# At what point is enough enough ?



## Strongncuddly (Jul 25, 2013)

Hell, where do i even start ?? We have been having the same issues since we've been together for nearly eight years now. There is nearly no communication on her part to the point where she's basically at the emotional level of a child when you try to have a conversation with her about the relationship. No matter how many times i try and listen and understand her, she says the same thing "You never listen to me or understand me !" 

The fact of the matter is, she has more baggage than samsonite ! She also failed to disclose any of said baggage before we got married and everything seemed great in the immediate beginning. Or maybe the FIRST red flag should have been when i found her crying the morning after the wedding and when asked what was wrong she told me that she felt "trapped". Shortly THEREAFTER i learned that she had clinical depression and had been seeking no help for it.

She also failed to disclose the fact that she had ZERO sex drive and that her first husband apparently raped her because apparently she has NEVER had a sex drive and so they never had sex and he wound up having an affair and eventually leaving her for the other woman and now has a family.

So, the lack of intimacy or even sex PERIOD has been a huge issue with us from the very beginning, especially since i have a very HIGH sex drive. Even when we do have sex, i always have to be the one that initiates (and 99.9% of the time i'm refused) and when we do she literally just damn near lays there and does nothing, not even a sound. She makes it painfully clear that she's just going through the motions to shut me up.

Whenever i try to have a mature and open talk about our issues, she gets defensive and always says "Oh, so it's always MY fault !" as she never takes accountability for anything and always plays the martyr. This almost always leads to my getting the typical childish one word answers , dirty looks and the silent treatment for a few days.

Sexually, i believe that she would be perfectly content to never have sex again with no regard as to my needs or desires. Yet, she says that the marriage is over if she ever caught me cheating. Honestly, there are times when i want to just say "You know, i would NEVER condone rape or trivialize what your ex did to you, but i can certainly understand why he went outside of the marriage for intimacy and sex." One female friend of hers even told her "You know, if you don't take care of your man,...someone else will." And i have had other women interested in me.

I have thought seriously of leaving her. We were seperated and living apart for a year and i half (i did the leaving) over these same issues. I found myself still in love with her and made the first move in our reconciliation. My drinking was also a big problem and i stopped, in large part to help the marriage. She told me that she was going to work on her issues to make it better, including the lack of sex, but nothing ever changed. She even told me over dinner one night months ago that she was going to make it a priority to have sex more often.....we've had sex maybe three times since then.

Call me crazy, but one of the only reasons that i don't leave her is that i can't bear the thought of her being with anyone else; and not just sexually, because i know that part of her won't change and any other guy would kick her to the curb eventually when they learned of her no sex drive.

Damn near every time we have a fight or argument, she comes out with the "D" word, as she did just a bit ago saying "I'm so sick of this marriage, i want to get out !" I also honestly believe she's trying to make me so miserable that i wind up leaving just so that she can play the victim and tell everyone that i left her because she never takes any accountability for anything.

The only other reason that i think she's staying is because she doesn't work. I'm a fully disabled veteran and receive compensation from the VA and am on SS and so she knows that if we split up, she's not entitled to any of that and so she would be be forced to get a job and find a place of her own.

I just don't know when or how to say enough is enough. Another problem for me is that i adore her family and vice versa and even THEY know what she's like to the extent that her mother is often asking her "Why do you pick on him so much and always seem to be upset with him ?"

I attend counseling every week and when i get back she asks how it went and says "So did you tell them how bad i am and make me out to be the bad guy like always ?!"

I just don't know how much more of this i can take. I also do all of the cooking and most of the cleaning, which is usually never appreciated or told my cleaning isn't to her standards, yet she won't do it herself.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So she doesn't work, she doesn't cook or clean, she doesn't want sex... What do you want us to tell you that you don't already know?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

So you don't want her but the reason you're keeping her is so nobody else can have her?


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I gotta tell you, I could have probably written most of this post myself just a few years ago. Before we finally met a decent MC who looked beyond what we were saying to dig a little deeper. We were going to counselors trying to find ways to boost her sex drive, or figure out why it was literally at zero. (Not kidding, in our 7 year marriage prior to that point, you could probably count on two hands how many times we had sex, it was awful) Besides discovering a few troubling childhood memories that weren't tooo wildly bad, we realized that I a pretty crappy husband and she didn't even realize it.

I'm not saying you are a crappy husband. I just had no idea. You say she cites you for never listening, which sounds crazy to you. How are you listening? Do you listen to what she says and respond to her like a man, the way you are naturally conditioned to do so AS a man? Or do you respond to her in her own language, the way a woman would? When she shares her pain, concerns, problems, etc. are you trying to help her solve them? (BAD) Or are you just listening, trying to understand how she feels, empathize with her, etc.? (GOOD) She might not mean that you aren't listening to her, you are probably listening (hearing her words) just fine, but you aren't responding the way she wants you to. In other words, you might be hearing her, but not "getting it".

Also, stop treating her like a faulty used car. Saying things like "She didn't DISCLOSE" this or that, makes you sound like a disrespectful ass. You must respect and honor your wife at all times, and you can do so while still expressing concerns in a loving way.

It sounds like she is feeling pressure on all sides, enormous pressure. From you, from her friends and her family. Worse, she'll be putting a lot of that pressure on herself too. She's not clueless, she KNOWS she is failing you in her responsibilities as your wife, she knows she leaves you hurt and feeling unloved/disrespected, and she knows that she'll share a large degree of the responsibility for the failure of the marriage if it comes to that. I'm sure it eats her up inside. Dropping hints, bringing up the same old discussion or talking to others about it is all going to make things worse. She'll feel more depressed and worthless because she doesn't know what is "wrong" with her and doesn't know what to do about it. She'll also be acutely aware of the fact that she already blew one marriage over this. Even positive steps like going to counseling or going on medications can be difficult as it forces her to face her "failure as a wife" and increases the expectations for her for perform.

I think you both aught to find REALLY good counselors, and someone should ask her if she can identify any area's of your behavior that might make her feel supressed, guilty, shameful, controlled, etc. You might roll your eyes at that and I don't blame you, but I bet there is an emotional factor involved (how can their not be, she's female, lol) but you aren't aware of at all. Simply pushing harder, reemphasizing how serious it is or what the ramifications are, those things will only push her further into her shell of depression. I think the best thing you could do is open yourself up completely to her review and criticism. Invite her to critique how you treat her and how you could do better. She might need to do that with a counselor, without you present. SUPPORT her every step of the way, try to relieve some of that guilt and shame she feels as she works through the process. I bet doing so will feel like a complete and utter breath of fresh air. Empathize with her, explain that you understand how hard this is for her, that you will give her the time she needs to work though it, and you have no further expectations from her other than that. Stop pushing/talking about sex at all for a while. Let her remember that you LOVE her first, not just lust for her. All of these things will help open her up more and make her more comfortable, so that you can see what underlying problem might exist beneath, if there is anything at all.

Just my two cents. My own story would take pages to tell, but I see so much similarity that it shocks me a bit.


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## Strongncuddly (Jul 25, 2013)

I have listened to her MANY times and did all i can to be sensitive to her problems and concerns. The problem is that she takes no responsibility for her own issues and puts the blame on everyone and everything else. Whenever something goes wrong in her life or something doesn't go her way, it's always someone else's fault. Hell, the last job she had, if she didn't resign, she was going to be let go very soon for much the same reason and i knew this because i saw the progress report her manager gave her. I chose not to add insult to injury and support her, but the fact of the matter is that everything her manager had to say was true.

Her main problem is that she refuses to open up to nearly anyone, even her own therapists. She could be in a room with Dr. Phil, Dr. Ruth, the Dhali Lhamma and every top therapist in the world, and she would STILL walk out of the room saying that "Noone understands me and wouldn't listen." She will never progress until she takes responsibility for herself. Even her own mother has said that she's a child emotionally and when anyone tries to offer advice or even constructive criticism, she gets defensive immediately and shuts down saying that she must be a "horrible person" if people thinks she has any issues.

We go to see our MC tomorrow and i'm already looking forward to being blasted. Hell, ever our own counselors aren't sure how to get through to her and see how emotionally exhausted i am from trying to understand her and make the marriage work.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

When is enough enough?

Everyone's got their line in the sand.

She's definitely way across mine.


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## Strongncuddly (Jul 25, 2013)

Honestly, i ask myself the same thing many times michzz. When all is said and done, i can't imagine my life without her, because when we are good, i love being with her. But the cons are starting to really outweigh the pros !


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Take her rape claims and challenge them. It sounds like a convenient reason for her not to have sex with you. I'd imagine the reality of it to be different.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

So what was your sex life like BEFORE you got married? Surely she was the same way then, you HAD to have known what you were getting into. It doesnt make sense for you to stay with her just because you dont want her with anyone else! I am sure you feel that way because you are afraid that she will be different and better with someone else...dont let that stop you, because she WONT be different. She will be doing the same exact things and making someone ELSE miserable, while you could be moving forward to being with someone who makes you happy! 

And WHY THE HELL doesnt she work??


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

WHATEVER YOU DO, DON"T GET HER PREGNANT!

The only thing you are doing by not divorcing her and leaving her is saving another man from making the same terrible mistake you did so on behalf of all good men out there looking for good woman, thank you for not littering.


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## temperance (Jul 28, 2013)

Sanity said:


> WHATEVER YOU DO, DON"T GET HER PREGNANT!


Ditto to that!
Look at cdbaker post again. The more she feels other people doesn't understand her, the more depress she gets, the more shutdown she is, the more bitter she becomes.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

Seriously, don't get her preggo.. like the others have said. Divorce is likely if not inevitable, and kids just make it 1000x more painful for you and give her the upper hand in the rest of your life.

I have a kid, and it's the only reason I'm still trapped...er .. married.


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