# Not sure where to go, what to do



## Ekalfwm

As the title says. In a bad place, being cheated on, love her to death, want it to work, but getting hopeless. Don't know if I should give it a chance, or walk.

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## farsidejunky

That is a little vague. Can you give some more information so we can analyze your situation a bit?

How long married? Kids? How long the cheating went on? Is it still going on?

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## Ekalfwm

Been together 20 years, she's 52, I'm 43. Two kids, 20 and 16. Never married.

When we got together she was still living with her ex. I was too young, stupid, inexperienced at the time to see the relationship was only over for her, and not mutually. 

Over the next 20 years, things were rough, but lots of good too. I had serious issues with handling a relationship. I always treated the few I was with before like gold, and got **** on for it. So I wasn't doing it this time. I thought being a good provider and doing my best to support my family was the way to go about it, and not all of the romantic ****. I buried a lot of hurt down and never told her I loved her because I didn't want to admit that I did and risk that hurt all over again. 

6 years ago she had a brief affair, and it all came out of me. Since then, I've done nothing but better myself. Much more caring, communicative, attentive, and controlling of my anger, though I'm much more emotional as I can't find myself being able to bury them anymore. It's been a long road for me, and I don't know that I'll ever see the end in life, because there's always something I can do to be better.

Since then, we've had a lot of family struggles, mostly focused around my youngest and her emotional issues. She's been in therapy, intensive outpatient therapy twice, numerous school issues with grades and bullying, and suicide attempts. Some of it prompted me to also enter an intensive outpatient program at one point, and I've been in and out of therapy the whole time. Some of it personal, some of it family. The whole family was learning a lot (or so i thought) through my youngest on how to properly cope, process, and deal with all things in life.

The last year really started looking up for me emotionally. I was content (not happy) at work for the first time in 25 years. I found a useful and constructive outlet for myself through volunteering, which also helped me socially, and potentially financially down the road. Prior to this, I had a discussion with my "wife" to explain hat there would be a period that my volunteering would require a temporary (6 month) though significant commitment of time, and that if it wasn't acceptable, I wouldn't do it. I was given the green light. 

Through this, I could see she was depressed. Depressed about our youngest. Depressed about finances. Depressed about things being a mess and not getting a lot of help. Depressed about the job she loved going to everyday turning on her the way it had turned on so many others and treating her like ****.

I tried engaging her to do things, both together and by herself. I tried getting her to socialize with some people I'd recently met (neither of us ever really had any friends). We made the mistake of always focusing on the family, but not us, and I was trying to do something about that. I wasn't getting anywhere. 

3 months ago, she ran into an old friend. 3 weeks later, almost simultaneously though separately, both me and our youngest figured out she was seeing him inappropriately. She says she's just not happy, but can't say why or what makes her feel that way, nor what will make her happy. She claimed to want to stick things out (doing her own thing) until our youngest was finished school, and then split.

I doubled down knowing whatever is going on, old friend (who may not be in the picture as of this writing) is a symptom and not the problem. Im working on my stuff, im trying to get her to work on hers, and hopefully we can find some way back to work on ours. I'm a wreck, the kid is a wreck, and the oldest was home from college and probably has a good idea of everything, but is just keeping out of it all.

All of that, and there is so much I didn't even touch on.

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## oldshirt

Ekalfwm said:


> 6 years ago she had a brief affair, and it all came out of me. Since then, I've done nothing but better myself. Much more caring, communicative, attentive, and controlling of my anger, though I'm much more emotional as I can't find myself being able to bury them anymore. It's been a long road for me, and I don't know that I'll ever see the end in life, because there's always something I can do to be better.


I'm not sure you actually bettered yourself vs just working on supplicating her more and becoming more of her beta boy. Instead of actually becoming a stronger and more integrated man, you became a better ***** for her. 

You basically rewarded her for cheating on you and made it that much more easy and logical for her enter into this new affair. She was emboldened to have more affairs because when she gets it on with other men, you give better foot rubs and get the laundry folded better and get the dishes washed and put away faster. It's a double win for her. 

You have become a better servant for her, not necessarily a better man for yourself.


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## Ekalfwm

oldshirt said:


> I'm not sure you actually bettered yourself vs just working on supplicating her more and becoming more of her beta boy. Instead of actually becoming a stronger and more integrated man, you became a better ***** for her.
> 
> 
> 
> You basically rewarded her for cheating on you and made it that much more easy and logical for her enter into this new affair. She was emboldened to have more affairs because when she gets it on with other men, you give better foot rubs and get the laundry folded better and get the dishes washed and put away faster. It's a double win for her.
> 
> 
> 
> You have become a better servant for her, not necessarily a better man for yourself.


I understand how its common to see it that way, but those aren't the things I'm talking about. It's more about myself in how I respond to people and situations interpersonally. How I communicate, what I communicate, that I even communicate.

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## Mr.Married

You mentioned you left a lot out of your story so I can only commit on what is presented.

Woman respect the man that is the leader, provider, supporter. They respect a man that is going somewhere and doing something .... a mover and a shaker.

Sounds like your a guy that needs help, direction, and a job.

Passing off that affair with such casual attitude only lowers her respect for you. She wants you to fight for her.

The crazy kid: I'm in not saying anything to do with that situation is or isn't your fault, but woman don't respect men who can't control their offspring.

Anyways.....you sound really deep in the poop. Your situation has multiple issues on many fronts. 

"When we got together she was still living with her ex. I was too young, stupid, inexperienced at the time to see the relationship was only over for her, and not mutually"

This above quote never really pans out.....It sets the relationship up from the start that your willing to share her with another man... a horrible beta move.

I hope the details you left out contain some sunshine because the forecast says overcast and rainy


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## oldshirt

Ekalfwm said:


> I understand how its common to see it that way, but those aren't the things I'm talking about. It's more about myself in how I respond to people and situations interpersonally. How I communicate, what I communicate, that I even communicate.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


In all that improved communication, did you communicate to her not to screw other men?


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## Andy1001

She cheats and her reward is a better You.
What exactly is her motivation not to screw around?


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## wilson

A complicating factor here is your youngest daughter. You should really think about what is the best thing for her. Is it staying together for a couple more years until she can move out? Or are things so bad at home that it would be better for her if you split? The truth is that things are likely going to be complicated with her for a very long time. It might not matter at all if you divorce now, or it might have a huge effect.

It sounds like everything has been quite complicated for a long time. Your wife is already checked out and she sees the finish line just up ahead. Optimistically we want to think it can work out, but realistically that's not likely. And even if there was a way to make it work out, it would take a lot of committed effort from both you and your wife. You couldn't do all the work and hope to pull her along. Both of you would need to want to do everything to save the marriage. As it is, it looks like it will be a struggle just to get her to decide to work on the marriage in the first place. 

Your situation reminds me of the struggle of trying to get an addict sober. If you've ever dealt with that, the first huge struggle is just trying to get the addict into rehab and make it till the end. But that's just the beginning of the recovery. Then comes the long slog of sobriety which is a ton of hard work that goes on and on. I see your struggle right now with your wife is like trying to convince her to go to treatment. But then after that, there would be all the work to fix the relationship. You have a long history together so it's worth trying, but don't waste year after year optimistically hoping for a miracle.


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## Ekalfwm

Mr.Married said:


> You mentioned you left a lot out of your story so I can only commit on what is presented.
> 
> 
> 
> Woman respect the man that is the leader, provider, supporter. They respect a man that is going somewhere and doing something .... a mover and a shaker.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like your a guy that needs help, direction, and a job.


Have a job, had it since before we got together. I don't love it and most of the time hated it, but it's provided for us. 




> Passing off that affair with such casual attitude only lowers her respect for you. She wants you to fight for her.


No, it was just touched on here casually. I've certainly never been the same, almost all for the good, and she knows it.




> The crazy kid: I'm in not saying anything to do with that situation is or isn't your fault, but woman don't respect men who can't control their offspring.


No one will give a for sure diagnosis because of the age, but it may very well be a case of BPD. Both of us have been doing our best to deal with her and have come a long way. But it's still very taxing on everyone.




> Anyways.....you sound really deep in the poop. Your situation has multiple issues on many fronts.
> 
> 
> 
> "When we got together she was still living with her ex. I was too young, stupid, inexperienced at the time to see the relationship was only over for her, and not mutually"
> 
> 
> 
> This above quote never really pans out.....It sets the relationship up from the start that your willing to share her with another man... a horrible beta move.


If I knew then what I know now....It's not exactly what I was lead to believe it was. They did live in the same house, but in separate rooms. It was over for her, other than being roomates. House was sold within 3 months of us meeting, so it never dawned on me that it might not have been over for him too.




> I hope the details you left out contain some sunshine because the forecast says overcast and rainy


I don't see much sun in the forecast either. I see NOW whatever is happening with her goes deeper than just me, and long before me. Just not sure if the resolution involves me or not.

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## Ekalfwm

Andy1001 said:


> She cheats and her reward is a better You.
> 
> What exactly is her motivation not to screw around?


A real dilemma. 

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## Ekalfwm

wilson said:


> A complicating factor here is your youngest daughter. You should really think about what is the best thing for her. Is it staying together for a couple more years until she can move out? Or are things so bad at home that it would be better for her if you split? The truth is that things are likely going to be complicated with her for a very long time. It might not matter at all if you divorce now, or it might have a huge effect.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like everything has been quite complicated for a long time. Your wife is already checked out and she sees the finish line just up ahead. Optimistically we want to think it can work out, but realistically that's not likely. And even if there was a way to make it work out, it would take a lot of committed effort from both you and your wife. You couldn't do all the work and hope to pull her along. Both of you would need to want to do everything to save the marriage. As it is, it looks like it will be a struggle just to get her to decide to work on the marriage in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Your situation reminds me of the struggle of trying to get an addict sober. If you've ever dealt with that, the first huge struggle is just trying to get the addict into rehab and make it till the end. But that's just the beginning of the recovery. Then comes the long slog of sobriety which is a ton of hard work that goes on and on. I see your struggle right now with your wife is like trying to convince her to go to treatment. But then after that, there would be all the work to fix the relationship. You have a long history together so it's worth trying, but don't waste year after year optimistically hoping for a miracle.


I'm thinking about what's best for both kids as well as wife and myself. And I just don't know what that is. Losing her home would be a major blow for sure. Mom and I get along just fine overall, it just seems that she (wife) thinks she needs to be happy every minute of every day. Its hard to tell a kid not to give up and quit, and then do it yourself. On the flip side, how much do you let yourself be disrespected? It's not easy to say when you are in it.

I get the dealing with an addict. It's a lot of what we've felt in dealing with our daughter. Thank God drugs were never an actual issue. She's come a long way, but it's taken years and tons of treatment to get her to even begin to see that, and she's far from done; may never really be. But she's gotten significantly better. So how can I not consider doing the same for her mother?

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## wilson

Ekalfwm said:


> I get the dealing with an addict. It's a lot of what we've felt in dealing with our daughter. Thank God drugs were never an actual issue. She's come a long way, but it's taken years and tons of treatment to get her to even begin to see that, and she's far from done; may never really be. But she's gotten significantly better. So how can I not consider doing the same for her mother?


The critical difference is that her mom is an adult and should be responsible and mature. We don't expect that from kids, which is why we go way out of our way to help them through their issues. But adults should be mature enough and are able to support themselves in whatever path they choose, so they are expected to take more (all?) of the burden of making that happen. If her mom wants to be happy all the time, she should be the one who works to make that happen. That shouldn't be through affairs, but rather through enhancing your relationship. If she wants more from you, then she should be instigating discussions, planning things, etc. so that she feels more fulfilled and happy.

Because of your daughter, I think you should stick it out until she is out of HS and moves out. Based on what you've described, I think there's a pretty good possibility she could go off the deep end and get involved with drugs, sex, alcohol, etc. as a way of coping. If your home life truly is pretty good, then it's probably most healthy for her if you stay together for a couple more years. Of course, this is contingent on her mom acting more mature during that time. If she's off having affairs, then that is going to be very toxic. Even if you have the best intentions, it will be hard to keep your emotions in check.

What you might propose is something like that. Tell her that you can see there are problems, but for the good of your daughter that you both try to make the best of things for the next couple years. If things still aren't working out, then split up or whatever you decide is best. But at least the impact will be lessened on your daughter and she won't be left with a lot of life-long emotional scars.


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## EleGirl

Ekalfwm said:


> As the title says. In a bad place, being cheated on, love her to death, want it to work, but getting hopeless. Don't know if I should give it a chance, or walk.


Here's a book that will help you through this. The book talks about Plan A and Plan B. You have already been doing Plan A. It's time for Plan B.

*Surviving an Affair* by Willard F. Jr. Harley

There is a link in my signature block below to a site that talks about Plan A and Plan B.

ETA: I see you are using Tapatalk so I don't think you can see my signature block. Here's the link: https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html


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## Laurentium

It sounds like a complicated picture, and different posters here are picking up on different parts of it.



Ekalfwm said:


> Been together 20 years, she's 52, I'm 43.


Unusual age difference. I'm sure there's a story. 



> When we got together she was still living with her ex. I was too young, stupid, inexperienced at the time to see the relationship was only over for her, and not mutually.


Indeed. Past behaviour is often a good predictor of future behaviour. 



> 6 years ago she had a brief affair, and it all came out of me. Since then, I've done nothing but better myself. Much more caring, communicative, attentive, and controlling of my anger, though I'm much more emotional as I can't find myself being able to bury them anymore.


Was that affair ever really dealt with? As in, remorse from her?



> Through this, I could see she was depressed. Depressed about our youngest. Depressed about finances. Depressed about things being a mess and not getting a lot of help. Depressed about the job she loved going to everyday turning on her the way it had turned on so many others and treating her like ****.


It sounds like you grew and she didn't?



> 3 months ago, she ran into an old friend. 3 weeks later, almost simultaneously though separately, both me and our youngest figured out she was seeing him inappropriately. She says she's just not happy, but can't say why or what makes her feel that way, nor what will make her happy. She claimed to want to stick things out (doing her own thing) until our youngest was finished school, and then split.


That all sounds like depression talking. 



> I doubled down knowing whatever is going on, old friend (who may not be in the picture as of this writing) is a symptom and not the problem. Im working on my stuff, im trying to get her to work on hers, and hopefully we can find some way back to work on ours.


Probably not helpful to "try to get her to work on hers". 

For you, "_the stay plan is the same as the go plan_", ie whatever the future holds, working on yourself will be the best plan.


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## StarFires

Mr.Married said:


> The crazy kid: I'm in not saying anything to do with that situation is or isn't your fault, but woman don't respect men who can't control their offspring.


Now, now Ekalfwyn, don't let that kind of statement get to you. Unless you abused your daughter in any way, her mental illness couldn't possibly be your fault. You didn't cause it, can't fix it, and nothing you could do to control it. Some people don't understand that regarding mental illness, so listen to things like that. You didn't describe your daughter as unruly, disrespectful, or a brat in any way. Those things a parent should be able to control in a child, but mental illness has nothing to do with parenting skills or lack thereof.

The bottom line is you met a woman who cheated on her husband with you. Your story is a little bit vague on that part, but that's what I infer from it. There are people like your wife who do as they please without compunction, and then they blame others for their wrongdoing. You see how that goes? She was never a woman to commit to because she's a noncommittal woman with no values, who leaves heartbreak in her wake and doesn't care. You love her but whether or not your marriage survives, you have to accept who she is. No values means she can only think of herself, what she wants, and what she wants to do. A person who has values thinks of others because they value others, and those values are what keep them in line. I'm sure you've heard people from time to time say things like they didn't do such and such because they didn't want to hurt their mother, or they didn't want their family ashamed of them, or things like that. I've seen men here express their reason for never cheating was so their children would always love and respect them. They valued their kids' esteem. When I was in my early 20s, my aunt said something I will never, ever forget. She said "I made sure to never do anything in my life that my sons would have to live down." She divorced her husband back in the 50s, when her two sons were young boys and divorce wasn't so common. She raised them on her own and recruited her mother to go in on buying a house with her so that she could continue working and her mother could help with the boys. But it was hard times, and she could easily have chosen some very different routes. These are people whose family members mean something to them. Nobody means anything to your wife, not even herself.

But this is the crutch of your scenario: You have to value yourself and determine what is tolerable and what is intolerable. Others are telling you that you reward your wife each time she cheats. I don't know if you do or not, so I'm not disagreeing with that. But I am saying that each time she cheats, you do nothing about it. I can understand how you felt the first time, but the second time should not have gone by without you doing something about it. It's the type of situation you wish were very different. You wish it never happened. You wish you weren't hurting so much, and you wish you didn't have to make hard decisions. But it's a time that you do have to take a stand. My mother used to say "You just have to snot through it" meaning you cry and pout and stomp your feet if you must, but you have to do what you have to do. Valuing yourself means you respect yourself to enough not tolerate her doing this to you. Even though it's hard and you really, really don't want to, you have to have enough gumption about yourself to do what is required.

I know you're concerned about your daughter and probably don't want to leave at this sensitive time, but you can't let your daughter's issues control your decisions forever. You can't force her to bear the weight of your unhappiness because she has nothing to do with that, and she has problems of her own, problems that her doctors may be able to stabilize with meds. So, don't make her the scapegoat of your inability to make the hard decisions. You have to get away from this unscrupulous woman for your own sanity. As it is, nothing is ever enough for her, so there is no such thing as you bettering yourself to her satisfactory standard. She will always find a way to tear you down and make you think you cause her unhappiness. So, you will never gain any peace of mind, and you will never actually better yourself until you pry yourself from this self-imposed bondage of her clutches. She doesn't even want the relationship. You're the one clinging to it and convincing yourself that you love her so much that you have no idea who you are, no idea which way to turn, and can't make any sense of our life. You can walk away guilt-free because it's her doing and not yours.


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## aine

E, that is a lot to deal with it, including your daughter, your wife's affair, your own issues, etc. However, you can only take care of your own issues and not your wife's. Your wife chose to cheat, that is not on you. Many of us have lived in crappy marriages but did not go out and cheat.
You are younger than her and would have no problem moving on to something better. One thing not mentioned on the advice is that your wife may be going through menopause, it can have deep impact on some women, their identity, their mortality and due to changing hormones create depression. You should ask her to have that sorted out.
However, the not dealing with the affair has caused a cancer to grow in your relationship, your desperation to keep her at all costs is palpable and therein lies the problem. Your wife does not respect you at all and blames you for her behaviour. I suggest you decide what it is you want, leave her out of it. If you want her in your life then there has to be clear boundaries and clear expectations set out. 
Tell her if she wants to be in your life and still married to you she needs to get hormones tested, she needs to go to counselling because things are going to change in your life and you are not eating her **** sandwiches anymore.
Start doing things for yourself, going to gym, you are doing social work which is great. Show her that you do not need her to live and have a good fulfilling life. Give it a fixed period of time, (say) a year. If things are not changing consider moving on. 
YOur daughter needs you for sure but you cannot drop the ball on the marriage, I think you both did.


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## farsidejunky

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable.

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