# Is the 180 for me?--She is an awesome gal but



## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

she treats me personally pretty badly sometimes; I feel like the last priority. She is loving, kind and big hearted. A great mother and connected with and caring of both our families. It is difficult to love her sometimes

*I have posted similarly several times but just trying to figure out how to move fwd and use the TAM community as inspiration. *
Background-- married 7.5 years, together 10, 2 kids--young both 5 and 2 yrs. 

I think I spent several years waiting on her hand and foot. Spoiling her. The sex went away quickly but i always want to make her happy. 

One note- -I am NOT clingy. I think I get a little desparate when no sex for awhile though. I do not like talking on the phone, texting, etc all day. 

We just started MC and both like the therapist but not very far into it. She had an individual session last week and said it was very good and she asked the therapist if there were couples that 'lost the intimacy' and got it back-- so wife is aware of issues. 

So last Thursday, wife is sick-- head cold. She gets home from class and goes right to bed. I get the kids dinner, baths, make her soup, get the kids to bed later. Check on her to make sure she doesnt need anything. 

Friday-- we both go to bed early-- around 9 pm. I wake up at 6 am sat morn and trying to go back to sleep roll over and put my arm around her. 
Later, 730 am or so, kids wake up, she still wants to sleep, i take them downstairs, close bed door so she can sleep. She gets up around 10 and when she comes down is in a good mood but tells me not to 'wake her up' when she is sleeping. She says when i touch her in the morning it wakes her up. We talk about the sex thing a little and how i would have liked it that morning. She talks a little about ** how she needs me to man up, be myself but a "stronger [my name]"*** I know this is important to do also. 

Sat- I go to my dads and watch a football game about 11. She has friends in town and has plans to go out for her gf birthday and stay at her appt to avoid driving while drinking. I get home at 3 and she leaves at 330. Not a big deal, I am glad for her to go out and have fun (and she is ok with me doing the same, however we rarely do it just the two of us). She leaves about 330pm. 

Sunday morn-- I am getting the cold that she and kids had last week. She did text me sat night when she got back to her friends. I let her know in the morn I am not feeling well; she comes home around 11 or so and says ok for me to go lay down. She lays on the couch downstairs with the kids. I try to sleep but my head is pounding so i go to store to get medicine (she is asleep on the couch, kids playing). I finally fall asleep in our be about 330p. She wakes me up at 4 saying she has to shower and run two quick errands. I feel pretty [email protected] after just a short nap and getting sick, but i get up, she doesnt leave until 5 or so but is gone for nearly 2 more hours. While she is gone-- turns out just hanging out at her brother and sister in laws for most of the time- my sick *ss is making the kids dinner and getting them to bed. By that time I am really annoyed and call her. 

So...she gets home and I get a little upset. Never anything physical. I guess more pouty though I make it clear she was very inconsiderate. (i took care of her when she was sick, she took off when i was sick; she woke me up for no reason when i was sick, she got mad at me for waking her up accidentally after she had slept for 10 hours, etc). 

She made some small talk but i was not interested so she went up to bed and slept on the couch under the guise that i was sick plus wanted to watch football and she wanted her shows. 

I am sorry for the multiple posts and the very long post. I am trying to figure out what I can do to be happy again. I feel like a doormat-- this has nothing to do with PA or EA, just a situation that I created over the years. 

One of my problems is that when I get upset, I kind of withdraw. She says she is sorry, I kind of grunt or say ok, annoyed, eventually it goes away, but in the end I get treated badly again. 

Not sure how to break that cycle. 

My first goal is to come home and focus on the kids-- be happy and enjoy being with them.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

That's not 'awesome' at all: that's disrespectful. She fell asleep on the couch after telling you to rest because you were sick (after you waited on her hand and foot and cared for the kids when she was sick), and then she lied about running errands by stopping her brother's house.

She has double standards. Not awesome at all. I wish I had ideas of how to overcome the resentment. This thread and your other one make clear that she's not meeting your needs in many ways.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

well, just to clarify, she is very giving...just not so much to me personally.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

deleted duplicate posting.

See post below


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

MO:

I don't know how to break this to you gently, and I do think sometimes people need to be bashed over the head with the truth in order to wake up, so here goes:

You sound like the description of her husband my former affair partner gave me. 

My AP frequently told me that her husband treats her like a queen, but she is no longer attracted to him. 

The meaner she is to him, the nicer he treats her, and she said she totally lost respect for him as well as sexual interest in him. 

It's sad from my perspective. 

The APs husband was informed of the affair, yet his clever wife continued to lie and spin her way out of it, claiming we only met for coffee. 

She was the sexual initiator and aggressor in the affair, yet she convinced him that the opposite is true. I have emails and texts that prove otherwise, but when my wife wanted to show him, he became angry at her. 

He not only believed her lies but is pampering her even more since thinking she had another man who was trying to initiate an affair, but whom she successful warded off. 

Also, with your wife gone for two hours to go to the store, are you sure she wasn't meeting someone else. 

Did you ensure that she was in fact with your in-laws and that they are not covering for her?

Also, my affair partner was also very giving to me and friends and everyone but her husband. She told me she just did not respect him and that caused her to lose interest in him sexually. 

This spoiled pampered women, had maids, never cooked, her husband paid for frequent spa treatments, and girl's night's out and girl's only vacations. 



Mo42 said:


> she treats me personally pretty badly sometimes; I feel like the last priority. She is loving, kind and big hearted. A great mother and connected with and caring of both our families. It is difficult to love her sometimes
> 
> *I have posted similarly several times but just trying to figure out how to move fwd and use the TAM community as inspiration. *
> Background-- married 7.5 years, together 10, 2 kids--young both 5 and 2 yrs.
> ...


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

rs, I agree with you that I am too nice to her, or rather have been. While I still want to take care of her, the emotional strain has a way of beating you down and I am not doing this as much. 

She was at her brothers, she told me that was one of her errands but that she just was dropping something off. She stayed there. 

The bottom line for me at this point is how do i change this? Obviously I stop doing so much but i have kids i want to care for and also to turn it off for me seems like anger. Sometimes it is anger. 

What exact actions do I take, how do i act? 

The only thing I have so far is to come home from work and be happy and playful with my kids.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Mo42 said:


> rs, I agree with you that I am too nice to her, or rather have been. While I still want to take care of her, the emotional strain has a way of beating you down and I am not doing this as much.
> 
> She was at her brothers, she told me that was one of her errands but that she just was dropping something off. She stayed there.
> 
> ...


There are others here that can chime in and help you regain your alpha stance in your marriage. 

Here are some things you can start with. 

Join a health club with a babysitting service, and bring the kids, to work out, if she does not take care of them well. 

Get yourself buff and buy yourself some nice clothing. 

When she goes out for two hours, hire a babysitter, and go out yourself. Get a few reliable referenced baby sitters lined up in advance so, you can call them spontaneously. When she gets home and sees you gone, explain that you thought she wouldn't mind because she often goes off alone for two hours or more. 

Tell her you are going shopping or to work out or to the library or a quiet internet cafe. 

Stop being Mr. Mom. 

Be pleasant to her but not solicitous and treat her like roommate rather than a wife. It seems as if she is acting like a roommate, by complaining when you cuddled her. 

Let the house get messy. 

Ensure the kids are fed and clean, but why worry about cleaning the house, if she doesn't?

Also, get yourself some hobbies, or join a club you only are interested in, or take a class you only would like. 

She is not acting like the center of your world, so why treat her as if she is. 

Show her you can be perfectly happy in life, without her at your side.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I hate to say this but in my opinion its too late to change the dymamic of this relationship. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. If you suddenly did the 180 I don't see her being afraid to lose you. I see her and everyone else in your life looking at you like the guy they used to know was abducted by aliens. It would come across as a drastic change in your personality.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Forget the 180. Understand what it is that your missing.

Mo, if I understood well you read NMMNG and MMSLP. 

Did you ever start the breaking free exercises or a MAP?

I'd suggest Dr Glover's book and the BFEs first. 

Read Boundaries in a Marriage by Townsend, too. 

She has no problem being herself, but you do, and she knows it.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

And BTW, start working on stopping that passive aggressive victim puke crap. 

Confidant men don't act like victims. 

Those displays turn off a woman faster than begging for sex.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> she treats me personally pretty badly sometimes; I feel like the last priority. She is loving, kind and big hearted. A great mother and connected with and caring of both our families. It is difficult to love her sometimes


As Tiki said, she's not awesome at all. She's just awesome to other people. So what? I would much rather have a wife who is awesome to me, but has trouble getting along with our extended families than a wife who is everybody's favorite, but treats me like the butler.



> We talk about the sex thing a little and how i would have liked it that morning. She talks a little about ** how she needs me to man up, be myself but a "stronger [my name]"*** I know this is important to do also.


There's your invitation right there. She told you that she NEEDS you to man up and you just let it pass. You have dropped the ball. Man up. Man up. Man up. If you don't, she'll find someone who will.



> Sat- I go to my dads and watch a football game about 11. She has friends in town and has plans to go out for her gf birthday and stay at her appt to avoid driving while drinking. I get home at 3 and she leaves at 330. Not a big deal, I am glad for her to go out and have fun (and she is ok with me doing the same, however we rarely do it just the two of us). She leaves about 330pm.


This is an issue. You didn't get married to have a roommate that you can live parallel lives with. You got married to share a life. So do more activities as a family/couple.



> So...she gets home and I get a little upset. Never anything physical. I guess more pouty though I make it clear she was very inconsiderate.


There are two ways to address inconsiderate behavior with your wife. You can either let it go completely and not even mention it, or you can confront her as an adult. Don't get pouty. Get angry. Acting like a weak-willed, petulant child will result in your wife seeing you as such.



> I am sorry for the multiple posts and the very long post. I am trying to figure out what I can do to be happy again. I feel like a doormat-- this has nothing to do with PA or EA, just a situation that I created over the years.


What you can do is change. In fact, it is the ONLY thing you can do that has any chance of working. Stop being a doormat. Stop feeling like you need to apologize for being angry when your wife treats you badly. She should apologize when she does this. Man up.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> The bottom line for me at this point is how do i change this? Obviously I stop doing so much but i have kids i want to care for and also to turn it off for me seems like anger. Sometimes it is anger.


Anger is a reasonable response when someone takes advantage of you. Do you think you have no right to act reasonably? Why?

Stop being afraid of anger.



> What exact actions do I take, how do i act?


You decide what you need and what you're willing to risk. If you feel the need to keep her happy, at all costs, then stop complaining and commit yourself to being her butler. She will likely continue to treat you poorly. And, there is a decent chance that she will cheat on you, if she hasn't already. But, you won't waste time wishing and hoping that she changes her behavior.

If you want her to change her behavior, and you're willing to risk losing her if she refuses to act reasonably, then you need to change. Man up and see how she reacts. Run the MAP.



> The only thing I have so far is to come home from work and be happy and playful with my kids.


That has little to do with your wife. It sounds like your wife wants little to do with you. You seem to be accommodating her, rather than forcing her to deal with the issue.

Good luck.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. I appreciate it. 


I like the ideas of going and doing stuff on my own-- library etc.-- however not sure what THAT has to do with my wife either. 

Agreed on the parrallel lives stuff. Typically in the past we would do things as a family and we usually still do-- lots of kids stuff the four of us do together-- though not as much with just the two of us. Usually if it is going out or something, there are others with us or we go out separately w/ our friends. 

I do already work out at work 3-4 times a week. 


The reason I mentioned focusing on the kids is that I am trying to focus my mind now on how I can act when I get home; instead of attention directly and immediately to her that is something I can do, be happy about and towards something other than her. 

I am trying to clear my head now and focus so I know how I am going to be when I get home. Happy but a little distant, right? Does this make sense at all?


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Also, just FYI, it isnt my wife wants little to do with me. Yes from what I have said I can see why you would say that, however when I get home from work she will want to talk 'about the day' and want my attention. And then she often asks if i want to watch so and so show when we go to bed. So...she is definitely not ignoring me.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

The other posters have given you good advice.
Your fair and you treat her very good,but
sometimes you need to say no and hold your
ground.

I imagine confrontation is one thing you hate,
but you are the only one that can stand up
for yourself.You have trained your wife up
to this point of what you will put up with.

When your being taken advantage of stop
it and change it.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Mo42 said:


> Thanks for the responses. I appreciate it.
> 
> I like the ideas of going and doing stuff on my own-- library etc.-- however not sure what THAT has to do with my wife either.


This is the Men's Clubhouse so I'll speak freely here. In a perfect world you would have married a woman that appreciated what you do and reciprocated in kind. There are women who can endure princess treatment and still respect their husbands.

The woman you married however isn't like this. Based on what you posted she is the type of woman you need to keep off balance, other wise she'll treat you like crap. In other word's she needs to be thinking in the back of her mind that you are fine without her, heck maybe even better off. It will be hard if not impossible for you to change this dynamic, because you've set a different precedent.

I have some tips for you. They might be a bit unethical but I think your situation is dire. Next time she asks you how was work, make up a story about some cute woman at work that's flirting with you. Get a new haircut. Come home smelling like cologne from time to time. "Work late" on occasion. Do everything you can to create the illusion that she should be lucky she has you because you're a catch. I know its playing dirty but based on your posts I think its your only hope.

P.S. If for some reason after mentioning the imaginary cute woman at work she laughs at he notion that someone could be attracted to you, there isn't anything you can do. Accept your life or get divorced.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

nevergveup said:


> The other posters have given you good advice.
> Your fair and you treat her very good,but
> sometimes you need to say no and hold your
> ground.
> ...


ok...yes I am not good at confrontatoin. It gets to the point where I get so frustrated I just lash out I guess. It is an awkward anger. 

I know i need to say no when she wants me to do some things that she can clearly do, and have started to do that. 

dumb question here-- what exactly do i do to 'stop it' (being taken advantage of)? leave the house? Yell at her?


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## LivingBreathing (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't try to decide 'how you are going to be' when you get home; "just be who you are, very well." The thing you have to realize is that the more you chase after your wife the more she's going to pull away & the more you will lower her interest level in you. So don't beg. Don't ask her to do anything for you. If she's distancing herself in any form don't ask her why she's so distant.
Instead what you need to do is slowly withdraw yourself. That is become somewhat distant. You know the old saying. Pursue a shadow and it will flee from you. If you distance yourself then the shadow will pursue you. So what I'm recommending you do is going to take patience & self control. You gotta be tough. As another poster said, "At this point, you got nothing to lose."
Start living your own life - do things you want to do whether she likes it or not. If she doesn't want to join in, no problem.
Do not be so predictable. She's probable gonna be ticked off. Her problem. Be an independent thinker. She thinks she's got you down pat, well, challenge her perception of you. In other words, do not allow her to determine your degree of happiness. The very traits that make her "awesome" in your mind can, over time, again make you awesome in her mind.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

LivingBreathing said:


> Don't try to decide 'how you are going to be' when you get home; "just be who you are, very well." The thing you have to realize is that the more you chase after your wife the more she's going to pull away & the more you will lower her interest level in you. So don't beg. Don't ask her to do anything for you. If she's distancing herself in any form don't ask her why she's so distant.
> Instead what you need to do is slowly withdraw yourself. That is become somewhat distant. You know the old saying. Pursue a shadow and it will flee from you. If you distance yourself then the shadow will pursue you. So what I'm recommending you do is going to take patience & self control. You gotta be tough. As another poster said, "At this point, you got nothing to lose."
> Start living your own life - do things you want to do whether she likes it or not. If she doesn't want to join in, no problem.
> Do not be so predictable. She's probable gonna be ticked off. Her problem. Be an independent thinker. She thinks she's got you down pat, well, challenge her perception of you. In other words, do not allow her to determine your degree of happiness. The very traits that make her "awesome" in your mind can, over time, again make you awesome in her mind.


If she were distancing herself, I would not be worried about 'how I am going to be' when I get home. She would be easily avoided. 

She is not distancing herself. I dont want to ignore her but I dont want to fully engage her either, as if how she acted is ok and nothing to be though of again. 

Im quite certain she doesnt want to leave me; she told me to my face she needs me to be stronger. she has also expressed jealousy when I have told her REAL stories about women I work with. Not raging jealousy but little playful comments to let me know. 

So...thanks again everyone. I feel like I have not portrayed the situation accurately, and that I do have to think about how I want to act around her, how exactly to react to things that I find inconsiderate, etc, to get the behaviour to stop and also to get here to have physical desire again.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Are you referring to the books No More Mr Nice Guy and Married Man's Sex Primer?


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## LivingBreathing (Feb 21, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I hate to say this but in my opinion its too late to change the dymamic of this relationship. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. If you suddenly did the 180 I don't see her being afraid to lose you. I see her and everyone else in your life looking at you like the guy they used to know was abducted by aliens. It would come across as a drastic change in your personality.


I agree. At this point I do not think talking sweet is going to help any more than yelling. Go back to where you left your life and pick it back up and start living. Give her an opportunity to share in the good time.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

LivingBreathing said:


> I agree. At this point I do not think talking sweet is going to help any more than yelling. Go back to where you left your life and pick it back up and start living. Give her an opportunity to share in the good time.



Just trying to get clarification as some of the advice is vague-- 'start living' is a great mantra but I need to know the most effective way to implement it within my situation. 

Should I tell her I am doing this? 
Bring it up in therapy thursday? 
dont say anything and just say 'no' when she wants me to do something? 
tell her i am not going when she makes plans for us to do something? 
Should I just ignore her when I go home tonight and she starts chatting with me or should I tell her I am unhappy with how she treats me?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Mo42 said:


> ok...yes I am not good at confrontatoin. It gets to the point where I get so frustrated I just lash out I guess. It is an awkward anger.
> 
> I know i need to say no when she wants me to do some things that she can clearly do, and have started to do that.
> 
> dumb question here-- what exactly do i do to 'stop it' (being taken advantage of)? leave the house? Yell at her?


First, try to have a calm intelligent conversation about what exactly is bothering you. If she refuses to listen or to make adjustments. 

Don't yell at her, clearly that is not working, just refuse to do things, if they are things SHE COULD DO, or should be doing or that she dumps onto you unfairly without taking turns. 

Leave the house. That is what I meant about joining clubs or going to the library or whatever. 

Tell her what is upsetting you calmly and clearly, If she refuses to discuss it, or still expects you to take on the bulk of the house duties, then go to the library and leave things be. If that means leaving the house a mess. So be it. 

If it bothers her, she can clean it. 

Counseling is a good suggestion, but I get the impression you have suggested that and she won't go?

As others have oft mentioned at this site. Sometimes, in order to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> Should I tell her I am doing this?


No. It will take, at a minimum, several weeks before your wife even suspects that any changes you make might be permanent. More than likely, it will take months.

You want your wife to notice the changes and believe that you have permanently changed. Announcing that you are now following the MAP and will be changing your behavior, will only result in your wife believing that you are trying to manipulate her behavior. She won't believe it's permanent.



> Bring it up in therapy thursday?


If it's a joint session, no. If it's an individual session, I wouldn't go into many specifics. I would just say that you're changing your behavior to take better care of yourself and refuse to allow your wife to take advantage of you.



> dont say anything and just say 'no' when she wants me to do something?


You have two options that may work. First, you could simply tell her that you're busy. If she wants more specifics, have something that you're doing, or about to do, that could explain your unwillingness to help her. This is not confrontational. However, you must stick to your guns. She will probably want you to cancel your plans to do things for her. You can't do that.

Second, you can be more honest and simply tell her that you've decided to match her effort level in the marriage. Since she caters to your needs less than you cater to hers, you've decided to scale back so that neither one of you is taking advantage of the other. If she wants you to do more for her, that means she will have to do more for you.

This second method is direct and unlikely to be misinterpreted. However, it is more risky. She will obviously not see it as you do. She will likely argue that she does more than you do. It may devolve into an argument about tit for tat. And that's not good. You simply need to keep it vague and insist that you will only increase your effort when you feel she has increased her effort about your needs that you care about (like sex).



> tell her i am not going when she makes plans for us to do something?


Perhaps. Don't be afraid to make your own plans. If you want to do something Friday night, don't cancel your plans if she made plans that you didn't know about. And don't be afraid to be vague about your plans. Tell her you're going "out" with "friends," rather than going to see a movie with Joe.



> Should I just ignore her when I go home tonight and she starts chatting with me or should I tell her I am unhappy with how she treats me?


It depends on the overall strategy you choose. If you want to directly confront her and use MEM's thermostat method of matching her energy, then tell her you're unhappy. But I doubt that is the best strategy for you. You want to avoid conflict and want to avoid making her unhappy.

So, I would simply chat a bit with her and then leave. Go do something by yourself. Go "out." Don't tell her that you're unhappy, or anything else. If she wants to come, obviously she can't because she has to take care of the kids. Run the MAP hard.

Good luck.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mo42 said:


> dont say anything and just say 'no' when she wants me to do something?
> tell her i am not going when she makes plans for us to do something?


To follow up on what PHTLump posted, saying no runs the risk of sounding like you are whining or pouting. Get involved in things so that you are already busy when she makes these offers. Telling her that you already have plans does a couple of things:

1. Gets you out of the house and taking care of yourself
2. Shows that you don't depend on her for your happiness
3. Demonstrates that you are a person that is doing fun things



> Should I just ignore her when I go home tonight and she starts chatting with me or should I tell her I am unhappy with how she treats me?


After you have your discussion about why you are unhappy, I would not bring it up again unless she does. Then keep the conversations light and brief. Then go do other stuff, even if it is just paying bills or playing with the kids. Make clear by you actions what you are feeling.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The 180 that is passed around here on TAM is specifically for a BS to use until the WS ends the affair. It is not appropriate for what you need. 

But there is not just one 180. The 180 is a concept that a spouse can change their relationship unilaterally by making changes in their own behavior. When you change, your wife has to change. So the 180 means to start behaving in ways completely the opposite from the way you behaved in the past.

For example (not recommending this but using it as an extreme example), if you make a 180 and stop doing anything for your children your wife is going to have to change. She will have to now do everything that you used to do.

You see, doing what you have been doing all along will get you the same unhappy results that you have gotten out of her all along. So to change the dynamics in your relationship you change your behavior.

We teach others how to treat us. You have taught your wife that this is how you want to be treated. You did that. So now you have undo that using your own customized 180. These have to be real changes, not short term things just to get a reaction. The 180 is about you becoming a better, more interesting, happier person, AKA a more attractive person.

There are two basic things you that need to do for your own, customized 180:

# 1 -- Stop being a door mat. You will establish new rules for how you will accept being treated. Stop focusing on your wife. Change your focus to yourself.

# 2 – Get a life. You will change to become a more cheerful, strong, outgoing, attractive and interesting man. By doing this you get her attention. You will be someone she cannot resist.

#3 – work the change… as your wife starts to pay more attention to you, then you can ask her out for a date and start the romance part of your relationship up again.

Keep in mind that the 180 is about you. It’s not about her. But when you change, she will have to change. Up to now the focus of your marriage has been your wife. You focus on her. She focuses on herself. From here on out your focus is on you. This does not mean that you neglect your children. But you do put more responsibility on your wife to do for them so that you have more time for yourself.

Maybe here on the forum we can help you make a list for each of these two items that will get you going. The 




Mo42 said:


> I like the ideas of going and doing stuff on my own-- library etc.-- however not sure what THAT has to do with my wife either.


This is different than what you usually do, right? So it’s a 180 behavior fitting into #2 above. It has to do with teaching your wife that you are an interesting man. When you become more interesting she will want to find out what you are doing. You are getting her attention which you want. Plus you are happier because you are doing interesting thing.



Mo42 said:


> Agreed on the parrallel lives stuff. Typically in the past we would do things as a family and we usually still do-- lots of kids stuff the four of us do together-- though not as much with just the two of us. Usually if it is going out or something, there are others with us or we go out separately w/ our friends.


Your goal should be to work up to the two of you spending at least 15 hours a week together doing date-like things, just the two of you. This is what it takes to maintain the love and passion in a marriage.



Mo42 said:


> The reason I mentioned focusing on the kids is that I am trying to focus my mind now on how I can act when I get home; instead of attention directly and immediately to her that is something I can do, be happy about and towards something other than her.


Focusing on something/someone other than her is good. But if you focus too much on the children, then you free her up to be more selfish and to see you as a door mat. Make sure that you leave her 50% of the child care to be responsible for.
Make sure that you focus on yourself every day as well.



Mo42 said:


> I am trying to clear my head now and focus so I know how I am going to be when I get home. Happy but a little distant, right? Does this make sense at all?


yep


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

There are few things I noticed from your post that might need looking at


Mo42 said:


> I think I spent several years waiting on her hand and foot. Spoiling her. The sex went away quickly but i always want to make her happy.


Your wife clearly does not want to have sex with the domestic staff. This is what you are. You have stopped being her lover. You are supposed to be equal partners in a marriage. Being exclusive sexual partners is part of the deal you signed up for. 



> Sunday morn-- I am getting the cold that she and kids had last week. She did text me sat night when she got back to her friends. I let her know in the morn I am not feeling well; she comes home around 11 or so and says ok for me to go lay down. She lays on the couch downstairs with the kids. I try to sleep but my head is pounding so i go to store to get medicine (she is asleep on the couch, kids playing). I finally fall asleep in our be about 330p. She wakes me up at 4 saying she has to shower and run two quick errands. I feel pretty [email protected] after just a short nap and getting sick, but i get up, she doesnt leave until 5 or so but is gone for nearly 2 more hours. While she is gone-- turns out just hanging out at her brother and sister in laws for most of the time- my sick *ss is making the kids dinner and getting them to bed. By that time I am really annoyed and call her.


You wife had the same cold, so she knew what you would be going through. Far from being 'awesome', this incident shows your wife to be selfish and uncaring.

*She treats you this way because you allow her to.*

What you did is enter into a 'covert contract'. You expected reciprocal behaviour but did not state it or insist on it. You needed your rest. Understandable. Your wife should have known this and planned her day accordingly. As she didn't it's up to you to state your needs explicitly. What you don't ask for, you don't get. 



> So...she gets home and I get a little upset. Never anything physical. I guess more pouty though I make it clear she was very inconsiderate. (i took care of her when she was sick, she took off when i was sick; she woke me up for no reason when i was sick, she got mad at me for waking her up accidentally after she had slept for 10 hours, etc).


All this could have been avoided if a)Your wife actually cared about you when you're sick b) You spoke up early. 

You should have got your rest. She should have taken the kids with her to allow this.

Stop doing things that make you unhappy. Stop being a doormat. Stop pouting. Stop being passive-aggressive. Stop being conflict avoidant. When you stand up for yourself there will be some conflict. From this friction will come the spark of attraction. 

Your wife told you explicitly to 'Man up'. She knows what she finds attractive.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

So. We had a long talk last night and it boiled down to i love you more than anything but I am not in love w you. No sparks she said. I am trying to impliment a 180. Start doing things I like. Be in a better mood. And so on. We talked about divorce. She is scared but thinks it is not a matter of if but when. My problem at the moment is that I am in shock and can't sleep. Slept one hour last night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> She has friends in town and has plans to go out for her gf birthday and stay at her appt to avoid driving while drinking.


I'll bet that was a wild time, seeing how she is already checked out of her marriage and everything...


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## Self Help (Oct 22, 2013)

Mo, Give yourself a chance to absorb things. Once you do you will be able to make a calm and sound dicision. It might take a few days. I'm sorry you are there.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mo42 said:


> So. We had a long talk last night and it boiled down to *i love you more than anything but I am not in love w you*. No sparks she said. _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a red flag, particularly in view of the other behavior (being gone from the house for hours at a time, overnights at a gf's house). Common actions of a wife that is cheating.

Check the Coping with Infidelity forum to see if there are other behaviors that match.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

As TAG said, the I Love You, But I'm Not In Love With You (ILYBINILWY) is very often code for, "Another man is in the picture."

So keep a lookout. Check her email. Check her Facebook. Check her phone. If she guards these, that's another red flag.

Overnight parties are another red flag. Girlfriends are often covering for each other sleeping at boyfriends' places.

Start the 180 and run the MAP like a madman.

Good luck.


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## He'sallright (Mar 8, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your troubles, MO. I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest... A few of the issues you talked about seem to parallel my own, but not to the degree you've described or the outcome you just revealed. Thankfully, and i don't mean this in a bragging way, I started running the MAP nearly two years ago and have now reclaimed my "alphaness." (If there is such a word.) Still not exactly a picnic over here. We still have it out on occasion, but their is definitely a more healthy balance to it. Things are a damn sight better than what it once was... and are improving. I've empowered myself. I've bettered myself. Regardless of what may come, I am literally and figuratively a stronger man for the wear and tear. She respects that. The same could be said of you, if given time.

I was pretty bummed to read your last post about the ILYBIANILWY comment from your wife. So sorry dude! That's like the death nail in the relationship coffin... In all my years of dating, that was the one thing I could never bear to hear from someone. Even with the best intentions, it never felt genuine. It felt like a lie wrapped up in a pretty package with a bow-- and a cheesy hallmark get well card attached. I hope you're not taking it too badly, and that you're keeping it in perspective. I know that's all too easy for me to say. Take some time for yourself and let it settle for a while. Just remember, she's the one with the real and substantial issue here. Not you.

All indications seem to point at the very real possibility that she's cheating or on the verge of cheating. I agree with the posts above. You do need to keep a watchful eye on her to see what she's up to when she's out with friends. If it does come down to divorce, and i pray that it doesn't, then having evidence of her infidelity will absolutely help you out in the family court room. 

Keep running the MAP! Be good to yourself, dude. Live well. Love your kids. Love your family. Change what you can for the better, and try not to sweat the rest of it. At some point soon, go on an adventure! Get some of your best bros out on a camping trip and ******* howl at the moon. :-D
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

ReformedHubby said:


> I hate to say this but in my opinion its too late to change the dymamic of this relationship. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. If you suddenly did the 180 I don't see her being afraid to lose you. I see her and everyone else in your life looking at you like the guy they used to know was abducted by aliens. It would come across as a drastic change in your personality.


Not true. Mo find Tricksters threads and read them. He made changes. His marriage is not yet recovered but he has come a long way and he is still moving in the right direction. 

I am concerned she is cheating. There are many red flags. You may say no but you must look and prepare yourself. Do not ask her, investigate.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Sorry Mo I too believe this marriage is finished. I think you need to focus on your health and the kids now. Easier said than done to be sure, but your focus can't be on her. I suspect her focus hasn't been on you in quite some time.

I echo the statements by catherine. ILYBNILWY is almost ALWAYS affair speak.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Investigated possible affair. No evidence and she did offer her phone, fb, etc. 

I know it is still possible and that if she were a cheater she could do it anyway. 

We have counseling tomorrow and she says she wants to try. I stayed at my mom's last night and she texted me when she went to bed--- thinking of you. I love you...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> Investigated possible affair. No evidence and she did offer her phone, fb, etc.
> 
> I know it is still possible and that if she were a cheater she could do it anyway.


I don't take as deterministic a view on cheating as other people do. Cheaters need an opportunity to cheat and very few will cheat after being called out on it. Because of this, it is certainly possible to quash a potential affair before it starts.

It's good that there's no evidence. But, as you admit, there is still a danger. There could be another man she is interested in, yet nothing has happened yet. Or, she could be extremely sophisticated and using a prepaid phone or IM apps that leave no logs for you to discover. Or, there could be no man and this is entirely about you.

I still suggest you learn the red flags and just keep them in mind.



> We have counseling tomorrow and she says she wants to try. I stayed at my mom's last night and she texted me when she went to bed--- thinking of you. I love you...


If she's being sincere, then it's a good sign. It is possible to rebuild marriages that fall into disarray. The counselor can probably give you some good suggestions. I recommend you just keep running the MAP in addition to your other homework.

Good luck.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Thanks. 

I told her I am going to a movie Friday and asked her to go with me and she is. Is this wrong for MAP? 

So, counseling tomorrow and movie Friday.


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## He'sallright (Mar 8, 2012)

Keep investigating. It's great that she offered it up to you, but you have to take the extra step of catching her off guard from time to time. Whenever she sets her phone down and leaves it unattended, just grab it real quick and do a check on these things: texts, Facebook messages, and camera phone. Trips to the bathroom are perfect. A couple to a few minutes are all you need, really. Be quick and know what to look for...

Question... When she goes out with her friends, does she or her friends EVER post pictures on FB? I mean, c'mon... Who doesn't, at least occasionally, do that? Whether I like it or not, i always end up getting tagged in a picture or checked in somewhere by a buddy. If these things aren't happening at all, then definitely consider it a red flag. Her nights out need to be reigned in a bit. Yall's relationship is on the rocks... Girls night isn't so much a priority right now.

I am glad to hear that she wants to try, and that you're continuing with the counseling sessions. It'll at least help you personally, if not your marriage. Her late night text to you was JUST a start in the right direction. Don't put too much stock in it... Remember, that it was followed up with "...but i am not IN love with you" the other day. Her text should have been a phone call, in my opinion. She's got a lot of proving to do, and text messages are not gonna cut it. Its real easy to just text something cutesy to allow things to smooth over. I am not saying that IS the case, but i am saying that her burden of proof is much higher right now.

Thoughts and prayers...



Mo42 said:


> Investigated possible affair. No evidence and she did offer her phone, fb, etc.
> 
> I know it is still possible and that if she were a cheater she could do it anyway.
> 
> We have counseling tomorrow and she says she wants to try. I stayed at my mom's last night and she texted me when she went to bed--- thinking of you. I love you...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I told her I am going to a movie Friday and asked her to go with me and she is. Is this wrong for MAP?
> 
> So, counseling tomorrow and movie Friday.


Date night is fine, and consistent with the MAP. But, for future reference, movies aren't great for dates. Movies are passive. You sit in a chair for 2 hours and she sits in her chair and you barely interact with each other. It's better than doing separate activities, but not much.

For future date nights, go dancing, or shooting, or hiking, or on a picnic, or on a photo shoot in a park. Do something active. Hopefully, something you're good at.

Good luck.


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## He'sallright (Mar 8, 2012)

Not wrong, at all. Make it a date. Be calm, confident, sweet, and just a touch aloof. By that i mean show your interest and affection, but don't come off as clingy or needy. Don't psyche yourself out into thinking that this date is going to "make or break" your relationship. Have fun. If you're at ease, then she's going to be at ease as well. If serious discussion comes up later on, keep playing it cool with her. Listen. Don't get desperate. Give her the impression that "our lives could be awesome together. If you don't want any part of that, then i am more than capable of going on without you." make sense?




Mo42 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I told her I am going to a movie Friday and asked her to go with me and she is. Is this wrong for MAP?
> 
> So, counseling tomorrow and movie Friday.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

He'sallright said:


> Keep investigating. It's great that she offered it up to you, but you have to take the extra step of catching her off guard from time to time. Whenever she sets her phone down and leaves it unattended, just grab it real quick and do a check on these things: texts, Facebook messages, and camera phone. Trips to the bathroom are perfect. A couple to a few minutes are all you need, really. Be quick and know what to look for...
> 
> Question... When she goes out with her friends, does she or her friends EVER post pictures on FB? I mean, c'mon... Who doesn't, at least occasionally, do that? Whether I like it or not, i always end up getting tagged in a picture or checked in somewhere by a buddy. If these things aren't happening at all, then definitely consider it a red flag. Her nights out need to be reigned in a bit. Yall's relationship is on the rocks... Girls night isn't so much a priority right now.
> 
> ...


Thanks. 

The text was not a big deal as far as our future, i agree. When I went to my mom's 15 mins away, I did not know I was going to stay overnight. I was exhausted and fell asleep and my mom called her and said I was sleeping and would probably just stay there-- so for awhile she was just wondering what is going on. 
However, she DOES miss me when she is home without me. If she hadnt texted it would have bothered me b/c she is pretty regular with texting when we are apare. 

I did look at her FB from sat night and found pics of her and her friends. Im not going to make any definitive statements as I understand that she COULD be cheating, however I do not have any reason to believe that is true despite some checking.

I agree on the movie thing, HOWEVER i will say this, i wanted to see this movie and i dont go to movies ever, so I basically was going to go to the movie and told her and just asked if she wanted to go along.


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## He'sallright (Mar 8, 2012)

I see what you're saying about the movie. You were going anyway, and you just extended her the invite. That's cool. It's a good attitude to have about it, considering everything you've said about spoiling her. She's along for the ride...  Movie nights are fine, i think. It's a good place to START. Sometimes there's just not much to say, or that you want to say, and a movie is just a good excuse to get out of the house and do something together that doesn't involve a whole lot of eeeerr-- for lack of a better word-- posturing and maneuvering. You're in close proximity with each other and that in and of itself can be a good thing. wait for her to initiate any hand holding... Maybe consider a modest, yet fun and light hearted, meal somewhere afterward? Don't dazzle her with some five star dinner... If it feels right, then take her to a local pub or coffee shop. Be cool, calm, and suave. If she turns it down, then play it off like its no biggie. Go home and find something to do for yourself.

Have you thought out your MAP yet? If you had to summarize it with bullet points, like in a short presentation, then what would they be? Remember, it's about building up empowering yourself.

Here are some items on my MAP... I've already made a lot progress on many of them.

1. Lose weight
2. Get ripped
3. Dress sexier 
4. Pay down debt
5. Save money
6. Find more like minded friends to hang with, and make time for myself
7. Encourage my wife when she does something i appreciate and stop enabling her to do otherwise
8. make time for romance and activities as a couple whenever possible
9. kick butt at work and continue climbing the ladder
10. Lead by example and live well.




Mo42 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The text was not a big deal as far as our future, i agree. When I went to my mom's 15 mins away, I did not know I was going to stay overnight. I was exhausted and fell asleep and my mom called her and said I was sleeping and would probably just stay there-- so for awhile she was just wondering what is going on.
> However, she DOES miss me when she is home without me. If she hadnt texted it would have bothered me b/c she is pretty regular with texting when we are apare.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

I have not decided on a MAP yet exactly. Been thinking about a few things that you included including working out, being more focused/successful at work and clothes. 

I will say it is hard b/c we have two young kids so we either need a sitter or one of us has to stay at home. The sitter thing is ok sometimes but if we have to pay it has to be an occasion b/c we are living off only my income as she is in school (which is going to work to my favor as I know she is afraid to do anything now). 

Having said that, I am going to be getting out of the house more. I am thinking of a workout group that meets wed nights near my house. Looking at other options. Thanks for sharing yours as it gives me good ideas.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see 


Can someone explain this? Are there specific things that are typically said or done that are not real?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Mo42 said:


> I have not decided on a MAP yet exactly. Been thinking about a few things that you included including working out, being more focused/successful at work and clothes.
> 
> I will say it is hard b/c we have two young kids so we either need a sitter or one of us has to stay at home. The sitter thing is ok sometimes but if we have to pay it has to be an occasion b/c we are living off only my income as she is in school (which is going to work to my favor as I know she is afraid to do anything now).
> 
> Having said that, I am going to be getting out of the house more. I am thinking of a workout group that meets wed nights near my house. Looking at other options. Thanks for sharing yours as it gives me good ideas.


This is clearly why you're in this position. 

Indecisiveness! 

All this time here and you still are mulling over a path of action.

This will be your down fall.

Do you not see this? She is not attracted to a man like this!


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Mo42 said:


> I will say it is hard b/c we have two young kids so we either need a sitter or one of us has to stay at home. The sitter thing is ok sometimes but if we have to pay it has to be an occasion b/c we are living off only my income as she is in school (which is going to work to my favor as I know she is afraid to do anything now).


Why can't you ask your mother? I'm sure she'll pitch in if she knows your marriage is on the line.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see
> 
> 
> Can someone explain this? Are there specific things that are typically said or done that are not real?


It means that, if your wife starts to suspect that you are ready to leave her, and she doesn't want that, she may start trying to manipulate you and/or appease you to get you to stay, even if temporarily. And you can't trust her words and actions.

For example, since your sexual frequency has been low for a while, you are probably familiar with all kinds of insincere excuses of why she can't have sex and promises to have lots of sex at some later date. And all of that was BS.

Also, if she suspected you were preparing to leave her, she may even go beyond promises of sex to the point of her initiating sex. And if she suddenly starts initiating sex twice a week, it doesn't necessarily mean that she is more attracted to you. It may mean that she's just trying to get you to slow down and stay a while longer.

Good luck.


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## He'sallright (Mar 8, 2012)

Sure thing, man. I like helping out in any way I can. I see it as catharsis for me...  I promise, if you take some of those things i listed, especially the first few, and put them into practice, then no matter what the outcome might be for your marriage, you're going to be in a much better place in your life. Guaranteed. Give it some time and effort. (don't neglect counseling.)

In many cases, problems will begin to resolve after the significant other realizes or sees a dramatic and positive change in their partner. When someone knows they got a good thing, and they know they been rotten about it, they start to amend their behavior. Why? No onewants to lose a good thing. This is not so in all cases, mind you. It may be that you or her end up walking away and splitting up... Some folks just don't know a good thing when they got it, or sometimes differences ARE truly irreconcilable. Whatever the reason, you will be in a far better position to move on and find someone else better suited for you. 

I didn't realize that she's an unemployed student... That's an interesting detail... What i am about to say is not absolutely the situation for sure, but i do want you to log this in your mind as a "what if" for later down the road. When she said that she's willing to give it a try, it could very well be that she's "trying" to maintain the status quo until she has earned her degree, landed a job, and regained some independence. I've read if this happening to both men and women alike. It's plausible. Again, I am not saying this IS the case. However, if you're paying her tuition, and it looks as though this relationship is going to collapse, then I would seriously consider closing up your check book and telling her to go a'lookin for grants and student loans. I don't mean to come off as being mean spirited towards her, but i would hate to hear of her using you as a stepping stone to a life that doesn't include you. Make sense? Now, if she's truly serious about saving this marriage, then that's different. Ideally, you both should be supporting and helping one another get ahead in life.




Mo42 said:


> I have not decided on a MAP yet exactly. Been thinking about a few things that you included including working out, being more focused/successful at work and clothes.
> 
> I will say it is hard b/c we have two young kids so we either need a sitter or one of us has to stay at home. The sitter thing is ok sometimes but if we have to pay it has to be an occasion b/c we are living off only my income as she is in school (which is going to work to my favor as I know she is afraid to do anything now).
> 
> Having said that, I am going to be getting out of the house more. I am thinking of a workout group that meets wed nights near my house. Looking at other options. Thanks for sharing yours as it gives me good ideas.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## He'sallright (Mar 8, 2012)

azteca1986 said:


> Why can't you ask your mother? I'm sure she'll pitch in if she knows your marriage is on the line.


azteca makes a good point. Your mom is like fifteen minutes away, right? why not ask her to drop by at least a couple a nights a week for a couple of hours. Be honest with her. Tell her that you're trying to work on yourself and your marriage. It's for a good cause.

I don't know how much you confide in her... I would urge you to tell your mom that you're mapping is not to be talked about in front of the wifey. You don't want to give her (your wife) the impression that this is just some ill fated ploy to keep her around. At some point, you may want to disclose the MAP to her-- when you finally say, "Things are going to change around here... You're going to treat me better and here's why... I am a ******* steal and you know it. I DESERVE BETTER FROM YOU." For now, this should be just for you and your sake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

I gotta be honest. I am f*cking this up. We talk too much. Every night after the kids go to bed we get back into it. It isnt arguing it is just talking about what we want, what do you want, what do i want. I feel like parts of MAP have inadvertantly come out in the conversation and she already feels that it is some ploy. 

I have counseling at 11 with her. I feel like I should literally sit there for an hour and not say ANYTHING, just smile. The more we talk the more too much comes out. 

I have told her I know places where I have gone wrong in the past that would make her unattractive to her and in a sense I have told her that I want to, for lack of a better term, be a better man. I think she is skeptical. 

Is there anyway to fix this now? I screwed up.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

oh, I talked to DB counselor the other day. He said counseling would be a good chance to do the opposite-- she thinks I am going to try to get the counselor to try to talk her into staying in the marriage, but I should give three 'action points' that focus on myself to talk to the counselor. 

Does this make sense? 

We talked about

-doing things for me-- for several years now I have put off what I want to do for her wants

-be a better listener-- if I had heard what she was saying at other critical points I would have gotten all this already and been able to see what I was doing

-be more social and carefree-- this are characteristics I had when we met, now I am focused on kids and worried about money/future.

I feel like I should say NOTHING else. 

Thoughts?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> Is there anyway to fix this now? I screwed up.


Yes. Stop talking. Start acting. If your wife asks you about your actions, then tell her why you're doing what you're doing.

It's fine to tell her that you want to lose 10 pounds, or run a marathon, or get a raise, or whatever. It's not OK to tell her that you want to do these things so that she will be more attracted to you.

You're embarking on a journey of self-improvement. Period.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Yeah. I am going to try not to talk at the counseling other than what i stated above. 

The DB counselor said she has 2 core beliefs--

1) She believes she knows me-- no mystery left
2) "He's never going to change"

So I am only going to say that the person I was when we got married was carefree, fun, social and that has been lost over our marriage; that I need to be a better listen to really know what someone is telling me; and that I am going to start sharing my opinions instead of going along with whatever just to avoid conflict.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

So, just got back from counseling. She said she wants D. Her and the counselor started talking about D counseling to help us w. kids or some other nonsense. 

I kept saying, I am not here to talk about D I came here to talk about saving our M. Finally, I got up and left. Both her and the counselor kept asking me ot stay but I was not going to sit there and figure out ways to make her feel less guilty about not trying. 

Any suggestions at this point? 

I am thinking going dark as I have seen on here before.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mo42 said:


> So, just got back from counseling. She said she wants D. Her and the counselor started talking about D counseling to help us w. kids or some other nonsense.
> 
> I kept saying, I am not here to talk about D I came here to talk about saving our M. Finally, I got up and left. Both her and the counselor kept asking me ot stay but I was not going to sit there and figure out ways to make her feel less guilty about not trying.
> 
> ...


Couple thoughts:

1) See a lawyer. You can't stop her from getting a divorce, so figure out how to protect yourself.

2) Move her to a different bedroom. She wants a divorce, so tell her this is how it will be.

3) Look out for yourself and the kids. She is not on your side right now. The sooner you realize that, the better.

4) Showing strength may be your best bet.

5) Look again at her potentially cheating. Cruise the Coping with Infidelity forums for ways she could be. I see a whole lot of red flags right now.


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## He'sallright (Mar 8, 2012)

Mo42 said:


> So, just got back from counseling. She said she wants D. Her and the counselor started talking about D counseling to help us w. kids or some other nonsense.
> 
> I kept saying, I am not here to talk about D I came here to talk about saving our M. Finally, I got up and left. Both her and the counselor kept asking me ot stay but I was not going to sit there and figure out ways to make her feel less guilty about not trying.
> 
> ...


I am truly sorry to hear this, Mo. :-/ I am afraid i didn't understand your last comment... Going dark?? I am hoping that's a typo or something...

My advice, and this is just my opinion, you have to decide what's best for you, would be to continue with the counseling. If you don't wanna go with your wife to discuss divorce, then that's absolutely fine for now. It's a lot to take in, I'm sure. Go by yourself and speak with your counselor about what's taken place. You probably have a lot to get off of your chest-- and a licensed counselor with experience in this area is going to be helpful. I am a bit shocked that divorce came out so quickly... and disappointed that so very little time and discussion was given to resolving issues. Again, so sorry dude.

Take some time to let all of this settle in. Find a good friend or family member to confide in about your feelings. Don't neglect counseling. When you're ready, start your MAP and commit to it 100%. There's no grantee that this will save anything but... again... no matter what happens... you'll be a better and stronger person for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Mo42 said:


> Any suggestions at this point?


Yes. Hard 180. Start your independent life today. Start scheduling individual activities, activities with your friends, and activities with your kids (no wife). When you are out with your friends, or by yourself, your wife babysits. Since she is a student with no job, she can do this.

This is to give her a very clear picture of both what her life will be like without you around to support her, and what your life will be like doing your interesting hobbies with your interesting friends. The 180 can sometimes pull a walkaway wife back into the marriage.

Also, talk to a lawyer. You may need to delay the divorce. Since your wife has no income, it will fall to you to support two households with your pay alone. If you can wait until your wife gets a job, you may be better off. Conversely, rather than delay until your wife can finish school and get a job, you may need her to quit school and get a job immediately. A lawyer can advise you on all of this.

The point is, don't just accept her reasoning and her timetable. You have every right to set your own course of action.

Good luck.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

If you haven't already, check your cell phone records and put a VAR in her car.


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## He'sallright (Mar 8, 2012)

I agree that you need to think about lawyering up, or at least getting some kind of consultation to figure out your best course of action. You need to protect your interests. Keep a close eye on her without stepping on her heels. Yeah, based on what you've said, there are a lot of red flags.

PHTLump's advice is spot on. Start your independent life NOW. Once she gets a taste of what the single life will bring for a divorced mom in school, with no job or partner to support her, she might just have to rethink her feelings. Sometimes folks throw the D word around like it's no big deal, because they're COMPLETELY guided by heir feelings, and they're COMPLETELY clueless of what splitting up really entails. Reality is usually not far behind.

Seek counsel, both emotional and legal. Start your independent life now. Come up with a map for yourself and run it with 100% determination.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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