# Vhd -> -> nd



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

My wife and I have been together some 25 years and married 19 years. 
Even at the beginning the sex was never mind blowing. When we met she was a virgin and had very little 'experience'. She didn't like kissing and thought giving oral was disgusting (she has never done it) but enjoyed receiving.

Although the sex was very 'vanilla' - even in total privacy she could never let go and enjoy the moment. I often had to ask her if she had orgasmed because there was no visual or audible clue...we would have sex a couple of times a week, but she would often reject my advances.

Over the past 19 years we have had two children and sex dwindled year by year. 
If I suggested sex outside or tell her how much I would love her to BJ me or even just nibble my scrotum I would be called a disgusting pervert etc. She was rejecting my advances more and more to the point that I stopped initiating.

Until about two years ago we might have sex 6-8 times a year. She would say 'I'm feeling horny'...I would jump at the opportunity even though it was even more vanilla - no kissing her lips or nipples, no touching in the southern hemisphere. Basically she would pull my c0ck till hard, lube up and.....3 minutes later all over.

Over the past two years I have lost complete and utter interest in her altogether both sexually and emotionally.

On the odd occasion that she tries to initiate *I* am the one who now turns her down. Her attitude towards me and sex had changed me from very high drive to no drive atall. When I wake up in teh morning with a boner its kinda 'phew! he still works!'

I am now the guilty one for changing our marriage from 'sexless' at 6-8 times a year to completely sexless at zero times a year. Its my fault.

I stay because of our two children, who mean more to me than sex...but when they leave the nest, I'm not staying with a woman with whom I have absolutely nothing in common with anymore.

Apart from just wanting to vent a bit - I spent alot of last night unable to sleep feeling angry and resentful towards my wife...
I'd also be interested to hear from any other husbands, or wives, who, due to their spouses attitude etc, have also ended up taking their marriage from sexless to *completely* sexless.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

This is my story almost verbatim - every little detail except for the fact that your wife occasionally initiated. In that department I'm kind of jealous you get to deny. 

The reason for this reply is to simply commiserate - I'm exactly the same in terms of interest. I went from 5-6 times a year to rounded down zero. It's been about 10 months I don't even get turned on when porn comes on the tv late at night. I feel I've been castrated and if / when I think about it I get upset. I feel like I've become a guardian and its bull**** ! 

Can't really give any advice as I'm as mind boggled as you probably are
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Personal....yes I said the sex was always 'vanilla' but atleast at the beginning it was about twice a week....maybe not great but certainly not bad either.

Yes I knew she didn't kiss or 'blow' but she was a virgin when we met...I think I hoped that over time she might 'loosen' up a bit and relax....be a little more adventurous. 
I used to hate and refuse to eat prawns...as I got older and more adventurous I tried one...mmmmm...now I love them!

I always thought that when in love you do things for the other person....I didn't always 'get off' on going down on my wife but I did it because she liked it and I loved her....OK if she doesnt want to give me a BJ then maybe a nibble - kinda meeting half way.

I have been with probably 7 women in my life and I have always known by change in breathing, body movement etc when they have orgasmed. And I'm not a stud either!

My wife and I do not fight, we just no longer connect...we still share the same 7ft square bed etc. Of course the children don't know that we no longer have sex.

When they both fly the nest - about 3-5 years time then there will be no reason for us to stay together....unless of course things change between now and then.
Yes we've done the MC stuff....but she didnt think there was anything to fix......and probably thinks that the reason I have gone off sex is because I'm 50 and going through the male menopause!

I don't think for one second that she might think she has anything to do with it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Does your wife know how serious this is? That you're planning to end things as the kids leave? I would think she deserves to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Does your wife know how serious this is? That you're planning to end things as the kids leave? I would think she deserves to know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well, that would defeat the purpose now would it not? 

They don't understand ergo they're not putting the effort to understand ergo they don't deserve a warning shot across the bow. Just a torpedo or two...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> Well, that would defeat the purpose now would it not?
> 
> They don't understand ergo they're not putting the effort to understand ergo they don't deserve a warning shot across the bow. Just a torpedo or two...


Interesting. So wives who come on and complain that they're detaching and planning to leave because they've repeatedly asked for what they need without response aren't advised to let hubby know serious it is because men need to be hit over the head? And if she doesn't she'll become a waw who blindsided hubby because he figured it was typical "nagging" and had no idea it was that serious? Then everyone feels bad for him because he had no idea and if he gets on he's told she probably has someone else? Or is it that men's sex lives are in their own protected class? 

I'm not saying he shouldn't go, it seems that they're not really compatible so it might be best for both of them. Only that she deserves to not be blindsided like women are generally advised not to do to their husbands. 

She hasn't been dishonest or abusive, they are simply not compatible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muse1976 (Apr 25, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Interesting. So wives who come on and complain that they're detaching and planning to leave because they've repeatedly asked for what they need without response aren't advised to let hubby know serious it is because men need to be hit over the head? And if she doesn't she'll become a waw who blindsided hubby because he figured it was typical "nagging" and had no idea it was that serious? Then everyone feels bad for him because he had no idea and if he gets on he's told she probably has someone else? Or is it that men's sex lives are in their own protected class?
> 
> I'm not saying he shouldn't go, it seems that they're not really compatible so it might be best for both of them. Only that she deserves to not be blindsided like women are generally advised not to do to their husbands.
> 
> ...




Playing Devils advocate here. 

Why would they notify the other party when for all intents a purposes, it's likely to backfire on them? Why should they not wait to separate until the kids are done? Her reply, well why wait until then. It's nor like she has anything to loose. I mean it's not like the wife would intentionally run them through the wringer because good lord knows she has been forth coming in the honesty department either. Or would she??? 

Aka - why let her fvck up my plans even more?


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## Muse1976 (Apr 25, 2015)

john117 said:


> Well, that would defeat the purpose now would it not?
> 
> They don't understand ergo they're not putting the effort to understand ergo they don't deserve a warning shot across the bow. Just a torpedo or two...


The h3ll with the torpedo. Bring out the nuke!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Vhd -&gt; -&gt; nd*

Torpedo is the term we came up with here in TAM. The liberal arts major in me sees a nuke as a destroy everything, no survivors type capability that let's the world know who did what to whom. A torpedo is a far more sinister single issue type tool. Nobody knows what it was or where it came from, or what's next. 

 for the metaphorically challenged


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I don't know why you are so resentful. She didn't do a bait and switch, she was LL when you met her, you married her, had children with her, did you think she would suddenly want to kiss, perform oral on you and have sex often? Usually sex declines with marriage and especially children. You signed up for this trip. You should be angry at yourself.

You aren't even working to try to reconnect with her you are just rejecting her when she initiates and then you are going to divorce her because she is LL? That's not fair you should at least try to rekindle your sex life. Let her know how you feel so she has a chance to make you happy sexually.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Vhd -&gt; -&gt; nd*

Many of us have tried to rekindle our love lives (cough cough). One really can't understand what it feels like to be married to someone with desire solidly in the "off" position. Not LD, not "he's not doing the dishes so no luck for him", but more like, "let him wash an entire high school cafeteria's worth of dishes, ain't happenin' either".


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Interesting. So wives who come on and complain that they're detaching and planning to leave because they've repeatedly asked for what they need without response aren't advised to let hubby know serious it is because men need to be hit over the head? And if she doesn't she'll become a waw who blindsided hubby because he figured it was typical "nagging" and had no idea it was that serious? Then everyone feels bad for him because he had no idea and if he gets on he's told she probably has someone else? Or is it that men's sex lives are in their own protected class?
> 
> I'm not saying he shouldn't go, it seems that they're not really compatible so it might be best for both of them. Only that she deserves to not be blindsided like women are generally advised not to do to their husbands.


Could you please bring specific examples of threads where members engaged in this double standard behavior?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

askari,

Aside from her lack of desire for sex, is your wife such a truly horrible person to deserve a walk away without notice from you?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

*Vhd -&gt; -&gt; nd*



askari said:


> Over the past two years I have lost complete and utter interest in her altogether both sexually and emotionally.



Gotta call bs when I see it. When someone has no interest, they don't make posts like this. You are the opposite of indifferent. You're desperate.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> askari,
> 
> Aside from her lack of desire for sex, is your wife such a truly horrible person to deserve a walk away without notice from you?


His pleas have fallen on deaf ears for years. How could she deserve any more than he has given her? Those of you who try to make this a gender issue need to know that it can go either way.
She would have to have more issues than just being anti-sexual not to see where this "marriage" has been heading.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Vhd -&gt; -&gt; nd*



WorkingOnMe said:


> Gotta call bs when I see it. When someone has no interest, they don't make posts like this. You are the opposite of indifferent. You're desperate.



Hardly. I share his sentiment. Once you're free of having to play games with your spouse about basic needs you see things much clearer. 

Let's say a wife is having a PA and feeds hubbs the crumbs or nothing. If hubbs tries to make and keep a connection where none exists, he will get hurt bad long term. At least here he knows where he stands. Without the blinds of "hope" he's free to detach, think, plot, and machinate all he wants. 

Torpedoes go underwater for a reason.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

*Re: Vhd -&gt; -&gt; nd*



john117 said:


> Torpedo is the term we came up with here in TAM. The liberal arts major in me sees a nuke as a destroy everything, no survivors type capability that let's the world know who did what to whom. A torpedo is a far more sinister single issue type tool. Nobody knows what it was or where it came from, or what's next.
> 
> for the metaphorically challenged


Oooo John you're so evil! Mwahhahahah. :lol:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

hookares said:


> His pleas have fallen on deaf ears for years. How could she deserve any more than he has given her? Those of you who try to make this a gender issue need to know that it can go either way.
> She would have to have more issues than just being anti-sexual not to see where this "marriage" has been heading.


I understand your point, but I still would like to read what askari has to say.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

morituri said:


> askari,
> 
> Aside from her lack of desire for sex, is your wife such a truly horrible person to deserve a walk away without notice from you?


Yeah, it does seem kind of harsh.

Askari, you're in a bad, sad and miserable situation. I don't think it's totally FUBAR yet though otherwise you wouldn't be posting here.

I challenge you to have an honesty chat with her. I'm all for honesty with your spouse. Invite her to the bedroom and lay it all out for her exactly like you told us. Her reaction to you telling her that you are leaving her in a few years will tell you alot about how much she cares about you.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Honest chats don't work. People over 50 should be limited to ABC sex after all - anniversary, birthday, and Christmas.

Feel free to chat your tonsils out.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

john117 said:


> Honest chats don't work. People over 50 should be limited to ABC sex after all - anniversary, birthday, and Christmas.
> 
> Feel free to chat your tonsils out.


That would depend on who you're chatting with and what is being said. At the moment we know that Askari's wife does not know that he plans on leaving her. That the sword of damocles is hanging over her head. I think this is a good opportunity to clue her in and have it out. Maybe, this would mean the leaving date would be brought forward. Why wait if you truely feel the marriage is over?

ABC sex - Afternoon, Breakfast and take your Chance sex.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

askari,

Your grown children will be witnesses of your departure from their mother's life. How you proceed in leaving her will affect the way they view you. So keep that in mind.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

OR if you have an honest talk with her about how you feel and what it means for the future of the marriage, then maybe you will see a change, the least you could do is let her know.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I will try to answer one by one;

Lifeistooshort - I have not told her of my plans. Alot can happen in 3-5 years time. Our MC asked her how she saw things in 'x' years time when the children had left?...she shrugged her shoulders.

Personal - as I have already said, sex during our first five years of marriage was about twice a week - which WE were more or less happy with. I also said that I hoped that she might 'come round' to oral sex knowing how much it meant to me. I was wrong.

Happily Married - no she didn't bait and switch. She is also a generally 'nice' person but, as our MC said, she seems to spend much of her time in another place. Its like the lights are on but no one is in. She shows very little emotion. 
We spent two years going top MC - each of us once a week then a joint session once a month. 
She said that trying to get through to my wife was very difficult, in that she had massive walls up around her and wouldn't let anyone in.
She needed to embrace life, her sexuality etc and enjoy things and not recede into her protective shell all the time.

When the subject of sex in marriage came up my wife simply stopped going. Sex is not important to her so why should it be to me? I continued for a couple of years because I wanted to work on ME.

Mori - as said in my above to Happily - no she is not a 'nasty' person atall...she just spends so much of her life 'checked out'. To make a marriage and indeed life work, you have to do things. As with all marriages we have our household responsibilities; I make sure the cars are insured, serviced etc, make sure we have firewood etc the usual. She has her responsibilities. "why do we not have any electricity?" "I forgot to pay the bill so they switched us off. Sorry"...this has happened more than once. Is she lazy or did she forget deliberately so that I would end up saying 'OK, I'll do it from now on' so she has even less to do? 
She doesn't like responsibility for anything.....she will often blame other people. eg. The reason she didn't pay the electricity bill was because *I* didn't remind her to.

Hookares - no she does not deserve for me to simply walk away. I am not perfect, but I try. I have tried to do atleast my share of making our marriage work. If your partner went off sex with you altogether wouldn't you think there was something wrong? MAybe medical, getting sex elsewhere etc? Not once has my wife asked me why I am no longer interested in sex. Perhaps she is happy that I'm not, perhaps she really doesn't care?
Instead of growing closer over the years we have grown apart, not just sexually but emotionally too. Although we are both western European we are different nationalities, we have completely different sense of humour, completely different food tastes (she likes the 'rustic' peasant type solid food, but is a vegetarian) etc. She likes watching soap operas etc I am more a Nat Geo/Discovery person.
I watch the news once/twice a day so I know what is going on...she had no idea that Nepal had 2 earthquakes or that Texas is flooding.

Fizzbomb - I have tried talking to my wife over the years both seriously as in heart to heart and also on a lighter pitch. When I raise the subject of sex she basically refuses to talk about it just saying that it really isn't important to her. When I say it is to me she just says 'sorry'. 
When I talk about household responsibilities etc she just says that it is normal to forget things...even if they are important things like paying the electricity.
The thing is, if she forgets to pay the electricity, water etc and we get cut off it affects the whole family. If it only affected her then I wouldn't mind.

On the sex front...twice a week isn't too bad. But over the years it dropped to once a week, then twice a month etc. Whenever I would try to initiate I would be rejected so I stopped. Sex was always when she wanted it and how she wanted it. 
I would always accept it gracefully....like a dog accepting scraps from the table. Over time I became less interested, perhaps I started having more pride? Perhaps I was cutting off my nose to spite my face? Perhaps me now rejecting her is me paying her back for all the times she has rejected me when I have wanted sex? I don't know.

What I do know though is that it doesnt seem to bother her a jot that I am no longer interested in having sex with her. If your partner went off sex with you wouldn't you want to know why etc?


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Feel for you, Askari. I'm in somewhat the same boat (some differences, but overall about the same) and about the same age (you're a couple of years older). We never have sex (she'd rather sleep than have sex, sex is too much work, et al), and I've noticed in the past month or so that my drive went from fairly HD (which I would take care in the shower) to damn near zero. We used to have frequent sex (not a ton, but enough that I knew when it was that time of month so we'd be on hiatus for several days).

My wife is like Askari's in that she tries to blame me for the lack of sex - in our case, she says that I never initiate. When I do initiate, I get some variation of "I'm really tired", "I need a couple of drinks to loosen up", etc. Thus, I stopped initiating. If she wants to have sex, she knows where to find me. 

The problem is when you're incompatible in the relationship (which Askari says he is, and my wife and I are), lack of sex is just a symptom. I'm to the point that I don't even like to spend time with my wife. My best days are when I can take the kids out all day to play without Mommy around - there's no stress, no complaining about kids whining, no blow-ups that I parked in the wrong spot two spots over from where she wants to park.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Oh Charlie...yup same thing regading taking the children out. If its just me and the two of them we have a laugh...often laughing so much that it hurts! 

Whenever Mummy is with us she puts a dampner on things...she shouts at us and accuses us of being stupid....we're not hurting or offending anyone!
She will laugh for days if someone slips on a banana skin.....


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

askari said:


> Oh Charlie...yup same thing regading taking the children out. If its just me and the two of them we have a laugh...often laughing so much that it hurts!
> 
> Whenever Mummy is with us she puts a dampner on things...she shouts at us and accuses us of being stupid....we're not hurting or offending anyone!
> She will laugh for days if someone slips on a banana skin.....


Yep, sounds sadly familiar. Laughing is the best. My kids are small, but it's so fun to see them having fun. If they whine, then ride it out - they often stop and forget why they were whining, especially if we're outside. Mommy will get mad and throw a tantrum if they whine, and we don't need that. 

Regarding how you don't want sex with your wife anymore, as I stated above, I've found my drive greatly diminish. If our hot little neighbor (40 year old adult, BTW) or my wife's close HD friend climbed on top of me wearing a sexy outfit wanting me to help them take it off so we could get it on, I'm not sure I could do the deed - it's gotten that bad.

Also saw your big answer above regarding her viewing preferences - sounds eerily like my wife. Mine has no clue what's going on in the world - she can tell you what everyone is doing via Facebook, but no idea about how ISIS is ravaging the Middle East.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

askari, 
I understand how you feel, however, I think you need to tell your wife exactly what is going on. That's what I did. Basically, "honey, I love you and I want to have a satisfying sex life with you. I will do everything I can to achieve this goal and I expect you to do the same. If you do not try and we do not succeed in achieving this goal, I will leave."

Short and to the point. At least you are telling a dead in the water ship, "the torpedo is coming, get off the boat or suffer the consequences."

I essentially told my wife that I could no longer live the way we were living. I made it very clear. It was up to both of us to change in order to make it agreeable for both of us.

My wife got a little more adventurous and frequent and I got better at lovemaking to make certain I was pleasing her. It worked.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ok, so it does seem you've told her how serious things are. She shouldn't be shocked when you bolt, that's all I was getting at. I only asked the question because I see this a lot with unhappy wives. .... they've told hubby for years what they need and are ignored but didn't directly tell him they're leaving. Then when they do they're a waw who probably has someone else and everyone feels bad for poor hubby who had no idea. 

But I happen to believe that what people do when they're not under threat matters the most. I don't do things to make hb happy because he might divorce me, I do them because he's my hb and I want him to be happy. I don't want him doing things for me just so I don't divorce him. 

It does sound like you're not compatible, and if she's shocked that's on her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Vhd -&gt; -&gt; nd*



Personal said:


> Does your wife suffer from depression or any other mental illness?



"does a bear take a Readers Digest magazine to the woods?"


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## fitchick1961 (May 5, 2015)

I have a fairly low drive, always have, due to some childhood issues. I enjoy sex when I'm doing it, but would never initiate it, and could never verbalize how I wanted it, or how it made me feel. I dont really think much about sex at all. My husband who had higher drive, became very frustrated with me for these reasons, and we had numerous discussions, where I would promise to try harder about it, but never worked for long. Bottom line is, my husband and I are reconciling after 3 year separation. Since I love him and I know sex and cuddling etc is very important to him, I am willing to work on it, even to extent of seeing md to see if I can figure out some things. When I was in the marriage, due to some of issues going on I didn't care enough to try very hard. Maybe if your wife knew where this was leading she might be willing to work on it, but I dont know. When someone completely shuts down around issue of sex, there are other issues going on.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Does your wife suffer from depression or any other mental illness?


Personal - she was on prozac for about a year 15 years ago (baby blues etc) not nothing since. 

Our MC thinks that she might have a very mild form of epilepsy where the only manifestation is that she completely checks out. There is no writhing on the floor etc she simply checks out of the here and now.

She used to work for a major international airline and is now a teacher so she isn't 'stupid'....she just switches off whenever she can. Far less mental energy needed watching some inane soap than remembering to pay the electricity bill or watch the news.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Fitchick - good for you!!! 
I know some people are just less interested in sex than others. On the whole women like to be shown that they are loved by being brought breakfast in bed, flowers, have a candle lit hot bath run for them, back scrubbed etc etc. Men are very simple creatures...you love us and want to show us that you do? Have sex with us!
Its how we bond. We will show you we love you in your language, you show us in our language.

Good for you that you and your husband are trying again with you now realising just how important sex is to a man.

Our MC gave my wife an article written by a female Australian professor....she explained over about 8 pages just how important sex is to a man. Its how we bond, its what makes us male.
She said that when a couple come to see her she will ask the wife what she wants from her husband...the replies are; help with cooking, do some ironing, empty the dishwasher more often, do the laundry more often, come home from work earlier, learn where the vacuum cleaner is...

She then asks the husband the same, to which the reply is often; I wish she would have sex with me more often.

My wife read the article/report then tossed it aside saying it was written by a man who just wanted more sex. She wasn't/isn't even prepared to even try to start understanding....


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

*Vhd -&gt; -&gt; nd*

I believe your children will think this is the norm for marriage unless you do something to get out and work on yourself... Seek what you want in life and relationships moving forward and accept no less.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Repeatedly not paying things like bills when money isn't the issue stands out and made me wonder if she's depressed.
> 
> I've never thought mental illness is the preserve of the 'stupid', you haven't written anything that makes me think your wife or anyone is else for that matter.
> 
> I will also add just in case you think I am hostile to your plight, I can assure you I will be very pleased if I hear/read that you have finally got yourself to a happier place.


Personal...I didn't come on here just for a load of 'awww....Poor you' etc! 

I wish I knew why my wife is like she is. Why she checks out...why she is emotionless, why she doesn't care what my needs are..why she doesn't accept her responsibilities in the home...??

I often think that she deliberately forgets to do things - like pay the electricity - because she knows it will annoy me and I will then take over doing it = less for her to do = more time to spend with the fairies or watching bloody TV!
I often get home at 6.30pm and have to start cooking dinner from absolute scratch...'Sorry, I forgot to turn the oven on'...'sorry I forgot to buy potatoes'...'sorry, I finished the milk'....If I react she comes back saying that all she is is human..we all forget things...but of course I am the bad guy for reacting. Passive aggression.
Far easier to go through life not expecting her to do ANYTHING and just do it all myself...because then I know things WILL get done and life will 'work'!...and no need for candles, torches etc!!!!!

All I want - as does everyone - is a wife who is 'here', on the ball, will massage my stiff neck without saying 'only if you do my back afterwards', accepts that things need doing to make life work, be aware of my needs and accept that marriage takes two to work....
But I think we (she) is beyond that now....she would rather be in fluffy bunny land!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Life is QFT




lifeistooshort said:


> Interesting. So wives who come on and complain that they're detaching and planning to leave because they've repeatedly asked for what they need without response aren't advised to let hubby know serious it is because men need to be hit over the head? And if she doesn't she'll become a waw who blindsided hubby because he figured it was typical "nagging" and had no idea it was that serious? Then everyone feels bad for him because he had no idea and if he gets on he's told she probably has someone else? Or is it that men's sex lives are in their own protected class?
> 
> I'm not saying he shouldn't go, it seems that they're not really compatible so it might be best for both of them. Only that she deserves to not be blindsided like women are generally advised not to do to their husbands.
> 
> ...


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