# Routine sex becoming a problem



## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi, I am new here. I was browsing the internet looking for advice and decided to post here. My wife and I have been married for 10 years and were together 5 years before that. I love my wife and I am still very attracted to her physically. She is very conservative and not very adventurous when it comes to sexual activity. 

Our sex life has gradually declined and consists of the same routine repeatedly. I'm a very sexual guy and have tried numerous things to reignite the spark. Most of my attempts end in failure and/or arguments. It's a turn on to me to be affectionate at spontaneous times or places, but that hardly ever goes over well. I've discussed different things such as toys, going to a strip club together, videotaping ourselves, or anything other than the usual robot routine. But she feels like these things are trashy and ****ty. Most recently, while driving down the highway, I tried to get her to flash a trucker as we passed by. It's not that Im into exhibitionism, I would just like to see some level of spontaneity or sexuality from her. 

I fear that without some variety or break in routine may cost us our marriage in the near future. Am I just a jackass who should be happy with what I have or am I justified in desiring more excitement?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Have you discussed with her why she finds it trashy? Does she come from a strict religious background? If the latter... it's complicated =/


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

We are both religioius people, but there doesnt seem to be any religious implications in her resistance. It's more along the lines of a self-respect sort of thing.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

but where is the connection of experimenting=trashy coming from?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

MetaSin said:


> We are both religioius people, but there doesnt seem to be any religious implications in her resistance. It's more along the lines of a self-respect sort of thing.


The self-respect thing is the most important. If it is true, do you want her to end up hating herself because she flashes truckers on the interstate for your jollies?

If you want more than "routine", start out slowly in your own bedroom. Going from bedroom to exhibitionism will be a long journey that you probably will never get to, but may enjoy some of the stops on the way.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

maybe try asking her what stuff she enjoys? after all exhibitionism seems to your thing and a lot of people aren't comfortable with it, maybe she has something in mind instead?


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

I think the key to getting a woman to open up more sexually is to get her aroused. They are always more receptive to new ideas when horny than not. So those are the times to try new things. The key is to find the right time and also the right kind of "spice" to introduce.


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

That's a difficult question for me to answer. Her definition of sex is very sensual, caring, intimate, and private. Which I respect and enjoy most of the time. She is a bit self-concious about her body, although she is very attractive, 5'1", 105lbs. She doesnt like me to take risque photos, even though I delete them almost immediately. Not sure if that helps at all?


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

You said the sex life has declined. Does that mean she used to do things in bed that she no longer does? Or that the frequency of sex has decreased? Or both? If the first one, what type of things has she become less open to?


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

My wife is the same. Even after 20 years, sex is still PG rated. I still don’t know where it comes from. However, her siblings seem to be the same way, as far as PDA…

I have tried so many times to initiate in our SUV with tinted windows in a parking lot, or just under our carport at home…no interest.

Like you, it creates an argument about sex not being exciting enough and always ends badly. Not very romantic. I am sure that the resentments are building.

I am learning to just accept it...... It’s been 20 years and why would I expect it to change. For a while,We increased our frequency compared to the first 18 years, but now, recently the sex has waned back to what it was before. 

I don’t know what in store for the future. I wish the sex/intimacy wasn’t so important to me.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Slow down!!! I think you are trying to go from 0 to 120 mph in 3 seconds. It a shock to her system. 

think of it as a large project broken up into small parts. Not many woman would flash a trucker and frankly it does seem trashy. It is also a disrespectful thing to ask a wife to do. She will resist even your modest request if you present her with over the top stuff. 

I have a feeling she does not feel safe with you. Think about it. You are trying to bring your sexually repressed wife out of her shell. Don't hack the thing open and shine a search light in there. 

Make it about both of you. I think you will be far more successful that way. Make modest (as in small) changes and be reassuring to her. You have to coax her to join the fun not kick her in the butt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

Discussions of what turns her on, or what she likes/dislikes is usually pretty generic and vague and consistent with what we already do. In addition, any initiation of sex is almost always done by me, which is also a turn off. I get tired of making a move and being rejected if the time and place isnt just perfect. 

When I said "declined", that meant in frequency and quality. For example, oral sex from her used to be a usual thing, now it's virtually nonexistant. I understand that life can be busy and hectic, that's not the issue. 

Member "Already Gone" is spot on. Very similar situation as his. Im just not ready to surrender my desires and sexuality for a life time of mediocre routine sex. I dont want other women, I just want to share this with my wife.


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

Catherine, while I respect your opinion, we're not talking about a second date experience. We've been together 15 years, she's my best friend, and other than this issue, our relationship is excellent. Not feeling safe or some level of fear is not a problem. I've never asked her to do anything that she was not comfortable with or treated her in a disrespectful manner. I do not pressure her or nag her or make her feel ashamed or inadequate. That's not how I work. The issue is, that I am trying to grow with her.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Small steps for self-conscious women.

She's normal, I'm sure. She has fantasies and gets aroused. She appears to have a personality that you love & part of that is that some of this embarrasses her. She can overcome some of the embarrassment if you take her out of her comfort zone a bit at a time.

Trying to get a person like that to flash someone on the highway is a recipe for failure. It would be mortifying for her.

Maybe some very soft, erotic movies to jumpstart some ideas and moods. Or an extremely isolated place outdoors with no chance of being surprised or seen by anyone. Or joining her in the shower or bath. Just small, safe, different things.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

My wife and I had similar disconnects. I just wanted her to initiate sex more, though, show some desire for God's sake, not flash truckers. When she couldn't or wouldn't do that (IRRESPECTIVE of the reasons), I began to take it hard. We're talking over a period of years. "Not breaking down and making the first move" became almost a matter of pride with me. But waiting meant going without... so I would, time and again, end up swallowing my pride for sex. Over time her not "wanting" me(real or perceived) killed any desire I had for her (did coincide with a weight gain). I got to the point that I felt as though I had been clear: I had articulated - in and out of counseling - some really low-bar needs and desires. From my seat it looked like she did little to nothing to work at, even, those. I finally decided I did not want to live on such meager portions. I feel I've earned more than that. (and to be fair... there's always two sides to every coin. I'm sure she can cite aspects of me to which she deserves better).


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

We have made small steps in the past, such as some outdoor encounters, some use of toys, etc. But that is few and far between. Doing so requires a lot of urging on my part, and has gotten to the point where it's not worth the effort. 

The highway flashing thing was not something that I tried to make her do. It was merely a suggestion that spawned a sexual conversation that was initially a turn-on, but spiraled into an argument. The suggestion was less to get her to actually do it and more to spark some sexual excitement. 

I just feel that we've hit a roadblock that our relationship may not be able to get past. I've considered seeing a sex/relationship therapist to sort it out. But I dont know if I'm being unreasonable in my expectations and should just accept the way things are and not push the envelope.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

MetaSin said:


> We have made small steps in the past, such as some outdoor encounters, some use of toys, etc. But that is few and far between. Doing so requires a lot of urging on my part, and has gotten to the point where it's not worth the effort.
> 
> The highway flashing thing was not something that I tried to make her do. It was merely a suggestion that spawned a sexual conversation that was initially a turn-on, but spiraled into an argument. The suggestion was less to get her to actually do it and more to spark some sexual excitement.
> 
> I just feel that we've hit a roadblock that our relationship may not be able to get past. I've considered seeing a sex/relationship therapist to sort it out. But I dont know if I'm being unreasonable in my expectations and should just accept the way things are and not push the envelope.


As I was saying she will do more if she is fully aroused. You saying she used to do oral for example but not anymore tells me that she is not feeling the strong sexual attraction to you that she once was.

I think you should stop trying to get her to do new things like flashing truckers and focus more on the attraction/arousal problem. Once that is solved you will be in a stronger position to "push the envelope". And I would chill on the exhibitionist stuff (in this post you mention outdoor encounters) as it seems to be your thing more than it is hers.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

"Doing so requires a lot of urging on my part, and has gotten to the point where it's not worth the effort."

Keep your drawers on, girl, it ain't worth the fight. By the time you drop 'em, I'll be gone and you'll be right where they fall the rest of yore life. - Mike Cooley, DBT

For what it's worth... if people sing about it, its a pretty common thing.


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

Delta Blues, I know exactly how you feel. It seems as though it's become a goal of mine to not initiate and see how long it takes before she starts the process. I, too, usually give in and my sexual urges outweigh my pride. When I am able to hold out and not initiate for a period of time, it usually just builds tension and disappointment, and frustration on my part. When I've voiced these feelings to her, she says that she feels like it's the guy's job to initiate. But I feel like after 10 years of marriage, we are past the point of sexual formalities for the most part. To fix the situation, I've tried to be more obvious in my affection toward her, both verbal and physical, on a day to day basis. But we quickly fall back into the same rountine and nothing ever changes.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

Why should one person's ego get all the stroking?


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

especially if it starts coming at the expense of the other person's pride?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

What is wrong with you guys???

It shouldn't matter who initiates... if YOU want sex, YOU should initiate it. Make her say no.

Otherwise, you will be a few years down the road fighting with her about sex and all she needs to say is "Well, if you wanted it you should have asked for it." and you can never say "You always say no."

As for OP, how about a compromise. Next time you have sex, you do it her way... anything she wants. If that means missionary under the blanket, with the lights off then that's the way you do it. Then the next time, you get to choose, but it has to be within reason. Toys, BJ, whatever.

This way everyone gets what they like on a routine basis.


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## DeltaBlues (Oct 15, 2012)

But, I may be projecting my experience. I'm new to the board and don't know to what extent I should do that. Every situation is somewhat different, I suppose, so take my questions as musings on my own, not your, situation.


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

Chris, I think youre painting the situation with a pretty broad brush. I wish it was that easy. If the affection is not mutual and recipricated, then I may as well just pay a hooker $50 every time I had a sexual urge.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

What are we looking for here?

Sex? You're right. A hooker will do.

Affection? Get a dog. They are loyal and affectionate.

An intimate, fulfilling sexual component in your marriage? One that sustains monogamy and faithfulness? Unless there's a physical or mental issue stopping your wife from having this kind of component in your marriage, you have every right to expect it, to voice your expectations and address the ramifications if you don't have it.

You first need to make sure you are meeting her needs. You can't have this discussion unless you have the "upper hand", meaning there are no issues with you. Once you are sure you are OK in this, have the discussion.

I think the problem is that guys are afraid to tell their wives that an fulfilling, intimate sexual relationship (aka "sex") is one of their needs. So they beta out, don't ask, get resentful and frustrated.

If you are meeting her needs and she can't be affectionate, you're just a doormat and wallet.


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

I won't discuss whether you are right or wrong, only to say that what you said is steering away from the topic at hand. If the intricacies of a long-term relationship between a male and female could be broken down to 1) Get a hooker, 2) Get a dog, or 3) make sure youre not a doormat, then you would be considered a genius and you should next work on world peace. 

The point of my post was the fact that my sex drive and sexuality is clearly higher and stronger than my wife's. Any frustration I have stems from that, not my inability to communicate that sex is one of my needs. I was looking for others who might have or have had a similar situation and possible resolutions. It wasn't my goal to put myself on the chopping block for the judgement of others.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MetaSin said:


> Catherine, while I respect your opinion, we're not talking about a second date experience. We've been together 15 years, she's my best friend, and other than this issue, our relationship is excellent. Not feeling safe or some level of fear is not a problem. I've never asked her to do anything that she was not comfortable with or treated her in a disrespectful manner. I do not pressure her or nag her or make her feel ashamed or inadequate. That's not how I work. The issue is, that I am trying to grow with her.


Sorry Meta my post may have seemed like i was chastising you that was not my intention. 

I was talking from the view of a former sexually repressed woman. I came out of my shell incrementally. If my husband asked me to expose myself to a passing trucker I would feel that he did not care about me and we were not good friends. Thats why I said you may have lost her trust.. 

At any rate, i don't think you should be surprised at her negative reaction. I wanted you to try and see it from her point of view. I also wanted to point out that she may not be as intractable as she seems. Exposing her goodies is not something I associate with intimacy between two loving people. 

Perhaps something that is less extreme and with the pleasure of your good friend in mind as well as yours would be successful. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Just from the woman's point of view - a woman on the shy side who is used to her H initiating, but doesn't let it stop her - I will say that initiating can be a mental barrier & here's why:

Women are told endlessly that sex is very important to men & that men have a high interest in sex and a high sex drive. They basically believe that a man will initiate if he wants it & won't bother if he doesn't. If he's not initiating, they may assume that he doesn't want it, isn't in the mood, doesn't find his W attractive, doesn't desire her right then, etc. So, the woman is afraid to take a chance because she thinks that he doesn't really want it & she will be feeling foolish by putting herself out on a limb. She feels some humiliation in advance, so to speak.

I know that men understand this sense of 'putting yourself out there for sex and maybe being rejected,' but a lot of women don't have this experience & men don't understand that. You can take the attitude of 'welcome to my world,' and you would be right, but it wouldn't help the problem, since a typical female solution to the fear of rejection is just not to try. Hence, the lack of initiation.

If you talk to your W about this and she still won't try, I would definitely consider a sex therapist. I don't think it's good to go for long periods in an otherwise happy marriage with a disconnect like this.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

MetaSin said:


> The point of my post was the fact that my sex drive and sexuality is clearly higher and stronger than my wife's. *Any frustration I have stems from that, not my inability to communicate that sex is one of my needs.* I was looking for others who might have or have had a similar situation and possible resolutions. It wasn't my goal to put myself on the chopping block for the judgement of others.


I dunno about that. I think communication IS one of your problems if "flash a trucker" is how you express your desire for more and more variety in your sex life.

My partner and I have a great sex life, but if he asked me to flash a trucker as a means to a more spicy sex life, I'd tell HIM to flash the trucker himself! 

Actually, I wouldn't. It's disrespectful to the trucker.

Geez, fantasy is one thing, but really! What makes you think passing motorists want to see anybody flashing them. So fricking rude.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> Hi, I am new here. I was browsing the internet looking for advice and decided to post here. My wife and I have been married for 10 years and were together 5 years before that. I love my wife and I am still very attracted to her physically. She is very conservative and not very adventurous when it comes to sexual activity.
> 
> Our sex life has gradually declined and consists of the same routine repeatedly. I'm a very sexual guy and have tried numerous things to reignite the spark. Most of my attempts end in failure and/or arguments. It's a turn on to me to be affectionate at spontaneous times or places, but that hardly ever goes over well. I've discussed different things such as toys, going to a strip club together, videotaping ourselves, or anything other than the usual robot routine. But she feels like these things are trashy and ****ty. Most recently, while driving down the highway, I tried to get her to flash a trucker as we passed by. It's not that Im into exhibitionism, I would just like to see some level of spontaneity or sexuality from her.
> 
> I fear that without some variety or break in routine may cost us our marriage in the near future. Am I just a jackass who should be happy with what I have or am I justified in desiring more excitement?


Now I’m with you on the idea of spicing up your sex life. I do not understand people who will not do that.

But, you have a wife is seems to be shy about some things…. And you ask her to do video taping and to flash a truck driver??? 

Really? Exhibitionism is your fantasy. These things would be very hard for her to do. I’m pretty open to a lot of things. But I would never do them. Find things that fit where she is now. Just stretch that a little.. go slow, small steps at a time.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think you have gotten some really good feedback and suggestions. 

I thought you would value the input of woman similar to your wife. Getting into the shoes of the other person usually helps. You can approach the problem with their view in mind. 

If that seems unfair to you or too much work or something you should not need to do for a friend then your path is obvious. Get the divorce you want and find a woman who is sexually agressive, likes to flash her goodies, take videos, of you two having sex on the hood of your car at rush hr, (joking), does not take too much of your time to learn about and take care of your needs, is compliment to you sexually. 

After the wild sex slows down, other things may become important such as - being intellectually and emotionally compatibile and a good friend. There are lots of woman looking for a relationship so I am certain you will find someone that meets your main qualifications. Or you can become a serial monogamist if that's would be more satisfying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unexited (May 14, 2012)

Metasin, i have a wife who is shy sexually speaking. I am myself trying to get her to be more open about it and try out new things. So take my advice and go SLOW.

Now i understand that the flashing the trucker thing was a way of expressing or stating the topic of spicing up your sex life, and you weren't expecting her to actually do it, BUT take it from my experience , even the mention of such a thing can mortify a woman, even if she is decently open about such stuff, let alone a woman who is not very open about her sexuality. While such a thing could be normal or slightly unusual in your mind , but a vast majority of women will put it in the "over my dead body" category.

What worked for me is using emails as form of communication. Its quite possible that she may be uncomfortable discussing her fantasys/desires directly. So get to know wht turns her on, do those thing get her comfortable and then gently push them outwards.

think of it this way, she has been backing the car out into the drive way for the past 15 years, not you need to teach her how to drive in normal conditions so start slowly, dont expect her to be drifting at 120kmph.

hope thats some help !


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks to those of you who read the post and offered your advice. I regret mentioning the highway flashing incident, as that's what most of you latched onto to talk about, and completely missed the entire point I was addressing. To be clear, Im not into exhibitionism. I thought I'd made that point repeatedly. With a wife who wont really discuss what she likes or turns her on, I've mentioned a lot of different stuff in the past, this being one of them. Some have been successful, most have been failures. I talked about it because that was the tipping point of an already strained sexual situation. The title of the thread is "routine sex becoming a problem".

I welcome any further opinions or advice as long as it's not "oh my god, flash a trucker, oh my god".


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> Thanks to those of you who read the post and offered your advice. I regret mentioning the highway flashing incident, as that's what most of you latched onto to talk about, and completely missed the entire point I was addressing. To be clear, Im not into exhibitionism. I thought I'd made that point repeatedly. With a wife who wont really discuss what she likes or turns her on, I've mentioned a lot of different stuff in the past, this being one of them. Some have been successful, most have been failures. I talked about it because that was the tipping point of an already strained sexual situation. The title of the thread is "routine sex becoming a problem".
> 
> I welcome any further opinions or advice as long as it's not "oh my god, flash a trucker, oh my god".


My wife has never let me know what turns her on... I think it's because nothing does. I can totally relate to your situation.
I haven't really surrendered...Well, I kinda have. For me there has never been any passion...ever! We were kind of friends from the start. I just hoped that the sex would grow the longer we were together.

When we increased our frequency, it was me that became aggressive and I stopped relieving myself like I did for 18 years or so. Then it was "scheduled" sex. Every Tuesday, Thursday morning, and Saturday night. If I wanted more than that It was like she was doing me a favor...Even then, she would just lay there...Her on top???she gets tired after just 1 minute. Maybe I will roll her over on her side or something, but it is still me doing all the work. 

I have to be the one to give her the head massage, back rub, make sure I am clean shaven even though she doesn't shave below (which I started to do in hopes for oral even if she tires after 3 minutes) She doesn't like to dance, hug, or anything to show intimacy. I think she is afraid that any amount of touching on her part will get me all worked up, so she does nothing.

All in all the scheduled sex was the best. Then I made her get a job because being a SAHM and house wife, she wasn't holding up her end of the deal. (that another story though) Since the, she is too tired for sex. I think we are back down to 3 times a month now.

I would be happy to let her walk away. Then I could hire a baby sitter for after school. I think that would work for me...


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> I won't discuss whether you are right or wrong, only to say that what you said is steering away from the topic at hand. If the intricacies of a long-term relationship between a male and female could be broken down to 1) Get a hooker, 2) Get a dog, or 3) make sure youre not a doormat, then you would be considered a genius and you should next work on world peace.
> 
> The point of my post was the fact that my sex drive and sexuality is clearly higher and stronger than my wife's. Any frustration I have stems from that, not my inability to communicate that sex is one of my needs. I was looking for others who might have or have had a similar situation and possible resolutions. It wasn't my goal to put myself on the chopping block for the judgement of others.


I like this response. As far as our dog, he get more affection in one year than I have received in 20 years.

I hear you MetaSin, I just wish I had an answer. 

I have done the 180 and for a while, it was working until she started working. I feel like I am being punished. She can go forever without sex. Now when I try to seduce he and be romantic, she does nothing in return to let me know she is interested. I'll even wear my smiley face underwear. Then nothing. Then after a week or more, she will let me know she wants to "have fun tonight" Do I tell her no, I'm not in the mood??????? heck no!!!! I even tell myself I will say no. My need is too great. 

Even if she is a cold fish, it is still a little better than my hand. It's geting close though!


Look into the 180 MetaSin. It won't change your wife, but it may help you


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> My wife is the same. Even after 20 years, sex is still PG rated. I still don’t know where it comes from.


So you have sex with a sheet between you and her pug watching you from underneath the blankets?

I'm going to agree with everyone else who is telling you to slow down.

I've had the same problem with my wife. She's not frigid or anything, but very sexually conservative. I had a difficult time introducing anything different into sex. Eventually I was able to work in a vibrator and a blind fold. Next I'm going for flavored lube so blow jobs will be a little more enjoyable for her.

If she's afraid to try something in the bedroom, maybe all she needs is a little push. There are tons of softcore sex manuals and books to open herself to new experiences (Good Girl's Guide to Bad Girl Sex) at every Barnes and Noble around. Some of these are even in local libraries. And there are plenty of tamer boardgames and card games that she may be more inclined to pay attention to. Instead of "I'm so sick of you asking me to do things I'm not comfortable with" she may go. "Hey, it's in the rules. Oh well. Pass me the stethoscope and bend over."

Maybe. 

Moderation and patience are the keys.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> It shouldn't matter who initiates... if YOU want sex, YOU should initiate it. Make her say no.


Quoted for truthiness.


> Otherwise, you will be a few years down the road fighting with her about sex and all she needs to say is "Well, if you wanted it you should have asked for it." and you can never say "You always say no."


Quoted for truthiness.


> As for OP, how about a compromise. Next time you have sex, you do it her way... anything she wants. If that means missionary under the blanket, with the lights off then that's the way you do it. Then the next time, you get to choose, but it has to be within reason. Toys, BJ, whatever.


QFT


> This way everyone gets what they like on a routine basis.


You get the idea.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> Catherine, while I respect your opinion, we're not talking about a second date experience. We've been together 15 years, she's my best friend, and other than this issue, our relationship is excellent. Not feeling safe or some level of fear is not a problem. I've never asked her to do anything that she was not comfortable with or treated her in a disrespectful manner. I do not pressure her or nag her or make her feel ashamed or inadequate. That's not how I work. The issue is, that I am trying to grow with her.


Just my two cents:

If my husband asked me to flash a trucker, I'd cut sex off from him too. I'm all for cleaveage, but total flashing someone? That _does not_ imply safety, it implies danger and uncertainty. Nor would I _ever_ go to a strip club with my husband. Ever. And if he suggested it, I'd be putting us in counciling. 

Perhaps your wife doesn't feel as safe as you think she does? When you made these requests what did she _say_?

Also, the reason people mention the flashing is because that kind of thing is going to effect how any wife feels about her sex life with her husband. You can't mention that and expect people not to bring it up. Those sorts of things effect the sexual relationship.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Also, the reason people mention the flashing is because that kind of thing is going to effect how any wife feels about her sex life with her husband. You can't mention that and expect people not to bring it up. Those sorts of things effect the sexual relationship.


MetaSin doesn't really want his wife to flash other drivers. All he really wants is to spice up their sex life and she isn't interested in doing anything. After 15 years. "flashing was just an example he gave. He wants his wife to have her own ideas or at least have a fantasy...anything!


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

@CreatedtoWrite
The way I see it is a successful sexual relationship can range from only having sex for procreation, all the way to swingers clubs and open marriages. The only underlying definition of success is that both partners are happy and comfortable with it. For instance, I know lots of couples who go/have gone to strip clubs together and seem to be happier and closer than most conservative couples I know. Just because it's not your cup of tea doesnt mean everyone else in the world is a twisted pervert who should burn in hell. 

You, like several others, are quick to jump on the "OMG" bandwagon, which immediately shuts down any open-mindedness with regards to other people's relationships. 

I will again make the point that I'm not a raging, horny, pervert who gets his kicks in strip clubs or exhibitionism. Nor is my wife a chastity belt wearing nun who doesnt have or enjoy sex. We have sex, we enjoy sex, however, being with the same partner for 15 years presents with challenges that I've never faced before. The routine becomes robotic, predictable, and at times boring. The stasis of our sex life obviously has not affected my wife to the degree that it has me. I never said that I was dealing with it correctly or efficiently, that's why I posted here to begin with. 

Thanks to the others for examples of your experiences and suggestions that you've offered.


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

Exactly, Thank you AG.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> MetaSin doesn't really want his wife to flash other drivers. All he really wants is to spice up their sex life and she isn't interested in doing anything. After 15 years. "flashing was just an example he gave. He wants his wife to have her own ideas or at least have a fantasy...anything!


I get that. And that's a normal desire for anyone, male or female, to want their spouse to try new sexual things. The way he initially said it though, at least implied that he asked her to flash the trucker and she said no. That is going to have an effect, either positively or negatively. If there was more to it than this, he should have said so in the first place, or else people get the wrong idea. It's not our fault he doesn't give the details up front.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> @CreatedtoWrite
> The way I see it is a successful sexual relationship can range from only having sex for procreation, all the way to swingers clubs and open marriages. The only underlying definition of success is that both partners are happy and comfortable with it. For instance, I know lots of couples who go/have gone to strip clubs together and seem to be happier and closer than most conservative couples I know. Just because it's not your cup of tea doesnt mean everyone else in the world is a twisted pervert who should burn in hell.


Defensive much? My point was that the things you're suggesting are not things that come easily right off the bat, even for people who aren't sexually repressed. For someone with body image issues, like your wife, suggesting some of these things seems...extreme. I'm not saying anyone is going to burn in hell, so cool off, okay? You came asking for perspective and help, and sometimes that requires seeing things from a standpoint other than your own.



> You, like several others, are quick to jump on the "OMG" bandwagon, which immediately shuts down any open-mindedness with regards to other people's relationships.


_Or_ we could be trying to help you see some of what could be adding to what your wife feels? Notice I'm not saying it _is_ adding to it, but that it can. Obviously flashing the trucker wasn't something she was comfortable with, since it turned into an argument. 

Have you tried asking her what _does_ turn her on? If so, have you done those things and spent a good amount of time arousing her? 

In the first year of my marriage, I often experienced the feeling of dirtiness after sex. Like what we were doing was somehow tainted or toxic, even though I enjoyed it. But then I felt guilty for enjoying it, like I was a s*lut. My husband wanted to video tape us. I was so uncomfortable, but went for it, thinking it might help me feel better. Nope. He asked if I would strip for him, and my initial mental reaction was, "He*ll no!" but I did it anyway, thinking it might help. Nope. 

It wasn't until I was able to get past the taboo aspects of sex, and accept my body and natural urges for what they are(beautiful) that I was able to do these things with enthusiasm. And that came from my husband devoting hours to making me feel sexy and aroused. He found what really worked for me. He found my boundaries, and worked with them. The pleasure of feeling aroused, truly and fully aroused, helped me to overcome the dirty feelings. Since we took our time and made love, as opposed to just wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, it felt beautiful. Now? Wham-bam is just fine. Videos are just fine. Pictures are just fine. Stripping is just fine. But it took months to get there.



> I will again make the point that I'm not a raging, horny, pervert who gets his kicks in strip clubs or exhibitionism. Nor is my wife a chastity belt wearing nun who doesnt have or enjoy sex. We have sex, we enjoy sex, however, being with the same partner for 15 years presents with challenges that I've never faced before. The routine becomes robotic, predictable, and at times boring. The stasis of our sex life obviously has not affected my wife to the degree that it has me. I never said that I was dealing with it correctly or efficiently, that's why I posted here to begin with.


I don't think you're a pervert, and never said you were. I just know how I would react to some of the things you mentioned you've tried to get your wife to do, and I know they would make me feel terrible. The most important thing is that you communicate with your wife what you desire, and then also listen to what she desires. In my marriage when sex has declined there's always been deeper reasons, usually involving either my husband feeling emotionally detached or me feeling detached. What caused the detachment had to be dealt with before any progress would last.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Have you tried asking her what _does_ turn her on? If so, have you done those things and spent a good amount of time arousing her?
> 
> It wasn't until I was able to get past the taboo aspects of sex, and accept my body and natural urges for what they are(beautiful) that I was able to do these things with enthusiasm. And that came from my husband devoting hours to making me feel sexy and aroused. He found what really worked for me. He found my boundaries, and worked with them. The pleasure of feeling aroused, truly and fully aroused, helped me to overcome the dirty feelings. Since we took our time and made love, as opposed to just wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, it felt beautiful. Now? Wham-bam is just fine. Videos are just fine. Pictures are just fine. Stripping is just fine. But it took months to get there.


How did your husband make you feel sexy?

I think MetaSin and I are alike here ...I think that's what Meta wants...To accept her body and not think of sex as dirty. As far as different positions or different locations. For me, we have a closed in patio... I would love to have sex there . Nobody will see us at all...Nothing dirty about that.

Get over the flashing thing... I think it just came out the wrong way. 

C2W... How did your husband help you get to the point to where you are now? That may help Meta as well as myself.
At the same time, for me anyway, it takes soooo much effort to work with my wife to get very little in the way of ME feeling desired... For once, I would like it for my wife to be the one to turn me on...I would be happy if she would just rub my leg if we are on the couch...she could drape her leg over mine or something... Actually...Meta may feel the same. For me, all my wife has to do is get naked and I am ready...I want more than that. Otherwise it's just blah...

They been together 15 years. My wife and I for 20. You would think by now I would know how to turn my wife on...How to lite her fire, how to desire me, how to ignite that passion we have never really had yet...


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

MetaSin said:


> Hi, I am new here. I was browsing the internet looking for advice and decided to post here. My wife and I have been married for 10 years and were together 5 years before that. I love my wife and I am still very attracted to her physically. She is very conservative and not very adventurous when it comes to sexual activity.
> 
> Our sex life has gradually declined and consists of the same routine repeatedly. I'm a very sexual guy and have tried numerous things to reignite the spark. Most of my attempts end in failure and/or arguments. It's a turn on to me to be affectionate at spontaneous times or places, but that hardly ever goes over well. I've discussed different things such as toys, going to a strip club together, videotaping ourselves, or anything other than the usual robot routine. But she feels like these things are trashy and ****ty. Most recently, while driving down the highway, I tried to get her to flash a trucker as we passed by. It's not that Im into exhibitionism, I would just like to see some level of spontaneity or sexuality from her.
> 
> I fear that without some variety or break in routine may cost us our marriage in the near future. Am I just a jackass who should be happy with what I have or am I justified in desiring more excitement?


There are a thousand chapters between "robot routine" sex, and "flashing truckers" and going to strip clubs together.

You don't sound very sexual so much as you sound very kinky. There is a difference. 

What have you done to actually improve the sex between the two of you in the bedroom, sans the involvement of outside people, and objects?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> I have tried so many times to initiate in our SUV with tinted windows in a parking lot, or just under our carport at home…no interest.
> .


Maybe she just does not want to have a felony conviction and be on the sex offender list for the rest of her life.

Unless your windows are so tinted that no one could ever see what's going on you both could get arrested.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Unless your windows are so tinted that no one could ever see what's going on you both could get arrested.


Not in Portland.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> I won't discuss whether you are right or wrong, only to say that what you said is steering away from the topic at hand. If the intricacies of a long-term relationship between a male and female could be broken down to 1) Get a hooker, 2) Get a dog, or 3) make sure youre not a doormat, then you would be considered a genius and you should next work on world peace.
> 
> The point of my post was the fact that my sex drive and sexuality is clearly higher and stronger than my wife's. Any frustration I have stems from that, not my inability to communicate that sex is one of my needs. I was looking for others who might have or have had a similar situation and possible resolutions. It wasn't my goal to put myself on the chopping block for the judgement of others.


Was your sex life with her satisfying when before you married her and short after you married her?


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> In the first year of my marriage, I often experienced the feeling of dirtiness after sex. Like what we were doing was somehow tainted or toxic, even though I enjoyed it. But then I felt guilty for enjoying it, like I was a s*lut. My husband wanted to video tape us. I was so uncomfortable, but went for it, thinking it might help me feel better. Nope. He asked if I would strip for him, and my initial mental reaction was, "He*ll no!" but I did it anyway, thinking it might help. Nope.
> 
> It wasn't until I was able to get past the taboo aspects of sex, and accept my body and natural urges for what they are(beautiful) that I was able to do these things with enthusiasm. And that came from my husband devoting hours to making me feel sexy and aroused. He found what really worked for me. He found my boundaries, and worked with them. The pleasure of feeling aroused, truly and fully aroused, helped me to overcome the dirty feelings. Since we took our time and made love, as opposed to just wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, it felt beautiful. Now? Wham-bam is just fine. Videos are just fine. Pictures are just fine. Stripping is just fine. But it took months to get there.


MONTHS? You're husband is a miracle worker. I'm going on my second decade here.  The two of you could earn a million if you went on a national speaking tour.

Seriously... I would pay cash money for someone to teach me how to make my wife feel sexy.

(Okay, we're seriously derailing here. I'm going to make another thread about this.)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> My wife has never let me know what turns her on... I think it's because nothing does. I can totally relate to your situation.
> I haven't really surrendered...Well, I kinda have. For me there has never been any passion...ever! We were kind of friends from the start. I just hoped that the sex would grow the longer we were together.
> 
> When we increased our frequency, it was me that became aggressive and I stopped relieving myself like I did for 18 years or so. Then it was "scheduled" sex. Every Tuesday, Thursday morning, and Saturday night. If I wanted more than that It was like she was doing me a favor...Even then, she would just lay there...Her on top???she gets tired after just 1 minute. Maybe I will roll her over on her side or something, but it is still me doing all the work.
> ...


I don't get how a woman can be like this. The whole cold fish thing is so foreign to me. Why did she even get married?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> ....
> 
> C2W... How did your husband help you get to the point to where you are now? That may help Meta as well as myself.
> At the same time, for me anyway, it takes soooo much effort to work with my wife to get very little in the way of ME feeling desired... For once, I would like it for my wife to be the one to turn me on...I would be happy if she would just rub my leg if we are on the couch...she could drape her leg over mine or something... Actually...Meta may feel the same. For me, all my wife has to do is get naked and I am ready...I want more than that. Otherwise it's just blah...
> ...


I wonder if you wife needs you to teach her what to do. 

Do the two of you do things like cuddle on the couch? If you do maybe pull he leg over on your and tell you how you love it.

Also wonder if some romantic, erotic movies/films might work. It sounds like she has no idea how to get started without you doing the jump starting.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> MetaSin doesn't really want his wife to flash other drivers. All he really wants is to spice up their sex life and she isn't interested in doing anything. After 15 years. "flashing was just an example he gave. He wants his wife to have her own ideas or at least have a fantasy...anything!


He has made it clear that he does not want her to flash a truck driver and that it was his way to start a conversation about sex.

But he also said that the conversation ended in an argument. That makes me wonder if his wife was offended by it no matter what he was thinking. 

He might be having a hard time communicating. This might be part of the issue. She might not understand what is really on his mind.

That's where the flash the trucker example come in. I mean he used it as an example here of how repressed she is. Now he says that the used it but it's not what he meant.

==Communication problems.


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

@C2W
After rereading my post, I realize that it sounded harsher than I had intended. But it's frustrating when people focus on the flashing bit as the underlying issue. In the interest of not boring everyone to tears and getting to the point, I left out a lot of details that have brought me to this crossroad. 

Your situation that you described is very familiar to me. As with any newly married couple, our sex life was frequent and fun. However, she has always been resistant with trying anything new. It even took me a while to even get her to try new positions. It seemed to be a combination of being self concious about her body and also feeling that it was dirty and inappropriate. I was patient, and eventually got her comfortable with pictures, video, toys, etc. Despite that, I was and am always the one who has to initiate any sexual activity. 

I can deal with all of this for a certain amount of time. But with me constantly having to approach her and her never approaching me for sexual activity combined with me meeting some level of resistance any time I mention a variation from the normal routine, has really taken the enjoyment out of it. Keep in mind, I am okay with the standard, non-kinky sex routine. It's not that I want to do kinky stuff every single time, just every now and then to keep the interest and fun involved. Even when that happens, it feels as though she does it just to get it out of my system and that she is doing me a favor by doing something out of the ordinary. 

As far as any conversations about her desires and what she enjoys, we've had that conversation thousands of times. It's like pulling teeth to get any information and the end result is, she simply wants to "make love" and not just have sex. Again, I am ok with that and I make every effort to make things more intimate and not about swinging from the chandeliers. I try to let her know in some fashion that I love her several times a day.. a hug, a shoulder rub, a random slap on the ass or by simply telling her. And it's not that she is incapable of showing affection altogether, but it's not very often. 

It's no secret that my sex drive is a lot higher than hers. As a physician, I realize that some medications that she takes, birth control, etc, lowers her libido, and I take that into account. And with her being self-concious, she has an excellent body and is a very beautiful woman and I have told her that millions of times. But with these factors added together, it begins to seem like a chore to have sex. 

Someone mentioned that she may have lost her attraction to me. I seriously doubt that's the case. I'm a good looking guy with a lovable personality. I'm in great shape and I make a ton of money. I say that not in an egotistical manner, only to rule the fact that I'm not a fat guy with hygiene issues who mooches off his parents. 

I guess the bottom line is, I just want her to be a more sexual and passionate person. For her to let me know that she does in fact still want me. Which, to me, basically translates to being more sexually aggressive and adventurous. I see my wife as my partner, as my equal, I just wish that were the case when comes to the effort in the bedroom.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> @C2W
> 
> I guess the bottom line is, I just want her to be a more sexual and passionate person. For her to let me know that she does in fact still want me. Which, to me, basically translates to being more sexually aggressive and adventurous. I see my wife as my partner, as my equal, I just wish that were the case when comes to the effort in the bedroom.


MetaSin,
The more post I read of yours, the more similar our situations seem. I am not a Doctor, but many of my clients call me Doc… Also unlike your wife my wife is way overweight and doesn’t do much to improve her body and health. I used to think I was good looking. I am starting to doubt that, even though I jog 2 miles a day, do 100 push-ups and several other exercises and I work hard tostay healthy!

A while back, I asked my wife what actor would she want to do love scene with? She didn’t have an answer for me…She said she had to think about it…So something as simple of a fantasy love scene with an actor, her mind wouldn’t go there. After all, it’s just a fantasy… I mentions a couple female actresses I would want to do a love scene with and she jokingly said she would do a love scene with them too... Sometimes I wonder...


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

AG, you didnt mention which actresses it was. I was curious to know. I agree with you and I appreciate your posts.

I think I could deal with some level of being overweight. With me, it's more about their self-respect and what drives them as a person. I'm attracted to stronger, independent women who have their own goals and aspirations. I could not ever have a relationship with a woman who sits a home and has no hopes of ever achieving anything.

If we could get our sex life worked out, I suppose I'd have to search for something different to complain about. Maybe start a career in politics.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

When I met my wife, she worked on many movie productions. Some of which turned out big. We even moved so she could achieve some of her acting goals. She just gave up on it after I moved our stuff. Acting is a tough world and she moved on because it was too challenging for her. I really want her to be passionate about something....ANYTHING

Shes been a SAHM until just recently when I made her get a job. After 9 years, it's time. That's why sex has been so little lately.

For years now, I've been wanting her to get back in to at least theater. Maybe take acting classes, or just do something. In 8 years now except for about 5 evenings...total, she is always home. No hobbies, no goals, no interest, no skills, no dreams, desires. Her skills as a homemaker is pretty sad. That when I started my 180 and started hobbies of my own without the guilt of being away from home a couple evenings a week. No..It's not happy hour....

As far as the actresses....Cameron Diaz tops the list. She was the one my wife would do a love scene with. Halle Berry is just delicious, Julianne Moore...Yummy...Then Julia Roberts. I adore her mouth...Just right for kissing.

If My wife didn't have an attorney for a sister?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> How did your husband make you feel sexy?
> 
> I think MetaSin and I are alike here ...I think that's what Meta wants...To accept her body and not think of sex as dirty. As far as different positions or different locations. For me, we have a closed in patio... I would love to have sex there . Nobody will see us at all...Nothing dirty about that.


Honestly, it took gentle prodding. Same as when he first started making love to me. He didn't just decide he wanted sex and sit me down and say so. He kissed me. Playing with my hair. Breathed on my neck. He got to know every inch of my body _before_ we were ever naked together. He showed me that he would be gentle with me, that he would take his time with me, that he would never go beyond where I was comfortable. Same after we married and he wanted more kinky sex. He didn't just have a conversation about different positions. He took time arousing me....*fully* arousing me. Not just spending ten minutes giving me oral, but touching me, kissing me all over, tracing his finger around the secret parts of me. He reminded me that I have always been able to trust him. And then, gently, when he felt the time was right, he asked to try a specific position. Not right then, but sometime that night. If I said no, that was it. He didn't mentioned it until the next time we made love, but he continued to show me how trustworthy he was. In time he got what he wanted.



> Get over the flashing thing... I think it just came out the wrong way.
> 
> C2W... How did your husband help you get to the point to where you are now? That may help Meta as well as myself.
> At the same time, for me anyway, it takes soooo much effort to work with my wife to get very little in the way of ME feeling desired... For once, I would like it for my wife to be the one to turn me on...I would be happy if she would just rub my leg if we are on the couch...she could drape her leg over mine or something... Actually...Meta may feel the same. For me, all my wife has to do is get naked and I am ready...I want more than that. Otherwise it's just blah...


It can sometimes take a lot of a woman to initiate. Especially if she struggles with body image. I love being seduced, but being the seducer? It takes a special part of me to do that. I have to be in a very playful, dominating mood and I'm naturally submissive in my relationships. I can't help you with this. All I can say is that when my husband does and says the things that fulfill me the most, I truly feel sexy and desirable. Even with makeup smudged on my face. That makes me initiate. 



> They been together 15 years. My wife and I for 20. You would think by now I would know how to turn my wife on...How to lite her fire, how to desire me, how to ignite that passion we have never really had yet...


For me, these things have changed slightly with the few years my husband and I have been together. Only asking her what turns her on will help this.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

I can understand that most women would rather be seduced. It feel great to be desired and to have somebody put forth the effort for romance. That's the part of feeling desired EVERYBODY wants. Not just women 

What MetSin was talking about as well as myself, It takes sooo much foreplay to get vanilla sex. When he wants to add a little spice to the sex, it back fires and there is an argument.

For me, I was sooo patient with my wife. She was a virgin at 25 and it took me 6 months to get her panties off. A full year before we had sex. I would spend hours massaging, rubbing, kissing her all over. her panties stayed on...Then it became like I had to prove I was different. I wouldn't leave her because she wouldn't put out. 

My wife doesn't know what turns her on, even after all these years...I think Meta may feel the same way about his wife.

I don't want to hijack this thread here. I am pretty close to that..Sorry MetaSin.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

I am having trouble with sex life also, but sex is not all that important. If my husband and I never had sex again I wouldn't leave him. He is my best friend and a great companion and that is more important than anything in my opinion. We do a lot of cuddling and hand holding. I do crave physical contact and that satisfies that.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MetaSin said:


> @C2W
> Someone mentioned that she may have lost her attraction to me. I seriously doubt that's the case. I'm a good looking guy with a lovable personality. I'm in great shape and I make a ton of money. I say that not in an egotistical manner, only to rule the fact that I'm not a fat guy with hygiene issues who mooches off his parents.


What you are describing are qualities that a woman will find attractive when looking for a man to pair up with. Things that a women will certainly appreciate when dating. But your wife has already bagged her prey. And yes those things need to stay fairly level in order to keep her hypergamy at bay. But what do you do or how do you act in order to get her tingling? Do you do things that might be considered unpredictable? Change things up. I'm not talking about sexual things. Do you tell her to get ready and "order" her to the car. Then drive her to a restaurant of your choosing? Maybe even order for her. That would be exhibiting dominance. Not all the time mind you but occasionally to spice things up outside the bedroom. Have you ever tried sex a little rougher without necessarily asking first. Not in a way to hurt her of course but ragdoll her a little. Maybe pull a little hair when she's getting into things. Or light spanking. If you have tried it what was her reaction?

I have a friend that is short, bald and not very athletic. He makes decent money but he's certainly not wealthy. And he pulls women like there is no tomorrow. I once saw him start talking to a woman at a bar we were at. She kept blowing him off. But he kept at her. He threw a little insult at her. Asked her an embarrassing question or two. Soon he was touching her hand. And before you know it the ice queen was going home with him. Its his attitude. He reeks confidence and acts like he is a prize that the women should fight over. And it works.

My point is maybe your wife needs something other than patience and loving understanding. Maybe she needs you to try something different to get her to open up to you more and to be more aggressive.

Just a thought.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> @C2W
> After rereading my post, I realize that it sounded harsher than I had intended. But it's frustrating when people focus on the flashing bit as the underlying issue. In the interest of not boring everyone to tears and getting to the point, I left out a lot of details that have brought me to this crossroad.
> 
> Your situation that you described is very familiar to me. As with any newly married couple, our sex life was frequent and fun. However, she has always been resistant with trying anything new. It even took me a while to even get her to try new positions. It seemed to be a combination of being self concious about her body and also feeling that it was dirty and inappropriate. I was patient, and eventually got her comfortable with pictures, video, toys, etc. Despite that, I was and am always the one who has to initiate any sexual activity.


I know you may not like to hear this, but you _might_ have to accept that your wife isn't an initiator. For myself, there are specific times when I am in the mood to initiate, and they are rare. When I was on birth control, they were nonexistent. Is your wife on BC? My BC knocked out my sex drive entirely. It made me feel horrible about my body, I put on weight faster than I ever have before, when I exercised and ate right, it took forever to lose even an inch, I felt bloated and moody all the time; these things aren't conducive to being sexually healthy. If your wife is on BC she could be struggling with these things too.



> I can deal with all of this for a certain amount of time. But with me constantly having to approach her and her never approaching me for sexual activity combined with me meeting some level of resistance any time I mention a variation from the normal routine, has really taken the enjoyment out of it. Keep in mind, I am okay with the standard, non-kinky sex routine. It's not that I want to do kinky stuff every single time, just every now and then to keep the interest and fun involved. Even when that happens, it feels as though she does it just to get it out of my system and that she is doing me a favor by doing something out of the ordinary.


I totally get this. My husband has positions that he loves that I despise. We rarely do those positions because, firstly, I don't orgasm from them and, second, they can be painful at times. Now that I'm not on BC the pain has practically disappeared and I definitely feel more...adventurous in some things. 

Have you asked her why she doesn't like doing those things? She may have a good reason that she's not telling you about. 



> As far as any conversations about her desires and what she enjoys, we've had that conversation thousands of times. It's like pulling teeth to get any information and the end result is, she simply wants to "make love" and not just have sex. Again, I am ok with that and I make every effort to make things more intimate and not about swinging from the chandeliers. I try to let her know in some fashion that I love her several times a day.. a hug, a shoulder rub, a random slap on the ass or by simply telling her. And it's not that she is incapable of showing affection altogether, but it's not very often.


It sounds to me like one of your top emotional needs is sexual fulfillment, and hers is likely affection. Have you read _His Needs, Her Needs_? My husband and I started it a couple weeks ago and it has changed a lot of aspects of our marriage in so many great ways. It helped us identify what the other needs emotionally. This will help her see the importance of sexual fulfillment to you, and you will be able to discuss what kinds of affection mean the most to her. For me, I need any and all kinds of affection. I can never get too much of it. For some women it's very specific things like getting a kiss every morning before they get out of bed, cuddling for five minutes every night before going to sleep, getting loving text messages every day, etc. 

While I love the playful tap on the a$$, it's not a sing of affection. That would fall under the admiration category.



> It's no secret that my sex drive is a lot higher than hers. As a physician, I realize that some medications that she takes, birth control, etc, lowers her libido, and I take that into account. And with her being self-concious, she has an excellent body and is a very beautiful woman and I have told her that millions of times. But with these factors added together, it begins to seem like a chore to have sex.


So she is on BC. I can tell you, I have a naturally high sex drive. I like it every other day, usually, and about forty-five minutes to an hour in duration. I like to do things like videos, pictures, positions, roleplay, stripping, etc. When I was on the pill, my sex drive disappeared. My vagina would hardly lubricate, and even if it did, it would _hurt_ everytime we had sex, no matter how aroused I was. I would cry as my husband finished himself off after maybe ten minutes if PIV. It made me feel awful inside. Emotionally I wanted to go back to the girl I was when I could have sex for two hours and not hurt, but physically, I couldn't last longer than ten minutes, even if I orgasmed. 

The BC could very likely be inhibiting your wife in deeper ways than you know. I'd talk to her about whether or not sex hurts, what kind of drive she things she has, etc. Cause it's very likely that her birth control is causing much of this. For me, it was the only problem, and once gone, my old sensual self came back.



> Someone mentioned that she may have lost her attraction to me. I seriously doubt that's the case. I'm a good looking guy with a lovable personality. I'm in great shape and I make a ton of money. I say that not in an egotistical manner, only to rule the fact that I'm not a fat guy with hygiene issues who mooches off his parents.
> 
> I guess the bottom line is, I just want her to be a more sexual and passionate person. For her to let me know that she does in fact still want me. Which, to me, basically translates to being more sexually aggressive and adventurous. I see my wife as my partner, as my equal, I just wish that were the case when comes to the effort in the bedroom.


This is a natural desire. However, bear in mind that not all women are the same. There's no magical switch that we can turn off and on, indicating what kind of sexual woman we're going to be. Some women, without any BC or hormone imbalances, simply aren't as into sex. But, since your wife is on BC, I have hope that that isn't the case. 

Do you remember what sex was like before your wife went on BC?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Already Gone said:


> I can understand that most women would rather be seduced. It feel great to be desired and to have somebody put forth the effort for romance. That's the part of feeling desired EVERYBODY wants. Not just women
> 
> What MetSin was talking about as well as myself, It takes sooo much foreplay to get vanilla sex. When he wants to add a little spice to the sex, it back fires and there is an argument.


I get what you're talking about. But there isn't a switch we turn on that says, "We want spice today". It does take time to build sexual trust where we feel more comfortable branching out of vanilla sex. Women with body image issues already struggle with negative thoughts. You would think that having spicy sex would make a woman feel better about herself, not worse, but this isn't always the case. For me, when I was at my worst, kinky sex made me feel even worse. I can't explain why, it just did. For us, having sex and making love aren't always the same thing, and if we already struggle with image issues, it's not going to be easy to work through it. 

Now, I'm not saying you should just lay back and take what you have. Not at all. Sex isn't important to just men, it's important to the atmosphere of the relationship, and I believe that women need to make a real effort to meet their husband's needs. But, you also have to realize that it's not going to change overnight, and you _are_ responsible for helping her. Seducing her, and taking time to build the trust she needs in the bedroom, is going to be essential in her journey to seducing you outside of the bedroom. 

I remember the first time my husband wanted to have sex in our car in a public place. I was mortified and couldn't go through with it. He saw how much it terrified me, and dropped the subject. Over a year and a half later, after trust had been built between us, _I_ brought it back up and we did it. More than once. And we don't have tainted windows. 



> For me, I was sooo patient with my wife. She was a virgin at 25 and it took me 6 months to get her panties off. A full year before we had sex. I would spend hours massaging, rubbing, kissing her all over. her panties stayed on...Then it became like I had to prove I was different. I wouldn't leave her because she wouldn't put out.


For some women this is important. I was with three guys who only wanted me for sex, and after I made it clear that I did not intend to have sex with them, they dumped me. Knowing that sex isn't the only factor driving a man to have a relationship with you is vitally important to some of us. And knowing that we've been dumped because we value our bodies doesn't make us feel that great, either. 



> My wife doesn't know what turns her on, even after all these years...I think Meta may feel the same way about his wife.
> 
> I don't want to hijack this thread here. I am pretty close to that..Sorry MetaSin.


She doesn't know what turns her on. At all? She can't think of anything? Is she on birth control?


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> I fear that without some variety or break in routine may cost us our marriage in the near future. Am I just a jackass who should be happy with what I have or am I justified in desiring more excitement?


I keep on rereading this thread...Go figure.

I am several years past this point. 
What C2W wrote about being more aggressive? I started that 2 years or so ago. I felt like I was raping my wife many times. I did pull her hair some. Not hard though. I became a lot rougher. After an 18 year drought, it was like I was making up for lost time.

I guess compared to how she was just 3 years ago, she HAS come a long way. Still, it hasn't really progressed beyond vanilla.

What I am trying to do now, like I said in an earlier post is just accept the situation. If I don't, I will lose my best friend because of something as crazy as sex. How can that be? I to feel like a JA because so much of my self worth and manliness, is because of sex. Maybe I really have to accept vanilla and just be happy with it! 

What I have been doing here lately is saying no when she wants sex. I'll say I am tired....That's what she says to me a lot.. She seems to be more in to sex then. 

Try saying no sometimes...Just a thought!


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## MetaSin (Dec 19, 2012)

@bfree
I've tried the aggressive approach a few times, my wife doesn't respond well to the domination behavior. She doesn't like to feel like she is being used as an object for my sexual release. As for myself, I'm not really into that sort of thing either. Like AG said, it feels forced, like rape, or at the very least like rage sex. 

I have also known some "George Constanza's" that pull women like crazy. And I agree, I believe there is a lot to be said for confidence in approaching women. But none of these fat, bald anomalies are successful at maintaining a relationship, atleast the ones I know. 

@C2W
The medication that she takes (BC) maily lowers her sex drive. It hasnt seemed to affect the sex directly, such as duration or any pain involvement. I know that when she is off her medication, the frequency of sex definately goes up, but again, Im still the initiator. 

As far as positions and such, like you, she has positions that she can not orgasm with, or that cause discomfort to her that I enjoy. She's a little over 5" tall and 105 lbs, and I'm 6' and 185 lbs, so that is understandable. In a typical scenario, I always do whatever I have to do to make sure she reaches orgasm, and she does everytime. No matter what position or oral or whatever, I'll do it to make sure she climaxes. If she wanted me to cross-dress, hop on one foot and whistle the Andy Griffith theme song, then that's what I would do. After she has an orgasm, she pretty much allows any position I want for me to finish as well. The point of all this being, she accomodates any positions that I want, atleast for a short time. 

AG is very good at reiterating the point of the thread: I dont want to lose my best friend. But a good sex life is like having running water in your house, it's no big deal unless you dont have it, or if it only supplies half your house. Maybe my wife simply is not an initiator, I could deal with that alone. But combined with a lack of drive and adventure, I may need to accept the fact that we may not be sexually compatible.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

I think you have to decide if this is a die on the sword issue for you. The fact is you are more adventurous than your wife. I would say that is probably more common than not, in varying degrees. She will probably not going to be the initiator, swing from the chandelier, brake out the chains and whips kind of girl. I think you need to ask yourself if this is a die on the sword issue. Does her love making, in whatever form, contain passion? Is she enjoying the lovemaking that you do have together? Does the marriage have intimacy outside of sex? As you get older, sex will play a lesser role, but intimacy must always remain. Please weigh these things carefully before you do anything rash.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

VFW said:


> I think you have to decide if this is a die on the sword issue for you. The fact is you are more adventurous than your wife. I would say that is probably more common than not, in varying degrees. She will probably not going to be the initiator, swing from the chandelier, brake out the chains and whips kind of girl. I think you need to ask yourself if this is a die on the sword issue. Does her love making, in whatever form, contain passion? Is she enjoying the lovemaking that you do have together? Does the marriage have intimacy outside of sex? As you get older, sex will play a lesser role, but intimacy must always remain. Please weigh these things carefully before you do anything rash.


I ask this myself all the time. It may all come down to ego. I want so much to feel desired. Sex is a huge part of that. For me there is very little intimacy outside of sex unless it is initiated my me. 


As we get older, sex IMO will be even more important. Off topic here but my Dad was cheating on my step-mom and he was in his 70's. He had no real men friends to tell this to so he told me. As if I really wanted to know this. He may have been bragging, but he said he was having sex everyday between my step-mom and this other woman. I HOPE at 70, I still have a sex drive. When the wife initiates and is sexual...comfortable with her body, sex is so much better for her as well as myself. My wife has had some moments over the last 20 years that helped me be confident in the bedroom and the sex was sooo much better.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

An easier way for me to put this is that my wife makes be feel unlovable and undesirable. It may not be true, but that is how I feel...At some point another woman WILL come along and make me feel loved and desired. I just want my wife to be that person


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

AG: I normally don't answer anybody but original posters in a thread, but ask the OP's indulgence in this case.

I guess my next question is have you told her this? Secondly, does it make a difference what he answer would be? If you have already made up your mind and any action on her part would be fruitless, when there really isn't much to say. If it does make a difference then you need to tell her exactly how you feel and what has to happen for this marriage to move forward. Counseling seems to be in order here and would seem to be a reasonable requirement for the healing process. This is going to be hard on all of you, so I think you may want to postpone this discussion until at least next week. Best wishes to you and your family.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MetaSin said:


> @C2W
> The medication that she takes (BC) maily lowers her sex drive. It hasnt seemed to affect the sex directly, such as duration or any pain involvement. I know that when she is off her medication, the frequency of sex definately goes up, but again, Im still the initiator.
> 
> As far as positions and such, like you, she has positions that she can not orgasm with, or that cause discomfort to her that I enjoy. She's a little over 5" tall and 105 lbs, and I'm 6' and 185 lbs, so that is understandable. In a typical scenario, I always do whatever I have to do to make sure she reaches orgasm, and she does everytime. No matter what position or oral or whatever, I'll do it to make sure she climaxes. If she wanted me to cross-dress, hop on one foot and whistle the Andy Griffith theme song, then that's what I would do. After she has an orgasm, she pretty much allows any position I want for me to finish as well. The point of all this being, she accomodates any positions that I want, atleast for a short time.
> ...


One thing I've learned recently is that my sexual experience is drastically increased when I'm properly aroused. And I don't mean just lubricating. For me real arousal begins when the physical arousal creates an emotional arousal. And it can take twenty to thirty minutes for this to happen. 

I know you want more than the vanilla sex. You want her to initiate. You want things that are more kinky. Sometimes, it takes reaching that emotional arousal for that to happen. I know it does for me. 

While I was on BC, the last thing I wanted to do was even have sex, let alone initiate. I orgasmed, and still would rather be doing something else. This could very well be the issue. And, believe me, I hated myself for suddenly not wanting sex, not enjoying sex, and ultimately, having pain during sex. Guilt is a terrible, terrible dampener on any feelings of intimacy in the bedroom. 

I wish I had more advice for you, but I can only tell you what worked for me. And while on BC, even those things didn't work. 

Perhaps look into a new form of BC?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

One thing I want to stress: although I don't know your wives personally, I can say that it's probably not likely that they are doing this intentionally. Especially if they're on the pill. I was overwrought with guilt everyday thinking about how long it had been since hubs and I had had sex. I wanted to want it more than anything, but I just couldn't bring myself to. I would cry while he was away from work. When we did have sex it was no longer than ten minutes, due to the pain. I left unsatisfied knowing that he was settling for less than he needed. Then, my husband slowly stopped meeting my needs and the intimacy dwindled. 

The first thing I would suggest is to increase what you do to meet your wife's emotional needs. Then, see if she would be willing to find another method of BC. If so, look for a method that would work because, for me, the BC was 100% the issue.


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## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

DeltaBlues said:


> "Doing so requires a lot of urging on my part, and has gotten to the point where it's not worth the effort."
> 
> Keep your drawers on, girl, it ain't worth the fight. By the time you drop 'em, I'll be gone and you'll be right where they fall the rest of yore life. - Mike Cooley, DBT
> 
> For what it's worth... if people sing about it, its a pretty common thing.


Very cool to see a DBT quote on here!


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## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

Hey OP, 

You are not alone, and I think I understand what you're trying to say and accomplish with your wife. It is immensely frustrating when your SO doesn't reciprocate or value your feelings in the relationship, and then you start feeling desperate to try/suggest just about anything to get a spark going again. Usually to no avail. Ugh!

Anyway, I'm in the same boat. My wife is reserved and conservative about sex (though she hasn't always been). She's becoming more and more of a prude as our marriage continues. I believe, very strongly, that I have not changed. I'm as sexual as I ever was, and I also treat her as lovingly as I ever did. She has just changed and I have NO idea how to get her back. She knows it's important to me doesn't prioritize the issue to any extent. Every so often we'll have a talk and she'll say she should see her OB/GYN to see what's going on, but then she doesn't. 

She has some other emotional issues/history that seem to be bogging her down a bit (though they never did before), so I'm trying to be patient, but I'm growing weary of this whole thing. It's not just about sex - it's about a lack of respect for my needs and desires. When she has a need from me, I work hard to meet it because I know it's important to her and us. When I have one, it gets pushed to one of the lowest priorities in her life. 

I've recently read "No More Mr. Nice Guy," and that has helped me gain some perspective on my thoughts, attitudes and actions in the marriage. Things are tough right now, but I'm hoping and praying for some change to come about in the near future. 

Unfortunately, while I would not end my marriage over lack of sex, there is more to it than that. A lack of sexual interest signifies other lacking areas. My wife is losing me. I simply can't remain very connected to her when the physical aspect is not fullfilling...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think all of you guys know this, but I'll mention it again in case it informs anything.

As women get older, have children, change, they can become much more self-conscious about how they look naked. This can take a big toll on their sex lives - they can feel unattractive or just stupidly shy. Body image is very big and has a lot to do with how a sex life can change. Just saying - again.

I expect that if you respond to this you will say that you know this & no doubt you do, but you can't really know how large an effect this can be & how paranoid it can make someone feel.

A good friend of mine had had a baby and it was 6 weeks after the delivery when she didn't feel the slightest bit attractive. Her H was starved for sex by this point & when he reached for her, her reaction was 'Are you kidding me? I am fat and exhausted. How could you possibly want me?' He thought she was rejecting him, but she was just massively insecure.


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## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I think all of you guys know this, but I'll mention it again in case it informs anything.
> 
> As women get older, have children, change, they can become much more self-conscious about how they look naked. This can take a big toll on their sex lives - they can feel unattractive or just stupidly shy. Body image is very big and has a lot to do with how a sex life can change. Just saying - again.
> 
> ...


I really do understand this whole body image thing. While my W definitely has issues with that, there is something more going on too. We had our 2nd & final child almost 4 years ago and she has since run 2 marathons & many other races as well. Her body is A-OK & she gets complimented on it (and her general appearance) frequently by me & others too. That being the case, I know she is insecure about her body, and was before kids too, yet she was always more than happy to engage in exciting sexual activities with me. Not anymore.


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