# Being Accused of abuse



## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

This is about Covert abuse/Narcissism.

So my wife and I have been together for 10 years. Married for almost 5. We have gone through a lot, good and bad together. We recently got back together after being separated for a little while. The other night we went out to eat. Had a good time. My wife picked the restaurant, the food was good, overall good night, so I thought. So I thought we might watch a movie or tv show. I took our dog out to the bathroom. I come back in and change clothes and sit on the couch. We keep our bedroom door closed as we just recently rescued our dog and are slowly introducing her to our cat. So my wife goes in and changes clothes, then comes out. We had a conversation about something, but it was a normal everyday conversation. She grabs a movie then goes in the room. I didn't really think anything of it because its that time of the month so I figured she wanted to lay in bed. So I'm on the couch watching tv with our dog. I dose off for a little bit then wake up to my wife getting into the shower. It was somewhat late, so I took our dog out to the bathroom before going into the room for the night. I go into the bathroom to check on my wife and she's sitting in the shower, which is something that's common. But I could tell something was off. I asked her what's wrong and she replied with "oh now you care". At this point I have no idea what's wrong. So I try asking again and she doesn't want to talk. I go and sit on the bed. A few minutes later she comes out and starts saying that she's done with my abuse and I'm not going to abuse her anymore. That I abused her for the 10 years we've been together. I have never touched my wife, and I don't verbally abuse her either. I was upset that she would claim this especially after we had a good night. I asked her why she would say this and she told me that she read about Covert Abuse/Narcissism online and that I have every trait on there. And that I have abused her these last 10 years. So I what kind of examples lead her to believe this. She said I sleep on the couch to manipulate her and control her. I have fallen asleep on the couch a few times, but its because I work a production labor job and I'm on my feet all night. I usually don't get off until 5am. Sometimes its hard for to go right to sleep so Ill shower, eat and maybe watch tv, or play a game to calm down. Then I go to bed. The majority of the time I sleep in bed. I have explained this to her before. I even asked coworkers if they struggled to sleep sometimes. And most if not all have said they have had nights like that. I asked her for the link of where she read all of this information. I started doing research and found that a couple of the traits matched but not all. I even took a test to see if maybe she was right. I want to respect her feelings. But after reading and doing research and thinking back to situations throughout our marriage I found that she fits the category of a Covert Abuser. Also all of the information I found said that everyone could fit traits, but it doesn't mean that they are Narcissistic or abusive. I'm lost right now as my wife has taken ahold of this and believes it all to be true. I have scheduled a counseling session. She didn't take that well and said that she doesn't need some Stanger telling her whether or not she's been abused. Any input is appreciated.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

Thanks to the internet people seem to think they can diagnose other people. Narcissism seems to be the current popular thing right now. You could probably just as easily diagnose her with BPD.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

Everyone by the way displays some narcissistic traits from time to time.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

Yes it does seem the internet has allowed that to happen. And its crazy you mentioned BPD, because she would try and tell me that I was bipolar. Its hard for me because she wanted to be a counselor/psychiatrist. So she has the mentality that she can tell people what they are or how they are feeling.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@Uptown

Your wife is projecting her issues onto you. 

Uptown will be along soon and can break down the spectrum philosophy in a much more eloquent manner than I.

Suffice to say that you should take your wife's armchair diagnosis with a liberal grain of salt.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

thatguy88 said:


> All of the information I found said that everyone could fit traits, but it doesn't mean that they are Narcissistic or abusive.


ThatGuy, yes, you are correct. A personality disorder like NPD (Narcissistic PD) or BPD (Borderline PD) is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all NPD and BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). 

These behavioral traits generally are ego defenses that, at low levels, are essential to our survival. They typically become a problem only when they are strong and persistent. As *Stang* correctly states, _"Everyone... displays some narcissistic traits from time to time."_ At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits NPD or BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the NPD or BPD spectrums). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong NPD or BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse, lack of empathy, controlling actions, and temper tantrums.



Stang197 said:


> Thanks to the internet people seem to think they can diagnose other people.


Yes, Stang, many laymen confuse _spotting symptoms_ (i.e., warning signs) with _making a diagnosis_. Hence, discussing BPD behavioral symptoms is not an attempt to diagnose the underlying disorder -- i.e., not in the way the term "diagnose" is used in every medical field. 

Importantly, you don't go to a medical doctor to be told what symptoms you have. Instead, YOU tell the doctor all about your symptoms. Similarly, when you go to an auto repair shop, you don't go to be told about your car's symptoms. Rather, YOU tell the repairman what problems the car is exhibiting and he diagnoses the situation to tell you what is causing those symptoms to occur. 

Hence, whereas _diagnosing a cause_ is the province of professionals, _describing and identifying symptoms_ is the province of laymen (i.e., the client seeking help). This is why, when you go to the doctor, the very first thing he will ask you is what symptoms you've been seeing, how strong they are, and how long they have been occurring. And this is why, when a patient is unable to identify disease symptoms, that disease is said to be _"asymptomatic,"_ i.e., _"without symptoms."_ By definition, then, symptoms are traits that laymen are able to spot -- without trying to diagnose anything. 

Because psychologists are unable to actually diagnose the underlying cause of these personality disorders, they are forced to rely on a severe occurrence of the behavioral symptoms to infer the existence of some underlying (but unproven) disorder. They ASSUME that, when symptoms are sufficiently severe, some type of (unidentified) disorder must exist. Only a professional, then, can determine whether the strong BPD or NPD behaviors you see are sufficiently severe and persistent as to be called full-blown BPD or NPD. 

Of course, you lack the professional training necessary to declare such behaviors "full blown." This does not imply, however, that you are unable to spot moderate to strong occurrences of these behaviors. On the contrary, you likely were able to spot behaviors such as temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and irrational jealousy by the time you entered high school.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If you are abusing her, you should leave. If you are not abusing her and she is accusing you of doing so, you should leave.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think the term "abuse" is overused in our "everyone is a victim" society. 

More likely her feelings are hurt for some reason, maybe a reason even she is not aware of, and she is handing over her power to you and expecting you to magically fix it. And then she gets mad when you do not immediately do so.

The counseling session is a good idea. Please let us know how it goes.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

thatguy88 said:


> This is about Covert abuse/Narcissism.
> 
> So my wife and I have been together for 10 years. Married for almost 5. We have gone through a lot, good and bad together. We recently got back together after being separated for a little while. The other night we went out to eat. Had a good time. My wife picked the restaurant, the food was good, overall good night, so I thought. So I thought we might watch a movie or tv show. I took our dog out to the bathroom. I come back in and change clothes and sit on the couch. We keep our bedroom door closed as we just recently rescued our dog and are slowly introducing her to our cat. So my wife goes in and changes clothes, then comes out. We had a conversation about something, but it was a normal everyday conversation. She grabs a movie then goes in the room. I didn't really think anything of it because its that time of the month so I figured she wanted to lay in bed. So I'm on the couch watching tv with our dog. I dose off for a little bit then wake up to my wife getting into the shower. It was somewhat late, so I took our dog out to the bathroom before going into the room for the night. I go into the bathroom to check on my wife and she's sitting in the shower, which is something that's common. But I could tell something was off. I asked her what's wrong and she replied with "oh now you care". At this point I have no idea what's wrong. So I try asking again and she doesn't want to talk. I go and sit on the bed. A few minutes later she comes out and starts saying that she's done with my abuse and I'm not going to abuse her anymore. That I abused her for the 10 years we've been together. I have never touched my wife, and I don't verbally abuse her either. I was upset that she would claim this especially after we had a good night. I asked her why she would say this and she told me that she read about Covert Abuse/Narcissism online and that I have every trait on there. And that I have abused her these last 10 years. So I what kind of examples lead her to believe this. She said I sleep on the couch to manipulate her and control her. I have fallen asleep on the couch a few times, but its because I work a production labor job and I'm on my feet all night. I usually don't get off until 5am. Sometimes its hard for to go right to sleep so Ill shower, eat and maybe watch tv, or play a game to calm down. Then I go to bed. The majority of the time I sleep in bed. I have explained this to her before. I even asked coworkers if they struggled to sleep sometimes. And most if not all have said they have had nights like that. I asked her for the link of where she read all of this information. I started doing research and found that a couple of the traits matched but not all. I even took a test to see if maybe she was right. I want to respect her feelings. But after reading and doing research and thinking back to situations throughout our marriage I found that she fits the category of a Covert Abuser. Also all of the information I found said that everyone could fit traits, but it doesn't mean that they are Narcissistic or abusive. I'm lost right now as my wife has taken ahold of this and believes it all to be true. I have scheduled a counseling session. She didn't take that well and said that *she doesn't need some Stanger telling her whether or not she's been abused*. Any input is appreciated.


So the author of the internet article is a close personal friend? Fascinating.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

There is not enough information here. Maybe you have narcissistic tendencies. My husband for sure have narcissistic/passive aggressive tendencies too and I do consider him emotionally abusive.

As for her. She shouldn't be focused on being the victim of abuse but rather what she is going to do about it. If she wants to leave she should leave. If she wants to work on the marriage she should stay and go to therapy. The point is therapy is to help your marriage, not to validate her.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

And by the way my husband use to sleep on the couch as a way to punish me. And he would use the excuse I just fell asleep, or work was crazy. But it always happened when I questioned how bad behavior or whatever.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Naw, fascinating is taking one sentence out of a confused man's comment and making it appear he's the one with a problem.

Anyway, how's your actual relationship?
Do you have any kids?
You did imply, you aren't sure what she said do you often push aside what she says?
How much do you game?
I will say, the whole "it's that time of the month" comment was one of those "hmm" moments for me which led to me asking the third question.

I feel you on the night shift, it is rough no matter how long you do it. I had the exact same problems, no matter how tired I was when I came home.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

What other traits do you have that match up? Can you admit when your wrong? Do you apologize adequately? Do you take responsibility for your actions? Do you place blame?

Where you separated before for similar issues?
I agree with the above poster that saying it's her time is the month is something that stood out. Saying that disregards her feelings. 

Go to therapy to help your marriage. Not to prove her wrong. The point is not to see if your abusing her or not. It's to help gain some insight on why she feels that way and what you can do better so she doesn't.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Jld nailed it. Your wife wanted or needed something from you but did not communicate it to you. Rather than accept that she HAS to communicate it to you, she gets mad at you, under the premise that you SHOULD know what she did not communicate to you after all these years.

Her refusal to go to counseling with you is based on her knowledge that you haven't really done anything wrong. 

Tell her that she will either drop the abuse allegations and start working with you to improve your communication, or you will end up leaving her. 

Yell her that you are fully willing to work with her to improve your relationship, but you will not accept her labels. 

She is using it to control you. Don't accept it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

One other question, why did you separate?


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Emotional abuse can be highly subjective, and accusations of such do more to inflame and escalate an argument than to resolve whatever problem is at hand. 

OP, ignore your wife's accusation of abuse, as this doesn't seem matched by your intentions. 

OP, do not ignore your wife; her accusations of abuse proxy some problem that is real and needs to be addressed. 

Part of this problem is poor communication; me thinks your wife can do better here. Unless, that is, she doesn't even want you to meet any particular expectations. When things sour in relationships, sometimes people check out emotionally and start looking for reasons of why things won't work. It could be that your wife's behavior is proving her own hypothesis, where regardless of what you do, she'll validate herself. Don't know if this is the case here, but just putting this idea out there.

My advice: get some professional help (individual + couples counseling) as you come back from a separation, in order to try improving communication and conflict resolution in your marriage.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

As previously mentioned, I to think she's trying to use anything she can grab onto to try to control you. Her behavior isn't doing anything toward making your marriage better. I would advise against counseling because she will bring up she thinks there's abuse and because there isn't it would end up being largely unproductive. Go to her and ask how she thinks you are abusing her and that you need to know this so you can stop.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

As'laDain said:


> Tell her that she will either drop the abuse allegations and start working with you to improve your communication, or you will end up leaving her.
> 
> Yell her that you are fully willing to work with her to improve your relationship, but you will not accept her labels.


QFT. From my experience, there is no going back after being accused of being abusive. 

If she sees you as being abusive, something really big has to change for her to no longer have that view. Imho, this is not a small accusation she has made, especially given the way she did it. What I mean is she didn't hurl it out in the middle of a quick paced argument as something she grabbed onto without thinking about it. Had she done that it would still be a serious thing to say which could portend the end of the relationship. But she obviously deeply believes you are an abusive person.

Does she have any trauma history? Child sex abuse, sexual assault, a very overbearing parent, a parent who had substance abuse problems, etc? Did she experience or observe when she was a child an adult who was abusive? If so, she could have a template that adult males are by nature abusive creatures. If this is the case, she will always believe you to be an abusive person even if she recants her recent accusation.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

My ex-wife was a disturbed person. I do not know the actual label that fits. However, she used to accuse me of wrecking her clothes, then all of her possessions too. Weird. She would ritualistically inspect all of her clothes for any sign of wear or damage and then rage at me for being a sick bastard for damaging her clothes.

I, of course, was not doing a damned thing to her stuff. She would even lock stuff in an armoir. Come home from work and look at every item. if a thread was loose, a moth ate a hole, anything really, she would go off about it.

We definitely brought it all up in marriage counseling. I told her to take her clothes to any expert that she wanted to and I'd undergo a lie detector test--anything. Just to put it to rest, you know?

The MC was pretty useless, but she did have a point, bring the clothes into her with or without me present, and they'll look at it.

My wife's response? She threw out all the clothes or items she said were damaged and told the MC that I was too clever, and would make it look like she was crazy, so she was not going to play into "my game."

I think at that point the MC realized the issues were far more difficult to deal with than her pay grade. 

My ex was still cheating that point too, but lying about it.

My point to you, sorry about wandering in the weeds a bit, is that when you are accused of something outlandish, it is a desperate attempt to shift focus away from crappy behavior.

Don't fall for it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

thatguy88 said:


> This is about Covert abuse/Narcissism.
> 
> So my wife and I have been together for 10 years. Married for almost 5. We have gone through a lot, good and bad together. We recently got back together after being separated for a little while. The other night we went out to eat. Had a good time. My wife picked the restaurant, the food was good, overall good night, so I thought. So I thought we might watch a movie or tv show. I took our dog out to the bathroom. I come back in and change clothes and sit on the couch. We keep our bedroom door closed as we just recently rescued our dog and are slowly introducing her to our cat. So my wife goes in and changes clothes, then comes out. We had a conversation about something, but it was a normal everyday conversation. She grabs a movie then goes in the room. I didn't really think anything of it *because its that time of the month* so I figured she wanted to lay in bed. So I'm on the couch watching tv with our dog. I dose off for a little bit then wake up to my wife getting into the shower. It was somewhat late, so I took our dog out to the bathroom before going into the room for the night. I go into the bathroom to check on my wife and she's sitting in the shower, which is something that's common. But I could tell something was off. I asked her what's wrong and she replied with "oh now you care". At this point I have no idea what's wrong. So I try asking again and she doesn't want to talk. I go and sit on the bed. A few minutes later she comes out and starts saying that she's done with my abuse and I'm not going to abuse her anymore. That I abused her for the 10 years we've been together. I have never touched my wife, and I don't verbally abuse her either. I was upset that she would claim this especially after we had a good night. I asked her why she would say this and she told me that she read about Covert Abuse/Narcissism online and that I have every trait on there. And that I have abused her these last 10 years. So I what kind of examples lead her to believe this. She said I sleep on the couch to manipulate her and control her. I have fallen asleep on the couch a few times, but its because I work a production labor job and I'm on my feet all night. I usually don't get off until 5am. Sometimes its hard for to go right to sleep so Ill shower, eat and maybe watch tv, or play a game to calm down. Then I go to bed. The majority of the time I sleep in bed. I have explained this to her before. I even asked coworkers if they struggled to sleep sometimes. And most if not all have said they have had nights like that. I asked her for the link of where she read all of this information. I started doing research and found that a couple of the traits matched but not all. I even took a test to see if maybe she was right. I want to respect her feelings. But after reading and doing research and thinking back to situations throughout our marriage I found that she fits the category of a Covert Abuser. Also all of the information I found said that everyone could fit traits, but it doesn't mean that they are Narcissistic or abusive. I'm lost right now as my wife has taken ahold of this and believes it all to be true. I have scheduled a counseling session. She didn't take that well and said that she doesn't need some Stanger telling her whether or not she's been abused. Any input is appreciated.


From your entire post what I highlighted above jumped out at me. Most months when it's that time of the month my W will say some of the strangest things. Sometimes accusatory of things I have done. These things are not true.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thatguy88 said:


> she told me that she read about Covert Abuse/Narcissism online and that I have every trait on there.
> 
> I found that she fits the category of a Covert Abuser.
> 
> I have scheduled a counseling session. She didn't take that well and said that she doesn't need some stranger telling her whether or not she's been abused. Any input is appreciated.


Have you checked her phone records to see if she's contacting one particular number a lot? 

Go to the counseling with or without her. That way, when she tries to use this again, you just say "_I_ went to the therapy session to fix whatever's wrong. Where were YOU?"


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

NoChoice said:


> So the author of the internet article is a close personal friend? Fascinating.


Yeah that was my point to her also.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> And by the way my husband use to sleep on the couch as a way to punish me. And he would use the excuse I just fell asleep, or work was crazy. But it always happened when I questioned how bad behavior or whatever.



I never use sleeping on the couch as punishment. I truly do work night/early morning hours. Its a labor job so I'm on my feet anywhere from 10 to 14 hours a night. So sometimes I do fall asleep on the couch. Never or purpose or with the thought of making her feel unloved or anything like that. I'm sorry that you have experienced this in a negative way.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Naw, fascinating is taking one sentence out of a confused man's comment and making it appear he's the one with a problem.
> 
> Anyway, how's your actual relationship?
> Do you have any kids?
> ...



Our actual relationship is normal. We've gone through typical married couple issues. I don't push aside what she says, I try to listen and understand what she's saying. I honestly don't game that much anymore. But when I did game usually it would be on a day off, or if we didn't have anything planned. Yeah I think the time of the month thing could have been apart of it. Its that time now and she actual just got her period and she's calmed down a little bit but she's still holding a grudge. I can feel and see it.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> What other traits do you have that match up? Can you admit when your wrong? Do you apologize adequately? Do you take responsibility for your actions? Do you place blame?
> 
> Where you separated before for similar issues?
> I agree with the above poster that saying it's her time is the month is something that stood out. Saying that disregards her feelings.
> ...


The main trait was paying more attention to her. Mainly not trying to multitask and do other things and talk to her. The other one was about being able to apologize. That one is hard because here's the issue. When we have arguments or disagreements, she always gets her feelings or points across and wants an apology. Nothing wrong with that. But if I try to tell my feelings about the same situation she accuses me of passing blame or not wanting to apologize. Our whole relationship its been that way. I thought to fix problems, you listen to what each other has to say then try to come to a solution afterwards. But I never get the chance to talk. She gets so focused on how she feels, or what she wants. I've tried to explain this to her, but then sometimes she'll sarcastically say that she's sorry for whatever it is she did.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> One other question, why did you separate?


Basically everything I posted about and her being unfaithful. She used Facebook to make people think I was treating her badly and her and her mom would post quotes or memes directed at me on Facebook. I found out she was talking to a guy for 6 months while we were still together. She brought him into the middle of our marriage and told him I hit her. Which it wasn't true. I've never laid a finger on my wife. She told me she wanted a divorce but held it over my held for months. I couldn't even attempt to move on because she would play games with me.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

I appreciate all the feedback. I tried to answer all the questions you guys asked. I remember she would tell me stories of what her ex before me did to her. There were plenty of times I had to tell her that she was doing to me what she said he would do to her. What's crazy about this is that she held the divorce over my head. I would ask her what are we doing. She moved in with the guy she was talking to behind my back. She even tried to tell me all the ways he was better than me. The irony is that this guy was the one who ended up being abusive. They had a falling out and agreed to live as roommates. That's when he started trying to tell her when to be home, what to do, tell her she can basically only talk to him, he called her names. She called me one night almost crying. Saying she was scared that he was going to physically hurt her because of how he would talk to her. She even told him I never treated or said things like he was saying to her. So I had to get involved to get him to move out. Even then my wife said she wasn't sure she wanted to work things out. But then she said she wanted to fix our marriage. And now she claims she kicked this guy out to get back with me and that's not true at all. He was actually verbally abusing her. Even some of her male coworkers wanted to kick the crap out of this guy. For me its frustrating because she's telling people I never treated her like that, then out of nowhere, now she says I abused her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Why do you even consider staying with this woman? She's got a screw loose. Nothing is going to get better with her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thatguy88 said:


> When we have arguments or disagreements, she always gets her feelings or points across and wants an apology. Nothing wrong with that. But if I try to tell my feelings about the same situation she accuses me of passing blame or not wanting to apologize. Our whole relationship its been that way. I thought to fix problems, you listen to what each other has to say then try to come to a solution afterwards. But I never get the chance to talk. She gets so focused on how she feels, or what she wants. I've tried to explain this to her, but then sometimes she'll sarcastically say that she's sorry for whatever it is she did.


I don't think it's that she gets focused on how she feels; it's that she's been programmed since childhood, for whatever reason, to never show weakness, or to feel shame if she's caught being wrong, or some such. Would be a good thing to figure out in therapy together. 

That said, this is an excellent place to start deviating from your traditional marriage, IF you stay married. The next time she wants an apology from you, simply say something like "You know, in our X years together, I've apologized Y times, because I feel it's the right thing to do to reach a conciliation. But I've noticed that you never do the same for me. So I think I'm gonna wait this time and see if we can't talk this out and figure out why that is. Because a marriage is supposed to be a meeting of equals, and I'm starting to feel you don't want it to BE a meeting of equals." And then see what she does.

She'll likely punish you for it. Because she doesn't want to be vulnerable, or she has to be right, or whatever. But it's an important thing to distinguish and to bring to the light of day, if you want to continue to have a healthy marriage.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

thatguy88 said:


> Basically everything I posted about and her being unfaithful. She used Facebook to make people think I was treating her badly and her and her mom would post quotes or memes directed at me on Facebook. I found out she was talking to a guy for 6 months while we were still together. She brought him into the middle of our marriage and told him I hit her. Which it wasn't true. I've never laid a finger on my wife. She told me she wanted a divorce but held it over my held for months. I couldn't even attempt to move on because she would play games with me.


Both your W and her mother? Using FB like children? You stay with this individual for what reason?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks. What does she offer for you to stay? No, I am serious. She bad mouthed you, her mother joined in, she did it on social media, emasculated you using another man, had an affair, moved in with said guy, wanted to come back after she was being abused and then has the GALL to say you are a covert narcissist. Go get individual counseling and figure out why YOU are willing to take this level of abuse. Yes, contrary to some belief, men can be emotionally, verbally and physically abused. Abuse isn't just about the level of pain, which is where people make the mistake concerning men, it is about destroying someone mentally and emotionally to do your bidding. In other words, control.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

Thor said:


> QFT. From my experience, there is no going back after being accused of being abusive.
> 
> If she sees you as being abusive, something really big has to change for her to no longer have that view. Imho, this is not a small accusation she has made, especially given the way she did it. What I mean is she didn't hurl it out in the middle of a quick paced argument as something she grabbed onto without thinking about it. Had she done that it would still be a serious thing to say which could portend the end of the relationship. But she obviously deeply believes you are an abusive person.
> 
> Does she have any trauma history? Child sex abuse, sexual assault, a very overbearing parent, a parent who had substance abuse problems, etc? Did she experience or observe when she was a child an adult who was abusive? If so, she could have a template that adult males are by nature abusive creatures. If this is the case, she will always believe you to be an abusive person even if she recants her recent accusation.


Yes she does. It starts with her family. She has strained relationships with almost everyone. She had a bad childhood. Her Mom and her Dad's marriage failed. She told me stories about how her dad had threatened her with his gun when she was younger. Also her ex before me sexual abused her. He should be in Prison as he was 23 and she was 15 at the time. Her mom knew about it but did nothing. She was actually on the run from some things she did in her own personal life. I guess she came to my wife one day and said she was leaving and that she would possible never see her again unless she came with her. So my wife chose to go with her mom because of her history with her dad. And her Mom met some guy through some traveling sales company they got involved in. That's also how my wife met her ex. I guess he would threaten to turn them in if she wouldn't agree to do things with him. So the history is there. She was in counseling before I met her. Stopped going after her dad said he wasn't going to pay for it anymore. Early on in our relationship I had to talk to her about how she treated me. She would talk to me and treat me like her ex did to her.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Thanks. What does she offer for you to stay? No, I am serious. She bad mouthed you, her mother joined in, she did it on social media, emasculated you using another man, had an affair, moved in with said guy, wanted to come back after she was being abused and then has the GALL to say you are a covert narcissist. Go get individual counseling and figure out why YOU are willing to take this level of abuse. Yes, contrary to some belief, men can be emotionally, verbally and physically abused. Abuse isn't just about the level of pain, which is where people make the mistake concerning men, it is about destroying someone mentally and emotionally to do your bidding. In other words, control.


At this point nothing. I'm starting to realize that I changed after what her and her mom had been doing to me back when we were first together. Even my dad and friends said they worried about me. That I seem different. Personally I'm more of a private person and I don't usually put my business out there but I've felt kind of lost for awhile. I had a conversation with my dad and just started remembering things I went through and I actually broke down and cried after I realized what was going on.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

thatguy88 said:


> Early on in our relationship I had to talk to her about how she treated me. She would talk to me and treat me like her ex did to her.


Ok, two things there to comment on. First, people repeat what they learned when young. So she is abusive to you because that is what she observed and experienced. But, she also believes men are abusive by nature. She experienced adult males who were abusive, and so as a child this was imprinted on her brain as a fact. Imo and my experience with my ex-W, when that belief system is wired into their brain it is exceedingly difficult to change it.

Which boils down to she is extremely unlikely to change her view of you as being an abuser. To me, this is an immediate deal breaker in a relationship. When that accusation is made, there is no going back.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

Thor said:


> thatguy88 said:
> 
> 
> > Early on in our relationship I had to talk to her about how she treated me. She would talk to me and treat me like her ex did to her.
> ...


Yeah theres no going back. I see that now. She saw i was on here trying to get advice and information and she completely freaked out on me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

thatguy88 said:


> Yeah theres no going back. I see that now. She saw i was on here trying to get advice and information and she completely freaked out on me.


My ex freaked out when she saw I'd bought a book about being married to a child sex abuse victim after she finally told me of her abuse. When someone is deeply damaged they try to hide it. When there is a threat of exposure they freak out. My wife refused MC years ago, way before I knew of her CSA, which is also common. She feared the CSA would be exposed.

It is a psychological defense mechanism they learned young, to keep the information hidden. On some level your wife knows she has dysfunctional behaviors and thought processes, and so she doesn't want those revealed. She doesn't want you to learn that it isn't _all your fault_, and she doesn't want you to establish better boundaries.

Expect more freak outs and accusations.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

I appreciate all of the help and feedback. After a few events yesterday before I had to leave for work, I have decided to move out and will start the process of filing for divorce. I was told to go F myself because I posted on here asking for help. I'm honestly tired. Been at this for almost 10 years. Haven't been happy in a long time. I will be attending counseling starting next week to help deal with the situation and to be able to talk to someone.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You'll be surprised to find out what it's like not to be walking on eggshells all the time. How good it feels. You're making the right move. Be sure and tell everyone the truth - before she gets her version out there.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Your happiness is important and don't let anyone tell you anything different.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

turnera said:


> You'll be surprised to find out what it's like not to be walking on eggshells all the time. How good it feels. You're making the right move. Be sure and tell everyone the truth - before she gets her version out there.


It's already too late for that. She continues to post on Fb, always on her phone texting etc. But it's okay. I'm just trying to focus on my future and getting my life back on track.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Don't worry too much about her version getting out there. People will fall into one of 3 camps: 1) Don't care who did or said what, 2) On her side no matter what, 3) On your side no matter what.

You will be able to tell the people that matter to you your side of the story. Your family, good friends, your boss (if necessary), etc. They will be on your side and will believe you. Generally, the less you say the better. Give a general basic short description of what happened. If they ask questions, give a little but not a lot more.

Her close friends, her family, and distant acquaintances of yours don't matter to your life anyhow. It doesn't matter if they think you are evil itself. So don't bother trying to convince them of your side of the story.

Interestingly, one of my ex's long time friends approached me and she obviously observed my ex through the years and has a pretty good read on what was happening. I think people who know you will have a fairly accurate view of who you are and thus will filter whatever they are told even if they are her friends or family. Still, these people don't matter to your future so don't worry about what they think.


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## thatguy88 (Jun 11, 2017)

Thor said:


> Don't worry too much about her version getting out there. People will fall into one of 3 camps: 1) Don't care who did or said what, 2) On her side no matter what, 3) On your side no matter what.
> 
> You will be able to tell the people that matter to you your side of the story. Your family, good friends, your boss (if necessary), etc. They will be on your side and will believe you. Generally, the less you say the better. Give a general basic short description of what happened. If they ask questions, give a little but not a lot more.
> 
> ...


Yeah your right. People who know me and have been around me expressed concern because they say they could tell i wasn't the same. And when me and my wife seperated everyone noticed how happy i was. I was smiling and laughing and enjoying life again.

Last thing ill say about it. The last little jab she tried to throw at me was blaming me for how she treated the other guy i found out about. Mind you I didn't even know this guy at all. Plus my wife and i had hardly any contacts while we were seperated. And she admitted to bashing me to him. Makes me think she started doing to him what she was doing to me and he stood up to her. But she tried to say what she did to him was my fault.


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