# Are you dishonest?



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I just finished a chapter in Love Busters which covered dishonesty in marriage.

Now I'm not talking about boldfaced lies, like hiding an AP or an addiction...but the little white lies that the author says we make to mainly protect ourselves.

Are there areas in which you struggled being honest with your spouse?

I have usually been dishonest about my needs and wants...as I struggled with codependency already. My wife when we first got married, however, was a hothead, and I buried my feelings, tired of disrespectful judgement. My lack of honesty hurt me and also decreased my wife's trust in me because she new I was hiding things from her.

What say you?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I try to be as transparent as I can be with dh. Sometimes this has meant whispering things in his ear because I was too embarrassed to say them out loud. 

And I have to say, dh makes it easy, because he is understanding and forgiving.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Are you honest with her now, FS?


----------



## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

FormerSelf, we had that dynamic here for years, too. It was awful and took a boatload of IC and intermittent MC to unlearn the old ways and re-learn the new ways.

When fear of judgment is all one knows, that's what you do until you replace it with new ways of communicating, and with confidence.
When over-reacting is all one knows, the same thing applies.

It's getting a little better, but I can guarantee that the little white lies, combined with his need for external validation, have contributed to my thinking he was having an affair. That only made the walls between us thicker. Now I'm working on thinning out mine and making sure my actions show that. Slowly. He's really working on consistency between words and actions, too.


----------



## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Am I dishonest??

Not me.....


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm as honest as your run of the mill politician. Honest.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> I just finished a chapter in Love Busters which covered dishonesty in marriage.
> 
> Now I'm not talking about boldfaced lies, like hiding an AP or an addiction...but the little white lies that the author says we make to mainly protect ourselves.
> 
> ...


I say this is an excellent thread!

I agree with what you about dishonesty in marriage and truth is that it can kill intimacy.
But the problem doesn't only exist in marriage , unfortunately it's cultural.

Here's a TED vid I saved from a long time ago about lying and white lies.

Pamela Mayer , How To Spot A Liar.TED

Here's an excerpt from her speech;

"_ If you don't want to be deceived, then you have to know what you are hungry for...
We all widh we were better fathers , husbands, wives etc.
Lying is an attempt to fill the gap..._"

In order for a lie to "work" , someone has to believe in it. Lying is a cooperative act. 

I think greater self awareness brings more transparency and less lying in relationships.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I have trouble sharing things that bother me because I struggle with being vulnerable. I'm trying though.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have trouble sharing things that bother me because I struggle with being vulnerable. I'm trying though.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What has helped you be more vulnerable, life?


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I sometimes do tell white lies. 

My wife is super protective of me always after me to take a protein drink or drink enough water. She is a real sweetheart but can be a bit overbearing with this.

Usually I just tell her; "no, I didn't drink two protein drinks today and I don't want to!", but occasionally I take the easy way out and just say "yes, honey I did!"


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> I sometimes do tell white lies.
> 
> My wife is super protective of me always after me to take a protein drink or drink enough water. She is a real sweetheart but can be a bit overbearing with this.
> 
> Usually I just tell her; "no, I didn't drink two protein drinks today and I don't want to!", but occasionally I take the easy way out and just say "yes, honey I did!"


How about saying, "I appreciate your concern. I really do. But I just don't want to."


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> I sometimes do tell white lies.
> 
> My wife is super protective of me always after me to take a protein drink or drink enough water. She is a real sweetheart but can be a bit overbearing with this.
> 
> Usually I just tell her; "no, I didn't drink two protein drinks today and I don't want to!", but occasionally I take the easy way out and just say "yes, honey I did!"


I know what you mean. My wife is always trying to get me to drink Prestone. She says she doesn't want my blood to freeze.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thound said:


> I know what you mean. My wife is always trying to get me to drink Prestone. She says she doesn't want my blood to freeze.


:rofl:


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *FormerSelf said: *Now I'm not talking about boldfaced lies, like hiding an AP or an addiction...but the little white lies that the author says we make to mainly protect ourselves.
> 
> Are there areas in which you struggled being honest with your spouse?
> 
> I have usually been dishonest about my needs and wants.


This is one area I have never struggled in with my H.... his being THE WAY HE IS (understanding, open, non defensive, self aware, & not a grudge holder) ...has always made being honest / expressing how I feel, what is stirring in my head...Easy to share... Vulnerability I have had since the very beginning..I felt safe in his arms.. 

Really for us all...IF we want the depths of honesty/ a willing transparency from a spouse...we need to show we are "approachable"- willing to sit down & listen ...not flying off the handle or putting each other in the Dog house....







..or holding on to our weak moments & bringing them back up in a fight down the road.. 

This destroys openness & honesty...and breeds passive behaviors that can grow resentment. 

Walking on egg shells, or knowing a sermon is coming will stop a good 95% in their tracks...succumbing to white lying..as this will give more peace, even if there is "a price" for it..

We all have bad days...do something stupid in a moment , forget, missed the mark, said something that stung... pig out when we're supposed to be on a diet...I've even stolen the kids Halloween candy....I tell them! .... I warn them.. "Hear me now...HIDE IT or I'll be into it !!".... 

I can't seem to keep anything from my Husband ... even when I look bad.. sound bad.. I'll just tell him anyway! 

Another thing is.. this form of honesty can help us stay "accountable"... so we don't have to keep saying we failed/ forgot...and adding another white lie to the mix.. One plus, we'll always have our story straight!

Many times...our honesty is a form of down right humor in our house.. we make fun of each other... there is always an element of truth in the things we say.. yet we know we are loved & accepted in spite of them.. 

Now my Husband hasn't been as forthcoming as Myself .... his temperament is naturally more passive over mine....though he's gotten better here.....I know if I ask him anything.. (cause I do care how he feels, what he wants- I seek that out)... I can always count on his "giving it to me straight" - not pacifying me... 

I want/ NEED his honesty.. in this is *Trust*..white lying, for me , I would feel this could erode a couple's foundation... it's like smoking cigarettes can lead to smoking pot.. and so forth.. just better to not start. 

But again.. it sure helps when your spouse is wanting the same and has the listening skills to accommodate such a level of Transparency....

When our love languages/ emotional needs seem to be suffering due to a difference in importance...it can be a challenge to find that middle ground both can be happy , or at least find peace with... I think this is key.. and why honesty and working together is so very important..


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jld said:


> What has helped you be more vulnerable, life?


I've had some talks with my hb regarding our communication, many have been initiated by him. Baby steps mostly, he's helpful in that he tries to listen and I try to not accuse, just share. He happens to work in a field where they talk about how to communicate better, and he's motivated to stay married this time (it's the second for both of us). It's rooted in my childhood abuse; he knows about that but I don't know if he connects my poor communication skills to it yet. We'll get there eventually, baby steps are all I can handle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

FS, this is a problem both my husband and I have. This kind of honesty is hard. I've gotten much better about being honest about what I want and need from him. But I still don't trust his honesty because I sense he holds a LOT back. I hate that!


----------



## ASummersDay (Mar 4, 2013)

Being honest comes naturally to me. I have to make a serious effort to choose my words carefully sometimes, because my first inclination is to be completely candid and blunt. I'm as transparent as possible w.my husband because he's someone who appreciates my honesty, and I don't feel like I have to censor myself or hide anything. My opinion is that secrets and lies, no matter what color, are poison to intimate relationships.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I would say that I have a history of keeping things to myself when I suspect that disclosing them will make things emotionally uncomfortable for me, for him, or for us. I think my husband did the same. I think it had less to do with being dishonest than with the level of intimacy that we'd developed, and our understanding of what the relationship could bear. We've made great strides in opening up to one another by acknowledging the needs of both parties as far as transparency goes. 

"Dishonesty" is a pejorative term and reduces to a black and white moral question the complex interplay between one's relationship to oneself, one's relationship to a spouse, and one's view of the relationship dynamic. 

What one says or doesn't say is usually judged to be "dishonest" by one's partner when they are dissatisfied with the amount of information they are getting. We judge ourselves less harshly when we are the ones controlling the flow of information. I've been on both sides of the situation--this push and pull, this struggle between what we feel safe disclosing and what the other person wants to know--is a normal and natural part of marriages, and it changes as intimacy waxes and wanes in long term relationships.


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

jld said:


> Are you honest with her now, FS?


Not always, because the behavior is deeply ingrained...as half the time I am not aware that I have been shielding my thoughts and feelings. 

My wife and I got married when we were really young...and very immature...so I didn't know how to handle her demanding nature and the constant ultimatums. Instead of showing her the door, I practiced damage control and shut down, seeking to find a path of least resistance and best chance of avoiding landmines. Yay me.

I don't want to demonize my wife, however; her anger masked her fear...which was her way of seeking safety and security...coming from a background of CSA. My behavior is more rooted in my upbringing in a household with a Type A alcoholic...where open and honest communication was an unspoken no-no.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> I would say that I have a history of keeping things to myself when I suspect that disclosing them will make things emotionally uncomfortable for me, for him, or for us. I think my husband did the same. I think it had less to do with being dishonest than with the level of intimacy that we'd developed, and our understanding of what the relationship could bear. We've made great strides in opening up to one another by acknowledging the needs of both parties as far as transparency goes.
> 
> "Dishonesty" is a pejorative term and reduces to a black and white moral question the complex interplay between one's relationship to oneself, one's relationship to a spouse, and one's view of the relationship dynamic.
> 
> What one says or doesn't say is usually judged to be "dishonest" by one's partner when they are dissatisfied with the amount of information they are getting. We judge ourselves less harshly when we are the ones controlling the flow of information. I've been on both sides of the situation--this push and pull, this struggle between what we feel safe disclosing and what the other person wants to know--is a normal and natural part of marriages, and it changes as intimacy waxes and wanes in long term relationships.



You Can't Handle the Truth!

This is exactly how I felt and why I held things in. JLD taught me to be fearless and give the truth and allow my husband to decide if he can handle it or not.

Why do we protect people from ourselves? Who are we really protecting?


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> You Can't Handle the Truth!
> 
> This is exactly how I felt and why I held things in. JLD taught me to be fearless and give the truth and allow my husband to decide if he can handle it or not.
> 
> Why do we protect people from ourselves? Who are we really protecting?


Sometimes I was protecting myself, sometimes I thought it was better for the relationship, sometimes I didn't want to hurt him. 

It really boils down to trust: if I disclose this deepest fear or anxiety or judgment to him, will I regret it later? Will he have wished that I'd kept it to myself? Will our relationship be altered, even ever so slightly, in a negative way? 

You can't unsay things, and that is why we are naturally very careful with information we deem to be "dangerous" once unleashed. 

As much as it feels good to tout complete transparency and emotional honesty, the reality is that it doesn't always make a relationship stronger or better. It is a goal to be worked towards, yes, but how it is worked toward depends very much on the particulars of a relationship.

ETA: jld's philosophy of transparency has influenced me as well to push my comfort zone with emotional honesty, and it has been a very positive thing in my marriage--largely because my husband was willing to work on it WITH me.


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Sometimes I was protecting myself, sometimes I thought it was better for the relationship, sometimes I didn't want to hurt him.
> 
> It really boils down to trust: if I disclose this deepest fear or anxiety or judgment to him, will I regret it later? Will he have wished that I'd kept it to myself? Will our relationship be altered, even ever so slightly, in a negative way?
> 
> ...


This is where I come from too. My wife was so severely judgmental towards my attempts for open communication...interrupting, scoffing, calling it bs, or severely misinterpreting what I said. Open communication just became painful to me. I suppose in a way, I held back, having become deeply resentful without really letter her know. I became very guarded with my word choice. Years later, she is dying for me to open up to her.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

FormerSelf said:


> This is where I come from too. My wife was so severely judgmental towards my attempts for open communication...interrupting, scoffing, calling it bs, or severely misinterpreting what I said. Open communication just became painful to me. I suppose in a way, I held back, having become deeply resentful without really letter her know. I became very guarded with my word choice. Years later, she is dying for me to open up to her.


Yes, that all sounds painfully familiar. Breaking old habits is hard--it's two steps forward, one step back, it seems. But as time goes on, we recover much more quickly from the steps back. We usually recognize fear of rejection or dismissal from the other person as the reason we keep things to ourselves. 

It can become a vicious cycle, however--when you don't say what is on your mind and the other person picks up on that despite your denials, they start to play a guessing game and then tailor their behavior to what they *think* is going on. You then react to that reaction . . . and well, on and on it goes.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Transparency is great if you're a goblet or a window. Knowing what I know of the human decision process, I gotta say that transparency isn't exactly my middle name. Always has been.

Life is all about incomplete information and how to deal with it. No point in making it easier than it needs to be.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> You Can't Handle the Truth!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Elementary.

Think of the importance or consequences of having the information vs not having it.

I have DD1's college car for the summer while she's enjoying Paris. I noticed a couple minor scratches on the bumper, one last year and one this year. Knowing wifey's likely response to such a scratch (unglued) I spent a couple hours and polished them to perfection. How dishonest of me 

Some people's cognitive processes are always in North Korea mode. The rest...


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *john117 said*: Elementary.
> 
> *Think of the importance or consequences of having the information vs not having it.
> *
> ...


 You mean by being unglued, she'd throw a fit over some scratches.. ?? 

See now I would see this behavior totally ridiculous.... if so... I can easily see why you would not offer this information.. with a wife like me , however, my response would be relatively "nothing"- all I would care about is.. well - so long as the car still runs, we're good !! 

Virtually nothing that is said to me would shake me other than one of us getting HURT physically to where our lives would be altered... even when our son was taken by an ambulance for putting his arm through a window, I was able to laugh about what he did moments after the phone call..telling our kids... KNOWING HE WAS FINE .. it was a sigh of relief... 

I don't come unglued -unless it is BAD.. REALLY BAD.. then I might faint .. but that's probably normal !! 

I really do GET that some *can't* do the whole Radical Transparency thing -depending on how the other responds or what may be awakened to deal with... in the aftermath of more info than isn't necessary... to each be the judge -as you know your spouses the best ! 

When I speak on this, I assume 2 mentally sound individuals who can handle the unabashed truth of living and loving (& enjoy sharing it).. with the common issues people face in marriage, ya know...

I could NOT be with someone who didn't appreciate the way I am geared (the deep soul searching sharing).. and if they had no desire to give that back.. coming there with me...I just wouldn't like that.. I'd be reaching for more....we'd probably not made it to the alter even..... but that's good...that's what dating is all about....finding someone compatible for who we are... 

For us.. we live the whole "Radical Honesty" thing... The Policy of Radical Honesty


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

FormerSelf said:


> This is where I come from too. My wife was so severely judgmental towards my attempts for open communication...interrupting, scoffing, calling it bs, or severely misinterpreting what I said. Open communication just became painful to me. I suppose in a way, I held back, having become deeply resentful without really letter her know. I became very guarded with my word choice. Years later, she is dying for me to open up to her.


I had this with my first husband. As if vulnerability wasn't hard enough for me thanks to csa, I couldn't actually share anything with him. I remember one time I was having a melt down with severe pp. depression and having a tough time being so far away from my family. I looked at him and simply said that I missed my family. I needed someone just to talk to, and I remember him looking at me with disgust and saying well I don't have mine either and you don't hear me b!tching about it. Now grow up. 

Yeah, that was the last time I attempted to share anything with him. I'll never understand why he fought the divorce, since he clearly couldn't stand me. At the end he actually had the nerve to tell me I hadn't been a friend to him. Gee, I wonder why?

It's been tough to open up to my current hb, but we're getting there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Dishonest...no. Guarded....very much so.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

SA, most people are normal, some are not. Rather than spending a few hours arguing about a couple scratches I fixed it, it simply is not worth my time to listen to her complain about trivial things. 

Even if dealing with a 100% normal person, too much information is generally not always desirable in my view. That's my view of marriage, it's a relationship between separate people, not people that are nearly 24/7 together sharing everything.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

john117 said:


> SA, most people are normal, some are not. Rather than spending a few hours arguing about a couple scratches I fixed it, it simply is not worth my time to listen to her complain about trivial things.
> 
> Even if dealing with a 100% normal person, too much information is generally not always desirable in my view. That's my view of marriage, it's a relationship between separate people, not people that are nearly 24/7 together sharing everything.


Yes I get this , that's why I feel it is a compatibility thing as well...which is rarely mentioned...but I think it should be...

It's a misconception that Radical honesty couples share *everything*, that would make us both non stop motor mouths. and we'd want to run from each other plugging our damn ears... It's not that at all.... it's that we ENJOY sharing our lives, the HIGH LIGHTS... it's a willing, giving , engaging thing.. we'd never leave out the "juicy" stuff... the Funny... if he was upset at work...some asinine thing his Boss did, he would tell me all about it...I'd want him to vent.. so I could soothe him....

Yes, our marriages are very different.. we love to be together too.. and we do see ourselves as each's "other half". But of course we're not together 24/7... he does work.. even tonight.. it's about time we retire ...and get a little time in before he goes to sleep!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> Elementary.
> 
> Think of the importance or consequences of having the information vs not having it.
> 
> ...


IDK John... You polishing the bumper, was it enabling, or the fruits of your wife's diabolical training program!


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

No diabolical training involved. It's faster to fix the bumper and be done with it than deal with the drama that it's somehow my fault for not teaching DD1 how to parallel park or what not. 

Arguing about it wins no points for anyone. Just take care of it and be done.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

NO.... I am not.


----------



## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

:smthumbup:

Great thread OP! Definitely provokes some food for thought in myself.




SimplyAmorous said:


> This is one area I have never struggled in with my H.... *his being THE WAY HE IS (understanding, open, non defensive, self aware, & not a grudge holder) ...has always made being honest / expressing how I feel, what is stirring in my head...Easy to share...*


Loved your entire post but the bolded part is what most resonated with me.

While not an outright liar, I was guilty of* lying by omission* before his A. I kept a lot of things buried because I learned the hard way that anything said - no matter how well couched, worded or stated could be taken as criticism. 

Feeling like you're not able to be open is an intimacy killer and resentment builder - especially if what you're not voicing are related to your essential needs/love builders/things that speak to your love language. It's not only outright aggression that could put you off of being open and honest. For me, passive aggression had the same affect. He was not loud or angry about it but he would get deeply hurt, internalize it, sulk, withdraw, push me out... then I'd apologize for hurting his feelings and still have my need go unmet.... the entire cycle was very exhausting... I resolved myself to accept the status quo from him but it also meant a lot of my desires went unmet. In truth, pre-A, I wasn't that happy either. 

He has done a lot of legitimate work to improve his self-esteem in the last year and is something he is still working on. I believe that's a big reason as to why he was so hypersensitive to criticism before. That and issues with his FOO (mostly mom although it's cliche) as to why he was that way. So he is so much better at actually hearing and understanding what I'm trying to say and that I'm not chastising him. 

My motivation to hang on to this man went out the window when I found out he cheated on me. I do think there is a bright side to that. I've said before, my level of "give a fvck" about not "nagging" or trying to please if it meant I felt I was prostrating myself went way down. So when he came back and wanted to work on things, my standards for him but also my self were raised. 

Now I care more about the consequences that come from dishonesty that we've experienced than I do about not stirring the pot or losing him. When he wanted to come back together, that is one of the things I new that needed to change. I am better at vocalizing my needs and he is sooo much better at not internalizing them as his personal failings and following through with what he's promised. Active listening has worked well here too.


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

To my shame, I have been. I told a lot of lies of omission in the early parts of my marriage. I was also dishonest about things I thought would harshly judged by her or that I thought would make her less attracted to me. It's funny, because I was more honest with things with people I didn't care about - kinda like, if they judged or shunned me, then who cared? I wasn't worried about them. With the closest person to me? I was afraid to be judged. Call it the lingering "Nice Guy" in me from my childhood, or sociopathic behavior, or just selfish - it's pretty warped thinking. My parents are both passive-aggressive and my mother had a martyr complex so I come by these traits honestly. 

I never lied about a job loss or drug addiction or something to that level. I obfuscated about a girl that had EA potential but I didn't hide it either and when my W shut that down, I didn't seek or hide any more contact.

It's less of an issue these days. Lady Convection basically beat it into my head that I needed to open up and just be straight with her. I am now, with very few exceptions. Surprise, surprise, she did not get all judgmental and run away from me like I was weird. Yeah, I know, I was pretty dumb.

On the other hand, Lady C is the most honest person I have ever met. She can't tell a lie to save her life; her body language is a total giveaway. So she is just straightforward instead.

Like I said, better now. Just another brick in the road of our marital journey. You grow together or grow apart. In this area, she was responsible for making us grow together.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I often wondered if my dishonesty may have caused some of my problems in my marriage.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Convection said:


> On the other hand, Lady C is the most honest person I have ever met. She can't tell a lie to save her life; her body language is a total giveaway. So she is just straightforward instead.


:smthumbup: What a great way to be, and what a gift to you!


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I just read a few posts on the first page, FS. I want to say, if anyone says they don't lie or avoids the question, they're a liar. We all do. It's in our nature to protect ourselves and what we care about. Sometimes, that involves lying by ommission or avoidance, not just out and out lies. White lies are just as much a lie as blatant lies. They are all meant to deceive. "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive". No, I didn't invent that. I don't remember who did. That's not a lie. I'm too lazy to look it up and won't be. That's not a lie either. And it's because I just don't care if someone doesn't know. That's the truth, FS. Another truth is, I have a suspicion, you already heard that before. 

The most damage is caused by the lies of the one we love the most. I did write that. That's not a lie.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Convection said:


> *To my shame, I have been. I told a lot of lies of omission in the early parts of my marriage. I was also dishonest about things I thought would harshly judged by her or that I thought would make her less attracted to me*. It's funny, because I was more honest with things with people I didn't care about - kinda like, if they judged or shunned me, then who cared? I wasn't worried about them. With the closest person to me? I was afraid to be judged. Call it the lingering "Nice Guy" in me from my childhood, or sociopathic behavior, or just selfish - it's pretty warped thinking. My parents are both passive-aggressive and my mother had a martyr complex so I come by these traits honestly.


 Convection.. I LOVE your honesty in sharing all of this... I think most people struggle with these sorts of things... but would never dare admit it...

This is why anonymous forums appeal to me over social sites like Facebook... The vast majority of what we read is just a facade...anything could be lurking behind closed doors... but when you enter a site like TAM.... we really let it ALL HANG OUT... and deeply learn from each other...where we missed it, why these things work against us...also that we're not alone in succumbing to some of these behaviors even ..

I was always honest to a fault, it was so bad, that if I didn't get a Joke (which happened often...still does!)... I wouldn't even laugh but tell them I am "too blonde" to get the damn joke.. I surely made a fool out of myself a # of times doing this..then I think I developed a "joke complex"...if there is such a thing?!....

One fateful sleep over with friends in my teens...this was going on... ends up they were all laughing at Me for not getting the jokes, trying to explain them to me.....they still loved me though, probably just found me an airhead... I think I lowered others defenses just by being "real"... and this allowed them to open up easier with me... I kinda learned this early on in life..and found it fared better with me ...over being "too quiet"... ...in comparison... 



> It's less of an issue these days. *Lady Convection basically beat it into my head that I needed to open up and just be straight with her. I am now, with very few exceptions. Surprise, surprise, she did not get all judgmental and run away from me like I was weird. Yeah, I know, I was pretty dumb.*


 I've as much told my H if he starts this passive







with me again (like he did with our sex life, trying to not rock the boat)....." I'll put his balls in a vise".. I can't stand that -- just tell me what is ON MY MIND!"... yeah I know that sounds nasty... I say it with a big ... it's all good.. 

He does now...and I love it.. if he is upset with me.. he'll let me know..I've even thanked him ! 



> *On the other hand, Lady C is the most honest person I have ever met. She can't tell a lie to save her life; her body language is a total giveaway. So she is just straightforward instead*.


 My H would say this too.. at least at home, between us.. I can, however, when walking out my door, shed my mood and put on a  before others.. it's just with HIM.. because he knows me SO well... I can't downplay how I am feeling....it just doesn't work....I am a miserable cuss if I even try.....

But I have found this a good thing..as it brings us together...he knows I NEED to talk it out...and he wants to give me that...I don't allow things to "fester".. I've never felt resentment towards my Husband...in all of our years... 



> Like I said, better now. Just another brick in the road of our marital journey. You grow together or grow apart. *In this area, she was responsible for making us grow together.*


and here's to Mrs Lady C..


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

2ntnuf said:


> I just read a few posts on the first page, FS. I want to say, if anyone says they don't lie or avoids the question, they're a liar. We all do. It's in our nature to protect ourselves and what we care about. Sometimes, that involves lying by ommission or avoidance, not just out and out lies. White lies are just as much a lie as blatant lies. They are all meant to deceive. "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive".


I did a thread on lies...explaining the different types of lies people tell.... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...s-why-people-lie-how-much-acceptable-you.html




> The Different Kinds of Lies You Tell
> 
> *1*. *White Lies* - People tell white lies claiming to be tactful or polite ...could be making up an excuse for not going to a party, or showing appreciation for an undesirable gift. But telling white lies after awhile can cause conflict with others because over time they understand the insincerity. That is why white liars can lose their credibility
> 
> ...


.........................


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Classic example. We are gentle with the one's we love, when we don't feel like being gentle. That's a lie. It's not our true feelings. We cover them up and beat around the bush to try to gently influence. We don't just tell them with blunt honesty. It's not the nicest or most productive thing to do. Do you see what I am telling you? We all are deceptive. We justify it differently. Some, because they think they are being nice. Maybe they are? It's still a lie. Get it?


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Yep, everyone lies. Some do it for a, "good", cause.


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Convection.. I LOVE your honesty in sharing all of this... I think most people struggle with these sorts of things... but would never dare admit it...


Thank you, Ma'am. It was not easy to write. Again, I credit my wife comfort in discussing this own toxic part of my mind. She really helped me get my head on straight, in so many ways.


----------



## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

The "oh what a tangled web we weave" quote was from Sir Walter Scott, but is usually attributed to Shakespeare.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Thound said:


> I often wondered if my dishonesty may have caused some of my problems in my marriage.



Or the other way 'round?


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

There are many things I don't discuss with my wife unless I really, really have to:

1. life's little owies and upsets... bad day at work, disappointing performance reviews, the little stuff. I've learned I can't sound like a weenie. Big stuff I talk about, but always directly, simply, and with a plan of action if I can.

2. how her a$$ really looks in those jeans.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Number 1 agree 100%.

Number 2 her a$$ does look great in spandex jeans but any relevant comments go to waste so...


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Oh, forgot one.

I never comment on other hot women.

Unless she asks, of course. Then I'm (at times brutally) honest.

She's pretty much learned to stop asking and I've pretty much learned to stop gawking.

So I file that one under win-win.


----------

