# my wife shows no affection and recently started openly fantasizing in bed



## Earl 2 (Feb 11, 2015)

Let me start by saying my wife and I get along very well, usually, and really enjoy doing things together. We will spend at least two or three days a week together going on bike rides, skiing, kayaking, dinner dates, and various other things. I think our time spent together is generally very quality time.
My problem is she can never show me any affection. If I try to kiss her all I get is a little peck. If I try to hold her hand she pulls it away within five seconds or so. Recently, I've been asking her to join me on the sectional couch, where there is plenty of room for her to sit, and she almost always responds with "That's ok. I'm good here". She did actually join me a week ago and sat three feet away from me. That felt worse than if she hadn't even made the move. This lack of any kind of physical contact has been bothering me more and more over the last several years and I'm about at the end of my rope. I have mentioned it to her and she makes a feeble attempt for a few days and then it's back to the old routine.
I will say we have always had sex on a regular basis, and while I think we both enjoy it, it sometimes seems too routine. I can't get her to try anything new and it feels like she is only doing it to keep me from nagging her about it. She has also become a very selfish lover, in my opinion. While I would go downtown with her every time if she would agree, she hasn't done the same in over two years. I feel as if she has become a taker and gives back nothing. Her attitude is, "let's get this going, I've got more important things to do". When it's over she goes to the bathroom and then back to the family room or to bed, where she rolls on her side facing away from me. Never once do I hear an "I love You", unless I say it first.
The latest twist and to me the most disturbing, is for the last couple of months she has her eyes closed the ENTIRE time we are having sex. I can't say making love because I don't feel as if she is making love to me. I feel as if she is making love to someone else. I watch her face with her eyes closed and I can only wonder what is going on behind them. We have always had a lot of eye contact and for her to completely shut me out like that is probably the most painful thing I have been through with her because it happens every time, now.
I have mentioned it and that it bothers me and she said it's nothing, she's just closing her eyes. I asked her who she was thinking about and she said "Who would I think about? I don't even know anyone to think about". That is such a BS answer, I can't believe she said it. I realize everyone thinks about someone else at times during sex, but I don't think what is happening is a healthy thing to be doing. Especially for our marriage. 
I don't believe that she has had an affair before and I don't think she is having an emotional affair, either. She works from home an is on the phone in meetings half the day with colleagues from different states, so she isn't physically in contact with anyone during the day. I do believe she may have an infatuation with a coworker, though. She has met most of them while on business trips.
My income has gone down during the last few years due to my company going non-union and my need to accept the cut in pay in order to keep working. She has mentioned that she blames me entirely on our financial struggles to pay for two kids in college and that I am not doing enough to support the family. I have never turned down extra work and rarely spend money on myself. I am starting to feel as if I am not enough of a man in her eyes when she compares her financial struggles to what she perceives her male coworkers financial lives must be like.
As a footnote, she and her co-workers all make over 100k and I am recently retired working for my old company one week per month(as allowed by the union to still collect my pension) and bring in a little over half of her income. I still do side work as often as I can. Until 2008, she only worked two days a week to allow her more time with our children. She somehow forgets that part of our lives.
I think she has a lot of resentment towards me for taking my pension, while she has to still work. The fact of the matter is that with the recent cuts in pay, my pension is the same as working fulltime. So, I figure I can collect it , work 39 hrs/month and do side work and we are ahead of the game, financially. Also I am 57 years old and she is five years younger. I think she believes I shouldn't retire until she can.
Anyhow, my questions are , has anyone else been through this with the fantasizing thing, and what did you do about it?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

It sounds to me that she is simply not attracted to you. It could be that she needs you to make more money than her. It could be she does not respect you for whatever reason. It could be a million other things. I have been married for 23 years. I KNOW that my wife loves me and it would take a MAJOR faux pas on my part to lose her. HOWEVER, that in and of itself does not make her hot for me in bed. 

You need to find a way to become ATTRACTIVE to her. When you've been married for a long time sex sometimes becomes boring and routine.

My wife in particular becomes very anti-sexual when things are secure in our relationship. If I am always dependable, always there for her and the kids, always replacing or repairing things immediately, she seems to slip away into an anti-sexual comfort zone.

However, if I work out, lose weight, go out by myself and have fun by myself to create a little sexual tension, dress impeccably and go out to social functions with my wife where other women talk to me, all of a sudden she ups her game.

Go figure.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I suggest you create some emotional distance between you and your spouse. When you are too emotionally cued into her like this, it only increases your anxiety and decreases her respect.

At the same time, it seems like you are recently being bothered by concerns that she is drifting. Yes, it's true that some women do have a negative response towards their husbands if their ability to provide comes into question...and it already seems like she has some critical perspectives concerning that.

Are you guys truly struggling financially, living paycheck to paycheck? I didn't understand the statement about kids in college...you are currently paying for their tuition, etc?

You also mentioned that you are thinking that she has an infatuation with a coworker. Do you have evidence that she is dialoguing with such a person...or are you just thinking that because she is closing her eyes during intercourse?

My immediate suggestions are, like, I said, create some distance emotionally. Don't crowd your wife emotionally and constantly needle her about things. And, from now on, no more begging your wife for sex or attention; nothing will lower her respect faster than this.

Step back and breathe...and then operate from confidence and decisiveness. Don't let her negativity rattle you...and don't get baited when she tests you. Just be calm and responsive...but not reactionary. Be upfront about your needs...being bold enough to say, "This isn't working for me," instead of approaching your wife from a lower position and hoping she'll throw some attention and some "'tang" your way. I agree with UMP...start working on making yourself more attractive where wife starts coming to you for attention, not the reverse.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Earl 2 said:


> ...My problem is she can never show me any affection. If I try to kiss her all I get is a little peck. If I try to hold her hand she pulls it away within five seconds or so.
> 
> ...This lack of any kind of physical contact has been bothering me more and more over the last several years and I'm about at the end of my rope.
> 
> ...


I think that there are a couple things going on. The first is two marital problems that are resulting in some sexual problems.

First things first. One of the hardest things to do from what I am learning and from what my mentors have told me is how to "retire with grace and not harm your marriage" 

For a man retiring (even if you work part time) is a major change in your life. I have been warned about making sure I don't become too co-dependent on my wife, too clingy, to demanding of her time as a substitute for all the things I did at work. I have also been warned that many wives have their own ideas of what a man will do when he retires. I have heard countless stories about wives telling their husbands when the hell are you going to paint the house, remodel the kitchen, clean out the garage, do all the household chores. And husbands whose idea of retirement is that the wife will continue to do everything she has been doing and he can then go fishing all day, go hiking with all his free time, spend money on rebuilding old cars, etc.

Retirement even if you are still working part time is a major life change and you and your wife probably have expectations. I would wager that her "expectations" of your retirement are not being met. I would also wager that this was something fairly sudden and she may have not been totally on-board with your change in work status. If so, maybe you should spend some time with her talking about how hard it has been for you to adjust and asking her about how hard it has been for her to adjust.

Since she works at home and you have more free time are you interfering with her normal routine? If so maybe that is a source of frustration on her part. It is clear that she isn't thrilled about your being retired. Have you really explored with her her reasons for not being thrilled. Have you explored her fears about her job and her future retirement?

The next issue I see is a financial issue. She may be viewing herself as the principal breadwinner. That could be a heavy load for her shoulders. You said she is concerned about your finances and paying for your children's college education. That could be very heavy emotional load for her and a real libido killer. Have you talked to her about that? Have you talked to your kids (who are at an age of adult responsibility) about that they may need to step up to help finance their college education so as to take some pressure off their mom? 

One of the major problem areas in marriages is finances. It leads to more divorces than most other things.

Finally we get to the sex issue. Your wife is still having regular sex with you despite everything. Count your blessings. Those of us who have experienced sex starved marriges know that things can get far worse. 

My suggestion is to take the fantasizing as a clue and work on the other aspects of your marriage and relationship first. Look closely at yourself and if you are being more clingy and needy of your wife's time. If so, find some hobbies or outlets for your energy that give you and your wife some separate time.

You sound really smart and thoughtful, so I think you will figure out what you need to do. Good luck.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Some suggestions.
How much of your children's college expenses are you and your wife paying? How much are they paying. At your age, you don't have the flexibility to financially recoup an investment in an education for them. Your children do. They should invest in their education now, IMHO. They can get jobs, qualify for scholarships, take loans or go part-time or any combination of the same.

You may be spending too much time with your wife and becoming too dependent on her. Do you have any activities or hobbies of your own? Do you have a group of friends that you do things with? If not, join some groups and get some new interest. You can easily find like minded people to join for activities through Meetup. 

Making money is important. Can you get a regular part-time position? Are there any training courses or college programs that you cam enroll for a 2nd career? Teaching is a good 2nd career and an area of great need. If you have a normal life expectancy, you will live for at the very lest 25 more years. At your level of activity, they will be good active years. You have more years of work in you, more years to be a completely different person. What do you want to be? Take the money that you spend on college for your children and invest some of it in you. 

Cool things with your wife while you work on yourself. I mean take the focus off of what you want from her and think of what you need to do make you strong and self-confident. Look in the mirror- are you looking your best. No grandpa jeans or haircut from 10 years ago. If you want to refresh your look, ask a young man or woman clerk to help you.

Finally, get off your buttinsky and get ta stepin'. Don't ever say retire again. Just saying it will shrink your brain and rattle your toes.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Read Bagdon


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## Sleepsalonefl (Apr 28, 2014)

Earl 2 said:


> She has mentioned that she blames me entirely on our financial struggles to pay for two kids in college and that I am not doing enough to support the family.


^^that right there is your problem. 

Her behavior has the classic signs of unaddressed resentment, and later on in your post you mention you know she resents you for your retirement. I think your are fixating on the wrong thing (fantasizing), and I bet she is telling the truth about not fantasizing during sex. Most likely, and I'm sorry if this is painful, she is closing her eyes because she can't stand you (or having intimacy with you). And she is likely LD too. 

Fix the root of resentment, and you will be well on your way to fixing the sex issues (or at least starting to work on them with hope of change).

Don't fix the resentment, and it will only get worse.

Now, HOW to fix it... That's a much more complex issue, and I think you need one counseling...but make the counseling about addressing her resentment and feelings, not about sexual performance. If she resists counseling it's probably because she expects to get hammered about sex...convince her that instead it's really about addressing her feelings, she shouldn't have a reason to resist.

Also note I'm not saying her resentment is objectively valid (it may be...or maybe not...), but in her mind it is very valid and you won't get anywhere arguing it's not valid for all your reasons (like it's not valid because the period in your life when you supported the household, etc)


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

Earl ,

man .

two things :

-she feels as a sex object .
-she is afraid that any physical touch will lead to sex.

for us marsians , we give love in sex , for venusians they give sex for love.

she is hurt , because she discovered the reality that a man will not love without having sex ; and sex is not important to her .

YES , either she has been LD all the time , or she is temporary down ; her answer " I don't even know anybody " is because her life is empty .

you want to win her :

-see what's satisfy her (affection , ); once she is satisfied she will satisfy you .

if she doesn't she is a selfish ...

the most important thing is that if you keep on pushing her , u will hurt her more and she will resent more ; for her now " WTF i am sleeping with him , yet he wants me to smile!"
she might be right .


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## Earl 2 (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your input.
I don't really know for sure if she is fantasizing, since she obviously doesn't want to talk about it. I do realize that everyone does it at some point occasionally during sex. It's just the thought of my wife doing it all the time, the entire time, that is really annoying and can really deflate my ego, if you know what I mean.
So, let's assume she isn't fantasizing and that it's actually just hidden resentment that she has towards me. Maybe, that's the case.
It does seem ironic to me that she is so resentful when it was her suggestion that I start collecting my pension and then do side work for extra money. The only problem is that a lot of the side work I usually do slows down a little during the coldest few months of the year. I know, I need to find more work that is indoors for the winter.
As far as helping out with household chores, she doesn't really have to do very much of that anymore and I know she appreciates it. She has mentioned on more than one occasion how nice it is to have those tasks already done. 
I guess I don't understand the female mind at all. Today, at her suggestion, we brought the two dogs, a few beers, a couple of soccer chairs and our ice skates and went to an out of the way frozen lake in a local forest preserve and went skating for 2 1/2 hours. We always do things like that and I think we're actually very good friends. That's one of my complaints lately. It sometimes feels as if we are just friends with benefits.
A book I've been reading on marriage mentions that the three cornerstones of a strong marriage are intimacy, passion, and commitment. I do agree with that, and I think she is lacking the passion part of it. I mentioned the book to her and she basically said, " My God, why do you always have to analyze everything?" Needless to say, she doesn't want to read the book. 
Anyhow, I think I am going to try to go as long as I can without mentioning sex or any physical affection. I will also just do my own thing around the house and not hang out as much with her watching tv or whatever and spend more time out in the shop or visiting friends and see what that gets me. I'll still do the chores and job searches but I think I need to appear as if I don't really need to be with her as often. Maybe that will make her appreciate me a little more. Or, maybe she'll just be thinking, " Finally, he's out of my hair!". 
It's really so hard to analyze, because she does often ask if I want to watch one of the certain tv shows I have recorded. And she does ask what I want to do over the weekend for fun.
She has mentioned that she recently started menopause and that obviously can account for some of the issues. She does have a very low sex dive these days and it lately seems as if she just wants to get it over with. As if it's all just too much work. When we were younger, we had sex every day, like most couples probably. Now it's once a week usually, but it's become too routine and I can't get her to try new things. It's just quick foreplay, then her favorite position and then we're done. It's very unsatisfying, to say the least.
I don't know. Are these all signs of menopause? That would mean I have five more years of this, at best. Dear God, please help me!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

This one screams affair to my gut and yet the red flags just are not really all there.

Hope its bagdon II.

Agree read bagdon and pray everyone but me is correct.


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## Earl 2 (Feb 11, 2015)

@ weightlifter, I really don't think it's an affair. I thought a lot about that possibility initially, also. She works from home, she doesn't go out for mysterious reasons at odd hours, she isn't suddenly overly concerned about her looks. I have checked the phone records and there are no texts sent or received from people other than her female friends or our daughters. Also, my oldest daughter told me the other day that my wife referred to me as her soul mate during one of their conversations. I don't see someone saying that if they were having an affair. 
One of my wifes friends husband cheated on her years ago and it was very destructive to the family. The high school age daughters hated their father for years. My wife thought what the husband did was horrible and has never really spoken to him since. My wife has a lot of integrity and I think she would divorce me before she would commit adultery. Now the question is, would she divorce me? I don't think so, at this time. If I had made no changes when she told me she couldn't take my lack of helping out, then maybe she would. 
It's really hard to explain the way she acts. But, my gut doesn't feel that way with her. I have had that feeling with girlfriends in my single days and was right about it, so I know the feeling. I think it's a money issue right now. She is always so stressed about the cost of tuition and can't let it go for long without thinking about it again.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I keep wondering if the roles were reversed and he was the one making 100k and she was making half of that, would he be blaming her for their financial woes. 

Lord only knows how many people have divorced over money issues but if what's really bothering you is she's not real in to it when you have sex, the close your eyes too and pretend it's the lady next door. Maybe if she sees you with your eyes closed and she asks why, tell her that she does the same and since she brought it up she goes first.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Earl. Understand.

I want to be wrong.

I really do.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

You may want to download a free copy of Dr Robert Glover's book *No More Mr Nice Guy* and read it. Don't be put off by the title for it isn't a "become a jerk to attract your wife" kind of book. I think you may find it very beneficial.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Earl 2 said:


> My wife has a lot of integrity and I think she would divorce me before she would commit adultery.


...said virtually every guy who ever caught his wife in an affair.

Having said that, and though the quoted sentence caught my eye as I was scrolling down the page, I've not yet read everything.

But I still felt the need to put that out there.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

10000 years of human evolution have conditioned women to want to be supported by their husbands. Even diehard feminists acknowledge this truth. You lost your rank with your wife when you retired. She does not want to earn more than her husband. 

She's not shallow. All women are this way. Its not fair. Its not right. It just is. 

Get a job. Quit being a house husband or you will lose her. Sorry man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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