're feeling and most of the time I want to scream about my exH and the OW he is seeing.
> 
> He blocked me on Facebook, which is actually a good thing because it hurt so much seeing all of these photos of him and the OW. I mean he even went bloody Tunisia with her this summer (although he always complained to me about how much money I used to spend!).
> 
> ...



Yeah , l hope the same Juicy .But logically speaking too .
1 , What are the odds of meeting someone that will be better in the long run, lasting - before you've even ended your marriage let alone down the track and dealing mentally with everything they will be later on top of it. lt hasn't even hit home yet . 12 mths even , it's nothing, what are the odds ?

And two , it took most of us years , to find the person we married and even then look where that finished up , for them too not only us.

So you know , l just don't see how they could last . l know one in a 100 might but hey even them , go see them in 20yrs time , are they still together ?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> Yeah , l hope the same Juicy .But logically speaking too .
> 1 , What are the odds of meeting someone that will be better in the long run, lasting - before you've even ended your marriage let alone down the track and dealing mentally with everything they will be later on top of it. lt hasn't even hit home yet . 12 mths even , it's nothing, what are the odds ?
> 
> And two , it took most of us years , to find the person we married and even then look where that finished up , for them too not only us.
> ...


So true, Whitehawk. My STBXH has a pattern of jumping into a LTR with the first woman who shows an interest in him, so EVERY relationship is a rebound with him. *I* was a rebound relationship for him -- I didn't know it at the time, but I was.

So I know it's not going to last, especially not with his issues -- unless she's willing to put up with his abuse for the rest of her life. So it's going to crash and burn, eventually; he'll ruin it the same way he ruined us.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Rinse, lather, repeat


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> Rinse, lather, repeat


Pretty much!

What do they say about insanity? Insanity is continually doing the same thing, but expecting different results?


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Pretty much!
> 
> What do they say about insanity? Insanity is continually doing the same thing, but expecting different results?


Ahh , so that's what my problem is :rofl::rofl:


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## littlejaz (Oct 17, 2013)

I am fairly new here and just read through this entire thread. I filed over 1 1/2 years ago and have been trying to analyze what he did and what I did. The problem I am having is that he is hooked on prescription meds so a lot of the stuff he did makes no sense. There is no logic to it. I know he did a lot of blame shifting, but it is very difficult to analyze my part in all this when most of the time I feel I was reacting to a crazy person who had little to no grasp of reality.

Unfortunately, I am not in a position that I can afford counseling, so I am trying to figure it out on my own.

Several years before we split, we had done some MC and IC. But the therapist finally told me that insurance would only pay for so many visits and that I seemed to be pretty well grounded and she felt I did not need her help so would I give up my visits so he could see her more. (She billed half his visits as if it was me.)

Does this make sense? Anyone else dealing with someone on drugs?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

littlejaz, I would suggest that you start your own thread with your question. It's not going to get many responses or views posted on this thread, since the only people who will see it are the handful of people who have subscribed to my thread. If you start a new thread, it will be at the top of the message board and a lot of people will read it (and hopefully respond).


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Also, LittleJaz, you might want to start a separate thread in the Physical & Mental Health Issues Sub-Forum. Hopefully, you'll get help from both sides of the issue.


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## littlejaz (Oct 17, 2013)

Thank FIP and angelpixie - I started my own thread here.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> I don't think that's strange at all. As time progresses, and as your grow and work on yourself, it will become less nebulous. We're all working for that right now.
> 
> Part of me wants to get strong, and then have my STBXH come crawling back so I can crush him like a bug.
> 
> ...


I wasraing through your posts and shaking my head in agreement with you all the way. This paragraph speaks volumes to me b/c it is exactly how i feel each and every day. It is an internal struggle that I face everyday. I want to get stronger so he can come back begging but in the end, I really want it to be able to live my life without the fear of the unknown. THanks for your words, they make sense to me and others and offer much encouragement.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, I kind of got some bummer news today. I found out that the DC courts are backed up, and that I probably will have to wait for THREE MONTHS after I file for my divorce hearing - even though STBXH and I are doing what's deemed a "fast track" divorce (we've already split everything up ourselves, we'll file my divorce petition and his response simultaneously [so no serving of papers to him, etc], no kids/custody stuff to work out, etc.). If he agrees (which I see no reason he won't), we'll even waive the 31-day waiting period between the hearing and when the divorce is final, so it will be final on the day of the hearing. 

Apparently, they make it very easy to divorce in DC, but it just takes a LONG time. Had I known this, I would have filed back in August.

I was hoping to be divorced by the end of this year. It may sound stupid, but I really wanted to start 2014 totally fresh with the divorce done and behind me.

Grrr...


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

sherri1997 said:


> I wasraing through your posts and shaking my head in agreement with you all the way. This paragraph speaks volumes to me b/c it is exactly how i feel each and every day. It is an internal struggle that I face everyday. I want to get stronger so he can come back begging but in the end, I really want it to be able to live my life without the fear of the unknown. THanks for your words, they make sense to me and others and offer much encouragement.


sherri1997, I'm really glad if my posting here has helped you. Posting my own story here, and my own thoughts, etc has felt a little strange to me - like it's self-serving or self-preening. But if my thread/story can also help other people beyond myself, then I feel it's doubly good.

Just writing and posting has been cathartic for me and has helped me work through my thoughts - and I've had a similar response as you, when I've read other people's threads.

I was just saying to a friend this afternoon how helpful TAM has been to me through this entire process. I don't think that I would be doing as well as I am right now if it weren't for TAM. Beyond the feedback and advice that has been offered by other TAMers, I've found reading other TAMer's stories similar to my own to be very helpful. 

In reading others' stories, it's as if I can look at my own experience from a more objective and critical viewpoint. That has helped me get past some of the less-than-helpful emotions I've been dealing with and deal with my situation in a more rational way. Separating the emotional from the rational is, I think, one of the biggest stumbling block that TAMers like you and I face, and so the help coming from TAM has been priceless.

Seriously, I don't know how I would have made it through any of this without TAM. So thanks to everyone who's commented on my thread, and to everyone who's posted their own stories here, and to the people who have shared their wisdom on other threads as well. It's all made a world of difference.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Sorry FIP, bummer that it won't be done this year. 

You're divorced except for the contract saying you're married. Hopefully that helps a little. Hopefully, it will be done by tax time, so you file as single.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Seriously, I don't know how I would have made it through any of this without TAM. So thanks to everyone who's commented on my thread, and to everyone who's posted their own stories here, and to the people who have shared their wisdom on other threads as well. It's all made a world of difference.


Ditto!!!!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> Hang in there FeministinPink. Sure wish they would have made us have that waiting period BEFORE the marriage. My story may have been different. We will have a HUGE TAM celebration when it becomes official.


I know, right??? I wonder if we had done pre-marriage counseling, would I have seen the warning flags? I'll never know, so no point in wasting time there. Though, if/when I get married again, there WILL be pre-marriage counseling. Definitely.

I am totally having a FREEDOM party IRL when it's official, and I will definitely have a party thread on TAM when it happens, too


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> Sorry FIP, bummer that it won't be done this year.
> 
> You're divorced except for the contract saying you're married. Hopefully that helps a little. Hopefully, it will be done by tax time, so you file as single.


Yeah, you're right... and my STBXH decided we were divorced 6 months before he thought to mention it to me! LOL 

I just don't like the open-ended-ness of it. That, and the lack of control. Not to say that I have control issues (!), but after the emotional roller coaster and so much uncertainty over the last year (and then some), the fact that when my divorce actually happens depends on the length of the overall court docket? Well, that just adds to the stress/uncertainty of the whole thing. 

And I'm tired of waiting... I've spend the last decade+ waiting on my STBXH (to get his sh!t together, to act like a grown-up, to act like a man, to prioritize me and our relationship, to get over his issues, etc, etc, etc). I've waited enough!


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: Re: They broke up!?!*



FeministInPink said:


> I know, right??? I wonder if we had done pre-marriage counseling, would I have seen the warning flags? I'll never know, so no point in wasting time there. Though, if/when I get married again, there WILL be pre-marriage counseling. Definitely.
> 
> I am totally having a FREEDOM party IRL when it's official, and I will definitely have a party thread on TAM when it happens, too


You probably would of seen the warning flags but you would still get married. Most likely because of wishful thinking and thinking you could fix the problems....


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MSC71 said:


> You probably would of seen the warning flags but you would still get married. Most likely because of wishful thinking and thinking you could fix the problems....


Yeah... I think I saw the red flags before we got married, and I still married the guy anyway.

I know better for next time!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> I don't think counseling would have helped me, I would have thought "we can just work hard and with positive thinking we can overcome this." In my case though a wait period may have helped because of external circumstances, then again who knows.
> 
> In fact we went through this joke of a questionnaire given by the church.
> 
> ...


Ding Ding Ding!

Meeting with the STBXH next Sunday for coffee. I told him we had some stuff to go over; I have all the paperwork ready for him to sign, and I hope he'll just sign everything with no fuss. I don't want to drag this out any longer. The most complicated thing will be him signing over his half of our time share to me -- that's the only thing I have left to figure out, and I think I can have that sorted by next week. He's already agreed, it's just paperwork now.

I was texting with a friend last night, and she said, "What if he wants to delay or talk about it more? I wouldn't be surprised if the finality of it all will make him hesitate." She went on to say, "I just have the suspicion that he doesn't really think he traded up [with the OW]."

I hope he doesn't refuse to sign, or say that he needs more time to think things over. He's made his opinion on the status of our marriage abundantly clear, and I'm ready for this to be finished. It would be really sh!tty on his part to decide that he still needs more time to think about it.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

As far as taxes go, FiP, you'll have to file as the status you are December 31st of this year. I ran into the same thing. Ex was in hurry-hurry mode, then made me wait so long getting his financial affidavits together that we missed the cut-off to be D'd by the end of 2012. So, we had to file married one more year.  We filed separately, but still married. PITA, let me tell you, as we both have small businesses, he's on disability, and I work. I had no clue what he did on his part of the taxes, either. 

So, you might want to keep that in mind, too, as we finish this year out, in case it effects anything you do financially.

Good luck getting it done quickly!! I'd wanted to get mine done before the end of last year, but '13 has turned out to be pretty lucky for me!  Maybe it will be for you, too.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> I so hope he signs. What a guy, should I keep this model or trade up?
> 
> It is no longer an option for him so good luck to him with the OW or whoever he moves onto now.
> 
> ...


He'll sign. He's the kind of person who, once he makes a decision, never looks back, never reconsiders, never thinks about what he could have done differently. Very black/white thinking, which I never understood - until y'all opened my eyes to the narcissism/BPD thing.

I would wish him well, but honestly? I don't. I know I'm supposed to forgive and be generous and all that, but whatever. It's not that I harbor any ill will -- I just think he deserves what he gets. Which is not having me!

Ahh... wishful thinking, the bane of my existence? You're right there is a difference - and I can see it clearly now. I feel like I've learned so much in the past few months, and I know there is more to come. I'm looking forward to that, actually. I might not be old yet, but I'm definitely getting wizened.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> As far as taxes go, FiP, you'll have to file as the status you are December 31st of this year. I ran into the same thing. Ex was in hurry-hurry mode, then made me wait so long getting his financial affidavits together that we missed the cut-off to be D'd by the end of 2012. So, we had to file married one more year.  We filed separately, but still married. PITA, let me tell you, as we both have small businesses, he's on disability, and I work. I had no clue what he did on his part of the taxes, either.
> 
> So, you might want to keep that in mind, too, as we finish this year out, in case it effects anything you do financially.
> 
> Good luck getting it done quickly!! I'd wanted to get mine done before the end of last year, but '13 has turned out to be pretty lucky for me!  Maybe it will be for you, too.


Thanks for the heads-up on the taxes thing - I was wondering about that. And 2013 taxes are going to be rough - it will be the first year since 2009 that I won't get a deduction for my grad school tuition, and I've finally paid off all the interest on my undergrad loans, so no credit for that either.

I am a little worried about him filing his share, but I'm sure he'll do it. NOT filing your taxes is pretty stupid. Then again, we are talking about my STBXH... no, he'll do them. I'm usually the one who puts them off until the last minute.

EDIT: And I think '14 will be a pretty good year for me, even if the divorce doesn't happen before the ball drops! I'm excited to see what the new year will bring. There's a certain someone I would like to ask out to dinner... who knows what could happen?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> Well. The black/white thinker I knew enjoyed my pain and dragging out the process so I hope your ex signs, moves on and never looks back to bother you. I hope 2014 will be a good year for everybody.
> 
> Good luck with the dinner person.


My STBXH doesn't want to be "the bad guy" so I doubt he will try to drag it out.

Dinner person is out of the country until February or so... so I have plenty of time to work on me until then!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Your STBXH sounds like my Ex, FiP -- he was careless, and lazy, and totally not dependable, and terribly P/A, but he never wanted to be thought of as the 'bad guy.' It's extremely important that people think he's a 'good person.' (though not enough that he actually becomes one, but I digress) Hopefully, you can parlay that into cooperation on getting the divorce done quickly and cleanly. Hopefully, he's not the kind of person who will want to drag things out just to make you suffer.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

He may drag it out just b/c he doesn't want to be the "bad guy".

The longer he delays it, the more she pushes, the more he can say "Well she is the one that really wanted the divorce she was pushing and trying to get it over with ASAP"

Twisted people think in twisted ways. Oh and FIP, DO NOT be surprised if he does bring up some sort of conversation to test the waters of R...especially if him and his wonderful gf just broke up.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Yeah, you're right... and my STBXH decided we were divorced 6 months before he thought to mention it to me! LOL


Say it with me (even though name calling is immature):

Douche canoe.


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## littlejaz (Oct 17, 2013)

Good luck, I hope he signs and saves you the nightmare. Mine won't even negotiate and it has been over 1 1/2 years since I filed. His first attorney spoke with my attorney once in the beginning about a settlement - 50-50 - yeah - he got all the assets and I got all the debt. I am sure he is still mad that I refused that one. He has had my settlement agreement since the 1st of April and not one word, other than his attorney withdrawing from the case. We have a court date next month so hopefully if he doesn't do something soon the judge will decide then. I am just worried about a continuance. Like you, I want this over so I can on with my life. I am holding out no hope for reconciliation as I am the one who filed and wouldn't take him back for anything, but financially I can't do anything until I know how the divorce comes out.

Hoping for the best for all of us.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Thanks, folks, for the support. I don't think he will try to drag it out, because that would require some sort of extra effort on his part. And as for being a "good person" - he is a devotee of Sting, and therefore subscribes to (or gives lip service, anyway) the idea of, "if you love someone, set them free." So he will just tell people that he was just setting me free out of love, or some other such bullsh!t. And he's already established himself as "the good guy" with everyone else; he's been telling everyone from day one of our separation, "she hates me, she never wants to see me again, she's going to divorce me, wah." So he's already painted me as the villain in his story, and I doubt that he told any of those same people that I asked him to work on our marriage, and that he made the choice not to. He never tells a story where he's not the hero.

And all I REALLY need is for him to sign the settlement agreement. If he signs that but nothing else, I can go ahead and file, and then serve him. And if he still won't sign the response within 20 days of being served, he's in default, and I get my divorce anyway. If he chooses to appeal my filing, I can withdraw my filing and re-file after Feb 10 (when we have been separated for a full year) and I can get my divorce whether he cooperates or not.

Plus, I'm in possession of $4k of his money that he's not getting back until he signs. Hey - it's marital property until we're not married anymore, so I'm fine with keeping it in my account until we're not married anymore... I also have no problem SPENDING IT, either. 

If he wants to be difficult, he can BRING IT. But he won't. He's never actively opposed me on anything, he's always P/A about it. That's why I need him to sign the papers in person. I think his most likely mode of opposition would be to just ignore the papers if I served him. He can't ignore me with papers right in front of him.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

angstire said:


> Say it with me (even though name calling is immature):
> 
> Douche canoe.


You, dear friend, are AWESOME.


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## littlejaz (Oct 17, 2013)

Good luck, I hope his does sign.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Woot - just to the last of my STBXH's sh!t to the storage locker, and I'm giving back his car tomorrow!!! At least, I hope that was the last of it -- I'm sure I'll find some random crap over the next few months.

I have a feeling that I will be throwing away anything else that I find 

It feels great to have all his crap out! Now I just need to clear out more of MY crap!


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm a little lost on this thread, so you'll have to excuse me. I just wanted to add that my ex did the same thing. She cold-heartedly divorced me in secrecy, not once but twice, and had the paperwork sent to me while phoning in half-assed reconciliation attempts. She just had to have the idiot deuche that was the AP, some illegal immigrant dope smoking tattood fry cook. And then from what I saw on facebook just peeking she dumped him not even a year he after divorce. 

The woman was more in love with falling in love and couldn't commit to anything, not even the pets she abused or the career she divorced me for in secrecy on graduation day. She gained a lot of weight too! Like 70lbs from the pics. And must have lost all her friends because she never had a best friend, she had new friend and a long list of friends who she used and tossed aside like her exes, except so the orbiters she used as temporary filler between new boyfriends. 

This just seems to be very very typical of cheaters. They make everything out to be your fault so they can cheat, leave you crushed, have a year or two of the honeymoon phase, and leave them to continue to try to "find" themselves. It never seems to workout and the funny thing is you may not get closure from their words, but one day you're going to run into them again and you're going to see what a loser your ex is when they no longer have their good looks, money, or anything they "deserved" and see them either company to misery or the perfect person for them, someone who's just as much of a cheating douche canoe loser.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Nsweet -- definitely some similarities, though my STBXH is very passive-aggressive. So I'm the one who's doing the filing, because he will never do it. I'm meeting him tomorrow, and I'm going to have him sign all the papers then, when I give back the car. I told him, "We have some stuff to go over." But he's got to know it's coming. You don't throw over your wife for the POSOW, and expect your wife to wait patiently until you get your act together and file the paperwork.

Just like everything else in our marriage... p/a even down to the very last thing, filing the paperwork.

Whatever. Glad to be rid of his lazy, p/a ass. He's POSOW's problem now.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

And PS for NSweet -- this thread will make a LOT more sense of you read my other threads first, but primarily this one:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/113450-wtf-going-me.html

Most of the people reading/commenting on my thread here were on my other thread(s) as well. I write long posts, so my apologies in advance if you actually do read through them!


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Nsweet -- definitely some similarities, though my STBXH is very passive-aggressive. So I'm the one who's doing the filing, because he will never do it. I'm meeting him tomorrow, and I'm going to have him sign all the papers then, when I give back the car. I told him, "We have some stuff to go over." But he's got to know it's coming. You don't throw over your wife for the POSOW, and expect your wife to wait patiently until you get your act together and file the paperwork.
> 
> Just like everything else in our marriage... p/a even down to the very last thing, filing the paperwork.
> 
> Whatever. Glad to be rid of his lazy, p/a ass. He's POSOW's problem now.


What did you get out of it? Your freedom. 

What did the OW get? A lazy, passive aggressive, liar, manipulator, and cheater for a boyfriend. 

Compare the two.... YOU WIN!:rofl:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Yay, I'm a winner! 

(But we all already knew that, right?  )

Here's another fun "I'm a winner" tidbit to share:

So, I bought a Fiat 500 Sport about two weeks ago. It's a manual transmission - fun thing was, I didn't know how to drive a stick, so my sales associate taught me how to drive it that night. And I drove it off the lot, and drove it home - 45 minutes from the dealership, through Washington, DC.

So, earlier this week, I was back home in PA visiting the folks, and I stopped by my mom's work. I got to meet my mom's boss and some of her co-workers, and apparently she had told them about me buying the Fiat and learning to drive stick. One of her co-workers said she was really impressed, and my mom's boss chimed in: "Learning manual and driving the car off the lot? Into the city? That takes some serious balls!"

So, not only am I a winner, but I have some serious balls, too :rofl:


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Yeah for those balls! Im soooo happy for you!!!  

Here's to the first day of the rest of your life! 

~sammy


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, I'm heading over to the coffee shop where we are supposed to meet today. We're meeting at 3pm, but I'm going to take my netbook and write while I wait. He was early last time, and I want to get there before him. Plus, if he's early again, then maybe we can get this over and done with quicker.

Wish me luck!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

He signed!!! It was all quite surreal. No chit-chat -- I cut to the chase right away, since I didn't really want to be there in the first place. I don't want to hear about how he's doing, or what he's been up to. I went through each document, line by line, explaining what each checkbox was, and showed him where to sign.

Initially, I was signing them as we went through, but then he would put it over to the side, as if he was either going to take them with him and sign them -- or he might have been waiting until after I went through the docs.

He asked me about the joint account, which I closed over the summer and moved the money into my account (I told him this, but of course he doesn't remember), and I told him I was prepared to write him a check for his half - when he signed the papers. He said, doesn't that need to go in the settlement? I said, No, once I write you the check, you deposit it into your account, which is covered by the settlement agreement. He signed the papers, and I wrote him the check.

He never even asked about the engagement ring, which was his grandmother's 50th wedding anniversary ring. I expected him to ask about it, but he didn't. The law's in my favor on this one, anyway, and it's in my possession; and the settlement agreement states that what is in my possession is mine, and what's in his possession is his. If he wants it back, he can buy it from me.

So... all that's left is to file the paperwork, and wait for the hearing... 

I'm freeeeeee!!!!!

(Almost.)


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

And all it cost you was a small check written out to assh*le tax.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> And all it cost you was a small check written out to assh*le tax.


And that was really his money - I was just holding it for him 

So it didn't really cost me anything. Well, my half of the divorce filing fee is $40, so it will cost me $40. (Plus the last ten years, but who's counting? It was a learning experience!)


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Did you do the divorce yourself Feminist?
40 bucks is cheap!!!

I have been holding on because I don't have the finances to pay for a lawyer. My divorce will be simple, no kids, he is keeping house, we already split finances.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> And that was really his money - I was just holding it for him
> 
> So it didn't really cost me anything. Well, my half of the divorce filing fee is $40, so it will cost me $40. (Plus the last ten years, but who's counting? It was a learning experience!)


So if you went out on a date with a man ten years younger than yourself who made you feel young (in a good way), and he paid for dinner, it would almost be like breaking even, wouldn't it?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

ne9907 said:


> Did you do the divorce yourself Feminist?
> 40 bucks is cheap!!!
> 
> I have been holding on because I don't have the finances to pay for a lawyer. My divorce will be simple, no kids, he is keeping house, we already split finances.


Yes, doing it pro se. The filing cost in DC is $80, so I deducted $40 from the check I wrote to STBXH for his half. I SHOULD have demanded that he pay the whole thing, but I was feeling generous 

Ours is also super simple - no house to worry about, and we already decided how everything would be split. I went to a Pro Se workshop offered by the DC bar association, and they reviewed all my paperwork, and talked me through everything. Basically, the DC system is designed to make it simple for people doing it pro se.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> So if you went out on a date with a man ten years younger than yourself who made you feel young (in a good way), and he paid for dinner, it would almost be like breaking even, wouldn't it?


Sure, let's go with that! 

Actually, living with my STBXH was like living with an old man. He was cantankerous and cranky almost all the time, his body was falling apart because he didn't take care of himself (not to mention lots of hard living before he met me, drinking too much, and working in restaurants/kitchens for over 20 yrs, which notoriously accelerates aging), he was super set in his routines, and he had weird hair sprouting EVERYWHERE. And he never wanted to go anywhere or do anything, all he wanted to do was watch tv and play video . Living with him, I felt like I had prematurely reached late middle age.

Heck, I know men 5, 10, 15 years older than my STBXH who live their lives with more youthful enthusiasm than him. 

I already feel younger, just not living with him anymore. I can't recapture my 20's - and I don't think that I want to - but I can live my 30's the way I want, rather than living like an old woman. I'm too young for that.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Came across this today:

This Recently Married Man Just Realized Marriage Is Not For Him

(Disregard the title; it's worth it.)

This was the perspective I brought to my marriage; if my STBXH had the same perspective, we wouldn't be getting divorced. But my STBXH is incapable of this perspective, so there you have it.

The next man will be capable, and that's what I'll be looking for.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Came across this today:
> 
> This Recently Married Man Just Realized Marriage Is Not For Him
> 
> ...


Good find!:smthumbup:


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## philglossop (Apr 22, 2013)

Good job Feminist!

My XH has posted in my thread in the divorced section his 1st post. As your STBXH is just like him, I've advised XH to read your thread (if that's ok!)- as I've got a lot of respect for you and Sherri.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

philglossop said:


> Good job Feminist!
> 
> My XH has posted in my thread in the divorced section his 1st post. As your STBXH is just like him, I've advised XH to read your thread (if that's ok!)- as I've got a lot of respect for you and Sherri.


Well, color me flattered, philglossop! Thank you. And yes, of course it's OK - I've never posted anything on here expecting it to stay private (though I don't know how I would feel about my STBXH reading my threads, but I doubt that will ever happen). I've learned so much from reading others' threads, so I'm happy if my threads can help someone else.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, I just cleared it with my boss, in case it takes longer than expected and I have to be late for work -- going to the courthouse Wednesday morning to file the papers. I WANTED to do it tomorrow (STBXH's birthday, I thought it would be appropriate), but I suppose one more day won't hurt me.

Two more days, and one step closer to FREEDOM!!!!!!

(I feel a little like William Wallace right now.)


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I filed this morning!!! It was SUPER easy, and my hearing date is only 5 weeks away! (EDIT: December 9)

WHAT??? The lawyer said it would probably be three months from when I filed. I can't believe it's going to be so soon...

I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's pretty bright.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> I filed this morning!!! It was SUPER easy, and my hearing date is only 5 weeks away! (EDIT: December 9)
> 
> WHAT??? The lawyer said it would probably be three months from when I filed. I can't believe it's going to be so soon...
> 
> I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's pretty bright.


You know what's at the other end of that tunnel?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> You know what's at the other end of that tunnel?


Two answers:

1. Freedom

2. I'm not sure exactly what, but I know it's going to be good.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Two answers:
> 
> 1. Freedom
> 
> 2. I'm not sure exactly what, but I know it's going to be good.


You're right!

1. Freedom.

2. Casual dating and SEX.:smthumbup:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> You're right!
> 
> 1. Freedom.
> 
> 2. Casual dating and SEX.:smthumbup:


You're quite optimistic, Nsweet.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> You're quite optimistic, Nsweet.


Just good at what I do here.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I intended to post about this last week, but I've been busy, whatever.

So, last Thursday my STBXH texted me b/c he wanted to know if he was going to get the engagement ring back. His grandmother gave it to him to give to me. (It was her engagement ring, or at least that's what he says. I recall speaking to her another time, after we were married, and she said it wasn't her engagement ring. She passed away last year, so there's no one to verify who is correct at this point.)

So I called him up - I knew this wouldn't be easily discussed over text. The law in DC is pretty clear that the ring is mine, which I explained to him. And he's no dummy, he knows I do my research, and I've always been straight with him. And he seemed pretty understanding, though not terribly happy.

But I said he could buy it back from me if he wanted it. That was always my opinion on the ring - it's mine, but if he wants it, he's free to buy it from me. He asked me what I was selling it for, and if I had it appraised. I told him, "No, I haven't had it appraised yet, because I'm not actively trying to sell it at the moment. But if you want the ring back, I'll give it back to you for $4K." And he was like, nah, just keep the ring.

It was the "just keep the ring" that was weird. He didn't even try to negotiate or anything. I just thought the whole thing was strange. It's like NOTHING means anything to him. Nothing. If he had shown any sort of attachment or drive to get it back, and tried to negotiate, I would have given it back to him for half, or maybe even a third of what I asked. Because I don't really give a sh!t about the ring - it doesn't mean anything to me anymore.

My grandmother passed away in 2004, and she left me her engagement ring. I love that ring; it's one of the few things I have left of her. It's probably the most cherished thing I own, above all others. So I don't get how he can care SO LITTLE.

But I guess that's the point, right? There are a multitude of things I'll never understand about him or why he does what he does; but more importantly, it doesn't really matter anymore.

But I DO know this: I'm keeping the fvcking ring.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh, and in other news -- I'm down 27# since the beginning of August. Woot!

I totally feel awesome about this.


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## littlejaz (Oct 17, 2013)

Congrats. I envy you. My STBXH won't even negotiate. It has been over 1 1/2 years since I filed. Early on I received a settlement offer from him in which he got all the assets and I got all the debt. Obviously I wasn't going to agree to that. Since then I have sent him an equitable settlement agreement and have heard nothing back. Our second court date just came up and since his first attorney had gotten fed up with him and quit the case and he just got a new attorney and the court docket is so jammed up, he got a continuance. My next court date is the end of June - that will be 2 1/4 years since I filed and we have no children. I would love to settle this thing just to get it over with and get on with my life, but since I am not willing to walk away with all the debt, I have no choice but to wait on him to finally be willing to negotiate or until next June.

Best of luck to you.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

littlejaz said:


> Congrats. I envy you. My STBXH won't even negotiate. It has been over 1 1/2 years since I filed. Early on I received a settlement offer from him in which he got all the assets and I got all the debt. Obviously I wasn't going to agree to that. Since then I have sent him an equitable settlement agreement and have heard nothing back. Our second court date just came up and since his first attorney had gotten fed up with him and quit the case and he just got a new attorney and the court docket is so jammed up, he got a continuance. My next court date is the end of June - that will be 2 1/4 years since I filed and we have no children. I would love to settle this thing just to get it over with and get on with my life, but since I am not willing to walk away with all the debt, I have no choice but to wait on him to finally be willing to negotiate or until next June.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


littlejaz, I am quote grateful that this part has gone relatively smooth. I suppose that is the one benefit of having been married to an extremely passive passive-aggressive. He's been like this our entire relationship, refusing to do anything or take an active role in his life. He let me call all the shots, and he's still doing it now. Because he thinks the key to a successful relationship is letting your spouse call all the shots, while secretly resenting her and emotionally abusing her.

Everyone was worried that he would be difficult with all this, but I knew better. And I am thankful that if I had a miserable marriage, at least I can get out easily enough. It doesn't make up for the last decade of my life, but it's allowed me to move on. And I've been very fair with everything. It might appear that I've come out with more "stuff" but I've also voluntarily taken on all our debt. He's walking away debt-free, and in the time we've been together I've cleaned up his credit, and I've made sure that he has some money in an IRA for retirement. I hope he runs with it and doesn't fvck up his life again, but he probably will.

At least now I don't have to worry about him fvcking up my life, but I'm still dealing with the gigantic scars he gave me.

But don't be jealous. No one situation here on TAM is good, or better than any other. Each is different and personal, and I am no better off than anyone else. I'm only doing what I can to make the best of my situation. It will eventually be over. Sometimes, you just have to be willing to walk away. I was prepared to walk away from everything - my retirement, our timeshare, the savings that I had built up - if that's what it would take to get out. I'm lucky that didn't happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

And littlejaz? Another reason not to be jealous? What we share here is only a small part of our life story, and I imagine that we all have skeletons in our closets. Things you would not want know, adn things you would not be jealous of. Some just hide it better than others.

Just focus on you, and dealing with your own story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## littlejaz (Oct 17, 2013)

I know what you are saying. I just want to get this over with. I never dreamed he would drag it on this long. You know I've made great strides in getting on with my life, then it all got drudged up again in getting ready for a trial that didn't happen. So now I have boxed it all up again until the next trial date and in the mean time I keep hoping for a settlement. 

I'm not really jealous. I just constantly hear of people who manage to have a quick divorce and wish I could have been one of those. It's just hard when you have to keep going over it all for trials that never happen.

I wish I could just give in and get it over with but there is too much involved and I am too old to just let him have everything and take on all the debt myself.

"Because he thinks the key to a successful relationship is letting your spouse call all the shots, while secretly resenting her and emotionally abusing her." - I can relate, that is exactly how my marriage went. The only difference is my STBXH thinks that since I was the one who refused to continue like we were then he should get all the assets and I should take all the debt.

Anyway I am glad that you are getting yours worked out relatively smoothly.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

littlejaz said:


> I know what you are saying. I just want to get this over with. I never dreamed he would drag it on this long. You know I've made great strides in getting on with my life, then it all got drudged up again in getting ready for a trial that didn't happen. So now I have boxed it all up again until the next trial date and in the mean time I keep hoping for a settlement.
> 
> I'm not really jealous. I just constantly hear of people who manage to have a quick divorce and wish I could have been one of those. It's just hard when you have to keep going over it all for trials that never happen.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like you need a pit bull of a lawyer.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Came across this today:










And I thought, someone should have said this to my STBXH:

"Make sure you want a wife and a life together, not just a kilt, a bagpiper, and a really big party."



15 days out and counting down, peeps!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

14 days out. In two weeks, I will be done with my STBXH.

I got the hearing date off work, so there will be much merriment (aka drinking) afterwards!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

So glad there is a light at the of the tunnel for you. 
Take care of yourself.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> So glad there is a light at the of the tunnel for you.
> Take care of yourself.


Thanks, Pluto! I'm taking things piecemeal, so as not to lose steam or overwhelm myself. 

I finished packing up my STBXH's stuff a little while ago (save for the box that I keep adding random things to as I find them); I've been trying to maintain a more active social life, at which I've been doing a decent job; I've started eating better and being more conscious of how much I eat, which already over the last several months has resulted in some significant weight loss, which is awesome; I've also reinvested myself at work, as I've been really distracted due to recent events, and I know that my boss is pleased, not only because my performance is back up to my standard, but because he also knows this is because I'm doing so much better personally. Also, kind of weird, but I've started wearing make-up regularly, which I never did before--despite my huge collection of really good make-up--and that just makes me feel really good.

Next up on the list: Unfvcking my habitat (http://www.un****yourhabitat.com/)--I've never been a terribly neat person, and I want to have a nice, relaxing home that I can enjoy and (ahem) entertain in; working on my time management skills and organization; adding working out to the weight-loss thing; and with the time management skills, make time to focus on the things I really love (music, writing); and finally, I'm planning on applying to a few free-lance editing services to pick up some part-time work so I can start beefing up my savings and create a more deliberate financial plan for my future.

All of this goes towards one ultimate goal: being the person I want to, and living with intention. Along with all of this comes another goal: deciding what I really want to do with the rest of my life, and actively pursuing it. My future had become so tied up with what my STBXH's goals and dreams were, and his dreams were so specific and inflexible that I lost any real choice in the matter. When he left--and more so, when I realized our marriage really was over--that direction and endpoint vanished. Now, I can do anything I want. I can go anywhere I choose. It's a little overwhelming. But I think the answer will make itself clear and refine itself as I move forward with the other, smaller, more immediate goals.

Thirteen days and counting, peeps!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> Why did I think you were already officially done?
> 
> Meh, so much going on.
> 
> ...


Well, I've been done emotionally for a little while now, it's just taken me a little longer to get the paperwork done.

Seven days out, peeps! :smthumbup:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Saw this on FB today, and wanted to share:










Six more days, peeps.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

*Four days left!!!*

I am feeling really good about things, peeps. Things are looking up -- have been for a while. Work is getting crazy, but the social life has been good, and for the last month or so I can say --honestly--that I am the happiest I've been in years. YEARS. And the people who know me best say that it shows.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Tomorrow's the big day, peeps. 

Feeling a little sedate about the whole thing.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Best of luck to you! It will be ok.:smthumbup:

Also make sure you exercise that morning to so you're a little less stressed, and bring a book or an Ipod or something because you may end up having a lot of downtime waiting in court.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Thanks, 2gals. I'm sure it will be fine. I might have some probs sleeping tonight, though.

Nsweet, I won't be able to get any exercise in, but I may get off the Metro a stop early so I can walk a little beforehand, if the weather cooperates. And I'm anticipating a wait -- I always take a book and my ipod, everywhere I go


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Awesome. (Note sarcasm.) I just found out that the DC govt is opening on a two-hour delay tomorrow morning due to weather. My hearing time is scheduled for 10 am. Is this going fvck up my hearing time?


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Thanks, 2gals. I'm sure it will be fine. I might have some probs sleeping tonight, though.
> *That sounds about right if memory serves me. I don't think I slept more than a few hours before mine.*
> 
> Nsweet, I won't be able to get any exercise in, but I may get off the Metro a stop early so I can walk a little beforehand, if the weather cooperates. And I'm anticipating a wait -- I always take a book and my ipod, everywhere I go


You'll be fine. You may feel a little disappointed or want to cry a little afterwards, we all did, but you'll get through it. 

So (almost single) FeministInPink, what are you going to do with your new freedom? Any plans to treat yourself tomorrow or try any new things? I'm not hitting on you, just trying to get you thinking about the positives.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I AM FREE!!!! As of 11:18 am this morning, I am a FREE WOMAN!!!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> You'll be fine. You may feel a little disappointed or want to cry a little afterwards, we all did, but you'll get through it.
> 
> So (almost single) FeministInPink, what are you going to do with your new freedom? Any plans to treat yourself tomorrow or try any new things? I'm not hitting on you, just trying to get you thinking about the positives.


I didn't imagine that you were hitting on me, Nsweet 

You know, this whole thing has been about positives and trying new things, ever since we separated. Not to say that I haven't had my difficult moments, but for the most part it's been positive. As for new things? I've been pushing myself a little bit in terms of things that I've been scared to do before (like when I went to Disney World last April and went on all the rides that terrified me previously), and challenging myself (like buying a manual transmission, learning on the lot how to drive it, and driving it home into the city), and trying new things (like joining a softball league).

In terms of treating myself, well, I bought myself a new pair of shoes yesterday! It was very nice to be able to buy a new pair of heels without my NOW EX-HUSBAND shaming me for buying something which he deems unnecessary and "cluttering." And I wore said shoes, along with a new, cute outfit to the courthouse, so I was feeling pretty good about myself when I got there this morning.

Right now, I'm going to treat myself to a drink and something delicious for lunch


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Enjoy every delicious morsel of your freedom luncheon! Congratulations I bet you are glowing!


I am certainly glowing, but I think that's partially due to the alcohol 

But seriously, I feel great. Liberation is a wonderful thing. My family isn't sure how to react (I've spoken to my mom, dad, and sis), but I know it's a good thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Just like removing a splinter, eh? 

So relieving to finally get rid of an annoying little prick.:rofl:


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm still processing "buying a manual transmission, learning on the lot how to drive it, and driving it home into the city"... in DC?!?

Wow. You are braver/nuttier than I am... and that is saying something.

I've known how to drive a manual since I was 10, but teaching my daughter last year - in an empty parking lot - was an exercise in sheer terror. I'm just glad you weren't my ride the day you did that.

Congrats on your freedom. Enjoy! :smthumbup:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Honorbound said:


> I'm still processing "buying a manual transmission, learning on the lot how to drive it, and driving it home into the city"... in DC?!?
> 
> Wow. You are braver/nuttier than I am... and that is saying something.
> 
> ...


Ha ha, yes, I really did that, in DC!!! And I love driving the manual now. I'll never go back to an automatic -- even in the city.

(It wasn't as bad as all that, Mick - my sales associate/teacher - said I picked it up pretty easily, and it's not like I'm a new driver in terms of an automatic. And I did my homework beforehand.)

And, according to my mom's boss, I have "serious balls." I figure, there's no better time than the present to live the life that I want. Maybe that takes balls, cajones, chutzpah, whatever. I say whoever DOESN'T is the nutty one.

And I AM enjoying my freedom. I'm having fun and enjoying my life, and working towards being the person I want to be.

Oh, and did I mention I quit smoking on Monday, in addition to getting divorced? It was a banner day!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Just like removing a splinter, eh?
> 
> So relieving to finally get rid of an annoying little prick.:rofl:


I see what you did there. I like it.

:rofl:


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