# Finally a clinical "study" done about Opposite Sex Friends



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*It's Official*

Like men didn't already know this ...

Men and Women Can't be 'Just Friends' - Yahoo! News


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

*Re: It's Official*

before i even read i bet its the males fault. yeah i can believe that lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*

Now that someone wrote it down it must be true!


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*Re: It's Official*

*I have not read it yet . I think it is funny how people keep telling us what most already no.*


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: It's Official*

How often do we see 'Can men and women just be friends?' threads around here.

For a person being dismissive of their spouses concern, well ... this is a pretty good reference pointing out exactly what everyone already knew, as a few posters point out.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

And as we often see on this site, the results are what you'd expect.

Women aren't attracted to the male friend but men are VERY often attracted to their female friend. 

Here's the article
Men and Women Can't be 'Just Friends' - Yahoo! News

Now my personal feeling is it depends on the depth of the friendship. Men can be FRIENDLY with women or be what I would call an acquaintance with women without there being romantic interest, but 95% (most but not all) of men who are "close" friends with women are really just trying to get something romantic started.

Ladies, all of your close male friends, I'd say 19 out of 20 of them want you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I hardly have any male friends but after reading on TAM so much and all of these "studies," I no longer see opposite-sex friendships the way I used to.

What about dudes who have a lot of "close" female friends?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Interesting. I think my boyfriend's female friends fall into the 'acquaintance' category. I don't get the feeling he confides in them but instead is a sounding board for them. One he maintains because she is primarily friends with the STBXW and they have more of a business relationship but he keeps in touch for informational purposes.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm with JB on this one... I used to have a lot of guy friends, but I figured the (sometimes) hard way that they all wanted more than friendship. 

I'm learning to be friends with women - lol!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Ladies, all of your close male friends, I'd say 19 out of 20 of them want you.


Which (as a woman) is only a real problem if you want them back and aren't single.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Interesting. I think my boyfriend's female friends fall into the 'acquaintance' category. I don't get the feeling he confides in them but instead is a sounding board for them. One he maintains because she is primarily friends with the STBXW and they have more of a business relationship but he keeps in touch for informational purposes.


:iagree:








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*

I love this subject. The men of TAM/these threads have truly opened my eyes to these friendships.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*



sandc said:


> Now that someone wrote it down it must be true!


Especially since it's on the internet!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: It's Official*

wasn't this proven in the 80's? with that movie?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

It is a paper, and the critical part is that it needs peer review, frankly. Also - the website headlines totally misrepresent what the paper actually says. No surprise there.

There is the original paper:
http://bleske-rechek.com/April Website Files/Bleske-Rechek et al. 2012 Benefit or Burden.pdf

_*In summary, Study 2 offered support for the hypothesis that experiences in cross-sex friendship correspond to age differences in likelihood of being actively engaged in mate search. Young and middle-aged adults generally reported less attraction to their crosssex friends than emerging adults did, but those age differences disappeared among single participants. Single men across age groups reported relatively high levels of attraction to
their cross-sex friend, and single women across age groups reported moderate levels of attraction to their cross-sex friend.*_

etc. There is more.

As usual - Yahoo and internet sites that pick up on these things simply grab headlines by stating _*"Men and Women Cant be Just Friends"*_ which is not at all what the paper says. Its subtle, more complicated than that and merely suggests tendancies. Note it is primarily related to single people.

If you are really interested - at least read the discussion at the end of the paper to get a better feel for what they are actually saying. At least - thats what I think.


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## Airbus (Feb 8, 2012)

Study or no study, I have enough life experience on both sides of this debate to say that true platonic friendships between men and women are rare. All my life, I have to admit that most of my guy friends have wanted more, and as for the female friends of my SOs over the years? If most of my guy friends wanted more with me, I'd be a fool to think that my boyfriends ONLY wanted platonic friendship with their female friends. They're just keeping their options open, IMO.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> What about dudes who have a lot of "close" female friends?


Depends. If the dude has trouble meeting/keeping gf's, then maybe this is his way of lurking in the shadows, with the hope that he can turn one of these friends into a gf. In his mind, if he just does everything they ask, they'll eventually throw themselves at him.

If he's a player, he's just keeping a bunch of options open.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I hardly have any male friends but after reading on TAM so much and all of these "studies," I no longer see opposite-sex friendships the way I used to.
> 
> What about dudes who have a lot of "close" female friends?


I think blindly drawing any conclusions based on reading TAM is a horrible, horrible mistake. Dont ever forget that this place is overpopulated with people seeking help for damaged, difficult and broken relationships.

That isnt a bad thing.. that is why its here among other things. 

There are a quarter of a million posts in the 'coping with infidelity' forum, and three thousand in long-term success. Its a mistake to try and evaluate what 'healthy' and 'normal' is here unless you keep that 80-to-1 dysfunctional-to-successful posting ratio in mind, and what it suggests about the crowd perspective on this site.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*

Huh. I just posted on this elsewhere:

No. Its not 'official'

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...e-about-opposite-sex-friends.html#post1162080



anotherguy said:


> It is a paper, and the critical part is that it needs peer review, frankly. Also - the website headlines totally misrepresent what the paper actually says. No surprise there.
> 
> There is the original paper:
> http://bleske-rechek.com/April Website Files/Bleske-Rechek et al. 2012 Benefit or Burden.pdf
> ...


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

sandc said:


> Now that someone wrote it down it must be true!


Its on the internet...it must be true!








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If a straight guy is going out of his way to hang out with a non-relative female and there's no monetary gain in it for him, he'd like to get into her knickers. If you see a lion in close proximity to a gazelle, you're looking at a predator and a meal.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*



Deejo said:


> How often do we see 'Can men and women just be friends?' threads around here.
> 
> For person being dismissive of their spouses concern, well ... this is a pretty good reference pointing out exactly what everyone already knew, as a few posters point out.


Disagree. If by this you mean that men and women 'cant be friends' outside of a committed relationship, then I call BS.

And if you are going to use 'evidence' from TAM threads to suport your position, than I believe that is just a mistake to use an 80-1 posting ratio of infidelity to long-term success as an indicator of what 'everyone already knows'.

Deejo - keep your head on man. Dont let this place screw up your perspective - and never take an internet headline at face value when it is reporting on papers like this. They are, without exception... as bad as email chain letters... never accurate.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*



Jellybeans said:


> I love this subject. The men of TAM/these threads have truly opened my eyes to these friendships.


I say - you are being hoodwinked. But of course - everyone knows my position on it by now!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: It's Official*



anotherguy said:


> Huh. I just posted on this elsewhere:
> 
> No. Its not 'official'
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...e-about-opposite-sex-friends.html#post1162080


Semantics.

Do men and women look for ways to interact without a sexual relationship being the focus? Of course they do ... we call it marriage. 

Feelings of attraction or sexual undertones at some point factor into to most opposite gender relationships.

And for a large majority of the people on this site coping with infidelity or betrayal, a staggering number of them are no doubt familiar with the refrain; "He/She is just a friend."

Are there opposite sex friendships? Yes.
Is sex and attraction completely absent from the relationship on the part of both parties? Not bloody likely.

Do we need academia to 'prove' this to us? Personally, I don't think so.

I'll merge the threads.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*



anotherguy said:


> I say - you are being hoodwinked.



I don't think I am being hoodwinked at all. I see opposite-sex friendships differently now and that is a fact.

Looking back on my life, pretty much every male friend I've ever had has tried to flirt with me at some point or made some sexual comment. 

I'm not saying I don't think men and women can't be friends, I'm just saying I now think most men probably would go there if given the chance, including my male friends.

The theory was confirmed for me when I when discussing this subject, opposite-sex-friendships, with one of my only male friends a few months ago. He told me that, "Yes" he would have sex with me and wanted to. 

After that... I totally see things in a new light.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: It's Official*



Jellybeans said:


> I don't think I am being hoodwinked at all.
> 
> Looking back on my life, pretty much every male friend I've ever had has tried to flirt with me at some point or made some sexual comment.


Same here.You don't even realize it til you get some outside perspective.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Interesting. I think my boyfriend's female friends fall into the 'acquaintance' category. I don't get the feeling he confides in them but instead is a sounding board for them. One he maintains because she is primarily friends with the STBXW and they have more of a business relationship but he keeps in touch for informational purposes.


I totally agree. To me issues like this are always about degrees. A guy, me included, can be "friends" with women. You know, post something on facebook here and there, a funny text every once in a blue moon, a round of golf every so often. But when that friendship goes into "best friend mode" where you're confiding about problems (to or from) spending a lot of time together, especially alone etc. Basically where there is TRUE investment of energy, then there's something more going on (from an intentions stand point).


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

anotherguy said:


> I think blindly drawing any conclusions based on reading TAM is a horrible, horrible mistake.


You have your opinion and I have mine. 

I don't consider myself "blind" at all. In fact, I feel like my eyes are wide open now.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*



Deejo said:


> Semantics.
> Are there opposite sex friendships? Yes.
> Is sex and attraction completely absent from the relationship on the part of both parties? Not bloody likely.
> 
> Do we need academia to 'prove' this to us? Personally, I don't think so....


oh those pesky academics.. with all their 'science' and 'evidence'. This is just common sense, right?. We 'study' relationships on TAM, right?

This is not semantics. There is a VAST difference between misrepresenting a paper as 'its official' on the idea of men and woman being friends - and what the actual paper says.

I have little doubt people are going to hold this up as evidence that they should have been 'more careful' with a straying spouse and their 'just a friend' when things go badly. Worse however - would be someone that says opposite friendships are off limits because of this 'study' - or at least their broken understanding of what it really says becaise of a sensationalized, oversimplified version they read on Yahoo. This is just reinforcing paranoia to people that are eager to justify their fears.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: It's Official*



anotherguy said:


> Deejo - keep your head on man. Dont let this place screw up your perspective - and never take an internet headline at face value when it is reporting on papers like this. They are, without exception... as bad as email chain letters... never accurate.


LOL ... too late, my perspective has forever been changed as a result of discovering TAM over 4 years ago.
Honestly, I think my perspective is much healthier than it once was.

I'm not bitter or jaded, but I can be a wee bit sarcastic with my posting style. 

I do believe that men and women can conduct friendships, if both have healthy boundaries and a respect for one another. But, the moment it starts to move into 'emotionally bonding' territory for one of them ... you are on a slippery slope.

I personally got the line, "We are just friends." and I bought it because I couldn't possibly believe my ex would be attracted to her 'friend'.

And to use your phrase, I was being hood-winked.

People can read about sample studies til they are blue in the face, they are going to give priority to one sample, rightly or wrongly ... their own.

I don't care whether or not men and women can be platonic friends. If my SO starts spending time canoodling with her 'friend' ... either the friend goes or I go. Don't even feel compelled to discuss it.

Edited to add, I found the article more amusing than affirming.

Hell, even the paper sums it up right in the abstract:


> "We propose that, because cross-sex friendships are a historically recent phenomenon,
> men’s and women’s evolved mating strategies impinge on their friendship experiences."


I'm pretty sure they are saying what I just said above, and I didn't even get any funding ...


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: It's Official*



Deejo said:


> I personally got the line, "We are just friends." and I bought it because I couldn't possibly believe my ex would be attracted to her 'friend'.


Im going to need to remove you from my statistical sample. You are tainted.  (sorry about that situation, by the way, seriously)



Deejo said:


> ...If my SO starts spending time canoodling with her 'friend' ... either the friend goes or I go. Don't even feel compelled to discuss it.


well YEAH. That is my point. That has nothing to do with that paper, and you are exactly right. We all know this happens. Its about boundries and appropriate behavior, and that this paper does NOT predict your situation AT ALL. Wow.. perhaps that is what I have an issue with here. My fear, from what I am reading on this thread - that people believe this sort of thing has some kind of predictive value for bad behavior in a marriage. It does not.

all in fun folks.

(canoodle blooper. funny. Anchorman Denied By Weather Lady Canoodling News Blooper (Original) - YouTube )


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Guess I'm thinking about why someone thought the paper was even necessary.

And then, I looked at the names of the authors. Again, no surprise there.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Deejo said:


> ...And then, I looked at the names of the authors. Again, no surprise there.


April Bleske-Rechek
Erin Somers
Cierra Micke
Leah Erickson
Lindsay Matteson
Corey Stocco
Brittany Schumacher
Laura Ritchie

:lol: :lol:

I like Coreys odds.


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## Desperate_Housewife (Oct 15, 2012)

Don't need to read it...

I've been saying it for years! 

We can NOT be friends with the opposite sex. period. :nono:


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Well again,
I must be from Mars.

I have lots of female friends who I have absolutely no intention of screwing.
Some of them are simply not the type of woman that I'm sexually attracted to. That is, they are overweight etc. etc. But that does not take away from their personality.
They are wonderful , caring people.
I am not sexually attracted to them.
I also have female friends who are sexy, bright and very successful. Even though I may have some sexual attraction to them, I am disciplined enough to keep it in check, and to know if things are crossing that line.

Any man who cannot control his penis around any type of woman should not have female friends.
A man who views women more than just sexual object knows how manage opposite sex friendships.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The scope of 'friendship' is seldom defined to everyone's satisfaction.
I do not have any female friends that I regularly correspond with, or go out of my way to spend time with alone as a 'friend'.

I am 'friendly' with a number of women that are no part of my 'mating strategy'.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Well again,
> I must be from Mars.
> 
> I have lots of female friends who I have absolutely no intention of screwing.
> ...



How much time do you spend with them? I think this pertains to closer friendships than casual aquaintances ones.

Do you know their hopes and dreams?

Do you spend as much time with your female friends as your guy friends? 

Do you go out with female friends as well as guy friends?

If not I don't really consider this friendship, just acquaintances..


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Deejo said:


> The scope of 'friendship' is seldom defined to everyone's satisfaction.
> I do not have any female friends that I regularly correspond with, or go out of my way to spend time with alone as a 'friend'.
> 
> I am 'friendly' with a number of women that are no part of my 'mating strategy'.


Once you've been fixed, can you still call it a 'mating strategy'???

I smell a euphemism here...


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Btw, pretty much every male friend I've ever had has eventually come onto me.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

nice777guy said:


> Once you've been fixed, can you still call it a 'mating strategy'???
> 
> I smell a euphemism here...


Mating strategies needn't result in offspring 

But no, no, I was just injecting language directly from the paper.
Meaning that in my case, not every woman that I am friendly with, is a woman that I want to have sex with.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

kipani said:


> How much time do you spend with them? I think this pertains to closer friendships than casual aquaintances ones.
> 
> Do you know their hopes and dreams?
> 
> ...


Kipani,
I've had had female friends who woke me up in the dead of night to come help them because their vehicle shut down on the highway or some shyt.
I woke up my wife ask her if she wants to come along and she says, no way!
Went , towed them home and returned home, without even going inside for a drink.

I've have female friends who whenever they travel for business ask me to keep an eye on their home and even their TEENAGED DAUGHTERS.

I have very close female friends and ALL of them are friends of my wife. They respect our marriage.
There are those who unfortunately decided to try cross that line and I had to cut them off.
I value my marriage more than their pvssy.

Even when I was single sex was never hard for me to get,so attention from females is nothing new.
I choose my friends VERY carefully.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

kipani said:


> Btw, pretty much every male friend I've ever had has eventually come onto me.


Then you need to_ choose your " friends" _more carefully.
A real friend does not take advantage of your vulnerability, or try to get into your pants. Only desperate men do that.
Self confident men don't_ try to get into a woman's pants. They get into a woman's pants._

Once when I was single and in college, there was this girl I wanted to F , and she knew, because I told her.
She came to a party we threw, and got really drunk. She asked me to drop her home.
I dropped her off at her apartment , put her on the couch,locked the door and left.
To this day we are good friends , simply because I respected her enough not to take advantage of her because she was too drunk to even stand on her own feet.
[She is now married.]


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Deejo said:


> I do not have any female friends that I regularly correspond with, or go out of my way to spend time with alone as a 'friend'.


Why is this? Do you mean that because if you did it's because you'd want something more or feel an attraction to them?


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Sheesh, after reading the article I'm crushed to learn that all those women out there I thought had the hots for me...probably don't.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

You're just wise Caribbean with good boundaries I think. But have you always been that way or have you wizened up through the years?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

nice777guy said:


> Once you've been fixed, can you still call it a 'mating strategy'???


I'm fixed, and I'd nail all of my female friends. 

If I was single, of course.:biggrinangelA:


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I have to admit to being one of those guys. If I wasn't a religious man, married and dearly in love with my wife, yes I would bang my female friends. None of them would let me but the drive is there.

God just made women too pretty.


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## cloudwithleggs (Oct 13, 2011)

I would like to have male friends, but i don't think it is possible.

I do consider my ex-partner a friend, but he has no sexual interest in me or any other woman for that matter.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

kipani said:


> You're just wise Caribbean with good boundaries I think. But have you always been that way or have you wizened up through the years?


I had lots of experience before I married.
Good ones and bad ones.
But most of all I respected myself.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Ok, I read the article... I DO feel generally guys ARE more chummy and friendly to pretty women... 

I see how our 3 oldest sons are .. if they are not physically attracted to a girl, they will not even talk to her, avoid her like the plague ..... they want ZERO friendship....However.... if she is a "*potential*" ~~ they will be friends with her...and happily so .....all about getting that foot in the door...waiting for some cue before they make an azz out of themselves. 

But they are not married... What constitutes "FRIENDSHIP" after one is married ~ is the question...

For us, even before we became ONE, his friends became mine, mine became his... we are a team and present ourselves as such.

I don't go off alone with any of what we'd deem our "male friends" (some single) ... ...my husband is always with me...unless very special occasions that he is in agreement with. Though I have talked on the phone with a # of them on occasion...and we're pretty darn open with each other. It's just never been an issue for us- and we have a lot of yrs under our belt....with the same friends for over 20+ yrs. I tell my husband everything....everyone who knows us ~ knows THIS. 



> *Caribbean Man said*: I choose my friends VERY carefully.


 This is how we are .... We will only entangle ourselves with what we deem ..."*safe people*"... we take their history into account when getting to know new people..... maybe this sounds judgmental to some, but it's our way... We would not even invite someone to our house unless we had a history lesson on them. It's that big of a deal.

We don't hang with Bar hopping partiers, drunks, druggies, single players (what would we have in common with that?)... "sue happy" people, anyone with a criminal record unless they have been seriously reformed..... they don't have to be conservatively religious, or be upper class...but they do have to be Responsible citizens, pro family... with self restraint & Respect of others in how they conduct themselves on the job & their relationships... 

And although there has been guy friends who would JUMP -if my husband was gone..... none of them has ever crossed a REAL line with me .... did anything to disrespect him or our marriage. He would say the same. 2 of them has openly said many flattering things to me/ to us .. jealous comments ....the "you're a lucky son of a B" type back to him....but it's always out in the open...flattering US together.. joking around... nothing under handed/ sinister. 

We're happy with our boundaries in our marriage, they are basically the same as when I landed here ...nothing has changed regardless of what I've read here. 

I do feel... if our transparency with less, if we had issues in our marriage, if the character of the male friends were shaky, If I had a HOT attraction to one of them....sure, this could = a sticky snow balling situation.....Gotta be careful in all things..


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I do feel... if our transparency with less, if we had issues in our marriage, if the character of the male friends were shaky, If I had a HOT attraction to one of them....sure, this could = a sticky snow balling situation.....Gotta be careful in all things..


You're definitely more than friends if you are in a sticky snow balling situation. 

Couldn't resist SA, hope you take that in the humorous tone it was intended.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I think it depends on who the male friends are. 

Like, I got a friend I trust with my life. I've known him before kindergarden, and we still keep in touch. Hopefully it will stay that way into the future. 

Now, if I were to someday get married, would I trust him around my (future, still single ) wife? 
Yes. Because I've known him for most of my entire life. I know how he thinks, how he treats people, how he judges a situation, and I think he would be to morally opposed and feel to guilty to do anything. And I would bet on it. 

Now, if it is a friend my (future) wife knows, that is a male, that is single, would I be ok with it? Hell no!!!
I don't know the guy. Sorry! Does that sound controlling? Sure. Is it right? YES! But I don't care!!! 

If she didn't want me to hang out with certain female friends, I would stop then! I would expect the same in return. 

I think the deal should be more about:
I'll choose what males I'll trust you to be alone with in a room, and you can pick what females you trust me to be alone with in a room. 

It shouldn't be the other way around. 
Unless you want t be in the coping with infidelity forum in a few months. 
Or worse, the Jerry Springer Show...


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Well broken "Best friend screwing my wife" is a pretty common theme for a reason. Art imitates reality. Hell theres tons of threads on here with it.

Oh, btw.. My boyfriends childhood best friend kept trying to hit on me when we were alone and his other childhood best friend stares at my tits. I'm in my 20s too.

These are people bf backed up when they were homeless, gave one of them a home for 7 years rent free.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

kipani said:


> Well broken "Best friend screwing my wife" is a pretty common theme for a reason. Art imitates reality. Hell theres tons of threads on here with it.


That's why I said only my best friend. I've known him for over 15 years. 

There are other friends I wouldn't trust. 

But again, that's why I say:
I'll pick the males you can hang out alone with, and you can pick the females I'll hang out alone with. 

I know guys better than you, and you know girls better than me. So let the smarter person pick the boundaries.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Check for a thread started by Bff. His best friend was screwing his wife for six years before he finally found out. Not saying your friend would do this. But some friends will.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

15 years is a lot to you broken? lol


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

kipani said:


> 15 years is a lot to you broken? lol


I'm 20! 
75% of my life. So yea. 

And yes, I am sure some friends are idiots that would do this to you. 
I am not saying you should blindly trust your friends either. Just saying, some guys I would trust. Other's, I wouldn't trust them with a pen. And trust me, I know plenty of guys I don't trust.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Which (as a woman) is only a real problem if you want them back and aren't single.


As a husband it is a problem if they want the wife period. It is not ok for her to hangout with men who are interested in the marriage having trouble. This a conflict of interest. This guy wants to connect by having sex. 

Also note the minor point that women change their attitude when there is a problem in the relationship. Probelms can vary in duration for sure. However in guy terms these things will accumulate with the woman. So he just needs to be there for her. Maybe interject a comment here or there and the relationship slowly goes downhill with the help of the guy friend who wants the woman. He does not have to do any heavy lifting. That is the husbands problem. He IS competition for the husband to the detrement of the marriage. So not doubt many women love having the male friends around her. Male attention is like crack.

Also what actually happens is that EAs occur from frindships. The person in the EA with swear they are just friends. This is where most of the trouble comes from.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> As a husband it is a problem if they want the wife period. It is not ok for her to hangout with men who are interested in the marriage having trouble. This a conflict of interest. This guy wants to connect by having sex.
> 
> Also note the minor point that women change their attitude when there is a problem in the relationship. Probelms can vary in duration for sure. However in guy terms these things will accumulate with the woman. So he just needs to be there for her. Maybe interject a comment here or there and the relationship slowly goes downhill with the help of the guy friend who wants the woman. He does not have to do any heavy lifting. That is the husbands problem. He IS competition for the husband to the detrement of the marriage. So not doubt many women love having the male friends around her. Male attention is like crack.
> 
> Also what actually happens is that EAs occur from frindships. The person in the EA with swear they are just friends. This is where most of the trouble comes from.


Totally agree here. 

If my wife had a best friend who was a guy (single or not) and he harbored a secret crush. What happens is my wife might complain to him about our relationship or whatever, even something TINY. This guy, consciously or not, will plant seeds in how he talks to her. You can take the most loyal and trustworthy spouse and if you have someone in their ear feeding seeds of discontent, over time that discontent will start to manifest and the spouse will start to perceive things a certain way in which, if they had a different "friend" they wouldn't.

There's a reason the acquaintance into friend into best friend into EA into PA is such a common issue. 

Pardon the analogy (I'm not comparing ANYTHING to Nazis but it's about the slow changing of peoples perceptions.) 

If you took a survey in Germany in 1930 "Who thinks we should do "insert whichever atrocity or negative thing you want". I bet you'd get a 95% or more negative response, and yet through propaganda and gradual shifting of perceptions, look what most Germans were "okay" with. We do it in this country as well. Gradual shifting of perceptions is easy, when given enough time.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Jellybeans said:


> Why is this? Do you mean that because if you did it's because you'd want something more or feel an attraction to them?


I don't 'hang out' or go out of my way to make plans with women. Not to say that if I get a lunch invite from one of female friends, I'd likely go.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

So to me the fallacy of most of these studies that ask people whether they are sexually attracted to their friends are missing the point. It does matter. To an extent. 

A woman who gets involved in an EA may or may not be sexually attracted to her male friend. She may be in denial or maybe like most people they feel that their character and values will mitigate this as they would never cheat. But the sexual attraction is not a requirement. 

As some say women have to connect to have sex and men have sex to connect.

With this in mind then as women bond with their close friends, they develop love for them as one would expect. So the oxytocin goes to work. Levels of trust and comfort rise. Being with that person feels good and safe. This is someone who they can count on and confide in. This evolves. Emotional energy goes into this "friendship". Energy that does not go into the marriage. Over time thes efeeling scan turn romantic. Dopamine comes into play. All the while the woman thinks of this man as a dear close friend.

What many feel to realize is that this is part of the mating ritual. This relationship becomes increasingly more important at the detrement of the marriage to some level. If the conditions are right then this competes with the marriage. yadda yadda yadda ....

So while there amy or may not be this attraction in the beginning it is not the only factor by far. The man's attractiveness can change to the woman over time. Just like a husbands can change to his wife.

But I get why many women are ok with this. They like it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Deejo said:


> I don't 'hang out' or go out of my way to make plans with women. Not to say that if I get a lunch invite from one of female friends, I'd likely go.


But what I am asking is, if you did "hang out" or make plans with women, does that mean that you are attacted to them? Want to have sex? Etc?



Entropy3000 said:


> This is someone who they can count on and *confide* in. This evolves.* Emotional energy goes into this "friendship". *Energy that does not go into the marriage.


And this is where the problem starts. Anytime you start confiding about your relationship with someone other than your spouse (opposite sex heterosexual "friendships"), it can quickly snowball from there. 

Because you have just opened up a window for someone else that belongs to your spouse/partner. Likely, the spouse/partner isn't aware you have confided in someone else about your problems. That is where the betryal begins. Nobody wants their partner telling some opposite-sex "close" friend about their relationship problems. And for good reason. A relationship should be between two people. Which is why you should protect it with boundaries.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Most of my females friends i'm either not sexually attracted to, known since childhood, known since college, or met through some unusual circumstances. If a woman is attractive, as a single man I do not meet them with the hopes of being a pal. I want a romantic relationship. If she is taken, not interested, or just want to be friends then I slowly detach from her. I don't want to have to deal with a woman i'm attracted to having a boyfriend when i'm wanting to be that man. I have to much pride for that. So if I like a girl and she wants to be friends, i'd rather us have no relationship. If i'm not attracted to her in that way then I don't mind being chatty but I still will not go out of my way to do things for her. I think doing things at a the drop of a hat is something I will reserve for a significant other(unless it's a dyer emergency). I have acquaintances mostly with females. Maybe like 3 or 4 actual female friends. If I have a female friend and she gets married then she goes from friend to acquaintance.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> But what I am asking is, if you did "hang out" or make plans with women, does that mean that you are attacted to them? Want to have sex? Etc?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. I do have opposite sex friends. But I found I needed to draw the line clearly. So no close opposite sex friends.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Sure, we could be friends with females we didn't find attractive. We just typically don't wish to. A lion could eat lettuce.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Somehow I don't get the logic that men only hang around women for sex.
At least not me.
Even when I was single,if I saw a woman I was sexually attracted to, every single move I made told her that.She KNEW what I wanted from day one,and it was up to her to respond.

I never pretended to be " just friends" with her , with the aim of getting into her pants later. I think that's dishonest and most women are turned off by that approach IMO.

Maybe that's why I have been able to manage my female friends well. I know that I don't want anything sexual from them, and I'm not fooling myself with this whole " falling in love " B.S.
Our friendships are functional and practical. If I need something done,I call and get it done, and vice versa. They are my friends for a reason. Our friendship is based on mutual respect. 
We don't need to talk on the phone for hours or text each other multiple times during the day because we are " friends." We already know that we are friends, and even if we don't connect for months, we treat each others with respect

I have a very close female friend who is a bank manager.We have been friends for years, I have her on sped dial,we are friends on facebook. What does this friendship mean to me in a practical sense?
It makes banking business easier for me,one of my business account is at that bank.
There are also things that I have done for her.
She's an attractive middle aged woman who's married with grown children. She adores my wife, and we have been to each other's home for lunch etc.
She is more than an acquaintance. She's my good friend, yet I have not spoken with her for quite a while. 

I think people need to be honest with themselves. 
Stop pretending to be friends when you know that you want sex.
But then, I guess a lot of people are not in control of their feelings either,they allow their feelings to control them.
"Therin lies the rub."


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

This caught my eye:



> The results suggest large gender differences in how men and women experience opposite-sex friendships. Men were much more attracted to their female friends than vice versa. Men were also more likely than women to think that their opposite-sex friends were attracted to them—a clearly misguided belief. In fact, men’s estimates of how attractive they were to their female friends had virtually nothing to do with how these women actually felt, and almost everything to do with how the men themselves felt


I would propose that women also lie with all their teeth to THEMSELVES about the attractiveness of their "friends". When i acted as a love bird between my friends in college i often had the girl saying she isn't "attracted to him that way" only to see them getting into heavy petting sessions a week later.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

I didn't need that article. My life experience has taught me that it is not possible. It always comes to sex. It has never failed. I do not have male friends.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> What about dudes who have a lot of "close" female friends?


They are either gay or ambitious.


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