# Wife is tired. Just tired. Not angry, sad, PO'ed. Just tired.



## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

Um what exactly am I supposed to do with that? 

I would like to explain further but I don't know exactly where to go with this. :scratchhead:


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I told my husband that the night I also told him I was divorcing him. What I meant by it was that I was tired. Just so very, very, tired of fighting for our marriage, of fighting _him_ to save our marriage. Tired of trickle truth, of feeling like a fool, of being lied to and mocked and taken advantage of. Tired of the worry, stress, struggle, heartbreak of pushing him uphill toward recovery when he was the one who'd cheated - multiple times, as he'd only just moments before finally admitted. I was too tired to be angry, sad, p!ssed off, or even really very hurt. And, in the end, just too [email protected] tired to do it anymore. There was peace in that soul-deep exhaustion. And I was going to hold on to it with all I had. I'd hit my limit. I was done. Just like that, I was done. 

So, I think you _really_ need to find out what your wife means by this.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

We talked it out some and a lot of it comes down to piss poor communication on top of totally different life expectations and her over driving need to have control over every detail of life around her. 

So much of our problems come down to totally different meanings of what and how each of us define what makes our individual lives happy, functional and to have a sense of reward.

I play the long term goal game. What does or does not go right or wrong today or this week or this month does not get under my skin. She 'what if's' every detail until it drives her to exhaustion which means that whenever a single detail of today doesn't fit exactly as planned everything that was to go after that flies apart. 

For me getting up going and doing what is needed of me plus getting some of my personal tasks done is a good day. No need to clutter it up with worrying about "what if" this that or whatever happened, since it obviously didn't, and when something unexpected happens or sets me back I deal with it accordingly. No 'what if' no fuss no crisis. Just assess what happened and what needs to be done and continue on.

I can't relate to her type of thinking. It's simply not in my nature and I can not learn or view life that way. 

Right now I feel so bad for her. What I see is someone who has wrapped themself up so tight in trying to control every detail of life around herself that she is suffocating in her own fruitless efforts. 

I don't know if this is fixable or not. If she feels being away from me will maker her happy I am okay with it. I made it clear I do not want her being miserable to please me. 
Personally I see so much of this is her mind set and being away from me is not going to solve anything. It will reduce the level of 'what if's' in one area of her life but its going to pile so many more unpredictable extras on her that I can't see how it would help in the long term. 

I feel so bad for her right now. I don't know how to help or do anything to make it better but she agreed to go and meet with a professional psychologist and counselor to get checked out.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Hire housekeeper, go on vacay, get kids in activities so she can have a break and go get drunk


Cant afford either and she wouldn't let her daughter out of her sight for more than five minutes. 

The getting blistering drunk might help her though.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> I told my husband that the night I also told him I was divorcing him. What I meant by it was that I was tired. Just so very, very, tired of fighting for our marriage, of fighting him to save our marriage. Tired of trickle truth, of feeling like a fool, of being lied to and mocked and taken advantage of. Tired of the worry, stress, struggle, heartbreak of pushing him uphill toward recovery when he was the one who'd cheated - multiple times, as he'd only just moments before finally admitted. I was too tired to be angry, sad, p!ssed off, or even really very hurt. And, in the end, just too [email protected] tired to do it anymore. There was peace in that soul-deep exhaustion. And I was going to hold on to it with all I had. I'd hit my limit. I was done. Just like that, I was done.
> 
> So, I think you really need to find out what your wife means by this.


WOW! I can't begin to touch single thing on that list.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

married tech said:


> Personally I see so much of this is her mind set and being away from me is not going to solve anything. It will reduce the level of 'what if's' in one area of her life but its going to pile so many more unpredictable extras on her that I can't see how it would help in the long term.


But won't it reduce stress in your life not being exposed to someone who is so stuck in control-mode that she what-if's everything to death?

You can't actually make it better. She owns her problems; not you. She either wants help or she wants to continue trying to control everything.

I was married to someone like your wife. He became totally engrossed in worrying about and analyzing every single detail of a situation. All the variables had to be talked to death.

The funny thing was, for all his attempts to control things, he was out of control himself. 

I certainly don't miss any of that nonsense. JMO.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I've been saying that a lot lately so I can relate. If I recall your wife works full time (breadwinner), has a kid who she is reconnecting with, and does the cooking and cleaning? The combination of everything can just get to a person. She wants to control, always worries "what if" I get that too, I'm an anxious person. The more I do, the more worried I get. If it's all up to me and I fail, then what? KWIM? It's a horrible feeling. When your juggling you are always having to keep your eye on the ball, can't just throw them up and hope for the best. 

If you can take off her plate she might relax a bit. Maybe have her focus her main concerns into maybe 3-4 different areas that you can make an active (short term) plan on? Like a 6 month plan/goal so that problem is fixed, then the next? Maybe pick up 1 or 2 things that you are now responsible for so she doesn't feel she has to control those areas?


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Rowan said:


> I told my husband that the night I also told him I was divorcing him. What I meant by it was that I was tired. Just so very, very, tired of fighting for our marriage, of fighting _him_ to save our marriage. Tired of trickle truth, of feeling like a fool, of being lied to and mocked and taken advantage of. Tired of the worry, stress, struggle, heartbreak of pushing him uphill toward recovery when he was the one who'd cheated - multiple times, as he'd only just moments before finally admitted. I was too tired to be angry, sad, p!ssed off, or even really very hurt. And, in the end, just too [email protected] tired to do it anymore. There was peace in that soul-deep exhaustion. And I was going to hold on to it with all I had. I'd hit my limit. I was done. Just like that, I was done.
> 
> So, I think you _really_ need to find out what your wife means by this.



That's called Apathy. It's what all the relationship and marriage building books tell you to fear.

When someone hits that mark, it's all fkd.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> That's called Apathy. It's what all the relationship and marriage building books tell you to fear.
> 
> When someone hits that mark, it's all fkd.


Yes.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

YOu are a man, she is a woman.
Men hunt, women gather.

If you want to have a good marriage you have to take actions to make her life better directly as a result of your being in it.

Are you doing that?


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> But won't it reduce stress in your life not being exposed to someone who is so stuck in control-mode that she what-if's everything to death?
> 
> You can't actually make it better. She owns her problems; not you. She either wants help or she wants to continue trying to control everything.
> 
> ...


I adapt to life rather well. For me I focus on the gains of having her around and not the inconveniences. I know what I contribute and its value Vs hers and I can't find any more honest or fair way to deal with things. 

I love her and want her to be happy and content with life to a similar level as me but that is ultimately her decision. I can not do it for her. 



> f you want to have a good marriage you have to take actions to make her life better directly as a result of your being in it.
> 
> Are you doing that?


I believe I am. I have tried a number of different approaches and the last one was to just do exactly what she wants how she wants it to the best of my abilities even when things go against my better judgement. 
Even that did not make her happy. Her expectations were continually in conflict with each other and her goals and the time scales they are based on were unobtainable by all rational means and methods. I just went along with it until she ran herself to the point of burnout. 

If she goes I will feel bad but I will get over it and continue on towards my lifes goals and journey. My biggest concern is given her past track record if she leaves she will have a temporary fix by initially blaming everything on me but just as with her past life experiences the same problems will just keep coming back and taking over her life again and again.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Not addressed *RESENTMENT* she holds onto with a vice grip.

That is your wife's issue.

Call her on it.
It truley is HER ISSUE and if you cannot get her to address it your marriage will FAIL


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

SO much of what she see hears and perceives in life by my views seems to be taken so far out of context it scares me a bit. 

I am not a great talker and never have been. Complex emotion based verbal communication is not my strong point. 

For me keeping my mouth shut and thinking about what all information has been presented to me for a considerable length of time in order to find what I can handle as a valid understanding and resulting reaction is normal. I am the quiet thinker type. THats all there is to me. 

SHe however takes my silence as being like talking to a wall. SHe wants immediate answers to questions I can barely comprehend or make sense of and I can't do that. Especially when what I see to be what she wants to have a total 180 degree conflict with some other topic or action that she also wants. 

For example. 
She wants me to get a job (even though I already make enough on my side line self employment to cover may half of the bills) so I went looking. I got accepted at a local company but they wanted me to sign on for 60 - 70+ hour work weeks. That is an unacceptable work load for me with having a the house project going at the same time (which she wants me to work full time on that as well) so I turned them down. 
What I have done is taken on a job offer from a local elementary school who needed a bus driver for three paid hours a day at ~$30 an hour which gives me a steady extra income of around $1200 -$1300 a month spending money (About doubling my present average but still less than 2/3 of what she takes home) plus the free time to continue my side work of being self employed of which pays my part of the bill plus allows me the time I need to work on the house as well. 
Triple win as I see it! I'm employed where I am appreciated, It pays well and it leaves me with plenty of extra time. :smthumbup:

She still does not see it that way. She says that what I do for work is not important. Where I work is not important. What I get paid is not important and how much I make is not important. Yet she is not happy that I am doing what I do getting paid well for it and still having the time to do my normal work which also pays well for the time involved plus leaves me free to do the new house project as things can be taken care of. 

SHe is still not pleased and I don't know what to say to that. I just don't think it's 100% me and my doing causing her problems at that point.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Not addressed RESENTMENT she holds onto with a vice grip.
> 
> That is your wife's issue.
> 
> ...


That's what I have had suspicions of for a long time. She is a very jealous and competitive person but lacks the personal focus and drive to actually fulfill her wants that meet her expectations which just drives her to more jealousy and resentment which is what I feel gets dumped on me for not working hard enough to meet her expectations for her. 

She wants a life that is more than I can provide without her actually helping me in a gainful way. No help and things go at my pace or ride my butt because you are not happy about the speed at which I am fulfilling your life for you and I go even slower. Thats how it works.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> I've been saying that a lot lately so I can relate. If I recall your wife works full time (breadwinner), has a kid who she is reconnecting with, and does the cooking and cleaning? The combination of everything can just get to a person. She wants to control, always worries "what if" I get that too, I'm an anxious person. The more I do, the more worried I get. If it's all up to me and I fail, then what? KWIM? It's a horrible feeling. When your juggling you are always having to keep your eye on the ball, can't just throw them up and hope for the best.
> 
> If you can take off her plate she might relax a bit. Maybe have her focus her main concerns into maybe 3-4 different areas that you can make an active (short term) plan on? Like a 6 month plan/goal so that problem is fixed, then the next? Maybe pick up 1 or 2 things that you are now responsible for so she doesn't feel she has to control those areas?


In a way I have been trying to help ease her perceived loads but just a soon as I take one thing off her she adds another one or more. 

As far as her home duties I am not the least bit concerned whether or not we have a fully prepared over the top meal that takes 1 - 2 hours to prepare or whether she tosses a pizza in the oven or does a good old fashioned hot dogs and sausage on the barbecue meal in 10 - 15 minutes. Heck soup and grilled cheese sandwiches that are done in 5 minutes is fine with everyone (but her). 
I would do more cooking but it's been made very clear that I do not cook the exact way she wants so I am to stay out of the kitchen and leave the meals to her. At best I can take us out to eat on weekends and that it. 

Similar with the housework. She expects it to a standard and detail that I cant meet or find justifiable. Vacuum the house once a week and do laundry as needed. I can handle that. 
What I cant handle is vacuum the house mop and scrub the whole house top to bottom wash everything that is washable in detail then go over it all again just in case I missed something.

For me laundry used to be rather enjoyable. Now that it has a 30 step process followed by a 20 step drying and putting away detail for every load that is forever changing and I can't keep it up to her expectations. 

Lights in one load, darks in another, jackets and sweaters in another and my work clothes separate from everyone elses I can handle. 
Socks go in sock drawers, underwear go in underwear drawers, shirts go with the shirts and pants go with the pants. No triple fold and flip or double roll and tuck or eight step fold flip press tuck repress and ... ( I forget the rest) for who know what items. 
If she wants to continually make meals a 1 - 2 hour job and 2 - 3 hours of weekend house work into a two full day project to make sure everything is done exactly the way she wants it she has to do it herself.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"She still does not see it that way. She says that what I do for work is not important. Where I work is not important. What I get paid is not important and how much I make is not important. Yet she is not happy that I am doing what I do getting paid well for it and still having the time to do my normal work which also pays well for the time involved plus leaves me free to do the new house project as things can be taken care of. 

SHe is still not pleased and I don't know what to say to that. I just don't think it's 100% me and my doing causing her problems at that point."

If she was totally into you and felt content she wouldn't care if you were a jet pilot or supported yourself by picking up cans. Women know how to talk. Your's is basically saying nothing but "I'm not happy". If she isn't telling you the real story about why she isn't happy, it might be that she isn't ready (undecided), or maybe because she really doesn't know why she feels unhappy (depression). This isn't about fatigue or extra jobs, where you work or how much you bring in. This might be about her need to feel secure. Security for her might look like two people working toward a goal that's important to her and making real progress. She entered the marriage with expectations just like you did. In her world, maybe a "good" man busts his fanny to help his woman improve the nest. If her mother and father are still married, what roles do each of them play? That's probably what her expectation of marriage looks like. If her daddy was primary bread winner and sacrificed daily for his family, she's probably not going to be content with a guy who pays his half of the bills. If her childhood was chaotic and insecure, that might explain her need to feel in control of things. If her mother ran a tight ship, that could also explain her apparent need to control things. Most of what we know about marriage (good or bad) we learn from our parents.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

Personally I feel that it has a lot to do with personal health and medical issues along with past life experiences. 

She made some bad choices in past life that are still following her around of which unfortunately they are ones that I have no control or way to help her clean up. Believe me if I could fix them by any rational means I would. 

She owes a pile of money for past debts which I would help her with but she also has a load of money owed to her by past people that far exceeds her debts but she refuses to deal with them and would prefer to just ignore that which she is owed all together even though it amounts to enough that all debts could be paid and she would not have to work for a year if she didn't want to. That just bugs the crap out of me. 

I can't work with that mentality or accept responsibility for others financial debts or owed money that came before we ever met.  

As her life expectations go I find them to be largely way beyond the range of what she or I grew up in. 

Her parents were average people nothing more. Dad was a government paper pusher and mom was a teacher so as you can guess form that they had average unassuming lives and have always lived as such.

Same with mine. Teachers for parents so just the same average home average life growing up so for me having average life goals and living conditions is what I take to be normal and expected.

Home workload wise I have never expected her to work exactly as I do but I do not take over detailing or dwelling on something that is not needing it as a justifiable reason to spend all day on a simple chore or action and I certainly do not find that to then carry an equal validity for not doing something else. 

That said I do my work as needed and generally don't make a big deal or fuss or load everything with pointless drama over how fast or slow I got something done. She more often than not does and does it to such an extreme as to justify not doing the work again. 

A good example is she pays the phone, internet, and TV bills. Fair enough but there is a catch. She works for the phone company and we get the super over the top deluxe package for all three for what most everyone else would pay the bare bones basics for. I see that as a monthly expense on her part of something like $40 - $60 tops. She sees it as being worth the equivalent of the $240 - $300 it would cost anyone else so it should be weighted against me paying an actual $240 - $300 a month in other bills.  

Now that said if I counter weighted the avoided costs I save us a year by doing our own construction work, vehicle maintenance home heating experiences and what not that most anyone else normally has to pay someone else for to live how we do and have what we have Holy Moneyola Batman! 
Seriously it's a lot! 5 digits worth on just avoided heating and vehicle costs alone and double that number for the dirt work and materials acquisitions I have been doing for our house project just last year.
(But that 'does not count' because I enjoy doing it and don't actually find it to be "a chore" to do.)


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Do her issues mainly revolve around money?

I think she's one of those generally depressed typed people. There is no amount of anything you can do or say to make things easier for her. She'll find a way to be dissatisfied with it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I really struggle to see why you two got married in the first place, much less why you continue to butt heads...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Do her issues mainly revolve around money?
> 
> I think she's one of those generally depressed typed people. There is no amount of anything you can do or say to make things easier for her. She'll find a way to be dissatisfied with it.


I used to think so but as of lately I think the issues revolve around control and all aspect and expectations of her having it. 

After that communication is a big one. 

I take what people say at face value so if they communicate it wrong I get it wrong and a lot of what she says has far more behind it than I can ever begin to guess or intemperate so for me "I'm Fine" means life is going good enough so no problems for me because that's what "I'm fine" means when I say it. 

What I am saying is I cant read minds have never pretended to so when I tell something to someone there is very little of ever hidden meaning behind it. 
If someone else wants to load their comments with whatever hidden meanings they want I am not getting to catch it and I will take "I'm fine" to mean "you're fine" and life is good!


Depression wise I have strong suspicions she is at least slightly depressed. Her general actions and how she treats her health scream it to me being I dealt with depression myself and every single action she does reminds me of what I did and felt at that point in my life. 

She also has hypothyroidism and I personally do not think her medication is right or ever has been. To me she comes off as having gotten it where it's sort of working most of the time and not 100% working all the time being too many of her health quirks and general attitude are what I am reading as to be heavy indicators of a thyroid medication incompatibility. 
Lack of energy, slow but continual weight gain, short temper, life is unfair, no interest in anything she used to enjoy. she feels the whole world is a bunch of lazy slackers and she has to do everything herself (skewed, irrational/unrealistic or incomplete thought processes) 

Then to further things she really thinks that homeopathic and other para science voodoo crap works and that mainstream medical prescription meds are just a scam to get money from sick people. 

But what do I know? She said she was "fine". :scratchhead:


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> really struggle to see why you two got married in the first place, much less why you continue to butt heads...


Who she is now is no where close to the person I fell in love with and married. If she had acted like this back then I would have tossed her out after the first week. 


I want the woman I married. The woman that her friends from her home country described to me when we were there last fall. Energetic, positive, outgoing, happy to do and learn new things. Loved to cook and take care of her family and excelled at her job and life in general. 

That's who I married and I want her back.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

married tech said:


> I used to think so but as of lately I think the issues revolve around control and all aspect and expectations of her having it.
> 
> After that communication is a big one.
> 
> ...



The way you describe her IMO sounds like she's depressed. The thing about that is, she has to seek help for that. All you can do is suggest she make an appointment with a therapist.

She's NOT fine. She just doesn't want to talk about it. That's what that means... and I do understand your frustration with her not just being straight with you. It can be very annoying to have to read between the lines all the time. Say what you mean and mean what you say is the way to be.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

How long did you know her and date her before you got married? How well do you think you knew her? Maybe this is the real her, and the other one was a facade?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> How long did you know her and date her before you got married? How well do you think you knew her? Maybe this is the real her, and the other one was a facade?


I knew her for a little over two years and the people who have known her longer describe to be far more like the person I married than who I am living with now. 

Same with my family and friends. They say I am for the most part the same happy go lucky deal with life as it happens person I have always been but with a few improvements from having her around.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Kids can't live on hot dogs, pizza and grilled cheese. They are fine for the occasional busy night but most people wouldn't be comfortable with that on a regular basis. 

For the chores just do your half of them your way and clean up after yourself. If she wants to go back and fix things it's up to her but at least you've done your part. 

I think putting importance on things like vehicle maintenance and construction vs. everyday chores is just something where you might never meet eye to eye on. For example, a while ago H got a free, broken car. He spend a few hundred and some time and fixed it up himself. Great, but him being busy with that project didn't mean I had less work to do. It was not something, like Hicks said "actions to make her life better directly as a result of your being in it." IMO it was not ok to use working on it as an excuse for not helping around the house with the day to day stuff. I'd pay the money gladly to have that other stuff done if it meant help in the household. When you present the options of paying for it or having you do it, what does she say? Maybe there's somewhere you can meet in the middle. Or with this new job you can afford a cleaner 

You live with family, right? Do they pay, clean and cook their fair share? Are they another source of stress? 

When she does tell you how she feels instead of just "I'm fine", how do you respond? Do you list off reasons why she is wrong or listen and respond with actions to show her you understood? 

All that said, sometimes people's ideals and needs just don't make for a good pairing. Trying to keep changing each other is just a long, hard, often pointless road. You'll have to figure out if/when it's just done.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Kids can't live on hot dogs, pizza and grilled cheese. They are fine for the occasional busy night but most people wouldn't be comfortable with that on a regular basis.


I never said that was all to eat. They were just examples of how fast and easy a meal can be put together when a person has had a long day or such. My point was that not every single family meal needs to be a 3 - 4 course sit down festival of food that takes hours to prepare. 



> I think putting importance on things like vehicle maintenance and construction vs. everyday chores is just something where you might never meet eye to eye on.


I agree but still it's regular maintenance I do that keeps our vehicles working and dependable. Missing vacuuming the house one weekend wont cause a major and possibly expensive breakdown. However forgetting to check the fluids on her car and wrecking an engine or transmission would. 

I don't dismiss her wants as being irrelevant. I just don't like being told that my personal preferences for what I do are not important while a chore of hers is being blown way out of of proportion and value. 



> You live with family, right? Do they pay, clean and cook their fair share? Are they another source of stress?


Daughter is 5 so her input is pretty minimal. Her dad however lives here for free as our live in babysitter of sorts and has lots of free time in a day to which I feel he could be pitching in a bit more by doing the laundry and dishes. Neither are time sensitive or high physical or stress jobs but are still ones that get my wife up tight just the same. Heck kiddo can help him and it would be a good learning experience for her. 



> When she does tell you how she feels instead of just "I'm fine", how do you respond? Do you list off reasons why she is wrong or listen and respond with actions to show her you understood?


No. I try very hard to be understanding and sympathetic to what she feels. I can relate to depression low self worth and overall feeling bad for no reason due to physical and neuro chemical imbalances. I fought those demons myself some time ago so I do have first hand understanding of what a life crippling misery they can create. 
I do however get rather short with her when it's the same crap over and over and over and there is a simple effective fix to it but she won't accept it because of some irrational reasoning or badly conceived logic against it. 

(_Yes you feel bad and have for some time. I know. You need to go and see a doctor because to be honest I really really doubt the space aliens are going to come down and fix you for you even though you are 100% that they are coming because you read it on Facebook last night._) 
That stuff blows my gasket.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> I agree but still it's regular maintenance I do that keeps our vehicles working and dependable. Missing vacuuming the house one weekend wont cause a major and possibly expensive breakdown. However forgetting to check the fluids on her car and wrecking an engine or transmission would.
> 
> I don't dismiss her wants as being irrelevant.* I just don't like being told that my personal preferences for what I do are not important while a chore of hers is being blown way out of of proportion and value. *
> 
> ...


Then be careful not to do the same thing to her. Taking care of a home and a child, doing all the cooking and cleaning for a household of 4 and working a full time job IS a high stress, physical, high value job (ask any Mother). 

You are putting a lot of value on your effort to maintain the vehicles and do outdoor work but her laundry and dishes aren't time sensitive or physical or stressful so you seem to not see the same value in them. There are different kinds of hard work.

Since saving money is an important contribution to the household for you (seems more so than making money) remember that she is also saving the household money by doing these tasks herself instead of hiring them out. Getting a nanny, a housecleaner and a cook would cost money. 


While you say you don't want to dismiss her, your words still do.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You are happy with your life. She is not happy with hers. 

She wants more money. And she expects you to earn it. Can you live with that constant pressure? Because the woman you married, who appeared to understand the situation that was presented to her beforehand, is not likely to be coming back.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Think hard about the following statement:

She's not happy with her life because you are happy with your life - and she perceives happiness as a zero sum game. 

Write down what your expectations are regarding quality of life, financials, contributions, etc.

Don't overcount your contributions any more than she does hers. Be upfront and honest.

She comes from a country of hardworking people who generally work for others. She may have a hard time visualizing your contributions. Heck, my wife thinks I'm a slacker, and I make more than she does but work half the hours...

You may get to a point that only serious MC will work. Start thinking about it now rather than when the blowout fight occurs and one of yo walks out.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

married tech said:


> If she wants to continually make meals a 1 - 2 hour job and 2 - 3 hours of weekend house work into a two full day project to make sure everything is done exactly the way she wants it she has to do it herself.


I started cooking stuff myself after a few rather dismal failures of wife's cooking. She's usually a pretty good cook but does exactly what you describe. 

It's all about control. She may feel that she does not have control over her life, so she excercises as much control as possible over stuff she has control over.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Then be careful not to do the same thing to her. Taking care of a home and a child, doing all the cooking and cleaning for a household of 4 and working a full time job IS a high stress, physical, high value job (ask any Mother).
> 
> You are putting a lot of value on your effort to maintain the vehicles and do outdoor work but her laundry and dishes aren't time sensitive or physical or stressful so you seem to not see the same value in them. There are different kinds of hard work.


SO how exactly am I supposed to weight them?

I mean well before she ever arrived in my life I had to do all of the cooking and cleaning things myself on top of working 50 - 60 hour weeks and doing all of my usual home maintenance work. To me those things were easy peasy and I never thought twice about them. 

As dishes goes she has a automatic dishwasher I never had. CLothes wise we now have a commercial pair of washer and dryer units that can burn through laundry like no ones business!
Same with the vacuum cleaner. I picked up a used light weight commercial unit from a school that sucks up anything. 
Cooking wise we have more kitchen tools and appliances now than I ever had. 

As our daughter goes I spend as much time with her as mom does so that's a wash in my views. 

The only real differences is I never nit picked those tasks with OCD like detail to which effect I do not consider that a valid excuse for them being harder or more stressful.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

she's not seeing the same value of DIY as you do, that is the real answer. 

I know it's counterintuitive but other cultures don't value highly skilled DIY the way we do. 

She may be over counting her contributions and under counting yours. You need to arrive at a baseline where both of you agree you are in equal standing.

It will not be fair for both but come to agreement first on that then work your way to details.

If you've never mowed a lawn in 95F you may equate mowing and vacuuming the same. Show her what your contributions look like. Ask her to help you even just for the purpose of showing her how hard it is.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> SO how exactly am I supposed to weight them?
> 
> I mean well before she ever arrived in my life I had to do all of the cooking and cleaning things myself on top of working 50 - 60 hour weeks and doing all of my usual home maintenance work. To me those things were easy peasy and I never thought twice about them.


You're comparing cooking and cleaning for yourself to cooking and cleaning for a family of 4 people? Sounds like someone who's never done it. It doesn't matter how good your appliances are, it still takes time and effort to do them. Time she doesn't have a lot of with a 40 hour a week job and a child. Please tell me you've never said something like this to her. If you have, it's no wonder she's tired. You don't get it. She's working hard and doesn't get appreciated for it. You may be too but cutting her down is not the way to solve it. 

My H does DIY. He's done the labor work thing (we're Northern Alberta so it's big here) He fixes cars and tears out kitchens and rebuilds them by hand, he can do a bunch of different things with machines outside that I don't even know what it all is. It's a lot of work. He's done all this while working more than 40 a week. But he still - daily- tells me how hard I work and how I'm doing a good job even though it is a lot to do. 

I'm not saying it replaces the problem of him actually _helping _me with these things but it's still nice and after a stressful day it feels good to know someone noticed. If he tried to say my work was NBD because his takes physical strength and skill there's no way I would be happily patting him on the back for all he does. It would likely get into a pissing match of who works the hardest which sounds like where you are now. 

My suggestion is try it. Tell her that you notice how hard she is working and that you appreciate it and she's doing a good job. Tell her everyday. It might get her to start giving it back and clear up some tension. 

I did ask H about this thread (direct quoting, not my own summery) as he has been more in your shoes while I just have been in your wife's and he agrees also. 

Have you never read threads by Mothers who are tired because they have no help with the household chores? Read a few, you might get more of your wife's point of view there. Or send her here for advice on her side of it, likely she will be told to get a house cleaner out of the joint account because it's too much for one person to take on themselves. Many SAHMs get help too.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> She may be over counting her contributions and under counting yours. You need to arrive at a baseline where both of you agree you are in equal standing.
> 
> It will not be fair for both but come to agreement first on that then work your way to details.
> 
> If you've never mowed a lawn in 95F you may equate mowing and vacuuming the same. Show her what your contributions look like. Ask her to help you even just for the purpose of showing her how hard it is.



Oh believe me we have been down that road a few times and every single time I have happily offered to do a full switch of housework duties for my outside duties and got shot down because she admits she cant carry my workload. 

I am not saying her contributions are not valuable. What I am saying is I do not feel that they are that labor and time intensive as to earn the level of fuss they get being I have on occasion done her full load of chores for the whole family and never had a problem finding the time or energy to do them.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Have you never read threads by Mothers who are tired because they have no help with the household chores?



Okay... To be fair how many single dads have ever came here and whined about how much work the household chores are in comparison to the rest of their jobs and other work on top of dealing with their kids? 

I couldn't find any. (But I am crap at using the search systems here.)


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> Okay... To be fair how many single dads have ever came here and whined about how much work the household chores are in comparison to the rest of their jobs and other work on top of dealing with their kids?
> 
> I couldn't find any. (But I am crap at using the search systems here.)


There are some posts where men who are the breadwinner also have to come home and do all the cooking and cleaning and the responses are the same. She needs to help.

If you are choosing to do DIY instead of working then it's your job. Household chores are still shared 50/50 as you both work. If you were working full time and doing DIY then it would be different.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

married tech said:


> Okay... To be fair how many single dads have ever came here and whined about how much work the household chores are in comparison to the rest of their jobs and other work on top of dealing with their kids?
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't find any. (But I am crap at using the search systems here.)



Running a household is not difficult - with apologies to the SAH parents). I raised two girls with little help from Mrs. Uterus...

Those who insist it takes hours to do the laundry or mop etc simply are not working as efficiently as they could be.

My wife refuses to use the Bosch dishwasher because "it will break" or "it does not do a good job" or " it wastes water". None true, of course, but it did break because it was rarely used.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Those who insist it takes hours to do the laundry or mop etc simply are not working as efficiently as they could be.


That's how I see it. I don't take 6 hours to do the laundry because each cycle takes an hour to run it's course. 

I toss in a load then vacuum. Move that washed load to the dryer and put in these second load to wash. Then do the rest of the house tidying up while the dryer runs itself out. 

Move dryer load one to bedroom and wash load two to dryer and do something else for another hour and so on. 

In my eyes vacuuming the whole house takes about as long as one load in the wash machine takes. Follow up tidying takes about as long as the first dryer load. Dishes, garbage and whatever else take about the same time as dryer load two. 

The next four wash and dry loads get done as I come and go to and from the house for the rest of the day. Total time involved 2 hours out of the weekend followed by 5 - 10 minutes four more times for the other laundry loads being moved or put away which in the summer time the time between those would cover the weeks worth of lawn mowing and other misc yard stuff. 

The rest of the year it could involve vehicle work play time or kicking back and watching movies. My point is Laundry, dishes, house clean up, and vacuuming are not a 100% time involved 10+ hour job set. They can be done that way but that does not mean they are.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

john117 said:


> Running a household is not difficult - with apologies to the SAH parents). I raised two girls with little help from Mrs. Uterus...


So, Mrs. Uterus is her actual name or am I sensing some resentment and hurt feelings about the fact that you were full time worker and homemaker all by yourself while you felt she should have been doing more to help you? 

You never got tired, never complained, never asked for more help because it was just so easy to work, raise children, keep a home, and feed them proper meals all on your own? If a man came on here who did it all himself, you would tell him "oh well, it's easy"?

I would tell your wife that she needed to help, if she was at home I would tell her that she was responsible for the majority of the work, if she was also working full time too I would tell her she should be doing half. Would you tell her the same thing? If so, why would you tell a man differently?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

She did the cooking and dishes but little else. After two girls and 24 years worth of piano, French, Arabic, Kumon math, sports, PTO meetings, teacher nights, science fairs, art competitions, national this or that days, drivers ed, help with homework, help with clothes shopping, college applications, piano recitals, orthodontics, doctor visits, SAT tutoring, play dates, prom, daycare or preschool pick up and drop, extracurricular activities, etc etc you get the idea 

All while my wife was busy with her career... And my wife still thinks I'm a slacker . I was happy to not have her involved to be honest. Zero empathy.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> After two girls and 24 years worth of piano, French, Arabic, Kumon math, sports, PTO meetings, teacher nights, science fairs, art competitions, national this or that days, drivers ed, help with homework, help with clothes shopping, college applications, piano recitals, orthodontics, doctor visits, SAT tutoring, play dates, prom, daycare or preschool pick up and drop, extracurricular activities, etc etc you get the idea



Wow! My parents just decided to find any and every excuse to ground me from everything from about age 8 to 16 so that they didn't have to have deal with me participating in any of that. 

Seriously from about 3rd grade to 9th I was grounded more months than I was in school. I did try track few months in 9th grade and basketball for 9th and 10th grades and that was it. By 11th and 12th I didn't care any more.


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