# Rejection double standard



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Hi folks. Wasn't sure if this question made more sense in here or sex in marriage but I wanted to get thoughts from men and women.

Most of the things I read here and in external sources say you should never reject your wife. WTF? So constant rejection of me is OK but not her?

The reason that I ask is that we haven't been together in a couple of weeks and her birthday is this week and I am working from home on Friday so conditions will be ideal and I am sure I will be "allowed" to be with her.

Right now, I don't know if I want to be. If I am being totally honest, part of it is to make her feel like I feel most of the time but I am also slowly starting to not care. I'm tired of feeling like just being another check mark on her todo list rather than her having even the slightest real desire to be with me...

Any words of wisdom??


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Where did you read that it is OK for your wife to reject you? I can't imagine anyone saying that.

Your feelings are perfectly understandable. What is your theory about why your wife does not care about your needs?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I have two books by the same author. The sex starved marriage and the sex starved wife. She advocates in certain circumstances rejecting the LD wife or husband. It's a method employed in a grander scheme of basically the 180 where you get on with your life with or WITHOUT them in it. If you accept crumbs and act all happy with that then crumbs is all you will ever get.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't think it is that she doesn't care it is that she doesn't "get it" even though we have discussed it ad nauseum. She is an acts of service person so she feels she is showing her love for me by keeping a nice house, taking care of the kids, making my dinners, etc. And she does do a great job of that.

Oh and I didn't say that I read that rejecting me is OK just that most things seem to say that you should NEVER reject your wife.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I'm tired of feeling like just being another check mark on her todo list rather than her having even the slightest real desire to be with me...
> 
> Any words of wisdom??


Unfortunately, becasue you have chosen to stay, this is your life, since you can't make her change. Unless you get out of the situation where you can have a shot at a happier life.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Hi folks. Wasn't sure if this question made more sense in here or sex in marriage but I wanted to get thoughts from men and women.
> 
> Most of the things I read here and in external sources say you should never reject your wife. WTF? So constant rejection of me is OK but not her?
> 
> ...


If you honestly feel like your starting not too care then be honest with her and your reason why.

I'm not really interested to make love because of your poor attitude twords sex in general and its importance to me so I'd rather not. When you start taking my needs seriously then we'll talk.
You selfish fing b*tch!.......oops you might want to leave the last part out no matter how strong you might want to say it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

frustr8d,

Know what you mean and I feel similaer to you. Part of the reason I don't want to be with her the next time she's actually in the mood is I want her to feel the same rejection she's put me through.

I also find that as time passes and I find other things to do, I care less. However, having been down this path before, I know I am weaker than she is and I have caved in the past! That usually starts the cycle all over again with improved frequency for a while and then back to the typical cycle.

Only words of wisdom is try talking to her again about what you both need/want in this area. 

I plan to try this again and after that, if it goes back to the same old ways, I don't know what I'm going to do.

I do plan on pushing the MD thing with her to get her hormone levels (especially testosterone) checked but after that, I'm at a loss


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

If you have told her ad nauseum and she still refuses to listen, then you have a decision to make. Is it worth it to stay in a marriage without a sexual connection? Does your wife know how serious this is?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I don't think it is that she doesn't care it is that she doesn't "get it" even though we have discussed it ad nauseum.


I am going to say this with kindness and heartfelt emotion.

They DO get it. They aren't stupid and they have mastery of the English language. They just don't want to. Been there done that with my husband and have "sucker" stamped on my forehead to prove it.

Until I stood up to my husband with 100% over the top self confidence that I deserved BETTER than his lame ass excuses nothing changed and nothing was ever going to change.

If he didn't want to have sex with me then I was damn sure going to find someone who did. Period end of story.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> I am going to say this with kindness and heartfelt emotion.
> 
> They DO get it. They aren't stupid and they have mastery of the English language. They just don't want to. Been there done that with my husband and have "sucker" stamped on my forehead to prove it.
> 
> ...


I am going to disagree a bit, because I think all too often, our words and are actions conflict with one another. By that I mean although we may say it is important, we continue to do all the loving things we always did when things were good. That communicates that while we would like it to change, it is not that important to us. It is the difference between getting chicken instead of steak versus not getting fed at all.

By pulling back, as the OP is considering, it makes actions consistent with the words. When the LD spouse approaches, you can then explain why you are pulling back to reinforce.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Angel,

Do you have a sister for me?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I am going to disagree a bit, because I think all too often, our words and are actions conflict with one another. By that I mean although we may say it is important, we continue to do all the loving things we always did when things were good. That communicates that while we would like it to change, it is not that important to us. It is the difference between getting chicken instead of steak versus not getting fed at all.


I agree whole heartedly with this. All of it. My words and actions absolutely conflicted with each other. It's hard to explain how I fixed this in one short post. I'd complain and even when nothing changed I was still a fabulous wife. I'd still look nice, was thin, worked out, clean the house, cook, the works. And it was all B.S. He got the message that life was just peachy by my ACTIONS so he followed that not my words.

It took getting my actions AND my words to match up before I saw real change.

So to your post I say :iagree:


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I think they know why they don't want to have sex too. Maybe its to painful for her to tell you, but her actions are already doing that for her. 

Some people are simply checked out of the marriage, enough to want to stay and reap the benefits of the other parts of the marriage, but checked out enough to not want to have the sexual part. You can talk to her all day long about how you feel, put your foot down etc, it may work may not. In the end you will have to decide what is truly a breaking point for you. Staying in hopes shes sees the light, or leaving and maybe giving yourself a possible shot at finding some kind of happiness.


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## rundown (Mar 21, 2012)

If you accept crumbs and act all happy with that then crumbs is all you will ever get.[/QUOTE said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> This isn't something I came to easily. By the 3rd year of our marriage we were only having sex about once per month. He was nice about it and never nagged or fought with me over it. He would drop little hints about articles he read in men's health or how our sex life was when we first started sleeping together. It took ME sitting down and really going over things in my head to get it. How would I feel if he wasn't meeting my emotional needs? So I made kind of a pact with myself and with him. I AM going to initiate more often. I am NOT going to reject unless I have a valid reason. I AM going to try and have sex at least 3 times per week. I discussed this with my H and he has held me to it.


This is great Angel, and you should be proud about the fact that you were self aware enough to really look at the issue.

I do think this is the exception, not the rule. I think a lot of LD partners don't really *feel* that it is a big deal. I tell my wife all the time that I like pork for meals. I order it when we go out and I have mentioned it a number of times. So she goes ahead a never cooks it at home because she actively dislikes it. 

So why, despite my all but saying it is a big deal does she do this? Because my actions clearly communicate that it is not a big deal. And the reality is that it is not a big deal so I don't make it one. So when I complained about our sex life (not as bad as you mention, but only about once ever 10-14 days), yet continued to do all the things that I had always done, I was foolish to expect a different reaction. For all my talk, I had effectively communicated that it was just not that big of a deal. I had to make changes at my end (both in bettering my self and in aligning my actions with my words) to get me wife to really *feel* that this was a big issue for me. She responded wonderfully and things are much better.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Angel5112 said:


> I do agree with this. I got it without him really changing his actions which isn't likely to happen with most LD spouses.


As long as the LD spouse is allowed to call the shots they have no reason, no real motivation to change. It's simply not important to them. The key is to make them FEEL it from another angle. Sex may not be important to them but there are other needs that are. That is an eye opening experience to the LD spouse if done correctly.

I don't believe the HD spouse should call the shots either. I'm just saying both spouses have DIFFERENT needs. I meet yours and you meet mine and then we are both happy. Think win/win.

With LD spouses it's most of the time win/lose until the HD spouses changes that dynamic. I spent YEARS continuing to meet my husbands needs even though he wasn't meeting mine. This was a mistake. His life was peachy from his standpoint. He got his needs met without having to lift a finger to meet mine. And I grew angrier and more resentful with each passing day.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Tall or Mavash,

Can either of you give some examples of the actions you changed or eliminated to get the attention of your LD partner that helped them to look at the situation?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Aye and if I do withdraw from sex, how do I know when to allow it again without slipping back into the same ol' habits?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Tall or Mavash,
> 
> Can either of you give some examples of the actions you changed or eliminated to get the attention of your LD partner that helped them to look at the situation?


For me, working the MAP as outlined in the Married Man’s Sex Life worked very well. I had stopped looking out for myself and had become too serious. So I got back into some hobbies and working out. I took some time for myself, away from my wife, so that when I was around I could give her my attention. I worked on flirting more through out the day, giving her light touches, laughing a whole lot more, and generally being more like when we were dating. Our sex life improved as she began to trust that I had changed, and as I became more attractive too her.

With all that going on, we hit a patch where she turned me down three straight days, then broke a promise about sex, and then broke a promise about the rain check. Until the last one, I was keeping my demeanor fun and light. When she said no on the rain check, I shrugged my shoulders, told her in an off hand way I was disappointed that she did not follow through, and then rolled over to go to sleep. She tried a couple of excuses, but all I would say is that I understand that she had made her decision. I refused to say that it was alright (the old me probably would have) or that I understood her reasoning (note the difference when compared to what I did say).

I then “turned down the thermometer” if you will. I quit the light touches and the flirting. I spent more time on my hobbies and generally made myself less available. I did not initiate hugs or kisses, and kept them quick when she did. I made sure that I was upbeat myself and with the kids, but I did not direct any of it to her. 

By the third day, she explicit asked if we could get things back to where they were. I agreed I wanted that as well, but said that when she does what she did, I feel that I am not that important. When that occurs, I will naturally start looking out for me. She understood and we got back into a much better place. 

One key thing I will add is that you can’t just do this without thinking it through. More recently, my wife had done something similar, though not as bad, with not wanting sex. But as I thought it through, I realized that I was at fault for most of it. Due to some work stresses, as well as some laziness, I was not doing what I needed to do to meet her needs or get her romanced. So I worked on that, apologized for my slip up and let her apologize (though not really needed) for letting her side slip a bit. I guess my point is that you have to clean up the crap in your own yard before you can complain about the Trans-Am on blocks in your neighbor’s yard.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Tall,
I see where you are coming from now. I have the MMSL book but haven't started to read it yet (this weekend I hope!)

i am kind of doing some of what you've outlined already, especially " I quit the light touches and the flirting". I've done that too with the exception of kissing (lightly) her on the head as I leave for work and when I go to bed at night (I usually turn in a bit earlier than her due to my schedule)

With trout season just around the corner here in the NE, I think I'll get back into that (been a few years)

I have cleaned up a lot of my crap (at least I think so) and will survey the yard too to see what i can do better. Going out with some friends Friday night for dinnes (sans wife) and I have not volunteered any information about who, where and what (nor has she asked as of yet). Maybe spending Friday night by herself will give her some time to think.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Tall,
> I see where you are coming from now. I have the MMSL book but haven't started to read it yet (this weekend I hope!)
> 
> i am kind of doing some of what you've outlined already, especially " I quit the light touches and the flirting". I've done that too with the exception of kissing (lightly) her on the head as I leave for work and when I go to bed at night (I usually turn in a bit earlier than her due to my schedule)
> ...


One thing I forgot to add is that what you withdraw on needs to be one of her love languages. My wife needs those words of affirmation, so when I pulled back on that, it made a difference to her. She could care less about gifts, so had I quit sending her flowers, she would not have felt it nearly as much.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

For me I stopped being AVAILABLE. Took the focus off him and onto me. I lost 25 pounds, started working out, going out with my friends, shopping for new clothes, in short I started looking GOOD. Yes he noticed but I didn't give a flip. I made a point to not be here when he expected me to be. When he was home I was 'busy' with other things. I quit being NEEDY which I see now was pathetic. I was like a damn puppy dog the way I followed him around almost begging for crumbs of his affection.

I made new friends and began to build a life that quite frankly didn't include him. Oh I was nice to him I just turned my thermostat way way down. I showed him full on what he stood to lose.

Then when the situation warranted it I LET HIM HAVE IT. Dude I'm sick of your excuses. It's all B.S. Either you care about us or you don't. There is no middle ground. I'm bringing my A game and I want to know what YOU bring to the table.

He said "I work" like somehow a paycheck is supposed to be enough (I'm a homemaker). I said that's no longer enough for me. I need MORE from you than that. I DESERVE it.

That worked. I've got his full attention now. 

This was a process that took almost a year. Things would get better then he'd backslide and I have to start over, etc. I also had to transform myself FIRST. I had to get my self confidence back as I'd completely lost it.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> One thing I forgot to add is that what you withdraw on needs to be one of her love languages. My wife needs those words of affirmation, so when I pulled back on that, it made a difference to her. She could care less about gifts, so had I quit sending her flowers, she would not have felt it nearly as much.


Love language was tricky in my case. I think my husband is a gift guy and <slaps forehead> I didn't know that when I quit my job to sah. I just quit putting him first and that seemed to work. He took me for granted. No doubt about it.

Oh and I'm a CPA turned homemaker so I have the ability to make as much money as he does. That whole financial support should be enough isn't flying with me anymore.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Like I said earlier, I am starting to work on this already and be less available.

I have withdrawn a lot in the way of touches and compliments but still remain pleasant. I have dinner plans with some friends tonight and then we're headed out for some drinks. I am in no hurry to get home!

Tomorrow I am off to see my son at school and although she may come (son plays a collegiate sport) she might not because it's supposed to rain HEAVY. I go to these events regardless of weather but she may not.

I noticed the other night as I sat on the couch she sat next to me and actuallt reached out to touch me (something I usually do) and I though that was interesting and encouraging.

Planning on spending the weekend doing stuff I want to do and working around the house (if it doesn't rain!)

Wish me luck!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Update!
Got this email this morning from my wife:

Hey Sweetheart,
I have to say I have noticed you have been a little distant and it seems that you are bothered by a lot.
I first noticed it the day we were going to the game in PA. 
Normally I don't say anything and hope all just will work out. Figured I would say something sooner then latter.
So are you dying or did I do something to tick you off.?

So she seems to recognize that she tends to avoid things hoping they'll blow over. I guess she's also noticed that I've pulled back on the love touches and have been going about my business. Don't get me wrong, I'm still very pleasant with her and still doing my share of work in the house including cleaning up after dinner, loading/unloading dishwasher, helping with the shopping (hell, I even washed/waxed/vacuumed her car this weekend because it needed it. I'm a little bit of a car guy and it's a 2011 so I want to keep it looking good)

I intend to reply to her that yes, we have to talk but are going to have to put this off until at least the weekend because we'll need some time to discuss and I don't think we'll have enought time to talk during the evenings with the kids around. I also intend to tell her that it isn't an earth shattering issue so don't worry about it.

I've started to work on my notes for our talk because I want to get this right. Does that seem to weird? I'm just afraid that I could miss something if I don't.

I'm even including questions about how she feels and what she wants in the way of frequency and what puts her in the mood and am I doing/not doing it so she knows this isn't all one sided.

Any thoughts?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tall,
Your execution of this is perfect. Truly - perfect. I have slowly become more and more certain that you are smart, your grasp of behavioral concepts is excellent, mature and you are self aware. You come across as stable and self possessed. The ability to choose not to project anger when you are depriorotized, and instead demonstrate an upbeat demeanor while simultaneously deprioritizing your spouse, is somewhat rare. It is easily describe but takes control, focus and a light touch to pull off. 

I hereby dub you: Tall Role Model as that is what you have become.

As such I hope you continue to post. 

There are way too few role 


UOTE=Tall Average Guy;641701]For me, working the MAP as outlined in the Married Man’s Sex Life worked very well. I had stopped looking out for myself and had become too serious. So I got back into some hobbies and working out. I took some time for myself, away from my wife, so that when I was around I could give her my attention. I worked on flirting more through out the day, giving her light touches, laughing a whole lot more, and generally being more like when we were dating. Our sex life improved as she began to trust that I had changed, and as I became more attractive too her.

With all that going on, we hit a patch where she turned me down three straight days, then broke a promise about sex, and then broke a promise about the rain check. Until the last one, I was keeping my demeanor fun and light. When she said no on the rain check, I shrugged my shoulders, told her in an off hand way I was disappointed that she did not follow through, and then rolled over to go to sleep. She tried a couple of excuses, but all I would say is that I understand that she had made her decision. I refused to say that it was alright (the old me probably would have) or that I understood her reasoning (note the difference when compared to what I did say).

I then “turned down the thermometer” if you will. I quit the light touches and the flirting. I spent more time on my hobbies and generally made myself less available. I did not initiate hugs or kisses, and kept them quick when she did. I made sure that I was upbeat myself and with the kids, but I did not direct any of it to her. 

By the third day, she explicit asked if we could get things back to where they were. I agreed I wanted that as well, but said that when she does what she did, I feel that I am not that important. When that occurs, I will naturally start looking out for me. She understood and we got back into a much better place. 

One key thing I will add is that you can’t just do this without thinking it through. More recently, my wife had done something similar, though not as bad, with not wanting sex. But as I thought it through, I realized that I was at fault for most of it. Due to some work stresses, as well as some laziness, I was not doing what I needed to do to meet her needs or get her romanced. So I worked on that, apologized for my slip up and let her apologize (though not really needed) for letting her side slip a bit. I guess my point is that you have to clean up the crap in your own yard before you can complain about the Trans-Am on blocks in your neighbor’s yard.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> So I made kind of a pact with myself and with him. I AM going to initiate more often. I am NOT going to reject unless I have a valid reason. I AM going to try and have sex at least 3 times per week. I discussed this with my H and he has held me to it.


Angel, how has this worked out for you? has your average gone over 3 times per week? Do you feel any differently about sex, or has your general desire gone up?

I ask this because I've been attempting to do something similar for a month, and I still can't force myself to initiate as much as I'd like to and I turn down my wife's advances with some sort of knee-jerk response that I don't even understand. Since we discussed all of this, it's very frustrating for both of us.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Update!
> Got this email this morning from my wife:
> 
> Hey Sweetheart,
> ...


I think notes to organize your thing make sense. If that is what you need to keep your thoughts organized, then go for it.

While sex is an important part of this, make sure that you address intimacy in general. Being close, cuddling, and touching beyond sex are important as well for both of you. 

Perhaps look into doing a his need her needs questionaire when you discuss this over the weekend. Frankly, she may not be able to articulate what puts her in the mood, so something like that may help get you that information.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks Tall

I know that she and I both know the importance of the general intimacy issues of being close etc. 

Like I've said before though, she sometimes views this as if she does these gestures (touching) that I will automatically assume it will result in sex. While that may have been true 16 or more years ago (when I was much younger) I haven't been like that for years (OK, maybe every now and then but certainly not EVERY time)


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Hi folks. Wasn't sure if this question made more sense in here or sex in marriage but I wanted to get thoughts from men and women.
> 
> Most of the things I read here and in external sources say you should never reject your wife. WTF? So constant rejection of me is OK but not her?
> 
> ...


I have noticed those double standards.

I have heard women act completely flippant towards men experiencing rejection, then turn around and act as if the worst thing in the world, I mean oh my god you just don't understand the worst thing in the world, is for a woman to feel rejected.


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