# Separated for 2 months!! Am Hopeful!! Still need advice!!



## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

All,

I have been separated from my wife for 2 months now. We have a 2 yr. old daughter who spends 50% time with me as the result of separation.

When we separated the 'major' issues my wife had were:
1.) I was over-controlling
2.) I was disrespectful to her and her actions/decisions
3.) Lack of attention towards her personal issues

She said she needed time out as she wasn't able to breathe/think properly living under the same roof. I was in denial to her decision at first but later I thought it would be best for her to get some time out. When we separated, she promised to work on the marriage by whatever means possible (counseling etc.) especially because our daughter was involved.

Its been almost 2 months now. We had 2/3 discussions, all initiated by me, where I went ahead and tried to own the responsibility of my actions in the past. I said to her that I had realized how serious the issues were which could force her to move out. I apologized of being ignorant/inconsiderate about things.

But she always came attacking me and disrespectfully dismissing all my apologies/requests. Instead she claims that I haven't even understood what her real issues are. When I ask her that if I haven't understood the real issues then why don't you tell me plain and straight. She doesn't do that either, rather she goes back in the past again and starts shouting/crying blaming me for everything I did in the past. Looks like she is still very angry with me and hence all the discussions end up in emotional outbursts. She said I was never there for her.

Now, something about me. I am a normal avg. guy, very intelligent/smart but a little lazy. I tried to provide everything I could for the family, never wasted any money, never had any affair. But I believe I was disrespectful to her and her decisions. I guess I didn't let her take any common decisions like which car to buy, which insurance to choose etc.
because I thought she was incapable of doing that. I know my wife is a smart working woman but somehow I couldn't approve of her thought process about how to take care of things because in my mind her choices were more expensive and not fully thought of. And I was mostly right based on a few decisions that I let her take.

What I see now is that even though her choices were not upto the mark with me I should have let her take charge of certain things. I guess she was loosing her mind as she started to feel useless and dumb. I have realized this now and am ready for a fresh start where I can give her all she wants and may be live together happily ever after.

My biggest issue is how to cool her down so that at least she agrees to start communicating and working on the issues we have. I am very hopeful that she will see changes in me and will come back, but the first hurdle to soften her heart towards me seems to be the biggest challenge I have ever faced in my life.

I love her and love our child so much that I can't imagine living w/o them. I know I will get back together w/ them but its so hard for me now to live w/o them.

I am really concerned about my wife's vulnerable situation. I see a lot of guys taking advantage of a woman in this condition and run away after having an affair. I know my wife is smart and won't do it until she is absolutely certain of not coming back to me. What should I do? If I talk about all this my wife can take it as a disrespect towards her, or may become adamant to do it out of spite.

Please advise!! I am dying to get into my wife's shoes and think like she is thinking!!

Thanks


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

the reasons for separation are so familiar, i thought i'd chime in.

time...it heals.

space...it helps.

you'll learn to hate those two words...time...space.

space means don't necessarily be the one to bring up the "why's"...

just let her ponder her reasons.

space sometimes means don't "be there" for her. you will want to "be there" because that was one of her complaints. just wait for her to ask you to be there, then do it.

the vulnerability you worry about...don't. she's cool. it comes with her independence. it works in the opposite way that you think.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks voivod for your kind words.

1.) What do you think my wife's situation is? I mean what can I do for her to realize that I am 'working very hard' on what I believe the issues are?
2.) based on my story, what do you think about reconciliation ? She had a long discussion w/ me recently when she cried a lot, is it a sign that she is still soft at her heart to let me back in? Or otherwise ?

Women out there, please help out!!


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

mikey said:


> Thanks voivod for your kind words.
> 
> 1.) What do you think my wife's situation is? I mean what can I do for her to realize that I am 'working very hard' on what I believe the issues are?
> 2.) based on my story, what do you think about reconciliation ? She had a long discussion w/ me recently when she cried a lot, is it a sign that she is still soft at her heart to let me back in? Or otherwise ?
> ...


the only thing i believe that you can "do" is live it. be the man regarding the issues.

i'm going to hold back on my opinions about reconciliation. there are those that feel i'm close to reconciliation. i don't recognize it, so i'm just floating along.

her crying could be one of a few things. maybe she's truly sad about the separation. maybe she's sad because she realizes this is the beginning of an end. hey, maybe she's clinically depressed. i like to think she's softening. just live the changes. it'll become more apparent as time goes by. there's that word again...time.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

I don't understand this -- What women want ??
I wish I had Mel Gibson's power of reading a woman's mind.

Q: She knows that I am sincere and have understood the biggest of her concerns, then why can't she think of working it out with me. I know she won't be happy loosing me forever, loosing the dad to her kid forever, loosing the beautiful house we have, loosing everything we have earned/built during the last 10 years.

Why can't she see the changes in me? What do I do to show these changes to her?


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

mikey said:


> I wish I had Mel Gibson's power of reading a woman's mind.


ha! no you don't.



mikey said:


> Q: She knows that I am sincere and have understood the biggest of her concerns, then why can't she think of working it out with me. I know she won't be happy loosing me forever, loosing the dad to her kid forever, loosing the beautiful house we have, loosing everything we have earned/built during the last 10 years.?


you don't know "what she knows" dude. i promise you. because "what she knows" led you to where you are. you don't know "why she can't think of working it out with you." time...don't be impatient. don't put a timeline on it man. you might be on the right track.


mikey said:


> Why can't she see the changes in me? What do I do to show these changes to her?


maybe she CAN see the changes.

and the one thing you need to do to show her the changes is...show her. live it! patience...time...space...


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks again voivod.

I would really like some ladies to comment on my posting so I can understand my wife's situation.

Thanks


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree with the time and space. Back off and don't appear needy. She sounds like she may be confused, give her time to sort things out. Don't contantly talk about the relationship. Appear to be happy, calm and confident. It will be attractive to her.


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

Give her some space. Seriously, don't go there. If you want her to understand that you've changed, then CHANGE and don't let it have anything to do with her! Let go of some of that control. Don't SHOW her that you're changing, just DO IT and she will see. After all, you see each other because of your child. Don't TRY right now while she's attempting to catch her breath and remember who she was when she was confident and capable of thinking clearly. I'm being really blunt and honest with you because you share traits with my DH, and you've got me thinking. Really, what could he do to make me believe that we could be happy together again? Well, be very clear with her. Communicate things very distinctly, and don't 'mention things in passing'. DO NOT be ambiguous or confuse her. She's having enough trouble thinking clearly and remembering how to make decisions. 
Be flexible. My DH practically hands me a script when I talk to my ex on the phone about the kids. He tells me what to say all the time to all sorts of people, like he thinks I will say the wrong thing, or forget to mention something that HE thinks is important. I would bet that you do this to your wife as well, and DON'T. Let her say what's on her mind, especially when she's not even talking to you. 
Believe in her. This is a BIG one. Honestly, how is she supposed to be fulfilled with a relationship when she feels 'dumb' and 'useless'? People in relationships are supposed to boost each other up, but what it seems like you (and my DH) have become accustomed to doing is stepping on her to get up higher. 

I hate to say this straight out, but what you have described is emotional abuse. It is going to take a LONG time to heal. It would have been easier if you'd just hit her. Black eyes heal in a week or so. Psychological effects of emotional abuse take years to get over. I'm sorry if I come across rudely because I really am being honest. 
She probably is really mad at you, and will be for quite a while. Forgiving is an act of self-love, letting go of anger and resentment is something she does for herself, not for you. She'll be angry at you until she loves herself again.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks ladies. Really appreciate your comments.

EasySilence, I have posted my comments on your thread, please check them out. And, please keep giving me guidance as your case is very similar to mine.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Confusion::

1.) My wife said she would work on the marriage after separation especially because our daughter is involved, and she seemed very honest about it.

2.) after 2 weeks of separation, when I asked she said she wasn't ready or feeling anything that might influence her to start working on it.

3.) after 4/5 weeks, when I showed some improvements she said I won't change to the extent she wanted me to so there was no point working on the marriage. She claimed I still didn't understand her real issues.

4.) When I jotted everything down and told her what I thought were her issues. She accepted that I got the issues right. But, now she says that even if I change she won't accept me because I am not her soulmate.

I am totally confused now. Looks like the faster I am showing improvements the farther away she is going from me. It seems as if she is scared that after I change she will have to accept me back, thats why she is always coming up with new excuses to convince me that we are not suited.

What can I do now? Every time I meet her I go through a lot of emotional pain and trauma.

help!!


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## mistake maker (Aug 7, 2009)

this is going to to be really hard to do. set boundiars for when you see and talk to each other. The only time you talk or see each other is then, unless it is an emergence to do wife your child. This will give you both some space. Then when you do see or talk to each other, she might see that you are truely changing.


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

Hi Mikey~

I do not post a lot on here anymore as my H and I are currently separated and I often feel guilty giving advice, but this thread struck me due to the similarities.

My H is/was like you. He made all the financial decisions, vacation decisions, car purchases, what to do with tax refunds, everything. He had to be the one in control. It got to the point where I felt like I was unequal in the partnership. I cannot tell you how badly this affected my self esteem and self worth. 

Now, I am a smart individual. I graduated high school a year early, went on to graduate college with a business degree, yet he somehow thought I was so stupid and my decisions were so insignificant, that he failed to include me.

We are separated now due to another element, physical abuse. He has promised the moon wanting reconciliation, but only talks the talk. Fails to arrange counseling appointments and reverts to his old ways when things are not how he wants them. He is a control freak and thinks that in six months of separation, I am just magically supposed to get over the 12 yrs of pain I have endured. He also thinks that new shoes, a vacation, etc are all his way of showing change. Well I did not pick out the shoes or the vacation or anything else. You see Mikey, I lost my voice in the relationship because his voice was the loud one. Now I am fighting to keep it together, but I don't know that it will happen.

My advice is to make the changes, but make them for you and your child. Not for her or to show her how great you can be. And make the changes last. DO NOT put a time limit on anything. She has lots to heal from, rather enjoy getting to know each other again. I wish you all the best!


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

StrongEnough,

I really appreciate your comments. Seems like this 'control freak' stuff is not a rare thing even though it may not be very common.

few different points I can mention about me here:
1.) I have never abused her physically, rather I got the beating couple of times when she got very angry.

2.) I have changed and am trying hard to be that way. I am doing all my duties i.e. taking care of the house, honoring her requests about our arrangement with our daughter etc.

My concerns are:
1.) I am afraid that if she doesn't show any positive signs, I may have to surrender one day as financially it won't be possible for me to keep the house, the mortgage is heavy and she has stopped contributing. 
2.) Even if I leave the financial issues, it is very hard to keep going like this without any signs of hope. I don't know how long I can do this, may be a few months, may be a little more but eventually I will break down.

I would really like help from people who have been there done that. I really want to know what my wife's real feelings are, 

1.) is she just confused or 
2.) she really wants to 'not try any further' or 
3.) she really wants to go out and explore the world for a better partner w/o giving this marriage a chance it deserves

Folks, I would really appreciate your comments.
Thanks


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

mikey said:


> StrongEnough,
> 
> I really appreciate your comments. Seems like this 'control freak' stuff is not a rare thing even though it may not be very common.
> 
> ...


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks again StrongEnough. You give me hope.

1.) She doesn't contribute as she earns barely enough to sustain the apt. she rented. Even though she has lots of savings but I guess she thinks that the house isn't hers because I controlled e'thing in the house, so why would she contribute.

I really hope she gets back into thinking that I can change for good.


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

mikey said:


> 1.) I have never abused her physically, rather I got the beating couple of times when she got very angry.


This is actually very common for victims of emotional abuse. I've gone nuts a few times myself. Not hitting so much as throwing things or he'll take something away from me and I'll go ape-**** trying to get it back. Dumb, I know but oh well. 

So I really agree with the concept that you need to make changes for YOU and not for her. That, and leave her alone. If you need to talk to her about the kids, make it brief and end it there. 
SHE NEEDS THIS. 
The more you try to prove to her you're changing, the less she's going to buy it. 
Oh, and another thing that you're doing right now (in her eyes, IMO) is pushing because you're not getting your way. I'm sorry if I'm harsh but chances are good that this is what she's thinking. 

From what I read here, if it was me, I would feel like you're pushing me to make decisions and give you firm answers in YOUR time and on YOUR terms, and crying 'poor me' when you don't get them. 
And I'm so sorry, but you have to start considering the possibility, especially after two months I would say, that she has already moved on emotionally. 
But on the same token, if you've been pestering her for the past two months then if you really and truly leave her alone for a while you might see her gravitating back toward you after a while.


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

mikey said:


> Thanks again StrongEnough. You give me hope.
> 
> 1.) She doesn't contribute as she earns barely enough to sustain the apt. she rented. Even though she has lots of savings but I guess she thinks that the house isn't hers because I controlled e'thing in the house, so why would she contribute.
> 
> I really hope she gets back into thinking that I can change for good.


Well Mikey, that brings up another issue. My husband and I separated, but I stay in the martial home. His home, as he has always said because he paid the mortgage, while I stayed at home with the kids. Now he still pays the bills here, but says I free load. I work 15 hrs a week and go to nursing school. His need to control things now is limited to only financial and thus he won't hand me over child support or any money when I come up short without throwing it in my face for the next several months. Rather, he will pay my car payment and say its my child support

I bring this up to ask you, were you controlling with money? Are you now? I understand you have the stress of making the mortgage payment yourself. Really think about this. 

Not trying to hijack your thread here, but I am trying to give you some insight into what your wife may be thinking. I often feel like what I want or need is not important to my H. If he doesn't want to do it or see any benefit for him, he refuses. An example, he watched the kids on Wednesday for me to go to school at my house. I came home to find all the laundry waiting to be done, had to cook lunch and dinner, and neither child had received a bath. Why, because he was playing video games all morning. Told me cleaning was my job because he doesn't live here. On Wed, I go to school 6 hours and then work 5 hours. Would it have killed him to do something to make my life easier?

We are six months into the separation now, and honestly, I am becoming more and more convinced that he isn't able to really make the changes. The first few months, he was amazing, but he grew tired of putting on an act quickly. Please don't do that. Make the changes and make em stick. She has a lot of doubt in you now.


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

easysilence said:


> This is actually very common for victims of emotional abuse. I've gone nuts a few times myself. Not hitting so much as throwing things or he'll take something away from me and I'll go ape-**** trying to get it back. Dumb, I know but oh well.
> 
> So I really agree with the concept that you need to make changes for YOU and not for her. That, and leave her alone. If you need to talk to her about the kids, make it brief and end it there.
> SHE NEEDS THIS.
> ...


:iagree::iagree: The more you push for things to go your way, the less she will feel you respect her and her needs.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I would imagine she feels as if she has lost herself somewhere along the way in your marriage and wants that back. She may not even be able to put a finger on what that is right now, but being separated may be the only way she feels she can really find that out.

She may also feel unloved, unappreciated. ie 'if he really loved me, he would support and encourage me. Instead, he ignores my feelings and does what he wants.' There is somewhat of a catch-22 in this because sudden in-her-face change...if you talk about your changes, etc. might make her think 'again, he's saying all of these things for himself, to get me to come back, so he will feel secure again.' 

She probably wants the husband that she fantasizes about...that hangs on her every word, finds her interesting, beautiful and smiles just thinking about her....and may feel at this point, it's too little too late to happen for the two of you.

I think the biggest impact you can make is to really look at your marriage...do you want to be that guy? Not for a month or two, but want to fully enjoy life with her, because she's in it? If she can begin to see that side of you, not because you force it on her but because you really have had an epiphony of sorts 'hey, I just want to make her happy!'...you may start to see signs of hope.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

again thanks to all of you.

StrongEnough,
1.) I guess I have different issues than your H. I usually take care of my kid very well, I try to take care of house chores when I can and when I saw my wife working late or something.
2.) But I guess I am boring which may have been a turn off for my wife. I have very restricted friend circle and am not that social. I guess I got so preoccupied with everyday life that I stopped being cheerful/happy/funloving. I always had a worry about one thing or the other. For example if we go to a park I will instruct my wife to be careful and attentive with our kid, so my concentration was always towards prevent something bad, but usually bad things don't happen that often which I didn't learn.
3.) I can't say I am handsome but I guess I am not bad looking, but I guess my wife started seeing me as a boring person who is always panicking about one thing or the other, she thinks I am weak, mental strength not physical. 

Now, what my problem was that I kept worrying about things which happen to people everyday but didn't happen to us that often e.g. Bad Economy/layoffs, theft, child accidents... And I guess most of my worries were finance related even though we were doing good, now that we are spending so much due to maintaining 2 residences, and since this separation has shocked me completely, I have started to cool down and not worry about things. 

But my real question is:
Since I was boring/panicky kind of person, how would I show her that I have changed. She is so prejudiced about me that she always claims I would never change. Can a boring man be interesting to her in the future and give her some mental sexual stimulation?


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

mikey said:


> again thanks to all of you.
> 
> StrongEnough,
> 1.) I guess I have different issues than your H. I usually take care of my kid very well, I try to take care of house chores when I can and when I saw my wife working late or something.
> ...


I agree you have different issues. We all have our own issues. 
To answer your questions, yes I think she can find you interesting again. I think she probably does, but is scared. Think outside the box and do something new and different.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

I got so much support and hope from you ladies, I really appreciate this.
StrongEnough, you really gave me hope!!
EasySilence, you helped me understand my bad side, I really appreciate your blunt comments ;-)
Sweedish, You are encouranging...

One more Q for today, I promise its my last one for the day:

She has agreed to go to my therapist for a common session, but she claims that she is going there only to help me resolve my personal issues and that it has nothing to do with her getting back into things to work on the marriage. Now, my question is whether I should really bother her by taking her to this session or just simply politely tell her to wait until she really thinks she may want to start working on the marriage.

Thanks


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

mikey said:


> I got so much support and hope from you ladies, I really appreciate this.
> StrongEnough, you really gave me hope!!
> EasySilence, you helped me understand my bad side, I really appreciate your blunt comments ;-)
> Sweedish, You are encouranging...
> ...


It takes two to make the marriage work. While you have faults you readily admit, she is much more cautious to admit hers. She wants to go there because she wants you to fix what she thinks is wrong with you. She is hesitant to look at it as a "together" session because she does not want you to think that it will all be fixed with a few counseling sessions. 

If she has said she will go, then take that and let her know when the session is. If she participates that is great. If not, she may not be fully ready to forgive. I do not think it will do harm to take her to the already agreed upon session.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

mikey said:


> But my real question is:
> Since I was boring/panicky kind of person, how would I show her that I have changed. She is so prejudiced about me that she always claims I would never change. Can a boring man be interesting to her in the future and give her some mental sexual stimulation?


Ummm, let's see...if I were single and looking at a dating profile and a guy described himself as 'boring/panicky'...hmmmm, no thanks...but to be honest, I could probably fit that description sometimes too, my h as well.

I definitely think when your world is turned upsidedown, you are forced outside of that comfort zone, so even though you may not feel you are in the greatest state of mind right now, it is forcing you to let go of some control. 

When that happens to me, I tend to be able to better look at what is really important to me. Do something adventurous with your kids...(not saying sky diving!) but something that your wife would be happily surprised to see you do.

Find that playful, fun side of yourself and bring him out of the closet...doesn't have to be over the top, just light-hearted and fun...like 'christmas in july'....put up the tree and watch christmas movies with your kids.

Do not appear panicky/anxious around her. If bringing her to your session will show her that side of you, I'd pass for the time being. 

If she happens to hear...we had fun with dad yesterday, we did this or that...from your kids, she may begin to think...hmmm, never thought I'd see the day....definitely don't involve the kids...not meaning that, but if you change for you, she will begin to get some sense of it.

Maybe think back of some of your conversations...where she might have talked about her day, what she did w/the kids, etc. where your first response was negative...where you might have been focused on something that made you worried or anxious....replay those types of conversations in your head...how could you respond if your goal was to make her smile...you know, the real kind of loving smile


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

If she's already agreed to go with you then you guys should go. Maybe having her there really WILL help you resolve some of your personal issues. It might open her eyes to these changes you've been making as well. 

I have to say this: I would imagine that a woman that goes to the park with her family for a fun afternoon does NOT enjoy being 'instructed' to do ANYTHING! You're at a park! And seriously, how would you feel if she had the attitude that she had the right to give you 'instruction' on how to act. Why don't you let her just act how she wants to act? Do you really think she's incapable of acting appropriately without your instruction?!?

*Sorry, I'm projecting. I do that sometimes.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

easysilence said:


> If she's already agreed to go with you then you guys should go. Maybe having her there really WILL help you resolve some of your personal issues. It might open her eyes to these changes you've been making as well.
> 
> I have to say this: I would imagine that a woman that goes to the park with her family for a fun afternoon does NOT enjoy being 'instructed' to do ANYTHING! You're at a park! And seriously, how would you feel if she had the attitude that she had the right to give you 'instruction' on how to act. Why don't you let her just act how she wants to act? Do you really think she's incapable of acting appropriately without your instruction?!?
> 
> *Sorry, I'm projecting. I do that sometimes.


:iagree:
I wouldn't be able to hold back the evil look issed:


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

easysilence said:


> If she's already agreed to go with you then you guys should go. Maybe having her there really WILL help you resolve some of your personal issues. It might open her eyes to these changes you've been making as well.
> 
> I have to say this: I would imagine that a woman that goes to the park with her family for a fun afternoon does NOT enjoy being 'instructed' to do ANYTHING! You're at a park! And seriously, how would you feel if she had the attitude that she had the right to give you 'instruction' on how to act. Why don't you let her just act how she wants to act? Do you really think she's incapable of acting appropriately without your instruction?!?
> 
> *Sorry, I'm projecting. I do that sometimes.


I agree too :iagree: I was wrong, and I guess I am changed to not do this again. The million $ q is whether or not she would give me another chance. I feel like I won't ever be able to love anyone or be loved if she leaves me


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## Airee (Aug 16, 2009)

mikey said:


> I agree too :iagree: I was wrong, and I guess I am changed to not do this again. The million $ q is whether or not she would give me another chance. I feel like I won't ever be able to love anyone or be loved if she leaves me



Oh! That deserves a hug! When my hubby and I fight, I feel the same way as your wife. I automatically grab for the keys and want to make a run for it. My hubby goes nuts and does anything to make me stay but has learned I'll be better after a drive. When I get home, he has a note written for me, stating all his feelings. We both express ourselves better in written letter's than anything. I don't always agree with him, but am so touched. He will sometimes bring out our first date, or the first time he saw me and how he felt (something he rarely talks about), but it makes me feel as if though I'm his world. Women want the man to put the world at their feet and make them feel special sometimes, especially when they don't feel loved/paid attention to. 
Your first post is golden. You need to write her a letter along the same lines of your first post. Write to her, how she makes you feel, how you'll feel if you lose her. How you want to change. How you want it all to work out. How you're worried about growing apart. You need to make her feel as if though she is the only one that matters, which shouldn't be too hard Mikey, since it's true, I can tell from your posts!

Go do it, now!

A :rofl: (I love smiley faces)


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## Airee (Aug 16, 2009)

One last thing, a letter in the good old style, on lined paper, in ink, in your hand-writing. Don't forget the roses/orchids/her favorite flower, Mikey!


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks e'one. I am thrilled to see your responses.

Airee, I have done e'thing to cool her down including writing a letter, sending mails, going in person and talking to her, but she hasn't cooled down yet. I guess it will take time.

So, now I want to just relax and don't do anything that concerns her. Rather I would concentrate on me and the kid, and pray to God that He makes her see changes in me.

Thank you


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

mikey said:


> Thanks e'one. I am thrilled to see your responses.
> 
> Airee, I have done e'thing to cool her down including writing a letter, sending mails, going in person and talking to her, but she hasn't cooled down yet. I guess it will take time.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
Take the time and focus on yourself. Don't push her into seeing the changes. She will in time. Remember she too needs time to heal and be open to forgiveness.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!


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## mistake maker (Aug 7, 2009)

you are getting some great advice here Mikey. Listen to them, I am one that trys to fix things too fast. So I am always taken 2 steps forward then 3 back. Give her some space and work on you first.


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

mikey said:


> I feel like I won't ever be able to love anyone or be loved if she leaves me


It's freaking SCARY isn't it? I'm scared too about that. I can't IMAGINE ever being with anyone else. 

With my first husband (who ended up leaving me for his girlfriend) I could imagine being with someone else ALL the time. I dreamed about being with someone else and finding romance and stuff. 

This is different now. I get sick to my stomach at the thought of being with someone else. I also feel sick thinking about HIM with someone else.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Thank you all!! 

I have understood things better now and will work on them.

I am loosing hope though due to the reasons below:
1.) she said after marriage she never found me upto the mark with the qualities she expects in her partner. She said she was ready to compromise while she was still in the relationship but now since she is out she doesn't want to try anymore. 

She believes that even if I change I will never reach 100% of her expectations and this time around she wants no less even if that means she has to go w/o a man for the rest of her life. She is having this stalemate/soulmate theory which is bothering me a lot.

2.) I am just scared what if she finds someone who fits 100% of her expectations before she even starts seeing changes in me.

3.) I am loosing my mind which is causing me a lot of stress and my health deteriorated quite a bit in the last couple of months, hence it is going to take some time before I can really start showing changes that she wants to see.

I am just too much worried and not having any sleep these days. I guess I have to just work on it and pray to God.


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

mikey said:


> Thank you all!!
> 
> I have understood things better now and will work on them.
> 
> ...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Mikey,

I know it is hard. These situations are and you are getting good advice.

Remember that she is angry at you. When you are angry with someone, do you ever say something that you know will cut to the bone? I know I have done that. I didn't mean it, just knew it would hurt and wanting some payback you say things. It isn't necessarily a conscious decision - just instinct. So take most of those horrible statements with a grain of salt.

The it has to be 100% crap. Geez nice partner there. Think about that statement long and hard from this perspective. Do I really want to be with someone that has those expectations? Completely unrealistic and without any rational basis. 

And quit worrying about her reaction to everything. I know that is hard to do, but it is what it is. You can't control her reactions -- you can only control your reactions. You can control only you.

Change the dance. Back off, I mean really back off. Only talk regarding the child. Keep it pleasant but business only. No relationship talk.

Do your own thing. As Strongenough said you've got to start doing something -- exercise. You need to eat right and get as much sleep as you can. Even use Tylenol PM if needed. Not sleeping is what can ratchet up your mind. 

Only space can lessen her anger. This won't happen on any timeline - yours or hers. You need to look into yourself to discover you again. Right now you are trying to become what she wants. She can't make you change. But you can change and change her in the process. You need to re-establish your "Self". 

Doing these things won't necessarily bring about reconciliation. There are no guarantees. But the two of you will be forever connected by that child. You will never be "alone". You will always have her.


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## karajh (Jul 25, 2009)

mikey said:


> Thanks voivod for your kind words.
> 
> 1.) What do you think my wife's situation is? I mean what can I do for her to realize that I am 'working very hard' on what I believe the issues are?
> 2.) based on my story, what do you think about reconciliation ? She had a long discussion w/ me recently when she cried a lot, is it a sign that she is still soft at her heart to let me back in? Or otherwise ?
> ...


What are you DOING to show her that you have changed. I have come to find out that words are absolutely meaningless without actions to back them up! 

Don't try to trivialize her feelings by telling her you are working on the issues, my guess is this goes much deeper and has been going on much longer than you can ever imagine. SPACE and TIME will be the only way to tell that what will be. You cannot say for certain no matter how badly you want to, that you Will be back with her. You are actually NOT in control of the situation at this time and for people who like to feel in control this is one of the hardest things. 

As far as worrying about her with other men, why worry you cannot control this either. She is a grown woman with sense obviously and will figure out what she wants, if you even suggest to her that she should be careful she will go the other way. Work on yourself for you, and then maybe your marriage will follow.
I know she does not want to hear about your needs or how upset you are right now.. this is all about her right now so get used to it. 

I would not read to much into her crying and stuff at this time. She is going to be emotional and upset... separation does hurt both parties very much. So just listen and do not see that as a way in to manipulate her feelings towards being with you. She has to feel like this is a situation that she is making the decision own.

I am not trying to bring you down.. but I know from experience what I am saying is true.. 1 from being a woman and 2 from being separated. I don't think my marriage is going to work out.. but boy have I learned how to make myself better and know what I want next time around in a relationship!

Good LUCK


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Thank you Karajh and all the other folks who chipped in...I really appreciate this.

I have begun to do a little exercise which is certainly helping me clear my thinking process a little bit.

My wife may be detached at the moment because she had very high and sane expectations about relationships where a man solves every mystery for his lady, and me getting panicked in situations sent her the wrong msg that I was 'weak'. She says that I am weak, that hurts a lot but I guess I have to deal with it. I guess I was worried about things most guys get concerned about like financial responsibility etc, but the problem is that I shouldn't have shown/discussed every little issue I was having in life with my wife. I guess I never learned the 'sleep on it' phrase in my life, I got panicky in a lot of situations where the things turned around fine after some time, but I guess that gave my wife an impression that I was weak ;-(

Now that she has moved out, I am seeing the world in a totally different perspective where money and materialistic things don't matter anymore, and hence my 'worry scale' is at an all time low, may be even lower than when I was a young man of 21. My only worry right now is to 'somehow show her that I have changed and get her back'. May be its too late now but my gut feeling says that she will give me one more chance to get our life together, amen.

I was not a 'weak' man, went to Stanford, earn well, but I guess I never liked my job which kept me worried about loosing it, and that influenced my other decisions. I guess I was hit at a wrong time as I myself was going through the mid-life crisis when my wife moved out, but may be it will give me strength to fight back even more determined. 

I went on and on, but I guess I get some relief over here communicating with you folks. 

Thanks


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

I posted the below in my other thread 'Communication between her and I' this morning and thought would be good if I post this over here to get some opinion from you wise people...please respond, Thanks....

Its not that I don't want to see my daughter, she is the most precious thing in my life. But frankly speaking it seems my wife is not being fair, she claims I don't do much with the kid so I have no right to keep her 50% of the time, she keeps making plans for the days when the kid is with me and then asks me if she could take her to this activity and that, I humbly agree; but all this is giving me a signal that she is taking me too lightly and have started resenting her to certain extent.

1.) She never communicated her problems with me in a decent amicable environment, all I heard from her in the past few years were screaming and shouting. Moving out decision was hers. If she was so concerned about our daughter, why did she put our daughter through this at the first place.

2.) She said I had 'control' issues which bothered her the most. She is 'controlling' too now that I look back and see how she kept instructing me about our kid, kept telling me that my way of raising her was not right. I had to always agree to what she was saying and I guess that started 'resentment' which came out as shouting/screaming, first not that much but later all the time.

3.) That whole introspection has given me new light to see things clearly. I can see now that my wife may have had similar issues with me with respect to our child. Then why do I have to always plead guilty and bow down to her. I stopped mingling with my friends that she didn't like, I encouraged her to call her friends over to our place and entertained them, I guess I became too docile and she started to put more pressure on me which sometimes exploded in loud emotional outbursts.

I don't know what to do now, I am totally confused. I don't think my wife understands what issues I had with her and may be she will always keep thinking that the problems were with me only and not her.

Help!!!


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

Mikey, I am sorry you're going through this. I guess with all this time to think, things are coming up. 
I have struggled with blame for a long time, too. Honestly, I am hoping that during my separation I'll be able to see MY blame more clearly. I don't think it's fair to place all the blame on one person yet that's just what I tend to do. It's wrong and it's not fair and I need to work on that. 
What ever happened with the counseling session she was going to go with you to? 

At this point, I'm at a loss. Everyone on this board is hurting for one reason or another and all I can do right now is tell you that I hope the counseling session will help. 
Sounds to me like you guys really need it. Your feelings shouldn't be discounted even if you DO have control issues. You deserve to be shown respect in your relationship. 
There's a HUGE difference between respect and control.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Easy,
Thanks for your reply.
The counseling session is on thursday, but I don't feel like bothering with all this anymore. She told me she was going for this session only to help me figure out my issues and NOT FOR 'start working out on the marriage together'. So, I don't want to bother anymore as I have started to feel that she needs to calm down and show some respect to how I have felt all along. 

I could have retaliated in a much worse manner when she just forced this separation on me, it was not mutually agreed upon. Rather I took it as a learning experience and have been taking care of the 'big' house and everything else while she is doing nothing, at least nothing that is helping me see she is suffering too.

I have been trying to change and am working really hard to save this marriage and provide her whatever she wants from a partner, instead all she does all the time is to blame me for every freaking thing. I guess if I keep going like this I will give up very soon. Hence I want a complete disconnect with her when I don't get to see her no more, and thats why I was thinking about going through a very hard step of not seeing my daughter anymore. 

I want one thing clear I guess, whether she wants this marriage to work or not. When she says she doesn't want this anymore she still says with anger which clearly tells me she hasn't given a deep thought about it and may be still want to work out. That gives me hope but at the same time anguish whether to do it or not. 

what do you guys say, shall I go with her to this session or shall I just tell her to wait until she is ready to really work things out ? I am just too scared to see her shouting as that always costs me a few days at least to get back on working things out.

help!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'd go to the session myself and tell her that when she is really ready to participate....she can let you know.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

thanks Corpuswife. Could you pen a few more words as to why you support what you said, I really appreciate your time.

Folks, words of wisdom please, I really need them as my thinking process has taken a 180 degree turn this weekend and my brains are telling me to get tougher with the situation and stop giving her the upper hand all the time, she may be getting spoiled.

Thanks!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

mikey go with your gut! You are probably right that you need to back off and get a bit tougher.

As far as counseling goes: In both my professional and personal experience I feel counseling doesn't work unless both parties are committed to the process. Often (1) party has a defensive posture or "I am only here for you" and that is hard to break though the WALL. 

In my personal experience counseling for my marriage was a waste of time in many ways. I was looking at saving the marriage. He was not. He was hesistant to participate and did so out of guilt. I didn't get much out of it or any suprises after 2 months. Then after 2 months, he states that he thinks he like to move toward a divorce. So the marriage counseling turned to divorce counseling. He just didn't have the guts to tell me in person...he needed someone else present. I am a super easy person to talk to...don't get bent out of shape easily, patient and a good listener. He is not emotionally connected in any healthy way to me or anyone else. He has much to learn. 

We are now separated for 5 weeks. See my When Love Must Be Tough thread. I am still working on my marriage, but in a different way now.


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

I agree that really there's nothing else to do when you don't know what to do other than go with your gut. 
I mean, I've been to relationship counselors twice. Once with my 1st husband, and that didn't work out. He was sitting in counseling to appease me (and his mother) all the while thinking about where he was going to meet his girlfriend when it was over. 

My current DH and I went to counseling, learned the five love languages from reading a book, and then stopped going. She didn't help much. 
Then I did go to see a counselor for myself and he was just a quack. 

I think the thing with counseling is that you have to get a really good counselor or it sours you to the whole experience. The ones I had basically handed out books and told you to read them, then asked the same questions over and over. 

I hope it helps you. Even if she doesn't go, you should go. It might be the best thing you do for yourself.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

We had our counseling session today. It was as I thought it would be. My wife reiterated the fact that she didn't want to work on this marriage and that she wouldn't have moved out if she could see any hope to save this marriage.

She discussed a few situations/events when she thought I was completely wrong and abusive. After hearing my viewpoint she always claims that I have a way to twist everything and turn things in my favor. When she sees that my angle was not that bad she starts repeating that she doesn't want this marriage anymore.

I am loosing hope and am building a lot of resentment towards her. She forced this 'moving out' thing on me; she promised to work things out, she is not doing that; she decides when I can see my kid and when not; sometimes I feel like giving all this back to her, but I try to keep my cool as I still want her back and don't want to do anything stupid.

Anyone has anything to say? 
Do you guys still think she is saying all this because she is still angry?
Do you see any hope??

help me !! I feel like s#[email protected]


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Read my When Love Must be Tough thread. It's based on the same name book by Dr. Dobsons. It for when one spouse wants to leave the marriage.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Folks,
I need help!! Please see my last comment.
Last night was so painful, I couldn't sleep at all even after having a few drinks.

The problem is that my wife keeps quoting the past events and what I did that was hurtful to her. She understands now that I have figured out exactly what was wrong with the marriage and what issues she had with me. But it seems she is behaving like a child when she starts repeating 'I don't want to work on this' hundred times.

It looks to me as if she has taken an oath to be stubborn about not sorting out this relationship. The therapist and I never asked her to work on anything, but she kept repeating the same thing.

What kind of behavior is this? 

One more thing, she keeps claiming that I knew about all her issues while we were together, and she communicated them to me a lot of times, but I never did anything to correct them. On my part, I said if I had known what the issues were then why wouldn't I have worked on them as I never wanted her to leave at the first place.

Honestly, I tried understanding the issues while we were together, but I never had the kind of understanding I have now, this separation has uncovered a few of my blind spots. Also, whenever I tried discussing the issues she always came attacking at me, shouting/screaming/crying, so I could never get things in the clear.

Now, her main focus is that I knew about all this all along and I didn't do anything. How do I show her or prove to her that our communication was poor and that was 'our' fault and not 'mine'.

help!!


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

Oh wow. I have no idea. I think just take care of you for right now. Have you been doing the 'give her space' thing and not calling, or popping by, or bringing up the relationship? (Other than the counseling session, I mean.) If you haven't tried that, then I really think that's what you should do. Don't even talk to her unless it's necessary because of your kid. Even then, make it short and to the point. 

If you've already been doing this, then keep on doing it. Is your wife seeing a counselor? That might help her, but you know that's not your call. 
Keep going to your counseling sessions if you feel they are helping you. If not, then find a different counselor. 

I quit seeing mine because I didn't like him, but I don't have a new one yet and I don't know if I will. I just really didn't like that guy. 

Keep writing, too. I think it helps, for me anyway.


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## StrongEnough (Nov 25, 2008)

mikey said:


> Folks,
> I need help!! Please see my last comment.
> Last night was so painful, I couldn't sleep at all even after having a few drinks.I am sorry to hear that you are having trouble sleeping. This compounds the stress. Do your best to get some rest.
> 
> ...


Last but not least, I stress patience. It did not get to where it is overnight, nor will it be all better tomorrow.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's very common when one spouse wants out to blame the other almost totally! They will also focus only on the negative parts of the relationship as if there was no positive. And when you point out the "what about when_____" postive aspects...they discount it.

My H would even bring up things that I had no idea where they were coming from. He has a horrible memory and said something about an argument we had before we got married? What argument? He can barely remember the birth of our kids! We've been married for 24+ years.

This is actually common, how you describe your wife.

I am serious read When Love Must be Tough by Dr. Dobson.


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## mikey (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks...
I understand patience, space, time... and I am trying to follow these guidelines...

However, I still want to know if you guys see any hope based on how my wife is behaving?? I guess I am getting too depressed as I can hardly see any hope here. Her family is not talking to me so it feels as if the only people who can help don't want to anymore ;-(


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## easysilence (Jul 1, 2009)

It seems like you want to give up maybe. I wouldn't. Keep trying by NOT trying. Just live your life. Just know that no matter what happens, you will survive and be fine. Let go of trying to work on the relationship and just work on you. 
You have to REALLY do this, not pretend. I know it's hard, but I think it's necessary. Don't think about your issues 'as they pertain to her' just take her right out of the equation and work on you. 

I think you should do this and then see what happens. I'm sorry you're going through all this, it sucks.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I know you want to know that she will come around, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that you will live happily ever after.....I kept wishing for something, something, to give me a positive sign.

I think that you won't see it, even if it's there....one moment you may read into something (positive) and the next moment that's wiped away. Just as the breakdown of the relationship wasn't overnight...either is the buildup. 

Time and space and patience.


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