# Been struggling for months now....



## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

I’m still continuing to have a very rough time with my wife. (Married 1.5 years, no kids) At times I want to just leave it all. I think we’d both be better going our own ways. But maybe I’m wrong and I’m not trying hard enough. That seems to be what she keeps trying to get across anyway.

- I'm still being screamed at for my behavior and actions which she still claims are avoidant and calls me the king of passive aggression. I suck at confrontation and when she starts going off I shut down and freeze. It's hard to be close to someone who does that to you and I told her that is why I have trouble talking to her and I've become afraid to have conversations. Any point I try to make she twists around that it was my fault and my own doing. She says she has all the right to get so angry at me and then mocks me for being afraid.... she didn't seem too concerned that I felt afraid of her which sort of surprised me.

- I'm feeling that I can't be anything around her but happy and upbeat. I feel I’m not allowed to be angry, depressed, sad, etc. We had a discussion the other night and she pretty much said, “all those arguments we had the past few months? They are because of your actions and what you are doing”. She said she is the only one fighting for the marriage. How can I feel close to someone again after being screamed at for months? 

- What are my actions that are so bad? It seems like every move I make or any question that I ask. Most I can remember are, not buying security cameras for 2 months during her being stalked by an ex, keeping my dating profile open too long when we first met (even though I didn't log back in, which you can see the dates), putting her on the spot by taking her to a large dinner party with my family when first dating (I told her she did not need to go if felt uncomfortable), waiting too long to get therapy after my first marriage, and ignoring her to go do my chores after dinner (which is a habit I've done since the beginning). And one time when we were at the hospital late due to stomach cramps, I went home early to prepare for work the next day. Turns out she had a miscarriage. I owe up to that one being my bad decision and regret that the most. I do have a hard time making decisions and I don't handle things well in a crisis. Annoying? I'm sure it is to her. Get yelled at all the time for it? Not acceptable. So am I abusive and manipulative? Am I playing games? I’ve been accused for all of it.

- At this point I am a ticking nuclear bomb. I'm on medication for depression and anxiety. I shake all the time. I've lost 15 pounds. I am unwell. I don’t know how to fix this. I don’t know if this CAN be fixed. We both resent each other for a few things we’ve done. She wants to put it all behind and start over. She makes it seem so easy to do?

I am numb, I am lost, and I don't know. I go back and forth between try harder or give up...... try harder... give up..... Dammit. 

I’m not looking for a definitive answer (but you are welcome to say if you would stay/go), I’m just trying to figure out if I’m as evil as she says, or if she is verbally manipulating and abusing me.

Thanks everyone  I don't have anyone else to talk to. I don't want to tell my family because I don't want them treating her differently if we do fix things.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Paging @Uptown.

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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

So she wants to put this all behind you and start over...does that mean she is going to change the way she treats you? Does she own up to her part in all of this? 

Based on this:

- At this point I am a ticking nuclear bomb. I'm on medication for depression and anxiety. I shake all the time. I've lost 15 pounds. I am unwell. I don’t know how to fix this. I don’t know if this CAN be fixed. We both resent each other for a few things we’ve done.

I would say get out, people who display the type of behavior she does don't change.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Outside Again said:


> I’m still continuing to have a very rough time with my wife. (Married 1.5 years, no kids) At times I want to just leave it all. I think we’d both be better going our own ways. But maybe I’m wrong and I’m not trying hard enough. That seems to be what she keeps trying to get across anyway.


It isn't that individuals don't try hard enough, it is that they expend energy in the wrong manner. Energy is wasted.



> - I'm still being screamed at for my behavior and actions which she still claims are avoidant and calls me the king of passive aggression. I suck at confrontation and when she starts going off I shut down and freeze. It's hard to be close to someone who does that to you and I told her that is why I have trouble talking to her and I've become afraid to have conversations. Any point I try to make she twists around that it was my fault and my own doing. She says she has all the right to get so angry at me and then mocks me for being afraid.... she didn't seem too concerned that I felt afraid of her which sort of surprised me.


She takes it personally that you are afraid of her. She wants to suck you into her elevated emotional state and is upset because you won't or can't. You might be passive-aggressive, in fact I think every human on the planet is (to widely varying degrees)



> - I'm feeling that I can't be anything around her but happy and upbeat. I feel I’m not allowed to be angry, depressed, sad, etc. We had a discussion the other night and she pretty much said, “all those arguments we had the past few months? They are because of your actions and what you are doing”. She said she is the only one fighting for the marriage. How can I feel close to someone again after being screamed at for months?


Again, she takes your being upset as an attack on her. This is difficult because your feelings are not being validated.



> - What are my actions that are so bad? It seems like every move I make or any question that I ask. Most I can remember are, not buying security cameras for 2 months during her being stalked by an ex, keeping my dating profile open too long when we first met (even though I didn't log back in, which you can see the dates), putting her on the spot by taking her to a large dinner party with my family when first dating (I told her she did not need to go if felt uncomfortable), waiting too long to get therapy after my first marriage, and ignoring her to go do my chores after dinner (which is a habit I've done since the beginning). And one time when we were at the hospital late due to stomach cramps, I went home early to prepare for work the next day. Turns out she had a miscarriage. I owe up to that one being my bad decision and regret that the most. I do have a hard time making decisions and I don't handle things well in a crisis. Annoying? I'm sure it is to her. Get yelled at all the time for it? Not acceptable. So am I abusive and manipulative? Am I playing games? I’ve been accused for all of it.


We are talking about a grand disparity between her perceptions, your perceptions and reality.



> - At this point I am a ticking nuclear bomb. I'm on medication for depression and anxiety. I shake all the time. I've lost 15 pounds. I am unwell. I don’t know how to fix this. I don’t know if this CAN be fixed. We both resent each other for a few things we’ve done. She wants to put it all behind and start over. She makes it seem so easy to do?


It is simple. It won't be easy.




> I’m not looking for a definitive answer (but you are welcome to say if you would stay/go), I’m just trying to figure out if I’m as evil as she says, or if she is verbally manipulating and abusing me.


I am sure you have resorted to some maladaptive behaviors. The ones you face are pretty tough to handle, as one can be that deer in the headlights.


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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> So she wants to put this all behind you and start over...does that mean she is going to change the way she treats you? Does she own up to her part in all of this?
> 
> Based on this:
> 
> ...



I forgot to mention in my original post that she is bipolar II, so I don't know if that will change things.

She has apologized for saying some awful things to me, but that's the extent of it. She says it wouldn't have happened if I didn't abuse and manipulate her as my examples above. She just has to be right about everything, I've become afraid to argue


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

So it's your fault she abuses you? Do you see the flaw in the logic?

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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Outside Again said:


> I forgot to mention in my original post that she is bipolar II, so I don't know if that will change things.
> 
> She has apologized for saying some awful things to me, but that's the extent of it. She says it wouldn't have happened if I didn't abuse and manipulate her as my examples above. She just has to be right about everything, I've become afraid to argue


There is no manipulation in those examples. She is making it all up in her head, if those examples are an indication of what usually occurs. Being bipolar does not excuse her for treating you like sh!t, sorry. You dont have to live with that.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Bipolar II or not, she is being abusive and there's no excuse for that.


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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> There is no manipulation in those examples. She is making it all up in her head, if those examples are an indication of what usually occurs. Being bipolar does not excuse her for treating you like sh!t, sorry. You dont have to live with that.


Yeah, thats honestly it with the examples. I've never tried to purposely hurt her or set her up for anything. I just can't operate that way. She keeps blaming my subconscious and first marriage for why I'm doing all of this.



farsidejunky said:


> So it's your fault she abuses you? Do you see the flaw in the logic?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Yeah, I see the flaw  She would disagree with it. She can be VERY convincing when she is tearing into someone.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

I have a lot in common with your wife. And I married someone like you. I think I was a bit more supportive and not abusive, but he did tell me that he was scared of me. (He also wasn't passive aggressive.) 

Now that I am away from the marriage, I realize several things: 1) I should have never married someone who was scared of me. I am a strong personality and that's not changing. If I scare a man, we don't belong together. 
2) He should have never married someone he was scared of. (I don't think he's figured that out, as he dating a younger skinnier version of me.) 

Fear just doesn't belong in a relationship, and if she's a strong personality, and you are more passive...well that's not going to change. You can't change who you are. 

From your description, she does sound like a bit of bully. It's an easy pattern to fall into when you have an assertive personality. It's one I have to work on to keep it in check. 

Quite frankly, I think you guys are mismatched. If you don't have kids yet, cut your losses and find someone who is more mellow. And she needs to find a man that can stand up to her. 

Also you both should go into counseling. You sound a little too passive and you should examine why you chose this relationship. You do need to learn how to deal with conflict, because it's part of life and you can't always run away from it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Outside Again said:


> Yeah, thats honestly it with the examples. I've never tried to purposely hurt her or set her up for anything. I just can't operate that way. She keeps blaming my subconscious and first marriage for why I'm doing all of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I see the flaw  She would disagree with it. She can be VERY convincing when she is tearing into someone.


That's because you don't believe in yourself. 

Stop listening to why she thinks it is your fault and calmly state your truth:

"There is no explanation you can give that makes it okay to treat me in this manner."

Repeat this statement as often as necessary, even if you have to repeat it 20 times in a row.

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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

BlueWoman said:


> I have a lot in common with your wife. And I married someone like you. I think I was a bit more supportive and not abusive, but he did tell me that he was scared of me. (He also wasn't passive aggressive.)
> 
> Now that I am away from the marriage, I realize several things: 1) I should have never married someone who was scared of me. I am a strong personality and that's not changing. If I scare a man, we don't belong together.
> 2) He should have never married someone he was scared of. (I don't think he's figured that out, as he dating a younger skinnier version of me.)
> ...


Wow, yes. Sounds very similar. You are exactly right. She has a very strong personality, assertive and takes no BS.

I am more laid back, passive, and non-confrontational.

It wasn't like this for about the first year though. I didn't become afraid of her until being together about 2 years. 

I appreciate the comment as this does sound correct.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> That's because you don't believe in yourself.
> 
> Stop listening to why she thinks it is your fault and calmly state your truth:
> 
> ...


That will only get him half of the way. She is going to be further upset as she will take that statement personally. That is fine, but here is why I say it only goes half of the way. She is a bully and manipulative because he has visible emotional buttons that she pushes. "don't treat me this way" lets her know that her methods work.

This is a problem because she feels victimized by him. She is acting out of her own emotional pain. We can discredit or invalidate her side, but we would be foolish to do so. With understanding comes solutions.

His problem requires a tremendous amount of understanding to handle. When he changes how he reacts to her, the snowball is going to keep rolling. He has to manage that rolling snowball so that this behavior ends, but also so that his emotional trauma ends.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Outside Again said:


> I forgot to mention in my original post that she is bipolar II, so I don't know if that will change things.
> 
> She has apologized for saying some awful things to me, but that's the extent of it. She says it wouldn't have happened if I didn't abuse and manipulate her as my examples above. She just has to be right about everything, I've become afraid to argue


She's bipolar, emotionally abusive, manipulative, and shames you.

You have no kids and a 1.5 year marriage?

Pull the ripcord.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Relationship Teacher said:


> That will only get him half of the way. She is going to be further upset as she will take that statement personally. That is fine, but here is why I say it only goes half of the way. She is a bully and manipulative because he has visible emotional buttons that she pushes. "don't treat me this way" lets her know that her methods work.
> 
> This is a problem because she feels victimized by him. She is acting out of her own emotional pain. We can discredit or invalidate her side, but we would be foolish to do so. With understanding comes solutions.
> 
> His problem requires a tremendous amount of understanding to handle. When he changes how he reacts to her, the snowball is going to keep rolling. He has to manage that rolling snowball so that this behavior ends, but also so that his emotional trauma ends.


Ah, but RT, we are all responsible for owning our own triggers.

I am under no illusion that it is her emotional pain. In order for the OP to truly understand what he is up against, he needs distance. In order for him to gain distance, he must stop absorbing her emotional pain. He is not yet strong enough to do that. 

Once he can recognize the cycle, then he has a _choice_ whether or not he _wants_ to participate. Right now, he has allowed himself to be emotionally manipulated into thinking there wasn't one.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Ah, but RT, we are all responsible for owning our own triggers.
> 
> I am under no illusion that it is her emotional pain. In order for the OP to truly understand what he is up against, he needs distance. In order for him to gain distance, he must stop absorbing her emotional pain. He is not yet strong enough to do that.
> 
> Once he can recognize the cycle, then he has a _choice_ whether or not he _wants_ to participate. Right now, he has allowed himself to be emotionally manipulated into thinking there wasn't one.


I pretty much agree with everything you said. I think we pretty much size up the problem similarly, we just have a bit of a different manner in which to address it.


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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

marduk said:


> She's bipolar, emotionally abusive, manipulative, and shames you.
> 
> You have no kids and a 1.5 year marriage?
> 
> Pull the ripcord.


The feeling of guilt she piles on makes it really tough. 

She yells, "I sacrificed getting off medication to try to start our family! What have you done?!"

I did everything I could to provide and get what she needed during the days she was bed-ridden. I never once complained that she needed to be up cooking dinner or cleaning the house (or whatever). I knew it was tough for her and I did the best I could... but that is not enough for her.

I have fear on one shoulder and guilt on the other. It's a difficult place to be.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Outside Again said:


> The feeling of guilt she piles on makes it really tough.


You mean you allow her to make you feel guilty. Stop doing what she is doing: blaming someone else for her feelings or actions.



Outside Again said:


> She yells, "I sacrificed getting off medication to try to start our family! What have you done?!"


"There is no explanation you can give that makes it okay for you to blame me for your own actions."



Outside Again said:


> I did everything I could to provide and get what she needed during the days she was bed-ridden. I never once complained that she needed to be up cooking dinner or cleaning the house (or whatever). I knew it was tough for her and I did the best I could... but that is not enough for her.


And yet, here you are guilting yourself as if you could have done more. The more important question is: why?



Outside Again said:


> I have fear on one shoulder and guilt on the other. It's a difficult place to be.


The guilt is misplaced. The fear is leading you to inaction. And both are causing you to become emotionally conflicted, because you know what you should do, but are allowing guilt and fear to stop you.


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## JustSomeGuy68 (Apr 11, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> So she wants to put this all behind you and start over...does that mean she is going to change the way she treats you? Does she own up to her part in all of this?
> 
> Based on this:
> 
> ...


I agree with 3xnocharm. You are early on in this relationship and I can tell you first-hand it will not get easier unless you are truly both in it together. If you're planning to have kids, please do not until things get better. You may think kids will make it better, but they won't. What concerns me is that you are on medication for depression and anxiety. I have been there and taken myself off the medications because I didn't like what they did to me. I know, not advisable. But, I've been able to fight through those times of depression by trying to do other things, such as running or other form of exercise. Don't stay a ticking time bomb. They way you fix it is to say goodbye to her and move on. I know, it's difficult and easy to say. I haven't been able to do it myself, so I am no poster child. But, I also have other concerns to worry about, such as kids and finances.

Good luck to you. Hope it all works out for you and you find your way out and get off the meds.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Outside Again said:


> The feeling of guilt she piles on makes it really tough.
> 
> She yells, "I sacrificed getting off medication to try to start our family! What have you done?!"
> 
> ...


So don't be there. 

You're being manipulated.

If you were married, I'd recommend counselling. But you're not. 

What this is, is a trial run for being married. So suck it up, sit her down, and say "girlfriend, this is not working out. I'm not happy, you're not happy. I'm ending our relationship. I would like to stay part of your son's life, because he's my son now, too. But I want to be clear with you that we are done."

Because you are on the precipice of a lifetime of this. You're exactly the kind of guy a bipolar person looks for - because of your conflict aversion, you tolerate the behaviour. 

So don't. In one hour, this can be done. 

Oh, and it goes without saying, but stop having sex with her before you knock her up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Outside, I agree with @*farsidejunky* that you seem to be describing many warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which is why he asked me to join your thread. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., strong verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are classic behavioral symptoms for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD symptoms that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.



Outside Again said:


> She is bi-polar II.


Perhaps so. But even if she does, that would not rule out her also exhibiting strong BPD traits. A recent large-scale study found that 27% of bipolar-2 sufferers also exhibit full-blown BPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

Moreover, bipolar-2 is not the type of behavior you are describing here. Whereas bipolar-2 is exhibited as periodic severe depression, you primarily are describing intense and irrational outbursts of anger -- indicating a lack of emotional control. Whereas bipolar-2 typically takes two weeks to develop and lasts for several weeks, you are describing angry outbursts that are triggered in seconds by some minor thing you say or do. And, whereas bipolar-2 depressions typically take several weeks to disappear, you are describing tantrums that can be gone in a few hours, or a day or two at most.



> My wife has threatened me with "tearing my head off" to "I will kill you" recently for things I've done. [Your 2/26 post.]


As I noted above, such intense anger is a characteristic of BPD, not bipolar-2. With the latter, people are so depressed that they don't want to get out of bed. Although it is common for them to get irritable while depressed, that behavior falls far short of the explosive anger you describe.



> She has fibromyalgia. [Your 3/21 post.]


Having fibro does not mean a person necessarily exhibits BPD behaviors. There nonetheless is a strong link between fibromyalgia and BPD. See Fibromyalgia-- Heller. Also see AAPEL's view on this fibro/BPD connection at Fibromyalgia -- AAPEL View. Anecdotally, I can report that my BPDer exW suffers from fibro.



> I'm feeling that I can't be anything around her but happy and upbeat. I feel I’m not allowed to be angry, depressed, sad, etc.


That feeling is called "walking on eggshells." Every abused partner of a BPDer (i.e., person having strong BPD traits) knows exactly what it feels like. That's why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to those abused partners) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._



> She can pull something out of the hat that I did 2 years ago and ream me for it. [3/21 post.]


Because BPDers have a very weak self image, they keep a death grip on their false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Toward that end, they typically keep a very long mental list of every infraction or mistake you did (real or imagined). And they will pull out the ENTIRE list when arguing with you over anything, even the most trivial disagreements. 

By the end of my 15-year marriage, my BPDer exW was citing infractions I had done -- or she imagined I had done -- 14 and 15 years earlier. In order to keep "validating" her false self image of being "The Victim," my exW had a powerful need to see me as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune.



> I am a ticking nuclear bomb.... I shake all the time.


Outside, if you really have been living with a BPDer for nearly 2 years, consider yourself lucky that you're only shaking and feeling like a ticking bomb. It is common for the abused partners of BPDers to feel like they may be going insane. Indeed, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. Consequently, therapists usually see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Moreover, nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning. 



> She is VERY good at making me feel super guilty and that all of this is my fault. VERY, VERY, VERY GOOD at it. [3/21 post.]


If she is a BPDer, that ability to be very very convincing is to be expected. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true, they generally can be far more persuasive than can be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. This means that, if a BPDer decides to have you arrested and thrown into jail -- as my exW did to me -- the police will find her story very very convincing. They can see the sincerity and conviction on her face as she is talking to them.



> Sometimes she would blame me that I was the one doing all these things to the electronics to abuse her and make her paranoid. [3/21 post.]


If she is exhibiting strong and persistent BPD traits, you don't have to do anything to _"make her paranoid." _ She likely brought paranoia into the relationship. I note that _"Having stress-related paranoid thoughts" _is one of the nine defining behavioral traits for BPD. 



> We have no 100% evidence it is him and she knows this. But she is 99% sure it's him. [3/21 post.]


If she is a BPDer, her fear of the "stalking" exBF may be largely due to paranoia, not to real actions by that guy.



> I’m just trying to figure out if... she is verbally manipulating and abusing me.


If you are living with a W having strong narcissistic or sociopathic traits, then the abuse and manipulation likely is a deliberate attempt to harm you and use you. Moreover, such people are incapable of loving you. If she is exhibiting a pattern of strong BPD traits, however, she very likely does love you -- and the abuse likely is motivated out of fear, not from a desire to harm you.

Significantly, learning to spot BPD warning signs will NOT enable you to _diagnose_ your W's issues. A true diagnosis would require a determination of the underlying cause of BPD -- something nobody on the planet is yet able to demonstrate. Hence, the main reason for learning these red flags -- like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack -- is to help you decide whether you should walk away from her, and to help you see what role you've been playing in the unhappy marriage.

My advice, Outside, is to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join Farside, @3Xnocharm, @Satya and other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Outside.


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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you, thank you Uptown for the details and articles. Actually, thank everyone who has responded. It is greatly appreciated. I will check some of those articles out. It's funny, my wife once told me that some bi-polar people can also be diagnosed BPD, "but she doesn't believe she falls in that category". Of course, right?

Anyway, we had another large discussion/fight last night. About an hour and a half of talking, some yelling and crying and each of us wanting to pull our hair out.

I told her, "do you see from my side that after being screamed at for 2 months it is difficult to be close to someone again after you've called me a monster, piece of crap, abusive, manipulator, game player?"

She said, "don't you think I knew that? I tried to reach out and suggested a vacation and things for us to do but you just blow them off. You could do something as simple as bring me flowers or take us out to dinner. I point out your behaviors that are hurting me and you turn around get mad at me and blame me for your faults and that's not fair"

I said, "if i'm so awful, why are we doing this?"

She said, "did you ever stop to think about why I'm still here? I could leave at any time. I stay because I LOVE YOU. but I think you hate me and you don't even care I exist"

Then she keeps asking "what do i need to do to be a wife that you love"

At this point I'm clenching the hair on my head and feel like punching the cabinet next to me. I feel crazy and yet still guilty.

So at the end she says "Fine, I will treat this marriage like you've been treating it. We'll do our own thing, eat separate, you can get yourself off on your own or go sleep with another woman if you want. I'm not going to do that as I've been taking care of myself. I am not some toy you can pick and choose when you want me to be in your life"

I was like what??? I have zero desire to even do that. Even though we haven't had sex in like 2 months. 

The big guilt trip is she says I've left her with nothing in her life and she's trapped in this house with me. She doesn't have any family and only like 2 friends nearby who don't have any room for her. She once told me if the marriage ends she'll have to go to a homeless shelter. Serious question, How do you get past that? Or is it 'not my problem' at some point.

Then she goes on to say "I think you should get off all your medication and stop seeing a therapist. Go back to the way life was because you are so perfect and this was all my fault"

I said I'm not doing that. (At least not yet.) At this point I'm tired and its bed time.

We started to fall asleep in the same bed and then she got up an hour later and went to the spare room overnight to sleep.

She won't leave the marriage though. If that happens I have to be the one to make the decision. I know this is no way for either of us to live and probably shouldn't continue much more. I need to get over my guilt somehow and I really don't want any ill-will towards her or to ruin her life. I just don't think there is any going back.

Again, thanks for listening.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why are you still trying to get her to understand her brand of crazy? She will not just have an epiphany and suddenly realize she is treating you like crap.

She needs time alone for profound loss and reflection. 

I would suggest that you give it to her.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Outside Again said:


> Thank you, thank you Uptown for the details and articles. Actually, thank everyone who has responded. It is greatly appreciated. I will check some of those articles out. It's funny, my wife once told me that some bi-polar people can also be diagnosed BPD, "but she doesn't believe she falls in that category". Of course, right?
> 
> Anyway, we had another large discussion/fight last night. About an hour and a half of talking, some yelling and crying and each of us wanting to pull our hair out.
> 
> ...


"I hate you, please don't leave me!" Is classic BPD push-pull. 

Run. Like the wind. Right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sometimes love just isn't enough. She claims that she loves you but her actions toward you do not reflect that. You need to get out, and it honestly is not your problem how she chooses to deal with that. She is an adult, and is responsible for her own life. You cannot control what she does, whether your stay or go. Staying is obviously detrimental to your own health.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

marduk said:


> "I hate you, please don't leave me!" Is classic BPD push-pull.
> 
> Run. Like the wind. Right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. If you can't get through to her with counseling, communication and compromise then this isn't going to work. Just give her the 180 and focus on you.


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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks all. I'll get this figured out. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

She texted me this afternoon saying she is going to fight for us and then sent me wall after wall of text re-hashing what we argued about last night.

I was like really? I just sat here at work watching my phone light up like a Christmas tree. I guess so that is so I have it all in writing. ha

sigh.... like I said, I'll get it figured out.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Outside Again said:


> Thanks all. I'll get this figured out. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
> 
> She texted me this afternoon saying she is going to fight for us and then sent me wall after wall of text re-hashing what we argued about last night.
> 
> ...


Of course she's going to 'fight for us.' It's what BPD does. Fear of abandonment is huge... And as soon as that fear goes away, the rage comes back, all directed at you.

She will lay a vision of a perfect relationship and girlfriend at your feet. And she'll sincerely believe it.

But she won't be able to do it, and that's not her fault. She has work to do. 

But it's not your fault, either. She's your girlfriend, not your wife.

Do you want a lifetime of this?


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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

Yeah, you are right. 

One thing I'm worried about. In the past she has done self harm and had 2 suicide attempts in her life. 

Those things concern me. A lot. Obviously, I can't keep an eye on her when I'm sleeping or at work. I can't rule out the possibility of an attempt if we split.

Any advice on that aspect?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Outside Again said:


> Yeah, you are right.
> 
> One thing I'm worried about. In the past she has done self harm and had 2 suicide attempts in her life.
> 
> ...


Inform her family of your concerns.

Then let them worry about it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Inform her family of your concerns.
> 
> Then let them worry about it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



I wish I could, but no go. She dis-owned her adoptive family last year. She has cut them clean off and refuses to deal with them for the rest of her life.

She has zero family and few friends. I'm the only support she has/had.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If you are leaving her, it is no longer your problem. You are allowing her to commit emotional terrorism.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> If you are leaving her, it is no longer your problem. You are allowing her to commit emotional terrorism.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Agreed. It becomes not your problem at that point, she is responsible for herself and her life. That may sound cold, but its reality. If you feel she is being a real danger to herself when things go down, then contact the police, that's really all you CAN do.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Outside Again said:


> In the past she has done self harm and had 2 suicide attempts in her life.


Suicide attempts, arm cutting, head banging, and other types of self harm are strongly associated with having strong BPD traits. Indeed, this association is so strong that the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists _"self-harming behavior such as cutting"_ for only one disorder: BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has "cutting" listed as a defining trait.

I mention "cutting" because, if your W has done this, it is an ominous sign. Many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that_ Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but *the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder*. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma._ See J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004.

Outside, if you've not yet done so, it may be worth your while to take a quick look at the links I provided earlier -- i.e., to 18 BPD Warning Signs and to Maybe's Thread.


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## Outside Again (Feb 1, 2016)

Update.

I hung out for long enough. I am ending things.

She started pushing the issue of wanting kids again and I finally told her straight up no. I told her I would break out my concerns if she wanted and she started getting mad and said, "Oh i get it, my disabilities just make me a piece of crap wife" So she started splashing me with her water bottle and I stood up and threw my ring at her and said, "well you can have this back" And we argued some more and I'm just done.

Then she started pulling the big guilt trip that I'm leaving her with nothing and I've ruined her life, yada yada. She checked into a hospital now to get back on her correct drugs.

So, I guess I should make a topic in the next forum over. Just wanted the people who helped me with advice in here that I will move on!!!


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Good lord... 

OP, I was you 6 years ago. Down to the fear of arguing, being attacked, etc. The constant guilt and fear. Even the fear of guilt I might feel due to her self harm.

You have only three choices:
1) leave her and accept the way you felt about it. 
2) stay the same and accept the way you feel about it
3) change yourself and accept the way you feel about it. 

To be honest, any of them will lead to you changing in some way. You have already changed due to fear. The thing you really need to do is accept your feelings. Scared? Who cares? Feel guilty? Who cares? Feeling anxious? Again, who cares?

I am still married. I changed amd my wife changed. 
If you can truly accept that all of your emotions are just fine, that there is nothing "wrong" with any of them, you will be incapable of fearing yourself. If you are incapable of fearing yourself, you will be incapable of hating or fearing her. Or anyone else for that matter.

They say that the eyes are the windows to a person's soul. But that's BS. You can never really see other people. 

Eyes are our truest mirrors. Do you really think she is all that different from you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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