# UPDATE! Boyfriend doesn’t want to get married. Ever.



## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Hello all.

I have been dating my boyfriend for a year and a half. And it’s been a fantastic relationship.

We have occasional conflict but can always work through it without things getting personal or hurtful.

We communicate openly about issues in our relationship and take steps to work through them.

I know this man loves me deeply because he shows me every day that he does with his actions.

But.

He told me last night that he doesn’t “ever see us getting married”. The reason is that he was married in the past and says he did not like who he became when he was married. He said he felt like marriage limited his freedom and he was always having to ask his ex for permission to do things. He felt obligated to stay home with her and fill a role.

He missed out on doing a lot of things he enjoys (taking solo hikes, going for a drive, attending concerts) and feels like he will have to start becoming a homebody again and will be unhappy.

The problem is, I desire very much to be married. I believe this may be my hill to die on. So we have discussed that come the end of our lease we will probably go our separate ways, though we are very much in love. We feel we just have fundamental differences.

But I feel staying and expecting him to change would be wrong, and would not be respecting that he feels marriage is not the right thing for him.

I guess i don’t really know what type of advice I’m looking for- but if you’ve been through the same thing, have some insight into how he feels so I can better understand, or even just think I’m making the wrong move and wanna let me know- kindly hit that “reply” button.

Thanks friends.


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UPDATE: I just randomly remembered this thread today, and all the wonderful advice I received here. I know when I am reading these stories I get sort of personally invested and want to know the outcome, so I thought I would give everyone an update!

We are married!!!!

We got engaged Feb of 2021 and were married this past April. We are going to do fertility treatments this fall.

The advice I was given here gave me enough courage to express what I needed from my husband, and have a plan and be prepared to walk if he wasn’t on the same page.

Thankfully, he was 💕

I appreciate you all very, very much.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I have been dating my boyfriend for a year and a half. And it’s been a fantastic relationship.
> 
> ...


You need to correct one part of your post. You are in love with him,he isn’t in love with you. If he was he would be fighting for your relationship not planning on splitting up.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

You're making the right move IMO. He doesn't want to be "trapped" in a marriage. What would he do if you got pregnant and weren't married? Would he continue to act like a single, and childless man? Good thing you found this out before you spent more years with him and had a baby.

If he truly loved you he wouldn't be willing to let you go. He would want to marry you so you would be his, and no one else's. He has just been going along for the ride. Let him ride someone else.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Andy1001 said:


> You need to correct one part of your post. You are in love with him,he isn’t in love with you. If he was he would be fighting for your relationship not planning on splitting up.




It’s actually me that came up with the idea of splitting. I know I can’t change him or his views on marriage.

He asked if we could stay together. But still doesn’t want to be married in the future. 

And yes I’m still very much in love with him. I just don’t want to sacrifice my desire to be married for the rest of my life. I have sacrificed a lot in our relationship already. 


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I was thinking you are in love with marriage, or the idea of it.

What are your expectations of the life of a married couple?

What does it look like to you?

Is he correct in saying that marriage holds one down to become something they are not? Since you didn't refute his statement, I believe you know he is right. 

I believe he knows you well enough to know that you want what he doesn't. Is that true? Do you see married life as he explained?


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Araucaria said:


> You're making the right move IMO. He doesn't want to be "trapped" in a marriage. What would he do if you got pregnant and weren't married? Would he continue to act like a single, and childless man? Good thing you found this out before you spent more years with him and had a baby.
> 
> 
> 
> If he truly loved you he wouldn't be willing to let you go. He would want to marry you so you would be his, and no one else's. He has just been going along for the ride. Let him ride someone else.




Thank you 


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Time to go your separate ways.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

2ntnuf said:


> I was thinking you are in love with marriage, or the idea of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My expectations would be monogamy, commitment and the public declaration of that commitment, protection, partnership in financials and equal roles in the running of the household. Tied together with friendship and love. I want to know he will be by my side to work through the good and bad. 

I would like to say I would not expect him to constantly be home, or keep him from going out and doing things he wants to do. After all, I don’t keep him home now. The first year was us going and doing things often- and I don’t mind him going and doing his own thing as I am an introvert and understand the need for personal time. 

Yes- I’ve expressed the desire to marry one day- or at least start talking about the possibility of us marrying one day. I trust that he has given this thorough thought and determined marriage is not for him. 



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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The good news is that he is being honest with you. 

Maybe step back from the word "marriage" and understand how he feels about long term commitment. 

It may be that he doesn't want to commit long term. Since he is being honest about it, that is completely OK. You then need to be honest with yourself about what is important to you. 

Sometimes there are 2 people who are both fine people but are not compatible in a relationship.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

ok playing devils advocate here.....

what at this point in your life makes marriage so important? for many, its nothing more then bringing legalities into you relationship.

so if he treats you lousy, but you were married you would stay? how about if he treats you lousy and you ARENT married, you can pack your bags and split, easy peasy. or vice versa......I believe people would put more into a relationship if they knew their partner could bolt anytime, instead of a legal entanglement to unwind.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Marriage isn't for everyone, but some of those people are still able to commit to a serious relationship without the state contract. We only married for convenience and health insurance - we were already committed. And we'll divorce for financial benefits if it becomes necessary for pragmatic reasons - yet still stay together. The question is, can he fully commit to the relationship even without marriage? Are your expectations contrary to any of his stated desires?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Gazorpian46 said:


> My expectations would be monogamy, commitment and the public declaration of that commitment, protection, partnership in financials and equal roles in the running of the household. Tied together with friendship and love. I want to know he will be by my side to work through the good and bad.
> 
> I would like to say I would not expect him to constantly be home, or keep him from going out and doing things he wants to do. After all, I don’t keep him home now. The first year was us going and doing things often- and I don’t mind him going and doing his own thing as I am an introvert and understand the need for personal time.
> 
> ...


You say that you don't keep him home now. I believe that. Can he be happy with an introvert when he is apparently an extrovert? That would be difficult. Maybe I don't understand his type. 


Don't you have commitment right now? What more can be offered when the state you live in would likely give you child support for a baby born to an unwed mother? He would have visitation rights and see the child. If you haven't determined he would do this in the event of a divorce with children involved, maybe you haven't considered it enough? A man not committed to all of the responsibilities of children is not prepared for them. 

A declaration to the public when most of the public will not see it, is moot. Most APs don't give a tinker's dam about a public declaration. It means nothing. 

As far as the financials are concerned, you could do that now. The issue is, currently you have control of your money and don't have to worry how it is spent. 

I would think you have equal roles in the running of the household, now. Don't you two share in the day to day work on and in the home? When you say that, I expect you want to redo the house's decorations and style and of course, with his approval. If he wanted it changed, he would do it, so you want him to give up something so you can have more power in the relationship.

Are you offering a lifetime of bill payments for children and grandchildren? Long night with sick children. Extra work and a total change in lifestyle so that you can satisfy your urge to have children? Why would he do that? Because he loves you so much he would want to sacrifice his happiness for yours? I know that sounds harsh and it is. I'm sorry. I just don't get the attraction of marriage. Nothing stays the same. It's basically him giving you power over him. Then, he runs the risk of his heart breaking and you taking half, or more of everything, including what he worked so hard for or was given to him by his family, never to recoup any of it. 


So, I hope I sound something like what you think he is thinking. I'm trying. No sense in going into this one way or the other without considering as many angles as possible.

You already have the love and support things. 

And, you will never and can never be sure that anyone will always have your back. That's a fallacy folks tell others to make them feel like getting married. Nope, you can't trust that. It takes a lifetime to build that kind of trust. There is too much that can happen along the way. You must trust yourself to know what to do should something happen. 

Tough questions I've asked you. I think marriage and a commitment for life is that serious. Society may not. 


When you are married, he has the opportunity to lose half of everything some day. Will you let go of that potential for control with an iron-clad prenup?

And as other women here have posted, all of that he gives up for being able to ride you? I'm sorry, no particular ***** is worth all that. That is all he gets? And when you have a headache, a backache, or the kids gave you a tough time, he doesn't get a ride. Or, when he wants to get down and dirty, he can't because the kids will hear.

If you are only giving him rides to get him to want to marry you, you are at great risk in any relationship or marriage. Any commitment will be a lie.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

I understand you wanting to get married. I am married and was in my late twenties before I found someone else who wanted the same as me-- we dated for 2 years and then married. I also had an aunt who was with the same guy for 30 years-- they lived together and had always thought they were married. They never married. So does your guy like his space? Does he often go out with the guys? What is his reason for not getting married? I think if I met someone who I loved and he loved me and we treated each other with respect and communicated well, I'd have a hard time letting him go especially if we were living together. IDK of course it's up to you, you can take a break of each other and see what happens.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

At least he's honest. That's to his credit.

Can you live with him wanting to be his own person and do his own thing at times? Could you not do the same? And your love for each other will always keep you together? 

If not, then perhaps this is all for the best. And he may still be in your future, but just not at this time. 

Not to be flip, but that saying, "It is better to have loved and lost, than to not loved at all" is true.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Gazorpian46 said:


> And yes I’m still very much in love with him. I just don’t want to sacrifice my desire to be married for the rest of my life. I have sacrificed a lot in our relationship already.


What have you already sacrificed in your relationship?

When is the lease up?

Didn't you talk about this before you moved in together?


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

uhtred said:


> The good news is that he is being honest with you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was under the impression we were committed for the long term, but since this has happened I will reapproach him to see if that’s what he’s fearing. He did say he envisions a future for us- just not married. 



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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

In other words, you are good enough to live with but not to marry.

Why did you two move in together in the first place? He is not in love with you. Let him go and seek what you want. This guy ain't it. You are paying for his baggage. Eff that. Stop playing house with him. He will not commit to you.

That is a big mistake I have noticed young couples do. Why buy the cow when you gave away the milk for free? 

Before moving in together with any other man in the future, make sure he sees you as marriage material and not just someone to shack up with for some time.

I have young relatives that do this. They live together with a girl, but will not marry because they can lose so much. That is BS! Any woman could end up pregnant and the man would have to pay up whether they were legally married or just shacked up. In other words, not making your union legal is a mere excuse, and a poor one; I may add.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I am the one who declared that I would never get married. Ever! I don't need a piece of paper to be committed, I said. Marriage is for suckers! I said. I'm child-free by choice which further solidified my decision to never marry (not judging those who have kids out of wedlock however!) I like to think of myself as a serial monogamist lol.

Guess what? At 51 years old I am a newlywed. Go figure! I guess it took me that long to find someone I knew I could spend the rest of my life with and was proud to call my husband. So I just might be the biggest hypocrite on your thread. 

Here's the thing. Your boyfriend has told you his truth. He gets an A+ for that. I will say this though. I think his view of marriage is skewed. I can pretty much do what I want, when I want. Same for my husband. Within reason, of course. But we love and respect eachother so we don't see any constraints we put on eachother as a negative. 

Believe him and go find the man that wants to live life with you, as husband and wife like you do. There are plenty of them out there. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and I know this is hurting you and him so much. But this is a choice that can't be overcome without one of you (probably you) settling.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

x598 said:


> ok playing devils advocate here.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have dreamt of being married since I was a little girl. Not of the wedding like a lot of women do- but of actually being a wife. Having the covering of a husband and loving and serving one man and growing old together.

If he was verbally or emotionally abusing me I would not stay. That is what I think of when I hear you say lousy. I’ve been in an emotionally abusive relationship and it did a lot of damage I needed a lot of counseling to overcome. 

I agree about working harder in a relationship when you know your partner could bolt anytime. I think that’s part of what he is saying when he says marriage makes people complacent.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> Marriage isn't for everyone, but some of those people are still able to commit to a serious relationship without the state contract. We only married for convenience and health insurance - we were already committed. And we'll divorce for financial benefits if it becomes necessary for pragmatic reasons - yet still stay together. The question is, can he fully commit to the relationship even without marriage? Are your expectations contrary to any of his stated desires?




I think this is the core of it. When he said he would never marry me it cut me deep and made me feel it was more about me than his opposition to marriage. If he really loved me he would overcome his apprehension of marriage, wouldn’t he? I have really been questioning his long term commitment to me since he cannot imagine himself marrying me. 

I do need to ask him- but maybe need to wait a bit and allow us both some space to regroup. Last nights conversation was very emotionally draining. 


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You can stay (and hope that he will change his mind at some point but that's obviously a gamble) or you can move on and look for someone who feels the same way you do about marriage (that's also a gamble in other ways). You have to decide which is most important.

Many people who get divorced never want to remarry no matter how much they love someone. He absolutely could really love you but not want to marry you -- or anyone else.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I find it very telling that he asked to stay together knowing that you'll be unhappy without marriage.

That tells me that he's focused on himself.. If he loved you that much what makes you happy would be important, even if it meant splitting up.

Such a person is generally poor long term partner material.

Let me ask you this: if he agreed to get married but you knew he'd be miserable would you go through with it? I bet not.

Move on to someone who values you more.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

2ntnuf said:


> You say that you don't keep him home now. I believe that. Can he be happy with an introvert when he is apparently an extrovert? That would be difficult. Maybe I don't understand his type.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don’t even understand if he’s an extrovert or introvert  He describes himself as an extrovert and loves spending time with family but he also needs time to recoup by himself when he’s been around people too much.

I thought we had commitment- I also thought we’d be married one day so it’s evident I am not as sure of things as I had believed. I did not realize how deep his aversion to marriage ran. I do absolutely believe him to be faithful and do not ever believe he would cheat. 

We will not be able to ever have children together- so no future support worries.

We do split all household bills right now- but maintain independent checking accounts.

He is great about sharing the cooking/cleaning/laundry responsibilities. He even feeds my cat and changes his litter 

You are not too harsh at all. I love hearing your point of view and you’ve given me a ton to consider. We make equal pay and no children together now or in the future so I can’t envision a scenario where I would pay him alimony nor vice versa.

Our sex life is very active and wonderful- but I agree he is not using me for that. If anything- I am more the sexual initiator. 




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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

cc48kel said:


> I understand you wanting to get married. I am married and was in my late twenties before I found someone else who wanted the same as me-- we dated for 2 years and then married. I also had an aunt who was with the same guy for 30 years-- they lived together and had always thought they were married. They never married. So does your guy like his space? Does he often go out with the guys? What is his reason for not getting married? I think if I met someone who I loved and he loved me and we treated each other with respect and communicated well, I'd have a hard time letting him go especially if we were living together. IDK of course it's up to you, you can take a break of each other and see what happens.




He does like some space but often wants to take mini trips with me or likes me along to just go for drives or on hikes with him. I think he would prefer maybe one night a week to himself which is absolutely no problem with me. His reason for not getting married is he feels we would become complacent and he would be giving up his personal independence. 

He was also married before and cheated on in a really disgusting way. He says this doesn’t affect his non desire to marry but I’m not so sure.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Openminded said:


> You can stay (and hope that he will change his mind at some point but that's obviously a gamble) or you can move on and look for someone who feels the same way you do about marriage (that's also a gamble in other ways). You have to decide which is most important.
> 
> Many people who get divorced never want to remarry no matter how much they love someone. He absolutely could really love you but not want to marry you -- or anyone else.




Absolutely. That is such a huge fear for me- he is literally everything I want in a man other than the not wanting to marry. I’m scared I will leave him to find someone who wants to marry and never find this kind of love again. 

Yes, he has been divorced. I just put this in a response to someone else. I apologize- I’m not trying to withhold anything from you guys, it just doesn’t occur to me to be relevant until you guys bring it up. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> I find it very telling that he asked to stay together knowing that you'll be unhappy without marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I absolutely do not want to drag him to the altar, that’s why I feel I’m in a lose/lose situation right now.

I don’t think I’m portraying him in the best light, though I am trying to be neutral. He is by far the least selfish man I’ve ever met in my life. What he asked for was “more time to work on us”. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> What have you already sacrificed in your relationship?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My desire for children. He is sterile due to testicular cancer. I decided I loved him more than I wanted children. And I wanted children a lot. 

The least is up next spring. 

We did to a certain extent. I asked him if he’d ever want to get married again and he said he didn’t know. But then gave me little seeds of hope- like talking about me taking his last name.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Gazorpian46 said:


> I absolutely do not want to drag him to the altar, that’s why I feel I’m in a lose/lose situation right now.
> 
> I don’t think I’m portraying him in the best light, though I am trying to be neutral. He is by far the least selfish man I’ve ever met in my life. What he asked for was “more time to work on us”.
> 
> ...


What does that mean? He's already made quite clear he doesn't want to get married.

His honesty is commendable, but "work on us" means "maybe I can bull**** her and she'll forget about marriage, this way I can have the relationship on my terms".

If you want to be with a guy that loves you enough to get married you're wasting good years of your life.

Guys like this will often get married quickly when they find someone they want to marry....he just doesn't want to marry you.

Dump him. Maybe he'll miss you and rethink things, but if not you'll be free to look elsewhere.

He's getting what he wants right now....you aren't.

I'm sorry....I know it's painful.

By the way.....I love your screen name.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

blazer prophet said:


> At least he's honest. That's to his credit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Absolutely. I appreciate nights to myself and understand he has the same needs. I’m interested in his hobbies but I understand if there are ones he’d like to do on his own.

I’m not sure about our love keeping us together. I can only speak for myself in that I believe love is an action not a feeling. I am only in control of how loving I am towards him, and couldn’t control him falling out of love or choosing not to love me.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Bibi1031 said:


> In other words, you are good enough to live with but not to marry.
> 
> Why did you two move in together in the first place? He is not in love with you. Let him go and seek what you want. This guy ain't it. You are paying for his baggage. Eff that. Stop playing house with him. He will not commit to you.
> 
> ...




Thank you Bibi. It was my fear as well as he is the first man I’ve lived with prior to marriage. It hurts to hear but it’s possible you are right and he is not in love with me. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> I am the one who declared that I would never get married. Ever! I don't need a piece of paper to be committed, I said. Marriage is for suckers! I said. I'm child-free by choice which further solidified my decision to never marry (not judging those who have kids out of wedlock however!) I like to think of myself as a serial monogamist lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you, Lucy. It’s very scary to think of leaving since in every other way this man fulfills all I desire in a partner. But I agree one of us would be settling if we stayed together.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Gazorpian46 said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> > What have you already sacrificed in your relationship?
> ...


You decided to give up having children in this life... in order to have a life with him. But he can't marry you. This is so sad, I don't know what to to say.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Gazorpian46 said:


> My desire for children. He is sterile due to testicular cancer. I decided I loved him more than I wanted children. And I wanted children a lot.
> 
> The least is up next spring.
> 
> ...


That's not fair. Some men do that to get something they want and do not want to lose. It's wrong to do that to another. 

After all this, I'd say to leave him when the lease is up. You gave up too much. Go have children and a good life. Remember to think of all these angles and keep strong. You wil find a good man right for you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Gazorpian46 said:


> My desire for children. He is sterile due to testicular cancer. I decided I loved him more than I wanted children. And I wanted children a lot.
> 
> The least is up next spring.
> 
> ...


Sister.....I say as gently as I can.: 

You are making a big mistake with this guy. Do not give up on having children.....they are one of the greatest joys of life.

How are you going to feel if you split up, he marries someone else, and you're past the point where you can have kids? It's not worth it.

You'll always have your kids.

And this guy knows you are willing to give up having children for him and he can't get married because he's worried about solo hikes?

Seriously?

You are going to give up children and he can't give up solo hikes?

And he still wants to stay together!

Doesn't get much more selfish than that .


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Gazorpian46 said:


> I absolutely do not want to drag him to the altar, that’s why I feel I’m in a lose/lose situation right now.
> 
> I don’t think I’m portraying him in the best light, though I am trying to be neutral. He is by far the least selfish man I’ve ever met in my life. What he asked for was “more time to work on us”.
> 
> ...


He can be a prize winner honey, but you are paying for past baggage and that is not fair to YOU!

You have been with him for over a year. Relationships take work. Marriage is also a relationship that takes work, lots of it actually. If he is afraid of it becoming complacent, or you controlling, etc; then he has not seen the real you at all. His baggage may not let him.

Did he have therapy after his X cheated on him? Do they have children? He may not be able to fully commit due to past trauma. He may very well love you, but he needs to seek help or you two will not make it long term. Infidelity is hell to get though and heal completely if you go at it on your own. How long had he been out of his marriage when you two moved in together?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Oh hon. You've already settled by deciding to not have children with this man. Please don't do anymore settling.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Gazorpian46 said:


> My desire for children. He is sterile due to testicular cancer. I decided I loved him more than I wanted children. And I wanted children a lot.
> 
> The least is up next spring.
> 
> We did to a certain extent. I asked him if he’d ever want to get married again and he said he didn’t know. But then gave me little seeds of hope- like talking about me taking his last name.


He knew that you gave up children, then he manipulated you by talking like that. That wasn't an accident. He doesn't want to lose you, but he wants it on his terms.

I think you're right to end this, but I don't think staying for another year is going to be helpful. I suggest you consider what you can do to get out of the lease and separate as soon as possible. You aren't getting any younger and staying with him only deepens your bond and will make it harder to move on.



lifeistooshort said:


> His honesty is commendable, but "work on us" means "maybe I can bull**** her and she'll forget about marriage, this way I can have the relationship on my terms".
> 
> If you want to be with a guy that loves you enough to get married you're wasting good years of your life.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree with this. I'm sorry. I know you love him, but lifeistooshort is right.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Can you state with 100% accuracy that he had testicular cancer?

Might he have been snipped (vasectomy)?

Was this why his EXW cheated on him, because he was going through treatments and could not perform?

Anyone can say anything, and when people say things that are not true, there is, of course, a reason.

He may not want children because of the commitment involved (phobia), so he made up some story.

Same with his wife and her supposed horrible behavior?

I would talk to her, or have someone else do it.





[THM]- Nemesis


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Gazorpian46 said:


> My desire for children. He is sterile due to testicular cancer. I decided I loved him more than I wanted children. And I wanted children a lot.
> 
> The least is up next spring.
> 
> ...


With what you posted about giving up children, this man should be on his knees proposing. He is a darn fool for sure. If you can, leave him if you can break the lease. You are wasting much more than your time on this fool. If you wanted marriage and children, you are settling for scraps! In time, the pain will subside. Let this fool go. He doesn't deserve you, and much less what you were willing to give up.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

If he said he doesn’t want to marry you then I would have to show him the door. He may change his mind at that point or may just walk away. I dated for two years and when marriage came up he said oh hell no! I told him the door was right behind him and I didn’t want to waste anymore time. 

I walked away with no intention of looking back. A few months later he asked me to marry him. I think he just needed the time to put things in perspective for himself and truly know I was the last love of his life.

Either way, don’t hang around waiting, move on knowing how you feel is right for you.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I have been dating my boyfriend for a year and a half. And it’s been a fantastic relationship.
> 
> ...


Why can't both your dreams be accomplished? Marriage doesn't put him into slavery. Conflicts and your different desires will be worked out after you tie the knot, just like they are now.

So why not agree to let him attend concerts, taking solo hikes, and all the other ultra important stuff he has to do, when you're married?

If you're really in love, then splitting up would be the absolute last resort. After exhausting every available way to stay together.

ETA: Kids are a very big thing to give up, especially for a woman. You'd likely resent him, and be unhappy once you got older.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Tell him to marry you or get out of your life. You want to know by next Tuesday at 12 noon. He's either in or out.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Spring is a long time away. You may want to re think that.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Oh honey, no no no. You've given up far too much already for this selfish man.

Let me tell you something. I spent years with the wrong man, I tried so hard to work on things with him, make it work, never give up, and due to that I missed my chance to have children. The one thing that I always wanted.

I met my husband when I was 38, and by then it was too late  We tried and tried to have a child (I was hoping for twins lol) but it never happened. There is a hole in my soul and an ache in my heart that I will carry with me to my grave. It is my only regret in life.

Don't be me honey. He's told you he's not going to marry you. Believe him and move out NOW.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> And this guy knows you are willing to give up having children for him and he can't get married because he's worried about solo hikes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This. Whatever other positive attributes he may have, this cancels it all out. This is sickeningly selfish. I know it’s hard but you will save yourself decades of heartache if you end this now. Damn I’m so sorry, you deserve so much more. 



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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Gaz,
Thank you for sharing that bit below, everything makes sense now. I was trying to reconcile the bit about how he is everything you want, with the earlier comment about sacrifice. This post ties it up. 

His fears are based on average behavior, not specific people. Many guys say that their wives do controlling stuff that they did not do as girlfriends. And the guys (some divorced others not) say: if she had done x,y,z when we were dating I never would have married her. And it’s a combo thing, most concisely stated as: Her desire for control went up as much as her desire for sex went down. 

BTW - My 28th anniversary recently passed and I’d say - while the control/desire stuff has happened to some degree, her sense of humor which was always good, is even better. Her sense of adventurousness and playfulness, as good or better. 

Let me - share a thought on this whole topic of taking the other person for granted. It does happen in any committed relationship. It does. And it feels bad when it happens. It’s also true that - as you well know - aging is a non uniform process. Some pieces of equipment malfunction WAY earlier than your heart stops beating. Your fellow, can’t have kids. My girl, has a condition that makes having intercourse really painful. 

The condition started about ten years ago when she was 46, and after three years of it getting worse despite doctors and specialists and pain meds and lubricants she said: 
Thinking about doing that, makes me tense and anxious. Because mostly now, it hurts during and then after. We are only 49 now, and you are young and fit and well employed. I free you to go and have a happy life with a fully functioning partner.

I said that if I needed someone to tell me how to live my life I’d let her know. And that as we get older and our parts break, we find work arounds. She was ok playing different versions of that game and here we are 7 years later. 

Let him think about the whole marriage thing a while. Then, don’t press him, just ask him what he would do if you got sick? And what would he expect you to do if he got sick. Don’t turn it into a discussion about why that means you two ought marry. Because he already had a controlling partner and he will likely perceive a press on this as controlling. I’m saying, this guy has had cancer. Ask the question and then let him ponder it some. 

Let him come to you, and if he doesn’t, don’t complain don’t repeat the conversation just let him see your silhouette outlined under the dim red light comes from those neon EXIT signs. 

And remember this, at the end if he asks why you are leaving, tell him: I’m not leaving because I’m not in love with you. Because I am. I’m leaving because you are not in love with me. 






Gazorpian46 said:


> My desire for children. He is sterile due to testicular cancer. I decided I loved him more than I wanted children. And I wanted children a lot.
> 
> The least is up next spring.
> 
> ...


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I understand his POV of not wanting to be married again. I ponder the idea of getting married a second time and I feel a great aversion to it. I think I have such an aversion to the idea because I gave up so much of myself the first time around. However, if I were to meet someone I truly loved and wanted to spend the rest of my life with, and they wanted to get married, I would marry them.

The problem is that it wasn't the act of getting married that made him have a bad experience, it was getting married to the wrong person. He knows that, and he is saying he does not want to get married to you. I think he's telling you that he doesn't think you're the right person, or he's not sure yet.

Most of us are indoctrinated with this idea that marriage is the ultimate relationship, our way to 'mate for life'. Anything less feels like something temporary. There's no promise, no guarantee of them sticking around during the tough times, because there are always tough times in life. Of course, marriage doesn't guarantee that either, but sometimes it does. For some people, it means something, and they'll stick by you through thick and thin. It's easy to have a great relationship when everything is going well.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I didn't realize the lease ended in a year. Somehow I forgot or missed that. Please look into getting out of it and moving on. It's not easy when you have sacrificed so much, because you only do that when you love someone. 

There are lots of folks here that will help you to get over it. Also, see a counselor for yourself, to help you figure out how to get through the stages of grief you might deal with. In the end, you deserve to have what you want and settling will never make you happy in the long-term.

I wish you the very best. Work toward your goals and stay within your boundaries. You will be much happier knowing you did the best you could to reach your goals, whatever happens.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

two comments from opposite ends of the issue.

Yes, eventually you might be able to convince him to get married. he can learn that living with you is very different from living with his ex wife...and that the benefits to marriage will overweigh any concerns he may have.

but YOU have to decide....if marriage is important to you...and if having kids is important....he might not be "the one". Having kids out of wedlock is a really poor idea...the kids have NO protection if the guy decides to leave.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Gazorpian46 said:


> But I feel staying and expecting him to change would be wrong, and would not be respecting that he feels marriage is not the right thing for him.


Actually, you'd just be disrespecting YOURSELF.

There is NO dignity in hanging around, desperately hoping he'll change his mind. He was honest with you, so don't disrespect yourself and start settling for less in life just because you love him. You both have two have different goals in life and that's just the way it is.

Unfortunately, you got yourself one of those guys who wants all the PERKS of being married but doesn't want to make any of the personal or legal commitments to you in order to have it. He likes playing house with the option to leave *unencumbered* at any time - he wants a woman to come home to who keeps the home fires burning and whose in his bed at night, and who provides him with all the creature comforts you undoubtedly provide for him with hot meals, clean clothes, a clean house, etc. etc.

He *wants* all these things, but he's not willing to make the ultimate commitment to you to get them. And his lame excuses are a complete insult to your intelligence.

I've always believed that if I'm not 'good enough' for someone to marry me, then I sure as HELL am not good enough to do his laundry, cook for him, sleep with him or spit his kids out for him.

Stick to your principles and don't move your line in the sand..._again_...for him.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

BioFury said:


> Why can't both your dreams be accomplished? Marriage doesn't put him into slavery.


Indeed. However, from OP's first post I got the sense that it isn't her that would put restrictions on him, it's that he would do it to himself because of him own embedded ideas of how he should act when married. We are slaves to our conditioning to a large degree. This may be his conditioning that would be hard to change, and it would take a long time during which he may self-limit in ways he'd later regret.

Marriage isn't for him, and I would be skeptical if he changes his mind if OP decides to leave. Given that she is already giving up one major dream, she should move on. It will be painful, of course, and for a while she may even feel that was a mistake to do so if she doesn't meet someone as good or better for a long time, who also wants marriage and kids. OP, if you decide to leave, I think you should also go No Contact - it will help keep you focused on your future.


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## Talk2Me (Mar 22, 2019)

I got divorced fairly recently and swore up and down I would never get married again. Then, I meet my current g/f and I honestly can't wait to marry her. However, my brother was in a very similar situation and he swore he would never get married again and he is next month. He rode the wave as long as he could until his g/f was basically 2 feet out the door and he proposed. If he loves you truly he will marry you regardless of past experiences. If he is completely against it then he sees you as someone that isn't going to last.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

You each have a right to your best life. I give him credit for being honest.
However, I think he should have informed you up front vs 1 1 /2 years later (or maybe he did).
Did you guys have 'the talk' at 6 months?

Anyway, studies show the biggest mistake people make dating is to continue to invest time in a relationship that will never be the kind of relationship you're looking for. Stop investing time in this relationship - and devote 100% of your energy into finding the right partner for you.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I think the fact he was divorced and doesn't want to get married is a sign that he's not in this for the long haul. I expect that if things started to get too hard or there were issues, he would probably walk out rather than try to work it out. That doesn't make him a bad person. Whatever he went through in the past has likely soured him on doing that again. He may have learned that he's really only happy with the BF-GF kind of relationship and he didn't like the married kind of relationship. So his mindset is likely to enjoy things and then move on once it's not fun anymore. 

Is this the longest relationship you've had? At 1.5 years, keep mind that you're still in the very early stages of the relationship. The first year or two of a relationship is much different than years 10 or 20 of the relationship. Pretty much every married couple will say how the first year or two was like heaven. I'm sure your BF would say the same about his marriage that he ultimately ended. You should probably wait at least until years 3 or 4 before you decide if he's the one you want to be with forever.

If you're going to get into a life-long relationship with someone, be sure that they also want a life-long relationship. Marriage will have some hard times. Marriage means you have to compromise a lot. Marriage means you have to work things out rather than cut your losses. If someone isn't ready for all that, they won't be a good marriage partner. If your BF is against it, then it's not likely that he will come around. Maybe he may get lost in the fun and decide it would be fun to get married, but that may just be for the fun of actually getting married. I'm not sure if he would be happy as a husband. It sounds like he's happy as a BF, but a BF is not a husband.

I would also like to mention that a dating relationship is not the same thing as a married relationship. In a dating relationship, the couple may be living somewhat independent lives. They may inform the other person about what they are going to do, but there is not the expectation that the choice will be made together. In a married relationship, the expectation is that major decisions will be a joint decision. Consider something like a job change. In a dating relationship, one person would simply tell the other about the change like "I'm quitting my job as a lawyer and going to school to be a teacher." But in a married relationship, that kind of decision would be something that would be discussed between both people and a unified decision would be reached. It would generally be unacceptable for a spouse to make major decisions unilaterally by themselves. So if your BF is saying he doesn't want to get married, he probably means he still wants 100% independence over his life and life choices.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> Marriage isn't for everyone, but some of those people are still able to commit to a serious relationship without the state contract. We only married for convenience and health insurance - we were already committed. And we'll divorce for financial benefits if it becomes necessary for pragmatic reasons - yet still stay together. The question is, can he fully commit to the relationship even without marriage? Are your expectations contrary to any of his stated desires?


This.

And I will only add...are you SURE that you are in an equitable relationship? He seems to place a high value on freedom and ability to do what he wants when he wants it. Just how much of that is he doing? How many times a month do you find yourself wishing he were home with you? How many times a month do you want to say something but don't for fear of it upsetting him? How many times do the two of you do what he wants to do instead of what you want to do (seeing that you're an introvert)?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

The two of you should talk about what it would take for the two of you to be happy together. If you have incompatible standards, time to move on. OTOH, if it turns out you don't have the same demands his ex did, there might be something here. Could he then be ok w/ marriage? Could you be ok w/ commitment, but no marriage? If you do stay together, consider having kids via donor sperm.

A sad possibility is that he is saying this b/c he'd rather say it than that he just wants to break up.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Serious question: Marriage... what's in it for him?

That's Sales 101. You want marriage. Sell him on it. You can't? Well... then there's the problem.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I've always believed that if I'm not 'good enough' for someone to marry me, then I sure as HELL am not good enough to do his laundry, cook for him, sleep with him or spit his kids out for him.
> 
> Stick to your principles and don't move your line in the sand..._again_...for him.


^This. Amen sister. If you want me to do all this, put a damn ring on it already!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I have been dating my boyfriend for a year and a half. And it’s been a fantastic relationship.
> 
> ...


You want to get married? That's normal and fine.

However, do you *really* want to marry someone who admits that he blew up his previous marriage because he is really **** at being married?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

IMO, marriage is the only way to go. You want my undivided attention; to prioritise plans with you; to set the terms of my relationships with other people inview of you ie. OSF, well then, I got a contract for you.

I would be concerned as I have seen it once before, a guy claiming to not like marriage, but then marrying the next one. How do you think you might feel?

Also, i would want to avoid those types who are looking for companionship without the commitment. Men who don't have strong relationships with friends and family are most likely to seek this out. 

There are times when being married is sine qua non. My husband works for a Catholic institution and he had to show our marriage license in order for the insurance to cover me ....... and I am in the late stages of cancer. 

It also mattered when I needed a visa to follow my husband to France.

If I were you, I would look into testicular cancer. did he have surgery? How curable is it? IOW, do you believe him?


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## Pam (Oct 7, 2010)

I have two (male) cousins, both are my age. They both lived with their girlfriends for several years, then got married (entertainingly, on the same day, and also the same day my brother married the first time). Within a year, both were divorced (my brother's marriage lasted a few years longer but he also divorced). I was stunned, they had been together for years!

Edit to add, the cousins were on different sides of the family so had never even heard of each other.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> By the way.....I love your screen name.



Thank you! I’m a huge Rick & Morty fan 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Livvie said:


> You decided to give up having children in this life... in order to have a life with him. But he can't marry you. This is so sad, I don't know what to to say.




I never looked at it like that... 

But that is really a great point. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

2ntnuf said:


> That's not fair. Some men do that to get something they want and do not want to lose. It's wrong to do that to another.
> 
> 
> 
> After all this, I'd say to leave him when the lease is up. You gave up too much. Go have children and a good life. Remember to think of all these angles and keep strong. You wil find a good man right for you.




Thank you for all your great advice, 2ntnuf.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Bibi1031 said:


> He can be a prize winner honey, but you are paying for past baggage and that is not fair to YOU!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He had therapy. He did not have children with her. He was out of his marriage 3 years (since divorce) when we started dating. A little over 4 since we moved in together. They were married for 5 years.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> Oh hon. You've already settled by deciding to not have children with this man. Please don't do anymore settling.




Thank you, Lucy 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> Can you state with 100% accuracy that he had testicular cancer?
> 
> Might he have been snipped (vasectomy)?
> 
> ...




Great points, Mars. And sadly I’ve heard of women being deceived like this. Without being too graphic- I am 100% sure he had testicular cancer and is sterile.

He takes a lot of ownership in her cheating, he said that he had stopped pursuing her, taking time for her. That he cared more about his job. 
Obviously there is no excuse for cheating- but he says he was far from the perfect husband and owns his stuff.

He never called her horrible. In fact- he’s never bad mouthed her ever. That was my wording describing the way she cheated. Sorry for the confusion! 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Bibi1031 said:


> With what you posted about giving up children, this man should be on his knees proposing. He is a darn fool for sure. If you can, leave him if you can break the lease. You are wasting much more than your time on this fool. If you wanted marriage and children, you are settling for scraps! In time, the pain will subside. Let this fool go. He doesn't deserve you, and much less what you were willing to give up.




I absolutely agree he should be on his knees proposing! I am a good woman and I know I have a lot to offer. It’s not an issue of feeling like I can’t do better- I love him in a way I never have anyone else.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Tomara said:


> If he said he doesn’t want to marry you then I would have to show him the door. He may change his mind at that point or may just walk away. I dated for two years and when marriage came up he said oh hell no! I told him the door was right behind him and I didn’t want to waste anymore time.
> 
> I walked away with no intention of looking back. A few months later he asked me to marry him. I think he just needed the time to put things in perspective for himself and truly know I was the last love of his life.
> 
> ...




I love this Tomara. Thank you for sharing your story.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

BioFury said:


> Why can't both your dreams be accomplished? Marriage doesn't put him into slavery. Conflicts and your different desires will be worked out after you tie the knot, just like they are now.
> 
> So why not agree to let him attend concerts, taking solo hikes, and all the other ultra important stuff he has to do, when you're married?
> 
> ...




I do let him do as he pleases. I didn’t mean to make it sound like he wants to be alone all the time, or even often. More often than not he actually wants me to go along with him as he does these things. He’s just asked for maybe one night a week to do his own thing. Which is absolutely fine with me and would continue to be so post-marriage.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Tell him to marry you or get out of your life. You want to know by next Tuesday at 12 noon. He's either in or out.




I like your style. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

frusdil said:


> Oh honey, no no no. You've given up far too much already for this selfish man.
> 
> Let me tell you something. I spent years with the wrong man, I tried so hard to work on things with him, make it work, never give up, and due to that I missed my chance to have children. The one thing that I always wanted.
> 
> ...




I am so sorry. I resonate with what you said a lot. I will give an update further down the thread but I just wanted to respond to you individually and tell you that I appreciate you sharing your story with me.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> This. Whatever other positive attributes he may have, this cancels it all out. This is sickeningly selfish. I know it’s hard but you will save yourself decades of heartache if you end this now. Damn I’m so sorry, you deserve so much more.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Thank you so much 3x.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

MEM2020 said:


> Gaz,
> 
> Thank you for sharing that bit below, everything makes sense now. I was trying to reconcile the bit about how he is everything you want, with the earlier comment about sacrifice. This post ties it up.
> 
> ...




You brought up some really good thoughts. I asked him about his past marriage and if he felt he married the wrong person, or if he felt the marriage was where they went wrong. He said (even despite her cheating) that he didn’t feel that he married the wrong person, but that the security of being married made them both lazy. They stopped trying to pursue one another. 

He said he felt our relationship Bf/gf is almost more intimate because we know the either could leave if they wanted to. We have to keep working to keep one another.

I asked him about if I got sick, and without hesitation he said he would take care of me. On a side note- I’ve gotten some back stomach viruses since we’ve been together and he has been doting and wonderful. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

AliceA said:


> I understand his POV of not wanting to be married again. I ponder the idea of getting married a second time and I feel a great aversion to it. I think I have such an aversion to the idea because I gave up so much of myself the first time around. However, if I were to meet someone I truly loved and wanted to spend the rest of my life with, and they wanted to get married, I would marry them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Whoops, Alice. I think I answered your marrying wrong person comment in my above post to Mem. I agree there are no guarantees even in marriage. And I think I desire it mostly because of the security it brings. And maybe that’s wrong. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> two comments from opposite ends of the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree talker. Thank you. I am going to give an update further down that will answer some of the comments raised.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I've always believed that if I'm not 'good enough' for someone to marry me, then I sure as HELL am not good enough to do his laundry, cook for him, sleep with him or spit his kids out for him...._again_...for him.



I absolutely agree.



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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> Indeed. However, from OP's first post I got the sense that it isn't her that would put restrictions on him, it's that he would do it to himself because of him own embedded ideas of how he should act when married. We are slaves to our conditioning to a large degree.


 
Yep. This exactly. 




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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Talk2Me said:


> I got divorced fairly recently and swore up and down I would never get married again. Then, I meet my current g/f and I honestly can't wait to marry her. However, my brother was in a very similar situation and he swore he would never get married again and he is next month. He rode the wave as long as he could until his g/f was basically 2 feet out the door and he proposed. If he loves you truly he will marry you regardless of past experiences. If he is completely against it then he sees you as someone that isn't going to last.




Thank you for your insight, talk2me.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Robert22205 said:


> You each have a right to your best life. I give him credit for being honest.
> 
> However, I think he should have informed you up front vs 1 1 /2 years later (or maybe he did).
> 
> ...




We didn’t talk much about it. When we were first dating (maybe 3 months in) I asked him how He felt about marriage in general. He said he didn’t know if he would ever marry again. I told him I wanted to get married. We tabled it for awhile and then he gave (what I felt like) were seeds of hope over the past several months. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

wilson said:


> I think the fact he was divorced and doesn't want to get married is a sign that he's not in this for the long haul. I expect that if things started to get too hard or there were issues, he would probably walk out rather than try to work it out. That doesn't make him a bad person. Whatever he went through in the past has likely soured him on doing that again. He may have learned that he's really only happy with the BF-GF kind of relationship and he didn't like the married kind of relationship. So his mindset is likely to enjoy things and then move on once it's not fun anymore.
> 
> Is this the longest relationship you've had? At 1.5 years, keep mind that you're still in the very early stages of the relationship. The first year or two of a relationship is much different than years 10 or 20 of the relationship. Pretty much every married couple will say how the first year or two was like heaven. I'm sure your BF would say the same about his marriage that he ultimately ended. You should probably wait at least until years 3 or 4 before you decide if he's the one you want to be with forever.
> 
> ...




Thank you.

I’ve had another a bit longer relationship that lasted a little more than 3 years. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

turnera said:


> This.
> 
> 
> 
> And I will only add...are you SURE that you are in an equitable relationship? He seems to place a high value on freedom and ability to do what he wants when he wants it. Just how much of that is he doing? How many times a month do you find yourself wishing he were home with you? How many times a month do you want to say something but don't for fear of it upsetting him? How many times do the two of you do what he wants to do instead of what you want to do (seeing that you're an introvert)?




He does his own thing a couple nights a week on average. I work a second job and he usually chooses that time to do his solo activities. I don’t usually find myself wishing he were home, but maybe one weekend every few months he goes up to his cabin and I miss him then. I don’t usually fear speaking to him at all. He is a very good listener and open whenever I want to communicate. I would say it’s 50/50 between doing what we both want. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> The two of you should talk about what it would take for the two of you to be happy together. If you have incompatible standards, time to move on. OTOH, if it turns out you don't have the same demands his ex did, there might be something here. Could he then be ok w/ marriage? Could you be ok w/ commitment, but no marriage? If you do stay together, consider having kids via donor sperm.
> 
> 
> 
> A sad possibility is that he is saying this b/c he'd rather say it than that he just wants to break up.




Thank you Norman. I will answer some of these questions in an update further down the thread.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

dadstartingover said:


> Serious question: Marriage... what's in it for him?
> 
> 
> 
> That's Sales 101. You want marriage. Sell him on it. You can't? Well... then there's the problem.




Different POV but worth considering. I never thought about selling him on marrying me, but I guess dating really is selling ourselves to a certain extent.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> You want to get married? That's normal and fine.
> 
> 
> 
> However, do you *really* want to marry someone who admits that he blew up his previous marriage because he is really **** at being married?




To be fair- the marriage ending wasn’t all his fault. He owns his screw ups in the marriage and to me I find that to be a huge sign of growth. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

NextTimeAround said:


> If I were you, I would look into testicular cancer. did he have surgery? How curable is it? IOW, do you believe him?



I am 100% sure he has had testicular cancer and is now cancer free. There is physical evidence. As well as countless family members of his that have spoken to me of his time during chemo. 



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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Pam said:


> I have two (male) cousins, both are my age. They both lived with their girlfriends for several years, then got married (entertainingly, on the same day, and also the same day my brother married the first time). Within a year, both were divorced (my brother's marriage lasted a few years longer but he also divorced). I was stunned, they had been together for years!
> 
> Edit to add, the cousins were on different sides of the family so had never even heard of each other.




Eek. Thanks Pam.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Update:

What you all (for the most part) said really hit home for me. I guess there was nothing like me trying to be totally objective and neutral and still having internet strangers tell me I was needing to move on. I really appreciate the time you all gave me, and I feel like you are all friends. 

So Friday night I read through each of your responses. I felt like you were right and I could not continue in this relationship another year knowing it was going to end with us splitting. I cried all night and was emotionally drained and went to bed early, not talking to him about anything until Saturday morning.

I told him that after what he said I thought I could deal with it until next spring, but I could not. That I appreciated his honesty but felt we were no longer right for one another. I told him how it hurt me that I felt I had sacrificed a lot for us, and he could not do the same. I told him I was willing to take on the rest of our lease myself (it would be tight but I could do it) and I wanted him to find another place to live. 

He began to cry and told me that he never should have told me he would never marry me. That he felt that I put him on the spot and needed an answer, and he didn’t want to tell me we would unless he was absolutely sure. He agreed I have given up a great deal and said he did not want to lose me. 

He brought up his banked sperm (from pre-chemo) and how he was still paying for it and how he had thought about having a child together. (Sidenote: I had not considered his banked sperm as I did not realize he was still paying for storage). He said if I would give him more time (he said less than a year) he would compromise with me. He said he needed to work on himself and his issues with marriage and did not expect me to have to compromise any more than I already have.

In the end- after around 2 hours of talking I told him I would give him 6 more months. I told him I would be banking extra money and if we got to that date and he still felt “he did not see us getting married” there was absolutely 0% chance I would be staying. That I would move on and find a man who loved me enough to marry me.

So... I’m sorry if I disappointed you TAM Fam. I want you to know I absolutely intend on keeping my word about the deadline. I am giving him a bit more time because I feel we owe it to what we’ve been building to try. 

If you have any questions or anything to add I’m still planning on checking this thread.

Thank you again to all of you. 


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

That was a really tough conversation to have, but you did it, so good for you! I hope this shook him up enough to realize that you are his forever, or not... a solid answer either way will pull you out of limbo. 

Wishing the best for you and keep posting, I think it is helping you to know someone has your back. (even if only in cyberspace lol)


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

No disappointment here! Good for you for having that tough conversation. And good for your BF for being open, honest, and not defensive.

Banked sperm!!!! That could be SO wonderful.

Hoping for the best for you. There's no doubt in my mind you two love eachother. 

Appreciate the update.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Gently ...another interpretation about the sperm bank is that he intends to have a child with someone (but after 1 1/2 years he hasn't decided if it's going to be with you). I've seen guys live with a woman for years (using his same story, making promises and expressing how much they loved them) - always putting his needs/issues or whatever ahead of hers - and never marrying her. Since he banked his sperm, the clock is ticking for you but not for him. 

We all want to believe that our relationship is unique. Your situation is not unusual. As was his response (the second thoughts, his 'plans', the tears, blah blah blah). Tears are not an expression of how much he loves you - but rather they are a manipulative tactic to control you. I'm sorry but I've know guys like this. I hope I am wrong but I predict in six months he'll dump more guilt and drama on you - and attempt to keep you on the hook. For example, among other things he'll go with: I've made so much progress with my issues it'd be a shame to kick me out now. 

Is my understanding correct that he may be receptive in 6 months to a compromise vs actually getting married? Why the extension of time? Give him all the time he needs but in the interim (he should move out) it's not fair to you to be out of the dating scene waiting for him. 

At a minimum he should give you 30 day progress reports on his 'issues'. And he should understand that the 6 months extension could be cancelled for lack of progress. In order to protect yourself, from now on judge him on his actions not his promises.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Thank you! I’m a huge Rick & Morty fan
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me too!

Show me what you got!!!!!!

I like what you got.....good job!

:rofl:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Update:
> 
> What you all (for the most part) said really hit home for me. I guess there was nothing like me trying to be totally objective and neutral and still having internet strangers tell me I was needing to move on. I really appreciate the time you all gave me, and I feel like you are all friends.
> 
> ...


 @Gazorpian46, you have not disappointed me. Probably nobody else, either. 

You asked a bunch of folks for our collective advice and thoughts and you took these and you made the decision that was right for you. I wish you both well.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

You've done what you feel is right for you, and that's the best anyone can do. I think you've made what you want in life clear to him and you've been willing to compromise with him to give him time to see if your life goals can align with his, which is excellent imo. I hope you both find what you are looking for, whether that's together or apart.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

If you really love someone, you have to be willing to let them go. That is what you did. He has 6 months to step up to the plate and not a day more. If he is smart, he will make up his mind sooner than later. The sperm bank is a great thing! 

Best of luck. We are rooting for you. Peace and happiness always!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No disappointment here. It's your life. I would just add that, given the gravity of the situation, IIWY, I'd demand to be PART of his 'decision-making process.' He makes it sound like he's going to just magically wake up and be a different person. I'm sorry, but psychologically speaking, I don't see a fix here, unless it's in you deciding to just be with him.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Gazorpian46 said:


> He takes a lot of ownership in her cheating, he said that he had stopped pursuing her, taking time for her. That he cared more about his job.
> Obviously there is no excuse for cheating- but he says he was far from the perfect husband and owns his stuff.


He shouldn't take any ownership of her cheating. That is all on her. No matter how bad a husband he was, it would never justify cheating. If she was that unhappy with him, the appropriate thing would be to divorce. That goes for him as well. No matter how unhappy he was in a marriage, he would not be justified in cheating.

But the other part of what he said is also worth paying attention to. He said he stopped pursuing her and taking time for her. That may also be a concern of his in the future. He may be worried about what happens if he loses that natural attraction he has for you right now. He may be worried that he would only be fully engaged when there is that strong connection. Over time that fades, and he might not be the kind of guy who will be happy in a relationship where the connection is not all hormone based.

It sounds like you guys have good communication and make a good couple, so you might as well keep trying as long as it's working out. Even if you get married and it doesn't work out, oh well. Lots of marriages don't work out even though the couple is totally committed at first. The truth is that even you don't know how you'll feel about a relationship when you're 10 or 20 years into it. The important thing is to stay together because you want to stay together rather than just hanging onto something that isn't working. It sounds like it might be worth taking a chance that it will work out with him. Certainly in 6 months you'll have a much better idea.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Thank you for all your great advice, 2ntnuf.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for understanding my methods of helping you to think. Good luck and have a great life. You deserve it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

But was his ex really the cheater? Sometimes people remember stuff very differently.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Marriage is **** and nothing but empty promises in this day and age so he sounds like a smart guy. Actions will always speak louder than words.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

I like your update.

It's your life, your choices to make.

But he says in a year he may be willing to compromise?

lol

Compromise to what?

I think you are wasting time.

I think he needs a good kick in the azz out the door.

The sooner you put yourself back on the dating market, the better.

You will most likely find someone who loves you, adores you, makes you feel great about yourself, and you will wonder why you wasted so much time with him?

DOn't waste another minute.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Gazorpian46 said:


> I absolutely agree he should be on his knees proposing! I am a good woman and I know I have a lot to offer. It’s not an issue of feeling like I can’t do better- *I love him in a way I never have anyone else.*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is an important factor. Love comes but rarely.

Does he love you the same way? Be honest.

Obviously, one can never know these things, without fail.

If you truly believe that he does, than you need to work this HARD to your advantage.

I am a graphic poster...sorry.

First, get him in an impossibly unfair situation.

Lying on top of him, with both of you naked, open your heart.

Tell him how you truly feel.

That you love him with all your heart.
That you want to spend the rest of your life with him.
That you will only do this as a married woman, not as a live-in roommate.

While telling him this, gently hold his mute, his smaller anxious head.... 

Let him express himself.

Tell him he does not have to answer today, but answer he must.

Be calm the whole time.

................................................................

If he agrees to marriage, much later, ask...

Ask his opinion on getting a sperm donor (in vitro) so you can have a baby.

Or, ask what he thinks about adopting a child. A boy or a girl.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Sounds to me your BF wants all the benefits of a W but not actually being married. Cake eating 101. Call it a day with this as there is no commitment.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> Marriage is **** and nothing but empty promises in this day and age so he sounds like a smart guy. Actions will always speak louder than words.



Not in everyone's world.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Marriage is marriage, is a paper, is a contract, is a promise.

This, Dear Women is in love, let her work on him.

Love conquers paper, paper conquers scissors.

Rocks conquer scissors, rocks need not be thrown.

What she wants, she can only get with love.

Her love, and his scissors cutting loose his fears.

Her loving hand on top of his, doing the snip, snipping.

Love is so much a gift.





[THM]- The Typist I


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Have you two thought of getting some couple's counseling? And, perhaps, some individual counseling for him?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

And maybe he'll be "the one" that got away?......


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

karole said:


> Have you two thought of getting some couple's counseling? And, perhaps, some individual counseling for him?


Or call Uber for him?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I feel like the OP needs this time to detach a bit and that's it's not just about giving him 6 months to vacillate over marriage.

HER: After 1 1/2 years, and she knows she wants the whole package: passion, intimacy, and commitment. Of course, she probably knew that quite early since she took children off the table in order to remain with him. That's a fully committed woman. It's going to take her some time to let go.

HIM: After 1 1/2 years all he knows for sure is that he wants passion and intimacy with the OP and took commitment off the table until push came to shove and has decided he'll 'think about it' because he didn't want to lose the passion and intimacy (of course). He's even dangled the carrot of children at her to keep her hanging on. That part has me a bit horrified (the fact that he would use her wish to have children like that, not the idea of them having kids).


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Smart man. Not directed at you. I would tell all men to not get married.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Who took children off the table? Did he tell you he didn't want children or you assumed he didn't want children? If he has banked sperm that he is paying to maintain, he is interested in having children.

I wonder in what kind of relationship does he envision himself having children?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

What has your boyfriend sacrificed to be with you?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

My question is, is this the first you’ve heard about the banked sperm?


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Gazorpian none of us know you or your man and we all come at this with some bias based upon our personal experience. I'll play devils advocate: would you like a truly great relationship with someone without the legality of marriage or would you like the legality of marriage to someone you may eventually come to despise cause he was not the one but was willing to marry you? Its not necessarily one or the other of course but many of us have married and crapped out so its possible to think you are going to have a great marriage and it goes bust. Some have mentioned that they thought after that experience they could never marry again -(full disclosure I feel like that so take what I write from that perspective). Being in a bad marriage is very, very difficult, much less ass pain to end things without the marriage. Maybe thats where your man is mentally due to what previously happened. I have an 11 year old boy so I get what you are saying regarding children. Last thought here is something to ponder: ultimatims are usually counterproductive because they force someone to decide quickly to something that they may not be ready to consider and maybe they make the easiest decision abruptly rather than the best one. All the best.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

@Gazorpian46 do yourself one huge favor before considering staying in this relationship one more day.
Ask for proof of the sperm storage. It seems very apropos at the stage of your conversation when you are stating that you gave up the chance of having children to be with him, he brings up the fact that he has sperm frozen.
The six months is another worrying idea. If he decides that he will marry you but wants to wait to surprise you with a proposal you could be in exactly the same situation that you are in now. And maybe he wants an engagement of a few years before marriage. 
I wish you nothing but the best but unlike every other poster (so far) I am disappointed. For you. 
I think you got played.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm hesitant to post this because I think there are some significant issues in this relationship.... BUT...I don't think a year and a half is too long re deciding to marry someone or not. Maybe it's because I'm older and my perspective is different now, but, so many things can change after the 2 yearish limerence phase ends. I don't think it's outlandish to wait that long to decide to commit to someone for life.

I'll state again though, I think this relationship is problematic and I'm unsure it sounds like your boyfriend is in love with you.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

What if he were to come back to you & say, "Won't get married but we can have a family together?"

Would that be enough commitment? If so, it may be enough of a compromise for now. 

Also look into laws in your jurisdiction regarding common-law marriage. If you have a child and stay together for some time, it may turn out that you are considered married in the eyes of the state.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

MarriedTex said:


> What if he were to come back to you & say, "Won't get married but we can have a family together?"
> 
> Would that be enough commitment? If so, it may be enough of a compromise for now.
> 
> Also look into laws in your jurisdiction regarding common-law marriage. If you have a child and stay together for some time, it may turn out that you are considered married in the eyes of the state.



Kind of like this:


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> That was a really tough conversation to have, but you did it, so good for you! I hope this shook him up enough to realize that you are his forever, or not... a solid answer either way will pull you out of limbo.
> 
> 
> 
> Wishing the best for you and keep posting, I think it is helping you to know someone has your back. (even if only in cyberspace lol)




Absolutely. I will be back to give an update- whether good or bad. I have a tendency to give and just keep giving in a relationship- so you guys helped sober me up a bit. I was really needing it and appreciate you all so much. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> No disappointment here! Good for you for having that tough conversation. And good for your BF for being open, honest, and not defensive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you Lucy. I really appreciate your optimism and hope. I am needing as much of it as I can get. 

And I do absolutely believe he loves me and I love him. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Robert22205 said:


> Gently ...another interpretation about the sperm bank is that he intends to have a child with someone (but after 1 1/2 years he hasn't decided if it's going to be with you). I've seen guys live with a woman for years (using his same story, making promises and expressing how much they loved them) - always putting his needs/issues or whatever ahead of hers - and never marrying her. Since he banked his sperm, the clock is ticking for you but not for him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hello Robert. Wonderful insights, much appreciated.

I do have some details on the sperm storage thing that may help illuminate things. 

When we were first dating he mentioned that before his chemo began his drs recommended he bank sperm in case he wanted to have children in the future- as the chemo would likely leave him sterile. He told me he was paying on it but wasn’t sure if it was “still good” since it had been over 10 years. He said he had continued to pay on it because of some tie he felt it had to his masculinity he wasn’t ready to let go. I didn’t really understand that part so I’m not translating well.

Turns out if stored in optimal conditions sperm can last a very long time. When we had our deep conversation he told me when I came into his life I was a factor in him continuing to pay for it- in the possibility we would use it in the future (via IVF or IUI). So I found out that weekend he was still paying on it each month. 

I agree tears can often be used to manipulate- but I don’t feel in my intuition this was the case with him. I think they were genuine.

I also agree he should be judged on actions and not words- and in every other way he is a man of action. He is not one to be wordy or say things flippantly. We have even discussed at length how I’d like him to be more verbally affirming (it’s my love language) because it does not come naturally to him and he is also far from a flatterer. I also know when he has made up his mind to do something- he does it. 

I was the first to want to live together. He mulled it over for a bit but when he decided we would go forward he never wavered. 

I will think about the 30 day progress reports- it’s an interesting idea...





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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> @Gazorpian46, you have not disappointed me. Probably nobody else, either.
> 
> 
> 
> You asked a bunch of folks for our collective advice and thoughts and you took these and you made the decision that was right for you. I wish you both well.




Thank you, Matt 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

AliceA said:


> You've done what you feel is right for you, and that's the best anyone can do. I think you've made what you want in life clear to him and you've been willing to compromise with him to give him time to see if your life goals can align with his, which is excellent imo. I hope you both find what you are looking for, whether that's together or apart.




I really appreciate you, Alice. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Bibi1031 said:


> If you really love someone, you have to be willing to let them go. That is what you did. He has 6 months to step up to the plate and not a day more. If he is smart, he will make up his mind sooner than later. The sperm bank is a great thing!
> 
> 
> 
> Best of luck. We are rooting for you. Peace and happiness always!




Peace and love Bibi. Your support means so much. Thank you 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

turnera said:


> No disappointment here. It's your life. I would just add that, given the gravity of the situation, IIWY, I'd demand to be PART of his 'decision-making process.' He makes it sound like he's going to just magically wake up and be a different person. I'm sorry, but psychologically speaking, I don't see a fix here, unless it's in you deciding to just be with him.




Thank you turnera. Me deciding to sacrifice children and marriage while he gets everything he wants is not an option for me. I do believe love is unselfish- but I’m not going to be a doormat here. So if there is no compromise in 6 months there’s no relationship or cake eating. 


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I've been the giver in my marriage for 40 years, as my resentment grew that I always dropped everything to help him but he rarely returned the favor. It wasn't until he discovered that I have a box I'm storing my most important things in - so I can just pick up the box and leave when I'm finally fed up - that he started taking me seriously. Unconditional love doesn't belong in a marriage.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Unconditional love does belong in a marriage, but that doesn't mean a person has to put up with being treated poorly. You can love someone unconditionally and not stay with them.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

wilson said:


> He shouldn't take any ownership of her cheating. That is all on her. No matter how bad a husband he was, it would never justify cheating. If she was that unhappy with him, the appropriate thing would be to divorce. That goes for him as well. No matter how unhappy he was in a marriage, he would not be justified in cheating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Absolutely. I worded that poorly. What I should’ve said was “he takes ownership in neglecting her in their marriage”. 

I did communicate this- as it was a concern for me as well. (The become less attracted and stop pursuing) I’m sorry I don’t know how to respond to specific parts of posts. 

He said he feels it is both partners jobs’ to keep pursuing one another and keep things interesting. I’m not so sure that I’m 100% secure in his response and we need to explore that one. Again- before his “never seeing us married” comment I never questioned his commitment to me- and now it’s (justifiably) an insecurity of mine. 




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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

2ntnuf said:


> Thank you for understanding my methods of helping you to think. Good luck and have a great life. You deserve it.




Thank you so much 2ntnuf. *Hugs*


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> But was his ex really the cheater? Sometimes people remember stuff very differently.




Yes, she ended up marrying her cheating partner and became pregnant with his child.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

BruceBanner said:


> Marriage is **** and nothing but empty promises in this day and age so he sounds like a smart guy. Actions will always speak louder than words.




Hey Bruce. Thanks for your response. I’d like to hear more from you on why you feel marriage is such a bad decision for men.

I appreciate the feedback. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

FieryHairedLady said:


> I like your update.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you, Fiery. I will address this in a response below. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> This is an important factor. Love comes but rarely.
> 
> Does he love you the same way? Be honest.
> 
> ...




Thank you, Sun. I know he is open to invitro and IUI. He seemed against me using another man’s sperm to become pregnant. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Yeswecan said:


> Sounds to me your BF wants all the benefits of a W but not actually being married. Cake eating 101. Call it a day with this as there is no commitment.




Thank you, Yeswecan. There are other posters with this same sentiment so I will respond further below. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> Marriage is marriage, is a paper, is a contract, is a promise.
> 
> This, Dear Women is in love, let her work on him.
> 
> ...




Love it 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

karole said:


> Have you two thought of getting some couple's counseling? And, perhaps, some individual counseling for him?




You know I haven’t until this point. I want to be very careful with the couples counseling. I don’t want to go complain about one another for an hour each week, I’m only interested in a counselor who will help us build ourselves and each other up and find commonality. Not create dissension. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

StillSearching said:


> And maybe he'll be "the one" that got away?......




Maybe... there is a part of me that will always wonder should we part ways. I cannot express enough how wonderful this man is to me and how loved he makes me feel.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Yeswecan said:


> Or call Uber for him?







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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Thound said:


> Smart man. Not directed at you. I would tell all men to not get married.




Thanks Thound. Feel free to elaborate on that if it doesn’t violate any TAM rules. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> Who took children off the table? Did he tell you he didn't want children or you assumed he didn't want children? If he has banked sperm that he is paying to maintain, he is interested in having children.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder in what kind of relationship does he envision himself having children?




He did not take children off the table previously. I was under the impression he was of the belief his sperm was no longer good and would stop paying for storage. Until that point he had paid for it because he felt it was tied to his masculinity. Again- as I told Robert I didn’t really understand what he was saying and am translating poorly. After doing research he found that it did not expire after 10 years as he thought if stored optimally. He said (when we had the big talk) he continued to pay for it because I was in his life and he thought we could potentially use his samples in the future. 

So I guess I was the one to take children off the table- thinking his samples were not able to be used.

I could also ask for verification of storage and that he is still paying on them. I do trust him though. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> What has your boyfriend sacrificed to be with you?




Money and time, and his solo living. He quite liked living alone and was content to stay that way- but he said he wanted to “go all in” with me. Again he said this when we had the Big Talk. 

Time is the most valuable thing to him. 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> My question is, is this the first you’ve heard about the banked sperm?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




No, I have answered this above 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

SongoftheSouth said:


> Gazorpian none of us know you or your man and we all come at this with some bias based upon our personal experience. I'll play devils advocate: would you like a truly great relationship with someone without the legality of marriage or would you like the legality of marriage to someone you may eventually come to despise cause he was not the one but was willing to marry you? Its not necessarily one or the other of course but many of us have married and crapped out so its possible to think you are going to have a great marriage and it goes bust. Some have mentioned that they thought after that experience they could never marry again -(full disclosure I feel like that so take what I write from that perspective). Being in a bad marriage is very, very difficult, much less ass pain to end things without the marriage. Maybe thats where your man is mentally due to what previously happened. I have an 11 year old boy so I get what you are saying regarding children. Last thought here is something to ponder: ultimatims are usually counterproductive because they force someone to decide quickly to something that they may not be ready to consider and maybe they make the easiest decision abruptly rather than the best one. All the best.




I think for me it’s not so much the legality of the marriage, but the commitment it symbolizes. I want to know the man I’m with is totally sold out for me. I know people change, bad things happen and marriages dissolve. But how do they say- no risk, no reward? If he doesn’t feel I’m worth taking the risk than what kind of love is that truly? 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Andy1001 said:


> @Gazorpian46 do yourself one huge favor before considering staying in this relationship one more day.
> 
> Ask for proof of the sperm storage. It seems very apropos at the stage of your conversation when you are stating that you gave up the chance of having children to be with him, he brings up the fact that he has sperm frozen.
> 
> ...




I will ask to see the proof. Any ideas on how I can do that in a respectful way? 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Livvie said:


> I'm hesitant to post this because I think there are some significant issues in this relationship.... BUT...I don't think a year and a half is too long re deciding to marry someone or not. Maybe it's because I'm older and my perspective is different now, but, so many things can change after the 2 yearish limerence phase ends. I don't think it's outlandish to wait that long to decide to commit to someone for life.
> 
> I'll state again though, I think this relationship is problematic and I'm unsure it sounds like your boyfriend is in love with you.




Thank you Livvie 


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

MarriedTex said:


> What if he were to come back to you & say, "Won't get married but we can have a family together?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Children would be enough of a commitment for me. He would be an absolutely fantastic father. And the idea of building a family with him fills me with joy. So yes- children without the marriage would be enough. Our chances are just very, very low.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

NextTimeAround said:


> Kind of like this:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU9Z4i245Q4




I may have to watch that movie now.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Children would be enough of a commitment for me. He would be an absolutely fantastic father. And the idea of building a family with him fills me with joy. So yes- children without the marriage would be enough. Our chances are just very, very low.


I don't know about that. Women get pregnant from banked sperm all the time. They time the insemination with your cycle to optimize the opportunity for pregnancy.


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## Gazorpian46 (Jun 7, 2019)

Okay- so doing a bigger response to those that posted feeling I am being played or am making a mistake. I have been thinking about this at great length. 

I really appreciate all the concerns you are bringing to me. And I’m listening to each one and carefully considering them- so please know I am not being flippant in my response. 

I am in my early 30s. I have spent the past year and a half of my life loving and being loved by an extraordinary man. I could go a bit into my history- how I’ve been in abusive relationships, how I’ve been cheated on and abandoned. But it takes more than the lack of abuse to make a good relationship- and it sounds so silly, but I didn’t know that. All I knew was hurt and pain. 

I decided to get some counseling, read a lot of books, and deal with my ****. And then along comes my boyfriend. And he wasn’t just good for me because he was the first guy to not abuse me- he was good for me because he is wholly good. To his core. And that flows out in the way he loves and treats me. I have never been this respected, this admired, this beloved. 

So- should this relationship end in 6 months, it was absolutely not a waste of my time. The gift he gave me of his love and his companionship could never be a waste. He helped me believe in love again- and fall in love with myself because of what he saw in me. And I know I probably sound over romantic and silly but it’s true.

I have not wasted my time with him at all. So- no regrets.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Gazorpian46 said:


> I will ask to see the proof. Any ideas on how I can do that in a respectful way?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


“Boyfriend you kinda caught me by surprise when you appeared to have a change of heart about our future and children”. “ Where is your sperm stored and can we check that it’s still good”.
If he tries to guilt trip you in any way about not trusting him then tell him that you too have a value in this relationship,it’s not all about him.And if he can’t accept this reasonable request then maybe it’s better to part.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Money and time, and his solo living. He quite liked living alone and was content to stay that way- but he said he wanted to “go all in” with me. Again he said this when we had the Big Talk.
> 
> Time is the most valuable thing to him.


Talk is cheap. Look, my daughter is in a similar situation. Her BF talks marriage. Looks at rings. Shares pictures with my other daughter. Wants an opinion. Then its always followed with, "When I get this sorted. When this gets paid." These things her BF is talking about is items for himself. His latest example, his engine blew up in his car. Dealer said they would replace it for free and give it a 100k mile warranted. Car is just about paid off. He traded it in for a new car. Well my dear, there he goes again with, "When this get sorted, when this new car is paid." Your engagement ring is sitting out in the driveway. In 5 years we can talk ring. 
He will string it along and enjoying the money our daughter generates. Enjoys the other benefits as well. There is zero commitment. 

Talk is cheap. You can have the big talk all day....you will not change a person.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Gazorpian46 said:


> I think for me it’s not so much the legality of the marriage, but the commitment it symbolizes. I want to know the man I’m with is totally sold out for me. I know people change, bad things happen and marriages dissolve. But how do they say- no risk, no reward? If he doesn’t feel I’m worth taking the risk than what kind of love is that truly?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No risk, no reward does not pertain to marriage. It appears to me you are trying to convince yourself. If you are having to convince you BF....there is a problem. 

If your BF feels he is taking a risk it's a problem. You two are no where near marriage material to each other if the feeling of risk is involved.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Thanks Thound. Feel free to elaborate on that if it doesn’t violate any TAM rules.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't want to thread jack. Just hop on over to "Sex in Marriage" forums and see.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Children would be enough of a commitment for me. He would be an absolutely fantastic father. And the idea of building a family with him fills me with joy. So yes- children without the marriage would be enough. Our chances are just very, very low.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If a man doesn't love you enough to give you the respect, honor, and security of marrying you, do NOT have his children.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

Can't read all of this, but it won't work. He likes his freedom. And kids wouldn't give him freedom either.

I'll bet when he meets someone hes head over heels for, he will marry them. It's just not you.


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## cheapie (Aug 6, 2018)

FieryHairedLady said:


> If a man doesn't love you enough to give you the respect, honor, and security of marrying you, do NOT have his children.


This.

My husband thought enough of me to marry me BEFORE he knocked me up.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He sounds great. I just have one comment. It's from a psychological perspective. He is who he is. His reasons for not committing, they're tied up in his near-death experience, his FOO, his own personality, his past girlfriend experiences, his self esteem, his FOMO. Meaning, it's complicated! 

Like I said before, he's not just going to wake up some day and say 'wow! I need to be married!' He has to work THROUGH all that sh*t and even then you don't know if he's going to choose what makes you happy. 

I get that he's worth waiting for. I'm just saying if this is what you really want, you need to educate yourself - and him - on what the hell is going on in his head. IMO, it won't happen without him (and hopefully you) going to therapy. If you want something, you work for it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

turnera said:


> He sounds great. I just have one comment. It's from a psychological perspective. He is who he is. His reasons for not committing, they're tied up in his near-death experience, his FOO, his own personality, his past girlfriend experiences, his self esteem, his FOMO. Meaning, it's complicated!
> 
> Like I said before, he's not just going to wake up some day and say 'wow! I need to be married!' He has to work THROUGH all that sh*t and even then you don't know if he's going to choose what makes you happy.
> 
> I get that he's worth waiting for. I'm just saying if this is what you really want, you need to educate yourself - and him - on what the hell is going on in his head. IMO, it won't happen without him (and hopefully you) going to therapy. If you want something, you work for it.


Just saying.... Someone who doesn't want to be married isn't necessarily broken-- such that they need to fix it by going to therapy...

Sometimes our past experiences shape what we are or are not interested in for our future (example: not really wanting or needing to be married) and that shaping isn't always a bad thing, as something that needs to change.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

There are certain things that absolutely have to be dealbreakers. Abuse is one. Infidelity is another. Presumably, you have your own list of dealbreakers. I can understand if this issue is of one of them and can also understand if you decide to stay with him in spite of this difference in preferences. I mean, I WOULD understand if it were simple as just differences in preferences.

I want to advise two things, but first I want to get off my chest that I really think his reasons for not wanting to marry are just a bunch of fooey. You're taking him into consideration, which you should do, but none of it is so cut and dry as you are taking it. Generally, a person doesn't want to listen to dissenting opinions, so you will have to wait and see for yourself. I hate to admonish that it will feel awful for you. The logical aspect of the situation is that you and he have lived together long enough for him to know what he would be getting into. He's enjoying it but doesn't want it on a permanent basis. So, you should move on. It boils down to your own principles and standards. But I really hope you won't have children with him until you are married.

For many years, I worked closely with funeral homes and with the bereaved during their time of need. Not to place a morbid note on the subject, but what I want to bring your attention to is how many times I met women who had lived with their boyfriend for 10, 15, 20 years, some of whom didn't marry because they didn't want to and some because he didn't want to. But when tragedy occurred, (which was the reason I had occasion to meet them), they had found themselves left out in the cold. In some instances, the woman got put out of his house by his children, or by his parents and siblings, or even one woman was put out by his ex wife. The house had been the girlfriend's home all those years, but she had no rights to it. He didn't provide for her and didn't protect her.

There were times that the children or siblings went into a woman's house and took everything they could that belonged to him. 

It depends on the rules of the governing body, but some states, or some employers/organizations, or some insurance companies will not allow girlfriends to be named as beneficiary, so there was no insurance policy for some of those women. They had lived a lifestyle based on his or both their incomes, so she had to seriously downsize even to the point of moving out, or turning off the cable, or selling her car for a cheaper one.

And even though ex-wives could not be named as beneficiary (because his policy voids her claim upon divorce), there was one case where the guy's ex-wife received the insurance money because his minor child was named as beneficiary. Since she was the child's mother, she was named as custodian, so she received the money on the child's behalf, but the girlfriend of 12 years received nothing. And guess what? The ex refused to pay for his funeral.

What I'm suggesting is you take care to make sure you are not left in a precarious position like these women. Marriage means security on every level and is a woman's innate and primal need. She needs a man to not only profess his love but to also show his love by providing for her and protecting her, Steve Harvey's definition of a man's role in relationships and marriage - Profess. Provide. Protect.

People don't normally think of death when considering long-term relationships, but illness happens, accidents happen, strokes and heart attacks happen. Should you decide to remain with him, make sure you protect each other even though he doesn't want to marry you. You are not to allow yourself to be used by him only to end up with nothing if something happens to him. If he does nothing and dies intestate, his estate goes into probate, and you will be left out with no rights and no claim. So, get an insurance policy on each other and also each of you do a will. And, if you buy anything together - house, car, whatever - make sure both your names are on the deed/title.

The second thing is if you do have any children with him, make sure they are protected and provided for as well.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Okay- so doing a bigger response to those that posted feeling I am being played or am making a mistake. I have been thinking about this at great length.
> 
> I really appreciate all the concerns you are bringing to me. And I’m listening to each one and carefully considering them- so please know I am not being flippant in my response.
> 
> ...


Everyone here is only seeing some surface facts, without any depth of understanding of how either of you really think or feel. While he may have not come over as smelling like roses, it could be that you're really in this because you can see below the surface and what you see is telling you stay. I wouldn't pay too much attention to us, lol, especially the marriage nay sayers who have had bad experiences and think everyone else will too (BTW a forum full of men complaining about their sex lives is not a good representation of the population imo, sort of like going to a butcher and thinking that because all you see there is meat, that people don't eat anything else, lol). 

You want what you want, and I think that both the man and the woman take a risk in getting married because any relationship has a chance of failing. It's hard on both parties when that happens, but where some see the divorce rate, others see how many are still in love in their dotage. The optimist sees the doughnut, the pessimist sees the hole.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Livvie said:


> Just saying.... Someone who doesn't want to be married isn't necessarily broken-- such that they need to fix it by going to therapy...
> 
> Sometimes our past experiences shape what we are or are not interested in for our future (example: not really wanting or needing to be married) and that shaping isn't always a bad thing, as something that needs to change.


I didn't mean he was broken; I meant that if she is trying to get him to reach a different conclusion than he's already reached, it won't just happen. He's that way for a reason.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree with StarFires in that you need to think carefully about legal and financial consequences of marrying vs. not marrying.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Gazorpian46 said:


> He told me last night that he doesn’t “ever see us getting married”. The reason is that he was married in the past and says he did not like who he became when he was married. He said he felt like marriage limited his freedom and he was always having to ask his ex for permission to do things. He felt obligated to stay home with her and fill a role.


In the movie "When Harry Met Sally" Sally lives with a partner for many years that claims that he does not want to ever get married, because he does not believe in it. After she leaves him because of this, she bumps into her former partner at a store where he introduces her to his wife. When Sally starts to cry after they walk away, Harry asks Sally why she was crying because Harry thought that Sally was over her former partner. Sally tells Harry, I am not crying because I am not over him, I am crying because I just realized that when he said that he did not want to ever marry, what he really meant was that "he did not want to every marry me".


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Gazorpian46 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I have been dating my boyfriend for a year and a half. And it’s been a fantastic relationship.
> 
> ...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

A girl I know was told by her partner of a year that he didn't want to ever marry. This was after a year of dating and both discussing them marrying at some point and agreeing they would. Shortly after that she ended it, she had already wasted enough time on him.

I would not live with a man unless he married me first, and him refusing to get married would be a total deal breaker. Cant be bothered with a man who wont commit.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Gazorpian46 said:


> He told me last night that he doesn’t “ever see us getting married”. The reason is that he was married in the past and says he did not like who he became when he was married. He said he felt like marriage limited his freedom and he was always having to ask his ex for permission to do things. He felt obligated to stay home with her and fill a role.


How long do you have? 

You say you openly discuss issues and if the above is the only reason he does not want to remarry it may be worthwhile for him to drill down the reason he felt obligated and like he did not have his freedom.

Out of curiosity - does he often do things for other people that later he resents or complains about?


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## RubyRing (Jun 13, 2016)

FieryHairedLady said:


> I like your update.
> 
> It's your life, your choices to make.
> 
> ...




I have to agree, so sorry to the OP, but it sounds to me like he is just kicking the can down the road. He says he is willing to "compromise" in a year, not that he is willing to MARRY you in a year. Sorry again, I know you love him, but it sounds like he is being very manipulative to get everything he wants, while you get nothing. He went from "I will NEVER marry you, and I CAN'T give you children", to "Maybe we can compromise in a year, and HEY, I suddenly remembered I have some banked sperm".

PLEASE, don't fall for this. My first hubby had a vasectemy. I didn't want children when I married him, so it was no deal breaker. After he cheated on me and we broke up, I decided I wanted children. A few years later he tried to get back together with me. I told him "NO, I have changed my mind on having children, and in fact, I very much desire them, so we won't work". Then he went babbling on about a vasectemy by pass (not a reversal, but extracting the sperm and insemination). I told him after 10 years, he probably isn't producing any sperm to extract, and even if he was, the chances of achieving a pregnancy were still very slim. He pressed on that we could at least try it and see. Finally I told him, " I don't want YOUR baby". Shortly after that, I met my 2nd hubby and we had a beautiful baby boy who is now a grown man. My son brings me so much joy. I shudder to think that at one time I didn't want children, and I am so glad that I had my son, even though his father ended up disappointing me. We did have 10 good years together but we were married for 23 years. Still, I can't regret that marriage because I adore my son and can't imagine my life without him.

Please don't stay another day with this guy. He is stringing you along with an empty promise of a "compromise" (not marriage) and who knows if he really has banked his sperm ? Even so, pregnancy through AI is harder to achieve.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I would hate to think of you as middle aged, past child bearing years, single and filled with regret that you wasted years with him. Especially if he marries his next GF shortly after your inevetible break up and adopts 2 chidren with her.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like you're an option, OP. In a way, it sounds like if he doesn't see anyone else out there better than you, he'll consider marriage. 

I'd break up and find someone who doesn't play with your heart like this.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

TRy said:


> In the movie "When Harry Met Sally" Sally lives with a partner for many years that claims that he does not want to ever get married, because he does not believe in it. After she leaves him because of this, she bumps into her former partner at a store where he introduces her to his wife. When Sally starts to cry after they walk away, Harry asks Sally why she was crying because Harry thought that Sally was over her former partner. Sally tells Harry, I am not crying because I am not over him, I am crying because I just realized that when he said that he did not want to ever marry, what he really meant was that "he did not want to every marry me".


I agree that the movie scene appears to reflect a common occurrence in reality, from what I've seen of relationships.

I don't think the guy might even really fully grasp what he is thinking, but it's just how he feels at that point in time. He doesn't want to marry the person he's with, therefore he "doesn't want to marry". He's not thinking of a future where he might meet a woman he *does* want to marry, because that might never eventuate.


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