# Very complicated... please help



## Russell (Apr 10, 2008)

To Whom it May Concern,
My name is Russ. And I have a very... off the wall... story to tell. Let me tell you this now, I am the blindest man to ever live on this earth we call home. Now let me tell you why.
In June of 1993, after a very disturbing relationship with a girl, I strated looking up some old school friends. Some of the people I intended to look up was the 'twins' in high school. I'll call them Jean and Jane, to protect thier identities so if anyone around Erie Pa reads this board. Well, I started spending a lot of time with Jean, and I noticed Jane became very jealous. That attracted me to her, a lot. Two years later, we were married. Ten days after we married, I left for the army.
We had a rough life in the army. My job seperated us more than anything else. Out of 8 years in the army, about 4 of them were spent away from Jane. I decided to get out after Bush wanted Iraqi oil fields for his own. We seperated from the army and now the real story begins.
I always had a fantasy about Jane sleeping with another man. She said the only way she could have sex with another man was if feelings were involved. Once in a while I would bring it up to her, and that was the response I got from her everytime. You should watch for what you wish for, you just might get it.
Jane and I enjoyed life a lot. Had a limited social life, but we didn't mind not going out or whatnot. We had a good life at home. I got a decent job at a local driving company where it toned my body very well. Jane liked this. I also had a drinking problem. I also played an online game called EverQuest. Jane and I played for a long time before she got pregnant. We had our first child 11 years into our marriage. We named him Thomas William, after my father. It is now 13 years into our marriage. And I got what I wanted. Between the drinking and the EQ, I started ignoring Jane. She tried telling me that she was feeling more distant from me, and thought we should see a marriage counselor. I didn't know what she was trying to tell me. She didn't come out and say I am falling out of love with you. Recently she has come to me with the news that she is having an affair. I have since quite drinking. I have also vowed to sell our EQ accts. I have no use for them. I have discvered many things about myself during the course of recent events. 
I have found that all this was my fault if I had only known what she was trying to tell me. I have had five days sobre now, and I am noticing a lot more a bout life now. For starters, my son is a very good child. He has a smile that is amazing. My wife and I are now almost barely talking, and she knows that this has absolutely devastated me. I had no clue untill it was too late. I didn't see it coming. I have been also giving up smoking, and I finally have the strength to do it. I am more focused on what is important than ever in my life. My wife, she isn't noticing though. She feels that this is all a ploy just to get me back in her arms again. She doesn't know that it will just be for the rest of our lives. I know she still loves me. She hasn't kicked me out. And I am now feeling more in love with her than I ever have before. 
She is torturing me. She knows this is driving me insane. Our roles are now 100% reversed. Today she spent a whole 2 hours with our son before she decided to take off to go see her boyfriend. Now I don't mind watching my son, but all the little things she did before, are now totally gone. She is going off on Tommy for no reason, treating me like I am already discarded, and the worst part of it is I work first shift and she works second. So today, I come home from doing things to get a new job, and she immediately takes off as soon as I got home. I have the job, just waiting on a start date. I told her the only way I am giving her a divorce is after two years. This way we both will know by then if our marriage is salvagable. Her boyfriend is attempting to goad me into a physical confrontation. If he ever hits me, he has no clue what he is gonna have done to him. I outweigh him and I am much stronger, by a long shot, and I can take a hit very well. I would absolutely demolish this guy because I am so fuelled by emotion. But I am not looking forward to a confrontation. I don't want to hurt anyone. Enough people have already been hurt through this. 
The biggest of my concerns is our son. I know I will be getting laid off in the winter, so I would like to take Tommy for the school year. It will be nice having good quality time to spend with him. We havent discussed any of this, but she says she will never deny me the right to see him. And I told her the same, however I can not let another man raise my son. Its too much to bear. 
I would also like to try to salvage our relationship. I know I have hurt her. I know that this is all my fault. I am very sincere with my love for Jane, and she means everything to me with Tommy. I call her Tommy's Mommy. 
In the end, I have a feeling the ony outcome with this is going to be my death, dyeing from a broken heart and the lack of will to live. I never saw this coming. And I was the only one. But noone else said anything to me. 
Am I just being selfish? Should I let her go? I know if I do she will be gone forever, and I will rot into eternity waiting for her return. The future looks very scary. So uncertain, so lifeless. And I now only see.... thats what she was going through before the affair. Please, I need someone to talk to as my only friend is the one that is doing this to me. I am feeling suicidal, and I don't know if I can make it through this without her help. My parents won't help me. They said I made my bed now lie in it. My finances are shattered. There is no way I am going to be able to afford rent, utilities, car and insurance payments. However I have to be able to provide a two bedroom place for my son. He will need a bed, I will need a bed. I have nothing. 
Someone, please help me. I do not want our marriage to end. I am still very muchso in love with her and I know she still loves me. The question is how can I get her to see that through all that we've been through, feeling like the love we share may change, however I know for a fact that she still has feelings for me. 

I've destroyed my life.

To quote "Would it be wrong, would it be right
If I took my life tonight, chance are that I might
Mutilation out of sight and I'm contemplating suicide."


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Russ,

Your whole world feels like it's fallen apart and you quit drinking in the meantime? Ok, that tells me something about your strength. I have felt very suicidal myself and honestly do not think I would be here today if I hadn't just watched my daughter as she slept and realized that is the ONE thing that really did matter. Tommy needs you. Don't think for a minute you can justify that he will be Ok...that will never be Ok for him...it would change who he is. Talk to someone...find an AA group or some support system so you can talk face to face with people going through this....YOU ARE WORTH IT....TOMMY IS WORTH IT.


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## CantThinkOfAJUserName (Apr 11, 2008)

Russell,

You may not have been a good husband but etch this into your consciousness *There is no excuse to cheat on a spouse. None*, the only honorable choice is to go to marriage counseling and if that fails then divorce and move on. I'll give points to your wife for telling you she was having feelings for another man but *she is solely responsible for the decision to have an affair*. Remember this always. Furthermore, your wife is being a fool for rebound relationships seldom work out and that is because it takes time to emotionally heal from the previous relationship.

Now please consider the following information:

12 Unattractive, Ugly, Typical Tactics Most People Use to Prolong the Affair and Guarantee Their Own Misery. by Dr. Robert Huizenga

1) Say "I love you"

Saying "I love you," especially repeatedly, often pushes your spouse away and in essence, probably does not reflect the truth of what you really want to say. What does it mean to say, "I love you?" especially at this juncture in your relationship? Do you know? Does he/she? The words "I love you" are powerful in the beginning stages of a relationship where they match the underlying powerful feelings of attraction. "I love you then" means:

I'm attracted to you. I want to be with you. I experience good feelings when I am with you or think about you. Or, the words are powerful later in the relationship when special occasions recall the feelings that brought you together or when the stability of the relationship is temporarily threated and you express your commitment to your spouse. But, when in the midst of dealing with an affair, using the words "I love you" are inadequate and in reality, poor communication. They do not express what you really want to say. Nor does your spouse, who is allegedly "in love" with another person, know what to do with that statement. Here are ways your spouse might respond internally when he hears those words from you:

"Yeah right! What does he/she want now? He's/She's just saying that so I won't leave. Or, he's/she's just saying that so I will leave the other man/woman. He's/She's using that to manipulate me. So, I will walk away or not say anything."
“He/She loves ME? Yeah right! How can he/she love me when I do something like this. It doesn't make sense. Who would love someone who fools around on them. If he/she fooled around on me, I know I wouldn't love him/her.”
“Hey, this is cool! I got two of them wanting me. Man, it feels great to be pursued by two people. It is great to be loved by two people. (This may not be acknowledged but it might lie behind a need to continue the soap opera drama.)”
"He/She loves me? What is the world does that mean? What is he/she trying to say when he/she says that? I don't understand. Is that all he/she can say? Isn't there more he/she needs to say to me. How am I to respond? Say "I love you too?" Geezzz, it's not that simple.”
“I hate it when he/she says "I love you." That really makes him/her unattractive. He/She seems so sickingly needy when he/she says that. And, that really turns me off. When he/she says it, I think of a whining lost little boy/girl who needs reassurance. Sorry, but I'm not there. I don't want to be a father/mother.”

What are you really saying? Here are some possibilities. Do any fit?
"I love you" means I need you. My life is incomplete or insufficient without you. I have little clue of who I am outside of you and I need you to define who I am. I cannot think of having a life of my own."
"I love you" means don't leave me. I'm afraid of life on my own. I am terrified of what might happen. Tell me you love me, that you will be there for me so I don't have to think of making my own way. Calm my fears, because I'm not sure I can." "I love you" means I'm a wimp. I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to really confront you with what I'm really thinking and feeling. I don't want to take a stand and say ENOUGH. I will tolerate almost anything."
"I love you" means I'm sad. It feels sad to see the relationship and dreams crumble. It's sad to feel the distance, mistrust, pain and agony. It's sad to think of that which might never happen. It's sad to think of maybe not growing old with you.“
"I love you" means I remember with loving feelings who you were and who I was. I remember who we were. I remember the good times. I remember the way it used to be. I remember what it was like to love and be there for each other. I miss that. I love those memories and maybe, that's all they are.

2) Criticize, complain, whine, nag.

This should be fairly obvious. Criticizing, complaining, whining and nagging are not attractive! Who wants to be around such a person? When I criticize or complain I have a hard time being around myself.

This behavior is usually an attempt to deal with the internal tension you feel. You don't know where to go with the tension, so it seeps out around the edges. Something your spouse says or does, and it doesn't have to be major, will trigger the tension and you spit out the negativity. You may be unaware that it is happening, since it probably is a fairly long standing habit. And, of course, your spouse will respond in his/her typical fashion, probably by moving away or countering you with his/her negativity. Ever feel like you hit a brick wall, time and time again? It hurts, doesn't it. And, you go nowhere.

What would happen if you stopped using criticism, complaining or whining? What could you do instead? What does your criticizing, complaining and nagging supposedly get for you? Give it some thought. (Here's what you might find: You are trying to get something, or you want something to happen or you have some expectation and it's not there. Can you find
a different way to let this person know what you want, what you need or how you would like your life to be, without resorting to something that is absolutely guaranteed to give you the opposite of what you truly desire?)

3) Say "I've changed".

In an attempt to persuade a spouse to stop an affair or restore a relationship you may use the ploy, "But, I've changed. I'm a different person." And your behavior may truly be different " most of the time. You try to accommodate in ways you haven't tried before or you alter your behavior to fit your perception of what he/she wants you to do. Here are some problems with this strategy:

"Is it true? Have you really changed or are you in a reactive mode? You are reacting to a painful situation by trying on different behaviors. There is nothing wrong with this. Actually you are to be commended. It probably takes a great deal of energy and conscious thought to alter, especially in a drastic manner, some of your habits.
" If you continue the new behaviors they may gradually sink in and truly become a part of you. However, these changes usually lack staying power because they are born out of reactivity.
" You will return to the old patterns, especially when the heat is off. And, your spouse intuitively knows this. He/she thinks, 'this will never last" and is highly suspicious.
" Your change will probably be viewed by your spouse as an attempt to manipulate. He/she will perceive your change as a strategy on your part to get him/her to change. If your spouse felt "cornered" before, the feelings will be greater now. Your spouse will most likely resent these changes, even though these very behaviors is what he/she has been asking for for all the previous years. More distance will emerge.
" You will lose credibility. Your spouse will not believe you or will not know what to believe about you. In 80% of the affairs, my experience and analysis tells me that confusion reigns. Your spouse is very confused about what he/she wants. By faking or trying on changed behaviors, you are only adding to the confusion. The message you are sending is NOT CLEAR.
" You will lose respect. Bottom line: people don't want other people to try to please or placate them. They just don't respect that kind of strategy. There is no backbone. There is no core self from which you express yourself and take a firm stand. That is not very attractive.

Here's a common response I encounter: If you can change so easily now, why didn't you change when I wanted you to change back then? It's too late now. Some sadness or resentment may emerge as he/she encounters the new behavior, thinking about what could have been, but is no longer seen as possible.

4) Argue, Reason, Plead

You may believe that the more persistent you are in trying to get your spouse to "understand," the better off you may be. Not always true. Usually, the harder you try to get your point across, the deeper the wedge in the relationship.

An affair is not based on logic. One's quest to "find him/herself" through an affair has little to do with reason. The allure of the OP (other person), whatever that allure might be, has little respect for reason, logic and thinking and talking something through together. So you may attempt to reason with your partner about seeing the OP, where your partner goes, how he/she spends time, spending more time with the children, how to handle finances and pay the bills and other issues related to your life together or you lack of life together. The two of you swirl. It's as if you have been there, done that countless times before. You can predict what he/she will say, can predict your response to his/her response can, in turn, predict how he/she will respond to your response of his/her response. Sound familiar? You bang into a communication wall filled with the same old nasty feelings and thoughts you've encountered before. And you end in the same fashion, He/she walks away (which gives an "excuse" to run to the arms of someone else. Arguing, reasoning and pleading keeps the focal point on each other. It keeps the relationship bound together (we call it enmeshment) in a powerfully negative and destructive way. You merely continue to rehash the old stuff with the same fruitless outcome.

5) Get friends and family involved.

It is not uncommon to look for an ally. But, more than an ally, you may look for someone who will be your eyes and ears and perhaps mouthpiece. You may seek out an informant. You quiz others about what your spouse is saying and doing. You pump for information. You may look for signs of hope and hang intently on every word of your ally. Or, you might enlist a friend or family member to be your mouthpiece. You encourage them to talk to your spouse and hammer some 'sense" into this wayward creature. You give them all the information they need to be persuasive.

Unfortunately, many people seem to get off on this. There is an element of drama, suspense and mystery that hooks people into being what they think is helpful. They may be all too willing to join you in your drama. Getting friends and family involved only worsens your situation. Three people emotionally involved and invested in a relationship form a triangle. Ever watch soap operas? A soap opera is inherently two people talking about a third or two aligned and plotting against the third. There is a lot of juice stirred up but the relationships never reach the point of health (unless the triangle is broken). With such a triangle, you only perpetuate a bad situation. What is an affair? Basically, it's a triangle: two aligned against the outsider. Adding more triangles to the mix only increases the possibility for a more powerful explosion.

To break free from the affair, it is crucial that you and your spouse face one another and begin stating your own positions, your needs, your desires, your beliefs, the feelings you have about yourself, not the other person and each begin unraveling the story of your respective lives.

6) Act helpless, depressed.

Talk about unattractive. It takes a tremendous amount of energy for someone to be in relationship with a person who consistently acts helpless and depressed. People, over time, weary of being around such a person. Do you like being around a depressed person?

Here's the kicker though: Acting helpless and depressed can get mileage. Some people seek out depressing people because it gives them good feelings to take care of someone, or they get a feeling of being a little superior. In the meantime the depressed and helpless person gets a lot of attention and care.

The helpless or poor me syndrome is also a tool to control the other person. After all, you don't want to get too upset with a depressed person. They can't handle that, right? Or, worst case scenario, might they harm themselves, because they are so fragile? At some point the caretaker begins to pull away from the relationship and resolves not to be a part of that cycle. An affair might be the unconscious strategy (albeit, a not very bright strategy) to cope with one's inability to confront the depressed person with his/her true self. Acting depressed or helpless in the aftermath of an affair may be a longstanding pattern, only intensified at this point, in your relationship with your partner. It no longer works effectively, but you might turn up the volume a little louder, acting a more helpless and depressed, to make your point and get him/her back.

Question: If it does work and your partner comes back, is that the kind of relationship you want? Do you relish the idea of playing the victim/helpless role the rest of your life to control and maintain a relationship? Probably not. At least, I wouldn't want that for you. So you say you really are depressed? OK, fair enough. Some people do suffer from the clinical definition of depression as defined in the medical community. If you do, don't wait one more minute. Call your family doctor and ask for a referral to get some help. Assume responsibility for your illness.

Discover who you really are beneath the depression so you have a true self to offer to your spouse, or someone else. Doesn't that sound much better? I would think your partner would think so.

7) Give up opposite sex relationships.

If your partner is involved in an affair, you most likely have the tendency to shun people of the opposite sex. There are a number of reasons for this. First, you probably do not feel very attractive or desirable. As I've noted in other writings, being on the receiving end of an affair dumps self-esteem down the toilet. Even if you had an interest in pursuing a relationship, this would get in the way.

An interesting phenomenon I observe very frequently is that the spouse having the affair sends a subtle or not so subtle message that only he/she is allowed to have an extramarital relationship. It is his/her domain. If the offended partner begins a relationship with a person of the opposite sex the person having the affair may become jealous and disturbed, sometimes extremely so. Make sense? No, but then again, not much about affairs makes sense.

You may hold back from having an opposite sex relationship because you believe it will only give permission to your partner to continue the affair and provide further ammunition for him/her to truly leave. This does occur, but only in particular kinds of affairs and, I believe, only in a minority of situations. It will NOT be a major factor in his/her decision to truly end the marriage.

Holding back from developing an opposite sex relationship typically indicates you are doggedly determined to focus on what your partner and what he/she is doing or not doing. You are riveted on this painful elusive relationship. It occupies your every moment and breath. To think of having a life of your own seems terribly foreign. When I talk about having a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, I'm NOT talking about dating or sleeping around. Don't jump off the bridge. But, there is such a thing as a healthy relationship with those of different gender. Actually, it's fairly important to have those relationships without sexualizing them, or at least trusting yourself and the other person well enough to have a friendship that energizes.

You can learn a great deal. Your life will be enriched. You will have a life. And, it will be important to have this life in the future, with or without your partner present.

8 ) Get reassurance from your children.

Please don't intentionally involve your children. Here's what I mean.
"Don't share information with them about their other parent.
"Don't try to pry information from them about your spouse.
"Don't ask (in any way) for them to agree with you or side with you or comfort you.
"Don't talk about your spouse to them in any way shape or manner.

You can say directly: I'm having a difficult time right now, but I'm doing everything to take care of it and this too shall pass. I will always be here for you. Why? This is a difficult time emotionally for your children. They know what is going on, even if they don't know the details. They need a PARENT(S). Don't you become the child.

Remember my talk about triangles? What we have with your children is the potential for more triangles. Someone talking to someone about someone else only perpetuates your pain, creates pain for them, and lowers the possibility of resolving effectively your relationship with your spouse. As long as you are mired in triangles, you offer the opportunity for your spouse to perceive you as undesirable and therefore he/she continues the affair. As well you remain locked in your pain and merely lengthen the time and intensity of your misery. Go to other people (adults) for reassurance, comfort, guidance and a listening ear.

The ideal way to beat a triangle, you know, is to confront your spouse with your thoughts, your needs, set boundaries, declare yourself, take a stand and in essence, look at him/her eyeball-to-eyeball and say, I won't live like this. I'm making some shifts and changes. "I will make it, either with or without you. But, I guarantee you, I will make it".

9) Use the Bible or Dr Laura.

It is a natural impulse to want to beat your wandering spouse over the head, not literally, of course. Well, maybe" (Just kidding. Don't do it!) But, on a number of occasions I've run across those who throw Bible verses, selected passages from books or talk show hosts comments about the immorality and path of perdition he/she is following by engaging in an affair.

Now, granted, engaging in an affair is sin because it certainly does miss the mark in terms of having an authentic and truth-filled relationship and it certainly has dire consequences in which the other does walk down a difficult path. However, using this as a weapon to stop the affair brings dubious results at best. Think about it. Would you really want him/her to come back to the relationship because of coercion? What would that be like? He/she would be there because of moral compunction, not because they really wanted to be with you. Could you live in an relationship of emotional investment where someone was forced to be with you " out of guilt or trying to abide by some law? Don't you really want to be wanted? Have you ever heard the phrase, that which you resist, persists? This concept implies that the more you try to avoid something or work hard to change something, the more power you give it and the possibility for true change diminishes.

Beating him/her over the head with moral persuasion most likely will increase his/her resolve, if not openly at least internally, to oppose you. Poor strategy! Again, we return to a common theme: gathering moral ammunition and blasting away at the other person means you are focusing your energy on him/her. Your best bet is to turn that finger around and be kind, gentle, encouraging, supportive, directive, and caring to your self. Get your emotions and thinking under control. Plan your strategy for your survival, growth and moving ahead " without without him/her.

One more thing: Do you really want to be known as a morally superior person? Not most of us do. I'm not talking about becoming a morally inferior person, i.e. lowering your standards, by any means. I'm suggesting, don't go into the arena of morality or take a morally righteous position. It's booby trapped. You prolong your misery. You lessen hope for a reconciled marriage or workable future relationship with your spouse.

10) Suggest counseling.

OK, what's the deal. A therapist who is recommending that you NOT pursue counseling with your spouse? Yes, exactly. Believe me, I've seen hundreds of couples and counseling when an affair is involved, seldom, and I mean really seldom works. In most communities, getting counseling is the thing to do when there are marital problems. Family, friends, clergy and others say, "Have you gotten counseling?" Many spouses agree to attend. It usually lasts for a few sessions, if that. He/she often enters counseling guardedly and with little intent to self disclose. He/she usually in some fashion sabotages counseling. It doesn't work. Here's the kicker: the person is then able to say, "Well, we got counseling, and it just didn't work out!" Counseling becomes a rationalization to pull further away. Suggesting counseling, because it is socially sanctioned by your community, is perceived by your spouse as coercion. Again, persuasion or coercion usually gets the results you don't intend and shifts the focus away from where it needs to be " your self care and your ability to take a firm, non-reactive stand and move ahead with your life, with our without him/her.

So you want to get your spouse into counseling? Here's your strategy: Say, "I want you to know that I'm getting counseling. There are some changes I want to make for my self. You are basically right, our relationship hasn't been that cool for me either. I want to learn why I attract the kind of people I do. I want to prepare for my future. I'm going to make it!" Depending on the kind of affair that confronts you, this is your best chance for the two of you to resolve the relationship, with counseling being a helpful tool.

11) Tell him/her we need to work on the relationship.

This usually means you want to go back to the way the marriage used to be. You remember the good times and your intent is to recapture them. Or you believe that the two of you, focusing on each other with more purpose, can change the flow of the relationship. To do that, you believe you need to try. This often means spending more time together, dating, being more attentive to each other, reading self help books together, buying each other gifts and in general, revisiting the courting stage of the relationship. This usually is very uncomfortable. One is the pursuer and the other hedges, forgets or distances. There are constant thoughts of the OP (other person) by both parties. The comparison game is played internally, but never talked about openly. The stress and strain oozes beneath the surface. The spouse involved with the other person may concede to trying, since it serves basically the same purpose as counseling. He/she can at some point say, 'see, we tried and it just didn't work." It may ease the guilt or give internal permission to pursue with more vigor the other person.

Trying does not get at the truth. Trying is a band aid that fails to alter the underlying dynamics of the marriage or the individuals. Trying to change the relationship is again, other focused, and this only leads to a deeper sense of being stuck. Don't work on the relationship. Here's my mantra again: Work on you. No, you don't even have to work on you. Be you! If you don't know who you are, find out and then be you. It really is ok. And, it really isn't that difficult. At least it's much easier than trying to change another person or a relationship.

One more thing. When you are you and stop trying to change someone or something else, that someone or something else of investment cannot not change. Think about it!

12) Let yourself go to pot.

It is very easy when confronted with a trauma that rocks us to our soul to go back to that which is ugly, negative and ultimately self-defeating. We revert to the negative thoughts about ourself. We revert to those old negative feelings that rip at our emotions and sometimes tear at our body. We revert to those old ways of behaving that get us where we don't want to go. We go back to what I call our "familiar position."

Allowing yourself to go to pot (and I know some who literally go there or find some other substance to ingest that numbs) takes a tremendous amount of energy. It takes more than facing head on what you need to face. You continue on a downward spiral whereby each negative thought, word and action builds on the other and accumulates. A cloud of negativity hinders you from taking the action you need to take to see your way through. You become stuck. Of course, you understand, that when you go down that road, you become exceedingly unattractive. You are exceedingly unattractive. This only reinforces the negative self thoughts swirling in your mind. To think of yourself as desirable seems a long ways off. When in your "familiar position" you will resort to typical behaviors you use to get what you think you want. basically, you will either withdraw or attack. Neither will serve you well.

OK, so what do you do? Well, it is impossible to totally avoid your negative feelings and thoughts, so don't try. It is also impossible to force yourself onto a different path. (That might last for a while, but the negativity will catch up to you). There are a couple powerful strategies. First, just notice when you go where you typically go. Don't judge. Just notice. Allow the negativity to be there for a while. Observe it. Learn from it. Be aware of how you are trying to protect yourself or how you actually are trying to get what is important for you. Be gracious to yourself. Accept the fact that you are sometimes where you don't want to be. Be kind to yourself. Look beneath. Look deeper. Look within. It will be well worth it. And, others will notice. They will see the change, and it will be attractive.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Russ

If you are truly feeling suicidal you need to seek counseling immediately. You may have done things in the past that hurt the marriage here but she is the one who went outside the marriage vows. She is the one who has dealt the death blow to the marriage, not you. Things must be spinning for you now but it will get easier with time. Remember your son and your love for him. Harming yourself will harm him and guarantee he is raised by another man. Take hold of yourself, get help and be there for him. Down the road you will be so happy you did. Take care.


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## juls (Apr 1, 2008)

> You may not have been a good husband but etch this into your consciousness There is no excuse to cheat on a spouse. None,



This type of black and white thinking is exactly what is wrong with the world...:scratchhead:


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

> You may not have been a good husband but etch this into your consciousness There is no excuse to cheat on a spouse. None,





> This type of black and white thinking is exactly what is wrong with the world...


This is exactly how I feel. Cheating is wrong, you know it is wrong. It is manipulation, control and a total disrespect for your partner.

draconis


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## CantThinkOfAJUserName (Apr 11, 2008)

juls said:


> > Quote:
> > You may not have been a good husband but etch this into your consciousness There is no excuse to cheat on a spouse. None,
> 
> 
> This type of black and white thinking is exactly what is wrong with the world...:scratchhead:


I beg to differ for it is the lack of it that shows what is truly wrong with the world.

Just like there will never be an excuse for being a neglectful, cruel, disrespectful or abusive spouse, there will never be an excuse for being unfaithful to one's spouse.


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## CantThinkOfAJUserName (Apr 11, 2008)

mommy22 said:


> I completely agree with you as long as we are careful to HATE the sin but NOT HATE the sinner. I think we can practice forgiveness without condoning wrongdoings. It's a corrupt world we live in. It's very scary raising children in it. When mine become adults, I plan on sitting them down and sharing our mistakes with them. I want them to realize just how easy it is to become "worldly" and they are to be ever mindful of it. We have to stay on guard to protect ourselves and our families.


Excellent points and it goes to show that despite a person's black and white view of the world, mercy and forgiveness can be a part of her/his life.


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## Russell (Apr 10, 2008)

Okay... I know many of you have been wanting an update. 

Well, I've decided to go back into the Army. With or without her. She has since seen things won't work out with him, and that I am grateful for. However... if she's still with me only for the sake of our son, then its the wrong reason. It should be because she wants to be with me, and no other reason. 

I can't get into specifics at the moment, but she is looking forward to our immediate future. I guess thats a good start. To be honest, so am I. I mean, I'm retiring in 12 years... if I live that long. We're at war at the moment, so its kinda hard to be completely optimistic here. But, my Jane is worth dieing for, and so is my Tommy Two Tone.

I am the luckiest man alive to have her near my side. And it was my fault she had strayed tobegin with. I have forgiven her, I just hope she forgives herself. We're working on the trust issues after her affair though. She has been picking Homewrecker up for work every day. Up until this week, also taking him home. His car wasn't inspected. Forgive me for not being sympathetic to his excuse for spending time with my wife. The messed up part is his boss can pick him mup and take him home, and lives only 3 miles from him, whereas my wife lives 24 miles from him. Kinda more 8 up then 9.... its still a work in progress. However I am about to take a stand on that too. If she wants me, fine, then she wants me. She must eliminate all contact with him in order for me to trust her. She has absolutely no clue what she is doing to me when she tells me she is with him. I want to just go after him and beat his lilly rear into the ground profusely. I hate him. 

Enough about Homerwrecker... more about Jane and I.

Recently we've both begun our healling processes. Her, trying to trust me, and myself... the same with her. I really can't with him anywhere near her though. Noone can give me any benefit of the doubt crap either... its him or me. And to be honest, she says its me... but I can't believe that when he's in her car every day any reason at all. His car isn't inspected... and he has no ride to and from work. Like I honestly care? All I see is he's in her car every day. If she wants me... then she would be saying to him "Sorry, but thats the way he wants it. I really screwed up here, and I know he did too, but the only way we made it this far in our marriage was a lot of hard work and compromise." And to be honest, that is the truth.

Well hey guys... thanks for the offers of companionship through this, you've all made some respect here. And Mom... where were you sixteen years ago? ;op 

Thank you.


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## believer (Apr 22, 2008)

This has got to be an incredibly tough time for you & add staying sober into the mix has got to be tough. But sounds like you are pulling yourself together & picking yourself up from a very devestating situation. 
I don't think you are being unreasonable by making her choose either him or you. When you married it was to only be "you" - so if she wants to stay in this marriage - she has NO choice but to say "bye-bye" to the other guy. 
Like you mentioned - you don't care about his car situation & neither should she. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason she should be having daily contact with him to drive him - especially knowing how much it is hurting you. The car situatio is no one's problem but the other guys. 
Keep choosing things that feel right for you - you need to take care of yourself & look out for yourself. 
Good luck at you head back to the army - that is something very brave to be doing. Best wishes


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## believer (Apr 22, 2008)

CantThinkOfAJUserName said:


> Russell,
> 
> 
> 11) Tell him/her we need to work on the relationship.
> ...


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## CantThinkOfAJUserName (Apr 11, 2008)

Russell,

If you have read any books on infidelity, most of the so-called experts say that people in affairs behave very much like drug addicts and alcoholics. And just like the treatment for those folks addicted to drugs and alcohol, the only way the cheater will break the addiction for the OP [other person] is to go NC [no contact] forever. You may want to ask your wife to reflect on her present behavior and ask herself if she isn't acting like a drug addict or an alcoholic, like you did when you were using alcohol as a crutch.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Russell,

Thanks for sharing the update of your situation. I was worried about you. I totally agree with you--you cannot give her the benefit of the doubt because she has broken your trust with this guy...I hope you are able to put your foot down and she stops taxiing him around. He is disrespecting you by having the nerve to accept favors from your wife at this point. I don't blame you at all for feeling anger towards him, but you are right, that won't solve anything. For your own sanity, your wife needs to tell him out of respect for your marriage, she can no longer have any sort of contact with him (outside of professional work related conversation if that's still necessary) Any friendship at this point is inappropriate because they already crossed a line. That's the price they both need to pay for crossing that line. You have been hurt enough already. My husband still works with the woman he cheated on me with and she still sticks her head in his office to say hi or borrow a diet coke and it really disturbs me that she has no respect for me or our marriage...but I guess to pursue a married man to begin with, I shouldn't expect much from her.


Russell said:


> Well, I've decided to go back into the Army.


Thank you in advance for serving our country. It's certainly not a decision you can take lightly, and you have my respect for doing so.


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