# I am concerned my wife may have cheated



## Worriedhusband3

Hi Everyone, I really need some advice. I am very concerned that my wife may have cheated on me in some way last weekend but I am not sure. She went out with a group of friends for a moms night out in the city to see a band at a bar. This was an overnight and they had 3 hotel rooms. I thought everything was fine when she got home but then I started to get suspicious when she suddenly said she was bleeding like she had her period. My wife has not had her period in almost 4 years since having our last child. Then the following day I see pictures of her at the bar on Facebook looking very flirty with whoever was taking the pictures for the band. I got suspicious and found out via her e-mail that she did not return to her room until the early morning. One of her friends was joking with her on a private Facebook group for her Moms group about it. My wife replied back saying nothing happened we had French fries at a dinner they stayed in the lobby before she started to throw up. I don’t think my wife would admit to doing anything on a site with 20 women so she could be lying there! I checked my wife’s phone this morning and noticed her friend was calling her at 5:30AM that morning so they must have been worried too. What I am nervous about is that she claims this period started at 2:30AM to me so why would she be out to 5:30 with it un prepared since it’s been so long since she had it. As you can imagine my mind was running wild as to how it started! In addition I was talking to my wife on Tuesday and one of her friends texted her while I was next to her asking if she had a private e-mail. I don’t know how to confront her on this since I lost her trust a few months ago because I saw something else suspicious on her phone and confronted her. That turned out to be nothing. Very conflicted and I don’t know what to do!


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## Worriedhusband3

We are also in marrige counciling and we have a session today. Not sure if I should bring this up. I really think if I am wrong about this I could destroy our marriage but I am very scared I am right.


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## jnj express

Do not confront---you will lose all credibility, when you do have something, really solid, then you can plan on how to confront, and go from there.

Quietly go about investigating---use the various electronic spy instruments available, and just keep a close eye on her

Watch for any changes in lifestyle, differences in dress, make-up,wieght/body improvement---changes in comings, and goings

Just think of ways to keep tabs on what she does---

Are you really good friends with any of her girlfriends, that would talk seriously with you

If it was a ONS, with just some guy she picked up---then there will be no follow-up on her part---so that will be a dead end

Is your mge., having any problems, that would cause her to seek outside sex-----be honest about your answer---don't try to make like there is nothing wrong---if there are problems---the people here on this website can help you---they have a lot of expertise in these areas---but they do need info, before they can give advice.


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## bandit.45

GNOs (Girls Nights Out) are death to a marriage.

You need to work on uncovering more evidence before you mak any accusations.

1) Install a keylogger on her computer to see what she's typing, and if you can snoop through her e-mails and Facebook page to see what you can find. Oftentimes cheaters have secret Facebook and e-mail accounts set up. My wife did, that's how I caught her.

2) Figure out how to download the cell texts onto your computer from her phone if you can.

3) Go to Wal-Mart and buy a VAR (voice activated recorder - $40-$50) and velcro it underneath the front seat of her car to catch her phone conversations while she's driving.

4) If you have the cash, also buy a GPS to hide in her car to track her movements. 

These are just some of the things you can do to gather evidence. Do not confront her until you have collected a substantially damaging array of evidence that points to infidelity.

Her girlfriends will circle the wagons to protect her and they will tell you nothing. A married woman who goes to a concert and stays out until the we morning hours with no legitimate excuse is, in my opinion, up to no good.

And the blood thing. Holy crap! 

You must be going through hell. So sorrry friend.


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## Shaggy

Wow, at a minimum your wife is making horrible dangerous choices. She let her friends leave her alone on her own at the bar to fend fir herself? Or worse with some guy. Even if she didn't cheat, doing that with some guy alone is what singe girls do, not married women.

You shoud drop a keylogger onto the PC today to catch any secret accounts. Is her phone locked?

At a minimum, her actions say no more moms party trips.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Wives out all night having hotels to come back to drinking heavily hanging out with men can challenge a marriage in more ways than one. Some folks on here feel this is just a bit of fun and maybe it is for them.

In your case who knows. But even if she did nothing with another man you now have to deal with the unknowns. I hope she did not have sex with another guy. Maybe she did meet a guy and they talked. Maybe she made out with someone. Maybe she just disrespected herself and got stinking drunk and was face down somewhere for a while. 

I don't know your background but you have MC coming up. Why?

How long have you been married? Is this type of GNO something regular? Has there been infidelity in the marriage?


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## Gabriel

Two things I need help with to understand things better here.

1) why are you in MC to begin with?

2) someone help me out, why is the blood a smoking gun? She hasn't had her period in 4 years, but presumably she's been having sex with her H during that time, right? So why would having sex with a different person cause bleeding all of a sudden? Don't get why that's related, but maybe I'm just not thinking of it.


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## Shaggy

She may not be having her period at all, she may be trying to put him off and cover up something down there. Perhaps she's worried she got an std and is waiting for test results.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy

Tough call. I don't know what the appropriate solution is, but whatever you do don't let her know what your sources of info are.


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## Worriedhusband3

JNJ - My wife has been on a health kick for a while just losing some weight etc. She actually gained a bit back latley. This week she has been to the gym 3 times but I don't think its cause for concern. I am not really good friends with any of her friends. We have been in MC for about 3 months and things seemed to be improving. This was triggered by me finding out she was talking to a guy at the gym. I found this out via the same Facebook group. I caught that very early and I really do beleive her that that was nothing. 

Bandit - Do VAR make any noice at all? And yes I am going through hell. I need to know the truth. I gave her open opportunity to tell me but she keeps lying about going back to the room with her friends.

Entropy - We have been married for 10 years in November and we have 3 kids. The GNO thing is regular but typically just a dinner and then home. An over night only happens maybe 2 times a year. As far as I know there has never been infidelity by either of us.


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## Halien

Worriedhusband3 said:


> We are also in marrige counciling and we have a session today. Not sure if I should bring this up. I really think if I am wrong about this I could destroy our marriage but I am very scared I am right.


Where do you draw the line on what would be suspicious enough to demand and answer, without feeling like you'll get sent to the corner in punishment?

Let's see - flirting on a night out of town doen't do it. A friend wanting a secret email so they can talk further doesn't do it. Spending the entire night alone, unaccounted for doesn't do it. Bleeding, which defies her normal state doesn't do it. (Do you REALLY buy this? More likely that she had unprotected sex and doesn't want to give you a STD until she can be checked) So, you can't expect to be treated with respect if you question suspicious behaviors unless you catch her with another man between her thighs?

Nine people out of ten will say that it appears that she cheated on you. If it happened to me, heck, I'D even think I cheated. When it comes to our marriage, when the rest of us get into a situation where it appears that we had a one night stand, we feel the burden of proving our faithfulness, and would never blame our spouse for doubting us, because it is our stupidity that got us into this. 

One day, you'll wonder why you were never in a marriage where your wife cared enough for you to explain her blatant disregard for your feelings. When you get older, you might even realize that part of being a man includes standing up for what you believe to be right, even if your wife makes you stand in the corner as punishment.

Personally, I'd bring it up, and if the counselor tried to shut it down, tell them that you do not need their services again. If your wife makes you out to be the bad guy, take it to be what it obviously was. If the friends with her, the ones who saw the flirting behind the pictures, feared that she was with another man at 5:30, then I think that it is okay for her husband to think the same thing, and not feel like he'll be punished by his wife for doing so.


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## Worriedhusband3

Gabriel - She has never bleed with me so who knows maybe this guy was big. Again just me being paranoid if she did something. Its more of the timing thing that worries me. If she was bleeding why was she out until 5:30 AM when she told me it started at 2:30 PM

Shaggy - Ironically she had a gyno appt on Monday already scheduled. She told me the DR said no sex for 2 weeks and did labs. She said the Dr. said it was a clot but who knows since I know she lied to me about something already


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## bandit.45

> Bandit - Do VAR make any noice at all? And yes I am going through hell. I need to know the truth. I gave her open opportunity to tell me but she keeps lying about going back to the room with her friends.


This is the one I ordered through Amazon right after I found out my wife was having an online affair. It works well and makes no sound at all -- completely digital.

Amazon.com: Philips Digital Voice Tracer Recorder 612 (LFH0612/27): Electronics


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## Worriedhusband3

Halien all great points thank you. I am just so nervous about confronting her right now. As soon as I do I know she will change all her passwords and I will never gain any more proof. I really hope I am wrong. I am just devistated right now. I can't eat, sleep or work.


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## Halien

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Halien all great points thank you. I am just so nervous about confronting her right now. As soon as I do I know she will change all her passwords and I will never gain any more proof. I really hope I am wrong. I am just devistated right now. I can't eat, sleep or work.


That's my point, my friend. You are devastated, and this isn't the first situation where she was flirting. If you get tired of being devastated, you can tell her that her half-truths will be taken to mean that she is cheating, and you will remove yourself from a marriage where trust and mutual respect are not sacred. She can promise to end the flirting, girls night out, etc, and be an honest partner going forward, even if you don't dig in any more to this incident. Your gut already knows what happened anyway.

If she is willing to dig her heels in over a situation that was so blatantly questionable, and ask for divorce, isn't this telling you what your life will be like in the next 20 years if you do nothing? MC will change nothing if girls night out, with no accountablity, regardless of the suspician, can be set in stone as a right, or flirting with no pushback from her husband without fear of being punished by her attitude.

She can show you the Dx receipt from her doctor visit, if she is required. It will list procedures done, tests ordered. If she threw it away, she can get another. The "two weeks off" without sex just conveninetly covers the time needed to get results back on STD panels.


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## vi_bride04

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Halien all great points thank you.* I am just so nervous about confronting her right now. As soon as I do I know she will change all her passwords and I will never gain any more proof.* I really hope I am wrong. I am just devistated right now. I can't eat, sleep or work.


Why would she change her passwords? What would she have to hide? And you simply asking questions a husband has every right to ask would cause this behavior?

............:scratchhead:


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## Worriedhusband3

Halien you comments are valid and I appreceate the straight talk. I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly do you think I should say something.


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## jnj express

The flirty pictures---did you see her with anyone in the pix, or could she have just been posing and having some fun, when the pix were being taken.

The 2 to 5 gap in the A M---is a huge deadly red flag------somehow, you need to try to find out where she was---if ANYONE there knew----Do you know any of the H's of the women she went with---do you know any of them well enuff to have a serious talk with them, about your concerns

Go back and write down, each and every fact you have of info., leading up to 2, and what you know of, after 5, and see if anything comes up--------Do you think, each and everyone of these women, would cover for her----would none of them have her back, and try to reason with her, knowing she was about to wreck a family----try to find that one woman, who might help you----there may be someone there who would not condone what she was doing

I wonder if these women, have a pact of silence----you might really want to dig in and find out about this group of women, and possibly force her to end this GNO, thing if it is leading to her ability to stray with men they pick up for ONS-----

Who knows----this could be definitely her cheating---or it could be innocent----you need to investigate, a lot more!!!!!


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## Worriedhusband3

vi-bride - She changed her FB password a while ago and put a code on her phone. She told me the code a while ago saying she has nothing to hide. She erases her texts but has always done that so thats nothing new.


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## Shaggy

Do not confront. She will simply lie.

It does sound like something happened. Even the other girls are wondering, and they were there.

Get that var at Walmart today and get it under her car seat. Get two, so you can have one there while you listen to the other.

Check phone text records with your cell company.

Drop a keylogger onto her pc incase she does get a scret account.

Also, if she is doing the gym three times a week, you might want to check that she is actually there.

Do not confront, and do not ever ever ever reveal your sources.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Worriedhusband3

Hi Shaggy - Been looking at the phone records all ready but the weekend is not up on the site yet. My wife rarley uses the computer everything she does is on her phone. Its always by her side. I got up early today while she was sleeping to take a look and noticed the missed call from her firend and 5:30. All the texts are gone. and there were no calls to stragnge numbers I did not recognize. I do know she is at the gym because she checks in on FB.


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## Gabriel

I am so sorry man. Let's hope it's nothing, but there are clearly some bad signs here. The doctor is obligated to keep her medical conditions secret, so there is no way for you to know if she is telling you the truth about the 2 week sex hiatus. 

Is she on your insurance? If so, you can call your carrier and likely get info on the services provided (not results), and the dates of service - this may give you more clues. They will just tell you the name of patient covered, and date of service, and maybe the type of provider (ie gyno, laboratory, etc, etc). Carriers also issue things called Explanation of Benefits. They are somewhat detailed - it would say if she went to a lab for test results, for instance, but wouldn't reveal any results of course. These typically are issued several weeks after the service, however. But maybe by calling, you can get the info sooner. When calling, you can just say you are settling payments with the provider and need patient name/dates of service/amount charged/type of service. This might get you somewhere, it might not.

Even if she's not on your insurance, find out who her carrier is, and make sure to catch the mail. These statements are mailed to the home - again, weeks later though.

I would probably make the mistake of confronting her now, because I don't have a lot of tolerance for misery. But that might not be the best move at the moment. What have you asked her, exactly?

You could confront her with just the information you were able to deduce from what she told you. Or, you could say you ran into one of her friends and thet told a different story, and maybe she should reconsider what she has said. This one is risky though.


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## Worriedhusband3

I am doing a presentaton for work right now on the phone and typing all this. I just can't get my mind of off this. I just keep picturing of her with another man and I feel sick. I love her so much I don't want lose her but I have always said if she ever cheated on me that would be it. I will not stand for it even if it was a drunken mistake so I have to be sure. I know if she did something she must feel bad if she is covering it up so much. If all she did was talk to a guy all night that may be ok but I just need her to tell me.


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## warlock07

Wow, the gyno thing looks incredibly suspicious. Have you had sex after that? Check if she is taking any STD tests secretly in the mean time? The two weeks no sex seems to be an excuse for that. Put a GPS on her car. The period thing seems suspicious too. Check with the gyno report on that.


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## bandit.45

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Hi Shaggy - Been looking at the phone records all ready but the weekend is not up on the site yet. My wife rarley uses the computer everything she does is on her phone. Its always by her side. I got up early today while she was sleeping to take a look and noticed the missed call from her firend and 5:30. All the texts are gone. and there were no calls to stragnge numbers I did not recognize. I do know she is at the gym because she checks in on FB.


Have you ever met this "friend"? Are you sure its a woman?


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## Shaggy

Who was she in the lobby talking with??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Hi Shaggy - Been looking at the phone records all ready but the weekend is not up on the site yet. My wife rarley uses the computer everything she does is on her phone. Its always by her side. I got up early today while she was sleeping to take a look and noticed the missed call from her firend and 5:30. All the texts are gone. and there were no calls to stragnge numbers I did not recognize. I do know she is at the gym because she checks in on FB.


She can check in and leave the place right ? Don't be an idiot. GPS her car immediately


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## warlock07

> My wife replies with "I'm guessing you're referring to my early am return??? Lol Nothing happened all I did was go to a diner for French fries. Then we hung in the lobby and the security guard kept shushing us.


With who? Definitely a guy. It looks like she wants to stop the gossips about something before they become big


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## Worriedhusband3

Yes I know for a fact she was out with these women. I know this firend and her Phone number. They carpooled to the GNO. She could check in and leave but I know she is there. She oftern brings my son to the day care there.

I don't know who she was talking to. THats what I need to find out. By the comment back and forth to her friend that nothing happened it had to be a guy.

The other kicker is her friend who is not part of this group does not know anyone in it and they were sharing a room with 2 other girls so my wife ditched her.


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## the guy

Can Any of the ladies on this forum confirm the gyno;s advice? Is it true that a clot would be cause for no sex for two weeks, or is the amount of time an STD test takes to come back?

The best advice is the VAR, they are the best friend for members of the cheater police. SO PLEASE GET TWO!

Also you can sync her cell with your computor and pull out the deleted text.


I strongly suggest you start doing your own investigation and if you can aford it hire a PI. The big thing here is your W knows its a deal breaker, and she will not want to lose the security and stablity you have to offer, she has invested to much in that, but at the same time she is addicted to be young and single and have her boytoys.

She will go to her grave before she tells you anthing you can't prove......get it?


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## Worriedhusband3

Guys do you think I could be worrying myself for no reason? I tend to do that. Part of me wants to let it go and she what shakes out but I think I will go insane.


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## Shaggy

Yeah, the ditching is kinda really bad. It means she was either hooking up, or drunk out of control with a stranger. Neither one is ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

I have a sinking feeling.... could she have had an abortion?


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## Gabriel

My take is that she was hanging out with a guy that night - went to the diner with him, really, really drunk. Then they went back to her hotel lobby, as she said, got obnoxious, almost kicked out, and then she went upstairs and puked.

Just my guess - but I am thinking she didn't have sex with the guy, but she did spend several hours, wasted, with another man. She realizes it looks really bad, and at the same time has to cover her a**. So she covered her a** by reassuring her friends that she didn't have sex, but wanted the string deleted because it would look really bad to an outside observer.

If this is the case, she still was very inappropriate with another man. No married woman should be out drunk with some guy, even just for a meal. That's a date. That's a date with the real possibility of sex. If she wasn't sharing rooms with friends, they might have very well gone up and done the deed. But they had no privacy. 

I realize none of this explains the bleeding. I don't think some guy being a "bigger" than her H is going to cause bleeding. Seems far-fetched. It very well could be a clot. Nonetheless, her behavior was innappropriate and these types of GNOs really should stop - she's shown she doesn't have proper boundaries with men.


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## WhereAmI

A clot where? Like she passed a clot? How big?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Worriedhusband3

She can't have kids anymore due to the hystorectomy. A lot of complications with our last baby during birth. Please remember this appointment was already scheduled and on the books way before she went out.


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## the guy

In my case, my W affair was never discussed with her good friends. Why admit to this shameful behavior. In fact my W SOP was to meet a guy at the GNO then tell her friends I wanted her home, only to meet up with the OM with out any one knowing, even her closest of "real" friends.

Granted she had her "new" friends that i wasn't familur with, that enabled her ONS.

Just stay strong and do your research...quitely, do not ask her or tell her and stop accusing her. She will cool things off and wait awhile before she picks up her addiction again.

BTW it is my experience that GNO+bars+ latenights+ drinking=infidelity. For my fWW this was a constant with out variables, for many years.


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## warlock07

Isn't it too early for abortion, bandit? ? 

WorriedHusband, Yes, there is a chance that this is all innocent but based on the evidence, there is more than enough proof to be suspicious. So you are not suspicious without a reason. If you haven't done it already, please GPS and VAR her car. You need to very cautious and collect as much information as you can for some time. She will slip up sooner or later if she was cheating. 

Did you have sex after the GNO?


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## Worriedhusband3

Gabriel - I did have the same type of thought on that but it does not make it any better. I have always trusted her. She has reassured me I have nothing to worry about when I saw the FB pictures. She knows this week I have been off and I told her that my mind runs wild its just the way I am. I told her I want to trust you so even if you do somthing I might now agree with I would rather her let me know. I gave her a window to tell me and she did not say a word. THis just sucks so bad. I have been working from home all week to try and get more clues but she just seems like business as usual.


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## Gabriel

Halien said:


> That's my point, my friend. You are devastated, and this isn't the first situation where she was flirting. If you get tired of being devastated, you can tell her that her half-truths will be taken to mean that she is cheating, and you will remove yourself from a marriage where trust and mutual respect are not sacred. She can promise to end the flirting, girls night out, etc, and be an honest partner going forward, even if you don't dig in any more to this incident. Your gut already knows what happened anyway.
> 
> If she is willing to dig her heels in over a situation that was so blatantly questionable, and ask for divorce, isn't this telling you what your life will be like in the next 20 years if you do nothing? MC will change nothing if girls night out, with no accountablity, regardless of the suspician, can be set in stone as a right, or flirting with no pushback from her husband without fear of being punished by her attitude.
> 
> She can show you the Dx receipt from her doctor visit, if she is required. It will list procedures done, tests ordered. If she threw it away, she can get another. The "two weeks off" without sex just conveninetly covers the time needed to get results back on STD panels.


Halien, this is a nice post and all. But isn't there an incubation period regarding STDs? I mean, if she had sex Saturday night, tests on Monday wouldn't necessarily reveal anything would they? I know HIV for instance, takes months to show up on tests.


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## Worriedhusband3

Warlock no we did not have sex. She came home that morning with her firends and told me right away about the bleeding. I was very worried that something may be wrong and she was sick. I was glad she had a gyno appt scheduled.


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## Worriedhusband3

"The guy" - How do I sync her cell to my computer to pull out the deleted text. I read this was not possibel.


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## bandit.45

Worriedhusband3 said:


> She can't have kids anymore due to the hystorectomy. A lot of complications with our last baby during birth. Please remember this appointment was already scheduled and on the books way before she went out.


Whew!


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## the guy

After 13 years of my fWW GNO it all starts out innocent, but then it gets more addicting ( the attention from your guys) and the GNO start to happen on a nightly bases. Keep in mind 13 years a go my W just went out once a month with her friends. It starts to snow ball as the addiction gets stronger.

Its started with a kiss but 13 years later and 20 OM it snow balled.

Please heed my warning, her current behavior will increase unless you show her in black and white ( in my case I had color pictures) the reality she is blocking out. 


She is creating a 2nd life style, a secret fantasy the even though it will cost her her marriage the chemicals in her brain that make feel the way she does when OM give attention is stronger then the consequencs she will recieve from you.

Act now (start the investigation) or be like me and wait 13 years, trust me its not worth the freedom you now have while she does her thing and you do yours.


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## COguy

So many red flags dude. Why are you afraid to confront because she'll change her passwords?

If she changes her passwords, it's because she's hiding something and you might as well just assume she's cheating.

By not confronting this kind of deceptive behavior, you already know she lied to you, you're setting yourself up to get manhandled.

Your plan is to stand behind the curtain and snoop instead of come in the open and confront.

If your wife can't be honest with you, then she's not the woman for you. She's being deceptive, sneaking around, putting herself in compromising positions. She may or may not have cheated that night (sounds like SOMETHING happened, at the least dinner out alone and "giggling" with a dude late at night). Regardless, she WILL cheat soon with this kind of attitude.

Stand up for yourself. Right now you're just stalling until you get the bomb dropped on you. Don't tolerate disrespectful behavior. If she's not remorseful about it, then you need to start preparing to end it.


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## Worriedhusband3

There is only one person I know would know the truth and that is the friend she brought who is not part of the group. She is my wifes best friend and I know if I asked her she probably would not tell me and probably go right to my wife and tell her I called. I really have nobody to go to about this. I am so frustrated and scared. I am hoping my wife will feel guilty about what ever it is she did even if it was just talking and tell me. I know that I am going to slip up at MC today and reveal something. I just feel so bad I feel if she did something she cheated on not just me but my kids and everything we built together!


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## the guy

what kind of cell does your wife have?


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## Gabriel

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Gabriel - I did have the same type of thought on that but it does not make it any better. I have always trusted her. She has reassured me I have nothing to worry about when I saw the FB pictures. She knows this week I have been off and I told her that my mind runs wild its just the way I am. I told her I want to trust you so even if you do somthing I might now agree with I would rather her let me know. I gave her a window to tell me and she did not say a word. THis just sucks so bad. I have been working from home all week to try and get more clues but she just seems like business as usual.


Worried - not sure how she isn't noticing your change in behavior. When I get upset or worried like this (and it happened, trust me, I was in your shoes) she instantly questions me and asks me what is wrong. At some point, she is going to know something is up with you.

Here's another possibility. To help you get your answers faster, you can tell a white lie. Do you have a close friend that you can confide in? If so, maybe you can tell your W that this friend saw her with this man at 4am or something - and thus you know she is lying. Tell her it's been eating you alive, that you've been giving her chances to come clean, and now that she hasn't, you have to let this cat out of the bag.

Of course to do this, you'd have to get your story straight with your friend, and reveal what has happened to him. But it could be done if you have a friend willing to say he saw her.

IDK, maybe that backfires, but I can just feel how torn up you are, because I have soooooo been there and I would have done anything to get out of that hell as soon as humanly possible.


Edit: Further to this - you might not even need a real friend. You can say a friend saw them, and if your wife questions it, you can say you promised your friend not to say who it was, because they didn't want to get involved. If you can find out the name of the diner, that might help make it more believable. Or you can just say, "some late night restaurant".


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## TDSC60

Shaggy said:


> She may not be having her period at all, she may be trying to put him off and cover up something down there. Perhaps she's worried she got an std and is waiting for test results.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Standard antibiotic treatment for some STDs is 10 - 14 days. No sex for two weeks - a very strange coincidence to say the least. Can you check the medicine cabinet for new medication? Maybe her purse and her car also.

Is there anyway you can get info on the Dr. visit? Some insurance will list payment by procedure. If she is on your insurance you can call them and request exactly what medical tests were performed. Might give a little more info.

On a more serious note - vaginal bleeding can be an early sign of some very serious diseases. I think you have a right to be concerned and ask for more info about this.


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## the guy

COguy,
Sure the OP can stand up now and make his W choose between her current path of a healthier marriage but he will never find out what really went on, this would all get swept under the rug, only to resurface 2 maybe 5 years from now when they both havent made any effort in changing there marriage.

COnfront with hard evidence that is undeniable and I have a feeling they can work it out, but to rug sweep this its only a matter of time that OP wife get sucked into an EA....no longer ONS, but an affair that may not be breakable.

IMHO, it all fun and games for his W with really no emotional attachment. validat and prove her unhealthy behavior now then she may take the stepps to keep Worried h around.

Again she nows this is a deal breaker she will deny until her grave, and only admit to what worried knows.


----------



## the guy

Her only concern is not having her 2nd life styl found out, it more about covering her track then what Wooried is doing or feeling.


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## Worriedhusband3

She has an iphone in my name. She is also on my insurance. I will look for anitbotics too.


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## bandit.45

Doesn't the iPhone use a program called Cloud for automatic backups? Can you tap into this or use it? I'm not a techie, but alot of the posters here can tell you how to do it.


----------



## COguy

Worriedhusband3 said:


> There is only one person I know would know the truth and that is the friend she brought who is not part of the group. She is my wifes best friend and I know if I asked her she probably would not tell me and probably go right to my wife and tell her I called. I really have nobody to go to about this. I am so frustrated and scared. I am hoping my wife will feel guilty about what ever it is she did even if it was just talking and tell me. I know that I am going to slip up at MC today and reveal something. I just feel so bad I feel if she did something she cheated on not just me but my kids and everything we built together!


First off, a cheating spouse will rarely up and admit there lies because of guilt. Cognitive dissonance generally prevents this. This is a scientific phenomenon where your brain can not hold conflicting idealogies about itself. What that means is that a cheating woman did not cheat on her husband. She was forced into the situation because she was drunk, her life sucks, she should have never gotten married, her husband is "controlling", she feels trapped, she doesn't know what she wants, she got married too young, she needs to feel free, she needs to experience life, etc. etc. By admitting that she screwed up royally for no reason is tantamount to admitting that you are a morally corrupt person. The brain can not both hold that you are of sound judgement and a cheater at the same time, so rationalization has to occur.

This is why women will start getting wishy washy when they start to get into wayward activities. There will be a rationalization for everything until the buck stops. Usually this is done with hard proof or divorce papers (ie I'm leaving you until you want to start telling the truth).

In your case you know that she lied at least once, you have enough info to bluff your way into her admission. Something similar I did with my wife (though admittedly I had some proof of something else).

Basically I told her we're getting a divorce and it's over, she wanted to know why, I told her she lied to me and trust was broken. When she wanted to talk, I told her she had one chance to tell me everything that happened and if she lied at all we were done forever. She doesn't have to know what exactly you know, she was with 20 girls that night and random dudes in a bar, someone could have told you what happened. One of your friends at the bar that night, one of her friends, band member, doctor, etc.

If it turns out nothing happened, then you can play the late night at dinner with a dude card. Which is enough for a normal man to divorce his wife over anyway. If my wife was eating dinner alone at 2:30am with a single guy when she went out with 20 friends, staying overnight, and then giggling at 5:30 in the morning at the same hotel, it would be the same result as her sleeping with another dude.


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## the guy

Good, start here;
1) investigate quitely, gather proof, be strong with what you find and gather it up, it will be hard and you will want to blow up as the evidence gets worse and leads to the painful fact.

2) effectively confront with the over whelming proof you have gather, stay calm and confident, any reaction that she is expecting will validate her behavior in why she is acting this way and why its all your fualt. So gett your self well prepared for an positive confrontation

3) take the time to make any life altering discion.

As short and rough this plan is, my point is make a plan with a mission and work the plan, starta journal and keep posting here. 

Having an educated plan will giving some direction, it won't take the pain away but it will give you the direction in dealing with your wife(for now) unhealthy behavior in the marriage.


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## warlock07

I am not sure how much evidence he will get if it was just a ONS (which is very likely in this case)


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## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> I am not sure how much evidence he will get if it was just a ONS (which is very likely in this case)


Agreed. At this point it becomes a question of honesty and respect, not of proof. 

She has not shown him any transparency or honesty so far. She is deflecting and hiding. 

I like COguy's advice. Maybe WH3 should see a lawyer and start the process.


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## the guy

Alot of great perspective and advice, soak it in and come up with works best for you. The bggest thing is to come up with a plan and work the plan, eat....your not eating and goo see the doctor, he will gve something to help in the anziaty, depression and lack of sleep.

Take care of your self 1st then you will have the strenth in dealing with your marriage, and stay away from the booze.

who knows your wife *might* see some changes in you and think twice about so many GNO that are wrecking her marriage.....I doubt it, like I said its an addiction for her now.


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## COguy

bandit.45 said:


> Doesn't the iPhone use a program called Cloud for automatic backups? Can you tap into this or use it? I'm not a techie, but alot of the posters here can tell you how to do it.


iPhone kind of blows for that (from experience lol). 

Here's what I did. Turn off imessages, now you can view all text messages and phone calls from your carriers website.

There's no program to forward SMS messages, so if she deletes those you are screwed. What I told my wife is if she deletes another text message we are done. The next day she showed me she didn't delete any, I verified the messages with the carrier data of timestamps, and saw she selectively deleted texts.

Another thing I did is autoforward her facebook messages to her email address. Then I went on her email and sent all FB messages to a folder she would never check (you can autoforward to your own email if you want from either FB or her email). That way I can tell if someone messaged her and she deleted it, which she was also doing.

But, this says nothing of emails and other programs ( words with friends, skype, etc.). If someone wants to cheat, there's ways to do so. Anyone can pick up a prepaid phone for $30 and become an untrackable cheater.


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## the guy

If she has a new friend she may be her new confident. Any communication with the new girl friend may lead to some additional evidence. 

I think the gyno thing is a a solid start, along with the time line on the cell.

Then there is always the next GNO, a good time to hire a PI.

I'm hoping that its early enough to were it just a bad behavior that can be nipped before she actually finds someone to replace Worriedhusband. 

I'm thinking its a the single life style that GNO have to offer that is addicting, and when brought to light of day then some changes can be made along with some professional help for the WW in finding out why she needs to be validated by strang men.


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## COguy

My point is, you may never get the skinny on what really happened that night.

But you have enough proof to know something did happen, and she lied to you. People don't lie unless they have something to hide, so if she's hiding, she knows she did something wrong.

I think you have enough to force her into an admission. The good thing is, if you do it calmly and collectively, you will be able to spot when your wife is lying and telling the truth. You have to act like you know everything, and don't say ANYTHING to her, make her do all the talking. The amount of dodging my wife did when I gave her my speech about it being over unless she was honest was the biggest confirmation that it was worst than I thought.


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## Worriedhusband3

She is in the shower now just checked her purse and car and no antibotics. I do have repcept that she gave me for CVS on Monday after her appointment but it does not say what it is for. All I know is she had her gyno had to go get my son they go back for labs later. She has not mentioned to me if they called for results. We have a lot of meds we get from CVS so I can't use this receipt as evidence of any kind. I all I really have right now is the the screen shot of the conversation that I posted earlier. That and my gut feeling. I am nervouse that I will **** this up. What if her friend was with them. That does not seem like the case though.

I don't know her FB password so I cant auto forward any e-mails.

I am getting ready now for our MC session. THis should be fun when we are asked how things are going. I know my wife is going to bring up how I have been questioning her all week since her night out. She has been very offended by it. But she does not know that I know something.


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## the guy

Another avenue in gathering proof is to turn off the texting and have phone only. If thats possible? Then a VAR will come in handy.

Why can't our spouse act as though we are stand next to them when they go out with out us? 

I'm so sorry for you worriedhusband, I went throught this crap 2 years ago, I buried my head in the sand for 13 yrs before I confronted her. Feb '10


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## the guy

COguy I did the same thing and sure as sh!t I to got the same painful results..... 20 OM-realy, my best friend-really..this is some painful crap brothers!

My calmness actually scared her during my confrontation.


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## COguy

Worriedhusband3 said:


> She is in the shower now just checked her purse and car and no antibotics. I do have repcept that she gave me for CVS on Monday after her appointment but it does not say what it is for. All I know is she had her gyno had to go get my son they go back for labs later. She has not mentioned to me if they called for results. We have a lot of meds we get from CVS so I can't use this receipt as evidence of any kind. I all I really have right now is the the screen shot of the conversation that I posted earlier. That and my gut feeling. I am nervouse that I will **** this up. What if her friend was with them. That does not seem like the case though.
> 
> I don't know her FB password so I cant auto forward any e-mails.
> 
> I am getting ready now for our MC session. THis should be fun when we are asked how things are going. I know my wife is going to bring up how I have been questioning her all week since her night out. She has been very offended by it. But she does not know that I know something.


Boundaries 101. Married couples should have eachother's FB passwords.

Sounds like you are learning that lesson the hard way....


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## Gabriel

I still contend that you reveal what you know but lie about how you got the information.

A friend of yours saw your W out past the time she said she was back at her hotel. And it was with a strange guy. And you've been coming at her about it because you wanted her to tell you the truth on her own. And because she hasn't you are laying it all on the line right now, in MC. 

And mention that you are extra troubled because of the sudden bleeding after 4 years of nothing. And since she talked to some guy at the gym before, PLUS all of this other stuff...what the heck more do you need?? tell your MC that anyone armed with this information would be a complete and total wreck.

Waiting for more evidence is great if your goal is to divorce her and use it in court. But if you are just trying to get the truth out and/or have your wife stop lying to you, you have every reason you need (including one white lie).


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## Complexity

If she cheated it was probably a one night stand.


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## the guy

This may be bad advice but I would b*llsh!t my way through just like your wife. Tell her everything is good. You wen through some insecurities but are over them.

My point here is your wife has some behavioral issues that are effecting the dynamic of the marriage. She will not address them until you actually show them to her and the threat of living is valide in your wifes eyes.

Her denial will rewrite history. Until you show her her own wrong she will continue to block her unhealthy behavior.

Her addiction will get her caught, you just need to give her enough rope for now!


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## COguy

Gabriel said:


> I still contend that you reveal what you know but lie about how you got the information.
> 
> A friend of yours saw your W out past the time she said she was back at her hotel. And it was with a strange guy. And you've been coming at her about it because you wanted her to tell you the truth on her own. And because she hasn't you are laying it all on the line right now, in MC.
> 
> And mention that you are extra troubled because of the sudden bleeding after 4 years of nothing. And since she talked to some guy at the gym before, PLUS all of this other stuff...what the heck more do you need?? tell your MC that anyone armed with this information would be a complete and total wreck.
> 
> Waiting for more evidence is great if your goal is to divorce her and use it in court. But if you are just trying to get the truth out and/or have your wife stop lying to you, you have every reason you need (including one white lie).


I think if you approach it like you don't know what happened, she's going to lie.

If you approach it like you do know what happened and you just want her to say it, then you'll hear the truth.

I know from my personal experience, if I would have played my cards right I would have gotten my wife to admit everything while she was still in just an EA. I blew my wad on one piece of info and that's all she admitted to. If I would have kept my mouth shut and just played the "I know what happened, you need to come clean" she would have admitted to a whole bunch of sh*t I wasn't even aware of.

Of course they are going to duck and dodge like crazy when you say that, but you have to be strong and not play the game at all.

For all this guy knows, this may not be the first time. Maybe she's in an affair with someone else he doesn't even know about. Maybe she's sexting other guys, or going on dates. He sees the tip of the iceberg.


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## the guy

Complexity it was a ONS, but there are alot of GNO and in my opinion a larger issue here then a ONS, but a behavior thet will lead to more if not effectively addressed.

That the big trick....and effective confrontation.


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## COguy

the guy said:


> Complexity it was a ONS, but there are alot of GNO and in my opinion a larger issue here then a ONS, but a behavior thet will lead to more if not effectively addressed.
> 
> That the big trick....and effective confrontation.


It was a ONS that he knows about. She's been chatting up dudes at the gym and deleting her texts, also a FB account he can't see and probably a private email account.

My wife was already into some sh*t before there was a ONS. EA, Sexting two guys, kissing a dude at the bar, flirting while she was out with her friends. The ONS was like the grand finale. Who knows what this chick is up to, he has no idea. The less you mention, the more info you'll get.

My intention when I confronted was to get info about the EA she was having, it turned into finding out she slept with someone else, and some of the other stuff I had no idea about.


----------



## Halien

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Halien you comments are valid and I appreceate the straight talk. I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly do you think I should say something.


Worried,

Take my opinions with a grain of salt. In my opinion, far too many guys seem to live their life in a low-level state of fear, trying to obey some set of diplomatic rules on how to keep your wife from cheating, or from getting angry. Some like this end up here after it progresses through failure. I'm not at all suggesting that this describes most cases of infidelity behaviors, because far too many come here when they are already the kind of man or woman who would attract their spouse, if the spouse wasn't just broken in some way. 

So, I'm talking about those relationships where they guy timidly dances around the periphery of a certain set of diplomatic rules that his wife has helped him to build every time she lashes out because he has the audacity to question her flirting or communications with others. About the only thing that is guaranteed in this personality is that your wife senses it. Always senses it. It is not at all attractive to her, either.

Why not live like a man who respects himself, and is worthy of respect from his wife? This has nothing to do with being alpha, or a guy who has no compassion for his wife. In fact, the opposite is true. You feel confident that you SHOULD be enough for her, and that she should never want to scuttle away and start a relationship on Facebook, or a one night stand. If you don't agree with her weekends alone with the girls, or her personal trainer, because she flirts, then you do not tolerate it. Period. If she has a problem with your doubts about what happened, she should really fear instead that you will give her one shot to open up her email records, and doctor visits, to prove her innocence. That should be the only fear that matters in this situation.

So yes, I personally feel that it should be brought up. I feel that the most important discussion you can hold today, in front of a marriage counselor, is in telling her that she has one opportunity in the next few days to show you the changes she will committ to so that these doubts about her fidelity will never be an issue again. She needs to talk about exiting from relationships with other women where there is a secret set of rules that protect her FROM her husband finding out what they do. If she is not willing to committ to a relationship of 100% trust, then she needs to accept that her future will not include you.

I'm saying that you tell her that what you already know just cannot be tolerated in your marriage anymore. She may have indeed avoided spreading her legs, but what you already know is TOO MUCH. You can say that your greatest wish is for a marriage of real trust, and that it would be with her. Tell her that you will assume that she was with another man that night, even if it wasn't actual intercourse. You've observed the flirting. If she commits to changes that build a mutually satisfying marriage, you'll move forward with masculine confidence. Future flirting, though, would mean divorce. No discussion.

In post like this, I feel like it is just wasted words. But I strongly feel that if you proceed in a relationship where you always fear her possible betrayal, she will lose any attraction she might have had to you. She'll go after the guys who show strength that is built on confidence and self respect. 

The problem is that if you wait until the point where she has lost the attraction, and the respect, then suddenly taking a stance might actually push her ahead of schedule on the inevitable end. Instead of slowly building confidence in her ability to flirt, or live that second life of pursuit of others, she could decide to end the marriage. 

When you are in a dynamic that includes actions that indicate that she is pursuing sexual relationships with others, VARs and devices have their place in catching her, I agree. We always make these discussions about the fog, but you still may be at the place where a confident, bold personality could make the VARs and keyloggers a moot point in the future.

If you already know that she has done things that are unacceptable to you, then realize that spying is only a confirmation for you. You have NOTHING to prove to her, and if you turn it into a diplomatic or contractual discussion that is better fit for a courtroom, you've lost the relevance over what is really important in the marriage. The marriage will become a test of her ability to push the boundaries, and hide things from you. 

If you have been a good husband, and strive to meet her needs, then the most important thing you can do is live like that. Expect to be treated like a man who does that. If you really feel that you do not falsely accuse her of improper behaviour, but usually give her the benefit of the doubt, then don't let her shame you for being a man. That is fitness testing. You fail, or accept these types of tests, and her atraction for you plummets. Just my opinion.


----------



## the guy

Alot of great point here, again there is a bigger issue her ( icegerg), I think alittle time and patience, with alot of strength will give wooried a bigger picture of whats hes up against.

My thinking here is if he cools it down she will for sure heat up, alls I'm suggesting is wait for another GNO and I'm sure that will be soon enough.

Getting someone to follow her will show wooried husband that his wife is not acting like a wife.....welll he already knows that, but I just think that there is to much that can be lied away and the smoking gun is out there, and it will be that smoking gun that may scare his WW straight.


----------



## Complexity

the guy said:


> *My thinking here is if he cools it down she will for sure heat up, alls I'm suggesting is wait for another GNO and I'm sure that will be soon enough.*


Agree with this completely


----------



## Gabriel

Halien said:


> Worried,
> 
> Take my opinions with a grain of salt. In my opinion, far too many guys seem to live their life in a low-level state of fear, trying to obey some set of diplomatic rules on how to keep your wife from cheating, or from getting angry. Some like this end up here after it progresses through failure. I'm not at all suggesting that this describes most cases of infidelity behaviors, because far too many come here when they are already the kind of man or woman who would attract their spouse, if the spouse wasn't just broken in some way.
> 
> So, I'm talking about those relationships where they guy timidly dances around the periphery of a certain set of diplomatic rules that his wife has helped him to build every time she lashes out because he has the audacity to question her flirting or communications with others. About the only thing that is guaranteed in this personality is that your wife senses it. Always senses it. It is not at all attractive to her, either.
> 
> Why not live like a man who respects himself, and is worthy of respect from his wife? This has nothing to do with being alpha, or a guy who has no compassion for his wife. In fact, the opposite is true. You feel confident that you SHOULD be enough for her, and that she should never want to scuttle away and start a relationship on Facebook, or a one night stand. If you don't agree with her weekends alone with the girls, or her personal trainer, because she flirts, then you do not tolerate it. Period. If she has a problem with your doubts about what happened, she should really fear instead that you will give her one shot to open up her email records, and doctor visits, to prove her innocence. That should be the only fear that matters in this situation.
> 
> So yes, I personally feel that it should be brought up. I feel that the most important discussion you can hold today, in front of a marriage counselor, is in telling her that she has one opportunity in the next few days to show you the changes she will committ to so that these doubts about her fidelity will never be an issue again. She needs to talk about exiting from relationships with other women where there is a secret set of rules that protect her FROM her husband finding out what they do. If she is not willing to committ to a relationship of 100% trust, then she needs to accept that her future will not include you.
> 
> I'm saying that you tell her that what you already know just cannot be tolerated in your marriage anymore. She may have indeed avoided spreading her legs, but what you already know is TOO MUCH. You can say that your greatest wish is for a marriage of real trust, and that it would be with her. Tell her that you will assume that she was with another man that night, even if it wasn't actual intercourse. You've observed the flirting. If she commits to changes that build a mutually satisfying marriage, you'll move forward with masculine confidence. Future flirting, though, would mean divorce. No discussion.
> 
> In post like this, I feel like it is just wasted words. But I strongly feel that if you proceed in a relationship where you always fear her possible betrayal, she will lose any attraction she might have had to you. She'll go after the guys who show strength that is built on confidence and self respect.
> 
> The problem is that if you wait until the point where she has lost the attraction, and the respect, then suddenly taking a stance might actually push her ahead of schedule on the inevitable end. Instead of slowly building confidence in her ability to flirt, or live that second life of pursuit of others, she could decide to end the marriage.
> 
> When you are in a dynamic that includes actions that indicate that she is pursuing sexual relationships with others, VARs and devices have their place in catching her, I agree. We always make these discussions about the fog, but you still may be at the place where a confident, bold personality could make the VARs and keyloggers a moot point in the future.
> 
> If you already know that she has done things that are unacceptable to you, then realize that spying is only a confirmation for you. You have NOTHING to prove to her, and if you turn it into a diplomatic or contractual discussion that is better fit for a courtroom, you've lost the relevance over what is really important in the marriage. The marriage will become a test of her ability to push the boundaries, and hide things from you.
> 
> If you have been a good husband, and strive to meet her needs, then the most important thing you can do is live like that. Expect to be treated like a man who does that. If you really feel that you do not falsely accuse her of improper behaviour, but usually give her the benefit of the doubt, then don't let her shame you for being a man. That is fitness testing. You fail, or accept these types of tests, and her atraction for you plummets. Just my opinion.



This is excellent stuff. Showing strength is huge, and very difficult in a situation like this. You could take my approach and say specifically that someone you know saw them, or you could take the approach of just telling her you know more than she has told you, without giving a reason. But if you do this, you have to do it confidently, because as others have said, she will deny, deny, deny. Either way will get you to the same spot.

So you could just say, "I will not reveal my sources, but I know for a fact you were out past 2:30am WITH A MAN when you said you came back to the hotel, and that's all Im' going to say. So now it's your turn to talk. And this time, no lies, or we are done."

I actually like this better - because it shows strength and she will freaking panic. Her head will be scrambling for how to respond, scrambling for how the hell you could know that information.


----------



## jnj express

Basically---all of this is about the gap from 2 to 5 a m

Was she with any of her group, or did she ditch all of them, and go on her own??

It does not take 3 hours to eat fries, and puke---even if the puking was bad---it would not go on for 3 hours----how far away could the diner have been

If things are really bad for you---(inside your head)----you could force a confrontation, and demand answers---but if you are wrong----she is never gonna forget---and if you prove right---then your mge is gone, cuz she went outside of it, with another man

You should try somehow, to fill in that 3 hour gap----you have to anyway---cuz if you don't your sub-conscious is gonna keep throwing possibilities, and your mind is gonna drive you crazy----you got a major dilemma here!!


----------



## Almostrecovered

a few questions about the iphone, as it is possible to retrieve deleted texts-

1) does she physically sync her phone into a computer or does she use icloud for updates and backups?
2) if yes to the sync, PC or mac and what OS is it?


----------



## the guy

I love the approach some of the posters have mentioned, it seem provin, I also think she may leave during confronting her. I just have a feeling, knowing that its adeal breaker for Worriedhusband, then she may run, again this all comes from my point of view in deny until you dye.

I may be wrong but I have a sence that this ant her 1st rodeo, and Just like the folk here at TAM she has her support system in hidding her 2nd life.

She seems to be covering her tracks well, she knows not to confide in her true friends, she just seems to know all the tricks. 


I maybe dead wrong and if she has no were to go she may stand her ground and admit to what her only knows ....and for some thats enough to bury this for a few years.

worriedhusband is the only one that has a any chance on what his wife will do. But even then she is no longer the women you married so there is no telling how she will play it out.

At the end of the day is Woorried willing to leave his marriage...until then his wife has his number and until he has the confidence to move on she will only admit to what he has and will string him along. IDK she may want to stick around and admitt everything.

Getting her to admit to a continous unhealthy behavior versus just a one night stand may serve her best.....with or with out Worriedhusband, and if there are kids then that may be the bottom line here.


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## Entropy3000

Worriedhusband3 said:


> JNJ - My wife has been on a health kick for a while just losing some weight etc. She actually gained a bit back latley. This week she has been to the gym 3 times but I don't think its cause for concern. I am not really good friends with any of her friends. We have been in MC for about 3 months and things seemed to be improving. This was triggered by me finding out she was talking to a guy at the gym. I found this out via the same Facebook group. I caught that very early and I really do beleive her that that was nothing.
> 
> Bandit - Do VAR make any noice at all? And yes I am going through hell. I need to know the truth. I gave her open opportunity to tell me but she keeps lying about going back to the room with her friends.
> 
> Entropy - We have been married for 10 years in November and we have 3 kids. The GNO thing is regular but typically just a dinner and then home. An over night only happens maybe 2 times a year. As far as I know there has never been infidelity by either of us.


10 years and 3 kids. Not an uncommon time to have these issues.

So marriage friendly GNOs except for when they blow it all out twice a year. The blowouts are less than marriage friendly IMO, but others disagree. I think they invite trouble ... like you have.

You have some Yellow Flags at the least with her behavior. Any chance she hooked up with a male friend she knew?

People can talk at the GYM. What was special about talking? Elaborate please. Did this spill over into FB, texting and email? Did she talk to him over the phone.

Was he helping her with her program? Always be extra weary about guys who invest time with your wife. The guys that volunteer to train them. Not good. 

When these activities are viewed in agregation I think you have some reason for concern. She around 30? She is seeking validation at the least. 

Start doing soem real investigation.

I would show up at the GYM unannounced next time and view things from afar for a bit.

Not knowing her friends is a concern. Peer pressure can be huge. Toxic friends can pull others under.


----------



## the guy

jns make a good point, I think a PI could be useful in investigating the "seen of the crime" he may be able to interview the waitress, hostest, bell buy, would'd it be great to get any security footage from the hotel. This all sound very costly, but it wouldn't hurt to ask around.

All of this still doesn't solve the need to have constant GNO's though. Or wait maybe it does!


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## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Where do you draw the line on what would be suspicious enough to demand and answer, without feeling like you'll get sent to the corner in punishment?
> 
> Let's see - flirting on a night out of town doen't do it. A friend wanting a secret email so they can talk further doesn't do it. Spending the entire night alone, unaccounted for doesn't do it. Bleeding, which defies her normal state doesn't do it. (Do you REALLY buy this? More likely that she had unprotected sex and doesn't want to give you a STD until she can be checked) So, you can't expect to be treated with respect if you question suspicious behaviors unless you catch her with another man between her thighs?
> 
> Nine people out of ten will say that it appears that she cheated on you. If it happened to me, heck, I'D even think I cheated. When it comes to our marriage, when the rest of us get into a situation where it appears that we had a one night stand, we feel the burden of proving our faithfulness, and would never blame our spouse for doubting us, because it is our stupidity that got us into this.
> 
> One day, you'll wonder why you were never in a marriage where your wife cared enough for you to explain her blatant disregard for your feelings. When you get older, you might even realize that part of being a man includes standing up for what you believe to be right, even if your wife makes you stand in the corner as punishment.
> 
> Personally, I'd bring it up, and if the counselor tried to shut it down, tell them that you do not need their services again. If your wife makes you out to be the bad guy, take it to be what it obviously was. If the friends with her, the ones who saw the flirting behind the pictures, feared that she was with another man at 5:30, then I think that it is okay for her husband to think the same thing, and not feel like he'll be punished by his wife for doing so.


Bravo sir.


----------



## Entropy3000

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Gabriel - She has never bleed with me so who knows maybe this guy was big. Again just me being paranoid if she did something. Its more of the timing thing that worries me. If she was bleeding why was she out until 5:30 AM when she told me it started at 2:30 PM
> 
> *Shaggy - Ironically she had a gyno appt on Monday already scheduled. She told me the DR said no sex for 2 weeks and did labs. She said the Dr. said it was a clot but who knows since I know she lied to me about something already*


Suspiscious. You have no legal right to know what the truth is. 

Let's assume for the moment this is legit. 

Ladies does this sound right?


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> I am so sorry man. Let's hope it's nothing, but there are clearly some bad signs here. The doctor is obligated to keep her medical conditions secret, so there is no way for you to know if she is telling you the truth about the 2 week sex hiatus.
> 
> Is she on your insurance? If so, you can call your carrier and likely get info on the services provided (not results), and the dates of service - this may give you more clues. They will just tell you the name of patient covered, and date of service, and maybe the type of provider (ie gyno, laboratory, etc, etc). Carriers also issue things called Explanation of Benefits. They are somewhat detailed - it would say if she went to a lab for test results, for instance, but wouldn't reveal any results of course. These typically are issued several weeks after the service, however. But maybe by calling, you can get the info sooner. When calling, you can just say you are settling payments with the provider and need patient name/dates of service/amount charged/type of service. This might get you somewhere, it might not.
> 
> Even if she's not on your insurance, find out who her carrier is, and make sure to catch the mail. These statements are mailed to the home - again, weeks later though.
> 
> I would probably make the mistake of confronting her now, because I don't have a lot of tolerance for misery. But that might not be the best move at the moment. What have you asked her, exactly?
> 
> You could confront her with just the information you were able to deduce from what she told you. Or, you could say you ran into one of her friends and thet told a different story, and maybe she should reconsider what she has said. This one is risky though.


At some point one would have had to sign a HIPAA form. Hopefully she did that.


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## snap

Gabriel said:


> I am so sorry man. Let's hope it's nothing, but there are clearly some bad signs here. The doctor is obligated to keep her medical conditions secret, so there is no way for you to know if she is telling you the truth about the 2 week sex hiatus.


Actually, here the doctor have to disclose if it's STD to everyone who can be affected. Disease control.

Of course it's a different matter if she was just ripped a bit in rough sex.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Worried,
> 
> Take my opinions with a grain of salt. In my opinion, far too many guys seem to live their life in a low-level state of fear, trying to obey some set of diplomatic rules on how to keep your wife from cheating, or from getting angry. Some like this end up here after it progresses through failure. I'm not at all suggesting that this describes most cases of infidelity behaviors, because far too many come here when they are already the kind of man or woman who would attract their spouse, if the spouse wasn't just broken in some way.
> 
> So, I'm talking about those relationships where they guy timidly dances around the periphery of a certain set of diplomatic rules that his wife has helped him to build every time she lashes out because he has the audacity to question her flirting or communications with others. About the only thing that is guaranteed in this personality is that your wife senses it. Always senses it. It is not at all attractive to her, either.
> 
> Why not live like a man who respects himself, and is worthy of respect from his wife? This has nothing to do with being alpha, or a guy who has no compassion for his wife. In fact, the opposite is true. You feel confident that you SHOULD be enough for her, and that she should never want to scuttle away and start a relationship on Facebook, or a one night stand. If you don't agree with her weekends alone with the girls, or her personal trainer, because she flirts, then you do not tolerate it. Period. If she has a problem with your doubts about what happened, she should really fear instead that you will give her one shot to open up her email records, and doctor visits, to prove her innocence. That should be the only fear that matters in this situation.
> 
> So yes, I personally feel that it should be brought up. I feel that the most important discussion you can hold today, in front of a marriage counselor, is in telling her that she has one opportunity in the next few days to show you the changes she will committ to so that these doubts about her fidelity will never be an issue again. She needs to talk about exiting from relationships with other women where there is a secret set of rules that protect her FROM her husband finding out what they do. If she is not willing to committ to a relationship of 100% trust, then she needs to accept that her future will not include you.
> 
> I'm saying that you tell her that what you already know just cannot be tolerated in your marriage anymore. She may have indeed avoided spreading her legs, but what you already know is TOO MUCH. You can say that your greatest wish is for a marriage of real trust, and that it would be with her. Tell her that you will assume that she was with another man that night, even if it wasn't actual intercourse. You've observed the flirting. If she commits to changes that build a mutually satisfying marriage, you'll move forward with masculine confidence. Future flirting, though, would mean divorce. No discussion.
> 
> In post like this, I feel like it is just wasted words. But I strongly feel that if you proceed in a relationship where you always fear her possible betrayal, she will lose any attraction she might have had to you. She'll go after the guys who show strength that is built on confidence and self respect.
> 
> The problem is that if you wait until the point where she has lost the attraction, and the respect, then suddenly taking a stance might actually push her ahead of schedule on the inevitable end. Instead of slowly building confidence in her ability to flirt, or live that second life of pursuit of others, she could decide to end the marriage.
> 
> When you are in a dynamic that includes actions that indicate that she is pursuing sexual relationships with others, VARs and devices have their place in catching her, I agree. We always make these discussions about the fog, but you still may be at the place where a confident, bold personality could make the VARs and keyloggers a moot point in the future.
> 
> If you already know that she has done things that are unacceptable to you, then realize that spying is only a confirmation for you. You have NOTHING to prove to her, and if you turn it into a diplomatic or contractual discussion that is better fit for a courtroom, you've lost the relevance over what is really important in the marriage. The marriage will become a test of her ability to push the boundaries, and hide things from you.
> 
> If you have been a good husband, and strive to meet her needs, then the most important thing you can do is live like that. Expect to be treated like a man who does that. If you really feel that you do not falsely accuse her of improper behaviour, but usually give her the benefit of the doubt, then don't let her shame you for being a man. That is fitness testing. You fail, or accept these types of tests, and her atraction for you plummets. Just my opinion.


This one of your best points. Very insightful. It cuts to the chase and is real life as far as I am concerned.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## moxy

Entropy3000 said:


> Let's assume for the moment this is legit.
> 
> Ladies does this sound right?


Bleeding heavily after the absence of a period is not always a sign of sex. It is possible that hormones, lots of dancing, lots of walking, time at the gym, and other physical exertions are related. Hormones can be affected by things like stress, too, and that can have an effect on the cycle. Additionally, you say that she had gained a lot of weight and is now starting to lose it because of exercise; this tends to have an effect on the cycle, too.

However, she is being really strange and shady. Can you find out what kind of prescription the doctor has given her? It will give you some indication of what's happening.


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## COguy

Halien nailed it 100%. He captured every thought I had and put it in one post.

If you listen to only one post on this thread, make it that one. This is exactly what I wish I would have done when she was acting afool.

I don't know why it's ingrained in us "nice guys" that we have to live up to the BS situations our wives put us in. For fear of being called controlling or mean or hateful we allow our wives to do things we know to be inappropriate. Don't wait any longer to establish boundaries, sack up, and do what you know is right.

If your wife can't handle simple boundaries to protect the marriage, she's not married to you anymore.


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## Gabriel

My gut is telling me the bleeding is a completely separate issue from the "I got back at 2:30, but really it was 5:30" issue. She had the appt made well before the GNO trip was planned, he said. She had a hysterectomy for God's sakes - it could be a number of things.

OP, you need to focus on the timeline first - let us know how marriage counseling goes today/tonight and report back. Hopefully, you'll learn a lot one way or another. 

Best of luck.


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## river rat

Worried, IMHO, GNO is one thing; GNO w/ bar-hopping and flirting w/ other guys is another altogether. GNO and staying out all night is way out of bounds. You should take the opportunity to discuss this in MC. Re the no period in 4 yrs, there are hormonal contraceptives that cause this; you didn't mention her method. If she's not on one of them, she should consult her gynecologist. That can lead to problems.


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## keko

Sending your spouse for a night out/sleep over with same sex friends is asking for something to happen.


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## Entropy3000

river rat said:


> Worried, IMHO, GNO is one thing; GNO w/ bar-hopping and flirting w/ other guys is another altogether. GNO and staying out all night is way out of bounds. You should take the opportunity to discuss this in MC. Re the no period in 4 yrs, there are hormonal contraceptives that cause this; you didn't mention her method. If she's not on one of them, she should consult her gynecologist. That can lead to problems.


She may be on HRT as she has had a hystorectomy.


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## Worriedhusband3

Ok update time. We went to our MC appointment and I confronted her. I told her I would like her to tell me what I already know and I have tried to get her to tell me all week. Finally she told me that yes indeed she was out until 5:30 am and he story checked out to what I knew without her telling me. She told me though she was not alone but her friend who she brought from the outside was with her and that friend did like and hook up with one of the two guys with them. She told me she felt really strange about the whole thing and she felt like she was lying to me all week and it was eating at her. She was in tears in the MC office because she knew I must have been going through hell. I confronted her about the bleeding and she told me that was all true and she did not even notice until she got back to the room. She said her other friends were concerned and pissed off about her friend and my wife has since apologized about what happened. She told me she was did not tell me to protect her friend but now knows she was wrong and is actually pissed her friend out her in this situation because she did not want to abandon her. She has shown be texts that do prove what happened private texts between her and her friend. This has been a very emotional day. I have not seen my wife that upset in a very long time. The marriage councilor was very supportive of the way we both handled it. I feel relieved and she said she does too. I hope people don't think I am now being naive but I truly do believe her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Time for you and your wife to sit down and lay out very specific boundaries. Written boundaries.... written on a piece of paper and copied so both of you can keep one and commit the list to memory. 

How can the two of you work in unison and stay on the same page when you do not have specific rules that you have both agreed to follow?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Worriedhusband3

Thank you all for your help today. Espessally Halien!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Worriedhusband3

Bandit we are doing exactly that per advice of the MC too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Thank you all for your help today. Espessally Halien!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Worried,

I am so happy for your news!!! Take your time in deciding how to best use this time to further grow the marriage into a relationship defined by trust. Your strength in dealing with this day was awesome!


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## keko

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Ok update time. We went to our MC appointment and I confronted her. I told her I would like her to tell me what I already know and I have tried to get her to tell me all week. Finally she told me that yes indeed she was out until 5:30 am and he story checked out to what I knew without her telling me. *She told me though she was not alone but her friend who she brought from the outside was with her and that friend did like and hook up with one of the two guys with them*. She told me she felt really strange about the whole thing and she felt like she was lying to me all week and it was eating at her. She was in tears in the MC office because she knew I must have been going through hell. I confronted her about the bleeding and she told me that was all true and she did not even notice until she got back to the room. She said her other friends were concerned and pissed off about her friend and my wife has since apologized about what happened. She told me she was did not tell me to protect her friend but now knows she was wrong and is actually pissed her friend out her in this situation because she did not want to abandon her. She has shown be texts that do prove what happened private texts between her and her friend. This has been a very emotional day. I have not seen my wife that upset in a very long time. The marriage councilor was very supportive of the way we both handled it. I feel relieved and she said she does too. I hope people don't think I am now being naive but I truly do believe her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Isn't this another red flag? WHat did your W do with the other man after her friend hooked up?


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## Shaggy

So is your wife ditching the friend who basically lef her with a guy who no doubt hoped to hook up with your wife?

It came close and may still cost her a marriage. 

Did you ask if your wife kissed or other wise touched him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chaos

That 'friend' took your wife close to the edge. If your drunken wife had been sufficiently attracted and aroused by the other man, the odds would have been good of her ending up sleeping with him (read thread *Is it better no to tell? Feeling conflicted*. No more going out with that 'friend' would seem to be in order.


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## Entropy3000

Perhaps a detail for later but this BFF is married?

I only ask because she is obviously toxic, but if she is married she is even a wrose influence.

So she was with a guy afterall. Right now her friend hoohed up and not her. Hopefully this is not trickel truth.

That said. Well done sir. Getting this out and when was a good idea.

I hope she is done with these types of GNOs. Good luck.


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## Beowulf

Worriedhusband3,

It sounds like you have what you were looking for. I would hope at the very least that you put your foot down and demand that her nights out without you end right the hell now. Next time she and you may not be so fortunate.


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## COguy

Beowulf said:


> Worriedhusband3,
> 
> It sounds like you have what you were looking for. I would hope at the very least that you put your foot down and demand that her nights out without you end right the hell now. Next time she and you may not be so fortunate.


Yes, please learn from this experience and do not chump out. You do not want to be in this position again.


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## bandit.45

And insist your wife ditch this toxic girlfriend. This was a close call and your wife knows it. I hope your wife did not facilitate her friend's adultery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Still, find out from your insurance statements what procedures were done. What it amounts to is that she got picked up but didn't have sex............maybe. BTW crying means absolutely nothing. Even if its real guilt, it doesn't mean anything she said is the truth.


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## Gabriel

I am cautiously happy for you, OP. When you do write down these boundaries, you have to be very firm with her. Anything you don't like, air that out now and put it on the forbidden list. This type of incident is one the deserves a serious change in her behavior, like, no more GNO overnights. Ever.

I concur with the others that you should ask your W what she was doing while the friend was "sort of hooking up".

You've done well, but there is more work to do.


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## warlock07

Did the messages between the friend and your wife conclusively prove that nothing happened or are you looking through denial glasses?


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## jnj express

Your wife has pretty low morals in re: mge., if she allowed her friend to hook-up----or are you gonna tell me her friend is single

I believe your wife was the one who dragged her friend into this in the 1st place, and it was your wife, and her friend who split and left the group

Was your wife being used from the very beginning, or are you getting an academy award performance being thrown your way

Either way----you had better be very specific about boundaries---and the need to include, no more GNO, over night, no more GNO at any place that remotely resembles a meat market, and no more alcohol on your wife's part at these GNO's, that you do allow her to go to

It wouldn't hurt to throw in a Post--Nup---cuz your wife doesn't have much in the way of marital boundaries/morals---due to her condoning her GF, cheating on her spouse/partner

You all can write about how evil her GF, was---but OP, helped her, quite possibly via, planning, accompanying, and condoning the whole situation

Just where does your wife stand in re: the institution of mge.??


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## TBT

I don't feel you're naive,but I hope in your relief that you don't overlook the entire situation because it appears as your wife looking out for her friend.The fact that they were with 2 guys would beg me to at least ask the questions how and why they were with these guys in the first place.I think at the very least your wife should be working on her common sense and look before she leaps.Good luck in the future.


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## snap

Yes. In this situation (two chicks picked by two guys) the other guy must have at least tried to get laid with your wife.

Ask her what exactly happened, and if she says they were just talking (wine-tasting, playing checkers, watching tv, etc) while their friends banged in the other room, you know she hides a lot then.


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## Will_Kane

I know you are overjoyed that your wife did not have sex with someone else. Apparently, it doesn't take much to make you happy.

Take a look at your marriage and your expectations. Fix them.

Some things are bad for a marriage. Maintaining friendships with ex boyfriends/girlfriends. Looking up old high school crushes on Facebook. *Girls nights out that include alchohol in places where men typically go to pick up women*. I suggest either you are invited on girls night outs of this type or your wife refrain from going.

About some of the other things going on that you may overlook because you are so relieved your wife didn't have sex with someone else: 

Flirty pictures of her in the bar, proudly posted on Facebook. NOT OK.

Staying out all night with a guy while her friend hooked up with his friend. NOT OK.

Your post where you state, if she was only talking to a guy all night that would be alright. NOT OK.

LYING TO YOU ABOUT IT TO PROTECT HER FRIEND??? NOT OK!!! Also, I think the lying to you was to protect her desire to go on future girls night outs, not to protect her friend. If you know she will be out all night til past 5:30am talking to guys, you might tell her you don't want to go on them anymore. And she really likes to flirt it up and post those pictures on Facebook, she doesn't need you throwing any monkey wrenches into that.

Your marriage counseling started because of your lack of trust when you found out from Facebook, rather than from your wife, that she was talking to some guy at the gym, which you describe in the same post as "turning out to be nothing" and you having "nipped it in the bud." Which was it - nothing, or something that you just luckily found out about on Facebook and nipped in the bud?


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## bandit.45

I have the sick, sinking feeling that we are going to hear back from this OP in a few weeks. My gut tells me she's shining him on. I think something happened between her and the guy she was with. She's trickle-truthing him. 

EDIT: As part of their agreement, there needs to be a caveat that if he ever hears about her being alone with another man in any similar situation again, or if he catches her in another lie about her whereabouts or who she is with , then it is game over. Her lying and sneaking around is the worst part. He needs to make her understand this is the LAST time she ever gets away with pulling this kind of stunt again. This is her mulligan.


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## jnj express

I know what you told us, as to what went on at MC---and your wife's admissions----but what I am reading is way to short, in re: what your wife actually did

Your wife condoned, and helped another woman cheat on her H/BF----do you think with morals like that , that she is not gonna at some point do the same to you

What does your wife say as to her aiding in the destruction of someone else's mge.

She allegedly was full of guilt for making you a nut case over all of this----but she doesn't have the decency, or the morals to stop her friend, and if she couldn't stop her---at least not be part of the whole crappy situation, where she stayed with her OM, for 3 hours talking, while her friend destroyed her mge., if she actually only talked---3 hours is a long time, to be with a guy and do nothing!!!!!!

So the french fries, and puking, were all just lies----you are not out of the woods, in any way shape or form----you have a wife who condones, and aids cheating, spends time in the middle of the night with strange men, who picked them up, she flirts at bars, and goes on overnights to meatmarkets-------Not a great mge. at this point.


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## Shaggy

I think bandit is right here. 

If her friend was hooking up with the one guy, why would the second guy hang around until 5:30 if he wasn't getting anything? Clearly these two guys went out that night looking to hookup.

Here's what I think really happened:

GF and wife spent a good part of the night drinking and meeting guys. GF met one she liked and he and his buddy spent the later part of the evening talking up wife and gf. The regular group of moms got tired and headed out, but your wife and gf stayed behind and spent more time with the pair of guys - being friendly. The place closed and the gf and wife and the two guys headed out to find a new place to go to. .....

Where did the gf and guy hookup an do it? Where was your wife and the other guy during this? I doubt he was in the mood for talking after dropping a bunch of $$ buying your wife drinks in the later part of the evening.


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## bandit.45

Yep. Any person with a d!ck and balls would question her story. 

OP needs to stay on the offensive and get it all out of her.


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## Entropy3000

I tried to myself in the OP shoes. I would be livid. 

Frist off, going on the GNO, drinking heavily and being out all night near these men is way past inappropriate.
I actually see putting herself in the situation purposely as unfaithful. Now that is just me and my marriage. But let's just say this is inappropriate. Also consider that this has been going on twice a year for some time. This group are pros at this. Not all I am sure. But there is always a small group at the least that feels entitled. Continually going back to the well emboldens them. They have to go further to get that wild thrill. 

Now she admits to being picked up by guys. You know that she was off the grid at 5:30. There is a missing chunk of time. They are in a hotel with these guys. Your wife says the other woman hooked up but she did not. Right. Let's now check unfaithful at the least.

Your wife was in counseling and you hit her with this question. I think it is most likely you are getting trickle truth. She did not think it through. I hope you are not. She says her friend hooked up but she did not. Well maybe hooking up means intercourse. There is a possibility what she did was kiss, makeout and maybe more with this guy short of penetration. Now to me that is cheating. If she did not touch or get touched by this guy then maybe she was just unfaithful. 

So I would be left with knowing my wife is unfaithful and very possibly cheated on me.

If her friend is married I would probably let her husband know. Not out of spite but it is the right thing to do. It depends on the situation. For sure my wife would have to go NC with this woman. I would examine who is in the group period. Marriage friendly GNOs are fine but your wife proved she is unfaithful in the other type.

You know wives going somewhere to listen to a band is one thing, but this is very much for these ladies anyways also about being with the boys if not just an excuse to get drunk and being banged. Good times for all. You do know guys seek these type of women out and it is about getting if at all possible for them. They may end up settling for just hanging out with the ladies but the goal is not to just hang out and talk and eat french fries. I am sure there was frenching going on. Bank on that.


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## keko

I hope I'm wrong but I don't buy it, while her friend was hooking up she just had french fries with the OM??.... 

Find out from your insurance what she is being treated for, medicines, etc.


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## Gabriel

I think we need to be careful bout the assumptions we are making though. "hooked up" doesn't necessarily mean sex. They could have been just dancing, drinking, etc, and then let's say the other girl started making out with this dude, and then they were all touchy feely, etc, while continuing to be out at the bars, etc. I could see someone describing that as "hooking up". But maybe I'm out of touch. This would clearly put OP's wife in a "weird" position, as she described. Can't tell from what was written if these other two actually left OP's wife and the other guy alone - they could have been "hooking up" so to speak, while they were cavorting around.

Still, OP, you need more details to fill in some blanks here.


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## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> I think we need to be careful bout the assumptions we are making though. "hooked up" doesn't necessarily mean sex. They could have been just dancing, drinking, etc, and then let's say the other girl started making out with this dude, and then they were all touchy feely, etc, while continuing to be out at the bars, etc. I could see someone describing that as "hooking up". But maybe I'm out of touch. This would clearly put OP's wife in a "weird" position, as she described. Can't tell from what was written if these other two actually left OP's wife and the other guy alone - they could have been "hooking up" so to speak, while they were cavorting around.
> 
> Still, OP, you need more details to fill in some blanks here.


Agreed. In fact you are making the point better than I was. What exactly is hooking up? Because I actually see that the women hooked up with the guys. It does though sound like she went to to room with the guy. BUT you are right. The OP now needs real details with definitions of what some of this slang means.

From the urban dictionary :



> Hooking up has come to define sexual relationships for most of today's teens and young women. It can mean anything from kissing and touching to oral sex or intercourse. Vagueness is its hallmark. "A girl can say, 'I hooked up with so-and-so,' and no one knows what she did. It protects you and makes you a player at the same time


So the take away is it could be anything but many see it as intentionally vague. It does sound like it is cheating as used here. But I know people who just mean it to be meeting up. In the context of the wife's explanation though she was distancing herself from what her friend did and what she did. She definitely hooked up with the guy in the sense she was with him while being drunk until at least 5:30. So if hanging out with the guy is not hooking up by her definition anything above that could be.

We will see what he finds out.


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## jnj express

Hey Gabriel and Entropy----what would YOU say to YOUR wife who was with a strange man DOING ANYTHING from 2 to 5 a m----or as per your last posts---you are allowing it, cuz it isn't hooking up-------so in other words---its OK for your wives to be chasing around from 2 to 5 a m----when actually no one F'ing knows what the were REALLY doing---is that kind of activity OK for the both of you??????


----------



## Entropy3000

jnj express said:


> Hey Gabriel and Entropy----what would YOU say to YOUR wife who was with a strange man DOING ANYTHING from 2 to 5 a m----or as per your last posts---you are allowing it, cuz it isn't hooking up-------so in other words---its OK for your wives to be chasing around from 2 to 5 a m----when actually no one F'ing knows what the were REALLY doing---is that kind of activity OK for the both of you??????


No this is not OK. Not for a married woman.

I would view this as if my wife spent the night at a man's place. I don't want to hear about french fries. The women got picked up by guys who were their for one purpose. I would have called BS on her story. It would not have been pretty. I probably would be driven to find out the details but they may not matter.

My wife has gone to a few conventions in her time. Do I think anything bad happened? No. But do I know? No. It would be out of character for her. She is not a drinker. I think I am less naive than I used to be and probably would show more interest in the details. My wife tells me that in general the women were up for anything and pretty much considered themselves single while on trips. She told me this a few minutes ago. That croud was big into drinking. I knwo they always tried to get her to go to the male strip clubs with them.

FWIW, I have gone with her few times and have always been invited. Never got any vibe that she was part of any shinanigans.


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## river rat

Guys, I missed the post re her hysterectomy. In this case the bleeding does suggest some sort of trauma. Not a good sign.


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## the guy

rr,

She already told OP the gyno said it was just a glot, if it was really not that good I'm sure she would have made a bigger issue of it.


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## Beowulf

the guy said:


> rr,
> 
> She already told OP the gyno said it was just a glot, if it was really not that good I'm sure she would have made a bigger issue of it.


But he only has his wife's word as to what the gyno said right?


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## bandit.45

Her whole story stinks to high heaven.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

jnj express said:


> Hey Gabriel and Entropy----what would YOU say to YOUR wife who was with a strange man DOING ANYTHING from 2 to 5 a m----or as per your last posts---you are allowing it, cuz it isn't hooking up-------so in other words---its OK for your wives to be chasing around from 2 to 5 a m----when actually no one F'ing knows what the were REALLY doing---is that kind of activity OK for the both of you??????


I'm not making excuses - just pointing out that posters are jumping to conclusions about the W's friend. What the W did was totally inappropriate. Several were asking what the W was doing while the friend was "hooking up". My point was to say that "hooking up" could have been happening right in front of her and thus she may not have been alone with some dude. 

That all said, the OP needs a LOT more explanation.


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## jnj express

The OP---has major problems, whether he likes it or not-----he has a wife who aids/condones cheating by her girlfriend---thus she is herself somewhat responsible for the possible wreckage of her GF mge., and if there are kids involved all the worse

AND---she has absolutely no problem with staying out with another man, a probable stranger, who could be any kind of pervert, crazy, druggie, criminal, rapist, or who knows, and she is with him from 2 to 5 A M, and then covers it up to her H.

He does not need anything else to confront!!!!!

What difference whether she bled, her being out with a man for 3 hours in the middle of the night, even while aiding her GF to wreck her mge., is all you need to raise a major confrontation

His wife has few if any boundaries---I don't know about the other 20 women in the group, but OP's wife, and her GF---were cheating-----there is no other way to look at it

You may argue his wife wasn't cheating per se---If so, then you tell me what kind of married woman watches/condones/aids, another married woman to wreck her mge.


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## Thor

Worriedhusband3 said:


> Bandit - Do VAR make any noice at all?


No it should not. They are completely solid state with no moving parts or tape cassettes. But if you want to be very sure, you can disable the speaker. You can plug in an earphone which should kill the internal speaker. Then just cut off the wire at the plug. It will not hurt the electronics to do this. Or you an open it up and cut the wire to the speaker if it is accessible.


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## keko

OP, any updates?


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## Posse

Nothing prevents the OP from demanding that the wife give consent for him to see her medical records from the Gynecologist. 

Medical privacy is waived all the time. It happens in lawsuits frequently. My wife has access to my medical information and I have access to hers. This has been in place for a long time. 

If the OP really wants to know, he just needs to ask the wife to sign a consent form. If she doesn't want to sign a consent form, that would be a HUGE red flag for me.


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