# Best way to divorce my wife...



## BetrayedDad

I recently found out my wife has been sleeping with her boss (how cliche) for the last six months. She doesn't know I know yet but she suspects something is wrong. (I'm not a pathelogical liar like she is and can't hide my emotions as well.) 

My attorney basically told me it would be in my best interest, and in getting joint custody of my children, to do this as civilized as possible. He told me to wait until the next marriage counselling session, which is a week from now  and announce it to her then. 

The boss is married so I really want to tell his wife (who just had a baby not long ago mind you) but I'm hesitant now because it will only piss her off and drag this out longer than it needs to be. He said if I decide to make this ugly from the get go then it will cost me big down the road.

Suggestions? If I report them to the bosses wife and their HR dept will it be worth the blowback of a custody and house battle over a short term revenge gratification on my part? It's killing me trying to be the bigger person when I was being treated like a jerk for so long.


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## alte Dame

Let a little time go by and then let the BW know anonymously. She has a right to know.


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## workindad

If you want a d then get the best settlement you can quickly. Protect your self and your assets You can always expose after the fact 

Right now take care of you. That includes getting checked for stds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad

alte Dame said:


> Let a little time go by and then let the BW know anonymously. She has a right to know.


They'll know it was me... Unless I wait until the divorce is over but that could take 3-4 months.


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## workindad

Paternity test the kids also. You don't know if this is her first affair. Paternity tests are cheap fast and private. She does not need to participate. Google it and you will have several results. Unfortunately I had to invest in that process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrrbbbttt

1. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke 

2. Tell HR

3. Tell the POS wife


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## workindad

Wait the 3 or 4 months. It will be worth it to you in the settlement. 

If you want to bust up the affair and attempt R then Expose now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr

Might ask you lawyer what he means by "cost more down the road", is he saying that meaning more in headaches and issues, loss of money, etc. This is a very broad statement and could mean anything. Get further clarification on what he means and decide then if it is worth the "added expense" to you.


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## Hicks

It really depends on what your goal is.
If your goal is the best divorce settlement possible, then listen to your attorney.

Sometimes, exposing an affair and threatining the bosses's life and job causes him to dump your wife like a ton of bricks, therefore ending the affair. When the affiair is killed, sometimes that allows for a reconciliation. But there are no guarantees to anything.


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## Dyokemm

Expose the POS to his BW at least.

You know that if it was her with the info you would definitely want her to inform you.

You can wait til after you get the D outcome you want finalized before going to HR.

But after that, you absolutely should expose this scumbag to HR at the company as well. He just helped destroy your M and your children's family life. Ruin this trash. He fully deserves it.

It is appropriate justice both for yourself and for what he did to your children.


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## BetrayedDad

Hicks said:


> Sometimes, exposing an affair and threatining the bosses's life and job causes him to dump your wife like a ton of bricks, therefore ending the affair. When the affiair is killed, sometimes that allows for a reconciliation. But there are no guarantees to anything.


I'm convinced sooner or later the boss is going to dump my wife anyway. This is not the first subordinate he has hooked up with. My wife has also had an EA in the past so as much as I don't really want to do this, why reconcile? I can't be in a marriage where I don't trust the person and if it wasn't him, it will probably be someone else.


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## GTdad

Hicks said:


> Sometimes, exposing an affair and threatining the bosses's life and job causes him to dump your wife like a ton of bricks


If you're aiming for a quick, successful (however you define it) divorce, take advantage of the "Mister Wonderful" effect. While she's in lala land with the POSOM, planning their future and picking out curtains and maybe, just maybe, feeling a little guilt about you, push the divorce through like a greased rocket sled. Hope their relationship lasts long enough for the divorce to become final.


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## Hicks

Then what you should be doing is listening to your attorney.


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## BetrayedDad

Dyokemm said:


> Expose the POS to his BW at least.
> 
> You know that if it was her with the info you would definitely want her to inform you.


I'm torn because while your 100% right, she could make me getting custody a nightmare, because I drove her fling away. 

All I care about now are the children.


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## Burned

Tread carefully. I'm in a similiar situation in not doing much to piss my STBXW off. She can get and has been nasty in the past and this time she has told me she doesn't wan't anything from me. Don't believe it for a second but will play nice until after everything is settled. I also hope the rage and hatred subside at that time. I just want her to get out of my life, I will deal with her about our children but that is it.


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## badcompany

I think the lawyer is saying you bargain non-exposure in hopes of a settlement well in your favor as far as estate and custody goes. If she so much as twitches you go nuclear, and after it was all signed and done the OMW would still find out somehow if it was me


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## BetrayedDad

GTdad said:


> While she's in lala land with the POSOM, planning their future and picking out curtains and maybe, just maybe, feeling a little guilt about you, push the divorce through like a greased rocket sled. Hope their relationship lasts long enough for the divorce to become final.


LOL, that's exactly where her head is at. Amazing how the pattern of betrayal is always so similar... She's a fool for buying into his crap and I am for giving her the benefit of the doubt all these years.


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## In_The_Wind

I would tell the OW however that is me !!! damn the consequences or threats , you could post them on cheaterville anonymously. I would also separate your funds before i did it , like open a separate checking acct under your name only then spring it on her more than likely she will just lie to ya anyway thats what she has been doing so far. We teach people how to treat us I believe set your boundaries and go for it you have nothing to lose at this point 

Good Luck


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## BetrayedDad

badcompany said:


> I think the lawyer is saying you bargain non-exposure in hopes of a settlement well in your favor as far as estate and custody goes. If she so much as twitches you go nuclear, and after it was all signed and done the OMW would still find out somehow if it was me


This appears to be my only play. Although, I REALLY want to blow it up now...


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## Kukuy

I hope i am not too late...

Dont do anything dumb! If you play your cards right, you will come out on top of all this!

1. Separate your finances RIGHT NOW - Create a separate bank account!
2. DO NOT leave your house - it will get rough but stand your ground if you want to avoid getting screwed
3. Record conversations - record any violent outbursts and any arguments where she is treating you like a jerk
4. Get her out of your life/medical/auto insurance if possible
5. Remove her access to all credit line that is in your name
6. Change your email, work email, messenger apps, ipad... every single password she may know!
7. GET A LAWYER and FILE FIRST!

At this point there should be little if any emotional attachment going on on your side, she has obviously lost the feelings she once had and you cannot let that get the best of you.

Under no circumstances:
1. Be rude to her - let her show the bad attitude, rudeness, etc...
2. Have sexual intercourse with her - once the divorce proceedings are in place and if she is vindictive she can cause you a WHOLE lot of trouble for a night of stupidity on your part.

The whole point now is that if she is cheating on you, then she is having her cake and eating it too - The moment you shatter her little fantasy, she will turn on you and rip your world apart worse than she already has.


=============

I hate to sound like a woman hater lol (believe me i love women!) but a scorned woman is something to be scared of lol

=============

I was in your situation
Married
2 young kids
house, car, cat, dog, debt...

Wife wanted a divorce but i was ready for her this time - i will simply leave it at that.

I currently have temporary custody of my kids as we finalize proceedings and while she filed first i got my wits about me early on and have so far come out on top of all of this!

If you are looking for custody
Keep in mind that nowdays the whole thing about men not being able to raise their kids properly is nothing but old school mentality! you helped make those kids and if you feel that you are a better option for them then fight for your chance - the playing field has been leveled as of the last few years and a Divorce is no longer an agreement as to how bad the man gets screwed!


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## Willowfin

I would be slow to tell Company HR - What outcome are you hoping for - that he'd be fired? His wife just had a baby - why put her under financial pressure - let her report him to his employer if she wants to. If you're hoping that your W will lose her job - well won't that mean that it will cost you more in a settlement? Calm clear thinking is paramount. Good luck


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## GTdad

BetrayedDad said:


> This appears to be my only play. Although, I REALLY want to blow it up now...


Hell, I get that. It's a matter of determining what your primary goals are, though. For me it would be 1) at least 50-50 custody and 2) minimizing any financial impact. Anything else would be way down the list.

Now, I might be tempted to let on to your stbxw that you just might have to fill the OMW in on what's going on if this divorce doesn't go through quickly and on favorable terms (and then tell her anyways once you've gotten what you want), but you know your wife and how to play that card better than we do. Just don't let the desire for immediate gratification make it harder to obtain your long-term goals.


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## BetrayedDad

The lawyer also told me if I piss her off and she decides to leave with the kids then 9 times out of 10 I can't stop her. She's the mother and is considered the nurturing parent so I'd have to file an emergency injuction and it will get ugly fast. That's her only play so it's a cold war standoff in my mind.


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## MattMatt

Follow your lawyer's advice. Nobody buys a dog only to bark themselves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kukuy

BetrayedDad said:


> The lawyer also told me if I piss her off and she decides to leave with the kids then 9 times out of 10 I can't stop her. She's the mother and is considered the nurturing parent so I'd have to file an emergency injuction and it will get ugly fast. That's her only play so it's a cold war standoff in my mind.


Some of that is true - Dont piss her off until it is a last resort 

Get your shizz together - if she leaves w/o the kids it can be bad for her, if she leaves with the kids it can still be bad for her!

Which brings the point I brought up - dont leave the house, dont give in! Carry on about your business and get your ducks in a row!

Kicking her out is not an option as she is likely to take the kids, leaving is not an option because she could claim abandonment - Even if it needs 6 months to legally be considered as such! The simple fact you are leaving your marital home can cost you a lot of grief and time with your kids.

Also keep in mind that adultery is cause for an "at fault" divorce and even though some states do not recognize it, if you play your cards properly some judges will see the wrong and treat it as such giving you at least a better position with him.

When you file first you get to set yourt terms!

Ask that the kids remain in the marital home with you, and leave her the option to stay or go!

Make sure a morality clause is there and above it all make it clear that the other dude is not allowed in your house at any time.

its sort of like a chess match - you make your move first adn wait to see what her move is, but overall having the first go at setting the rules is HUGE!


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## workindad

Listen to yor lawyer. Protect your assets and access to your kids. 

Expose her after the settlement is done. You owe her no loyalty then. 

Expose posom to his wife then as well. He has no consideration for you. Show him none in return. If he gets fired he can start job hunting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingAhead

I would not tell HR if I were you. If she gets fired it could go wrong for you in alimony or child support for you. Remember Turds of a Feather Fvck Together.

Let them lie in there own crap. There are different theories for how to deal with the children. I have to say that I have been honest with mine and although I pay a huge amount of child support and only have joint custody, my relationship is much better with them than their mother's is. Be honest with them and if they ask a really hard question, answer it honestly.


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## MovingAhead

If you catch her in adultery, you can have an upper hand in court. It needs to be proven. Otherwise you could get booted from your own house. Consider a PI.


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## tom67

Tell his wife but forget about HR let her do it if she wants jmo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Why do you think for even a second that she's not going to demand and fight for everything, regardless of you exposing or not?

Almost every guy who thinks he's going to be nice and get a good deal finds out that not only is their wife cheating, but she also feels entitled to the kids , spousal support, the house, and half the money.

Carlton played this game just like you, and it didn't give him any advantage at the table - his wife still demanded everything and the kids. 

Right now she feels strong and supported bupy her OM. Someone who feels strong and confident is always bad to negotiate with.

Btw, attorneys often advise against exposure etc, not because it makes their clients case stronger, but because it makes the lawyers job easier to do without fighting and drama. They just want a fast clean legal process, whereas you might have other goals.


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## Squeakr

mygirlsaremylifenow said:


> I hope i am not too late...
> 
> Dont do anything dumb! If you play your cards right, you will come out on top of all this!
> 
> 1. Separate your finances RIGHT NOW - Create a separate bank account!
> 2. DO NOT leave your house - it will get rough but stand your ground if you want to avoid getting screwed
> 3. Record conversations - record any violent outbursts and any arguments where she is treating you like a jerk
> 4. Get her out of your life/medical/auto insurance if possible
> 5. Remove her access to all credit line that is in your name
> 6. Change your email, work email, messenger apps, ipad... every single password she may know!
> 7. GET A LAWYER and FILE FIRST!
> 
> At this point there should be little if any emotional attachment going on on your side, she has obviously lost the feelings she once had and you cannot let that get the best of you.
> 
> Under no circumstances:
> 1. Be rude to her - let her show the bad attitude, rudeness, etc...
> 2. Have sexual intercourse with her - once the divorce proceedings are in place and if she is vindictive she can cause you a WHOLE lot of trouble for a night of stupidity on your part.
> 
> The whole point now is that if she is cheating on you, then she is having her cake and eating it too - The moment you shatter her little fantasy, she will turn on you and rip your world apart worse than she already has.
> 
> 
> =============
> 
> I hate to sound like a woman hater lol (believe me i love women!) but a scorned woman is something to be scared of lol
> 
> =============
> 
> I was in your situation
> Married
> 2 young kids
> house, car, cat, dog, debt...
> 
> Wife wanted a divorce but i was ready for her this time - i will simply leave it at that.
> 
> I currently have temporary custody of my kids as we finalize proceedings and while she filed first i got my wits about me early on and have so far come out on top of all of this!
> 
> If you are looking for custody
> Keep in mind that nowdays the whole thing about men not being able to raise their kids properly is nothing but old school mentality! you helped make those kids and if you feel that you are a better option for them then fight for your chance - the playing field has been leveled as of the last few years and a Divorce is no longer an agreement as to how bad the man gets screwed!


Although for the most part this is good advice, talk to your lawyer before jumping to any decisions. What is stated above is not true for all states and conditions. In my state, it is fine to have sex with the WS, but if you say you forgive them, then it is a whole different ball game and the adultery is considered a moot point. Also, just because custody has become more progressive, not all states follow that premise and it could end up causing big issues in the end. My state still makes adultery a criminal offense, as well as a grounds for immediate denial of alimony in divorces. It also allows for lawsuits against the AP. You need to sit down and cover all of your bases with your lawyer. It will cost you some of his time (and your money to cover his time) but it is better to know in advance because if she is vindictive, there is no do over granted.


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## BetrayedDad

MovingAhead said:


> If you catch her in adultery, you can have an upper hand in court. It needs to be proven. Otherwise you could get booted from your own house. Consider a PI.


I already have concrete proof but my attorney told me unless she was spending marital assets on him (he buys the hotel rooms) or having an undue influence on my kids (they have never met him) then there is no benefit in using adultery other than being a longer road.

Apparently in my state you can be considered a bad wife but a good mom. How f***ed up is that???


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## Kukuy

BetrayedDad said:


> I already have concrete proof but my attorney told me unless she was spending marital assets on him (he buys the hotel rooms) or having an undue influence on my kids (they have never met him) then there is no benefit in using adultery other than being a longer road.
> 
> *Apparently in my state you can be considered a bad wife but a good mom. How f***ed up is that???*


Sadly, that is a widespread problem lol


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## ThePheonix

BetrayedDad said:


> They'll know it was me... Unless I wait until the divorce is over but that could take 3-4 months.


The answer is a simple one. Get someone else to do the job. Who give a damn if they know it was you. In court, its not what you know, its what the evidence shows. Getting the dirt out on these two, while keeping your own hands clean, would be a cake walk.


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## tom67

Make sure you serve her at work and let the omw now on the same day kind of a 2 for 1 deal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WyshIknew

Shaggy said:


> Why do you think for even a second that she's not going to demand and fight for everything, regardless of you exposing or not?
> 
> Almost every guy who thinks he's going to be nice and get a good deal finds out that not only is their wife cheating, but she also feels entitled to the kids , spousal support, the house, and half the money.
> 
> Carlton played this game just like you, and it didn't give him any advantage at the table - his wife still demanded everything and the kids.
> 
> Right now she feels strong and supported bupy her OM. Someone who feels strong and confident is always bad to negotiate with.
> 
> Btw, attorneys often advise against exposure etc, not because it makes their clients case stronger, but because it makes the lawyers job easier to do without fighting and drama. They just want a fast clean legal process, whereas you might have other goals.


This!


Obviously TAM represents a skewed sample but I have seen very few, if any cases, where when the chips are down the wayward spouse goes easy on the betrayed spouse.

Shaggy mentioned Carlton but straight off the top of my head I can think of Eric whose wife was super sorry and didn't want anything but changed her tune as the divorce loomed.

I'm not saying to ignore the lawyers advice, that after all is what you pay them for.

Just take heed of Shaggy's post.


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## Ovid

I'd try to take the easy road, but if she got nasty i'd blow the A up.

I'd have the papers ready at the MC to start pushing the D ASAP.


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## BetrayedDad

Ovid said:


> I'd try to take the easy road, but if she got nasty i'd blow the A up.
> 
> I'd have the papers ready at the MC to start pushing the D ASAP.


That was the plan. Just don't want to be accused of blackmail either....


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## Dad&Hubby

Shaggy said:


> Why do you think for even a second that she's not going to demand and fight for everything, regardless of you exposing or not?
> 
> Almost every guy who thinks he's going to be nice and get a good deal finds out that not only is their wife cheating, but she also feels entitled to the kids , spousal support, the house, and half the money.
> 
> Carlton played this game just like you, and it didn't give him any advantage at the table - his wife still demanded everything and the kids.
> 
> Right now she feels strong and supported bupy her OM. Someone who feels strong and confident is always bad to negotiate with.
> 
> *Btw, attorneys often advise against exposure etc, not because it makes their clients case stronger, but because it makes the lawyers job easier to do without fighting and drama. They just want a fast clean legal process, whereas you might have other goals.*


Shaggy's dead on. Coming from a guy who divorced a woman who cheated on him and then tried to ramrod me in court as well. Being the "nice"/"fair"/"reasonable" person with a cheater in divorce court...is an oxymoron.

It doesn't mean your attorney's advice isn't sound though for the very thing that Shaggy says at the end that is bolded.

Unfortunately, the adultery means squat diddly in court. With that being said, get the divorce done as quickly and as easily as possible. It's impossible to heal while you're still married and going through a divorce. You regain yourself after the divorce is final so get it over with quickly.

There is also something to be said about the STBXW being in happy land versus if the OM just dumped her and she blames you. She'll intentionally try to screw you if you took her "honey boo" away. 

My suggestion would be to get the divorce over and then go nuclear.


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## tom67

Forgot to mention this but get tested for STDs I would say that is kind of important.


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## tom67

One thing is for sure her lover/boss will be shyting in his pants when she get's served at work.


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## tom67

WyshIknew said:


> This!
> 
> 
> Obviously TAM represents a skewed sample but I have seen very few, if any cases, where when the chips are down the wayward spouse goes easy on the betrayed spouse.
> 
> Shaggy mentioned Carlton but straight off the top of my head I can think of Eric whose wife was super sorry and didn't want anything but changed her tune as the divorce loomed.
> 
> I'm not saying to ignore the lawyers advice, that after all is what you pay them for.
> 
> Just take heed of Shaggy's post.


Eric is a perfect example of not exposing and still had to pay and the om gets promoted and moves away. That was sad!


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## harrybrown

I would listen to my attorney and later take care of both of them with HR. How did you catch her?


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## toonaive

Dad&Hubby said:


> Shaggy's dead on. Coming from a guy who divorced a woman who cheated on him and then tried to ramrod me in court as well. Being the "nice"/"fair"/"reasonable" person with a cheater in divorce court...is an oxymoron.
> 
> It doesn't mean your attorney's advice isn't sound though for the very thing that Shaggy says at the end that is bolded.
> 
> Unfortunately, the adultery means squat diddly in court. With that being said, get the divorce done as quickly and as easily as possible. It's impossible to heal while you're still married and going through a divorce. You regain yourself after the divorce is final so get it over with quickly.
> 
> There is also something to be said about the STBXW being in happy land versus if the OM just dumped her and she blames you. She'll intentionally try to screw you if you took her "honey boo" away.
> 
> My suggestion would be to get the divorce over and then go nuclear.


This is exactly what my AxW is doing to me now. She started off all nice and amicable. 19 months later both she and her attorney are scratching for money. Now she wants more than she equitably deserves. I have taken precautions with my business, and thankfully in SC I can use Adultery as my final trump card! Ive got years of evidence and PI reports. Cant wait to see her face if I have to use it all.


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## Kukuy

wait to expose her... If you guys have been married longer than 10 yrs (depending on which state you live) you could be subject for spousal support so while you would be embarrasing her at work and feeling vindicated, you would only end up hurting yourself financially as the judge is likely to order spousal support or if she has no shame demanding it like mine tried to LMAO

once the papers are finalized or she is out of your house and living on her own, you can do as you wish, expose her, tell her mother, tell her friends the truth!

Most divorce papers, temporary orders, injunctions and such have a clause that states you will not talk bad about each other to friends, family and co-workers - it sounds silly but its a "PLAY NICE while you get this divorce done directive for grown ups"


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## Squeakr

michzz said:


> Divorce, yes. Expose before final?
> 
> NO!
> 
> You will have to pay more alimony if she is out of work.
> 
> The court will not care why she is out of work in deciding support levels.


This information, like most given, is state dependent. SOme will look at the reason she is without work (and if terminated for reasons of adultery, work place affairs, or some criminal offenses) and decide the separation of incomes and base hers upon her earning power.


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## tom67

Find out specifics on money issues from your attorney asap then we can give you more appropiate info likewise.


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## Squeakr

Also keep in mind that usually when they agree to an amicable divorce with wanting little from you, they don't have the lawyer secured yet. Lawyers jobs are to protect the interests of their clients the best they can and several will become ruthless in divorce to avoid being hauled back into court for not doing their job to the best of their abilities (so even though the WS doesn't want to play nasty sometimes they are pushed into it by their lawyers whom are just doing their job to the best of their abilities and when they see the $$$ they play along).


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## tom67

Squeakr said:


> Also keep in mind that usually when they agree to an amicable divorce with wanting little from you, they don't have the lawyer secured yet. Lawyers jobs are to protect the interests of their clients the best they can and several will become ruthless in divorce to avoid being hauled back into court for not doing their job to the best of their abilities (so even though the WS doesn't want to play nasty sometimes they are pushed into it by their lawyers whom are just doing their job to the best of their abilities and when they see the $$$ they play along).


Yea billable hours watch it!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

If you can, try to talk to the bosses wife. She really deserves to know as much as you do.

I'm sorry what happened. You are handling this very well.


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## workindad

tom67 said:


> One thing is for sure her lover/boss will be shyting in his pants when she get's served at work.


I would certainly do this.


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## Jasel

Shaggy said:


> Why do you think for even a second that she's not going to demand and fight for everything, regardless of you exposing or not?
> 
> Almost every guy who thinks he's going to be nice and get a good deal finds out that not only is their wife cheating, but she also feels entitled to the kids , spousal support, the house, and half the money.
> 
> Carlton played this game just like you, and it didn't give him any advantage at the table - his wife still demanded everything and the kids.
> 
> Right now she feels strong and supported bupy her OM. Someone who feels strong and confident is always bad to negotiate with.
> 
> Btw, attorneys often advise against exposure etc, not because it makes their clients case stronger, but because it makes the lawyers job easier to do without fighting and drama. They just want a fast clean legal process, whereas you might have other goals.


I agree with Shaggy unless you can find a way to make the divorce go as quickly as possible. 

Can't think of any guy who has come here whose wife has cheated and was able to get the wife to _not_ eventually wind up trying to take them for whatever they could as far as custody, alimony, the house, and child support are concerned.

Many are just selfish, entitled, and listen to the advice of their lawyers who have their client's and their own best interest at heart. 

I can't recall too many situations on TAM where the male BS exposed the female WS and that somehow caused them to lose anymore in the divorce than they would have by not exposing and trying to be amicable in the hopes that the WS and their lawyer will be "fair". Actually I can't recall any.


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## tom67

Jasel said:


> I agree with Shaggy unless you can find a way to make the divorce go as quickly as possible.
> 
> Can't think of any guy who has come here whose wife has cheated and was able to get the wife to _not_ eventually wind up trying to take them for whatever they could as far as custody, alimony, the house, and child support are concerned.
> 
> Many are just selfish, entitled, and listen to the advice of their lawyers who have their client's and their own best interest at heart.
> 
> I can't recall too many situations on TAM where the male BS exposed the female WS and that somehow caused them to lose anymore in the divorce than they would have by not exposing and trying to be amicable in the hopes that the WS and their lawyer will be "fair". Actually I can't recall any.


I can't either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

OP What state?


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## BetrayedDad

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I'm sorry what happened. You are handling this very well.


I've been talking to friends nonstop about it. That seems to help with the nausea. I've lost 10 pounds in a few days and have no appetite... It's waiting until next week to break it to her that's killing me. I want to do it now badly but I think doing it in a controlled setting on MY terms is best for everyone.


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## Healer

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm convinced sooner or later the boss is going to dump my wife anyway. This is not the first subordinate he has hooked up with. My wife has also had an EA in the past so as much as I don't really want to do this, why reconcile? I can't be in a marriage where I don't trust the person and if it wasn't him, it will probably be someone else.


I would certainly divorce her. That's a tough pickle to be in in terms of having to ***** foot because of potential custody/money issues. That part you will have to decide if you can play the nice guy until you get a settlement signed that you can live with. Once that's done, expose and decimate. It's rough though because this POSom's wife is in the dark and needs to know.

Either way I'm glad to hear you are ending it.


----------



## Healer

Are you in a no fault state?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Healer said:


> Are you in a no fault state?


Yup and Equitable Distribution State as well if that helps.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Yup and Equitable Distribution State as well if that helps.


Well that's pretty cut and dry. Maybe being shocked out of lala land she might straighten out but how could you trust her ick! Carry a var on you after she is served so you don't get a false dv charge on you.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BetrayedDad said:


> Yup and Equitable Distribution State as well if that helps.


Are you in NY?


----------



## Rugs

Listen to your lawyer


----------



## the guy

These are tough times brother...I recommend you go to your favorite resturant, get your favorite meal that you don't mind eating cold so getit to go.
It helped me eat as I took small bights thru out the day.

Also, every time this crap enters your mind, tell your self " I diserve good things" every time I would start tripping about my old lady screwing around a repeated to my self "I diserve good things"

Dude, you must force this crap out of your head so you can, function.... this sh!t eats at you all phucking day...so again when this evil crap enters your head tell those bad thoughts that you " deserve good things" 

Back in the day (3 yrs ago) every second of the day I would tell my self " I diserve good things" a million times a day my old lady phucking around was always popping up in my head.

I hope this helps you get through the first few months...cuz those are the toughest. In time the crap your chick did will level off..

So don't let it define you...this is her cross to bear not yours.

The best thing you can do is show her how confident you are and never let her see you cry. Smile and wish her the best cuz your STBXW has defined her self!

Stay strong and never beg...thank her for the get out of jail free card and again wish her the best....no matter how hard it is she has to see that you are looking at this as a fovor from her.

So at the end of the day brother, fake it until you make it....you will make it!


----------



## the guy

tom67 said:


> Carry a var on you after she is served so you don't get a false dv charge on you.


That and get any admission about the affair.

The voice activated recorder (VAR) should be your best friend.

See your old lady is going to flip the phuck out once your take her perfect life away. She is going to be pissed that she can no longer have what she wants.

She has it made and now/soon you will be a very big thorn in her life.

She will not like her new reality and her 1st reaction might be that she is sorry but once she sees you ain't playing her game she will be angry.

It happens alot, once the WW doesn"t have the blind husband that she can betray she gets angry that she can't have her way any more.

As stupid as it is whatch out for a women scorned. You are about to take her lover away and she ain't going to like that...then top it off with dumping her...well there is no telling!!!!!

Keep the VAR on you!!!!


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> That and get any admission about the affair.
> 
> The voice activated recorder (VAR) should be your best friend.
> 
> See your old lady is going to flip the phuck out once your take her perfect life away. She is going to be pissed that she can no longer have what she wants.
> 
> She has it made and now/soon you will be a very big thorn in her life.
> 
> She will not like her new reality and her 1st reaction might be that she is sorry but once she sees you ain't playing her game she will be angry.
> 
> It happens alot, once the WW doesn"t have the blind husband that she can betray she gets angry that she can't have her way any more.
> 
> As stupid as it is whatch out for a women scorned. You are about to take her lover away and she ain't going to like that...then top it off with dumping her...well there is no telling!!!!!
> 
> Keep the VAR on you!!!!


And if he has herpes like you said earlier you have to let the omw know this is a health risk to her let alone the right thing to do and you will feel so empowered after. Take care.


----------



## BetrayedDad

the guy said:


> The voice activated recorder (VAR) should be your best friend.


I looked into this and I appear to live in a state that requires both parties consent. So any recording I make would be inadmissible anyway (and I don't want any legal troubles.)


----------



## 3putt

It's not illegal if the sole intent is to protect yourself from trumped up DV charges. We're not talking about admissible court evidence here, we're talking about self preservation and protection from what SO many of us have seen way too many times before.

Get a VAR.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> I looked into this and I appear to live in a state that requires both parties consent. So any recording I make would be inadmissible anyway (and I don't want any legal troubles.)


You aren't using it for court, you are using it so the police officer listens to the truth and doesn't arrest you. I would be shocked if anything happened you are trying to protect yourself because a dv charge is serious shyt just my opinion.


----------



## thatbpguy

BetrayedDad said:


> I recently found out my wife has been sleeping with her boss (how cliche) for the last six months. She doesn't know I know yet but she suspects something is wrong. (I'm not a pathelogical liar like she is and can't hide my emotions as well.)
> 
> My attorney basically told me it would be in my best interest, and in getting joint custody of my children, to do this as civilized as possible. He told me to wait until the next marriage counselling session, which is a week from now  and announce it to her then.
> 
> The boss is married so I really want to tell his wife (who just had a baby not long ago mind you) but I'm hesitant now because it will only piss her off and drag this out longer than it needs to be. He said if I decide to make this ugly from the get go then it will cost me big down the road.
> 
> Suggestions? If I report them to the bosses wife and their HR dept will it be worth the blowback of a custody and house battle over a short term revenge gratification on my part? It's killing me trying to be the bigger person when I was being treated like a jerk for so long.


I have not read any of the responses so if this is not in keeping with the progression of the thread, I apologize.

Let me sum it up this way:

Honest is the best policy.

Always.

Tell your wife, tell HR, tell the boss's wife as is appropriate and let the chips fall where they may. Try to do so in some sort of scripted way or who to tell when... and you just make a mess of your cleverness.

Tell them. Right between the eyes. Be direct and honest.


----------



## Will_Kane

A typed letter to other man's wife:

Dear OMW,

I work with your husband and also with a woman named YourWifeName. They are having an affair. I feel you have the right to know. I'm sorry I can't sign my name, but I don't want repercussions at work. I saw them at XYZ hotel together on DATE and I have witnessed inappropriate behavior at work.

Anonymous


----------



## Will_Kane

When there is infidelity, it seems like most of the time it gets nasty anyway, even if the betrayed tries to keep it civil and doesn't expose. It has a way of blowing up.

Cheater doesn't want divorce, she wants you and him. She doesn't want to be known as a cheater, so as soon as she knows that you know, she may start demonizing you to all others to justify her cheating. She may already be doing so to justify it to herself or as a preparation for divorcing you. Hard to stay civil under those circumstances.

If you want to keep it civil, don't tell her you know she's cheating. Just tell her you want out, it's not working out for you, you just grew apart, you're going in different directions, you no longer have anything in common, there's no spark between you anymore, you don't feel a "love connection" like you used to, you haven't been happy for a long time, you feel like only roommates, you just don't feel any passion anymore, you think that you both would be better off apart, you can always remain friends and co-parent the kids, and you've decided to seek divorce. You can still out her to other man's wife anonymously as a work colleague so your wife won't know it was you. You can tell her you knew about the cheating AFTER the divorce is finalized, at which time you can tell her how bad you played her to get a favorable settlement if you want to.


----------



## warlock07

How long was she cheating on you ?


----------



## RClawson

BetrayedDad said:


> *She's the mother and is considered the nurturing parent so I'd have to file an emergency injuction and it will get ugly fast. .*




This is about the biggest crock of dung that there is. When I read on this site about men who are being cheated on and they are frozen in fear because they do not want to get the short end of the custody stick it makes me want to scream with a bull horn from the Empire State Building observation deck.

Ask my two girls who the more nurturing parent is and I guarantee they will not even blink before they say it is me. This is a double standard that feminism seems to overlook. One of many.

OP keep your head and wait for the revenge after the deal is in place. Then you can turn into a giant douche canoe.


----------



## Chaparral

This gets argued here every month or two. So far not one man has come to the conclusion waiting to expose was worth or worked at all. Up to now the betrayed spouse that doesn't jump on the affair partners with both feet, just seem to deflate and slink away sooner than later.

On the flip side, I can't remember any one being sorry they exposed. As a matter of fact, exposure seems to under cut the affair partners and takes the pompous wind out of their sails as everyone looks at them as they really are.

What many are recommending is that you don't stand up for yourself or your family but cant give any example of that working.

Its the equivalent of just handing over your wife to the om's harem and patting him on the back.

Go big or go home.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> This gets argued here every month or two. So far not one man has come to the conclusion waiting to expose was worth or worked at all. Up to now the betrayed spouse that doesn't jump on the affair partners with both feet, just seem to deflate and slink away sooner than later.
> 
> On the flip side, I can't remember any one being sorry they exposed. As a matter of fact, exposure seems to under cut the affair partners and takes the pompous wind out of their sails as everyone looks at them as they really are.
> 
> What many are recommending is that you don't stand up for yourself or your family but cant give any example of that working.
> 
> Its the equivalent of just handing over your wife to the om's harem and patting him on the back.
> 
> Go big or go home.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, why would you waste money on another mg session?

Just have the papers drawn up, name the boss as corespondent, and have her served at work.

The best defense is a good offense. She already has lost respect for you, why do you think being nice is going to change that. It hasn't worked so far.


----------



## the guy

BetrayedDad said:


> I looked into this and I appear to live in a state that requires both parties consent. So any recording I make would be inadmissible anyway (and I don't want any legal troubles.)


What I'm talking about is for your ears only. What I mean is your old lady is not right and she is not the same women you married. 
You may need the VAR jsut to replay it to your self cuz what she just said may be so unblievable that you just might need to play it back....cuz in the end she will manipulat your and screw with your head that it will get to a point were you might actually believ what she says later/in the future verus what she tells you now.

Trust me in time the story will change and the deniel will grow when sh!t heads south.

Again the VAR is your personal tool...everyone knows it don't mean a thing to any one else...much less the courts.

But then again when she hits her self and calls the cops and has you removed from the marital home ...you will be damn glad you had it!

Just saying this is about you and protecting your self..hopefully the only one that ever hears it will only be you.


Even if you never have to use the VAR in a false DV claim.. at least you will have it when you start to get messed with and you ask your self..."did she realy say that"....


----------



## zookeeper

GTdad said:


> If you're aiming for a quick, successful (however you define it) divorce, take advantage of the "Mister Wonderful" effect. While she's in lala land with the POSOM, planning their future and picking out curtains and maybe, just maybe, feeling a little guilt about you, push the divorce through like a greased rocket sled. Hope their relationship lasts long enough for the divorce to become final.


Haven't read all the responses, but this one is spot on. Use her fantasy of being with the OM to your advantage. Once her affair fails and she has to come backmtomreality, she won't be too happy. Take a guess who she will focus that discontent on? 

Move this thing along as quickly as possible. Expose him to his wife after the divorce is final. A good friend of mine went through something similar last year. When his wife gave him trouble about anything in the divorce, he threatened to expose the OM to the hospital (OM is a doctor) and his wife would immediately concede to protect the man she thought she was gong to end up with. The divorce went through smoothly, quickly and without lawyers. Naturally, the OM lost interest in her once she actually became available. She then exposed the Dr. to his wife and hilarity ensued.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

RClawson said:


> [/B]
> 
> This is about the biggest crock of dung that there is. When I read on this site about men who are being cheated on and they are frozen in fear because they do not want to get the short end of the custody stick it makes me want to scream with a bull horn from the Empire State Building observation deck.
> 
> Ask my two girls who the more nurturing parent is and I guarantee they will not even blink before they say it is me. This is a double standard that feminism seems to overlook. One of many.
> 
> OP keep your head and wait for the revenge after the deal is in place. Then you can turn into a giant douche canoe.


It is a crock but it's also essentially what my lawyer told me when I investigated. She could legally take my kids anywhere and I couldn't stop her without a court order specifically preventing her from doing that. My wife was threatening to move the kids to Texas to live with her mother. Now, I don't think it would be difficult to get that court order but if she took the kids before I got the order then chances are good that I would be SOL. I would have to appeal to the other state to get my kids back but that is unlikely and I would have to pick up everything and move and then work things out.


----------



## Hardtohandle

I wouldn't blow him up to his wife just yet..

I would tell your wife you know, but that you don't care and that your looking to get this divorce done ASAP..

You know your wife, I don't.. But if you fear she will go nuclear, I'm also a bit concerned of what makes you think she will not fight for everything anyways ? 

Divorce is a business transaction. You will both have joint custody unless one of you can prove the other is deficient. 

As you already mentioned an having an affair means sh1t.. Unless you can prove the affair took over her life to a point that she neglected the kids.

All I can say about lawyers is I deal with them every day and my friend ( a lawyer ) referred me to my current attorney. His statement was this is the guy I would use if I was getting divorced. Nonetheless if I went his route I would have been broke.

I pretty much negotiated my whole settlement. My STBXW walked away with 55k and 700 a month in child support for 1 child. I kept my pension, plus other retirement funds and the house. The big thing she walks away from was the debt/mortgage. But I have over 700k in equity on the home.

If anything I would let her know you won't blow up the other man up to his wife that just had a baby if she doesn't fvck with you during the divorce.. Otherwise all bets are off and YOU will go NUCLEAR.. Tell her you will plaster his home and neighbors home with flyers. 

My wife hinted once only for a second that she was gonna rake me over the coals. I shut her down so fvcking fast she didn't say boo afterwards..

Nutshell today for me my oldest 13 year old is with me 7 days a week. His mother doesn't even speak to him or see him. Why ? Simply out of shame, straight and simple. 

My 8 year old is with his mother 2 days a week. Monday and Tuesday. Now this is the son that was suppose to be with her and I am paying child support for. But he does not want to live their with her, so he stays with me. 

Even though I got away with divorce lottery I am no fool and looking to poke the tiger. I am waiting for the divorce to be finalized and then I will address the child support issue. This way if she wants to fight it at least she cannot fight me for anything else. Well she can but it will be impossible for her to get anything. 

End result my plan is to offer her 200 a month and then I will offer her 10k for full custody. Which is my ultimate goal. If she is nuts to give me full custody it is all over. 

But I tell you I expected to be raked over the coals 8 months ago. You never know how life and this stuff will turn out. I never, never expected my kids to ever be with me. They were so much with their mom. But fortunately she played out her whole affair in front of my kids and it turned my oldest against her. My Ex not having any coping skills just does what she knows how to do. She shuts down and puts her head in the sand hoping it will all go away. The other man is happy because lets be honest he doesn't want my kids.. He just wants her which is fine by me. 

So my point is don't show that your weak. Let her know you can be fair but one wrong move and bam the flood gates of hate open up.


But here is another side.. 

Do you really want the divorce ? I mean it seems you guys weren't happy way before this from what your posting. 

If you guys disconnected long ago can you blame her for having an affair ? I am not siding with her. But when I read a post like this you either have brass balls and are very emotionally strong or you honestly have lost your love for her long before this. This is just your excuse to divorce her now and walk away clean not being the bad guy.


Again I'm just reading your going to MC and that guys are like room mates. I don't know if its because of the affair you started MC a while ago and just didn't know about the affair or was the MC for other reasons and this is just another issue separate and apart from the other problems in your marriage.

Usually when someone finds out about the affair they are bit more devastated and emotional about it. You seem like well I don't loose my money how do I protect my finances. I went this route as well but it wasn't until later on when I knew I couldn't get my wife back. 

But until then I was crying mess.

I guess my point is to please make sure this is what you want. Trust me it isn't easy.. My wife screwed me over and ripped me apart. But she wasn't all evil, she wasn't all bad. She made a big mistake. She didn't know how to express what was going on inside her. Granted she is a big girl and should have known better. But in the end people do make mistakes. That is what makes us human. 

At this point I know there is no turning back for me. I can't wait around wondering if my ex will ever come to her senses and look to fix herself for herself and or her family and kids. I had to begrudgingly move on with my life without her. For me there is not turning back. There is no wait I finally fixed myself 2 years later and want back in. For me I tried everything to fix my marriage. I would have eaten her crap off the floor and cut off my right arm to fix my marriage. But when I had to face the reality it was over, then and only then did I put my game face on and went into FU mode.. 

My wife was foolish in the sense all she had to do was be nice and understanding and I would have crumbled. But she couldn't get out of her own way fast enough. Even me telling her the answers, she didn't get it or didn't care. 

Just take a minute or two and make sure this is where you want to be at before you cut loose.


----------



## weightlifter

I would use her fog against her. Use the threat of exposure as leverage. Consult your lawyer on this part.

OH AND BACK UP YOUR EVIDENCE OFFSITE AND IN AT LEAST TWO PLACES!!!!


----------



## Dad&Hubby

toonaive said:


> This is exactly what my AxW is doing to me now. She started off all nice and amicable. 19 months later both she and her attorney are scratching for money. Now she wants more than she equitably deserves. I have taken precautions with my business, and thankfully in SC I can use Adultery as my final trump card! Ive got years of evidence and PI reports. *Cant wait to see her face if I have to use it all. *


Not to sound harsh, but why is this an "if". Sorry but in CT, the land of the sunshines and butterflies where noone can harm each other and if one spouse works 13 hours a day 6 days a week to support his family while the other stays home and bangs another guy for half the length of the marriage, and it means NOTHING....If I had the opportunity for a better settlement against my ex, I would've taken every opportunity for it. Not to be mean but because she used me for the whole marriage and frankly I shouldn't be paying her a dime after it's done. Her free ride should be over.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Chaparral said:


> This gets argued here every month or two. So far not one man has come to the conclusion waiting to expose was worth or worked at all. Up to now the betrayed spouse that doesn't jump on the affair partners with both feet, just seem to deflate and slink away sooner than later.
> 
> On the flip side, I can't remember any one being sorry they exposed. As a matter of fact, exposure seems to under cut the affair partners and takes the pompous wind out of their sails as everyone looks at them as they really are.
> 
> What many are recommending is that you don't stand up for yourself or your family but cant give any example of that working.
> 
> Its the equivalent of just handing over your wife to the om's harem and patting him on the back.
> 
> Go big or go home.


But that's because 90% of the time, the argument centers around a person trying to save their marriage, and in that case it's critical to exposure early and hard.

If you're 100% set that you're going to divorce, exposure is just another weapon in your arsenal and should be used at the most opportune time. It serves ZERO benefit to expose early. The Go Big or Go Home. Statement is irrelevant in this situation because you can GO BIG after the divorce is finalized. You can also use exposure as a bargaining chip DURING the divorce. 

What you're suggesting is the same as a person in chess ALWAYS trying to checkmate using the "Scholar's Mate" (4 moves). It just doesn't work in every situation.

If the OP is REMOTELY considering R...then expose now. If D is 100%, expose when it's the most opportune.


----------



## Chaparral

Dad&Hubby said:


> But that's because 90% of the time, the argument centers around a person trying to save their marriage, and in that case it's critical to exposure early and hard.
> 
> If you're 100% set that you're going to divorce, exposure is just another weapon in your arsenal and should be used at the most opportune time. It serves ZERO benefit to expose early. The Go Big or Go Home. Statement is irrelevant in this situation because you can GO BIG after the divorce is finalized. You can also use exposure as a bargaining chip DURING the divorce.
> 
> What you're suggesting is the same as a person in chess ALWAYS trying to checkmate using the "Scholar's Mate" (4 moves). It just doesn't work in every situation.
> 
> If the OP is REMOTELY considering R...then expose now. If D is 100%, expose when it's the most opportune.


What you say seems to be very true. What I have actually seen here, hoever, is that the guys that follow the play nice till the divorce is over, end up looking/sounding like whipped dogs slinking away.

Maybe that's what inevitably follows for the type of person that chooses not to make waves in the beginning and this is just a natural result of a particular personality type. Maybe a guy that breathes hell fire in the first place would not be in that position in the first place.

It all just seems so weak and beta to me to the point of being incomprehensible. I know I am probably wrong but when I found out my wife was cheating with her boss, the first thing I would do is rearrange his face and THEN file for divorce. Adultery, before it became an epidemic, used to be dangerous.


----------



## livinfree

Will_Kane said:


> When there is infidelity, it seems like most of the time it gets nasty anyway, even if the betrayed tries to keep it civil and doesn't expose. It has a way of blowing up.
> 
> Cheater doesn't want divorce, she wants you and him. She doesn't want to be known as a cheater, so as soon as she knows that you know, she may start demonizing you to all others to justify her cheating. She may already be doing so to justify it to herself or as a preparation for divorcing you. Hard to stay civil under those circumstances.
> 
> If you want to keep it civil, don't tell her you know she's cheating. Just tell her you want out, it's not working out for you, you just grew apart, you're going in different directions, you no longer have anything in common, there's no spark between you anymore, you don't feel a "love connection" like you used to, you haven't been happy for a long time, you feel like only roommates, you just don't feel any passion anymore, you think that you both would be better off apart, you can always remain friends and co-parent the kids, and you've decided to seek divorce. You can still out her to other man's wife anonymously as a work colleague so your wife won't know it was you. You can tell her you knew about the cheating AFTER the divorce is finalized, at which time you can tell her how bad you played her to get a favorable settlement if you want to.


Agreed.

In my case, I exposed pre filing for divorce and it had blowback in terms of my ex painting me to her family as a crazed jilted husband who couldn't move on, they circled the wagons and now have very little interaction with my son.

Doing it all over I would have changed the order to this:

- Document and evidence gather
- File
- Divorce

Not expose or put OM on cheaterville

I would have done the above during the peak if her EA where she would be most agreeable and fast tracked the divorce.

My ex was checked out long ago and the push for exposure and cheaterville wasn't necessary; in hindsight I would have gone overboard alpha. There are times now the urging to expose and cheaterville seemed more to entertain TAM lurkers than to serve a positive purpose.

You can always R after divorce.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Hardtohandle said:


> I mean it seems you guys weren't happy way before this from what your posting.
> 
> If you guys disconnected long ago can you blame her for having an affair?


Yes, I do blame her. We were never the same after her first EA 6 years ago. So no, the marriage was far from perfect but maybe if she put half the effort into fixing it as she does now sneaking around behind my back then maybe I would not have to divorce her.

If she was SO unhappy with me why didn't she just do the honorable thing and leave me? Then she could have f***ed whomever she wanted and I could of cared less. Instead for the last six months she has been betraying our vows, lying to my face and making me feel guilty for even questioning her. 

I didn't force her to become a cheating $lut. She did that all by herself. All I'm trying to do is get away from this disgusting person as cleanly as possible.


----------



## BetrayedDad

zookeeper said:


> Use her fantasy of being with the OM to your advantage. Once her affair fails and she has to come backmtomreality, she won't be too happy. Take a guess who she will focus that discontent on?


My only hope is that there really is karma in this world and the OM will drop her like a hot potato once the fantasy is over. Sooner or later hotel rooms and f***ing in the parking lot after work is going to get old and then reality will set in. She's banging him to satisfy his needs and he's telling her all this lovey dovey garbage to give her the attention she's looking for. 

It's so pathetic....


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Yes, I do blame her. We were never the same after her first EA 6 years ago. So no, the marriage was far from perfect but maybe if she put half the effort into fixing it as she does now sneaking around behind my back then maybe I would not have to divorce her.
> 
> If she was SO unhappy with me why didn't she just do the honorable thing and leave me? Then she could have f***ed whomever she wanted and I could of cared less. Instead for the last six months she has been betraying our vows, lying to my face and making me feel guilty for even questioning her.
> 
> I didn't force her to become a cheating $lut. She did that all by herself. All I'm trying to do is get away from this disgusting person as cleanly as possible.


You are in my opinion doing the right thing making the best of a bad situation kind of sad. The morning of the day she will be served explain to her family and yours why you are unfortunately doing this and how this was the last resort. So she had an ea before and you gave her a second chance. Sometime down the road she is really going to regret this.


----------



## OldWolf57

BD, it's guys like you that keeps me from sticking around longer.

CLUE !!! your kids are gong to have problems in LIFE no matter if they have a stable home.

That's just life.

YOU are the classic nice guy worrier.
Dude, just stop trying to control every lil dot an comma.

In other words, blow !!!


----------



## zookeeper

BetrayedDad said:


> My only hope is that there really is karma in this world and the OM will drop her like a hot potato once the fantasy is over. Sooner or later hotel rooms and f***ing in the parking lot after work is going to get old and then reality will set in. She's banging him to satisfy his needs and he's telling her all this lovey dovey garbage to give her the attention she's looking for.
> 
> It's so pathetic....


You've got a pretty good chance. Many times, the OM loses interest once the woman becomes available. He probably wants to stay married, so when your wife becomes free and wants to advance the relationship he'll run like a thoroughbed. Or, he'll leave his wife, they'll shack up and one will end up cheating on the other once the excitement wears off. People with little integrity and poor character are usually the architects of their own downfall.


----------



## GTdad

zookeeper said:


> Haven't read all the responses, but this one is spot on. Use her fantasy of being with the OM to your advantage. Once her affair fails and she has to come backmtomreality, she won't be too happy. Take a guess who she will focus that discontent on?
> 
> Move this thing along as quickly as possible. Expose him to his wife after the divorce is final. A good friend of mine went through something similar last year. When his wife gave him trouble about anything in the divorce, he threatened to expose the OM to the hospital (OM is a doctor) and his wife would immediately concede to protect the man she thought she was gong to end up with. The divorce went through smoothly, quickly and without lawyers. Naturally, the OM lost interest in her once she actually became available. She then exposed the Dr. to his wife and hilarity ensued.


Exactly. I'm not anti-exposure at all, but I do think it's a highly-valuable card that needs to be played smartly, particularly, as others have pointed out, as leverage to get a better deal.

And that's what we're talking about here: a business deal, probably the most important deal you'll ever make in your life. It should be approached with all the calm, canny, and yeah, cunning, that a deal of this magnitude deserves.


----------



## harrybrown

I feel for you. The EA before, did you expose the EA to her family or did she rugsweep? I am wondering what kind of wife would withhold sex from you for so long and be in fantasyland with her boss. What does she tell you why she will not have sex with you? I would listen to your attorney for now. Your wife does not respect you at all. I would stand up to here and give her the speedy divorce. Someday your future will be better.


----------



## BetrayedDad

harrybrown said:


> I feel for you. The EA before, did you expose the EA to her family or did she rugsweep? I am wondering what kind of wife would withhold sex from you for so long and be in fantasyland with her boss. What does she tell you why she will not have sex with you? I would listen to your attorney for now. Your wife does not respect you at all. I would stand up to here and give her the speedy divorce. Someday your future will be better.


We rug swept it.. I blamed myself and believed it was because I was not attentive enough. In hindsight, I was a fool for believing her.

She tells me she, "doesn't want to lie to herself" when she wouldn't sleep with me because our relationship was rocky. I should of known it was cause she was getting it from elsewhere. ANOTHER red flag I blindly ignored. Come to find out it was because she promised the OM she wouldn't! (Like that's probably stopping him from banging both his wife and her.)

I know now my wife is completely delusional. I just wonder is he's just stringing her along for sex or if he's completely delusional too. I'm inclined to believe he's just using her but wouldn't that be a really awkward situation at work afterwards after he ends it??? He's her boss after all and six months is a long time for a fling isn't it? Their plan also seems to be to keep this going for some time longer.


----------



## Thor

Visit Divorce Information for Men and Fathers | Cordell and Cordell | DadsDivorce.com for some additional viewpoints from your particular state.

You should listen to your lawyer, and at the same time realize he/she is not perfect. Use your gut feeling and some outside research to assure yourself your lawyer is on the right track. If you have confidence in your lawyer, follow his/her advice.

In my opinion, everything from this moment forward should be in concert with getting the best outcome for you according to your priorities. Period. Eventually I think you will want to have her out of your mind. Revenge might be satisfying but how does it compare to writing a big alimony check? You need to keep the big picture in mind. (And some people would willingly write a big check in return for nuking the wife's career).

Read the book Sun Tzu, The Art of War. The Art of War (History and Warfare): Sun Tzu, Ralph D. Sawyer: 9780813319513: Amazon.com: Books

In the midst of a discussion she might say she will falsely threaten to charge you with something (child sex abuse, wife beating, etc). That is your chance to say "Don't say things like that! You should assume I am recording everything you say". There are probably a million other circumstances where you can toss that out there. "You wouldn't object to me recording our conversations would you?". Be creative and get her consent recorded!

I agree even if you do not have her consent that if you record a false accusation it will be in your favor to have the recording. The police may in fact arrest her for making false charges!

The threat of exposure is not blackmail if you are not asking for anything you are not entitled to. Use the carrot and stick. Offer her a quick easy split so she can get on with her fantasy life, and threaten to demolish her fantasy if she is not reasonable in negotiations.

"My goal here is to quickly and as painlessly as possible get the divorce finalized for the benefit of our children and so that we can both move on with our lives. We can split the assets fairly and we can set up 50/50 custody. I don't want to waste money on lawyers, but if you are not willing to do this in good faith I will be forced to fight with everything I have, and that includes putting *everything* into the public record in court."

I am in the camp of not exposing at work or even to OMW. Use the threat of exposure as leverage. You do not want her out of work if you might be on the hook for alimony. But if alimony is not a factor, her being out of work could drain her of $ to pay for a lawyer, in which case exposure would be helpful to your strategy.

Then nuke her and OM when the settlement is final.


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## BetrayedDad

Thor said:


> "My goal here is to quickly and as painlessly as possible get the divorce finalized for the benefit of our children and so that we can both move on with our lives. We can split the assets fairly and we can set up 50/50 custody. I don't want to waste money on lawyers, but if you are not willing to do this in good faith I will be forced to fight with everything I have, and that includes putting *everything* into the public record in court."
> 
> I am in the camp of not exposing at work or even to OMW. Use the threat of exposure as leverage. You do not want her out of work if you might be on the hook for alimony. But if alimony is not a factor, her being out of work could drain her of $ to pay for a lawyer, in which case exposure would be helpful to your strategy.
> 
> Then nuke her and OM when the settlement is final.



This is going to be my strategy next week and I'm going to just hope that she plays ball...


----------



## ironman

I don't know what makes people think that being "nice" enough not to expose before confrontation is going to score him any brownie points in a settlement. Emotions will be running high regardless, and his "non-exposure gesture" will be the last thing she'll be thinking about post confrontation.

He might as well expose to the OM's wife and blow the fantasy out of the water. If the OM dumps his wife quickly (most likely), then Betrayed may actually be in a better position to negotiate if she is more wanting to reconcile (whether or not he is).


----------



## ironman

Well, I guess alimony would be the only reason not to ... if that's an issue for you.


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## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> This is going to be my strategy next week and I'm going to just hope that she plays ball...


Calm cool and dispassionate when dealing with her and prepare for the worst when fantasy island is ruined for her.


----------



## Dyokemm

BD,

I don't know how you have the strength to bury your anger my friend. More power to you.

If I ever found out that the reason I had been cut off by my SO is because she promised some POS not too, I would not be able to hold back from nuking the h**l out of both of them.

Money would not even be a consideration. I can always make more money.

But my pride and dignity? Could never get that back if I did not pay back the people who had wronged me.

But you have to walk your own path sir. 

Just reading that bit of info from you really pissed me off for your sake.


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## BetrayedDad

Dyokemm said:


> If I ever found out that the reason I had been cut off by my SO is because she promised some POS not too, I would not be able to hold back from nuking the h**l out of both of them.


I am 100% certain I WILL tell the OMW eventually. 

It's just a matter of when and as disappointing as it is to wait until after the settlement, it's the strongest card I have to get her to agree to a quick divorce. 

Now if she does something stupid like lawyer up then I'll nuke without hesitation...

My other concern is she will deny until I prove to her I know. I don't want to tell her how I found out but hopefully if I throw her a few crumbles, and mention a few details that I couldn't possibly know otherwise, she'll cave and confess. 

I'm not walking out of the MC without a confession...


----------



## Dyokemm

BD,

That's a great confrontation plan. Definitely try to keep your sources unknown if possible.

But I agree, make sure to get that confession.

Best wishes to you my friend.


----------



## Thorburn

Lawyers tend to be non-confrontational in matters of disclosure. They typically like things not to go messy and in regards to A's and D, when emotions take over, it is good to have an attorney walk you through the steps. Mine was great and warned me what to do and what not to do. I heeded most of his advice and some of the things I did was prior to meeting with him, which he stated were illegal, Like the VAR in my wife's car. He also told me not to worry about it.

In our state, exposing the A, does not help much in the final D, as we are no-fault, but infidelity is a factor in determining spousal support, which can be given during the time the D is filed till the time D is finalized. Typically spousal support is denied if infidelity is proven. As my attorney explained to me, we win the battle but lose the war, in that infidelity is a factor for spousal support, but will have little bearing in the outcome of alimoney in the final D decree.


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## RClawson

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It is a crock but it's also essentially what my lawyer told me when I investigated. She could legally take my kids anywhere and I couldn't stop her without a court order specifically preventing her from doing that. My wife was threatening to move the kids to Texas to live with her mother. Now, I don't think it would be difficult to get that court order but if she took the kids before I got the order then chances are good that I would be SOL. I would have to appeal to the other state to get my kids back but that is unlikely and I would have to pick up everything and move and then work things out.


That is all well and good but if you do your research you will find there are more attorney's specializing in Father's rights. I would suggest you join the movement. Equal is equal.


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## tom67

I have a feeling like in most cases you'll try to be civil but most likely you will have to go [email protected] to the wall scorched earth. Because of course it will be all your fault.


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## livinfree

My attorney was a female (a great suggestion from a friend who went through this) i filed first and drive the show. My attorney was extremely thorough and very good at offense.

Never underestimate the power of keeping a journal about you and your children's activities. The moment I produced a detailed journal to my attorney she called opposing counsel and we had a deal the same day after two months of squabbling.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BetrayedDad said:


> I am 100% certain I WILL tell the OMW eventually.
> 
> It's just a matter of when and as disappointing as it is to wait until after the settlement, it's the strongest card I have to get her to agree to a quick divorce.
> 
> Now if she does something stupid like lawyer up then I'll nuke without hesitation...
> 
> My other concern is she will deny until I prove to her I know. I don't want to tell her how I found out but hopefully if I throw her a few crumbles, and mention a few details that I couldn't possibly know otherwise, she'll cave and confess.
> 
> I'm not walking out of the MC without a confession...


Don't forget the VAR and don't forget to turn it on!


----------



## tom67

If you can scan all your proof onto a computer and transfer everything to a flash drive they are dirt cheap now. Maybe even 2 to be safe.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

tom67 said:


> If you can scan all your proof onto a computer and transfer everything to a flash drive they are dirt cheap now. Maybe even 2 to be safe.


Very good point. No telling how she will react. Might wanna stash certain valuables.


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## tom67

If your lawyer specifically told you point blank that you will have to pay a lot more if she loses her job then don't expose. But if the judge looks at her earning power and until recently was working, I think that has a big bearing that she wasn't along term sahm. Personally I would at least inform the omw when you file but that is a big decision and only yours.


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## tom67

Just do me a favor and read multiple threads where the bs gets screwed because they didn't expose. I say this with no disrespect they tell newbies in AA this. "You are not alone and you're not special" In other words don't think "Oh she won't do that to me?"


----------



## Chaparral

livinfree said:


> My attorney was a female (a great suggestion from a friend who went through this) i filed first and drive the show. My attorney was extremely thorough and very good at offense.
> 
> Never underestimate the power of keeping a journal about you and your children's activities. The moment I produced a detailed journal to my attorney she called opposing counsel and we had a deal the same day after two months of squabbling.


Keep a record of your wife's exploits also. Try and make your own timeline and the amt of time she has been away from her kids when she was playing with the posom.

Imho it is cruel to keep this info from the omw. You have to live with this call forever. Not telling her is also lying by omission.


----------



## Thor

Chaparral said:


> Imho it is cruel to keep this info from the omw. You have to live with this call forever. Not telling her is also lying by omission.


I agree. But, I think the OP has a higher duty to his own family than to OM/OMW's family. If it is to his benefit to hold off on exposure until the D is finalized then he would be within his moral rights imo to wait. If there is no downside to exposing today, he should do it today.


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## theroad

tom67 said:


> Eric is a perfect example of not exposing and still had to pay and the om gets promoted and moves away. That was sad!


Without exposing that the WW is banging the OM. The BH will get bent over by the WW in court.

And the OM will get away with everything.


----------



## theroad

harrybrown said:


> I would listen to my attorney and later take care of both of them with HR. How did you catch her?


Now is the time for exposure. Once the couple is divorced the Business is not going to care about what an XH has to say about his XW.


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## tom67

theroad said:


> Now is the time for exposure. Once the couple is divorced the Business is not going to care about what an XH has to say about his XW.


Your wife and om did this not you just remember.


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## BetrayedDad

theroad said:


> Now is the time for exposure. Once the couple is divorced the Business is not going to care about what an XH has to say about his XW.


Not necessarily... the boss is still banging a subordinate who he supervises, gives performance reviews to etc. I don't know many businesses that condone that. Plus if I expose now, I feel like it just exposes me to the risk of having to pay alimony to support her newfound joblessness.


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## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Not necessarily... the boss is still banging a subordinate who he supervises, gives performance reviews to etc. I don't know many businesses that condone that. Plus if I expose now, I feel like it just exposes me to the risk of having to pay alimony to support her newfound joblessness.


She hasn't been a sahm she has been working right? Judges consider this but I'll stop wasting my time good luck whatever I guess you're afraid sorry.


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## theroad

Exposure is not for revenge after the divorce. Exposure is a tool to kill an affair.

Revenge, and the being happy feeling that the BS gets from exposing the WS and the AP is a side effect, not the reason for exposure.

To expose after the divorce is pointless because there is no longer a marriage to save.


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## 3putt

theroad said:


> Exposure is not for revenge after the divorce. Exposure is a tool to kill an affair.
> 
> Revenge, and the being happy feeling that the BS gets from exposing the WS and the AP is a side effect, not the reason for exposure.
> 
> To expose after the divorce is pointless because there is no longer a marriage to save.


TheRoad, he has no intentions of saving his marriage. He wants out on the best terms possible for him as he's been down this road before.

I think I inadvertently hit the like button on a post that contradicts what I'm saying now, but I'm in the camp that he should play his cards pretty close to the vest until he has a signed agreement from her.....and hopefully before the gavel drops and papers are signed.

Then nuke the living fvck out of it.


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## Shaggy

Divorce is a negotiation.

Never negotiate with a person who feels confident and in control because they will feel they have the upper stronger hand, they have options, and they have time and power to drag things out.

Instead, what you want is someone that is desperate to settle, to get a deal and to move on, you want them unhappy, and frankly emotional , because emotional people rush and make mistakes.

This is why I favor nuclear exposure especially when it's at work.

Poor Eric went through all this same logic , even though I tried my best to persuade him otherwise. He didn't expose his wife or her boss that she was banging. No he's still paying through the nose, the ass boss got a nice big promotion, etc. he got left holding the bag while his cheating wife and her boss got away with it.

Edit to add:

Destroy the other army, then ask for surrender. It never works the other way around.


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## JCD

tom67 said:


> And if he has herpes like you said earlier you have to let the omw know this is a health risk to her let alone the right thing to do and you will feel so empowered after. Take care.


Exactly!

Are you willing to let the some innocent wife get herpes because you want to score a few extra dollars?

How much money would you take to be infected with herpes?


----------



## JCD

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It is a crock but it's also essentially what my lawyer told me when I investigated. She could legally take my kids anywhere and I couldn't stop her without a court order specifically preventing her from doing that. My wife was threatening to move the kids to Texas to live with her mother. Now, I don't think it would be difficult to get that court order but if she took the kids before I got the order then chances are good that I would be SOL. I would have to appeal to the other state to get my kids back but that is unlikely and I would have to pick up everything and move and then work things out.


All that tell me is to have the lawyer have such an injunction filed as soon as the divorce papers are filed.

This isn't rocket science. And if SHE violates a court injunction, SHE faces the penalties and takes an additional hit to her worthiness as a parent.


----------



## JCD

BetrayedDad said:


> I am 100% certain I WILL tell the OMW eventually.
> 
> It's just a matter of when and as disappointing as it is to wait until after the settlement, it's the strongest card I have to get her to agree to a quick divorce.
> 
> Now if she does something stupid like lawyer up then I'll nuke without hesitation...
> 
> My other concern is she will deny until I prove to her I know. I don't want to tell her how I found out but hopefully if I throw her a few crumbles, and mention a few details that I couldn't possibly know otherwise, she'll cave and confess.
> 
> I'm not walking out of the MC without a confession...


Blink blink. You SERIOUSLY think she isn't going to lawyer up?

REALLY?

Hypothetical situation:

You: "If you don't do exactly what I say, I'm going to expose the affair."

Her Version 1: "Expose away! It will break up his marriage and he can be with me."

Her Version 2: "So? I still don't love you and it won't change anything."

Her Version 3: "If you do, I'm going to go to a random state with a different name. I can pack our bags in 30 minutes. How fast can you get a judge and an injunction ready AND FIND ME?"

Her Version 4: "If you expose, then (incredibly embarrassing personal thing) will also be exposed."

Her Version 5: "So I'll get more of your money in the end if you do that. Do you WANT to shatter some innocent woman's life and make HER baby ALSO suffer the tribulations of divorce?"

I am pro exposure. Do not expose because you want a nicer slice of money. It won't happen. Don't expect she'll stay nice. Don't think you won't regret not exposing (and if you expose, don't think you won't regret doing THAT either).

Expose for your own reasons. You can't guess what she will do in any case. People are funny that way.

Good luck.


----------



## JCD

BetrayedDad said:


> Not necessarily... the boss is still banging a subordinate who he supervises, gives performance reviews to etc. I don't know many businesses that condone that. Plus if I expose now, I feel like it just exposes me to the risk of having to pay alimony to support her newfound joblessness.


How quaint. You think you won't be paying alimony regardless.


----------



## tom67

JCD said:


> Blink blink. You SERIOUSLY think she isn't going to lawyer up?
> 
> REALLY?
> 
> Hypothetical situation:
> 
> You: "If you don't do exactly what I say, I'm going to expose the affair."
> 
> Her Version 1: "Expose away! It will break up his marriage and he can be with me."
> 
> Her Version 2: "So? I still don't love you and it won't change anything."
> 
> Her Version 3: "If you do, I'm going to go to a random state with a different name. I can pack our bags in 30 minutes. How fast can you get a judge and an injunction ready AND FIND ME?"
> 
> Her Version 4: "If you expose, then (incredibly embarrassing personal thing) will also be exposed."
> 
> Her Version 5: "So I'll get more of your money in the end if you do that. Do you WANT to shatter some innocent woman's life and make HER baby ALSO suffer the tribulations of divorce?"
> 
> I am pro exposure. Do not expose because you want a nicer slice of money. It won't happen. Don't expect she'll stay nice. Don't think you won't regret not exposing (and if you expose, don't think you won't regret doing THAT either).
> 
> Expose for your own reasons. You can't guess what she will do in any case. People are funny that way.
> 
> Good luck.


:iagree:Sorry it is what it is.


----------



## the guy

From were I'm sitting your confrontation during MC has no quarentees, and you just might come out of this next session like Jack Nicholson in the end of the movie "One Flow Over The Coo Nest!

My thinking is you have an expectation that may just not happen. In fact, at the end of the day you know she is screwing around and she knows you know she is screwing around.....

You just might have to walk out of the session with the simble thought that you will no longer share your wife.

IDK..but I have a feeling you could walk in on WW and OM going at it and your old lady would tell you "its not what it seems" and deny until her dying days....I could be wrong.


----------



## JCD

I don't understand the significance of waiting until MC and PAYING someone else to be there to tell your wife something you already know. Did you need a third party witness? What if she denies it? Now your counselor will want to work through the evidence and 'issues' to come get to a way through this.

However...it will also make your wife behave herself, so I suppose that's not a bad way. It seems a fancy restaurant would be cheaper and just as safe, particularly if you arrange for you both to get there in two different cars.

Heck, do it at lunch so she goes to her paramour an absolute wreck in the afternoon. Let him feel the chill winds against his neck.

But waiting waiting waiting...gives her time for damage control.


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## BetrayedDad

I just want to clear up a few points...

1) I'm not concerned about money as much as I am custody of the kids. It's the only reason I'm being cautious. I don't want a fight on 50/50 custody and she could leave with the kids anytime $hit hits the fan and I can't do a damn thing to stop her until court.

2) From what I have gathered based on my intel, they seem content to continue this affair behind our backs for at least the rest of the year, perhaps longer (Though they "claim" to be getting impatient). OMW just had a baby so that's his excuse. My father died a month ago and I guess it would be bad timing to dump me (like she's doing me a favor) so that's hers. 

3) At the end of the day, I think my wife is delusional enough to believe this fantasy is real. My gut tells me this guy is playing her but who knows. All I know is if he is not ready to leave the new born baby then that's leverage I can use. After six months of this going on, what difference does it make if I blow it up now or a few months later? She will try to protect him and I can use that to get her to cooperate. I don't mean to sound cold and the OMW will find out but my kids come first.


----------



## Chaparral

Where did you get the info your wife can leave and take your kids. It doesn't sound like you have talked to a lawyer.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BetrayedDad said:


> The lawyer also told me if I piss her off and she decides to leave with the kids then 9 times out of 10 I can't stop her. She's the mother and is considered the nurturing parent so I'd have to file an emergency injuction and it will get ugly fast. That's her only play so it's a cold war standoff in my mind.


----------



## Chaparral

You need a new lawyer. There hasn't been one case here that I remember where a spouse was even allowed to leave the counyty withthe kids. File now, you are just shooting yourself in the foot being coy, waiting, accepting the situation.


----------



## Chaparral

Read the threads here. The men that are tough, jump on this crap withboth feet come out fine. The guys that hesitate, procrastinate , wring their hands, try to be nice, deny, beg , plead, look backward, all get their asses handed to them.

The first thing is to expose and knock both their silly asses off the limb.

You really think a man with a new baby and another small kid is going to give up his life for a cheating woman no one can trust.

You are either going to throw punches or take them on the chin and lose everything. We see your plan here over and over here, show me when it has worked.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chaparral said:


> You really think a man with a new baby is going to give up his life for a cheating woman no one can trust.


I really appreciate what your saying, I do. I understand your advise. If I was 100% certain the OM would stay with the OMW, I'd nuke them right now. I'm not trying to save this marriage. Any person who would do this someone is the lowest form of scum in my book. I would NEVER trust her again.

And it's not like I can read this guys mind. As unlikely as it is, maybe he will just leave her in which case exposure will just have sped up the inevitable and burn any leverage I have. Further, now that the wife is pissed off because I have shattered the fantasy, what stops her from getting revenge and using the child custody as a tool to do so?

Nuking is always on the table. Leverage isn't.


----------



## theroad

BetrayedDad said:


> I just want to clear up a few points...
> 
> 1) I'm not concerned about money as much as I am custody of the kids. It's the only reason I'm being cautious. I don't want a fight on 50/50 custody and she could leave with the kids anytime $hit hits the fan and I can't do a damn thing to stop her until court.


Lawyer up and the WW can't leave the state. If needed you can file for divorce and then have your lawyer stall.


----------



## Chaparral

BetrayedDad said:


> I really appreciate what your saying, I do. I understand your advise. If I was 100% certain the OM would stay with the OMW, I'd nuke them right now. I'm not trying to save this marriage. Any person who would do this someone is the lowest form of scum in my book. I would NEVER trust her again.
> 
> And it's not like I can read this guys mind. As unlikely as it is, maybe he will just leave her in which case exposure will just have sped up the inevitable and burn any leverage I have. Further, now that the wife is pissed off because I have shattered the fantasy, what stops her from getting revenge and using the child custody as a tool to do so?
> 
> Nuking is always on the table. Leverage isn't.


Your wife doesn't get to decide who gets the kids, a judge does. Its not like it used to be in most states.

If he wanted your wife he would already have left. He's playing her like a broke fiddle.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Chaparral said:


> Read the threads here. The men that are tough, jump on this crap withboth feet come out fine. The guys that hesitate, procrastinate , wring their hands, try to be nice, deny, beg , plead, look backward, all get their asses handed to them.
> 
> The first thing is to expose and knock both their silly asses off the limb.
> 
> You really think a man with a new baby and another small kid is going to give up his life for a cheating woman no one can trust.
> 
> You are either going to throw punches or take them on the chin and lose everything. We see your plan here over and over here, show me when it has worked.


Man aint that the truth!!! Agreed!!!!!!


----------



## Nucking Futs

You definitely need another lawyer. There's absolutely no reason he shouldn't file the divorce and request an injunction to prevent her taking the kids at the same time. 

The lawyer you have doesn't have your best interests in mind, he's just looking to do it the easiest way possible. He wants you to pay him to fill out the forms, nothing more.

Get someone that will fight for you.


----------



## JCD

BetrayedDad said:


> I really appreciate what your saying, I do. I understand your advise. If I was 100% certain the OM would stay with the OMW, I'd nuke them right now. I'm not trying to save this marriage. Any person who would do this someone is the lowest form of scum in my book. I would NEVER trust her again.
> 
> And it's not like I can read this guys mind. As unlikely as it is, maybe he will just leave her in which case exposure will just have sped up the inevitable and burn any leverage I have. Further, now that the wife is pissed off because I have shattered the fantasy, what stops her from getting revenge and using the child custody as a tool to do so?
> 
> Nuking is always on the table. Leverage isn't.




Yeah, I've read that before. Too bad Carlton nuked his thread.

He got quite annoying in how he had this magical wonderful leverage...how he just needed to drop his evidence and wifey would be bent over the barrel and have to take it.

Didn't work for him either.

One of the continuous posters on his thread, Chump Lady, had a husband. All he did was divorce law. She said the best leverage you can do is set up an appointment to depose POS and wifey. Maybe pick out a few more co-workers too. 

Don't even NEED to depose. Suddenly, the wet stinky towel of reality will smack them in the face. In one simple move, she is aware she can lose her husband, her reputation, AND her career. She does NOT want to go on record. HE does not want to go on record, and HE will be pressuring her to get you to shut the hell up by doing anything possible to make you happy and go away.

THAT is leverage.


----------



## tom67

JCD said:


> Yeah, I've read that before. Too bad Carlton nuked his thread.
> 
> He got quite annoying in how he had this magical wonderful leverage...how he just needed to drop his evidence and wifey would be bent over the barrel and have to take it.
> 
> Didn't work for him either.
> 
> One of the continuous posters on his thread, Chump Lady, had a husband. All he did was divorce law. She said the best leverage you can do is set up an appointment to depose POS and wifey. Maybe pick out a few more co-workers too.
> 
> Don't even NEED to depose. Suddenly, the wet stinky towel of reality will smack them in the face. In one simple move, she is aware she can lose her husband, her reputation, AND her career. She does NOT want to go on record. HE does not want to go on record, and HE will be pressuring her to get you to shut the hell up by doing anything possible to make you happy and go away.
> 
> THAT is leverage.


Exactly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BD, You without a doubt need fresh legal opinions. What your lawyer is telling you sounds to me like advice from some dude in a bar who is a bit out out of touch and speaks in generalities from things he read in a tabloid in the 1980's. The idea that your wife can just walk away with the kids and there is not a damn thing you can do about it is quite frankly a crock of BS. Injunctions are filed every day to stop just that and they work. In divorce the judge will decide what is in the best interests of the KIDS, not your wife. 

Please do some research in your area and find out who are the top divorce attorneys. Then get a consultation from all of them. Most will be free Some may cost you but do it. Once you get a free consultation they will be barred from representing your wife. Then file for divorce with a injunction stating she cannot move from the area until custody has settled.


----------



## JCD

I am a little confused. You say your fear is that if you expose, he will dump his wife and take up with yours. If you divorce her, and you state you are, then that decision of what happens in her life afterwards isn't your business anymore.

And if she is in a rush to be with him, she will WANT to make the divorce as fast as possible.

Your reasoning seems a bit contradictory or I don't understand it.


----------



## Chaparral

Some states are no fault divorce states. Many are fault/ no fault and some are really harsh on cheaters. What state do you live in.

You can get a lot of info and links at dadsdivorce.com.

If you expose, be prepared for your wife to come crawling back wanting to reconcile. This happens a lot.


----------



## whowouldhavethought

Chaparral said:


> You need a new lawyer. There hasn't been one case here that I remember where a spouse was even allowed to leave the counyty withthe kids. File now, you are just shooting yourself in the foot being coy, waiting, accepting the situation.


The lawyer in me (not a divorce lawyer) agrees. Taking the kids out of the home is one thing, but taking them out of state is a big no no. On another website, a Illinois divorce lawyer went over child custody issues. According to him, the two worst possible things any estranged parent can do pre divorce to insure the other parent get custody is (1) make it difficult for the other parent to see the kids and (2) denigrate the other parent.

WWHT


----------



## whowouldhavethought

JCD said:


> One of the continuous posters on his thread, Chump Lady, had a husband. All he did was divorce law. She said the best leverage you can do is set up an appointment to depose POS and wifey. Maybe pick out a few more co-workers too.


A friend of mine was going through a battle royale in his divorce. He caved the minute his ex-wife filed notices to depose his close friends.

WWHT


----------



## Jasel

JCD said:


> Yeah, I've read that before. Too bad Carlton nuked his thread.
> 
> He got quite annoying in how he had this magical wonderful leverage...how he just needed to drop his evidence and wifey would be bent over the barrel and have to take it.
> 
> Didn't work for him either.


Ya reading Carlton's situation it went from :smthumbup: to :banghead: too quick. He had ALOT of evidence. Voice recordings of her verbally abusing him, the kids, and outright admitting that she would file false abuse allegations against him, he wrote down how much time she spent at home or with the kids which was minimal whenever she was actually at the house. I think he even had a babysitter who was willing to go to court and say his wife was irresponsible and at one time had even lost the kids for an hour. And he had even more evidence on top of all of that I believe. 

Then in the end he just decided to not use any of it, not tell his wife or her lawyer that he had all this evidence because he thought it would benefit him in the settlement to try to play nice. And he was still getting screwed even though he seemed unwilling to admit or realize it. I also think his lawyer sucked on top of that.


----------



## JCD

Jasel said:


> Ya reading Carlton's situation it went from :smthumbup: to :banghead: too quick. He had ALOT of evidence. Voice recordings of her verbally abusing him, the kids, and outright admitting that she would file false abuse allegations against him, he wrote down how much time she spent at home or with the kids which was minimal whenever she was actually at the house. I think he even had a babysitter who was willing to go to court and say his wife was irresponsible and at one time had even lost the kids for an hour. And he had even more evidence on top of all of that I believe.
> 
> Then in the end he just decided to not use any of it, not tell his wife or her lawyer that he had all this evidence because he thought it would benefit him in the settlement to try to play nice. And he was still getting screwed even though he seemed unwilling to admit or realize it. I also think his lawyer sucked on top of that.


Well...he had this HIGHLY recommended lawyer who charged $400 an hour. He instead went with the one who charged a buck twenty five.

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

And to give him credit, Carlton finally woke up and told all and sundry that he was a dumbass for not exposing early and hard. He felt emotionally cheated and abused by this whole thing.

Now...I think if he exposed, he'd have regrets too, but that's the point...there are few good choices here so it very much comes down to 'gut'.


----------



## LongWalk

BD, there is a lot of advice here that reflects different trends.

1) the general TAM hard line (expose and seek moral satisfaction). This is often ignored by the BS because of weakness. In such cases, the BS pays an even higher price to resolve the collapsed marriage. However, you are not vacillating over reconciliation of lost love. So, you do not fit the paralyzed BS paradigm.

2) There are several posts that urge exploitation of the WW's delusional believe in the affair's future. The may work but only if the OM keeps the affair alive. There is no guarantee that this will happen. Once you file for divorce, the OM may dump her and she may try to renegotiate long before it becomes final.

There is no foolproof approach.

That said there seems no reason to seek a confession during MC if that is for psychological satisfaction. Will it make her pliant in divorce negotiations?

re: your lawyer
Sounds like a wuss who doesn't know the law that well.

re: Eric
I PM'd Eric and asked him to update his thread. It would be interesting to know how it worked out.

re: OMW
Doesn't she need to know? This is moral dilemma. You are seeking to maximize your outcome but denying her the same opportunity. Note she is very vulnerable. 

re: HR
Your wife might be able to file a suit against her employer for sexual harassment. Depends on how brassy she is. Her boss ought to get fired but she is not a certain victim. 

Life is not simple. The simple approaches sometimes work great. But you need to judge your chances.


----------



## Thor

Jasel said:


> Y
> Then in the end he just decided to not use any of it, not tell his wife or her lawyer that he had all this evidence because he thought it would benefit him in the settlement to try to play nice. And he was still getting screwed even though he seemed unwilling to admit or realize it. I also think his lawyer sucked on top of that.


Playing nice is different than playing strategically. NICE is stupid. Nice will get you walked all over. Stbxw's lawyer won't be Nice.

However, if, and it is an IF, stbxw fears exposure it can be used as leverage. But it must be done with strength. I don't call it blackmail because the OP has a right to a fair settlement and equal time with the kids. But the mentality is along the lines of blackmail, or a hardball negotiation. OP pushes for what he wants and he offers her something she wants in return. In this case what she may want is her fantasy, and if it is not exposed she may continue to delude herself the fantasy can happen.

For me, I would expect this strategy to be useful if she will give a quick fair settlement. If she is going to drag it out and fight for every last thing, there is no benefit to holding back the exposure. The judge will order a fair split of assets and joint custody (if the case supports it).

Sun Tzu would say to find a way to win before the battle begins, and better yet not have the battle. But if the battle happens he would say to crush the enemy.


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## Thor

BetrayedDad said:


> I
> My other concern is she will deny until I prove to her I know. I don't want to tell her how I found out but hopefully if I throw her a few crumbles, and mention a few details that I couldn't possibly know otherwise, she'll cave and confess.
> 
> I'm not walking out of the MC without a confession...


Ok, I totally understand the emotional reasoning behind this. But can you explain why it is important at this time to get a confession from her?

I lost track of it in this thread how you know for 100% sure she is cheating with him. Anyhow, if you know already, you know already. There is nothing to be gained in the way of certainty.


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## BetrayedDad

Thor said:


> Ok, I totally understand the emotional reasoning behind this. But can you explain why it is important at this time to get a confession from her?


Because if I don't get her to admit it then the leverage is useless. She will just think I'm bluffing by saying I know and think that I have no proof to go to the OMW with...

The evidence I have is airtight. The trick is to give her just enough without giving away where I got it.


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## LostViking

You need to get a better lawyer. I recommend a woman lawyer. They are better at divorce cases than male lawyers. The lady who handled my recent divorce did a smash up job and took care of me when my ex-wife's male lawyer was trying to gouge me for alimony. Your lawyer sounds like he's just out for a paycheck. Fire his sorry azz.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

BetrayedDad said:


> Because if I don't get her to admit it then the leverage is useless. She will just think I'm bluffing by saying I know and think that I have no proof to go to the OMW with...
> 
> The evidence I have is airtight. The trick is to give her just enough without giving away where I got it.


It is airtight without her admission or it isn't. Sounds like you are trying to get her to admit it in the sanctity of the counselors office because you have suspicions or circumstantial evidence and you want to record it.

BUT...you've said you want to do it this way and that you are playing the long term smart game.

Maybe you are. Maybe all the guys who thought the same thing, from the passive aggressive types who rationalized doing nothing to the guys who thought if they acted drama free, their SO ALSO had to act drama free, to the totally clueless were all wrong. None of them were as smart as you or your lawyer and had much worse evidence.

It's your choice.


----------



## Thor

Can you come up with an alternative believable story about how you got the data? For example, your friend Fred saw her and Joe going into the Motel 69 on February 7th. She doesn't have to know you had GPS on her car or you keylogged the computer, or whatever else it was that gave you the data. As long as she and Joe really were at that motel on that date she will know you have solid data.

The other thing you could do is just say a few specific words. The OM's name. A place or a date. Sex in the car in a particular parking lot. Enough that she will know you know, without giving away your source.


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## Dyokemm

File D papers first and an injunction on moving the kids at the same time.

Hand them to her when you confront. 

Use the threat of exposure to HR at their work for your leverage in resolving the D to get what you want.

And call the POS's BW before confronting. This scumbag will then be so busy desperately trying to save his own a** he won't be able to sit back and help support her from a comfortable and safe spot while you are ending your M. 

In fact, he will probably throw your W under the bus and she will end up getting simultaneously dumped by both of you.


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> I just want to clear up a few points...
> 
> 1) I'm not concerned about money as much as I am custody of the kids. It's the only reason I'm being cautious. I don't want a fight on 50/50 custody and she could leave with the kids anytime $hit hits the fan and I can't do a damn thing to stop her until court.
> 
> 2) From what I have gathered based on my intel, they seem content to continue this affair behind our backs for at least the rest of the year, perhaps longer (Though they "claim" to be getting impatient). OMW just had a baby so that's his excuse. My father died a month ago and I guess it would be bad timing to dump me (like she's doing me a favor) so that's hers.
> 
> 3) At the end of the day, I think my wife is delusional enough to believe this fantasy is real. My gut tells me this guy is playing her but who knows. All I know is if he is not ready to leave the new born baby then that's leverage I can use. After six months of this going on, what difference does it make if I blow it up now or a few months later? She will try to protect him and I can use that to get her to cooperate. I don't mean to sound cold and the OMW will find out but my kids come first.


this won't work. get a 2nd opinion...talk with a couple of other lawyers.

where are you from>?


----------



## Thorburn

warlock07 said:


> this won't work. get a 2nd opinion...talk with a couple of other lawyers.
> 
> where are you from>?


The best advice I got from TAM on D was this. Research all you can about D in your state. Talk to several attorneys, many will give you the first hour free, I did, and I basically got all the information I needed before I met with my attorney. When I finally met with my attorney, he laid everything out, most of it I knew, and then he informed me of what I could do that I was not aware of being able to do. 

That empowered me.  Things could have gone bad, but the bad was not as bad as I thought. I did not care about my assets. Call it stupid thinking or whatever, but all those things could be regained in the future. I still have that thinking. My two houses, retirement, etc. are just things and if I would ever decide on divorse, I know I will lose 1/2 of them, so why waste time fretting over that. For me alimoney was the main point. When I found out that alimoney is not forever and in fact is short term, I felt a lot of relief. My two boys are grown so custody was not an issue for me. 

It suc*s trying to navigate D. For me, I found that in the end the terms of D would have favored me and really would have ruined my wife. That is why after D-day, she started dating and looking for other men. THe XOM did not want to leave his family. My wife was even trying to make him jealous by telling him that there are other men wanting to hook up with her. His responce, "Are you going to hook up?" That was not the response she wanted. She knew she could not make it on her own. Her "friends" and family were hesitant to help her and once her lies were exposed all her "friends" are gone and most of her family as well. 

Don't under estimate the power of exposure. It eventually broke my wife and the XOM. At first I thought she had the upper hand. She didn't. She thought she was going to be taken care of by me in the D. But when the reality set in, her future looked bleak.

Find out what you can about custody law. If you can, find out who will judge your case. In my area I found out who the "Master" is. Unfortunately, I could have lost the case for spousal support, due to the personality of the "Master", if my wife would have put on a show, and then the law would have been thrown out the window. But spousal support would have only been a few months in my case. 

I agree with the posters who say forget about being nice. I would go for the jugular, but be very prudent and I would let the lawyer do the nasty stuff and it seems like your current one is not up to the task.


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## Thor

Thorburn said:


> I agree with the posters who say forget about being nice. I would go for the jugular, but be very prudent and I would let the lawyer do the nasty stuff


There is a big difference between being pathetically Nice and being strategically cooperative. Though I think it could be strategic to withhold exposure as a bargaining chip, I would not withhold exposure for the purpose of making her like me.

As to the lawyer doing the nasty stuff, yeah that is an important tool in negotiation. Keep the moral high ground and let the hired gun appear to be doing the dirty work.


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## BetrayedDad

Update: I exposed the affair. She was shocked and upset by it. We are going to file a joint petition for divorce this week. I haven't threated exposure yet because for the moment she is agreeing to favorable terms. I will expose after we file. She said she needs time to "work on herself and the kids" and is planning to put the affair on hold. However, she continues to text him and she sees him at work everyday. While she's upset she's losing the stability of the marriage and says she loves me, she doesn't seem quite ready or is unable to let go of the fantasy. I haven't 100% ruled out R yet but for the moment the divorce is still moving forward... 

She's not really leaving me any choice as much as I don't want to do it.


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## Hicks

she hasn't put the affiar on hold if she sees him and texts him.


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## tom67

The boss has a wife right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking

Do a hard 180. Let her see you moving on. Get in shape, start dressing nicer, start going out with friends and make her stay home with the kids. If a divorce and affair are what she wants then give it to her in spades. Once the D is filed then the brakes are off. Start flirting with women. Start dating other women. Why should you stay celibate and she get to run around with her OM? What's good for the goose....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown

She is not showing any remorse? Not trying to win you back or going no contact or quitting her job? Tell her she will regret this someday when she sees you with you new faithful wife.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: *I exposed the affair. *She was shocked and upset by it. We are going to file a joint petition for divorce this week. I haven't threated exposure yet because for the moment she is agreeing to favorable terms. *I will expose after we file.* She said she needs time to "work on herself and the kids" and is planning to put the affair on hold. However, she continues to text him and she sees him at work everyday. While she's upset she's losing the stability of the marriage and says she loves me, she doesn't seem quite ready or is unable to let go of the fantasy. I haven't 100% ruled out R yet but for the moment the divorce is still moving forward...
> 
> She's not really leaving me any choice as much as I don't want to do it.


You have lost me here. You exposed? To whom?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> You have lost me here. You exposed? To whom?


I told her I knew and told family and friends. The secret is out. I meant I will expose to the OMW soon enough.




LostViking said:


> Get in shape, start dressing nicer, start going out with friends and make her stay home with the kids.


Already started doing this. She asked me if I was interested in a girl. The irony...




tom67 said:


> The boss has a wife right?


Yes, she will be told soon. All I have is an address so ringing the doorbell is going to be so awkward...




harrybrown said:


> She is not showing any remorse? Not trying to win you back or going no contact or quitting her job?


She is showing some remorse but not enough in my opinion. She's a pretty stubborn person and does not like to show me her vulnerable side.


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## tom67

Tell the omw in person if you can just stick to the facts believe me it will be a big weight off your shoulders you can't control what she will do after.


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## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> She's a pretty stubborn person and does not like to show me her vulnerable side.


Then all she'll see is your backside as you walk away. She will come to regret this.


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## BetrayedDad

tom67 said:


> Tell the omw in person if you can just stick to the facts believe me it will be a big weight off your shoulders you can't control what she will do after.


Funny thing... After she told the POSOM that I knew, the POSOM is still not leaving his wife anytime soon. Just tells her "how helpless he feels". If I didn't know better, my gut is telling me she's disappointed by this and almosts wants me to tell the OMW so she will kick him out and they can be together. She's didn't say that but it's what my gut tells me.


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## LostViking

My experience is the harder a nut is to crack the bigger the explosion and mess. Your wife may be a tough nut, but when you expose to the OMW and her pretty little world comes crashing down, you can expect your wife to show you more of her vulnerable side than you ever wanted to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

BetrayedDad said:


> Funny thing... After she told the POSOM that I knew, the POSOM is still not leaving his wife anytime soon. Just tells her "how helpless he feels". If I didn't know better, my gut is telling me she's disappointed by this and almosts wants me to tell the OMW so she will kick him out and they can be together. She's didn't say that but it's what my gut tells me.


He won't leave his wife. And if she does kick him out he will resent your wife for causing him to lose his comfortable setup. He will turn on her and dump her like a bag of rocks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Funny thing... After she told the POSOM that I knew, the POSOM is still not leaving his wife anytime soon. Just tells her "how helpless he feels". If I didn't know better, my gut is telling me she's disappointed by this and almosts wants me to tell the OMW so she will kick him out and they can be together. She's didn't say that but it's what my gut tells me.


Well, I would tell her because if it was the other way around I think you would like to know. If his wife is a stay at home mom he will get hammered in a divorce so I think he will drop your w and try to salvage the m but who knows expose and let the chips fall wherever.


----------



## bbird1

Only advice I can give is this document everything. If you give her any money or buy anything for kids or her keep receipts. My friend did this and ended up with everything he wanted because she denied he did anything and he proved he did. In the end the judge agreed he was more truthful and basically gave him everything.

Document, prove and verify EVERYTHING.


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## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> He won't leave his wife. And if she does kick him out he will resent your wife for causing him to lose his comfortable setup. He will turn on her and dump her like a bag of rocks.


I really don't think he's leaving his wife either and would be shocked if he did. Also, I think part of my wife doubts it too (though I'm sure she wants to believe it). Him dumping her would be some small vindication for me...


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## tom67

Right after the d look into suing the company and maybe even her boss you might come out with some $$.


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## LostViking

BetrayedDad said:


> I really don't think he's leaving his wife either and would be shocked if he did. Also, I think part of my wife doubts it too (though I'm she she wants to believe it). Him dumping her would be some small vindication for me...


Well of course it would. But be prepared for her to have a huge breakdown and beg you not to go through with the D. 

I get the feeling she is calling your bluff and doesn't think you will go through with it. Up to this point she has considered you her plan B and expects you to welcome her back with open arms. If that time comes you need to be as emotionally detached from her as you can,because she wi use every technique to sway you that she knows. This is why you need to memorize the 180 lust and stick to it. You have to detach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> I get the feeling she is calling your bluff and doesn't think you will go through with it. Up to this point she has considered you her plan B and expects you to welcome her back with open arms. If that time comes you need to be as emotionally detached from her as you can,because she wi use every technique to sway you that she knows. This is why you need to memorize the 180 lust and stick to it. You have to detach.


I'm trying SO hard to detach. It's not like a light switch for me unfortunately. I still love the illusion of our marriage. You're right though. She thinks I'm weak and will try to manipulate me. She's already started calling bluffs and downplaying the affair... More lies that I know are facts but she doesn't know I know. The deceptive behavior is still there....

I don't think she is capable of being 100% honest with me.


----------



## workindad

At least you realize that you are in love with an illusion and you can see that she is clearly trying to manipulate you now. She has no love or respect for you. You can do better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking

Way better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

For what it's worth. I'm making her get an STD test too. She had unprotected sex with him because apparently he told her he "already got tested" so he's fine. Makes me sick...


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## harrybrown

Her actions are what you should watch, not her words. She is still lying to you, (trickle truth). Have her give you a timeline of the affair. Be strong, and when she is calling your bluff, let her see the results.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> For what it's worth. I'm making her get an STD test too. She had unprotected sex with him because apparently he told her he "already got tested" so he's fine. Makes me sick...


Good grief:slap:


----------



## BetrayedDad

harrybrown said:


> Have her give you a timeline of the affair. Be strong, and when she is calling your bluff, let her see the results.


I did and she denied oral, going on a trip with him and being at his house. ALL things I know happened...

She's become very comfortable lying to me. It's quite disturbing.


----------



## LostViking

Lying is what she is. And when this truth sets in and takes root it will make it that much easier to detach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bbird1

"If I was 100% certain the OM would stay with the OMW, I'd nuke them right now. "

He will stay or he will pay. Depose him immediately, after deposition file a third party sexual harrasment claim with HR in his company. Depose his wife and be sure to ask. "were you aware of a affair so and so had with his employee x? 

Stop being a door mat and do this right. NUKE and nuke now!


----------



## BK23

bbird1 said:


> "If I was 100% certain the OM would stay with the OMW, I'd nuke them right now. "
> 
> He will stay or he will pay. Depose him immediately, after deposition file a third party sexual harrasment claim with HR in his company. Depose his wife and be sure to ask. "were you aware of a affair so and so had with his employee x?
> 
> Stop being a door mat and do this right. NUKE and nuke now!


No such thing as a third party sexual harassment suit in this context. Though I would make it a precondition of any R that your wife file a sexual harassment claim against her boss.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BK23 said:


> No such thing as a third party sexual harassment suit in this context. Though I would make it a precondition of any R that your wife file a sexual harassment claim against her boss.


How is it sexual harassment if she WILLINGLY slept with him for 6 months?


----------



## BK23

BetrayedDad said:


> How is it sexual harassment if she WILLINGLY slept with him for 6 months?


She is his subordinate, maybe he leveraged his position of authority to force her into the affair....etc.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BK23 said:


> She is his subordinate, maybe he leveraged his position of authority to force her into the affair....etc.


I'm sure he still has the text messages between them that would prove it was consensual.

He didn't force anything and it's not worth paying a lawyer to fight a losing battle. I've already been screwed over enough...


----------



## BK23

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm sure he still has the text messages between them that would prove it was consensual.
> 
> He didn't force anything and it's not worth paying a lawyer to fight a losing battle. I've already been screwed over enough...


At least have her file a complaint with her company. That's free, shows contrition on her part, and has the added benefit of screwing over the OM.


----------



## LostViking

BK23 said:


> At least have her file a complaint with her company. That's free, shows contrition on her part, and has the added benefit of screwing over the OM.


Why? She doesn't want to reconcile. What is the purpose? Her goal is to protect her AP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> Her goal is to protect her AP.


Right and her own job too...


----------



## TDSC60

BK23 said:


> At least have her file a complaint with her company. That's free, shows contrition on her part, and has the added benefit of screwing over the OM.


Not her - she will never do it.

After the divorce BD should write a letter to Human Resources outlining the affair and citing it as the reason for the divorce. Mention a dollar amount that you have lost as a result of the affair. Include the evidence you have.

Make sure you include evidence that they used company resources to facilitate the affair (company email, phones, trips).

Most companies don't get involved unless it is this type of situation (boss/employee).

You do not have a sexual harassment suit. But claiming loss of a wife, family, future income, a home and stability as a result of the OM violating company policy could get you a settlement.

But again - after the divorce.


----------



## BK23

LostViking said:


> Why? She doesn't want to reconcile. What is the purpose? Her goal is to protect her AP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you look at my earlier post, I was positing this option as a pre-condition to any possible reconciliation.

I agree, that right now she wouldn't consider this, and it wouldn't be productive anyway.


----------



## workindad

Even if you do not get a settlement, what tdsc suggests will certainly get some unweaned attention in the workplace for your stbx and om. Do it after the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad

On a random side note....

Maybe it's a "guy thing" but the worst part about all this is knowing they had sex over the course of months. Thinking about their physical intimacy is what really turns my stomach. That she would reject me, to give him sex. Even in our own bed. Yes, the emotional aspect hurts too but the physical part is what keeps me awake at night....


----------



## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> On a random side note....
> 
> Maybe it's a "guy thing" but the worst part about all this is knowing they had sex over the course of months. Thinking about their physical intimacy is what really turns my stomach. That she would reject me, to give him sex. Even in our own bed. Yes, the emotional aspect hurts too but the physical part is what keeps me awake at night....


I hope you burned that bed. Nothing says I'm serious as a heart attack like 20 foot flames.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> On a random side note....
> 
> Maybe it's a "guy thing" but the worst part about all this is knowing they had sex over the course of months. Thinking about their physical intimacy is what really turns my stomach. That she would reject me, to give him sex. Even in our own bed. Yes, the emotional aspect hurts too but the physical part is what keeps me awake at night....


That's all the more reason to tell the pos's wife sooner rather than later.


----------



## BK23

workindad said:


> Even if you do not get a settlement, what tdsc suggests will certainly get some unweaned attention in the workplace for your stbx and om. Do it after the divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He has no cause of action. His wife possibly does. Her co-workers likely do. But the company has no legal obligation to its employees' spouses.


----------



## Will_Kane

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm sure he still has the text messages between them that would prove it was consensual.
> 
> He didn't force anything and it's not worth paying a lawyer to fight a losing battle. I've already been screwed over enough...


From what I can see, most cheaters delete these messages.

A sexual harassment lawsuit is something your wife would have to do.

You can sue anyone for just about anything. If it's completely ridiculous they'll just laugh at you, but sometimes a carefully worded letter stating that you are considering a lawsuit can get a desired result. Like others have posted, just the threat of being deposed sometimes can get you what you want. Keep this in mind. You are not in a position yet to even see what you want to do. You have to figure that out and then decide what direction you are going in, what you want, and then you will be able to decide which tools to use to get there.

Looking at the title of your thread (best way to divorce my wife), given that she had an emotional affair six years ago and now is in the midst of a physical affair, stopped having sex with you because she is so committed to the other man, still texts him even after you confronted her - why the heck are you still thinking about reconciliation?

She's just more trouble than she's worth. She's a skilled liar. How many other emotional and physical affairs do you think she's had or attempted to have since you've known her? 

What would be your reasoning if you gave her another chance? How could you be even halfway comfortable that she was being sincere, and not just stringing you along until it's a better time for her to divorce you?

I'm not trying to discourage reconciliation - if she wants to try - sincerely wants to try and demonstrates that to you through her actions - throwing other man under bus, coming clean to you, apologizing to you, changing jobs, doing what she can to help you heal, whether that be by exposing to other man's wife, getting him removed from the job, proving her loyalty to you - then I think you should try, if nothing else than for the sake of the kids. But you are not there yet.

How did you confront? You did not tell her all you know. How did you get her to confess to a physical affair?

In particular, the cessation of sex with you to save it all for the other man is a particularly bad sign. She easily could just keep having sex with you and just lie to the other man and say she isn't. But no, she actually did cut you off so she didn't have to lie to him. It shows that she is capable of being loyal. It also shows you her loyalty is with other man, not with you. If you ever were to take her back and give it a try, you should make sure she really is and will be loyal to you.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Will_Kane said:


> In particular, the cessation of sex with you to save it all for the other man is a particularly bad sign. She easily could just keep having sex with you and just lie to the other man and say she isn't. But no, she actually did cut you off so she didn't have to lie to him. It shows that she is capable of being loyal. It also shows you her loyalty is with other man, not with you.


That's especially painful to hear but I can't deny your logic. It would be impossible for me to ever trust her again. I'm having trouble letting go and I need a good slap in the face with that kind of reasoning to set me straight...


----------



## LostViking

She's trash. There. Another slap
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

BetrayedDad said:


> That's especially painful to hear but I can't deny your logic. It would be impossible for me to ever trust her again. I'm having trouble letting go and I need a good slap in the face with that kind of reasoning to set me straight...


She could realize that it all was just fantasy with other man, that he was just using her, see that you really love her, realize that she really loves you, re-commit to you, and be loyal to you. Realize the error of her ways and decide to fix herself and fix the marriage. She shows absolutely zero signs of that right now, but it is a possibility, however remote.

In a situation like yours, you have to make a decision. Fight for the marriage, or proceed with divorce. The actions you take for each often are diametrically opposed. To fight for the marriage, you would break up the affair, which probably means exposing at her job, and possibly means her losing her job. To proceed with divorce, you would want her employed so as to reduce the risk of paying alimony.

Personally, I would not fight for the marriage in a situation such as yours. I don't see any remorse from her, I don't see any love from her, and I don't see any desire from her to save the marriage.

Have you expressed to her that you would like to save the marriage, that you still love her? And if so, what was her response?


----------



## LongWalk

Will's advice bears consideration. You should act forcefully. The longer this drags on the less respect your wife will have for you in either D or R. Exposure to OMW can be anonymous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Have a woman go with you when you talk to the OMW, a sister for instance, that will make you more believable and sincere and less threatening when you talk to her.

And do at least a free consult with a lawyer on the boss issue - you might have more cause to sue than you currently think.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Will_Kane said:


> Personally, I would not fight for the marriage in a situation such as yours. I don't see any remorse from her, I don't see any love from her, and I don't see any desire from her to save the marriage.


After our fight we just had, you are absolutely right. She says she is but I can see clearly now she's not sorry.



Will_Kane said:


> Have you expressed to her that you would like to save the marriage, that you still love her? And if so, what was her response?


I have. She's not ready to do whatever it takes. She's still talking to the OM. She's playing games, telling each of us what we want to hear.


----------



## LostViking

She's getting off on two men wanting her. It's all about the drama... and feeding her voracious ego.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

BetrayedDad said:


> After our fight we just had, you are absolutely right. She says she is but I can see clearly now she's not sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> I have. She's not ready to do whatever it takes. She's still talking to the OM. She's playing games, telling each of us what we want to hear.


What does his wife say about that? The OMW usually knocks a little sense into everyone?


----------



## Dyokemm

I think you need to stop talking to her about saving the M and focus on getting the terms you want in the D.

Let her know in no uncertain terms that if she tires to screw you over in the D like she has screwed you over in the M, you will go to the company HR and totally destroy this POS.

He will get canned if it is revealed that he has been sleeping with one of his employees under his supervision.

And blow his life up by telling his W. Make him scramble to save his own a**.

I think he will throw your WW under the bus instantly since he doesn't seem too thrilled to leave now that she has been caught.

It should be a painful shock to your foolish WW, as she seems to believe this is true love.

Maybe then she will finally see what she has done to her life.


----------



## 3putt

Chaparral said:


> What does his wife say about that? The OMW usually knocks a little sense into everyone?


Yep, except..wait!

She doesn't know!

BD, you have the power in the palm of your hands to nuke the living sh!t out of this affair. I'll be damned if I can figure out what the hell you are waiting for. If it's for the right time, the right time is always now! If you really want a chance at recovering your marriage, then get off your ass and get to work, pal!


----------



## theroad

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: I exposed the affair. She was shocked and upset by it. We are going to file a joint petition for divorce this week. I haven't threated exposure yet because for the moment she is agreeing to favorable terms. I will expose after we file. She said she needs time to "work on herself and the kids" and is planning to put the affair on hold. However, she continues to text him and she sees him at work everyday. While she's upset she's losing the stability of the marriage and says she loves me, she doesn't seem quite ready or is unable to let go of the fantasy. I haven't 100% ruled out R yet but for the moment the divorce is still moving forward...
> 
> She's not really leaving me any choice as much as I don't want to do it.


Never threaten exposure. It never works and only give the WW and the OM time to plan on how to discredit the BH making exposure ineffective.

Also the affair is not on hold because there is still contact between the WW and OM.

This is why you never delay exposing once you have proof. WW knows that what you are saying is true so there is no need to prove it to her.

Last never ever reveal you sources. WW will then shut them down and then you will not be able to know what WW and the OM are up to.


----------



## the guy

For what its worth, at least you have a clear direction as far as were you need to take this.

I have a feeling she is pursuing the OM and the OM is getting tired of it...its just an assumtion, but the point is hurry up with the divorce and you start second guessing your self.

Cuz you will....especially as she struggles to get her Plan B (you) when her plan A falls apart.

Right now she still distant cuz she has another focus (OM) but once he is gone she will be all lovy dovy and start working you until the next OM comes around. Most likely give you the same crap she gave you when she was trying to save the marriage when the last affair happened. You know what I mean?

Something tells me that she will start her bull crap sooner then you think....i really think OM is trying to get away from her. So its just a matter of time.

And when that time does come and she wants to work it out the 1st words out of your mouth should be " lets go talk to OM wife"

In short, you guys' chance to R went out the window when she picked up her phone to call OM.

Anyway prepare your self for the bull crap that is soon to come again once she gets dumped.


----------



## the guy

Right now exposure...an effective exposure is off the table.

Now, exposure will only help the OMW see what a POS she has for a H.

The chance to save a marriage with infidelity, exposure has to be done before the confrontation.

In this case I think D is already set in motion...your old lady will continue to take a piece of your soul everytime she contact OM, everytime she goes to work and every time she comes home late.

It sucks cuz she has no consequences and has no reason to hide this from you. Its going to be a long road so work on your self.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm sure he still has the text messages between them that would prove it was consensual.
> 
> He didn't force anything and it's not worth paying a lawyer to fight a losing battle. I've already been screwed over enough...


BD, you are making legal assumptions that are incorrect. It does not matter if it was consensual. He is in a position of authority etc etc etc and much more. That fact alone will get the door open in any employment law firm for a free consultation. 

The lawyer may decide to take the case on a contingency basis, etc. etc ,etc, .

Bottom line you will not really know anything until you get a free consultation and ask. For your own sake please don't make any assumptions until a employment lawyer says so.


----------



## the guy

The next time she accuse you of having another girl inform her that your moral compass is all good....unlike hers. Tell her you have to get the bad taste of her betrayal out of your mouth before you can find a women that is trust worthy and believe you me there are women that aren't adultors. Tell once you get the stink of her aired out then you can find some one better.


----------



## alte Dame

I hope you will choose to do two things:

1. Tell the OMW immediately what a complete piece of sh!t she just presented a beautiful baby to.

2. File for divorce & mean it.

Neither of these things should be part of a strategy to keep your WW. The first is to give the OMW the information she needs to do the right thing for herself, and the second is for you to do the right thing for yourself.


----------



## 3putt

the guy said:


> Right now exposure...an effective exposure is off the table.
> 
> Now, exposure will only help the OMW see what a POS she has for a H.
> 
> *The chance to save a marriage with infidelity, exposure has to be done before the confrontation.*
> 
> In this case I think D is already set in motion...your old lady will continue to take a piece of your soul everytime she contact OM, everytime she goes to work and every time she comes home late.
> 
> It sucks cuz she has no consequences and has no reason to hide this from you. Its going to be a long road so work on your self.


Sorry, tg, but I have to disagree. Confrontation should come _before_ exposure to give the WS a chance to clean on their own. If not, then drop the exposure nuke.

I do agree with the continued contact though. And the best way to ensure NC is to get to the OMW...like, now!

Yeah, is does suck she has to suffer no consequences for her actions. But the OP has NO ONE to blame for this part of it but himself by not taking aggressive actions to kill the affair if he wants any chance at recovering his marriage.

BD, like I said previously, you have the power in your hands to put an end to this crap. It's up to you to utilize that power.

I know it's scary, but could it really be any more scary than being a divorced dad, alone, with a potential step-dad just waiting in the wings to help raise your kids and bed your wife?

What do you have to lose? This is where you are!

Think about it pal!


----------



## JCD

3putt said:


> Yep, except..wait!
> 
> She doesn't know!
> 
> BD, you have the power in the palm of your hands to nuke the living sh!t out of this affair. I'll be damned if I can figure out what the hell you are waiting for. If it's for the right time, the right time is always now! If you really want a chance at recovering your marriage, then get off your ass and get to work, pal!


He is waiting for maximum leverage. It's like Santa Claus, Unicorns and nymphomaniac 19 year old girls: mythic.


----------



## the guy

I always thought that expose before confrontation cuz it doesn't give the affair partner time for damage control?


----------



## 3putt

the guy said:


> I always thought that expose before confrontation cuz it doesn't give the affair partner time for damage control?


Nah, give them a chance to come clean on their own. It gives them a chance to do things the right way and blow the snot bubbles of true remorse......or perhaps not.

If not, then balls to the wall nuclear exposure.

JMO


----------



## 3putt

JCD said:


> He is waiting for maximum leverage. It's like Santa Claus, Unicorns and nymphomaniac 19 year old girls: mythic.


He doesn't need a video tape of the act for leverage. He has all the leverage he needs right now to kill this. Or to at least give the best shot at doing so. No guarantees.

It's just up to him to do it.

Again, there is NO way he could make it worse than what he has been doing (nothing) thus far.

No way.


----------



## the guy

I can imagine the OM is tell his wife that somecrazt women at work is going through a divorce and her husband is think shes sleeping with coworkers so if some guy calls you it most like this nut job accusing every guy in the company sleeping with her.

But then again OP has proof!

Thats why I think its get proof, expose and then confront. but I could be wrong after 3 years fo hanging out here. LOL


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## bunny23

I would look at state law and case history (or ask your lawyer)

If she loses her job you may need to pay alimony etc.

I would wait


----------



## tom67

Betrayed let the omw know now. This pos could have multiple stds and could give it to her.


----------



## 3putt

the guy said:


> I can imagine the OM is tell his wife that somecrazt women at work is going through a divorce and her husband is think shes sleeping with coworkers so if some guy calls you it most like this nut job accusing every guy in the company sleeping with her.
> 
> But then again OP has proof!
> 
> Thats why I think its get proof, expose and then confront. but I could be wrong after 3 years fo hanging out here. LOL


The problem is, he's already done the confrontation, and didn't get the desired result. At this point, he should have blown the doors off the barn and let the horses out.

I know he's scared. I've never done an exposure as my knowledge of all this was non-existent during my trials and tribulations, but I can certainly imagine what goes through a man's mind during this sh!t. Emasculation, embarrassment, etc., etc.

However, what he needs to understand is that there is no need for this embarrassment. He's done nothing wrong. She has.

He just needs to get to work if he wants to have any chance at saving this. What he's doing right now sure as sh!t ain't cutting it.

If she's so proud of her new found love, then she should have no problem that her _own soon to be ex-husband_ shouting out her good news to the world from a mountain top.

I mean, isn't this the confirmation and acceptance she's looking for? She's happy now....right?

BD?


----------



## LongWalk

Exposure is to OMW is full of uncertainty. What sort of person is she? BD doesn't know her. Maybe she'll clap a vise on her adulterous husband's testicles and screw it so tight, he'll dump BD's wife. She may then seek BD for reconciliation or push for divorce, fighting bitterly over custody and money.

If BD just wants a smooth and speedy divorce, there is no need to destroy the bliss of her adulterous relationship.

IMO letting the OM deal with an angry German Shepherd of a BW is a fun exercise. As to the danger of OMW's pushing him out the door to unite with BD's WW, well, if that is in the cards, is R really worth that much?


----------



## BetrayedDad

I have inrefutable proof of the affair. No amount of damage control from the OM is going to soften the blow. I don't know what kind of person the OMW is or whether there relationship is strained or blissful. She might kick him out or try to save the relationship. Even if OMW takes him back, my WW and OM still see each out at work everyday. It's impossible for them to have "no contact" and I can't ask her to quit unless I want to risk having to pay alimony.

The bottom line is the wife STILL has feelings for this guy, even though she acknowleged to me that he may not leave his wife (though I suspect she may believe OM will and is just telling me what I want to hear). I wouldn't even be surprised if she was maintaining contact with the OM just in case we feel apart (she's one of these women who can't be alone). Whether the OM's feelings are genuine or he was stringing her along I have no idea. 

I can't believe anything she says because she's a proven liar and so far all I have gotten from her is trickle truth. I'm still moving forward with the divorce for now and am having my attorney look at the paperwork today. WW wants me to wait but I will not. I'm not going to be played anymore and if she has feelings for another man (even though she says she still loves me) then there is nothing really to save. I'm not going to force her to be with me. Exposure at this point would be for the OMW's benefit. I doubt it would change anything since they work together. They can't avoid each other.

I also told her that sooner or later the OMW will find out and her face turned white as a ghost. Not a good sign.


----------



## LostViking

Just expose it to the OMW and be done with it. What happens after is not in your control. Let the chips fall where they may. 

You are doing well. Just keep pushing forward with the divorce. It sounds like you are beginning to detach emotionally. That is a good thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> Just expose it to the OMW and be done with it. What happens after is not in your control. Let the chips fall where they may.
> 
> You are doing well. Just keep pushing forward with the divorce. It sounds like you are beginning to detach emotionally. That is a good thing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You won't know if you don't expose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

A lot of talking from OP and nothing in action, She too may have felt the same.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BetrayedDad said:


> I have inrefutable proof of the affair. No amount of damage control from the OM is going to soften the blow. I don't know what kind of person the OMW is or whether there relationship is strained or blissful. She might kick him out or try to save the relationship. Even if OMW takes him back, my WW and OM still see each out at work everyday. It's impossible for them to have "no contact" and I can't ask her to quit unless I want to risk having to pay alimony.
> 
> The bottom line is the wife STILL has feelings for this guy, even though she acknowleged to me that he may not leave his wife (though I suspect she may believe OM will and is just telling me what I want to hear). I wouldn't even be surprised if she was maintaining contact with the OM just in case we feel apart (she's one of these women who can't be alone). Whether the OM's feelings are genuine or he was stringing her along I have no idea.
> 
> I can't believe anything she says because she's a proven liar and so far all I have gotten from her is trickle truth. I'm still moving forward with the divorce for now and am having my attorney look at the paperwork today. WW wants me to wait but I will not. I'm not going to be played anymore and if she has feelings for another man (even though she says she still loves me) then there is nothing really to save. I'm not going to force her to be with me. Exposure at this point would be for the OMW's benefit. I doubt it would change anything since they work together. They can't avoid each other.
> 
> I also told her that sooner or later the OMW will find out and her face turned white as a ghost. Not a good sign.


Th OWM really deserves to know ASAP. 

Good for you demanding NOT to be number two in your wife's life. She can go pound sand. Move on from her. In a while you will look back at her and you will see her for what she really is. Trust me, it aint gunna look pretty.


----------



## Chaparral

In hind sight exposure always seems to have been a better idea, proved over and over here.

Please ask your attorney what effect her quiting , losing , getting fired from her job would have on alimony. This point has been argued over and over here.


----------



## Kukuy

Chaparral said:


> In hind sight exposure always seems to have been a better idea, proved over and over here.
> 
> Please ask your attorney what effect her quiting , losing , getting fired from her job would have on alimony. This point has been argued over and over here.



it would not have a good one - If she is forced to quit to save teh relationship, then she will be entitled to spousal support!

what he needs to do is leave it be, consider things done and move on, if she decides to leave work out of her own desicion, then the judge is likely to deny the spousal support claim (if she brings one on) since she should be fully capable of working.


----------



## Thor

Exposure, as in any step taken, should be done with a purpose. What would the productive purpose be to expose now vs expose after the D is final?

I can see one or two possible advantages. One might be to rock her back on her heels in the divorce process. Take the wind out of her sails and keep her off balance. If the D process is quick in his location it might be a factor. Another advantage is if she is out of work and has no access to $ it could hamper her ability to pay her lawyer. She has the right to half their money right now, so being unemployed may not be a big deterrent to her legal fight.

The potential downside is that she becomes enraged and fights for every stupid little thing out of spite. She runs up the legal bills on both sides, or the OP gives in on everything, and thus the OP walks away with nothing at the end of the process.

I think from a strategic point it is probably in OP's interest to let his wife keep living in her fantasy world as long as possible. Get her to agree to as much as possible as fast as possible.

Asking his atty about the effect of her being unemployed is a smart thing to do. If she loses her job is there alimony to pay? If OP instigates the job loss is it a factor in alimony?

Exposure does signal strength, which is good. There are other ways to signal strength, and one should be sure not to signal weakness.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Thor said:


> I think from a strategic point it is probably in OP's interest to let his wife keep living in her fantasy world as long as possible. Get her to agree to as much as possible as fast as possible.


And right now she is giving me almost everything I want. She's not lawyering up and I'm running the divorce show. All exposure will do is add unnessasary risk. She still likes the POS knowing full well what a scumbag he is so how will it help me? Trust me, I want to blow it up badly and I will but at this point all it will do is cause chaos. 

She's not truely remorseful so there is no reason to save the marriage.  As much as I would of liked too...


----------



## LostViking

Then wait until after D to expose. But do it at some point b
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BetrayedDad said:


> And right now she is giving me almost everything I want. She's not lawyering up and I'm running the divorce show. All exposure will do is add unnessasary risk. She still likes the POS knowing full well what a scumbag he is so how will it help me? Trust me, I want to blow it up badly and I will but at this point all it will do is cause chaos.
> 
> She's not truely remorseful so there is no reason to save the marriage.  As much as I would of liked too...


Mark our words, she will lawyer up when financial reality hits her in the face. They always do.


----------



## LongWalk

Divorce with children does not happen overnight. A lot can change before the terms are settled. You can wait patiently but at some point some in-law or friend may advise her to talk to a lawyer and all of this nice good deal for you stuff may vanish.

Exposure now may make you life less pleasant but walking on eggshells for several months may be psychologically tough to take. And if it is all for nought, then what? You will feel like a chump. There is no perfect formula. You can read many other threads and that should give you perspective.


----------



## Chaparral

The wait on exposure crowd never show where this works. The folks that say they are going to expose later never do and regret not destroying the affair when they could have. 

Its just a constant deja vu over and over again. Same with the losing a job and then winning alimony. No one has shown where that makes a difference.


----------



## bunny23

I totally agree here... 

As for the mans wife, well as much as she could have an STD this is not OP's responsibility.

I tend to think most women go to the gyne and have testing done.I know I have- married or NOT.

OP should get tested and if there is something going on he can tell the health department.

As for being rash... well I married a long time ago to someone I knew very well. Come to find out he was lying about things- mostly financial issues. And made me live in a crappy (I mean horribly crappy) place with a bunch of guys who would have dealers dropping by.
I moved, filed... and spent 10 GRAND on a uncontested divorce. Had I waited I probably could have done this differently.

Now I'm in another bad issue where I am stuck my STBX is going crazy - locking me out, stealing savings, money, closing accounts etc etc writing me nasty messages, admitting to violence. Why? Because he is impulsive.

As much as my life sucks right now and I am really hanging on my a thread (no pun) eventually this is going to look really BAD for him. 

Don't waste your money on a NASTY divorce (custody is another matter which you should save your money for) split things fairly.

Then do what you need to do. If you have proof what difference does it make? Plus she will probably let her guard down thinking how "even headed" you are being about all of this.

You simply filing for divorce FIRST puts you in a psychological advantage.


----------



## bunny23

I totally agree here... 

As for the mans wife, well as much as she could have an STD this is not OP's responsibility.

I tend to think most women go to the gyne and have testing done.I know I have- married or NOT.

OP should get tested and if there is something going on he can tell the health department.

As for being rash... well I married a long time ago to someone I knew very well. Come to find out he was lying about things- mostly financial issues. And made me live in a crappy (I mean horribly crappy) place with a bunch of guys who would have dealers dropping by.
I moved, filed... and spent 10 GRAND on a uncontested divorce. Had I waited I probably could have done this differently.

Now I'm in another bad issue where I am stuck my STBX is going crazy - locking me out, stealing savings, money, closing accounts etc etc writing me nasty messages, admitting to violence. Why? Because he is impulsive.

As much as my life sucks right now and I am really hanging on my a thread (no pun) eventually this is going to look really BAD for him. 

Don't waste your money on a NASTY divorce (custody is another matter which you should save your money for) split things fairly.

Then do what you need to do. If you have proof what difference does it make? Plus she will probably let her guard down thinking how "even headed" you are being about all of this.

You simply filing for divorce FIRST puts you in a psychological advantage.


----------



## LongWalk

Eric did. But it could have gone wrong for him

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Thor

Chaparral said:


> The wait on exposure crowd never show where this works. The folks that say they are going to expose later never do and regret not destroying the affair when they could have.
> 
> Its just a constant deja vu over and over again. Same with the losing a job and then winning alimony. No one has shown where that makes a difference.



Mediators seem to think the strategy is a good one in terms of getting to a good and a quick settlement.

As to regretting not blowing up the affair, that is a different part of the issue than the D settlement. If the goal is to feel some sort of joy by blowing up the affair, go for it. But realize the consequence may be a more difficult D process and a less favorable settlement.

Alimony. In my state it is _permanent_ alimony after 20 years marriage. The court averages the 2 incomes and then spreads the wealth from the high earner to the low earner. It is to the benefit of the BS to keep the WS employed and earning as much as possible up to the final court date.

Health insurance costs and a few other living expenses are taken into account. So if the unemployed spouse is paying $1k per month on private health insurance, the BS is going to be footing that bill too.

From 10 t0 20 years it is a year-for-year alimony. Thus if one is married for 15 years, one pays alimony for 15 years. The same spread-the-wealth formula is used.

Simple example for a 25 year married couple: BS earns $80k. WS earns $50k. WS gets the house and $2k/mo mortgage payment. BS rents a $1k/mo apartment.

Both employed with health insurance --->>> BS pays $21k per year alimony to the WS for life.

WS fired --->>> WS has no income, $2k/mo mortgage, $1k/mo health insurance. BS pays $46k/year alimony _forever_. Note that both spouses are going to have to drastically downsize expenses. Yes the unemployed WW gets more $ than the working BH in this scenario!

WS fired, gets new lower paying part time job $30k/yr, no health benefit at work --->>> WS has mortgage + health insurance expenses exceeding income. BS pays $34k/yr alimony _forever_.

A judge may or may not consider earning potential for the unemployed BS, but in this economy the BS could make a good case for not being able to find work. If there are children, the judge may prefer the kids stay in the family house at the higher cost, which is not part of child support directly.


----------



## Thor

bunny23 said:


> Don't waste your money on a NASTY divorce (custody is another matter which you should save your money for) split things fairly.


Bunny, sorry you're here, hope you're doing ok.

There was a time period I would have literally given my wife everything except my personal belongings (guitars, guns, clothes, car). If the OP's W is in this kind of state of mind due to her affair fog, take full advantage of it!

I would be tempted to hustle the lawyers or mediators to get a document written up which says she gets half the $ in all the accounts and half the net value of the house. No alimony, no change in terms ever for any reason. Done. Sign here and she gets to go live the fantasy life.


----------



## Chaparral

Thor said:


> Mediators seem to think the strategy is a good one in terms of getting to a good and a quick settlement.
> 
> As to regretting not blowing up the affair, that is a different part of the issue than the D settlement. If the goal is to feel some sort of joy by blowing up the affair, go for it. But realize the consequence may be a more difficult D process and a less favorable settlement.
> 
> Alimony. In my state it is _permanent_ alimony after 20 years marriage. The court averages the 2 incomes and then spreads the wealth from the high earner to the low earner. It is to the benefit of the BS to keep the WS employed and earning as much as possible up to the final court date.
> 
> Health insurance costs and a few other living expenses are taken into account. So if the unemployed spouse is paying $1k per month on private health insurance, the BS is going to be footing that bill too.
> 
> From 10 t0 20 years it is a year-for-year alimony. Thus if one is married for 15 years, one pays alimony for 15 years. The same spread-the-wealth formula is used.
> 
> Simple example for a 25 year married couple: BS earns $80k. WS earns $50k. WS gets the house and $2k/mo mortgage payment. BS rents a $1k/mo apartment.
> 
> Both employed with health insurance --->>> BS pays $21k per year alimony to the WS for life.
> 
> WS fired --->>> WS has no income, $2k/mo mortgage, $1k/mo health insurance. BS pays $46k/year alimony _forever_. Note that both spouses are going to have to drastically downsize expenses. Yes the unemployed WW gets more $ than the working BH in this scenario!
> 
> WS fired, gets new lower paying part time job $30k/yr, no health benefit at work --->>> WS has mortgage + health insurance expenses exceeding income. BS pays $34k/yr alimony _forever_.
> 
> A judge may or may not consider earning potential for the unemployed BS, but in this economy the BS could make a good case for not being able to find work. If there are children, the judge may prefer the kids stay in the family house at the higher cost, which is not part of child support directly.


You are saying a person can quit their job or intentionally get fired and get paid higher alimony. That a judge can't/doesn't take that into consideration.


----------



## bfree

LongWalk said:


> Eric did. But it could have gone wrong for him
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Eric was fortunate in a few ways. First, his wife's AP moved away thereby removing a potential support system. Many times the cheating spouse turns to their AP for guidance and support. Take that away and they are often left twisting in the wind. Secondly, she was able to run back to her parents therefore she didn't need as much financial support. And third, she left on Dday and never came back. That way Eric was able to sell the house and completely move away from her and the toxic environment. Not only did it help him to navigate those troubled waters but it really solidified to his stbxw that it was over and done.


----------



## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> And right now she is giving me almost everything I want. She's not lawyering up and I'm running the divorce show. All exposure will do is add unnessasary risk. She still likes the POS knowing full well what a scumbag he is so how will it help me? Trust me, I want to blow it up badly and I will but at this point all it will do is cause chaos.
> 
> She's not truely remorseful so there is no reason to save the marriage.  As much as I would of liked too...


BD,

Of course she has feelings for him. They still see each other every day.

You need to decide what you want. If you want to try to save your marriage it is not going to happen so long as she is still working with her AP. And she will probably not show any remorse specifically because she is still in a fog. In order to break through that fog and work toward reconciliation you would need to nuke her affair and that includes her job. Only when she is totally separated from her AP and her work environment would her feelings for you begin to reassert themselves. Believe it or not, many couples have come back from such a situation to reconstruct their marriages and their lives.

If you decide that YOU don't want the marriage to continue then you are correct not to expose and take the chance that she loses her job. But looking for her to be remorseful and/or show contrition of any type is unrealistic. You cannot expect her to behave differently if the status quo remains.

Basically, you have to decide what you want and proceed accordingly. Walking the tightrope as you seem to be trying to do never really works out. Take a stand and don't waver.


----------



## Chaparral

The good news is you are getting rid of a lying, cheating wife.

The bad news is you have let the OM destroy your family. His punishment is he gets two women and struts around like the Big Rooster in the chicken yard.

The difference between men is that most would destroy his little happy harem and his livelihood if possible. Some folks are just too laid back.

How do you propose avoiding this same scenario in the future. We have many guys here that have gone through this many times and they never learn.

From your posts, it seems you still haven't read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. (its not about sex actually) Many Many men here have proven its usefulness Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


----------



## bfree

Chaparral said:


> The good news is you are getting rid of a lying, cheating wife.
> 
> The bad news is you have let the OM destroy your family. His punishment is he gets two women and struts around like the Big Rooster in the chicken yard.
> 
> The difference between men is that most would destroy his little happy harem and his livelihood if possible. Some folks are just too laid back.
> 
> How do you propose avoiding this same scenario in the future. We have many guys here that have gone through this many times and they never learn.
> 
> From your posts, it seems you still haven't read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. (its not about sex actually) Many Many men here have proven its usefulness Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


Athol Kay has a new book out too. It takes much of what is written in MMSL and applies it to life as well as sex and marriage. Between the two books you have everythig covered.

The Mindful Attraction Plan: Your Practical Roadmap to Creating the Life, Love and Success You Want: Athol Kay: 9781490451510: Amazon.com: Books

And for those ladies who were put off by Athol's first book his second one is much more female friendly.


----------



## Truthseeker1

bfree said:


> Athol Kay has a new book out too. It takes much of what is written in MMSL and applies it to life as well as sex and marriage. Between the two books you have everythig covered.
> 
> The Mindful Attraction Plan: Your Practical Roadmap to Creating the Life, Love and Success You Want: Athol Kay: 9781490451510: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> *And for those ladies who were put off by Athol's first book his second one is much more female friendly.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> He did write the first book for men...


----------



## bfree

Truthseeker1 said:


> bfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Athol Kay has a new book out too. It takes much of what is written in MMSL and applies it to life as well as sex and marriage. Between the two books you have everythig covered.
> 
> The Mindful Attraction Plan: Your Practical Roadmap to Creating the Life, Love and Success You Want: Athol Kay: 9781490451510: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> *And for those ladies who were put off by Athol's first book his second one is much more female friendly.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> He did write the first book for men...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes he did. And it was damned effective.
Click to expand...


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chaparral said:


> The good news is you are getting rid of a lying, cheating wife.
> 
> The bad news is you have let the OM destroy your family. His punishment is he gets two women and struts around like the Big Rooster in the chicken yard.
> 
> The difference between men is that most would destroy his little happy harem and his livelihood if possible. Some folks are just too laid back.


I'm fully aware he is laughing it up but that's short term. He's not going to leave his wife so time is on my side. I will knock on OMW's door and tell her everything. A few months is inconsequential if it means getting what I want out of this divorce for my kids and home.




Chaparral said:


> How do you propose avoiding this same scenario in the future.


I guess I am niave but my hope is I find another mate someday who has morals and isn't a liar and a cheat....


----------



## BetrayedDad

bfree said:


> BD,
> 
> Of course she has feelings for him. They still see each other every day.
> 
> You need to decide what you want. If you want to try to save your marriage it is not going to happen so long as she is still working with her AP. And she will probably not show any remorse specifically because she is still in a fog. In order to break through that fog and work toward reconciliation you would need to nuke her affair and that includes her job. Only when she is totally separated from her AP and her work environment would her feelings for you begin to reassert themselves. Believe it or not, many couples have come back from such a situation to reconstruct their marriages and their lives.
> 
> If you decide that YOU don't want the marriage to continue then you are correct not to expose and take the chance that she loses her job. But looking for her to be remorseful and/or show contrition of any type is unrealistic. You cannot expect her to behave differently if the status quo remains.
> 
> Basically, you have to decide what you want and proceed accordingly. Walking the tightrope as you seem to be trying to do never really works out. Take a stand and don't waver.



I hear what your saying but at the end of the day this guy is not going to leave his wife. If he did my WS would leave me to be with him (because she is in love with this fantasy, the guy is full of it and she was stupid to believe him). So while I believe she cares about me, essentially, I am plan B. She will be with me only if he rejects her and I can't be in a marriage where I was the second choice. Nor do I want to fight to be number two. After 12 years in a relationship I deserve better than the number 2 slot.


----------



## LostViking

BetrayedDad said:


> I hear what your saying but at the end of the day this guy is not going to leave his wife. If he did my WS would leave me to be with him (because she is in love with this fantasy, the guy is full of it and she was stupid to believe him). So while I believe she cares about me, essentially, I am plan B. She will be with me only if he rejects her and I can't be in a marriage where I was the second choice. Nor do I want to fight to be number two. After 12 years in a relationship I deserve better than the number 2 slot.


Good attitude. Keep it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

This guy will not leave his wife. You will divorce yours. As the D looms your WW will start putting more pressure on the OM, which will in turn cause him to pull back more. He may string her along for a few months, treating her as a mistress, but I think he will tire of the drama and dump her eventually. 

By that time you will have detached and will be seeing her with in unclouded vision in a her ugliness. You will have started a new life. You will be treating yourself as number one. Will have improved yourself in so many ways. Hopefully you'll also have met a new woman. 

The end game being that your WW ends up alone, wandering. That would be her reward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Best way to divorce my wife...*



LostViking said:


> This guy will not leave his wife. You will divorce yours. As the D looms your WW will start putting more pressure on the OM, which will in turn cause him to pull back more. He may string her along for a few months, treating her as a mistress, but I think he will tire of the drama and dump her eventually.
> 
> By that time you will have detached and will be seeing her with in unclouded vision in a her ugliness. You will have started a new life. You will be treating yourself as number one. Will have improved yourself in so many ways. Hopefully you'll also have met a new woman.
> 
> The end game being that your WW ends up alone, wandering. That would be her reward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This is most likely what will happen and why I said that BD needs to absolutely decide what HE wants and be unwavering in that decision. Because his wife is probably going to come crawling back at some point when the fantasy bubble bursts. He needs to be prepared for that. It's ok to mourn what you once had but when all is said and done that part of life is over. Even were reconciliation to take place the relationship is going to be different. So BD should not expose (yet) and get the best and quickest divorce possible. As for detaching, the 180 is great for that.


----------



## Thor

Chaparral said:


> You are saying a person can quit their job or intentionally get fired and get paid higher alimony. That a judge can't/doesn't take that into consideration.


I'm saying it is judge's discretion, which is high risk as a strategy. The cause of the loss of the job might be considered but not for sure. A judge should consider the earning potential of each person, but in the real world of this economy and the trend towards part time jobs with no health care one would argue that the pay/benefits of the old job is not realistic.

If both are employed the formula is simple. They equalize the lifestyle. Basically they figure each person should have the same $ left over after paying rent and health care. If there are kids at home the custodial parent gets the added costs of the family home credited.

The concept is no longer one of providing a cushion for a short while so that the lower earner can get back on her feet or get training for a better job.

Going back to court to get the alimony changed is very expensive and uncertain.

The impact on the higher earner is enormous, and it caps his future drastically. For every additional $1 earned, the take home after additional alimony and taxes is 20 cents.


----------



## livinfree

LostViking said:


> This guy will not leave his wife. You will divorce yours. As the D looms your WW will start putting more pressure on the OM, which will in turn cause him to pull back more. He may string her along for a few months, treating her as a mistress, but I think he will tire of the drama and dump her eventually.
> 
> By that time you will have detached and will be seeing her with in unclouded vision in a her ugliness. You will have started a new life. You will be treating yourself as number one. Will have improved yourself in so many ways. Hopefully you'll also have met a new woman.
> 
> The end game being that your WW ends up alone, wandering. That would be her reward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly what happened to me. There wasn't even an OMW it was a single dude.


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> This guy will not leave his wife. You will divorce yours. As the D looms your WW will start putting more pressure on the OM, which will in turn cause him to pull back more. He may string her along for a few months, treating her as a mistress, but I think he will tire of the drama and dump her eventually.
> 
> By that time you will have detached and will be seeing her with in unclouded vision in a her ugliness. You will have started a new life. You will be treating yourself as number one. Will have improved yourself in so many ways. Hopefully you'll also have met a new woman.
> 
> The end game being that your WW ends up alone, wandering. That would be her reward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:When she sees you moving on it may just wake her up but by then it will be too late.


----------



## harrybrown

Keep your distance from your lying wife. Start doing things for you. Get the divorce going, get some exercise and you take care of you. This will also help your children. Keep thinking about yourself, and keep respecting yourself.


----------



## Chaparral

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm fully aware he is laughing it up but that's short term. He's not going to leave his wife so time is on my side. I will knock on OMW's door and tell her everything. A few months is inconsequential if it means getting what I want out of this divorce for my kids and home.


If you follow through it might be a first here. Most just give up during the divorce.






> I guess I am niave but my hope is I find another mate someday who has morals and isn't a liar and a cheat....


That is NOT a plan. That is just shooting blind.


----------



## Dyokemm

Chaparral,

Sadly, I don't know if you are right about 'most men' being willing to smash the POS that f'd up their life.

When I first started searching infidelity websites looking for answers to why my family has such a horrible history of rugsweeping affairs, and how I was criticized for being 'unforgiving' when I booted my ex gf, I finally settled on TAM because most of the posters here were far more blunt and forceful in dealing with this crap.

Yes there are some posters here that do not support 'hardline' tactics like full exposure or making the POS AP suffer consequences.

But I can tell you, some of the other sites I read through were almost rigidly dedicated to the 'nice guy' approach in dealing with this.

Sadly, I think I have read far more threads on these websites of men afraid to fight for their self-respect than those who will take a harsh line and make sure both AP's suffer some real consequences for messing with their lives.

It's almost as if people today are afraid as h**l to stand up for themselves.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chaparral said:


> If you follow through it might be a first here. Most just give up during the divorce.


I'm going to do it period. I already asked some people I trust to come with me in case OMW goes balistic. I have a plan, I know where he lives, it's going to go down when D's settled. He's going to be exposed. I'm just on the fence about blowing up HR because of the wife getting canned and lawyering up but I have ZERO reason not to expose to the OMW. I'm not going to "give up" or "forget about it".


----------



## Chaparral

Being a nice guy is why a lot of men get cheated on. Having said thst any kind of man can get cheated on. But men , as a rule do not mess with a woman whose husband they fear.

Btw I just googled infidelity statistics and one of the things I found was that around 80% of of married men are beta. Makes you wonder.


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

After your WW gets over the shock of being caught out, she will probably re-evaluate her position on what she wants in the D.

She will then lawyer up and her demands will change.

Be prepared and don't be shocked by this if/when it happens.

At that point, even if you hold off on HR so she doesn't get canned, immediately blast POS by exposing to his BW.

The ONLY reason I can see for not informing the BW yet is BECAUSE she is really giving you all you want.

If she changes that, then at least nuke POS's private life. Make him scramble to save his own a** so he can't help support and conspire with your WW as your D proceeds.


----------



## Kukuy

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> After your WW gets over the shock of being caught out, she will probably re-evaluate her position on what she wants in the D.
> 
> She will then lawyer up and *her demands will change.*
> 
> *Be prepared and don't be shocked by this if/when it happens*.
> 
> At that point, even if you hold off on HR so she doesn't get canned, immediately blast POS by exposing to his BW.
> 
> The ONLY reason I can see for not informing the BW yet is BECAUSE she is really giving you all you want.
> 
> If she changes that, then at least nuke POS's private life. Make him scramble to save his own a** so he can't help support and conspire with your WW as your D proceeds.


IT WILL HAPPEN!

Once she feels like you are threatening her and mr.Wonderful's new and shiny goals she will turn into this incoherent and unpredictable thing...

It happened to me but luckily she has been having her blowouts in court or with the amicus so as far as i go she can continue to be psycho all she wants! I have the invaluables living under my roof!


----------



## Squeakr

Chaparral said:


> Being a nice guy is why a lot of men get cheated on. Having said thst any kind of man can get cheated on. But men , as a rule do not mess with a woman whose husband they fear.
> 
> Btw I just googled infidelity statistics and one of the things I found was that around 80% of of married men are beta. Makes you wonder.


I wish both of these paragraphs were true. Being afraid of the H doesn't discourage men, it just makes them more careful, devious, and hidden. If the WW wants the A the mAP will do it no matter how scary the H, as the WW will let them know just how "wrong" their H is and in what ways, reassuring the OM into agreeing (which they wanted in the first place so it won't really take much). Lots of men are afraid of me and what I can do, as is my WW, but this didn't stop her from doing what she did repeatedly. I am not the largest guy, although quite large and strong), but have military special forces training and am generally armed wherever I go (it is my 2nd Amendment right so I excursive it) and none of this stopped her or them from doing what they want. They wouldn't come around me and do it, she had to travel to them (funny how distance makes one more ****sure and confident), just as the internet and phone also boost their confidence to say things they never would to my face (and I know this as one was a neighbor before he and his wife moved away).

As to the statistics, I can't believe any of them as they are always so one sided and very prominent. Rarely do you see them being 49% one way and 51% the other. They are generally gathered from a subject group and of those the answers are only as truthful as the respondents. Do you think that 80% of the BHs would characterize themselves as "Nice guys"? Probably not and the statistics were derived from the WS opinions of their BS.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Dyokemm said:


> The ONLY reason I can see for not informing the BW yet is BECAUSE she is really giving you all you want.
> 
> If she changes that, then at least nuke POS's private life. Make him scramble to save his own a** so he can't help support and conspire with your WW as your D proceeds.


Trust me it's the only reason. 

I will nuke POSOM immediately if things go south...


----------



## Chaparral

Thor said:


> I'm saying it is judge's discretion, which is high risk as a strategy. The cause of the loss of the job might be considered but not for sure. A judge should consider the earning potential of each person, but in the real world of this economy and the trend towards part time jobs with no health care one would argue that the pay/benefits of the old job is not realistic.
> 
> If both are employed the formula is simple. They equalize the lifestyle. Basically they figure each person should have the same $ left over after paying rent and health care. If there are kids at home the custodial parent gets the added costs of the family home credited.
> 
> The concept is no longer one of providing a cushion for a short while so that the lower earner can get back on her feet or get training for a better job.
> 
> Going back to court to get the alimony changed is very expensive and uncertain.
> 
> The impact on the higher earner is enormous, and it caps his future drastically. For every additional $1 earned, the take home after additional alimony and taxes is 20 cents.


Sorry for the length of this but evidently every state is different.

_In a divorce or legal separation proceeding in Kentucky, either spouse may ask the court to make a maintenance (alimony) order, either during the divorce to provide support for the transition, or after the divorce is final, to help the supported spouse move forward and become self-supporting.

If you request a maintenance order, a family law judge will examine the evidence you submit about your financial need and the reasons why you cannot support yourself right away. The rules about maintenance orders in Kentucky are fairly strict, and judges are not supposed to grant maintenance unless two things are true:
•the spouse seeking maintenance doesn't have sufficient resources to be self-supporting, even after the property division that is part of the divorce, and
•the spouse seeking maintenance is unable to be self-supporting or is responsible for caring for a child whose needs make it inappropriate for the parent to be employed outside the home.

Once the court determines that you are entitled to maintenance (and that the other spouse has the ability to pay), the judge looks at several factors to determine the amount of maintenance and the length of time you may receive maintenance, including:
•each spouse's financial resources
•the time necessary to complete training or education for the receiving spouse to find appropriate employment
•the age and physical health of the spouse seeking maintenance
•the standard of living during the marriage, and
•the length of the marriage.

A maintenance order is temporary while the divorce is pending; the court then makes a permanent order once the divorce is final. The permanent order can be short or long term depending on each spouse's circumstances and the length of the marriage. Maintenance is usually not meant to last indefinitely, and the court expects the supported spouse to become self-supporting as soon as possible.

If there is a significant change in circumstances that cause the current order to be unfair, either spouse may request a modification of the maintenance amount. The court will ask both spouses to provide updated financial and employment information at that time. Maintenance ends when both spouses agree, when either spouse dies, or when the receiving spouse remarries or lives with a partner._


----------



## Curious_Guy

BetrayedDad, I really do hope you get your way in this divorce. I can't believe she would sneak away with this guy and even have sex with him in your own house!
I hope she gets what she deserves and the kids get to stay with a loyal father like you!


----------



## Vanguard

If adultery were addressed today the way it was during the time of the Mosaic Covenant, there would be far less cases of infidelity. People who say we should be more civilized are overlooking a glaring contradiction- the inhumane barbarism of infidelity. Death seems a fitting ramification to me. We go soft on the immoral and look what happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Trust me it's the only reason.
> 
> I will nuke POSOM immediately if things go south...


Good
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Thor said:


> Mediators seem to think the strategy is a good one in terms of getting to a good and a quick settlement.
> 
> As to regretting not blowing up the affair, that is a different part of the issue than the D settlement. If the goal is to feel some sort of joy by blowing up the affair, go for it. But realize the consequence may be a more difficult D process and a less favorable settlement.
> 
> Alimony. In my state it is _permanent_ alimony after 20 years marriage. The court averages the 2 incomes and then spreads the wealth from the high earner to the low earner. It is to the benefit of the BS to keep the WS employed and earning as much as possible up to the final court date.
> 
> Health insurance costs and a few other living expenses are taken into account. So if the unemployed spouse is paying $1k per month on private health insurance, the BS is going to be footing that bill too.
> 
> From 10 t0 20 years it is a year-for-year alimony. Thus if one is married for 15 years, one pays alimony for 15 years. The same spread-the-wealth formula is used.
> 
> Simple example for a 25 year married couple: BS earns $80k. WS earns $50k. WS gets the house and $2k/mo mortgage payment. BS rents a $1k/mo apartment.
> 
> Both employed with health insurance --->>> BS pays $21k per year alimony to the WS for life.
> 
> WS fired --->>> WS has no income, $2k/mo mortgage, $1k/mo health insurance. BS pays $46k/year alimony _forever_. Note that both spouses are going to have to drastically downsize expenses. Yes the unemployed WW gets more $ than the working BH in this scenario!
> 
> WS fired, gets new lower paying part time job $30k/yr, no health benefit at work --->>> WS has mortgage + health insurance expenses exceeding income. BS pays $34k/yr alimony _forever_.
> 
> A judge may or may not consider earning potential for the unemployed BS, but in this economy the BS could make a good case for not being able to find work. If there are children, the judge may prefer the kids stay in the family house at the higher cost, which is not part of child support directly.


This illustrates why marriage is not a wise bet for men. When women reach parity in earning power the risk will be equal.


----------



## LongWalk

Vanguard said:


> If adultery were addressed today the way it was during the time of the Mosaic Covenant, there would be far less cases of infidelity. People who say we should be more civilized are overlooking a glaring contradiction- the inhumane barbarism of infidelity. Death seems a fitting ramification to me. We go soft on the immoral and look what happens.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Times have changed. Try to get fault divorce legislation passed. Won't fly.


----------



## krismimo

Just read your thread BD and I'm sorry you are here. I think you are going about it the right way. You have to do what is best for you and your situation. Just be cautious in case your wife wants to fight you back, just don't be surprised. And I completely agree with the sloppy seconds mentality, why on earth stay with someone when the only reason why she came back to you is because her other options were out. 

I wouldn't want to R with someone like that. And trust is key if you can't trust her, then don't even think about R. Because that trust and verify nonsense can be a pain in the a** (I did all that) and all it did was drive me nuts. 

Also BD please understand that there are people are here that are going to nit pick at everything you do and may not agree with all your choices but this is your battle. It's easy for someone to suggest something they haven't been through themselves or are not in your shoes in that current moment. And even if they have done it themselves it's your life not theirs. 

It's easy to say oh yeah expose now don't worry about the alimony part, but when it is all said and done your the one that have to pay those bills they don't. So in hindsight take the advice like a grain of salt, listen and think on what you want to do, and if your not sure about something ask. Or if it is a legal question ask the attorney.

The only thing I advise is yes do tell OMW but you do it when you are ready and when you want to do it. We can argue all day long the pros and cons of when to expose. Exposure can blow up in your face as well just because you expose it doesn't always mean it will work in your favor either (I have done that as well) and others on here as well. Be practical and most of all be smart. 

If you don't want to pay alimony then wait for the D and expose her but also only if she hasn't lost her s*** with you during the proceedings. Only expose if you want to and if you feel comfortable, you don't have to if you don't want to. It's your choice, if you decide all you want to do is tell the OMW and possibly HR in a email or anonymous letter. By all means, do so.
You do what is best for you and your kids, there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a quick and swift divorce if that is your goal. It's going to be difficult regardless. Best of luck to you BD. 

-Kris


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Best way to divorce my wife...*



LongWalk said:


> This illustrates why marriage is not a wise bet for men. When women reach parity in earning power the risk will be equal.


Unfortunately in many cases judges do not treat men the same as women regardless of earning power. There are times when men should have received spousal support but didn't just because they were men.


----------



## Augusto

Willowfin said:


> I would be slow to tell Company HR - What outcome are you hoping for - that he'd be fired? His wife just had a baby - why put her under financial pressure - let her report him to his employer if she wants to. If you're hoping that your W will lose her job - well won't that mean that it will cost you more in a settlement? Calm clear thinking is paramount. Good luck


Why....she is better off without him. New baby or not, Would you want your spouse to hold something so precious in their arms at the same time he/she is screwing someone else and lying about it?he dude made his bed and should learn to accept all of the pain he is causing and will cause.


----------



## Willowfin

Willowfin said:


> I would be slow to tell Company HR - What outcome are you hoping for - that he'd be fired? His wife just had a baby - why put her under financial pressure - let her report him to his employer if she wants to. If you're hoping that your W will lose her job - well won't that mean that it will cost you more in a settlement? Calm clear thinking is paramount. Good luck


Augusto - you obviously misread my quote. I suggested that he didn't expose affair to company HR - he can tell the BW sure - but leave it up to BW to expose him to HR if she wants. Don't think BW will thank OP for HR interference that's all. New baby, cheating husband AND loss of income?? Let her make that decision if she wants to.


----------



## tom67

Willowfin said:


> Augusto - you obviously misread my quote. I suggested that he didn't expose affair to company HR - he can tell the BW sure - but leave it up to BW to expose him to HR if she wants. Don't think BW will thank OP for HR interference that's all. New baby, cheating husband AND loss of income?? Let her make that decision if she wants to.


Good point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

Update: WS wants "time". Not sure if she wants to "work things out". Feels like she's being "rushed" into a decision by me filing for D. Needs to "think about things" and take care of "herself". Says she's getting "mixed signals" from me by filing for D then being so nice to her. 

Clearly she's still hung up on the POSOM.... 

What time does she want? She's had 6 months to think about it while she was cheating. All I want is for WS to show some genuine remorse for what she did. All she does is act like she's sorry for getting caught rather than for what she did. The D is happening but it would of been nice to see any kind of attempt to save the marriage rather than asking me for "time". Why? So you can wait around for POSOM to never leave his wife?

I'm convinced she's waiting for me to beg her to come back so she can pick up where she left of with him. Sorry ain't going to happen.

Sorry, just venting. Really SUCKS she's such a selfish POS herself...


----------



## warlock07

Why does she think the decision to reconcile is in her hands ? How is she so deluded ?

Tell her that the decision was already made for both of you and that yo are divorcing her lying, cheating ass.


----------



## LostAndContent

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: WS wants "time". Not sure if she wants to "work things out". Feels like she's being "rushed" into a decision by me filing for D. Needs to "think about things" and take care of "herself". Says she's getting "mixed signals" from me by filing for D then being so nice to her.
> 
> Clearly she's still hung up on the POSOM....
> 
> What time does she want? She's had 6 months to think about it while she was cheating. All I want is for WS to show some genuine remorse for what she did. All she does is act like she's sorry for getting caught rather than for what she did. The D is happening but it would of been nice to see any kind of attempt to save the marriage rather than asking me for "time". Why? So you can wait around for POSOM to never leave his wife?
> 
> I'm convinced she's waiting for me to beg her to come back so she can pick up where she left of with him. Sorry ain't going to happen.
> 
> Sorry, just venting. Really SUCKS she's such a selfish POS herself...


"No thanks. I'm just going to go ahead and divorce you. Once that's done you can go ahead and compete with other women to try to win me back. I don't really see that happening though, as I'm pretty sure I can do better than a herpes infested lying *****" 

Whatever you do man, don't give up on the divorce. Your old marriage is already dead, you just need to make it legally dead. Then, if she wants to put the work in, you guys can work toward building a new marriage. But as you say, I doubt she'll want to put the work in. Any once you're single, fit and dressed nice, you'll have other girls doing everything in their power to make you pick them instead. 

Stay strong. Continue the Divorce. Even if she came to you tomorrow and said the affair is definitely over and that she only wants you forever and ever. Let her prove it once the divorce is final. Hell, let her prove it during the divorce process by agreeing to give you alimony and 100% legal custody of your children.

She won't. She's just mad that her pet isn't heeling anymore. Hence her desire for "Time"

Once you refuse to give her "Time" she'll attempt a false R because she's a coward and part of her knows that her boss won't leave his wife and she'll be alone.


----------



## wilderness

Tell her that if she gives you 50/50 custody with no alimony and no state ordered child support, you will then consider dating her after divorce. She can have all the time she needs, and if she doesn't want to date you, that's fine, too.
Of course, she'll never take your offer, but it's still worth trying.


----------



## tom67

Yea go see a lawyer tell him what you want he'll file then give him her work address so she can be served there, it does wonders to wake them up out of the fog plus it lights up your phone like a christmas tree. Don't let this fester just get it over with.


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## BetrayedDad

wilderness said:


> Tell her that if she gives you 50/50 custody with no alimony and no state ordered child support, you will then consider dating her after divorce. She can have all the time she needs, and if she doesn't want to date you, that's fine, too.
> Of course, she'll never take your offer, but it's still worth trying.


Funny you say that cause that's the deal I'm getting so far. Hence the reluctance to expose to OMW and potentially screw up my deal.

I love this website. It is my "oasis of sanity" in my currently messed up life.


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## Shaggy

The correct answer is: No more time. The marriage already ended when you chose to cheat. Take the offer now and realize how very lucky that your only loosing your husband and family, you both could have lost your jobs too. Take the offer now, or that may change.


----------



## tom67

wilderness said:


> Tell her that if she gives you 50/50 custody with no alimony and no state ordered child support, you will then consider dating her after divorce. She can have all the time she needs, and if she doesn't want to date you, that's fine, too.
> Of course, she'll never take your offer, but it's still worth trying.


You should say what wilderness wrote then tell us how the look on her face was I have to admit that is a good mind bender.


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## Chaparral

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: WS wants "time". Not sure if she wants to "work things out". Feels like she's being "rushed" into a decision by me filing for D. Needs to "think about things" and take care of "herself". Says she's getting "mixed signals" from me by filing for D then being so nice to her.
> 
> Clearly she's still hung up on the POSOM....
> 
> What time does she want? She's had 6 months to think about it while she was cheating. All I want is for WS to show some genuine remorse for what she did. All she does is act like she's sorry for getting caught rather than for what she did. The D is happening but it would of been nice to see any kind of attempt to save the marriage rather than asking me for "time". Why? So you can wait around for POSOM to never leave his wife?
> 
> I'm convinced she's waiting for me to beg her to come back so she can pick up where she left of with him. Sorry ain't going to happen.
> 
> Sorry, just venting. Really SUCKS she's such a selfish POS herself...


The divorce ain't final yet. She can take all the time she wants, will anyone be waiting though. Just tell her she has time but the clocks ticking on how much time is left to withdraw the divorce.

Has she been served?

Here is a website you need to give some thought to. The Rules Of Social Savviness: Rule #3 | Chateau Heartiste


----------



## MrHappyHat

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: WS wants "time". Not sure if she wants to "work things out". Feels like she's being "rushed" into a decision by me filing for D. Needs to "think about things" and take care of "herself". Says she's getting "mixed signals" from me by filing for D then being so nice to her.


She wants more time because she's fairly sure that she can do better than you, but hasn't convinced the POSOM to commit.

If she has more 'time' and 'space' she has breathing room to work toward her preferred outcome (leaving you), but if things fall through, she can go back to you and your financial and emotional support. Until she sees another opportunity to trade-up, that is.


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## BetrayedDad

Chaparral said:


> Has she been served?


We filed a joint petition.

and thanks for the link... I know I need to fix my beta problems.

I need to work on me too.


----------



## BetrayedDad

MrHappyHat said:


> She wants more time because she's fairly sure that she can do better than you, but hasn't convinced the POSOM to commit.
> 
> If she has more 'time' and 'space' she has breathing room to work toward her preferred outcome (leaving you), but if things fall through, she can go back to you and your financial and emotional support. Until she sees another opportunity to trade-up, that is.


EXACTLY... 

I'm done being played for a fool.


----------



## warlock07

> Feels like she's being "rushed" into a decision by me filing for D..


I mean, how ridiculous is this ? I just cannot get my head around this logic. How entitled must she feel to actually say this. She was having sex with another man for many months and now she feels rushed ?


----------



## wilderness

BetrayedDad said:


> Funny you say that cause that's the deal I'm getting so far. Hence the reluctance to expose to OMW and potentially screw up my deal.
> 
> I love this website. It is my "oasis of sanity" in my currently messed up life.


One thing to keep in mind is that if you are able to get this deal signed and ratified by a judge, she won't be able to go for alimony after the fact but she will be able to go for child support. Depending on where you live, this could be a huge financial calamity to you. Where I live, for example, even in a 50/50 situation, the higher earner would pay around 28% of their gross (probably over 40% of their net) in child support to the lower earner. BTW, it's a near certainty that at some point she will file for child support as they almost always do.

The counter to this risk is to try to make yourself the custodial parent. You can agree to waive child support of your x, and you can always give her more time with the children than the court order calls for. 

This might be the best thing to do, anyway, as your wife has thus far proven that she is not a very good role model nor is she acting like a good parent at this time.


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## tom67

Show her what being divorced is like take the kids somewhere for a long weekend tell her to get used to it. What an entitled biotch.


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## dymo

Best case scenario, how long do you think it will be till the divorce is finalized?


----------



## toonaive

Been there Betrayed, you are still her plan B. Kill that plan for her by marching towards divorce. Do not allow her, the best way you can, to get that control over you, and the tempo of the divorce. You are now in charge of how the marriage will end. As said before, her preferred outcome is leaving you. I think you realize now its been her plan for quite a while. You have made great great strides in getting on top of this. Do not allow her to change any of this! If there is a minuscule chance of R, and its what you wish. She has to respect you above all else. Anything short of this, and R will fail miserably, and you will have lost all you gained. Next time, things will be more difficult for you. This really is from personal experience.


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## BetrayedDad

dymo said:


> Best case scenario, how long do you think it will be till the divorce is finalized?


Attorney says if everything goes smooth I'll be, "Divorced by Christmas."


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## wilderness

Maybe the best thing to do is to convince her to move out while she 'thinks'. That way you put yourself in a much better position for custody when things can nasty.
And they will turn nasty, they always do.


----------



## BetrayedDad

warlock07 said:


> I mean, how ridiculous is this ? I just cannot get my head around this logic. How entitled must she feel to actually say this. She was having sex with another man for many months and now she feels rushed ?


IMO to her the affair is not the problem but a symptom of the overall rut our marriage became. Almost in a way, I deserved to be cheated on cause our marriage flat lined. No accountability for her actions, like a murder who says the voices in their head made them kill someone. She's enamored with a guy who cheats on his pregnant wife. That should say something to how delusional she is....


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> IMO to her the affair is not the problem but a symptom of the overall rut our marriage became. Almost in a way, I deserved to be cheated on cause our marriage flat lined. No accountability for her actions, like a murder who says the voices in their head made them kill someone. She's enamored with a guy who cheats on his pregnant wife. That should say something to how delusional she is....


We all have regrets and make mistakes but this was her decision to end the marriage not yours. You are only doing what is necessary it sux.


----------



## BetrayedDad

wilderness said:


> Maybe the best thing to do is to convince her to move out while she 'thinks'. That way you put yourself in a much better position for custody when things can nasty.
> And they will turn nasty, they always do.


Custody has not once been an issue. We both agree to 50/50. She knows the kids adore both of us. I told her to stay for now for the kids but she knows she will have to leave after the divorce if things don't pan out. (And it's looking very grim that it will) 

She has mentioned a few times leaving to try to call me out bluffing. I always say, "I don't want you to leave but you should do what you think is best. I won't stop you." That usually shuts her up quick. It's her way of trying to assert control over me. Or like when she says she "needs time". I say, "Take all the time you want while the court processes the D papers."


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## tom67

A good way to show her she is not in control, go out a few nights a week get some new clothes, cologne and don't tell her where you're going. Even if you just go to the library instead of a bar. It shows a clear sign to her that you are moving on and she'll wonder if your doing some young hottie on the side.


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## wilderness

BetrayedDad said:


> Custody has not once been an issue. We both agree to 50/50. She knows the kids adore both of us. I told her to stay for now for the kids but she knows she will have to leave after the divorce if things don't pan out. (And it's looking very grim that it will)
> 
> She has mentioned a few times leaving to try to call me out bluffing. I always say, "I don't want you to leave but you should do what you think is best. I won't stop you." That usually shuts her up quick. It's her way of trying to assert control over me. Or like when she says she "needs time". I say, "Take all the time you want while the court processes the D papers."


Hey, man...I truly hope in the event of a divorce you get 50/50 custody of your kids. I've been basically estranged from my little one for the past year and it's been one of the most painful things I've ever experienced. But you have to be realistic, here.
A really high percentage of women start off agreeing to 50/50, but a really low percentage actually stick with that agreement when push comes to shove. I know, I'm one of those guys whose wife started off agreeing to 50/50 then ended up in the fight of my life to see my daughter at all. What tends to happen is that once their divorced friends, coworkers, and lawyers start working on them, they change their minds. There is a certain loss of status that women feel when they don't get full custody. Then when the husband doesn't cave in, they are told by too many other people in their lives that he is just being a jerk trying to punish them.

Now, I do hope that your wife is the exception to the rule, I really do. But I wouldn't count on it if I were you. If you are 100% sold on divorce, you really need to get her to move out of the house. Your chances of having this go the way you want it will improve dramatically. If she stays in the house, the reverse is true. There is a very realistic chance that at some point she does a 180 and goes for child support, full custody, use of the marital home, lawyers bills, alimony, and a restraining order against you. You've got a lot to lose...think each step through carefully.


----------



## Curious_Guy

wilderness said:


> Now, I do hope that your wife is the exception to the rule, I really do. But I wouldn't count on it if I were you. If you are 100% sold on divorce, you really need to get her to move out of the house. Your chances of having this go the way you want it will improve dramatically. If she stays in the house, the reverse is true. There is a very realistic chance that at some point she does a 180 and goes for child support, full custody, use of the marital home, lawyers bills, alimony, and a restraining order against you. You've got a lot to lose...think each step through carefully.


Totally agree! BetrayedDad, are you leaning on keeping the house and the kids? If your wife keeps the house, chances are in matter of years that her lover may replace you as a father figure in the household. You don't want to lose time with your kids, all because of your wife's affair. You shouldn't be paying for her mistakes. She has to suffer the casualties she brought upon herself.


----------



## krismimo

tom67 said:


> A good way to show her she is not in control, go out a few nights a week get some new clothes, cologne and don't tell her where you're going. Even if you just go to the library instead of a bar. It shows a clear sign to her that you are moving on and she'll wonder if your doing some young hottie on the side.


I did that! Well not wearing cologne lol it drove my ex beyond nuts, he would blow up my phone, around the first time I caught him cheating I was invited to a huge kick back party he asked if he could come I looked at him and said no you can't. I got my things and didn't show back home.... until the next day. I didnt' want my friends to drink and drive.  he was moping until I got home he had the nerve to be mad, but I didn't care. The weird thing that threw me off was that he tried to jump my bones when I got back home. I was very confused, anyways BD if you do this don't be surprised if she tries to sleep with you. I think it's a mental thing if they see you going on with your life and your making yourself "available" to someone else the possessiveness part kicks in.


----------



## krismimo

BD,

I can't take credit for this but I saw someone post this suggestion several times, if your ex is truly sorry than divorce wouldn't be a issue she would take things slow with you and see if you can date even after the divorce. But only if your up to it and if that is what you want and you see she is making a huge effort, and you can forgive her. (That is the biggest hurdle). You can forgive someone and stay together, or forgive them and move on without them. It's all about being honest with yourself.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Update: OM told my WS that he asked his wife to separate because things weren't working out. (I doubt he mentioned the affair). Do you think this is a ruse to drag out the affair? It's a pretty ridiculous lie if it's true. The WS is totally buying into it and it looks like she's planning to get an apartment soon. That's fine I still want the divorce. My hope was he would dump her for at least some type of karma. Maybe he is as deluded as she is after all?

In any event I guess I'm going to expose to OMW now because I don't think she's working right now. So she can at least know the truth and take him to the cleaners in court.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: OM told my WS that he asked his wife to separate because things weren't working out. (I doubt he mentioned the affair). Do you think this is a ruse to drag out the affair? It's a pretty ridiculous lie if it's true. The WS is totally buying into it and it looks like she's planning to get an apartment soon. That's fine I still want the divorce. My hope was he would dump her for at least some type of karma. Maybe he is as deluded as she is after all?
> 
> In any event I guess I'm going to expose to OMW now because I don't think she's working right now. So she can at least know the truth and take him to the cleaners in court.


YEEEEESSSS!!:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Let her rape him in court please for all that is good!:smthumbup:


----------



## tom67

That's why we were saying to expose early. Let us know what happens I'll bet she'll thank you with a big fat kiss.


----------



## Chaparral

And put him on cheaterville.com now and send him the link, including the google link. This is why you don't wait to expose. It gives them time to get heir ducks in a row.


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## LostViking

Do it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Send the cheaterville link to his bosses and get his @rse fired.


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## tom67

LostViking said:


> Do it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm glad it sank in for him good way to end the week.


----------



## wilderness

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: OM told my WS that he asked his wife to separate because things weren't working out. (I doubt he mentioned the affair). Do you think this is a ruse to drag out the affair? It's a pretty ridiculous lie if it's true. The WS is totally buying into it and it looks like she's planning to get an apartment soon. That's fine I still want the divorce. My hope was he would dump her for at least some type of karma. Maybe he is as deluded as she is after all?
> 
> In any event I guess I'm going to expose to OMW now because I don't think she's working right now. So she can at least know the truth and take him to the cleaners in court.


Time to call his wife and find out the real deal.


----------



## Tobyboy

....and don't tell your cheating wife your exposing!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Get her some boxes.


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## tom67

I hope his w kicks his @ss out tonight!


----------



## 3putt

tom67 said:


> I hope his w kicks his @ss out tonight!


I'm betting someone else gets kicked to the curb tonight.

ETA- Hell, maybe even both!


----------



## tom67

I wonder if it went well it's gotta be tough.


----------



## tom67

OP you doing ok?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Sorry for the delay in my reply. I exposed to the OMW. I went to her house while he was at work to tell her and I felt really sorry for her. She seemed very nice. It went as well as one would of hoped considering and she was holding her new born baby in her arms the whole time so it was really sad. She deserved to know and I was glad I told her cause the POS would never have. I didn't take any enjoyment in it at all. Just felt sorry for the OMW.


----------



## LostViking

Wow. That is heavy. 

Has there been any fallout yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

When your WW confronts you - don't get into a debate defending exposure. Just say you told the truth to someone who had a right to know.

Then turn and walk away, or stop responding to her txts and calls


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## tom67

Sad but she had to know to make an informed decision that is going to affect her and her baby's life for some time. Proud of you now it's her call.


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## tom67

Get ready for "well I was going to be nice but since you exposed"...


----------



## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> Wow. That is heavy.
> 
> Has there been any fallout yet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not yet but it's still too early to tell... WS didn't seem surprised I did it but I'm pretty sure she's not happy about it.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Not yet but it's still too early to tell... WS didn't seem surprised I did it but I'm pretty sure she's not happy about it.


Too bad. These 2 have potentially broken up 2 families because they are both selfish it's on them!


----------



## LostViking

With a new a baby the OMW may not want to lose her support and may go easy on her husband. 

She may opt to stay in what will essentially be a triangular marriage with the OM essentially enjoying a polygamous relationship with both women. 

We have seen this before. There is a guy on this board named Ing. The OMW is essentially a mentally destroyed woman and Ing's ex-wife is her husband's full time mistress. The OMW has full knowledge and apparently is too mentally weak to do anything about it. 

This is worse case scenario, but be prepared for the possibility. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> With a new a baby the OMW may not want to lose her support and may go easy on her husband.
> 
> She may opt to stay in what will essentially be a triangular marriage with the OM essentially enjoying a polygamous relationship with both women.
> 
> We have seen this before. There is a guy on this board named Ing. The OMW is essentially a mentally destroyed woman and Ing's ex-wife is her husband's full time mistress. The OMW has full knowledge and apparently is too mentally weak to do anything about it.
> 
> This is worse case scenario, but be prepared for the possibility.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let's hope omw family supports her and she takes him to the cleaners. Did you tell her about the other woman he was doing besides your wife? Eh anyway don't second guess yourself.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> With a new a baby the OMW may not want to lose her support and may go easy on her husband.
> 
> She may opt to stay in what will essentially be a triangular marriage with the OM essentially enjoying a polygamous relationship with both women.
> 
> We have seen this before. There is a guy on this board named Ing. The OMW is essentially a mentally destroyed woman and Ing's ex-wife is her husband's full time mistress. The OMW has full knowledge and apparently is too mentally weak to do anything about it.
> 
> This is worse case scenario, but be prepared for the possibility.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The way the WS openly ignores all the bad qualities in her AP, I wouldn't be surprised to be perfectly honest if that happened. I need to move on and she knows I'm not going to tolerate her continuing to have this affair right under my nose. Divorce is still moving forward and if this crap is still going on after the final, she's gone. I'll have the house by then and if she hasn't left voluntarily, I will boot her out.


----------



## BetrayedDad

tom67 said:


> Did you tell her about the other woman he was doing besides your wife?


No, she seemed pretty devestated as it was. I didn't want to overdue it but I did give her my email address in case she was looking for more details.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> No, she seemed pretty devestated as it was. I didn't want to overdue it but I did give her my email address in case she was looking for more details.


Good.


----------



## wilderness

Dude, may I suggest that you keep a voice activated recorder on you at all times moving forward? If your wife tries to file for bogus restraining order or false domestic violence charge to get you out of the house this will protect you against that. Don't put it past her, she's shown what she is capable of.


----------



## tom67

wilderness said:


> Dude, may I suggest that you keep a voice activated recorder on you at all times moving forward? If your wife tries to file for bogus restraining order or false domestic violence charge to get you out of the house this will protect you against that. Don't put it past her, she's shown what she is capable of.


Can't be too careful.:iagree:


----------



## livinfree

wilderness said:


> Dude, may I suggest that you keep a voice activated recorder on you at all times moving forward? If your wife tries to file for bogus restraining order or false domestic violence charge to get you out of the house this will protect you against that. Don't put it past her, she's shown what she is capable of.


Never underestimate a wayward wife with the threat of losing her affair partner, cover your ass. 

She's already stabbed you in the back —the wallet and kids are next.


----------



## Mustbecrazy

Wish you had taken a picture of mother and baby to show your STBXW. She must be proud. Won't be long until that's her.


----------



## lewmin

Nice going on the exposure betrayeddad!

Now here is my prediction based on my own experience...

It's too early to tell but having been through this myself, the OM will now likely drop your wife like a hot potato. He may be telling his own wife that your wife meant nothing to him, that she came on to him, that it was the worst "mistake" he ever made, that he wants to be with his newborn baby and his own wife, and that he is so sorry.

He'd be crazy to keep the affair going. I think his own wife will now be watching everything and you two can share notes and work together to see what develops. His wife may demand that he changes jobs or your wife has to leave immediately, if he wants to save his marriage.

His ego of having two women at his mercy is now over and your wife, who thought they'd be together forever and continue to cheat, is now going through being dumped. 

Your wife will be pissed, but when the dopamine wears off, she will soon realize how she was used. Your wife will have no one there for her anymore, unless you want a R. Her dreams went up in smoke.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Well the wife was pissed... 

Made a bunch of serious threats about the house and kids then out of the blue retracted them all. She's now being nicey nicey and since she's a pathological liar I don't know what to believe. 

Assume the worst and hope for the best I guess. She's on her toes now that's for sure. Some of the stuff coming out of her mouth was the coldest, heartless, most uncompassionate I'd ever heard her say in my 12 years with her. She really could give two sh!ts about the feelings of the OMW and her newborn baby.

I can still threaten to burn her with HR if have too. Probably the only thing holding her back. Glad I didn't use up all my ammo.

"Affair fog" is too nice an analogy. I think "twisted by the dark side" is far more accurate. Can't wait to get away from her. She's making it easier and easier to detach all by herself.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Well the wife was pissed...
> 
> Made a bunch of serious threats about the house and kids then out of the blue retracted them all. She's now being nicey nicey and since she's a pathological liar I don't know what to believe.
> 
> Assume the worst and hope for the best I guess. She's on her toes now that's for sure. Some of the stuff coming out of her mouth was the coldest, heartless, most uncompassionate I'd ever heard her say in my 12 years with her. She really could give two sh!ts about the feelings of the OMW and her newborn baby.
> 
> I can still threaten to burn her with HR if have too. Probably the only thing holding her back. Glad I didn't use up all my ammo.
> 
> "Affair fog" is too nice an analogy. I think "twisted by the dark side" is far more accurate. Can't wait to get away from her. She's making it easier and easier to detach all by herself.


Go to best buy and get a sony voice activated recorder and carry it with you.


----------



## the guy

It sucks how that works but its typical.

When will you contact OMW again to see were she is at with her marriage...this info will give you more ammo with regard to how your wife behaves.

Typically if the WW get severally depressed in the next few day then she is showing signs of withdrawl and OM has thrown her under the bus.

In this case its more about withdrawls from OM then true remorse.

Its important to stay in contact with OM and inform her on how your WW is doing.....

At the end of the day if all is good and WW is working on her marriage then there is a good chance it went deeper under ground.

Your old lady will be big time depresses if OM bails on her and your WW mood will be in the crapper not lovy dovy towards you.

Again there is remorse and then there is another way to meet OM most likely if finding a new way to continue the affair your wife will be more then happy to make you happy.

So keep an eye out for withdrawals versus happy to have my husband back....that my friend is what he call a smoke screen!

The OMW should also look out for OM depression versus working on the marriage....If both are happy to work on the marriage then some one..be it your WW or her OM have figured out how to take it deeper.

In short if the WW or OM does bail on the affair... you or OMW will beable to compare notes on what is really going on and prevent a fake R.


----------



## Chaparral

Its a spiral dive into a crash and burn landing.

When did she find out? At work today?

Put him on cheaterville.com and send him the link. Hey, he wanted to play, show him how it works in the real world of adultery.


----------



## 3putt

BetrayedDad said:


> Well the wife was pissed...
> 
> Made a bunch of serious threats about the house and kids then out of the blue retracted them all. She's now being nicey nicey and since she's a pathological liar I don't know what to believe.
> 
> Assume the worst and hope for the best I guess. She's on her toes now that's for sure. Some of the stuff coming out of her mouth was the coldest, heartless, most uncompassionate I'd ever heard her say in my 12 years with her. She really could give two sh!ts about the feelings of the OMW and her newborn baby.
> 
> I can still threaten to burn her with HR if have too. Probably the only thing holding her back. Glad I didn't use up all my ammo.
> 
> "Affair fog" is too nice an analogy. I think "twisted by the dark side" is far more accurate. Can't wait to get away from her. She's making it easier and easier to detach all by herself.


All this means is you hit a home run on your first launch. If you want the grand slam, then do the workplace exposure, but do it right, and do it now. No phone calls, but in writing, and not just to HR, but immediate supervisors, HR, a couple of VPs, and the CEO/Pres. This way you can be assured that no rug sweeping within the company will occur.

If you want to bust this up for good, then this is what you do. That simple.

Sounds harsh, and yeah, it is. But that's not your fault. These are the consequences of her actions, not yours. Time for her to put her big girl panties on.


----------



## the guy

Funny thing about remorse, "nice" has nothing to do with it, saddness and shame are the emotions that come out!

Think about it...who the hell is nice when they have to face the wrong they did to there betrayed spouse.

Your old lady got pissed then nice were as depression and crying should be par to the course when the wayward is truely facing the pain they caused their family..

I'm I right or I'm right folks?


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> All this means is you hit a home run on your first launch. If you want the grand slam, then do the workplace exposure, but do it right, and do it now. No phone calls, but in writing, and not just to HR, but immediate supervisors, HR, a couple of VPs, and the CEO/Pres. This way you can be assured that no rug sweeping within the company will occur.
> 
> If you want to bust this up for good, then this is what you do. That simple.
> 
> Sounds harsh, and yeah, it is. But that's not your fault. These are the consequences of her actions, not yours. Time for her to put her big girl panties on.


You want to play you have to pay. Again she was not a stay at home mom judges take this heavily into consideration. Her lover would be screwed big time 18 years child support plus alimony oooh!


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Its a spiral dive into a crash and burn landing.
> 
> When did she find out? At work today?
> 
> Put him on cheaterville.com and send him the link. Hey, he wanted to play, show him how it works in the real world of adultery.


Send it to his higher ups too.


----------



## the guy

It sound like you showed a lot of grace and compasion.

The OMW is truely innocent and no matter how much a POS he is she just needs the facts from your side....who ever else the POSOM is banging is something for OMW to deside on and confront you about what other info you have.


----------



## Thor

For those of you who think judges are going to look at the wife's joblessness in the "correct" way (her fault due to her infidelity), read this article from today.

Jail Becomes Home for Husband Stuck With Lifetime Alimony - Bloomberg

Husbands (and wives) who lose a job or are severely downsized are still being held to the alimony award even though there is absolutely no way to make the payments. They are being sent to jail!

So if the judge has no mercy or objectivity in terms of the job situation of the payer, what makes anyone think the judge will take into consideration the reason the stbxw is unemployed?

Lifetime alimony is forever! Once it is imposed, there is absolutely zero reason for the receiver to ever work again (at least not with any traceability).

Get through the final settlement with as favorable a deal as possible, then go nuclear to your heart's content.


----------



## the guy

Did you tell OMW about this site?

Did you offer your support for OMW marriage...even if it was just more about compassion then anything else?

I sense OMW had her suspicions and though devisatated she believed you?


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> Did you tell OMW about this site?
> 
> Did you offer your support for OMW marriage...even if it was just more about compassion then anything else?
> 
> I sense OMW had her suspicions and though devisatated she believed you?


You should tell her about tam. Over a cup of coffeejust kidding get the var though.


----------



## the guy

Its game time.

Time for disinformation...OMW said nothing about a seperation...OMW is still sleeping with OM....OM planned romantic vaction with OMW....OMW stated that a women at work was stalking him....

You can go on and on and at the end of the day the OM can deny and dent but the seeds will have been planted.


Ya I get it and one shouldn't stoop to this level of lies...but man you can have so much fun with your WW when OM tells your WW that the OMW is in contact with betrayed husband (you)....

You can make up all kinds of crap to stress out the affair.

On a serious note, the biggest stress is that this exciting, taboo, and secret is now out in the open....and at the end of the day it just ain't that much fun now that everyone knows!!!!!

In fact "it kinda of sucks that poeple now know that we are in fact in this motel cuz they can't find us"


----------



## the guy

THe VAr help with stratagy...has nothing to do with evidence, but more about intel and the next step the wayward is taking.

Especially when they are so phucking nice and lovy dovy you start to think twice about your choices.

The VAR keeps you on track...can't be use it in court but it sure does validate the waywards agenda!!!!

And with that you can take counter measures in preventing from getting screwed again.


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> THe VAr help with stratagy...has nothing to do with evidence, but more about intel and the next step the wayward is taking.
> 
> Especially when they are so phucking nice and lovy dovy you start to think twice about your choices.
> 
> The VAR keeps you on track...can't be use it in court but it sure does validate the waywards agenda!!!!
> 
> And with that you can take counter measures in preventing from getting screwed again.


VAR will keep him out of jail if she tries to get a dv charge on him.


----------



## 3putt

Thor said:


> For those of you who think judges are going to look at the wife's joblessness in the "correct" way (her fault due to her infidelity), read this article from today.
> 
> Jail Becomes Home for Husband Stuck With Lifetime Alimony - Bloomberg
> 
> Husbands (and wives) who lose a job or are severely downsized are still being held to the alimony award even though there is absolutely no way to make the payments. They are being sent to jail!
> 
> So if the judge has no mercy or objectivity in terms of the job situation of the payer, what makes anyone think the judge will take into consideration the reason the stbxw is unemployed?
> 
> Lifetime alimony is forever! Once it is imposed, there is absolutely zero reason for the receiver to ever work again (at least not with any traceability).
> 
> Get through the final settlement with as favorable a deal as possible, then go nuclear to your heart's content.


I would love to see the stats on how often something like this actually happens. Yeah, I can pick out one instance with any situation on this planet to counter any argument. But I would like to see just how many times this kind of injustice is served.

Do you have any more case examples that you would like to offer into evidence?

If you're gonna cite one source to support a position that I have never read about until you brought it to my attention, surely you must have at least 1,2,3....even 100 more in a country of 300 million (Let's not go global here) for me to peruse.


----------



## Mustbecrazy

I suspect the OM will quickly polish his résumé and get another job, then out the WW to HR of his old company. She means nothing to him, just to his penis.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> I would love to see the stats on how often something like this actually happens. Yeah, I can pick out one instance with any situation on this planet to counter any argument. But I would like to see just how many times this kind of injustice is served.
> 
> Do you have any more case examples that you would like to offer into evidence?
> 
> If you're gonna cite one source to support a position that I have never read about until you brought it to my attention, surely you must have at least 1,2,3....even 100 more in a country of 300 million (Let's not go global here) for me to peruse.


Like the article says it varies state to state. Cracks me up he's in jail-ah- how is he supposed to pay:slap:goin back to debtor's prison?


----------



## the guy

So wait, if you go to prison and you make $.25 an hour making furnature, and your spouse has 30% of your income for life..then after food and board. you make $.05 that your spouse is entitled to 30% of your income.

As this is the case in a private prison. if you go to state you still work...if your lucky but if not then in a state run prison you make nothing...and in fact.... me, you and even an ex wife is paying the way for some guy stuck in state corrections for a few years.

But then again if your lucky you get stuck in county and then you don't have to worry about more time for other infractions and have to go to court.... and then you keep getting continuences until you get out of county for the original infraction..then face the infraction you have while in county at a later date....

I guess my point is when your locked up it really doesn't matter, your phucked and the only thing on your mind is getting thru the next day.....what every is happening on the out side realy doesn't hold water when your that phucked.

Especially if your not built for county or state time!!!!!


----------



## 3putt

tom67 said:


> Like the article says it varies state to state. Cracks me up he's in jail-ah- how is he supposed to pay:slap:goin back to debtor's prison?


But see, that's not the point I'm trying to make. My point is, just how many times does something this idiotic and insane happen to justify it being used as a deterrent to workplace exposure on this board???

I've invited Thor to provide me with more than just this. I will await his response....and hopefully with more than just this one article of extreme injustice and obvious prejudice.

I'll hang up and listen.


----------



## the guy

3putt said:


> I would love to see the stats on how often something like this actually happens. Yeah, I can pick out one instance with any situation on this planet to counter any argument. But I would like to see just how many times this kind of injustice is served.
> 
> Do you have any more case examples that you would like to offer into evidence?
> 
> If you're gonna cite one source to support a position that I have never read about until you brought it to my attention, surely you must have at least 1,2,3....even 100 more in a country of 300 million (Let's not go global here) for me to peruse.


Guys, do you really think that good husband like your selves have been screwed over by their chicks.

Guys that have cheating wives sell dope and beat poeple and steal.... and when they are doing time there old ladies are screwing around..

We betrayed husband aren't always providing and buting our b1tches on a pedistal,,,some guys slap theirs chicks around and really are just bad husbands for selling dope and ripping others off..........maybe once a year we have enough dough to treat out kids.

Just looking at the other side of the coin here....If a guy stole cars for a living or collected money for a shark...does he diserve the kind of betray that me and many have face and talked about in the forum?

maybe he's a bank robber and his ol lady cheated...phuck it... ain't any easier for him as it was for you....but guess what he's going to do time for not paying his alimony me and most of us aren't


An ya don't ask me for some bull sh1t stat...it just makes sense to me that if you get that screwed then you had it coming. 

If they want you locked up they will lock you up...


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> But see, that's not the point I'm trying to make. My point is, just how many times does something this idiotic and insane happen to justify it being used as a deterrent to workplace exposure on this board???
> 
> I've invited Thor to provide me with more than just this. I will await his response....and hopefully with more than just this one article of extreme injustice and obvious prejudice.
> 
> I'll hang up and listen.


Oh I agree this idiot judge who thinks there are high paying jobs everywhere. Keep up crap like this and she'll have to get a remote starter for heer car, just sayin.


----------



## 3putt

My point has obviously flown over everyone's head.

Sigh....going to bed.


----------



## Thor

the guy said:


> So wait, if you go to prison and you make $.25 an hour making furnature, and your spouse has 30% of your income for life..then after food and board. you make $.05 that your spouse is entitled to 30% of your income.


No, it isn't a percentage it is a fixed $ amount. If the payer's income goes up, the receiving spouse can go back to court to get it increased, maybe. But the payer frequently cannot get it lowered.

The first guy in that article had a huge income, about $1 million per year. His alimony was nearly $100k _for life_ to his ex-wife. Then he lost his job. He kept paying her out of his savings until it was all gone. So now the judge throws him in jail for being a dead-beat!

There was no downward adjustment of his alimony to account for the downward income. There were several other people mentioned in the story with the same situation but more modest incomes.

I have a friend who was working a ton of overtime, around 70 hours per week. His cheating wife divorced him and got alimony and child support. The court based these on his total income, so he has to keep on working overtime! The court essentially sentenced him to 70 hours of labor per week. He had a job offer from a major airline, but it would be a 50% drop from his $130k per year job to his first year pay. He went to the court to get his alimony and child support reduced but the court said no. Since the decrease in pay would be due to a voluntary change in circumstance, he would still be on the hook for the full amount! So he had to turn down the dream job which eventually would pay 2X what he makes now.


----------



## tom67

Thor said:


> No, it isn't a percentage it is a fixed $ amount. If the payer's income goes up, the receiving spouse can go back to court to get it increased, maybe. But the payer frequently cannot get it lowered.
> 
> The first guy in that article had a huge income, about $1 million per year. His alimony was nearly $100k _for life_ to his ex-wife. Then he lost his job. He kept paying her out of his savings until it was all gone. So now the judge throws him in jail for being a dead-beat!
> 
> There was no downward adjustment of his alimony to account for the downward income. There were several other people mentioned in the story with the same situation.
> 
> I have a friend who was working a ton of overtime, around 70 hours per week. His cheating wife divorced him and got alimony and child support. The court based these on his total income, so he has to keep on working overtime! The court essentially sentenced him to 70 hours of labor per week. He had a job offer from a major airline, but it would be a 50% drop from his $130k per year job to his first year pay. He went to the court to get his alimony and child support reduced but the court said no. Since the decrease in pay would be due to a voluntary change in circumstance, he would still be on the hook for the full amount! So he had to turn down the dream job which eventually would pay 2X what he makes now.


And what happens when he is dead in 6 years working 70 hrs a week.


----------



## Thor

3putt said:


> I would love to see the stats on how often something like this actually happens. Yeah, I can pick out one instance with any situation on this planet to counter any argument. But I would like to see just how many times this kind of injustice is served.
> 
> Do you have any more case examples that you would like to offer into evidence?
> 
> If you're gonna cite one source to support a position that I have never read about until you brought it to my attention, surely you must have at least 1,2,3....even 100 more in a country of 300 million (Let's not go global here) for me to peruse.


Go visit some men's rights and divorce forums. You'll see lots of this.

This is why many men give away everything up front rather than agree to alimony. They walk away from the house, the retirement accounts, savings, everything. Just give it all to the stbxw rather than be on the hook for alimony.

I know a woman who gets good alimony. If she remarries or cohabitates she loses it. Her live in boyfriend has his own small condo and they are not married, so on paper there is no proof of cohabitation. She makes no secret that this is a way for her to get her alimony checks while still getting to live with her long term boyfriend.


----------



## Thor

3putt said:


> But see, that's not the point I'm trying to make. My point is, just how many times does something this idiotic and insane happen to justify it being used as a deterrent to workplace exposure on this board???


If you're the one it happens to, it happens 100% of the time!

My lawyer tells me, and it is what I read on various internet sites, in my state the formula is basically an equalization of $ after subtracting housing and health care. Child support is a separate calculation. Fault is not at all a factor in my state in any way. That is, her cheating will be no factor in relieving me of alimony, nor will the fault of her loss of job matter.

So it is not a straight percentage. Add the two incomes, subtract the 2 mortgages/rents and subtract the health insurances. The result is split in 2. Do the math with the 2 incomes and figure out how much the high earner gives to the low earner.

In theory the judge considers the earning potential of both people, if it is made an issue by one of us in court. Of course a person can find all kinds of reasons they cannot earn more than they are, especially in this economy.

Health insurance is part of the equation, so if she loses her full time job and has to buy private insurance, her costs go way up and the ex-husband is going to pay for it.

Once this amount is declared by the court, it is forever unless amended. The low earner has every reason to go back to claim more. The high earner has to prove a good reason and convince the court to reduce alimony before it happens. Court is always a crap shoot.

This is why the original divorce settlement is critical. It costs tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to challenge it later, and there is no assurance the judge will agree.


----------



## Thor

tom67 said:


> And what happens when he is dead in 6 years working 70 hrs a week.


Life insurance pays off?


----------



## tom67

Betrayed these are all just ideas get the cold facts on money you will owe her if you don't like the first one get a second opinion.


----------



## 3putt

Thor said:


> Go visit some men's rights and divorce forums. You'll see lots of this.
> 
> This is why many men give away everything up front rather than agree to alimony. They walk away from the house, the retirement accounts, savings, everything. Just give it all to the stbxw rather than be on the hood for alimony.
> 
> I know a woman who gets good alimony. If she remarries or cohabitates she loses it. Her live in boyfriend has his own small condo and they are not married, so on paper there is no proof of cohabitation. She makes no secret that this is a way for her to get her alimony checks while still getting to live with her long term boyfriend.


Point me to the websites that you like to frequent to paint the infrequent worst case scenarios and I'll be happy to check on it myself.

Not asking you to do my work for me, just point me in the right direction of all your sources. I'm quite sure there are some cases out there (probably more than I would like to stomach), but not near enough to throw this kind of crap out to deter a man from doing everything possible to save his marriage and family.

I would bet severely that averages on a man recovering a marriage doing the full nuclear exposure we suggest far, FAR outweigh these examples you present. 

I would also posit, that if some of these people had done what we suggest on this board during their DDay, then the numbers that you have yet to supply me would be WAY lower.


----------



## Thor

3putt said:


> I'm quite sure there are some cases out there (probably more than I would like to stomach), but not near enough to throw this kind of crap out to deter a man from doing everything possible to save his marriage and family.
> 
> I would bet severely that averages on a man recovering a marriage doing the full nuclear exposure we suggest far, FAR outweigh these examples you present.


The OP does not want to save his marriage. He wants to divorce his cheating stbxw. I have made it clear several times in this thread that everything must be done with a strategic purpose. If one wants to save the marriage, exposure is a very good tool. If one has no intention of saving the marriage, exposure may not serve any purpose in facilitating a divorce with the best possible outcome for the OP.

Dadsdivorce.com is one source. My personal friends and coworkers are another. A few of my non-relationship forums which I won't mention are other sources. My lawyer is another source. A professional mediator who wrote the book "A Man's Guide to a Civilized Divorce" is yet another voice. While the chances are good that a judge will come to a decision consistent with the law, a person should always stack the odds in his favor when going to court. Exposure for the thrill of revenge or the satisfaction of breaking up an affair is not a good strategy if your goal is to D.


----------



## 3putt

Thor said:


> *The OP does not want to save his marriage. He wants to divorce his cheating stbxw. I have made it clear several times in this thread that everything must be done with a strategic purpose. If one wants to save the marriage, exposure is a very good tool. If one has no intention of saving the marriage, exposure may not serve any purpose in facilitating a divorce with the best possible outcome for th*e OP.
> 
> Dadsdivorce.com is one source. My personal friends and coworkers are another. A few of my non-relationship forums which I won't mention are other sources. My lawyer is another source. A professional mediator who wrote the book "A Man's Guide to a Civilized Divorce" is yet another voice. While the chances are good that a judge will come to a decision consistent with the law, a person should always stack the odds in his favor when going to court. Exposure for the thrill of revenge or the satisfaction of breaking up an affair is not a good strategy if your goal is to D.


BD, do you want any chance at saving your marriage or not? This question is valid in this discussion we're having for your benefit because I was assuming otherwise.

Okay, this time I really do have to hit the sack. To be continued....


----------



## BetrayedDad

3putt said:


> BD, do you want any chance at saving your marriage or not?


No, there is no chance. I've had enough conversations to tell she's just too far gone at this point. She is continuing to lie to me with no signs of remorse. Her loyalties are clearly with the OM.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> No, there is no chance. I've had enough conversations to tell she's just too far gone at this point. She is continuing to lie to me with no signs of remorse. Her loyalties are clearly with the OM.


Has she told her immediate family yet and if so are they upset/surprised? Sorry man.


----------



## Chaparral

BetrayedDad said:


> No, there is no chance. I've had enough conversations to tell she's just too far gone at this point. She is continuing to lie to me with no signs of remorse. Her loyalties are clearly with the OM.


I am neither for or against reconciliation. But it is to soon to be making that decision. It is way to early to see if your wife will want to reconcile. She is on a roller coaster too, with adrenalin pumping through her veins. Her life as she knows it is over. You both need to let the other do some thinking. Quit fighting and talk like its a business deal.

This isn't anywhere near over.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> I am neither for or against reconciliation. But it is to soon to be making that decision. It is way to early to see if your wife will want to reconcile. She is on a roller coaster too, with adrenalin pumping through her veins. Her life as she knows it is over. You both need to let the other do some thinking. Quit fighting and talk like its a business deal.
> 
> This isn't anywhere near over.


Chap is right assume you are divorcing and show you are indeed moving on. He may dump your w when he finds out how screwed he is in d. One day at a time.


----------



## 3putt

BetrayedDad said:


> No, there is no chance. I've had enough conversations to tell she's just too far gone at this point. She is continuing to lie to me with no signs of remorse. Her loyalties are clearly with the OM.


Well, then do what you have to do to protect yourself, your finances and forget my argument. 

She will sh!t her bed one day soon though.

Just protect your kids from her. You think what YOU are going through is life altering..........


----------



## BetrayedDad

Update: OMW tossed OM out of house but wants to try to work it out in counseling (I guess she's blaming herself). WS seems fairly certain now OM will try to work it out too and is disappointed because I can tell she still has feelings for him. She wants him to herself and I can tell she totally expected this guy to come running into her arms. With all that, pathetically I think she's still barely holding out hope. 

WS was kissing my butt yesterday because she knows plan A (OM) is likely to fail, plan B (me) is divorcing her so she's basically in damage control mode to scoop up whatever man she can. I give her fleeting hope only because I want the silky smooth D to continue but after seeing her true colors I know there is no chance I can ever trust her again.

How people can reconcile after this is beyond me. I couldn't live with myself knowing I was plan B.


----------



## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: OMW tossed OM out of house but wants to try to work it out in counseling (I guess she's blaming herself). WS seems fairly certain now OM will try to work it out too and is disappointed because I can tell she still has feelings for him. She wants him to herself and I can tell she totally expected this guy to come running into her arms. With all that, pathetically I think she's still barely holding out hope.
> 
> WS was kissing my butt yesterday because she knows plan A (OM) is likely to fail, plan B (me) is divorcing her so she's basically in damage control mode to scoop up whatever man she can. I give her fleeting hope only because I want the silky smooth D to continue but after seeing her true colors I know there is no chance I can ever trust her again.
> 
> How people can reconcile after this is beyond me. I couldn't live with myself knowing I was plan B.


And that's probably just it. People who reconcile do so precisely because they aren't plan B. There are different types of infidelity. It seems your wife was trying to trade up. IMO that is the toughest one to overcome if it can be overcome at all.


----------



## Foghorn

Hi BD

This is a great example of exposure in action. A couple of days ago, it was "you B*#$!, how could you do this to ME." when you told the OMW. Now if the script plays out the way it usually does, OM will want to reconcile with his wife, save himself the embarrassment and heartache of divorce, not to mention a ton of $$$, as well as access to his child, he will want his wife and baby back. 

Your wife isn't worth all the hassle to OM and she's about to find that out.

She's not worth the hassle to you, either. I trust she is also about to find that out. 

It will really hurt. However, she did this to herself. And over time, this is the only way she might confront her own problems and issues, figure out why she got here, and change to become a better person... for someone else.

You certainly deserve better. I have been following your thread. I wanted to send my support. Here's a really good article I read recently:

“Affair Love” vs. “Authentic Love” | Affair Resources and Advice

IMHO, keep pushing towards D. You can do better.

-FH


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: OMW tossed OM out of house but wants to try to work it out in counseling (I guess she's blaming herself). WS seems fairly certain now OM will try to work it out too and is disappointed because I can tell she still has feelings for him. She wants him to herself and I can tell she totally expected this guy to come running into her arms. With all that, pathetically I think she's still barely holding out hope.
> 
> WS was kissing my butt yesterday because she knows plan A (OM) is likely to fail, plan B (me) is divorcing her so she's basically in damage control mode to scoop up whatever man she can. I give her fleeting hope only because I want the silky smooth D to continue but after seeing her true colors I know there is no chance I can ever trust her again.
> 
> How people can reconcile after this is beyond me. I couldn't live with myself knowing I was plan B.


Betrayed this is why you expose now om is scrambling spending all his energy away from work dealing with his wife, serves him right. Maybe if your w was totally transparent, quit her job, went to ic you might be able to r. Stay the course you will be surprised how much better it gets. Take care of you and the kids.


----------



## tom67

I would suggest you contact omw and ask her if she wants to talk tell her this is not her fault she could probably use a friend right now.


----------



## Thor

These:



Foghorn said:


> This is a great example of exposure in action. A couple of days ago, it was "you B*#$!, how could you do this to ME." when you told the OMW. Now if the script plays out the way it usually does, OM will want to reconcile with his wife, save himself the embarrassment and heartache of divorce, not to mention a ton of $$$, as well as access to his child, he will want his wife and baby back.





tom67 said:


> Betrayed this is why you expose now om is scrambling spending all his energy away from work dealing with his wife, serves him right. Maybe if your w was totally transparent, quit her job, went to ic you might be able to r. Stay the course you will be surprised how much better it gets. Take care of you and the kids.


do not mesh with this:



BetrayedDad said:


> WS was kissing my butt yesterday because she knows plan A (OM) is likely to fail, plan B (me) is divorcing her so she's basically in damage control mode to scoop up whatever man she can.
> 
> How people can reconcile after this is beyond me. I couldn't live with myself knowing I was plan B.



BetrayedDad _doesn't want R_. He knows he cannot accept being Plan B.

:scratchhead: Why was this exposure _at this time_ good? Why does OP give a flying fark if OM is scrambling, if OM dumps OP's wife, or if OP's wife comes begging for R?


----------



## turnera

Just don't make any promises that can come back to haunt you, ok?


----------



## Acabado

Keep the ball rolling legaly wise.
Hard 180. NC except necessary logistics if any.


----------



## bfree

Thor said:


> These:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do not mesh with this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BetrayedDad _doesn't want R_. He knows he cannot accept being Plan B.
> 
> :scratchhead: Why was this exposure _at this time_ good? Why does OP give a flying fark if OM is scrambling, if OM dumps OP's wife, or if OP's wife comes begging for R?


Maybe he felt the OMW had a right to know?


----------



## toonaive

I would not count on silky smooth D. My thinking is, its a little too late for that , since her plan A is in the crapper. She dreamed of a better life without you. With your continuing with the D, she will only be nice to get something from you. Ultimately she will get very very nasty once she completely realizes her plan B is finished, and she is on the outside looking in.


----------



## tom67

Thor said:


> These:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do not mesh with this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BetrayedDad _doesn't want R_. He knows he cannot accept being Plan B.
> 
> :scratchhead: Why was this exposure _at this time_ good? Why does OP give a flying fark if OM is scrambling, if OM dumps OP's wife, or if OP's wife comes begging for R?


I wouldn't want the pos raising my kids part time so he has him out of the picture for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

bfree said:


> Maybe he felt the OMW had a right to know?


At some point, yes OMW has a right to know. Now? At what cost to OP?

It all sounds good and high morality to expose to OMW right now, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!! But when OP is writing a $2k check to his stbxw _every month for the rest of his life_, waiting to expose a few months might, in hindsight, look to have been a better course of action.

OMW now becomes a wild card. An unknown actor, an unpredictable person. OP's D suddenly became potentially much more complicated.


----------



## Thor

tom67 said:


> I wouldn't want the pos raising my kids part time so he has him out of the picture for now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Posom has his own family. Posom was never going to take OP's stxw in or be a part time parent to OP's kids.


----------



## tom67

Thor said:


> Posom has his own family. Posom was never going to take OP's stxw in or be a part time parent to OP's kids.


Well those are assumptions Thor as of now he is out of the picture. His w may just come out of the fog and at least be a better mother because she sounds kind of useless right now.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Thor said:


> It all sounds good and high morality to expose to OMW right now, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!! But when OP is writing a $2k check to his stbxw _every month for the rest of his life_, waiting to expose a few months might, in hindsight, look to have been a better course of action.


I actually agree with you 100%. That would of been the smartest play in my specific situation of not wanting R. That was originally my plan, to wait for final D then nukem all. I'm not going to lie, I let my emotions get involved in the decision to change it. 

I got wind that the OM was contemplating leaving is W (in hindsight clearly another lie to drag out the affair). And the thought of him leaving his wife without knowing about the affair, in essence "getting away with it" made me expidite the exposure. All I could think of was "she had the right to know too" and he shouldn't be able to get out of his marriage like he was mr. nice guy. 

So I took the risk because I had TWO exposure cards left. One with the OMW and the other with HR. I still have the HR card and if **** hits the fan I can play it BUT I do realize that using the OMW card (and shattering the fantasy) was a calculated risk. Honestly, I'm not sorry I took the risk either sometimes self-respect is worth more than money. As of this moment, I'm still getting a smooth D, I still have the HR card AND I made his life alot more miserable. So luckily for me it worked (so far)...


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> I actually agree with you 100%. That would of been the smartest play in my specific situation of not wanting R. That was originally my plan, to wait for final D then nukem all. I'm not going to lie, I let my emotions get involved in the decision to change it.
> 
> I got wind that the OM was contemplating leaving is W (in hindsight clearly another lie to drag out the affair). And the thought of him leaving his wife without knowing about the affair, in essence "getting away with it" made me expidite the exposure. All I could think of was "she had the right to know too" and he shouldn't be able to get out of his marriage like he was mr. nice guy.
> 
> So I took the risk because I had TWO exposure cards left. One with the OMW and the other with HR. I still have the HR card and if **** hits the fan I can play it BUT I do realize that using the OMW card (and shattering the fantasy) was a calculated risk. Honestly, I'm not sorry I took the risk either sometimes self-respect is worth more than money. As of this moment, I'm still getting a smooth D, I still have the HR card AND I made his life alot more miserable. So luckily for me it worked (so far)...


I thought you did fine under the sh!t circumstances and yes no hr unless you absolutely have to let her keep working so you pay as little as possible. Good job it will be a roller coaster.


----------



## BetrayedDad

tom67 said:


> His w may just come out of the fog and at least be a better mother because she sounds kind of useless right now.


Since D-Day she actually has been a better mom now that she's in jeapardy of only seeing them 50% of the time. While the affair was going on she was largely ignoring them and me. Obviously because she was fixated with him and was treating me like the babysitter.


----------



## Chaparral

Thor said:


> At some point, yes OMW has a right to know. Now? At what cost to OP?
> 
> It all sounds good and high morality to expose to OMW right now, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!! But when OP is writing a $2k check to his stbxw _every month for the rest of his life_, waiting to expose a few months might, in hindsight, look to have been a better course of action.
> 
> OMW now becomes a wild card. An unknown actor, an unpredictable person. OP's D suddenly became potentially much more complicated.


This totally depends on what state he lives in.

At this point she is playing nice. How does exposing the OM increase alimony? How does pissing her off increase alimony?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chaparral said:


> This totally depends on what state he lives in.
> 
> At this point she is playing nice. How does exposing the OM increase alimony? How does pissing her off increase alimony?


I think his point is that she could of lawyered up after I exposed and gone after me for alimony since the D is not over yet. I think it's a valid arguement.


----------



## Chaparral

What state do you live in? You can get alimony info online.


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> Just don't make any promises that can come back to haunt you, ok?


Deal, I haven't and I won't. If I did, I would be no better than the POSOM.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chaparral said:


> What state do you live in? You can get alimony info online.


I'd rather not say in case someone I don't care for finds this website. My attorney doesn't think there is enough income disparity between me and WS to warrant Alimony. Child Support is where she can do serious damage to me financially because of the kids.


----------



## TDSC60

BetrayedDad said:


> I'd rather not say in case someone I don't care for finds this website. My attorney doesn't think there is enough income disparity between me and WS to warrant Alimony. Child Support is where she can do serious damage to me financially because of the kids.


Even with 50/50 custody????

That doesn't sound right.


----------



## BetrayedDad

TDSC60 said:


> Even with 50/50 custody????
> 
> That doesn't sound right.


Even with 50/50 custody I could still be on the hook. That actually has very little to do with the decision amazingly enough.

I doubled checked through the state website and my attorney is correct.


----------



## Chaparral

Is your state a fault/no fault state?


----------



## BashfulB

BetrayedDad said:


> Even with 50/50 custody I could still be on the hook. That actually has very little to do with the decision amazingly enough.
> 
> I doubled checked through the state website and my attorney is correct.


If you can prove that you were spending the most time with the kids while she was out running around, you can file for primary custody, then she would have to pay you child support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

Chaparral said:


> This totally depends on what state he lives in.
> 
> At this point she is playing nice. How does exposing the OM increase alimony? How does pissing her off increase alimony?


Yes it does depend on circumstances, so everything needs to be filtered by the OP. 

In my state alimony is not mandatory, but the law provides a structure for it. If my wife makes no demand, the court has no reason to impose it. If my wife wants it, there is a formula for lifetime alimony, and I am toast.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Update: My WS sucks. She just sucks. We were having a pretty civil week. Everything was going fairly nicely between us considering the circumstances. She was telling me how the OM was going to work things out with his wife. How she KNOWS he's not leaving her. How she was coming out of the fog and seeing his true colors. How she realized she made a mistake having this affair.

Anyway, we were planning to take the kids out for dinner after work. So I called to confirm with her before she left. She wasn't there. Come to find out she left work early to go screw the OM in the parking lot. She was actually going to do this and then come to dinner with us like nothing ever happened. I mean.... WTF??? 

We're still getting divorced obviously but it still bothers me. Where is this woman's conscious? or guilt? or shame? My god...


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: My WS sucks. She just sucks. We were having a pretty civil week. Everything was going fairly nicely between us considering the circumstances. She was telling me how the OM was going to work things out with his wife. How she KNOWS he's not leaving her. How she was coming out of the fog and seeing his true colors. How she realized she made a mistake having this affair.
> 
> Anyway, we were planning to take the kids out for dinner after work. So I called to confirm with her before she left. She wasn't there. Come to find out she left work early to go screw the OM in the parking lot. She was actually going to do this and then come to dinner with us like nothing ever happened. I mean.... WTF???
> 
> We're still getting divorced obviously but it still bothers me. Where is this woman's conscious? or guilt? or shame? My god...


Did she flat out tell you this or did you drive over there. Well another trip to the omw home I guess.


----------



## BetrayedDad

tom67 said:


> Did she flat out tell you this or did you drive over there. Well another trip to the omw home I guess.


After she lied to me several times, she admitted she was with him but there were "just talking". Most of their sexual encounters entailed sneaking out of work separately and meeting up. I'm not an idiot. I know that's why they sneaked out. They could of "just talked" at the office or through text message.

She's pathetic. I'm even starting to think SHE'S the aggressor trying to keep the affair going...


----------



## 3putt

BetrayedDad said:


> After she lied to me several times, she admitted she was with him but there were "just talking". Most of their sexual encounters entailed sneaking out of work separately and meeting up. I'm not an idiot. I know that's why they sneaked out. They could of "just talked" at the office or through text message.
> 
> She's pathetic. I'm even starting to think SHE'S the aggressor trying to keep the affair going...


She is. I would call the OMW and tell her what happened, and that if it happens again, some careers will be in dire jeopardy.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> After she lied to me several times, she admitted she was with him but there were "just talking". Most of their sexual encounters entailed sneaking out of work separately and meeting up. I'm not an idiot. I know that's why they sneaked out. They could of "just talked" at the office or through text message.
> 
> She's pathetic. I'm even starting to think SHE'S the aggressor trying to keep the affair going...


What a biotch! Make her sleep on the couch ef her! Tell her to get an apartment by oct 1st.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> She is. I would call the OMW and tell her what happened, and that if it happens again, some careers will be in dire jeopardy.



3putt is right what if someone catches them in the company parking lot:slap:They are both idiots.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: My WS sucks. She just sucks. We were having a pretty civil week. Everything was going fairly nicely between us considering the circumstances. She was telling me how the OM was going to work things out with his wife. How she KNOWS he's not leaving her. How she was coming out of the fog and seeing his true colors. How she realized she made a mistake having this affair.
> 
> Anyway, we were planning to take the kids out for dinner after work. So I called to confirm with her before she left. She wasn't there. *Come to find out she left work early to go screw the OM in the parking lot.* She was actually going to do this and then come to dinner with us like nothing ever happened. I mean.... WTF???
> 
> We're still getting divorced obviously but it still bothers me. Where is this woman's conscious? or guilt? or shame? My god...


Maybe she was trying to win the OM back by... well, laying on her back...

Just a thought.


----------



## Shaggy

Call his wife and update her.


----------



## Dyokemm

BetrayedDad,

Inform OMW immediately.

And ask your pathetic WW if she is trying to push you to go to HR?

I would tell both her and OMW that if this disrespect to you and your kids happens one more time you will be nuking this POS and your WW at their company.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> BetrayedDad,
> 
> Inform OMW immediately.
> 
> And ask your pathetic WW if she is trying to push you to go to HR?
> 
> I would tell both her and OMW that if this disrespect to you and your kids happens one more time you will be nuking this POS and your WW at their company.


YES!!:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## dymo

BetrayedDad said:


> She's pathetic. I'm even starting to think SHE'S the aggressor trying to keep the affair going...


Yeah, that's seemed likely for quite some time.

The sooner you're divorced the better.


----------



## BetrayedDad

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Maybe she was trying to win the OM back by... well, laying on her back...
> 
> Just a thought.



That's the conclusion I have come to as well. I guess he put his pictures of his kid and wife back on his desk at work. Since the OM didn't leave after exposure it's obvious he wants to work it out to. So essentially because we're both drifting from her she's throwing herself at him in some sad attempt to change is mine.

Heaven forbid she throws herself at me instead! (not that I would reconcile at this point) 

The OMW knows about the affair and wants to R. If she wants to keep her head in the sand there's nothing I can do. Even she has to realize as long as they continue to work together it won't be over. At this point, it's probably better if WS stays in fantasy land. I just want my D and to move on with life.


----------



## Shaggy

You can at least give the OMw info so she can know what is still going on,


----------



## LostViking

Yes you should tell the OMW what you found out. It would send a clear message to your wayward wife that she is isolated and no one is really on her side. Might snap some logic into her head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## harrybrown

How fast can you get her out of your life? I am sorry you are having this horrible experience, but you do need her gone. She is toxic to you and there will be someone much better for you. Ask her how she would feel if you had an affair.


----------



## barbados

BetrayedDad said:


> That's the conclusion I have come to as well. I guess he put his pictures of his kid and wife back on his desk at work. Since the OM didn't leave after exposure it's obvious he wants to work it out to. So essentially because we're both drifting from her she's throwing herself at him in some sad attempt to change is mine.
> 
> Heaven forbid she throws herself at me instead! (*not that I would reconcile at this point*)
> 
> The OMW knows about the affair and wants to R. If she wants to keep her head in the sand there's nothing I can do. Even she has to realize as long as they continue to work together it won't be over. At this point, it's probably better if WS stays in fantasy land. *I just want my D and to move on with life.*


Good for you BD! Stay strong and stay the course ! You move on with your dignity and self respect. She moves on with a sh%t sandwich !


----------



## BetrayedDad

barbados said:


> Good for you BD! Stay strong and stay the course ! You move on with your dignity and self respect. She moves on with a sh%t sandwich !


Yeah, just sucks is all. Other than apparently being totally soulless and without any morals, she's actually still a nice person.

What a complete waste...


----------



## barbados

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah, just sucks is all. Other than apparently being totally soulless and without any morals, she's actually still a nice person.
> 
> What a complete waste...


No, it wasn't a complete waste. You had your good times with her, but now that is over. So you focus on moving on, and eventually building a new chapter in your life with someone else.

Remember this, no one can take the good times you lived away from you. You were there, you experienced them, they were real. Her actions in the present don't change the past. You are doing the right thing moving on. It all sucks a$$ right now, but it won't always.


----------



## walkonmars

BD

Do yourself a great big favor. Stop caring about what she is doing in terms of her relationship with the POSOM. It's over between you two. The sooner you detach yourself emotionally, the better off you'll be. 

Protect your own emotional well-being. Do a hard 180. Be civil with her but discuss nothing at all with her except the kid's welfare and immediate legal aspects of the divorce. 

Ask her NOTHING. 
Tell her NOTHING. 

Be cool, do as others have recommended. Go out by yourself. Go to the gym. Make new guy friends. Hang out with the kids a little more (without her) - take them to a playground, bowling, or a skating rink. 

You'll be better off when you detach completely. You'll soon be going your separate ways - prepare yourself now by ignoring her antics - and the POSom.


----------



## BetrayedDad

walkonmars said:


> BD
> 
> Do yourself a great big favor. Stop caring about what she is doing in terms of her relationship with the POSOM. It's over between you two. The sooner you detach yourself emotionally, the better off you'll be.
> 
> Protect your own emotional well-being. Do a hard 180. Be civil with her but discuss nothing at all with her except the kid's welfare and immediate legal aspects of the divorce.
> 
> Ask her NOTHING.
> Tell her NOTHING.
> 
> Be cool, do as others have recommended. Go out by yourself. Go to the gym. Make new guy friends. Hang out with the kids a little more (without her) - take them to a playground, bowling, or a skating rink.
> 
> You'll be better off when you detach completely. You'll soon be going your separate ways - prepare yourself now by ignoring her antics - and the POSom.



I'm really trying hard to do what you suggest. Unfortunately, I still live with her and she still works with him. So it's very hard to detach when it's literally in my face day in and day out. The final divorce is still several months away and, while she is looking for an apartment, who knows when she will find one? I get what your saying but out of sight out of mind. As long as I have to see her face every day and know she's going to see him everyday it's like constantly picking at an open wound.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm really trying hard to do what you suggest. Unfortunately, I still live with her and she still works with him. So it's very hard to detach when it's literally in my face day in and day out. The final divorce is still several months away and, while she is looking for an apartment, who knows when she will find one? I get what your saying but out of sight out of mind. As long as I have to see her face every day and know she's going to see him everyday it's like constantly picking at an open wound.


Get out of the house more out of sight out of mind.


----------



## toonaive

Out of some sort of morbid curiosity. Who was expected to pay for dinner with the kids the other night? Had you all gone out.


----------



## BetrayedDad

I already made her get a seperate checking account so we have just been alternating when paying for things. I'm not sure whose turn it was to pay. Wasn't really on my mind at the moment. It wasn't a date if that's what you're thinking. The kids have no idea we're getting divorce yet so we are still doing some family things together for them at least until we break the news.


----------



## LostViking

It has too be rought to sit at a dining table and play happy with your wife, when all you want to do is dump your dinner salad on top of her head.


----------



## harrybrown

Is there any way that your attorney can speed up the divorce? I would start going out with friends and have her see what it is like to be on the other side.


----------



## Chaparral

Ever notice how excruciating this gets when the betrayed spouse keeps from exposing. He carries all the weight while is wife goes off happily to work ,banging the om while the nice husband sits home and dies a little more every day.


----------



## toonaive

BetrayedDad said:


> I already made her get a seperate checking account so we have just been alternating when paying for things. I'm not sure whose turn it was to pay. Wasn't really on my mind at the moment. It wasn't a date if that's what you're thinking. The kids have no idea we're getting divorce yet so we are still doing some family things together for them at least until we break the news.


Thats kind of what I was wondering. If she was still working you as plan B. 

My favorite quote from the movie "Dark Shadows"

She is "The Succubus of Satan, and ***** of the Devil." Always makes me chuckle a little. But fits my AxW.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Ever notice how excruciating this gets when the betrayed spouse keeps from exposing. He carries all the weight while is wife goes off happily to work ,banging the om while the nice husband sits home and dies a little more every day.


I know Betrayed you've done your job and exposed to omw. If she keeps on doing this crap having sex at or right outside the office, a quick followup with her and let her her know they have not ended things. Maybe she is a doormat so it doesn't matter whatever.


----------



## Acabado

I can't imagine. This kind of in house hell with the wayward basicaly flaunting it sounds so horrible.


----------



## bandit.45

Have you guys ever heard of DingerDad? His wife went back to the OM three times and left him for good the third time. He got to watch her get dolled up and go meet the OM while he stayed home with the kids. 

That was one of the most heartbreaking threads I ever read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

If Dingerdad can make it through that kind of hell and come out on top, so can BD. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49882-d-day-3-a.html


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> If Dingerdad can make it through that kind of hell and come out on top, so can DD.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49882-d-day-3-a.html


That was sad.


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> That was sad.


I wish he would come back and give us an update as to how he is doing. 

Sorry BetrayedDad, wasn't trying to hijack. Just wanted to share this thread with you to give you some encouragement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

toonaive said:


> If she was still working you as plan B.


I always was plan B and still am. OM has formally declared he wants to work it out with his wife because of the baby. Of course, he's also more than willing to continue the affair behind her back because well it's free sex and he's a POS. He probably could of kept the OMW oblivious to the affair for a long time. She seemed very out of touch with what goes on with him. Too bad for him I wasn't.

My WS also wasn't happy with our marriage beforehand (I guess that's obvious since she had an affair) and I don't think that's changed all that much since. At this point, I'm unfortunately her most stable option so she sticks around half-heartedly trying to "figure things out". I'm not getting much effort to save the marriage from her, maybe 60%. I can see she will never do any heavy lifting or whatever it take to try to save our relationship. 

If I begged her to come back I'm all but certain she would but hoinestly why the hell should I? She's the one whose been acting like a POS the last 6 months. She reiterated to me that she feels I moved too quickly to file for divorce and why should she try when it seems like I've, "All ready made up my mind." She wants to buy time and she's really done nothing to deserve it. 

Bottom line is WS seems content with playing me for a fool (telling me everything I want to hear) while she strings us both along and or looks for other options. I think she's been lying to me so long that she thinks she can continue to do so and I'll be too dumb to realize it. It's become second nature to her. I know she doesn't want to hurt me but in her twisted mind what I don't know won't hurt me. She's just too stupid to realize I do know EXACTLY what's going on.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Is there any reason you cannot tell her to stop lying , that you know exactly what is going on?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Is there any reason you cannot tell her to stop lying , that you know exactly what is going on?


Yes, I don't want to disclose how I know.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Makes perfect sense.


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## bandit.45

Are you keeping records and copies of their communications?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kukuy

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm really trying hard to do what you suggest. Unfortunately, I still live with her and she still works with him. So it's very hard to detach when it's literally in my face day in and day out. The final divorce is still several months away and, while she is looking for an apartment, who knows when she will find one? I get what your saying but out of sight out of mind. As long as I have to see her face every day and know she's going to see him everyday it's like constantly picking at an open wound.


Listen man:

I was in your position and believe me it wasnt the best 3 months of my life, but the advice given here is GOLD! do your best to follow it and things will be much much easier for you.

The way things will end up you and her will have split time with the kids, be the kids with you or with her you are not likely to see her as much so why not begin the process of making the best of it now.

Plan out your time with the kids! If you both are at home at night, then take the kids out! movies, park, dinner, etc...and let her have the some time with the kids as well (so long as you know it will be time spent with the kids and kids only!).

When she has the kids - leave the house, go have dinner by yourself, call up some friends, go and enjoy a beer (dont over do it) or go to a movie, find a hobby... whatever you do do not sit at home with her!

I had to live in the same house as the exwife for a miserable three months, however mine was not there as much- but when she was home, i immediately left! Sure it wasnt easy explaining to the kdis what i was doing but it allowed me to keep my sanity!

The kids did not really see much fo a difference since they only saw their momma about 1 day a week for the previous year so to them it was a treat!

You need to think of your sanity and you have to detach ASAP! she surely has, so why stay in a toxic situation for you?


----------



## Thor

BetrayedDad, have you ever watched the 1956 movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"? Go find it on Netflix or AmazonPrime or somewhere and enjoy it.

Your wife is a pod person. She is not the person you married. This woman who goes out to meet OM is a totally different person than the woman you walked down the aisle with.

I think if you look at it that way you can release some of this trauma you're going through. The wonderful young woman you married would never have done this to you, and that is why it is so hurtful to you. So stop thinking of it as being her.

As I've been going through our old photos from the last 30+ years I find pictures of my wife which show the girl I married. Wow! I would fall for her again in a moment. But I can show you the photo which marks the transition into who she is now. It hit me hard when I saw that photo a few months ago. She is not the same person at all any longer.


----------



## Kukuy

BetrayedDad said:


> I always was plan B and still am. OM has formally declared he wants to work it out with his wife because of the baby. Of course, he's also more than willing to continue the affair behind her back because well it's free sex and he's a POS. He probably could of kept the OMW oblivious to the affair for a long time. She seemed very out of touch with what goes on with him. Too bad for him I wasn't.
> 
> My WS also wasn't happy with our marriage beforehand (I guess that's obvious since she had an affair) and I don't think that's changed all that much since. At this point, I'm unfortunately her most stable option so she sticks around half-heartedly trying to "figure things out". I'm not getting much effort to save the marriage from her, maybe 60%. I can see she will never do any heavy lifting or whatever it take to try to save our relationship.
> 
> If I begged her to come back I'm all but certain she would but hoinestly why the hell should I? She's the one whose been acting like a POS the last 6 months. She reiterated to me that she feels I moved too quickly to file for divorce and why should she try when it seems like I've, "All ready made up my mind." She wants to buy time and she's really done nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Bottom line is WS seems content with playing me for a fool (telling me everything I want to hear) while she strings us both along and or looks for other options. I think she's been lying to me so long that she thinks she can continue to do so and I'll be too dumb to realize it. It's become second nature to her. I know she doesn't want to hurt me but in her twisted mind what I don't know won't hurt me. She's just too stupid to realize I do know EXACTLY what's going on.



One thing i will always kick myself in the ass about not doing is calling her out on her lies!

If she has played you for a long time, there is no guilt in lying to you anymore! dont fall victim to that, call her BS out and do it with a smile!


----------



## tom67

Kukuy said:


> One thing i will always kick myself in the ass about not doing is calling her out on her lies!
> 
> If she has played you for a long time, there is no guilt in lying to you anymore! dont fall victim to that, call her BS out and do it with a smile!


Betrayed I hope you call her on all of this around the time the d is final.


----------



## bandit.45

Kukuy said:


> One thing i will always kick myself in the ass about not doing is calling her out on her lies!
> 
> If she has played you for a long time, there is no guilt in lying to you anymore! dont fall victim to that, call her BS out and do it with a smile!


He's playing the cards he's been dealt the best way he can. If he has a specific reason for not exposing what he knows in order to obtain the outcome he wants, then that is what he needs to do. No two mariages are the same. No two divorces are the same. 

Sometimes you have to swallow your pride, take the lumps, and eat the regrets in order to come out with the best outcome. It sounds like BD feels that giving up the satisfaction of cramming her lies back down her throat is worth having 50% access to his kids and most of his earnings intact.


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## Chaparral

You can call her out on her lies. When she denies, say that's not what I hear, you're not as sneaky as you think. Several posters have implyed a PI and gotten away with it.

You could also threaten the om with a trip to hr.


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## tom67

You could also threaten the om with a trip to hr. :iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Dyokemm

"I'm not getting much effort to save the marriage from her, maybe 60%."

BetrayedDad, 

the primary reason you are seeing this is because the A is essentially still going on and will be as long as she works with this f'ing POS.

If you ever wanted to have ANY chance to R and actually save your M, you had to remove the job/affair environment completely.

This you could have done by exposing the A to the company HR and destroying both of their jobs.

POS would be scrambling to save his own a** and M rather than continuing to f with your situation.

Your WW would literally feel the rug pulled from beneath her feet and truly see how her life was about to crumble, and with POS out of the pic as far as support (in fact probably throwing her under the bus to save his own worthless behind) she MIGHT have snapped out of the fog and truly reconsidered fixing your M.

If you were dead set on D, I can understand not nuking them at work for financial reasons. But if you ever wanted R even as a remote possibility, it had to occur.


----------



## Acabado

> "I'm not getting much effort to save the marriage from her, maybe 60%."


Not to piss on your parade. She's putting less than 0 effort. She's cheating, she's actively destroying the marriage for heaven's sake so just the opposite of working on it. Don't compartimentalize as she's doing. It's mutualy exclusive working on the marriage and cheating at the same time.
I know you know, I know it can come across as silly to remind you this but denial is a powerful thing nad wishful thinking is a form of denial at this point.


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## tom67

BD if you are dead set on d, then stop wasting time collecting evidence. Go out with friends. Are there any single ladies at work ask one out just a meal or drinks you could use a little ego boost


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## Catherine602

Single ladies at work are not there for the purpose of stroking the ego of every man who has been wronged. I am sure they are persons with their own agendas. 

Besides he is still married and has no time to waste on frivolous ego stroking. He will feel better if he gets a good D and custody settlement.

If he loses focus and comes up short, women will not make his ego feel better.


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## tom67

Catherine602 said:


> Single ladies at work are not there for the purpose of stroking the ego of every man who has been wronged. I am sure they are persons with their own agendas.
> 
> Besides he is still married and has no time to waste on frivolous ego stroking. He will feel better if he gets a good D and custody settlement.
> 
> If he loses focus and comes up short, women will not make his ego feel better.


Point is to stop collecting evidence he's not going to use anyway and move on. I think he's in a no fault state so what's the problem:scratchhead:I didn't say screw everyone in the office just get out learn how to interact with women again.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Dyokemm said:


> If you were dead set on D, I can understand not nuking them at work for financial reasons. But if you ever wanted R even as a remote possibility, it had to occur.


I do realize that. It's not like I want a D but it's what's best for me in the end. As far as I'm concerned, she is still having an affair. I didn't nuke to HR because I wasn't sure if I wanted to R. I just wished I had seen more willingness on her part to end it rather than a bunch of cheap talk. My mentality is if I had to go to such great lengths to save this marriage then it probably wasn't really worth saving to begin with. Better to settle on good D terms and run...

I guess like another poster mentioned, I'm letting wishful thinking make this harder than it needs to be. Maybe I am in denial. I probably do still see my old wife in this monster she has become. I keep expecting to wake up from a bad dream. All I know is this sucks and I want to crawl into a hole sometimes and never come out. I know it will get better but for now I have months of misery ahead of me...


----------



## Dyokemm

"I just wished I had seen more willingness on her part to end it rather than a bunch of cheap talk."

BetrayedDad,

My point is that you probably never will see what you were looking for until AFTER the A was blown up. 

As long as it was still going on, the distraction of POS would have impacted the effort you saw her giving even if she did want to think about fixing it with you.


----------



## Catherine602

What's the hurry? He is still living in the same house with his wife for goodness sake. It is painful but he has to get through this with the help of family and friends. And himself. 

Will interaction with women help him at this point. It may make some poor woman feel used but there is no harm in that? 

Priorities, morality and ethics. What the most important things for him at this point? 

Don't risk injuring another human being, even a useful woman. Learn from this experience to make sure that no one feels the pain that he feels. 

I see this advice so frequently given to D men but not to woman. Always wonder why women are seen as agents in service to egos. Men are not are they? 

If some woman posted that a divorcing woman who is not even moved out of her house yet, get some of her male co-worker to buy her dinner to make her feel better, what do you think the reaction would be? 

Pisses me off. Sorry just sayin'.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Dyokemm said:


> As long as it was still going on, the distraction of POS would have impacted the effort you saw her giving even if she did want to think about fixing it with you.


I understand. My viewpoint is the OMW knows. The OM has chosen to work it out with his wife. The part of the fantasy where they run off into the sunset is clearly over and yet my WS persists knowing this. I don't see how destroying their livelyhood and leaving the OMW and her baby penniless is going to help my situation. In fact, it will make it worse come D time. R, even if I wanted it, in the best case scenario is never a guarentee.

She has to choose to detach from him just as much as I need to force myself to detach from her. I lead the horse to water but I can't make her drink it. Even if I blew up HR, it's no guarentee she would stop contacting him. She has to WANT to do that and she's either unable or unwilling too. It would just feel like I was manipulating her into being with me. I want her to be with me willingly. I can live with it if she said no. It's her lying to me, into what's turning out to be a false attempt at R, that is hurting me the most.

I'm just sorry it has to be this way...


----------



## dymo

Have you any plans on when to tell the kids? And how?


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## harrybrown

Your wife said that you moved to quickly to divorce. Did you tell her that you could not believe she would stab you in the back over and over and continue to stab you in the back every day now with her A? What would she do if you had the affair and continued to hurt her like she has you?


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## BetrayedDad

dymo said:


> Have you any plans on when to tell the kids? And how?


The court is making us take a parenting class prior to granting the D. I guess they will give advice on how to tell the kids. We will tell them after the class. Hopefully, it's useful.




harrybrown said:


> Your wife said that you moved to quickly to divorce. Did you tell her that you could not believe she would stab you in the back over and over and continue to stab you in the back every day now with her A? What would she do if you had the affair and continued to hurt her like she has you?


Actually I pretty much told her that verbatum among a million other valid points and concerns. She says nothing and tells me, "I don't know what to say." It's like speaking to someone whose been brainwashed by a cult. All the logic in the world won't snap her out of it. She doesn't want to hear the truth because the truth isn't part of her fantasy. What she needs is to be locked away for a month or two and deprogrammed. An intelligent conversation with a brick wall would be more productive.


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## harrybrown

Is your wife still in the affair fog, or any updates? Are you doing better or worse?


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## BetrayedDad

harrybrown said:


> Is your wife still in the affair fog, or any updates? Are you doing better or worse?


Unfortunately yes she is. Not much as really changed that's why I haven't posted an update... She still sees her AP at work and obviously still has feelings for him even though she denies it to me. I'm still moving forward with the divorce to her dismay. She's upset she is being divorced and losing the stability I provide while the OM (despite w/e lies he's still telling her) is working it out with his wife. She feels like she's going through this alone and I'd ALMOST feel sorry for her if I wasn't the person she screwed over. She shows little remorse, doesn't like talking about the affair and won't do any heavy lifting to try to salvage the marriage. She's just going along with it even though I can see she's not happy about it. The status quo hasn't changed so I see no reason to change course, as I said she's still in the fog.

Thanks for asking! This forum and it's members has been a great support tool for me. I feel better than I did a month ago about it but obviously the pain, anger and sadness is still there. I don't expect that to go away anytime soon but I've made up my mind to move on with life.


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## awake1

If you truly, truly want to R, you need to nuke it from orbit. 

The other man's finances, his kid, and wife are not your wife or kid, and are not your concern. 

You are not the cause for him losing his job, if you so choose it. He is, because he failed to remain professional. 

You're carrying someone elses burden when you have plenty to carry yourself. 

Nothing kills an affair like exposure.


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## BetrayedDad

I don't really think we can R. It's clear now, from her perspective, this was an exit affair that backfired on her. He had no intention of ever leaving his wife. I'm not going to spend the rest of my life as plan B. Even if she was stupid enough to believe what the OM was telling her just to get in her pants. It would of been nice if she had ended it on her own but the fact she hasn't is just the nail in the coffin. She's going to have to live with the fact that she destroyed her family, not me. I'll be fine, I'm a great catch. She's the one whose going to end up alone and miserable.


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## LostViking

That's a good attitude BD. And it is true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown

Glad you are doing some better. It would be nice if she would move out since she has little remorse. If she would get a different job, that would be a good idea on her part, she is OM plan b. Maybe time for you to start having fun.


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## BetrayedDad

She looking for an apartment as we speak. Unfortunately, she doesn't make a lot of money so it's taking some time. Plus, I don't want my kids to spend half the week in a bad neighborhood so if she has to get on a waiting list and wait for a good unit to open up in a nice area I'd rather she did that for my kids sake.

I do want her out so I can start having fun too. Respectable woman don't date guys who still live with their spouse. I guess my wife didn't get the memo...


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## BetrayedDad

Update: DIVORCED....

I filed about 30 days ago and the court already signed off on everything and it is official. I got the house, 50% of the time with the kids, no alimony or child support. She never lawyered up. Honestly, between the OM jerking her around and dealing with me emotionally she was too preoccupied. We are both shocked (more so her it seems) over how fast it was. The lawyer I consulted said by Christmas. We never even went to court. I had the WS sign everything (not just the petition) all upfront, in case she changed her mind later, while she was in fantasyland and still being cooporative. That plan seems to have paid off in spades. 

So what now? She still lives with me because it's only been six weeks since I found out about the A. She looking for an apartment though slowly. OMW is still trying to R while OM is still telling WS he wants to be with her. OM is obviously playing both sides so he comes out with something. While I had many talks with the WS, I don't see any chance for reconcilation with this screwed up situation going on and WS won't do the heavy lifting to even try. I'll be damned if I'm going to fight to salvage us, if she won't. So I guess once she leaves we're done?


----------



## toonaive

Divorced? Wow, that was quick. With her still seeing the OM at work, and with your XW still living in the house, I don't see R ever having a chance. She didn't fall hard or fast enough. Maybe in time, she might see that she made a very big mistake. In any event, your doing well, continue your fight to move on. Things will get noticeably better for you after she moves out.


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## Acabado

BetrayedDad said:


> So I guess once she leaves we're done?


You are already done even she's there physicaly present. She's a temporary roomate.
Put the focus completely on you, on moving on, on planning your new life, your schedule.
Stop talking to her except dayly necesitties, kids etc. Don't engage her at all beyond that. 

What about start dating a little. Just a little fun.


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## Tron

If the D is now final and you own the house, what exactly is keeping you from kicking her out?

JMO, but you are making it too easy for her.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: DIVORCED....
> 
> I filed about 30 days ago and the court already signed off on everything and it is official. I got the house, 50% of the time with the kids, no alimony or child support. She never lawyered up. Honestly, between the OM jerking her around and dealing with me emotionally she was too preoccupied. We are both shocked (more so her it seems) over how fast it was. The lawyer I consulted said by Christmas. We never even went to court. I had the WS sign everything (not just the petition) all upfront, in case she changed her mind later, while she was in fantasyland and still being cooporative. That plan seems to have paid off in spades.
> 
> So what now? She still lives with me because it's only been six weeks since I found out about the A. S*he looking for an apartment though slowly.* OMW is still trying to R while OM is still telling mine he wants to be with her. OM is obviously playing both sides so he comes out with something. While I had many talks with the WS, I don't see any chance for reconcilation with this screwed up situation going on and WS won't do the heavy lifting to even try. I'll be damned if I'm going to fight to salvage us, if she won't. So I guess once she leaves we're done?


Tell her to hurry up. Find the apartment for her and tell her to get out. Asap. She wanted out so move. The longer she lingers the longer it will take for you to move on. 

Forget R for now. She is nowhere even close. I suggest getting boxes and tell her to begin packing her stuff.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Tron said:


> If the D is now final and you own the house, what exactly is keeping you from kicking her out?
> 
> JMO, but you are making it too easy for her.


If I had no kids I wouldn't care if she lived in a van down by the river... 

She has the kids 50% of the time. I don't want them to visit mommy in some scummy apartment.


----------



## turnera

She's working?


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> She's working?


She works full time but she doesn't make a lot of money.


----------



## aug

Any plans to expose her and her lover at work? to HR?


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## BetrayedDad

aug said:


> Any plans to expose her and her lover at work? to HR?


I don't know, to be honest. It would purely be for spite at this point.... 

She claims she reports to a new supervisor now which I believe. (Back story is rumors started circulating around the office when word of the D got out so she was moved descretely by upper mgmt). I could try to make her life more miserable but her having no job is not going to get her out of my house and my life any faster. We're D now so I keep asking myself "what does it really matter?" She going to do whatever she wants and I need to stop caring what she does.


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## WyshIknew

So another POS gets away with it then?


----------



## BetrayedDad

WyshIknew said:


> So another POS gets away with it then?


Hardly, I told his wife. She's been a real b!tch to him ever since from what I hear and she's watching him like a hawk. His family knows too so everyone is well aware now he's a POS.


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## tom67

WyshIknew said:


> So another POS gets away with it then?


Sad isn't it. Oh well.


----------



## jack.c

so at this point i do believe that you need to go on in your life...
- go out when she is in, be nice to her but in a cold way...in a few words make her feel inconfortable to live in the same house.

start dating


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## tom67

jack.c said:


> so at this point i do believe that you need to go on in your life...
> - go out when she is in, be nice to her but in a cold way...in a few words make her feel inconfortable to live in the same house.
> 
> start dating


:iagree:


----------



## Doc Who

Congratulations, although it probably feels like hell. Your healing will be much further along with HER GONE. So, it is admirable that you want her to have a nice place for your kids, THAT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. She has known that the D was going through for a month and yet she clings to living with you? How pathetic is that.

Sir, you need to get this soulless person who occupies the body of your former wife out of your life. You cannot control where she goes or what she does, but you sure need to get her out of that house. It is no longer her place!!

I do want to warn you that the longer you allow her to remain as a roommate, the longer she will feel entitled to do so. And the longer your misery and misery for the kids.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with letting HR know about their affair. What they do after that is up to the company. But giving them the facts is right thing to do.


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## bfree

Want to motivate her to move? Start dating.


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> Want to motivate her to move? Start dating.


Yep and she can babysit.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Acabado said:


> You are already done even she's there physicaly present. She's a temporary roomate.
> Put the focus completely on you, on moving on, on planning your new life, your schedule.
> Stop talking to her except dayly necesitties, kids etc. Don't engage her at all beyond that.
> 
> *What about start dating a little. Just a little fun.*


This is going to be tough with his XW still living there. He can bad mouth his X(for effect) to his date all he want's, In the back of the dates mind, he still probably sleeping with his XW.

My XW is going through this right now. She D'd her 2nd husband about 5 years ago. He moved out for 2 weeks, but neither could afford to live on their own, so he moved back in.

They've slept on opposite ends of the house for the whole time. She didn't start dating again until a few years ago. It hasn't gone well. I told her it wouldn't and why. In her date's eyes, she's still seeing here 2nd XH...


----------



## WyshIknew

And it may seem far fetched now but when life gives her a good slap up the reality department be prepared for an attempt at reconciliation. May not happen of course but I think the speed of divorce may have shocked her.


----------



## bfree

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> This is going to be tough with his XW still living there. He can bad mouth his X(for effect) to his date all he want's, In the back of the dates mind, he still probably sleeping with his XW.
> 
> My XW is going through this right now. She D'd her 2nd husband about 5 years ago. He moved out for 2 weeks, but neither could afford to live on their own, so he moved back in.
> 
> They've slept on opposite ends of the house for the whole time. She didn't start dating again until a few years ago. It hasn't gone well. I told her it wouldn't and why. In her date's eyes, she's still seeing here 2nd XH...


Who says he needs to tell his dates that his exW is still living at the house?


----------



## Tron

BetrayedDad said:


> If I had no kids I wouldn't care if she lived in a van down by the river...
> 
> She has the kids 50% of the time. I don't want them to visit mommy in some scummy apartment.


That is very considerate of you, but the long term prognosis is that you have no control over where or with whom she lives in the future. Your kids are going to get exposed to whatever she exposes them to and you honestly can't do a damn thing about it. 

The sooner she has to face reality the better. Give her a deadline and stick to it. It will put an end to her cake-eating, force her to respect you, and maybe clear out the fog that much sooner. 

And WIK may be right, a R or false R attempt may be on the horizon when she realizes that life without money, without the support of her XH or OM is not going to be very pleasant.


----------



## bfree

Tron said:


> That is very considerate of you, but the long term prognosis is that you have no control over where or with whom she lives in the future. Your kids are going to get exposed to whatever she exposes them to and you honestly can't do a damn thing about it.
> 
> The sooner she has to face reality the better. Give her a deadline and stick to it. It will put an end to her cake-eating, force her to respect you, and maybe clear out the fog that much sooner.
> 
> And WIK may be right, a R or false R attempt may be on the horizon when she realizes that life without money, without the support of her XH or OM is not going to be very pleasant.


My wife knows a couple that divorced and 20 years later are still living in the same house. They hate each other but couldn't agree on what to do with the property so neither one moved out. The kids are now grown and extrremely screwed up from their upbringing in that toxic environment.


----------



## Hicks

You need to get her out ASAP.

She develops rights a tenant if you don't get her out.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

bfree said:


> Who says he needs to tell his dates that his exW is still living at the house?


Yes, that's true. But if I had told a women that I was single. We then hit it off and arranged to go on a date, I(ME) could not in clear conscience not tell her that my XW and I still lived in the same house.

What if this women turns out to be someone that I started to fall for. Then she starts falling for me. NOW, I have to tell her, "oh, by the way"...

He can roll those dice if he want's to. I prefer to not play that game.


----------



## bfree

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Yes, that's true. But if I had told a women that I was single. We then hit it off and arranged to go on a date, I(ME) could not in clear conscience not tell her that my XW and I still lived in the same house.
> 
> What if this women turns out to be someone that I started to fall for. Then she starts falling for me. NOW, I have to tell her, "oh, by the way"...
> 
> He can roll those dice if he want's to. I prefer to not play that game.


He's dating, not getting engaged.

Seriously though its way too early for BD to be thinking of anything but going out and having some fun. No woman is going to get a commitment from him any time soon. By the time he's ready to get serious about women again his wife will (hopefully) be out of the house.


----------



## Tomara

I once started dating a guy that still lived with his ex-wife (found out after the fact). I couldn't deal. I met up with him a couple of weekends ago at a bike fest. 3 years later he's still living with his ex-wife. To weird for me!


----------



## turnera

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> He moved out for 2 weeks, but neither could afford to live on their own, so he moved back in.
> 
> They've slept on opposite ends of the house for the whole time.


Say what? He hasn't been able to earn enough money to afford his own place...in FIVE YEARS? 

Sounds like a certain woman has blinders on. Or else likes it this way.


----------



## turnera

BD, you need to set a firm deadline: I'd like you out by October 31.


----------



## LongWalk

BD, feel sorry for you and even your mixed up ex. She acts like a lost puppy in a wilderness. Once she moves out will she be into playing mistress to OM? He must see her as burden long term. Do you think she will become promiscuous or date a succession of losers? Has she begun to see your sex rank rise?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

bfree said:


> My wife knows a couple that divorced and 20 years later are still living in the same house. They hate each other but couldn't agree on what to do with the property so neither one moved out. The kids are now grown and extrremely screwed up from their upbringing in that toxic environment.


Real life War of the Roses...with kids. That is so messed up!

OP, you need a deadline.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> BD, feel sorry for you and even your mixed up ex. She acts like a lost puppy in a wilderness.


More like a female version of Peter Pan. She needs to grow up and get out of never never land.




LongWalk said:


> Once she moves out will she be into playing mistress to OM? He must see her as burden long term.


Definately, would not surprise me if she kept seeing him and he was still with his wife. I can see this happening.




LongWalk said:


> Do you think she will become promiscuous or date a succession of losers? Has she begun to see your sex rank rise?


No, not promiscuous though succession of losers is in the cards. I doubt she will find anyone who will treat her as well as I did. I actually have seen my sex rank rise and she has noticed too. I've been working on me and it's become obvious to everyone.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Tron said:


> The sooner she has to face reality the better. Give her a deadline and stick to it. It will put an end to her cake-eating, force her to respect you, and maybe clear out the fog that much sooner.
> 
> And WIK may be right, a R or false R attempt may be on the horizon when she realizes that life without money, without the support of her XH or OM is not going to be very pleasant.


I know I didn't make this as hard on her as I could have. My goal was to get the best D results possible (which I got) and not an R. That's why I let her stay in fantasyland for as long as possible which sucked emotionally for me. I already told her in no uncertain terms that I will not allow her to live with me while she maintains contact with the OM (she actually suggested we be roommates at one point). I don't want that toxic drama around me anymore. Having her move out is the final step and if I don't see serious effort from her in finding an apartment soon, I will give her a deadline. I know the only way I can heal is if I move on.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

turnera said:


> Say what? He hasn't been able to earn enough money to afford his own place...in FIVE YEARS?
> 
> Sounds like a certain woman has blinders on. Or else likes it this way.


He works contruction, "under the table". Just got his drivers license back after a 17 year revolk. My XW isn't much better.

The both drink, smoke weed and gamble. It's a dual, slow-motion trainwreck that just hasn't run out of rail cars yet.

Misery enjoys company I guess...


----------



## harrybrown

I am glad that you got the favorable divorce, if one can ever call any divorce favorable. If she does not find a place soon, tell her that in order to stay, she has to pay rent or get a job that is not with the OM. This is too much for you to have to deal with anymore. 

And I would go out if she is still there. You do not have to date if you do not want to, but at least go out with friends, so she can see you having some good in your life. Your children need you to be in a good situation in your head because this is a big change for them as well.


----------



## bandit.45

He can't tell her who she can and cannot be around anymore. He's not her husband. 

What he can do is give her a proper eviction date and make it formal and in writing. 

Then he needs to get a life outside the house and kids. He needs to completely detach from her emotionally, to the point where if he saw her get run over by a stock trailer he would jump up and run over to make sure the cattle weren't injured.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## livinfree

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> He works contruction, "under the table". Just got his drivers license back after a 17 year revolk. My XW isn't much better.
> 
> The both drink, smoke weed and gamble. It's a dual, slow-motion trainwreck that just hasn't run out of rail cars yet.
> 
> Misery enjoys company I guess...


LOL - sounds just like my ex and OM !


----------



## dymo

Congratulations on the divorce!

Do the kids know? How have they handled it?


----------



## Chaparral

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't know, to be honest. It would purely be for spite at this point....
> 
> She claims she reports to a new supervisor now which I believe. (Back story is rumors started circulating around the office when word of the D got out so she was moved descretely by upper mgmt). I could try to make her life more miserable but her having no job is not going to get her out of my house and my life any faster. We're D now so I keep asking myself "what does it really matter?" She going to do whatever she wants and I need to stop caring what she does.


He seduced your, destroyed your childrens family, and you think outing him is spite. You need to read MMSLP before you even think about approaching another woman. They deserve better.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> He seduced your, destroyed your childrens family, and you think outing him is spite. You need to read MMSLP before you even think about approaching another woman. They deserve better.


I have to agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## moto164

Good job on the divorce.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chaparral said:


> He seduced your, destroyed your childrens family, and you think outing him is spite. You need to read MMSLP before you even think about approaching another woman. They deserve better.


Getting HER fired would be out of spite. I would of done it day 1 if it only affected the POS. They would both be canned. So AGAIN, how will her being unemployed get her out of my house any faster???? It's easy to peddle all this alpha crap when I'm the one who has to deal with the reprecussions. 

I didn't get a 30 day divorce, on excellent terms, by being a hot head. I played a calculated game and won.


----------



## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> Getting HER fired would be out of spite. I would of done it day 1 if it only affected the POS. They would both be canned. So AGAIN, how will her being unemployed get her out of my house any faster???? It's easy to peddle all this alpha crap when I'm the one who has to deal with the reprecussions.
> 
> I didn't get a 30 day divorce, on excellent terms, by being a hot head. I played a calculated game and won.


I agree with your approach. 

There are those on this forum who can't get some things through their heads. 

Leave your wife's work alone. Family and friends know what she did and she needs to deal with it. As for the OM, his day is coming. One day he's going to mess around with the wrong woman and end up dead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

dymo said:


> Congratulations on the divorce!
> 
> Do the kids know? How have they handled it?


Thank you. They don't know yet... When she finds an apartment we will sit them down and try to explain to them the new living situation. We figured why upset them now when it could take months for her to find a decent place based on her low income? 

That will definitely be the worst part of all of this...


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Thank you. They don't know yet... When she finds an apartment we will sit them down and try to explain to them the new living situation. We figured why upset them now when it could take months for her to find a decent place based on her low income?
> 
> That will definitely be the worst part of all of this...


 My d adapted pretty fast although she was 12 at the time I think yours are younger right? I hope the pos is under a microscope at work and slips up ugh.


----------



## bandit.45

Be that as it may, I do agree with the others that you need to do some serious work on yourself when it comes to standing up for yourself and defending your boundaries. I don't subscribe to alot of this Alpha male / Beta male stuff, but some of the theories I think have merit. 

Things ended up good for you through luck and serendipity mostly, and because your ex was wanting out of the marriage and was giving you what you wanted, and not because you showed alot of spine. 

You need to develope some grit, and MMSLP and No More Mr. Nice Guy are good places to start to get some ideas on how not to be a milqetoast during your future relationships.


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> Things ended up good for you through luck and serendipity mostly, and because your ex was wanting out of the marriage and was giving you what you wanted, and not because you showed alot of spine.


If she wanted out of the marriage she wouldn't of had the affair. She didn't want the D. She wanted to be a cake eater and still does. She gave me everything I wanted so I had no reason to throw her under the bus, that doesn't mean for a second I didn't have the will to nuke her and the POS to HR. I also exposed to the OMW which otherwise could have put me in a worse position. I could of done nothing and played it safe. That would of been the smart move.

Now that it's over, nuking to HR still does nothing for me unless I wanted to save the marriage. All it does is makes it harder for her to leave my house and puts me at risk down the road for her to lawyer up and try to get child support at a later date when she realizes how broke she is. Until they are 18, she can continue to petition the court for it and I'll have to deal with that nonsense and for what??? 5 minutes of gratification? That would imply I still care and if I was truely want to be detached then I shouldn't.


----------



## tom67

I like what one of our clients policy is. It's total non fraternization. I think this pos will get sloppy and get his arse in a ringer.


----------



## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> *If she wanted out of the marriage she wouldn't of had the affair. She didn't want the D. She wanted to be a cake eater and still does.* She gave me everything I wanted so I had no reason to throw her under the bus, that doesn't mean for a second I didn't have the will to nuke her and the POS to HR. I also exposed to the OMW which otherwise could have put me in a worse position. I could of done nothing and played it safe. That would of been the smart move.
> 
> *But why did she give you everything you wanted? Why? That makes no sense. Why would a cake eater give away the cake? Was she that desperate to save the OM's rep? This is the mystery you need to get to the bottom to. *
> 
> Now that it's over, nuking to HR still does nothing for me unless I wanted to save the marriage. All it does is makes it harder for her to leave my house and puts me at risk down the road for her to lawyer up and try to get child support at a later date when she realizes how broke she is. Until they are 18, she can continue to petition the court for it and I'll have to deal with that nonsense and for what??? 5 minutes of gratification? That would imply I still care and if I was truely want to be detached then I shouldn't.
> 
> *I agree with you on this*.


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> But why did she give you everything you wanted? Why? That makes no sense. Why would a cake eater give away the cake? Was she that desperate to save the OM's rep? This is the mystery you need to get to the bottom to.


It wasn't because of any threat I made about exposing the OM because it never really got that far. She didn't want a legal battle she couldn't afford and she knew I would fight. She knew she was in the wrong and maybe just maybe she felt a tiny bit of guilt. She's also a little too naive which is why she believed the POSOM's crap in the first place. 

There's no one reason and honestly I got what I wanted so who cares?


----------



## moto164

Let the OM think your thinking about exposing. 
Let him squirm awhile.


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> It wasn't because of any threat I made about exposing the OM because it never really got that far. She didn't want a legal battle she couldn't afford and she knew I would fight. She knew she was in the wrong and maybe just maybe she felt a tiny bit of guilt. She's also a little too naive which is why she believed the POSOM's crap in the first place.
> 
> There's no one reason and honestly I got what I wanted so who cares?


When you are ready hit match.com and start dating nothing serious but fun.


----------



## happyman64

BD
You did great. The best you could with the cards you were dealt.

Can I make one suggestion.

Push your wife out. Gently.

I agree she needs to get a safe place so give her some suggestions.

Your wife needs to learn what she lost the hard way.

And she will.

Continue to work on you. Get back in the saddle when you are ready.

And never look over your shoulder, only in front of you.

Good Luck
HM64


----------



## Hardtohandle

livinfree said:


> LOL - sounds just like my ex and OM !


Same here for that quote.

I went the same route as BD did.. But I was weaker in the beginning. 

I'm glad things went great for you..


----------



## RyanBingham

BetrayedDad said:


> It wasn't because of any threat I made about exposing the OM because it never really got that far. She didn't want a legal battle she couldn't afford and she knew I would fight. She knew she was in the wrong and maybe just maybe she felt a tiny bit of guilt. She's also a little too naive which is why she believed the POSOM's crap in the first place.
> 
> There's no one reason and honestly I got what I wanted so who cares?


You done good. Great advice about setting a deadline and getting her a place out of your immediate life but safe enough for your kids. Hell, why not help her find some place to accelerate her exit. I'm aligned with your thoughts - you won. It's time to move on, but you can't do that's while she still under your roof rent free. Show her the door - even if you have to gently push her out.


----------



## tom67

RyanBingham said:


> You done good. Great advice about setting a deadline and getting her a place out of your immediate life but safe enough for your kids. Hell, why not help her find some place to accelerate her exit. I'm aligned with your thoughts - you won. It's time to move on, but you can't do that's while she still under your roof rent free. Show her the door - even if you have to gently push her out.


If you can give her some $$$ for the security deposit. The sooner the better jmo.


----------



## LongWalk

BD, you had no choice. There was post a ways back that was striking:



> Update: My WS sucks. She just sucks. We were having a pretty civil week. Everything was going fairly nicely between us considering the circumstances. She was telling me how the OM was going to work things out with his wife. How she KNOWS he's not leaving her. How she was coming out of the fog and seeing his true colors. How she realized she made a mistake having this affair.
> 
> Anyway, we were planning to take the kids out for dinner after work. So I called to confirm with her before she left. She wasn't there. Come to find out she left work early to go screw the OM in the parking lot. *She was actually going to do this and then come to dinner with us like nothing ever happened.* I mean.... WTF???
> 
> We're still getting divorced obviously but it still bothers me. Where is this woman's conscious? or guilt? or shame? My god..


Obviously you had her email/phone texting cracked and she never caught on. You must have seemed like the wizard of her emotions. There is a better than 50/50 chance that after she moves out or after she has the first failed post POSOM new OM, she is going to look at you cry and with enormous sadness want you back with all her soul.

This is especially likely if you have begun dating. You are not going to R now, not post D. If you were cruel you'd sleep with her and then get up and tell her that it meant nothing, that you just wanted a last scréw. But you're not that kind of person.

Now you have to hope she can pull herself together for the sake of your kids.

The selfish genes really are selfish, they experiment with us in a gamble to improve their odds of being multipled and if it does not work, well, your genes don't care. They have a plan for a brain, but they don't have one. 

Is your wife aging quickly and losing her looks due to stress?


----------



## lewmin

I remember mentioning to you (as others had) that once you exposed the other man he will throw your wife under a bus immediately. Well in this novel, that's what he likely told his own wife...that he no longer has contact with your ex. He probably did not even tell his own wife that your ex is now divorced. So exposure works best when the OM pays the consequences. He barely has. He and his own wife are in false R, although his wife thinks its real R. I think you still owe it to the other wife to show all this proof that you seem to have that this affair has continued, and that she is being completely "hoodwinked". Wouldn't you want to know if the situation was reversed?

Congrats on the quickie divorce but I'd give her until the end of October to move out so you can move forward.


----------



## HappyHubby

How is it that with 50/50 custody she can still petition the court for child support? Why? Because p-enis? Because she has va-gina?

I thought there were such things as human rights... guess not if you are a man. Did you know that out of CONTESTED custody issues, the woman is granted sole custody in 90% of cases. That is nothing other than a sexist, systemic, misandric human rights violation. 

Visit A Voice for Men dot com for a different perspective than the feminist/gynocentric bull**** that permeates our society. These laws need to be changed. Men (and the women who love them) need to stand up and fight this system.


----------



## BetrayedDad

HappyHubby said:


> How is it that with 50/50 custody she can still petition the court for child support?


Because I make more money than her. 50/50 custody doesn't automatically let me off the hook (I thought it would too) because they take into account the kids quality of living under her roof too.


----------



## BetrayedDad

lewmin said:


> I remember mentioning to you (as others had) that once you exposed the other man he will throw your wife under a bus immediately. Well in this novel, that's what he likely told his own wife...that he no longer has contact with your ex. He probably did not even tell his own wife that your ex is now divorced. So exposure works best when the OM pays the consequences. He barely has. He and his own wife are in false R, although his wife thinks its real R. I think you still owe it to the other wife to show all this proof that you seem to have that this affair has continued, and that she is being completely "hoodwinked". Wouldn't you want to know if the situation was reversed?
> 
> Congrats on the quickie divorce but I'd give her until the end of October to move out so you can move forward.


Funny you mention that. Your narrative was almost completely spot on until last Thursday when the OMW hacked the OM's iphone and retrieved the deleted messages between him and my WS. Then OMW tossed him out of the house. Didn't think she had it in her but I guess her eyes are open now. She also sent me an email telling me they were still in contact. (I already knew but it was nice she told me.) This also had the added bonus of infuriating my WS because OM was telling her that he and his wife were over when clearly they were not. So now she feels betrayed too because she trusted the OM. 

Welcome to my world b!tch....


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Funny you mention that. Your narrative was almost completely spot on until last Thursday when the OMW hacked the OM's iphone and retrieved the deleted messages between him and my WS. Then OMW tossed him out of the house. Didn't think she had it in her but I guess her eyes are open now. She also sent me an email telling me they were still in contact. (I already knew but it was nice she told me.) This also had the bonus effect of infuriating my WS because OM was telling her that he and his wife were over when clearly they were not. So now she feels betrayed too because she trusted the OM.
> 
> Welcome to my world b!tch....


Good I hope she gets a shark lawyer takes him to the cleaners. the only bad thing is him moving in with your ex. Karma is a b!tch.


----------



## HappyHubby

BetrayedDad said:


> Because I make more money than her. 50/50 custody doesn't automatically let me off the hook (I thought it would too) because they take into account the kids quality of living under her roof too.


I haven't heard of a situation where this has been the case with the sexes reversed... Ive heard plenty from across the western world where the man is living in a shack of an apartment,paying more than he can afford in support, while the wife maintains the luxurious marriage home and standard of living. Maybe its worse in Canada... where I am. Here, their belief is that the children should not experience a reduction in standard of living post divorcce... which is ludicrous. Even if the man loses his job (if he were married, the kids would experience some hardship and adjustment) the courts dont care and support payments remain the same, if post-divorce. Quite insane. Google Dave Foley divorce.


----------



## HappyHubby

Anyway, don't want to derail your thread. Im glad everything worked out for you divorce-wise. Wish you all the best in getting your wife out and detaching from her B.S. A stable, selfless and compatible woman awaits you. Keep trying to focus on the positives to come.


----------



## MarriedTex

Set long-term deadline that suits your purposes. I would suggest the first Monday the kids go back to school after Christmas break.

This way, you will not have the issue of "splitting the holidays" with the kids. Also removes headaches of how to get them taken care of during holiday vacations.

At the same time, it gives you a date certain for her departure that makes you look like you're giving her plenty of chance to get her stuff together. Best of luck.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Update: Me and the OMW have been swapping emails fairly regularly. The OM has attempted false R with the OWM three times now and all have failed after she hacked his iPhone each time. She's pretty fed up with him and seems to be done. OM and my WS are still texting each other up last Friday. The wife claims they kissed a few times but have not been intimate in over a month.

While divorced, my WS still resides with me. She applied to a few apartments but they fell through. This past weekend she begged me for a reconcilation. She said she continued to contact the OM because she didn't want to be alone. This is the first time she has tried to save our relationship since D-Day two months ago. I think she has finally realized she was used. There has been a huge change in her persona over the last month as more and more crap has come out. I'm not sure what to do anymore...

What would of been my 8th year wedding anniversary recently passed.

Fuuny side note. I guess the OMW found a bottle of Cialis in the OM's truck. I guess neither one knew about his erectile dysfunction. What a winner she picked.


----------



## Ovid

BetrayedDad said:


> OM and my WS are still texting each other up last Friday. The wife claims they kissed a few times but have not been intimate in over a month.
> 
> *Did you believe her?*
> 
> While divorced, my WS still resides with me. She applied to a few apartments but they fell through. This past weekend she begged me for a reconcilation. She said she continued to contact the OM because she didn't want to be alone. This is the first time she has done this since D-Day two months ago. I think she has finally realized she was used.
> 
> *What if she wasn't being used? Would she want R then? Don't be plan B. Sorry but it sounds like she is figuring out how bad this is, and not really into getting you back.*
> 
> Fuuny side note. I guess the OMW found a bottle of Cialis in the OM's truck. I guess neither one knew about his erectile dysfunction. What a winner she picked.
> 
> *He may need it due to the amount of sex he's having.*


----------



## turnera

Your ex needs to learn to be ok being alone. Until she is, she will never be marriage material. Don't even consider it.


----------



## BK23

Kick her cheating @ss out of your home already! The hard part is past. You have no responsibility to enable her while she stomps all over your self-respect.


----------



## arbitrator

BetrayedDad said:


> They'll know it was me... Unless I wait until the divorce is over but that could take 3-4 months.


*So what's 3 to 4 months? Just get the D over with, and then you can go at her, as well as her boss, baring all of your fangs!*


----------



## BetrayedDad

Ovid said:


> Do you believe her?


Yeah, I do. I've been tracking her pretty well. Though she admits she did sleep with him once after I found out about the affair.



Ovid said:


> What if she wasn't being used? Would she want R then? Don't be plan B. Sorry but it sounds like she is figuring out how bad this is, and not really into getting you back.


If she wasn't being used then she would of left me for him. I know this. She bought into his act.



Ovid said:


> He may need it due to the amount of sex he's having.


I've either had sex or masturbated almost daily since I was a teen and have never needed help getting it up. Maybe it's karma LOL?


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> Your ex needs to learn to be ok being alone. Until she is, she will never be marriage material. Don't even consider it.


She literally CAN'T be alone. She's had a boyfriend since she started dating. She has a lot of psychological issues (father abandonment, mom's nuts and has been married 4 times, etc.). Not excusing her just explaining why she thinks she can't be on her own.

I told her I would consider it but make no promises (I know I'm stupid). As much as I hate what she did to me. I really feel sorry for her. I really think she was stupid enough to be blinded by this fantasy world they created. No tells you how pathetic the WS becomes when the fog lifts. It's hard to watch.


----------



## Ovid

BetrayedDad said:


> I've either had sex or masturbated almost daily since I was a teen and have never needed help getting it up. Maybe it's karma LOL?


I hope it's Karma.

If I have sex 3 times a day, after about 2 weeks Mr Happy starts giving me trouble...

Factor age, health, and hormone levels. Then consider he may have more than one OW, and may have been HB with his BS to boot.


----------



## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> She literally CAN'T be alone. She's had a boyfriend since she started dating. She has a lot of psychology issues (father abandonment, mom's nuts and has been married 4 times, etc.). Not excusing her just explaining why she thinks she can't be on her own.
> 
> I told her I would consider it but make no promises (I know I'm stupid). As much as I hate what she did to me. I really feel sorry for her. I really think she was stupid enough to be blinded by this fantasy world they created. No tells you how pathetic the WS becomes when the fog lifts. It's hard to watch.


What is going to prevent her from doing this again once the shock and raw emotions wear off? What has she done to change her preceptions so that some other lothario doesn't come along and sweep her off her feet again?


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> She literally CAN'T be alone.


I'm aware. That's why I'm saying DO NOT consider it. She is broken. Until she CAN be alone, she will feed off of you and every other guy who looks her way.


----------



## BetrayedDad

bfree said:


> What is going to prevent her from doing this again once the shock and raw emotions wear off? What has she done to change her preceptions so that some other lothario doesn't come along and sweep her off her feet again?


That's what I KEEP asking myself... How do you answer that? 

For the moment anyway, she seems genuine but it was only this weekend that I could actually start to see a noticable change in her.

And if it she WAS sincere how do I forgive being used as plan B? Just because plan A turned out to be a lie, now she's realizes what a wonderful man I am?


----------



## turnera

No, she sees what great money you bring her and how you keep her from having to sleep alone.


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> She is broken.


Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. 

I want to help her but I know I'm an idiot if I do.


----------



## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> That's what I KEEP asking myself... How do you answer that?
> 
> For the moment anyway, she seems genuine but it was only this weekend that I could actually start to see a noticable change in her.
> 
> And if it she WAS sincere how do I forgive being used as plan B? Just because plan A turned out to be a lie, now she's realizes what a wonderful man I am?


So she has not done anything to address her issues? Has she gone to counseling? I would not consider reinvesting in her until she learns to invest in herself.


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> No, she sees what great money you bring her and how you keep her from having to sleep alone.


As sad as that is, my guts tells me you're right. 

I WANT to believe she realized that she loves me but I can't help feeling like she just realizes I'm just a better option now that she sees the OM is just a turd in a pretty wrapping.


----------



## BetrayedDad

bfree said:


> So she has not done anything to address her issues? Has she gone to counseling? I would not consider reinvesting in her until she learns to invest in herself.


She's addressing them NOW. After two months of carrying on with him after D-Day. She's actively looking for a job. She's going to get a new counselor (the one she has sucks). 

I just don't know even if she does EVERYTHING I ask (and she seems willing now) whether that is enough?


----------



## BK23

At the very least you need her out of your house before you decide either way. Her presence is definitely inhibiting your progress.


----------



## movin on

Your her back up plan.thats all you need to know.
Get her out of the house. That's what you need to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
> 
> I want to help her but I know I'm an idiot if I do.


Here's the rub. 

You HELP her by NOT helping her. 

As long as you are her crutch to soothe her, she never has to look at herself.

My IC told me to stop propping my DH up and he'd eventually do one of two things: learn to stand on his own two feet (fix himself) or fall flat on his face. And from THERE, he'll find a need to stand on his own two feet. She said it will NEVER happen as long as I continue to make life easy for him in a misguided attempt to 'help' him.


----------



## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> She's addressing them NOW. After two months of carrying on with him after D-Day. She's actively looking for a job. She's going to get a new counselor (the one she has sucks).
> 
> I just don't know even if she does EVERYTHING I ask (and she seems willing now) whether that is enough?


You shouldn't have to ask. She should be working on herself not for you but because she knows she needs to for herself. If she is that disgusted with herself for what she has done then shouldn't she want to make sure she builds better boundaries whether she is with you or not? Until she wants to become a better person for herself anything she does will be just window dressing for your benefit and not a true growth period.


----------



## harrybrown

If you had an affair like she did, would she forgive you?

Has she stopped contacting the OM? Has she given you a written timeline and diary of the affair? Has she sent him a NC letter?

Has she been tested for stds? She did wonderful things for the OM and spent a lot of energy for him. What has she done for you?

Nothing but cheat on you and treat you like your feelings never mattered. She does not love you and is selfish.

You are divorced. I think you should have her run to someplace else. She is not remorseful and thinking about you. She is still selfish and thinking about her.

She will cheat again. If you do let her stay, do not get married again. Have her sign a contract that if she cheats there are punishments for her. She could never ask for child support, alimony or custody of the children. She would have to give up her share of the custody. 

There are many women who would be better for you than your ex wife. 

I hope you think hard about taking her back. She really did not care that you found out, she kept cheating. 

I do hope someday you find a woman to love you like you deserve.


----------



## bandit.45

Let her live there but don't engage her. Give it some time. Start dressing nice and going out while she stays home with the kids. Date a few women and don't hide you are doing so. Let her feel what it is like to be rejected. She will either break down and beg your forgiveness or she will go out and throw her legs up for another guy. Put a key logger on the computer and I'll bet you'll find he posting on dating sights.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

harrybrown said:


> If you had an affair like she did, would she forgive you?
> 
> Has she stopped contacting the OM? Has she given you a written timeline and diary of the affair? Has she sent him a NC letter?
> 
> Has she been tested for stds? She did wonderful things for the OM and spent a lot of energy for him. What has she done for you?
> 
> Nothing but cheat on you and treat you like your feelings never mattered. She does not love you and is selfish.
> 
> You are divorced. I think you should have her run to someplace else. *She is not remorseful and thinking about you. She is still selfish and thinking about her.*
> 
> She will cheat again. If you do let her stay, do not get married again. Have her sign a contract that if she cheats there are punishments for her. She could never ask for child support, alimony or custody of the children. She would have to give up her share of the custody.
> 
> There are many women who would be better for you than your ex wife.
> 
> I hope you think hard about taking her back. She really did not care that you found out, she kept cheating.
> 
> I do hope someday you find a woman to love you like you deserve.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## tainted

You are divorced. So why is she fighting for your relationship now? Seems alittle too late. 

Give her a deadline to find a new place to live and move on. Her problems and issues are not your concern anymore. Focus on yourself and the kids.


----------



## tom67

tainted said:


> You are divorced. So why is she fighting for your relationship now? Seems alittle too late.
> 
> Give her a deadline to find a new place to live and move on. Her problems and issues are not your concern anymore. Focus on yourself and the kids.


Too little too late plus did she get an std test?

Now I'm only kidding,sort of, is the other guy's wife hot?

She sounds like a better catch just sayin.


----------



## barbados

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
> 
> *I want to help her but I know I'm an idiot if I do.*


Please Please Please listen to your own words here !! She only asks for R now because she can't find a place to live and doesn't want to be alone. So you will simply be a Plan B for her until she cheats on you again. AND SHE WILL BECAUSE SHE IS BROKEN !

You deserve a mentally stable, mature, responsible woman in your life.


----------



## walkonmars

Get her out. 

If you have to, float a loan so she can get the first and last months paid on a suitable apt - and tell her you'll make the first two payments on the loan. (eat it if you have to but get her out - it'll be money well spent).


----------



## tom67

PM a guy named southsideirish his wife was abused as a kid.

His thread is in the private section.


----------



## dymo

Don't let her attempts to reconcile slow down the process of moving her out.


----------



## LongWalk

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: My WS sucks. She just sucks. We were having a pretty civil week. Everything was going fairly nicely between us considering the circumstances. She was telling me how the OM was going to work things out with his wife. How she KNOWS he's not leaving her. How she was coming out of the fog and seeing his true colors. How she realized she made a mistake having this affair.
> 
> Anyway, we were planning to take the kids out for dinner after work. So I called to confirm with her before she left. She wasn't there. Come to find out she left work early to go screw the OM in the parking lot. She was actually going to do this and then come to dinner with us like nothing ever happened. I mean.... WTF???
> 
> We're still getting divorced obviously but it still bothers me. Where is this woman's conscious? or guilt? or shame? My god...


Did you every confront her over this?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

BetrayedDad said:


> She's addressing them NOW. After two months of carrying on with him after D-Day. She's actively looking for a job. She's going to get a new counselor (the one she has sucks).
> 
> I just don't know even if she does EVERYTHING I ask (and she seems willing now) whether that is enough?


What does being in a relationship with your ex-wife have in common with beating yourself in the hand with a hammer?...

It feels so good when it stops.


If you're serious about being with her again, I suggest a chastity belt and a GPS implant in her skull.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> Did you every confront her over this?


Yes, she still to this day stubbornly denies they did anything other than kiss and hug. Maybe my calling when she was in the parking lot spoiled the mood that day? I do know her intent was to have sex with him. She denies that too but says that was probably his assumption. So who knows what ended up happening? Assuming they did sleep together, I'm fairly certain that was the last sexual encounter they had (and I have evidence to support this) and that was six weeks ago. However, up until last week the EA portion was still going on. That has since stopped on Sunday when she finally asked me for reconciliation.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BK23 said:


> At the very least you need her out of your house before you decide either way. Her presence is definitely inhibiting your progress.


I agree. I actually feel better when she's not around. It's just going to be ugly getting her out because we're going to have to explain it to the kids. So I'm not exactly in a super rush to break my kids hearts.


----------



## BetrayedDad

tainted said:


> You are divorced. So why is she fighting for your relationship now? Seems alittle too late.


Right? I guess she found out too late he was a turd. I would of gotten the divorce no matter what. She already used our marriage license as toilet paper so if she wants to try to fix it then she will have to start from scratch. And everytime she has to tell people why she got divorced she can be constantly reminded why she's a POS and how she took what she had for granted.


----------



## LongWalk

Kissing and hugging count as infidelity. Kissing hugging are code words for something else, usually.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## BetrayedDad

harrybrown said:


> I hope you think hard about taking her back. She really did not care that you found out, she kept cheating.
> 
> I do hope someday you find a woman to love you like you deserve.


I am thinking hard. That's why I'm in limbo. Thanks for your support. I don't disagree with anything you said. You're spot on.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> Kissing and hugging count as infidelity. Kissing hugging are code words for something else, usually.


So does continuing an EA in my opinion. And I know it used as code but let's just say he has been complaining about how long it's been since they last slept together so I know it's been at least that long roughly.


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> Yes, she still to this day stubbornly denies they did anything other than kiss and hug. Maybe my calling when she was in the parking lot spoiled the mood that day? I do know her intent was to have sex with him. She denies that too but says that was probably his assumption. So who knows what ended up happening? Assuming they did sleep together, I'm fairly certain that was the last sexual encounter they had (and I have evidence to support this) and that was six weeks ago. However, up until last week the EA portion was still going on. That has since stopped on Sunday when she finally asked me for reconciliation.


Do you realize how ridiculous that you are arguing this or should someone explain it to you ? 

So she wants you now that the guy she was cheating with dumped her. Have some self respect. You deserve better..How can you love someone else if you cannot love yourself.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Her "new" position now is I was never plan B. That it wasn't serious with him and she was just having a selfish fling. That the "being together soon" texts were just fantasy talk. Based on everything I have discovered, I really don't buy it and I'm kind of upset she would try to go this route to downplay the affair. I mean is that REALLY supposed to make me feel better? You still f***ed the guy multiple times didn't you?


----------



## warlock07

That has since stopped on Sunday when she finally asked me for reconciliation.


Is she monkey jumping from one branch to another. FFS, she cannot not be in a relationship for a while ?


----------



## BetrayedDad

warlock07 said:


> So she wants you now that the guy she was cheating with dumped her. Have some self respect. You deserve better..How can you love someone else if you cannot love yourself.


He never really "dumped" her rather than give lame excuse why he can't leave his wife. So basically she realizes OM was playing her and the OMW. Either way point taken.


----------



## BetrayedDad

warlock07 said:


> Is she monkey jumping from one branch to another. FFS, she cannot not be in a relationship for a while ?


No. She cannot. As I already stated, she can't be alone. 

Obviously she has issues... Most people who have affairs do.


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> Her "new" position now is I was never plan B. That it wasn't serious with him and she was just having a selfish fling. That the "being together soon" texts were just fantasy talk. Based on everything I have discovered, I really don't buy it and I'm kind of upset she would try to go this route to downplay the affair. I mean is that REALLY supposed to make me feel better? You still f***ed the guy multiple times didn't you?



Your wife is really getting on my nerves with her lies.... And I don't even know her. If this really true, she is much worse that if she really planned to leave you. Think about it. 

All this pain to you and the kids, just because she wanted to have a selfish fling. How can you ever trust a person like that again ? How often will she have these entitled "urges"..

Don't believe a word she says. She is telling what comes to her at that point of argument to get back with you. If you end it with her once and for all, she will be back to dating some other new guy in a couple of weeks.

Even then, her motivation does not seem to be love for you. It is desperation and worry about losing both her husband and lover at one go. Or it is to spite her OM who is reconciling with his wife.


----------



## warlock07

Why are still talking about reconciliation with her


----------



## tom67

Tell her you will see if you can fit her in because you are dating someone else now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

warlock07 said:


> Why are still talking about reconciliation with her


Honestly?

Cause I'm stupid, feel sorry for her and afraid to be alone...

I told her we are not back together, I need to decide if I want to work it out and in the mean time you can stay while you try to better yourself.

That's why I'm here. I don't want to see her go but I need to either have some self-respect for myself or accept that I am a doormat. And I WANT to believe that I am not a doormat.


----------



## walkonmars

BetrayedDad said:


> *Her "new" position now is I was never plan B. That it wasn't serious with him and she was just having a selfish fling. That the "being together soon" texts were just fantasy talk.* Based on everything I have discovered, I really don't buy it and I'm kind of upset she would try to go this route to downplay the affair. I mean is that REALLY supposed to make me feel better? You still f***ed the guy multiple times didn't you?


Well, that says it all. She thinks you're an idiot who will eventually come to believe whatever she says. 

The reality is that is that she's the idiot who believed the POSOM.


----------



## BK23

I'll say it again. Get her out of your house.

Take some time to yourself. Take some time to play the field. Get a sense of what life is without her. It might be a whole lot better than you think.


----------



## BetrayedDad

walkonmars said:


> The reality is that is that she's the idiot who believed the POSOM.


Exactly. She trusted him completely... This was not a fantasy to her.


----------



## Ovid

To help you. Tell her if she want's R she has to prove she really wants only you and that you are not Plan B. Give her whatever tasks it is you need to consider R. Be clear that if she does it all it's the only way you will consider R. Then give her a list of hard tasks that she would have to do. They should include full and complete timeline plus poly. I'm willing to bet she doesn't do them, unless you softball her.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BK23 said:


> I'll say it again. Get her out of your house.
> 
> Take some time to yourself. Take some time to play the field. Get a sense of what life is without her. It might be a whole lot better than you think.


I want to do this. See how it goes. If she REALLY still loves me then she would wait for me wouldn't she?

At the end of the day:

Do I hate her for what she did to me? Yes
Do I think she is a selfish POS? Yes
Do I still enjoy her companionship? Yes
Would I still have been happy with our relationship had she not done this? Yes
Is she a good mom and does she have other good qualities? Yes

I'm pretty torn up. It's like putting a dog you love to sleep.


----------



## warlock07

> Exactly. She trusted him completely... This was not a fantasy to her.


The OM did not take advantage of her, they fed off one another. It was symbiotic.

Don't fall into the trap of blaming the OM for what she did.



> If she REALLY still loves me then she would wait for me wouldn't she?


?? Read your own thread again.

If she loved you, she wouldn't have had the affair. 

If she respected you as a person, she would have the decency of ending the marriage before she started ****ing another guy ?

And she would probably wait a few months to even ask you back..Not the day she ended her affair with him.

How do you expect things to even change if you keep enabling her get away/and explain away everything she did. You know she is lying. And by accepting her lies, you are not allowing her to change or motivate herself to make some major changes to her selfish mentality. 

How long do you think she will wait for you if tell her there will be no R ? There is poster here called Rookie, who left his cheating wife. Once he left her, she ended the affair and worked on herself. She waited for him for 2 years to get him back. She was single all this time waiting for him. How long do you see her waiting for you ?

Do you see her doing what you need her to do ? She even cannot stop lying about it. Can she give you a timeline ? And tell you something you cannot verify ?

Can she give you complete transparency moving forward ? How do you know they wouldn't contact one another in the future ?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/109673-just-found-out-about-my-wife-cheating.html

Read this thread if you haven't already.


----------



## Nucking Futs

BetrayedDad said:


> I want to do this. See how it goes. If she REALLY still loves me then she would wait for me wouldn't she?
> 
> At the end of the day:
> 
> Do I hate her for what she did to me? Yes
> Do I think she is a selfish POS? Yes
> Do I still enjoy her companionship? Yes
> Would I still have been happy with our relationship had she not done this? Yes
> Is she a good mom and does she have other good qualities? Yes
> 
> I'm pretty torn up. It's like putting a dog you love to sleep.


I'd tell her that you need her to prove that you're not plan b, and the only way for her to do that is to live on her own without dating anyone including you for 1 year. If she can be on her own for a year without sex you'll take her back.

Not that she would pull it off but at least you could feel good about giving her a chance. Oh, and I'd make clear this is a one way street, you're free to date since you have nothing to prove.


----------



## walkonmars

BetrayedDad said:


> It's like putting a dog you love to sleep.


A dog that was once faithful and loving but contracted rabies.


----------



## BetrayedDad

I mentioned a few times her moving out and she proposed that we keep the kids at the my house and just trade off living there every 3-4 days so the kids are not displaced. My mother lives 5 mins away so I could go there my off days and she could go to her sisters. 

Do you think that is making it too easy for her? 

I don't want to confuse the kids either by bouncing them around.


----------



## BK23

BetrayedDad said:


> I mentioned a few times her moving out and she proposed that we keep the kids at the my house and just trade off living there every 3-4 days so the kids are not displaced. My mother lives 5 mins away so I could go there my off days and she could go to her sisters.
> 
> Do you think that is making it too easy for her?
> 
> I don't want to confuse the kids either by bouncing them around.


Kids are much more adaptable and resilient than you think. This time shifting thing might work for a temporary separation, but I don't think it will give you the space you need. You need her 100% out.


----------



## walkonmars

BetrayedDad said:


> I mentioned a few times her moving out and she proposed that we keep the kids at the my house and just trade off living there every 3-4 days so the kids are not displaced. My mother lives 5 mins away so I could go there my off days and she could go to her sisters.
> 
> Do you think that is making it too easy for her?
> 
> I don't want to confuse the kids either by bouncing them around.


Ask your lawyer what the repercussions would be. I have a feeling they wouldn't be good for you in the long run.


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> afraid to be alone...
> 
> in the mean time you can stay while you try to better yourself.
> 
> I need to either have some self-respect for myself or accept that I am a doormat. And I WANT to believe that I am not a doormat.


Newsflash:

You ARE a doormat. Or she would be GONE. Just ask LifeScript.

What, specifically, are you DOING to stop being one?


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> Do I think she is a selfish POS? Yes


Is that what a marriage is supposed to include?

Marrying (remarrying) a selfish POS who will use you, give you only enough to keep you coming back for more crumbs, and probably KEEP cheating on you (since you made it so easy this time)?


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> I mentioned a few times her moving out and she proposed that we keep the kids at the my house and just trade off living there every 3-4 days so the kids are not displaced. My mother lives 5 mins away so I could go there my off days and she could go to her sisters.


FOR 15 YEARS?!

Come on, BD. 

The sooner you break off the sick relationship and show your kids a SAFE, NORMAL homelife with you, the sooner they will adjust and have a better chance at being happy.


----------



## Why Not Be Happy?

No. No. No. Do not make this easy on her! Your kids will have to understand their mother messed up (in time) and that their parents are divorced. It is your home!


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> I mentioned a few times her moving out and she proposed that we keep the kids at the my house and just trade off living there every 3-4 days so the kids are not displaced. My mother lives 5 mins away so I could go there my off days and she could go to her sisters.
> 
> Do you think that is making it too easy for her?
> 
> I don't want to confuse the kids either by bouncing them around.


I think you got divorced for a reason. Don't act like this is a temporary situation and you are working on resolving this. This will also send her the message that you are intending on reconciling. And probably get humiliated again when she ends it for you for being controlling.


----------



## turnera

Have you read LifeScript's thread? It mirrors you. He was in your same limbo for nearly 2 years. He is FINALLY just now mentally breaking free after ignoring our advice because of his doormat status. 

Can you imagine being at this exact same place two years from now because you're too afraid to see life is like out there without her?


----------



## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> I mentioned a few times her moving out and she proposed that we keep the kids at the my house and just trade off living there every 3-4 days so the kids are not displaced. My mother lives 5 mins away so I could go there my off days and she could go to her sisters.
> 
> Do you think that is making it too easy for her?
> 
> I don't want to confuse the kids either by bouncing them around.


And how does this benefit you exactly?

The kids will adapt just fine. What you are suggesting here would confuse them even more. Whose house is it?

Daddy's 

Mommy's 

Ours

Better that they know where daddy's place is and mommy's place is. They can understand where grandma lives and aunty lives right?


----------



## warlock07

BD, not to offend you but this is stupid. Reconciling with a cheating wife because the OM dumped her is foolish and stupid and will end up in only more pain

If you had a chance, it would have been if she ended the affair on her own terms. You would have had the chance if your feelings and hurt were considered at any point during the affair.


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm convinced sooner or later the boss is going to dump my wife anyway. This is not the first subordinate he has hooked up with. My wife has also had an EA in the past so as much as I don't really want to do this, why reconcile? I can't be in a marriage where I don't trust the person and if it wasn't him, it will probably be someone else.


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> I did and she denied oral, going on a trip with him and being at his house. ALL things I know happened...
> 
> She's become very comfortable lying to me. It's quite disturbing.





BetrayedDad said:


> On a random side note....
> 
> Maybe it's a "guy thing" but the worst part about all this is knowing they had sex over the course of months. Thinking about their physical intimacy is what really turns my stomach. That she would reject me, to give him sex. Even in our own bed. Yes, the emotional aspect hurts too but the physical part is what keeps me awake at night....


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> I hear what your saying but at the end of the day this guy is not going to leave his wife. If he did my WS would leave me to be with him (because she is in love with this fantasy, the guy is full of it and she was stupid to believe him). So while I believe she cares about me, essentially, I am plan B. She will be with me only if he rejects her and I can't be in a marriage where I was the second choice. Nor do I want to fight to be number two. After 12 years in a relationship I deserve better than the number 2 slot.


----------



## warlock07

Just reading the thread again. What happened to this guy who had so much clarity ? You were obviously angry but you were also facing reality of the situation back then.

Why did it throw you in such a tailspin when she offered you R ?


----------



## warlock07

I cannot stop quoting them.



BetrayedDad said:


> Well the wife was pissed...
> 
> Made a bunch of serious threats about the house and kids then out of the blue retracted them all. She's now being nicey nicey and since she's a pathological liar I don't know what to believe.
> 
> Assume the worst and hope for the best I guess. She's on her toes now that's for sure. Some of the stuff coming out of her mouth was the coldest, heartless, most uncompassionate I'd ever heard her say in my 12 years with her. She really could give two sh!ts about the feelings of the OMW and her newborn baby.





BetrayedDad said:


> Update: OMW tossed OM out of house but wants to try to work it out in counseling (I guess she's blaming herself). WS seems fairly certain now OM will try to work it out too and is disappointed because I can tell she still has feelings for him. She wants him to herself and I can tell she totally expected this guy to come running into her arms. With all that, pathetically I think she's still barely holding out hope.
> 
> WS was kissing my butt yesterday because she knows plan A (OM) is likely to fail, plan B (me) is divorcing her so she's basically in damage control mode to scoop up whatever man she can. I give her fleeting hope only because I want the silky smooth D to continue but after seeing her true colors I know there is no chance I can ever trust her again.
> 
> How people can reconcile after this is beyond me. I couldn't live with myself knowing I was plan B.





> Bottom line is WS seems content with playing me for a fool (telling me everything I want to hear) while she strings us both along and or looks for other options. I think she's been lying to me so long that she thinks she can continue to do so and I'll be too dumb to realize it. It's become second nature to her. I know she doesn't want to hurt me but in her twisted mind what I don't know won't hurt me. She's just too stupid to realize I do know EXACTLY what's going on.


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> Funny you mention that. Your narrative was almost completely spot on until last Thursday when the OMW hacked the OM's iphone and retrieved the deleted messages between him and my WS. Then OMW tossed him out of the house. Didn't think she had it in her but I guess her eyes are open now. She also sent me an email telling me they were still in contact. (I already knew but it was nice she told me.) This also had the added bonus of infuriating my WS because OM was telling her that he and his wife were over when clearly they were not. So now she feels betrayed too because she trusted the OM.
> 
> Welcome to my world b!tch....



then immediately




BetrayedDad said:


> Update: Me and the OMW have been swapping emails fairly regularly. The OM has attempted false R with the OWM three times now and all have failed after she hacked his iPhone each time. She's pretty fed up with him and seems to be done. OM and my WS are still texting each other up last Friday. The wife claims they kissed a few times but have not been intimate in over a month.
> 
> While divorced, my WS still resides with me. She applied to a few apartments but they fell through. This past weekend she begged me for a reconcilation. She said she continued to contact the OM because she didn't want to be alone. This is the first time she has tried to save our relationship since D-Day two months ago. I think she has finally realized she was used. There has been a huge change in her persona over the last month as more and more crap has come out. I'm not sure what to do anymore...
> 
> What would of been my 8th year wedding anniversary recently passed.
> 
> Fuuny side note. I guess the OMW found a bottle of Cialis in the OM's truck. I guess neither one knew about his erectile dysfunction. What a winner she picked.




Ok, having read the whole thread in one go,you would be an utter utter idiot to even consider R or sharing the house with your WS at this point.


----------



## Anuvia

:banghead: I'm waiting for the next update to be that BD reconciled with his cheating wife


----------



## Anuvia

warlock07 said:


> Why are still talking about reconciliation with her


He can't be alone either.


----------



## Anuvia

BetrayedDad said:


> I mentioned a few times her moving out and she proposed that we keep the kids at the my house and just trade off living there every 3-4 days so the kids are not displaced. My mother lives 5 mins away so I could go there my off days and she could go to her sisters.
> 
> Do you think that is making it too easy for her?
> 
> I don't want to confuse the kids either by bouncing them around.


Jesus Christ man! WTF is wrong with you? Seriously. Why are you allowing her to control you and the situation like that? Why did you even divorce her? Do you have any male friends that are real men that can slap some sense into you? Why are you ignoring all the great advice you're getting here? What kind of lessons are you teaching your kids about self respect and dignity?

No wonder it was so easy for your wife to disrespect you and string you along and run game on you. You're behaving as someone with no self-esteem, no self respect, and no dignity. When you're kids find out the truth the first thing they'll ask is why did you put up with it.

Sorry to be so blunt and direct but you're acting like you have no sense. Your current living arrangement is a train wreck.

Most men would thank their lucky stars for a divorce outcome like the one you got and here you are squandering it.


----------



## turnera

Anuvia said:


> He can't be alone either.


Looks that way.

Dysfunctional people seek out dysfunctional partners.


----------



## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> This past weekend she begged me for a reconcilation. She said she continued to contact the OM because she didn't want to be alone.


please don't do this to yourself you managed the divorce situation perfectly, you were calculated, cold, smart, you had the divorce for all the right reasons, you could see everything objectively at that moment, let me remember you your own words:



BetrayedDad said:


> I'm convinced sooner or later the boss is going to dump my wife anyway. This is not the first subordinate he has hooked up with. My wife has also had an EA in the past so as much as I don't really want to do this, why reconcile? I can't be in a marriage where I don't trust the person and if it wasn't him, it will probably be someone else.


if the you from august hear you opening to the idea of reconcilation, he have kicked your ass, she already knew her boss had an affair in the past with a coworker and still knowing it she willingly entered in a relationship with him, this demostrate that she will accept validation from any men without caring the circunstances.



BetrayedDad said:


> We were never the same after her first EA 6 years ago. So no, the marriage was far from perfect but maybe if she put half the effort into fixing it as she does now sneaking around behind my back then maybe I would not have to divorce her.
> 
> If she was SO unhappy with me why didn't she just do the honorable thing and leave me? Then she could have f***ed whomever she wanted and I could of cared less. Instead for the last six months she has been betraying our vows, lying to my face and making me feel guilty for even questioning her.


your marriage has not been good and you knew it, she did not appreciated or respected you even when you forgave her for her first affair, so why she want to reconcile now?, she herself told you she want the stability, she does not want you, you and everybody here knows that if the POSOM were serious about her, she right now will be sharing and apartament with him, don't delude yourself nobody deserve to be second best you deserve someone to see in you more than stability.



BetrayedDad said:


> She's addressing them NOW. After two months of carrying on with him after D-Day. She's actively looking for a job. She's going to get a new counselor


she is considering to change now that she lost everything, no lover, and no door-mat, do you think she would be in IC if she were living with POSOM instead of being homeless, broken and divorced?.



BetrayedDad said:


> up until last week the EA portion was still going on. That has since stopped on Sunday when she finally asked me for reconciliation.


do you really think her attachment for him just disappeared in 2 days, she asked reconcilation because she realized the POSOM will not accept her, but remember you quoted that POSOM was fianlly kicket out of his house, and her wife may not want him back now, so he in the future may seek your wife again and convince her as easy as this argument: "I was trying to save mi marriage for my little kid, but now that is impossible i will be honest with my feelings so let's f*ck again"

please please think, if she were right now divorced, but she had kept the house, the kids, a big CS and aly-money check do you think she will be looking for reconcilation, I think you know the answer.



BetrayedDad said:


> I agree. I actually feel better when she's not around.


The reason you are now having second thoughts is because she never left the house and is focusing all her attention in to you, but this is not a honest reaction from her, is born from her interest in not losing everything now that she is powerless, think, why she did not changed like that in her first affair, even when you were hurt and you admit your marriage had changed? why she did not put that effort?, because the feeling does not come from hurting you, it came from the fact that she lost her stability.

do you really want to waste another 5 years, what if the next time the POSOM is in to her and she really move with him? 



BetrayedDad said:


> She literally CAN'T be alone. She's had a boyfriend since she started dating. She has a lot of psychological issues (father abandonment, mom's nuts and has been married 4 times, etc.).


this will also make her seek constant validation from other men she will do it again why will you willingly expose yourself again to this after two different OM.

Let me tell you, now that at her work everybody knows she cheats, more men will hit on her to get in her pants, this is a normal ocurrance, when men know a woman cheats they see her as easy target just by appealing to her ego, you can look information about this in pages like PUA.

finally, man you a such a catch:

- you are a loyal partner
- good father
- you have your own house
- you have a good job
- you are rebuilding yourself

you know how many BS end mentally and financially destroyed after a divorce?. so many BS will dream to be in your position.

you know how many beautiful betrayed women will beg for a chance with a man like you, why will you expose yourself to be betrayed for third time.

Find someone who wants to be with you for what you are, not for the stability you can offer her until something better comes in the picture.

you dont deserve to be third best, no one deserve it.


----------



## dymo

BetrayedDad said:


> I mentioned a few times her moving out and she proposed that we keep the kids at the my house and just trade off living there every 3-4 days so the kids are not displaced. My mother lives 5 mins away so I could go there my off days and she could go to her sisters.
> 
> Do you think that is making it too easy for her?
> 
> I don't want to confuse the kids either by bouncing them around.


No. Just... No.

Jesus Christ! It's like you never divorced at all.


----------



## LongWalk

If the this nesting arrangement is not permanent, it may be tolerable for awhile. But she must contribute more economically.


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> If the this nesting arrangement is not permanent, it may be tolerable for awhile. But she must contribute more economically.


If this nesting arrangement is tolerated for a while it will become permanent.


----------



## BetrayedDad

If I kick her out for 6-12 months, and she really tries to fix herself, stays loyal and waits for me, should I consider her offer of reconciliation then? I know most of you don't think she can do it but if she can?? Or am I a fool for ever taking her back??? I told her again yesterday I don't know if I can be with her. (To her dismay I remind her daily we are not together) She says she will except it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...


----------



## movin on

How many time does your wife have to crap all over you until you see this for what it is?

She wanted him. He dumps her. Now she wants you.
If that's not being her backup plan, what is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## missthelove2013

BetrayedDad said:


> If I kick her out for 6-12 months, and she really tries to fix herself, stays loyal and waits for me, should I consider her offer of reconciliation then? I know most of you don't think she can do it but if she can?? Or am I a fool for ever taking her back??? I told her again yesterday I don't know if I can be with her. (To her dismay I remind her daily we are not together) She says she will except it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...





movin on said:


> How many time does your wife have to crap all over you until you see this for what it is?
> 
> She wanted him. He dumps her. Now she wants you.
> If that's not being her backup plan, what is?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


answered!!!!:smthumbup:

and NO cheating women in the history of cheating women ever admitted "the only reason I am back is the om wont have me...so until I can find another om, or until the "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome hits again, I guess I can still be your wife, give you more sex, whatever"


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> She says she will accept it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...


SAY WHAT?!

What the HELL, BD? You DIVORCED HER. 

She HAS NO SAY in whether she gets to BE with you. You could call the POLICE if you wanted to and kick her out.

She must really LOVE this sick act of sucking up you are doing right now.


----------



## Shaggy

Bd. 

Can you post a quick summary of where things are at. I'm getting old and these long running threads get mixed up in my head.

What I remember...

She had an affair with her married boss
She chose him over you
He dumped her
You are divorcing her
She's now trying to use you as plan B

How many false Rs did you go through ?

Did you expose to his wife?

Did you expose at work?

Is he still her boss?

I'm thinking that you know the answer is to not accept her back for yet another round at abusing your heart.


----------



## Nucking Futs

BetrayedDad said:


> If I kick her out for 6-12 months, and she really tries to fix herself, stays loyal and waits for me, should I consider her offer of reconciliation then? I know most of you don't think she can do it but if she can?? Or am I a fool for ever taking her back??? I told her again yesterday I don't know if I can be with her. (To her dismay I remind her daily we are not together) She says she will except it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...


If she stays loyal for *at least 12 consecutive months* and makes noticeable progress on fixing herself then yes, you should _consider_ reconciliation. But you need to be monitoring her during that time because she's already proven that she's willing and able to lie to your face.

You also need to be dating during that time.


----------



## Shaggy

BetrayedDad said:


> I always was plan B and still am. OM has formally declared he wants to work it out with his wife because of the baby. Of course, he's also more than willing to continue the affair behind her back because well it's free sex and he's a POS. He probably could of kept the OMW oblivious to the affair for a long time. She seemed very out of touch with what goes on with him. Too bad for him I wasn't.
> 
> My WS also wasn't happy with our marriage beforehand (I guess that's obvious since she had an affair) and I don't think that's changed all that much since. At this point, I'm unfortunately her most stable option so she sticks around half-heartedly trying to "figure things out". I'm not getting much effort to save the marriage from her, maybe 60%. I can see she will never do any heavy lifting or whatever it take to try to save our relationship.
> 
> If I begged her to come back I'm all but certain she would but hoinestly why the hell should I? She's the one whose been acting like a POS the last 6 months. She reiterated to me that she feels I moved too quickly to file for divorce and why should she try when it seems like I've, "All ready made up my mind." She wants to buy time and she's really done nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Bottom line is WS seems content with playing me for a fool (telling me everything I want to hear) while she strings us both along and or looks for other options. I think she's been lying to me so long that she thinks she can continue to do so and I'll be too dumb to realize it. It's become second nature to her. I know she doesn't want to hurt me but in her twisted mind what I don't know won't hurt me. She's just too stupid to realize I do know EXACTLY what's going on.



See, you wrote the true answer yourself back a few months ago.

If you won't listen to us, listen to you!


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

So toss her a$$ out for a year! If she works on herself and shows a TRUE interest in winning you back, then you can ponder whether to take her back, or not.

Once on her own, I'm guessing that she will most likely start a looong strings of dating different men. They'll only be interested in sex and she be buying every line of bull, until she get's pumped and dumped. Then she'll find another. OR, she may come around.

It looks like we may never know...

But you want so bad to be her knight in shinning armor, that you can't wait to see if she can really change and actually WANTS to be with you.

You're headed for fall Sir Save-an-ex. Experience is a harsh teacher, but (your name) will learn no other way, I guess.


----------



## VFW

BetrayedDad said:


> If I kick her out for 6-12 months, and she really tries to fix herself, stays loyal and waits for me, should I consider her offer of reconciliation then? I know most of you don't think she can do it but if she can?? Or am I a fool for ever taking her back??? I told her again yesterday I don't know if I can be with her. (To her dismay I remind her daily we are not together) She says she will except it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...


Let me say that I think that people can change and it is possible that she may be capable of reconciliation. However, I have to say that your statement about her needing validation is a bit troubling. I think that to determine if she is sincere, that I would recommend a structured separation. It would look something like this. 

1-30 days no contact, only contact is emergency or child transfer. This can't be abused as the separation allows both of you to gain perspective and take some of the emotion out of the equation.

31-60 days start counseling. Only meet for counseling otherwise it is same as the first 30 days.

61-90 days, assuming both of you want to proceed, add family days and light dating activities. Intimacy is encouraged but no sex yet.

91-120 days add weekend visits, including sex. You will need access to all social media and electronic devices. At the end of this period you can decide if you need to continue separation, reconcile or end the relationship. 

Reconciliation is never easy and does open you up to the possibility of getting hurt, but also the possibility of saving a relationship if you both are willing to work hard. The first 30 days are important that both of you need to understand that you need to search your feelings to see if you want to continue the relationship. Don't do it for nostalgia, the kids, but is this the person (affair aside) that you want to live the rest of your life with. 

Additionally, you need to search within yourselves and see what went wrong in the relationship and how can you avoid these pitfalls in the future.


----------



## turnera

VFW, amazing post. It should be saved somewhere for education.


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> If I kick her out for 6-12 months, and she really tries to fix herself, stays loyal and waits for me, should I consider her offer of reconciliation then? I know most of you don't think she can do it but if she can?? Or am I a fool for ever taking her back??? I told her again yesterday I don't know if I can be with her. (To her dismay I remind her daily we are not together) She says she will except it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...



Have you ever heard of Sunk cost Fallacy. Google it. 

You can reconcile but don't ever imagine that things will go back to how they were before her affair.

And don't you see anything wrong with being this desperate ? Why not wait a few months before you decide to do anything ?Get a complete break from her for a few months. No relationship, nothing at all. The presence and offers for R are muddying(?) up your though process. Just decide that you won't take any decision for a couple of months


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## jim123

Beytrayed,

You know the answers. Get on with your life anyway you can. She will drop you the minute she finds someone else. Find someone who loves you


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Best way to divorce my wife...*



BetrayedDad said:


> If I kick her out for 6-12 months, and she really tries to fix herself, stays loyal and waits for me, should I consider her offer of reconciliation then? I know most of you don't think she can do it but if she can?? Or am I a fool for ever taking her back??? I told her again yesterday I don't know if I can be with her. (To her dismay I remind her daily we are not together) She says she will except it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...


Don't you want to at least appear strong before you readily cave in and act like a doormat?

I know that sounded harsh but friend you are looking for a home run before you even get to the ballpark. Why don't you see how it goes before you're ready to take her back. IF she works on herself and becomes someone worthy of a relationship then maybe. But is she that person now?


----------



## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> If I kick her out for 6-12 months, and she really tries to fix herself, stays loyal and waits for me, should I consider her offer of reconciliation then? I know most of you don't think she can do it but if she can?? Or am I a fool for ever taking her back??? I told her again yesterday I don't know if I can be with her. (To her dismay I remind her daily we are not together) She says she will except it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...


BD the problem here is that she already has shown that she can stay loyal for a period of time until someone pays attention to her again, her previous A was 6 years before this one, suppose this: you kicked her out she goes to an appartament and for one year she does not party, as she barely can paid expenses she does not go to bars or restaurants, so it well seems like she changed, but in fact is the lack of stability is forcing her to remain humble.

But if you really want to put that plan in action (which i am against) please at least make sure to do all the next actions:

- demand full transparency, if she is still sticking to the story that they just kissed after dd (that you and everyone here knows is a lie), take her to the polygraph, and i am sure you will find more lies (which should reafirm R is not worth, but still your decision)
- Make sure she moves out and have not contact with her other than related to the kids, until you do this you are in your own fog longing for a woman that ceased to exist more than 6 years ago
- put your profile online and date women: see what is out there, it will help you to rebuild your self esteem and your ex will appreciate you more, many times WS feel empowered, thinking that BS can't do better than them, which is a lie, if after dating other women you still feel strong feelings for her you can consider it.
- she have to quit her job ASAP, other wise she will remain attached to the OM, being in the same enviorement as expecting from him to change his mind (again, i don't think R is a option for you)
- if in one year period she still had not found someone else or hooked with the OM (which i doubt) you can begin to date her.
- again polygraph, to see if she had no contact with the OM in that period of time.
- if you decide to live together again, demand full transparency, cell and internet passwords, use gps soft in her cell phone. 
- Don't marry her for at least 10 years, the moment you remarry her the moment she will feel safe again (is better if you never remarried her).
- if you marry, impose a prenup.

BD take in consideration that many users that are against your reconciling here, are BS themselves and had gone through fake R, and succesfully R, if they are advising you to not reconcile is because they see red flags as i do.

She has no shown signs of true remorse, she kept lying about what happened, she kept working with him, she treats you like king now, but that is not change is manipulation, and her feeling change 180° after a couple of days?.

if you want to see what a really remorseful exwife did to win her exhusband back read Rookie Thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61712-could-you-reconcile.html

she said some really degrading things to him, and for that he really was 100% againts R with his exwife, but after all what she did he agreed to give it a try. I will just point some differences between his ex and yours but i advice you to read his thread.

- She dumped the OM immediatly when he filed for divorce (your ex did not give up on him until you were divorced, he was exposed and she was repeatedly dumped by him)
- she begged for a second chance during the divorce period, cutting communication with the OM (your ex did not care about the divorce as long as the OM were feeding here with sweet words)
- OM kept coming at her after she dumped him, she went to HR explained the situation and asked for reschedule to have the minimun contact possible (in your case the most probably is that OM asked for her to be tranfered to a new boss when he was having problems with his wife)
- She exposed herself, to her and his family, friends, church, explained what happened took 100% responsabilty (you have to exposed her and even after that she kept contacting a meeting the OM)
- after the divorce she went to live to an apartament with a lady from church and told him she will wait for him, and pray for a second chance (yours wanted to go and live in the fictional appartment of OM)
- when he asked for full transparency about how the A happened she told him everything, how it began, dates, first and last time (in your case your ex kept lying about everything)
- She admitted her feelings and thoughts about OM, how she loved that he make her feel like a teenager but it was 100% her resposability, from the beggining she knew it was wrong (yours now is saying how she was played and shifting responsability).
- she began IC after DD on her own to understand her issues and even after 2 years when the R began she kept going (yours took it sereously just when she faced herself alone without OM or XHusband).

there are other points but i advice you to read the Thread.

and please reread my last post all is based in your own words.


----------



## illwill

The other option is to simply divorce her and find a better woman. They do exist. I found one. Why wait a year for someone who has already cheated on you, when you can find someone who has not right now?


----------



## bandit.45

Lord Almighty......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Betrayed Dad,

Keep your love for her secret. Kick her to the curb. Date other women to show that you can. Make her tear her hair out in jealousy. 

Then and only then consider R, for if she gets back home without deep remorse, well you know her sexual desire is too powerful for her to control.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## carmen ohio

BetrayedDad said:


> If I kick her out for 6-12 months, and she really tries to fix herself, stays loyal and waits for me, should I consider her offer of reconciliation then? I know most of you don't think she can do it but if she can?? Or am I a fool for ever taking her back??? I told her again yesterday I don't know if I can be with her. (To her dismay I remind her daily we are not together) She says she will except it if I kick her out in a month or so and appreciates that I at least tried...


Dear BetrayedDad,

I've not posted on your thread before, although I've followed it from the beginning. Let my give you my 2¢.

Two things are pretty clear from your most recent posts: first, your WFW doesn't want to leave you and, second, you are struggling mightily to come up with a reason not to make her go.

Before you make a "final decision" on whether to attempt R with your wayward former wife (WFW), understanding that no relationship decisions are ever final until death, try your best to answer two questions: (1) why does she suddenly want to stay with me and (2) why am I finding it so hard to make her go.

There are two possible answers to the first question. One, that she really does love you and, two, that she is only using you as her Plan B.

Similarly, there are two possible answers to the second question. One, that you really see in her qualities that would make her a good candidate for R and, two, that you cannot let her go because you are emotionally dependent on her.

In order to answer these questions, do the following:

- tell her that you will only consider R if she moves out soon, so that you can make the decision free of the constant pressure from her to R,

- tell her that, if she doesn't move out quickly, you will interpret that as proof that she is trying to control you and that will destroy any chance of R,

- if she moves out quickly, wait at least six months before making a decision to R while you observe her behavior, and

- if she doesn't move out quickly, force her out by any legal means and give up thinking about R.

_Only if_ you decide that she really and truly loves you, is sorry for what she's done and is capable of becoming a loyal spouse and that you really and truly love her, are confident that you can forgive her for her infidelity and are not forgiving her because you don't have the b*lls to let her go, _then_ try to R.

The only way you can reach the forgoing conclusion is to live apart from her for enough time to observe her and to get a grip on your own feelings. Continuing to live with her while you consider R will prevent this, will likely cause you to make a bad decision and therefore is highly inadvisable.

Wishing you the best.


----------



## BetrayedDad

warlock07 said:


> Why did it throw you in such a tailspin when she offered you R ?


That is such a good question and I never even considered it. I have no idea but it has... I went full steam on the divorce, I knew she was carrying on still, she wasn't going to quit her job, she was ready to leave and had the applications for apartments out. I pretty much accepted we were done because she would never do the heavy lifting.

I honestly never expected her to offer me R. Not once in 12 years has she really fought for our relationship. She took me for granted mostly. Over the last week she has finally been completely attentive to my needs, has taken ownership of her wrongs, started looking for another job, has stopped texting OM, has given me a time line and on her own decided to start going to church. (Which shocked me cause we're not religious at all). On friday the OM left a note on her chair. She took a picture of it and emailed it to me immediately. She could of hid it and I would of never known. I just forwarded it to the OMW. For now and for the first time she just seems sincere about trying to fix the damage she's done. 

But I'm not so blind to not see what's going on. The advice I'm getting here is brutal, honest and spot on. I appreciate what is being said and it is not falling on deaf ears but I admit I think her still being in the house (and in the interest of full disclosure we've been having sex since d-day) has obviously affected me. I told her yesterday I am going to start dating (probably just sign up for match.com). I told her I need to fix myself (the self-esteem issues I obviously have) and she needs to do the same. I don't want either one of us to try to continue this relationship out of comfort. I reminded her again we are still not together until I decide otherwise. It would be sooo easy for me to just cave in and rug sweep but I don't want to... and I honestly want to see how long she keeps this up. I wonder how long it will last?


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> Not once in 12 years has she really fought for our relationship.
> Over the last week


Dude, do you hear yourself?

If she is STILL doing this stuff 12 MONTHS FROM NOW, then by all means consider R. Anything before that is being a sap.


----------



## BK23

When are you getting her out of your home? Set a deadline.


----------



## happyman64

BetrayedDad said:


> That is such a good question and I never even considered it. I have no idea but it has... I went full steam on the divorce, I knew she was carrying on still, she wasn't going to quit her job, she was ready to leave and had the applications for apartments out. I pretty much accepted we were done because she would never do the heavy lifting.
> 
> I honestly never expected her to offer me R. Not once in 12 years has she really fought for our relationship. She took me for granted mostly. Over the last week she has finally been completely attentive to my needs, has taken ownership of her wrongs, started looking for another job, has stopped texting OM, has given me a time line and on her own decided to start going to church. (Which shocked me cause we're not religious at all). On friday the OM left a note on her chair. She took a picture of it and emailed it to me immediately. She could of hid it and I would of never known. I just forwarded it to the OMW. For now and for the first time she just seems sincere about trying to fix the damage she's done.
> 
> But I'm not so blind to not see what's going on. The advice I'm getting here is brutal, honest and spot on. I appreciate what is being said and it is not falling on deaf ears but I admit I think her still being in the house (and in the interest of full disclosure we've been having sex since d-day) has obviously affected me. I told her yesterday I am going to start dating (probably just sign up for match.com). I told her I need to fix myself (the self-esteem issues I obviously have) and she needs to do the same. *I don't want either one of us to try to continue this relationship out of comfort. I reminded her again we are still not together until I decide otherwise.* It would be sooo easy for me to just cave in and rug sweep but I don't want to... and I honestly want to see how long she keeps this up. I wonder how long it will last?


BD

What was your wife's response??

HM


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

BetrayedDad said:


> That is such a good question and I never even considered it. I have no idea but it has... I went full steam on the divorce, I knew she was carrying on still, she wasn't going to quit her job, she was ready to leave and had the applications for apartments out. I pretty much accepted we were done because she would never do the heavy lifting.
> 
> *I honestly never expected her to offer me R. Not once in 12 years has she really fought for our relationship. She took me for granted mostly. Over the last week she has finally been completely attentive to my needs, has taken ownership of her wrongs, started looking for another job, has stopped texting OM, has given me a time line and on her own decided to start going to church. (Which shocked me cause we're not religious at all). *On friday the OM left a note on her chair. She took a picture of it and emailed it to me immediately. She could of hid it and I would of never known. I just forwarded it to the OMW. For now and for the first time she just seems sincere about trying to fix the damage she's done.
> 
> But I'm not so blind to not see what's going on. The advice I'm getting here is brutal, honest and spot on. I appreciate what is being said and it is not falling on deaf ears but I admit I think her still being in the house (and in the interest of full disclosure we've been having sex since d-day) has obviously affected me. I told her yesterday I am going to start dating (probably just sign up for match.com). I told her I need to fix myself (the self-esteem issues I obviously have) and she needs to do the same. I don't want either one of us to try to continue this relationship out of comfort. I reminded her again we are still not together until I decide otherwise. It would be sooo easy for me to just cave in and rug sweep but I don't want to... and I honestly want to see how long she keeps this up. I wonder how long it will last?


It sounds like she got dumped, or at least the OM basically said "We can have sex, but that's it(i.e., he's not leaving his wife for her).

You definitely should join that dating site. Because you should move on.

She should join a dating site. Because you will see how fast you are replaced, AGAIN.


----------



## BetrayedDad

happyman64 said:


> BD
> 
> What was your wife's response??
> 
> HM


She was upset but she reluctantly accepted it. I told her I needed to fix myself or she would never respect me. She said she didn't want to lose me or be used as plan B. I told her the only way I will know I could attempt R (for the right reasons and not because I'm afraid) is if I at least try to date other people. I'm still not sure if I want R regardless but I'm still kind of screwed up in the head from all this to make a rational decision at the moment. I mean it's only been 2 months since I found out. It still feels kind of surreal.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

BetrayedDad said:


> She was upset but she reluctantly accepted it. I told her I needed to fix myself or she would never respect me. *She said she didn't want to lose me or be used as plan B. *I told her the only way I will know I could attempt R (for the right reasons and not because I'm afraid) is if I at least try to date other people.


That's rich. Did you point out how ironic this statement was?


----------



## BetrayedDad

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> It sounds like she got dumped, or at least the OM basically said "We can have sex, but that's it(i.e., he's not leaving his wife for her).


Definately the latter... He didn't "say it" but it's all but implied at this point and she's fully aware.



GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> That's rich. Did you point out how ironic this statement was?


Most of what she says is laced with hypocracy. One of my biggest complaints throughout our marriage.


----------



## harrybrown

So how long has she been in NC with the OM? 

She does not want to be plan B? You do not want to be plan B?

How much remorse has she shown for her actions?

I still think you are better off with someone who will not cheat on you.

Do not remarry her!


----------



## alte Dame

I've just read through this entire thread again & the experience is one of watching a train wreck, BD, a train wreck that you have masterfully extracted yourself from - almost. You were at the point where you just had that last little bit of yourself to drag from the wreckage and you would be home free, relatively whole and capable of moving on.

But then....you suddenly start to climb back into the smoldering wreck.

Why - seriously, why? - would you do that? Your XW admittedly cannot be alone and may be desperate to say she will change because you are the only option she has right now to have a man, but that will not end well for you, in my opinion.

She hasn't been a good mother, at least during her A. You said that she didn't pay much attention to the kids. Well, I will tell you that when you had children you made a tacit vow to keep them safe and healthy. The drama that your XW brings to your life is not good for them. Quite the contrary. You should protect your children from further trauma and drama.

You are divorced. Get her out of the house and move on with your life. Give your children some stability and reliability. Stop letting your selfish, needy W jerk the lives of the entire family around.

Don't get back on that train. Please don't.


----------



## walkonmars

alte Dame said:


> You are divorced. Get her out of the house and move on with your life. _Give your children some stability and reliability. Stop letting your selfish, needy W jerk the lives of the entire family around._
> 
> Don't get back on that train. Please don't.


Well said AD, and worth repeating


----------



## missthelove2013

alte Dame said:


> You are divorced. Get her out of the house and move on with your life. Give your children some stability and reliability. Stop letting your selfish, needy W jerk the lives of the entire family around.
> 
> Don't get back on that train. Please don't.


...and repeating...

how long...how long must we sing this song...how long...


----------



## Abra-Brie

Hi Betrayed,

Hicks is correct, listen to your attorney. While this is your first time going through this, he's seen it many times and knows the best way for you to protect your finances and to achieve some sort of custody win with her.

Does she have the funds for a prolonged custody battle? Make sure you talk with your attorney on how to secure any money and property and any other assets you have.

My opinion is that you should hold off on exposing her boss and his afair with your wife to his wife. 

Why? She could possibly lose or quit her job which means she'll be asking for more money from you. Her lawyer will also use this against you to show how negativly you treated her (Yeah, it's BS) and why she was so depressed about it .... blah blah blah

YOUR goal right now should in my opinion be:

Protecting your financial assets like many said
Joint custody of your children (yes, get those paternity tests)
Protecting your health since her boss has a habit of sleeping with people who work um under him. Get tested for for STD's like Working Dad mentioned. 

Revenge can come after the divorce if that's the road you want to take. Keep in mind her boss' wife is innocent in all of this though. She'll probably be devistated. I'd just tell HRO and leave it at that. But do this AFTER the divorce. It's tempting to do it now but this just isn't the time. 

You want this to be as stress free as possible for the kids too.

(I'd also say this if the situation were reversed and he was cheating on her btw. Actually I did, it's in another post.

Take care and good luck,

Abra-Brie


----------



## turnera

alte Dame said:


> *she says she will change because you are the only option she has right now*


In case you missed it...


----------



## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> I knew she was carrying on still, she wasn't going to quit her job, she was ready to leave and had the applications for apartments out. I pretty much accepted we were done because she would never do the heavy lifting.


Yes, because at that point you were not even Plan B, she was sure that she would move with OM to his supposed appartment, when you know he never have the intetion of leaving his wife.

This is why I don't advise you to R, most WW wake up from the fog when divorce is filed and they realize they are about to lose everything, their husband, their kids, their house. That make me question if she have real feelings for you



BetrayedDad said:


> she has finally been completely attentive to my needs, has taken ownership of her wrongs, started looking for another job, has stopped texting OM, has given me a time line and on her own decided to start going to church. (Which shocked me cause we're not religious at all). On friday the OM left a note on her chair. She took a picture of it and emailed it to me immediately. She could of hid it and I would of never known. I just forwarded it to the OMW. For now and for the first time she just seems sincere about trying to fix the damage she's done.


When I find BS in your situation, I always tell them, think where your Wife/XW will be right now if the OM were serious about her. (living with him, ignorig her resposabilities as mother, not given 2Cents about you)

is good that she is taking actions to separate herself of him, but this is for her own benefit (after all he was just using her)



BetrayedDad said:


> But I'm not so blind to not see what's going on. The advice I'm getting here is brutal, honest and spot on. I appreciate what is being said and it is not falling on deaf ears but I admit I think her still being in the house (and in the interest of full disclosure we've been having sex since d-day) has obviously affected me. I told her yesterday I am going to start dating (probably just sign up for match.com). I told her I need to fix myself (the self-esteem issues I obviously have) and she needs to do the same. I don't want either one of us to try to continue this relationship out of comfort. I reminded her again we are still not together until I decide otherwise. It would be sooo easy for me to just cave in and rug sweep but I don't want to... and I honestly want to see how long she keeps this up. I wonder how long it will last?


that's my dog (just joking a don't speak like that), but yes, that is how Rug Sweeping happen, you began to have sex after DD and she began to focus her attetion in you (not for the right reason), then you lost the objetivety of the situation, just to discover another A years later, i have seen many users who have experienced that in here, but just 2 nicknames come to my mind right now.

Thorburn: who have had like 4 OM or more (2 confirmed 100%) in 22 years (in their 28 marrige), but the same happened; sex after DD she changes and little focus her attetion in him then Rug Sweeping. 
I just can't continue reading his Thread he is such a nice guy, good father, provider, i think he is even a veteran, but her wife kept trampling him (with the las OM he had many DD in different years) 

Malcolm38: his wife had one ONS-PA, 5 year later and EA-Phisical contact, and (other 5 years later) last year she had EA/PA and he is finally divorcing her and living appart, but the first two A were also Rug Sweeping (they did not separated, they had alot of sex and she changed a little during that a period of time)

Wideopn Dave: i will just quote him, in more than 20 years of marriage "My wife had 5 x EA's and one PA and who's the idiot?? Yup me for each time on the EA's forgiving and taking her back with the promises that she wouldn't do it again."



BetrayedDad said:


> She said she didn't want to lose me or be used as plan B. I told her the only way I will know I could attempt R (for the right reasons and not because I'm afraid) is if I at least try to date other people.


:smthumbup:

wow, as GROUNDPOUNDER say the "hypocrecy", she lost you and you became her plan b

BTW she have to move, even if you are dating you will be under her influence if she is still there.

questions:

what was wrote in the note? aiming for an encounter?, casul chat?, looking to meet in private?.

What the OMW said about the note?

PS: if she move's out and hook with the OM or another man pretty quickly and forget about you don't feel bad, this just means you took the right decision, and was gonna happen eventually anyway, and she was not serious about R


----------



## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> questions:
> 
> what was wrote in the note? aiming for an encounter?, casul chat?, looking to meet in private?.
> 
> What the OMW said about the note?


It basically said he apologized for ruining her life, understood why she doesn't want to talk to him, was sorry for causing her pain and that he never lied to her about anything (Which in itself is a ridiculous lie). She sent him a "No Contact" text two Saturday's ago. It looked like some attempt by him to reach out to her.

The best part was after I forwarded the OMW the note she said, "He told me he would have zero contact with her.... That lasted all of one day!"


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## turnera

He apologizes but proceeds to cover his own ass. Classy.


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## Ovid

Be very careful what you threaten. When you threaten something you should do it. My wife immediately dropped OM when I threw out the D word because I don't threaten, I act. Using the threat of D gave her the feeling of the D papers in hand. I say this because I notice your WW dismisses your threats too easily. 

Talk less. Don't announce what you're going to do. If you must announce it, announce what you are actually doing. Keep this pattern in any relationship you are in so that your communication is clear, and does not go ignored.


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## Ovid

turnera said:


> He apologizes but proceeds to cover his own ass. Classy.


Salt of the earth :rofl:


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## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> When I find BS in your situation, I always tell them, think where your Wife/XW will be right now if the OM were serious about her. (living with him, ignorig her resposabilities as mother, not given 2Cents about you)


And I was saying that to her for SIX weeks after d-day at least a dozen times and she never once corrected me. NOW, since her asking for R I tell her that and she says immediately, "I would not have left you for him... It was just fantasy talk." 

Kind of upsets me because it's obvious she's telling me what she thinks I want to hear. And when I tell her that she just says, "I figured and well... I don't know how I can make you believe me." I'm more upset she's trying to flip flop the story.

It's almost like she doesn't want to believe she was so STUPID to fall for what he is saying that she's convinced herself that she was just playing along. It's kind of pathetic, hence why I pity her. But I could see she took the betrayal by him hard.... It was all over her face and NOW she's so GRATEFUL to have me.

Wow... the more I type about this the more pissed I am getting lol.


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## turnera

BD, it SHOULDN'T MATTER what she says or what lies she tells or whether she says what you want to hear. 

She's using you and you know it.

MOVE ON.


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## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> It basically said he apologized for ruining her life, understood why she doesn't want to talk to him, was sorry for causing her pain and that he never lied to her about anything. She sent him a "No Contact" text two Saturday's ago. It looked like some attempt by him to reach out to her.
> 
> The best part was after I forwarded the OMW the note she said, "He told me he would have zero contact with her.... That lasted all of one day!"


great, own him, and burn him as much as possible

yes, he was fishing, damn bast*rd just looking for his plan b, or kept cake eating.

did the OMW accept him back or they are still living appart?

also, when your ex finally find another job, send a formal email to HR (to reach the ethical board) and top excutives about him sleeping with subordinates, tell them them facts and how that lead to the divorce. 

also i am gonna share what Dig did to get her OM fired, you can do both my suggestion and follow also Dig actions to get him fired.

user: SomedayDig 

*"Thanks to Shaggy, I took his suggestion as I had never heard of Cheaterville. So, I got the xOM's pic off his corporate law firm and put his scummy ass on the site.

After a couple months, and in a particularly vindictive mood, I decided to use the site's "anonymous" email system. I emailed the top 2 partners of the firm. The xOM was senior counsel at his office out of a corporation of 10 offices. Google has Cheaterville as the top listing when searching his name. As we know, an attorney is only as "good" as his name.

Within a month he was no longer on the corporate website."*


----------



## BetrayedDad

Ovid said:


> I say this because I notice your WW dismisses your threats too easily.


She really does. I told her FOUR times I was going to tell the OMW and after I did, when she came home screaming about it, the first thing she called me was, "sneaky". And I said, "Sneaky? I told you four times I was going to do it!" and her response was, "I didn't think you were serious...." WTF.

I guess sleeping around behind my back doesn't make her "sneaky". More hypocracy...


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## manticore

If you put him on cheaterville make sure to also name the company where he is working, so when people make a google search of the company the name of the OM who sleeps with subordinates wil come in the top places.

this will force to company totake action.


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## BK23

So are you going to get her out of your house? 

Or are you going to sweep this all under the rug and wait around for her to take up with the OM again... That note was smooth. She'll be putting out for him again sooner or later...


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## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> her response was, "I didn't think you were serious...." WTF.


Why do you even say WTF? 

SHE KNOWS YOU better than YOU know you.

She knows you are easy to play, a laydown, and codependent. 

Why do you think she's still there? She figures it's only a matter of weeks before you stop asking her to leave.


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## DavidWYoung

So....How much more are you going to take? How much more can she S#it on you? Do not say anything about your children, just you! How much more can you take and still look at yourself in the mirror?

JM2C David


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## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> Why do you even say WTF?
> 
> SHE KNOWS YOU better than YOU know you.
> 
> She knows you are easy to play, a laydown, and codependent.
> 
> Why do you think she's still there? She figures it's only a matter of weeks before you stop asking her to leave.


I'm sure she thinks I'm all those things. She never thought I would divorce her. She never thought she would get caught. She didn't think I would tell the OMW. She probably does think we will work it out cause she's just so damn charming.... Yes she still lives in MY house (thank you judge) for now. Until I decide to kick her out or if she leaves. She pays me rent, cleans up around the house, takes care of the kids and I get laid. So if she wants to stay in the short term while I try to look for a girlfriend then whatever. I'm sure as hell not going to beg her to stay if it becomes too stressful for her. And I'll know fairly quickly if she rekindles the affair between me and the OMW watching them like a hawk. She knows that too.

I'm not going to say I'll never take her back but this is far from over. I told her I am going to date and we are not together. If she wants to watch me date other women then fine. I told her if she so much as says hi to another guy, especially the OM, she's out the door. I told her flat out I'm joining match.com. She's accepted those terms regretably. Hopefully she doesn't think I'm "just kidding" cause I'm as serious as I was about the divorce. She has one chance to show me she's serious about fixing herself and after one week I will give her credit. But I'll need to see several months of this kind of effort. Even after that I offer no guarentees of R. She accepts this too.

In the interim now SHE can be plan B for a while and if I see real change in her and she wants to try to win me back she's welcome to try. She better hope I don't meet my real soulmate in the interim. I need to date to see if I still want to be with her. If that makes sense? And if I find someone and it becomes serious then she's gone. All I care about now is MY happiness.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

B.D., I think deep down inside, you know the score. She only want's you because she can't have him. If she does any real heavy lifting, it's only untill either you back off and go back to the status quo, OR she re-links with the OM/maybe even a new OM. She only wants the stability that you can provide her. She still longs for the POSOM and YOU KNOW IT.

Just how much pain are you going to volanterally endure, before you come out of your fog? Cut her loose. See what happens. If she still wants you back after 6-12 months, then give it a try then.

I think it's doubtful, but pove me wrong.


----------



## BK23

It's sad to see you turn around like this... You were so decisive, you handled this so well, now you are completely waffling. 

I think this whole you be my slave while I go out on Match.com routine is a bunch of BS.


----------



## BetrayedDad

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> B.D., I think deep down inside, you know the score.


Yeah I do... I do see what's going on. She probably does long for the POSOM much like I long for the spouse I married eight years ago. Now that reality has hit, we're both just playing the crappy cards we are dealt and seing what we can salvage if anything. I guess I'm not fully ready to fold yet. I know it's stupid but I'm not going to sit on my butt and wait either. I'm still going to focus on me in the interim. I think dating is the next logical move.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BK23 said:


> I think this whole you be my slave while I go out on Match.com routine is a bunch of BS.


Maybe I'm trying to cake eat too lol. I can't make a decision so for now I'm in pseudo-limbo. I want to see if she will stick with it.... It's only been two months. Maybe in six I'll say to myself, "To hell with her!" If she doesn't progress it actually makes my life and decision a whole lot easier.


----------



## bfree

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm sure she thinks I'm all those things. She never thought I would divorce her. She never thought she would get caught. She didn't think I would tell the OMW. She probably does think we will work it out cause she's just so damn charming.... Yes she still lives in MY house (thank you judge) for now. Until I decide to kick her out or if she leaves. She pays me rent, cleans up around the house, takes care of the kids and I get laid. So if she wants to stay in the short term while I try to look for a girlfriend then whatever. I'm sure as hell not going to beg her to stay if it becomes too stressful for her. And I'll know fairly quickly if she rekindles the affair between me and the OMW watching them like a hawk. She knows that too.
> 
> I'm not going to say I'll never take her back but this is far from over. I told her I am going to date and we are not together. If she wants to watch me date other women then fine. I told her if she so much as says hi to another guy, especially the OM, she's out the door. I told her flat out I'm joining match.com. She's accepted those terms regretably. Hopefully she doesn't think I'm "just kidding" cause I'm as serious as I was about the divorce. She has one chance to show me she's serious about fixing herself and after one week I will give her credit. But I'll need to see several months of this kind of effort. Even after that I offer no guarentees of R. She accepts this too.
> 
> In the interim now SHE can be plan B for a while and if I see real change in her and she wants to try to win me back she's welcome to try. She better hope I don't meet my real soulmate in the interim. I need to date to see if I still want to be with her. If that makes sense? And if I find someone and it becomes serious then she's gone. All I care about now is MY happiness.


BD, you're still connected to her. You need to detach and you can't do that while she is still living with you. You cannot even begin to approach a proper mindset on whether to R or not so long as you are under her thumb. And make no mistake you ARE under her thumb. Cleopatra did not use force to overpower Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. She charmed them, flattered them, allowed them to exert their manly influence while she used her coquettish charms to rule them. This is what your wife is doing to you right now. She knows you. She knows which buttons to push and which ones to stroke gently. You need some serious perspective.


----------



## turnera

Ok, I get it. 

If you kick her out, you stop getting sex.

Makes sense now.

meh


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> Ok, I get it.
> 
> If you kick her out, you stop getting sex.


You obviously don't get it..... she didn't sleep with me for four months and I was still with her. 

I don't know if I want her or if I'm just comfortable with her.

The theme of your last several posts has been "ditch the b!tch".... 

Ok, I get that. 

Noted...


----------



## Tall Average Guy

BetrayedDad said:


> You obviously don't get it..... she didn't sleep with me for four months and I was still with her.
> 
> I don't know if I want her or if I'm just comfortable with her.
> 
> The theme of your last several posts has been ditch the b!tch....
> 
> Ok, I get it.
> 
> Noted...


I won't advocate that you ditch her.

I will advocate that you have her move out and you stop seeing her. Truly separate and rebalance yourself to a life without her. Then look at her and your relationship and see what you want and whether it could possibly include her.

As noted, she knows you better than you do. With that knowledge, she is manipulating you and keeping you off balance.

So get some separation and "detox" from her. Once you get her out of your system, start working on yourself. Then see what you want and how she fits in you life (it at all).


----------



## turnera

No. 

The theme of my last several posts is that YOU ARE DIVORCED and she has NO BUSINESS BEING IN YOUR HOUSE.


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> You obviously don't get it..... she didn't sleep with me for four months and I was still with her.


And now she DOES sleep with you, so why should you rock the boat?


----------



## turnera

Tall Average Guy said:


> I won't advocate that you ditch her.
> 
> I will advocate that you have her move out and you stop seeing her.


THIS.

You can keep seeing her if you want - from her own home.


----------



## turnera

Tall Average Guy said:


> I won't advocate that you ditch her.
> 
> I will advocate that you have her move out and you stop seeing her. Truly separate and rebalance yourself to a life without her. Then look at her and your relationship and see what you want and whether it could possibly include her.
> 
> As noted, she knows you better than you do. With that knowledge, she is manipulating you and keeping you off balance.
> 
> So get some separation and "detox" from her. Once you get her out of your system, start working on yourself. Then see what you want and how she fits in you life (it at all).


Have you read LifeScript's thread yet?


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> And now she DOES sleep with you, so why should you rock the boat?


She doesn't have to live with me to sleep with me. So I'm not sure why you're so fixated on the sexual component. I only brought it up to point out that it's probably not helping me to detach any faster.


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> Have you read LifeScript's thread yet?


No I haven't, I will later tonight.


----------



## manticore

BK23 said:


> So are you going to get her out of your house?
> 
> Or are you going to sweep this all under the rug and wait around for her to take up with the OM again... That note was smooth. She'll be putting out for him again sooner or later...





turnera said:


> Why do you even say WTF?
> 
> SHE KNOWS YOU better than YOU know you.
> 
> She knows you are easy to play, a laydown, and codependent.
> 
> Why do you think she's still there? She figures it's only a matter of weeks before you stop asking her to leave.





DavidWYoung said:


> So....How much more are you going to take? How much more can she S#it on you? Do not say anything about your children, just you! How much more can you take and still look at yourself in the mirror?
> 
> JM2C David


people calm down

users come her for support, and objectively point of view, i understand your frustation, is easy to us to see from outside how things are, but take in consideration that this is the woman he planned his life with, they have more than 10 years of marriage (dont think he specified exactly how many years) and have kids together.

he is my hero of how he handled his divorce, like a f**king war strategist: 

- Instead of crying, begging or pledging he let her float in the affair fog.
- Instead of threaten her or letting his anger dominate him, he play amicable while swallowing his feelings.
- when BSS confronts WSS as victim, normally WSS got defensives and a war of who is the victim begin, he just played as if he accepted the marriage was over, like just asking her to let him free.
- he didn't try to fight her fog, as he said, i want her in a happy mood to give me an easy divorce.
- he got everything, the house, the kids support, no financial losses in the divorce.
- in less than 3 months he was already free


He was the f**king boss, how many BS got out of the marriage like that?, you just have to see the name of his thread to see his resolve **Best way to divorce my wife**.

I am also a little frustated because he already achieved the more difficult part of the process with flying colors, but now the ex realized that he got played by both, the OM and his XH in the divorce.

that is why he have to separate from her, is normal to still have feelings for her, the longing of the wife she was at the begining of their relationship before kids and financial issues were there, even if she does not exist anymore.

BD that is why everyone is advising you to make her leave the house as fast as possible, many of them know how difficult is to detach while having her sweet talking you, and sexing you, she is playing you like the OM played her.

But just in the remote case she is honest about R, we have been giving all the advises like, living appart, dating different people, review your feelings after not seeing her for a while, see her improvments in a significant time line, if you still have feelings after all of this then finally date her and consider R


----------



## azteca1986

BetrayedDad said:


> She probably does long for the POSOM much like I long for the spouse I married eight years ago.


The difference between the two of you is she can still hold a candle for the POSOM, that circumstances might change in their favour; whereas in your case that wife is long dead.


----------



## carmen ohio

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm sure she thinks I'm all those things. She never thought I would divorce her. She never thought she would get caught. She didn't think I would tell the OMW. She probably does think we will work it out cause she's just so damn charming.... *Yes she still lives in MY house* (thank you judge) for now. Until I decide to kick her out or if she leaves. *She pays me rent, cleans up around the house, takes care of the kids and I get laid. So if she wants to stay in the short term while I try to look for a girlfriend then whatever.* I'm sure as hell not going to beg her to stay if it becomes too stressful for her. And I'll know fairly quickly if she rekindles the affair between me and the OMW watching them like a hawk. She knows that too.
> 
> I'm not going to say I'll never take her back but this is far from over. *I told her I am going to date and we are not together. If she wants to watch me date other women then fine. I told her if she so much as says hi to another guy, especially the OM, she's out the door. I told her flat out I'm joining match.com. She's accepted those terms regretably.* Hopefully she doesn't think I'm "just kidding" cause I'm as serious as I was about the divorce. *She has one chance to show me she's serious about fixing herself and after one week I will give her credit. But I'll need to see several months of this kind of effort.* Even after that I offer no guarentees of R. She accepts this too.
> 
> *In the interim now SHE can be plan B for a while and if I see real change in her and she wants to try to win me back she's welcome to try. She better hope I don't meet my real soulmate in the interim. I need to date to see if I still want to be with her. If that makes sense? And if I find someone and it becomes serious then she's gone. All I care about now is MY happiness.*





Tall Average Guy said:


> I won't advocate that you ditch her.
> 
> *I will advocate that you have her move out and you stop seeing her. Truly separate and rebalance yourself to a life without her. Then look at her and your relationship and see what you want and whether it could possibly include her.*
> 
> As noted, she knows you better than you do. With that knowledge, she is manipulating you and keeping you off balance.
> 
> *So get some separation and "detox" from her. Once you get her out of your system, start working on yourself. Then see what you want and how she fits in you life (it at all).*


Dear BetrayedDad,

I think the arrangement you and your WFW now have is a bad one -- for her, for you and especially for your kids. In effect, you are treating her as your tenant/live-in maid with "benefits."

This is bad for her because it is totally demeaning and, while one could say that she deserves it, over time, the changes it is likely to induce in her is not one that will make her a better life partner if the two of you ever decide to R.

It is bad for you because it means you have one foot in your old life while you try to build a new one. You say that you intend to start dating. What woman worth having is going to want to start a relationship with you knowing that you are still living and having sex with your X? What does it say about you that you are unwilling or unable to cut the chord with her? How are you going to assess the seriousness of your WFW's commitment to a future relationship with if she is not really free to go her separate way?

It's bad for your kids because they are now living in a really screwed up and confusing family situation. Their parents are divorced but still living together. Their father will be seeing other woman while living with their mother and treating her with something less than respect. They will not know what their future holds and therefore will not be able to make the emotional adjustments necessary to help them get over their parents' D.

Please consider seriously Tall Average Guy's advice (which is similar to mine from my post of yesterday). Physical separation is the norm after D and their is a reason for this. D implies the end of a relationship, not its continuation in a different form. This enables both of the formerly married parties to heal emotionally from what precipitated the D and move on to new, healthier relationships. It also prepares the way for their eventual R (in those rare instances in which it happens) because, if the divorced parties eventually decide to try to R, it means that they have both explored their options and both decided that R is best.

I understand that you are still angry with your WFW for what she did and you have a right to be angry. But for you to fully recover, you need eventually to get over your anger. That requires disengaging from her, not holding her under your thumb.

Wishing you the wisdom and strength to do what is right by yourself, your children and, yes, even your WFW.


----------



## walkonmars

BD

Why don't you talk to your lawyer about the potential ramifications of your wife continuing to reside in your home post divorce?

You may discover that if she doesn't leave in a timely manner she may have some rights to continue residing in your home. 

I fully concur with thoughtful comments from carmen that lay out potential emotional damage that could ensue.


----------



## alte Dame

I understand that you are interested in seeing how this could play out, i.e., if she could really change. There are other posters who have divorced their WW's, but then maintained or regained relationships with them. Chris989 divorced his WW, but they still live together. His XW has definitely broken it off with the POSOM, whom Chris very, very successfully pilloried on cheaterville.com. Rookie4 divorced his cheating W and went about his life; she spent several years working on being a better person & they appear to be back together now.

If you somehow want to keep this living arrangement going, you need to think far longer term in terms of her changing and proving herself. Not 6 months. More like several years. And even if you decide to keep the door open with her, I don't think it's smart to do it while you are living together. At least Chris's WW is definitely done with the A. Your XW isn't anywhere near done with it.


----------



## bfree

BD,

To piggyback on carmen's post this arrangement is not good for your wife in another respect. If you truly want her to change and address her issues, if you truly believe that she should work on herself and become a better person, then you should want her to move out. By allowing her to stay you are not only maintaining a safety net for her thereby reducing her motivation to work on herself but you are also complicating things by creating unnecessary distractions that are going to interfere with her thought process. Only by living on her own and truly confronting her own thoughts can she really become the person she should be and that you want her to be. By cutting her loose you are actually doing her a huge favor and forcing her to see the reality of the situation she created.


----------



## LongWalk

bfree said:


> BD,
> 
> To piggyback on carmen's post this arrangement is not good for your wife in another respect. If you truly want her to change and address her issues, if you truly believe that she should work on herself and become a better person, then you should want her to move out. By allowing her to stay you are not only maintaining a safety net for her thereby reducing her motivation to work on herself but you are also complicating things by creating unnecessary distractions that are going to interfere with her thought process. *Only by living on her own and truly confronting her own thoughts can she really become the person she should be and that you want her to be. By cutting her loose you are actually doing her a huge favor and forcing her to see the reality of the situation she created.*


:iagree:


----------



## manticore

alte Dame said:


> I understand that you are interested in seeing how this could play out, i.e., if she could really change. There are other posters who have divorced their WW's, but then maintained or regained relationships with them. Chris989 divorced his WW, but they still live together. His XW has definitely broken it off with the POSOM, whom Chris very, very successfully pilloried on cheaterville.com. Rookie4 divorced his cheating W and went about his life; she spent several years working on being a better person & they appear to be back together now.
> 
> If you somehow want to keep this living arrangement going, you need to think far longer term in terms of her changing and proving herself. Not 6 months. More like several years. And even if you decide to keep the door open with her, I don't think it's smart to do it while you are living together. At least Chris's WW is definitely done with the A. Your XW isn't anywhere near done with it.


yes but this reafirm the fact that a separation is necessary.

Is true that Chris have been living with her ex for many months since being divorced, but he has expressed his desire to leave his home and live with a friend since july 2013, he has not done it yet for financial reasons.

Also Chris wrote that he wanted to leave to review his feelings to see how he feel without her, he has expressed how since the divorce his ex has given him the king treatment, and she constantly tell him how much she love him, and that she will never cheat again, in fact chris wrote that they both feel that if he leaves (he still intend to leave) he will probably not return.

An Rookie kicked her ex out immdiately after DD, and after two years of improvments (and she really changed 180° her behavior) from her, he gave it a try. But during this two years he dated alot and realized that he still had feelings for his ex after one just date with her again.


----------



## alte Dame

manticore said:


> yes but this reafirm the fact that a separation is necessary.
> 
> Is true that Chris is have been living with her ex for many months since being divorced, but he has expressed his desire to leave his home and live with a friend since july 2013, he has not done it yet for financial reasons.
> 
> Also Chris wrote that he wanted to leave to review his feelings to see how he feel without her, he has expressed how since the divorce his ex has given him the king treatment, and she constantly tell him how much she love him, and that she will never cheat again, in fact chris wrote that they both feel that if he leaves (he still intend to leave) he will probably not return.
> 
> An Rookie kicked her ex out immdiately after DD, and after two years of improvments (and she really changed 180° her behavior) from her, he gave it a try. But during this two years he dated alot and realized that he still had feelings for his ex after one just date with her again.


Yes, I agree with you. I think both Chris and Rookie have decidedly different situations from OP here, although they are both 'revisiting' their relationships with their X's post divorce, much the way BD wants to. Chris seems extremely torn even with his XW's contrition & Rookie did not look back when he filed for D. BD, in my opinion, should get her out and get some proper distance, get his life back for himself and his kids & only then perhaps reconsider - if his XW has done the hard work over a long period of time to right the ship.


----------



## manticore

manticore said:


> great, own him, and burn him as much as possible
> 
> yes, he was fishing, damn bast*rd just looking for his plan b, or kept cake eating.
> 
> did the OMW accept him back or they are still living appart?
> 
> also, when your ex finally find another job, send a formal email to HR (to reach the ethical board) and top excutives about him sleeping with subordinates, tell them them facts and how that lead to the divorce.
> 
> also i am gonna share what Dig did to get her OM fired, you can do both my suggestion and follow also Dig actions to get him fired.
> 
> user: SomedayDig
> 
> *"Thanks to Shaggy, I took his suggestion as I had never heard of Cheaterville. So, I got the xOM's pic off his corporate law firm and put his scummy ass on the site.
> 
> After a couple months, and in a particularly vindictive mood, I decided to use the site's "anonymous" email system. I emailed the top 2 partners of the firm. The xOM was senior counsel at his office out of a corporation of 10 offices. Google has Cheaterville as the top listing when searching his name. As we know, an attorney is only as "good" as his name.
> 
> Within a month he was no longer on the corporate website."*


Hi BD, what are your opinions of this post?

have you give it a thought?

you know, I remembered an article that in the good old days you could shot a man, if you find him in the bed with your wife and it was perfectly legal.

I don't mean one have to kill the OM (no good man want that burden), but a shot in the knee or the shoulder will make him remember the BS every winter .


----------



## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> did the OMW accept him back or they are still living appart?
> 
> also, when your ex finally find another job, send a formal email to HR (to reach the ethical board) and top excutives about him sleeping with subordinates, tell them them facts and how that lead to the divorce.


I don't know his current living situation at the moment. I know he's been kicked out at least three times and the OMW keeps letting him back in after he makes a bunch of false promises to her. OMW emailed me again today with follow questions about that note I told you guys about. I think she wants to work it out but she keeps getting burned by him. She's not as financially independent as I am and with a new born she has a lot more to lose by filing D. She just went back to work on Monday. Before the affair her plan was to be a SAHM. At least she knows now she can't depend on him anymore.

The ex is actively looking for another job. I see her on the computer every night filling out applications and as soon as she does, hopefully within the next 2-3 months, I will email HR. I will nuke HR eventually and I didn't forget about that. So come to find out his female boss is also a serial cheater and has been rug sweeping his behavior. Basically has that, "I don't want to know" attitude and just "keep it out of the office" mentality. It's like Sodom and Gomorrah at the employer.

I see no reason in the meantime not to post him up on cheaterville however. Why not I guess? The OM and his OMW are not very computer savvy or into social media. So I'm not sure what it will do if anything but I guess it can't hurt? Should throw up the crotch shot of his tiny d!ck he sent my ex. Like was something that small supposed to impress her? I don't even get it, I'd be embarassed. My ex told me her EA (ex boyfriend) and the OM both had small d!cks and were bad in bed. So I asked her, "So THAT'S what you want?" She just says the sex wasn't that important to her and it was more for emotional reasons. I wonder if she would of said that now that she knows about the Cialis prescription. Not a good sign when someone in their mid 30's needs that.


----------



## harrybrown

If the sex was not that important, then why all the lies and cheating and deception and pain? She is telling you what she wants you to hear, but not the truth.


----------



## BetrayedDad

harrybrown said:


> If the sex was not that important, then why all the lies and cheating and deception and pain? She is telling you what she wants you to hear, but not the truth.


I mean even bad sex still feels good and she admits that. The sex is what she gave him in exchange for all the attention he gave her. He made her feel good emotionally and she wanted to obviously return the favor. Most of the time in the back of his truck in an empty parking lot.... Classy.


----------



## turnera

BD, you'll find that that's very typical - the men pretend to care so they can get sex, the women pretend to want the sex so they can get the caring.


----------



## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> OMW emailed me again today with follow questions about that note I told you guys about. I think she wants to work it out but she keeps getting burned by him.


You mentioned the OM sleeping with other subordinates in the past, have you informed OMW about it?, if not, look for all the details with your ex telling her OMW knows and want the details, then return to OMW and tell her your ex just informed you that there were other women/woman in the past.



BetrayedDad said:


> So come to find out his female boss is also a serial cheater and has been rug sweeping his behavior.


just ignore his boss and send it to HR, and every top executive in the company, thanks to technology today you can find their mails (even personal mails), and remember to include your wife is not the first subordinate he is involved with.



BetrayedDad said:


> I see no reason in the meantime not to post him up on cheaterville however. Why not I guess? The OM and his OMW are not very computer savvy or into social media. So I'm not sure what it will do if anything but I guess it can't hurt? Should throw up the crotch shot of his tiny d!ck he sent my ex. Like was something that small supposed to impress her? I don't even get it, I'd be embarassed.


cheaterville is not so much for them (OM/OMW), but for all the society to see.

example: you add him with full name, where he lives, where he works, his picture, and the very important fact that he sleeps with their subordinates and has even ruined a marriage (you can add the details think necessary without exposing you or you ex)

then what happens?, in today society almost everybody look information on internet, so lets say OM is applying for a new better job, well HR from the new company will google his name a will find the information, job denied.

also friends and family look for people they know on google (cheterville is one of the first results on google), so reputation ruined.

finally customers, business associates, financial partners, also look on google the name the company they could/will be involved with, so they will notice this person who sleeps with employees under his authority is there, they will rethink two times before being involved with that company.

that is why DIG send an anonymous e-mail to the top partners of the lawyer firm, and he was fired.

so you could find the mails from the top people in the company, VP, CEO, CFO, and send them the link to cheaterville (anonymous), rumors like that about working environment can even affect shares and stock holders (well just in extreme cases like the CEO bein the OM)


----------



## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> You mentioned the OM sleeping with other subordinates in the past, have you informed OMW about it?, if not, look for all the details with your ex telling her OMW knows and want the details, then return to OMW and tell her your ex just informed you that there were other women/woman in the past.


I only know of one other subordinate and I haven't mentioned the other person yet because I don't really know much. I did met the subordinate before because her daughter came to my son's birthday party. 

The story I was told about two years ago was the OM hooked up with her while he was engaged to be married to the OMW. There was a brief EA and they just kissed in his car. Nothing more than that. What I pieced together is the other subordinate got too clingy and he basically dumped her. The other subordinate no longer works there and my ex no longer speaks to her. I have absolutely no evidence to support any of this, just office gossip. So I've been hesitant to drop this bomb shell. 

I only know this story because my ex and the subordinate used to be good friends. The crazy part to me is my ex KNEW this story beforehand and still BELIEVED the garbage OM fed her about "being together". OBVIOUSLY, he fed the same garbage to the other subordinate. Why else would she have gotten so clingy after a kiss? I mean how stupid can my ex be???


----------



## manticore

Hi BD

your thread besides to update the situation and conversations about the affair, you can also use it to deal with the whole process, i mean rant and vent your anger, if something trigger you during the day, post it, if you are getting new hobbies to distract you or the actions you are taking to move on, share them, see your Thread as a therapeutic journal to move on.

many people get new hobbies or retake sessions in the gym, it seems that anger and frustations is very good to lift weight, many OP get in to the best shape of their life, like shamwow, rookie and Disenchanted.

Disenchanted even brags his new six pack, and once in a while put in his profile pictures of his new body.

Is better to leave the anger and stress here that at home with the kids.


----------



## dymo

BetrayedDad said:


> She doesn't have to live with me to sleep with me. So I'm not sure why you're so fixated on the sexual component.


I'll take a crack at this.

You keep saying that you're not together anymore. You tell it to us, you tell it to your wife, you tell it to yourself. 

That's a lie.

You live with her. You have sex with her. There is the expectation that she stay faithful. You're together. As much as you may tell yourself otherwise, the two of you are together. The divorce meant nothing.

If that is what you want, fine. If it isn't, something needs to change.


----------



## BetrayedDad

dymo said:


> I'll take a crack at this.
> 
> You keep saying that you're not together anymore. You tell it to us, you tell it to your wife, you tell it to yourself.
> 
> That's a lie.
> 
> You live with her. You have sex with her. There is the expectation that she stay faithful. You're together. As much as you may tell yourself otherwise, the two of you are together. The divorce meant nothing.
> 
> If that is what you want, fine. If it isn't, something needs to change.


You have a valid point. 

I don't know what I want. I know I don't want to pretend like nothing happened. The anger from the betrayal made me see her clearly for the POS that she was and I rammed that D down her throat. Now that the anger has subsided I've slipped back into my old beta habits. 

While we are D now, you're right in a way. She hasn't had to face SERIOUS consequences for her actions yet. She desperately wants to go back to the way things were prior to the affair. All of a sudden, that person who was basically dead to her for 6 months, looks pretty damn good right about now. Her exit affair blew up in her face so now she is executing plan B. 

I won the war. I got what I wanted. So why am I so afraid to strike the final blow and boot her out? How it will affect my kids always comes to my mind first but I know that's a cop out. I don't really want to be with a person like her who would do something like that to me. I know I deserve better and I want better. I'm scared of venturing into that new frontier I guess...


----------



## happyman64

BD

There is nothing wrong with being scared as long as you realize that only your fear is holding you back.

I think when you are in the position you are in you set a date in your head to pull the trigger.

The trigger can mean you give her the final heave ho. The trigger can mean that you will rethink your relationship with your Ex.

Just know that the final decision is yours. Take the time to decide what you really want in life and who really want in your life.

Hm


----------



## vi_bride04

BetrayedDad said:


> How it will affect my kids always comes to my mind first but I know that's a cop out.


How will it affect your kids living as a divorced couple and act like you are married yet she still sees other men?

That will totally warp their view on what a healthy adult relationship should be like.


----------



## BetrayedDad

vi_bride04 said:


> How will it affect your kids living as a divorced couple and act like you are married yet she still sees other men?
> 
> That will totally warp their view on what a healthy adult relationship should be like.


She will not see another person because if she does she's out of my house immediately. I promise that much. I'm not going to put up with one more second of that nonsense. She wouldn't anyway cause right now she's desperately trying to fix us. I'm just sitting and watching. She's making the effort at the moment.

Even if I were alone and started dating I wouldn't introduce anyone to my kids until it became a serious relationship. 

She disgustingly had no problem introducing them to the OM.


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> So why am I so afraid to strike the final blow and boot her out? How it will affect my kids always comes to my mind first but I know that's a cop out.


Because you're codependent and you aren't doing any work on yourself to FIX that. (and yes, the kids IS a screen to hide behind)


----------



## BetrayedDad

happyman64 said:


> BD
> 
> There is nothing wrong with being scared as long as you realize that only your fear is holding you back.
> 
> I think when you are in the position you are in you set a date in your head to pull the trigger.
> 
> The trigger can mean you give her the final heave ho. The trigger can mean that you will rethink your relationship with your Ex.
> 
> Just know that the final decision is yours. Take the time to decide what you really want in life and who really want in your life.
> 
> Hm


I know it's the fear. I'm not under any illusions that some how she is a better person all of a sudden.

January 1st keeps popping in my head. New year and new beginings I suppose. Give it until then to do something. Either kick her out or jump back in. If I had to decide today I would kick her out. I'm really just waiting around to see if I have a change of heart. I know I could never trust her again and I'd have to accept that kind of a dysfunctional relationship. I definitely will NEVER marry her again. I know I'm stupid but I'm not THAT stupid.


----------



## happyman64

BetrayedDad said:


> I know it's the fear. I'm not under any illusions that some how she is a better person all of a sudden.
> 
> January 1st keeps popping in my head. New year and new beginings I suppose. Give it until then to do something. Either kick her out or jump back in. If I had to decide today I would kick her out. I'm really just waiting around to see if I have a change of heart. I know I could never trust her again and I'd have to accept that kind of a dysfunctional relationship. I definitely will NEVER marry her again. I know I'm stupid but I'm not THAT stupid.


Ahhhh You have come so far.

Only you can decide what you will tolerate or can learn to live with.

Doesn't it suck that we love these dysfunctional people......

Your Ex is obviously learning her lesson. 

Watch her actions. Enjoy the holidays.

Who knows you might actually be surprised!

HM


----------



## bfree

BD, what had she actually done aside from acting more like a wife should act? Btw, funny how she started acting like a wife only once she was no longer a wife. What concrete actions had she taken to transform herself into someone you can begin to trust?


----------



## harrybrown

So when are you going on your next date? You are divorced, she cheated and you were not even her backup plan.


----------



## BobSimmons

A man decides on a course of action of follows through with it. x pages of this journey and the rooster saved from slaughter has decided to do a u-turn and walk straight back into the slaughter house.

You haven't won have you? You haven't gotten what you wanted. Pride, self worth and validation of self. You say yourself you slipped back into old beta habits, no you didn't slip back, it was all an act, a ruse intended to illicit a reaction out of your WW, it was all surface, but underneath the real you was still there. So now your WW is giving you attention even though clearly you know you're a plan B, the old you pops back out again and readily accepts the situation.

Look at yourself, who you are and who you want to be and how you want your kids to view their father after what their mother did and what kind of example he sets both morally and personally.

Why does a man settle for second best in life when there's a whole world out there ready and willing to embrace him and show him the wonders of real nurturing relationships and bonds?
You owe a duty to yourself to be happy.

Sorry if this comes off as ranty but to read your journey and watch you chuck it away just because..quite frankly I think it does you a disservice. 

Good luck to you, whatever path you choose.


----------



## BetrayedDad

bfree said:


> BD, what had she actually done aside from acting more like a wife should act?


That's about it really... She's says shes trying to fix herself but honestly the communication while improved is still lacking in some areas. She's been very graphic on the what she did aspect of the affair. However, I get alot of, "I don't know why" when I try to dig deeper on why part of it. 



bfree said:


> Btw, funny how she started acting like a wife only once she was no longer a wife.


She started acting like a wife when she finally realized the POSOM was never going to be a real relationship and not a second before. It took six more weeks of lies from him after dday for her to accept that he was just using her and there was no future with him.



bfree said:


> What concrete actions had she taken to transform herself into someone you can begin to trust?


Nothing concrete, just alot of trying and attempting. I asked her yesterday how can I trust that this will never happen again and she told me there are no 100% guarantees in life. That even I could cheat on her if temped sufficiently enough.

She acknowledges that she did a bad thing and that there is no justification for it. She felt our relationship was dead, we were over, that she was a zombie going through the motions, that I had no interest in her anymore, that she was just a housewife to cook and clean for me, etc. etc. The way she sees it is she had a relationship with the OM and she had absolutely no relationship with me anymore. 

This blew my mind because A) WE ARE STILL MARRIED so how can you say we have no relationship and B) if that was true then WHEN WERE YOU GOING TO TELL ME WE HAD NO RELATIONSHIP? Apparently, I should have just known this. News to me.

I just find it interesting that I don't remember things being even 10% as bad as she claims they were. How can two people have such a different view of the same relationship? Was it super exciting? No, we've been married for 8 years, both work full time and have two kids. I understand we were in a rut but we still got along well. I still loved her. 

Our distance grew dramatically only AFTER the affair started and she detached herself from me completely so she could give her heart to him. She was so checkout of our relationship she cut off all physical contact including kissing or telling me she loved me. Again his only happened after the affair started yet she points to it constantly as an example of how are relationship grew apart. 

If her percerption of me was so bad she could of just left me. If she didn't want to leave me then she could have tried to fix our relationship. She claims she did just she really didn't do much of anything. Instead, she decided to act like a completely selfish immoral person. If I was so horrible then what did the OMW do to you for you to become a homewrecker?

In the end everything points to one thing. She just wanted to be utterly SELFISH. She didn't care who got hurt (me, her kids, the OMW etc.) as long as she got her needs satisfied. She didn't care if her job found out, if her future was ruined. She didn't care about anything except getting her next emotional fix and it is beyond belief that anyone could be so narcissistic. Then come home and pretend nothing happened.....

Just SELFISH.


----------



## dymo

BetrayedDad said:


> You have a valid point.
> 
> I don't know what I want. I know I don't want to pretend like nothing happened. The anger from the betrayal made me see her clearly for the POS that she was and I rammed that D down her throat. Now that the anger has subsided I've slipped back into my old beta habits.
> 
> While we are D now, you're right in a way. She hasn't had to face SERIOUS consequences for her actions yet. She desperately wants to go back to the way things were prior to the affair. All of a sudden, that person who was basically dead to her for 6 months, looks pretty damn good right about now. Her exit affair blew up in her face so now she is executing plan B.
> 
> I won the war. I got what I wanted. So why am I so afraid to strike the final blow and boot her out? How it will affect my kids always comes to my mind first but I know that's a cop out. I don't really want to be with a person like her who would do something like that to me. I know I deserve better and I want better. I'm scared of venturing into that new frontier I guess...


Not wanting to boot out the mother of your children before she has a place lined up is perfectly understandable. There's no need to rush it. Compared to a lot of other divorces, you're well ahead of schedule. But if you want to move on it does need to happen. What would you say is a reasonable timeframe for finding a suitable apartment? 

But having sex with her? Good if you want to R, but not a good idea if you want to move on.


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> She started *acting *like a wife when she finally realized the POSOM was never going to be a real relationship and *not a second before*.


Well, there you go, then. Her ACTING was just that - the role she plays to reel you back in. There is no love behind it, only protection of herself. You are a tool to be used for HER benefit. She sets her sights on whatever man gives her the most benefit. How could you accept that?


----------



## BetrayedDad

dymo said:


> Not wanting to boot out the mother of your children before she has a place lined up is perfectly understandable. There's no need to rush it. Compared to a lot of other divorces, you're well ahead of schedule. But if you want to move on it does need to happen. What would you say is a reasonable timeframe for finding a suitable apartment?
> 
> But having sex with her? Good if you want to R, but not a good idea if you want to move on.


I know and I can see it's giving her false hope that we will work things out despite me telling her we're not together. I do want to move on. I was literally divorced in one month. I would say two months should be enough time to find a place. I need to tell her first that she needs to go. I did but when she asked for R she assumed she could stay until I decided otherwise. I mentioned her leaving and we maybe try to R and she said she would just go to her sisters. I WANT her to find a place and the only will she will is if I tell her we are 100% done. I waiting for a certainty that I'm starting to think doesn't exist. I'm always going to have a doubt.


----------



## BK23

BetrayedDad said:


> That's about it really... She's says shes trying to fix herself but honestly the communication while improved is still lacking in some areas. She's been very graphic on the what she did aspect of the affair. However, I get alot of, "I don't know why" when I try to dig deeper on why part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> She started acting like a wife when she finally realized the POSOM was never going to be a real relationship and not a second before. It took six more weeks of lies from him after dday for her to accept that he was just using her and there was no future with him.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing concrete, just alot of trying and attempting. I asked her yesterday how can I trust that this will never happen again and she told me there are no 100% guarantees in life. That even I could cheat on her if temped sufficiently enough.
> 
> She acknowledges that she did a bad thing and that there is no justification for it. She felt our relationship was dead, we were over, that she was a zombie going through the motions, that I had no interest in her anymore, that she was just a housewife to cook and clean for me, etc. etc. The way she sees it is she had a relationship with the OM and she had absolutely no relationship with me anymore.
> 
> This blew my mind because A) WE ARE STILL MARRIED so how can you say we have no relationship and B) if that was true then WHEN WERE YOU GOING TO TELL ME WE HAD NO RELATIONSHIP? Apparently, I should have just known this. News to me.
> 
> I just find it interesting that I don't remember things being even 10% as bad as she claims they were. How can two people have such a different view of the same relationship? Was it super exciting? No, we've been married for 8 years, both work full time and have two kids. I understand we were in a rut but we still got along well. I still loved her.
> 
> Our distance grew dramatically only AFTER the affair started and she detached herself from me completely so she could give her heart to him. She was so checkout of our relationship she cut off all physical contact including kissing or telling me she loved me. Again his only happened after the affair started yet she points to it constantly as an example of how are relationship grew apart.
> 
> If her percerption of me was so bad she could of just left me. If she didn't want to leave me then she could have tried to fix our relationship. She claims she did just she really didn't do much of anything. Instead, she decided to act like a completely selfish immoral person. If I was so horrible then what did the OMW do to you for you to become a homewrecker?
> 
> In the end everything points to one thing. She just wanted to be utterly SELFISH. She didn't care who got hurt (me, her kids, the OMW etc.) as long as she got her needs satisfied. She didn't care if her job found out, if her future was ruined. She didn't care about anything except getting her next emotional fix and it is beyond belief that anyone could be so narcissistic. Then come home and pretend nothing happened.....
> 
> Just SELFISH.



This kind of post-hoc rationalization is extremely common with cheaters. It's a very human instinct to protect ourselves from the reality of our misdeeds. No one likes to acknowledge that they are a piece of useless trash. Your marriage wasn't at all like she has characterized it. She is just re-writing history to protect herself.

The fact that she is still engaging in this behavior tells you everything you need to know about her true level of remorse and the chance of successful R.


----------



## LongWalk

She introduced your children to the OM? How old are they? Do they know that he was the cause of your divorce?

This sex that you have. Do you kiss her with passion? Does she say she loves you? Are you having angry sex? If so, does she like it because she deserves to be punished?

OM was not well endowed and he wasn't good in bed. You cannot compete with that.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BK23 said:


> This kind of post-hoc rationalization is extremely common with cheaters. It's a very human instinct to protect ourselves from the reality of our misdeeds. No one likes to acknowledge that they are a piece of useless trash. Your marriage wasn't at all like she has characterized it. She is just re-writing history to protect herself.


I think you're so right about this. Because everytime she starts to she literally falls apart in tears and can't speak. She can't face what she did so she demonizes me. Or she demonized to so she could justify doing what she did. Doesn't really matter. Human decency alone should of been enough. No one deserves to have their heart riped out of their chest. Even if I was a total stranger to her.


----------



## BK23

BetrayedDad said:


> I think you're so right about this. Because everytime she starts to she literally falls apart in tears and can't speak. She can't face what she did so she demonizes me. Or she demonized to so she could justify doing what she did. Doesn't really matter. Human decency alone should of been enough. No one deserves to have their heart riped out of their chest. Even if I was a total stranger to her.


I forget, are you in IC? Is she?

It's up to you whether to R, but you know she isn't ready. IF you are going to R after this kind of massive betrayal, she needs to own her behavior, understand why she did it, and find strategies to make sure it won't repeat.

She hasn't done any of these three things. It's not clear she is capable of that level of bravery/self-control/self-examination. Please, for your own sanity and well being, get her out of your house. 

I'm really affected by your story, man, and I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can't wait to read six months from now when she is out of your house and you are enjoying the dating scene.


----------



## alte Dame

BD, take a very deep breath and ask yourself how you see your life five or ten years from now. If what you envision is a happier place, moved on from the trauma and drama of your XW, then just make her leave.

If what you see still has your XW in the picture as your W, then you have very, very serious work to do, both of you, for that to really happen. It will be years of continuing lying and dramatics if she doesn't reform herself & you can't force her to do that. She continues to lie to this day.

I really hope that you see yourself happier and healthier without her in your life as your W. She has been a terrible W and hasn't proven that she will be any different in the future.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> She introduced your children to the OM? *YES* How old are they? *Toddlers* Do they know that he was the cause of your divorce? *They don't even know we are divorced. They are too young to understand.*
> 
> This sex that you have. Do you kiss her with passion? *All the sex after dday there was no kissing. Now since her R attempt we kiss with passion.* Does she say she loves you? *She has but she's afraid to be vunerable so rarely.* Are you having angry sex? *Not angry but more kinky.* If so, does she like it because she deserves to be punished? *I think she does. It is more aggressive. *
> 
> OM was not well endowed and he wasn't good in bed. You cannot compete with that. *I can't compete with the fantasy. She didn't sleep with him cause she wanted an orgasm. She told me he couldn't even give her one. She did it to emotionally bond with him*.


----------



## turnera

She'll never get that kind of help or introspection as long as you are allowing her to ride on your coattails. Sending her away will help HER.


----------



## alte Dame

LongWalk said:


> OM was not well endowed and he wasn't good in bed. You cannot compete with that.


Words of wisdom .


----------



## movin on

Your being played.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

movin on said:


> Your being played.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel like your talking to me.


----------



## turnera

Ugh...have to do it.

It's "you're" - as in "you are."

"Your" is a possessive to describe something that belongs to you. As in "your coat is black."


----------



## MrHappyHat

BetrayedDad said:


> She's been very graphic on the what she did aspect of the affair. However, I get alot of, "I don't know why" when I try to dig deeper on why part of it.
> 
> ....
> 
> In the end everything points to one thing. She just wanted to be utterly SELFISH. She didn't care who got hurt (me, her kids, the OMW etc.) as long as she got her needs satisfied. She didn't care if her job found out, if her future was ruined. She didn't care about anything except getting her next emotional fix and it is beyond belief that anyone could be so narcissistic. Then come home and pretend nothing happened.....
> 
> Just SELFISH.


Your last paragraph explains 'why'. She did it because she wanted to.

In her mind she had everything she needed, from you, and then she wanted something more, so she went and got it.

Now she doesn't have what she needs (emotional comfort, financial security, affection, respect, etc) so she's working on getting that.

From you.

She's going to fly her true colors once she gets those things back. You won't see them though, because you'll have either kicked her to the curb by then, or she'll be much more cagey, as she has learned that OpSec is important in such matters.


----------



## MrHappyHat

turnera said:


> Ugh...have to do it.
> 
> It's "you're" - as in "you are."
> 
> "Your" is a possessive to describe something that belongs to you. As in "your coat is black."


They're are people out their that just don't get that.


----------



## turnera

lol


----------



## alte Dame

turnera said:


> Ugh...have to do it.
> 
> It's "you're" - as in "you are."
> 
> "Your" is a possessive to describe something that belongs to you. As in "your coat is black."


I smell a prescriptivist .


----------



## turnera

Is it bad that I'm an editor and I don't even know what that means?


----------



## alte Dame

I don't know if it's bad. Editors typically believe in the absolute rightness of the current standard in terms of style and form. Linguists look at language in terms of systems and historical change and don't think an absolute rightness exists in the average definition.

The editor would be a prescriptivist, i.e., someone who believes that we can prescribe what is correct in the language.

The linguist is a descriptivist, i.e., someone who studies and describes the language system at various stages.

So...for the linguist, the common use of 'your' for 'you're' could well be a harbinger of a future where the two forms have combined. This makes the usage interesting rather than irritating to the linguist. (Although I sympathize with the irritation.)


----------



## carmen ohio

alte Dame said:


> BD, take a very deep breath and ask yourself how you see your life five or ten years from now. If what you envision is a happier place, moved on from the trauma and drama of your XW, then just make her leave.
> 
> If what you see still has your XW in the picture as your W, then you have very, very serious work to do, both of you, for that to really happen. It will be years of continuing lying and dramatics if she doesn't reform herself & you can't force her to do that. She continues to lie to this day.
> 
> I really hope that you see yourself happier and healthier without her in your life as your W. She has been a terrible W and hasn't proven that she will be any different in the future.


alte Dame,

I agree very much with this advice. I still maintain, however, that whatever outcome the OP wishes -- a life with his WFW or without her -- the best way forward is a period of separation so that they can both come to understand themselves better, start to heal and fix themselves, and then make informed decisions about their respective futures (see my post #671).

Living together is a mistake because it will hinder OP's WFW from fully coming to grips with what she's done and changing herself for the better and it will prevent OP from rebuilding his self-esteem and exploring all of his options. If OP starts dating while living with his FWF, the chance of eventual R will drop nearly to zero and his children will suffer from living in a disfunctional family environment.

The only way I see their continuing to live together working out for everyone involved (OP, WFW and children) is if the OP and his WFW are prepared _now_ to commit to R and start _immediately_ to do what that requires (complete honesty and transparency, marital fidelity on both of their parts, MC, etc.) with the goal of _eventually_ renewing their marriage vows.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

turnera said:


> Ugh...have to do it.
> 
> It's "you're" - as in "you are."
> 
> "Your" is a possessive to describe something that belongs to you. As in "your coat is black."


I think your write!


----------



## Lovemytruck

ArmyofJuan said:


> I think your write!


Your write to! LOL! 

What can be said to get BD moving forward?

IMO you should start looking for the next woman. I did read that the D was near, or here. Do use it as a motivator, not as a crutch. Another woman is a way to re-focus yourself as a man. Do not look for another woman to coddle you, or become a second mother.

She is a bad roommate. One of you need to get out of the house. It would be a better move to leave than have another war trying to get her evicted, IMO.

Bag the sex. Yuck! Makes me think you are having it for her rent. You can do better. Sex with love is MUCH better.

Salvage your decency, and move on. Look for a different person to motivate your pursuit of happiness. The decision you made was D. Why are you allowing her decision to R even be considered?

Maybe I am sounding harsh, but it is time. It is time to end the ordeal. A clean break will cause less bleeding for your children too.

FDR said that the only thing to fear, is fear itself.

It is difficult. I went through much of the same agony. 
YOU WILL BE OK.


----------



## TDSC60

turnera said:


> Ugh...have to do it.
> 
> It's "you're" - as in "you are."
> 
> "Your" is a possessive to describe something that belongs to you. As in "your coat is black."


Teacher?

Never mind. Just saw editor. That explains it


----------



## turnera

TDSC60 said:


> Teacher?


Editor. Who has to read - and fix - stuff like this, from doctors no less, every day. How they made it through medical school when they didn't even understand what they were reading is a mystery.


----------



## Lovemytruck

turnera said:


> Editor. Who has to read - and fix - stuff like this, from doctors no less, every day. How they made it through medical school when they didn't even understand what they were reading is a mystery.


My happy Friday is even better now! Thanks for venting and making me smile!

We all love those sexy editors that make us try a little harder to use our language as God intended.


----------



## turnera

lol

Don't know about how God intended, but I do know I have to follow the current rules. Even in the 25 years I've been doing it, rules have changed, so I just do what the rule books say.


----------



## Catherine602

turnera said:


> Ugh...have to do it.
> 
> It's "you're" - as in "you are."
> 
> "Your" is a possessive to describe something that belongs to you. As in "your coat is black."





MrHappyHat said:


> They're are people out their that just don't get that.


I have to do it... 

More frequently than not, contraction errors are misspellings not lack of knowledge.

Moreover, many people don't write often and are aware of their poor skills. It is probably better to be tolerant of grammatical errors. I'd hate to inhibit poor writers who need a safe place to vent or seek help. As long as you get the meaning, it matters little. 

In defense of myself and maybe others, I make all kinds of mistakes in informal writing. I rarely make errors in carefully edited formal writing. 

Just sayin'


----------



## manticore

Hi BD

ooh boy i stopped reading your thread one day and now I found so much new information, BD as you know I am against reconcilation in your case, in the end is your decision, and at least hope that if you take the R path, you do it under the right conditions and the right set of mind, and right now you have neither of them.
I know you say you will take until january to decide, but under your actual conditions like: having sex, kissing, she not accepting full resposability but behaving like perfect wife, demonizing you. you will never have the assurance that her intentions are honest. do you really want to live like that?.



BetrayedDad said:


> She disgustingly had no problem introducing them to the OM.


So she introduced the supposed new stepdaddy to the kids, you have to be *fvcking me*.
(sorry not a constructive comment but i had to let it out).



BetrayedDad said:


> *I know it's the fear. I'm not under any illusions that some how she is a better person all of a sudden.*
> I know I could never trust her again and I'd have to accept that kind of a dysfunctional relationship. I definitely will NEVER marry her again. I know I'm stupid but I'm not THAT stupid.


BD

I reread some of your posts and you hinted that you were married for 8 years with your ex, but she had her first affair just when you were 2 years in the marriage, in most marriages that is supposed to be still honey moon period, then you said all changed after that, you two were never the same (i guess you mean from your part, the way you felt about her, your trust, your unconditional love).

That Behavior speaks tons about your ex, she just cannot be trusted or she just does not love you, for 3/4 of your marriage you have lived under that conditions, why you want to even consider returning to that enviroment?




BetrayedDad said:


> I get alot of, "I don't know why" when I try to dig deeper on why part of it.


this does not show real remorse, she just want to bury all she did without confronting it, why? because confronting her actions is painful, difficult, shameful, is see the worst of herself. So she wants a easy way out, that is not fit to a real R.




BetrayedDad said:


> I asked her yesterday how can I trust that this will never happen again and she told me there are no 100% guarantees in life. That even I could cheat on her if temped sufficiently enough.


Do you realize that she is not just justifying her atrocious actions but also telling you that this could happen again?

after all she already had 2 A and there is no guarantees in life

do you think that are the words of a remorseful wife, that made one in a life mistake a would give anything to have the love of her life back?




BetrayedDad said:


> She felt our relationship was dead, we were over, that she was a zombie going through the motions, that I had no interest in her anymore, that she was just a housewife to cook and clean for me, etc. etc.


Then why she wants your relationship back? you have not changed, you are still the same man you were 2 months ago, the only difference is that you are divorced and you have all the good stuff, house, good income, the kids, do you see where i am going?



BetrayedDad said:


> The way she sees it is she had a relationship with the OM and she had absolutely no relationship with me anymore.
> 
> This blew my mind because A) WE ARE STILL MARRIED so how can you say we have no relationship and B) if that was true then WHEN WERE YOU GOING TO TELL ME WE HAD NO RELATIONSHIP? Apparently, I should have just known this. News to me.


i felt little sick on the stomach when i read this, again, then why she wants a relationship with you now?



BetrayedDad said:


> In the end everything points to one thing. She just wanted to be utterly SELFISH. She didn't care who got hurt (me, her kids, the OMW etc.) as long as she got her needs satisfied. She didn't care if her job found out, if her future was ruined. She didn't care about anything except getting her next emotional fix and it is beyond belief that anyone could be so narcissistic. Then come home and pretend nothing happened.....
> 
> Just SELFISH.


I could not have said it better, then, again, why do you want a woman like this as life companion?

please don't say, "for the kids", because when they fly from home you still will be with her.



BetrayedDad said:


> when she asked for R she assumed she could stay until I decided otherwise. I mentioned her leaving and we maybe try to R and she said she would just go to her sisters. I WANT her to find a place and the only will she will is if I tell her we are 100% done.


*Totally unacceptable, is the BS who impose the conditions for R, under his pace, the WS should be glad for the opportunity and understand why the BS is keeping his guard up.*

your ex by imposing conditions like that is presuring to R as fast as possible, she can not do that you are giving a third chance.

I will continue in other posts


----------



## illwill

Dont reconcile. File. Wait a few months then destroy him.


----------



## Kukuy

R never works man... even if you decide to give it your all, she now knows that she can get away with this and still keep you around!

A few weeks back i found an old phone that had some saved messenger conversations and i found out she noy only did this this last time and one other time... but MULTIPLE TIMES and often at times when we were supposedly the happiest couple ever.

Sure shes at fault for being a *****, but on the ohter hand I cant help it to put blame on myself for believeing that she would never do this to me again...

dont reconcile man, i hate to say it but it really never works!


----------



## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> You will never have the assurance that her intentions are honest. do you really want to live like that?


I know I never will. No, I do not want to live like that. 




manticore said:


> So she introduced the supposed new stepdaddy to the kids, you have to be *fvcking me*.
> (sorry not a constructive comment but i had to let it out).


It's OK... I said the same thing to her.




manticore said:


> That Behavior speaks tons about your ex, she just cannot be trusted or she just does not love you, for 3/4 of your marriage you have lived under that conditions, why you want to even consider returning to that enviroment?


My mom is convinced she never loved me. I unconditionally trusted her prior to the first EA. I have never fully trusted her since then. Now I don't trust her at all. 




manticore said:


> this does not show real remorse, she just want to bury all she did without confronting it, why? because confronting her actions is painful, difficult, shameful, is see the worst of herself. So she wants a easy way out, that is not fit to a real R.


She doesn't know what to say because the answer is basically, "Cause I wanted satisfy my selfish desires and be bad." I wouldn't be surprised if she got off on being immoral. It's a thrill for some people and she feels shame for it. She wouldn't just come out and say it that's why she has no answer...




manticore said:


> Do you realize that she is not just justifying her atrocious actions but also telling you that this could happen again?
> 
> after all she already had 2 A and there is no guarantees in life
> 
> do you think that are the words of a remorseful wife, that made one in a life mistake a would give anything to have the love of her life back?


Nope not at all. I question if I ever was the love of her life.




manticore said:


> Then why she wants your relationship back? you have not changed, you are still the same man you were 2 months ago, the only difference is that you are divorced and you have all the good stuff, house, good income, the kids, do you see where i am going?


Exactly the same man. 2 months ago I was repulsive now she wants me back. I know it's for the stability. I guess I'm a better alternative than a dumpy apartment being the OM's mistress.




manticore said:


> I could not have said it better, then, again, why do you want a woman like this as life companion?
> 
> please don't say, "for the kids", because when they fly from home you still will be with her.



I don't want someone like her. I want who I thought she was. I'm clearly seeing that she can't change. 

Not for the kids though it breaks my heart having to have to explain to them why we can't live together anymore. 




manticore said:


> *Totally unacceptable, is the BS who impose the conditions for R, under his pace, the WS should be glad for the opportunity and understand why the BS is keeping his guard up.*
> 
> your ex by imposing conditions like that is presuring to R as fast as possible, she can not do that you are giving a third chance.


I gave her alot of credit last week. This week not so much. Her old self is starting to creep through. She feels like we talk about it too much and I don't like the answers she gives me. She been raising her voice out of frustrating and I have to remind her she has no right to be mad. I ask her the same question 50 times cause I can't get a real response. I would be happy with a real answer instead of, "I don't know".


----------



## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> I waiting for a certainty that I'm starting to think doesn't exist. I'm always going to have a doubt.


That is why you need a real remorseful wife to achieve a sucessfully R, if not all the pain and suffering is not worth the try.

there are some real remorseful wives here in TAM, you can check their Threads by looking them by user name.

mrs mathias - married to mr mathias
EI - married to B1
changingme - married to devastateddad

all they took responsability of their infidelity, they came looking advice of how to heal their partner, believe me, here in TAM nobody made it easy for them, many users spitted fire against them for months, but they endured it, responded questions and insults, i am sure that many times other BS made them cry in the other side of the computer.


They read so many books about recovering from affairs, healing their partner, they gave up their social life online (FB, SkyeP, mails), they give total transparency to their BS, passwords, GPS in their vehicules and cell phones, they confessed and confroted their families ans social circles and that was just the beggining of the R (more accurate, that was prereconcilation).

Now you have to consider the negative effects of R, you don't feel them right now because you don't see you ex as yours anymore, but when you try to open to her you will feel them:

- the mind movies
- the constant insecurity 
- the explosive anger against her
- the depression 
- the triggers
- the lashes against her
- the constant questions about the affair
- the waking in the middle of the night sweating

If she is not totally commited to you, she will not be able to stand all the presure. In the process she will be forced to confront her selfish acts one and again, she will be strees and hurt by your changes of mood, she will have to confront family and friends accepting her faults and being humble, if she is not commited enough you will end hurting each other more or you will end rug sweeping like with the first affair and she will fall in old patterns again.

thats is why i don't consider reconcilation to your case as a valid option.
(by the way the process i mentioned above take years to be fulfilled, all the users i mentioned above are still trying to cope and considering if they took the right choice, even with sincerely remorseful companions)

read the Thread from the users I mentioned above it will give you a good insight of the situation you will be living if you consider to reconcile.


----------



## illwill

Kukuy said:


> R never works man... even if you decide to give it your all, she now knows that she can get away with this and still keep you around!
> 
> A few weeks back i found an old phone that had some saved messenger conversations and i found out she noy only did this this last time and one other time... but MULTIPLE TIMES and often at times when we were supposedly the happiest couple ever.
> 
> Sure shes at fault for being a *****, but on the ohter hand I cant help it to put blame on myself for believeing that she would never do this to me again...
> 
> dont reconcile man, i hate to say it but it really never works!


It works out sometimes. But it is rare. Most cheaters dont deserve a second chance.


----------



## LongWalk

alte Dame said:


> I don't know if it's bad. Editors typically believe in the absolute rightness of the current standard in terms of style and form. Linguists look at language in terms of systems and historical change and don't think an absolute rightness exists in the average definition.
> 
> The editor would be a prescriptivist, i.e., someone who believes that we can prescribe what is correct in the language.
> 
> The linguist is a descriptivist, i.e., someone who studies and describes the language system at various stages.
> 
> So...for the linguist, the common use of 'your' for 'you're' could well be a harbinger of a future where the two forms have combined. This makes the usage interesting rather than irritating to the linguist. (Although I sympathize with the irritation.)


The Internet has changed the way we *right*. Who thought we would punctuate with WTF and little pictograms?


----------



## LongWalk

> I gave her alot of credit last week. This week not so much. Her old self is starting to creep through. She feels like we talk about it too much and I don't like the answers she gives me. She been raising her voice out of frustrating and I have to remind her she has no right to be mad. I ask her the same question 50 times cause I can't get a real response. I would be happy with a real answer instead of, "I don't know".


Tell your wife that the divorce is going to be good your relationship. It is going to force you to treat each other with more respect. 

You are not booting her out of your home. She gave herself to other men and in so doing left your marriage. The divorce is a formality. Tell her:

"Honey, I know that I have loved you more than you love me. That is a fact. Otherwise, you could not have treated me the way you did. Right now you don't want to move out because it is uncomfortable. But maybe once you leave, you'll be relieved because you will realize that you don't really love me.

Go out and take the freedom you wanted. If you find in your heart that I am the one, you will tell me and I will hear you in a different way. Our marriage is not reliable. If we are going to be married we must rebuild from the bottom."

All these "I don't knows" from her. Tell her they are ax blows cutting down the tree of your love.


----------



## HangingOnHope

LongWalk said:


> The Internet has changed the way we *right*. Who thought we would punctuate with WTF and little pictograms?[/QUOTE
> 
> ikr? i mean ikwym!


----------



## alte Dame

LongWalk said:


> The Internet has changed the way we *right*. Who thought we would punctuate with WTF and little pictograms?


Who would have imagined that we'd regress to using little pictures? It's actually pretty shocking and funny when you think about it. Thanks, LW. You gave me a laugh today. Who'd a thunk I'd get a real laugh in CWI? WTH? I meant to write that 'flowerkitty' approves, but I don't really have to, do I? :flowerkitty:


----------



## LongWalk

alte Dame said:


> Who would have imagined that we'd regress to using little pictures? It's actually pretty shocking and funny when you think about it. Thanks, LW. You gave me a laugh today. Who'd a thunk I'd get a real laugh in CWI? WTH? I meant to write that 'flowerkitty' approves, but I don't really have to, do I? :flowerkitty:


TAM is the first Internet forum that I ever got sucked into... or into which I got sucked. I am the only person who goes back and edits my posts to repair faulty sentences from three months ago because I am worried about what people will think about me. I already admitted that I am dysfunctional. Furthermore, I routinely offer all sorts of opinions, which if taken seriously might lead to all sorts of complications.

Many years ago I once wrote an article in which I split an infinitive. Re-reading it I felt shame. Now I write half truths and propaganda for money and sleep at night with minimal misgivings.


----------



## alte Dame

LongWalk said:


> TAM is the first Internet forum that I ever got sucked into... or into which I got sucked. I am the only person who goes back and edits my posts to repair faulty sentences from three months ago because I am worried about what people will think about me. I already admitted that I am dysfunctional. Furthermore, I routinely offer all sorts of opinions, which if taken seriously might lead to all sorts of complications.
> 
> Many years ago I once wrote an article in which I split an infinitive. Re-reading it I felt shame. Now I write half truths and propaganda for money and sleep at night with minimal misgivings.


Pat on the head.....

You know, of course, that split infinitives as no-no's just reflect the rabid views of close-minded prescriptivist people who have no idea of language structure and the fact of language change, right? You were just pulling my leg on that one, right? I think I knew that.

You can also end sentences with preps and particles & you can begin sentences with 'because.' English speakers have been doing all of these things quite naturally for thousands of years. They are all natural in our syntax.

But you know that, right? I know you knew that, LW, and this is gratifying to me as a linguistic Sisyphus who must constantly present a point of view to people who have given literally zero thought to the ramifications of the indisputable fact of language variation and change, and the idea that a given form can simply not be correct or incorrect in absolute terms.

(Sorry for the tj, OP.)


----------



## Chaparral

alte Dame said:


> I don't know if it's bad. Editors typically believe in the absolute rightness of the current standard in terms of style and form. Linguists look at language in terms of systems and historical change and don't think an absolute rightness exists in the average definition.
> 
> The editor would be a prescriptivist, i.e., someone who believes that we can prescribe what is correct in the language.
> 
> The linguist is a descriptivist, i.e., someone who studies and describes the language system at various stages.
> 
> So...for the linguist, the common use of 'your' for 'you're' could well be a harbinger of a future where the two forms have combined. This makes the usage interesting rather than irritating to the linguist. (Although I sympathize with the irritation.)


Its beast to bee a reelist and now u can't subjewb.gate a tablet or phone keybored. They were invented in hello w
And noyrthing makes them work right.


----------



## manticore

happyman64 said:


> Your Ex is obviously learning her lesson.
> 
> Watch her actions. Enjoy the holidays.
> 
> Who knows you might actually be surprised!
> 
> HM


Happyman i normally agree with you comments and in some ocassions give me new points of view, but this case I see things differently I guess.

I don't see how she is learning her lesson, when this is her second A, and she is still living at home, still having sex with her husband, still has the same job where she meet the POSOM, still having the same adventages of coo-parenting as if they were married.

yes, they are divorced but in the mechanic of the relationship nothing has changed, maybe he is being harsh on her but we know that is not enough to give her introspective of her actions.


----------



## happyman64

Manticore

I understand where you are coming from. I truly do.

But BD has a while to go before he is ready to let go of his Ex.

Look at how many chances he has given her. Many more than she has ever deserved.

He is still having sex with her and she is living under his roof.

Why? Because he loves her. 

Does she deserve that love. Hell no!

She has treated him and the kids like total dog crap.

What he needs to do is ween himself away from her. Because he has been holding onto the notion that the woman in front of him is his wife.

He is beginning to come to realize that the woman he married left her body and mind a long time ago.

It is a process. And he can decide when he is ready to truly let go.

When he does and his Ex is truly on her own is when I think the lightbulb will go off.

She will not feel any loss until then. She will not feel the loss of her husband, marriage and family until then.

And that is when she will finally look in the mirror.

That is what I meant he might be surprised.

It does not mean she will do the hard work to fix herself or have a desire to truly love BD.

Or Desire to only be with BD.

Because I think LAS is not strong enough or brave enough to look in the mirror for too long or too hard.

But that is just my opinion.

HM


----------



## Anuvia

How sad the way this thread turned out. It's like slowly watching a train wreck occurring.


----------



## jac70

Anuvia said:


> How sad the way this thread turned out. It's like slowly watching a train wreck occurring.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## BetrayedDad

happyman64 said:


> But BD has a while to go before he is ready to let go of his Ex.


Yeah, of course I still care about her. At the same time, I'll never trust her ever again. It would be impossible for me too. I can see she desperately wants things to work out. So do I but I know they can't. That relationship is dead and she killed it. So unless I have some epifany, I will tell her January 1st she has till February 28th to move out and be done with it. 

I'm willing to stay in limbo till after the holidays. Not because I want her to stay but rather because I want to see if I have a change of heart. I HATE her for what she did to me. She stabbed me in the back and gutted my heart and soul like a fish. She sold me out and pledged her loyalty to the OM. A man she KNOWINGLY knew was a cheating POS himself. I will never forget that.

I also want to see what she does in the next few months to change herself. I do believe she wants to change. I can see she is sincere in wanting too. I don't think anyone wants to be a POS but I don't know how much extraordinary effort she will put in. She knew what she did while she was doing it was horrible. The A was just more important to her. In the end, even though we will no longer be together, I still don't want the mother of my children to be an immoral person. It matters to me what kind of environment my kids will be brought up in.

She told me over the weekend she's "falling for me". Since she's broken off the A, she has taken all this emotional energy she was dumping on the OM and has redirected it towards me. She suggested (trying to test the waters I assume) wanting to do "family portraits" with the kids. I didn't say a single word. Interestingly, when I suggested family pictures in early August just prior to dday she didn't say a single word. Just gave me this look like someone just died. Amazing how much things can change in two months...


----------



## turnera

Hey, any port in a storm...


----------



## LostViking

She is acting.


----------



## wilderness

LostViking said:


> She is acting.


Not necessarily. I see some hope in your situation, OP. Not saying that you have to or even should remain married, but I do see hope.


----------



## MyTurn

BB, if you truly want to see how much things can change and if she is 
truly "falling for you" ,then do not wait two months just tell her to move out ASAP before the holidays.This will make her face reality of what she did and feel the loss of her family,especialy on holidays.
Plus it will make you feel better once she is gone.


----------



## happyman64

Maybe she is acting, maybe not.

Maybe BD is the "safe" port, but maybe BD is not choosing to allow her "safe" passage.

All I will say is BD is awake. He now sees who she really is.

He loves his family and wants them to be coparented by a moral mother.

And can any of us fault him for desiring his wife step up to the sanity plate and taking an honest swing????

Keep moving forward BD. No matter what happens with your wife you will be a better person, man and father for it.

HM


----------



## LostViking

What has she done to show she deserves to be taken back? Good intentions are not enough. As for now, all you can be sure of is that she is screwed up. She has nowhere to go, no support system and no way of paying for the IC she desperately needs. 

It will take her months to find a full time job, longer to establish herself in a stable residence, and that much longer to get into IC for her issues. It is going to take her a long, long time to get to a place where she is even ready to work on herself. And by the time she does all this, will she really want to change? 

She is stringing you along and sucking off you like a remora. You are all she has, and she has no ethical problem paying for her room and board with sex. Is this that you want? Is this the way you want your kids to percieve their mom... as nothing more than a prostitute to her ex-husband?


----------



## happyman64

And might I add BD that if I were you I would do the family portrait.

Schedule it and book it yourself. Look great in that photo.

My reasoning is I would want her to look at that [email protected] picture everyday of her life wondering what the hell did she do to destroy "her" family.

Consider the portrait a consequence for her. But knowing in your mind it is the ultimate gift/prize that a sane parent will always treasure.

HM


----------



## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> She is stringing you along and sucking off you like a remora. You are all she has, and she has no ethical problem paying for her room and board with sex. Is this that you want? Is this the way you want your kids to percieve their mom... as nothing more than a prostitute to her ex-husband?


Yeah a couple people have mention that... For the record, she does give me rent money to stay under my roof. She's not paying me with sex nor have I ever once said or implied that she had to "put out" or leave. She knows she's under no perceived obligation. She sleeps with me because she's trying to win me back and she wants to. She says she feels now that she has an emotional connection with me and wishes to express it. Whether that's true is another story.




happyman64 said:


> My reasoning is I would want her to look at that [email protected] picture everyday of her life wondering what the hell did she do to destroy "her" family.


Yeah... I already have a family portait hanging on the wall and plenty of photos of us together thoughout my house. Didn't really stop her from inviting the OM to sleep over while I was away. 

That's the part I just don't get. She had ZERO guilt doing this to me for six months and coming home every night asking me what's for dinner. Now, I'm supposed to believe she feels badly? I don't get the mentality of a heartless cheater. Still, blows my mind... Some people just seem wired to do very bad things and just put them out of their head and forget about it. It's so strange to me.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

BetrayedDad said:


> So unless I have some epifany, I will tell her January 1st she has till February 28th to move out and be done with it.


February huh. It use to be January. I'mguessing by Febuary 28th you'll be giving her another month, or two



BetrayedDad said:


> - Post 692 - January 1st keeps popping in my head. New year and new beginings I suppose. Give it until then to do something. Either kick her out or jump back.






BetrayedDad said:


> I still don't want the mother of my children to be an immoral person.


That ship has long scince sailed. And you can't give anyone morals. You can only be around them to make sure that they don't do anything immoral. As far as I can tel, that's what you are doing.



BetrayedDad said:


> She told me over the weekend she's "*falling for me*". Since she's broken off the A, she has taken all this emotional energy she was dumping on the OM and has redirected it towards me. She suggested (trying to test the waters I assume) wanting to do "family portraits" with the kids. I didn't say a single word. Interestingly, when I suggested family pictures in early August just prior to dday she didn't say a single word. Just gave me this look like someone just died. Amazing how much things can change in two months...


And you falling for *IT*. She was dumped, she now wants her plan B and lucky her, plan B seems to be taking the bait.

You will NEVER know if your WS truly wants you back, wants to R, while she's still living under the same roof. She very well could be trying to hold on to her MR Right Now. Then when her MR Right shows up again... Well, you know the drill.

That old poem about setting someone free and if they return, they were yours. If they don't, the never were. This is the only way you are going to get a TRUE R out of her.


----------



## azteca1986

BetrayedDad said:


> Amazing how much things can change in two months...


Yes. *It's only half the time your WW withheld sex from you to keep herself pure for her lover. *



> I'm willing to stay in limbo till after the holidays. Not because I want her to stay but rather because I want to see if I have a change of heart. I HATE her for what she did to me. She stabbed me in the back and gutted my heart and soul like a fish. She sold me out and pledged her loyalty to the OM. A man she KNOWINGLY knew was a cheating POS himself. I will never forget that.


Just a reminder...



BetrayedDad said:


> On a random side note....
> 
> Maybe it's a "guy thing" but the worst part about all this is knowing they had sex over the course of months. Thinking about their physical intimacy is what really turns my stomach. *That she would reject me, to give him sex. Even in our own bed. *Yes, the emotional aspect hurts too but the physical part is what keeps me awake at night....





BetrayedDad said:


> Well the wife was pissed...
> 
> Made a bunch of serious threats about the house and kids then out of the blue retracted them all. *She's now being nicey nicey and since she's a pathological liar I don't know what to believe. *
> 
> Assume the worst and hope for the best I guess. She's on her toes now that's for sure. *Some of the stuff coming out of her mouth was the coldest, heartless, most uncompassionate I'd ever heard her say in my 12 years with her*. She really could give two sh!ts about the feelings of the OMW and her newborn baby.
> 
> I can still threaten to burn her with HR if have too. Probably the only thing holding her back. Glad I didn't use up all my ammo.
> 
> "Affair fog" is too nice an analogy. I think "twisted by the dark side" is far more accurate. *Can't wait to get away from her.* She's making it easier and easier to detach all by herself.





BetrayedDad said:


> Update: OMW tossed OM out of house but wants to try to work it out in counseling (I guess she's blaming herself). WS seems fairly certain now OM will try to work it out too and is disappointed because I can tell she still has feelings for him. She wants him to herself and I can tell she totally expected this guy to come running into her arms. With all that, pathetically I think she's still barely holding out hope.
> 
> *WS was kissing my butt yesterday because she knows plan A (OM) is likely to fail, plan B (me) is divorcing her so she's basically in damage control mode to scoop up whatever man she can. *I give her fleeting hope only because I want the silky smooth D to continue but after seeing her true colors I know there is no chance I can ever trust her again.
> 
> *How people can reconcile after this is beyond me. I couldn't live with myself knowing I was plan B.*


Your wife had an EA six years ago and now this affair. Cheating on you has become a lifestyle choice. 

Reconcile by all means. But get her out of your house. She's needs to work on herself. So do you if you're willing to put up with what she put you through. Demonstrate to her what she was willing to give up when she kept in contact with her AP even after you confronted her. Your WW and your children need to learn that betraying your spouse comes with some cold, hard *consequences*. Leaving the door open to reconciliation can still happen with *her out the house*.


----------



## harrybrown

She is an actress. 

She wants you know, but two affairs? How will you feel about the 3rd affair? She is selfish and heartless.

She was honest when she was cold and heartless to you.

Do not let her hurt you anymore. If she loved you, would she really do this time and time and time again? She does not have the same morals as you.

Find someone that will love you for you. She is out there and your future will be bright. 

She did so much for her AP, and treated you like shyt. Worse than that. What has she done for you, really?


----------



## Nucking Futs

happyman64 said:


> And might I add BD that if I were you I would do the family portrait.
> 
> Schedule it and book it yourself. Look great in that photo.
> 
> My reasoning is I would want her to look at that [email protected] picture everyday of her life wondering what the hell did she do to destroy "her" family.
> 
> Consider the portrait a consequence for her. But knowing in your mind it is the ultimate gift/prize that a sane parent will always treasure.
> 
> HM


I disagree. Your family consists of you and your children. Her family is her and the children. I would make sure she understands this dynamic by having a family portrait done without her.


----------



## azteca1986

Nucking Futs said:


> I disagree. Your family consists of you and your children. Her family is her and the children. I would make sure she understands this dynamic by having a family portrait done without her.


Save the money for her deposit for her new place. It's a little late in the day to play "Happy Families".


----------



## Ovid

I'd take all of the pictures with both of you in them down.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Ovid said:


> I'd take all of the pictures with both of you in them down.


I already have... did that a while ago. She noticed but never made a comment.


----------



## LostViking

Tell her to stop paying you rent and save her money for a deposit on an apartment. Get her the fvck out of there and away from you. 

I guarantee you within a week of being on her own, all this talk of wanting you back and R will evaporate. She is a con-artist.


----------



## happyman64

LostViking said:


> Tell her to stop paying you rent and save her money for a deposit on an apartment. Get her the fvck out of there and away from you.
> 
> I guarantee you within a week of being on her own, all this talk of wanting you back and R will evaporate. She is a con-artist.


Wrong.

Save the rent money she is paying you and use that for a deposit on apt. 

Do any of you honestly think she will go get an apt. On her own???

And no matter what it is BD' s choice on what he wants to do. And when he wants to do it.

Patience BD. And watch.

You have all the time in the world. Set that date in your head on when you want to make that decision.

HM


----------



## VFW

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm willing to stay in limbo till after the holidays. Not because I want her to stay but rather because I want to see if I have a change of heart. I HATE her for what she did to me. She stabbed me in the back and gutted my heart and soul like a fish. She sold me out and pledged her loyalty to the OM. A man she KNOWINGLY knew was a cheating POS himself. I will never forget that.
> 
> I also want to see what she does in the next few months to change herself. I do believe she wants to change. I can see she is sincere in wanting too.


You will get many who say you have to divorce, once a cheater, always a cheater. I do believe people change, whether your wife fits that mold is yet to be seen. I think you are wise to wait and see for a little bit, what will happen. It does open you up to more hurt, but is a calculated risk. I think you are doing well, given your situation.


----------



## LostViking

We have another member on this forum who is still allowing his xWW to live with him after the D was final. They are essentially living as man and wife until he decideds its not working anymore. Cant remember exactly who it is. 

I guess you could try this BD. But I would be watching your ex like a hawk if it were me. Never take your guard down and require that she be totally transparent to you. Franky I would tire fast of being my partner's parole officer. 

Happy is right., we are not in your shoes and we are not there to see what is going down. Do what you feel is right.


----------



## manticore

Hi BD

I think that something that puzzles me about your situation is that you have no false expectations of your Ex, you actually know that she is not acting with real remorse, and you know she is trying to manipulate you with superficial changes. You are not a delusional BS that with a little sweetness from the WS are set rug sweep everything under the mat.

But here is the catch, is like you are expecting to fall under the illusion that she has actually changed.

No insult intended, maybe I am overthinking things, but I see how you keep changing the date for making her move out. First was before the end of the year, later was in january, and now is on February.

you began talking about how you intended to date new women, and even subscribing to a dating site, but now, seems you have put on hold the whole thing

you wrote how you are waiting to see if you have a change of hearth, my question here will be, what can detonate this change?, she looking on books of healing from affairs, improving marriage, forming boundaries. Maybe she revealing a hiding past that is affecting thew current relationship.

I am questioning you not with the intention of pressuring you to do something against your will (like dating, or throwing her out), but to understand what exactly your expactations are from this point are?.

I tell you this because I hope you don't have to return 5 years later writing, how is possible that it happen again for third time'.

There are some users who have give seconds and thirds chances and then had regreted have given even a first chance.


----------



## loopy lu

Use condoms!


Desperate people do desperate things. Nothing like an oopsie baby to put reconciliation back on the table.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah... I already have a family portait hanging on the wall and plenty of photos of us together thoughout my house. Didn't really stop her from inviting the OM to sleep over while I was away.
> 
> That's the part I just don't get. She had ZERO guilt doing this to me for six months and coming home every night asking me what's for dinner. Now, I'm supposed to believe she feels badly? I don't get the mentality of a heartless cheater. Still, blows my mind... Some people just seem wired to do very bad things and just put them out of their head and forget about it. It's so strange to me.


BD, have you considered the possibility that she suffers from a mental illness, and/or personality disorder? BPD perhaps, or NPD?

There are certain things that normal people consider to be immoral, unethical, narcisistic, illegal, and just plain wrong. And then there are other people who can't see anything wrong with such actions.

What drives people to cheat, steal, or kill?!? Sometimes, you can't make logic, out of something that is illogical. 

Does your W have a mental illness, personality disorder? Who knows,... but something isn't right with her - would you agree?

Her psychological make up is like a Pie Chart, compartmentalized with various personality traits. But, they are like a box of chocolates as Forrest Gump would say,...

She has told you she needs to work on herself, so that is a huge step forward for her (and your family). You may not be married to her anymore, but you are still a family. Let her work on herself,.... because without her acknowledgement of the need to address her own healing to be done, there is no chance for her to overcome whatever it is that has led her down this reckless behavior. 

Is it better having her in the same house while she works on her self (which would be easier to keep an eye on her), or better if she moved out and get away from you for a while (which may work in your favor for R, as she'll have a chance to reflect in peace, and perhaps realize she does love you, and miss you). 

I've had both situations with my W, and honestly - both suck. 

So my advice, don't forget to remember taking care of your kids, and yourself!!!!


----------



## LostViking

BD needs to....

Aw fvck it. I'm not giving any more advice on this thread. BD has allowed this situation to become so convoluted and messed up as to have no positive resolution. I think he is set on riding the wave wherever it takes him. 

That's a dangerous way to live ones life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

LostViking said:


> BD needs to....
> 
> Aw fvck it. I'm not giving any more advice on this thread. BD has allowed this situation to become so convoluted and messed up as to have no positive resolution. I think he is set on riding the wave wherever it takes him.
> 
> That's a dangerous way to live ones life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: And it's not just his life, there are kids involved too.


----------



## LongWalk

Betrayed Dad,

You have been in one of the world's cruelest amusement parks. Your wife/significant other drags from attraction to attraction and forces you to ride. She wants to. Why don't you? Can't you get into her screams of excitement? When you feel nauseous she gets you another hotdog with your favorite mustard.

Now at last when you have barfed your soul up so many times, you want to leave the confusion because you know that in the morning light the place looks tired and depressing.

The best thing for both of you is what is best for you. But yourself first in this relationship. Be the leader. She may eventually love you for real, but it will take a long time and it may not happen ever.

Make her get an apartment and move out. Make her take responsibility. If you want to have sex with her, have it. When she is nice and contributes to everyone's happiness let her stay the night. When she hassles you and doesn't give her all, tell her to go and spend the night in her lonely apartment.


----------



## MarriedTex

I'd take the group picture with the kids - for the kids sake. Gives them the last possible picture of them at their oldest with their original "core" nuclear family. Don't do it for her. Do it for them.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Really!?!? said:


> BD, have you considered the possibility that she suffers from a mental illness, and/or personality disorder? BPD perhaps, or NPD?
> 
> There are certain things that normal people consider to be immoral, unethical, narcisistic, illegal, and just plain wrong. And then there are other people who can't see anything wrong with such actions.
> 
> What drives people to cheat, steal, or kill?!? Sometimes, you can't make logic, out of something that is illogical.
> 
> Does your W have a mental illness, personality disorder? Who knows,... but something isn't right with her - would you agree?



Actually I have thought that for quite some time. She had a REALLY bad childhood. NOT a justification but just a fact. Abandonment, sexual abuse, attempted suicide, the whole nine yards. She carries around a ton of emotional baggage. Her only defense mechinism (besides lying) is to shut off her feelings and emotions because if she doesn't they come poring out and she cries uncontrollably. 

That's how I think she could be so callious and cruel during the affair. Because she has that ability, fine tuned since childhood. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I could never carry around the amount of guilt and shame she has for so long. And it wasn't even just apathy towards me. She even tuned out my kids feelings. 

She's never been formerly diagnosed with anything. At the very least she has depression... Probably a lot more than that. Do I think something isn't right with her? No doubt in my mind.


----------



## movin on

LostViking said:


> BD needs to....
> 
> Aw fvck it. I'm not giving any more advice on this thread. BD has allowed this situation to become so convoluted and messed up as to have no positive resolution. I think he is set on riding the wave wherever it takes him.
> 
> That's a dangerous way to live ones life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't get either. I can see this thread going on for another year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Really!?!?

movin on said:


> I don't get either. I can see this thread going on for another year.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well,... it may go on for another year, and I don't think this post has gotten convuluted at all now. I think the root cause of what's happened in BD's marriage has just been identified. What BD just said, was that his Ex-W had a REALLY bad childhood, sexual abuse, adbandonment, etc,.....

Search "married to survivor of child sexual abuse" on TAM, and you will find several threads that will help you BD.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Actually I have thought that for quite some time. She had a REALLY bad childhood. NOT a justification but just a fact. Abandonment, sexual abuse, attempted suicide, the whole nine yards. She carries around a ton of emotional baggage. Her only defense mechinism (besides lying) is to shut off her feelings and emotions because if she doesn't they come poring out and she cries uncontrollably. .


BD, have you and or your Ex-W talked about her CSA (Child Sexual Abuse), gone to counseling individually or together to work on it, during your marraige?

Perhaps you underestimated how her CSA has affected her whole life, your marriage, and her cheating. Infidelity is a classic side affect or coping mechanism of the CSA trauma. 

Read the threads in TAM on this topic,.... it will explain the why's and how's of her actions and your marraige. The reason I asked if she had BPD or other mental illness, is because of the things you explained in your posts. It all suggested possible childhood trauma,.... sexual abuse in particular.

Get the book Haunted Marriage. It will explain why marital infidelity is highly desired outside the marriage of a CSA survivor, how she has the ability (or curse) to numb her feelings, be so calous, etc,.....



> That's how I think she could be so callious and cruel during the affair. Because she has that ability, fine tuned since childhood. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I could never carry around the amount of guilt and shame she has for so long. And it wasn't even just apathy towards me. She even tuned out my kids feelings.


This is exactly right: her sexuality was frozen at the time her child sexual abuse happened. For my W, it was between age 5 - 9. This is why sometimes her reasoning, behavior, fear, etc,.... resembles the reaction of a 9 year old. It's hard to explain, but I've dealt with this for the 13 years I've been married to a CSA Survivor. Your and my sense of conscious, responsibility, and maturity, is TOTALLY different than that of a CSA survivor. Their sexual programming was wired differently, the moment they were abused and violated as a child. You can't relate how we would respond or react, to the way a CSA survivor will. 




> She's never been formerly diagnosed with anything. At the very least she has depression... Probably a lot more than that. Do I think something isn't right with her? No doubt in my mind.


No doubt in my mind either,.... now that you mentioned her CSA history. It all makes sense to me now, about your relationship with her.

So, read that book Haunted Marriage,.... it is written to help married couples where one or both of the spouses is a CSA Survivor. Perhaps it can help your relationship with her, or at a minimum explain alot about your relationship with your Ex-W. 

I am not against you or anyone being able to R, but I was merely pointing our some triggers and facts about your relationship that will be challenging. 

My W and I are supposedly seperating and divorcing,.... although she has not move out "yet" after asking for a Divorce 4 months ago. She has the classic BPD fear of abandonment and Engulfment,.... so she desperately wants to "run" from our relationship (again),... yet really hasn't taken serious measures to do so.

Will she stay, or will she go? I have no idea,... but she is the mother of my child, and we both love her dearly. Will my W snap out of it for the hundreth time and start loving us again,.... I really don't know,... again. :scratchhead:


----------



## Thor

Really!?!? said:


> Perhaps you underestimated how her CSA has affected her whole life, your marriage, and her cheating. Infidelity is a classic side affect or coping mechanism of the CSA trauma.
> 
> Read the threads in TAM on this topic,.... it will explain the why's and how's of her actions and your marraige. The reason I asked if she had BPD or other mental illness, is because of the things you explained in your posts. It all suggested possible childhood trauma,.... sexual abuse in particular.


The effects of CSA invade every part of her life. She won't recognize much or even any of it. It will affect her parenting, her professional life, her fears, her hobbies, _everything_.

BPD and NPD are frequently thought to be related to CSA. While it may be true, I think a lot of times the behaviors in the adult CSA survivor look similar to BPD/NPD yet are really a manifestation of the immaturity and the warped world view of the survivor. The true BPD/NPD person is not likely to ever change much. But the CSA survivor who is not personality disordered can make huge progress if she works hard at it. If she won't work at it, there is no hope.


----------



## Really!?!?

Thor said:


> The effects of CSA invade every part of her life. She won't recognize much or even any of it. It will affect her parenting, her professional life, her fears, her hobbies, _everything_.


This is my W,.... there are rare times when she'll acknowledge her CSA and how it's affected her trust issues, sexuality, etc,..... and in more lucid phases of her life, she'll apologize for being so irrational, consumed, angry, etc,.... BUT, for the most part, she exists in the drama and "her reality", to function in life. Her favorite "reality" is blaming me for her unhappiness. Not sure if you have experienced any of this B-Dad.




> BPD and NPD are frequently thought to be related to CSA. While it may be true, I think a lot of times the behaviors in the adult CSA survivor look similar to BPD/NPD yet are really a manifestation of the immaturity and the warped world view of the survivor. The true BPD/NPD person is not likely to ever change much. But the CSA survivor who is not personality disordered can make huge progress if she works hard at it. If she won't work at it, there is no hope.


Yes, it's hard to have someone diagnosed with BPD or NPD, unless they are working directly with an IC. I've discussed this with my IC, and she said there's no way she should or could diagnose someone without meeting and working with them, but hypothetically and based on what I detailed - she said my W has a strong possibility of having those traits. Based on other things I've read, many times an IC won't even tell the patient that they have BPD or NPD. My W may or may not have these personality disorders, but her behaviors certainly mirror those symptoms.

She has difficulty and trust issues in all aspects of her life and relationships: marriage, immediate family, extended family, friends, work colleagues, etc,.... She thrives on drama, can't trust, and always has to be the victim. Which means, there always has to be an abuser,.... which is the role she has cast me him.

I'm doomed,....

The fact that she can't/won't acknowledge the need to work on her CSA trauma and heal from it, let alone actually do the years of work needed,... give me little to no hope that we could ever sustain any kind of relationship and marriage. 

Sometihng that I recently realized, is that since her CSA occured between the ages of 5 - 9, she has lived with this the majority of her life. Assuming her earliest memories perhaps go back to ages 3 - 4,... the CSA has been a part of her life for 90% - 95% of her entire life. That saddens me, and I feel bad for her when I think of this. I also realize though, that I don't ever see her healing from this.

BD, if your Ex-W is working on this with her IC, then she has hope of healing from her CSA if she works at it.


----------



## turnera

You're not doomed. You can educate yourself on living with it (start putting up boundaries for acceptable behavior and consequences if she crosses them) or make plans to move on without her.


----------



## Really!?!?

turnera said:


> You're not doomed. You can educate yourself on living with it (start putting up boundaries for acceptable behavior and consequences if she crosses them) or make plans to move on without her.


Tunera, thanks for the encouragement. I didn't mean that I felt doomed, but rather that my marriage feels doomed.

There's a consant push and pull of wanting to be set free from being blamed for everything in our relationship, to salvaging the marriage because of all the past good times and potential of what our marriage "could" be.

To be honest, I wish this was all just a nightmare, that I would wake up one day and all this CSA crap wasn't killing our marriage. I'm sure my W feels the same, and I empathise that she has had to live with this since childhood. I only wish she had the self awareness to work on it, but she is too fearful of re-living it all.

BD, I hope your Ex-W is still working on her healing.

Best,...


----------



## BetrayedDad

Really!?!? said:


> BD, I hope your Ex-W is still working on her healing.


Thank you for posting! I never really thought of it from that angle before. You make a lot of good points and I'm going to tell her to bring it up in counseling.

So far so good. She has been working on her healing since she asked for reconciliation almost 4 weeks ago. Right now I can see she has a broken heart from the OM and has been griefing the loss of the affair. Towards the end, she became very heavily emotionally vested in the prince charming the OM portrayed himself to be. To her it was a trusting relationship and he threw her under the bus. She now knows he used her and lied to her. I can see that hurts her. Personally, I think she's an idiot for ever trusting a man who cheats on his pregnant wife but I guess that's why it's called a fog.

It seems like the fog as lifted for her. I know she is sorry for the pain she caused me. She's tells me she loves me but I can tell the depression sometimes impedes her affection towards me. She wants to be in a relationship with me but that intangible euphoria, lust, desire whatever you want to call it isn't there. After detaching from me for so long, it will take time to come back if it ever does. I was after all dead to her emotionally. She's clearly a very broken person. 

She also continues to be transparent. I've been checking my intel and so far she's clean. I have multiple sources to check up on her with that she's completely unaware of. I'm pretty confident there has been no contact with the OM. She is looking for another job and has a few leads for interviews she's working on. She continues to go to counseling and church.

We discussed her moving out again. She seems on board with the idea. I would like it to happen after the holidays. As part of her fixing herself and breaking the codepedency bond we have with each other. It will likely become a dating situation and seeing what happens but at least with her out of the house I may be able to think clearly and we can work more on fixing ourselves. I hope she is able to get out of that toxic work environment before then. 

I don't know if I can forgive her or trust her ever again. I would LIKE too but how? She knowingly betrayed me, humiliated me, disrespected me and destroyed our family just so she could be happy with someone else. Completely selfish. Now, after everything she took for granted, she wants a do over. She would of dumped me if OM was the real deal. I was her plan B. At this point I'd almost rather move on and find someone else who will truely love me and be faithful to me. Seems like a daunting task and it scares the hell out of me.


----------



## Thor

Really!?!? said:


> Sometihng that I recently realized, is that since her CSA occured between the ages of 5 - 9, she has lived with this the majority of her life. Assuming her earliest memories perhaps go back to ages 3 - 4,... the CSA has been a part of her life for 90% - 95% of her entire life. That saddens me, and I feel bad for her when I think of this. I also realize though, that I don't ever see her healing from this.


I had never really thought of it quite like that. My wife was kindergarten through about 3rd grade, so the same age range as your wife. I thought of it as having her childhood stolen, and how her adult life has been so damaged. But I never thought of it as being almost her entire life experience. She doesn't have any normal memories or experiences to draw upon.

Sad indeed.


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## LostViking

You seriously need to get out and start dating other women. 

An evening with a woman who WANTS to be in your company, as opposed to say a woman who hangs around because you provide her room and board, will be a refreshing breath of cool air after the parched desert you have walked through. 

I think when you start dating again, your self esteem will get a boost and you will regain some of the sense of manhood your xWW destroyed. 

And quit feeling sorry for her over her heartbreak about losing the OM. I mean really BD.... there is sympathy and then there is milquetoast and you definitely lean towards the latter. It breaks you down inside when you do that and it pisses the rest of us off.


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## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> You seriously need to get out and start dating other women.
> 
> An evening with a woman who WANTS to be in your company, as opposed to say a woman who hangs around because you provide her room and board, will be a refreshing breath of cool air after the parched desert you have walked through.


Yeah, I 100% agree. No argument here. That's why I'm trying to gently get her out of the house...

Watching her grieve the loss of her POSOM, while pretending to still be interested in me, is a special kind of hell.


----------



## LostViking

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah, I 100% agree. No argument here. That's why I'm trying to gently get her out of the house...
> 
> Watching her grieve the loss of her POSOM, while pretending to still be interested in me, is a special kind of hell.


You don't need her to move out before you date. Set up a date, get dressed up and before you leave the house tell her you're going out on a date and to watch the kids. Easy. 

SHE'S NOT YOUR WIFE ANYMORE!!!! :cussing:


----------



## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> SHE'S NOT YOUR WIFE ANYMORE!!!!


So everyone tells me LOL. 

If I do that then she will do the same and just not tell me. And that's a trigger I really don't need to rehash. 

Once she leaves the house and I'm not around her anymore then I will careless what she does. Out of sight, out of mind.


----------



## LongWalk

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah, I 100% agree. No argument here. That's why I'm trying to gently get her out of the house...
> 
> *Watching her grieve the loss of her POSOM, while pretending to still be interested in me, is a special kind of hell*.


Would be interesting to know if there have been studies on how love can shift from one subject to another. As the OM gradually becomes less important, does the BH fill up the empty space if they are having sex?

If the WW is cast into isolation, will they fantasize about the OM or BH? Probably there is no single answer but there may be patterns.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Well... got my Ex to confess to another EA tonight. Apparently, she claims she was emailing (using her work email), facebooking and texting the same ex-boyfriend I caught her having an EA with in 2007. This happened in 2011 and I guess it went on for 6 months on and off. She claims he reached out to her when he broke up with his girlfriend and HE stopped it when he found another girlfriend. I asked her if she met up with him. She said SHE tried to set up a meeting but he made up excuses why he couldn't. I don't even know if I believe that they never met in person. I have no way of proving it now because of how long ago it was. 

I know it doesn't matter now since we're divorced but what is surprising me is how it is not bothering me as I thought it would. At this point, I'm really just not surprised anymore... How could we have ever made this marriage work when she never gave it a chance? She never took our martial commitment seriously at all. This is just another slap in the face.


----------



## Roll Tide

The slap in the face, that is a wake up call not an insult. She is the one who insulted your marriage. The shame is hers. I hope you are doing well.


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## LostViking

Your whole marriage was a slap in the face. Don't be down on yourself. We all married lemons. 

The day she moves out she will be hooking up with other guys. She cannot exist in a validation vacuum. The only reason she is being sweet and kind is because you are the only thing between her and a cardboard box under a bridge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> Well... got my Ex to confess to another EA tonight. Apparently, she claims she was emailing (using her work email), facebooking and texting the same ex-boyfriend I caught her having an EA with in 2007. This happened in 2011 and I guess it went on for 6 months on and off. She claims he reached out to her when he broke up with his girlfriend and HE stopped it when he found another girlfriend. I asked her if she met up with him. She said SHE tried to set up a meeting but he made up excuses why he couldn't. I don't even know if I believe that they never met in person. I have no way of proving it now because of how long ago it was.
> 
> I know it doesn't matter now since we're divorced but what is surprising me is how it is not bothering me as I thought it would. At this point, I'm really just not surprised anymore... How could we have ever made this marriage work when she never gave it a chance? She never took our martial commitment seriously at all. This is just another slap in the face.


Dude:slap::slap:

Start dating NOW! I'm done.


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## BetrayedDad

LostViking said:


> Your whole marriage was a slap in the face. Don't be down on yourself. We all married lemons.
> 
> The day she moves out she will be hooking up with other guys. She cannot exist in a validation vacuum. The only reason she is being sweet and kind is because you are the only thing between her and a cardboard box under a bridge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is depressing... I mean how could I be so wrong about someone? Why marry me if you're still going to shop around behind my back? Why continue to use me like this? I started this thread pissed as hell. Now I'm just sad and depressed all the time. Only thing she has really done is rug sweep, ignore the elephant in the room and get annoyed with my questions. Her new thing is claiming I'm just looking for reasons not to want to reconcile. I really don't think I do. It seems to just get worse and worse. She just doesn't want to face her demons.


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## azteca1986

**** AMAZING BLAMESHIFT ALERT!!! ***
*


BetrayedDad said:


> Her new thing is* claiming I'm just looking for reasons not to want to reconcile*. I really don't think I do. It seems to just get worse and worse. She just doesn't want to face her demons.


Must just be her bad luck that you keep finding reasons. Or something


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## bfree

*Re: Re: Best way to divorce my wife...*



BetrayedDad said:


> It is depressing... I mean how could I be so wrong about someone? Why marry me if you're still going to shop around behind my back? Why continue to use me like this? I started this thread pissed as hell. Now I'm just sad and depressed all the time. Only thing she has really done is rug sweep, ignore the elephant in the room and get annoyed with my questions. Her new thing is claiming I'm just looking for reasons not to want to reconcile. I really don't think I do. It seems to just get worse and worse. She just doesn't want to face her demons.


You are sad and depressed because you aren't moving on. Not really. Her actions have nothing to do with you. She is broken and always was. You held her together for a while but that can only last so long. Chalk it up to experience, use this knowledge when you start dating again, but most of all move on. Crying over spilt milk does no good. Time to clean the mess and start looking for a new cow.


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## carmen ohio

BetrayedDad said:


> It is depressing... I mean how could I be so wrong about someone? Why marry me if you're still going to shop around behind my back? Why continue to use me like this? I started this thread pissed as hell. *Now I'm just sad and depressed all the time.* Only thing she has really done is rug sweep, ignore the elephant in the room and get annoyed with my questions. Her new thing is claiming I'm just looking for reasons not to want to reconcile. I really don't think I do. *It seems to just get worse and worse.* She just doesn't want to face her demons.


Dear BetrayedDad,

Things are probably going to continue to get worse and you're going to continue to be depressed if you don't physically separate from her and start rebuilding your life.

She betrayed you repeatedly. You are now divorced. But you can't seem to break the emotional tie with her. Why?

Have you read _"No More Mr. Nice Guy"_ by Dr. Robert Glover, as bandit.45 suggested a while ago? It might help you understand yourself -- which I think is more important now than continuing to try to diagnose your FWW. Here's a link: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glo...r_Nice_Guy.pdf

Wishing you the best.


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## harrybrown

Sorry about who you thought your wife was, now that you keep finding out more about her, it gets worse and worse. 

How is she with the children? She is so selfish regarding her relationship with you. Is she getting any counseling to fix herself before her next relationship? 

You can not heal with her around. It is good that you are divorced. 

You need to see a counselor about your depression, and you need to start doing things for yourself. Get out of the house some evenings and away from your ex. Let her pine for the OM, but you need to go NC with her as much as possible. 

For you and your kids, you should start dating with someone else.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BetrayedDad said:


> Well... got my Ex to confess to another EA tonight. Apparently, she claims she was emailing (using her work email), facebooking and texting the same ex-boyfriend I caught her having an EA with in 2007. This happened in 2011 and I guess it went on for 6 months on and off. She claims he reached out to her when he broke up with his girlfriend and HE stopped it when he found another girlfriend. I asked her if she met up with him. She said SHE tried to set up a meeting but he made up excuses why he couldn't. I don't even know if I believe that they never met in person. I have no way of proving it now because of how long ago it was.


I told my spouse I had software that could download deleted texts from her iPhone. I lied but she bought it. She just confessed she had an ONS with her ex boyfriend in a hotel in early 2011. It wasn't just an EA, just more trickle truth. So that's two PA's now she's had in the last three years. I'm just so disgusted I'm at a loss for words...


----------



## aug

BetrayedDad said:


> I told my spouse I had software that could download deleted texts from her iPhone. I lied but she bought it. She just confessed she had an ONS with her ex boyfriend in a hotel in early 2011. It wasn't just an EA, just more trickle truth. So that's two PA's now she's had in the last three years. I'm just so disgusted I'm at a loss for words...



well, you know what she is now. Will this knowledge help you move on? If not, why not?


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## tom67

aug said:


> well, you know what she is now. Will this knowledge help you move on? If not, why not?


Has she been tested for STDs?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> It is depressing... I mean how could I be so wrong about someone? Why marry me if you're still going to shop around behind my back? Why continue to use me like this? I started this thread pissed as hell. Now I'm just sad and depressed all the time. Only thing she has really done is rug sweep, ignore the elephant in the room and get annoyed with my questions. Her new thing is claiming I'm just looking for reasons not to want to reconcile. I really don't think I do. It seems to just get worse and worse. She just doesn't want to face her demons.


man, that is why we have been telling you to get ride of her toxic influence out of your house, but you keep having sex with her, you keep allowing her to give you the illusion that she cares for you "treating you like a king", she will not let go of you becuase you are her anchor, but as you have seen she has no intention to treat you with the *real* respect you deserve.

you need to see there are other women more than willing to take her place and not just for the stability you can offer.

you need to empower yourself a regain control of your life and not let this woman keep being the owner of your thoughts and feelings.


----------



## BetrayedDad

tom67 said:


> Has she been tested for STDs?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. I forced her too shortly after d-day. She didn't have anything...


----------



## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> man, that is why we have been telling you to get ride of her toxic influence out of your house, but you keep having sex with her, you keep allowing her to give you the illusion that she cares for you "treating you like a king", she will not let go of you becuase you are her anchor, but as you have seen she has no intention to treat you with the *real* respect you deserve.


I'm so done. She's still sobbing uncontrollably in the other room as I type this. I asked her why???? She said she still had unresolved feelings for him. She dumped him for ME 10 years ago!!! Are you kidding me and she still can't get over him? It's just one excuse after another. She's so broken it's beyond belief. I'm just starting to think she's f***ing nuts!


----------



## aug

BetrayedDad said:


> *I'm so done.* She's still sobbing uncontrollably in the other room as I type this. I asked her why???? She said she still had unresolved feelings for him. She dumped him for ME 10 years ago!!! Are you kidding me and she still can't get over him? It's just one excuse after another. She's so broken it's beyond belief. I'm just starting to think she's f***ing nuts!



No. No, you're not. You're not even close, it seems.


----------



## BetrayedDad

aug said:


> No. No, you're not. You're not even close, it seems.


Do I still care about her and are my feelings hurt? Of course but she has to leave the house. I know this now for certain. There is no way around it. Only then can I truly start to detach...


----------



## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm so done. She's still sobbing uncontrollably in the other room as I type this. I asked her why???? She said she still had unresolved feelings for him. She dumped him for ME 10 years ago!!! Are you kidding me and she still can't get over him? It's just one excuse after another. She's so broken it's beyond belief. I'm just starting to think she's f***ing nuts!


She almost needs a 30 day in patient.

Do you trust her around the kids?

These are some massive mood swings.


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## LongWalk

She's almost a serial cheater.

Sorry for you, and her, too. Really, she's ruined her life. Nothing to celebrate. The discussions you had with her about her having entered into a relationship with OM but failing to inform you that your relationship had ended – surreal.

Tell your ex that she needs to live for period of time without men. She needs to clear her head for the sake of your children.

Thank her for telling you about the ONS. Tell her that coming clean will help you both in the long run.


----------



## dymo

BetrayedDad said:


> I told my spouse I had software that could download deleted texts from her iPhone. I lied but she bought it. She just confessed she had an ONS with her ex boyfriend in a hotel in early 2011. It wasn't just an EA, just more trickle truth. So that's two PA's now she's had in the last three years. I'm just so disgusted I'm at a loss for words...


You do know that it is possible to get deleted texts off an Iphone, right?


----------



## Really!?!?

Thor said:


> I had never really thought of it quite like that. My wife was kindergarten through about 3rd grade, so the same age range as your wife. I thought of it as having her childhood stolen, and how her adult life has been so damaged. But I never thought of it as being almost her entire life experience. She doesn't have any normal memories or experiences to draw upon.
> 
> Sad indeed.


The unfortunate thing for both our W's,... is that it is THEIR NORMAL. That's all they've known,..... a life where their earliest memories began with someone Sexually Abusing them. 

When I acknowledge this (which is hard to do when the W can outwardly appear to be "together" or "normal" most the time), I mourn for her lost childhood, and I'm also quite amazed actually that she can function as much as she can most the time.

It's when she does incredilby selfish and horrid things that hurt other people, that I remember "it's all part of her illness".


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Thank you for posting! I never really thought of it from that angle before. You make a lot of good points and I'm going to tell her to bring it up in counseling.


Don't underestimate the effects of CSA on a survivor. I encourage you to study, research, and learn as much as you can about it, if nothing more than to keep your sanity. Trust me on that. Don't do it to help your Ex-W heal. That won't work and will backfire if you try. Do it for your knowledge so you can move on with your life, with or without her.



> So far so good. She has been working on her healing since she asked for reconciliation almost 4 weeks ago. Right now I can see she has a broken heart from the OM and has been griefing the loss of the affair. Towards the end, she became very heavily emotionally vested in the prince charming the OM portrayed himself to be. To her it was a trusting relationship and he threw her under the bus. She now knows he used her and lied to her. I can see that hurts her. Personally, I think she's an idiot for ever trusting a man who cheats on his pregnant wife but I guess that's why it's called a fog.


The process for healing has just started, and may take many years. There is no quick fix to this,.... she is bummed about the broken affair, not because of lost love, but because her current "escape from her demons", has gone off course. It was only a temporary distraction for her, and was never going to last. CSA Survivors Act Out, because it's part of their coping mechanisms. It's more complex because of the CSA. Read that book I mentioned.




> It seems like the fog as lifted for her. I know she is sorry for the pain she caused me. She's tells me she loves me but I can tell the depression sometimes impedes her affection towards me. She wants to be in a relationship with me but that intangible euphoria, lust, desire whatever you want to call it isn't there. After detaching from me for so long, it will take time to come back if it ever does. I was after all dead to her emotionally. She's clearly a very broken person.


It may takes years for her to regain any sexual attraction from her towards you, if ever. I was divorced from my W, seperated for 2 years, then reconciled and remarried. The end of the first marriage she had that same loss of intimacy, sexual interest, etc,... but then regained it after the R. It's all part of the illness,.... when the relationship/marriage gets more intimate, their defenses go down and their CSA trauma feelings emerge, and they start blaming you for those bad feelings, because they don't want to admit or acknowledge the root cause of them because of the severe pain from it. This is probably more complex than you realize at this time. When you said she loves you, but is not in love with you,.... this is a true tale sign that the CSA trauma has created a dis-connect in how her emotions and sexuality towards you is confusing for her. Again, read that book - it will explain this far better than I can. It also explains why Marital Infidelity is highly desired by the CSA Survivor,... vs. sex within the marriage. This is something you need to take seriously,.... and may help you move on faster. It's clear you're having a hard time letting go,.... I understand this. Don't feel pressured by other posts that can't understand why it's so hard for you to kick her to curb so easily. Do some research on CSA, then you'll start seeing things more clearly.



> I don't know if I can forgive her or trust her ever again. I would LIKE too but how? She knowingly betrayed me, humiliated me, disrespected me and destroyed our family just so she could be happy with someone else. Completely selfish. Now, after everything she took for granted, she wants a do over.


Yeah, this would be really hard to do. You know her pattern now,.... so there's not much likelihood that it will change (without drastic work on her part, and a lot of years). Do you really want this to happen to you again in the next couple of years? 



> She would of dumped me if OM was the real deal. I was her plan B. At this point I'd almost rather move on and find someone else who will truely love me and be faithful to me. Seems like a daunting task and it scares the hell out of me.


I understand this fear,... but you have one life to live. Don't live it walking on eggshells the rest of your life. Your Ex-W has a huge healing journey to go on,.... and even if she does the work, there's still only a small chance that she will fully heal from this,.... unfortunately. Those are the stats I've read, is all. 

She's got a long road ahead of her,....


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah, I 100% agree. No argument here. That's why I'm trying to gently get her out of the house...
> 
> Watching her grieve the loss of her POSOM, while pretending to still be interested in me, is a special kind of hell.


She's using you. Pretty sure you know that, right?

You're like her daddy,.... you pay the bills, and she knows you still have a place in your heart for her. That gives her comfort. At least now she knows she's got a lot of work to do on herself, and knowing you're there to comfort her and keep a roof over her head, she can survive. 

Key word, SURVIVE. That's all she's doing right now.


----------



## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm so done. She's still sobbing uncontrollably in the other room as I type this. I asked her why???? She said she still had unresolved feelings for him. She dumped him for ME 10 years ago!!! Are you kidding me and she still can't get over him? It's just one excuse after another. She's so broken it's beyond belief. I'm just starting to think she's f***ing nuts!


Your Ex is unbelievable, so she just end mourning her coworker OM and now she is mourning her ex boyfriend OM. So this woman will fall in love with whoever give her attention but you.

I want to go to your house and drag her out myself.

I am sorry to tell you this but I believe that maybe your mother was right and she really never has loved you.


----------



## Thor

manticore said:


> I am sorry to tell you this but I believe that maybe your mother was right and she really never has loved you.


CSA really can screw with her brain. She may have shown deep real love before the wedding, but afterwards it became a nightmare for her (literally). Sex and close emotional intimacy may have become very difficult and frightening to her within the marriage, yet with someone else outside the marriage it felt "normal" to her.

But, BD feels safe to her at times. And she desperately needs safety. She just doesn't feel safe when BD wants a close emotional experience with her, whether it be sex or just having deep real conversations.

BD's ex is definitely selfish. But it is complicated. And BD is in a complicated position as spouse (or ex-spouse) of a CSA survivor.


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## harrybrown

She is totally broken.

Get her out before the holidays. This in not good for you at all.

You need to detach, she is poison for you. For you to someday to even start to heal, you must get her totally out of your life and out of your house.

Sorry for you that she is not the woman you thought she was, but if you find out more, it will only get worse and worse.


----------



## Really!?!?

Thor said:


> CSA really can screw with her brain. She may have shown deep real love before the wedding, but afterwards it became a nightmare for her (literally). Sex and close emotional intimacy may have become very difficult and frightening to her within the marriage, yet with someone else outside the marriage it felt "normal" to her.


:iagree: This is all part of the illness




> But, BD feels safe to her at times. And she desperately needs safety. She just doesn't feel safe when BD wants a close emotional experience with her, whether it be sex or just having deep real conversations.


Yep,... this is why it's confusing to you BD. The CSA Survivor's behavior is totally different than what we would consider "normal" logic. A couple things my IC has stated to me that have helped: "you can't make logic out of something illogical", "you have been in a relationship with her illness, for however long you've been with her".

BD, at what age did her CSA happen to her? For me and Thor, our W's had it happen to them during the ages of 4 - 8 or 9 years old). Given the fact that most people's earliest memories start around ages 2 - 3,.... our W's lifelong memories started with this horrid CSA. It wasn't their fault clearly, since they were young children,.... but CSA has traumatized them their entire lives (childhood, adolescence, adulthood, marriage, parenthood), and have left a wake of broken relatonships and confused/hurt spouses (men and women) in the dust. 

There is added complexity when you have children with a CSA survivor - as I know you, Thor, and I have. You will have to deal with her whether you're with her or not, because of the kids (school, college, when the kids get married, have your grandchildren, etc,...). The research and knowledge/understanding you gain now about CSA, how it affects the Ex and you as a former spouse,... will help you cope with it the REST OF YOUR LIFE. 

Warning: even if she moves out, and you never R with her (which is doubtful), you will still need to deal with her. Trust me on this - my W has a child from a previous relationship, and I've seen the petty bickering, battle for control, game playing, money arguments, custody fights, etc,... It's not pretty. I've been the referee between the W and her child's father for the past 13 years,.... We have a younger child together, and now I'm going to see what it's like being on the receiving end of the W's wrath, once we divorce  



> BD's ex is definitely selfish. But it is complicated. And BD is in a complicated position as spouse (or ex-spouse) of a CSA survivor.


:iagree: Yes he is - and he is just beginning to realize how the CSA has impacted his marriage. I beleive Thor has been married 30+ years to a survivor, and I've been with mine for 13 years. I knew about my W's CSA history before we married. We talked about it, she said she had worked on it, and was "cured". Not the case however - she did try a lot of counseling, 12 steps for co-dependancy, etc,.... but reverted back to her pattern of broken relationships.

I look back now, and I knew she had dated alot, and she was also married/divorced before we married the first time. My 2nd marriage to her, is her 3rd. How did I not see this pattern!?!?:crazy:

Because,.... I was too close and entrenched in the relationship. I couldn't see - looking from the inside, out. All my family saw it though, looking from their perspective.

The W said she dated a lot, because she didn't want to "settle" for just anyone, and that she wanted "true love", and someone she could trust with her heart. 

That ended up being me,... and we we're actually very much in love for a long time. But eventually, that love and trust ended up backfiring on our relationship because of the CSA. The more she trusted me, the more she felt comfortable letting her defense systems down (which had been surpressing her CSA Trauma for years), and then she would have re-visited CSA related memories start to surface. This is the "ghost" persona that Survivors become haunted with. Other sources call this the "mask",.... which is like this "far away stoned-cold contenance look". If you have ever witnessed this "look", it is down right chilling.

As a painful episode of fear and horror would emerge, she would become emotionally crippled or numb, but not understand where the source came from. She couldn't dis-associate the past CSA trauma related feelings, from the present,... so she would then "connect" those bad feelings with something she could focus blame on,... and yes, that would be me. It's an easy solution for a survivor to blame their spouses for these bad memories or feeling. Pretty sure this is the classic formula in CSA relationships. So ironically, the love and trust that intially drew us close - ended up releasing traumatic feelings for her, that eventually drove us apart and prevented her from trusting me anymore. 

Another part of coping, is acting out - which includes anger, drugs, alcohol, and/or or extra-marital sex, affairs,..... not something I enjoyed reading about as a possiblity. I think my W so desparately wanted a "normal" commited marriage, for better or worse, til death do us part, etc,... but I don't think she is capable of it. She doesn't think she's capable of it. 

It's all part of the illness.

Read, study, learn,..... it will help you move on.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> So everyone tells me LOL.
> 
> If I do that then she will do the same and just not tell me. And that's a trigger I really don't need to rehash.
> 
> Once she leaves the house and I'm not around her anymore then I will careless what she does. Out of sight, out of mind.


That's a trigger that will always be there,... it's all part of the illness.


----------



## Really!?!?

LongWalk said:


> Would be interesting to know if there have been studies on how love can shift from one subject to another. As the OM gradually becomes less important, does the BH fill up the empty space if they are having sex?
> 
> If the WW is cast into isolation, will they fantasize about the OM or BH? Probably there is no single answer but there may be patterns.


Yes, there are a ton of books on this. 

There are definately patterns for CSA Survivor relationships, affairs, broken relationships,.... it's like a Black Widow persona.

It's all a part of the illness


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm so done. She's still sobbing uncontrollably in the other room as I type this. I asked her why???? She said she still had unresolved feelings for him. She dumped him for ME 10 years ago!!! Are you kidding me and she still can't get over him? It's just one excuse after another. She's so broken it's beyond belief. I'm just starting to think she's f***ing nuts!


Believe it,.... she is broken. It's too bad really,.... this happened to her years ago - way before you even met her.

It's all part of the illness.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Do I still care about her and are my feelings hurt? Of course but she has to leave the house. I know this now for certain. There is no way around it. Only then can I truly start to detach...



Don't beat yourself about this. Remember, your emotions are still needing to catch up with everything that's happened, what you've learned recently (that happened years ago), the other PA, etc,...

You said you are the Nice Guy type, that you wear your emotions on your sleeve, etc,.... that means you need more time to "PROCESS" all this.

Don't worry, it will happen.


----------



## Really!?!?

LongWalk said:


> She's almost a serial cheater.


This is part of the illness


----------



## Thor

Really!?!? said:


> This is the "ghost" persona that Survivors become haunted with. Other sources call this the "mask",.... which is like this "far away stoned-cold contenance look". If you have ever witnessed this "look", it is down right chilling.


I have been scanning all our old photos into the computer this year. The ones of us when dating and in the early days of our marriage in the 1980's are just exactly how I remember her being. Bright, happy, adventurous. Then the ones from after the first daughter were born. She looks _haunted_. The difference is shocking.

That was when she changed so dramatically, and has told me (recently) that she was having nightmares and flashbacks. The birth of a baby girl brought all the trauma to the surface.

It really is shocking to see the difference.


----------



## dymo

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm so done. She's still sobbing uncontrollably in the other room as I type this. I asked her why???? She said she still had unresolved feelings for him. She dumped him for ME 10 years ago!!! Are you kidding me and she still can't get over him? It's just one excuse after another. She's so broken it's beyond belief. I'm just starting to think she's f***ing nuts!


Don't take this the wrong way, but - were you the OM at the beginning?


----------



## BetrayedDad

dymo said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but - were you the OM at the beginning?


That's a fair question. Unknowingly, I think I was looking back on everything. She was with him for three years when I met her. She SWORE to me their relationship was over when she started seeing me. I believed her at the time. I don't anymore. I think there was a little overlap. She didn't dump her exboyfriend until I commited to be hers. Seems to be a pattern of behavior with her. Can't be alone. That's what I think REALLY happened in hindsight...


----------



## happyman64

So what do you think you need to do BD?


----------



## turnera

Really!?!? said:


> This is part of the illness


Either that, or finding OTHER ways to self-destruct, and usually involving men. But self-destruct they will.


----------



## BetrayedDad

happyman64 said:


> So what do you think you need to do BD?


She will be moving out. I'm as certain of that as I was in divorcing her. I can't save this relationship anymore. She's too f***ed up in the head. She's still begging me to work it out but there's no way. How can I stand for this? Our marriage was a complete fallacy. On what planet would a MARRIED woman think it was OK to have full blown "relationships" (her words) with other men behind her husband's back? The original affair was bad enough but sleeping with MULTIPLE people? This is just too much. I feel like my head is going to explode. Never in a million years did I expect this.... 

I can't believe how SELFISH she is. I feel disgusted, humiliated, embarrassed, ashamed, betrayed, used, angry, and I feel sad for my children. She just threw me and the kids away because we were an inconvenience to her. I was married to a slvt with no conscious. Just tell her you care about her and she drops her panties. It's literally that easy. I can't believe how stupid she is. Both guys used her, then dumped her. THAT'S what she ruined our family for...


----------



## tom67

I hope she gets help so she is at least a stable mother for her children.
Did any of these affairs coincide around the time of conception of any of your kids?
Just food for thought she is really a serial cheater that needs therapy bad.
You are doing great considering.


----------



## harrybrown

Get tested again for stds and DNA testing on the kids.

Sorry that she had no morals. Get her out of your life.


----------



## tom67

harrybrown said:


> Get tested again for stds and DNA testing on the kids.
> 
> Sorry that she had no morals. Get her out of your life.


Betrayed you will always be their dad biologically or not.

You do the test so you know as far as any future health considerations for them such as needing blood ect.


----------



## BetrayedDad

tom67 said:


> I hope she gets help so she is at least a stable mother for her children.


Me too... She says she's going to but I'll believe it when I see it. She has IC tomorrow night.



tom67 said:


> Did any of these affairs coincide around the time of conception of any of your kids?
> Just food for thought she is really a serial cheater that needs therapy bad.


The first PA was a few years after my youngest was born. And if there was another one before that then I really don't want to know otherwise at this point.



tom67 said:


> You are doing great considering.


I'm really a mess but at this point it's just beating a dead horse. Finding out about the first EA six years ago, broke my heart. Finding out about this PA three months ago, ripped it out of my chest. Now with news of this second PA I feel like I have nothing left to give. I'm already emotionally drained and empty inside.....


----------



## tom67

If your insurance covers it, get some ic if you can.

Just realize this is NOT your fault

The only one who can fix her is her

This was not about you and you will bounce back.


----------



## sandc

Search for bff. Read his thread. He is doing better than ever.


----------



## happyman64

> I feel disgusted, humiliated, embarrassed, ashamed, betrayed, used, angry, and I feel sad for my children.


BD

You just described how she should be feeling.

Clean up this mess she made. detach. Heal.

You will begin to feel better in time.

And yes. Read BFF's thread. Great idea.

HM


----------



## Really!?!?

BD, I'm sorry you're going through this. It's really painful.



BetrayedDad said:


> She will be moving out. I'm as certain of that as I was in divorcing her. I can't save this relationship anymore. She's too f***ed up in the head.


There's nothing there to save,... the realtionship was broken, so accept that and let yourself move on. It takes time, so you'll need to remind yourself that there's no point in saving a broken relationship. All saving it will do, is keep the possibility to be hurt again, and again. Letting go is hard, but you have to do it.



> She's still begging me to work it out but there's no way.


She's doing that because the part of her that knows how good she had is not letting go,.... but the other parts of her that betrayed you, have hurt you for too long. 



> How can I stand for this? Our marriage was a complete fallacy. On what planet would a MARRIED woman think it was OK to have full blown "relationships" (her words) with other men behind her husband's back? The original affair was bad enough but sleeping with MULTIPLE people? This is just too much. I feel like my head is going to explode. Never in a million years did I expect this....


She's not from the same planet (or reality at least), that you are existing in. That's why it's hard for you to understand how she could have done this,.... and why she can't understand why what she did is so wrong. I know I keep saying this, and I'm not minimizing the impact of it,... but "it's part of the illness". The reason I say this repeatedly, is because it's part of my "self talk" exercise that my IC suggested. I have to remind myself that my W's totally selfish and hurtful behavior, is part of her illness. How she can totally disregard her participation as a wife, partner, parent, and adult,.... in all her relationships, and to behave so recklessly to serve her own petty needs. She says she loves me and the kids, but wants to be pursued by other men, so she can feel good about herself. Well ****ty girl,.... go get your stank on,.... but our family is moving on without you. 



> I can't believe how SELFISH she is. I feel disgusted, humiliated, embarrassed, ashamed, betrayed, used, angry, and I feel sad for my children. She just threw me and the kids away because we were an inconvenience to her. I was married to a slvt with no conscious. Just tell her you care about her and she drops her panties. It's literally that easy. I can't believe how stupid she is. Both guys used her, then dumped her. THAT'S what she ruined our family for...


Again, this is the same pattern you will find with survivors who tend to act out. It's not a pretty reality and something that's not easy to accept. But, it's very real, and common. I've lost 30 lbs in the past 4 months from stress, anxiety, depression, over this. But, it's a fact - and they will only continue to hurt you. We gotta cut the cord, as difficult as it is. 

Ask yourself,.... how old is your W. And how long has she been doing this? Mine is 45 years old,.... and has been living with CSA for 40 years. She has been a back-stabbing liar about 40 of those years. I don't see much hope for her changing at this point. does anybody else out there think differently?

Again, sorry for your hurt BD. Perhaps all this hurt is meant for you to move on sooner, for yourself and the kids.


----------



## dymo

Not sure if threads like bff are 100% are applicable. Such threads show infidelity handled beautifully, but the key difference between those threads and threads like this one is there are children involved. That makes no-contact next to impossible, and makes resolutions much less clear-cut. There is no one-size-fits-all course of action.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Really!?!? said:


> There's nothing there to save,... the realtionship was broken, so accept that and let yourself move on. It takes time, so you'll need to remind yourself that there's no point in saving a broken relationship. All saving it will do, is keep the possibility to be hurt again, and again. Letting go is hard, but you have to do it.
> 
> She's doing that because the part of her that knows how good she had is not letting go,.... but the other parts of her that betrayed you, have hurt you for too long.


I've already decided to let go... I don't really have a choice. What's the alternative? More of this? How could I ever trust her?

She's more obessed than ever to try to make it work. It's almost like the more truth that's exposed, the more horrible she feels (NOT because she did those things mind you but because I now KNOW she did them) and the more desperate she becomes to work things out. In her twisted mind, she wanted to fool around with these men she just didn't want to find out about it because it would hurt me. Her mental mantra is as long as I don't find out, then it's OK to be bad. Amazing now, how badly she wants something that just three short months ago she had no problem throwing away and taking for granted. Now she wants her family AFTER the POSOM tosses her under the bus. Caveat emptor applies in affairs too it seems. Sickening...




Really!?!? said:


> She's not from the same planet (or reality at least), that you are existing in. That's why it's hard for you to understand how she could have done this,.... and why she can't understand why what she did is so wrong. I know I keep saying this, and I'm not minimizing the impact of it,... but "it's part of the illness". The reason I say this repeatedly, is because it's part of my "self talk" exercise that my IC suggested. I have to remind myself that my W's totally selfish and hurtful behavior, is part of her illness. How she can totally disregard her participation as a wife, partner, parent, and adult,.... in all her relationships, and to behave so recklessly to serve her own petty needs. She says she loves me and the kids, but wants to be pursued by other men, so she can feel good about herself. Well ****ty girl,.... go get your stank on,.... but our family is moving on without you.


Reckless is an understatement. She stopped using condoms with the OM early on in the affair and she wasn't on any birth control at all. They joked about it, called it the "pull and pray" method. You want to be a selfish piece of crap. OK, fine. Why risk potential pregnancy or your health? Disgusting and stupid.




Really!?!? said:


> Again, this is the same pattern you will find with survivors who tend to act out. It's not a pretty reality and something that's not easy to accept. But, it's very real, and common. I've lost 30 lbs in the past 4 months from stress, anxiety, depression, over this. But, it's a fact - and they will only continue to hurt you. We gotta cut the cord, as difficult as it is.
> 
> Ask yourself,.... how old is your W. And how long has she been doing this? Mine is 45 years old,.... and has been living with CSA for 40 years. She has been a back-stabbing liar about 40 of those years. I don't see much hope for her changing at this point. does anybody else out there think differently?


I've lost 50 lbs myself. She's almost 40 but has the emotional maturity of a teenager apparently. I don't know exactly when it happened but she's probably been living with the scars of her abuse for 25-30 years now. I don't think she'll ever change. I think she's WANTS to (nobody wants to be a horrible person, they just can't help themselves) and is just trying to fake it till she makes it. Nobody has an epifany and wakes up with morals.


----------



## harrybrown

BD-

So sorry it has turned out this way. I wish you future happiness when she is out of there, and when you are ready for someone that actually loves and cares about you.

I could not handle it. I would have to have NC and be out every evening until she is out of there. 

The 180 would be my best friend.


----------



## Chaparral

Please check out PTSD counseling. Many of the posters through here have had great results. Good luck.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Venting on TAM is my therapy..... 

I just found out 3 days ago my ex got promoted from cheater to serial cheater and they weren't just flings... 

She's been shopping around for a new man for quite sometime now. That's not supposed to bother me? 

I already know what I have to do with regard to her. This is one of those open and shut cases. Not much gray area here.


----------



## alte Dame

BetrayedDad said:


> In her twisted mind, she wanted to fool around with these men she just didn't want to find out about it because it would hurt me. Her mental mantra is as long as I don't find out, then it's OK to be bad.


This is very like the mindset of a serial cheater. They have lives that are secret to their nuclear families and act like two different people in their two different lives. They insist that they love their spouses, that they put them on a different plane.

The thing is, BD, all the while she is insisting that you are the important relationship, it is you she is hiding half of her real self from. Her OMs know all of her; they don't get lied to. She lets her hair down with them. And that to me is the rub - her true self is visible when she is catting around with other men. That's when she's relaxed. Her not wanting to hurt you is just an admission of her awareness that you would never accept the true her. 

Serial cheater.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BetrayedDad said:


> She's more obsessed than ever to try to make it work.


Well, this didn't last long. After telling me everything I wanted to hear, and I knew that's what she was doing, three days later she's back to her old tricks (ie blame shifting, question dodging, etc.) Had a huge blow out fight yesterday night. Called each other a bunch of names. Not really talking to each other now. Didn't take long for her to give up trying (Not that I would even entertain ever taking her back at this point but I do enjoy watching her beg)... 

She's the serial cheater but apparently I'm partly to blame for it. Really? Because honestly I don't give a crap how unattentive she felt I was to her because I felt the same way too. So that somehow validates or excuses doing what you did? She treated me like dog crap. Especially, while the affairs were going on so why didn't I go do the same thing? Oh yeah, cause I'm not a POS looking for excuses to justify my selfish behavior. Flat out said if I did that to her then she would hate me. Guess that's why she didn't tell me she was slvtting around. It's OK for her to get some side action but not me. I guess she had no choice but to cheat and not tell me. It all makes sense now. 

She's CONVINCED herself that I has horrible to her. LIE. That I never cared about her. LIE. That she was this amazing wife and mom. LIE. That our marriage was in the gutter. LIE. It wasn't perfect but it was FAR from being what she's make it out to be in her twisted head. If it was in the gutter it was because she threw it there. More pathetic self rationalization so she can look herself in the mirror in the morning. I'm SUCH an awful perosn yet A) she could of left anytime she wanted too and B) now she wants to work it out. I don't know folks but how bad could I be if she was willing to keep me around as plan B?

Sorry need to vent and yes I know she needs to go. I'm working on it.....


----------



## BK23

Put her crap in storage and change the locks.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

BetrayedDad said:


> She's CONVINCED herself that I has horrible to her. LIE. That I never cared about her. LIE. That she was this amazing wife and mom. LIE. That our marriage was in the gutter. LIE. It wasn't perfect but it was FAR from being what she's make it out to be in her twisted head. If it was in the gutter it was because she threw it there. More pathetic self rationalization so she can look herself in the mirror in the morning. I'm SUCH an awful perosn yet A) she could of left anytime she wanted too and B) now she wants to work it out. I don't know folks but how bad could I be if she was willing to keep me around as plan B?
> 
> Sorry need to vent and yes I know she needs to go. I'm working on it.....


One of the better ways to deal with this is to just not argue. Everything she throws at you, you simply say "I understand you feel that way. That is why we need to get divorced."

Don't argue, don't call her names, don't escalate in any way. Just keep repeating that response. It will frustrate her to no end, as part of this is her need to control you and your emotions, even if it is by causing you to be angry.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Best part I said, "Would you consider yourself a serial cheater?" and she says, "No, because I only cheated on you."

Awesome.


----------



## BK23

Tall Average Guy said:


> One of the better ways to deal with this is to just not argue. Everything she throws at you, you simply say "I understand you feel that way. That is why we need to get divorced."
> 
> Don't argue, don't call her names, don't escalate in any way. Just keep repeating that response. It will frustrate her to no end, as part of this is her need to control you and your emotions, even if it is by causing you to be angry.


They're already divorced! She's just hanging around on his dime.


----------



## Clay2013

Its time to wake up. This is no longer just a bad dream its your reality. If you don't separate yourself from this woman its going to do a lot more damage that even you realize was possible. You have to protect yourself. I get that its easier to say than to do but only you can save you now. 

Either boot her out or you leave. Do NC with her except for the kids stuff. If she even says anything other than that hang up. No in person talks at all. Its time to clear her out of your life. 

Clay


----------



## LongWalk

BetrayedDad said:


> Best part I said, "Would you consider yourself a serial cheater?" and she says, "No, because I only cheated on you."
> 
> Awesome.


She is an awesome cheater.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Tall Average Guy said:


> One of the better ways to deal with this is to just not argue. Everything she throws at you, you simply say "I understand you feel that way.


Yeah I'm divorced already. I rammed it through on principal.

It's stupid to keep rehashing but I know it's me. I'm the one who keeps wanting to talk about it. I'm still shocked and angry to find out she was capable of this kind of cruelty. That her wedding vows meant so little to her and so much to me. I keep expecting to wake up from a nightmare. Talking about it is the only thing that keeps me from punching holes in the walls of my house. She sits there most of the time silent. I ask her questions. She never has any answers. I just can't believe she did this to me. I'm definitely far from over it... 

If it were up to her she would rug sweep the whole thing and never speak of it again. She's been carrying this around so long it doesn't even phase her. After all, why should she be upset? I'm the one who got screwed over. I'm the one who was used. No one betrayed her. I really don't think she understands the gravity of her actions. Like I'm just supposed to get over this quickly? I know she didn't want to purposely hurt me but being selfish was more important to her than me. Plus she never expected me to find out either, so what's the harm right? 

I'm just completely blown away. I will never reconcile with her. She disgusts me. I just want to cleanly cut ties.

:banghead:


----------



## turnera

Tall Average Guy said:


> One of the better ways to deal with this is to just not argue. Everything she throws at you, you simply say "I understand you feel that way. That is why we need to get divorced."


Until you try it, you have no idea how MUCH this deflates them and _causes them stress_. You not caring will drive her batty. Battier.


----------



## turnera

Cleanly cut ties...you mean like _having her out of YOUR house?_


----------



## Tall Average Guy

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah I'm divorced already. I rammed it through on principal.


My apologies. Change it to "That is why you need to leave"



> It's stupid to keep rehashing but I know it's me. I'm the one who keeps wanting to talk about it. I'm still shocked and angry to find out she was capable of this kind of cruelty. That her wedding vows meant so little to her and so much to me. I keep expecting to wake up from a nightmare. Talking about it is the only thing that keeps me from punching holes in the walls of my house. She sits there most of the time silent. I ask her questions. She never has any answers. I just can't believe she did this to me. I'm definitely far from over it...
> 
> If it were up to her she would rug sweep the whole thing and never speak of it again. She's been carrying this around so long it doesn't even phase her. After all, why should she be upset? I'm the one who got screwed over. I'm the one who was used. No one betrayed her. I really don't think she understands the gravity of her actions. Like I'm just supposed to get over this quickly? I know she didn't want to purposely hurt me but being selfish was more important to her than me. Plus she never expected me to find out either, so what's the harm right?
> 
> I'm just completely blown away. I will never reconcile with her. She disgusts me. I just want to cleanly cut ties.
> 
> :banghead:


My point is that engaging with her keeps you attached to her. Much like a child, bad attention is better than no attention. Add to it that it shows her how she can affect you, and you can see how the dynamic won't work for you.

By not engaging, you take that away from her.


----------



## happyman64

> I know she didn't want to purposely hurt me but being selfish was more important to her than me.


BD

When you are less emotional you will come to see that at the level of selfishness she displayed that you, your marriage nor your family even entered into the equation.

Some people are so selfish they can only think of themselves still certain times, while making certain decision, while engaging in infidelity.

That is why they never think they will get caught......

HM


----------



## harrybrown

She is a serial cheater. Most on TAM would consider her a serial cheater. (there are sometimes opposing viewpoints)

Can you get her out of your house before Thanksgiving? Take the kids and go someplace without her, even if it is to a relatives thanksgiving dinner. 

Start dating every night so that you do not have to be in the same house with her. 

Do not talk to her anymore. Only text about the kids. You need to date and soon.


----------



## BetrayedDad

happyman64 said:


> When you are less notional you will come to see that at the level of selfishness she displayed that you, your marriage nor your family even entered into the equation.


I'm starting to see this. She was weak and the temptation was too great. Opportunity presented itself. She wanted to do it so she did it. Regardless of the reprecussions which was the only thing that would stop her. So she lied. She put the guilt of our family right out of her head by rationalizing that I would never find out. Therefore no harm would come to us and she could satisfy her selfish desires with impunity. Reprecussions are now gone therefore there's nothing to stop her from continuing to do it. The more she did it, the easier it became and the more brazen she was about it. It almost became "normal" for her.

You just have to mentally be in a very dark evil place to behave like a cheater. I hope I'm never in a place like that in my lifetime.


----------



## BK23

I'll stop harping, but don't you think it's time to tell her to get out?

Barring that, for your own sanity, please stop engaging with her. You're getting nothing out of these conversations but more hurt.


----------



## BetrayedDad

BK23 said:


> I'll stop harping, but don't you think it's time to tell her to get out?


I will. She has to leave the house. On that my mind is made up. I feel terrible doing it right before Christmas to the kids. 



BK23 said:


> Barring that, for your own sanity, please stop engaging with her. You're getting nothing out of these conversations but more hurt.


You're right about this too. I know way more than I need to. I need to stop asking her why she did it. Does it really matter? I don't even think she knows why she did it. She agrees it was selfish and wrong. All I'm doing is rehashing it over and over and hurting myself. I'm going to make a conscious attempt to stop. I'm just still blown away that someone would flush their beautiful family down the drain. I guess some people are just broken.


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## turnera

meh, they can have fun helping her decorate her new place. Better now than 3 weeks from now.


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## BK23

There's always going to be something, and no matter when you do this, it's going to suck.

The kids will recover. Just be present for them. I forget, how old are they? If older than 3 or 4, consider a counselor to help them through it. More than an intact family, they need a father who is happy and well. You can't be the father they need with your terrible ex in your home.


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## vi_bride04

Its more damaging to the kids to be in a toxic environment such as your household while she is still living there.


Get her out before Christmas. Like Turnera said, they will have fun decorating her new place. Also I would think being together for Christmas as a family will give them false hope.


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## movin on

ww and om both got fired after i exposed to hr.i got custody of kids because ww has no job to support them.she is out of the house and i feel soooooo much better.

this is how this thresd should have ended.about two months ago.


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## dymo

While she is still living with you, have a look into "The 180", and consider implementing it. You need to detach, and if you're going to detach while she's still in the house, you need a game plan. The 180 list may be what you need. Link to list below.

See Question #11 for summary


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## BetrayedDad

Update: Told the Ex I want her out by January. She agrees the best thing would be for her to leave. She says she wants to do it so she can become a stronger independent person. She has no intention of dating anyone and just wants to be on her own to sort out her feelings. She wants to get a part time job too to keep busy. Whatever lie she has to tell herself to leave my house is fine with me. I'll believe that nonsense when I see it. She still works with the OM but I'm fairly certain they are through, for now anyway. Must like the apartment hunting prior, she's been half-heartedly looking for a job.

She basically gave me the ILYBINILWY line. She said of course she will still always be there for me if I ever needed her and still wants to maybe hang out and be actively involved in my life. Just sounds like more attempts to cake eat to me. I think she's scared to be alone too. Her reasonings for the betrayal are she convinced herself that I never TRUELY cared about her and that's why she started relationships with other people. Because they pretended to care about her and she thought it was genuine. That made her want to be with them and not me. She still feels attraction for the recent OM that she doesn't feel with me but says she KNOWS he would never be a stable or trusting relationship. She's trying to get over him. She can have him. He's a pathetic loser and I don't think she'll ever stop pining over him until she's actually with him and spends time with him outside the back of his pick up truck.

It's going to be a massive adjustment after she goes. I know it's for the best. She's too broken to ever trust again and is far too passive a person to fix that. Everyone keeps telling me I should be excited to be starting over, I'm a great catch blah blah. I'm personally dreading it. I guess I got too comfortable with the status quo and maybe that was part of the problem.


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## harrybrown

Glad you told her to get out.

You need to stop having any contact with her. She is toxic to you. Do the 180, go dark on her, do not contact her except for the kids. Do that by text or email. Keep it short. If she is still in the house, and the kids are fine, you go out somewhere anywhere.

Go to the gym, go to a show, go shopping. Do you have a hobby? Or take one your kids with you, but get away from her. 

She is poison to you, and you need to start dating soon.

Hope you get past the holidays. Try not to involve her too much with the family. You can only take so much poison.


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## Why Not Be Happy?

take time to get in the best physical shade of your life. it'll help you in lots of ways, reduce your stress, make you even more of a catch and have you around and healthy for many years for your kids.


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## BetrayedDad

Why Not Be Happy? said:


> take time to get in the best physical shade of your life. it'll help you in lots of ways, reduce your stress, make you even more of a catch and have you around and healthy for many years for your kids.


That was my plan. I don't really know what I'm going to do with myself (didn't really have time for hobbies before) but getting in shape was going to be one of the few goals I had.


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## dontbeused

BetrayedDad said:


> That was my plan. I don't really know what I'm going to do with myself (didn't really have time for hobbies before) but getting in shape was going to be one of the few goals I had.


Good thread. I am sorry for your marriage, but to see you wrapping your head around this and taking care of making the decisions you have made, I see you doing well in the single life.
Working out is the best catalyst to an enjoyable single life, IMO.
Good Luck !


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## happyman64

> I guess I got too comfortable with the status quo and maybe that was part of the problem.


BD

Just the fact that you can see this problem and feel this way shows me you are going to be great.

And do yourself a favor. You do not need your Ex as a friend.

Who needs a friend like that.

Replace her as a friend. Replace her as your wife.

Remember her as someone that you used to know.

It worked for me. Go be great with someone better.

HM64


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## manticore

I think this is the best thing she has done for you since you began your thread, being honest about how she feels about the OMs in comparation with you. To be brutally honest with you I think that if she have been willing to deceive you and keep you in a delusional state, she have been successful.

Try to enjoy the holydays for your kids, take pictures with them as family, it will be hard but at least they will have something in the future to remind them that they parents tried to stay together but it was just hopeless.


----------



## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> I think this is the best thing she has done for you since you began your thread, being honest about how she feels about the OMs in comparation with you. To be brutally honest with you I think that if she have been willing to deceive you and keep you in a delusional state, she have been successful.


She would not have been successful. I did not want to end the marriage but the affair(s) were a deal breaker for me. And the more time that passes the more of an affirmation that becomes in my mind. She didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. She was only brutally honest with me because I rejected the prior 100 times she lied to me. I just wanted her to give me the respect I deserve and tell me what I already knew for my own sense of closure. I hate liars.

In other news, she found a new job. She starts in a week so she will no longer be working with the OM. Also, she has been applying to apartments and is working hard to be out by Jan. I'm hoping in a month's time I will finally be able to start my new life and find someone who deserves to have me for a partner.


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## workindad

OP I am very happy for you and your kids. Now you can both begin the final healing process. Good for you make sure her move out date doesn't backslide. 

You are about to be so much better off. I know it is scary and confusing at times but stay focused on the new opportunity coming your way. A life minus the cheating liar! 

All the best
WD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking

That is awesome BD. You deserve to have some good things in your life. The faster she is gone the sooner you can heal. You won't heal with her corrupting presence.

By the way, is she in the mix for Christmas? How will that be handled?


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## BetrayedDad

workindad said:


> You are about to be so much better off. I know it is scary and confusing at times but stay focused on the new opportunity coming your way. A life minus the cheating liar!


Definitely scared but I guess I can't do any worse than a serial cheater who tried to run off with another man. Twice... 




LostViking said:


> By the way, is she in the mix for Christmas? How will that be handled?


She is... One last time for the kids we will get together as a family. I can put up with it for one more month. Maybe in the interim, she will finally realize what she gave up and regret it if she doesn't already. The OM never left his wife so she's leaving the house with no one. So she will be gone and I can start 2014 a fresh new man.


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## BetrayedDad

BetrayedDad said:


> In other news, she found a new job. She starts in a week so she will no longer be working with the OM. Also, she has been applying to apartments and is working hard to be out by Jan. I'm hoping in a month's time I will finally be able to start my new life and find someone who deserves to have me for a partner.


Update: She found an apartment about 15 mins away. She will be out by January 1st for sure. In the span of a week she's managed to land a new job and a place to live. Kind of surreal how much can change in six months. 

Now the hard part begins and I start to work on me. There are a ton of improvements I want to make. I feel like in order to become the person I want to be, it is going to be like climbing a steep mountain but I'm going to try my best. 

Even though the WS tried to pull an exit affair on me TWICE and failed, it's going to be hard watching her move on. Just seems so senseless but it's what SHE wanted. As far as I am concerned, I just dumped her before she could dump me. 

Now I can see the regret because she has no one to cling onto. Becareful what you wish for I guess...


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## harrybrown

Good for you in getting her out of your life. She is selfish and never really was the wife you thought she was when you married her. 

The best way is to do the 180 even with Christmas. Let her see the kids, but keep the she poison away from you. 

There are good women out there. You will find one, when you are ready. Keep your distance from her for yourself and for your kids.

Hope you have a great 2014.


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## LostViking

Congratulations BD! That is great news. 

You know, one thing that helped me move on from my second divorce was, after XW#2 moved out, I completely redecorated the house and made it into a full fledged bachelor pad. 

I did it in increments, buying a few things each pay day. I got rid of the old furniture and got all new stuff. New living room set, new bedroom set and bed, I repainted the whole interior, and right now I am gearing up to renovate the kitchen. I'm going to turn my utilitarian kitchen into a gourmet kitchen that Julia Child would envy. 

Redecorating the house will eliminate alot of the triggers of your marriage and help you look forward and not back. Make sure you get rid of everything that reminds you of your STBXWW and your relationship to her. It may sound a bit cruel, but you really need to erase all remnants of her existence from your life.


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## happyman64

One day at a time BD. one day at a time.

Work on your issues now.


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## jim123

Remember she had a head start on you. The odds are in your favor. You have less work to do on yourself than you think. Once you are past all of this, things tend to work out.

I know a lot of men like you. Good men take a little longer to move on. At first it will be hard to date. In about a year you will see it is a man's world. There are so few good men, you will be a commodity. 

Don't make the male mistake and go for the youngest and hottest, find the best.

Your wife will find it easy to date with an endless amount of men who want to bed her. For a short while, she will have a great time. She will realize at some point that these men have no real interest in her other than sex.

Your WW will have a far less likely chance of finding a LTR. Generally speaking, she will have to trade down to get one.

You will trade up. Just be smart in doing so.


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## tom67

jim123 said:


> Remember she had a head start on you. The odds are in your favor. You have less work to do on yourself than you think. Once you are past all of this, things tend to work out.
> 
> I know a lot of men like you. Good men take a little longer to move on. At first it will be hard to date. In about a year you will see it is a man's world. There are so few good men, you will be a commodity.
> 
> Don't make the male mistake and go for the youngest and hottest, find the best.
> 
> Your wife will find it easy to date with an endless amount of men who want to bed her. For a short while, she will have a great time. She will realize at some point that these men have no real interest in her other than sex.
> 
> Your WW will have a far less likely chance of finding a LTR. Generally speaking, she will have to trade down to get one.
> 
> You will trade up. Just be smart in doing so.


:iagree::iagree:
Yes For me at least this is true.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: She found an apartment about 15 mins away. She will be out by January 1st for sure. In the span of a week she's managed to land a new job and a place to live. Kind of surreal how much can change in six months.
> 
> Now the hard part begins and I start to work on me. There are a ton of improvements I want to make. I feel like in order to become the person I want to be, it is going to be like climbing a steep mountain but I'm going to try my best.
> 
> Even though the WS tried to pull an exit affair on me TWICE and failed, it's going to be hard watching her move on. Just seems so senseless but it's what SHE wanted. As far as I am concerned, I just dumped her before she could dump me.
> 
> Now I can see the regret because she has no one to cling onto. Becareful what you wish for I guess...


BD, how are you doing?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Really!?!? said:


> BD, how are you doing?


Thanks for asking... Such a simple question but I feel like I could write a book on it. Melancholy but optimistic about the future. 

The ex is still on track to move out Jan 1. She's been furniture shopping, etc. In the meantime, we've been playing house for the kids’ sake. They don't know she's moving out though I suspect my oldest whose 7 might have an idea. We were going to finally explain it to them later this week after Christmas. They are the last bad news to break and unfortunately the most difficult. I hope they accept and adjust to the new family dynamic without too much sadness. I'm going to miss not seeing them everyday. That hurts the most.

I've been getting along VERY well with the ex. If it wasn't for the giant elephant in the room, you wouldn't think anything was wrong. The fog has all but dissipated and I can clearly see she is a completely different person then she was in August during D-Day. The best way I can describe her back then was someone who was so self-absorbed in her selfish little fantasy that me and the kids didn't even exist to her. Almost like an extreme form of brainwashing. A coping mechanism so she didn't have to feel the guilt of what she was doing to us...

I really do believe she is very remorseful that she is losing her family. I can see the sadness in her eyes and the holidays have a way of reminding people how important family is. I think she is devastated that she ruined her family and everything she took for granted. She thanks me all the time for how unbelievably supportive I have been during the divorce and the whole transition process. She harbors no anger whatsoever that I broke things off with her and she understandably knows why. She told me she holds out hope that maybe we can reconcile in the future. 

It would be so easy for me to say, "Let's work things out..." In one sentence I could rug sweep the whole thing and that would be the end of it. She would jump at the opportunity and we could move on like nothing ever happened. I just can't bring myself to do it. I read people on this forum begging for advice on how to bring their spouse out of the fog and I pity them. I feel like I deserve better than a serial cheater. I would never feel like a real man knowing she slept with these guys behind my back and I forgave her for it. I'm 35 and I'm not getting any younger. If I want the best chance possible chance to get away from this broken woman then now is the time to do it.

I asked her was it worth it? NOW she believes it wasn't... She never gave much thought to the consequences of her actions because like every cheater she thought I would never find out. So the way she worked it out, I would take care of the real life responsibilities for her and she would get to have her selfish affair behind my back. If things turned out well between them I would be dumped. If they didn't, she could break it off and pretend nothing had ever happened. She gets to cake it and I would never know. The first one with her boyfriend fizzled out quickly. This second one with her boss, I caught her on, she got in pretty deep. Unfortunately, for her she was too stupid to realize she was being used by them. 

So destroyed her family for nothing and I think THAT is the sorrow she feels. It was certainly nowhere to be found doing her six month affair. She didn't care if she was sleeping with guys behind her back because I WASN'T supposed to find out. The fact that I would be upset about it therefore was a nonissue. She could cake eat to her delight and be a bad person because it's fun for her and she enjoys it plain and simple. I just can't be with a person who has that kind of mentality. 

If we got back together she could pretend to be the perfect companion but I know it would just be an act. While there are so many things I do like about her, I've seen her ugly side now and I want no part of it. I think there is a very good chance she could do it again. It would be a constant struggle with her demons not too and I'm not going to live like that.


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## barbados

You are absolutely making the right decision by getting this serial cheating woman out of you life. Stay strong and stay the course !


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## Samus

Are the kids yours?


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## LongWalk

BetrayedDad said:


> She stopped having sex with me 4 months ago... Pretty sure he gave her a lip herpe too though she swears it was "a cut". I haven't touched her since. We've been like room mates for a long time. Since this whole affair started. She said she *"didn't want to lie to herself"*.... Apparently has ZERO problems lying to me.


You've been very clear headed for a very long time. Even if it hurts to end your marriage, you cannot go on, given that your reason will not let your submit to it.

If your stbxw really evolves as a person, you can date her and reconcile. However, you are skeptical that she has learned that much from her experience.

Do you think she is afraid that she will now be damaged goods and thus not find love with a guy who can be trusted, among other things, not to cheat? Have you asked her what she will tell the men she will date in the future about your divorce?

I think this is real conundrum: if the cheater tells the truth, that will reduce their LTR prospects. If they lie, they renew the dishonesty and trickle truth.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> You've been very clear headed for a very long time. Even if it hurts to end your marriage, you cannot go on, given that your reason will not let your submit to it.


I've always been a very logical person even at the expense of my emotions. I just know if I took her back, after what she did to me and our family, I would be resentful forever. I wouldn't even be surprised if I sought a revenge affair because of the built up resentment. I don't want to be that guy. All I have left is my dignity and self-respect. She can never take those things away from me and I'm sure as hell not going to throw them away to be some doormat and cuckold for a serial cheater. 




LongWalk said:


> If your stbxw really evolves as a person, you can date her and reconcile. However, you are skeptical that she has learned that much from her experience.


I just don't believe people with THAT level of selfishness ever evolve. Yes, good people occasionally do bad things but a serial cheater is selfishness personified. She's addicted to the constant attention seeking and validation. Sure she can "pretend" to be a changed person but eventually temptation will rear it's ugly head and afterall what I don't know won't hurt me. Why do I need to deal with that? I know there are other people out there who are honest and have morals because I am one of them. IF I ever took her back, it would be knowing full well that she'll probably cheat on me again. I'd like to think I can do better.




LongWalk said:


> Do you think she is afraid that she will now be damaged goods and thus not find love with a guy who can be trusted, among other things, not to cheat? Have you asked her what she will tell the men she will date in the future about your divorce?
> 
> I think this is real conundrum: if the cheater tells the truth, that will reduce their LTR prospects. If they lie, they renew the dishonesty and trickle truth.


From what I can tell most of the guys she seems to attract are scumbags who quite frankly don't give a crap if she's married let alone if she cheated and is now single. If she actually met a decent guy then yeah, knowing her as well as I do, absolutely she would lie to him. Her lying nature is ingrained in her as a self-defense mechinism because she's afraid of confrontation. 

The question becomes is it my business to set the record straight to this poor bastard? Because I want to know who my kids are around, I'm going to eventually have to meet him. So me personally, I'd certainly like to know if I was dating a past serial cheater. Huge red flag in any decent guy's book.


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## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> She harbors no anger whatsoever that I broke things off with her and she understandably knows why. *She told me she holds out hope that maybe we can reconcile in the future*.


Last month you wrote this :



> She basically gave me the ILYBINILWY line. She said of course she will still always be there for me if I ever needed her and still wants to maybe hang out and be actively involved in my life.


I love these dingbat cheaters. So all over the place.


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## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> I love these dingbat cheaters. So all over the place.


I know what you mean. Told me she, "loved me" yesterday. I didn't comment and she follows up with, "do you love me?" I told her, "I don't love what you did to me and I think about it every single day". Silence after that...

It's very strange the way her mind works. If I professed my undying love for her right now I know she would reciprocate and it would be unicorns and rainbows in her head. Instead, I'm telling her to leave so she puts up this "it's for the best, we probably wouldn't work out" 180 routine which I know is complete crap. I can tell she's desperately waiting around for me to cave in. To be honest, the pre-cheated on BD would have a long time ago. He was such a nice guy and put up with a lot of garbage from her. She wants to be with me NOW (only after being duped) but if she believes I wouldn't reciprocate her affection then she won't even try.

Typical cheater coward mentality. Just pretends like it doesn't bother her for fear of rejection. I hate games. Just tell me what the f*** you want. So what if you get rejected? At least you tried. Go big or go home. 

Not that I would take her back anyway.....


----------



## wilderness

Are you sure you don't want to try and save your marriage, hoss?

No judgments and I'm not telling you what to do, it's just that I feel like there are some unresolved feelings there.


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## LongWalk

You have good insight into the way people think. The latest neurophysiology research shows that women have more connections between the right and left spheres of the brain. This apparently improves the ability to multitask. Keeping the baby and infant safe while darting away from the gathering to capture some protein while all the while remembering how to keep the primary mate in love with her: all of this improved the ability to pass on DNA.

This apparently also make the sort of confused cake-eating rational. And cake-eating is rational from a evolutionary point of view. However, from your evolutionary point of view her attitude is not good enough.

From an evolutionary point of view your ex (a serial cheater) is doing okay. Two kids, that's about as many as the loyal spouse have today.

It is possible that your could reconcile with her and prevent her from cheating by being vigilant, but who would want to experience paranoia over his wife's errant vagina? What a hassle if avoidable. Ironically, if you did reconcile and were the much tougher guy, the more alpha BD, she would love you more and respect you more. But she might also push the boundaries and cheat again.

I can imagine a serial cheater feeling that the high of getting back together with the new improved BS is a real rush. To be utterly dumped and then win him back in a new more masculine form. In three or 4 years, she might want to cheat just to try and reproduce the rush of dumping the OM for the great BH.

It sounds crazy but come on, people are crazy. How else would people get on buses and planes to Atlantic city and Las Vegas to compulsively throw their money away and then after a few years repeat the process?


----------



## vi_bride04

wilderness said:


> Are you sure you don't want to try and save your marriage, hoss?
> 
> No judgments and I'm not telling you what to do, it's just that I feel like there are some unresolved feelings there.


Unresolved feelings don't fix serial cheaters. Especially unresolved feelings on the BS part.


----------



## BetrayedDad

wilderness said:


> Are you sure you don't want to try and save your marriage, hoss?


Yes, I'm sure. She is obviously unable to control herself so there is nothing to save. I'm not going to wait around for her to stab me in the back again.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> It is possible that your could reconcile with her and prevent her from cheating by being vigilant, but who would want to experience paranoia over his wife's errant vagina? What a hassle if avoidable. *Ironically, if you did reconcile and were the much tougher guy, the more alpha BD, she would love you more and respect you more. But she might also push the boundaries and cheat again.*
> I can imagine a serial cheater feeling that the high of getting back together with the new improved BS is a real rush. To be utterly dumped and then win him back in a new more masculine form. In three or 4 years, she might want to cheat just to try and reproduce the rush of dumping the OM for the great BH.
> 
> It sounds crazy but come on, people are crazy. How else would people get on buses and planes to Atlantic city and Las Vegas to compulsively throw their money away and then after a few years repeat the process?


I agree with this. 

And I would add that another wrench in the works is her need for validation from multiple men. Not only would she cheat again, even if BD became more alpha and assertive, but she would need to cheat with multiple men just like she was before. Getting validation from BD plus her two OPs was not enough for her then and it won't be in the future. She has to be the belle of the ball.


----------



## Clay2013

I think if she did it twice it is safe to assume your going to get cheated on again. I would not allow her ever back in my life like that again. It does not mean you can not at least be some sort of a friend. I am not good at those types of connections after being kicked like that. Maybe this is a bad quality but I just think I would rather have better people around me. Makes life so much better. 

Clay


----------



## harrybrown

You have come so far, glad that you are not looking back now.

She is a serial cheater and will always be a cheater. She is like a drug addict, addicted to the cheating. She can not give it up ever. 

Glad you will be getting out there and moving on with your life. Life is too short to put up with cheating behavior.

2014 should be your year. I sure hope so after all you have suffered.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> ...
> The ex is still on track to move out Jan 1. She's been furniture shopping, etc. In the meantime, we've been playing house for the kids’ sake. They don't know she's moving out though I suspect my oldest whose 7 might have an idea. We were going to finally explain it to them later this week after Christmas. They are the last bad news to break and unfortunately the most difficult. I hope they accept and adjust to the new family dynamic without too much sadness. I'm going to miss not seeing them everyday. That hurts the most.


BD, how did the move go? My soon-2bx moved out in November, and it was difficult - especially with the Holidays among us. BUT, hang in there - you will survive and start to enjoy your peace, and appreciate other benefits of being liberated. Not seeing your kids everyday will be hard (and hurt),.... I miss my daughter all the time, even though I get her every couple of days for 2 - 3 days at a time. You will adjust though, so keep your chin up.



BetrayedDad said:


> I've been getting along VERY well with the ex. If it wasn't for the giant elephant in the room, you wouldn't think anything was wrong. The fog has all but dissipated and I can clearly see she is a completely different person then she was in August during D-Day. The best way I can describe her back then was someone who was so self-absorbed in her selfish little fantasy that me and the kids didn't even exist to her. Almost like an extreme form of brainwashing. A coping mechanism so she didn't have to feel the guilt of what she was doing to us...


Getting along right now sounds completely normal for her condition, as her FOG has temporarily lifted. But remember, the fog always returns – you just never know when it will. You were married to this woman, so there will always be some form of connection and affection,…. But is it worth all the unknown, miss-trust, paranoia, betrayal,….. ? Of course not, and I know you already know this. It’s just hard to let the good memories dissipate while you are also trying to move forward with your new life not being married or with her. I’m living that same thing myself right now.

Do you remember back at the end of October when I asked if you if she had a mental illness, emotional trauma, etc,…? You replied,….



BetrayedDad said:


> Actually I have thought that for quite some time. She had a REALLY bad childhood. NOT a justification but just a fact. Abandonment, sexual abuse, attempted suicide, the whole nine yards. She carries around a ton of emotional baggage. Her only defense mechinism (besides lying) is to shut off her feelings and emotions because if she doesn't they come poring out and she cries uncontrollably.
> 
> That's how I think she could be so callious and cruel during the affair. Because she has that ability, fine tuned since childhood. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I could never carry around the amount of guilt and shame she has for so long. And it wasn't even just apathy towards me. She even tuned out my kids feelings.


IMO – don’t under estimate the effects of her sexual abuse, with regards to her behavior, infidelity, emotional numbing, etc,…. These are all typical for many CSA survivors who have not been able to successfully heal from their trauma. 

You will find many CSA survivors who have healed from this abuse, but more than likely these survivors did a lot of successful therapy and work on their healing. The keyword is “successful”. Unfortunately for my Ex, she has no desire or acknowledgment that she needs to work on her CSA trauma. She doesn’t want to open the door to that evil in her childhood, and re-live the terror of her abuse, just to heal from her emotional dysfunctions that she doesn’t believe she has. Unfortunately, statistics show that the majority of survivors have difficulty healing from the effects of CSA trauma,…. (but not all). 

Re-read the posts in your thread from Oct 31st through mid-November. I really think reading Haunted Marriage will help you understand what had “haunted” your marriage for so long. I was shocked at the similarities in the book that mirrored my marriage and explained the behaviors of my Ex. It explains why marital infidelity is highly desired by survivors who “Act Out”, and why sex within the marriage becomes difficult for them. She does love you,… but she’s not “IN LOVE” with you. My Ex said this, and it initially confused and hurt me,… but I learned it means: she loves you like a “parent”, or a caregiver, a friend (ouch), or father of her children,… but not as a lover anymore. 

There will come a time when you get this concept. It may take another month or two, but it’ll happen. It just hit me out of the blue one day,….. even after all the reading and IC I’ve been doing. Reading and IC will help intellectually accept all this,…. But emotionally it takes longer to come to terms with what’s happened. However, it will happen if you stay positive, work on you, and talk to people. 

I hope reading the book will help you move on sooner, and realize – if you or I stayed in our marriages as they were, betrayal would happen to us again. Our Ex’s would stray again, and again, without seeking help and therapy for their issues/trauma. I even caught my wife “dating” while we were still living together. She would put heavy mascara and eyeliner on when she would go on these lunch or breakfast dates,….. WTF? Like I wouldn’t figure it out? I confronted her on it, and she finally confessed. Who does that?




BetrayedDad said:


> I really do believe she is very remorseful that she is losing her family. I can see the sadness in her eyes and the holidays have a way of reminding people how important family is. I think she is devastated that she ruined her family and everything she took for granted. She thanks me all the time for how unbelievably supportive I have been during the divorce and the whole transition process. She harbors no anger whatsoever that I broke things off with her and she understandably knows why. She told me she holds out hope that maybe we can reconcile in the future.


She will be back (so beware),….. there is definitely a reason why the 2 of you married in the first place, so there will always be that “pull”. I don’t know if I told you, but my Ex and I were married,…. Then divorced,….. then re-married and had a child together. I thought we had figured it out the 2nd time around,…. But her illness always re-emerged. The fog always came back,….. and always will for as long as she never successfully heals. Therapy alone will not be enough,…. It has to be successful therapy. 

You’ve heard the saying, “practice makes perfect”? Well that’s not true. Practice makes permanent,….. so perfect practice makes perfect,…… and bad practice makes bad habits,…



BetrayedDad said:


> It would be so easy for me to say, "Let's work things out..." In one sentence I could rug sweep the whole thing and that would be the end of it. She would jump at the opportunity and we could move on like nothing ever happened. I just can't bring myself to do it. I read people on this forum begging for advice on how to bring their spouse out of the fog and I pity them. I feel like I deserve better than a serial cheater. I would never feel like a real man knowing she slept with these guys behind my back and I forgave her for it. I'm 35 and I'm not getting any younger. If I want the best chance possible chance to get away from this broken woman then now is the time to do it.


I know the feeling….. it’s so hard to move on and let go, and you just want things to go back to what they were before the cheating. The reality of it though, is that there is too much damage in your relationship now, and she will most likely cheat on you again unless she changes. What do you think the likelihood of that is?




BetrayedDad said:


> I asked her was it worth it? NOW she believes it wasn't... She never gave much thought to the consequences of her actions because like every cheater she thought I would never find out. So the way she worked it out, I would take care of the real life responsibilities for her and she would get to have her selfish affair behind my back. If things turned out well between them I would be dumped. If they didn't, she could break it off and pretend nothing had ever happened. She gets to cake it and I would never know. The first one with her boyfriend fizzled out quickly. This second one with her boss, I caught her on, she got in pretty deep. Unfortunately, for her she was too stupid to realize she was being used by them.
> 
> So destroyed her family for nothing and I think THAT is the sorrow she feels. It was certainly nowhere to be found doing her six month affair. She didn't care if she was sleeping with guys behind her back because I WASN'T supposed to find out. The fact that I would be upset about it therefore was a nonissue. She could cake eat to her delight and be a bad person because it's fun for her and she enjoys it plain and simple. I just can't be with a person who has that kind of mentality.
> 
> If we got back together she could pretend to be the perfect companion but I know it would just be an act. While there are so many things I do like about her, I've seen her ugly side now and I want no part of it. I think there is a very good chance she could do it again. It would be a constant struggle with her demons not too and I'm not going to live like that.


You got it,…… and you do deserve someone who will love you unconditionally, and only you. 

The serial cheating was caused by a disease, a mental illness,… that your Ex may not know she has. In many ways, I mourn for my Ex, because she has lived with this illness since the age of 4 when her grandfather sexually molested her until she was 9. She has lived with this her entire life other than the first 3 years as a baby. It’s very sad actually,….. Although I get caught up in the heartache, lies, and cheating from our marriage – I sometimes have to remind myself that she is a CSA survivor, and the side effects have impacted our entire family.


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## OldWolf57

Happy New year BD, I hope this one is no where near as bad as the last.
an to help you along, just remember this " she cut you off because he told her too " Does that sound like she love you.
No !! Then she brought him into your house and bed.
For me as a man, that is the greatest form of disrespect and contempt a wife could show for a husband. To do him in your bed, an then sleep in it with you that night.


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## LongWalk

Did she move out on schedule?


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## BetrayedDad

I know some people are curious and I don't have time to write up the details but yes the ex has officially moved out. I promise, in a few days I'll fill everyone in on what happened. This weekend is kind of hectic...


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## manticore

it may not feel like it, but this is s crucial step to a healthy life, if she is willing this will be a good opportunity to work on herself, and you now out of drama and her influence will be able to see what is better for you, work on yourself, and eventually look for a new partner who brings in the realtionship the same respect, effort a priority as you do


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## illwill

Good for you. Always good to see someone learn and move on.


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## BetrayedDad

BetrayedDad said:


> I know some people are curious and I don't have time to write up the details but yes the ex has officially moved out. I promise, in a few days I'll fill everyone in on what happened. This weekend is kind of hectic...


So I helped the ex get moved out. (Probably shouldn't have but I want to stay on good terms for the kids). Aside from her personal items, she took the living room set and the bedroom set. Small price to pay to keep the house, I guess. She was expecting some big production with the kids being upset that she wasn't going to be there. Honestly, they didn't really seem to care. 

During the affair she spent a lot of time out of the house and I think they kids are so used to it, it wasn't a big deal. I can see it really hurt her. When I thought they were just GNO's, I used to tell her all the time how the kids would be crying wondering why mom was not home. She didn't care, she was too busy in fantasyland. Now when she cares and wants everyone to miss her it's too late.

I have a lot to keep me busy with the house. It's not that much more than what I used to do. I think the other thing that bothers her is in her mind she was so convinced the house would fall apart without her. Like she was sooooo indispensable in her mind. Now that she's waking up to the fact that we'll be fine without mommy, I think that irks her too. I guess she's realizing she's as easily replaceable as she thought I was.


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## thummper

Honest to God, these damn girls nights out seemed to have sounded the death knell to many marriages. So many ladies just let loose without the old man around to put a damper on their antics. The alcohol and excitement of being "free" from their restraints seems knock good sense and guilt right out of their heads. Later, they are stuck facing the reality of what they have done. At that point, it often is too late, the damage being irreparable. Why didn't one of their girl friends shake them up and ask, "Do you realize what you're doing?" And remind them that they're NOT single, and there's a loving, trusting husband waiting for them at home. I guess there's a feeling of anonymity, that "he'll" never find out. Trouble is, they usually do, one way or another, and then........


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## harrybrown

So now replace her with a model that does not cheat. Have fun and a great year.


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## BetrayedDad

Other than her obviously being a serial cheater, here's a classic example of why are marriage broke down. I lent the ex some tools so she could fix up her new apartment. I needed them back to fix my toilet. Here is the exchange that unfolds:

Serial Cheater: Do you mind if I just go home tonight and not pick up the kids? I am feeling so crappy right now... i just want to go take a bath and go to bed... If you need the tools I will drop them off...

Betrayeddad: I don't mind at all. Hope you feel better. If you could drop off the tools that would be great.

Serial Cheater: Ok I'll drive all the way to your house to drop off tools... even though I am sick...

What the f***? Am I supposed to have empathy for you now? Like you had any for me during your affairs? If you DON'T want to bring the tools over because you're sick then why don't you just f***ing say so?!? Why do you play these stupid mind games then say you tried to tell me? I'm not a f***ing mind reader and I'm sick and tired of trying to read between the lines. 

Just SAY what you f***ing mean!!! So glad I kicked her a$$ out. I just needed to vent.


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## BashfulB

You can't argue with crazy.


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## PBear

It's your thread, so rant if you like. But I don't see the link between her being too lazy to return the tools to you (and too passive to just tell you) to her cheating on you when you were married. If you don't like her attitude, don't lend her tools. Same as your friends or family. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad

PBear said:


> It's your thread, so rant if you like. But I don't see the link between her being too lazy to return the tools to you (and too passive to just tell you) to her cheating on you when you were married. If you don't like her attitude, don't lend her tools. Same as your friends or family.


The point is, just like many other waywards, she claimed she communicated her dissatisfaction in our marriage. The problem is I don't speak crazy cheater. I speak English. Not that, that's remotely a justification but she never communicated anything coherent to me. If there was anything, it was double talk and innuendo. Funny however, how crystal clear she was though her text messages when she told the OM she wanted to f*** him.


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## LongWalk

One of the most important words in the English language cannot be written on TAM, but it sure brings clarity whether it is a noun, verb, adjective.


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## VFW

BetrayedDad said:


> The point is, just like many other waywards, she claimed she communicated her dissatisfaction in our marriage. The problem is I don't speak crazy cheater. I speak English. Not that, that's remotely a justification but she never communicated anything coherent to me. If there was anything, it was double talk and innuendo. Funny however, how crystal clear she was though her text messages when she told the OM she wanted to f*** him.


This is so true. I hate the you should have known. How about just telling me, you had no problem telling the OM about our problems and what you wanted. People have to be up front and honest with one another. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Anyway, you are on the way to healing, it will take awhile, but I have complete faith and confidence to you.


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## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> Serial Cheater: Ok I'll drive all the way to your house to drop off tools... even though I am sick...
> 
> What the f***? Am I supposed to have empathy for you now? Like you had any for me during your affairs? If you DON'T want to bring the tools over because you're sick then why don't you just f***ing say so?!? Why do you play these stupid mind games then say you tried to tell me? I'm not a f***ing mind reader and I'm sick and tired of trying to read between the lines.
> 
> Just SAY what you f***ing mean!!! So glad I kicked her a$$ out. I just needed to vent.


victim until the very end right? puff


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## weightlifter

BetrayedDad said:


> The point is, just like many other waywards, she claimed she communicated her dissatisfaction in our marriage. The problem is I don't speak crazy cheater. I speak English. Not that, that's remotely a justification but she never communicated anything coherent to me. If there was anything, it was double talk and innuendo. Funny however, how crystal clear she was though her text messages when she told the OM she wanted to f*** him.


I get this one all the time.

Hell mine claims she told me when she was going off the pill to have our first kid. Does anyone here think if she told me in anything resembling a coherent "Im going off the pill because I want to get pregnant" speech I just might remember it? I suspect my second kid was part of a plan too... is 3 missed pills when we were moving. Uh huh. Never be able to prove it tho.

Rewriting history to get what they need, I think it is simply on the X chromosome. Then again I probably never would have said "Im ready for kids" I rather doubt I am alone... by a mile.


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## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Other than her obviously being a serial cheater, here's a classic example of why are marriage broke down. I lent the ex some tools so she could fix up her new apartment. I needed them back to fix my toilet. Here is the exchange that unfolds:
> 
> Serial Cheater: Do you mind if I just go home tonight and not pick up the kids? I am feeling so crappy right now... i just want to go take a bath and go to bed... If you need the tools I will drop them off...
> 
> Betrayeddad: I don't mind at all. Hope you feel better. If you could drop off the tools that would be great.
> 
> Serial Cheater: Ok I'll drive all the way to your house to drop off tools... even though I am sick...
> 
> What the f***? Am I supposed to have empathy for you now? Like you had any for me during your affairs? If you DON'T want to bring the tools over because you're sick then why don't you just f***ing say so?!? Why do you play these stupid mind games then say you tried to tell me? I'm not a f***ing mind reader and I'm sick and tired of trying to read between the lines.
> 
> Just SAY what you f***ing mean!!! So glad I kicked her a$$ out. I just needed to vent.


BD, check this link out:

How to Spot a Narcissist | World of Psychology


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## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> The point is, just like many other waywards, she claimed she communicated her dissatisfaction in our marriage. The problem is I don't speak crazy cheater. I speak English. Not that, that's remotely a justification but she never communicated anything coherent to me. If there was anything, it was double talk and innuendo. Funny however, how crystal clear she was though her text messages when she told the OM she wanted to f*** him.


BD, she may have either spoke her dissatisfaction to you, or just thought it in her head. My EX certainly concealed hers until things came to a head.

Your Ex's behavior seems typical considering her CSA history. CSA Survivors also have a tendancy to have many characteristics of Narcissism (although may not be fully Narcissistic).

From the article I sent you earlier:

_Narcissism, in lay terms, basically means that a person is totally absorbed in self. The extreme narcissist is the center of his own universe. To an extreme narcissist, people are things to be used. It usually starts with a significant emotional wound or a series of them culminating in a major trauma of separation/attachment. No matter how socially skilled an extreme narcissist is, he has a major attachment dysfunction. The extreme narcissist is frozen in childhood. He became emotionally stuck at the time of his major trauma of separation/attachment._ THIS IS TOTALLY MY EX

_In my work with extreme narcissist patients I have found that their emotional age and maturity corresponds to the age they experienced their major trauma. This trauma was devastating to the point it almost killed that person emotionally. The pain never was totally gone and the bleeding was continuous. In order to survive, this child had to construct a protective barrier that insulates him/her from the external world of people. He generalized that all people are harmful and cannot be trusted. _ 

This is my Ex as well. It occured to me after reading this, that I have been married to a person with the maturity and emotions of a 4 - 9 year old. She was molested by her grandfather for 5 years until she was 9, and raped twice in highschool. Also for her - the pain from her abuse never went away, so she creates drama and distractions in her current life to suppress the pain. When the pain re-emerges (usually when she let's her guard down through the "security" of an intimate relationship such as a marriage), they become haunted by these horrific feelings - but rarely associate them to the abuse, but to their partner! How messed up is that!? 

:banghead: 

They then go into their "FOG", Act in or Act Out (ie. serial cheating),.... You said that your Ex was so callous during the affair,.... that's selfish, Narcissistic.

BTW - as many will suggest, don't try to diagnose your Ex, etc,.... and clearly I'm not a therapist or counselor, however there are certain traits and characteristics we can't ignore, when dealing with such irrational behavior from our relationships.

_The protective insulation barrier he constructed is called a false persona. He created a false identity. This identity is not the true person inside. The many types of false personas or identities that an extreme narcissist creates can vary._ 

This explains why many spouses will say, "who are you?,.. I don't even know who you are anymore!" For me, I realized I was married to this false persona. For my Ex, her true identity is this scared little girl, terrified of the abuse and re-living the memories from it. That's why she most likely will never address her CSA Trauma in therapy and heal from it,... it's too scary and painful for her - which I feel bad for her, but don't think that's a license to hurt other people like she has.

_Some narcissists may have the ability to change into a variety of identities according to the situation. The wounded child inside may choose to present a front as a “bad ass” and tough individual. He may look, by appearance, intimidating and scary to the average person. He could also play the “nice guy/person” whom everyone likes. A corporate type version can be one that is diplomatic, proper, and appearing to care but in reality does not. Another very likeable extreme narcissist can be the one that chooses the comedian role. He is the life of the party and has everyone in stitches, making them laugh constantly. Everyone wants to include this person because they are a lot of fun._ 

Again, this is my Ex,... she is a chameleon. She can change personalities for any given situation. Bad Ass, Life of the Party, Victim, etc,... When she's on the phone, her voice will often mimic the person she is speaking to. I saved the voicemails from her the past month or so, and you can hear the different personas she emulates through her tone. I play these messages for my friends and IC, and they are floored at the different "people" the voice sounds like. Along with the classic "ghost mask", there is an accompanying "ghost voice". 

_Try to get close or ask personal questions as to how he is internally doing and feeling and you will find is that he will quickly distract you. They will sidestep the question with another joke, making you suddenly forget what you were asking. Narcissists can be very skilled at dodging and ducking personal questions. If you press them, they will then slot you as “unsafe” and will begin to avoid you and exclude you from their life._ THIS HAPPENED IN MY MARRIAGE

BD, I don't know if any of this will help you or not,.... but IMO - your Ex can never be the wife you want her to be, unless she heals from her CSA. I know my Ex won't,...

The serial cheating won't ever stop, unless they heal. And even then - could you really trust again? I don't think I could,.... it's been too painful. And now that it's been about 2 months since my Ex moved out,.... I am quickly acclimating to my newly found peace, liberation, and freedom.

Yes, I do miss the good times and memories I had with my Ex, and it does continue to hurt - but now I see that those good times were only a part time resident in her, or possibly just part of one of her false personas,... it really doesn't matter - because whatever that was, it's now dead for us.

Hang in there BD, things will get better for you. This too shall pass,....


----------



## BetrayedDad

Really!?!? said:


> BD, I don't know if any of this will help you or not,.... but IMO - your Ex can never be the wife you want her to be, unless she heals from her CSA. I know my Ex won't,...
> 
> The serial cheating won't ever stop, unless they heal. And even then - could you really trust again? I don't think I could,.... it's been too painful. And now that it's been about 2 months since my Ex moved out,.... I am quickly acclimating to my newly found peace, liberation, and freedom.
> 
> Yes, I do miss the good times and memories I had with my Ex, and it does continue to hurt - but now I see that those good times were only a part time resident in her, or possibly just part of one of her false personas,... it really doesn't matter - because whatever that was, it's now dead for us.


First off a big thank you to Really!?!? for being such a great contributor to my thread. I have read everything you have written multiple times and it rings true on so many levels. The similarities between our exs is sort of frightening....

It was our daughter's 5th birthday this past weekend. So I ended up spending that day with my ex and our children. Inevitably a long converation ensues. A little background first. I've been doing well so far with the transition. I actually enjoy the time away from her and her drama. I'm been working out, getting caught up on work and some tv shows I've been following. Fixing up the house, cleaning and just keeping busy. Between that and the kids I got more than enough to occupy my time. 

So we start to talk and the ex has an emotional break down and goes on to tell me what a hot mess she is. Apparently, she sobs uncontrollably DAILY at her apartment. She tells me how she's had a long time to reflect and realizes I wasn't a "bad guy". That I'm actually an awesome person. She will never find someone like me again. She afraid she's going to lose me and someone else will scoop me up. She sees I gave 110% for our family. I was her best friend and she didn't realize it. She misses interacting with me. She was selfish and horrible. She needs serious help. etc. etc. 

I don't really say much during this. I tried to console her because I couldn't help feeling sorry for her. I just said that I was sorry it happened and wish she didn't do what she did. I told her she needed to work on herself like I was and she says she can't work on herself because she's constantly depressed about the whole situation. I think it's hitting her hard how badly she f***ed up. I think it hurts her how fine I am with everything. She's clearly still grieving the loss of the relationship and I'm in the acceptance phase now.

I just don't see how I could possibly ever trust her again. She still chats with her toxic friends. I don't want to give her false hope but I try to be nice so I can maintain a good relationship for the kids. For the purpose of full disclosure, she basically threw herself at me aftewards and I had a weak moment and slept with her. As far as I'm concerned, for me it changes nothing. For her, I think her long term goal is for us to work things out. Honestly, I can say I don't really miss HER so much as I miss the companionship of a woman in the house. I think if I found someone else. A good woman. I would truely be happy. I need to start working towards that goal.


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## harrybrown

I really like the last paragraph of your post.

I am glad you have made it this far and wish you happiness in the future. 

You deserve a pat on the back for surviving this mess and coming out of it in a much better place.


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## happyman64

BD

You are right. She is a hot mess.

She is right. A good woman is going to come by and scoop you up.

The best thing you can do for her is to convince her to fix her issues.

HM


----------



## MrHappyHat

BetrayedDad said:


> Other than her obviously being a serial cheater, here's a classic example of why are marriage broke down. I lent the ex some tools so she could fix up her new apartment. I needed them back to fix my toilet. Here is the exchange that unfolds:
> 
> Serial Cheater: Do you mind if I just go home tonight and not pick up the kids? I am feeling so crappy right now... i just want to go take a bath and go to bed... If you need the tools I will drop them off...
> 
> Betrayeddad: I don't mind at all. Hope you feel better. If you could drop off the tools that would be great.
> 
> Serial Cheater: Ok I'll drive all the way to your house to drop off tools... even though I am sick...
> 
> What the f***? Am I supposed to have empathy for you now? Like you had any for me during your affairs? If you DON'T want to bring the tools over because you're sick then why don't you just f***ing say so?!? Why do you play these stupid mind games then say you tried to tell me? I'm not a f***ing mind reader and I'm sick and tired of trying to read between the lines.
> 
> Just SAY what you f***ing mean!!! So glad I kicked her a$$ out. I just needed to vent.



She wants attention and you're still giving it to her. So she's going to go for as much as she can get.

The "I'll do it even though I'm sick" sounds like a classic martyr narrative.

Some people just need teh drama.


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## weightlifter

Wading thru this one now. What states have 30 day divorces? Didnt know that was even possible.


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## BetrayedDad

Technically it was less than 30 days... I got it done so fast because I didn't waste my time and money going with the lawyer. I filled out ALL the paperwork up front not just the petition. We agreed to the terms and had her sign everything in a one shot deal so she couldn't change her mind later. Submitted it to the court with my filing fee aug 20 and the judge signed it sept 17. Done. Not bad considering I have two kids too. There was no waiting period or anything like that in my state either.


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## WyshIknew

I don't know Betrayed. I could be wrong but I get the underlying impression from your posts that if she could get 'fixed' you may look at some sort of relationship with her in the future.

Nothing concrete but just a feeling I get from your posts.

*Shrugs* however I'm often wrong.


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## BetrayedDad

If I had a magic wand and could "fix" her then yeah I would give her another chance. Fortunately, I have come to the conclusion that like the majority of cheaters out there, she is unfixable. That's why I'll never take her back. She cries to me about how badly she screwed up, how much she regrets everything, how she wants to do right thing etc. However, since she has moved out 30 days ago she has maintained contact with her toxic friends and had the OM sleeping over her apartment multiple times. So trust me, I'm not stupid enough to ever believe she will change or that I could ever trust her. She's still engaging in lying and deceitful behavior. While in a way I still care about her and I'm sure that comes through in my postings, I know I need to find someone else. She will never change and she's a complete and utter lost cause.


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## bandit.45

Glad you see her for what she is... but BD you give her too much space in your head.

What are you doing for yourself?


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## BetrayedDad

You're right i do. Ive been trying to keep busy with the house, kids and occasionally friends. Gets kindly lonely sometimes when no ones around and that's probably what bothers me the most. I haven't signed up for any dating sites yet. I guess I will soon. I'm not sure what else I could be doing? I do miss being in a relationship. Maybe thats my problem. I never used to be codependent but I seemed to have developed a codependency from being in my 12 year relationship and that's why I feel like a have a big hole in my life at the moment.


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## bandit.45

Have you redone the house yet bro?

I'm telling you... getting rid of all remnants of the old life, turning the house into a testosterone fueled man cave is a great way to start afresh. It will give your mind something to do other than thinking about what she is doing. 

Have you taken back up some of your old hobbies?


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## BetrayedDad

I redid my bedroom and I'll be working on other parts as much as I can financially. I made twice as much as her but losing that income does hurt. I used to play drums. Was going to by a drum set and start back up. I have other things I want to do too. It's not that I'm bored or lack hobbies as much as being lonely that bothers me. Again, because I was so used to coming home to someone everyday and now I come home to an empty house sometimes.


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## bandit.45

Get out of the house and get around people when you feel lonely... a sports bar, the mall, the gym.... just get around people.


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## turnera

See if there's a bookoo for your city. You can get amazing deals on local stuff that way and let your kids help you redecorate for record cheap prices. That is how we sold our daughter's drum set, btw.

bookoo - yard sales and classifieds


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## harrybrown

Have one of your good friends set you up on a blind date.

But date several ladies, do not get attached too early. 

And have some fun, you need it.


----------



## weightlifter

Im thinking just a lil new p00n will do OP some tremendous good. Dont go overboard tho.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> You're right i do. Ive been trying to keep busy with the house, kids and occasionally friends. *Gets kindly lonely sometimes when no ones around and that's probably what bothers me the most.* I haven't signed up for any dating sites yet. I guess I will soon. I'm not sure what else I could be doing? I do miss being in a relationship. Maybe thats my problem. I never used to be codependent but *I seemed to have developed a codependency from being in my 12 year relationship* and that's why I feel like a have a big hole in my life at the moment.


Same thing with me. Mine was for a little over 8 years but the codependency did build up. It's hard to all of a sudden have all this time to yourself and not have anything specific to do.


----------



## bandit.45

weightlifter said:


> Im thinking just a lil new p00n will do OP some tremendous good. Dont go overboard tho.


Vag juice and vodka?


----------



## BetrayedDad

weightlifter said:


> Im thinking just a lil new p00n will do OP some tremendous good. Dont go overboard tho.


I've read several postings warning about the danger of over doing it in the dating world. It's probably a silly question but can someone outline why this would be a bad thing. I mean as long as the individuals are under no false pretenses and they are single, willing and eager then.....? Is there some psychological impact or concern of STDs and what not.


----------



## turnera

EVERY BH says they can handle it, they won't get involved, they'll keep it simple...and then many of them come back in 3 months and say they got in over their heads, they're nowhere near ready to date, they really did a number on the new girl in their life, they had to break it off cos they kept triggering...on and on and on.

What I tell people is, if you meet someone, go ahead and go out. But keep it to not seeing each other more than once a week, tops, so you still have time to work on yourself without getting pulled into being 'wanted' by a woman.


----------



## weightlifter

BetrayedDad said:


> I've read several postings warning about the danger of over doing it in the dating world. It's probably a silly question but can someone outline why this would be a bad thing. I mean as long as the individuals are under no false pretenses and they are single, willing and eager then.....? Is there some psychological impact or concern of STDs and what not.


August 24 2015 betrayed dad is having THAT conversation with a woman who ticks all the boxes. Pretty, smart, sassy, good paying job, not a narcissistic lunatic. You someimes slip out during sex cause she is so wet and into it.
Her, ugh i hate this part but i need to know, lets go over our sex histories i need to know who i am going exclusive with. Ill go first.
Her: 6 boyfriends, 1 husband, and 3 one nighters. 2 in college and one a month after the divorce was final.
You: awkward silence, 6 girlfriends 1 wife and 47 one nighters. 2 in college and 45 of them after my divorce but before we went out...

She looks at you, Her eyes change in the way she is looking at you and not in a good way.


----------



## weightlifter

A little new p00n is going to give you some ego repair of unimaginable power.

50 is going to make you questionable.


----------



## just got it 55

weightlifter said:


> Im thinking just a lil new p00n will do OP some tremendous good. Dont go overboard tho.


WL how will he know if he goes overboard

I sure wouldn't 

55


----------



## BetrayedDad

weightlifter said:


> A little new p00n is going to give you some ego repair of unimaginable power.
> 
> 50 is going to make you questionable.


Never thought about that. Point taken. I'm not really that type of person anyway, just was curious. If anything I'm more worried about falling into another steady relationship without having time to work on my issues. Just because I missing being in one though I realize already I'm not sure I'm necessarily ready for one. The hurt is still there somewhat though it does get better a little everyday. I feel like I'm making great progress.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Never thought about that. Point taken. I'm not really that type of person anyway, just was curious. If anything I'm more worried about falling into another steady relationship without having time to work on my issues. Just because I missing being in one though I realize already I'm not sure I'm necessarily ready for one. The hurt is still there somewhat though it does get better a little everyday. I feel like I'm making great progress.


You ARE making great progress!!! Keep up the good work!

Moving forward isn't always a straight line, and you will encounter setbacks and detours along the way. That's life,... but you're doing great!

Funny, we do have many similarities in our Ex's and our own lives..... I'm a drummer too! :bounce:

We probably don't live in the same state, otherwise I'd let you borrower one of my kits,... I have 4 of them.

I miss the companionship of a woman as well,... and I do miss that greatly from my marriage. I really LOVED being married and being in a relationship,... so that's why it hurt so much when her CSA illness infected our lives and gutted my soul. 

I did this twice,... :scratchhead: 

with the same woman,... :crazy: 

it's time for me to be happy "most of the time" in a relationship, and not "when it's convenient for the Ex".

As a man, we have the need/instinct to date, and after our situations, want to get out there and make up for lost ground. However, all my friends, family, and IC tell me I'm not quite ready yet. Honestly, I want to go out and start banging everything out there,.... but I'm not like that, and I don't want to hurt anybody. 

I've been hanging out with a woman friend from work lately, who's also going through a divorce, and we have a great time together and support each other emotionally during these times. Nothing romantic or sexual, but it is nice to have each other to lean on. I think it's healthy for both of us,.... maybe that's something that will help you.

Hang in there BD, you're making great progress!


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> First off a big thank you to Really!?!? for being such a great contributor to my thread. I have read everything you have written multiple times and it rings true on so many levels. The similarities between our exs is sort of frightening....


BD, I'm glad you gained something from my posts,... I'm merely *paying forward* what I've learned through IC, reading, here on TAM, and living in a similar relationship with a CSA survivor. I too read things over and over again,... posts, books, articles, etc,... about this illness and how it affects our relationships, it helps keep me sane. 

Remember, it's impossible for us to make logic out of something that is illogical! When I get down about the loss of my marriage, my friends and family are quick to remind me "it's all part of the illness". I'll even get random texts from my mom, saying "don't forget, it's all part of the illness",.... "it's the illness,..." she's funny, and very supportive.

I had an IC appointment last week, and we were reflecting back on all that's happened to me and my marriage the past 6 months, and 13 years,...... and it just blew us both away at the craziness, the things that have been done, that have been said, etc,.... and I said to my IC, "this is just nuts!!! Can you believe all this that's happened?!" and then I asked, *"am I the one whose nuts!?!?!?"*

My IC laughed,... and then said _"absolutely not - it just seems that way because the *situation* IS crazy, and you've been in a relationship with her illness for 13 years. It just wasn't her reality (whether it be with one of her false personas), but it also WAS YOUR REALITY and your relationship with her and her illness"._ My IC also said that if we weren't divorcing right now, that I would continue to have a relationship with the ups and downs, miss-trust, paranoia, eggshells, anxiety, etc,.... it would never end UNLESS, she conquered her issues and healed from her CSA trauma. I think my Ex has a better chance of winning the Lottery,....




BetrayedDad said:


> It was our daughter's 5th birthday this past weekend. So I ended up spending that day with my ex and our children. Inevitably a long converation ensues,......
> 
> So we start to talk and the ex has an emotional break down and goes on to tell me what a hot mess she is. Apparently, she sobs uncontrollably DAILY at her apartment. She tells me how she's had a long time to reflect and realizes I wasn't a "bad guy". That I'm actually an awesome person. She will never find someone like me again. She afraid she's going to lose me and someone else will scoop me up. She sees I gave 110% for our family. I was her best friend and she didn't realize it. She misses interacting with me. She was selfish and horrible. She needs serious help. etc. etc.


We saw this coming, right? This is the "push and pull",.... she pushes you away, then pulls you back in.

Whatever persona she is right now, is probably the one you fell in love with and wanted to marry. I have no doubt that now she sees that you ARE awesome and have done so much for her,.... so much so, that you were subconsciously the target of all her repressed projection and unresolved issues. That's the classic role that the survivor's spouse becomes,.... and one sucky side affect of that is that the spouse no longer becomes sexually desired as the marriage evolves and intimacy grows. Remember, nobody wants to have sex with "daddy or mommy". 

That's why survivors who act out, can become serial cheaters. People don't just become serial cheaters because they were born that way,.... serial cheating is a F***** up side effect from a traumatic event in one's life. It's sad really,....

Ironically, as the trust builds as your marriage grows,... her coping/defense mechanisms "relax" and she begins to let her guard down. It's when she let's her guard down, is when her repressed trauma re-emerges and all Hell breaks loose.



BetrayedDad said:


> I don't really say much during this. I tried to console her because I couldn't help feeling sorry for her. I just said that I was sorry it happened and wish she didn't do what she did. I told her she needed to work on herself like I was and she says she can't work on herself because she's constantly depressed about the whole situation. I think it's hitting her hard how badly she f***ed up. I think it hurts her how fine I am with everything. She's clearly still grieving the loss of the relationship and I'm in the acceptance phase now.


And there you have it,.... she just said she can't work on herself because she's constantly depressed about the whole situation. I would venture to guess that her CSA trauma is part of the "situation", although she probably won't admit it to you or herself because it is too painful.

How long has it been now since her affairs? 12, 18, 24 months? Her false personas may have rotated now, or the little girl in her has thawed out (un-numbed), and now she is realizing her mistakes, betrayal, etc,.... This happened to me as well, as my Ex did the same thing 18 months after our 1st divorce. She did exactly what your Ex did, said she was sorry, made a huge mistake, didn't mean any dis-respect, was remorseful of her actions, etc,..... we then got married again and had a child, and yes,.... the ghost mask returned on and off throughout our 2nd 10-year marriage.



BetrayedDad said:


> I just don't see how I could possibly ever trust her again. She still chats with her toxic friends. I don't want to give her false hope but I try to be nice so I can maintain a good relationship for the kids. For the purpose of full disclosure, she basically threw herself at me aftewards and I had a weak moment and slept with her. As far as I'm concerned, for me it changes nothing. For her, I think her long term goal is for us to work things out. Honestly, I can say I don't really miss HER so much as I miss the companionship of a woman in the house. I think if I found someone else. A good woman. I would truely be happy. I need to start working towards that goal.


I would agree,.... how can you really trust again. I did after my 1st marriage to my ex,.... and I too got sucked in again emotionally and sexually. However, we have an amazing 7 year old daughter together, that is the light of our lives, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. 

I asked my IC about how long the "push and pull" thing (which includes potential sexual encounters here and there) will last,.... and she said, "most likely for as long as you're both alive, even if both of you re-marry to other people,.... so watch out".

My Ex also still talks to her toxic friends,.... and why wouldn't she? They are her toxic support group,..... and they just so happen to be bitter single mom's,... on the hunt for the next Mr. Money Bags or whatever. They've all been coaching each other on what problems their Ex's had, etc,.... all this drama to validate their cheating and running. 

I think you mentioned in another post, that your Ex's OM has spent the night a few times at her new place,.... that's just evidence that your Ex has no clue on how to heal herself. She's looking for a cure by having companionship, when she really needs to work on her trauma,.... that most likely won't happen. I caution to say this, but the majority of CSA survivors tyipcally never take on CSA trauma therapy, because it is so painful.

I have spoken to a few CSA survivors who have successfuly dealt with their issues, and are doing great now. And they have been pretty defensive in stating that it IS possible to heal, because they have. And I believe that is true,.... but it takes a special strength, courage, and commitment for that to happen. 

IMO - my Ex does not have that strength our courage. And she doesn't know the meaning of Commitment - she skipped that day in class apparently.

We've read the books "Courage to Heal", "Allies in Healing", "Haunted Marriage",.... and they greatly helped me to understand all this craziness in our relationship,.... but it only pissed her off. 

Instead, she move out and got her own place, so she could start F****** other guys whenever she wanted to. She even started openly dating while she was still living in our house together. Once she did that, I demanded that she get out. 

I even told her family what she was doing,.... and all but a few of them said, "we'll just keep praying you", and "she told us you were not emotionally available for her", and "all you do is work to make money and pay the bills", and "you never let her cook, clean, or do laundry",.... well excuse the F*** out of me, our family kinda needs to eat,... to uh, *live* - and there's this thing called "money" that we need to pay this other thing called "bills",.... Somebody had to be the grown up on our family.

:soapbox:

Crap,... I think I'm hi-jacking your thread.

time to hit some golf balls,.... have a great weekend BD!!!


----------



## manticore

BetrayedDad said:


> However, since she has moved out 30 days ago she has maintained contact with her toxic friends and had the OM sleeping over her apartment multiple times.


This is so sick.

so in the end she choose to be his mistrees. Not even a dime of selfrespect even after she found he was just using her for sex.

did you confronted her about it? (not that really matters at this point but if she is sobbing of how bad she screwed up and she keep seeing the OM is a hypocrecy)

have you informed OMW about this encounters?, well, I know is not your place (or obligation) to do it anymore, I guess I kind of feel bad for her, but in the end is her resposability to keep an eye in her cheating husband


----------



## LongWalk

BetrayedDad said:


> If I had a magic wand and could "fix" her then yeah I would give her another chance. Fortunately, I have come to the conclusion that like the majority of cheaters out there, she is unfixable. That's why I'll never take her back. She cries to me about how badly she screwed up, how much she regrets everything, how she wants to do right thing etc. However, since she has moved out 30 days ago she has maintained contact with her toxic friends and had the OM sleeping over her apartment multiple times. So trust me, I'm not stupid enough to ever believe she will change or that I could ever trust her. She's still engaging in lying and deceitful behavior. While in a way I still care about her and I'm sure that comes through in my postings, I know I need to find someone else. She will never change and she's a complete and utter lost cause.


Your realism is good for you, your kids and even her. When she weeps and lets it all out, you can tell her that you would have considered R if she had gotten her shxt together, but you can see that she is not capable, nor even really trying.


----------



## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> This is so sick.
> 
> so in the end she choose to be his mistrees. Not even a dime of selfrespect even after she found he was just using her for sex.


The whole point of her moving out, the way I pitched it at least, was for her to work on herself and become a better person. She has utterly failed in that regard. All her old habits have come back with a vengeance and it just proves to me I was right to dump her. She's never going to do what it takes to change and I can't trust her at all. Good riddens. I'm focusing all my energy into replacing her now. She's just a waste.



manticore said:


> did you confronted her about it? (not that really matters at this point but if she is sobbing of how bad she screwed up and she keep seeing the OM is a hypocrisy)


I confronted her in the sense of basically saying to her, "What the f*** are you doing?" I'm not married to her so I really have no business objecting to what she does on her personal time as long as she doesn't bring that trash around my kids. 

She said she knew it was dumb to let him stay over and but he kept showing up and she freaked when he asked for a key. Basically he tried to move himself in. OM and OMW haven't filed for divorce yet but he hasn't been allowed back in the house. So now he was trying to use my ex for a place to stay... Best part was OM recommended they keep their relationship secret LOL. Gee wonder why he would suggest that? The Ex and OM have since "broken up" whatever that means. (I'm sure it's temporary). Ex got wind from a former coworker that OM was flirting with some 23 yr old at work (one of her former toxic friends) and even bought her tires while OM was staying with the Ex. Ex was livid to say the least. 

Ex has also been going out with some 24 yr old (mind you she's 39) lately so that's her new distraction. She CLAIMS they are just friends but acknowledges he's already tried to put the moves on her and more than likely he's just looking to pump and dump her. But she still looks forward to their "meet-ups" and even admits she kind of likes him. Even though she realizes what 20 something would date someone old enough to be his mom with baggage? Really doesn't take much with her. Say some nice things, pretend to care and her panties are all wet in no time. Pretty pathetic...



manticore said:


> have you informed OMW about this encounters?, well, I know is not your place (or obligation) to do it anymore, I guess I kind of feel bad for her, but in the end is her resposability to keep an eye in her cheating husband


I haven't spoken to her since November. I heard OM had dinner with OMW not long after so I'm pretty sure OMW had no idea. I debated this repeatedly whether I should tell her but I came to the same conclusion as you. I can't keep tabs on her man forever and she knows full well already he's a lying cheat. So at this point it's on her. She's already busted him three times on her own since I exposed. If she still want to take him back then she's a fool. Plus, it makes the ex miserable that they are still together so why ruin that? Ex can enjoy the feeling of being plan b like she tried to make me out to be.


----------



## tom67

Wow
That's sad and yes you did the right thing.
Go out and start mingling with the other sex now.
You deserve it my man.


----------



## harrybrown

Sounds like it is time to step up the 180 and find someone new.
She is really a mess. 

Wishing you happiness finding someone new, maybe there is some wonderful young lady that will not cheat on you and love you the way you deserve. 

Time for you to take care of you(and the kids)


----------



## BetrayedDad

harrybrown said:


> Sounds like it is time to step up the 180 and find someone new.
> She is really a mess.
> 
> Wishing you happiness finding someone new, maybe there is some wonderful young lady that will not cheat on you and love you the way you deserve.
> 
> Time for you to take care of you(and the kids)


Don't you worry. It's been stepped up. She keeps asking me why I'm being cold to her. I just deflect the question. I'm doing my best impression of Mr. Spock whenever we interact. I just really don't want to hear about her drama anymore. It's all self-inflicted and I'm sorry me and the kids have to deal with her crap. 

I'm still working on me. I will eventually look for someone new but I'm not quite ready yet. All I know for certain is I'm 100% done with her. The rest we'll have to see what the fates have in store for me. Hopefully, I've paid my dues in the psycho b!tch department.


----------



## RyanBingham

BetrayedDad said:


> Don't you worry. It's been stepped up. She keeps asking me why I'm being cold to her. I just deflect the question. I'm doing my best impression of Mr. Spock whenever we interact. I just really don't want to hear about her drama anymore. It's all self-inflicted and I'm sorry me and the kids have to deal with her crap.
> 
> I'm still working on me. I will eventually look for someone new but I'm not quite ready yet. All I know for certain is I'm 100% done with her. The rest we'll have to see what the fates have in store for me. Hopefully, I've paid my dues in the psycho b!tch department.


Yeah, sounds like you can focus on self for a bit while you go through the PTSD before finding someone. Any hobbies while keeping your head straight? Kids are important, but shouldn't be your only focus.


----------



## manticore

you know man, something I always liked about you is that you knew the path you had to take even before coming here (you were already divorcing/divorced).

You just needed and little of reinforcement from a third party, but in the core you were already doing what it was necessary to move forward doing the best for you.
Is sad to see other cases where you know their wives will cheat again on their bs once the relationship enters in the comfort zone again.

you will be alright, but I also think you need to date and that will also help you to put that last nail in your old relationship


----------



## illwill

BetrayedDad said:


> Never thought about that. Point taken. I'm not really that type of person anyway, just was curious. If anything I'm more worried about falling into another steady relationship without having time to work on my issues. Just because I missing being in one though I realize already I'm not sure I'm necessarily ready for one. The hurt is still there somewhat though it does get better a little everyday. I feel like I'm making great progress.


Very responsible.


----------



## illwill

manticore said:


> you know man, something i always liked about you is that you knew the path you had to take even before coming here (you were already divorcing/divorced).
> 
> You just needed and little of reinforcement from a third party, but in the core you were already doing what it was necessary to move forward doing the best for you.
> Is sad to see other cases where you know their wives will cheat again on their bs once the relationship enters in the comfort zone again.
> 
> You will be alright, but i also think you need to date and that will also help you to put that last nail in your old relationship


this is good advice.


----------



## brokeneric

Good riddance. Keep up the good work. Take more interest in horticulture


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> If I had a magic wand and could "fix" her then yeah I would give her another chance. Fortunately, I have come to the conclusion that like the majority of cheaters out there, she is unfixable. That's why I'll never take her back. She cries to me about how badly she screwed up, how much she regrets everything, how she wants to do right thing etc. However, since she has moved out 30 days ago she has maintained contact with her toxic friends *and had the OM sleeping over her apartment multiple times*. So trust me, I'm not stupid enough to ever believe she will change or that I could ever trust her. She's still engaging in lying and deceitful behavior. While in a way I still care about her and I'm sure that comes through in my postings, I know I need to find someone else. She will never change and she's a complete and utter lost cause.


How do you deal with that? Does it still bother you?


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> How do you deal with that? Does it still bother you?


Truthfully, it does bother me. She told me for months the last time she talked to him was Oct. 12th. And the last thing you want to see when you pick your kids up from their mom's apartment is cum stains on the bedspread. Yeah... That happened. But I divorced her so I really can't object can I? It's what I wanted. So she can go screw whoever she wants now and technically so can I. And when I'm ready I will have other relationships too. I have accepted that, though it would be nice if she wasn't such a lying piece of trash.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> Truthfully, it does bother me. She told me for months the last time she talked to him was Oct. 12th. And the last thing you want to see when you pick your kids up from their mom's apartment is cum stains on the bedspread. Yeah... That happened. But I divorced her so I really can't object can I? It's what I wanted. So she can go screw whoever she wants now and technically so can I. And when I'm ready I will have other relationships too. I have accepted that, though it would be nice if she wasn't such a lying piece of trash.


My WW tries to hide it and down right denies it even when I know he's been there. Not sure what's worse reality or my imagination running wild.


----------



## jim123

Don't push guys, it will come. Try to do volunteer work or get involved in something. You both will be fine. It is a man's world.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm still working on me. I will eventually look for someone new but I'm not quite ready yet. All I know for certain is I'm 100% done with her. The rest we'll have to see what the fates have in store for me. Hopefully, I've paid my dues in the psycho b!tch department.


Cheers to that! :smthumbup:


----------



## Chaparral

BetrayedDad said:


> Truthfully, it does bother me. She told me for months the last time she talked to him was Oct. 12th. And the last thing you want to see when you pick your kids up from their mom's apartment is cum stains on the bedspread. Yeah... That happened. But I divorced her so I really can't object can I? It's what I wanted. So she can go screw whoever she wants now and technically so can I. And when I'm ready I will have other relationships too. I have accepted that, though it would be nice if she wasn't such a lying piece of trash.


Avoid going in her house, especially the bedroom. If she asks why, tell her.


----------



## brokeneric

Start dating. Nothing like sex to heal you.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Update: I just wanted to post an update since it's been awhile and I felt like venting.

A few days after I posted what was going on with the EX back in Feb., the OMW emailed me to see if there had been any contact between them. I guess OM went crawling back after my ex kicked him out. Well.... she was completely clueless as usual so I got to expose her POS husband again about his recent activities. She thanked me again repeatedly and told me she was just about to take him back. I'm hoping she learned her lesson but my gut tells me probably not. In any event, she's not my problem anymore.

Ex has been "dating" (which as far as I can tell consists of a weekly booty call at her place) with the 25 yr old. He's obviously some type of distraction for her so she's not alone. I remind her she's just being used for sex and I can see she gets upset hearing it because she knows it’s true but the bottom line the accurate story is they use each other. I flat out told her the ONLY reason he hangs out with her and tells her nice things is so he can get laid and her response was, "So? All guys are like that…" It's so sad that's her mentality.

Since she has been kicked out I have pulled a 180 to the extend I can with her. Every time she comes to my house to pick up the kids she stinks of desperation. She has tried 3-4 times to try to get me to consider reconciliation. She tells me she, "wants her family back". She is, "almost 40, divorced, struggling financially, barely sees her kids and has nothing to show for herself". It was "the worst choice she ever made", that the relationship prior to the affair "was fixable" and she clearly realizes now the relationship with the OM was "a pure fantasy". 

The best part is she tells me she, "can't stand the thought of me being with someone else." Flabbergasted, I'm just like, "but you're screwing another guy right now so how can you have the nerve to be bothered if I'm with someone else?" No response... the hypocrisy from her is never ending. I just tell her I'm hurting to but I'm trying to heal and move on with my life. That I "just want to find someone who I can spend my life with and be happy." And obviously, "we're not going to be together." Upon hearing that I could see her heart sink. Then at the end of the convo she says, "I probably wouldn't take me back either" LOL. Probably the first truthful thing I've ever heard her say! She's still an attractive girl too and I do still care to some degree which is why the whole thing just sucks.

As for me, I'm working on setting up my online profile now. Going to do the online dating thing and see what happens. Hopefully, it pans out. I was talking to a few girls I had met recently and both of them turned out to be married. But I got the whole sob story on how crappy and “complicated” their relationships were. The last one even seemed mad that I found out since she didn't mention it beforehand nor did she have her wedding ring on. WTF?!? Of course, that pretty much killed it for me since the whole affair thing left a very bad taste in my mouth for cheaters. I apparently have an uncanny ability to attract bored housewives. Seems like there are a ton of them out there ready to flirt with any guy. At least with online dating it's safe to assume that most will be single.


----------



## verpin zal

Nice update.

[ The best part is she tells me she, "can't stand the thought of me being with someone else." ]

Well that attitude right there happens to be a universal ass-clownery, absolutely gender-free. Goes hand in hand with ripping your heart out and conveying some wishes about "remaining friends" and such.


----------



## Forest

Glad to see you showed both the cheaters the consequences of their choices/behavior. Also glad you allowed us to learn, too.

They now know about the bull and the horns.


----------



## Dyokemm

Your WW is finally starting to really see how she self-destructed everything good in her life, and she is also seeing in your words and actions that she will never get it back.

She will be emotionally devastated when you finally do start seeing some one else.

Expect that her downward spiral will really accelerate at that point.

Make sure it does not impact your children to any great extent. Be sure to be ready for it and get them counseling at the first signs her meltdown is really hurting them.


----------



## LongWalk

Betrayed Dad,

Your thread has been an incredible journey for many of us. Do you feel that you have written a novel?

I don't remember if you ever explained how you found out what she was up to so well. I always assumed that at some point you cracked her phone and had access to both her messaging and email.

You knew for example that she met OM to have sex in his car in the parking lot before eating dinner with you and the kids.

These sources of information must have been so welcome and yet didn't you reach a point where you felt that the news you gathered was always going to be bad? The 25-year-old is just the latest.

When you got her to confess to the 2011 ONS, you had already reached the point of emptiness. You do feel better than that today, don't you?

I remember also, your "confession" that you were having sex with her after Dday and you even described the psychological aspects of it. That, I presume, was difficult to share because you knew there would be a lot of flack. However, I think it was important because it may have allowed you to get through a difficult time. In the end, the sex did not change your decision to end things. This is an important lesson to anyone who reads your thread for inspiration.

Getting out with minimal economic damage was brilliant and lucky.

I understand how you feel sorry for your ex. She is broken and does not have the strength to fix herself. Your role as savior needs to be limited to what is in the interests of your children. Don't you think your ability to move on and date will be delayed as long as you entertain her outpourings of sorrow and regret. As for her being hypocritically jealous of other women, that his an expression of co-dependent affection. But mere words mean little. She ought to be celibate if she is sad at the thought of you moving on, instead she is distracting herself with young strange. She must feel like shxt when leaves her after emptying his gonads.

You are worried that she is going to go down the tubes. That is a legitimate concern but don't you fear that you have to brace yourself for her to end up in destructive relationships and depression?


----------



## user_zero

BetrayedDad said:


> ....
> Ex has been "dating" (which as far as I can tell consists of a weekly booty call at her place) with the 25 yr old. He's obviously some type of distraction for her so she's not alone. I remind her she's just being used for sex and I can see she gets upset hearing it because she knows it’s true but the bottom line the accurate story is they use each other. I flat out told her the ONLY reason he hangs out with her and tells her nice things is so he can get laid and her response was, "*So? All guys are like that…*" It's so sad that's her mentality.
> 
> Since she has been kicked out I have pulled a 180 to the extend I can with her. Every time she comes to my house to pick up the kids she stinks of desperation. She has tried 3-4 times to try to get me to consider reconciliation. She tells me she, "*wants her family back*". She is, "*almost 40, divorced, struggling financially, barely sees her kids and has nothing to show for herself*". It was "*the worst choice she ever made*", that the relationship prior to the affair "*was fixable*" and she clearly realizes now the relationship with the OM was "*a pure fantasy*".
> 
> The best part is she tells me she, "can't stand the thought of me being with someone else." Flabbergasted, I'm just like, "but you're screwing another guy right now so how can you have the nerve to be bothered if I'm with someone else?" No response... the hypocrisy from her is never ending. I just tell her I'm hurting to but I'm trying to heal and move on with my life. That I "just want to find someone who I can spend my life with and be happy." And obviously, "we're not going to be together." Upon hearing that I could see her heart sink. Then at the end of the convo she says, "*I probably wouldn't take me back either*" LOL. Probably the first truthful thing I've ever heard her say! She's still an attractive girl too and I do still care to some degree which is why the whole thing just sucks.
> 
> ....


"*I probably wouldn't take me back either*" : this is a way to try to make you feel guilt for not reconciling with her, to make you sympathize with her. don't fall into this trap.

the bold part shows how messed up she is in the head. she isn't remorseful. she didn't go to IC to understand why she made the choice to cheat, why she can't see relationships beyond sex and material needs. she says those things because she hit the rock bottom and you seem to be an accessible ladder worth to try. after all it worked before. I know this is the mother of your children but it's obvious you can't have a healthy relationship with her at least in her current state of mind. you deserve better than that, actually a lot better than that. focus on yourself, on your kids, on your happiness. keep on moving on. you're almost there.

and as for 'dating'. I think it would be better to ask friends and family that if they know somebody available they introduce you two. it would be a lot safer than online dating for people who don't wanna screw other people's relationships, even unintentionally.

good luck.


----------



## BWBill

_I flat out told her the ONLY reason he hangs out with her and tells her nice things is so he can get laid _

You should stop this.

You are still giving her a shoulder to cry on. Even if you tell her what she's doing is stupid she is still getting some emotional needs met and she will keep coming back. Keep conversations to the topics of kids and divorce. 

When she says that what she did was stupid she is still thinking about herself. She's not relationship material (for anyone) until her main concern is the pain she caused you.


----------



## warlock07

> I flat out told her the ONLY reason he hangs out with her and tells her nice things is so he can get laid and her response was, "So? All guys are like that…"


why do you feel the need to tell her this? she knows and she is fine with it. Some women enjoy casual sex. She is enjoying this new FWB relationship, not sure why you keep engaging her?



> The best part is she tells me she, "can't stand the thought of me being with someone else."


Sounds like she was mocking you here


----------



## DTO

Dyokemm said:


> She will be emotionally devastated when you finally do start seeing some one else.


Not necessarily. I don't doubt she is regretting that the OP has pulled away and moved forward on his own. But that doesn't mean a strong-enough emotional connection remains to generate that feeling. 

I didn't read the whole thread, but I did see where she had the OM moved in with her at one point. That doesn't sound like someone still emotionally invested in the OM. It seems like she is waking up to the practical difficulties of someone in her situation (and doesn't particularly like being alone).

IMO she seems mostly about her personal satisfaction and not the pain she has inflicted on others. The OP needs to be aware that this focus on her personal outcome might impact how she behaves during the divorce. He needs to keep his eyes open and tenaciously protect his rights.

But, and to the original question posed, the OP's attorney is absolutely correct that he needs to be civil during the process. You don't want to look bad in front of a judge or other party during the divorce. There are attorneys who will indulge pissed-off litigants by being unnecessarily combative (and running up fees in the process). Also, there is the chance that the OP hurts himself in a more direct manner.

Suppose, for instance, the OP had (or does, in the future) out his wife and her boss to their HR department. HR decides she needs to be fired. Later, OP's ex-wife comes back to request higher support because she can't find a job as good as the one from which she was fired. This is a potential scenario posed by my attorney; I'm not just making something up.


----------



## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> I flat out told her the ONLY reason he hangs out with her and tells her nice things is so he can get laid and her response was, "So? All guys are like that…"


...."I wasn't like that."


----------



## bryanp

She is trying to get you back while living with the OM...I think this says it all.


----------



## jim123

Keep moving forward. She is a lost cause as she is unwilling to work on herself. She has made no attempt to change and is actually getting worse.

Do some charity stuff or things with your kids. You will find someone. Good men are very rare.


----------



## Forest

BetrayedDad said:


> I can't believe how SELFISH she is. I feel disgusted, humiliated, embarrassed, ashamed, betrayed, used, angry, and I feel sad for my children. She just threw me and the kids away because we were an inconvenience to her. I was married to a slvt with no conscious. Just tell her you care about her and she drops her panties. It's literally that easy. I can't believe how stupid she is. Both guys used her, then dumped her. THAT'S what she ruined our family for...






BetrayedDad said:


> She's CONVINCED herself that I has horrible to her. LIE. That I never cared about her. LIE. That she was this amazing wife and mom. LIE. That our marriage was in the gutter. LIE. It wasn't perfect but it was FAR from being what she's make it out to be in her twisted head. If it was in the gutter it was because she threw it there. More pathetic self rationalization so she can look herself in the mirror in the morning. I'm SUCH an awful perosn yet A) she could of left anytime she wanted too and B) now she wants to work it out. I don't know folks but how bad could I be if she was willing to keep me around as plan B?


Since I'm pretty new here, I spent a couple days going over your saga. I pulled out these two gems from pg 55-56 because I feel they have such broad appeal.

I'd like to know how many men here feel that this hits pretty close to home? I'd have to say my situation is not as dire and dramatic, but the feelings are still there. I'm also reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" right now, which also hits close to home in many areas.

Also, how are the kids doing? Do you think mom is going to be a tragic figure for them? I firmly believe you have what it takes to see them thru all this, and keep them happy and thriving.


----------



## BetrayedDad

A lot of you are making some really good points (no surprise there). I just thought I'd respond to some of them.



Dyokemm said:


> She will be emotionally devastated when you finally do start seeing some one else.
> 
> Expect that her downward spiral will really accelerate at that point.


I think she will be too but I don't think it will be because she lost ME. I think it will be for selfish reasons. After all, she was clearly okay with that when she decided to check out of our relationship. I think it will be more because she gave up her comfy setup with me to be with the OM only to get burned by him in the long run. Had that relationship panned out then I doubt she'd give two sh!ts. I also think the thought of her being "replaced" by a girlfriend getting all the perks she took for granted also will bother her ego to no end.




user_zero said:


> she didn't go to IC to understand why she made the choice to cheat, why she can't see relationships beyond sex and material needs. she says those things because she hit the rock bottom and you seem to be an accessible ladder worth to try. after all it worked before.


You're right. She only went to IC because I told her too. She was not doing it for herself. She was doing it for me to try to win me back. I think she knows she's broken but for whatever reason she lacks the will to motivate herself to get some help and address why. Until she does BWBill is right. She shouldn't be in any type of relationship with me or otherwise. Unfortunately she can't be alone (another one of her issues). 




BWBill said:


> When she says that what she did was stupid she is still thinking about herself. She's not relationship material (for anyone) until her main concern is the pain she caused you.


You're 100% right about that. When she says she was stupid, what she REALLY means is "I was stupid to believe OM" not "I was stupid for hurting BD". Her heart was broken when OM turned out to be a piece of trash. I know this for a fact. It certainly wasn't breaking when I was getting tossed under the bus.




bryanp said:


> She was trying to get you back while living with the OM...I think this says it all.


It does, doesn't it? Never willing to put it all on the table. Always a plan B in place. Even this last time, she wants, "her family back" but she's got her little fvck buddy on the side in case I say no. What she seems to never be able to understand is, I say no because she has a little fvck buddy on the side. That she simply refuses to be a selfless person. Instead, she's always working an angle to get the best possible outcome for herself.




Forest said:


> Also, how are the kids doing? Do you think mom is going to be a tragic figure for them? I firmly believe you have what it takes to see them thru all this, and keep them happy and thriving.


The ex is already a tragic figure now. The kids will pick up on this eventually. They are fine now for the most part. Adjusting to the new situation. My daughter takes it especially hard but they manage. Eventually they will know the truth and I wonder sometimes how they will react. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it I suppose.


----------



## sidney2718

verpin zal said:


> Nice update.
> 
> [ The best part is she tells me she, "can't stand the thought of me being with someone else." ]
> 
> Well that attitude right there happens to be a universal ass-clownery, absolutely gender-free. Goes hand in hand with ripping your heart out and conveying some wishes about "remaining friends" and such.


Yeah. But I think it stems from the fact that THEY know they are not in anything like a serious relationship. But they worry that WE might be.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> Betrayed Dad,
> 
> Your thread has been an incredible journey for many of us. Do you feel that you have written a novel?


I feel it's been VERY therapeutic for me to put my thoughts and feelings out there, even anonymously. To be able to use TAM as an outlet and be validated has gone a long way in helping me heal. 




LongWalk said:


> I don't remember if you ever explained how you found out what she was up to so well. I always assumed that at some point you cracked her phone and had access to both her messaging and email.
> 
> You knew for example that she met OM to have sex in his car in the parking lot before eating dinner with you and the kids.


I never did say how I knew. I guess there's no reason to keep it a secret anymore. In the spirit of "How I Met Your Mother" ending, I will tell everyone now and my kids when they are older "How I Busted Your Mother".

The ex had a newer IPhone and an old one kicking around that we upgraded from a while back. I knew most of her toxic friends (and as it turned out luckily the OM as well) had iPhones too. I would see her sending iMessages all day long. So I set up her apple id on the old iPhone so that every time an iMessage was send to her, it also went to the old iPhone as well. I caught her immediately and after that I was able to read the cheating in real time for months after. I knew every attempt at R was false before she opened her mouth. Plus I could track her whereabouts with the "Find my iPhone" feature also. To this day she still has no idea. She was never technology savvy even with the OM helping her cover her tracks. At one point, they were convinced I had them bugged lol. 



LongWalk said:


> These sources of information must have been so welcome and yet didn't you reach a point where you felt that the news you gathered was always going to be bad? The 25-year-old is just the latest..


I made a joke about that several times. She would tell me ALL these nice things I wanted to hear then I would check the phone and bam lies. EVERY... SINGLE... TIME... The sad part is I checked that thing 100's of times in the months leading to me booting her out and never once was there a single nice thing about me on there. NOT ONCE. No "I love BD", no "I'm sorry I hurt him", no "He's been supportive of me despite what I did", nothing...




LongWalk said:


> When you got her to confess to the 2011 ONS, you had already reached the point of emptiness. You do feel better than that today, don't you?


Yes, I do. It stopped being about the OM and really because about HER. SHE was the demon. SHE would of cheated on me with ANY POS that came along. That was the moment she got a free upgrade to serial cheater in my mind. I remember jumping on TAM and venting while she was in the other room sobbing uncontrollably about me finding out. I was just not surprised at anything she was capable of anymore at that point. 




LongWalk said:


> I remember also, your "confession" that you were having sex with her after Dday and you even described the psychological aspects of it. That, I presume, was difficult to share because you knew there would be a lot of flack. However, I think it was important because it may have allowed you to get through a difficult time. In the end, the sex did not change your decision to end things. This is an important lesson to anyone who reads your thread for inspiration.


In a weird, way it did help me. Being cheated on is very emasculating. I needed to feel desired even though deep down I knew she was just trying to win me back for selfish reasons. That's why it didn't change my decision. I knew where her heart was and it wasn't with me.




LongWalk said:


> Getting out with minimal economic damage was brilliant and lucky.


Ironically, the stupidity that caused her to buy into the POSOM's garbage is the SAME stupidity that got me a kick a$$ divorce. I doubt I'd be so lucky with anyone else.



LongWalk said:


> I understand how you feel sorry for your ex. She is broken and does not have the strength to fix herself. Your role as savior needs to be limited to what is in the interests of your children. Don't you think your ability to move on and date will be delayed as long as you entertain her outpourings of sorrow and regret. As for her being hypocritically jealous of other women, that his an expression of co-dependent affection. But mere words mean little. She ought to be celibate if she is sad at the thought of you moving on, instead she is distracting herself with young strange. She must feel like shxt when leaves her after emptying his gonads.
> 
> You are worried that she is going to go down the tubes. That is a legitimate concern but don't you fear that you have to brace yourself for her to end up in destructive relationships and depression?


I don't disagree with you. My concern is only for the type of mother my kids are going to have. That's why I wish she would fix herself. I don't what their mom to be a wh0re because it's my kids mom. At the same time, I really can't do much about it. She tells me that, "my way of living life isn't the only way and she can follow her own path." I guess that's true but I SEE where her path is headed and it's not going to end well for her. I'm sorry my kids have to grow up around that. That's why I continue to offer my two cents when she asks. In the hope that she wakes up and starts acting like a person with some self-respect.


----------



## harrybrown

You need to start dating someone new soon.

The 180 is helping, but your ex is still too much in your life. 

Hopefully when you start dating, your ex will move on. It is good to not introduce the kids to every date, and to introduce your girlfriend after you have dated for some time. 

Any friends or family that can set you up on a blind date? Or try volunteer work, perhaps you may meet a wonderful lady there. Or try your church, maybe they have a singles group for your age.

Wishing you the best and in a hurry. You deserve some happiness and not having your ex with all her drama around you. Your ex is toxic.


----------



## tom67

harrybrown said:


> You need to start dating someone new soon.
> 
> The 180 is helping, but your ex is still too much in your life.
> 
> Hopefully when you start dating, your ex will move on. It is good to not introduce the kids to every date, and to introduce your girlfriend after you have dated for some time.
> 
> Any friends or family that can set you up on a blind date? Or try volunteer work, perhaps you may meet a wonderful lady there. Or try your church, maybe they have a singles group for your age.
> 
> Wishing you the best and in a hurry. You deserve some happiness and not having your ex with all her drama around you. Your ex is toxic.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Go get some.
And yes preferably not married chicks.


----------



## Dyokemm

"But that doesn't mean a strong-enough emotional connection remains to generate that feeling."

DTO,

She will spiral because she feels sorrow and loss for herself, NOT because she really misses BD.

In fact, BD addressed this exact point in one of his posts/responses. I agree with him 100%...her sorrow will not be for anyone but herself truly.


----------



## LongWalk

Thanks for clearing up the iPhone mystery. I guessed it was something like that. It was a great but very fragile source of intelligence. She could have dropped her phone or broken it and you would suddenly have been blind.

Think how much money you saved not buying a VAR. Take that money and treat yourself to something.

The fact that she did not wise up is interesting. She and OM were stupid. But there was more to it. Your ex was so co-dependent on you that she accepted the idea that you could read her mind. That's how close you were. That she never said anything good about you was partly a function of her lack of empathy, but again she was so close to you that you were like a part of her. But a numb part. When she kicked you in the balls and stabbed you in the back, it did not hurt her. You were like superman. 

I won't go so far as to say she loves you, certainly not in a healthy way. If you were to die and she were gazing at your body, she would be moved and very angry at your betrayal, leaving her, giving her more trouble. That is of course why you dating and moving on will come as shock to her. She knows it but only because you have separated and she is feeling it.

If this is how you know so much about the 25-year-old, you need to consider leaving her old iPhone in a drawer uncharged.

Her lack of self respect has become a bigger and bigger problem. The cum stained bed cover was a real sign of it. Most normal women would want it cleaned up.

Your kids are so young. It reminds us that you are not that old, but you have a really mature outlook. You are a solid guy and this enormous about of suffering has really shaped up positively and negatively.

Turnera always warns BS not to get into the rebound relationship too quickly. Sound advice.

If you don't have a wedding ring and some women she with your kids, they must be curious.

How do you work out? Do you go to gym with a lot of eye candy on tread mills?


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> If this is how you know so much about the 25-year-old, you need to consider leaving her old iPhone in a drawer uncharged.
> 
> Her lack of self respect has become a bigger and bigger problem. The cum stained bed cover was a real sign of it. Most normal women would want it cleaned up.
> 
> If you don't have a wedding ring and some women she with your kids, they must be curious.
> 
> How do you work out? Do you go to gym with a lot of eye candy on tread mills?


I don't check up on her anymore. Not since she left the house. I told her I knew she was hooking up with him and she did not deny it. With the smug look on her face when she walked in the door to get the kids, I knew she was sleeping with him.

I agree with what you and other posters are saying. She seems to be getting worse without me around. I can't help her anymore. I was the only thing propping her up and she seems to lack the morals or self respect to do the right thing on her own.

I've been working out from home with free weights. Hard to go to a gym when it's just me and the kids. I'm going to start online dating so hopefully it goes ok. Unfortunately, I've asked around and none of my friends know single people. Everyone's in there 30's seems to already be in a relationship.


----------



## bigfoot

BD,
There are available women all around you. You, honestly, still have not taken off the "my wife" glasses. There are women to chat with, women to flirt with, women to go on short dates with, long dates, etc. You just have not been in the game for so long and you were forced out of retirement (marriage metaphor).

Stop looking for another relationship type woman and just get in the game. I'm not talking about sleeping with every woman you meet. Just get in the game. A woman you pass by regularly is someone to chat up. Maybe tell her that you've seen her a lot and wanted to tell her that her outfit looks nice, and then keep it moving. Maybe smile at her and a nod for a few days after that but keep it moving. Start checking out ring fingers. A woman with no ring on is someone to strike up a conversation with. Don't rely on friends to set you up. That is like looking for someone to bring you food. Again, too much like marriage. Go out with a group at work. You buy drinks. Women will be checking out your conspicuously bare ring finger. Trust me, the more you start going out, hanging out, striking up random conversations about common stuff, the more you will realize how much is out there. A man new to the jungle feels alone, a man who lives in the jungle sees the signs of life everywhere. Welcome to the jungle.

As soon as you start recognizing that you no longer eat at the table (marriage metaphor) but you are back in the wild, you will start seeing all that is out there. All that is out there is not relationship material, but that is not the point. You are not looking for a relationship. Not for a LONG time. Get in the game. 

As far as having kids is concerned...DUDE... they are a magnet for women. No ring, at the store with kids and brief conversations. Seriously. I'm not saying "use" your kids. Just recognize that they are very helpful. Also, grocery stores, clothing stores, all of these are places to chat up women. Seriously, the kids are the reason your conversation will have to be brief. Heck, if you end one early due to having to chase a kid, just give the woman your phone number and tell her you'd love to talk to her some more and to give you a call, then scurry off. Online dating is cool, too. It can lead to lots of hookups. Maybe you are not ready for that, but know this, there are LOTS of lonely horny women on line. OMG, once you get in the game, you will see.

Forget about WW and OM. They may crash and burn, but so what. You can never eat at her table again.


----------



## WhiteRaven

BetrayedDad said:


> She seems to be getting worse without me around. I can't help her anymore.


You can only help yourself. Ignore her.


----------



## WyshIknew

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't check up on her anymore. Not since she left the house. I told her I knew she was hooking up with him and she did not deny it. With the smug look on her face when she walked in the door to get the kids, I knew she was sleeping with him.
> 
> I agree with what you and other posters are saying. She seems to be getting worse without me around. I can't help her anymore. I was the only thing propping her up and she seems to lack the morals or self respect to do the right thing on her own.
> 
> I've been working out from home with free weights. Hard to go to a gym when it's just me and the kids. I'm going to start online dating so hopefully it goes ok. Unfortunately, I've asked around and none of my friends know single people. Everyone's in there 30's seems to already be in a relationship.


Nothing wrong with working out from home. I have a fold up weight bench that tucks away when not in use. There are plenty of routines to follow on the internet.
Plus you've got the added advantage of being able to do it in your undies if you want.

I may not be up to Mach's or others standard but I do ok for an old guy.


----------



## BetrayedDad

warlock07 said:


> why do you feel the need to tell her this? she knows and she is fine with it. Some women enjoy casual sex. She is enjoying this new FWB relationship, not sure why you keep engaging her?


I wouldn't of said anything at all if she wasn't still trying to coax me into giving her a second chance (Not that I would ever at this point). It blows me away that she will have casual sex on the side and think I would even consider taking her back while this is going on. I can't compartmentalize the way she can. 

She knows she's broken but she still wants to cake eat and I don't understand why she doesn't get that, that is the reason her life fell apart to begin with. It's just sad. I know I shouldn't care anymore and I've been trying my hardest to 180 her but it's still hard to watch.

I'm really not trying to be a shoulder for her to cry on.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Update: I just wanted to post an update since it's been awhile and I felt like venting.
> 
> 
> Since she has been kicked out I have pulled a 180 to the extend I can with her. Every time she comes to my house to pick up the kids she stinks of desperation. She has tried 3-4 times to try to get me to consider reconciliation. She tells me she, "wants her family back". She is, "almost 40, divorced, struggling financially, barely sees her kids and has nothing to show for herself". It was "the worst choice she ever made", that the relationship prior to the affair "was fixable" and she clearly realizes now the relationship with the OM was "a pure fantasy".
> 
> The best part is she tells me she, "can't stand the thought of me being with someone else." Flabbergasted, I'm just like, "but you're screwing another guy right now so how can you have the nerve to be bothered if I'm with someone else?" No response... the hypocrisy from her is never ending.
> 
> Then at the end of the convo she says, "I probably wouldn't take me back either" LOL. Probably the first truthful thing I've ever heard her say! She's still an attractive girl too and I do still care to some degree which is why the whole thing just sucks.


BD. Good to hear from you – and hang in there.

I know exactly how you feel right now…. Our situations are so similar, it really is eerie. I can relate to how you feel, and it’s good to admit that you do still care to some degree, and why this whole thing sucks. It means you are relatively sane and in touch with your feelings, and not some diabolical narcissist that uses and hurts other people (ie. Like our ex-wives). 

You can’t get past this whole mess, until you overcome how you feel about it all.

This whole thing does suck, as so much has happened to you in such a short time. I’m sure your Ex is very attractive, as is mine,…. But remember that much of their self esteem is centered around getting attention, being attractive, being pursued by others, the chase, the thrill, and quite frankly – sex with someone other than their “father figure/caregiver”,…. Which I assume at some point in your relationship with her, you became. 

Being married to a CSA Survivor is extremely complicated, and only spouses of Survivors can truly relate. You probably feel ambushed by the whole turn of events,….. the affair, the cheating, the lies, the lack of intimacy, the lack of trust, etc,……. Versus the good times, the attraction, the love, the good memories, the vacations, the reason the two of you were first attracted to each other, the intimacy when it was healthy, the family times, etc,….

You’re probably toggling between the best and the worst of both worlds,…… and it’s hard to know where you are at sometimes. 

I’m not gonna sit here and stereo type CSA Survivors, as I’m sure to get blasted by some members out there, and also – I’m not a therapist. However, I can share my experiences being married to a CSA Survivor for 13 years and having developed several friendships and support with other spouses of CSA Survivors and Survivors themselves.

In all the books, articles, research, and therapy I’ve been through the past 10 years working on my marriage with a CSA Survivor, everything I read said that there is a high probability for Survivors who Act Out, to commit adultery, be promiscuous, project unresolved issues from their trauma onto their spouses,… develop increased trust issues with their spouses as their relationship deepens,…..

I learned to tune it out, or justify somehow that this wasn’t my wife, that she would never cheat on me, that I could trust her with everything, and that she would always be there for me. Well guess what? I was wrong – very wrong. She ended up being a backstabbing-narcissistic-lying-*****. Her cheating on me, was always going to happen. It is part of who she is,….. she can’t help it. 

Somehow this wounded little girl in her, needs validation, and needs it sexually from someone who is NOT close to her. It’s so screwed up, I can’t even explain it properly – but it is text book Acting Out behavior.

I guess that’s my point for you BD,…. Your Ex was destined to do this to you, to betray you and to destroy your marriage. And here’s the kicker, it wasn’t even intentional. It’s more like a formula or destiny that she’s fulfilling,……and right now you are conflicted between “fantasy and reality”.

The fantasy is that you still have some degree of feelings for your ex, she is still very attractive, you ultimately wish the affair never happened, and you dream of having a happy family life together with her and the kids. 

The reality is, she cheated on you, she can’t be trusted, she wants to have sex with other men, and she doesn’t seem to be giving any effort to address her CSA issues. You are doomed with her my friend, as am I with my ex. It will never be a happy ending with our ex’s,…… I’m sorry to be blunt.

She and my Ex, are not among the lucky CSA Survivors who have the courage to work on their CSA Trauma. They will never be a life partner that we could trust. 

My intent is not to upset you, but to encourage you to keep moving forward with your new life.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Really!?!? said:


> This whole thing does suck, as so much has happened to you in such a short time. I’m sure your Ex is very attractive, as is mine,…. But remember that much of their self esteem is centered around getting attention, being attractive, being pursued by others, the chase, the thrill, and quite frankly – sex with someone other than their “father figure/caregiver”,…. Which I assume at some point in your relationship with her, you became.


Exactly right as usual and it's no wonder she lost her attraction to me. Who would want to sleep with their mental "father figure"? Makes me sick thinking about it. I thought I was taking care of her since she seemed (and still is) incapable of doing it herself.




Really!?!? said:


> You’re probably toggling between the best and the worst of both worlds,…… and it’s hard to know where you are at sometimes..... and right now you are conflicted between “fantasy and reality”.
> 
> The fantasy is that you still have some degree of feelings for your ex, she is still very attractive, you ultimately wish the affair never happened, and you dream of having a happy family life together with her and the kids.
> 
> The reality is, she cheated on you, she can’t be trusted, she wants to have sex with other men, and she doesn’t seem to be giving any effort to address her CSA issues. You are doomed with her my friend, as am I with my ex. It will never be a happy ending with our ex’s,…… I’m sorry to be blunt.
> 
> You can’t get past this whole mess, until you overcome how you feel about it all.


This is precisely the current mental conflict I am going through right now. My heart still cares for her but my head is screaming at me that I would be the biggest chump and fool on the planet if I gave her another chance to f*** me over. And she would too. Sooner or later, she would. No doubt about it. It just causes me depression and loss of appetite dwelling on it and I can't seem to shake it from my head. I know I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing by moving on but it's such a struggle. I can't seem to overcome the loss.




Really!?!? said:


> My intent is not to upset you, but to encourage you to keep moving forward with your new life.


I appreciate it. I know I MUST move on. It's not really an option for me. She's toxic and broken. Still a narcissist and like a junky, continuing to indulge in these amoral behaviors to distract herself from the pain SHE caused to herself in the first place. I refuse to be her dad and I'm not going to bail her out again. As much as it hurts to see, she made her bed. She can lay in it. I had hoped she would try to fix herself for our kids sake. She seems unable and/or unwilling to do so.


----------



## harrybrown

You need to start dating now.

Any dates lately?


----------



## BetrayedDad

harrybrown said:


> You need to start dating now.
> 
> Any dates lately?


I've had a few good friends screaming at me to join match.com. I asked them to rate me and the consensus seems to be I'm around a 6-7. So I know I'm not a troll. I downloaded a dating app this weekend just to dip my toes in the water. I had a ton of matches and ended up chatting up 5 different girls. 

And I HATED every minute of it.... 

I don't know what's wrong with me. I just felt like I was going through the motions and could of cared less what any of them had to say. One of them even gave me her phone number. They all seemed to enjoy the conversation but I just wasn't into it. It felt like I was on a job interview. I think I'm still in a relationship mentality and I can't get my mind in the game cause I'm still constantly dwelling about the whole thing.


----------



## Chaparral

Go out, the ladies aren't as hard to approach as they used to be. Flirt a little and relax.

Right after I broke up with my cheating partner, I ended up dating three women. I wasn't able to take that very long. lol But it sure took my mind off the cheater I was going to marry.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't check up on her anymore. Not since she left the house. I told her I knew she was hooking up with him and she did not deny it. With the smug look on her face when she walked in the door to get the kids, I knew she was sleeping with him.
> 
> I agree with what you and other posters are saying. She seems to be getting worse without me around. I can't help her anymore. I was the only thing propping her up and she seems to lack the morals or self respect to do the right thing on her own.
> 
> I've been working out from home with free weights. Hard to go to a gym when it's just me and the kids. I'm going to start online dating so hopefully it goes ok. Unfortunately, I've asked around and none of my friends know single people. Everyone's in there 30's seems to already be in a relationship.


I'm in the same exact predicament. However, my WW is trying to play the victim, that I don't listen to her - truly listen. She is not doing the greatest financially, but all other aspects of her life appear to be fine. She told me herself she is a strong, resilient woman and NO ONE is going to bring her down and therefore doesn't need anyone but her kids.

She may go home and cry her eyes out but I doubt it. She has the hardest, coldest heart, I have ever seen on someone and had she shown any flashes of that before we were married, I would have never married her.


----------



## jorgegene

Betrayed Dad;

I don't agree with the advise, go out and have fun with gals.

It appears (and rightly so), you are not ready to date. You're hearts not in it. You admit so.

Why go out with gals and have them get attached to you or try to drag you into some kind of relationship in your vulnerable state?

Give your yourself time to heal. Why hurry?

I've seen a number of posters in CWI suggest as soon as the marriage is broken for good go out and have a blast. Bad things can happen and people can get hurt. It's called 'rebound' relationship and more often than not, it's no good.

Count me among the people who say, just cool it. 

It's not that bad to be alone for a while. Better than getting hurt in your wounded state, or hurting someone.

What the &ell is the hurry BTW?


----------



## turnera

I would, instead, hook up with some interests you used to be involved in or always wanted to. Fill your time enjoying those things. Who knows, you may even meet a woman down the road who enjoys what you do.


----------



## bandit.45

jorgegene said:


> Betrayed Dad;
> 
> I don't agree with the advise, go out and have fun with gals.
> 
> It appears (and rightly so), you are not ready to date. You're hearts not in it. You admit so.
> 
> Why go out with gals and have them get attached to you or try to drag you into some kind of relationship in your vulnerable state?
> 
> Give your yourself time to heal. Why hurry?
> 
> I've seen a number of posters in CWI suggest as soon as the marriage is broken for good go out and have a blast. Bad things can happen and people can get hurt. It's called 'rebound' relationship and more often than not, it's no good.
> 
> Count me among the people who say, just cool it.
> 
> It's not that bad to be alone for a while. Better than getting hurt in your wounded state, or hurting someone.
> 
> What the &ell is the hurry BTW?


I think there needs to be a balance. For a man, knowing his wife has been bedding other men is humiliating and emasculating. That emasculation has a huge impact on how a male sees himself. 

Sometimes sleeping with another woman, taking back the hill so to speak, can help a man regain a sense of his masculinity and manhood. 

But he has to be careful not to allow his feelings to get wound up in the woman. He needs to be honest wit her that he is not looking for a permanent thing. As long as he's honest up front, I don't see alot wrong with it. But that's just me.


----------



## turnera

From what I've seen, some men who come here NEED to go out and 'conquer' another woman for both physical and psychological reasons. Others, well, they just don't. They seek other ways to restore their balance. Once we realize a guy is one way or the other, we usually leave them alone about it.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> From what I've seen, some men who come here NEED to go out and 'conquer' another woman for both physical and psychological reasons. Others, well, they just don't. They seek other ways to restore their balance. Once we realize a guy is one way or the other, we usually leave them alone about it.


Totally agree with you on that. Maybe BD is just not that type of guy.


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> From what I've seen, some men who come here NEED to go out and 'conquer' another woman for both physical and psychological reasons. Others, well, they just don't. They seek other ways to restore their balance. Once we realize a guy is one way or the other, we usually leave them alone about it.


I definitely have that urge right now don't get me wrong. By nature, I'm a pretty sexual person but at the same time I don't want to trick some girl into sleeping with me. Unless I've been out of the game too long, last I checked most women have a very hard time having no strings attached sex. Even the ones who claim they do eventually get emotionally involved. And I also don't want to come off as some creep asking women for casual sex. I just wish I wasn't so emotionally detached. I guess I just need to let time pass and continue the 180.


----------



## turnera

From what DD23 tells me, women are a lot less needing to be attached to be able to or want to have sex these days. Visit some bars and see what happens.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

There's no right or wrong answer, really.

Do whatever you feel is needed to heal.

You don't have to "trick" women into having sex with you at all.
If it happens, it happens. It's the same as trying to meet people.
When you try too hard, you usually end up disappointed. Just let
things happen naturally. It was a lot easier than I thought it was.

Do whatever you feel is needed to enjoy yourself.

I went out and tried to enjoy myself as much as possible after
my ex was out of the picture. Some were ONS's and others were
women I had plenty of things in common with that just ended 
prematurely or for one reason or another. My heart was never broken
and neither were theirs. It was what it was. I never, ever mentioned
or propositioned the women I met with sex. Why? I'm not that kind of
person. That's right, every woman I've been with since my ex brought it
up first without me doing anything to suggest I wanted it, really.

The thing that I learned the most from those experiences was that
I was chasing that feeling of comfort and never really found it. ONS's were
fun, yet emotionally didn't mean anything. I wasn't using those women 
anymore than they were using me. 

It takes two to tango.

Be safe and have no regrets. Life is too short. Enjoy it.

You're free. Go at your own pace.

Get out there and live.


----------



## bfree

Yeah, women want to have sex too. It's not a trick unless you pay for it.


----------



## missthelove2013

I am newly divorced, in my mid 40's...and I can not believe how easy it is to get some nookie...

think about it...last time we dated full time, we were in our late teens, mid 20's...women our age were looking to get married, find a husband, have kids, settle down (generally speaking) and they didnt want to be too easy, seem like ****s, they were young, inexperienced, and SO WORRIED about what their girlfriends thought

NOW, women our age have BEEN married, HAVE kids, and are already settled down (generally speaking of course)...arent looking for a husband or a wallet, and just want a companion...men and women in their 40's and dating imo are more in tune with each other than men and women in their 20's

if you find it hard, join a divorce support group and meet some newly divorced women...they are possibly in the same place you are

also, generally speaking, beware the 40 something womens who have NEVER been married...there is a reason why and GENERALLY it isnt because they are the coolest, most laid back & well adjusted ****e together financially secure sexuall dynamos on the planet


----------



## BetrayedDad

missthelove2013 said:


> think about it...last time we dated full time, we were in our late teens, mid 20's...women our age were looking to get married, find a husband, have kids, settle down (generally speaking) and they didnt want to be too easy, seem like ****s, they were young, inexperienced, and SO WORRIED about what their girlfriends thought


That's pretty much where my mindset is... I guess times and people change. I had no idea but I'm glad TAM is clueing me in before I make a complete idiot of myself in the dating world. I was with my ex since my early 20's and unlike her I wasn't fishing for tail most of the time... 

I actually have a date tomorrow night so we'll see how it goes. I followed your thread by the way. Got alot out of it. Thanks for posting it.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Exactly right as usual and it's no wonder she lost her attraction to me. Who would want to sleep with their mental "father figure"? Makes me sick thinking about it. I thought I was taking care of her since she seemed (and still is) incapable of doing it herself.



Precisely – this is exactly what my IC pointed out to me. I specifically chose an IC that specialized in sexual issues, relationships, CSA survivors, and secondary survivors. As you and I started taking care of our spouses when they were becoming incapable of doing it themselves, we were also slowly transforming their view of us from husband/lover, to caregiver/parent (subconsciously of course). In a normal relationship, it seems perfectly normal to take care of someone you love. How were we to know that it would backfire on us in a relationship with a CSA Survivor?




BetrayedDad said:


> This is precisely the current mental conflict I am going through right now. My heart still cares for her but my head is screaming at me that I would be the biggest chump and fool on the planet if I gave her another chance to f*** me over. And she would too. Sooner or later, she would. No doubt about it. It just causes me depression and loss of appetite dwelling on it and I can't seem to shake it from my head. I know I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing by moving on but it's such a struggle. I can't seem to overcome the loss..



If it makes you feel any better, this is what I struggle with every day as well. You know the ground work now, that you could never trust your ex again, and that you are better off without her as a spouse,…. But your emotions are holding you back. Don’t beat yourself up about it. We were hurt pretty bad in our situations, and being betrayed and overcoming it is a very painful process. The only way to get past the pain, is to go through it. It will happen in time.





BetrayedDad said:


> I appreciate it. I know I MUST move on. It's not really an option for me. She's toxic and broken. Still a narcissist and like a junky, continuing to indulge in these amoral behaviors to distract herself from the pain SHE caused to herself in the first place. I refuse to be her dad and I'm not going to bail her out again. As much as it hurts to see, she made her bed. She can lay in it. I had hoped she would try to fix herself for our kids sake. She seems unable and/or unwilling to do so.



Unfortunately, this is correct. She doesn’t want to acknowledge that she has these issues to work on. For most Survivors, confronting the past is too painful, to scary, to hurtful,….. so the last thing they want to do is re-live it. However, from what I have read, most survivors who are successful in their healing, have had to go back and address their past , and also spend years of consistent and productive IC to heal from it. I don’t think our Ex’s are among those that are willing to do that.


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't know what's wrong with me. I just felt like I was going through the motions and could of cared less what any of them had to say. One of them even gave me her phone number.
> 
> They all seemed to enjoy the conversation but I just wasn't into it. It felt like I was on a job interview. I think I'm still in a relationship mentality and I can't get my mind in the game cause I'm still constantly dwelling about the whole thing.


I know what you mean. Don't stress over it,.... it's not like you have an on/off switch for your emotions. 

It's good to hear that you're getting back on the dating horse,.... just don't expect sex right away. "Dating" doesn't necessarily mean "sexing",.... just let it happen naturally. You may be surprised how quickly you'll adjust,.... and be able to move on from your toxic marriage. 

We both have to deal with our Ex's for the rest of our lives because of our kids,.... so it's gong to be really hard to detach from our emotions of the past with them. Just remind yourself of that, so it doesn't disable you every time you have to see her.

Have fun on your date!


----------



## Hardtohandle

Hey BD, Glad you found out all the truths you needed to find out in your marriage. 

I'm glad you're moving on.

Dating will have its own issues be ready..


----------



## BetrayedDad

Through this whole process I constantly struggled with whether my ex was just really stupid or evil when she ruined our marriage by cheating on me. I'd say it's a 70/30 split towards the former. Especially, when I get emails like this about our daughter:



> "I gave her gluten free pasta this weekend...she broke out in a rash all over her arms and chest..she might be allergic to gluten... I just call her allergist to see if this was something that she was tested for (gluten)"


I almost pity her sometimes. Like I've said in several prior posts on this thread. She's not the sharpest tool in the shed.


----------



## harrybrown

I am sorry, but that did make me laugh.

Hope your daughter gets better.

I also hope that someday your ex will realize what horrible thing she did, but she may never realize it.

I do hope you are on your way to a healing much better place.


----------



## tom67

harrybrown said:


> I am sorry, but that did make me laugh.
> 
> Hope your daughter gets better.
> 
> I also hope that someday your ex will realize what horrible thing she did, but she may never realize it.
> 
> I do hope you are on your way to a healing much better place.


:iagree:
laugh and :scratchhead::scratchhead:at the same time.

I am not the brightest light bulb but holy cow.


----------



## 3putt

BetrayedDad said:


> "I gave her gluten free pasta this weekend...she broke out in a rash all over her arms and chest..she might be allergic to gluten... I just call her allergist to see if this was something that she was tested for (gluten)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I almost pity her sometimes. Like I've said in several prior posts on this thread. *She's not the sharpest tool in the shed.*
Click to expand...


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> Through this whole process I constantly struggled with whether my ex was just really stupid or evil when she ruined our marriage by cheating on me. I'd say it's a 70/30 split towards the former. Especially, when I get emails like this about our daughter:
> 
> From Ex: *"I gave her gluten free pasta this weekend...she broke out in a rash all over her arms and chest..she might be allergic to gluten... I just call her allergist to see if this was something that she was tested for (gluten)" *
> 
> I almost pity her sometimes. Like I've said in several prior posts on this thread. She's not the sharpest tool in the shed.


There could be a neurological / physiological explanation for this:

*Child sexual abuse* From Wikipedia
*
Neurological damage*
_Research has shown that traumatic stress, including stress caused by sexual abuse, causes notable changes in brain functioning and development.[75][76] Various studies have suggested that severe child sexual abuse may have a deleterious effect on brain development. Ito et al. (1998) found "reversed hemispheric asymmetry and greater left hemisphere coherence in abused subjects;"[77] Teicher et al. (1993) found that an increased likelihood of "ictal temporal lobe epilepsy-like symptoms" in abused subjects;[78] Anderson et al. (2002) recorded abnormal transverse relaxation time in the cerebellar vermis of adults sexually abused in childhood;[79] Teicher et al. (1993) found that child sexual abuse was associated with a reduced corpus callosum area; various studies have found an association of reduced volume of the left hippocampus with child sexual abuse;[80] and Ito et al. (1993) found increased electrophysiological abnormalities in sexually abused children.[81]

Some studies indicate that sexual or physical abuse in children can lead to the overexcitation of an undeveloped limbic system.[80] Teicher et al. (1993)[78] used the "Limbic System Checklist-33" to measure ictal temporal lobe epilepsy-like symptoms in 253 adults. Reports of child sexual abuse were associated with a 49% increase to LSCL-33 scores, 11% higher than the associated increase of self-reported physical abuse. Reports of both physical and sexual abuse were associated with a 113% increase. Male and female victims were similarly affected.[78][82]

Navalta et al. (2006) found that the self-reported math Scholastic Aptitude Test scores of their sample of women with a history of repeated child sexual abuse were significantly lower than the self-reported math SAT scores of their non-abused sample. Because the abused subjects verbal SAT scores were high, they hypothesized that the low math SAT scores could "stem from a defect in hemispheric integration." They also found a strong association between short term memory impairments for all categories tested (verbal, visual, and global) and the duration of the abuse.[83]_


----------



## BetrayedDad

Really!?!? said:


> Navalta et al. (2006) found that the self-reported math Scholastic Aptitude Test scores of their sample of women with a history of repeated child sexual abuse were significantly lower than the self-reported math SAT scores of their non-abused sample. Because the abused subjects verbal SAT scores were high, they hypothesized that the low math SAT scores could "stem from a defect in hemispheric integration." They also found a strong association between short term memory impairments for all categories tested (verbal, visual, and global) and the duration of the abuse.[83][/I]



It's so interesting you found this. She's never been great with grammar or spelling but gets by with spell check. Seems to read fine at an age appropriate level. However, her math skills are absolutely HORRENDOUS. As in, she doesn't even know the multiplication table. Literally, if you asked her what 9 x 8 is she will start sweating. She seems normal enough when you converse with her but she has the education level of a grammar school kid (She did some how graduate high school). What she does excel in is absolutely USELESS trivial knowledge (ie what the Kardasians are up to, who starred in this movie, what's fashionable this fall). 

I'm not sure I'm glad you to told me this. It kind of makes me feel more sorry for her and I'd rather I didn't because my mind starts racing to justify her behavior again. I guess it's just more comforting to believe she's just an evil person who knew what she was doing rather than a screwed up one who can't control themselves because she has mental problems from being a victim of CSA.


----------



## turnera

Has nothing to do with morals.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Has nothing to do with morals.


Bingo!

That is the crux of her problems. She's loose and amoral and apparently unable to control her urge to bed any willing guy within visual range.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

I wonder is she has a sex addiction?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> I wonder is she has a sex addiction?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's more of a love addiction. Constantly wants to be in the honeymoon phase of a relationship. And yes she is amoral. No sense of ethics, self respect or integrity. Just a very emotional creature driven by impulse.


----------



## bandit.45

So she has that thing that Liz Taylor had. Marylin Monroe too I believe. Once the honeymoon wears off they go looking for a new fix. She wants you to be her Joe DiMaggio and pine away for her the rest of your life?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> It's more of a love addiction. Constantly wants to be in the honeymoon phase of a relationship. And yes she is amoral. No sense of ethics, self respect or integrity. Just a very emotional creature driven by impulse.


It's funny because at one point my mother-in-law told me that she believed my WW had a mental issue that caused her to always want something new in her life. That she is like a child that gets bored quickly with a toy and needs a new otherwise she is not happy. I wonder if it is a disorder or just a characteristic in certain women and men?


----------



## cantthinkstraight

SF-FAN said:


> It's funny because at one point my mother-in-law told me that she believed my WW had a mental issue that caused her to always want something new in her life. That she is like a child that gets bored quickly with a toy and needs a new otherwise she is not happy. I wonder if it is a disorder or just a characteristic in certain women and men?


That sounds *EXACTLY* like my EWW.

Nothing is/was ever good enough.

Not happy unless she's in control... and we found out how well that worked out.

Borderline Personality Disorder.


----------



## bandit.45

I think love addiction is real. 

What's interesting about Taylor and Monroe is that, even though they moved from man to man to man, they always had one man who they kept going back to for emotional support. Monroe had DiMaggio, Taylor had Burton....


----------



## bandit.45

cantthinkstraight said:


> That sounds *EXACTLY* like my EWW.
> 
> Nothing is/was ever good enough.
> 
> Not happy unless she's in control... and we found out how well that worked out.
> 
> Borderline Personality Disorder.


Your ex was just an unremorseful beotch.... keep it simple.


----------



## WhiteRaven

bandit.45 said:


> I think love addiction is real.
> 
> What's interesting about Taylor and Monroe is that, even though they moved from man to man to man, they always had one man who they kept going back to for emotional support. Monroe had DiMaggio, Taylor had Burton....


Both guys liked being plan 'B'. Sad.


----------



## bandit.45

WhiteRaven said:


> Both guys liked being plan 'B'. Sad.


DiMaggio visited Monroe's mausoleum, on her birthday, every year, until he died, and he always placed a white rose there. 

Now that's carrying a torch.


----------



## SF-FAN

cantthinkstraight said:


> That sounds *EXACTLY* like my EWW.
> 
> Nothing is/was ever good enough.
> 
> Not happy unless she's in control... and we found out how well that worked out.
> 
> Borderline Personality Disorder.


People like that will NEVER be satisfied in a long term relationship and should never have kids or get into a relationship period. Before her affair, I did notice my WW got bored very quickly with many things. Clothes, purses, cars, etc. I could see her eyes light up when she got something new but soon after she would lose interest. I always wondered if she'd get tired of me and our marriage - well I got my answer.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> People like that will NEVER be satisfied in a long term relationship and should never have kids or get into a relationship period. Before her affair, I did notice my WW got bored very quickly with many things. Clothes, purses, cars, etc. I could see her eyes light up when she got something new but soon after she would lose interest. I always wondered if she'd get tired of me and our marriage - well I got my answer.


Yeah, and she'll get bored with the OM she is with now, and the next one.... and the next one....

Pity her as much as anything. Thats a lonely way to live one's life.


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, and she'll get bored with the OM she is with now, and the next one.... and the next one....
> 
> Pity her as much as anything. Thats a lonely way to live one's life.


Funny you say that, one of her comments when I caught her having an affair was "well study shows that a person that cheats almost never ends up with the person they cheated with" which was more of a slap in the face to me than anything. I guess she thought I was going to jump for joy about it.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> Funny you say that, one of her comments when I caught her having an affair was "well study shows that a person that cheats almost never ends up with the person they cheated with" which was more of a slap in the face to me than anything. I guess she thought I was going to jump for joy about it.


Yeah... which is her way of admitting to you and herself that she's a petty slvt.... and always will be. 

No desire to change, no intention to be faithful to you or any man. 

All the more reason for you to shake the dust off your sandals and walk away from her skank azz forever.


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> It's funny because at one point my mother-in-law told me that she believed my WW had a mental issue that caused her to always want something new in her life. That she is like a child that gets bored quickly with a toy and needs a new otherwise she is not happy. I wonder if it is a disorder or just a characteristic in certain women and men?


Actually, that is quite common for abuse survivors.


----------



## SF-FAN

turnera said:


> Actually, that is quite common for abuse survivors.


She claims to have been physically and mentally abused as a child and even sexually abused so she is damaged to say the least. BUT she doesn't want to seek help so not much anyone can do for her.


----------



## bandit.45

SF-FAN said:


> She claims to have been physically and mentally abused as a child and even sexually abused so she is damaged to say the least. BUT she doesn't want to seek help so not much anyone can do for her.


She doesn't want to change. She likes herself the way she is.... No matter how destructive and hurtful her actions are. 


Now that's sick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

bandit.45 said:


> She doesn't want to change. She likes herself the way she is.... No matter how destructive and hurtful her actions are.
> 
> 
> Now that's sick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's scared to "face her demons." She doesn't want to face the affair either. She's a coward. If she'd face everything, she may become a decent person and enjoy life more but like you said, she likes herself the way she is.


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> I think love addiction is real.
> 
> What's interesting about Taylor and Monroe is that, even though they moved from man to man to man, they always had one man who they kept going back to for emotional support. Monroe had DiMaggio, Taylor had Burton....


Funny you say that because ex keeps looking to me for emotional support. Even while she's with some other guy. The last time I looked at her and said, "Why don't you go to XXXX it's the least he can do since your letting him sleep with you." She looked at me like I had two heads! Almost like it's crazy to expect any kind of help or support from a guy your screwing.

It's completely compartimentalized in their messed up brains: This is the guy you go to when you need a dad, this is the guy you sleep with so he sticks around because you can't be alone, this is the guy who broke your heart and you secretly pine for forever, etc. 



SF-FAN said:


> People like that will NEVER be satisfied in a long term relationship and should never have kids or get into a relationship period. Before her affair, I did notice my WW got bored very quickly with many things. Clothes, purses, cars, etc. I could see her eyes light up when she got something new but soon after she would lose interest. I always wondered if she'd get tired of me and our marriage - well I got my answer.


Me and my ex used to have a running joke. We heard this song a few years ago called "Brand New" (I think Kanye West sung it?) anyway I'd always joke that she didn't like something unless it was brand new. Little did I know at the time that extended to PEOPLE too. She used to light up whenever she bought a new car, purse, jewelry whatever but that would last maybe a week and she would quickly become bored with it.


----------



## bandit.45

BD as you heal you will begin to see how broken your ex is in so many other ways...and not just in her relationships. 

You're still hurting and her brazenness makes it worse. But at the end of the day it is you who the kids will respect. Not her. I see a house full of cats in her future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> You're still hurting and her brazenness makes it worse. But at the end of the day it is you who the kids will respect. Not her. I see a house full of cats in her future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At this point, I'm just hurt that I was duped into marrying an amoral, selfish, idiot like her. I was looking for a good woman with a good heart and I felt like I was conned. I pretty much got a dud and wasted a decade of my life. My only consolation prize is my two kids whom I absolutely adore. 

Just have to dust myself off and try again. Not much else I can do... Better in my 30's than wasting another decade in false R with a broken woman.


----------



## jerry123

BetrayedDad said:


> At this point, I'm just hurt that I was duped into marrying an amoral, selfish, idiot like her. I was looking for a good woman with a good heart and I felt like I was conned. I pretty much got a dud and wasted a decade of my life. My only consolation prize is my two kids whom I absolutely adore.
> 
> Just have to dust myself off and try again. Not much else I can do... Better in my 30's than wasting another decade in false R with a broken woman.


Yup!!!

I have a friend whose wife started meeting people online back in 1996. Internet was new and she reached out by chatting with people online. The woman left him and their 2 young kids to be with this guy in the same state. Husband said good, go. And he raised the two kids himself. Mother was never around and those kids grew up despising her. Still do. She ended up marrying the online guy but it only lasted 3 years. Just last year my friend heard they were getting divorced and the online guy called my friend to apologize for taking her away from him and kids. My friend said "oh don't apologize, you did me a favor." Now they are somewhat friends and go out to dinner once in a while. 

So same as you, be glad she's gone. My friend was married for 20 wasted years. He got divorced at 49. You have a lifetime at your age.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

BetrayedDad said:


> Funny you say that because ex keeps looking to me for emotional support. Even while she's with some other guy. The last time I looked at her and said, "Why don't you go to XXXX it's the least he can do since your letting him sleep with you." She looked at me like I had two heads! Almost like it's crazy to expect any kind of help or support from a guy your screwing.
> 
> It's completely compartimentalized in their messed up brains: This is the guy you go to when you need a dad, this is the guy you sleep with so he sticks around because you can't be alone, this is the guy who broke your heart and you secretly pine for forever, etc.


At some point you should tell her...

"Do you understand that, if it weren't for the kids, I wouldn't talk w/ you AT ALL?!? Seriously, you'd have never heard from me again -- not even a single peep -- once we'd signed the divorce papers. I have no interest in being a father, brother, confidant, friend, or anything other than a co-parent to you. That's it. That's all. I don't want to hear, read, or smell your sh*t, so either take it to OM (or literally anyone other than me) or keep it to yourself."

Or something like that.


----------



## Marduk

Just wait until you stop supporting her and she turns to the OM for support.

Then you'll see the end result of compartmentalization.


----------



## WhiteRaven

BD, let me summarize the thread for you:-

*Best way to divorce my wife* - get a good attorney.

It's simple. 
It's hard. 
It's what you need. 

Strength to you, bro.


----------



## GusPolinski

WhiteRaven said:


> BD, let me summarize the thread for you:-
> 
> *Best way to divorce my wife* - get a good attorney.
> 
> It's simple.
> It's hard.
> It's what you need.
> 
> Strength to you, bro.


Fortunately I think they're already divorced. Right...?


----------



## WhiteRaven

GusPolinski said:


> Fortunately I think they're already divorced. Right...?


That's what I'm trying to tell BT. I was, maybe still committing his mistakes. An ex is an ex. Move forward. Mine keeps attempting suicide. I can't save her life b/c I'll end up destroying mine in the process.

You can't save everyone. Save your kids and yourself. 180 for life with her.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> Funny you say that because ex keeps looking to me for emotional support. Even while she's with some other guy. The last time I looked at her and said, "Why don't you go to XXXX it's the least he can do since your letting him sleep with you." She looked at me like I had two heads! Almost like it's crazy to expect any kind of help or support from a guy your screwing.
> 
> It's completely compartimentalized in their messed up brains: This is the guy you go to when you need a dad, this is the guy you sleep with so he sticks around because you can't be alone, this is the guy who broke your heart and you secretly pine for forever, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Me and my ex used to have a running joke. We heard this song a few years ago called "Brand New" (I think Kanye West sung it?) anyway I'd always joke that she didn't like something unless it was brand new. Little did I know at the time that extended to PEOPLE too. *She used to light up whenever she bought a new car, purse, jewelry whatever but that would last maybe a week and she would quickly become bored with it*.


HA! I know that look all too well. That's no way to live. Nothing stays brand new...NOTHING. I used to make fun of her because she would buy me clothes for a birthday, Christmas, etc. and a week or month later I'd wear it and she didn't like it. I'd tell her "YOU BOUGHT IT?!!"


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> Fortunately I think they're already divorced. Right...?


Yes they are already divorced but she continued living in the same house with him up until a couple months ago.


----------



## soccermom2three

You know, I wonder if my SIL is like this because when my BIL met her when she was splitting with her 1st husband, (BIL swears there was no overlap), and when she moved out she had a new boyfriend (BIL), bought a new car, and filled her new apartment with new furniture.

Now 10 years later, she moves out, guess what? New boyfriend (AP), new car, new apartment, new furniture. 

Curious to see what happens in another 10 years.


----------



## Really!?!?

*Child sexual abuse From Wikipedia*

Neurological damage - Research has shown that traumatic stress, including stress caused by sexual abuse, causes notable changes in brain functioning and development.[75][76] Various studies have suggested that severe child sexual abuse may have a deleterious effect on brain development.



BetrayedDad said:


> It's so interesting you found this. She's never been great with grammar or spelling but gets by with spell check. Seems to read fine at an age appropriate level. However, her math skills are absolutely HORRENDOUS. As in, she doesn't even know the multiplication table. Literally, if you asked her what 9 x 8 is she will start sweating. She seems normal enough when you converse with her but she has the education level of a grammar school kid (She did some how graduate high school). What she does excel in is absolutely USELESS trivial knowledge (ie what the Kardasians are up to, who starred in this movie, what's fashionable this fall).
> 
> I'm not sure I'm glad you to told me this. It kind of makes me feel more sorry for her and I'd rather I didn't because my mind starts racing to justify her behavior again. I guess it's just more comforting to believe she's just an evil person who knew what she was doing rather than a screwed up one who can't control themselves because she has mental problems from being a victim of CSA.


BD, I had the same reaction you did. Survivors are victims, they had something horrible happen to them, that changed them forever when they were abused,..... but still - that is no license to go on the rest of their lives hurting innocent people, spouses, children, loved ones,.... our Ex's have been doing that, and will continue to do that. If you happened to get back with her again,.... she would cheat on you again - beleive it.

My ex can carry on and flirt with the best of them,... but balance her checkbook, no way in hell! that part of her brain never developed. It's scary to think such trauma at an early age can stunt brain develpment,... but this is REAL neurological and physiological damage that can occur!!!

Our Ex's doing Evil things,... is REAL too!


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> It's more of a love addiction. Constantly wants to be in the honeymoon phase of a relationship. And yes she is amoral. No sense of ethics, self respect or integrity. Just a very emotional creature driven by impulse.


totally,... it's the constant need to be wanted, pursued, validated,.... it's stems from the abuse > re-wiring their sexual development prematurely.

When the chase stops,.... they move on.

It's text book, it's what happened to us, and it's in all the reading and research I've seen


----------



## turnera

DD23's friend wasn't really wanted by her parents; they made that clear. Older AND younger siblings were doted on. Today, this 22 year old is married with an accident child and she pretty much forces her husband to keep 'proving' to her that she's valuable. On a $23,000/year income (his, she's a student), they probably spent $3000 last year on stuff for her - concerts, bed & breakfasts, $400 birthday party for a 1 year old, hairdos, hotels, on and on and on. It never stops. NOTHING is good enough; she'll be 'high' on life for a day or two after having $500-$600 blown on her and a day later, she's back to hating life and hating everyone else. Then he'll go do another thing and she'll be up leading up to it and, voila!, a day later down again. Nothing ever satisfies what's missing in her own soul. Won't take her ADs. Refuses to go to therapy. We're giving them another year before he just gives up and leaves her.


----------



## Really!?!?

SF-FAN said:


> It's funny because at one point my mother-in-law told me that she believed my WW had a mental issue that caused her to always want something new in her life. That she is like a child that gets bored quickly with a toy and needs a new otherwise she is not happy. I wonder if it is a disorder or just a characteristic in certain women and men?


From what I have been told, it is behaviorial pattern that can be developed from some certain pyschopathology.

In CSA Survivors, it can be a form of Acting Out - the contant need for change, re-newing chapters in their lives, another compartmentalized false persona, coping mechanism, distraction, detachment, defense technique, to surpress previous trauma,.....

it's REAL ****

_"In many CSA Survivors, BPD, and/or Narcasissts - their emotional age and maturity corresponds to the age they experienced their major trauma. Ths trauma was so devastating to the point it almost killed them emotionally. The pain never was totally gone and the bleeding was continuous. In order to survive, this child had to construct a protective barrier that insulates him/her from the external world of people. He generalized that all people are harmful and cannot be trusted."_

As adults, they may have various false persona's at work to survive out in the world,.... but inside - they will always be this scared little child.


----------



## Really!?!?

SF-FAN said:


> She claims to have been physically and mentally abused as a child and even sexually abused so she is damaged to say the least. BUT she doesn't want to seek help so not much anyone can do for her.


Unfortunately, this is fairly typical. Survivors are too afraid to go back down that rabbit hole, which is usually needed to heal from their trauma. It rarely happens,.... but from what I've heard, the only way some survivors have been able to successfully heal is to take on their past trauma.

My ex and BD's ex, are not amoung those willing to work on their issues. They'd rather move on to the next guy wanting to bed them.


----------



## warlock07

BetrayedDad said:


> It's so interesting you found this. She's never been great with grammar or spelling but gets by with spell check. Seems to read fine at an age appropriate level. However, her math skills are absolutely HORRENDOUS. As in, she doesn't even know the multiplication table. Literally, if you asked her what 9 x 8 is she will start sweating. She seems normal enough when you converse with her but she has the education level of a grammar school kid (She did some how graduate high school). What she does excel in is absolutely USELESS trivial knowledge (ie what the Kardasians are up to, who starred in this movie, what's fashionable this fall).



Ask her multiplication tables next time she asks for emotional support. The more vile you want to be, the larger the numbers. 

"So, your 5th bf since our divorce dumped you? You poor little thing. But before I say another word, how much do you think 23 *17 is ?"


I try.....


----------



## Really!?!?

BetrayedDad said:


> At this point, I'm just hurt that I was duped into marrying an amoral, selfish, idiot like her. I was looking for a good woman with a good heart and I felt like I was conned. I pretty much got a dud and wasted a decade of my life. My only consolation prize is my two kids whom I absolutely adore.
> 
> Just have to dust myself off and try again. Not much else I can do... Better in my 30's than wasting another decade in false R with a broken woman.


BD, I couldn't have said this any better,... regarding my situation!

I feel like I was scammed too! Our situations are so similar,.....

I look back on the 15 years I was with my Ex (10 years married), and I think what a shame. We did have so many good times and memories together - and I spent a lot of those times thinking about what our lives were going to be like when we grew old together, what the kids would turn out like, where we would travel, etc,....

And all that is friggin' history now,.......

On the other hand,... perhaps the relationship we had with our Ex's had a limited shelf life,.... it could have been one of their compartmentalized false personas we were married too,.... who knows.

You hit the nail on the head though,... our Ex's are broken, and to further extend a relationship with these broken people, would have been miserable for everyone, including our children.

You sound like a good, honest, caring person. You will find someone that will appreciate, respect, and love you unconditionally. 

You will no longer be someone elses punching bag.


----------



## BetrayedDad

So it's been a while and I just wanted to give an update. I'll try to keep it brief.

I've been doing really well. Happiest, I've probably been in a long time. Everyday that passes I feel more like my old self again. Works going well, I'm adjusting to my new routine being by myself and it's kind of awesome, not gonna lie. Kids have kept me pretty occupied. Looking forward to meeting up with my close friends a few times this summer. Been working out like a fiend. Between all that, I've been really busy in a good way. 

I ended up downloading a dating app and went on about different 6 dates. I can't believe how easy it is to get dates and how many nice girls there are out there falling over themselves to find a decent guy like me. During that time frame I met a girl I am crazy about. We've been dating for about a month now and it's been nothing but awesome. I haven't felt this way about someone in a long time.

The ex is still broken and I see her for the POS she is now. She has the stank of desperation everytime she comes around my house and frankly I don't care at all what happens to her anymore. She did nothing but poison my soul and divorcing her was the best decision I've ever made. 

Thank you TAM community for all the awesome advice I received. I followed a lot of it and most of you couldn't have been more right about the way everything turned out. And for those BS newly suffering, take the advice you're given. I promise the grass IS greener on the other side!


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> So it's been a while and I just wanted to give an update. I'll try to keep it brief.
> 
> I've been doing really well. Happiest, I've probably been in a long time. Everyday that passes I feel more like my old self again. Works going well, I'm adjusting to my new routine being by myself and it's kind of awesome, not gonna lie. Kids have kept me pretty occupied. Looking forward to meeting up with my close friends a few times this summer. Been working out like a fiend. Between all that, I've been really busy in a good way.
> 
> I ended up downloading a dating app and went on about different 6 dates. I can't believe how easy it is to get dates and how many nice girls there are out there falling over themselves to find a decent guy like me. During that time frame I met a girl I am crazy about. We've been dating for about a month now and it's been nothing but awesome. I haven't felt this way about someone in a long time.
> 
> The ex is still broken and I see her for the POS she is now. She has the stank of desperation everytime she comes around my house and frankly I don't care at all what happens to her anymore. She did nothing but poison my soul and divorcing her was the best decision I've ever made.
> 
> Thank you TAM community for all the awesome advice I received. I followed a lot of it and most of you couldn't have been more right about the way everything turned out. And for those BS newly suffering, take the advice you're given. I promise the grass IS greener on the other side!


Good to hear BD, I can't wait until I can remove the "feelings" I still have for WW. It's like trying to remove something that I can't but want to. Sucks big time.


----------



## harrybrown

You deserve some happiness after all that you had to face.

So glad that you are doing better. Hope the new situation works out great.

Still sorry that you had to have such pain, but it looks like 2014 will be a better year than last year.

Way to go.


----------



## bandit.45

BD I'm happy for you man. Your ex is truly a disturbed and broken woman and it warms my heart to know you have removed her cancerous influence from your life. 

Is she still throwing it out there, enjoying her promiscuity?


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> Is she still throwing it out there, enjoying her promiscuity?


Far as I know, she's still hooking up with the 25 yr old cause she can't be alone. She pretends (I think even to herself) that it's more than what it really is. At the same time, everytime she comes over my house to pick up or drop off the kids, she's super nice to me like she wants to be my buddy and throws me flirty looks. She just stinks of desperation and it's sad more than anything. Like has a lost puppy dog vibe to her. Hope she lives with that burden for the rest of her life.

My conscious is clear, I feel like I just ditched a sack of bricks I've been carrying around for 8 years. The best part is my girlfriend is a total upgrade all around. Score!


----------



## GusPolinski

BetrayedDad said:


> My conscious is clear, I feel like I just ditched a sack of bricks I've been carrying around for 8 years. The best part is my girlfriend is a total upgrade all around. Score!


:smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

Awesimmmmm......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

I'd say you have reached 50,000 ft and beyond.


----------



## LongWalk

Hope she cleaned the bedspread.


----------



## WhiteRaven

BetrayedDad said:


> So it's been a while and I just wanted to give an update. I'll try to keep it brief.
> 
> I've been doing really well. Happiest, I've probably been in a long time. Everyday that passes I feel more like my old self again. Works going well, I'm adjusting to my new routine being by myself and it's kind of awesome, not gonna lie. Kids have kept me pretty occupied. Looking forward to meeting up with my close friends a few times this summer. Been working out like a fiend. Between all that, I've been really busy in a good way.
> 
> I ended up downloading a dating app and went on about different 6 dates. I can't believe how easy it is to get dates and how many nice girls there are out there falling over themselves to find a decent guy like me. During that time frame I met a girl I am crazy about. We've been dating for about a month now and it's been nothing but awesome. I haven't felt this way about someone in a long time.
> 
> The ex is still broken and I see her for the POS she is now. She has the stank of desperation everytime she comes around my house and frankly I don't care at all what happens to her anymore. She did nothing but poison my soul and divorcing her was the best decision I've ever made.
> 
> Thank you TAM community for all the awesome advice I received. I followed a lot of it and most of you couldn't have been more right about the way everything turned out. And for those BS newly suffering, take the advice you're given. I promise the grass IS greener on the other side!


So......

What's the score?


----------



## BetrayedDad

WhiteRaven said:


> So......
> 
> What's the score?


Far as I'm concerned, life's a marathon. She may have got a head start when I wasn't looking but so far I'm winning the race and the best revenge I'll get will be when I finish first.


----------



## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> Far as I'm concerned, life's a marathon. She may have got a head start when I wasn't looking but so far I'm winning the race and the best revenge I'll get will be when I finish first.


I think they will find her at mile sixteen curled up unconscious in the gutter.


----------



## LongWalk

Come on, Bandit. We're all rooting for B'Dad but there is no need to wish the cheating ex more misery. She is not doing well and we can leave it at that.


----------



## SF-FAN

LongWalk said:


> Come on, Bandit. We're all rooting for B'Dad but there is no need to wish the cheating ex more misery. She is not doing well and we can leave it at that.


I agree with bandit. Forgive but don't forget. All WWs know what they're doing when they do it. They cause misery without disregard for their spouses so let them feel as much misery as possible for their actions, especially if they broke up a family with their actions.


----------



## illwill

SF-FAN said:


> I agree with bandit. Forgive but don't forget. All WWs know what they're doing when they do it. They cause misery without disregard for their spouses so let them feel as much misery as possible for their actions, especially if they broke up a family with their actions.


Justice.


----------



## LongWalk

Who in their right mind wants the mother of their children to be a head case?

Not smart.

Anger and disappointment are natural and healthy. At a certain point pity and indifference are better.

Of course, consequences are in order. Moreover the BS has no responsibility to save their exWW. However, in the interests of your children, there is no need to kick them.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Need some advice.

So I went to my young daughter's ballet recital and the ex was there. Anyway after the rectical I told my daughter I was going to take her out to eat to celibrate her awesome performance. The next day at soccer practice I see my ex again. She tells me she was, "Hurt yesterday that I didn't invite her to attend also". This woman still wants to play house even though we are divorced. I was basically like, "No offense but we need some boundries and that would just confuse the kids." 

So her way of retaliating to me was to introduce them to her rebound boyfriend. We had discussed prior only introducing the kids to serious relationships to avoid having a string of people in and out of their lives. (Apparently she sees a long term prospect being an almost 40 years old dating a 25 yr old... idiot) It's OBVIOUS she only did it to get back at me since she knows the only thing I care about are the kids and she had told me no more than a week ago she was going to wait until the end of the summer at least. Whatever, I know I have no say in the matter but I just don't want my kids to get hurt if they get attached cause this relationship she's in is a trainwreck in the making. It's not if, it's when he dumps her.

So that's the backstory. Now this is my question...

We do pick ups and drop offs mostly at my house. I'm fairly sure this a$$ clown was with them in the car when she went to drop them off. She was trying to ambush me. I wasn't home. She MAY attempt to do this again in the future. I DO NOT want this toolbag even in my driveway. But I'm not sure how to communicate that because I know she's only doing it to try to get a rise out of me. And I DON'T want to give her the satisfaction. 

So do I:

A) Tell her don't bring this guy around my house (which may give her some satisfaction that it got to me)

B) Completely ignore it and just suck it up. (Which really annoys me that some douche is on my property)

C) Propose from now on we meet in a neutral location (which is the same problem as item A and doesn't mean he still won't be there)


Some other option? How do I handle this?


----------



## GusPolinski

B is probably the best option of the three. Another option might be you picking them up from her. But, even then, remember to (try to) project an aura of cool detachment.


----------



## Lostinthought61

I would suggest C, and you might tell her that given some changes in your life (do not elaborate) that you feel it is best if you meet at a neutral location...and find someplace in between....shopping mall.


----------



## LongWalk

She is a mess. Getting into conflicts with doesn't get you anywhere. The big problem, she introduced her temporary SO to your children, cannot be undone. If he is jerk enough to want to come on to your property in the car, then it shows that he is a tool in her hands. In which case the relationship may last longer than one would expect, i.e., in exchange for pvssy, he's willing to be under her thumb.

You are right that he will dump her sooner or later.

I would just ignore him if he comes round. Look straight through him. If he tries to introduce himself, don't ackknowledge him. He will look small and weak on your territory and the joy of carting him round will evaporate for your ex.

Hang in there for your kids. Stay calm, aloof. Gus is right on this.

The GoodGuy's ex went bankrupt and attempted suicide. What can he do? She drinks. Self destruction is her occupation. Her boyfriend had to call him to get him to pick his daughter because mom was taken away in an ambulance.

How much you interact with your ex depends on your strength. If being around causes pain, then just keep her at a distance. If you feel strong, you can interact at school functions, sporting events, musical performances etc. Just keep it light.

Your ex now cares way more about what you think of her than visa versa. If inviting her to have an ice cream with the kids after some event won't trigger you, then you can do it so that she gets a reward for good behavior. This assumes you have reached a certain level of detachment. Giving mommy an ice cream or a piece of pizza doesn't mean you are reconciling. If you can tolerate your ex at some level, it will make your kids feel more secure. They hate war between their parents.

A key to measure how detached you are: if you see her eating the ice cream and you resent every lick, then you are not there yet.


----------



## turnera

I'd invite some hot woman friend to come over and be hanging out with you on the porch when she comes.


----------



## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> I'd invite some hot woman friend to come over and be hanging out with you on the porch when she comes.


There it is! Option D! 

Or Hell, while you're at it, Double D!


----------



## tom67

BD I would go with B and ignore no emotion but not being an @sshat just all business.
I suggest you carry a VAR when meeting her she may get idiot bf to try and start something at least then if the cops show up they can listen and arrest him.


----------



## tom67

turnera said:


> I'd invite some hot woman friend to come over and be hanging out with you on the porch when she comes.


----------



## BetrayedDad

LongWalk said:


> Your ex now cares way more about what you think of her than visa versa. If inviting her to have an ice cream with the kids after some event won't trigger you, then you can do it so that she gets a reward for good behavior. This assumes you have reached a certain level of detachment. Giving mommy an ice cream or a piece of pizza doesn't mean you are reconciling. If you can tolerate your ex at some level, it will make your kids feel more secure. They hate war between their parents.
> 
> A key to measure how detached you are: if you see her eating the ice cream and you resent every lick, then you are not there yet.


I don't know what it means but I really just don't want to be her friend or even pretend to be. I've never been good at hiding my disdain for people. If I don't like you, you can probably tell. I don't see my attitude ever changing. If she got hit by a bus tomorrow, I couldn't care any less. What makes me angry is the way she tries to use our kids as emotional pawns. She has no regard for their mental well being. I don't like this boyfriend because he clearly doesn't give a crap about my kids. So no, I don't think I'd ever want to have ice cream with her or even someone like her. I don't know if that's a "detachment" issue as much as it is a "not wanting to hang out with trashy people" issue.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Be indifferent to her. Act like her choices don't matter to you coz she doesn't. Act so involved with your kids that you didn't even notice her existence. If she feels nothing she does matters to you, she'd mind her ways.


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> I'd invite some hot woman friend to come over and be hanging out with you on the porch when she comes.
> 
> 
> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> There it is! Option D!
> 
> Or Hell, while you're at it, Double D!
Click to expand...

Well my girlfriend is hot AND coincidentally is a DD.

We did discuss meeting each others kids and mutually decided to wait until the relationship deepened. There's plenty of time for that and it's been less than 2 months. I'm not going to stoop to her level and play her games. My kids come first and when I feel like they are ready I will make the introduction. They are still very young.


----------



## bandit.45

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't know what it means but I really just don't want to be her friend or even pretend to be. I've never been good at hiding my disdain for people. If I don't like you, you can probably tell. I don't see my attitude ever changing. If she got hit by a bus tomorrow, I couldn't care any less. What makes me angry is the way she tries to use our kids as emotional pawns. She has no regard for their mental well being. I don't like this boyfriend because he clearly doesn't give a crap about my kids. So no, I don't think I'd ever want to have ice cream with her or even someone like her. I don't know if that's a "detachment" issue as much as it is a "not wanting to hang out with trashy people" issue.


The clincher for my ex was when I told her. "You know....if I saw you get run over by a cement truck, I'd drop whatever I was doing, run across the street to where your mangled body lay, step over it and run to the truck driver to make sure he wasn't hurt."

That pretty much ended any ideas she had about being "friends".


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> The clincher for my ex was when I told her. "You know....if I saw you get run over by a cement truck, I'd drop whatever I was doing, run across the street to where your mangled body lay, run past it and over to the truck driver to make sure he wasn't hurt."
> 
> That pretty much ended any ideas she had about being "friends".


LOL. Damn.


----------



## happyman64

BetrayedDad

Suck it up. Put a big smile on your face.

ANd when the kids get out of the car, lean into her window and ask her if her STD test came back yet.

Because you need to know if "you" are in the clear.

Then smile to both of them and wish them a nice day.

That is how you handle her bringing her boy toy around you and your kids.

I'm sure the gang can think of a few more parting shots that will take care of your issue.

HM


----------



## GusPolinski

happyman64 said:


> ANd when the kids get out of the car, lean into her window and ask her if her STD test came back yet.
> 
> Because you need to know if "you" are in the clear.
> 
> Then smile to both of them and wish them a nice day.


Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn...


----------



## WhiteRaven

bandit.45 said:


> The clincher for my ex was when I told her. "You know....if I saw you get run over by a cement truck, I'd drop whatever I was doing, run across the street to where your mangled body lay, step over it and run to the truck driver to make sure he wasn't hurt."


Shouldn't you stop and pee on her corpse? :rofl:


----------



## happyman64

bandit.45 said:


> The clincher for my ex was when I told her. "You know....if I saw you get run over by a cement truck, I'd drop whatever I was doing, run across the street to where your mangled body lay, step over it and run to the truck driver to make sure he wasn't hurt."
> 
> That pretty much ended any ideas she had about being "friends".


I remember your Ex. It would be a lot easier to dump her broken body into her camaro/mustang and ask the driver to fill it with cement.

Right up to her neck.

Then we would all be safe Bandito!


----------



## SF-FAN

WhiteRaven said:


> Be indifferent to her. Act like her choices don't matter to you coz she doesn't. Act so involved with your kids that you didn't even notice her existence. If she feels nothing she does matters to you, she'd mind her ways.


Only problem is her choices do and should matter to BD when it comes to his kids. I wouldn't want my WW introducing any other POS to my kids, especially if I knew he wouldn't treat them right or it was just one of her many BFs. I would tell her straight out, "I don't give a rats ass what you do with your miserable love life, but do not bring my kids into it."


----------



## BetrayedDad

SF-FAN said:


> I would tell her straight out, "I don't give a rats ass what you do with your miserable love life, but do not bring my kids into it."


And there's the rub... Because they want to spite you and they know you don't give a crap about them. So when you tell them that, you basically give them the blueprint for how they can stick it to you. When you reject them they have no incentive left to do what you wish. Quite the opposite in fact.

These selfish WS's don't care about how their actions affect the kids. No my friend, that's no deterrent because if they did they wouldn't of had affair(s) in the first place. The kids are just another tool in their war chest.


----------



## WillinTampa

BetrayedDad said:


> I recently found out my wife has been sleeping with her boss (how cliche) for the last six months. She doesn't know I know yet but she suspects something is wrong. (I'm not a pathelogical liar like she is and can't hide my emotions as well.)
> 
> My attorney basically told me it would be in my best interest, and in getting joint custody of my children, to do this as civilized as possible. He told me to wait until the next marriage counselling session, which is a week from now  and announce it to her then.
> 
> The boss is married so I really want to tell his wife (who just had a baby not long ago mind you) but I'm hesitant now because it will only piss her off and drag this out longer than it needs to be. He said if I decide to make this ugly from the get go then it will cost me big down the road.
> 
> Suggestions? If I report them to the bosses wife and their HR dept will it be worth the blowback of a custody and house battle over a short term revenge gratification on my part? It's killing me trying to be the bigger person when I was being treated like a jerk for so long.


Listen to your lawyer and keep it civilized.

You can stick it to the boss guy later. 

.


----------



## harrybrown

I was hoping she would put the safety of her children over her own selfish feelings. 

I do not know anything about her 25 year old boyfriend, but some "boyfriends" are abusive to children that are not their own.

She should never leave them alone with him, when she is not there.

I thought she might have had some morals to protect her children. I have had too many experiences of reports that I get about their abuse of these children.

I think my view is tainted because of the reports that I get, but I can't believe how the woman in the relationship thinks that she can trust her daughter (or her son) around her boyfriend that she knows so little of his background.

Can your kids wear a VAR whenever they have to be around him? You do need to try to protect them. The kids are innocent. 

Sorry should not have started down my own trigger of wanting kids protected. 

Hope they are safe.


----------



## dubsey

Just suck it up. if she pushes for any kind of reaction, just shrug and say "I'm happy for ya. Good luck with that."


----------



## BetrayedDad

harrybrown said:


> I was hoping she would put the safety of her children over her own selfish feelings.


Me too... Disappointed but not surprised. I will be monitoring my kids VERY closely and if I so much as get a hint of anything amiss, I will do everything in my power to intervene. This dad don't f*** around.


----------



## SF-FAN

BetrayedDad said:


> And there's the rub... Because they want to spite you and they know you don't give a crap about them. So when you tell them that, you basically give them the blueprint for how they can stick it to you. When you reject them they have no incentive left to do what you wish. Quite the opposite in fact.
> 
> *These selfish WS's don't care about how their actions affect the kids. No my friend, that's no deterrent because if they did they wouldn't of had affair(s) in the first place. The kids are just another tool in their war chest*.


I guess you make a good point. My WW still thinks she's the mother of the year because she says the A did not have anything to do with the kids, only us as a couple. She says she'll do anything for her kids therefore she may be a horrible wife but is a great mother - plus her "educated" sister agreed with her.

I responded by telling her, "oh really, so while you were getting screwed by the POSOM, were you thinking about our kids' games you were missing?" Even still didn't register with her that she was a horrible mother for doing what she did.

I'd demand that no POSOM come near my kids. God forbid she bring in some pedofile or mentally unstable murderer and I lose any of my kids.


----------



## Augusto

I think that it is time for you to gain full custody. I know you probably do not want to go this route but you may have to start documenting things now for court purposes. Time to keep your children away from her lifestyle. It will hurt the children more if this keeps going.


----------



## harrybrown

BetrayedDad said:


> Me too... Disappointed but not surprised. I will be monitoring my kids VERY closely and if I so much as get a hint of anything amiss, I will do everything in my power to intervene. This dad don't f*** around.


I totally agree with the last sentence.

Best of happiness and I can see it coming soon.

Keep up the good work.


----------



## Chuck71

5 star blog......... BD hope you are doing well! :smthumbup:


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chuck71 said:


> 5 star blog......... BD hope you are doing well! :smthumbup:


Thanks for bumping Chuck. I've been debating for a while whether to post an update. Not sure if the interest was there. I'm much much better than I was. Not 100% but it's only been a year and a half so I figure it will still take some time. I have great days and no so great days. That's my mental issue and I'm still working on but I see continued improvement for sure.

Been going to the gym a lot. Constantly sore from that but in a good way. Busy at work and between the kids and my girlfriend I don't have a lot of time for me. Finances are still tight because of only having one income but I'm getting by okay. That should improve substantially next year when I get some bills paid off.

I've been dating the same girl going on a year this May. We met through tinder. It's definitely has it's ups and downs. Some of that is me being very guarded with my emotions because of getting burned by the ex. The other is her wanting to escalate the relationship faster than I would care too. She's head over heels with me and a bit on the needy side. 

I'm in no rush to get remarried and she doesn't want to be in a relationship if it's not going anywhere so... it's tough. Yes, I definitely will eventually want to settle down again but after 10 years of marriage and nothing to show for it. I'm certainly going to take my time. I hoping she can be patient. 

Ex turns 40 next month and is still with the 25 year old boy toy shockingly enough. He wasn't the OM, as far as I know that ended. My kids don't seem to mind him and he seems harmless enough the few times our paths crossed, so whatever. It keeps her distracted and that's best for me. My girlfriend helped me set up strong boundaries with her and for now she seems to have accepted we are done. 

She tried to come after me for money six months ago but has no leg to stand on legally based on the paperwork. When I wrote up the divorce decree I made sure it was highly in my favor. Thank god she's such a lazy idiot. It would cost her easily thousands, she doesn't have in legal fees, to fight it. She lacks the will to bother putting the effort in much everything else in her life.

So the verbal comprise was, instead of 50/50. I would pay most of the kids bills directly. In exchange, I don't have to give some POS cheater a dime of my money to spend on herself in the guise of being "for the kids". The thought of doing that would make me sick to my stomach. At least I KNOW my kids are solely benefiting from my money. They will get everything when I die anyway so I consider it an advance on their future investment lol.

I also spend a lot of time on TAM. Probably too much in all honestly but it's still helpful and therapeutic to me to read other's peoples stories and takes on their relationships. I learned ALOT coming here and it still breaks my heart when I read lost souls doing all the wrong things to fix their relationships. If one person is helped by reading my thread, then it was completely worth the time it took to write it.


----------



## bfree

Good update and glad you're doing okay BD. And here's a little tidbit that I know you're already aware of. All women are a bit on the needy side. It's part of their charm...lol


----------



## RespectWalk

It sounds like you're finding your inner alpha male. Good for you brother! Too many chicken sh*t betas out there that have been raised wrong and beaten down by our liberal culture into being doormats. Don't ever backslide my man, you're doing great!


----------



## Clay2013

It sounds like your doing good. There is no doubt its going to take time. Its been years for me and I am still guarded to some degree as well. I have been very fortunate I have a very understanding wife now and she has been wonderful in helping me. 

Take your time and as times goes on you will care less and less about what the ex does. My xW recently cheated and left the guy she was cheating on me with. It all comes around and they will get theirs in time. 

Clay


----------



## Chuck71

If you aren't ready, you aren't. My post-D g/f was the same way.

She wanted M and I was not for it..... then. 

We parted ways but that is another story.

Implement what you learned. 

She sounds like a great gal.... just tread cautiously


----------



## Broken at 20

Dude. 

You met a chick on Tinder? An app designed for easy hook-ups? 

And she is wanting a relationship. And commitment. 

And you married a woman that had an affair. So...let's just say, you don't have the best track record for judging character. 


Hm...

Need me to draw you a picture?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Broken at 20 said:


> You met a chick on Tinder? An app designed for easy hook-ups?


No, it's an app designed for DATING. Have you even used tinder? I went on a 1/2 dozen dates using it and not one girl was looking for "an easy hookup". Do you really believe there is some magic app that you just swipe right, text "let's bang" and the girls like "sure what time should I come over?" 

Though it made for great conversation when they would tell me the idiotic things creeper guys would tell them. It actually worked in my favor coming off like a normal person. Try it some time.



Broken at 20 said:


> Need me to draw you a picture?


No thanks, I know what trolling a thread looks like.


----------



## imjustwatching

BetrayedDad said:


> No, it's an app designed for DATING. Have you even used tinder? I went on a 1/2 dozen dates using it and not one girl was looking for "an easy hookup". Do you really believe there is some magic app that you just swipe right, text "let's bang" and the girls like "sure what time should I come over?"
> 
> Though it made for great conversation when they would tell me the idiotic things creeper guys would tell them. It actually worked in my favor coming off like a normal person. Try it some time.
> 
> 
> 
> No thanks, I know what trolling a thread looks like.


actually he is right tinder is an easy hook-up app


----------



## Chuck71

Sadly any app that has more than two people on it... is termed a hook up site.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s.... I don't even own a smartphone. Didn't need it

all my previous years.... why now? But that's just me.

BD..... she is pushing for a deeper commitment to better obtain the security she 

seeks with you. Remember..... women want security. Just be blunt with her...

women do respect honesty, even if they don't agree. The very same thing 

happened with my last g/f back in 2013. 110% similar.


----------



## manticore

dude you don't know how much I like you, you are one of the few cases that makes worth all the other dissapointments with bss where they return with their serial cheaters, we can not advice you regarding the future (with your gf) whatever you do I hope you have the best outcome, just remember that just as there are good men like you there are also good women out there, o don't let your past experience define all your future


----------



## warlock07

BD, Tinder is a hook up app. Atleast that is what people seem to use it mostly for these days. ******* seems to be the more traditional dating app


----------



## BetrayedDad

warlock07 said:


> BD, Tinder is a hook up app. Atleast that is what people seem to use it mostly for these days. ******* seems to be the more traditional dating app


I don't want to derail my thread anymore with a dating discussion in Coping with Infidelity. There's another forum for that.

My final point is this. Tinder, just like PoF, *******, Match, et. al. are whatever you make of them. ALL those sites have people looking to hookup and also people wanting to date.

I did not go on there looking for a hookup. Neither did my girlfriend or any of the girls I went out on a date with (at least that's what they adamantly told me.) I'm sure people do hookup there all the time, no doubt, just like the other sites I listed. 

All these dating sites do is "introduce" you to people. Nothing more. What you do after that is up to you. Just cause a girl is on Tinder doesn't mean I'm going to assume the worst about them. My personal experience on there was actually pretty good and I never really had a "bad date". At worse, we didn't click and that was the end of it. 

So whatever.... moving on.


----------



## BetrayedDad

manticore said:


> dude you don't know how much I like you, you are one of the few cases that makes worth all the other dissapointments with bss where they return with their serial cheaters, we can not advice you regarding the future (with your gf) whatever you do I hope you have the best outcome, just remember that just as there are good men like you there are also good women out there, so don't let your past experience define all your future


I appreciated all the advice you gave on my thread Manticore. I remember you being one of the best contributors to my thread and you, like many others, were right all along. I knew in my heart what had to be done but sometimes, when the anger passes and your head is a mess from the chaos you didn't ask for, you just want that reassurance from others that you are doing the right thing because you just can't think straight.

Thank you for taking the time to post and help me.


----------



## Chuck71

BD...... I don't know how I missed your thread. SMH. You gave many chances

and when you knew enough was enough, you pulled the trigger. Yes... it is

always good to bounce your thoughts and ideas off others. When I blew things up

with my last g/f, I called a TAM friend and ran everything down to him.

I wanted to make sure I was not asking or expecting too much. I wasn't.

Talking to him helped me from second guessing myself down the road.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Tired of wondering what if... Been divorced for about a year and a half now. I've had this question eating away at me in the back of my mind since I found out about her affairs. What if one of my kids ain't mine? Could it be possible? 

I couldn't take it anymore. I bought a DNA test and mailed it out yesterday. I'll know in a week. In all honesty, my son is not exactly the spitting image of me and my daughter, while she looks a lot more like me, was conceived potentially between affairs. So both are suspect. Ex swore they were mine. What's the word of a serial cheat worth? Nothing... 

I don't know what I would do if I found out otherwise. Everyone I know has advised me not to do it. That it doesn't matter and I should let it go. I can't live a lie. I will not be played for an ignorant fool any longer. If I were to decide to raise another man's child, it will be knowingly. Time to find out how deep the rabbit hole really goes. Wish me luck.


----------



## workindad

BD, good luck. I've been in your shoes and it was money well spent.

Post a follow up when you find out.

Peace
WD


----------



## cgiles

Good luck.

I think those who told you to don't test doesn't know your pain, and how it rottens you inside.

There is the full medical aspect too. If one of your child is not biologically yours, it would be good to know who you need to abduct and takes his kydney for save your kid.


----------



## bfree

BD, I pray you receive the results you are looking for and that you can find peace.


----------



## gouge_away

I've been there, bro. I remember staring intensely at my then 4year old son's face, trying to pick apart and distinguish his features.

When that test came back 99.999998% positive match, I'll never have that feeling again in my life. Its worth the high!


----------



## happyman64

You know BD I remember how your wife reacted to exposure and then divorce.

I think you have no choice to get them tested.

Interesting enough the 4th comment in your original thread suggested you get the kids DNA tested.

What is your Exwife like now?

Is she a good mom? A good coparent?

Has she already moved on?

I hope you can move forward after the DNA testing.

HM


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

BetrayedDad said:


> Tired of wondering what if... Been divorced for about a year and a half now. I've had this question eating away at me in the back of my mind since I found out about her affairs. What if one of my kids ain't mine? Could it be possible?
> 
> I couldn't take it anymore. I bought a DNA test and mailed it out yesterday. I'll know in a week. In all honesty, my son is not exactly the spitting image of me and my daughter, while she looks a lot more like me, was conceived potentially between affairs. So both are suspect. Ex swore they were mine. What's the word of a serial cheat worth? Nothing...
> 
> I don't know what I would do if I found out otherwise. Everyone I know has advised me not to do it. That it doesn't matter and I should let it go. I can't live a lie. I will not be played for an ignorant fool any longer. If I were to decide to raise another man's child, it will be knowingly. Time to find out how deep the rabbit hole really goes. Wish me luck.


The depths of the evil of a woman that does this is indescribable. I hope they are your children. I do not know what I would do if I found my beautiful son and daughter, that I have poured all of myself, given all of myself, loved absolutely, were not my own. I think I would go insane. It would end me. Paternity testing MUST be made mandatory at birth, it is disgusting that it is not. So much pain, so much anguish, and grief, and trauma, could be stopped with such a simple test.


----------



## GusPolinski

BetrayedDad said:


> Tired of wondering what if... Been divorced for about a year and a half now. I've had this question eating away at me in the back of my mind since I found out about her affairs. What if one of my kids ain't mine? Could it be possible?
> 
> I couldn't take it anymore. I bought a DNA test and mailed it out yesterday. I'll know in a week. In all honesty, my son is not exactly the spitting image of me and my daughter, while she looks a lot more like me, was conceived potentially between affairs. So both are suspect. Ex swore they were mine. What's the word of a serial cheat worth? Nothing...
> 
> I don't know what I would do if I found out otherwise. *Everyone I know has advised me not to do it.* That it doesn't matter and I should let it go. I can't live a lie. I will not be played for an ignorant fool any longer. If I were to decide to raise another man's child, it will be knowingly. Time to find out how deep the rabbit hole really goes. Wish me luck.


I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of this "everyone" is composed of either (a) women, (b) men that have never felt any legitimate reason to question the paternity of their own children, or (c) men who don't have children.

And good luck to you, BD. I truly do hope they're both yours.


----------



## Roselyn

Woman here. I'm glad that you went ahead and got the DNA test. You deserve to know the truth if your children are yours. Your children need to know the truth as well as medical reasons could come up and they'll need to know their medical history. It is up to you on how you will deal with the results. I wish you the best with your children.


----------



## Chuck71

BD..... ok I'll ask. What if one or both are not yours? Either way it goes.... you're much better

off with them regardless, than being with your former battle ax


----------



## MattMatt

Whatever happens we will be here for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm torn because while your 100% right, she could make me getting custody a nightmare, because I drove her fling away.
> 
> All I care about now are the children.


BD biology aside

This

You are the Dad they know and love

You will figure it out of that I am sure

55


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't know what I would do if I found out otherwise.


I know what you're going to do. You're going to love them the same as you do now. The results of the DNA test won't change that.



BetrayedDad said:


> If I were to decide to raise another man's child, it will be knowingly.


It happens happens every day, to millions of parents that adopted. I know, if you're not the bio dad, you didn't elect to adopt. My point is these adopted kids have parents that love them no different then if they were their bio-dad/mom. And these sons and daughters love them back in the same way.

I know because I've met and befriended dozens of the adopted over the years and their relationships with their parents are no different than if they had been "bio" connected.

The biggest difference that I see is in medical forecasting. It's good to know if you are genetically predisposed to certain ailments/conditions. If you did find out that one of your kids is not yours in the bio sense, your ex would be wise to get the genetic and medical history from the "donor" OM.

If his family is predisposed towards some type of cancer, etc., having that info could end up saving one of the kids lives...


----------



## Chuck71

Well said, GP..... very well said


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

I would do the same as you. Best wishes!


----------



## bandit.45

Good luck BD. 

Remember, any doofus retard can father a child. It takes a real man to be a dad.


----------



## RWB

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Paternity testing MUST be made mandatory at birth, it is disgusting that it is not. So much pain, so much anguish, and grief, and trauma, could be stopped with such a simple test.


Agreed, 

Just as with a Pre-Nup. DNA Paternity should be a mandatory standard in the pre-nup.


----------



## BetrayedDad

happyman64 said:


> You know BD I remember how your wife reacted to exposure and then divorce.
> 
> I think you have no choice to get them tested.


From day 1, she trickle truthed the hell out of me. I have no reason to believe this would be any different. You're right, she would never voluntarily tell me, I had no choice.



happyman64 said:


> What is your Exwife like now?


Sad... Pretends to be happy when she stinks of pitifulness.



happyman64 said:


> Is she a good mom?


She tries to be. The bar is set pretty low with her. I do most of the actual parenting.



happyman64 said:


> A good coparent?


I bite my tongue and we get along for the sake of the children.



happyman64 said:


> Has she already moved on?


I made it abundantly clear we will never be again. Whether she has accepted that or even cares who knows. My guess is she's only sad she lost her cozy little setup.


----------



## BetrayedDad

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> The biggest difference that I see is in medical forecasting. It's good to know if you are genetically predisposed to certain ailments/conditions. If you did find out that one of your kids is not yours in the bio sense, your ex would be wise to get the genetic and medical history from the "donor" OM.
> 
> If his family is predisposed towards some type of cancer, etc., having that info could end up saving one of the kids lives...


Many of you have brought up the medical angle. If I found out otherwise, it's not like I'm going to knock on the guy's door and ask him to fill out a medical history questionnaire. I'm not even sure I would tell ex I know right away. What if she tells this guy and all kinds of custody issues start up? It might be opening up a Pandora's Box of problems for me. I just want to know the truth for me. I would also tell the child(ren) eventually. Makes me SICK to think it could be both for all I know.


----------



## Dogbert

BetrayedDad said:


> Many of you have brought up the medical angle. If I found out otherwise, it's not like I'm going to knock on the guy's door and ask him to fill out a medical history questionnaire. I'm not even sure I would tell ex I know right away. *What if she tells this guy and all kinds of custody issues start up? It might be opening up a Pandora's Box of problems for me*. I just want to know the truth for me. I would also tell the child(ren) eventually. Makes me SICK to think it could be both for all I know.


Seriously? As crude as it may sound but most OM just want to get their rocks off with a married woman. If she gets pregnant, they usually high tail it out of town for fear of getting the crap beaten out of by the betrayed husband and/or being slapped with child support for 18 years. An extremely few OM do want to be fathers to their children but they usually want the married woman to leave her husband. Somehow I don't think you'll have to worry about this been the case.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Dogbert said:


> Seriously? As crude as it may sound but most OM just want to get their rocks off with a married woman. If she gets pregnant, they usually high tail it out of town for fear of getting the crap beaten out of by the betrayed husband and/or being slapped with child support for 18 years.


OM maybe completely clueless for all I know. That wasn't the only scenario I was thinking of. Aside from that, if I told her there was DNA evidence, she may try to use it as some type of leverage to withhold access of the child. While I have legal custody now, there's no guarantee she couldn't try to fight it later on out of spite or as a manipulation tactic. Regardless, of whether it failed or not, it more trouble that's easily avoidable. 

Again, I'm doing it for me and hoping that this issue can finally be put to rest. Years later and I feel like I'm still mopping up the mess she made.



Dogbert said:


> An extremely few OM do want to be fathers to their children but they usually want the married woman to leave her husband. Somehow I don't think you'll have to worry about this been the case.


Me neither. Ex came to my house two weeks ago to pick up the kids and told me she swears she saw the OM was following her on the highway (must have recognized it easily from all the time she spent inside of it). Apparently, this freaked her out as she supposedly broke up with him over a year ago. Then she tells me, "Well good thing I was coming here..." Not really sure why as I would of just slammed the door on her face if he showed up.


----------



## Dogbert

BetrayedDad said:


> OM maybe completely clueless for all I know. That wasn't the only scenario I was thinking of. Aside from that, she may try to use it as some type of leverage to withhold access of the child. While I have legal custody now, there's no guarantee she couldn't try to fight it later on out of spite or as a manipulation tactic. Regardless, of whether it failed or not, it more trouble that's easily avoidable.
> 
> Again, I'm doing it for me and hoping that this issue can finally be put to rest. Years later and I feel like I'm still mopping up the mess she made.


In almost all States, a child that is born in a marriage is a child of the marriage. What this means is that the courts recognize a child, not biologically related to the husband, as that man's child. So even if she tried to disown you and the children from one another, the law won't let her because of the emotional bond created between child and father. This means your rights and responsibilities as a father are untouchable by her no matter what.


----------



## RV9

BetrayedDad said:


> Many of you have brought up the medical angle. If I found out otherwise, it's not like I'm going to knock on the guy's door and ask him to fill out a medical history questionnaire. I'm not even sure I would tell ex I know right away. What if she tells this guy and all kinds of custody issues start up? It might be opening up a Pandora's Box of problems for me. I just want to know the truth for me. I would also tell the child(ren) eventually. Makes me SICK to think it could be both for all I know.


Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


----------



## Lifescript

Good luck BD. I hope you get positive results.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I wasn't suggesting that you "knock on the guy's door" 

Your ex-wife would be the one to get the info. And I wouldn't worry to much if she were to find out that one of the kids was from a OM. Once you signed that birth certificate, you're the "Father" in the eyes of most courts in the US. Someone getting blind-sided by a negative paternity test, years after the birth won't change much in how the court views who the Father is.

The main reason is, I knew of a woman that was adopted. When she was 18 years old, her parents gave her the name of her biological mother. They told her to do this with information as she saw fit.

After about 6 months, she tracked down her bio-mom and set up a meeting. When they met, they talked for hours. One of the things this woman told her was that breast cancer had been a big issue. I don't on who's side, mother, or father, but she was told she should get screened every year.

Wouldn't you know it, two years later they found a lump. It was benign, but just her knowing that she needed to get checked regularly very well may have saved, or at least extended, her life.


----------



## BetrayedDad

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I wasn't suggesting that you "knock on the guy's door"
> 
> Your ex-wife would be the one to get the info.


Fat chance of that happening... In any event, I appreciate what you're saying. That would be the responsible thing to do on her part and the last thing she has been through all this is responsible.

Hopefully, it's a nonissue when I get the results back. The lab is still waiting for the samples I mailed. Should only take 2 days once they receive them.

Trying to be optimistic......


----------



## BetrayedDad

Thank god..... they are my kids!


----------



## Affaircare




----------



## RV9

So happy for you man...


----------



## just got it 55

betrayeddad said:


> thank god..... They are my kids!


You didn't need a science kit to know that BD



55


----------



## thatbpguy

Congrats BD. To have to raise someone else's kid would really be tough.


----------



## Dogbert

thatbpguy said:


> Congrats BD. To have to raise someone else's kid would really be tough.


As well as for the kids who had no say in who their parents turned out to be.


----------



## Chuck71

So much for that old saying "nice guys finish last" huh :smthumbup:


----------



## Chas

BD
In the chance that one of your children isn't yours it is helpful for their doctor to have both parents medical history to review for tendencies but it is not absolutely necessary. Doctors like to review for things like heart disease, various cancers, etc. The doc can provide good treatment without the history as millions of adopted kids will attest. It wouldn't be worth knocking on the other man's door to me.


----------



## jim123

BetrayedDad said:


> Thank god..... they are my kids!


Did you even think that you get congrats on your kids this long after they were born.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

That's great news BD!

What a relief.


----------



## bandit.45

Yeeeeehah!


----------



## bfree

Awesome BD. Another piece of the puzzle.


----------



## eastsouth2000

-can believe i read this from start to finish!

nice thread! wonder how is BD.

how are the kids and hows the new gf going.

sorry for necro but read it. and its good.


----------



## BetrayedDad

No worries, I don't mind the bumps or update requests.

I broke up with the gf after dating her for over a year. It was sad but needed to happen.

There wasn't any long term prospect in it, she was way too needy and we didn't get along.

So I'm single for now, going to take a break from dating and do me. I'm okay with the breakup.

Kids are good, starting school in a few weeks. Still doing 50% shared custody with them.

I actually see them more cause sometimes I work from home and I also get more time off.

Ex is still pathetic. She's still a lousy parent but she's getting more involved with them at least.

We ONLY discuss the kids and occasionally I have to reassert boundaries but the co-parenting is working.


----------



## rfisk

Hello BD. I'm a single man and have never been married. I visit this site to gain insight into marriage/infidelity. 

I just read this whole thread, in one sitting. Your story chilled me to the bone. When you had a paternity test done on your kids and it came back positive I started tearing up.

BD you have my admiration and undying respect.


----------



## BetrayedDad

rfisk said:


> Hello BD. I'm a single man and have never been married. I visit this site to gain insight into marriage/infidelity.
> 
> I just read this whole thread, in one sitting. Your story chilled me to the bone. When you had a paternity test done on your kids and it came back positive I started tearing up.
> 
> BD you have my admiration and undying respect.


Thank you for taking the time to read it and your kind words. It's the only thread I have ever started here on TAM. 

I leave it up in the hope that my story will help others going through the same ordeal. I was a confused BS once too.

Posting it was very therapeutic for me at the time. I'm in a far better place now fortunately. Best decision I ever made.


----------



## JohnA

Hi BD,

The one thing that struck me as odd about your thread was your coutinuing discussion of her social life after she moved out. Why ?


----------



## BetrayedDad

JohnA said:


> Hi BD,
> 
> The one thing that struck me as odd about your thread was your coutinuing discussion of her social life after she moved out. Why ?


Because I felt she should of been putting the needs of the kids FIRST. At one point, she was attempting to utilize me as her private babysitter just so should could go out on weekends. I had no problem watching them if she had a doctor's appointment etc. but just because your time with the kids falls on a Friday night is not a valid excuse to ask the other parent to cover. 

We were supposed to split our time 50/50 but in the beginning it was more like 70/30. My children were not blind to this either and it felt horrible every time they would asked me, "Why do we see you alot more than mom?" In hindsight, it's no shock a cheater would still put their needs above all else. I will say to her credit, she doesn't do that much anymore. Perhaps the single life novelty has worn off.


----------



## becareful2

How is your ex's life today, BetrayedDad? Has she stopped dropping hints that she wants to get back together with you?


----------



## BetrayedDad

becareful2 said:


> How is your ex's life today, BetrayedDad? Has she stopped dropping hints that she wants to get back together with you?


Yes. She has accepted it for quite some time now. 

She's still in the same crap apartment she moved into when she left. She can't afford anything more on her income anyway.

Still has the same boyfriend whose 15 yrs younger than her since OM dumped her 3 years ago surprisingly. I can only assume he's a user.

Far as I can tell, he moved in for financial reasons. He seems broke too. My kids like him so I'd rather it be him then some a$$hole I suppose.

She looks older, has definitely gained 20-30 lbs, always wears makeup now (didn't before) and generally continues to pretend she's happy. 

I'm pretty curt with her. Only dealing with her when absolutely necessary. My girlfriend says I should be nicer to her. Meh.... I don't think so.


----------



## ulyssesheart

BetrayedDad said:


> Yes. She has accepted it for quite some time now.
> 
> She's still in the same crap apartment she moved into when she left. She can't afford anything more on her income anyway.
> 
> *Still has the same boyfriend whose 15 yrs younger than her since OM dumped her 3 years ago surprisingly. I can only assume he's a user.
> *
> Far as I can tell, he moved in for financial reasons. He seems broke too. My kids like him so I'd rather it be him then some a$$hole I suppose.
> 
> She's looks older, has definitely gained 20-30 lbs, always wears makeup now (didn't before) and generally continues to pretend she's happy.
> 
> I'm pretty curt with her. Only dealing with her when absolutely necessary. My girlfriend says I should be nicer to her. Meh.... I don't think so.


Being younger he will eventually lose interest in her. Unless he wants a mother. She must be playing the role. Two wounded rabbits in a warren.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

I guess I never read through your thread BD. Glad it got bumped. Good to see another good dad out there doing well.


----------



## Chuck71

I remember reading yours back in '15..... you kicked arse....

We leave threads here for a reason.... as did mine.... 

My stories are still here to read...... from a guy who long died......


----------



## becareful2

BetrayedDad said:


> Yes. She has accepted it for quite some time now.
> 
> She's still in the same crap apartment she moved into when she left. She can't afford anything more on her income anyway.
> 
> Still has the same boyfriend whose 15 yrs younger than her since OM dumped her 3 years ago surprisingly. I can only assume he's a user.
> 
> Far as I can tell, he moved in for financial reasons. He seems broke too. My kids like him so I'd rather it be him then some a$$hole I suppose.
> 
> She looks older, has definitely gained 20-30 lbs, always wears makeup now (didn't before) and generally continues to pretend she's happy.
> 
> I'm pretty curt with her. Only dealing with her when absolutely necessary. My girlfriend says I should be nicer to her. Meh.... I don't think so.


Good for you. I assume the gf knows about your ex's infidelity and if she (the gf) ever cheats, you'd dump her, too.


----------



## BetrayedDad

becareful2 said:


> Good for you. I assume the gf knows about your ex's infidelity


Yes, we've been dating a year now and it was a question she had very early on. It's hard not to ask, sooooo why did you get divorced?



becareful2 said:


> and if she (the gf) ever cheats, you'd dump her, too.


She's well aware of my absolute zero tolerance policy. I think she realizes if I'm willing to divorce over it, then dumping a cheating girlfriend would be a cake walk.

She seems like a really great girl. I haven't seen a single red flag and she seems crazy into me. I'd be floored if she did at this juncture.


----------



## Chuck71

15 years.... WOW! How old are they? Yes I dated women 15-20 years older than me but I was in my early-mid 20s.

I just liked the maturity, no BS games, appreciated the little things... and yes, the constant sex was great too!

Heck my XW was seven years older than me. The last thing I needed was an older woman to play my mother.....

LOL my own mom was always into my schit enough.... but, that's what moms do I guess. If that guy is over 30,

then he is wanting a mother and.... "easy access" sex.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chuck71 said:


> 15 years.... WOW! How old are they? Yes I dated women 15-20 years older than me but I was in my early-mid 20s.
> 
> I just liked the maturity, no BS games, appreciated the little things... and yes, the constant sex was great too!
> 
> Heck my XW was seven years older than me. The last thing I needed was an older woman to play my mother.....
> 
> LOL my own mom was always into my schit enough.... but, that's what moms do I guess. If that guy is over 30,
> 
> then he is wanting a mother and.... "easy access" sex.


She's in her early 40s and he's in his late 20s. I'm not seeing the appeal.

Idk, I spent a decade with the woman and I'd say she was pretty frigid when it came to sex.

She might be putting out to keep him around but leopards don't change their spots.

Eventually she'll tire of the sharade. Personally, I'd rather they keep dating for as LONG as possible.

The distraction keeps her out of my business. I'm actually better off financially since she left.

I'd like to avoid court until the kids are 18 or close to it. Child support reassessments are always on the table.


----------



## Chuck71

No schit! Some females throw it out until they snare you and follow that up with "if you do xxxx,

I will give yyyyy." Those rarely end well. But she is his problem now, NOT yours.

In a way, the poor schit is helping you........


----------



## bandit.45

How does your current GF rate in the sex department compared to your ex?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chuck71 said:


> In a way, the poor schit is helping you........


I forget that sometimes because obviously I'd love to see her just lay down and rot.

But this is 100% true. Doing me a favor, poor bastard.



bandit.45 said:


> How does your current GF rate in the sex department compared to your ex?


Put it this way.... Every girl I have slept with since my ex has been WAY better. She was nothing special.

Obviously, different strengths and weaknesses in bed but just ALL so eager to have sex.

And maybe you all will think I'm crazy but I've told my current and ex girlfriend the same thing.

"I'm very HD and I need a lot of sex, I have no problem moving on if at any point that's an issue for you."

And I 100% mean it. Being single has taught me one thing. Too many women out there all to eager to get laid. 

Why the hell would I ever settle for crumbs again in a relationship when I can eat steak all the time?


----------



## threelittlestars

BetrayedDad said:


> I forget that sometimes because obviously I'd love to see her just lay down and rot.
> 
> But this is 100% true. Doing me a favor, poor bastard.
> 
> 
> 
> Put it this way.... Every girl I have slept with since my ex has been WAY better. She was nothing special.
> 
> Obviously, different strengths and weaknesses in bed but just ALL so eager to have sex.
> 
> And maybe you all will think I'm crazy but I've told my current and ex girlfriend the same thing.
> 
> "I'm very HD and I need a lot of sex, I have no problem moving on if at any point that's an issue for you."
> 
> And I 100% mean it. Being single has taught me one thing. Too many women out there all to eager to get laid.
> 
> Why the hell would I ever settle for crumbs again in a relationship when I can eat steak all the time?



Steak is great.... Just try not to make it all about sex. I know it obviously wasn't with your ex. She burned you. I know. She is a biotch... But i feel you are now emotionally more caught up in fulfilling a sex drive rather than a real nurturing LONG LASTING relationship. That is all i am getting from your last recent posts. 

But I'm so glad its been better in your life divorced. YOU DESERVE IT.


----------



## Chuck71

Egh schit....... he got banned. Hope it's a short one.....


----------



## Faithful Wife

threelittlestars said:


> Steak is great.... Just try not to make it all about sex. I know it obviously wasn't with your ex. She burned you. I know. She is a biotch... But i feel you are now emotionally more caught up in fulfilling a sex drive rather than a real nurturing LONG LASTING relationship. That is all i am getting from your last recent posts.
> 
> But I'm so glad its been better in your life divorced. YOU DESERVE IT.


I recently read through this whole thread for the first time. It was interesting to read Betrayed Dad's whole story. I was very touched by his early posts and how he really tried to act with dignity through this whole sh*t storm. I'm also very happy for him that he got out and is such a much better place.

I don't think Betrayed Dad is saying that it is "all about sex". He's just saying that any good relationship for him will always included a good sex life. That there is no reason to go forward with any potential partner if that part is missing.

But he's also learned, this isn't really a problem. Women want sex, a significant number of us also expect a good sex life as part of a good relationship, and it isn't that hard to find this if you are forthright about your expectations.

I agree with him that there's absolutely no reason to pursue someone if they don't understand and agree that great sex is a minimum requirement to be with him....and she should feel this for herself, too. Plenty of us do.


----------



## Chuck71

Like my grandma used to say..... sex is the egg that holds the cornbread together.

6th grade drop-out in Great Depression, smartest Fing woman I ever knew


----------



## threelittlestars

All Im trying to get at is women can be insecure. If a guy told me that he HAD to have sex period, I would doubt love...I would doubt that maybe if I had an accident and was unable to have sex would he still love me...stick by me? After all that is what a partner is. Right? So to say that sex is the end all be all is very problematic for a person like me to fear. 

I have a HIGH libido. Every day, any time is my way. LOVE sex...but there have been times I was out of commission. Pregnancy was not easy for me. He cheated then. 

So....When I warn you, I warn you because of the underlying message you inadvertently send is that you are not a good partner to count on when the going gets tough. And I'm SURE that is not the message you want to send. You are a honorable and good guy. I think you just don't realize that is how a GF could interpret your sex discussion.


----------



## 225985

Chuck71 said:


> Like my grandma used to say..... sex is the egg that holds the cornbread together.
> 
> 6th grade drop-out in Great Depression, smartest Fing woman I ever knew




I like that. 

Without the egg, all you get is breadcrumbs. Which is what a lot of us get from our wives.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

threelittlestars said:


> All Im trying to get at is women can be insecure. If a guy told me that he HAD to have sex period, I would doubt love...I would doubt that maybe if I had an accident and was unable to have sex would he still love me...stick by me? After all that is what a partner is. Right? So to say that sex is the end all be all is very problematic for a person like me to fear.
> 
> I have a HIGH libido. Every day, any time is my way. LOVE sex...but there have been times I was out of commission. Pregnancy was not easy for me. He cheated then.
> 
> So....When I warn you, I warn you because of the underlying message you inadvertently send is that you are not a good partner to count on when the going gets tough. And I'm SURE that is not the message you want to send. You are a honorable and good guy. I think you just don't realize that is how a GF could interpret your sex discussion.


I think it is a good message to send if he is being truly honest. Then a partners fears, wants and insecurities can guide their decision. I think he fully understands the ramifications because he will end up with an equal, a high drive partner, a person who understands or alone. Yet, they will know EXACTLY where his mind is at and they can ask questions or move on.


----------



## threelittlestars

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I think it is a good message to send if he is being truly honest. Then a partners fears, wants and insecurities can guide their decision. I think he fully understands the ramifications because he will end up with an equal, a high drive partner, a person who understands or alone. Yet, they will know EXACTLY where his mind is at and they can ask questions or move on.



I agree this may work for now... But his marriage/Divorce has changed him for the worse if he is willing to give up something special down the line because either sex needs to stop or it has dwindled. Sex is very important in helping to develop a deep relationship, and it is HELPFUL in maintaining it, but the relationship needs to be deeper and heartier to survive the droughts, and bumps and challenges. 

I would hate to see what is wife has done deprive him of a wonderfully deep relationship in the future. He is too good a person.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

threelittlestars said:


> I agree this may work for now...


 What he stated and is doing is supposed to work right now. He's having fun, being honest and maybe he will find a new lifelong partner. That's what dating involves, finding the correct partner for your future. I'm not going to argue the sex part because his list, your list and my list are most likely completely different.

All I am saying is the "for now" doesn't matter, if you can't pass your first personal requirement in building a relationship. So, if it made you fear what he has concerning the future, you move on. I know I passed up on women because they smoked. I know women passed up on me because I didn't make enough money. I'm not a publicly affectionate guy so, some relationships ended for that reason. He'll pass up on women who don't have his zeal for sex. They may feel, as I did, they passed up on something special. That's irrelevant because we are each trying to find our particular happiness and compromise comes later. I'm not going to say it makes him worse until he does something awful. He changed his relationship priorities to include sex at the top.

Sorry, I think HD people can set that as their requirement and have meaningful relationships as well without deprivation.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't think Betrayed Dad is saying that it is "all about sex". He's just saying that any good relationship for him will always included a good sex life. That there is no reason to go forward with any potential partner if that part is missing.
> 
> But he's also learned, this isn't really a problem. Women want sex, a significant number of us also expect a good sex life as part of a good relationship, and it isn't that hard to find this if you are forthright about your expectations.
> 
> I agree with him that there's absolutely no reason to pursue someone if they don't understand and agree that great sex is a minimum requirement to be with him....and she should feel this for herself, too. Plenty of us do.


Thank you for putting it far more eloquently than I did.


----------



## Chuck71

Ey yo's...... hows yousa doin?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chuck71 said:


> Ey yo's...... hows yousa doin?


I’m alright man lol. I only log on here few times a year these days out of boredom.

This place was basically my mental therapy. It helped tremendously talking with others.

I just feel like I don’t need it anymore. Not gonna say I’m 100% but I probably never was.

Still doing the single dad with 50% custody thing. Last gf was about a year ago. 

Too lazy to start dating, its just a huge drain on my time. Plus I been so career focus. 

Got a huge promotion recently that I spend along time gunning for. Career wise I’m golden.

I try to read the stories on here and I just cringe... everyone is so damn codependent.

Pro tip of the day: If you can’t be happy alone, no relationship will ever make you happy.


----------



## Loveshorror

Hey BetrayedDad- I followed your story on SI and here. Good for you! Glad you are well. Yes - the co-dependent hopium pipe is strong in many, where I don’t comment either, as others find my comments an affront to their “great R.” 🙄


----------



## BetrayedDad

Loveshorror said:


> Hey BetrayedDad- I followed your story on SI and here. Good for you! Glad you are well. Yes - the co-dependent hopium pipe is strong in many, where I don’t comment either, as others find my comments an affront to their “great R”


As far as I’m concerned, if just one person on here dumped their trash POS spouse because of my story, then the entire 78 pages was worth it.... I’d be content with that.


----------



## turnera

BetrayedDad said:


> Pro tip of the day: If you can’t be happy alone, no relationship will ever make you happy.


THANK YOU! One of my most used pieces of advice.


----------



## Chuck71

How's life treating ya?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chuck71 said:


> How's life treating ya?


8 years sure does pass quickly doesn't it? It's been treating me well, thanks for ask Chuck. I hope the same for you. I can genuinely say I'm happy, absolutely zero stress in my life right now. Single at the moment but frankly not interested in dating. My patience for that wore thin after the pandemic though it doesn't stop my friends from still trying to set me up. I keep busy working a lot and raising kids who are now teenagers. Spending time with them is what a look forward too everyday. They're both great kids. Wish I had more to report but maintaining the status quo is good enough for me!


----------



## Chuck71

I'm bad about sending out -hows yousa doins- to older members. Mine was right before yours. Will be 9 years

in about a month. Doing well, got hitched again....never thought I would. As your kids get older, the less and less

you have to deal with your XW. I may bug you again for an update in a year, before they close it.

Thanks for the update!


----------



## Evinrude58

GTdad said:


> If you're aiming for a quick, successful (however you define it) divorce, take advantage of the "Mister Wonderful" effect. While she's in lala land with the POSOM, planning their future and picking out curtains and maybe, just maybe, feeling a little guilt about you, push the divorce through like a greased rocket sled. Hope their relationship lasts long enough for the divorce to become final.


This


----------



## Casual Observer

BetrayedDad said:


> 8 years sure does pass quickly doesn't it? It's been treating me well, thanks for ask Chuck. I hope the same for you. I can genuinely say I'm happy, absolutely zero stress in my life right now. Single at the moment but frankly not interested in dating. My patience for that wore thin after the pandemic though it doesn't stop my friends from still trying to set me up. I keep busy working a lot and raising kids who are now teenagers. Spending time with them is what a look forward too everyday. They're both great kids. Wish I had more to report but maintaining the status quo is good enough for me!


So... I'll ask if nobody else will. After all this time, has sex become a non-issue? Not worth the bother? Or is it something you miss?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Casual Observer said:


> So... I'll ask if nobody else will. After all this time, has sex become a non-issue? Not worth the bother? Or is it something you miss?


Never said I wasn't getting laid lol, just not interested in dating or worse committing to a serious relationship. Especially, with antiqued expectations that I do all the courting. Hard pass, I'm having to much fun doing all the **** I want to do and enjoying my freedom from other people.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Thank you everyone for the well wishes, I remember many of you very well. Glad the forum is alive and well!


----------



## Marc878

How is the coparenting going? You should be at a point of indifferent by now.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Marc878 said:


> How is the coparenting going? You should be at a point of indifferent by now.


Coparenting is fine, it's really never been an issue. We both have 50/50 custody (if you go by whose house they are sleeping over) but I see them more even on off days because I got primary custody so the bus drops them off at my house every day. If indifferent means it would not phase me in the slightest if I found out she fell off the side of a mountain, then yes I would say so lol. Though to be fair, I would feel bad for the kids lol.


----------



## SRCSRC

BetrayedDad said:


> Coparenting is fine, it's really never been an issue. We both have 50/50 custody (if you go by whose house they are sleeping over) but I see them more even on off days because I got primary custody so the bus drops them off at my house every day. If indifferent means it would not phase me in the slightest if I found out she fell off the side of a mountain, then yes I would say so lol. Though to be fair, I would feel bad for the kids lol.


I feel the same about my ex-WW.


----------



## fluffycoco

I have enjoyed reading your blog. I can tell you have been getting better and better after left ex. 
Keep going. love to see your updates ...


----------



## jonty30

BetrayedDad said:


> I recently found out my wife has been sleeping with her boss (how cliche) for the last six months. She doesn't know I know yet but she suspects something is wrong. (I'm not a pathelogical liar like she is and can't hide my emotions as well.)
> 
> My attorney basically told me it would be in my best interest, and in getting joint custody of my children, to do this as civilized as possible. He told me to wait until the next marriage counselling session, which is a week from now  and announce it to her then.
> 
> The boss is married so I really want to tell his wife (who just had a baby not long ago mind you) but I'm hesitant now because it will only piss her off and drag this out longer than it needs to be. He said if I decide to make this ugly from the get go then it will cost me big down the road.
> 
> Suggestions? If I report them to the bosses wife and their HR dept will it be worth the blowback of a custody and house battle over a short term revenge gratification on my part? It's killing me trying to be the bigger person when I was being treated like a jerk for so long.


The zombies walk the earth and they are amongst us.


----------



## Chuck71

Yet it............STILL teaches lessons!


----------



## Galabar01

Just read through this thread. Wow. Epic.

Is the Ex still with the 15 year younger dude?


----------



## Talker67

BetrayedDad said:


> I feel it's been VERY therapeutic for me to put my thoughts and feelings out there, even anonymously. To be able to use TAM as an outlet and be validated has gone a long way in helping me heal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never did say how I knew. I guess there's no reason to keep it a secret anymore. In the spirit of "How I Met Your Mother" ending, I will tell everyone now and my kids when they are older "How I Busted Your Mother".
> 
> The ex had a newer IPhone and an old one kicking around that we upgraded from a while back. I knew most of her toxic friends (and as it turned out luckily the OM as well) had iPhones too. I would see her sending iMessages all day long. So I set up her apple id on the old iPhone so that every time an iMessage was send to her, it also went to the old iPhone as well. I caught her immediately and after that I was able to read the cheating in real time for months after. I knew every attempt at R was false before she opened her mouth. Plus I could track her whereabouts with the "Find my iPhone" feature also. To this day she still has no idea. She was never technology savvy even with the OM helping her cover her tracks. At one point, they were convinced I had them bugged lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I made a joke about that several times. She would tell me ALL these nice things I wanted to hear then I would check the phone and bam lies. EVERY... SINGLE... TIME... The sad part is I checked that thing 100's of times in the months leading to me booting her out and never once was there a single nice thing about me on there. NOT ONCE. No "I love BD", no "I'm sorry I hurt him", no "He's been supportive of me despite what I did", nothing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do. It stopped being about the OM and really because about HER. SHE was the demon. SHE would of cheated on me with ANY POS that came along. That was the moment she got a free upgrade to serial cheater in my mind. I remember jumping on TAM and venting while she was in the other room sobbing uncontrollably about me finding out. I was just not surprised at anything she was capable of anymore at that point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a weird, way it did help me. Being cheated on is very emasculating. I needed to feel desired even though deep down I knew she was just trying to win me back for selfish reasons. That's why it didn't change my decision. I knew where her heart was and it wasn't with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, the stupidity that caused her to buy into the POSOM's garbage is the SAME stupidity that got me a kick a$$ divorce. I doubt I'd be so lucky with anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree with you. My concern is only for the type of mother my kids are going to have. That's why I wish she would fix herself. I don't what their mom to be a wh0re because it's my kids mom. At the same time, I really can't do much about it. She tells me that, "my way of living life isn't the only way and she can follow her own path." I guess that's true but I SEE where her path is headed and it's not going to end well for her. I'm sorry my kids have to grow up around that. That's why I continue to offer my two cents when she asks. In the hope that she wakes up and starts acting like a person with some self-respect.


so the OP was like the British in WWII, when they captured their first enigma cypher machine! brilliant.


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## BetrayedDad

Galabar01 said:


> Just read through this thread. Wow. Epic.
> 
> Is the Ex still with the 15 year younger dude?


He's their Stepdad.


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## jonty30

BetrayedDad said:


> He's their Stepdad.


Better me than him.


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## Galabar01

BetrayedDad said:


> He's their Stepdad.


OMG. Is the guy pretty dumb? What happens when he's in his 40s and she's well, her age?!?


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## Galabar01

jonty30 said:


> Better me than him.


Wait, what?


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## jonty30

Galabar01 said:


> OMG. Is the guy pretty dumb? What happens when he's in his 40s and she's well, her age?!?


He'll trade up. He'll be able to hook up with somebody who is 30-35.
It's really her that's the damn fool when she went for such a younger man.


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## jonty30

Galabar01 said:


> Wait, what?


I would not want to be stuck, as such a young man, with so much responsibility and a women who is 15-20 years older than I.
If that's what he wants, he can have her. 

It's just his life that is being wasted, imo.


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## Galabar01

jonty30 said:


> I would not want to be stuck, as such a young man, with so much responsibility and a women who is 15-20 years older than I.
> If that's what he wants, he can have her.
> 
> It's just his life that is being wasted, imo.


I thought, when you said "Better me than him," you were saying that _you_ were the stepdad that married BetrayedDad's XWW.

Did you mean "Better him than you?" or "Better him than me?"


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## jonty30

Galabar01 said:


> I thought, when you said "Better me than him," you were saying that _you_ were the stepdad that married BetrayedDad's XWW.
> 
> Did you mean "Better him than you?" or "Better him than me?"


I wasn't sure how to phrase it.


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## SunCMars

Galabar01 said:


> OMG. Is the guy pretty dumb? What happens when he's in his 40s and she's well, her age?!?


It is not the age difference that stands out to me
It is the mental immaturity of both of them.

Or, at least one of them. 

That said, many men marry younger women.
No one questions those men.
Why is that?

It is more the age of the mind, less the age of its carrier, the body.


I wonder...
Did the man (AP) worship his mother?

Likely, the AP lives, a day at a time, never thinking beyond a few weeks, at most, next year.



_King Brian-_


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## skerzoid

BetrayedDad said:


> He's their Stepdad.


If I remember, you were okay with him because your kids liked him. This is better than some abusive a$$ahola. So he married her? I must have missed that.
OP has moved on. He reached the state of not-giving-a-****. The opposite of love is not hatred but indifference. She wanted to reconcile but he would not have any of that.


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## BetrayedDad

skerzoid said:


> If I remember, you were okay with him because your kids liked him.


Yeah, other than his questionable choice in women, I don't have any issues lol. He had nothing to do with the affair. My kids do still like him alot and have never had a bad thing to say about him. Guess I lucked out on that? I keep it to curt pleasantries and that's it.


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## MattMatt

Glad things are going so well for you @BetrayedDad. Good to hear from you.


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## jonty30

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah, other than his questionable choice in women, I don't have any issues lol. He had nothing to do with the affair. My kids do still like him alot and have never had a bad thing to say about him. Guess I lucked out on that? I keep it to curt pleasantries and that's it.


At least somebody is looking after the kids. That's a positive development from this.


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## fluffycoco

BetrayedDad said:


> He's their Stepdad.


Without of your 2 kids he probably didn't marry her, guess he really love your 2 kids.


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## Chuck71

Let's not pain-shop


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## jonty30

The essential answer, imo, is quickly.


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## Asterix

Hello @BetrayedDad I came across your thread and just finished it. What an ordeal that you had to face due to your narcissistic ex. I'm sorry that you had to deal with that. 

I also read that she is still with the guy that is 15 years younger than her. It's been eight years now. It seems that your kids like him a lot. It's possible that your ex might think that she may not be able to do any better than her current partner and for reasons of his own, he's still with her. 

I wanted to suggest that you may want to consider building a bridge with him for the sake of your kids. Do some bonding activities like fishin', huntin', bowling balls, playing videogames (whatever it is that you both do). This could give you additional leverage in your co-parenting situations. This could help improve your kid's situation and it'll be good for your self-realization that you can build a bond with him with a feeling of detachment towards your ex. 

On the flip side, you may not want to consider this as well. It's been eight years since you got divorced. So, I'm guessing that your kids are of the ages 13 to 16. Which means it'll only be a couple of years when they'd be 18 and they don't have to visit their mom as often. So, building a bond with him may be moot. It looks like they have a good relationship with him so far without your involvement, and I can't see why that can't continue going forward. 

Something for you to think and weigh in.


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## SunCMars

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, I think HD people can set that as their requirement and have meaningful relationships as well without deprivation.


I personally have this fear of ladies who are single, divorced (whatever) and who have this really great sex drive.

Can they be trusted to remain in any long term relationship?

Be careful what you ask for.

I fully expect to be pounded for this statement. 


_Nemesis-_


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## notmyjamie

SunCMars said:


> I personally have this fear of ladies who are single, divorced (whatever) and who have this really great sex drive.
> 
> Can they be trusted to remain in any long term relationship?
> 
> Be careful what you ask for.
> 
> I fully expect to be pounded for this statement.
> 
> 
> _Nemesis-_


I have a good sex drive. My number of lifetime partners is well below the average and I’ve never cheated on anybody. Not even when my gay exH refused me for over 6 years.

Been with my BF now for 2 1/2 years…haven’t cheated…and have no plans to do so. If, for some reason, he stops providing what I need (love, attention, companionship, and yes, sex) I will break it off before I go find someone else…just like I did with my now exH. Thankfully. I don’t see that happening.


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## LisaDiane

SunCMars said:


> I personally have this fear of ladies who are single, divorced (whatever) and who have this really great sex drive.
> 
> Can they be trusted to remain in any long term relationship?
> 
> Be careful what you ask for.
> 
> I fully expect to be pounded for this statement.
> 
> 
> _Nemesis-_





notmyjamie said:


> I have a good sex drive. My number of lifetime partners is well below the average and I’ve never cheated on anybody. Not even when my gay exH refused me for over 6 years.
> 
> Been with my BF now for 2 1/2 years…haven’t cheated…and have no plans to do so. If, for some reason, he stops providing what I need (love, attention, companionship, and yes, sex) I will break it off before I go find someone else…just like I did with my now exH. Thankfully. I don’t see that happening.


I also have a high sex drive, but it's not for ANY guy...I can only think about and desire ONE guy at a time. I've always been that way. And even when my STBX wasn't sexually satisfying for me, I didn't think of other men. Even when guys flirted with me or hit on me, it made me sad (not excited), because I would wonder why my STBX didn't want me like those men seemed to.

My high drive and desire for sex was focused on HIM, and I couldn't imagine sex with anyone else.


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## Livvie

SunCMars said:


> I personally have this fear of ladies who are single, divorced (whatever) and who have this really great sex drive.
> 
> Can they be trusted to remain in any long term relationship?
> 
> Be careful what you ask for.
> 
> I fully expect to be pounded for this statement.
> 
> 
> _Nemesis-_


I don't understand this at all. Like, it makes no logical sense.

Unless a woman is cheating, _ALL women are single until they find a partner to have a relationship with_. Right? 

Why would a man want to find and subsequently partner with in a relationship or marriage a single woman with a LOW sex drive???? Unless of course he didn't have a sex drive and is searching for a sexless relationship. 

So, ????? What?


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## notmyjamie

LisaDiane said:


> I also have a high sex drive, but it's not for ANY guy...I can only think about and desire ONE guy at a time. I've always been that way. And even when my STBX wasn't sexually satisfying for me, I didn't think of other men. Even when guys flirted with me or hit on me, it made me sad (not excited), because I would wonder why my STBX didn't want me like those men seemed to.
> 
> My high drive and desire for sex was focused on HIM, and I couldn't imagine sex with anyone else.


Exactly!!!!

I also wonder…is a man with a high sex drive also a bad choice for a relationship?


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## A18S37K14H18

OP,

I just read your thread and I'm sorry how it all went down and I'm happy that you made lemonade out of lemons.

GREAT job on your kids. You really stepped up to the plate for them and you should be proud.

Just curious whether you know what happened to your ex-wife's boss and his wife.

Did she ever divorce him?


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## Divinely Favored

LisaDiane said:


> I also have a high sex drive, but it's not for ANY guy...I can only think about and desire ONE guy at a time. I've always been that way. And even when my STBX wasn't sexually satisfying for me, I didn't think of other men. Even when guys flirted with me or hit on me, it made me sad (not excited), because I would wonder why my STBX didn't want me like those men seemed to.
> 
> My high drive and desire for sex was focused on HIM, and I couldn't imagine sex with anyone else.


Exactly..I am also a dance with the one you brought. Once had a GF(34) try to loan me(23) to her bestie(35) for the night. Back from the club and GF's BFF(tall brunette, nurse) walked in the bedroom in her black teddy and stockings and asked what I thought about sleeping in her room tonight, with GFs consent. I declined as I am a one woman man.....when I'm done I'm done....If another is with a girl after me, I will never go back to her.


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## Joyceimma

Hmmm.... this is touching


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## Rob_1

Divinely Favored said:


> I declined as I am a one woman man.....when I'm done I'm done....If another is with a girl after me, I will never go back to her.


I have actually experienced, and done exactly as you in the two situations exposed above. Same motto.


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## BetrayedDad

Asterix said:


> I wanted to suggest that you may want to consider building a bridge with him for the sake of your kids. Do some bonding activities like fishin', huntin', bowling balls, playing videogames (whatever it is that you both do). This could give you additional leverage in your co-parenting situations. This could help improve your kid's situation and it'll be good for your self-realization that you can build a bond with him with a feeling of detachment towards your ex.
> 
> On the flip side, you may not want to consider this as well. It's been eight years since you got divorced. So, I'm guessing that your kids are of the ages 13 to 16. Which means it'll only be a couple of years when they'd be 18 and they don't have to visit their mom as often. So, building a bond with him may be moot. It looks like they have a good relationship with him so far without your involvement, and I can't see why that can't continue going forward.
> 
> Something for you to think and weigh in.


I considered this a long time ago but decided I would rather not. Not because I would have any issue with him but it would inevitably lead to more encounter's with my ex-wife. In general, I avoid toxic people in my life whenever possible. I'd also like to believe I would have been okay with this suggestion if the divorce was not due to infidelity but your typical "grown apart" situation.


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## BetrayedDad

A18S37K14H18 said:


> OP,
> 
> I just read your thread and I'm sorry how it all went down and I'm happy that you made lemonade out of lemons.
> 
> GREAT job on your kids. You really stepped up to the plate for them and you should be proud.
> 
> Just curious whether you know what happened to your ex-wife's boss and his wife.
> 
> Did she ever divorce him?


No idea, after I showed up at her house to "enlighten her", we texted a handful of times over a few months and I never heard from her again.

Last I heard, she suspected multiple infidelities from him and was still planning to try to "work it out", get counseling, etc. 

She had JUST had a baby and was from another country natively so I'm sure she felt alone and scared. I suspect she wasn't thinking clearly......


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## fluffycoco

Glad to see your update again OP! How is life treating you? Have you found any real single woman to date?


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## BetrayedDad

fluffycoco said:


> Glad to see your update again OP! How is life treating you? Have you found any real single woman to date?


I'm afraid to ask but what's a fake single woman lol?


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## fluffycoco

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm afraid to ask but what's a fake single woman lol?


Didn't you mention before that you had dated 2 ladies but found out both of them still in marriage


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## Asterix

BetrayedDad said:


> I considered this a long time ago but decided I would rather not. Not because I would have any issue with him but it would inevitably lead to more encounter's with my ex-wife. In general, I avoid toxic people in my life whenever possible. I'd also like to believe I would have been okay with this suggestion if the divorce was not due to infidelity but your typical "grown apart" situation.


Thank you for your reply. I'm really sorry how things went down for you and how much of an ordeal it was. I'm glad to see that you are doing better now.


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## BetrayedDad

fluffycoco said:


> Didn't you mention before that you had dated 2 ladies but found out both of them still in marriage


I don't recall that, all my exgfs were single (until we dated), but then again this thread is really old so maybe I'm forgetting something. Can you site the post where you read that so it can jog my memory?


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## BetrayedDad

Asterix said:


> Thank you for your reply. I'm really sorry how things went down for you and how much of an ordeal it was. I'm glad to see that you are doing better now.


Thank you for asking! I appreciate requests for updates... I just don't log in much anymore so it takes a while to reply.


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