# Mate guarding, confronting AP's, etc...



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

On another thread about infidelity, in this case it was at least an EA, the OP was being given conflicting advice about confronting the OM.

I can see both sides of the argument but I have seen confrontation, mate guarding and basic territorial behavior work far too often not to advise it for someone that wants to keep their mate.

I'm not talking about going postal but making your presence as your SO's mate known, leaving no doubt to anyone who your mate belongs to.

This is primal stuff. Being human, we must employ our higher functions in all aspects of our life but, we can't ignore the significance of our basic natures. We need to feel certain things to have a general sense of wellness and safety with our mates.

So this thread is for sharing stories about mate guarding, confrontation with would be suitors and generally territorial behavior between mates.

I'll start with the first post. I have a lot of stories, some ridiculous and others more thought out and wise.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

So a few years ago, Mrs. C and I went through the greatest challenge our marriage ever faced.

I was devastated by a terrible accident and emotionally unwell for a long time, I'm still recovering.

Part of our circumstances were a direct result of her unilateral decision about our life and her emotional blackmail/bullying of me to get what she wanted.

She has more than repented and has been extremely remorseful and supportive of me since so we are doing well.

During the rough spot, I had to downgrade my employment and found myself in a much more gender equal industry where interaction with and dependence on female co-workers was necessary.

I got hit on a bit more than I was use to and the co-workers often had lunch together or dinner after work about once a week.

I attended many times and got a look at life I never had insight into before.

I didn't have any fidelity problems until I met "D".

D is a woman my age who is a martial artist and has a lot in common with me. She was also attracted to me and made it known boldly.

I had a very unexpected reaction to her and couldn't help being crazy aroused just hearing her talk.

Nothing inappropriate happened and we became friends.

What I didn't realize was that D definitely had designs. 

This became apparent when I took Mrs. C to the company Christmas party.

The look of terror on D's face and the way her face lost it's color upon meeting my wife said it all.

D is a tall and physically powerful woman while Mrs. C is tiny and petite but you would have thought Mrs. C was the She Hulk from her reaction to seeing her.

Just making an appearance in front of a potential interloper into our marriage caused D to wake up to reality and she got solidly in my friend zone afterwards.

D actually took my advice and started a relationship with a fellow martial artist that I knew to be interested in her. They have been together over two years now so maybe it will work.

My five foot wife scared the **** out of a 5'9" warrior woman just by showing up on my arm.

Mate guarding and confrontation works.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

But we weren't talking about this type of 'mate guarding' in that thread. People were telling the guy to go confront his wife's 'boyfriend' and scare the guy off so he could 'win' his cheating wife back because SHE certainly had no desire to dump the OM. We're comparing apples to oranges here.

Actually, I never said mate guarding (or intimidating/threatening/letting your presence be known to the OW/OM) didn't *work*. I'm sure it does in many cases. :smile2:

My argument is simply that I see no *dignity *in having to resort to scaring off or intimidating my cheating spouse's affair partner because he refuses to do it on his own. I don't need to force anyone to 'choose' me because I've scared off his OTHER option. That thread is talking about cheating already taking place, not the situation you describe above. 

And in the case of the latter where it's an affair partner being 'scared' off, I'll choose the self respect route every single time. :smile2:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> But we weren't talking about this type of 'mate guarding' in that thread. People were telling the guy to go confront his wife's 'boyfriend' and scare the guy off because his wife certainly had no desire to dump the guy any time soon. We're comparing apples to oranges here.
> 
> Actually, I never said mate guarding (or intimidating/threatening/letting your presence be known to the OW/OM) didn't *work*. I'm sure it does in many cases. :smile2:
> 
> ...


I see two issues to deal with here. Having a mate that allows orbiters to get to close needs addressed. The OP had allowed too much distance to develop in his marriage and an interloper moved in.

Having OP make his presence known to the intruder might just take care of that one issue.

The wife needs to be helped to understand her destructive behavior and that is another issue.

Standing at the border to your home and protecting it makes everyone inside feel accepted and safe.

It sparks powerful emotions to see your mate stand up for your relationship and be willing to put themselves out to do it.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

I'm my personal experience... I don't think mate guarding works with AP's. 

If the AP wants your spouse, sexually, romantically or whatever other reasoning they've conjured up, or they are confident that they already have them hooked, I don't think any amount of mate guarding or confrontation will stop them. 

I can see how it could work with someone who is simply interested in your spouse but hasn't crossed into an affair. Or if the AP just wants to screw casually then move onto their next conquest. But if they have easy sex at their disposal and they know it's not going anywhere, I don't think a protective spouse will deter them. It might work for your spouse. 

Or you can have a role reversal and have the AP damn near mate guarding your own spouse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

bobert said:


> I'm my personal experience... I don't think mate guarding works with AP's.
> 
> If the AP wants your spouse, sexually, romantically or whatever other reasoning they've conjured up, or they are confident that they already have them hooked, I don't think any amount of mate guarding or confrontation will stop them.
> 
> ...


I think confrontation is in order with the predatory AP you are describing. Getting their nonsense out in the open is a good deterrent.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mate guarding can mean different things to different people in different situations. 

Mate guarding does not necessarily mean confronting an AP and confronting an AP is not necessarily mate guarding. 

In the context of infidelity and especially of a potential AP sniffing around a potential WS, I do usually advocate the BS/pBS confronting the AP. 

I believe the mate we pick and our home and family to be our biggest investments and the things that will have the biggest impact on our well being and how we fair in life. I see APs and pAPs as interlopers and direct threats to the sanctities and health and well being to not only our spouse and our families, but to our own well being as well. (Shall we all guess how much weight @bobert has lost in the last few months and what his stress and cortisol levels have been lately???) 

If we look out in our driveway and a car thief is getting ready to take off with our car, do we confront our spouse for leaving the doors unlocked and keys in the ignition or do we stop the thief from stealing the car first and then discuss future security measures?

I was a serial AP in my mid-upper 20s. 

I got confronted once. the WW was just some extra NSA poon and I had no emotional investment and no interest in an actual relationship. When an angry BS shows up on the scene - those are strings. And it's a hassle and it takes the fun out of it. I have never seen or spoke to that gal again. 

I believe that 87.3% of all OM are only in it for some quick and easy NSA sex and the moment it becomes any kind of work or hassle or anything that might cost them something (such as dental work, or a crooked nose etc) they instantly lose attention and move on to the next. 

There for I believe confronting an AP is simply sound business sense. It's protecting a valuable investment. If you came home and found someone digging through your valuables, you would confront them and tell them to knock it off right? why is this any different?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> I believe that 87.3% of all OM are only in it for some quick and easy NSA sex and the moment it becomes any kind of work or hassle or anything that might cost them something (such as dental work, or a crooked nose etc) they instantly lose attention and move on to the next.


Exactly. When the POSOM figures out what this is going to cost him ? NSA sex, FREE ego kibbles. Names of the game. 

BTW, most OM can handle a wife and a girl friend, but not two wives..... and, when you dump her sorry a$$.... guess what she becomes ?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I
> I believe that 87.3% of all OM are only in it for some quick and easy NSA sex and the moment it becomes any kind of work or hassle or anything that might cost them something (such as dental work, or a crooked nose etc) they instantly lose attention and move on to the next.


Now, however I will also add the flip side. 

While 87.3% of OM are just in it for the poon and will scatter like cockroaches in the light, the other 12.7% are invested in a relationship with the WW and if they are willing to stand up and fight (I don't necessarily mean physically) for the WW and willing to take the WW full time, the BH is pretty much screwed most of the time. 

If the WW thinks that the OM is a bigger better deal and the OM is willing to take the WW, then no amount of huffing and puffing and no amount of mate guarding or confrontation is going to get the WW back. 

The catch is the BH is rarely if ever going to know the difference and even if the WW is determined to ride off into the sunset with the OM, it will at least feel really good to kick the OM's ass and the resulting confidence and dignity will carry over through the divorce process and into his next relationship. 

If he confronts he will at least not feel as emasculated and defeated than if he just sat by and wringed his hands while the OM assisted her up onto his white stallion and rode her off into the sunset with him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now I need to make clear I am NOT advocating physical violence, vandalism or anything illegal or anything that will come back and haunt one in court. 

I am talking about a legal man-to-man or woman-to-woman confront that spells out exactly what is at stake and what the boundaries and limits are. 

The vast majority of the time, the AP will scatter like rats from a sinking ship. 

The times it they don't, it's not meant to be anyway and the BS will at least be able to sleep at night knowing they stood up for what was rightfully theirs and did what they could and they won't feel as emasculated and defeated for forward.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> if they are willing to stand up and fight (I don't necessarily mean physically) for the WW and willing to take the WW full time, the BH is pretty much screwed most of the time.


The BH is far-less screwed if he stands up and takes her. Good phucking riddance. She becomes HIS problem.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobert said:


> If the AP wants your spouse, sexually, romantically or whatever other reasoning they've conjured up, or they are confident that they already have them hooked, I don't think any amount of mate guarding or confrontation will stop them.
> 
> I can see how it could work with someone who is simply interested in your spouse but hasn't crossed into an affair. Or if the AP just wants to screw casually then move onto their next conquest. But if they have easy sex at their disposal and they know it's not going anywhere, I don't think a protective spouse will deter them. It might work for your spouse.
> 
> Or you can have a role reversal and have the AP damn near mate guarding your own spouse.



It's a complex set of factors and conditions. The problem is the BH isn't going to know all of the factors going into it. I advocate confronting the AP as a matter of playing the odds. 

My observations and experience is if the OM is just after NSA sex, then it really doesn't take much to deter him off of her scent. Poon is nice but if he was willing to work and wanting a relationship with someone to himself, he would be dating single chicks. 

However how it will actually play out will be up to the WW in large part as well. If the WW straightens up and ends the A from her end as well as the BH getting in his face, the vast majority of the time the OM will just slink back under his rock and scrounge around for other outlets. 

But if the WW continues to slip out and sneak back into his bed, he'll often happily oblige even if it means an ass-kicking later. Some of that will depend on how uncomfortable the BH will make for him. OM generally do not like work or effort or consequences. Make it hard for them and make it uncomfortable for them, and they're usually gone. 

But things change quickly if the OM actually wants a full-time relationship with the WW and the WW thinks the OM is a bigger better deal (BBD). If the WW thinks the OM is the BBD and the OM agrees to take the WW, that fate is usually sealed before the BH even catches wind of it and he is just barking up the wrong tree at that point. 

A lot of those are Walk Away Wives that pack up some clothes and take some pictures off the wall and move in with the OM while the BH is picking up carry out on his way home from work on a Friday evening. There ain't nuth'n that will turn that around.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TJW said:


> The BH is far-less screwed if he stands up and takes her. Good phucking riddance. She becomes HIS problem.


That may be true in the long run but no BS ever sees it that way in the beginning. 

And to be fair, no BS ever knows the true depth of the affair in the opening salvos on Dday. 

When you first get wind of an A, you never know if it is just the first few stolen glances across the treadmills at the gym or a full blown love affair where they have been siphoning funds to buy a house together and have been seeing lawyers and plotting their getaway for years.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I think confrontation is in order with the predatory AP you are describing. Getting their nonsense out in the open is a good deterrent.


It's not a good deterrent for @oldshirt 's 12.7%, apparently. There has been plenty of confrontation. There hasn't been any physical confrontation mostly because said AP is significantly larger than I am, and going to jail isn't on my to-do list. And he'd jump at the chance to get me in handcuffs in the back of a police car. He has a record, so he'd probably let me hit him then gladly wait for the cops. And if he didn't just "take it" who wants to take bets on the 5'10 guy who has been going to the gym for less than a week, or the 6'5ish guy who lives in a gym? He doesn't care whether she's around or not, he'll stand his undeclared ground and has a "what are you going to do about it, I'll do it anyway, I can do whatever I want" attitude.
@oldshirt, I've gone from 190 to 178. Not a crazy weight loss, but I've done little to lose it besides being stressed and miserable. I actually lost more than that, since I gained weight first from stress eating. 

When your spouse and their "former" AP show up at your house and said AP is blocking you from getting anywhere near your own spouse, or at every opportunity said AP tells you they are going to do whatever they want with your spouse, it's impossible not to confront. It just doesn't always work or have the intended effect. I think it can have the opposite of the desired effect, depending on circumstances. 

But I agree with @oldshirt, if the WW tells the AP to **** off and go away, they probably aren't going to stick around. As long as the WW is enabling it or in limbo, AP isn't going anywhere.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

bobert said:


> It's not a good deterrent for @oldshirt 's 12.7%, apparently. There has been plenty of confrontation. There hasn't been any physical confrontation mostly because said AP is significantly larger than I am, and going to jail isn't on my to-do list. And he'd jump at the chance to get me in handcuffs in the back of a police car. He has a record, so he'd probably let me hit him then gladly wait for the cops. And if he didn't just "take it" who wants to take bets on the 5'10 guy who has been going to the gym for less than a week, or the 6'5ish guy who lives in a gym? He doesn't care whether she's around or not, he'll stand his undeclared ground and has a "what are you going to do about it, I'll do it anyway, I can do whatever I want" attitude.
> 
> @oldshirt, I've gone from 190 to 178. Not a crazy weight loss, but I've done little to lose it besides being stressed and miserable. I actually lost more than that, since I gained weight first from stress eating.
> 
> ...


Your situation doesn't exactly sound like what I am referring to. I'm 5'10" but been fighting my whole life. You have any friends that could help you handle your bully? He doesn't exactly sound like he is behaving in a totally legal fashion.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Your situation doesn't exactly sound like what I am referring to. I'm 5'10" but been fighting my whole life. You have any friends that could help you handle your bully? He doesn't exactly sound like he is behaving in a totally legal fashion.


If I chose to take that route, nearly all of my friends would gladly get physical with him. Most of my friends are regulars at the gym. I have a friend who owns a chain of supplement stores and is far bulkier than AP who would gladly kick his ass. He's asked me to let him do it, I'm not letting him take that path. It's not a route I should take.

AP hasn't done anything illegal yet.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> But we weren't talking about this type of 'mate guarding' in that thread. People were telling the guy to go confront his wife's 'boyfriend' and scare the guy off so he could 'win' his cheating wife back because SHE certainly had no desire to dump the OM. We're comparing apples to oranges here.
> 
> Actually, I never said mate guarding (or intimidating/threatening/letting your presence be known to the OW/OM) didn't *work*. I'm sure it does in many cases. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
> 
> ...


I agree with the above. I remember when the girlfriend of my then wife's affair partner came to my house and wanted me to with her and confront them. I just laughed, and asked "why?". Once I found out for sure she was cheating on me there's no way I would ever touch her again, I found her to be repulsive, I couldn't divorce her fast enough. 

So confrontation to win a cheating spouse back? I don't see any trophy in that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hmm. It seems I was too wordy or vague in my OP.

This thread isn't about trying to get someone back that you don't want and who doesn't want you.

This is about before things head over the edge.

In the case of infidelity, this is only if the wayward is remorseful and/or the betrayed wants to preserve their marriage.

This isn't even necessarily about infidelity but making potential threats to your relationship aware of your presence in a very territorial way.

I know some on TAM have stories about good confrontation and mate guarding.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Here is one from when I was single.

A coworker was not feeling particularly loved or understood by her SO, I can't remember if they were married or bf/gf.

She opened up to me about past issues that bothered her and an attraction grew between us.

Her SO sent me a message, threatening me to keep clear of his woman and that he was a black belt in karate.

I wasn't worried about his threat but I was impressed with his desire to protect his relationship.

As crude as it was, I believe it did something for my coworker as well.

We did not proceed farther than work friends.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I can see both sides of the argument but I have seen confrontation, mate guarding and basic territorial behavior work far too often not to advise it for someone that wants to keep their mate.


Why would any self-respecting good man want to keep a wh*re?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If a man I am with isn't prepared to be faithful physically or emotionally, I am not going to bother to confront his AP. He is the one who I am with, not her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BruceBanner said:


> Why would any self-respecting good man want to keep a wh*re?


Not really the subject of this thread. I'm not going to reconcile in the event my wife cheats on me but others want to work it out if possible.

Confrontation helps in a lot of areas, not just infidelity.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> If a man I am with isn't prepared to be faithful physically or emotionally, I am not going to bother to confront his AP. He is the one who I am with, not her.


Not really what this thread is about.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobert said:


> .
> 
> When your spouse and their "former" AP show up at your house and said AP is blocking you from getting anywhere near your own spouse, or at every opportunity said AP tells you they are going to do whatever they want with your spouse, it's impossible not to confront. It just doesn't always work or have the intended effect. I think it can have the opposite of the desired effect, depending on circumstances.


Yeah at that point you hand over her dirty underwear and say here ya go. 

And youre right, if the WW and OM both want to be together, anything the BH does will be used against him and will make him look like the psycho. 

My W and I went through that with her previous BF before we got together. 

She would break up with him, start dating someone else and he would track that guy down and threaten him or get in a fight with him etc and the new suitor would say the heck with this and let her go. 

That worked until he showed up on Youngershirt's doorstep one day. He didn't get punched out but when he ran off his ears were ringing and people two blocks down street knew he wasn't welcome at my house. 

He did try stalking and harassing me. That got him a couple visits from the police department and a formal, written police complaint against him. The last time he decided to make a little drive by my house to see if she was at my house I happened to be out getting into my car at the time and it ended up being a high speed chase through town with me on his back bumper trying to get him to pull over. 

And every time he did this, she would get madder and madder and madder at him and the more she would cling to me and suck my #$%# for the favor of shooing him away. 

This wasn't technically an affair type situation as we were all single and she had technically broke up with him. 

But it is a testament to the fact if the OM wants the WW and is willing to stand up for that - it is a game-over moment for the BH.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Hmm. It seems I was too wordy or vague in my OP.
> 
> This thread isn't about trying to get someone back that you don't want and who doesn't want you.
> 
> ...



No, I think you were clear in your OP and like I said in my first post, Mate Guarding is not necessarily confronting an interloper and confrontation is not necessarily Mate Guarding. 

It's just too easy to thread jack and jump to instances of dealing with APs once that cat is out of the bag. 

To a large extent Mate Guarding is simply making public acknowledgement that you are your mate are a couple and that you intend to keep it that way and conduct business as such. 

Mate guarding at it's core is publicly declaring your coupleship through word and deed and standing for your boundaries and rules as a couple. 

This is going to sound very contradictory and perhaps even back asswards but the period of my marriage where I did the most active mate guarding and was the most territorial and vigilant was when we were swinging. 

That may seem a bit outlandish and completely counterintuitive because she was in fact having sex with other people, but it was in that environment that I had to be the most vigilant, assertive and protective of her with not only other men but with women as well. 

That can be a very harsh and unforgiving environment for men because women are the prize and the goose that lays the golden egg and they are the ones that are wanted by men, women and couples. Everyone wants a woman to join them and if a man does not guard his mate and establish his boundaries and ground rules from square one, he will find himself sitting in the car waiting for her and wishing he was invited to the party too. Any woman in that environment that is either single or has a husband that basically drops her off and lets her do as she pleases without his involvement is a golden unicorn and the Belle of the Ball. 

We were there to have sexual experiences with other couples and other women. But on any given night if there was even one man that she would want anywhere near her airspace, it was an exceptional night. And even if she did take a liking to some guy, he would also have to show me respect and gratitude and follow my rules and boundaries and at absolute minimum he would have to have an attractive women that was DTF with me and I would have to show him the same respect and compliance with their rules and boundaries as well. 

And the same process would take place amongst the women as well and the women could be REALLY nasty with each other if they felt that some other chick was taking liberties with her man that she had not signed off on. 


A swinger's club or party is basically a gladiator arena of mate guarding. People are there to have sex with other couples but it is a veritable minefield of boundaries and limits and rules - every couple has their own set of guidelines and boundaries and a major part of the whole dance is learning and following everyone's requirements and rules.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> My W and I went through that with her previous BF before we got together.


This sounds very familiar to me. 

Before my wife and I got together she was "with" a guy for about 5 years. She ended that and we got together. 

The guy started stalking her and me on a daily basis. Multiple times a day he'd drive by her house, my house, our high school playing music insanely loudly, to make his presence known. She was embarrassed. I thought he was a fool.

On one of his daily drive bys I was outside her house with her making out with her. He stopped and started screaming. He went to get out of his car and I hit his passenger window hard enough to break it. I don't remember what I hit it with. He got his panties in a knot about the car rather than my wife. The car was his stupid prized possession. It was enough for him to **** off for several months until we happened to cross paths. 

I was with her in my car. He was driving the opposite way and saw us. He crossed the median at an opening and came into our lane. Sped head on at us and turned down a side street at the very last second. I didn't even try to avoid it, no idea why. I wanted to stand my ground I think. I didn't think he'd actually hit us. My wife was surprised that he didn't cause a head on collision and kill us all. (For context, the guy took a gun to school and threatened another guy, burned down a portion of the high school, and wound up a drug dealer who killed a kid with a fentanyl overdose in 2017 and is rotting in jail - I googled his name recently and that was fun to read). 

Cops were called, while they were at my house dumb ass drove by my house. His music was loud enough we could hear him coming and warned the cop. Guy was wasted and didn't even try to deny anything, got himself arrested. 

In hindsight, it was a pretty ****ed up situation and I didn't take it seriously enough. But not being scared by his foolishness and smashing his car window was enough to get him to **** off for quite a while. So I guess there's that...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Your situation doesn't exactly sound like what I am referring to. I'm 5'10" but been fighting my whole life. You have any friends that could help you handle your bully? He doesn't exactly sound like he is behaving in a totally legal fashion.


The *only* 'bully' here is Bobert's lying, cheating, witch of a wife who *CHOOSES* to keep the OM in her life and has no problem completely disrespecting Bobert and their marriage in order to do it.

I'm just being honest, but what would Bobert GAIN by chasing this sleazebag OM off? That 'prize' of a wife of his by default because she can't have her boyfriend anymore? Pffft.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I've never heard of a case where the Husband contacted the OM and it has good results for the husband.
The OM is already having his way with the WW.
If the OM knows she's married then the OM already thinks the husband is his ****.
It's a practice in futility. 
And emboldens the OM.

Exposing to the OM wife....now that's a good idea.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> The *only* 'bully' here is Bobert's lying, cheating, witch of a wife who *CHOOSES* to keep the OM in her life and has no problem completely disrespecting Bobert and their marriage in order to do it.
> 
> I'm just being honest, but what would Bobert GAIN by chasing this sleazebag OM off? That 'prize' of a wife of his by default because she can't have her boyfriend anymore? Pffft.


His situation doesn't really align with the idea of this thread. You can keep asking me questions that I actually agree with but have no bearing on this thread but it has nothing to do with this thread.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

I think the biggest mate guarding tactics:
No Non Mutual Opposite sex friends. 

No sharing of relationship problems with any other than spouse.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I'm not talking about going postal but making your presence as your SO's mate known, leaving no doubt to anyone who your mate belongs to.
> 
> This is primal stuff. Being human, we must employ our higher functions in all aspects of our life but, we can't ignore the significance of our basic natures. We need to feel certain things to have a general sense of wellness and safety with our mates.
> 
> So this thread is for sharing stories about mate guarding, confrontation with would be suitors and generally territorial behavior between mates.


The mate guarding instinct is, indeed, primal. I mate guarded my exH even thought I didn't even like him. It was purely instinct and not at all in line with my intellect or emotions. It was all about not losing face, not being seen as weak, and not being taken advantage of in the future because I failed to properly guard what's in my territory.




ConanHub said:


> The look of terror on D's face and the way her face lost it's color upon meeting my wife said it all.
> 
> D is a tall and physically powerful woman while Mrs. C is tiny and petite but you would have thought Mrs. C was the She Hulk from her reaction to seeing her.
> 
> ...


It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of fight in the dog. If your wife gave off a vibe, for lack of a better word, I can see why the prospective AP might have been a bit...worried...for her own safety should she continue her behavior.

Mate guarding and confrontation can work, but I think it really depends the type of affair involved, the stage at which the mate guarding occurs, and a host of other factors.



bobert said:


> Or you can have a role reversal and have the AP damn near mate guarding your own spouse.


I think this is surprisingly not uncommon when the WS and AP have a longstanding relationship.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

bobert said:


> I'm my personal experience... I don't think mate guarding works with AP's.
> 
> If the AP wants your spouse, sexually, romantically or whatever other reasoning they've conjured up, or they are confident that they already have them hooked, I don't think any amount of mate guarding or confrontation will stop them.
> 
> ...


I will advocate for confrontation (which I did successfully, albeit long distance) over becoming a willing cuckold any day.

Even if the confrontation was unsuccessful, you still maintain your self respect and can look at yourself on the mirror without shame.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

red oak said:


> I think the biggest mate guarding tactics:
> No Non Mutual Opposite sex friends.
> 
> No sharing of relationship problems with any other than spouse.


Exactly. It really is this simple. The best and most common sense way NOT to have an affair is NOT to get chummy with an opposite sex person other than your spouse. The end.

As far as going to beat up an AP....I wouldn't go to jail over a skank lol. Plus I think in a lot of cases the REAL reason a man beats up an OM is the same reason he buys a Hummer 

Sorry, it's just too much fun sometimes. A man who uses his fists on the idiot his wife chose to cheat with is just a couple steps above the man who physically puts his hands on his wife when she cheats. It might be understandable, but it's still white trash.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

There's a difference between mate guarding and confronting an AP. I'm an advocate for mate guarding but am fully against confronting an AP with one exception. The WS is present with the BS at the time of confrontation so there is no denying it's the WS saying "I don't want you in my life anymore". 

Trying to be the tough guy/gal with an AP is a fool's errand and frankly dangerous. I have one friend who confronted her husband's AP and about lost her life. The AP "felt threatened" and pulled a gun on her. To add insult to injury, the AP laughed at my friend while recommending she put a tracking device on her husband's **** because if not with her, then he was going to do it with someone else. She was right. He hooked up with a different women less than 4 years later.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think there's value in showing up with your partner or otherwise making your presence known. 

The guy I've been seeing for a few months is someone I met cycling and we go to group rides together. These groups are mostly men and although many are married others are single and looking. I had others show interest early on but the fact that he's always with me telegraphs certain boundaries, so nobody bothers me beyond normal friendliness that can be done in front of him. 

Sending the message that you're a pair keeps a lot of potential issues away. 

I'm not addressing the cheaters..... only faithful couples. But even stand up people can get into trouble under the right circumstances. Making your presence known keeps a lot of problematic circumstances from happening.

Conan, I think this is the message of your thread.

Is that correct?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

red oak said:


> I think the biggest mate guarding tactics:
> No Non Mutual Opposite sex friends.
> 
> No sharing of relationship problems with any other than spouse.


That sounds like a healthy boundary. Not bad but not what I'm referring to.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

To add to my post.....

There is a lot of cheating in athletic communities..particularly in the running community because there are equal numbers of men and women. 

And it's much easier to chat about inappropriate things while running easy. When I'm on the bike I really can't talk much to anyone. 

There is a lot less cheating where the spouse makes their presence known. I see this all the time. Even if the spouse doesn't run the act of showing up to races and social events puts up barriers.

Never let your spouse go to events alone. Join them as much as you can. 

And if they don't want you there....well there's probably a reason for that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think there's value in showing up with your partner or otherwise making your presence known.
> 
> The guy I've been seeing for a few months is someone I met cycling and we go to group rides together. These groups are mostly men and although many are married others are single and looking. I had others show interest early on but the fact that he's always with me telegraphs certain boundaries, so nobody bothers me beyond normal friendliness that can be done in front of him.
> 
> ...


Yes and thank you for sharing an example. This thread can include cases where a potential AP or even a full blown AP were confronted about the situation but it is mostly about any story that has mate guarding and/or confrontation of a potential suitor)AP.

There is a lot of sway to simply telling someone you want them to stop contacting your spouse, especially if others are made aware of the situation.

Common sense should prevail and I understand that many are not equipped to handle confrontation but it has been proven to be a good deterrent in a lot of circumstances.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Yes and thank you for sharing an example. This thread can include cases where a potential AP or even a full blown AP were confronted about the situation but it is mostly about any story that has mate guarding and/or confrontation of a potential suitor)AP.
> 
> There is a lot of sway to simply telling someone you want them to stop contacting your spouse, especially if others are made aware of the situation.
> 
> Common sense should prevail and I understand that many are not equipped to handle confrontation but it has been proven to be a good deterrent in a lot of circumstances.


So you are talking about a situation in which there hasn't been an affair, but someone is obviously sniffing around your spouse, and you want to make sure THEY know you see it and will not put up with it. Like putting someone on notice. Not fighting to get back a cheater, but putting a preemptive obstacle in the path.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> So you are talking about a situation in which there hasn't been an affair, but someone is obviously sniffing around your spouse, and you want to make sure THEY know you see it and will not put up with it. Like putting someone on notice. Not fighting to get back a cheater, but putting a preemptive obstacle in the path.


Yes but with the caveat that it can be beneficial even if an affair is already taking place.

I do understand not everyone is able to confront effectively.

I have found that as much as a firm handshake combined with confidence and unwavering belief in your position is often like an electronic shock or a dowsing with cold water to potential opponents of my marriage.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

bobert said:


> This sounds very familiar to me.
> 
> Before my wife and I got together she was "with" a guy for about 5 years. She ended that and we got together.


Didn't you meet in HS? What did they start dating at 9?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I don't believe in mate guarding. If you want to be with someone else good luck. I am the catch.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Didn't you meet in HS? What did they start dating at 9?


I met her in high school, I didn't start dating her until we were 17. She was 12 when she met him, he was 15 or so.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I have two great examples--one involving infidelity and one involving mate guarding while in a relationship:

#1 - When I had my affair on Dear Hubby, one of the first things he did when he found out was get on the email and write to the OM, and essentially he said, "She is MY WIFE and if you think you are just going to take her without a fight, you are sadly mistaken!" Now, the words were far more colorful than that, but I'm keeping it G-rated  It also seemed like the first time he'd shown any interest at all in a long time, so it shocked me! In fact, it shocked me enough to drop some of the scales off my eyes and wake me up to reality. [The other thing that dropped scales off my eyes was the day he said "Go to OM if that's what you have to do but just know that if you choose that, you will not be coming home and that option will be closed." I knew when he said stuff like that, he meant it--he wasn't just talking to get his way.] This was definitely 100% one of the things he did that got me to think he was serious and we could fix it--that he would be willing to give me a chance. 

#2 - When @Emerging Buddhist and I go out, like on a date or anywhere, I hold his hand and look at him like I adore him a) because I do, but b) because I want everyone who sees us to know that he is SO SPOKEN FOR they don't need to sniff around. Nope, ladies, back off now 'cuz I got this one! :nono:

ETA: This is not about EB by the way--he's as trustworthy as the sun rising and setting--but rather he's a very handsome, very eligible fella and I am very proud to be with someone of his caliber.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Good examples @Affaircare 

Thanks for sharing!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I don't believe in mate guarding. If you want to be with someone else good luck. I am the catch.


I am right here with this post.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> So you are talking about a situation in which there hasn't been an affair, but someone is obviously sniffing around your spouse, and you want to make sure THEY know you see it and will not put up with it. Like putting someone on notice. Not fighting to get back a cheater, but putting a preemptive obstacle in the path.


To me, THIS is mate guarding. My bf is a musician, so sometimes women like to think they know him and can get access to him, just because they know who he is. I always make sure I am "seen" and that I do a lot of touching, LOL! :grin2:


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I don't get it, why scare off the AP when you can give him a handshake along with your worthless cheating spouse? His problem.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I don't believe in mate guarding. If you want to be with someone else good luck. I am the catch.


I am a catch and I mate guard.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I guard myself and I expect my wife to do the same. Besides if she wants to cheat she is going to find a way, now that being said if someone is coming on to her in my presence I am going to shut that down. That is different though because that is about respect. Thing is I can't be with her all the time so the point is kind of moot. The unfortunate truth is your relationship is only as safe as both partners boundaries.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I too am a catch, but won't mate guard. If it were necessary to do that to keep her, I'd be better off without her, and I'd move on to find someone loyal. I'd only step in if she asked me to, for example, if someone is not taking no for an answer.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I too am a catch, but won't mate guard. If it were necessary to do that to keep her, I'd be better off without her, and I'd move on to find someone loyal. I'd only step in if she asked me to, for example, if someone is not taking no for an answer.


I am not very into loyalty, frankly. If DH does not WANT to be with me, then we should part ways. The idea of guarding him is counter productive to grown up partnership. He is my PARTNER not my property which I must guard from theft. If he can be "stolen" away, then good riddance. If he wants to leave, he will have my utmost support.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> but rather he's a very eligible fella


No I'm not...:wink2:


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> I am not very into loyalty, frankly. If DH does not WANT to be with me, then we should part ways. The idea of guarding him is counter productive to grown up partnership. He is my PARTNER not my property which I must guard from theft. If he can be "stolen" away, then good riddance. If he wants to leave, he will have my utmost support.


Please do not take this as a criticism,it’s not.I am genuinely curious. 
You are in an open relationship,How is “mate guarding” even possible in this situation.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> Please do not take this as a criticism,it’s not.I am genuinely curious.
> You are in an open relationship,How is “mate guarding” even possible in this situation.


Not to be persnickety. I am not in an open relationship. My husband and I consider ourselves polyamorous. This distinction may be useful to other readers. I come across people from time to time who ask for advice about the wild and wooly ride that is ethical non-monogamy. 

I have no idea if or how it is possible. I'll bet a creative human could find a way. Since it is of no interest to me, it is no surprise that my life does not include it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> Please do not take this as a criticism,it’s not.I am genuinely curious.
> You are in an open relationship,How is “mate guarding” even possible in this situation.


oldshirt talked about this earlier in this thread. You can count on him to promote sticking your pecker in women you aren't married to and having other men stick it to your wife, every opportunity he gets wether the thread called for it or not! Lol!

I don't mind however as he actually related some stories and it made sense.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I am not very into loyalty, frankly. If DH does not WANT to be with me, then we should part ways. The idea of guarding him is counter productive to grown up partnership. He is my PARTNER not my property which I must guard from theft. If he can be "stolen" away, then good riddance. If he wants to leave, he will have my utmost support.


I agree. By loyal, I meant someone who wants to be with me, and acts accordingly - not out of obligation. I could have phrased it better.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> So a few years ago, Mrs. C and I went through the greatest challenge our marriage ever faced.
> 
> I was devastated by a terrible accident and emotionally unwell for a long time, I'm still recovering.
> 
> ...


I think two points worth considering is that you were not in love with the other woman in question. Had you been actively involved in an affair, like a lot of the unfortunate individuals seeking help, I don't think your wife's presence would have had such dramatic effect.

The second, is you've mentioned your wife is a fitness fanatic. Which would indicate that her sex rank is rather high (to use MMSLP terminology). If she was 200 lbs., and not super cute, then your lady friend would have had a distinct advantage over her. As it was, she saw her opponent matched, or even out-matched, her own sex rank. Making her victory far less likely.

All that said, I do think you're right. It's certainly more effective than doing nothing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks @BioFury

I didn't consider the sex rank angle.

Mrs. C is definitely higher on that scale than D.

Mrs. C is cute, petite and has a rockin little body.

D did not get near as many passes as I have observed my wife get.

Our marriage has had a lot of mate guarding with a couple confrontations of would be intruders but no affairs of any kind, just unwanted advances occasionally.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> oldshirt talked about this earlier in this thread. You can count on him to promote sticking your pecker in women you aren't married to and having other men stick it to your wife, every opportunity he gets wether the thread called for it or not! Lol!
> 
> I don't mind however as he actually related some stories and it made sense.


Who is "he"? I am confused since the post to which you are replying was aimed at me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Who is "he"? I am confused since the post to which you are replying was aimed at me.


oldshirt posted earlier in the thread. I was directing Andy to his post.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Thanks @BioFury
> 
> I didn't consider the sex rank angle.
> 
> ...


Haha, that's what I figured.

When that guy wrote you and told you he was a black belt, you weren't very concerned, being strong and able to handle yourself. But, had you known the man was mid-level Russian mob, you'd likely have given her a wide berth upon receiving the same email. Acknowledging his violent superiority.

But with women measuring each other by attractiveness and sexual prowess, your wife was the equivalent of the mob's fingernail puller. She threatened a Hulk smash, and B tapped out, acknowledging she was outmatched. So maybe you _should _call her Mrs. Hulk, or perhaps "comrade" >


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BioFury said:


> I think two points worth considering is that you were not in love with the other woman in question. Had you been actively involved in an affair, like a lot of the unfortunate individuals seeking help, I don't think your wife's presence would have had such dramatic effect.
> 
> The second, is you've mentioned your wife is a fitness fanatic. Which would indicate that her sex rank is rather high (to use MMSLP terminology). If she was 200 lbs., and not super cute, then your lady friend would have had a distinct advantage over her. As it was, she saw her opponent matched, or even out-matched, her own sex rank. Making her victory far less likely.
> 
> All that said, I do think you're right. It's certainly more effective than doing nothing.



Interesting post.

I also think the fact that Conan and his wife present as a pair puts up boundaries like I said in an earlier post.

When this woman was eyeing him at work she could spin her own little world where it was the two of them and Mrs. C. wasn't an issue. 

When she actually saw them as a pair she probably realized there was no place for her to get in. 

That's why presenting as a pair is a form of mate guarding. It was something my ex never did while he was keeping his ex gf around....he never spoke of me and presented himself as available. That opens the door even when it's known you're married or partnered.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Interesting post.
> 
> I also think the fact that Conan and his wife present as a pair puts up boundaries like I said in an earlier post.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more with this.

A coworker that she didn't know tried to give her a hug upon being introduced and she left him hanging. I felt so bad for him that I gave him a hug! Lol!:grin2:

We also only danced with each other. She did let a couple people hug her but she knew them.

Presenting as a strong couple eliminates a lot of unwanted attention.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Couldn't agree more with this.
> 
> *A coworker that she didn't know tried to give her a hug upon being introduced and she left him hanging. I felt so bad for him that I gave him a hug! Lol!:grin2:*
> 
> ...


Too funny! It really is time for people to get over the hugging strangers thing. It was always awkward for me when husband's coworkers (male or female) came in for a hug. Ugh, get over it already.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Too funny! It really is time for people to get over the hugging strangers thing. It was always awkward for me when husband's coworkers (male or female) came in for a hug. Ugh, get over it already.


I do not get stranger hugs. Just. No.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

I am going to chime in on this, and try to help out CH....

I think the OP was a little unclear, but I think I get the point. 

So, for me, I don't mate guard and never would if there was any type of in appropriate talk, much less actual physical cheating, I would never even consider thinking about it. 

In any of my actual relationships over the last several years, that is not even any type of option. 

Now, Mate guarding as I think CH is talking about, and as the incident he related about his wife... I may have done some of that.

I have related several incidents about GF where I would have made my presence "Known" if I had too. However, my GF handled the guys hitting on her so well, I did not even have to say a word. She would just shut them down and kind of embarrass them, so they would just kind of slink off. 

And the way that she handled it, is the way that I prefer for it to go. SHE Stood up for the relationship and herself and made the guys look stupid for even attempting to hit on her. 

It is really better this way, I don't want to fight any more, I prefer to avoid it and the aggravation that stuff causes. 

However, she knows the rules. And if she had not handled things this way we would not be together. The first time I had to get into a bar fight to pull some jerk off of her, where she did not shut him down from the first word, would have been our last date and an uber home for her. 

So, I guess she is a smart girl, if she wants to keep me...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> So a few years ago, Mrs. C and I went through the greatest challenge our marriage ever faced.
> 
> I was devastated by a terrible accident and emotionally unwell for a long time, I'm still recovering.
> 
> ...



I don't understand though -- didn't D always know you were married? And did Mrs. C know D had a thing for you? Did she say or do something "guarding like" other than just be there with you? Because some people have affairs with people who are around them and their spouse together all the time and seem pretty unphased. Some almost seem to get off on it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Mate-guarding is what brought me to TAM. I went through an episode of _Extreme Mate-guarding_ and sought out opinions from the wise people at TAM almost two years after I did it. I deleted my original posting, but I posted a recap about 4 years ago. Here it is:



The Middleman said:


> Let me tell you what happened when I was in your situation. Long Story Short: My wife’s sister made friends on Facebook with an ex-boyfriend of my wife’s from HS days. He asked my SIL to give him my wife’s e-mail address so they can catch-up and my (stupid) SIL connected them. Well, I discovered the e-mails between my wife and her ex and I thought my head was going to explode. While the e-mails were fairly benign, it was clear to me that this guy was fishing. And to top it off this guy lived fairly close to us and suggested that they get together one day to talk about “old times”. Well the first thing I did was I copied the e-mails for myself and then I deleted them from her e-mail box. Then I deleted his email address from her address book and I put a block on his mail address so no e-mails could get in from him or out to him. I sent him an e-mail from my mail account and said that if he tried to contact my wife again, I would be having a conversation with his wife. I blocked Facebook at the router (no access to Facebook for anyone in the house) and then I waited for my wife to say something. When she did, I told her I found the e-mails, which as I said were benign, and I said that I didn't like her being in contact with an ex-boyfriend without my knowing about it. After a very heated discussion I told her if she wants to have a relationship of any kind, no matter how innocent, with her old HS boyfriend, she has to leave the marriage; I had no plans to make it easy for another guy to hit on her. I also told her that when the kids ask me why they can't access Facebook, I will tell them it's because their mother is talking to other men on line. After a week, she agreed not to contact him again.
> 
> Needless to say this changed our relationship a bit. This is a woman that I love with all my heart; the only woman for me since I was 21. I was really having second thoughts on how I handled the situation (and I did make mistakes, the story is much longer than above) so I sought advice from TAM. After getting 20 pages of responses and reading the boards for a month, there was no doubt in my mind that I did the right thing, mistakes and all. Yes, the relationship took some damage because I was a bull in a china shop, but it was worth it, given that I may have prevented myself from being played for a fool. The main thing I learned from TAM was there is no room for EX's in a marriage. A marriage is between two people, not three and I'm willing to bet that if I didn’t react, my wife could have been, at the very least in an emotional affair, if not banging this guy at some point.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WorkingWife said:


> I don't understand though -- didn't D always know you were married? And did Mrs. C know D had a thing for you? Did she say or do something "guarding like" other than just be there with you? Because some people have affairs with people who are around them and their spouse together all the time and seem pretty unphased. Some almost seem to get off on it.


D did know I was married and I discuss pretty much everything with Mrs. Conan so she knew about the mutual attraction between D and I and that nothing inappropriate happened.

Mrs. C just walked in on my arm and probably gave off a possessive vibe. She did let me know she didn't like her and was a little uncomfortable around her because of the attraction so maybe D picked up on it.

Whatever was going on was a shock to D. I didn't realize that she was allowing emotions to develop for me until her reaction to Mrs. Conan.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> I am going to chime in on this, and try to help out CH....
> 
> I think the OP was a little unclear, but I think I get the point.
> 
> ...


I certainly never wanted or needed DH to guard me. Many women, myself included, have been shutting people down since we were very young. I don't get why it needs to involve embarrassment or slinking. It can be done gracefully. No blood, no foul.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> I certainly never wanted or needed DH to guard me. Many women, myself included, have been shutting people down since we were very young. I don't get why it needs to involve embarrassment or slinking. It can be done gracefully. No blood, no foul.


I agree at a basic level. However, some of these guys were just GOOF's. So, if she was not 1) in love with me and 2) strong enough to shut them down hard... Then it could have gotten bad for them and bad for me. 

I would have probably won any fights, which when it gets to that level, no one actually wins. And then more than likely I would have gone to jail, the winner almost always goes to jail for a minute at least. That is what happened to me even though I was never charged, you still get arrested. 

So for me, she had to shut them down hard, or it would have been a bigger conflict overall. 

So I am grateful that she embarrassed them for the most part. It saves trouble overall, esp some guys that are kind of stupid, they need to be embarrassed. 

I mean, how stupid do you have to be to SEE that she came in with someone my size, that is as wonderful as I am, why even go there no matter how pretty she is. 

No, it is better in these cases that the dude is embarrassed a little.


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