# Well, i have tried.....



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

over the past several months i have made a strong attempt to change things around my house. As most of you know i suffer from a mismatched sex drive, me higher/wife lower. we have some problems unrelated to sex that most people with kids have, to sum it up we dont take care of ourselves at all, its all about the kids. i am working on that too. in addition my wife has been diagnosed with a medical condition (thyroid) but is not yet on medication. my wife is also a hoarder which causes immense resentment from me. i also believe she is closing in on menopause. (im sure she could write a similar list about me)

i have tried to be more attentive, loving, understanding and i have tried to listen more (well not tried, i have done all these things). i have worked on being happier, more upbeat and display better temperment.
none of this has positively affected the frequency of our intimacy. we had a MAJOR arg/discussion 12 days ago and had HOT SEX right after that (her inhibitions were gone), we had ok sex 5 days later when i satyed home from work and the kids were at school. and since then i cannot get her to play along.

i am to the point where i might give up on this. its just too frustrating to continue.


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

I have been following you! It doesnt matter what we do to try to change things, even by changing ourselves. Our low desire spouses have low desire, period. DO you ever insist that she meet your needs, as many wives do oblige to please their husbands. In generations past, it was expected! 

I am adopting a new attitude that if I would like sex, I initiate the way he told me to and Its expected now. 

Our situaitons may be different, but do you really know what her true lack of interest in doing that FOR YOU is all about? Low thyroid wont explain a spouse who continues to deny something they know is important to their spouse... no medical ailment unless its injury where you cant physically do it.

I found out that myhusbands low libido was from him purposely denying and being disgusted by me because of how he viewed me. In essence he was using it as power/control/punishment as he knew that was something that was important to me.

I tried changing, but my husband didnt see any of the positives, only the negatives and created negatives out of some of my positive attempts. Perhaps you view yourself as trying and doing, but she really doesnt.

Just a thought, I feel you pain.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Coming from a past situation where my ex insisted I meet his needs...its not a good idea unless its her idea. I breeds resentment like you wouldn't believe. They become an object that is there just to service your needs. There is a reason the good mothers told their daughters to lie there and "Think of England". There was no enjoyment for them it was only duty. Do you really want to have that kind of sex with your wife?

It sounds like she a)needs to get on meds for the thyroid b)needs to talk to her doctor about peri-menopause c) go to therapy for her hoarding issues. Have any of these been suggested or are in progress?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

demanding or "dominating" related to this issue will not help (sorry BBW). she is an extremely stubborn woman, set in her ways i'm afraid. besides, i'm not in the habit of forcing people to do things they dont want to get what i want. i am going to give it until she goes on meds for the thyroid, if it doesnt improve, i'm checkin out.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

I recently read an article that said that most advice given about sex in marriage won't help most people. The fact that you had sex after having an arguement leads me to believe that her passion for you is still there, it just needs to be reignited. The only way for you to get that from her is to be honest with her and she with you.

In the article, the doctor had the couple say the one thing that bothered them about their marriage. Not the thing that was on the surface, but the REAL issue. They did that and the wife began to get turned on by the arguement. She was blown away by her husband's honesty and a little in awe. 

I think if you find the passion outside the bedroom, you'll have passion between the sheets as well.


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## mike1 (Jun 15, 2009)

okeydokie, I've tried for years different things. the last couple years have probably been the worst decline in sex (I now count how many times a month instead of how many times a week). My main motivation for doing a lot of things and trying as hard as I did was to get more sex. I feel like a dope because after all this effort I realized that I wasn't making a difference and if anything I was trying too hard. I was being too nice, too doting if that makes any sense. 

I would bend over backwards helping her with whatever she needed always making sure she had her time with her friends, I have always been available to watch the kids whether it was Bunco night or a weekend away with her girlfriends. And I did it to such an extreme I've actually withdrawn from some of my friends and my social activities. I would always worry she would get stressed out or upset if I wanted to schedule something after work. Then if she was upset that would reduce the chances of me getting any (at least in my head). 

I wasn't happy in general and my efforts weren't bearing any fruit so I'm changing my strategy. I don't know if it's going to work but I wasn't getting anywhere before so it can't hurt! 

It's wasn't and it's still not easy for me but mentally I've come to a place where I love my wife more then anything and she's my partner in every aspect. But when it comes to my sexual needs I've lowered my expectation to close to her satisfying that part of me to zero. I just hope it doesn't come to that! But I told her that I wasn't going to come onto her any more that I am going to be loving, etc but I'm not going to initiate sex at all, ask for it, hint at it, anything. I decided I'm going to start doing things for me - I've started golfing again, I'm going out more with friends, just doing more things that I enjoy and taking time for me. My life isn't going to revolve around thinking about what I need to do next to increase my chances of getting laid. Not at all... I'm going to still be a loving husband and father but I'm going to do more of what I want to do. I'm hoping that this change in attitude and demeanor may be more of a turn on for her but at the same time I'm not holding my breath. 

If I'm being honest I've just felt like a bit of a ***** in our our relationship, particularly over the last 1-2 years, and I needed to 'man up'. 

We'll see how it goes, good luck with your struggles...


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## Mwk (Jan 19, 2010)

I, like you, have been working my butt off to make things better. We are both over 40 and been married over 20+ years. Besides trying to romance her, I've introduced coconut oil massages, better and new cunnilingus techniques and finally a vibrator. The sex has been fantastic but sometimes infrequent. One of our children has spent most of the last part of last year in the hospital and a couple of weeks this year as well. How can I work to regain what was working so well??


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## Alexandra (Jan 9, 2010)

Not to excuse anybody with medical issues, but thyroid problems totally affect your hormones, including how you can respond sexually and how you perceive things. 

All of that being said, I also wonder WHY she can do it after an argument (and it was HOT), but has trouble with it later. Does she feel liberated letting her feelings out? Does she feel like you actually resolved something and connected? Do you only listen to her or validate her when you both get angry?

Just a few thoughts.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Alexandra said:


> Not to excuse anybody with medical issues, but thyroid problems totally affect your hormones, including how you can respond sexually and how you perceive things.
> 
> All of that being said, I also wonder WHY she can do it after an argument (and it was HOT), but has trouble with it later. Does she feel liberated letting her feelings out? Does she feel like you actually resolved something and connected? Do you only listen to her or validate her when you both get angry?
> 
> Just a few thoughts.


certainly things to think about, it is curious.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

No sex when you are attentive, and loving, and all around "nice guy". 

Hot sex after an argument, in which you stood up to her like a man. 

And this is still a mystery? :scratchhead:

Your woman is already showing you in actions, not words, the solution to this issue.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mike,
Great strategy. To really amplify her desire for you she has to somehow perceive you as less available AND more attractive. So you set up your schedule so you gradually spend less time with her and less time available to do stuff for her - run errands. And then when you ARE present you are upbeat and positive and keep it light with some good jokes/banter. 

This makes you more attractive and less available. Get her to the point where she says "I miss you". And keep her there for a while. Part of that is let HER say she loves you first and make sure you say it just a little less then she does. 

This creates some emotional space/distance between you. It creates room for HER to chase YOU. And she may chase you sexually. And that will solve your number one issue in the marriage. But this also means you need to MAN UP if she starts telling you not to play golf etc. because you need to assert yourself in a mature / constructive way. 

Me - I will ALWAYS agree to a written schedule - when we have conflict over my plan I just suggest that. My wife has zero interest a written schedule that hamstrings her. So in a friendly helpful tone I speak. But I have my facts and my determination and I get my way. This matters because it creates respect which leads to sex....




mike1 said:


> okeydokie, I've tried for years different things. the last couple years have probably been the worst decline in sex (I now count how many times a month instead of how many times a week). My main motivation for doing a lot of things and trying as hard as I did was to get more sex. I feel like a dope because after all this effort I realized that I wasn't making a difference and if anything I was trying too hard. I was being too nice, too doting if that makes any sense.
> 
> I would bend over backwards helping her with whatever she needed always making sure she had her time with her friends, I have always been available to watch the kids whether it was Bunco night or a weekend away with her girlfriends. And I did it to such an extreme I've actually withdrawn from some of my friends and my social activities. I would always worry she would get stressed out or upset if I wanted to schedule something after work. Then if she was upset that would reduce the chances of me getting any (at least in my head).
> 
> ...


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

BigBadWolf said:


> No sex when you are attentive, and loving, and all around "nice guy".
> 
> Hot sex after an argument, in which you stood up to her like a man.
> 
> ...


That doesnt always work.. My wife and I have an arguement it pushes her away. She shuts down emotionally because that is who she is. Everybody is different and there is no one size fits all. Some women like that and some get burried and crawl into a ball..


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

BigBadWolf said:


> No sex when you are attentive, and loving, and all around "nice guy".
> 
> Hot sex after an argument, in which you stood up to her like a man.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
As to why after some arguements the wife is attracted and others she isn't...it depends how you're arguing. Blaming and putting her down, she won't respond..she'll hate you.

Standing your ground while respecting her ground as well leads to passion and attraction. BBW said it well 'standing up to her'...not 'trying to put her down'. That's a difference i've often encountered in my arguements with my husband. 

From my part, I think your wife needs passion. If the medical condition is contributing, it is in the sense that it makes her ignore any attraction she has that's not very intense (aka sexual apathy). Bring on something more intense and suddenly she'll respond. 

Ex: you have a headache, so you're focused on that. A nice gentle pet won't cut it to get you arroused because you're focus point is on your headache...while if you suddenly see a very sexy half naked smiley woman running around the house, it will be enough stimulation to draw your attention from the headache and trigger arrousal. Hope you understand what i mean.Same goes for depressed people..they are so focused on their misery that they just don't shift their attention to the other person enough to notice em correctly and trigger attraction.


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

I wasnt implying force her... simply likle the OP who said to lay there and think of England (LOL by the way). Thyroid would not prohibit her from doing that. AND since she got hot after an argument, the take charge attitude in a non-threatening way may work... its actually working for me and my husband (without going into detail)! 

Like loving husband said, arguments do push some women away, but not all. 

I wouldnt go so far as to start arguments to get sex, but it might be the attention (like Alexandra said) that she feels she got that particular night in the argument. 

Mike1, has lowered his expectations and started working on himself outside the marriage/bedroom. That is another way to handle it, but for some couples that will breed further distance.

Really examine the routine of your evening and see if there is anything you could tweak... What you have been doing to "help out" obviously isnt working for your needs or hers... so do something else. If the goal for her is more rest, then change the routine to get her to bed earlier (the exhaustion you talk about, is her primary need, not help with chores per se). Her thyroid may have become an issue from adrenal overload from stress that she perceives is happening to her. Stress can come from actual or perceived sources...

I think I go back to my original idea as well... she is not going to see in you what she doesnt want or allow herself to see. If she has a deep rooted resentment that she hasnt told you about... that could be causing her immense stress, overloading her adrenals and affecting her thyroid. There are always 2 perceptions in a marriage, because there are 2 people... I just hope for her sake she is not hiding/masking/deceiving something (to you or herself) she feels is too terrible to share. Sharing it with you, might make her feel better and you angry for a bit, and then you can move forward.

Have you asked her if there is something that she is too scared to talk about? Tell her she can share anything with you, but you need to be ready for whatever she throws at you. Dont punish her back if you dont like it... simply hug her and say Im glad you finally told me and deal with any negative reactions on your own.

I was so hurt when I found out that myhusband was punishing me, and had basically stopped liking me as a person last April. Then, it turned to anger yesterday and last night acceptance, and this morning, I feel so much better. The hardest part is to accept their reality even when it is so different from our own reality of the marriage. My husband says that the fact that he is still here, should tell me that he wants us to work, and I finally think I believe him. I bet it felt good for him to get off his chest what was hiding in there.

Too many times our body reacts with illness when too much is going on in mental stress area. You just need to find out what is causing her such distress that her body is shouting for help! My ex husband had no ieda that his personality was so abrasive that it caused me mental distress to the point I was sick with gall bladder stones, IBS, beginning osteoporosis, asthma, and finally panceratic failure signs. The stress from just how he was to me and to others my mind couldnt tolerate and it was overloaded to the point of illness... all of which cleared within a few months of leaving him. I didnt want to die which is where I was heading. Just being around him and his personality... even though he didnt think he did anything wrong and thought he was wonderful. 

I guess what Im trying to say is, even though you may feel you are trying and doing all these things, she may be perceiving it so much differently. Or she may be hanging on to one little incident in the past that she cant let go of. AN article I read yesterday about marriage advice from stars with successful marriages... check in and ask "are you still happy with me?" Is there anything I need to know?" 

I thought that was awesome...


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

The difficulty on this board is that we dont know what is going on in the spouse. Yes, one person can change the marriage, but it takes 2 to make it! 

I perceive your wife as being standoffish because of something negative she perceives about you, or because she is hiding something... especially now that I know about her thyroid condition.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Nekko said it exactly, it is not merely the arguing, but how a man will stand for himself in the confrontation, that is the potential to ignite sexual attraction or not.

If the man is able to remain in control of his emotion, his temper, and even be the little bit humorous in such conflicts while demonstrating respect for his woman, he is exactly where he wants to be to win the respect and attraction of his woman.

In contrast, if the man is losing his temper, throwing a tantrum, yelling or screaming, or other such things demonstrating that he is either weak, confused, or in any other way "not in control", his woman will be repulsed by this. To do these things and addition to doing any thing to make his woman feel disrespected or insulted, to her he will be double repulsed.

The arguments, or confrontations, are the OPPORTUNITIES for the good man to demonstrate quite clearly to his woman the mettle he is made of. Do not miss this point. 




Star said:


> What are you talking about? I think you have missed the point of the question in this thread.


That post you are speaking of is spam.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

the sex after argument does not always happen. sometimes it has the opposite affect for weeks. however, i did mention during this argument that i have begun to think about "options" if things dont get better, well, maybe that triggered the hot sex but i dont think i should have to threaten her with leaving just to get good sex.

and incidentally to those on the domination theory. i need you to understand that i am most certainly the dominant one in the partnership, and always have been, no question. that WASNT working or became less effective later in our marriage so i tried the softer approach here in the past few months and that isnt really working. we have sex but its still once a week MAX, more like every 10-12 days (not counting the monthly "visitor" aunt flow)

in addition to the minimal improvement in the sex dept., my insistence that she begin to get rid of her immense messes in the house has been met with zero change, and i still harbour resentment for that (its bad people, real bad)

still considering options, okey


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

> in addition to the minimal improvement in the sex dept., my insistence that she begin to get rid of her immense messes in the house has been met with zero change, and i still harbour resentment for that (its bad people, real bad)
> 
> still considering options


, okey[/QUOTE]

Okey, I usually have your back as I am in a similar boat to your situation. However, the mess thing is something YOU need to not put on her. Its a need you have, obviously not one that she has or they (the messes) wouldnt be there. I had a messy roommate years ago who would leave cheese water (from mac and cheese) in the sink for days or longer. I got all torn up inside when nice reminders etc wouldnt get her to clean it. My therapist said... its your issue, and she's not doing it... clean it yourself if it bothers you that much. My roommate wouldnt even thank me... bc she didnt see the mess to begin with, and didnt know I had cleaned it. She wasnt being rude, she really didnt even see the mess to begin with.

The point is, all you are doing is making her feel bad for something that she doesnt even notice, and quite frankly not doable with her level of exhaustion. Making her feel bad about that which she cannot do (or does not notice), makes her feel worse physically and mentally and resentful towards you. That translates into less frequent and HOT sex. 

Let the mess go, or do it yourself, bc its important to you... BUT if you do clean it up, you are not doing it for her, you are doing it for you.
:smthumbup:


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Here is an option for you... hire a maid service to come in and do what needs to be done. That will be a gift to you, and a relief for her since you wont be insisting anymore. Change is great!


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

my wife is a hoarder, her grandmother was and her father is. it is not as simple as you make it to be. but that is really off base from the problem as i can get past that if all else would be normal. i guess the point is i am thinking no matter what i do, sex frequency will not improve. i guess i am confessing to all on here that i have strongly attempted both sides of the basic advice given on here for this problem....be strong and dominate (which is truly me) and soften it up a bit and listen, communicate and be more attentive. neither has really improved things, and i think at some point what will be will be


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Okey, I am so sorry. I dont remember you mentioning hoarding. That IS very different from messy. This is well beyond anything you can do. Hoarding is serious and she and your household needs intervention from psychologists, professional organizers who can clean out and clean up and possibly meds for your wife, and financial help if the hoarding has incurred debt.

Please disregard my posts as they do not apply to this condition.

As for the sex, are you really attracted to her, if this is what is going on in your home? Do not enable her hoarding... she should not do any shopping for the home, for herself or others until/unless her hoarding gets under some control, and even then it may need to be monitored.

I know its not diagnosable in the DSM Manual, but the previous owner of the second home I bought was a hoarder. I was friends with the kids and helped them clean out the upstairs (which revealled decades of clothes, memorabilia, news papers and magazines... she never got rid of anything). Perhaps this is why I never saw her upstairs... only her disorganized downstairs.


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

"as i can get past that if all else would be normal."

its not possible unless she gets help for anything to be normal. The last thing you should try, if you really love her and have it in you, is to get her professional help. Any less of an attempt will yield 0 results. If you do this, at least she will be better able to handle life, then you can decie whether you can stay or not. If treatment doesnt work, you also need to decide what you can do... separate indefinately and that way you can support her and have your own life? Divorce? I hope you dont get to that point.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

the "Leader/Follower" or "Dominant Behavior" piece doesn't work if the person who is supposed to follow doesn't feel safe, and/or respected.

It also doesn't work if they have self-esteem issues or poor self-image.

My wife did the same when I insisted that we go back to therapy, to determine if I wanted to stay married.

Framing it in that context knocked her for a loop. We had sex 2 or more times a week for the next 3 weeks - only to later discover that she was doing it for England. Physically she enjoyed it, but she wasn't doing it because she wanted to, she was doing it because she was afraid.

I left.


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## cliff (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm in the same boat as you okiedokey, even down to my wife's thyroid issue as well as probably some hormonal issues as well. 

I had made a post that didn't get a lot of response, but the question I asked in this situation was regardless of the lack of desire from my wife, there are ways for her to stay involved with me sexually to kind of bridge the gap: I had proposed oral sex or HJ's in lieu of intercourse. My wife no longer wants to do oral (that's another issue I've had a hard time coming to grips with), and said HJ's hurt her arm (!!!). 

But as I provide a roof over my family's head and put food on the table, is it really out of line asking for her involvement to tend to my needs? I offered alternatives I thought were really quite simple.

How about you okiedokey, would your wife provide other non-intercourse kinds of things, or is it something you've talked about? Or would those kinds of things even help the two of you stay connected?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

cliff said:


> How about you okiedokey, would your wife provide other non-intercourse kinds of things, or is it something you've talked about? Or would those kinds of things even help the two of you stay connected?


oh heck no. no sex means no sex. we hit a spurt last week, twice in one week and it was good. but it has now been 4 days, and it will likely stretch to 8 or more before it happens again. i really dont think my wife even realizes that 8 plus days is a long time between interludes. the resentment will begin to build again and we will be right back where we were before we had the big talk a few weeks back.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

yeah star, two weeks ago we had the most serious discussion of our 22 years together. all the cards are out there, not only sex but everything else. we had "make up" sex which was unreal. we have had sex twice since, but she is currently back to her unapproachable self, deep in thought, brooding and seemingly disturbed about something. i have continued to take the high road and have continued to be attentive and loving, communicating. maybe she is imbalanced, well i am sure she is actually, but why cant she recognize it and help herself and help me?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Star said:


> Do you think that maybe she has just fallen out of the routine of having sex? other things in life ahve to take over and sex is one of the things that goes on the back burner? or does she not want sex?


possibly, or it is likely more related to hormonal fluctuations and or thyroid problems. BUT, she knows it aint happening, yet i am kinda stuck with her schedule

i am very understanding of what she is going through, but she isnt incapacitated by any means. one of my biggest issues is she doesnt like to talk about her and her medical issues. the migraines, sinus infections, thyroid and pre menapause are just not thing she will discuss. she gets defensive even though my approach is not one of blame, i just want her to get all the help she can and she is very slow to help herself. and when those things arent happening and she feels good, we should at least make the most of that time and hump like rabbitts


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> the sex after argument does not always happen. sometimes it has the opposite affect for weeks. however, i did mention during this argument that i have begun to think about "options" if things dont get better, well, maybe that triggered the hot sex but i dont think i should have to threaten her with leaving just to get good sex.


The reason she is not more passionate about you is that she takes you for granted. By indicating you might leave, you automatically make yourself more valuable in her eyes becuase she is forced to contemplate what she might be losing.

If you actually leave, (or look like you're on you're way) she will probably be begging you for a second chance. It's a pain playing these games. If you really have nothing to lose... you might just win.

The very fact that you might leave automatically sends the message that you feel you value yourself more highly than she does. It's a good place to be in. I salute you.

If you do break free and she does not succeed in winning you back, your next relationship will be with someone who understands what your minimum requirements are. After 20+ years of marriage, we know a bit more about ourselves.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> The reason she is not more passionate about you is that she takes you for granted. By indicating you might leave, you automatically make yourself more valuable in her eyes becuase she is forced to contemplate what she might be losing.
> 
> If you actually leave, (or look like you're on you're way) she will probably be begging you for a second chance. It's a pain playing these games. If you really have nothing to lose... you might just win.
> 
> ...


yes mark, taken for granted, for sure.

but as a breathing, thinking intelligent human being, why is this so hard for her? where is her conscience? where is her sense of partnership? you would have to know her to fully understand it i guess. WHY DO I HAVE TO BROW BEAT HER TO GET A RESPONSE?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> WHY DO I HAVE TO BROW BEAT HER TO GET A RESPONSE?


You don't. But that's the game you have elected to play. If you give her one last chance to stop you walking off -and then you actually walk- you will not be playing it any more.

But it may well be that in order to get the kind of sexual response you want from the person you are currently married to, a lot of games will have to be played indefinitely. If you are tired of the games, you can either accept the level of intimacy the way it is, or leave.

By staying all these years, you have trained her to know that she can get away with it. So the whole "problem" lies with you - ultimately.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> By staying all these years, you have trained her to know that she can get away with it. So the whole "problem" lies with you - ultimately.





yeah, she would probably blame it on me too


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> yeah, she would probably blame it on me too


Why the long face? It was supposed to be a message of hope. When you are dealing with a tough situation, and you finally track down the man responsible, and that man turns out to be YOU, then you have a chance of making changes. All the time you were blaming her, you were gunning for the wrong guy.

I'm not saying she has been an angel, I'm just saying that you are the one who is writing threads claiming to be unhappy, so the problem must be yours. She has simply been an unflinching unwavering mirror to you. When you grow peaceful enough on the inside to see what she is actually reflecting to you... BINGO you can move to the next level.

It's all about letting the confusion settle until you can see and feel what is really going on within you.

This is what I am doing. I was in the shower two days ago, and I said to myself "I want to become totally empty". I want to become so empty that I can sense what is going on in the world around me free form judgement and reaction. Some of the signals that people give out are so subtle, that they can only be picked up if we have immense stillness within. To reach this we must first give up the chaos within that we have so willingly clinged to. 

It's like going out to a lake in the wilderness. When the last breeze dies down, the lake becomes as smooth as glass until it is possible to see everything reflected on it's surface - the sky and the clouds at first, but then as it gets more still, every last twig on every last tree becomes visible in the reflection.

As you reach this state of quietness inside yourself, every last motive in your own heart will be laid bare, and you will know what's what. You will also become aware how others tick as well - the knowledge comes as a package. For me, it's a work in progress


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

it takes two to tango damnit


and by the way, you rock


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> it takes two to tango damnit
> 
> 
> and by the way, you rock


It takes two to tango, but it takes one to lead the tango . 
Good advice from Mark. I'll just go ahead and add...try different things. Study which works best. Keep to that approach that works. (aka. if you change your behaviour for a day, and it gets better...don't just drop it and think things are ok.)


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> yeah star, two weeks ago we had the most serious discussion of our 22 years together. all the cards are out there, not only sex but everything else. we had "make up" sex which was unreal. we have had sex twice since, but she is currently back to her unapproachable self, deep in thought, brooding and seemingly disturbed about something. i have continued to take the high road and have continued to be attentive and loving, communicating. maybe she is imbalanced, well i am sure she is actually, but why cant she recognize it and help herself and help me?


If you are loving her and affectionate toward her when she is "brooding and seemingly disturbed about something" arent you reinforcing that behavior with a positive response... thereby getting the message across its ok for her to behave like that. And the cycle will continue. Maybe practice reflection with her down mood... if she is acting that way, avoid her. Even though it goes against your personality... I get it bc Im the same. I dote and caress my husband even when he is obviously brooding about me, or something he perceives about me... I unwittingly communicate that Im ok with him doing that, darnit. I just like to show love, its who I am, but its gotten me into a mess as well.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

i don't reinforce her behavior in any way. i do avoid her, and i don't cajole, but thats not especially productive in resolving the issue either. it just perpetuates longer loveless periods and stirs more resentment. I am beginning to see that this is who she is, how its gonna be.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Choose2love said:


> If you are loving her and affectionate toward her when she is "brooding and seemingly disturbed about something" arent you reinforcing that behavior with a positive response... thereby getting the message across its ok for her to behave like that. And the cycle will continue. Maybe practice reflection with her down mood... if she is acting that way, avoid her. Even though it goes against your personality... I get it bc Im the same. I dote and caress my husband even when he is obviously brooding about me, or something he perceives about me... I unwittingly communicate that Im ok with him doing that, darnit. I just like to show love, its who I am, but its gotten me into a mess as well.


You make a very delicate point. I think there is a way of not condoning someone's behaviour while still being loving. With women, it is sometimes possible for the man to "bounce" them out of their bad mood just by being cheeky, chatty, and flirty.

I think that is what okeydokie has been trying to practise. However, it can only go so far.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> You make a very delicate point. I think there is a way of not condoning someone's behaviour while still being loving. With women, it is sometimes possible for the man to "bounce" them out of their bad mood just by being cheeky, chatty, and flirty.
> 
> I think that is what okeydokie has been trying to practise. However, it can only go so far.



yes mark, hence the thread title. i guess it boils down to the fact that i have reached the point that i can no longer help the situation through MY actions without some reciprocation from the other party. and this aint rocket science when all is said and done. i dont tend to complicate things. sum ting wong, and i think i know where that responsibility lies.


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Not being able to go for long periods without sex and intimacy is hard for us higher drive spouses... so we are the ones who end up giving in to get the other person to "put out". I know this is blunt, but its true. The lower drive spouse doesnt care whether they have sex, and by the time enough time goes by that they do... you get a hot session because we are always ready (a bit irritated, but ready).

So our attempts can only go so far... they arent magically going to change the other person's desire. I feel, as you do, that this is how it is. Your spouses mind is made up.

Let me share what I did a few months back. I gave up initiating, asking for, dressing seductively etc as I handed over my sex drive to God for a time period. It made it easier for me to get through 5 of the 6 weeks when the frequency was no different then any other time. I wanted to see if my husband was right... if I stop contacting, talking about the relationship asking for sex etc if the sex frequency would increase. It did not, just as I thouhgt. SO I now know that the only way to get more sex is to go down on him when I want sex... THE ONLY WAY. He is not going to initiate any more or less whatever I do or dont do, only I can change the frequency by acting.

Since you realize you cant change her low desire, have you asked your wife if there is something specific you could do to/for her so that she would have sex? Be that direct when you ask. Nap for 10 minutes, bath, back rub, toy, foot rub, glass of wine... anything?


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