# Sex with a "nice guy".



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I've posted before that my H is the definition of a "nice guy". I love him so much and before anyone says it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being nice! Except when it prevents you from telling your spouse what you like, expressing your opinions, and expecting your wife to mind read, then being resentful when she doesn't guess correctly.

So, I had the realization a few days ago that I literally have NO IDEA what my H really likes in bed. Obviously he likes me, and he always seems to enjoy himself...he's never complained. But what I mean is, I have no idea if he prefers certain things over others, if he has any fantasies he's always wanted to try. I have no idea where his mind goes when he's thinking sexy thoughts or what kind of porn he likes or if there is anything I could be improving about my technique in bed. We've been having sex for eight years and everything I have learned about pleasing him has come to me by trial and error.

I wasn't a virgin when we got together and have always been pretty good about gauging his excitement/response from a physical stand point. I learned most of my lessons about how to touch him by asking him to masturbate in front of me. Then I took those principles and applied them across all aspects of our lovemaking. My only recognition of a job well done is when he O's. He has never once told me "Wow that was amazing." Or even really moaned or sounded excited during the act itself. So I wonder....am I not as good as I think I am? 

But yea, it is frustrating! I have poured my heart out to him, telling him all my desires and wish I could hear the same thing in return. It occurred to me that I really have no idea where I rank in his head in terms of skill and technique. I know that might sound silly but I would take any feedback he had, good or bad, and be so happy that he just gave me a real insight into where I stand.

Also I would really like to hear him guide me sometimes, tell me what feels good to him, suggest new things for us to try. I would love for him to even express to me that he is horny for god sakes! He never initiates. I know his drive is higher than mine, and I know that unless I make grand gestures to initiate sex frequently enough, he will masturbate rather than come to me and try to initiate. (Its not like i dont know what hes doing when every 3rd or 4th day his showers are 20 mins longer than usual.) Even when I tell him its an open door...it would turn me on instantly to know he desired me that way.

Ok rant over. I am just feeling frustrated. Any suggestions for me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I could be classified as a "nice guy" also but I have no problem telling my wife what I want or what feels good. One thing that we have done is read a book together (like "The Guide to Getting It On") and talk about what we are reading.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Are you married to MY husband?! I could have written that post myself. Wow.

All I can say is keep trying. We've been dealing with a lot of stuff more serious than this in the last couple of years, and one thing that's happened is that he is FINALLY starting to open up a wee bit more about what he likes in bed (as well as in other aspects of his life). He has always been SO focused on me and my pleasure that I don't even know if HE knows what he likes. But we're getting there. We also talk about this in MC.

I keep plugging away, bringing things up, suggesting things, asking him when we're doing it if this or that feels good or he likes it or to tell me what he wants. It's a slow process but I think we're making some headway at least


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Sometimes it's hard to open up and have these conversations. Have you started by telling him, explicitly, what you like/want?

Maybe it would be more comfortable to do it via text/email, ask him to tell you exactly what he wants you to do to him tonight. 

If he's uncomfortable with that, you start. Send him a detailed scenario that you want to act out with him tonight. Maybe spice it up with a picture or two to get him going.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

kag, he has been communicating nonverbally all along... in other words when you experiment has been using subtle things to let you know when you do something he likes. The problem with that approach is it leaves you feeling uncertain and it also means that if you don't try things he would like he will never get to experience them. and it sounds like he is WAY too subtle.

Do you ever do any kind of tying up or anything (specifically him tying you you up?)... reason I say is because once you are immobile it is completely on him to lead and do what comes next. If not I would try it out - he may feel awkward and disoeriented at first but if he becomes comfortable in that role it will be very empowering for him.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The one piece of advice I can give you is to be open and VERY receptive when he expresses what he likes. I know for me I have a ton of things that I would like but I automatically assume that she would not like it. I've been putting myself out there A LOT more over the last 9 months, but I'm still VERY SENSITIVE to her reactions. If I sense any hesitation I interpret it as rejection and I completely shut down. If you truly want him to show you what he wants then you have to avoid sending those negative signals at all costs. He'll sense them no matter how subtle.

Also, I agree with Lon. When I started tying my wife up, it opened me up quite a bit.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I suspect fear of rejection is part of the reason he is reticent to voice his preferences. 

It could also be, like me, short of anything painful, pretty much everything you do during sex feels good. If anything, he's avoiding feeling "too good" until he knows you've been satisfied. For myself I concentrate on my partner first cause my orgasm is pretty much a given.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

This may sound silly, but how about giving him a set of "gift" cards (bj, hj, you tied up, you on top, etc). Tell him they are redeemable at any time. He doesn't even have to hand them to you, just leave them on your pillow. Also include the ability to trade in one card for another, so if he likes doggie, he can trade in a HJ card for a different card.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

this isn't a want ad?


damn!!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't understand some guys. I love mixing it up in the bedroom. I love just "taking" her. I love it when she wants something "different". My mind is constantly at work trying to think of something "different."

It's like a hobby of mine.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

We sometimes, when it's a more involved session, get one of our laptops out and look on a sex positions website. There one called 101 sex positions, or something like that.

We then choose one we are going to try at some point during our session.

Would he be open to that do you think? It might start opening him up to letting you know whatever he likes.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

Maybe watch some porn together.

It can be easier to express a desire to do something that someone else is doing.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why don't you just ask him what he likes and what his fantasies are and follow suit?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> The one piece of advice I can give you is to be open and VERY receptive when he expresses what he likes. I know for me I have a ton of things that I would like but I automatically assume that she would not like it. I've been putting myself out there A LOT more over the last 9 months, but I'm still VERY SENSITIVE to her reactions. If I sense any hesitation I interpret it as rejection and I completely shut down. If you truly want him to show you what he wants then you have to avoid sending those negative signals at all costs. He'll sense them no matter how subtle.
> 
> Also, I agree with Lon. When I started tying my wife up, it opened me up quite a bit.


Along those lines, give yourself a safe-word. Let him know that if he does something you don't like, you have that word to fall back on. It may give him some confidence to know when it is just anticipation or nerves versus something you actually don't like or want.


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## discouraged1 (Mar 16, 2010)

kag123 said:


> I've posted before that my H is the definition of a "nice guy". I love him so much and before anyone says it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being nice! Except when it prevents you from telling your spouse what you like, expressing your opinions, and expecting your wife to mind read, then being resentful when she doesn't guess correctly.
> 
> So, I had the realization a few days ago that I literally have NO IDEA what my H really likes in bed. Obviously he likes me, and he always seems to enjoy himself...he's never complained. But what I mean is, I have no idea if he prefers certain things over others, if he has any fantasies he's always wanted to try. I have no idea where his mind goes when he's thinking sexy thoughts or what kind of porn he likes or if there is anything I could be improving about my technique in bed. We've been having sex for eight years and everything I have learned about pleasing him has come to me by trial and error.
> 
> ...


This description sounds exactly to a tee like my wife... thing is we have been married 20 + years. Honestly, I can tell you this for sure that nothing has changed and I have tried everything known to man. Nothing changes. I hope for you it will but I have doubts.. I think these types of people are so repressed that they simply cannot come out of their shells long enough to enjoy anything.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Why don't you just ask him what he likes and what his fantasies are and follow suit?


I've tried that, and all I usually get is something like "I like whatever turns you on" or "I like it when you cum" and other such stuff. If I push it he starts making jokes  He has said he fantasizes about a threesome with another woman - like most guys I guess - but that isn't about to become reality. He doesn't want it to be real anyway. Getting him to talk about it is a PITA. You just have to keep trying and keep trying.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

romantic_guy said:


> I could be classified as a "nice guy" also but I have no problem telling my wife what I want or what feels good. One thing that we have done is read a book together (like "The Guide to Getting It On") and talk about what we are reading.


Same here. Maybe there are degrees of "nice guyness" as I have no problem telling her what I like, talking dirty, or having my way with her. 

He really needs to learn that he can't get what he wants without communicating. You're right, OP. It's not fair to you to mind read and be emotionally punished for guessing wrong.


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## ARF (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm a nice guy and my wife is the nice girl. Sometimes it isn't the greatest match sexually to both be "nice." I've been slowly beating down the walls.

Directly asking has been tough though. I build up the courage to ask, and feel like I don't get a completely honest answer. I told my wife I think we both have an inner freak that we are hesitant to share with each other.

I have found that I have been slowly able to push the envelope. It hasn't always been easy being the "nice" guy. It pushes me out of my comfort zone, but it has been worth it to a point. Still have a ways to go, but I see progress.

Push his envelope some. Start fairly slow but maybe do something a little out of the ordinary and see his response. You might have to continue to initiate and suggest things. Being the "nice" guy myself, I imagine I could be persuaded to do some things if my wife were the more naughty of the two.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Sexual toxic shame is a hallmark of a pathologically Nice Guy. There is a difference between being a polite man and being a pathologically Nice (wimpy doormat indefinite indecisive fearful...) Guy. Your hubby sounds like he has some anxieties over discussing sex with you which could be sexual toxic shame and which could also be related to fearing you having a negative reaction.

He might really benefit from the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. And the support forums at nomoremrniceguy.com/forums where he can discuss these things.

You might try taking the sex discussions out of the bedroom. Break it into little bites. Be direct and ask him "What part of my body do you like best? My legs or my tits?" Be specific so he has to make a choice. Then reply "Good!" and walk away. Do it flirty. Do it when there is no chance for sex. This kind of thing lets him know that you like sex and you don't think it is dirty or bad. Send him a sexy text one day. Or send him a close up picture of some part of your body which is not obvious and challenge him to guess what part it is. Just be a little playful and do it in little bits at random times.

If he is a Nice Guy he may feel a lot of pressure to pleasure you sexually, and thus he might be anxious about giving you a "wrong" answer when you ask him what he likes. He might have toxic shame where he doesn't deeply believe he has a right to like sex without guilt. Talking outside of the bedroom can place the conversation away from anxieties he might feel if sex is happening or about to happen.

Make him take charge sometimes. For example you tell him that tonight you will not do anything without him first telling you precisely what to do. He has to direct you to kiss him, touch him someplace specific, move over there, take your clothes off, etc. Tell him you are his sex toy. Hopefully he will lose his inhibitions to talk to you, and hopefully he will reveal things he likes by telling you what to do.

You might have to tell him very directly he is being a wuss about talking to you about sex.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Good luck! Make him read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and other "man-up" literature. We nice guys, former and present, need to have our noses rubbed in reality for long enough before we change.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Funny that some wives try to 'nice' themselves out of a problematic situation with a Mr. Nice Guy.

I think the key is in communication, I see that people are repressed to talk about sex, and that to solve that first communication has to be learned. The being repressed is not a sex specific issue. Just in bed the malfunctioning of a person/relation comes to the surface in one of the worst places of the marriage, where happiness should prevail.

So work on real communication, not the social acceptable variant. Then on investigating each others repressed issues. And after that go and heal your sex life.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

I got a great idea from another website long ago that has helped my marriage. It might help here with "sex with a nice guy". I call it "30 Minutes of Pleasure"....and it works like this:

On one evening, it is my wife's turn, and she gets 30 Minutes of Pleasure...whatever SHE wants and desires in the bedroom. She specifies what she wants by simply asking me, or writing it down. For the next 30 minutes, I will happily fulfill her "sexual requests". It is all about her and her wants. 

On another day, it is my 30 minutes of pleasure...and I will ask my wife for exactly what I am dying for her to do with me...or to me. It is a very fun way to ask and receive exactly what you want. I have pushed the envelope and been very creative here...and my requests have never been denied. We can refuse a request if the other person is uncomfortable with it, but this has never happened so far. 

My wife and I have done this about 15 times. The first few times, she was shy and wrote down the things that she requested that I do on a piece of paper...and as time went on, she became bolder and just asked me. I am glad to fulfill her requests because it always makes her very happy!!!...and when my wife is happy, I am happy. 

I would suggest that you try this "30 Minutes of Pleasure" idea!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ARF said:


> I'm a nice guy and my wife is the nice girl. Sometimes it isn't the greatest match sexually to both be "nice." I've been slowly beating down the walls.


 I agree with this, in our marriage, I'm the "rougher" one... I take the bull by the horns, he is more timid, he has a comfort zone too...that I keep trying to push a little by little... I am more sexually adventerous, it was ME who got us to try "doggie" for goodness sakes, what Man doesn't want Doggie [email protected]#$%

Though he prefers "Lazy Dog"... This is the Positions website another mentioned on here >> 

Sex Positions Guide

I recently bought this book - we are reading together >> 

Just **** Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom 

It seems to understand WHY some men ARE this way... upbringing , what they've seen from Parents, religious teachings to be loving, sweet, gentle, even in the workplace..if a man pushs even a little- might get a sexual harassment suit thrown at him, fear of rape. Then you add a more laid back temperament to all of this , and well... you have a bonafide Nice Guy. Not sure how your husband is but mine is so much of a Pleaser, that if I wasn't excited in the act, if he felt the slightest hesitation on my part - it would be hollow for him, he'd loose his erection. He feeds off of my pleasure...good thing I am a sex hound, or he'd be in a real pickle. 



> *Kag123 said*: He has never once told me "Wow that was amazing." Or even really moaned or sounded excited during the act itself. So I wonder....am I not as good as I think I am?


 Some men are naturally quieter in bed, mine is one of those......more quiet than I would like actually...sometimes it bugs me... but If I say something - he generally has some response.. Does this work for you ??

Sometimes I'll say "Is that too much?"...feeling like I am pushing it & it might be all over...I get the same response every time... ..."you're always too much". ha ha That makes me  anyway. 

But really.. outside of this small exchange..and maybe a few surprises now & then....it is overwhelmingly his facial expressions -not his words & feedback.. I get more







's over any flirty talk....this has annoyed me at times....Me telling him I want him to be more DIRTY, more verbal .... one day he shut me up good & said "my touch should be worth a thousands words". 

I zipped my lip after that. He just doesn't feel the need. Even though I would LIKE it ! I know he wants me to just be content with what is happening under the covers, the feel of his hands & our bodies together. THAT is where it IS - for him. 



> But yea, it is frustrating! I have poured my heart out to him, telling him all my desires and wish I could hear the same thing in return. It occurred to me that I really have no idea where I rank in his head in terms of skill and technique. I know that might sound silly but I would take any feedback he had, good or bad, and be so happy that he just gave me a real insight into where I stand.


 Do you ask specific questions to him regarding these things...better outside of love making....maybe afterwards.... holding each other close??

With mine, he will answer anything/everything, he doesn't mind my asking...and I so appreciate that. 



> He never initiates. I know his drive is higher than mine, and I know that unless I make grand gestures to initiate sex frequently enough, he will masturbate rather than come to me and try to initiate. (Its not like i don't know what hes doing when every 3rd or 4th day his showers are 20 mins longer than usual.) Even when I tell him its an open door...it would turn me on instantly to know he desired me that way.


 This right here would really upset me - if I was in your shoes, so he KNOWS you want him, you're not going to reject him (or maybe he still fears this -from past occurances- ever ask??) ... but he still is choosing to hide his desire - and take care of it in the shower.. some women get upset to be woken up, is it this ? 


In the past, did he get ALOT of rejection from you- maybe this still hasn't been shaken from his psych, I know my husband is very very sensitive to sexual rejection. I've utterly worked this out of him to the point if he doesn't come on to me, he is going to face a worse fate. I am joking, but I let him know that HURTS ME more. 

*How about a Sex Game to get him sharing / spicing.*.....

We have this one, so many cards (like 300?) -you can just ditch the board and use the cards at your bedside -it gets you talking and trying new things !
 Discover Your Lover Adult Board Game Review 

Just bought this one -but didn't get around to trying it yet >>  XXXopoly - Adult Board Games:


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## MrJohnson (Nov 10, 2012)

I can relate to that from the Man's perspective. I know that if I think my partner is less sexual than I want to be, then I feel guilty for needing it or wanting to do something that might turn her off. It's SO much easier to sneak around than it is to take a chance on being rejected. 

Suggestion:
Masturbate in front of him or even let him catch you. I saw my wife exercising this morning and that was enough to do it for me. Perhaps that will bring him out of his shell. It's no fun to live in there and much more fun to come out.

Good luck to you. My wife and I would both be interested to hear what happens.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thank you all for the wonderful feedback. I thought about it a bit before I came back to respond here.

I do talk to him about sex, I have no problem talking about it - definitely not shy in that area! And I make sure that I never phrase any of my suggestions in any way that might be construed as an insult to him or negative feedback. I try to praise, praise, praise and praise some more when he comes out of his shell a bit. It does seem to help but in the long run...he's still very closed off from me. 

The toxic shame reply - that is spot on. This is deeper than just your average run-of-the-mill shyness. I dont know if he had a traumatic experience when he was younger, or whether he just holds a lot of guilt in this area for some other reason (he was raised in strict Catholic upbringing K-12, and was a virgin until his 20's. I know he wasnt exactly a "ladies man", but he wasn't a virgin when we got together. Other than that I literally know NOTHING about his sexual past.) - I don't know. I can only speculate because as with everything else, he does.not.want.to.talk.about.it. ! 

The thing is - he has read the NMMNG book (on his own) - and right now I have not seen a big change in his overall demeanor. I have not read the book myself, because I largely felt that I CAN'T (and shouldn't?) try to change him. I know that it has to come from him or it won't be long-lasting. Also, any other woman who lives with a "nice guy" might know, that it's a death knell to say or do anything that could be percieved as criticism. I fear the shameful downward spiral that I would send him in if I started telling him things I wanted him to change - because I've been there, done that, and it didn't go well.

I chuckled a bit at those who said "Why not just ask him what he likes?" We are soooo beyond that point. 

Anyhow - this affects every facet of our life. Sometimes I think it's a good thing that I am a fairly confident person, because I can feel good about myself without having to hear constant praise and adoration from him. However, there ARE times (like when I wrote this thread) that I do second-guess myself and wonder if my self-confidence might be unwarranted, since he literally NEVER gives me any feedback, ever.

So typically - I talk about sex, both inside and outside of the bedroom, and he listens. He does not give feedback. If I tell him there is something I'd like to try - he's so there and will be on me before I can finish my sentence - but if I ask him what HE wants me to do - it's nothing but "I just like to please you" and "Whatever you want to do, is what I want to do" Which, while sweet, is also kind of...barf! sometimes. We've also tried the whole tying-me-up thing and it fell flat. He was too afraid to make a move on me and basically sat there wide-eyed, erection-less, waiting for me to give him direction. I had to order him around to get him to make any moves! 

I dream about him talking dirty to me, telling me he wants me, ordering me around and telling me what to do to him, begging me to do something to him, and just "taking" me. None of these things have ever come close to happening. When I bring up sexy talk (when I go first, in an effort to get him to join me), it turns him on but he still wont participate in the talk. He usually shuts me up quickly by kissing me or you know, moving things along. And I could really use that pause and talking to get myself going sometimes...maybe just a little more foreplay before we get to the main course, you know? I have tried non face-to-face communication, too, like texting and email - all of it falls flat on his end. He won't bite. I can relate to SA's post though - because pretty much everything adventurous or spicy that we've ever done has come from me and my suggestion! 

Regarding comments about fearing rejection - I can count on one hand the number of times he's initiated sex in our entire relationship - ! I truly have no memory of rejecting him (maybe once or twice?) so I get frustrated when I hear he has a fear of rejection - when I feel that I have never given a reason for him to feel that way! 

The ONE thing I will say - that is a complication to this issue - is that I have some unrelenting health issues for the last couple of years that I do think scare him off a bit. I have made a post about it recently in another part of the forum. Basically I live with a near constant disability at this point, which I am seeking treatment for but the doctors cannot find anything wrong with me. So he sees that I feel like absolute sh!t 90% of the time, and I think he translates that as thinking that sex is completely off the table and he shouldn't even bring it up. The truth is, I could easily get into the mood and even ENJOY sex very much, even when I am feeling bad most of the time. It is the perfect stress relief and the perfect thing to take my mind off my pain and trouble. I have told him that. He's even witnessed me feeling poorly at dinner time and still wanting him later in the night, but I guess he is too afraid of bringing it up, I don't know. I am really hoping to get my health under control so that we can rid ourselves of this burden, but I wish he didn't treat me as if I were so fragile in the mean time!!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

When I was in my twenties, I was voracious. I would do it outside in any number of places. I would do it on the porch under a blanket in broad daylight. I didn't care and it was so much fun. I was not afraid to explore, however, neither of us knew much about what to do or how to do it.

When we split, she let some things about our sex life get out. It devastated me. In my second marriage, I wanted to do more but, could not unless she was willing to talk a little about things she wanted to do as well. She would not, probably for the same reason I wanted her to share with me. Vicious circle isn't it? 

I didn't make much noise, partly because the restraint kept me from finishing early and partly due to embarrassment. Oh well, good luck.


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## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

Kag why did u write all that out. Print it out on your printer and read to him, or uncomfortable, turn the light down and explore your husband anew, but this time ask questions, and wait for answers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


Caught your update, well maybe you are doing just what he
likes either by chance or your on skill.

But if we are now talking about getting further along to what you like, I can only suggest how I "trained" my husband. 
And that was hand over hand like teaching a child how to write, it takes guidance.
It required no talk in my part just my hands atop hits hands moving and guiding and grabbing and pulling and voila
he has never forgotten those lessons


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

Thor said:


> Sexual toxic shame is a hallmark of a pathologically Nice Guy. There is a difference between being a polite man and being a pathologically Nice (wimpy doormat indefinite indecisive fearful...) Guy. Your hubby sounds like he has some anxieties over discussing sex with you which could be sexual toxic shame and which could also be related to fearing you having a negative reaction.
> 
> He might really benefit from the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. And the support forums at nomoremrniceguy.com/forums where he can discuss these things.
> 
> ...



:iagree: Very well said Thor! That is exactly what I would recommend.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

kag123 said:


> I do talk to him about sex, I have no problem talking about it - definitely not shy in that area! And I make sure that I never phrase any of my suggestions in any way that might be construed as an insult to him or negative feedback.


Kag, all of that sounds right on target to me. I am a recovering Nice Guy who had a dose of sexual toxic shame from how I was brought up. My wife was a lot more experienced when we met than I was, and it was intimidating to me. I needed her positive feedback. So your positive approach is key.



kag123 said:


> The toxic shame reply - that is spot on. This is deeper than just your average run-of-the-mill shyness. I dont know if he had a traumatic experience when he was younger, or whether he just holds a lot of guilt in this area for some other reason (he was raised in strict Catholic upbringing K-12, and was a virgin until his 20's. I know he wasnt exactly a "ladies man", but he wasn't a virgin when we got together. Other than that I literally know NOTHING about his sexual past.) - I don't know. I can only speculate because as with everything else, he does.not.want.to.talk.about.it.


I suspect it is more than Catholic Guilt. I do wonder if he was sexually abused as a boy. It affects boys a lot differently than girls, but the secrecy about sex is a bit of a red flag. Or his parents deeply brainwashed him with shame about sex. I think he needs some kind of professional counseling to deal with his issues and also to make the point that this is a serious marital issue _for you_.




kag123 said:


> The ONE thing I will say - that is a complication to this issue - is that I have some unrelenting health issues for the last couple of years that I do think scare him off a bit.


I'm calling BS on that one from his side. He is using it as an excuse. Maybe he is even fooling himself about it. If you have made it clear to him that despite your health issues you want to have sex, it is your decision not his on when you feel well enough for sex.

As someone who did have a lot of sexual toxic shame myself, I can tell you that I put an unhealthy emphasis on sex as an indicator of love. It is perhaps contradictory but it is common. There is guilt over wanting sex, but sex is seen as the ultimate goal because it is an indicator of love. The most common situation for the Nice Guy is that he is not getting much sex in his marriage and he is emotionally desperate for it. So if his wife is approaching him for sex he is overjoyed. If my wife had been asking for more sex and better sex, I would have been pouncing on her every day! The Nice Guy can feel intimidated by her directness but I really believe he will become accustomed to it and will slowly loosen up.

What you describe is very different. You persistently approach him in a positive way. You ask him to communicate his desires to you. Yet he remains closed off. I believe his problem is deep enough that you aren't going to be able to nudge him along. IOW, _your husband is outside of the norm_.

I would approach this in as positive a way as possible, but directly and seriously. I would ask him open questions and just listen to his answers. What does he think of sex? How often would he want sex on an ideal basis? Does he like sex with you? Does he think you like sex with him? Does he feel guilt about sex? Is he afraid of hurting you because of your illness? Has he had bad experiences before you? Does he believe sex is a central part of a marriage relationship? Does he think married people should have wild frequent sex?

Just listen without expressing judgment. Don't correct anything he says.

I would then explain to him that for years the marriage has been sexually unsatisfactory to you. You want to have a great sex life _with him_. While he may feel things are ok, _they are not ok for you_. Then tell him you think you should both go to MC or perhaps a sex therapist.

I think he needs to be shocked into a new mindset.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I've been married to a similar type man for 21 years and I can honestly say talking about it only compounded the problem. The more I talked the more like a failure he felt. He just didn't get it. He had a lot of catholic shame as well plus he was scared of me and my reactions to him. He shut down and shut me out both emotionally and sexually. Oh we still had sex but it was the repressed kind.

I got lots of excuses and stories and they were all BS. None of it was true.

It's taken a lot....a lot more than I can put on one post as to how I got him to finally open up to me but I did it. I assure you I did it by NOT talking. The first thing that had to happen was he had to be free and the second is I had to love him as he is NOW. Full acceptance and he had to believe that to the depths of his soul. Once he had that he was then free to trust me with his secrets and his sexuality.

Your best bet is to take his words at face value and let the poor man be. He's said he doesn't want to talk about it so why do you insist on pushing? Pushing never works. Respect does. I know it's hard when you want this badly but it will happen in his time not yours.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Mavash - I was hoping you would chime in because I realized you had responded to my other threads in the past. I would love to hear your story - I am desperate for something that I can relate to. If you don't feel like making a big post about it, I understand. Could you point me to any other places where you've shared your story?

Despite me making the thread here, we actually talk about this very infrequently. Any talk we do have I keep it at a light hearted banter, and usually sparks the mood. Like I said earlier, I am extremely careful not to even appear as to criticize or judge him because he just withdraws even further. I try to focus on making it fun and open, especially in the bedroom.

At the same time, a girls got needs, and I don't think it's fair for me to be criticized for trying to figure out how yo get them met within the context of my marriage. If there was anything I could do, say, not say or not do to help this along I would be all over it. I feel like I am walking blind in the night and don't know what to do here. The longer we are married, the more he shuts me out. Its been a slow 180 since we started dating!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> If I sense any hesitation I interpret it as rejection and I completely shut down. *If you truly want him to show you what he wants then you have to avoid sending those negative signals at all costs. He'll sense them no matter how subtle.*


*This advise is absolutely golden! I couldn't agree more!*


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## Revel (Mar 13, 2012)

kag123 said:


> ...So typically - I talk about sex, both inside and outside of the bedroom, and he listens. He does not give feedback...
> 
> ... if I ask him what HE wants me to do - it's nothing but "I just like to please you" and "Whatever you want to do, is what I want to do" ...
> 
> ...


Instead of diagnosing him as a "nice" guy, maybe he's simply a guy who only has a mild interest in sex? Do you think that he'd be fine with infrequent sex? Maybe he simply has a lower libido? Have his testosterone levels been checked lately?

I would probably be called a nice guy too, but I also have a very high libido that craves a wild and adventurous sex life that may mirror yours. My sexual desires do no match my nice guy public persona. I'm mild mannered and polite, but I also have vivid erotic fantasies and desire that drive me, even if tired and sick with a fever. Naughty language and doing something near the edge of my comfort zone is thrilling for me. I'd love to have sex multiple times a day, though I'm conservative in my non-sexual life. The behavior that your husband exhibits seems very similar to my wife's behavior since her libido tanked after having our second child. Not much interest. No fantasies. Not very adventurous. Sexual variety wouldn't happen unless I drive it, and then it is often unwelcome. I am sympathetic.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

> Mavash - I was hoping you would chime in because I realized you had responded to my other threads in the past. I would love to hear your story - I am desperate for something that I can relate to. If you don't feel like making a big post about it, I understand. Could you point me to any other places where you've shared your story?


My husband knows I'm on TAM and knows I sought help here. He's happy I did but NO WAY would I want him reading how I talked about him so I deleted all the threads I started. Books that helped were No More Mr Nice Guy, Fascinating Womanhood (be warned feminists HATE this book) and his needs her needs.



> Despite me making the thread here, we actually talk about this very infrequently. Any talk we do have I keep it at a light hearted banter, and usually sparks the mood. Like I said earlier, I am extremely careful not to even appear as to criticize or judge him because he just withdraws even further. I try to focus on making it fun and open, especially in the bedroom.


No such thing. No matter how well you think you are doing this your body language is giving you away. He KNOWS you aren't happy with him. He knows it. Until you can change YOUR attitude towards him he will never truly feel safe with you.



> At the same time, a girls got needs, and I don't think it's fair for me to be criticized for trying to figure out how yo get them met within the context of my marriage.


What about HIS needs? Oh I feel for you I do but until you can see this from HIS point of view you will struggle. You have no idea how low his self esteem is and how bad he feels about himself deep down inside. He sees himself as unloveable and worthless. 



> If there was anything I could do, say, not say or not do to help this along I would be all over it. I feel like I am walking blind in the night and don't know what to do here.


You can't fix a problem you don't understand. And likely it's multiple problems which complicates matters.



> The longer we are married, the more he shuts me out.


Dig deep to find out WHY. Why does he feel the need to shut you out? Do you mean sexually or is he doing it in other ways too? You gotta play detective and learn to SEE him really see him. See past this false facade he puts on in front of you. Seek to UNDERSTAND and try not to make it be all about you.

My heart truly goes out to you. It does. I spent 21 years like this and just now figured out how to get him to open up. I had a TON to fix though. LOL


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