# Girlfriend wants marriage but we have bigger problems



## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ok, this is long but I really need some help. Thanks ahead of time for any advice. 

We've hit a rocky patch. We're both in our mid-twenties and she's one of the sweetest girls I've met. Marriage talk started early as we're compatible in many ways and it's now been a year together. During the middle-part tho I had a weird depression hit me that i've never had before. I was prescribed antidepressants and went to therapy. Honestly, one of the worst periods ever. Now, I'm off medicine and feel like I can think again. It's been hard getting back on track after that and my girlfriend (although frustrated bc she couldn't understand at times) has stuck by me through it all. I couldn't think of marriage after this and had to get things back on track so when I stopped talking about it, she freaked out. I explained I had to get my crap together before I could get back on that subject. 

Well, through all of this it got me thinking about things that aren't working in our relationship. The big one is the sex- she says she's not a sexual person. Anytime I try to initiate sex, most of the time she's awkward and blocks me off. This has really damaged my self-esteem over time, but I accept responsibilty for letting myself feel this way. I try talking to her, but it makes her feel pressured and all she says is she's not a sexual person and she's always been that way. 

I could accept that if it wasn't for knowing a little of her past. 7 months before I met her, she got out of a 2 year relationship with your typical bad boy abuser guy that she lost her virginity too and he treated her horribly and ran her self-esteem into the ground. 

Ever since we began getting sexual, she was awkward. I never felt like she could loosen up and that she would ever have an orgasm. She made mention early on of some of the stuff her ex told her like she was loose and rough and beat up down there, that she couldn't have been a virgin, that she was awful at sex and kissing. I took her actions during sex that she was just inexperienced and I could help her learn herself. Well, she hasn't really given me that chance as I feel a wall up and now I rarely try to initiate and have started to shutdown. 

I just can't help but feel maybe she isn't attracted to me that way and that is why she's "not sexual". I'm not a bad looking guy other- I'm clean-cut, have a good job, and treat her well. She has said that she wished she would have saved herself for me so she'd be pure but I told her that doesn't matter to me. 

The comments that have got me insecure are her saying that things with her ex were wrong and lustful. With me, she said it's true love. When I asked if she lusted after me, she said no bc she loves me. I've asked her during times I've been shut down if she's not attracted to me. I've had talks where I've tried to communicate how I feel and figure out what's going on with her but it's always she's just not sexual. Yet, she still wants marriage right now. She's not too pushy but she is a little. I'm now feeling in my mind that I'm the good guy she's found to settle with bc I have the "appropriate" traits. However, feeling that she doesn't desire me in that way and maybe was more like that for someone else really bothers me. 

Can you all help me on what may be going on and how to approach it? I really want to emphasize that I care for this girl and want things to work out. Thanks for any help.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Before you even think about walking down the aisle with her, you better get both of you to IC or MC. 

There's no way a marriage can work with these problems and it seems to me that with her, once she's married, then she doesn't have to put forth the effort to improve herself. 

In other words, she brings her baggage and hang ups into the marriage and expects you to deal with them. 

My advice is you tell her that until she gets her problems worked out, that you will not marry her.

If she thinks it will be too hard to get IC then keeping a marriage afloat will be impossible. Don't get over your head.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

There is something called "Madonna wh0re" syndrome that's common for the way men view sex. Less common is when women have a similar response and see love as devoid of sex while lust allows it. (The link is an article I wrote about M/W syndrome.)

Her prior relationship with an abuser, combined with her thoughts about love vs. lust, lead me to wonder if she was sexually abused at some point. It's also possible that the last guy's behavior produced this effect, though. 

Because you aren't yet married and have been together just one year yet have had two MAJOR issues come up, I'd encourage you to consider if she's really "the one" for you. 

But in any case, I would encourage you to explore her beliefs about love vs. lust in more detail - with or without a counselor. If she came to have that belief while with the other guy, you may be able to reverse it by helping her see that he was being hurtful, not "honest," with those remarks. You can praise her, thank her, and show appreciation for ANY sexual behavior from her so she can rebuild her confidence. 

On the other hand, if she really has "always" been that way, then consider it a major red flag that sexual compatibility will be missing from your relationship for many years to come.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If you're not a great match sexually (it sounds like she's low drive - LD - and you're higher - HD, as well as issues with range of activities) then it will only get worse once married. If a fulfilling sex life is important to you, don't marry her.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm with the others. Sexual incompatibility is a major issue in marriages or LTR's. She will always feel pressured, you'll always feel deprived. The resentments will fester in both of you and spill over into other areas. 

If you do marry her, bookmark this site. You'll need it. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

This is a significant issue and I would definitely postpone any ideas of marriage until the two of you can figure out if this is a problem that can be overcome.

Your girlfriend sounds like my wife. I have been married for 21 years and I can safely say that I have entirely missed out on what should have been the best years sexually of my life. Will never get them back. There are people here on TAM that have had sex more often with their spouse just this year than I have during my entire marriage.

My wife is not sexual. She readily admits it is not important to her. Looking back I knew this from the very first time I had sex with her but I just chalked it up to inexperience. It has improved over time but that isn't the problem ... the problem is still that it isn't important to her and we have now spent the last 6 or 7 years of our marriage nearly celibate. She doesn't like talking about it. She doesn't like talking about much of anything that is personal. She has a wall around her and struggles to be vulnerable. Any issue that may require her to invest emotionally in, she conveniently sweeps under the rug. I feel unwanted, unloved, unattractive ... it has been a tremendous blow to my self-esteem. It has taken myself a long time to find peace with myself and build myself back up. I am still not completely there yet.

I'm glad you're here trying to get answers. Do not under any circumstances sweep this under the rug or you risk wasting your life away just like I have.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> There is something called "Madonna wh0re" syndrome that's common for the way men view sex. Less common is when women have a similar response and see love as devoid of sex while lust allows it. (The link is an article I wrote about M/W syndrome.)
> 
> Her prior relationship with an abuser, combined with her thoughts about love vs. lust, lead me to wonder if she was sexually abused at some point. It's also possible that the last guy's behavior produced this effect, though.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I mean...

I think her definition of love vs lust is the same as how I think of it. 

I think of it as sexual desire and you crave being close with that person. You like them physically. 

I think it's healthy to have a good balance of love vs lust. 

I've been in an all lust relationship and it's not good. 

The way she described that last relationship was "it was lustful, I gave myself to a guy that only wanted me for sex and didn't care about me"

Honestly, if that's "just the way she is", it'd make this easier to deal with. 

Anytime we talk about this sort of stuff, she either thinks I'm digging up the past or gets uncomfortable and it turns into an argument even though I try to keep it civilized.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> Her prior relationship with an abuser, combined with her thoughts about love vs. lust, *lead me to wonder if she was sexually abused at some point.* It's also possible that the last guy's behavior produced this effect, though.


Ok, it wasn't just me, then.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

I tried quoting your all's posts, but it wouldn't let me. Must be my newness to the forum!

Thanks for all the replies so far. I figured this was the best place to talk about this and the answers already have offered some great relief. 

Kathy- That's what I was wondering, our definitions of love vs lust may be different. I think of it as desire to be close with your partner and physical attraction. I've asked before if she's attracted to me a couple times and she swears she's attracted to me in every way. Maybe I need to ask her what she thinks love is and what lust is? She said that her ex was a lustful relationship bc she gave that to someone who didn't care about her and it was just an act with no love involved. She also said that not saving herself is her one regret in life. 


Pbear- As you can tell, the resentment in myself has already grown to some extent and I hate it. I feel shallow for having a great-hearted girl and making this an issue. I can already sense it spilling over into other aspects- she's told me I don't look at her when she's naked anymore, I don't give her enough attention, etc. I tried communicating how I thought the sex was the underlying issue for me and she said I sounded like I was talking to her like a therapist. 


JustSomeGuy- I'm so sorry for your situation, my friend. It sounds exactly like mine and that's what I'm afraid of happening to myself. "She has a wall around her and struggles to be vulnerable"- this sounds so familiar. My girlfriend can't be turned on hardly ever. She doesn't like to be kissed around her neck, ears, shoulders, and if I start to do kiss her passionately or attempt to turn her on she feels pressured. 

It's a pretty rough blow to your ego when you touch the one you love in the most gentle and caring way you can to be told they feel pressured. 


When I tell you all these things, I feel like I'm saying too much "I" and that's also the way she makes me feel during our conversations. So please tell me if I'm neglecting her needs at all here. A lot of the time, she tells me I sound like her Dad or I'm lecturing her. For example, when she got upset the other night, she hung up the phone on me. That's the second time she's done this. When i talked to her again, I firmly told her that was rude, disrespectful, and immature and I wouldn't tolerate it again. She told me I sounded like her Dad. I feel like maybe all of this comes from immaturity and insecurity. The thing is, if that is what it is, I'm totally for standing with her and working through these things.


*I see it did post my quoted post above but I'll leave this one. Sorry about that!


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

6301 said:


> Before you even think about walking down the aisle with her, you better get both of you to IC or MC.
> 
> There's no way a marriage can work with these problems and it seems to me that with her, once she's married, then she doesn't have to put forth the effort to improve herself.
> 
> ...


I think the way she sees it, at least from what I've heard, is that she doesn't have a problem. For some reason, this to me seems like some sort of defense mechanism. However, at this point I could just be reading too much into things.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Of course she doesn't have a problem. Or rather, she wouldn't have a problem if you'd just stop nagging her for sex all the time. 

The issue is that she's getting her needs met (so she doesn't have a problem), but you aren't (so you think there's an issue). Until you get her to see that there IS an issue, you're SOL. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

govr5 said:


> 6301 said:
> 
> 
> > Before you even think about walking down the aisle with her, you better get both of you to IC or MC.
> ...


My wife would tell me the same thing. She sees our lack of intimacy as my problem. The problem is that this wall she has impacts other areas of our life ... particularly the most important ... our ability to communicate. She will not initiate conversations that might have the potential for disagreement and when I do she immediately falls into a defensive position no matter how carefully I approach it. This has gotten worse over time.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> My wife would tell me the same thing. She sees our lack of intimacy as my problem. The problem is that this wall she has impacts other areas of our life ... particularly the most important ... our ability to communicate. She will not initiate conversations that might have the potential for disagreement and when I do she immediately falls into a defensive position no matter how carefully I approach it. This has gotten worse over time.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Like looking in a mirror.

What do you think your wife's situation is? Do you believe it is in fact "not sexual" and she's always been that way? 

I tend to place all blame on myself and think my gf doesn't find sex with me enjoyable. I try to be positive but it always leads back to thinking that which destroys me and affects our relationship in other ways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> My wife would tell me the same thing. She sees our lack of intimacy as my problem. The problem is that this wall she has impacts other areas of our life ... particularly the most important ... our ability to communicate. She will not initiate conversations that might have the potential for disagreement and when I do she immediately falls into a defensive position no matter how carefully I approach it. This has gotten worse over time.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Like looking in a mirror.

Do you truly believe she is not sexual? Or could there be another reason that this wall is up? 

The thing that gets me is that if my gf doesn't find me attractive in that way. When she used the word lustful that gives me the impression that she has had more drive in the past but not giving that to me. I would NOT be able to handle that. When I can actually get down to this conversation with her, I will ask her about lust vs love and hopefully get to the bottom of it. I also want to ask how often in previous relationship her drive was active but that would be somewhat inappropriate right? I can't think of any other way though.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Whatever you do, DO NOT marry her! I understand that this girl treats you well BUT MOST partners treat their SO's well during the honeymoon phase. 

This is the problem. Early in normal relationships, especially the first year, LUST is one of the biggest factors present. You both should be all over each other, inexperienced or not. She views you as the the good guy that will provide, support, defend, and be a good father. That's merely it. She views guys with her ex's traits as bad, lustful, take control.. the throw her around and tell her to shut up kind. 

Her vagina reacts to lust.. not love.. and it's pretty clear where you fall. There are three options: 1.) Break up with her (this is the best of the three) 2.) Stay with her and try to fix it before marriage 3.) Marry her and be miserable.

In the meantime, if you do have sex with her.. use protection. Do not get this girl pregnant. 

Mid 20s? Do yourself a favor and end this relationship as nicely as possible. Her drive will only get worse as time passes. If it gets better, it will take years of pressuring/arguing/resentment/etc. if you both even make it through all that. I wouldn't even bother pulling a 'fix your sex drive or I'm out.' Your best bet is to chalk this one up as a learning experience and find a woman who desires your touch.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

wise said:


> Mid 20s? Do yourself a favor and end this relationship as nicely as possible. Her drive will only get worse as time passes.


Or even WORSE, years from now the drive will FINALLY kick in. And she won't be lusting after Mr. Sucker-Dupe-Dumb-Take-Care-Of-Everything-Nice-Guy. And if you dare to have a problem with any of it it? Then live in a crappy apartment with teenagers, pay several hundred dollars in child support, and watch how your children's lives (and their children's) lives will be screwed up with 4 houses they are obligated to visit every fricking Christmas. The Ghost of Marriage Future.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

That is my worst fear right now. Here's the thing, I'm not the typical nice guy. I consider myself a man and I stand by my decisions and don't let people walk all over me. 

I need to find out if this is really the case. Do you all have any suggestions on how to extract this info from her? 

Also, it's a pretty big blow to the self esteem to know this may be the case. Not exactly sure how to handle this but the question of will I find a good girl that into me comes to mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Does everyone agree that she just isn't into me in that way and that's what the problem is? 

Or is it still possible she has another issue blocking her or that she's truly non-sexual? 


I have NO other indicators about what sex was like in her previous relationship other than that she felt it was "wrong and lustful". 

I want to get to the bottom of this asap.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised at all if she's got some sexual issues, either from her past BF or earlier. But if she won't talk about it or deal with it with you, you have your answer on where your relationship is headed. Poor communication is another big relationship killer.

You're dating. This isn't necessarily the time to try to change the person into your perfect partner. This is the time to see if you're compatible. You're not. 

How long have you been dating, btw?

C


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sorry, re-read your original post. 1 year in, and she's pushing for marriage yet not wanting a sexual relationship... Buy her a puppy to "love" (and not worry about lusting after) and say goodbye.

C


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

govr5 said:


> Does everyone agree that she just isn't into me in that way and that's what the problem is?
> 
> Or is it still possible she has another issue blocking her or that she's truly non-sexual?
> 
> ...


I agree with this. The rest is secondary. I'm agree with the other posters -- it won't be a satisfying match for you.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

She has told me numerous times that I'm everything she's ever wanted and just knows. 

It's weird bc sometimes she'll want sex a few times in a wkend and then go dry for a while. The thing that really gets me is that when I go to try to touch her to initiate, it's just awkward and doesn't feel wanted. 

I feel like as her bf I should be in some control that I know she likes my touch and I can initiate physical intimacy and she enjoys it. I'm feeling VERY insecure about all of this. If I try to talk to her about it she says I'm digging and gets angry- end of conversation. 

Guess I'll just have to explain that this is an important subject that I need to know before we can continue the relationship? 

Also, we all know there are two sides to every story so I wish I could know how she's viewing everything. She knows sex is an issue for me or she should at least and maybe she is trying and I'm just too frustrated to see it.

I feel bad bc I'm developing this jealousy of her ex picturing her being more into him and I never do this as I know it's not good. 

She's told me she's inexperienced and that she's never let someone touch her the way I have. One time driving home from dinner she actually got sexual in the car and said she's never done that. 

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK AND MY HEAD IS SPINNING. 

On top of this her period is a few days late. Sorry for my frustration on here, I don't know what to do.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm going to talk, try to at least, about everything this evening- about her definition of lust and love, etc. I really have a feeling she'll shut down and not talk in which case I'll probably tell her I can't see the relationship going on if she can't talk. 

Do you all think this is a bad idea especially around Christmas time? I hate to do this but feel I have to address it for good now.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

A serious talk like that could go either way. If it went badly, I'd consider if it was going to make your Christmas plans really difficult/awkward, and if so, possibly postpone it until after.

Good luck though. I think it's a great that you are biting the bullet and planning to hash it all out with her. From her perspective it's obvious she doesn't think sex and intimacy is a particularly important part of a relationship, but she's very wrong about that, and if she holds onto that erroneous belief, she'll turn any relationship she has into an unhappy one eventually.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

govr5 said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > My wife would tell me the same thing. She sees our lack of intimacy as my problem. The problem is that this wall she has impacts other areas of our life ... particularly the most important ... our ability to communicate. She will not initiate conversations that might have the potential for disagreement and when I do she immediately falls into a defensive position no matter how carefully I approach it. This has gotten worse over time.
> ...


As far as I can tell she has always been that way. Of course there was a time when she was younger when she was more interested in exploring her sexuality because it was the unknown but I guess she decided it wasn't that big of a deal.

If we divorced I am curious if maybe she could find that spark with someone else. I suspect though that the real issue is within herself based on how this wall also affects her other relationships with family and friends. She had a rough childhood and has a lot of counseling to work through that. Seeing how she interacts with her family tells me it isn't just me.

The question is ... does it matter if it is just with you? It only matters if the answer can be used to solve the problem. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. It just means that SHE interacts with you in this way. I hate to advise to move on but at the very least you should know what you might be getting yourself into. You are young ... there are women out there who will treat you well and will be a better match for you in the bedroom. Guarantee it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

govr5 said:


> Well, through all of this it got me thinking about things that aren't working in our relationship. The big one is the sex- she says she's not a sexual person. Anytime I try to initiate sex, most of the time she's awkward and blocks me off. This has really damaged my self-esteem over time, but I accept responsibilty for letting myself feel this way. I try talking to her, but it makes her feel pressured and all she says is she's not a sexual person and she's always been that way.


Do not get married to her if you want a sexual relationship (satisfying sexual relationship). She has told you point blank she is not into it/isn't sexual. In fact, you don't have to stay in a relationship with her at all.

Talk to her about how it makes you feel rejected.

Marriage isn't going to magically make her want to have sex with you.

Hav eyou ever had a fulfilling sex life with her? How long you been together?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

govr5 said:


> She has told me numerous times that I'm everything she's ever wanted and just knows.
> 
> It's weird bc sometimes she'll want sex a few times in a wkend and then go dry for a while. The thing that really gets me is that when I go to try to touch her to initiate, it's just awkward and doesn't feel wanted.


Has she ever been sexually abused/assaulted?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

breeze said:


> A serious talk like that could go either way. If it went badly, I'd consider if it was going to make your Christmas plans really difficult/awkward, and if so, possibly postpone it until after.
> 
> Good luck though. I think it's a great that you are biting the bullet and planning to hash it all out with her. From her perspective it's obvious she doesn't think sex and intimacy is a particularly important part of a relationship, but she's very wrong about that, and if she holds onto that erroneous belief, she'll turn any relationship she has into an unhappy one eventually.


I agree with holding off on any further serious discussion until after the holidays.

Her potential future relationships aren't really your concern here. She is young and maybe at some point she'll get it figured out ... or maybe she'll find someone who also doesn't think it's important. The question is if that is right for you and it sounds like it isn't. After one year you are finding out she may not be the one you want to spend the rest of your life with. Don't let her pressure you into something you have reservations about.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

It doesn't matter why. The fact is, she either isn't into sex, or she isn't into sex with you. Added to pressuring for marriage one year in, and it's a big run away quickly.

You want to end up like some of the men here who waste their most sexual years trying trying trying, go ahead and marry her. I really hope you just break up and move on.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> govr5 said:
> 
> 
> > She has told me numerous times that I'm everything she's ever wanted and just knows.
> ...


That crossed my mind too. My wife was raped as a teenager. She worked as a counselor for awhile at a rape crisis center as a way of dealing with it. I think that certainly has had an impact although it doesn't tell the entire story.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Lyris said:


> It doesn't matter why. The fact is, she either isn't into sex, or she isn't into sex with you. Added to pressuring for marriage one year in, and it's a big run away quickly.
> 
> You want to end up like some of the men here who waste their most sexual years trying trying trying, go ahead and marry her. I really hope you just break up and move on.


Yep ... I'm one of those guys ... don't be me. I will never get those prime years back and at 46, my window is closing rapidly.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks again everyone for the replies.

I have also thought about the sexual abuse thing and I don't know. I tried asking if something from her past has caused her trauma and she said no and cut it off quickly. 

I know she mentioned her ex got physical a couple times with her, not sure how. 

I really want to talk about the whole thing tonight as I don't want it to linger throughout the holidays and just put on a face. If I wait til after all the gift giving that could be weird. However, I really hate to sabotage things. I know when I try to talk she'll shutdown. 

I feel like it's such a bad place to be in and I can't win either way.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Alright just had the talk. It went better than I expected. 

I was honestly ready for things to go haywire and break up. I brought up the lust and passion thing and she told me she feels it in many ways. She said that me asking about her past makes her upset bc she feels used up and dirty. She said that relationship was one of the worst experiences of her life and she was used. She really emphasized that she just wasnt sexual and that's how she's been always, anytime. She said she's just uncomfortable with her body and even talking about it. I asked her if she'd be open to trying to learn more about her body and finding things that feel good for her and she seemed a little apprehensive but said that she would and also agreed it could help the relationship. Also, that she'd be open to reading books about sexuality. She said she understands why I was getting insecure and that is exactly why she wishes she would've saved herself bc feeling used up and not pure. 

It was definitely a turn of events that I didn't expect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Hey man, more power to you if you want to stick this out.

It's tough to end relationships but sometimes, it must be done. It doesn't matter if she was sexually abused/inexperienced/bad ex.. you both are not married. She has baggage and it's up to you if you want to be that guy who deals with it. 

She needs to stop obsessing over 'not being pure.' What is done.. is done. Her past is her past. She has to be 100% about this so you have to keep her on her toes. She now knows what you need. Stop begging, stop pleading.. words are a start but don't mean anything. She needs to act on this and time will tell.

It's simple though. IMO, I would have ended it nicely.. took a couple months off from the scene to regain my self esteem.. and then start going out again. There is more to life then having to deal with these problems. There are tons of women that will jump on you the minute you come home from work. Tons. There are tons of women who will cook dinner in nothing but your favorite football team jersey. Before marriage.. you chose your battles and who you want to fight them with. If you lose a battle.. you find another.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

govr5:

I've got to say, it sounds to me like you have White Knight syndrome! You're much more invested in "fixing" her problems than SHE is! And believe me, NOBODY is going to fix her problems except her. Not you. Not a therapist. Just her. And if she doesn't have a helluva good handle on them by the end of March, you should walk away, permanently.

You've been given all the reasons 'why' already in this thread. You seem to be determined to stick it out and fix her because you're a 'nice guy'. Yeah, that is not always a good thing.

1) She is never going to be able to change the fact that she was not a virgin for you. She needs to get over it because the fact will not change.

2) She needs to quit equating having sex with being dirty. Even abusive sex doesn't mean she was/is dirty, she was a victim of abuse. That is a fact. She needs to accept it because the fact will not change.

3) She has no need for sex and rarely any interest. Things are NOT going to get better with small children around sucking up her time and her energy. Little children are DRAINING, loving, but DRAINING. She's not going to have anything left to give you!

4) Dating is the time (as someone pointed out) to SEE if you're compatible to marry someone. Ditto for engagements...they're your last chance to BE SURE. This woman is NOT the woman for you! 

Sure, she's sweet. There are LOTS of sweet women! 

Sure she thinks you're the best thing that's ever happened to her. There are LOTS of women who would think you're the best thing to ever happen to them!

There are lots of happy, HEALTHY, normal, sexually interested, mature, emotionally stable, women who are looking for a LTR and marriage! WHY would you want to get involved with a woman who needs so much "fixing"? WHY is she more interested in being in a relationship/marriage instead of "fixing" herself? A mature person (granted, you both are quite young) would be interested in fixing their own personal problems BEFORE embarking on a new relationship because they know that *THAT* is the only way they will have a better relationship. They need to be a better/healther/more whole person than they were LAST TIME AROUND.

This woman should fix herself BEFORE she worries about being in a relationship or getting married.

You should look at 'why' you feel the need to "fix" people; that is something you should address so you will be attracted to healthy relationships in the future.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks for the advice, wise. 

I pretty much agree with everything you said. 

I honestly don't think it has to do with an attraction thing in regards to sex. It seems the fact is that she is really just "not sexual" for whatever reason. I think the fact that her ex treated her the way he did only took her further from discovering herself and really scared her. I've obviously thought way more into this already than needed, but it's bc I care about her. Thinking about the insults the guy said to her tells me that he probably was seeing her "not sexual" traits were getting to him and he took it out on her bc she wasn't like others. Yesterday, when we talked she told me she got upset about when I bring up the past bc it's behind her and it's a lot of painful feelings about being trapped. She told me she doesn't need to tell me anything other than that her relationship with me doesn't even compare in any way to her previous and I'm stupid to even try to do that. She looked me straight in the eye and told me that she just isn't sexual and can't force herself to have sex. I asked her if she felt passion with me and she said yes in every way. 

I just want to lay out what she said to me for you all to read. I honestly believe what she said. Hope I'm not being naive, but I don't think she could look at me the way she did when we talked. 

As Wise said, I should probably determine a window of time I want to give this to improve and see if I feel it's worthwhile. I think her religious upbringing is why she is the way she is and why she doesn't understand it's okay to learn your body. She's never even masterbated before, only attempted to a couple times but felt "dirty". When I told her I'd like to learn what feels good for her together, she told me she didn't want to feel pressured or uncomfortable. I told her she couldn't do anything in front of me to feel uncomfortable and it could be a good thing to bring us both closer together. My one fear in all of this is that I could make it worse for her. 

I would just go ahead and end it nicely, but she's such a good girl. Our families get along great, I feel she really does treasure me, and I know she'd be a great mother along with many other things. I just hate the idea of taking something forgranted and maybe having a little "grass is greener syndrome" and breaking up something that I could really regret. 


Sorry for the long post and I just want to tell you all thanks again for the continued help.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser, 

As the post I just made, it does seem I have that white knight syndrome. 

I don't know why I'm doing that. I guess the relationship I had before meeting her was rough for me as well so I'm trying to be understanding. 

I also feel bad thinking about a lot of other things like she doesn't really have any people close to her. She paying her way through school right now and her family situation sucks as she doesn't even have a place to stay for Christmas tonight so she's staying with my family. Last night when we were driving around she kept asking me if I could put up with her being crazy all the time. 

I guess I just want for us to work so bad. And also if you're in love, doesn't that mean you're supposed to do what you can for someone? Maybe it's also a fear of me not finding better which would be an insecurity thing on my part, not sure bc so much has been on my mind lately. On top of everything, i have people constantly asking when we're getting married and people telling me I have the perfect girl and I better not let her go- a lot of pressure. 

Giving it to the end of March sounds like a good idea.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

When someone tells you who (and what) they are, believe them. She's telling you she's not sexual and doesn't want to change. What's going to change in the next few months, then? It's not like she's doing therapy to try to resolve anything. 

Just don't get her pregnant...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

I think a 'to march' window is great; however, do not tell her she has to March. That idea needs to stay subjective to you. If March rolls around and you are still not satisfied.. then you do what you want to do.

When it comes to SO's with a low sexual drive and seeing masturbation as dirty.. the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side. 

There are plenty of spouse's who go through this cycle for years on end hoping that 'one day, there love will be turned on.' It is such a drag and they either 1.) accept it and throw sex out the door 2.) watch porn 24/7 3.) cheat 4.) get divorced and deal with kids/money/etc issues. 
However, if the spouse does come around, it takes years of arguments/whining/begging/resentment/time. And sometimes, she comes around.. but behind your back.. for the kind of guy like the ex.

We just want you to understand that the ball is in your court. You can walk away from this relationship with no problems and not to much time invested. Good luck my man. Hopefully she comes around for you but if she doesn't.. don't be that guy.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

It feels good to be getting some advice that I feel is helpful and from people who probably have a little more experience than I do. 

One thing that I haven't done is beg for sex. I will never beg bc that turns me off immediately. Now, resentment is another story bc I had been beating myself up convinicing myself she was sexual and just attracted to her ex more than me. 

I see it going the way you said it, wise- either this drags on and doesn't get any better or it could turn out better. 

Let me ask this: Do you think if she does show effort in learning things and she ends up being more sexual that it could bring us closer together? Or am I just trying to imagine this to make things seem better now? 

The thing you mention about her possibly coming around, but then seeking elsewhere for the same type of a**hole worries me. Have you heard of this happening? Do you still think the case could be that she is really more attracted to this type of person even after her telling me the things she did? 


Sorry for more questions, man. Just trying to be as smart about this as I can.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Pbear, 

I guess I'm hoping that we can get some books and she'll be more comfortable with learning about her body. She never even likes for me to touch her sensitive (to keep it PG) spot down there or for me to go down on her bc she feels sensitive or dirty. 

I think if things would improve it could be really great for the relationship.

Also, definitely gonna be careful about the pregnancy stuff. She took a test yesterday again and it was negative.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

From reading what you said, I was under the impression that she said "this is who I am and I'm not going to change". Has she expressed an interest in working on this by reading some books? Or is this just YOUR hope/plan?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

govr5,

I would read SlowlyGettingWisers post over and over and let it sink in. Come back after you've had time to think about it and read all these comments again.

Getting married isn't going to fix the situation. Having children absolutely isn't going to fix the problem. I love my daughters more than anything but it has done nothing but exasperate the problems I have in my marriage. Instead of bringing us closer, it has enabled her to place her children far above us in her list of priorities. 

This is your decision about the rest of your life. Don't let anybody pressure you into making the wrong decision for you. 
There is also nothing wrong with giving it some time but you need to know what your plan of action is and what the finish line looks like to you ... what needs to happen for you to be able to say, yes I can marry her without reservation.

For me, it isn't about sex. I love sex but it's really about intimacy and maintaining an emotional connection with my wife. It is difficult to maintain that emotional connection without having sex on a regular basis. You talk about being in love and I remember those butterfly feelings well. You look at her and you just want to be with her. Those feelings you have now do go away over time ... the honeymoon period ... and if you aren't having sex then how are you going to maintain that emotional connection? You won't and there will be a disconnect that will be difficult to recover from. Have children and you will find yourself stuck in a sexless marriage that you stay in for the sake of the kids with only memories of being in love. 

Don't fool yourself into believing that you are different and that you love her so much it won't happen ... because you are no different than any of the other people who come here trying to figure out what went wrong.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Pbear, 

She said she'd be open to reading some books and learning. Also, I always joked about stopping by an erotica shop when we travel and she mentioned that she'd be open to going in one and looking around. 


JustSomeGuyWho,

I've already read that post several times over, and will continue to as it's the situation exactly. Thanks for more of your insight. 

I feel the EXACT way about sex. It's more of establishing that intimacy and when all things may go haywire being able to have that bond to fall back on. 

I know I've already asked some about your situation, but how have you dealt with it for so long? Have you had urges to cheat, watch more porn, etc? 

Can you remember back in the day when you were in my shoes, does a lot of this sound familiar? 

I don't mean to repeat myself on anything, but it helps hearing from someone that was in a very similar situation as myself.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I was married to a gal for nearly 20 years. She was a virgin when we got married, not that that mattered to me. Our sex life dropped to nearly nothing in a few years. There was no changing it. No amount of talking, teasing, foreplay, candles and music, drinking, flirting, trying to make her jealous -- hell I tried everything in the book. No joy. 

If the gal isn't into sex, thinks it's dirty, thinks she's dirty, unless you can convince her being a dirty girl is fun for you, nothing is going to change for you years down the road. Her drive will get lower, your frustration will get higher. And if it's her mind stopping her and not her body, that's even more of an issue. These things can spiral into real phobias and psychoses.

If sex is important to you, and it should be somewhat high on the list IMHO, this is a problem that won't go away. You'll end up looking at porn or other women, and that's not going to make your life any better. 

Find a woman who is sexually healthy, on a level where you are, along with the personality traits and physicall attributes that attract you. You're going to be satisfied long term, a lot better than what I see coming for you with this woman. It's sad for her, because you sound like you're sincere and loving. But relationships are not one-way streets.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Sounds like my situation doubletrouble. Thanks for the advice. Was there a time where your wife showed more interest and then it just faded back? One thing I'm worried about is what if I do get this thing going better but she only does it at the present time until we're married and then it dissolves into nothing. She's had moments in our relationship where she's gotten horny and it happens especially when she's been drinking a little so I know she has it in her. Or maybe she's just doing that bc she feels she has to. 

So I'm assuming you're now divorced? How have you been doing since?


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

She was 25 when we got together. By 30 she was done. We stayed married 19 years, although I moved out for two years early on in the marriage. 

Since the divorce, I've had my ups and downs. But I'm with a woman who is sexually well matched to me and is beautiful inside and out.


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## govr5 (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks for sharing doubletrouble. It's scary man thinking of being in that position and it's also scarey to think of possibly giving up something that you will regret in the end. I have this image in my head of 10 years down the road of her being married with a family and me still being single bc I can't be satisfied with what I got.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Do you know if she was ever sexually abused? Sexual abuse victims can be overly sexual or want to have little (or no) sexual contact.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

govr5 said:


> Thanks for sharing doubletrouble. It's scary man thinking of being in that position and it's also scarey to think of possibly giving up something that you will regret in the end. I have this image in my head of 10 years down the road of her being married with a family and me still being single bc I can't be satisfied with what I got.


It's sscarier thinking of being stuck in a marriage that is completely unsatisfying on several levels. All you have is your toys and property. These things are distractions, but they bring no happiness of the soul.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

govr5 said:


> 7 months before I met her, she got out of a 2 year relationship with your typical *bad boy abuser guy that she lost her virginity too and he treated her horribly and ran her self-esteem into the ground. *
> 
> Ever since we began getting sexual, she was awkward. I never felt like she could loosen up and that she would ever have an orgasm. She made mention early on of some of the stuff *her ex told her like she was loose and rough and beat up down there, that she couldn't have been a virgin, that she was awful at sex and kissing.*


Her ex insulted her vagina, her sexual skills, and her kisses. I can imagine that she probably feels horrible and self-conscious and nervous and awkward about anything having to do with her vagina, sex and kissing now. 

THAT was her introduction to sex, and THAT was her sex life for two years. Don't discount the long-term and devastating impact of THAT on a virgin. I'd probably still be crying in a corner if THAT was what had happened when I had sex the first time.

In order to make things better, she needs to believe that her vagina is beautiful and soft and luscious and the most wonderful vagina you could imagine making love with. She needs to believe that you love kissing her and touching her and licking her and stroking her and that she (can be) the most wonderful sexy lover you've ever had. Right now, she's internalized what her ex taught her for two years. Undoing that will be a long-term project and only for someone with a lot of patience and persistence.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

govr5 said:


> Thanks for sharing doubletrouble. It's scary man thinking of being in that position and it's also scarey to think of possibly giving up something that you will regret in the end. I have this image in my head of 10 years down the road of her being married with a family and me still being single bc I can't be satisfied with what I got.


I'm a woman..if I were you, I would not marry this woman. In fact I would end the relationship now. If you marry her, you're going to be one of the many men on this board who are in sexless marriages devoid of emotional intimacy and connection. What you put up with is what you end up with. 

So what if she ends up being married with a family ten years from now? I'm positive it will be a nearly sexless marriage with very vanilla, mediocre sex. Is that what you really want? You need to be with someone who knows what they have when they have you. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is keeping people in their lives longer than they should be there. You should be strong enough to let go and patient enough to find an emotionally healthy woman who is a good partner to you. I know you think you might not find that person, but you will.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

2 things.
1. Men bond through putting their penis inside the vagina of their woman. This is a 'Just is'. You are setting yourself up for a bitter divorce after x years of suffering trying to change it.
2. Sex is 20% of a great relationship with great sex. And 100% of a rocky relationship with problems like low sex.

For 80% of females, a womans sex drive goes DOWN once married. NOT UP!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> She was 25 when we got together. By 30 she was done. We stayed married 19 years, although I moved out for two years early on in the marriage.
> 
> Since the divorce, I've had my ups and downs. But I'm with a woman who is sexually well matched to me and is beautiful inside and out.


The well matched one since the divorce. Is she the one that cheated? Sorry to ask dude but I can never forget the man who still to this date has written the single most powerful post I have seen here.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> The well matched one since the divorce. Is she the one that cheated? Sorry to ask dude but I can never forget the man who still to this date has written the single most powerful post I have seen here.


Same woman. And I still deal with triggers and pain, but she's trying very hard and being very real, transparent, loving. Despite the affair, I still believe she and I are supposed to be together, so here we are. She knows it too, and has said how she regrets she almost lost the best love she's ever had. The post you mentioned still applies; an affair and R are incredibly heavy burdens on a relationship. Yet I lack for nothing in our sex life. She's going to be sexy to me till the day I die.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> Same woman. And I still deal with triggers and pain, but she's trying very hard and being very real, transparent, loving. Despite the affair, I still believe she and I are supposed to be together, so here we are. She knows it too, and has said how she regrets she almost lost the best love she's ever had. The post you mentioned still applies; an affair and R are incredibly heavy burdens on a relationship. Yet I lack for nothing in our sex life. She's going to be sexy to me till the day I die.


start hijck
that post still a masterpiece. (You know which one right? I quote the crap out of it)

#2 most powerful in my book is one by Awake1. Much shorter but again shows the agony.
end hijack


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Yup, I remember it. And it's still true for any BS. Thanks.


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