# Is this turkey done? Letters of pain.



## InFlux (Oct 30, 2011)

Background:

H44, W42, married 13 years, 2 daughters 12 and 8. Typical marriage problems I guess, endless circular arguments, repeated history lessons, etc. Resentment builds. Upstream problems in relationship culminate in the bedroom and of course intimacy suffers. We try to work on issues (6 therapists) but wife is emotional teenager and can't see it or acknowledge it not to mention work on it like an adult. I stop caring, go dark, and go on autopilot. I start focusing on the kids and making myself happy. She flips-out in full-blown mid-life crisis mode. Estranged wife goes to Cabo in 2010 with girlfriends and flirts with Belgian stud on beach. Tells me nothing happened. I believe her but am angry (why tell me? wants me to get jealous and angrily *** so she can verbally berate me again for not doing it right?) Out of immense frustration I tell her next time she's in a similar situation maybe she should bang the guy and get it out of her system. Yeah, I ***ed that part up! Next thing I know she's in a long-term (2+ year) affair with a married man with a family she met on AM. I knew about it, called her on it and asked her to stop many, many times. We keep it together for the kids and start sleeping in different rooms. She feels justified completely because "I told her she could do it" and "I knew what she was doing". That's like telling the kids at Halloween to take one candy and they take the whole bag. Whatever. I wait for her to grow-up for a year. Finally can't take it any more and hit her with divorce which she could care less about. I ask for a couple of continuances because I need to get her employed. Gets job, starts getting more centered which I'm happy about but still has her parallel life going. Schedule mediation session and before meeting find a treasure trove of affair-related stuff (pictures, texts, letters, etc.) on a thumb drive. A trophy? I don't get it. I contact the OMW and send it to her. Don't tell the wife. Two days later the wife tells me "I'm done with OM." That's it. No apology, no explanation, no nothing. A few days later she asks "why are you so moody"? I couldn't take it anymore. Are you kidding me? I let her have it and tell her I sent OMW 82MB of stuff I found on a thumb drive. I also sent it to her family. She falls apart. I leave the house. I get the following email a few days later:

Hubby, 

I am so sorry we got so hurt during this stage in our lives. I am so sorry for all the hurt I caused you, being dragged into this situation. I am sad we could not see eye to eye in our relationship as a couple. I am very sad about it. You are a man with integrity. You are ethical. You have morals. You are responsible. You are true to yourself. I am so very sorry for myself I could not see eye to eye with you. 
As parents, we do a great job. As a couple, it seems we felt short. It sucks. I am so very sorry about this. Even though I am terrified for all the unknown of what is coming, the best thing I can do is make it easy for you so you can go and find happiness with somebody else, somebody who will value you for what you are and for whom you really are. You are a GREAT man. 

Hubby, I never meant to hurt you. I believe what was done was a desperate cry for help because something in our lives, including our marriage, was not working. I hope we learned from this experience. I hope when making mistakes in the future, we make different ones. 

We will walk all throughout the journey of this life together: the virtue of sharing our girls will keep us together, somehow. I am glad it will. You have always been my rock. In the distance I might still feel that calmness and stability, being the father of my girls. I am glad I chose you as the father of my kids. The vow “till eternity” will be the case, at least regarding the “eternity” of this life on earth. 
Hubby, we have to trust life. Life works out somehow. It really does. 

See you around, 

Wife


Yes, regret. It means a lot and I'm glad she said it. But I'm tired, so tired. My reply:

Dear Wife,

Thank you for the note; it means a lot to me what you just said. The affair you had with OM has caused me unbelievable pain. It was hard enough for me to swallow that he was satisfying you more than I ever did, but it was the emotional investment that hurt me the most. Fully-invested love. I kept waiting for it to end. I was hoping you’d realize that it was all fantasy bull**** and end it. I don’t know, I guess I thought you’d realize the grass wasn’t really as green as you thought it might be or something. I was waiting through vacations to Europe, trips to Palm Springs, etc. for the past 2+ years for any hint of recognition of the pain it caused OMW, myself, their kids, our kids, family, etc. and that it wasn’t just a fantasy escape for you two with no strings attached. There were strings attached and there was collateral damage. I am extremely disappointed that it took me blowing it up by sending evidence of the affair to OMW. I was hoping you’d find the strength inside yourself before it got to that point. That’s the problem with affairs – they only work in secret. I think you know this now. I recognized all this before I went down the same road and realized fairly quickly this was a road to nowhere good. It’s like their family coming over to our house and then you making out with their spouse in front of everybody. That’s the damage affairs do if it’s revealed to the world. They can only exist in the dark. In my opinion the only honorable way to start a new relationship is out in the open. Meaning you’d be OK at some point if everyone (family, kids, neighbors, friends, etc.) knew. The only honorable way then to start a new relationship is to end the one you’re currently in as painful as that may be to do. 

For my part, I’m sorry that I hurt you with my words/actions. I admit I have not been nearly my best as all of this has been taking a huge emotional toll on me. I shut down. Even though I didn't have an affair with a married person I did have a FWB for a brief time (2 months early last year) after I filed for divorce with someone in my same situation. I had no feelings for this person (or vice versa I imagine) – ours was a brief relationship built on gratitude and a mutual recognition we were on the same ****ty part of the road of life. We licked each other’s wounds so to speak. For me it was all about validation that I wasn't broken. That another young, attractive woman other than my estranged, *****ing, uncommunicative, unsatisfied wife found me more than satisfactory. It was about gluing back together an emasculated, shattered ego.

I felt we got to a point in the relationship where it was fundamentally broken and instead of dealing with it the right way we both got scared and figured maybe we just patch-up some of the symptoms. Like putting a Band-Aid on a bloody skin cancer. The Band-Aid might have stopped the bleeding for awhile but the cancer continued to grow out of control. I feel our marriage is like a body full of cancer now. I don’t know. I am tired. I am weak. My head hurts and I just want the pain to stop. I’m not sure I want to do the chemotherapy any more. Death, as scary as it is, seems like maybe a more preferable option.

I forgive you and you need to forgive yourself. I can’t forget but I can forgive. Forgiveness is a choice. There were some very bad choices made and the reality is we now have to deal with and live with the consequences. There are no easy answers at this point and the way forward is going to have difficulties. But then I guess that’s life isn't it? I’ll be honest and tell you divorce scares me. Not so much the act itself but everything it represents. The life as everyone knows changes from one instance to the next. I’d like to think in some good ways but also in some bad ways. It’s a rebirth into an uncertain world. I guess it’s fear of the unknown again. Am I sure the relationship we have is unsalvageable? I keep coming back to if it was just the two of us (i.e. no kids) with all we have experienced since we've been together – would we be with each other now? If I’m truly honest with myself I would say no. I think we both are here because we love our kids to death and don’t want to see them in pain. Especially pain that we cause. The guilt is suffocating to me sometimes. It’s a **** sandwich we find ourselves with at this point. I don’t know. I feel our relationship turned into some sort of sibling family love. I care about you and I respect you as a parent, but I’m lonely. So lonely. I think we both ache knowing that we each don’t have what we really desire out of the relationship. I’m not sure we ever have either. Not really. I guess it will be OK. We have strength we didn't know we had. We have to believe and start putting one foot in front of the other...

Hubby

Thoughts?


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

I don't think your reply was necessary, should have left her hanging. She doesn't really care about what you think or feel. Looks like she is blowing smoke up your azz so you don't go ballistic on her.

I don't get the impression she wants to be married to you anymore. There isn't anything you can do or say that will change that. She didn't once mentioned reconciliation or hinted in interest in it. R is not an option until the WS is begging for it.

Head towards D and avoid communication as much as possible. She may change her tune in the coming months but don't expect anything in the near future. Don't overthink this, just do what you have to do to protect yourself.


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## InFlux (Oct 30, 2011)

Does this sound like a Hoover? I agree regret but no desire to work on anything. Almost like she expects me to feel sorry for her and forget about everything.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She is blaming you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I wouldn't have bothered replying to that drivel. The only reason she's saying any of that is because the OM dumped her. You're her plan B. It sounds like she copied most of it from various internet sites anyway.

A short, to the point "Please do not contact me in future unless it has to do with the children" or something like that would have sufficed.

You're not thinking of R, are you?


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

"See you around"??????? That's a detached wife if ever there was one. You respond with a vulnerable emotional depth that she can't even appreciate much less wade in. Sign those papers and find someone who knows what adult love is.


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## InFlux (Oct 30, 2011)

No reconciliation in the cards. Honestly I wrote what I wrote more for myself than anyone else. It's easy to lose yourself when you're with an emotional child.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OK, well you already sent it. You could have just saved it and never sent it to her.

Chalk it up to experience, and don't do it again, I would say. Are you doing the 180?


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## InFlux (Oct 30, 2011)

Yes doing the 180 but it's hard at times when you're forced to come together for the benefit of the kids. I guess I'm doing the 180 as practically possible given the circumstances.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

This Turkey seems done It's internal temp is 500 degrees The USDA absolute D value is 158 degrees I would say it was done a while ago.

But you know best what you want

Endeavor to preserver for your love and happiness


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## InFlux (Oct 30, 2011)

So now I get the response:

_I am extremely disappointed that it took me blowing it up by sending evidence of the affair to OMW. I was hoping you’d find the strength inside yourself before it got to that point._ 

THERE IS NO POINT IN BEING DISAPPOINTED HERE: I REALIZED MYSELF THIS WAS A ROAD TO NOWHERE GOOD. FOR WHATEVER IT'S WORTH, I, YOUR FUTURE EX-WIFE OR WHOEVER I'LL BE, SOMEHOW FOUND THE STRENGTH TO END IT ON HER OWN. THE ROAD TO NOWHERE GOOD FINALLY SOMEHOW BECAME APPARENT TO HER EXTREMELY MYOPIC EYES. YES, IT TOOK ME A WHILE, BUT I DID IT ON MY OWN. I'M AS PROUD AS I CAN BE, CONSIDERING THE OVERALL SCUMMY UNDESIRABLE SITUATION.

AS CRAZY AS ME NOT LYING TO YOU WHILE DOING WHAT I DID MAY SOUND (I.E. THE FACT OF KNOWING THAT TRANSPARENCY EXISTED) ALLOWS ME SLEEP AT NIGHT, THE FEW HOURS I'VE BEEN ABLE TO SLEEP LATELY. 

_That’s the problem with affairs – they only work in secret. 
_
THE PROBLEM WITH AFFAIRS IS TO START ONE. THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM BEGINS, AT LEAST IN MY PERSPECTIVE. 

_In my opinion the only honorable way to start a new relationship is out in the open. Meaning you’d be OK at some point if everyone (family, kids, neighbors, friends, etc.) knew. The only honorable way then to start a new relationship is to end the one you’re currently in as painful as that may be to do._ 

THIS CANNOT BE SAID ANY BETTER: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

_Even though I didn't have an affair with a married person..._

BEING WITH A MARRIED PERSON IS WRONG. GETTING EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED IS WRONG AND A TREMENDOUS MISTAKE. IN MOST CASES, IT LEADS TO NOWHERE. PEOPLE ARE HANGING HERE, THERE, AND NOWHERE. 

_For me it was all about validation that I wasn't broken._ 

HUBBY, AGAIN, FOR WHATEVER IT'S WORTH, YOU ARE ***NOT*** PHYSICALLY BROKEN. I KNOW YOU ARE NOT. WE SEEM TO BE "BROKEN" TOGETHER SO TO SPEAK. WE ARE NOT INDIVIDUALLY BROKEN. 

_...it was the emotional investment that hurt me the most. Fully-invested love. 
_

TO KEEP OUR HONESTY INTACT, THIS IS WHAT SCARES ME ABOUT ME AND WHAT HAPPENED THE MOST. THAT I WAS FULLY INVESTED. 

_That another young, attractive woman other than my estranged, *****ing, uncommunicative, unsatisfied wife found me more than satisfactory. It was about gluing back together an emasculated, shattered ego._

YOU ARE A GREAT MAN AND YOU ARE PHYSICALLY FULLY FUNCTIONAL. WE MIGHT JUST HAVE TO COME TO TERMS TO THE FACT THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE NO CHEMISTRY BETWEEN US. I WISH I COULD SAY OTHERWISE. I HONESTLY DO. IT'D BE MUCH BETTER FOR THE FAMILY. 

HUBBY, WE DO HAVE SOME THINGS IN COMMON: SOME OF OUR BELIEFS ARE THE SAME. E.G. WE LIKE BEING TRUE TO OURSELVES. THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I BELIEVE WE ARE AND WILL BE GREAT CO-PARENTS. THIS CHARACTERISTIC IS RARE TODAY (BEING TRUE TO ONESELF). WE, HUMANS, DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START WITH IT. WE GET TOO SCARED, TOO EASILY. AFTER SO MUCH PAIN, I BELIEVE WE UNDERSTOOD MUCH OF WHAT THIS MEANS. 




I forgot to mention she has a MASSIVE chip on her shoulder. She acknowledges the pain but refuses to admit she was the one that caused it or even had any role in it. That's what we kept coming across in therapy: no personal ownership of her stuff. Whatever. I'm done with the prideful, pseudo-intellectual woman-child.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Stop engaging in nonsense email battles. It's futile. it will only get you hooked up in despair forever.
Keep the 180.
Divorce the unrepetant cheater.

She ended it on her own? Hilarious.
If this is the level of delusion, pride and gaslighting she carried herself for your entire marriage it's no wonder you are so beated up, almost to the point of stockholm syndrome.

... and the fact she did openly (after you caught her, of course) is what helps her to sleep in the nights... that piece is even more hilarious. First becuase is a complet fabrication of her head, second becasue she mistakes "honesty" with integrity. WEhat about the other family, what about the message sent to yours? Pathetic.

It's a shame you didn't manage to expose this as soon as you caught her.

Better days are to come, man, after to get id of the drop weight. From now on ignore everything she says except for practical things. Closre won't come from her. When you must engage with her imagine her with the face of a 6 years old having a tantrum. YTou won't be that mistaken.


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## InFlux (Oct 30, 2011)

Acabado said:


> When you must engage with her imagine her with the face of a 6 years old having a tantrum. You won't be that mistaken.


Ain't that the truth! It took me a long time to realize I was, in fact, dealing with a child in an adult's body. Once I had that revelation all the behavior made sense. Problem is that most adults want relationships with other adults and not children!


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