# She went on a date to a Drive In movie



## FreedomRider

New here and asking for help.
I (64yo)was returning from a 2 week trip across the country to see relatives when my wife (42yo) of almost 18 years called me all excited because she was asked to go to a Drive In to see the movie Magic Mike by a supposed friend of hers. I had no prior knowlege of this guy or any friendship she might have had with him. He works at a store in town that she goes to occasionaly. 
My wife had never gone to a Drive In before, I had asked her to go several times over the years but she always turned me down..."that is where teenagers go to do inappropriate things" is why she would not go.
I told her I did not approve of her going with some stranger to a Drive In and that I did not want her to go. She said that he was a friend and it was ok. He told her the drive In was closing and since she "had never gone before she had to go with him". That is what she told me. I told her it was totally unaccecptable to go there with him and that if she did that our marrage will be over. She argued that there ws nothing going on but said she would not go. I did not hear from her until 2 days later when I returned home and she admitted she thought about what I said and deceided to go anyway. I asked her "even though you knew my feelings about it?" and she said yes, that I should not talk to her like that and I was wrong for telling her what to do. I of course (being totally devistated by this) told her that we are thru that she has destroyed our marriage. She says she did nothing wrong, she says there was no sex or anything. The marriage is over because of what I said, she will not be married if I don't trust her. I did tell her I trust her but not some stranger.
Well it has been over a week now and according to her it is my fault sshe is totally blameless. I have talked to her twice explaining how/why I feel a married woman going to a Drive in movie with a virtual stranger is wrong. She says she is not wrong and won't be married to someone that does not trust her.
I have asked her a couple times if she "wants" to save our marriage and her answer is "I don't think it can be saved". I love her her and want to find a way to fix this. I feel horribly betrayed and everyone I have told about this thinks the drive in date was totally wrong. 
What can I do?


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## costa200

Dude, she totally ignored you, pissed on your wishes and concerns and is now using that as an excuse to break up. Honestly, why are you having doubts?

It's seems to me that this "friend" got a leg over you in every way. You were on a trip, and:



> "had never gone before she had to go with him"


She just had to share a special moment with him? A guy you never heard about? WTF man... It's pretty darn obvious and in your face. 

Oh, and the movie choice... Magic Mike... Really nice. There is hardly a better movie to get a woman wanting some... 

You my friend, are getting played!


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## Torrivien

There's nothing you can do.
If she's caught up in the selfish perception that you're overreacting, you can't do anything except wait.

Eighteen years is a long time and I can understand why you need her to come back so bad. But maybe you better wait and let her come to the realization on her own. I only hope that she will come to her senses before doing anything aggravating.

Is this the first time that she had this attitude ?


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## FreedomRider

I am waiting, I have no proof that anything sexually happened. I do feel that I am being "played". It really bothered me that she thought it over after agreeing not to go and went anyway. I told her if he really is a friend then she should not have gone and explained the relationship to me when I got back so I could be comfortable with their friendship, she said I would have been mad so she went anyway. I will wait for the other shoe to fall so to speak, but I have started making plans to protect myself.


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## jameskimp

You should have been like, it's not that you don't trust her, it's you don't trust him. Who knows what a stranger can do?

Seems like an overreaction on both your parts.


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## TDSC60

You laid out the boundaries as clear as possible. "If you go on a Drive-In date with this guy the marriage is over". It was your wife going on a date with another man that you don't even know.

She pissed on your boundary and is blaming everything on you.

Something else is going on. She set you up to be the bad guy knowing what your reaction would be.

She wants out of the marriage but does not want to be the one to pull the plug. She wants you to be painted with the selfish, controlling brush. 

Since you told her if she went on the date then the marriage is over, you have to at least start preparing divorce papers. Otherwise, you are seen as the doormat husband who is all talk and no action. If you do nothing, she will keep pushing the boundaries until there is a full blown PA (might already be one).


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## FreedomRider

I know I over reacted! It was my wife telling me she betrayed me after thinking about it. I told her since then that I was temperarily insane because of what she did.


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## TDSC60

FreedomRider said:


> I know I over reacted! It was my wife telling me she betrayed me after thinking about it. I told her since then that I was temperarily insane because of what she did.


I don't think you over reacted. I would have done basically the same thing if my wife told me she had been asked to go on a date and wanted to go. Hell no! Married women DO NOT go on dates with other men. At least if they want to stay married to me.

Your wife betrayal was three fold. 

One, that she was so excited to go on a date with OM. This shows little respect for your marriage. Dating OM meant more to her than your marriage.

Two, that she went after telling you that she would not. This shows zero respect for you and your feelings. OM meant more to her than you.

Three, that she had developed a deep friendship with this guy that you did not even know about.

I don't see how you can accept this treatment and stay married since she has no remorse for what she did and no empathy for how it made you feel.


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## CanadianGuy

What I'm wondering is why she couldn't have waited the 2 days for you to return and go with you?


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## Torrivien

I don't think that you're overreacting. Until she stops blaming you for a deceit, you can't be forced to remain with her.
Feelings can be a b**** sometimes, otherwise you wouldn't care if she'd go on a date or on ten.

I'm not a fan of you putting up and apologizing. On the short term, it has some shallow benefits, but the subject will be brought up sometime in the future.

You can't force someone to understand the way you feel, but you owe it to yourself to be more demanding. She's your wife, you have the right to feel unsafe from men otherwise she'd only be your roommate.

One thing though, I don't know if you are the jealous type, but I don't understand why would she tell you about her date. Come to think of it, it was for the better so you can discover how your wife perceives thing. But I couldn't be comfortable if my wife considers going to a drive in to watch a sexually driven movie with some guy she met a normal thing.


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## Thor

You need to do some investigating. Look at cell records, texting, emails, FaceBook, etc. Put a VAR in her car, keylog the computer. There are many red flags of her being in at least an EA with this guy and so you need to get accurate data. Perhaps she is having a mid life crisis and there is no affair of any kind. It would be good to know that. But if there is an affair you need to know that, too.


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## Will_Kane

Who is the other man? How old, married, kids, occupation, etc.?

What is her relationship with him? How long? Do they talk on the phone, text, email, facebook message, etc.? Do they see each other socially, e.g., go out for coffee, etc.? Can you look at these accounts for any contact?

Is your wife willing to answer questions about her relationship with him, like the ones above?

You never heard of him before she phoned you about the drive-in?

Based on what you posted so far, it sounds like a person she says hello to and makes small talk with while shopping in the store he works in, the subject of drive-ins came up, he asked, she said yes, and they had never had other communications before. Like a first date.


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## Will_Kane

CanadianGuy said:


> What I'm wondering is why she couldn't have waited the 2 days for you to return and go with you?


Was it the drive-in she was interested in or this guy?


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## Will_Kane

Does she have girlfriends?


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## FreedomRider

The midlife crisis thing does come to mind.
My wife and I both have friends of the opposite sex that we go out socially with, neither of us has permission to cheat. Not on dates to intimate places though and not with strangers as this guy is to me.
Her computer, IPad and phone all have passwords on them, I willl try to gain info if I can get in. 
The drive in was supposed to be closing down that weekend. So it was her only chance to go.....I bet there are other drive ins around...duh


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## NaturalHeart

Who is this guy?


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## Acabado

Take a look at the phone bill. Check the numbers, the frequency, the dates, the hours.


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## FreedomRider

Will_Kane said:


> Who is the other man? How old, married, kids, occupation, etc.?
> info from her: about her age, not married don't know if he has a girl friend or if he is gay, owns a music store
> I found out he is 44
> 
> What is her relationship with him? How long? Do they talk on the phone, text, email, facebook message, etc.? Do they see each other socially, e.g., go out for coffee, etc.? Can you look at these accounts for any contact?
> She says she has known him for years from shopping at his store but has only become friends in the last 4 months or so. They are Facebook friends....she posted about what a nice guy he is on the day he asked her out (the day before the date), she has admitted to talking to him since...says he is her friend. I don't know about email or texts. She says she has never gone anywhere else with him.
> 
> Is your wife willing to answer questions about her relationship with him, like the ones above?
> She answered questions but not too willingly.
> You never heard of him before she phoned you about the drive-in?
> Nope not a word.
> 
> Based on what you posted so far, it sounds like a person she says hello to and makes small talk with while shopping in the store he works in, the subject of drive-ins came up, he asked, she said yes, and they had never had other communications before. Like a first date.


She says they have been friends for about 4 months. Denys going anywhere or meeting him anywhere.


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## The Middleman

FreedomRider said:


> The midlife crisis thing does come to mind.
> My wife and I both have friends of the opposite sex that we go out socially with, neither of us has permission to cheat. Not on dates to intimate places though and not with strangers as this guy is to me.
> Her computer, IPad and phone all have passwords on them, I willl try to gain info if I can get in.
> The drive in was supposed to be closing down that weekend. So it was her only chance to go.....I bet there are other drive ins around...duh


The way I see it, you did nothing wrong. Now where you take this is up to you, but I wouldn't back peddle.


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## FreedomRider

shaylady said:


> Who is this guy?


I answered as best I can in other posts. Please ask specifics if you want.


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## costa200

The fact that something really happened or not may be a point that is of major importance for you. But the fact that you told her that this date (because that's what it was) was not acceptable, she agreed to not going and then she went anyway just shows what she feels about you and your feelings. She just doesn't care about you. 

I do not believe a 40+ year old woman doesn't see that it's inappropriate to do what she did. She knows it. The thing is that being in a car watching a sort of porn for women with this guy was just so attractive and appealing that she just let herself go. 

There is a lot more than a simple friendship going on. When she was never interested in drive ins suddenly she is into it because one is closing? I would say that what she was into was this other guy. 

She now expects to turn you into the bad guy for destroying your marriage per jealousy. But if you get your story out only people with mental issues will think she is in the right.


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## The Middleman

:iagree:

I really agree with Costa here. She went on a date. The fact that she told you about it is irrelevant. I far as i'm concerned, you had ever right to say no. She's the bad guy here, not you.


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## Badblood

Dude, you should have thought about the consequences,before you laid down your ultimatum. So now you've bluffed, and she has called you on it, either you knuckle under and lose respect, or you keep to the letter of your threat and divorce her. Losing an 18 year marriage for a visit to a drive-in seems to me , a little hasty, but you called the piper on this one.


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## TDSC60

Badblood said:


> Dude, you should have thought about the consequences,before you laid down your ultimatum. So now you've bluffed, and she has called you on it, either you knuckle under and lose respect, or you keep to the letter of your threat and divorce her. Losing an 18 year marriage for a visit to a drive-in seems to me , a little hasty, but you called the piper on this one.


I agree.

Since you said it would be the end if she went, you have to at least follow through with preparing divorce papers. Otherwise, you confirm that she can do ANYTHING she wants without fear of you taking action.


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## Will_Kane

Don't start a divorce over this, regardless of whatever ultimatum you made in the heat of the moment over the phone.

You would be foolish to divorce over what has happened so far. She has been a faithful spouse for 18 years and you have zero evidence.

She didn't even have to tell you this guy asked her out, or admit to going out with him later; you would have been none the wiser. It is possible that she believes they are just friends and is mis-interpreting romantic overtures as friendship. 

If nothing has been suspicious before this, I would assume that this is in an early phase. This guy is feeling her out, trying to woo her, she is showing an interest or is just naive. Likes the attention. You've been married 18 years, trust your gut if it tells you something is wrong, but don't divorce just yet. If it tells you mid-life crisis, go with that.

Apologize for overreacting, tell her you trust her, then take steps to monitor her. Don't let her know you are still suspicious.

Buy a voice-activated recorder and put it under the seat of her car with heavy duty velcro. Put a GPS on the car. Keylog the computer. Give it a week and see what you come up with.

If it is the beginning phase, then you can try to nip it in the bud. If it is an affair, then you can decide what you want to do.


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## Will_Kane

Acabado said:


> Take a look at the phone bill. Check the numbers, the frequency, the dates, the hours.


Get access to and monitor what accounts/devices you can, but don't let her know. If she is involved with this guy, you will find something.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

jameskimp said:


> You should have been like, it's not that you don't trust her, it's you don't trust him. Who knows what a stranger can do?
> 
> Seems like an overreaction on both your parts.


I disagree. She's the one overreacting.


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## survivorwife

FreedomRider said:


> I know I over reacted! It was my wife telling me she betrayed me after thinking about it. I told her since then that I was temperarily insane because of what she did.


Actually, I don't think you overreacted at all.

"Magic Mike". A "chick flick". Now, what man "friend" would take a married female to the movies (drive-in/theater) to see this particular movie? It was certainly not for his entertainment, unless he is gay, or a dancer,or there is something in this particular movie that would be of interest to him personally. So, it's fair to conclude that this "date" was for her.

Now this movie can be seen in the theater as well as the Drive-in. Difference being is that the movie is viewed in a place where other people are sitting vs. the privacy of a vehicle. Hmmmmm

For her to disregard your feelings in favor of this "date" and THEN to put the blame on you is inexcusable. Don't let her do this to you. She needs to be on the hot seat here. You have every right to be angry with her.

She has lots of explaining to do to set things right, and that's just assuming this was innocent. If not, your W is dating.


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## here2learn

FreedomRider said:


> I know I over reacted! It was my wife telling me she betrayed me after thinking about it. I told her since then that I was temperarily insane because of what she did.


You did not overreact. You shared with her your concern and laid out a boundary that was non-negotiable with you and conveyed the consequences. She lied to you and ignored your boundary. She felt it was more important to go to a drive in movie with her friend than to keep your trust.


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## lovelygirl

FreedomRider said:


> I have asked her a couple times if she "wants" to save our marriage and *her answer is "I don't think it can be saved"*. I love her her and want to find a way to fix this. I feel horribly betrayed and everyone I have told about this thinks the drive in date was totally wrong.
> What can I do?


She doesn't sound like she wanted to try hard enough to save the marriage. The truth is that she didn't really care to save the marriage. The midlife crisis is not an excuse. 
I doubt he's just a friend. She couldn't wait to go there with him. Why not wait for you?


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Mid life crisis? This sounds like one of my gfs from highschool. Such childish behaviour. Sorry for what happened, be a man of your word next time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonim

FreedomRider said:


> I know I over reacted! It was my wife telling me she betrayed me after thinking about it. I told her since then that I was temperarily insane because of what she did.


You Did Not overreact. But you need to stand up to your word. Have her served at work. OR while she's out with her BF.


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## TDSC60

OK FR. Since I am nearer your age than your wife, I will state the obvious. She is more than 20 yrs younger than you and potential OM is probably closer to her age.

Do you think this is becoming an issue?


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## hookares

Twenty two years younger and you are surprised she's "starting to live?
There was only ten years difference in my age and my ex wife's and I couldn't get a handle on how little she appreciated either me or what I was providing her. Had she been another twelve years younger she wouldn't even have been capable of speaking the same language.
Good Luck.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

hookares said:


> Twenty two years younger and you are surprised hse's "starting to live?
> There was only ten years difference in my age and my ex wife's and I couldn't get a handle on how little she appreciated either me or what I was providing her. Had she been another twelve years younger she wouldn't even have been capable of speaking the same language.
> Good Luck.


That still does not justify or give her any right to go out with other men, or cheat. What love is that which has anexpiration date. Sure i agree, i would never marry a woman 20 years younger, id think a little ahead into my fuure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo

I would bet money that he's at least 10 years younger than she is.


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## seasalt

Your wife crossed a very clearly defined boundry. How many others did she cross and what will be the next to be crossed?

Once one boundry is crossed without consequences the next will be more extreme and accomplished without much reflection.

Four months is a long time. Did you have any knowledge of her acquaintance with this person?

Finally, a google search of drive-in cinemas would have given you something to discuss with your wife even as a possible road trip.

P.S. Who lets their wife go on a date without consequences?


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## walkonmars

FreedomRider said:


> It really bothered me that *she thought it over* after agreeing not to go and went anyway.


I'm more inclined to think that she called the OM to tell him she couldn't go and was "sweet-talked" into changing her mind. So IMO yeah, you were played - and maybe she was too.


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## Entropy3000

FreedomRider said:


> I am waiting, I have no proof that anything sexually happened. I do feel that I am being "played". It really bothered me that she thought it over after agreeing not to go and went anyway. I told her if he really is a friend then she should not have gone and explained the relationship to me when I got back so I could be comfortable with their friendship, she said I would have been mad so she went anyway. I will wait for the other shoe to fall so to speak, but I have started making plans to protect myself.


Magic Mike. LOL.

Well there is nothing to wait for. This has nothing to with her having sex with the guy. But she may have or will be in the future.

You know she was unfaithful. She went anyway to a drive in with this guy. Magic Mike even. Which is insult to injury.

The drive in is something you should have done with her.

So welcome to your new marriage where your wife is going to do whatever she wants when she wants with whom she wants.

The thing is if she wne despite you saying this woule end things then you need to follow through.

Yeah this seems harsh but she basically told you she does not want to be married to you anyway.

What married woman goes to a drive in with another man? GMAFB.

If I told my wife that this was important to me and thta I would file if she did it and she did. I would file. 36 years and all.

There is more going on with this guy than you know. Hey no doubt it is nice having a younger wife but what man would want to share her?


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## Entropy3000

FreedomRider said:


> I know I over reacted! It was my wife telling me she betrayed me after thinking about it. I told her since then that I was temperarily insane because of what she did.


You did not over react. You told your wife you were not ok with this type of open marriage. She chose this date with him over your marriage.


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## Entropy3000

CanadianGuy said:


> What I'm wondering is why she couldn't have waited the 2 days for you to return and go with you?


Yes. This would have been the way to go.


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## Entropy3000

FreedomRider said:


> The midlife crisis thing does come to mind.
> My wife and I both have friends of the opposite sex that we go out socially with, neither of us has permission to cheat. Not on dates to intimate places though and not with strangers as this guy is to me.
> Her computer, IPad and phone all have passwords on them, I willl try to gain info if I can get in.
> The drive in was supposed to be closing down that weekend. So it was her only chance to go.....I bet there are other drive ins around...duh


We make choices in life. That is what this is. She likes her freedom. She is redefining her marriage at the least here, but I think she told you becuase she wants out. I mean you are 64 now. I am assuming this is a younger guy.


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## MattMatt

FreedomRider said:


> The midlife crisis thing does come to mind.
> My wife and I both have friends of the opposite sex that we go out socially with, neither of us has permission to cheat. Not on dates to intimate places though and not with strangers as this guy is to me.
> Her computer, IPad and phone all have passwords on them, I willl try to gain info if I can get in.
> The drive in was supposed to be closing down that weekend. So it was her only chance to go.....I bet there are other drive ins around...duh


Or was this guy a theatre nut? He might be obsessed with cinemas, and when old cinemas close down, these people can get very obsessed with them, to the point of having to be at the last ever showing at that cinema. 

So, maybe he wangled a couple of tickets and because your wife showed polite interest in him, offered her his spare ticket?

But that's not the problem, is it? The problem is, your wife lied to you.


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## Wazza

Your options seem limited.

You wife went with another man, against your wishes, to a place she herself said she wouldn't go to with you because people only go there to make out. Pretty open and shut.

Sorry, I know how devastated you must feel.

I couldn't just accept this. If you draw a line in the sand you may lose her, but maybe you have lost her anyway.

Maybe some counselling, but many on this board say it's a waste of time and money when someone is still in the affair. I guess if you say you have a problem, and suggest counselling, her reaction to it may give you some insight. When my wife was in her affair, she refused counselling, and said the problems in the marriage were all my fault.

If your wife is in, or heading for an affair...do you think she is manipulative, or naive? That would make a difference to me. My wife was naive.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

She was 24 and you were 46 when you got married, and if you courted her for a couple of years, much younger when the two of you got together. You're getting up there in age and this might very well be an exit affair.


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## Kasler

Free, your kind of old and shes in her mid 40s. This may be the way out she was looking for.

Also you have to call her bluff. 

If you law down an ultimatum, and don't follow through than she'll never take any of your demands seriously since you've proven to her that you won't take action.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Some spouses dont want to D theyd rather have an affair as a way of saying im done and let you deal with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FreedomRider

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> She was 24 and you were 46 when you got married, and if you courted her for a couple of years, much younger when the two of you got together. You're getting up there in age and this might very well be an exit affair.


Actually she picked me and courted me putting herself into my life so I could not live without her. It is really quite a story but not for now. We dated for a while then lived together for about 8 months before getting married. She was wise beyond her years at 23 it was really a good match for both of us. At the time I was looking for a wife NOT a young wife just one that would love me, she promised she would.


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## Shaggy

FreedomRider said:


> Actually she picked me and courted me putting herself into my life so I could not live without her. It is really quite a story but not for now. We dated for a while then lived together for about 8 months before getting married. She was wise beyond her years at 23 it was really a good match for both of us. At the time I was looking for a wife NOT a young wife just one that would love me, she promised she would.


And now she picked to go on a date with another man. She tried to get you to agree up front to letting her date him, but you called her on it - yet she went anyway - to a place she previously told you was a make out spot.

She could have gone with you - she chose not to.

Who exactly gets this cozy with a guy at a store you shop at? I shop at the grocery store all the time and have never ever once gone on a date with a girl from there. Not even been asked!

so the whole thing reeks of lies and more lies.


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## costa200

FreedomRider said:


> Actually she picked me and courted me putting herself into my life so I could not live without her. It is really quite a story but not for now. We dated for a while then lived together for about 8 months before getting married. She was wise beyond her years at 23 it was really a good match for both of us. At the time I was looking for a wife NOT a young wife just one that would love me, she promised she would.


She doesn't seem to be doing it right now... Do you have kids?
The age difference is a factor that you should take into consideration. A woman that disrespects you this way, is she who you want to be there for you? Will she be there for you? You need to equate this properly. 

She doesn't even seem remorseful. She is taking this chance to dump you. I can't really say if you are missing much. As it looks, if it is not this then she will find another way to have you divorce her.


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## walkonmars

Please remove her as your beneficiary from any life insurance you may have and LET HER KNOW you've replaced with with some relative or a favorite charity. You can always reinstate if conditions warrant.


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## Jonesey

What´s up with this harping about age difference?
You all make it sounds like she is a high school girl.That docent know better. Come on people. Age has nothing to in this case.

Fact remain OP wife is up to no good..Concentrate on that


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## Badblood

Will_Kane said:


> Don't start a divorce over this, regardless of whatever ultimatum you made in the heat of the moment over the phone.
> 
> You would be foolish to divorce over what has happened so far. She has been a faithful spouse for 18 years and you have zero evidence.
> 
> She didn't even have to tell you this guy asked her out, or admit to going out with him later; you would have been none the wiser. It is possible that she believes they are just friends and is mis-interpreting romantic overtures as friendship.
> 
> If nothing has been suspicious before this, I would assume that this is in an early phase. This guy is feeling her out, trying to woo her, she is showing an interest or is just naive. Likes the attention. You've been married 18 years, trust your gut if it tells you something is wrong, but don't divorce just yet. If it tells you mid-life crisis, go with that.
> 
> Apologize for overreacting, tell her you trust her, then take steps to monitor her. Don't let her know you are still suspicious.
> 
> Buy a voice-activated recorder and put it under the seat of her car with heavy duty velcro. Put a GPS on the car. Keylog the computer. Give it a week and see what you come up with.
> 
> If it is the beginning phase, then you can try to nip it in the bud. If it is an affair, then you can decide what you want to do.


Apologize, tell her that you trust her and then spy on her. Boy that sounds like a great idea.


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## Will_Kane

Badblood said:


> Apologize, tell her that you trust her and then spy on her. Boy that sounds like a great idea.


I thought of wording it just like you did, but it sounded insincere, and I really think that is what the original poster should do - lie to her about trusting her, then spy on her for a short time to see if his "gut" is correct.


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## Badblood

Entropy3000 said:


> You did not over react. You told your wife you were not ok with this type of open marriage. She chose this date with him over your marriage.


WRONG!! She didn't choose the date over the marriage, she chose the date over the OP's ultimatum. She isn't a slave, she's a wife. She chose a movie over your command, so If you hadn't given her this ultimatum, would you be here now? I think, if it were me, I would put a little greater trust into an 18 year faithful wife, than allow my marriage to tank, for such a silly reason. I would suggest that you ignore all of the jackals calling for her blood and try to work this out. But it's your decision. This time, think it through before you act.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Badblood said:


> WRONG!! She didn't choose the date over the marriage, she chose the date over the OP's ultimatum. She isn't a slave, she's a wife. She chose a movie over your command, so If you hadn't given her this ultimatum, would you be here now? * I think, if it were me, I would put a little greater trust into an 18 year faithful wife, than allow my marriage to tank, for such a silly reason.* I would suggest that you ignore all of the jackals calling for her blood and try to work this out. But it's your decision. This time, think it through before you act.


She went on a date with another man. Nothing silly about that.


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## sandc

She knows you'll cave in to her. You need to show her you won't. Now... what are consequences for what she has done? What are YOU going to do?


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Jonesey said:


> What´s up with this harping about age difference?
> You all make it sounds like she is a high school girl.That docent know better. Come on people. Age has nothing to in this case.
> 
> Fact remain OP wife is up to no good..Concentrate on that


I didn't mention her age because I thought that she didn't know any better. I mentioned it because he is OLDer and she's relatively young. Like I said before, more than likely her date was around 10 years younger than her -- which would be more than thirty years younger than her husband.


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## lovelygirl

Jonesey said:


> What´s up with this harping about age difference?
> That docent know better. Come on people. Age has nothing to in this case.
> 
> Fact remain OP wife is up to no good..Concentrate on that


Sure if we try to be politically correct and idealistic we can say age has nothing to do. BUT we are trying to figure out why she's up to no good. There is/are a/many reasons, right?

Of course age difference could be one of the factors she's cheating on him. Don't even doubt about it!
She's probably losing her sexual attraction, as she now considers the OP an "old" man while looking for some hot and young sex out there. He is way too old for her and I doubt she married him for love and not for money (or anything related) [though we don't know the whole story].


> You all make it sounds like she is a high school girl.


It's not our fault if she's acting like a HS girl.


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## Wazza

Badblood said:


> Apologize, tell her that you trust her and then spy on her. Boy that sounds like a great idea.


Thanks goodness....I sometimes think I am the only person on TAM who sees it as a problem if the only way you can have a loving trusting relationship is through the use of VARS and keyloggers. 



Badblood said:


> WRONG!! She didn't choose the date over the marriage, she chose the date over the OP's ultimatum. She isn't a slave, she's a wife. She chose a movie over your command, so If you hadn't given her this ultimatum, would you be here now?


Well, hang on....assuming the OP has his facts right, she chose to go with another man to a place she had previously described as being a place to make out. And she did that even though her husband told her it wasn't appropriate (and I assume told her why).

Surely there is a very real question over her commitment to the marriage here, if wife's stance is rejecting an ultimatum that she can't date other men without regard for her husband's feelings.


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## Will_Kane

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I didn't mention her age because I thought that she didn't know any better. I mentioned it because he is OLDer and she's relatively young. Like I said before, more than likely her date was around 10 years younger than her -- which would be more than thirty years younger than her husband.


*Original poster said the other man was 44 years old*.

Post #18.

_"info from her: about her age, not married don't know if he has a girl friend or if he is gay, owns a music store
I found out *he is 44*"_

Nothing is posted here to indicate that age is a reason, other than the fact that an age gap does in fact exist. We don't know whether or not it is a factor. It is one more thing to consider. We have seen many cases just like this where there was no age difference between the spouses.

There is no evidence of infidelity, just a 42-year-old woman who decided to go to a drive-in movie with a 44-year-old male "friend" over the objections of her 62-year-old husband. Told her husband she wouldn't go, then went anyway without telling her husband she had changed her mind, even after husband threatened divorce if she went. Husband saying he had never heard of this so-called male "friend" before. Husband also saying she had turned down husband's past mulitiple invitations to go to the drive-in with him because that was where teenagers went to do inappropriate things, that was the reason she didn't ever want to go with husband.

The impetus for going with other man was that the drive-in was closing that weekend, before the husband would return home in two days. *By the time hubby would return home, drive-in would be closed*. Other man put it that she should go to the drive-in with him because she had never been and might not have another chance. In some areas, drive-ins are few and far between.

Her reply to divorce threat is that if husband doesn't trust her, she doesn't think the marriage can be saved. She does not acknowledge that her going with a male friend previously unknown to husband to a place she previously expressed disdain at going with husband, should give husband any reason to mistrust.

Now apparently she is pushing for divorce based on husband's "unjustified" lack of trust, and husband does not want divorce.


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## Badblood

From what I understand this was a one time thing, the Drive -in was closing and she had never been to one ( I haven't either) and she didn't see the harm in it, and as far as the OP knows, nothing happened. But the OP chose this as a "make or break", issue., even before he had any evidence. (he still doesn't have any evidence ) Why? Insecurity , perhaps? Many older men , who have very much younger wives, have insecurity issues. I'm wondering if that might have a bearing on why he gave her such a rigid ultimatum. IDK . I think that I would like more info .


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## Badblood

Wazza said:


> Thanks goodness....I sometimes think I am the only person on TAM who sees it as a problem if the only way you can have a loving trusting relationship is through the use of VARS and keyloggers.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, hang on....assuming the OP has his facts right, she chose to go with another man to a place she had previously described as being a place to make out. And she did that even though her husband told her it wasn't appropriate (and I assume told her why).
> 
> Surely there is a very real question over her commitment to the marriage here, if wife's stance is rejecting an ultimatum that she can't date other men without regard for her husband's feelings.


Of course there are questions, both about her motives and about the reasons behind such a huge ultimatum.


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## FreedomRider

I want to thank you all for your assistance in my time of trouble.

I have had another discussion with the wife/future ex about the situation we are in. 
She insists that nothing improper went on that it was not a date as such they are only friends. She says she did not know what the Movie was before she went and it was not very good. It seems she is mad at me because I did not trust her, I told her it was not her I did not trust it was the situation but she still insists I don't trust her. I do trust her, yeah really, she is not the kind that cheats.
She absolutely believes there is nothing wrong with going to a drive in with a friend, she doesn't know why I was not aware of him as she insists she has mentioned him before. I really do not remember anything about him but that she shops in his store occasionally, perhaps I am wrong here.
She has started a spreadsheet to list all our assets and liabilities as I asked her to, she has been paying the bills and has the info I do not. She wants to split everything 50/50, she is not the kind that will cheat and I will not either, so that should work. We will both work the finances when it all gets put together.
We did end up disagreeing, not too loud, when I kept trying to find out why she lied/changed her mind and went out with him. I guess it boils down to she thought I would change my mind and see that it was harmless. She thinks I should have known her well enough to trust her. Me telling her I did/do trust her means nothing to her because I did ask her if she F'd him. She is really upset over that. I told her I asked because I was not there to see so how would I know. She said I should have trusted her and she changed her mind and went because of my ultimatum.
I tried to explain how I felt but she thinks I should not be hurt at all. I told her I am hurt beyond belief over what she did, but she insists she did nothing wrong. I ended up saying I want to fix this and you are resisting, stop being stubborn and do something to fix it. I said I was sorry she got her feeling hurt and to put her big girl panties on and get over it. 
The conversation ended and she and our 22 yo son (she had him before I met her) who was there left to go for their daily 2 mile walk. He might be able to talk some sense into her as he knows what happened, I guess I will find out more later, if she will talk.


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## rgbarnum

I suppose every relationship is different, but for what it is worth, my ex wife was just going to bingo with a "friend" while I was deployed to Iraq. Then she was just going to the dirt track to watch the saturday night races, then to bowling events. Of course I said the same thing as you, that i wasnt comfortable with that, and she says we are just friends. 2 Weeks after our divorce they were married. FYI she screwed him over too


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## FreedomRider

I did tell her that I do believe I over reacted do to the shock of her request, (unknown person, location, Magic Mike) but she is too concerned that I don't trust her. I agree with some here the ultimatum was too much.

Our age difference is really not a factor.
She is much better looking now than when we met.
She/we truly married for love, we were both pretty broke back then, being a good father for her son helped too.

She in my opinion went out on a date, she does not call it a date just out with a friend, she says she would have let me go to a drive in with a female friend if I had asked.

I am upset because she chose the date over my ultimatum which I now feel was wrong, but I feel betrayed that she went.


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## Will_Kane

I can understand her being hurt and upset, but I can't understand how she doesn't see why you might think something funny was going on based on the circumstances:

1. She always turned you down on going to the drive-in, giving as a reason that teenagers did "inappropriate things" at the drive-in; Now she just had to go because she had never been and might never get another chance.

2. You had never heard of this guy before (I see you are willing to concede that maybe she did mention him but you just don't remember it, but I don't see her making any concession that maybe she mentioned it's possible you didn't hear it or remember it);

Something is not right here. I think something is up between her and the other man, despite not having any solid evidence. She is too quick to divorce you over this one blowup and the whole situation is just too odd. I can't believe she would divorce based on this one incident, even if you showed a lack of trust and despite your ultimatum given in the heat of the moment to try to influence her decision.


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## lovelygirl

She is still disrespecting your concern and your feelings about it. 
Given that she doesn't realize what she did was wrong, she might end up doing it again. She sees it as something normal so she won't have a problem walking all over and ignoring you again. 
Instead of worrying about how you feel, she worries about the fact that you might not trust her. She wants to have your trust so that she can do it again without a problem.

Also, it surprises me that she's ready for a divorce instead of trying to fix things and make it up to you. This is what I'd call a red flag -among other red flags.

I'm also surprised that some of the TAM members are taking this easy and don't see anything wrong.


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## Wanting1

Her being willing to divorce over this is a big red flag. I'm thinking that she maybe didn't get physical with this guy, but is looking forward to being free so that she can pursue a relationship with him without "cheating." It makes no sense otherwise to quit a long term marriage over this.


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## Badblood

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> Her being willing to divorce over this is a big red flag. I'm thinking that she maybe didn't get physical with this guy, but is looking forward to being free so that she can pursue a relationship with him without "cheating." It makes no sense otherwise to quit a long term marriage over this.


It goes both ways. It is bad that she is willing to D over this, but it's equally bad that the OP threated divorce over a movie. They both don't seem to control their words during an argument.


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## Badblood

FreedomRider said:


> I did tell her that I do believe I over reacted do to the shock of her request, (unknown person, location, Magic Mike) but she is too concerned that I don't trust her. I agree with some here the ultimatum was too much.
> 
> Our age difference is really not a factor.
> She is much better looking now than when we met.
> She/we truly married for love, we were both pretty broke back then, being a good father for her son helped too.
> 
> She in my opinion went out on a date, she does not call it a date just out with a friend, she says she would have let me go to a drive in with a female friend if I had asked.
> 
> I am upset because she chose the date over my ultimatum which I now feel was wrong, but I feel betrayed that she went.


Does this kind of stuff happen often? Neither of you seem to be able to have a disagreement without making threats, or insults. Asking her if she effed him was a really bad idea. Considering that she already thinks you don't trust her. If BOTH of you can calm down, you might be able to repair this. But it's going to take good will on both of your parts, and a reasonable attitude. And both of you need to think before you talk.


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## lovelygirl

Badblood said:


> It goes both ways. It is bad that she is willing to D over this, but it's equally bad that the OP threated divorce over a movie. They both don't seem to control their words during an argument.


Over a movie??

Bb, you are not a shallow poster and I don't know why you refuse to see deeper.

It wasn't about the movie. It was about who she was with and where. *
Why did she want to have privacy with this guy? *
She herself didn't like this place when she was offered to go there with her husband. 
*Why did she choose to go with the OM now? *
it's a place where people usually _make out _and have their own _privacy_. *
How can a married woman choose this place and go there with someone who's not her husband? *


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## Wanting1

lovelygirl said:


> Over a movie??
> 
> Bb, you are not a shallow poster and I don't know why you refuse to see deeper.
> 
> It wasn't about the movie. It was about who she was with and where. *
> Why did she want to have privacy with this guy? *
> She herself didn't like this place when she was offered to go there with her husband.
> *Why did she choose to go with the OM now? *
> it's a place where people usually _make out _and have their own _privacy_. *
> How can a married woman choose this place and go there with someone who's not her husband? *


Especially considering she had previously refused to go there with her husband because it was only a make-out spot. This was *her* definition of a drive-in movie. So, the very fact that she wanted to go there with another man while her husband was out of town is a huge problem.

I do believe he played the divorce card too soon, though. Now, she's backed into a corner. And it looks like they may very well get divorced over it.


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## Malaise

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> *Especially considering she had previously refused to go there with her husband because it was only a make-out spot. This was her definition of a drive-in movie. So, the very fact that she wanted to go there with another man while her husband was out of town is a huge problem.*
> I do believe he played the divorce card too soon, though. Now, she's backed into a corner. And it looks like they may very well get divorced over it.


Right! She went there BECAUSE it was a makeout spot w/privacy


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## dogman

FreedomRider said:


> I want to thank you all for your assistance in my time of trouble.
> 
> I have had another discussion with the wife/future ex about the situation we are in.
> She insists that nothing improper went on that it was not a date as such they are only friends. She says she did not know what the Movie was before she went and it was not very good. It seems she is mad at me because I did not trust her, I told her it was not her I did not trust it was the situation but she still insists I don't trust her. I do trust her, yeah really, she is not the kind that cheats.
> She absolutely believes there is nothing wrong with going to a drive in with a friend, she doesn't know why I was not aware of him as she insists she has mentioned him before. I really do not remember anything about him but that she shops in his store occasionally, perhaps I am wrong here.
> She has started a spreadsheet to list all our assets and liabilities as I asked her to, she has been paying the bills and has the info I do not. She wants to split everything 50/50, she is not the kind that will cheat and I will not either, so that should work. We will both work the finances when it all gets put together.
> We did end up disagreeing, not too loud, when I kept trying to find out why she lied/changed her mind and went out with him. I guess it boils down to she thought I would change my mind and see that it was harmless. She thinks I should have known her well enough to trust her. Me telling her I did/do trust her means nothing to her because I did ask her if she F'd him. She is really upset over that. I told her I asked because I was not there to see so how would I know. She said I should have trusted her and she changed her mind and went because of my ultimatum.
> I tried to explain how I felt but she thinks I should not be hurt at all. I told her I am hurt beyond belief over what she did, but she insists she did nothing wrong. I ended up saying I want to fix this and you are resisting, stop being stubborn and do something to fix it. I said I was sorry she got her feeling hurt and to put her big girl panties on and get over it.
> The conversation ended and she and our 22 yo son (she had him before I met her) who was there left to go for their daily 2 mile walk. He might be able to talk some sense into her as he knows what happened, I guess I will find out more later, if she will talk.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the same story over again

She is willing to divorce because of a one time jealousy, I don't think so. 
When a person is in an EA they become hyper critical of their spouse and after a time they are just looking for a reason to get out. Maybe you didnt give her a legitimate reason so she has to fall back on this lame excuse

Maybe she won't cheat with a PA but most people don't realize the danger of becoming emotionally attached to someone other than their spouse. Read many of the threads on here and you'll see they are so sure that they want to D and swear to God it has nothing to do with the OM. 
Then the fog lifts after NC and they see the light.

Tell her she owes you three months of time together and NO CONTACT with movie boy. You'll see a change. You've been married for a long time she owes the marriage that much. If she feels the same in three months so be it.

But you have to monitor the NC.


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## snap

Badblood said:


> It goes both ways. It is bad that she is willing to D over this, but it's equally bad that the OP threated divorce over a movie. They both don't seem to control their words during an argument.


BB, there are no drive-in movies where I live, so my knowledge of that is based on Hollywood/pop culture references. But frankly, I can't recall any where it was a stage for anything less than making out.


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## 67flh

man this is spooky to me..30 years ago tomorrow my ex wife came home from a drive in movie with a family member and said she was leaving me....freaking me out here,,,buddy your wife did more than eat popcorn,and drink pepsi...all she's looking for is a way outta your marriage without looking like a ho--now she can say your controlling but she will omit a few details to family and friends.


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## warlock07

She was waiting for a chance to get out and you gave her the ticket. Now she won't leave the chance while making you feel guilty for doing it(So the divorce will be your fault as opposed to if she asked for one )


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## Count of Monte Cristo

warlock07 said:


> She was waiting for a chance to get out and you gave the ticket. Now she won't leave the chance while making you feel guilty for doing it(So the divorce will be your fault as opposed to her asking for one )


:iagree:


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## Shaggy

Her worry is that you don't trust her? When what she did was go out for the night with a guy in his car to advice in movie? Oh, and the movie just happens to be a film design to get women worked up?

Dude, this OM carefully chose what move they were going to see, and there is little doubt he tried to make a move on her. 

Men, do not ask out married women to the movies. Never ever. Ever. 

The fact that she is worried that you don't trust her, versus bring worried that her choosing to go out with him tells something did happen.

Pulling out the " trust" card is one of the main manipulation tools used by cheaters.

Wait for the controlling word to pop up too.

Oh and the he's just a friend I can't talk too.

Pull her cell phone bill. And see just how many times she is contacting this just a friend.

There is a lot of smoke here.

Oh, and stop dancing around the trust question. The fact is you did trust her up until she actually thought about accepting his offer to go out. That started eroding your trust. Then when she refused to respect how you felt about it, follow with going, that further destroyed your trust. So honestly right now you don't have the same level of trust in her that you did, and it is entirely because of her actions and choices.


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## theroad

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> She went on a date with another man. Nothing silly about that.


I agree. And a date at a place where their cars are used as motel rooms, not with her BH because she refused to go to a drive in with him, but she goes on a date there with a boy friend.


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## costa200

> Our age difference is really not a factor.
> She is much better looking now than when we met.
> She/we truly married for love, we were both pretty broke back then, being a good father for her son helped too.


Alright, let me be a huge d*ck here because i'm starting to get the feeling someone has to. 

When you met your wife, being older and all, she was searching for a daddy for the kid. You were it. Now the kid isn't a kid anymore. He is already in his 20's and you have outlived your usefulness. 

This whole bullsh*t wasn't about the drive in she never cared about or your ultimatum (you were only wrong in the sense that you were apparently bluffing, when should have meant it). This is about the fact that she is down to her last sparks of youth and she has begun to search for an appealing partner since she now can do it because the boy is grown. 

She chose to go with this guy even if it hurt your feelings because she doesn't give a rat's ass about your threats and pleadings. In fact the "threat" you made was just what she wanted to hear.

Lets try and cut the naivety here. She could have gone with that guy you have a huge fight about it and then work it out. But no. She now has a bullsh*t excuse to end it and be free to pursue that guy or another one. 

My prognosis is that if your divorce within weeks she will be all over this other dude. Perhaps days. 

I'm sorry, i know this is not what you want to hear right now. But if a very good friend came to me with your story this is what i would tell him. Honesty isn't always painless. 



> Originally Posted by *Badblood*
> It goes both ways. It is bad that she is willing to D over this, but it's equally bad that the OP threated divorce over a movie. They both don't seem to control their words during an argument.


Out of curiosity. Imagine yourself in the OP's shoes in the heat of it. What would you say to your lady? 
"Sure honey go and rock those springs"??


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## jnj express

She is way out of line---unless she has been seeing him, and knew something about him, how could she know what he was like, by just going into his store

He could have been a druggie, criminal, store owner or not, he could have raped her, he could be a crazy---she doesn't know him----you were absolutely right in attempting to forbid her to go, she would be in a car alone with him for at least 2 hours, and she was in harms way, for anything to happen---MARRIED WOMEN DO NOT DO THINGS LIKE THAT

IF SHE REALLY WANTED TO GO TO THE DRIVE-IN, SHE COULD HAVE GONE WITH A GF, OR HER SON

This guy has gotten into her head---I guarantee you, the answers she is giving you, and her line of thinking are coming from him----he is screwing up your mge-------

Your wife has never given you this kind of crap, until he came along---am I right???????


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## kenmoore14217

This fellow is in desperate need of some assertive training I believe.


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## jnj express

This is not about trust---this is about a grown up 42 yr old mature woman, who knows what right, and wrong is/are---honoring her vows---to have and to hold, and to stand by your H., of 22 years

Not to rip him apart---by going out with single men, when he is not even around to defend his mge.


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## Thor

FreedomRider, you are trying too hard to extract meaning from her words. Look to her actions.

My wife was unable to agree with me when I told her "Just because something is suspicious doesn't mean you are guilty, but _just because you are innocent doesn't mean something can't look suspicious_". That is where you are with your wife in the conversations. She asserts she is innocent and therefore you should have no reason to be suspicious. Which conflicts with your logic (good logic based in millenia of human history) that a married woman going on a date with another man is a red flag of infidelity about to happen.

You aren't going to change her mind to agree with you!

I would suggest that though you find her trustworthy with the assets that you carefully verify all the numbers. Look for cash siphoned off as an escape fund. Verify several years of history for each account. If you do proceed with divorce you have to make this about business not about being Nice to her.

I'm sorry you are going through this. It is of her making, not yours.


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## skip76

FreedomRider said:


> I want to thank you all for your assistance in my time of trouble.
> 
> I have had another discussion with the wife/future ex about the situation we are in.
> She insists that nothing improper went on that it was not a date as such they are only friends. She says she did not know what the Movie was before she went and it was not very good. It seems she is mad at me because I did not trust her, I told her it was not her I did not trust it was the situation but she still insists I don't trust her. I do trust her, yeah really, she is not the kind that cheats.
> She absolutely believes there is nothing wrong with going to a drive in with a friend, she doesn't know why I was not aware of him as she insists she has mentioned him before. I really do not remember anything about him but that she shops in his store occasionally, perhaps I am wrong here.
> She has started a spreadsheet to list all our assets and liabilities as I asked her to, she has been paying the bills and has the info I do not. She wants to split everything 50/50, she is not the kind that will cheat and I will not either, so that should work. We will both work the finances when it all gets put together.
> We did end up disagreeing, not too loud, when I kept trying to find out why she lied/changed her mind and went out with him. I guess it boils down to she thought I would change my mind and see that it was harmless. She thinks I should have known her well enough to trust her. Me telling her I did/do trust her means nothing to her because I did ask her if she F'd him. She is really upset over that. I told her I asked because I was not there to see so how would I know. She said I should have trusted her and she changed her mind and went because of my ultimatum.
> I tried to explain how I felt but she thinks I should not be hurt at all. I told her I am hurt beyond belief over what she did, but she insists she did nothing wrong. I ended up saying I want to fix this and you are resisting, stop being stubborn and do something to fix it. I said I was sorry she got her feeling hurt and to put her big girl panties on and get over it.
> The conversation ended and she and our 22 yo son (she had him before I met her) who was there left to go for their daily 2 mile walk. He might be able to talk some sense into her as he knows what happened, I guess I will find out more later, if she will talk.


she has you fooled. you told her you were uncomfortable going, she never went with you even though you asked, you were out of town, she went behind your back, she does not regret it, has no problem ending marriage. "You can't talk to me like that, i want a divorce". can you not see how ludicrous that is? You were chosen as a provider and father figure for her child. you have done what she needed so she is moving on to the next chapter in her life. "thanks for raising my kid and for half your 
sh1t." . turn the tables, find out what is going on, make the divorce difficult on her, expose her a55.


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## Unsure in Seattle

Regardless of the "innocence" of going to amovie or whatever, she went on a date with another man, against your wishes. Is divorce the answer? I have noidea, but the next time she rails against you about not trusting her, kindly inform her that MARRIED WOMEN SHOULDN'T BE GOING OUT ON DATES WITHOUT THEIR HUSBANDS.

Stick up for yourself, man! Don't let her blameshift.


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## Dad&Hubby

Step 1. Follow your ultimatum. If I gave my wife an ultimatum like you and lets assume she's 100% innocent. What she would do is follow my ultimatum, but then DEMAND counseling for my untrusting nature and threatening divorce. She wouldn't be a 16 year old and say "well then I'm going to do it", unless she WAS actually guilty of what my suspicions are.

Step 2 - Hire an attorney and do a financial discovery. I don't care how much you "trust that she's fair". NOTHING'S FAIR IN A DIVORCE!!

If she's TRULY innocent, she'll relent, express her concerns and you both can go to counseling. You would need it as much as her. If she's guilty. She'll accept the divorce and be excited she can now go chase Mr. Magic Mike.


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## alte Dame

Is it possible for both of you to agree on a breather to regroup and consider the situation more calmly? It seems like you reacted the way any healthy man would have reacted to her telling you initially about the drive-in. It seems that she at first reacted the way a woman in a marriage with mutual trust would have reacted: she told you about the plans and assumed that you would know that it was innocent. What she's missing in her indignation is that your 'ultimatum' was really how any reasonable man would react to hearing that his beloved wife was making plans like that. If she'd been smart and adult, she would have respected that her drive-in plans, however innocent in her mind, crossed a boundary for you that she needs to understand and respect. Instead, she acted on an impulse that told her you didn't have a right to direct her actions. Certainly, if the tables had been turned she wouldn't have been comfortable with you making similar plans with a woman she didn't know. I don't believe it's an issue of trust. Rather, it's simply respecting and safeguarding your marriage.

Maybe some time to calm down can help you both recover some perspective (?).


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

There is a lot of good advice here. The issues I would focus on are the date (I cannot imagine sitting in a car for 2 hours with a man whom I know as only an acquaintance) and her readiness to accept a divorce over it. If she "thought about it" before going, what was she thinking? What did she DO on this date, since she decided that the marriage would be ending?

IMO, you are being way too trusting on the finances. This spreadsheet work needs to be a joint effort. I, too, think you need to look for missing $$--she may have stashed money to leave.


----------



## Thorburn

I do not think you were over the top with the ultimatum. My wife has had A's. But even if she had none, this would be over the top for me. If I was out of town and she tells me that she is going to drive in with a friend as the OP described him and the "friendship" my wife would be packing her bags, no questions. In my opinion your wife already got boned, based upon her reaction. Her actions are brazen and show a total disrespect for you.


----------



## WalkingInLight

FreedomRider said:


> She in my opinion went out on a date, she does not call it a date just out with a friend, she says she would have let me go to a drive in with a female friend if I had asked.
> 
> I am upset because she chose the date over my ultimatum which I now feel was wrong, but I feel betrayed that she went.


I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I must say that based on everything you have posted, I beleive there is more going on in this situation than meets the eye.

Frankly I'm surprised that your wife is willing to walk away from your marriage over this. If it was just a matter of mistrust she would sit with you and work on fixing the marriage. The fact she is so willing to walk away indicates that an affair is building or has already taken place (emotional or physical).


----------



## Badblood

lovelygirl said:


> Over a movie??
> 
> Bb, you are not a shallow poster and I don't know why you refuse to see deeper.
> 
> It wasn't about the movie. It was about who she was with and where. *
> Why did she want to have privacy with this guy? *
> She herself didn't like this place when she was offered to go there with her husband.
> *Why did she choose to go with the OM now? *
> it's a place where people usually _make out _and have their own _privacy_. *
> How can a married woman choose this place and go there with someone who's not her husband? *


You're right, LG, I am not a shallow poster, but I'm also not a suspicious one either. Freedomrider has no evidence that ANYTHING inappropriate took place. He Forbade her to go beforehand, on pain of divorce, without even knowing the OM or the situation., then accused her of effing the om after she said that nothing happened. Our projecting motives to her, is unfair , without much more info. IMO they both have serious issues. BTW, I was curious so My gf and I tried this yesterday. She owns a Cadillac sedan and we tried to have sex in it, while parked with doors and windows shut. It can be done, but not without a lot of noise and discomfort. My GF and I are approximately the same age as the OM and Freedom's wife. Perhaps it would be easier if we were 17, but as it is, I could think of lots and lots of better places to f**k


----------



## crossbar

Dude, she chose a date over your marriage. You were uncomfortable with her going and you told her you didn't want her to go on a date. And what did she do? She went on a date. 

If nothing happened she seems awefully agreeable to throw your marriage away over literally nothing....if nothing, in fact, did happen.
But let's face it. The dude took her to a drive in and out of all the movies that are out there, he takes her to see magic mike; which is eye candy porn for women. He wasn't stupid. He was hoping that the movie would get her a little hot and bothered. You're out of town, this girl is ripe for the picking

And who the hell does this guy think he is. Taking a married woman out on a date.

Dude, you want to find out what's going on. You need to get a couple of Voice Activated Recorders (VAR's) and place one in the house. Somewhere where she usually talks on her phone. In the master bedroom maybe. Then go to the hardware store and buy some heavy duty velcro and secure a VAR under her drivers seat. Cheaters usually do most of their communication while driving. They can talk more freely. Put a keylogger on the home computer and see who and what she's e-mailing to people. And check the phone records. She how often she's talking to this douche bag.

Dude, when your gut is telling you something isn't right, then go with your gut. I think she's throwing the towel in way too easily.


----------



## KanDo

I am sorry you are here. I don't care whether anything happened or not. Your wife went out on a date with another man. Period. This is unacceptable. It wasn't a miscommunication. You specifically told her it was unacceptable to you. You let her know the consequences of crossing this boundary. We can argue whether this was a wise consequence another time. But that is irrelevant. Boundaries mean nothing if the consequences don't occur. Follow thorough with the divorce process unless there is true remorse. 

As others have noted, I too am confident there is more going on here. Don't go into the settlement process blind. I am pretty sure she is in an affair already and this was simply a way to paint you as the bad guy. Look for hidden funds.


----------



## Speed

So your wife goes on a date with some dude after you tell her you will divorce her if she does....

And now she has convinced you that you have overreacted and has you begging for the marriage?

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _


----------



## CaptVere

Ya no kidding. You ask her not to go on a date with another man. She lies to you and goes anyway. Then she is basically giddy at the prospect of divorce. Wake up man.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Badblood said:


> You're right, LG, I am not a shallow poster, but I'm also not a suspicious one either. *Freedomrider has no evidence that ANYTHING inappropriate took place.* He Forbade her to go beforehand, on pain of divorce, without even knowing the OM or the situation., then accused her of effing the om after she said that nothing happened. Our projecting motives to her, is unfair , without much more info. IMO they both have serious issues. BTW, I was curious so My gf and I tried this yesterday. She owns a Cadillac sedan and we tried to have sex in it, while parked with doors and windows shut. It can be done, but not without a lot of noise and discomfort. My GF and I are approximately the same age as the OM and Freedom's wife. Perhaps it would be easier if we were 17, but as it is, I could think of lots and lots of better places to f**k


To me, it is automatically inappropriate for my wife to go on a date with another man. Add in a drive-in (which means the two alone together), a movie allegedly designed to turn women on and previous comments by my wife that drive-ins are for making out (and which she refused to go with me), and I see this as extremely serious. Your milage may very.

I would also add that if this is not a problem, what would be? If the OPs wife spent the night with the guy in a hotel, can she be upset that he still does not trust, absent any other evidence of wrong-doing? At some point, appearances matter and you need to respect your spouse enough to not strain their trust. I think the OPs wife has failed that here.


----------



## lovelygirl

Badblood said:


> He Forbade her to go beforehand, on pain of divorce, without even knowing the OM


Why was it necessary for him to know the guy?
That's not all that important. She went on a date!
Whether he knows the guy or not is a secondary matter.
What would make the difference if he knew the guy?
It wouldn't change the fact that they went to a place where usually couples go *to get persona*l and *make ou*t. 



> He Forbade her to go beforehand, on pain of divorce, without even knowing the situation.,


Of course he KNEW THE SITUATION. They went to a drive in cinema. What more did he have to know?

EDIT: She couldn't wait to find an excuse to DIVORCE the OP.
Finally it is here!


----------



## walkonmars

Dad&Hubby said:


> Step 1. Follow your ultimatum. If I gave my wife an ultimatum like you and lets assume she's 100% innocent. What she would do is follow my ultimatum, but then DEMAND counseling for my untrusting nature and threatening divorce. She wouldn't be a 16 year old and say "well then I'm going to do it", unless she WAS actually guilty of what my suspicions are.
> 
> *Step 2 - Hire an attorney and do a financial discovery. I don't care how much you "trust that she's fair". NOTHING'S FAIR IN A DIVORCE!!*
> 
> .


If she's serious about the divorce then, as others have said, it's probably been her plan for some time to do so and was looking for ANY opportunity. 

If so, then what's to keep her from tilting the books in her favor? After all, as far as she's concerned she'll have no need to ever see you again. 

Oh and again.... REMOVE her as a beneficiary from any insurances you have.


----------



## costa200

Badblood said:


> You're right, LG, I am not a shallow poster, but I'm also not a suspicious one either. Freedomrider has no evidence that ANYTHING inappropriate took place. He Forbade her to go beforehand, on pain of divorce, without even knowing the OM or the situation., then accused her of effing the om after she said that nothing happened. Our projecting motives to her, is unfair , without much more info. IMO they both have serious issues. BTW, I was curious so My gf and I tried this yesterday. She owns a Cadillac sedan and we tried to have sex in it, while parked with doors and windows shut. It can be done, but not without a lot of noise and discomfort. My GF and I are approximately the same age as the OM and Freedom's wife. Perhaps it would be easier if we were 17, but as it is, I could think of lots and lots of better places to f**k


You missed my question last time? What would you do when you are on a trip and your wife calls you to say she is doing this. Without warning and without time to make this huge philosophical introspection. What do you say? Are you fine with it? Seriously?


----------



## Badblood

Okay, try to think reasonably. She asked him about it, BEFOREHAND. She didn't try to hide anything. She stated to him that it wasn't a date, and even after, she still told him immediately. Does this sound like a cheater to you? She objected to his ultimatum, and EVEN the OP now says that it was a mistake, and has said so repeatedly. The OP did not show any faith in her judgement, and accused her of effing the OM. Show me where he had any trust in his wife either before or after the movie? Yes, she may have made a poor choice, but there is none of the deceit or evasion that is normally present in a WS. How many cheaters will telegraph their affairs to their 
BS? Both of them over-reacted to the situation, bigtime, ( and are still doing so) but I simply don't think that you can lose an 18 year marriage for one poorly conceived act. I think that the OP now wishes he had been more trusting, and had used a different tactic, because this and his accusations have backfired. I hope that they both can calm down and work on their marriage.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Badblood said:


> Okay, try to think reasonably. She asked him about it, BEFOREHAND. She didn't try to hide anything. She stated to him that it wasn't a date, and even after, she still told him immediately. Does this sound like a cheater to you? She objected to his ultimatum, and EVEN the OP now says that it was a mistake, and has said so repeatedly. The OP did not show any faith in her judgement, and accused her of effing the OM. Show me where he had any trust in his wife either before or after the movie? Yes, she may have made a poor choice, but there is none of the deceit or evasion that is normally present in a WS. How many cheaters will telegraph their affairs to their
> BS? Both of them over-reacted to the situation, bigtime, ( and are still doing so) but I simply don't think that you can lose an 18 year marriage for one poorly conceived act. I think that the OP now wishes he had been more trusting, and had used a different tactic, because this and his accusations have backfired. I hope that they both can calm down and work on their marriage.


Trust is for suckers. Your speculation that it was a one time poor decision is just that, speculation. It's just as likely that she's been having a PA for months and is reacting so strongly because he called her on it.


----------



## Badblood

costa200 said:


> You missed my question last time? What would you do when you are on a trip and your wife calls you to say she is doing this. Without warning and without time to make this huge philosophical introspection. What do you say? Are you fine with it? Seriously?


I may not be fine with it, but I'm certainly not going to threaten her with divorce , without a LOT more information than the OP had. I think that a good 18 year marriage is worth more than that.


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## Badblood

WorkingOnMe said:


> Trust is for suckers. Your speculation that it was a one time poor decision is just that, speculation. It's just as likely that she's been having a PA for months and is reacting so strongly because he called her on it.


Trust is for suckers? Well , good luck with that. I guess that most of the world is composed of suckers then, because most people do trust. And everything done by the wife is speculation, because she isn't here to explain her side of the story. If you or anyone else condemn her without hearing both sides of the story, it says much more about you that it does about either the OP or his wife.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

We NEVER* get both sides of the story. We can only go on what posters tell us. And from what he has told us she was way out of line dating another man.


Edit: *Sometimes both parties do come on here to share their respective stories.


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## costa200

Badblood said:


> I may not be fine with it, but I'm certainly not going to threaten her with divorce , without a LOT more information than the OP had. I think that a good 18 year marriage is worth more than that.


C'mon Badblood, you have just been hit with that over the phone you have to say something, you probably tell her you're not ok with it and she says she doesn't care and is going anyway. What now? 

I'm just trying to understand how you would handle it differently. Being put in the spot in an emotionally charged situation. What do you say?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Look at the facts. Here is a wife who refuses to go to a drive in with her husband. Her stated reason for refusing to go is that the only purpose of the drive in is to make out. So, she waits until her husband is out of town and then what does she do? Goes to the drive in. With another man. A man who is a stranger to her husband. Hmm. And what movie does she see? Some disney flick? Um, no. She goes to watch the most highly (aimed at females) sexual movie in about a decade. So in short, she's dating another man. And when her husband objects she says that he just has to trust her. And yes, if he blindly trusts her under those circumstances then he's a sucker.


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## SadSamIAm

I agree with your decision to not allow your wife to go to the Drive-In. Whether that was right or wrong, really doesn't matter at this point.

The curious thing to me is how your marriage could end over this. You need to tell her that you are willing to work on trusting her. Willing to go to MC if need be. If she still wants a divorce, then I would be really suspicious. 

If she is so trustworthy, then why the password on her phone and laptop and email. I agree with doing some surveillance. Maybe a key logger to get passwords. A VAR at home and in her car.

Something is wrong with an 18 year marriage ended over something like this.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

SadSamIAm said:


> Something is wrong with an 18 year marriage ended over something like this.


Yeah, something's wrong alright. OP's wife has a new fvck buddy.


----------



## thunderstruck

I agree that what she did was F'd up, and I'd probably drop the same boundary/consequence on my W in this situation.

But...I find it kind of odd that if her plan was to cheat, why would she tell her H ahead of time, and why would she admit she had gone after she knew what H had threatened? Would have been a hell of a lot easier for her to just go, and never tell H. Maybe in her convoluted mind, she did nothing wrong with this "friend." Assuming, of course, that nothing inappropriate went on...while she was sitting at the drive-in...with another man...watching Magic Mike.


----------



## Badblood

costa200 said:


> C'mon Badblood, you have just been hit with that over the phone you have to say something, you probably tell her you're not ok with it and she says she doesn't care and is going anyway. What now?
> 
> I'm just trying to understand how you would handle it differently. Being put in the spot in an emotionally charged situation. What do you say?


Lookit, Costa. My ex wife did a he** of a lot worse than this. Look at some of my past posts, sometime. My ex was bat-sh*t crazy, but I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bath water, simply because I'm pissed, or my wife doesn't obey me, without getting ALL of the facts, first. I would probably postpone any decisions until I got home.I'm a Marine Grunt, I can usually think pretty well in a crisis.


----------



## lovelygirl

Badblood said:


> She didn't try to hide anything. She stated to him that it wasn't a date,


Really? It wasn't a date because she said so?

BB, you're a BS and you are more experienced than me. 
You know that you CANNOT RELY ON A (supposedly) CHEATER'S word, can you?


----------



## SadSamIAm

Badblood said:


> Lookit, Costa. My ex wife did a he** of a lot worse than this. Look at some of my past posts, sometime. My ex was bat-sh*t crazy, but I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bath water, simply because I'm pissed, or my wife doesn't obey me, without getting ALL of the facts, first. I would probably postpone any decisions until I got home.I'm a Marine Grunt, I can usually think pretty well in a crisis.


There was no time to postpone. The drive in movie theater was closing. She wouldn't have allowed you to postpone.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Badblood said:


> Okay, try to think reasonably. She asked him about it, BEFOREHAND. She didn't try to hide anything. *She stated to him that it wasn't a date, and even after, she still told him immediately.* Does this sound like a cheater to you? She objected to his ultimatum, and EVEN the OP now says that it was a mistake, and has said so repeatedly. The OP did not show any faith in her judgement, and accused her of effing the OM. Show me where he had any trust in his wife either before or after the movie? Yes, she may have made a poor choice, but there is none of the deceit or evasion that is normally present in a WS. How many cheaters will telegraph their affairs to their
> BS? Both of them over-reacted to the situation, bigtime, ( and are still doing so) but I simply don't think that you can lose an 18 year marriage for one poorly conceived act. I think that the OP now wishes he had been more trusting, and had used a different tactic, because this and his accusations have backfired. I hope that they both can calm down and work on their marriage.


Its a date. Don't care what she called it, it is in fact a date. 

As far as one poorly conceived act, she decided, after time to deliberate, that going out on a date to a drive-in with another man was more important than her husbands feelings. Not sure I would go the divorce route myself, but her fail on this more than outweights his over-reaction.

As far as lack of deciet, I would argue that telling him she won't go, then going, is dishonest. Again, perhaps that is not a problem for you.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Let the OP decide how much he evidence he needs to either D or R. For whatever route the OP goes, it is up to him to decide, when is enough. If you wish to R, you need certain steps to bring her back. Its possible but plausible...not sure. You will not know until you try.


----------



## lovelygirl

thunderstruck said:


> But...I find it kind of odd that if her plan was to cheat, why would she tell her H ahead of time, and why would she admit she had gone after she knew what H had threatened?


Oh, I think she's an evil woman. 

If she hadn't told her husband that she would go and if he had found out all of a sudden, she would have been accused of being a cheater by doing something behind his back.
BUT, given that she doesn't want to be blamed for what she had already planned on doing, she told her H so that she could be politically correct with him and she knew that even if her H would still accuse her of cheating/doing inappropriate things, she could still have a good alibi by saying "_oh well, it wasn't a cheating. I told you beforehand so you cannot blame me. Now the fault is all yours because you don't trust me!_". 
It was the perfect scenario to blame-shift the OP and make him look like he doesn't trust his wife and he needs to be blamed. 

See how evil she is? And the unfortunate fact is the the OP is really buying it.


----------



## MattMatt

OK... so she did *not *want to go to the drive-in with her husband because "that's where teenagers go to make out."

OK. Check! Got that!

But she *did *want to go to the drive-in with a male friend because "that's where teenagers go to make out."

Oh. Now, would that be a tiny little old red flag waving, right there?

Would there be another reason why she did not want her husband to accompany her to the drive-in? _"Hi, Velma! Not seen you with this old dude before! Who is he? Your hus...? Oh... S**t! Sorry! Did I put my foot in it?"_


----------



## donders

The only answer to this dilemma is for the Op to appear to forgive his wife for him over reacting with a sincere sounding apology, maybe even flowers and a cheap gift, and then go about business as usual, while carefully monitoring for signs of an affair, including the usual.. VAR's, checking phone records, texts, checking work schedules, car odometer readings, maybe even get a PI involved.

He's not going to end the marriage on a whim and he doesn't have anything else to go on.

That's the only logical way to handle this.


----------



## Badblood

lovelygirl said:


> Really? It wasn't a date because she said so?
> 
> BB, you're a BS and you are more experienced than me.
> You know that you CANNOT RELY ON A (supposedly) CHEATER'S word, can you?


Actually you can, but not in the way that they expect. If the OP's wife were a cheater, the her words mean nothing, if she isn't a cheater, and nothing inappropriate (besides her bad decision) happened, I would be sure to know about that too.


----------



## Badblood

WorkingOnMe said:


> Look at the facts. Here is a wife who refuses to go to a drive in with her husband. Her stated reason for refusing to go is that the only purpose of the drive in is to make out. So, she waits until her husband is out of town and then what does she do? Goes to the drive in. With another man. A man who is a stranger to her husband. Hmm. And what movie does she see? Some disney flick? Um, no. She goes to watch the most highly (aimed at females) sexual movie in about a decade. So in short, she's dating another man. And when her husband objects she says that he just has to trust her. And yes, if he blindly trusts her under those circumstances then he's a sucker.


Dude, you can say this a thousand times , but that doesn't make it fact. Every single thing you have stated, can be interpreted differently. That's why I have said several times that we simply don't have enough info, and are speculating. We actually know only two facts. 1. she went to a drive-in 2. The OP gave her an ultimatum. Everything after that is conjecture.


----------



## MattMatt

If she had not told OP that she'd gone to the movie, he'd never know.

So, after lying to him about how she wasn't going, she went and then told him she'd gone. 

Why would she do that? Because she knew how he would react and wanted to cause an opportunity for the marriage to be over? Did she go to the drive-in at all?

Or did some mutual acquaintance of her and her husband see her and OM together? (If so, doing what?)


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

I think she admitted to the lesser crime.


----------



## Badblood

SadSamIAm said:


> There was no time to postpone. The drive in movie theater was closing. She wouldn't have allowed you to postpone.


You misunderstand. What I would postpone, is what I was going to do about it, until I got home. This is what I would probably do if I had been the OP. When the wife asked if she could go to the drive-in, I would have told her no, I am not comfortable with that. If she agreed and THEN went anyway, I would find out why she did it, listen to her explanation, and if I was not satisfied , would investigate further. I would NEVER threaten her with divorce, beforehand, never accuse her of cheating without evidence, but if I found out that she WAS in fact a cheater, then I would divorce, without doubt.


----------



## Badblood

MattMatt said:


> If she had not told OP that she'd gone to the movie, he'd never know.
> 
> So, after lying to him about how she wasn't going, she went and then told him she'd gone.
> 
> Why would she do that? Because she knew how he would react and wanted to cause an opportunity for the marriage to be over? Did she go to the drive-in at all?
> 
> Or did some mutual acquaintance of her and her husband see her an OM together? (If so, doing what?)


See what I mean? ALL of this is conjecture. There is zero proof that anything of the sort happened.


----------



## Badblood

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I think she admitted to the lesser crime.


This is possible, but needs to be proven.


----------



## KanDo

Badblood said:


> I may not be fine with it, but I'm certainly not going to threaten her with divorce , without a LOT more information than the OP had. I think that a good 18 year marriage is worth more than that.


Well Badblood. You and I would be on opposite sides of this one. It is unacceptable to me to have my wife go out on a date with another man. period.( and this is a date no matter how you cut it! This reminds me of President Clinton arguing her didn't have sex with that woman...) If she wanted to see this drive in she could have gone by herself or with a girlfriend. It is even more unacceptable to agree not to go and then go anyway. Her subsequent actions show she has no remorse. If she wants to act like a single woman, she should be a single woman.

OP. She is acting this way because she knows you have no balls, or she was just looking for an out. Either way, I believe you need to file and mean it. She doesn't respect you. At least you should respect you.


----------



## Wazza

Badblood said:


> Dude, you can say this a thousand times , but that doesn't make it fact. Every single thing you have stated, can be interpreted differently. That's why I have said several times that we simply don't have enough info, and are speculating. We actually know only two facts. 1. she went to a drive-in 2. The OP gave her an ultimatum. Everything after that is conjecture.


BB technically you are right, we never have all the facts. Let's face it, we could all be 13 year olds making this stuff up. Let's assume we are not.

If we don't rely on husband's word, we know nothing. If we do rely on it, we also know wife thinks drive-ins are makeout places, and that she went to a drive-in with another man.

While it is not conclusive proof, do you agree that saying to your husband "I don't go to drive-ins because they are make-out places" and then going with another man, is maybe a tiny bit of a red flag?

She told him. Yes. My wife told me on occasion when she was going to meet the other man and told me to trust her. Again, not proof, but the fact that she said something doesn't disprove anything.

A car may not be the most comfortable place to have sex, but it has been known to happen, and in cars much smaller than a Cadillac.  

Trust...."I'm going to go out to a makeout place with another man and you have to trust me" is not trustworthy behaviour to me.

My situation is not the same as the original poster, but my wife knows I stayed married after her affair because of the children, and she knows that if there is another affair I will leave. We don't dwell on it, but it's clearly understood. If she starts dating another man, my marriage is over. No discussion. So if this situation were me and my wife I would be talking to my lawyer. That doesn't mean I advise OP to do that immediately. For a start he mentions no previous infidelity. But that's where it may go.


----------



## donders

Wazza said:


> My situation is not the same as the original poster, but my wife knows I stayed married after her affair because of the children


Why? Countless studies have shown that it's better for the children for their parents to split rather than maintaining a dysfunctional relationship.

I see lots of threads here where the person stays with the cheater and they say its "for the kids" when it's obvious the kids are only an excuse and they're staying for their own reasons, usually because they're afraid to lose the person, start all over again, be alone, that sort of thing.


----------



## MattMatt

Badblood said:


> See what I mean? ALL of this is conjecture. There is zero proof that anything of the sort happened.


That's what happens on Internet forums. Someone says: "This is the information I have, currently."

And other people say: Well, based on my personal experiences, I think that such-and-such might be the reason why that happened." Other people will say: "I think so-and-so happened."

Others will chime in with questions based on what the OP said, then fresh speculation will be made.

Amidst all the speculation the OP can look and, based on their own experience and knowledge, make a reasoned judgement as what to do next.


----------



## Complexity

The OP didn't over react at all. I would never let my wife go to a drive in with another man, iz you crazy?!?!

But seriously though, I think the age difference might be an issue here.


----------



## donders

Complexity said:


> But seriously though, I think the age difference might be an issue here.


It could be, but so what?

You can't fix chronology.


----------



## Wazza

donders said:


> Why? Countless studies have shown that it's better for the children for their parents to split rather than maintaining a dysfunctional relationship.
> 
> I see lots of threads here where the person stays with the cheater and they say its "for the kids" when it's obvious the kids are only an excuse and they're staying for their own reasons, usually because they're afraid to lose the person, start all over again, be alone, that sort of thing.


Brief response, so as not to threadjack. And I don't want to offend anyone who made a different decision to me. This is just my view.

Better for parents to split? Happy to receive links to studies. The phrase "countless studies" gets thrown around by all sides. But I'm not convinced based on the many real life cases I have observed. I think that, whether parents split or stay, a dysfunctional relationship is a selfish act on the part of the parents that forces kids to bear the brunt of parent's relationship issues, and sometimes a the kids become a weapon parents use to hurt each other. I think it is possible to build a relationship that is a functional partnership without being a full marriage. That was my only reconciliation goal at the start, and that aside I took on other things to fill the emptiness in life. I had the advantage that, however we felt about each other, my wife and I always took the responsibility to the kids seriously. Not everyone has that. Some of the stories I have read on TAM are sickening.

Other reasons? I made a vow before God and I intended to keep it. I'm deeply religious.

That aside, of course there was fear, sadness, embarrassment, etc. That may have been a factor at first. I wasn't thinking rationally at the time so it's hard to say. But not later in the piece. While the marriage was still totally devoid of intimacy there were other fish in the ocean who were swimming past me and flapping their gills. There was no need for me to be alone and I knew it. Ws tempted a couple of times but not to the point where I succumbed. 

Hope that makes sense.


----------



## the guy

I think its time for a polygraph test.

But if you're wired like me, break out the duck tape, rope, some leather tac, and a paddle. I might take back the "we're over statement" but there sure as hell is going to be consequences!


----------



## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> WRONG!! She didn't choose the date over the marriage, she chose the date over the OP's ultimatum. She isn't a slave, she's a wife. She chose a movie over your command, so If you hadn't given her this ultimatum, would you be here now? I think, if it were me, I would put a little greater trust into an 18 year faithful wife, than allow my marriage to tank, for such a silly reason. I would suggest that you ignore all of the jackals calling for her blood and try to work this out. But it's your decision. This time, think it through before you act.


Same thing for me kind sir. But then again I mean what I say. People who know me, know this. I am a loving man. However, the things in my life that have the highest priority ... I am a serious guy. I do not make idle threats. I do not draw lines in the sand casually.

I have been married twice this long to my wife and IF she chose to be unfaithful to me with something like this, it would be a dealbreaker.

But you know what? She would not. Not out of fear mind you. Not out of being my slave. But she would be out of her freaking mind to throw me away like that after 36 years. IF she did it, I would get the message that the problem was much bigger and the marriage was over.

Then again I have both self esteem and esteem for my wife.

Carry on now and tell him how he should be ok with this because this is ok in a marriage.


----------



## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> From what I understand this was a one time thing, the Drive -in was closing and she had never been to one ( I haven't either) and she didn't see the harm in it, and as far as the OP knows,* nothing happened. * But the OP chose this as a "make or break", issue., even before he had any evidence. (he still doesn't have any evidence ) Why? Insecurity , perhaps? Many older men , who have very much younger wives, have insecurity issues. I'm wondering if that might have a bearing on why he gave her such a rigid ultimatum. IDK . I think that I would like more info .


The most important thing happened. He has evidence. She admitted to being intentionally unfaithful. 

<rant>
So lets pull out all of the FUD words. we can think of here.

Jealous, insecure and controlling. She is not his slave.

I will have to look back did someone get that he is not her dad yet? Though he is indeed old enough to be her father. But that would not be PC as that would be age discrimination. I wonder what they would say on the View about this. You go girl? 

Maybe he has a small penis and he was afarid his wife would see a bigger one. Lets accuse him of that too. Wow that would childish to even mention.

He is archaic. He is being a neandrathal. I am sure I am missing some other FUD words. He does not understand a modern marriage.

How dare any man ( or woman ) tell a woman ( or man ) they cannot do what they want with whom they want anytime they want. They do not own them after all. Their body is theirs can they can chose to share their body or themselves any way they want. They are sovreign entities. No piece of paper can take anyones freedoms away.

What else?

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

He has every reason to be jealous as his wife chose to go to the drive-in with this other man against his wishes. Yes it was a date whether there was any sexual activity at all. 

He should be insecure about his marriage now, so you got that right.

He does need to take control of his marriage right now. His wife has chosen to be unfaithful so he needs to take action.

Some folks have boundaries short of a full documented PA. Partly why you I don't get too wrapped up in the spying. I get it. It just depends where your boundaries are.

*Fidelity in marriage is not just about someone not having sex with someone else.* Though that is indeed included. 

So many threads and comments are based on the only thing that matters is that sex cannot be proved. Like that is the boundary.
</rant>


----------



## CaptVere

Regardless of what you think about his reaction, this marriage was already in trouble as evidenced by:

1) She says she wouldn't go to the drive in with her husband because people only go there to make out. Ya, and? I bet this relationship is mostly sexless as well.

2) She then proceeds to go on a date with another man to a venue her husband has previously asked her to go to and she refused. She would only go there to make out though as she stated herself.

3) Not only is it disrespectful to even go there with another man, but she lies to her husband, goes behind his back, takes another man to a self-described make out joint, and then belittles him for having an issue with this. This demonstrates a complete lack of respect in the marriage. This is a major structural issue in this marriage that points to much more serious issues than the actual date.

4) Her destructive behaviour is either a massive fitness test to see how much control she can wield over him and have him lie down and take it or she is purposely destroying the marriage because she is too much of a coward to either address the real issues or be the one to leave. Now she gets to blame everything on his overreaction when I suspect this marriage has had many issues in the past and not much love for a long time. That all doesn't matter now though because she has a story to tell all of her friends and relatives about this crazy overreacting guy.

This is a lot of assumption, but it's logical extrapolation. This woman appears borderline abusive, but also just a woman who will do what she can to justify bad behaviour to save face. We see it all the time on sites like this. The husband here is acting like a doormat and probably does in many areas of his marriage. He's scared of her and she wields control over him because of this fear. The solution here starts with him. I imagine at his age it's difficult to think of the prospect of starting over, but he still has many good years left and does he really want to just settle in with a woman who is demonstrating a complete lack of respect and love? It's never too late to find your backbone and go live your life for you. Every guy needs to stop being afraid of their wives. This happens way too often.


----------



## Entropy3000

FreedomRider said:


> I did tell her that I do believe I over reacted do to the shock of her request, (unknown person, location, Magic Mike) but she is too concerned that I don't trust her. I agree with some here the ultimatum was too much.
> 
> Our age difference is really not a factor.
> She is much better looking now than when we met.
> She/we truly married for love, we were both pretty broke back then, being a good father for her son helped too.
> 
> She in my opinion went out on a date, she does not call it a date just out with a friend, she says she would have let me go to a drive in with a female friend if I had asked.
> 
> I am upset because she chose the date over my ultimatum which I now feel was wrong, but I feel betrayed that she went.


You did trust her.

You trusted her not to go. She broke that trust.

You trusted her not to want to go. She broke that trust.

You trusted her to put your marriage before this date. She broke that trust.

She did not trust you. Think about that for a bit.


----------



## CaptVere

Entropy3000 said:


> What guy takes a maried woman to this while her husband is away?


A gay man or a man who will do anything to get the woman alone.


----------



## Entropy3000

Tall Average Guy said:


> To me, it is automatically inappropriate for my wife to go on a date with another man. Add in a drive-in (which means the two alone together), a movie allegedly designed to turn women on and previous comments by my wife that drive-ins are for making out (and which she refused to go with me), and I see this as extremely serious. Your milage may very.
> 
> *I would also add that if this is not a problem, what would be? * If the OPs wife spent the night with the guy in a hotel, can she be upset that he still does not trust, absent any other evidence of wrong-doing? At some point, appearances matter and you need to respect your spouse enough to not strain their trust. I think the OPs wife has failed that here.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Some people have to walk in on their wife riding the OM cowboy to even think there is a problem I guess. The wife could say that she was giving CPR. And for religious reasons she had to remove all of the clothing first.


----------



## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> Okay, try to think reasonably. She asked him about it, BEFOREHAND. She didn't try to hide anything. She stated to him that it wasn't a date, and even after, she still told him immediately. Does this sound like a cheater to you? She objected to his ultimatum, and EVEN the OP now says that it was a mistake, and has said so repeatedly. The OP did not show any faith in her judgement, and accused her of effing the OM. Show me where he had any trust in his wife either before or after the movie? Yes, she may have made a poor choice, but there is none of the deceit or evasion that is normally present in a WS. How many cheaters will telegraph their affairs to their
> BS? Both of them over-reacted to the situation, bigtime, ( and are still doing so) but I simply don't think that you can lose an 18 year marriage for one poorly conceived act. I think that the OP now wishes he had been more trusting, and had used a different tactic, because this and his accusations have backfired. I hope that they both can calm down and work on their marriage.


She forced him into a situation where he had to tell her no to this extreme. So that she could blame him for the divorce. 

IT WAS A PLOY.

But is this did not work she would have upped the ante.

And yes this sounds very much like a cheater to me.


----------



## costa200

Badblood said:


> Dude, you can say this a thousand times , but that doesn't make it fact. Every single thing you have stated, can be interpreted differently. That's why I have said several times that we simply don't have enough info, and are speculating. We actually know only two facts. 1. she went to a drive-in 2. The OP gave her an ultimatum. Everything after that is conjecture.


You kinda forgot the most important thing there:

3. She doesn't give a damn about his feelings. 

So we are in agreement this date wasn't kosher. But for you it is perfectly ok for a married woman to be with another dude as long as "nothing happens". And you would need to "investigate" to then decide what to do.

I'm totally different. For me it is unacceptable from start to end. It's unacceptable that she thought going on the date was ok, it's unacceptable that she lied and said she would not go (basically robbing the guy of the possibility to try to do something about it), it's unacceptable that she actually went and it's unacceptable that she shows no awareness that what she did was wrong. 

I would have none of it. Every single one of the points would have me question her loyalty and all of them together it is not even a question. She would not have a chance to blabber excuses before i kicked her to the curb.

Those are my barriers. And contrary to the OP i would mean every word of it. And you know what else? A woman that is with me over such an extended period of time will know i mean business and won't even have the chance to twist around before i nuke her to the wind if she decides to pull this kind of crap on me. 

I don't need to "investigate" nothing. Disrespecting me in this way would be enough. Because, the most important thing about this is... Where does it go from here?

Next time she will dine with this guy, catch another movie, go to a bar, have some drinks and whatever. "It's harmless", "we are just friends", "don't you trust me?"... BULLSH*T 

This woman is over 40. She knows what she is doing isn't proper. She knows a guy doesn't just ask a married woman out like that. But she just doesn't care. That's the point. 

What exactly does the OP lose if he goes for D right now? Apparently this wife refuses to go on a date with him just to go with her "friend". And how long before she finds another excuse for divorce?


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Thats right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhatsHerName

I have to admit I didn't read all 146 responses but want to offer my own small opinion. If I called my husband of 18 years (but it's really 30 yrs) and he forbade me from doing something I would be pissed as hell. Telling me he didn't want me to go, it is inappropriate, it is unsafe, it is not something he wants to happen is one thing. Telling me if I went the marriage of 18 years is over would get my blood boiling. I probably wouldn't go but he sure would get an earful when he got home 2 days later.

It sounds like the OM was trying to pick up the wife and she was enjoying the attention. She should not have gone with the OM, especially after the OP expressed his dislike of the idea.

However, that being said, it sounds like she is pretty blase about ending a marriage of 18 years too. Sounds like two people playing pea**** ~ the OP when the wife called him on the phone and the wife the entire week after he got home. It may even be that she didn't go to the Drive In and just told the OP she did as payback.

I think the two of them need to sit down and calmly discuss what happened, what went wrong, and what each of them considers unacceptable behavior with the opposite sex. I kind of like my husband's definition ~ If you wouldn't be comfortable doing it in front of me then you shouldn't do it behind me.


----------



## Entropy3000

the guy said:


> *I think its time for a polygraph test.*
> 
> But if you're wired like me, break out the duck tape, rope, some leather tac, and a paddle. I might take back the "we're over statement" but there sure as hell is going to be consequences!


Why?

He already knows :

1) He told her he did not wnat her to go. That this was dealbreaker.

2) She said she would not go.

3) She lied and went anyway.

Again what he does know is enough. Is there something more here? Quite possibly. So what?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

WhatsHerName said:


> If I called my husband of 18 years (but it's really 30 yrs) and he forbade me from doing something I would be pissed as hell.


What if he forbade you from having sex with another man? That's ordering you around, isn't it?


----------



## Entropy3000

Ummm. When my wife told to me to cut ties with the person I was in the EA with, I thought she was wrong. But you know what? I did it becuase I loved AND trusted my wife.

I did not get pissed at my wife for trying to protect the marriage.

Duh!?


----------



## WhatsHerName

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> What if he forbade you from having sex with another man? That's ordering you around, isn't it?


Well now I wouldn't call him asking if I could would I? And I already agreed to not have sex with other men when I married him. It isn't the order around part that would piss me off; it's the authoritarian idea of forbidding me from participating in a social activity (yes going to the movies with someone of the opposite sex is a social activity). Seems to me the OP had a problem with his wife going somewhere with someone he didn't know and didn't even know she was friends with. However, I think he over reacted by threatening her with the end of their marriage if she defied him. I think she did it *just *to defy him.


----------



## Entropy3000

Again the boundary seems to be sex. Hmmmmm. Ok folks. Whatever. Dating others is a deal breaker for me. I guess not for many.


----------



## WhatsHerName

Don't get me wrong. I think what she did was totally out of line. She said she wasn't going to go and did. *That* to me is the major problem. She actually thought about it and then went ahead and did what she said she wasn't going to do. But I don't think it's worth ending an 18 year marriage over. And I don't think this happened overnight. There is more to this than we are hearing. I can't imagine my husband threatening me with divorce if I went out with a friend (of either sex) unless he had some reason to believe I shouldn't.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

I think she did it because she's fvcking him.


----------



## costa200

> (yes going to the movies with someone of the opposite sex is a social activity)


Of course it is. It's the exact kind of "social activity" i had with women when i wanted to bang them. Uuups i said it...


----------



## Wazza

WhatsHerName said:


> Well now I wouldn't call him asking if I could would I? And I already agreed to not have sex with other men when I married him. It isn't the order around part that would piss me off; it's the authoritarian idea of forbidding me from participating in a social activity (yes going to the movies with someone of the opposite sex is a social activity). Seems to me the OP had a problem with his wife going somewhere with someone he didn't know and didn't even know she was friends with. However, I think he over reacted by threatening her with the end of their marriage if she defied him. I think she did it *just *to defy him.


If it was a social activity and clearly innocent, I could see your point. 

Does the point that they were alone, at a place wife regards as a make-out place, affect your thinking at all, or is that still just a social occasion?

Supposing, hypothetically, the husband was able to confirm they had had intercourse at the drive-in. If she wanted to go, alone, with the same guy, again, would it still be just a social occasion?

Suppose they didn't have intercourse, but she blew him. Or they kissed. Or they held each other. At what point does it cease to be just a social occasion?

Trying to understand where you draw the line of crossing into infidelity. And whether you see any grey areas.

Is infidelity, against the husband's wishes, a valid reason to end a marriage?

I posted earlier that if it was my wife, in the circumstances described, I would probably divorce her, and I laid out the reasons why, based on her previous infidelity. Am I being controlling?


----------



## Badblood

Wazza said:


> If it was a social activity and clearly innocent, I could see your point.
> 
> Does the point that they were alone, at a place wife regards as a make-out place, affect your thinking at all, or is that still just a social occasion?
> 
> Supposing, hypothetically, the husband was able to confirm they had had intercourse at the drive-in. If she wanted to go, alone, with the same guy, again, would it still be just a social occasion?
> 
> Suppose they didn't have intercourse, but she blew him. Or they kissed. Or they held each other. At what point does it cease to be just a social occasion?
> 
> Trying to understand where you draw the line of crossing into infidelity. And whether you see any grey areas.
> 
> Is infidelity, against the husband's wishes, a valid reason to end a marriage?
> 
> I posted earlier that if it was my wife, in the circumstances described, I would probably divorce her, and I laid out the reasons why, based on her previous infidelity. Am I being controlling?


You may not be controlling, but you are certainly being insecure. Remember Waz, that this woman has no history of cheating like yours does. But look at your own post. Total conjecture. You "suppose", something happened, "hypothetically", something happened. Where are your FACTS? Other than her decision to defy her husband's ultimatum, NOBODY can prove any wrongdoing, of any kind. As far as it goes, we can't even actually PROVE she went to the drive-in at all. BTW, whenever I hear words like ; Obey , forbid demand, order, command ,etc, I automatically infer weakness and insecurity. Strong men don't need to order or command their wives to do things, nor do they need to forbid them from doing things. So what we have here are lots of speculations, made-up scenerios, and insecurity, but very little in the way of solid evidence or proof. I am not going to divorce based on conjecture, I require facts.


----------



## Badblood

Before making wild accusations, ask yourself, What can I actually prove?


----------



## Wazza

Badblood said:


> You may not be controlling, but you are certainly being insecure. Remember Waz, that this woman has no history of cheating like yours does. But look at your own post. Total conjecture. You "suppose", something happened, "hypothetically", something happened. Where are your FACTS? Other than her decision to defy her husband's ultimatum, NOBODY can prove any wrongdoing, of any kind. As far as it goes, we can't even actually PROVE she went to the drive-in at all. BTW, whenever I hear words like ; Obey , forbid demand, order, command ,etc, I automatically infer weakness and insecurity. Strong men don't need to order or command their wives to do things, nor do they need to forbid them from doing things. So what we have here are lots of speculations, made-up scenerios, and insecurity, but very little in the way of solid evidence or proof. I am not going to divorce based on conjecture, I require facts.


Don't take this the wrong way BB, cos I like you and all, but I am actually interested in Whatshername's answers, not yours.

I posed hypotheticals to understand her limits, since to me this was not just a social occasion, but Whatshername says it was. 

I've addressed your "We don't have the facts" thesis. Nothing in this latest post makes me want to add to it. You see as "wild accusations" what I see as "reasonable suspicion". Agree to disagree.


----------



## jnj express

We may all be missing the point here----this smells real bad like an EXIT A.-------just look at all the facts---it all ties together---also what happened to O P


----------



## lovelygirl

WhatsHerName said:


> I have to admit I didn't read all 146 responses but want to offer my own small opinion. If I called my husband of 18 years (but it's really 30 yrs) and he forbade me from doing something I would be pissed as hell.


Let's see what you've got to say when he asks you to go to drive-in movie with any of his female friends. Imagine your husband and this female friend in the middle of all the couples making out and getting private while watching the movie.
How would it be normal for your husband to be there with his female friend?

EDIT: I just read your thread where you said you cheated.
This explains your thoughts about low boundaries in marriage.


----------



## MattMatt

jnj express said:


> We may all be missing the point here----this smells real bad like an EXIT A.-------just look at all the facts---it all ties together---also what happened to O P


Yep. I got a whiff of that smell, too..


----------



## Malaise

I don't think you have to prove anything.

Just the fact that she went to a known make-out spot with a man who is not her husband, or a blood relative, would be a major act of disrespect for the H and the marriage.

He shouldn't have to order her, she should know as a 42yr old woman what is acceptable or not.

Some have said it was a ploy on her part, it sure smells like that.

It it was, it got the desired effect. She can leave the marriage and point to her H as controlling. And get the sympathy from her friends.

And maybe she effed the OM as an added bonus. At that point,she's thinking why not.


----------



## AlphaHalf

IMHO. I think the 22 year age gap has alot to do with her actions. She is looking down the road and seeing you in a senior citizen home, while she is still younger and capable of attracting men around her age. 
She could love you but not the way you want her to, She'll justify her actions because her "Needs aren't being met". She is dating now preparing to leave if you even sneeze wrong, she'll bail trying to keep her good wife image intact. Hopefully this is not the case.


----------



## costa200

> Strong men don't need to order or command their wives to do things, nor do they need to forbid them from doing things.


We don't need to because our women know better. And if they don't they are history.


----------



## Badblood

costa200 said:


> We don't need to because our women know better. And if they don't they are history.


oh, another tough guy, eh? lol. Come on. Costa. lighten up, dude.


----------



## Badblood

I think that this thread has about run it's course. Nobody has convinced anybody about anything, we haven't had any updates from the Op, so I think I'll go elsewhere until the OP shows up again.


----------



## costa200

Badblood said:


> oh, another tough guy, eh? lol. Come on. Costa. lighten up, dude.


Don't need to. I'm the genuine article.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Badblood said:


> You may not be controlling, but you are certainly being insecure. Remember Waz, that this woman has no history of cheating like yours does. But look at your own post. Total conjecture. You "suppose", something happened, "hypothetically", something happened. Where are your FACTS? Other than her decision to defy her husband's ultimatum, NOBODY can prove any wrongdoing, of any kind. As far as it goes, we can't even actually PROVE she went to the drive-in at all. BTW, whenever I hear words like ; Obey , forbid demand, order, command ,etc, I automatically infer weakness and insecurity. Strong men don't need to order or command their wives to do things, nor do they need to forbid them from doing things. So what we have here are lots of speculations, made-up scenerios, and insecurity, but very little in the way of solid evidence or proof. I am not going to divorce based on conjecture, I require facts.


So again, where is the line? Use staying the night at a hotel instead of going to a drive-in movie, and then tell me if there is a difference. If so, what is it?


----------



## Biscuits

FreedomRider said:


> New here and asking for help.
> I (64yo)was returning from a 2 week trip across the country to see relatives when my wife (42yo) of almost 18 years called me all excited because she was asked to go to a Drive In to see the movie Magic Mike by a supposed friend of hers. I had no prior knowlege of this guy or any friendship she might have had with him. He works at a store in town that she goes to occasionaly.
> My wife had never gone to a Drive In before, I had asked her to go several times over the years but she always turned me down..."that is where teenagers go to do inappropriate things" is why she would not go.
> I told her I did not approve of her going with some stranger to a Drive In and that I did not want her to go. She said that he was a friend and it was ok. He told her the drive In was closing and since she "had never gone before she had to go with him". That is what she told me. I told her it was totally unaccecptable to go there with him and that if she did that our marrage will be over. She argued that there ws nothing going on but said she would not go. I did not hear from her until 2 days later when I returned home and she admitted she thought about what I said and deceided to go anyway. I asked her "even though you knew my feelings about it?" and she said yes, that I should not talk to her like that and I was wrong for telling her what to do. I of course (being totally devistated by this) told her that we are thru that she has destroyed our marriage. She says she did nothing wrong, she says there was no sex or anything. The marriage is over because of what I said, she will not be married if I don't trust her. I did tell her I trust her but not some stranger.
> Well it has been over a week now and according to her it is my fault sshe is totally blameless. I have talked to her twice explaining how/why I feel a married woman going to a Drive in movie with a virtual stranger is wrong. She says she is not wrong and won't be married to someone that does not trust her.
> I have asked her a couple times if she "wants" to save our marriage and her answer is "I don't think it can be saved". I love her her and want to find a way to fix this. I feel horribly betrayed and everyone I have told about this thinks the drive in date was totally wrong.
> What can I do?


My wife (fiance at the time) cheated on me and we went through the SAME discussions/blame/it was my fault until she told me that she had sex with the OM. You told her not to go, that the marriage would b over if she did, now she blames you for her going to the movies despite your wishes. DO NOT let her guilt you into believeing that you are at fault. If she told you not to do something and you did it, what would her reaction be?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Having experienced the heart-wrenching devastation of infidelity, I've learned that you can't be passive in your relationships. You have to take an active role and if that means issuing edicts, commands, orders, etc. to each other then so be it. I trusted my ex and said nothing when she went out with the 'girls' until 2AM in the morning. Never again. I also was so comfortable with myself as a man and a husband that I had no problem with her having opposite sex friends. Never again. If you want your so-called freedom then don't get married. Coming together as one necessarily means that you are giving a part of yourself to the other person.

OP's wife should've had the decency to respect his wishes and if she disagreed she should've had a heated discussion with him when he got home. Instead, she went on a date and experienced something with the OM that she long denied OP. I really think this was an exit affair and if it wasn't this incident it would've been something else that she used as her trigger to escape from the marriage.


----------



## lovelygirl

Tall Average Guy said:


> So again, where is the line? Use staying the night at a hotel instead of going to a drive-in movie, and then tell me if there is a difference. If so, what is it?


Great point!

What would you do if she booked a hotel room with him and said "We did nothing. It wasn't a date. Why don't you trust me. It was all innocent."?


----------



## The Middleman

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I've learned that you can't be passive in your relationships. You have to take an active role and if that means issuing edicts, commands, orders, etc. to each other then so be it.
> 
> If you want your so-called freedom then don't get married. Coming together as one necessarily means that you are giving a part of yourself to the other person.


Amen Brother


----------



## Baffled01

jameskimp said:


> You should have been like, it's not that you don't trust her, it's you don't trust him. Who knows what a stranger can do?
> 
> I agree. This would have been a better way to play this.
> 
> "Seems like an overreaction on both your parts.


I TOTALLY disagree. Aggressively objecting to your WIFE going on a date with an unknown man is NOT an overreaction.


----------



## FreedomRider

WOW, I am overwhealmed by the quanity and quality of the responses I have received.

I am still stuck as to what to do, yeah I know quit being a wimp and 'git er done', but I am leaning towards seeing a lawyer in a day or so. 

The wife still wants nothing to do with me, dosen't talk or even look at me in the house. I have deceided that I will ignor her too and see about finding the real cause of my problem. I think I was set up to get mad about the date so I can be the bad guy. I think she has other issues that are coming into play. A VAR or 2 seem like a good idea as she spends a lot of time out in her car. I would like to know if she is seeing another. She says she calls her friend a couple times a week but has never been anywhere besides the drive in that once with him.

I don't really know what do do about getting a D but I guess a good Lawyer will explain that part to me. I do admit I am worried about getting financially ruined, I am about 3 years from retirement and do not have much for it. The W and I had big plans about what we would do and how we could make it work once our 15 YO son is out of the house and we can relocate with me retireing. I forgot to mention that we had a son together, he will graduate High School in 3 years also. This mess will be really bad for him as he is a little bit autistic and can not deal with problems very well. I would like to have custity of him but he sure loves his mother too.

I guess to sum it up the W has shown no interest in fixing our problem, I have tried but to no avail. I guess it is time to talk to a Lawyer and get the process started.


----------



## lovelygirl

FreedomRider said:


> I think I was set up to get mad about the date so I can be the bad guy. .


Finally you're beginning to realize the evil inside of her.


----------



## FreedomRider

Yes, I think you are right. I am still haveing a problem with the fact I have loved her so much for so long. It is a "I see it but I don't believe it kind of a thing."


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Freedom, I don't know if it was a setup (that certainly has the ring of truth to it, tho') or not, but I know that the whole situation stinks. Please make sure that you protect yourself as best as possible (and that means doing what the lawyer says). Good luck and please come here when you need to talk or just vent.


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## FreedomRider

Believe me when I say I will be back. I really have been helped by all of you here.


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## thunderstruck

Kind of sounds like a set up, with her goal to maybe separate and test drive her new OM, while you were supposed to sit around with your thumb up your azz. 

But...you're blowing up her fantasy by not accepting this BS. Damn straight she's going to be angry with you for not playing along.


----------



## The Middleman

FreedomRider said:


> but I am leaning towards seeing a lawyer in a day or so.


I think at this point this is the right thing to do. If nothing else, it shows your wife that you are serious about this. Don't wait too long. I'm going to assume counseling is out since you haven't mentioned it.



FreedomRider said:


> The wife still wants nothing to do with me, dosen't talk or even look at me in the house. I have deceided that I will ignor her too and see about finding the real cause of my problem. I think I was set up to get mad about the date so I can be the bad guy. I think she has other issues that are coming into play. A VAR or 2 seem like a good idea as she spends a lot of time out in her car.


This is another good move on your part, do it sooner rather than later.


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## FreedomRider

I think counceling could help but with her total lack of effort I doubt it would help. I will mention it if I get the chance. THANKS for the reminder.


----------



## Badblood

Tall Average Guy said:


> So again, where is the line? Use staying the night at a hotel instead of going to a drive-in movie, and then tell me if there is a difference. If so, what is it?


So you're telling me that there is no difference between a movie and shacking up? TAG, you can make believe any scenerio, you wanna. How about is there a difference between a movie and going to church together? Or a movie and robbing a bank? I mean if you are going to make stuff up, then anything could be considered cheating. How about we stick to the OP's issues and not go off on a wild goose chase.


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## SadSamIAm

Badblood said:


> So you're telling me that there is no difference between a movie and shacking up? TAG, you can make believe any scenerio, you wanna. How about is there a difference between a movie and going to church together? Or a movie and robbing a bank? I mean if you are going to make stuff up, then anything could be considered cheating. How about we stick to the OP's issues and not go off on a wild goose chase.


I think you need to give it up Badblood.

I don't think you could get anyone to agree that they are OK with their spouse going to a drive in theater with an opposite sex friend that they haven't met. Yes, it is better than spending a night in a hotel, but certainly worse than going for coffee or even going to a normal theater.

Especially, given the fact that the OPs wife has stated she wouldn't go to a drive in theater because they are 'just for making out'!

Seriously Badblood, give it up!


----------



## Badblood

FreedomRider said:


> I think counceling could help but with her total lack of effort I doubt it would help. I will mention it if I get the chance. THANKS for the reminder.


Freedom rider, one thing. Think for yourself. Don't be stampeded by all of the posters who have vivid imaginations. Make SURE that you exhaust all avenues of communication, and have all of the facts , before you act, because you probably won't get a "do over", if you threaten her or accuse her again. I have divorced two wives, and it isn't pretty, and it isn't fun. So be prepared, reasonable and cautious in any discussion you have, whether you R or D. Good Luck!!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Badblood said:


> So you're telling me that there is no difference between a movie and shacking up? TAG, you can make believe any scenerio, you wanna. How about is there a difference between a movie and going to church together? Or a movie and robbing a bank? I mean if you are going to make stuff up, then anything could be considered cheating. How about we stick to the OP's issues and not go off on a wild goose chase.


But it is not "just" a movie. It was a drive-in movie (which entails a whole lot more privacy than a mere movie) that the wife had previous condemed as a place to only go to for making out. Oh and saw a movie directed toward exciting women. Those are the actual facts regarding the OPs issues.

Even with that, you still ignore my point - where is the line? If she went to the hotel with the guy, under these same circumstances, is he required to believe his wife because there is no proof of infidelity? Why or why not?

I don't understand the rest of the point. To me, church is much better than a drive-in, though I still would have issues with it. I would have real issues is she robbed a bank with another guy. But my point is that she dated another man and put a strain on the OPs trust in his wife. She was harming her marriage by doing that with another man. To state that he should not have strong feelings about that is strange.


----------



## Badblood

SadSamIAm said:


> I think you need to give it up Badblood.
> 
> I don't think you could get anyone to agree that they are OK with their spouse going to a drive in theater with an opposite sex friend that they haven't met. Yes, it is better than spending a night in a hotel, but certainly worse than going for coffee or even going to a normal theater.
> 
> Especially, given the fact that the OPs wife has stated she wouldn't go to a drive in theater because they are 'just for making out'!
> 
> Seriously Badblood, give it up!


Dude, I will do, what I will do, and say what I will say. You would do well to be a little more civil.


----------



## Badblood

Tall Average Guy said:


> But it is not "just" a movie. It was a drive-in movie (which entails a whole lot more privacy than a mere movie) that the wife had previous condemed as a place to only go to for making out. Oh and saw a movie directed toward exciting women. Those are the actual facts regarding the OPs issues.
> 
> Even with that, you still ignore my point - where is the line? If she went to the hotel with the guy, under these same circumstances, is he required to believe his wife because there is no proof of infidelity? Why or why not?
> 
> I don't understand the rest of the point. To me, church is much better than a drive-in, though I still would have issues with it. I would have real issues is she robbed a bank with another guy. But my point is that she dated another man and put a strain on the OPs trust in his wife. She was harming her marriage by doing that with another man. To state that he should not have strong feelings about that is strange.


I don't recall ever saying that the OP shouldn't have strong feelings about this problem. I also never said that the wife was blameless or inocent. FWIW, I think that something, other than just a movie is going on here. But where I differ, is that I am not going to invent make-believe scenerios, bogus "facts", or project my own issues, and present them to the OP as good advice. All of my advice has been aimed at getting the OP to do his homework, findout if anything happened, try to reason with his wife, and maybe salvage his marriage. And above all Stick to facts, not conjecture. I completely reject the mob mentality that sometimes happens here on TAM.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Badblood said:


> I completely reject the mob mentality that sometimes happens here on TAM.


I've seen the so-called mob mentality assessing the situation correctly more often than not.


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## Badblood

Freedon rider, you can either think for yourself or listen to the group. It's your marriage and your decision, and I wish you good luck with it. I'm not going to bandy words any more, it's a waste of my time.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

If he had the answers to his questions, he would not have come on a public forum seeking advice. Just sayin'...


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## FreedomRider

Badblood said:


> Freedon rider, you can either think for yourself or listen to the group. It's your marriage and your decision, and I wish you good luck with it. I'm not going to bandy words any more, it's a waste of my time.


BB, I do appreciate your words. I am weighing the words of all. Some I can easily dismiss others I give a lot of thought too. I DO respect your opinion as well as those that disagree with you. It is my life and my decision but I came here humbly asking for help from all.


----------



## HappyHubby

I had a SOMEWHAT similar situation with my wife, although I did not forbid her to go. In retrospect knowing what I know now and what I've learnt here on TAM about proper boundaries, it may not have been the wisest decision to allow it.

It involves a sort of mutual guy friend. He worked with me but seemed to be more interested in becoming friends with my wife. hmm. He also made out with his best friend's wife before this. He seems to have a thing for going after his friends wives -creep. We moved out of town and a few years later he was coming to town to see a concert but his friend wasnt able to make it so he asked my wife to go over facebook. My wife was really excited to see the band (not him Im pretty sure). Anyway we talked about it and how he's an adulterous ass and would do anything given the opportunity. But I trusted her and gave her my blessing and told her to be careful and dont give him any leeway if he acts inappropriately and stay in public. 

When she got back she reported they went out to dinner then to the concert and that was that and no inappropriateness. I didnt think anything of it. I wasnt insecure about her going for him over me. HAH. THAT would be a downgrade.

BUT given the way he was I think it was probably not appropriate.. not because of her but because of HIM.. and it did make me uncomfortable knowing that he was like that. Isnt that the point maybe? Given that the husband has a LEGITIMATE reason to be uncomfortable with the situation, the situation should be avoided. Should I have told her not to go? (sorry not trying to thread jack)


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## HappyHubby

I agree though.. drive-in.. alone with a guy. NO WAYYYYY. I would be mortified at the thought of my wife wanting to do that. THAT is not a social activity that is acceptable. 

Why couldnt she have invited a few girlfriends to come in the car too? maybe some single ones to hook up with this guy?


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## Unsure in Seattle

I don't know if you SHOULD have, Hubby but you would have been within your rights to do so...


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## costa200

HappyHubby said:


> I agree though.. drive-in.. alone with a guy. NO WAYYYYY. I would be mortified at the thought of my wife wanting to do that. THAT is not a social activity that is acceptable.
> 
> Why couldnt she have invited a few girlfriends to come in the car too? maybe some single ones to hook up with this guy?


That would soooo mess the moment up...



> Should I have told her not to go?


You took a risk, worked out ok... A bit of living on the edge.


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## HappyHubby

Also, it sounds like you two are playing a power game. If you have already backed down from your ultimatum as it sounds like you have then she better damn well back down too. Get her defenses down so you can talk about it. This doesn't sound like it should shoot straight to divorce.. it seems more likely about power in the relationship then it is about cheating. I think you need to say forget this incident and get to the deeper issues of her motivations for going defying you. Validate how she feels and get her to validate how you were hurt and uncomfortable with the situation. She MUST be willing to accept that this hurt your feelings. Its the only way you 2 can resolve this. MC perhaps?? professional help could force her to be more introspective and give a more fair analysis to her actions.


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## HappyHubby

Then you 2 can determine mutually agreeable, well defined boundaries for the both of you. You each agree to abide by them.. Put them in writing maybe so its clear. sign it.

There will only be continued conflict in the future if you both dont agree to what is right and wrong. 

Try and compromise maybe. ex: She wants to hang around with a guy friend without you? Okay, only in public. Only if you've met him. whatever works for both of yo and is fair and reasonable.


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## HappyHubby

And no romantic environments like drive-ins or hilltop overlooks watching the sunset. lol


----------



## Thorburn

I would like to focus on the behavior of your wife and you. This is my world as a professional counselor. I would not say to your wife that your reaction was over the top. I would say that it is a fairly typical reaction given the situation. There may be issues in the marriage but if we stay on topic of the wife going to a movie with a stranger I would want to question her motive given the information you have shared with us. Honestly, her reaction does not make sense if she is committed to the marriage. She seems ready for D and that in itself is showing no committment. She disregarded your oposition to her going to a drive in with another man. So what if you yelled or screamed an ultimatum. Most spouses would get over it but not those looking to justify leaving or those having an A. 

Many here jumped to conclusions. Why? Because we have been there and your wife's behavior is consistant with someone who is cheating. Could we be wrong? Of course. We are not you nor do we know your wife. In my case, I and those who knew my wife would say prior to her A's that she would never ever do something like that. Then the lies. 

In your case a wife who blantantly defies you and goes to a drive in with a stranger is way out of the norm. Who goes to a drive in with a stranger while you are out of town is way out of norm.

Personally, I can't separate what my wife has done over the years, but if my wife never had an A and had done what yours had done, it would have been the same to me as her having an A. If my wife would simply go have ice cream at this point with a "male" friend my marriage would be over and I do not have to give her an ultimatum, in fact I wouldn't say a dam* word at this point. I would file and that would be that. And if she said, "I can't believe you are D'ing me over ice cream", I wouldn't even give her a reply after what i have been through.

Yes, many of us here on TAM are jaded, but we have seen too much. My wife in 2010 made friends with a guy on FB. I did not see a problem with it. He was a church going married guy with children. His dad was a pastor. Within three days, he said "You are pretty" and that is all it took for a full blown sex crazed EA. 
Then in 2011 she met a guy on FB and had a PA.

So am i over the top when I say to her, "YOU WILL NEVER BE ON FACEBOOK AGAIN, OR I WILL DIVORCE YOUR AS*"?


----------



## Samus

I have been reading your thread Freedom and I feel bad for the way this was handled by your wife.

I can't blame you for getting upset. One doesn't expect there wife all of a sudden asking there husband to go to a movie with another man, it is just not normal and outside the boundary of a traditional marriage. 

I don't really care what anyone says, it is totally unacceptable and down right foolish to think that a wife can go out with another man in such an intimate way (movies is intimate) and not expect the husband to feel anyway uncomfortable. To call you insecure and controlling is very nasty and disgusting of her to treat you that way. 

This forum seems to have been very helpful to numerous folks and is a great resource for BS's. Even if you don't think or know if anything physical happened, at this point I wouldn't put it out of consideration. If this was me, I would be very upset and most likely leave the relationship, even if I have kids. I have a ZERO tolerance policy regarding any type of sexual affair/infidelity/EA and whatever else you want to call it. 

Your life just will not be the same. You will be haunted and questioning everytime if they slepted with each other. She coud of giving him a blowjob in the car, he could of eating her out. So many things, and I am sorry for being so straightforward but I want you to understand how serious this issue is, not only the fact that they could of done those sexual things, but also the fact that she blatantly ignored your request (a request that frankly should of never happened, because your wife should of known better). 

My 2 cents friend, good luck and if I were you protect yourself, and leave the relationship. It is just not worth the heartaches and pain, some folks here have been able to R, but honestly it is a very very difficult road and I personally wouldn't R with anyone who cheated on me Emotionally or Physically.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

HappyHubby said:


> I had a SOMEWHAT similar situation with my wife, although I did not forbid her to go. In retrospect knowing what I know now and what I've learnt here on TAM about proper boundaries, it may not have been the wisest decision to allow it.
> 
> It involves a sort of mutual guy friend. He worked with me but seemed to be more interested in becoming friends with my wife. hmm. He also made out with his best friend's wife before this. He seems to have a thing for going after his friends wives -creep. We moved out of town and a few years later he was coming to town to see a concert but his friend wasnt able to make it so he asked my wife to go over facebook. My wife was really excited to see the band (not him Im pretty sure). Anyway we talked about it and how he's an adulterous ass and would do anything given the opportunity. But I trusted her and gave her my blessing and told her to be careful and dont give him any leeway if he acts inappropriately and stay in public.
> 
> When she got back she reported they went out to dinner then to the concert and that was that and no inappropriateness. I didnt think anything of it. I wasnt insecure about her going for him over me. HAH. THAT would be a downgrade.
> 
> BUT given the way he was I think it was probably not appropriate.. not because of her but because of HIM.. and it did make me uncomfortable knowing that he was like that. Isnt that the point maybe? Given that the husband has a LEGITIMATE reason to be uncomfortable with the situation, the situation should be avoided. Should I have told her not to go? (sorry not trying to thread jack)


That's a rhetorical question, right? Because if you've been hanging out in this forum (or this thread) you already know the answer.


----------



## Shaggy

Get a VAR today (two of them) and some Velcro. Attach one under he car seat with the Velcro. In a couple of days swap it out fr the second one. Drive away from home, get a coffee and listen to it.


----------



## OldWolf57

given the way she is acting now, it sure looks like a setup. She is not talking to you, and NOT even looking at you.

Word to the wise, go over the financial when she finish with a fine tooth comb.

Also try to learn all you can on this guy.

Since he has a lil shop, she may see a better retirement with him.


----------



## Badblood

FreedomRider said:


> BB, I do appreciate your words. I am weighing the words of all. Some I can easily dismiss others I give a lot of thought too. I DO respect your opinion as well as those that disagree with you. It is my life and my decision but I came here humbly asking for help from all.


Thanks, Freedomrider, I hope it works out for you. I think that if you glean some of the posts, you can find some bits of useful info to help you with your situation. Happyhubby has made some excellent posts. Well reasoned, thoughtful and based on facts not fiction. The rest is simply the TAM version of the Salem Witch Trials.


----------



## warlock07

FreedomRider said:


> WOW, I am overwhealmed by the quanity and quality of the responses I have received.
> 
> I am still stuck as to what to do, yeah I know quit being a wimp and 'git er done', but I am leaning towards seeing a lawyer in a day or so.
> 
> The wife still wants nothing to do with me, dosen't talk or even look at me in the house. I have deceided that I will ignor her too and see about finding the real cause of my problem. I think I was set up to get mad about the date so I can be the bad guy. I think she has other issues that are coming into play. A VAR or 2 seem like a good idea as she spends a lot of time out in her car. I would like to know if she is seeing another. She says she calls her friend a couple times a week but has never been anywhere besides the drive in that once with him.
> 
> I don't really know what do do about getting a D but I guess a good Lawyer will explain that part to me. I do admit I am worried about getting financially ruined, I am about 3 years from retirement and do not have much for it. The W and I had big plans about what we would do and how we could make it work once our 15 YO son is out of the house and we can relocate with me retireing. I forgot to mention that we had a son together, he will graduate High School in 3 years also. This mess will be really bad for him as he is a little bit autistic and can not deal with problems very well. I would like to have custity of him but he sure loves his mother too.
> 
> I guess to sum it up the W has shown no interest in fixing our problem, I have tried but to no avail. I guess it is time to talk to a Lawyer and get the process started.


phone records?


----------



## warlock07

I am guessing she will be checking for greener pastures during the separation.


----------



## Badblood

warlock07 said:


> I am guessing she will be checking for greener pastures during the separation.


If she does, that would pretty much answer all of the questions, wouldn't it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Wazza said:


> If it was a social activity and clearly innocent, I could see your point.
> 
> Does the point that they were alone, at a place wife regards as a make-out place, affect your thinking at all, or is that still just a social occasion?
> 
> Supposing, hypothetically, the husband was able to confirm they had had intercourse at the drive-in. If she wanted to go, alone, with the same guy, again, would it still be just a social occasion?
> 
> Suppose they didn't have intercourse, but she blew him. Or they kissed. Or they held each other. At what point does it cease to be just a social occasion?
> 
> Trying to understand where you draw the line of crossing into infidelity. And whether you see any grey areas.
> 
> Is infidelity, against the husband's wishes, a valid reason to end a marriage?
> 
> I posted earlier that if it was my wife, in the circumstances described, I would probably divorce her, and I laid out the reasons why, based on her previous infidelity. Am I being controlling?


No. It means you have boundaries for your marriage. It means you have self respect and demand that you wife be respectful.

I mean some folks settle for less. Which us their right. Yes it is hard to fathom.


----------



## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> Before making wild accusations, ask yourself, What can I actually prove?


I think he can "trust" his wife in this enough to know that it is likely that she did go on a date with this guy against his wishes and that she lied in doing so.

It is possible that none of this happened at all and the wife made this up.

The remedy is the same.

Also by these definitions a man who does not wish to be a cuckold is insecure because he feels threatend by his wife having sex with other men.
This dating thing is just a level of this.

This same man would be jealous for his wife having sex with other men.

A man who would divorce his wife for having sex would also be controlling.

But again why would proving she had sex with anyone be the boundary? Is the boundary documented proof of sex? Really? Anyhting else is ok? Wow.

But where are these new boundaries. Is it ok for a wife or husband to date? Calling it hanging out with friends all you want but this is dating.


----------



## Samus

Personally and I think universally it is a betrayal when your spouse goes out with another man period; if he is not someone you know on an intimate trip to a drive in movie. 

Badbone as much as you are playing devil's advocate man, I think you find it reasonable for a wife to go out with another man that is not the husband. You will find many will most likely disagree with you and your unfair and biased responses to TAM members saying that we are collectively and unfairly assessing the situation seems to be an incorrect observation on your part. You have your opinion but don't give false hope man, his wife is cheating on him automatically just by going out with another man that is more then a friend. 

If I asked my wife not to go with another man to the movies and she does it anyways, then that man is not her friend, that is total bullsht. Come on stop being naive. She totally put her husbands feelings aside and went along with this friend over her husbands wishes. That to me does not define a friend, that defines an EA or someone that she is interested in more then friend material.


----------



## Badblood

Ent, pardner, I NEVER said , in any way , that what his wife did was OK. I NEVER said that he wasn't within his rights, to be upset about it. What I object to is the mob-mentality (stone the cheater), all of these imaginary, made-up scenerios or "possible" reasons, and over-reactions. There is such a thing as proportion.


----------



## Badblood

Samus said:


> Personally and I think universally it is betrayal when your spouse goes out with another man period if he is not someone you know on an intimate trip to a drive in movie.
> 
> Badbone as much as you are playing devil's advocate man, I think you find is reasonable for a wife to go out with another man that is not the husband. You will find many will most likely disagree with you and your unfair and biased responses to TAM members saying that we are collectively and unfairly assessing the situation seems to be an incorrect observation on your part. You have your opinion but don't give false hope man, his wife is cheating on him automatically just by going out with another man that is more then a friend.
> 
> If I asked my wife not to go with another man to the movies and she does it anyways, then that man is not her friend, that is total bullsht. Come on stop being naive. She totally put her husbands feelings aside and went along with this friend over her husbands wishes. That to me does not define a friend, that defines an EA or someone that she is interested in more then friend material.


Dude this is a prime example . Samus, show me, in any of my posts, where I ever said that what she did was reasonable. You can't, because I didn't. Don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.


----------



## Entropy3000

lovelygirl said:


> Let's see what you've got to say when he asks you to go to drive-in movie with any of his female friends. Imagine your husband and this female friend in the middle of all the couples making out and getting private while watching the movie.
> How would it be normal for your husband to be there with his female friend?
> 
> *EDIT: I just read your thread where you said you cheated.
> This explains your thoughts about low boundaries in marriage.*


:slap:

Well without being harsh one would hope anyone who cheats to whatever degree would have tighter boundaries because ... they need to.


----------



## Badblood

Entropy3000 said:


> So we had a long drive after the dinner. We had a bit to drink. So my firend and I got a motel room.
> 
> Since we are friends we shared a room. No big deal. No reason for insecurity. We are just close friends.
> 
> It gave us some real time to just talk. We talked all night. Multiple times really. She gets me like no one else can.
> 
> But don't tell me not to get a motel room with my female friend. That is controlling.


See? yet another imaginary scenerio, based on nothing but Ent's projections and issues, having nothing to do with thew OP's problem except to increase his anxiety and stress.


----------



## Entropy3000

FreedomRider said:


> WOW, I am overwhealmed by the quanity and quality of the responses I have received.
> 
> I am still stuck as to what to do, yeah I know quit being a wimp and 'git er done', but I am leaning towards seeing a lawyer in a day or so.
> 
> The wife still wants nothing to do with me, dosen't talk or even look at me in the house. I have deceided that I will ignor her too and see about finding the real cause of my problem. I think I was set up to get mad about the date so I can be the bad guy. I think she has other issues that are coming into play. A VAR or 2 seem like a good idea as she spends a lot of time out in her car. I would like to know if she is seeing another. She says she calls her friend a couple times a week but has never been anywhere besides the drive in that once with him.
> 
> I don't really know what do do about getting a D but I guess a good Lawyer will explain that part to me. I do admit I am worried about getting financially ruined, I am about 3 years from retirement and do not have much for it. The W and I had big plans about what we would do and how we could make it work once our 15 YO son is out of the house and we can relocate with me retireing. I forgot to mention that we had a son together, he will graduate High School in 3 years also. This mess will be really bad for him as he is a little bit autistic and can not deal with problems very well. I would like to have custity of him but he sure loves his mother too.
> 
> I guess to sum it up the W has shown no interest in fixing our problem, I have tried but to no avail. I guess it is time to talk to a Lawyer and get the process started.


This seems to support that this was a ploy. A attempt to leave the marriage with the minimum feeling of guilt and fuss. So this could have been contrived on her part or she has found another man.

Eiether way. You have to get with a lawayer.

Also as some have suggested, do not trust the finances and make sure she has not been putting money away.

If she would don this she might do anything.


----------



## theroad

HappyHubby said:


> I had a SOMEWHAT similar situation with my wife, although I did not forbid her to go. In retrospect knowing what I know now and what I've learnt here on TAM about proper boundaries, it may not have been the wisest decision to allow it.
> 
> It involves a sort of mutual guy friend. He worked with me but seemed to be more interested in becoming friends with my wife. hmm. He also made out with his best friend's wife before this. He seems to have a thing for going after his friends wives -creep. We moved out of town and a few years later he was coming to town to see a concert but his friend wasnt able to make it so he asked my wife to go over facebook. My wife was really excited to see the band (not him Im pretty sure). Anyway we talked about it and how he's an adulterous ass and would do anything given the opportunity. But I trusted her and gave her my blessing and told her to be careful and dont give him any leeway if he acts inappropriately and stay in public.
> 
> When she got back she reported they went out to dinner then to the concert and that was that and no inappropriateness. I didnt think anything of it. I wasnt insecure about her going for him over me. HAH. THAT would be a downgrade.
> 
> BUT given the way he was I think it was probably not appropriate.. not because of her but because of HIM.. and it did make me uncomfortable knowing that he was like that. Isnt that the point maybe? Given that the husband has a LEGITIMATE reason to be uncomfortable with the situation, the situation should be avoided. Should I have told her not to go? (sorry not trying to thread jack)


Should I have told her not to go?

I think you are crazy to need to ask that.

You should of put your foot down and told your wife no.

THe OP did not know anything about his WW OM. He knew that he was taking her to a drive in to see a movie with story about male stripper.

The location, the movie theme, the mood set, all to close to the rear seat of the car, WW going on a date with an OM. Plus see refused to do this with her BH.

You knew that this "friend" was a predator OM with a past history of doing friends wives.

You let him take your wife on a date to a concert. Where it is common for people to get high, loss inhibitions.

You let yourself believe that he had an extra ticket. That ticket was bought with the sole purpose to work your wifes pant's off. The ticket going to waste is one of the oldest plays in the book.

Proof that he tried to wine and dine your wife he took her to a dinner before the concert. I have known many people that go to concerts and they never go to dinner before or after.

I would not be shocked that the only concert the OM and your wife went to the "concert" at the Holiday Inn, room 69.

So was there an affair in your marriage? Who was the BS?


----------



## Entropy3000

Tall Average Guy said:


> But it is not "just" a movie. It was a drive-in movie (which entails a whole lot more privacy than a mere movie) that the wife had previous condemed as a place to only go to for making out. Oh and saw a movie directed toward exciting women. Those are the actual facts regarding the OPs issues.
> 
> Even with that, you still ignore my point - where is the line? If she went to the hotel with the guy, under these same circumstances, is he required to believe his wife because there is no proof of infidelity? Why or why not?
> 
> I don't understand the rest of the point. To me, church is much better than a drive-in, though I still would have issues with it. I would have real issues is she robbed a bank with another guy. But my point is that she dated another man and put a strain on the OPs trust in his wife. She was harming her marriage by doing that with another man. To state that he should not have strong feelings about that is strange.


Church is better than the drive-in but indeed I would have a problem with my wife going to church with another man alone.

Especially if she lied about it and did it against my wishes. Some folks want to minimize these parts.


----------



## Samus

Badblood said:


> Dude this is a prime example . Samus, show me, in any of my posts, where I ever said that what she did was reasonable. You can't, because I didn't. Don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.


I should of been more clearer BB, sorry about that. What I meant to say is some of your post on this particular case comes across as supportive of other male friends to be completely acceptable and ok and wives can go to movies with these so called male friends without there husbands being uncomfortable and inquisitive. At least that is how I read your post. Sorry if I misunderstood it. 

I personally disagree with that and that is my opinion. To each his own.


----------



## Entropy3000

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I've seen the so-called mob mentality assessing the situation correctly more often than not.


They called Son of Sam crazy after all.


----------



## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> Freedon rider, you can either think for yourself or listen to the group. It's your marriage and your decision, and I wish you good luck with it. I'm not going to bandy words any more, it's a waste of my time.


Fallacy.

He can also think for himself and listen to the groups advice and use that brain 2.0 of his.

When I see a thread like this I often wonder if someone is not logging in with more than one account and playing both sides against the middle.

Good times I guess.


----------



## HappyHubby

For some reason if we make the assumption for a moment that it was in fact 100% pre-planned ploy to get out of marriage without guilt... it seems so unsastifactory to have her plan succeed like that. You cant make someone stay that doesnt want to but I wouldnt want her to get off that easy. 

I would want her to own up to it all at least to be able to say to her 'See. It was so obvious. Stop being immature and a coward and talk to me straight about it like a grown up. Dont weasel your way out of an (18 yr? - I forgot) marriage'. Once its all on the table... who knows - maybe it could be turned around for R. maybe not.

At the same time I would be talking to a lawyer to protect myself


----------



## Entropy3000

HappyHubby said:


> I had a SOMEWHAT similar situation with my wife, although I did not forbid her to go. In retrospect knowing what I know now and what I've learnt here on TAM about proper boundaries, it may not have been the wisest decision to allow it.
> 
> It involves a sort of mutual guy friend. He worked with me but seemed to be more interested in becoming friends with my wife. hmm. He also made out with his best friend's wife before this. He seems to have a thing for going after his friends wives -creep. We moved out of town and a few years later he was coming to town to see a concert but his friend wasnt able to make it so he asked my wife to go over facebook. My wife was really excited to see the band (not him Im pretty sure). Anyway we talked about it and how he's an adulterous ass and would do anything given the opportunity. But I trusted her and gave her my blessing and told her to be careful and dont give him any leeway if he acts inappropriately and stay in public.
> 
> When she got back she reported they went out to dinner then to the concert and that was that and no inappropriateness. I didnt think anything of it. I wasnt insecure about her going for him over me. HAH. THAT would be a downgrade.
> 
> BUT given the way he was I think it was probably not appropriate.. not because of her but because of HIM.. and it did make me uncomfortable knowing that he was like that. Isnt that the point maybe? Given that the husband has a LEGITIMATE reason to be uncomfortable with the situation, the situation should be avoided. Should I have told her not to go? (sorry not trying to thread jack)


Yes you should have told he not to go on a date with another man. Especially with what you already knew.

So how are things going now? As far as you know?


----------



## Badblood

Samus said:


> I should of been more clearer BB, sorry about that. What I meant to say is some of your post on this particular case comes across as supportive of other male friends to be completely acceptable and ok and wives can go to movies with these so called male friends without there husbands being uncomfortable and inquisitive. At least that is how I read your post. Sorry if I misunderstood it.
> 
> I personally disagree with that and that is my opinion. To each his own.


It's OK, Dude. But I don't know where you ever got that idea. I feel and have said that the OP has a right to know what happened, that the Wife was wrong for doing it, and it was, by no means acceptible, but that the OP use reason, factual evidence, and caution to deal with it.


----------



## HappyHubby

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes you should have told he not to go on a date with another man. Especially with what you already knew.
> 
> So how are things going now? As far as you know?


Oh just fine as far as I know. She was never interested in that guy and has never cheated (again as far as I know). I know I havent (and with opportunity). 

She had one other guy tell her that he likes her.. she told me right away as he was writing her on facebook. I read the convo with her as she was engaged in it. she didnt reciprocate. and I told her what to write back and she did. he apologized and hasnt contacted her much since. 

If she has ever cheated Im none the wiser. I'm not so naive to think it couldn't happen but will not worry about it without cause.


----------



## Badblood

Entropy3000 said:


> Fallacy.
> 
> He can also think for himself and listen to the groups advice and use that brain 2.0 of his.
> 
> When I see thread like this I often wonder if someone is not logging in with more than one account and playing both sides against the middle.


OR...I've got an idea!! How about we stick to the problem as the OP has presented it. Not project our own issues onto him, not verbally stone his wife, not make up imaginary scenerios, and try to deal with his specific situation?


----------



## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> Ent, pardner, I NEVER said , in any way , that what his wife did was OK. I NEVER said that he wasn't within his rights, to be upset about it. What I object to is the mob-mentality (stone the cheater), all of these imaginary, made-up scenerios or "possible" reasons, and over-reactions. There is such a thing as proportion.


Dude. Me thinks you protest too much sir. What is your agenda here?

You are adamant about opposite sex friends not being slaves and on and on. You just have a view of a more open marriage than many others. You have that right.

No you do not see stone the cheater. You see people saying that they beleive that dating another man, lying to your husband and not fighting for your marriage is wrong. 

This is not again about projecting anything. What he knows is enough. You juts flat are pushing an agenda of a more open marriage where dating others is ok.

I don't know your situation. I don't know if you had tighter boundaries if it would have saved your marriage or not. But while it may not be your agenda what you suggest is the kind of openess that is pushed on pro-cheater websites. This is my view anyway and I have a right to it.
I bet your view would be well accepted with a different mob with a different agenda. I am not attacking you. I am being direct. Just like you.


----------



## KanDo

Badblood said:


> OR...I've got an idea!! How about we stick to the problem as the OP has presented it. Not project our own issues onto him, not verbally stone his wife, not make up imaginary scenerios, and try to deal with his specific situation?



THERE ARE SEVERAL POST ALREADY THAT HAVE DONE JUST THIS. We don't have to add to the facts.

1. The wife proposed a date with another man. (there can be no argument here. this was a date)
2. The OP informed her this was unacceptable and set a steep consequence.
2. Wife agreed to comply, then deceived her husband to go out on a date
3. She has no remorse or guilt about it all.

We know all we need to know. ( iam confident there is way more, as I posted earlier) The OP needs to file, if he wants any chance of a normal relationship. Otherwise, there are no boundaries. If she doesn't wake up and attempt reconcilliation, their marriage was already irrepairably broken.

Again, I am sorry you are here. Investigate and you will find other things. File and hope for the best.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Badblood said:


> Thanks, Freedomrider, I hope it works out for you. I think that if you glean some of the posts, you can find some bits of useful info to help you with your situation. Happyhubby has made some excellent posts. Well reasoned, thoughtful and based on facts not fiction. The rest is simply the TAM version of the Salem Witch Trials.


Badblood, while I don't always agree with you I've always enjoyed your contribution to this forum. In fact, many times you've gotten me to see things from a perspective that I might've missed otherwise. No one is browbeating Freedom Rider - we're just giving our opinions regarding his situation. Does that make us right? No. Does it make us wrong? No. However, you seem to think that we are. 

What's happening? I don't recall any one poster going out of their way to offend you.


----------



## Entropy3000

KanDo said:


> THERE ARE SEVERAL POST ALREADY THAT HAVE DONE JUST THIS. We don't have to add to the facts.
> 
> 1. The wife proposed a date with another man. (there can be no argument here. this was a date)
> 2. The OP informed her this was unacceptable and set a steep consequence.
> 2. Wife agreed to comply, then deceived her husband to go out on a date
> 3. She has no remorse or guilt about it all.
> 
> We know all we need to know. ( iam confident there is way more, as I posted earlier) The OP needs to file, if he wants any chance of a normal relationship. Otherwise, there are no boundaries. If she doesn't wake up and attempt reconcilliation, their marriage was already irrepairably broken.
> 
> Again, I am sorry you are here. Investigate and you will find other things. File and hope for the best.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Badblood

KanDo said:


> THERE ARE SEVERAL POST ALREADY THAT HAVE DONE JUST THIS. We don't have to add to the facts.
> 
> 1. The wife proposed a date with another man. (there can be no argument here. this was a date)
> 2. The OP informed her this was unacceptable and set a steep consequence.
> 2. Wife agreed to comply, then deceived her husband to go out on a date
> 3. She has no remorse or guilt about it all.
> 
> We know all we need to know. ( iam confident there is way more, as I posted earlier) The OP needs to file, if he wants any chance of a normal relationship. Otherwise, there are no boundaries. If she doesn't wake up and attempt reconcilliation, their marriage was already irrepairably broken.
> 
> Again, I am sorry you are here. Investigate and you will find other things. File and hope for the best.


For the most part , I like this. It's dealing with the OP's issues and not making up phony horror stories about what MIGHT be going on inside the wife's mind. Or Imaginary scenerios where she goes from a woman with poor boundaries to some kind of evil Machiavellian homewrecker. It is reasonable and doesn't project the issues of the poster. good post!!


----------



## Badblood

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Badblood, while I don't always agree with you I've always enjoyed your contribution to this forum. In fact, many times you've gotten me to see things from a perspective that I might've missed otherwise. No one is browbeating Freedom Rider - we're just giving our opinions regarding his situation. Does that make us right? No. Does it make us wrong? No. However, you seem to think that we are.
> 
> What's happening? I don't recall any one poster going out of their way to offend you.


Actually Count I am ALWAYS offended, when people gang up on somebody who cannot defend themselves. The wife isn't here, so I would like the posters to consider that there is another side of the story we are not getting, and that some circumspection would be nice, instead of rigid hostility. That is all.


----------



## Badblood

Entropy3000 said:


> Dude. Me thinks you protest too much sir. What is your agenda here?
> 
> You are adamant about opposite sex friends not being slaves and on and on. You just have a view of a more open marriage than many others. You have that right.
> 
> No you do not see stone the cheater. You see people saying that they beleive that dating another man, lying to your husband and not fighting for your marriage is wrong.
> 
> This is not again about projecting anything. What he knows is enough. You juts flat are pushing an agenda of a more open marriage where dating others is ok.
> 
> I don't know your situation. I don't know if you had tighter boundaries if it would have saved your marriage or not. But while it may not be your agenda what you suggest is the kind of openess that is pushed on pro-cheater websites. This is my view anyway and I have a right to it.
> I bet your view would be well accepted with a different mob with a different agenda. I am not attacking you. I am being direct. Just like you.


Ent, My agenda is mine, and none of your business. Your agenda is yours and none of mine. You seen to have very real problems with the idea of two adult people being in a relationship and each making their own decisions? I am not in favor of an open marriage or relationship at all, in fact quite the contrary. I am in favor of having an exclusive relationship based upon mature, adult, intelligent, love and respect. I don't want to be my wife's keeper or master or to dominate anybody at any time. The only thing "open", I want is communication. But I will not condemn without evidence, or advocate punishment without as much knowledge as I can get. If you would read some of my posts, you would know where I'm coming from. My ex wife was a victim of severe child abuse, which her family hid from the world, and continues to hide. She became involved in a very nasty perverted affair with an older man That consisted of some rather disgusting role-playing. I won't go into it any farther. I found out, tried to R but she wasn't able to make the effort until after I had filed for divorce. She then attempted suicide and very nearly died (paramedics said that she was within 5 or 10 minutes ) and was committed. I have had all of the issues that most BS's have, plus having to deal with a bat-sh*t crazy wife. But even so, I am not an advocate of anything that smacks of bullying.


----------



## Badblood

BTW, I'm a former Marine Officer and have spent most of my adult life either preparing or in combat. I know how to give and take orders, but I do not choose to do so in my private life.


----------



## happyman64

If you guys keep going back and forth with each other and staying off topic there will be no place left for FreedomRider to post!!!


----------



## Badblood

I agree. I would like it if he would give us an update.


----------



## lovelygirl

Entropy3000 said:


> :slap:
> 
> Well without being harsh one would hope anyone who cheats to whatever degree would have tighter boundaries because ... they need to.


Ent, I didn't say one who cheats doesn't need to have boundaries. You got it wrong.
I was wondering why she thought going out with OSF so often is okay but when I read her thread, I then thought "Oh well...there's nothing you can expect from a cheater. It's obvious that they think the way they do." 
Sure, it's expected for them to tighten their boundaries, but in reality and unfortunately it doesn't really happen.


----------



## lovelygirl

Badblood said:


> Actually Count I am ALWAYS offended, when people gang up on somebody who cannot defend themselves. *The wife isn't here, so I would like the posters to consider that there is another side of the story* we are not getting, and that some circumspection would be nice, instead of rigid hostility. That is all.


There are always two sides of the story but we have only the OP's side and we will give replies according to that. 

If we go by your logic the forum would be inactive by now and people wouldn't give opinions ...because ...well..there are two sides of the story! 

Does it mean we have to wait for the OP's wife to open an account and tell her side of the story? 
Sure that would be a good idea but it doesn't mean that without her this thread should be inactive.

*We have enough evidence about the fact that she couldn't care less about the OP's feelings*. She showed the utmost disrespect. 
Why would her side of the story be important at this point? 
Not worth it.


----------



## Badblood

Entropy3000 said:


> Rather than reenact A Few Good Men then lets just say, that we have both served our country with distinction and realize that marriage has its own challenges. Marriage is more of a partnership but I agree that some people you just know you could go to war with and trust your life to them. That is who your marriage partner needs to be.
> 
> So let the journey be yours. Life is too short.
> 
> Now back to the thread.
> 
> It seems that their relationship is headed down the road she has chosen.


Very possibly, but if I were the OP I would do my level best to reach some kind of understanding, for their kid"s sake if not for anything else. From his posts she seems bent on D, but who knows she just might be pissed and needs to calm down and think more rationally. The OP has said that he wants to R, so I'm approaching it from that perspective.


----------



## Badblood

lovelygirl said:


> There are always two sides of the story but we have only the OP's side and we will give replies according to that.
> 
> If we go by your logic the forum would be inactive by now and people wouldn't give opinions ...because ...well..there are two sides of the story!
> 
> Does it mean we have to wait for the OP's wife to open an account and tell her side of the story?
> Sure that would be a good idea but it doesn't mean that without her this thread should be inactive.
> 
> *We have enough evidence about the fact that she couldn't care less about the OP's feelings*. She showed the utmost disrespect.
> Why would her side of the story be important at this point?
> Not worth it.


No, LG, it means that when reading the thread and giving advice , you keep in mind that you are getting an incomplete story, and advise accordingly.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

If she wants her side heard then she needs to come and tell it to us. Until then, I'm assuming that OP is telling the truth as best as he knows it.


----------



## Chris Taylor

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> If she wants her side heard then she needs to come and tell it to us. Until then, I'm assuming that OP is telling the truth as best as he knows it.


She won't.

The bigger problem is that she won't give her side of the story to FF. She has shut down on him, leaving him (and us) to think the worst of the situation.

If FF was relaying what his wife was telling us, we could have a clearer picture of what is going through her mind.

As for the back and forth in here, I think it's important for FF to hear both sides from us (in a civil manner, please). It's up to him whether or not to end the marriage and has to weigh the benefits/consequences of doing that.


----------



## Badblood

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> If she wants her side heard then she needs to come and tell it to us. Until then, I'm assuming that OP is telling the truth as best as he knows it.


I don't assume anything, Count, I just try to err on the side of caution. I do however wish we had more info to go on.


----------



## Halien

FreedomRider said:


> BB, I do appreciate your words. I am weighing the words of all. Some I can easily dismiss others I give a lot of thought too. I DO respect your opinion as well as those that disagree with you. It is my life and my decision but I came here humbly asking for help from all.


Please, let's try to keep the discussion balanced, non-accusing, discussing varying opinions as the OP has asked, without dominating or derailing the discussion with accusations against each other. I'm deleting a couple of posts where specific members are addressed, in respect of the OP's discussion at hand, but I appreciate the attempts of several to keep the discussion on track.


----------



## sandc

Is the OP even around any more? My mailbox is filling up with a lot of sidebar banter.


----------



## FreedomRider

Yes, I am still around. We are still in the home together. Still avoiding each other. She even avoids eye contact with me. I called the best Lawyer in the area for a consult today, he recomends councelling as I am at financial risk with her being unemployed and a 15 yo at home. I am getting a VAR today to put in her car as she is going to stay with a girl friend Tues and Wed as she needs to 'get out of town' for a while. WTF? she needs to get out of town? It is a friend that she has known for 20+ years and I know her too. She might not be the best to get advice from as she cheated on her husband for at least 15 of the last 20 years, moved away the last 5 years. REALLY I am not making this up!

I want to save the marriage but it sure does not look good. Perhaps the VAR will give me some info as to what I can do as she isn't talking to me. If she confesses some heinious crime so be it but I am really just wanting to know what is on her mind and how she feels.


----------



## happyman64

FreedomRider

Is she so belligerent that you cannot ask her why would go stay and consult with a friend that is a known cheater?

Why talk to someone that has blown their own marriage up so well?


----------



## walkonmars

Goes without sayin' that it's your life and you must find peace if not happiness within yourself. Counciling sounds reasonable at this point - as long as BOTH go into same with the good intentions of strengthening the marriage - instead of 'looking to validate' a certain position that shows the other is a louse. 

Personally, I would not let financial risk play any role in this decision -


----------



## KanDo

Rider,

Counseling requires the parties to be interested in saving the marriage and willing to work on it. You MIGHT get to that point when your wife sees that you are serious. Right now she sees you as a spineless doormat who spouts meaningless consequences. I sincerely hope you can bring this all back together. I think it is a _fait accompli_. She has already made her exit plan and is assuaging her concious with this charade. 

Unfortunately you really don't have a choice. You need to file, do the 180 and if she wakes up, great. If not. Move on.


----------



## Badblood

FR, perhaps you can have your attorney talk to her about the counselling? It will do two things: It will let her know that you aren't a doormat, but will show her that you are serious about trying to work it out. Just a thought.


----------



## Badblood

walkonmars said:


> Goes without sayin' that it's your life and you must find peace if not happiness within yourself. Counciling sounds reasonable at this point - as long as BOTH go into same with the good intentions of strengthening the marriage - instead of 'looking to validate' a certain position that shows the other is a louse.
> 
> Personally, I would not let financial risk play any role in this decision -


I like your thoughts on the counseling, WOM But disagree about the financial thing. Unless Freedomrider is independently wealthy, the financial aspect must be a major consideration.


----------



## walkonmars

Badblood said:


> I like your thoughts on the counseling, WOM But disagree about the financial thing. Unless Freedomrider is independently wealthy, the financial aspect must be a major consideration.



Yeah - think I know what you mean. I'm just sayin' that I wouldn't stay in a bad or intolerable situation b/c of finances. As long as I'm physically fit - I'd just as soon live in a hovel and eat spam and noodles as a steady diet. (of course I'm not in that position - so I can talk big!)


----------



## Badblood

I can get behind that idea. WOM. Actually I kind of like Spam and also noodles (if they are fresh). When I was at Pearl, I noticed that the Hawaiians ate the **** out of it (spam)so I tried it and bought a cookbook with spam recipes in it. I make some spring rolls that are killer.


----------



## jnj express

It always boils down to misery vs money doesn't it.

For some greenback dollars, you are gonna spend the rest of your life in misery

Try this----go seperation---on your own, not legal, and freeze her out of the money---don't give her a penny for anything---including her trip to her GF's----take away the car, so she doesn't have transportation, and cancel any CC she is on----give her a taste of reality and her own medicine

It's just totally sh*tty the betrayed gets cheated on, gets ripped apart, and then cuz the betrayed did all the work, finance wise, to make/keep life good for the family,---the betrayed also gets to pay-------

Betrayed's just really can't/don't win!!!!!!!!


----------



## walkonmars

BB maybe if you share that recipe with FreedomRider it'll be just the impetus he needs. He's about ready.


----------



## The bishop

jnj express said:


> It always boils down to misery vs money doesn't it.
> 
> For some greenback dollars, you are gonna spend the rest of your life in misery
> 
> Try this----go seperation---on your own, not legal, and freeze her out of the money---don't give her a penny for anything---including her trip to her GF's----take away the car, so she doesn't have transportation, and cancel any CC she is on----give her a taste of reality and her own medicine
> 
> It's just totally sh*tty the betrayed gets cheated on, gets ripped apart, and then cuz the betrayed did all the work, finance wise, to make/keep life good for the family,---the betrayed also gets to pay-------
> Betrayed's just really can't/don't win!!!!!!!!


:iagree:

Looks like you are heading for the D anyway... make it uncomfortable and drag it out.


----------



## theroad

Badblood said:


> No, LG, it means that when reading the thread and giving advice , you keep in mind that you are getting an incomplete story, and advise accordingly.


No affair is unique.

You don't need to have the WS come here to give their side.

A WS in the fog has rewritten their marriage history and justified their affair.

It is point less to say how her BH did not meet her needs. They bad state of their marriage was due them both neglecting it.

Going out and banging and OM is not going to make her marriage healthy. She made the wrong decision.

Your being in the Marines is pointless. People disagreeing with you has nothing to do with taking or giving orders.

You want to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.

Only testimony that is admissable in a court counts with you.

Fine for you but the courts don't care much about infidelity anymore.

Don't need a court to tell right from wrong, truth from lie.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

FreedomRider said:


> She even avoids eye contact with me.


My lying cheating ex couldn't look me in the eyes either.


----------



## costa200

> It is a friend that she has known for 20+ years and I know her too. She might not be the best to get advice from as she cheated on her husband for at least 15 of the last 20 years, moved away the last 5 years. REALLY I am not making this up!


Pretty interesting choice of a friend that one. Revealing too...


----------



## Malaise

FreedomRider said:


> Yes, I am still around. We are still in the home together. Still avoiding each other. She even avoids eye contact with me. I called the best Lawyer in the area for a consult today, he recomends councelling as I am at financial risk with her being unemployed and a 15 yo at home. *I am getting a VAR today to put in her car as she is going to stay with a girl friend Tues and Wed as she needs to 'get out of town' for a while. WTF? she needs to get out of town? It is a friend that she has known for 20+ years and I know her too. She might not be the best to get advice from as she cheated on her husband for at least 15 of the last 20 years, moved away the last 5 years. REALLY I am not making this up!*
> 
> I want to save the marriage but it sure does not look good. Perhaps the VAR will give me some info as to what I can do as she isn't talking to me. If she confesses some heinious crime so be it but I am really just wanting to know what is on her mind and how she feels.


Can you believe that she is staying with the friend? Could the friend cover for her? 

The friend is a cheater and we know that cheaters have honor,and wouldn't lie.


----------



## OldWolf57

CUT THE MONEY OFF NOW !!!

I mean come on man !!
She actually said she was going to stay with a woman you both KNOW is a cheater, and you didn't say " nice choice, another cheater "

F**k the softshoe approach. 
File and have her served while she is there. Pack her s**t and send it to her. Then change the lock.
Better yet, tell her to take ALL her stuff with her, cause she just LOST her home.

She is going to a cheater to get info on what she can expect by way of reward after the D.
Shut down the money NOW.

By the way, have you checked the phone records to see who she has been calling.

Then again, she may be trying to scare you, since you both know the cheater. Thats so she can date like she wants, if you back down.

FF your son is 15, this is not our 15. Be proactive, bc this is really sounding like she wants out.


----------



## Chaparral

Sounds like she has a plan. Cut her off.


----------



## TRy

FreedomRider said:


> I want to save the marriage but it sure does not look good. Perhaps the VAR will give me some info as to what I can do as she isn't talking to me. If she confesses some heinious crime so be it but I am really just wanting to know what is on her mind and how she feels.


 It is all about her and what she thinks. She has all of the power, yet all of her power comes from you. Stop worrying about what she thinks. She needs to start worrying about what you think.

You do not need to know more to act. She went on a date to a drive in movie with another man (OM) that she has know for 4 months that you did not know about. She went even though she said that she would not after you told her that you did not want her to go. Dating another man is cheating in and of itself. There does not need to be proof of sex because dating means that she is openly back on the market. You do not need to wait around for her to close the deal before acting. 

If my wife started dating other men I would divorce her on the spot. I would not wait until I could prove that she f*ck the other man. You do not need to prove anything more to know that she no longer respects you or the normal boundaries of marraige. She cannot love a man that she does not respect. If he did not have sex with her this time (they had sex but I am just saying if), he or someone else will the next time and you know it.

The best chance at saving your marraige is to file and move on and not look back. Maybe she will start respecting you and try to get you back. Not a sure thing, but better than the odds with your current course of inaction.


----------



## lordmayhem

I can't believe that I've never clicked on this thread! 

For some odd reason, I've been avoiding this thread, and it seems there's been a lot of fireworks going on. 

All speculation aside, all the facts given by the OP about the situation and his wife's behavior, are consistent with what we have come to know as wayward behavior. There are just too many red flags here to ignore. And now she is so easily willing to walk away from an 18 year marriage over an accusation? And also wants to get out of town for a few days with friends? Where have we all seen this before people?

No, there is no proof of a PA, but going to a drive in theater is not the equivalent of going to a regular movie theater, its the equivalent of going to a make out point where teenagers do inappropriate things (to quote her). FWIW, my wife and I got to go to a local drive in a few years ago before it closed, and it was goooood. And if my fWW had told me she wanted to go to a drive in with another man alone and with no other friends going with them, I would forbid her also.

Why didn't this OM invite other people along with your wife? Why just the two of them and no one else?

Why did she ask him permission? Simple. She thought he would be okay with it, because *they're just friends*. How many times have we heard this same exact phrase, or something similar to it?

Did he do wrong by threatening divorce? Maybe. But he was laying down a boundary and she stepped over it. We've seen this in other stories here, where the BS tells his/her WS they do not want them going someplace with the OP, but they go ahead and do so anyway, playing the controlling card in the process.

But looking at the totality of the situation, there is indeed probable cause and enough reasonable suspicion to warrant further investigation into her activities.


----------



## the guy

FreedomRider said:


> Perhaps the VAR will give me some info as to what I can do as she isn't talking to me. If she confesses some heinious crime so be it but I am really just wanting to know what is on her mind and how she feels.


Perhaps nothing.....the VAR will reveal alot. You should have planted it days ago, but it never to late especially in your case.

Its very rare to get a confession, but when you do get more info on the VAR its important to come up with an effective confrontation...most of the time they just confess on what you know.

Play your cards right and you may get more of whats on her mind then what she thinks you know. 


NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!!!!!!!!


----------



## lordmayhem

FreedomRider said:


> I am getting a VAR today to put in her car as she is going to stay with a girl friend Tues and Wed as she needs to 'get out of town' for a while. WTF? she needs to get out of town? It is a friend that she has known for 20+ years and I know her too. She might not be the best to get advice from as she cheated on her husband for at least 15 of the last 20 years, moved away the last 5 years. REALLY I am not making this up!


Okay, since she doesn't work, who is paying for this little out of town vacation to see a known cheater? And have you verified any of this or is all this info coming from her? You this is just a long GNO, right? 

And who is this OM? From what little you've posted, he's 44 years old and owns a store that your wife shops at. Anything else?

She locks her phones and computer, any progress on that front? She seems to need a lot of secrecy, and this may just be the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## Chaparral

Ask her if she is so innocent, why is she acting so guilty? 

What's that quote about "methinks she doth protest too much"?


----------



## Chaparral

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> My lying cheating ex couldn't look me in the eyes either.


Good catch, ask her why she can't look you in the eye. She dated another man. Ask her which of her friends agree with her.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

FF, why are you rewarding her with a trip?

A few weeks before dday, my ex announced that she wanted to take my daughter to New York on a shopping trip. Naturally, I was upset because this was an expensive proposition and she hadn't even bothered to ask me. And considering the way she had been treating me, there was no way that I was going to pay for her fun (even if it meant disappointing my daughter.)

She treated me like sh!t and expected me to open my wallet -- no fricking way.


----------



## Shaggy

If you know the person she is going to stay with , you might want to remind that person that you know she's also a cheater and you'll be happy to expose to her husband all you know if you find she's helping your wife also cheat.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Good suggestion Shag, but somehow I'm thinking the husband might already know.


----------



## OldWolf57

FR, maybe you are not hearing us. You need to check the phones records NOW !!! You need to cancel credit cards NOW !!!

Stevie Wonders can see what this is.

You may be fearing for your retirement, but I bet she isn't.
You may be fearing the breakup of your family, she isn't.
You may be fearing being alone at your age, she isn't.
All of her actions say she has an agenda. There is just no way your threat should be bring all this drama.

There is something more here dude.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

FF, I echo Old Wolf's sentiment. You are about to get royally screwed. The best defense is offense. If you passively wait for your wife to come to her senses, she will actively take your azz to the proverbial cleaners.

Also, to paraphrase Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually the right one.


----------



## Shaggy

I'm thinking if you were to drop by friends house to drop off flowers that the friend might be there, but not your wife. Me thinks someone may have labor day weekend plans.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Shaggy said:


> I'm thinking if you were to drop by friends house to drop off flowers that the friend might be there, but not your wife. Me thinks someone may have labor day weekend plans.


And this time she'll skip the movie and cramped car and head straight to the local no tel motel.


----------



## Badblood

jnj express said:


> It always boils down to misery vs money doesn't it.
> 
> For some greenback dollars, you are gonna spend the rest of your life in misery
> 
> Try this----go seperation---on your own, not legal, and freeze her out of the money---don't give her a penny for anything---including her trip to her GF's----take away the car, so she doesn't have transportation, and cancel any CC she is on----give her a taste of reality and her own medicine
> 
> It's just totally sh*tty the betrayed gets cheated on, gets ripped apart, and then cuz the betrayed did all the work, finance wise, to make/keep life good for the family,---the betrayed also gets to pay-------
> 
> Betrayed's just really can't/don't win!!!!!!!!


So, express how is he going to do this? This isn't the middle ages, she has as much right to the money as he does, so how is he going to take her car? Without getting arrested, I mean. Wives are NOT slaves nor are they subject to their husband's whims. If she wants to she can force him to give her money for her expenses and there isn't a thing he can do about it except pay. It's a good thought, but unworkable in RL.


----------



## Badblood

theroad said:


> No affair is unique.
> 
> You don't need to have the WS come here to give their side.
> 
> A WS in the fog has rewritten their marriage history and justified their affair.
> 
> It is point less to say how her BH did not meet her needs. They bad state of their marriage was due them both neglecting it.
> 
> Going out and banging and OM is not going to make her marriage healthy. She made the wrong decision.
> 
> Your being in the Marines is pointless. People disagreeing with you has nothing to do with taking or giving orders.
> 
> You want to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.
> 
> Only testimony that is admissable in a court counts with you.
> 
> Fine for you but the courts don't care much about infidelity anymore.
> 
> Don't need a court to tell right from wrong, truth from lie.


Dude you are free to disagree with me , if you want. I'm not going to argue with you or anybody else. I would prefer to stay on topic and not get banned.


----------



## Badblood

OldWolf57 said:


> CUT THE MONEY OFF NOW !!!
> 
> I mean come on man !!
> She actually said she was going to stay with a woman you both KNOW is a cheater, and you didn't say " nice choice, another cheater "
> 
> F**k the softshoe approach.
> File and have her served while she is there. Pack her s**t and send it to her. Then change the lock.
> Better yet, tell her to take ALL her stuff with her, cause she just LOST her home.
> 
> She is going to a cheater to get info on what she can expect by way of reward after the D.
> Shut down the money NOW.
> 
> By the way, have you checked the phone records to see who she has been calling.
> 
> Then again, she may be trying to scare you, since you both know the cheater. Thats so she can date like she wants, if you back down.
> 
> FF your son is 15, this is not our 15. Be proactive, bc this is really sounding like she wants out.


This kind of post isn't helpful at all. This is the 21st Century, Freedomrider cannot legally withhold money from his wife, he cannot legally take anything she owns and he cannot legally evict her from the family home, so this is worthless. I've been through divorce twice and know what I'm talking about. If he were to try to keep her from entering the home, she can get an injunction and FORCE him to let her in, and maybe have him arrested for spousal abuse or domestic cruelty. OR, she can get an appt or hotel and force him to pay for it, plus her living expenses. If he tries this kind of crap, it very well might be him that is forced to leave, if she straps a writ or peace bond on his butt. Freedomrider, DON'T do anything that will prejudice your case, if it comes to court. Treat her like a room-mate, if you have to, but don't try to act like a tough guy, because a good lawyer will skin you alive if you even try to get tough with her. GET A GOOD ATTORNEY, NOW!!!!!!!! Let him do your fighting for you, that's what he gets paid for. Be absolutely proper and correct around her, don't argue, don't fight, don't do anything she can use as evidence against you. It's tough (when you really want to give her the boot) but that's how the game is played.


----------



## Badblood

chapparal said:


> Sounds like she has a plan. Cut her off.


I'm warning you, Freedomrider, don't even try it, or you won't have enough money for even spam and noodles. A good divorce lawyer will make mincemeat out of you if you try to cut her off. What you CAN do , is make everything more difficult for her. If your bank accounts are in your name only , change them to another bank, and don't tell her, make her find out for herself. If she doesn't have access to her own cash, and asks you for some, always give her less than what she asks for. Don't eat with her, eat out, don't go to social events with her, and for God'sake don't screw her. In short, give her nothing at all for her lawyer to hang you with.


----------



## Badblood

BTW, I'm only saying these things if you are certain that divorce is inevitable. When preparing for divorce you can't go off half-****ed, you can't be emotional, and you can't act like a tough guy. You will need your wits about you at all times, you will have to be as ruthless as the situation calls for, and you will have to constantly be on your guard.


----------



## Machiavelli

FreedomRider said:


> she is going to stay with a girl friend Tues and Wed as she needs to 'get out of town' for a while. WTF? she needs to get out of town? It is a friend that she has known for 20+ years and I know her too. She might not be the best to get advice from as she cheated on her husband for at least 15 of the last 20 years, moved away the last 5 years. REALLY I am not making this up!.


Birds of a feather flop together. i would assume they're going to be doing some flopping with somebody during this get together. These two ever have sleepovers together in the past?


----------



## 67flh

you might not be able to stop this, but you sure can put a dampner on things by cutting her funds off.stop all cc cards and take the money outta the band before your back on here complaining how she took all your money...


----------



## lordmayhem

Badblood said:


> So, express how is he going to do this? This isn't the middle ages, she has as much right to the money as he does, so how is he going to take her car? Without getting arrested, I mean.


Oh puhleeze! Regardless of whether or not the car is in her name, its community property and he can do with it as he pleases, even sell it if he wants to. Its not until the divorce petition has been files and financial assets are frozen that he can't do something like that. I'm in law enforcement now. This is a civil matter and not a criminal matter and the police cannot get involved, so he won't be arrested. Do you know how many times husbands have called me complaining that their soon to be ex wife took the car and sold it just to spite the husband. All we can answer is "Sorry sir. This is a civil matter and you can't report it stolen. You will have to consult your lawyer and settle this in divorce/civil court." You weren't here for the HurtinginTN mega thread. His WW took the family's ONLY means of transportation, the old minivan, to Colorado, with no clear intention of returning, and guess what? There wasn't a damn thing he could do about it because this is a civil matter, not a criminal matter, and therefore, no police involvement.



Badblood said:


> Wives are NOT slaves nor are they subject to their husband's whims. If she wants to she can force him to give her money for her expenses and there isn't a thing he can do about it except pay. It's a good thought, but unworkable in RL.


*NOT* if she abandons the home and the child. And she cannot extort him into giving her money just because she wants to move out.


----------



## OldWolf57

bb, I have friends, and they will sit outside a lawyers office or in it. 
Not everyone here is law abiding dude. Some of us feed things.
But the things I say to ppl here is things i know of here.
Like LordM say, tell it to the judge.

And I truly do appreciate yor service to our country. Thats on the real.


----------



## lordmayhem

And with that I'm bowing out of this thread as it has my blood boiling due to the posts made to scare this BH into inaction. I could counter mosts of the posts but I'm liable to say something to get me banned like SomedayDig. I'm just as direct in my approach to things as I just retired from the USAF in 2007 after 23 years of service to our country, serving during the Cold War, and multiple tours in the CENTCOM AOR in OIF and OEF. I may not have seen combat, but I've support the ground pounders that did. I'm outtie for the night.


----------



## Badblood

lordmayhem said:


> Oh puhleeze! Regardless of whether or not the car is in her name, its community property and he can do with it as he pleases, even sell it if he wants to. Its not until the divorce petition has been files and financial assets are frozen that he can't do something like that. I'm in law enforcement now. This is a civil matter and not a criminal matter and the police cannot get involved, so he won't be arrested. Do you know how many times husbands have called me complaining that their soon to be ex wife took the car and sold it just to spite the husband. All we can answer is "Sorry sir. This is a civil matter and you can't report it stolen. You will have to consult your lawyer and settle this in divorce/civil court." You weren't here for the HurtinginTN mega thread. His WW took the family's ONLY means of transportation, the old minivan, to Colorado, with no clear intention of returning, and guess what? There wasn't a damn thing he could do about it because this is a civil matter, not a criminal matter, and therefore, no police involvement.
> 
> 
> 
> *NOT* if she abandons the home and the child. And she cannot extort him into giving her money just because she wants to move out.


Sorry LMH, but you are wrong. If the car is unencumbered and in her name, he cannot sign the title, in order to sell it. The only person allowed to sign a title transfer is the person on the title as owner. That IS a criminal offense. How do I know? Because I tried to do this with my wife's car, when we moved to D. C. I was not legally able to sell it because I was her husband, but I was able to sell it because she was incapcitated and I was her guardian. Unencumbered one-owner autos are not community property, but individual personal belongings, like jewelry, etc. Plus, abandonment is really, really hard to prove. If Freedomrider's wife is visiting a friend , that isn't even close. If he attempts to keep her from entering the family home, a good lawyer will nail him to a tree.


----------



## Badblood

The bottomline is, don't do anything that may come back and bite you on the ass during divorce proceedings.


----------



## Badblood

OldWolf57 said:


> bb, I have friends, and they will sit outside a lawyers office or in it.
> Not everyone here is law abiding dude. Some of us feed things.
> But the things I say to ppl here is things i know of here.
> Like LordM say, tell it to the judge.
> 
> And I truly do appreciate yor service to our country. Thats on the real.


Thanks, Wolf, but anything I did has been done by hundreds of thousands of others, and are still being done.


----------



## Badblood

Freedomrider, If you are sure that divorce is certain, you need to form a plan of action, in concert with your lawyer. He/she will be able to inform you as to what it is legal for you to do and what restrictions you and your wife will face. So get a good one. One with a history of client satisfaction. He/she will help you protect your assets.


----------



## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> And with that I'm bowing out of this thread as it has my blood boiling due to the posts made to scare this BH into inaction. I could counter mosts of the posts but I'm liable to say something to get me banned like SomedayDig. I'm just as direct in my approach to things as I just retired from the USAF in 2007 after 23 years of service to our country, serving during the Cold War, and multiple tours in the CENTCOM AOR in OIF and OEF. I may not have seen combat, but I've support the ground pounders that did. I'm outtie for the night.


You know I am as proud of anything I have done about my military service. I bleed blue and gold. 

But while I appreciate my brothers in arms many of them have no clue as it pertains to relationships or anything else for that matter. Some of them are pretty f'd up really in this reguard. Many have been cheated on and many are huge cheaters as well. They are a cross section of society. This does not diminish what they have done for their country by any means. Being in harms way is a way of life and should be respected. But just because you trust a man to watch your back in combat does not mean you would trust that same man with your wife at home. Also anyone can claim to be anything on the internet.

That said, thank you for your service. You are obviously a man of integrity.
Not everyone makes it out of the military in one piece or without some collateral damage mentally either.


----------



## OldWolf57

BB you are right about the title. Ran into that first hand 
By the way, I have family stationed all over. So I know how it feels to lose family to war. 
I Salute all who serve, and am HAPPY to do so.
Maybe if I had been able to go, I wouldn't be how I am. But I am what I am.


----------



## Badblood

Well, Wolf, you could have had my place and welcome to it. While I value highly my time in service, the things that I had to do, see and experience will be with me , forever, and in some cases, that is not a good thing. Irreplaceable friends lost.


----------



## Badblood

So, Ent, when you said blue and gold, I thought you were a Michigan fan. Lol. So you were a Squid? You probably spent most of your time in TJ, didn't you?


----------



## FreedomRider

I said before I appreciate the help and advice I have been offered. I still appreciate it. I had no idea that this thread would be such a big issue. I really would like to save the marriage, I really need to protect the 15 yo son as he is a little bit aaaaaaa and will not be able to cope. 

Yes she is playing me for something, I don't know what she expects to gain out of this. I would have let her go if she had told me she wanted out, I am sure she knew that. 

She has been getting seperation pay from her last job, it runs out in a month and she will get $500 a week unemployment after that. I spoke with a good lawyer today, he advised staying together if possible...maybe he HAS to tell clients that I don't know. I can take the financial hit if necessary, I have been very poor before, I can cope. If I had to I know I could find another wife.....oh yeah just what I need another future EX. I will wait another week at the most and see if she will come aroound. I don't see how I can ever accept what she did and forget it though. I will stay cool and avoid trouble to see what develops with the possible Counciling. 

BadBlood I like your line of thought a lot, Thanks! There are others here that I think are wise in this matter also.


----------



## Badblood

FR, I really hope that everything works out for you. IF she ever gets over her attitude, maybe you can R, but if not, all I'm saying is be prepared. IDK how guilty she is and of what, but the way she is treating you now, isn't right.


----------



## Entropy3000

Badblood said:


> So, Ent, when you said blue and gold, I thought you were a Michigan fan. Lol. So you were a Squid? You probably spent most of your time in TJ, didn't you?


One needs an agile mind.

Black Aces -- VF41

No donkey shows or bottle dances for me. I did spend a lot of time in the hooker bars though. Watching out for Squids and Jarheads.

So no I did not work out of Imperial Beach with the teams ...


----------



## snap

My wife screwed with a Marine (not American though), so I kinda miss the point of using military career as a credential here. Even in this thread we have enough (ex-)military on both sides of the argument to run a second surge.


----------



## Badblood

snap said:


> My wife screwed with a Marine (not American though), so I kinda miss the point of using military career as a credential here. Even in this thread we have enough (ex-)military on both sides of the argument to run a second surge.


Royal Marines? Great guys.


----------



## Badblood

Entropy3000 said:


> Black Aces -- VF41
> 
> No donkey shows or bottle dances for me. I did spend a lot of time in the hooker bars though. Watching out for Squids and Jarheads.
> 
> So no I did not work out of Imperial Beach with the teams ...


I had to go once, just to say I saw it. I thought it was hysterical.


----------



## Shaggy

Badblood - There limits to what he must provide her financially. He doesn't have to just cave as your post leans towards. He can restrict her access to money. He can prevent her using money to pay for new apartments etc. And he can restrict the amount she can access.

He can't put her out of the family home, or deny food and shelter.


----------



## Badblood

Shag, You are projecting. Nobody said for him to cave, and as I said in my post , he can and should make things as difficult as possible for her. But the bottomline is that anything he does that can be used by her in divorce court, he should avoid. Re-read my posts again, and you will find that I am saying pretty much the same thing. Changing Bank accounts, stopping credit cards (If in his name), stop paying HER bills, refusing to give her money unless it is for the household, etc are all things he can do. What he can't do is sell her belongings, or keep her from using any money that is in a joint account or in her name.


----------



## Badblood

Freedomrider, your wife may have the morals of an alley cat, but she is no fool. You will have to keep your temper under control. Don't even try to be some sort of tough guy, because if you touch her or insult her in public or in front of witnesses, She will crucify you in court. The object of all of this is to get you out of the marriage with your assets intact. To do this, you need to try to make her look bad and yourself look reasonable. An idea might be to ask her to go to marriage counseling, but ask her in front of witnesses. If she refuses, she will look bad. See what I'm saying? If she refuses any idea of reconciliation, get her to do it in front of somebody. You have to be ruthless.


----------



## FreedomRider

Retainer $3,000 & bills at $190/hr. Supposed to be the best around here. I will see what happens thru the middle of the week then file. I installed a VAR but don't know how well it will work, I could not test it much. We are not together with anyone else to use as a witness. I am hoping things stay calm until Thursday.


----------



## Thorburn

Badblood said:


> Shag, You are projecting. Nobody said for him to cave, and as I said in my post , he can and should make things as difficult as possible for her. But the bottomline is that anything he does that can be used by her in divorce court, he should avoid. Re-read my posts again, and you will find that I am saying pretty much the same thing. Changing Bank accounts, stopping credit cards (If in his name), stop paying HER bills, refusing to give her money unless it is for the household, etc are all things he can do. What he can't do is sell her belongings, or keep her from using any money that is in a joint account or in her name.


Badblood is correct in this, that monkeying around with money can kick you in the arse if you go for a D, especially when it comes to alimoney. It is not fair but when is life fair. If you go for D keep in mind that in our state you can recuse a judge who is not man friendly when it comes to settlement and alimoney. I don't know what other states allow.

I know one case where the BS changed accounts, cut off the wife from money and the judge was not happy with that and gave her alimoney when in other cases he did not grant alimoney if the wife cheated. 

Getting a good attorney is well worth the money.


----------



## happyman64

FreedomRider said:


> Retainer $3,000 & bills at $190/hr. Supposed to be the best around here. I will see what happens thru the middle of the week then file. I installed a VAR but don't know how well it will work, I could not test it much. We are not together with anyone else to use as a witness. I am hoping things stay calm until Thursday.


Thursday is not that far away. Check the VAR to see if it sheds any more light on her nonsense.

I know you said she cannot look you in the eye.

Again wait till she is calm and at home. Get her attention and ask her if she is looking to end this marriage.

Just like that.

You have nothing to lose.

If she gives you attitude or the cold shoulder then you know where you stand. If she gives you BS then you know where you stand.

And who knows, maybe she might even give you the truth.....


----------



## Badblood

FreedomRider said:


> Retainer $3,000 & bills at $190/hr. Supposed to be the best around here. I will see what happens thru the middle of the week then file. I installed a VAR but don't know how well it will work, I could not test it much. We are not together with anyone else to use as a witness. I am hoping things stay calm until Thursday.


3 grand retainer sounds about right. It's much more for criminal (felony) , or personal injury (liability)and a little less for criminal (mis)or civil ( small claims) . So you are in the ballpark. I know it sounds a lot, but if he/she is any good , it will be money well spent.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

$3000 retainer is dead on for a good lawyer. $190 per hour is low, but I'm going by standards of living around Boston and New York. Around here $300 and up is a "high powered" guy, but the hourly rate is very subjective.

One other bit of advise. LET THE LAWYER DO WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. Don't say, "oh no, don't do that" because you feel it's mean or cruel etc.


----------



## costa200

> Yes she is playing me for something, I don't know what she expects to gain out of this. I would have let her go if she had told me she wanted out, I am sure she knew that.


But then she would be the one to ask for it and so she would be to blame for the situation!

This is something i learned in life. Some people always like to be the "good guys" even when they are not. So they find ways to get others to do what they want done. Often by manipulating and deceiving.

I hate people like that. Spineless snakes.


----------



## Badblood

Yes, Freedomrider, how about an update?


----------



## FreedomRider

She returned from 4 days at a girlfriends house. Still not speaking or even making eye contact with me. I have deceided to hire the lawyer and put an end to the whole mess.

Now (admitted on Sat afternoon) she is in a hospital, internal bleeding, she has had this problem before but now is real bad. She had to get a couple units of blood, but they can't find the problem.

I am opening a new checking account in the morning and will hire the lawyer this week. Should be able to do it tomorrow or Wednesday. Her being in the hospital is, no doubt, going to cause me more problems. Our 15 yo son is upset, our 22 you son blames me for causing the stress.....he thinks her going to the drive in was OK, yeah he really does, loyalty to his mom I guess.


----------



## J Valley

FreedomRider said:


> She returned from 4 days at a girlfriends house. Still not speaking or even making eye contact with me. I have deceided to hire the lawyer and put an end to the whole mess.
> 
> Now (admitted on Sat afternoon) she is in a hospital, internal bleeding, she has had this problem before but now is real bad. She had to get a couple units of blood, but they can't find the problem.
> 
> I am opening a new checking account in the morning and will hire the lawyer this week. Should be able to do it tomorrow or Wednesday. Her being in the hospital is, no doubt, going to cause me more problems. Our 15 yo son is upset, our 22 you son blames me for causing the stress.....he thinks her going to the drive in was OK, yeah he really does, loyalty to his mom I guess.


I am sorry about your wife’s condition. To me, now is not a good time to start the divorce process. For what it’s worth, she is still the mother of your children. If I am in your position, I would stay and take care of her, at least for now. I will wait till she recovers then I will decide my next cause of action.

Many years ago, a friend of mine cheated on his wife. His wife was going to start the divorce process when he suddenly got a heart attack. The doctors found 4 blockages and recommended that a multiple bypass be carried out. It took some time before he fully recovered. All this while, his wife was by his side to support him and took good care of him. During that time, she never say anything negative about him or about the affair. My friend thought he had been forgiven by his wife. Man, was he wrong! As soon as he was able to take care of himself, his wife proceeded with the divorce. Needless to say, my friend became a broken man. He realized just how much his wife cared for him and he regretted his cheating ways.

OP, I hope you will make the right decision.


----------



## happyman64

Freedom

Leave your kids out of it. Their opinions good or bad do not matter right now. Only your opinion matters.

What is the rush to D.

Give your wife the health care and support she needs.

Use that time to find out what is really going on in her head and life.

If you really love her wouldn't you want to know???


----------



## costa200

> he thinks her going to the drive in was OK, yeah he really does, loyalty to his mom I guess.


Not really. Early 20s late teens many times think that being married is just like being in the date game only with a wedding ring on the finger. They think they can have opposite sex "just friends". That's why many can't hold it together to save their lives.

Plus he is thinking mom would never cheat. That's what everybody thinks.

Tell him you will be waiting to see him being totally ok with his wife dating other guys while he is away on a trip.


----------



## Shaggy

costa200 said:


> Not really. Early 20s late teens many times think that being married is just like being in the date game only with a wedding ring on the finger. They think they can have opposite sex "just friends". That's why many can't hold it together to save their lives.
> 
> Plus he is thinking mom would never cheat. That's what everybody thinks.
> 
> Tell him you will be waiting to see him being totally ok with his wife dating other guys while he is away on a trip.


Yeah, the all quote Dan Savage as the ultimate authority on marriage and happiness and sex, and their #1 fear is being seen as "Controlling"

These are the future BS of America.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

She couldn't look you in the eye. But she's not cheating. :rollseyes:


----------



## happyman64

costa200 said:


> Not really. Early 20s late teens many times think that being married is just like being in the date game only with a wedding ring on the finger. They think they can have opposite sex "just friends". That's why many can't hold it together to save their lives.
> 
> Plus he is thinking mom would never cheat. That's what everybody thinks.
> 
> Tell him you will be waiting to see him being totally ok with his wife dating other guys while he is away on a trip.


You could also classify it as the "Young & Dumb" syndrome.

Come on, as teenagers we have all been there.

And this current generation is down right scary when it comes down to morals, integrity and fortitude.

Not all kids but many........


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

WorkingOnMe said:


> She couldn't look you in the eye. But she's not cheating. :rollseyes:


:iagree:

The cynical part of me want to advise you to let her 'date' take care of her while she's recuperating.


----------



## Entropy3000

costa200 said:


> Not really. Early 20s late teens many times think that being married is just like being in the date game only with a wedding ring on the finger. They think they can have opposite sex "just friends". That's why many can't hold it together to save their lives.
> 
> Plus he is thinking mom would never cheat. That's what everybody thinks.
> 
> Tell him you will be waiting to see him being totally ok with his wife dating other guys while he is away on a trip.


These days getting married is viewed it seems as you say ... like going steady used to be.


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## KanDo

I am sorry your wife is having medical problems. You should do what ever you feel you can to attend to her needs and support your family; but, this does not negate what she has done ( lying, dating in your marriage, and treating you with contempt when you didn't roll over) Defintely continue down the road to see the lawyer. Get your ducks in a row. You don't have to serve her this week. Perhaps her illness will open her eyes. Just don't get suckered. Keep up your resolve. Boundaries without consequences are nothing more than suggestions.


----------



## Eli-Zor

KanDo said:


> I am sorry your wife is having medical problems. You should do what ever you feel you can to attend to her needs and support your family; but, this does not negate what she has done ( lying, dating in your marriage, and treating you with contempt when you didn't roll over) Defintely continue down the road to see the lawyer. Get your ducks in a row. You don't have to serve her this week. Perhaps her illness will open her eyes. Just don't get suckered. Keep up your resolve. Boundaries without consequences are nothing more than suggestions.


Agree, she made choices and followed them through. Her ailment today may be a symptom of stress but she has had every opportunity to say sporry and be with you. Do not discuss this with your children or get drawn into discussions about her .

Offer sympathy, empathy and kindness but do not waver .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Badblood

costa200 said:


> Not really. Early 20s late teens many times think that being married is just like being in the date game only with a wedding ring on the finger. They think they can have opposite sex "just friends". That's why many can't hold it together to save their lives.
> 
> Plus he is thinking mom would never cheat. That's what everybody thinks.
> 
> Tell him you will be waiting to see him being totally ok with his wife dating other guys while he is away on a trip.


Is this how you treat your kids? Or do you have any? Or is this how you were treated by your parents? To force a child to take sides in a marriage dispute is reprehensible.


----------



## Badblood

Freedomrider, I advise you to do three things. 1. Continue with your preparations for divorce 2. take care of your wife during her illness 3. DO NOT involve the kids in any way, shape , or form


----------



## costa200

Badblood said:


> Is this how you treat your kids? Or do you have any? Or is this how you were treated by your parents? To force a child to take sides in a marriage dispute is reprehensible.


First, his son isn't a kid. He is a grown man, at least he should be. Second, how can he force his son to take sides when the son has already declared his support for his mother? Can't force a situation that has already happened.
Third people who think they can get through this shielding the "kids" often find themselves being vilified by the other side and rejected by their own offspring. In this case it has already began.

But that aside, if one of my kids is acting like a idiot, about whatever the subject at hand, yes he/she is going to get called on it. You do a youngster no favors by encouraging idiocy.


----------



## Badblood

No, you do more damage by calling him an idiot. Do you have any?


----------



## costa200

Badblood said:


> No, you do more damage by calling him an idiot. Do you have any?


And who said i would call him an idiot? People acting like idiots are not necessarily idiots per se. Heck, we all have had stages in life where we acted less smart than our abilities.

I have a daughter. She is 3, so this isn't exactly relevant. But i am a teacher. I deal with kids every single day. You would be surprised by just the effect it can have on a youngster to tell him to re-think a situation. Personally i'm notorious for being able to handle "problematic children". And it usually boils down to the fact that nobody has taught them to think all the way through to the consequences while being able to show empathy for them.

Teens are almost never neutral in divorces. They take sides, usually siding with the parent that is best at the propaganda war. In this case this man's son is over 20. He is not a child. And he is wrong. So what of it if he gets called on it? 

Don't forget that every parent has the duty to try and avoid their children to get in bad spots. In this case i can see this youngster being totally ok with his partner going on dates with other dudes (just to prove he is not his "controlling, jealous" father) and getting the cuckhold badge for it. It won't kill him but its not something a parent wishes on his boy.


----------



## FreedomRider

Badblood,

I have hired a Lawyer, I will be meeting with him on Monday to see what he recomends.

She is not willing to discuss anything but the most trivial matters, anything else causes her "stress".

I have not involved the kids in this, the 22yo involved himself and will no doubt be living elsewhere soon. I will not have hostility in my home. 

I do feel a lot better now that I have hired a lawyer, I have seen a therapist also but my reason for seeing her has changed I no longer want to try to repair the marriage I just want help moving on. I no longer am interested in reconciliation.


----------



## Eli-Zor

FreedomRider said:


> Badblood,
> 
> I have hired a Lawyer, I will be meeting with him on Monday to see what he recomends.
> 
> She is not willing to discuss anything but the most trivial matters, anything else causes her "stress".
> 
> I have not involved the kids in this, the 22yo involved himself and will no doubt be living elsewhere soon. I will not have hostility in my home.
> 
> I do feel a lot better now that I have hired a lawyer, I have seen a therapist also but my reason for seeing her has changed I no longer want to try to repair the marriage I just want help moving on. I no longer am interested in reconciliation.


You made your decision though you may change it over time, your wife can do alot to help change the D decision. For now, follow your course , work on yourself , make yourself attractive not for your wife but for yourself. Ditch bad habits and go forward with a positive attitude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mrstj4sho88

FreedomRider said:


> New here and asking for help.
> I (64yo)was returning from a 2 week trip across the country to see relatives when my wife (42yo) of almost 18 years called me all excited because she was asked to go to a Drive In to see the movie Magic Mike by a supposed friend of hers. I had no prior knowlege of this guy or any friendship she might have had with him. He works at a store in town that she goes to occasionaly.
> My wife had never gone to a Drive In before, I had asked her to go several times over the years but she always turned me down..."that is where teenagers go to do inappropriate things" is why she would not go.
> I told her I did not approve of her going with some stranger to a Drive In and that I did not want her to go. She said that he was a friend and it was ok. He told her the drive In was closing and since she "had never gone before she had to go with him". That is what she told me. I told her it was totally unaccecptable to go there with him and that if she did that our marrage will be over. She argued that there ws nothing going on but said she would not go. I did not hear from her until 2 days later when I returned home and she admitted she thought about what I said and deceided to go anyway. I asked her "even though you knew my feelings about it?" and she said yes, that I should not talk to her like that and I was wrong for telling her what to do. I of course (being totally devistated by this) told her that we are thru that she has destroyed our marriage. She says she did nothing wrong, she says there was no sex or anything. The marriage is over because of what I said, she will not be married if I don't trust her. I did tell her I trust her but not some stranger.
> Well it has been over a week now and according to her it is my fault sshe is totally blameless. I have talked to her twice explaining how/why I feel a married woman going to a Drive in movie with a virtual stranger is wrong. She says she is not wrong and won't be married to someone that does not trust her.
> I have asked her a couple times if she "wants" to save our marriage and her answer is "I don't think it can be saved". I love her her and want to find a way to fix this. I feel horribly betrayed and everyone I have told about this thinks the drive in date was totally wrong.
> What can I do?


You would ask her to go to the drive in movie with you. She would never go with you. This stranger ask and she acting all girlie girlie. She knew you would not agree to her going on this date. It sound like she is wanting to have her cake and eat it too. She is starting to forget all about limitations. I wish you good luck with this issues.


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## Chaparral

Since she doesn't talk to you, write everything down and give it to her. Explain everything in as much detail as possible. Tell her if she doesn't read it and respond intelligently, you know it was a date and she is in an affair and no furhter communication is necessary and you hope she has a good life.


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## badbane

okay hold up now i am going to go backwards here and inject some logic. 
Why would a married woman go alone with a man (friend or not) to a drive in. Not only that but to a movie that only straight women and gay men have a real interest in? 
Second of all while the D ultimatum was a little harsh the fact that his wife immediately agreed to the divorce and showed 0 initiative to repair the relationship. Explain how a loving trustworth spouse would feel that way after 18 years? 
An 18th year marriage should get over the bump of a stupid ultimatum in oh about the time it took me to type this sentence. I have made dumb ultimatums before and guess what I am still married and have been for four years now. It only took the five seconds for my wife to realize I was just upset and for her us to chill for a few minutes and everything chilled out. An18 year marriage.... I am sure one of you have made dumb ultimatums before. I am sure you didn't divorce then or burn down the drapes that you didn't like. 
FR did she even try to reassure you that she still loves you or did she just say I am not going to stay with someone who doesn't trust me? What's the deal with the no communication and no eye contact. Those a classic signs of avoidance and guilt. There are plenty of WS and BS living under one roof and able to communicate. They are still able to function as a dysfuctional couple until the split. 
I mean the answer to her question about not trusting you lies in the 18 year marriage. I am sure that she has done something before and you just trusted her. Two decades is a long time to go without a blow up this big. 
IF she can't reconcile that you had one moment of weakness in 18 years, where you felt she was in an inappropriate relationship, and you overreacted, then she was just looking for a way out. I am sure some people will try to argue this and I will say this is an opinion. However make it make sense any other way. 

The only way this was even remotely appropriate for her to be going to this movie with another man is if he was swinging for the other team. There is no way my wife would be married to me, an caught alive with another man in a car at a drive in. If she was caught alive in the car with another straight man in a drive in it better be because she was kidnapped. 
I would be setting my boundaries there too. I think the reason the OP has not found anything is maybe because he is not tech savvy. I have a threaded linked in my sig that can help you gather evidence.
If it helps to paint a picture .
a Married Wife's male "friend' calls her up. they have been talking awhile and are pretty familiar with each other. So he decides to invite her to a movie. He suggests an action flick. She says I have heard a lot about magic mike. Yea If you really want to go but don't expect me to be watching a bunch of naked guys running around on the screen.

She says don't worry i have something you can watch. 

They then go to a drive in movie and so they just sit in the car and a perfectly straight man sits in the car and watches a bunch of well builtmen runn around on the screen. for an hour and a half... that is what they do. Wait I am not sure if I haven't used this very same situation as a possible hypothetical situation to stress the illogic of a WS arguement.... Maybe not but I will from now on.

Anyway at this point I suggest FR that you start looking for the infidelity. In your case proving infidelity might help when i comes down to the alimony. maybe not but maybe so. Please go on my thread and see if you can access her ipad and email address. also look up the phone records. I think you need the whole truth because you are only getting a load of crap and she is getting off wayyyyy too easy. 
I would move the D along as slowly as you can afford too. I am sure you are 64 and you are probably thinking of retiring. I am sure you want to make sure that this impending D won't make it so you can't retire the way to want and deserve to. 

Please if you need any help cracking devices let me know. Oh the most common four digit passwords are her birth year, kids birth year, Your birth year, bank pin, last 4 of ssn, and possible om birth year. try those if you get it in with one of those then you are dealing with someone who is not tech savvy either.


----------



## Chaparral

No doubt she is acting as guilty as sin. The only question is what all has she done?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

chapparal said:


> The only question is what all has she done?


Chap, a more appropriate question is what *hasn't* she done? (Most likely things FR can only dream about doing with his wife.)


----------



## FreedomRider

Talked to the lawyer, filed and am waiting for her to get the letter and sign. I told her the letter is coming and we have finally been able to talk reasonably about our future. We will work together to keep the bills paid, she will be staying with a girl friend until we can get things taken care of. I am going to try to keep the house and our son, she will have as much parent time as she can do. We will split our property and liabilities as fairly as we can. l have no wish to be unfair to her and I feel she will be fair with me. The marriage is broken and can not be repaired, I really hope we can stay "friends" so we can take care of our son. With her reduced income it will be hard to cover all the monthly expenses.


----------



## happyman64

FreedomRider said:


> Talked to the lawyer, filed and am waiting for her to get the letter and sign. I told her the letter is coming and we have finally been able to talk reasonably about our future. We will work together to keep the bills paid, she will be staying with a girl friend until we can get things taken care of. I am going to try to keep the house and our son, she will have as much parent time as she can do. We will split our property and liabilities as fairly as we can. l have no wish to be unfair to her and I feel she will be fair with me. The marriage is broken and can not be repaired, I really hope we can stay "friends" so we can take care of our son. With her reduced income it will be hard to cover all the monthly expenses.


Wow, that was quick.

So did it take to file for your wife to start talking?

Was she agreeable to the D?

Is a D what Yu oth want?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Sounds like it was her plan all along.


----------



## OldWolf57

she is trading up in her opinion. what you need to do now is go after him. let the husband of his customers know he target married women.

To be truthful, you are being WAY to nice about this.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Definitely an exit affair.

You're being too nice and she will take advantage of you if you're not careful.


----------



## costa200

badbane said:


> okay hold up now i am going to go backwards here and inject some logic.
> Why would a married woman go alone with a man (friend or not) to a drive in. Not only that but to a movie that only straight women and gay men have a real interest in?
> Second of all while the D ultimatum was a little harsh the fact that his wife immediately agreed to the divorce and showed 0 initiative to repair the relationship. Explain how a loving trustworth spouse would feel that way after 18 years?
> An 18th year marriage should get over the bump of a stupid ultimatum in oh about the time it took me to type this sentence. I have made dumb ultimatums before and guess what I am still married and have been for four years now. It only took the five seconds for my wife to realize I was just upset and for her us to chill for a few minutes and everything chilled out. An18 year marriage.... I am sure one of you have made dumb ultimatums before. I am sure you didn't divorce then or burn down the drapes that you didn't like.
> FR did she even try to reassure you that she still loves you or did she just say I am not going to stay with someone who doesn't trust me? What's the deal with the no communication and no eye contact. Those a classic signs of avoidance and guilt. There are plenty of WS and BS living under one roof and able to communicate. They are still able to function as a dysfuctional couple until the split.
> I mean the answer to her question about not trusting you lies in the 18 year marriage. I am sure that she has done something before and you just trusted her. Two decades is a long time to go without a blow up this big.
> IF she can't reconcile that you had one moment of weakness in 18 years, where you felt she was in an inappropriate relationship, and you overreacted, then she was just looking for a way out. I am sure some people will try to argue this and I will say this is an opinion. However make it make sense any other way.
> 
> The only way this was even remotely appropriate for her to be going to this movie with another man is if he was swinging for the other team. There is no way my wife would be married to me, an caught alive with another man in a car at a drive in. If she was caught alive in the car with another straight man in a drive in it better be because she was kidnapped.
> I would be setting my boundaries there too. I think the reason the OP has not found anything is maybe because he is not tech savvy. I have a threaded linked in my sig that can help you gather evidence.
> If it helps to paint a picture .
> a Married Wife's male "friend' calls her up. they have been talking awhile and are pretty familiar with each other. So he decides to invite her to a movie. He suggests an action flick. She says I have heard a lot about magic mike. Yea If you really want to go but don't expect me to be watching a bunch of naked guys running around on the screen.
> 
> She says don't worry i have something you can watch.
> 
> They then go to a drive in movie and so they just sit in the car and a perfectly straight man sits in the car and watches a bunch of well builtmen runn around on the screen. for an hour and a half... that is what they do. Wait I am not sure if I haven't used this very same situation as a possible hypothetical situation to stress the illogic of a WS arguement.... Maybe not but I will from now on.
> 
> Anyway at this point I suggest FR that you start looking for the infidelity. In your case proving infidelity might help when i comes down to the alimony. maybe not but maybe so. Please go on my thread and see if you can access her ipad and email address. also look up the phone records. I think you need the whole truth because you are only getting a load of crap and she is getting off wayyyyy too easy.
> I would move the D along as slowly as you can afford too. I am sure you are 64 and you are probably thinking of retiring. I am sure you want to make sure that this impending D won't make it so you can't retire the way to want and deserve to.
> 
> Please if you need any help cracking devices let me know. Oh the most common four digit passwords are her birth year, kids birth year, Your birth year, bank pin, last 4 of ssn, and possible om birth year. try those if you get it in with one of those then you are dealing with someone who is not tech savvy either.


Yeah, it's pretty clear she doesn't give a damn and wants out. If it wasn't this time it would be at the next opportunity.


----------



## RandomDude

It's times like this that my wife seems to know what she's actually doing, she was the one who said (after some issues with our past "friends") that we won't befriend anyone who isn't friends of both of us. We've stuck to that rule. And because of that, situations like this would never happen in my marriage. I think I give her too little credit at times...

Anyways, I guess it's a little too late for prevention of the problem now unfortunately. All you can do is remain strong and don't cave in, your wife is acting rather immature for her age to be honest.


----------



## RandomDude

Come to think of it though, the ultimatum was rather harsh, I would have just said something like "I'll remember this" and she knows I would. So she'll be aware of the consequences alright, but I don't like making threats without being able to back it up and you made a rather big one...

Whether "I'll remember this" means an argument or a seperation my wife never knows. Guess that's a threat by itself but doesn't have the nasty trait of forcing you to back it up with any particular deed.


----------



## Doc Who

FreedomRider,
Look, this is your life and you are going to do what you want. But the chances of her being "fair" in a divorce are ZERO. She will lawyer up and when you think you have agreed to a fair split, she will ask for a little more, and them more, and then bleed you dry.

Divorce is WAR. She is selfish. PROTECT YOURSELF and your children. If "fair" means you get more, then fine. But do not count on it. Fair usually means the man is SCREWED.


----------



## JCD

Badblood,

You were all gung-ho on facts. Let's add a few shall we

FACT: A wife in an eighteen year marriage overreacts (you seem so quick to peg it on the man. Why not the woman too?) by taking a SINGLE ACT OF MISTRUST and issues an ultimatum: that she can't be married to a man who had a single act of (actually reasonable by your own admission) mistrust.

FACT: A wife can't look her husband in the eye nor does she engage in any conversation with him in any attempt to repair the marriage despite the man seeming incredibly willing to do so.

FACT: Mere days after this conversation, the wife has an Excel spreadsheet out listing all the assets in the marriage. Pretty quick work for a woman responding to a single act of mistrust...over a date with a strange man in a drive thru

FACT: Instead of working on her marriage, said wife drives out to spend DAYS (four in total) with a known cheating friend.

FACT: The hubby has her served and the (now hospitalized) wife who couldn't say two words to her husband, suddenly becomes a motor mouth trying to work out EXACTLY how to divide everything up, despite being ill. And out of the blue she has already arranged to live with said friend. Certainly nothing THERE smacks of premeditation.

So, we've added some more FACTS.

Knowing this, please explain how the 'mob' of posters 'made up' scenarios which...by golly, just happened to pan out exactly the way they foresaw it.

Edited to add: You threw out a lot of strong words about the various posters on this thread and how out of line they were. Now we have more information. What would a Marine Officer do in such circumstance when his characterization of such posters was, at best, just as hasty as the so called 'fantasies'?


----------



## Chaparral

RandomDude said:


> Come to think of it though, the ultimatum was rather harsh, I would have just said something like "I'll remember this" and she knows I would. So she'll be aware of the consequences alright, but I don't like making threats without being able to back it up and you made a rather big one...
> 
> Whether "I'll remember this" means an argument or a seperation my wife never knows. Guess that's a threat by itself but doesn't have the nasty trait of forcing you to back it up with any particular deed.


I don't think the ultimatum had anything to do with this. With a lettle detective work, I have no doubt he would find his wife has been in as affair/affairs. No one trashes a long term marriage ofer something this trivial. ,NO ONE this old thinks it wasn't an inappropriate date. either. She is trying to get out of the marriage and make him look like the bad guy.

OP please check phone/text records or you are going to be villified as the villian to family and friends and esp[ecially to your kids.

Going to be very interesting to see who she ends up with. No need to worry about where she is going to live now, it won't be for long.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

chapparal said:


> I don't think the ultimatum had anything to do with this.


:iagree:

I wonder what kind of weasel words he should've said to his wife to let her know that dating another man was unacceptable. Harsh? Definitely not!


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## costa200

RandomDude said:


> Come to think of it though, the ultimatum was rather harsh, I would have just said something like "I'll remember this" and she knows I would. So she'll be aware of the consequences alright, but I don't like making threats without being able to back it up and you made a rather big one...
> 
> Whether "I'll remember this" means an argument or a seperation my wife never knows. Guess that's a threat by itself but doesn't have the nasty trait of forcing you to back it up with any particular deed.


On the other hand you had time to think on this with no emotional stake in it. This guy was caught by surprise and under pressure. He didn't have the luxury to sit and think about it with a cool head. Maybe he could have worded it better. But what the heck... What else could he have told her? He outlined consequences and she took it to leave the marriage. In fact i would be surprised if she isn't already banging this other guy.


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## JCD

Dirty JCD trick number 9

I'd ask her friends and family for the name of a good divorce attorney. If/when they ask why, tell them she went to a romantic chick flick to a drive in with a strange man over your concerns.

(Yes, I know you already have an attorney)

This will force her to tapdance around the truth faster than Fred Astaire on meth.


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## Chaparral

Keep it simple, when asked why you are divorcing after what everyone thought was a long, happy marriage, tell the truth, your wife started dating other men.


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## OldWolf57

What everyone is starting to see is that she MUST be much more involved with this guy than FR know.

Comeonman, what wife goes to a drivein with a guy she just talks to when she shops at his store ??
And then defends it when she would not even go with her husband.

FR, tell them she is a cheater when they ask.


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