# Why do some Hs have confusion or conflicts when providing deeply passionate sex for Ws?



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

What I mean is, from what I've read, some Hs have internal conflicts when providing some boundary stretching sex acts in some of their sexual encounters with Ws.

The role play or doing some things the W has dropped hints on wanting to be treated like pure sex animals, now and then, and want their Hs to use them lustfully and with abandon to control them and treat them like dirty girls, if you willl.

Why are some Hs unable to carry thru without breaking character that then ruins it for the Ws?

There are all kinds of scenarios I don't want to be too descriptive or limit the scenarios but hopefully you get my drift.

Skipping over the madonna-wh0#e complex, when it's made clear by the W or SO, why do some men shrink back from being able to take the lead after clear hints are told to them?

Thus the W don't get what they want time to time and eventually the Ws have a build up of not getting what they want time to time, and get unsatisfied in some respects.

What keeps a man from being fully being able to mentally and physically play that role for her?

I've read, some guys say they can't bring themselves to give her sex that way time to time, when she's asking clearly she just wants him to take control and use her, the guys say they can't go that far, keeps asking her if this is ok every two minutes, ruining it for her.

A serious question, what makes a guy not to be able to fulfill her erotic fantasies with she says tonight dear, I'm yours do with me what you will.

I don't get the not being able to do so concept. So is a serious interested in human relations question.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Based on your research, has this problem ever occurred? If so, how often? It seems like a rarity or even an impossibility.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sfort said:


> Based on your research, has this problem ever occurred? If so, how often? It seems like a rarity or even an impossibility.


From I've read, some men have an issue "treating the mother of their kids, or any woman" like "what they perceive as" insert the common words sl#t, wh0$re, or disrespectful "if they think she's a real lady" that just couldn't want "to be treated that way".

Creating a conflict in the man's mental state, on what he should really do in that scenario.


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## Thatguyoverthere744 (Apr 19, 2021)

It's really hard to say, although I would disagree with the previous reply and think it is quite common. Just a few possible reasons right off the top of my head...

1. He's a more reactive than proactive sex partner, meaning he needs to be turned on to act aggressively. Just telling him "Hey, I'm ready! Come use me like a dirty *****" does little to nothing to turn him on. You might try arousing him first then trying to get him to switch to dominant mode.

2. His tastes might tend to the more submissive as opposed to dominant. Maybe while you're sitting there wishing he would be more active and dominant, he's sitting there wishing you would do the same thing to him. This can often be more difficult for men to admit as they think they (a) are supposed to be the aggressor; (b) will be seen as weak or not desirable by their mate (probably true in your case; or (c) will not get their needs met in that regard anyway. 

3. Is he normally affectionate and seeks sex with you? If not, then it might be a low testosterone issue. It's always good to have those levels checked.

4. Treating a woman like a piece of meat to be used for his pleasure may simply not be an appealing scenario for him, even if you tell him you want it. If that's the case, you may try finding out what his secret desires are and offering to exchange role plays with him.

5. He's aware that while a woman may say she wants him to just do what he wants to her, almost every guy knows that if he does something she doesn't like it's not going to end well. That's why people into BDSM value scene negotiations and discussions of limits so highly. A woman who wants to be thrown down on the bed and banged like a rag doll may not want to be tied up at all. She may not want to be spanked. She may not want to be held down. If you haven't discussed the possibilities beforehand the amount of stress you impose on your partner to just figure it out as he goes along can be a real mood killer.

The best way to find out what is going on is to sit down with him and ask. Have a discussion about what you both like, what you both want, and what you both need. Do not have this discussion in bed, have this discussion during non-sexy time.Be open. Be vulnerable. And prepare to hear things you may not like but be willing to consider whatever you hear without judgment and with care and concern for each others feelings.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Personal observations are, when youthful, the first couple times, I was too much into treating a hot and ready girl as she wanted (at 13) which was age appropriate but inaccurate but after the next encounters with older girls/women, ie 14, 15, realized as was being taught by them, that to not be ready to roll that way crippled repeat sex so I embraced and appreciated women like them some hot and serious loving even if very lady like during the day.

That brought me up to batting near .500 ever since, and started my serious and hearty appreciation of the diversity on women, I never looked back.

That really was the creation of successful relations with women.

So, I thought I'd see if others shared similar knowledge.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Why do some wife's want this but have trouble asking for it from their husbands? Some people treat sex like a coffee date, other see sex it the ultimate form of intimacy and in turn vulnerability. Lots of time the marriage dynamic doesn't lead to one being willing to be vulnerable.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

My guess is the answer to your question is what one of the other posters said - if the man is passive, reactive, or submissive then the scenario you posted wouldn't appeal to them.

Based on XH he lost interest in sex with me once I became pregnant so I guess that would support your theory partially of his not being attracted to me because I was now mother of his child or whatever. During our relationship after the baby, it was sporadic. He wasn't interested really in taking charge, and didn't really have any enthusiasm, then it just dwindled to nothing. The reality is that it was probably more complicated than that. But I do think societal ideas about what women should want or be like, or want to do play into it. I'm taking a break from dating for a few years. I miss the sex, but I just am really tired of all the other stuff. It's gonna take a while before I'm remotely interested in dating again. It's too hard to really trust someone and there are just too many complications in the minefield that is modern dating. Just concentrating on building a happy and fulfilling life for now.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I tend to be maybe 65/45 with more aggressive sex being what I prefer. Right now I have a new sexual partner and we are still learning about each other. He obviously starts gentle and slow, and seems very hyper conscious not to hurt me or do anything I don’t like. The last few times we have had sex I eventually ask to switch positions with me on top and I take control. I think this is a relief for him because I can do what I want, and he doesn’t know what I want because he doesn’t really know me yet. Yes we will all figure it out. I love to be on top though and in control.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

But at the end of the day everyone e has their own sexual preferences. There are some guys who don’t like to be in the more submissive role and some that don’t like to be in the more dominant role. It’s the same for women.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> I tend to be maybe 65/45 with more aggressive sex being what I prefer. Right now I have a new sexual partner and we are still learning about each other. He obviously starts gentle and slow, and seems very hyper conscious not to hurt me or do anything I don’t like. The last few times we have had sex I eventually ask to switch positions with me on top and I take control. I think this is a relief for him because I can do what I want, and he doesn’t know what I want because he doesn’t really know me yet. Yes we will all figure it out. I love to be on top though and in control.


Yeah, I know, you want to rub it in.

Literally.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> Yeah, I know, you want to rub it in.
> 
> Literally.


I want nothing more than to get taken and banged really hard while he whispers dirty things in my ear. I doubt that will be happening anytime soon because I sure as hell would never ask for me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Why do some wife's want this but have trouble asking for it from their husbands? Some people treat sex like a coffee date, other see sex it the ultimate form of intimacy and in turn vulnerability. Lots of time the marriage dynamic doesn't lead to one being willing to be vulnerable.


During and after college, moving to a big city, most of the late 20s, 30s, late 30s women were not shy in giving directions and I learned the requests were more than just common, and those experiences cemented the standard is hot and heavy, being in tune for any hints for less ( infrequent) or more (very, very common) so it made me fully respect the depth of passion in most women and to be there for them in that way. It worked so well that it's a norm, in my observations that many demure women during the day were hopeful they could have some hot and wild nights.

The guy should never be assuming so but open to it, so he can always know he was going only where invited to still be kind and courteous when not between the sheets so to speak.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> During and after college, moving to a big city, most of the late 20s, 30s, late 30s women were not shy in giving directions and I learned the requests were more than just common, and those experiences cemented the standard is hot and heavy, being in tune for any hints for less ( infrequent) or more (very, very common) so it made me fully respect the depth of passion in most women and to be there for them in that way. It worked so well that it's a norm, in my observations that many demure women during the day were hopeful they could have some hot and wild nights.
> 
> The guy should never be assuming so but open to it, so he can always know he was going only where invited to still be kind and courteous when not between the sheets so to speak.


You miss my point. In answer to your question, In the scenario you paint, It's the husband, who is unwilling to be vulnerable not the wife. In the same way many wives are unwilling to be vulnerable and be truly sexual open with their husbands.

This is not a judgment but given the large number of partners I am not sure this is something you can understand. I don't believe people with large number of partners understand how other people feel very exposed around sex. 

By the way I think this is good advice in general.


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## Girlonfire (Apr 7, 2021)

I once read somewhere that men who are high in “need for achievement” as a personality trait tend to be very submissive in bed. It’s like the only place they can let go of their aggressive, “achieve it all”, go getter sort of attitude and be really taken control of. They enjoy that for once, some one else is in charge of them. 

It made sense to me since men tend to be conditioned to be dominant in the work place. Hence, in bed with their wives, they can let her take over and enjoy the freedom that comes with it. Also, men who are sensitive and can’t show it around other people might show it as submission in bed. They might enjoy the gentleness and slowness of the process.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I mean, I think the best advice for all men and women is switch it up. I suspect even women who love this kind of sex would get tired of it if that was the same thing every time.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Girlonfire said:


> I once read somewhere that men who are high in “need for achievement” as a personality trait tend to be very submissive in bed. It’s like the only place they can let go of their aggressive, “achieve it all”, go getter sort of attitude and be really taken control of. They enjoy that for once, some one else is in charge of them.
> 
> It made sense to me since men tend to be conditioned to be dominant in the work place. Hence, in bed with their wives, they can let her take over and enjoy the freedom that comes with it. Also, men who are sensitive and can’t show it around other people might show it as submission in bed. They might enjoy the gentleness and slowness of the process.


I agree with this. My exH was a Cardiothoracic surgeon and was always in control and got what he wanted. In the bedroom he was actually a cuckold and liked to be submissive. In real life he was 100% the boss no questions asked.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I dated someone for a short period of time that always had aggressive sex. Like he needed it to be extreme and aggressive to even get off. It was good until I realized that’s ALL I’m getting every time.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I agree with this. My exH was a Cardiothoracic surgeon and was always in control and got what he wanted. In the bedroom he was actually a cuckold and liked to be submissive. In real life he was 100% the boss no questions asked.


Was he not receptive to the rough sex you wanted?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I dated someone for a short period of time that always had aggressive sex. Like he needed it to be extreme and aggressive to even get off. It was good until I realized that’s ALL I’m getting every time.


As it relates to this question, what is your definition of "aggressive" sex. I may not be totally following.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Sfort said:


> Was he not receptive to the rough sex you wanted?


He just always wanted to talk about watching me get “done” by another man, while having sex with me. It doesn’t matter what kind of sex it was it was a turn off for me. 
I also think that he was unable to have rough sex on top or with me in doggy for very long because he would orgasm too quickly.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> You miss my point. In answer to your question, In the scenario you paint, It's the husband, who is unwilling to be vulnerable not the wife. In the same way many wives are unwilling to be vulnerable and be truly sexual open with their husbands.
> 
> This is not a judgment but given the large number of partners I am not sure this is something you can understand. I don't believe people with large number of partners understand how other people feel very exposed around sex.
> 
> By the way I think this is good advice in general.


I'd agree. That's why I'm trying to understand why a man would not be able to be that person for her, when she wants hard, wildly mind stretching physical and mentally passionate sex. It's not all about being solely aggressive but can be, mixed with firmly and psuedo harshly taking control of her body and getting her to travel into areas of sexual depth she won't readily admit she likes but wants it badly.

I truly don't understand why a guy won't help a woman enjoy herself even if it stretches his own mind.

I can see why you mention that's where a guy might be sharing a few vulnerabilities of his own, because he has to own that role in entirety or it can faulter.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I'm thinking maybe if a guy is still rough around the edges, even after he's become financially and socially secure, it's a big plus.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> He just always wanted to talk about watching me get “done” by another man, while having sex with me. It doesn’t matter what kind of sex it was it was a turn off for me.
> I also think that he was unable to have rough sex on top or with me in doggy for very long because he would orgasm too quickly.


One thing I know for sure, is a man has to know how to weave his experience, awareness, methods, variety, and time into an encounter to make sure THAT doesn't happen. 👍

I graduated that class long ago, in my 20s. My most common application is two for you, one for me, and sometimes two for me as well.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I can only speak for myself, but I would never even treat dirty, nasty wh0re$ like dirty, nasty wh0re$. 

Hot, passionate, monkey sex , sure.

But aggressive, disrespectful, degrading, condescending tone and behavior - just no. 

And I don’t have any confusion or conflict about that. That simply isn’t my thang and I have no interest in it. 

If someone needs that kind of sex, then I am not the person for them.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

If she actually wants it I am doing it as long as it won’t get me arrested. So can’t answer that one.

Actually if it involved 3rd parties I’d also pass.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> He just always wanted to talk about watching me get “done” by another man, while having sex with me. It doesn’t matter what kind of sex it was it was a turn off for me.
> I also think that he was unable to have rough sex on top or with me in doggy for very long because he would orgasm too quickly.


For future reference Promiscent spray. A couple of those and it’s Black and Decker mode. I’m always worried about hurting her.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What I mean is, from what I've read, some Hs have internal conflicts when providing some boundary stretching sex acts in some of their sexual encounters with Ws.
> 
> The role play or doing some things the W has dropped hints on wanting to be treated like pure sex animals, now and then, and want their Hs to use them lustfully and with abandon to control them and treat them like dirty girls, if you willl.
> 
> ...


Surely we all, men and women, are different and have different likes and dislikes in sex. Not sure why that's hard to grasp.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> I want nothing more than to get taken and banged really hard while he whispers dirty things in my ear. I doubt that will be happening anytime soon because I sure as hell would never ask for me.


See? You may never ask, but a good lover who cares about what you want should be testing the waters and gauging responses, and go deeper when feeling you respond. A guy should know how to test the waters across a variety of wants a woman may have, and be in tune enough to take the right paths.

Imo a basic requirement is the man must be fully present in the moment in order to be intuitive at times, and fully appreciate that specific female in all her glory to give himself the desire to be just as engaged as well, to be her insatiable animal for a time.

And with some additional encounters it only gets better. 😉


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Well as someone who is basically living this right now I will say that it is not as straight forward as you paint it. When my wife tells me to do what I want, I then start asking questions such as:
What if I want to do item A? Answer: that does nothing for me. 
What about item B? Answer: doesn't interest me. 
What about item C? Answer: no not really. 
What about item D? Answer: I'm OK with that on occasion. 
What about item E? Answer: no, not interested. 
When you tell me to do whatever I want, what does that really mean? Answer: Just do what you want.

How about when I do what I want and the whole thing is stopped dead in its tracks when she says "NO". Then things go to heck from there.

I'm glad this stuff works really smoothly for some people.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I can only speak for myself, but I would never even treat dirty, nasty wh0re$ like dirty, nasty wh0re$.
> 
> Hot, passionate, monkey sex , sure.
> 
> ...


There's a key point, perhaps one that can shed some light, *condescending* is something to NEVER to have as part on an encounter.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'd agree. That's why I'm trying to understand why a man would not be able to be that person for her, when she wants hard, wildly mind stretching physical and mentally passionate sex. It's not all about being solely aggressive but can be, mixed with firmly and psuedo harshly taking control of her body and getting her to travel into areas of sexual depth she won't readily admit she likes but wants it badly.
> 
> I truly don't understand why a guy won't help a woman enjoy herself even if it stretches his own mind.
> 
> I can see why you mention that's where a guy might be sharing a few vulnerabilities of his own, because he has to own that role in entirety or it can faulter.


Maybe he is afraid, he won't measure up so he doesn't try.

Or maybe it's just not his thing. 

Here is a question why is it OK when women say a certain type of sex isn't her thing, but a guy "HAS TO" provide a certain type of for a women or he is a failure as a man?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

leftfield said:


> Well as someone who is basically living this right now I will say that it is not as straight forward as you paint it. When my wife tells me to do what I want, I then start asking questions such as. What if I want to do item A? Answer: that does nothing for me. What about item B? Answer: doesn't interest me. What about item C? Answer: no not really. What about item D? Answer: I'm OK with that on occasion. What about item E? Answer: no, not interested. When you tell me to do whatever I want, what does that really mean? Answer: Just do what you want.
> 
> How about when I do what I want and the whole thing is stopped dead in its tracks when she says "NO". Then things go to heck from there.
> 
> I'm glad this stuff works really smoothly for some people.


Maybe that's a difference too; I never now, never have, started asking a woman questions as in how about this, that. 

It takes her mind off her body and shifts her into a verbal thought stage, and even if she wants to try something she may be embarrassed to say it out loud for fear of judgement. 

I've always found women are dependable saying or showing a "no" on something during sex in a way that merely adjusts interactions but doesn't take her mind off the passion. 

Questions aren't the way to go, imo.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Maybe he is afraid, he won't measure up so he doesn't try.


Then he has something that's his to overcome. Until he tries he'll never know.
And he should overcome it.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Maybe that's a difference too; I never now, never have, started asking a woman questions as in how about this, that.
> 
> It takes her mind off her body and shifts her into a verbal thought stage, and even if she wants to try something she may be embarrassed to say it out loud for fear of judgement.
> 
> ...


That is great in theory. I learned to ask questions from interacting with my wife. I used to just try things and that did not go well. Once in a while, I still try it, but it always ends in a bad place. Asking questions is much safer for both of us.

Like I said; I'm really glad that some people are able to have great sex lives. I wish my experience was more like what you have experienced.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

@oldshirt , when DW tells me to just do what I want, as you mentioned, my only response is ok, come here. I take her at her word, she has full agency for herself, if she didn't mean it she shouldn't have said it.

And believe me, my DW isn't a wallflower. She has no issues at all telling me this, that.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

sokillme said:


> You miss my point. In answer to your question, In the scenario you paint, It's the husband, who is unwilling to be vulnerable not the wife.


I don't think of it as vulnerability. 

If my wife asked for this, it would definitely take some time to come to grips with her request that I basically become a self serving sexual asshole.

I can intellectualize that the request is really for her pleasure, but a ton of relationship baggage, both taught and acquired, would have to be jettisoned before I was really able to inhabit that person. 

Just like if someone asked me to talk dirty during sex. I personally can't stand it, and I would probably suck at it. Because it's not who I am, rather it is someone they need me to be. Not because I would feel vulnerable, but because I would feel insincere and utterly fake.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

leftfield said:


> That is great in theory. I learned to ask questions from interacting with my wife. I used to just try things and that did not go well. Once in a while, I still try it, but it always ends in a bad place. Asking questions is much safer for both of us.
> 
> Like I said; I'm really glad that some people are able to have great sex lives. I wish my experience was more like what you have experienced.


I agree there isn't just one way to do things that fit all relationships. Actually that's why I started this thread, to learn more about the variety in humanity.

Mine's no better than yours, or others, and yours, others aren't better than mine, we're all just a bit different.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

leftfield said:


> That is great in theory. I learned to ask questions from interacting with my wife.


You're not alone. In-the-moment experimentation in our bedroom is seen as one small step above rape. Surprises are most unwelcome. They trigger an immediate fight or flight response.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The role play or doing some things the W has dropped hints on wanting to be treated like pure sex animals, now and then, and want their Hs to use them lustfully and with abandon to control them and treat them like dirty girls, if you willl.


My wife’s only sexual fantasy she shared was something like sex on a deserted beach, which we‘ve already done anyway. Asking ever again would only be received as “pressure” so that ain’t happening. Her responsive desire means I don’t thing there’s anything sexual going on in her head unless and until I start something. But that’s the way RD people are wired I guess.

Back on topic, I would jump at the chance to act upon a dropped hint.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> I don't think of it as vulnerability.
> 
> If my wife asked for this, it would definitely take some time to come to grips with her request that I basically become a self serving sexual asshole.
> 
> ...


Maybe that's a difference. I can jettison all that crap in less than a moment. 

Baggage and life pressures have their time, but no space is taken by them in my mind during sex. Zero. None. Granted I learned to let that crap go if we're fooling around and that's a learned approach. 

A hundred years ago I experimented purposefully to see which worked better, put crap on ignore, or let it have some space, and 100% it's 100% best to put all, and I mean all of it aside, so the encounter is the best.

It's made for way increased frequency, quality of sex, and better relationship overall. When a couple connects without barriers in the moment it's extraordinary. 

That's why we have sex even when we're in a disagreement. The whole thing just works better for us.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> You're not alone. In-the-moment experimentation in our bedroom is seen as one small step above rape. Surprises are most unwelcome. They trigger an immediate fight or flight response.


Oh please. You're projecting or assuming mistreatment. You're way off.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Oh please. You're projecting or assuming mistreatment. You're way off.


How can I be eay off when describing my own bedroom?

Some women don't want you trying new things for which you have not prepared them beforehand.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> I don't think of it as vulnerability.
> 
> If my wife asked for this, it would definitely take some time to come to grips with her request that I basically become a self serving sexual asshole.
> 
> ...


So, that's mutually not you two as a couple's bag or something either would like.

That's certainly, obviously ok. Not everyone likes the same things. So no problems there, so no use throwing a negative problem out that will never happen for you. A good observation.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's why I'm trying to understand why a man would not be able to be that person for her, when she wants hard, wildly mind stretching physical and mentally passionate sex.


Because, frankly, a lot of guys simply aren't into being rough and don't enjoy it at all. 



leftfield said:


> Well as someone who is basically living this right now I will say that it is not as straight forward as you paint it. When my wife tells me to do what I want, I then start asking questions such as:
> What if I want to do item A? Answer: that does nothing for me.
> What about item B? Answer: doesn't interest me.
> What about item C? Answer: no not really.
> ...


This sounds a LOT like she wants you to want what she wants. So, she tells you "do what you want" in hopes what you want will be what she wants....but it's not. And, if she's anything like me, explicitly telling you what she wants and how to go about it ruins the experience for her. For me, if I have to tell a guy how to be dominant he's not dominant, but a submissive doing as instructed.



Cletus said:


> If my wife asked for this, it would definitely take some time to come to grips with her request that I basically become a self serving sexual asshole.


Oh, no, my friend, it's not that simple. You have to, in that circumstance, give dominance and appear to be selfishly using her while making sure she's enjoying it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MJJEAN said:


> Because, frankly, a lot of guys simply aren't into being rough and don't enjoy it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And this is exactly my point. 👍👍👍


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

leftfield said:


> Well as someone who is basically living this right now I will say that it is not as straight forward as you paint it. When my wife tells me to do what I want, I then start asking questions such as:
> What if I want to do item A? Answer: that does nothing for me.
> What about item B? Answer: doesn't interest me.
> What about item C? Answer: no not really.
> ...


But do you have real life examples of when you did do what you wanted and she said no. 
I’m not talking about suggesting something, but actually doing it.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> *This sounds a LOT like she wants you to want what she wants. So, she tells you "do what you want" in hopes what you want will be what she wants....but it's not.* And, if she's anything like me, explicitly telling you what she wants and how to go about it ruins the experience for her. For me, if I have to tell a guy how to be dominant he's not dominant, but a submissive doing as instructed.


Yes, she does want me to be less interested in sex with her. I've given her that option many times and she has refused it ever time.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Maybe that's a difference too; I never now, never have, started asking a woman questions as in how about this, that.
> 
> It takes her mind off her body and shifts her into a verbal thought stage, and even if she wants to try something she may be embarrassed to say it out loud for fear of judgement.
> 
> ...


While this is a great idea (not taking your partner's mind off of the passion), it sounds a little like you are making similar assumptions about sexual interaction that I've heard made with, for example, _"Men ALWAYS want their women to initiate more"_...which sounded great, except it was an ABSOLUTE NO with my STBX...in fact, the surest way I was NOT getting sex was to try and initiate in some way. He HATED it, and it turned him complete OFF to me (along with at least a dozen other things I tried).

What you are describing about women, and how they respond to men sexually, IS NOT TRUE for all women. And I believe there ARE men who have tried to be the same way that gave you sexual success, but the women they were with responded so differently/negatively, that they are hesitant to try your approach again.

My STBX reacted to me (and all his partners, I believe) in a way that 98% of men would NEVER react.

And it always frustrated me (and hurt a little) to hear people talk about what would work with him for sure, when I knew I had already tried it, and it NEVER worked.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> But do you have real life examples of when you did do what you wanted and she said no.
> I’m not talking about suggesting something, but actually doing it.


Yes, as indicated in this statement:
_"How about when I do what I want and the whole thing is stopped dead in its tracks when she says "NO". Then things go to heck from there._ "
and this one:
_"I used to just try things and that did not go well. Once in a while, I still try it, but it always ends in a bad place."_


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

leftfield said:


> Yes, as indicated in this statement:
> _"How about when I do what I want and the whole thing is stopped dead in its tracks when she says "NO". Then things go to heck from there._ "
> and this one:
> _"I used to just try things and that did not go well. Once in a while, I still try it, but it always ends in a bad place."_


I understand what you are saying, and I BELIEVE YOU.


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## SGr (Mar 19, 2015)

Thatguyoverthere744 said:


> It's really hard to say, although I would disagree with the previous reply and think it is quite common. Just a few possible reasons right off the top of my head...
> 
> 1. He's a more reactive than proactive sex partner, meaning he needs to be turned on to act aggressively. Just telling him "Hey, I'm ready! Come use me like a dirty ***" does little to nothing to turn him on. You might try arousing him first then trying to get him to switch to dominant mode.
> 
> ...


This is so true!

It's really easy to throw this question out there in a vacuum with no context, but that's not real life. Most marriages exist within a larger context, with baggage from previous relationships, family of origin issues, and lots of other factors that need to be accounted for. 

A wife might "say" she wants her husband to take control, be dominant, be aggressive, be physical. Fill in your own blank. But when you get down to it the husband has to take all of those relationship factors into consideration when it's time to execute. If mixed messages have ever been sent it's understandable if a husband is gun-shy when he's in the middle of the situation.

And if she is unwilling to have an open conversation about exactly what she wants, then some of the responsibility for how he responds falls on her.

The same goes for if the husband has a preference in the bedroom. Which is why open communication and a willingness to be vulnerable is essential. 

Tapatalk


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Looking back, I realized I was the aggressor in my marriage from the first encounter when we started dating. That got really old, and I hated always having to initiate. It got worse after we married, I was frustrated and tried discussing my needs, but my husband completely shut down on me. 

The first time we went for counseling was after he had an EA. We stopped going eventually, b/c he never did the "homework" and sex just didn't happen, not even for birthdays, he refused oral (giving or receiving). I think he must be very passive and prefers women who take charge, he always wanted me on top when we did, and I prefer my partner to be more dominant. He never wanted to discuss anything and would completely shut me out if I tried, so we never fixed our issues. 

Anyway, I think some people are so hung up on being ashamed of what they like and don't want to talk about it because they're not like "the norm", whatever that is. Thankfully, my bf and I are in tune, even if he is LD than me with the kind of sex we both enjoy, which makes the trade-off well worth it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> While this is a great idea (not taking your partner's mind off of the passion), it sounds a little like you are making similar assumptions about sexual interaction that I've heard made with, for example, _"Men ALWAYS want their women to initiate more"_...which sounded great, except it was an ABSOLUTE NO with my STBX...in fact, the surest way I was NOT getting sex was to try and initiate in some way. He HATED it, and it turned him complete OFF to me (along with at least a dozen other things I tried).
> 
> What you are describing about women, and how they respond to men sexually, IS NOT TRUE for all women. And I believe there ARE men who have tried to be the same way that gave you sexual success, but the women they were with responded so differently/negatively, that they are hesitant to try your approach again.
> 
> ...


That would be frustrating and something I'd never do, say no, but your example does happen, a very real life example. 

One thing's for sure, all men, women, and relationships are a little different. There definitely isn't one size fits all, I'm in agreement with you. Especially if someone says if you do this it will work when you've already tried it.

Some men look for reasons to create barriers to having sex when they mistakenly think it helps them to show the W who's boss, and that's one of the biggest problems in a M, the focus on trying to show each other who's leading the circus. Tragic I say. And it goes both ways.

Men should physically love their women every chance they get. And vice versa. That's my motto.

Because one day as we age, that period may pass.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

@TXTrini , yes, being in tune with each other is the key.

In every post, being in tune, using your best intuition, being fully present, is the focus in EVERY encounter. 

Good communication is at the forefront, part of being in tune. 

Just playing 30 questions when starting a lovemaking encounter, when blood is running high, has always been counter productive in my experience.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

leftfield said:


> Well as someone who is basically living this right now I will say that it is not as straight forward as you paint it. When my wife tells me to do what I want, I then start asking questions such as:
> What if I want to do item A? Answer: that does nothing for me.
> What about item B? Answer: doesn't interest me.
> What about item C? Answer: no not really.
> ...


That sounds horribly frustrating! I feel for you man. It sucks to never get a straight answer.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> Oh, no, my friend, it's not that simple. You have to, in that circumstance, give dominance and appear to be selfishly using her while making sure she's enjoying it.


I did not mean to imply that doing this makes one a self-serving sexual asshole. Only that this is the mental model I would have to overcome.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @TXTrini , yes, being in tune with each other is the key.
> 
> In every post, being in tune, using your best intuition, being fully present, is the focus in EVERY encounter.
> 
> ...


You know, I never really thought that much about it. I was one of those naive dummies who went into a marriage thinking if you loved someone, this stuff would come, especially with time.

You are so right about being fully present during every encounter. When I think about it, we have both fully engaged and present every time, which is why I'm ok with him not being HD. It's much more emotionally satisfying than just "doing it" for the heck of it. 

When we first got together, and even now, there are no inquisitions. He is a very observant, intuitive man, but we also have a lot of banter. When we talk about sex, it's never when we're together when it's a possibility, it's always here and there like any other topic during the week. So when we have the opportunity, it just flows. I'll never be able to settle for anything less after this.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

My wife generally wants to control things but she doesn’t want to initiate and in terms of bringing creativity to the sessions she is open to trying things gradually when I bring them depending on what it is.

Lately I stumbled on a magic combo for her and I have never seen her have as long or crazy O’s. The downside is she now wants that every single time; but on the plus side she’s getting rekt and it’s good enough for me so win win.

My one big wish is that I could get her to regularly wear lingerie for me. I have tried a bunch of setups to try and get it to go but generally I strike out 8/10 times. Her thinking is maybe not completely wrong which is she already needs to ward me off with a frying pan and I’m going to just rip it off anyway and all I can say is that it isn’t a rational thing.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Cletus said:


> I don't think of it as vulnerability.
> 
> If my wife asked for this, it would definitely take some time to come to grips with her request that I basically become a self serving sexual asshole.
> 
> ...


I am sure this is true too, but I think some guys suffer from a lot of insecurity and don't want to go out of his comfort zone, or more likely afraid they might not be good.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife generally wants to control things but she doesn’t want to initiate and in terms of bringing creativity to the sessions she is open to trying things gradually when I bring them depending on what it is.
> 
> Lately I stumbled on a magic combo for her and I have never seen her have as long or crazy O’s. The downside is she now wants that every single time; but on the plus side she’s getting rekt and it’s good enough for me so win win.
> 
> My one big wish is that I could get her to regularly wear lingerie for me. I have tried a bunch of setups to try and get it to go but generally I strike out 8/10 times. Her thinking is maybe not completely wrong which is she already needs to ward me off with a frying pan and I’m going to just rip it off anyway and all I can say is that it isn’t a rational thing.


That's awesome ccpowerslave, I'm happy for you! 

I'm also hesitant to wear lingerie (though I try to wear pretty undies every time I'm around my bf). Have you bought things you'd like to see your wife in? Not just talked about it or asked her to buy some. I am very body-conscious (not enough to hide under covers or in darkness), but for some reason, I feel really self-conscious to wear lingerie.

My bf bought something I NEVER would buy for myself and it changed my view on how I presented to him. I've only worn lingerie a few times in the 15 months we've been together. I bought a few items geared towards working up the courage to wear what he got me. 

Maybe she feels self-conscious too? I've always been the kind of woman to stay under the radar and not advertise too much. From how you've described DW, she sounds a bit intimidated by wanting to own her desire to control and needs a little help to put a toe outside her comfort zone.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> That's awesome ccpowerslave, I'm happy for you!
> 
> I'm also hesitant to wear lingerie (though I try to wear pretty undies every time I'm around my bf). Have you bought things you'd like to see your wife in? Not just talked about it or asked her to buy some. I am very body-conscious (not enough to hide under covers or in darkness), but for some reason, I feel really self-conscious to wear lingerie.
> 
> ...


Yeah so first off I buy her everything.

She likes cotton so the most successful I have been is with cotton. So if I get her stuff she would normally wear anyway but I like better she will sometimes wear it. Matching bra and panties though she doesn’t do it especially during work from home she’ll go with a sports bra.

I have gone low end (Victoria’s), medium end (Thistle and Spire, Savage X) and higher end (Honey Birdette). I have an idea of what she might wear based on comfort so I stay in that zone.

If she seems particularly frisky sometimes I can convert by sending her off to pick something since I like all of it because I bought it.

Another wrinkle is I can’t get her to use gift certificates. So the old, “You’re picking wrong dummy!” doesn’t work because if I get her the certificates she’ll lose them or not use them. I can’t even get her to replace stuff she actually needs from stores she likes that way so for lingerie it ain’t happening.

I am not a quitter though, somehow I will figure it out.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Double post because phones?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah so first off I buy her everything.
> 
> She likes cotton so the most successful I have been is with cotton. So if I get her stuff she would normally wear anyway but I like better she will sometimes wear it. Matching bra and panties though she doesn’t do it especially during work from home she’ll go with a sports bra.
> 
> ...


Hmm, well you're more than doing your due diligence so it's definitely her thing. Man, I'm learning about lingerie brands from you to check out!  

How is she built and how does she feel about her body? I can't imagine wearing a sports bra except working out, it's too confining, but I'm built small. Maybe she feels really self-conscious, I certainly do. Even when I was in the best shape of my life in my early 20's, I was never the type to wear bikinis out. 

I really don't know what to tell you, man, you sound very supportive and quite frankly, I wish I could have had that kind of support and desire in my marriage. Honestly, you might need to get her to spill the beans.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Maybe that's a difference too; I never now, never have, started asking a woman questions as in how about this, that.
> 
> It takes her mind off her body and shifts her into a verbal thought stage, and even if she wants to try something she may be embarrassed to say it out loud for fear of judgement.
> 
> ...


I always found you can ask questions at a different time and even make that a part of the flirting.

Most of us are older here and I have been married a long time and I didn't have a large amount of partners, but one thing I remember when I was younger a lot of girls didn't know exactly what they liked.

I also not adverse to move to try something and then pause quickly saying - "you alright?" at the beginning. I think you can gauge but the enthusiasm of the response. You also don't have to have a negotiation, if she says no move on. I mean it also doesn't have to be, well now I am going to do this or may I do this, it can be, move towards it as a part of foreplay, and say just a little? OK? But you have to have established that you guys are on that mission to try stuff, and you don't start at 11. And you have to be sensitive that she may say no and that is no reflection on you.

Most of this is about if you are thinking - this is going to make me feel good or this is something that might be fun for both of us to do together. Guys who have the attitude - this is going to make me feel good telegraph that, and that is selfish. Guys who want their partners to have fun are going to get more trust, that are also more apt to stop if she is not enjoying it, which make her fell safe and more willing to try something different.

Like I always say though all of this and marriage in general requires you taking the time to really know your spouse.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Hmm, well you're more than doing your due diligence so it's definitely her thing. Man, I'm learning about lingerie brands from you to check out!
> 
> How is she built and how does she feel about her body? I can't imagine wearing a sports bra except working out, it's too confining, but I'm built small. Maybe she feels really self-conscious, I certainly do. Even when I was in the best shape of my life in my early 20's, I was never the type to wear bikinis out.
> 
> I really don't know what to tell you, man, you sound very supportive and quite frankly, I wish I could have had that kind of support and desire in my marriage. Honestly, you might need to get her to spill the beans.


If you can swing it the Honey Birdette stuff is super nice. Maybe get your BF clued in on it provided he can pick appropriately in my mind you can’t go wrong with the quality and the look. I just threw a couple of new pieces on top of her pile in a stealth operation earlier today.

I think she is pretty confident at least in the house. She walks around naked in the morning all the time which drives me nuts because she definitely has no desire in the morning so I try and actively avoid any shows at that time because I normally can’t take a cold shower until after I work out.

Outside she used to wear dresses a lot when we first started dating and when we were just married and now she doesn’t. So maybe there is something there.

One thing she will wear 100% is if I get her comfy cotton PJs. Even those depending on the brand I have to avoid in the morning because they’re too good.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> If you can swing it the Honey Birdette stuff is super nice. Maybe get your BF clued in on it provided he can pick appropriately in my mind you can’t go wrong with the quality and the look. I just threw a couple of new pieces on top of her pile in a stealth operation earlier today.
> 
> I think she is pretty confident at least in the house. She walks around naked in the morning all the time which drives me nuts because she definitely has no desire in the morning so I try and actively avoid any shows at that time because I normally can’t take a cold shower until after I work out.
> 
> ...


I took a peek, but it's still rather "ladylike" for his tastes 😳. I also don't like unnatural fibers and most lingerie is made from poly, it's hard to find cotton and silk ones. By the time I get all gussied up in stuff, I'm hot and uncomfortable and want to rip it off , so it's not the least bit sexy for me.

How about some sexy 100% silk nightie/teddies to start instead of PJs? It's fairly covered, but they're still pretty with the lace. And sort of go scantier from there?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I took a peek, but it's still rather "ladylike" for his tastes 😳. I also don't like unnatural fibers and most lingerie is made from poly, it's hard to find cotton and silk ones. By the time I get all gussied up in stuff, I'm hot and uncomfortable and want to rip it off , so it's not the least bit sexy for me.
> 
> How about some sexy 100% silk nightie/teddies to start instead of PJs? It's fairly covered, but they're still pretty with the lace. And sort of go scantier from there?


Wow you got a wild one there.

My wife doesn’t like silk but she does like the super soft Victoria’s Secret fabric they have. The last strappy nightie thing I got her to wear came from there. I asked her to bring something on a trip and that’s what she grabbed.

When we we were dating and for the first couple years after being married she wore stuff like that all the time.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> While this is a great idea (not taking your partner's mind off of the passion), it sounds a little like you are making similar assumptions about sexual interaction that I've heard made with, for example, _"Men ALWAYS want their women to initiate more"_...which sounded great, except it was an ABSOLUTE NO with my STBX...in fact, the surest way I was NOT getting sex was to try and initiate in some way. He HATED it, and it turned him complete OFF to me (along with at least a dozen other things I tried).
> 
> What you are describing about women, and how they respond to men sexually, IS NOT TRUE for all women. And I believe there ARE men who have tried to be the same way that gave you sexual success, but the women they were with responded so differently/negatively, that they are hesitant to try your approach again.
> 
> ...


It's almost as if you have to communicate and learn each other.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Wow you got a wild one there.
> 
> My wife doesn’t like silk but she does like the super soft Victoria’s Secret fabric they have. The last strappy nightie thing I got her to wear came from there. I asked her to bring something on a trip and that’s what she grabbed.
> 
> When we we were dating and for the first couple years after being married she wore stuff like that all the time.


 Boy, you have no idea, it's always the quiet ones. I sure hope it stays that way.

Do you mean modal? It's comfy for sure, now they have some sexier ones with more lace and stuff I've seen from other brands. Ooh I have an idea (unless you've already tried it). Why don't you buy some mangerie and wear it for her?

If it's a self-conscious/embarrassment thing, your willingness to put yourself out there might encourage her! I remember falling onto the bed in fits after my bf dropped his pants and there was a sort of "snuggie snout" thing going on. I felt way better about making myself vulnerable using lingerie after that. 

Sorry to T/J Ragnar, but thank you for bringing this topic up. It's very educational to lesser experienced folk, like myself who are still are still in discovery mode.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Why don't you buy some mangerie and wear it for her?


Yep I have some from a couple different places and not gonna lie I just wear it sometimes anyway. She claims it does nothing for her but I got it for the reason you suggested and decided I like it from time to time.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> It's almost as if you have to communicate and learn each other.


EXACTLY...and be open and generous with eachother sexually (and all other ways, too).

The problem comes when you are with a partner who refuses to be so, and doesn't think communicating or caring about you has any relevance at all. There really are NO options with someone like that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> EXACTLY...and be open and generous with eachother sexually (and all other ways, too).
> 
> The problem comes when you are with a partner who refuses to be so, and doesn't think communicating or caring about you has any relevance at all. There really are NO options with someone like that.


I don't think many men get this but I think for most women you need to create an emotional safe space for her to be sexual appealing to her and have her be open. Most of that happens before you get into the bed room.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What I mean is, from what I've read, some Hs have internal conflicts when providing some boundary stretching sex acts in some of their sexual encounters with Ws.
> 
> The role play or doing some things the W has dropped hints on wanting to be treated like pure sex animals, now and then, and want their Hs to use them lustfully and with abandon to control them and treat them like dirty girls, if you willl.
> 
> ...


Correct me if you feel I am missing the point (it does happen... rarely... but it does haha).

I can't help but feel this could kind of corner the husband into a potential no-win situation if the wife has dropped 'hints'. Why is the wife not out-right saying she's into this or that style? I don't mean a play-by-play of what needs to occur but obviously there's some kind of sexual narrative she wants played out. Would it not be beneficial to be more direct in what turns her on? Yes, there is paying attention in the moment, yet outside of this if there's 'hints' how well are those hints executed and then received for him to know what she's into if this is something that has not been expressed (verbally or physically) before? And then, to understand whether this is something he'd be into as well, or perhaps elements he'd be down with? So many questions in one post! If the wife is quite sexually reserved about expressing herself but then states, 'Do what you want to/with me' - which she might feel is a bold expression - that's such an open category and is really communicating (as another has suggested), 'Do what you want with me - but in the way that I want you to'. And where's the focus of it being shared fun/turn-on? Otherwise, what if he really wants to mush their bodies with cake and she's like 'WTH? That's not what I meant!' (@TXTrini reference to Secret Diaries of a Call Girl).

Some other really good points made in the thread about whether he's into taking that 'controlling' role and which has a whole spectrum of what it could mean for both him and her separately. As well as other good points about trust, the dynamic between them etc.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Skipping over the madonna-wh0#e complex, when it's made clear by the W or SO, why do some men shrink back from being able to take the lead after clear hints are told to them?


Yeah, I missed the point. Ah well, I'll keep my other post there nonetheless. And order myself some new reading glasses.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Boy, you have no idea, it's always the quiet ones. I sure hope it stays that way.
> 
> Do you mean modal? It's comfy for sure, now they have some sexier ones with more lace and stuff I've seen from other brands. Ooh I have an idea (unless you've already tried it). Why don't you buy some mangerie and wear it for her?
> 
> ...


No worries, my pleasure. 

If fact you're highlighting why I brought it up, to learn more for myself and gain knowledge of what opinions others have on the subject and where each may be on their own journeys.

I don't have any issues on this topic but realizing I don't know everything about everything know I could learn from others on this or tangential topics I haven't yet considered!!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> EXACTLY...and be open and generous with eachother sexually (and all other ways, too).
> 
> The problem comes when you are with a partner who refuses to be so, and doesn't think communicating or caring about you has any relevance at all. There really are NO options with someone like that.


You mirror my thoughts about being open and generous with an SO.

Learning about each other with continuous practice is the best!!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I always found you can ask questions at a different time and even make that a part of the flirting.
> 
> Most of us are older here and I have been married a long time and I didn't have a large amount of partners, but one thing I remember when I was younger a lot of girls didn't know exactly what they liked.
> 
> ...


Most assuredly. 

This morning my DW had one of her engraved jewelry boxes open ( I had it made with a silver medallion engraved inside expressing love and appreciation on it for a 15 year anniversary gift) and I paused to read it again.

Now, after 36 yrs of marriage, everything still applies and we're even so much closer.

Good times.

😉 it was also good times last night, and before work this morning. Just sayin.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> That's awesome ccpowerslave, I'm happy for you!
> 
> I'm also hesitant to wear lingerie (though I try to wear pretty undies every time I'm around my bf). Have you bought things you'd like to see your wife in? Not just talked about it or asked her to buy some. I am very body-conscious (not enough to hide under covers or in darkness), but for some reason, I feel really self-conscious to wear lingerie.
> 
> ...


I admit I walk around the house nekkid a lot just so she will too when she wants.

One thing I always do is have the bedside lamps on, because I like to see her and what's going on, and have made sure she knows that's the reason we always have some lights on when fooling around. 

And I never close my eyes when fooling around for the same. I like to see her, be there with her. She sometimes giggles at that, she knows I'm watching and it seems to give her a boost when she checks to see if I'm seeing what she's doing, gives an extra smile and wiggle.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No worries, my pleasure.
> 
> If fact you're highlighting why I brought it up, to learn more for myself and gain knowledge of what opinions others have on the subject and where each may be on their own journeys.
> 
> I don't have any issues on this topic but realizing I don't know everything about everything know I could learn from others on this or tangential topics I haven't yet considered!!


I'm really glad for these conversations, I don't really have anyone to have them with. Thank you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Tried a sneaky new plan. 

Stuck some Honey Birdette I picked up recently in her intimates drawer on Monday. We just ate lunch and she mentioned finding, “interesting additions” to her drawer and mentioned one piece in particular.

Trying not to get my hopes up...


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