# Where do I go from here?



## Alpinglow

Last Wednesday, my wife of 8 years informed me that she wanted to consider separating. I was totally shocked. Knowing something must be up, I checked her text messages and validated that she had been seeing someone else. That night, I confronted her on the affair and she admitted it, but said it had only been three weeks and was totally plutonic. Based on her short timeframe of her recently erratic behavior, I am leaning towards beleveing her. 

As we talked she said that she hadn't been happy in our marriage for a long time, but was just now realizing it. She sited just about every little fight we ever had (very infrequent compared to most of our friends), she sited our lack of intimacy and our recent limited communication due to my business travel etc. All of these issues are valid, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to fix things on my side. I'm just so frustrated that I wasn't given the opportunity to work them out with her as a team before she cut bait and started seeing someone else. 

All of this is so unlike her. She is a rock who everyone else leans on for advice. She also bottles things up and I think this is a lot of regressed emotion coming out all at once. She says she has lost the ability to feel anything, but seems genuinely concerned over my well being and our children's. 

We have two beautiful children who adore their mom and worship me. My son is 4 and my daughter is 2. The thought of informing them that mom or dad might move out is killing me. 

After much discussion, I talked her into counseling, but she still often brings up separation. We have our first session next Thursday, but I fear that she is just going through the motions.

Here's my problem. I will do anything to save my marriage...anything. And if a trial separation gives her the time she needs to think things through while we go to counseling then I am all for it. 

That being said, if separation just allows her to pursue this 3rd party then I can't support it. in one conversation she mentioned that it was unbelievably selfish of me not to help her finance an apartment for herself and that I was trying to control her. I explained that I could'nt bring myself to finance the potential destruction of my marriage, knowing that she would just be using that freedom to date others.

We are very amicable, and have talked very calmly about everything. She is very happy with how I am handling this and has praised me for being really nice about it all. I can tell she is hurting and confused, and I want more than anything to help her. But I can't do so when it isn't in my best interest (i.e. Allowing her to move out so she can escalate the with this guy).

Anybody else been through this? What do I do here?


----------



## anchorwatch

Where on a list of things to do about a failing marriage is to have an affair? 

Start here, http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

You're correct, separation only means time to try on the new man. Don't support the affair and don't move out of your house. MC won't work with three people in a marriage. Who else knows? Can you get rid of the OM?

Others will be along. 

Best


----------



## Alpinglow

Thanks so much for the response. Just being able to write this was therapeutic. Looking forward to see how others might handle.


----------



## anchorwatch

You're behind the curve. Read the link I gave you.

Good luck.


----------



## Lostinthought61

you can't fix a marriage apart.........you need to be under the same roof, you need to show her who you can be, you can move to the guest room but not out the door, plus the last thing you want is that OM to come to your house.


----------



## Acoa

The OM is a huge problem in reconciling. Is he married? if yes, find a way to let his wife know. Don't give your W any warning, just find her and tell her. That will end that. No amount of counseling is going to help if she still has an affair going on the side. Trust me, I went through 2 years of it with my Ex. The whole time she was sleeping with other men behind my back. 

In her texts, did they talk like they were "Soul mates" and "meant to be together"? If yes, then this is probably the only "other man" (OM). If it's just playful banter and flirting eluding to sex. Then you may have more to worry about. My Ex was a cheater of opportunity. She didn't go out of her way to create opportunity, as she knew I'd spot it. But any man who crossed her path was fair game. My first Dday was in regards to sexting with 2 guys. Then we 'worked' on our marriage for 2 years. Over those 2 years she had sex with 2 other guys, one of them repeatedly. It wasn't until I let my guard down that she made the mistake that lead to the reveal. But I suspected something was going on. For a while I really though I was losing my mind. Don't let that happen to you.

Don't take her word that it is only emotional at this point. Cheaters always minimize the facts to fit whatever evidence you have. So, be prepared for more information to come out as you dig. And as you dig, dig quietly and gather as many facts as you can before you confront. Once she knows your source, she will cleanse everything. The more you dig, the smarter they get at hiding their tracks. 

Sorry if that all sounds a bit paranoid, but what's the worst outcome of being overly cautious? She gets irritated? F her, she earned that much.


----------



## Bibi1031

You need to not rug sweep her affair. You need to expose it to family and other person's family if he is married. Exposure helps the affair not go underground and shames the two parties involved to feel the extent of the damage. It helps by stopping the secrecy affairs feed off of.

Is she remorseful? She needs to really carry most of the load it takes to reconcile. If she doesn't, it will not work and she will bail. She may bail anyway. There are no guarantees at this point. She is only one foot in this marriage. Most of her real self is gone by the time disclosure to the wounded party happens.

She has been emotionally detaching from you and the marriage for a while now. That was the only way a third person was able to come into the marriage. You may have your faults, but what human doesn't.

The affair is 100% her fault. She needs to own that and you need to not believe you own any of it. She needed to have sat you down and told you she was feeling empty and didn't feel the love for you that she once had. You don't step outside the marriage if you want to fix it; you communicate the terrible news to your spouse. You step outside the marriage if you want to leave because you have kept the emotional distance from your partner and created a huge crack in the marriage. 

Others will give you much better advice.


----------



## Dude007

Is there any reason why you might want to get out of this marriage yourself? Im not saying to do it, but betrayed spouses sometimes get very favorable settlements if they keep the affair quiet. Get it? Maybe she is not all you thought she was anyway. The hysterical bonding tendencies you are experiencing are natural, but try to think logically for a moment. DUDE


----------



## Marc878

Yep same sad story. Nothing happened. "I really believe her". You are seeing the women for who you thought she was. Now you see who she is/has become.

She's wanting separation to be with her lover. You need to wake up FAST!

They've probably had sex and she wants more. How long has it been since you and her have had sex???? Recover her deleted phone messages. That'll tell the story. If you waffle and beg here you lose.

Full exposure will likely end the affair especially if he's married. If you aren't man enough to do it you get to suffer the consequences. She'll be pissed but this is your life. You don't step up now someone else will be your replacement.

Do not be afraid of making her mad. They are going to destroy your life as you now know it.

The affair is on her 100%. How you handle this is on you.


----------



## Marc878

Alpinglow said:


> Last Wednesday, my wife of 8 years informed me that she wanted to consider separating. I was totally shocked. Knowing something must be up, I checked her text messages and validated that she had been seeing someone else. That night, I confronted her on the affair and she admitted it, but said it had only been three weeks and was totally plutonic. Based on her short timeframe of her recently erratic behavior, I am leaning towards beleveing her.
> 
> As we talked she said that she hadn't been happy in our marriage for a long time, but was just now realizing it. She sited just about every little fight we ever had (very infrequent compared to most of our friends), she sited our lack of intimacy and our recent limited communication due to my business travel etc. All of these issues are valid, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to fix things on my side. I'm just so frustrated that I wasn't given the opportunity to work them out with her as a team before she cut bait and started seeing someone else.
> 
> All of this is so unlike her. She is a rock who everyone else leans on for advice. She also bottles things up and I think this is a lot of regressed emotion coming out all at once. She says she has lost the ability to feel anything, but seems genuinely concerned over my well being and our children's.
> 
> We have two beautiful children who adore their mom and worship me. My son is 4 and my daughter is 2. The thought of informing them that mom or dad might move out is killing me.
> 
> After much discussion, I talked her into counseling, but she still often brings up separation. We have our first session next Thursday, but I fear that she is just going through the motions.
> 
> Here's my problem. I will do anything to save my marriage...anything. And if a trial separation gives her the time she needs to think things through while we go to counseling then I am all for it.
> 
> That being said, if separation just allows her to pursue this 3rd party then I can't support it. in one conversation she mentioned that it was unbelievably selfish of me not to help her finance an apartment for herself and that I was trying to control her. I explained that I could'nt bring myself to finance the potential destruction of my marriage, knowing that she would just be using that freedom to date others.
> 
> We are very amicable, and have talked very calmly about everything. She is very happy with how I am handling this and has praised me for being really nice about it all. I can tell she is hurting and confused, and I want more than anything to help her. But I can't do so when it isn't in my best interest (i.e. Allowing her to move out so she can escalate the with this guy).
> 
> Anybody else been through this? What do I do here?


She likes you being nice about it??? Of course she does. Separation=divorce in this situation. She's hurting because she's caught. You better wise up quick here. Like yesterday. Oh and get an STD test now.

She's blaming you as an excuse for the affair. Cmon!!!!!! This is common Cheaterspeak. You caught her she didn't tell you did she????

Cheaters lie, hide, deny. They prey on weakness and you are falling right into the limbo trap.


----------



## Marc878

You'll get some good advice here. If you're wise you'll see it for what it is. Many have gone through what you are. Pay attention!!!!!


----------



## Kivlor

@Alpinglow

I recommend reading Weightlifter's Standard Evidence Thread after reading the link from anchorwatch. Also, in anchorwatch's link, there is another link to what is called the 180. Follow it. 

Why do you think the Affair hasn't gone physical? 

Whatever you do, don't move out. Don't pay for her to get a place of her own. Cut off her access to money if possible; make it clear if she's going to behave like this, she doesn't get to do it on your dime. **Note** Whatever you do, make sure it is legal. In some areas, cutting your wife off from funds may not be on the up and up. Check your local / state laws.

Expose this to her parents. Expose it to your parents. Tell her closest friends. This isn't about being spiteful, it's about ending her affair.

Have you checked her FB, email and any other electronic means of communication? Are you sure the OM is the only OM?


----------



## NoChoice

First OP, you must face reality by acknowledging that your wife is not the woman you think she is



Alpinglow said:


> Last Wednesday, my wife of 8 years informed me that she wanted to consider separating. I was totally shocked. Knowing something must be up, I checked her text messages and validated that she had been seeing someone else. That night, I confronted her on the affair and she admitted it, but said it had only been three weeks and was totally plutonic. Based on her short timeframe of her recently erratic behavior, *I am leaning towards beleveing her*.
> 
> Your wife has just announced that she no longer has feelings for you and wants to seperate. This is in direct contrast to solemn vows she took to the contrary. Therefore do not set great store in her ability to be honest.
> 
> As we talked she said that she hadn't been happy in our marriage for a long time, but was just now realizing it. *She sited just about every little fight we ever had* (very infrequent compared to most of our friends), she sited our lack of intimacy and our recent limited communication due to my business travel etc. All of these issues are valid, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to fix things on my side. I'm just so frustrated that *I wasn't given the opportunity to work them out with her as a team before she cut bait and started seeing someone else.*
> 
> Rewriting marital history is a common ploy to force blame for her actions onto you and off of her. Also, she is making unilateral decisions regarding the future of the marriage without concern or thought for you or the effect on the children. Selfish?
> 
> *All of this is so unlike her*. She is a rock who everyone else leans on for advice. She also bottles things up and I think this is a lot of regressed emotion coming out all at once. She says she has lost the ability to feel anything, *but seems genuinely concerned over my well being and our children's*.
> 
> Unlike her up till now. It has only been 8 years out of a lifetime commitment does that sound like a rock to you? Regarding her concern for you and the children, who destroys a family if their chief concern is for the spouse and children? This is illogical and for you to believe she is concerned for you and the children is unrealistic. She is concerned about her happiness alone.
> 
> We have two beautiful children who adore their mom and worship me. My son is 4 and my daughter is 2. *The thought of informing them that mom or dad might move out is killing me*.
> 
> But not killing someone who is genuinely concerned for the wellbeing of her children? Again, untruthful.
> 
> After much discussion, I talked her into counseling, but she still often brings up separation. We have our first session next Thursday, *but I fear that she is just going through the motions.*
> 
> On this point you are spot on accurate.
> 
> Here's my problem. *I will do anything to save my marriage...anything*. And if a trial separation gives her the time she needs to think things through while we go to counseling then I am all for it.
> 
> And someone concerned for her family will not? She has such insurmountable issues that she cannot even try? Even in light of your openly expressing your willingness to change and work on things and do whatever you need to? Why would she not be willing to try?
> 
> That being said,* if separation just allows her to pursue this 3rd party then I can't support it*. in one conversation she mentioned that it was unbelievably selfish of me not to help her finance an apartment for herself and that I was trying to control her. I explained that I could'nt bring myself to finance the potential destruction of my marriage, knowing that she would just be using that freedom to date others.
> 
> It has been my experience here that whenever a WS (wayward spouse) asks for separation it, in their mind, nullifies their vows and they feel completely free to "experience" as many people as they so desire. If there is an attempt at R (reconciliation) they invariably state that "we were separated and none of that counts". Additionally, it is selfish of you to withhold finances so that she can be alone and thereby free to pursue a relationship outside the marriage? Is it not selfish to want to destroy a family, move out and see OM? And you have provided a marital home and she is welcome to live there but SHE wants out? She is abhorrently selfish.
> 
> We are very amicable, and have talked very calmly about everything. She is very happy with how I am handling this and has praised me for being really nice about it all. I can tell she is hurting and confused, and I want more than anything to help her. But I can't do so when it isn't in my best interest (i.e. Allowing her to move out so she can escalate the with this guy).
> 
> Anybody else been through this? What do I do here?


So you see, the woman you have in your mind is not the woman you describe here and until you can see her in her true light you will not be able to help her or your marriage.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

*Alpinglow*, sorry that you're here and what you're going through.

Her wanting a trial separation and you to finance her apartment is absolute nonsene. You shouldn't let her guilt you into support of that ludicrous and self-serving idea. Seriously, don't even entertain the thought.

Her affair and infatuation are her top priorities and she will do and say whatever she has to in service of them.

The purpose of her suggesting the separation was so that she could have the space and "permission" to pursue and likely escalate her "platonic" relationship with this other man guilt free, nothing more.


You believe what she has told you about the affair? DON"T. Adulterers lie, minimize and trickle-truth, meaning she'll either outright lie to you or she won't tell you the full extent of her relationship or anything. It's not in her best interest to be honest with you. She is like a teenager with this relationship, and teenagers tend to be single-minded, self-involved and feel no guilt about lying.



Alpinglow said:


> As we talked she said that she hadn't been happy in our marriage for a long time, but was just now realizing it. She sited just about every little fight we ever had (very infrequent compared to most of our friends), she sited our lack of intimacy and our recent limited communication due to my business travel etc. All of these issues are valid, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to fix things on my side.


This is also extremely common with wayward spouses (WS). Here we have *gas-lighting*, *blame-shifting* and the *rewriting* of your *marital history*.

She has rewritten your marital history by bringing up all your fights and saying that she has been unhappy for a long time. This is said to make you and the marriage appear worse than it actually was so that she feels "justified" in her choice to have an affair. She knows her behaviour is wrong so this is her rationalizing it.

She also blame-shifts to you, your business travels and lack of intimacy and communication to remove the blame and responsibilty of her affair off of her and deflect it towards you and these other things.

Make no mistake, her choice to have an affair is entirely on her.

Her calling you controlling, that's gas-lighting. It serves to make you unsure of yourself and question your actions and intentions. Keep in mind that she is only looking out for herself and being selfish. You cannot allow yourself to entertain these accusations. She is saying them for one reason and one reason only, and that is so that she can get what she wants.

You should not say (especially to her) that you will do anything to save your marriage. Do not beg, negotiate or plead with her. Show conviction and be intolerant and unaccepting of her behaviour.

You cannot even begin to hope to work on the marriage if:

- She continues to blame you or other factors
- She's in contact in any way with her affair partner
- And if she hasn't shown any remorse or taken repsonsibilty for her affair

She is under the impression that she can pursue a relationship with another man while married to you and still have you waiting for her when/if she decides she wants to come back to nice, reliable, predictable and understanding you (by the way, none of those are compliments). Let her know that is not the case so that she realizes that she stands a real chance of losing this marriage and that her actions have consequences.


I think that if you do decide that you want to save your marriage then your best chance is to act and be decisive. You will witness a lot of behaviour from her that you would classify as uncharacteristic and erratic. Never mind that. It's also typical with adultery. Adulterers tend to lack originality. You cannot control or effect her behaviour, you can only control how you behave and react to this.

Inform your close friends and family of her affair and behaviour. This is known as exposure, do not hide her actions. Your friends and family might be able to get through to her and also offer you support. If she wants to move out, let her, but she has to do it on her own. Do not support her in any way financially or otherwise. Separate your finances if you can.

Focus on your life and on yourself. If you're not normally active, start exercising and working out. Take up a sport, join a gym, etc.

Spend quality time with your children and also be social. Have a life, spend time and go out with your friends and family. Try to enjoy your life and be fun. Totally disengage from her and communicate with her only when you have to (when it concerns your children, the house, finances, household and legal matters).


----------



## Locke.Stratos

This is known as The 180, use it as a guide for your behaviour and your interactions with her:

*The 180*

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow her around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.


----------



## Chaparral

Are you basing your decision to work on the marriage based on the belief she hasn't had sex with him?

The odds of that being true are slim and none. Everything points to a physical affair.

Explain the lack of intimacy. How long? Why specifically , whose choice? These questions are extremely important.


----------



## happyman64

Alping

Your original post is all over the place so I can understand how hurt you are.

Your wife is playing you.

She is a liar.
She is a cheater.

So treat her like one.

She puts almost all if not all the blame on you. And you are most likely working your ass off.

What does it get you?

An unappreciative wife that is dating another man. Nice way to reward you.

Nice way for a spouse to show she is unhappy with the marriage.

Think about that for a minute.

Who cares if your wife is Florence Nightingale. SHe is no longer that person so stop treating her nicely.

Stop being understanding of her stepping out of the marriage.

And do not fund her new found thirst for a single life.

What you need to do is show her that you are not her Plan "B".


If she wants to move out she pays for the apartment. She moves out.

After all she is the one that is unhappy with the marriage.

What should you do?

Encourage counseling but you cannot force her to go nor force her to participate.

I think you will see in short order your wife wants to leave you.

And that is ok. Now you see the real her and her true intentions.

The 180 is fine for a battered spouse to become independent.

But what you should do is up the ante.

You should file for divorce.

Having her served and notifying her family of her affair does a few things.

A. It shows her you will not be her Plan "B".
B. It shows her that you recognize her as a liar and a cheater.
C. It shows her you will not tolerate her lack of respect towards you or the marriage.
D. It shows your wife that you will not let her move out, continue the affair and screw other men.

But what it really shows her that you and the kids will be just fine without her....

Divorces take months sometimes years to complete. Maybe she will realize she really loves you and she ends the affair and comes out of the fog.

Expose the affair.

Let the OM know you will not just let them have a good time at your or your families expense.

Do not make her bad decisions go without consequences.

You might win or you might lose your marriage.

But if you let her continue to disrespect you and your marriage you will lose.

Expose the affair to her family.

And find out if she is still lieing to you. SHe most likely is.

HM


----------



## the guy

You can't nice your why out of this....stop sharing your wife!

Expose the affair.

And ya go get tested for STD's


----------



## farsidejunky

Alpinglow, you are willing to do anything to save the marriage, right?

Does that include being willing to lose it in order to save it?


----------



## 6301

You know what I would do. I would tell her if she wants to move out then she can take her belongings and go and you'll bring the kids over for visitation. 

I would also find out who this guy is and if he's married or has a girlfriend tell his wife or GF. let the family know about it because I have a real hard time buying a platonic relationship and even if it is it's still cheating and she needs to know that there's a consequences for her actions.

I would let her know that all those arguments she brought up that it take two and 50% responsible for it too and it's unfair to put it all on you and if the marriage dies and everyone finds out that she cheated, it will be her excuse that you were the cause of it.

Let her get her own place and consult a lawyer.


----------



## Chaparral

J st a reminder, when a wife cheats, the odds that the marriage can be saved are less than fifty fifty. If you play nice and needy the chances are slim and none.


----------



## convert

If you want to try and save the marriage and reconcile (R) *EXPOSURE* is your friend.

She only wants the separation to try out the new love interest, I would not separate.


----------



## Alpinglow

Thank you everyone for the poignant and insightful responses. The latest is that the boyfriend apparently freaked out when he saw I was looking at his linked in profile and they had a conversation to end it. She's acting like she doesn't care that much because it was 'never really about him' anyway. She seems more invested in therapy now and has been ver amicable, amazing what happens when plan b bails out 😒

I plan to call the boyfriend on Monday to make sure he is clear that there is to be no more communication with my wife. Hopefully this scares the **** out of him, and I can't wait to do it. He's an attorney , so I have to be careful not to make any threats, just want him to know I'm watching him. I also plan to have dinner with my mother and law tonight while my wife is out with friends (pre planned outing) and let her know where I am at. 

Clearly I need to toughen up and gain some control back in our relationship. That begins today. 

As for some of the questions asked. We are rarely intimate, once every few months. I told myself it was mostly because we were both exhausted, but it's probably bigger than that. My wife is like a guy in the sense that she hates flowers, romance and nostalgia. I always thought this was great, but now realize that I don't know how to show her I care. I'm sure that led to some of this, but it is no excuse for the lying and the affair.

I know you will all say I am being naive, but I still don't think she slept with this guy. Her behavior has only been noticeably different for about a week and I just don't think she would put out that early (she never did with me). 

My game plan now is to go to therapy and let the anger and mistrust about the affair show up there, in a controlled environment. No reason to brawl it out on our own. Any thoughts you all have on how else to move forward would be great.


----------



## Marc878

Sounds like you didn't learn a thing. How'd that work out for you before?

Irregardless I hope everything works out for you.

It's your life too why not make it what you want for a change?


----------



## anchorwatch

Good steps, Alpinglow. Stay out in front out it. You've got a lot to think about and go through yet. For some, it's cut and dry. For others, not as much. Let the MC play out. Keep on top of your health and emotional wellbeing. Make sure to eat and sleep as regularly as you can. 

Here's some more reading where you might find answers in the stories and discussions of other men... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-better-man-better-partner.html

Best to you and your family.


----------



## MJJEAN

Alpinglow said:


> The latest is that the boyfriend apparently freaked out when he saw I was looking at his linked in profile and they had a conversation to end it. She's acting like she doesn't care that much because it was 'never really about him' anyway. She seems more invested in therapy now and has been ver amicable, amazing what happens when plan b bails out 😒


First, unless you can verify that conversation, it never happened. It's much more likely that your wife and her lover have gone underground. Cheaters lie. Trust me, I was one. 

Second, if the OM actually did end things, Plan B didn't bail. Plan A bailed. She's now stuck with Plan B, which is you.


----------



## happyman64

You do not have to threaten an attorney.

Just let him know if he interferes in your marriage you will file a complaint with the local bar association.

There are numerous ways to make his life more difficult.

And your wayward wife is right about one thing. The OM is not the problem.

She is.

And if she has been so unhappy all these years then why did she have young children with you.......

Your wife is full of crap my friend.

Show her consequences. Show her what her life will be like without you in it.

HM


----------



## Alpinglow

Ok, all good points. How do I know if she and this guy went underground? How do I validate how far their relationship went/has gone?


----------



## anchorwatch

You verify. Here's how... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html#post9756666 

You expose to his wife too. That will keep him busy with his wife and not yours. 

This was all in the newbie link. Go back and read it.


----------



## Alpinglow

Read the newbie link, thanks. Unfortunately the guy is not married.


----------



## anchorwatch

If you're going the counseling route. You might want to see what a real marriage looks like and how things go wrong. Then compare what happened in yours. Then decide on a plan forward.

You might just see yourselves...

His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage

Surviving an Affair 

A Summary of Basic Concepts


----------



## Alpinglow

Few updates and a question: when I kicked this thread off, my wife and I were on vacation in Florida with our kids. One of the most difficult weeks of my life. As I mentioned by he end of the vacation she said that the guy she was seeing freaked out when he saw I was looking at his LinkedIn profile. Supposedly that was the end of it.

First night back was last night and she went out again, shifting plans last minute from some she had set for a long time and went out it some their friends. Then I get a text that her phone was dying and I wouldn't be able to contact her. She knows I have her on Find my Friends. 

Every reason to believe the affair is still very much in full swing, just underground now as many of you suggested.

Now on to the question: her mother came over last night and we basically had a come to jesus at my place after we put he kids to bed. Seems like she is totally seeing this thing from my point of view. She mentioned that she thought my wife was suffering from depression. It runs in her family and we both noted that the total despondantness and lack of emotion over this thing is bizarre. She has gone through some tough physical changes recently due to being diagnosed with fructose Malabsorption, which could have kicked off depression.

Questions is, does anyone have any experience with clinical depression causing marital problems like these? If so, how do I get the marriage counselor to assess this and prescribe meds if this is he case?


----------



## Marc878

Alpinglow said:


> Few updates and a question: when I kicked this thread off, my wife and I were on vacation in Florida with our kids. One of the most difficult weeks of my life. As I mentioned by he end of the vacation she said that the guy she was seeing freaked out when he saw I was looking at his LinkedIn profile. Supposedly that was the end of it.
> 
> First night back was last night and she went out again, shifting plans last minute from some she had set for a long time and went out it some their friends. Then I get a text that her phone was dying and I wouldn't be able to contact her. She knows I have her on Find my Friends.
> 
> Every reason to believe the affair is still very much in full swing, just underground now as many of you suggested.
> 
> Now on to the question: her mother came over last night and we basically had a come to jesus at my place after we put he kids to bed. Seems like she is totally seeing this thing from my point of view. She mentioned that she thought my wife was suffering from depression. It runs in her family and we both noted that the total despondantness and lack of emotion over this thing is bizarre. She has gone through some tough physical changes recently due to being diagnosed with fructose Malabsorption, which could have kicked off depression.
> 
> Questions is, does anyone have any experience with clinical depression causing marital problems like these? If so, how do I get the marriage counselor to assess this and prescribe meds if this is he case?


She was in contact with him while you were on vacation since she knew he freaked out about you looking at his linked in.

Her phone died so you couldn't contact her. How convenient. You know where she was. Cheaters lie, hide, deceive and deny.

Do you realize what you are up against now?

Better get a plan together. Gather up what you have as evidence - phone records, messages, etc.

Full exposure to try and end the affair. For him and her. 

See an attourney so you know what your options are.

If you are weak and waffle here you lose. You'd better get control of your life. You can't fix her but you can fix yourself. Continue to ignore, make excuses and believe the lies at your own peril. No one is coming to your rescue. You have to step up and do it.

You have to deal with this from a position of strength. She is way ahead of you. 

Sorry man


----------



## farsidejunky

Damn, dude. 

Why, why, WHY are you even entertaining this? 

Does it matter that depression caused her to treat you like garbage? Stop trying to fix her and start trying to fix yourself.

It is high time to file.

And, nice job on exposure. Keep it up.


----------



## happyman64

What you do is put the Var in her car.

Verify who she talks to.
Who she discusses the affair with.
Her attitude about your marriage and discovery of the affair.

You will soon know if she continues contact with the OM.

When you do take appropriate action.

See an attorney. Come up with a plan.

She may be depressed but having an affair and lying/cheating on her husband is not the cure.

HM


----------



## Marc878

It seems you're to busy making excuses for her behavior to accept what this really is. A full blown sexual affair. 

Not sure why you're here???? 

This is nothing you or anyone else has done. She's into this 100% of her own accord. She's a selfish person who's doing what she wants. Do you not get that?

You have to put time and effort into the planning she's doing to meet up for sex with OM.

She's clearly in control of what she's doing and even throwing a bone to you with counseling etc.
Can you not see this or is it you don't want to see it???? 

It seems like you're wanting to live in denial of what's really going on here. Her mom will indeed protect her daughter under any circumstances and provide as many excuses as needed to cover up her true actions. While you just wait for what happens next? 

Good luck with that


----------



## anchorwatch

She's going out with om on Saturday night and you're home babysitting? 

Starting to feel used yet? 

Even in the face of emotional or mental instability you need to keep solid personal boundaries... 

Depression is not a reason for loose morals and disrespect of your marriage and spouse.

I suspect she's cake eating. That is she's using the time for MC to allow her more time to see the OM.


----------



## Alpinglow

Alright, I'm coming to grips. I guess everyone thinks their situation is different, but sadly they are all pretty much the same. Just takes some doing to get my mind to where you guys are. 

I do have one question though. What's the point of the voice recording, GPS and all the other cloak and dagger stuff? She's already admitted to having an affair, and it really doesn't make much difference if she is or isn't now. Why go to all the hassle of acting like a spy to collect evidence for a crime you already know has been committed? None of the stuff would be admissible in court, so I'm guessing it just to be able to feel 100% confident exposing the affair?


----------



## Marc878

If you're going to expose it correctly some of their messages, etc would be helpful as it's just your word. She needs to know you and everyone else sees through her lies and deceit. 

If you properly expose him/her it probably will stop the affair and maybe shock her and him back to reality. It will get their attention. She'll be PO'd but you can't be afraid at a time like this. Get bold and strong you'll get yor respect back.

There is an article on it in this forum. Read up on it. 

Congrats to coming to terms. They are screwing with your life. Fight for it. Get some of your respect back. You did nothing to deserve this. No one does.


----------



## Marc878

See an attourney. Find out where you stand with divorce. See if adultery is recognized in your state. Get the power back. Get your finances in order. I'd separate bank accounts now. 

Let her know you mean business. If you are going to save this marriage you will have to be prepared to end it. 

You could file on her immediately. Doesn't mean you can't stop it later if you work it out. 

She's smart. She sucked you into counciling and had no intentions of stopping the affair. 

She banking on you being weak and inneffictive. Preying on what she knows about you.

Let her see the other side for a change. Be careful what you tell her mother. Blood is thicker than water. Maybe use her to get your point across 

Good luck!!!!!!!


----------



## Marc878

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-post.html?highlight=Standard+evidence+forum

She told you it was plutonic right. I'd bet that was a lie. If she's that hot to see him (going out the first night you're back from vacation) they've probably had lots of sex.

You may as well know the full extent of what's going on. She's not gonna tell you. She only admitted to an emotional affair after you had evidence. She didn't come out and tell you anything.

Cheaters lie, hide, deny and deceive.


----------



## Marc878

There are some questions you have to ask yourself in this.

Do you even want her back now if it went physical?

Can you live with this long term?

If you can't you are correct there is no reason to put any time or effort into saving the marriage.

Just line up and file. Hard choices for you but unfortunately it is reality.

You can waste years on something like this. It takes two to make a marriage work but only one to destroy it.


----------



## happyman64

Your WW thinks she is smarter than you. She does not respect you.

Use the var to know exactly what is going in her mind.

Expose the affair. Get 5 steps ahead of her. Expose the OM.

Make the affair as uncomfortable as you can for them.

Let them see how selfish and childish they are acting.

Then start the process of detaching from her infidelity.

HM


----------



## Marc878

You're only gonna get one shot on exposure. Make it count. Read up on it.

OM is an attourney probably with a work phone. If you have some good text messages involving him. It might be good for the owners/partners of his firm to get a look at what he's up too.

How good are you with phones/pc's? Downloading deleted texts etc?

Don't rush this but plan it carefully for maximum exposure. Then once you have the plan together do it all at once. They are planning on you doing nothing and will be vulnerable. Plus he was concerned about you're viewing his linked in

I hope this works out for you.


----------



## Marc878

One other thing. You spoke about separation. Under no circumstances do you leave the home or your bedroom. Put that burden on her. Let her walk out on the kids/family. NOT YOU!!! She's a typical cake eater.

If she's stopped having sex with you it's because she feels like she would be cheating on her affair man. Sick huh?


----------



## welchjeannie72

I have been married for 15 years and there have been so many times here lately where I don't want to be with him anymore. I feel at times I am only useful to him when he wants to have sex. Sex has become something that is a chore. I still love him but I am not in love with him.


----------



## Marc878

welchjeannie72 said:


> I have been married for 15 years and there have been so many times here lately where I don't want to be with him anymore. I feel at times I am only useful to him when he wants to have sex. Sex has become something that is a chore. I still love him but I am not in love with him.


I think you posted on the wrong thread?????


----------



## azteca1986

Alpinglow said:


> Why go to all the hassle of acting like a spy to collect evidence for a crime you already know has been committed?


It's so that when OM, or someone else that's enabling the affair, suggests "If Alpinglow, isn't going to help you move out, why not call the police and say you felt threatened?", you will know ahead of time. You will also carry a VAR when you interact with her. A recording might not be admissible in court, but will be of interest to the police officers who come to escort you off the premises. False domestic violence charges? It happens. We don't want it to happen to you:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...filed-divorce-after-2-weeks-separation-2.html


> - restraining order on community property
> 
> - restraining order for harassment. Says she fears for her safety and that of children. I cannot be within 100 yards of her, her house, her employment and cannot contact her. Asks for permanent injunction in due course
> 
> - all attorney fees paid from community property
> 
> - asks the court to order me a mental evaluation for anger management issues.


From the above thread. The first time he knew about his "anger issues" was when he read the above in the divorce petition. Wife demanded a separation. OM was discovered later. The WW we later found out suffered from depression. 

If you're thinking that the mother of your children having an affair is the worst that can happen, think again. Please protect yourself and your children. Your WW is your adversary till her actions prove otherwise.

Sorry you're here mate.


----------



## anchorwatch

welchjeannie72 said:


> I have been married for 15 years and there have been so many times here lately where I don't want to be with him anymore. I feel at times I am only useful to him when he wants to have sex. Sex has become something that is a chore. I still love him but I am not in love with him.


 @welchjeannie72, Are you Alpinglow's wife?


----------



## Alpinglow

So I obtained today a text message that has caring words between my WW and the OM. Despite saying it was over, it was only a thinly veiled attempt to take it underground. They are planning to get together tonight, apparently while I watch the kids. I am looking into GPS trackers and contacting a PI for pictures, etc. As you all suggested, my eyes are open and my mouth is shut. I will not elude to her that I know, but it is killing me.

That being said, we start counseling tomorrow. My plan was to call the counselor up front to let him know that there is an active affair so that I don't have to press her on it in the session. On one hand, I don't want to tip her off that I know, as I'd like to continue to collect evidence, but on the other I want to try to get her to open up in counseling. Goal here is still to save my marriage if at all possible. Thoughts?

Also, once I collect my evidence, how do I best expose this OM? He is an attorney, but a relatively junior one in his firm. Attorneys I have reached out have advised me against trying to 'expose him', but I am leaning towards doing it anyway based upon what you guys are saying, and the feeling that he just can't be that invested in this relationship at this point. Little help here would be appreciated.


----------



## ButtPunch

Is the OM married? That's where you start.

If you want any chance of saving this, you expose both of them.


----------



## ButtPunch

Some states still factor infidelity in divorce. You need to find out if your state is one of them.


----------



## Alpinglow

Not married, unfortauntley...



MY STATE allows "fault-based" divorces, which means the spouse seeking the divorce must allege and prove that the other spouse's misconduct caused the divorce. Adultery is one of the fault-based legal grounds (reasons) for a divorce. As opposed to states that only have “no-fault” divorces, MY STATE courts will grant a divorce based on a spouse having an affair.

Looks like MY STATE does recognize adultery, but word on the street is that they aren't very aggressive about it as it is so common here.


----------



## Marc878

Alpinglow said:


> So I obtained today a text message that has caring words between my WW and the OM. Despite saying it was over, it was only a thinly veiled attempt to take it underground. They are planning to get together tonight, apparently while I watch the kids. I am looking into GPS trackers and contacting a PI for pictures, etc. As you all suggested, my eyes are open and my mouth is shut. I will not elude to her that I know, but it is killing me.
> 
> That being said, we start counseling tomorrow. My plan was to call the counselor up front to let him know that there is an active affair so that I don't have to press her on it in the session. On one hand, I don't want to tip her off that I know, as I'd like to continue to collect evidence, but on the other I want to try to get her to open up in counseling. Goal here is still to save my marriage if at all possible. Thoughts?
> 
> Also, once I collect my evidence, how do I best expose this OM? He is an attorney, but a relatively junior one in his firm. Attorneys I have reached out have advised me against trying to 'expose him', but I am leaning towards doing it anyway based upon what you guys are saying, and the feeling that he just can't be that invested in this relationship at this point. Little help here would be appreciated.


I would sit tight and collect data or you'll just drive it further underground. Attourneys stick together that's why they don't want you to expose. Bullsh!t!!!!!! You have nothing to lose in exposure here. Maybe she'll gain some respect for you. If he's junior in the firm they will probably get tie of him. Does adultery count in your state? Save all the evidence in a secure place.


----------



## ButtPunch

Alpinglow said:


> Not married, unfortauntley...
> 
> 
> 
> MY STATE allows "fault-based" divorces, which means the spouse seeking the divorce must allege and prove that the other spouse's misconduct caused the divorce. Adultery is one of the fault-based legal grounds (reasons) for a divorce. As opposed to states that only have “no-fault” divorces, MY STATE courts will grant a divorce based on a spouse having an affair.
> 
> Looks like MY STATE does recognize adultery, but word on the street is that they aren't very aggressive about it as it is so common here.


Will it benefit you financially? Some states do not allow alimony to cheaters. That's what you need to find out before hiring PI's and such.


----------



## Marc878

Another way is to ask her point blank if she's serious about counseling. Maybe tell her if she goes out tonight be ready for divorce proceedings. 

You are in a hard situation and you know more about your situation at this time than we do so it has to be yor call.

Sorry man. This is a bad one. If you sit back get a PI on them. 


Hope it works out for you


----------



## Marc878

No matter what full exposure from you. You'll at least have put up a fight. I do it all at one time with evidence. Friends, family, work


----------



## Marc878

One other thing. You're going to counseling tonight and she has a date with him after???

Maybe bring your text and after she has her say ask why are we in counseling when she's scheduled a date with him right after???

Tell her she needs to pick and if she goes with OM tonight you'll file for divorce tomorrow. But be prepared to back up your actions. You can always back off later if it works out.

If I didn't expose tonight I would show up where they were after the PI gets his evidence. Let her and him know you aren't afraid. Arrange a babysitter but keep it quiet. You have a lot of options here. I'm not sure I would just let them meet. She got way ahead of you. Now catch up somehow. If she does see him tonight I would ban her from the bedroom.

You're going to have to get tough. Doing nothing up front put you in a bad place.

Obviously she feels like she can do what she wants with no interference. Show her how wrong she was and that you are a real man.

I don't think you have anything to lose.

They are screwing with you, your life and your family.


----------



## Marc878

Exposure for other man. I'd mail a package to each attourney in the office with evidence, if he's using his work phone even better. Find an attourney that will request all his emails and phone info to your wife from his firm. Most won't want to but it'll wreak havoc. You may be able to sue for alienation of affection if that's valid in your state. When and if the time comes that is


----------



## Alpinglow

ButtPunch said:


> Is the OM married? That's where you start.
> 
> If you want any chance of saving this, you expose both of them.





ButtPunch said:


> Some states still factor infidelity in divorce. You need to find out if your state is one of them.





Marc878 said:


> One other thing. You're going to counseling tonight and she has a date with him after???
> 
> Maybe bring your text and after she has her say ask why are we in counseling when she's scheduled a date with him right after???
> 
> Tell her she needs to pick and if she goes with OM tonight you'll file for divorce tomorrow. But be prepared to back up your actions. You can always back off later if it works out.
> 
> If I didn't expose tonight I would show up where they were after the PI gets his evidence. Let her and him know you aren't afraid. Arrange a babysitter but keep it quiet. You have a lot of options here. I'm not sure I would just let them meet. She got way ahead of you. Now catch up somehow. If she does see him tonight I would ban her from the bedroom.
> 
> You're going to have to get tough. Doing nothing up front put you in a bad place.
> 
> Obviously she feels like she can do what she wants with no interference. Show her how wrong she was and that you are a real man.
> 
> I don't think you have anything to lose.
> 
> They are screwing with you, your life and your family.



No, they are planning a potential get together tonight and we go to counseling tomorrow night. No way to get a PI engaged or anything this late in the game to catch them tonight, I kind of just need to let this one go I think....as much as it kills me. If I confront her about it I lose the ability to more gain evidence. I also want to see if I can get her to open up in counseling tomorrow night. If not, its on. Full surveillance, active engagement with an attorney and an aim at a maximum impact exposure. I'm a long way from a pushover bro, but this will destroy my life as much as it will hers. Gotta do this carefully to try to get it right, and at the very least...minimize residual damage.


----------



## ButtPunch

You pretty certain this affair has already gone physical?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878

Maybe have some one you know that they don't go by and snap a few????? 

I feel for you here. Sounds like you are wide awake now. Glad to say

A very painful experience you are going through.

It'll probably get worse before it gets better. 

I do hope you are in time to save this.

How are you holding up?


----------



## anchorwatch

So it's your intention to sit home and be a babysitter for your children while you W is out on a date. Then you'll use your MC to scold her. That's the best you can come up with? And you wonder why she and the OM aren't concerned about lying to you. 

Look we can give you the tools but we can't give you the courage to be someone to be reckoned with. 

Call the prck and warn him off. 

Just don't go home and let her get stuck with the kids. 

Give her the third degree over where she's going and tell her you don't believe it so you're not comming home. 

Show up at the meeting place with kids in tow to let him see what she's really about. 

Get creative, do something... Anything. 

Gezz!


----------



## Marc878

anchorwatch said:


> So it's your intention to sit home and be a babysitter for your children while you W is out on a date. Then you'll use your MC to scold her. That's the best you can come up with? And you wonder why she and the OM aren't concerned about lying to you.
> 
> Look we can give you the tools but we can't give you the courage to be someone to be reckoned with.
> 
> Call the prck and warn him off.
> 
> Just don't go home and let her get stuck with the kids.
> 
> Give her the third degree over where she's going and tell her you don't believe it so you're not comming home.
> 
> Show up at the meeting place with kids in tow to let him see what she's really about.
> 
> Get creative, do something... Anything.
> 
> Gezz!


I think i have to agree with Anchorwatch here. I'd call him up or maybe show up and see if the Chickensh!t runs. I bet if you show all you'll see is his azz running. Maybe stop this before it goes any further if you can. Set up a baby sitter. And give em a surprise. She's still your wife


----------



## Heatherknows

Marc878 said:


> I think i have to agree with Anchorwatch here. I'd call him up or maybe show up and see if the Chickensh!t runs. I bet if you show all you'll see is his azz running. Maybe stop this before it goes any further if you can. Set up a baby sitter. And give em a surprise. She's still your wife


But don't bring the kids. They don't need to see their parents acting out of control.


----------



## tech-novelist

I agree that he should play dumb until he has whatever evidence he needs.
I wouldn't need any more evidence in his place, but we still don't know if adultery is enough to prevent alimony in his state.


----------



## Alpinglow

Marc878 said:


> I think i have to agree with Anchorwatch here. I'd call him up or maybe show up and see if the Chickensh!t runs. I bet if you show all you'll see is his azz running. Maybe stop this before it goes any further if you can. Set up a baby sitter. And give em a surprise. She's still your wife


She just texted me that she had a major come to Jesus while playing with our daughter today. Said she made 'major changes' and that she is sending the kids off to her mothers so we can talk tonight. Will be the first time we've talked in weeks if true. Cautiously optimistic...but at least I don't have to deal with confronting the two of them tonight with little evidence. 

And to be clear, I am no puss y. The time and place will come for a confrontation if this proves to be some sick smokescreen. But following YOUR advice, I want to have enough evidence to bury her in court. An unprepared encounter with these two clowns could blow my chances at a successful exposure. Not going to let emotion get the better of me. 'Eye's open mouth shut'...for now


----------



## tech-novelist

You can't believe anything she says. Get the evidence you need and meanwhile don't let on you are suspicious.


----------



## Lostinthought61

and please record the whole thing just in case


----------



## karole

She's probably talked with an attorney and found out that she could be found at fault for the divorce. She's doing nothing but playing nice til she can get her ducks in a row. Keep your phone on record or stop and get a VAR on the way home to keep in your pocket in case she admits to the affair. Good luck - stay strong!!


----------



## Marc878

I Hope this is favorable to you. I would stop on the way and get a VAR. if she does come clean I would want the full truth. If you rugsweep this it will not work out longterm. Let's hope she isn't wanting to just leave and divorce. I suspect she's seen a noticeable change in your attitude. 

I would tell her if she does come clean that you need time to think about the future. Do not be to ready to jump in an forgive until you are ready.

Wishing you good luck

Pulling for you tonight


----------



## Marc878

Full transparency on phone, etc, timeline of events, she answers all your questions.

Agreed full no contact and send a no contact letter to him and copy her mother. I'd keep a copy too

She can't do these bare minimums she's probably playing for time. Important you get a recording just in case.


----------



## Marc878

OM could be a player so she needs an STD test or you don't go near her. Don't take that chance


----------



## Marc878

You have gotten strong and knowledgable.

Stay there. She put you in this spot. It was no mistake but knowingly done 100% by her. This is not in Any way your fault 

Do not take any crap for her affair 

That's all on her


----------



## Kivlor

anchorwatch said:


> Call the prck and warn him off.
> 
> Just don't go home and let her get stuck with the kids.
> 
> Give her the third degree over where she's going and tell her you don't believe it so you're not comming home.
> 
> Show up at the meeting place with kids in tow to let him see what she's really about.
> 
> Get creative, do something... Anything.
> 
> Gezz!


Anchorwatch is giving some good advice. I don't think I'd confront this guy right now though. He's an attorney, and it's not worth the hassle yet. IF she does go to meet him tonight, you could certainly grab a video recorder, the kids, follow her and blow this up that way. It'd give you the physical evidence you need, and send a damn hard message to your wife.



Alpinglow said:


> She just texted me that she had a major come to Jesus while playing with our daughter today. Said she made 'major changes' and that she is sending the kids off to her mothers so we can talk tonight. Will be the first time we've talked in weeks if true. Cautiously optimistic...but at least I don't have to deal with confronting the two of them tonight with little evidence.
> 
> And to be clear, I am no puss y. The time and place will come for a confrontation if this proves to be some sick smokescreen. But following YOUR advice, I want to have enough evidence to bury her in court. An unprepared encounter with these two clowns could blow my chances at a successful exposure. Not going to let emotion get the better of me. 'Eye's open mouth shut'...for now



Sounds like your doing this right. Be careful, and for fvck sake, don't have sex with your wife. In some jurisdictions that can be considered forgiveness for the affair, and even worse, you don't want to risk getting any disease she may get from OM. Let us know how tonight goes.


----------



## 2asdf2

Alpinglow said:


> No, they are planning a potential get together tonight and we go to counseling tomorrow night. No way to get a PI engaged or anything this late in the game to catch them tonight, I kind of just need to let this one go I think....as much as it kills me. If I confront her about it I lose the ability to more gain evidence. I also want to see if I can get her to open up in counseling tomorrow night. If not, its on. Full surveillance, active engagement with an attorney and an aim at a maximum impact exposure. I'm a long way from a pushover bro, *but this will destroy my life *as much as it will hers. Gotta do this carefully to try to get it right, and at the very least...minimize residual damage.


Your life -as you know it- is destroyed already.

We are now talking about preparing for a satisfactory next life.

Sorry you are in this spot. But give nothing away, no promises and no commitments.

Not until you have time to think.


----------



## happyman64

Alpinglow

While I too agree you should confront both of them with the kids in hand being cool, calm and steady will win the day.

Go meet with your wife today.

Maybe "Jesus" did give her some direction and she wants to be open and honest with you.

You cannot control her but you can certainly control your actions.

And I cannot stand most attorneys. Finish him off. Do it without any threats.

File a complaint with the bar association and make sure his bosses find out.

What a shame his fellow lawyers will not assist you but I am not surprised.

HM


----------



## Marc878

happyman64 said:


> Alpinglow
> 
> While I too agree you should confront both of them with the kids in hand being cool, calm and steady will win the day.
> 
> Go meet with your wife today.
> 
> Maybe Jesus did give her some direction and she wants to be open and honest with her.
> 
> You cannot control her but you can certainly control your actions.
> 
> And I cannot stand most attorneys. Finish him off. Do it without any threats.
> 
> 
> File a complaint with the bar association and make sure his bosses find out.
> 
> What a shame his fellow lawyers will not assist you but I am not surprised.
> 
> HM



Yep, no matter what i would not let up on him. your wife will do anything to protect him even if she stays but these types of actions need to have consequences.

dont have regrets long term of not dealing with a dirty lawyer.


----------



## anchorwatch

Alpinglow,

I pray that you had a good talk last night and found a resolution that will allow you to move forward with your life, with or without her.


----------



## Alpinglow

So we had a very frank discussion last night. No kids screaming, just her and I. She admitted to everything, including trying to see the OM yesterday (apparently to close out the relationship face to face) although they couldn't make the logistics work to actually meet up. She said she texted him and told him that it was over and that he acknowledged and agreed. She also admitted that she lied to me by going out with him last Saturday night. I didn't record any of this, but I'm not sure I needed to. 

My response was tough. I told her that her behavior was unacceptable, regardless of how bad she thought our marriage was. She agreed. I told her that I couldn't believe her because of the lies and pain she has already brought on our marriage. She understood. I told her that if I sensed that she was lying about this and continued to see him it would be the end of us....no exceptions. She acknowledged. Lastly, I said that if it continued I would not only divorce her but I would destroy him. When she asked what I meant, I said I would contact his boss, his colleagues, his clients and his parents, family & friends to let them know that he was an adulterer who destroyed my marriage. That pissed her off, and she went off on the usual...blame it on me not on him, to which I said "I do". She asked me to leave him out of it and I said I would, assuming there was no further contact with him. 

I also made it sound like I had a PI following her and bluffed that I had much more evidence than I do. That scared her I think. 

On the plus side, she said she ended it because she didn't want to lie in therapy tonight. She wanted to work on our marriage and knew she couldn't do that if she was committed elsewhere. She did admit that she still has feelings for him, but was adamant that she had only known him for a few weeks and no sex was involved. Which again, at least seems consistent with her timeline of erratic behavior. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Marc878

I personally would destroy him anyway for the amount of pain he caused you. She as I predicted cares more for his welfare than you and what they put you through doesn't matter. 

Odd, you said if anything more happened. Why would she be upset if it's ended????

No consequences for her or him. You get to suck it up and be happy she's stayed???

Seems like no remorse at all. Did she even say she was sorry?????

Almost like I'm gonna give YOU one more chance ??????? If it doesn't work.......

Make sure you get all the evidence you can at this point. Store them in a safe place. I'd get her phone and download all the deleted messages. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think this is over.

Did she even explain how all his happened, how far it did get, etc.

I'm not sure you have resolution here.

Worries me a bit. Rugs weeping now means you'll get to go through this again.

Years ago I let a guy off the hook. Big mistake for me and I regret it to this day.

Your thoughts?????


----------



## Alpinglow

Yes she said she was sorry and has said that many times for what its worth over the last few weeks. She said she met him at a bar, as a friend of a friend and they hit it off. She clearly is concerned about his welfare, and admitted that they had a 'connection' but that she is not in love as it is only been a few weeks. 

I agree that I need to be very suspect of this, but I did sense some real remorse last night for the first time. And, I had the ability to lay down some consequences if it continues. 

I was thinking of maybe sending him a simple email saying "I understand that your relationship with my wife is now over, please confirm that this is the case. Assuming yes, I would suggest that you have no further contact with her in any way. If you choose to ignore this warning, I am prepared to take controlled measures to make this unethical relationship public in your place of work and amongst your family members"

Thoughts?


----------



## convert

Alpinglow said:


> So we had a very frank discussion last night. No kids screaming, just her and I. She admitted to everything, including trying to see the OM yesterday (apparently to close out the relationship face to face) although they couldn't make the logistics work to actually meet up. She said she texted him and told him that it was over and that he acknowledged and agreed. She also admitted that she lied to me by going out with him last Saturday night. I didn't record any of this, but I'm not sure I needed to.
> 
> My response was tough. I told her that her behavior was unacceptable, regardless of how bad she thought our marriage was. She agreed. I told her that I couldn't believe her because of the lies and pain she has already brought on our marriage. She understood. I told her that if I sensed that she was lying about this and continued to see him it would be the end of us....no exceptions. She acknowledged. Lastly, I said that if it continued I would not only divorce her but I would destroy him. When she asked what I meant, I said I would contact his boss, his colleagues, his clients and his parents, family & friends to let them know that he was an adulterer who destroyed my marriage. That pissed her off, and she went off on the usual...blame it on me not on him, to which I said "I do". She asked me to leave him out of it and I said I would, assuming there was no further contact with him.
> 
> I also made it sound like I had a PI following her and bluffed that I had much more evidence than I do. That scared her I think.
> 
> On the plus side, she said she ended it because she didn't want to lie in therapy tonight. She wanted to work on our marriage and knew she couldn't do that if she was committed elsewhere. She did admit that she still has feelings for him, but was adamant that she had only known him for a few weeks and no sex was involved. Which again, at least seems consistent with her timeline of erratic behavior.
> 
> Thoughts?


sounds pretty good.
be sure to keep what evidence you do have in a safe place, you may want to continue to keep a very watchful eye on things.
EXPOSURE is key. Sometimes even just the threat of exposure.

If it comes down to exposing him I would not worry about being sued especially if you had factual - hard evidence.
if you do expose stick with the facts


----------



## ButtPunch

You blow this out of the water. You tell her folks and your folks . Expose Expose Expose.
She wants you to rugsweep. YOu out that POSOM. She's protecting him. That's not remorse.


----------



## ButtPunch

Alpinglow said:


> Yes she said she was sorry and has said that many times for what its worth over the last few weeks. She said she met him at a bar, as a friend of a friend and they hit it off. She clearly is concerned about his welfare, and admitted that they had a 'connection' but that she is not in love as it is only been a few weeks.
> 
> I agree that I need to be very suspect of this, but I did sense some real remorse last night for the first time. And, I had the ability to lay down some consequences if it continues.
> 
> I was thinking of maybe sending him a simple email saying "I understand that your relationship with my wife is now over, please confirm that this is the case. Assuming yes, I would suggest that you have no further contact with her in any way. If you choose to ignore this warning, I am prepared to take controlled measures to make this unethical relationship public in your place of work and amongst your family members"
> 
> Thoughts?


No she writes him a letter of NC.


----------



## 2asdf2

I think you messed up big time. Sorry about that!

Gave up easily.

You have no evidence that she has no intentions of returning to OM.

Revealing your plans to "destroy" the OM was a mistake. Her becoming defensive of him and upset at you is not a sign of remorse.

Now you need to go stealth and survey for all you are worth. No telling what her next move might be. Very likely she's not done with him.

Unless you set up parameters that you have not disclosed.

I hope you have.


----------



## 2asdf2

Anything you say to him is face to face with a recorder going.

You send that message and he will -lawyerly- interpret it as a threat.

Think!


----------



## Marc878

Did you see the text ending it??? The reason I'm skeptical is Lots to Learns wife had him go to counseling one day with her and the next day caught her having sex with him the next day in his own bed.

Better be vigilant 

I would bust him now. But if you can't I'd at least and him an email and copy your wife, lay out exactly what your plans are for him if anything remotely happens again. I would say I will enjoy nuking your world/life.


----------



## Marc878

I don't think you are as tough as you think you are. Better put some thought into this.

It's your life here. It's a time to be strong. Actions speak louder than words and it seems she's in charge here.

Read back over your posts. No contact to him spelling out what they had, times dates and you get a copy!!!!!!

You'll only get this chance. Full transparency phone everything from now on


----------



## tom67

ButtPunch said:


> You blow this out of the water. You tell her folks and your folks . Expose Expose Expose.
> She wants you to rugsweep. YOu out that POSOM. She's protecting him. That's not remorse.


This^^^
Don't tell her blow up his world.
He deserves it do it today!


----------



## Nucking Futs

Alpinglow said:


> Yes she said she was sorry and has said that many times for what its worth over the last few weeks. She said she met him at a bar, as a friend of a friend and they hit it off. She clearly is concerned about his welfare, and admitted that they had a 'connection' but that she is not in love as it is only been a few weeks.
> 
> I agree that I need to be very suspect of this, but I did sense some real remorse last night for the first time. And, I had the ability to lay down some consequences if it continues.
> 
> I was thinking of maybe sending him a simple email saying "I understand that your relationship with my wife is now over, please confirm that this is the case. Assuming yes, I would suggest that you have no further contact with her in any way. If you choose to ignore this warning, I am prepared to take controlled measures to make this unethical relationship public in your place of work and amongst your family members"
> 
> Thoughts?


Do not do this. Do not warn him ahead of time, it will only give him an opportunity to spread the word about how crazy you are. 

If you're going to launch an attack on him, and I think you should, make it a surprise attack.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Marc878 said:


> Did you see the text ending it??? The reason I'm skeptical is Lots to Learns wife had him go to counseling one day with her and the next day caught her having sex with him the next day in his own bed.
> 
> Better be vigilant
> 
> I would bust him now. But if you can't *I'd at least and him an email and copy your wife, lay out exactly what your plans are for him if anything remotely happens again. I would say I will enjoy nuking your world/life.*


Do not do this. No warnings, just nuke him. You can learn a lot from your wifes reaction to you nuking him.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> Do not do this. No warnings, just nuke him. You can learn a lot from your wifes reaction to you nuking him.


Subconsciously she will respect you for doing this because you became the "alpha" by not putting up with any bs.
She may act mad but will want to jump your bones.
But that is a topic down the road.


----------



## convert

tom67 said:


> Subconsciously she will respect you for doing this because you became the "alpha" by not putting up with any bs.
> She may act mad but will want to jump your bones.
> But that is a topic down the road.


yep, had this exact affect on my ww


----------



## Marc878

She does not comprehend the pain and suffering she put you through. Both physical and mental. Men are supposed to be tough and just take it. Sit her down an tell her in detail what you went through.

Give her some reality of what she did and then have her tell her and your family 
What's been going on


----------



## Marc878

Counseling tonight.

These counsellors are not gods. Some are downright morons.

I'm sure you have some issues you need to fix. We all do. But so does she.

This affair is 100% on her. It was done knowingly, willingly with lies and deceit. It was no mistake! She needs to own that.

Do not in any way take the blame for that!!!!!!

I would also be truthfull in what I felt going through this. I'd let it all hang out. If you are not allowed any say I'd get up and leave. 

I would also expect her to do the heavy lifting on this. If she doesn't you have your answer long term on how this will play out.


----------



## Marc878

Your life is what you make it. Accept responsibility for your issues but if you let your wife or anyone else take control of this. YOU LOSE!

Do not rugsweep this. It's time to fix it or make other plans. Wasting time is something you can never get back.

Best of luck. I hope it works out


----------



## Alpinglow

convert said:


> sounds pretty good.
> be sure to keep what evidence you do have in a safe place, you may want to continue to keep a very watchful eye on things.
> EXPOSURE is key. Sometimes even just the threat of exposure.
> 
> If it comes down to exposing him I would not worry about being sued especially if you had factual - hard evidence.
> if you do expose stick with the facts


Absolutely, I have all the evidence in a safe place and would never give up my source so I can monitor moving forward.


----------



## Alpinglow

ButtPunch said:


> No she writes him a letter of NC.


hoping to get the MC to suggest this


----------



## Marc878

Alpinglow said:


> hoping to get the MC to suggest this


Why???? You should require it.

Did you see the message to him ending it?

At this time you can not trust anything she tells you.

Do you not get that?


----------



## anchorwatch

A promising development, Alpinglow. 

It's still not the time to turn your head away. Eyes open. Kepp your methods of verification in play. Lots to be done yet. Let's hope your MC is up to it. 

I do believe a NC letter is in order. Along the lines of the WS has made a mistake, hurt their partner and family, is going to repair their M and wants no contact ever. You can find them around this site or in the site I linked you. It can also help in obtaining legal protection orders if he does try to continue contact. 

In the end, he should not be the main focus of your energy. He did not make vows to you. Your W did. Focus on her, yourself and the relationship. 

I don't believe in shaming, as it does no good in fostering a relationship. Your W knows what she did and you'll know if that's truthful or not in time. Limited exposure to those close enough to help each of you and in recovery of the M isn't shaming. 

I can only recommend the marriage recovery plans I previously linked to you. There you can find the knowledge and methods to fix your M and decide for yourself how to proceed from there. 

Here they are again. Make a plan forward. Good luck.



anchorwatch said:


> If you're going the counseling route. You might want to see what a real marriage looks like and how things go wrong. Then compare what happened in yours. Then decide on a plan forward.
> 
> You might just see yourselves...
> 
> His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage
> 
> Surviving an Affair
> 
> A Summary of Basic Concepts


----------



## Marc878

You would be wise not to be afraid of your wife at this time.

I suspect It would earn her respect if you calmly took control of the situation.

She met him as a friend of a friend. You/she need some boundaries around going out. That's how things like this get started. But that is for later. You need to deal with the here and now.

I hope this ends well for you but a big part of that is up to how you handle it. I sure wouldn't want to go through this again.


----------



## 2asdf2

My WW was very appreciative of my kindness and understanding when I saw her on somebody's lap with his hands all over her breasts.

She proceeded to have 6+ "indiscretions" over the next twenty years.


----------



## sh987

Alpinglow said:


> Lastly, I said that if it continued I would not only divorce her but I would destroy him. When she asked what I meant, I said I would contact his boss, his colleagues, his clients and his parents, family & friends to let them know that he was an adulterer who destroyed my marriage. That pissed her off, and she went off on the usual...blame it on me not on him, to which I said "I do". She asked me to leave him out of it and I said I would, assuming there was no further contact with him.


That she was calm and quiet and accepted your upset, right up until you threatened him should be worrying for you. She shouldn't be protecting him instead of you.



> On the plus side, she said she ended it because she didn't want to lie in therapy tonight. She wanted to work on our marriage and knew she couldn't do that if she was committed elsewhere. She did admit that she still has feelings for him, but was adamant that she had only known him for a few weeks and no sex was involved. Which again, at least seems consistent with her timeline of erratic behavior.
> 
> Thoughts?


You know when a cheater is lying?




When they open their mouth.


---

Some of what she's saying sounds good, but I would be VERY wary if I were you.


----------



## Kivlor

@Alpinglow

I would certainly out the OM, in every conceivable way. If at all possible, destroy him. I think it is critical you do this. I would wait, however, until you have had your wife write a NC letter, and you get to see it go in the mail / out via text.

Do not speak of exposing to the WW again. When you do expose, expose her to her parents, her siblings, you parents, your siblings. Let them all know. 

When she gets upset, explain why it had to be done. Own it, don't say you learned it on a website. I'd start working on a list of boundaries, because you need to set some for her. Might be a good thing for a MC session.


----------



## Chaparral

There is about a fifty fifty chance the counselor will be in your wife's corner. Be ready to walk if this goes anywhere but dealing with the cheating. Why she cheated can wait if she starts trying to blame you.

Girls and boys nights out are for single people. Does her friend know she was cheating? If so anyone that knew is history.

What do you know about the attorney? Married, kids, etc.?


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, inform your wife that STD tests are now in order. Also, tell her you're considering paternity tests. The point is to show her, her trust bank is below empty and to protect yourself.


----------



## Chaparral

How long has intimacy been a problem and why?

Its more than amazing that this has been only going on for three weeks and she wanted to move out.

None of this makes sense, typical of the cheater's script. You will know you're getting the truth when everything falls into place.


----------



## wilson

Chaparral said:


> How long has intimacy been a problem and why?
> 
> Its more than amazing that this has been only going on for three weeks and she wanted to move out.


Not necessarily. I can see how someone who is sad, depressed, and feeling like they are locked in a unsatisfying relationship would suddenly want to move on when they realized they could be happy. Not that happiness would necessarily come from this POS, but that happiness was possible. When you're sad and depressed, you feel like happiness is never an option. Then when it does happen, you grab onto it. I get the sense that's what happened here.

Alpinglow, I think you may be going at this a little heavy handed. Yes, she is absolutely, 100% wrong to have done what she did. But step back and consider what she was feeling like before this all started. Maybe she felt like a loser who was not deserving of happiness. Yes, you can pressure, guilt and manipulate her into staying, but is that the right thing to do? Do you love her enough that her happiness is important? Or do you want to control her and not let her go? 

Think for a while about what would make her feel happy and loved. Will staying with you provide that? It didn't happen before. What will be different in the future?

I think you do have be firm that an affair means it's over between you two. But for true recovery you also have to let her know that you love her enough to make sure her happiness is a priority. If she couldn't find happiness with you, do you love her enough to willfully let her go? Think about how you can make her want to stay because she feels loved rather than being afraid to leave because of the consequences.


----------



## turnera

I suggest meeting the OM in person, in public (no records/proof) since he's a lawyer, and just state 'I know what you've done and I'm giving you an opportunity to stay the hell away from my wife. Between friends. Ok, bro?'

And you're not being heavy-handed, not at this stage. As soon as you've covered your bases and she understands ONE contact and you're seeing a lawyer...THEN you take a step back and approach her with questions about what she's unhappy about and you move forward with MC. But the OM simply HAS to be addressed first.


----------



## Marc878

wilson said:


> Not necessarily. I can see how someone who is sad, depressed, and feeling like they are locked in a unsatisfying relationship would suddenly want to move on when they realized they could be happy. Not that happiness would necessarily come from this POS, but that happiness was possible. When you're sad and depressed, you feel like happiness is never an option. Then when it does happen, you grab onto it. I get the sense that's what happened here.
> 
> Alpinglow, I think you may be going at this a little heavy handed. Yes, she is absolutely, 100% wrong to have done what she did. But step back and consider what she was feeling like before this all started. Maybe she felt like a loser who was not deserving of happiness. Yes, you can pressure, guilt and manipulate her into staying, but is that the right thing to do? Do you love her enough that her happiness is important? Or do you want to control her and not let her go?
> 
> Think for a while about what would make her feel happy and loved. Will staying with you provide that? It didn't happen before. What will be different in the future?
> 
> I think you do have be firm that an affair means it's over between you two. But for true recovery you also have to let her know that you love her enough to make sure her happiness is a priority. If she couldn't find happiness with you, do you love her enough to willfully let her go? Think about how you can make her want to stay because she feels loved rather than being afraid to leave because of the consequences.


You are supposed to talk things through in a marriage. Not up and jump into someone else's arm and want to separate in 3 weeks????

Cmon! Pretty shocking wouldn't you say? What about his recovery? He's at home with two small kids and the wife is out at a bar with another man. 

They haven't talked in weeks. She runs to him the first night they come home from vacation after she plans counseling sessions. Since when is someone that depressed able to plan so well?????


----------



## Marc878

turnera said:


> I suggest meeting the OM in person, in public (no records/proof) since he's a lawyer, and just state 'I know what you've done and I'm giving you an opportunity to stay the hell away from my wife. Between friends. Ok, bro?'
> 
> And you're not being heavy-handed, not at this stage. As soon as you've covered your bases and she understands ONE contact and you're seeing a lawyer...THEN you take a step back and approach her with questions about what she's unhappy about and you move forward with MC. But the OM simply HAS to be addressed first.


This is easier than you think.

I had a guy calling, emailing my wife from his work. I put together all the documents sent them to him and said if I even think I heard your name again all this goes to you HR office along with a letter from my attorney. Can you spell UNEMPLOYMENT? Never another peep.

Now, I would have just copied them to all the department heads at his work. I'm just not as patient as I used to be.

Believe me exposure works like a charm. You have to remember one thing. This is screwing with his life and family.


----------



## Chaparral

wilson said:


> Not necessarily. I can see how someone who is sad, depressed, and feeling like they are locked in a unsatisfying relationship would suddenly want to move on when they realized they could be happy. Not that happiness would necessarily come from this POS, but that happiness was possible. When you're sad and depressed, you feel like happiness is never an option. Then when it does happen, you grab onto it. I get the sense that's what happened here.
> 
> Alpinglow, I think you may be going at this a little heavy handed. Yes, she is absolutely, 100% wrong to have done what she did. But step back and consider what she was feeling like before this all started. Maybe she felt like a loser who was not deserving of happiness. Yes, you can pressure, guilt and manipulate her into staying, but is that the right thing to do? Do you love her enough that her happiness is important? Or do you want to control her and not let her go?
> 
> Think for a while about what would make her feel happy and loved. Will staying with you provide that? It didn't happen before. What will be different in the future?
> 
> I think you do have be firm that an affair means it's over between you two. But for true recovery you also have to let her know that you love her enough to make sure her happiness is a priority. If she couldn't find happiness with you, do you love her enough to willfully let her go? Think about how you can make her want to stay because she feels loved rather than being afraid to leave because of the consequences.


She only "figured" out she had been unhappy for years after she started picking another man. This is simply another cheater rewriting the marital history to absolve herself from the the guilt of being a lying cheater. This lie crops up in 90% percent of the cheaters story here. Its a way to blame the person being cheated on.

The best response is to expose the two cheaters, watch them scurry like roaches and file for divorce or at least start negotiating a divorce settlement. Nothing kills the affair fantasy like reality.


----------



## Marc878

You doing OK??????

Hope it went well


----------



## Marc878

"First night back was last night and she went out again, shifting plans last minute from some she had set for a long time and went out it some their friends. Then I get a text that her phone was dying and I wouldn't be able to contact her. She knows I have her on Find my Friends."

[probably turned into a physical affair here if not before.]

"So I obtained today a text message that has caring words between my WW and the OM."

"Lastly, I said that if it continued I would not only divorce her but I would destroy him. When she asked what I meant, I said I would contact his boss, his colleagues, his clients and his parents, family & friends to let them know that he was an adulterer who destroyed my marriage. That pissed her off, and she went off on the usual...blame it on me not on him, to which I said "I do". She asked me to leave him out of it and I said I would, assuming there was no further contact with him."


[Why would she be upset unless they were planning to continue?????]


I suspect from your posts this is a physical affair. She's continuing to lie.
Know and see what you're up against if the counseling is a ploy to buy themselves time to solidify their plans. They think they are smarter than you.

Your biggest advantage here is damage to his reputation. (Make no mistake if exposure done properly with evidence especially if he's used a work phone could be huge. It's his biggest asset) You may need this to gain terms if it comes to divorce. He's single and will not want her kids. Maybe use ( the exposure card) as leverage for no alimony and custody of the kids.

I do hope I'm wrong but you need to be prepared in case. Your future is at stake. I would get as much evidence as possible (PI included) as adultery matters in your state. this will be your biggest weapon if it comes to divorce settlement.


----------



## delta88

Marc878 said:


> First night back was last night and she went out again, shifting plans last minute from some she had set for a long time and went out it some their friends. Then I get a text that her phone was dying and I wouldn't be able to contact her. She knows I have her on Find my Friends.
> 
> [probably turned into a physical affair here if not before.]
> 
> So I obtained today a text message that has caring words between my WW and the OM.
> 
> Lastly, I said that if it continued I would not only divorce her but I would destroy him. When she asked what I meant, I said I would contact his boss, his colleagues, his clients and his parents, family & friends to let them know that he was an adulterer who destroyed my marriage. That pissed her off, and she went off on the usual...blame it on me not on him, to which I said "I do". She asked me to leave him out of it and I said I would, assuming there was no further contact with him.
> 
> [Why would she be upset unless they were planning to continue?????]


You could destroy him, or you could let her destroy herself by her own nature. Her pattern will repeat so the guy picking up on the signal she's putting out is not to blame. Can you muster up the strength to fight off 3 billion men?


----------



## Marc878

delta88 said:


> You could destroy him, or you could let her destroy herself by her own nature. Her pattern will repeat so the guy picking up on the signal she's putting out is not to blame. Can you muster up the strength to fight off 3 billion men?


You're missing the point here. If it comes to a divorce (the threat of exposure) may gain him leverage in a settlement. At that time it's all about finances. 

You are correct if this is who she is its a wasted effort trying to fix her. You get out as financially secure as you can.


----------



## Marc878

Alpinglow,

I suspect you may still be in a bit of shock. You do need to take some time once the emotions die down and ask yourself a very important question.

From her last meeting with the Other man it went to a physical affair if it hadn't already. No single guy is gonna meet up with a woman and she turns off her cell just to talk or watch tv together.

Can you live with this long term in your marriage if you attempt reconciliation? For some this is a dealbreaker.

If you can I hope it works out. If not don't waste time and life on something that can never be.


----------



## Alpinglow

Sorry for being offline....been trying to figure out what is happening. In short, things have been better, but only on the surface. I have every reason to believe that she has called things off with the other man. No more nights out, I have full access to and watch her text messages closely. I have seen messages going back and forth to her friends about how she called it off with the other guy. She also knows that I am done if there is any more interaction with him, so at this point I'm just monitoring her behavior to see what happens. 

The challenge now is that she really can't show me any affection. She is seeing a therapist on her own and we have been to a couple of marriage counselors who completely sucked. Trying a new one out next week, who I hope is good. Her counselor is telling her that her emotional detachment to me is a psychological defense mechanism that subconsciously happens when she feels she needs to protect herself. Again, this all started when I snapped at her on our boat one day. According to her that was the straw that broke the camel's back. The problem, is that from her text messages to her friends I can see that the counselor is making her lean more towards divorce than anything else. No idea how to try to get back in there if she won't let me in. Thoughts?


----------



## farsidejunky

Accommodate her and the counselor.

Nothing fuels want quite like not being able to actually have.

Besides, it sounds like she still blaming you for her choice to cheat.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Marc878

That's why you have to watch therapists. Some are morons. Maybe she should ditch hers. Divorce is the easy way out.

Have you taken her out on dates just you and her??? Set one up, nothing fancy just get out and enjoy a movie and dinner once a week.

Are you talking with each other? If not start. 

Once they start seeing someone else they detach so as not to cheat on the other man. 

Does she know you can monitor her? If so it may have gone underground. Better be vigilant.


----------



## Alpinglow

Marc878 said:


> That's why you have to watch therapists. Some are morons. Maybe she should ditch hers. Divorce is the easy way out.
> 
> Have you taken her out on dates just you and her??? Set one up, nothing fancy just get out and enjoy a movie and dinner once a week.
> 
> Are you talking with each other? If not start.
> 
> Once they start seeing someone else they detach so as not to cheat on the other man.
> 
> Does she know you can monitor her? If so it may have gone underground. Better be vigilant.


Well, she loves the therapist so its going to be hard to pull her away now. We have been out on a bunch of date and things go great. She seems to hate talking about our future or anything like that...just wants to keep it sort of pedestrian. But, when we do things just like normal...laughing, joking, etc. She still says she loves me and admits that we have a great friendship...she just can't feel anything for me apparently. 

Obviously I have stil concerns about the affair still going on, but not sure what I can do other than hire a PI. I know you guys are going to push it, but I'm not interested in bugging her car, etc. Besides, if she is still seeing him, I'll eventually find out one way or another and that'll be it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Alpinglow said:


> Well, she loves the therapist so its going to be hard to pull her away now. We have been out on a bunch of date and things go great. She seems to hate talking about our future or anything like that...just wants to keep it sort of pedestrian. But, when we do things just like normal...laughing, joking, etc. She still says she loves me and admits that we have a great friendship...she just can't feel anything for me apparently.
> 
> Obviously I have stil concerns about the affair still going on, but not sure what I can do other than hire a PI. I know you guys are going to push it, but *I'm not interested in bugging her car*, etc. Besides, if she is still seeing him, I'll eventually find out one way or another and that'll be it.


----------



## turnera

I don't think she's still cheating. I think she's depressed and at 'that stage' in life where she realizes she won't accomplish all she ever planned and 'is that all there is' and having to acknowledge that she has to make a choice - stay here and work (hard) or leave alpine and have an also-hard life as a single mother. 

Basically, it's freaking depressing to realize you only get ONE life and it may not turn out as good as you think it will. IIWY, I would be addressing exactly WHAT she is feeling and thinking. I'm going to guess that, with your career, her thoughts and dreams and feelings often took a back stage to yours; am I right? And that, once she became a mother, she faded even MORE into the woodwork, to the point that she wonders if she even matters anymore. Have that kind of talk with her; see what she says.

As for her not being ready to commit, please understand that women put up with a lot, for a long period, before they 'give up.' Go look at all the "Walkaway Wives" books in the self-help section. It's epidemic for women to put everyone else first for years and years and then finally reach a point where they ask what about me? So she's been having this unhappiness for a while. You've had next to no affection or sex or comfort or closeness for years now. She has emotionally pulled away for her own safety. You're no longer the guy she married to protect her; she's the one she has to protect herself FROM.

That doesn't mean she doesn't love you; just that it will take her a LONG time to trust you again and let down her guard. She put up with a lot for a long time; you now need to be willing to put up with a lot for a long time, until she feels you're safe again.

Of course, all this is predicated on her NOT cheating. And yes, you have to continue to monitor for that as you work on the marriage.

Now, to that end, have you read His Needs Her Needs yet? Go get it, today, and start reading it out loud with each other. Discuss it. Answer each other's questions. Fill out the questionnaires - the Emotional Needs one and also the Love Busters one, that goes with that book I told you to read on your other thread.

This stuff is vital information you two need to be absorbing, if you want to save the marriage.

And what have you done to find a new way to deal with your stress, away from chewing her out?


----------



## Alpinglow

turnera said:


> I don't think she's still cheating. I think she's depressed and at 'that stage' in life where she realizes she won't accomplish all she ever planned and 'is that all there is' and having to acknowledge that she has to make a choice - stay here and work (hard) or leave alpine and have an also-hard life as a single mother.
> 
> Basically, it's freaking depressing to realize you only get ONE life and it may not turn out as good as you think it will. IIWY, I would be addressing exactly WHAT she is feeling and thinking. I'm going to guess that, with your career, her thoughts and dreams and feelings often took a back stage to yours; am I right? And that, once she became a mother, she faded even MORE into the woodwork, to the point that she wonders if she even matters anymore. Have that kind of talk with her; see what she says.
> 
> As for her not being ready to commit, please understand that women put up with a lot, for a long period, before they 'give up.' Go look at all the "Walkaway Wives" books in the self-help section. It's epidemic for women to put everyone else first for years and years and then finally reach a point where they ask what about me? So she's been having this unhappiness for a while. You've had next to no affection or sex or comfort or closeness for years now. She has emotionally pulled away for her own safety. You're no longer the guy she married to protect her; she's the one she has to protect herself FROM.
> 
> That doesn't mean she doesn't love you; just that it will take her a LONG time to trust you again and let down her guard. She put up with a lot for a long time; you now need to be willing to put up with a lot for a long time, until she feels you're safe again.
> 
> Of course, all this is predicated on her NOT cheating. And yes, you have to continue to monitor for that as you work on the marriage.
> 
> Now, to that end, have you read His Needs Her Needs yet? Go get it, today, and start reading it out loud with each other. Discuss it. Answer each other's questions. Fill out the questionnaires - the Emotional Needs one and also the Love Busters one, that goes with that book I told you to read on your other thread.
> 
> This stuff is vital information you two need to be absorbing, if you want to save the marriage.
> 
> And what have you done to find a new way to deal with your stress, away from chewing her out?


Good stuff, thanks! I will get the His Needs / Her Needs book. I've been working on my stress a lot. Started playing Men's league Lacrosse, Mountain Biking and signed up for a Marathon in April which I have been training for. Physical exertion seems to help. She does a lot of physical fitness too so the time away is ok I think. I also downloaded the Love Busters book and will start reading tonight. Sounds like I need to strap in for the long haul here...


----------



## turnera

You sound sincere, and this isn't the worst story I've seen here by a longshot. You two will probably be fine.

Two other key components for fixing this:
Find a way to spend 10 to 15 hours together away from the kids, chores, electronics. When you first start dating, you have these PEA chemicals flowing through your body which makes you 'feel in love.' It's how humans kept the species going long ago. But they only stay in your body for 2 to 5 years. Then you're on your own. So you have to literally 'date' your spouse as long as you're married, or you will frankly just fall out of love. So to reconnect with her FIND a way to get those hours in. Things as small as having coffee together in the morning, or keeping a jigsaw puzzle going and sitting at it for a few minutes each day, to taking a walk or planting some flowers...just find ways to FOCUS on each other.

The other thing is to set up a regular 'state of the marriage' meeting. Once a week, every two weeks, once a month...whatever works for you two. A fifteen-minute meeting, where you both vow to keep it safe, not get all bent out of shape when the other tells you if you've done something to upset them. To hear it with an open mind, looking for ways to improve yourself FOR the other person. It goes hand in hand with the questionnaires. The meeting is just a quick regular recap so you know that you'll have an opportunity to discuss issues, and so you can keep it out of your day to day lives. It makes the day to day less stressful, knowing you'll have a chance to discuss stuff. Thus, the marriage goes along more smoothly.


----------



## Alpinglow

turnera said:


> You sound sincere, and this isn't the worst story I've seen here by a longshot. You two will probably be fine.
> 
> Two other key components for fixing this:
> Find a way to spend 10 to 15 hours together away from the kids, chores, electronics. When you first start dating, you have these PEA chemicals flowing through your body which makes you 'feel in love.' It's how humans kept the species going long ago. But they only stay in your body for 2 to 5 years. Then you're on your own. So you have to literally 'date' your spouse as long as you're married, or you will frankly just fall out of love. So to reconnect with her FIND a way to get those hours in. Things as small as having coffee together in the morning, or keeping a jigsaw puzzle going and sitting at it for a few minutes each day, to taking a walk or planting some flowers...just find ways to FOCUS on each other.
> 
> The other thing is to set up a regular 'state of the marriage' meeting. Once a week, every two weeks, once a month...whatever works for you two. A fifteen-minute meeting, where you both vow to keep it safe, not get all bent out of shape when the other tells you if you've done something to upset them. To hear it with an open mind, looking for ways to improve yourself FOR the other person. It goes hand in hand with the questionnaires. The meeting is just a quick regular recap so you know that you'll have an opportunity to discuss issues, and so you can keep it out of your day to day lives. It makes the day to day less stressful, knowing you'll have a chance to discuss stuff. Thus, the marriage goes along more smoothly.


Good stuff, thanks. I'm hoping this new marriage counselor echo's much of this and we get this stuff going. I've tried suggesting many of these things, but coming from me it didn't get much traction. :frown2: Either way, I know this is what we need to do so I will find a way to get us there.


----------



## turnera

When I was going to IC, I made it clear to her just how involved I was in online forums, and proceeded to explain to her all the things I'd learned from them, things I knew were logical and productive; she was well aware I intended to follow those things, so it didn't make sense for her to ask me to do things that contradicted what I had learned. Plus, she couldn't really argue with any of it, either. If she tries to sway you from what you're learning on her, call her out on it. She IS working for YOU, after all. Tell her to give you a logical reason why what we are suggesting is wrong. Make her persuade you. Some ICs just get in a rut of telling people the same things to do over and over; some don't keep learning. I actually suggested a couple books (Getting The Love You Want and Emotional Alchemy) to my IC and she later told me they were good choices.


----------



## Marc878

IC and MC's are not gods. If something doesn't seem right it's you who are paying them so question it. There are many horror stories around therapists, etc. if you can find a good one great.


----------



## Alpinglow

All good points. We've been through two marriage therapists already. One spent more time talking about himself that we did and the other may or may not have fallen asleep during our session. I guess the good ones are so booked they cant take on new clients so the front desk people just give you the dregs. This new one seems good and was recommended by my wife's therapist, so we'll see. Either way, I like the idea of steering them using the stuff I've learned on these forums.


----------

