# Need Help- Wife Wants to go "Poly" but I don't



## Dan708

Hi everyone, I just found this forum and I hoping to find some good advice here to help me through a very troubling time. 

I am 35 and my wife is 28. We have been together about 10 years and married for 7. She did not date anyone seriously before me and I only had 1 other relationship for about 2 years. 

Last fall she went down to a Texas ranch to learn some training for her career. When she came back, she expressed interest in this idea I had never heard of before-- polyamory. It made me uncomfortable when I thought about with my brain as opposed to anything else. I was mortified at Thanksgiving dinner when my wife asked her parents what made a happy marriage and they discussed several things and then my wife says "... and an open marriage!" Her step mom and dad's eyes almost fell out of their eye sockets. 

A couple months later she goes down again. She was very excited the first time when coming home but less so the second time. 

Fast forward a month or two later. I am helping to remove viruses off my wife's computer when I stumble (maybe more subconsciously looking) across emails between my wife and the guy who ran the camp. My wife talks about kissing another girl in front of this guy for his amusement, to exchanging salacious emails and texts, to telling him that I "can't keep up with" my wife sexually, and that she has a crush on him. I confront my wife and she doesn't deny it but nevertheless kept it a secret. She says she was working with her counselor to figure out how to tell me. Although this guy talks about practicing "polyamory" he is actually still married but with a girlfriend and he cheated on his wife initially. He specifically states in one email that my wife should not tell me because I would probably tell the guy's girlfriend out of spite and get him in trouble. 

Anyway, I never doubted my wife before this but I feel I cannot trust her now. Also, she is texting on her phone a lot more and her internet history shows visiting linkedin pages of people I don't know and she no longer keeps her email open. She also continues to discuss having an open marriage and is constantly reading books like "The New I Do" and other books supporting alternate marriage arrangements. 

She has said that she feels "trapped" by me and wants to "travel the world" and become a traveling consultant and do "adventurous things" all the time. I feel like I am almost married to a single person again. We both work a lot but generally equal amounts. I am the one who is continually picking up after her, cleaning the house, mowing the lawn and doing all the things that need to get done. 

She also said at one point that she wished when we were initially dating that she took a 6 month break so she could date other people. Aside from being hurtful at this point in the game, I think the idea is preposterous. Why look if you are already happy? I compared this idea to telling your employer to hold onto your job for 6 months while you tried out other jobs. No one would find that acceptable. Either you are happy and don't look or you are unhappy and you tell the person that. 

I am not perfect and am working on myself. I also have a hard time sharing intimate details with anyone. Several years ago, I had communicated with other people on the internet... just talking about particular sexual interests and kinks that I was embarrassed to tell my wife. She found out and was hurt but this was never something I acted upon and it was not focused on the individual I was talking to but rather the idea or concept being discussed. We worked through it and I was able to be more open with her about what I needed and have not gone back to those forums. 

I am a very logical person and need reasons so when my wife says she is trapped but can't offer reasons why, it is very frustrating. I really feel she is going down a road she will regret later. One day she suggested I talk to her dad since I am not emotionally close to my own father and I did. He agreed with me about his concern for her new interest and where that might lead. Then she accused me of "triangulating" with him after he shared with her how he didn't agree with her new idea and especially when he said she had been fed a "full plate of BS" 

We are both seeing individual therapists this week and a couples counselor later this week. I will express my concerns there. I believe many things can be worked out but I am not okay with the idea of her sleeping with another man. She says it isn't about sex, especially because the two of us don't have enough. How will she make time for others when she can't for me? (She does say I am still #1 though, whatever that means in the context of polyamory)

I am pretty lost, confused and hurt here, so if you made it this far, thank you for reading and I appreciate any advice anyone can provide.


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## bandit.45

Divorce her.


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## kristin2349

Your wife wants to cheat and live like a single person while maintaining the perks of marriage. She is just trying to call it something else. The fact that she brought it up in front of her parents, along with the e-mails you have found prove she is already cheating, now she is just trying to get you on board. 

There is nothing to save just get out.


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## Marduk

Let her go, man.

You have exactly one shot in keeping her and low odds of success -- letting her go. Without emotion, without breaking down, without sentimentalism. Just say "wife, you obviously need to go and explore life. Marriage is monogamous to me and you knew that going in. Sign the divorce papers and go."

But odds aren't good, and even if she does come back, consider that she may never have been really yours to begin with. You deserve to be with someone that's on the same page as you.


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## Yeswecan

kristin2349 said:


> Your wife wants to cheat and live like a single person while maintaining the perks of marriage. She is just trying to call it something else. The fact that she brought it up in front of her parents, along with the e-mails you have found prove she is already cheating, now she is just trying to get you on board.
> 
> There is nothing to save just get out.


I agree here. Why bother? You will spend the rest of your life in bewildered amazement that the woman you married no longer exists and spending time watching her like a hawk.


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## toonaive

Both Bandit and Kristin are correct. This isnt a problem you can solve, she just wants your acceptance of it. If it rubs you the wrong way. Divorce her asap.


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## ThreeStrikes

She's been with you since she was 18, and probably feels like she missed out on living the single life...like most do in their early 20's.

Or, you are married to a slore.

Regardless, she wants to be single, but still be married to you. 

We call that a cake-eater.

Bandit is right. If you aren't ok with it, and her behavior continues, you'll have to divorce her. Then try to find someone who has similar values as yourself.


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## Married but Happy

If you can't buy into the idea and she is committed to pursuing it, then there is really no option other than divorce. BUT ... This could also be just a passing obsession, which you may help her put behind her if you'll honestly and seriously discuss it with her, approaching it non-judgmentally. Many such ideas can be appealing in the abstract, but are far harder to handle in reality, and the pitfalls and practical problems can become readily apparent when closely examined. If she sees the problems and willing releases the idea, I think your marriage will be much stronger for having dealt with this together. Of course, if she can't or won't let it go, you will have tried and can decide what to do based on facts and what's best for you.


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## happy as a clam

Dan708 said:


> Aside from being hurtful at this point in the game, I think the idea is preposterous. Why look if you are already happy? *I compared this idea to telling your employer to hold onto your job for 6 months while you tried out other jobs. No one would find that acceptable. *


This is brilliant!

You're absolutely right. NO ONE would find this acceptable. And you should not either. It may be time to toss this one back, file for divorce, move along.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I have friends who are poly. It works for a very small percentage of people. Even the friends for whom it seemed to be working are now having serious marriage problems, will probably lead to divorce.

I have no moral objections to polyamory, but I think that it very often ends badly - and that is in cases where both partners agree.

The OP is not interested in a poly relationship. That is absolutely his right. Marriage is assumed monogamous unless otherwise agreed. It is completely reasonable for him to insist on monogamy or divorce.


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## DayOne

> Wife Wants to go "fk around" but I don't




OP, this is what she really needs...



















Show it to her, close it firmly behind her, and move on.


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## ThreeStrikes

Dan708 said:


> I believe many things can be worked out but I am not okay with the idea of* her sleeping with another man*.


There is a very high probability that this has already occurred. Which explains her desire for an open marriage and her hiding of emails/social media/internet activity. 

Oh, and her statement that it's not about the sex is BS. The entire idea of an open marriage is* having sex *with someone who is not your spouse.


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## Happilymarried25

ThreeStrikes said:


> She's been with you since she was 18, and probably feels like she missed out on living the single life...like most do in their early 20's.
> 
> I agree with this, that's why the divorce rate is a lot higher for couples who marry young. Let her go.


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## Icey181

Divorce her, now.

This is a horrible situation to be in, but she is already cheating on you and is clearly looking to sleep around _while benefiting from being married to you_.

The conversation should be a quick one:

"Here are the papers, sign them and my lawyer will get in contact with you."

Done.


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## Icey181

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I have friends who are poly. It works for a very small percentage of people. Even the friends for whom it seemed to be working are now having serious marriage problems, will probably lead to divorce.
> 
> I have no moral objections to polyamory, but I think that it very often ends badly - and that is in cases where both partners agree.


Also, pay attention to this.

I have only known a few "open" relationships, but every single one goes down in flames of emotional turmoil and far too often clear emotional abuse.


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## magnificent27

Leave her and don't let her get you into that lifestyle/world if it is not for you. This is not a compromise issue or small matter that you can work through via counseling. I know from personal experience!

In my first serious relationship-- I was 20 and she was 18-- we were great for each other for years. When she hit 26 she said she never got to explore and wanted an open relationship. I struggled to understand and almost went for it, but ultimately refused. After one year of fights, she cheated and I left the relationship. I wish I left the moment she tried pushing polyamorous relationship ideas on me…

if some couples want that arrangement, then fine. People should be free to live their lives. However, relationships involve two people and if one person is pushed into a lifestyle that they are uncomfortable with and not willing to embrace, why stay in that relationship.

You are 35. Young still. Leave and find a woman who wants just YOU as her exclusive man and doesn’t see you as just a sexual object.


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## Mr.Fisty

She is in the romantic stage of love, the obsessive state where everything about her feelings towards the other man is magical.

It is up to you to uphold your boundaries or not. You do not control her choice but you do have control over what you can live and live without. Whatever choices you make, you have to live with the consequences of those choices whether good or not.

But whatever you do decide, make sure that a fulfilling life is not just predicated on one person, that will cause a level of dependence. With that, there is a fear of separation and it keeps one miserable because they cannot instill any boundaries.

What I learned from an open relationship, it can complicate matters and sometimes the focus can be shifted to one side. Love is not an egalitarian system , but it is up to you if you can live without producing the same levels of romance, lust, and love as another person. You might provide one more than the other but if you want to be number one, it is no guarantee. I can tell you both success and failed stories, but there are so many variables. One marriage I knew failed because the wife fell for another so hard that she divorced her husband, and is now happier with the new person. She simply gets more positive biological reactions. I know of an older couple in their forties that made an open relationship last for over twenty years and are still in the romantic stage of love. They indulge in other partners on occasions for fun but their marriage can be strong without it as well. It is really a risk that you want to take or not.

Anyways, what she is doing is cheating on you. She went against the parameters of what the two of you established.

She showed a lack of boundaries, honesty, and a lack of open communication.

I suggest you detach for the moment and get your life under control as a start. Someone needs to focus on your well-being, and your wife is not the person to do that at the moment, so place your energy into you .

If you know you cannot get into this lifestyle, then leave and heal. Prolonging it will only drag the pain on, not help you heal. Cut your losses and stop investing in this relationship, it is no longer worth the investment if you are going to be miserable. It is better to be miserable at the moment and start healing then be miserable and prolong it because you are afraid of letting go.


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## ConanHub

Well she is already cheating and walking all over you.

You cool with betrayal?

Read up on the 180 and disconnect totally from her. Talk to a lawyer and get your legal and financial ducks in a row.

Then have her served papers at work.

Allow her family and yours to know you are divorcing her for cheating on you.

She might snap out of it at that point.

She needs to know that worshipping her crotch really will cost her everything else.

She needs to have reality slap her hard to see that she can't have you and everything you two have built as well as some f buddies on the side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Here is the 180. It is to help you detach. 

*The 180
*
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


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## Marduk

What's funny is that the dude that is trying to seduce her into the poly lifestyle is married, has a girlfriend, and both of them are in the dark about your wife.

If she's that open about everything, poly rule #1 is that everybody signs up for the deal, openly and willingly.

Meaning, if she's not a hypocrite she should be blowing this thing wide open.


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## Dan708

marduk said:


> What's funny is that the dude that is trying to seduce her into the poly lifestyle is married, has a girlfriend, and both of them are in the dark about your wife.
> 
> If she's that open about everything, poly rule #1 is that everybody signs up for the deal, openly and willingly.
> 
> Meaning, if she's not a hypocrite she should be blowing this thing wide open.


Yes, she STILL does not want to tell the girlfriend (who the guy just had a baby with) about his advances. I personally think that is wrong to the new mom seeing she thinks her boyfriend is with her only. 

Plus that is why he didn't want me to know about it (stated specifically in his emails to my wife)-- because I probably would tell the other woman. I haven't simply because I am not a spiteful person but to me all of this just indicates how wrong it is. 

That being said, I have no evidence of her continuing to talk with this particular guy after we agreed she would cease communication with him. Though the idea of polyamory still persists and is brought up. 

I should add the guy was totally playing her-- telling her how he would help fund a place of her own like his place, supporting her in her work, etc. I think my wife bought into that whole thing hook, line and sinker.

Thanks everyone for all the replies. It seems like most people are saying if she is adamant on being poly and I am not, divorce might be the best option.


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## lifeistooshort

I know one couple that does this. They've been married a long time and the husband's thing is to watch his wife with other men, and she likes it well enough.

They seem to be happy but have told me they don't get involved with younger people because they feel younger people aren't mature enough to understand what they're getting into.....they area little older and prefer people their age. I'm told it only really works when the marriage is strong and both parties are all in, and even then not always.

I know someone else whose husband suggested it and she said no. She walked around resentful for a number of years until she met someone she wanted, then broached the idea to him. He was on board until he realized she had someone lined up but he didn't.....apparently he'd only thought about how he'd get to fvck other women but not about how much easier it would be for his wife to find someone. They ended up scrapping the idea after she had an affair with said guy.....she confessed and they worked it out. I guess they're doing ok now, they've also been married a long time. I have no idea if he's been faithful to her.

I told my husband about both and he said half jokingly if I had any such ideas I might as well get rid of them now, which was fine because I have no interest. I can't imagine this works all that often.

Marriedbuthappy could be right in that it might be a passing thing, so maybe you want to nix the idea and give it a little while to see if it passes. If not you may have to make tougher decisions.


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## MarriedDude

Run. 

She has told you what she wants. BELIEVE HER.

I don't personally understand how anyone could be okay with this...but some are. You do not sound like one of those people. 

Your young. Move on. If she changes her tune, she can try to win you back. If she doesn't, you find yourself a great new woman (there are more good ones than bad ones)...thats a win for you either way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Move on and find someone who is monogamous. She married you before she was ready to get married. 

Another stupid young female who got hit with the wedding psychosis...


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## happyman64

Hey Dan,

The key is to stick to your principles. You can listen to your wife's feelings and wishes but respect yourself.

Because in the end if she continues to act on these feelings of hers she is going to get burned.

And if you agree to this poly relationship and it blows up then it will be all your fault and she will lose respect for you. Even though it was her choice.

I agree if she continues to push that you show her the door.

Are you sure they have not had sex yet? Or that your wife did not have sex with the other woman down there?

Can you tell us what kind of job your wife has that requires training with a bunch of overactive sexual freaks????

HM


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## happyman64

By the way we can send Bandit to the Texas facility where all this crap is going on to infiltrate this group while your wife is there.

Then he can release his super poisonous "Gumbo" recipe on them.

After that your wife will never go back to Texas!!!!

And your problems will be solved.

:grin2:


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## bandit.45

happyman64 said:


> By the way we can send Bandit to the Texas facility where all this crap is going on to infiltrate this group while your wife is there.
> 
> Then he can release his super poisonous "Gumbo" recipe on them.
> 
> After that your wife will never go back to Texas!!!!
> 
> And your problems will be solved.
> 
> :grin2:


No sh!t. My gumbo could kill a honey badger.


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## Dan708

happyman64 said:


> Hey Dan,
> 
> The key is to stick to your principles. You can listen to your wife's feelings and wishes but respect yourself.
> 
> Because in the end if she continues to act on these feelings of hers she is going to get burned.
> 
> And if you agree to this poly relationship and it blows up then it will be all your fault and she will lose respect for you. Even though it was her choice.
> 
> I agree if she continues to push that you show her the door.
> 
> Are you sure they have not had sex yet? Or that your wife did not have sex with the other woman down there?
> 
> Can you tell us what kind of job your wife has that requires training with a bunch of overactive sexual freaks????
> 
> HM


Thanks. While I am not 100% certain that him/her or her/her did not have sex, my wife has denied it. I think most of it was an "emotional affair." I even said I just want to know the truth so I can get tested since who knows what the guy has based off his track record. 

I would love to share more about the job or place but that would potentially be too identifying. I hope that makes sense and it certainly is not to protect the guy. 

I am glad we are going to couples therapy as the last few days have been stressful. She told me today she wants to go clubbing and travel to the Amazon and to Africa! 

I am not sure if we should be distancing ourselves at home (such as sleeping in the same bed or not) because if I try to reconnect more it will make the actual separation (if that occurs) more painful. But if I don't, then it is almost a self fulfilling prophecy.


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## bandit.45

Dan708 said:


> I am glad we are going to couples therapy as the last few days have been stressful. She told me today she wants to go clubbing and travel to the Amazon and to Africa!
> .


O.......M........G........


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## Dan708

I should have added that she now routinely uses the fact I went on Internet forums as a defense. She says her having an emotional affair over text, email and phone with someone she has met in person is equal to what I did going onto forums to talk about things I was embarrassed to share. I am not proud of what I did but this was something we had worked through when it happened and I thought we were beyond it. Besides, I never knew the actual names of the people let alone met them in real life (and it was both men and women that posted and chatted on the forum). Am I wrong for thinking her actions were "worse"? and for that matter I don't even think there is a point compare the two actions. I don't know... just confused right now.


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## DayOne

bandit.45 said:


> O.......M........G........


No shiat! 

'Dan' (which appropriately enough in internet speak often stands for Dumb A$$ed Newbie), I'm going to be as clear as possible here, in the forlorn hope you listen.

You're not confused. You're in denial. You KNOW what's happening, but won't accept it.

She's playing you. And you're rolling over and taking it. What she's saying is she wants to fk around. Plain and simple. She wants other guys c*cks inside her. She wants to fk other dudes. She.wants.to.cheat. On you. And is playing you so you actually give her permission to do it! 

All this BS about 'poly', internet forums, etc, it's just a smoke screen. And it's working. You don't know if you're on your head or your a$$. You're totally beta'ed out. 

You give her two VERY simple options. 

1) She knocks this sh*t off and chooses to be your wife.

2) You file for divorce. 

It just doesn't get any simpler than that. You can't stop her cheating, period. But YOUR boundary is that if she chooses to pursue this path, divorce papers WILL be filed.


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## Cynthia

Dan708 said:


> I should have added that she now routinely uses the fact I went on Internet forums as a defense. She says her having an emotional affair over text, email and phone with someone she has met in person is equal to what I did going onto forums to talk about things I was embarrassed to share. I am not proud of what I did but this was something we had worked through when it happened and I thought we were beyond it. Besides, I never knew the actual names of the people let alone met them in real life (and it was both men and women that posted and chatted on the forum). Am I wrong for thinking her actions were "worse"? and for that matter I don't even think there is a point compare the two actions. I don't know... just confused right now.


She is changing the subject on you.
The reason it is confusing is because she isn't making any sense. First she says that what you did was wrong. Then she says that this is no different than what you did and therefore okay. So how she did that? It's a tactic she is using to confuse you purposefully and to escape responsibility for what she is doing wrong.


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## snerg

bandit.45 said:


> Divorce her.


QFT

Lawyer - as in get one yesterday
Separate finances - do it like last week
Look for happier days with a woman that will respect and love you


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## Marduk

Dan708 said:


> I should have added that she now routinely uses the fact I went on Internet forums as a defense. She says her having an emotional affair over text, email and phone with someone she has met in person is equal to what I did going onto forums to talk about things I was embarrassed to share. I am not proud of what I did but this was something we had worked through when it happened and I thought we were beyond it. Besides, I never knew the actual names of the people let alone met them in real life (and it was both men and women that posted and chatted on the forum). Am I wrong for thinking her actions were "worse"? and for that matter I don't even think there is a point compare the two actions. I don't know... just confused right now.


Blame shifting. Don't fall for it. 

Just get her to sign papers, throw her out, and inform all the parties involved. 

Poly people deal with reality by talking openly about it. 

Cheaters deal with reality by hiding from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator

*You remember when she went down to Texas the first time? That's when she rolled this guys ashes because she was out of your sight! Truth be told, if you dig around deep enough, I'd wager Dalmatians to donuts that she hooked up with this charlatan somewhere online and made a nice long trip down South to see him for a week long penile massage!

Start doing "the 180" on her skanky a$$ and get yourself immediately checked out for the presence of STD's! Whenever you come across dialogue to the extent that this "dipstick" is telling her to keep it quiet and not tell you because you might inform his old lady ~ well that just makes me think that it's maybe just not her ashes that getting rolled ~ I'd bet that she's been in a week long ménage-a-trios with him and just about anybody else, male or female, who's taken time to drop their drawers!

And she's flat-out "trickle-truthed" you to death, hoping that maybe you were actually buying into some of it, or at least enough of it to permit her to continue! Trust me, my friend: you are her "Plan B" ~ and when it's Plan A time, she'll leave you like a bad habit, and with absolutely no equivocation or aforethought! You'll largely be nothing more than yesterday's news!

So what are you going to do after you see your doctor? Get to your lawyer's office and rid yourself of that scourge! Sad to say, but the only one who is being fooled here is you! You deserve far better than what she's giving you ~ as it greatly seems that she's busy enough giving it to everybody else!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Dan708 said:


> I should have added that she now routinely uses the fact I went on Internet forums as a defense. She says her having an emotional affair over text, email and phone with someone she has met in person is equal to what I did going onto forums to talk about things I was embarrassed to share. I am not proud of what I did but this was something we had worked through when it happened and I thought we were beyond it. Besides, I never knew the actual names of the people let alone met them in real life (and it was both men and women that posted and chatted on the forum). Am I wrong for thinking her actions were "worse"? and for that matter I don't even think there is a point compare the two actions. I don't know... just confused right now.


AYFKM? Please tell me that you're not falling for this bullsh*t.


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## Vulcan2013

In this circumstance there's no way I'd believe she hasn't cheated. If she brought up the poly lifestyle gradually, it's likely she was missing something. In this case, it's a sh!tty way to try to get retroactive permission. Notice the heavy level of mindfvck. 

If you let yourself be talked into it, you'd better enjoy watching her with other men. She'll have a far easier time getting partners than you will, it's a simple fact of biology and attraction. 

My advice

1) separate finances
2) lawyer up
3) file for D, have her served at work
4) expose to family and close friends of hers
5) expose OM to his gf and W. Not out of spite, but to help his open relationship actually be open. And shove him away. 
6) do the above as close together as possible with no warning. 
7) D takes time, if she meets your conditions you can back off. 

Investigate. Check out @weightlifter 's standard evidence post. She is lying and will continue even when it's obvious. 

Really consider not taking her back if you have no kids. She's not wife material.


----------



## happyman64

Dan708 said:


> I should have added that she now routinely uses the fact I went on Internet forums as a defense. She says her having an emotional affair over text, email and phone with someone she has met in person is equal to what I did going onto forums to talk about things I was embarrassed to share. I am not proud of what I did but this was something we had worked through when it happened and I thought we were beyond it. Besides, I never knew the actual names of the people let alone met them in real life (and it was both men and women that posted and chatted on the forum). Am I wrong for thinking her actions were "worse"? and for that matter I don't even think there is a point compare the two actions. I don't know... just confused right now.


Don't let her confuse you. It is BS. Internet forums and her wanting to go "poly" are not in the same galaxy my friend.


----------



## brooklynAnn

Your wife is full of sh##. She went to Texas, got exposed and participated in sexual situations, that has her hot and horny. Then, some cheating azzwipe sold her a story about being poly with him and his gf. While his poor young mother wife is at home and be thinking how wonderful her life is. What is poly about this? This is cheating.

Poly is when everyone is open about their arrangement. No one is in the dark. Everyone is in agreement. Everyone knows what the boundaries and expectations are. 

Your wife needs a serious talk to. Let her know you are not into this kind of lifestyle and she either accepts it or divorce her azz.

Don't let her guilt you into anything. Unless you want it and then you get equal access to all the women in the poly too. Share and share equal. 

Another thing, stop doing every damn thing in the house. You are not her maid or mum. Let her take care of her mess. That's what being an adult is. And don't beg her as not to do this. 

Take pride in being the man. You married young, so what? This is the time to enjoy being together and build a solid foundation that you will need later, when the kids come.

Start doing stuff by yourself, don't wait for her. Hell, go skydiving or something. Go to Costa Rica. Just do something outside your comfort zone. Show her the man you are. 

Soon, she will worry about what is going on with you. Find your alpha baby! ( that's what my daughter said, she is quite smart about these things)


----------



## larry.gray

Dan708 said:


> Thanks. While I am not 100% certain that him/her or her/her did not have sex, my wife has denied it. I think most of it was an "emotional affair." I even said I just want to know the truth so I can get tested since who knows what the guy has based off his track record.


Get tested either way. She's done enough to give you doubt. She's not watching out for your health so you should.


----------



## ConanHub

Don't let her kiss you or the kids until she gets tested! No telling where her mouth has been.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

The only "poly" you should enthusiastically agree to is attached with the word "graph" not "amory".


----------



## DayOne

morituri said:


> The only "poly" you should enthusiastically agree to is attached with the word "graph" not "amory".


----------



## Dyokemm

"I haven't simply because I am not a spiteful person"

Get this idea out of your head right now....telling the POSOM's gf is not out of spite....it's to let her know what a sh*tbag she is in a relationship with.

Don't you find it a little ironic that POS is preaching poly to your WW but not his own gf?.....and who knows what the real deal is with his W....tell her too.

Your WW has been down there getting smooth talked by this turd twice?...and she is super excited about his ideas/lifestyle?

Sorry, but I wouldn't believe for a moment she didn't already have sex with this guy....especially since you know she was doing a 'show for him kissing another girl.....she OBVIOUSLY had zero boundaries with this guy, and with him pushing poly at her, WHY WOULDN'T THEY HAVE HAD SEX?

Sorry, but they probably had sex....and since she is still so excited by the lifestyle, she probably has found other boytoys locally that you have yet to discover.

Expose this scummy POS to his gf and his BW.....and then file for D from your WW.....she is a lost cause at this point.


----------



## convert

Dyokemm said:


> "I haven't simply because I am not a spiteful person"
> 
> Get this idea out of your head right now....telling the POSOM's gf is not out of spite....it's to let her know what a sh*tbag she is in a relationship with.
> 
> Don't you find it a little ironic that POS is preaching poly to your WW but not his own gf?.....and who knows what the real deal is with his W....tell her too.
> 
> Your WW has been down there getting smooth talked by this turd twice?...and she is super excited about his ideas/lifestyle?
> 
> Sorry, but I wouldn't believe for a moment she didn't already have sex with this guy....especially since you know she was doing a 'show for him kissing another girl.....she OBVIOUSLY had zero boundaries with this guy, and with him pushing poly at her, WHY WOULDN'T THEY HAVE HAD SEX?
> 
> Sorry, but they probably had sex....and since she is still so excited by the lifestyle, she probably has found other boytoys locally that you have yet to discover.
> 
> Expose this scummy POS to his gf and his BW.....and then file for D from your WW.....she is a lost cause at this point.


I Agree


----------



## Decorum

Dan708 said:


> I should have added that she now routinely uses the fact I went on Internet forums as a defense. She says her having an emotional affair over text, email and phone with someone she has met in person is equal to what I did going onto forums to talk about things I was embarrassed to share. I am not proud of what I did but this was something we had worked through when it happened and I thought we were beyond it. Besides, I never knew the actual names of the people let alone met them in real life (and it was both men and women that posted and chatted on the forum). Am I wrong for thinking her actions were "worse"? and for that matter I don't even think there is a point compare the two actions. I don't know... just confused right now.


Dan you are being very weak and passive here.

You are letting her set the agenda, and tie you up while she disrespects, humiliates and separates from you.

You will have no one to blame but yourself for ignoring the advice you are being given.

Infidelity is unlike any other issue in a marriage and the steps to take may seem counter-intuitive.

Never never never go to couples counseling while your wife is involved with the other man in any way, emotionally, physically or just waiting for an opportunity it will be very counter productive.

Bucker up buddy!

I wish you well.
Take care.


----------



## Chaparral

Get the two books linked to below. Especially the MMSLP book. Your sliping in the how should a man behave department.

You wife is beating on you like a cheap drum.


----------



## Seppuku

Dan, you are in denial.

Please don't take it as an insult - it's simply a statement of fact based on the story you present, and no one is looking down on you because of it.

You might be able to dismiss one or two people telling you to file for divorce, but every single post telling you to file should come as a bit of a wake up call.

I would encourage you to ask your wife one question: if this is what you want to do, why do you want to stay married?

When she comes up with some stupid answer like "because I love you and want us to be happy and both be fulfilled" don't seem surprised - whatever she says will be her own self justification and 95-100% BS. Just listen to her answer and then walk away. Start your 180 and file your papers. She wants to be single, but have someone at home to cook and clean and buy her things.

I don't know much about filing for divorce and the costs etc, but you can get that kind of help in the divorce forum.


----------



## aine

Do the 180 for yourself and tell her if this is the path she wants to follow you want a divorce. There is no room for negotiation.


----------



## inhope

I agree with everyone else. Divorce.
This will never work.

YOU are happy pottering about, mowing the lawn, domestic bliss personified and she has just discovered there is a world out there and she wants to be part of it. She no longer wants what you want. 

The only alternatives I see lead to huge resentment issues for one or both.

She buckles down has babies and hates you forever for stifling her dreams. Happy marriage on the outside, miserable for you both in it.
Or you accept her clubbing, her travelling and cheating ways and you stay at home like a good little husband, looking after the house and paying the bills, and one day pretty soon she just doesn't come home.
Or you join her in all those new activities she wants to do, but I suspect one of the reasons she wants to do them is to be free from you and to get exterior validation - you tagging along is the last thing she wants.

One of the downsides to marrying a virgin, little more than a child, bride. 
She grew up.

_Go find a woman who wants what you want, and stay clear of virgins and very young women, or you will find yourself in the same situation a few years down the line._


----------



## Dan708

Hi, thanks everyone for the advice. I think it's one thing to read everyone saying to divorce, but a totally a different thing to accept that and end something you've had with someone for a decade. I need to work on separating my brain from my heart. Sometimes she is so sweet and I still get glimpses of why I feel in love with her. But then it is almost a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde thing whenever the topic of "open marriage" comes up.

I have been thinking about it and I do think I am in denial. It's almost like I don't want to admit she is no longer the same person I married. We saw a marriage counselor last week and will be seeing the same one again tomorrow. The counselor recommended we put this idea of open marriage on the back burner. She tells the therapist she isn't "sure" about open marriage but then when we are in private, she seems in more support of it. I don't necessarily agree with the counselor because I think we need to figure things out sooner rather than later. I can't sit around and just wait for her to "figure things out" How long should I invest in trying to make this work... or should I just cut my losses. I keep going back to the earlier comment in this thread of polyamory being a passing idea... but how on Earth do I determine that? 

She keeps telling me that she is "sad" and that she doesn't want to hurt me because she loves me so much but that she is not happy with our current situation. Tonight I got a text from her saying she wished the guy in Texas hadn't hit on her so she could help in the "amazing" things they are doing down there. Thanks to people on this forum, I was a little more firm and direct and said I am not O.K. with her going down there but made it clear I was not stopping her. She could go, but I would be visiting a divorce lawyer when she was there. I also told her that actions have consequences and if she wanted to work with them professionally, she should have never let it get to where it got with them. 

We'll see how things go tomorrow with the counselor :|


----------



## bandit.45

Good for you taking a stand. Now, if she does go to Texas then you need to follow through and file for divorce. Begin the 180 and start detaching. If you are going to make a threat like that, you have to follow through. 

And...you need to get the idea out of your mind that she still loves you. I'm sorry friend, but she does not love you. She does not love you nor does she respect you.


----------



## Dan708

bandit.45 said:


> And...you need to get the idea out of your mind that she still loves you. I'm sorry friend, but she does not love you. She does not love you nor does she respect you.


Why do you say that?


----------



## tom67

Dan708 said:


> Why do you say that?


Because if she loved and respected you she would not even consider this.
And if you respected yourself, you would have told her to quit her job or divorce.
But you did well tonight grasshopper.:smile2:


----------



## Dyokemm

"Why do you say that?"

Could you do to her what she is doing to you?

No?....Why?

Answer...because you truly love her.

So ask yourself, what does that say about her, since she IS doing this to you?


----------



## bandit.45

Dan708 said:


> Why do you say that?


What a person does is what belies their true nature....not what they say. Stop listening to what she says and watch her actions instead. Her actions are what speak the truth. Her actions clearly demonstrate a lack of love and respect...


----------



## GusPolinski

Dan708 said:


> Why do you say that?


Dude. I can't believe you're still falling for this sh*t.

She's cheating on you, and the whole poly/open marriage thing is nothing more than her bullsh*t way of attempting to legitimize it.

Anyway, stick to your guns. If she goes to TX, you file. Otherwise you might as well get accustomed to tasting another man on her lips.

ETA: Actually, f*ck that. Just file. Now.

After all, she's been cheating on you since (at least) last year.


----------



## tom67

Put Gus and Bandit in surveillance mode they are deep in the heart of Texas.
Eh well...
Kidding lol.


----------



## poida

Sorry I came into this late, but if Bandit, Gus and Tom are saying get out like, this, please do it. They know what they are talking about and I wished I had listened to them better in my early stages of denial.

But, out of interest, did you wife say SPECIFICALLY (emotionally) in counselling what was missing in the marriage for her?

I suspect she just thinks the grass is greener elsewhere. She will learn the hard way, but there is nothing you can do about that. Trust me. Once a cheater gets an idea in their head, NOTHING can change it. They can't live with the shame of cheating, and they CERTAINLY can't live with the SHAME of admitting it and coming back to their spouse.


----------



## GusPolinski

poida said:


> Sorry I came into this late, but if Bandit, Gus and Tom are saying get out like, this, please do it. They know what they are talking about and I wished I had listened to them better in my early stages of denial.
> 
> *But, out of interest, did you wife say SPECIFICALLY (emotionally) in counselling what was missing in the marriage for her?*
> 
> I suspect she just thinks the grass is greener elsewhere. She will learn the hard way, but there is nothing you can do about that. Trust me. Once a cheater gets an idea in their head, NOTHING can change it. They can't live with the shame of cheating, and they CERTAINLY can't live with the SHAME of admitting it and coming back to their spouse.


Prolly more d*ck.


----------



## Dan708

poida said:


> But, out of interest, did you wife say SPECIFICALLY (emotionally) in counselling what was missing in the marriage for her?


Nope, never specifically in counseling. Outside, she has said she wants to "explore her sexuality"


----------



## tom67

Poida mate how it goes.:smile2:
Or as bane666au from Melbourne says "Let's get stuck into it"
That's youtube.
I'm nothing special poida just spent a little more time on this planet and finally decided to listen.
Take care.


----------



## GusPolinski

Dan708 said:


> Nope, never specifically in counseling. Outside, she has said she wants to "explore her sexuality"


LOL. She's already started.

Leave her to it.

Divorce.


----------



## Dan708

GusPolinski said:


> LOL. She's already started.
> 
> Leave her to it.
> 
> Divorce.


Oh don't think that hasn't crossed my mind MULTIPLE times, especially after reading everyone's response to this situation.

It's just hard to do when you are in the situation. Heck, it was hard enough to break off dating someone for me. Looking back at that, it was the right thing to do. It just took an ultimatum from the other person for it to happen. In hindsight, I wish I broken it off before the ultimatum. The handwriting was on the wall in that relationship, which probably it is in this situation as well and I haven't accepted it yet. 

But 10 years where 7 of those years is in marriage is a lot more to unwind than 2 years of dating someone... house, cars, finances, etc. But I know I don't need to tell anyone here that.


----------



## tom67

Dan708 said:


> Oh don't think that hasn't crossed my mind MULTIPLE times, especially after reading everyone's response to this situation.
> 
> It's just hard to do when you are in the situation. Heck, it was hard enough to break off dating someone for me. Looking back at that, it was the right thing to do. It just took an ultimatum from the other person for it to happen. In hindsight, I wish I broken it off before the ultimatum. The handwriting was on the wall in that relationship, which probably it is in this situation as well and I haven't accepted it yet.
> 
> But 10 years where 7 of those years is in marriage is a lot more to unwind than 2 years of dating someone... house, cars, finances, etc. But I know I don't need to tell anyone here that.


Dan
Poida was in the same boat as you.
Yes he is stilled scarred like you.
PM him please.
I think you will help each other.:smile2:


----------



## ConanHub

She is a lizard. Let her run away to lizard land and find yourself a human.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm

This really is as simple as this.

You tell her ABSOLUTELY no to a poly relationship...now and forever.

She either accepts that or you start the D process right now.

If you want a chance of finding out how far down this path she has already progressed....when you sit her down to talk, do not hit her with the flat out no right away.

Tell her you have been giving her desires a lot of thought....ask her to share honestly and openly what she has experienced so far, as you are curious about her first impressions of the lifestyle.....if she questions why the sudden change, tell her that you love her and as her H feel you at least owe her and her desires a fair hearing....be sincere. (in other words, ACT)

Tell her that to really make a choice though, you want a more personal insight into the lifestyle....and you would prefer hers because you and her have such a long and close history together...you trust her views more than anyone else's.

Yeah its total bullsh*t from you..... but with what she has been putting you through, I think a little misdirection from yourself in order to find out exactly how far down the rabbit hole she has already gone, is fair play.

Then tell her you need a day or two to reflect.....after that passes, hit her with the ultimatum.

Well unless, in her excitement at you considering her desires for poly, she divulges having done things with others that are a dealbreaker for you.....at that point, instead of the ultimatum, you can just tell her that her you do not want a poly M, and her actions in that direction have already decided you that D is the only option you have.

I shared before....I think she has likely already engaged in actions with POS in Texas that would be dealbreakers for you....so you need to find out how bad this situation has already become, in addition to making your non-negotiable refusal of a poly M crystal clear.

I would use a little misdirection to try and find out what she has already done....and then drop the ultimatum.


----------



## bandit.45

The OP seems to be the kind of good hearted fellow that women are both attracted to and bored to tears by. I don't think what we are telling him is going to sink in until he comes home one day to see his wife on her back, legs in the air, with one of her fvckbuddies furrowing her field.


----------



## Matthew81

First-time poster here, but I read your thread and wanted to chime in with a bit of a different perspective. I'm definitely not offering advice - just some things to think about.

To begin with, there are some positive signs. The mere fact that your wife is talking to a counselor seems to show she's not yet ready to jump into this hook, line, and sinker. Also, she obviously has some feelings for you as well, or she'd probably have already left. It doesn't sound like she *needs* you for anything else (especially if she thinks she has a lover waiting). Sure, she may just be waiting for the right moment, but it seems more likely that she is also feeling conflicted.

Taking the initiative to get a divorce will make your wife feel justified in doing whatever she chooses to do next. The nearly unanimous opinion in your thread seems to be that she'd be signing up for the misery of repeated conflict and betrayals. Do you love your wife enough to want to spare her that pain? If so, why push her into it by filing for divorce?

You said you do still love your wife and still see the things in her that you fell in love with to begin with. If she came to you today and said, "Look, I've been really stupid, will you forgive me?", and you knew she meant it, would you be willing to spend the rest of your life with her? Going a step further: Do you (or would you like to) love your wife enough to take her back, even if she throws herself fully into the poly (or cheating) lifestyle before realizing you were better than all of that?

Some of the most in-love couples you can find are those who have been through betrayal and restoration.

Are you familiar with the story of Hosea and Gomer? Here's a good and (relatively) brief account that is worth reading: https://bible.org/seriespage/8-undying-love-story-hosea-and-gomer

If the idea of forgiveness and restoration seems poignant or even (in a sense) beautiful to you, then it might be time to tell your wife that you know you can't stop her, but you won't participate, give your approval, or live together if she does it. Let her leave if she decides to. Let her be the one to file for divorce if she wants it. And be there waiting for her if and when she realizes her mistake.

Some will say this will hurt you and let her walk all over you. It definitely might - but it would also demonstrate your love for her. The question for you is this: Is she worth the risk?

It bears repeating: some of the most in-love couples you can find are those who have been through betrayal and restoration.


----------



## JohnA

Dan,

Their are two issues here: her and his actions. He could have been an ally of her marriage but choose not. It drives me insane when the posm says "well they had problems in their marriage.". This is no different the saying "well she was passed out and I figured what the hell."

The other man is a toxic cancer to marriage and is using the work place as a hunting ground. What about the next "Dan."

I would be very interested in hearing Dyokemm's take on this,


----------



## Dyokemm

JohnA,

You mean my take on POSOM?

Oh, I think he is a scummy predator.....and for all the hard-selling of the glories of poly relationships to Dan's WW, I think it is VERY telling about what his real relationship status with his W and his pregnant gf is, that he did not want the WW to mention any of this to them.

If they are all really enjoying the beauty of polyamory, why would the flirting (and I personally think a lot more happened here, even more than the 'kissing' show with another woman that WW admitted to Dan that she engaged in for POSOM's pleasure) with WW have to be kept secret?

Other posters are right, no matter what any of us may feel about the lifestyle, anyone who knows anything about it knows that everything is supposed to be out in the open and honest.

The fact that POSOM wants to keep it secret tells me that he is probably NOT in a poly arrangement....either with his BW or gf.....he was just using his declarations about poly lifestyle to tantalize and seduce a woman that he saw had very weak boundaries, namely Dan's WW.

Simple predator....and Dan should definitely expose his a** to both the gf and BW.


----------



## tom67

Yes Dan what D said...
Find a way to contact his w and gf good grief.:frown2:


----------



## GusPolinski

Matthew81 said:


> First-time poster here, but I read your thread and wanted to chime in with a bit of a different perspective. I'm definitely not offering advice - just some things to think about.
> 
> To begin with, there are some positive signs. The mere fact that your wife is talking to a counselor seems to show she's not yet ready to jump into this hook, line, and sinker. Also, she obviously has some feelings for you as well, or she'd probably have already left. It doesn't sound like she *needs* you for anything else (especially if she thinks she has a lover waiting). Sure, she may just be waiting for the right moment, but it seems more likely that she is also feeling conflicted.
> 
> Taking the initiative to get a divorce will make your wife feel justified in doing whatever she chooses to do next. The nearly unanimous opinion in your thread seems to be that she'd be signing up for the misery of repeated conflict and betrayals. Do you love your wife enough to want to spare her that pain? If so, why push her into it by filing for divorce?
> 
> You said you do still love your wife and still see the things in her that you fell in love with to begin with. If she came to you today and said, "Look, I've been really stupid, will you forgive me?", and you knew she meant it, would you be willing to spend the rest of your life with her? Going a step further: Do you (or would you like to) love your wife enough to take her back, even if she throws herself fully into the poly (or cheating) lifestyle before realizing you were better than all of that?
> 
> Some of the most in-love couples you can find are those who have been through betrayal and restoration.
> 
> Are you familiar with the story of Hosea and Gomer? Here's a good and (relatively) brief account that is worth reading: https://bible.org/seriespage/8-undying-love-story-hosea-and-gomer
> 
> If the idea of forgiveness and restoration seems poignant or even (in a sense) beautiful to you, then it might be time to tell your wife that you know you can't stop her, but you won't participate, give your approval, or live together if she does it. Let her leave if she decides to. Let her be the one to file for divorce if she wants it. And be there waiting for her if and when she realizes her mistake.
> 
> Some will say this will hurt you and let her walk all over you. It definitely might - but it would also demonstrate your love for her. The question for you is this: Is she worth the risk?
> 
> It bears repeating: some of the most in-love couples you can find are those who have been through betrayal and restoration.


:slap:


----------



## Dyokemm

Gus,

Nothing shocks me anymore....I get the face palm on Matthew's post, but....

Some people just have ways of looking at these issues that are so alien to my way of thinking that I have a hard time even following their thought process.

For example,

The poster sapientia just exchanged some posts with me over on the poster Dude's Why Exit Affair thread in Considering D or Sep.

In them, she said she believes it is wrong to ever judge other people for what they have done.

When I had made mention of famous historical traitors...and how we do not excuse their behavior, so why should a WS, who has essentially done the same thing, the only difference being the scale of the offense, rather than the nature of it......she defended traitors and said we can't judge them, since they probably had good reasons to do what they had.

Even used Benedict Arnold as an example of someone whose betrayal was misunderstood.

Hey....she seems like a nice person....wasn't a nasty exchange....but all I could do was sit at my computer stunned that her opinion was that it was wrong to judge even people like this.

That way of thinking is totally alien to me.

lol...in fact, it seems the only thing sapientia is comfortable making judgements about is people who judge other people....a little ironic in my book, but like I said she seems like a nice lady.

Point is.....IMO even posts that shock us or strike us as absurd play a role on here....if for no other reason than they reinforce common sense by their illogic and absurdity.


----------



## sapientia

Dyokemm said:


> Gus,
> 
> Nothing shocks me anymore....I get the face palm on Matthew's post, but....
> 
> Some people just have ways of looking at these issues that are so alien to my way of thinking that I have a hard time even following their thought process.
> 
> For example,
> 
> The poster sapientia just exchanged some posts with me over on the poster Dude's Why Exit Affair thread in Considering D or Sep.
> 
> In them, she said she believes it is wrong to ever judge other people for what they have done.
> 
> When I had made mention of famous historical traitors...and how we do not excuse their behavior, so why should a WS, who has essentially done the same thing, the only difference being the scale of the offense, rather than the nature of it......she defended traitors and said we can't judge them, since they probably had good reasons to do what they had.
> 
> Even used Benedict Arnold as an example of someone whose betrayal was misunderstood.
> 
> Hey....she seems like a nice person....wasn't a nasty exchange....but all I could do was sit at my computer stunned that her opinion was that it was wrong to judge even people like this.
> 
> That way of thinking is totally alien to me.
> 
> lol...in fact, it seems the only thing sapientia is comfortable making judgements about is people who judge other people....a little ironic in my book, but like I said she seems like a nice lady.
> 
> Point is.....IMO even posts that shock us or strike us as absurd play a role on here....if for no other reason than they reinforce common sense by their illogic and absurdity.


Wow, I guess I really struck a nerve that you needed to write another post about this in another thread? (another poster suggested this might be the case)

I will clarify that your post above is wrong. I didn't post it was "wrong to ever judge", you have misinterpreted my post because you are viewing it through your emotional lens. I said it is trivial to judge, and it is. As you are attempting to do with me now and, because you are judging me on limited data you are missing out on an entire widening of your POV on life.

I am really, really sorry you are struggling with this issue. 

I would further ask you not mention me this way in other threads. Its very disrespectful.


----------



## giddiot

sapientia said:


> Wow, I guess I really struck a nerve that you needed to write another post about this in another thread? (another poster suggested this might be the case)
> 
> 
> 
> I will clarify that your post above is wrong. I didn't post it was "wrong to ever judge", you have misinterpreted my post because you are viewing it through your emotional lens. I said it is trivial to judge, and it is. As you are attempting to do with me now and, because you are judging me on limited data you are missing out on an entire widening of your POV on life.
> 
> 
> 
> I am really, really sorry you are struggling with this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> I would further ask you not mention me this way in other threads. Its very disrespectful.



And you can't see how you judged him in this reply and implied he has a problem?


----------



## sapientia

giddiot said:


> And you can't see how you judged him in this reply and implied he has a problem?


Karma is an interesting thing, isn't it? Please don't try to reverse psych me on this. The order of events is quite clear. If he had chosen to express himself without pointing me out specifically, there wouldn't be an issue. Another poster alerted me to this possibility, so it would seem I'm not the only one with a concern.

But yes, I do feel pity he felt the need to do this. I don't judge him for it. I've read some of his other posts on the topic of affairs and he is clearly on his own journey on the subject. I'm just expressing my right not to be personally called out elsewhere on the forum in this disrespectful way. My opinions were expressed politely in the other thread and if he truly had an issue he could have PM me privately to discuss. 

Really, his post reflects more on him than me, but it was disrespectful for him to have done this. In any case, this experience is becoming quite negative so I will withdraw and allow the mods to deal with this.


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## happyman64

How are you doing Dan?


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## Dan708

Not good. I believe she is trying to find things on me as an "excuse" for a separation so she can pursue her professional, perhaps personal, relationship with the organization in Texas.

She went through my computer yesterday and found evidence of major purchases/debt concealment. It was very wrong and I did not deny anything and in fact told her more than she would have been able to find through the computer. I do earn the vast majority of income in our household and she was able to graduate with a Master's degree debt free. I had been in individual therapy trying to work on how to disclose that whole situation. What I did was terrible and I feel awful about it. I do not know if that equates to what she did or even needs to be compared, but it may be the straw that breaks the camel's break. I also feel that couples have worked through financial issues such as this as the betrayal is a little different. This is not an excuse or justification, but I think it is one thing to been dishonest regarding money but another thing to be intimate with another person who is not your spouse. 

She stayed at her parents house yesterday; her step mother was very cold and did not even say "hi" to me when she came to pick my wife up.

This has probably been the worst year of my life....


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## happyman64

Two different issues Dan. But it does point another issue in your relationship. 

Let her go. 

And if some people hat debt is due to her education make she shares the debt with you. 

Don't let her make you a patsy. She cheated. 

Now deal with it. 

Hm
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

Even though she says she wants a poly life that may not even be true. She may just not want you that much, but getting out is scary as you're all she's ever known. 

If she meets someone that really rocks her world this poly thing might disappear.

I'm sure it's painful to hear but letting her go would free you up to find someone whose world you rock.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61

I have to say that this is a major smoke screen on her pArt.....I hope your not buying for a second...I would the cards on the table, the hell with her mother....you look your wife in the eye and you Are not playing her games....if she is trying to make you feel bad enough to let her fu#k someone else then she be ready to end the marriage completely....Don't hide behind silly excuses....and tell the mother to go fly a kite what her daughter is thinking of doing is 10x worse.


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## Dan708

happyman64 said:


> Two different issues Dan. But it does point another issue in your relationship.


I agree. And it's a huge issue, but one I have been honest about now and one I said I will work on in individual therapy. I also have a very doable plan to get out of debt in the 2-2.5 year range. We also decided now to have separate accounts and I have specifically told her that she is not responsible for any of the debt I incurred and it is my problem. I also believe it would be foolish to throw things away for a temporary issue that I am working on and have a plan to fix. 

I almost feel as if she went snooping on my computer to find something for her to justify divorcing me.


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## bandit.45

Just divorce her bro.  She is not into you anymore...if she ever truly was. She was looking for dirt on you to protect herself when you find out how extensive her cheating has been.... so that she can beat you to the punch and trash you in public if you ever try to tell people about her cheating behavior. 

And she has cheated....that much is very clear. You just don't have the proof yet.


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## Dan708

bandit.45 said:


> Just divorce her bro. She is not into you anymore...if she ever truly was. She was looking for dirt on you to protect herself when you find out how extensive her cheating has been.... so that she can beat you to the punch and trash you in public if you ever try to tell people about her cheating behavior.
> 
> And she has cheated....that much is very clear. You just don't have the proof yet.


Yes, again it hard to even think about divorce after being with someone for a decade. She said yesterday too that if I disclose what I know about the guy in Texas that she will inform my parents, co workers, and pretty much everyone she knows about intimate and sexual details about me. Whoa....


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## bandit.45

Ask her for a quiet no fault divorce. You go your separate ways. You say nothing, she says nothing. Take your idiotic debt and just go your way. Let her go wh0re herself out. 

Be smart. Don't let her entrap you. She is venom.


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## Dan708

bandit.45 said:


> Ask her for a quiet no fault divorce. You go your separate ways. You say nothing, she says nothing. Take your idiotic debt and just go your way. Let her go wh0re herself out.
> 
> Be smart. Don't let her entrap you. She is venom.


By "idiotic debt" do you mean that it is irrelevant to the situation or that how it was stupid to get into debt like that in secret (no argument there btw)


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## happyman64

Dan708 said:


> Yes, again it hard to even think about divorce after being with someone for a decade. She said yesterday too that if I disclose what I know about the guy in Texas that she will inform my parents, co workers, and pretty much everyone she knows about intimate and sexual details about me. Whoa....


So much for "for better or worse"

"for richer or poorer"

"in sickness and in health"

I hope you realize who she truly is and how much better you will be without her.

She needs to go learn a hard lesson.


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## bandit.45

Dan708 said:


> By "idiotic debt" do you mean that it is irrelevant to the situation or that how it was stupid to get into debt like that in secret (no argument there btw)


Yes. 

What you did is what we here in these parts call "financial infidelity". It can be just as destructive to a marriage as the sh!t your WW is pulling. 

Own it pal. Stop the behavior and don't do it anymore. Let her ride her party train to hell. Go your separate ways and learn from it.


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## 6301

The problem here is you sat on your hands and and gave her 100% control over HER mess. Now you have another one.

She's got you buffaloed to the point that your losing your own self respect over it. It's time you wake the hell up and start to realize that she wants out and wants to make you the bad guy so it will be easier for her and YOUR LETTING HER!!

If it's me, I go see a lawyer, file, put your finances in another account, hand her the papers and tell her to go back to Texas and her little swingers cult down there, contact that guys wife, fill her in about her husband, thumb your nose at your wife and walk away. Call her bluff. She has a lot more to lose then you do. You asked someone on line about sex subjects. If she says anything about it, tell her you had to do something because in your opinion your sex life stunk to high heaven, then you spread the word about her because sure as $h!t she'll do it to you. Wise up friend.


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## Dan708

Just found something out tonight... when my wife had obtained access to my email, she went ahead and deleted the email that contained all the correspondence I had obtained regarding the relationship with this guy.

Wow. My head is spinning.

Fortunately it was Yahoo mail and they have a recovery if before 7 days and this was a little over a day ago. Hopefully they will be able to restore it.

Curious now if I confront her about doing that or ?


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## GusPolinski

Dan708 said:


> Just found something out tonight... when my wife had obtained access to my email, she went ahead and deleted the email that contained all the correspondence I had obtained regarding the relationship with this guy.
> 
> Wow. My head is spinning.
> 
> Fortunately it was Yahoo mail and they have a recovery if before 7 days and this was a little over a day ago. Hopefully they will be able to restore it.
> 
> Curious now if I confront her about doing that or ?


Change your passwords (ALL OF THEM) first, and do it from a known clean device i.e. something that you KNOW doesn't have a keylogger or similar software installed. Buy a cheap laptop and keep it at work if needed.


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## GusPolinski

Dan708 said:


> Yes, again it hard to even think about divorce after being with someone for a decade. She said yesterday too that if I disclose what I know about the guy in Texas that she will inform my parents, co workers, and pretty much everyone she knows about intimate and sexual details about me. Whoa....


Well there you go. Clearly her loyalty is to him and not to you.


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## Decorum




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## jsmart

I know you're reeling but you need to take care of your health. Make sure you're getting some sleep, eating healthy. Start workout out hard. It''ll help you feel better about yourself. Reach out to some male friends. Implement the 180 to help you detach.

She has without a doubt had sex with POS. Since you haven't mentioned any kids, I assume there aren't any. You need to get a lawyer ASAP to guide you on how to proceed. Protect yourself financially. Don't give her a penny or take on any debt for her. Be sure to expose to his wife.


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## Dan708

jsmart said:


> She has without a doubt had sex with POS.


I probably am just blindsided by the whole situation but maybe some folks on here can lay out the logic/reasoning here. 

What in the posts I have written make everyone on here think this? She repeatedly denies it was ever more than what I specifically posted.


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## Dyokemm

"I probably am just blindsided by the whole situation but maybe some folks on here can lay out the logic/reasoning here.

What in the posts I have written make everyone on here think this? She repeatedly denies it was ever more than what I specifically posted."

Because nearly every WS on any of these threads lies and minimizes what they have done....the ones who are 100% truthful are as rare as hen's teeth....and those that are truthful are almost exclusively remorseful ones, which your WW definitely is not.

The posters here who think she is gaslighting you about what she did in Texas, and I am one, are saying this based on reading the same plotline over and over again on threads here.

She already admitted to very inappropriate acts while with him (the whole kissing show, flirting, etc).....the possibility that she was 100% truthful about everything is very small.

And the fact that she is now threatening you if you reveal anything about the POS shows she fears exposure....likely because the things she is still hiding will come out of the woodwork, especially if you contact his W and gf.


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## gouge_away

The fact that she plans to ruin you if you expose him, tells us that she is protecting him, because she already has more invested in his arrangement than in your marriage.


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## happyman64

Dan

Secure your data.

Change all passwords like Gus recommends.

Your wife is setting you up to take a fall.

You need to take control of the situation now.

HM


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## arbitrator

Dan708 said:


> Just found something out tonight... when my wife had obtained access to my email, she went ahead and deleted the email that contained all the correspondence I had obtained regarding the relationship with this guy.
> 
> Wow. My head is spinning.
> 
> Fortunately it was Yahoo mail and they have a recovery if before 7 days and this was a little over a day ago. Hopefully they will be able to restore it.
> 
> Curious now if I confront her about doing that or ?


*Hell, yes! I'd confront her about it! And at the same time, secure my email/PC device to where she can no longer access it to try to sabotage any further information from your archives!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dan708

bandit.45 said:


> Yes.
> 
> What you did is what we here in these parts call "financial infidelity". It can be just as destructive to a marriage as the sh!t your WW is pulling.
> 
> Own it pal. Stop the behavior and don't do it anymore. Let her ride her party train to hell. Go your separate ways and learn from it.



Agreed. What I did was wrong and I told her. Part of what I think caused it is my mom was a compulsive hoarder and hid purchases from my dad (who made all the money). It's an addiction and I know couples who want to stay together can work through an addiction if the addict is willing to change. I am willing to do my part wholeheartedly and have committed to going to see a therapist to work on the addictive behavior. Additionally, before she found out I was talking to a therapist about how to bring this to the open. My plan was never to keep it a secret and I WANTED to be truthful. It just seemed an insurmountable hole to dig myself out of. 

I have said to her that I would own the debt and I also have said that I am "opening the books" for her to know everything financially. No more secrets, no more hiding and no more addictive purchasing. I have also offered to share how the expenses would be paid off in approximately 2 to 2 1/2 years. I can't undo what I did. But I am offering full disclosure and for her to check in to see that I am fulfilling the promise of not making further purchases.


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## Dan708

gouge_away said:


> The fact that she plans to ruin you if you expose him, tells us that she is protecting him, because she already has more invested in his arrangement than in your marriage.


Exactly my thoughts. I am not sure why there is this desire to protect him. That's the key piece of evidence I am going on to conclude that I don't know the whole picture.


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## turnera

She doesn't have an addiction. She just wants MORE than you.


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## GusPolinski

dan708 said:


> exactly my thoughts. *i am not sure why there is this desire to protect him.* that's the key piece of evidence i am going on to conclude that i don't know the whole picture.


B-e-c-a-u-s-e

s-h-e

h-a-s

b-e-e-n

f-#-c-k-i-n-g

h-i-m

If you need to know anything beyond that at this point then you're focusing on all the wrong details.


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## Dan708

GusPolinski said:


> Because. She. Has. Been. F*cking. Him.


OK, I think it is getting through my thick skull. :crying: Despite her denial, based off the responses here, my therapist's opinion, her emails, and gut instinct, I am going to assume she f*cked him.

The question is: how do I come to terms with it? I unknowingly had sex with her after her encounter. The thought of being in there after this guy is causing me to literally feel physically sick. I had thought to tell her that I am going for an STD test and if there was anything I should know about that I might find out. Opinions? 

I think it would be easier for me to just cut ties if I knew she had sexual intercourse. Addiction is one thing and can be worked on but having sex with a guy, lying about it, and then wanting to protect him and go down there again to work with him "professionally" are pretty much non negotiable...


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## farsidejunky

Why would you be willing to cut ties with her if she had intercourse, yet continue to hang around when she clearly, at a minimum, is shopping for something better (in her opinion)?

If you don't respect yourself, how can you expect her to?


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## GusPolinski

Dan708 said:


> OK, I think it is getting through my thick skull. :crying: Despite her denial, based off the responses here, my therapist's opinion, her emails, and gut instinct, I am going to assume she f*cked him.
> 
> The question is: how do I come to terms with it?


Divorce papers should help, along w/ a solid 180.

Detach, divorce, continue to detach, and move on.



Dan708 said:


> I unknowingly had sex with her after her encounter. The thought of being in there after this guy is causing me to literally feel physically sick. I had thought to tell her that I am going for an STD test and if there was anything I should know about that I might find out. Opinions?


I wouldn't say anything to her until after you've already gone.



Dan708 said:


> I think it would be easier for me to just cut ties if I knew she had sexual intercourse.


She'll never admit it, and since you weren't onto her before she started f*cking him, you're not at all likely to uncover any evidence. She's miles and miles ahead of you at this point. (That said, if you want to give it a try, there are ways to get to the truth.)

Just accept it and move on.



Dan708 said:


> Addiction is one thing and can be worked on but having sex with a guy, lying about it, and then wanting to protect him and go down there again to work with him "professionally" are pretty much non negotiable...


You need to just let her go. At every turn she's displayed a loyalty to OM over you. Even if she opts not to go, it won't have been because she didn't want to go.

And she _will_ go, BTW.


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## convert

So you helped pay for her masters degree with no debt.

how much money did you spend here on this debt you have? before you take on all the debt maybe you should really reconsider


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## Dan708

convert said:


> So you helped pay for her masters degree with no debt.
> 
> how much money did you spend here on this debt you have? before you take on all the debt maybe you should really reconsider





convert said:


> So you helped pay for her masters degree with no debt.
> 
> how much money did you spend here on this debt you have? before you take on all the debt maybe you should really reconsider


Currently, the debt stands at about 1 year of my gross salary. 

Right, no student debt whatsoever. So she did obtain a master's degree while we were married worth about $35000. She also received inheritance from her grandmother's estate that covered probably 80%. I make about 2.5x what she does but I know our state is 50/50 in a divorce for both debt and acquisitions. 

She and I also bought a car together in 2009 that is now paid in full that she will take and I would be fine with as long as other things are fair. Since it is my debt, I am fine with accepting it because I also do not want to have to liquidate what it was spent on. 

One thing I need to ask the lawyer would be: our house was bought prior to us being married. I am the only person on the mortgage but she is on the title. Since the house was bought prior to marriage I would consider that to be a pre-marital asset. I contributed ~83% of the 60K down payment we made. In our area, the home is not worth nearly what we paid so there is no increase of value/equity during marriage. I can pay the mortgage myself but it might be back to ramen noodles for dinner for a while  She also got to enjoy a nice 3 BR / 2.5BA suburban home for 7 years where she would never been able to have that lifestyle without my financial input.


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## jsmart

When it comes to the "family" courts assets and liabilities are split 50/50. She gets all of the assets and you get all of the liabilities.

I advice you to file ASAP while she's in the fog thinking that other guy is looking to take on a cheating divorcee. Get a good lawyer quickly and take his advise. You seem to have some complex issues that could lengthen the D process. Also don't try to be all high minded, be the more mature person. She will go for blood and will not go soft because you're being nice.


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## terrence4159

I agree hit her with the divorce quick! Play hard ball with her. Tell her to sign whatever you put in front of her or you out her lover to the whole world. She will sign anything to protect the man she loves.....that's the om not you. 

You may get the sweetheart deal of the year if you act quick and threaten exposure.


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## Sammy64

You keep saying the state you live in is a 50/50.. What state are you in. Only reason i am asking is because of the house. In my divorce, same as you i bought the house before we got married. In Tx, if you came into the marriage with the asset, you leave the marriage with the asset. My ExW was not all to happy about that, but she could have gotten 50% of the money she put into the house. Get her to sign a Quit claim deed...


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## lifeistooshort

The house is almost certainly joint property. Even if you come into the marriage with it she works and you guys have comingled funds that went to the house. It doesn't take much, if you paid the mortgage out of a joint account it's joint. If she bought something at the store for home improvement it's joint. That doesn't mean 50/50 necessarily, a judge could consider your down payment prior to marriage, but you're unlikely to keep 100% of her m the house without paying her something. 

I'm also in a joint state and that's what my divorce lawyer from my ex told me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sammy64

Unfortunately, that is not how it works in Texas. We are a community property state and the character or nature of the property depends upon its inception of title—when did you acquire that piece of property. Community property is anything acquired during marriage, no matter whose name it is in. Separate property is anything acquired prior to marriage or by gift, devise or descent during marriage. Therefore, if you bought your home prior to marriage then it is your separate property.


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