# How to get back on track / keep going at this 'happy' self, STAY ON COURSE



## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Guys - 

I'm sure there are other who will benefit from a post like this.

How do I 'STAY THE COURSE?'
I'm doing things for myself - I saw some initial bursts of good things from my Wife. But now it's like she's trying not to notice.

I know that's where this all stems from - looking for approval / reactions from others - it's just amazing to me how Deeply ingrained this is in me, and how Awkward and stressful it is to just 'act happy'

I seem to have a scowl on my face - feeling resent.

So - Calm, in control of emotions, confident.
I'm not feeling this at all, or doing it correctly.

I forget who said they had to 'fake it' for a long time before it actually felt right and came natural. ( Might have been Niceguy777, or MEM)

SO - tips on staying the course? Tips / experience on holding it together?

Thanks Everyone.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jonny said:


> Guys -
> 
> I'm sure there are other who will benefit from a post like this.
> 
> ...


jonny,

Are you in therapy?


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Conrad said:


> jonny,
> 
> Are you in therapy?


Conrad - no. I was hoping that this forum, articles, and books would help me kickstart - make it to a better level with myself / my life.

It had seemed to be working - and I know I can do it. I've seen true glipmses - it's just 'staying on course' not falling back to my old ways and weaknesses and reliances.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Jonny,
Stay the course. I felt the same way for two weeks. But each time you feel that way, tell yourself "I'm the only one responsible for my happiness. How she reacts does not affect my happiness.". Even now, I still react in my head just like that little boy sometimes, seeking approval. But it's getting easier, and really, I have a whole lifetime of my thought paradigm to retrain, so it's going to take a while. After a few weeks of confidence where I'm in control of myself, for myself, and my wife is starting to act differently for the better. She too went from happy, to not to notice, then to genuine love and admiration and respect. Not to mention all the recent sh&t tests I had to pass in between!

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jonny said:


> Conrad - no. I was hoping that this forum, articles, and books would help me kickstart - make it to a better level with myself / my life.
> 
> It had seemed to be working - and I know I can do it. I've seen true glipmses - it's just 'staying on course' not falling back to my old ways and weaknesses and reliances.


What you're describing (the deeply ingrained stuff) really needs to be rooted out. I tell you this as a brother-in-arms.

Here's the key to the whole thing.

There are any number of people here who will advise you on what to do. It's really good advice.

However, let me use an illustration from the "respect" thread.

We all define "respect" differently. In other words, we all have our buttons and when they get "pushed", we feel a lack of respect as a result.

THOSE are the times I want to grab a beer, right fight, engage my lawyerly "oh so reasonable" part.

The result? Self-immolation from the emotional hijack. In that heightened state, you WILL make mistakes.

From what you're writing, it sounds like you are doing well (make no mistake about that), but your emotions are still close to the surface. That makes you vulnerable - both at overreacting to something that's not vitally important AND in cutting yourself off from your own sense of humor and enjoyment as each day is a chapter of "Bloodsport".

Getting a handle on the source of those emotions - with a good counselor - and dealing with them (the emotions) will make the "right path" a boulevard instead of an alley.

Stay the course - absolutely.

Care for yourself - most definitely.

Forgive yourself - easier with therapy.

Just think about it.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Here is what I 'see', and of course, I may be wrong.

Your focus is still her. You are doing all of this ... for her. Not for you.

Sounds like you are still looking for glimpses of approval, positive change, a twinkle in the eye .... on her part as a result of actions on your part. You're putting the cart before the horse.

I don't want to sound overly harsh, but until YOU respect yourself, and work through or eliminate this self-doubt, the results of what you're doing will remain questionable ... for her.

Simply, if you aren't sure of yourself, she can't possibly be sure of you.

If she is aware that you are reading self-improvement books ... stop. Don't . Do not ask her questions, discuss with her, or read in front of her about this process. I don't know how else to say this. She is not a willing partner in this transformation you are trying to make. Frankly, she's not a partner in this undertaking at all.

She is your competition. She is your opponent. Her objective is to prevent you from getting where you need to go, and doing what you need to do. And all the while you're loving her for it.

This is why I actually recommend treating it like a game. This usually illicit's groans ... but if you make it a game instead of framing it as the life or death of your marriage ... you can be more relaxed. Keep it light instead of tense. Playful is attractive. Walking around looking like Clint Eastwood in a Spaghetti Western is likely not ... unless you are Clint Eastwood.

If you ARE doing the right things and she simply keeps dropping the hammer on you and your self-esteem. That's when it's time to evaluate if this woman deserves to be your partner.

It is echoed around here all of the time. Without respect, as part of the foundation of your relationship, you've got nothing.

So, do stay the course. And if you aren't sure what the course is, ask questions, or get yourself support in the form of therapy.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Clint Eastwood is a GOD.

I think what I said once was that my wife didn't notice a change until I truly started to feel different.

Someone (i think here) recently wrote something about women sensing apathy - and understanding that apathy is something to fear. When we're mad, or sad, or whatever - we're still invested. When they start to sense we just don't care as much - that's what scares people.

Always thought Love and Hate are not opposites. They are both VERY STRONG emotions. But Love and Apathy - those are the real two ends of that spectrum.

Stay the course. Therapy is good. Understand its a process - not a destination. There will be good days and bad days from now until the day you DIE.

Unless you are Clint Eastwood - in which case you totally rule and there are no bad days.


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## moonangel (Jan 19, 2011)

How depressing. So much work and very little progress.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

moonangel said:


> How depressing. So much work and very little progress.


Moonangel, gotta ask: what exactly is your purpose in this reply?

The OP asked for suggestions and ideas.
It sounds like you're discouraging rather than encouraging. 
I see progress, and I'm not the only one. Progress, by definition, is gradual.

There is nothing depressing about honesty, humility, and hard work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

jonny said:


> Guys -
> 
> I'm sure there are other who will benefit from a post like this.
> 
> ...


Being aware of your self-defeating tendencies in and of itself is a step of growth.
As Conrad said to me yesterday, that kind of awareness "is no accident."
I've heard that it takes 30 days for a new behavior to become a habit. It's all the more difficult with emotional behaviors and habits.
Lots of people before you have walked a similar path and arrived at a better place. You're well on your way.
They wouldn't call it "staying the course" if it was easy.
Rock on, brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

moonangel said:


> How depressing. So much work and very little progress.


Define "progress."

Real progress is going to be internal to jonny - at least for now.

Keep up the good work Jonny.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jonny,
I know of only one very simple, absolutely certain means of focusing on "you for you". And that is to spend less and less time with HER unless she is asking you to. And while not with her - do social/work out/fitness and anything else that is good for you. And DO NOT talk to her about it other than in general and constructive terms. I don't mean to be "mysterious" I simply mean there is a BIG difference between:
Her: How was your workout
You: Great - thanks for asking

AND
Her: How was your workout
You: Great - I can bench 250 now - up from 220 - and I have lost another 2 pounds. (which is the male version of an approval seeking question - "don't you think I am turning into a stud"?)






jonny said:


> Conrad - no. I was hoping that this forum, articles, and books would help me kickstart - make it to a better level with myself / my life.
> 
> It had seemed to be working - and I know I can do it. I've seen true glipmses - it's just 'staying on course' not falling back to my old ways and weaknesses and reliances.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Jonny,
> I know of only one very simple, absolutely certain means of focusing on "you for you". And that is to spend less and less time with HER unless she is asking you to. And while not with her - do social/work out/fitness and anything else that is good for you. And DO NOT talk to her about it other than in general and constructive terms. I don't mean to be "mysterious" I simply mean there is a BIG difference between:
> Her: How was your workout
> You: Great - thanks for asking
> ...


Yes, this is an important distinction.

Jonny, like you, I'm trying to adjust my thermostat and not be so "out there" and needy with my H.

I find myself falling into the enthusiastic over-talk with my H, and like MEM says, it shows that need for approval from your spouse (my H, your wife).

I'll then start muttering to mySELF, "WHY am i saying so much? stop talking." 

Conrad has said to me, when I say I "need" something from my H, such as reassurance, an apology, approval:

"Give it to yourself." 

I guess it has to start there. So you feel a little nuts "talking to yourself" in your head. But it can work. 

And the hope is...what started from the inside, becomes that much more visible and attractive on the outside.

AND MIGHT I ADD...

My HUSBAND was the one who got home yesterday with a big bag of fruits and veggies (which he knows I love) enthusiastically told me all about them, and sought MY approval: "Look what I got! I got this, and that, and this, and that...Good, huh?"


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

How did it feel when he was digging for that approval?

Inside... what was your reaction?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Conrad said:


> How did it feel when he was digging for that approval?
> 
> Inside... what was your reaction?


It felt nice that he cared. I felt reassured. It really made me smile inside.

I felt valued by him that he went out and got things I like, comforted that he got these things with the thought of doing something *together *(juice fruits and veggies, cook food)

And that it's a "thing" we share, it's part of what makes "our world" together. (not to mention he has poor nutrition and exercise habits, and high blood pressure, and i like seeing him do something to take better care of himself)

His enthusiasm over things like that is a turn-on for me.

But now that I think about it, I didn't really show it, believe it or not. I was busy working on something, and I kind of looked up and went "mhmm" while he put everything away. 
--could this be an involuntary attitude of a lower temperature? 

I could see myself falling over him with affectionate fanfare, "my BABY bought VEGETABLES!!! HEALTHY baby!!! YUMMY, can't wait to cook HEALTHY meals for us!" (yes, i've been known to deliver such treatment to him.)

Huh. Maybe things are shifting...:scratchhead:


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I just did something that pushed me right back into approval-seeking mode.
I posted on "general" if anyone doesn't mind giving me a little support as to how to pick myself back up.
Jonny, the occasional setback is inevitable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Jonny,
> AND
> Her: How was your workout
> You: Great - I can bench 250 now - up from 220 - and I have lost another 2 pounds. (which is the male version of an approval seeking question - "don't you think I am turning into a stud"?)


Is this something you do only in this type of situation, or would you share more when things are a little cozier between husband and wife. It's a constant struggle with me not to share every bit of information that I have with my wife. I see now how this is approval seeking. Like how much weight I've lost and how many miles I'm walking, etc... she sees the changes in me. I just really need to keep my yap shut as much as possible...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MNG,
It is ok to share more when things are cozier. There is a lot of boring minutia in life - I am not real big on sharing that unless she asks. That is just me. 

BTW - in reverse I will "listen" to minutia and remain engaged. My W is in this "super healthy" lifestyle thing. She likes to tell me every single thing she eats each day - LOL. I am proud of her - and we are ALL eating better now because of her. So happy to listen. 




MisterNiceGuy said:


> Is this something you do only in this type of situation, or would you share more when things are a little cozier between husband and wife. It's a constant struggle with me not to share every bit of information that I have with my wife. I see now how this is approval seeking. Like how much weight I've lost and how many miles I'm walking, etc... she sees the changes in me. I just really need to keep my yap shut as much as possible...


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## coops (Jan 24, 2011)

I've always felt you need to find ways to best support yourself. You're not going to get that confidence boost from your wife right now, so find ways to do it on your won. 

I've always been a believer in the idea of "look good, feel good". I'd always feel better, more confident, etc when I wore a suit or a really nice outfit. On top of that, a fresh haircut, clean shaven. All superficial of course but none the less this helped me to feel a bit more confident during the day. 

So.. when I started this journey, I got rid of old clothing that didn't fit well or looked a little frumpy. I stopped wearing "comfy clothes" when I was out or around the house. I hit the mall and get a few new outfits that I looked good in and felt confident wearing. This might not be your thing, but now you should be specifically looking for things that make you feel stronger and more confident about yourself. Who cares how silly it is if it works for you?

I built an overall workout plan, and focused heavily on my diet. When I was feeling particularly weak or knew I'd do something stupid like have a big talk with my wife about issues, I'd use that as a good time to go work out and get it out of my system. 

Week 1 - Body Language:
I decided instead of overwhelming myself with all these changes and new thoughts etc, that I would focus on 1 thing as my main focus and if I screwed up other behaviors I wouldn't get down on myself about it. 

So I picked an area that would have positive effects on my emotions and thinking, as well as create positive attraction from my wife. Body language was the natural first choice for me. Often times, despite what we say, our body gives us away. Standing up with big words setting a boundary, but having weak body language will instantly betray your internal thoughts. 

How you stand, walk, sit, hold your arms etc can all send positive or negative attraction signals. So for the first week, all I did was focus on reminding myself to change my body language. If I'd catch myself slouching, I'd sit right up. If I found myself leaning on things, I'd force myself to stand stronger etc etc. 

Aside from those reasons there are others. There is a proven brain -> body connection. Thinking a certain way can have a direct effect on the body. What has become very interesting news to me, are some studies showing that there is in fact a body -> Brain connection as well. 

In one study participants were asked to simply hold poses for periods of time and then the doctors would test their testosterone and cortisol levels. (Cortisol from wiki - Its primary functions are to increase blood sugar through gluconeogenesis; suppress the immune system; and aid in fat, protein and carbohydrate metabolism. It also decreases bone formation.). 

It was shown that those who held poses of power and relaxation, had increases in their testosterone levels and decreases in cortisol levels. A position like sitting back in your chair, hands behind your head with your legs stretched out had positive effects. 

It was also shown the opposite to be true. Those that held body positions of weakness, like slouching curled up with head down, showed decreased levels of testosterone and increased levels of cortisol. 

So I resolved myself change my body language week 1. 

Week 2 - Focus on language: 
I continued what I was doing in week 1, including all the working out, eating well, dressing well etc. After a week of non stop focus on my body language, it was starting to come into place and while it wasn't yet habit, it was at least easy enough to now add a new focus. I decided week 2 would be all about watching my language. 

I'm not talking about swearing, I'm talking about habitual use of words like "I'm sorry" for nearly everything and "I'm just joking" after cracking what was obviously a joke. If the joke is obvious why do I have to say something like "I'm just joking". Its weak language. 

I've had a terrible habit of using the word sorry all my life. As long as I can remember, people used to tell me "you say sorry too much". I'd say it for everything. 

So every time I slipped a sorry into a conversation, I'd mentally give myself a kick in the ass. Sometimes its hard cause you get down on yourself when you slip up but you just gotta push through. Anyhow, I pushed it to the point that even if I was wrong and screwed something up, instead of saying sorry, I'd say "I've made a mistake". Only if it was absolutely necessary and something that was completely wrong of me to do, would I use the words sorry. It really started to make me aware of the "weakness" that was coming out of my mouth with my choice of words. 

Week 3 Tone of voice:
Same as before, continue focusing on body language yada yada yada, only this time, I decided I would start using more powerful tones of voice. 

I've written tons here already but basically a lower tone is seen as stronger, more authoritative, attractive for a male. I wasn't aiming for fake, just slightly deeper than what had become my normal voice and being careful not to raise my tone around others. 

It might be an odd evolutionary thing but typically less dominant person in a conversation will raise their tone. I think it appears less threatening or something of that nature. 

I had a terrible habit of talking to my wife in a different tone. Almost childish. Its hard to explain but you can be talking normal to a friend and then you get on the phone with the wife and the tone just changes. When you're at the office, listen to other men when their wives call, almost guarantee you'll hear what I'm talking about if you don't already know. 

If you haven't already grasped, my first focus was on subtle power cues. I decided all the changes I would make would increase my personal power in general, and in turn would naturally leak into the relationship without directly doing anything to take power from my wife. Once I was feeling confident with these, I started to branch out and reestablish my boundaries within the relationship. 

You'll have to decide what works for you but take an area of weakness, whatever it is you decide and start to break it down week by week. Each time you can eliminate an area that weakens you, it helps that much more to build yourself up. If you try to do too much at once you'll just keep falling flat and beating yourself up for failing.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Coops,
This is yet another first class post. I agree with all of it. 

Just to pile on - tone of voice is incredibly powerful when used properly. If you use tone plus "aligned" body language - hell you barely have to say more than a couple sentences and you get a very positive result. 




coops said:


> I've always felt you need to find ways to best support yourself. You're not going to get that confidence boost from your wife right now, so find ways to do it on your won.
> 
> I've always been a believer in the idea of "look good, feel good". I'd always feel better, more confident, etc when I wore a suit or a really nice outfit. On top of that, a fresh haircut, clean shaven. All superficial of course but none the less this helped me to feel a bit more confident during the day.
> 
> ...


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## coops (Jan 24, 2011)

I thought about this after I had gone to bed but its an addition to the language thing. Any time a question wasn't needed, I used a statement instead. Instead of polling others for their opinion, I simply gave mine. 

Ask a question to another and you give the power away instantly. Decide what you want and offer it up, allows you to still sort out the issue but maintain your power base. 

Example:
Where do you want to eat? (power given to the person you're asking) 

I would like to eat at xyz restaurant. (Decision made, power dynamic rests with you. If the other person denies that choice, you can discuss and decide on an alternative, but you didn't instantly give the power away.)

Same goes for what movie to watch, what tv show to watch etc etc. Just catch yourself more often and you'll see it.


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## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

coops great post!

Just in my short journey going on week three...

It's funny you mentioned this staying positive, but just yesterday my wife turned to me (before her latest meltdown) and said something like "You look like you are having fun and you are upbeat and positive!" (which could've been the problem with her because I was so positive and she was going so negative, but that's another post)

What I've learned is that the number one thing is to get some regular vigorous exercise. I've dropped about 10lbs in a month and I have about 5 more to go to reach my target. (I wasn't exactly fat to start off) This has made all the difference. I'm sleeping better, I feel lighter and I'm thinking more clearly.

Not in any special order but all having a great impact is: eating right, drinking less, getting better sleep, surround yourself with positive people, dress better. It's the little things, like getting a hair cut regularly, shaving every day. Dress decently every day. 

One of the first things I did was go out and buy a bunch of new clothes on my own. I hadn't done that for years. It's very empowering and it shows you are in control. My wife was super impressed.

The big thing is don't tell her you are doing this stuff. Tell her is an approval seeking mechanism. Do it for yourself. She will notice and complement you (if not, you have some issues to work out!)

Don't lose your temper, no matter what. I've come very close but I've had to walk away or stay silent several times. Just keep your mind focused on the important stuff. 

I also agree with coops about decision making. I'm making way more decisions and not giving her the power. I used to always defer to her for EVERYTHING. Not anymore.

Be present, on purpose and take control. It will make you feel more positive and upbeat.

Anyway, that's some of what I've learned in the past few weeks. It's been very positive for me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Coops,
This is a great topic. Perfectly fine to state "this is what I want". The "art" is in how to handle the response if your partner wants something else. 

That said "questions" are often the most powerful response to an aggressive/unfair statement. 

For instance your partner says "I cannot believe you did X". 

Now lets say "X" was a choice that seemed reasonable at the time. Instead of "defending" yourself, far better to ask:

"Given what we knew THEN, what would you have done differently and why"? But this question can't be a sarcastic form of fuuk off. It has to be a sincere question. And you might actually learn something/benefit from the conversation if your partner actually has some good ideas. 

If they don't - likely that will be obvious to both of you. Much easier to critique - than to "do".




coops said:


> I thought about this after I had gone to bed but its an addition to the language thing. Any time a question wasn't needed, I used a statement instead. Instead of polling others for their opinion, I simply gave mine.
> 
> Ask a question to another and you give the power away instantly. Decide what you want and offer it up, allows you to still sort out the issue but maintain your power base.
> 
> ...


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## coops (Jan 24, 2011)

That is a really good point Mem. When I was writing it, I was in the frame of mind thinking of making decisions like where to eat, what show to watch, what table to sit at in the coffee shop, things like that. 

In practical terms what you're saying is absolutely correct. That way of posing a question can be the most powerful response. The key that makes this type of question powerful is the unsaid statement at the end of it "I will judge your answer".


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Coops,
I think we both see this stuff in a similar manner. My W told me she really started to fall for me on our first "official" date. We had been out in "group" settings a few times and I asked her out. She said yes. I had a very small place at the time - but it was clean and it had a giant window and a killer view. 

I picked her up. She got in the car and after a moment of random chit-chat I said "Plan A was me making you dinner. Had to work late. Life is full of surprises so I always have a plan B. You tell me what kind of food and I will pick the restaurant. She loved that whole "life is full of surprises so I always have a plan B". The thing is the word "sorry" never entered my mind. I picked her up on time. I had a good backup. We had a great night. 

She still loves it when I take her through a well thought out plan, regardless of whether it is plan A, or plan B. 




coops said:


> That is a really good point Mem. When I was writing it, I was in the frame of mind thinking of making decisions like where to eat, what show to watch, what table to sit at in the coffee shop, things like that.
> 
> In practical terms what you're saying is absolutely correct. That way of posing a question can be the most powerful response. The key that makes this type of question powerful is the unsaid statement at the end of it "I will judge your answer".


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## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm going through a lot of this right now. My wife keeps dredging up issues from the past. Just tonight she said that she can't believe how much I neglected our house over the past few years (I'm not talking about cleaning, but things like paint, the yard, piles of crap in the back yard). I sure did and I know it, but not anymore. That's just one example. But, these are things I know I will never do again. I've seen the light and I'm becoming a new person and my feeling is that she doesn't trust that this is permanent. 



MEM11363 said:


> Coops,
> This is a great topic. Perfectly fine to state "this is what I want". The "art" is in how to handle the response if your partner wants something else.
> 
> That said "questions" are often the most powerful response to an aggressive/unfair statement.
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MNG,
Best move in the world in that case is to nod and say as little as possible. As soon as you are by yourself get out a pad and make a list. Start doing stuff - and hey have the kids help you as it is a good bonding thing and it helps them develop a work ethic. But do it without initiating discussion with her. This isn't about making her happy or worse "getting her off your case". This is about being the Man of the house and getting it done. 

One exception to the "discussion" is "paint". I never do anything with colors without at least a brief conversation. Oh and since I totally suukk at color selection, she gets final say over anything to do with colors. 





MisterNiceGuy said:


> I'm going through a lot of this right now. My wife keeps dredging up issues from the past. Just tonight she said that she can't believe how much I neglected our house over the past few years (I'm not talking about cleaning, but things like paint, the yard, piles of crap in the back yard). I sure did and I know it, but not anymore. That's just one example. But, these are things I know I will never do again. I've seen the light and I'm becoming a new person and my feeling is that she doesn't trust that this is permanent.


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Is this something you do only in this type of situation, or would you share more when things are a little cozier between husband and wife. It's a constant struggle with me not to share every bit of information that I have with my wife. I see now how this is approval seeking. Like how much weight I've lost and how many miles I'm walking, etc... she sees the changes in me. I just really need to keep my yap shut as much as possible...


Good advice. Haven't been on a little while.

But yes - good advice - I'll tell her if she asks, but won't just offer up the information looking for a good job or respect / congrats from her. You're right in that's exactly what I'm doing - trying to impress her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jonny said:


> Good advice. Haven't been on a little while.
> 
> But yes - good advice - I'll tell her if she asks, but won't just offer up the information looking for a good job or respect / congrats from her. You're right in that's exactly what I'm doing - trying to impress her.


jonny,

How are you doing?

We all want to impress her.

We just can't ask for it


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Coops. Great post. Great. I'll remind myself daily to pay more attention. I have been, and it has bee giving me benefits. I need to work on the voice thing for sure - body l . . . hell - all of it. Thanks. 



coops said:


> I've always felt you need to find ways to best support yourself. You're not going to get that confidence boost from your wife right now, so find ways to do it on your won.
> 
> I've always been a believer in the idea of "look good, feel good". I'd always feel better, more confident, etc . . .
> 
> ...


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Valentines is coming up. I should do something right? Maybe this would be the best way to handle it. I would like to do the valentines thing on Friday, We can go to X to eat. 

With this situation / change - it's like I want to totally forget about it to see what happens. Though I know that's actually going across a line into a$$hole territory I think.

Don't get me wrong - I WANT valentines day, but i WANT to ultimately improve my position in this relationship



coops said:


> I thought about this after I had gone to bed but its an addition to the language thing. Any time a question wasn't needed, I used a statement instead. Instead of polling others for their opinion, I simply gave mine.
> 
> Ask a question to another and you give the power away instantly. Decide what you want and offer it up, allows you to still sort out the issue but maintain your power base.
> 
> ...


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## coops (Jan 24, 2011)

Valentines day is one of those social conventions you can't get around. She is going to expect something. The key here is to do it with a plan and execute it. Don't ask her for her opinions. 

Suggestion? Going out to eat is expensive. Restaurants generally jack the price on things and right now. You could spend that money on a new shirt right? 

My suggestion would be to research a recipe you can pull off for a meal you would like. I tend to go with steak when I make a nice meal. Get someone to take care of the kids (at their house), and have a home cooked candle light dinner. 

One valentines, I got some bath bubbles from one of those good soap places. So right before she got home from work, I had some music going in the bathroom, got the bath started with all the bubbles and candles all throughout the bathroom. So when she got home, I took her up to the bathroom. Then I told her to relax (this might be a good time to ask if she wants a glass of wine) and that I would come get her when dinner was ready.

When dinner was ready, I went to get her, she came down to a nice home cooked meal. Candles going, a little wine, a single rose (why buy a dozen?? =p). She loved it. I was in control, but thoughtful of everything. 

In your situation if you do something of this nature, just be careful not to be the servant. You're the master giving a gift of love to your wife, you are not a servant. Keep yourself in that frame. Think of any objections before they happen. She might fit test you on the spot. 

"I don't want a bath cause I don't want to get my hair wet" or something. Probably won't fit test you, but you never know. Think of something funny or be more pointed like, "I've gone to all this effort to give you a bath that any woman would love, and you're going to skip it cause you're worried about getting your hair wet?". The "Any woman would love" part is important. Sends a subtle competitive signal of "You can be replaced by someone that can actually appreciate it."

If you need to, think of some conversation pieces, that completely avoid any issues you've been having. Hopefully that helps Jonny!



jonny said:


> Valentines is coming up. I should do something right? Maybe this would be the best way to handle it. I would like to do the valentines thing on Friday, We can go to X to eat.
> 
> With this situation / change - it's like I want to totally forget about it to see what happens. Though I know that's actually going across a line into a$$hole territory I think.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I WANT valentines day, but i WANT to ultimately improve my position in this relationship


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I really like this. ALL of it. I will only add one thing. If there is any texting in front of you I would very calmly and in a soft voice say "hey" and just stare at her, the phone and back to her. WTF stare. If she does not put the phone away ask "are the kids texting you"? 

BTW - you damn well make sure in advance that the kids know NOT to text mommy - if they need something urgent they can call YOU.

So when you ask that question you will already pretty much know the answer. If it is not the kids it is a type of fitness test. "Will he let me deprioritize him during our Valentines day date"?

If it was me - and she continued I would get up and get some clothing put it in a suitcase - and leave somewhere for a couple days and keep my phone off/screen her calls. In a marriage to a W like yours you need love - but you also need fear. 

I have the right blend of both in mine - and it is a very happy marriage. 




coops said:


> Valentines day is one of those social conventions you can't get around. She is going to expect something. The key here is to do it with a plan and execute it. Don't ask her for her opinions.
> 
> Suggestion? Going out to eat is expensive. Restaurants generally jack the price on things and right now. You could spend that money on a new shirt right?
> 
> ...


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

We decided to celebrate VDAY this week or next weekend as things were too busy this past weekend. 

THANKS as always for the posts!

I'm going to call the folks - see if they can take our boy, and make a plan for supper one night - the bath and dinner sound great. AND - thanks for the reminder / posting about thinking of possible objections and responses. I'll do that.

I love the " I've done this, any woman would love . . . " approach to something very nice and thoughtful that's met with objection.

It was her turn to let the dog out at lunch today - I texted her - " I'll meet you at home 12:15 - I'll have some food for you. " Went home with Vitnamese - she said she had to get back to work quickly, I told her I don't want her to rush - take the food to work with her and enjoy it!

Was extremely positive - decisive - and it was appreciated - I could tell.

have got 2 thank you and love you emails from her this afternoon.

This past weekend we had some people over. the OM was there. ( It's odd calling him that - he truly is just a friend and I can see now I've got nothing to worry about in terms of 'going too far.' I still have to watch out for emotional connection.

Anyway - we get along well, like I've said. 

I have no clue how it started - that whole group was arm wrestling - girls and guys - At the end - the OM was top of the top. He called me out - said something like ' JON! you haven't wrestled - but I know you have a sore wrist - so no worries. ' 

New Alpha Male in me knew I had to do this, and that I wasn't going to lose.

" Let's try it out - I know you work out a lot, and My wrist is tweaked, but what the hell. " I'm pretty sure my wife said something like ' I don't know jon. ' 

GO. was shouted. I stood solid - he was shaking like a paint mixer, leaning, grabbing on the bench to pull. veins popping out of his head - face turning red.

I was calm, it was tough but I let on that it wasn't. I was casual - When he grabbed the bench to pull for leverage - I waved mine and put it behind my back. He looked up and said. " You ass - you're toying with me! christ!" I said - no - this is tough - how about we call a draw - stalemate. we went on for longer than any other match. But I made sure to remain calm the entire time.

I finally said that it was time to just call it a draw. 

He wasn't very impressed - I mean he was with my strength - but not with everyone seeing me without strain and him popping a gasket. 

Crystals friends were going out - She didn't even ask - I told her to go out and have fun.

I got some great sex when she got home. ( I was snowboarding the next day - decided to go to bed. left a note on her side that said " hope you had fun! you should wake up your husband and show him a good time. " )

She didn't want me to go snowboarding the next day - something about wanting to sleep in, relax all next day etc. 

I told her that I'm not changing my plans and that shes getting up a 8:30AM when I leave. ( said it with some humor of course - not matter of factly. )


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jonny,

THAT's what I'm talkin' about.

Stay the course brother.


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Conrad said:


> jonny,
> 
> THAT's what I'm talkin' about.
> 
> Stay the course brother.


Actually got an email from the guy - thanking me for some info / help I gave him on computer issues.

ALSO - him saying it's been bugging him ever since that night that I called a stale mate - and wondering, on a scale of 1 - 10 how much effort I was putting out, that he's competitive etc.

He's a good guy - he's a friend of my wifes, and mine as well I can say - and I'm not worried about things I was worried about.

I also like that he's showing a big Beta side.


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Conrad said:


> jonny,
> 
> THAT's what I'm talkin' about.
> 
> Stay the course brother.


Still staying the course man.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

Staying the happy course is much harder then it seems, I've been taking care of myself and feel good doing it. The language thing is killing me, not only the sorry's but I can't even say yes, I usually say yeah, right ? . I must have done it three times already today. My W is still on my mind 24/7 and this is causing a huge distraction for me. Trying to act the role is one of the hardest things I have ever done. Good luck to us all in our quest


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bill2011 said:


> Staying the happy course is much harder then it seems, I've been taking care of myself and feel good doing it. The language thing is killing me, not only the sorry's but I can't even say yes, I usually say yeah, right ? . I must have done it three times already today. My W is still on my mind 24/7 and this is causing a huge distraction for me. Trying to act the role is one of the hardest things I have ever done. Good luck to us all in our quest


Bill,

One last time. Therapy will help.

It's truly a mindset.

MEM has pointed out that our wives see us as "weak" if we approach them about relationship issues. Of course, it's fine for us to speak about it if they bring it up.

In other words - "ok to have needs, but not to be needy"

The same goes for the thermostat. If you are always in pursuit and she does something mean. Your pursuit does not slow, it merely intensifies as you try to "re-connect"?

You are rewarding her for being mean to you. And, it's likely you're annoying her with all the attention.

She likes attention. But, just as she likes talking about the relationship when she wants to talk about it, she likes getting the attention when she's missing it.

She will let you know.

I hope this helps a bit.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

Conrad,

Thanks, I am looking into therapy, I am not pursuing any more and have lowered the thermostat but that doesn't stop me from thinking about everything all the time. I am fighting myself to hold back and trying to watch my language. Have seem some positive movement on her part and at first this was encouraging but it also tempts to suck you back in which is my current struggle.

Again, thanks to you and MEM for the great advice as always


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bill,
You are doing great. I have one quick comment about confidence. People tell you all the time "be more confident". Seems like just a bunch of "air" to me. I guess I just don't get the "strutting pea**** model". 

That said, pick some stuff to get good at, or existing stuff to get better at. Stuff you want to do. In a perfect world you will have some opportunity for your W to "see" you doing some of that over time. While not doing it for her, it sure doesn't hurt for her to see you in the performance zone. 

For us: Banter, racquetball, and a word game we play - all result in interactions where she "sees" me excel. 




bill2011 said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Thanks, I am looking into therapy, I am not pursuing any more and have lowered the thermostat but that doesn't stop me from thinking about everything all the time. I am fighting myself to hold back and trying to watch my language. Have seem some positive movement on her part and at first this was encouraging but it also tempts to suck you back in which is my current struggle.
> 
> Again, thanks to you and MEM for the great advice as always


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