# Wifes unsure what her decision is



## travislandes63

Good morning yall, so to not write this out till the cows come home. My wife and I have been together going on 11 years, married for 8. We have 3 children together, bought a house a year ago, decent cars. Overall I've tried to provide everything for her, I've never once tried controlling the aspects of her life as far as appearance, or what interests her. Some say she's high maintenance, but to me if it made her happy then that's all that mattered. Here come last March she began school for cosmetology which has always been a dream, I pushed her to do so because it meant a lot and her previous jobs always made her hate working there. I've been working long hours to support us through this time. About a month ago she dropped the she's unsure about us, might want a divorce, she's unhappy, often thinks about if there's something else out there. We are both 28, we had our oldest at 19. I stepped up and continued to provide for our family and climbed the rigorous ladder to get to a place of financial stability. I'm no Saint and have done things in the past that have hurt her, but have always apologized and asked for forgiveness. This same situation happened three years ago, which she returned a month later and said it was stupid. This time however she wants even longer. She tells me she won't have a decision till she's out of school in January and has a job. I want to make this work, have offered to do anything by any means to make this work. But she just isn't sure. I try talking to her, and it's pointless almost, just running around the same bush. She states her actions should show that she's not out of the house, still communicates. But gives me no emotional indication that she wants to work. Some say I'm just getting strung along before a bomb drops in January, to get my things in order and be prepared for the worst. I love this woman whole heartedly. She means a great deal to me, but she's talking to other guys, found she has a dating app, hides her phone, has changed passwords. Where she has always had open access to everything of mine. I have my own issues to work on I get that, she says she's finding herself and what makes her happy, she's not focused on anyone or anything but that. But I'm torn internally I wanna wait and be patient to show her I'm here, I always have been. But another part of me doesn't want to wait, put effort into making things right with myself and her. If ultimately she's decided to leave regardless of what I can do to change things. She talks in what ifs and scenarios, the kids have noticed, they come to me scared and anxious of what may happen. I'm just kinda lost. I've reached out to numerous therapist's in the area, all are booked, or changing location currently. Can someone offer real guidance. Family and friends have all gave their input, most of which is all bad. 
Thank you


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## Mr.Married

The real guide is exactly what you don’t want to hear and will refuse to believe no matter how many people here tell it to you. The situation is already extremely obvious on what actions are required. You can wait around and be plan B until she finds Plan A which she is actively looking for.


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## Captain Obvious

What's it going to take for you to come to terms with reality, a 2x4 across your face? You're the safety net until she finds something better, and she's going to keep sampling the market until she does.


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## bobert

travislandes63 said:


> Good morning yall, so to not write this out till the cows come home. My wife and I have been together going on 11 years, married for 8. We have 3 children together, bought a house a year ago, decent cars. Overall I've tried to provide everything for her, I've never once tried controlling the aspects of her life as far as appearance, or what interests her. Some say she's high maintenance, but to me if it made her happy then that's all that mattered. Here come last March she began school for cosmetology which has always been a dream, I pushed her to do so because it meant a lot and her previous jobs always made her hate working there. I've been working long hours to support us through this time. About a month ago she dropped the she's unsure about us, might want a divorce, she's unhappy, often thinks about if there's something else out there. We are both 28, we had our oldest at 19. I stepped up and continued to provide for our family and climbed the rigorous ladder to get to a place of financial stability. I'm no Saint and have done things in the past that have hurt her, but have always apologized and asked for forgiveness. This same situation happened three years ago, which she returned a month later and said it was stupid. This time however she wants even longer. She tells me she won't have a decision till she's out of school in January and has a job. I want to make this work, have offered to do anything by any means to make this work. But she just isn't sure. I try talking to her, and it's pointless almost, just running around the same bush. She states her actions should show that she's not out of the house, still communicates. But gives me no emotional indication that she wants to work. Some say I'm just getting strung along before a bomb drops in January, to get my things in order and be prepared for the worst. I love this woman whole heartedly. She means a great deal to me, but she's talking to other guys, found she has a dating app, hides her phone, has changed passwords. Where she has always had open access to everything of mine. I have my own issues to work on I get that, she says she's finding herself and what makes her happy, she's not focused on anyone or anything but that. But I'm torn internally I wanna wait and be patient to show her I'm here, I always have been. But another part of me doesn't want to wait, put effort into making things right with myself and her. If ultimately she's decided to leave regardless of what I can do to change things. She talks in what ifs and scenarios, the kids have noticed, they come to me scared and anxious of what may happen. I'm just kinda lost. I've reached out to numerous therapist's in the area, all are booked, or changing location currently. Can someone offer real guidance. Family and friends have all gave their input, most of which is all bad.
> Thank you


You are her plan B, just like you were 3 years ago. She is trying out other guys and if one of them is better and wants to take on an instant family, she will be gone. If no one wants more than a warm place to stick their ****, she will come back to you. How lovely. 

You should not be willing to sit back and accept that. It certainly doesn't look good to her, quite the opposite really.


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## 342693

Agree with the others…she’s stringing you along and will jump ship eventually.


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## Asterix

Well, if it's not an enthusiastic YES! then it's a NO! 

You don't need a resounding "no" from her. The fact that there's a doubt in her mind speaks volumes.


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## travislandes63

So what's the plan, I want to fight for her. I really do care, and love this woman. But yes I have seen the warning signs. I had ultimately thought of sitting her down and explaining that if she can't give me a definitive answer to whether she wants to work it our or not that I'm done, regardless the hurt and pain i would have doing so. My kids have noticed the changed and are ultimately scared for whats to come, but i feel shes essentially put my love on hold. She says shes not interested in other people and is in no rush for anything, but i cant help but think even though ive always trusted her prior. I've already got a lawyer in the works as a plan B.


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## Andy1001

Stop paying for her college course and for anything other than necessities. Let her experience working for a living.


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## travislandes63

Andy1001 said:


> Stop paying for her college course and for anything other than necessities. Let her experience working for a living.


She got student loans to pay for it, the only thing Im doing currently is paying for her gas to go to and from. Her school is an hour away, and I'm doing everything else.


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## Lostinthought61

Stop fighting for someone who wants to leave and cheat...were you not born with a spine, i am sorry brother but it's time to wake up and smell the coffee, stop allowing her to control the narrative, I would tell her to her face she can leave now and start her life for January and tell her you will never take her back….


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## DownByTheRiver

travislandes63 said:


> So what's the plan, I want to fight for her. I really do care, and love this woman. But yes I have seen the warning signs. I had ultimately thought of sitting her down and explaining that if she can't give me a definitive answer to whether she wants to work it our or not that I'm done, regardless the hurt and pain i would have doing so. My kids have noticed the changed and are ultimately scared for whats to come, but i feel shes essentially put my love on hold. She says shes not interested in other people and is in no rush for anything, but i cant help but think even though ive always trusted her prior. I've already got a lawyer in the works as a plan B.


Fighting for a woman is something you see on fictional TV shows and movies. Most of them are done once they even broach the subject of leaving. What you would call fighting for a woman is only making you look more weak in her eyes. 

Maybe you give it another month or two and let her know that, but tell her that you are not living in limbo or prepared to go forward living in doubt.


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## Beach123

You love her with your whole heart? And she decides maybe she wants a divorce every few years?
Divorce her - don’t ever look back!
Never ever beg someone to love you the way you deserve to be loved!
She can figure things out on her own! Do NOT try and make life easy on her - she’s ungrateful!


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## Beach123

She doesn’t want to say it’s over because she knows the money stops when she says it!
You want to be her meal ticket while she acts checked out and makes your kids scared? NO. Just NO!


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## sideways

Listen I know you don't want to hear this. I know you love her, but her actions show you quite clearly that she does NOT love you.

She's your wife for crying out loud and you should NOT have to beg her to love you. 

She wants to go then tell her to grab her things and get the hell out. NO COMING BACK!! 

She's also a HORRIBLE mother!!

What kind of woman does this to her kids????

She has a track record of leaving. You let her come back you're ALWAYS going to be wondering when she's going to pull this bull$h!t again.

She wants to go......LET HER GO!!

Meet with an attorney, and file the papers, and have her served and move on with your life.

STOP being a little puppy dog looking out the window desperately waiting for her to come back.

You know what to do you're just letting FEAR keep you from taking action!!

Everything starts with a decision. Choose wisely.


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## *Deidre*

I think what has kept her there for as long as she has been, are the kids. That may be painful to hear, but you sound like an option to her, not a commitment. That said, people change so much from teens into our 20's and she may have outgrown the relationship. Unfortunately, that sucks for everyone else involved, but that seems to be what's happening, and now she's tasting freedom with getting a job on her own.

I think you need to let go, and seek legal advice. Begging and ''fighting'' for her...she's not interested. If someone is interested in staying committed to you, you won't have to fight and beg for them. She's not that same person you first got together with anymore; we can see a different picture, where you see it from the history you have with her. It's not uncommon for people who get married or start having kids in their late teens, to change...and outgrow these relationships. There are couples who last a lifetime in marriage who get married or have been together since their teens, but they're usually outliers.

I'm not saying she doesn't love you at all, but she's interested now in focusing on herself, doing things that she missed out on in her teens. So, start looking after yourself and where your future is headed, and take each day at a time.

I wouldn't ''sit her down,'' and make an ultimatum, just start doing the work to seek legal advice, etc. Just my opinion, and I'm sorry you're in this situation. 💙


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## Tdbo

travislandes63 said:


> So what's the plan, I want to fight for her. I really do care, and love this woman. But yes I have seen the warning signs. I had ultimately thought of sitting her down and explaining that if she can't give me a definitive answer to whether she wants to work it our or not that I'm done, regardless the hurt and pain i would have doing so. My kids have noticed the changed and are ultimately scared for whats to come, but i feel shes essentially put my love on hold. She says shes not interested in other people and is in no rush for anything, but i cant help but think even though ive always trusted her prior. I've already got a lawyer in the works as a plan B.


Your best play at this time is to lawyer up and file.
Have her served in the most cold and unfeeling way possible.
Study up on and implement the 180.
Shock and awe is your best friend right now.
If you take her legs out from under her, you might harsh her buzz.
Doing that might return her to reality.
At that point, you will know what you have.
The 180 will give you clarity. At that point, you can ascertain whether or not there is anything worth saving.
You need to start building your best life with out her. New clothes, haircut, buff up, etc.
If she feels anything for you, she may do the work to catch up.
Take the upper hand. Work her instead of her working you.
Make sure that if you take her back, that it is in your best interests to do so and only after she has done the work required to become a safe spouse ON YOUR TERMS.


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## BeyondRepair007

travislandes63 said:


> So what's the plan, I want to fight for her. I really do care, and love this woman. But yes I have seen the warning signs. I had ultimately thought of sitting her down and explaining that if she can't give me a definitive answer to whether she wants to work it our or not that I'm done, regardless the hurt and pain i would have doing so. My kids have noticed the changed and are ultimately scared for whats to come, but i feel shes essentially put my love on hold. She says shes not interested in other people and is in no rush for anything, but i cant help but think even though ive always trusted her prior. I've already got a lawyer in the works as a plan B.


I think you're seeing the theme in the responses. Getting her to "pick you" never works.
You look weak and she won't respect you begging for her.

She's a crap person but if you really want her back, the only chance is to take a strong stand and file for divorce immediately. Take control of the situation. And remain strong in this path until you _know_ without a shadow of a doubt that she is reformed. Which, by the way, almost _never_ actually comes because cheaters don't want that.

If you do anything else except what these good TAM people are saying, it will fail.


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## travislandes63

Thank you everyone, maybe it is just the cold hard truth, her sister continues to tell me that she has no real plan or agenda I suppose. I didn't want it to be an ultimatum, but I just wanted to hear from her if there is even a sliver that she wants it to work. She's expressed that she knows how big of a deal this is, but I also don't think she's being rational. We've had a great 10 years, true we don't like all the same things but that's what makes it work is us being different. We do share a lot of communities that's why part of me wanted to work on it, strengthen it. But if that makes me the weak link, I will not sit idly by with an idea that it's something she doesn't want or will reciprocate to me.


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## *Deidre*

You deserve more than a “sliver.”

My guess is your wife wants to pursue life without you but you have made her life very easy, financially. So, she may give you a sliver of hope because she doesn’t want to lose the things you do for her. Just be careful.


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## travislandes63

travislandes63 said:


> Thank you everyone, maybe it is just the cold hard truth, her sister continues to tell me that she has no real plan or agenda I suppose. I didn't want it to be an ultimatum, but I just wanted to hear from her if there is even a sliver that she wants it to work. She's expressed that she knows how big of a deal this is, but I also don't think she's being rational. We've had a great 10 years, true we don't like all the same things but that's what makes it work is us being different. We do share a lot of communities that's why part of me wanted to work on it, strengthen it. But if that makes me the weak link, I will not sit idly by with an idea that it's something she doesn't want or will reciprocate to me.


Commonalities*


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## DudeInProgress

*Deidre* said:


> You deserve more than a “sliver.”
> 
> My guess is your wife wants to pursue life without you but you have made her life very easy, financially. So, she may give you a sliver of hope because she doesn’t want to lose the things you do for her. Just be careful.


You get what do you tolerate, at which point you deserve what you get. 
So at this point, based on OP‘s passive, weak behavior, he doesn’t deserve more than a sliver. 
I hope he chooses to change that.


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## *Deidre*

DudeInProgress said:


> You get what do you tolerate, at which point you deserve what you get.
> So at this point, based on OP‘s passive, weak behavior, he doesn’t deserve more than a sliver.
> I hope he chooses to change that.


Me, too.


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## So far so good

Never try to "save your relationship" when your partner is not into you anymore, be it a wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend or whatnot.

Imagine dating a girl you don’t like too much, you want to break up but she keeps begging and crying for you to stay. Sounds attractive? No? Can you imagine how _unbalanced_ that relationship would be?

Do what is best for you. Give her what she wants(divorce), grief for a while, don’t take her back (for your own sake) and eventually, you will have another 10 years of happiness with someone who wants to be with you.


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## Sfort

What will your reaction be if you learn that she's been having one or more affairs?


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## travislandes63

Well I told her that I could forgive talking to someone, or fo


Sfort said:


> What will your reaction be if you learn that she's been having one or more affairs?


I had already mentioned in a conversation with her that I could forgive talking to someone, or flirting. But an action is where I draw the line. Whether it be a kiss or whatever. She told me that's not been a thing, now how honest is she being with me I really have no clue, she could be hiding quite a bit from me.


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## Marc878

Go online and check your phone bill. Always a good quick and easy check.


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## DudeInProgress

travislandes63 said:


> Well I told her that I could forgive talking to someone, or fo
> 
> I had already mentioned in a conversation with her that I could forgive talking to someone, or flirting. But an action is where I draw the line. Whether it be a kiss or whatever. She told me that's not been a thing, now how honest is she being with me I really have no clue, she could be hiding quite a bit from me.


Dude, even telling her that you’re OK with talking or flirting is was a really stupid move. It tells her that you are weak and tolerant of disloyal behavior.

You needed to set some boundaries a long time ago. 
And you never offer to proactively forgive anything. Bad/inappropriate behavior requires consequences, not preemptive forgiveness.


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## Marc878

Just because you love her doesn’t mean a thing. It’s obvious she doesn’t love you. Wake up to reality or suffer needlessly and longer.
There is no magic fix to your situation. Doing the pick me dance or trying to nice her back will only work against you.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Attention!

You may be a candidate for my bootcamp for betrayed husbands. You are standing on the yellow footprints of Sgt. NLLH’s Take No More **** Bootcamp. As I have told others pretend R. Lee Ermy is talking to you as you read my words to take charge of your life and stop wallowing in uncertainty. She wants you as ”Plan B” while she checks out another man. DO NOT TOLERATE THIS. UNDERSTAND RECRUIT! Your reply is YES SGT! Imaging Parris Island only you get to keep your hair.

1- You will not stand by and be Plan B. Understand Recruit. Unacceptable during basic at Sgt NLLH’s Bootcamp. Got it!

2- You cannot control her actions but you can and will control yours. You will tell her UNNACCEPTABLE what she is doing. She decided to stay married she stays home! If she goes to find herself…. DIVORCE PAPERS TO BE SERVED! Understand.

3- SHe does not have to find herself. Pure ******** Recruit? She ain’t lost. Hell you know where to find her. DO NOT TOLERATE THIS STUPIDITY ON HER PART! UNDERSTAND!

4- YOU WILL DISPLAY STRENGHT. YOU WILL NOT SHOW WEAKNESS. YOU WILL NOT BEG HER TO STAY. YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS SITUATION. UNDERSTAND RECRUIT?!!!!!

5- YOU CAN AND WILL WORK ON BECOMING A BETTER YOU! YOU WILL HIT THE GYM! YOU WILL GET SOME NEW CLOTHES! YOU WILL BECOME A BETTER PERSON! NO EXCUSES! UNDERSTAND?!!!

6- YOU WILL NOT, I REPEAT, YOU WILL NOT ALLOW HER TO RE-WRITE YOUR MARITAL HISTORY! UNDERSTAND!?

7- YOU ARE STRONGER THAN YOU REALIZE. YOU WILL PULL OFF THE BAND AID, TELL HER TO CHOOSE YOU OR HER CURRENT AFFAIR PARTNER !

8- YOU HAVE BEEN WOUNDED, BUT YOU ARE NOT DEFEATED BY ANY MEANS. UNDERSTAND!

9- YOU WILL READY NO MORE MR NICE GUY and GROW A PAIR AND IMPLEMENT WHAT YOU GLEAN FROM THESE BOOKS. REQUIRED AT SGT NLLH SCHOOL. UNDERSTAND

10- PICK ME DANCE IS NOT ALLOWED. YOU WILL WASH UP IF YOU DO THIS!

DISMISSED!


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## BeyondRepair007

travislandes63 said:


> Well I told her that I could forgive talking to someone, or fo
> 
> I had already mentioned in a conversation with her that I could forgive talking to someone, or flirting. But an action is where I draw the line. Whether it be a kiss or whatever. She told me that's not been a thing, *now how honest is she being with me I really have no clue*, she could be hiding quite a bit from me.


I'm pretty sure we have a clue. She's a liar. You should assume the worst and act that way until you know differently.
And WTH is with you giving permission to flirt with other guys??? What about Oral...as long as it wasn't sex is that ok? What if he touched her but she never touched him? Puleeze.

You need to get angry about this and let that fuel your actions to stand up for yourself.


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## travislandes63

Well it seems unanimous amongst everyone, maybe I have been the nice guy, I've never tried to control her, because her dad did that and maybe it's bit me in the a**.


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## SunCMars

Andy1001 said:


> Stop paying for her college course and for anything other than necessities. Let her experience working for a living.


Normally, I would agree with this, but she needs a steady means to provide for herself and her children.
Is her graduation in ~5 months, or so?
If so, he can carry her for that long.

Plus, in divorce court, her having a viable trade, will end up costing him less money when they divorce.

If she gets primary custody, then she needs a steady income.
Kids should come first.

It may be, that she does not want the kids as primary and may push them off on our OP.

She never got to experience that younger 'carefree' life and she wants to do it now, before she gets too old.
Don't be too surprised if she has single/divorced toxic friends who are a bad influence on your marriage.

.........................................................

Did you mention what those bad things that you also did in the marriage?
Did it involve cheating, or something criminal?


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## travislandes63

SunCMars said:


> Normally, I would agree with this, but she needs a steady means to provide for herself and her children.
> Is her graduation in ~5 months, or so?
> If so, he can carry her for that long.
> 
> Plus, in divorce court, her having a viable trade, will end up costing him less money when they divorce.
> 
> If she gets primary custody, then she needs a steady income.
> Kids should come first.
> 
> It may be, that she does not want the kids as primary and may push them off on our OP.
> 
> She never got to experience that younger 'carefree' life and she now wants to do it now, before she gets too old.
> Don't be too surprised if has single/divorced toxic friends who are a bad influence on your marriage.
> 
> .........................................................
> 
> Did you mention what those bad things that you also did in the marriage?
> Did it involve cheating, or something criminal?


When I was much younger I may have went on sites that weren't appropriate at the time and it hurt her. She has image issues, a bad upbringing, some mental health issues. I also asked if this stems from girls at her school. She's the oldest in the class, everyone else is fresh out of high school. She stated that graduation is the end of January, that's when she can get a job and feel that everything will "click" together as far as a decision to be made. I should also mention, she has went on numerous girls trips, I've never controlled her because her dad did most of that, I wanted her to express herself, be herself essentially. So if the girls trips meant for her to feel that youth she missed out on I was ok with it. Because I trusted her to know where home was. But now there's uncertainty attached to it. I had also mentioned in a previous re hash that I wanted to know what she wanted, she stated she doesn't know. I had said that if you want out then go, and the Financials would work themselves out. Everytime I get "grumpy" or upset she throws leaving into the mix to "help" me.


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## Sfort

travislandes63 said:


> Well I told her that I could forgive talking to someone, or fo
> 
> I had already mentioned in a conversation with her that I could forgive talking to someone, or flirting. But an action is where I draw the line. Whether it be a kiss or whatever. She told me that's not been a thing, now how honest is she being with me I really have no clue, she could be hiding quite a bit from me.


A cheater is never honest. Hopefully you realize that there is probably a 90% chance that she is having one or more physical relationships with another man. We don't know your wife, and hopefully we're wrong, but the odds are dramatically against you.


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## Sfort

travislandes63 said:


> I wanted her to express herself


You've gotten your wish. Now listen to what she's saying.


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## travislandes63

Sfort said:


> A cheater is never honest. Hopefully you realize that there is probably a 90% chance that she is having one or more physical relationships with another man. We don't know your wife, and hopefully we're wrong, but the odds are dramatically against you.


Well she has always been admit against cheating, and that it wouldn't happen. Now talking I felt was one thing, and can be classified as cheating in its own right. But there was also a line in the sand, that physical actions were not tolerated. How honest is she being with me, is for her to know and me to find out.


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## So far so good

travislandes63 said:


> I've never tried to control her, because her dad did that and maybe it's bit me in the a**.


You are not controlling her, you are setting boundaries as to what you can accept or not.

"Wife, you are free to flirt and date other men but not as my wife"

The above is not controlling. She IS free to do whatever she wants, you are free to walk away from someone who is not committed to your marriage.

Your wife is not into you, let her go.


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## DudeInProgress

travislandes63 said:


> When I was much younger I may have went on sites that weren't appropriate at the time and it hurt her. She has image issues, a bad upbringing, some mental health issues. I also asked if this stems from girls at her school. She's the oldest in the class, everyone else is fresh out of high school. She stated that graduation is the end of January, that's when she can get a job and feel that everything will "click" together as far as a decision to be made. I should also mention, she has went on numerous girls trips, I've never controlled her because her dad did most of that, I wanted her to express herself, be herself essentially. So if the girls trips meant for her to feel that youth she missed out on I was ok with it. Because I trusted her to know where home was. But now there's uncertainty attached to it. I had also mentioned in a previous re hash that I wanted to know what she wanted, she stated she doesn't know. I had said that if you want out then go, and the Financials would work themselves out. Everytime I get "grumpy" or upset she throws leaving into the mix to "help" me.


Dude, the “youth that she missed out on“ usually includes feeling free to engage romantically/sexually with other men.

So yes, you’ve clearly been way too passive and you failed to set boundaries and expectations for your marriage and for your wife.
It’s not about “controlling” her, it’s about choosing and enforcing what you will and won’t tolerate in your marriage.
She has to meet certain standards of value and behavior to qualify to be your wife.

Your fear of being “controlling“ has probably helped to create this destructive situation.


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## Openminded

Three years ago she was very likely looking for your replacement but didn’t find him (probably just didn’t work out with who she had in mind). Now it appears that she’s looking again. You’re Plan B and she may end up staying this time too but it doesn’t mean she’ll stop looking. You have to decide whether that’s okay or not.


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## Luckylucky

Ok Buddy… what did you do this time. Be honest and let’s help you work this out. I’m here to help.


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## travislandes63

Luckylucky said:


> Ok Buddy… what did you do this time. Be honest and let’s help you work this out. I’m here to help.


I've not done anything, of course I work 60hrs a week, im not home but every other weekend but I've done this since she started school. I've always let her kinda do whatever girls trips, piercings, tattoos, whatever made her feel like herself. Now there's a bit of financial hardship just with me working, so she hasn't gotten to go out on shopping sprees and stuff, but she always said it was temporary till she had a job. Up till June we never actually got a day without the kids and we went for a weekend away, I've always stressed to her that I love her, she sees herself as ugly, fat, etc... I've always told her that she's beautiful and others opinions of her should not make her feel as though she has to close up and not talk to me. Then she dropped she's unhappy and unsure about a month ago. I've tried wrapping my mind around it, as to why? We have a nice house, 2 decent cars, 3 kids. Everything she ever stated that she wanted she pretty well got. Botox, lip fillers, was working towards a mommy package. She's dealt with insecurities long before we ever got married, and I always tried to be there as comfort and a constant for her. She had a bad upbringing, deals with that a lot. Depression etc... we have a lot of commonalities, we differ some as well. But overall everything was what one would think a good marriage should be. That's why I'm blindsided really. If there's something I forgot ill mention it, or if there's additional questions


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## Luckylucky

Thanks for replying, but I wasn’t so much asking about her. Good to know anyway, but it was more this that stood out:

“I'm no Saint and have done things in the past that have hurt her, but have always apologized and asked for forgiveness. This same situation happened three years ago, which she returned a month later and said it was stupid”

So I understood that last time you did something that caused her to question the marriage and leave, and she forgave you after your aplogised for hurting her. And then she came back and reconciled. Is this what you meant by you being no saint?


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## travislandes63

Luckylucky said:


> Thanks for replying, but I wasn’t so much asking about her. Good to know anyway, but it was more this that stood out:
> 
> “I'm no Saint and have done things in the past that have hurt her, but have always apologized and asked for forgiveness. This same situation happened three years ago, which she returned a month later and said it was stupid”
> 
> So I understood that last time you did something that caused her to question the marriage and leave, and she forgave you after your aplogised for hurting her. And then she came back and reconciled. Is this what you meant by you being no saint?


Oh no I'm sorry my wording and punctuation wasn't accurate. I meant years prior like 8 years ago. 3 years ago I did nothing, same as now, to what made her unsure and question everything. Our daughter was nearly 1 at that time. Now we've added one more child to the mix who's getting ready to turn 2 in December.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Let her go. She no longer cares about you. Give her what she wants so you can move on and live a life you deserve without being constrained by a cheater.


----------



## statuscheck

travislandes63 said:


> Well I told her that I could forgive talking to someone, or fo
> 
> I had already mentioned in a conversation with her that I could forgive talking to someone, or flirting. But an action is where I draw the line. Whether it be a kiss or whatever. She told me that's not been a thing, now how honest is she being with me I really have no clue, she could be hiding quite a bit from me.


Gosh she sounds absolutely selfish. You can do better. She is self-absorbed. She's taking you for granted and toying with everyone's emotions, and lives. She's exploiting every family members' need for a sense of security. She sounds shallow and cruel. Perhaps she's warm and charming and fun or who knows what but someone that selfish will always terrorize and disrupt everyone. 
Couples can do crappy things to each other and work it out or not, but the kids are developing and need support, nurturing and guidance. Is she providing any of that? Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like the whole household is in service to her whims. 
You sound like a caring person and I hope you're directing that to the kids and they will remember it. You'll all be the better for letting her go and spending your energy on bonding together and working on your lives without her drama.


----------



## travislandes63

statuscheck said:


> Gosh she sounds absolutely selfish. You can do better. She is self-absorbed. She's taking you for granted and toying with everyone's emotions, and lives. She's exploiting every family members' need for a sense of security. She sounds shallow and cruel. Perhaps she's warm and charming and fun or who knows what but someone that selfish will always terrorize and disrupt everyone.
> Couples can do crappy things to each other and work it out or not, but the kids are developing and need support, nurturing and guidance. Is she providing any of that? Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like the whole household is in service to her whims.
> You sound like a caring person and I hope you're directing that to the kids and they will remember it. You'll all be the better for letting her go and spending your energy on bonding together and working on your lives without her drama.


Well me and my 8 year old were having a conversation cause he can see the dynamics changed. She came home from working out at her dad's house, he's crying and she just plainly put it "it's ok these things happen" and went inside. Whilst we continued our talk for another 15-20 minutes. I had a thought that this mother who so cares for her children, or so I thought didn't give him any emotional support what so ever. Where she claims that these kids are everything, to leave him so cold pained me. I get being a mother from 18-19 years old can change you as a person. But the once so nurturing, kind, gentle woman she was, was instantly cold and bitter towards her oldest, that she raised single handedly whilst I worked away supporting us. Now am I hurt by missing his infancy, yes it pains me. But I also had to do everything I could to show this woman I wasn't gonna be some dead beat dad. The best way I knew how, even not having a father of my own in my life to look to for guidance. I created what I thought a father does for his wife and children. I can see in this last month she's changed for better or for worse however she sees fit I suppose. It's all about her and what makes her happy now, we are all along for the ride I guess.


----------



## oldshirt

She is sticking around at the moment so you can feather her nest for her so she can leave you in comfort when she has her nest all ready to move in to. 

You are being played. She is preparing her next life but having you foot the bills and doing all her work for her. At this point, you will be the one burying her new furniture and then loading the moving truck and hauling it to her new place (ie her other man's house) yourself. 

You are not only being played, you are downright delusional if you think she is not getting with other men. She has dating apps and is openly interacting with other men and you are saying it's ok??? 

You have been asleep at the wheel. You are in your own dreamworld and are sleepwalking through life. You are not grounded in reality. You have managed to delude yourself and insulate yourself from the obvious. At this rate, you will get her moved into her new man's house and then wonder why she's not home for supper. 

It's time to wake up.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Grow a Pair! Read it now!


----------



## travislandes63

oldshirt said:


> She is sticking around at the moment so you can feather her nest for her so she can leave you in comfort when she has her nest all ready to move in to.
> 
> You are being played. She is preparing her next life but having you foot the bills and doing all her work for her. At this point, you will be the one burying her new furniture and then loading the moving truck and hauling it to her new place (ie her other man's house) yourself.
> 
> You are not only being played, you are downright delusional if you think she is not getting with other men. She has dating apps and is openly interacting with other men and you are saying it's ok???
> 
> You have been asleep at the wheel. You are in your own dreamworld and are sleepwalking through life. You are not grounded in reality. You have managed to delude yourself and insulate yourself from the obvious. At this rate, you will get her moved into her new man's house and then wonder why she's not home for supper.
> 
> It's time to wake up.


I never said I was ok with it. I brought it up because I friend from work has the same app, and found her in there. She stated to me that it was the girls from school trying to boost her co fidence and such. Which maybe that's true, who knows. I brought it up again a few days later and she had told me she isn't actively looking for anyone, or rushing anything. Which could also be interpreted as she's just patiently waiting for income taxes and to have her career set up. Some of you come across to me that I've had no emotion in this, no anger, or sadness. The day she threw divorce out in argument and got in my face about it, I showed her a fire in me that had her sit down and actually listen to my words, instead of talking over me and showing her dominance in conversation. I have a relatively long fuse in situations, I also feel I'm a very active participant when speaking, but no man or woman will raise their voice and belittle me. I made that evidently clear. Do I have any evidence other then a screenshot from a friend of the dating app, no. Do I know what conversations are had no. Do I really care to know probably not. I do know this, last weekend she took off for 2.5 hours. Sat at a casino parking lot, read some self help books, and then proceeded to call me balling her eyes out that she has no idea what's going on, or what's really happening. She can't pinpoint if what she feels stems from an unhappy life and marriage, or is solely something within her. She has also stated before that what if she tries to see if the grass is greener on the other side and can't come back at all, or is happy over there. I told her this, the grass can be green where ever you water it.


----------



## travislandes63

travislandes63 said:


> I never said I was ok with it. I brought it up because I friend from work has the same app, and found her in there. She stated to me that it was the girls from school trying to boost her co fidence and such. Which maybe that's true, who knows. I brought it up again a few days later and she had told me she isn't actively looking for anyone, or rushing anything. Which could also be interpreted as she's just patiently waiting for income taxes and to have her career set up. Some of you come across to me that I've had no emotion in this, no anger, or sadness. The day she threw divorce out in argument and got in my face about it, I showed her a fire in me that had her sit down and actually listen to my words, instead of talking over me and showing her dominance in conversation. I have a relatively long fuse in situations, I also feel I'm a very active participant when speaking, but no man or woman will raise their voice and belittle me. I made that evidently clear. Do I have any evidence other then a screenshot from a friend of the dating app, no. Do I know what conversations are had no. Do I really care to know probably not. I do know this, last weekend she took off for 2.5 hours. Sat at a casino parking lot, read some self help books, and then proceeded to call me balling her eyes out that she has no idea what's going on, or what's really happening. She can't pinpoint if what she feels stems from an unhappy life and marriage, or is solely something within her. She has also stated before that what if she tries to see if the grass is greener on the other side and can't come back at all, or is happy over there. I told her this, the grass can be green where ever you water it.


Speaking and listening* 
I would also say that typing this on a smartphone is not the greatest idea, nor is my phrasing or punctuation spot on.


----------



## statuscheck

travislandes63 said:


> Well me and my 8 year old were having a conversation cause he can see the dynamics changed. She came home from working out at her dad's house, he's crying and she just plainly put it "it's ok these things happen" and went inside. Whilst we continued our talk for another 15-20 minutes. I had a thought that this mother who so cares for her children, or so I thought didn't give him any emotional support what so ever. Where she claims that these kids are everything, to leave him so cold pained me. I get being a mother from 18-19 years old can change you as a person. But the once so nurturing, kind, gentle woman she was, was instantly cold and bitter towards her oldest, that she raised single handedly whilst I worked away supporting us. Now am I hurt by missing his infancy, yes it pains me. But I also had to do everything I could to show this woman I wasn't gonna be some dead beat dad. The best way I knew how, even not having a father of my own in my life to look to for guidance. I created what I thought a father does for his wife and children. I can see in this last month she's changed for better or for worse however she sees fit I suppose. It's all about her and what makes her happy now, we are all along for the ride I guess.


well you have a lot to offer and a strong work ethic isn't anything to apologize for. That is something to be proud of and your kids can be proud of you for that too. If you've been a loyal husband (you did make it sound like something was off several years ago but anyway) then you can be proud of that too, and your kids will see your loyalty and integrity. 

Maybe you could talk to them, or for the younger ones tell stories, about what you do for / at work. That would help them understand your absence, and why you weren't home. Turn your absence in to a learning opportunity for them, about work and how to choose what you want to do, all the options out there if you dream big and start preparing young, etc. etc. 

You could take them to your local library and check out children's books about work and careers. Get a dialog going with them about that re. their futures. You've already established that it's important (yay). That can get a discussion going about solid things - real things - and goals and values. Your wife's goals and values are all over the place. Nevermind why, ya'll can't dwell in her past. Your kids are looking to you for stability and you seem more than able to provide it. You can savor that and be proud and enjoy a family culture where you all work on real things and daily goals together. One day at a time! And no guilt about not being around so much when for the older ones when they were babies. Just move forward and focus on what you do have -- yourself, your work ethic, a caring nature, apparently listening skills, the kids development, their learning, their taking pride in work/hobbies and accomplishments of their own.


----------



## statuscheck

statuscheck said:


> well you have a lot to offer and a strong work ethic isn't anything to apologize for. That is something to be proud of and your kids can be proud of you for that too. If you've been a loyal husband (you did make it sound like something was off several years ago but anyway) then you can be proud of that too, and your kids will see your loyalty and integrity.
> 
> Maybe you could talk to them, or for the younger ones tell stories, about what you do for / at work. That would help them understand your absence, and why you weren't home. Turn your absence in to a learning opportunity for them, about work and how to choose what you want to do, all the options out there if you dream big and start preparing young, etc. etc.
> 
> You could take them to your local library and check out children's books about work and careers. Get a dialog going with them about that re. their futures. You've already established that it's important (yay). That can get a discussion going about solid things - real things - and goals and values. Your wife's goals and values are all over the place. Nevermind why, ya'll can't dwell in her past. Your kids are looking to you for stability and you seem more than able to provide it. You can savor that and be proud and enjoy a family culture where you all work on real things and daily goals together. One day at a time! And no guilt about not being around so much when for the older ones when they were babies. Just move forward and focus on what you do have -- yourself, your work ethic, a caring nature, apparently listening skills, the kids development, their learning, their taking pride in work/hobbies and accomplishments of their own.


one more thing -- it's possible she criticizes herself to you (saying she's ugly, fat, etc,) to hear you tell her how beautiful she is. If she is seeing other men, yet still not getting the level of attention she craves, she could be having you reinforce for her her need to hear glowing things about herself. That could be enabling if she's being manipulative. Hard to know with her difficult background but again, you and the kids can't dwell on that. You have your own lives to get on with.


----------



## Beach123

Sfort said:


> A cheater is never honest. Hopefully you realize that there is probably a 90% chance that she is having one or more physical relationships with another man. We don't know your wife, and hopefully we're wrong, but the odds are dramatically against you.


yep! The cheater rarely admits it! Don’t believe a word she says.

right now, look at her phone bill and find out who communicates with her on a daily basis!


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## Beach123

travislandes63 said:


> I've not done anything, of course I work 60hrs a week, im not home but every other weekend but I've done this since she started school. I've always let her kinda do whatever girls trips, piercings, tattoos, whatever made her feel like herself. Now there's a bit of financial hardship just with me working, so she hasn't gotten to go out on shopping sprees and stuff, but she always said it was temporary till she had a job. Up till June we never actually got a day without the kids and we went for a weekend away, I've always stressed to her that I love her, she sees herself as ugly, fat, etc... I've always told her that she's beautiful and others opinions of her should not make her feel as though she has to close up and not talk to me. Then she dropped she's unhappy and unsure about a month ago. I've tried wrapping my mind around it, as to why? We have a nice house, 2 decent cars, 3 kids. Everything she ever stated that she wanted she pretty well got. Botox, lip fillers, was working towards a mommy package. She's dealt with insecurities long before we ever got married, and I always tried to be there as comfort and a constant for her. She had a bad upbringing, deals with that a lot. Depression etc... we have a lot of commonalities, we differ some as well. But overall everything was what one would think a good marriage should be. That's why I'm blindsided really. If there's something I forgot ill mention it, or if there's additional questions


she changed a month ago because that’s when she really got interested in someone else! Open your eyes!
Here you are working one full time job and one part time job and she goes for Botox and fillers? STOP THAT! STOP paying for things that aren’t bare necessities!

she is acting spoiled while you work yourself to death… this is just SO wrong.

read No More Me Nice Guy!
Read CoDependent No More

And most of all stop helping her use you!


----------



## jlg07

travislandes63 said:


> he says shes not interested in other people and is in no rush for anything,


She is lying just to make sure you stick around for her, once she's done trying out other guys, just in case.
You said "but she's talking to other guys, found she has a dating app, hides her phone, has changed passwords. "
And you believe when she says she's not interested in other people?

YOU need to take control of YOUR life and not wait around for her to decide. You can't make her fall in love with you again, or somehow "do more stuff" to make her come back. You CAN work on yourself -- workout, eat right, start/restart hobbies, and of course spend great quality time with your kids.

Yeah, STOP paying for her school (tell her she wants to be single, well single folks have jobs and pay for their own schooling) and get a few lawyers meetings to understand what divorce would look like for you and get a game plan together.


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## travislandes63

Thank you everyone


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## travislandes63

Beach123 said:


> yep! The cheater rarely admits it! Don’t believe a word she says.
> 
> right now, look at her phone bill and find out who communicates with her on a daily basis!


Well we have a family plan with her parents so I don't have access to that, however she rarely texts or calls anyone. It's all snapchat or Facebook messenger


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## Jimi007

She has a dating app on her phone...Thats really all u need to know...See a lawyer


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## CursiveWritingOnTheWall

I wish I would have had some warnings like these. 
I'm sorry about your situation.


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## Young at Heart

travislandes63 said:


> So what's the plan, I want to fight for her. I really do care, and love this woman. But yes I have seen the warning signs. I had ultimately thought of sitting her down and explaining that if she can't give me a definitive answer to whether she wants to work it our or not that I'm done, regardless the hurt and pain i would have doing so. My kids have noticed the changed and are ultimately scared for whats to come, but i feel shes essentially put my love on hold. She says shes not interested in other people and is in no rush for anything, but i cant help but think even though ive always trusted her prior. I've already got a lawyer in the works as a plan B.


Sounds like you know what you want, but are prepared for what is likely to happen.

May I suggest M.W. Davis book Divorce Busting, since you are trying to avoid the obvious.

Good luck. While your post talks about your love for her and wanting to fight for your marriage. May I suggest that you focus on (1) your children and what is best for them and (2) what is best for you. Whatever happens, fight for what is best for your children. Make sure that no matter what happens and how crazy your wife gets, that you make your children a priority.


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## Beach123

Ok then, fight for a woman that isn’t fighting for you. 
understand fully well this is a one sided union.


----------



## DamianDamian

I don't want to sound rude, but the hard blunt truth is what you need. This woman is a selfish personality disordered abuser. She's never going to change and you'd be far better off without her despite what you think. She has preyed on your own perceived inadequacies over a long time period, eroded your self-esteem and made you dependent on her. Stop simping, divorce her asap. Don't listen to her, 180, divorce. Start appreciating decent, and kind of boring, and almost average looking women that treat you well. This C isn't worth your time - she does not love you and everything that rolls out her mouth is immature egotistical sh*t - she isn't smart. Grow some balls and save yourself.


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## gameopoly5

I read an almost identical story on Reddit, a few months ago.
But regardless, if my wife came at me with a deadline whether she`ll divorce me or not, I would not give her that option.
It would be it`s make your mind up time right now, And if still unsure, she`d be out the door within the next hour just enough time to pack all her crap and go.
Trust me I`m being serious and the OP, if this story is true, should grow a pair and do the same.


----------



## Luckylucky

So I asked twice about that line ‘I’m no saint’ and you alluded to doing things to hurt her and she forgave you, and you twice avoided answering that question. Also adding that you did nothing. But it’s clearly there in writing and there’s a clear avoidance of answering.

So I’m happy to ask one last time before I just move on from this post: what is it that you did to hurt her, what required her forgiveness?


----------



## ABHale

travislandes63 said:


> Well I told her that I could forgive talking to someone, or fo
> 
> I had already mentioned in a conversation with her that I could forgive talking to someone, or flirting. But an action is where I draw the line. Whether it be a kiss or whatever. She told me that's not been a thing, now how honest is she being with me I really have no clue, she could be hiding quite a bit from me.


At least you’re willing to believe she could be lying to you. There are many that say that their SO would never cheat.


----------



## ABHale

She is being guided by her friends at work. She is listening to their bs and acting on it.

She met someone at that parking lot and felt guilty afterwards.

She cheated. Get your lawyer and go for full custody of the kids. Stop working 60 and week and start spending time with your kids more, if you can financially.


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## Marc878

You have a choice. Walk away and let her go or stay entangled in this.
Only you can keep yourself trapped.


----------



## Jimi007

Marc878 said:


> You have a choice. Walk away and let her go or stay entangled in this.
> Only you can keep yourself trapped.


I fully expected the Hopium speech...lol.
Love it Marc and so spot on


----------



## Marc878

travislandes63 said:


> I never said I was ok with it. I brought it up because I friend from work has the same app, and found her in there. She stated to me that it was the girls from school trying to boost her co fidence and such. Which maybe that's true, who knows. I brought it up again a few days later and she had told me she isn't actively looking for anyone, or rushing anything. Which could also be interpreted as she's just patiently waiting for income taxes and to have her career set up. Some of you come across to me that I've had no emotion in this, no anger, or sadness. The day she threw divorce out in argument and got in my face about it, I showed her a fire in me that had her sit down and actually listen to my words, instead of talking over me and showing her dominance in conversation. I have a relatively long fuse in situations, I also feel I'm a very active participant when speaking, but no man or woman will raise their voice and belittle me. I made that evidently clear. Do I have any evidence other then a screenshot from a friend of the dating app, no. Do I know what conversations are had no. Do I really care to know probably not. I do know this, last weekend she took off for 2.5 hours. Sat at a casino parking lot, read some self help books, and then proceeded to call me balling her eyes out that she has no idea what's going on, or what's really happening. She can't pinpoint if what she feels stems from an unhappy life and marriage, or is solely something within her. She has also stated before that what if she tries to see if the grass is greener on the other side and can't come back at all, or is happy over there. I told her this, the grass can be green where ever you water it.


Oh cmon. You only need enough info for yourself. Your problem is you are doing everything possible not to make a decision. Keeping yourself bound up in this is getter you what?
it’s actions versus words.


----------



## ConanHub

travislandes63 said:


> Good morning yall, so to not write this out till the cows come home. My wife and I have been together going on 11 years, married for 8. We have 3 children together, bought a house a year ago, decent cars. Overall I've tried to provide everything for her, I've never once tried controlling the aspects of her life as far as appearance, or what interests her. Some say she's high maintenance, but to me if it made her happy then that's all that mattered. Here come last March she began school for cosmetology which has always been a dream, I pushed her to do so because it meant a lot and her previous jobs always made her hate working there. I've been working long hours to support us through this time. About a month ago she dropped the she's unsure about us, might want a divorce, she's unhappy, often thinks about if there's something else out there. We are both 28, we had our oldest at 19. I stepped up and continued to provide for our family and climbed the rigorous ladder to get to a place of financial stability. I'm no Saint and have done things in the past that have hurt her, but have always apologized and asked for forgiveness. This same situation happened three years ago, which she returned a month later and said it was stupid. This time however she wants even longer. She tells me she won't have a decision till she's out of school in January and has a job. I want to make this work, have offered to do anything by any means to make this work. But she just isn't sure. I try talking to her, and it's pointless almost, just running around the same bush. She states her actions should show that she's not out of the house, still communicates. But gives me no emotional indication that she wants to work. Some say I'm just getting strung along before a bomb drops in January, to get my things in order and be prepared for the worst. I love this woman whole heartedly. She means a great deal to me, but she's talking to other guys, found she has a dating app, hides her phone, has changed passwords. Where she has always had open access to everything of mine. I have my own issues to work on I get that, she says she's finding herself and what makes her happy, she's not focused on anyone or anything but that. But I'm torn internally I wanna wait and be patient to show her I'm here, I always have been. But another part of me doesn't want to wait, put effort into making things right with myself and her. If ultimately she's decided to leave regardless of what I can do to change things. She talks in what ifs and scenarios, the kids have noticed, they come to me scared and anxious of what may happen. I'm just kinda lost. I've reached out to numerous therapist's in the area, all are booked, or changing location currently. Can someone offer real guidance. Family and friends have all gave their input, most of which is all bad.
> Thank you


Don't even have to finish. You both apparently have a history of cheating.

She has another one, or two, on the line and wants to keep you as a backup until she is ready to launch.

Cut the cord, quit trying to be a white knight simp and be a man.

Do the 180 and start looking out for yourself.

Lawyer up without talking to her to see how it can look for you.

Start planning your life without her in it.

I guarantee she has already been doing just that for some time.

You are definitely young enough to start again and it sounds like you are a very productive fellow.

Your wife is a spoiled brat that needs a nice wake up call to grow up or not.

You are partly to blame for simping for her for years and stepping out on her obviously didn't help your situation.

Tell her to put up or shut up because halfway doesn't work.

Your marriage and children deserve a full commitment and effort from both of you or just cut the BS and get something else going that includes two adults.

You two are acting like children and that isn't good for the real children stuck in the middle between you two dipsticks.

Grab your balls and start acting like a man.

Your kids need at least one adult in the room.

This isn't about what you or your wife want so much because you brought children into the world.

Get the paperwork for a divorce worked up and find out how it's going to look. Don't skimp and get an experienced family law attorney.

After you get that done, sit that silly little girl you married down and have an adult conversation with her about her bullshyt and own your own past as well.

End this nonsense or both of you grow the hell up.


----------



## travislandes63

Luckylucky said:


> So I asked twice about that line ‘I’m no saint’ and you alluded to doing things to hurt her and she forgave you, and you twice avoided answering that question. Also adding that you did nothing. But it’s clearly there in writing and there’s a clear avoidance of answering.
> 
> So I’m happy to ask one last time before I just move on from this post: what is it that you did to hurt her, what required her forgiveness?


When I was much younger, and dumb I went to websites and looked at things that hurt her, that broke trust between us.


----------



## ConanHub

travislandes63 said:


> When I was much younger, and dumb I went to websites and looked at things that hurt her, that broke trust between us.


So you've looked at porn and she went off and f'd somebody but came back after a month?


----------



## travislandes63

ConanHub said:


> So you've looked at porn and she went off and f'd somebody but came back after a month?


She never told me if she had f***** somebody or not, she stayed at the house for the most part, probably talked to somebody not sure. That was 3 years ago, me looking at porn was 8 years ago.


----------



## ConanHub

travislandes63 said:


> She never told me if she had f***** somebody or not, she stayed at the house for the most part, probably talked to somebody not sure. That was 3 years ago, me looking at porn was 8 years ago.


Those details are needed for you two to move forward or not.

Regardless, she is a spoiled brat and my previous advice stands.

She would have to go a very long way to find a man that gives as much as you do and at this point in her life, the odds are nearly impossible.


----------



## travislandes63

ConanHub said:


> Those details are needed for you two to move forward or not.
> 
> Regardless, she is a spoiled brat and my previous advice stands.
> 
> She would have to go a very long way to find a man that gives as much as you do and at this point in her life, the odds are nearly impossible.


I understand, she has a very hard time seeing herself naked let alone in front of me, or a complete stranger. Not to say maybe she's gotten a wild hair up her ass could also be a case. But I can also see her not, maybe I'm still blind to the matter.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

travislandes63 said:


> She means a great deal to me, but she's talking to other guys, found she has a dating app, hides her phone, has changed passwords.


Disclaimer: I have only read OP's first post:

That there would be enough to tell her to get lost and never cross paths with me again.

What you are doing is called the pick-me-dance (search this site for it). It serves only to extinguish the last embers of respect she might have still had for you and a woman despises a man she doesn't respect, she'll never fall back in love with such a man.


----------



## Evinrude58

travislandes63 said:


> Good morning yall, so to not write this out till the cows come home. My wife and I have been together going on 11 years, married for 8. We have 3 children together, bought a house a year ago, decent cars. Overall I've tried to provide everything for her, I've never once tried controlling the aspects of her life as far as appearance, or what interests her. Some say she's high maintenance, but to me if it made her happy then that's all that mattered. Here come last March she began school for cosmetology which has always been a dream, I pushed her to do so because it meant a lot and her previous jobs always made her hate working there. I've been working long hours to support us through this time. About a month ago she dropped the she's unsure about us, might want a divorce, she's unhappy, often thinks about if there's something else out there. We are both 28, we had our oldest at 19. I stepped up and continued to provide for our family and climbed the rigorous ladder to get to a place of financial stability. I'm no Saint and have done things in the past that have hurt her, but have always apologized and asked for forgiveness. This same situation happened three years ago, which she returned a month later and said it was stupid. This time however she wants even longer. She tells me she won't have a decision till she's out of school in January and has a job. I want to make this work, have offered to do anything by any means to make this work. But she just isn't sure. I try talking to her, and it's pointless almost, just running around the same bush. She states her actions should show that she's not out of the house, still communicates. But gives me no emotional indication that she wants to work. Some say I'm just getting strung along before a bomb drops in January, to get my things in order and be prepared for the worst. I love this woman whole heartedly. *She means a great deal to me, but she's talking to other guys, found she has a dating app, hides her phone, has changed passwords. *Where she has always had open access to everything of mine. I have my own issues to work on I get that, she says she's finding herself and what makes her happy, she's not focused on anyone or anything but that. But I'm torn internally I wanna wait and be patient to show her I'm here, I always have been. But another part of me doesn't want to wait, put effort into making things right with myself and her. If ultimately she's decided to leave regardless of what I can do to change things. She talks in what ifs and scenarios, the kids have noticed, they come to me scared and anxious of what may happen. I'm just kinda lost. I've reached out to numerous therapist's in the area, all are booked, or changing location currently. Can someone offer real guidance. Family and friends have all gave their input, most of which is all bad.
> Thank you


I suspect you won’t interact here long, but you should consider the advice given.
Look at what you wrote. Your WIFE is talking to other me. And wants a legal separation to test them out during.

There’s only one thing that a confident man would do—- divorce her. Don’t give her a free pass to screw other men like you did last time.
Divorce her


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## TexasMom1216

Never, ever, ever do the “pick me” dance. Ever. Man or woman, no matter the age. If someone doesn’t value you, walk away.


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## Marc878

TexasMom1216 said:


> Never, ever, ever do the “pick me” dance. Ever. Man or woman, no matter the age. If someone doesn’t value you, walk away.


The worst thing is if you’d happen to win a pick me dance.


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## ConanHub

Hey OP, your wife shouldn't be making this decision.
Take your balls out of her purse and you start making decisions. Sheesh!


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## Luckylucky

travislandes63 said:


> When I was much younger, and dumb I went to websites and looked at things that hurt her, that broke trust between us.


Like messaging them and stuff? Dating sites or models, or just friends?


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## Livvie

Luckylucky said:


> Like messaging them and stuff? Dating sites or models, or just friends?


He looked at some porn.


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## Casual Observer

travislandes63 said:


> Well me and my 8 year old were having a conversation cause he can see the dynamics changed.


Married for 8 years, 8 year old kid. Was she pregnant when you got married? I ask because it's become such a common thing here, people who married when the SO became pregnant, and pregnancy outside of marriage, or I should say pregnancy resulting in a perceived need to marry, seems to have a negative correlation with a marriage that lasts. Is this the guy she would have wanted to marry, had she not become pregnant. Self-doubt about growing up too fast and missing out on choices. Possible resentment of the guy for her becoming pregnant. Some of this buried below the surface, some of it perhaps takes on meaning over time.

It feels like there might be an entirely different path for holding together a marriage that's in trouble, a marriage that was facilitated/sped up by pregnancy, vs otherwise. Different questions to ponder, different answers. Remaining married might still be the best option, but getting there might take a different route.

This is where the OP tells me no, they weren't pregnant before marriage, they'd discussed having kids ahead of time and were really looking forward to things working out exactly as they did. And I just kind of slink away hoping nobody notices...


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## Evinrude58

travislandes63 said:


> I never said I was ok with it. I brought it up because I friend from work has the same app, and found her in there. *She stated to me that it was the girls from school trying to boost her co fidence and such.* You’re incredibly gullible. Which maybe that's true, who knows. I brought it up again a few days later and she had told me she isn't actively looking for anyone, or rushing anything. You’ll believe anythingWhich could also be interpreted as she's just patiently waiting for income taxes and to have her career set up. Some of you come across to me that I've had no emotion in this, no anger, or sadness. The day she threw divorce out in argument and got in my face about it, I showed her a fire in me that had her sit down and actually listen to my words, instead of talking over me and showing her dominance in conversation. I have a relatively long fuse in situations, I also feel I'm a very active participant when speaking, but no man or woman will raise their voice and belittle me. I made that evidently clear. Do I have any evidence other then a screenshot from a friend of the dating app, no. What more do you need? My god!  Do I know what conversations are had no. Do I really care to know probably not. I do know this, last weekend she took off for 2.5 hours. Sat at a casino parking lot, read some self help books, and then proceeded to call me balling her eyes out that she has no idea what's going on, or what's really happening. She can't pinpoint if what she feels stems from an unhappy life and marriage, or is solely something within her. She has also stated before that what if she tries to see if the grass is greener on the other side and can't come back at all, or is happy over there. I told her this, the grass can be green where ever you water it.


You have a woman that is actively looking for your replacement, and when your friend shows you, you STILL coddle her. You have coddled her the whole relationship. You’ll be still doing it when she leaves you abd has you laying her to have sex with other men.

At this point, I don’t see how anyone can help you. You’re simply choosing to have your life revolve around her needs and wants, and you expect nothing from her. What you’re doing will end in a train wreck. But it’s yours to wait on.

She’s literally telling you she’s searching for other men and will want to come back if she.Can’t find one she likes. I suspect you will. I’m sorry


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## travislandes63

Ok to somewhat wrap a few of your answers into on so I'm not individual getting things mixed up here. We were seniors when we got together, we had talked about having kids and big family because it was something she was used to, and I never had and it was something I wanted. Trouble at home for both of us caused us to move out early, get an apartment and things went from there. This was 2012. My oldest was born in Jan. Of 2014. We got married in Dec. Of the same year. I have beat the horse to death about the dating site and actively pursuing someone else. I told her if that's the road she wanted to go down then to leave, regardless Financials etc... I got really irritated about the whole thing and let some anger out. Yesterday she came home, was obviously upset so we talked again and got through some weeds of the matter. She feels the romantic connection is lost, or has faded. Wants to date and start over again. But she also says she knows everything about me so is it a waste of time. She also stated that maybe her reflection of the marriage is actually stemming from her own hatred for her body, and all her mental issues being tossed to the next best thing, not her, us. She doesn't want to lose the house we built, but neither of us could afford it separated, and I will stand my ground to not pay for it if we do divorce. Because it was our home, not just one of us. She also says that being at her girlfriends house made her feel the freedom to do whatever, drink, smoke etc... so with the statement she said it makes me realize that no matter the time or effort I put forth, she will always want that. The only way she will get it is to go our separate ways. She isn't actively looking to my knowledge for anyone, because she can't stand being naked by herself let alone in front of me, or a stranger. Maybe I'm wrong. I told her my thoughts and feelings, and will probably do so more today regarding this issue. I don't want it to pan out for 4 more months and still receive the same result. She tells me she runs through all the scenarios and there's no one clear path for her. She wants to focus on healing herself above all else.


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## Dictum Veritas

@travislandes63 , the only way she will know what she lost is for you to take yourself off the table as an option for her. Right now she can do what she wants, but you are her safety net, plan-b fallback guy.

If you are happy in that role, please proceed on the path you are on, if not, file for divorce and have her served. Get ready for a life without her. She may or may not come crawling back and by then, you may not even want her back, because she doesn't love you or respect you at the moment and won't while you keep on being mr. Fallback Guy.

At least by taking yourself of the table, she will respect you again.

Moreover, by taking yourself off the table as her fallback plan, you can respect yourself again as-well.


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## travislandes63

I already have a lawyer I'll be calling in the morning. I tried to ask her, and it not be an ultimatum. As far as can she tell me and really dig deep and say that she would want to work at fixing any of this. Or is it just done. I consider myself a fighter, especially for things that matter to me. But I also do realize there is a line in the sand not to cross. Hence stating if I put forth effort into fixing issues, and get the same result it was time and effort wasted. She noticed I was being distant to her cause her two days away was actually nice on my end. She said it sounds like I already have a decision and she felt torn by that, that I lost hope in it. Which she's not too far from the truth of the matter.


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## Dictum Veritas

travislandes63 said:


> I already have a lawyer I'll be calling in the morning. I tried to ask her, and it not be an ultimatum. As far as can she tell me and really dig deep and say that she would want to work at fixing any of this. Or is it just done. I consider myself a fighter, especially for things that matter to me. But I also do realize there is a line in the sand not to cross. Hence stating if I put forth effort into fixing issues, and get the same result it was time and effort wasted. She noticed I was being distant to her cause her two days away was actually nice on my end. She said it sounds like I already have a decision and she felt torn by that, that I lost hope in it. Which she's not too far from the truth of the matter.


What your wife is doing is called hoovering. If you take yourself off the table, you need to really do it, no matter what she says right now. She'll say anything to have her Plan-B in place, even use sex, but once she's sure your back in your lane, she'll just keep on doing exactly what she feels like without regard to you.

Nope, divorce and don't even consider changing your mind. Give yourself a year or so as a single man and if she comes crawling, cut through broken glass to have you back after that time, perhaps you would have gained enough altitude to see the whole landscape and then decide if you really want this very selfish woman in your life again.


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## Evinrude58

Something to consider:
You have a truly awful wife who in my opinion will never be happy with anyone for any length of time. A Chronic discontent she is. Some people just can’t be happy, and think they would be with the “right person”. Nope, normal people work at making themselves happy by doing challenging things that bring happiness. 

secondly, the level of disrespect she is showing you…… a man with self respect wouid immediately do what you have done and see an attorney. File! There’s nothing else for you to do.

lsstly, you are sticking your head in the sand snd in total denial if you think she’s on a dating app and not wanting to screw other guys. She knows what guys want, she knows what she wants, it’s not just companionship.

wheb a woman tells you she’s lost romantic feelings abd us in a dating site—//. You are showing a lot of weakness in even talking to her. I wouldn’t. I suggest you break off all contact with her and just start the process of divorce.


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## Openminded

Not everyone is cut out for marriage.


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## Casual Observer

She could be on a dating app trying to figure out what’s “wrong” with her, or if it is even her but rather her husband that’s the issue. It could be at the urging of her girlfriends. It might not be that she’s actively looking, just trying to figure things out.

That’s just as bad as actively looking to screw somebody though, because it still represents an affront to the concept of marriage and boundaries. But if she’s trying to figure things out rather than actively seeking sex, it might change how you approach her. Think about her. Because to her, it’s all about her, not the spouse, not the family. She’s wandering in a dissociative state. I’d something brings her out of that, everything changes.


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## jlg07

travislandes63 said:


> She also says that being at her girlfriends house made her feel the freedom to do whatever, drink, smoke etc... so with the statement she said it makes me realize that* no matter the time or effort I put forth, she will always want that.*


I think you have your own answer here Travis....


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## travislandes63

Casual Observer said:


> She could be on a dating app trying to figure out what’s “wrong” with her, or if it is even her but rather her husband that’s the issue. It could be at the urging of her girlfriends. It might not be that she’s actively looking, just trying to figure things out.
> 
> That’s just as bad as actively looking to screw somebody though, because it still represents an affront to the concept of marriage and boundaries. But if she’s trying to figure things out rather than actively seeking sex, it might change how you approach her. Think about her. Because to her, it’s all about her, not the spouse, not the family. She’s wandering in a dissociative state. I’d something brings her out of that, everything changes.


So how exactly do I approach that, this was weeks ago I found out and brought it up. I've actively tried researching her mid life crisis and what to do to be an active part of it, to help her. But with the responses I receive it seems as she's just waiting around for the beginning of the year. I also stated weeks ago that I think that I was done, and she broke down in the thought that I was closing her off, that I was done and gone. So I can see it affects her, but apparently not in a way to get her to see the reality. It sometimes feels that she's in wonder land, that everything can just be hunky dory until she decides, but everyone's lives through this are affected with the answer hanging in the balance.


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## Dictum Veritas

travislandes63 said:


> So how exactly do I approach that.


Take away her safety net. Take yourself off the table as an option. You cannot control her nor change her, but you can both control and change yourself, but any coarse of action that enables or assists her current path is the wrong path.


----------



## Casual Observer

travislandes63 said:


> So how exactly do I approach that, this was weeks ago I found out and brought it up. I've actively tried researching her mid life crisis and what to do to be an active part of it, to help her. But with the responses I receive it seems as she's just waiting around for the beginning of the year. I also stated weeks ago that I think that I was done, and she broke down in the thought that I was closing her off, that I was done and gone. So I can see it affects her, but apparently not in a way to get her to see the reality. It sometimes feels that she's in wonder land, that everything can just be hunky dory until she decides, but everyone's lives through this are affected with the answer hanging in the balance.


I think you need to physically separate. Give her space to sink or swim. The only chance of saving your marriage, and it’s slim, is 100% dependent upon her coming to an epiphany, on her own. I don’t think she can get there without hitting bottom and you still care for her too much to want to allow that. You have to write her off, and decide if you’re still interested if she does work things out and decides she wants to come back. Wants to come back. Think about that. She’s already left. There is no downside to accepting that.

You’re wallowing around, thinking the ball is in her court. It’s not. You now have control.


----------



## statuscheck

travislandes63 said:


> Ok to somewhat wrap a few of your answers into on so I'm not individual getting things mixed up here. We were seniors when we got together, we had talked about having kids and big family because it was something she was used to, and I never had and it was something I wanted. Trouble at home for both of us caused us to move out early, get an apartment and things went from there. This was 2012. My oldest was born in Jan. Of 2014. We got married in Dec. Of the same year. I have beat the horse to death about the dating site and actively pursuing someone else. I told her if that's the road she wanted to go down then to leave, regardless Financials etc... I got really irritated about the whole thing and let some anger out. Yesterday she came home, was obviously upset so we talked again and got through some weeds of the matter. She feels the romantic connection is lost, or has faded. Wants to date and start over again. But she also says she knows everything about me so is it a waste of time. She also stated that maybe her reflection of the marriage is actually stemming from her own hatred for her body, and all her mental issues being tossed to the next best thing, not her, us. She doesn't want to lose the house we built, but neither of us could afford it separated, and I will stand my ground to not pay for it if we do divorce. Because it was our home, not just one of us. She also says that being at her girlfriends house made her feel the freedom to do whatever, drink, smoke etc... so with the statement she said it makes me realize that no matter the time or effort I put forth, she will always want that. The only way she will get it is to go our separate ways. She isn't actively looking to my knowledge for anyone, because she can't stand being naked by herself let alone in front of me, or a stranger. Maybe I'm wrong. I told her my thoughts and feelings, and will probably do so more today regarding this issue. I don't want it to pan out for 4 more months and still receive the same result. She tells me she runs through all the scenarios and there's no one clear path for her. She wants to focus on healing herself above all else.


Her self-absorption and the cosmetic surgery and all she seems to be aspiring to makes me want to tell you - please stop entertaining this idea that she is modest. 

She may have shame from past abuse, with unresolved trauma, but she doesn't sound modest. Please don't imagine she's modest. It also sounds like she's doing everything she can to make you pay for her past - her upbringing - without seeking to manage it herself - to heal and grow. 

She's on a train wreck path and is marshaling all of her resources (you) to get there as fast as possible.

And I'll repeat -- you seem like a caring person who has the maturity to dedicate himself to others' well-being.
Please let her go! Your poor kids. She must see them as barriers to her party life, not children who need a mom. 
She'll exploit that need. She's exploiting your continued faith in her. 
Someone like this will use the kids as props to support whatever narrative she can to pursue her self-indulgence. This woman only cares about herself. Sounds like you've tried everything. I'm agreeing with everyone else...let her go. 

Focus on being a family with yourself and your kids - providing the quality of life you've worked hard for already. 
Keep the house, for you and the kids, or another house; she can couch surf with her party buddies. Gross. 
You can salvage the good in your family for your kids and go from there.


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## Casual Observer

Dictum Veritas said:


> Take away her safety net. Take yourself off the table as an option. You cannot control her nor change her, but you can both control and change yourself, but any coarse of action that enables or assists her current path is the wrong path.


And not just for OP but his wife as well. Right now, caring about her is not caring for her.


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## re16

Your wife has acted in selfish and deceptive ways, repeatedly and intentionally, that hurt you and your family.

She is thinking only of herself, while you have been empathetic toward her.

The spouse that cares the least about the marriage has the power... which is why you went into limbo. When you tell her that you are ending it due to her behavior, you will care the least, and have the power.

Sell the house, divide assets fairly, take the high road during the process etc... but never be a plan B for anyone.


----------



## wmn1

travislandes63 said:


> Good morning yall, so to not write this out till the cows come home. My wife and I have been together going on 11 years, married for 8. We have 3 children together, bought a house a year ago, decent cars. Overall I've tried to provide everything for her, I've never once tried controlling the aspects of her life as far as appearance, or what interests her. Some say she's high maintenance, but to me if it made her happy then that's all that mattered. Here come last March she began school for cosmetology which has always been a dream, I pushed her to do so because it meant a lot and her previous jobs always made her hate working there. I've been working long hours to support us through this time. About a month ago she dropped the she's unsure about us, might want a divorce, she's unhappy, often thinks about if there's something else out there. We are both 28, we had our oldest at 19. I stepped up and continued to provide for our family and climbed the rigorous ladder to get to a place of financial stability. I'm no Saint and have done things in the past that have hurt her, but have always apologized and asked for forgiveness. This same situation happened three years ago, which she returned a month later and said it was stupid. This time however she wants even longer. She tells me she won't have a decision till she's out of school in January and has a job. I want to make this work, have offered to do anything by any means to make this work. But she just isn't sure. I try talking to her, and it's pointless almost, just running around the same bush. She states her actions should show that she's not out of the house, still communicates. But gives me no emotional indication that she wants to work. Some say I'm just getting strung along before a bomb drops in January, to get my things in order and be prepared for the worst. I love this woman whole heartedly. She means a great deal to me, but she's talking to other guys, found she has a dating app, hides her phone, has changed passwords. Where she has always had open access to everything of mine. I have my own issues to work on I get that, she says she's finding herself and what makes her happy, she's not focused on anyone or anything but that. But I'm torn internally I wanna wait and be patient to show her I'm here, I always have been. But another part of me doesn't want to wait, put effort into making things right with myself and her. If ultimately she's decided to leave regardless of what I can do to change things. She talks in what ifs and scenarios, the kids have noticed, they come to me scared and anxious of what may happen. I'm just kinda lost. I've reached out to numerous therapist's in the area, all are booked, or changing location currently. Can someone offer real guidance. Family and friends have all gave their input, most of which is all bad.
> Thank you



what is your problem ? You are letting her call all the shots and she's the one who is messed up. Stop the love and protect yourself. You are about to get screwed over. Your being lost is your fault because you don't stand up for yourself. Work on your self esteem


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## travislandes63

From a conversation we had today, that got heated. This sums up her thoughts, on paper I'm a good husband, but am I the right one for her she doesn't know. She's on a path of self discovery, can't nor won't have an answer till January do to the fact she'll have a job and won't be in school so she can rest assured that her decision comes from the thought she could support herself if worse comes to worse. She's not actively pursuing anyone other than herself. Along with shes doing this not to spite me or hurt me, that's it's been years building up, but she can't decide basically if it's her issues alone, or issues with the marriage. I've already talked to the kids and laid it out instead of it being some big surprise to them, of course only the oldest knows truly the problem at hand. I'll be in touch with the necessary people starting tomorrow.


----------



## Sfort

travislandes63 said:


> From a conversation we had today, that got heated. This sums up her thoughts, on paper I'm a good husband, but am I the right one for her she doesn't know. She's on a path of self discovery, can't nor won't have an answer till January do to the fact she'll have a job and won't be in school so she can rest assured that her decision comes from the thought she could support herself if worse comes to worse. She's not actively pursuing anyone other than herself. Along with shes doing this not to spite me or hurt me, that's it's been years building up, but she can't decide basically if it's her issues alone, or issues with the marriage. I've already talked to the kids and laid it out instead of it being some big surprise to them, of course only the oldest knows truly the problem at hand. I'll be in touch with the necessary people starting tomorrow.


What a load of bovine excrement.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

travislandes63 said:


> From a conversation we had today, that got heated. This sums up her thoughts, on paper I'm a good husband, but am I the right one for her she doesn't know. She's on a path of self discovery, can't nor won't have an answer till January do to the fact she'll have a job and won't be in school so she can rest assured that her decision comes from the thought she could support herself if worse comes to worse. She's not actively pursuing anyone other than herself. Along with shes doing this not to spite me or hurt me, that's it's been years building up, but she can't decide basically if it's her issues alone, or issues with the marriage. I've already talked to the kids and laid it out instead of it being some big surprise to them, of course only the oldest knows truly the problem at hand. I'll be in touch with the necessary people starting tomorrow.


Translation:
She wants to do whatever and whomever she wants and live the single life behind your back but have you waiting in the wings to clean up her crap should she fail to successfully find a new guy and monkey-branch.

I say if she wants to act single, make her single. Cut off all of the support you give to her now, all off it, financial and emotional, file for divorce and make her live the single life she wants as a single person.


----------



## DudeInProgress

travislandes63 said:


> From a conversation we had today, that got heated. This sums up her thoughts, on paper I'm a good husband, but am I the right one for her she doesn't know. She's on a path of self discovery, can't nor won't have an answer till January do to the fact she'll have a job and won't be in school so she can rest assured that her decision comes from the thought she could support herself if worse comes to worse. She's not actively pursuing anyone other than herself. Along with shes doing this not to spite me or hurt me, that's it's been years building up, but she can't decide basically if it's her issues alone, or issues with the marriage. I've already talked to the kids and laid it out instead of it being some big surprise to them, of course only the oldest knows truly the problem at hand. I'll be in touch with the necessary people starting tomorrow.


So does that mean that you’re going to stop operating in her frame, giving her full control of the fate of your marriage with you chasing along like a supplicating puppy - and that you’re actually finally going to take strong decisive action in your own best interest, like a man with dignity and self-respect?


----------



## farsidejunky

She is lying.

On some level, I think you know it, but you want a reason to talk yourself out of the hard path...the right path...so you convince yourself to believe her.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Casual Observer

farsidejunky said:


> She is lying.
> 
> On some level, I think you know it, but you want a reason to talk yourself out of the hard path...the right path...so you convince yourself to believe her.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


I don’t see where the correct response changes whether she’s lying or being truthful. Marriage is a commitment, and if you decide commitment is no longer supportable, then you’ve ended the marriage. You don’t get to go out and see what the real world is like, and see if the grass is greener or not, then decide to leave or stay. That’s not how it works.


----------



## Evinrude58

Finding oneself…….. nearly 99.9999 % Cheater speak for finding the nearest monkey branch and see if it holds.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

travislandes63 said:


> From a conversation we had today, that got heated. This sums up her thoughts, on paper I'm a good husband, but am I the right one for her she doesn't know. She's on a path of self discovery, can't nor won't have an answer till January do to the fact she'll have a job and won't be in school so she can rest assured that her decision comes from the thought she could support herself if worse comes to worse. She's not actively pursuing anyone other than herself. Along with shes doing this not to spite me or hurt me, that's it's been years building up, but she can't decide basically if it's her issues alone, or issues with the marriage. I've already talked to the kids and laid it out instead of it being some big surprise to them, of course only the oldest knows truly the problem at hand. I'll be in touch with the necessary people starting tomorrow.


Exactly what @Evinrude58 and others are saying.
When I read this I thought it hits every point for Cheater-speak.

But like @Casual Observer said...what does it matter? She's already breaking the marriage covenant and it's time to act like it. Take control of the situation and let her be single.


----------



## *Deidre*

travislandes63 said:


> From a conversation we had today, that got heated. This sums up her thoughts, on paper I'm a good husband, but am I the right one for her she doesn't know. She's on a path of self discovery, can't nor won't have an answer till January do to the fact she'll have a job and won't be in school so she can rest assured that her decision comes from the thought she could support herself if worse comes to worse. She's not actively pursuing anyone other than herself. Along with shes doing this not to spite me or hurt me, that's it's been years building up, but she can't decide basically if it's her issues alone, or issues with the marriage. I've already talked to the kids and laid it out instead of it being some big surprise to them, of course only the oldest knows truly the problem at hand. I'll be in touch with the necessary people starting tomorrow.


The necessary people being attorneys, yes?

Your wife can decide what to do with her life but you now need to decide what’s best for you. It’s really tough but to me, I’d be taking steps to move on. But be ready for her to be angry that you’re not just going along as you normally do.


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## re16

*Deidre* said:


> The necessary people being attorneys, yes?
> 
> Your wife can decide what to do with her life but you now need to decide what’s best for you. It’s really tough but to me, I’d be taking steps to move on. But be ready for her to be angry that you’re not just going along as you normally do.


Yep, there are lots of ways for her to "find herself" without dating others... so she is making marriage ending decisions... OP just needs to follow through on the decisions she made for their marriage already.


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## BigDaddyNY

travislandes63 said:


> So how exactly do I approach that, this was weeks ago I found out and brought it up. I've actively tried researching her mid life crisis and what to do to be an active part of it, to help her. But with the responses I receive it seems as she's just waiting around for the beginning of the year. I also stated weeks ago that I think that I was done, and she broke down in the thought that I was closing her off, that I was done and gone. So I can see it affects her, but apparently not in a way to get her to see the reality. It sometimes feels that she's in wonder land, that everything can just be hunky dory until she decides, but everyone's lives through this are affected with the answer hanging in the balance.


Translation: She isn't in love with you and thinks she can do better or has already found someone better. Really, it is just complete nonsense to string you along. Give her her freedom to find herself as a si gle woman ASAP.


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## re16

BigDaddyNY said:


> or has already found someone better


I have my money on this... there is someone she wants to test the waters with.


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## re16

travislandes63 said:


> on paper I'm a good husband


With what she is doing now, she is not a good wife on paper....


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## DudeInProgress

BigDaddyNY said:


> Translation: She isn't in love with you and thinks she can do better or has already found someone better. Really, it is just complete nonsense to string you along. Give her her freedom to find herself as a si gle woman ASAP.


So far, it doesn’t look like he has the strength or self-respect to take the appropriate action.

He keeps liking all the posts like this, but then continues to do nothing, other than keep rehashing and overanalyzing the same conversations that we’ve already translated for him.


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## Jimi007

re16 said:


> I have my money on this... there is someone she wants to test the waters with.


Sounds like re16 hit the nail squarely on the head....She already has a dating app on her phone , probably also snap chat (the cheater app ) and what's app....
I know that you don't want to hear it...it sucks


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## *Deidre*

I can think of worse things in life than leaving a lying cheater, OP. It may be inconvenient, and it may hurt...but it will hurt way worse if you stay with her, because she's just using you at this point as a back up in case all of her ''self discovery'' plans fall apart.


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## travislandes63

DudeInProgress said:


> So far, it doesn’t look like he has the strength or self-respect to take the appropriate action.
> 
> He keeps liking all the posts like this, but then continues to do nothing, other than keep rehashing and overanalyzing the same conversations that we’ve already translated for him.


I'm already in contact with a lawyer, and have essentially cut her off. Usually I have played the waiting game to see if I'm on her mind she would usually text me or something asking about my day and such. Nothing today, so I'm pretty well with everything has come to an end. She keeps rehashing that there isn't anyone, that she would delete tinder, that she primarily focused on her. I had made plans for a date on Oct. 8th. Might get everything together and lay it out to her that evening. She keeps throwing it out that if she wanted to leave she has options, but chooses to stay at the house, to be around me and the kids. It could also be smoke and mirrors that she doesn't indeed have somewhere to go so if I lose it she's screwed. I already mentioned to her that I'm on the fence and it was a light switch it seemed to her that now I've contemplated it as well so maybe that's scared her. Not sure could be the exact opposite. But you all are correct in the idea that I feel we keep "rehashing" the same stuff and get no answers out of it. It's all what if scenarios, although today she shared a post on Facebook about co parenting, so I'm gonna go either worst case scenario for all of it. But I will say it hurts a lot, but my kids comforted me last night after the ordeal. She says that getting high, and drinking are her only ways of letting all the thoughts go. She also doesn't want to lose "her" house, or if she goes she'll never be able to return. Which she is very on point with that realization.


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## re16

If she has options on somewhere else to stay, take her up on that.

It will likely look much better for you in the divorce if she moves out.


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## DudeInProgress

travislandes63 said:


> I'm already in contact with a lawyer, and have essentially cut her off. Usually I have played the waiting game to see if I'm on her mind she would usually text me or something asking about my day and such. Nothing today, so I'm pretty well with everything has come to an end. She keeps rehashing that there isn't anyone, that she would delete tinder, that she primarily focused on her. I had made plans for a date on Oct. 8th. Might get everything together and lay it out to her that evening. She keeps throwing it out that if she wanted to leave she has options, but chooses to stay at the house, to be around me and the kids. It could also be smoke and mirrors that she doesn't indeed have somewhere to go so if I lose it she's screwed. I already mentioned to her that I'm on the fence and it was a light switch it seemed to her that now I've contemplated it as well so maybe that's scared her. Not sure could be the exact opposite. But you all are correct in the idea that I feel we keep "rehashing" the same stuff and get no answers out of it. It's all what if scenarios, although today she shared a post on Facebook about co parenting, so I'm gonna go either worst case scenario for all of it. But I will say it hurts a lot, but my kids comforted me last night after the ordeal. She says that getting high, and drinking are her only ways of letting all the thoughts go. She also doesn't want to lose "her" house, or if she goes she'll never be able to return. Which she is very on point with that realization.


1. Contacting a lawyer is not taking action, it’s just research. And it’s something you should’ve done months ago if not sooner.
2. So basically you’re not going to DO anything for another two weeks, at which time you’re going to have another “conversation“ with her, where presumably you might start to begin the process of putting your foot down, maybe…


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## uwe.blab

travislandes63 said:


> I never said I was ok with it. I brought it up because I friend from work has the same app, and found her in there. She stated to me that it was the girls from school trying to boost her co fidence and such. Which maybe that's true, who knows. I brought it up again a few days later and she had told me she isn't actively looking for anyone, or rushing anything. Which could also be interpreted as she's just patiently waiting for income taxes and to have her career set up. Some of you come across to me that I've had no emotion in this, no anger, or sadness. The day she threw divorce out in argument and got in my face about it, I showed her a fire in me that had her sit down and actually listen to my words, instead of talking over me and showing her dominance in conversation. I have a relatively long fuse in situations, I also feel I'm a very active participant when speaking, but no man or woman will raise their voice and belittle me. I made that evidently clear. Do I have any evidence other then a screenshot from a friend of the dating app, no. Do I know what conversations are had no. Do I really care to know probably not. I do know this, last weekend she took off for 2.5 hours. Sat at a casino parking lot, read some self help books, and then proceeded to call me balling her eyes out that she has no idea what's going on, or what's really happening. She can't pinpoint if what she feels stems from an unhappy life and marriage, or is solely something within her. She has also stated before that what if she tries to see if the grass is greener on the other side and can't come back at all, or is happy over there. I told her this, the grass can be green where ever you water it.


Did it feel good for your wife to assure you that she isn't actively looking for someone? (Even though she was lying....)


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## uwe.blab

travislandes63 said:


> From a conversation we had today, that got heated. This sums up her thoughts, on paper I'm a good husband, but am I the right one for her she doesn't know. She's on a path of self discovery, can't nor won't have an answer till January do to the fact she'll have a job and won't be in school so she can rest assured that her decision comes from the thought she could support herself if worse comes to worse. She's not actively pursuing anyone other than herself. Along with shes doing this not to spite me or hurt me, that's it's been years building up, but she can't decide basically if it's her issues alone, or issues with the marriage. I've already talked to the kids and laid it out instead of it being some big surprise to them, of course only the oldest knows truly the problem at hand. I'll be in touch with the necessary people starting tomorrow.


All the things she is saying to you.....do not matter. Why are you listening? It's all nonsense. She wants to move out and is trying to meet other guys. That is what you should be hearing. Everything else is noise and deflection.


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## Evinrude58

I’m glad to hear she’s gonna delete tinder.
Come on man. She’s not leaving you for another man. She’s leaving you so she can get high, drink, and chase other MEN….

what a peach. You should have seen an attorney and filed. As said, you haven’t taken any action. What are you waiting on?


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## Casual Observer

travislandes63 said:


> But I will say it hurts a lot, but my kids comforted me last night after the ordeal. She says that getting high, and drinking are her only ways of letting all the thoughts go.


Please @travislandes63 , re-read what you wrote here. This is not someone fit to be a parent. Leaving the kids in her care is simply irresponsible. People who feel their only options for escape are from drinking and getting high are not in control. Your kids are at risk.

Thank your "wife" for her clarity and let her know that you can't feed whatever it is inside her that has such destructive potential. You cannot provide what she's looking for. You and the kids need distance from her, more than she needs distance from you. It could even be that she recognizes how far gone she is, what a danger she presents to her family.

And you better believe she's going to have moments of mental (not just physical) near-sobriety in which she recognizes what she's done and wants to come back, doesn't understand how you can't still love her and all sorts of other stuff that will have you crying inside like a baby. 

Your kids shouldn't be around to watch this. They can't understand why a mother would put herself ahead of them to the point of exclusion. She is very ill and maybe she'll hit bottom before she becomes unrecognizable, maybe she'll never hit bottom.

Co-parenting isn't going to work, but you know that. She'll be drunk or high, or you'll suspect she could get that way and not dare leave the kids with her. 

You can't help her. She has to break from all the familiar surroundings, all the support systems that have allowed her to lose so much and still feel like there's a safety net. And who knows, 5 years down the road, more likely 10+, you might see an entirely different person, responsible, able to get by on her own. That person may be married to someone else by then, possibly have a new family. She won't be there for you. Your kids might be able to reconnect with her again. I hope so. It may sadden you, but try not to build resentment. Bitterness won't help you, and the kids should give their mom a chance someday.


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## SunCMars

travislandes63 said:


> I understand, she has a very hard time seeing herself naked let alone in front of me, or a complete stranger. Not to say maybe she's gotten a wild hair up her ass could also be a case. But I can also see her not, maybe I'm still blind to the matter.


You may not know this, this is key. Her not wanting to get naked in front of you may be because she hates the thought of you _leering and pawing_ at her.
Maybe, her skin crawls, thinking about it.

She resents you, for keeping her prisoner (in her mind).

Ugh.

This one is ready to launch, ready to fly into some other man's arms.
Other men's arms.

It is clear.

She probably has a man lined up already.
Few women can have t_ruly close relations_ with more than one man at a time.

Yes, those shallow women who have had a lot of dating experience, often can juggle three or four sets of balls at a time!

That is not your wife, yet...


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## travislandes63

SunCMars said:


> You may not know this, this is key. Her not wanting to get naked in front of you may be because she hates the thought of you _leering and pawing_ at her.
> Maybe, her skin crawls, thinking about it.
> 
> She resents you, for keeping her prisoner (in her mind).
> 
> Ugh.
> 
> This one is ready to launch, ready to fly into some other man's arms.
> Other men's arms.
> 
> It is clear.
> 
> She probably has a man lined up already.
> Few women can have t_ruly close relations_ with more than one man at a time.
> 
> Yes, those shallow women who have had a lot of dating experience, often can juggle three or four sets of balls at a time!
> 
> That is not your wife, yet...


Well I will say, she states that she doesn't want too, but will still take showers etc... and come in the bedroom for a chance of clothes and has no obvious bitter taste in her mouth from me seeing her naked. She's dealt with body image issues since even before we got together. But I've always told her that it doesn't bother me in the slightest, she's a mother of 3 things will change. But I wasn't in this for some model to be walking around. She has changed quite a bit in the last month, she's gotten to the point she will show her phone sometimes to me to show she's not ignoring me or messaging anyone, just scrolling through her many tabs of window shopping from various stores online. She's never been one to make dramatic change, hates change actually. From job to job etc... can I see some of what she talks about, it's possible. But I was a firm believer in choosing her to spend my days with. Although here within the last couple days, I don't talk to her unless she starts a conversation I just go about my day as usual, preoccuping my time with various tasks, and making sure the kids are having a ball playing etc... if she wants a marriage with me then she'll show me. Otherwise I've come to terms with this is possibly the end, and I'll move on.


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## Marc878

So muffin says she’s not pursuing anyone. I hate to tell you but people lie. Go online and check you phone bill.
Stop being naive and gullible.
Let her go. Shes already gone anyway.


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## Marc878

Limbo is a self imposed state. You need to wake up to reality. Cut off contact or linger in hell.


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