# Wife might not love me anymore



## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

It's amazing how many of these posts I'm seeing on here! I don't know if it makes it any easier knowing so many others face the same thing!

So here's my story - We've been married for 15 years and together for about 3 years before that. We met while we were in university. We were in two different schools in two different provinces (in Canada) and I really didn't think a LD relationship was a great idea, though she fell for me pretty quickly. After a couple of months, I got over the idea of long distance and we started dating and by the summer she moved in with me for just the summer. Following that summer, we had 1 year left apart, which we managed ok (and spent lots of money on phone bills and travelling to see each other all the time. Finally we were done school and were so in love. We got married and started our lives together. We slowly found our careers and decided to have kids after being married 6 years. The time was just right.
We have two boys. The oldest is definitely a handful, bordering on ADHD so it's been very trying with him. He's starting to really come out of it now though so it's getting easier. 

Early in our relationship, we were truly best friends, soulmates. We never wanted to be away from each other. It was definitely sickening for our friends to be around us. We were really in love.
Sex was pretty good, though we were never really those people who did it every single day. We were really a couple times a week after the first couple years. We had busy lives, lots of friends, involved in choirs and things like that together. We spent all our time together.

When our oldest was born, we went through a period of exhaustion for a few years, dealing with a busier than normal kid mild ADHD). Our jobs were also quite busy. We both often had to do extra work at night, not able to leave it at the office often. Our sex life really went downhill from then on. 

My own libido really seemed to drop hard somewhere in those years as well. I also started having problems with erectile dysfunction. I did try to bring it up with her a couple of times and she shrugged it off saying i was fine. 2nd kid is born. We are even more tired and more busy with our jobs. Enter iphones. We both got iphones within the last few years. She's also doing her masters. She's become good friends with the girls in her masters program, though they are all from away (it's distance education). She started spending tons of time on her phone, texting and messaging her friends. Any time we were alone without the kids, she would be on her phone texting, hardly ever paying full attention to me. She even does it in front of other people. We have friends over and she's on her phone texting half the time.

That was the past 2 years or so. Fastforward to 3 weeks ago. She comes home early from work and says we have to talk. She talks about the sex problems and how she can't live like that any more. She wants us to go to counselling. I agree immediately. I want to do all i can to get her back. In the span of the next 2 days, I have a counselling session and went to my dr and got viagra to see if that helped (he sent me for tests first so it took a couple weeks to get the pills). For the next week or so, i worked hard at intimacy with her. It's all very sincere and I only had to work to get over the problem of ED, which was fine. She was fine to do other stuff other than intercourse. Anyway, the day I come home from dr from getting test results and a prescription, she says she no longer wants to go to our counsellor but that she needs to see a psychologist. I'm very very hurt by this since we really need to get help together as well as individually. She doesn't want to do anything together right now. She says she has to figure out herself first. 

She says that she's confused and doesn't know if she loves me any more. That's why she's at the psychologist because she doesn't want to do the wrong thing, act on a feeling that she isn't completely sure about. 

I'm a completely mess. I went from being very optimistic (the day i came home with viagra) to being completely depressed. I've been like this for about a week now. Today she said she didn't know if she still loves me. She also says she doesn't remember what we were like in the first 10 years or so that we were together. She doesn't remember how we always wanted to be together all the time. I don't know what to do. She wants time. It's going to take a long time for her to figure out her stuff with her psychologist. I don't know how i'm going to be able to make it that long. It's not that i need it to be fixed tomorrow, but i need us to be going to counselling, both individually and together. But she doesn't want to. I also have no one to talk to about this stuff since my best friend is also a really good friend of hers from when they were small. I really can't talk to him because I don't want him to get a bad impression of her at all. I love her so much. I still don't like being away from her at all. She's gone out 5 nights of the past 7 (and 2 of those were overnight at a friend's). I just don't know what to do!!


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Are you sure there is not someone else? Especially with her being gone so much. Her sudden change in direction would make me suspicious. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm pretty sure. We have that find friends app on our phones. We can each see where the other one is any time. SHe's always been where she said she was, at her friend's house usually.


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

I think it just all piled up, the sex life problem and it probably just all came to a head.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Is your ED a psychological or physical problem?


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

psychological. There is definitely a lot of it coming from stress,family, relationship and work. I'm trying to deal with it, with viagra as joining a gym and stuff


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Sorry man. When a woman says they need time they really mean they want time without you to explore other men.

Nobody ever needs "time" away from their husband unless they don't want them anymore.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

This seems to be SOOooo common here.......Very similar situation for me too......BEWARE TOXIC FRIENDS and change of life hormones......Perhaps other things, but there seems to be a common thread among our wives that leads to this behavior.....D


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Perhaps her friend is encouraging her to doubt her M and seek other options?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

She may be physically where she says she's going to be. However, that is assuming that the "someone else" is local. If there is someone else, most likely that person is in the master's degree program she's attending and makes it a distance relationship. If you are not familiar with what an emotional affair is, you should research it. Not saying she's in one, but if this pulling away is very sudden and she's becoming more guarded with her phone, texting a lot more than usual and locking herself away in another part of the house when she's NOT working on homework, then she may be in an EA.


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

My ED is psychological. Stress from family, wife, work all added then the beginning of ED really escalated my stress and added to itself.


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

Her friend is somewhat recently divorced after having gone through a horrible break up with her ass hole husband (he was selling drugs, nearly had their car and house taken away and she didn't know any of this was happening!). Anyway, she is definitely bitter and I'm sure she is affecting how my wife feels. But how do i deal with that? I'm hoping counselling really starts to help!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

She's gone without the kids or are they with her?


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

She leaves without the kids. Having my kids around (boys ages 6&9) is the only thing that keeps me going!


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Sorry man. When a woman says they need time they really mean they want time without you to explore other men.
> 
> Nobody ever needs "time" away from their husband unless they don't want them anymore.


While I agree that many times there is "someone else", there are plenty of women who check out and leave a marriage simply because they are fed up. I actually know quite a few women who walked away FROM their husband and not TO someone new. The stresses of life, the training women have from birth to accept whatever life brings them without complaint, kids, job, housework, hormonal changes etc. Some women simply zone out. I have never heard of a man simply leaving without a new woman already in place, but there are definitely women who just want to escape marriage in general.

With that said, there are some red flags in this case that I would still investigate who she is talking to so much. Check phone records, add a VAR, etc.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

let me guess. She just turned 40 or is about to. Correct?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

lost_and_confused said:


> My ED is psychological. Stress from family, wife, work all added then the beginning of ED really escalated my stress and added to itself.



Are you taking any meds like zoloft that could impact your libido?


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

I have checked records a bit and it seems fine. Yes, she's turning 39 this year. 
I work from home. I'm a software developer and work remotely for a company and have lots of flexibility. I do almost all of the cooking, i am the one who gets the boys ready in the morning for school (she gets them dressed but I make all the lunches, breakfast and pack their bags and get them out the door). I do tons of stuff. I clean, I spend time with the kids. I used to spend time with her too until a month or so ago. I don't believe that there is another man. Not at this point. I do believe that she is having an emotional affair with her girlfriend...things that we used to talk about we don't any more. We were always so perfect for each other, sharing everything. She even locks the bathroom door whenever she goes in now...she NEVER did that unless it was to keep the kids out...but she does it now to keep me out! 

I'm so glad to have found this site. It really helps to get some of this out, even though it's not face to face with a friend.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

This friend is bitter from her D and may be "at war" with men in general. This may be influencing your W's thoughts.

Tell us, does she go on GNOs with this friend?


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

No, no meds. I really think it started with having our first child. He was a lot of work and we were exhausted. Our sex life plunged. It never really came back after that. Once i had a few times where i had ED probs, i started getting very worried about that. Of course, as a man, i didn't want to talk about that with anyone. Once we started counselling a month or so ago, i built up the courage to discuss it with the counsellor. After talking with him, i felt a bit better about it and 2 hours later i was in my dr's office talking to him about it. 10 days later I got a prescription to try to get me out of it. Unfortunately we haven't tried it yet because my wife all of a sudden started going out more and we just cry when we're together We don't fight at all...we both are feeling awful about the whole situation. We just bawl. I am definitely more heart broken. She is at the point where she doesn't know if she even loves me any more. I feel like i'm sinking into a huge hole. My kids are really keeping me afloat. The only thing they may notice is differnt is that I'm paying attention to them the entire time they are home and awake now and they make me really happy.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Hang in there and stay with us......these people will get you through this......Have faith and stay calm. It will be OK. D


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

She never really used to go out with her. She's had a GNO in past couple of weeks with her though. I'm fine with that. I'm happy for her to spend time with friends...but not at the expense of spending time with me! She seems to be more willing to spend time with her than with me.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

lost_and_confused said:


> She never really used to go out with her. She's had a GNO in past couple of weeks with her though. I'm fine with that. I'm happy for her to spend time with friends...but not at the expense of spending time with me! She seems to be more willing to spend time with her than with me.


Probably a toxic friend.
But for you start going out some nights yourself and let her pay for a babysitter.
Let her wonder where you are at.


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

I can't do that. I'm not spiteful and do not ever wish anything bad on her. Our money is our money. Paying for a sitter is our money. She would definitely stay home for me to go out...i just don't have any where to go. I had thought about getting a hotel for a night just for a break...but to be honest, I don't think being alone would help my depression right now. I am trying to plan a weekend away with a buddy. He doesn't live here...he's about 8 hours away but we may go away for a weekend or something soon. But I don't think NOW is the right time. I don't want to run from this, i want to deal with it head on. I really hope she decides to at least come to couples counselling soon.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

lost_and_confused said:


> We don't fight at all...we both are feeling awful about the whole situation. We just bawl. I am definitely more heart broken. She is at the point where she doesn't know if she even loves me any more. I feel like i'm sinking into a huge hole.


So what is she willing to do to work on this? I would lay that out for her pretty bluntly. Consider telling her the following:

You understand what she is saying and you can't force her to stay.
You love her and want to to work on this together. 
But you won't sit around waiting for her if she can't decide or is not willing to work on things. 
She has 24 hours then start protecting yourself.
You love her enough to set her free if she no longer loves you because you deserve better.

This assumes that you have reasonably ruled out any inappropriate interactions with another.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

It's quite likely that she's had an affair, if only a one night stand after a girl's night out. Her friend probably covers for her, because they've talked about how horrible their men are/were and now it's their turn to have fun or something. Definitely look into this. Don't just sweep it under the rug, because there is no way you'll get her back if she's cheated/cheating, even if just emotionally.

Secondly, stop your bawling and be a man. Women say they like emotional men, but they don't. What they mean is that they like passionate men. Men who cry on their shoulders are not sexy at all. Read a book like No More Mister Nice Guy for some more tips in this area. Search this forum for the 180 and do it.

Chances are that her counsellor is enabling her toxic behaviour and telling her crap like, "You have to make choices for you, now", leading her to be more selfish and checked out. Perhaps you can ask to meet her counsellor and sit in one of her sessions to see if this is the case. I bet it is, even if you don't get to see it in person.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Women start to change around 40. They start questioning the choices they have made. And she maybe starting perimenopause. This is where the hormones are starting to change and messing them up emotionally.

If she decides she wants a break DO NOT BEG HER TO STAY. Do not be needy or clingy. Dont talk about the relationship. Dont follow her around like a puppy.

Do get the books Married Man Sex Life Primer and No More Mr Nice Guy and read them. Act as if you will be fine no matter what.

Another thing start eating healthy and exercising. Bulk up.

I say this, because I went thru the same thing and it has taken me 11 years to get back on track with my wife.
Another thing that is important is find out what her emotional needs are and fill them abuntantly.

Exeecise may help with your ED and it will lower your stress.

I wish you the very best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

lost_and_confused said:


> I can't do that. I'm not spiteful and do not ever wish anything bad on her. Our money is our money. Paying for a sitter is our money. She would definitely stay home for me to go out...i just don't have any where to go. I had thought about getting a hotel for a night just for a break...but to be honest, I don't think being alone would help my depression right now. I am trying to plan a weekend away with a buddy. He doesn't live here...he's about 8 hours away but we may go away for a weekend or something soon. But I don't think NOW is the right time. I don't want to run from this, i want to deal with it head on.


I would not do it so that she is wondering about you doing things you should not. I would do it to take care of yourself and show that you can be happy without her. Finding a hobby or activity you used to do but have dropped. Show her that guy that she first dated and married. Yes, life may be better with her in it, but you need to remind yourself that you can be happy without her.



> I really hope she decides to at least come to couples counselling soon.


Why won't you make this a requirement? It takes two to have a marriage. If she is not happy, no longer loves you but is not willing to work on it, it is hard to fix things.


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## lost_and_confused (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm going to ask her about perhaps doing couples counselling with her psychologist. At least if we are doing it individually it is with the same person who can at least get 2 sides.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Thound said:


> If she decides she wants a break DO NOT BEG HER TO STAY. Do not be needy or clingy. Dont talk about the relationship. Dont follow her around like a puppy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with this and would go a step further. If she asks for a break, tell her you disagree with this approach but won't stop her. Then sit down and figure out when she is moving out and where her things get sent. You have not done anything wrong, so you are not leaving the house. Also work out bills, finances, child care and the like. What is appropriate behavior during separation? What about dating? Make explicit what each person can and cannot do.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

lost_and_confused said:


> I'm going to ask her about perhaps doing couples counselling with her psychologist. At least if we are doing it individually it is with the same person who can at least get 2 sides.


The problem I see is that your wife is the patient. The psychologists duty is to her, not to you or the marriage. Find an independent third party.

But again, what is with this suggestion crap. If she refuses, what are you left with in your marriage? She is telling you she does not want to do anything to make it work. I think you need to make it a requirement if you two are going to stay together. If she refuses, there is nothing to fix.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I recently advised another poster that its okay to cry but in your case it isn't. You aren't going to be able to get her to come back by trying to reason with her or begging her not to go. I know this sounds odd/harsh but the reality is the only chance you have to save your marriage is to make her take the focus off of herself. Right now she is in a woe is me state, questioning if she should stay or go. She is doing this because she assumes you will be there waiting for her while she mulls things over.

My advice is to tell her that if she wants to leave you're okay with it. Then start really acting like you are okay with it. Start doing social activities with your friends again, and working on yourself. There is a decent chance the thought of losing you will make her realize she needs to snap out of it. If she doesn't she was already lost anyway.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

I am sorry if this is an unwelcome thought but have you contemplated the possibility that she and her girlfriend may be considering whether they are bisexual?

That could explain why she wants to see a psychologist rather than a counsellor.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

lost_and_confused said:


> Her friend is somewhat recently divorced after having gone through a horrible break up with her ass hole husband (he was selling drugs, nearly had their car and house taken away and she didn't know any of this was happening!). Anyway, she is definitely bitter and I'm sure she is affecting how my wife feels. But how do i deal with that? I'm hoping counselling really starts to help!


Ughh. Divorce toxic friend can ABSOLUTELY destroy a marriage. I have no advice here since she seems to have already made up her mind.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

When this happened to me I roally fvcked up. I begged her to stay, I threatned to harm myself etc.etc. I was in limbo for 10 years until I found this site. After I read the books recommended and starting to apply them things have improved dramaticly


I cannot stress enough the working out with weights. After I got my pythons I felt better about myself. Out in public my wife would notice women smiling at me. My DIL told me my wife was concerned I was going to leave her.

I wish I had found this site 11 years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> My advice is to tell her that if she wants to leave you're okay with it. Then start really acting like you are okay with it. Start doing social activities with your friends again, and working on yourself. There is a decent chance the thought of losing you will make her realize she needs to snap out of it. If she doesn't she was already lost anyway.


This raises an issue that is worth highlighting. You provide things to her that she very likely values. Taking care of the kids, your paycheck, your support of her schooling, and the like. In her current state, she does not seem to be think of them, or at least does not place a high value on them. By removing all that you provide, you give her a more realistic picture of what her future will look like. Not just the fun stuff that she may be seeing, but the not so fun stuff as well. 

So if you two do separate, it is critical that it be a real separation, with all the minuses, not just the pluses.


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## MoonWink (Feb 4, 2014)

I am a wife who has recently gone through what I believe your wife is going through. We were together for over 20 years and did not have sex at all for the last 6 months. Although I still loved and cared deeply for my husband, I did not feel sexual towards him at all. 

He moved out and I came across a book about woman's infidelity which although I was not having an affair, really opened my eyes to why and how common it was for me to feel the way I was feeling. I realized that with everything that was happening in my life, I had suppressed my own sexuality and yes, I blamed my husband for that and a lot of other things.

With all the day to day pressures and taking care of the kids, it was difficult for me to switch from mommy mode to naughty mode. I started to avoid my husband because I was avoiding sex. I did not want to do anything that would invite him to put his hands on me. Sometimes I felt suffocated. I also avoided talking with him about the situation because I was confused myself and it would usually end with fighting and tears.

My advice to you, would be to make YOURSELF your centre. You know you are a good man. I truly admire that you are taking care of your family. Find the self confidence that you deserve. A man with self confidence is very very attractive to us women. You will know you have found it when you notice that women are checking you out as you go about your daily business  Keep the communication open with your wife but don’t smother her. Respect her privacy. I don’t think there is anything you can do to make your wife come around but if she notices that you have moved on and can have a life, she may want to be part of it and start fighting to keep you.

Although my husband and I do not live together, we are currently dating. I have made it my policy to say whatever is on my mind. We can talk without fighting. I look forward to seeing him. I love being around him. And the sex is amazing. It was a long road to get here but well worth every tear.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Ughh. Divorce toxic friend can ABSOLUTELY destroy a marriage. I have no advice here since she seems to have already made up her mind.


Sometimes non-sexual relationships that aren't toxic in the traditional sense can sink a marriage. A colleague of mine recently retired and was looking forward to traveling the world with his wife and growing old together. She decided she wanted to grow old with her sister instead (they were always very close). She asked for a divorce. To her credit though since she was the one that wanted out she didn't hit him hard financially.

He is doing fine though. He is around 60 and has a very active dating life. There is life after when your wife checks out on you. Even if you're older.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MoonWink said:


> He moved out and I came across a book about woman's infidelity which although I was not having an affair, really opened my eyes to why and how common it was for me to feel the way I was feeling. I realized that with everything that was happening in my life, I had suppressed my own sexuality and yes, I blamed my husband for that and a lot of other things.


Anything your husband could have done to reach you before you read that book? If he had gotten it for you, would you have read it and been accepting of it? I am just trying to get a sense of actions the OP could take based on your view point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She's having an affair.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

She very well could still be having an affair and leaving the phone with the divorced friend who may be encouraging her. Don't assume she is where her phone is. Do you call her? Try phoning her sometime (not just texting; friend can text on her behalf) when she's with the friend.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

By the way, you base your assumption that she is safely at her friend's house on that FriendFinder app. Two things:

1. She knows what the app does and might deliberately be leaving her phone there while elsewhere; and

2. She might be having sex at her friend's house, with or without her friend present.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

MSP said:


> By the way, you base your assumption that she is safely at her friend's house on that FriendFinder app. Two things:
> 
> 1. She knows what the app does and might deliberately be leaving her phone there while elsewhere; and
> 
> 2. She might be having sex at her friend's house, with or without her friend present.


She may be having an affair and may be not. Do you have a friend that could stake out the house to see who comes or goes when your wife is there?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Think of me as one of the chief intel officers here. 27 cheating wives and 1 cheating husband hate me and they have no idea.

Lets lay your odds. Im a numbers man.
EA light. She has a target. 70%
EA she is acively flirting texting him... 55%
PA light kissing 51%
PA sex. 33%.

Not sure on going full 007 yet... But act quickly. Time is NOT on your side.

What time did the GNO end and where was it? (Dance club, bar... )
Was bitter friend at gNo? How many other friends?
What is rhe exact timing between the gno and her changing hermind about counseling?
What is the exact timing between friend divorce and her changing her mind about counseling?
Ill think of more but typing on this damn ipad is gonna drive me batty.

Most important thing.
KEEP your mouth SHUT. Half azzed confronts are suicide and you got nothing yet!!!!! It may be nothing. 

But my radar is locked hard on that friend of hers!

Time is of the essence. Do what i tell you when i tell you to do it. Dont argue. Execute.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

When she went out on that gno. How hot was she dressed? Sexy underwear? Did she shower or change panties or liner immediately upon coming home? Has she lost weight? More makeup? Hotter?

What about hotter at other times?

Last gno before that timing? What time did she get back on that one?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

FVCK! skipped the last paragraph about staying at friends.

Is it toxic divorced female friends house?

If yes. Red alert.
FVCK FVCK FVCK!!! DAMMIT! 
If yes, where is toxic friends house? (Distance not an address)
If yes follow the below.
Steel yourself. I went from hopeful to feeling for you. Im literally sick atm.

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history! 

Bringing John in for phone tech side. Do what he says. NOW!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

L & C,

You're sure your wife is not having an affair, I can tell you she is. No question. Maybe a girl, but most likely a guy. Women have a great deal of sexual fluidity, but its probably a guy anyway.



lost_and_confused said:


> So here's my story - We've been married for 15 years and together for about 3 years before that. ... We spent all our time together....Our sex life really went downhill from then on.
> 
> My own libido really seemed to drop hard somewhere in those years as well


Testosterone in guys peaks and plateaus at 25, starts dropping at 35 to the point where, unless you're lifting regularly, you begin to actually start losing muscle mass. The drop in libido is a key indicator that your testosterone was nosediving. Get it checked. Fatigue, soft muscle, and more fat on the waist are more clues to dropping testosterone. Go have them work up a T panel on you. You're probably going to be shocked at the results. You can get definitely raise it by changing your workout, eating, and sleeping habits, but you need to see that you have a problem.

Whatever the number is, the doc will tell you your levels are "normal." Get the number and we'll discuss what it means. In the meantime, get 9-10 hours of sleep every night, switch to a paleo diet, and start lifting with an all-body program, thee days per week. You can either do HIT (1 set to total failure each exercise) or HVT (3-4 sets each), they both work about the same in the absence of anabolics. For Test stimulation purposes, concentrate on compound lifts. Do 6-8 exercises, same ones every time. I do HIT, cause the workout is a huge timesaver. I also take 100mg of DHEA and 6 tspn of cod liver oil daily. This will get your test levels going back up.



lost_and_confused said:


> I also started having problems with erectile dysfunction.


I know from reading ahead that you think this is psychological, but nowadays it's understood that it's almost always physical. That's why viagra, et al can do what it does. This can also be an issue with low testosterone. I know a couple of guys who went on boner drugs and got nothing until they got the testosterone levels out of the basement.

Question: When you were/are having erection problems, were you still waking up at night with a hard on or morning wood?



lost_and_confused said:


> I did try to bring it up with her a couple of times and she shrugged it off saying i was fine.


she was fine with the impotence, because she really didn't want you plowing her anyway. Your wife was already vaguely detaching, probably completely unconsciously, due to your waning sexual aura. It's that testosterone thing. See, as you get fatter and fatter, your testosterone production declines and your estrogen production rises. Get leaner and the reverse occurs. It's a very bad feedback loop and it does have a huge effect on your relationship.




lost_and_confused said:


> She's become good friends with the girls in her masters program, though they are all from away (it's distance education).


What is she studying?



lost_and_confused said:


> She started spending tons of time on her phone, texting and messaging her friends.


Are her phone friends younger and single?



lost_and_confused said:


> Any time we were alone without the kids, she would be on her phone texting, hardly ever paying full attention to me.


You made a huge mistake tolerating this. Quit doing it now. Don't discuss it other than to take her phone and say "hey, you're rude. Put this away when I'm with you."



lost_and_confused said:


> She even does it in front of other people. We have friends over and she's on her phone texting half the time.


She's really checked out of her real life and prefers fantasy land. Better get the phone and go through the history. Compare the activity with the statement and see what's been deleted and what numbers get the heavy texting.



lost_and_confused said:


> That was the past 2 years or so. Fastforward to 3 weeks ago. She comes home early from work and says *we have to talk*. She talks about the sex problems and how she can't live like that any more. She wants us to go to counselling.


Four words no married man wants to hear, ever. Counseling is suggested by women because they have specific beefs, like you're beating her up or shooting H in front of her. Or #2, to try to address the vague feeling of "I'm not haaaapy" that precedes most of their sexual infidelities, or #3, as a way of punching the I-went-to-counseling ticket prior to the divorce. You're at #2 or #3. Since she came home form work early, it was probably #3, sparked by a huge guilt attack from the night before or the nooner she got over her lunch break. This is all standard operating procedure.



lost_and_confused said:


> I agree immediately. I want to do all i can to get her back. In the span of the next 2 days, I have a counselling session and went to my dr and got viagra to see if that helped (he sent me for tests first so it took a couple weeks to get the pills). For the next week or so, i worked hard at intimacy with her. It's all very sincere and I only had to work to get over the problem of ED, which was fine. She was fine to do other stuff other than intercourse.


Umm. No. You really lowered yourself in her eyes when you failed to fix your d!ck at the first sign of trouble. Man. Seriously? How much time went by? Women get turned on by you being unable to keep your pants on in their presence. They call this "passion" for some reason. They like it. You being happy for a period of years with no rigid tool? You killed yourself.



lost_and_confused said:


> Anyway, the day I come home from dr from getting test results and a prescription, she says she no longer wants to go to our counsellor but that she needs to see a psychologist.


When you became impotent, it was no big deal to her, since you were already failing to bring it home. Your long term satisfaction with being impotent, confirmed her assessment. Just because you got the tool working again, maybe, doesn't change the fact that she still doesn't want you doing her. She's already got somebody to handle that job.



lost_and_confused said:


> I'm very very hurt by this since we really need to get help together as well as individually. She doesn't want to do anything together right now. She says she has to figure out herself first.


Q: What does a married woman need to figure out? 
A: Whether or not the guy she's screwing is actually a good bet to move in with. Blowing up the family is a big step, but she's already giving you a version of the ILYBINILWY, so she's there. She just needs time to find the right guy. Monkeys don't let go of one vine until they have a firm grip on the next one.



lost_and_confused said:


> She says that she's confused and doesn't know if she loves me any more.


There you go. In cheaterspeak, that means:

"I've been getting buffed by another guy(s) and I have a huge surge of dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin and other chemicals that give me a very addictive crack-like high every time I climax. I climax a lot with this guy(s), because affair sex is the hottest sex there is, because it's forbidden. Then I get a surge of bonding chemistry, oxytocin and vasopressin, in the afterglow that make be want to be with boyfriend(s) 24/7. If I can't be with them physically, then texting and naughty pictures I take of my privates with my phone while I'm locked in the bathroom will do."



lost_and_confused said:


> That's why she's at the psychologist because she doesn't want to do the wrong thing, act on a feeling that she isn't completely sure about.


No, she's at the psychologist because the MC was probably going to figure out the affair and call her on it. The psychologist was probably recommended by her friends as someone who could validate her decision to cuckold you, screw you over financially, and blow up the marriage. It's what shrinks do.



lost_and_confused said:


> I'm a completely mess. I went from being very optimistic (the day i came home with viagra) to being completely depressed. I've been like this for about a week now. Today she said she didn't know if she still loves me. She also says she doesn't remember what we were like in the first 10 years or so that we were together.


that's because her "rationalization hamster" is busy 24/7 rewriting the marriage history to justify her adultery. Again, this is old hat, standard operating procedure for the adulterous human female. Women don't say these things until they've already spread them, because they have to justify their misdeeds to themselves.



lost_and_confused said:


> She doesn't remember how we always wanted to be together all the time.


That's because her memory is one track, and the train that's on it is the hot sex she had while she's been going out five nights a week. It's like crack and she's hooked on it.



lost_and_confused said:


> I don't know what to do. She wants time.


Forget about time. You're Canadian right? Repeat after me:

"No time left for you, on my way to better things. 
No time. 
No time. 
No time."



lost_and_confused said:


> It's going to take a long time for her to figure out her stuff with her psychologist. I don't know how i'm going to be able to make it that long. It's not that i need it to be fixed tomorrow, but i need us to be going to counselling, both individually and together.


No time, man. You have to grow a pair tonight. It's probably too late to fix, but you've been driving her away with your displays of low male value for a long time. She's gone, but there is a tiny sliver of opportunity to try. Individual counseling for her is about getting validation and being able to say she tried everything before she reveals the current AP to her family and the friends who aren't already in the know. Any counseling you do, needs to be about how to man up. Good luck finding a counselor who will do that.



lost_and_confused said:


> But she doesn't want to. I also have no one to talk to about this stuff since my best friend is also a really good friend of hers from when they were small. I really can't talk to him because I don't want him to get a bad impression of her at all. I love her so much. I still don't like being away from her at all. She's gone out 5 nights of the past 7 (and 2 of those were overnight at a friend's). I just don't know what to do!!


It sounds like its way too late, but this is what to do (and discuss none of it with your wife, even if she asks):

1. Start doing the stuff I told you to in order to raise your testosterone and get your T levels checked. You need to get in the absolute best shape of your life. Get a six pack. That's even more important than building muscle at this point. You also need to maximize your shoulder width. 

2. Put a VAR under her car seat. Velcro it up under there. Test it. Weightlifter can tell you what works best. Adultresses like to talk on their phones while commuting.

3. GPS her car. I don't care about find my iPhone, GPS it anyway. Speaking of the phone, look at the bill and find out the numbers she's constantly texting and put a name with each of the heavy traffic numbers. Get the phone when she's asleep and go through it. Well, you'll probably find that she's got it locked down, put that's just more proof.

4. Change your wardrobe so you're dressing 10 years younger and two levels higher. Even when you're working at home. If you don't know get on the web and get educated. Google for "straight male fashion 2014" or something along those lines.

5. Quit being the maid. I don't care if you are home. You're screwing up very deeply ingrained role perceptions going back to the time before the Hyborean Age. this lowers your male sex rank in your wife's eyes and she despises you deep down.

6. Change your haircut to something completely different. Cut it, grow it, dye it, just make it opposite of what you have now as much as possible. This will alarm your wife. Just say, I felt like making a change. Change your facial hair. Start wearing cologne. I don't care if you like it. It's a statement.

7. If you possibly can, trade for a single guys car, or at least something a single guy would be willing to drive. Hot Rod, muscle car, etc.

8. Quit talking about the relationship; guys who do that are a huge turn-off to women. they think they want that, but when they get it, it's "icky poo, why am I with this loser?" In fact, quit talking to her at all, other than about the kids and what they are going to be eating for dinner. This will alarm your wife.

9. Start going out about three nights a week, wearing your new clothes on your 46" chest, six pack, and 32" waist, driving your throbbing mustang, wearing your cologne, and sporting your new haircut. Your wife will go ape.

10. Since you have no intention of changing your behavior to anything like the above, see a family law attorney as soon as possible. You've got a divorce in your future, as soon as she gets tired of toying with you. She and her AP are both getting off on your cluelessness, but their amusement is rapidly turning to disgust as you continue to deny the reality that she's spelled out for you.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I outlined exact makes and models of VARs and exactly how to do it.

GET ON THIS TOMORROW MORNING FIRST EFFING THING!

Oh and reiterating my warning. If you hear her on the VAR getting busy with another man. STOP listening and have a friend do it. Actually hearing it will destroy you in ways you can not BEGIN to fathom far beyond simple knowledge she is screwing another man!


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Please please please OP.

Please heed the words of weightlifter and Mach. Winning back your wife is over. Put it out of your mind. If you do these things you can fix yourself both physically and emotionally. You can also protect yourself against whatever BS will likely come out of her mouth about the marriage or about what she is doing right now.

Show strength for your 2 boys, and for you!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The ONLY way I've seen men get their wives back in a case like this is to act SWIFTLY, decisively, strongly, and showing NO WEAKNESS. 

The woman HAS to see you face to face, looking her in the eyes, telling her "If you don't want me, I'll help you pack. Right now. I'll get someone better."

You will IMMEDIATELY rise up the ranks of who she wants to #1.

But only if you have the cajones to do this.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Just to add another piece of info I need.

Give me a timeline of these GNOs by date and which ones were over nights. Also where is she in her monthly cycle? Get me that info and the previous info request.

From those I will be able to give you a 90% accurate timeline of everything. Ive predicted how an affair went with stunning accuracy a number of times.

Sorry guy. Get on buying the Vars and GPS. Ill have enough for you to make a 100% sure decision withing a weekish.


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

lost_and_confused said:


> I'm pretty sure. We have that find friends app on our phones. We can each see where the other one is any time. SHe's always been where she said she was, at her friend's house usually.


Using the find friends on iPhone is far from sufficient. In fact, as another poster here has said, she can leave her iPhone at her friends house and be off and about.

When she is at her friends house, CALL her cell when you see she's there. She should have no reason to not answer. If she doesn't answer, but she replies to texts, I'd see that as a red flag. It's not evidentiary, but it is a hmmmmm moment indeed.

Do you have access to the account - that is, the online records with the cell carrier? Do you have access to that iPhone to see the texts, to see the call records. To compare the texts on the phone to the record online - anything deleted? iPhone can be confusing, because of the iMessage feature, which does not show up as a text online, it's not seen as an SMS.

Please provide all info you can about the iPhone - model, carrier, is it password protected? Do you have access to it? Do you have access to the carrier records (to pay the bill, etc). keep in mind, she may have a burner phone - when you get the chance, youll need to maybe do her a favor and taker her car to get a car wash, then while out, comb over the car looking for a burner phone...

We can get deleted texts off of an iPhone. It's challenging, but can be done. And there are ways to get real-time records of sent/received texts using software that is not visible on the iPhone itself. It's 007 time...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP introducing John. Our phone guy. I've seen some of his behind the scenes stuff doing with phones.

Weightlifter says:
Impressive


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