# Divorce and Debt...need help plz



## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Well I am wondering if anyone could help me. My H has always been very bad with money.....very bad. A few years ago I took complete control and was able to build a savings and make sure all of our bills were paid and we were living pretty comfortably. Well H has A LOT of debt that he just pretty much ignored and let go. He has a great job but just never cared or paid attention to things. 

Well today I got a call and found out he has several judgments and tax liensI know this could affect my credit because we are married but as of right now they haven't. 

What should I do? I told him and he like usual didn't care and said that he will look into them(he wont...he never has and probably isn't going to start!) 

What does this mean for me will this has to be paid if the divorce go forward? Should I pull a credit report and just call every single person and give them his current info?

I asked him yesterday what he was thinking about us and working on it. I asked him flat out if he wanted to get divorced and he said he didn't want to do anything till he was 'ok' and his head was clear. That he just needed time to be by himself....we have been separated for a little over a month now. The things are changing for me I feel stronger and healthier I want my family back of course but I am also looking at the whole picture now. Even more so because he is talking to the OW/friend almost every single day that he has an AF with. I truly believe he isn't even attempted to work on himself(he admitted this said he has been too worried about money too because of all the child support and other stuff he is paying )

Any and all info is welcomed I am sort of desperate:scratchhead:


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

Once again we have similarities. My husband is THE EXACT SAME WAY about money and debt. In my state the marital debt is 50/50. Any debt that occurs after separation is not included. I lucked out because for some unknown reason my husband has provided no record/proof of his debts in our collabrative divorce process. I'm guessing because he doesn't want to show how he is spending money right now. I think your husband's debt will only affect him until a settlement is reached- I might be wrong though..


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

cmf were lucky huh 

The thing is I could see him NOT wanting to file for divorce because of his debt and not because he wants to work on things. I don't know why but I could see him doing this. I could also see him saying that he just 'cant afford' to file. 

The thing is I am more then willing to fight for this family BUT I will not be used as a pawn. I will not sit here and be his wife in name only and have him talking to this OW and just living separate lives.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Marriage is a business and you have a wreckless business partner.

In the word of Donald Trump, I would call him into your office and say, "You're fired!"

It sucks. . .you are going to have to pay those liabilities back 50/50 but there is some time you have to cut your losses and move on.

What are you assets and what are you liabilities (tax and all) if you don't mind posting personal information? We can sort thru it together.

Are you in a positive net worth? In that case, you liquidate and split what's left over. If you are in a negative net worth. . .more complicated.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

We would probably be considered negative net worth. I have some stuff but it is in my families names and that wouldn't be changing anytime soon. I have been fairly lucky because it has not affected my credit at. We always kept everything separate other then medical and checking(which is no split). 

Everything that is wrong in his credit(which is HUGE) is in his name only but I guess that it doesn't matter.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

So I have to ask can I DEMAND the debt be paid before the divorce goes through if it gets to that point? because I could honestly see him doing nothing about it like he always has.


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## Neverwouldhave guessed (May 5, 2010)

No, you cannot demand that it is paid back. You would be 50% responsible for it. Are you _LEGALLY_ separated or only physically separated? When/If you are legally separated, any more debt he accrues in his name is his. Our judge restrained both of us from taking on ANY new major debt while separated (I don't really know what "major" means, but finances are ok for us.)

Speaking for myself, the legal decision was a good move. I could "relax" on several fronts. While it isn't cheap, the peace of mind is worth it, and should we divorce I won't have any additional expense.

I strongly suggest you not make any major decisions regarding your marriage with only one month of separation. Simply too emotional and volatile right now. After 9 months apart, yesterday my husband sincerely told me he wanted us to work out and and he would do anything to make that happen.:scratchhead: I have had to watch the affair in high gear, and then fade away. Hurt like hell, but I worked on myself (physically, mentally, emotionally,spiritually - every aspect.) and it paid off with a "new" me. I will live a happy life with or without him. My point is, protect what assets you have, send a message to your husband that you are in control and then sit still. That sitting still stuff is torture - we tend to want things resolved *right now*, but if you think you still love him it may be the best thing you ever do. I wouldn't have believed I would feel the way I do today AND possibly have a chance at reconciliation one month into the separation. GIVE IT TIME.....

I found several books very helpful, but may I suggest the daily devotional: Happily Ever After - Walking with Peace and Courage Through a Year of Divorce.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Your net worth is easy to figure out.

It's essentially all of your assets - liabilities = net worth. So you take your house, your furniture, your cars, your retirement accoutns and subtract your auto loans, your mortgage, tax liens and credit card bills.

That's it. Whatever the number you have at the end is a numeric representation of your marriage.

It usually doens't matter what names the checking account is in.

If you have $100,000 in a checking account in your name and he has $20,000, you each own 50% of that asset, unless otherwise agreed or stipulated in a prenup. (as a general rule)

To answer your question, I am not sure what your attorney would recommend but I would hope he would recommend all debts be satisfied upon dissolution of the marriage and if they couldn't be, then perhaps a payment schedule among each party is worked out.

I mean, my attorney is recommending a remortgage of my current property getting me off the deed (the asset) and the mortgage (the liability).

Or perhaps he pays the tax bills and you get the auto loan or whatever is negotiated.

I know it sucks but it does make sense in a way. Look at it this way - he has a great job and you enjoyed the fruits of that job and the fruit of him not paying his taxes. Now the taxpayor wants what was rightfully theirs paid. IN the eyes of the taxpayor, you both were living a life you should have never been living since you weren't paying your share. For you to cry, "Well, he didn't pay it. . .not me. . .". . .not good enough. You got to enjoy the fruits of what he provided.

So. . .this IRS debt should be satisified quickly IMO.

The IRS makes for a terrible lender.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Okay, now. . .as far as your husband and the affair and he's worried about child support (and perhaps alimony) and tax liens and all this stuff.

A. Boo hoo. Have him go out and have a beer, get drunk, have someone drive him home and face up to reality in the morning after the hangover. He was partying like the rest of the country and now the party is over.

B. Perhaps the way to rebuild your marriage (or finalize your divorce) is to lay it out. . .your net worth:

ASSETS in one column
LIABILITY in another column

Because that's it - a cold, hard representation of your marriage.

and ask him if we should work on this resolving this together as a partnership or if we should do this through attorneys. 

Either way, it's no skin off of your back because it will have to be done one way or the other. Any attorney worth his/her license is going to want to shake you of this albatross around your neck. It sounds like you both are going to be starting over, with or without each other.

It also sounds like he is basically escaping reality into another woman's breasts and if this other woman knew what deep financial crap he was in, with a negative net worth and other looming liabilities. . .well, she wouldn't want to get mixed up with him and be spreading her legs for him.

I don't think it's out of bounds to have a talk with her - not in a *****y wife way but in a professional, just letting you know he's got liabilities way. Be matter of fact.

Nobody understands the business of marriage better than women anyway. She'll catch the drift of what you are saying between the lines. Either that or she's an idiot and just sees a good job vs. a total financial picture.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Thanks everyone the very sad thing is the debt he has is stuff he brought into our marriage BEFORE we were married...I don't know if that matters? The other stuff is stuff he did without my knowledge(I know this doesn't matter  ) 

When it comes to the other women they work at the same company and I highly dont think she is willing to support him and will quickly realize how bad it is. She is a older women who doesn't seem to have her **** together anyway so who knows. 

I know we are only a month out and I am trying to not tie up all lose ends but it is hard. You are very much right I am just going to almost have to sit back and what him self destroy and just wait it out. I am just working on myself and being happy which for the 1st time in a long time I feel like is a real possibility. I think(know) he figures he can just waltz back in here when ever he wants so he is not worried about anything. The very sad thing is I don't know if that is true anymore 

He is going to be upset about the IRS thing but I am contacting them tomorrow. I honestly didn't know he had not paid state taxes for the last few years!! I didn't know that 3 years ago he didn't pay federal. I WILL not let this ruin me as he sits back and figures it will just go away in the fog he is in right now.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Should I tell him I am calling the IRS or just do it?


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## Neverwouldhave guessed (May 5, 2010)

As far as the taxes and the IRS, there is such a thing as an "Innocent Spouse", meaning you didn't reallize he was creating this mess. You need an attorney NOW if you don't have one already. Lord knows what else he has done financially, and what he is capable of when he realizes how bad it is. Heck, he may need a new Corvette to "feel better." Contact any and all joint credit card companies immediately.


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## Neverwouldhave guessed (May 5, 2010)

Do not tell him ANYTHING right now. Did he tell YOU anything while creating this mess over the years???


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

The funny thing is we don't have any credit cards! When I took over the bills I(didn't have any) and kept it that way. We paid for everything with cash or savings. We actually don't have any joint accounts which probably sounds strange after 11 years of marriage. I never really was into credit cards ect. Our cars are all paid off ect. If he can get a loan for a corvette it would be a cold day in hell!!

I know the IRS is not going to see me as innocent that is why I am wondering if I should call them or call an attorney  He will see me as calling an attorney as being defensive and get extremely angry. One time in anger he told me if I called one he wouldn't give me another ****ing dime.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

finallyseewhy~

I realize you are a responsible financial person and he is a mess, but may I suggest that you slow down a moment and take several deep calming breaths?

When we were divorcing, my exH and I agreed to split it so that his debts in his name were his (student loans, etc.), my debts in my name were mine, our debts were split 50/50 down the middle. So we sold the house for the loan amount--neither got equity or debt. The cost for the kids in private school, we split. So to some degree what happened during the marital years will be partially yours but also some of it you can ask or agree who gets what. This in no way stops creditors from TRYING to get it from you, but what's in the decree (or legal separation) is legal.

Actually the IRS probably/possibly could see you as an Innocent Spouse. This doesn't mean you were acquitted of his debt--it just means that they recognize he acquired it, he didn't take care of it, and so he is the responsible party. Make sense? If you are an "Innocent Spouse" they will not put a tax lien on you to collect his debt. So you may want to at least gather info about it and give it a try. 

Also, since it is starting to sound complicated and like his financial irresponsibility could harm you and the children, you may want to consider filing a formal, legal separation. Not all states even have them anymore! But that is a legal way to say "as of this date, we are apart, we are not responsible for joint things after this date, and we agree he pays this, she pays that, and here's how we will split stuff while separated." The paper he signed would surely indicate he recognized an obligation but it really is not too "enforceable" if he decided to just stop paying you; whereas a legal separation is just as "enforceable" by a court as a divorce. So it adds a little muscle and protection for you while he is in this very disloyal dizzy state of mind. Just a thought! Ultimately the decision is yours.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Your very right I just need to settle down and really let everything process for a few days. We are just physically not legally and I know if I went for a legal one it would hurt/piss him off I am not sure 

I found this all out today so I know I am not quite thinking right and need to really process everything. 

H actually just came over to get the kids and he was being exceptionally nice. It probably is because tomorrow he gets paid and is expecting me to cut him a break(not going to happen). I was in the midst of getting dressed and he made the comment I was always 'getting dressed' when he comes over and asked if I was purposely trying to be naked when he came over....which is not true:rofl:I just have 2 kids running around and do it when I can and I think this is the 2nd time it has happen. He also asked what I was planning on doing this Saturday and I just smiled and asked him why he wanted to know. I sort of snickered because he jumped me pretty hard when I asked him about where he was going the other night with the OW/co-worker. He then said, 'oh so I don't get any Saturdays anymore' I told him I just needed to get out and I didn't mind telling him where I was going and I did.

Tomorrow will be a challenge because he kept saying he wanted to 'talk' tomorrow and I know it will be about $$$. I just might have to turn off my phone.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

OH NO!! Did you forget to charge your cell phone again, finally? Rats, what a shame you forgot! heh heh (devilish snicker)


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

I think I am going to go to the bookstore instead  

I asked him STRAIGHT up when he would be bringing them back for this reason. When he said he wanted to talk I knew why. I told him to just go ahead and deposit the money in my account and I would talk to him later. This way he doesn't need to hand me the money and put on the water works and try to make me feel guilty.


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

Finallyseewhy- I would go for the legal separation. My H and I also decided on a set amount when he left. 3 months ago he just decided to stop giving me anything because I enforced a limit with him about the kids that restricted them from being around the OW. I initiated legal action in April and we are just now discussing support. It can take a long time and the kids and I have had nothing. My H had to face reality about it today and he is in major panic mode, grasping at straws, now wanting to get back together. My lawyer also let him know I would have to sell the house and move and that I had a job offer 4 hours away. His efforts are very insincere and my phone also was "accidentally" turned off all day. I just talked to him an hour ago and he claims he wants to recommit to the marriage- I questioned his timing and he blew up. He actually claimed it wasn't cheating because we weren't living in the same house then threatend me that he would legally prevent me from moving. I am going to have to avoid him while he is like this . Funny, he still takes no responsibility for anything and can not even fake being sincere. It is nice that his fantasy world is finally breaking down.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

cmf that is what scares me  I made it very clear when he left that this co-worker/OW/friend...what ever he wants to freaking call it! Is to NOT be around our children!! The ONLY reason I have not called their boss and the HR is because he could very well lose his job or be at a risk it happening. At the very least one of them would be transferred. Me and my children would be directly impacted if he stops having income. If I had a job I would not blink twice about it but I don't.


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

Be careful! I really only enforced that one thing and he stopped all financial support and justified it to himself ( and lied about it to everyone else). I had to start legal actions and it does not happen quickly. Try to save as much money as possible for now.I'm lucky that my parents have been able to help me out some.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Unfortunately you aren't alone. I've been in your financial shape almost four years. However, my situation is much worse--hard to believe, I know. And I've been separated over two years and been trying to process a divorce for over a year.

The best advice anyone can give you is to get a competent divorce lawyer. And a CPA is great too. Don't call the IRS! Let your attorney or CPA do that. State laws vary greatly on the division of assets and liabilities. For example, here in my state I am not responsible for any of the huge personal debt my husband accumulated. Since I did not sign any of those applications, they aren't my problem. However, assets are a problem--they are split 50/50. Even inheritances which occur after he moved out are subject to being split 50/50.

Now on to the other portion of your post....I really think you could be dealing with a "Peter Pan" trying to live in Never Never Land. You know they don't have bills to pay there! And life is totally dedicated to self gratification there--with NO responsibilities. You and I are "Wendys". The OW is a "Tinkerbell"; she is right there with your husband in Never Never Land". They are having one rip roaring party with no cares in the world. That's why his finances are a disaster. This OW will stay with your husband for awhile. Then life will get boring and she will flutter off to a fresh "Peter Pan" with money. At least this is how my therapist has got my situation pegged. There's a book titled "The Peter Pan Syndrome" (& I can't think of the author). It really opened my eyes. You might find it helpful.

Hang in there!


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

That is sort of what I am doing and is one of the reasons I insisted we got a day care right now so I can start looking for a job. It kills me putting my kids in day care(even though we found a really great in home one) but I knew I needed to start thinking as if he wasn't coming back. I just couldn't wait till something happen and I was up the creek with no paddle. 

I know my family would help me if push comes to shove but I hope to not have to go there. One nice thing is that I got pretty much all the savings so I have enough to hold me over for awhile(not to long but some). 

Once I get a job...which will hopefully be soon. If I get wind of them together I will not think twice about contacting who I need to. I know ultimately that doing that will probably end all with us but I will do it. I will contact their boss, his bosses boss and HR.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

827Aug WOW I am going to have to find that book because I think I am living it!! Thank you so much for your post its sad but it hits very close to home


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## joshmannix8 (Jul 2, 2010)

This is an interesting discussion. thank you for sharing

debt negotiation and settlement , debt management solution


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