# What do you do when spouse won't be civil?



## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

What does a person do when their spouse repeatedly drags the children into our marriage issues and discussions about divorce? 

It appears she absolutely refuses to be civil about it and it's causing even more hurt and anger in the children. Plus, it's driving a huge wedge into my relationship with them since they look at me as the "bad guy" and the spouse as the "poor wife".

There are days when I feel like I can't take anymore so I start thinking I'll just wait out the next couple of years until my youngest graduates and then leave.

But is that the right thing to do if I'm terribly unhappy and depressed?


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Why wait? Even if you have to pay child support, it wouldn't be for long. File and start a new life. There is no benefit to being a martyr. And it would stop the fights and civility problems.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

D8zed-

Surly you need to make up your mind one way or the other. After 5 years of no sex, I would have made up my mind.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> D8zed-
> 
> Surly you need to make up your mind one way or the other. After 5 years of no sex, I would have made up my mind.


I can't disagree. All I can say is that I never did anything about it because (1) the kids, and (2) I just asssumed it was part of a 'normal marriage' so I shut down that part of me.

The W and I have had 3 individual counseling sessions and our first couples session is scheduled for 5/28. I'm expecting things to come to a head at that point. I am prepared to say "this marriage is done if there is no possibility of intimacy, which includes sex".

My fear is that W will say "start showing me non-sexual intimacy and I will start feeling close enough to you to have sex". It's hard to argue with that logic (bribe) but my question is "so what's the timeline". If we're talking in terms of years (and possibly months), then no thank you.

I've heard the same argument for several years and it never resulted in a sexual relationship. But again, did I give it enough time? Apparently not.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

D8zed said:


> My fear is that W will say "start showing me non-sexual intimacy and I will start feeling close enough to you to have sex". It's hard to argue with that logic (bribe) but my question is "so what's the timeline". If we're talking in terms of years (and possibly months), then no thank you.


I think you're being very realistic here. I would insist on lots of cuddles and touching - everything except genitals, and then a timetable for the genital stuff. If however, she rolls her eyes at the though of any of that, then it shows that the pair of you are at each other's throats too much to even contemplate sex. 



D8zed said:


> I've heard the same argument for several years and it never resulted in a sexual relationship. But again, did I give it enough time? Apparently not.


Could you expand on this, with details of what was discussed, and what actually happened?


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Could you expand on this, with details of what was discussed, and what actually happened?


The discussion was similar to what I described - W saying she wanted me to show her more attention and affection. Me saying okay and then doing so by: 

- Holding hands while walking
- A kiss 'hello' or 'goodbye' or 'good night'
- A sholder massage while sitting at the table
- etc.

This would last 3-4 weeks and then peter out. And yeah, I know that's on me but I find it dang hard to keep this up when there is no sexual contact.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

D8zed said:


> The discussion was similar to what I described - W saying she wanted me to show her more attention and affection. Me saying okay and then doing so by:
> 
> - Holding hands while walking
> - A kiss 'hello' or 'goodbye' or 'good night'
> ...


How long ago was the last time this happened, and did she try this/request this several times? If so, give the time line.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> How long ago was the last time this happened, and did she try this/request this several times? If so, give the time line.


How long ago? Probably last summer.

Did she request this several times? Yeah.

Timeline? What do you mean? Timeline of what?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

D8zed said:


> Timeline? What do you mean? Timeline of what?


How many times did she institute this - how long ago was the first time.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

Well, this isn't an easy question to answer and here's why...

I used to be very touchy, feely, playful with her. But soon after we married (in the '88-'89 timeframe), she told me to stop because it bothered her so I did.

In the early '90s, her controlling and dominating ways really came on which led to a buildup of hurt feelings and resentment. And of course, the sex was never there - maybe 2-3 times a year.

So, I soon became a non-playful, resentful person who never felt close to my W in an intimate way. This made it difficult for me to reciprocate by showing non-sexual intimacy.

Over the last 10 years, we've had the conversation about showing more affection several times. And like I said previously it typically lasts 2-4 weeks and then fizzles out.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

D8zed-
I have to be honest with you, we are on different wavelengths, you and I. I would have left her in the 90's. I don't see the point in being married without intimacy of every type. I never believe in staying for the kids. Kids who grow up in a touch starved home - that is to say, lack of intimacy between the parents - often end up with intimacy issues of their own. Bringing up kids and being a father is rewarding but it's also hard work and full of sacrifice. With out "my little bag of sweets" - sex, I would not be motivated to stick around. Sorry to sound selfish, but I'm just being honest.

HOWEVER, if you have read my articles, you will know that I am always saying that resentment is the #1 libido killer for women. Does she resent you for something BIG?


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Does she resent you for something BIG?


Probably but I don't know what it is exactly.

I do know that I was a jealous, controlling, needy person in the early stages of our marriage so maybe that had something to do with it.

Also, she found out I was chatting with people online around 2001. We actually went to marriage counseling for that. She thought it was great and helpful and I bluffed my way through it after feeling attacked and ganged up on.

I've never had an affair (other than chatting online).

So who knows....


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

D8zed said:


> Probably but I don't know what it is exactly.
> 
> I do know that I was a jealous, *controlling*,* needy *person in the early stages of our marriage so maybe that had something to do with it.
> 
> ...


Was this chatting of an amorous nature?

Anyway, I've highlighted the things that would turn her off. So yep, you are scoring 3 out of 3. But what I'm really asking is, what did you do to really get under her skin? Which transgression was the worse? See also: Sexless Marriage?


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