# are more lies normal?



## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

Even "small" ones from the WS? I could feel it was odd he wasan hour late last Wed. I actually told him it caused me to trigger and he basically apologized and said he would remember in the future to contact me and gave me a specific client he was working with. Friday I STILL feel at odds and he gets defensive and we have a deep conversation and all gets set right. Sunday i feel odds. Today i glance at his phone and dates and times with client don't match. I confront and stay surprisingly calm and he deny's...LSS he stayed at work to watch porn. 
I'm numb. I hate porn, but I don't leave over it. I gave him 5 opportunities to confess. So now i am dealing with yet another lie. So in R do they just lie lots about little things that they think will be bigger to avoid confrontation? I can't believe its a lie over porn!?!?!?! (I do hate porn, but our best friends love it and they are our best friends still).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

If he's lying, then he's not being transparent, which is crucial in reconciliation.
You are probably only catching some of the lies...


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Once you've cheated you no longer have the leeway of "little white lies" every lie, no matter the significance is a major deal. As Dan said, transparency is transparency - it's not opaque. 

You asked if it was "normal" - sadly probably so, but it is not acceptable.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

Thanks...I'm just "tired." If that makes sense? I'm doing all the heavy: reading about how to truly R the right way this time, trying to talk when I have a fear or problem, act happy and be strong for us both and our kids, and point out when something isn't right. He started the book "Not Just Friends" then said that it doesn't apply to him and I'm making him out to be an adulterer. 
He ended up saying that he couldn't tell me about the porn and in his mind it was best to keep it a secret. What KILLS me and makes me want to stop trying is the lies. I do hate porn, I feel like he is cheating if he watches it, but we haven't had that conversation in 5+ years and honestly based on the last 2 porn would be the least of my problems. I think I would have even laughed in relief he wasn't contacting the OW. I feel like I'm on a ride and I just want OFF.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Then get off the ride.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I think somewhere along the line the lying becomes habitual and its something that needs to be actively combated on his part. I know this has been an issue with my H. He lied so he could keep up w/what he wanted to do behind my back. He lied so I would shut up basically. It becomes second nature. They have to want to stop.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Sounds like your husband is a "get out of trouble" liar. What I've found is that with someone like this, it really doesn't matter whether or not they'd _actually_ get "in trouble" for whatever they're lying to cover up. What matters is that they feel the need to avoid any conflict of any type or degree while doing whatever they want regardless of how you feel. 

Without a committed effort on his part, the lies won't stop. There's really nothing you can do to stop them, because his lying isn't about you or about your relationship or your behaviors. The lies are about him and his issues.

So, I agree with That Girl. All you can do is decide that you are getting off the merry-go-round. And then actually _get off _of it.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

He said again to me this AM in an email that he really "thought" he was doing the right thing to avoid conflict since we've had a such positive progress over the last week. And now he realizes how hurt and focused I am on the lie part that in the future he he just won't lie and will face the consequences and will give me a chance to be mad or not.
So ya'll are right and now I just need to decide if these are road bumps in recovery or if I just Get Off!
Thanks...I'm just beyond confused. My brain may swell.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

It takes some a long time to realize that lies (even lying by omission, or lying to avoid conflict) are still LIES, and lies do massive damage, especially to a couple trying to reconcile.

The thing is, he keeps getting away with it. So what are you going to do? He's learned that he will lie, you will get mad, and beyond that, nothing happens. There has to be a consequence, here.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Is this your FIRST confrontation about the lying and how it bothers you and your ability to move forward?


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Is this your FIRST confrontation about the lying and how it bothers you and your ability to move forward?


I don't know, I mean I feel like I'm the one now in a "fog." I guess it is, but then again not. Like others on DDay I didn't get truth, then slowly I get little truths here and there. Even last night he told me something new about his EA (which he STILL says wasn't an EA). So I guess I have told him a few days ago that he has to tell EVERYTHING and to stop the lies bc he isn't keeping them straight now??? But I'm realizing we SUCK at communication. 

Thanks CandieGirl: I agree and I need to learn how to act (God at 38 and 21 years of marriage you would think I could be mature enough to know???)


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I maintain that the real damage of infidelity has very little to do with the physical act of cheating. The core evil, the real betrayal is the lies.

I mean we are all human, we all have wants and desires and we all have weaknesses. I can understand and learn to forgive the cheating, the lies on the other hand... those are the real mountain to climb over. 

Even if the cheating stops, If the lies continue... there is no healing, there is no fixing and there will never be true reconcilation. It's just coping until you finally break.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

thanks Pit...you summed up what I "tried" to say last night to him. I am gonna steal your words for mc today! I broke last night told him I'm done, but now I regret it. I Love him so much and the idea of us and the fact we are finally empty nesters in a month and will have grandkids someday...blah blah...
crap though bc this is what I KEEP doing and like Candie said he has had no consequences. My mom would be so disappointed in me right now-she raised me strong and independent and to never rely on a man for happiness and success.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Ingalls said:


> He said again to me this AM in an email that he really "thought" he was doing the right thing to avoid conflict since we've had a such positive progress over the last week. And now he realizes how hurt and focused I am on the lie part that in the future he he just won't lie and will face the consequences and will give me a chance to be mad or not.
> So ya'll are right and now I just need to decide if these are road bumps in recovery or if I just Get Off!
> Thanks...I'm just beyond confused. My brain may swell.


My H had an abusive father and he learned at an early age that lying would get him out of trouble, and help avoid conflict. This was the most salient factor in his A. He felt unloved all his life, so when our relationship entered the doldrums he interpreted that as another indication that he was not loved or appreciated. He shut me out; hid his anger, and encouraged me to think that everything was fine with us in order to avoid conflict. He then started confiding in OW when she began to mention her own delusional thinking about her marriage. He never mentioned to me that he was working closely with this person; never even mentioned her name. After d day he lied to cover the extent of their evolvement. He represented it as a brief and almost accidental mistake that occurred while they were on a five day training trip out of town. Their relationship lasted for nearly a year, nine months of which was PA. He saw himself as ill used ,by me and has clung to aspects of that till recently. It is very difficult to work on a relationship with a person who sees you as the reason they strayed, but slowly he has come to understand that his A was a result of childhood issues that he brought into the relationship. I am no longer the villain, but his failure to accept the full responsibility for his own choices has done a great deal of additional damage to our relationship. It's so sad when cheaters continue to lie to themselves and others.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Ingalls said:


> thanks Pit...you summed up what I "tried" to say last night to him. I am gonna steal your words for mc today! I broke last night told him I'm done, but now I regret it. I Love him so much and the idea of us and the fact we are finally empty nesters in a month and will have grandkids someday...blah blah...
> crap though bc this is what I KEEP doing and like Candie said he has had no consequences. My mom would be so disappointed in me right now-she raised me strong and independent and to never rely on a man for happiness and success.


I'm still learning myself...the consequence for my husband and his crap is that I'm 'done' trying to work on the relationship...since I am doing it all alone (or doing all the heavy lifting as they call it here), it's pointless! He gets all the benefits of me working my arse off, trying to make everything perfect. Well, no more. He's changed his tune suddenly; all weekend, he was much more attentive than he usually is. Why? Because I haven't been catering to him or to the marriage and I spooked him. Now, I just have to make sure I keep at it, as I don't want him going back into the comfort zone again.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Because I haven't been catering to him or to the marriage and I spooked him. Now, I just have to make sure I keep at it, as I don't want him going back into the comfort zone again.


thanks...will you explain what your doing to stop catering? I mean like ignoring him/conversation, sex, laughing, dates, etc? Tonight we will go to dinner after MC and we will probably find a patio to sit at and have margarita's. Is that catering?? I LOVE doing this sort of thing and so if I don't do this then I'm miserable. Make sense?

I definitely think your right on consequences. I can feel it...like I felt in my gut when something wasn't right!


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## harpongs (Apr 10, 2012)

No more lies on top of lies are not normal.

Don't kid yourself, without honesty and trust you've got nothing.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> I'm still learning myself...the consequence for my husband and his crap is that I'm 'done' trying to work on the relationship...since I am doing it all alone (or doing all the heavy lifting as they call it here), it's pointless! He gets all the benefits of me working my arse off, trying to make everything perfect. Well, no more. He's changed his tune suddenly; all weekend, he was much more attentive than he usually is. Why? Because I haven't been catering to him or to the marriage and I spooked him. Now, I just have to make sure I keep at it, as I don't want him going back into the comfort zone again.


see this is what I just dont get. I was just thinking this last night. I spent years busting a$$ in my marriage. Making him number one while he made himself number one. Now that the cats out of the bag so to speak and Im not busting my a$$ quite as much he is bending over backwards. Its like they only want you when they cant have you???


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## Charmlady (Feb 29, 2012)

I am dealing with H lying too -- about some little stuff, some bigger stuff (like live porn)l... I am beginning to think, its a way of life for some -- they don't know anything else... The bad part is he was caught in a lie already, so we went to MC, and they said basically, look you have to be totally transparent...no secrets no lies to rebuild the trust...what does he do? Still lies......so either he doesnt know how to be honest or its just a way of life for him or he really doesnt give a crap about saving the marriage... I dunno, if you figure it out, let me know


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

my stbxh is one of thoes liars caught him EA... lies continued thru false R. every once in a while would get the truth. even after he left and we are getting a divorce he still lies to my face any time he thinks i will be upset about something. i think they are somewhat like children, if they think they can get away with it they will lie to avoid the conflict their actions cause. was he a liar before the EA? mine was but always thought it was just certain things like money. good luck i have learned a liar dosent change and its hard to R when trust was already broken then the lies continue. thats why mine is stbxh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

the MC last night asked him why he felt it was ok to lie (not reprimanding him or anything-just asking his feelings) and he said because she thinks porn is cheating and since things are going good I didn't want to hurt her or the progress we've made. she says "he is protecting you, and this isn't a BAD thing." But then told him do you see the destruction your lie caused? Of course he said yes and that next time he wouldn't lie. Face the music so to speak.

This was 5 years ago we fought about porn and I did have those issues at that time, but now after everything else porn is nothing in my book (well I think, I don't know because I went through so many triggers and fears since I knew he was lying that I honestly don't know how I would have reacted if he initially just told me he watched porn??).

Bottom line I was told that I will never know if he is going to keep lying. I just have to trust he isn't-because he say's he isn't- *sigh* and this is what I'm struggling with.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Ingalls said:


> she says "he is protecting you, and this isn't a BAD thing."


That is sh*t. Absolute sh*t. 

If someone tried to spoon feed me that rubbish, they are getting both barrels.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> That is sh*t. Absolute sh*t.
> 
> If someone tried to spoon feed me that rubbish, they are getting both barrels.


I feel like she is the mediator??? She did follow up with you have stop telling lies even if you had good intentions. We both talked afterwards and he took it like that too bc at first I was angry and said that what she said wasn't right.

I'm not being timid or anything like that. I'm actually staying on guard to not being naive anymore.

Thanks for your input Pit...I do appreciate it!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Ingalls said:


> I feel like she is the mediator???


If Im spending a lot of money and putting my marriage in her hands to some degree, she better be on board. In that instance (her statement) she is not on board. 

Let me just tell you what pops in my head when she says....

_"he is protecting you, and this isn't a BAD thing." _

*"BULLSHI*. He is not protecting me, if he were trying to protect me he would not have made choices that he knew would hurt me and that he felt he needed to lie about. His lies are to protect himself from the consequences of the choices he continues to make!!. 

These LIES do not protect me! They destroy me!. They destroy what spark of love and trust I have left for this selfish Mother F*cker!. I will not tolerate LIES and I WILL NOT tolerate being told that these LIES somehow signify him loving or protecting me!!* 

That was one (toned down) barrel. The other would have been a little more aggressive. lol.

Sorry Ingalls, I can't tolerate lies. They put me on hyper-tilt. You probably handled it better than I would have, lol.


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