# Not sure what I need?



## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

I hesitate to write this because we have been pretty good the last few weeks. It is hard to write what has been hurting me for so long when I feel ok right now, but this is how it always goes. There are times when things are great, my husband is trying, and then something sets him off. 

History: I am 31 and my husband is almost 35. We have been married for nearly 7 years and together for 10. We have two children together (5 and 7) and he has two children from a previous marriage (12 and 14). He married very young to his first wife, had children very young and divorced very young. He states infidelity on her part, but I hesitate to think that is the only reason she left him now. 

I feel like our problems really started when we first started dating. He was new out of his marriage and I don't think had enough time to heal. I was young, naïve and in-love. Looking back, I should have ran far away after many of the stunts that were pulled then. 

The insecurity and jealousy on his part really started after our first son was born. He doesn't like people looking at me, talking to me and the thought of me potentially being hit on will send him into a full on accusatory rage. Even though I never get hit on directly. He goes through spells where I have to constantly reassure him that I love him, that I want only him and that there isn't anyone else. He is always accusing me of being up to no good and thinks I lie about everything. He doesn't know, but I receive emails every time he does the "find my iPhone" for me, which is numerous times throughout the day. It doesn't bother me because I am not lying, but then it does because he doesn't trust me enough to know that I am not lying. 

If I workout it is to impress other people, if I go tan it is to impress other people, if I want my hair done I am high maintenance and I want to impress other people. 

He always tells me I don't love him, I don't care about him and that I "used to" love him and care about more. To be honest, that might be true to some degree, but I feel so indifferent anymore. I am emotionally exhausted. The constant accusations and reassurances are exhausting. 

I do everything for him and the kids. Recently he has started helping out more with cooking and cleaning, but I am sure that will go back to him sitting on the couch while I cook, clean and help with the kids homework. I am physically exhausted, too. 

I feel like I am constantly walking on eggshells wondering what will set him off. I can immediately tell when I am talking to him if he is in one of his moods. He is distant, short and just plain grumpy. 

He is a pessimist- he always thinks something different than what I said. He will literally turn what I say around into something completely different to make it sound terrible, like I hate him. We will be arguing and I feel like I am talking in circles. I tell him constantly that he exhausts me. 

I have suggested marriage counseling, but he refuses. The last fight I told him that I would at least go to IC, but he was against that saying they would just tell me to leave him. I think he might be right. 

On top of all of this, he has punched holes in our wall, called me a **** and gotten very angry when drunk- just leave it at that. 

I don't even know why I am writing. I feel like my head knows what to do, but I just can't let go. I do love him when things are going well. I am a strong woman, or I used to be. I have a wonderful career and could easily take care of myself, so it isn't financial. 

Maybe I just need to talk it out.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this.

Is there any way you can talk to his ex to find out if he was this jealous/controlling with her? Or, if not jealous, was he "just" angry, controlling and lazy?

Your husband is emotionally abusive. He is also physically abusive. When a person punches holes in walls, breaks things, bounds on thins, or used physical threats (holding balled up fist near your head) it is considered physical violence. The message of this kind of violence is to put fear in you with the threat that next time he might just punch you out instead of the wall.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Brem said:


> Maybe I just need to talk it out.


Do you mean talk it out here? or with him?


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I'm sorry to hear you are going through this.
> 
> Is there any way you can talk to his ex to find out if he was this jealous/controlling with her? Or, if not jealous, was he "just" angry, controlling and lazy?
> 
> Your husband is emotionally abusive. He is also physically abusive. When a person punches holes in walls, breaks things, bounds on thins, or used physical threats (holding balled up fist near your head) it is considered physical violence. The message of this kind of violence is to put fear in you with the threat that next time he might just punch you out instead of the wall.


I have considered talking to her, but then I don't want her reaching out to him. I feel like it might do more harm than good. 

I know he is all of these things. I just don't understand why I can't get the courage to leave.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Do you mean talk it out here? or with him?


This is the first time I have ever written about this. I have read this forum back and forth again until I finally got the courage to write this. I have talked with him about this stuff until I was blue in the face.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

His intervals of good behavior keeps you hooked. When things are going bad, he works on it, and when things settles down, he reverts to his former self. The see-saw effect has you mentally tired and confused. you start questioning maybe he does love me enough to change, but his pattern suggests otherwise. In other words, he keeps hooking you back in because he does not want to lose control of you.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> His intervals of good behavior keeps you hooked. When things are going bad, he works on it, and when things settles down, he reverts to his former self. The see-saw effect has you mentally tired and confused. you start questioning maybe he does love me enough to change, but his pattern suggests otherwise. In other words, he keeps hooking you back in because he does not want to lose control of you.


this is exactly right because it is exactly how I feel. Like I said, I hesitate to even write this because everything is going ok right now...Until the next thing happens or his next mood.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Well, he needs professional help to change, and then it would take years without any guarantee. He will need to see a psychologist to even begin to recognize the cause and underlying factors. So, if he does seek help, that is what you will have to look forwards too. Without any guarantee that he will become stable. Could there be some improvement, som. It will nearly take the same amount of time it took him to become that way. It is reprogramming the brain after all. It is easier when your younger and more difficult when you get older.


That is the realization I have come to, but I don't know how to get over that hump. The one where I make a decision. It is hard to throw away a life you have built. My kids, to break up their home. How does someone get to that point. I just keep telling myself I will one day, but then will it be too late.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

This is common and it's sad that men will push away a woman who loves him. His baggage from the first marriage or from childhood, or his 'what if' thinking, and his paranoia are his undoing. Jealously may be is a primal instinct but he's got to keep it in check. The more he snoops, the more snooping becomes a habit and eventually confirmation bias will have him thinking you're cheating and he just hasn't caught you yet. Here's the bottom line, if you can't get him to turn loose of thinking he actually has control then it's going to be difficult for him to change. The fact of the matter is, he cannot control a single thing you do. He can only control how he reacts to it. 

Honestly I wish he were here posting because he's the one who needs advice I think from anonymous sources. The life he's living is a fulfilling prophecy and it doesn't have to be that way. It's a worrisome life and driven by fear and insecurity and it doesn't have to be that way. He has potential to be the man you're head over heals for but he's sabotaging himself a little bit.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I'm sorry to hear you are going through this.
> 
> Is there any way you can talk to his ex to find out if he was this jealous/controlling with her? Or, if not jealous, was he "just" angry, controlling and lazy?


Just my thoughts the ex will rarely be a credible source. Think about this route with extreme caution IMO.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Mr.Fisty said:


> His intervals of good behavior keeps you hooked. When things are going bad, he works on it, and when things settles down, he reverts to his former self. The see-saw effect has you mentally tired and confused. you start questioning maybe he does love me enough to change, but his pattern suggests otherwise. *In other words, he keeps hooking you back in because he does not want to lose control of you.*


See you nailed the actual problem. He thinks he has control. He needs to know he does not have control of you, never had it, and never will have it. He only has control of how he reacts. I don't know, maybe he can't change? But that's the change that needs to happen.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I wouldn't go find his ex, I think that would be a little under handed and reinforce his fears that he can't trust you. He would feel somewhat betrayed by that I imagine.

You mentioned that he's opposed to MC, which isn't uncommon and that is his choice to make. As for IC for you however, he can be opposed to it all day long if he wants to, but you need to do that for you. His feelings towards you going to IC speak volumes. If he is afraid that a professional therapist is going to listen to you and immediately begin advising you to leave him (not that every therapist is perfect, but they are trained to see through one-sided stories), then that means he knows there is at least some legitimate reason for you or anyone else to feel that way.

For instance, say he has a drinking problem and even worse, a problem with anger towards you when he's drinking. In his view, him drinking himself drunk 4-5 days a week isn't a problem as long as he's knowing running people over with his car, destroying the house, physically assaulting you, etc. Maybe his father behaved that way and he just see's it as normal, and thinks you're the odd one for not understanding that. Or maybe he feels like his anger is warranted by your behavior, etc. Even though he may be convinced of all of this himself, he's smart enough to know that the average "outsider" would likely see this behavior very differently. So he'll automatically be distrustful of anyone else, you included, and try to control the situation in order to ensure that he's needs are met. In this example, that would be preserving his drinking, escaping repercussions for his abusive behavior, keep you abiding by his will.

In your example, he sounds like he has a severe control issue. His distrustful nature of you is unfortunate, it probably means that he's been betrayed in his past as you indicate and it's something that he needs to get help for so that he can work through that.

In any case, your posts have all the trappings of an oppressed woman who is struggling to stand up for herself. So my thought is that you should start not by trying to help your husband or repair the marriage, but by finding yourself a good IC and working on yourself first. A good therapist will help you find yourself and build you up so you can be strong enough to address the other issues. Plus, doing so will surely draw his ire and help force the issue as well. Either he'll shape up a bit out of fear of what you'll learn in IC, or possibly become even more controlling to a point that he himself or others can't help but see it as well.

Best of luck!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Brem, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, paranoia, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling behavior, feeling of entitlement, lack of empathy, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as strong verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, and irrational jealousy.



Brem said:


> He goes through spells where I have to constantly reassure him that I love him, that I want only him and that there isn't anyone else.


If he is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong BPD traits), that behaviors is to be expected. A BPDer's greatest fear is that of abandonment. Indeed, this fear is one of the nine defining traits used by psychologists in diagnosing BPD.



> He always tells me I don't love him, I don't care about him and that I "used to" love him and care about more.


Until a BPDer learns how to love himself, he will never believe you will find him lovable when you realize what he is like inside. A BPDer may believe you love him at this very moment but will still live in fear that, once you realize how empty he is inside, you will walk out and abandon him.



> I am constantly *walking on eggshells *wondering what will set him off.


That's how it feels to be living with a BPDer. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._



> He will literally turn what I say around into something completely different to make it sound terrible, like I hate him.


If he is a BPDer, he frequently experiences intense feelings due to his inability to regulate his own emotions. These feelings are so intense that they distort his perceptions of your intentions and motivations. Moreover, because he is emotionally immature, a BPDer will not intellectually challenge these intense feelings. Instead, he will accept them as self-evident "facts." That is, the feeling he is projecting onto you is so intense that he is convinced it MUST be true. 

This is why a BPDer will manufacture whatever explanation best explains that feeling. And if you were to prove that explanation to be false, he would simply manufacture another explanation -- equally as outrageous -- to replace it. And, then in in unlikely event you proved it false too, his mind would loop back to the first explanation -- as though you had never discussed it or disproved it. This is why BPDers are notorious for "rewriting history" in their minds and for mental looping when the partners try to have a rational discussion with them on a sensitive issue.

Another expected result of these intense feelings is the frequent use of black-white thinking, wherein a BPDer tends to categorize everyone as "with me" (or "all good") or "against me" (or "all bad"). Moreover, a BPDer can reclassify someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based on a minor comment or action that is misinterpreted.



> I have suggested marriage counseling, but he refuses.


If he is a BPDer, you should expect him to be highly resistant to counseling and therapy. A BPDer is filled with so much self loathing that the last thing he wants to find is one more item to add to the long list of things he hates about himself. 

Moreover, if your H actually is a BPDer, MC likely would be a waste of time until he has had therapy in IC to address his deeper underlying issues. Indeed, teaching communication skills to a BPDer can make his behavior worse by simply making him more skillful in his efforts to control and manipulate you.



> I feel like our problems really started when we first started dating.


If he has strong BPD traits, they likely did not start to appear until about 4 to 6 months into the relationship. Until then, his infatuation over you would have convinced him you are the nearly perfect woman who had come to save him from unhappiness. In that way, the infatuation would have held his two fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at bay. When the infatuation started to evaporate, however, those fears would have returned and you would start triggering them (thus releasing his anger and controlling behaviors). This is why the courtship period with a BPDer typically is so wonderful and passionate.



> Maybe I just need to talk it out.


I agree talking would be helpful, especially with a professional. I therefore recommend you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and the kids are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of BPD red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondants in discussing them with you. Take care, Brem.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> This is common and it's sad that men will push away a woman who loves him. His baggage from the first marriage or from childhood, or his 'what if' thinking, and his paranoia are his undoing. Jealously may be is a primal instinct but he's got to keep it in check. The more he snoops, the more snooping becomes a habit and eventually confirmation bias will have him thinking you're cheating and he just hasn't caught you yet. Here's the bottom line, if you can't get him to turn loose of thinking he actually has control then it's going to be difficult for him to change. The fact of the matter is, he cannot control a single thing you do. He can only control how he reacts to it.
> 
> Honestly I wish he were here posting because he's the one who needs advice I think from anonymous sources. The life he's living is a fulfilling prophecy and it doesn't have to be that way. It's a worrisome life and driven by fear and insecurity and it doesn't have to be that way. He has potential to be the man you're head over heals for but he's sabotaging himself a little bit.



He is sabotaging himself a lot. I wish he would find help somewhere. He went and talked to his doctor. His doctor gave him Wellbutrin. He took it one day and said it made him feel funny.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

cdbaker said:


> I wouldn't go find his ex, I think that would be a little under handed and reinforce his fears that he can't trust you. He would feel somewhat betrayed by that I imagine.
> 
> You mentioned that he's opposed to MC, which isn't uncommon and that is his choice to make. As for IC for you however, he can be opposed to it all day long if he wants to, but you need to do that for you. His feelings towards you going to IC speak volumes. If he is afraid that a professional therapist is going to listen to you and immediately begin advising you to leave him (not that every therapist is perfect, but they are trained to see through one-sided stories), then that means he knows there is at least some legitimate reason for you or anyone else to feel that way.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. I know all of this is true. I am scared. I don't even know of what exactly. Just that I am scared. I agree that an IC would help me tremendously. Was planning to start going after the holiday's.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

foolscotton3 said:


> Sounds like he is projecting.
> 
> When the accusations come in, just say;
> 
> ...


I have told him a million times he is projecting. Never heard of the "thought crime". He is always telling me what I am "probably" thinking. I hate it. I tell him to stop telling me what I am probably thinking, he isn't me and has no idea what I am thinking. 

Yes, he gets angry at me about the thought of someone else checking me out. I have told him before that I can't control that, but it seems to make him angrier when I say that. Like he thinks I am asking for it and that I like it. Anything I do is to impress people.

I have looked into a million different disorders. I seriously think he could have BPD, but I am no doctor. Or bi-polar. For the past two weeks, everything has been good. He will get into these moods on certain days, though. I will be talking to him on the phone and immediately know if something is bothering him. I think he thinks too much. He constantly worries and thinks about worst case scenarios and then gets upset about things that could potentially happen.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Brem, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, paranoia, temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling behavior, feeling of entitlement, lack of empathy, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit strong traits of it.
> 
> I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.
> 
> ...


I am at a loss for words. I have googled every personality disorder out there and thought he may have BPD. You have hit every nail right on the head. 

We had issues when we started dating, but the real insecurity didn't start until after our first son was born. I think that is when it got worse. I plan to speak with a counselor after the holiday's. 

I am scared of what I might find out, about myself and our marriage..


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Brem said:


> I plan to speak with a counselor after the holiday's.


Brem, I applaud your decision to seek a professional opinion on what you and the children are dealing with!


> I seriously think he could have BPD, but I am no doctor. Or bi-polar.


It sometimes can be difficult for a psychologist or psychiatrist to distinguish bipolar behavior from BPD -- in a 50 minute meeting held once a week. Yet, after you've been living with a man for 8 years, it should not be difficult to distinguish between the warning signs for bipolar and those for BPD. If you're interested, I describe the differences I've seen between the behaviors typical of bipolar-1 sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and BPDers (e.g., my exW) at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Brem, I applaud your decision to seek a professional opinion on what you and the children are dealing with!
> It sometimes can be difficult for a psychologist or psychiatrist to distinguish bipolar behavior from BPD -- in a 50 minute meeting held once a week. Yet, after you've been living with a man for 8 years, it should not be difficult to distinguish between the warning signs for bipolar and those for BPD. If you're interested, I describe the differences I've seen between the behaviors typical of bipolar-1 sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and BPDers (e.g., my exW) at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences.


There is no doubt that he suffers from BPD based on those 11 statements. The one I have a question- he MUST be intimate with me every day, even during my monthly. I hate to share too much, but wanted to show you the extreme. He takes it a serious insult if I don't want to be intimate with him.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Brem said:


> The one I have a question- he MUST be intimate with me every day, even during my monthly.


Brem, if he is a BPDer and having intimacy daily, I would expect he also is creating fights -- over minor issues -- quite frequently. I say this because, although BPDers tend to be very clingy, they need frequent breaks (mini-vacations) from the intimacy (which causes them to feel controlled or suffocated). 

The BPDer typically is unaware he is creating the fight because it usually arises from his subconscious, which protects him from the suffocation by projecting that uncomfortable feeling onto you. The result is that he will truly believe you've done something to make him feel that way. Although BPDers crave intimacy like nearly everyone else, they cannot tolerate it for sustained periods without backing off in some way. The other alternative, I should note, is that the BPDer has sex (but does not experience emotional intimacy) each day.


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## Brem (Dec 17, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Brem, if he is a BPDer and having intimacy daily, I would expect he also is creating fights -- over minor issues -- quite frequently. I say this because, although BPDers tend to be very clingy, they need frequent breaks (mini-vacations) from the intimacy (which causes them to feel controlled or suffocated).
> 
> The BPDer typically is unaware he is creating the fight because it usually arises from his subconscious, which protects him from the suffocation by projecting that uncomfortable feeling onto you. The result is that he will truly believe you've done something to make him feel that way. Although BPDers crave intimacy like nearly everyone else, they cannot tolerate it for sustained periods without backing off in some way. The other alternative, I should note, is that the BPDer has sex (but does not experience emotional intimacy) each day.


I think he views sex as another reassurance that I won't abandon him. Not so much as an actual act of intimacy. It is very mediocre at best. 

He acts standoffish and icy to me very often. I know immediately his wheels are turning. I can't stand the cold shoulder, so I poke him. I try to tell myself to just leave the beast alone, but I don't. So, yes, we have almost daily spiffs. He will say, "I'm so alone" and I freaking HATE that phrase. He is NOT alone and it irritates me, so I get mad and then a fight ensues. It is a never ending battle.


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