# What to do?



## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

Hi everyone

Very (very) long story,and,after reading the forums a bit,it seems a pretty common one.Sorry about not using the common abbreviations that are used on this site,I'm not sure what they all mean so am writing this the way I speak it.Hope you can understand the rambling and offer some advice.

My wife and I have been together for 13 yrs,married 7 years.I am 39 she is is 38.We have a 5 year old Daughter (who we both love beyond words).I work 3-4 days a week 10-11 hrs per shift,2 of which are nights shifts,she is currently working 1-2 days per week,usually totalling 4-12hrs per week.I am a very introverted person and she is the complete opposite, other than some of her family members she is one of the most extroverted people I've ever met. In general we get on great,we agree 99% of stuff and never fight.I love her with all my heart and she is one of my best friends
When we first met at work I had been single for about 18 months,she pursued me BIG time (she tells everyone she "stalked " me), which I found a bit intimidating.At the time she had a boyfriend so I told her I definitely was not interested in a relationship of any kind.She later broke up with her boyfriend,and we started dating several weeks after.She later told me that she had cheated on all of her boyfriends in the past,usually with the same guy,who I'll call Mr X. She had also had a few same sex relationships

For the first few years our sexual relationship was (to me) very good,I've never really been someone who wanted sex more than 3-4 days/week,which she thought was quite strange as all of her ex's had wanted sex 6-7 days/week. She initiated at least half the time,maybe more,and she was literally ALWAYS complimenting me (in private and to others),to the point where I would become emabarassed about it. At this point in our relationship she was extremely jealous,all the time,about anything and everyone (especially my ex).To the point where I couldn't pick up a DVD at Blockbusters if there was a good looking girl on the cover,and I felt uncomfortable talking to female friends as this usually led to arguments.This behavior caused more than a few fights.The jealousy passed and she told me that ours was the first really healthy relationship she'd been in

The intimacy between us gradually started to decrease after 3-4 years,sex was now twice a month or so.And though I frequently suggested that I would prefer we had it more often,nothing changed,the fact that we didn't even have sex on our honeymoon should have let me know the direction this was heading

This is where things went down hill 

We had sex in April 2008 and concieved our beautiful daughter,unfortunately we then did not have sex again until late December 2010,which she initiated with a "better get one in before the end of the year" remark,which of course made me feel like some horrible chore that needed to get done. During the previous 2.5 years , when ever I tried to initiate any sexual contact between us (beyond a morning hug/goodnight peck on the cheek) or tried to discuss the lack of sex, she had started saying "Better get *insert one of her friends names here* over to service you". This long running "joke" was a weekly occurance and she would even say it to the person if they where at our house or talking to them on the phone "When you coming around to service my husband". We were also trapped in a cycle of me trying to initiate sex,getting shot down badly and then me withdrawing from her,sometimes for weeks on end.There was never any fighting or raised voices at all, ever

Then nothing again till late December 2011....again with the "better get one in before the end of the year" comment ugh

Nothing again for 2012,I was starting to dread the end of December, waiting for her to say it again,which of course she did. I finally blew up and let out 4.5 years of frustration and hurt. I told her how bad saying that made me feel and how the constant "jokes" about getting her friends to service me made feel like a bag of ****,and that she was destroying my self esteem. She looked quite shocked and immediately apologised,saying she only ever ment it as a joke and she promised to change,stating she still loved me more than ever and would start making an effort.

At this point I took a long hard look at myself aswell,and how I could improve myself.Mainly getting over my anxiety over going to large social gatherings (particularly her family as they are very "in your face") I made a New Years resolution to be the best husband I could be,to try and spend more quality time as a family (and as a couple) and to not let my feelings get hurt if my sexual advances were rejected .We committed to making every Wednesday our date day (while our daughter was in pre-school) usually we'd go out for lunch or cake and coffee,to the beach etc.

At this point we were having sex once or twice a month,still much less than I'd like, but a huge improvement on where we'd been,2013 was at least starting to look better.


About mid 2013 one of her friends had broken up with her husband and needed to stay at our house for a day or 2,till she could get into a rental. At night she was constantly pressuring us to have a threesome with her,which we repeatedly declined.The next day my wife took our Daughter to school and then went to work,I was left with her "friend" to help move her belongings into her new house.As soon as my wife left for work,her friend started trying very hard to have sex with me (called me into the bathroom when she was in the shower with the door open; walked around our house with NO clothes on looking for a towel; came over (wearing just a towel) and put her face in my lap while I was on the computer) By this point I was feeling extremely uncomfortable and on the verge of an anxiety attack,I managed to get her out of the house and into her place....bang... she strips off again,now just wearing a see through singlet and undies and asking me to lay on the floor with her for a cuddle.My wife finished work and came over to help move her friends stuff in about this time and asked me "why is she nearly naked?" I told her what happened and that I wanted to get out of there and that I'd prefer to never be left alone with this "friend" again.I told her I didn't think this person was a positive person to have in our lives at such a vulnerable time in our marriage
Now if this was one of my friends doing this to my wife, I'd have had a serious word to my so called "friend" and never spoken to them again......but my wife blew it off as nothing and is still good friends with her today and even went away to the coast for a night with her..WTF? This showed me how little she values my feelings

This is where things got really bad

In Sept 2013 I was at home getting ready for work (night shift) and my wife was at the shops, when I heard a msg notification sound come from my daughters iPad,my wife had logged into her facebook account on there and didn't sign out when she left.When I checked the msg it was a reply from MrX (her old f##k-buddy) The exchange read:
Her:Hey
MrX: Hey you
Her:Are you busy today?

Then ,in front of my eyes,the posts were deleted 

I called her and asked her to come home immediately,I confronted her about the messages,she was very shocked to say the least.She vehemently denied doing anything wrong and claims she only deleted the messages so not to worry me if I ever saw that she was chattting to him.She said she'd never contact him again.She also claims she didn't think I would mind her chatting with him because I've never been jealous before in our relationship.

We entered Marriage Counselling in October and go about every 2-4 weeks
In these sessions she has been honest and takes pretty much full responsibilty for the poor shape our marriage is in,admitting that most days she is just plain lazy ,but that she is completely committed to changing.She also claims she still loves me,is still extremely attracted to me and that the sex,when it happens,is great.She also told the counsellor that I'm an extremely giving and attentive partner,and she knows I would do anything for her at the drop of a hat
The cousellor assigned her the homework of initiating sex at least one day per week,no matter what,but so far it's been once a month or worse.She is still not taking it seriously
I'm pretty much at the point of moving out now,but the thought of her moving on and getting another guy in here (she could never be alone) and someone else tucking my daughter in at night,picking her up from school etc just breaks my heart.I think I'd rather be dead than not see my little girl every day

I don't know what to do from here

Thanks for reading

Beatings


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Wow, that all sounds very hurtful. 

She does not respect you. She does not take you seriously. It sounds like she's of the opinion that she can do whatever she wants with no consequences. 

Why did she need to know if Mr X was busy that day? 

It seems that once divorce becomes a real option people get (rightly) concerned about their odds in the dating world as well as the future of their children. These are valid concerns. 

Your story is full of emotional abuse - her to you. Full of it. She is really, really using you and taking advantage of your kind nature. She was not able to maintain a healthy relationship with you. She has likely sabotaged it to make it unhealthy as that is what she is accustomed to. Her future relationships are also going to be unhealthy.

Honestly that is why you will have a lawyer during divorce proceedings - if you get there. Part of your custody agreement can say nobody over there tucking your child into bed. She can date on the weekends you have your daughter. If she is in violation of that she can lose custody. 

This woman seems assured you will never step up and play hardball with her and she's running right over you in every way possible.

At least that is the impression I get from your story. Sorry you find yourself in this situation.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I think that she is lying to the counselor and has some real problems. 

What did the counselor say about the reasons for her behavior?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

It is not normal or healthy even to joke about "having my friend service you". An occasional or once a year comment might not raise the eyebrow, but all the time? Not normal, not healthy. Somethin's up. Healthy marriage has some jealousy. And the bit about not being alarmed with her naked friend. Beyond odd!!!!
You know this, and I understand about not leaving your daughter.
leaves you in a very tough spot.

BTW, about this MrK; was this $#@Kbuddy before your marriage/relationship I hope? Might be time to start monitoring snooping what she's really up to.

I defer to others now and wish you the best.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

makes me think she doesn't really care what you do, because she's intent on or doing now whatever she wants to do.

Gotta figure out some way to keep your daughter in your life, but leave this neurotic, bizzare situation that's been going weird for quite a while.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Do the 180
Detach yourself from her, see what happens.

Edit: the advances by her girlfriend seem very suspicious, especially the way she reacted to them.
Could they have been setting you up to cheat so she could justify a romp with her Ex?


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Must be torture for an introvert to not get the intimacy he needs. I am also an introvert and sex is so much more than just some caveman physical act that a lot of women think men chase for.

Sorry for your pain brother.

She has her issues, but so do you. There is no way an ongoing joke and rejection should have gone on that long. At some point you have to be assertive and a man, and let her know what you need. It's not an issue of, "whenever I would bring it up....." No, you bring it up and deal with it. Sounds like a beta/niceguy thing going on. This never turns out good. I feel bad for you, but you really did make yourself a doormat. If she is a great mother, friend, and you guys never argue, she can still be all that without being your wive. Intimacy and sex is part of a marriage, and if that is turned off, then you are just friends. You can be friends and be apart. She needs to know this.

Good luck.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Do the 180
> Detach yourself from her, see what happens.
> 
> Edit: the advances by her girlfriend seem very suspicious, especially the way she reacted to them.
> Could they have been setting you up to cheat so she could justify a romp with her Ex?


Or setting him up to cheat so she could divorce him and not look like the bad guy.


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## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

I think a VAR in her car, and possibly at home is the route I would go.

Having sex once a year is a big flag to me.

Having her "joke" about a friend servicing you sounds like a "guilty admission/justification" to me about her having the OM servicing her.

The nude friend being over trying to seduce you, while your wife doesn't take it serious -- seems like they tried to set you up, make you the bad guy, and leave you for the OM / get a hand up in the divorce/custody.

Her text is a monster flag due to her initiating it, and it 'ending' with 'are you busy?'. I can't imagine very many innocent conclusions to that conversation. At all.

If she's not taking MC seriously, then must be a reason, and I'd want to find out what that reason is.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

She told you she cheated in everyone of her relationships with the same guy (Mr. X). Do you really think she has put an end to that behaviour. Do you really think you accidently stumbled on to their very first contact with each other. You caught her erasing it to cover her tracks, how thoughtful of her to spare you the worry.

You should have made it clear from day one, that in light of the cheating information, contacting Mr X was a deal breaker. There is something about him she can not let go of. She likely has been banging him for years. Her attitude regarding the comments about having friends take care of you shows that she does not value you. She was hoping you would take the bait she hung infront of you to make things equal.

Do not accuse her any further and start digging for proof of her affair with Mr. X. Start reading in the Coping with Infidelity forum to learn how cheaters behave they all seem to have common traits. Look there for information on how to collect proof. Look for posts from a guy called Weightlifter on how to gather evidence.

I hope I am wrong but she looks like a serial cheater.

Good Luck and I wish you the best!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So, she's taken her affair underground?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

now you know why she isn't having sex with you....she was worn out from Mr.X.


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies!







MissScarlett said:


> Wow, that all sounds very hurtful.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did she need to know if Mr X was busy that day?




She said he's very busy and was just checking to see if he had time for a chat


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

usmarriedguy said:


> I think that she is lying to the counselor and has some real problems.
> 
> What did the counselor say about the reasons for her behavior?


She feels that my wife has a very low SD

Unbelievably the FaceBook incident (which is what brought us there in the first place) has only really been brushed on and discussion on this subject keeps getting pushed to "another session". I think it's because my wife cries when the subject of me not trusting her anymore is discussed, so the counsellor changes direction.

The counsellor agreed that chatting to an old f##k buddy was not a smart idea.
I have no problem her being friends with her ex-boyfriends, she is FB friends with at least 2,I have met one of them and he's a really nice guy.It's more that the relationship between her and MrX was purely sexual, and usually when she was dating someone else


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> And the bit about not being alarmed with her naked friend. Beyond odd!!!!
> 
> 
> BTW, about this MrX; was this $#@Kbuddy before your marriage/relationship I hope? Might be time to start monitoring snooping what she's really up to.
> ...


She wrote off her friends behaviour as nothing because her friend has some really serious mental issues (depression,BPD etc) I have known this person for a long time, and she can be a really nice person (when on her meds) but too unstable to be around us at the moment

MrX was way before us, even before the boyfriend before me (that I know of)
I suffer from anxiety and the feeling of snooping through her personal stuff makes me feel sick to my stomach,so I avoid it

Thanks for the reply


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

tacoma said:


> Do the 180
> Detach yourself from her, see what happens.
> 
> Edit: the advances by her girlfriend seem very suspicious, especially the way she reacted to them.
> Could they have been setting you up to cheat so she could justify a romp with her Ex?


I'll have a look at the 180 !!!

I honestly don't think that was the case,her "friend" was seriously messed up,depressed,just checked out of a mental hospital, kicked out of the family home, no cash, hardly any possessions, feeling alone and discarded
She has an extremely high sex drive (7/week/multiple times a day) 
And it's just how she makes herself feel good/wanted.
She is a VERY good looking woman and has no dramas picking up,I doubt she has been lusting after me or anything either, I was just the closest guy at the time and I was being nice to her


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Has anyone ever told you that you are incredibly naive?


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Has anyone ever told you that you are incredibly naive?


Yes, a good friend said it to me the other day,and I am starting to feel that way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Since she's not listening to the advice the MC gave her and the sex is now far and few again, then some night, when you in bed you should say, "Hey. Remember when you said it was time for you to call a friend to take care of my needs? Make the call and the one I want is the girl who was prancing around naked in front of me." Then hand her the phone and get a big smile on your face.

If she says that she was only kidding, tell her your not. Then let her know that since she doesn't want to have sex with you and since she doesn't care about your feelings then maybe she should call Mister X and move in with him because you not putting up with her crap any longer and let her know that your as serious as a heart attack and a call to a lawyer is only a phone call away.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I do think the 180 is a good idea in this case, to see how it affects her, if at all. 

I don't know how you can tell a marriage counselor that you agree to initiate sex once per week and then not do it at all. I don't understand where she is coming from on all this. 

Unfortunately, just from the info you've given us, I would really look into this x. She had a pattern in the past of using him for supplemental sex in relationships and the fact that she was deleting chats shows there was something she didn't want you to see. 

So your daughter goes to pre-school and your wife works very part time. What does she do with her day? Is she productive around the house, does she have things she does? (What I am getting at - is she perhaps depressed all the way around the block or is it just the sex that is wrong and everything else seems to be going fine with her being happy about it.)


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

I honestly don't want to portray myself as perfect and her as a "bad" person, which when rereading this,it looks like I am. She truly is a good person, when I have broken down and cried about how unhappy I am or my anxiety is at critical point (no sleep) I can see it kills her inside and she can be very nurturing. I believe (hope!) that she just doesn't link sex/physical intimacy with happiness anymore. And still doesn't understand how vital this part of the relationship is to me


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Beatings said:


> I honestly don't want to portray myself as perfect and her as a "bad" person, which when rereading this,it looks like I am. She truly is a good person, when I have broken down and cried about how unhappy I am or my anxiety is at critical point (no sleep) I can see it kills her inside and she can be very nurturing. *I believe (hope!) that she just doesn't link sex/physical intimacy with happiness anymore*. And still doesn't understand how vital this part of the relationship is to me


She may very well, just not w/ you. Sorry if that's tough to read. She's absolutely cheating on you.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Of course we all share in our marriages. Most problems are two people problems. If not the things we do then the ways we react.

Is it possible that she feels very nurturing and motherly towards you and cares for you deeply - but no longer feels sexual towards you?


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

MissScarlett said:


> I do think the 180 is a good idea in this case, to see how it affects her, if at all.
> 
> I don't know how you can tell a marriage counselor that you agree to initiate sex once per week and then not do it at all. I don't understand where she is coming from on all this.
> 
> ...


Well it wasn't exactly she had to initiate, she was to pick one day/week (we chose Thursday as neither of us work Thursdays) and commit to having sex on that day,no matter how busy we are. Sickness or an emergency would obviously override this. As she is the one with the LD,her "homework" is to make it happen and not make excuses.I'm always up for it,but no longer bring it up because there has been quite a few times where we talked it up during the day and nothing happens at night,which is even worse.

I started to withdraw from her a few days ago, this morning after dropping our daughter at school ,she asked if I wanted to go out for a coffee at a café and I declined (I would normally always go). So she noticed something was up, 10 minutes later she suggested that we to go and have sex, at 10am this is something she would ordinarily NEVER do. We've had sex during the day perhaps 2 times in the last 7 years or so. I declined as I had a Dr's appointment. He gave me a script for anti-depressants, Valium and I had some blood-work done.

Our Daughter is in big-girl school now  
I wouldn't say my wife is particularly productive around the house,but that has never bothered me. I make my own meals (I track my diet fairly carefully) and we share most of the household duties,I wash dishes,she does laundry, I mow the lawn, she cleans the bathroom, she is good with our daughter at meal times, I'm better at getting her to sleep etc. We compliment each other perfectly in this regard,and we both step up if the other needs help.
She may have some depression issues, perhaps body image related, she didn't lose all her baby weight. Personally ,I think she still looks hot,but maybe don't tell her that enough


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> She may very well, just not w/ you. Sorry if that's tough to read. She's absolutely cheating on you.


I truly hope not, but I understand that it's very probable


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

MissScarlett said:


> Is it possible that she feels very nurturing and motherly towards you and cares for you deeply - but no longer feels sexual towards you?


This is how it feels to me,but she assures me this is not the case

I have told her repeatedly that if she had cheated I would never use it against her with our daughter, I just want to know so I can move on


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## RCB1 (Feb 8, 2013)

Beatings said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Very (very) long story,and,after reading the forums a bit,it seems a pretty common one.Sorry about not using the common abbreviations that are used on this site,I'm not sure what they all mean so am writing this the way I speak it.Hope you can understand the rambling and offer some advice.
> 
> ...


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## RCB1 (Feb 8, 2013)

Well it sure is obvious that you are "between a rock 'n a hard place!" From what i hear in ur story, deep in your heart u know that u have reached the end of the straight road & now u have to choose your path ( your destiny ) - what u are now seeking is affirmation on which path to take, but u know in your heart that there is no joy or happiness in your present time... You are lonely, you haved reached a state of recentfulness & bitterness, & after continuosly persuading yourself that perhaps she will "see" the light & if u threaten her to leave, she will make an effort to change, as u well know now that this will never happen, because she will continue to sneak her "old" ways in, testing her ground, being passive aggresive towards u, making u feel quilty & full of doubt, that perhaps it's your fault your marraige is in the state it is in..... Need i say more, u know that i have hit the nail on the head! The only way u & ur daughter have is OUT!!! Stop thinking about what will happen to her, she couldn't care less, about u, which surely u must be realizing, as i sense this from the despair u feel, because the only reason why u put such a detailed post together was to literally analyse the conclusion of the decision u know can be the only one, now stand up dust yourself off, and claim your life back, your self esteem back, others have gone before you, and most seperated or divorced ppl, thrive in their new lives are happier and prospur because they stood up and faced the uncertaintanties that where ahead and to discover that life is for the living, God above wants joy and happiness for us, he wants us to decide though, if we want happiness and joy or if we are too afraid to reach out and be the change we want to see, too much time has already been spent on pondering and procrastinating about u know in your soul needs to be done, let go of that ball that chain that has been holding you hostage and choose life, love and happiness, u will see how many nice ppl are waiting to meet you and welcome you into your new chosen life, i hope that this is the kind of response u were hoping for and i pray that u will be strong and courageous and change the destiny of not only you, but your very impressionable daughter, that loves you because u r u! Keep me posted.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP:

have you ever met Mr. X? what is he like?


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

RCB1 said:


> Well it sure is obvious that you are "between a rock 'n a hard place!" From what i hear in ur story, deep in your heart u know that u have reached the end of the straight road & now u have to choose your path ( your destiny ) - what u are now seeking is affirmation on which path to take, but u know in your heart that there is no joy or happiness in your present time... You are lonely, you haved reached a state of recentfulness & bitterness, & after continuosly persuading yourself that perhaps she will "see" the light & if u threaten her to leave, she will make an effort to change, as u well know now that this will never happen, because she will continue to sneak her "old" ways in, testing her ground, being passive aggresive towards u, making u feel quilty & full of doubt, that perhaps it's your fault your marraige is in the state it is in..... Need i say more, u know that i have hit the nail on the head! The only way u & ur daughter have is OUT!!! Stop thinking about what will happen to her, she couldn't care less, about u, which surely u must be realizing, as i sense this from the despair u feel, because the only reason why u put such a detailed post together was to literally analyse the conclusion of the decision u know can be the only one, now stand up dust yourself off, and claim your life back, your self esteem back, others have gone before you, and most seperated or divorced ppl, thrive in their new lives are happier and prospur because they stood up and faced the uncertaintanties that where ahead and to discover that life is for the living, God above wants joy and happiness for us, he wants us to decide though, if we want happiness and joy or if we are too afraid to reach out and be the change we want to see, too much time has already been spent on pondering and procrastinating about u know in your soul needs to be done, let go of that ball that chain that has been holding you hostage and choose life, love and happiness, u will see how many nice ppl are waiting to meet you and welcome you into your new chosen life, i hope that this is the kind of response u were hoping for and i pray that u will be strong and courageous and change the destiny of not only you, but your very impressionable daughter, that loves you because u r u! Keep me posted.


Thankyou for that heartfelt reply 

We had a LONG talk yesterday/last night where I laid it all out for her,and told her I would no longer live in a marriage without intimacy.When I said I was at the point of leaving her,she became very upset and finally realised how serious the situation was and how truly unhappy I've been the last 5 years, and has committed to change. I do have to take some responsibility for this as, after reading NMMNG, I've come to realise how often I act happy around her, when in fact I'm angry.

I desperately want to give it another go, us breaking up, no matter how amicable we try to make it, would forever change our daughters life, we were very happy once and hopefully could be again


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> OP:
> 
> have you ever met Mr. X? what is he like?


No I haven't.
By all accounts he's a good guy and a great dad to his kids


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Beatings said:


> and has committed to change.


If that's true and she committed to change, that means you had sex last night. Or is she a liar? It's one or the other.


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> If that's true and she committed to change, that means you had sex last night. Or is she a liar? It's one or the other.


We did....the best in a very long time
She initiated, nonverbally (which I much prefer)


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Good!! Now, don't let up. One time does not mean it's fixed.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Beatings said:


> No I haven't.
> By all accounts he's a good guy and a great dad to his kids


ughhhh....I just lost a long post back to you, beatings, due to a brief TAM website glitch (Mods...what's up with that??)


anyway dont want to reporoduce all of it but:

am not convinced she is cheating on you, or has, but her recent texts to Mr. X do not make it sound like her cahtting him up is a new thing. has she ever seen him in person since you've been married? how far away does Mr. X live from you?

I think you realy need to pin her down on how long she's been talking to him. Tell her you want to see the deleted texts to him (if that is feasible technically.....how long ago did she delete them?). her response to why she asked him if he was busy....that was lame. i think you should set a boundary with her to end her contact with old boyfriends, period.


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> ughhhh....I just lost a long post back to you, beatings, due to a brief TAM website glitch (Mods...what's up with that??)
> 
> 
> anyway dont want to reporoduce all of it but:
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to reply!


She told me she has only communicated with him (through Facebook) three times and hasn't seen him in person in around 14 years. Almost all her oldest friends (school mates) are friends with him on Facebook, as they all used to hang out together,so his comments occasionally pop up on their pages, though I don't think he's very active on FB. He lives a couple of suburbs away from us from memory. She has obviously promised to never contact him again

I'm pretty sure you can't get back deleted Facebook pm's, but it's not something I've looked into extensively (nor am I probably smart enough to do it!)

I will be asking the counsellor if we can discuss this whole messy subject at our next session


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Beatings said:


> ...
> MrX was way before us, even before the boyfriend before me (that I know of)
> I suffer from anxiety and the feeling of snooping through her personal stuff makes me feel sick to my stomach,so I avoid it
> 
> Thanks for the reply


What do you think your stomach will feel like if you find out, lets say three years from now, that she is having full blown unprotected sex with her affair partner and had been the entire time she was with you? 

I understand mental health issues, anxiety and depression especially, but I assure you, choosing to remain in the dark so you can avoid uncomfortable feelings and possible conflict with her, will be much much worse for you in the long run. 

Your story is full of red flags, major ones if the right set of eyes are looking. There is no room for secrets in a healthy marriage. None, zero, absolutely no wiggle room on this issue. Deleting messages, history, text, anything that even resembles that kind of behavior, is a major red flag.

You absolutely need to do some more digging without letting on that you are doing so. VARs (voice activated recorders) cellphone and pc/laptop/tablet monitoring software, are all viable and useful tools in helping you figure out if you are being lied to.

It may seem unnatural to you, but keep in mind, you are not doing it in order to control or manipulate her, or to gain the upper hand in arguments, you are only doing it to verify if she is or if she is not having an emotional or physical affair. Once you have the proof you need, you will know if you are filling for Divorce (in which case you will no longer need to monitor or verify anything) or if you are working on repairing/rebuilding a marriage (A healthy marriage has 100% transparency so there is no need to monitor in that case either) 

You mentioned having blood work done recently, did it include STDs? If not, please go get tested, just in case.

I think you may also be jumping the gun on the couples counseling. I would put that on hold for a while, and find a good individual counselor for yourself. It can be a challenge to find a good one, but once you do, its well worth it. IC (individual counseling) can help you identify issues you want to work on, and maybe shed some light on why you would put up with being treated in the way you describe for so long. 

The couples counselor you have now seems to be ineffective. If your wife turns on the water works every time the Facebook breech of trust is brought up, and the counselor doesn't call her out on her BS, you need a new one. The whole point of counseling is to have a space where you can be vulnerable and still feel safe, I understand the occasional tears during emotional sessions, but the way you describe it, reeks of manipulation and a counselor who is simply looking to milk two people for some dough. So if you do choose to resume MC with her, find a new person to go to.

If you need specific help with evidence gathering, look up a member named 'weightlifter' he has posts extensively dealing with this topic. 

I hope things improve for you soon, an I really hope she isnt banging Mr. X


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

Thank you for that excellent post!
We use condoms,so not worried about STDs
I will looking into software for the phone and tablet

Thanks again everyone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Trying to remember a *recent* thread with more red flags.

Coming up blank.

When you want to go all 007. Let me know, PM a mod and have this moved to coping with infidelity.

Sorry your story has more red flags than a Soviet May Day parade.

Oh and steel yourself. The odds of ugly are high.
No, I'm not subtle but I am damn scary effective... Or just damn scary.


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Trying to remember a *recent* thread with more red flags.
> 
> Coming up blank.
> 
> ...


Thanks! 
Any help would definitely be much appreciated
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Standard post. The thing I can NOT emphasize enough is to play dumb husband for a while. SHUT UP. Eyes OPEN mouth CLOSED!

28 cheating wives and 1 cheating husband have had their affairs blown the fvck up with the below. That I know of. Then I occasionally get a PM from someone thanking who simply poached from when I posted this for someone else.

Paste below:
Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history! 

Credit tacoma 03072014

This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history

Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything she has said into the phone is right here.
I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to.

Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS.

Edit: It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife is not wired like most other people. She does not see sex as a loving act to be shared within a marriage. It's sort of like men who want their wives to screw other men. The majority of people think that sex is a loving bond to share with your spouse. Some just don't look at it that way. 

Your wife is one of those. That's why she had a **** buddy in the past. That's why she's offering you up to sevice people. That's why she talked/bragged about her sex life in the past. And that's why she's a good wife / mother in most regards except sex. She just does not equate it with somethign to do with marriage and creating loving bonds within her marriage.

It's more of an internal wiring / values issue. And unfortunately for you this is a problem. The problem is that you are not safe in your marriage from her cheating. I would highly recommend that you make her take a lie detector test. It's also I think somethign she needs individual counseling for.... This was not cuased by you doing something wrong, not meeting her needs... It's not her reaction to you that is the problem (thus something to do with counseling), but her views on sex within marriage.


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## Beatings (Mar 12, 2014)

Thank you both for those posts

I feel sick In the guts thinking about this, hardly slept this last few days. It's a lot to take in


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