# Im thinking of cheating on my wife



## boatguy101 (Jan 29, 2021)

I've been with the same woman for 22 years i have never cheated but I don't connect with my wife we have alot of of sexual problems we have talked and argued with each other n now things are just not the same I think we love each other but I think we falling out of love if that makes sense she thinks she has to conform to my sexual desires we have a sexless marriage I've tried to get us back to where we were but it seems the more I try the more it just seems like work I have met someone but I haven't cheated I have an opportunity to go to on a trip with her im wondering what it would be like but I also don't want to hurt my wife idk maybe im wanting to much


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Does the woman you are wanting to go on the trip with know you are a married man? And she still wants to go? If so, she can't be much of a prize. But if you're hiding it from her, then that is every kind of wrong.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Cheating is never the solution. Get divorced then date. That’s the correct order.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Do you really want to be that guy?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Sounds like its just time to bail out and get divorced. Even if you do go through with it and cheat, you will still be married to her and going through the same stuff. Cheating won't change your marriage issues...just probably make them worse.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

A woman who agrees to an affair with a married man… what do you think the odds are that she dumps you and runs if you actually divorce your wife? If the marriage isn’t working, get a divorce. Build some character by waiting until you’re legally divorced. Or become one of “those guys” who think they’re so special until they realize that cheaters attract cheaters.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Do you want to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and LIKE what you see?
Then DO NOT cheat. If you are that unhappy, your wife probably is also -- so just divorce.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Don't cheat. You will destroy your wife. If not happy then divorce. Your wife doesn't deserve the trauma because you can't keep it in your pants.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

The craziest part of this is no matter what you do, you will be the bad guy...It's almost a no win..

You leave the marriage, and move on....She tells everyone(or maybe you tell everyone) that your sex life is non existent, you feel unfulfilled, and that's why you left...No one will care and you will be seen as the creep, the sexual deviant, etc...No one will sympathize with you...especially if your wife is otherwise a good woman... If that's the case, watch out...perhaps your own family will ditch you...That same thing happened to one of my good friends...His mother and kids disowned him, because he left the wife and "broke up the family"... When a guy leaves an otherwise good woman for sex or affection, even though it's completely justified, you will need to be prepared to be hammered for it...Not to mention you have to turn your entire life upside down, suffer severe financial hardship, may have to pay alimony, child support, etc, leave the home so she can be there with the kids, etc.,,,Meanwhile all you wanted was some sex, a basic human need.... Sounds crazy, right?

OK...so maybe you decide to stay and get some on the side...Be one of "those guys"...Oh don't worry, unless you are a complete dolt, you will find plenty of takers...Women love to steal other women's men, it's in their DNA... It's as common as belly buttons.. But then you have all the other headaches...The subterfuge, the hiding, the angry OW, etc...

Last option you stay, take care of yourself-so to speak, and continue the insanity....Plenty of guys do this and you wouldn't be the first, nor the last...If you are lucky enough she divorces you...She'll label you a porn addict, when in reality all you were trying to do is not lose your mind...in that case you will still have the degradation of quality of life and financial hardship, but now at least you may get some sympathy and understanding from your friends, family, kids, etc...

I'm not here to give you any advice, only to give you some insight of what may lie ahead...Measure twice and cut once...


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Don't cheat. You will destroy your wife. If not happy then divorce. Your wife doesn't deserve the trauma because you can't keep it in your pants.


And right here is my point exactly..... Simply wanting to have sex with a woman who is supposed to be your wife is "traumatizing".... 😄


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Let’s take a step back here. What do you mean by sexual problems and sexless? What’s actually going on with that?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

What is the sex issue? Is she denying you and has clearly told you why? This might help clarify the situation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*I just deleted a long thread jack. If you post on this thread, post directly to the OP.*


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Have you both been to marriage counselling? Anything else to work on your issues? 
A woman who is prepared to have an affair with a married man has no integrity. Despite what some may say, most women wouldn't do this. Do you want to be with a woman.who has no moral values or integrity? Who can do this to another woman?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

boatguy101 said:


> I've been with the same woman for 22 years i have never cheated but I don't connect with my wife we have alot of of sexual problems we have talked and argued with each other n now things are just not the same I think we love each other but I think we falling out of love if that makes sense she thinks she has to conform to my sexual desires we have a sexless marriage I've tried to get us back to where we were but it seems the more I try the more it just seems like work I have met someone but I haven't cheated I have an opportunity to go to on a trip with her im wondering what it would be like but I also don't want to hurt my wife idk maybe im wanting to much


You don't need to hurt her by cheating on her.
It's better to just give her a no-nonsense and quick divorce. You'll be on the market in no time.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

boatguy101 said:


> I've been with the same woman for 22 years i have never cheated but I don't connect with my wife we have alot of of sexual problems we have talked and argued with each other n now things are just not the same I think we love each other but I think we falling out of love if that makes sense she thinks she has to conform to my sexual desires we have a sexless marriage I've tried to get us back to where we were but it seems the more I try the more it just seems like work I have met someone but I haven't cheated I have an opportunity to go to on a trip with her im wondering what it would be like but I also don't want to hurt my wife idk maybe im wanting to much


So your marriage is over? It'd better be. You're now there. 
Your life is about to change in some dramatic fashion.


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## Kamd (Aug 3, 2019)

Don’t do it! As the wife of a man who has recently cheated, I am broken and in the worst pain of my life. My husband also is in pain and we are trying to heal Seek counseling. Go alone and together if possible. Talk to your wife. find an accountability partner. My husband also had a married woman actively pursuing him. Sure, it stroked his ego, but the damage was not worth it


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

People who cheat are cowards!!! 

Things aren't good at home do what you have to do to try and change it. If this doesn't work and you're still unhappy than divorce her. But cheating???? Again people who go this route are cowards!!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

well, at least you thought to ask advice BEFORE you cheated on her! shows you are thinking this thru.

you have been married 22 years, sounds like she at least deserves the effort of trying marriage counseling first. Maybe she does not realize how much sex means to you, and how her denying you sex is such a big deal breaker for you. Marriage counseling comes with the implied threat that "things are bad in the marriage, and either you work on it with me, or i am out of here". You can stand tall if you take that approach, and then divorce her if she does not lift a finger to change her ways.

and who knows, maybe she has justified grievances that you can work on too!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

boatguy101 said:


> I've been with the same woman for 22 years i have never cheated but I don't connect with my wife we have alot of of sexual problems we have talked and argued with each other n now things are just not the same I think we love each other but I think we falling out of love if that makes sense she thinks she has to conform to my sexual desires we have a sexless marriage I've tried to get us back to where we were but it seems the more I try the more it just seems like work I have met someone but I haven't cheated I have an opportunity to go to on a trip with her im wondering what it would be like but I also don't want to hurt my wife idk maybe im wanting to much


Three threads you started, almost same words in the last 10 months.

If nothing has changed just divorce. Please use punctuation, it makes reading easier.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> The craziest part of this is no matter what you do, you will be the bad guy...It's almost a no win..
> 
> You leave the marriage, and move on....She tells everyone(or maybe you tell everyone) that your sex life is non existent, you feel unfulfilled, and that's why you left...No one will care and you will be seen as the creep, the sexual deviant, etc...No one will sympathize with you...especially if your wife is otherwise a good woman... If that's the case, watch out...perhaps your own family will ditch you...That same thing happened to one of my good friends...His mother and kids disowned him, because he left the wife and "broke up the family"... When a guy leaves an otherwise good woman for sex or affection, even though it's completely justified, you will need to be prepared to be hammered for it...Not to mention you have to turn your entire life upside down, suffer severe financial hardship, may have to pay alimony, child support, etc, leave the home so she can be there with the kids, etc.,,,Meanwhile all you wanted was some sex, a basic human need.... Sounds crazy, right?
> 
> ...


Well said my friend. I always enjoy reading your posts as you say almost exactly what I am thinking.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If you are man of integrity you will 1) stop contact with the ow, 2) talk to your wife, tell her how close you are to wanting out of the marriage and arrange MC together, and 3) once you have given it time and effort over say a year and if it still hasn't changed, end the marriage. 
Once you are divorced you are free to date again, but my advise would be to stay away from anyone who is happy to date a married person.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I’ve read your other threads.

Is your wife even a functional adult? And don’t tell me she’s 41/42, because you know that’s not what I mean. 

Is she capable of living independently and supporting herself and getting herself up to go to work in the morning and able to maintain an apartment and pay bills on time and feed herself with reasonably healthy food etc?


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

If you have been here anytime at all, you've seen the acronym POSOM. Concentrate on the POS portion. Is that who you really want to be?


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

boatguy101 said:


> I've been with the same woman for 22 years i have never cheated but I don't connect with my wife we have alot of of sexual problems we have talked and argued with each other n now things are just not the same I think we love each other but I think we falling out of love if that makes sense she thinks she has to conform to my sexual desires we have a sexless marriage I've tried to get us back to where we were but it seems the more I try the more it just seems like work I have met someone but I haven't cheated I have an opportunity to go to on a trip with her im wondering what it would be like but I also don't want to hurt my wife idk maybe im wanting to much


Fix your marriage, or get a divorce and move on. Obviously, you cannot fix your marriage without the cooperation of your wife. Tell her exactly how you’re feeling, in no uncertain terms, including your attraction to your co-worker, and your desire to go away on a trip with them. If this doesn’t wake your wife up to the fact that there are problems in your marriage that must be addressed, nothing will, and then you can begin to initiate divorce proceedings.

However, if your co-worker knows you’re married, and is still considering going away on a trip with you, you should consider whether or not that is the kind of person you want to become romantically involved with? If you do cheat and go away with this person, then you will have become THAT kind of person, as well.

If you decide to chuck all of the advice that you’re receiving on this thread and become a lying, cheating spouse, you will regret it for the rest of your life.

Ask me how I know.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Don't cheat. Do use periods.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

WHY haven't you left her if you are so unhappy??


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

OP,

It’s time for a sit-down with your wife. Tell her clearly you are done living without a fulfilling sex life. You hope it could be with her but you refuse to force her, nor will you accept begrudging starfish sex from her. Sex is a critical, fundamental component of marriage, and without a willing partner, at least one who’s truly willing to work on improvement, you have no marriage to work with. Tell her you must sadly start the process of D, and you REFUSE to be ashamed to anyone for expecting a mutually satisfying sex life in marriage. 

Are you willing to do this? A side piece would be exciting in the short term but royally screw you over (and NOT in a good way) in the long term. Think of your kids - is cheating the lesson you want to teach them??


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

@boatguy101 You've been complaining about your wife on here for nearly a year, yet you've done nothing about it except find another woman to have an affair with. It is time to man up not cheat, lie and sneak around behind her back. Either end it with divorce and move on, or if you have big cojones you can tell her you want an open marriage.

How about some more details if you really want help rather than the green light to cheat. 

I see there are no kids, so does your wife work full time?
How long has the marriage been sexless?
Have you gone to IC or couples counseling?
You say you've tried to get the two of you back to where you were, what specifically have you done?
Why are you staying married?
In your mind, have you already fallen in love with the OW?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Boatguy, I will state this succinctly: DON'T. Why open yourself to finance ending litigation? Why destroy a house hold? Why hurt people unnecessarily. You want a new relationship? Ask your wife for a divorce, then you can take a trip through *****-land. Affairs cost in every sense of the word. Don't just don't.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

What has your wife done that makes you want to humiliate her? Because that is what you are talking about doing. Hurting, betraying and utterly humiliating her.

If you don’t want to be married, sack up and divorce her. Set her free to find happiness. She deserves that little bit of respect. After all, she’s wasted 22 years and unlike you doesn’t have someone waiting in the wings. It seems like that would be enough pain for her, deliberately telling her and the whole world that she’s unattractive and inadequate is just cruelty for the sake of cruelty.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Taxman said:


> Boatguy, I will state this succinctly: DON'T. Why open yourself to finance ending litigation? Why destroy a house hold? Why hurt people unnecessarily. You want a new relationship? Ask your wife for a divorce, then you can take a trip through ***-land. Affairs cost in every sense of the word. Don't just don't.


I'm not disagreeing but I am not sure I follow the financial litigation point? A divorce will cost the same whether he cheats or not? Maybe its different in Canada but in states at least in Florida, divorce is essentially "no fault" and no reason so it will likely end up in the same financial costs.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

You can't unring that bell Boatguy. I tried cheating in a much worse manner than youre stating and it doesn't help your marriage, if you plan on staying together and just have some on the side. For one thing, its too much work. If the wife has low drive or last romantic interest in you, she won't change. You've got three shots, 1. stay married and take it when you can get it. 2. have a side piece. 3. divorce her.
BTW, you may try talking to her about something on the side. Her response may surprise you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> You can't unring that bell Boatguy. I tried cheating in a much worse manner than youre stating and it doesn't help your marriage, if you plan on staying together and just have some on the side. For one thing, its too much work. If the wife has low drive or last romantic interest in you, she won't change. You've got three shots, 1. stay married and take it when you can get it. 2. have a side piece. 3. divorce her.
> BTW, you may try talking to her about something on the side. Her response may surprise you.


Or she may be deeply hurt and file for divorce. Probably a good thing being that the op can't even do that himself but would rather cheat.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

It's very easy for people on a web forum to sit around and say, "just leave".....They aren't the ones that will be stuck in an apartment over the bakery, eating off a hot plate, and paying for some woman to live in the house that he probably paid for...

And it's one thing if he totally effed up...Beat the woman down, wouldn't go to work, etc.. While admittedly I only know what he's posting and haven't read all the previous threads, but in a case like this, he is basically being forced out because she decided to withhold sex...For whatever reason.. Bear in mind, I wouldn't want anyone to have to do anything they didn't want to do..But why is all the shame and heavy lifting all on him now?? And why should she even care all that much where he is getting his wick wet, if she's not interested in it?? It's almost like getting pissed off because someone used something from the trash you put out at the curb...

Point is she could go on as happy as a pig in **** forever like this....He can't...but all the liabilities, responsibilities and work/effort fall on him....I can't imagine how aggravating that would be...Something just seemingly not right about it...I dunno, there...


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## ButterflyBroken wing (Nov 30, 2021)

Be open with your wife . Say it the truth is better than a lie . I would rather my husband tell me the truth even if it hurts rather than lie and cheat .


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ButterflyBroken wing said:


> Be open with your wife . Say it the truth is better than a lie . I would rather my husband tell me the truth even if it hurts rather than lie and cheat .


At some point in his life, maybe he cared about a little bit at least. Lying, making a fool of her, hurting and humiliating her, he doesn't say that she's cruel to him, why does he think she deserves that?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> It's very easy for people on a web forum to sit around and say, "just leave".....They aren't the ones that will be stuck in an apartment over the bakery, eating off a hot plate, and paying for some woman to live in the house that he probably paid for...
> 
> And it's one thing if he totally effed up...Beat the woman down, wouldn't go to work, etc.. While admittedly I only know what he's posting and haven't read all the previous threads, but in a case like this, he is basically being forced out because she decided to withhold sex...For whatever reason.. Bear in mind, I wouldn't want anyone to have to do anything they didn't want to do..But why is all the shame and heavy lifting all on him now?? And why should she even care all that much where he is getting his wick wet, if she's not interested in it?? It's almost like getting pissed off because someone used something from the trash you put out at the curb...
> 
> Point is she could go on as happy as a pig in **** forever like this....He can't...but all the liabilities, responsibilities and work/effort fall on him....I can't imagine how aggravating that would be...Something just seemingly not right about it...I dunno, there...


I wonder if there is an alternate universe where its the other way around in some of these situations?

Maybe a guy with Low T would be if he never wanted sex with his wife again and SHE was the one posting about finding a single guy to cheat with? 

You're right its always just a crappy situation for all involved...except the ones who may not think there is a problem.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I wonder if there is an alternate universe where its the other way around in some of these situations?
> 
> Maybe a guy with Low T would be if he never wanted sex with his wife again and SHE was the one posting about finding a single guy to cheat with?
> 
> You're right its always just a crappy situation for all involved...except the ones who may not think there is a problem.


Honestly, I bet some of the advice would be VERY different. People wouldn't be sympathetic at ALL to a woman in that situation. I know I would respond the same (because I have in real life). Cheating is being cruel for fun. There is NO excuse for deliberate cruelty.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> It's very easy for people on a web forum to sit around and say, "just leave".....They aren't the ones that will be stuck in an apartment over the bakery, eating off a hot plate, and paying for some woman to live in the house that he probably paid for...
> 
> And it's one thing if he totally effed up...Beat the woman down, wouldn't go to work, etc.. While admittedly I only know what he's posting and haven't read all the previous threads, but in a case like this, he is basically being forced out because she decided to withhold sex...For whatever reason.. Bear in mind, I wouldn't want anyone to have to do anything they didn't want to do..But why is all the shame and heavy lifting all on him now?? And why should she even care all that much where he is getting his wick wet, if she's not interested in it?? It's almost like getting pissed off because someone used something from the trash you put out at the curb...
> 
> Point is she could go on as happy as a pig in **** forever like this....He can't...but all the liabilities, responsibilities and work/effort fall on him....I can't imagine how aggravating that would be...Something just seemingly not right about it...I dunno, there...


We have no idea of their financial situation or their assets so implying that he would live as you say is wrong. As it happens I haven't known a single man who had to live in anyway as you say after a divorce. 
Ending the marriage is far better than cheating and lying.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> We have no idea of their financial situation or their assets so implying that he would live as you say is wrong. As it happens I haven't known a single man who had to live in anyway as you say after a divorce.
> Ending the marriage is far better than cheating and lying.



And "as it happens" every single divorced guy I know has suffered a very significant lifestyle degradation...Why you ask? Because they wind up sacrificing themselves for their kids...That may be their choice, but it doesn't change the fact that the circumstances are what they are...

You are a very nice woman and I respect you, but my guess is your life experiences don't really mirror those of most of the rest of the regular folks...

In a sense though he is being* forced *to end the marriage based on what is at best a bait and switch, and at worst outright fraud...For all we know he married a closet lesbian that has no interest in ****,but thought it might be fun to string a guy along to give the appearance of "normality"......Think it can't happen? Think again...

Like I said, I am not advocating he do anything, just trying to combat the narrative that guys need to "like it or lump it' in these situations...Its complete bullcrap..


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Bottom line is no one with a normal sex drive can stay in a sexless marriage for the long term and be anything but grossly unhappy, depressed, and/or cheat. You have to decide what is most important, your financial position or your chance at happiness.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I wonder if there is an alternate universe where its the other way around in some of these situations?
> 
> Maybe a guy with Low T would be if he never wanted sex with his wife again and SHE was the one posting about finding a single guy to cheat with?
> 
> You're right its always just a crappy situation for all involved...except the ones who may not think there is a problem.


You don't have to wonder there are many examples on this site right now. Though most of those women didn't come looking to cheat. They are told to have his health T-hormone checked then divorce. Most the men that come with sexless marriages are just told to divorce. 

Most on this site don't advise cheating. There are a couple but no many.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> We have no idea of their financial situation or their assets so implying that he would live as you say is wrong. As it happens I haven't known a single man who had to live in anyway as you say after a divorce.
> Ending the marriage is far better than cheating and lying.


I agree we don't know anything but just by one person not wanting sex and then it leading to divorce, both lose 50% of their stuff. And thats the BEST case scenario as it could go 60\40 or worse. 

And having to start all over sucks. All because one person doesn't like having sex.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Here's one. ON top of checking hormones they advised the poster to lose weight (without knowing what her weight was)








Why doesn't he want sex anymore?


My partner and I have been together for 10 years. We have an 8 year old child. We had many ups and downs during our child's first few years but I think that was normal. Sex was seemingly good for 10 whole years but over the last several months it has been abysmal. I don't understand why. I...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Oh, brother. Poop or get off the pot. You came to this forum ten months ago and said you didn't like your wife anymore, sex was crappy, blah, blah, blah. 

So here's a bit of advice: (1) End your marriage by leaving your wife and filing for divorce, and (2) after you have left the wife, go boink whoever you want.

Complaining about an unfulfilling marriage - and having the audacity to suggest cheating rather than ending the marriage - shows a lack of integrity and character. Seriously.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> And "as it happens" every single divorced guy I know has suffered a very significant lifestyle degradation...Why you ask? Because they wind up sacrificing themselves for their kids...That may be their choice, but it doesn't change the fact that the circumstances are what they are...
> 
> You are a very nice woman and I respect you, but my guess is your life experiences don't really mirror those of most of the rest of the regular folks...
> 
> ...


But you do understand that statistically women come out worse off financially than men in most cases and with less earning potential right ?
Women often give up careers to raise children and get on the back foot financially or are left holding the baby so to speak . 
The stats tell the story ‘While women's income recovers over time, compared to the incomes of non-divorced women, they are still significantly behind. Four years after divorce, women experienced *a 2.9% increase in income from* pre-divorce levels compared to an increase of 12.3% for non-divorced women. For divorced men, income increased by 12.5%.’

in fact most men experience a gradual increase of income after divorce . So whilst they may have the initial hit of the split the recover faster and better,


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> And "as it happens" every single divorced guy I know has suffered a very significant lifestyle degradation...Why you ask? Because they wind up sacrificing themselves for their kids...That may be their choice, but it doesn't change the fact that the circumstances are what they are...
> 
> You are a very nice woman and I respect you, but my guess is your life experiences don't really mirror those of most of the rest of the regular folks...
> 
> ...


I was left very poor after my divorce so women do suffer. It's clear that both will have less money after a divorce. Two homes take a lot more money than one. That's life. You have to accept that if you end a marriage. 

No it's not easy ending a marriage, been there done that worn the t shirt. Had to move and loose my home to pay my solicitors fees and my income to care for me and three children was very low. No one said it was easy, but it's better than cheating, lying and deceiving. 
I too am just a regular person who has been through terrible things, probably worse than most here, with many family members divorced as well.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I was left very poor after my divorce so women do suffer. It's clear that both will have less money after a divorce. Two homes take a lot more money than one. That's life. You have to accept that if you end a marriage.
> 
> No it's not easy ending a marriage, been there done that worn the t shirt. Had to move and loose my home to pay my solicitors fees and my income to care for me and three children was very low. No one said it was easy, but it's better than cheating, lying and deceiving.
> I too am just a regular person who has been through terrible things, probably worse than most here, with many family members divorced as well.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

Yes initially both do suffer financially but statistically men end up better off and women worse off 
Sorry to hear what you have been through . I do think that mentally and emotionally it takes a huge toll on both people


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Any time I see a thread like this it always seems like the OP is seeking permission or validation for cheating. There can be a hundred responses advising not to do it but that isn't going to matter, all the OP wants is that one response that leans their way.

If your marriage sucks get a divorce. Cheating has a ripple effect, it destroys people, it destroys friendships, it destroys entire families.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> You don't have to wonder there are many examples on this site right now. Though most of those women didn't come looking to cheat. They are told to have his health T-hormone checked then divorce. Most the men that come with sexless marriages are just told to divorce.
> 
> Most on this site don't advise cheating. There are a couple but no many.


_On having that sexual malfunctioning and curing it with divorce and remarrying._

Men can often be 'fixed'.
Ladies rarely can.

**Men can take Testosterone supplements, take boner pills,.....then later see his wife parade around naked in front of him.

Bingo, bam, thank you Maam!

How do you fix a lady who has very low desire..VLD?
Supplementary hormones are known to be dangerous for woman.

Anyone who can answer this question will be billionaire and he will be swamping our divorce courts.

This is why most say to divorce these LD women, as there is no "cure".

I know, too simplistic (and cruel) an answer.

**(Naturally, the man has to be willing to 'fix' himself.)

Many will not.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Cooper said:


> Cheating has a ripple effect, it destroys people, it destroys friendships, it destroys entire families.


In most cases, so does divorce....


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> _On having that sexual malfunctioning and curing it with divorce and remarrying._
> 
> Men can often be 'fixed'.
> Ladies rarely can.
> ...


I was replying to Floridaguy who was implying that if a woman was complaining about the low drive man that she'd might be told to cheat. It just isn't true. The sex wars on this site are sometimes just tiring.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> _On having that sexual malfunctioning and curing it with divorce and remarrying._
> 
> Men can often be 'fixed'.
> Ladies rarely can.
> ...


Many of us women don’t want guys who need a little blue pill . That’s the honest truth 
Also what you’re saying about low desire in women is not taking into account that many women are low desire with one man because she simply loses attraction or respect or for any other reason but when a new man comes along her desire is sure back 
As a side note to your comment on women’s sex drives . Women’s hormones can be manipulated with hormone therapy if necessary and the women’s Heath initiative ( which scared many away from it ) used only hormones that were incredibly hard on the body 
Now days there is micronised and body identifical hormones . Completely different kettle of fish


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Don’t do it brother..... just get to work on your marriage because clearly it’s broken.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Cooper said:


> Any time I see a thread like this it always seems like the OP is seeking permission or validation for cheating. There can be a hundred responses advising not to do it but that isn't going to matter, all the OP wants is that one response that leans their way.


I think you're absolutely correct. He either wants permission to cheat or has already cheated and wants validation.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> I was replying to Floridaguy who was implying that if a woman was complaining about the low drive man that she'd might be told to cheat. It just isn't true. The sex wars on this site are sometimes just tiring.


Well, thats not really what I was implying (women told to cheat) but its not really all that important so I won't hijack the thread.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Whatonearth said:


> Many of us women don’t want guys who need a little blue pill . That’s the honest truth
> Also what you’re saying about low desire in women is not taking into account that many women are low desire with one man because she simply loses attraction or respect or for any other reason but when a new man comes along her desire is sure back
> As a side note to your comment on women’s sex drives . Women’s hormones can be manipulated with hormone therapy if necessary and the women’s Heath initiative ( which scared many away from it ) used only hormones that were incredibly hard on the body
> Now days there is micronised and body identifical hormones . Completely different kettle of fish


Sounds kind of hypocritical to say women don't want men who need meds to assist yet men should be Ok with having their women have to take something to get their interest back?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Sounds kind of hypocritical to say women don't want men who need meds to assist yet men should be Ok with having their women have to take something to get their interest back?


Agreed. Kind of mean, too, if I'm completely honest. It's not like guys enjoy needing meds for that. A lot of them feel insecure about it, and it's not like it's their fault.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> I was replying to Floridaguy who was implying that if a woman was complaining about the low drive man that she'd might be told to cheat. It just isn't true. The sex wars on this site are sometimes just tiring.


Aye!

I would add, tiring from the beginning of time...

Umm.



_KB-_


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

hamadryad said:


> In most cases, so does divorce....


I agree.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Whatonearth said:


> Many of us women don’t want guys who need a little blue pill . That’s the honest truth
> Also what you’re saying about low desire in women is not taking into account that many women are low desire with one man because she simply loses attraction or respect or for any other reason but when a new man comes along her desire is sure back
> As a side note to your comment on women’s sex drives . Women’s hormones can be manipulated with hormone therapy if necessary and the women’s Heath initiative ( which scared many away from it ) used only hormones that were incredibly hard on the body
> Now days there is micronised and body identifical hormones . Completely different kettle of fish


I completely agree with the low desire comment. It has been seen again and again that a wife supposedly with no sexual desire ends up in a physical affair and/or bedding a new man after divorce and she is giving it her all. The desire is there, just not for him. The key for the man is to reignite that desire she once had, but most aren't up to the task or the issue was ignored too long and they are beyond the point of no return. 

Now on the other part, I don't understand. Just curious, how old are you? I think that may influence your perspective. Why wouldn't you want a man that uses the "little blue pill"? I could see not starting a relationship with a man that already needs them, unless maybe you are both seniors. However, if you are already married to a man and are attracted to him, why no pill if needed? Wouldn't it be a turn on that a man wants you so bad he will take pharmaceuticals just to have sex with you?


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

Yes I should clarify about the little blue pill. It would depend entirely on my feelings for the man . If I was in a relationship and had a connection then I’m sure we would work around it but for a casual thing( not that I do that as I’m in a ltr) , no
However I do know a couple of women who have a problem with the pill thing even in a relationship .


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

Also BigdaddyNY 
I should add that in a relationship where I cared about the man and wanted to work with the ‘little blue pill ‘ situation it would also depend on the reasons for his Ed. With so many men giving themselves porn induced erectile dysfunction now days I certainly wouldn’t feel that he was ‘so attracted to me that he’d take a blue pill ‘ if that were the case and I’d be gone very quickly 
Of on the other hand it were purely medical then yes I would personally be inclined to stay if we were close


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Whatonearth said:


> Also BigdaddyNY
> I should add that in a relationship where I cared about the man and wanted to work with the ‘little blue pill ‘ situation it would also depend on the reasons for his Ed. With so many men giving themselves porn induced erectile dysfunction now days I certainly wouldn’t feel that he was ‘so attracted to me that he’d take a blue pill ‘ if that were the case and I’d be gone very quickly
> Of on the other hand it were purely medical then yes I would personally be inclined to stay if we were close


Can I confess something personal? I'm going to get flamed and probably deleted. My husband was diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy about 8 years ago. (Know how sometimes healthy men in their mid-40s will have a heart attack and no one saw it coming? This is what it was) We discovered it by chance, by luck, he was asymptomatic. Well a couple years ago he told me that he went on ED meds. The meds he's taking for his heart are known to cause that. It was hard for him to tell me, it took a while and I could tell it really hurt his ego. I of course didn't care, he's not less of a man in any way. (He's got so much testosterone, it's like leaving puddles on the floor, it's madness at my house with all the manliness) I admit, I fight insecurity thinking it's because I'm old and I'm about 30 lbs overweight, but please don't tell him I said that because this is NOT about me and it's selfish of me to think like that. Men really struggle with this, and it hurts their feelings. Men, especially true alphas, real men, knight in shining armor, dragon fighting, true protector men who love and respect women, have a super hard time with their feelings about this. It's important to be sensitive and kind. I can't help that I'm getting old (trust me, if there were money I could throw at aging to stop it I would. I'd sacrifice a chicken in a heartbeat to stop this aging garbage. I totally get where Elizabeth Bathory was coming from (google it)) and he can't help this. His son needs him. I need him. The heart meds are keeping his heart healthy and keeping him here. The blue pill is nothing. It's a minor consideration, something we're vaguely aware of, and while I'm doing WW and riding my Peloton to try to fix my part of it (dunno if it will help but it won't hurt) he is never less of anything to me because of it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

boatguy101 said:


> I've been with the same woman for 22 years i have never cheated but I don't connect with my wife we have alot of of sexual problems we have talked and argued with each other n now things are just not the same I think we love each other but I think we falling out of love if that makes sense she thinks she has to conform to my sexual desires we have a sexless marriage I've tried to get us back to where we were but it seems the more I try the more it just seems like work I have met someone but I haven't cheated I have an opportunity to go to on a trip with her im wondering what it would be like but I also don't want to hurt my wife idk maybe im wanting to much


Tell your wife you can no longer live in a sexless marriage. She may be relieved and want a divorce also.
Then have an amicable divorce and move on. Let your wife move on.

Then you can lay women to your hearts content.
just do the right thing, do not cheat while still married.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> And "as it happens" every single divorced guy I know has suffered a very significant lifestyle degradation...Why you ask? Because they wind up sacrificing themselves for their kids...That may be their choice, but it doesn't change the fact that the circumstances are what they are...
> 
> You are a very nice woman and I respect you, but my guess is your life experiences don't really mirror those of most of the rest of the regular folks...
> 
> ...


Noone is saying 'like it or lump it' what people are saying is to be a stand up guy and do the right thing. If it were a woman supporting her family we would say the same thing. So it is not complete bull crap. You are using situational ethics, sometimes its ok to cheat, other times its not. So who makes the rules? YOU?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Truthfully, (sorry mods), if you're seriously cheating you want out. You used to love her. Think about that girl and what you would have done at one time to protect her from this kind of pain. Then do the truly masculine thing to do, and release her.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Can I confess something personal? I'm going to get flamed and probably deleted. My husband was diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy about 8 years ago. (Know how sometimes healthy men in their mid-40s will have a heart attack and no one saw it coming? This is what it was) We discovered it by chance, by luck, he was asymptomatic. Well a couple years ago he told me that he went on ED meds. The meds he's taking for his heart are known to cause that. It was hard for him to tell me, it took a while and I could tell it really hurt his ego. I of course didn't care, he's not less of a man in any way. (He's got so much testosterone, it's like leaving puddles on the floor, it's madness at my house with all the manliness) I admit, I fight insecurity thinking it's because I'm old and I'm about 30 lbs overweight, but please don't tell him I said that because this is NOT about me and it's selfish of me to think like that. Men really struggle with this, and it hurts their feelings. Men, especially true alphas, real men, knight in shining armor, dragon fighting, true protector men who love and respect women, have a super hard time with their feelings about this. It's important to be sensitive and kind. I can't help that I'm getting old (trust me, if there were money I could throw at aging to stop it I would. I'd sacrifice a chicken in a heartbeat to stop this aging garbage. I totally get where Elizabeth Bathory was coming from (google it)) and he can't help this. His son needs him. I need him. The heart meds are keeping his heart healthy and keeping him here. The blue pill is nothing. It's a minor consideration, something we're vaguely aware of, and while I'm doing WW and riding my Peloton to try to fix my part of it (dunno if it will help but it won't hurt) he is never less of anything to me because of it.


Yes I totally hear you and health things like that i would certainly work though . I also get the Elizabeth Bathory reference … I think many of us relate to that

No man would be less to be because of it either , so long as he hadn’t bought it on himself with porn .
I think it’s a very hard thing for both sides to deal with
You sound like a lovely woman


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Whatonearth said:


> Yes I totally hear you and health things like that i would certainly work though . I also get the Elizabeth Bathory reference … I think many of us relate to that
> 
> No man would be less to be because of it either , so long as he hadn’t bought it on himself with porn .
> I think it’s a very hard thing for both sides to deal with
> You sound like a lovely woman


You're very kind. I'd like to be friends. I really am so in love with my amazing husband. I want to deserve him, and I try every day. But he does too. It has to be both people, and if the wife is submissive then men can be what they want, do what they want, they owe their wives nothing. But my husband is a man. He's a hero. He has health issues but those don't change the man his is. I'd didn't know men could love their children so much. He changed my beliefs about men, to be honest. I was so sure they were all like those posters who say women need to be submissive.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

aine said:


> Noone is saying 'like it or lump it' what people are saying is to be *a stand up guy and do the right thing*. If it were a woman supporting her family we would say the same thing. So it is not complete bull crap. You are using situational ethics, sometimes its ok to cheat, other times its not. So who makes the rules? YOU?


There will be nothing "stand up" about ditching a woman(a wife, no less) because she won't put out...In the eyes of many people, it will be the most heinous of deeds....Some may even think it's worse than getting it from someone else...Ok...so maybe he needs to ignore all the noise on the outside and let the chips fall where they may, but no one is gonna be carrying this guy on their shoulders for divorcing...

I'm not using situational anything, nor am I telling him what he should or shouldn't do...Nor am I "making any rules"....lol

There is a general undercurrent that suggests that at some point, it's ok for women to "shut the factory down"...That yes....a man needs to just man up, accept it, and that's that......One previous poster even suggested that he leave to not expose his poor wife to any trauma because he can't keep it in his pants..So now it's traumatizing for a married person to want sex? Who knew??

Maybe the onus should be on her...If she has no interest in him, for whatever reason, then she needs to take action and divorce him...Bear in mind, I am not one of those people that thinks married people should hold their noses and just give sex out of a sense of duty to their partner...Nope...Horrible idea..

I dunno...Its a tough situation and there would be nothing "stand up" about any of it....Pick divorce and face all the garbage that entails...Go outside the marriage and its another giant headache...Fight the lion or the bear,,,,Take your pick, because either way its gonna be painful....


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> There will be nothing "stand up" about ditching a woman(a wife, no less) because she won't put out...In the eyes of many people, it will be the most heinous of deeds....Some may even think it's worse than getting it from someone else...Ok...so maybe he needs to ignore all the noise on the outside and let the chips fall where they may, but no one is gonna be carrying this guy on their shoulders for divorcing...
> 
> I'm not using situational anything, nor am I telling him what he should or shouldn't do...Nor am I "making any rules"....lol
> 
> ...


I agree. Odds are you aren't going to tell anyone but if it ever got out you left a long term marriage becuase your wife didn't want to have sex, you are going to be labled as a jerk. Folks HERE understand the situation but your immediately friends and family in your lives will likely think otherwise.

Stay, cheat, divorce, watch porn....no matter what there is going to be suffering and unhappiness just because one partner decided they didn't want sex any longer.

What would anyone say if the prime wage-earner just decided to stop working and stop supporting the family? Would that be any different? Not sure? And by that I mean working is considered "neccessary" by most people but sex is seen as an optional part of life to many.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Whatonearth said:


> *Many of us women don’t want guys who need a little blue pill . That’s the honest truth*
> Also what you’re saying about low desire in women is not taking into account that many women are low desire with one man because she simply loses attraction or respect or for any other reason but when a new man comes along her desire is sure back
> As a side note to your comment on women’s sex drives . Women’s hormones can be manipulated with hormone therapy if necessary and the women’s Heath initiative ( which scared many away from it ) used only hormones that were incredibly hard on the body
> Now days there is micronised and body identifical hormones . Completely different kettle of fish


I would say that's YOUR personal opinion, not how "many" women feel. In fact, I only know one woman who felt this way, and it was my miserable, sex-withholding mother, so I think it was only an excuse to justify her frigid, unloving treatment of her husband.

Would most PEOPLE like sex to be easy, exciting, and satisfying every single time - YES, of course!! But that's not the reality of human sexual relationships, and most of us know that.
And I would ABSOLUTELY rather have sex with my partner using ANY method that worked, than to have no sex life with him at all. And PIV is only a tiny part of what I love about sharing sexual intimacy with my partner.

Reading your follow-up posts, I see that you clarified that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Odds are you aren't going to tell anyone but if it ever got out you left a long term marriage becuase your wife didn't want to have sex, you are going to be labled as a jerk.


Maybe if she’s a dependent. If she isn’t a dependent and there’s nothing wrong with her I can say most if not all of my friends would give me a high five.

It’s one thing if she gets cancer or something and is sick, then yeah, you’re a prick. If it’s just that she’s done with that or she’s not that into you then IMO that should be celebrated if you break free from it.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Maybe if she’s a dependent. If she isn’t a dependent and there’s nothing wrong with her I can say most if not all of my friends would give me a high five.
> 
> It’s one thing if she gets cancer or something and is sick, then yeah, you’re a prick. If it’s just that she’s done with that or she’s not that into you then IMO that should be celebrated if you break free from it.



High fives or not, most married people don't associate all that much with divorcees...They don't really have much in common anymore...

I have a group of friends that are all clients...One particular guy divorced his wife(for this very scenario) and all the married couples in his particular friend group crapped on him, because I guess they liked her and she cried to all of them about how horrible it was that he left...I guess there if they had to pick a side, better they went with her instead of him...I suppose the dynamic would be different if she dumped him, I don't know...But he is now officially out of that group...And they say the most horrible things about the woman he is currently with..

In any case, regardless of gender, alienation of sex and what then entails isn't going to be fun, and isn't going to be easy...The crazy part is that in many of these cases, the relationship is otherwise just fine...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Maybe if she’s a dependent. If she isn’t a dependent and there’s nothing wrong with her I can say most if not all of my friends would give me a high five.
> 
> It’s one thing if she gets cancer or something and is sick, then yeah, you’re a prick. If it’s just that she’s done with that or she’s not that into you then IMO that should be celebrated if you break free from it.


I agree. Refusing intimacy is, in my opinion, a form of spousal neglect. I don’t think anyone would condemn him for leaving a marriage that’s in all honesty not really a marriage any more.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Maybe if she’s a dependent. If she isn’t a dependent and there’s nothing wrong with her I can say most if not all of my friends would give me a high five.
> 
> It’s one thing if she gets cancer or something and is sick, then yeah, you’re a prick. If it’s just that she’s done with that or she’s not that into you then IMO that should be celebrated if you break free from it.


You would think but even when my ex bailed out on me, I noticed how the way people at work treated me for being "that guy whose wife left". They knew nothing of the story (she left as I didn't make enough money) yet I was still viewed as a "bad guy" for being divorced and I had no control over any of it. Single women would not even come near me for fear I would ask them out or something now yet just right before they all enjoyed going to lunch with me. Strange.

Divorced people understood but married people did not hence why they acted the way they did. Almost as if something was wrong with me for not being good enough to stay married. Yet I did not ask for the divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Y’all are kind of assuming that other people will care if someone else gets divorced or cares why they divorced. 

Her mother and siblings might care a little bit and feel that gives them license to bad mouth him as they probably don’t like him that much to begin with. 

But no one else will really give a hoot.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I agree. Refusing intimacy is, in my opinion, a form of spousal neglect. I don’t think anyone would condemn him for leaving a marriage that’s in all honesty not really a marriage any more.


Except think about it....many folks here know and understand the aspect of sex and intimacy in a marriage as after all, they are here discussing it.

But now take those folks who may not and have them find out you left a long term marriage that may have had children and a nice house and for all purposes looked like a perfect setting...and they hear you left because you didn't get enough sex or didn't get a BJ or didn't get to do doggystyle in the pool (whatever the ex might tell everyone).

You as the guy are definitely going to look like the bad guy for it. Now I don't care what folks think of me but what if it gets back to the guy's job or business clients? That could really affect him.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Y’all are kind of assuming that other people will care if someone else gets divorced or cares why they divorced.
> 
> Her mother and siblings might care a little bit and feel that gives them license to bad mouth him as they probably don’t like him that much to begin with.
> 
> But no one else will really give a hoot.


See my reply about how it might affect his job below (Above)


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Whatonearth said:


> Also BigdaddyNY
> I should add that in a relationship where I cared about the man and wanted to work with the ‘little blue pill ‘ situation it would also depend on the reasons for his Ed. With so many men giving themselves porn induced erectile dysfunction now days I certainly wouldn’t feel that he was ‘so attracted to me that he’d take a blue pill ‘ if that were the case and I’d be gone very quickly
> Of on the other hand it were purely medical then yes I would personally be inclined to stay if we were close


Thank you for the clarification. I just couldn't understand why you would not want a man that you are attracted to simply because he has a medical condition that is being treated successfully. Many post menopausal women need hormonal therapy or maybe something for vaginal dryness in order to be intimate, but that wouldn't turn me off to the woman I love, and love having sex with. I completely agree about the porn thing. A self induced issue is a totally different story. Even in that case though, I would bet you aren't turned off by his need for the pill, but rather you are turned off by the habitual porn use that drove the need for the medication.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Hmm I mostly have a completely separate friend group to my wife and a lot of my friends do as well. I wouldn’t consider any of my wife’s friends my friend who I would talk to without her. So for me this wouldn’t be an issue at all.

Sure I will go out with her and her friends together but I am not going to communicate with any of them in her absence.

Maybe I’m weird.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Can I confess something personal? I'm going to get flamed and probably deleted. My husband was diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy about 8 years ago. (Know how sometimes healthy men in their mid-40s will have a heart attack and no one saw it coming? This is what it was) We discovered it by chance, by luck, he was asymptomatic. Well a couple years ago he told me that he went on ED meds. The meds he's taking for his heart are known to cause that. It was hard for him to tell me, it took a while and I could tell it really hurt his ego. I of course didn't care, he's not less of a man in any way. (He's got so much testosterone, it's like leaving puddles on the floor, it's madness at my house with all the manliness) I admit, I fight insecurity thinking it's because I'm old and I'm about 30 lbs overweight, but please don't tell him I said that because this is NOT about me and it's selfish of me to think like that. Men really struggle with this, and it hurts their feelings. Men, especially true alphas, real men, knight in shining armor, dragon fighting, true protector men who love and respect women, have a super hard time with their feelings about this. It's important to be sensitive and kind. I can't help that I'm getting old (trust me, if there were money I could throw at aging to stop it I would. I'd sacrifice a chicken in a heartbeat to stop this aging garbage. I totally get where Elizabeth Bathory was coming from (google it)) and he can't help this. His son needs him. I need him. The heart meds are keeping his heart healthy and keeping him here. The blue pill is nothing. It's a minor consideration, something we're vaguely aware of, and while I'm doing WW and riding my Peloton to try to fix my part of it (dunno if it will help but it won't hurt) he is never less of anything to me because of it.


I have no idea why you think this post would get you flamed. What you described here is exactly how a marriage should be, in my opinion. It is a very difficult subject for guys, but their wife is the one person they should be able to talk to about it, besides their doctor. Even though you go off the deep end here occasionally  it is obvious from your posts that not only do you love your husband, but you are truly IN love with him. 



TexasMom1216 said:


> Slavery is always demeaning. If a woman is a submissive and is not allowed to say no, every time, every single time, is against her will. Enjoy your triumph.
> 
> There are carefully described punishments for women who dare to think they deserve decent treatment. A woman who does not accept abuse as her due is punished and that is specifically laid out in writing.
> 
> There is no such punishment for men who are cruel or murder their wives. There is no scripture that says men must not abuse the wives they are forcing into slavery.


I'm not going to delve into the biblical aspect of submissiveness. To me being submissive just recognizes that someone in the family has to be the leader. Everyone else is, to some degree, submissive to the leader, including the wife. The best analogy I've seen is comparing husband and wife to captain and first officer of the ship. The captain is ultimately responsible, but the first officer is the captain's top advisor and provides input. This is really where respect comes in. I know I am the captain of our ship, but I listen to and respect everything my wife has to say. The first officer is also more than capable to take over the captain's duties if he is no longer able to lead, either temporarily or permanently. 

As for the sex aspect of this, a wife always has the right to say no. However, the reason for the no is very relevant. It would take too long to get into the details of the multitude of reasons she says no, so I'll just say some are valid and some are just because she doesn't want to. The second one is a problem, especial when a pattern of increasing frequency of no starts. To me it means she is losing or has lost sexual attraction. That will become a problem over time. I do believe the husband has an obligation to work on maintaining that attraction, as does the wife. I also believe that if the husband is doing everything he reasonably can to maintain that attraction and it does not work and the no continues he is justified in ending the marriage. Same is true for the wife. To me a marriage without intimacy isn't a marriage. This is where I suspect the OP is failing. I doubt he has done the work to maintain or regain his wife's attraction to him. Now he is spending that energy on another woman, which is shameful IMO.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Spend a week or two watching "Dateline" or "Forensic Files" and you will see story after story about people who thought _murder _was a better option than divorce....

But yeah....no one cares....easy peasy....


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> There will be nothing "stand up" about ditching a woman(a wife, no less) because she won't put out...In the eyes of many people, it will be the most heinous of deeds....Some may even think it's worse than getting it from someone else...Ok...so maybe he needs to ignore all the noise on the outside and let the chips fall where they may, but no one is gonna be carrying this guy on their shoulders for divorcing...
> 
> I'm not using situational anything, nor am I telling him what he should or shouldn't do...Nor am I "making any rules"....lol
> 
> ...


To me the people that think divorcing because you want a wife not a roommate is a heinous deed are people I don't need in my life. Especially if they think infidelity is a lesser evil. I really don't want them in my life. To me that is all twisted. Why would I want approval from someone with an view on the subject that is a complete 180 from mine?


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

So @boatguy101 came here, threw a grenade and left, and almost every one is trying to explain to @TexasMom1216 what a submissive wife means, while the topic is about @boatguy101 who is having real problems with his neglectful wife, so if he divorces her or cheats on her the poor neglectful wife will be heart broken and devastated when she didn't care one bit about her husband needs!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Except think about it....many folks here know and understand the aspect of sex and intimacy in a marriage as after all, they are here discussing it.
> 
> But now take those folks who may not and have them find out you left a long term marriage that may have had children and a nice house and for all purposes looked like a perfect setting...and they hear you left because you didn't get enough sex or didn't get a BJ or didn't get to do doggystyle in the pool (whatever the ex might tell everyone).
> 
> You as the guy are definitely going to look like the bad guy for it. Now I don't care what folks think of me but what if it gets back to the guy's job or business clients? That could really affect him.


I see what you're saying. I guess I find it hard to believe someone would really think that way, because divorce is not that simple. But you make a good point: people with no experience with divorce might think the man was being a jerk. I know what you say is true, because I have known women who divorced because their husband was controlling and abusive but never put them in the hospital. I spent some time in a church group in my twenties, and women who divorce unfaithful husbands or over abuse when they were never permanently injured (like put in a wheelchair, something from which they could not heal) were held in contempt for not submitting to their husbands. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could just mind their own beeswax and respect each other? Of course, if people respected each other there would be a lot less divorce.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Divorced people understood but married people did not hence why they acted the way they did. Almost as if something was wrong with me for not being good enough to stay married. Yet I did not ask for the divorce.


Ugh, I'm so sorry. I've seen it. There is a lot of judgement over divorce. I don't think it's worse for men or for women, it's just bad all around for everyone. Not to threadjack, I just sympathize. People can be really mean. 

On topic: Honestly, if the guy cheated, most people, especially the religious ones, wouldn't look down on that as much as they would look down on divorce. Maybe that is why the OP is talking about cheating: because it's honestly more socially acceptable than leaving over a lack of intimacy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Except think about it....many folks here know and understand the aspect of sex and intimacy in a marriage as after all, they are here discussing it.
> 
> But now take those folks who may not and have them find out you left a long term marriage that may have had children and a nice house and for all purposes looked like a perfect setting...and they hear you left because you didn't get enough sex or didn't get a BJ or didn't get to do doggystyle in the pool (whatever the ex might tell everyone).
> 
> You as the guy are definitely going to look like the bad guy for it. Now I don't care what folks think of me but what if it gets back to the guy's job or business clients? That could really affect him.


But why should anyone know why someone divorced?? Unless you go around telling people it was due to lack of BJs, who’s gonna know?

Besides, there are almost as many divorced people out there as there is people who have never divorced and everyone has had some break ups during the course of their life.

Divorce is a big deal at the time for those going through it and people may think that others give a crap and are judging them etc. 

But the reality is very few people actually care one bit. Most people have problems of their own and don’t really care about other people’s problems. 

If anything, they may get some kind of sick sense of enjoyment out of it that someone else is going through crap as well.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Boat guy appears to be a 'hit and run' guy. Hopefully he's reading all this and rethinking his cheating thoughts.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

My favorite was the advice to boat guy to wait one (more) year to see if she would change. 
This is boat guy's 3rd thread and his most successful. But, his relationship is just 10 months further down the toilet form when he first arrived.
I'm sure Mrs. Guy would tell a different story.
But for those of you trying to turn this into a religious thread:
There are no children.
The marriage is long term sexless.
The couple have serious communication issues.
No one is being coerced. Both are willing participants in this **** show.
She does not have a history of full time employment and will score big in an alimony state.
She probably wouldn't survive without his support.
He is living alone in marriage. 
They have been a weekend only couple for some time.

Advise away, but there is no good way out. If he wants sex he will have to support an ex wife, and a girlfriend.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> To me the people that think divorcing because you want a wife not a roommate is a heinous deed are people I don't need in my life. Especially if they think infidelity is a lesser evil. I really don't want them in my life. To me that is all twisted. Why would I want approval from someone with an view on the subject that is a complete 180 from mine?


Some people care and some don't .....Heck, I might tell people that I divorced because she wouldn't participate in animal sacrifices just for craps and giggles...but that's me....

But there are a lot of people that do care about their status in the community, with their married friends, their family, etc...People(esp women) like to chat things up and start a gossip trail on people that are close to them...If it was an issue of sex, they'd probably find a way to get to the bottom of that...

I'd find particularly hard to believe that if say, a long term married guy in his 40's., 50's. 60's with kids or grandkids wouldn't look _really _bad for ditching an otherwise good woman because she didn't want to eff him anymore...He'd get crushed over it...The women would call him an insensitive a-hole and the guys would probably call him stupid for wanting it or not figuring out a work around...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> Some people care and some don't .....Heck, I might tell people that I divorced because she wouldn't participate in animal sacrifices just for craps and giggles...but that's me....
> 
> But there are a lot of people that do care about their status in the community, with their married friends, their family, etc...People(esp women) like to chat things up and start a gossip trail on people that are close to them...If it was an issue of sex, they'd probably find a way to get to the bottom of that...
> 
> I'd find particularly hard to believe that if say, a long term married guy in his 40's., 50's. 60's with kids or grandkids wouldn't look _really _bad for ditching an otherwise good woman because she didn't want to eff him anymore...He'd get crushed over it...The women would call him an insensitive a-hole and the guys would probably call him stupid for wanting it or not figuring out a work around...


I’d bet good money the people that point fingers and act all Judgey McJudger the most, are the ones that are envious he had the balls to leave and pursue his own best interests.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I’d bet good money the people that point fingers and act all Judgey McJudger the most, are the ones that are envious he had the balls to leave and pursue his own best interests.


Good point....i'd agree...


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> But why should anyone know why someone divorced?? Unless you go around telling people it was due to lack of BJs, who’s gonna know?
> 
> Besides, there are almost as many divorced people out there as there is people who have never divorced and everyone has had some break ups during the course of their life.
> 
> ...


You are not going to tell but your ex is. And if know the same people or work with the same people as your ex, it can have effects.

Yeah most of the time its not an issue but it definitely could be.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

jorgegene said:


> Boat guy appears to be a 'hit and run' guy. Hopefully he's reading all this and rethinking his cheating thoughts.


Or he is thinking "Hell, its easier to work things out with my wife or get divorced than read through this whole hi-jaclked thread!"


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I’d bet good money the people that point fingers and act all Judgey McJudger the most, are the ones that are envious he had the balls to leave and pursue his own best interests.


In other words, they may be tongue-clicking and talking good smack, but deep down they are envious and thinking “that lucky bastard!”

And the reason the church ladies are talking smack is to try to shame their own sexless husbands out of trying to take any action. 

People may point fingers and talk all judgey, but deep down most are envious and the few that aren’t envious are running scared that it will give their own neglected spouse ideas.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> You are not going to tell but your ex is. And if know the same people or work with the same people as your ex, it can have effects.
> 
> Yeah most of the time its not an issue but it definitely could be.


No, the ex is going to say he was addicted to porn or was sexting with instagram girls or getting with other chicks. 

She’s not going to admit to being a cold fish and a dud in the sack. That would shoot her own foot more than it would slander him.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

The op seems to be a hit and run.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

karole said:


> The op seems to be a hit and run.


He’ll be back in a year or so. He’s just waiting for someone to tell him to go ahead and hit it with someone else.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I would say that's YOUR personal opinion, not how "many" women feel. In fact, I only know one woman who felt this way, and it was my miserable, sex-withholding mother, so I think it was only an excuse to justify her frigid, unloving treatment of her husband.
> 
> Would most PEOPLE like sex to be easy, exciting, and satisfying every single time - YES, of course!! But that's not the reality of human sexual relationships, and most of us know that.
> And I would ABSOLUTELY rather have sex with my partner using ANY method that worked, than to have no sex life with him at all. And PIV is only a tiny part of what I love about sharing sexual intimacy with my partner.
> ...


Yes absolutely I clarified that it would only be an issue for me with a man I loved if the partner had bought it on himself with porn
Whether it’s many women who would have a problem with Ed or only some I’m not certain . It seems to me that a few I know have .
The reality is that it’s going to depend on the individuals involved .


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> He’ll be back in a year or so. He’s just waiting for someone to tell him to go ahead and hit it with someone else.


Sounds like you might be right which is a shame cause a lot of people will be hurt if that’s the choice he makes


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Ugh, I'm so sorry. I've seen it. There is a lot of judgement over divorce. I don't think it's worse for men or for women, it's just bad all around for everyone. Not to threadjack, I just sympathize. People can be really mean.
> 
> On topic: Honestly, if the guy cheated, most people, especially the religious ones, wouldn't look down on that as much as they would look down on divorce. Maybe that is why the OP is talking about cheating: because it's honestly more socially acceptable than leaving over a lack of intimacy.


I must be very fortunate because I never had anyone, Christian or not, be judgemental or unkind about me being divorced. Don't think my husband has either. Its just so common nowadays, no one seems to worry about it. 

As for the reasons, neither of us told many people why we were divorced. Even today 22 years after my first marriage ended only about 10 people know the reason why.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> In other words, they may be tongue-clicking and talking good smack, but deep down they are envious and thinking “that lucky bastard!”
> 
> And the reason the church ladies are talking smack is to try to shame their own sexless husbands out of trying to take any action.
> 
> People may point fingers and talk all judgey, but deep down most are envious and the few that aren’t envious are running scared that it will give their own neglected spouse ideas.


You are SO very wrong and are being very judgemental your self about people you know nothing about. Making very wrong assumptions about Christian marriages in which you have no clue what happens. 

I had NO one judge me when I got divorced, in the church or out. People were very sympathetic, kind and understanding. 
My husband was the same, no issues at all from others about being divorced. 
Divorce is so common, it's just not an issue now. 

Oh and BTW Christian marriages are far from sexless believe me. Plus they aren't saying 'lucky him' or being jealous. No one who has been through a divorce would wish it on anyone.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I must be very fortunate because I never had anyone, Christian or not, be judgemental or unkind about me being divorced. Don't think my husband has either. Its just so common nowadays, no one seems to worry about it.
> 
> As for the reasons, neither of us told many people why we were divorced. Even today 22 years after my first marriage ended only about 10 people know the reason why.


 You are very fortunate. During the time I spent involved with the church, which was my entire childhood and most of my twenties, everyone was VERY cruel. Every single sermon there was some mention of the evils of divorced women.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

So a guy comes here and posts that he's thinking of cheating on his wife. I hadn't checked this thread in several days. Now it's become a debate on whether or not women are the property of their husbands, which would make them slaves. I'm reading and thinking WTF?!?!? Doesn't seem to be relevant to a guy who's considering adultery, but okay ... whatever.

One thing I agree with is that ignore function can be your friend and save you from reading crap that can be a big trigger. Sure works for me!

Oh, yeah, and as I previously stated, the OP should divorce his wife rather than cheat on her.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> So a guy comes here and posts that he's thinking of cheating on his wife. I hadn't checked this thread in several days. Now it's become a debate on whether or not women are the property of their husbands, which would make them slaves. I'm reading and thinking WTF?!?!? Doesn't seem to be relevant to a guy who's considering adultery, but okay ... whatever.
> 
> One thing I agree with is that ignore function can be your friend and save you from reading crap that can be a big trigger. Sure works for me!
> 
> Oh, yeah, and as I previously stated, the OP should divorce his wife rather than cheat on her.


yes that’s true , but I think there also has to be some recognition that situations seldom happen in isolation and some people are going to offer advice based on their religious beliefs which entangles it further


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Whatonearth said:


> yes that’s true , but I think there also has to be some recognition that situations seldom happen in isolation and some people are going to offer advice based on their religious beliefs which entangles it further


If you want to continue talking about it, might be better to start a new thread. It's a good point that maybe the OP hasn't been back because of the direction the thread has taken.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You are very fortunate. During the time I spent involved with the church, which was my entire childhood and most of my twenties, everyone was VERY cruel. Every single sermon there was some mention of the evils of divorced women.


I am not aware of it happening here and I have been to many churches of 6 different denominations over my 65 years. Never heard a single sermon about the evils of divorced women. 

One of our past pastors was married to a previously divorced lady.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I had NO one judge me when I got divorced, in the church or out. People were very sympathetic, kind and understanding.
> My husband was the same, no issues at all from others about being divorced.
> Divorce is so common, it's just not an issue now.


This was kind of my original point a page or two back. I don’t think most people really care. 

And by the time people are in their 50s, if they themselves haven’t been divorced yet, they have many close friends and relatives and coworkers etc who have. 

And of the people in their 50s who haven’t divorced, I’d bet the majority have given it some serious consideration. 

Now Yes there are judgmental jerks from all denominations who will point fingers and blame. 

But 5 minutes later most of them won’t care as they have problems of their own.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*MODERATOR WARNING:- *I just had to spend over an hour cleaning up a totally off topic threadjack.

Please. No more. If you want to debate religious topics please use the appropriate section on TAM. Thank you.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

If you have no kids, divorce. Then do whatever you want. Not the other way around.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I agree. Odds are you aren't going to tell anyone but if it ever got out you left a long term marriage becuase your wife didn't want to have sex, you are going to be labled as a jerk. Folks HERE understand the situation but your immediately friends and family in your lives will likely think otherwise.
> 
> Stay, cheat, divorce, watch porn....no matter what there is going to be suffering and unhappiness just because one partner decided they didn't want sex any longer.
> 
> What would anyone say if the prime wage-earner just decided to stop working and stop supporting the family? Would that be any different? Not sure? And by that I mean working is considered "neccessary" by most people but sex is seen as an optional part of life to many.


people are hardly going to announce the reason for the divorce. Doesn't if fall under 'irreconcilable differences"? He wants sex, she doesn't, simple.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

aine said:


> people are hardly going to announce the reason for the divorce. Doesn't if fall under 'irreconcilable differences"? He wants sex, she doesn't, simple.


Yeah I know people aren't going to annouce it but its what your ex says that can come back to haunt you.


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

boatguy101 said:


> I've been with the same woman for 22 years i have never cheated but I don't connect with my wife we have alot of of sexual problems we have talked and argued with each other n now things are just not the same I think we love each other but I think we falling out of love if that makes sense she thinks she has to conform to my sexual desires we have a sexless marriage I've tried to get us back to where we were but it seems the more I try the more it just seems like work I have met someone but I haven't cheated I have an opportunity to go to on a trip with her im wondering what it would be like but I also don't want to hurt my wife idk maybe im wanting to much


I feel differently from most on here. 
You both met and fell in love with each other. Your wife fell in love with the emotional part of the attraction and you fell in love with the sex part of the attraction. This is just how it works. 
You both did not turn each other down and the sex was endless, just like most. 
After marriage, the one holding back controls the affection of the relationship, but expects the other to just put up with it. This in itself is being dishonest, so why should the other remain honest?

It is suppose to be until death do you part, but how about the rest?
Does it not say - The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time.
So for this, the wife breaks the vow, so the rights of the marriage no longer apply. 
Most don't realize, most who fall into this category do not want to leave, because of children, age and the dynamics of the relationship, other than sex. 
For this, I say then offer her 1 chance to an open marriage, since she does not want to perform for her husband. If the answer is no, then fill that desire elsewhere, just don't get caught....


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