# Lost and needing real help



## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

I’m going to admit its been quite a while since I’ve been on here, let alone posted anything. Its now been a full year my wife and I have been separated and yet to divorce. I’m military stationed overseas and she doesn’t want to return home (not because of me, but from friends she’s made and both kids are in a really good local school). I tried to move out a few months ago and she was supposed to find a small place for herself, but as usual she splurged what money she had on BS and ended up moving in with me. I’ve tried on countless occasions to give her her time and space as she requested, but it never worked out to be more than just a few days at a time where I’d stay in a hotel. I’ve greatly improved who I was yet still do struggle in some aspects such as my anger. Now I’m not talking anything violet but things can set me off quite easily, but I’ve been going to a group to try and work on it. 

Most common mistake I’ve made is here and there we’d talk, something would spark the conversation and it, or I would lead it down the road of giving us a chance. We are great friends and the way we talk, treat and think of each other are no different than a married couple. Except the only thing missing with us is the “marriage” part, and physical aspect, holding hands, kissing, sleeping together. I keep thinking there are things I can do to make it better, but I usually end up failing and it back fires in my face. I bought her a 200eruo bracelet a month ago and (although I don’t care that much) she hasn’t told anyone she received it from me; namely the people who know our situation. I have so much **** going through my head I cant tell what is up and down anymore. She has said several times its over and she wants a divorce, but she hasn’t even looked into Step 1. I don’t know if its because doing so would void her visa and she’d have to head back to the states…or the more unlikely notion, she’s not 100% sure she wants to divorce. She has said a few times maybe things can work, but than in the same conversation, she retracts the statement. I love her dearly, and don’t want to “let go”, not to mention our kids, but that’s a given. And for me she is the most important thing in my life. 

I find myself looking at dating sites wondering if I should try to date since I know she has (not as revenge/jealous act), I find myself almost wanting just that feeling of someone enjoying being around me. Wife sends such ****ed up mixed signals, I feel like I’m walking on eggshells with her, not knowing if my next comment or topic will lead to an argument. 

I guess what’s why I’m typing here. I really have almost no one I can really talk to, and I just really want to vent and get my thoughts and emotions out there.

Here's a link to my last post..
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...0746-separated-losing-battle.html#post7975650


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your placing her high on a pedestal. Your a codependent trying to win her back by being a doormat. No self-respect is a unattractive trait. You have to learn to be fine on your own first, and she should look for her own place. When you spoil a child, does the child respect you? Adults tend not to be any better. If she wants to separate from you, then she should do it on her own. Your trying to please her to win her back. She should want the man, not the service he is providing.

You need to detach, go out with friends, and learn what it is like to be you as an individual, without her. You have wrapped your identity around her and you see her as a part of you, not her own entity. You cannot change her, but you can surely have some control over your actions, and reactions.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

The problem with that, while I dont disagree, alot of what I have been doing this last year are things I failed to do over the past 10 years. Treating her better, spending the right time with her; when I go away on assignment picking her up something nice. While I know losing her is crushing me, I have been away on assignments for up to a year long and been ok. Its more of the general feeling she gives me when we are together. I havent been doing this thing where I"ll do all of this if you take me/us back, what she has said in the past is she is afraid if it ceasing if we were to reconcile. Its hard to explain, but at the same time I understand people here get it, thats why I'm here lol. 
Another factor to consider is I am going to be stationed where I am now probably for the next 3 years, and if we divorce and she has to head back to the states, the kids have to go thus leaving me without my family for 3 years.
She's on a visa here based on my orders, with her not having a job or any kind of income, she is unable to find a place to move in too. And thats part of the problem, she has been given several chances to separate from me, yet she is still here; on her own accord mind you


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Scotty0310 said:


> The problem with that, while I dont disagree, alot of what I have been doing this last year are things I failed to do over the past 10 years. Treating her better, spending the right time with her; when I go away on assignment picking her up something nice. While I know losing her is crushing me, I have been away on assignments for up to a year long and been ok. Its more of the general feeling she gives me when we are together. I havent been doing this thing where I"ll do all of this if you take me/us back, what she has said in the past is she is afraid if it ceasing if we were to reconcile. Its hard to explain, but at the same time I understand people here get it, thats why I'm here lol.
> Another factor to consider is I am going to be stationed where I am now probably for the next 3 years, and if we divorce and she has to head back to the states, the kids have to go thus leaving me without my family for 3 years.
> She's on a visa here based on my orders, with her not having a job or any kind of income, she is unable to find a place to move in too. And thats part of the problem, she has been given several chances to separate from me, yet she is still here; on her own accord mind you




I just read your other post on another thread. Your wife is using you as a safety line while she explores her options. She is not investing in you because your sitting home like a loyal spouse. She probably does not respect you in any way, and is using flowerly language to keep you hooked. If she does find better, she will be gone, while you are left in the dust. She will keep trying to find another branch while using you to keep her safe from being alone, working a job, so she can invest in searching for a new mate. You should do some research that love is not an emotion, but a addiction due to hormones. Your emotions like sad, happy, angry, do not have the withdrawal like symptoms of love, romance, and lust. We crave love, romance, and lust, and when we do not recieve those things we will want to seek them out to fulfill the need. Your love , or addiction to her, is causing you mental harm, because love or attachment is one of those things that allow us to suffer. If someone like a neutral person was using you like this, you would kick them out of your life. You do need to gain some confidence, most women are attracted to strong, and confident men.

I bet if other women see you as a prize, it will make your wife become territorial again. She views you as her source of monetary resource. If another woman comes along, she will feel threatened, and she will start seeing you as a prize again. If she does not, then you really know it is over. For all of our intelligence and awareness, we still have behaviors like any other animal.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

You should believe it when your partner says something like "I don't love you or I want a divorce. There's no good outcome from those things being said so they mean it. The likely fact is that she wants out but independence is difficult and scary so she's stuck in place and resents you for it. If this is going to work then she's the one who has to think she's there because she wants to be and not because of no other options.

There are a few good marriage books. His needs / her needs is one and divorce busters is another. Honestly though other self help material may be good if she's feeling trapped. After all if she has confidence that she would be okay without you but stays out of choice then your relationship will be in a better place to work from I think.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

I know I probably sound like typical fool who is going through denial. Quite the opposite actually, since this has been going on for a year now I have had the chance to sit back and reflect on everything. Mistakes I've made in attempts to win her back, things I've put myself through. I may sound like I am putting her above blame, truth is its probably more her fault we are separated due to her lack of communication with me when we have issues arise. I to understand everything you guys are saying trust me, at the same time I see that already in myself and in the way I act. Although admittedly when her and I interact sometimes all that goes out the window and I forget what is going on.

Being military I've had plenty of time where we have been apart, I had to live apart from her for a year while I was in Korea. I did just fine, so while I dont dispute the co-dependance issue, I dont believe that to be a real issue. For me its more of not wanting to lose my family. The way they make me a better person now then from before. While I know for a fact I am kind of clingy with her, I know I would be able to part ways. Addiction to her is probably a very accurate term, while there is I feel, a great deal of love on my part, I know there is also on hers. She has said one of the things she's scared about on working things out is us/me going back to the way I was before, being angry, not full-filling promises made, and being kind of emotionally abusive (which goes back to the part of no communication on her about how she is feeling).

I'm not going to sugar coat it when I say I'm actually afraid/nervous to go back out and try dating. I think a big thing is I'm so used to married life, and her, how will I act around a new girl? I know I am not alone in that thought process but it still makes me uneasy. I fear right off the bat I'd probably tell the new girl what is going on with me, that while I want to start anew, I have issues going on. I mean how does one move on to someone new with different traits and features/quirks and not actually make mistakes/sabotage the process because he doesnt see what he likes do to things he misses from his wife?


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

Scotty - in general, clingy/needy = codependence

Don't run away from the term.

You've got plenty of company here.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

To add to this, I am by no means easy to live with so when I say the blame is more on her, I am only referring to the lack of communication. I like to sit and talk things out almost right away where she doesnt. I would rather talk about it, get if off our chests and into the air so we can put what ever issue behind us. I would get mad when she didnt want to talk and I would sometimes rage. 

IF you read my other post you'll note I'm not violent, nor would I become. I'm usually full of hot air, stomping around and getting frustrated with objects for the next hour before I cool down. Over the last year I've taken up running, more than i used to, so when we fought and I felt that rage, on go my trainers and out I went. 10 miles later I would return home hot and sweaty, and apologize after which we would usually be ok. Sometimes that wouldnt work and we'd not talk for a day or so, then a few words and then back to normal. I believe I have worked on the majority of my issues, and I have made progress.

She is a good wife, and deserves the best I can give her. She takes care of alot of the things around the house. And in the past year I've endeavored to relieve some of that responsibility off her shoulders.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Johnconrad said:


> Scotty - in general, clingy/needy = codependence
> 
> Don't run away from the term.
> 
> You've got plenty of company here.


John, the only reason I sound like I'm "running away" from the term is because while I want her around, the way she makes me feel, the physicality aspect of our relationship, I can be without her. Over the 11 years we've been together, I've probably lived 3 of them away, various assignments and deployments where i've lived on my own with no problems. When say clingy, its more of the stuff I think I miss about what she used to do, how we sat on the couch, slept in the bed and just in general always touched each other......I think lol


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

Scotty0310 said:


> To add to this, I am by no means easy to live with so when I say the blame is more on her, I am only referring to the lack of communication. I like to sit and talk things out almost right away where she doesnt. I would rather talk about it, get if off our chests and into the air so we can put what ever issue behind us. I would get mad when she didnt want to talk and I would sometimes rage.
> 
> IF you read my other post you'll note I'm not violent, nor would I become. I'm usually full of hot air, stomping around and getting frustrated with objects for the next hour before I cool down. Over the last year I've taken up running, more than i used to, so when we fought and I felt that rage, on go my trainers and out I went. 10 miles later I would return home hot and sweaty, and apologize after which we would usually be ok. Sometimes that wouldnt work and we'd not talk for a day or so, then a few words and then back to normal. I believe I have worked on the majority of my issues, and I have made progress.
> 
> She is a good wife, and deserves the best I can give her. She takes care of alot of the things around the house. And in the past year I've endeavored to relieve some of that responsibility off her shoulders.


Were you doing that so she'd appreciate it and spend more time with you?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Scott....... after my D I got involved with a CoD...and instead of trying to

fix her, I modeled positive behavior. Psychology is the area I am seeking

doctorate in. Guess what....it still did not work. There was a person

on here we called Yoda...he told me a year in advance exactly what was going 

to happen. It was clockwork.

He would use the term...... "hurt people.....hurt people"

sound familiar?


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

John, are you refering to the time I spent away from home due to work? If that is the case then no, for example my last tour to Korea back in 2011, I used that op to get out of an assignment we didnt like living at only to pick an assignment we both wanted, which ended us up in the UK. Alot of the things I do, I do so she'll spend more time with me, and family time in general. I already know if I were single, no kids I would more than likely be kind of a hermit. I would be contempt with staying at home or spending most of my time at work or the gym. I do alot of the things I do because it makes my family happy thus making me happy.

Chuck, I'm afraid I have to admit I dont remember what CoD means. I have used my time to think of the person I was when her and I met and I have tried to bring him back. There have been moments I think, which sparked her a little bit. For example back in Oct, I took the family down into London for the Star Trek Con, I had a great time and I asked her to come. I'm kind of the geek while she is the the polar opposite. I wanted her to see all the people dressed up because I knew she'd get a kick out of it. She did. And after we got back we had one of our talks and in that talk she said for a bit down there she thought she could stay and even have another kid with me. But she never eluded what that spark was.

I have used my time to try and better myself for two reasons, myself, and to show her I'm worth it. I dont go out of my way to impress her but rather just be myself and do little things here and there. Wash her car, take the kids from her to relax, straighten up the house when she leaves for a bit etc.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My advice... You need to forget dating, and deal with your current mess before you add to it. You make it sound like she has all the control. You move out, she can't find another place, so you let her move in with you? She says she wants a divorce but doesn't do anything about it, so you're helplessly caught in her trap? Start taking ownership of your situation, and decide what YOU want to happen. Then figure out what steps YOU need to accomplish to make that happen. That may mean you hiring a lawyer and filing for divorce yourself.

But don't cheat, which is what dating now would be. That won't fix anything, and will likely make a bad situation many times worse.

C


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

PBear said:


> My advice... You need to forget dating, and deal with your current mess before you add to it. You make it sound like she has all the control. You move out, she can't find another place, so you let her move in with you? She says she wants a divorce but doesn't do anything about it, so you're helplessly caught in her trap? Start taking ownership of your situation, and decide what YOU want to happen. Then figure out what steps YOU need to accomplish to make that happen. That may mean you hiring a lawyer and filing for divorce yourself.
> 
> But don't cheat, which is what dating now would be. That won't fix anything, and will likely make a bad situation many times worse.
> 
> C


PBear, I dont plan on cheating at all. Over the last year I've had op's but never took and never will. I was raised better than that. At the same time being Military and living overseas I cant just move out and let her on her own, we have a responsibility to our spouse no matter our martial situation. Her having no where else to go, I could face charges for leaving her like that. Normal Civilian marriages are very different compared to military marriages. Lets say you want to divorce your spouse, so you move out and leave her in the other house, you can do that, whereas I cannot. Not for the sake of a separation, but finances. 

We get paid a housing allowance for rent and if I were to move, my allowance would change to that of the new house's rental agreement, thus leaving no one to pay for the old house which I had just left my wife in. Also she is with me based on my Orders, so her visa is tied to that. Should we get divorced my orders would be amended to remove her and render her visa void...she would have to return to the states. Lots of differences between civi and mil so the term "controlling" cant really apply here I think. 

Now dont misconstrued this, as bad as it sounds there is a mutual control here, I dont mind her staying with me, that way she can see first hand the changes I've made. While at the same time I've been able to limit what she does to me. Aside from getting into her car and leaving, there isnt much she can do, bank account info for ex is all in my name, she has no access to it. The only thing she really dictates in the house is the amount of time her and I spend together.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

My question leans more towards is it such a bad thing to be the “back-up?” And what I mean is, take my situation and so many others and understand the spouse is wanting time apart, or at the most getting some of their needs met somewhere else because we/I stopped so they began looking somewhere else, or decided to not be married anymore. If you still love our spouse and now understand what happened and are working on bettering yourself in hopes of somehow working things out when your spouse doesn’t seem to want to. Is it really a bad thing to want to wait and see if they notice the change in you and realize maybe things can be worked on and maybe re-enjoy the marriage?

I'm not saying thats what I or anyone else is doing but so many people are so quick to "not put up with their BS" they want to cut and run. If the WW isnt filing for D yet, maybe she doesnt want to, and maybe she's just figuring things out and needs time. By giving that to her/him does that make you/me a "back burner" because we dont want to lose our spouse?

Again, just asking because so many people say cut and run...I'm just curious


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

Scotty0310 said:


> My question leans more towards is it such a bad thing to be the “back-up?” And what I mean is, take my situation and so many others and understand the spouse is wanting time apart, or at the most getting some of their needs met somewhere else because we/I stopped so they began looking somewhere else, or decided to not be married anymore. If you still love our spouse and now understand what happened and are working on bettering yourself in hopes of somehow working things out when your spouse doesn’t seem to want to. Is it really a bad thing to want to wait and see if they notice the change in you and realize maybe things can be worked on and maybe re-enjoy the marriage?
> 
> I'm not saying thats what I or anyone else is doing but so many people are so quick to "not put up with their BS" they want to cut and run. If the WW isnt filing for D yet, maybe she doesnt want to, and maybe she's just figuring things out and needs time. By giving that to her/him does that make you/me a "back burner" because we dont want to lose our spouse?
> 
> Again, just asking because so many people say cut and run...I'm just curious


It is never a bad thing to do things to make yourself more lovable, or try to become the type of person you believe she wanted. Even if she does not return, you will be more attractive to someone else down the line. But you probably shouldn't do it just for her...do it for yourself as well. That way, you won't be as devastated if there is no reconciliation. I don't think it is ever a good idea to pin all of your hopes on getting back together, but I would never say "throw it all away" just because.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Jane, that is kind of why I dont really understand when most of the time people's first response is "they're cheating, or leave now."
Other than straight up hating them or it just being plain over with.

Whelp, tonight is the first night of us being "physically" separated. We've lived together throughout the past year of separation, but we've made an agreement where she'll stay at one of our friends house during the night while I'm home, pick up and drop off the kids to school, and whn I come home from work, she'll leave again. Dont know how long this will last as I normally work night shift and for the next month I'm working days. She seemed kind of optimistic on how it might turn out giving me the feeling she is going to use the time to think about us. 

One of the things we sometimes enjoy is our time apart, being military I get to leave home on a irregular basis, we have always both enjoyed the welcome home part and even do the old school snail mail once in a while. With us apart (even though she's only 2 miles away), it lessens the possibility of me doing/saying something stupid, which is a good thing. Sometimes I go on about how I've changed and what not and it leads to a fight of sorts and her just wanting to end it, but she recommended this to give us some cool down time. In all honesty I've kinda already been there, so this separation is not anything really new to me, except that she is not here haha.


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## FormerVictim (Jan 13, 2015)

Scotty0310 said:


> My question leans more towards is it such a bad thing to be the “back-up?” And what I mean is, take my situation and so many others and understand the spouse is wanting time apart, or at the most getting some of their needs met somewhere else because we/I stopped so they began looking somewhere else, or decided to not be married anymore. If you still love our spouse and now understand what happened and are working on bettering yourself in hopes of somehow working things out when your spouse doesn’t seem to want to. Is it really a bad thing to want to wait and see if they notice the change in you and realize maybe things can be worked on and maybe re-enjoy the marriage?
> 
> I'm not saying thats what I or anyone else is doing but so many people are so quick to "not put up with their BS" they want to cut and run. If the WW isnt filing for D yet, maybe she doesnt want to, and maybe she's just figuring things out and needs time. By giving that to her/him does that make you/me a "back burner" because we dont want to lose our spouse?
> 
> Again, just asking because so many people say cut and run...I'm just curious


Putting your life on hold waiting for her while she's out dating and banging other men is a fool's errand.

Focus on increasing your personal attractiveness. And, you can socialize with whoever you want. My wife and I were separated for an extended period (years). I had several close female friends. Dinners, hot tubs, ballgames, picnics, late night TV series, BBQ's etc.

It helped me practice being awesome.

When she said she wanted me back, she was dead-level certain. This was in no small part due to being several levels more attractive than before.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Former,

The situation wasnt necessarily mine, but rather a question why it seems so frowned upon. Not every couple that separates has one of the two cheating, or immediately going out and dating/sleeping with someone. I know in my case that is not happening, and if it is, its in the few hours a day when we are not together and by that I mean I sleep during the day as I work at night. While I sleep, I can hear her in the next room watching "I love Lucy", when I'm at work, the majority of the time either our 4 or 8 year old are in the room with her, sometimes both. For a separated couple, we spend ALOT of time together.

Also sometimes waiting for your spouse to make up their mind doesnt necessarily mean you are putting your life on hold. I keep a pretty busy life, work, play and school. I have filled up my time with productive things; and to be quite honest right NOW, I dont want another relationship unless its with my wife. Give me time to get over being dumped (if the D goes final) then I am sure I'll be ready to date again but, right now I have too much going on to meet someone new.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

So I am kind of at a loss for words. Wife spent almost two weeks at a "family" friends house. And by family friend, I mean her friends; a married couple who owns a kids restaurant up the street from our house, both ours and their kids are school friends. Anywho, I come home from work a week ago and she doesnt leave, which is what we agreed on; she'd stay with the kids till i got home, then she'd leave for the night and come back in the morning as I left for work. I didn't really mind as I did miss her, but I didn't show it. I did ask her in the morning why she didnt leave, she told me she kind of thinks she was overstaying her welcome at her friends; which I could easily understand, and she thought I was mad she didn't leave and started to pack. I told her it was ok, as she looked tired the night before. We kind of kept to ourselves over the weekend. 

Come all last week and this week she has been acting different towards me, bringing me lunch at work, even asking if I wanted to go to the Golf course to grab lunch. Nothing much more beyond that, she did tell me about a friend of hers whom attends bootcamp with (kind of like a high intense workout) has a fancy in me, but didnt know she was talking to my wife, she thought my wife and I were just friends. My wife told her it was ok to talk to me and that the two of us were still kind of in a separation. 

I've had a problem in the past of reading in between the lines at stuff which wasnt there, and I am finding it hard to tell what all this means, if anything at all. Her demeanor towards me has changed since she stayed away for those two weeks and I dont know what to make of it. I havent pushed for anything but at the same time, both our birthdays were this last week, and we've hit the one year mark of us being separated. So needless to say, emotions have been running wild (for me anyway). She did mention to me that she was trying to figure and sort things out in her head; which is a far cry from her usual "I'm done" remarks about our marriage. I'm still keeping to myself and not be over-baring while letting her have space.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Keep living your own life. Make improvements on yourself. It will be an investment for your future relationship, whoever that person may be. Don't focus on reading between the line from a confused person, because they,themselves are conflicted. Go into therapy. Make goals to work on yourself. The more you accomplish, the more your confidence and self-worth will rise. It will raise your attractiveness to other women around you. Your free time should be spent exploring new hobbies, figuring out what would bring you fulfillment as you, not a married person, but you as the individual. She should not be a priority for you at the moment, because she decided not to be a partner to you. She certainly is not making you a priority and that is the way it should be. She should be working on herself to grow as a person, so whatever she figures out, she can find fulfillment. If she cannot find it with you, would you want her to sacrifice herself for you? So why sacrifice yourself for her.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Fisty, with a response which will probably sound like excuses, believe you me, they are not. That being said, I have been working on me and I do think I've made progress, is there room for improvement, who's to say. The main thing I worry more about is reverting back to being an Ass and losing the qualities I had which earned me the wife. Which is something I fear if we end it and when I start dating again, how I'll act and what will I expect from the new woman based on what I liked about the wife...if that makes sense.

Reading between the lines has become habit due to my job. I have to troubleshoot aircraft systems based on the little information I get from pilots, so I have to dig deep for answers. I've actually discussed this with her as well as our priorities to each other. I would argue though it seems she is putting me as a priority I think, wanting to have lunch with me, calling me at work to see if I want a coffee. It may seem like nothing but as I said earlier, she hasn't paid this much attention to me all year lol. I have all but given her the cold shoulder, I dont leave her in the dark mind you, but I dont try to do nice things for her anymore. I dont treat her any different than any normal person. Whe she's sick, yeah I'll help her, but other wise; any issues she encounters...are her problem. She's asked me for help and my usual reply is along the lines of "your mess, your problem." I kind of think thats why she's giving me the attention as seh wants its back, but I'm not really giving it back so....


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## FormerVictim (Jan 13, 2015)

Scotty0310 said:


> Reading between the lines has become habit due to my job.


I can assure you that "reading the tea leaves" in relationships brings the exact opposite result that it does at work.

You don't have to read between any lines when someone wants to be with you. That particular exercise is usually simple confirmation bias - where you look for only the things you wish to see and dismiss the rest.

For example... the nice things she's doing for you now may simply be motivated by guilt for what she's up to now.

As for the "your mess, your problem"? Do what you're ok with doing. But, be honest when you ask yourself that question. Am I ok helping with this even if I get absolutely NOTHING in return. It's the key to your eventual happiness.

The codependent cycle begins when we talk ourselves into being nice for some payback down the road. When it doesn't materialize, we get pissed. Yet, we simply get from others what we permit.


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## FormerVictim (Jan 13, 2015)

Scotty0310 said:


> Former,
> 
> The situation wasnt necessarily mine, but rather a question why it seems so frowned upon. Not every couple that separates has one of the two cheating, or immediately going out and dating/sleeping with someone. I know in my case that is not happening, and if it is, its in the few hours a day when we are not together and by that I mean I sleep during the day as I work at night. While I sleep, I can hear her in the next room watching "I love Lucy", when I'm at work, the majority of the time either our 4 or 8 year old are in the room with her, sometimes both. For a separated couple, we spend ALOT of time together.
> 
> Also sometimes waiting for your spouse to make up their mind doesnt necessarily mean you are putting your life on hold. I keep a pretty busy life, work, play and school. I have filled up my time with productive things; and to be quite honest right NOW, I dont want another relationship unless its with my wife. Give me time to get over being dumped (if the D goes final) then I am sure I'll be ready to date again but, right now I have too much going on to meet someone new.


My wife and I recently ended a 3 year separation. She's hear now and there's no earthly doubt this is where she wishes to be. Of course, I had to take the lead in de-escalating conflict situations, but I can clearly see where she no longer chooses to fight instead of let things go.

As to "how" we got back together. She asked me if she could move back in. As I now understand the dynamic of relationships, had I been "successful" at convincing her to come back, if something would not have worked out to her satisfaction, guess whose fault it would be?

Now that it's her decision, that dynamic is over. It's quite a relief, believe me.

This does not mean that I'm not vigilant every day for sliding back to the old ways. But, the new habits are much healthier and much easier to deploy - once you see the upside.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

So it looks like you guys were right. Along with some of the stuff she’s been doing for me being perhaps out of guilt. For over the last month she has asked if I wanted to have lunch together from work, has kind of gone a little bit out of her way to do something nice for me.

Last night I could hear her on the phone talking to some guy she claims she accidentally butt dialed…at midnight. It has happened, her mom used to butt dial my wife and my phone often when we lived back home. They talked for three hours and I listened in to most of it without her knowing; in the morning I confronted her about it to clarify stuff I heard, she explained and regardless if I believed her or not, I decided to snoop through the laptop she’s using which I let her barrow after her older one kicked the bucket. 

Just when I was about to give up, meaning I didn’t find anything real incriminating, giving me the false hope nothing is going on with anyone….I checked all her folders in her gmail account. There was no emails sent but instead a “note.” I don’t know if “notes” get sent out or what their purpose is, but it was about her being in love with another guy, one whom I think is the one in the picture I found who she claimed wasn’t anyone. By the way this guy, hasnt been around for very long so I dont know how she can talk about love. In the note she talks about begging him for another chance as it looks like he “pushed” her out and has more or less stopped talking to her.

Bottom line, this note she wrote to this guy or about him, sounds more or less like what I have done to try and “win back” my wife. For a while as I read it I couldn’t really tell what it was, as she used to write short stories before we met. She wrote one about our separation from last year, but changed the names. Until the end, she talked about trying to work with him by being gone every other weekend for some girl named Emma, now I don’t know if this is this guy’s daughter, or perhaps wife. That is the only name in the note so I cannot tell who the guy is yet. 

Because of my job (Military) I am actually leaving home for about a week or so here tonight and I’m torn on wither or not I should confront her on this, or wait the week until I get home. 
By the way, this note was dated on the 18th of Jan, and we are now on the 25th of Feb so…I am trying to determine if this coincides with the month she “moved” out when I brought up her not being home the same time I am. She swears shes not seeing anyone right now but, in a facebook message to a friend, about the same time of the message she and this guy she was seeing broke up. My suspicion is, he is the same guy in the note, and the picture I found. After that text, and the dated note, there is no more mention of him anywhere. At the same time, I dont know how "out of the picture" he and my wife might be.

All I want to do is scream at her, call her a coward and finally tell her she is the most despicable person I have ever known.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I'm sorry you are in that position Scotty0310. Make shure you are 100% positive your W has somebody else on the side. Do not confront her until you have 100% reliable proof she's cheating.

Do your homework. It's unfourtunate that you have to leave tonight, but if you confront her without real evidence she will likely hide her affair (if it's happening of course).

I'm shure others will chime in with other advice on this.

Be strong. Your kids need a strong father.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Regretf said:


> I'm sorry you are in that position Scotty0310. Make shure you are 100% positive your W has somebody else on the side. Do not confront her until you have 100% reliable proof she's cheating.
> 
> Do your homework. It's unfourtunate that you have to leave tonight, but if you confront her without real evidence she will likely hide her affair (if it's happening of course).
> 
> ...


Regretf, thanks. I already have found evidence and she has copped to being with someone shortly after our split last year, so I can claim adultery if I really wanted too. Although, with this note of hers, the way she talks in it, it’s pretty clear she’s been with him too. Most people today dont talking about love or a future if you havent slept with each other. I’m not hiding from that, I even accepted the first time and would have been able to let it go should we work on reconciliation.

I have a WhatsApp conversation with the first guy from last year and it describes a bit and she blatantly says “because we had sex” so I don’t need any more proof. Pictures or catching her in the act would obviously be ideal, but truthfully, even now I’m not ready for my marriage to end. One of the reasons I’ve been going away so often over the last few months is to try and get away from her and my feelings for a bit. 

One of the main reasons why I haven’t kicked her back to the states is because of the kids. With my job its near impossible for me to keep them here, and her leaving would mean taking the kids, and I wouldn’t be able to see them but for a few weeks a year for the next four years.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Scotty0310 said:


> Regretf, thanks. I already have found evidence and she has copped to being with someone shortly after our split last year, so I can claim adultery if I really wanted too. Although, with this note of hers, the way she talks in it, it’s pretty clear she’s been with him too. Most people today dont talking about love or a future if you havent slept with each other. I’m not hiding from that, I even accepted the first time and would have been able to let it go should we work on reconciliation.
> 
> I have a WhatsApp conversation with the first guy from last year and it describes a bit and she blatantly says “because we had sex” so I don’t need any more proof. Pictures or catching her in the act would obviously be ideal, but truthfully, even now I’m not ready for my marriage to end. One of the reasons I’ve been going away so often over the last few months is to try and get away from her and my feelings for a bit.
> 
> One of the main reasons why I haven’t kicked her back to the states is because of the kids. With my job its near impossible for me to keep them here, and her leaving would mean taking the kids, and I wouldn’t be able to see them but for a few weeks a year for the next four years.


Difficult choice. You have to make a choice what do you want to do. Divorce her or work on your M. Either way with the evidence you have you have to confront her. You won't be able to have peace within yourself if you don't confront her.

Make her come clean and let her face the consequences of her actions, problema is like you said if you kick her out she will take your kids too. Put things in perspective, which is the lesser of the two evils.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Scotty0310 said:


> Regretf, thanks. I already have found evidence and she has copped to being with someone shortly after our split last year, so I can claim adultery if I really wanted too. Although, with this note of hers, the way she talks in it, it’s pretty clear she’s been with him too. Most people today dont talking about love or a future if you havent slept with each other. I’m not hiding from that, I even accepted the first time and would have been able to let it go should we work on reconciliation.
> 
> I have a WhatsApp conversation with the first guy from last year and it describes a bit and she blatantly says “because we had sex” so I don’t need any more proof. Pictures or catching her in the act would obviously be ideal, but truthfully, even now I’m not ready for my marriage to end. One of the reasons I’ve been going away so often over the last few months is to try and get away from her and my feelings for a bit.
> 
> One of the main reasons why I haven’t kicked her back to the states is because of the kids. With my job its near impossible for me to keep them here, and her leaving would mean taking the kids, and I wouldn’t be able to see them but for a few weeks a year for the next four years.


Hi Scotty, 

Sorry you are here. I have read your thread and before I even got to the end I recognised your situation as being a "plan B" or financial support to your wife whilst she was trying to convince another man to be with her. At least now you know.

I have been in this situation and there is one thing I suggest you try to recognise before you embark on this journey. You do not decide if "you want this marriage over". Consider it long over. I am not trying to be harsh, only to help you recognise that this isn't a matter of choice for you and that a marriage is only a marriage if two are in it.

My advice after being more than a year down the road would be to start counselling immediately and work on yourself.

My biggest breakthrough was also when I realised I had to forgive myself (which seemed counter intuitive) for my marriage failing. Sure you have a lot of history and flaws, but don't accept responsibility for actions that your wife has made as a result. I have since met a wonderful woman and have realised that yes, people CAN have sensible conversations and have a close emotional connection which will allow them to resolve any and all problems that come up in life and between each other.

As you have found, some people/couples do not have this skill, and the result is where you are at. My wife was the same as yours in that she had no interest in really deeply and honestly talking it out. As a result, nothing got resolved, I got angry and started acting passive aggressively. Tell me when this sounds familiar.

Your recognition of this passive aggressive behaviour will be your saviour and the silver lining that will allow you to move on and become a much better person.

To be honest I'm almost glad you found about the letters etc because it will force/allow you to move on. The situation you were in wasn't a healthy way to live.

Go get yourself a counsellor and for goodness sakes, don't make my mistake and start dating to make yourself feel better or less lonely. It isn't rewarding and it sucks because you can't open up anyway.

Work hard on yourself, get close with your mates and don't even think about women until you have healed properly.

Trust me, it will prevent you from healing and learning and moving on. It will take twice as long when your concerns shift to another person.

Good luck!


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

Poida, 

Please, don’t worry about the harsh words or anything of the sort. I’m not sure how much plan “b” I am right now, she doesn’t have access to our/my bank account. Her mom has been giving her money, I have only been giving her ~$150 week for “child support.” Something the Air Force will mandate I do anyway should a divorce happen, and actually makes me look better having provided for it before being court ordered to.

Sadly the crossroads at which I am standing are to either just stick with the current situation of her living with me and let things ride out and see what happens with her feelings towards me, or tell her she has to leave, which would inevitably mean her going back to the states. The latter also meaning I lose both of my kids until I return to the states following my current tour in the UK is complete (mid 2018). 

Both of us attended MC for about a month shortly after all of this started last year until the counselor we were seeing left, leaving us with having to start all over again with the new counselor. At which point we stopped. I have gone to a few “group” sessions by myself without her to see how other couples in similar situations resolve their conflicts. And often I leave thinking to myself “Wow, our problems are nothing compared to these people, and they’re making it.” 

I am not out of the woods yet in the whole situation, I have yet to date anyone and I do not plan too until things are long over. I just don’t feel the “want to.” I have yet to confront her about this “note” of hers I found, for which I know she’ll be mad that I went snooping through her emails, but then again, if there weren’t trust issues with her, I wouldn’t have had the need to. I still don’t know how I feel about the note in the first place, I mean it sounds exactly like what I’ve been doing with her, asking for a second chance, wanting to better myself for both me AND us. 

The whole time we’ve been separated she has stated she doesn’t want to be with anyone else, and seems pretty animate about it, but then I see this. There are no other mentions of the person she is referring to in this note and I know for a fact right now, she’s not seeing anyone. So do I just leave it alone and put it in my back pocket for now and let things go and see what happens? Or do I risk blowing everything up (like I know they will) by asking her…by the way, our 10 Anniversary is this Friday, the 13th. Before all this happened I already bought her a small gift, and (I used to sketch) I penciled an old beauty portrait of sorts of her, for her.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Scotty0310 said:


> Poida,
> 
> Please, don’t worry about the harsh words or anything of the sort. I’m not sure how much plan “b” I am right now, she doesn’t have access to our/my bank account. Her mom has been giving her money, I have only been giving her ~$150 week for “child support.” Something the Air Force will mandate I do anyway should a divorce happen, and actually makes me look better having provided for it before being court ordered to.
> 
> ...


Hi Scotty,

I remember saying a lot of what you are now saying. I can assure you there is always a LOT more going on that you don't know about.

I can assure you that the way in which women cheat is incredibly well thought out. Probably the most carefully planned thing they have ever done. Why? It's because SECURITY is a woman's primary concern. It's just natural.

A cheating woman will do WHAT EVER she needs to do to secure her future. If that means hiding the fact or putting on the appearance that she is not seeing someone else (even if she isn't sleeping with them) with a view for that other man to be a possible support in the future, than that is what she will do. She may keep several options open. You will not find out about it. 

Do not be naive and do not write off my response and being extreme or paranoid.

Know that your wife is currently in the process of securing her emotional and financial future. The longer you let this go on, the further along in her plans she will be.

And know that when she has secured and alternative future she WILL take the kids anyway.

Your position is not enviable but may I suggest that the option you are holding out for is not going to work anyway.

You say you want to be be with your kids and I can understand that. The only long term solution to that would be that you PAY to have her live in another house in your area. Now ask yourself, how long do you think that is going to last? She is going to find herself the first single GI and head home with him and the kids.

Sorry, but unless you find a way to move to a location where SHE can get a job of her own and settle down i think your chances of being able to see your kids on a regular basis are slim to none.

Think about it from her point of view. She isn't here for you, she is only there because she is stuck there and she will be gone soon enough.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Well, you can stop seeing her as your spouse, and see her as an ex. Your technically not in a relationship with her. The problem is you see her as your wife and you want her to be committed to you like a wife. She does not see you as a husband, and she is only around through circumstances. Your the only one that is still seeing it like a relationship where you expect her to behave in a certain way. It is not fair, but that is the reality of the situation. There are example of couples having paper marriage, but they have other romantic interests. They usually stay together for some advantageous benefits. Is your goal that you want her to remain your wife? Only way to affect someone's behavior is the ability to either give positive or negative reinforcements.


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## Scotty0310 (Apr 1, 2014)

So here I am, about three months after I discovered the letter. I decided to sit on it for a while to see what might happen as things between us started to improve, I thought why mess with it. Well things blew up this past week. I discovered she opened a credit card (Military Star Card), for which can only be used on a military base but it is just the same as a normal card. Found a statement saying she’s two payments past due, next payment next week and the minimum amount due is roughly $558. My name is not attached to the card from what I can tell. Total bill; $6,780.

Moving back to the letter, after discovering the card, I brought it up to her. She told me it was a guy who wanted to date my wife (I don’t know if he knows her situation or not) and offered the spare bedroom when we decided to take a split back in January. I asked if she slept with him, she said no. He wanted to but my STBXW? Said they didn’t. She told me pretty much that he ended up kicking her out after a little over a week (I kinda lol’ed). I have not spoken with her for about six days and have no real need to in the near future.

I guess the crossroads at which I now stand, is where do I go? At what point does one just give up? She throws me hints all the time that things COULD be different/better but she doesn’t act towards me on it. She tells me she needs to find herself because all she sees in me is the hurt still. We went and saw the Avengers 2 a few weeks ago…she and the kids like it, me; not so much. It just didn’t impress me. Now I still had a great time with my family, but she’s hanging on and using the fact I didn’t care for the movie to say the experience was now bad because I didn’t “appear” to have fun. What does it matter if I liked the movie?

I have made leaps and bounds in myself to being a better husband towards her, and just overall gaining better control of my actions. Yes she did date a couple of guys during our 19 months separation, only one of which I can confirm she slept with. All three of them treated her like crap more or less, but here I stayed, waiting for her, taking care of things and being there for her. She hasn’t seen it, or she won’t acknowledge she did. So where or when do I give up? Do I for that matter? I’m in no hurry to meet anyone else, my job and school takes up too much time to disappoint someone new by never having the free time to see them.

I can send my wife back to the States, along with the kids since it would be impossible to keep them here, as an example, first week of June, I am scheduled to deploy for the month; who would watch my kids? If I send them back, that’s three years before I get to spend any real time with my kids. And yes three years where I would miss my wife regardless of the crap from the last several months. 

She appears to be in the phase of needing attention at the moment. Some of her Facebook messages to some of Our friends make it seem like I’m making her life hard leading them to offer kind words and support. She doesn’t actually say anything bad, but she does avoid stating WHY things are bad. So now her friends scowl at me and I only stand back and wish I could tell them to flip the page and read the other side of the story to why my wife is currently stressed out. I don’t because I’m sure if I did, her friends would be pissed with her and she’d really be alone.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Scotty, I feel for you. You have both contributed to the situation you are in and your wife is milking it for all it is worth. Time to stop playing around and sit down and tell her, either you work on it or not. it is very difficult to keep a relationship going when apart and will you ever really trust her as she has been out with guys when you were separated?

You need to take control of this situation. If necessary send her and kids back to the US. You have all sorts of ways to communicate, skype, etc It is not perfect but may give you both a chance to take time out and sort out what you both really want. This limbo is not good for either of you. Further, you cannot be the only one doing the work, she needs to also and it sounds like she is not doing anything except moaning. Tell her it has to stop and you both have to decide, work at it or finish it.


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