# Wife doesn't trust me after genuine mistake



## PCarlin (Oct 8, 2013)

This is my first time posting on a forum like this, but I just do not know where else to turn to for some advice.

A bit of background first I feel would be helpful. My wife and I have been married for four years. Initially, before we were married and for about the first year of marriage we had a great sex life. Over the last few years this has dramatically waned however, so much so that in the last five months we have had sex only once. I am a fairly patient guy, but I do have a high sex drive, so this has been difficult for me to adjust to. My wife has a few personal issues, such as anxiety and stress, and earlier this year we underwent a round of IVF which was of course extremely difficult for her, both emotionally and physically. 

Last night we had gone to bed, and for the first time in ages I felt that I was going to get lucky. However, she fell asleep before I could initiate anything (I ALWAYS have to initiate sex), so I decided to sleep as well. In the night, I woke up a little and thought that she was moving closer to me whilst we were spooning. I thought that this was her initiating sex with me, so I held her tighter to me and moved my hands closer to her breasts. She moved closer to me again, and I took this as a sign to keep going. I pulled her top up to expose her breasts and fondled them for about a minute. 

Suddenly, she startled awake and asked what I was doing. It turns out that she was asleep the whole time, and (completely justifiably) was deeply upset at what I was doing.

This was a genuine mistake and I am honestly mortified that she was sleeping whilst I did that to her. If I had any inclination that she was sleeping, I never would have done anything to her. She is now convinced though that I must be doing this every night and now states that she doesn’t think that she can trust me any more. The words ‘assault’ and ‘molested’ have been used more than once. I have tried to explain to her that I had just made a terrible mistake and that I am deeply sorry for the distress I have caused her, but she is convinced that there must be more to this.

How can I convince her that this was just an error by me and not part of some larger issue?


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## LoveBeingFemale (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm too new here to be giving much advice on marital issues, but I'm sorry, something seems off here. My husband does this all the time to me, and I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with it--in fact, I rather enjoy it (other than I'm tired because it's in the wee hours of the morning). You are married for goodness sake--you're allowed to touch your spouse in bed (breasts included) while they are sleeping.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Just let her cool off for a while, and then talk to her about it.

Still, if a woman reacted like that despite my honest apology and made such a big deal about it personally I would have just gone "WTF?! Pffft, get over yourself woman!" but that's just me. Meh


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

You can't make her trust you. She has to do that on her own. And if her trust is broken over this, either there is something else going on (other severe trust issues in the marriage that you have not told us about) or it was razor-thin to begin with. Her reaction is over the top; spouses have a reasonable expectation of access to each other's bodies.

What has she said about this in the past? Have you groped her before when she's awake and she has been very cold about it? Or has she been receptive? If she's never reacted negatively to you touching her breasts and never told you otherwise, then her expectation that you would know she'd feel assaulted is ridiculous.

"Assault" ... "molestation" ... those are the words used by someone who has had it happen before. Does she have some unresolved trauma from her past? Could your action have triggered her? If so, her reaction is understandable - in the short term. If she carries on for a long time, and insists that you are a monster, then I would call her trauma unresolved, and in need of therapy. Again, you can't make her do anything but she needs to deal with it in more a healthy way, and you DO have a choice what you will endure in the marriage. Someone smarter on the subject than me can give you better advice here.

There is a slim chance she is just using this excuse as an event to throw up another wall between you and have a convenient, shameful method to deny you sex. This is unlikely but stranger things have happened.

Speaking of sex, why has it slowed? You said it has been five months and I assume from your post that you are giving her space based on her anxiety/stress medications and treatments. What does she say when you bring up the subject? Does she agree and recognize that it has inhibited bonding? Does she get mad you bring it up? Does she even think it is an issue between you?

You said the sex has bottomed out but you are doing IVF. That really should stop. Do not have children until the sex issue is sorted out to your mutual satisfaction. If you think sex will come easier once kids are on the scene, think again. And if the worst should happen, no kids will make it easier to separate.

You need to take a step back yourself. You have apologized, I assume sincerely. If not done already, you need to get to her to articulate what physical contact she finds acceptable. Once you know the baseline, you can go from there.

Good luck.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

Well I think she is just trying to find some new reason to be mean to you.

You could lie to her that she started it by pulling your piece first.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

im_tam said:


> You could lie to her that she started it by pulling your piece first.


Ha! :smthumbup:


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

PCarlin said:


> A bit of background first I feel would be helpful. My wife and I have been married for four years. Initially, before we were married and for about the first year of marriage we had a great sex life. Over the last few years this has dramatically waned however, so much so that in the last five months we have had sex only once.


The most likely explanation for this is that your wife isn't sexually attracted to you. This may be due to a hormonal imbalance, or her having an affair, or you changing some behaviors. But that's probably it.



> My wife has a few personal issues, such as anxiety and stress, and earlier this year we underwent a round of IVF which was of course extremely difficult for her, both emotionally and physically.


Bringing kids into a sexless marriage is extremely foolish. It is unlikely that you will be able to continue living a celibate life for the next 20+ years. Therefore, you will divorce your wife over a lack of sex. Your kids will be shuttled back and forth between you and your wife for years while your wife poisons their minds against you by telling them how you abandoned the family over something so trivial as sex.

Why not skip the middle man, divorce your wife now, marry a woman who is attracted to you, and have kids with her? It will be much cheaper.



> Suddenly, she startled awake and asked what I was doing. It turns out that she was asleep the whole time, and (completely justifiably) was deeply upset at what I was doing.


She was completely justified in being deeply upset at you fondling her? Wrong. She would be completely justified to be deeply upset at a random stranger, or a coworker, fondling her. You are her husband. She took a vow to have an exclusive, sexual relationship with you for the rest of your lives. You should have more access to her body than her coworkers, friends, or random strangers.



> This was a genuine mistake and I am honestly mortified that she was sleeping whilst I did that to her.


Wrong reaction. A better reaction would be amusement.



> If I had any inclination that she was sleeping, I never would have done anything to her. She is now convinced though that I must be doing this every night and now states that she doesn’t think that she can trust me any more.


That's just an excuse. The fact is that she really, REALLY doesn't want to have sex with you. This "mistake" by you is now a perfect opportunity for her to withdraw even more. Hell, it may be years before she gives you access to her body again. It looks like the only way your sperm will get inside your wife will be through a test tube. Sorry.



> The words ‘assault’ and ‘molested’ have been used more than once. I have tried to explain to her that I had just made a terrible mistake and that I am deeply sorry for the distress I have caused her, but she is convinced that there must be more to this.


That is unacceptable. What you should do is call her bluff. During business hours, drive your wife to the local police station so that she can file a police report. Keep a straight face. Tell her that you want to support her in her decision to try to have you imprisoned for touching her breasts during the night. She will probably balk because she's just using her mock outrage to deny you sex. Don't allow her to do this. If she thinks you committed a crime, then report it. Otherwise, shut up. Choose one.

I'm guessing she will drop the issue once you force it.

In the future, you need to back away from your wife. She doesn't want to be your wife. She doesn't view you as her husband. She views you as her butler.

Go to Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. and read up.

Good luck.


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

Woman here. Woman who admittedly does not like being woken from sleep for sex. I must say that your wife is being controlling and completely ridiculous. You sound like an extremely nice, understanding guy. Your marital dynamic HAS to change or you are in for a lifetime of unhappiness and frustration.


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## Baseballmom6 (Aug 15, 2012)

Wow she feels you molested her? You as her husband have the right (IMO) to touch her just about anytime you want unless she has asked for some boundaries and only for a good reason. I love it when my man wakes me up in the middle of the night for sex. I am usually well rested and have a clear mind. Something more is going on here and you should get to the bottom of it. But in the meantime stop apologizing for touching your wife!


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

This is something with her, not with you, so don't feel bad about it. But maybe the two of you need to talk about what happened in counselling.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You did nothing wrong, you though she was responding and she was actually, just not consciously.

Her reaction is out of line, you weren't forcing yourself on her, you were responding back to her response.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You did nothing wrong. Your wife is overreacting.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sex once in five months. You touch her in her sleep and she feels violated. Obviously there is a huge problem where she does not want to have sex with you. This seems beyond attraction. 

There seems to be some much bigger issue. Has she been raped? Is she having an affair? Was she the victim of abuse in the past?

Do not have children with this woman unless this is resolved.

And, you did nothing wrong. There is some reason she does not want to have sex with you. She is not wanting intimacy.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Reacting with amusement would have been about the worst thing you could have done. Anytime someone is offended about sex you have to take them seriously. The question was asked about being molested in the past is really good . Is there anything else that you haven't told us about your sexual interactions with her. Is there any porn use that she's upset with. Has she felt pressured for sex recently 

My husband and I have both initiated when the other was asleep. Unless I am dog tired I like it. But if your wife feels only conscious consent is appropriate that's the way it is. 

Maybe skip trying to have a baby until you get closer to one another. I have seen cares where the stress of in-back pushed the marriage to the brink and while the baby was initially a blessing to the father, the mom bonds to the baby and completely marginalizes the father. 

She will get upset if you suggest counseling before working toward a baby but if you continue to stress that it is both your responsibility to ensure a strong marriage so you can provide stability and love for the child without the stress of parents who are distant and resentful. Don't bring up this situation as an example. I am sure there are others you can use. 

This is a touch subject. She will be emotional and afraid you are backing out of wanting a baby. If that isn't actually the case, reassure her. You can get some books about how strong marriages are the cornerstone to healthy children. Check Out Focus on the Family to see what you can turn up. 

Good luck. But I agree this is probably more than a sex problem. Just don't make it so much her problem that she feels abandoned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Convection said:


> "Assault" ... "molestation" ... those are the words used by someone who has had it happen before. Does she have some unresolved trauma from her past? Could your action have triggered her? If so, her reaction is understandable - in the short term. If she carries on for a long time, and insists that you are a monster, then I would call her trauma unresolved, and in need of therapy.


:iagree:

There is something very off kilter with her response, especially using those kinds of words. She either has some sex abuse or assault in her past, or she has a very unhealthy attitude about sex for some other reason.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Definitely put off having kids for now. Your marriage is not healthy. Whatever the reasons are, it is messed up. Kids will multiply the misery for both of you.

I suggest you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. Also visit the forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin . 

If you or she is Christian, look up 1 Corinthians 7 . There is an analysis over at www.themarriagebed.com plus many other websites. Though I don't agree with the extreme interpretation of 1Cor7, I agree with the basic concept that we have committed "To Have and To Hold" in our marriage vows, which specifically means we pledge sex with our spouse. We are obligated to work hard at fixing our own issues in order to live up to our marriage vows.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

PCarlin said:


> Suddenly, she startled awake and asked what I was doing. It turns out that she was asleep the whole time, and (completely justifiably) was deeply upset at what I was doing.


Mildly upset at being woken from a sound sleep is one thing. Deeply upset to the point of tossing about words like 'assaulted' and 'molested?' Sorry, that is pure theatrics.

What you described would be a source of humor in a healthy relationship. 




PCarlin said:


> How can I convince her that this was just an error by me and not part of some larger issue?


It is part of a larger issue and almost certainly tied to the demise of sex in your marriage. I trust you can see how this will be used to rationalize it in future?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Tell you what to do because the idea being accused of rape or molesting her would piss me off to no end.

How many bedrooms in your home? If you have two, hand her a pillow and blankets and tell her to sleep in another room or the couch if you don't have a spare room. Tell her that when she wants to act life a wife and have normal relations with you, less the insults then she can come back to your bed. 

To make a comment like that is unacceptable and now that she doesn't trust you, give her the full treatment and let her know that she might not trust you but you have lost all respect for her. Keep it that way and don't fall for the pity sex ploy. Either she wants to have sex with you or she doesn't but do not put up with those accusations. That's just uncalled for and a terrible thing to say to you.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

clipclop2 said:


> Reacting with amusement would have been about the worst thing you could have done. Anytime someone is offended about sex you have to take them seriously.


Come on. The worst thing to do is to buy into the wife's frame that her husband acted shamefully.

Even if there is a good reason for the wife having unhealthy attitudes about sex, childhood abuse, for example, the wife has a responsibility to recognize her neuroses as unhealthy and not to insist that the world bend to her unreasonable whims.



> But if your wife feels only conscious consent is appropriate that's the way it is.


Sure. And there's nothing wrong with that. Unless his wife insists that a crime has taken place. Then it becomes wrong.



> This is a touch subject. She will be emotional and afraid you are backing out of wanting a baby. If that isn't actually the case, reassure her.


The LAST thing the OP should do is reassure his wife that the fact that she is a bullying harridan won't put him off his desire to have a family with her. The BEST thing he could do is communicate that he expects her to act like a reasonable wife in a sexual marriage. And that, if she refuses to act as such, she will find herself without children and without a husband.



> Good luck. But I agree this is probably more than a sex problem. Just don't make it so much her problem that she feels abandoned.


Again, wow. A wife who insists that her husband touching her breasts is a criminal act isn't the one with the problem? I disagree. I think the problem is primarily, and perhaps entirely, the wife's. She needs to own it. There is absolutely nothing the OP can do to take ownership of her problem and fix it for her. Any attempt to do so will only increase the unreasonable sense of entitlement his wife already appears to have.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MissFroggie said:


> I've a history of being abused as a child and raped as an adult. I have also been raped within a relationship. What you did was absolutely FINE! Her reaction is disgusting and I find it insulting to belittle real abuse by accusing you like this. You should feel no guilt whatsoever. She is absolutely using it as an excuse to push you away in the future too. How do you know she wasn't actually awake and then pretended to wake up and 'feel violated'? I've woken up to discover myself in the middle of full sex but I didn't see that as abusive. If you can't touch her why is she in your bed? Kick her out onto the sofa and tell her she can stay there until she decides to be a wife and stops accusing you of things she knows you didn't do. I have no respect for her at all. I feel disgusted.


I have to agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Hey.

This post struck me as interesting. I've been with my wife 25 years and something similar happend once. Long time ago. Very similar.

Middle of the night. spooning... things start happening... and boom - she pulls away like I was holding blowtorch to her - and obviously acting like I had violated her somehow. 'what are you doing?!'. She was clearly not awake, I see. I dont know if I was more surprised or more horrified.

I *think* we were living together at that time - not married yet. I cant even remember if we had a talk about it or anything but seems to me - no we didnt and that it was just something that happened when she was in that place between sleep and wakefullness and got freaked out. It was not and did not become an issue.

Years later - I did find out she had a rather unpleasant encounter in college - we didnt talk about it too much but she hinted that some guy forced her at least into a blowjob she didnt want to give.. I dont know how far it went - an we never really talked through that - so I just let her give me what she wanted and never brought it up again after listening. It was obviously traumatic for her.

I dont know if the 2 event are related. Could easily be.

Nothing like that has ever happened since.. and that includes many - many - middle of the night encounters when one or the other is sleeping. She will wake me up to get some if she needs it and I do the same. We sleep like spoons every night. We have very deep trust at this point I suppose obviously.

I dont really have a point I guess. I think there might be something there about abuse or a bad experience and part of it might simply be surprise and getting caught in between that sleeping and wakefulness state where you dont know what is going on and then its like WTF. Could also be that that to-the-bone level of trust waivered for a moment or something. Her continuing to hold this up as a problem is concerning.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

MissFroggie said:


> Her reaction is disgusting and I find it insulting to belittle real abuse by accusing you like this. .


I disagree. Who says this is commentary regarding 'real abuse' or not? You dont know her history, and neither do I. This isnt about you.



MissFroggie said:


> You should feel no guilt whatsoever. She is absolutely using it as an excuse to push you away in the future too. How do you know she wasn't actually awake and then pretended to wake up and 'feel violated'? I've woken up to discover myself in the middle of full sex but I didn't see that as abusive..


So - you are certain she was simply faking or being a drama queen? Im not buying it. Your assertion that she might be faking is pure speculation. BS.



MissFroggie said:


> If you can't touch her why is she in your bed? Kick her out onto the sofa and tell her she can stay there until she decides to be a wife and stops accusing you of things she knows you didn't do. I have no respect for her at all. I feel disgusted.


I feel like you are overreacting - and not by only a little.

One thing that is concerning - besides her overreaction - is that this corresponds (post hoc) with a 'dramatic waning' of their sex lives. So who knows what else is going on.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I love when I wake up to my husband groping me.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I find your W's reaction rather odd... Personally, I would find nothing wrong waking up to my SO fondling me. In fact, I'd find it pretty normal.:scratchhead:

I can only think that the IVF treatment is messing with your W's hormones (which isn't unusual, I believe) and causing her to have a complete lack of desire for sex.


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## perfectstranger (Aug 14, 2010)

In general, I appreciate when my husband wakes me up with foreplay. I'm usually more relaxed and not so much in my own head.
That said, there have been a few times when it was worth his life to wake me up for sex. I've been irritated to the point of being irrational because it seems so totally out of the realm of good sense (which he usually has in abundance).
When I was trying to start a new business, I was doing blue-collar, physical labor from 4 a.m. until 1 p.m. or later. I would go back in the evenings around five p.m. to close everything up and wait on him to be finished with his job. That was around 11:30 at night. Middle of the day naps are not my thing and I like eight hours of sleep. 
This was a 60-day period with an end in sight. 
Besides having every cent we could scrape together tied up in the business and living within a whisper of being broke, I was physically exhausted to the point of tears almost every day. On top of everything else, my hands were so rough and raw I couldn't stand the feel of anything: my own clothes when I got dressed, the sheets when I tried to sleep, or my cracked, dry fingers scraping across his skin. (And yes, I was living in gloves full of lotion whenever I could. Also not sexy.)
He can fall asleep anywhere, got midday naps and is cheerful on six hours of sleep. Actually, he's pretty much always cheerful.
I can totally see myself calling him all kinds of hideous things if he had tried just one more time to wake me up "early." That 3 a.m. alarm came soon enough for those two months. And to the poster that suggested driving the wife to the police station to press charges, I might just have taken him up on that! 
Unfortunately, he responds to stress by wanting more sex. I responded to stress by screaming like a harpy whenever he woke me up. (But we did catch up if I got an afternoon off and we probably threw one in about one other day a week.)
There was also an incident about not waking me up for his morning go-round if the last conversation we had before I fell asleep was whether or not I needed to go the emergency room for this freak flu.
And, if I'm in a rush to be somewhere early in the morning, I'm a lot more likely to respond to a cup of coffee and a bagel pushed at me from a safe distance. If I'm stressed about running out of time to get out the door, I'm not enjoying sex. If he's reserved and considerate, I'm open to quickie in the shower or a raincheck. 
Probably none of these were the case with the OP. But I pride myself on being reasonable and open to negotiation. There have still been a few times with my dear, sweet, _almost _always considerate husband where I have been genuinely close to nuclear. Just thought I'd throw it in there on the off chance that there isn't anything dire wrong with the marriage, but maybe they're simply going through a genuinely stressful period.


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## someone90 (May 31, 2013)

Sounds like there are some underlying problems between you two and of course her mental health. My wife loves it when I touch her while she's sleeping and if I wake her up for sex. The same should be happening for you two especially in the early years of marriage.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Do you act affectionately, hug , kiss and complement her in your everyday ritual?

I dunno the way I see it a wife should take it as a complement that her husband want to touch her ...

'Baby I just can't keep my hands off you'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

6301 and PHT, I take it that the two of you view sex as being all about power and you resent women because they can say no and that is that. 

If either of you responded in the way you suggest and there is something deeper going on you have just lost your wife. This incident would never be forgotten. It would remain in the back of her mind as further proof that she can't trust you. 

This is a very sensitive subject where chest beating isn't appropriate. If either of you have personal experience that says otherwise I would be interested in hearing how it worked out and how much grief and anguish and time of took for a positive outcome to be achieved. 

Do I think she over reacted? Yes. But of she truly felt that way dismissing it on the spot would hurt her more than you can imagine. It requires sensitivity. While I would express displeasure at the strong language I would see it as being an issue that she feels strongly about and try to understand why. I would apologize.taking her words so personally misses the point. Something big is going oyyn here. If she felt molested and the only response she got was a selfish one, it certainly won't make their sex life better. 

I think this deserves a long talk and if that is to difficult, a hand-written note to ask questions and express concern for her strong reaction. What does it mean? In retrospect does she still feel that way? Does she view him as a pervert only interested in himself and sex? Clearly it would hurt him if this is the case. Expressing sadness about it would be a lot more welcomed than expressing anger and being all self defensive. 

Anger and the like suggest a feeling of entitlement and a disregard for her. It reinforces her perception and in fact says that he doesn't believe her. 
You guys really miss the mark here. 

This is a pretty big problem if she doesn't calm down and tell him she knows she over reacted. And if he avoids bringing it up in a calm and concerned way the problem well fester. 

If she apologize then it was a blip on the radar. If she doesn't it is a sign that their marriage is in trouble. A discussion about expectations in marriage as well as concern about what bringing a baby into the picture is in order. Counseling with someone who has experience with sexual issues but does not necessarily specialize in them would be worthwhile exploring. 

I am a woman that loves sex. I am not a gate keeper of into using sex for control of power. I have been turned down by my H as is his right. I have turned him down as well. He has been defensive letting me know he was not in the mood. I found that very odd. If I had gotten angry in return if would have been a row instead of me telling him I knew he was tired and if was ok. I was hurt that he didn't think I would understand which to this day confuses me. But t hat is the way he felt at the time 

My situation is no where near the OP's. But it tells you that men can get defensive and have strange reactions to sex as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

PCarlin,

I'm going to tell you straight up, you're the one being abused. 

I can tell by the way you wrote your post that you have been shamed by your wife to think that normal, healthy sexual attraction and desire is wrong. 

Not just in this isolated occurrence but over the course of your married relationship. 

Don't buy it for a minute. 

Take it from me, you don't want to be stuck in a relationship like this.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> PCarlin,
> 
> I'm going to tell you straight up, you're the one being abused.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

PCarlin said:


> Last night we had gone to bed, and for the first time in ages I felt that I was going to get lucky. However, she fell asleep before I could initiate anything (I ALWAYS have to initiate sex), so I decided to sleep as well. In the night, I woke up a little and thought that she was moving closer to me whilst we were spooning. I thought that this was her initiating sex with me, so I held her tighter to me and moved my hands closer to her breasts. She moved closer to me again, and I took this as a sign to keep going. I pulled her top up to expose her breasts and fondled them for about a minute.
> 
> Suddenly, she startled awake and asked what I was doing. It turns out that she was asleep the whole time, and (completely justifiably) was deeply upset at what I was doing.


While we are asleep, your subconscious tries desperately to set things right with your conscious self. Absolutely every person in the world operates this way. What you can infer is that your wife wants the closeness she initiated while she was asleep. She woke up and the conscious block reasserted itself. In your shoes, I would gently but firmly encourage her to talk to someone who specializes in trauma. Concerns of this nature generally do not repair on their own, and your walking on eggshells may be partially enabling her avoidance. Kindest Regards-


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

When people post on these boards, it's often difficult to get the "big picture" with just a single post from the OP. OPs aren't always forthcoming with information that could dramatically change the responder's opinions. They may leave out important details deliberately, or they leave them out because they simply don't realize how important those details are. 

I am *NOT* saying that _*you're*_ doing this, OP. What I AM suggesting is that you look at your own behavior FIRST to see if maybe you're doing something that is turning your wife OFF to you sexually. 

For instance...

_You_ might see your marriage as "pretty good", while your wife's experience might be that it's "really bad". Perhaps you come across as _controlling_ or even _arrogant_. Over time, it can wear a woman down to the point where she wants NOTHING to do with her husband, especially sexually.

Or, it could be something as 'simple' as your hygiene. Again, I'm not making assumptions, I'm making _suggestions_. 

The point is that WE can't make assumptions, either. We can't assume that her reaction is "all HER". 

Either way OP, you gotta TALK to her in a non threatening, non-hostile manner in order to get to the bottom of this, without blame, etc. Good luck.

Vega


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> Anger and the like suggest a feeling of entitlement and a disregard for her. It reinforces her perception and in fact says that he doesn't believe her. You guys really miss the mark here.



I agree with you something else is going on here and as with all other human interactions, 'honey' will probably go a lot farther than 'vinegar.' 

At the same time though, there is no reason for him to be pummeled verbally over this. Using words that are reserved for what, in the lexicon of American law are known as 'heinous' crimes suggests a feeling of entitlement via a personal boundary that spouses are _usually_ exempt from.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Ceegee said:


> PCarlin,
> 
> I'm going to tell you straight up, you're the one being abused.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I want to add to this. My wife was sexually abused as a child. She has told me in no uncertain terms that there will never be morning sex. Now I don't know if there is a connection between the two, though I suspect there is.

OK, no problem, she can't do it in the morning. I dislike the situation but it is what it is.

OP's wife is far over the edge with the rape/molestation diatribe. If she said simply that it bothers her greatly to be woken up to sexual activity there would be no problem. It would be a boundary of hers which OP should honor even though it is a disappointment for him.

It is indeed the shaming she is doing which is a big huge red flag. There is something very deeply askew in her brain regarding sex.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Thor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I want to add to this. My wife was sexually abused as a child. She has told me in no uncertain terms that there will never be morning sex. Now I don't know if there is a connection between the two, though I suspect there is.
> 
> ...


Right. 

She is not simply enforcing a boundary which she is entitled to do. 

It's the shaming of him and his natural needs, for which he should reasonably expect, that is sinister.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> 6301 and PHT, I take it that the two of you view sex as being all about power and you resent women because they can say no and that is that.
> 
> If either of you responded in the way you suggest and there is something deeper going on you have just lost your wife. This incident would never be forgotten. It would remain in the back of her mind as further proof that she can't trust you.
> 
> ...



Clip clop 2

Power struggle my ass. First I grew up with two older sisters and they both warned me when I was a teenager that sometimes a girl can give you all the indications that she is willing in MY mind and that's not really the case with HER and if I try to force myself on her, then I'm in serious, deep trouble with the law, her family and my own. I was told this a few times because I played in a garage band and we played at a lot of school dances and things like that and at that time (the mid 60's) there wasn't much live music so a band was a good way to meet girls. The information my sisters gave me, stayed with me like the one my dad always said when I was a kid that you don't hit girls. I heard it enough times to know that if you don't hit girls as a kid, you don't hit a woman when your a man. I also learned that when NO means NO, well that's what it meant. 

To throw out an accusation like being molested or rape to her husband is an out and out first class line of bull $h!t. it's not like he tied her to the bed and force himself on her. At the time they were in bed she was responding to him and to make an accusation like that is wrong. 

If it happened to me I would be pissed that my wife would say something like that to me. Rape and molestation is a VERY SERIOUS CRIME and I personally don't take it lightly and then when you start with the power struggle thing and resent women when in fact you don't know me. 

No woman deserves to be raped or violated in any way but it's real easy to point a finger and make an accusation like that and for his wife to say that to her husband is wrong. 

I still stick by what I said. Hand her a pillow and blanket and she can sleep someplace else but not in the same bed with him until she learns how to control her mouth and apologize to him for such a outlandish statement. Sorry for the rant and I hope no hard feelings.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

6301 it didn't happen to you and yet you appear pretty pissed. 

They have to talk. All this outrage doesn't help this marriage. I think the ferocity with which some have responded is also over the top.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> 6301 it didn't happen to you and yet you appear pretty pissed.
> 
> They have to talk. All this outrage doesn't help this marriage. I think the ferocity with which some have responded is also over the top.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 The reason why I'm pissed is that she could have used other words rather than rape or molestation. That is a terrible thing to say to her husband. It's a terrible thing to say to anyone when if fact there was no rape or molestation. Put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself if you would like it if it was said to you. I'll bet the house you would not be a happy camper. Honestly, I think if it was me, I would be afraid to be near her for fear that she might say it again. How is he supposed to act around her when that is thrown in his face? He would be walking on eggs for the rest of his life. 

Point is and I agree with you, they need to talk and get to the core of the matter and she need to apologize to him in a big time way. To a guy, that's a blow below the belt and uncalled for.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

clipclop2 said:


> 6301 and PHT,  I take it that the two of you view sex as being all about power and you resent women because they can say no and that is that.


Again, come on. You think that sentencing her husband to a life of celibacy, or falsely accusing him of a sexual crime, is a legitimate exercise of a woman's right to say no? Seriously? I'll just say that I disagree. I do resent women who try to sentence their husbands to lives of celibacy. And I resent the women who defend that practice. I also resent women who falsely accuse men of sexual crimes. And I resent women who defend that practice as well. Other than those groups of women, I love women.



> If either of you responded in the way you suggest and there is something deeper going on you have just lost your wife. This incident would never be forgotten. It would remain in the back of her mind as further proof that she can't trust you.


You're saying that, if I reacted strongly to my wife falsely accusing me of a crime, it would be proof that SHE couldn't trust ME? :rofl:



> I would apologize.taking her words so personally misses the point. Something big is going oyyn here. If she felt molested and the only response she got was a selfish one, it certainly won't make their sex life better.


I think you're missing the point. Husbands should require their wives to act reasonably. It's amazing to me that the idea of wives acting reasonably is controversial.



> Anger and the like suggest a feeling of entitlement and a disregard for her. It reinforces her perception and in fact says that he doesn't believe her.
> You guys really miss the mark here.


I think anger is a perfectly reasonable reaction to being falsely accused of a sexual crime by one's spouse. I think a husband is perfectly entitled to being secure in his marriage from being falsely accused of crimes by his spouse.



> If she apologize then it was a blip on the radar. If she doesn't it is a sign that their marriage is in trouble. A discussion about expectations in marriage as well as concern about what bringing a baby into the picture is in order. Counseling with someone who has experience with sexual issues but does not necessarily specialize in them would be worthwhile exploring.


I agree.


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