# married man that dates others openly



## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

I’m not sure how I feel about this. I met a guy on a dating app. He listed himself as single but when we talked he said he was separated but not yet divorced. 

We shared a few pictures of our bookshelves after our first date and I became suspicious that he was still living with his wife. He explained that the house was for the children and kind of made it vague almost like the children live there and they take it in turns being with them. He said its a bit complicated and he will explain later. It turns out he is married and still living with his wife and two young children. The reality is they both date other people and they don't intend on divorcing. He said they don't have sex but I find this a bit unlikely. They are both really openly sexual people and have a past history of swinging and I found out on our last date they both used to sex webcam. If you have read my past posts you will see this is triggering for me.

So they both date other people. I did see proof that she knows about me. So all good there but the more I got to know him the more I got to see that apart from when he was with me Saturday night dates etc he would be doing family things with his wife and children. I'm very open-minded, I’m not ready for a proper relationship so I was happy to date him and felt cautious about it but decided that I wouldn't get too attached. I'm curious what others would think of this situation. He has been very into me since date 1. We are about to hit the 3-month mark but it feels like longer. We have had approx 15 dates. He is very openly affectionate, isn't afraid to be seen with me etc. 

I guess I'm not feeling as excited to see him anymore but feel it maybe to do with his strange living arrangement. It almost feels like this is just another add excitement to the marriage thing. He tells me how special I am and how he is falling for me but something just feels off. He has started to text her during our dates to let her know if he is coming home that night or not. The last date on Saturday night he spent a great deal of time telling me that his wife had her partner over and he didn't like the fact that the guy was touching his movie collection and they are now arguing over who goes out which nights. I tod him his life sounds very complicated. He disagreed.

These are not my values at all. I would think that a man would be more upset about a man with his wife of 12 years that his blue tooth collection. I know a lot of relationships are open but the more I get into this the stranger it feels. He wanted to go out for 3 months without sex to build up the sexual tension between us. I liked the idea of dating without worrying about sex but even this is starting to feel contrived and for a reason. We do make out though, I've never had him over to my house and I can't go to his because of the children, though he said soon as he and his wife agreed if they were seeing someone and it was serious it would be ok. He lashes out on expensive hotels just so we can spend the night together and it feels good when he holds me all night or we make out but the next day I just feel a bit off I guess. Maybe because he has started to return texts his wife to make arrangments for that day like lunch etc. I would be happy I think if it felt like both of them were living separate lives but increasingly I'm seeing I have been misled.

I’m starting to feel a bit a bit manipulated. I'm not sure if I'm being overly sensitive or my boundaries are smashed to bits due to my abusive past 20 + year long relationship. We have fun together but our last date on Saturday night I didn't feel like it. He really pushed my boundaries and I saw a side to him I didn't like so much. But I do have a hell of a lot going on at the moment. Red flag was that he said he would loan me the money to pay for anything that I owed my ex for property settlement even 100k! He has money but this doesn't sit well with me at all. I would never contemplate borrowing money from a man. I don't actually think he would lend it to me either but the offer felt a bit controlling.

Thoughts?


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## changingmale (Aug 19, 2018)

m.t.t said:


> I’m not sure how I feel about this. I met a guy on a dating app. He listed himself as single but when we talked he said he was separated but not yet divorced.
> 
> We shared a few pictures of our bookshelves after our first date and I became suspicious that he was still living with his wife. He explained that the house was for the children and kind of made it vague almost like the children live there and they take it in turns being with them. He said its a bit complicated and he will explain later. It turns out he is married and still living with his wife and two young children. The reality is they both date other people and they don't intend on divorcing. He said they don't have sex but I find this a bit unlikely. They are both really openly sexual people and have a past history of swinging and I found out on our last date they both used to sex webcam. If you have read my past posts you will see this is triggering for me.
> 
> ...


For me i think i would be scared of a STD if he has slept around a lot and may have been swingers. It would bother me that he is still with his spouse and living together. I can understand about being together for the child but i dont think i would date. Also i am a Christian and that would bother me. Good luck and hope it works out for you m.t.t


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

So at the very start of the relationship you are lied to he listed himself as single. Then you discover deception after deception.

BTW kissing is sex you can get oral cancer from HPV, so assume the OM is kissing his W who is also having oral sex of various kinds with God knows who. Also assume his W lies to him about how much side sex she engages with.

Tamat


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

The whole post is so strange to me. Have people really lost what dating is exactly? Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I thought the entire point of dating is to find someone to be with long term. If you just want a random hook up, theres different ways to go about that. Dating isn't it. Walk away from this mess. What are you looking to gain here?


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> So at the very start of the relationship you are lied to he listed himself as single. Then you discover deception after deception.
> 
> BTW kissing is sex you can get oral cancer from HPV, so assume the OM is kissing his W who is also having oral sex of various kinds with God knows who. Also assume his W lies to him about how much side sex she engages with.
> 
> Tamat





changingmale said:


> For me i think i would be scared of a STD if he has slept around a lot and may have been swingers. It would bother me that he is still with his spouse and living together. I can understand about being together for the child but i dont think i would date. Also i am a Christian and that would bother me. Good luck and hope it works out for you m.t.t



He gets tested after each new partner, is very OCD about everything. He showed me his latest test results. But I guess also if you are dating a man and he is single you are also risking the same thing. I have a friend who is gay and he said so many of the guys on apps like grinder tell him they are married or partnered men with female partners and wives. It kind of makes me feel ill all of this deception. 

I liked the idea of spending time with someone that wasn't too available like myself due to my current situation but I value honesty. I have asked him several questions and he gets noticeably uncomfortable. eg. you say that you are separated but you seem very married to me. His response was that they don't sleep together. I told him it still seems very married to me. 

With my current situation, I don't really want the added anxiety of dating but it was nice to be dating someone that I found I could be open and have fun with. But yes I'm seeming to overlook his not quiet truths. He even said to me one day on a date that has two beautiful women in his life. I turned around and said that's a very weird thing to say. He meant his wife and I.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Run!


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> The whole post is so strange to me. Have people really lost what dating is exactly? Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I thought the entire point of dating is to find someone to be with long term. If you just want a random hook up, theres different ways to go about that. Dating isn't it. Walk away from this mess. What are you looking to gain here?


That's the thing I think online dating just seems like one big mess of values. I am a sexual person but not at all into swinging or random sex. I liked the idea of having a long-term dating partner even though I love being on my own. I would prefer to meet someone though that is open to growing together but I'm not ready for that. 

Also I believe that this guy is a lot like my ex and maybe I gain an understanding of myself as well. The word no seems a hard one for me. I'm still way to submissive and nice.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

m.t.t said:


> I’m not sure how I feel about this. I met a guy on a dating app. He listed himself as single but when we talked he said he was separated but not yet divorced.


This is a MAJOR lie. Right off the bat, he deceived you. Then he back peddled. Then he justified. A lie is a lie is a lie in my book. I don't care to be associated with liars. If you don't either, it would be wise to just walk away from this. There is no happy ending here.



m.t.t. said:


> It turns out he is married and still living with his wife and two young children. The reality is they both date other people and they don't intend on divorcing. He said they don't have sex but I find this a bit unlikely.


A bit unlikely? How about just another lie in his arsenal of lies. If you believe he isn't having sex with his wife, then I have some GREAT swamp land I can sell you in Florida. 



m.t.t. said:


> These are not my values at all.


Sure they are. You spent the night in a hotel with him sharing the same bed. You swap spit. You go on dates. If what he is doing was so reprehensible to you, you would have ended it like yesterday. I don't care how much fun he is, this guy is a LOSER. And he sounds downright creepy to me. 



m.t.t. said:


> Red flag was that he said he would loan me the money to pay for anything that I owed my ex for property settlement even 100k! He has money but this doesn't sit well with me at all. I would never contemplate borrowing money from a man. I don't actually think he would lend it to me either but the offer felt a bit controlling.
> 
> Thoughts?


I've already pretty much laid it on the line. The thing is, if you took any money from this man he would own you. At least that's my take on this type of guy. Listen, drop this clown like nuclear waste. 

You are feeling manipulated, controlled, and probably (at least I hope) grossed out by this character. He's a predator. Don't be his prey.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

m.t.t said:


> That's the thing I think online dating just seems like one big mess of values. I am a sexual person but not at all into swinging or random sex. I liked the idea of having a long-term dating partner even though I love being on my own. I would prefer to meet someone though that is open to growing together but I'm not ready for that.
> 
> Also I believe that this guy is a lot like my ex and maybe I gain an understanding of myself as well. The word no seems a hard one for me. I'm still way to submissive and nice.


Sometimes I wonder why im sending myself to an early grave. The pure dumb luck I have meeting my wife at such a young age. I dont understand this scene anymore. I really just dont get this whole online dating stuff. Its all lies. You ever read anyone's Facebook page or Instagram? Its literally all lies. I just dont get it. 

Cant you like, join a club or something? A co-ed sports team or rowing or kayaking or painting or arts club or something. Actually meet some real life people? Man I'm getting old. I'm not even 35 yet. I really dont understand this online thing at all.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Sometimes I wonder why im sending myself to an early grave. The pure dumb luck I have meeting my wife at such a young age. I dont understand this scene anymore. I really just dont get this whole online dating stuff. Its all lies. You ever read anyone's Facebook page or Instagram? Its literally all lies. I just dont get it.
> 
> Cant you like, join a club or something? A co-ed sports team or rowing or kayaking or painting or arts club or something. Actually meet some real life people? Man I'm getting old. I'm not even 35 yet. I really dont understand this online thing at all.


I have to say I agree. I hate deception. I'm over online dating and I think dating in general. To be honest I'm more a stay at home with a cup of tea and a good book type anyway. 

lol rowing... maybe not but I get the point


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

How do you actually know he is not lying to you? How do you know that his wife knows about you? He may have told her you are a work colleague working on something with him. He could be having a good time with you while letting his wife believe something else.
If your intuition is telling you something is off, then it is off. I would suggest you dump him, surely it's not difficult for a woman your age to get a man who doesn't have all this baggage?


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

aine said:


> How do you actually know he is not lying to you? How do you know that his wife knows about you? He may have told her you are a work colleague working on something with him. He could be having a good time with you while letting his wife believe something else.
> If your intuition is telling you something is off, then it is off.


I have run across a lot of married men on dating sites and he doesn't show any signs of hiding me. He will talk to on the phone when I can hear his wife and children in the background. He is out all night on a Saturday night etc. I have his phone number and we talk for hours and there is no pattern to this. We walk around near where he lives holding hands having dinner etc. But it has crossed my mind that maybe he is doing it and she is not happy about it.




aine said:


> surely it's not difficult for a woman your age to get a man who doesn't have all this baggage?


I'm in my 40's so we all have baggage but I guess being really actually married with weekend family outings with young children is a lot of bag. He painted it differently at the start. It's like trickle truthing I guess.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Meh.

If you want to waste your time with some married scumbag who's in a supposed 'open marriage,' (and I still have my doubts about that whole thing) then have at it.

You ARE aware that there are a zillion single guys out there that just like *you*, would prefer to do the FWB thing and not have a conventional relationship at this point in their lives, right? You don't need to waste your time on some married guy in order to get that type of quasi-relationship. Why anyone would invite that kind of drama into their lives is beyond me.

Personally, I'd rather watch a 24-hour documentary on the perils of tooth decay than waste my time on a married low-life but that's just me.

ETA: I couldn't help but notice you completely ignored Prodigal's post (the painfully truthful posts are always the hardest for an OP to read) and she hit the nail on the head. Read it once then read it 199 more times.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Why would you keep seeing a man you know was lying to you from the very start? I just don't get that. I understand not wanting a serious relationship right now, but that shouldn't mean you're happy to accept a known liar. The fact is, you don't really know this man at all, despite dating him for 3 months. The only real facts you concretely know you have, are that he's married with young children and that he's a liar. That's not a good beginning for any relationship, even if it's a casual one. Add to that the "off" vibes you're getting from this man and this situation, and you should have been gone well before now. 

And, please, let me assure you that there are, in fact, 40-something men out there who have less baggage than this guy. You can even find them via online dating, if you look carefully. But it will require you to be very honest with yourself, and very selective about what you will and will not tolerate. It really is okay to move on immediately if something doesn't feel right or isn't compatible with what you want. You don't owe anyone explanation or justification for doing that. Boundaries are your friends, and it's probably time to really think about what yours are and how to apply them to your dating life.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

m.t.t said:


> I have to say I agree. I hate deception. I'm over online dating and I think dating in general. To be honest I'm more a stay at home with a cup of tea and a good book type anyway.



You say you hate deception. And yet, you kept going out with a man you absolutely knew had deceived you from the very start. Why? 

Understand that it's not dating, or even online dating, that is the problem here. The real problem is that you have chosen to accept something you say you find unacceptable. Again, why? 

It's not just enough to say you have boundaries, or that you won't accept something or that something is not okay with you. You actually need to go to the next step and do something about it when confronted with those deal breakers. Live your boundaries. Live your personal ideals, through your actions. That way, you'll never find yourself 3 months into a weird situation with someone you knew from the first date was a liar. Because you would never have considered a second date with such a person.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

TAMAT said:


> So at the very start of the relationship you are lied to he listed himself as single.


Unless "married but in open relationship" was a choice on the web site, he simply chose the option that was closest to his situation. I can give him the benefit of the doubt on that at least. 

Here's my advice to mtt: It doesn't sound like you know this guy well enough, but you obviously know him a lot better than we do, so you are the better judge about whether you can trust him or not. 

But ask him (and yourself) this - *what is the long term goal here?* For him to formally divorce his wife and marry you? For you to move in with them and live as a threesome? Or for him to keep you on the side, along with other girlfriends? If all you both want are to be friends with benefits, then go for it. If you are looking for something more long term and meaningful, it's best to clarify that with him now.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The man is a liar. The man has a wife. Don't waste any more time on him, RUN. Run far and fast. This is not the kind of situation you need to be getting into, especially after what you have dealt with with your XH. This is not a better situation, and that's what you need... something better.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

m.t.t said:


> I hate deception. I'm over online dating and I think dating in general. To be honest I'm more a stay at home with a cup of tea and a good book type anyway.


I see a lot of obfuscation here on TAM. This appears to be a good example. If you wanted to sit home with a good book and a cup of tea, you wouldn't be messing around with some dude who is a lying cake-eating cheat. 

Denial. It never ceases to amaze me. Seriously.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

Prodigal said:


> I see a lot of obfuscation here on TAM. This appears to be a good example. If you wanted to sit home with a good book and a cup of tea, you wouldn't be messing around with some dude who is a lying cake-eating cheat.
> 
> Denial. It never ceases to amaze me. Seriously.


I like and agree with a lot of what you have said but what I guess you are doing is taking my words and turning them. We don't really know that he is cheating as I said he and his wife both date others, I found out there is a swinging history and now a webcam history so chances are they both are just openly looking outside the relationship, openly. Most wives that didn't know about it would wonder who their husbands were talking to on the phone in front of them and most cheating husbands unless sociopaths would risk it.

I have been online dating for a while after my separation . I am an introvert who likes to stay home. I am going through a lot at the moment and I'm making some interesting choices I will admit, but you are not seeing that we are human and are capable of doing things that go against who we are. I'm so not perfect.

I had a really really hard time breaking up with this guy, I did so last night. This is such a worry that I should find it so hard to say no. The second date he found some of my jewellery and didn't want to return it. Wanted to keep it because it was mine. He kept it. Was this a red flag or kind of romantic, it was odd but I second guess everything including how I feel.

So no I should not be allowed out dating at all, and reality apart from curiosity I would rather be home reading a book. My picker is down the toilet I guess. 20+ years with an abusive controlling man that punishes you, makes you feel like you are not quite up to scratch has its lasting effects. Men like this can sniff out vulnerable people and I am one of them. Thus I should not be dating.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> The man is a liar. The man has a wife. Don't waste any more time on him, RUN. Run far and fast. This is not the kind of situation you need to be getting into, especially after what you have dealt with with your XH. This is not a better situation, and that's what you need... something better.


Thanks I agree. I really fell for the sweet talk. Since the weekend I'm seeing he is almost a carbon copy of my ex. I knew they were similar but the quiet punishment and control is obvious to me now.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

Rowan said:


> You say you hate deception. And yet, you kept going out with a man you absolutely knew had deceived you from the very start. Why?
> 
> Understand that it's not dating, or even online dating, that is the problem here. The real problem is that you have chosen to accept something you say you find unacceptable. Again, why?
> 
> It's not just enough to say you have boundaries, or that you won't accept something or that something is not okay with you. You actually need to go to the next step and do something about it when confronted with those deal breakers. Live your boundaries. Live your personal ideals, through your actions. That way, you'll never find yourself 3 months into a weird situation with someone you knew from the first date was a liar. Because you would never have considered a second date with such a person.


This is the question that I keep asking myself why I have no agency with men. I have plenty in all other areas. I give men all of the control. If they want a second date and I decided not to beforehand, the mear fact that they ask I find myself saying yes. Scary and stupid. I put their wants over my own.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

Prodigal said:


> This is a MAJOR lie. Right off the bat, he deceived you. Then he back peddled. Then he justified. A lie is a lie is a lie in my book. I don't care to be associated with liars. If you don't either, it would be wise to just walk away from this. There is no happy ending here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

m.t.t said:


> I like and agree with a lot of what you have said but what I guess you are doing is taking my words and turning them.


Nope. Sorry. That's not going to fly. Not. One. Bit. This is a married man. When someone married is having a relationship outside the marriage, be it physical or emotional, it's called CHEATING. This isn't about getting "permission" from his wife to screw other women. This is CHEATING. No gray area here. No wiggle room. 

Okay, so your picker is down the toilet It doesn't have to remain that way. Are you in IC? I apologize if you already said you were and I failed to notice that.

Please keep in mind this is about a whole lot more than a broken "picker." This is something you need to work through to figure out what it is that continues to hinder you from having a relationship with a good, decent man. Frankly, you KNEW this guy was a sleeze from the get-go. So why remain a vulnerable person? That keeps you in the victim's seat. 

Take responsibility for your life and your choices. Again, IC could really help.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

Prodigal said:


> Nope. Sorry. That's not going to fly. Not. One. Bit. This is a married man. When someone married is having a relationship outside the marriage, be it physical or emotional, it's called CHEATING. This isn't about getting "permission" from his wife to screw other women. This is CHEATING. No gray area here. No wiggle room.
> 
> Okay, so your picker is down the toilet It doesn't have to remain that way. Are you in IC? I apologize if you already said you were and I failed to notice that.
> 
> ...


Marriage means different things to different people but I don't want to dwell on that.

IC - individual counselling? Then yes. I'm not in the victim's seat, I'm well aware of what is going on and I' trying hard to change it. I guess my question to TAM is me questing how others would feel about this situation. Some people are more open-minded than others, some people like to judge harshly and some people are more open to different life experiences. The issue for me is that I am struggling to work out what is right and acceptable for myself.

If he is married and they are both open to dating others and I'm not wanting to find a man to cohabit with again then it's not such a big deal to me. Being manipulated and lied to are, but I seem to let my boundaries be shifted without protest.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

m.t.t said:


> I like and agree with a lot of what you have said but what I guess you are doing is taking my words and turning them. We don't really know that he is cheating as I said he and his wife both date others, I found out there is a swinging history and now a webcam history so chances are they both are just openly looking outside the relationship, openly. Most wives that didn't know about it would wonder who their husbands were talking to on the phone in front of them and most cheating husbands unless sociopaths would risk it.


If this is his idea of marriage, how would you ever be ok with this after what you just went through? I am glad you ended this, because this is warped, and I'm sure it isnt your idea of marriage. Most women would not want to be around a man with this kind of lack of value when it comes to his partner.



m.t.t said:


> I had a really really hard time breaking up with this guy, I did so last night. This is such a worry that I should find it so hard to say no. The second date he found some of my jewellery and didn't want to return it. Wanted to keep it because it was mine. He kept it. Was this a red flag or kind of romantic, it was odd but I second guess everything including how I feel.


WHAT??? :surprise: He kept your jewelry?? What a sick ****!



m.t.t said:


> So no I should not be allowed out dating at all, and reality apart from curiosity I would rather be home reading a book. My picker is down the toilet I guess. 20+ years with an abusive controlling man that punishes you, makes you feel like you are not quite up to scratch has its lasting effects. Men like this can sniff out vulnerable people and I am one of them. Thus I should not be dating.





m.t.t said:


> This is the question that I keep asking myself why I have no agency with men. I have plenty in all other areas. I give men all of the control. If they want a second date and I decided not to beforehand, the mear fact that they ask I find myself saying yes. Scary and stupid. I put their wants over my own.


You for sure should not be dating right now. Your mind is not right after all you've been dealing with. I am relieved that you realize this. If you arent already, please consider seeing a therapist, you have a lot to work on. I dont want to see another man take advantage and hurt you like your ex has, and like this man was going to, without a doubt. Scary. Take time to get to know yourself, on your own.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

m.t.t said:


> Marriage means different things to different people but I don't want to dwell on that.
> 
> IC - individual counselling? Then yes. I'm not in the victim's seat, I'm well aware of what is going on and I' trying hard to change it. I guess my question to TAM is me questing how others would feel about this situation. Some people are more open-minded than others, some people like to judge harshly and some people are more open to different life experiences. The issue for me is that I am struggling to work out what is right and acceptable for myself.
> 
> If he is married and they are both open to dating others and I'm not wanting to find a man to cohabit with again then it's not such a big deal to me. Being manipulated and lied to are, but I seem to let my boundaries be shifted without protest.


My wife and I are in an open relationship, and we openly date others. We are very honest upfront, either before meeting someone, or at the first meeting, depending on how things progress and how we find someone to meet. Lying is simply not an acceptable way to develop any kind of relationship, even one that's purely sexual - IMO. We believe in informed consent. Our concept of marriage is far from traditional, but we respect other people's vows, and don't mess around with married people who do not have an open relationship agreement - essentially, we aren't interested in cheaters.

You are not dealing with a cheater, it seems, but it does sound like this guy isn't being honest, or behaving with integrity. Now, you can accept that knowing it's the case, and discount it if your goals are achieved despite his lies and manipulations. He is using you, and wants to be used in return - for specific things. He may want to be in control, but there is no reason to grant him control. At the end of the day, are you both getting what you want at least for a while? If so, there's no real problem - but it may still bother you enough, and possibly create too much drama, to continue. You can always move on - there are lots of prospects out there!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

m.t.t said:


> He gets tested after each new partner, is very OCD about everything. He showed me his latest test results. But I guess also if you are dating a man and he is single you are also risking the same thing. I have a friend who is gay and he said so many of the guys on apps like grinder tell him they are married or partnered men with female partners and wives. It kind of makes me feel ill all of this deception.
> 
> I liked the idea of spending time with someone that wasn't too available like myself due to my current situation but I value honesty. I have asked him several questions and he gets noticeably uncomfortable. eg. you say that you are separated but you seem very married to me. His response was that they don't sleep together. I told him it still seems very married to me.
> 
> With my current situation, I don't really want the added anxiety of dating but it was nice to be dating someone that I found I could be open and have fun with. But yes I'm seeming to overlook his not quiet truths. He even said to me one day on a date that has two beautiful women in his life. I turned around and said that's a very weird thing to say. He meant his wife and I.


Excuse me, but he showed you what he SAID were his latest test results. And as he has already shown himself to be a disembler, how can you trust him?


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* MTT
. The second date he found some of my jewellery and didn't want to return it. Wanted to keep it because it was mine. He kept it. Was this a red flag or kind of romantic, it was odd but I second guess everything including how I feel.*

Is this a red flag????? I see it as a red flag with flashing red and blue lights, a siren screaming, and those European police hi-low horns blaring.

What it says is he is possessive to a point of being able to control you in some dangerous ways. I bet if you went out with him a few times he would want to control just about everything you do. He might even isolate you and try to run off any friends you have.

RUN away as fast as you can, now!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you need to stop dating for awhile. Get yourself sorted and then try again. But not now.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Not sure I would enjoy this. Yes, I like to do my own thing and not be bothered in seeing someone all the time. So when I would want a date, we could go. But then as the months go by, I would possibly find myself more into him which could hurt later on knowing that he has another life besides you. 

I do understand that it can be easier just to stay married for the kids especially if both are on the page. But usually, this is due to financial reasons as well.. If he has money, he should just rent an apartment. IDK it does sound complicated and you will always be second. I would continue to date other people.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Yes, you need to stop dating for awhile. Get yourself sorted and then try again. But not now.


:iagree::iagree:


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

m.t.t said:


> I have run across a lot of married men on dating sites and he doesn't show any signs of hiding me. He will talk to on the phone when I can hear his wife and children in the background. He is out all night on a Saturday night etc. I have his phone number and we talk for hours and there is no pattern to this. We walk around near where he lives holding hands having dinner etc. But it has crossed my mind that maybe he is doing it and she is not happy about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


None of this proves he is what he says or that he and his wife are in an open marriage.

He could just be a cad. He is out all Saturday night when he has young kids at home, that tells you that he is not a good father or husband already.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

m.t.t said:


> This is the question that I keep asking myself why I have no agency with men. I have plenty in all other areas. I give men all of the control. If they want a second date and I decided not to beforehand, the mear fact that they ask I find myself saying yes. Scary and stupid. I put their wants over my own.



Good for you for being introspective and recognizing this in yourself.


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## Froggi2 (Mar 29, 2016)

m.t.t said:


> I’m not sure how I feel about this. I met a guy on a dating app. He listed himself as single but when we talked he said he was separated but not yet divorced.
> 
> We shared a few pictures of our bookshelves after our first date and I became suspicious that he was still living with his wife. He explained that the house was for the children and kind of made it vague almost like the children live there and they take it in turns being with them. He said its a bit complicated and he will explain later. It turns out he is married and still living with his wife and two young children. The reality is they both date other people and they don't intend on divorcing. He said they don't have sex but I find this a bit unlikely. They are both really openly sexual people and have a past history of swinging and I found out on our last date they both used to sex webcam. If you have read my past posts you will see this is triggering for me.
> 
> ...


Drop him like a hot potato. Run like your ass was on fire.

Don't you have any Pride? He is a nasty gross human being in his behavior is just reprehensible in my opinion you can do better.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

m.t.t said:


> married man that dates others openly
> 
> 
> I’m not sure how I feel about this.


You're not sure how you feel about it?

If you are not sure you are already in deep trouble.

Besides that what's the point? You want to share him with his wife? Don't you think you deserve better? And if not why not?

Finally you are naive if you believe anything he tells and shows you about his wife. You already know he lies as he lied in his post on his app.

You are right to question these things. Read books, get counseling.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, all you're getting out of this escapade is a free meal? Not really free since he stole your jewelry. You're not even getting sex plus you have to put up with him pacifying the ball and chain on your time and listen to him whine about his wife's boyfriends. Seriously, what in the hell is the allure? Make a commitment to yourself to not date anymore losers and users.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I have no idea why you would want to get involved with a man like that with such a messed up life and set of moral values.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

I think the big question is why is he still married. 
He could have a very logical explanation. 
Get to the root if that first and work from there.
I know people that have been married for 20 years and there is still a good reason to stay married even though they are legally separated and have all the finances worked out and separation documents done. In some places, you dont need to be divorced to not be in a relationship still. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@m.t.t. you have been trained to believe this kind of treatment is all you deserve.

That is wrong. You deserve so much more and so much better!


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

xMadame said:


> I think the big question is why is he still married.
> He could have a very logical explanation.
> Get to the root if that first and work from there.
> I know people that have been married for 20 years and there is still a good reason to stay married even though they are legally separated and have all the finances worked out and separation documents done. In some places, you dont need to be divorced to not be in a relationship still.
> ...


He is still married as it seems he wants to be. 

I have become a bit attached to him, I'm trying to work through why I feel a need to continue seeing him. The sex is really enjoyable and is what I have been looking for or rather wanting so we connect really well on that front. I am getting feelings for him. I have never been in a loving relationship, this feels like one to me with the exception of him being married. I'm enjoying being with him, he is very loving and is telling me how much he feels for me he makes me feel this way as well.


The more I get to know him the more I find myself getting an understanding of his life and family situation. They seem to be a couple that have always been looking outside of the marriage for sexual excitement. They explored this a lot before having their children who are currently young. 

I have continued to see him but last weekend his children were away so he invited me over the stay for the first time, I was curious to see how the living situation was set up. One of the bedrooms was laid out a bit like an expensive hotel room 'including robes that he said she had purchased for us' He told me he told her that I will think that they are strange, and yes I was a bit freaked out by it. It's one thing to be ok for each other to be dating but this just felt super weird to me and I did feel like leaving. But I stayed. 

I also found out that he owns a few other houses so the reality is he has no physical need to be living there. 

Then the other night we were out and it was late he said I could stay at his house as his wife was fine with it. She was home and so were there children. It's a big multi-story home. Initially, I was really not keen on the idea at all but somehow I changed my mind and did stay and he stayed with me. 

It has occurred to me that maybe they enjoy the fact that each of them sees another person and this is just a sex thing for them. They are both voyeuristic apparently or rather have been with the swinging in the past. They both seem not to have any friends that they socialise with and I thought it was strange when I asked him about swinging that he said they wanted to make friends with other couples and thought that it would be a good way to do so. 


I'm going between being open-minded about all of this to feeling like I'm being slowly lead into something. I was fine with this yesterday but as I sit here and type this I feel like what am I thinking? He has talked about things early on like how he imagines me having dinner with his family etc He is looking at us longer term dating like years and not months. 

I would really appreciate your help in working through this! Is this ok? I keep questioning it. At first I was worried that the wife might not know, now I'm worried that she is laying out fresh towels.

I have only told one friend about this situation. She was worried but said that I look happy and as long as I wasn't going to get hurt that she could understand that it was filling a sexual need for me.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

m.t.t said:


> He is still married as it seems he wants to be.
> 
> I have become a bit attached to him, I'm trying to work through why I feel a need to continue seeing him. The sex is really enjoyable and is what I have been looking for or rather wanting so we connect really well on that front. I am getting feelings for him. I have never been in a loving relationship, this feels like one to me with the exception of him being married. I'm enjoying being with him, he is very loving and is telling me how much he feels for me he makes me feel this way as well.
> 
> ...


Be very careful.He could be filming your sexual escapades.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Be very careful.He could be filming your sexual escapades.


thanks Andy, 

what makes you think that? Would it be somewhat obvious? 

Thats one of the concerns my friend had.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

m.t.t said:


> thanks Andy,
> 
> what makes you think that? Would it be somewhat obvious?
> 
> Thats one of the concerns my friend had.


The bedroom set up like a hotel room is what makes me think he could be planning to make a home movie with you as the unwitting star.
OP your self esteem is in the gutter,why are you constantly getting together with this ****ing *******?


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> The bedroom set up like a hotel room is what makes me think he could be planning to make a home movie with you as the unwitting star.
> OP your self esteem is in the gutter,why are you constantly getting together with this ****ing *******?


Thanks Andy,

The whole house is the same. It's a super sparse and modern home. It was only hotel like because of the towels etc but also a new toothbrush and paste left out for me.

I guess the affection, connection and love and concern I get from him is what feels good to me. We spend days out together having lunch, visiting galleries, dinners. He isn't afraid to be seen with me, even in front of his own house. It's not just a sexual thing. It's a restricted relationship, but all I want is a lover. I'm still not emotionally available myself.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

aine said:


> None of this proves he is what he says or that he and his wife are in an open marriage.
> 
> He could just be a cad. He is out all Saturday night when he has young kids at home, that tells you that he is not a good father or husband already.



I don't have a good opinion of this guy, but I disagree that there are no circumstances where a father of young kids can be out all Saturday night.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

m.t.t said:


> Thanks Andy,
> 
> The whole house is the same. It's a super sparse and modern home. It was only hotel like because of the towels etc but also a new toothbrush and paste left out for me.
> 
> I guess the affection, connection and love and concern I get from him is what feels good to me. We spend days out together having lunch, visiting galleries, dinners. He isn't afraid to be seen with me, even in front of his own house. It's not just a sexual thing. It's a restricted relationship, *but all I want is a lover*. I'm still not emotionally available myself.


If all you want is a lover, you don't need to be having lunch, visiting galleries and such. Let alone spending the night with him while his wife and children are asleep in the same house. 

I have to say that you have taken screwing married men to a new level. There is a poster on this forum who may be in the market for a new girlfriend for him and his wife. They like to share. You might want to consider this type of arrangement as it looks like that is where you and your swinging couple are headed. You are like a frog in a pot of boiling water.

Don't be surprised if this current phase is not well received by any future beaus. Or, your family.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

This is not a question of why he is still married or still sharing a home with his wife. 

This is a very obvious one. This couple is looking for a third partner to fit into their lives and marriage.

OP is being groomed and interviewed to see how well she fits in with their family life. 

This is the making of a poly relationship. The wife has her lover that comes and goes. The husband's lover will be the stable one . The relationship will consist of husband, wife, OP and various lovers that comes and go.

If this is what OP is wanting then that's her business. 

However, if she hopes to have a socially acceptable normal relationship in the future then, she might reconsider what she is doing. Because it's one thing to work on improving yourself and quite another to be LED into what will end up being quite disruptive to her growth and development as a fully embolden woman. Who knows her worth and her wants.


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

Maybe being in a poly relationship will fast track your abilities to stand up for yourself and your needs, as you will have to communicate them and not just get caught up in what he wants from this experience.

As he has a wife he wants to continue living with, how would he feel about you having any other close male friends or lovers? (Regardless of whether you actually want anyone else at the moment - Does he want the better side of the deal. He has shown some possessiveness). 

If you wanted more in the future, like a vacation with him, would he be able to do that? Is he really only interested in connection, occasional dates and sex and are you on the same page?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Be very careful.He could be filming your sexual escapades.


My first thought was that they were either filming, or the wife could be watching from some hidden vantage point. If they are both voyeuristic, then you should be aware, OP, that she may be watching, they may be recording to view together later, or they may even be sharing recordings with others. 

The other option, of course, is that they are simply grooming you to be the third in their poly marriage. If you're cool with that, then great. If not, it's past time to cut this guy loose.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

OP, said she never had a loving relationship and she suffers from low self-esteem. 

I really dont think that a poly relationship is going to help that. Is it going to be a loving relationship where he trurely loves and adore Her? Or is this mostly a sexual relationships with abit of love in it? Being that OP is there because she fulfill one of their needs.

She is never going to be able to assert herself in a poly relationship. Because the wife will always be number1. It's the wife's needs and wants that will be consider first and then the kids, the family unit and then OP 's. They will try to be fair and considerate of her needs but eventually and most likely the family unit will take precedent.

Also, she will be expected to help with the running of the house and kids. As she becomes more involved with his kids.

She will be the third wheel and a babysitter. The only people getting any value here is the man and his wife. 

I feel like they have their plans and she is being maneuvered into it slowly and carefully. OP is being courted and groomed to accept their relationship and for her to accept it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Their relationship is open so why wouldn't he be filming to share with her and others (including online). It would be naive to think he isn't. If you're okay with that, fine. If you're not okay wth that, move on.


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