# Wife took keys to boat so that I wouldn't use it.



## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

My wife deliberately took the keys to "our" boat so that I wouldn't use it. We have been married for 9 years and have two children. The 1st three years of marriage I supported us. In 04, I sold my business and got involved in her business, which at the time wasn't profitable. In the course of the next five years, we worked together and built the company into a very rewarding enterprise. The company paid for all of our living expenses, vacations, toys and luxuries. After 5 yrs. my wife said she could no longer work with me and I should find a job. My reaction was that I should run the business. I have more experience and better work ethic. She played the "legal" card and said "this is my business and I will continue to run it". I gave in and got a job. Now she makes more money than I do and pays more of our living expenses (i.e boat). The business has suffered since my absence and so we now rely on my income too to cover our overhead. She said that I could not use the boat because "I don't contribute anything towards the boat". I have explained to her that I have a salary and am contributing everything I make towards our household but she still resents me that I do not contribute enough. 

The finances have become a sore subject for her and the incident with the boat is the latest reaction to her resentment.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Boy, is she controlling or what?
She's also extremely ungrateful.
And you are putting up with it.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Yep controlling and you are allowing it to continue essentially saying it's okay to do so.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

i ain;t touching this one...i will get banned.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Friend, you've just been beta-ized. If you are unfamiliar with the term, it means your masculinity has been devalued by your wife. This is either a result of or preparatory to her finding a new man. It is inevitable unless you take your balls back.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

Hello Guys, you haven't told me anything I don't already know. Kicking me while I am already down does not help. I am familiar with the term "beta-ized", I purchased the manual. 

Please provide advice, suggestions, recommendations, direction, etc.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Give her some sex for Godsake. She's so uptight you could put a coal up there & give her a diamond ring for christmas.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Yikes! Taking your boat keys away from you is very controlling. She's treating you like a 16 year old boy grounded from taking the car. I can't imagine life in your house is very peaceful at the moment.

My ex h would take my car keys away from me all the time. One time his anger led to holding me hostage in my own home. I did not stay in that relationship. I packed up my child and left. No one is treating me like a child and telling what to do. I refuse to live that way.

I would have serious issues with this if I were in your shoes. There's a great lack of respect coming from her end. If she didn't want you to go alone, why didn't she just go with you? What was the point of holding you back? You are hard working man who's entitled a break on the weekends.

I do support my husband with everything he does without the family involved. For example he leaves 3 nights a week with his swimming team, the other 4 nights he exercises is biking and running. This also includes hunting/fishing on weekends along with his yearly Alaskan 10 night getaway. He works very hard and I appreciate everything he does for us. He also is currently working 3 jobs to support our family, his choice of course. My husband does the same for me, except I do not travel alone as much as he due to my severe chronic pain. It really makes life more peaceful supporting each other.

I'd probably give an ultimatum in this situation and stick with it.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

basically SImcha, it sounds like maybe you could read into the 180 thing & it might help you.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Also, tell her thats bull**** that you didn't contribute anything to the boat. All the 5 years that you worked with her to get her business into being prosperous.. THAT contributed to you as a couple being able to purchase the boat.

I you (family) are relying on your income to pay the household expenses, and she wants to pull the "legal"cards like that... well, then you could manipulate things around.

Tell her fine. You will no longer rely on your income to support the household expenses. The money she is paying on the boat... shift her $ spent there to the household bills. Then you take over the boat payments. (Keep any reciepts & check stubs, 'cause it sounds like she's the type that you will need to do this.).

Then, when it comes down to it, you can show that you are making the boat payments & see does not have the right to the keys.


At first, with the title alone, I was thinking you were gonna say that she just didn't want you to use it. Ie: you were spending too much time on the lake/river/ fishing with buddies, instead of time spent with family. 

BUt reading the first post, seems more like she has a warped sense of monetary responsibilities within a marriage.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Simcha said:


> Hello Guys, you haven't told me anything I don't already know. Kicking me while I am already down does not help. I am familiar with the term "beta-ized", I purchased the manual.
> 
> Please provide advice, suggestions, recommendations, direction, etc.


Take back your life. Get a better job that pays more. Yes I know that is tough to do. But if you are going to have a boat, they cost money.

Can you afford the boat on your own income while being responsible for half the marital support? If not you may want to sell it until you get a better job. Yes I see it is a joint asset.

If you feel you can afford the boat then go get a locksmith and get another set of keys.

But this is bigger than the boat. There seems more going on here. Essentailly you need to get your own power back. 

I would also examine the marriage itself. I actually get her not wanting you to spend money on the boat if you guys are in financial trouble. BUT her taking the keys is disrespectful. But consider that if she does not want you spending money on this that maybe just maybe you are not respecting her either.
I sense she may want to sell this asset because of the financial situation. Maybe you should. And then work on the marriage itself as you work on yourself.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Who's name is everything in. Everything should be in both of your names. Who's name is on the title to the boat, cars, mortgage on house, bank accounts? You should look around on the men's thread, There are some books there you may benefit from. You need to alpha up and wrestle back some control before she looses all respect for you.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

You probably need to separate your finances before you get in that downward spiral and can't get out of it. Her business skills have the potential for taking you both down.

On another note, I wish I had thought of taking my husband's boat keys and (locked it up tight). I should have been suspicious when it only left the marina once in 4 years.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

827aug- I take it that the boat was a cabin cruiser?


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Simcha - that brings another thought to mind
Do you actually use this boat much? Are you upset because she took the keys just to be controlling? 

Or because you cannot do a relaxing hobby that you enjoy?
Would you have gone out on boat this weekend with friends (ie, already had plans for it) if she hadn't taken the keys?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Take back your life. Get a better job that pays more...But *this is bigger than the boat*. There seems more going on here. Essentailly you need to get your own power back...BUT her taking the keys is disrespectful.


This is excellent advice. OP, you need to make her feel uneasy in her seat of power. Sell the boat and use the money to start your own business ventures once again. Leave her off the paperwork. Meantime, change your hair and clothes to someone a few years younger. Make your body fit the clothes, cut your bodyfat down to 10% and start weight training. Say nothing about these changes and if she asks evade a straight answer. Start delinking and quit discussing the relationship and her unreasonableness. Force her to react to your changes.


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## lifeisnotsogood (Jun 11, 2012)

you're not really providing enough information. What else is going on in your lives. How is the affection, sex, etc. Clearly the respect level isn't there.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Why does this have to be a power struggle--that's her game, right? Don't play it. Sit her down and show her that each of you contributes a certain per cent (based on what per cent each of you earns of the total income) and point out that you are contributing that to EVERYTHING. If she makes $200K and you make $50K (just as an example), you contribute 1/5th to everything--AND you are committing all of your resources to the family (which she is doing too, presumably). 

If you play her game, you stand to lose--as do your kids. Get some counseling and discuss the feelings each of you have toward the family business.

I personally think this is payback for you suggesting you were better than she is (you could run her business better). That was not a very smart thing to do--she started the business and she recognized your ability to make it stronger, but apparently there was something she didn't like about the way you did that, or she would not have had you leave the business. Had she suggested you take over the business, fine; but clearly she has some identity wrapped up in it, and you attacked her when you implied she wasn't as good as you. 

You really need to talk through these issues and try to understand why she wanted you out, and what the business means to her. Some people want to get to the point where they can sell the business for a big profit; others want to maintain it for the long haul. Neither is right, just different. That's why there are still a lot of "mom and pop" operations out there--not b/c people couldn't maximize their profits, but b/c it is part of their vision for themselves and their family. 

I don't know if that is her way of seeing it, or what your way may be. I'm just suggesting that there are different visions.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

I'd be telling her that your money pays the house payment and she can't use it and you take her keys to that. She is being ridiculously controlling and needs a reality check.


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## lifeisnotsogood (Jun 11, 2012)

Tell her the money you make only pays for the boat and nothing else. Then tell her you won't be sleeping in the same bed because you didn't help with the payment.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

I like the idea of taking the house keys.

Does your portion of bills include her car payment or the house payment?? Maybe the groceries? (ie, put a padlock on the fridge)

If you pay the internet bill, then put a padlock on the computer. etc.


just to get the point across.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Boats have very little security on their ignition keys.

I'd have it changed out in 15 minutes and go to the lake.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

Hello everyone and thank you so very much for your input. 

I will address some of your questions and comments to put the situation in perspective. Btw, yesterday she took my company cell phone away. We had an argument and she suspected that I was recording the exchange, asked to see the phone and then refused to return it. I asked her to return it and when she didn't I thought the best thing to do was to ignore it. I didn't want to embolden her by demanding she return the phone or end up in a wrestling match over the phone and then having her call the police. Obviously she is irrational and unstable. Her cousin and uncle own the company that I work for and so she told me to "take it up with" her cousin.

Our marriage is in shambles. We have been having problems for four years. I have gone to therapy and we started going to therapy together and after three sessions she decided she did not want to go anymore. We haven't had sex in over one year. I make regular effort to have sex and she rejects me. She says she doesn't need sex, me or any man. 

I feel that I make an effort regularly to stay married to her, for everyone's sake, but she says, I don't make an effort to work on our marriage. Sometimes her rudeness, nastiness, gets the best of me and so I retaliate and so, in her eyes, it washes away any effort I have made on the marriage and so we are back to square one.

With respect to the boat. 

Before we were married I owned a boat which we both used freely. We began to start having problems with the boat and she wanted a new boat. This decision was made when we were still working together and the business generated money to do it. I did the research, found the boat, negotiated the boat and we both drove 300 miles to purchase it and trailer it back. 

With respect to the business. 

I think that her decision to get me out of the business stemmed from her insecurities. People seemed to give me all the credit for turning the business around and making it successful and she was threatened. I don't have exact numbers because she won't share them with me (surprise), but the last time I saw the numbers, revenues had dropped 40%.

We each pay for our respective cars. I pay for the groceries, nanny ($1,300/mo.), all insurances; car, house, health, utilities; cable, internet, water, electric, gas, etc. Last year I paid 60% of the property taxes. The year before that, I paid for 50% of the property taxes. 

She pays the mortgage, boat, slip, etc. 

I ran the numbers and she pays 60% of the bills, I pay 40% of the bills. Keep in mind that when we worked together the business paid 100% of the bills, now she needs my income to support our living expenses. Also, remember, she took over a business that was producing handsomely.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Wow! What a nasty mean woman! Holding your stuff hostage is wrong and illegal. I would of called the police before it got out of hand.

Your wife is controlling every move. If you don't want to live like this, move ASAP! I'm assuming she is using your age as an excuse to control you. She is treating you like a child. There is absolutely no respect from her. I wonder why she thinks it's okay to treat any human in this nature. She is down right abusive. I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like your wife has a mental disorder like BPD. If untreated, life with them is hell depending on the severity. My ex h has BPD that's untreated.

I bet pulling a 180 on her would help you. Eventually she'll give up once you start ignoring her. Buy yourself a lock box. Keep the key hidden or on your body at all times. I'd even tape the key in a hidden location on your body. Keep everything important to you in this box. We had to do this with my oldest child. She was taking everything of mine and claiming it as her own right down to my expensive makeup. We bought her makeup, just not high quality. I hid my cash along with everything important to me during her early teen years. Eventually she did grow out of her poor behavior, but it took a lot of work.

When I pulled a 180 on my ex, his behavior changed drastically. He tried getting me back even though one of his gf's moved in 3 days after I left. He stalked me for a year as well. But when he talked with me, he was on his best behavior for a few years. He eventually remarried and his nasty behavior came back. He is abusive and unfaithful to his wife pulling the same, if not worse abuse with her. He controls her every move, right down to her computer use.

I really wish you the best of luck. Your better off on your own even if it's a small apartment or living with family/friend. You need to remove yourself from that environment.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

She seems to be cutting you out ... methodically. Like she is preparing for more cuts. Like walk away wife cuts. The family is cutting you out.

Is the boat in anyway tied to the business? Like entertainment expenses against taxes and so on.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

hot wire the boat.

bring it out with a raft tied on back.

sink it.

call her from your cellphone and tell her she needs to work more to get you a new boat.

Dude, you are being way to beta.....

And hope the business fails. Sounds like she needs to come back to earth.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yep hot wire the boat or get a lock smith to make you a new key.

Take over the boat payments, let her pay some of the other bills instead. Or point out to her that if you did not pay 40% of the bills she could not pay the boat.

You need your company cell phone for work. Tell her that if she does not return it NOW you will have to call the police and report that she stole it. You are responsible for it so she cannot take it.

So when are you going to see an attorney?


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Yep hot wire the boat or get a lock smith to make you a new key.
> 
> Take over the boat payments, let her pay some of the other bills instead. Or point out to her that if you did not pay 40% of the bills she could not pay the boat.
> 
> ...


i really think he needs to sink the boat to make sure he gets his point accross.

:lol:

The attorney however may be a unnecessary legal escalation. A sunk boat they can argue over and no harm done its just a boat..


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

As rough as the job market is, never stop looking for another job. You working for her family is another way she can control/manipulate you.
If you get your own job, she loses that power over you.
And in the worst case scenario, if youdivorce you wont be left unemployed


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You say that the business she as is tanking since you left it? Sounds to me like she needs come competition. Since you did so well running the business why not start one up on your own? Give her a run for her money.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bribrius said:


> i really think he needs to sink the boat to make sure he gets his point accross.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> The attorney however may be a unnecessary legal escalation. A sunk boat they can argue over and no harm done its just a boat..


Yea, sinking the boat would have some dramatic appeal. She could also sue him for the monetary value of her half of the destroyed property.

Sometimes filing for divorce is a very good tool. It shows the other spouse that you are serious about not taking their nonsense. Remember that a divorce can be stopped at any time before the judge signs the final decree. And even after that they can still get re-married.

I have a sister whose husband pulled this sort of nonsense with her. She had run two successful businesses and built houses with him that they sold for very good profits. But at that time she was in college working on a degree in mechanical engineering. He was always putting her down for not contributing financially. So she had enough of it and divorced him.

After the divorce was done he refused to move out. But she was now worth as much as he... she got 50% of their joint assets... assets which she had contributed to as much as he had. His respect for her went way up.

Four years later he was still living in the house which was hers now. She was making the same salary as he made. She had the same assets he had. They remarried. It worked out great. He just needed to get his head screwed back on straight.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Simcha -
Honestly, I feel for ya. Looks like your marriage is eventually heading for divorce. Or full legal separation with divorce 2 years down the road. 

Any hopes to salvage a marriage needs to have both members committed to working on it. She seems to only be working on bringing you down. 

Some of the vindictiveness of her actions seems to be what I would see from a cheated-on woman. Not saying you did, but somehow in her mind, she is justifying why she is trying to take away any joy you had in things once shared, or is trying to sabotage you being able to support yourself when she kicks you out.

Is there any underlying reason why she would hate you so much? Is there something you said or did that she just cannot get over/forgive?

Sometimes it may be something you said in passing, that you didn't realize had effected her that badly. (Maybe you made comments in a fight that her business was failing without you? ) Would that be a major contention of hatered for her?

Whatever way or whatever reason, I can't see it as "she is just a pure bit*h". She would have displayed ***** habits early on in the marriage & you'd have known before getting the second boat not to do it.

Just start preparing yourself to get a lawyer... counseling, whatever you will need to deal with life, when she is out of the picture completely.

One thing, just quit the fighting. Don't respond to any digging comments she makes. Any vindictive moves/actions (ie, the cell phone). Just get up & walk out of the conversation if it starts to be a fight.


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## 23YearWife (Sep 3, 2010)

It's not about the boat. Or the money. Here's my unvarnished opinion. It sounds like your interaction when you were working together made her feel marginalized or unworthy. That's why she asked you to leave her business and now she's returning the favor. You guys need to get back in touch with why you got married in the first place. Try this. Drop all defenses. Focus on her. Tell her you get the message things have gone off track and you want to reconnect with her. You want to know what she's thinking, how she feels. Then when she talks, zip those lips no matter what she says and just listen. You might learn someting. Whether you agree with her or not, empathize if she feels unhappy. You can always honestly say, "I'm sorry you feel bad," without agreeing with her. Day in and day out, ask yourself what you'd be doing this moment if she was a perfect wife. Do it. Buying flowers? Leaving love notes? Taking her out for romantic meals? Helping around the house? Do it even if she's difficult. Don't react to the bad, only the good. Find out what she wants and give it to her. Be the perfect husband for 3 months. Chances are, you'll end up with a perfect wife. 

When normal people are loved unconditionally, they love in return. Never fails. It's more addictive than cocaine.

Hmmm.

Off to follow my own advice.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

Hello 23YearWife,

I think you provide good advice and I have been trying hard but there comes a time when she is so nasty and rude that I cannot condone it and I retaliate.

"Then when she talks, zip those lips no matter what she says and just listen."

Are you suggesting that regardless of whether its factual, true or not, I should "just listen"? She creates her own false reality and then uses it as if its factual.

I am torn between following your advice or following the advice provided by Michael Cross in "Your Marriage Savior". 

I have not been unfaithful to her although I must admit that after one year without sex and zero sign in the horizon I am tempted.

I am sure that I have said many things, although factual, that she has found hurtful. I cannot take them back and she is harboring deep resentment for them. 

When she first asked me to leave the company and find a job, it did cross my mind to open a similar company and the mere thought of it offended her. She thought I was crazy for even thinking of it. "Do you plan to compete with me, are you out of your mind"?

Are there specifics to the "180", please elaborate?

Again, the forum's advice and ear is greatly appreciated.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

*"Then when she talks, zip those lips no matter what she says and just listen."*


she actually says this to you and you let her??????????


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Is there any possibility that she is cheating - she is either a major control freak or she is slowly building up the kind of resentment that a woman in another relationship has for her husband when she is angry at him for her cheating.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Is there any possibility that she is cheating - she is either a major control freak or she is slowly building up the kind of resentment that a woman in another relationship has for her husband when she is angry at him for her cheating.


Unless she's unbelievably repulsive, had her ovaries removed, or she's over 55, I'd be willing to bet that she does not share in the no-sex-for-over-a-year experience.

This ties in with cutting the ground out from under OP at every turn. 

Time to up your sex rank, Simcha. Singleness is on the horizon. Does adultery count for anything in your state's family court?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bribrius said:


> *"Then when she talks, zip those lips no matter what she says and just listen."*
> 
> 
> she actually says this to you and you let her??????????


No another poster suggested to him that he zip his lips and listen to his wife talk about what is bothering her.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

I'd move out. You have no business letting your children see her treating you like a stray dog.
Grow some if you can't find the ones that provided the children.


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## 23YearWife (Sep 3, 2010)

"Are you suggesting that regardless of whether its factual, true or not, I should "just listen"? She creates her own false reality and then uses it as if its factual."

Yes, give it a try. What do you have to lose? Words are just words. Why not let her get things off her chest? It may act like a steam valve and allow her to talk more reasonably later if you stop fighting her view of reality and hear her out.

"I am sure that I have said many things, although factual, that she has found hurtful. I cannot take them back and she is harboring deep resentment for them."

Most marriages have his and her facts. I kind of suspected you might have said hurtful things to her regarding how much better you handled the business. You've probably heard of the X and Y theory of management. In the X style when the goal is achieved everyone's happy, fulfilled and eager to work together on the next task. In the Y style when the goal is achieved, nobody ever wants to speak to the boss again, much less work for him. Mixing business and marriage can cause trouble because they have different methodologies and different goals. Obviously, a business's goal is rational and objective. Charts and the bottom line reveal success or failure. Marriage isn't logical or objective. It's goal can't be quantified. In fact, it's entirely subjective: happiness. If the wife is happy, if the husband is happy, the marriage succeeds -- independently of whether the business did. If your words made your wife feel valueless, feel wrong, feel criticized and unloved then I do think you should take responsibility for the hurt you've caused her. Maybe she's not as good at some tasks as you are. That doesn't mean she's worthless or you wouldn't have married her. If you admit that you made her feel worthless, if you apologize, that allows her to forgive you. Ignoring her feelings, her resentment, won't work. It's like hitting somebody and then demanding they not howl in pain.

"When she first asked me to leave the company and find a job, it did cross my mind to open a similar company and the mere thought of it offended her. She thought I was crazy for even thinking of it. "Do you plan to compete with me, are you out of your mind"?"

Since you're married and share a household and its expenses, that does sound a little odd, if it would be direct competition.

"Are there specifics to the "180", please elaborate?"

No specifics. Just follow your heart. If you can resolve to end the combat and if you still love her, pretend she's perfect and treat her like you did when you first met. It sounds like you might lose her otherwise. If you don't want that, try unconditional love. I'd bet money that after a while you'll get love back.

I speak from experience a little bit in this. Many many years ago, my stepfather and I didn't get along and I felt certain I was right about the subject on which we disagreed (and I still do). I stood up for my point of view and the result was that we fought whenever we were around each other. It caused a good deal of misery to us both and to my mother. Then one day I heard advice similar to what I'm giving you. I decided to try it. I started treating him like he was a perfect father, doing what a daughter should, sending him cards on Fathers Day, inviting him to things I hadn't, being respectful. It took some time, but our relationship transformed completely. I was at his bedside when he died and his loss devastated me. I'm so glad I saw the light while there was still time.


Again, the forum's advice and ear is greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Hope we're helping.


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## 23YearWife (Sep 3, 2010)

Oops, got the X and Y reversed. The X style is the critical, untrusting boss and the Y still is the motivating, inspiring one.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

No sex for year. Either she has so much resentment built up over the years or there is a 3rd party in the situation. Have you eliminated an affair?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

23YearWife said:


> "Are you suggesting that regardless of whether its factual, true or not, I should "just listen"? She creates her own false reality and then uses it as if its factual."
> 
> Yes, give it a try. What do you have to lose? Words are just words. Why not let her get things off her chest? It may act like a steam valve and allow her to talk more reasonably later if you stop fighting her view of reality and hear her out.
> 
> ...


Hope we're helping.[/QUOTE]


Specific parts of this advice are very bad and naive. Why does the burden of the relationship has to be on this guy only ? It takes 2 to make a relationship. If he is unconditionally loving her back, why would she want to change her behavior? Your logic applies to normal people in normal circumstances. At what point does he stop this ? Until his self esteem is the gutter ? 

The plan you refer is often called Plan A. The plan is to be so nice so that your spouse falls back in love with you. 

And 180 isn't following your heart. It is specific set of guidelines designed to put you in a better state of mind whether the marriage survives or not.. Let me find the link to that.


http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1339174629/The+180


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

Thank you again to everyone that has been reading and following along, I sincerely value your input and your interest in trying to find peace in my matrimony.

"No sex for year. Either she has so much resentment built up over the years or there is a 3rd party in the situation. Have you eliminated an affair?"

It has crossed my mind and I believe that sometimes my subconscious wishes there were a "3rd party", just to end this situation. However, I have not found a smoking gun. I must admit too that I am technologically inclined so my research has been thorough.

I think there is a very fine line between "loving unconditionally" and being that person's doormat. I have struggled to walk that line.

Another thing to consider is that she may be suffering from a medical/mental condition. That throws yet another challenge into the equation.

I am not sure if couples therapy works, I have read mixed reviews about it. We did start seeing a therapist and after three sessions she did not want to return. Should I suggest therapy again? How?


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I bet pulling a 180 on her would help you. Eventually she'll give up once you start ignoring her.
> 
> I read up on the principles of the 180. Please explain to me if I should or shouldn't be doing the following:
> 
> ...


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## 23YearWife (Sep 3, 2010)

Warlock07, I've noticed it doesn't matter who makes the change if it's sincere. Genuine love is the most powerful force on earth and it transforms not only the lover, but the loved. It's the opposite of being a doormat because it takes wisdom, personal strength and self-control to accomplish this. Most of all, it takes first acknowledging your own contribution to whatever the problems are and admitting them, realizing you and your partner made the mess together. Then you can forgive yourself, forgive her, and fearlessly CHOOSE to love. This choice isn't available if the goal remains to be "right," or get revenge, or hold grudges.


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## 23YearWife (Sep 3, 2010)

Simcha, it sounds like you both need psychological breathing space to get perspective. Is there any way to ratchet down the combat for a day, a weekend? Actually, I've never heard of "the 180" as a principle, so I can't comment. I've done it successfully and seen it done is all. You have to want to do it for it to succeed. It's not a tactic, but a genuine change of heart that comes from seeing her and the situation differently. You have to see her as something other than your enemy, examine and understand how things got to be the way they are. Most of all, you have to want to be happy more than you want to be "right." Nobody but scientists can "prove" that they're right, anyway, especially to an unopen listener, and even scientists have to call most of it theory rather than law. It sounds like your only other options are continued marital combat or divorce. This looks like the "better or worse" test of love. Why not try it? To get out of the combat zone, try spending a day listing and remembering what you like about her. In your mind, try being the guy standing at the altar again. What would you do if your beautiful bride felt hurt, upset or angry in her wedding gown? Why not try doing that now? Give yourself some space to get over the anger and fear. I promise you, it's not about the money or the boat. She's hurt.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

23YearWife said:


> You have to want to do it for it to succeed. It's not a tactic, but a genuine change of heart that comes from seeing her and the situation differently. You have to see her as something other than your enemy, examine and understand how things got to be the way they are. Most of all, you have to want to be happy more than you want to be "right."
> 
> This looks like the "better or worse" test of love. Why not try it? To get out of the combat zone, try spending a day listing and remembering what you like about her. In your mind, try being the guy standing at the altar again. What would you do if your beautiful bride felt hurt, upset or angry in her wedding gown? Why not try doing that now? Give yourself some space to get over the anger and fear. I promise you, it's not about the money or the boat. She's hurt.



Wow! That's some powerful stuff right there. The "your beautiful bride felt hurt, upset or angry in her wedding gown?", that really hit home. That's like a jeteye mind trick.

Ok, I will do it. Wish me luck and please stick around you are very inspiring.


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## 23YearWife (Sep 3, 2010)

I wish you all the luck in the world!


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

You need to keep a realistic view of your marriage. While loving your spouse is always a good idea there is no such thing as unconditional love in a marriage. Both sides have needs. You portray your wife as abusive and she shows a total lack of respect for you as a man. She's definately not scared of you so I'm thinking your not physically abusive. However, I'm not sure about emotionally abusive. Have you been emotionally abusive?


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> You portray your wife as abusive and she shows a total lack of respect for you as a man. She's definately not scared of you so I'm thinking your not physically abusive. However, I'm not sure about emotionally abusive. Have you been emotionally abusive?


I don't believe I am or have been emotionally abusive to her but perhaps I have been. 

She has never accused me of being "emotionally abusive". When she asked me to find a job and leave her company, she accused me of not giving her enough credit for the things she did and she accused me of making her feel insignificant.

I never intended to make her feel anything remotely like that. I think she felt insecure because I was running the business. I was negotiating with vendors, implementing new revenue streams, had turned a non profitable business into a very rewarding business. I didn't do it deliberately, we had our second child in the midst of when I was doing all of this and so it was natural that I do it in her absence.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Simcha said:


> I don't believe I am or have been emotionally abusive to her but perhaps I have been.
> 
> She has never accused me of being "emotionally abusive". When she asked me to find a job and leave her company, she accused me of not giving her enough credit for the things she did and she accused me of making her feel insignificant.
> 
> I never intended to make her feel anything remotely like that. I think she felt insecure because I was running the business. I was negotiating with vendors, implementing new revenue streams, had turned a non profitable business into a very rewarding business. I didn't do it deliberately, we had our second child in the midst of when I was doing all of this and so it was natural that I do it in her absence.



Could it be that you rubbed it into her face a bit too much? Is she struggling with being a mother and a business owner? An internal conflict of sorts? Showering her with love is not going to resolve this conflict since she has so much pride. By the way, I would reclaim the boat immediately and absolutely refuse to put up with her giving you permission to do this or that in your home. Either find the keys or just overide the ignition on the boat. What's she going to say or do? My husband stole our boat? Start asserting yourself in a positive way and don't respond to any abuse. Just do it nicely.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Emotional abuse could be just ignoring her emotional needs. Both partners have emotional needs and when they get ignored for a long period of time resentment sets in and gets worse as time goes by. Couples therapy is a great idea providing you find a pro marriage counselor. Some marriage counselors are neutral as to whether you should separate or stay married. Look up pro marriage counseling in your area. In the mean time both of you should read His Needs, Her Needs. Try to get her to read it with you. Enginerd has given very good advise on how to handle her control issues. You do have to start reasserting yourself.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

23YearWife said:


> Warlock07, I've noticed it doesn't matter who makes the change if it's sincere. Genuine love is the most powerful force on earth and it transforms not only the lover, but the loved. It's the opposite of being a doormat because it takes wisdom, personal strength and self-control to accomplish this. Most of all, it takes first acknowledging your own contribution to whatever the problems are and admitting them, realizing you and your partner made the mess together. Then you can forgive yourself, forgive her, and fearlessly CHOOSE to love. This choice isn't available if the goal remains to be "right," or get revenge, or hold grudges.


We have a few guys/women like that in the divorce section of this forum. They were repeatedly abused, trampled, stomped over and kicked repeatedly through out their relationship. Look at their threads. (Coguy, synthetic, traggy, Conrad(?), jpr and a few more I don't remember). They were the typical doormat nice guys who were terribly taken advantage of. Again I understand your perspective but it is terribly naive and is not applicable in all the situations.

A relationship in which only one partner is giving everything won't work.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

23YearWife said:


> I wish you all the luck in the world!


What is your position on the boat? We know its not simply about the boat. She is placing blame on me because we had to pay for the slip and she assumed that by giving me the bill, it would mysteriously get paid. I told her clearly that I did not have the extra $1,800 to pay it and we both knew we were running the risk of losing our slip if we didn't pay it by a certain date. In fact there was talk about selling the boat because it's costing us between payments, marina, winterizing, summerizing, gas, $8,000/yr.

The bill was never paid and we lost the slip. We now have a different slip that is not as convenient.

Also, she is upset because the bank requested that we register the boat and she had to pay $2,300 to register it. We purchased the boat out of state and in two years we didn't register it. She claims that she wasn't aware that we had to register the boat and she was upset that I knew all along and didn't address it. 

It is very common for her to plead ignorance when it suits her. I have since gotten copies of the keys to the boat, unbeknown to her. I haven't had an opportunity to use it because I work M - F. 

I have started to assert myself and I sense she responds well to it. Last night I told her I wasn't going to sleep in the guest room anymore and got in bed and went to sleep. Out of spite, she would raise the volume on the TV to its highest level to get a rise out of me. I ignored it. Eventually, she got tired of the volume herself and left the room, leaving the TV on and the volume screaming high. 

I turned off the TV and went to sleep. Around midnight she crawled into bed.

This morning I rose at 5:30 a.m. and went for a run. I called her to let her know the sitter would be home by 10:00 a.m., asked her how her morning was going and we had a few seconds of civility.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

23YearWife said:


> Simcha, it sounds like you both need psychological breathing space to get perspective. Is there any way to ratchet down the combat for a day, a weekend? Actually, I've never heard of "the 180" as a principle, so I can't comment. I've done it successfully and seen it done is all. You have to want to do it for it to succeed. It's not a tactic, but a genuine change of heart that comes from seeing her and the situation differently. You have to see her as something other than your enemy, examine and understand how things got to be the way they are. Most of all, you have to want to be happy more than you want to be "right." Nobody but scientists can "prove" that they're right, anyway, especially to an unopen listener, and even scientists have to call most of it theory rather than law. It sounds like your only other options are continued marital combat or divorce. This looks like the "better or worse" test of love. Why not try it? To get out of the combat zone, try spending a day listing and remembering what you like about her. In your mind, try being the guy standing at the altar again. What would you do if your beautiful bride felt hurt, upset or angry in her wedding gown? Why not try doing that now? Give yourself some space to get over the anger and fear. I promise you, it's not about the money or the boat. She's hurt.


I am sorry to say that I couldn't go even one day without making matters worse for me and my marriage.

I got home with our boys after their soccer game. My wife was already upset with me because "I didn't tell her" our son had a game. She has the same schedule I do, but she relies on me to keep her informed of the activities that I am aware of, yet it is not reciprocated. I often don't find out about our son's activities until they've passed or the same day.

I got through her anger about the game relatively unscathed. We got home and although she got home before us, I prepared dinner and set the table.

All along while I am doing this, she is having a cellular conversation and she is making it very obvious she wants her privacy. Deliberately, making sure that I can't listen. It is obvious the conversation is social not business.

After dinner, she retreats to the basement to and turns on the television. 

I put the boys to bed and retreat to our room. At 3:00 a.m., I wake up and she is not in bed. I assume she is either sleeping in the guest room or with one of the boys.

Earlier that evening before retreating to sleep, I was navigating the web and came across, the "Top 10 Signs of Infidelity by Anne Bercht". The article makes the following disclaimer:

"Noticing any one or all of the above signs of infidelity does not guarantee that your spouse is cheating. They are simply the common signs reported by those who have been cheated on. Other factors in life could cause a person to act in any of the ways above. If your spouse exhibits none of the signs above, that does not guarantee that they aren’t cheating. Ultimately you will need to discover for yourself the truth in your own unique situation."

My wife is exhibiting is exhibiting 6 out of the 10 signs.

And so at 3:00 a.m., when I wake up, I see that my wife's purse is sitting on the lounge chaise. The curiosity consumed me and I started looking through her purse and my wife walked in and caught me.

She said, "what are you doing", I literally, had my "hand in the cookie jar". I said, "I am going through your stuff". She said, "why, what do you expect to find, the smoking gun". 

I said, "I am trying to understand why we can't get along. Why you are having these secret conversations, why you don't sleep in our bed".

She replied, "you are not going to find anything, perhaps a Wendy's coupon or a Starbucks coupon, that's it".

I was actually surprised that she wasn't as upset I thought and expected her to be.

She took her purse and walked out of the room.

I tried falling back asleep, but here I am, sharing my life with all of you.

Now what?


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Simcha-

I have yet to see if someone gave you the basics of the 180. 
There are threads in here dedicated to it.

(Forgive me folks if i get this wrong). Basically, from what I understand, you do a full turn around (180 degrees) and do the opposite of your normal actions/ reactions.

If you usually stay & fight -turn it around- Don't. Walk away from the fight.

If you blindly pick up her messes for her & always wash the dishes.. etc.. Dont. Leave her messes for her to pick up. Wash the dishes 1/2 the time. When they pile up, say- "It's your turn hun".

If she goes out & you stay at home & brood- Don't. Go out yourself with some buddies. Go play darts, something.

If you let her make all the plans - don't. Make a plan (family day at zoo... fishing, etc) for xx day for the family. Tell her the plan & stick to it.

Get a haircut, just for yourself. Some spiffy clothes, just for yourself.

I think the point is for her to notice the changes without you saying anything. If she questions if you are cheating, don't lie. Say you are doing something for yourself for once. & it's gonna stay that way.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Simcha said:


> Hello Guys, you haven't told me anything I don't already know. Kicking me while I am already down does not help. I am familiar with the term "beta-ized", I purchased the manual.
> 
> Please provide advice, suggestions, recommendations, direction, etc.


Divorce.

who the h*ll would want to be with such a person!!!!!!!!!


yuck and double yuck.


when you get sick and tired of her shet then you will do something.


she makes more with her business .....I"ll bet since you left its going down hill and thats why shes all jacked up .


and if she dose make more divorce won't be bad financially for you. 


I say Run Run run. she sounds nasty.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So you know you've been "beta-ized", and you have the books. Besides moving back into your bed (which was a good start), what are you doing about it? You've taught her over the years what she can get away with and how to treat you; now you need to reverse that. And it's likely going to be a painful process for both of you. She will likely fight to keep control.

As far as the 180 goes... Keep in mind the purpose of the 180 is to get you to a place where you can move on, if that's what's best for you. It SOMETIMES has the benefit of showing your spouse that you have other options, which can cause them to rethink their treatment of you. But that's a side effect, not the reason for doing it.

C


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## 23YearWife (Sep 3, 2010)

warlock07 said:


> We have a few guys/women like that in the divorce section of this forum. They were repeatedly abused, trampled, stomped over and kicked repeatedly through out their relationship. Look at their threads. (Coguy, synthetic, traggy, Conrad(?), jpr and a few more I don't remember). They were the typical doormat nice guys who were terribly taken advantage of. Again I understand your perspective but it is terribly naive and is not applicable in all the situations.
> 
> A relationship in which only one partner is giving everything won't work.


It has worked beautifully for me and I've seen it work for others. Being a doormat has nothing to do with genuine love because you first have to love yourself before you can love someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 23YearWife (Sep 3, 2010)

Simcha said:


> What is your position on the boat? .


I'm probably not the best person to ask. My ex-hubby and I give each other everything. Even divorced, we still have each others' power of attorney. We're the couple in that story about the husband selling his watch to buy combs for his wife's hair and the wife selling her hair to buy a gold chain for the husband's watch. Each of us is generous and the other responds in kind.



Simcha said:


> I have started to assert myself and I sense she responds well to it. Last night I told her I wasn't going to sleep in the guest room anymore and got in bed and went to sleep. Out of spite, she would raise the volume on the TV to its highest level to get a rise out of me. I ignored it. Eventually, she got tired of the volume herself and left the room, leaving the TV on and the volume screaming high.
> 
> I turned off the TV and went to sleep. Around midnight she crawled into bed..


That sounds awfully stressful to me.



Simcha said:


> This morning I rose at 5:30 a.m. and went for a run. I called her to let her know the sitter would be home by 10:00 a.m., asked her how her morning was going and we had a few seconds of civility.


Well, I'm crossing my fingers for you. I still think you're focusing on symptoms rather than causes. Have you ever asked yourself "why" your wife asked you to leave her business? To me, that's the crucial question. Unless she's mentally ill (and only you would know that), what wife is going to ask a husband to stop doing something that is so financially successful? Reading between the lines, it seemed to me that you were behaving in a way that upset her and later you confirmed she has deep resentments from that time, but you dismiss them. From what you've said, those resentments are almost certainly the cause of your current problems. She felt put down and controlled and now she's doing the same to you.

Unless you address the underlying cause of this conflict and take some responsibility for it, you might get the boat back, but next time it will be a car or the house or the children. That's why I say it's not about the boat. It's about whatever caused her to take the keys.

I'm not suggesting you beat yourself up or accept terrible treatment, but it sounds like you dished out some bad treatment to her and you haven't owned up to it in an adult way. If you don't care that you hurt your wife then worrying about a boat isn't going to solve any problems. Sex probably won't happen, either. What is that saying? Happy wife, happy life? Same goes for a happy husband, of course. 

Your wife sounds likes she's furious with you. Unless they're certifiable, women don't get that angry for no reason.


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## lovestoomuch (Oct 11, 2011)

yes, sounds like much deeper issues going on.


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## lifeisnotsogood (Jun 11, 2012)

Simcha said:


> Hello everyone and thank you so very much for your input.
> 
> I will address some of your questions and comments to put the situation in perspective. Btw, yesterday she took my company cell phone away. We had an argument and she suspected that I was recording the exchange, asked to see the phone and then refused to return it. I asked her to return it and when she didn't I thought the best thing to do was to ignore it. I didn't want to embolden her by demanding she return the phone or end up in a wrestling match over the phone and then having her call the police. Obviously she is irrational and unstable. Her cousin and uncle own the company that I work for and so she told me to "take it up with" her cousin.
> 
> ...


Just because she says she doesn't need sex from you or any other man does not mean she is not getting it from somewhere else. The fact that she took your phone, makes me wonder if she was going through it to see if you were doing anything wrong. I hate to say this, but I think your wife is still having sex...just not with you. How about you? Are you innocent in all of this, or do you have your own past or present demons?


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

lifeisnotsogood said:


> Just because she says she doesn't need sex from you or any other man does not mean she is not getting it from somewhere else. The fact that she took your phone, makes me wonder if she was going through it to see if you were doing anything wrong. I hate to say this, but I think your wife is still having sex...just not with you. How about you? Are you innocent in all of this, or do you have your own past or present demons?


If she is having sex she is extremely discrete about it. I don't mean to be naive but while cleaning out the basement I found correspondence relative to her previous relationship where sex was also a problem. Her past boyfriend expresses being frustrated that despite providing everything for her and taking her on trips all over the world, he doesn't understand why she won't have sex.

I am innocent. I have not been unfaithful. My only "demons" are financially related which she has contributed to and now she washes her hands clean of it and blames me.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

23YearWife said:


> I'm probably not the best person to ask. My ex-hubby and I give each other everything. Even divorced, we still have each others' power of attorney. We're the couple in that story about the husband selling his watch to buy combs for his wife's hair and the wife selling her hair to buy a gold chain for the husband's watch. Each of us is generous and the other responds in kind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What ever way I treated her I did not intend harm, it was not my intention to belittle her or make her feel bad. I have apologized to her and have let her know that if I made her feel bad, I was sorry.

I think it is all water under the bridge now. Last Sat. night, she became physical to the point that she struck me with her cell phone and cut my eye open. She called 911, claiming that I had assaulted her but the Sheriff did not find any sign of assault on her, she was intoxicated and I had my eye cut open and dripping blood. I was taken to the ER and she was arrested. Consequently, her family fired me and I was served divorce papers.

Needless to say, its been a rough week. I think its for the best. She needs help. It wasn't the first time she's become physical, its just the first time she has drawn blood and called 911. I think she was planning to have me arrested, making it easier to move forward with divorce and children, but her plan was thwarted and that night justice prevailed.


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## still.trying (Jul 27, 2012)

I think it's weird that she feels like she has the right to do that. She sounds very selfish. Why does she think she has the right to punish you? And what is she punishing you for?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Simcha said:


> What ever way I treated her I did not intend harm, it was not my intention to belittle her or make her feel bad. I have apologized to her and have let her know that if I made her feel bad, I was sorry.
> 
> I think it is all water under the bridge now. Last Sat. night, she became physical to the point that she struck me with her cell phone and cut my eye open. She called 911, claiming that I had assaulted her but the Sheriff did not find any sign of assault on her, she was intoxicated and I had my eye cut open and dripping blood. I was taken to the ER and she was arrested. Consequently, her family fired me and I was served divorce papers.
> 
> Needless to say, its been a rough week. I think its for the best. She needs help. It wasn't the first time she's become physical, its just the first time she has drawn blood and called 911. I think she was planning to have me arrested, making it easier to move forward with divorce and children, but her plan was thwarted and that night justice prevailed.


Sue the company for unlawful termination if you have to!! She hit you, she got arrested, they fired you and you got divorce papers. What was your role in this? Do they think you instigated her? How did things get so bad on Sat night?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Since she has assulted you and been arrested talk to an attorney about having an RO put on her, and having her moved out of the family home.

Serving you D papers that quickly makes me wonder if she wasn't already making plans with an attorney to file and the fake 911 call was her clumsy attempt at forcing an RO on you and kicking you out.

You need to be carrying a VAR on yourself at all times right now.

There still could be another man she is planning on moving in, in your place.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Simcha, Im sorry for you to getting hit, being fired and getting served with D papers. 

Try to find a decent lawyer right away. If you can't afford it start selling things around the house or ask for a loan from your family/friends.

Since she was arrested make sure they put a restraining order on her. In the mean time if there are any valuable items around the house, make sure to secure them off-site or pawn them right away(again it'll fund your legal fee's to come).

Also look into your state's laws regarding job termination's, what is valid and what is not. If your lawyer can find a mistake on their end make sure to go for full compensation. They showed their true intention's and don't back down from it, don't settle for anything less then what you deserve.

Edit: It does sound like she tried to get RO on you with the divorce papers, to possible move in someone else.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

You made a huge mistake of making yourself economically dependent on your wife. But she doesn't love you or respect you. Is there something that keeps you in this abusive relationship? 

And please don't say the kids. What kind of male role model are you setting for them if you allow your woman to walk all over you?



> I think it is all water under the bridge now. Last Sat. night, she became physical to the point that she struck me with her cell phone and cut my eye open. She called 911, claiming that I had assaulted her but the Sheriff did not find any sign of assault on her, she was intoxicated and I had my eye cut open and dripping blood. I was taken to the ER and she was arrested. Consequently, her family fired me and I was served divorce papers.


This may even be good in the long run...


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Since she has assulted you and been arrested talk to an attorney about having an RO put on her, and having her moved out of the family home.
> 
> Serving you D papers that quickly makes me wonder if she wasn't already making plans with an attorney to file and the fake 911 call was her clumsy attempt at forcing an RO on you and kicking you out.
> 
> ...


I believe that she intended to have me arrested to make the divorce and custody easier for her. Pardon my naivety what is a "VAR"?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Voice Activated Recorder.

Some examples, 

Sony ICDBX112 Digital Voice Recorder, 2GB Digital Voice Recorder, Flash Voice Recorder, Sony Digital Voice Recorder

Olympus 2GB Voice Recorder, VN-7200 - Walmart.com


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Sue the company for unlawful termination if you have to!! She hit you, she got arrested, they fired you and you got divorce papers. What was your role in this? Do they think you instigated her? How did things get so bad on Sat night?


I live in NY, "at will" state, but I will look exhaust all possibilities. 

She had behaved incredibly disrespectful earlier that evening. I told her not to speak to me that way. I showered, shaved, got dressed and went out. I got back around midnight, said good night, went into the bedroom, undressed and got into bed. She got into bed and said, "you're not sleeping here". She started kicking me and then she started taking swings at me. I was careful not to retaliate in any way that could land me in jail.

I think she intended to have me retaliate to the point that I would get arrested but her plan backfired and landed her in jail and me in the ER.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

keko said:


> Voice Activated Recorder.
> 
> Some examples,
> 
> ...


Please advice how and when to use the VAR. I have recorded my wife's tirades in the past. If fact the night she struck me, she got upset because I said, I was going to record her so that she would hear how she behaves when she is intoxicated and irrational. She became upset and started taking swings at me.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

costa200 said:


> You made a huge mistake of making yourself economically dependent on your wife. But she doesn't love you or respect you. Is there something that keeps you in this abusive relationship?
> 
> And please don't say the kids. What kind of male role model are you setting for them if you allow your woman to walk all over you?
> 
> ...


I didn't make myself "economically dependent on my wife", but I make the mistake of capitulating to her last year when she asked me to leave the business. 

I will land back on my feet and be better off without her, guaranteed.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Simcha said:


> Please advice how and when to use the VAR. I have recorded my wife's tirades in the past. If fact the night she struck me, she got upset because I said, I was going to record her so that she would hear how she behaves when she is intoxicated and irrational. She became upset and started taking swings at me.


Keep it on yourself whenever she's around. So the next time she attacks you or claims you attacked her, the recordings will prove your innocence.

Is she still in jail? Were you able to put a RO on her?


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

keko said:


> Keep it on yourself whenever she's around. So the next time she attacks you or claims you attacked her, the recordings will prove your innocence.
> 
> Is she still in jail? Were you able to put a RO on her?


She was only in jail a few hours and was arraigned the same day. An order of protection was requested on my behalf but it wasn't granted. The DA said that I need to go to Family Court to request a "refrain from" order of protection.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Just to be on the safe side, change the locks on the house right away or have a few relatives stay with you. 

Will you go to the family court to get it or no? Until you can get a protection order she'll just do it again and again.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

keko said:


> Just to be on the safe side, change the locks on the house right away or have a few relatives stay with you.
> 
> Will you go to the family court to get it or no? Until you can get a protection order she'll just do it again and again.


She has been having her relatives stay with her. I don't have any relatives nearby. I am meeting with my attorney on Monday, I will see what he suggests.

I don't want to make more enemies for myself.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Wait, she's still at the house?


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

keko said:


> Wait, she's still at the house?


Yes, they allowed her to return to the house the very same day. Her father and his wife have been staying at our house the last six nights.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Sigh. See how biased the legal system is? Can you imagine a man doing the same thing and getting released the same day?

You my friend need a lawyer ASAP and pursue legal channels right away.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

keko said:


> Sigh. See how biased the legal system is? Can you imagine a man doing the same thing and getting released the same day?
> 
> You my friend need a lawyer ASAP and pursue legal channels right away.


I am meeting with my attorney on Monday.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Until then make sure to keep a voice recorder on yourself. Avoid her at all costs.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

keko said:


> Until then make sure to keep a voice recorder on yourself. Avoid her at all costs.


It's been good that her family has been staying at our home. I am not quite sure if they are protecting her from me or the other way around. After all, she is the one with the assault charges against her.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

You know they WILL lie to the cops if there is another incident. Avoid them as well.

Have a look at your state laws regarding protection orders. What needs to happen, what can be done, how long it'll last, what are the limitations, etc.. 

Make sure to choose a lawyer that has experience in this area. Do your best in achieving the RO/PO. Just as you said she tried to make the divorce/child custody easy on her but now you have the upper hand. So follow through with everything you got.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

keko said:


> You know they WILL lie to the cops if there is another incident. Avoid them as well.
> 
> Have a look at your state laws regarding protection orders. What needs to happen, what can be done, how long it'll last, what are the limitations, etc..
> 
> Make sure to choose a lawyer that has experience in this area. Do your best in achieving the RO/PO. Just as you said she tried to make the divorce/child custody easy on her but now you have the upper hand. So follow through with everything you got.


I will do that, thanks.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

You do know you could have her relatives ejected from the home. You can not be evicted without due course.

But this is very strange indeed. There is for sure something you don'y know here. Why would you sleeping in your own bed get this reaction? Weird. The only thing I can think of is that there is someone else. Someone the parents want for her. Just very odd indeed.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> You do know you could have her relatives ejected from the home. You can not be evicted without due course.
> 
> But this is very strange indeed. There is for sure something you don'y know here. Why would you sleeping in your own bed get this reaction? Weird. The only thing I can think of is that there is someone else. Someone the parents want for her. Just very odd indeed.


The problem is that alcohol run rampart in the family. The family members that drink encourage each other to continue drinking and nobody puts a stop to it. The few in the family that don't drink, have no say in the matter and zero influence.

I don't think there is someone else. Up until the assault incident I got along with her family just fine. They also think that I pressed charges.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Is she to acquire inheritance or are there plenty of assets between both of you? That could be another explanation.

Can you go through her phone bill and emails/facebook to rule out a 3rd person?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Talk to your lawyer, explain you believe you were being set up the other night and that she will try again. Emphasize you feel unsafe and in danger. Then ask the a RO be requested based on the attack you sustained earlier. Pay up big time your restraint, her moving family into the house as a threatening move, her going to jail and you to the. ER. Play it for all you can,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

keko said:


> Is she to acquire inheritance or are there plenty of assets between both of you? That could be another explanation.
> 
> Can you go through her phone bill and emails/facebook to rule out a 3rd person?


There is no inheritance and in terms of the "assets" it is quite the contrary. When we were doing well financially, it seemed to keep the relationship grounded, however, our finances have started to slip and the decision to get me out of the business did not help, it compounded the issue.

I don't have access to any of her "personal" information. We had some problems a couple of years ago when I became suspicious and did some in depth research. I never found definitive signs of infidelity, although I did find signs of developed friendships that I did not condone. As a result, she since locked down all of her information.

I don't believe there is a 3rd person. I think she is suffering from depression, mid life crisis (43) and alcoholism.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Talk to your lawyer, explain you believe you were being set up the other night and that she will try again. Emphasize you feel unsafe and in danger. Then ask the a RO be requested based on the attack you sustained earlier. Pay up big time your restraint, her moving family into the house as a threatening move, her going to jail and you to the. ER. Play it for all you can,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have been reluctant to add fuel to the fire. I am new to the state. I am all alone, no family, no friends, nobody I can truly trust. I have plenty of support through my family and friends, but they are all very far. She and her family have lived here their entire lives.

Her brother is also very temperamental and a closet alcoholic. They are very irrational, temperamental people and I fear for my safety.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Simcha said:


> There is no inheritance and in terms of the "assets" it is quite the contrary. When we were doing well financially, it seemed to keep the relationship grounded, however, our finances have started to slip and the decision to get me out of the business did not help, it compounded the issue.
> 
> I don't have access to any of her "personal" information. We had some problems a couple of years ago when I became suspicious and did some in depth research. I never found definitive signs of infidelity, although I did find signs of developed friendships that I did not condone. As a result, she since locked down all of her information.
> 
> I don't believe there is a 3rd person. I think she is suffering from depression, mid life crisis (43) and alcoholism.



More often than not, there is one. Your wife might be an exception but I wouldn't bet on it. Be prepared for the possibility


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Simcha said:


> I didn't make myself "economically dependent on my wife", but I make the mistake of capitulating to her last year when she asked me to leave the business.
> 
> I will land back on my feet and be better off without her, guaranteed.


Ah, some fight in you... You'll do fine.


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## Simcha (Jul 14, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> More often than not, there is one. Your wife might be an exception but I wouldn't bet on it. Be prepared for the possibility


I think if I found out there is a third person, it would upset me briefly, but I wouldn't be crushed over it, things between us are too far gone. What benefits or advantages legally or otherwise would there be if I did find out there is a third person involved?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Simcha said:


> I think if I found out there is a third person, it would upset me briefly, but I wouldn't be crushed over it, things between us are too far gone. What benefits or advantages legally or otherwise would there be if I did find out there is a third person involved?


If your done with her, none.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Wow. That pretty much sums up everything. 

Is she possibly pre-menopausal? I'm also sure the drinking and possibly MLC aren't helping, because - she seriously sounds like she's becoming mentally unhinged. She's becoming paranoid and dangerous. 

As for finding out if there's OM, the only thing that might really help is for a custody hearing, as proving she's a cheater might do some damage to her credibility. 

Good luck with your attorney.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> More often than not, there is one. Your wife might be an exception but I wouldn't bet on it. Be prepared for the possibility


There is always the "exception that proves the rule," but this ain't it. She's found somebody new to eventually torment and she's been working hard at leveraging out the OP to make room for the new victim for quite a while.


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## zsu234 (Oct 25, 2010)

Machiavelli is usually right listen to him.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Simcha said:


> I think if I found out there is a third person, it would upset me briefly, but I wouldn't be crushed over it, things between us are too far gone. What benefits or advantages legally or otherwise would there be if I did find out there is a third person involved?


Well for one it might help you focus on getting the D done and being proactive in protecting yourself instead of reactive. 

Also depending on if the OM is married or has a gf, you can expose it to his SO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Wow. Sounds greedy to me. It's just money. She needs to lighten up.


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