# Sexless though not loveless



## throughtorment (Jan 2, 2021)

I'll be as brief as possible, as I have read so many posts with too many details. 
We are a professional couple, m52, f48, not our first marriage, one child each who are older and out of the house. Married 4 years, and everything regarding our relationship has been easy. No money issues, both independent hobbies, travel frequently, rarely argue if ever. 
Having had bad relationships, we started being honest and open when meeting 7 years ago. 
Very sexual beginning of the relationship, playful, fun and extremely frequent. Both open about past experiences (nothing overly detailed, just honest and freeing)
Over time in any relationship, details get shared, and I never ask and pry, as I was formerly quite insecure, but got my act together prior to being with my wife. 

Anyway, sex went from a few times a week to a few times a month, to 5 times in 2020. Nearly every time in the last 3 years have been preceeded by wife drinking, enough to be affected and when she drinks, gets very flirty and direct. To be upfront, I am the spouse that cooks gourmet meals each night (unless we go out), does laundry, surprises with small gifts/date night, etc. not to get in her pants, but merely because I like to. My wife has put on a bit of weight, but I tell her how sexy she is, which I truly feel. She has started pre-menopause, and we had purchased products (lube and such) and I am always understanding. 
A month after having birthday sex, we fought. I emotionally said that I want to be desired, wanted like I once was, not simply accommodated once every 3 or 4 months. She got mad and said sex isn't important as i have her love instead. Then tells me that before I came along (she cheated a lot on her ex husband, which I had known) she had so much sex (some MMF, FMF, group) that she was tired of giving whatever others wanted and that she could live without it totally at this point.
I won't cheat, I'll leave first, BUT, everything about our relationship is so fulfilling besides this. We hold hands, kiss, she wears clothes that I like, does this for me, just doesn't want me sexually. I am losing weight, going to the gym. I just don't know if I can reignite her desire. I am happy, content, yet lonely, disconnected, and quiet. 

Any thoughts?? I'd love to hear an older women's point of view. 
Thanks


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

about all you can do after her telling you she could live without it and as tired of doing what other people want her to do is just let her know that you can't live without it although you care very much about her. I suppose it is possible that her weight gain has made herself conscious but you would know that best and it doesn't really sound like it since she's dressing nice and that sort of thing.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm a female. I'm your age.

She isn't interested in sex. I don't think you will get her interested in sex. And more importantly, she doesn't sound like she cares to work on the issue or cares that she has left you with a completely unsatisfying and lonely intimate life.

Me, I'd leave the marriage. Is this how you want to spend your last few decades of life?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Order some cases of champagne or sparkling wine if she drinks that? It won’t help with the weight (quite the opposite) but it sounds like it might help in the desire department.

Seriously it sounds like you’re already doing the right stuff. Does she know that ultimately if she doesn’t try with you you’re going to leave?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Similar situation here, including multiple seemingly sincere declarations she doesn’t care to have sex with anyone ever again, and the long standing use of alcohol to make having sex “possible” for her.

Experience has mostly been a series of decrements in frequency, with her seemingly more comfortable refusing to engage in any way on addressing causes behind the desire differences.

Enduring this sort of thing can take a toll on one’s mental and physical health, and one can become so disconnected from more fulfilling choices that passive resignation sets in.

My advice is don’t expect her desire for sex to increase naturally.

If she would want to provide you sexual intimacy because she loves you and your needs matter to her — would that work for you? If she follows through frequently on that would it be fulfilling for you? What if it works out to only a few times a year, despite suggesting she “intends to” be intimate more frequently?

Would it be meaningful to you if she sought ways to increase her desire (eg, hormone treatment)? What would it mean if she didn’t bother to seek interventions, or said she would but never got around to it?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

throughtorment said:


> Then tells me that before I came along (she cheated a lot on her ex husband, which I had known) she had so much sex (some MMF, FMF, group) that *she was tired of giving whatever others wanted and that she could live without it totally at this point*.


Maybe you could suggest she sees a therapist about this? I don't see many other options. And maybe pre-menopause is also having an effect on her libido? All in all, it sounds like something very deep-rooted to me, which might be difficult to solve.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

throughtorment said:


> To be upfront, I am the spouse that cooks gourmet meals each night (unless we go out), does laundry, surprises with small gifts/date night, etc. not to get in her pants, but merely because I like to.


sounds like she is slacking in ALL things related to family life. She has grown way too cozy being worshiped like a queen.

Why are you doing all that? Have her start pulling her own weight. and that includes putting out.
if she hates getting laid, she can make up the frequency with oral sex


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm a 46 year old woman and the weight could be a big factor. Many men don't realize how much a woman's body image factors into her sex drive, particularly as she gets older.

Men are more forgiving and often desire their wife/gf anyway so they don't understand how big of an issue it is. I'm an endurance athlete (think triathlons and competitive running) and I always feel friskier when I'm in better shape. The effects are both mental and physical.

But premenopause also affects different women differently. I'm also in premenopause but my sex drive, while it does fluctuate a bit around my hormones, is quite good. I'm good for a few tines a week on average.

It could pass with her as menopause runs its course but it could take a while and it may not. 

I'm troubled that she doesn't at least desire the bonding experience. Have you told her that you miss bonding with sex? She values love but sexual bonding helps create love?

Ultimately you may just have to decide what you can live with. Getting older does all kinds of things to people physically....we women have to deal with performance issues in men....but at least with someone who recognizes the importance of sex is someone you can work with.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

throughtorment said:


> I'll be as brief as possible, as I have read so many posts with too many details.
> We are a professional couple, m52, f48, not our first marriage, one child each who are older and out of the house. Married 4 years, and everything regarding our relationship has been easy. No money issues, both independent hobbies, travel frequently, rarely argue if ever.
> Having had bad relationships, we started being honest and open when meeting 7 years ago.
> Very sexual beginning of the relationship, playful, fun and extremely frequent. Both open about past experiences (nothing overly detailed, just honest and freeing)
> ...


Therapy. You guys need it. Marriage counselor, relationship counselor, something. Given her past with open, I am going to point Touch of Flavor as a jumping point. They won't be judgmental of such a past, and will have an understanding on how it has affected her.

Also check out the book on love languages. I forget the title, but if someone hasn't mentioned it already, it's sure to come up. It sounds like yours are very different from each other.

It's obvious here, to me, that the lack of sex, in and of itself is not the issue. Your desire to be desired is key. While open (which is not the same as cheating since it happens with the knowledge and consent of all involved) could be a solution for the physical aspect, your issue isn't limited to that. You need, so it seems to me, that emotional aspect to the act.

The problem is what are her needs as well? Does she even have sexual attraction to you, or anyone really? Or has she only been doing sex for those in her life? I'm pretty sure that there will be those who are going to claim (if they haven't already), that given her past, she's cheating on you. But unless you have some kind of indicator of such, don't follow that path. Even just looking for cheating with no real signs of it undermines trust on both sides.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm a 46 year old woman and the weight could be a big factor. Many men don't realize how much a woman's body image factors into her sex drive, particularly as she gets older.
> 
> Men are more forgiving and often desire their wife/gf anyway so they don't understand how big of an issue it is.


yes, my wife kind of doubled in size since we started dating. Never mattered to me. Lately, when we she said she didn't want sex anymore, she then backtracked a bit, saying "maybe when I lose the weight"... I knew it was no sex for me any more...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> yes, my wife kind of doubled in size since we started dating. Never mattered to me. Lately, when we she said she didn't want sex anymore, she then backtracked a bit, saying "maybe when I lose the weight"... I knew it was no sex for me any more...


It's very tough to deal with because weight loss is hard, and you poor guys can't win. If you tell her she's still sexy she doesn't believe you, but if you agree that she should lose weight you're a jerk.

Men are wired differently....most can gain some weight and still want sex.


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## Totally T (Dec 20, 2020)

To be honest here. This why I'm skeptical of people having many sexual partners and experiences.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

The Mighty Fred said:


> To be honest here. This why I'm skeptical of people having many sexual partners and experiences.


As in you are skeptical that they have had many sexual partners and experiences?

Or do you think that having many sexual partners and experiences is a bad thing?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's very tough to deal with because weight loss is hard, and you poor guys can't win. If you tell her she's still sexy she doesn't believe you, but if you agree that she should lose weight you're a jerk.


Absolutely this...


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

The Mighty Fred said:


> To be honest here. This why I'm skeptical of people having many sexual partners and experiences.


Seems rather non sequitur. Elaborate?

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## throughtorment (Jan 2, 2021)

thanks for replies. No cc, I haven't spelled it out yet so clearly, possibly that's the next conversation.
There's so much good in the relationship.
I make the analogy by twisting it around. i.e. if I was the one who didn't want intimacy, ED, or something, I would certainly work up my oral game, toys, and work hard at those, not just say, "Too bad" and that I've already 'been there done that


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## throughtorment (Jan 2, 2021)

As far as therapy, I'm not sure that's the route I want to take. Though I don't think it would hurt, our outside the bedroom relationship is fantastic, communicative, calm. I am not looking for negotiated, compromised desire. 
I deserve the fervor she had at the beginning and certainly before me. I wonder if comfortability and safety kills female desire. Perhaps unsafe, crazy, wild, experimental along with UNKNOWN generates true libido for women.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I dunno....I don't think it's coming back(her desire or want for you in a sexual manner)...I could be wrong, of course, just a hunch.......

If everything else is good and you are otherwise content, then there really is only a couple of options...

-Leave her...you don't have any real "legacy" with this woman in the sense of a long term deal with kids and all...And because of the financial independence on both sides and no kids, this is about as easy of a split as you can have...You could probably do it with a form of LegalZoom and call it a day..

-Just hang in and deal with it....As a 52 year old guy, you could also be of the mindset that your desire and performance capabilities could tank any day, then you both can grow old as a sexless couple like millions do, but then there is always the possibility that you won't lose that drive or performance....so there is always the risk there...

-Get what you need on the side...I know you said you wouldn't cheat, but just to add, there are a number of guys I know in your age range that are doing this...They may have an escort or get some sex from sex workers, another I know has a long term AP that is perfectly content to be in the situation he wants...While it's possible there are women who because they knowingly checked out, actually don't care what their men do, as long as they keep it on the down low, they aren't that common and who knows what the wife in this scenario will think about it,,,, But yeah...all kinds of potential drama with this option...

My feeling is the best option would be to leave her....you can remain as friends and continue a relationship on some level, but it's probably asking a lot of a guy to give that up for the rest of your life...I'd have to do something about it....02

Good luck


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

@throughtorment if you haven’t already you should definitely branch out and check out resources outside the forum. I found the male-oriented self-help books to be of some use and even though you’re on that path already it might be worth checking out something like, “The Married Man’s Sex Life Primer” by Athol Kay.

Other books will give you some insight as to the reasons why but they’re mostly helpful for the LD (low desire or sexual distancer) partner. I read them anyway as much as I could stand. Standard references would be stuff like “Come As You Are” Emily Nagoski, “When Your Sex Drives Don’t Match” Sandra Pertot, they go on and on. Podcasts like Foreplay go a lot into sexual pursuer and distancer and the therapist on that show has also written book(s).

If you can get your wife to understand that the lack of sex will literally kill your relationship to the point of divorce that was the turning point for getting the ball rolling (for me). Of course when you have that discussion depending on your wife she may just take you up on the option to separate so you need to be ok with that.

You should check out the sidebar on deadbedrooms subreddit and look for posts on “the talk”. I didn’t do this before I had the talk but in researching afterwards there are good ideas in there.

One other thing, some men’s advice will say not to have the talk. Or have the talk only once. Not having the talk is poor advice if you actually care for your wife like it seems you do. Look at the history of a lot of these authors and they’re guys who ended up getting divorced.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

throughtorment said:


> Anyway, sex went from a few times a week to a few times a month, to 5 times in 2020. Nearly every time in the last 3 years have been preceeded by wife drinking, enough to be affected and when she drinks, gets very flirty and direct.


Being tense/stressed is a libido inhibitor. Drinking lowers inhibitions and relaxes the mind and body. 

If you're not a fan of drinking regularly has she tried marijuana? If it's legal where you are, of course. 😎 I personally prefer it to alcohol. The buzz is better, lasts longer, and no hangover. 



throughtorment said:


> My wife has put on a bit of weight, but I tell her how sexy she is, which I truly feel.


We're men are visual and fat is visually unappealing, full stop. This means we assume a few extra pounds makes us Quasimodo to the visual male.

Extra weight has very real effects on hormone levels. Fat stores estrogen. Too much estrogen in women causes 

bloating.
swelling and tenderness in breasts.
fibrocystic lumps in breasts.
*decreased sex drive.*
irregular menstrual periods.
increased symptoms of premenstrual syndrome (PMS)
mood swings.
headaches.
And more!


Heavier gals report that, depending on position, too much extra weight causes pain in the back, knees, and/or hips. 

The weight may be interfering with her ability to become aroused physically, causing her awkwardness or discomfort during the act, and making her feel as attractive as a garden slug on top of it.



throughtorment said:


> She has started pre-menopause, and we had purchased products (lube and such) and I am always understanding.


Humans truly are chemical engines. Our hormones even influence how we think and what we think about. If her hormones are out of whack she's not going to be thinking about or wanting sex. Perimenopause is a time of hormone fluctuation. Increased or decreased sex drive is to be expected.



throughtorment said:


> She got mad and said sex isn't important as i have her love instead.


At this stage of her life sex may very well be unimportant to her. If your body didn't want sexual release how important do you think sex would be to you?



throughtorment said:


> (she cheated a lot on her ex husband, which I had known) she had so much sex (some MMF, FMF, group) that she was tired of giving whatever others wanted and that she could live without it totally at this point.


Has she talked to a therapist about this? People who have sex to please others or who commit certain sexual acts to please others can accidentally cause themselves to become sexually averse.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I used to have this problem. I don’t anymore. There is truly only one way out of it that is foolproof and guaranteed to work.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

RebuildingMe said:


> I used to have this problem. I don’t anymore. There is truly only one way out of it that is foolproof and guaranteed to work.


I think you’re right. That has to be on the table, because if plan A doesn’t work then it’s your guaranteed plan B.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> I used to have this problem. I don’t anymore. There is truly only one way out of it that is foolproof and guaranteed to work.


which is? I'm pretty sure I read it in the past somewhere, but I'm too lazy to dig it out...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ask her if she has talked to a gynecologist about this. Not obstetrician because they focus on having babies and fertility but a gynecologist who is up to date on hormones and cares about it. It could be at least partially hormonal. I would just start with asking her she's talked to one about it in case she needs to get a hormone panel and find out if her hormones are low. Lots of people take hormones post-menopause and even premenopause and I'm one of those people who has always taken them. They're not miracle workers but they certainly figure in. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who resist hormones, even though all their excuses are moot now because there are all kinds of hormones and there's not really a risk to a lot of them. They have what's called bioidenticals at certain clinics that are absorbed through the skin and patches and all sorts of things. I've been on regular pill hormones that everyone is afraid of for most of my life.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If you want to keep the relationship, ask her if it's okay if you outsource the sex. That's may be the only way you'll enjoy both.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

throughtorment said:


> She got mad and said sex isn't important as i have her love instead.


Given that sex isn't important to her, you should now feel free to have sex with others as you please.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> which is? I'm pretty sure I read it in the past somewhere, but I'm too lazy to dig it out...


You KNOW what it is...you just won't use it to escape and be happy...!


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## Totally T (Dec 20, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> Seems rather non sequitur. Elaborate?
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


The emotional bonding gets numbed down especially for women.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> If you want to keep the relationship, ask her if it's okay if you outsource the sex. That's may be the only way you'll enjoy both.


I'm not usually a fan of this approach because I find it somewhat manipulative, but given that she's said that sex doesn't equal love you might ask her in the abstract if she feels its ok to get it elsewhere since it has nothing to do with love according to her.

It is a logical conclusion of her argument.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

throughtorment said:


> As far as therapy, I'm not sure that's the route I want to take. Though I don't think it would hurt, our outside the bedroom relationship is fantastic, communicative, calm. I am not looking for negotiated, compromised desire.
> I deserve the fervor she had at the beginning and certainly before me. I wonder if comfortability and safety kills female desire. Perhaps unsafe, crazy, wild, experimental along with UNKNOWN generates true libido for women.


You don't necessarily need aid for the whole marriage. This is a problem area for you two. You need help navigating it. You don't try to fix the steering on a car if you only have a flat. On the other hand for you, this could be equivalent to the heater not working. It makes you uncomfortable, but the car itself still works.

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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> You don't necessarily need aid for the whole marriage. This is a problem area for you two. You need help navigating it. You don't try to fix the steering on a car if you only have a flat. On the other hand for you, this could be equivalent to the heater not working. It makes you uncomfortable, but the car itself still works.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


BRILLIANT!!!!!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What is strange to me is that the alcohol gets her going. I would think if she had no sex drive......

I say get her drunk about once a week....

Sounds like menopause killed her sex drive.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> What is strange to me is that the alcohol gets her going. I would think if she had no sex drive......
> 
> I say get her drunk about once a week....
> 
> Sounds like menopause killed her sex drive.



Menopause and body image issues.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

throughtorment said:


> A month after having birthday sex, we fought. I emotionally said that I want to be desired, wanted like I once was, not simply accommodated once every 3 or 4 months. *She got mad and said sex isn't important as i have her love instead. Then tells me that before I came along (she cheated a lot on her ex husband, which I had known) she had so much sex (some MMF, FMF, group) that she was tired of giving whatever others wanted and that she could live without it totally at this point.*
> I won't cheat, I'll leave first,


She got mad. Why do you think she told you what she did? 

A real appropriate response at the time would have been to calmly asked her why she said the things she did. Did she want to hurt you, make you disgusted with her, or give you an ultimatum. Is this feeling of being tired of giving what others wanted new or is it something that she felt when the two of you dated? You might want to think about that a while and after you have, since you have such great communications skills with her as her what she was really trying to tell you.



throughtorment said:


> As far as *therapy, I'm not sure that's the route I want to take.* Though I don't think it would hurt, our outside the bedroom *relationship is fantastic, communicative, calm. I am not looking for negotiated, compromised desire.*
> I deserve the fervor she had at the beginning and certainly before me. I wonder *if comfortability and safety kills female desire*. Perhaps unsafe, crazy, wild, experimental along with UNKNOWN generates true libido for women.


Actually, I was in a somewhat similar situation just before my wife turned 60. A sex therapist saved our marriage as it go my wife to focus on how important sexual intimacy and bonding are to my definition of marriage.

Since you are not looking for negotiated compromised desire, I agree that a sex therapist would be a waste of money. In fact you probably should move on and divorce her, if that is how you truly feel. You can't change your wife, only she can change herself if she wants to change. So the question for you is if you want to have a marriage that includes the kind of sexual desire you want, what (or who) can be the change agent that will make your wife want to change how she views you and your marriage. In my case a sex therapist was able to do that, but it did end up as a negotiated frequency of intimate sexual bonding (twice a week) that we could both live with. My wife wants the marriage to succeed so she is the one who is responsible for initiating sex twice a week.

Now as to comfort killing sexual desire, you might want to read Ester Perel's Mating in Captivity.

Good luck, I don't think you are leaving yourself many options, based on your post. I also think you may be misguided in your believe that you have a fantastic marriage outside the bedroom.

Oh, and P.S. if you do marriage counseling or sex therapy, don't be surprised if you have to do some changing on your part to get the sexual desire you want.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"*Then tells me that before I came along (she cheated a lot on her ex husband, which I had known) she had so much sex (some MMF, FMF, group) that she was tired of giving whatever others wanted and that she could live without it totally at this point.* "
IF she did this before you, then it looks to me like sex to her is just a thing to do and not really having emotions tied to it, so if you take the approach with her that you need it for emotional closeness, I have a feeling THAT argument will fall completely flat since she doesn't view it that way at ALL.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I don't think you can assume her statement was about her having a lot of sex with different people necessarily, not that I have a problem with that as long as it's not cheating. I think she just means she's tired of having to be the one to keep the partner sexually happy when she wants less sex and they want more, and I think this is a very common plight. 

Unfortunately, now she doesn't want any. So that's a game changer.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't think you can assume her statement was about her having a lot of sex with different people necessarily, not that I have a problem with that as long as it's not cheating. I think she just means she's tired of having to be the one to keep the partner sexually happy when she wants less sex and they want more, and I think this is a very common plight.
> 
> Unfortunately, now she doesn't want any. So that's a game changer.


can't tell as I wasn't in on the convo, but THIS sounds pretty clear to me: "*she had so much sex (some MMF, FMF, group)* "


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

throughtorment said:


> We hold hands, kiss, she wears clothes that I like, does this for me, just doesn't want me sexually. I am losing weight, going to the gym. I just don't know if I can reignite her desire.


Same situation here. I love her, find her sexually attractive, and she is otherwise a good wife.

You cannot "reignite" her desire. That is something only she can do, and she is completely disinterested.



throughtorment said:


> Then tells me that before I came along (she cheated a lot on her ex husband, which I had known) _she had so much sex_ (some MMF, FMF, group) that she was tired of giving whatever others wanted and that she could live without it totally at this point.


My wife is disinterested in me sexually because similarly to your wife, she had other men in her past who she desired more and who had better physical attributes than me. The unfortunate reason she married me was that none of these men could support her financially and provide security for her. Security was far more important TO HER than sex. It still is. Will always be. I have just accepted that I must remain relatively sexless and get a "pity screw" once in a while. 

For me, a divorce is simply not worth it, in terms of financial losses and emotional hurts.

I don't know if your wife feels any of these things. Some reading for you about "alpha widow" may show up some of the reasons.

*ALPHA WIDOW*



MJJEAN said:


> If your body didn't want sexual release how important do you think sex would be to you?


I don't want to "hijack" - but want to respond briefly.

I am frequently, due to diabetes, peripheral artery disease, and advanced age (68) sometimes unable to obtain erections and/or sexual release. However, I still love to feel her body, kiss her, hold her, and give her sexual release. It makes me feel like a little more of a man .....


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

At the end of the day sex just means different things to different people. Some people see it as a bonding experience, some see it as a physical release and means of excitement, while others see it as something to put up with to make others happy.

This is why I never cared for a sexually promiscuous partner. While I'm fine with a past....we all have them and at this point in life I at least want someone who half way knows what they're doing.....a guy with a ton of partners before me likely doesn't view sex the same way I do. That's totally fine and no judgement is intended....it's just different. There's no possible way one can bond with a ton of partners and I see it as a bonding experience. I love feeling my partner's skin and I get physical pleasure out of the closeness.

Your wife doesn't....she sees it as something to put up with. It doesn't make much sense to me that one who thinks like this would give it to various yahoos but not to the guy that married them, but that's what it is. Maybe she feels like her husband should accept who she is.

That would be a reasonable argument if she'd made this clear and you married her with your eyes open but it doesn't seem like that's the case.

So you're at a crossroads....you have different and conflicting views of marriage. You can either live with no sex, find it elsewhere (risky because eventually you'll bond with someone else) or you can tell your wife that you see marriage differently and you aren't compatible.

What option do you wish to take? If you walk she may try to throw enough sex at you to shut you up but shut up sex is pretty unfulfilling.

Incompatibilitiy when you generally get along is hard to accept. I know because I had to accept it with my ex.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> At the end of the day sex just means different things to different people. Some people see it as a bonding experience, some see it as a physical release and means of excitement, while others see it as something to put up with to make others happy.
> 
> This is why I never cared for a sexually promiscuous partner. While I'm fine with a past....we all have them and at this point in life I at least want someone who half way knows what they're doing.....a guy with a ton of partners before me likely doesn't view sex the same way I do. That's totally fine and no judgement is intended....it's just different. There's no possible way one can bond with a ton of partners and I see it as a bonding experience. I love feeling my partner's skin and I get physical pleasure out of the closeness.
> 
> ...


Yep...reduction to roommate sucks and it will eventually break you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## throughtorment (Jan 2, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> At the end of the day sex just means different things to different people. Some people see it as a bonding experience, some see it as a physical release and means of excitement, while others see it as something to put up with to make others happy.
> 
> This is why I never cared for a sexually promiscuous partner. While I'm fine with a past....we all have them and at this point in life I at least want someone who half way knows what they're doing.....a guy with a ton of partners before me likely doesn't view sex the same way I do. That's totally fine and no judgement is intended....it's just different. There's no possible way one can bond with a ton of partners and I see it as a bonding experience. I love feeling my partner's skin and I get physical pleasure out of the closeness.
> 
> ...


I agree
I see as it (even if it's kinky, as at least that shows I trust someone enough to experience it openly) as bonding in a way that is difficult through any other means.

Also, we DID have this part of our relationship perfected (so I thought) and shared lots of role playing, toys and such and she was honestly enthusiastic and satisfied. As she put weight on, started pre-menopause, everything dwindled.
The shocking part is her attitude toward me. THAT'S sudden.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

throughtorment said:


> I agree
> I see as it (even if it's kinky, as at least that shows I trust someone enough to experience it openly) as bonding in a way that is difficult through any other means.
> 
> Also, we DID have this part of our relationship perfected (so I thought) and shared lots of role playing, toys and such and she was honestly enthusiastic and satisfied. As she put weight on, started pre-menopause, everything dwindled.
> The shocking part is her attitude toward me. THAT'S sudden.


Well then maybe there is hope.

You still have to tell her that you love her and are willing to work with her as far as menopause/weight gain are concerned, but you are not going to remain in a sexless marriage. Point out that by her logic you should be able to get it elsewhere since according to her sex has nothing to do with love.

If she won't meet you halfway you've got some decisions to make.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

throughtorment said:


> I agree
> I see as it (even if it's kinky, as at least that shows I trust someone enough to experience it openly) as bonding in a way that is difficult through any other means.
> 
> Also, we DID have this part of our relationship perfected (so I thought) and shared lots of role playing, toys and such and she was honestly enthusiastic and satisfied. As she put weight on, started pre-menopause, everything dwindled.
> The shocking part is her attitude toward me. THAT'S sudden.


hmmmm. Sudden? Tell us exactly what seems sudden....


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## throughtorment (Jan 2, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> hmmmm. Sudden? Tell us exactly what seems sudden....


From dating 4-5 per week
....first year of marriage 2x per week (with equal initiation)
Once we hit 2 years married, it went from 10x per year, to 5x in 2020 and nothing now since July.

I wonder if some women equate love/safety/marriage with boring, friendship and simply accommodate their men

I found, over my experience, women's libido is higher for alpha males who are jerks, cheaters, and don't particularly like/need them. I always strive to remain in male frame and exude confidence, but it's tiring to maintain when always swimming upstream


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

throughtorment said:


> From dating 4-5 per week
> ....first year of marriage 2x per week (with equal initiation)
> Once we hit 2 years married, it went from 10x per year, to 5x in 2020 and nothing now since July.
> 
> ...


This is a common misconception. I don't think it's that the libido is necessarily higher....they just know they have to put out or said alpha jerk will dump them and **** someone else.

You could behave like that too but its clear you're not an asshole.

Besides.....women are a diverse group.

I wouldn't give a guy like that the time of day because I do in fact require safety and security to bond sexually.

Your wife doesn't appear to function like that.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

That’s not sudden at all, just saying.

I wish I could give some advice. I have none. I don’t think she should “see to your needs”, because you wouldn’t be satisfied with that kind of sex anyway. Sadly, you might consider asking if you could look elsewhere for that, although it’s doubtful you’d want to. You seem like an honorable enough guy.

But it might make her consider a problem that she has no interest in solving, if she thinks you’ll solve it by looking elsewhere.

This is a sad thing. I don’t think she’s not having sex with you as a punishment, she just doesn’t want it anymore. 10 times per year is a sexless marriage to me.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

You just need to think back to the difference and figure it out. You don’t sound like a loser from your posts here so I think it is tractable. A forum member here suggested I post details about what I did and I will do so.


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## DesireHerOnly1 (Jan 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I'm a female. I'm your age.
> 
> She isn't interested in sex. I don't think you will get her interested in sex. And more importantly, she doesn't sound like she cares to work on the issue or cares that she has left you with a completely unsatisfying and lonely intimate life.
> 
> Me, I'd leave the marriage. Is this how you want to spend your last few decades of life?


I feel for the situation. As a 45 year old man who so relates.

I have just downloaded “The Dead Bedroom Fix” my wife and I love each other. Have lived a good marriage for over 20 years.Common respect etc.

in a nutshell my wife (who I’m still 100% committed to) has negative talk about sex from her ultra conservative Mum, has some genuine Anxiety and PreMenopausal).

she is happy with a low level of sex/intimacy/touch towards me (yet loves me). I want my wife to have free will to desire me.

I have applied and will continue to apply good behaviour/psychology towards my wife (and space). However I think if after “Say” 3 more years things don’t turn around (that is her free will to desire me and give me touch/intimacy/sex both seperate and jointly).

however It will be tough, but if no change I don’t think it is healthy to be in my 50’s and above with Sexless marriage (more than just friends).

we need to have relationships more than friends (less then 15 times of sex per year = a problem resulting in maybe time to move on.

sex 26 times a year or more, definitely stay.

understand menopause, and this may be she will only want sex 3 times a year.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

@DesireHerOnly1 don’t wait 3 years. If your wife really loves you and you explain things right and she ever had any sexual attraction you should be able to fix it in 3 months.

Fellow ~45+ year old male here. I listened to that book when I was well along the way to fixing my own “dead” bedroom. Although mine was more on life support than dead.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

throughtorment said:


> when she drinks, gets very flirty and direct


So, make sure you own a liquor store or a bar.



lifeistooshort said:


> You could behave like that too (alpha) but its clear you're not an asshole.


Yes, the OP is not. He seems like a man who loves his wife and wants to resolve what, to her, is not a problem. Only to him, it's a problem.

I was a bar-room piano player for 15 years. I can verify, through first-hand experience, that the a$$hole guys get laid, and the decent, loving guys become crying shoulders for those who were dumped by the alphas. They wanted "daddy", but not their actual father, because they could not go to their father and tell him how they put out for an alpha and got dumped.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

@ccpowerslave - I'm all ears....well, eyes, at least one of mine still works....


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TJW said:


> So, make sure you own a liquor store or a bar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure, but that is a certain class of women. If that is one's experience with women then they are seeking out the wrong type of women and should think about who they're not noticing.

It's ironic if you think about it.....damaged women go for asaholes and the so called nice guys are upset because these same damaged women won't sleep with them.

So everyone in the above scenario is actually damaged.

Perhaps said nice guys should be looking at women who aren't damaged enough to put out for assholes and then cry on a guy who's been friend zoned shoulder.


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## DesireHerOnly1 (Jan 4, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> @DesireHerOnly1 don’t wait 3 years. If your wife really loves you and you explain things right and she ever had any sexual attraction you should be able to fix it in 3 months.
> 
> Fellow ~45+ year old male here. I listened to that book when I was well along the way to fixing my own “dead” bedroom. Although mine was more on life support than dead.


I totally see that in 3 months if attraction was originally present in 3 months it should be sorted. I also agree with this statement.

may wife had a number hurdles (mainly not feeling sexual because of upbringing).

Mum willing to work to an end where sex is very mutual and healthy (more frequent and much more mutual).

things are clearly spelt out (without me being an arsehole) and I am willing to give time.

im just saying I think my wife is worth it, waiting 3 years is to see an absolute change in attitude and outcome (for rest of our lives). I want give up if she seeks the ultimate same outcome. All I’m saying is I’m giving lots of space, time for her to work through her issues of what I think Sex should be (mutual) if her anxiety/mindset/libido isn’t something where I know it will be very different for me (after she works on things) than I would be able to know and show my kids that I love their Mum, she is awesome, and always is, but also that I haven’t made any selfish or quick decision based on SEX, however I’m not going to accept a sexless marriage as normal or something that should last.

I as a man see children, love for my wife as very important things also, I’ve waited over 20 years and what is another 3.

Id rather hold love and respect with my wife and kids (even if after 3 years of doing everything and applying good behaviour and actions).
In the end for me, I feel my wife loves me, but less interested in my need for intimacy/sex (I’m a guy who wants both not just Sex). However have come to realise I don’t want to live with a friend who may give me sex sometimes.

I don’t know, it might take my wife 3 months, a year or 3, and I hope not never. But I can’t move on so quick. Other than low sex, she’s great and I love her.

she now knows Low Libido (sexless marriage with low intimacy) is not what I consider as a Marriage Union.

Just want to encourage people to name what they expect (not aggressively) and give time to see things change for good.
I’m not a fool or push over, I’m a professional with reasonable looks (truly) and have good values.

but a marriage/partnership must also include mutual pleasure and I would say at least sex 3 times a month (not trying to count).


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

TJW said:


> I was a bar-room piano player for 15 years. I can verify, through first-hand experience, that the a$$hole guys get laid...


A universal truth. Probably very high Testosterone attracts just like with other animals. Just watching the deer on my property during the rut, the bad a$$ bucks mate* ALL* of the does. 

As a young man observed that the bad dudes on Harleys always had the hottest looking girls hanging on them. I asked a woman friend of my wife who had been a biker chick in her younger days and she said it was the excitement, she never knew if he was going to beat crap out of her, pass her around to his friends, or take her on drive to Vegas (and she didn't care).


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DesireHerOnly1 said:


> has some genuine Anxiety and PreMenopausal


Does she take anything for her anxiety? Is she seeing a therapist? Might be very difficult to overturn the situation.


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## DesireHerOnly1 (Jan 4, 2021)

TJW said:


> So, make sure you own a liquor store or a bar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


However how many of these genuine ladies result in wanting to give love/affection/sex to these guys they want a crying shoulder. Or are they friend zone.

Nice guys don’t get more sex because they are nice. (Not fair but true). However I would tend to want to believe, nice looking slightly alpha guys (not needy) should get love/respect/sex. However it’s a mind game for women. I can see the Man must make the girl respect/desire them. Too much listening (validating ideas that may not be true with how a girl thinks) will loose attraction from ladies.

men should be present and male, that’s attractive (every man needs this talk about how women are attracted or turned off).


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm a 46 year old woman and the weight could be a big factor. Many men don't realize how much a woman's body image factors into her sex drive, particularly as she gets older.
> 
> Men are more forgiving and often desire their wife/gf anyway so they don't understand how big of an issue it is. I'm an endurance athlete (think triathlons and competitive running) and I always feel friskier when I'm in better shape. The effects are both mental and physical.
> ......


this is one thing i realized a long time ago. my wife was not feeling "sexy" anymore. and as such, could not understand how she could still turn me on sexually.

it really did take a good year and a half to get her to change her way of thinking. 
a lot of lingerie, perfume, sensual massages, etc.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

TJW said:


> I don't want to "hijack" - but want to respond briefly.
> 
> I am frequently, due to diabetes, peripheral artery disease, and advanced age (68) sometimes unable to obtain erections and/or sexual release. However, I still love to feel her body, kiss her, hold her, and give her sexual release. It makes me feel like a little more of a man .....


See, those happy hormones start a feedback loop. Touch releases happy hormones. Being wants more of those good feels, so being engages in touching and being touched. Hugs, kisses, hand holding, cuddles, and sex. When those hormones aren't present the being does not desire to touch and be touched and , in fact, may feel repulsed by touch.

Women, particularly those who are shy some oxytocin, among others, tend to NOT want to touch or be touched. It's not emotional. It's biological. They literally cannot feel the warm fuzzies of physical intimacy the way you do because those feelings are the result of a hormone release they are lacking.



TJW said:


> I can verify, through first-hand experience, that the a$$hole guys get laid, and the decent, loving guys become crying shoulders for those who were dumped by the alphas.


At the bar? Well, duh!

When I was a young thang on the prowl we went to the bars to get laid, not looking for "the one". We weren't looking for serious partners, but for recreation. Those assholes can be charming and very fun to hang out with casually a time or two and they're usually fairly sexually aggressive in terms of making their interest known. 

First, "nice guys" looking for their future Mrs at the bar are barking up the wrong tree. Sure, some people meet their future spouse at the bar, I did, but the majority are there for something very different. Second, "nice guys" frequently miss their opportunity because they are nice guys and don't want to be too forward or "pressure" the object of their desire, so they basically nice themselves right to the friend zone. 

When I was a youngin I had a male friend and I cried on his shoulder about his asshat friend who frustrated, pissed off, and confused me with general jackassery. He, being a bit of an asshole, decided to comfort me for a bit and then made his move. And he was successful. Many times. Why? Because I wanted to feel something good, to be distracted and have fun, but not be at risk of getting involved since he's an ass and all.

A "nice guy" would be like "Oh, I couldn't! I don't want to take advantage! Maybe I'll tell her I like her when she's had time to heal."

The asshole? He'll make that move.

I'd bet the gals who go to the bar for a good time, but are open to something real, would give far more nice guys a chance if said nice guys were just a tad more aggressive and actually made a real move.


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## Totally T (Dec 20, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> See, those happy hormones start a feedback loop. Touch releases happy hormones. Being wants more of those good feels, so being engages in touching and being touched. Hugs, kisses, hand holding, cuddles, and sex. When those hormones aren't present the being does not desire to touch and be touched and , in fact, may feel repulsed by touch.
> 
> Women, particularly those who are shy some oxytocin, among others, tend to NOT want to touch or be touched. It's not emotional. It's biological. They literally cannot feel the warm fuzzies of physical intimacy the way you do because those feelings are the result of a hormone release they are lacking.
> 
> ...


Really solid wisdom here. I thought the nice guy/ Alan Alda route was the way to go, at first, but learned differently. I have to say I'm still surprised to hear women going out expressly to get laid with nothing else. I know this happens, but when I was young, no one said it.

Gotta step forward.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

throughtorment said:


> From dating 4-5 per week
> ....first year of marriage 2x per week (with equal initiation)
> Once we hit 2 years married, it went from 10x per year, to 5x in 2020 and nothing now since July.
> 
> ...


Fertile women respond to alpha males. 

Menopausal women couldn’t care less at best and often just plain don’t like them at all. 

Fertility makes women respond to “male frame.”

Menopause makes women respond to cats. 

My wife and I used to have an extraordinary sex life.

Menopause and migraines and anxiety and host of medications came along and now she is simply no longer the person that used to have a sex drive and who used to desire me. 

That person is gone. The person that remains couldn’t care less if she ever has sex with me again and I’m sure would prefer I became just as sexually inert. 

She will offer up a HJ or something if I ask nicely but it has no more intimacy or passion than a doctor suturing a wound. It is just a service being provided to have a spouse in the house. 

We’re probably not too far away from her not even caring about that 😞 

I don’t know if this is actually what is happening with your wife but I’m just relaying that the changes in libido and sexual response can be that dramatic. 

Some women actually get hornier and less inhibited with menopause.

Some completely shut down their sexualities. 

HRT can help for awhile but it also has its own risks and side effects and at best slows the decline and spreads it out over more time. It’s not a permanent solution. 

For us guys it is kind of a culture shock because we feel the same as we always have and can’t truly relate.

But for some women, the the sexy, horny wife that used to be DTF in the dressing room of JC Pennys, is for all practical purposes dead and buried and the imposter left in her wake is perfectly content to sit on her phone all day on the coach with her cats and doesn’t want to be bothered with some guy’s Johnson.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> Fertile women respond to alpha males.
> 
> Menopausal women couldn’t care less at best and often just plain don’t like them at all.
> 
> ...


God...that is DEPRESSING. I’m on the precipice and I wonder which way it will go for me 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> God...that is DEPRESSING. I’m on the precipice and I wonder which way it will go for me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Although, schnauzers will have to do:



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

PS: For now I’m still horny as ****! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Elizabeth001 said:


> God...that is DEPRESSING. I’m on the precipice and I wonder which way it will go for me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like I said, different people respond differently.

For some women, their libidos and interest actually increase. 

For some there’s not much of a dramatic effect one way or another.

My wife became a completely different person.

She herself would say that something was happening to her and that she was no longer herself and felt like she was turning into someone else (and yes, we have been to quite a few doctors, shrinks and MCs). 

I can tell she misses it too and wishes she could feel that passion again, but she just doesn’t have it anymore.

Your mileage may vary.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Elizabeth001 said:


> PS: For now I’m still horny as ****!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m envious of your H!! 🤢 

You may be fine and not be impacted negatively by it. 

But live life to the fullest now and make great memories now because none of us ever know what tomorrow may bring (always good advice regardless of libido).


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

That sucks oldshirt sorry to hear that.

My wife is still pre but is in the age bracket where it can occur at any time. I am optimistic about it and thinking her’s will go up to the point where I am having problems dealing with it (crossing fingers).


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> I’m envious of your H!!
> 
> You may be fine and not be impacted negatively by it.
> 
> But live life to the fullest now and make great memories now because none of us ever know what tomorrow may bring (always good advice regardless of libido).


Oh...XH is glad to be off the hook. New lady is either asexual as well or just hasn’t figured it out yet. lol 

My current regimen is masturbate as needed. Checking out OLD again atm and it’s just as depressing as last time...perhaps worse. 

Meh...what do you do with the cards you are delt? Play ‘em the best you can 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Elizabeth001 said:


> PS: For now I’m still horny as ****!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me too....actually hornier in perimenopause at almost 47. For some of us as our estrogen levels drop the ratio of testosterone to estrogen increases so our sex drive goes up.

My ex hb, otoh, has raging ED that he refuses to deal with. He can be as phony as he wants during his phone calls and texts with his skank ex that he kept around while we were together. If the opportunity ever presents itself I'm sure she'll just love his limp ****.

So we should be careful with the generalizations. Fortunately for me my lovely 55 year old bf gets it up nicely and we have a great time 😀

We typically manage 2-3 times per week and that's because we both work and don't live together or else it might be more.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Another source of testosterone for women can be male ejaculate.

NIH Paper on this.

I am running an experiment of my own trying to see if it can increase my wife’s spontaneous desire but no luck so far 😩


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Yep...reduction to roommate sucks and it will eventually break you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Or worse, you get resentful and angry.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

snerg said:


> Or worse, you get resentful and angry.


yes, like me... and destroyed the marriage.


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## Totally T (Dec 20, 2020)

Ouch to all the above!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> I am running an experiment of my own trying to see if it can increase my wife’s spontaneous desire but no luck so far 😩


Isn't that a catch-22 situation?


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Me too....actually hornier in perimenopause at almost 47. For some of us as our estrogen levels drop the ratio of testosterone to estrogen increases so our sex drive goes up.
> 
> My ex hb, otoh, has raging ED that he refuses to deal with. He can be as phony as he wants during his phone calls and texts with his skank ex that he kept around while we were together. If the opportunity ever presents itself I'm sure she'll just love his limp ****.
> 
> ...


My wife and I are in our seventies, and she has been on HRT nearing two decades. When doctor reduced her estrogen dose about a 18 months ago her T ratio increased and libido went through the roof. Our activity went back to what recall from our 20s, and had to up my game, using meds to keep up. Embarked on weight loss and exercise program to improve stamina and drop fat. This has helped immensely too. Got the urologist who removed my prostate decades ago to agree to begin T therapy, but the exercise and weight loss seem to me to have done the job alone. 

No doubt eventually age takes its toll, but we are both trying to make that age as old as possible. I can't imagine a man (or woman) who wouldn't do everything possible to deal with performance issues in the bedroom.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> yes, like me... and destroyed the marriage.


Let's be realistic.

Marriage is already destroyed if you reached this point.

You decided to not go quietly into that good night.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

snerg said:


> Let's be realistic.
> 
> Marriage is already destroyed if you reached this point.
> 
> You decided to not go quietly into that good night.


I wouldn't say it's destroyed. You are at a point where you need insight and maturity and I didn't have either. I was selfish too and contributed to the failure. It was still salvageable, but I got carried away. In hindsight, I would have behaved completely differently. Maybe the result would have been the same, but with much less heartache.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> My wife and I are in our seventies, and she has been on HRT nearing two decades. When doctor reduced her estrogen dose about a 18 months ago her T ratio increased and libido went through the roof. Our activity went back to what recall from our 20s, and had to up my game, using meds to keep up. Embarked on weight loss and exercise program to improve stamina and drop fat. This has helped immensely too. Got the urologist who removed my prostate decades ago to agree to begin T therapy, but the exercise and weight loss seem to me to have done the job alone.
> 
> No doubt eventually age takes its toll, but we are both trying to make that age as old as possible. I can't imagine a man (or woman) who wouldn't do everything possible to deal with performance issues in the bedroom.


70’s and still having sex? Impressive. My future just seemed brighter🙂
Good for you


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> *70’s and still having sex? *


Ask any "elderly" person and they will tell you that *INSIDE* their mind and spirit they are still 20 something, stuck inside an old worn out body. We ARE older than we THINK we are lol. I honestly don't see any reason a person can't be sexually active until they draw their last breath, that is what we plan anyway. FWIW, the wife and I easily hike further and faster than nearly all of our descendants, teenage grandchildren included.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Like I said, different people respond differently.
> 
> For some women, their libidos and interest actually increase.
> 
> ...


Has she looked into hormone replacement therapies (e.g., testosterone, progesterone, etc.)? It can work wonders for some (such as my wife), as long as there aren't risk factors that make it unwise.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TJW said:


> ....You cannot "reignite" her desire. That is something only she can do, and she is completely disinterested.
> .....I have just accepted that I must remain relatively sexless and get a "pity screw" once in a while.
> 
> For me, a divorce is simply not worth it, in terms of financial losses and emotional hurts.....


You are right about your W being the only person who can change herself. Your acceptance is in my opinion sad and tragic.

I would suggest that you get a copy of MW Davis book The Sex Starved Marriage. You might find that while you can't make her do what you want directly, that you might be able to change the dynamic in your marriage by the treatment you accept or by making changes in yourself. Doing that may make things better or worse. Only your spouse can determine which way the change will occur by her response to the changed dynamic. But at least it offers hope and the possibility of finding some form of limited happiness.

Good luck.


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## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

throughtorment said:


> I've already 'been there done that


Her saying she doesn't want to keep doing what other people want seems like a red flag to me. Maybe something bad happened during one of those experiences, and it's messing with her now. Or, maybe she just feels guilty/dirty (some people could while others would be ok with it). 

Could it be that she wants more excitement but wants to be asked what that looks like to her?



In Absentia said:


> she then backtracked a bit, saying "maybe when I lose the weight".


She was fishing. Did you tell her she is still sexy/beautiful and you still love/want her just the way she is? Probably not, since you aren't a mind reader. It's like we (men and women) speak foreign languages sometimes.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

So Married said:


> She was fishing. Did you tell her she is still sexy/beautiful and you still love/want her just the way she is? Probably not, since you aren't a mind reader. It's like we (men and women) speak foreign languages sometimes.


She wasn't fishing, unfortunately. I told her many time she is beautiful and I don't care if she is fat, thin, etc. She has serious body image issues and she was telling the truth. She hates her body, especially now. I can tell you, she was a stunner when I met her and she still is. I don't care what size she is.


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## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

How about a sexercise class together then?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

So Married said:


> How about a sexercise class together then?


We are way past that. We don't sleep in the same bed and we don't have sex (it's been 3 years now) - her choice. She says it's too late for us to salvage our marriage. She pretended everything was fine for 10 years not to destroy the family. Now the kids have grown up, so she doesn't want to deal with me any more. We will be separating at the end of Covid, I guess, even if I said I would stay to support her (she was struggling mentally). I can't live like this.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> We are way past that. We don't sleep in the same bed and we don't have sex (it's been 3 years now) - her choice. She says it's too late for us to salvage our marriage. She pretended everything was fine for 10 years not to destroy the family. Now the kids have grown up, so she doesn't want to deal with me any more. We will be separating at the end of Covid, I guess, even if I said I would stay to support her (she was struggling mentally). I can't live like this.


Dude....covid again? Just move next door to your property you own.... next door!


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## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I can't live like this.


So sorry. It does sound terrible. I hope you find happiness.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Dude....covid again? Just move next door to your property you own.... next door!


She's moved next door...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

So Married said:


> So sorry. It does sound terrible. I hope you find happiness.


yes, it is pretty bad, but hey, I will get over it... thanks for your interest!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> We are way past that. We don't sleep in the same bed and we don't have sex (it's been 3 years now) - her choice. She says it's too late for us to salvage our marriage. She pretended everything was fine for 10 years not to destroy the family. Now the kids have grown up, so she doesn't want to deal with me any more. We will be separating at the end of Covid, I guess, even if I said I would stay to support her (she was struggling mentally). I can't live like this.


But you ARE living like "this"...and saying the same thing for over a year now...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> She's moved next door...


So you are separated...? SHE left YOU to live next door?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DesireHerOnly1 said:


> However how many of these genuine ladies result in wanting to give love/affection/sex to these guys they want a crying shoulder. Or are they friend zone.
> 
> Nice guys don’t get more sex because they are nice. (Not fair but true). However I would tend to want to believe, nice looking slightly alpha guys (not needy) should get love/respect/sex. However it’s a mind game for women. I can see the Man must make the girl respect/desire them. Too much listening (validating ideas that may not be true with how a girl thinks) will loose attraction from ladies.
> 
> men should be present and male, that’s attractive (every man needs this talk about how women are attracted or turned off).


Again you might just be looking for the wrong women. My husband is a nice guy but not the 'nice guy' book type he doesn't make covert contracts. He is kind, considerate, loving, generous and he gets sex 4-10 times a week depending on how much his penis and back can handle. I find him sex. I like sex with him. Of course part of his generous nature is he is a generous lover as well.
He offers me safety and security. I also don't play mind games. I am unique but I am also not an only. There are other women like this. I also was never attracted to the jerk alpha type.

I am highly intelligent and good at many things. I used to 'dumb' down in high school because too many boys couldn't handle it. But as I got more mature I decided if they didn't like me for me I didn't need them. My husband doesn't mind when I beat him at darts, or pool, and listened to me when I had an idea on how to fix our car. When I was younger I had big breasts, a small waist and I'm short so I had plenty of suitors but they didn't make me feel loved, safe or secure. They were constantly trying to grab my breasts and or 'be the man' or some alpha crap like that. My husband paid for those young experiences but he never complained, he wasn't intimidated and he is my best friend. All this make me want to have sex with him now all the time. I often worry that I ask too much of him. 

Point being you are dating the wrong girl if they don't appreciate a truly nice guy. But you are probably picking them by breasts or such instead of other attributes.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> So you are separated...? SHE left YOU to live next door?


no, we are not officially separated, but we live different lives, although I'm shielding, so I can't go anywhere. Hence waiting for Covid to go away. There is no point in rocking the boat now, since there is no escape route for me. It would mean creating an unbearable atmosphere when 2 kids are back because of Covid.


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