# Advice regarding rejection



## Crow (Apr 23, 2015)

Before I get started, let me say a few introductory things. First, thanks for reading this. My story likely is so commonplace that it's boring, but I've run out of ideas, so I've come here to get help. Second, before I get into my issues, I should say that I love my wife; I'm not angry at her, and I will never leave her. She's a good person, intelligent, attractive, funny, honest, and a good mother. I love my two children (4 year old girl and 2 year old boy) more than anything in the world, and there is absolutely no way that I'm going to let a deteriorating sex life break up our family. They mean everything to me, and I'll be a celibate monk for the rest of my life if that's what it takes to keep my family together.

My wife loves me -- I'm certain of that. She admires me, considers me a success (career-wise), views me as a great father, respects my intellect, asks for and usually follows my career advice and personal advice, etc. She also says I'm attractive, but that's becoming increasingly difficult to believe. I think she's incredibly, incredibly, sexy, and I've never been shy about initiating sex or expressing my attraction and affection in sexual and non-sexual ways. At the same time, she has never hesitated to reject me. And it's not just sex. She almost never touches me, kisses me, tells me that she loves me, or gives me any form of comfort when I'm having a rough day (generally I'm not having a rough day, but my line of work can be stressful on occasion). It's starting to get to me. I'm drinking more than I should. I'm exercising less than I should. I can't focus at work. My self esteem is gradually starting to unravel. 

We've spoken about the issue, and she seems sympathetic. But after our discussions, nothing changes. She continues to be unaffectionate, and sex is a once-a-month or once-every-other-month sort of thing where she shows no interest or passion (the lack of interest and passion is the worst part). On some level, I can't blame her. If she's not attracted to me, then she's not attracted to me. It breaks my heart, but sexual attraction is a tricky thing. 

I've come here because I'm thoroughly desperate. It's more than frustration at this point. The love of my life is becoming increasingly emotionally and sexually unavailable, and I don't know what to do. Any advice is appreciated.

A few odds and ends: (1) neither of us are taking any medication; (2) we're both 36; (3) neither of us is significantly overweight or otherwise suffering from health issues; and (4) we both share child rearing duties (again, my children are the most wonderful things in the world, and I will never risk losing them or hurting them by airing my marital issues in front of them); but (5) she has recently taken the lion's share of child rearing and household chore duties due to my work schedule (about 75% of our income comes from me, and my job is quite demanding). The fifth point might seem to be the root cause of our issues, but our sex life started deteriorating before that point. Also, I need to do well in this job to support my family, so I can't really scale back.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

In the beginning was there strong physical attraction from her to you? Before kids, marriage, etc?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

A couple of quick questions to help get a better idea of where things are, and were.

How was sex before kids? Before marriage? Frequency before and after each?

To the best of your knowledge, does she masturbate, and if so, how often? (you may have to guess at this one). Does she own any sex toys? (vibrator, etc.)

Has she ever initiated sex, or sexual contact with you? Especially prior to children and/or marriage? Or has she always been exactly like this?

Do the two of you ever spend any time alone (ie no kids)? Date nights, weekend away, etc? Do either of you ever get a break from work and/or child-rearing?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

In a sense, your situation seems very familiar to mine. For me though, things have deteriorated due to the kids, in particular our 3rd child who my wife and I have let control our lives. I have never had rejection issues with my wife, but for better or worse the household duties has pretty much overwhelmed her which has had a direct impact on our sex life. I know there are days where my daughter is all over my wife, to the point where by the time we get settled in at night she just wants her space (not directed at me per se, but moreso a reaction from feeling suffocated by a toddler attached to her all day long, or as she calls it she just wants to "crawl out of her skin")

Similar to what others asked though, how was your sex life pre kids? Was it very active, was she very physical with you? If it was are you able to pinpoint exactly when things started to fall apart? Has you wife ever had any tests done to determine if there are possibly physical/hormonal issues?

You mentioned you have discussed this with your wife, and she is sympathetic, but what was her exact response? Was she just meh about the situation, was she able to explain why exactly she has no interest in sex or being physical with you?

The fact that you are resorting to drinking is not a positive, especially when combined with diminishing self esteem. I think you really need to get her to open up about exactly why she feels this way, and then you guys can work from there to come up with a solution. Hopefully it doesn't come down to making difficult decisions, but long run it does not seem like you are in a relationship that is healthy for you.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Since you've announced that you will stay regardless of what she does or doesn't do in the sex department, you have no leverage to motivate her to change. She gets 75% of her support from you. How does neglecting the marriage adversely impact her? 
If you hired on to do a job but you had grown lazy and just quit performing, and your boss told you that despite your laziness, he adored you and you'd have your job for the rest of your life, would you be motivated to alter your behavior even slightly? Odds are pretty good that you'd be so comfortable you'd grow even lazier. 
Seems to me the only way to modify anyone's behavior is to convince them that it's in their best interest to do so. Figure out what she values most about the relationship and link that to the behaviors you want from her. 
"My wife loves me -- I'm certain of that. She admires me, considers me a success (career-wise)" 
Your wife does not behave lovingly toward you, so why would you believe she loves you? She doesn't behave as if she finds you attractive, so why would you believe she does? She considers you a success. Is that another way of saying she values your paycheck? I'd be happy to spend your money, too. That wouldn't make me suitable wife material and it wouldn't be evidence that I give two cents for your needs or well-being. 
What was sex like before the marriage and how soon after the marriage did it change? 
Someone else might commend you for your willingness to John Wayne this thing out and live as a monk. All humans need intimacy. This is already adversely effecting you at work. Regardless of your honorable intentions, if you are deprived long enough, bad things are going to happen. Your health could suffer, your earning potential could drop, you could find yourself in an affair, you could end up despising the mother of your kids. 
Part of being a parent is teaching kids how married people treat each other. What are your kids learning about marriage? They have sense enough to know when there is little love between Mom and Dad. 
Make this a priority and get her on board to do the same. Raising kids in a loveless household isn't doing them any favors. Have your kids ever even seen you function as the complete human being you were meant to be, or do they only get a frustrated half-human as a father? What good is a big, fancy house if there's no love in it? Your well-being and your wife's well-being are crucial to your kids' well-being. Tolerating a sexless marriage is every bit as destructive as causing one. 
Once a month can become once a year pretty easily and that can turn into once every few years. You cannot predict the future and you can't honestly say with certainty that you will never have an affair or that you will never grow to hate your wife. You are human with normal human needs. She may not realize it at the moment but your wife is also human and she also needs human touch, intimacy, and sex. Depriving herself of those needs isn't doing herself any favors, either. You wouldn't let her go for months without eating, even if she had little appetite. A divorce would be injurious to your kids and to you and your wife. An affair would be injurious to all concerned. Being preoccupied with sex at work is a great way to get sued or fired. Functioning as a zombie, just going through the motions of life is a great way to get fired or of dying early.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Since you've announced that you will stay regardless of what she does or doesn't do in the sex department, you have no leverage to motivate her to change...


:iagree:

I see little motivation for her to change, or even begin to try to meet your needs, if there are no "consequences."

Take it from someone who stayed 20 years in a near-sexless marriage. It s*cks. Big time. It is extremely damaging to children. And it doesn't magically get better on its own.

Why not try marriage counseling and/or a sex therapist?

If you don't figure this out now, I see you heading down the same, long, miserable path I did. Resentment will build. And resentment is an ugly, ugly thing .

Spend some time reading threads on this forum from men who turned their sex lives around and got what they wanted. Amplexor and UMP come to mind.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Love can be a feeling or love can be an act. Your wife does not "love" you in the sense that she is not doing anything to demonstrate it. This aspect of love is far more important in a marriage than what she may say or feel.

Your wife got married for a very different reason than you did. You wanted a steady supply of sex. She wanted a steady supply of probably money and sperm to make a few kids and other forms of male assistance. This does not make her a bad person.

So you are providing her with the steady supply of what she needs, but she is not providing you with the steady supply of what you need. Caution: Most guys think they are providing what their wife needs but there really are not doing that. So it's crucial that you figure out if you are not meeting her needs. For this I suggest a book called the 5 Love Languages.

You have to expand your thinking greatly in order to solve your problem. There is an immutable fact between having a sexual marriage and where your are today. 1. Your wife has to really want to be married to you and 2. Your wife has to know that if she is not sexual with you she cannot have the marriage she wants.

I have chosen my words carefully. The marriage she wants. Things are not so black and white that her choice is be sexual or divorce. But she has to relate happiness she receives from being married to you results from what she gives to you.

Right now you are acting out of fear and you are way subservient to your wife and her desires. And no woman is attracted to man who acts this way. If you were to come home from work today and announce that you are quiting your job and taking up drinking full time, what would your wife do? Would she come to this board and say she would not consider divorce?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Crow-- easy thing first.

You say neither of you is way out of shape. Reading between the lines, to me this says you are not in optimal shape.

If you were totally ripped, do you think it would make a difference in how she sees you?

Why not try to find out as a first step?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Crow, 
You seem like a great guy. If your wife KNOWS to her core that you will not leave and KNOWS to her core that you will never cheat, what is going to motivate her to change?
I know, it's something you want her to do on her own, without any threat on your part. 

When I intentionally told my wife that I was ready to leave that's when things started to change.

If a child continues to disobey, continues to do whatever he or she wants to do and there is no accountability, what do you think that child will continue to do? (not saying my wife is a child, just using this as an analogy)

I actually believe that some women, my wife in particular, NEEDED to know that I was man enough to leave if she did not give me great sex.(or at least try and give me a real chance to rock her world) It's almost as if she NEEDED me to do this in order to give me what I want. My wife is NOT attracted to a man that does whatever SHE wants. She is attracted to an independent, successful man, with options. That seems to turn her on. Seriously. 

Once you possess something you have always wanted, it almost always becomes less interesting. As the lyrics of the group "Cake" go:

"Every shiny toy 
That at first brings you joy 
Will always start to cry and annoy" 

Become the man that every woman wants, including your wife.
You can start the process by telling your wife what you expect, what you're going to do about it yourself, and what is going to happen if nothing changes.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Crow, 
Good sex is primal. 
In lower intelligence animals, this is fairly easy to produce. However, man is VERY intelligent and that very intelligence gets in the way of primal action. You need to do whatever it takes to tickle your wifes primal instincts. Sometimes that means doing things that are counter intuitive. You love your wife, you married her, you do everything you can think of for her, yet she is not into you. Why?

Because she does not view you as primal meat. She does not lust after you as she might lust after the gardener. She HAS you in her back pocket. Why bother? She can have you (hamburger) anytime she wants. What she craves is STEAK. Become THAT steak she craves.

We were all viewed as steak to our significant others at some point while dating and possibly early marriage. Life turns us all into hamburger. Knowledge gives us the chance to turn things around to once again be viewed as steak. TAM is the butcher, the posters are tenderizer, and you are the diner. Order the friggen steak.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

If your wife is chronically rejecting you--say, 9/10 times for instance--stop initiating. She doesn't want to have sex with you and you're just hurting yourself. Find out why she doesn't want to have sex with you first, fix that (if possible) and then start initiating again.

Offering a hamburger to a person who doesn't want a hamburger over and over will just get the same results.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

wow--Ump and I both compared sex to hamburgers at pretty much the same time.

I don't even know what that indicates.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I personally think any threat has to have two components to be meaningful:

1. credibility

2. instill fear of a real sense of loss

If she doesn't believe you will really do it, you diminish yourself by pretending you will. You have to know you will leave. Don't bother saying it if you know you won't.

She also needs to realize she will be much worse off without you. So if she is just lukewarm about you, the threat might not even mean much.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> wow--Ump and I both compared sex to hamburgers at pretty much the same time.
> 
> I don't even know what that indicates.


I think it's a sign from God.
Pretty cool :smthumbup:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

All I know is now I am in the mood for sex and burgers ... better not go to the Wendy's which is right next to the Gentlemen's club ....


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> All I know is now I am in the mood for sex and burgers ... better not go to the Wendy's which is right next to the Gentlemen's club ....


I've actually been to one that has both!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> I've actually been to one that has both!


Haha, the club by me was advertising their new steakhouse in the club ... even better the club is right next to a daycare center 

Decided to get Chipotle instead for lunch :smthumbup: Will pick up some ground beef and flowers to bring home tonight, hopefully go at least 1 for 2!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> wow--Ump and I both compared sex to hamburgers at pretty much the same time.
> 
> I don't even know what that indicates.


:lol:


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> I've actually been to one that has both!


A strip joint with burgers? Or a burger joint with strippers? 

:rofl:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There are people on this earth who are more than delighted to treat you just as shabbily as you are prepared to tolerate. If you are willing to be a slave, there's someone who will be happy to own you. If you are willing to tolerate no affection from a spouse, some are happy to oblige. There are two ways to get decent treatment from others. You can be lucky enough to find one who will treat you decently or you can demand decent treatment.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

If only the burger joint would begin to repeatedly reject us all except once a month, but our wives found ways to make sex more addictive, had the equivalent to a "dollar menu" in the bedroom and stayed open past midnight...

The world would look like:


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Crow said:


> Before I get started, let me say a few introductory things. First, thanks for reading this. My story likely is so commonplace that it's boring, but I've run out of ideas, so I've come here to get help. Second, before I get into my issues, I should say that I love my wife; I'm not angry at her, and I will never leave her. She's a good person, intelligent, attractive, funny, honest, and a good mother. I love my two children (4 year old girl and 2 year old boy) more than anything in the world, and *there is absolutely no way that I'm going to let a deteriorating sex life break up our family. They mean everything to me, and I'll be a celibate monk for the rest of my life if that's what it takes to keep my family together.*
> 
> My wife loves me -- I'm certain of that. She admires me, considers me a success (career-wise), views me as a great father, respects my intellect, asks for and usually follows my career advice and personal advice, etc. She also says I'm attractive, but that's becoming increasingly difficult to believe. I think she's incredibly, incredibly, sexy, and I've never been shy about initiating sex or expressing my attraction and affection in sexual and non-sexual ways. At the same time, she has never hesitated to reject me. And it's not just sex. She almost never touches me, kisses me, tells me that she loves me, or gives me any form of comfort when I'm having a rough day (generally I'm not having a rough day, but my line of work can be stressful on occasion). It's starting to get to me. I'm drinking more than I should. I'm exercising less than I should. I can't focus at work. My self esteem is gradually starting to unravel.
> 
> ...



Until you are willing to risk everything....Nothing is going to change. 

Stop telling yourself that if nothing changes you will stay and just be a "celibate Monk". Thats not fair to you or her. Don't think for a minute that your wife is not a sexual person or would happily live out her life without sex.....I call Bull $hit on that. 

You are going to have to be willing to change the dynamics of your relationship. It sounds like you are currently unwilling to do so. 

Should you change your mind about that -there are MANY ways to get the ball rolling in the direction you want to go.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

If you are not willing to change anything, then nothing will change.

There is no magic wand.

Trying to change her without changing yourself is futile. 

You can only control you.

Change you.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Your wife got married for a very different reason than you did. You wanted a steady supply of sex. She wanted a steady supply of probably money and sperm to make a few kids and other forms of male assistance. This does not make her a bad person.


Oh yes it does! She broke the marriage contract with the OP and expects him to uphold his end: hold down a stressful job, pay for everything and on top of that accept a life without sex. This is where today's concept of marriage and divorce breaks down, there is no consequences for women who decide they don't want to uphold their end of marriage and the only alternative for men is to give up all their money and live without their kids. 

It really does make me ill to read about guys like the OP who have a wife who is putting them through hell and can get away with it.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

peacem said:


> Besides the sex, it sounds like you have good foundations to build upon.


What's the ""good foundation"? 

This?

"At the same time, she has never hesitated to reject me. And it's not just sex. She almost never touches me, kisses me, tells me that she loves me, or gives me any form of comfort when I'm having a rough day"


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Oh yes it does! She broke the marriage contract with the OP and expects him to uphold his end: hold down a stressful job, pay for everything and on top of that accept a life without sex. This is where today's concept of marriage and divorce breaks down, there is no consequences for women who decide they don't want to uphold their end of marriage and the only alternative for men is to give up all their money and live without their kids.
> 
> It really does make me ill to read about *guys like the OP who have a wife who is putting them through hell and can get away with it.*


It sounds like the OP is putting up with it. If it really was hell, for him, he wouldn't put up with it. 

It sounds more like an issue of attraction- OP needs to give up some additional info to get much help. 

Like....How was sex at first, when did it change, how often does he initiate, how does he initiate, how does she decline, how does he act when she declines, how does she react to his reaction, and so forth.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

MarriedDude said:


> It sounds like the OP is putting up with it. If it really was hell, for him, he wouldn't put up with it.


hmmm ok so drinking too much is putting up with it? Like I wrote, if he did want to put up with it, what's his alternative...he doesn't have one.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Hicks said:


> Love can be a feeling or love can be an act. Your wife does not "love" you in the sense that she is not doing anything to demonstrate it. This aspect of love is far more important in a marriage than what she may say or feel.
> 
> Love that doesn't act lovingly is called a lie. Someone who calls themselves a runner but never runs isn't a runner. Someone who runs regularly is a runner, regardless of what they call themselves. The opposite of love is not hate. It's indifference. If she behaves as though she is indifferent to the success of the relationship and of his well-being, she's not feeling love for him. Maybe at some very low level she appreciates his earning potential. More likely, she assumes she is entitled to it and that it will always be there, rather like a pension.


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## Crow (Apr 23, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> In the beginning was there strong physical attraction from her to you? Before kids, marriage, etc?


We've been together for 14 years. I would say that our attraction in the beginning was very strong, but our sex life gradually dwindled over the years. The dwindling started after marriage and accelerated when we had kids, but not precipitously. 

Regarding the many suggestions that I threaten to leave, I can't do this, even though I recognize that it may work. I don't like to lie, and I could never honestly threaten to leave my family. My relationship with my children -- and their home life -- is more important to me than sex or anything else. I can't jeopardize that under any circumstances. Yes, this leaves me in a bit of a bind, but nothing can be done there (which is why I'm here, I guess).

Regarding the hamburger comments, I'm officially hungry right now! 

Thanks to all for the advice. I'll read and respond more later. My schedule is a bit hectic, but I truly appreciate the input.


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## Crow (Apr 23, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> Crow-- easy thing first.
> 
> You say neither of you is way out of shape. Reading between the lines, to me this says you are not in optimal shape.
> 
> ...


Ha ha. Actually, there was a time in our early marriage when I was in really good shape. Getting in shape didn't do much for my sex life (it was ok back then, but nothing great), so that probably won't work. 

Now about that hamburger.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Crow,
I am you. Just 16 years in the future. My kids are 20 and 18. I have just recently started posting on here for the EXACT same situation and to get advice.

If a better sex life is important enough to make a change, then start the changing now. Otherwise, you are just wasting precious years of which we only have so many.

If, like you say, your family takes priority over your sex life. Then, consume yourself with family. That's what I did. I survived. 

Only, now I am questioning if I am better or worse for the wear.

Sorry, probably no help, but I empathize with you. I am still searching for my answers, too.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Read this thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/192194-im-tired-trying.html

This situation can usually be turned around.


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