# In need of different points of view...



## Craig Foster (Jan 11, 2016)

I met my wife traveling the world as a performer, she is a performer as well. We started out as friends and became very good friends. neither of us was single at the time and really had no devices on the other...just a great friendship plane and simple. We were friends for about 5-6 months before things went south with the other person i was dating and things didnt end well with the person she was with. They weren't really serious or long relationships that ended on either of our parts. Our friendship continued until I realized maybe I would like to pursue something with her. Long story short I got the courage up to tell her how I felt, and the rest was history. We finished the contract we were on and set off together into the world. She is Canadian so there was a little worry there about immigration and such. but she ended up moving with me to NY an we started an incredible adventure together. We have always been inseparable, never wanting to be apart. As time went by things got more serious, we had to be apart at times for work. I took a contract that was 6 months to make ends meet and support us, she at one point did the same. Or love always strong, there was nothing we couldn't get through together. I have to mention that we considered ourselves sexually "liberated" we were pretty casual about sex, we got into swinging and that sort of stuff and we thought it made us "cool" and "unique". At one point she was being offered jobs here in the States and we spent all of our money on a lawyer to get her an 0-1 visa. it ended up not working and she lost a few amazing jobs because of it, This was about 2.5 years into our relationship. SO we decided to get married, it seemed like the best and most logical choice, after all we really loved each other and didn't want to be ripped apart by the govt. There was no doubt in my mind that I wanted to marry her and still isn't. So I romantically surprised her on the beach in Hawaii one night with a ring. and we got married maybe 3 months later. We then went on to live an amazing life together, seeing the world eating the best foods doing everything some only dream of. We had our fights and ups and downs like any marriage but it seemed like nothing could ever defeat us, we even boasted about it. All the while practicing this sexually liberated life style. The lifestyle isn't something I thought we would always do, just something while were "young and hot" we would settle down and have a family one day after all! But she ended up taking a job that was going to take her out of the country for about 5 months, upon which I encouraged her to follow her sexual desires and even pushed her to do things and tell me about them. She does and ends up "falling in love" with this other guy that she had my encouragement on. I didn't fully find this out until I went to be with her at the end of her contract and it all came out. In a whirlwind of tears and emotion I told her I forgave her and that there was nothing we couldn't get through together. That we needed to make a change in our life and stop living that way. From there we went backpacking in Thailand for 2.5 weeks and It was really up and down, she couldn't stop thinking of him, we couldn't be intimate, and me trying desperately to remind her of our love and why we got married in the first place. She seemed pretty decided that we would seperate when we got back and I made all the mistakes they say not to, begged, pleaded, Cried, held onto her for dear life at night like it would be the last time I would ever get to...because it might. It has been about 6 months sense then and we have gone through a few periods of "no contact" I had hoped giving her space would help. we will resume contact and we still have this amazing connection, but it always leads to us beating each other over the head with the same rhetoric," I believe in marriage, that love is a choice that we make, Love is commitment, loyalty and sacrifice" She owes it to herself to at least try to fix what we had before being with someone else" She "Believes, that she is meant to be with this other person, they are cut from the same cloth, that she is her best self with him" She is also so "hurt" over all the sexual stuff we had been doing. But the thing is we did it together and I always tried to make it clear she never had to do anything she didn't want to. She had it in her head that I would always resent her however if she didn't. Had I truly known how emotional damaging the life we were living i would have never allowed it to continue but from my perspective she seemed to be into it as much as me and never put her foot down. I have to admit I was also quite addicted to the rush of what we were doing and I can take things too far especially since I believed it was ok because we were of the same mind about it. 

Currently where things stand: She admits to our amazing connection and friendship on which our marriage was based. She says she will "always be my friend" and that she is so thankful for everything i have ever done to help her get where she is, and so thankful for all the times we shared. but she knows she is meant to be with this other person. All of this really cuts deep, from my perspective I dont know how you can betray anyone like that let alone your husband and best friend. How can she think we can be friends after 5 years together when she left me for someone else? I think in her head she has somehow rationalized everything so far as to not see what she has done as the deepest of betrayals. I told her the only way we could ever truly be friends is if she really tried to work on us, and if then we truly weren't meant to be then this man wouldn't be " the other guy" and we could move on knowing we really tried and maybe be friends one day.... On thanksgiving she tried to text to say she was thankful for all the times we shared, I didn't respond, around christmas she sent me a seemingly harmless text saying she "missed running into me somewhere" I ignored that as well. As far as im concerned we have nothing to talk about, she doesnt want to try to fix our marriage and I do. So I have decided to never speak to her again unless that changes. and it kills me inside everyday. 

I know how this works, I have to let her see that this "true" love she has found is BS. but am I being foolish? If i want to win her back should I suck it up and "be friends" with her focus on the quality of our interactions and always leave her wanting to talk more etc? On the one hand It could lead her back to me if things start going south with this person. On the other hand It could make things better for her because she gets to "have her cake and eat it too" she gets whats missing with her relationship from him via being friends with me.... Or do I just lay low for the time being wait and see what happens. I have to stick by my principles and my commitment we made, It was for better of for worse, and I made a lot of mistakes and at times probably made her feel objectified and small. but It was un intentional and its not the life we have to live. If one part of the marriage is broken you fix that part, you don't just blow it all up. 

I don't know how I could be "friends" with someone who has betrayed me s deeply and maybe even doesn't see it that way/has no desire to make amends. There are some wounds time cant heal, only the person who mad them, trying to make amends can" in that case its both of us... Is this thinking going to keep me from winning her back. 

In our time apart I have done nothing but focus on changing the things within me that lead us down that road, even getting help with the sexual addiction that I didn't realize I had previously....

I would especially like women's perspective...on the issue

I will never give up on trying to win her heart back....:crying:


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

as much as it hurts, i think your primary instincts are right. don't contact her. don't try to contact her or let her have her cake and eat it.
she's forsaken her wedding vows.

i can say this as one who, once upon a time had to do this very thing. i had to let go. 
I mulled in my head over and over what i would say to her. it killed me every day. every day for months, 
i was tempted to hit that e-mail send button or that auto dial button. 

so i know how it feels, and time showed me i made the right choice.

you must love her from afar for now.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

I am female, first of all. And sorry to say, if her heart is elsewhere, there is little you do. You can wait it out and become her fallback guy, the classic Plan B. That means she gets to indulge in this new exciting relationship while you mope and pine for her, until the relationship fails, if it does, and then, if she does not have a new one on the horizon, she MIGHT want you back. Until the next time she "falls in love".

I don't believe in swinging, or sex outside of the marriage, but affairs happen even in committed relationships all the time. So while that might not be the reason this happened, the fact that she was making herself sexually available to other men increased the odds she might fall in love. Usually, when married women have affairs, in my experience, it is because their marriage is shaky and someone near by (close friend, co-worker) suddenly becomes more, due to their "understanding" and willingness the listen. But it is another story when a married woman is traveling for work and actively seeking out sex. She will always, always find it. Even if you somehow "get her back", don't expect a happily ever after. Sorry to be so blunt, but it sounds like she will bail on you every time a new man catches her eye for more than just a one night stand.

You need to live your life with the assumption she is not coming back. Carry on, improve yourself, change jobs, whatever. And let her live her life. Don't beg, don't even communicate with her. Don't let her have him, and you too. Sorry to be harsh. But she is not thinking about you now.


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## Craig Foster (Jan 11, 2016)

I have to be a little bit more fourth coming, I waned her to be sexually adventurous. It was my kink not hers...It turned me on not that it took any real convincing she was truly my partner in crime or so i though. It was foolish. She would never have indulged if i hadn't pushed her to. Our sex life was always pretty amazing but I think she was missing the intimacy, part of my problem is that It always had to be more, taboo, more dirty and I forgot to just make love to her... But can it be so easy as "falling in love" with another? Love does not alter when it alteration finds...how do you just walk away from a so many wonderful memories and a person who has truly been your support structure? Especially family....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The lifestyle can be fun, at the beginning, but the moment that your marriage is vulnerable....BAMM! There is someone that you are already connecting to and it makes it easy to wonder what THIS person is outside of the lifestyle. 

The main things with the lifestyle and your relationship is that she was doing it for you. To please you and perhaps she ended up enjoying it a bit. 

She seems like she's gone. You are doing the right thing by ignoring the text. If she wanted to fix it, she would let you know. Instead, she is just fishing....


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I don't think you guys were on the same page about marriage and commitment from the start. Just two close friends, who enjoyed sex together but weren't exclusive. Then, due to her non-citizenship, you married. You thought it was for love and loyalty, and that it would change your relationship. She thought it was for the immigration advantages and that your relationship would stay the same.

If you think you can't go back to the friendship you once had, ending the whole relationship is the right thing to do. Get all the legal stuff handled, maintain no contact, and move on with your life knowing yourself and your needs better for the next relationship.

If you think you can return to a friendship in which you move in and out of each other's orbits over time and other lovers can come and go, then stay in an open marriage where you use each other as a home base for separate adventures. You'll find out what she really feels about this other guy if she wants a divorce so she can marry him.

But honestly, I don't think you both ever felt the same type of bond, from what you describe. You thought you were an inseparable twosome with a particularly adventurous sex life that involved other people. She thought you were wonderful until something better came along. And such a selfish person is not someone anybody needs in their life.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Craig Foster said:


> I met my wife traveling the world as a performer, she is a performer as well. We started out as friends and became very good friends. neither of us was single at the time and really had no devices on the other...just a great friendship plane and simple. We were friends for about 5-6 months before things went south with the other person i was dating and things didnt end well with the person she was with. They weren't really serious or long relationships that ended on either of our parts. Our friendship continued until I realized maybe I would like to pursue something with her. Long story short I got the courage up to tell her how I felt, and the rest was history. We finished the contract we were on and set off together into the world. She is Canadian so there was a little worry there about immigration and such. but she ended up moving with me to NY an we started an incredible adventure together. We have always been inseparable, never wanting to be apart. As time went by things got more serious, we had to be apart at times for work. I took a contract that was 6 months to make ends meet and support us, she at one point did the same. Or love always strong, there was nothing we couldn't get through together. I have to mention that we considered ourselves sexually "liberated" we were pretty casual about sex, we got into swinging and that sort of stuff and we thought it made us "cool" and "unique". At one point she was being offered jobs here in the States and we spent all of our money on a lawyer to get her an 0-1 visa. it ended up not working and she lost a few amazing jobs because of it, This was about 2.5 years into our relationship. SO we decided to get married, it seemed like the best and most logical choice, after all we really loved each other and didn't want to be ripped apart by the govt. There was no doubt in my mind that I wanted to marry her and still isn't. So I romantically surprised her on the beach in Hawaii one night with a ring. and we got married maybe 3 months later. We then went on to live an amazing life together, seeing the world eating the best foods doing everything some only dream of. We had our fights and ups and downs like any marriage but it seemed like nothing could ever defeat us, we even boasted about it. All the while practicing this sexually liberated life style. The lifestyle isn't something I thought we would always do, just something while were "young and hot" we would settle down and have a family one day after all! But she ended up taking a job that was going to take her out of the country for about 5 months, upon which I encouraged her to follow her sexual desires and even pushed her to do things and tell me about them. She does and ends up "falling in love" with this other guy that she had my encouragement on. I didn't fully find this out until I went to be with her at the end of her contract and it all came out. In a whirlwind of tears and emotion I told her I forgave her and that there was nothing we couldn't get through together. That we needed to make a change in our life and stop living that way. From there we went backpacking in Thailand for 2.5 weeks and It was really up and down, she couldn't stop thinking of him, we couldn't be intimate, and me trying desperately to remind her of our love and why we got married in the first place. She seemed pretty decided that we would seperate when we got back and I made all the mistakes they say not to, begged, pleaded, Cried, held onto her for dear life at night like it would be the last time I would ever get to...because it might. It has been about 6 months sense then and we have gone through a few periods of "no contact" I had hoped giving her space would help. we will resume contact and we still have this amazing connection, but it always leads to us beating each other over the head with the same rhetoric," I believe in marriage, that love is a choice that we make, Love is commitment, loyalty and sacrifice" She owes it to herself to at least try to fix what we had before being with someone else" She "Believes, that she is meant to be with this other person, they are cut from the same cloth, that she is her best self with him" She is also so "hurt" over all the sexual stuff we had been doing. But the thing is we did it together and I always tried to make it clear she never had to do anything she didn't want to. She had it in her head that I would always resent her however if she didn't. Had I truly known how emotional damaging the life we were living i would have never allowed it to continue but from my perspective she seemed to be into it as much as me and never put her foot down. I have to admit I was also quite addicted to the rush of what we were doing and I can take things too far especially since I believed it was ok because we were of the same mind about it.
> 
> Currently where things stand: She admits to our amazing connection and friendship on which our marriage was based. She says she will "always be my friend" and that she is so thankful for everything i have ever done to help her get where she is, and so thankful for all the times we shared. but she knows she is meant to be with this other person. All of this really cuts deep, from my perspective I dont know how you can betray anyone like that let alone your husband and best friend. How can she think we can be friends after 5 years together when she left me for someone else? I think in her head she has somehow rationalized everything so far as to not see what she has done as the deepest of betrayals. I told her the only way we could ever truly be friends is if she really tried to work on us, and if then we truly weren't meant to be then this man wouldn't be " the other guy" and we could move on knowing we really tried and maybe be friends one day.... On thanksgiving she tried to text to say she was thankful for all the times we shared, I didn't respond, around christmas she sent me a seemingly harmless text saying she "missed running into me somewhere" I ignored that as well. As far as im concerned we have nothing to talk about, she doesnt want to try to fix our marriage and I do. So I have decided to never speak to her again unless that changes. and it kills me inside everyday.
> 
> ...


I am a woman, sorry that you are in this position but you are partly to blame. A man and woman are very different, and I don't care how 'liberated' the woman pretends to be. No little girl grows up thinking I want to be laid by loads of men and with my husbands approaval. That has got to be the most insane thing ever. That is a man's way of thinking, spread his seed as much as possible. Deep down every woman wants her man to be a prince, who loves her, cherishes her, would do anything for her, protects her and most definitely doesn't want to share her. 
You thought she was into your views on 'liberated' sex and she probably pretended to be as many women will do anything to please their man, all in the name of love. Well now you know. I guess this OM will not be sharing her? I think the best advice for you is to move on and keep with the no contact.


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## Craig Foster (Jan 11, 2016)

Again...what we did wasn't her "idea" or something she propagated even. As performers were just part of a different world that is very sexual. We were exclusive just adventurous, there was no misconceptions about our love for each other. It was not an "arraignment for her to get a greencard, She never once brought up marriage in the face off all that was going on. I did, and it was without a doubt what we both wanted Plus she's not from a 3rd world country...she's Canadian they love being canadian and could care less about "sneaking into the states" She comes from a family of divorce where as I come from a whole family that has always been stable, Which could account for the poor moral fortitude or lack of character on her part in this situation. I mean I have undeniable proof slide shows put together from our wedding, blog post about how much in love and happy she is to be marrying the love of her life the fact that we spent every night intertwined in each other. This other guy seemed to "shed a light" on the fact that she didn't want to be doing what we were doing anymore. Which is fine we could fix that. I guess my problem is people who think that "falling out of love" Or "falling in love" with someone else is an acceptable excuse for betraying anyone....when your married you make a commitment for better or worse, there will be times and phases you go through where you might even forget why you fell in love with that person in the first place THATS when the commitment comes into play. And you push through those times to come out the other side with a deeper understanding of true love. Its how marriages last 50+ years... This idea that you someone is "Meant to be" or they are the "One" is a load of romantic BS. Love is a choice that we make, because when things stop being perfect, when they honey moon phase is over there has to be something stronger. But you are right I think about her being a selfish person in this instance. However, we all make mistakes and loose our way at times. Were only human, just because she is forsaking her vows at the moment doesn't mean I should. If you make a mistake and break a vow, purposefully or inadvertently it doesn't void it. or maybe thats just romantic BS too...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Craig Foster said:


> Again...what we did wasn't her "idea" or something she propagated even. As performers were just part of a different world that is very sexual. We were exclusive just adventurous, there was no misconceptions about our love for each other. It was not an "arraignment for her to get a greencard, She never once brought up marriage in the face off all that was going on. I did, and it was without a doubt what we both wanted Plus she's not from a 3rd world country...she's Canadian they love being canadian and could care less about "sneaking into the states" She comes from a family of divorce where as I come from a whole family that has always been stable, Which could account for the poor moral fortitude or lack of character on her part in this situation. I mean I have undeniable proof slide shows put together from our wedding, blog post about how much in love and happy she is to be marrying the love of her life the fact that we spent every night intertwined in each other. This other guy seemed to "shed a light" on the fact that she didn't want to be doing what we were doing anymore. Which is fine we could fix that. I guess my problem is people who think that "falling out of love" Or "falling in love" with someone else is an acceptable excuse for betraying anyone....when your married you make a commitment for better or worse, there will be times and phases you go through where you might even forget why you fell in love with that person in the first place THATS when the commitment comes into play. And you push through those times to come out the other side with a deeper understanding of true love. Its how marriages last 50+ years... This idea that you someone is "Meant to be" or they are the "One" is a load of romantic BS. Love is a choice that we make, because when things stop being perfect, when they honey moon phase is over there has to be something stronger. But you are right I think about her being a selfish person in this instance. However, we all make mistakes and loose our way at times. Were only human, just because she is forsaking her vows at the moment doesn't mean I should. If you make a mistake and break a vow, purposefully or inadvertently it doesn't void it. or maybe thats just romantic BS too...


You encouraged your wife to have sex with other men and tell you about it, and are now surprised she fell in love with another man? Your "marriage" was just a convenience until you or she found someone you both felt worthy enough to be exclusive for. 

Why don't you just find your own woman worthy of giving yourself only to her? It's obviously too late for this one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

While you might not understand what she did. The fact is that it happens. It if far more likely to fall in love with a person she's having sex with. Why? Because the feeling of love is caused by brain chemistry. The brain creates and uses a lot of dopamine, oxytocin and other chemicals when we are in love. Sex exsentuates this production and uptake. Dopamine creates desire and makes a person feel very good. Oxytocin creates a bond. That mix is what we experience as love. She fell in love with the man she was with who case causing her to create all those feel good chemicals. She was away from you so this other guy got a lot of her time.. in and out of bed. And you cheered her on to do it.

There is a small chance that at some point she will take up. Usually that's about 18-24 months out. Why? Because that's when the crazy infatuation love stops. It stops because the brain slows down the use of all those feel good and bonding chemicals.

This is why most prefer monogamous marriage. Makes this sort of thing less likely to happen.

There is a book that might help you: "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It will explain a lot.

In the book it talks about Plan A and Plan B. You have already done Plan A. So when that does not work, you go into Plan B. Plan B is what you happen to be doing right now. Little to no contact with her. Basically in Plan B you can wait for her until your love for her runs out. And it will run out at some point if she never comes back. There are links to Plan A and Plan B in my signature block below.

.


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## lonewarrior (Jan 6, 2016)

I am not sure how helpful my insight will be, but I just wanted to tell you that I know exactly how you feel. I seriously do. 
My H just left me for another woman who he worked with. Said that things seemed "more natural" with her. He says he doesn't ever want to lose me as his best friend, that maybe he has been out of love with me for a while but he will always love me. I know how that pain feels, trust me. I did the pleading and begging in the days before he made the choice of choosing her, in the days where he was confused on what to do. We have had many talks on how I think feelings are something that you DECIDE to invest in, you decide who to put your feelings towards, who to spend time with. He disagrees. 

I can say from my perspective, its as if he is in this weird place and he is justifying all things that he is doing to feel okay about it. I could speculate that your W may just be trying to convince herself of how she "feels" about you to make her choices seem okay. But I'm not her, nor am I my H, so really I have no idea! 

I guess my advice to you, is to keep the NC going. Do not be her friend right now, do not completely act like a ****, but don't be her friend. If you are, she will be having her cake and eating it too. But you also kind of need to base how cold you are towards her based on the type of person she is. For example, if I were to go completely cold towards my H, then he would take that so literally and assume I genuinely hate him and he would back off, which I clearly don't want. 

If you believe in marriage, you fight for your marriage! 

I know this is hard, this is still new for me to be dealing with and I have ****ty days, but you have to focus on you. Be strong, be you on your own. Either she will see this and want back in your life, or she will truly be happy with this other guy. Either way, your end goal should be to come out of this a better person & you will! Either alone, or with her. But you will be better! (I need to constantly remind myself of this)


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## Craig Foster (Jan 11, 2016)

lonewarrior: It sounds like you and me are in the same frame of mind. Im sure you deal with the same thought...how could you ever consider that person your friend after that betrayal. What type of friendship would that be? One where you have zero respect for the other person for just walking away... I feel she is justifying and rationalizing everything to the max. They say time heals all wounds but it cant remove the knife they put in our heart, only they can do that by trying to do the right thing...if it still doesn't work out...then maybe you can be friends without a loss of all respect... My love will likely never run out, im just not that type of person. I dont know how to cut someone out of my life who has helped me get to where I am or been there for me. Thus I don't know how she can.... She says things like she has found her purest love with him, but I keep thinking, What kind of "love" would cause you to stab your husband and best friend in the heart. I know in my heart that a true and pure love will never require you to break someone you care about....

EleGirl: Thanks for the book recommendation I will take a look.

Evinrude58: Allow me to introduce you to another perspective of sexuality. I know a lot of people cant understand how someone could be a part of such a thing. Most people couldn't fathom the thought of seeing their SO with another person and usually this is based in jealousy which stems from being insecure. Not always but a lot of the time. On the other side of the fence it can be looked at as a sign of immense trust and love, we are animals, we like sex. Many people get married and end up cheating because they cant be honest about their sexuality or they feel trapped, we, being sexual people talked about all our fantasies, discussed them at length and instead of just accepting that we would never get to experience them decided to experience them together. Its not about "convenience" or "waiting for the right person you want to be monogamous with" Its about trust, its about not owning the other person and wanting them to indulge in their sexuality. We were excited that we would get to experience these things together, and if she or i had decided to stop. we would have been more than ok being monogamous with each other which is what should have happened. As unconventional as it is we had a different set of rules. Like not putting yourself in a position if feelings were involved. I have always been a monogamous person with a heightened sexual side so it was exciting to think that we might get to explore these things together even bring us closer. Now I see how foolish it was but I was blind to it then, hindsight and all that. But do you think I would have ever considered such a thing had I not believed I could trust this other person with my life? So the betrayal runs extra deep for me. as foolish as it may sound to others. And as foolhardy as it was... but i still believe marriage and love should be made of sterner stuff. 

aine: Your right, I am to blame. I take full responsibility for it. I desperately want to make it right. Didn't she, as a participant in this marriage also have an obligation to say she wanted to make a change and reinforce it? Old habits die hard and you cant just make a change over night it has to be worked on talked about and reinforced by both. Instead she just resigned herself to thinking I would resent her if she ever brought it up i guess...something I cant understand because im not the type of person who holds onto resentment...sure I might have been disappointed at first but I love her more than anything...we would have worked through it together....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Craig Foster said:


> aine: Your right, I am to blame. I take full responsibility for it. I desperately want to make it right. *Didn't she, as a participant in this marriage also have an obligation to say she wanted to make a change and reinforce it? * Old habits die hard and you cant just make a change over night it has to be worked on talked about and reinforced by both. Instead she just resigned herself to thinking I would resent her if she ever brought it up i guess...something I cant understand because im not the type of person who holds onto resentment...sure I might have been disappointed at first but I love her more than anything...we would have worked through it together....


I do think that your wife has responsibility/blame for her part is participating in something that she now says she did not want to participate in.

If it bothered her, she should have said so. It is not your fault if she did not.

Now someone could argue that the pressure you put on her made her feel like she had to do it. But she is an adult and thus responsible for what she does. 

My bet is that this new guy is not into swinging and in talking with him she is now influence to look at it differently now and blaming you. So perhaps, she is a person who is easily influenced by others. A person like that does not make a good life partner.


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