# New on here - need advice



## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Hello,

My WW left about 2.5 years ago. Said she needed space, I was a terrible husband and father, and that she no longer loved me. I was devastated and completely baffled. I asked if there was someone else and she adamantly said no. Time goes by and of course this OM starts showing up at her new place. Kids tell me about it and they are upset. Find out its a guy from work with whom she had an emotional affair 7 years before. I figured it out, confronted her, and told her she had to choose him or me. She chose me, or so she said. I starters asking about OM and what the deal was. Her response is essentially to stop communicating with me. So I contacted his ex. She forwards me all the emails my WW sent her detailing 7 year affair and how she is in love with this guy and was waiting for them to separate. Worst day of my life. I confronted her and she denied everything, said it was taken out of context, and to stay out of her life. I waited a long time for her to wake up and realize she made a mistake but instead she file for support and divorce. I finally realized last fall that she was a waste of time and stopped communicating with her other than anything about the kids. She has since said she would like to have a better relationship and she attempts to be nice at times but she is mostly a manipulative liar who wants to still control me and how I parent the kids when I have them.

She has no desire to R. She has been living with OM since September and I told her that I have no respect for either her or him and that while they are together I have no interest in even trying to be friendly. 

My problem is that she emails or texts me about the kids more often that I care for. I set boundaries and she completely ignores them. She asked repeatedly to meet for coffee to discuss our divorce and each time I refused. She emails questions about the kids and asks to talk about it. I tell her I prefer everything in email. I told her back in the spring that I have said everything that needed to be said and that the only time I would consider talking to her was if she wanted to reconcile. I told her I am not sure i would reconcile, but out of respect for the kids I would feel compelled to have that discussion.

My problem is two-fold. In some ways I am still in love with the woman I married and its very hard for me to move no when she keeps emailing about the kids. My other problem is that I love my kids and hate to only have them 50% of the time. I miss them dearly when they are with her. Sometimes I think I would reconcile just to be with them all the time.

My question is if anyone has any advice going forward? I am doing a great job of not contacting her unless its about the kids or the divorce. But how can I get her to leave me alone? And if not, what is the best way to fully move on while having her harass me? I know my not talking to her is not in my kids best interest but at what point is it ok to do what is best for me? 

Yes, it has been 2.5 years but I held onto hope for at least a year and change. It's only been since last fall that I accepted my marriage was over and started trying to move on. I realize I should be past all this by now but I am not.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Ug. Just divorce her. Don't even speak about reconciliation. She had a seven year affair. DNA the kids. Go completely dark.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

I agree on the divorce. I just wondered if anyone else came across this problem of the ex not leaving them alone and how they handled it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Only communicate with her via email and text. Only answer immediately for emergencies. Otherwise wait an hour, a day , a week..the longest you can before replying. Only reply to the 'business' of taking care of the children. 


If she says something emotional, just ignore it.

Do not let her come to your home. If she's picking up the kids... she has to let them walk from the car to the house.

Stop as much contact with her as possible.

And start getting your own life. What do you do to meet people, go places and have fun these days?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Otter326 said:


> I agree on the divorce. I just wondered if anyone else came across this problem of the ex not leaving them alone and how they handled it?


Yes. Search out Regroup in the TAM search box. His thread is titled "Time To Regroup And Move On" or similar. One of the most epic threads and an abject lesson in how to deal with an ex with no respect for boundaries. He and his ex were in a very similar circumstance.

Pay particular attention to Mavash and Conrad in that thread. Reading that will teach you exactly what you need to do.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Vulcan2013 said:


> DNA the kids.



:iagree:


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Pull the bandaid off and rebuild your life minus the unremorseful cheating spouse. Focus on yourself and your kids. 

Definitely do the DNS test it is cheap and easy and private.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Otter326 said:


> Hello,
> 
> My WW left about 2.5 years ago. Said she needed space, I was a terrible husband and father, and that she no longer loved me. I was devastated and completely baffled. I asked if there was someone else and she adamantly said no. Time goes by and of course this OM starts showing up at her new place. Kids tell me about it and they are upset. Find out its a guy from work with whom she had an emotional affair 7 years before. I figured it out, confronted her, and told her she had to choose him or me. She chose me, or so she said. I starters asking about OM and what the deal was. Her response is essentially to stop communicating with me. So I contacted his ex. She forwards me all the emails my WW sent her detailing 7 year affair and how she is in love with this guy and was waiting for them to separate. Worst day of my life. I confronted her and she denied everything, said it was taken out of context, and to stay out of her life. I waited a long time for her to wake up and realize she made a mistake but instead *she file for support* and divorce. I finally realized last fall that she was a waste of time and stopped communicating with her other than anything about the kids. She has since said she would like to have a better relationship and she attempts to be nice at times but she is mostly a manipulative liar who wants to still control me and how I parent the kids when I have them.
> 
> ...


If the OM is living with her this *could* affect spousal support if it can be proven.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Counselling to get through the grief of the death of your faithful wife might help.

Yeah. She did die. Your xw murdered her in cold blood.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Responses to the posts above:

DNA - I find it amusing a bunch of you jumped on that. My first child was born before she knew the guy and my second one when born was the spitting image of my first so I am sure they are mine. No one that knows me has ever suggested DNA testing simply because the second child (my son) looks a lot like me. At the time of his conception I thought we were trying to work on our marriage. I did get tested for STD's. Came back negative thank the good Lord.

As for starting my life over - she left in 2013 and I spent most of that year trying to win her back - mistake.
I spent most of 2014 very sad and slightly depressed. Lots of drinking. But also time healing and spending a lot of time with my kids. (I asked for 50% custody and she refused telling me I was a terrible father, so I took her to court and won joint custody. That infuriated her) I realized over the holidays last year that I needed to start working on myself so I started working out, cut down immensely on my drinking, and my mental outlook has improved. I have a lot of friends (one of the contentions in our marriage as she doesn't really have any friends and I did) and I do a decent job of keeping myself busy. I haven't joined any groups or picked up any hobbies. I have not started dating. One, I am still mourning the loss of my marriage and two, I actually am rather picky when it comes to women and with all the changes my kids have gone thru i thought i better to just focus on them. Plus, believe it or not, I am quite jaded. I know, shocking.

My biggest problem anymore is reflecting. I find myself doing it more than I should or even want to. I was with her from basically 22 - 37 so the majority of my adulthood. I have so many memories of all the great things we did. And its all garbage at this point. 

One positive, i have a much better relationship with my kids now. she is a very controlling person and her parenting style is very different than mine. when we were together i deferred to her since she is a teacher and is much better at installing discipline. however, i am much more loving and attentive. 

I have considered therapy and my one friend keeps encouraging me to go, but between work, kids and such i just have not done so. It probably would help me to move on with my life more efficiently. 

Most days i feel as if i am in stasis. I don't want her back anymore, but i cant stop reflecting and wish she hadn't left. I miss being a family and i hate only seeing my kids 50% of the time. I am very resentful that she has done this to me and the kids and to a lesser extent herself.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

If she begged you to come back tomorrow, I sense that you wouldn't hesitate to R with her. You have to get to a point where that prospect is laughable to you - given the depth of her betrayal. You would regret trying to R with her I can assure you. 

You don't need to hate her, you don't need to be friends with her; you need to feel "indifferent" about her. That's particularly important with joint custody. That takes some time, but perhaps it's time for you to start dating again. That might speed up the process.

Continue to implement the 180 and continue to limit your contact with her; just as you've been doing. Focus on yourself and your children. Get out of the house and have some fun when you're not with your kids. Consider going to IC.

Fake it till you make it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Otter

Bad Memory is right.



> I miss being a family and i hate only seeing my kids 50% of the time. I am very resentful that she has done this to me and the kids and to a lesser extent herself.


This is completely normal. But I have to say part of the hurdle is getting your STBXW out of your mind. She is no longer the same woman. She is a liar and a cheat.


I think a little counseling would be good for you. You need to realize your EXW is not the same person you fell in love with and had children those years ago.

You are still young. You have the time to get your head on straight, regain your sense of "self" and then get back out into the dating world.


There are so many better women out there.


And maybe one day when you are strong again you can have that conversation with your ExW about her divorce. But I have to warn you. It will probably be a waste of time.

The fact is she lied to you, cheated on you and trickle truthed you.

That is triple damage. That is cruel treatment from someone that claimed to once love you. Don't take the blame but also realize you should never have chased her.

Why you ask? Because she is not worthy of you and is not remorseful for her hurtful actions.

So keep her at arms length. Focus on you, your kids and your issues.

I assure you if you do that you will feel great about yourself a year from now.

Now go stand in front of your mirror and make yourself a promise.

"I will heal myself. I will focus on me and my children. I will replace my ***** of an ex with someone that loves me, respects me and cares for my children as if they were her own".

Keep moving forward.

HM


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Quit making excuses and start dating. It would be really hard for you to find a worse woman than your ex.

First thing is get the MMSLP book below.

BTW, cheaters always tell their spouses they're terrible husband/father etc. Blah blah blah.

BTW 2 cheating teachers are a dime a dozen here.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Thx HM. Good advice.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Chaparall:

Ha. OM is the guidance counselor and a complete db to boot. Cant say my ex is much better though. Between the two of them they destroyed two marriages and completely altered 4 kids childhoods. Complete db's in my humble opinion.


I will be sure to check out your book. Thanks for the advice.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

Sorry you're here. There's probably not much I can add to the advice you've already gotten here. Just wanted to say hang in there. The people here understand what you're going through. We're all here for you. I don't know if I could've got through my ordeal with out the good friends I made here on TAM. Sounds like you're on the right track. Wishing you the best..


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

The other posters are right....only communicate about the D proceedings and kids....PERIOD.

You are NOT letting your kids down by not being friends with their scummy mother.

In fact....its great role modeling IMO....you are showing them that you do not keep traitorous, backstabbing, disgusting 'friends' in your life.....they get kicked to the curb like the trash they are.

That does NOT mean be nasty or uncivil....it means be unemotional, indifferent, even a little cold.

Your kids are going to come across A LOT of people in life that they really don't like (we all do), but have to work or deal with out of necessity.

Demonstrate to your kids how to do that by how you interact with their cheating mother.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

set up a Google calendar and tell your ex that you will only communicate about the kids through the calendar, that you are no longer answering her texts and emails.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Tinder is your friend. 

Get busy moving on.


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

Otter326 said:


> In some ways I am still in love with the woman I married and its very hard for me to move on.


This worries me a lot. After 2,5 years it seems that OP is holding on to a codependency driven illusion. Not healthy at all.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> BY Otter
> *I waited a long time for her to wake up and realize she made a mistake but instead she file for support and divorce*
> 
> I have considered therapy and my one friend keeps encouraging me to go, but between work, kids and such i just have not done so. It probably would help me to move on with my life more efficiently.
> ...


*
Get help for yourself NOW!!* Your marriage is over and so is your relationship with your ex-wife.

Concentrate on the positive that you have (your children are affected positively by your love and attention) and that *you can build a much better life without having a serial betrayer as a wife*. Stop trying to relive the past and get going on your new life that has more potential than the one you had with a woman that disrespected you in the worst way more than once.

If you do not get her out of your mind and heart then you will be an emotional weakling. You have been shyt on and so have millions of others. *Stop your resentment and find out how to forgive so that it will be better FOR YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN*! As long as you resent her you and your children will be the one that will suffer. *Stop looking for justice and concentrate on what will help you and your children. Millions have done that and so can you!*


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

It
Sucks

It 
Isn't 
Fair

SHE did this, not you.

Set reasonable boundaries, concentrate on your life and kids, don't take her bait, be repelled when she communicates, not secretly happy about it.

The love you had for her is an illusion, a very real one, but it wasn't real in the sense she hid her "true" self from you. It's easier for you (and me) to deal with that illusion than the truth.

If this had happened to your best friend - everything you know - what you tell them to do in your place knowing what you know? Stop, get your own life, ignore her, go be happy don't waste any more of your life.


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## cgiles (Dec 10, 2014)

Get "no more mr nice guy" by robert glover too, it will help you too.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

Were you ever on dates ?

What are your plans to restart your dating life ?

Once you start getting busy, thoughts about her will start to get lesser and lesser.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

dental said:


> This worries me a lot. After 2,5 years it seems that OP is holding on to a codependency driven illusion. Not healthy at all.


:iagree:

Otter... the fact that you would even THINK about reconciling with your wretched spouse is very disturbing.

I hope counseling can help you sort this out. You need a good counselor. Like, yesterday.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Eh, she is linked to those emotional memories and it takes time to learn that she is a different person. Years of a certain view and at first, it is incredulous to believe what you are seeing now with the idea of what you know. It is confusing as you learn to reconcile the two different people. 

My advice would be to focus on the here and now, the person she is currently, and deal with that person. The past her is a different her, or at least a better version of her. Whether she was ever that person or not is moot, but what matters is the person she is projecting.

So relearn the person she is by focusing in on the present and absorb the info gathered. Then learn that what you lost is already gone, and move on with your life as yougrieve what is no longer.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

I try to look at it like this.

If that woman was doing what you know to your best friend, what you tell him or her? Then do it. The old her is G O N E....


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

You have to get yourself squared away in steps and step one is getting her out of your mind in a romantic way. The marriage is over and every time you think about wanting her back, just remember what she did and ask yourself if you deserve better.

Second thing is your not ready to date and the reason is until you get your ex out of your head, you can never give a new relationship a fair shot and it won't be fair to the woman your dating and to you. You need a clear mind and heart first, then go out and date.

Third thing is I know you only get to see your kids part time but the secret is making the most of the time with them. I've know parents that can be in the same room with their kids and they may as well be across country because there is no quality time with them. 

The biggest thing you have to do is stop hoping that the woman you once knew will come back. She's gone and the one your now dealing with isn't who you want to live your life with.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Otter, the woman you thought you married is gone, if she ever existed. Accept that, mourn it, and move on. It sucks, but you'll get through it


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Hey,

I wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. I have read all of your posts and agree with most of what was written. Part of the problem i was having the week i initially posted was that my ex and ap took my kids and his kids to Disney that week and while I thought i was ok with it apparently it affected more than i expected. 

To be clear, my goal is to move on with my life and leave her behind. The way i look at is this: I don't trust her and without trust there can be no relationship (not even friends). As such, she is a waste of my precious time. 

I have thought about dating but it seems like the women i meet who i am interested in do not feel the same way. I figure i will meet someone in time and meanwhile i spend all my energy on my kids creating the strongest possible relationship with them that i can. i may not get to see them everyday, but i can try to make them feel special when i do have them. 


My biggest dilemma going forward is maintaining the boundaries that I have set. Every couple months or so my ex decides to play nice and try to co-parent. I have no interest in doing so at this time, nor do I want to communicate with her. I just don't know how nor do I want to deal with her. My life is much better the less we communicate. I can accept that she is gone. I am ok with it. But the minute she starts playing nice and asking to talk about something regarding the kids all these emotions come flooding back. Has anyone else experienced this? How did you handle it? So far I have handled it by telling her I want to communicate thru email only and be as brief as possible hoping she would get the point. but she doesn't.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Otter326 said:


> Hey,
> 
> I wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. I have read all of your posts and agree with most of what was written. Part of the problem i was having the week i initially posted was that my ex and ap took my kids and his kids to Disney that week and while I thought i was ok with it apparently it affected more than i expected.
> 
> ...


Buddy you better make up your mind. The kids are the innocent victims here. Stop with the immaturity and communicate with her like an adult when it comes to the kids. Otherwise the "relationship" you're trying to maintain with them will disintegrate.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Otter
You both should be able to coparent together. Your children deserve that. 

If her conversation moves towards any other topic just shut her down with:

"No one deserves to be lied to or cheated on the way you did to me. We will be coparents for our children but I have no desire give friends with you."

That says it all. You contr your emotions not her. 

And when you find the right woman everything will fall into place. 

HM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Your ex-wife is a teacher and the OM is a guidance counsellor. They have both taken courses in educational counselling which places you at a disadvantage. You have low self-esteem which your ex is using against you. She has wrapped you in her little finger and has no respect for you. You are in a "Yo Yo Situation"; up and down in her little finger. 

See a psychologist to set your mind straight and take on the "battle axe". Two against one with psychology background, against you, is a losing battle. Wake up and fix your mindset!


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

I agree with what you are saying. I have tried communicating with her about the kids. Let me give you an example. On Memorial day I took the kids to a picnic at my parents house. my mom put out a tray of vegetables and my kids ate every single carrot and cucumber. my mom had to put out more. I thought it was funny that they ate all of them and mentioned this to my daughter as I was putting her to bed that night. she responded by asking if I thought she was fat. My daughter is 10 and has a healthy body weight. She is not fat. She is not super skinny. but she is by no means fat. I told her that and she started crying telling me that her mom calls her fat and its really hurts her. the next morning I emailed her mom and let her know that our daughter was having body issues and that we should be careful in what we say to her. I tried to be diplomatic and said that my son called her fat and it really bothered her so I was hoping she could monitor the situation. I figured she would get the hint. Instead, she replied by telling me that she works out, that she is fit and that she would be more than happy to give me suggestions to ensure our children did not in fact become overweight. She totally missed the point. So I replied and explained the conversation I had with my daughter. I wrote in the email that I did not think she was deliberating trying to hurt my daughter or cause issues. That she was probably joking around but I wanted her to know it was a having a negative effect on our daughter. I was not mean nor was I rude. I made sure that I was not accusatory as I knew that would not help the situation. Regardless, she came back by saying that she had an idea, She thought that she would play a game with my daughter and ask her "who is more fat. you or your father? who is more fat, you or your fathers mom? she said that by the time she got thru my family my daughter would feel great about herself. So rather than have a real adult conversation about our kids and issues they might have she decided to fat shame me and my family. that was her response. 

her response above is typical. if she doesn't like the way things are going she carpet bombs me, never apologizes and then expects me to treat her as if nothing happened in the future when she has decided to play nice for the kids sake. Its all an act and its all for her benefit. I have tried over and over again to establish some sort of rapport for the kids sake and everytime she burned the bridge. I gave up. it was an exercise in futility. she demands respect but refuses to give it. i came to the conclusion that on my end not co-parenting and subjecting myself to that was better for the kids. i am much happier when we don't communicate and it translates to my relationship with my kids. I do feel bad at times because they ask if we are ever going to be friends again. I didn't choose this crap. I am just trying to deal the best way i know how.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

So you see its pointless to discuss things with your wife. By what you've just written I can't understand why you miss her.

Do not respond to emails and texts that are superfluous. Only respond to important things. Ignore complaints she has. Calling your daughter fat just means she's an a$$hole. Life rule number three is avoid a$$holes at all costs.

Tell her she can't get out of the car at your house and you do the same at her place.

Did you read the MMSLP book below?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, are you getting counseling? Preferably PTSD counseling.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I think Chap is right.....why would you want such a horror as your WW back?

You are well rid of her, and are wise to reject any kind of friendship with her.

Just keep the communications to emails, and only about kids....an out and out kid emergency should be the only exception to this.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Honestly. that is what kills me. While she has one of the nicest set of legs you will ever see (her finest redeeming quality) she wasn't even that good in bed. I tell myself every day that I don't want her back. if this were happening to a friend of mine i would tell him that she is a worthless b and he is better off without her. i realize that applies to me. I think i miss the lifestyle more. I liked coming home to a wife and kids. I liked having a family unit. And once i do find someone else like happyman64 said things will fall into place. but until then sometimes it feels like complete purgatory.

so yes, i try to keep the communication to emails and only about the kids unless its an emergency. its just annoying that she doesn't reciprocate.

maybe you guys are right. maybe a counselor would help me sort this out...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A counselor is more in line for your DAUGHTER than you.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> My WW left about 2.5 years ago. Said she needed space, I was a *terrible* husband and father, and that she no longer loved me


Stop allowing the fact that you were a terrible husband and father keep you in low-self-respect chains and guilt prison! You were that way but now you have the love and affection of your children and you obviously are much wiser about your daughter and the ridiculous fat conversation your foolish ex-wife tells your daughter.


A for the emails; when you view an email from her and read anything that starts talking about anything than other than only conversation about your children then IMMEDIATELY stop and send a reply back that says REJECTED, ONLY ABSOLUTE ISSUES WITH CHILDREN WILL BE READ; THE ONLY THING WE HAVE IN COMMON IS THE CHILDREN; WE ARE NOT MARRIED AND NOT FRIENDS!

Keep showing your children love and attention because they are your treasure. Your ex-wife will fade into indifference if you take the right steps. Get all the help you can from all sources so that you can heal faster. Work on your emotions and spirit; if you get better in those areas you will get SIGNIFICALLY better!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Otter,

Your relationship with your ex is pretty similar to my relationship with my ex-H. We've come to a place where we should only be talking about very simple logistics about the kids, and not even "welfare" kinds of things (like how you emailed her about the fat comment.)

I had a long talk with my therapist this week about issues just like this, and her advice to you would have just been to not engage your ex wife at all in a discussion about it, but not criticize her for being mean to your daughter either. Rather, just hug and reassure your daughter, say something like, "Awww, honey, that's not true. You know that's not true, right? I'm so sorry you were made to feel that way. I think God made you perfectly in His image (if you're religious) and gave you a great mind to make healthy food choices, and it makes me proud to see you doing that like today at Grandma's house. I think you're the most beautiful 10 year old girl I've ever seen and I'm so lucky to be your dad!" And leave it at that. You cannot control what is said to the kids when you don't have them, but you can control what YOU say to them and DON'T say to them. 

Anyone who read my most recent thread about my latest interaction with my ex (which I have since deleted since it was really detailed and I didn't want it to identify me in any way, just in case) will understand why I needed that exact advice from my counselor! 

Over the weekend my sister sent me some articles about co-parenting with a narcisstic ex-spouse and one thing in there may help you if you could get your wife to agree to it. (I'm not saying she's a narcissist, I have no clue). Websites like this have been mentioned here before, too. https://www.ourfamilywizard.com/ It is a place for you two to communicate and all records of communications are kept, schedules, and even a place to keep the kids expenses/reimbursements, etc. in order I believe. My ex would never do this and would taunt ME for having the time for it since I have a "cake job,", but if your wife would agree, maybe it's an option.

Another option is to do what my counselor advised this week to do when the texting or emailing conversation gets out of control: "I'm sorry, I'm going to start deleting every text from you as soon as it comes in for right now, until at least until tomorrow, so if you're going to be putting some information in the texts about the kids that I absolutely have to know, I won't see it."

Finally, I really think you should just file for divorce and get some closure and a new beginning. It's VERY hard to deal with the loss of the family unit, but I can tell you it is possible. My ex and I divorced in 2010 and I struggled with that a LOT. I'd wake up at 4:30 in a panic over it . We reconciled last year, and it ended in a worse disaster than the first time. We can't even be on the same soccer field with each other right now, let alone in the same room, or even have a phone conversation. I want to get to a more civil place, obviously, but what I can tell you is that I'm no longer mourning the loss of the family unit. I guess I mourn OTHER family's happy family units (or covet them), but not the one we had.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Hi Mr. Blunt. thanks for the advice but I would like to point out that you read my quote wrong. I never said or believed I was a terrible husband or father. She said that when leaving. I will never say I should win husband of the year, but I was not a terrible husband and I am a great father. After my ex left my ex mother in law emailed me and told me that she thought I was one of the best fathers she has ever met (she wasn't happy about the split at the time, I am guessing she still feels the same way). That actually meant a lot to me. I have actually become a better dad since the separation. I requested and received an alternative work arrangement in order to ensure I have joint custody of my kids. So I get to spend more time with them now than I ever did when married. That is the major plus of the separation.


Also, I actually have a pretty healthy self-esteem. I know myself very well and I like myself. always have. I don't like where my life is at presently, but I still like myself.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Hi Secondtime'round. I feel your pain. I too am envious of other peoples happy family unit's. I plan on getting there again at some point, just not sure with whom and when. I know all about the cant be around each other. Last summer she told me (she is a teacher) that she didn't want to watch the kids on my days because that would be having to see me 2x a day (drop off and pickup). But starting last fall she realized that I no longer wanted to communicate with her and then she decided we should co-parent. now she more than willing to talk on the phone, meet for coffee, etc to talk about the kids or the house (getting sold in the divorce). But after months of her telling me that I had to communicate thru her ap (I refused), telling me that I should be grateful for all that he does for my kids, and the nasty coments towards me (she had the nerve to ask me at the support hearing if I ever wondered what he could give her that I could not) I just decided that she wanted me out of her life and that was the best thing for me. so yes, it may not be the best for the kids if we just keep our communication to logistics and such, but its best for me. I know that if I try to do more she will revert back to her nastiness. the whole fat shaming email exchange was more than two years after the separation. Its just not worth it. She is not worth it. My time is too precious to waste on such things. I have conveyed this to her countless times. She just doesn't care because this doesn't benefit her.


As for what your counselor advised, I do usually let a lot of things that get said at her house go. Its not worth the hassle. On this point however, I had to say something. And if I had to get personally attacked as a result so be it. I would rather take the hit than have my daughter have an inferiority complex. It seems my email did work. I asked my daughter several days later if me ex told her about the email exchange. She said that my ex did tell her and said "You know I don't think you are fat. I was only teasing you. I wont say it anymore." So hopefully I put that one to bed. There will be plenty more in the years to come. And to clarify I didn't mention to my daughter how me ex fat shamed me and my family. My kids have been thru enough. I don't talk about fights, the divorce or anything with them. If they ask I tell them their mother decided she want to be with AP and that we have to respect her decision. I tell them that their mother no longer needs me as a friend because she has ap now. While its not the answer they want to hear, its honest and its fair.

Yes, my ex is narcissistic and self-absorbed. it has actually gotten worse as she has gotten older. Could be the pill addiction causing that though. Not my problem anymore though. its ap's problem now. 

My lawyer advised the myfamilywizard thing as well. problem is costs roughly 200 to join and I doubt my ex would even use it. She likes to be in control so she would continue to text or email me just out of spite.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Otter326 said:


> Hi Secondtime'round. I feel your pain. I too am envious of other peoples happy family unit's. I plan on getting there again at some point, just not sure with whom and when. I know all about the cant be around each other. Last summer she told me (she is a teacher) that she didn't want to watch the kids on my days because that would be having to see me 2x a day (drop off and pickup). But starting last fall she realized that I no longer wanted to communicate with her and then she decided we should co-parent. now she more than willing to talk on the phone, meet for coffee, etc to talk about the kids or the house (getting sold in the divorce). But after months of her telling me that I had to communicate thru her ap (I refused), telling me that I should be grateful for all that he does for my kids, and the nasty coments towards me (she had the nerve to ask me at the support hearing if I ever wondered what he could give her that I could not) I just decided that she wanted me out of her life and that was the best thing for me. so yes, it may not be the best for the kids if we just keep our communication to logistics and such, but its best for me. I know that if I try to do more she will revert back to her nastiness. the whole fat shaming email exchange was more than two years after the separation. Its just not worth it. She is not worth it. My time is too precious to waste on such things. I have conveyed this to her countless times. She just doesn't care because this doesn't benefit her.
> 
> 
> As for what your counselor advised, I do usually let a lot of things that get said at her house go. Its not worth the hassle. On this point however, I had to say something. And if I had to get personally attacked as a result so be it. I would rather take the hit than have my daughter have an inferiority complex. It seems my email did work. I asked my daughter several days later if me ex told her about the email exchange. She said that my ex did tell her and said "You know I don't think you are fat. I was only teasing you. I wont say it anymore." So hopefully I put that one to bed. There will be plenty more in the years to come. And to clarify I didn't mention to my daughter how me ex fat shamed me and my family. My kids have been thru enough. I don't talk about fights, the divorce or anything with them. If they ask I tell them their mother decided she want to be with AP and that we have to respect her decision. I tell them that their mother no longer needs me as a friend because she has ap now. While its not the answer they want to hear, its honest and its fair.
> ...


Our ex's are two peas in a pod. I get the fat shaming too, regularly. And I'm not fat. (I'm just not a size 2 like the OW and admit I should lose 15-20 pounds, working on it). He has told me how much he likes to "F her sexy tight skinny little body" compared to mine (complete with simulation of it against a door frame) and regularly asks me if I'm "jiggling" - which is his reference to my weight and having a "double chin." If he EVER makes my daughter feel fat I will probably unleash on him. She wouldn't tell me if he did though because she worships the ground he walks on. 

To your original question, I don't know how to get your ex to leave you alone other than to just keep ignoring emails/texts unless it absolutely requires a response about the kids and their schedule, etc. 

She sounds like a very confused woman.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Our ex's are two peas in a pod. I get the fat shaming too, regularly. And I'm not fat. (I'm just not a size 2 like the OW and admit I should lose 15-20 pounds, working on it). He has told me how much he likes to "F her sexy tight skinny little body" compared to mine (complete with simulation of it against a door frame) and regularly asks me if I'm "jiggling" - which is his reference to my weight and having a "double chin." If he EVER makes my daughter feel fat I will probably unleash on him. She wouldn't tell me if he did though because she worships the ground he walks on.
> 
> To your original question, I don't know how to get your ex to leave you alone other than to just keep ignoring emails/texts unless it absolutely requires a response about the kids and their schedule, etc.
> 
> She sounds like a very confused woman.


Wow. Sorry, STR.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Yeah really. Sorry STR. He sounds like complete jackass. I can see why you don't talk to him. Don't blame you at all. No one needs that in their life. 

I am not really fat either. I could lose 15-20 as well, but i am not fat. Her OM runs marathons (at least he did) and is super skinny as well. Luckily, other than asking what he could give her that i could not, we never had a conversation where she compared us and pointed out her perceived inadequacies of mine. 

yeah, at this point in order to keep the communication to a minimum i only respond if its necessary and then i try to combine as many things in one email as possible. it somewhat works. she knows though that i will do what is best for the kids regardless of how it impacts me and she uses that to her advantage. 

confused? i don't know. maybe. she comes across as very confident. but i also know that is because she has very low self-esteem and that is her way of hiding it. Classic narcissist. as for the confusion, she never wavered in her wanting out of the marriage, filing for divorce, having ap move in and getting me out of her life. at least i never saw her waver. she seemed pretty certain what she wanted to do.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Otter326 said:


> confused? i don't know. maybe. she comes across as very confident. but i also know that is because she has very low self-esteem and that is her way of hiding it. Classic narcissist. as for the confusion, she never wavered in her wanting out of the marriage, filing for divorce, having ap move in and getting me out of her life. at least i never saw her waver. she seemed pretty certain what she wanted to do.


She is the exact opposite of self confident and probably hates herself, actually. And she unleashes her misplaced anger on you because "you" are the one who has exposed her ugly insides and she's forced to see them.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

I agree she isn't self confident. she comes off that way to hide her low self esteem. as you can expect, she is always dressed to the nines. always has makeup on and is in great shape. she has to look her best because its all she has got. 

the part that worries me is that she and the ap put such an emphasis on physical appearance that i know they are giving my kids the wrong message. luckily i have them 50% of the time and can mitigate some of those messages.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I call that mitigating the damage....


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Otter326 said:


> she has to look her best because its all she has got.


I've said this many, many times about my ex. He's no fashionista, but in terms of his physique and criticism of others who aren't as disciplined as him, yes. 

It's good your kids have you to balance this out. There's nothing wrong with being in tip-top shape and always trying to prevent your best self, but it's not THE most important thing in life. Beauty fades as bodies age.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

STR, I totally agree. I liked that she was fit and in shape while we were together. her body was amazing after two kids. I tried to keep in the best shape i could while married. its not like i let myself go completely. i want my kids to have eat healthy and live healthy lives, but i also want them to understand that if they don't perfect that is ok. 

I read where narcissistic mothers project themselves onto their kids. Their kids have to look perfect just like them and they will tend to harp on perceived flaws which tends to be damaging to the children in the long run. My ex is no different in this aspect. but understanding this, at least i can do countermeasures. its a process.

and your ex and my ex would probably either love or hate each other. my ex is the same way. she pretty much despises overweight people. has no respect for them. hates the idea of plus size models. liked to watch csi: Miami because it only featured "beautiful people" on it, regardless of the lame ass story lines. however, she might end up hating him because she ends up hating just about everyone she meets. i thought i was the exception to the rule. maybe my kids are the only exception. time will tell.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I've said this many, many times about my ex. He's no fashionista, but in terms of his physique and criticism of others who aren't as disciplined as him, yes.
> 
> It's good your kids have you to balance this out. There's nothing wrong with being in tip-top shape and always trying to prevent your best self, but it's not THE most important thing in life. Beauty fades as bodies age.


Sigh

STR your ex is a wretched human being. Doesn't he claim to be a believer?

Reading your thread and Otter's just makes me more thankful for my wonderful wife. The only place I will disagree is with your last sentence. My wife is more beautiful today than she was when we got married... but its not just physical beauty but an inward beauty which is hard to explain its so existential.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Absurdist said:


> STR your ex is a wretched human being. *Doesn't he claim to be a believer?*


Yes, since childhood.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Otter
> Hi Mr. Blunt. thanks for the advice but I would like to point out that you read my quote wrong. I never said or believed I was a terrible husband or father. She said that when leaving. I will never say I should win husband of the year, but I was not a terrible husband and *I am a great father*. After my ex left my ex mother in law emailed me and told me that she thought I was one of the best fathers she has ever met (she wasn't happy about the split at the time, I am guessing she still feels the same way). That actually meant a lot to me. I have actually become a better dad since the separation. I requested and received an alternative work arrangement in order to ensure I have joint custody of my kids. So I get to spend more time with them now than I ever did when married. That is the major plus of the separation.
> 
> 
> *Also, I actually have a pretty healthy self-esteem. I know myself very well and I like myself. always have. I don't like where my life is at presently, but I still like myself*.



Sorry I read your first post wrong. Very glad to see that you are so healthy, I do not see that very often on this forum. Congradulations on being a great father, your children will need you. Although you may still be hurting and/or bothered by your ex-wife, I would bet money that you will be WHOLE LOT better in the next 2-3 years!


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Mr Blunt - No worries. I can see how you could have misread that. 

I am actually a lot better than i was two years ago and I agree that I will be even better 2-3 years from now. I am a bit jaded but I think that is to be expected. I am ready for this crappy part of my life to be over and for the next, better part to begin. i know i have to go thru the process, but im getting tired of that. the process sucks!


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP how old are you and your ex-wife? How long was your marriage? In your posts, you glorified the appearance of your ex-wife, after two children. You also noted the OM weight and yours. You place so much stock on your appearances.

Career woman here and 35 years married (first time marriage for the both of us). When we were young at age 22 years and 24 years we were above average in our appearances. I say "above average" for modesty's sake. My husband was a downhill skier and I was a gymnast. We skied together and both in great shape. We were both honor students and we had the world by the palm of our hands.

Fast forward, I am now 57 and my husband 60. My husband's health declined and he gained weight because of complications with his medications. He is still attractive to me and his soul as handsome as when we were young. I respect him more than anyone else in this planet.

Your ex-wife has no respect for you, whatsoever. She is also disrespectful of your children by putting the burden of outward appearances and emphasizing weight. You need to take your children to a counselor as this environment will greatly affect them in the present and the future.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Otter326 said:


> I agree with what you are saying. I have tried communicating with her about the kids. Let me give you an example. On Memorial day I took the kids to a picnic at my parents house. my mom put out a tray of vegetables and my kids ate every single carrot and cucumber. my mom had to put out more. I thought it was funny that they ate all of them and mentioned this to my daughter as I was putting her to bed that night. she responded by asking if I thought she was fat. My daughter is 10 and has a healthy body weight. She is not fat. She is not super skinny. but she is by no means fat. I told her that and she started crying telling me that her mom calls her fat and its really hurts her. the next morning I emailed her mom and let her know that our daughter was having body issues and that we should be careful in what we say to her. I tried to be diplomatic and said that my son called her fat and it really bothered her so I was hoping she could monitor the situation. I figured she would get the hint. Instead, she replied by telling me that she works out, that she is fit and that she would be more than happy to give me suggestions to ensure our children did not in fact become overweight. She totally missed the point. So I replied and explained the conversation I had with my daughter. I wrote in the email that I did not think she was deliberating trying to hurt my daughter or cause issues. That she was probably joking around but I wanted her to know it was a having a negative effect on our daughter. I was not mean nor was I rude. I made sure that I was not accusatory as I knew that would not help the situation. Regardless, she came back by saying that she had an idea, She thought that she would play a game with my daughter and ask her "who is more fat. you or your father? who is more fat, you or your fathers mom? she said that by the time she got thru my family my daughter would feel great about herself. So rather than have a real adult conversation about our kids and issues they might have she decided to fat shame me and my family. that was her response.
> 
> her response above is typical. if she doesn't like the way things are going she carpet bombs me, never apologizes and then expects me to treat her as if nothing happened in the future when she has decided to play nice for the kids sake. Its all an act and its all for her benefit. I have tried over and over again to establish some sort of rapport for the kids sake and everytime she burned the bridge. I gave up. it was an exercise in futility. she demands respect but refuses to give it. i came to the conclusion that on my end not co-parenting and subjecting myself to that was better for the kids. i am much happier when we don't communicate and it translates to my relationship with my kids. I do feel bad at times because they ask if we are ever going to be friends again. I didn't choose this crap. I am just trying to deal the best way i know how.


Otter,

You're not some high school kid, you're a grown man. Start acting like it.

The woman cheated on you and destroyed your family. That makes her a loser. And any woman who calls her daughter fat is a total loser. If you still have feelings for someone who does that to you and your kids, then you really need help.

What should you have done? You should have gone over to see her (or, if that wasn't possible, called her up), told her what your daughter told you and said that you wanted her to knock it off. Then, you should left (or hung up). No arguing, just straight talk and clearly stated expectations. Not angry or belligerent, just calm and firm.

A man shouldn't be afraid to tell someone who is hurting his kids to stop it and he shouldn't hide behind an e-mail. Sure, rely on e-mails for routine matters, but have the courage to deal directly with your fWW when your kids' well-being is at stake. You wouldn't send an e-mail to some neighbor who was calling your daughter fat, would you? It's make no difference that the person hurting them is your fWW.

Sorry to be tough on you but you need to step up for your kids' sake -- and you need to get over her, now, for your own.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You sound like a wonderful, kind-hearted father who will have to work hard to counterbalance the damage that your ex will do to your children. It's not at all unusual, in my experience, for one spouse to have to do the positive raising of the children. It's a job that you wish you didn't have, but you can't drop the ball.

I teach learning-challenged students and face teachers like your ex all the time. They shouldn't be in charge of children's educations, in my opinion. I often ask myself WTH they go into the field for if they have such esteem-killing attitudes about people.

You ask for strategies to minimize contact with your XW & I think you are doing very well in that regard. You have to share custody, so there will be some unavoidable contact, but you appear to be allowing just what is necessary to get the job done.

Just keep doing your best with those kids. You need to be their role model as much as possible, not their narcissistic mom.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

So you are going to let the daughter take the abuse from your ex ? With a mother like your ex, it can be pretty damaging to her when she starts growing up into her teens. Bulimia, anorexia and other stuff.

Have you reported the OM at his work place ? This ********* is a guidance counselor ?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

There are a lot of guys here on TAM who were very in shape and buff when their wives cheated on them. 

There are a lot of women here on TAM who's WHs "affaired down" and banged fugly women for no damn good reason. Did you ever see that pig that Mutt Lange, Shania Twain's husband, cheated on her with? Shania Twain? One of the hottest chicks on the planet?

Your weight, being out of shape, not being a marathon runner, had nothing whatsoever to do with your WW leaving you. She cheated because she is broken and lost, and I guarantee she will eventually fvck up her relationship with the OM. Don't you doubt it.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> There are a lot of guys here on TAM who were very in shape and buff when their wives cheated on them.
> 
> *There are a lot of women here on TAM who's WHs "affaired down" and banged fugly women for no damn good reason.* Did you ever see that pig that Mutt Lange, Shania Twain's husband, cheated on her with? Shania Twain? One of the hottest chicks on the planet?
> 
> Your weight, being out of shape, not being a marathon runner, had nothing whatsoever to do with your WW leaving you. She cheated because she is broken and lost, and I guarantee she will eventually fvck up her relationship with the OM. Don't you doubt it.


 @Nomorebeans comes to mind!

As far as what @carmen ohio suggested about calling the mother or, worse, going to see her in person, respectfully I'm not sure you know what dealing with someone like this is actually like. The ONLY way this would/could remotely work is a phone call and then immediately hanging up, like you say. Otherwise you'd be dragged into an ugly yelling match of name calling and insults because the parent cannot be told they are wrong--ever. Emails/texts are the only way to deal with co-parenting with a person like this.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

Agree with STR. Calling her or speaking to her directly and telling her what to do would result in disaster. In reading articles and from personal experience I find the best way to deal with narcissists is to use their narcissism against them. narcissists are all about ego and want people around who will help inflate their ego. So if you want them to do something, make the idea seem like it was theirs and then give them positive reinforcement for the idea. 

Also, I have spent the last two years reinforcing the concept that she cannot call, text or email and tell me exactly how I am supposed to parent our children. Any act of the same on my part would be immediately noted by her and ignored. 

Lastly, I think a lot of people can understand that while I know the woman I married is dead, I still would like to think that there are glimpses of her still inside. Every couple months in the past I would think maybe she is finally ready to be civilized. Maybe, just maybe we can finally have a rational conversation. If not about us, at least about the kids. It would be nice to think that I still carried enough influence to be able to reach her if I really needed to. However, each time I tried, I realized I was wasting my time. I know, shame on me, but I am only human, and I just don't understand nor comprehend how she can act like this. It doesn't make any sense to me.

And to those who think I am crazy for saying in some ways I am still in love with her I was raised to not believe in divorce. My parents are still happily married after over 40 years. I was all in regarding my marriage. I would have never initiated a divorce or separation barring something extreme on my end. I knew that marriages have their ups and downs. I loved my wife unconditionally. I knew she had her flaws, but I believe that if you truly love someone you also love them for their flaws because that also makes them who they are. I know she completely disrespected me and treated me like crap. I know that I would not allow anyone else to ever treat me like she has. But I made a commitment to her and I don't take that commitment lightly. Yes, I have suffered for having these beliefs and it hasn't been easy watching this whole mess unfold (felt like an awful nightmare that I just don't wake up from) but I think in the long run I will feel better about myself knowing I stuck true to my principles. I got divorced knowing that I tried, that I didn't give up and I am proud of myself for doing so. I am mentally strong enough that i knew what i could endure. And when I felt overwhelmed, i prayed for help from above. My divorce was final at the end of july. I told her and she knew that i didn't want to get divorced. But for the marriage to work it takes both spouses. and she wasn't willing to make it work. I granted her what she wanted. now, yes, i can agree that maybe i am better off without her due to her being self-absorbed and having low moral character. But are my kids truly better off? I grapple with that. And my kids will always come before me. So if i thought that by enduring a bit more pain and actually reconciling i would do a great deal more good for my kids, i would do it without hesistation and i wouldn't give a d what anyone thought about it. That is who i am. Maybe i am wrong. I have ready many articles and the impact of divorce on kids goes back and forth. But all say that the best scenario is for the parents stay together.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nobody thinks you're dumb for loving her. We just want you to be practical, too, so you can protect yourself.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Otter326 said:


> So if i thought that by enduring a bit more pain and actually reconciling i would do a great deal more good for my kids, i would do it without hesistation and i wouldn't give a d what anyone thought about it. That is who i am. Maybe i am wrong. I have ready many articles and the impact of divorce on kids goes back and forth. But all say that the best scenario is for the parents stay together.


I can only speak from my own experience having reconciled after divorce and having it all blow up. My kids would HATE if we got back together again now, and they weren't even all that optimistic about it to begin with, especially my daughter (who is older). It was very awkward for her at first. My kids would have been much better off if we'd never reconciled and then blew up their worlds yet again.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

I have had a miserable 21 months with a similar ex regarding parenting, communication, narcissism, etc.

My advice is to go completely dark. 

File for divorce.
Start responding to necessary emails only. Even then, at the last possible second. If ex wants something and a decision doesn't have to be made for 3 weeks and 8 hours, respond in 3 weeks and 7 hours and 59 minutes.

Texts. Tell here she can only text you at certain times and only on certain topics. First time she breaks that say "I need cooperation as a coparent and your texting time falls out of the reasonable boundary I've set". Next time, add the words "I have blocked your cell phone". Up to you when to re-open. For me, I won't except texts all hours of the day, it affected my sleep and work. I blocked it once then she started trying to use "group" texts as a cover with other parents. I'm sure they don't like 6 AM texts either so I blocked it again. I'll unlock sometime.

If she speaks say hi or not, I recommend not engaging at times. Period, don't respond. Then sometimes say "Hi", nothing else, if ANYTHING other than something important for children comes out of her mouth say "How is this critical/important for children?" Then say, "If it's critical, I'd appreciate that in an email. Thanks." Walk away

Get single, fit, respect yourself. It's easier to give advice than take it.

But... deep down. If there were 20 women - smart, interesting, caring, ethical, good moms, whatever - and your ex was in the 20 - would you even want to date her or is it likely you've already decided she ISN'T what you'd want all over again. 

It's hard to kill "love". But love yourself enough to do it.

There are tons of debates here about dating. The one thing I've learned is the above. My ex is truly not a great person, in many ways she was an illusion. Talk with someone that really had a tough marriage or watch them care for their children.

Her leaving you is a gift.

I got a long diatribe letter once in an email about how horrible I'm being not communicating, etc. NONE of it remotely bad or of interest to a judge. I simply agreed, said her behaviors resulted in boundaries, and asked how that was pertinent going forward in the interest of our children. I then thanked her for having the strength to reveal her "true self" to me and said I sincerely hoped she's found the happiness she was looking for and deserved. My emails cut back 99% from her after that.

be prepared - when you detach it gets worse, not better. they are used to controlling


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"And to those who think I am crazy for saying in some ways I am still in love with her I was raised to not believe in divorce."

Otter326,

I don't know a single person who was raised to 'believe' in divorce.......everyone I know married believing that their M was meant to last for the rest of their lives.

And the same goes for all the other posters here giving you advice to detach from your horrid WW and stop looking to see change or any glimmers of hope in her....and at this point I would include stop looking for her to change even as a co-parent, much less for a chance she would come back.

Your values and beliefs do not make you unique....this is something you tell yourself to justify in your own head why you do not take the steps needed to fully detach and protect yourself...and by proxy your kids....from your nasty ex.


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## Otter326 (Jul 24, 2015)

LBHMidwest - I got the same email last fall. I got called a coward this spring for refusing to talk to her. I knew the email was junk but I let her get to me and I responded. Wasn't worth it. I ignored the coward comment this spring. I have practiced going dark off and on for the better part of the past year with mixed results. It was harder in the beginning. First she yelled at me and threatened to take me to court. Then she tried being nice but that scared me even more so I didn't respond to that at all. Her emails and texts have lessened to an extent over the past 6 months. I just wondered if there was a better method out there. At leas

Also, I thought long and hard about your question regarding the 20 women paragraph. You are correct, she isn't what I am looking for this time around.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Did you read ReGroup's thread?


Wonder how he's doing?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Did you read ReGroup's thread?
> 
> 
> Wonder how he's doing?


I asked Conrad about Regroup about 6 months ago (post Conrad ban). 

His response verbatim?

"Swinging from the chandeliers with hot women in NYC."

So it seems he is doing just fine...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Otter,

You think about your crazy ex way too much.

You need to work out, get into your hobbies and socialze more.

You have your kids 50 percent of he time, so you have plenty of free time.

Get to it.

There is no use idealizing how perfect marriage can last a lifetime. Look at the Clintons. I'm no fan of that cheater Bill but why would he want to hang out Hillary? She's very annoying. Your ex is no doubt similar. Vain, self important.

Find a kind and decent girlfriend who bakes a mean apple pie and likes kids.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi Otter,

As to her question what does he give her. An echo chamber filed with praise and right ons. They are in a professional world that has created it's own bubble universe. Any idea or person that suggest a concept that is not in accord is greeted disdain and hatred and s destroyed by a frenzied mob. They are experts at pycho babble. And it works in their world because our society let's them do it. Extreme example, try teaching women's rights in an area controlled by ISIS. 

You do need a mentor to help you learn to deal with her world. The example you gave about her response to your daughter is frightening. 

Otter what field are you in. I get a sense you meant in college were she was an education major and you were an accounting major. If so start treating her like a db IRS agent. (actually my SIL a CPA always found them to be very straight up). You just got a bad one.


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