# Wife not Attracted! Separating! Possibly Divorce!



## DevilsHood35 (Jul 8, 2016)

Hi All,

I am new here, but looking for some way to deal with what I am going through. I will try my best to keep this short and concise. My main goal is to find suggestions/recommendations on what to do, how to deal with things.

My wife and I have been together for 13.5 years, married for 9, and we have two beautiful boys (4 & 6). I was her first lover, and her first real relationship. Throughout the years, we have struggled with typical relationship issues, ranging from budget, family, friends, intimacy, etc. Nothing out of the ordinary, and we have had a happy life together.

About 5.5 years ago, I quit my job in IT and we moved out of the area, away from good friends and family to advance her career. I struggled to plant my feet again, but managed to get in to Software Testing. My wife got pregnant with our second son and was a director of financial aid. Right around this time, our finances began to get very tight, and the care/affection/intimacy began to stop being displayed by her.

I was struggling emotionally, and made two mistakes at my job. I smoked something I shouldn't have inside the break room a few times with some co-workers, and I verbally flirted with a co-worker. After a few months, I was promoted to a manger, and I ceased both of those activities. Other than the verbal flirting, I have been 100% faithful to my wife for our entire relationship. I was later terminated due to the smoking, but then re-hired with the same company 8 months later.

We then relocated again to advance her career. We continued to struggle with the care/affection/intimacy, but I didn't think it was anything that we couldn't work through. I asked her to go to counseling repeatedly, but she refused. I thought long and hard, and determined that I needed to up-my-game as a husband and father. I stepped up and helped to alleviate stresses around the house by helping out with chores more and giving her breaks from responsibility.

On June 1st, 12 days after our 9 year anniversary, she told me that she was no longer interested in intimacy with me, and hasn't been for a long time. She told me that she has not been attracted to me for a long time. She told me that she hasn't felt care for me for years, and an example of that is that whenever I was sick, she couldn't have cared less. She said that if I would have had an affair, it wouldn't have mattered to her. She states that she feels like she has never really been able to find out who she is, and she feels like she needs to be free to find herself. I have asked her if she is interested in someone else multiple times, and she states that relationships are the last thing that she wants right now. All she wants is time and space to figure out who she is and what she wants out of life. Once she figures that out, then she says she will be open to relationships.

When I have asked her how long she has lacked attraction to me, she looks back at before we were ever even married and sees examples of it. She recalls conversations with friends about the lack of attraction. She considers me to be her best friend, and she states that she thought she could make it work because she felt that I was the entire package, just without the attraction. She wants the separation/divorce to be amicable, and wants me to continue to be in her life forever. I have asked her to go to counseling, but she doesn't feel that it will make a difference and so refuses.

I love her deeply, and I see her struggling. I feel her pain, and feel sad/sorry for her. I want to be mad at her and hate her for what she is doing, but all I feel is love and support for her. I'm trying hard not to hold on to the hope that we will get back to being a married couple some day, but I struggle with that daily. I am working on finding a place of my own and separating out all of the finances and belongings. She has already put down a deposit on an apartment and will be moving out soon.

My biggest struggle is trying to figure out if this whole thing is true, or if she has just cracked from the stress of this stage in our lives. In a lot of ways, I feel like it's just stress has gotten to her, and this is how she has 'popped'. All I can think to do, is to move on with my life and provide for our kids. This will give her the time and space that she needs to figure things out. If she decides to file for divorce, then I will go along with it (grudgingly). If, however, she changes her mind prior to filing paperwork, then I figure we can re-evaluate it at that time.

Any suggestions? Any advice? Am I being too nice? I feel like our culture nowadays has become far too self-centered, and there is a lack of true love/caring to work through the hard times. That's why I'm not wanting to just get pissed off at her. My primary focus is on our boys and providing a good life for them, but my heart breaks at what she is doing and how this is going to effect the boys.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

1. You're an idiot for doing those things in the past but you're human. Humans sin. Own your side of the street.

2. She is cheating on you. Those things she said are directly from the cheaters playbook. Cheaters are too stupid to realize they all say the same crap. My ex said the same to me - never attracted, only married you because you were a good friend, etc...

So you have a choice. 180 hard, NMMNG, etc... get a VAR in her car and around the house when you aren't home.

Or you can try to "nice" her out of it. And fail miserably. You can't make someone love you. They do or they dont. She is telling you she doesnt. I suggest you believe her. But don't believe anything else she says. I mean nothing.

Good luck. The pros here will help you. Stick around.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

Unfortunately she is either cheating, OR there is more to your story and she has lost respect for you. It sounds like she has a lot on her mind and NEEDS a separation from you. You can try that and if she's happier and decides to divorce...that's her choice. You cannot force someone to love you. And you can't change. All you can do now is find a hobby, exercise, buy her flowers and say that you appreciate the things that she has done for you...no strings attached. And let her go. Maybe she will turn around and maybe not.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

I will add to my previous post...

Right now you are giving her all the power and control over your marriage. Don't do that. 

Even if she changes her mind, why would you want to be married to someone who isn't attracted to you and has lied to you these many years? She just told you she doesnt care about you at all.

You need to start thinking the way she does about your marriage - who gives a crap? When it comes to her - who gives a crap? That is what she flat out told you so get on board. My advice is to let her go and find someone better. The kids will survive. Happy wife happy life is the most narcissist thinking ever.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Check your phone bill.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I also suspect cheating. However, you can find out for sure. Read this and do what it says: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

DevilsHood35 said:


> My wife and I have been together for 13.5 years, married for 9, and we have two beautiful boys (4 & 6). I was her first lover, and her first real relationship. Throughout the years, we have struggled with typical relationship issues, ranging from budget, family, friends, intimacy, etc. Nothing out of the ordinary, and we have had a happy life together.
> 
> On June 1st, 12 days after our 9 year anniversary, she told me that she was no longer interested in intimacy with me, and hasn't been for a long time. She told me that she has not been attracted to me for a long time. *She told me that she hasn't felt care for me for years, and an example of that is that whenever I was sick, she couldn't have cared less. She said that if I would have had an affair, it wouldn't have mattered to her. She states that she feels like she has never really been able to find out who she is, and she feels like she needs to be free to find herself. I have asked her if she is interested in someone else multiple times, and she states that relationships are the last thing that she wants right now. All she wants is time and space to figure out who she is and what she wants out of life. Once she figures that out, then she says she will be open to relationships.*
> 
> ...


Cheaters lie, hide and deny. You need to wake up!!!

Read up and find out what you're dealing with.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ce-post.html?highlight=standard+evidence+post

You probably should read this too.
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=zSsbkEsw2D4i7fslGtj.z5AvrFs-


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
There is scant little factual information to form a conclusive opinion however, as a general rule people ofttimes lose interest in things that are too easily attainable or maintainable, particularly people who are immature. She has stated that she needs to determine who she is and what she wants but I posit that information is already known, she is a wife and mother, albeit not a very good one in either case.

Mature people understand and accept this BEFORE taking vows and having children but people of lesser developed cognitive ability are not capable of that much forethought. So, assuming there are not undisclosed circumstances, your only course of action is to treat her as the child she is.

How does one make a child want something? Tell them they cannot have it. You must make yourself less available and less interested. The 180 plan is the most recommended course but whatever path you choose you must make yourself much less accommodating. Another way to make a child want something is to give it to another child. If she believes that other "children" are interested in her toy, the toy may take on more value in her eyes.

Do not misunderstand I am not suggesting that you have an A but rather make yourself more attractive to the opposite sex and let her see it. Also, when she talks about moving on tell her you are ready and that although you would prefer to keep your family in tact, you are certainly open to the idea of finding a woman who cherishes you as much as you would her. In other words let her see that you are fine with finding a mature woman to be in a relationship with.

This may increase your value as a H but it also may not, especially if there is already another man you are not aware of that she is enamored with. However, as you detach from her you may yourself begin to see that she never was the princess on the pedestal you once thought her to be. This will make moving on easier if that is the way it must be.

Again this is very generic advice based on the limited information you have provided.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Yes, pretty typical cheaterspeak.
They all say they never loved you, they all say they're not attracted to you, and that they need to "find themselves".
Yeah, I could be wrong. 

Either way, steel yourself to your wife, understand that it happens all the time, and I hope you reach acceptance soon and start healing. I assure you that she's not the only woman in the world for you, and when you meet someone that returns your love, you'll be happier than ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## flyhigher (Jun 23, 2016)

Wow.. I'm surprised that everyone is going straight to CHEATING. I wouldn't have gone there... but I guess it's possible. To me, when I hear "find myself" it means, "freedom to sleep around and party whenever I want" .. I don't think she's cheating, but I think she wants to be with other people, for sure.

I would say that you need to try to move on. I agree that you should find some confidence and start making your own plans. Be there for your children, but not for her. She wants a separation, than give it to her, don't continue to give her love and support; cut the chord.. let her know what being alone really feels like. After all, she said she doesn't care for you; that's harsh. She can't have your around as her "best friend" and go out partying and sleeping around; that's unfair to you. She wants you in her life forever? She wants to use you for support and reassurance when she needs it, but she doesn't want to have to give that affection back; IMO anyway.

She's probably fanaticising the "single life" and doesn't realize how difficult it will actually BE.. especially when children are involved.

I'm curious, too, as to whether or not there's more to the story. 
Good luck.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

DevilsHood35 said:


> All she wants is time and space to figure out who she is and what she wants out of life. Once she figures that out, then she says she will be open to relationships.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Not necessarily cheating yet, but thinking about someone, or the possibility of someone(s).

She has spouted every cliche there is from someone who is leaving for someone else.


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## Married27years (Jun 16, 2016)

My guess is she is cheating or has someone in mind. She isn't going to tell you if she is cheating. I would do some investigating. She is trying to rewrite what is wrong in your marriage by saying she was never attracted to you. How nice of her to want you in her life forever, whether she wants you to or not you will be in her life because you two have children together. I would ask her why can't she still be married and still "find herself" whatever that means? She is being selfish by only thinking of herself not of your children who are going to be visiting you on the weekends. Sorry you are going through this.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Hmmmm. I once was the girl that married as a virgin. As many years go by, you can't help but wonder what you might have missed, but having never experienced anything else, there was a HUGE apprehension to do so. Perhaps curiousity has gotten the best of her.

A few years ago I was the wife that said a lot of what she is saying. I wasn't having an affair. I was simply done. I had been telling him for a decade and a half the couple of adjustments I needed him to make for us to survive as a couple. He was lazy, made half hearted , shortlived efforts and was certain I would never leave. He was wrong.

If there are things she has been begging you to work on in your marriage, now might be the last shot for you guys to do so. It sounds like it is too late though...I think she is already done. Perhaps a little time apart will make her miss you and want to reunite your family. I know my ex still hopes for reconciliation, although I am remarried and very in love. He has yet to move on, and it is painful still to see.

I wish you the best and hope that you can all find peace and happiness in your future.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

DevilsHood35 said:


> When I have asked her how long she has lacked attraction to me, she looks back at before we were ever even married and sees examples of it. She recalls conversations with friends about the lack of attraction. She considers me to be her best friend, and she states that she thought she could make it work because she felt that I was the entire package, just without the attraction. She wants the separation/divorce to be amicable, and wants me to continue to be in her life forever. I have asked her to go to counseling, but she doesn't feel that it will make a difference and so refuses.


If what she says is true, then she is a very cruel woman. I highly doubt she told you this before you were married. "Sure I like you as a friend, but I am not attracted to you, but I will try". I highly doubt that was part of her wedding vows. Like many, this is probably a re-writing of history, based on how she feels now. However, no matter which story you believe, it changes things very little. The fact is she does not want to continue the relationship and you can't change that fact. I believe most relationships can be fixed, if both parties work to fix the problems, but you can't do it alone.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

While cheating is a possibility, it's also possible she has been honest. It's not unheard of for a woman to marry a great guy she isn't physically attracted to because he would make a great husband in every other way. Years go by, she discovers that she actually does need a romantic partner she is attracted to, and ends the marriage to be free to seek a more compatible mate.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Very true. 

I think its difficult for many men to imagine that a woman would marry someone they aren't really attracted to but it unfortunately happens a lot.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Agree with most of the others that this is most likely cheating. Her speech is right out of the cheaters handbook.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Sounds to me like she's cheating but does it really matter?

She's gone, she's probably not coming back and whether or not there's a chance she's coming back or whether or not she's cheating, your strategy remains the same.

Do some investigative work as suggested on this thread and many others, if you find evidence of cheating then you'll have to decide if you want to try to save the marriage by blowing up the affair, or throwing your hands in the air and walking away.

If you find no evidence of cheating, your strategy is to start behaving and preparing for the next phase of your life, which doesn't include her. She just might change her mind when she sees you withdrawing from her and moving on, which for you might be a benefit but that's not why you will be doing it.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

DevilsHood35 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> 
> Right around this time, our finances began to get very tight, and the care/affection/intimacy began to stop being displayed by her.
> ...












Who wants to wager she goes to 'find herself' on the tip of a penis? (EunuchMonk, that's rude!) The fact that she's not willing to work on things does not bode well, OP. Read through the Coping With Infidelity section, you will find that your story is on an infinite loop in this forum. Welcome to the Matrix!


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

EunuchMonk said:


> Who wants to wager she goes to 'find herself' on the tip of a penis? (EunuchMonk, that's rude!) /QUOTE]
> 
> Yes, the polite version is "under the nearest man". >


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

OP, not to make light of your situation, we all know how bad it sucks.

If you want reality, she is probably cheating or about to do so. She has likely been feeling this for quite a while and just now finding the courage to bring it up. She is not likely to be fully honest with you and will drag you along to her benefit until she can pull the plug on her convenience.

That's why it's crucial for you to stop playing the "please pick me" game and 180 and 180 hard. Like immediately.

It's not the end of the world and your life can be happy again, even happier than you have been before as married. You were happy before her? You will be happy after her. With or without another woman in your life.

Trust me when I tell you this world is FILLED with women who went down the same road as your wife is going. Had kids, left their husband, destroyed the family, etc. Wah wah wah I'm not happy and it's all your fault. Zzzzzzzzz....

I meet them all the time and avoid them like the plague. Don't feel bad for her or yourself. Be a man now and take control of your life and let her go be and dumbo and be someone else's problem.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

It could be one of two things

1. She is cheating like everyone said, some of the things she said does raise red flags

or

2. She is a walkaway wife who has had to be the main breadwinner, also take care of household, kids, etc with little support from you. You said you were changing up things to help more, sounds to me like it might be too little too late. Not all women want to leave because they have found another penis (using some people's comments here) but because they have had enough of no physical support or emotional support.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Women marry for a lot of reasons:
-Love/passion/chemistry
-Knowing you have found a good man who would love and care for you
-he would be a great father
-he would be a great provider
-he makes you feel safe and protected
and the list goes on...

I am going with @aine on this one. Seems like your wife did everything for so long, that she can't do it anymore. She's had enough. May be she sees being single as the grass is greener but to her it's worth leaving everything behind. To some people this is the only way to save themselves. She is what they call here on TAM, a Walk Away Wife. 

At this point as the H, there is nothing that you can do to change her mind. Your changes and self realization is a little too late. The only thing you can do is to let her go and try to live your life the best way you can. Learn from your mistakes and try to better yourself. 

Good luck and many blessings.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

cbnero said:


> OP, not to make light of your situation, we all know how bad it sucks.
> 
> If you want reality, she is probably cheating or about to do so. She has likely been feeling this for quite a while and just now finding the courage to bring it up. She is not likely to be fully honest with you and will drag you along to her benefit until she can pull the plug on her convenience.
> 
> ...



Pretty much EXACTLY right. Qft
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

aine said:


> It could be one of two things
> 
> 1. She is cheating like everyone said, some of the things she said does raise red flags
> 
> ...


I agree with this.
However, if the lack of support and emotional support is the problem and not just a search for greener grass, there should be a request for counseling on her part, some major "talks" in a calm manner to let the husband know how serious the problems are. This getting resentful over the years and dropping a bombshell on their husband when there's not a damn thing he can do to fix it because they've emotionally detached for a long time before they give the ILYBINILWY speech-- that's a real rotten thing to do in my opinion. My experience and what I've seen personally is that once they detach and start feeling shame and guilt over what they've done or wanting to do with other men, they weild the power they have over the husband that still loves them to make them miserable. They will denigrate their husband in the worst ways possible. Sexual ability, role of a husband and father, physical appearance, ambition, etc--- these will all be run down. And they will laugh about it and tell their husband how repulsive they are when they grovel, cry, and beg for another chance.
That is what I've seen many times from these WalkawAy wives.
Were their husbands perfect? Heck no. All I ask is that the WAW give their husbands the opportunity to fix it by letting then know how serious the problem is before they lose their love-- and after it's gone, just divorce and don't make their husbands suffer because of their own guilt.
I do feel empathy for those wives who walked away after giving their husbands every chance to change and they refused. That happens, too. My ex tried to let me know with comments from time to time about when she was angry, but never really let me know she was actually hurting. And by her own admission a couple of years after separation, the problems she had with me were "petty things that added up".

OP,
You need to understand that if you grovel, plead, cry, or have a fit of hysterical bonding (look it up), you will repulse your wife and push her right on out of the house. There is nothing you can do once they give you the ILYBINILWY speech, other than give them their freedom and ignore them, show them what kind of man they're losing, and hope they see reality of life without you and want to give things another try. (And this is very unlikely). It's incredibly hard not to do those things I mentioned not to do, but try with all your will. If you do, it will have the opposite effect. 
You should also go see a lawyer TODAY, and get this divorce taken care of while your wife may still have a little guilt about breaking up the family. It's your best chance at a reasonably fair divorce. If you wait, they will get educated by other WAW on how to screw you by taking everything and leaving you with nothing.
That's been my experience. I luckily got a divorce agreement quickly and was able to survive financially. Hopefully you will, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Don't have to even read much more past where she wants space.

The simple fact is that that is probably the most common request that a woman makes when she is either having an affair or wants to have one. And the fact that I think you said you were her first and only lover points more in that direction.

my guess she is one of those women who does not want to cheat on you with you around anymore or if she starts to, and wants you out of the way for a while. Then if things do not work out and the single life is not what she thought it would be, then you are still there.

And of course if she has or is having sex with another man she will tell you that you were separated and she thought the marriage was over.

When she told you she did not care if you had an affair, she basically indirectly told you she would be fine with no separation and an open marriage.

Depending on what you want to do
if you want to know the truth then do the following
(1) put a VAR in her car and you will find out if she is talking to another man in less than a week.or she will be talking to a girlfriend
(2) get your cell phone records if you are on the same plan and look for a lot of texts or calls to same number.
(3) put a GPS device on her car.
if you do these three things you will know if this separation story is the truth or not.
if you want to force the issue immediately, the see an attorney, find out your rights, and file for divorce ( you can stop it any time you want to). That will put her on notice that there is going to be no fence sitting or trying out any other guys while you watch the kids and house.

Stop playing the pick me game and letting her have the narrative and control here. That is the WORST thing you can do.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

DevilsHood35 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> 
> When I have asked her how long she has lacked attraction to me, she looks back at before we were ever even married and sees examples of it. She recalls conversations with friends about the lack of attraction. She considers me to be her best friend, and she states that she thought she could make it work because she felt that I was the entire package, just without the attraction. *She wants the separation/divorce to be amicable, and wants me to continue to be in her life forever.* I have asked her to go to counseling, but she doesn't feel that it will make a difference and so refuses.
> ...


this is another of the cliches people use, that are usually meaningless. it is a way of trying to minimize the consequences of walking away. as the months and years go by, once they get what they want (another man/woman), it's totally forgotten; 'why do you keep bugging me?'

so sad, but true.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I agree with most of the other posters that she is either already cheating or is on the verge of an A with someone she is already talking to.

If you want to find out who she intends to have around your kids (the POSOM) check your phone records.....you will probably see his number very quickly.

Other posters are also right on what you need to do......the 180 (read up on it, there are links to it on this site).....basically, only discuss the kids and the D proceedings......be civil, but emotionally cold.

DO NOT do the futile and stupid 'pick me' dance trying to nice her back into the M.....it does not work.

And tell her to take that 'friends' sh*t and being 'in her life forever' and stick it where the sun don't shine.....it is nothing but an attempt on her part to keep the parts of you she wants and likes, while going off to 'find herself' with POSOM.

Screw that noise.....tell her you have zero interest in being her friend after being her H.

Make it clear, in no uncertain terms, that if she goes through with this the cost will be NEVER having you in her life again as anything but a business-like co-parent for your kids.

Take control of YOUR future back......life is too short to spend chasing after a wayward spouse living in 'affair' Fantasyland.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Sounds to me like she already made the decision it's over. My initial reaction in my case was to start separating finances, phone, etc... and I went to see an attorney to get the paperwork going. Then my ex had and Oh Sh!t moment and she conned me into "making it work." Which by that she meant she would lie even more and lead me on until she had her stuff in order to her liking and I was caught off guard and went through a year of hell with gaslighting, blame shifting, etc.... I wish I had trusted my gut instinct. 

Don't let that happen to you. 

If it were me, I'd get the attorney going and start pulling away. If she protests then you really need to be firm. She just got done telling you she wants out, so you can't trust anything she says. She made her choice and was cruel. Let her prove by her actions she wants to stay married to you otherwise start your new life minus her and the drama head games.

Nut up!


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> While cheating is a possibility, it's also possible she has been honest. It's not unheard of for a woman to marry a great guy she isn't physically attracted to because he would make a great husband in every other way. Years go by, she discovers that she actually does need a romantic partner she is attracted to, and ends the marriage to be free to seek a more compatible mate.


One of the most F----n selfish things I've read in a long time!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> One of the most F----n selfish things I've read in a long time!


Why do you think that? Should a person settle for a perpetual roommate/good friend situation while longing for a romantic partner? Isn't ending a dead relationship better for both parties?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Why do you think that? Should a person settle for a perpetual roommate/good friend situation while longing for a romantic partner? Isn't ending a dead relationship better for both parties?



It's selfish to marry them in the first place, doesn't the guy deserve someone who is attracted to him?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree with this.
> However, if the lack of support and emotional support is the problem and not just a search for greener grass, there should be a request for counseling on her part, some major "talks" in a calm manner to let the husband know how serious the problems are. This getting resentful over the years and dropping a bombshell on their husband when there's not a damn thing he can do to fix it because they've emotionally detached for a long time before they give the ILYBINILWY speech-- that's a real rotten thing to do in my opinion. My experience and what I've seen personally is that once they detach and start feeling shame and guilt over what they've done or wanting to do with other men, they weild the power they have over the husband that still loves them to make them miserable. They will denigrate their husband in the worst ways possible. Sexual ability, role of a husband and father, physical appearance, ambition, etc--- these will all be run down. And they will laugh about it and tell their husband how repulsive they are when they grovel, cry, and beg for another chance.
> That is what I've seen many times from these WalkawAy wives.
> Were their husbands perfect? Heck no. All I ask is that the WAW give their husbands the opportunity to fix it by letting then know how serious the problem is before they lose their love-- and after it's gone, just divorce and don't make their husbands suffer because of their own guilt.
> ...


ER, I am not saying that if she is a WAW what she is doing is right but sometimes wives tell their H over and over again things are not right. Some men have the emotional maturity of a goat and just don't get anything till it is far too late. The wife suffers, she's done with the heartache, the emotional care taking. He thinks as long as his dinner is ready, she has sex with him, he lies in front of the tv when he wants that all is well with the world. She gives up, withdraws having lost the battle and secretly checks out. It's sad for both but it is what it is. Men should be more tuned in to their wives and many are not, just saying....
And yes, I speak from experience, had all my ducks in a row, got tired of the emotional abuse and being taken for granted, some men need a 2x4 up the head before they'll take action. My H is a prime example, now he is doing the things he should have been doing years ago, (this only happened when I asked him to move out and started talking about divorce lawyers) and the jury is still out on whether we will make it or not.
Many men are lazy when it comes to marriage in my opinion and many women put up with it for too long.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I can't disagree with that, aine. I was probably guilty of a lot of what you say.
It's a shame, but it is what it is. I hope your husband gets the opportunity to rebuild your relationship and you're both happy.
I personally think my ex was just wanting a guy with more money, wanted less responsibility with the kids, and wanted some new sex partners. (That's what she said, anyway). 
And there's a lot of women like my ex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

aine said:


> ER, I am not saying that if she is a WAW what she is doing is right but sometimes wives tell their H over and over again things are not right. Some men have the emotional maturity of a goat and just don't get anything till it is far too late. The wife suffers, she's done with the heartache, the emotional care taking. He thinks as long as his dinner is ready, she has sex with him, he lies in front of the tv when he wants that all is well with the world. She gives up, withdraws having lost the battle and secretly checks out. It's sad for both but it is what it is. Men should be more tuned in to their wives and many are not, just saying....
> And yes, I speak from experience, had all my ducks in a row, got tired of the emotional abuse and being taken for granted, some men need a 2x4 up the head before they'll take action. My H is a prime example, now he is doing the things he should have been doing years ago, (this only happened when I asked him to move out and started talking about divorce lawyers) and the jury is still out on whether we will make it or not.
> Many men are lazy when it comes to marriage in my opinion and many women put up with it for too long.


I agree that this often happens, unfortunately. I have seen quite a few sh*tty H's.

But it is definitely not a single gender issue.

I have also seen some female relatives, friends, and acquaintances who are either obtuse to their H's needs and desires, or have the equally damaging problem of expecting their H's to be mind-readers.....never mentioning their problems, bottling them up, and then springing them on their H's after they have grown into major issues.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> It's selfish to marry them in the first place, doesn't the guy deserve someone who is attracted to him?


For a lot people who do it, it's not selfishness. It's ignorance. They really believe they're making the correct choice. After all, sexual attraction doesn't matter _that_ much, right? It's just going to wane eventually, anyways. A good personality and other characteristics desirable in a spouse are _much_ more important!"

Even on this forum you see people saying things like it's foolish to throw away an otherwise decent relationship just because you aren't getting sex or aren't sexually attracted to your partner.

We live in a society that downplays the importance of sexual attraction when selecting a mate. It's not selfish to marry someone you aren't that into physically when society tells you it's the sensible choice.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

I wonder if these women that keep a list of their husband's faults and failings are subjecting themselves to such a brutal review and list of "required" changes. I would never want to be responsible for someone's happiness in such a manner. Who wants to live their life with a gun to their head? Sounds like hell. 

I'm of the opinion now that these WAW did their husbands a favor.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

it doesn't matter if she's cheating or not. 

she is honestly telling the dude that she doesn't like him. she is being as upfront as possible. 

she's actually doing him a favor. he can move on with certainty.

and since she is the primary breadwinner, he can sue her for child support/alimony. to continue with the lifestyle he is accustomed to.

win/win.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

DevilsHood35 said:


> Any suggestions?


Ask her, "What's his name and how long has this been going on?"



DevilsHood35 said:


> Any advice?


File for divorce. You've been played for a fool.



DevilsHood35 said:


> Am I being too nice?


Unequivocally YES. Do the 180, have her served her at work, hit the gym and start looking for a replacement.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> For a lot people who do it, it's not selfishness. It's ignorance. They really believe they're making the correct choice. After all, sexual attraction doesn't matter _that_ much, right? It's just going to wane eventually, anyways. A good personality and other characteristics desirable in a spouse are _much_ more important!"
> 
> Even on this forum you see people saying things like it's foolish to throw away an otherwise decent relationship just because you aren't getting sex or aren't sexually attracted to your partner.
> 
> We live in a society that downplays the importance of sexual attraction when selecting a mate. It's not selfish to marry someone you aren't that into physically when society tells you it's the sensible choice.


Then in that case it's selfish to change, because this is the deal you agreed to. Why do you get to change the terms now. (Don't get me wrong I think if I were the spouse I wouldn't want to be married to someone who wasn't attracted to me, but still).


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Then in that case it's selfish to change, because this is the deal you agreed to. Why do you get to change the terms now. (Don't get me wrong I think if I were the spouse I wouldn't want to be married to someone who wasn't attracted to me, but still).


Very few people are willing to sacrifice their entire lives for a deal they made when they didn't know any better. 

And, really, it's selfish to expect them to. 

"Spouse, I am miserable. I am not attracted to you and no longer want to be married to to you. I didn't understand how much physical attraction would matter and married you for your other fine qualities. Unfortunately, those qualities cannot substitute for sexual compatibility. I'd like to divorce amicably."

"NO! You made a deal with me X years ago and I don't care how unhappy you are with me, I am going to hold you to it because I want you to stay."

YIKES!


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

To expand further, I wanted to help you translate a few important statements from bullsh!t to English since she seems fluent in the former:



DevilsHood35 said:


> she told me that she was no longer interested in intimacy with me, and hasn't been for a long time.


I'm guessing the little intimacy you did get was her imagining her boyfriend Chad.



DevilsHood35 said:


> She told me that she has not been attracted to me for a long time.


So rather than address it right away she let it fester until she checked out completely?



DevilsHood35 said:


> She told me that she hasn't felt care for me for years, and an example of that is that whenever I was sick, she couldn't have cared less.


Nothing says love like, "I couldn't care less if you were hit by a bus"



DevilsHood35 said:


> She said that if I would have had an affair, it wouldn't have mattered to her.


Because she's already in one.



DevilsHood35 said:


> She states that she feels like she has never really been able to find out who she is, and she feels like she needs to be free to find herself.


Fortunately, the Chad she has found is showing her. Repeatedly and from multiple angles.



DevilsHood35 said:


> she states that relationships are the last thing that she wants right now.


I almost spit out my coffee when I read this.... 



DevilsHood35 said:


> All she wants is time and space to figure out who she is and what she wants out of life. Once she figures that out, then she says she will be open to relationships.


Cheater speak for, "I need you out of the picture to bring Chad in"



DevilsHood35 said:


> When I have asked her how long she has lacked attraction to me, she looks back at before we were ever even married and sees examples of it.


So she never really loved you essentially. 



DevilsHood35 said:


> she felt that I was the entire package, just without the attraction.


IE You were used as a tool and are now being replaced.



DevilsHood35 said:


> She wants the separation/divorce to be amicable, and wants me to continue to be in her life forever.


She wants to **** you solely to alleviate her guilt. Perhaps you, her and Chad can go out for dinner? You're buying of course.



DevilsHood35 said:


> I have asked her to go to counseling, but she doesn't feel that it will make a difference and so refuses.


Why would she waste her time. your usefulness is over.



DevilsHood35 said:


> I love her deeply, and I see her struggling. I feel her pain, and feel sad/sorry for her.


DON'T. She doesn't care if you were hit by a bus remember?



DevilsHood35 said:


> I want to be mad at her and hate her for what she is doing, but all I feel is love and support for her.


You are codependent, understandable as she caught you off guard and she never loved you to begin with as she stated. Do the 180 and detach.



DevilsHood35 said:


> I'm trying hard not to hold on to the hope that we will get back to being a married couple some day, but I struggle with that daily.


Divorce is the greatest gift you can receive from leaving this vile user.



DevilsHood35 said:


> She has already put down a deposit on an apartment and will be moving out soon.


Thank god. Have her served after she leaves. She WASTED your life. When Chad pumps and dumps, trust me he will, she will come crawling back. DO NOT fall for it. It's a ruse to waste more years of your life. Tell her to go to hell and put your energy into finding a girl who gives a damn about you.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

notmyrealname4 said:


> ===================================
> I'm more concerned as to why this guy was smoking joints in the break room at work.:crazy:


Meh, depends on the local culture, so to speak. 

It's not that uncommon for people here to smoke one in the break room or outside in someone's car during lunch or a break. You, of course, aren't supposed to and could get fired if caught, but a lot of management turn a blind eye as long as you do your job efficiently, show up on time, work overtime when needed, and don't call off.

I've done everything from customer service for a national carrier's call center to working in a furniture plant, to working in a shipping warehouse, to working for auto parts suppliers. Heck, I even worked at a contact lens call center and a fast food chain. 

At each and every one of those jobs, there was a crew of people who all hung out together and who all shared a joint or a bowl at some point during the work day. But woe unto the guy who pissed off management, because they all knew who smoked and that the easiest way to fire you is by popping a surprise drug test.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Very few people are willing to sacrifice their entire lives for a deal they made when they didn't know any better.
> 
> And, really, it's selfish to expect them to.
> 
> ...


Doesn't make the person who said it any less selfish. I agree though I would want to know so I could divorce. However what about the kids, I always see people arguing about staying for the kids after their spouse has an affair. So what about in this situation?


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Doesn't make the person who said it any less selfish. I agree though I would want to know so I could divorce. However what about the kids, I always see people arguing about staying for the kids after their spouse has an affair. So what about in this situation?


Marriage vows and the kids future come in a distant 2nd compared to a woman's happiness. It's all about her. 

Of course, good luck finding a woman that will admit this to you before you marry her in what you think is a lifetime commitment. The vows should be legally amended to read "... until I decide I don't love you anymore or find someone else. At which point I will list all your faults to justify the terrible things I do." If you are willing to accept that from a woman then you will have a great future together. Until she leaves. :grin2:


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The ILYBINILWY speech.....

The wayward wives don't love their husband, but they sure as hell are still in love with his paycheck and retirement and every material thing they can get their hands on. 
I guess there should be wedding vows for the groom's paycheck--- they'd be taken more seriously by all involved.

I do take your paycheck to have and to hold from this day forward, til death do us part, or until I find a fatter paycheck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mommywhatohnothing (May 30, 2016)

Why is it always the woman? My husband took those same vows and was more than ok with walking away when he decided he wanted to be with a man rather than a woman. No t that he hadn't been attracted to me but that he decided he was no longer attracted to women at all anymore.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It's not, which is why I said wayward wives. I'm sure wayward husbands are just as lousy. Just seems that courts pretty much reward wayward wives in divorces, the majority of the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Why do you think that? Should a person settle for a perpetual roommate/good friend situation while longing for a romantic partner? Isn't ending a dead relationship better for both parties?


It would be better to _*NOT*_ get married in the first place. If your OP doesn't make you want to tear their clothes off & get busy, don't marry them.

Let me role reverse here, I know a guy that married a woman that he was not attracted to. He WAS attracted to the fact the the girl's old man was LOADED. It was a SELFISH thing to do. The girl loved him, he was just playin with her emotions.

I've seen it happen in close family members. The guy spent years doting on his OP, would have taken a bullet for her. Suddenly, he could do nothing right, she gave him the ILYBINILWY speech. She trashed him on FB. They split up, and suddenly she's got a new BF with abs. 

Karma is a ***** thou, new BF took her money & left.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Doesn't make the person who said it any less selfish. I agree though I would want to know so I could divorce. However what about the kids, I always see people arguing about staying for the kids after their spouse has an affair. So what about in this situation?


As unpopular as this opinion may be, I think it's even more important to leave if there are kids. Modeling a dead and cold relationship for the children means they are more likely themselves to have a similar relationship when they marry



FrazzledSadHusband said:


> It would be better to _*NOT*_ get married in the first place. If your OP doesn't make you want to tear their clothes off & get busy, don't marry them.
> 
> Let me role reverse here, I know a guy that married a woman that he was not attracted to. He WAS attracted to the fact the the girl's old man was LOADED. It was a SELFISH thing to do. The girl loved him, he was just playin with her emotions.
> 
> ...


There is a very big difference between deliberately marrying someone for their money and honestly not really understanding how important pysical attraction is in a relationship.

Should anyone marry someone they don't want to drag off into dark corners? No. And that is something we need to start telling people much more often. The importance of sexual attraction is far too often downplayed in favor of other desirable qualities in a spouse.

Sex and sexual attraction are seen as a bonus or something that may come later or just simply as less important than other areas of compatibility.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Okay... what if you did have the serial attraction when you dated and married, but after a decade or so of sex with the same person you decide you just aren't attracted any longer. 

Do you leave? What does that show the kids? Trade your spouse in like a pair of shoes or a car?

I agree with you that if you marry someone that you aren't attracted to at all, let's say for money, then you are a selfish POS. But do you justify breaking a lifelong vow if you simply change your mind? Then you should never marry anyone, ever. Or at least disclose this to anyone you date seriously. 

Are there any red flags for this to be an issue down the road? Obviously no woman will disclose this in advance.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

cbnero said:


> Okay... what if you did have the serial attraction when you dated and married, but after a decade or so of sex with the same person you decide you just aren't attracted any longer.
> 
> Do you leave? What does that show the kids? Trade your spouse in like a pair of shoes or a car?
> 
> ...


Sexual attraction is chemical/physical. It's either present or not. it's not something you can decide or change consciously.

Do you leave if you aren't sexually attracted to your spouse? Each person has to decide that for themselves based on how important sex and sexual attraction is to them in a romantic relationship. I imagine a LD/ND person would be much more content to stay in a marriage without feeling sexual attraction than a person who is Normal D/HD.

What does leaving show the kids? How not to be martyrs.

There are a lot of red flags. I can give some examples.

If a woman ever says that sex isn't that important or anything similar, run! 

If she says she's physically into you, don't just take her word for it. Learn the physical signs of female arousal. (Some are increased respiration, flushing of the face,neck, or chest, pupil dilation, that kind of thing) If you aren't seeing them consistently in your presence, walk away.

I know some women like to wait weeks/months to have sex, but if the waiting isn't obviously difficult for her, too, she's not that into you.

If the sex starts to drop off after 1-2 years, your limerence phase is over and she's just not that into you.

There are more and I'm sure I'll think of them, but I'm, sleep deprived and the coffee isn't kickstarting my brain lie it normally does.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> The ILYBINILWY speech.....
> 
> The wayward wives don't love their husband, but they sure as hell are still in love with his paycheck and retirement and every material thing they can get their hands on.


QFT. Entitled to it is the mentality. You OWE it to them after they were FORCED to cheat on you. Despicable.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Mommywhatohnothing said:


> Why is it always the woman? My husband took those same vows and was more than ok with walking away when he decided he wanted to be with a man rather than a woman. Not that he hadn't been attracted to me but that he decided he was no longer attracted to women at all anymore.


You don't really believe that do you? No one "decides" to be gay. He always was and he pretended to be attracted to you because he was ashamed of being homosexual and thought he could fake playing a straight guy. You were just the actress he choose to live out his fantasy marriage with.

You're whole relationship was a complete farce and he played you. Sorry to be so blunt but that's the reality.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Alright so what if your spouse gets fat, or old. Is it OK to leave then? What's the difference. Or what if you just get used to them and you lose attraction, or because you have been with them so long you lose the excitement. Men go through this all the time, I particularly remember the Howard Stearn bit where he would talk about some beautiful actress and how their husband basally gotten used to her and wants someone new (this was said in a much more funny way). That is very much in our nature. 

It is very interesting to me how quickly everyone is will to give the woman a pass. However if I suspect if I were to say husband is no longer attracted to his wife I bet most would not be so quick to say move on.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Well that's my point too. Who are we kidding? Sleeping with someone new after being with the same person for 10 or 20 years is going to sound awesome. I don't care what people say, the sex gets stale or routine after a point. Maybe some people keep the "rip your clothes off" stuff going but I would guess at some point there just isn't going to be much in the way of anything new. 

So at that point the attraction fades. Is that justification in saying you were never really sexually compatible? I would think or hope the relationship evolved into something deeper in addition to the sex by then. 

IMO people use whatever excuses they can drum up to excuse their own lousy behavior.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I always liken it to this:

You get a gift for Christmas that you REALLY love and it makes you incredibly happy.

But the thing is, even if you still love and appreciate it years later.....you are NEVER going to have that immense feeling of ecstatic joy that you experience on that first day.

Familiarity and routine possession of it will naturally reduce those feelings.

I use this as an analogy to the initial wild attraction and love people feel at the beginning of a relationship.

Those feelings simply do not last forever once the routine of years living together takes place.....but mature lasting love will remain in good and decent M's.

What OP's (possibly) WW is doing is what we so commonly see from WSs.....they rewrite their memories of the M to say they NEVER had those initial feelings of attraction and love.

It's part of how they justify the sh*tty choices and behavior they are already doing or planning to begin doing.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> As unpopular as this opinion may be, I think it's even more important to leave if there are kids. Modeling a dead and cold relationship for the children means they are more likely themselves to have a similar relationship when they marry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with you:smile2:


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> As unpopular as this opinion may be, I think it's even more important to leave if there are kids. Modeling a dead and cold relationship for the children means they are more likely themselves to have a similar relationship when they marry


111.11% agree
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Marc878 said:


> Check your phone bill.


Dude, you are capable of better advice than that......I've seen it.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

DevilsHood35 said:


> On June 1st, 12 days after our 9 year anniversary, she told me that she was no longer interested in intimacy with me, and hasn't been for a long time. She told me that she has not been attracted to me for a long time. * She told me that she hasn't felt care for me for years, and an example of that is that whenever I was sick, she couldn't have cared less.* She said that if I would have had an affair, it wouldn't have mattered to her.


To all of you saying that's the "ILYBINILWY" speech, I feel a tremendous amount of concern for your definition of love.

OP Your Wife has told you in no uncertain terms she hopes you die.

Divorce her. Before she can file D on you. And pull a complete 180 on her. Don't look back. 

This is reminiscent of @tech-novelist XW to me. 

I'd get an Attorney, and find out if infidelity affects Divorce. And if it doesn't, I'd find myself a replacement piece of ass immediately. And I'd certainly tell the children exactly why you're divorcing: Mommy told me she doesn't want to be married to me and that she doesn't care if I die. And I don't want for myself or for you to live in that kind of a home.

Seriously, what kind of person says this to the parent of their children? You may want to DNA test your kids. It's available in Walmart and most pharmacies, and costs ~$115


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> To all of you saying that's the "ILYBINILWY" speech, I feel a tremendous amount of concern for your definition of love.
> 
> OP Your Wife has told you in no uncertain terms she hopes you die.
> 
> ...


Yes, the original statement that "whenever I was sick, she couldn't have cared less" is about the same as my XW's attitude in that one case. She wasn't usually that awful, but that put me over the edge.

I'm a lot happier now.

BTW, I never got the ILYBINILWY speech from her, and we continued having sex 6 or 8 times a month during our marriage, which was less than I wanted but not enough to make me leave. So that wasn't the typical scenario for ILYBINILWY anyway.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

None of the cheating, marital history re-writing, power hungry, husband bashing, gold diggers care if the husband they're leaving behind dies. 
Even if they don't say it like the op's wife did, they still feel that way.
They have zero loyalty and very little conscience. That's why they're able to do and say what they do.

Their husband is the past. The only thing that would pique their interest about the husband they leave is if he won the lottery or something. Then they'd be totally pissed that they didn't get in on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I just don't understand why someone starts a thread, and never adds to it. Here we are at 5 pages and he has not replied. When I start a thread, I try to reply to most of the posters, because it draws more out of me that I have not really thought of. Oh well to each his own I guess.


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