# My wife



## AZman

I found texts between my wife and a co-worker. Nothing physical yet, but the intent/desire was clear. I found the texts yesterday as our daughter was playing with my wife's phone and couldn't get back to the game so she handed it to me (daughter is too young to read them so no worries there). It is clear my wife has feelings for this person and (at least in writing) would be willing to escalate it to physical.

I have not done anything except felt sick to my stomach for the last 2 days constantly. Been married for 8.5 years now. I am at a loss what to do. 

Things haven't been great, we have been stressed and impatient with one another for a while now. We just had a really deep discussion about trying harder to make things better, to both be happier etc. The texts happened 11/22 and I found them after this discussion. 

So I am at a loss of what to do now. I found this site and have been reading some stuff on line, considering going to a therapist too and talk through stuff for me and then go from there, but I am not sure how long I can have this information in my head and not say something.


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## Will_Kane

Confront her now, why are you waiting? She is the one who has done wrong, not you. Just because you had a talk with her about improving your marriage, she is not going to give up other man or her desires to see if he suits her better than you. It is comforting for her to know you want to work on the marriage, now she just has to decide which of you she wants.

How long will other man take to agree to get physical with your wife?

There are very, very few men who can run fast enough to get away from a woman who wants to have sex with him.


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## Kindabitter

Hi AZman, 
I am so sorry to hear this. It hits close to home for me as I had a very similar situation happen. It super sucks and no one should feel the sickness and confusion you're going through right now. I didn't say anything for a few months, but I put spyware on his computer. I learned so much more than I ever wanted to know. I finally told him I knew what was going on and why. He doesn't know I have spyware on his computer -he just knows I saw his messages. Before I told him he lied to my face about what was going on. Seriously lied when I asked direct questions. Then once he knew I knew, he didn't lie he just got quiet. We're working on things now and it's a ton better but that trust issue is a tough one. If I had to do it again, I would talk to him right away about what I found. This site is great, there's lots of people to talk to and share with. Again, I'm super sorry for what you're going through. Let me know if you want to talk, I understand. 
Kindabitter


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## life101

Confront immediately. IC and MC ASAP and must.
A remorse is needed on part of the WW if true R is desired.


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## the guy

Did you make a snap shot of the text? 

Be prepared to be lied to and blamed. Do not let her label you controling and insecure.

DO NOT REVEAL YOUR SOURCE!!!!!

As far as your wife is concerned you were told by someone.

I would highly recommend you find out who this OM(other man) is and if he has a wife or girl friend then do not tell your wife but expose the affair to the wife or GF.

This will do a couple of things, 1) the OM will throw your wife under the bus to save his own relationship. 2) you can compare notes with OM wife and 3) it will give you an extra set of eye in preventing the afffair to continue.

exposing the affair is one of the best way to stop the affair, just don't tell you wife and give her a chance to warn OM. The Om will do the damage control and you will lose out on a effectiveness of exposing the affait to his wife and GF.

Confronting your wife right now will leave a better chance for the affair to go underground, but if you envolve the OM wife or GF you have a better chance to blow this thing up for both your wife and her boyfriend...make sense?


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## AZman

Thanks. I guess not confronting at the moment is self-preservation. Not asking = not knowing = not having it have to be my reality I guess. Writing it to post here sucked enough. Dumb I know.

I don't need spyware or anything like that, what I read was enough to know. The other person is in a relationship I believe and based on their responses isn't willing to cross the line at the moment, but that really doesn't help. 

Trust will be a huge issue for me I know that too.


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## AZman

life101 said:


> Confront immediately. IC and MC ASAP and must.
> A remorse is needed on part of the WW if true R is desired.


Is there a key some where for what all these mean?


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## alte Dame

Breathe deeply, stand up straight, shake off the doubt & confront your W with what you know. Sitting around feeling terrible isn't going to help anything & she won't suddenly decide to stop doing what's she's doing because of your silent hopes.

I'm one for saying things directly. There's definitely a place for keeping one's cards close to the vest, but I don't think this is the time.


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## the guy

Dude this will continue if you don't expose it to the OM relationship, he will drop your chick in a heart beat.

The best way to get OM out of an already fragile marriage is to get OM to worry about his own relationship and bail on your wife.

This tactic will show your wife you are not a man to be messed with.


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## life101

AZman said:


> Is there a key some where for what all these mean?


IC: individual counselling
MC: marriage counselling
R: reconciliation
WW: wayward(?) wife
ASAP: as soon as possible

sorry about that


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## the guy

Rule #1 get OM completely out of the picture, then your wife will no onger be infected by him and she can start to focus on saving her marriage.


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## the guy

You can't nice your way out of this, your oldlady needs to see you are not messing around here.

Expose the affair to OMW/GF (other mans wife/girlfriend)

This guy guy will back off big time.


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## the guy

Let the OM confront your wife after you tell his wife or girl friend.


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## TDSC60

It sounds like she was willing to take it physical but OM was not. The longer you wait to confront her and shut this down, the longer he has to change his mind.

Also OM is a co-worker. She has to find another job. They are in an intense emotional affair (EA) at the very least. That cannot be stopped of dealt with if they work in the same place and have constant contact.

Tell her she has one chance to make this right or divorce is the only option.


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## the guy

Your wife may not like the exposure but she will respect it. I bet if the tables were turned your wife would be on the phone in a heart beat talking to the other womens husband and exposing the your affair.


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## AZman

I don't believe the other person to be in a serious relationship so I don't think that will help. Maybe they aren't interested in my wife sexually so they didn't want to for that reason. I realize that means nothing for my situation, but I don't see it as helping me.


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## Foghorn

Exposure. Make your wife's peccadillo uncomfortable, not the exciting choice, but embarrassing.

When you up the ante and make it a greater investment for the OM to text, have a physical affair, whatever, it lowers your wife's value and he sends her back to you. Then you can R, or not, as you choose.

As others pointed out, you cannot ignore or "nice" your way out of this. You will have to embarrass her.

Do it. and tell the OM's girlfriend as well. have the texts ready (printed) so she can't delete them.


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## The Middleman

AZman said:


> Thanks. I guess not confronting at the moment is self-preservation. Not asking = not knowing = not having it have to be my reality I guess. Writing it to post here sucked enough. Dumb I know.
> 
> I don't need spyware or anything like that, what I read was enough to know. The other person is in a relationship I believe and based on their responses isn't willing to cross the line at the moment, but that really doesn't help.
> 
> Trust will be a huge issue for me I know that too.


Dude: Your waiting and being passive will only lead to your wife having sex with this guy. Your getting a lot of good advice here, heed it. But act quickly, decisively and be a man. Do not fear being called controlling and if you hear the words "He's Just A Friend" it means "I'm going to fvck him soon".

Talk to you wife and calmly, in measured tones, tell her you want full disclosure on this guy, you want to know everything. She will deny and react angrily. Don't let it phase you. Tell her you want full information on who this guy is, you want to see every text message and e-mail and you want her to send him a message ending all contact, Immediately.

As soon as you find out who this guy is, expose him to his wife or GF. Consider reporting him to the company's human resources department.

This is not going to be easy, expect your wife to fight you every step of the way, but what ever you do, do it now.


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## AZman

All ready have shots of the texts, took pics with my phone so I had them. I agree EA is all ready there, I know I need to address it, and nice and ignoring will do nothing. I am not in denial, I know what needs to be done, just sucks.


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## the guy

"They were just joking, they do it all the time with all the coworkers!"

" you don't pay any attension to me"

And why were you invading her privacy?

I hear this kind of crap from WW(wayward wifes)all the time here, so prepare your self.


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## The Middleman

AZman said:


> All ready have shots of the texts, took pics with my phone so I had them. I agree EA is all ready there, I know I need to address it, and nice and ignoring will do nothing. I am not in denial, I know what needs to be done, just sucks.


Stay in touch with us. We got your back.


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## Wazza

OK...three deep breaths. You gotta be calm.

Now...here is the theory behind the advice so far.

It is normal for people to develop this sort of attraction. It's a powerful force. They keep it secret, that amplifies it. It becomes irresistible. Acting on it occurs. Small steps lead to a big problem.

Your wife is on that slope, probably denying it to herself, struggling to come to terms with it, or so dosed up on love hormones that she isn't thinking straight. She is probably magnifying your faults and minimising your good points in order to feel better about her desires.

So the theory is that a gentle approach won't work. She may keep lying, keep justifying. Till she ends up in an affair.

My own observation is that all this theory is pretty true.

So many of the suggestions here are designed to provide a big enough shock to throw her off balance, or to disrupt the relationship by getting the OM into so much trouble he can't continue to chase your wife. If you don't do that, at some stage the theory is she will suggest a separation to work on herself, when in fact she wants to try out the OM.

If you do shock her, the marriage can be saved.

So, this is my suggestion. Take a copy of the texts, and then confront her without telling her what you know and where from. Say "I know what is going on, this is your one chance to come clean." If she stalls say "With xxxxx" whatever his name is. 

Validate the truth of what she tells you from how it matches the texts (being aware there may be some hyperbole in them).

If she comes clean, you have a basis for discussion. If she lies, hit her with all guns blazing to save the marriage. Kick her out of the marital bed, cut off anything you are paying for, etc, and say you can talk about all that stuff once she tells the truth. Make it clear you will not tolerate lies.

Good luck, and don't despair. This hurts but many marriages survive it and go on to become much stronger. You are doing better than me....I didn't catch my wife's affair till it was already on. We got through it and are still together 22 years later, and happy. It can be done.


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## the guy

Ya it sucks we all have been down that same road, so you have alot of experience here.

Chick dig confident men, show how confident you are by no longer tolorating sharing your wife and be calm but firm in the belief that you will let her go if she continues.

Do not show her how weak you really are, no crying and don't beg for the marriage.


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## TDSC60

Do not let her get you into an argument about this. Do not listen to her explanations (and there will be plenty). They will range from "You got it wrong - he is just a friend" to trying to blame you because you didn't pay her enough attention. Do not argue with her.

Lay out the boundaries clearly and calmly. 
1. No contact with him forever starting now.
2. Find another job.
3 Admit that she is in an EA and that it has affected your marriage.

If she refuses any of the above then tell her you can not continue to be her husband because she has already replaced you with him.


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## badmemory

There are pros and cons for saying nothing and gathering more evidence vs. confronting now. 

I was in the same situation as you about a year ago. I confronted my wife after finding only a few "I love you texts" and not even knowing who the AP was. Of course I was given trickle truth by my wife. But I was fortunate that she was not very computer literate and I was able to find the smoking gun of her PA a week later.

So if you wait and continue to investigate, you might find that smoking gun but you risk the affair escalating from EA to PA (if it hasn't already) the longer you wait.

Based on what you're describing, if it were me, I would keylog her computer, put a VAR in her car and put spyware on her phone. I'd do this as quickly as possible, then confront her about the texts when you're set up. It will be a lot harder to do, once she knows you're on to her. 

Good luck. You're going to get a lot of good advice here. As I've told many others, I wish I knew about this sight when I first found out about my wife.


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## AZman

What good spyware programs are out there? I would need them for an Iphone 4 & Ipad2


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## TRy

AZman said:


> I found texts between my wife and a co-worker. Nothing physical yet, but the intent/desire was clear. I found the texts yesterday as our daughter was playing with my wife's phone and couldn't get back to the game so she handed it to me (daughter is too young to read them so no worries there). It is clear my wife has feelings for this person and (at least in writing) would be willing to escalate it to physical.


 Take a photo of the texts (that you can clearly read) and keep copies in more that one place. Do this before she deletes them and calls you crazy. After you have taken the photos, print them out and confront her. Tell her that it is either divorce or full no contact and full transparency including all passwords with the right to view them without her complaining. If she says no, then she has decided on the other man (OM) and your marraige is over. Sorry that you are here.


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## Will_Kane

AZman said:


> I don't believe the other person to be in a serious relationship so I don't think that will help. *Maybe they aren't interested in my wife sexually* so they didn't want to for that reason. I realize that means nothing for my situation, but I don't see it as helping me.


So your wife just threw herself at other man out of the blue with absolutely no encouragement from him?

Or he is the type who likes to woo women and then NOT have sex with them?

So he has no serious love interest and some woman keeps telling him she wants to have sex with him? And he is going to keep saying "NO" to that?

Did she say she loved him? With no interest from him? What is this all about? What was in the texts that you saw?


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## badmemory

Spybubble, webwatcher, phone sheriff, mobile-spy, stealth genie.


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## the guy

IDK but the VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) is a good tool you can plant it under her car seat with some velcro tape and get some good info when she is talking to her friends about her affair.

Also it will yeild some info if your wife drives OM out to lunch.


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## the guy

tdwal said:


> What do you need spyware for you already know. Spyware on apple products require you to jailbreak them, it isn't that easy to do.


having spyware or any other spy gear in place will also help in confirming her commitment if they deside to work it out.

Its not just the tools to catch an affair it also help in finding a false R (reconciliation).


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## Will_Kane

AZman said:


> What good spyware programs are out there? I would need them for an Iphone 4 & Ipad2


Telling yourself you need more evidence and looking to delay talking to her about it as long as possible?

You already saw the texts, all you're going to do now is delay the inevitable and possibly wind up with a physical affair. These emotional affairs move forward at the speed of light, things progress from "you have a nice smile" to "I love you, you're my soulmate" and full-on sex in nothing flat. The longer you allow your wife to concentrate on the other man as a love interest, the harder it is going to be for her to get over it.


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## the guy

At the very least take a minute to look the OM up on face book..if you have his full name, if not doa reverse look up on his cell number.

I agree this can happen fast but taking the time to go on facebook and knowing your enemy and having something a little more on OM might get WW to think you know more then you really know.


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## the guy

Have you looked at your wifes facebook or other social networks, that may give you more info before you confront.

Again take the few minutes to look this guy up...I'm not talking days here but just a few minutes while you prepare for the script you are about to get from your WW...and trust me its all a script we here at TAM (talk About Marriage) have heard.


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## Will_Kane

Wazza said:


> OK...three deep breaths. You gotta be calm.
> 
> Take a copy of the texts, and then confront her without telling her what you know and where from. Say "I know what is going on, this is your one chance to come clean." If she stalls say "With xxxxx" whatever his name is.
> 
> Validate the truth of what she tells you from how it matches the texts (being aware there may be some hyperbole in them).
> 
> If she comes clean, you have a basis for discussion. If she lies, hit her with all guns blazing to save the marriage. Kick her out of the marital bed, cut off anything you are paying for, etc, and say you can talk about all that stuff once she tells the truth. Make it clear you will not tolerate lies.


This is the basic approach. Stay calm. Tell her you KNOW what is going on, never NEVER tell her how you know, just that you KNOW and she has 15 minutes to come clean or you'll start the divorce proceedings; or if she doesn't come clean, offer to drop her off at other man's house, mention him by name, maybe even call him up and tell him you have his soulmate here, she's all his, you'll be dropping her off at his house in a few minutes along with all her baggage.

It's very unusual for a woman to come on strong with a man who has expressed no interest in her. It's very unusual for a man to express interest and not want sex. So something doesn't add up here.


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## AZman

They don't have a facebook account. I checked. I went into my wife's facebook and checked there too, nothing. I don't need anything more at the moment to confront my wife. My concern is after I confront her assuring it is done. The other person has nothing to lose either way. As far as VAR, I can try it, but based on what I am seeing, I would suspect it is all convo at work and texting outside of it.


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## Will_Kane

the guy said:


> Have you looked at your wifes facebook or other social networks, that may give you more info before you confront.
> 
> Again take the few minutes to look this guy up...I'm not talking days here but just a few minutes while you prepare for the script you are about to get from your WW...and trust me its all a script we here at TAM (talk About Marriage) have heard.


Nothing wrong with this approach, look at facebook, email, phone bill, browser history, find out frequency of contact, when it started, what times of day and night it is occurring - usually the woman will contact the man first thing every morning and sometime before bed at night to say "I love you sweetie good morning" and "sweet dreams sweetie good night." Usually all texts are deleted, if your wife is not deleting them as it seems she is not (since you found them on her phone to start this whole thing), when you confront you can ask to see her phone and look at the texts with her. Look at browser history to see if she is searching the web for places to live, divorce attorneys, etc.

If you have questions and her story doesn't make sense, you can ask her to take a polygraph, or put a voice-activated recorder in her car, or put spyware on her phone later, but for most guys, the physical act of sex itself is much harder to get over than if they only are sending sex messages or I love yous to each other. If she hasn't had sex with him yet, you can possibly save yourself a lot of pain and mind movies if you want to reconcile. She works with the guy, so I assume they could have sex at any time either in their workplace or in their cars before work, after work, during lunch, etc.


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## AZman

Sex at work, in the parking lot is less of a concern given the nature of their work. They are both teachers.


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## Will_Kane

AZman said:


> They don't have a facebook account. I checked. I went into my wife's facebook and checked there too, nothing. I don't need anything more at the moment to confront my wife. My concern is after I confront her assuring it is done. The other person has nothing to lose either way. As far as VAR, I can try it, but based on what I am seeing, I would suspect it is all convo at work and texting outside of it.


You'll just have to play it by ear, you may have to expose at work, let their employer know that you believe the employer is fostering a toxic workplace environment where affairs are rampant. Don't tell your wife what you may or may not do, ever, play your actions regarding exposure close to the vest. You may have to ask her to start looking for another job, there are more than a few threads here where the affair partners were coworkers and it never can stay that way and end up in a successful reconciliation, first because the two affair partners can't resist each other and second, even if they can, the betrayed spouse goes crazy thinking that they are back in their affair.

Do not underestimate their need to contact each other outside of work hours, it is very strong. Likely they can talk at work but not long enough or "mushy" enough to satisfy them both, so they will call each other on the way to and from work and when they are in their cars and feel safe, so even when they work together the voice-activated recorder works very well in detecting ongoing inappropriate contact.


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## bfree

AZman said:


> Sex at work, in the parking lot is less of a concern given the nature of their work. They are both teachers.


What is it with all the teachers cheating?


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## the guy

It sounds like you are going to confront so again prepare your self.

She might say a few things like;
* it was just a joke
* we are just friends
Your response should be "its not funny and I find it very dangerous to the marriage and it will not continue"

* your controlling 
*your insucure
*you can't tell me who my friends are
Responde with " I will not control you and you can *choose* to do and see who you want just like I can *choose* to find some one else that respect the protection I have to offer and someone with the same values for a marriage"

Theres alot more but the most important thing is don't tell her "how it makes you feel" or "how uncomfortable it is" those are bete statements. us words like "unacceptable" and "no longer tolorate".

Be confident in your statement and never beg or cry for your marriage. The perception that you can and will let her go if it continues is a must. If she sees any weakness on your part she will figure you aren't going anywere and continue to pursue the OM.


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## Will_Kane

AZman said:


> Sex at work, in the parking lot is less of a concern given the nature of their work. They are both teachers.


There are a few threads about teachers here. It seemed quite easy for them to find a few moments alone to have sex, lots of closets and empty classrooms, it only takes a few minutes.


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## Gabriel

the guy said:


> It sounds like you are going to confront so again prepare your self.
> 
> She might say a few things like;
> * it was just a joke
> * we are just friends
> Your response should be "its not funny and I find it very dangerous to the marriage and it will not continue"
> 
> * your controlling
> *your insucure
> *you can't tell me who my friends are
> Responde with " I will not control you and you can *choose* to do and see who you want just like I can *choose* to find some one else that respect the protection I have to offer and someone with the same values for a marriage"
> 
> Theres alot more but the most important thing is don't tell her "how it makes you feel" or "how uncomfortable it is" those are bete statements. us words like "unacceptable" and "no longer tolorate".
> 
> Be confident in your statement and never beg or cry for your marriage. The perception that you can and will let her go if it continues is a must. If she sees any weakness on your part she will figure you aren't going anywere and continue to pursue the OM.


This is excellent advice. Heed it. Keep us posted on how the confrontation goes.


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## warlock07

Are you ready to divorce her if she won't stop such behavior ? or will you promise to be a better nice Husband..
Are you the typical "Nice guy ?"


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## the guy

If she refusses to stop all contact (NC) or she tells you she is confused. tell you will make the disicion for her and ask her to leave, if she leave let her know you considerthis abandonment and will act occordingly.

The point is we don't know which way she will go, is this an exit affair or will she drop to he knees and beg for fogiveness?

If she continues the affiai I would expose it to the school district. this tactic is to make the affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible. Until the OM is completely out of the picture then the marriage is doomed....hell it might already be a dealbreaker.


That reminds me, during the confrontation nevr mention working things out. that can come latter as far as she is concerned for now you can let her go with the up most confidence.


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## TDSC60

Does your wife "sync" her iPhone with her computer?

If she does there is a program that can recover text message using iTunes.

Also all iPhones have GPS. If the GPS is turned on you can use the "Find My Phone" App from another iPhone or (I think) an iPad to track her location. Any weekend shopping trips and such.


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## the guy

warlock07 said:


> Are you ready to divorce her if she won't stop such behavior ? or will you promise to be a better nice Husband..
> Are you the typical "Nice guy ?"


@warlock, I can tell by looking at the date you 1st posted and the amount of posts...you like me, have seen it time and again how a guy tries to nice there way out of this crap and try to be a better husband...it just don't work! You can't compete with the new OM. Often a guys gets sucked into the blameshifting and start to apoligize for his wife cheating on him.


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## daisygirl 41

My H had an EA/PA with a co worker.
Guess what job they do???
You need to act on this fast!
Gather your info. Confront her and expose. Within 6 weeks of my Hs EA starting he was ready to leave our 17 year marriage. A year of heartbreak and pain followed.
Confront her!
Exposé 
And hit her with a hard 180
Please don't make the mistakes I made.
You are being given advice here by people who know how these things work. Please take it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AZman

Has it all been flowers and sunshine, no, but I didn't do anything to deserve this. I have not been unfaithful, and have given her no pause to believe I have been. We have had the "work things out conversation" without me knowing about this situation which is different. She knows I am committed to work and try, this situation is not committment, it is betrayal. 

Would leaving/divorce suck, it would be a ****ing nightmare, but not a worse nightmare than feeling like this everyday. I have decided to confront tonight after our daughter goes to sleep.

edited to say sorry I forgot the rule about 4 letter words.


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## Wazza

AZman said:


> Has it all been flowers and sunshine, no, but I didn't do anything to deserve this. I have not been unfaithful, and have given her no pause to believe I have been. We have had the "work things out conversation" without me knowing about this situation which is different. She knows I am committed to work and try, this situation is not committment, it is betrayal.
> 
> Would leaving/divorce suck, it would be a ****ing nightmare, but not a worse nightmare than feeling like this everyday. I have decided to confront tonight after our daughter goes to sleep.
> 
> edited to say sorry I forgot the rule about 4 letter words.


She has an affair starting, and if you have had deep conversations about working it out and she has not mentioned this, it's a worry.

I would be asking her what good she thinks talking about the relationship will do if she is going to keep such a secret.

Confronting ASAP and being strong actually lessens the chance of divorce because the longer the affair goes the deeper it gets.


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## lucky me

Good luck man


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## AZman

Wazza said:


> She has an affair starting, and if you have had deep conversations about working it out and she has not mentioned this, it's a worry.
> 
> I would be asking her what good she thinks talking about the relationship will do if she is going to keep such a secret.
> 
> Confronting ASAP and being strong actually lessens the chance of divorce because the longer the affair goes the deeper it gets.


I agree completely.


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## bfree

AZman said:


> They don't have a facebook account. I checked. I went into my wife's facebook and checked there too, nothing. I don't need anything more at the moment to confront my wife. My concern is after I confront her assuring it is done. *The other person has nothing to lose either way.* As far as VAR, I can try it, but based on what I am seeing, I would suspect it is all convo at work and texting outside of it.


I would think that statement is not accurate if you expose them both at their job. You are probably going to have to think about her leaving her job anyway. If she stays there you will never know if their affair is actually over.


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## AZman

Well, it started. We had to go to a thing for my daughter's school we drove separately as I had a late meeting. She could tell something was up with me at dinner. Daughter was playing with her cell like normal, she went to the bathroom and came back and I had it as my kid ran off to play. She was clearly worried. I got home first, they pulled up but didn't get out, I went out to get my wife and kid and she was feverishly deleting texts. I walked out, knocked on the car window and she got out and said tried to play it off, but I called her on it. She knows I know, the discussion is far from over, but I refused to have it in the front yard, while my kid was awake inside. I feel okay, calm at this moment. I will update either late tonight or some time tomorrow.


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## Madman1

Get those texts saved!


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## AZman

Madman1 said:


> Get those texts saved!


She can delete all she wants. I have screen shots of the most important/worst ones.


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## Silverlining

:smthumbup:

I commend you for taking screenshots of those texts. You are doing what many here wished they did on D-day. investigate and save the evidence. 

your wife will downplay the extent of the emotional affair. It's called minimizing. Stand your ground and don't waiver. 
Come down hard if you have any chance of saving your marriage.

She will lie to you repeatedly and make you believe it's all in your head. This is called gas-lighting. 

She will also blame you for this happening or say you pushed her to do this. This is called Blame shifting. 

Please understand, Cheaters all follow the same script. We are here to help you navigate this horrible chapter of your life. 

Good luck!


----------



## Madman1

There is no excuse for cheating, none!
That is on her!

Problems can be addressed, marriages can be ended, but betrayal and disloyality, no excuse!

It is sooooo disrespectful to you and the marriage!


----------



## Shaggy

Watch out with teachers they have way too many ways of locking classroom doors and having quickies.

Do not let her claim just friends - demand she come clean and demand that all contact permanently ends with the OM.

As for the OM, you need to still deal with him so he won't come sniffing around and won't accept your wife sniffing around. You need to find his partner and expose to her.


----------



## bbrad

Best of luck to you. Hope it all works out for the better.


----------



## The Middleman

AZman, please let us know how the first confrontation went.


----------



## AZman

It sucked, but I guess that is too be expected. I got full disclosure, everything I was told aligned with what I all ready knew. She didn't deny anything or try to make excuses. I was able to remain calm and collected with the exception of kind of snapping 1 time. I felt okay with that given the fact that it was 48 hours from knowledge to confrontation.

It has been an EA and it has lasted about 1-2 months. It aligns with that horrible feeling I had in my gut starting about 3-4 weeks ago. I have agreement to NC and that she will look for a transfer as well. 

I am not sure how it is supposed to go or what is typical to feel after something like this. I still feel basically numb mixed with anger, exhaustion and a sense of betrayal. I need to decide what I want next and what the next steps are. I am not sure how long that will take. Reconciliation/recovery is possible I guess though I have not told her what I think or want, but I struggle with thinking about trust and such. 

I got a referral for IC and called yesterday to try to make an appointment. If I decide to try to move forward I imagine MC will be involved as well. So that sums up the last 12 hours.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout

It's one big rollercoaster of emotion -- ups and downs. It does get better. Good for you with the confrontation, and how fortunate that she came clean. If she was upfront with everything, that's a good sign, IMO. Hang in there.


----------



## warlock07

Don't tell her that you forgive her(even if you do), don't jump into R immediately, don't let her take you as the second choice for granted. Discuss about divorce, separation. Let her face the reality of the situation..


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## jay80_98

Yup and no reconciliation unless she quits the job


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## TDSC60

She did not deny or excuse - but did she apologize to you? 
Does she say she loves OM and wanted sex with him?
Did she say anything about staying married?
Did she admit to any meetings with him alone?
Did she admit to anything physical?
Did she beg you not to divorce her?

You need to find OMs wife/girlfriend and let her know what has happened - send her copies of the texts. If he is in a relationship his partner deserves to know.

You should also consider exposing to personnel or HR at the work location.

Just be aware that WWs seldom give the entire truth up during the first confrontation.

I would get snooping equipment in place for a while anyway.

At the moment you can not trust a word she says.

Rule one - cheaters lie. They lie to protect the affair, they lie to continue the affair, they lie to protect OM, they lie to keep from getting thrown to the curb, they lie because the truth would "hurt" you, - they just lie.


----------



## Silverlining

She can either stop all contact with OM or take this relationship underground. You need to get full transparency from her. She needs to give you the password to her cell and not be allowed to delete text messages. 

Treat this like a drug! Most way wards are not able to quit cold turkey. They keep going back to get one last fix. Stay strong, you are not out of the woods yet. 

Trust but verify everything.

Eta: you may think you got full disclosure, but unless you verify her story with other man or have her take a polygraph, you don't really know for sure.


----------



## Gabriel

Don't let her rugsweep this affair and then just go back to normal. And you don't do that either. 

It sounds like you caught it relatively early, but she might not be being truthful about the timeframe. She will be in damage control for quite some time, and that includes minimzing the feelings, minimizing the duration, minimizing the severity, etc.

Other than agreeing to your immediate demands, what did she say? Does she still want you, or has she fallen so hard for this guy she is "confused"?


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## The Middleman

I hope it went as "well" as you said it did. It almost sounded too easy to me. i think that this is going to be the first of many confrontations with your wife regarding this affair. For me the most important thing to confirm is did she get physical with him. In my opinion that changes the landscape tremendously when thinking if you can reconcile.

Heed the advice below, it's very important.



TDSC60 said:


> You need to find OMs wife/girlfriend and let her know what has happened - send her copies of the texts. If he is in a relationship his partner deserves to know.
> 
> You should also consider exposing to personnel or HR at the work location.
> 
> Just be aware that WWs seldom give the entire truth up during the first confrontation.
> 
> I would get snooping equipment in place for a while anyway.
> 
> At the moment you can not trust a word she says.
> 
> Rule one - cheaters lie. They lie to protect the affair, they lie to continue the affair, they lie to protect OM, they lie to keep from getting thrown to the curb, they lie because the truth would "hurt" you, - they just lie.


----------



## AZman

She referred to it as a distraction from everything going on with us, whcih she agreed is not an acceptable reason. She has only been at this school for 4 months, so long term is not an option, prior to August she had never met this person, this I know to be fact. 

-She said she does not love them.
-She confirmed nothing physical.
-She apologized.
-She offerred her Iphone password, and I could check it but there is no way to know if texts are deleted so that really isn't going ot do anything.
-She gave her reasons about seeking a connection, feeling lonely, enjoying the chase, but agreed that it in the end is/was an affair, and isn't acceptable.
-Working in education in the past, I know going to HR is going to do nothing especially me being outside the organization. No physical interaction occurred that I can prove, nothing happened at work that I can prove, so there is no steps I can see the school really taking. 

We did talk about divorce, separation. We talked about how that would impact our daughter. I have not offerred reconciliation at any level yet and am not sure when or how I will make that decision. 

Thanks for the support.


----------



## AlphaHalf

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mahike

AZman I may be jumping in her late. Sounds like things went to easy. I would get a keylogger for the phone and a VAR for her car. I would suspect she is still seeing this guy or at least talking with him. 

It appears her reason for an A was emotional support she is not getting from you. I doubt she would give it up, she may have just taken it further underground.

Does this OM have a spouse or a GF, if so they should be told what you know. Sunlight kills A's both EA and PA.


----------



## AlphaHalf

both of you are agreeing to stay together for your kid only?? Is this a marriage of convenience? Keeping the affair secret only protects there affair. Expose the affair at the workplace even if you don't thinks nothing happens. tell your family and your wife's family. Find out who the other man is and expose his family also. Keeping it secret will only make them go underground with there affair. they will try to be extra cautious now that you know. It's amazing how many posters who have a cheating spouse won't do what's necessary to end the affair. Exposure is necessary period. Half a$$ actions bring half a$$ results. Man up. Don't be so quick to believe anything she tells you. She will admit what she thinks you already know and say what will make you feel better at the moment. Look up trickle truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DedicatedDad

sooooooo....

SHE tells you it wasn't physical
SHE tells you she will not have any contact with him
SHE tells you she will look into getting a transfer
SHE tells you that you can check her iPhone which tells you nothing

ooooooooooookay.....
So it sounds like you get your heart ripped out, she gets a pass and so does the OM.
Now she knows if she does it again there will be no immediate consequences and all she has to do is TELL you what she plans to do. Great!

*reality check...*
*Cheaters almost ALWAYS LIE during the first confrontation*...this is not over by a long shot!
You have no way of knowing if this was physical or not unless shes agrees to a polygraph test or you gather more evidence.

You need to get a NC letter typed up or written in your presence and mailed with you as a witness, sorry but as long as they work at the same place her agreement to no contact means nothing. You can not trust her word just because she says she will not contact him anymore, she has been going behind your back for months. You need proof not promises.

*Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can even begin to reconcile until the OM is out the picture, anything else and you're just fooling yourself.*

You need to expose this dude that has been trying to bang your wife, don't let him get off that easy, Find out who he is, contact his W/GF. He had no problem trying to destroy your life, why should he get off scot free? Just remember this, if you hadn't busted her, your wife was ready to throw away your marriage for this POS.

Don't wait for her to look into getting a transfer, this has to happen yesterday, either he leaves or she leaves, the next day could turn into the next week and the next week could turn into the next month. *This needs to happen NOW,* not when she gets a chance to look into a transfer.

*Your letting her off too easy and your trying to minimize this AZman, you busted her, she gave you some trickle truth, now you seem okay with everything.
*
Let me tell you something friend, if you take this passive approach, your nightmare has just begun... *
You need to get your wife away from that OM*, If you try to get a shovel and bury this whole thing and go by her words alone, the only thing you'll be digging is a grave for your marriage.

TRUST BUT VERIFY BROTHER!!!...PROOF NOT PROMISES!!!

Good Luck


----------



## Gabriel

Given she just started at the school in August, I actually believe her timeline now. It probably took a little while to start, so 1-2 months makes sense. 

But now that it's happened, if she is truly committed she needs to separate from him completely. Putting in for a transfer is good - hopefully that can happen ASAP.

Guys, we need to be a little gentler here. AZman said himself he hasn't even decided if he wants to R. So she is definitely not getting a pass on this. He is considering his options and his wife knows she is in huge trouble.


----------



## DedicatedDad

Gabriel said:


> Guys, we need to be a little gentler here. *AZman said himself he hasn't even decided if he wants to R*. So she is definitely not getting a pass on this. * He is considering his options and his wife knows she is in huge trouble*.


*My bad, I missed that part...*
No matter what you decide AZman, we are here for you and rooting for you... do what you feel is best, we have given you some options... let us know and keep us posted on what you decide to do...

Good Luck Brother


----------



## The Middleman

AZman, you have my respect for what you've done last night. I was concerned because you waited a few days to confront and you seemed a little timid about approaching her but it seems that you did very well. I like the fact that you have not said "let's reconcile" right away and you are holding divorce out there as a possible outcome. *Don't let her off the hook too easy; she betrayed you*. Seeing as you believe the affair has not gone physical (and you need to find some way to get a comfort level on that) a reconciliation should be easier for you, if that is the path you decide to take.

Please do not minimize the importance of exposing your wife's Other Man to his wife, family and to all of the others at the school. As others here have said most affairs can't survive in the light of day. This is the only way you can help keep them apart as you will have may eyes on them. Her leaving that school is extremely important as well. 

People here can help you recover the deleted texts off of the iPhone (DevastatedDad can help maybe?)

If you do decide to Reconcile, you must verify her actions for a very long time.

We are here for you!


----------



## bfree

I saw somewhere else a cheater's translation guide. Maybe someone needs to post it here for AZman. If she was frantically deleting texts and from your description of her general behavior I can see this going underground and escalating. You are at the nexus right now. You can either strongly blow this out of the water or you can meekly try to nudge her in the right direction. In which case I see you coming back in 3 mos telling us she is still cheating and it went physical (assuming it hasn't already).


----------



## AZman

Thanks all for the support, it has been helpful.

No Reconciliation has not been discussed by me. She has asked if I think I can forgive her, and all I tell her is "I don't know yet and I need time." The words coming from me most frequently are, affair, unacceptable, inappropriate, betrayal. I also told her even if I decide to try, that doesn't mean 3 weeks from now I wake up and say "I can't keep going feeling like this." 

We talked this morning, she is going to request a transfer as well as try to find a position at another school all together to speed things up if necessary. In our state, with teacher contracts, if she quits outright it can be a huge problem and a district can go after her certification. I have asked her though if I said for this to move forward you have to quit tomorrow would you, and she said she would.

My daughter is my world, 100%. Would divorce be hard on her, absolutely, but a marriage of convenience is not an option or a good thing for her to grow up in either. I know that, which is why I have said I need time. I am not willing to live like that for the next 12 years either. I have brought up divorce as well as her staying somewhere else, I have gone as far as to ask her where would she stay? what would we tell our daughter? 

Do I believe there was PA, no. From what I have read and what she has said that aligns with my evidence I do not believe PA took place. Does that make me feel better, no, not on any level. 

She is open to MC and has suggested it. I keep pushing back that I need time to decide what is next and where I want to go.


----------



## Gabriel

Sounds like you have a really good handle on things - way more than most. It does sound like your wife is choosing to do what she needs to do to stay in the marriage.

Given the very brief duration of them even knowing each other, I am optimistic she can free herself from the emotions/lust/etc that overcame her.

Has she been pleading with you, or sounding remorseful, ashamed? What is her demeanor?


----------



## Shaggy

I may have missed it, but how is she going to dump him?

Will she write a NC letter, show it to you, and then have you send it?

The OM needs to be notified in clear terms to leave and stay gone.


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## Will_Kane

What is your gut, would she have gone PA if you didn't take action?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DedicatedDad

Way to go AZman :smthumbup: !!!

You da man! Sounds like you are definitely handling your business!
Go with your gut feeling, you are there with her, we are not. If you love her fight for her. Just don't let her use you as a doormat, you have been there for her and your family and you deserve some respect. You are way ahead of most in your situation. 

We are all pro-family here, so first and foremost, do everything you can to keep your family intact. Sounds like your wife may truly be remorseful, if she is willing to quit if you tell her to, that's a good sign.

I see a happy ending brother... I've got a good feeling about this...
It seems like a crisis may have been averted....Time will tell

Stay on your toes and do what you feel you need to do
We gotcha back if you need us. Keep us posted.

Good Luck


----------



## the guy

You need her on line information and pasword so you can compare her cellphone and online call log. this will tell you if messages were deleted.

You need to see the transferr request paper work.

You need to know when her IC appointment is so she can learn the tools to affair proof her marriage and adrress her lack of boundry, intitlement, validation issues that made her behave the way she did.

No more GNO (girls night out) and no m ore after work drinks.

I would highly recommend that she exposes this to her family and close friends.


These are just some of the consequences she needs to face to have a healthy relationship in the future, and hopefully this would include you and your kid.

The heavy lifting I mention is the things that need to be said when you get the " what do you want me to do" question from her. These actions will help you get the reassurance that R is still posible.

In my case I gave my self a year past d-day (discovery day) do deside in what direction I would go...with in 6-8 months from d-day my oldladies heavy lifting gave me the strength to forgive her, but the R or D was still on the table, after a year I desided to keep my wife...its been almost 3 years now and R is going good.


I have to tell you there is a certain degree of submission on my wifes part that helped me heal.

make no mistake , after 3 years I'm some what retired from the cheater police and only if something odd happens will I verify her story, but for the most part my chick has beed very consistant and transparent along with being accountable for her wereabouts. and the trust is coming back but in the same breath I know her capacity and I know what she has done to prvent these ols behaviors from coming back.

My point is time will tell and if your chick playes her card right, she may beable to stick around a while longer.


----------



## AZman

Will_Kane said:


> What is your gut, would she have gone PA if you didn't take action?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


kissing-probably
Sex-no

I think she enjoyed the attention, but if push came to shove I don't think she would have gone through with it.


----------



## the guy

Shaggy said:


> I may have missed it, but how is she going to dump him?
> 
> Will she write a NC letter, show it to you, and then have you send it?
> 
> The OM needs to be notified in clear terms to leave and stay gone.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is a must.


----------



## AZman

Gabriel said:


> Sounds like you have a really good handle on things - way more than most. It does sound like your wife is choosing to do what she needs to do to stay in the marriage.
> 
> Given the very brief duration of them even knowing each other, I am optimistic she can free herself from the emotions/lust/etc that overcame her.
> 
> Has she been pleading with you, or sounding remorseful, ashamed? What is her demeanor?


At first she didn't show any real emotions, which didn't help me. I think she was scared though. She has been ashamed, sad, remorseful. She has said I just need to let her know what I need, what she can do etc.


----------



## the guy

AZman said:


> kissing-probably
> Sex-no
> 
> I think she enjoyed the attention, but if push came to shove I don't think she would have gone through with it.


Do not let this thinking let this crap get swept under the rug.

You guys have only been married for a short time. Look at the next 8.5 years and by then after 17 years of marriage there is no tell what could happen enles your wife faces this crap head on and learns from it right now....I'm talking preventive maintence here. I'm talking about affar proofing the marriage. What will happen the next time your wife needs a distract 5,8,10 years from now? Thats why what she does now in learning the tools to prvent this bad behavior from coming back is so important.

Again this is a big part of a healthy R knowing there a tools in place that reassure you that this won't happen again.


----------



## the guy

AZman said:


> At first she didn't show any real emotions, which didn't help me. I think she was scared though. She has been ashamed, sad, remorseful. She has said I just need to let her know what I need, what she can do etc.


You should be telling her word for word in what you are reading here on this form. 

Don't be the guy that tells his WW "I don't know what I want".....sure that might be the case just don't let her know this, but use the information from this forum to give your wife the direction she need to keep this family together.

Get a hold of your self and direct this family and protect it.


----------



## AZman

Shaggy said:


> I may have missed it, but how is she going to dump him?
> 
> Will she write a NC letter, show it to you, and then have you send it?
> 
> The OM needs to be notified in clear terms to leave and stay gone.


You didn't miss it. How have others handled this? What are good ways to notify the other person? This is something I still need to explore.


----------



## AZman

the guy said:


> You should be telling her word for word in what you are reading here on this form.
> 
> Don't be the guy that tells his WW "I don't know what I want".....sure that might be the case just don't let her know this, but use the information from this forum to give your wife the direction she need to keep this family together.
> 
> Get a hold of your self and direct this family and protect it.


I have told her I need her to have No Contact, transfer/look for another school, give me time. That is what I can say right now. 

I want to save it, I think I can too, I believe I can handle it and move forward. I just want to assure that my emotions aren't over-riding my brain in making a decision which is why I have yet to say anything about reconciliation. I believe it can be salvaged, I just need to a bit more time to process and decide. I also apparently need to get something more formal in place for the NC. I think that is important as well, just need to get some guidance and advice on how to approach that. 

Again, I cannot say enough how helpful this site and all of you have been. I don't really have any family I can go to (siblings, etc) and I feel really lucky to have found this place. Ultimately I am truly sad I needed to find it but deeply appreciate that it is here.


----------



## tom67

AZman said:


> Thanks all for the support, it has been helpful.
> 
> No Reconciliation has not been discussed by me. She has asked if I think I can forgive her, and all I tell her is "I don't know yet and I need time." The words coming from me most frequently are, affair, unacceptable, inappropriate, betrayal. I also told her even if I decide to try, that doesn't mean 3 weeks from now I wake up and say "I can't keep going feeling like this."
> 
> We talked this morning, she is going to request a transfer as well as try to find a position at another school all together to speed things up if necessary. In our state, with teacher contracts, if she quits outright it can be a huge problem and a district can go after her certification. I have asked her though if I said for this to move forward you have to quit tomorrow would you, and she said she would.
> 
> My daughter is my world, 100%. Would divorce be hard on her, absolutely, but a marriage of convenience is not an option or a good thing for her to grow up in either. I know that, which is why I have said I need time. I am not willing to live like that for the next 12 years either. I have brought up divorce as well as her staying somewhere else, I have gone as far as to ask her where would she stay? what would we tell our daughter?
> 
> Do I believe there was PA, no. From what I have read and what she has said that aligns with my evidence I do not believe PA took place. Does that make me feel better, no, not on any level.
> 
> She is open to MC and has suggested it. I keep pushing back that I need time to decide what is next and where I want to go.


Good take your time expose to her family and your family and ask for support for the marriage. Trust but verify and good luck!


----------



## the guy

Again I wait month to tell my wife I forgave her and a year to tell he I'll keep her around.

So its all good, she needs to believe that her heavy lifting is needed to stay around. 

The last thing you want is yout wife thinking all is good and you have settled.

Alot a guys make the mistake in fogiving to soon and letting there WW know they want to work it out, only to find that the WW has gone back to her old ways think her doormat of a husband insn;t going any were....make sense why you holding off on telling the misses "I want to work it out".....it just not time yet brother.


----------



## the guy

Even if you had family around they wouldn't understand enless they went through this crap. Just like me and you and a bunch of other guys here at TAM.


----------



## the guy

AZman said:


> You didn't miss it. How have others handled this? What are good ways to notify the other person? This is something I still need to explore.


Its called a no contact letter that is hand writen to the AP (affair partner) by your WW. Its a statement that says she was wrong and has owned up to her bad choices(not mistakes this is no misstake). A statement that includes not making excuses for her behavior but why she wants her husband. A statement that vilifies *her and OM* actions and why her husband is the man she wants and why.

Becarefull alot of the NC letters turn out to be apoligize to the OM for the break up...IT'S NOT.... it's a statement in how wrong they both were in the affair.


Guys that mess with married women do not get apologizes or closure. They get dropped hard and fast.


----------



## Wazza

Silverlining said:


> She can either stop all contact with OM or take this relationship underground. You need to get full transparency from her. She needs to give you the password to her cell and not be allowed to delete text messages.
> 
> Treat this like a drug! Most way wards are not able to quit cold turkey. They keep going back to get one last fix. Stay strong, you are not out of the woods yet.
> 
> Trust but verify everything.
> 
> Eta: you may think you got full disclosure, but unless you verify her story with other man or have her take a polygraph, you don't really know for sure.


He had a degree of external verification.

Polygraphs can be wrong. Lovers can corroborate a concocted story. No extra closure there imo.

Trust but verify. Yes.


----------



## Gabriel

the guy said:


> Its called a no contact letter that is hand writen to the AP (affair partner) by your WW. Its a statement that says she was wrong and has owned up to her bad choices(not mistakes this is no misstake). A statement that includes not making excuses for her behavior but why she wants her husband. A statement that vilifies *her and OM* actions and why her husband is the man she wants and why.
> 
> Becarefull alot of the NC letters turn out to be apoligize to the OM for the break up...IT'S NOT.... it's a statement in how wrong they both were in the affair.
> 
> 
> Guys that mess with married women do not get apologizes or closure. They get dropped hard and fast.


I agree with the content of this. I disagree with some folks on here about the method of delivery. IMHO, she can deliver it however she wants as long as you have proof of it. No in person meeting though, and if it's a phone call, it needs to be on speaker so you can hear both sides.

Sometimes we all like to put things in a cookbook and say the recipe must be followed. In reality, just make sure you follow the basic ideas. No contact is a basic idea.

Some things you should expect:

1) Your emotions will roller coaster for months. You'll feel a lot better in stretches, then fall back into the hell hole. Up and down for various lengths of time.

2) At some point, your wife will become very depressed for two reasons - a) because she no longer gets her fun emotional outlet of the OM, and b) because she will begin to feel self-loathing for what she's done.

3) Your wife will become more suspicious of you than ever before - worrying about a revenge affair. Allay that the best you can.

4) You need to bring up the affair from time to time to process and get through it, but down the road at some point, she will reach a capacity for handling these conversations and feeling beat up. She may even say something to the effect of "you need to get over it". This will be a low point in your reconciliation. Be ready.

5) You will likely, very soon, begin to have phenomenal sex. This is called hysterical bonding - when a couple realizes they have almost lost each other, and the pull to engage sexually becomes stronger than it ever has before. It may just last a few days, or maybe a few weeks. Then it stops. My wife and I are a once-a-week couple, and we had sex 9 straight nights, and 13 out of 14. I didn't even think I was capable of that.

My advice to you is to make sure you get to the gym and work out. Force yourself to eat three squares a day. Go ahead and get to counseling. See friends.

Good luck.


----------



## Almostrecovered

do seriously consider finding OM's SO and telling her, she deserves to know and it will help kill the affair on his end


----------



## The Middleman

the guy said:


> Its called a no contact letter that is hand writen to the AP (affair partner) by your WW. Its a statement that says she was wrong and has owned up to her bad choices(not mistakes this is no misstake). A statement that includes not making excuses for her behavior but why she wants her husband. A statement that vilifies *her and OM* actions and why her husband is the man she wants and why.
> 
> Becarefull alot of the NC letters turn out to be apoligize to the OM for the break up...IT'S NOT.... it's a statement in how wrong they both were in the affair.
> 
> Guys that mess with married women do not get apologizes or closure. They get dropped hard and fast.


Here is one thing I saw in a "No Contact Letter" once. A Wayward Wife wrote a NC letter to her Other Man (a co-worker) and it had a sentence in it that went something like this:



> Please do not e-mail me, text message me, call me or speak to me again. If you do I will file a harassment complaint with Human Resources and a stalking complaint with the Police Department.


I like this!


----------



## Almostrecovered

there's a template in my newbie in my signature for a NC letter


----------



## warlock07

AZman said:


> kissing-probably
> Sex-no
> 
> I think she enjoyed the attention, but if push came to shove I don't think she would have gone through with it.


Read this thread... Your trust in your wife implicitly

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57247-she-cheated-i-hate-my-life.html

The guy's christian, prudish counselor wife cheated on him.. She took it underground and had a PA when he initially found them sexting


----------



## AZman

warlock07 said:


> Read this thread... Your trust in your wife implicitly
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57247-she-cheated-i-hate-my-life.html
> 
> The guy's christian, prudish counselor wife cheated on him.. She took it underground and had a PA when he initially found them sexting


I read through some large chunks of that thread. Is it common for a couple to end up here? It just seems so strange but maybe talking in text format, not face to face helps keep the emotion out for some?


----------



## AZman

It was a hard day at work, besides the fact I slept about an hour last night and went 24 hours without food. Wife was on a field trip with students, the other person was not on it but I kept wondering if they were texting, chatting, etc. 

It sucks that you have to jailbreak an Iphone to monitor it. All her products are Apple, couple that with Google's "chatting off the record" and one doesn't even have to work hard to cover tracks.

I have made a list of the people (mostly mutual friends) that she has to disclose to, I haven't told her yet. I will be curious to see how she takes it. I am still trying to decide how to involve my parents who adore her.


----------



## The Middleman

AZman said:


> I read through some large chunks of that thread. Is it common for a couple to end up here? It just seems so strange but maybe talking in text format, not face to face helps keep the emotion out for some?


Learn from this guy's mistakes. I sent you a PM.


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## cj9947

AZman said:


> kissing-probably
> Sex-no
> 
> I think she enjoyed the attention, but if push came to shove I don't think she would have gone through with it.


"...I don't think she would have gone through with it." - did you think she would was capable of her recent actions? Going forward, you will learn the need for double checking your beliefs. Are they based on factual evidence or emotional wishes? I have had to learn how little I knew about my wife's beliefs. Sometimes I think we project our values and beliefs on our spouse and think they are their beliefs and values. They are not in allot of cases.

Since my wife's PA, I learned that she and her family thought "adultery" was just stupid. Not really immoral, evil or destructive. Kind of "stupid" like getting caught in a white lie.


----------



## Will_Kane

AZman said:


> kissing-probably
> Sex-no
> 
> I think she enjoyed the attention, but if push came to shove I don't think she would have gone through with it.


I was just taking your temperature to see how much in the fog you might be. Adults who are sexting each other don't stop at kissing. Where would the kissing occur? How long would it go on? Would there be groping, too? Are you imagining a peck on the cheek? After what you read in those texts? Don't kid yourself, and don't let your wife kid you. She lied to you for months while this was going on, she can lie to you now after the fact. 

You believe the parts of the texts that say it didn't become physical yet, but you don't believe the parts of the texts that say it would become physical in the future. I'm trying to get you to see what kind of animal you are dealing with here. This was not harmless flirty fun, as much as your wife would like to sell that story to you and as much as you would love to believe it.

And there were more than just texts. They did see and talk to each other at the school. What types of interaction did they have in person at the school? Did she tell you anything about that?

She could still make it physical, even now after being found out, she does still work with him. Others have pointed you at threads here where that has happened, apparently it is not that uncommon.

Do you think your wife is afraid to smile and say hello to this guy if she passes him in the hall? Afraid to have sex with him in an empty room if the opportunity presents itself, what's the harm, she'll have to transfer out soon anyway? Afraid that you will somehow find out? You can see why she's got to get out of there. If she doesn't, you will go crazy. There was even one guy on here whose wife transferred out of the building, but other man was able to "fill in" in the wife's school, and did (yes, they also were teachers).

As far as monitoring the phone/email/etc., get the passwords, tell her not to delete anything, then match up to the bill. This really is fool's gold, with technology today, there always are many, many ways to defeat this type of monitoring. And cheaters expect you to monitor their phones/emails, so only the real dumb ones get caught this way.

I think the voice-activated recorder in the car works better because the cheater does not expect it to be there, even if they buy a burner phone, even if they use an untraceable app, the VAR will pick it up. Many, if not most, cheaters call each other on the way to work, on the way home, a lot even sit in the cars and talk at lunch, some even do more than that in the car at lunch or during their break time.


----------



## JCD

AZman said:


> She referred to it as a distraction from everything going on with us, whcih she agreed is not an acceptable reason. She has only been at this school for 4 months, so long term is not an option, prior to August she had never met this person, this I know to be fact.
> 
> -She said she does not love them.
> -She confirmed nothing physical.
> -She apologized.
> -She offerred her Iphone password, and I could check it but there is no way to know if texts are deleted so that really isn't going ot do anything.
> -She gave her reasons about seeking a connection, feeling lonely, enjoying the chase, but agreed that it in the end is/was an affair, and isn't acceptable.
> -Working in education in the past, I know going to HR is going to do nothing especially me being outside the organization. No physical interaction occurred that I can prove, nothing happened at work that I can prove, so there is no steps I can see the school really taking.
> 
> We did talk about divorce, separation. We talked about how that would impact our daughter. I have not offerred reconciliation at any level yet and am not sure when or how I will make that decision.
> 
> Thanks for the support.


Here is my dream no contact letter.

"Dear Mr. Scumbag, (you might want to use his real last name. First names are for intimate conversation. So she doesn't get to call him Rod or whatever his POS name is)

I am ending our relationship right now for good. Do not look for closure. Do not look for making thing end on a good note. This is the FINAL note.

Do not text me.

Do not call me.

Do not email me.

Do not get on any field trips I am going on.

Do not join any volunteer work I'm working on.

Do not sit near me at any of the meetings.

Do not wave at me and smile from across the auditorium.

Please see the set of sexual harassment paperwork I've filled out. The only thing I've left blank is the date of the offense. Attached are the numerous horribly betraying texts you and I shared in our affair. This will be sufficient to get HR's notice.

So if you violate ANY of these things, it will be filed the next day because the other set of paperwork I've received is yet to be filed divorce paperwork from my husband. 

I will not lose my husband, my daughter, my reputation or my career because of a person like you. YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT.

I would suggest you transfer to another school soon as the sight of you just reminds me of everything I put at risk and makes me sick to my stomach.

If you walk toward me in school, I will make a scene as back up for that harassment complaint.

Do not respond to this letter."


----------



## RClawson

bfree said:


> What is it with all the teachers cheating?


Educators cheat more than any other profession.


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## tom67

RClawson said:


> Educators cheat more than any other profession.


Don't forget doctors/nurses


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## The Middleman

AZman - Keep us up to date on how things are going.


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## RWB

Will_Kane said:


> I was just taking your temperature to see how much in the fog you might be. Adults who are sexting each other don't stop at kissing. Where would the kissing occur? How long would it go on? Would there be groping, too? Are you imagining a peck on the cheek? After what you read in those texts? Don't kid yourself, and don't let your wife kid you. She lied to you for months while this was going on, she can lie to you now after the fact.


AZ,

My wife is a teacher and she carried on a year long affair with her principal. It went from talking to email to meeting in his office on weekends (to catch up on work, yeah). I got the same story... Kissing and groping. The truth was full on sex. 

You want to believe the best possible scenario... Wake it up. Your wife and this OM are adults not 16 year old's in the back seat of dad's Chevy. Adults in an affair for months on end rarely "just kiss"... the cloths were coming off. 

BTW... Kissing and groping constitutes a PA.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

DedicatedDad said:


> sooooooo....
> 
> SHE tells you it wasn't physical
> SHE tells you she will not have any contact with him
> SHE tells you she will look into getting a transfer
> SHE tells you that you can check her iPhone which tells you nothing
> 
> ooooooooooookay.....
> So it sounds like you get your heart ripped out, she gets a pass and so does the OM.
> Now she knows if she does it again there will be no immediate consequences and all she has to do is TELL you what she plans to do. Great!
> 
> *reality check...*
> *Cheaters almost ALWAYS LIE during the first confrontation*...this is not over by a long shot!
> You have no way of knowing if this was physical or not unless shes agrees to a polygraph test or you gather more evidence.
> 
> You need to get a NC letter typed up or written in your presence and mailed with you as a witness, sorry but as long as they work at the same place her agreement to no contact means nothing. You can not trust her word just because she says she will not contact him anymore, she has been going behind your back for months. You need proof not promises.
> 
> *Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can even begin to reconcile until the OM is out the picture, anything else and you're just fooling yourself.*
> 
> You need to expose this dude that has been trying to bang your wife, don't let him get off that easy, Find out who he is, contact his W/GF. He had no problem trying to destroy your life, why should he get off scot free? Just remember this, if you hadn't busted her, your wife was ready to throw away your marriage for this POS.
> 
> Don't wait for her to look into getting a transfer, this has to happen yesterday, either he leaves or she leaves, the next day could turn into the next week and the next week could turn into the next month. *This needs to happen NOW,* not when she gets a chance to look into a transfer.
> 
> *Your letting her off too easy and your trying to minimize this AZman, you busted her, she gave you some trickle truth, now you seem okay with everything.
> *
> Let me tell you something friend, if you take this passive approach, your nightmare has just begun... *
> You need to get your wife away from that OM*, If you try to get a shovel and bury this whole thing and go by her words alone, the only thing you'll be digging is a grave for your marriage.
> 
> TRUST BUT VERIFY BROTHER!!!...PROOF NOT PROMISES!!!
> 
> Good Luck


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

(BTW, that is one cool looking avatar - even cooler if it's your actual picture.)


----------



## thesunwillcomeout

_


AZman said:



It sucks that you have to jailbreak an Iphone to monitor it. All her products are Apple, couple that with Google's "chatting off the record" and one doesn't even have to work hard to cover tracks. QUOTE]

Click to expand...

_


AZman said:


> If your phones are on the same plan you can create an online account and track usage for each phone. You can't see the actual content but you can obtain a record of every text and phone call. Unfortunately if they use the iphone via the webbrowser or another app to communicate it'll just show up as 'data usage'. But if txt'ing via #, then you're golden. I learned that on this site and it helped me enormously bring out more truth. With exception of one big coming clean I had to chase down and hunt down all my husband's trickle truth. It sucks. But heck -- more you can know, the better.


----------



## DedicatedDad

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> (BTW, that is one cool looking avatar - even cooler if it's your actual picture.)


*Thanks for the compliment Count...*
That is not me sitting in the chair in my avatar pic.
That is Larry Fishburne from the movie *"The Matrix"*
*The Dedicated Dad looks much cooler than that*


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## AZman

RWB said:


> AZ,
> 
> My wife is a teacher and she carried on a year long affair with her principal. It went from talking to email to meeting in his office on weekends (to catch up on work, yeah). I got the same story... Kissing and groping. The truth was full on sex.
> 
> You want to believe the best possible scenario... Wake it up. Your wife and this OM are adults not 16 year old's in the back seat of dad's Chevy. Adults in an affair for months on end rarely "just kiss"... the cloths were coming off.
> 
> BTW... Kissing and groping constitutes a PA.


You miss-read some earlier messages based on someone asking me what I thought would have happened. I agree that kissing and touching =PA.


----------



## Wazza

tom67 said:


> Don't forget doctors/nurses


I'm beginning to think every profession cheats more than every other profession, based on my time here


----------



## Wazza

AZman said:


> You miss-read some earlier messages based on someone asking me what I thought would have happened. I agree that kissing and touching =PA.


AZman, you probably / hopefully (?) caught things in time, but in your shoes I would still look for ways I could verify her actions that she doesn't know about, until such time as OM is out of the picture.


----------



## Jonesey

thesunwillcomeout said:


> _
> 
> 
> AZman said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sucks that you have to jailbreak an Iphone to monitor it. All her products are Apple, couple that with Google's "chatting off the record" and one doesn't even have to work hard to cover tracks. QUOTE]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> 
> AZman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your phones are on the same plan you can create an online account and track usage for each phone. You can't see the actual content but you can obtain a record of every text and phone call. Unfortunately if they use the iphone via the webbrowser or another app to communicate it'll just show up as 'data usage'. But if txt'ing via #, then you're golden. I learned that on this site and it helped me enormously bring out more truth. With exception of one big coming clean I had to chase down and hunt down all my husband's trickle truth. It sucks. But heck -- more you can know, the better.
> 
> 
> 
> Just to ad one thing..IPhone, IPad. If you use IMessage via wireless to another Apple, and rhen delite. You will have know way
> 
> Of knowing.
Click to expand...


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## AZman

As far as updates:
I have been able to review her phone, email and Ipad. 

The first night D-Day she was deleting texts on her phone in the car, but didn't realize that she would have to delete them off the other device, the Ipad that is linked to the same account directly, but they don't do it automatically apparently. (The Ipad wasn't with her, so I know it is it wasn't altered). So between the two devices I had access to all texts. I was also able to dig through browsing histories on all the devices, pull old messages, check cache stuff like that, check computer internet history. I also pulled cell bills for the last few months and see that data usage is normal, and that phone calls weren’t happening. 

All this did was confirmed and align with what I already know. No new evidence came to light, just what I knew and what she told me as far as time line. 

She shut off all the passwords on the phone and agreed to not delete any texts.

The NC was done yesterday via phone, and I was present. Today is the first day they could actually see one another, so it isn't a great feeling. 

I have my first IC next Monday afternoon, and she has agreed to IC as well. I explained I want IC to deal with the anger and frustration I feel so I can move on regardless of if it is with her or not. I want her to get IC to figure out how she can prevent this in the future, why it happened etc. 

MC may come, but I told her I have decide what I want first. So she is sad, embarrassed, ashamed etc. I have not brought up R on any level, though she has asked about it. 

I think these last two points really have solidified the reality of the situation for her. We talked more about Divorce last night. I told her that I know it would be hard on our daughter, but it would harder on her growing up with a miserable parent, stuck in a shell of a marriage.

I described myself as being in a tunnel that has had a cave-in and the smoke hasn't cleared enough for me to even see if there is light at the end of the tunnel or just a wall of rocks and rubble in front of me. I have told her I am not sure when the smoke will clear for me, so I need time. 

I know she wants R, and forgiveness. She was really sad today when we left for work trying to give me assurances that she would have no contact with them. 

On a positive, I was able to talk through it all verbally last night for long time with an old friend who knows both of us. He was a great resource and able to put things in perspective and help me adjust some of my thoughts and such. He had a GF cheat (PA) a few years ago so has experience. He is also an attorney (not in my state) and offered to help get me subpoenas of texts if I wanted, referrals to Divorce lawyers things like that. 

I will have to see how tonight goes but that is it for now. I am wondering WTF this weekend is going to be like. The work week has given me breaks and at least given me distractions at times.


----------



## the guy

This is an important moment to night. When she gets back from work/seeing the OM alot of emotions will be coming up with her. Be very observient. If she is in the same state as she was when she left for work then all is good for now, but if she is back to her old self while in the affair, then the OM has contacted her and influenced the dynamic.

I've read about it before when a wayward is fully remorsefull for a few days while this fragile marriage and the affair is disected, but then everyone goes back to the day to day and especially when its a coworker sitch....the waywards gets influenced in a negitive way. come back and changes her tune and professes that she will not be a prisoner to the cheater police and will not be controled and other crap like that. God I hope this is not the case!

What was your perception to the NC phone call did you hear the OM's responses and did he know you were on the phone?

Just be very observent with regards to her behavior tonight. Hopefully she was not influences in a negitive way.


----------



## the guy

Hopefully the weekend is good and you get a little hysterical bonding. whats good about the week end is that "influence" will be out of her sight for 2 days.

Push that transfer ASAP!

Not only is the OM influencing the marriage, but all those toxic work friends aren't helping.


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## AZman

*The Guy-*
Interesting that you mention the "hysterical bonding." If that were to occur, wouldn't that be a sign to her that R and forgiveness are happening? I haven't been in any mood like that for a few days, but should I only let that occur after my mind has cleared? Just curious how that has gone for others? 

I agree to totally watch her behavior and such tonight to see if anything is different. 

I actually had a brief conversation today about something else, that wasn't related to the EA or my daughter. I was curious to see if she bought a powerball ticket (hopeful) since an AZ person won 1/2 the jackpot, nope.

*Decorum-*the other person is not in a serious relationship and has no family in this state.


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## Gabriel

Hysterical bonding is natural and not forced. It doesn't happen to everyone. It usually arises once the initial shock and awe of everything has dissipated some and both parties know the other one is open to R.

Since you aren't even sure if you want R, this hasn't occurred, and may not ever. If you do get to a point where you would like to put R on the table, and tell her so, this is when I predict that will happen.

Think of it like you both survived a plane crash and thought you would never see each other again. Then when you realize you both survived, you go at it like rabbits. But you also realize you have to take a lot more flights ahead that might kill you. Part of it is that fear of loss.


----------



## the guy

This can be argued but in my case I saw sex as the glue to keep/ show my wife I was a better lover then any of thise POS that banged her. Im wired different then most! I had sex after I spanked her. This happened the next day after d-day and confronting 

Even though the reality has hit your WW, and your confrontation was very effective I would throw your chick a bone for her efforts in doing the heavy lifting. Call it a reward for good behavior ...so far. As long as she comes home and plays by your rules I'd go for it.


But and this is a very big but.....it is recommende to verify and confirm her recommitment and NC before sex. many believe sex and and intamacy is a reward and often can't stomach the though of rewarding there waward this way.

Its your call, does she diserve a sex filled weekend...can you handle a sex filed weekend with her?


Maybe it my competive nature and I just had to show my wife who was boss and had sex right of way. Some guys have triggers having sex with the WW.


----------



## the guy

Gabriel said:


> Since you aren't even sure if you want R,


It was my understanding OP wants R but will not let her get away with believing he will tolorate his wife bullcrap. So as to leave his wife hanging, with the perception that she is about to lose her marriage if it continued.

Now if he has sex will she think it ok to continue the A thinking her betrayed H has settled down.

A very tough question.


----------



## The Middleman

First off AZ man, you have my respect and you have become role model for betrayed husbands on what to do with a WW in an EA. You recovered from your shaky start beautifully. It’s fortunate that you were able to catch this before a PA. If you do decide to “R”, it will make it that much easier.

*You mentioned the no contact call. How did that go?* Could you hear his end of the conversation? Was the wording stern enough and forceful enough to convince the ass clown OM that she is serious about never speaking to him again? Did she sound sincere about what she was saying when talking to him? Were there any hints that she was trying to have closure with him? All of this is important to see if she is serious about no contact. What you want to try to determine is: will she be missing him.

When she comes home, discuss her day with her and don’t be afraid to ask her if she saw him and how she felt about it. I think you should be doing that for a while and she needs to be prepared to answer this question often.

Hope you have a great weekend, hysterical bonding or not. And yes, hysterical bonding does not mean you are in “R”, and you should make that clear to her that you both are in “R” when *you* say you are in “R”.


----------



## Gabriel

AZman said:


> *I explained I want IC to deal with the anger and frustration I feel so I can move on regardless of if it is with her or not. *
> 
> *MC may come, but I told her I have decide what I want first. So she is sad, embarrassed, ashamed etc. I have not brought up R on any level, though she has asked about it. *
> 
> I think these last two points really have solidified the reality of the situation for her. We talked more about Divorce last night. I told her that I know it would be hard on our daughter, but it would harder on her growing up with a miserable parent, stuck in a shell of a marriage.
> 
> I described myself as being in a tunnel that has had a cave-in and the smoke hasn't cleared enough for me to even see if there is light at the end of the tunnel or just a wall of rocks and rubble in front of me. I have told her I am not sure when the smoke will clear for me, so I need time.
> 
> I know she wants R, and forgiveness. She was really sad today when we left for work trying to give me assurances that she would have no contact with them.
> 
> On a positive, I was able to talk through it all verbally last night for long time with an old friend who knows both of us. He was a great resource and able to put things in perspective and help me adjust some of my thoughts and such. He had a GF cheat (PA) a few years ago so has experience. He is also an attorney (not in my state) and offered to help get me subpoenas of texts if I wanted, referrals to Divorce lawyers things like that.
> He also said he may know some people (PIs and tech industry folks) that might have a way to monitor an Iphone without jail breaking and will get back to me. So I feel fortunate to have him as a resource, but more importantly someone I can talk to.
> 
> I will have to see how tonight goes but that is it for now. I am wondering WTF this weekend is going to be like. The work week has given me breaks and at least given me distractions at times.


See bold - he has NOT decided to R yet.


----------



## AZman

At my core do I want R, yes. I can say that here. Am I ready to say that to her, do I trust that I am out of the fog enough yet to say that to her, no. That is where I am in all reality.


----------



## tom67

Maybe you can get a babysitter for some alone time this weekend couldn,t hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AZman

As far as the NC process I believe it was clear and sincere. But 5 days ago I believed my wife wouldn't do something like this, so I am not exactly confident in my judgements. 

Everything I believe to be essential (unacceptable, possibility of divorce, separation) were discussed. This no contact is an attempt for her to try to save her marriage. She wants to stay married and what took place was unacceptable and hurt my H deeply. What took place was wrong and unacceptable. Contact cannot and will not continue. I am looking to transfer or find a new job, he has said that to consider moving forward I may have to quit this job. I want to be with my H, I want to save my marriage.

In the immediate situation, I realize that there maybe "contact" as required by their jobs. Talking about students, things of that nature, but my stipulations were only as essential and mandatory, never alone under any circumstances. Also I have unrestricted access to all technology she cannot delete any texts, clear logs, historys etc., on any device.


----------



## the guy

Until she is transferred and has *complete* NC I would be cautious. Every time she goes to work those old feeling will come back.
I would be affraid that once you announce your true disire to R she will will be less cautious in starting up again.You keep it on the down low and keep responding to her requests forR as you have been.

My thinking would be like " AZman is all settled down now, he ain't going any were, lets go have some drinks, I'll tell AZman that I'm working late".

In fact I would go as far as letting her know that "by the time the transfer goes thru we can see were we are at". Let her know you guys are still together so far so good.

It truely is a balancing act and you are the only one that can get a feel for how your wife is responding.

I really think it all about how submissive she is to meeting your needs in such a fragile time. 

Your confrontation was strong and we all know how addicting the Om can be so she really needs to find another school and get away from OM before you make any real announcement with regards to keeping her around. I think as long as your wife is unsure of what you are going to do it will balance out her disire to go back to OM.

In the same breath if she see's you moving on with out her she may feel drawn to OM again.

Again you have to really balance it all out, I say let the HB begin this weekend and announce your commitment to R after the job. transfer.


----------



## Wazza

Remember this is the Internet. If she looks she can read what you write here.

Careful what you reveal.


----------



## AZman

I must have missed Warlock's question. 

I definitely believe she is in the 2nd group, the lonely one without a doubt. We actually had a discussion about trying to work on our relationship, both shared how we felt and how we have felt for some time. I would say both of us were kind of running through the motions of it all. We had agreed to work on things, try to fix things and make our relationship better. It was just unfortunate that the the EA came to light shortly there after. She has told me that after our discussion about trying to fix this she had decided to commit to "us" and only be involved with the other person as it relates to work. True or not I have no proof or evidence. I can say that the "bad" or worst texts, the ones that told me they were having a relationship were written prior to this discussion between the two of us. But again it is hard to tell, the timeline from dicsussing trying to fix our marriage, discovering the evidence, and the "outing day" was less than 5 days. 

Reading the texts and such, I see it started as a friendship and moved towards kind of an infatuation of sorts. She said she liked the attention stuff like that, this person gave her someone to talk to. All that stuff (I imagine it has been said a lot here in other threads). 

The "L" word never came up on any level in text or email. She told me that she didn't love them and didn't want to be with them. 

I believe this may have been different if some more time had elapsed, the EA was by her time line at the longest 2 months old. They have only known one another for 4 months so this wasn't a "long term" EA type case.


----------



## AZman

Wazza said:


> Remember this is the Internet. If she looks she can read what you write here.
> 
> Careful what you reveal.


Totally agree, but I am using my work laptop which requires my index finger to unlock, an "in private browser" that does not save passwords, and a username that I have never used on any other site or anything before. 

Thanks though.


----------



## Will_Kane

The one really bad thing is the daily face-to-face contact at school. Everything else is going OK for you.

Plant a seed with your wife, what kind of man goes after a married woman? She probably still sees other man in a positive light, even if she doesn't tell you she does. Help her to see, as subtly as possible, that other man is NOT an honorable guy, honorable guys don't go after married women. This may help her maintain no contact when she sees him every day. I am assuming he made first contact as decorum said, she was the new girl in town and he was looking for fresh meat. She was new, he showed her the ropes, made her feel comfortable and she was all too willing to go along when he started to escalate it. Who knows, after he played the nice guy a while, she may have been the one to escalate it to the next level.

Anyway, if you look at enough threads here, and just use your common sense, you can see that them having regular contact is going to kill any chance you have at reconciliation. If she liked him before, and the only difference is that you found out, then she probably still likes him now, he is the same person, unchanged by your knowledge. Even though she said she wouldn't talk to him, bit by bit she may. 

If he sees her in the hall and makes a comment to her about her butt, will she tell you? She'll be afraid that you will blow up her job and her marriage, so maybe she won't. Then they will have that secret between them. This is how it starts up again, slowly at first, in small steps, until it once again is inappropriate, if they have daily contact and you can't see it.

Even if nothing goes on and they never speak again, knowing they are together in there and not knowing what is going on really will do a job on your mental health. This will manifest in your relationship with her, whom you naturally will blame for your stress. It really makes reconciliation just about impossible. I am not aware of any couple that ever successfully reconciled when there was daily contact with the affair partner.

I recommend you get a voice-activated recorder for her car and monitor for your own mental health.


----------



## bfree

Azman,

You do realize if you R that she MUST leave her job right? You absolutely cannot R with her still working with the OM. It has never worked. This is a very important time. If she has contact with him for a long period of time she might grow closer to him and eventually decide he is better suited to her than you are. After all she probably sees him more than she sees you. It seems that you caught this early but continued contact will completely negate this advantage.


----------



## Machiavelli

AZman, was her affair partner another woman? If so, you may find this article useful for some insight into what's going on in her head.


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## JCD

tom67 said:


> Maybe you can get a babysitter for some alone time this weekend couldn,t hurt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unless she has clymidia. Ensure a FULL STD test before you are intimate. Make her use your family doctor.


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## Gabriel

AZman said:


> The "L" word never came up on any level in text or email. She told me that she didn't love them and didn't want to be with them.


This is the second time, IIRC, you used the word, "Them" when describing who she did this with. Very strange wording. Why are you saying "Them"?


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## RWB

Decorum said:


> Az,
> 
> Do you think this is your wife' 1st rodeo (sorry its a vile but common term here)?
> 
> Have there been times before when she was working unusual hours, seemed to pull away, was avoiding sex, etc..?
> 
> Take care!


AZ,

When I caught my wife cheating... I started to think about the past and it all made since that this was not the 1st time she had cheated. For the first couple of days she insisted that it was a One Time Mistake (affair). It took a few days to for me to see through the fog. I didn't want to believe that she could be a serial cheater. It took some work... but the truth is out there.


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## AZman

Decorum said:


> I noticed that to.
> 
> AZ the pronoun should be "him" for the third-person masculine singular as an object of the sentence.
> 
> Is this just a typo?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AZman

Just one person and this is the first time we have had anything like this in our relationship/marriage. 

Generally I have referred to "the other person" in my posts, using "them" was just an error not meant as a plural form. Guess I am tired today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

As a precaution you should put a VAR in her car to see who she is talking to and if its about the affair. Velcro it under the seat. Burner phones are also a possibility. If he is an experienced cheat he may not give up. If so he will find ways to throw you under the bus and make himself look good.

Personally I would contact him myself to put the fear of God in him. Most here do not agree.

As soon as possible get the misnamed book Married Man Sex Life for a look at the dynamic of why an affair starts. This is a must read for every man.

Amazon.com: married man sex life


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## Chaparral

Here are the wayward spouse instructions. If you have read it with her from the newbies thread let me know and I will delete it, its a bit long.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## AZman

*Chapparal*-that was a long read, but I appreciate it. I copied/pasted it to an email and sent it to my wife as well. I would say much of that is accurate for me.


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## Gabriel

Any update AZman?


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## lordmayhem

The update is that his WW now had a PA with OM#2. This is her second affair in less than a year!!!

She is now an experienced serial cheater. She became an expert at lying, but once again got careless.

Unfortunately, this is one of those stories where the OP comes back to report things are worse.

This cheater didn't learn anything except that AZman won't divorce her. She did learn how to cry crocodile tears and fake remorse.


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