# Wife talking to an ex - with a lot of history



## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

My wife (N) and I (both 38) have been married for almost 10 years. We have 4 children together. She was always close with the father of an ex and he recently passed away. The Ex then reached out to N and they have been Facebook messaging constantly for the past 3 weeks. This is a guy who cheated on her, lied to her, and when he got back from the military went to his other girls first. There has been no contact between the two of them for over 15 years. I only met him once when N and I started dating, he happened to be at a line dancing place we went to and decided to cut in and push me out of the way, to which i responded by pushing him away and telling him to leave, which he did. Not the best first impression. 

Apparently he and N were best friends since kindergarten and started dating in high school. The relationship was very one-sided. When they were dating, N wasn't ready to sleep with him in high school, so he slept with another girl and then blamed it on N not being ready, for which N forgave him and for a while blamed herself, or at least convinced herself that was justified. N would be there for him and support him especially while he was going through issues with being away for the military. When he returned, he slept around before finally coming back to N and she kept taking him back. That happened with every deployment. He was manipulative and controlling from what N and her family has described. N's aunt even told me about how N always had a blind spot for him and she was afraid N would never leave him. She did finally leave him and met me a year or so later. We dated for 5 years then got married. 

Now, N has not lied to me, or mislead me about this, she did tell me she was talking to him and how often, she did not try to hide anything. She even lets me read any messages i want. It is all innocent chatter and their previous relationship has not come up at all. This guy is married but has no children. But they were talking on and off all day, everyday until 11:30 pm and sometimes later. I confronted my wife and said it was excessive and inappropriate, she agreed and she said she would limit the communication. She did for two days, then went right back to how it was. We have a very strong marriage and have weathered many storms together, that statistically, had a pretty good chance of breaking up a marriage. Triplets, financial issues, and my sometimes overbearing mother to name a few. As stupid as it sounds, I don't think she would physically cheat or leave me, I do trust her. Besides, the guy has gained probably 200 lbs since he was in the marines. But to N's aunt's point, N can be naïve and not realize when this guy is taking advantage of her good nature. 

My wife always told me how awful he was/is. Now she's all buddy buddy again. It almost like i am angry for her and i feel like she should still be angry for what this guy did. N says she wants answers to why he treated her so poorly and that she misses the friendship they had prior to dating, as well as she wants to help him through his fathers passing. But it's unsettling to me. I am not the jealous type, but this is a big change in the status quo of her thinking. I certainly don't want to be controlling and tell her not to have any contact, but this is definitely bothering me, and she knows it, but refuses to offer any solutions other than slowing done communication. Also, if anyone in her family finds out she's talking to him again, things would not be easy for her. They all hate him. They only communicate on facebook messaging and to my knowledge, they don't even have each others phone number. she has agreed to never see him in person, but he lives within a mile of our house, so if they continue to communicate, it is conceivable he could weasel a way see her. Do I support and trust her, or do I draw a line in the sand of no contact. Or any other advice would be appreciated! Thank you for reading this far!


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

*She knows this other man's nature and she has always taken him back previously.*

_N says she wants answers to why he treated her so poorly and that she misses the friendship they had prior to dating, as well as she wants to help him through his fathers passing. *But it's unsettling to me. *_Trust your gut. As to the answers your wife seeks, her friend behaved the way he did and treated her so poorly because he wanted to and he could. Each time she let him back into her life merely reinforced to him the power/influence he had over her.

_I confronted my wife and said it was excessive and inappropriate, she agreed and she said she would limit the communication. *She did for two days, then went right back to how it was. *_

Your wife is prioritizing this other man over your marriage. He only lives a mile away. Whether he gained 50lbs or 200lbs since she last saw him it won't matter *she will do what he asks.*

Draw your line in the sand.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Well, he was always a threat to your marriage.
Now, he is 200 pounds more of a threat.

It seems, your wife is loyal to a fault, to him, but not to you.
Shame on her.

She loves the guy, and that is all there is too it.

You dated her for 5 years and then married her?
That tells me she is lukewarm for you, hot for him.

And, damn-it, this skunk knows it.
Time for a talk, telling her to cease.

And, yell at this turd who thinks he does not stink.
Chase him off like the dirty dog he is.

All in all, your marriage is in deep trouble with her and this ex.
You must be decisive.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Here’s the thing: She started dating you only a year later and likely wasn’t over him. May never be. Give her real divorce papers and let her earn YOUR love back again. Right now, her Ex has it all. Let’s face it, she texts him more than you.

I hear a good book for your wife is “not just friends” by Shirley glass. I’d get her a copy snd if she’s not interested enough to read it, I’d hand her actual divorce papers. Why?

Because being in love with another man (and she is and will act on it soon if not already) should be a deal breaker.

nuclear option here is a must.

nicing her back or dealing with it in a Reasonable manner——- didn’t really work, did it. She’d be no contact with this guy or I’d bail if I were you. No contact and happy to be that way, or divorced, actually.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

He lives within a mile of your home? This is not something that you can just let fester. Affairs with an ex move very quickly. With them having such a long history, she is very vulnerable to developing feelings for him. Do not rest because he’s overweight. We have a ton of threads of BHs who’s WW betrayed them with a guy that was way below their husband in terms of appearance.

A very reasonable question is what on earth do you two have so much to talk about? I told you this was unacceptable behavior and you said it would stop and 2 days later you’re back at it. Why are you putting me in a situation that I have to either police you or silently swallow the disrespect that you’re showing me?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

njdad83 said:


> We have a very strong marriage


no you don't. At least not now. She's getting emotionally involved with the guy again right in front of your eyes; whether their communications are kosher or not. You need to drive a line in the sands as an ultimatum, how she responds to it will tell you everything. You just can't force her to choose you and the marriage. The only thing you can do is to be ready and able to back up with actions your ultimatum. Do it dude, why get into a protracted war of attrition where the outcome will always be the same. Get it over with NOW.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Wow thank you all for the fast replies! You're all telling me what my gut is telling me. It's hard to convey what we have been through and Why i feel we have strong marriage. But with those trials comes the longing for something easier, something reminiscent of a simpler time, like an ex from high school. I will say the reason we dated for so long is more because i wasn't ready for marriage. She was pretty patient with me while she waited. She was ready to get married at the 3 year mark and made no secret of it. aside from this she is also legit the perfect wife and takes great care of the kids. It's just hard to believe she could do this purposely. Before an ultimatum, were going to see a marriage counselor. I usually don't put much stock in counseling and have said before if you're there, its already over. Eating my words I guess. I'll give that a shot and see where it goes. Crazy part is this just happened to my friend almost exactly. Except it was a work friend not an old ex that crept into his wife's life. HE ignored it and joked about how close they were getting with all of us who told him to end it. He didnt listen, he trusted her, now they are divorced and fighting over the kids.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

“They’ve been friends since kindergarten...” 

As if this is a good reason to stay in touch with an ex. You simply need to say this isn’t something you want in your life. And if she continues to talk in word salads so she can keep this guy in her life, you will likely need to divorce her. Ugh, four kids though. 😔 So sorry you’re dealing with this right now.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Just to add to the chorus. She needs to go 100% no contact. Making contact due to the father dying was not inappropriate, but it should have ended quickly. She CANNOT remain friends with this person and should have zero contact. You will regret anything else. He doesn't belong in your life or hers. If needed, use her families dislike of him to your advantage, but you shouldn't have to. She should want to cut ties forever.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

njdad83 said:


> Wow thank you all for the fast replies! You're all telling me what my gut is telling me. It's hard to convey what we have been through and Why i feel we have strong marriage. But with those trials comes the longing for something easier, something reminiscent of a simpler time, like an ex from high school. I will say the reason we dated for so long is more because i wasn't ready for marriage. She was pretty patient with me while she waited. She was ready to get married at the 3 year mark and made no secret of it. aside from this she is also legit the perfect wife and takes great care of the kids. It's just hard to believe she could do this purposely. Before an ultimatum, were going to see a marriage counselor. I usually don't put much stock in counseling and have said before if you're there, its already over. Eating my words I guess. I'll give that a shot and see where it goes. Crazy part is this just happened to my friend almost exactly. Except it was a work friend not an old ex that crept into his wife's life. HE ignored it and joked about how close they were getting with all of us who told him to end it. He didnt listen, he trusted her, now they are divorced and fighting over the kids.


so the guy jump to your life and now is costing you money to pay for counseling because you cant say No ?

it is simple, you say it is either us or him?
no questions asked, and let her know if she talk to him again you are filing for a divorce


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

njdad83 said:


> going to see a marriage counselor


be careful, very careful with "marriage Counselors" a lot of these quacks are just that, quacks. They may ultimately be very detrimental to the relationship with some of their quack ideas. So be prepare, any gut feelings about them, immediately, just stop sessions with that counselor.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Not sure what MC will do at all, why is it needed? You said you had a good marriage. 
She needs to stop the communication. She is playing with fire. Its not appropriate for a married person to act that way.
As for you, ask her to stop the communication. Its simple.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

you marriage is definitely crowed, but i suspect she is in her own fog, reliving with him the best of their relationship not the worst. Now you can sit and wait for her to get out of the fog or you can sit her down and tell her that your patience is wearing thin and if she keeps it up you will be speaking to a divorce lawyer....also i would reach out to his wife and see if she knows what is going on. Granted your wife might get pissed about that. 

I would ask her is it would be okay to find an old flame or new woman to talk all the time and see if she is okay with that...that will tell you a lot about where her thinking is.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

blackclover3 said:


> it is simple, you say it is either us or him?
> no questions asked, and let her know if she talk to him again you are filing for a divorce


This. It's this simple. This is what I would do. No doubts about it.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

njdad83 said:


> Wow thank you all for the fast replies! You're all telling me what my gut is telling me. It's hard to convey what we have been through and Why i feel we have strong marriage. But with those trials comes the longing for something easier, something reminiscent of a simpler time, like an ex from high school. I will say the reason we dated for so long is more because i wasn't ready for marriage. She was pretty patient with me while she waited. She was ready to get married at the 3 year mark and made no secret of it. aside from this she is also legit the perfect wife and takes great care of the kids. It's just hard to believe she could do this purposely. Before an ultimatum, were going to see a marriage counselor. I usually don't put much stock in counseling and have said before if you're there, its already over. Eating my words I guess. I'll give that a shot and see where it goes. Crazy part is this just happened to my friend almost exactly. Except it was a work friend not an old ex that crept into his wife's life. HE ignored it and joked about how close they were getting with all of us who told him to end it. He didnt listen, he trusted her, now they are divorced and fighting over the kids.


Many of us who have been betrayed also thought we had a strong marriage. That is why infidelity hurts like hell.
Trust your gut. Being on Facebook is not good either. I can tell horror stories of several people i know who had long-term marriages come to a screeching halt as their spouse hooked up with an old love on facebook.

My honest take is this. Your wife has feelings for this “turd”, and from what you post he appears to be a self-centered narcissistic jerk. I will be you $100 dollars right now he is working to get in your wife’s pants, probably plying her with an enormous amount of compliments, which are feeding her ego. (Ego kibbles I once noted as these being referred to by another poster on here). She is enjoying the banter back and forth on Facebook. I will be he has also reached out to her on messenger as well as text and phone calls.

What I would do is go total “caveman” and forbid her from contact with this guy as you feel uncomfortable and secondly contact the POS and tell him no longer to contact your wife. I would also ask to see all communications between your wife and POS/Snake. If she refuses or feels it is an invasion of privacy you have your answer as to what has been transpiring or is likely to occur. Check your cellular phone bill,too.

Do not try to simply explain this away, thinking your wife would never cheat. I did, thinking my wife would never step outside of our marriage, and now I know better. Once burned, twice learned I am.

Do not assume! Read the F102 Cheaters Script it is somewhere on this site.

Knock your wife out of this fog **** NOW!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

njdad83 said:


> Wow thank you all for the fast replies! You're all telling me what my gut is telling me. It's hard to convey what we have been through and Why i feel we have strong marriage. But with those trials comes the longing for something easier, something reminiscent of a simpler time, like an ex from high school. I will say the reason we dated for so long is more because i wasn't ready for marriage. She was pretty patient with me while she waited. She was ready to get married at the 3 year mark and made no secret of it. aside from this she is also legit the perfect wife and takes great care of the kids. It's just hard to believe she could do this purposely. Before an ultimatum, were going to see a marriage counselor. I usually don't put much stock in counseling and have said before if you're there, its already over. Eating my words I guess. I'll give that a shot and see where it goes. Crazy part is this just happened to my friend almost exactly. Except it was a work friend not an old ex that crept into his wife's life. HE ignored it and joked about how close they were getting with all of us who told him to end it. He didnt listen, he trusted her, now they are divorced and fighting over the kids.


This doesn't require a marriage counselor in my opinion, unless there is something else going on. This really is simple as telling her that her is a bad man, should know it and is no friend of your marriage. Not to mention you are very uncomfortable with her lack of control and doing what she said she would do. Time to go cold turkey. No contact, choose the marriage or a friendship with a POS.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

N says *she wants answers to why he treated her so poorly and that she misses the friendship they had *prior to dating, as well as *she wants to help him through his fathers passing. *But it's unsettling to me. I am not the jealous type, but this is a big change in the status quo of her thinking. I certainly don't want to be controlling and tell her not to have any contact, but *this is definitely bothering me, and she knows it,* but refuses to offer any solutions other than slowing done communication. Also, *if anyone in her family finds out she's talking to him again, things would not be easy for her. They all hate him.

The above that you wrote is VERY disturbing. She is your wife and mother of your children. How he treated her in the past shouldn't matter to her anymore. But it sounds like she’s wanting closure, which is code for getting his approval. Then she wants to help him get over his dad’s passing. He has a wife to help with that. Besides, that’s a path to getting emotionally attached to him. (Florence Nightingale effect). Lastly that her family doesn’t approve is another issue. She’s like a rebellious teenager who’s sneaking out to be with her bad boy. *

I would inform her family about her actions. Also, I would confront this guy that the level of their interaction is inappropriate to put him on notice that you’re awake. Lastly, make sure his wife is aware of the level of their interactions. I doubt if any wife is ok with her husband spending so much time on social media with their ex.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Loverboy is using the death of his dad as an opportunity to worm his way back into your wife’s life. 200 more lbs means nothing, if your wife is as naive as she sounds, and Loverboy is as manipulative as he sounds, don’t under estimate the chance for pity sex to happen. Pretty sure you’re wife is already in a strong emotional affair.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

njdad83 said:


> Before an ultimatum, were going to see a marriage counselor. I usually don't put much stock in counseling and have said before if you're there, its already over. Eating my words I guess. I'll give that a shot and see where it goes.


^^This^^ puzzles me. Why spend $$ on a counselor? It sounds to me like you are coming at this from a position of weakness rather than strength. It also sounds like you are using counseling as a way to drag your feet on giving her an ultimatum. Maybe you're just scared to assert yourself, because you may not like her response,

Great marriage? Then, fine ... give her an ultimatum. She'll either quit all communication with this guy or she won't. You'll certainly save a lot of time and money.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

In addition to the above, I suggest you contact her XBF wife and let her know what’s going on.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

njdad83 said:


> Wow thank you all for the fast replies! You're all telling me what my gut is telling me. It's hard to convey what we have been through and Why i feel we have strong marriage. But with those trials comes the longing for something easier, something reminiscent of a simpler time, like an ex from high school. I will say the reason we dated for so long is more because i wasn't ready for marriage. She was pretty patient with me while she waited. She was ready to get married at the 3 year mark and made no secret of it. aside from this she is also legit the perfect wife and takes great care of the kids. It's just hard to believe she could do this purposely. Before an ultimatum, were going to see a marriage counselor. I usually don't put much stock in counseling and have said before if you're there, its already over. Eating my words I guess. I'll give that a shot and see where it goes. Crazy part is this just happened to my friend almost exactly. Except it was a work friend not an old ex that crept into his wife's life. HE ignored it and joked about how close they were getting with all of us who told him to end it. He didnt listen, he trusted her, now they are divorced and fighting over the kids.


I don’t think a marriage counselor will help if your wife stays in contact with him. Don’t feel guilty that you are not okay with her talking to her ex bf. It’s wrong and you shouldn’t feel like you owe her privacy or something because she was patient with you when you were dating.

I hope things work out for you, but she must have no contact with her ex bf. I’m cheering for you both.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Marriage counseling for a wife chasing her ex bf? Damn, you gotta show a little more strength. You said he pushed you out of the way on the dance floor and you shoved him off abd sent him packing once upon a time——-

Can we have that guy return and take care of business. I cannot stress enough that you need to show some strength and be willing to lose your marriage to save it. Every text or phone call she makes, she’s shoving you out abd inviting this guy into her heart. Even if she. Stops texting him today, she likely has lots of her ex occupying real estate in her mind. You might even just have one foot on the foul line in her mind at this point. I can’t over exaggerate how bad this situation is.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

njdad83 said:


> Why i feel we have strong marriage. But with those trials comes the longing for something easier,
> 
> Before an ultimatum, were going to see a marriage counselor. I usually don't put much stock in counseling and have said before if you're there, its already over. Eating my words I guess. I'll give that a shot and see where it goes. Crazy part is this just happened to my friend almost exactly. Except it was a work friend not an old ex that crept into his wife's life. HE ignored it and joked about how close they were getting with all of us who told him to end it. He didnt listen, he trusted her, now they are divorced and fighting over the kids.


Strong marriage? The trials that you’ve endured should make your bond stronger not make her yearn for an old boyfriend that mistreated her. 

How did marriage counseling get brought up and what are the grievances? The example of your friend should serve as a wake up call to take this very seriously and to convey the danger she is putting your marriage and family stability into.
I recommend that you BOTH read “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass. 

I hope you realize that we’re not being alarmist. Your wife is in the beginning stages of an EA. Left unchecked, this will graduate to light flirting, followed by starting to hide their communication. Her phone will all of a sudden have a new password that you’re not privy to and she will be clutching that phone very tightly. Then she will start to pick fights with you over very petty things. That is to make you the bad guy who doesn’t deserve loyalty and to avoid intimacy.

That they have that deep history and he’s only a mile away, means this can go real fast. We see many affairs with coworkers that are strangers when they started working together go sexual within a couple of months. That he was a childhood friend and then later a boyfriend that mistreated her, means they have the ability to have a deep bond and things can move at very fast speeds. The mistreating her is key. It has a similar effect to dumping her. Way too many women are impacted by such men for decades.

Like I said earlier. Do not for a second let his being overweight lull you to sleep. She’s obviously into him and is openly disrespecting the marriage by blowing off your concerns.


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

What jsmart said. Read it again. You know what is happening. You need to get out of the reactive mode and get ahead of this. Beware of the marriage counselor, they could say your wife has a right to a male friend. Your marriage is in jeopardy. You need to act. You need to be resolute and firm. This is a major boundary breach (at a minimum - sounds more like an emotional affair). The next step for them on this path is............. well you know.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

jsmart said:


> Strong marriage? The trials that you’ve endured should make your bond stronger not make her yearn for an old boyfriend that mistreated her.
> 
> How did marriage counseling get brought up and what are the grievances? The example of your friend should serve as a wake up call to take this very seriously and to convey the danger she is putting your marriage and family stability into.
> I recommend that you BOTH read “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass.
> ...


Yep. Easy future to predict here. Sadly


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Your wife is on a slippery slope. You have an intruder in your relationship.

You need to set a *firm boundary...* She can do as she likes, but you won't share your wife with another man. This is not to control her, it's to protect your marriage.

You're falling behind the curve and need to catch up on the subject. Read this... Not just "Friends"

Still relevant from a past member...

F-102 said:

I originally wrote it in response to one poster whose W had reconnected to an ex-BF on Facebook, and it outlined how it can go from "Hey, how's it going?" to "I hate my H's guts and I'm leaving him for you!"

Here's the unabridged version:

Right now, the texts/conversations may very well be just two old friends catching up but soon, if left unchecked, may very well morph into:

Their lives since they parted
Their relationships since they parted
Their families
Their spouses
You
How you're an excellent father
How you're a great husband
How you're a wonderful guy
Your job
How your job keeps you busy
How your job keeps you away
How she sometimes feels a little lonely when you're away
How she sometimes feels a little overburdened at home
How she sometimes feels a little taken for granted
How she feels that you don't ALWAYS listen to her
How she feels that you don't ALWAYS understand her
How she feels that sometimes you're just "not there" for her
How, okay... you're not ALWAYS such a wonderful guy
How she loved hearing from him again
How she looks forward to his texts/calls/e-mails now
How she feels young again
How she feels appreciated again
How she feels attractive again
How it's so nice to have someone who just LISTENS to her again
How it's been so, so long since you made her feel that way
How her eyes have now been opened
How she now realizes what she truly wants and needs
How she now realizes that you could NEVER give her that
How insensitive you can be some times
How you can be a real jerk sometimes
How she wonders if they would have stayed together
How she now realizes that she never really loved you
How she now realizes that she really loved him all along
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How you're the biggest a++hole she's ever known
How you're standing in the way of her true happiness
How you ruined her life
How she made a big mistake marrying you
How she made an even bigger mistake letting him go
How now she sees that they were really meant to be together
How she desperately has to get away from you
How she's definitely going to leave you
How she's talking to divorce lawyers
How they're going to live happily ever after...

...get the picture?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Maybe his penis has not entered her vagina yet. But Can you guarantee with 100% certainty that you will never make her mad or annoy her or disappoint her or have a fight or that she will ever feel bored or lonely? 

Because what is happening here is she is warming him up on deck to make him her go-to should you ever anger her, bore her, disappoint you etc. 

He will be right there ready to crawl into bed the moment she ever finds herself frustrated, angry, disappointed or bored with you.

Can you guarantee her complete and utter satisfaction 24/7 for the next 40 years, because she has him on the immediate launch pad the moment she does.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

You do not need a goddamn marriage counselor only a set of balls. You know what needs to be done. Now do it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

@anchorwatch that was an EXCELLENT post. That communication evolution you gave is so typical and very likely, especially in a situation like this. 

@oldshirt you have hit the nail on the head too. I can predict that if this budding EA is not completely squashed, she will run to him to complain about her husband for being controlling or a jerk after an argument and he will be ready on deck to portray himself as the exact opposite. The If you were my girl, routine. I know everyone remembers Cici’s mr perfect.

I really hope OP finds the strength to lay down the law. You can continue in the destructive path with your old boyfriend l but you can’t do it as my wife. You really need to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. All of a sudden their marriage needs counseling? No, she is wrecking the marriage.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Damn you have got my Scots Irish up. Blow this **** up Now!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

njdad83 said:


> She did for two days, then went right back to how it was.


Call her on this -- and EVERY time it happens. And it should NOT happen any more. Consoling him for the loss of the father -- OK. BUT that is talking to him once or twice. She hasn't seen him in 15 YEARS, so they are NOT close and nothing more than a comment or two is required.


njdad83 said:


> . N says she wants answers to why he treated her so poorly and that she misses the friendship they had prior to dating, as well as she wants to help him through his fathers passing


She will NEVER get answers from him -- and she should NOT be discussing that relationship with him. Here's her answer -- because he's and asshole. She is married to you and her having that close relationship with him is NOT supportive of a good marriage. 


njdad83 said:


> Also, if anyone in her family finds out she's talking to him again, things would not be easy for her. They all hate him.


Tell her family that she is doing this -- they can help you bring her back to reality.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

OP better wake up. MC? There may be more going on than he has posted. I do not see this story having a happy ending. I hope I am wrong.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

OP,

One must be willing to lose their marriage to save it.

I'm sorry you're in this boat, it sucks, it hurts, it's shaking your foundation etc. I, like so many on this sub, have been cheated on. I and many others have been in your shoes. Cheating starts somewhere and your wife is on the road to cheating. Will she get there? I don't know, but she IS on the road to cheating.

Again, this sucks but you can't just stick your head in the sand and rug sweep this.

It's time to deal with reality.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

She has unfinished businesses with him. She wants to be accepted again by a person that rejected her with his cheating.

There is nothing good that will come from this.

This is an EA.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

anchorwatch said:


> Your wife is on a slippery slope. You have an intruder in your relationship.
> 
> You need to set a *firm boundary...* She can do as she likes, but you won't share your wife with another man. This is not to control her, it's to protect your marriage.
> 
> ...


You nailed. Damn it is F102 not 104! Turning 60 sucks


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> You do not need a goddamn marriage counselor only a set of balls.


I have to agree with this. 

Counseling helps people improve their communication so they are better able to express their needs and boundaries etc and find more constructive means of conflict resolution.

Counseling cannot change bad character or selfishness or make an alpha widow hung up on an old BF not be hung up on him. 

If you do not have an underlying relationship issue like poor communication or bad conflict resolution skills, counseling probably won’t help you much.

Balls on the other hand will come in quite handy and will be necessary to get you through this with any dignity left.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

We’re just friends is the biggest lie told here. Hopefully you’ll wake up. 
MC sounds like an excuse because you can’t do what’s needed.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Update:
Thank you all for the replies. Kudos to all those calling me out for being too sheepish, gold stars for all of you. Truth is, I thought giving her a firm no would be controlling and i've never been that way. So initially (a few days ago) I said, "slow down communication, it bothers me, but do what makes you happy" I did not set clear boundaries as to what "slow down" meant. I could not have been more wrong. 

Last night we had a conversation where i let my emotions out, something i rarely do. I am always patient, understanding and trusting. I rarely lose my temper, even with four kids running amuck! But, there was too much of a risk here to let it go. I went "full caveman" as a reply above stated and laid it all out. I did not give her an ultimatum in the form of us or him, but i explained just talking to him put a rift in our marriage and endangers everything we have built. Trust is already shaken. She has proven how easily he could slip back in and regain her trust. The "fog", as a previous reply said, that she was in as a result of her ex's fathers death, put her in a vulnerable state and the ex swooped in to take advantage of it. Their history is too great and their friendship previously led to a relationship because he manipulated her into it. I reminded her how he used her originally and how he was doing it again and told her this was my way of protecting her if she wouldn't protect herself. I also reminded her that relationship caused her a lot of stress, trust issues and anxiety that she still deals with. I still don't believe she would have cheated on her own accord, however, I do believe the risk of her not realizing what he was trying to do until it was too late would have been a real possibility. I got angry, I got loud and I told her nothing would stop me from ending their communication. I have read too many posts on here, prior to posting my own question because i thought it was unique, to think playing the nice guy will work. (news flash, the answer is always the same no matter what the individual circumstances are) Post after post, OPs don't take the advice and forgive and trust and then when something serious happens, they forgive again and try to hold on, but then its too late. 

Upon learning my true feelings bout it, she immediately said she would stop talking to him without so much as a single word of defense. She said she did not understand how much it bothered me and in her mind it was simply her trying to reconnect with a friend who had reached out in a time of need. She was very upset for how she made me feel and scared it would affect how i felt about her and whether i could trust her. But I told her in reality she had done nothing wrong... yet. She had been honest with me, she had told me they were talking, i read all their messages before she knew i was spying and all were innocent. I even checked phone records to see if they called on the phone or texted and his number was not in her phone or her phone records. (I found the number through instant checkmate and did not tell her i was checking that). The communication had to stop because it could lead to her doing something wrong and the risk to us was not worth the gain of her getting her answers or her old friend back, she agreed. While she still said it would never have led to anything inappropriate, the answers she was looking for were not worth losing what we have. She was very upset for how she made me feel and agreed if the shoe were on the other foot, i would have been sleeping at a friends house for just doing what she did. She said in the 15 years we've been together she has never seen me so emotional, shaken or angry. I told her there was nothing that has happened in all my life that caused me to feel like this. 

She sent a final message to him last night in front of me saying that they will no longer be talking and blocked him on messenger. While i am certain this is the end of it, I will still keep my ears up. However, I explained how much i love her, the lengths I am willing to go in order to keep this marriage together and the level of aggression i would bring to that fight. I was very ready to go to his house and stop it that way if she wouldn't, which i admitted to her after she decided to stop talking to him. 

To anyone searching these threads for answers, the answer is always the same: Even if it seems innocent - Trust your gut, fight now, fight hard and do not take any excuses, this is all or nothing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Have to told her to stop talking to him on Whatsapp too?


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

anchorwatch said:


> Your wife is on a slippery slope. You have an intruder in your relationship.
> 
> You need to set a *firm boundary...* She can do as she likes, but you won't share your wife with another man. This is not to control her, it's to protect your marriage.
> 
> ...


i came across your post before posting my thread and it one shook me to the core. I also read a few posts from the "other men" posting about how easy it was to manipulate a married woman into cheating. Scary stuff. No tolerance!


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Have to told her to stop talking to him on Whatsapp too?


 she doesnt have that on her phone, she did have snapchat, but they were not friends on snapchat. She also didnt use it for anythign so she deleted her snapchat app from her phone.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

njdad83 said:


> she doesnt have that on her phone, she did have snapchat, but they were not friends on snapchat. She also didnt use it for anythign so she deleted her snapchat app from her phone.


there are lots of secret messaging apps... I just hope this is not the case...


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> We’re just friends is the biggest lie told here. Hopefully you’ll wake up.
> MC sounds like an excuse because you can’t do what’s needed.


the MC is someone I know and trust. But absolutely not needed. It was an excuse to put the burden of telling my wife she is wrong on someone else. Better to do it myself as previous replies have said.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> there are lots of secret messaging apps... I just hope this is not the case...


I am a very thorough person, i went through every app on her phone before she knew i was looking. There was nothing on there that i did not recognize. I checked the app store history as well, we both have all each others passwords for everything. Shes pretty technologically incompetent. Im always fixing her phone settings or reconnecting her watch. I appreciate your concern, but I have this angle covered.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

njdad83 said:


> Update:
> Thank you all for the replies. Kudos to all those calling me out for being too sheepish, gold stars for all of you. Truth is, I thought giving her a firm no would be controlling and i've never been that way. So initially (a few days ago) I said, "slow down communication, it bothers me, but do what makes you happy" I did not set clear boundaries as to what "slow down" meant. I could not have been more wrong.
> 
> Last night we had a conversation where i let my emotions out, something i rarely do. I am always patient, understanding and trusting. I rarely lose my temper, even with four kids running amuck! But, there was too much of a risk here to let it go. I went "full caveman" as a reply above stated and laid it all out. I did not give her an ultimatum in the form of us or him, but i explained just talking to him put a rift in our marriage and endangers everything we have built. Trust is already shaken. She has proven how easily he could slip back in and regain her trust. The "fog", as a previous reply said, that she was in as a result of her ex's fathers death, put her in a vulnerable state and the ex swooped in to take advantage of it. Their history is too great and their friendship previously led to a relationship because he manipulated her into it. I reminded her how he used her originally and how he was doing it again and told her this was my way of protecting her if she wouldn't protect herself. I also reminded her that relationship caused her a lot of stress, trust issues and anxiety that she still deals with. I still don't believe she would have cheated on her own accord, however, I do believe the risk of her not realizing what he was trying to do until it was too late would have been a real possibility. I got angry, I got loud and I told her nothing would stop me from ending their communication. I have read too many posts on here, prior to posting my own question because i thought it was unique, to think playing the nice guy will work. (news flash, the answer is always the same no matter what the individual circumstances are) Post after post, OPs don't take the advice and forgive and trust and then when something serious happens, they forgive again and try to hold on, but then its too late.
> ...


This is good news.
Good news is not always the true reality on any matter.

Reality is a snapshot in time.
Reality entails those facts and circumstances, as seen through _your own_ means and lenses.
We are limited in what we know.
We rely on our own senses and logic, and on the facts available, those taken in, and presented to us.

And, time and circumstances can, and do change.

Keep up your (secret) monitoring for at least a year, um, un-ending.
Their relationship will only go dormant......again.

It will die when one of them sees that 6 feet of dirt covering them.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

njdad83 said:


> I am a very thorough person, i went through every app on her phone before she knew i was looking. There was nothing on there that i did not recognize. I checked the app store history as well, we both have all each others passwords for everything. Shes pretty technologically incompetent. Im always fixing her phone settings or reconnecting her watch. I appreciate your concern, but I have this angle covered.


Great to hear!


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow @njdad83 I am so happy you finally had your confrontation. A situation like yours was very precarious and demanded a strong response. We see over and over the understanding and high road approach gets husbands the opposite reaction they are hoping for. I strongly advise you take a zero tolerance for any breaches of communication with him. With him being so close, you cannot let your guard down for a while.

Also, don’t let her off the hook to easily with assuring her that it’s all good now. She needs to deeply understand that this guy is off limits. They were not friends for 15 years. No reason to start again. She paid her respects. Now it’s back to life with her husband and family. Besides, the guy has his own wife to help him with his grief. Her responsibility is to you and your kids. 

You should take this opportunity to up your relationship. Make sure you’re being the husband she needs and the father your kids need. Also , get your but to the gym or working out. Basically up your game across the board. Not just for her but for yourself. Use this as wake up call to work on being a better version of yourself.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

njdad83 said:


> Update:
> Thank you all for the replies. Kudos to all those calling me out for being too sheepish, gold stars for all of you. Truth is, I thought giving her a firm no would be controlling and i've never been that way. So initially (a few days ago) I said, "slow down communication, it bothers me, but do what makes you happy" I did not set clear boundaries as to what "slow down" meant. I could not have been more wrong.
> 
> Last night we had a conversation where i let my emotions out, something i rarely do. I am always patient, understanding and trusting. I rarely lose my temper, even with four kids running amuck! But, there was too much of a risk here to let it go. I went "full caveman" as a reply above stated and laid it all out. I did not give her an ultimatum in the form of us or him, but i explained just talking to him put a rift in our marriage and endangers everything we have built. Trust is already shaken. She has proven how easily he could slip back in and regain her trust. The "fog", as a previous reply said, that she was in as a result of her ex's fathers death, put her in a vulnerable state and the ex swooped in to take advantage of it. Their history is too great and their friendship previously led to a relationship because he manipulated her into it. I reminded her how he used her originally and how he was doing it again and told her this was my way of protecting her if she wouldn't protect herself. I also reminded her that relationship caused her a lot of stress, trust issues and anxiety that she still deals with. I still don't believe she would have cheated on her own accord, however, I do believe the risk of her not realizing what he was trying to do until it was too late would have been a real possibility. I got angry, I got loud and I told her nothing would stop me from ending their communication. I have read too many posts on here, prior to posting my own question because i thought it was unique, to think playing the nice guy will work. (news flash, the answer is always the same no matter what the individual circumstances are) Post after post, OPs don't take the advice and forgive and trust and then when something serious happens, they forgive again and try to hold on, but then its too late.
> ...


I am so glad to hear you took a solid stand on this. It sounds like you really opened up and clearly expressed the gravity of the situation. Given that she wasn't trying to hide anything on her phone I think she is being truthful in saying that it would never have led to anything inappropriate. However, as you've said this guy is a manipulator and has done it to her in the past. She could have been into a compromising situation before even fully realizing it and it may have been too late. Much better to address this sooner than later.

As other have said, it would still be a good idea to keep an eye on things for a while, but it really seems like this has been handled.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It sounds as if you have a good marriage and she has acknowledged your fear over her contact with her ex boyfriend. I doubt she will start it up again. It's good that you nipped anything in the bud.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

njdad83 said:


> I also read a few posts from the "other men" posting about how easy it was to manipulate a married woman into cheating.


You need to read again and redo your understanding of what you said above really means.

It means that a married woman that is this easily manipulated into cheating is a woman that for whatever reasons her marriage is not all well (at least from her part), and will make all and any kind of excuses to succumb to the advances. A woman that is "in love" with, and respects her husband and the marriage, will not be manipulated into cheating. That's a fact. So many men in their misguided sense of embarrassment and weakness want immediately to deflect the blame towards the "other" man. He's the bad, bad wolf, disguised in sheep's clothes because the poor, innocent, tender fragile damsel in distress couldn't in any way be able to defend herself, and not to succumb to his huffin' N puffin'. That's nothing but pure boloney. Those women can blame it on a red moon and the bad wolf that made them do it, the reality is they did it because they wanted it. Is as simple as that. So, please, let's not go into it was the "other" man who made her do it. Rubbish.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> This is good news.
> Good news is not always the true reality on any matter.
> 
> Reality is a snapshot in time.
> ...


Believe me when i say i understand your point. I've seen it happen to a very close friend and out of the 5 or 6 people i talk to frequently, 3 of them are divorced. There will always be a voice in my head wondering what if. But based on her reaction when she found out how i really felt and the look on her face, I don't think I need to worry now or ever. That doesn't mean I'm going to put my head in the sand. I am going to work on our marriage and being there when she needs me making sure the flame never waivers. I don't think this was her looking for something else, it was her doing what she always does, be a good friend when someone is in need whether they deserve it or not, but it was still scary as hell. I may have dodged a bullet thanks to the good advice on this forum, but the gun could still be loaded.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> You need to read again and redo your understanding of what you said above really means.
> 
> It means that a married woman that is this easily manipulated into cheating is a woman that for whatever reasons her marriage is not all well (at least from her part), and will make all and any kind of excuses to succumb to the advances. A woman that is "in love" with, and respects her husband and the marriage, will not be manipulated into cheating. That's a fact. So many men in their misguided sense of embarrassment and weakness want immediately to deflect the blame towards the "other" man. He's the bad, bad wolf, disguised in sheep's clothes because the poor, innocent, tender fragile damsel in distress couldn't in any way be able to defend herself, and not to succumb to his huffin' N puffin'. That's nothing but pure boloney. Those women can blame it on a red moon and the bad wolf that made them do it, the reality is they did it because they wanted it. Is as simple as that. So, please, let's not go into it was the "other" man who made her do it. Rubbish.


Agreed, if she cheated it woud be her fault, not his and it would be beyond repair. But i dont think my wife is in that category. THat was more a general statement and somthing that scared me into action based on what ifs rather than reality. The fact that she was so honest right from the get go about the conversations and never tried to hide any of it makes me believe her intentions were noble, regardless of how naïve she was being. She even admitted she could see my point and once she understood how i was thinking completely agreed. Her problem is she only sees the good in people and makes excuses for the bad. She did that for me and brought me out of a dark place when we met, its part of what i love about her.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> Wow @njdad83 I am so happy you finally had your confrontation. A situation like yours was very precarious and demanded a strong response. We see over and over the understanding and high road approach gets husbands the opposite reaction they are hoping for. I strongly advise you take a zero tolerance for any breaches of communication with him. With him being so close, you cannot let your guard down for a while.
> 
> Also, don’t let her off the hook to easily with assuring her that it’s all good now. She needs to deeply understand that this guy is off limits. They were not friends for 15 years. No reason to start again. She paid her respects. Now it’s back to life with her husband and family. Besides, the guy has his own wife to help him with his grief. Her responsibility is to you and your kids.
> 
> You should take this opportunity to up your relationship. Make sure you’re being the husband she needs and the father your kids need. Also , get your but to the gym or working out. Basically up your game across the board. Not just for her but for yourself. Use this as wake up call to work on being a better version of yourself.


Her and i both agreed on the zero contact zero tolerance. She said she appreciated how clear i was and reiterated how she thought our marriage was better because of it. She appreciated the direct stance. 

AS much as I know a lot of people on this site will say this had nothing to do with me and was all her. I agree with them and you. I constantly work on my self and our marriage, as does she. I still get her flowers randomly and still treat her like a queen. I am in pretty good shape and train in aikido, (hence not really worrying about the confrontation with an overweight ex marine I regularly do tough mudders, run and workout. I'm self employed, work from home and have a good work life balance, always here when the kids need something or she needs help. One can always improve, and that's always been my goal.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

njdad83 said:


> Her and i both agreed on the zero contact zero tolerance.


just a reminder, trust but verify. I do understand that so many women are very trusting and naive, and in average most women have no intentions to "anything" and whatsoever, but still one's can't be so trusty. 
In my marriage, I have absolute trust in my wife. That doesn't mean that I'm blinded into believing "not her", "not my wife". Anyone, at any moment, given the right situation can kill, but you would say "him/her"?, I can't believe it!!!


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

njdad83 said:


> Her and i both agreed on the zero contact zero tolerance. *She said she appreciated how clear i was and reiterated how she thought our marriage was better because of it*. She appreciated the direct stance.
> 
> AS much as I know a lot of people on this site will say this had nothing to do with me and was all her. I agree with them and you. *I constantly work on my self and our marriage, as does she. I still get her flowers randomly and still treat her like a queen. I am in pretty good shape and train in aikido, (hence not really worrying about the confrontation with an overweight ex marine I regularly do tough mudders, run and workout.* I'm self employed, work from home and have a good work life balance, always here when the kids need something or she needs help. One can always improve, and that's always been my goal.


Man, this brought a big smile to my face. I’m getting a good feeling about your situation now. Strong and direct wins over nice and flexible in situations like this.

I hope you stick around on TAM. You will be able to pay it forward to another person who’s in despair and needs an example like yours. As a matter of fact, we have another thread that I hope that poster is reading your thread for how to move forward in his situation.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> Man, this brought a big smile to my face. I’m getting a good feeling about your situation now. Strong and direct wins over nice and flexible in situations like this.
> 
> I hope you stick around on TAM. You will be able to pay it forward to another person who’s in despair and needs an example like yours. As a matter of fact, we have another thread that I hope that poster is reading your thread for how to move forward in his situation.



I appreciate that! I have to stick around and help who i can. I feel like posters "single" handedly gave me the confidence to take the bull by the horns and not worry about if i looked like i was being too controlling. I will look for his thread and see if i can add, but all the posters have been great! 

Funny story, i did tell her i was posting since her and I figured this out last night. I half expected her to be mad that i was airing our dirty laundry, but she has read through it all and she now feels even worse. She wants to sign on as well and start giving her two cents to see if she can help other people in the position she accidentally put me in!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

njdad83 said:


> I appreciate that! I have to stick around and help who i can. I feel like posters "single" handedly gave me the confidence to take the bull by the horns and not worry about if i looked like i was being too controlling. I will look for his thread and see if i can add, but all the posters have been great!
> 
> Funny story, i did tell her i was posting since her and I figured this out last night. I half expected her to be mad that i was airing our dirty laundry, but she has read through it all and she now feels even worse. She wants to sign on as well and start giving her two cents to see if she can help other people in the position she accidentally put me in!


That’s great that you’re both turning the corner


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

njdad83 said:


> My wife (N) and I (both 38) have been married for almost 10 years. We have 4 children together. She was always close with the father of an ex and he recently passed away. The Ex then reached out to N and they have been Facebook messaging constantly for the past 3 weeks. This is a guy who cheated on her, lied to her, and when he got back from the military went to his other girls first. There has been no contact between the two of them for over 15 years. I only met him once when N and I started dating, he happened to be at a line dancing place we went to and decided to cut in and push me out of the way, to which i responded by pushing him away and telling him to leave, which he did. Not the best first impression.
> 
> Apparently he and N were best friends since kindergarten and started dating in high school. The relationship was very one-sided. When they were dating, N wasn't ready to sleep with him in high school, so he slept with another girl and then blamed it on N not being ready, for which N forgave him and for a while blamed herself, or at least convinced herself that was justified. N would be there for him and support him especially while he was going through issues with being away for the military. When he returned, he slept around before finally coming back to N and she kept taking him back. That happened with every deployment. He was manipulative and controlling from what N and her family has described. N's aunt even told me about how N always had a blind spot for him and she was afraid N would never leave him. She did finally leave him and met me a year or so later. We dated for 5 years then got married.
> 
> ...


This might be unpopular, but if my wife pulled that ****, she'd be out the door. I **** you not, she would have been out the door if she was messaging any dude on Facebook, especially an ex. For the life of me, I cannot understand how so many marriages have zero boundaries; truly baffling. You guys can say all the crap you want about "controlling" bs, but I also know if I was messaging an ex, my wife would have also kicked my butt to the curb. Those are just the simplest of boundaries.

OP is going to be on here talking about "how can my wife do this to me" and chronicling the divorce all because he didn't have a spine to put up proper boundaries....incredible.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Great job on standing up for your marriage! Taking a direct course of action is so much better than sitting around, waiting for a spouse to get it on their own.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> This might be unpopular, but if my wife pulled that **, she'd be out the door. I ** you not, she would have been out the door if she was messaging any dude on Facebook, especially an ex. For the life of me, I cannot understand how so many marriages have zero boundaries; truly baffling. You guys can say all the crap you want about "controlling" bs, but I also know if I was messaging an ex, my wife would have also kicked my butt to the curb. Those are just the simplest of boundaries.
> 
> OP is going to be on here talking about "how can my wife do this to me" and chronicling the divorce all because he didn't have a spine to put up proper boundaries....incredible.


dude you are brutal. but absolutely correct. read my update though we're good.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Women say a lot of stuff when they’re busted, but do exactly as you said and keep an eye out for alternate, hidden ways of. Communication.

It’s like an addiction. This is extremely hard to break. I hope your wife is being straightforward with you.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Women say a lot of stuff when they’re busted, but do exactly as you said and keep an eye out for alternate, hidden ways of. Communication.
> 
> It’s like an addiction. This is extremely hard to break. I hope your wife is being straightforward with you.


I’m just another voice adding to the choir…

These things are freakin’ hard to break… eyes wide open OP.

Its really good news, very encouraging right now. But the daily routines of connection and communication are hard to cut. Like @Evinrude58 said…think of it like an addiction.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

@njdad83 Maybe I missed it, but have they ever had sex before? You said she wasn't ready in high school, but did she ever admit to sleeping with him later in the relationship?


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> @njdad83 Maybe I missed it, but have they ever had sex before? You said she wasn't ready in high school, but did she ever admit to sleeping with him later in the relationship?


they had sex back then after he got back from his first deployment. They were in a relationship for a few years, although she was the only one in an actual relationship. He treated her like second fiddle.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

SO another update. I humbly request that judgment is not placed on my wife or myself for the following. I know its an issue and we are working on it. I'm not asking for advice, opinion or sympathy, I just put this up to help anyone else who is going through something similar by letting them know how we are working it out. Please, no brutal responses either and please don't badmouth my wife, she is doing the best she can. 

She and I have continued to talk about this over the past few days. Even though she has stopped communication, she told me it was hard for her to do and that she would need time to put it behind her. She has not been angry at me or resentful for this at all, but she has been sad. She feels like she is losing the friendship all over again. Which i saw as ridiculous and hurtful, but I heard her out and tried to put myself in her shoes. 

We've narrowed it down to the fact she never had any trustworthy men in her life. Her father always called her and her brother "her mothers kids" and didn't give her the time of day. Her brother was a complete ass to her growing up and both physically and mentally abusive towards her. For the most part, that is also the type she dated. Her brother has toned down now and I have a good relationship with him and my wife's family. She is not in contact with any of her other ex's except for one other who i like a lot. Her family has not shown any of their former habits around me and I would not let that stand if they did. This ex was the first guy who showed any kind of attention towards my wife. Almost to the level of protective, when they were friends. That all changed when they started "dating" and he became controlling and emotionally abusive but she cant let go of the only guy in her life that was somewhat nice to her (relatively speaking) that she knew prior to them dating. That also explains why she held on to him for so long while he treated her so badly. She saw him as the friend and kept reasoning away his misdeeds. 

There are also things that my wife thinks i wont understand with how she grew up, but this ex does, because he had a hard life growing up as well. I grew up in a very loving, not wealthy, but well off family in a very nice town. She grew up in a family that was dysfunctional , secretive and cold, in a town akin to "the other side of the tracks". Her father mistreated her mother and them. She was always put down by her family. Her ex had a similar upbringing. AS I said in my OP, my wife had a close relationship with this ex's father, the reason being she had no relationship with her own. The second conflict is: My family, though very loving, can be very overbearing for someone who is not used to it. Early in our marriage when we had our first son, my mother infiltrated every aspect of our lives and regardless of what my wife would want, my mother would do as she pleased. It took me way too long to put an end to it because i was too uncomfortable putting my mother in her place. I finally did and sat everyone down together to tell them what needed to change, then made sure they followed through. To this day my mother still occasionally tries to impose her will, but i shut it down. Its is not even a big deal anymore and i guess it should not have been back then for me to speak up. But, I found out that has bothered my wife until this day. The third main conflict, was the ex's father. It had been a weird relationship and my wife knew i did not always approve of the way he talked to her. I had a conversation with him about it and was better, but not where i wanted it to be. I let it go though, and she appreciated that. Since he has passed, there is a hole. My wife did not think she could talk about missing the ex's father with me, because of how i felt about that relationship. But she could certainly talk to her ex about it. AS ridiculous as this all sounds to me, thinking about it from my perspective, if I put myself in her shoes i can begin to understand. 

Our conversations about this ex, my wife's feelings, and mine, have brought us much closer. I found out she has always felt like I would eventually leave her, because she felt she was not good enough, like she was broken. That is how she has always been treated, and that is what she is used to. Even 15 years of me treating her like a queen didn't change it. She said nothing I did or said made her feel that way, she just always worried. In fact, the way I treated her made her feel like she did not deserve what we have. She told me that while dating, she was always getting herself ready for when i would break up with her. The fact that i took so long to propose did not help. Me going apeshit over this was the best thing that could have happened. She finally understands what she means to me and after our continued talks, we are in a great place. She wants to see a therapist to work through her abandonment and insecurity issues and asked that i go with her. She understands why she feels the way she feels and she knows she needs to get past it. I have never felt closer to her and she feels the same. 

This could have gone in a very different direction. We talked, we fought, we talked again. Originally I was pissed, but really just hurt, that she told me she missed talking to her ex and that it was hard for her. I didn't understand how talking to someone for a week or two after 15 years could bring back all that emotion. I could have just stayed angry and she could have just got defensive and kept her feelings in. Or lied to me about how she felt and let me believe she didnt care and all was good. But it wouldn't have been and it would have continued to bother her. I could have literally pushed her right back to the ex who would feign "understanding" how she felt and "be" there for her - like a snake in the grass. I did get lucky in that she cares as much as I do. In many of the posts i read on this site, one party was clearly interested in saving the marriage and the other clearly was not. In that situation there is not much you can do. While this was not anywhere near a marriage ender, and certainly not anywhere near as bad as most of the other posts I have read, this could have been the seed. Thank you all for your comments and concerns. Happy Trails!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

njdad83 said:


> SO another update. I humbly request that judgment is not placed on my wife or myself for the following. I know its an issue and we are working on it. I'm not asking for advice, opinion or sympathy, I just put this up to help anyone else who is going through something similar by letting them know how we are working it out. Please, no brutal responses either and please don't badmouth my wife, she is doing the best she can.
> 
> She and I have continued to talk about this over the past few days. Even though she has stopped communication, she told me it was hard for her to do and that she would need time to put it behind her. She has not been angry at me or resentful for this at all, but she has been sad. She feels like she is losing the friendship all over again. Which i saw as ridiculous and hurtful, but I heard her out and tried to put myself in her shoes.
> 
> ...


I think you are very lucky. You pulled your marriage back from the precipice. Your wife was basically at the start of an emotional affair. It may not have turned romantic just yet, but you can bet it would have gotten there if allowed to continue. You are still in a very precarious position. Stay strong on the no contact and the therapy is a great idea. It is great that your wife appreciated your very clear demonstration of how import her and you marriage are to you.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

njdad83 said:


> SO another update. I humbly request that judgment is not placed on my wife or myself for the following. I know its an issue and we are working on it. I'm not asking for advice, opinion or sympathy, I just put this up to help anyone else who is going through something similar by letting them know how we are working it out. Please, no brutal responses either and please don't badmouth my wife, she is doing the best she can.
> 
> She and I have continued to talk about this over the past few days. Even though she has stopped communication, she told me it was hard for her to do and that she would need time to put it behind her. She has not been angry at me or resentful for this at all, but she has been sad. She feels like she is losing the friendship all over again. Which i saw as ridiculous and hurtful, but I heard her out and tried to put myself in her shoes.
> 
> ...


NJ, 

I would like to focus on her belief that she was constantly waiting for you to leave her. Even after 15 year of marriage i am troubled that she still is waiting for you to leave her, I think what you guys need right now is therapy, primarily for her first to address self esteem issues and then collectively as a couple. Sometimes when someone does not value themselves they regress to a state where they have a comfort zone...in this case she felt when she was him, he treated her like crap many a times and that was her comfort zone. It way so many abused spouses don't leave their abusers, they feel it is the relationship they deserve. She said it herself that she does not deserve you....i would not wait on this....


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Lostinthought61 said:


> NJ,
> 
> I would like to focus on her belief that she was constantly waiting for you to leave her. Even after 15 year of marriage i am troubled that she still is waiting for you to leave her, I think what you guys need right now is therapy, primarily for her first to address self esteem issues and then collectively as a couple. Sometimes when someone does not value themselves they regress to a state where they have a comfort zone...in this case she felt when she was him, he treated her like crap many a times and that was her comfort zone. It way so many abused spouses don't leave their abusers, they feel it is the relationship they deserve. She said it herself that she does not deserve you....i would not wait on this....


This makes a lot of sense. I will bring this up when we see the therapist.


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

It certainly sounds like your wife was entering the emotional affair territory. I don't think she had any intension of cheating. I think emotional affairs are so dangerous because people who have no intension of cheating find themselves in the midst of an emotional affair before they even recognize what is happening. Kudos to both of you for handling this so well. It sounds like you are communicating at a level many relationships never reach. This level of communication combined with a little therapy will probably result in a truly great marriage going forward. Well done.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Sounds like you and your wife have a handle things which is great. Hopefully her ex heard the message loud and clear and leaves you two alone, but with him being so close in proximity, I could see him trying to reach out again or “run into” her at the store or something.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your wife seems to be being honest with you.
But, I still suggest “not just friends” …..
Because she doesn’t seem to get that she was in the process of transferring her feelings for you to him snd had you let this go on, I think it would have possibly done irreparable damage.

Hopefully you can see the damage it’s already caused. Just being honest here—- you may feel closer to her than ever, but I don’t know that SHE feels that way, regardless of what she says. It’s hard for her not to stop talking to the ex for a reason, and that reason is not good for your marriage.
✌


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife seems to be being honest with you.
> But, I still suggest “not just friends” …..
> Because she doesn’t seem to get that she was in the process of transferring her feelings for you to him snd had you let this go on, I think it would have possibly done irreparable damage.
> 
> ...


It's possible i wasn't clear in my latest update. She is still not to have any contact with the ex, that is the decision we both made together. She blocked him so she cant even see a response he might try to send her. She knows its unhealthy, she knows she has demons and we're going to work them out. I can see how you would doubt her sincerity, however i do trust her and i think it would be very difficult for her to fake the emotions she is showing. She has given me no reason to doubt her and has been nothing but honest this whole time when it would have been far easier to withhold how she was feeling after starting the no contact. Or worse yet, just never bring it up in the first place because she knew I wouldn't be ok with it. All that said, i'm still on my toes and will be for a while.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

njdad83 said:


> All that said, i'm still on my toes and will be for a while.


Everything you said before this... many have said the same thing with 110% conviction, only to be back here later.

The quoted part is the most important thing you said.

Like others, I'm really hopeful for you & your marriage. I'm sure you have a much better feel for things than anyone on here.
Just don't be convinced of _anything_ until you see in in action.
It seem like your marriage had some 'surprises' that you weren't aware of, so I'm hopeful there won't be another.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife seems to be being honest with you.
> But, I still suggest “not just friends” …..
> Because she doesn’t seem to get that she was in the process of transferring her feelings for you to him snd had you let this go on, I think it would have possibly done irreparable damage.
> 
> ...


I want to co-sign Ev’s suggestion of reading Not Just friends and also echo that your wife was in the beginning of an EA . These affairs always start off tame. Read the text evolution again. That is what was going to happen. I admire her honesty but you’re not out of the woods yet. She has basically told you she’s jonesing to talk to her ex. That is called going through withdrawals.

All that talk about him understanding her because of their common upbringing is just all noise. She has been with you for 15 years; with you treating her very lovingly and raising a family together but now after all you have done, endured, and built together, she’s implying she’s closer to this guy? No dude, she’s wrecklessly allowing her desire for the ego kibble of having her ex, that treated her badly in the past but is all friendly now to pump her up. It is all a dance. The friendly banter is just noise for what they both know is an inappropriate relationship they were fertilizing.

I’ve rapped to girls in the past. In the beginning it is all friendly but she knows and I know that she knows that I know that I’m chasing her. It’s all part of a courtship. Whether it’s at a club for a potential one nighter or a coworker or someone in your social circle. It always starts off with friendly chatter. But any grown knows that 2 married people shouldn’t be spending hour chitchatting with their ex.
He has his wife to comfort him for his loss. They were not friends for all these years and now he’s an important part of her life? No dude. That is completely unacceptable BS.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

njdad83 said:


> It's possible i wasn't clear in my latest update. She is still not to have any contact with the ex, that is the decision we both made together. She blocked him so she cant even see a response he might try to send her. She knows its unhealthy, she knows she has demons and we're going to work them out. I can see how you would doubt her sincerity, however i do trust her and i think it would be very difficult for her to fake the emotions she is showing. She has given me no reason to doubt her and has been nothing but honest this whole time when it would have been far easier to withhold how she was feeling after starting the no contact. Or worse yet, just never bring it up in the first place because she knew I wouldn't be ok with it. All that said, i'm still on my toes and will be for a while.


At this point you have no choice except to extend her some level of trust. Otherwise it would be over. Just stay sharp.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

njdad83 said:


> It's possible i wasn't clear in my latest update. She is still not to have any contact with the ex, that is the decision we both made together. She blocked him so she cant even see a response he might try to send her. She knows its unhealthy, she knows she has demons and we're going to work them out. I can see how you would doubt her sincerity, however i do trust her and i think it would be very difficult for her to fake the emotions she is showing. She has given me no reason to doubt her and has been nothing but honest this whole time when it would have been far easier to withhold how she was feeling after starting the no contact. Or worse yet, just never bring it up in the first place because she knew I wouldn't be ok with it. All that said, i'm still on my toes and will be for a while.


I’m glad she’s being honest about her feelings. Despite the strong confrontation and her even reading here what those who have seen this MANY times had to say, a couple of days later, she’s wanting to go back but knows you are watching. Just like after your first confrontation, where she said she would stop bit 2 days later she was back at it. 

Having your wife have to white knuckle it to suppress her desire to talk to another man who was her ex is crazy. I want to be positive but to be honest that was a very bad update and I don’t even think you fully grasp how negative it was.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> I’m glad she’s being honest about her feelings. Despite the strong confrontation and her even reading here what those who have seen this MANY times had to say, a couple of days later, she’s wanting to go back but knows you are watching. Just like after your first confrontation, where she said she would stop bit 2 days later she was back at it.
> 
> Having your wife have to white knuckle it to suppress her desire to talk to another man who was her ex is crazy. I want to be positive but to be honest that was a very bad update and I don’t even think you fully grasp how negative it was.


you have a good point. the fact that this turned into a post at all and didn't just end with her thinking to herself "this is inappropriate, if my husband did this i would be pissed, so I'm not going to respond." when the ex first sent the original message does not escape me. And that is why my Spidey sense went off in the first place, I did everything i could to get the situation back under control short of putting the ex 6 feet under as a previous reply mentioned. All i can do now is trust my wife and move foreword with an equal sense of optimism and skepticism along with a careful eye. I know shes vulnerable and i know shes got a blind spot. I can compensate until we get through therapy and if therapy doesn't work, i'll reassess proactively instead of reactively.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You keep saying how you trust your wife and that all you can do is trust her. I’m saying there is no way in hell you should trust her for a long time— until she doesn’t have these “urges” she mentions to talk to this cat.

Trust is something that reserved for wife’s who don’t ever begin emotional affairs with other men that undermines their feelings for their own husband.

Your wife is telling you these things because she’s wanting you to feel safe. Please don’t think you’re hearing the 100% full extent of what she’s thinking about her ex.

You have a problem. DO NOT get complacent for a long time. These affairs don’t die easily.
I’m worried for you.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> You keep saying how you trust your wife and that all you can do is trust her. I’m saying there is no way in hell you should trust her for a long time— until she doesn’t have these “urges” she mentions to talk to this cat.
> 
> Trust is something that reserved for wife’s who don’t ever begin emotional affairs with other men that undermines their feelings for their own husband.
> 
> ...


Ev, I totally agree again. If she’s trying to be honest and tell him she’s struggling with her desire to continue to talk to her ex, then she got in deeper than he realizes. Which goes back to them being aware of the nature of what they were really doing. Starting a relationship. No relationship starts with you’re so hot I want to taste you. It’s always subtle in the beginning. But in this case with their long childhood past and that he was her past lover, it means this would flourish QUICKLY, as you are witnessing her having withdrawal pangs after just a short time on on Whatup. It’s like a junky who’s willing to risk their marriage and their children’s stability for those ego kibbles. 

Btw I used the painful lover instead of vague ex to wake you up that they have a history. So they BOTH were developing a hunger for each other. I’m sure she will say no, but these things all happen at the subconscious level. If you were to have read as many threads as many long time TAMers you would know that affairs with an ex happen at blinding speed. When you read what seems like friendly chats, you’re missing the emotional impact it’s having on both of them. These Chats give a hunger for more intimate chats and to eventually want to hear his voice , that leads to wanting to see his face , when seeing him, want to feel his embrace. Just a friendly hug and kiss on the cheek. No harm right? That just leads to warmer hugs and to heavy flirting. I hope you get the picture.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> Ev, I totally agree again. If she’s trying to be honest and tell him she’s struggling with her desire to continue to talk to her ex, then she got in deeper than he realizes. Which goes back to them being aware of the nature of what they were really doing. Starting a relationship. No relationship starts with you’re so hot I want to taste you. It’s always subtle in the beginning. But in this case with their long childhood past and that he was her past lover, it means this would flourish QUICKLY, as you are witnessing her having withdrawal pangs after just a short time on on Whatup. It’s like a junky who’s willing to risk their marriage and their children’s stability for those ego kibbles.
> 
> Btw I used the painful lover instead of vague ex to wake you up that they have a history. So they BOTH were developing a hunger for each other. I’m sure she will say no, but these things all happen at the subconscious level. If you were to have read as many threads as many long time TAMers you would know that affairs with an ex happen at blinding speed. When you read what seems like friendly chats, you’re missing the emotional impact it’s having on both of them. These Chats give a hunger for more intimate chats and to eventually want to hear his voice , that leads to wanting to see his face , when seeing him, want to feel his embrace. Just a friendly hug and kiss on the cheek. No harm right? That just leads to warmer hugs and to heavy flirting. I hope you get the picture.


nothing missed here, my eyes are open. sounds like a few of you are saying divorce is the only option and it's inevitable. While she did make a pretty big mistake, i dont see it as unforgivable. I will fight for this and for my kids and i will win. This painful former lover, has delusions of being simply adequate. Hes a dim witted laborer who simply locks and unlocks lockers for people. and i may be a little arrogant because my profession requires it, but he is no match for me, intellectually or physically. This is not a case of hubris, I will win. If this goes further i simply make him understand.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’m not telling you to divorce.I’m telling you that you need to put some heat on your wife or this is very likely to get sideways.

it makes no difference if he’s a much lesser man than you in every way. What’s important is that he has your wife’s attention, her emotions, and her love.

If I were you, I’d consider having a much stronger approach than hoping you can trust her and hoping there’s no communication.

You can’t trust her. If you could, this would have never happened.
Trust yourself. Make her trust that you will be DONE if this bs continues. One way to do that is a change of emotions abd how you treat her.
I’d be making her work her way back to me. Not the opposite. And if she contacted him again, I’d have already talked to an attorney and had papers ready to deliver.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

njdad83 said:


> nothing missed here, my eyes are open. sounds like a few of you are saying divorce is the only option and it's inevitable. While she did make a pretty big mistake, i dont see it as unforgivable. I will fight for this and for my kids and i will win. This painful former lover, has delusions of being simply adequate. Hes a dim witted laborer who simply locks and unlocks lockers for people. and i may be a little arrogant because my profession requires it, but he is no match for me, intellectually or physically. This is not a case of hubris, I will win. If this goes further i simply make him understand.


I’m not saying D at all. I want you guys to move past this in a positive way to strengthen your marital bonds. I’ve been with my wife for 35 years, 32 married and we have 4 kids. So I know that marriage take work, compromise, and lots patience. We are now down to our youngest still at home so are also facing the empty nest stage. Seeing how it has impacted others has caused me to be more aware of my wife’s needs. As a matter of fact @BigDaddyNY last few post on what he’s done to be in front of issues has inspired me to up my game on a few fronts. I say all of that just to let you know that I’m not one to advise throwing in the towel over what has happened but I do want to advise a hyper vigilance because there’s trouble brewing. Fight for your family but make sure she’s onboard. You can’t fight alone.

Lastly, don’t let his being overweight or several notches below you on the socioeconomic level lull you to rest. Like I said earlier. It is common for people to affair down . Women I particular are not as drawn by looks as us men. And even men affair down. I’ve read many accounts of wives who were the mother of their husbands kids and were fitter and more attractive than their OW and the husband still betrayed them. You know us men can be dogs when it comes to new pus.., we can have a Ferrari of a wife at home but still be tempted to test drive an old rusted out Pinto.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

This reminds of another thread a few years back about wives keeping 'backup options' available. If the marriage doesn't work, my first call will be.... mentaility. If she was worried you would leave her (for no reason), maybe she was just keeping him on the back burner in her mind... and that is what is painful for her, losing a theoretical backup option.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

@jsmart and @Evinrude58 - my apologies for misunderstanding your replies. I am certainly upping my game and swill stay vigilant.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Hey everyone! So I figured I'd provide an update and all is good. She is no longer communicating with the ex at all and our marriage is stronger than its ever been. She did not get the answers she was looking for, but she now says she doesn't need them. She is seeing a therapist and was diagnosed with PTSD from emotional trauma in her childhood that she had suppressed. That trauma led to her to repeat past unhealthy relationships and seek out people who treated her poorly because that is what she felt she deserved -(According to her therapist). She is going through therapy now and is working through the trauma and retraining her brain to process it in a healthy way. It has made a world of difference in her daily life and stress levels and i swear even the kids are happier. She is much more patient, and generally calmer and she is even sleeping well. 

For good measure, I also reached out to the ex a while back to make sure he understood contact was off limits. I was expecting an a$$hole...however he turned out to be pretty decent and very understanding. He was apologetic and never meant to cause any trouble. He said he was happily married and he was not looking for anything but re-connecting with an old friend while he was going through the death of his father. HE explained to me that most people did not like his father, even his current wife. So it was nice to talk to my wife again because she had such a strong bond with his father that the ex felt he could confide in my wife and share memories of his father with her. He said he would let me know if she ever reached out to him, but would not respond. He did mention that he would like for us to all be friendly at some point in the future, but he would understand, regardless of the direction it goes. He and I are actually into a lot of the same hobbies. I also found out he and I know a lot of the same people from when he worked as a landscaper. Upon talking to people I have known for 15-20 years, who also know the ex, they all vouched that he had been an ass when he was younger, but had really turned himself around. 

The therapist did say to us that she has often seen the chain of events that stared like this, end in divorce. Usually its because people don't identify the real issues and stop communicating, leading both parties minds to come up with all kinds of possible problems and they just grow out of control. Then they look for comfort elsewhere because home becomes so stressful. I was lucky in that my wife was willing to talk to a therapist and admit she has trauma that she has been hiding even from herself all these years. Without getting into too much detail, my wife has also suffered from emotional conditions since i've known her. It started out not so bad, but as the stress of our kids and covid progressed, it got very, very bad. I'm actually thankful this happened because it opened up my eyes and she was finally able to share everything with me, that she had been holding back because she didn't want me to worry about her, or get scared away. She was trying to deal with most of it by herself, but now she is really working on herself and I can be there for her through this, which helps reduce her stress. 

Thank you all again for your comments and suggestions and If anything changes i will post an update.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

o and i forgot, the ex's spouse did know about them communicating, i met her as well when i went to talk to the ex.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

njdad83 said:


> o and i forgot, the ex's spouse did know about them communicating, i met her as well when i went to talk to the ex.


This sounds like an extremely positive development. You've covered all the bases. Everyone's on the same page.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

njdad83 said:


> Hey everyone! So I figured I'd provide an update and all is good. She is no longer communicating with the ex at all and our marriage is stronger than its ever been. She did not get the answers she was looking for, but she now says she doesn't need them. She is seeing a therapist and was diagnosed with PTSD from emotional trauma in her childhood that she had suppressed. That trauma led to her to repeat past unhealthy relationships and seek out people who treated her poorly because that is what she felt she deserved -(According to her therapist). She is going through therapy now and is working through the trauma and retraining her brain to process it in a healthy way. It has made a world of difference in her daily life and stress levels and i swear even the kids are happier. She is much more patient, and generally calmer and she is even sleeping well.
> 
> For good measure, I also reached out to the ex a while back to make sure he understood contact was off limits. I was expecting an a$$hole...however he turned out to be pretty decent and very understanding. *He was apologetic and never meant to cause any trouble. He said he was happily married and he was not looking for anything but re-connecting with an old friend while he was going through the death of his father. HE explained to me that most people did not like his father, even his current wife. So it was nice to talk to my wife again because she had such a strong bond with his father that the ex felt he could confide in my wife and share memories of his father with her. He said he would let me know if she ever reached out to him, but would not respond. He did mention that he would like for us to all be friendly at some point in the future, but he would understand, regardless of the direction it goes. He and I are actually into a lot of the same hobbies.* I also found out he and I know a lot of the same people from when he worked as a landscaper. Upon talking to people I have known for 15-20 years, who also know the ex, they all vouched that he had been an ass when he was younger, but had really turned himself around.
> 
> ...


Yeah, same hobbies. 
You’ve got two huge things in common with him. He’s had a lot of sex with your wife and he was talking regularly with her recently.

what did you expect him to say? “Yeah man, I was trying to work my way back into your wife’s good graces and eventually her pants, sorry bro, I will stop now”…

bravo for having the balls to talk to him, but no kudos for accepting what he’s told you as gospel.

that guy is no friend to your marriage and should be cut out if it. I hope your wife truly has done so. But burner phones and cheating apps are real things.

good luck


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Yeah, same hobbies.
> You’ve got two huge things in common with him. He’s had a lot of sex with your wife and he was talking regularly with her recently.
> 
> what did you expect him to say? “Yeah man, I was trying to work my way back into your wife’s good graces and eventually her pants, sorry bro, I will stop now”…
> ...


Fair point. The fact that his wife knew was pretty telling though. If your planning on cheating you probably wouldn't tell your wife about the girl your talking to... At the end of the day though, I can only do what I can do. I certainly cant control my wife's mind or her actions. I think I've covered my bases pretty extensively. Also, things are going very smooth right now. There is no indication of anything going on. I sit in with my wife in some of her therapy sessions when she asks me too and we are spending a lot of time together. Also, because of how we do our monthly budget, I would notice money missing for a burner phone. I have notifications set up so anytime a new app is added to her phone, the receipt for the app (whether free or paid) is sent to my email. I suppose the response to that is he could buy her one, and I'll give you that. But i just don't think its something I have to worry about. I'll point to the fact again that she was honest throughout this whole ordeal and never lied to me. I see no reason she would start now.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Congrats. Thanks for checking in.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He said he would let you know if she reached out to him but wouldn’t respond. Why?????
He’s not YOUR friend, he’s HERS. Shockingly because she should want nothing to do with his sorry tail (but she does, clearly) The more I think about this, the more obvious it is that you’re dealing with a snake in the grass.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> He said he would let you know if she reached out to him but wouldn’t respond. Why?????
> He’s not YOUR friend, he’s HERS. Shockingly because she should want nothing to do with his sorry tail (but she does, clearly) The more I think about this, the more obvious it is that you’re dealing with a snake in the grass.


When i was in fourth grade, I picked up a snake off the playground because the lunch aid said we couldn't play there with the snake sitting on the slide. I nearly gave her a heart attack and then i got sent to the principals office, who proceeded to lecture me about how dangerous snakes were. Thing is, he didn't know anything about snakes and didn't know a dangerous one from a harmless one, and in fourth grade, i knew everything! j/k, but i did know the difference between a copper head and a garter snake. Snakes never bothered me. 

At this point, its unfair to put my wife through any further scrutiny and I trust her. She is a very attractive woman and has had her share of guys coming onto her when she is out with her friends or at her work, but she has never waivered. I was also never the jealous type because i knew i could trust her. I know about the trauma she went through, and the fact she turned out as great as she did, with what she went through growing up speaks to her character and her resolve. She could have gone down a very different path, but she held onto her self respect despite what her family and "boyfriends" did to her. Looking back at this now, and after i spoke to her therapist, i think i may have blown this out of proportion due to my own insecurities. I would not do anything differently if i had it to do over, but i may have been a little too hard on my wife about it. I was more concerned about how i felt than why things were happening the way they were, or what she was feeling. I think that is the lesson i learned here, i kept arguing with her about how i felt and never put myself in her shoes because i couldn't replicate her past experiences to think the way she was thinking. I really don't believe she had ill intentions. She was just trying to handle things the way she always has, by herself. But as a result of this experience, she no longer feels that way and has shared every struggle that she has had, and is having, that she didn't want to burden me with. The struggles don't involve other people, but more her view of herself and how she always feels inferior. Too short, to heavy (and she's not), she always feels like she needs to be perfect. She worries about the job she's doing as a mom, as a wife, as a human being that she feels like she needs to give more back, but doesn't have time so she views herself as selfish, which is the furthest thing from the truth. All these things she has been battling in silence and now they are out in the open so i can help her. These are feelings she's always had because of how she was treated, that she's dealt with by suppressing them and pretending, but it has been incredibly difficult for her. And while some would say after 10 years of marriage i should have figured it out, or she should have been more honest, she was scared that letting me that far in, letting herself be that vulnerable, would lead me to judge her, or me pulling away from her and she could not deal with that. They were unhealthy secrets that she reasoned were just her having her privacy. They are out now and we are moving foreword together. 

Either way, I have made my position clear to the ex and his wife, I have deemed him not an imminent or immediate threat, moved him out of the way and we are moving on. I'll continue to be vigilant, but this snake has been removed. The larger issue here is this is a huge step forward in our marriage and relationship and I have a lot of work to do to help my wife see herself the way I see her. There is no growth without discomfort, I think we needed this to grow.


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## So far so good (7 mo ago)

The red flag is her inability to stop talking to him. That indicates that she has an emotional attachment to him. That means you are dealing with an EA at a minimum.

His father passing, whether he was a bad BF or a great BF how long they have known each other etc… it’s all noise and irrelevant.

what’s relevant is that she won’t stop putting time and energy in a relationship other than your marriage. He’s basically a BF even if she doesn’t see it yet.

She can either have a BF or be married to you, but *not both*. Unless and until she cuts all contact with him, it leaves you no choice but to start the D process. While you do this, she might have an epiphany and you can stop that process.

Also, you might consider getting tested for STD and stop having sex with her. You don’t know how far this has gone and whether she has put your health at risk


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

njdad83 said:


> I appreciate that! I have to stick around and help who i can. I feel like posters "single" handedly gave me the confidence to take the bull by the horns and not worry about if i looked like i was being too controlling. I will look for his thread and see if i can add, but all the posters have been great!
> 
> Funny story, i did tell her i was posting since her and I figured this out last night. I half expected her to be mad that i was airing our dirty laundry, but she has read through it all and she now feels even worse. She wants to sign on as well and start giving her two cents to see if she can help other people in the position she accidentally put me in!


everything you said is dead on except one thing " its never accidental" and nobody is that "naive" only teenagaers . we all know what we are doing and enjoy it thats why humans do the things they do.. 
what you did was superb you where an alpha and thats what it means to be one and have respect for yourself first before your spouse can respect you !! GOOD JOB !!! and that also means
1) no need to set boundaries we are adults we know what they are ( what has to be clear to the other spouse is if we are married and any part of our vows are broken I will leave period- they need to know that and that has to be clear !! and you demostrated it perefectly by letting her know she could choose and if she chose to continue you where gone !!)) this in my opinion is where people fail they compromise on this when a situation presents itself for it to be displayed. they act out of fear instead of acting for the sake of the marriage - which is always Never i menan NEVER compromise on the marriage vows in any way !!
2) speak your mind express your emotions and if the spouse chooses to do it then you know what they value
3) trust what u see rather then what they say !!

Also letting her know about this site was a bit premature and only mistake i think you made. becuase now for the next year or two you cannot monitor without her suspecting . so atleast now if for any reason she contacts him you know what to do and she has no excuse !!! Divorce and 180 simple and im sure you will be able to do it..

Im glad it worked out because you stood your ground!! Its not weak fighting for your marriage the key i believe is how you do it . And you did it in a way that expressed your feeling and let her know if she chooses to ignore or remain in contact you would leave kudos and i think this is where alot of spous fail because they are not willing to loose their marriage to save it - hence betas good job!!


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> This might be unpopular, but if my wife pulled that **, she'd be out the door. I ** you not, she would have been out the door if she was messaging any dude on Facebook, especially an ex. For the life of me, I cannot understand how so many marriages have zero boundaries; truly baffling. You guys can say all the crap you want about "controlling" bs, but I also know if I was messaging an ex, my wife would have also kicked my butt to the curb. Those are just the simplest of boundaries.
> 
> OP is going to be on here talking about "how can my wife do this to me" and chronicling the divorce all because he didn't have a spine to put up proper boundaries....incredible.


excellent point !!!!!
however atleast he did something!! 

That being said:
The fact that after you told her how you feel and not to contact him she did contact him after he said not too and it was only after *2 days* smh that was totaly disrespect OP to you !!! and yes at this point she knew what she was doing was wrong and choose to do it anyways -- she wasnt naive here so dont defend her ... And for this reason alone you should have implemented the NC rule to a Tee and file and served her divorce papers not becuase you intended to divorce but to show her that, that behavior will never stand with you. AND never be afraid to expose to her family - you said it would cause trouble so what ??? she knew what everyone thought already and especialy you and it didnt matter. what does that tell you . SO by you saying that i do belive it was a point of weaknes but Yes you should of let her family know and that would drive it in how serious you are about not tolerating any of that type of behaviour that is disrespecting to you and your marriage VOWS !!. ACtions always speak louder than words period !!! so i have to agree with this poster here OP and why he said what he did !!! its not easy being an alpha but you must respect yourself always and must always do what is needed by actions to save a marriage and that means doing what is not comfortble or easy when our hearts are invested !! buy it you act out of fear dont wxpect your spouse to give you the respect you deserve ever !!


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

njdad83 said:


> SO another update. I humbly request that judgment is not placed on my wife or myself for the following. I know its an issue and we are working on it. I'm not asking for advice, opinion or sympathy, I just put this up to help anyone else who is going through something similar by letting them know how we are working it out. Please, no brutal responses either and please don't badmouth my wife, she is doing the best she can.
> 
> She and I have continued to talk about this over the past few days. Even though she has stopped communication, she told me it was hard for her to do and that she would need time to put it behind her. She has not been angry at me or resentful for this at all, but she has been sad. She feels like she is losing the friendship all over again. Which i saw as ridiculous and hurtful, but I heard her out and tried to put myself in her shoes.
> 
> ...


As per you your request i wont reply to this post except one thing you did what you had to and thats okay .. talking about your feelings and hearing hers thats okay nothing wrong here. BUT when she chose to marry you it is you alone who deserves that attention that intimacey it is never another man why because thats how affairs begin PERIOD!!... Talking about how you feel is both theurapeutic and a trust builder .. 
we all have baggage and we dont live in the past and we all have the capablity to leave what is in the past in the pAST . When vows are made they are made between 2 people Right ? and we must cherish and protect those vows at all cost .. The kicker is we all know that some chose to push the boundaries and play with fire and hence they get burnt and wonder why !! there is only excuses for ones actions and its just that!! its been what 15yrs if he was that importnat and she needed that why did she marry you ?? and thats just it its easy to justify when you push the boundaries and that is what VOWS constantly remind us .. because once broken Trust is something that will now take a lifetime to regain if ever and that is what most never realize is a consequence !!


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

Lostinthought61 said:


> NJ,
> 
> I would like to focus on her belief that she was constantly waiting for you to leave her. Even after 15 year of marriage i am troubled that she still is waiting for you to leave her, I think what you guys need right now is therapy, primarily for her first to address self esteem issues and then collectively as a couple. Sometimes when someone does not value themselves they regress to a state where they have a comfort zone...in this case she felt when she was him, he treated her like crap many a times and that was her comfort zone. It way so many abused spouses don't leave their abusers, they feel it is the relationship they deserve. She said it herself that she does not deserve you....i would not wait on this....


alot of spouses also use this as an excuse its very common to justify what the want to do or justify deflecting the blame unintetionally


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> You keep saying how you trust your wife and that all you can do is trust her. I’m saying there is no way in hell you should trust her for a long time— until she doesn’t have these “urges” she mentions to talk to this cat.
> 
> Trust is something that reserved for wife’s who don’t ever begin emotional affairs with other men that undermines their feelings for their own husband.
> 
> ...


exactly !!!! 
you should never be talking about trusting her now !!! she broke it and she knows so do you !! it now has to be earned and she has to be doing the heavy lifting!! C;mon dude you know that . your startng to say things that beta males who are afraid of losing their spouse say instead of being firm "Remember to save your marriage you have to be willing to loose it all by your actions "" she needs to be in the mindframe i need to earn his trust because I broke it and if i dont he is going to leave not the dance you two are now in !! you unintetionally gave her a safety net because you didnt tell her family i believe because you said it would of cost more harm than good!! mmmmmh uhhhhh !! REALLY... its your f***kn marriage you are fighting for right !!


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

njdad83 said:


> nothing missed here, my eyes are open. sounds like a few of you are saying divorce is the only option and it's inevitable. While she did make a pretty big mistake, i dont see it as unforgivable. I will fight for this and for my kids and i will win. This painful former lover, has delusions of being simply adequate. Hes a dim witted laborer who simply locks and unlocks lockers for people. and i may be a little arrogant because my profession requires it, but he is no match for me, intellectually or physically. This is not a case of hubris, I will win. If this goes further i simply make him understand.


your missing the point its your wife that needs to understand that clearer than anyone else don't forget that !!! that anger you have and focus use it where it matters most -- what your wife willing did and was willing to throw away more importantly with her action and yes her actions especially after you told her- it only took 2 days !! that is when her family should of been notified !! and 180 NC its your marriage and fighting for it means the spouse cheating need to know how serious you are about anything that compromises your marriage !! nobody esle needs to know the extent because you are only marriade to her and it is her that trust was placed in !!


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

truststone said:


> your missing the point its your wife that needs to understand that clearer than anyone else don't forget that !!! that anger you have and focus use it where it matters most -- what your wife willing did and was willing to throw away more importantly with her action and yes her actions especially after you told her- it only took 2 days !! that is when her family should of been notified !! and 180 NC its your marriage and fighting for it means the spouse cheating need to know how serious you are about anything that compromises your marriage !! nobody esle needs to know the extent because you are only marriade to her and it is her that trust was placed in !!


Sorry i am just seeing the posts from the other day now. I appreciate the continued feedback and the insight provided. She has maintained the no contact. As a result of this whole situation, I have become very suspicious of just about everything though, so I am keeping a close eye on everything. She knows she screwed up and she is doing what she needs to. I would not have let her family in on it unless I really couldn't control it on my own, but at that point, it would be time for divorce papers anyway. I would not want to stay in a marriage just because her family guilted her into it. I chose to make my expectations clear and confront the ex instead, as i described in an earlier post. She has also come clean on some little white lies she told when we started dating 15 years ago without me even asking or knowing about them, and about things she had left out from her past, which really were more about privacy, than her keeping anything from me. She was afraid i would leave her if i knew certain things about her past (from prior to us dating). Truth is I don't really care what she did prior to us dating, but to her it was a big deal. She claims most of this is her being afraid that i will judge her for poor decisions and bad habits, and she was used to dealing with it by herself, so she didn't want to burden me with worrying about her. However, I explained to her that the real reason she wasn't telling me, in my opinion, was to protect herself from my reaction. And as soon as she decided not to tell me those things because of my reaction, it became about secrecy rather than privacy and was deceitful. I have seen a notable change in the way she reacts to being questioned since this whole thing started, initially she would get very defensive and try to justify her actions, nonsense justifications of course, but to her it made sense. When i called her on her nonsense excuses, she would storm out and try to avoid the topic. Now she is calmer, actually admits she screwed up and makes no excuses. As much as this whole thing sucked, it knocked down the rest of her protective wall she built up during the hard times she went through growing up. She was always afraid of letting anyone too far in because she was most afraid of feeling vulnerable or being judged when in fact she was her own worst critic and assumed everyone would see her as poorly as she saw herself. She had low self esteem growing up because of how she was treated by her own family and dated assholes and had random hookups to make herself feel better. Most of this thread has been about what she did wrong and why that makes her the bad guy. But she went though physical abuse as a child, alcohol dependency, deals with PTSD, and still raises 4 kids, cooks, cleans, keeps the family schedule, does laundry, runs errands, arranges play dates for the kids, keeps me sane with my workload and is a fantastic mom and wife. The good far outweighs the bad. I think the key is clear communication and rock solid boundaries, which have been set. She can no longer claim ignorance or being naïve. She also no longer feels the need to "protect me" from things in her past because its all out in the open now. The most interesting part is, she suffers from anxiety and other emotional disorders, but since this all came out and she's no longer keeping anything from me, she is doing incredibly well in regards to those conditions and has even been able to stop medications she was on. IT's like the secrecy was causing her anxiety because she was so afraid i would find out, at least that's what her therapist says. But my wife is happier, healthier and though i'm still getting over trust issues I think we are in a really good place. She is still seeing a therapist to reconcile her past and continues to make progress. She has also confronted her family member who abused her and received a heartfelt apology, which really helped her progress. Their relationship is still rocky, but it is improving. Many posts I seemed overzealous about leaving her and never being able to trust her again. I think it was more about helping her get through her own demons and I will be here to help and support her as she does.


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## njdad83 (9 mo ago)

That being said:
The fact that after you told her how you feel and not to contact him she did contact him after he said not too and it was only after *2 days* smh that was totaly disrespect OP to you !!! and yes at this point she knew what she was doing was wrong and choose to do it anyways -- she wasnt naive here so dont defend her ... And for this reason alone you should have implemented the NC rule to a Tee and file and served her divorce papers not becuase you intended to divorce but to show her that, that behavior will never stand with you. AND never be afraid to expose to her family - you said it would cause trouble so what ??? she knew what everyone thought already and especialy you and it didnt matter. what does that tell you . SO by you saying that i do belive it was a point of weaknes but Yes you should of let her family know and that would drive it in how serious you are about not tolerating any of that type of behaviour that is disrespecting to you and your marriage VOWS !!. ACtions always speak louder than words period !!! so i have to agree with this poster here OP and why he said what he did !!! its not easy being an alpha but you must respect yourself always and must always do what is needed by actions to save a marriage and that means doing what is not comfortble or easy when our hearts are invested !! buy it you act out of fear dont wxpect your spouse to give you the respect you deserve ever !!
[/QUOTE]

to be fair, I initially only told her to slow it down. Looking back, I agree I should have told her to stop all contact right then. I don think i would have gone the divorce paper route at that point, because i would never threaten something i wasn't ready and willing to follow through on, and I was not ready at that point. Had she started talking to him again after the no contact boundary was set, I feel like that would have been the right time for the papers, but not as a threat, as a course of action.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

marko polo said:


> Whether he gained 50lbs or 200lbs since she last saw him it won't matter *she will do what he asks.*


THIS ^^^^

You better forget about the guy’s physical appearance. Your real enemy is the dopamine rush she gets from talking/seeing this guy. It overpowers her.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Not sure what MC will do at all, why is it needed? You said you had a good marriage.
> She needs to stop the communication. She is playing with fire. Its not appropriate for a married person to act that way.
> As for you, ask her to stop the communication. Its simple.


yeah not sure why you go MC if the ONLY issue is something your wife can just stop. Unless you are just looking for someone else to tell her it is not ok.


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