# Boundaries



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Often I post about how folks should enforce "their" boundaries. This is that theme in reverse. How well do you respect your partners boundaries? This is my summary - as always I am curious as to how other folks see it. 

Before talking about the "here and now" which at 48 is much improved I freely acknowledge that back in the beginning, in 1990 I really sucked at this. 

These are the boundaries I try to respect:
1. physical 
2. emotional 
3. spiritual 
4. idealogical 
5. temporal

And this is "how" I try to do so:
In general the main way I try to respect her boundaries is by accepting them as core to who she is. She doesn't have to feel tense or anxious about how "I" am going to act when she needs some space because she knows that when she gets past that I will be happy to hug her and tell her I love her when she gets through her temporary need for solitude. 

Physical
She has the right not to be crowded. She has the right not to be touched in a way that she doesn't like - she loves hugs, massages, back scratches. She HATES being groped. It has been 20 years since she told me that and it hasn't happened since. She has the right to not be in the mood and when she clearly isn't, the right to not be subjected to a relentlessly sexual vibe or persistent physical overtures when it is obvious they are unwanted. 

Emotional - I am still working on this one
The good part:
She has the right to vent without being corrected, fixed or helped "in the moment". I have gradually gotten good at this. 

Where I still suck:
I tend to interrupt her when she is being critical of me, to explain why what I did was right/logical/sane. This is understandably very frustrating to her. 

Spiritual
She is catholic I am not. I go to church with her as her partner. Before we married I told her the only area where we needed to meet in the middle was birth control. Both for us and for the kids when they got to the age where we teach them about sex. She accepted that. 

Idealogical
She is more conservative than I am. I don't try to "convert" her though I will at times ask her questions that hopefully help her see the part of the picture that Fox news doesn't always address. Even when I strongly disagree I don't mock her ridicule her opinions. When we have a factual dispute we go online to a reputable source.

Temporal:
When she wants to have a girls night, a long weekend visit to her sister, when she needs to work late, I support that. All of it.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Often I post about how folks should enforce "their" boundaries. This is that theme in reverse. How well do you respect your partners boundaries? This is my summary - as always I am curious as to how other folks see it.


All I can say, you're an amazing guy. I, being almost 25, am trying to be what you are now. Some might come easier to me, others are more difficult.

Physical, basically same as yours. Try to respect, not give off vibes etc. The last part is still hard. Need to control my urges sometimes and man, it sucks. Thank god our drive match for about 90%

Emotional is somewhat easy for me. Like I said before in a few other threads, I grew up with 4 women. I'd like to think I know how to act to a woman. I do sometimes get angry when she criticizes me for something I don't think I'm wrong on. However, if I'm wrong, I will apologize.

Spiritually, we're on the same page, no problems there.

Ideology. I tend to want to debate stuff more than her. While our views are the same, I sometimes play devil's advocate to get a discussion going. Should stop doing that, as it upsets my girl sometimes.

Temporal. Well, she has always been free to do whatever she wants, when she wants. As I have astma, most of the dance clubs f*** me up with all the smoke, so I can't visit them. So the next best thing is having fun with her friends 

Sexually I try to only do what she doesn't mind and vice versa. Kept our relationship healthy. I do remember one thing at the start I did that well... Still can't forgive myself for it. Made me a better man though, taking her needs more into account.

P.S. Great idea, really made me reflect on myself. Should ask her tomorrow if she feels what I wrote here is correct.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Often I post about how folks should enforce "their" boundaries. This is that theme in reverse. How well do you respect your partners boundaries? This is my summary - as always I am curious as to how other folks see it.
> 
> When we first started dating, there were a lot of issues we had to work on, different personality, different culture background, different family background, different religion, different life experience, we had to search for our comfortable zone.
> 
> ...


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> I don't know if I call these boundaries, I call this understanding of each other and do things to make each other happy!


Well, what you said is kinda true, but his point still stands. He is asking how you respect your SO's boundaries. While she might not have set them in stone, this is how I respect hers. If she tells me she doensn't like something, she has set one which I should keep in mind, and respect.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Draguna said:


> Well, what you said is kinda true, but his point still stands. He is asking how you respect your SO's boundaries. While she might not have set them in stone, this is how I respect hers. If she tells me she doensn't like something, she has set one which I should keep in mind, and respect.


Mutual respect is always important in a relationship! 

My husband always says if I want to him to be in a certain way, I have to be like that too!  

If I want him to apologize, I have to apologize when I am wrong! 

If I want him not to spend too much time on Internet, I shouldn't either! 

If he is nice to my family, I have to be nice to his family too! 

He is very good at convincing me to be nice! 

I agree with him, I have to be fair, right?! I can't expect him to be this way, but I myself can act a different way! When he feels he is being respected and loved, he returns even more!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Just understand this only works because it is mutual. I respect her boundaries and I "enforce" mine when needed. And I am very firm on mine when I need to be. 

As for desire levels - two things need to happen. 
1. You need to learn to read her so you don't initiate when she is clearly not wanting to
2. SHE needs to learn how to teach you to get her in the mood slowly even when she doesn't start out feeling lusty

One reduces the bad feelings that come from rejection by making rejection/or pressure less frequent. 

Two is critical because after kids, other life stuff her drive will very likely drop way faster than yours. If she has a firm belief that when she ins't feeling lust at the start - nothing is going to happen - you are in for a bad time of it. 

That said, if you don't develop the skill to touch her in a way that feels good from the start and slowly warms her up, the sexual part of your relationship is unlikely to stay strong. 

We usually start with a long, slow non-sexual full body massage that slowly gets more sensual until she is wanting me to take it further. 



Draguna said:


> All I can say, you're an amazing guy. I, being almost 25, am trying to be what you are now. Some might come easier to me, others are more difficult.
> 
> Physical, basically same as yours. Try to respect, not give off vibes etc. The last part is still hard. Need to control my urges sometimes and man, it sucks. Thank god our drive match for about 90%
> 
> ...


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Just understand this only works because it is mutual. I respect her boundaries and I "enforce" mine when needed. And I am very firm on mine when I need to be.
> 
> As for desire levels - two things need to happen.
> 1. You need to learn to read her so you don't initiate when she is clearly not wanting to
> ...


Hmmm, thank you for the advice. A step beyond what I've tried so far; giving her attention, saying she looks nice, kisses, you know, those kind of stuff. This forum has some really knowledgeable people. Glad to learn from the "pros"


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

A really high quality full body massage can be an incredible turn on. Really powerful stuff. Two ways to learn what she likes:
1. I touch / you touch or
2. Better one / better two

"I touch/you touch" is she massages you the way she wants you to massage her. And then you switch places and get her to give you a little feedback to refine your technique.

Better one/better two is you do something in terms of a massage stroke and then do a small variation on it. You do the first and ask "better 1"? and then the variant "better 2". This could be harder, softer, faster/slower or a slightly different direction - vertical/horizontal/diagonal? Knuckles vs. finger tips, etc? 

You play these games for a while and you should both become experts in how to give each other an incredible experience. 

Once relaxed an inner thigh and/or butt massage can be a huge turn on. The thing is - that only happens after a lot of non-sensual/vanilla massage touch. 




Draguna said:


> Hmmm, thank you for the advice. A step beyond what I've tried so far; giving her attention, saying she looks nice, kisses, you know, those kind of stuff. This forum has some really knowledgeable people. Glad to learn from the "pros"


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>_Emotional - I am still working on this one
The good part:
She has the right to vent without being corrected, fixed or helped "in the moment". I have gradually gotten good at this._<<

We've had a huge revelation over this one relatively recently.

Like many here, when we hook up in a disagreement, we're both strong-willed.

My personal flaw has been to show my own whiny-assed baby at those moments and I summon everything to "fix in the moment".

"Fixing in the moment" coupled with "whiny assed baby" is a really toxic formula.

At the marriage builders forum, Willard Harley points out that if you don't leave room for the other persons point-of-view in a disagreement, it's a 'de facto' disrespectful judgement.

Suffice it to say, when I really internalized this, I was devastated. I can look back over a lifetime of relationships and see this very dynamic where I push others away for no reason other than wanting to prove myself right.

The solution isn't to be a doormat and let everyone else have their way. But, there's no reason to fight to the death with hurtful commentary and anger.

This is one reason why I've been quiet lately. This one hit like a ton of bricks.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Conrad,
She and I have both gotten better at this. When she is upset/tense about someone/something "else" - I am calm supportive, listen and don't try to fix "it or her". She can say/do anything as long as she isn't taking out her frustrations on me. If that starts to happen I just give her a look of surprise and then quietly wait a long moment. At that point she can retract - or she gets the "sounds like you have this under control" followed by the receding sound of my footsteps. That is my version of "I am here to help you with this situation - take it out on me and I disappear". To her credit, she rarely does that anymore. 

It took me a long time to build the anxiety "disconnect" switch. Used to be when she felt anxious - I felt anxious. Not good. Now when she gets like that I flip that switch, and can be relaxed and helpful and just as important patient. 

A time machine, a time machine, my kingdom for a time machine.....



Conrad said:


> >>_Emotional - I am still working on this one
> The good part:
> She has the right to vent without being corrected, fixed or helped "in the moment". I have gradually gotten good at this._<<
> 
> ...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> >>_Emotional - I am still working on this one
> The good part:
> She has the right to vent without being corrected, fixed or helped "in the moment". I have gradually gotten good at this._<<
> 
> ...


It's well recognised and even has a name: Stonewalling. It's an ego thing.

??? "One of the four things that can kill a marriage is stonewalling".


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bob,

Ask Trenton if she thinks I've stonewalled in the past


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>She can say/do anything as long as she isn't taking out her frustrations on me<<

I call this particular phenomenon "the escalator".

The revelation I've mentioned is MY ROLE in this. Let me put it this way...

"Fixing in the moment plus whiney-assed baby" is an ENGRAVED INVITATION for someone to take out their frustrations on you.

Following them around.... pleading your case.... trying to be 'oh so reasonable'....

Sound familiar anyone?


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## jonny (Jan 8, 2011)

Conrad said:


> >>She can say/do anything as long as she isn't taking out her frustrations on me<<
> 
> I call this particular phenomenon "the escalator".
> 
> ...


I'm a Stonewaller, Well - not anymore - But in discussions / arguments with my wife - I would do anything humanly possible to end the conflict - Say what she wants to hear - that sort of thing.

OR - I would just resport to a blind agreeance. yup. You're right. Ok. Etc.

Giving her no real responses, and getting nothing accomplished. 


QUESTION :

Boundaries. I'm new to this - Trying to figure out my boundaries for a relationship in general, me in general, certain situations in general. Also working on doing more for me. So that's causing me problems with this post and working on her / respecting her boundaries.

I see it as important - I mean if I expect her to follow mine - I should follow hers of course.

The physical one I'm having a hard time with - she doesn't want me to Touch her. Grab her ass etc. Saying that - I could see it being easy if I got payoff for it. Right now it's my only 'sexual' release with her it seems. haha. 

But yes - I see all this as something that's going on in a healthy relationship Right now my relationship isn't healthy - and Right now I'm focusing on me / personal development.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I would be the first to admit that I really have no set in stone boundaries and suck at respecting others'.

Always have, didn't realize it until I got older, now, at my age, extremely hard to change.

While I have what I believe meets the definition of boundaries, I am not above adjusting them based on the situation, which I guess, in definition doesn't make them boundaries but adjustible lines...

If I was to name what I thought were my boundaries, they would be:

- Physical - no physical abuse of any kind. I am a touchy-feely person so my personal space is limited at best and I am quite comfortable with anyone, including strangers to get physically close to me.
- Emotional - no verbal abuse. Don't call me names, don't deliberately make me feel stupid and worthless.
- Spiritual - neither one of us are very religious and our faith is based on different religions so we agreed early on to keep this out of discussion and it's never been an issue.
- Ideology - he's a conservative, I'm a liberal. I only debate issues that I feel strongly about, if I have a stance, but am not strong in that conviction, then I'm open to debate and looking at another's point of view. But, if I entrenched in that view, no one can change my mind, I can be stubborn in this respect. My husband is actually the same in this regard with feet in cement if he feels strongly about the issue at hand.
- Temporal - my husband and I are both college educated and retired military members - so as far as intelligence and life experience, it's pretty equal. He doesn't have to ask for permission to do anything and neither do I. We are married, he is not my dad and I am not his mom, I do try to respect his space and need to do things on his own, but this area is difficult for me and I tend to cross that boundary on a regular basis as I get lonely easily, but I'm working on it. But I do keep him on his toes in debate when needed, which he appreciates as he doesn't always want a "yes" wife.

And yes I know that boundaries and respect for them makes a healthy relationship, but if we all did things right each and every time, then we wouldn't be here at TAM. We're human and failure is part of the species.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jonny said:


> I'm a Stonewaller, Well - not anymore - But in discussions / arguments with my wife - I would do anything humanly possible to end the conflict - Say what she wants to hear - that sort of thing.
> 
> OR - I would just resport to a blind agreeance. yup. You're right. Ok. Etc.
> 
> ...


jonny,

Peace at any price?

Do we really want "peace" in our lives? Or do we merely want to be "left in peace"?

Too many of us choose option #2 - which also goes by the name "surrender".


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