# Sex not viewed as an act of love



## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

I had a very interesting conversation with my wife last night and I wanted to get some opinions on what she expressed relating to her views on sex and love. I'm especially interested in the perspective of all the women who frequent these boards.

Long story short is we've been married 16 years and have gone through some recent struggles. We are in counseling and working on things and making a lot of progress, but sex is and has been a hot button issue for us throughout the marriage. I have a higher drive than my wife and for years we have been stuck in a cycle of anger and resentment due to my feelings of dejection and he insecurity that it breeds.

So my wife and I were discussing things last night and I was explaining to her exactly why sex is so important to me. I told her that to me it is an affirmation of our love and confirmation that she feels like I am special above all others. I explained that it allows me to validate her desire for me and that she finds me attractive. 

It turns out that her perspective on sex is very different than mine. She doesn't view it as a loving act at all. She said that having sex with me doesn't impact her feelings for me whatsoever. She doesn't feel any more or less loved after the act than she did before. She views it as a fun activity that we share together and there isn't much more emotion tied to it than if we were to go play tennis.

I have to wonder how prevalent this type of opinion is, especially amongst women. It feels a little backwards to me that I attribute so much emotion and feeling to sex and my wife thinks its just a nice way to release some energy every now and then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

If she doesn't view it as a bonding and a loving experience in addition to viewing it as something fun then she's really missing out on the best part of having sex in the first place.

sex with my exSO was positively spiritual it was so amazing.Sure we had those light,fun little romps but there were always deep emotions tied to it.
Sex should help you feel more in tune and more connected with your spouse or SO.If you're just doing it for the fun of doing it,is there really even a point in it?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

So, what does she do that (in her mind) expresses love, intimacy, and nurturing for her husband?


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## TrustInUs (Sep 9, 2012)

I feel the opposite. There are times through love making, that my H tells me more with his body and actions than any words that come out of his mouth. So I do feel even more loved afterwards.

And sometimes sex is just sex, it's fun, exciting, and messy, but there is nALWAYS an emotional connection there that is strengthened after the sex.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Hmm... I would like to say that I view sex as a loving act - and I do somewhat because I love my husband and because it's fun - but it's hard for me to feel anything emotionally during it. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

My wife has told me she views it as just "exercise". So I stated, joking: "Well then, I don't suppose you'd have any problems if *I* did it with other women since it is *nothing* more than exercise ...right?"

She then said "You'd better not!" :rofl:

So I suspect she _really_ sees it as something more than exercise now, but stated it that way to put her earlier, single years in perspective, when she was ...ahem ....a little more "free" with sex  

She wanted me to know that those earlier sexual experiences of hers when she was in her twenties were merely physical, with nothing behind them. I believe her too


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I see Sex / Making Love as pure "emotional fulfillment" ....with the culmination in the physical....it is so much more than pleasure It can not be expressed in words alone. 

Nothing God has given us can = such a high ...for me, it is the greatest expression of Love... My husband does not even call it







, it is always "making love" to him. I've never felt "used" by him. When I hear other women talk like this, it is foreign to me. 

I've never been able to separate the emotional from the Physical...nor have I wanted too...for me.... this was worth the wait... For this crazy little thing called







...

I see this as highly Romantic, Amorous and one of the greatest joys of being married.

Might be a nice article for your wife to read - to understand what you are trying to get across to her >>>

Why (and How) Sex is Important to Men

Sex Is an Emotional Need


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Simple kind of man said:


> I had a very interesting conversation with my wife last night and I wanted to get some opinions on what she expressed relating to her views on sex and love. I'm especially interested in the perspective of all the women who frequent these boards.
> 
> Long story short is we've been married 16 years and have gone through some recent struggles. We are in counseling and working on things and making a lot of progress, but sex is and has been a hot button issue for us throughout the marriage. I have a higher drive than my wife and for years we have been stuck in a cycle of anger and resentment due to my feelings of dejection and he insecurity that it breeds.
> 
> ...


No more emotion than a game of tennis? I can not, and will never, understand men and women like this. I absolutely see sex as an act of live - the _ultimate_ act of love between two people. I feel so much closer to me husband during and after sex than I did before. Our arguments don't seem nearly as bad, and the atmosphere of our marriage improves substantially. 

So, to answer your question, I am not at all like your wife.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Recreational Sex? 
Brings back memories of my Navy days...

I think that is what it seems to be for my wife. I just seem to get the most joy from it because it just wears her out too much before bed. 

We've lost that loving feeling I guess

There is no real emotional connection. I don't believe we/ I feel more loved after sex. I know for sure my wife doesn't 

That is a great question to talk about with my wife.

Thanks fror the thread SKM


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

She's lying. And I can prove it. If she attaches no more meaning to sex than a game of tennis then she wouldn't mind you having sex with other women anymore than she would mind you playing tennis with other women. In short, this is a power play. If she minimizes the importance of sex then it doesn't matter whether she has it or not, thus she holds the power over it.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> She's lying. And I can prove it. If she attaches no more meaning to sex than a game of tennis then she wouldn't mind you having sex with other women anymore than she would mind you playing tennis with other women. In short, this is a power play. If she minimizes the importance of sex then it doesn't matter whether she has it or not, thus she holds the power over it.


Disagree. Typically, men don't mind if a women spends money on us and while yeah, we like it, we don't really care. But if she spent the money on another man, we'd care in a hurry. Same thing about telling us how their day went. Guys really don't care for more than a few minutes to hear how his wife's day went (typically) but if his wife suddenly started spending an hour on the phone with some other guy every night, you bet that husband would get upset in a hurry.

As for the original question poised by the OP, I think there are a lot of women like this out there. My ex wife was one, my fiancee for a time was as well. They don't view sex as a need for a bond like men do. It's the way it is for some, likely because they aren't programmed (IE raised or surrounded by peers who think) to think sex is anything a 'good girl' should want, desire and think is important. Sadly, I think a lot of women are raised to think sex is only a burden, used to get kids or get a husband. It's hard to enjoy something you are raised to think is a chore.

Women though have their own bonding needs. Men need sex, women need to be held, cuddled, talked to, etc. We men don't (typically) enjoy sitting down and talking about every little detail of our day after work, but a lot of women sure do. That's their means to bond with us, they want to include us in everything they do and tell us about everything they did. Men would rather veg on the couch or go putter in the garage and when asked how our day was just say "it was ok," not have a 45 minute discussion on if Bill is getting Nancy a Christmas present or not.

I know this is the sex forum, but if a wife doesn't equate sex to intense emotional bonding, it's not really a massive groundshaker. It's likely pretty common actually.


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

I would say when a woman is in love, she views it as a loving, emotional, bonding experience. When she isn't, its just screwing, a chore or annoying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I agree with the others who've said that if she really thinks about it that way then she should be fine with both you and her having sex with other people.

Does she have a history of promiscuity?

What DOES she consider an act of love?

You guys should do The Five Love Languages.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

The OP implies (scratch that... I'm inferring from the original post) that his wife doesn't enjoy or care about sex at all. One of the things I've learned around here is that most men perceive sex as an act of intimacy, while women perceive sex as one of many _products_ of intimacy. That's not to say that some women get no enjoyment out of sex at all, but that she enjoys sex as much as she enjoys any bonding experience the couple shares... like tennis.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I would say when a woman is in love, she views it as a loving, emotional, bonding experience. When she isn't, its just screwing, a chore or annoying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I had to ask my wife if she felt more loved after sex

or if she felt closer to me before during and afterwards... No No No!

Nothing emotional at all for her.

It's duty sex for her...that's all. I knew that all along. Last night, she just confirmed it.

She did say that she would like more hugs and kisses... Which is what I want...The weird thing is that in 20 years, We still don't hug or kiss with passion. We don't even say ILY anymore. We want it but we don't! Go figure.

I sometimes joke about having another GF/Lover who can provide the sex part she doesn't want and she says she is OK with it. I don't believe her though


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> I agree with the others who've said that if she really thinks about it that way then she should be fine with both you and her having sex with other people.
> 
> Does she have a history of promiscuity?
> 
> ...


I've read the Love language book. My wife hasn't read it yet.

My wife was a virgin at 25 when we met. She never wanted or need sex. I waited for about a years and when I was about to leave her, she gave in. Just enough to keep me around.

Recently, I've wanted more sex and when she felt I was close to leaving, we increased the amount. I know she doesn't really enjoy it at all... Maybe she likes the oral part....And since we've been having more sex in the last 1 1/2 years, I last way too long for her and she just wants me to hurry up and get it over with...


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

Truth: there have been times in my marriage where not only did I not feel close to my husband, but after sex I felt farther apart. To date, I don't think I've had a spiritual experience making love of my husband. During those times when I approached sex as an obligation, the feelings of disconnect were probably heightened. I've also never thought that my husband was that "in tune" to my pleasure and that sex was at times too mechanical, quick and lacked passion. I have found that as I have been able to allow myself to enjoy sex for me the connection to my husband during love making has increased. Not necessarily because the sex itself has improved, which it slowly has, but because I've experienced a level of trust I hadn't had before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

To me there is some emotion in sex, but I don't see it as a love bonding experience. Between my wife and I, it is a physical act. I can see how there are much more emotions involved when it happens with someone in the newer stages of a relationship or some of the first times doing it with someone regardless of when in the relationship it is.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Ina said:


> Truth: there have been times in my marriage where not only did I not feel close to my husband, but after sex I felt farther apart. To date, I don't think I've had a spiritual experience making love of my husband. During those times when I approached sex as an obligation, the feelings of disconnect were probably heightened. I've also never thought that my husband was that "in tune" to my pleasure and that sex was at times too mechanical, quick and lacked passion. I have found that as I have been able to allow myself to enjoy sex for me the connection to my husband during love making has increased. Not necessarily because the sex itself has improved, which it slowly has, but because I've experienced a level of trust I hadn't had before.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Many times After sex, I feel an angry vibe from my wife. Sex does seem mechanical most of the time... I try to kiss more during and slow it all down....make it last longer and several rounds of oral, but she just wants it over with...

As far as being "in tune" to my wife's pleasure? She doesn't know how to pleasure herself. She never has done that to herself...ever! It's like something in her mind prevents her enjoyment. If she is really really really in the mood and I spend a long time with oral, she will orgasm...and it seems like she enjoyed the act. Maybe she just doesn't allow herself to enjoy it.

If I WERE to cheat...not that I would, it would be in part to know if I am a lousy lover or not. Maybe my wife is just a cold fish.


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## Ina (Dec 3, 2012)

I'm not sure she's a cold fish. Are there other forms of intimacy she values? Does she act differently when her inhibitions are decreased, like after a bottle of wine?


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## Michael A. Brown (Oct 16, 2012)

It is true that doing sex is not officially showing your love to your partner. Sometimes people are just doing it because they need it.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Remember the old saying "Men need sex for love. Women need love for sex"?

For a woman, in a good marriage they have already made that emotional bond. It had to be there BEFORE sex started. In some cases, if sex never happened, the woman would still be bonded to her husband because that needed emotional component has already occurred. For them, sex doesn't fill the emotional cup that is already full.

For guys, the emotional bonding gets reinforced through sex. Some component may already be there but we all know that as sexual frequency decreases, us guys start to emotionally disconnect and become distant. Then sex occurs and we become connected again.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm female and I very much see sex as an act of love and a way of connecting more deeply with hubby. It's something I only do with MY man. It makes our relationship special... so it's something to treasure and prioritize IMO.

I also enjoy it very much and am HD... so maybe it's easier to feel all lovely dovey about something you actually enjoy doing.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Unfortunately I agree with the poster(s) who say that this is not uncommon--while there are certainly plenty of women who "get it" there are plenty of women who don't. When they do surveys, there are always a decent number of women who will admit that if they never had sex for the rest of their lives they would be fine with that. I know that is shocking to some people to contemplate, but truly some women just don't understand how much many men experience love via sex.

If these women truly understood this, they'd be having sex like rabbits. Or at least, they'd put in the effort far more than they do.

I think a piece of this issue is that it isn't so easy for some women to achieve orgasm. Other women over time are unhappy with their bodies, they feel self conscious and "unsexy" etc.

If only these women could read your post..what an eye-opener it would be.

There are people out there who have made $$$$ off of this issue--Dr. Laura's book the Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands comes to mind. People get all worked up about Dr. Laura, they hate her very name, so I am not defending everything that comes out of her mouth. But she has this one particular issue (men bond with their wives via sex, and why don't more women understand that) pretty well nailed down.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I can understand your wife. One needs to separate pleasure with some deep spirtual meaning. Do you ascribe the same significance to the proverbial 5 minute quickie. 

You have a higher desire than your wife, and the two of you try to work things out. She should compromise as should you. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> There are people out there who have made $$$$ off of this issue--Dr. Laura's book the Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands comes to mind. People get all worked up about Dr. Laura, they hate her very name, so I am not defending everything that comes out of her mouth. But she has this one particular issue (men bond with their wives via sex, and why don't more women understand that) pretty well nailed down.


I have her book Proper Care anf feeding of Marriages. My wife doesn't want to even open it.

My wife is one that could go the rest of her life without sex.

My wife would rather have a 5 minute quicky... just to get it over with please. 

I've come to realize that it isn't me.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Simple kind of man said:


> ... my wife thinks its just a nice way to release some energy every now and then.


What matters more than how your wife views sex is how she treats sex now that she knows how YOU view it.

If your wife understands that you need sex to feel loved, and she's willing to have sex with you, then great. It's a win/win. But, if she knows this and is still unwilling to have sex with you, or she has sex but tries to undermine it by sighing or asking you to hurry up so she can get back to folding clothes, then she's trying to sabotage your feelings of love. So why wouldn't she want you to feel love?

Good luck.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It's common.

Why? All boys and men she ever met wanted her sexually (except hopefuly family members). So a man who pursues her sexually is not showing that he loves her.

You on the other hand pursued all women sexually. Only a very few gave it to you. Therefore you connect sex with love.

What you two have to connect with is the concept of each person doing things for the other that make them feel loved, happy, fulfilled... and gettting your own personal fulfillment from being that person.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I think I'm repeating what Hicks just said, but in a different way.

The stereotype is that men want lots of sex with anything that moves. That seems to completely contradict the idea that men find a loving bond via sex. It's like the flip side of a coin. Under certain circumstances, some men could sleep with a different woman every night. Many women assume this about many (if not most) men. You can see how a woman who views men this way--as users--would find it preposterous that her husband falls more deeply in love with her because they have sex. It would seem counter-intuitive to her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> I have her book Proper Care anf feeding of Marriages. My wife doesn't want to even open it.
> 
> My wife is one that could go the rest of her life without sex.
> 
> ...


Women's bodies produce large amounts of oxytocin (bonding hormone) during sex; many times more than men do.

Women also produce it to a lower degree with cuddling, spending time together, hugs, kisses ... adn other forms of affection.

The problem comes when there is not enough affection and not enough of teh right kinds of things during sex.. like her getting her needs met and not enough sex.. Then the level oxytocin falls dramtically. Once it falls below a certain level the woman will no longer want to be touched, no longer want affection or to have sex with her husband.

I've heard oxytocin called the amnesia hormone... because when we humans are high on it we gloss over the faults of our mate. When it's low those faults become 100 times bigger than reality.

So the trick is.. how to increase your wife's oxytocin levels.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Married men here say that for them sex=love.


But I can recall when I was younger getting hit on constantly by men (married and single) who were looking for sex, not love. love was secondary.. indeed many men go on about why is it women want love when all they want is sex.

Maybe for some women they believe all those guys who wanted nothing but sex from them. thus they learned that for men sex does not mean love.. it means sex.

Maybe men hurt themselves in this way.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Married men here say that for them sex=love.
> 
> 
> But I can recall when I was younger getting hit on constantly by men (married and single) who were looking for sex, not love. love was secondary.. indeed many men go on about why is it women want love when all they want is sex.
> ...


I've wondered this too before.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

I can tell that my husband feels happier and more connected to me after sex, and I know he wants to have more of it.

But for me, my desire to have sex with him is directly related to other aspects of the relationship. In the last several months I've lost a lot of respect for him due to his lack of interest in earning a living.

My desire has withered away and sex has become a chore.

But when we were first together...I can't say the act was a spiritual or emotional bonding experience. It never made me feel like, 'wow, he really loves me because he had sex with me' or 'wow, he must think I'm really hot because he had sex with me'.

Not that the sex wasn't good or I didn't enjoy it, but it's always been more physical than emotional.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

pink_lady said:


> I can tell that my husband feels happier and more connected to me after sex, and I know he wants to have more of it.
> 
> But for me, my desire to have sex with him is directly related to other aspects of the relationship. In the last several months I've lost a lot of respect for him due to his lack of interest in earning a living.
> 
> ...


I've always loved sex and do feel closer to a lover when the sex in a relationship is good. It's in important part of the many things that are love.

But if other things are gone.. no time together, no cuddling, him not showing care for me.. no amount of sex can make up for that. Keep in mind that i'm a very HD woman. I'd be happy with sex at least once a day. 

And I do think that for women it can be hard to believe that sex=love for men because of the reason I posted above.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Married men here say that for them sex=love.
> 
> 
> But I can recall when I was younger getting hit on constantly by men (married and single) who were looking for sex, not love. love was secondary.. indeed many men go on about why is it women want love when all they want is sex.
> ...


I love your POV on this - very well articulated. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

To me sex is not love. Sex is an exercise to release some built up tension and it feels great.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Adex said:


> To me sex is not love. Sex is an exercise to release some built up tension and it feels great.


Are you male, female? Married? Single?


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Sex doesnt make me feel closer to him if the feeling is already there. I can't love him any more than I already do. I need love for sex, not sex for love.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Married men here say that for them sex=love.
> 
> 
> But I can recall when I was younger getting hit on constantly by men (married and single) who were looking for sex, not love. love was secondary.. indeed many men go on about why is it women want love when all they want is sex.
> ...


I think it is more that SOME men (the guys running around hitting on you) have hurt OTHER men by making them believe that all men are the same way. I think being promiscuous makes it harder to fall in love, whether man or woman. That's why I think it is best to marry someone who's sexual past is similar to your own.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

honeysuckle rose said:


> I would say when a woman is in love, she views it as a loving, emotional, bonding experience. When she isn't, its just screwing, a chore or annoying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


/thread


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Adex said:


> To me sex is not love. Sex is an exercise to release some built up tension and it feels great.





> *EleGirl said*: Are you male, female? Married? Single?


 Married MALE.... he is the one who started this thread & riled the women up with his attitude >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/59611-becoming-alpha.html - he made this comment on another thread HERE ....



> * Adex said:* 'I'm of the opinion that even if there is resentment or anger on her part, a woman will still have sex with you if she's still attracted to you and you're decent at sex."


 Yeah right ~ only if she is HIGH DRIVE ....if not, she is likely just passifying such a man. 



> *honeysuckle rose said*: I would say when a woman is in love, she views it as a loving, emotional, bonding experience. When she isn't, *its just screwing, a chore or annoying*.


I would think the majority of women feel this way....if their husband's had the attitude of Adex up there -that it's just an exercise to release tension...I would think this would leave them feeling like a "glory hole" to his lustful moments. 

I've never experienced that, but just imagining my husband being detached from his







hormones while having sex.....this would grow cold for me.... there is no way I'd be so into him, wanting him all the time....I'd be dreaming of romance & the emotionally connected waves - that overtake when making love... making a couple "one" in spirit.

I prefer men tipped







... they appear to be more romantically in touch with the sensitive side of Love making, not separating Love from Sex.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I see Sex / Making Love as pure "emotional fulfillment" ....with the culmination in the physical....it is so much more than pleasure It can not be expressed in words alone.
> 
> Nothing God has given us can = such a high ...for me, it is the greatest expression of Love... My husband does not even call it
> 
> ...


I adore reading about your relationship and feelings you and your husband have for one another. It just makes me


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

I dont think its accurate that people have sex with other people and dont feel anything. Most people at least have to like the person they are scrumping and "like" is a feeling. Even if it is a negative emotion its still a feeling.

The "feeling" part of sex is the best for me. Ill have sex with my husband when im not particularly in the mood in part because it "feeeeeels" so damn good. Sometimes getting d*cked down is secondary.....not that getting d*cke down isnt important dont get me wrong...its ALWAYS important lol. But how I feel when im doing it is just as important.


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## Simple kind of man (Oct 22, 2012)

Hicks said:


> It's common.
> 
> Why? All boys and men she ever met wanted her sexually (except hopefuly family members). So a man who pursues her sexually is not showing that he loves her.
> 
> ...


Wow what a great post, and a great example of Occam's razor. It's seems so simple and obvious when you consider the fundamental differences between how men and women "experience" sex over the course of their lives.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Married men here say that for them sex=love.
> 
> 
> But I can recall when I was younger getting hit on constantly by men (married and single) who were looking for sex, not love. love was secondary.. indeed many men go on about why is it women want love when all they want is sex.
> ...


I think men do hurt themselves in this way, more due to age than anything else. I think we all can agree that we don't understand what love really is (between and man and a women) when we are young. It often takes a learning curve, involving a few other relationships, before we truly grasp what love is.

As such, we stumble through those first few relationship using only our basic instincts to guide us, and those are often hormone driven. For men, we are driven by testosterone, which fuels our sex drive. So we equate sex and relationships. 

It's only as we get older, say mid-20's or so, that we really start to grasp that sex doesn't equal love, but rather is an expression of love. So, how we act as a teenager or early adult is what we are getting judged on, when that's not how we truly are (most of the ime) as an adult and in marriage. Yet, I agree, it's understandable that women would judge us to be like that as it's during those same years, teenage and early adult, when she would have dated the most men and came to found they were often after one thing, sex.

So women are basing their beliefs off what they have learned from dating men, and often their dating experience is pre-marriage, to similar aged men in the 15-25 age range who are misguided in seeking out sex as much as theya re. It's a bad mix.

I'd also like to add though that women seem to be more sexually active and liberal earlier into a relationship, and then let that sex die off. This is also misleading to men who do link sex with love. It leaves a false impression that the woman has fallen out of love with the man, since he takes sex to mean love. Meanwhile she's not out of love with him at all, just rather her sexual drive has regressed to its more normal level.


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