# Last chances are always the hardest



## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Well, this may only be a last chance in my eyes... 

So... starting at the beginning...

My wife of 4 years recently told me she wanted me to leave. Kind of confusing for me as I thought things were going alright. Not great mind you, but alright. 10 months ago we were at a point similar to this and we were able to work through stuff without separation and with the help of a therapist. 

She told me that I am not he guy she thought I was 5 years ago when we first met. We would talk on the phone all the time and text like we were teenagers. Then when she moved in with me, things changed. I went from being a bachelor to the man of the house with her and her three children. My world was flipped upside down. No matter how much I thought I was ready for the responsibility, it still was not easy. We argued over parenting styles and often she won. but me, as stubborn as a guy can be would still try to figure out why my way simply did not work.

I also had trouble expressing my love in any other form then just simply saying I love you. I was and still am not very good at holding hands, snuggling, sweet small talk, etc... My conversation skills are lacking. I am overly sarcastic and do things with the best of intentions but often fall short of those good intentions. She knew I had these traits too, but they overshadowed the traits she loved about me before we lived together.

I just moved out this weekend, moved in with some family. We have gone to a counselor in the past and have even met with our pastor. She doesn't see what we can do right now and feels it is more important to focus on the relationship with her children. Her children haven't had it the easiest. Their dad passed away 6 months before I met her and as they have grown they have had to learn to deal with that issue. She gets frustrated with how I parent them. Since my communication skills are not up to snuff my relationship with them has suffered as well. 

I have honored her wish for me to leave the house and to give her space to focus on herself and children. I in the mean time will continue to spend time with them as I help coach the softball team and want to show them that it is important to hold up your commitments even when things are tough. I will also be taking time to focus on myself and see if I can work through some of my shortcomings in the relationship. I realize that I cannot fix "us" if I am still broken. I am going to a therapist at least once a week. I have been reading self help and relationship books in hopes that I will get some ideas in how to move forward with better communication and expressing my feelings and emotions. I know where I need to do work, I just fear that I will fall flat on my face. And maybe that is what will happen a few times along the way. If I can learn from where I stumble, I will hopefully learn to pick up my feet over those obstacles the next time I am presented with them.

I want nothing more then to share my life with my wife and children. they mean the world to me. I am miserable without them being around me. My friends tell me to keep the faith and give her space and work on me. If it is meant to be it will work itself out. Fingers crossed that it does.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I am truly sorry you are here

whose name is the house in?

do you think there may be POSOM in picture?

what are your ages? children? any with her?


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

The house is in both our names. Not sure what at POSOM is, I'm 32 and she is 30, 4 girls, youngest was with me. 

She tells me she still loves me. She says she can't expend energy on us when the kids need more of her attention.


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## needing_affection (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, I feel for you bud. Im going through a similar situation right now too. My wife left 3 weeks ago with our daughter and wants to focus on their relationship for now and take a break from ours which has been constant arguing. We had 2 weeks of no contact which was recommended by the MC. Back to talking a little now. So I know it sucks and hurts, but hang in there. It will get better...

I believe POSOM means piece of sh*t other man...but I may be wrong.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

What is the equity build-up on house? None, little, etc

posom is what was said above

going to IC is good, what do you want from this?

If you want R, what would you want to change?

is either pushing for filing for D yet?


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Honestly, don't beat yourself up for the reasons she's using. None of us are the same as we were 5 years ago. People change, sometimes it's for the best, sometimes for the worse, but we learn to adapt. I always think it's important to look at your role in why the marriage is failing, but realize you only play a 50% role, and the fault does not rest solely on your shoulders. You've already taken a massive step in moving out. This is what she wanted and you have provided her with that. Don't lower yourself to beg or plead with her to have you back. We are all better than this. Instead of having 3 primary focuses in life, Wife, You, Kids.... You now have 2. That means you have more time to focus on your kids, and more importantly, more time to focus on yourself. It's hard though, many of us forget who we are, what we like to do, but it's just a matter of getting out there and doing something. Start at the gym, everyone could use a self-confidence boost, and just work on things from there. Best of luck.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> What is the equity build-up on house? None, little, etc
> 
> posom is what was said above
> 
> ...


We have only had the house for just over a year, equity is basically 0.

No other guy that I know of, just wants to focus her energy elsewhere.

I hope to be able to get some insight into how I can communicate better, not just with her, but in general. 

I do want to R. But the only way that will happen is if I can work on my communication and work on my self esteem. The low self esteem has really buried the traits that she loved about me early on.

neither is ready to file. We have a lot to figure out before we can get there. That buys me some time to see if there is something to work out or not.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

needing_affection said:


> Wow, I feel for you bud. Im going through a similar situation right now too. My wife left 3 weeks ago with our daughter and wants to focus on their relationship for now and take a break from ours which has been constant arguing. We had 2 weeks of no contact which was recommended by the MC. Back to talking a little now. So I know it sucks and hurts, but hang in there. It will get better...
> 
> I believe POSOM means piece of sh*t other man...but I may be wrong.


Good luck. I hope that the time apart was what you needed in order for you both to come to the table with open minds.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Honestly, don't beat yourself up for the reasons she's using. None of us are the same as we were 5 years ago. People change, sometimes it's for the best, sometimes for the worse, but we learn to adapt. I always think it's important to look at your role in why the marriage is failing, but realize you only play a 50% role, and the fault does not rest solely on your shoulders. You've already taken a massive step in moving out. This is what she wanted and you have provided her with that. Don't lower yourself to beg or plead with her to have you back. We are all better than this. Instead of having 3 primary focuses in life, Wife, You, Kids.... You now have 2. That means you have more time to focus on your kids, and more importantly, more time to focus on yourself. It's hard though, many of us forget who we are, what we like to do, but it's just a matter of getting out there and doing something. Start at the gym, everyone could use a self-confidence boost, and just work on things from there. Best of luck.


I realize that it is not all my fault. And I will not begin to try to fix her or us without looking at myself first. There are things about myself I want to address... if not for her, then for someone else down the road. No matter what, I plan to better myself in this process. I would love to R with my wife, and that is my goal as of now. Only time will tell.


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## Zomb (Aug 12, 2013)

Hopefulbuthonest, sorry you are here man. As you want to reconcile with your wife I will recommend you to read some books that will help you during this (long and tough) process: "Crumbling Commitment" and "Divorce Busting" is a good place to start. However, as it was said above, it is important (extremely necessary I will say) that you can 100pc sure there is no OM in the picture. Not because if there is someone you shouldn’t reconcile, but rather because your approach to the problem must be different in that case. Do all you can to be sure about that. And remember, even if there is no one now doesn’t mean that someone could enter in her life in the near future, so never low your guard in this regard until she fully recommit to work in your relationship. Best of the luck man.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Zomb said:


> Hopefulbuthonest, sorry you are here man. As you want to reconcile with your wife I will recommend you to read some books that will help you during this (long and tough) process: "Crumbling Commitment" and "Divorce Busting" is a good place to start. However, as it was said above, it is important (extremely necessary I will say) that you can 100pc sure there is no OM in the picture. Not because if there is someone you shouldn’t reconcile, but rather because your approach to the problem must be different in that case. Do all you can to be sure about that. And remember, even if there is no one now doesn’t mean that someone could enter in her life in the near future, so never low your guard in this regard until she fully recommit to work in your relationship. Best of the luck man.


Thanks for the books. I will definitely look into them. At this point I am sure there is no other man in the picture. I will pay attention to any changes to that in the future. I asked her yesterday to take two weeks with NC so we can focus on ourselves and the girls. My therapist said it is a good idea and that it gives time to reflect on what has happened. I know it is not going to be easy. I've talked to her everyday without fail for the past 5 plus years. And I love her more then anything. We set up a schedule for me to see the kids over the next two weeks so it is easy for me to have time with them without needing to call her up and ask. I am very aware that this situation could possibly not work out for me. I have decided that no matter what, I will continue to be true to who I am and not become an alien unto myself.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

How can you do NC when there are kids involved? I just dropped the girls at the door after practice and didn't go in or anything. Made sure they went into the house and went home. I want to FaceTime them before bed but my wife said no because they didn't do well with that yesterday. So I don't even get to say goodnight at bed time.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> How can you do NC when there are kids involved? I just dropped the girls at the door after practice and didn't go in or anything. Made sure they went into the house and went home. I want to FaceTime them before bed but my wife said no because they didn't do well with that yesterday. So I don't even get to say goodnight at bed time.


I know how you feel, it takes some getting used to. I don't think your wife should deny you the right to say goodnight to the kids, but typically when my wife picks the kids up, I say my goodbye's and goodnights right then and there. If she's understanding, you should be able to to call and say goodnight though.

In regards to NC, us guys with kids have to use a modified version. Of coarse, it is important to discuss matters related to the children. It's also important to discuss other issues such as finances etc. So basically, what NC means for us, is that we do not discuss the relationship. We don't act like friends. You don't text to ask how the other is feeling. You work on YOU and and focus on your kids. You become a better man. You become THE man, the only man, the best man.

I did this, and my wife realized she was making a mistake. Now I'm forced to make a choice on whether I still want to be with her or not, a choice I'm not sure I'm ready to make quite yet.

Best of luck.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Thanks. I was really struggling with this process. I did say goodbye to the two kids I dropped off. One of the others went out with a friend after softball and the other was at the house already. So I did not get to say goodnight to either of them. My wife said I could talk to them other times in the day, but bedtime and calming them down after since they miss me isn't working.

For the record, I didn't want to move out and them taking me not being there is even harder on me when I hear stuff like that. 

I plan to continue working on me to be the best possible version of myself. For me and the kids. If she decided to come along for the ride, great. If not, well I have some soul searching there.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> Thanks. I was really struggling with this process. I did say goodbye to the two kids I dropped off. One of the others went out with a friend after softball and the other was at the house already. So I did not get to say goodnight to either of them. My wife said I could talk to them other times in the day, but bedtime and calming them down after since they miss me isn't working.
> 
> For the record, I didn't want to move out and them taking me not being there is even harder on me when I hear stuff like that.
> 
> I plan to continue working on me to be the best possible version of myself. For me and the kids. If she decided to come along for the ride, great. If not, well I have some soul searching there.


My own advice to you would be to stop thinking about her is if your going to do something that's going to make her come back. Like you said " If she decided to come along for the ride, great". That's wishful thinking, and won't help your process. Go for the ride, but leave her behind.

I really wanted my wife back too, in everyway possible. Through alot of soul searching and reading TAM etc. I realized I needed to move on. I need to go on a ride all by myself. If she wanted to jump on, I would kick her off until my ride is done. Then, and only then, would I consider inviting her with me on the next ride.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> My own advice to you would be to stop thinking about her is if your going to do something that's going to make her come back. Like you said " If she decided to come along for the ride, great". That's wishful thinking, and won't help your process. Go for the ride, but leave her behind.
> 
> I really wanted my wife back too, in everyway possible. Through alot of soul searching and reading TAM etc. I realized I needed to move on. I need to go on a ride all by myself. If she wanted to jump on, I would kick her off until my ride is done. Then, and only then, would I consider inviting her with me on the next ride.


I hear what you are saying and I want to take that advice. I don't know how to decide to leave her behind. She and the girls have been my life for the past 5 years. I have made so many concessions along the way I don't know what to do without them.

I can't just cut her out because of my child with her. I feel a strong connection with my step children as well. he look to me as their dad because their biological father passed away. My focus needs to be on my daughter and me. But I feel guilty that I would be abandoning them.

She has sent some mixed signals. She misses me and still loves me. She's told people that. She then goes and tells me she is trying to get a loan to buyout our loan for the house. And she asked for child support when we are supposed to be doing joint custody. We did not go see anyone to set up the terms of the separation. I took her for her word that things would be civil. Now she tells me I cannot call the kids at bedtime because they crumble after they are done talking to me. 

I didn't ask for this. They think I left them. I was asked to leave. I did what I thought was right for saving our marriage. Now I'm thinking I messed up big time. I know only time will tell and I have to do what I can for myself. but this is a lot harder then I thought it would be the day I moved out.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Had my first time where all the kids slept over for the night. they fought a lot and then felt guilty because they only get to spend so much time with me. Its tough. I just want to tell them it will all be alright. And I do. But it doesn't make them feel better. They know I love them and would do anything for them. They just don't understand why I am no longer living with them 

I am trying hard to work on me. I am finishing up the book I bought called "Fight Less, Love More" which will help me with my communication skills. I picked up "The 5 Love Languages" and "Divorce Busting" from the library and will start to work on them next. I do want to R with my wife. But if that does not work, at least I'll have myself in better shape to succeed in my next relationship. 

I have been hitting the gym and only in contact with my wife if it has something to do with the kids. I have been thinking positive. I have been going to IC and meeting with my pastor. I have had a couple appointments with a holistic chiropractor who says that we can heal ourselves when we learn to deal with our emotions and what we repress. So I am doing what I can for myself. Just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Did she do anything wrong?

What was your childhood like?

How about hers?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Through your counselor, would she give you a list of things she wants changed and did you give her a list of things she needs to change? 

What does your counselor say about the drama with the children and how to improve that?

It is good that you are hitting the gym. That will help your mind with some of the problems. 

I hope things improve for you.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

It has been civil up to this point. Expect it to get dirty.

Do you agree with being told when you can / can not call your child?

You have to be NC for her to miss you

The reason why we ask about POSOM is they all follow pattern

yours is fitting the pattern

-You do this and that wrong- yet she mentions nothing of her faults

..........where oh where have I heard that before???

Suggestion.....if you pay or share cell bill....get the call history from company

get a VAR and slide it under her car seat

keylogger for computer

While you "work on you" it may be prudent to see if she is "working on her" 

this will be a major portion of deciding to R or not

I wish you the best


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Did she do anything wrong?
> 
> What was your childhood like?
> 
> How about hers?


We all make mistakes and help cause the issues we have in a relationship. I wanted more quality time but with four kids and a job that requires I go to bed when the kids are still getting ready for bed does not allow for the time during the week that we had before my shift changed. She always was on her phone texting. Even when we were in the middle of conversations. Some of the time it was guys and some time it was women. She has had guys that she had started to get emotionally attached to and then they have backed off from talking.

I know on here that is a warning sign, but we talked through that stuff when it would come up. She flat out told me when we had our separation talk that she talks to others because I don't communicate well enough for her at this point. She's right. And I'm making progress to improve that. 

My childhood was good. I have realized issues from there that affect me now and I am working on them. My parents set high standards for me and would let me know when I didn't do as well as I could have. they weren't the best at showing their love and it has carried over into my life. I am learning more to show my love through words and hugs and other means. She told me that she wished I had seen these things earlier and had been working on them a year ago. 

Her childhood was tough. Her mom and dad got divorced because her dad had addiction problems and abused her mom. Her mom moved around a lot and has tons of health issues. Her mom lived with us as well. I helped see her through two knee replacements in the 4 and a half years we lived together. Her mom has been disabled since the 90s. My wife was a teen mom who dropped out of high school to take care of her child. She ended up with three children with the guy and hey separated twice. The second time he ended up taking his life. She didn't work when I met her and has always felt that her kids come before anything else. I don't disagree with that but also know in this day you need to work to be able to support your family. She does work now and says she loves her job. But she tells me she hates how much of the time is spent away from home and the kids.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> Through your counselor, would she give you a list of things she wants changed and did you give her a list of things she needs to change?
> 
> What does your counselor say about the drama with the children and how to improve that?
> 
> ...


I don't think she would be willing to do that at this point. She is set on divorce. The only reason we are just separated now is because we can't afford to divorce and need to take care of some common debt. She knows I do not want to file and told me that we need to come to a point where we realize that we will make a decision on that. We will be seeing our therapist and pastor next week to start navigating that though process. I don't even want to think about it, but I guess being realistic is important too. 

The therapist says that we need to make things as easy on the children as possible. If that means me finding other times to talk to them or call them, then I should do that until they are more comfortable with the situation. 

Going to the gym is a big help. I feel hat I still think about her but I don't focus on her when I am lifting or doing some cardio.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> It has been civil up to this point. Expect it to get dirty.
> 
> Do you agree with being told when you can / can not call your child?
> 
> ...



I am expecting things to have their ups and downs. I was doing alright with NC until this weekend and need to hop back on the wagon. It's not easy when the person you have talked to for 5 years is no longer the person you can talk to. She told me again last night that she has no desire to reconcile. I'm sure there have been other people who have heard this and change of heart has happened. I sure there are others who have not. 

She wants to keep the house. I told her that she would have to figure that all out because I don't want to carry a mortgage on a house I don't live in with someone I don't live with. She told me if I won't try to work with her to keep the house it will be all out war. I don't want that. But I don't want to be screwed come time for me to buy a house again down he road. 

I understand what you are saying about keeping tabs on her. But that's not going to do me any good. I don't want to feel like I am spying on her. In my state it is illegal to record audio of someone without their consent. I am going to leave her to her own devices. If she does have another man in her life at this point, then things will definitely not work out between us. At some point it will show up somewhere. I will not be her 2nd string guy. Only time will tell. We will figure out a timeline for being separated before we file. We can talk to our therapist and pastor to help us determine when would be good.

I know that I need to just focus on me. Working on me will make my future better and the life I share with my child and any of her children who want to spend time with me better. Maybe NC and proof that I am able to make the difference for myself will let her see hat things are worth another chance. If not, her loss.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> Through your counselor, would she give you a list of things she wants changed and did you give her a list of things she needs to change?


I don't agree with this, from my experience forced change isn't true change. If you change for anyone other than yourself, you haven't really changed and it'll just breed resentment. I could be wrong, but just my view on this.



> It has been civil up to this point. Expect it to get dirty.
> 
> Do you agree with being told when you can / can not call your child?
> 
> ...


I also don't agree with this - what good will it do to know if she's with a POSOM? 

Believe me, if you do this, and you find that she is, it's going to hurt.

If you do this, and you find that she isn't, it's going to instill some form of hope within you, and when that hope is crushed, it's going to hurt.

Either way, you're causing yourself more hurt, see?

Do yourself a favour and only communicate regarding your children. Spying breaks no contact in my book. 

Don't worry about what she's doing, worry about what you're doing. Everything happens for a reason, and what's meant to be is meant to be. You can't change her or control her thoughts or emotions, so why waste valuable energy dwelling on that when you could use it working on you?



> If she wanted to jump on, I would kick her off until my ride is done. Then, and only then, would I consider inviting her with me on the next ride.


This - in order to R you need to work on you, and she needs to work on her. Otherwise if you R before that happens, you'll just be here all over again. 

I made this mistake once with my STBXW before we were married, we separated, I started working on me, we got back together, I stopped working on me, and now we're separated again.

Sorry you're here.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

I agree that spying will only hurt us both. If she is doing something she shouldn't then that's on her. If she isn't and I pry into her life I will feel guilty. That's not who I am. I will not tell her anything she should work on. I will work on myself. If it is meant to be, it will happen. If not... life goes on.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> I agree that spying will only hurt us both. If she is doing something she shouldn't then that's on her. If she isn't and I pry into her life I will feel guilty. That's not who I am. I will not tell her anything she should work on. I will work on myself. *If it is meant to be, it will happen. If not... life goes on.*


Keep that attitude and you'll do just fine. :smthumbup:

Life does go on, and there are millions upon millions of beautiful and interesting women out there. Slightly hypocritical of me to say because I have days where I miss my wife so intensely I feel nauseated, and I'd give anything to get her back. But on the good days, I'm becoming somewhat of a playa .

Your wife is not the only woman in the world that will:

a.) Find you attractive
b.) Find you intriguing
c.) Care about you
d.) Want to be with you
e.) Think about you
f.) Want to get physical with you 
g.) Laugh at your jokes
h.) Be there for you when you've had a rough day
j.) .....

The list goes on and on, but you get my point. Millions of 'em, but there's a caveat:

You have to work on you to take full advantage of the situation. I'm not saying go out and bang a truckload of chicks, but what I'm saying is, if you work on yourself, you'll be in a far better position and far more likely to find A good spouse (note, "A", not "the one").


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

I'm definitely not ready for that truckload. Not even ready for one. Tomorrow will only been three weeks since she dropped the bomb on me. I can't even look at another woman and think of anything in that way. I am a family man. I married my wife because I loved her and her kids.

I will keep working on me. I will get myself in better shape then I was even when she met me. Over the past year I got myself back down to the weight I was when I met her and I have ambition to tone up and lose another 20 or so pounds. I am reading more and meditating more on loving myself and working where I find I don't like myself. It will be a process that I will always work on because we evolve as the world around us does as well. I just keep telling myself that life comes from us and not at us. 

I keep telling myself I cannot predict the future and need to live for the moment. But with kids, it isn't as easy as that. Optimism and positivity will help get me through this.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> I'm definitely not ready for that truckload. Not even ready for one. Tomorrow will only been three weeks since she dropped the bomb on me. I can't even look at another woman and think of anything in that way. I am a family man. I married my wife because I loved her and her kids.
> 
> I will keep working on me. I will get myself in better shape then I was even when she met me. Over the past year I got myself back down to the weight I was when I met her and I have ambition to tone up and lose another 20 or so pounds. I am reading more and meditating more on loving myself and working where I find I don't like myself. It will be a process that I will always work on because we evolve as the world around us does as well. I just keep telling myself that life comes from us and not at us.
> 
> I keep telling myself I cannot predict the future and need to live for the moment. But with kids, it isn't as easy as that. Optimism and positivity will help get me through this.


I'm nowhere near ready for that myself - but it helps to think about that. I don't know if like me you thought you'd never find anyone as good as her - but you will when the time is right for you.

Keep up with the optimism and positive mental attitude!


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> I'm nowhere near ready for that myself - but it helps to think about that. I don't know if like me you thought you'd never find anyone as good as her - but you will when the time is right for you.
> 
> Keep up with the optimism and positive mental attitude!



Right now, I do have that complex that I will never find anyone like her again. She is an amazing woman with a huge heart. A great mother. We just can't see eye to eye on things and she doesn't want to deal with it when her kids are having issues. I respect her wanting to take care of her kids, and wanting to spend some time on herself as well. It just sucks for me. She knew she could do this because in her exact words "You're not a jerk". I know she was telling me the truth when she said that.

I know there will be other women that will come along that will be wonderful. I'm just not ready for that. That may be a long way down the road for me. I'm fine with that. I'd rather make a good choice and wait then find someone I do like and hurt them because I still have things to work out for myself.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

I met with my pastor today to discuss what is going on. Being that he is actually divorced and my spiritual leader, I feel that he may have some insight that many other people in hi profession. I explained to him that my wife does not want to R but admits that she has no idea how she will feel six months from now. She told me the other day that had I been doing a few months ago what I am doing now, we would not be in this position. And she wishes I had. Might be a false hope for me, but I'll take that as a sliver of an opening in her heart. This process will not be easy if I am to work on me and let her see what I have done for myself. She may not care. Then again, it may be an eye opening experience. 

I texted my dad after the appointment with my pastor and told him "So, even when she tells me that she doesn't want to reconcile, I know that I have the opportunity to prove to her that we can work. It's not going to be easy or quick. I need to make good choices and follow the flow of the universe. It may be two months and it may be a year. But I will show her that it can be what we want it to be together." His response was "That's the attitude!"

I am an optimistic person who has negative tendencies. I can work on the negatives and focus on being positive. I can do whatever I put my mind to. I cannot make her change her mind, but I can show her that this is worth the effort. I know I could be setting myself up for disappointment, but I'm willing to do what I can for my family.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> And she asked for child support when we are supposed to be doing joint custody.


In some jurisdictions even if it's joint custody, one parent is considered the residential custodial parent (with whom the child spends the most time) and the other parent pays support.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

lenzi said:


> In some jurisdictions even if it's joint custody, one parent is considered the residential custodial parent (with whom the child spends the most time) and the other parent pays support.


Thanks, that is good to know.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> Right now, I do have that complex that I will never find anyone like her again. She is an amazing woman with a huge heart. A great mother. We just can't see eye to eye on things and she doesn't want to deal with it when her kids are having issues. I respect her wanting to take care of her kids, and wanting to spend some time on herself as well. It just sucks for me. She knew she could do this because in her exact words "You're not a jerk". I know she was telling me the truth when she said that.


When my WAW left me she told me "You're a good man and you'll be okay, and someone else will love you".

On reflection she was saying "You're a doormat and I can just do this with no repercussions. I'm done with you now".

She also at times has said "I don't know how I'll feel in the future, but I don't see us ever getting back together". She was trying to be gentle with me, that gave me false hope though, and prolonged the pain. Do yourself a favour, forget R right now. Work on you, focus on _your_ future. If it's right, then the R will happen in time anyway.



> I am an optimistic person who has negative tendencies. I can work on the negatives and focus on being positive. I can do whatever I put my mind to. I cannot make her change her mind, but I can show her that this is worth the effort. I know I could be setting myself up for disappointment, but I'm willing to do what I can for my family.


Optimism is fine, but being optimistic in a bleak situation is just setting yourself up for a fall. Don't be optimistic for R, and don't be pessimistic either, just take it for what it is.

Believe me I know it's difficult and I struggle with it every day, but I know it's what needs to be done.

If my wife and I are going to R, it will happen naturally, it can't be forced. Change for yourself, not to "show her that this is worth the effort", otherwise, you'll end up back here one day. It could be 30 years, it could be 3 months, but it'll happen if you don't.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> When my WAW left me she told me "You're a good man and you'll be okay, and someone else will love you".
> 
> On reflection she was saying "You're a doormat and I can just do this with no repercussions. I'm done with you now".
> 
> ...


I hear what you are saying and I want to be able to just agree with you. And I know it is my own stubbornness holding me to focus on a R. But this is all still very fresh. I don't think by any means I can show her that in 3 weeks time I again am that guy she fell in love with years ago. But I can make sure I constantly make the effort to bring that guy back. I really liked that guy better too. My focus is on me, but I also have to think about my family. No just her, but the kids as well.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> I hear what you are saying and I want to be able to just agree with you. And I know it is my own stubbornness holding me to focus on a R. But this is all still very fresh. I don't think by any means I can show her that in 3 weeks time I again am that guy she fell in love with years ago. But I can make sure I constantly make the effort to bring that guy back. I really liked that guy better too. My focus is on me, but I also have to think about my family. No just her, but the kids as well.


You can do your best for your children regardless of whether you and your wife are together or not.

It's so difficult to give up that hope though, believe me. I was where you were a couple of weeks ago, i'd imagine it's easier for me as we don't have any children.

By all means, bring that guy back, but don't put any of the focus on doing it for her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

the reference to a possible posom is to help one decide

if they want to try for R at all

IF you want R....bet the farm it would matter


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

We met with our pastor last night and she said she could not work through things with me. So I know what I need to do. It's just not an easy thing to do. I'm going to work on me and spend time as much with the kids as I can. I know that I should be looking at this as a chance to enjoy doing the things I may have put on hold, but I believe I placed things on hold because I thought my marriage and family are worth it. My family still is. The marriage is what I cannot place effort into anymore. 

Sad and lonely thought. Even with the kids I can feel all alone. I guess it can only go up from here. Got to find those positive feelings no matter what.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> We met with our pastor last night and she said she could not work through things with me. So I know what I need to do. It's just not an easy thing to do. I'm going to work on me and spend time as much with the kids as I can. I know that I should be looking at this as a chance to enjoy doing the things I may have put on hold, but I believe I placed things on hold because I thought my marriage and family are worth it. My family still is. The marriage is what I cannot place effort into anymore.
> 
> Sad and lonely thought. Even with the kids I can feel all alone. I guess it can only go up from here. Got to find those positive feelings no matter what.


Things will get easier in time, the more work you do on yourself, the better you will feel. 

You're right to not put effort in to a one-sided marriage, even if you don't feel like you are right now.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Any one-sided effort to savage a M is soul destroying

when I was at my low point last December, I viewed a D

as something I really did not want but was compelled to agree to

my parents were "retreads", M 1966, D 30 days later (no lie)

M again in '68.....remained until his passing

from filing day to D final, two months, plethora changes

One thing I did do and am proud of

she wanted the D....I made her pay for it (DIY, $184 -no kids-)


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

I believe that anything can happen, but it needs to take its own course. I cannot interject into her life and make her feel one thing or another. While I am here at this point and understand that my marriage most likely has no chance, I still believe that if I do what is best for me and place my faith in God, my life will be complete. If complete means divorced and I find someone new, then that's what it means. If it means that we work through our stuff and find happiness together again, then that's what it means. We cannot predict tomorrow and can only embrace today. I keep telling myself to live life to the fullest and do not regret.

If I did not have children to think about, NC would be the easiest way to go. But since I do and we have a good deal to talk about with kids ranging from toddler to teenager, we don't get the distance that may help us in the long run. I'll keep reading the books and doing what I can to help me through this. Each day I can tell myself that I love myself will be a day closer to my happiness.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

trust in your faith

good read below



http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Thanks. Some good advice in that link. Going to take some work to try and do that, although she isn't trying to be with another man right now. I think possibly my focus is off on a couple things for myself. She mentioned to me a bunch of times that my parenting is and always has been an issue for her. So I am going to focus on myself and focus on my parenting skills and techniques as well. I have been saying I need to focus on the kids, but I need to focus and change some of the things I didn't like when my parents did it with me. I need to pay more attention and break that cycle.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

we all come to TAM idiots about M

we leave geniuses 

exact opposite of DC politicians


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> we all come to TAM idiots about M
> 
> we leave geniuses
> 
> exact opposite of DC politicians


I don't hope to become a genius, just better prepared for the rest of my life.


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## hopefulbuthonest (Oct 7, 2013)

I know you guys say it gets a little easier everyday, and I really hope that is the case for me. Every time I think it is starting to get easier she makes a comment or does something to make it a little harder again. Admitting that she misses me and still loves me. Making a joke, asking for a high five, and holding onto my hand at the end of it. 

She's the one who wants this. I am trying to give her what she wants, as fighting for it openly has done nothing but give me heartache. I told her yesterday I don't want to drag out this process and as soon as we can pay down some of our debt we should file. I am trying to be strong in my decision, but every time I go to my house to pick up one or all of the kids I see her and get emotional feelings that I cannot easily suppress. Last night I dropped off the girls gave them kisses goodnight, opened the door, looked in her direction and said have a goodnight and walked out the door. Later, she texted me and said "I can't help but ask. You ok?" To which I did not reply.

I can't play games. I am exhausted from all of this. I need to just look forward and hope that things truly get easier. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

give defiant people what they want

it never ends up as they expected


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hopefulbuthonest said:


> I know you guys say it gets a little easier everyday, and I really hope that is the case for me. Every time I think it is starting to get easier she makes a comment or does something to make it a little harder again. Admitting that she misses me and still loves me. Making a joke, asking for a high five, and holding onto my hand at the end of it.
> 
> She's the one who wants this. I am trying to give her what she wants, as fighting for it openly has done nothing but give me heartache. I told her yesterday I don't want to drag out this process and as soon as we can pay down some of our debt we should file. I am trying to be strong in my decision, but every time I go to my house to pick up one or all of the kids I see her and get emotional feelings that I cannot easily suppress. Last night I dropped off the girls gave them kisses goodnight, opened the door, looked in her direction and said have a goodnight and walked out the door. Later, she texted me and said "I can't help but ask. You ok?" To which I did not reply.
> 
> I can't play games. I am exhausted from all of this. I need to just look forward and hope that things truly get easier. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other...


In thread after thread, you see the same thing.

She wants "no hard feelings" and wants to be friends.

Screw that.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Good job not answering that text - insulting is what it is.

I want you to practice showing her that this isn't phasing you one bit.

One some level she's taking pleasure that this is crushing you. Lets not give her that satisfaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

One more word of advice: I read your comment about it being "all out war" if you don't "work with her on the house". Please do not allow her to threaten and/or bully you into anything that's not good for you. Right now she's using the idea of civility to control you; civility is a good thing but that doesn't mean you have to take it up the a$$. If she wants a war call her bluff and give her one; my ex also threatened that if I got a lawyer he'd cause the nastiest, ugliest divorce possible, but it was really him trying to have things on his terms. I told him I was sorry he felt that way and wished him luck with that and guess what? It never happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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