# I don't know what to think or what to do. Advice & thoughts needed.



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I posted this on another site & the advice I got was very subjective, black & white. Unhelpful I feel. I am hoping to get something a bit more helpful here. I am just so confused, with so much crap going round my head I feel I am drowning in it. This is a long post, so I do appreciate it if u get to the end & have any thoughts to offer me. Thanks.

I have so many betrayals on so many levels, my mind is awash. My main issues are 1. Is he still cheating? I don't think he is, but I feel he is likely to again. Is he? 2. Is he telling the truth? If he is not, I cannot get over it as there is nothing for me to build on. trust & honesty, as brutal as it may be, is paramount to me. If he is not telling the truth, I have no future with him as there is no trust. 3. Is a cheater really always forever more a cheater? 4. Is he lying to me about the whole situation? 5. Does he still love her? Am I plan b? 2nd best? 

Background: We live separately, he has one daughter, I have a daughter of the same age and an older son. His attractiveness comes from his personality. Very funny, very good company, very cute and adorable. He is handsome in a cute way, you can see that he was a good looking younger man. I am 37, he is 43, 44 this month. I wish he would just let me go if he can't give me what I need. I am not there yet. Though recently I have become very close to the end of the road.

I will try to put the facts, reasons, explanations, and my opinions. And I hope for some good advice from some of you. Hoping very much for any advice. my short novel follows. Novel being the operative word. Thanks.

1. Together 2 yrs 4 months. He is (was?) my perfect man, funny, cute, gorgeous. We get on great & I feel compliment each other well. I have never been with someone so loving and attentive, helpful, sex is ace, a good boyfriend...on the whole...at least he is now. BUT....

2. He cheated on me with his ex. They hadn't been split long when I met him and he said he'd dumped her (lie, she dumped him for another man) and he was over her (lie, though he insists now it has all come out that this is true, or rather that he missed her but did not want her back, it was just sex...so he says) . He cheated on me in month 2, 3, 4 & 9. So 4 times. I felt/knew he was doing that the 1st 3 times, but had no idea on the 4th time. I always made excuses for his weird behaviour. They were reasonable excuses and that is why I stayed. And I had fallen completely head over heels in love with this man. Throughout that time it was like a rollercoaster. So much loving and then so cold. Didn't know if I was coming or going. I finally dumped him properly after 9 months of this rollercoaster. He begged me back, total and dedicated love for me, only ever been me & only ever would be me. I took him back and a week later, in his state of relief, he was in touch with her for their 4th and final (or at least so he says) f*ck. He says he never loved her (which makes it worse, at least if he was still in love with her there was a reason, but no. It was just sex. does that mean if he can get easy sex again he will go for it?). 

His version of the 'truth' doesn't make complete sense. A few changes here & there and it all fits. One of the changes that makes it all fit, that he was still totally in love/besotted with her. He insists this is not true. Even though I have said it is easier to deal with it all if that was the case. please just tell me. He says no, that was not the case. 
And...I went to see her. She said some things that made all his stories make sense, his versions don't really make sense. She said 'he loves me & always will'. She said that he has said that to her every time they have seen each other. I saw her a full year after they 'last slept together' and after he had supposedly ignored a text (5months before I went to see her) from her, requesting to meet. see below. So, why would you say someone will always love you if you had not had sex with them for a year, no contact for 11 months except for bumping into each other on a bus, and when she texted him after that meet he ignored her (see below) 

3. He called her each time for sex. She did not pursue him. And so he finished it in month 9 (July). But did he? Did she finish with him? He says she did not. He got an attack of conscience following month 9, he did not want to be that kind of person, and so finished pursuing her. He still insists this is true. He also said he couldn't stand the sight of her in that last meet. BUT...he continued to text into August. Why would he text someone he couldn't stand the sight of? I wonder if he couldn't stand the sight of her in July because she said it would be their last time? That or he is just saying that to make it look better.

4. July 2010 was the last sex (supposedly), but Jan/Feb 2011 he bumped into her on the bus. I found out when all of this came out, in May 2011 (I visited her in July 2011). Pieced it all together. He went weird on me after the bus meet. Cold. Same patterns of behaviour. Went off sex with me, turned me down, didn't fancy me, unloving. Why those same patterns of behaviour as when he had sex with her? Just because he bumped into her on the bus. He told me nothing happened & no reason for coldness. He doesn't know why. She told me also July was the last time they had sex. I may hav inadvertantly fed this to her though. Or maybe they rehearsed a story, he knew I wanted to see her, but I am not sure they were still in contact. She said their last sex was 'ages ago' and she didn't know. I tried to pin her down to dates. She also said they had only met a couple of times, poss covering her own ass tho. He was quite put out by this when I told him what she said. As if by that he was an unmemorable f*ck! He took it personally...would you believe it! So... if they had sex in July, bumped into each other on the bus in Jan/Feb, he ignored her txt of keeping in touch (so he said. she said she actually told him not to contact her anymore. That makes more sense with all that happened, his coldness to me etc, unless of course they had sex again which could be the case, see below with the loo roll) then why would she say 'he loves me & always will'? His story makes no sense. Also, he could have give cold on me because he was still in love with her. Like she says, 'he will always love me'. He loved her & bumping into her reminded him of what he lost? There4 he went cold on me because I was not her. But...he also tells me she expressed regret on one of their meets. That she shouldn't have broke up with him & should have appreciated him more. I don't know what is true of what he says. I believe he is being basically honest with me, but keeping some horrible painful truths from me. Therefore, which bits are true? Who knows.

5. He says he never loved her when he cheated on me. And yet she says the above. And he went cold on me each time he bumped into her. He went cold on me in July after I went to see her, all his questions on what I'd said to her were about her, how did she seem, how was she. Nothing about what she said & how it made me feel. Nothing about going through each point & addressing so to clear it up. He bumped into her in September 2011, chatted with her, cold on me. This was after it all came out. I was very upset. Obviously. He had promised me I would be the 1st person he would talk to if he saw her, that he would not want to talk to her. He said that in May when all came out. And then in September, he 'greeted' her like an 'old friend'!!!! I was very very upset about that, and it brought ALL back up for me. And then he saw her in October, he says she saw him too, made moves as if to say hi, but he ignored her. Why would he chat to her in Sept, and ignore her in Oct? My only explanation is that she was telling truth when she said not to contact her again (on the bus meet in Jan/Feb, but then where does the loo roll (below) fit into it?). That, or he was stupid in Sept and took on board my upset, & behaved properly in Oct. Also, when he saw her in Oct, that was a very specific occasion. He was on his way to get a tattoo. That story is below.

6. He slept with her in his bedroom, had a lodger up in attic room. Lodger moved out end of 2010, he moved into attic room around Christmas. His Dad stayed at Christmas in the 'f*cking room'. So, around July 2011, I was snooping in his house. I wanted to find her hidden phone number, or anything. He said he never had it. I found loo roll under the f*cking bed, his mopping up roll, it had blood on it, there4 from a girl, BUT...it had a black pubic hair in it. I have always been closely trimmed and he is fair. He says no way from them. Never did while on period, and must be from him. But he is fair! So who? Again I ask. He says ok, must be from them. But this was a year later after their final f*ck. AND there was no dust on it (from how I remember, but when I found it I was not thinking of dust. I just remember not noticing it being thick with a year worth of dust. I don't really remember any), yet that room was 'unused' since Christmas and us not in there either since before Christmas. Dust all over the room. But not on that loo roll in a cardboard tube under the bed! Also, dust all over the room on all the surfaces, on either end of the bedhead but none in the middle of it. Can that be so after 7 months of no use?

7. He was looking for lodgers after his last one moved out. He had a burst of looking, some calling him, coming to look at house. He was renting out the attic room. Then he moved up to the attic, and no more looking for lodgers, months go by, downstairs bedroom used as dumping ground for washed and folded clothes etc. One day, probably around March, April, May 2011, or could it have been as early as Feb when he went cold on me (I don't think that early, but possible), I go round and the bed is made up, pillow slips and duvet cover on. Yet no-one been to look at house. His explanation? He wanted it to look tidier!

8. Since I found out he cheated, May 2011, we had a few heart to hearts, he answered my questions, long chats, but after those 1st few, since about June/July, when I asked him a particular question (whether this was the cause or just that he'd had enough talking about it I don't know), he then got fed up with talking. When I 1st asked the question he just went quiet. Nothing. Thoughtful. Nothing. Refused to answer it. Every time I bought it up, the issue, any question, THE question, I got stuck on getting the answer to THAT question, he would get angry, defensive, and walk. Very defensive, clam up. Refused to talk. The question/s was 'why July? What triggered July? Why did he decide after begging me back to go for her again? Why 5months in between the last one and that one? Why finish in July? Why not just carry on? Why begin again and end in July? WHAT WAS THE TRIGGER THAT CAUSED THE JULY F*CK TO HAPPEN' That was the issue I wanted to know. what was the trigger. What made him want to pursue again after all that time. Important I thought to have that out in the open. To deal with the real issue. After 9months we were a definite item. So why July. The only answers he ever gave me was it had been a long time without, he gave up in Feb but the urge was too strong, he did it because he could, did it because he could get away with it, thought he would just see her every 6 months or so (this explanation came just the once, never again, right near the beginning of my questions on this issue) which also puts a new light on the undusty loo roll under the bed that apparently wasn't used by him & her for a full year in the room. So, he then became happy to walk out on me, on our free weekend together, or our free evening together, rather than discuss with me. I even gave him an ultimatum, that it was over if he didn't come clean with me. The ultimatum came on the year anniversary of their 'last' f*ck. There was NEVER any pleading of please believe me, not once, no 'you've got to believe me. I am telling the truth'. Nothing. He walked rather than talk. No contact for 2 days. Nothing. He didn't make any effort at all. On their anniversary too! 

A note to put in here I think is that he is quite a closed person. Not really open about thoughts and feelings. I am the opposite. I spoke to his ex, mother of his child, not THE EX in question BTW, and she expressed surprise at him opening up to me in the immediate aftermath. Said to me 'well he must care a lot then'. 

Since I found out in May 2011 (he told me a bullsh*t story 1st, until a week later I had another epiphany and told him he'd better tell me truth or we over) I have tried to trust him. He has told me a few lies since which I knew to be, there4 difficult to rebuild trust. Don't know how many he's told that I don't know to be lies. He has made great efforts...generally. Attentive. Loving. Calls me all the time. Texts. As soon as I don't hear from him for a while though I get panicky. He is helpful. He is kind. He cooks for me, looks after me. He wants to make future plans with me. He came back to my house in October with my name tattooed on his arm! Shock! I was speechless. Literally. He is NOT that sort of person. Also, I know that she cheated on him, used him, and could easily have turned him into a person that puts little importance on relationships and fidelity. I know this could be a scenario because he turned me into that person too. I had to finish with him (July 2010, 9months in) because I didn't like what I was turning into. I only stayed with him that long because the sex was so great. Which mirrors their relationship I think. He got treated like crap but stayed with her because the sex was so great (when he initially told me he had slept with her, when I demanded he told me, I asked why, he said 'cos she's a good shag'...nice! Makes me feel so adequate!) except he stayed for 5 years and not 9 months. He is a very sexual person, likes it, thrives on it, is a little kinky. It was like he became her and I became him in his next relationship, he treated me like crap, in between intense loving, and I utterly adored him and would do anything for him. These are the excuses I find to continue with him, that he is not that person anymore. BUT...he has a history of cheating. Not as a rule, he has turned some opportunities down, so he tells me, but a history nonetheless. He had an affair for the final 2 yrs with a girlfriend he was with for 11yrs, mother of his child too (she also told me their relationship was well and truly over by the time he began the affair, it seemed she was not bitter in any way about his affair). He tells me he was faithful to her completely for the 1st 9 yrs. And that he had the opportunity to cheat but did not take it. Of course I was worried by this long affair, but he told me when we 1st together he wasn't that person anymore, had grown up, didn't want that...and then proceeded to cheat. But is that because of what his previous gf turned him into? And if she was amazing in bed, kinky I reckon, right up his street, then that is a difficult thing to turn away from if he knows she will give him casual dirty sex. Esp if she had degraded his ability to love and believe in true and decent loving love. She wasn't loving from what I gather, he couldn't be touchy feely with her in public. No holding hands. She was a bit cold. And yet he is such a loving man. Must have been difficult to become unaffectionate.

She twisted and warped him I believe. Or maybe I just want to believe that? I don't think he continues to cheat, I believe he is dedicated to me, but I also believe other things have gone on that he refuses to tell me. E.g the loo roll. I don't believe he has given me his all. And if he is not honest with me, what foundation do I have to build on with him? If he continues to lie, how can I ever trust him?

So many complications, so many ifs and buts. If you have managed to get to the end of my story, well done! Thankyou for reading. And any thoughts most welcome. I need to know from him, why did he end it in July, why did that loo roll have no dust, why was the bed made up. Was there others, or was it just more with her. I need answers from him. But he won't give them. Or at least he gives a bit, but I don't feel all.What he says doesn't make sense to me. He continues to get defensive. He talks to me sometimes, but not all. He talked to me about it the other day, 1st time in ages, but that creates more questions. Because it has been so long since he talked to me properly. I don't know what to think. I don't know what goes on in his head. I just want him to do all the things he is supposed to do for me to get over this. But I am doing all the hard work here I feel, all the emotional draining stuff, my head swimming, clinging on for dear life, tortured by thoughts, wanting to talk and not feeling able to, wanting the cold and brutal truth (but not the gorey details) so I don't have to fill in the blanks myself anymore, while he believes that just being loving and attentive is enough. That I should just get over it because he loves me & wants to spend the rest of his life with me. Hmmmmm. Help! Is why I am here, because I do not get what is necessary from within my relationship I am now forced to look outside. And please, I know I should leave, I am nearly there, but I want advice in order to make sense...if possible. Maybe there is no sense. Maybe the only advice is to leave. Please tell me your thoughts on this situation, what u believe to be the case. Any advice and thoughts are very welcome.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Take care of yourself. You can't control him. Move on. This person is poison. If you do this you do not need to know anything else. Bury him and move on. You will be miserable for a while but you will find a better place.

If you want to stay with him and he does not give you the answers you want or need, then what? You will be miserable for a while but I doubt that you will ever be in a better place as long as you are with him. He is not coming clean and unless he does you will not be able to get to a better place in this relationship.

If you want to stay and he gives you everything you want and need. You will be miserable for a while and maybe (just maybe) you can get to a better place.

Not a good place to be and many of us feel your pain.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Well first - the reason you can't make sense of his actions is that cheating is one of the most completely selfish and self centered things a person can do. Therefore it makes no sense to other people because it's all about the cheater - consequences to them and others be damned. You'll never make sense of it because it's not about you - it's about him. 

Here's my $.02 on the five questions at the beginning of your post.



Remains said:


> 1. Is he still cheating? I don't think he is, but I feel he is likely to again. Is he?


I have no idea if he is now or not, but like you, I think he will again if he's not.



Remains said:


> 2. Is he telling the truth? If he is not, I cannot get over it as there is nothing for me to build on. trust & honesty, as brutal as it may be, is paramount to me. If he is not telling the truth, I have no future with him as there is no trust.


My impression is that he's not - at least not all of it. A lie of omission is still a lie. You said yourself you think he's holding back painful details - that's a lie of omission.



Remains said:


> 3. Is a cheater really always forever more a cheater?


Well - I'm a cheater myself so my perspective is a bit different on this but my opinion is that this statement is by no means an absolute in either direction. Here's what I mean. I will forever more have done what I did - I can't undo it - I can't take it back. So, in that regard, yes, I will always be a cheater. Is there any possibility that I would ever cheat again? None. The prices I have paid have bee too high. I would rather chew my own leg off. If I arrived at that point I would simply tell my wife in advance, I will never ever live a lie again. So, in that regard I am not "always a cheater." However, I think there are people - serial cheaters - who are "always cheaters" and it sounds to me like your husband (?? not sure if you're married) meets that definition. 



Remains said:


> 4. Is he lying to me about the whole situation?


Not sure what you mean by "the whole situation" but my feeling is that he's giving you just enough truth to get you to drop it. As far as caring about you - he probably means that. As far not intending to see the OW again, he could well mean that to - when he says it. Cheaters lie to themselves to. 



Remains said:


> 5. Does he still love her? Am I plan b? 2nd best?


Does he still love her? I don't know if it's love or not but he's still got something for her and like she says - he likely always will to some degree. Are you plan b? Sorry to say it sounds like it.


He sounds like a broken individual, and if he is you can't fix him. Only he can fix himself - if he wants to. I think time with him will be time filled with anxiety, heartache, deception, and pain - interspersed with brief periods of euphoria when he gives you what you need to keep you in the relationship.

I know that's doom and gloom, but that's how it sounds to me. Sorry.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Sigma & Thorburn, Thankyou! You have both said more to me in 2 simple replies than I ever got from the last site I was on. I respect both your views. Thorburn, yours is a very sad story, but your wife seems to be doing a lot of the correct things to repair the damage. Tho the questions remain as the answers don't make sense. Very similar to my situation. He is doing a little less of the heavy work though than your wife seems to be doing. He thinks that telling me he loves me often enough, calling and texting regularly when we are not together, is all he needs to do.

I have access to his phone if I want, tho things can be deleted if necessary can't they. I have his email passwords etc. But he is not as open as I want him to be to regain trust. He doesn't just accept questions & issues being brought up as a consequence of his actions. I have had the 'you just need to get over it and trust me' statements, and the 'not this again' thrown at me. That hasn't happened for some time now, he is getting better at accepting it, though I spent a long time trying to talk to him, him refusing, anger and defensive, but he did talk to me just the other day. I wonder if I brought it up again, would he be so amenable. I will have to see on that one.

And Sigma, you are not a down and dirty cheater, you were almost (an EA & not a PA?)...from what I read of you...but not that bad. Bad yes. In the same category as others? No way! Sigma, you are a good man. You just got led astray too easy for a very short time. I wish my man had some of your qualities, some of your moral integrity. U say that if u ever found yourself in that place again u would tell your wife before it even went anywhere. That is good. That is the absolute and total correct course of action. 

I have asked that of my man. If there are feelings arising for another then he has to be open with me, tell me, because that way we can work through it together. Stop this repeating. That way it is in the open to be dealt with. That way, we can work on what is wrong with us, or with his patterns of behaviour, in order to sort it. He has agreed. Wholeheartedly it seemed. But I don't believe it. I believe it was just words. You know when it is genuine...right? And I know when his words are just words. He has shown me many disingenuous words and I know when it is happening. It is all over his face. Whether those were genuine words or not I do not know, but he has shown many deep statements of love & loyalty to be total and utter bulls*it. And I don't believe he is a changed man. Not truly. He has not shown that to be the case. Dedicated to me for the moment. Yes. Changed? No. 

As a further note, he did suggest Relate counselling (MC) which he also said he'd pay for. He cannot afford it but would pay. He said this at Christmas, still hasn't made the appt yet but I believe he wd. I have pushed him on that, once, but he hasn't yet. I do believe he would though. And the tattoo? I look at that more though as not a stand alone declaration of love for me, more as a gesture of the end of his previous. 

I have read both your threads, Thorburn I have posted on yours, and Sigma I have written to you on LookingfortheSun's thread, I don't know if you have pieced those of mine to my thread here. I have spent a wk or 2 on here before posting my thread, and I thought it about time I looked for opinions on my situation. I very much appreciate both of yours, and believe you both to be correct. There are things that make me believe he may get there though. He may with a bit of work and perserverence. Those things I have written, the fact I know he loves me, he does many lovely things for me, carved me a heart on slate which said on the back 'my love for you is written in stone', though I say that, he also says things for the moment I believe. I am not sure there is a lot of depth to him. I do not know. 
...or maybe I do. Maybe I just continue to kid myself.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Not sure what you mean by "the whole situation" but my feeling is that he's giving you just enough truth to get you to drop it.
> 
> Are you plan b? Sorry to say it sounds like it.
> 
> I think time with him will be time filled with anxiety, heartache, deception, and pain - interspersed with brief periods of euphoria when he gives you what you need to keep you in the relationship.


This all sounds so spot on! It is not sad at all to hear you say that. I feel relief. You say what I feel. That is not good is it!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

As an added note, he has changed massively to how he was last yr. Immeasurably. He is totally dedicated now, whereas last yr he was messed up. Totally hot & cold. Didn't know if I was coming or going. Declaring love and then weirding out on me. Now, all loving. Tho it is not enough if he is not open. Does that change your thoughts?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I say "sorry" principally because no one wants to be second choice - it hurts. Does your last change my opinion? Well, I normally tell betrayed people here to ignore words and listen only to actions as they are a much better indicator of where someone really is. Based on that I would say - maybe. Here's what keeps me from saying yes. I worry that over the last months you have taught him how to keep your suspicion level below the trigger point. With this new knowledge he COULD be giving you what you need to believe everything if fine while taking his cheating deeper underground. That takes paranoia to a whole new level but it's the thought that crossed my mind. Only you know him and you are the best interpreter of his actions, just be sure you listen to them objectively. 

BTW - I did recognize you from your post in LookingfortheSun's thread. I appreciate your vote of confidence and understanding but telling another woman you love her is a major betrayal. I'm not the same type of cheater as many you hear about here, not by a long shot. Let me just say that my affair, although brief, had pretty much every element of a classic affair with the exceptions of rewriting the marital history and actual physical sex. Big points I understand but I can't minimize what I did. The good news is it has brought my wife and I closer than we have ever been before.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I worry that over the last months you have taught him how to keep your suspicion level below the trigger point. With this new knowledge he COULD be giving you what you need to believe everything if fine while taking his cheating deeper underground. That takes paranoia to a whole new level but it's the thought that crossed my mind. Only you know him and you are the best interpreter of his actions, just be sure you listen to them objectively.
> 
> The good news is it has brought my wife and I closer than we have ever been before.


It is great to hear that you and your wife are closer than ever. That is the result that is best. No better than that. That is what I want for me & my man. But I cannot see it coming. All I see is misery and pain, interspersed with feelings of euphoria. Just like you said in your previous post. Sad.

Regarding the 1st point, I don't believe he is still cheating. I don't think he would have considered getting that tattoo if he had any intention of going back to her (or anyone else, tho intention & action don't always go together do they) and like he says, he could've seen her much more often if he had wanted to. If he still loved her (but if you love someone and they do not love you, and you try to get them to love you, it is very painful that they do not. It is painful to see them. To be with them. It is painful to be in love with someone, have sex with them, knowing they do not love you. Feelings of being used etc. I think this was the case, this was why he didn't see her more. Because he knew she did not love him anymore. And that was upsetting for him) and yet he uses this example of not seeing her more even though he could have as an indication of not loving her. He insists it was purely for the sex. I struggle to believe that. Really struggle. She dumped him for another man, he hardly saw her when they were together, once a week for sex and that was it (he also says this as a reason for not loving her, that there was no relationship, he knew it was going nowhere and the extent of their relationship was just for sex. And that was it) and yet he was faithful to her throughout their relationship. Even though they saw each other for just 4 hrs each week for the final 3yrs of their 5yr relationship. So, this woman that dumped him for another man, cheated on him, flirted with other men in front of him, he risked our relationship for her! We saw each other all our spare time, did things together, I adored him, loved him, and he went back to her for sex. Why? Love? She warped him? (he says that while they still together she said to him (? she? probably. She is like that from what I gather) that even if they split up & met other people they would continue to meet for sex. He agreed. And so this is what they did. I don't even know if this is exactly as he tells it. I don't believe what he says to me and know he would bend the truth to make himself look better.

Also, I spoke to his mum a lot when it all came out. She was very supportive. She said that he has changed a lot since being with me. Much more in contact, more loving. That being with me has brought the old him back again. This makes me believe further that his ex really did screw with his head. Messed him up. None of his family liked her. They all say she was pretty poisonous. She even tried it on with his Mum's long time partner one drunken night going home in the taxi. The 2of them were at my partners house one eve. She made him wait so they cd share a taxi home, made him drop her off first. She started feeling him up, hand on his leg stroking him! Her boyfriends 'stepdad'! Unbelievable. That was the kind of woman she is. So you can imagine how being in love with someone like that would mess you up. 

I really don't know what to think.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

And yes, if he did cheat again he would do a much better job at hiding it. He knows much better what to do in order to not make me suspicious. And...I was very suspicious the 1st 3 times he did it. Knew he was up to something on all 3 occasions. Brought it up several times. Told him I knew something going on and he better tell me. He always gave me some kind of almost believable flannel. I would be satisfied for a short period, and then it would come up again. He made sure that the 4th time he did not trigger my suspicions. He knew what he had to do. And I had absolutely no idea about the 4th occasion. None whatsoever. He didn't do his usual going cold on me following it neither. Didn't weird out on me. I had no clue.

So, that in itself also makes me believe he may be telling the truth on the number of times he saw her. That the loo roll under the bed was there a full year. I just didn't notice the dust when I found it. That the lack of dust on the middle of the bed head was just from him making the bed up, or from nothing. That the bed being made up was just to make it look tidier. I am now laughing as I write...that all sounds too far fetched. Anyone else's thoughts?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My wife started IC right away on her own. She says she will continue doing IC for as long as it takes as a safeguard and for the rest of her life if needed. 

MC- I am open to it but my thought on this is-my wife needs fixed and once I am convinced that she is well into recovery or whatever the hell her issues are then I will consider MC. I do not see the need for it at the present time but do want to go at some point in the future.

I am in IC and have good support from friends and believe it or not her family. Her family which was close have not spoken to her since D-day2 or 3 (I made her call each member of her family) except for her younger brother . They were very close and even now that relationship is strained.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Update - I am now going to look at lie detector tests with him this weekend. I don't believe this will work as everything I have read on them is that they are unreliable. And I don't think that he will confess due to one being arranged. He will read up on them also. I think the only way out is to end. I have just read over my post again...it was like reading someone elses, shock at some of the crap, the excuses I come out with. Such a load of sh*t!


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