# 20yr's & don't know where to start



## Leann (Aug 26, 2010)

This will probably look like a book but you can't put 22 years down in just a few paragraphs. I'm in a situation where i wish my husband would just disappear and go away. I want out but don't want to deal with the complete drama of tears, fighting etc that would come with divorce.

I'm 43 he's 47. I had a 3yr old daughter when we married he later adopted. We have a 11 yr old son together also.

I could tell you what's going on but it may help to have some background on us.

ME:
I come from a family of 7 of whom I have nothing to do with anymore. My parents did what they call "shame based discipline". Examples: as a late bed wetter punishment was making you lay with your nose in the wet spot or dad put your head in the toilet after he pee'd in it. My mother caught me masturbating at about age 7ish and she pulled me by my hair out of my bunk bed, stripped me naked and gathered siblings and the cousins that were over and made me repeat what she caught me doing in front of them. We had an electric fence for cattle and we had to hold it for punishment. Then of course the old fashioned "whippings" that were at that time acceptable. I remember the school getting authorities involved when they found welts down the back of my legs once. So just a high level of what I come from. At age 15 I moved out (parents moved me out and into with relatives) as I started showing dissent and fighting back to things such as our religious beliefs ( girls didn't wear pants or cut hair). I lived with relatives not seeing my family for about a year then was on my own by age 16. 

I did pretty good. And think I turned out pretty normal compared to the rest. I do'nt associate with any of my family as all my siblings grew up with bad issues. My sister is a "green witch" and lives with her boyfriend and husband BOTH. Two brothers one in prison for felonly spousal abuse and drugs other was registered sex offender, alcoholic etc. Another brother just grew up a looser. Drugs, missing all his teeth, kids taken away etc. Me.....I've had a speeding ticket! LOL But no, seriously I'm ok. I think I'm a great mom and all.

So I got pregnant with my daughter at age 21, met my ex husband who was an old fashioned hispanic cop. Very domineering, possessive etc. After 3 years I finally bailed. But it was all such a hassle I did it the chicken way. Packed up and left before he got home then avoided dealing with him. 

Met my current husband about 2 years later, knew him 8 months and got married. We got married at first because he needed dental work done. We got along good it seemed to be working and all. I liked the fact that he was so attracted to me and was just all over me. He was a good guy but had a big pot problem that I brushed off. He also had anger issues like putting his fist through wall when pissed etc but I brushed that all off. (i was still young )

Within a year of being married I wanted out. I didn't know it at the time but later learned it was considered severe verbal abuse. We spent the next 5 or so years with my walking on eggshells. He would get so mad about the stupid little things and I was an "f'ing bitc#". What the [email protected]# have you been doing all day you stupid piece of shi& etc etc. So I spent the next dunno like 5-7 years "trying to change him". He'd come home from work and be in his chair and tell me to take his boots off. I did. He'd get mad about what I made for dinner so would make him something different. I tried to make him happy but i never worked.

My son was born and it was a disaster. He didn't want kids. course after my son come along he got tears in his eyes as he realized what we had. anyhow, I spent who knows how many more years threatening to leave. Wanting counseling. His response to counseling was things like "i'm not going to some F'ing stranger and airing out our dirty laundry" or "if you'd just quit being so senstitive we wouldn't have any issues". I did alot of crying, feeling sorry for myself, sometimes getting angry with him and myself. Wishing my kids were in a different environment and all. If he thought I was serious he'd actually stop and then start apologizing. I'll be a better husband, I'm trying etc etc. It usually lasted a few days before he was blowing up about something. "wtf did you do to the F'ing dishwasher to break it!!" just little things. 

Little over a year ago I do'nt know how I got to where I was but i was "checked out". Past crying. Past anger. Just indifferent I guess. I'd often thought about what it would be like to have marriages of my friends. Envious of other women that had friends and kewl husbands etc. But I finally told him I was done. I didn't love him. Hadn't loved him in long time, didn't know if I ever DID love him and I wanted out. He insisted I was seeing someone else and I told him i'd rather be single the rest of my life. Not to mention I was probably so messed up I could never have a normal relationship. He started literally crying and begging please please. I love you so much. I love our son so much (daughter is moved off and just finished college). He turned into something I've never seen before. He really was devastated. He begged and begged. I told him I had to get out. I went to the beach with a friend for a week and it killed him. He cried the whole time called and called and called me. He started clearing out the woods behind our house and painting and doing things while I was gone I guess to keep busy and all. The way it ended was me telling him I wouldn't even look back at him if he didn't go to 1- anger management, 2- marriage counseling and 3- deal with his pot addiction. He was a lazy selfish jerk that never got off his butt to do anything. I didn't want him.

Well, he did. He made the appointment himself and did it. I stayed. He did quit smoking pot. A lifetime of daily pot smoking and he stopped. After his anger management and quitting pot we went to marriage counseling and ALSO individual counseling. Can't say that I know much about his individual counseling but in mine I was "identified" or whatever with codependency and extremly low self esteem. I worked on that.

I'm in a good place now. I actually like me now. Perfect? no, but good. Things have been pretty good for about a year or so afterwards. He often said he was much happier person and all. But about the last 6 months not so much. At first he started doing things. Maybe to the lake with friends. Out dancing or dinner. ( he use to be very ASocial and didn't like hanging out with other people)

Slowely, he's turning back into a vegetable again. Not smoking weed but he is back to spending all his days off sleeping and watching tv. He snaps alot again. NOTHING like he use to do but little things. We still don't have any friends we hang out with. My life is still not how i want it. This is very hard to explain in writhing but it's like he quit being a total jerk and selfish but he's not what I want for a husband. He says "nothing's good enough for you is it". I say I want something different.

I want someone who doesn't act 80yrs old. When he come home early one day and caught me and my son goofing around in the living room trying to learn some silly dance his response was "that's real freaking productive" as he rolled his eyes. Whey couldn't he just say something like "you 2 are silly". It bothers me that he literally lives in his recliner and tells me "i don't know why it bothers you so much I'm not doing anythign to you". I wish he'd play with the dogs with my son and I or go do something with us. He has no personality. No sense of humor. (this is REALLY hard to describe). The way he responds/reacts/points of view etc it's just not anything I like being around.

Here's one: my son smarted off yesterday. My husband says "you know what! why can't we have a normal freakin son?" I looked at him and was like "hey hey!". Son lashes back out "why can't i have normal parents that don't yell all the time". Spouse says "we are normal when your not here". He loves our son so much don't get me wrong. He does. But he doesn't "get it" when I try to talk to him about how there is no way we'll be able to retrain our son if he's seeing us react like that. You can't just yell back and expect the kid to correct the behavior. 

I'm checked out again. Don't know how I got there but I have. For awhile I though it was very selfish of me. Here he goes and does all this changing and now it's still not good enough. But ya know....it's not. I don't expect a perfect marriage. I expect there to be days ya don't like your spouse. Arguements, disagreements, different views etc. But he's just a very boring, no personality, still kindof grouchy person. If I were to meet him today (erasing all the past) he's not anyone I'd want to date. Not the kindof person I'd be interested in if that makes sense. I'm back to wishing I was just alone. 

My son is getting old enough and is making comments about his dad. He's always in tears about someting his dad said or did (or didn't do)

Aside from vehicles, home and a lifetime of "stuff" finances etc.... I SOOOOO don't wanna go through what I did before. He WILL beg and cry and would not give up trying to "make it work". I know he loves me. He does. It will be a huge nightmare and I'll be the bad guy this time. I've thought about just sticking it out and coexisting. But what a waste of one's life. 

To some this may seem very selfish of me. And I could see why. He goes through all these changes and it's still not good enough for me? but your not here in my home. I'm a very energetic bubbly self confident person who is married to a very quiet, secluded, logical smart person who doesn't have any desire to have any fun, see's no point in silly things in life. If i listen to music it's "what do you think your freakin 15?" there are plenty of people our age that don't have a foot in the grave yet.

I think my self confidence is much much better. I use to view myself as a skinny boney freckly plain jane person. Now I see a vibrant gal who looks killer for her age, loving person who likes to look at the brighter side of life. We're just not on the same road or something. (btw I recently mentioned counseling again and the response was "oh gosh here we go again, your kidding right?") Although I'm sure if i were to walk out the door he'd be all over counseling. I really don't want to spend another 5 years "wanting" to leave. I've often thought about how nice it would be if he'd have an affair. Then I could walk and no guilt i guess. (yeah i know that sounds awful but I'm just being honest here) The fact that it wouldn't bother me if he slept with someone else is scarry. That's not good. 

Ok..........I'm ready. Hit me up here :smthumbup:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He made changes, but they didn't stick. He did what he needed to do to hook you back in, and it worked. Now he doesn't have to work any more.

Time to leave.


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## Leann (Aug 26, 2010)

But he's not like he use to be. Like 1/10th of what he use to be. Seriously, this guy is night and day now. I'm feeling like it's little petty things that I should just get over. Dunno. Guess if i wasn't confused I wouldn't be here on this message board lol


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Marriage is work. You don't just show up. If you're not getting what you need, it's your job to show him what you DO need. And it's up to you to decide if you will stay married to someone who won't give it to you.

At the same time, make sure he is getting what he wants, too. Go to affaircare.com and read up on how to get a happy marriage.


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## Leann (Aug 26, 2010)

The site is about affairs??


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not really. It's about saving marriages. What it takes (from both of you) to keep a marriage from going sour. Affaircare is the name of someone who posts here, who counsels. She's very wise.


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## Leann (Aug 26, 2010)

oh ok. I'll check it out more then


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can also get the same kind of material at marriagebuilders.com. Look for Plan A, Love Busters, and Emotional Needs. Don't waste your time on the forums (they're nuts there), but the marriage info is solid.


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## capgras (Aug 27, 2010)

I agree with Turnera. Hate to say it but people will only change when the price of doing business the old way is more painful than the price of changing. He changed when he thought he was going to lose you and now once he felt safe again he reverted back to his old ways. I also agree that you should follow up on the resources suggested and to keep an eye on what you might be doing to contribute.


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## Leann (Aug 26, 2010)

I've actually previously read through all the marriagebuilders information. I found alot of it very helpful. I dunno. I think he feels he's come far enough. he has come such a long way. The person I use to be married to was horrible. Absolutely horrible. I creeped around him at all times. I lived every day of my life trying to ensure nothing upset him but seemed to fail anyhow. The yelling and cursing and name calling was unbelievable. X rated. But not anymore. He's not really reverted. He's learned to control his temper. He's learned not to sweat the small stuff. And if I put the chip clip on the chip bag incorrectly he'll fix it himself now instead of yelling at me. He only acts like the example I gave about my son maybe once a day or every other day. not all the time. 

I wonder. Based on how we started, the foundation our marriage was built on, if it's possible for me to actually ever love him. It's really really hard to "make deposits" towards someone's love bank when your not feeling loving or emotionally connected to that person. I want to WANT to try but feel just drained. I'll try looking at things about him that I DO like. How financially responsible he is - then think he's so darned nit picky and worries so so much. He'll call a place twice to ensure he's got correct information. He looks over every receipt in great detail always afraid he's been over charged for something. When I pay bills even if i write a check so the check is your proof of payment, i have to keep the receipts and file them where they go, write the account number etc on the check, write the payment confirmation number in the checkbook then check the account within a few days to make sure it went through ok and the company didn't "loose it". Good gosh!! Then I remember I was once attracted to his georgous eyes and so I try to look at him and see something visually attractive but instead all I see is someone who doesn't care about their weight and says he shouldn't have to he's a guy its' different for women. (he's got some playboy playmate idea of what we should look like but it doesn't matter for men) I look at something he may do putting forth effort like telling our son "how was your day dude?" then when my son says "horrible they made us run too much in p.e." my husbans reply to that be "you know what, if you didn't play on the computer so mucy you might be in better shape". 

Or like yesterday he asked me about my nails and i said yeah, i put some on today his response was "great, how much did that cost us?". I told him i did them myself cost about $10 it's not like we're broke and penny pinching. He says well we will be if you keep spending on stupid stuff like that.

Last night he tells me "you know, we might get along better if you gave it to me more often". I said I don't think 3-4 times a month right now is that bad compared to alot of people. Besides he knows I've been having spotting issues for the last 2-3 months. I think i have fibroids again and will be going to doc soon as our new insurance kicks in. He says" I dont care about everyone else" 

He works 4 10's so 3 days off. He sits at a desk all day so no outside or manual labor. Yet every single week the first day off he's out of the bed maybe 2-3:00 then to the recliner for the reminder of the day. Day 2 he gets up about 11-12ish, showers then back to recliner rest of day. On day 3 he'll get up about 11-12ish, recliner till about 2 or so then do something he needs to get done. (vehicle, outside, whatever) for a few hours then by 6 or so back to the recliner. He knows it bothers me and he's right, it shouldn't. He says he's not hurting anyone he just wants to "relax". Now, this could just be me here so I don't push that one. I am more energetic and maybe most men do just chill when they're home. I don't know. I've never been in or around a healthy relationship so have no idea. And yeah it does bother me. It bothers me that I have to creap around the house all day being quiet then when he DOES get up I'm cleaning in front of him and it bugs me. (i'm between jobs right now. Left one to take another and have a few weeks off). I don't ask him to help with anything since I"m home. I've kept up the yard, house, bills, etc etc. But when I did work he found reasons to not help. He said that since he did the motorcycles every other week (change air filters, oil, wash etc) and it's outside in the heat then he shouldn't have to do other things during the week. To me it's just that he does this every other week and nothing in between. The home, yard, garbage, shopping etc are daily chores. but i'm not too worried about that. I gave up on that one lol. 

Recently he told me he got in the car and the stereo was cranked up. I said it shouldn't have been I usually don't turn it over half way up. He says that's way too loud. I said it shoudn't blow the speakers or anything only 1/2 way up. He said well it's not good for it and besides your 43 not 13!. Now... come on.... I'm a middle class woman who works in a corporate environment. I train, teach, motivate, I'm educated with college degree etc. I'm not some silly woman acting immature. But I do like to enjoy myself and have fun. But since he doesn't he must comment to me about how childish it is rather than just looking at me and thinking "well, that's what she loves to do and that's what I love about her" but instead he see's it as illogical behavior. 

Late last night my son was asleep, he was watching tv and I got on facebook on the computer and was on it for right at 30 minutes. He kept looking over at me and rolling his eyes. I knew what he was thinking. But for the first time I did it anyhow and in front of him on the laptop rather than going into the office. After a few looks i finally said "what is it" he says "ohhh nothing". I said well you keep looking at me odd. He says I suppose your playing? I said, you know, what I'm doing is no less productive than what you've done all 3 of your days off. He says "have you looked at the office recently?" (i've got some clutter in it needs to be cleaned out). 

We have 2 cats and 2 dogs. He loves the cats I love dogs. Every single day I clean doggie poop and feed/water and I do catfood and litterbox. Last night he walked through the laundryroom and said you need to clean the catbox it stinks in there. I said uh oh I forgot about it. I went to grab a bag and to do the litter and said the wrong thing when I asked him" how come you never offer to do the cat litter. Since I do the doggie poop you could do the cat litter". he was like "you know I'll get sick if i smell that, sorry!"

I have relatives I've not seen in MANY years. Ones that I went to live with after i moved out of home. Their kids have kids now. And an old girlfriend that has moved closer that i've not seen in almost 10 years. I found them all on facebook (which he has an issue with my new facebook thing cause it's "childish"). But anyhow, while i'm off work i'd LOVE to run over and visit. They are about 2 states away. I've never done anything like that before (go somewhere like that without him). But I can't. In his mind: #1 - there is no reason to. If you've not seen them in that many years then who cares. #2 - my son is here and in school. Although he'd be fine and my inlaws are here to help there is no way my husband would take care of him alone. Not to mention my son would freak. He does not like being alone with his dad. (don't worry nothing bad or big) but mom's not there to defend him against dad's mouth. and #3 - he says it would be a total waste of money. Even though it would only cost me gas. Part of me wants to just do it anyhow. But.. it would cause a huge ordeal and I can't do that to my son.

Yes, our inlaws live here. The moved her after we did to be near our son. My son is their "baby's baby". They are like my own parents and I love them very much. We're close. His mother says he use to be such a sweet kid with a huge huge heart and doesn't know "what happened to him". And his dad is just like him. That man won't use a drive through for fear of a messed up order. He will drive his payments to a place rather than mail in case the mail looses it. He worries so so much. But, my husband's mom is an extremly passive person. Very quiet and nothing ruffles her feathers. She's able to let things go in one ear and out the other. 

It's just all this constant little things day after day after day. I feel drained. empty. cold

How do I find my way through this? It's like I've got nothing left to contribute and really wish I did. I'm sorry to ramble on and on. These kind of things are so hard to go through. It's very emotionally draining. I'll hae insurance benefits again effective November 1st. At that time I'll probably definately go see the counselor again I saw before. He was really good. But that's quite awhile from now. 

You know what it feels like? It feels like being in a huge maze. You've been told that one path leads to a prize (marital content or happiness) and the other path leads to divorce. You know the path to divorce and really don't want to have to go that way because there are so many obsticles and it's nasty getting through it with lots of thorns and stuff. But you can't find the way to the prize and your tired, hungry exhausted and just sitting there not knowing what to do wishing a helicopter would just come pick you up and you never had to look back at it again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Everything you are describing is a result of YOU having no boundaries. You CHOOSE to do all the work, and then resent him. You CHOOSE to back down when he talks down to you, and then you resent him. You CHOOSE to take care of him and resent him for not wanting to do the same.

You can't go around blaming him, when you allow it.

As my therapist told me, 'Stop propping him up. Once you do that, he will either fall flat on his face or learn to stand on his own two feet.'


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## Leann (Aug 26, 2010)

Ok, I see your point. I think that's something that will be a little difficult to work on. and to be able to do with without attitude. I'm sure he'll take it as my showing dissent. I'm sitting here right now on my laptop in the living room and he has 2 pair of socks in front of his recliner (he's at work) So when i begin cleaning in a little bit....clean up the room and leave his socks laying on the floor? 

He won't be picking them up i'm sure. He's got a few days off coming up beginning tomorrow again (he had a weird schedule this week) so he'll spend most the time sleeping in the bed then in the recliner. They won't get picked up. Then in about 2 days when he's out of socks he'll throw a fit about my doing laundry and how hard could it be to pick up a pair of socks when i'm already cleaning. I know it sounds odd but something that simple will create a huge issue between us. 

I'm also thinking about when he's sleeping. Maybe continue being quiet for him his first day off and all then after that not worry about things like dishes making noise and etc. But then he'll holler for me from the bedroom and when I go he'll say something about do you have to be so noisey. If I don't go he'll hollar till I do. 

Ya know... these things are like lifestyle changes. :scratchhead:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Socks: Pick them up and put them on his lap. Say "I know you didn't mean to leave those there for ME to pick up, since they're YOUR socks. Put them in the dirty clothes hamper, ok?"

If he refuses, or throws them on the floor, you pick them up and say "Ok, I'll just throw them away, since you don't need them."

And GO THROW THEM AWAY.

About the sleeping: "Honey, it's unrealistic for the whole house to tiptoe around while you are sleeping during the day, so I'm just letting you know that that practice is going to stop. If you wake up, you are always welcome to join us in whatever we're doing, since we do miss you so!"

See how you're making negatives into positives? Be prepared for Change Back! behavior (in the book The Dance of Anger); you have to stay strong and simply say "This is what I need to live a happy, stress-free life; if you are unhappy about something, I'm glad to discuss it with you and find a good compromise."

It's all about boundaries.


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## Leann (Aug 26, 2010)

LOL. Ok this isn't funny but just wanted to say would you believe that I'd only gotten past your first paragraph and I felt something heavy in my chest. serious. I was like "OMGOSH!" I can't do that! I'll tell you exactly what would happen no matter how positive and calm i acted.

I place the socks on him or chair with him and they will be back on the floor. Probably when he gets up to go to the bathroom or something. but either way I can't throw them in the garbage! He'd tell me i was being a b or something who knows. but..... I'll try it. 

I can do the "join us" etc but he'll just get up and get in his chair. that's ok tho. better than sleeping I suppose. 

Sounds like I need to find really good material to learn how to practice setting boundaries and doing it respectfully rather than feeling resentment when I try to. I remember my counselor talking to me about not being responsible for other peoples emotions. His and others. (i use to have a HUGE issue with getting involved in other peoples business. not in a nosey way but trying to help "fix" things for people) he called it codependency. I've brought so many stray animals home, nursed back to health and found good homes for cause I couldn't say no. I use to jeapordize our own finances to help someone else I felt was in more need than I. I've done wonderfully outside of my home. I've done great with making decisions based on "what is emotionally healthy for me and my family" outside of my home. Once I started practicing it outside the home it slowely got easier and easier. Kindof like retraining myself. 

btw... although your the only one replying to me you've been exceptionally helpful and I appreciate it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did I suggest the book Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend? Should help you.


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