# Hi new member



## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

My name is Mark. Been married 11 years and looking to spice my sexual relationship up with my wife. She has recently taken up a gym and is looking amazing. I have made pushes for more sexual intimacy but not having a lot of luck. We both took the languages of love test and I realized that we are opposite. She is acts of service and I’m physical touch. Physical touch was a 1 on her test. I have stepped up my game. Started doing the dishes, doing the laundry, buying her gifts. We lead a good life style and she doesn’t have to work. My work is light depending on the time of year but nothing like 95 percent of people. We have plenty of time to be sexual. I recently planned a night for her. Opened a bottle of wine, drew her a bath with rose peddles, and had her a surprise in the closet. Bought 10 dresses online for her to try on. Oh yeah. I wrote her a dirty letter of exactly how I saw the night going and exactly what I was going to do to her. 
She thanked me for the dresses but didn’t really want to try any of them on. She just wanted to have sex and get on with the night and not really in a hot way. 
Come to find out later she doesn’t like ANY kind of dirty talk. Mentioned on the phone today if she was wearing underwear and she almost got mad. 
We have sex 3 times a month and I’m not asking for a lot. Just want to push things a little and be more sexual. Do it 4-5 times a month. 
She is always direct - let’s do it and then let’s not talk about it. That’s so frustrating to me. I want to know what makes her happy. I want to please my wife that’s why I try and seek out things she wants/needs and buy her gifts or do the dishes for her. I have been shaking things up for 6-8 months and it just seems to bug her. 
I started taking to someone a couple months back and he asked that she come. She went once by herself and once with us together. He said that we don’t have problems like most of the people he sees. 
Me - took me a while to believe that she loved me. I was doing all these things thinking I would get more appreciation and I didn’t get anything more than I have ever gotten. So I thought she was cheating but she wasn’t. She is just not that into sex. I read articles and watched videos on how to pleasure her better and I don’t believe that’s the issue. 
Her - we have been married for 11 years why do things have to change? She can’t get past this. 
We have 3 kids and started our first year into our marriage. She was a virgin and I was not very sexually active. So I want to be closer to my wife sexually and personally. The Theorpist even said that he has never had anyone so uncomfortable talking about sex as my wife. She has since stopped going and said she wouldn’t go any longer but says I need to go so I can find my happiness. 
This has been going on so long I have anxiety about sex. I just look forward to it so much one or two times I have lost my erection during sex and we just stop. That’s my one experience for the week. Have to wait again for the next week. 
Not sure my wife is asexual but I don’t believe she pleasures herself or has any sexual thoughts. She is almost turned off when I try and flirt. Heck I don’t even know how to turn her on to start sex. I usually have to ask if we can tonight and I never get a yes let’s do it. It’s either maybe or no. Just gives me no self esteem. 
I started to go to the gym when this all started and get in better shape. I am in the best shape of my life so I know it’s not my physical or anything I’m doing around the house. If anything I have been home 2X as much this year as I have been. She just doesn’t like change. She has a hard time giving any physical touch and it’s so frustrating. Still seeing my guy to work out my issues but I just wish she would appreciate me more for all do. I think of her 70 percent of the day and wonder how I can please her. Any thoughts???


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

This is who she is and it won't change accept it or end it. It doesn't matter what you do.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Around the time you got married, was she involved with anyone else maybe, like good friend or with a particular fella?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I would suggest continuing with couple's counselling, perhaps individual counselling, too.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

HonestGuy84 said:


> Come to find out later she doesn’t like ANY kind of dirty talk. Mentioned on the phone today if she was wearing underwear and she almost got mad.
> ....
> She is always direct - let’s do it and then let’s not talk about it.
> ....
> ...


Yes. She has made herself clear. She doesn't like TALKING about sex. So don't do that. No more dirty phone calls or dirty letters. 



> Me - took me a while to believe that she *loved *me. I was doing all these things thinking I would get more *appreciation *and I didn’t get anything more than I have ever gotten.


This is what you need to work on. It's not just about getting more sex, it's feeling loved and appreciated.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

It sounds like a marriage of convenience for her.

Your work and support her, she lives a good lifestyle, she's got 3 kids and all the trappings, and that's enough for her.

It sounds like sex is just another chore for her. Is she being *satisfied*? Do you even know? Not being snarky, it's just that you don't mention anything about her sexually except she wants you to get it over with, so it sounds as though she's not getting much from the experience. And if that's the case, I can see why she's less than enthralled with the whole thing.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*With little recourse, I'm afraid that Marriage Counseling is going to be your only primary option!

Best of luck to you both! *


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Honestguy, 

I have been in your shoes. Your wife and mine have a lot of similarities (also a few major differences). I am almost 19 yrs into my marriage and am still trying to figure out what my wife likes the most. I will encourage you to keep trying to learn what she might like. 

She is clearly letting you know that sex is just not that important to her. As someone else pointed out she might see it as a chore (my wife used to feel this way and used that exact word) that she needs to do. You need to decide how you feel about your wife's interest level and the way she treats the topic. My wife refused to get marriage counseling too.

When she asks why things need to change when you are 11 years into your relationship, you should explain that you have learned things and have changed in the last 11 years. You could explain that intimacy with her is more important to you know then it was when you got married (if this applies). You need to find your own words and be able to answer that question for her.

I mostly just wanted to let you know that you are not alone and others have gone through something very similar.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I think MC with a sex therapist would be helpful for both of you. You could use yourself as the excuse if it would motivate her. Does she have a religious background that might interfere with her comfort? She is naive otherwise?

Good luck in your efforts!


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

I know that this sounds really mean. but at the end of the day perhaps you could approach her with the possibility of having your needs met outside the relationship since she is not interested.
Perhaps then she will realize that you are very serious about wanting to connect emotionally (physically) with her.

Not the most popular thought, but in the long run may be one of the only answers vs divorce.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I noticed a couple things in your post and it seems to be a common theme with a lot of guys in your position. 

You are under the impression that you have “earned” her desire by doing xyz and blah blah blah. 

As a man myself I understand how this can be somewhat of an easy trap to fall into. The thing about it is that it really doesn’t work like that, at least when it comes to out right sexual desire. Doing all those things can indeed make you good domestic material for your wife but it won’t wet her panties. 

The more you bend and contort your own self the more you place her own value above yours. You have to be able to respect yourself enough to ......make her wander in her mind a little.

A woman who by all means knows that she has her man under full control, fully chained and going nowhere......is married to a man she doesn’t want to have thrilling sex with.

It’s not a game, a ploy or evil plot. It just one of those general laws of attraction that play out more times than not.

A woman will take all the power in the relationship if your willing to give it to her, but it isn’t the best thing for her or yourself.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> It sounds like a marriage of convenience for her.
> 
> Your work and support her, she lives a good lifestyle, she's got 3 kids and all the trappings, and that's enough for her.
> 
> It sounds like sex is just another chore for her. Is she being *satisfied*? Do you even know? Not being snarky, it's just that you don't mention anything about her sexually except she wants you to get it over with, so it sounds as though she's not getting much from the experience. And if that's the case, I can see why she's less than enthralled with the whole thing.


I brought this up one night if sex was satisfying for her. Her explanation was “ is my Orgasm not enough for you”. I didn’t know how to reply. She always said when we went to therapy that she was happy and all of her answers were I’m happy with the way things are/were. She just hates change.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> I noticed a couple things in your post and it seems to be a common theme with a lot of guys in your position.
> 
> You are under the impression that you have “earned” her desire by doing xyz and blah blah blah.
> 
> ...



So your suggestion is??? Give up? Don’t care? Get divorced? Not sure I can do any of those. I just want us to care for each other better.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

aquarius1 said:


> I know that this sounds really mean. but at the end of the day perhaps you could approach her with the possibility of having your needs met outside the relationship since she is not interested.
> Perhaps then she will realize that you are very serious about wanting to connect emotionally (physically) with her.
> 
> Not the most popular thought, but in the long run may be one of the only answers vs divorce.


Not really an option. Not something I believe in. Don’t believe in divorce either. Don’t really believe we are that far off I’m just tired of the whole marry go round and not understanding her love.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

sunsetmist said:


> I think MC with a sex therapist would be helpful for both of you. You could use yourself as the excuse if it would motivate her. Does she have a religious background that might interfere with her comfort? She is naive otherwise?
> 
> Good luck in your efforts!



Not sure she is comfortable talking about sex at all. Just believe she is borderline asexual. Not sure she has ever pleasures herself.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> I would suggest continuing with couple's counselling, perhaps individual counselling, too.



I am. I went today. She doesn’t like going. Says she isn’t the broken one. I do believe she will go back and my guy says she will need to get involved in the future to fill in the blanks that we have.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

leftfield said:


> Honestguy,
> 
> I have been in your shoes. Your wife and mine have a lot of similarities (also a few major differences). I am almost 19 yrs into my marriage and am still trying to figure out what my wife likes the most. I will encourage you to keep trying to learn what she might like.
> 
> ...


So far this has been the most helpful and encouraging. I have been depressed because I have changed and put so much effort into my relationship to feel like I’m getting nothing back. It’s been a really bad last 7 months. She feels like she is waking on egg shells (her words) because I get so emotional about things. All I want is for us to know and to communicate better. It’s not all about sex. I just took that on as one of the improvements. Just feel like I provide this great life for her and I feel empty inside. Theorpist says I need to focus on the positive improvement that she is giving because she has to get over the fact that I have changed and she will have to change/adapt. 

What was your experience? How were you able to get into wife’s mind and break open her shell a little? I want to know what turns her on what do I do that makes her happy. Physical touch and words of affirmation are my top two love languages and they are her last two.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I am glad you are seeing a therapist. Are you also on meds? You sound quite depressed and just plain tired of the status quo. Love languages do not need to be the same--you just have to recognize what your significant other needs. She needs to respond similarly to your needs.

Her questioning your emotions and talking about walking on egg shells run counter to your need for affirmation. Is she ever a warm, caring, loving helpmate? Her shell is an apt and interesting description. Is she so self-contained that she doesn't know how to share her life?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

HonestGuy84 said:


> So far this has been the most helpful and encouraging. *I have been depressed because I have changed and put so much effort into my relationship to feel like I’m getting nothing back.* It’s been a really bad last 7 months. She feels like she is waking on egg shells (her words) because I get so emotional about things. All I want is for us to know and to communicate better. It’s not all about sex. I just took that on as one of the improvements. Just feel like I provide this great life for her and I feel empty inside. Theorpist says I need to focus on the positive improvement that she is giving because she has to get over the fact that I have changed and she will have to change/adapt.
> 
> What was your experience? How were you able to get into wife’s mind and break open her shell a little? I want to know what turns her on what do I do that makes her happy. Physical touch and words of affirmation are my top two love languages and they are her last two.


You need to be careful with the part I have bolded. What I mean is; you can make changes and put effort into the relationship, and you should because this is a good thing and it makes you a better person. The problem is when you have expectations of your wife. Your wife does not have to give anything back, she does not have to change, and she does not owe you anything for your effort. Having said that; I believe in a good relationship a loving spouse would recognize your effort and make some effort. Do what you can to make it easy for her to work with you on this because these two statements need to change; 'walking on egg shells' and 'I get so emotional'. Find a way to make it easier for her to 'walk around you' and eliminate the emotions as much as possible. Doing these two thing should help improve your communication as well. From experience I can tell you that you will still have times when communication is difficult, even years after getting through the worst of it.

I am not sure how much my experience will help you because of the differences in our situations. For example, touch is my primary love language, it is also my wife's primary love language. On the other hand you and your wife have completely different love languages. I can tell you that I also felt 'depressed' about the situation on multiple occasion. I cycled through that about every 6 month for 3-4 years, then we would talk and things would improve for a few months and then slowly slide back into the normal. Nothing really improved until my wife finally decided that she needed/ wanted to make changes. When people say that someone can not really change for you, they can only change when they decide they want to, they are telling you the truth. Your wife will not be able to make lasting changes until she wants to and she may never want to. You need to accept that you have no control over what she does, she gets to make up her own mind about what she will do.

Your only focus should be on improving yourself and becoming the best husband you can be. Part of that is to clearly express to your wife what you need from the relationship, but to do so with out including the emotions (there is a time for emotions, like when you going through the grieving process). If she meets your needs or not is up to her. If she decides not to meet your needs, then you will have to decide how that affects your relationship.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

HonestGuy84 said:


> Not really an option. Not something I believe in. Don’t believe in divorce either. Don’t really believe we are that far off I’m just tired of the whole marry go round and not understanding her love.


Problem is you are not giving yourself a lot of options.
You are wishing that she would change, and she won't at this point. 
I think it may take something drastic (like standing up for your needs),
If you are not willing to risk something, then you may have to just shelve your complaints and live with it. Sorry.
Why should she change/risk? She has nothing to lose at this point. 
She doesn't have to to go to counselling and you just have to accept it.
If you think that's ok, then read up on a poster named In Absentia. After 30+ years is finally divorcing because his wife has said that sex is off the table and he just needs to get used to it. So he chose not to.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

My thoughts to your post will be inside your post in blue.


HonestGuy84 said:


> My name is Mark. Been married 11 years and looking to spice my sexual relationship up with my wife. She has recently taken up a gym and is looking amazing. I have made pushes for more sexual intimacy but not having a lot of luck. We both took the languages of love test and I realized that we are opposite. She is acts of service and I’m physical touch. Physical touch was a 1 on her test.
> 
> I was wondering what "physical touch" means to you. Do you hold hands, put your arms around each other, sit next to each other, touching, lean on each other, peck each other on the lips or cheek, hug, etc. or does she never want to be touched so you aren't ever touched at all?
> 
> ...


Another thought is that she may be all "touched out" having 3 small children. That happened to me. 
I had 4 that were 7 years old and under. Until the youngest was 2 (weaned from breast feeding) I felt all touched out. 
Someone was always wanting to sit on my lap, lay on me, suck on me, etc. I loved my children, but my body became 
everyone else's, including my husbands. Ask her if she feels that way.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Mr. Married is on to something. You must drop the beta act of desperation and expectation. If you don't then get used to the fact that your wife just isn't that into you.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

Adelais said:


> My thoughts to your post will be inside your post in blue.
> 
> 
> HonestGuy84 said:
> ...


Thanks you. This is a lot to digest. Feel like I’m always in a catch 22. Can’t talk about it or she gets mad. If I don’t talk about it I get mad and upset and eventually boil over. Just a lot to go through. I know she loved me. Been down that road she just doesn’t know how to love me. She can’t get over the fact that evolving. I’m going to hold on to hope that she will eventually want to evolve with me. It may take some tough love at some point for her to realize but I’m not to that point yet.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

HonestGuy84 said:


> Adelais said:
> 
> 
> > My thoughts to your post will be inside your post in blue.
> ...



To everyone. - we have had sex 3 times a month our whole married life. I’m not asking for 6. I’m just trying to spice things up and stretch things out to 4. Don’t want it to sound like I want a lot. 

What are other married sex life like?


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

leftfield said:


> HonestGuy84 said:
> 
> 
> > So far this has been the most helpful and encouraging. *I have been depressed because I have changed and put so much effort into my relationship to feel like I’m getting nothing back.* It’s been a really bad last 7 months. She feels like she is waking on egg shells (her words) because I get so emotional about things. All I want is for us to know and to communicate better. It’s not all about sex. I just took that on as one of the improvements. Just feel like I provide this great life for her and I feel empty inside. Theorpist says I need to focus on the positive improvement that she is giving because she has to get over the fact that I have changed and she will have to change/adapt.
> ...


Love your post and your words. My Theorpist mentions some of this but you put it so eloquently. Appreciate so much your prospective and this helps a lot. 
I am going to keep doing me and at some Point I will have to ask her to talk to someone / change / or leave. I seem so far away from leaving and that’s not on my mind because I know deep down she will change I just don’t know how long it will take.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

To answer your question, 3-4 times a week.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I'm wondering if your wife is on birth control pills or any form of birth control that deliver the same types of hormones as the pills? Those hormones kill a woman's sex drive, so that might explain things.

I'm also wondering if she enjoys having sex. I know you try to please her, and I know she told you that she orgasms, but there's more involved. Sometimes (a lot of times, actually) women orgasm by a certain way, but they don't enjoy the other aspects of the session (I'll explain what I mean if you want me to). So, I'm wondering how does she behave during intercourse? Is it during intercourse that she orgasms, or does she orgasm before intercourse? I think "I don't like change" is just an excuse. We women formulate all kinds of excuses to avoid doing what we don't want to do. But generally, people don't avoid doing what they enjoy doing. I'm going to ask you to read *my response here* and apply those techniques the next time you and she have sex. I don't know if you need this, so it's only a suggestion. Try it and see if you notice a difference in the way she responds and if she becomes more willing to increase the frequency. Tweak the methods according to her responses and her preferences.

I would say you are pressuring her too much. Where sex is concerned, women don't like to feel pressured into it. The more you talk about it, the more you think you can do things to make her want to have sex, the more you flirt with her, the more you want her to go to marriage counseling, all these things you are doing to get her to have sex with you more often, she knows that is your motive, and she doesn't appreciate you pressuring her like that. Even if she wanted to have sex more often, you pressuring her is only turning her off and making her more repulsed by the idea of sex with you. And you're making yourself disgusting to her.

I really wouldn't like some of the things you say. It appears you have the wrong attitude about marriage and your wife. One is that you have changed, and so you expect her to change. You want more, so you expect her to give it to you. You have been "shaking things up" and trying to make her go along with your new program. She doesn't like change, but you keep trying to make her change. I really think you have the wrong attitude. Stop thinking you can earn sex. You can't think it a good idea to buy sex from your wife. She's not a prostitute. And stop thinking she owes it to you to change. This is your thing. Not hers and it doesn't have to be hers.

But I do think you have a very healthy attitude as far as pleasing her and wanting her to be happy (but if it's just so you can get sex, then it's not a healthy attitude.) You think of her happiness and do things to make her happy (just stop thinking that doing the dishes is for HER because it's really for you. You can't buy a lawnmower and a drill and call them her birthday present). She should feel the same about you and do the same for you. I'm not saying she's terrible if she doesn't. I'm just saying both parties should understand that each other and the relationship should be their first priority, and they have to nurture it. She doesn't know that, so she needs to learn it. But you can't be the one to teach her or discuss with her. It has to come from someone else.

I have heard of some guys (only a few, so don't get your hopes up) having success after their wife reads this site, *The Forgiven Wife*. The site is Christian-based and I don't know if your wife is a religious woman, but the concepts are universal. There are lots of articles and resources, so there may be something that appeals to your wife's heart. It's certainly worth a try. But since you know she doesn't like talking about sex, do not try to discuss this site with her. When you present it to her, say something like "I'm not trying to pressure you. I want to strengthen our bond as a married couple and have a stronger connection. I will do what you need me to do to make you feel loved, so please tell me what I can do. For me to feel loved, I am asking you to read this blog site." Whatever you say, please say it to her gently and lovingly.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Just so you know, the marriage counselor you selected is terrible. I know you had no way of knowing that. It was stupid of him to get her in his office wanting her to start talking about sex right off the bat like that. He should have better methods than that, such as teaching the concepts of marriage, helping each partner understand the importance of strengthening the marriage, and teaching them how to create a closer connection and loving bond. But no, the first time she's in his office with you, and he tries to make her talk about sex. Just the dumbest thing I ever heard. I suspect it's what you have been complaining to him about, so, being a man and all, he set out to get you what you want. Again, just the dumbest thing I ever heard. He's not a marriage counselor. Anyone with the proper credentials to be a marriage counselor would not have done that. It also tells me he has no idea of how these things work. If he were a legitimate marriage counselor, he would be familiar with your situation and know how to handle it. But no, he's just a counselor who decided to claim he knows how to counsel married couples. It's not the same. Individual counselors usually make for terrible marriage counselors because they try to counsel couples in the same manner they counsel individuals, but that's not the way it goes. 

Your wife knew not to go back to him, and she was wise to refuse. Please don't ask her again. In fact, if you want to earn points in respect from your wife, you will apologize to her for him being so awful. You should stop going to him too. If you want to continue counseling, please find someone else.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

It really doesn't matter how much sex others are getting, what matters is if you and your wife are on the same page and happy. Some posters here have sex multiple times a day, others a few times a week, to once a month and less, if they and their spouse are happy, then it is their good "normal."

You really need to get some books about marriage and read them out loud with your wife at night together. Serously. You both need to hear from other sources and have accountablilty to each other that you've heard and are seriously considering other ideas to "grow" your marriage.

Have you looked into the books I've suggested?

Add His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters both by Willard Harley to your book pile. These books will all open up the conversation of what is going on in your marriage, from both your and your wife's perspective.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

Adelais said:


> It really doesn't matter how much sex others are getting, what matters is if you and your wife are on the same page and happy. Some posters here have sex multiple times a day, others a few times a week, to once a month and less, if they and their spouse are happy, then it is their good "normal."
> 
> You really need to get some books about marriage and read them out loud with your wife at night together. Serously. You both need to hear from other sources and have accountablilty to each other that you've heard and are seriously considering other ideas to "grow" your marriage.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I like this recommendation. Winter is here. Good time to be together in bed and grab a book.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

StarFires said:


> I'm wondering if your wife is on birth control pills or any form of birth control that deliver the same types of hormones as the pills? Those hormones kill a woman's sex drive, so that might explain things.
> 
> I'm also wondering if she enjoys having sex. I know you try to please her, and I know she told you that she orgasms, but there's more involved. Sometimes (a lot of times, actually) women orgasm by a certain way, but they don't enjoy the other aspects of the session (I'll explain what I mean if you want me to). So, I'm wondering how does she behave during intercourse? Is it during intercourse that she orgasms, or does she orgasm before intercourse? I think "I don't like change" is just an excuse. We women formulate all kinds of excuses to avoid doing what we don't want to do. But generally, people don't avoid doing what they enjoy doing. I'm going to ask you to read *my response here* and apply those techniques the next time you and she have sex. I don't know if you need this, so it's only a suggestion. Try it and see if you notice a difference in the way she responds and if she becomes more willing to increase the frequency. Tweak the methods according to her responses and her preferences.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the good words. Will take this into consideration. Can’t force someone to love you. That’s just hard for me to grind into my head...


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

StarFires said:


> Just so you know, the marriage counselor you selected is terrible. I know you had no way of knowing that. It was stupid of him to get her in his office wanting her to start talking about sex right off the bat like that. He should have better methods than that, such as teaching the concepts of marriage, helping each partner understand the importance of strengthening the marriage, and teaching them how to create a closer connection and loving bond. But no, the first time she's in his office with you, and he tries to make her talk about sex. Just the dumbest thing I ever heard. I suspect it's what you have been complaining to him about, so, being a man and all, he set out to get you what you want. Again, just the dumbest thing I ever heard. He's not a marriage counselor. Anyone with the proper credentials to be a marriage counselor would not have done that. It also tells me he has no idea of how these things work. If he were a legitimate marriage counselor, he would be familiar with your situation and know how to handle it. But no, he's just a counselor who decided to claim he knows how to counsel married couples. It's not the same. Individual counselors usually make for terrible marriage counselors because they try to counsel couples in the same manner they counsel individuals, but that's not the way it goes.
> 
> Your wife knew not to go back to him, and she was wise to refuse. Please don't ask her again. In fact, if you want to earn points in respect from your wife, you will apologize to her for him being so awful. You should stop going to him too. If you want to continue counseling, please find someone else.



There was way more to our sessions than just this. He barely touched the surface in asking about sex and it was not on the first session. He danced around the topic trying to feel her out and didn’t get anywhere. That’s the short version.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

HG:

Your problem is twofold, and they both fall squarely on your shoulders.

One, you are operating under a flawed premise of giving to get.

Two, you believe that increasing the thermostat of your relationship will improve things.

When you combine the two, it is a perfect recipe for nasty resentment...which you are seeing first hand.

I would suggest you do the opposite in both accounts.

Give only because you want to, and only when you want to, with no expectation of a return. 

Then, lower the thermostat. Do less for her. No rose petals. No grandiose gestures. Some nights when she needs to vent or needs an act of service, tell her, "No. I don't feel like it tonight." Be out more. Take two or three nights a week and go pursue your hobbies. Find your happiness away from your wife. 

This will not get your wife to "step up". I don't know that there is anything that can lead to that. But it will at least lead to reducing your resentment towards her.

In some cases, your reduction of the marital thermostat can lead to improvement from the other spouse...but it is rare...and it should be more of an unintended consequence rather than the main intention. 

Lastly, you need to accept that this is who she is. If you can't accept that, do both of yourselves a favor and end the marriage. 



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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> HG:
> 
> Your problem is twofold, and they both fall squarely on your shoulders.
> 
> ...


Everything Farsidejunky said is great. Especially the bolded part. It took me a long time to accept my wife for who she is. After that it took me long time to accept me for who I was. It only took a couple of months to realize that my wife and I were not compatible. Then we looked at the end of our marriage and contemplated dissolving it. At that point my wife suddenly became interested in marriage counseling, but I was done and told her that ship had sailed. 

I have already shared to much, my wife does not really like me to share the details, but I will tell you that looking at the end of our marriage was the spark that started her changing.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

HonestGuy84 said:


> Thank you for the good words. Will take this into consideration. Can’t force someone to love you. That’s just hard for me to grind into my head...


You took my words out of context, and it's possible, if not probable, you take your wife's feelings out of context too. Not having sex with you more often does not mean she doesn't love you. That seems to be the way a lot of men think of it, but it's unfair to her to sum her feelings up like that. The situation with her is not nearly so neatly or so tragically summed up.



HonestGuy84 said:


> There was way more to our sessions than just this. He barely touched the surface in asking about sex and it was not on the first session. He danced around the topic trying to feel her out and didn’t get anywhere. That’s the short version.


I thought you said she saw him by herself first and then the session you described was the first session with you, right?

But my point was that he was trying to get her to talk about sex. Beating around the bush about it is the same thing, and she knew what he was aiming at. People have a tendency to think others are too stupid to know what they are up to, but he's not slick as he thinks, and I'm not going to assume your wife is stupid. You're telling me he danced around the topic. Well, you knew what he was doing - dancing around the topic of sex and trying to get her to participate. Your wife knew what he was doing too. So my point stands if you will try to receive it.

You're being very closed-minded.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> HG:
> 
> Your problem is twofold, and they both fall squarely on your shoulders.
> 
> ...


I have something similar written in my notes to try and accomplish. To try and start doing less. Love the tip about getting out. Will do my best to try and plan more of this to help me not think of things. Get back to the old me. The me I can remember. 
Just so hard to think that she wouldn’t like this me more. But mission failed...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

aquarius1 said:


> I know that this sounds really mean. but at the end of the day perhaps you could approach her with the possibility of having your needs met outside the relationship since she is not interested.
> Perhaps then she will realize that you are very serious about wanting to connect emotionally (physically) with her.
> 
> Not the most popular thought, but in the long run may be one of the only answers vs divorce.


Threatening her with cheating is a terrible idea. IT will make things far worse.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Threatening her with cheating is a terrible idea. IT will make things far worse.


Read it again. Im suggesting an open relationship. Not cheating.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

HonestGuy84 said:


> I have something similar written in my notes to try and accomplish. To try and start doing less. Love the tip about getting out. Will do my best to try and plan more of this to help me not think of things. Get back to the old me. The me I can remember.
> Just so hard to think that she wouldn’t like this me more. But mission failed...


You changed things for the wrong person.

Stop doing things for her. 

Start doing things for you.

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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

What I wrote before - whether she's on the pill (or other medication), that you might need to step up your game in the bedroom, and that you need to stop pressuring her - all of those still apply. But I've come across an article on that site I linked in my last post. In the past, I read a couple posts written by the author of the site, but I never delved into much more because the premise of the site doesn't apply to me. I read some others today and I think *this article* may help your wife understand herself better and understand you better. Like I said, the things she needs to hear can't come from you, so maybe the articles on that site will give her the message you hope to convey. I hope it helps. Of course, I don't know how you will get her to read them, but good luck.


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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

StarFires said:


> What I wrote before - whether she's on the pill (or other medication), that you might need to step up your game in the bedroom, and that you need to stop pressuring her - all of those still apply. But I've come across an article on that site I linked in my last post. In the past, I read a couple posts written by the author of the site, but I never delved into much more because the premise of the site doesn't apply to me. I read some others today and I think *this article* may help your wife understand herself better and understand you better. Like I said, the things she needs to hear can't come from you, so maybe the articles on that site will give her the message you hope to convey. I hope it helps. Of course, I don't know how you will get her to read them, but good luck.


You hit the nail on the head. Was thinking “how do I get her to read it?” Right when you said it in the last line. I know she wants to work things out but she hasn’t accepted that I want to be more aware of our love and love each other more in and out of the bedroom. 

She said last night- I asked her how do I turn you on? What turns you on? Her response. “I don’t know. I just wake up and want sex that day.” I found this to be extremely difficult. I find that there is nothing I can do to make her feel sexy or turned on. This is really hard to accept and makes me feel like crap.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

HonestGuy84 said:


> You hit the nail on the head. Was thinking “how do I get her to read it?” Right when you said it in the last line. I know she wants to work things out but she hasn’t accepted that I want to be more aware of our love and love each other more in and out of the bedroom.
> 
> She said last night- I asked her how do I turn you on? What turns you on? Her response. “I don’t know. I just wake up and want sex that day.” I found this to be extremely difficult. I find that there is nothing I can do to make her feel sexy or turned on. This is really hard to accept and makes me feel like crap.


First of all, I want you to know it isn't personal. It's actually very common. So it's not something to make you feel like crap although I understand you're asking for her help but she can't help you.

I don't know if you saw my thread here, where I ask for suggestions for subtle ways to initiate sex with my husband. I'm not like your wife in that I don't want to have sex more frequently. It's that I'm not comfortable initiating. Another lady responded who is just like me.

So some of us have some hangups. And some of us just aren't familiar enough with our bodies and sexual selves to know what turns us on or what we need to feel good. We don't know those things until they happen to us. And there's the segment of us who do know those things but are too afraid to express them openly. Like me and that other lady who responded in my thread. We know what we want and we know what we like. But when it comes to initiating, for each of our individual reasons, we're just to inhibited to do it.

See how weird we women are? It really doesn't have anything to do with you although it must be o very frustrating trying to learn what turns your wife on since she's not able to tell you. I've been saying these things for a long time, and all I've gotten from people on this board is a lot of arguments and negative push back. But here you are telling us about wife being exactly that way.

Where you are concerned, you have to learn these things and have to become more skilled without her assistance. As I said before, people don't avoid what they like doing. That's the reason I linked you to my response from another thread of this nature, and I also think that instead of marriage counseling, you could benefit from sex therapy. There are sex therapists and there are some marriage counselors who are also certified in sex therapy. See if you can find one. They would be more adept than this jerk you've been seeing at getting your wife to open up, as well as to help you both discover what turns her on and what could rock her world during sex. Even if you have to go alone, find one and go.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

There is much merit to what @StarFires is saying. Also, the underlying message of not taking it personal is crucial, no matter what you choose to do (and no matter how hard it may be).

It also assumes that you should have both the want and the ability to be emotionally dominant. In other words, you have to be able to do this without getting frustrated, without taking it personally, be willing to keep trying different things because your wife may not have the want or ability to try and figure it out on her own, and simply being willing to lead it...no matter how difficult it (she) may be.

Maybe it would be a good idea for you to try that way first.

I would tell you that I tried it that way for somewhere around six months. With my wife, it didn't work. 

She simply moved the goalposts.

Or just became stubborn.

Or contradicted her words and her actions.

Or...

Or...

Or...

And so on...

At that point, I made a decision. I would no longer be interested nor willing to manage a difficult sub. She could either step up and be a partner with me, or she could become a partner with somebody else.

That is when I reduced the thermostat.

Interestingly enough, it is exactly what led to her stepping up.

The emotionally dominant route has worked for several posters on this site. Maybe give it a spin...and be willing to give it a few months to afford it an opportunity to work.

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## HonestGuy84 (Nov 8, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> There is much merit to what @StarFires is saying. Also, the underlying message of not taking it personal is crucial, no matter what you choose to do (and no matter how hard it may be).
> 
> It also assumes that you should have both the want and the ability to be emotionally dominant. In other words, you have to be able to do this without getting frustrated, without taking it personally, be willing to keep trying different things because your wife may not have the want or ability to try and figure it out on her own, and simply being willing to lead it...no matter how difficult it (she) may be.
> 
> ...



I believe this is the point I am at. I have given it two days so far. Was even rewarded last night by he telling me that “you were really good today”. Or something like that. So I’m trying everything and I am to the point to taking everything down. I have not intentionally touched her In 36 hours which is way out of character for me. Not sure she has noticed but she has asked if I’m “OK” twice today. So not sure where she is at. But not having sex for 12 days is not acceptable for me. She has been on period for the ladder part but still. Been really hard and I voiced that a couple nights ago that her period week is especially hard on me. She can’t get past the point that I have changed. She is stuck on “its never been hard for you before”.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I don't quite understand the fundamental principle behind your last post. What exactly does all of that indicate to you?

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