# Is it possible to be in a healthy relationship with a "love addict"?



## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

I never heard this term before until someone mentioned it in another one of my posts but it made me start researching this. I came across the following article and it make start thinking if my marriage ever had a shot to begin with because I feel my XW was a "love addict".



> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/healthy-connections/201012/how-break-the-pattern-love-addiction
> 
> Love addiction, however, is a compulsive, chronic craving and/or pursuit of romantic love in an effort to get our sense of security and worth from another person. During infatuation we believe we have that security only to be disappointed and empty again once the intensity fades. The negative consequences can be severe and yet the love addict continues to hang on to the belief that true love with fix everything.


We have been having the same argument since the beginning of the relationship and it always went something like this that "I didn't love her the same way she loved me". That in a nutshell has been the collapse of my marriage and for her ultimately having a year long affair behind my back.

I always thought we had a good marriage and I felt the love/affection I showed her was normal, but the more she kept on bringing this up made me feel more withdrawn because it got to the point where I always felt I wasn't good enough or I wasn't loving her enough...it felt I could never quench her thirst for affection. And it always felt she loved so much more for her own selfish reasons to make herself happy and not really for me.

So back to my question is it possible to in a healthy relationship with a "love addict" or do they eventually just self-destruct a good relationship?

Thank you!


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

Has anyone ever experienced someone who is a "love addict"?


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

I consider my ex-wife to be a love-addict. She is also a narcissist. 

I don't believe a healthy relationship is possible with someone who is so emotionally unhealthy, regardless of the source of that unhealthiness. With love-addicts, specifically, who you are is of zero importance and is pretty much beside the point. If you are living, breathing and willing to be manipulated, you are a perfect match for a love-addict.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

Magnesium said:


> I consider my ex-wife to be a love-addict. She is also a narcissist.
> 
> I don't believe a healthy relationship is possible with someone who is so emotionally unhealthy, regardless of the source of that unhealthiness. With love-addicts, specifically, who you are is of zero importance and is pretty much beside the point. If you are living, breathing and willing to be manipulated, you are a perfect match for a love-addict.


Thanks for the reply!

I guess my soon-to-be-ex-wife is a bit of a narcissist too, when we would get into fights she would say things like "*it would be very easy for me to find someone else*" and "*I would never find someone as good as her*". 

Our arguments would always consist of her telling me what she needs from me to make herself feel happiness/love/affection, and what I was currently doing wasn't enough or I was not doing the right things. She was never able to see how good the rest of our relationship was, and always just focused on this all the time. It was like this same love/affection discussions consumed our whole relationship.

Did you experience similar type of things with your ex-wife?

Thank you!


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

With all things, I am sure there are many different levels of this.

I live in a very small area of middle, rural GA. People get divorced and remarried like it's going out of style. I've never understood that mentality, but it runs rampant around here. One woman met, fell "in love with," and married a man in SIX WEEKS. SIX WEEKS. (It's actually been a couple years now and they are still married, although I don't know how "happily.")

When I was younger (17-20,) I could say that my insecurities might have bent me towards what you describe as "love addiction." And admittedly, throughout my failed marriage I can see where it caused some problems.

But is certainly wasn't ALL or even the majority of the problems. I've had a lot of years to look back and see what my contributions to the downfall of the marriage were, and I can see that placing too much emotional dependency on my exH was my main contribution. Lesson learned. 

But I definitely still see it in relationships of people my age (now late 30s) and older. My ex fiancé was like this. He was also a narcissist. He met and "fell in love" with someone else while we were still together. Because he is addicted to the high of the "new." I feel sorry for his new person. Because I know he will do her like he did me (and all his other ex's.....stupid me should have listened.)

Anyway, I think happiness can be found with anyone who is at least emotionally aware of themselves. A "love addict" could be so far into their addiction that denial rules. And that would not lend itself to a very happy relationship.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

GA HEART said:


> But is certainly wasn't ALL or even the majority of the problems. I've had a lot of years to look back and see what my contributions to the downfall of the marriage were, and *I can see that placing too much emotional dependency on my exH was my main contribution. Lesson learned.*


What you wrote above resonates with me so much, in my relationship it always felt like she was definitely "emotionally dependent" on me to prop her up and make her feel happy inside; which was a lot of pressure to put on your spouse. 

The funny thing is she would recognize her own craziness and say I'm sorry I'm needy, emotional mess, and just can't be happy with the way you are. So even though she would recognize this, it still didn't change the fact that she was still feeling unhappy inside.

And I was always scared if there was going to be a point where she would ever feel satisfied or would she continually crave more? Or what happens if real life problems come into play and I can't be there for her to prop her up and make her feel happy inside, would she have had an affair later into our marriage when kids were present because she felt so empty inside?

Those would be the questions I would ask myself, so I guess it's not a good sign to be having questions / thoughts like this about your own wife; so maybe my intuition / gut feeling was pushing me away from her for good reason.

Thank you!


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

Absolutely. She is a bottomless pit. Everything is about her - her needs, her wants, her desires, her perspectives, etc. No amount of validation, affection, denial of self, blood, sweat, tears, money, time, etc. will ever fill that void. Who I am mattered not one bit. She did the same to every person before me and will do the same to every one after me. She had no "type" - with one exception: we were are all co-dependent enough to be willing to allow her to use, manipulate and attempt to destroy us ...basically, to completely consume us to fill a void that was unfillable.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

There is a difference in admitting/recognizing a problem and actively taking ownership and working towards fixing it. In my case, I didn't even realize that I had already started solving my own problem by turning into myself. I was depressed, felt unloved, and bore the burdock of my ex's issues as well. I started turning inside myself and doing things for me and learned how to be happy without him. (And I do need to point out that he was an abusive ass who emotionally tortured me and the children, occasionally laying hands on them........so no, the issues weren't ALL mine.)

Once I learned how to be happy on my own, resentments grew in both of us. See, he had a little bit of the same issue.....wanted me to make him happy too. The difference between us is that I learned to be happy on my own. He got married again 3 days after our divorce. Lol!


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

Magnesium said:


> Absolutely. She is a bottomless pit. Everything is about her - her needs, her wants, her desires, her perspectives, etc. No amount of validation, affection, denial of self, blood, sweat, tears, money, time, etc. will ever fill that void. Who I am mattered not one bit. She did the same to every person before me and will do the same to every one after me. She had no "type" - with one exception: we were are all co-dependent enough to be willing to allow her to use, manipulate and attempt to destroy us ...basically, to completely consume us to fill a void that was unfillable.


I completely agree, she always use to say "if you just do this, that, and the other thing it would be enough", or minimize her needs by saying "I'm not asking for a lot"; meanwhile not recognizing all the other things I would do for her or seeing all the other positive things in our relationship...I just wish she saw the bigger picture. 

Thank you for all your replies, it definitely helps make me feel like this is the right decision; as I tend to continue to play ping-pong with the thoughts in my head. At times, I'm thinking that maybe I should have done more to meet these needs and then other times I'm like F-her I did do a lot and I should have been enough the way I was.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

GA HEART said:


> There is a difference in admitting/recognizing a problem and actively taking ownership and working towards fixing it. In my case, I didn't even realize that I had already started solving my own problem by turning into myself. I was depressed, felt unloved, and bore the burdock of my ex's issues as well. I started turning inside myself and doing things for me and learned how to be happy without him. (And I do need to point out that he was an abusive ass who emotionally tortured me and the children, occasionally laying hands on them........so no, the issues weren't ALL mine.)
> 
> Once I learned how to be happy on my own, resentments grew in both of us. See, he had a little bit of the same issue.....wanted me to make him happy too. The difference between us is that I learned to be happy on my own. He got married again 3 days after our divorce. Lol!


Yes, that's definitely an issue on "his" part if he was also being emotional/physically abusive.

Geeez, that's crazy; 3 days after...is he still married?


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

dennisg1 said:


> I completely agree, she always use to say "if you just do this, that, and the other thing it would be enough", or minimize her needs by saying "I'm not asking for a lot"; meanwhile not recognizing all the other things I would do for her or seeing all the other positive things in our relationship...I just wish she saw the bigger picture.
> 
> Thank you for all your replies, it definitely helps make me feel like this is the right decision; as I tend to continue to play ping-pong with the thoughts in my head. At times, I'm thinking that maybe I should have done more to meet these needs and then other times I'm like F-her I did do a lot and I should have been enough the way I was.


I used to get the same BS from my ex wife ...almost verbatim. 

It wouldn't matter how much more you did, it would never be enough. All the effort you put in already is in the figurative toilet now and to her it is like it never happened.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

Magnesium said:


> I used to get the same BS from my ex wife ...almost verbatim.
> 
> It wouldn't matter how much more you did, it would never be enough. All the effort you put in already is in the figurative toilet now and to her it is like it never happened.


It's nice to hear that I'm not the only one that has experienced this similar type of relationship! :smile2:

Yes, I have to accept that now and realize if things were good between us we would have never reached this point to begin with. 

There would be times where I would try looking at our marriage from an outside perspective and I would be like we have a pretty good marriage. We laugh a lot, we are caring towards each other, we do date nights, we go out with friends/family, etc. and I just couldn't understand how she was seeing a different type of relationship and focusing on this same thing over and over again.

All the times when she was falling apart and I would have to make her whole again by telling her we have a good life, nice house, great time together and there are people out there that have it a lot worse; she would always be so pessimistic on life when there was nothing to warrant that type of thinking.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

dennisg1 said:


> It's nice to hear that I'm not the only one that has experienced this similar type of relationship! :smile2:
> 
> Yes, I have to accept that now and realize if things were good between us we would have never reached this point to begin with.
> 
> ...


Ah see, in my experience, this was to keep me on the hook and force me to take responsibility for her feelings. It also served to keep me off balance.

It may take a bit of time, but you'll one day be very glad you're free of her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

No


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

I went through a very traumatic experience a few years ago that created a lot of insecurities in me that weren't there previously, and I think I developed behaviours and feelings consistent with "love addiction". At that time I think I was unknowingly incapable of having a healthy relationship, for the reason that the needs of someone in such a low state of mind and such a lack of love for themselves are just not compatible with the needs of another healthy individual. Actually I think when I was in that state of mind I attracted other unhealthy people and was turned off by "normal" men because they couldn't feed the need I had for constant intensity.

The process of changing for me was long and slow and painful, but it involved being single for quite a long time learning to love myself again and forgive myself for whatever it was I felt I had failed at. When I came to that point, I didn't feel like I "needed" love anymore the same way to be okay and I definitely felt much more capable of being patient and tolerant of other people because I didn't have this gaping void anymore for them to fill to make me feel better.

So the answer is really that I am not sure anyone is capable of having a truly healthy and happy relationship with someone else if their relationship with themselves is not truly happy and healthy. Which is such a cliche but from my own past experience I know when I have not been okay or felt okay with myself that the worst thing for me to do was try and be with someone else.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

My answer to the original question is no, not unless they get treatment. Just like with an alcoholic or any other type of addict. They're not even "really there" while the addiction is in charge.



dennisg1 said:


> I guess my soon-to-be-ex-wife is a bit of a narcissist too, when we would get into fights she would say things like "*it would be very easy for me to find someone else*" and "*I would never find someone as good as her*".


And that means, often such people will leave of their own accord. I've experienced that.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Laurentium said:


> My answer to the original question is no, not unless they get treatment. Just like with an alcoholic or any other type of addict. They're not even "really there" while the addiction is in charge.
> 
> 
> 
> And that means, often such people will leave of their own accord. I've experienced that.



Or they just continue having sex with the side- pieces until they get busted and cry like the stuck pig, aka, Harvey-
Ohhhhh my addiction!
I'm addicted to having sex with other people.

Well- go have sex with whomever and give me half my assets BEFORE-
You give me a potential death sentence of some nasty littleSTD by product of your addiction. The logical response.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sophie55 said:


> I went through a very traumatic experience a few years ago that created a lot of insecurities in me that weren't there previously, and I think I developed behaviours and feelings consistent with "love addiction". At that time I think I was unknowingly incapable of having a healthy relationship, for the reason that the needs of someone in such a low state of mind and such a lack of love for themselves are just not compatible with the needs of another healthy individual. Actually I think when I was in that state of mind I attracted other unhealthy people and was turned off by "normal" men because they couldn't feed the need I had for constant intensity.
> 
> The process of changing for me was long and slow and painful, but it involved being single for quite a long time learning to love myself again and forgive myself for whatever it was I felt I had failed at. When I came to that point, I didn't feel like I "needed" love anymore the same way to be okay and I definitely felt much more capable of being patient and tolerant of other people because I didn't have this gaping void anymore for them to fill to make me feel better.
> 
> So the answer is really that I am not sure anyone is capable of having a truly healthy and happy relationship with someone else if their relationship with themselves is not truly happy and healthy. Which is such a cliche but from my own past experience I know when I have not been okay or felt okay with myself that the worst thing for me to do was try and be with someone else.


Really good observations on this post. A good group....this.
I learned a few things. The Martian? He is what he is.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

Sophie55 said:


> I went through a very traumatic experience a few years ago that created a lot of insecurities in me that weren't there previously, and I think I developed behaviours and feelings consistent with "love addiction". At that time I think I was unknowingly incapable of having a healthy relationship, for the reason that the needs of someone in such a low state of mind and such a lack of love for themselves are just not compatible with the needs of another healthy individual. Actually I think when I was in that state of mind I attracted other unhealthy people and was turned off by "normal" men because they couldn't feed the need I had for constant intensity.
> 
> The process of changing for me was long and slow and painful, but it involved being single for quite a long time learning to love myself again and forgive myself for whatever it was I felt I had failed at. When I came to that point, I didn't feel like I "needed" love anymore the same way to be okay and I definitely felt much more capable of being patient and tolerant of other people because I didn't have this gaping void anymore for them to fill to make me feel better.
> 
> So the answer is really that I am not sure anyone is capable of having a truly healthy and happy relationship with someone else if their relationship with themselves is not truly happy and healthy. Which is such a cliche but from my own past experience I know when I have not been okay or felt okay with myself that the worst thing for me to do was try and be with someone else.


Thank you for sharing your experience and giving me a better prespective as to how my ex-wife would have been feeling.

I would see this strong/confident woman when it was anything work related; which I always loved, but I would get confused because there would be this other side of her that would have such low self-esteem toward herself. Seeing her go from strong/confident to being needy/low self-esteem/emotionally dependant woman was hard for me to process. One of the things that made me fall in love with her was that strong/confident woman I saw, but the longer I was with her I found out that it wasn't the case. 

It was always a consistent struggle with my head and my heart, when she would make threats like "*it would be very easy for me to find someone else*" and "*I would never find someone as good as her*", but then on the other note she would be crying because she feels empty inside, nothing goes her way and would say things like "*God hates my guts*" and when she would cry it was always a soft spot for me and I would do anything to cheer her back up.

It was so hard for me to see the relationship she was seeing because I thought we were a great couple. And that's why to this day, I still have battles inside my head that maybe I could have loved her better, gave her more affection, etc. but I'm not sure if that would have been enough.

And the more she brought up this "I need more love/affection to be happy" topic, the more I saw her never being happy with me the way I was, the more scared I became and more doubt filled my head as to what my life would look like if we had kids together. Would her "love addiction" causes issues in the way she would be as a mother or towards me? I remember one time she told me that if we had kids she would feel "sad" because I would be showing the kids more love towards them than her, and I never thought that should be a normal feeling to have.

So each of these little things would start being little "red flags" in my head but my heart still loved her and that loving, kind, happy side of her when she was in that place. 

A part of me just wished she could just be happy with me and the relationship, but I guess if this is truly some for of "love addiction" it is easier said than done. But it also makes me sad if this is always going to be a "cycle" in her life with new relationships because she's a good person and it just sucks that she has a hard time really believing it and needing to depend on other people to make her happy.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

dennisg1 said:


> *Has anyone ever experienced someone who is a "love addict"?*


*Please enlighten us and define, as well as describe, the characteristics of a “love addict!”*


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

arbitrator said:


> *Please enlighten us and define, as well as describe, the characteristics of a “love addict!”*


I feel the article below does a good job of defining this. 



> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/healthy-connections/201012/how-break-the-pattern-love-addiction
> 
> Love addiction, however, is a compulsive, chronic craving and/or pursuit of romantic love in an effort to get our sense of security and worth from another person. During infatuation we believe we have that security only to be disappointed and empty again once the intensity fades. The negative consequences can be severe and yet the love addict continues to hang on to the belief that true love with fix everything.


For me, it always felt like there was a hole in her "love tank" and no matter how much was done she would want more and days when the reality of life gets in a way if I didn't consistently provide that "honeymoon euphoria" it would make her swing to very low empty points.


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## MikeinTexas (Dec 8, 2017)

Where has this thread been during my last few toxic years?!?
I ended a near 3 yr relationship with my GF six weeks ago. My therapist handed me an article titled, " Characteristics of a Relationship Addict". It's practically the same thing about love addicts. People who NEED love, attention, etc from others to fill the empty void in themselves. He compared it to an alcoholic addict. This NEED to be in a relationship.

She told me herself she had abandonment issues ( it was bad), her low self esteem and insecurities were toxic to our relationship. Nobody else would know it. Our friends and families saw her as a very smart woman who had a supervisor role with her job. She was really good at this. She would host parties at her place and would do anything for anyone. She would strive to give me affection, love, even lots of sex.
But I realize now that all these things had an unwritten agreement. She expected the same, if not more in return. And even with my best, it was never enough for her. She would make DEMANDS about putting her FIRST over my kids (we're previously divorced with 2 kids each).
She would be upset if I gave time towards my family when she felt in that moment, it should have been with her. She would get angry and we would have fights.

It was all about her feelings. She placed so much important about how she was feeling and my own feelings took a backseat.
She left a 19 year relationship and marriage with a narcissist/bipolar/alcoholic HB (supposedly) and jumped on my lap before the ink was dry on the divorce papers.

I should have known better.

We were to move in together and I suddenly got cold feet. Not cold towards staying in the relationship because I still wanted it, but more about the big life change, selling my home and belongings, my kids sharing rooms with hers, etc. 
This triggered her abandonment and caused her to react in a toxic behavior. It pushed me away and we broke up.

I came running back because I felt guilty for leaving her. I was hard on myself and blaming myself. It was all my fault. I can be better BF.
We got back together, but the feelings of abandonment & insecurity continued. She resented me for making her feel insecure and abandoned when we broke up...BIG TIME. It didn't matter if I loved her and did my best with her. 

She began to demand I change things about myself. Who I spent time with was a big one.

If she had her way, she was HAPPY. If not, she was unhappy and would hold a grudge. 
She would call our relationship "FAKE", because despite spending so much time together, I would have to leave back home (which was 5 min away) for the night because it was a school/work nite. Even this triggered abandonment in her!

Soon, I realized I was changing. I was becoming co-dependent with her. Yikes!

You mentioned you were concerned about things possibly escalating to her cheating. Well...

When we got back together, and with talks about moving in and marriage ( she believed this would fix all her problems). She said my beliefs on working on our issues before marriage was wrong because all marriages have issues. My therapist said all marriages will have some issues, but our issue was MAJOR. 

I discovered 6 weeks after we got back together (exclusively) that she never deleted/cancelled her dating accounts that she has used when we were broken up.

She hid this behind my back until I discovered it by chance, investigated and ultimately confronted her.

She trickle-truthed at the start and ultimately she said she liked the attention from other men on the dating sites and that she blamed me for it, saying I wasn't giving her enough attention and that I wasn't spending enough time with her. The she said we weren't in an exclusive marriage justifying her online dating behavior. It was also a backup plan for her.

While it appeared she only did it for the attention while we were together, I felt that the next time she felt I wasn't doing enough that she would take it another step further.

2 weeks later she finally apologized sincerely and even sent me an article about a type of relationship where one person is needy for love (because they don't love themselves) and the other person isn't assertive enough to call them out on their BS.

Despite her GIANT mistake, she asked if I was still ready to marry! I said, right now, NO. She then accused me of stringing her along. So I let her go. She was still in denial and blames me for what went wrong. I guess her sincere apology wasn't that sincere because she was likely only telling me what she believed I should hear.

I was assertive early on, but she was headstrong and determined to get her way and keep her abandonment and insecurities from ever being triggered.

She was never going to do the hard work to improve herself and find a solution to her abandonment & insecurities. Instead, she wanted ME to change myself to meet her UNHEALTHY needs. And even when I tried, I became unhappy because I was no longer true to myself. And I realized she did not truly love or accept me for the REAL me.

And you know what happened after I finally ended things and let her go? 2 days later she was back on those dating sites. TWO days! How much more PROOF do I need that she's a LOVE and RELATIONSHIP ADDICT who will never accept that we have to love ourselves first and not NEED, but maybe want a relationship.
They say an Ice cream Sundae can represent happiness, besides tasting good!
The Ice cream itself is our own inner happiness(the foundation) and the cherry on top is our outside relationship.
It's not the other way around.

You did the right thing brother. And I did too.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

Wow, just reading what you wrote reminds me so much of the same things I faced with my EX.



MikeinTexas said:


> Where has this thread been during my last few toxic years?!?
> I ended a near 3 yr relationship with my GF six weeks ago. My therapist handed me an article titled, " Characteristics of a Relationship Addict". It's practically the same thing about love addicts. People who NEED love, attention, etc from others to fill the empty void in themselves. He compared it to an alcoholic addict. This NEED to be in a relationship.


Do you still have the link to that "Characteristics of a Relationship Addict"?



> She told me herself she had abandonment issues ( it was bad), her low self esteem and insecurities were toxic to our relationship. Nobody else would know it. Our friends and families saw her as a very smart woman who had a supervisor role with her job. She was really good at this. She would host parties at her place and would do anything for anyone. She would strive to give me affection, love, even lots of sex.
> But I realize now that all these things had an unwritten agreement. She expected the same, if not more in return. And even with my best, it was never enough for her. She would make DEMANDS about putting her FIRST over my kids (we're previously divorced with 2 kids each).
> She would be upset if I gave time towards my family when she felt in that moment, it should have been with her. She would get angry and we would have fights.
> 
> ...


Yeah, these are very similar things that I experienced as well. I couldn't understand how easily she was able to portray this strong woman to everyone but I was the only one who really knew how empty she always felt inside. Her feeling always took number one priority in our relationship and drowned out all the other good things that we had.




> I came running back because I felt guilty for leaving her. I was hard on myself and blaming myself. It was all my fault. I can be better BF.
> We got back together, but the feelings of abandonment & insecurity continued. She resented me for making her feel insecure and abandoned when we broke up...BIG TIME. It didn't matter if I loved her and did my best with her.


Was your GF a big time crier?

I'm a big softie when it comes to tears so everytime she would fall apart I was always there to put her back together. I loved her so I always wanted to be there for her and when she showed me this softer side of her, it's the side that made me fall in love with her in the first place. 



> She trickle-truthed at the start and ultimately she said she liked the attention from other men on the dating sites and that she blamed me for it, saying I wasn't giving her enough attention and that I wasn't spending enough time with her. The she said we weren't in an exclusive marriage justifying her online dating behavior. It was also a backup plan for her.


We had conversations in the past where she would say to me "*and based on previous relationships I know if I'm not getting it with you I will look for it elsewhere*". So I would be like that doesn't make me feel good, you are basically saying if I'm not continuously filling your bottomless emotional tank that you will eventually cheat on me. It made no sense to me that she would say things like this to me and expect me to be more loving towards her. 

It's like me saying, you never want to have sex with me anymore; so if you keep on doing this I'm going to find it elsewhere so you better start having more sex with me before it gets to that point. I'm sure this would have went over well with her and she would have just started being more intimate with me again...yeah right!



> I was assertive early on, but she was headstrong and determined to get her way and keep her abandonment and insecurities from ever being triggered.
> 
> She was never going to do the hard work to improve herself and find a solution to her abandonment & insecurities. Instead, she wanted ME to change myself to meet her UNHEALTHY needs. And even when I tried, I became unhappy because I was no longer true to myself. And I realized she did not truly love or accept me for the REAL me.


Yes, at the beginning I was also assertive but she wasn't someone who was easy to argue with. She would escalate fights to such extremes, be condescending, and make it seem her way was the right way always and then 2 seconds later be crying uncontrollably. I always told her it's not easy to argue with you because you take it to such extremes over things that don't merit it.

That's another thing that bothered me about her; she was able to recognize her NEED for love, attention, etc from others to fill the empty void inside herself and she would say things like I'm sorry you're not enough for me the way you are. So instead of trying to fix herself, just like you experienced, she wanted me to change to meet her unhealthy needs.

One line that I would always get from her was "*I just want you to love me the same way that I love you*". My response would always be, why isn't the way I love you now never good enough. But now I wonder if all the love she said she truly had for me was just her way of making herself feel better. Because if she truly did love me the way she always use to say then she should have ended it with me as soon as she started her A instead of stringing me along for a year+ while doing this behind my back.



> And you know what happened after I finally ended things and let her go? 2 days later she was back on those dating sites. TWO days! How much more PROOF do I need that she's a LOVE and RELATIONSHIP ADDICT who will never accept that we have to love ourselves first and not NEED, but maybe want a relationship.
> They say an Ice cream Sundae can represent happiness, besides tasting good!
> The Ice cream itself is our own inner happiness(the foundation) and the cherry on top is our outside relationship.
> It's not the other way around.


You can see in my other thread below, my EX did end up cheating on me and now she is basically living with the other OM. This did anger me that she could go right into being with someone else after being with me for so long, but I guess it's true, love/relationship addicts are not strong enough to stand/be happy on their own and need someone to fill that void for them other than themselves.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...641-well-looks-like-we-will-parting-ways.html


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Love addict or not emotionally mature?
Either way RUN! They will drive you crazy.
Dated someone like that for a short period.
VERY VERY SHORT PERIOD


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## MikeinTexas (Dec 8, 2017)

Hey Dennisg,

I will do my best to answer your questions and apologies for my lack of using the editing tools! haha



> Do you still have the link to that "Characteristics of a Relationship Addict"?


I'm afraid not. It's from a book and my therapist made hardcopies of some of the pages he felt were pertinent to my ex gf. The book is by Stephen Arterburn called, "When you love too much". Crazy title, eh? Anyways, when I'm back to work I can make copies of and send it to you.



> Was your GF a big time crier?


Sometimes. She claimed she used to be the "Ice Queen" with relationships and people. But with me, she did begin to cry more, but I received more anger than crying from her. However, when I confronted her about the online shady BS and after her excuses, I said I was leaving to have some time to myself for the remainder of the day. She wailed begging me not to go and it was the first time she ever was like that. I nailed a huge trigger for her. And yes, I was a softie too. I couldn't leave and ended up consoling her. 



> It's like me saying, you never want to have sex with me anymore; so if you keep on doing this I'm going to find it elsewhere so you better start giving me more sex before it gets to that point.


Sex to her was a way to convince her that she was wanted by me. So she needed it a lot. And would let me know if it had been too long (like a week or so). Don't get me wrong, we had sex. A LOT. But one time, she made a comment about needing to have more of an emotional conversation/connection before sex because otherwise, " SHE COULD F**K ANYONE SHE WANTS". I understand the emotional connection needed and she was trying to suggest that lacking an emotional connection means that it's more like a hook up which is "easier"? I don't think she was suggesting she was going to do that, but that to her an emotional connection is special vs not. But boy did that comment hurt regardless. It just didn't come out right.



> she would say things like I'm sorry you're not enough for me the way you are


Holy smokes. Are we talking about the same girl? And my EX would make a comment that maybe " she was too much for me". She felt her NYC attitude was too much for my Southern comfort.


> One line that I would always get from her was "I just want you to love me the same way that I love you". My response would always be, why isn't the way I love you now never good enough. But now I wonder if all the love she said she truly had for me was just her way of making herself feel better


I know the feeling. She never said it in those exact words, but that was what she was expecting as well. And now, in retrospect, I get the feeling it was for making herself feel better too. Ouch.

I'm sorry you were cheated on. I was too in my marriage and it hurt like...well I guess you know what it feels like. And that's what makes me even more disapointed in my ex gf. She KNEW what cheating, unfaithfulness and dishonesty is like for me and how painful it was for me when I told her the stories. But that was 3 years before we started dating. I took time to be alone and by myself (best thing I ever did). And I was able to trust again.
My ex gf was the type that did not trust anyone and thought I was naive. Turned out she was not trusting me. Not because I did anything shady ( I never did any shady ****. And I sure as hell wouldn't want someone to go thru the same thing I did), but because it was another unresolved issue from her marriage. 

That's the problem with jumping into another relationship so fast. It puts a band aid, but sooner or later, the band aid comes off. Our EXs are in a dysfunctional relationship that you and I would and should never be a part of. 


Also, the below is a link my ex gf sent me a couple weeks before we broke up. It described us pretty well. She acknowledged her issues and also pointed out mine. So there were definitely things I could have done, like be more assertive and put up boundaries....and I had tried this before but I still was actively trying to improve on them. The Problem was.... I think my EX really wanted me to do more of the lifting because mine paled in comparison to her MAJOR issues. She didn't want to do any heavy lifting.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/margaret-paul-phd/emotionally-dependent-_b_1469460.html

Oh! I just ready your article about Breaking the Love Addiction. I bookmarked it after reading it. My EX to a "T". It also made me laugh out loud about waiting 6 months. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with the length of time. It's just comparing the article's recommendation and the 2 days my EX took before jumping back in.


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## MikeinTexas (Dec 8, 2017)

Oh, sorry ....one more thing. Did you notice these issues of hers BEFORE you got married? And if so, did marriage help some or did it stay the same, or worse?

My friends tell me marriage would not have made it better and as a matter of fact, marriage can make things a bit more complex!

Also, the outcome of your EX WF cheating was what I was greatly worried about in the future with her. I could see my EX taking the next step from emotional cheating (which was the last straw for me) to physical cheating if I stayed in the relationship.

After my last marriage, I wasn't about to go through that again.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

MikeinTexas -

Classic, textbook stuff, my man. 

The part about the ex husband, yeah...I wouldn't believe that. 

To hear my ex tell it, all of her exes were abusive, narcissists, blah blah blah. Well, long story short, that was all pure projection. I learned on my own after I left that her exes had left her for the same reasons I had - she's a raging Narcissist.

I'm glad you got off that merry-go-round of abusive.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

dennisg1 said:


> We have been having the same argument since the beginning of the relationship and it always went something like this that "*I didn't love her the same way she loved me*". That in a nutshell has been the collapse of my marriage and for her ultimately having a year long affair behind my back.
> 
> I always thought we had a good marriage and I felt the love/affection I showed her was normal, but the more she kept on bringing this up made me feel more withdrawn because it got to the point where I always felt I wasn't good enough or I wasn't loving her enough...*it felt I could never quench her thirst for affection. *


You didn't give specifics to her statement, so I wonder if she did. How do you know it was affection she was referring to? Did she say that specifically, or did you infer it? If she didn't say, it may be that you thought she meant affection but she actually meant something different, in which case you were trying to quench what you thought her thirst was without knowing there was something else she was asking for. Therefore, she never received what she needed because you focused on affection.

So please clarify if she stated affection is what she wanted from you.



dennisg1 said:


> And it always felt she loved so much more for her own selfish reasons to make herself happy and not really for me.


I'm not sure what you mean by that. She loved you for herself but didn't show love toward you?


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

MikeinTexas said:


> Hey Dennisg,
> I'm afraid not. It's from a book and my therapist made hardcopies of some of the pages he felt were pertinent to my ex gf. The book is by Stephen Arterburn called, "When you love too much". Crazy title, eh? Anyways, when I'm back to work I can make copies of and send it to you.


Ok, thank you!



MikeinTexas said:


> Sex to her was a way to convince her that she was wanted by me. So she needed it a lot. And would let me know if it had been too long (like a week or so). Don't get me wrong, we had sex. A LOT. But one time, she made a comment about needing to have more of an emotional conversation/connection before sex because otherwise, " SHE COULD F**K ANYONE SHE WANTS". I understand the emotional connection needed and she was trying to suggest that lacking an emotional connection means that it's more like a hook up which is "easier"? I don't think she was suggesting she was going to do that, but that to her an emotional connection is special vs not. But boy did that comment hurt regardless. It just didn't come out right.


Ouch, yes that would have been hurtful to hear. I've had examples of feeling the same thing, and I would always tell her it's not "what" you are saying to me, it's "how" you are saying it to me that's hurtful and making me start to put up walls.



MikeinTexas said:


> I'm sorry you were cheated on. I was too in my marriage and it hurt like...well I guess you know what it feels like. And that's what makes me even more disappointed in my ex gf. She KNEW what cheating, unfaithfulness and dishonesty is like for me and how painful it was for me when I told her the stories. But that was 3 years before we started dating. I took time to be alone and by myself (best thing I ever did). And I was able to trust again.
> My ex gf was the type that did not trust anyone and thought I was naive. Turned out she was not trusting me. Not because I did anything shady ( I never did any shady ****. And I sure as hell wouldn't want someone to go thru the same thing I did), but because it was another unresolved issue from her marriage.


Yes, I trusted my EX blindly which is something I don't regret. I never wanted to be the guy that would be hovering over and always thinking that she was doing something because it just doesn't make for a healthy relationship. What I was most disappointed in her was the lip service she would give me like "I love you to much to ever want to hurt you", really? So you love me so much that instead of divorcing me as soon as you were checked out, you wanted to have an A for over a year; I guess we have different definitions of what love is.

Then after I found out about the cheating it was more lip service in her saying "someone better than me deserves your love who won't take it for granted or sabotage it". Just more of her playing the victim role, which would annoy me.

We didn't have any kids, but I find it strange that she still wants to have a connection with me, saying things like "you mean to much to me to not have you be a part of my life anymore", really? If I was so important to you I think you could have handled things a lot better.



MikeinTexas said:


> That's the problem with jumping into another relationship so fast. It puts a band aid, but sooner or later, the band aid comes off. Our EXs are in a dysfunctional relationship that you and I would and should never be a part of.


Yes, I don't know where this relationship with the OM is going to go for her but it just doesn't seem healthy to me. If it was this guy she wanted to be with then I would never hear from her or maybe she would have ended it with me as soon as this A started. It's obviously still hard as I go through this process; some days are better than others, but the constant sting I always feel is knowing that she is basically living with this OM and makes me feel like he basically took my spot that I held for so long. I will always miss her and the life I had with her because I was happy but if she wasn't happy with me then why would I want to continue to be with someone that doesn't really want to be with me.



MikeinTexas said:


> Also, the below is a link my ex gf sent me a couple weeks before we broke up. It described us pretty well. She acknowledged her issues and also pointed out mine. So there were definitely things I could have done, like be more assertive and put up boundaries....and I had tried this before but I still was actively trying to improve on them. The Problem was.... I think my EX really wanted me to do more of the lifting because mine paled in comparison to her MAJOR issues. She didn't want to do any heavy lifting.
> 
> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/margaret-paul-phd/emotionally-dependent-_b_1469460.html


Yeah, I don't know exactly what stage I'm in but I guess I've been doing more self-reflection on things that I could have done more of. I can takes some of these lessons into my next relationship, but I have to fight those thoughts off because in the end I believe I was a pretty good husband and I don't regret the way I was towards her. I don't want her insecurities to make me become a different person in my next relationship and make me feel like I wasn't good enough. 



MikeinTexas said:


> Oh, sorry ....one more thing. Did you notice these issues of hers BEFORE you got married? And if so, did marriage help some or did it stay the same, or worse?
> 
> My friends tell me marriage would not have made it better and as a matter of fact, marriage can make things a bit more complex!


Yes, this was always a recurring issue in our relationship. It was always about her needs and what her expectations of a marriage should look like. I should have seen the warning signs beforehand but when things were good, I thought we were both happy, and it felt like the love was there; so everything felt good until she was unhappy again. 

She would say things to me that would would allow "doubt" to creep into the relationship when I thought there wasn't any. Like I did this elaborate planned out engagement which took a lot of time to get just right and even had it professionally videod. Then when the dust settled she would say things like I don't want you to think that you gave me this beautiful ring and now you "got me" and don't have to try anymore. 

I don't know where this came from, I never felt like I ever stopped trying or felt like I "got her" with the proposal. I proposed to her because I loved her and wanted to share my life with her and in her head it was still not enough, the courting period seemed like it was never ending; in hindsight, I wish I could go back to that and be like "why did you say yes then?".

Sorry for rambling, back to your question, all the marriage did was be a distraction for both of us. It was fun time for both of us and did bring us closer together as we went through this process, and after we were married things were good but it felt like a drug; as things started to settle down it would always go back to the same issues as before and her unhappiness.



MikeinTexas said:


> Also, the outcome of your EX WF cheating was what I was greatly worried about in the future with her. I could see my EX taking the next step from emotional cheating (which was the last straw for me) to physical cheating if I stayed in the relationship.
> 
> After my last marriage, I wasn't about to go through that again.


Yes, and that's exactly how I felt. The more she would say to me, would start making me second guess our relationship and I wouldn't feel safe in seeing a life long marriage with her because she would eventually cheat on me.



StarFires said:


> You didn't give specifics to her statement, so I wonder if she did. How do you know it was affection she was referring to? Did she say that specifically, or did you infer it? If she didn't say, it may be that you thought she meant affection but she actually meant something different, in which case you were trying to quench what you thought her thirst was without knowing there was something else she was asking for. Therefore, she never received what she needed because you focused on affection.
> 
> So please clarify if she stated affection is what she wanted from you.


Yes, it was more affection because she would specifically say it. She always craved that "honeymoon period" and would joke (half serious) that she only got 5 months of the honeymoon period with me. The more times she would say this the more annoying it got because I was like if it's so bad why are you still with me 2, 4, 6, etc years later into the relationship. I know relationships evolve and grow into stronger bonds/partnerships and it's never like the "honeymoon period" but that doesn't mean my love towards her didn't grow. I viewed her as my life partner someone that I could trust and would always be by my side. However, I always did my best to do sweet/thoughtful things for her to always show her that I cared about her and that she was always on my mind; even when life gets in the way.



StarFires said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by that. She loved you for herself but didn't show love toward you?


Yes, she did show love towards me; that was something that came very easy to her maybe because she craved so much of it. And I have to believe that she did truly/genuinely love me but it's hard to believe this now after the cheating and betrayal of hiding this from me for so long. That's where I go back and think was the love she was showing me in some ways for her own selfish reasons to fill the void she would constantly feel. I might not have been as verbally affectionate as she was but there is a big disconnect in what she was saying to me and what she was doing behind my back. I could never do something like that to her because the guilt would just eat at me; I believe loyalty, honesty, respect, affection, intimacy, etc. are some of the things that give the word "love" meaning. In the end it just seems she isn't "emotionally healthy/mature" and if it didn't happen now it sure was going to happen in the future; especially if we ended up having kids together.


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## MikeinTexas (Dec 8, 2017)

> Ouch, yes that would have been hurtful to hear. I've had examples of feeling the same thing, and I would always tell her it's not "what" you are saying to me, it's "how" you are saying it to me that's hurtful and making me start to put up walls.


Yes! I have said the EXACT same response with her. It's how she would say things, not "what". It's in her "TONE" of voice too. 
But she would dismiss it by saying she was entitled to her feelings and then would use the , " Maybe I'm too much for you" referring to her East Coast/NYC attitude and my "nice guy" southern attitude. Kinda like, it's my problem that my feelings are hurt. She has said things that made me feel hurt, and she would comment that I was " being too butt-hurt". Like, since I'm a guy, I shouldn't be a p***y. Yet, if I did something that upset, she would turn into a hypocrite.
I know we are responsible for how we feel, but we also shouldn't tolerate any form of disrespect either, no matter how subtle. And yes, it was things like this that started to push me away. 

When we reconciled after one of our breakups, I expressed I felt she was controlling, which she was when she felt she wasn't getting her way. And her jealousy was toxic as well. 

I realized that a lot of her jealousy would be kept at bay if she reacted by being controlling. So when I wanted her to be happy and avoid confrontation, I would give in not realizing I was strengthening her toxic behavior. 

You sound like a good guy and husband. And it was you who was the healthy one in the relationship.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

MikeinTexas said:


> You sound like a good guy and husband. And it was you who was the healthy one in the relationship.


Yeah, it just sucks because I did love her but she made our relationship so much harder than it should have been and started making me second guess every little thing. I know relationships require work but this was something that in time would have ended things for us down the road when things would have even been more complicated. 

My only regret is not pulling out of the relationship earlier, instead staying and trying to meet her needs and it never being enough or not to her expectations. 

I feel expectations play a big role in relationships and there are so many good sayings around this, one that I like is "When you release expectations, you are free to enjoy things for what they are instead of what you think they should be".


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## MikeinTexas (Dec 8, 2017)

> Yeah, it just sucks because I did love her but she made our relationship so much harder than it should have been and started making me second guess every little thing. I know relationships require work but this was something that in time would have ended things for us down the road when things would have even been more complicated.
> 
> My only regret is not pulling out of the relationship earlier, instead staying and trying to meet her needs and it never being enough or not to her expectations.
> 
> I feel expectations play a big role in relationships and there are so many good sayings around this, one that I like is "When you release expectations, you are free to enjoy things for what they are instead of what you think they should be".


I LOVE that saying. Our relationship ended up this way. Now that I think about it, this happened around month 6 or so into our relationship. And her demands/unreasonable expectation had me heading to the door, literally. In hindsight, it was my gut telling me to RUN! But she was a good talker and convinced me to stay and listen to her. She was convincing enough for me to make changes about myself that had me grow unhappy and later resented MYSELF for allowing it. My assertiveness was lacking.
I feel exactly the same way. I suddenly was walking on egg-shells making sure whatever I said did not upset her. She no longer trusted me that I was "into her" or 'loved her" because I wasn't moving fast enough with moving my kids and I in with her and proposing to her. Her resentment towards me because of this grew inside her and the worse it got, it only pushed me more away and convince me more and more that we were not ready to take that next step. 
But the less time (in her eyes) I spent with her, it was me not meeting her EXPECTATIONS. And she let me know about it! 

You're right. It should not have to be this HARD! And second guessing was rampant too. I just couldn't feel..."Natural" or "Relaxed".

It was always a BIG issue of me wanting to work on our issues ( her abandonment/jealousy/resentment/projections/addiction and my avoidance and lack of assertiveness). Our relationship had become TOXIC because of this. She felt marriage would FIX this ( her:besides all marriages have issues!) and I felt "fixing" it BEFORE marriage was best. Maybe those were my expectations too, wanting to have a toxic-free relationship BEFORE we get married.


Didn't you say you guys have had breakups before? If so, I'm curious what that looked like and if it was similar to mine.


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## MikeinTexas (Dec 8, 2017)

It just hit me and I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but could my therapist and I be wrong about her relationship/love addiction??

We broke up a total of 3 times (I initiated it each time). And each time, I came back to her (after several weeks) and she never attempted to contact me during that time. This last one has been 6 weeks with no contact (which is good, don't get me wrong). And no, I have not, nor will not crawl back to her.

Her reason was that she vowed never to chase men again...and her friends tell her it's faster to get over someone by going under so.... 

So does that mean she's not necessarily a relationship/love addict because she never made an attempt to contact me or attempt to get back together after breaking up?

The only thing I would add is that she was on dating sites and talking with men within days of our breakup, so maybe she is a relationship addict but it doesn't have to be with me, her former lover? Maybe she thinks I'll come crawling back for a 3rd time too?


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

MikeinTexas said:


> It just hit me and I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but could my therapist and I be wrong about her relationship/love addiction??
> 
> We broke up a total of 3 times (I initiated it each time). And each time, I came back to her (after several weeks) and she never attempted to contact me during that time. This last one has been 6 weeks with no contact (which is good, don't get me wrong). And no, I have not, nor will not crawl back to her.
> 
> ...


She sounds like the narcissistic type of love addict. They are more likely to seek many sources of narcissistic supply.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

MikeinTexas said:


> I LOVE that saying. Our relationship ended up this way. Now that I think about it, this happened around month 6 or so into our relationship. And her demands/unreasonable expectation had me heading to the door, literally. In hindsight, it was my gut telling me to RUN! But she was a good talker and convinced me to stay and listen to her. She was convincing enough for me to make changes about myself that had me grow unhappy and later resented MYSELF for allowing it. My assertiveness was lacking.
> I feel exactly the same way. I suddenly was walking on egg-shells making sure whatever I said did not upset her. She no longer trusted me that I was "into her" or 'loved her" because I wasn't moving fast enough with moving my kids and I in with her and proposing to her. Her resentment towards me because of this grew inside her and the worse it got, it only pushed me more away and convince me more and more that we were not ready to take that next step.
> But the less time (in her eyes) I spent with her, it was me not meeting her EXPECTATIONS. And she let me know about it!
> 
> ...


No, we never had breakups during our relationship/marriage. Towards the end she was pushing to try a separation, which I never believed in because I didn't feel time away from each other would necessarily bring us closer. 

In my situation, it was just the same constant discussion/argument where I needed to meet her expectations. I feel the more she saw to bring out / create issues in our relationship/marriage when there wasn't really any and the way she talked to me made my subconscious / intuition feel differently about us and lose the trust that I had for us long term. 



MikeinTexas said:


> It just hit me and I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but could my therapist and I be wrong about her relationship/love addiction??
> 
> We broke up a total of 3 times (I initiated it each time). And each time, I came back to her (after several weeks) and she never attempted to contact me during that time. This last one has been 6 weeks with no contact (which is good, don't get me wrong). And no, I have not, nor will not crawl back to her.
> 
> ...


I think she still is a relationship/love addict and just like you mentioned; she doesn't necessarily need to crawl back to you but find anyone that's willing to be her next host that she can latch on. 

The way my EX described it once is she would take it from any avenue she can find it if it makes her feel better. That just makes me feel so sad for her, that she just can't be by herself for a bit and find happiness within herself instead of having to be with someone so quickly to bring her happiness.


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## Glamdaring (Apr 3, 2018)

Love addiction sounds a lot like co-dependence to me. I was co-dependent. Probably still am to a mild degree, though I fight it with every fiber of my being. If someone derives their self-worth from another person, that's a zero sum game and never healthy. A person only has so much to give, and if their self worth is a black hole of co-dependence they'll never feel they are getting back as much as they give. Eventually they'll run out of give. I know, been there. A co-dependent person must change for themselves, and find worth, and happiness within themselves and within who they are before they can even begin to contribute healthily to a relationship, and find happiness with another person.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

Glamdaring said:


> Love addiction sounds a lot like co-dependence to me. I was co-dependent. Probably still am to a mild degree, though I fight it with every fiber of my being. If someone derives their self-worth from another person, that's a zero sum game and never healthy. A person only has so much to give, and if their self worth is a black hole of co-dependence *they'll never feel they are getting back as much as they give*. Eventually they'll run out of give. I know, been there. A co-dependent person must change for themselves, and find worth, and happiness within themselves and within who they are before they can even begin to contribute healthily to a relationship, and find happiness with another person.


Your sentence above definitely strikes a chord with me from discussions I would have with my EX. 

My EX would always make me feel like she was doing so much more than I was, and one of her lines would be "_*I just want you to love me the same way I love you*_"; which I would reply "*why is there something wrong with us loving differently?*" and "*why isn't the way I show you love not good enough for you?*"


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