# We don't want to separate but we can't find a solution



## AnoukNZ (Oct 18, 2010)

I don't know what to do...

We have been married for almost 12 years, we have 3 beautiful children, we had a difficult start in our marriage life due to husband's mother being too possesive, he moved out of our house to live with his mum when our first son was only 2 months old ( his mum came to visit, help and live with us for a while....).
It took us 3 years to be able to overcome these problems but after we managed, life was good and I had a wonderful husband, a real family man.

The problem now is that we want to live in separate parts of the world, but we want to be together.....After 10 years of living in a country we decided ( he decided and I agreed for a while) to move to a country closer to our home country where his parents are living so that they can see each other more often. My husband is an only child and his parents are in their late 70's ( my parents have passed away a long time ago). I had enough of this experience now, after almost 3 years and I want us to go back and have the happy life we had before. The problem is he is not able to leave his aging parents alone anymore. 
I don't know how we can solve this problem and if we decide that I go with the kids and he comes for half a year every year, how long can this relationship survive???? How can this affect the children????

I am really helpless.....


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## Blueeyescrying (Oct 17, 2010)

AnoukNZ said:


> I don't know what to do...
> 
> We have been married for almost 12 years, we have 3 beautiful children, we had a difficult start in our marriage life due to husband's mother being too possesive, he moved out of our house to live with his mum when our first son was only 2 months old ( his mum came to visit, help and live with us for a while....).
> It took us 3 years to be able to overcome these problems but after we managed, life was good and I had a wonderful husband, a real family man.
> ...


It is honorable that your husband wants to be close and care for his elderly parents. I think that you should respect your husband and stay with him. Your relationship would be harmed to live in seperate countries for any length of time. You and your husband need to be together. Your children need their father. Staying together would be my answer, if it was me.


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## AnoukNZ (Oct 18, 2010)

I don't feel I can live in this place anymore and I can see my children are also suffering.I feel that I am sacrificing myself and the children...

I love my husband and he loves me but I sometimes feel he would be able to sacrifice our marriage for his parents. I trust him and I thought if I were really unhappy here he would agree to go back. I was wrong...When it was clear to me he would not leave his ageing parents again and not look for alternative solutions ( as for example, to come back home to be with them a few weeks once a year) I made my mind up and decided to take the kids and go back by myself, hoping he would follow us. He said he cannot and does not want to stop or force me if this is what I really want....but he would not come with us, he is not able to do this .....
I really cannot believe this, what kind of husband and father would let his wife and kids go without him????


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

AnoukNZ said:


> I don't feel I can live in this place anymore and I can see my children are also suffering.I feel that I am sacrificing myself and the children...
> 
> I love my husband and he loves me but I sometimes feel he would be able to sacrifice our marriage for his parents. I trust him and I thought if I were really unhappy here he would agree to go back. I was wrong...When it was clear to me he would not leave his ageing parents again and not look for alternative solutions ( as for example, to come back home to be with them a few weeks once a year) I made my mind up and decided to take the kids and go back by myself, hoping he would follow us. He said he cannot and does not want to stop or force me if this is what I really want....but he would not come with us, he is not able to do this .....
> I really cannot believe this, what kind of husband and father would let his wife and kids go without him????


I'm sorry to say a husband/father who values his parents more than his wife and children. Does your h really have to live near his parents to provide care? 

I'm sorry you are going through this, something similar is happening in my life that is leading to separation and divorce. My wife of 20+ years - we don't have children - wants to live close to her aging parents, while for health of my mind and body I need to move.

This is a very difficult issue for your family and mine as well as several close friends who have similar conflicts. There is no easy resolution, a lot of the adults will feel guilt or be unhappy whatever happens.

Have you thought about asking his parents what they want?

I've considered asking my in-laws if they want their daughter to live nearby and divorce or have her married and 3,000 miles away. At this time I'm not sure I want them to say my W, their daughter should move. My once flourishing love for my W has been greatly diminished by her rejection and other issues these past years though I know she is realizing what her decision means.

Where are you and your husband from? I'm guessing there are cultural patterns & traditions in the country your husband comes from that are different than those prevailing in the United States. 

I have a fair number of friends from China and India with aging and aged parents. Once every other year one spouse visits his/her parents, every 3 to 5 years they pack up kids and make a long visit seeing both sets of parents. Like many of us with aging parents, my friends send money on a regular basis.

One woman's widowed mother moved from a village in China to the US to help with her grand children.

In all these cases frequent phone calls, letters, photos allow parents, adult children, and grandchildren to share their lives, while money from abroad helps aging parents. I will say that when I sent my dad the money he needed for very necessary dental work, his thanks were worth every dollar I owned, while regular, much smaller gifts to my Mom allowed her to indulge in her favorite activities - praising me to her friends and relatives and shopping for good deals at local malls. I am a fortunate man.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Well, that question could really be turned around on you: what kind of wife and mother would take her kids away from their father and grandparents? It's not such a cut and dried situation. 

You two need to weigh the pros and cons of each solution (staying there together, living in separate countries apart) and determine which one is going to be more detrimental to your marriage. In my personal opinion, I think living in separate countries would be far worse not only for your marriage, but for your kids as well. 

I also have to be honest here, and I hope you won't take this as an insult or criticism, because I truly don't mean it that way. But...a man who is this committed to being there for his parents sounds to me like a man who is very committed to his family. This thought makes me inclined to think that although you seem to have taken him to be willing to give you up, you are wrong about that. 

Don't give up and go just yet. Keep looking for another solution.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I am with atruckersgirl here. 

A couple of further thoughts. You have the ability to work toward making your location something you can be truly happy with. Maybe it would be fun to consider it a hobby, the reclamation of the place you don't like? Or a challenge of personal growth to find things to genuinely care about in your new community?

If he values caring for the elderly, I might think how well it bodes for me that he does. And though it sounds harsh to say it, I challenge the values of someone who would abandon a spouse because they don't like where they live.


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## AnoukNZ (Oct 18, 2010)

Thank you for all your answers.

The situation is not so simple and in a nutshell I feel that my husband is doing now, after so many years,the same thing he did in the beginning of our marriage: choose his mother over his wife and children. If he did it once he can do it again, no???

I had faith in him back then, I really believed we can work things out and have a happy relationship. I was right. But now this past is coming back to me and I feel we are in the same place somehow.....

We are both from Eastern Europe, his parents are living there and we moved from the Southern Hemisphere in the Western Europe to be closer to my husband's parents. We do not live in the same country as his parents. The only difference is that they are only 1200 km away instead of 20000 km away.

The only thing I know is that I would not have done the same thing, I would not have asked my family to move for me and my parents and turn their life upside down. I would have convinced my parents to come and live in the same country with us or I would have visited them as often as I could have.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Did you actually plan to help moving his parents to NZ? Or just walked away & moved yourself and kids?


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

I don't really need a thank to help my parents that's why I've been the supportive one since my first pay cheque. What I really don't like is the attitude of my mom. She would ask me to call her because she doesn't want to waste international phone bills, so I must call her to let her scold me and dump all her emotional trash on me and I must be understanding her pain and shut up.
Excuse me, she would never dump her trash on my brothers. After more than 100 phone calls I spent, either asking me for sending money or anyhow scolded me, it finally gets old. I'm tired and fed up with my family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

God is kind to me. I have a loving and supportive husband, (2nd marriage,) my parents in law are very good parents. I love them more than my own parents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

Knowing how expensive international calls are I'd like to suggest you use google voice, free if you and your parents have a computer, pretty cheap if only you have one. It works on both Macs and PCs.

https://www.google.com/voice

What is really neat it gives you a single phone number, at least in the US, which will ring as many phones as you want, if you don't answer, it will convert voice to text and send emails.

I've used it with a friend in Shanghai from my Mac, works great.



MsLonely said:


> I don't really need a thank to help my parents that's why I've been the supportive one since my first pay cheque. What I really don't like is the attitude of my mom. She would ask me to call her because she doesn't want to waste international phone bills, so I must call her to let her scold me and dump all her emotional trash on me and I must be understanding her pain and shut up.
> Excuse me, she would never dump her trash on my brothers. After more than 100 phone calls I spent, either asking me for sending money or anyhow scolded me, it finally gets old. I'm tired and fed up with my family.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JennaL10 (Oct 19, 2010)

It is extremely honorable that he wants to take care of his elderly parents. You forced him to choose. He should never be put in that situation. It doesn't work. Now you will always hold that against him. If he chooses you, he will never forgive himself for abandoning his parents and your marriage would have suffered anyways. See the inevitability in this? 

However, you should come up with an agreement that BOTH of you can be HAPPY with. THIS IS KEY. Find a marriage counselor who can help mediate this.


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## AnoukNZ (Oct 18, 2010)

JennaL10 said:


> It is extremely honorable that he wants to take care of his elderly parents. You forced him to choose. He should never be put in that situation. It doesn't work. Now you will always hold that against him. If he chooses you, he will never forgive himself for abandoning his parents and your marriage would have suffered anyways. See the inevitability in this?
> 
> However, you should come up with an agreement that BOTH of you can be HAPPY with. THIS IS KEY. Find a marriage counselor who can help mediate this.


We still don't know what to do, we are 2 people who cannot come to a common decision or negotiate and compromise a solution in this case and I can't believe we are here after almost 12 years together !!!
I feel lost and I can't immagine an agreement that both can be happy with !!!

We are discussing but in vain it seems, and we will soon be sick of so much discussion with no conclusion.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

If this is the hill you are willing to die on, then leave the marriage and take the kids. But in doing so, you need to know that you will both deeply damage your children and communicate to them that fathers have little value because they are disposable. If you have boys, they will carry that message into their adult lives with unknowable consequences.


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## AnoukNZ (Oct 18, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> If this is the hill you are willing to die on, then leave the marriage and take the kids. But in doing so, you need to know that you will both deeply damage your children and communicate to them that fathers have little value because they are disposable. If you have boys, they will carry that message into their adult lives with unknowable consequences.


NO, I don't want to leave my marriage, I don't want to live without my husband and certainly I don't want my kids to live without their father! But it seems that he, my husband, can do that !
I just want to have the happy family life we did before coming here, I just want him to realize what his priorities are and set them in order.
Aren't your children and your partner suppose to be the first priority ???? If your wife is not happy where she is, ( and I really tried for 3 years !) why can't another solution be found???

I really think we need a mediator, a marriage counselor ! I can't find one here where we are as we need and English speaking one. Where can I find a marriage counselor that we can communicate in writing with?


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## divorcejace (Nov 9, 2010)

have you tried getting a coach for that, i know you don't want to separate, but it is better to be prepared and consult a professional before your life gets more chaotic, specially for the children..try to call her - she helped me http://www.baumeandco.com.au/


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## divorcejace (Nov 9, 2010)

AnoukNZ said:


> Thank you for all your answers.
> 
> The situation is not so simple and in a nutshell I feel that my husband is doing now, after so many years,the same thing he did in the beginning of our marriage: choose his mother over his wife and children. If he did it once he can do it again, no???
> 
> ...


i think you better get ahead of your husband, call a divorce coach Divorce Coaching, Life Coaching, Coaching Programmes, Sydney, Nicola Baume :: Baume


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## AnoukNZ (Oct 18, 2010)

divorcejace said:


> have you tried getting a coach for that, i know you don't want to separate, but it is better to be prepared and consult a professional before your life gets more chaotic, specially for the children..try to call her - she helped me Divorce Coaching, Life Coaching, Coaching Programmes, Sydney, Nicola Baume :: Baume


What we really need right now I think is a marriage counselor to help us mediate our conflicting views and wishes in order to get to a mutual agreement!


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## JennaL10 (Oct 19, 2010)

Yeah, it's hard. Very hard to find middle ground. I know that! I am myself working on my marriage. It takes energy and time and effort and a whole lot of brainstorming...so freaking tiring...it's like taking college classes all over again. But SO DAMN WORTH IT. You will like the results. My counselor is giving us tools to work with - something that our previous counselors didn't do. We have seen two other counselors in our 10 year marriage previously. Most of them just listen and try to solve problems by telling you what they think, dwelling on the past and so on...DIDN'T WORK!!! 

This counselor gives us homework! He really focuses on feelings and emotions. He is basically teaching us how to be emotionally and socially intelligent. He doesn't try to change you because he knows it doesn't work. His believe is nobody can change at the expense of his or her happiness. He is teaching us communication skills (big one!). He has been in this field for 50 years..I feel like I am talking to my grandpa! Haha...Point is, he knows what works and what doesn't. He is passionate about his field. My husband and I have great respect for this old man. 

Most importantly, we know that we have found the right counselor. But we don't know is that whether our relationship is going to work or not. We are still taking sessions with our counselor. I think this is the last one for us. We know that if we can't make our relationship work despite the great tools we have then we will take the divorce route. We both want happiness whether we get it through marriage or not.

Our counseling sessions are a lot like this one here - check it out :
The Policy of Joint Agreement

Maybe you can find a counselor who skypes!!!


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## JennaL10 (Oct 19, 2010)

One more thing...I'd like to play the devil's advocate here. I'll pretend I know how your husband feels. He loves his parents. He loves you and his family. This ISN'T about who he loves more. He wants to take care of them because this is what he is programmed to do since he was a little boy - they loved and provided for him and now he owes them big time. He would feel so terrible if he left them to die and rot (this is how he sees it if he is not near them). He wishes you would not give him grief about taking care of his parents. He loves you and wishes you would be supportive of this decision that you wouldn't resent him for that decision. It's hurts him knowing that he could stand the chance of losing your love when he chose to take care of his parents. He wishes there was another way that you could be happy about this but doesn't know how. 

Okay. So, I understand how you feel. But does he? And vice versa. Can you effectively communicate your feelings (remember ONLY YOUR FEELINGS..and not his feelings or what you think your feelings should be) without being judgmental and making selfish demands. To come to an enthusiastic agreement means you both should be happy with that decision and no "if you do this then I do this". It's going to involve a lot of brainstorming solutions and writing it down on a paper until you find something that you both like. 

These are some of the tools that we are working with, by the way. I am not a counselor and I apologize if I said some stupid things. But I really feel for you.


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## AnoukNZ (Oct 18, 2010)

Thank you Jenna,

I am trying to find a counselor but my husband is not happy with this idea, he does not feel like opening up to a complete stranger ....does not feel that this would work for him....

I understand his love for his parents although I don't understand his behavior and his not wanting to take care of them from a distance. They are old but they are not sick or ill. 
I feel abandoned and with no much choice : either to stick together and try to live with this decision, with all the resentments that this could bring OR take the kids and leave and hope that he will follow us or at least will come and be with us at some point, sooner or later.....and try to live with all the risks that this will imply....
I feel like it's just me that needs to make a decision at all,,,,and I don't think it should feel or be like this . :scratchhead:


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## JennaL10 (Oct 19, 2010)

Like most husbands, my husband wasn't keen on seeing a counselor. He hated the other ones. But not this one. So, who you see is really important. We are seeing one because I finally told my husband that I cannot live like this anymore. I want a divorce. (He knew I was serious because it was so bad. Lots of fighting and crying on my part.) And that's when he sort of gave in and said we have to see a counselor and take it from there. Before that, he didn't know that I could do it. I felt so powerful just to mention "divorce" and showed him that I meant it (I am a SAHM). Right now there is no fighting because I am at a crossroad. I now have the option. But I feel like our counseling sessions are going to help us decide. That's how awesome this is. We couldn't save our marriage on our own..we needed professional help. And this is our last resort. I hope we can stay married but if it doesn't, I know I will be happy regardless!


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## Justin123 (Nov 13, 2010)

AnoukNZ said:


> I had enough of this experience now, after almost 3 years and I want us to go back and have the happy life we had before.


It sounds to me like you will not be able to go back to happy life the way you imagine. Even if you go back, and even if he joins you, it sounds very likely that you will still NOT have the happy life you had before, because he may forever resent the fact that you made him "betray" his parents, which may also set a bad example for your kids.

If it's not possible to move his parents with your family, then you may consider just staying, at least for now. If you can't, then you are forced to choose the lesser of two evils :-( 

Maybe counseling will change your or his world view too of course... Perhaps if each of you imagined reverse situation, it would help too (e.g. you can each try to imagine you, AnoukNZ, having a parent or a sibling or someone else close who is hurt in another country and you feel needs your presence there, and your husband hates that place and can't stand living there)


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