# Totally confused



## AnnoyedAndConfused (Aug 12, 2012)

So I've been scoping out this forum for a few months now and I think this would be a great place to ask this question. Suffice it to say, bedroom troubles with my wife are nothing new. She is super low drive and I think that I am pretty normal drive. So over the past 15 years we've gone from once a month to none for the last year. So a big blowout happens since I am fairly surly a lot of the time and she says to me toward the end of the conversation/fight that its not her fault that she doesn't want sex its just how she is, but she says that she will sleep with me so I will stop being grouchy. I am not sure I should accept this. Its pity sex. It would be like sleeping with a doll. And all through it I would know that she really doesn't want this. So I tell her this and she thinks I am being too harsh and that I should just accept the sex and be happy. But I wont be. Just like o haven't been happy for a long time. Do you think its unreasonable to be married to someone who a actually wants to be there when sleeping with you? I would just rather not sleep with her ever again. I'm not gonna be made to feel like I am some sort of sex fiend, there for just my pleasure. Any thoughts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AnnoyedAndConfused said:


> So I've been scoping out this forum for a few months now and I think this would be a great place to ask this question. Suffice it to say, bedroom troubles with my wife are nothing new. She is super low drive and I think that I am pretty normal drive. So over the past 15 years we've gone from once a month to none for the last year. So a big blowout happens since I am fairly surly a lot of the time and she says to me toward the end of the conversation/fight that its not her fault that she doesn't want sex its just how she is, but she says that she will sleep with me so I will stop being grouchy. I am not sure I should accept this. Its pity sex. It would be like sleeping with a doll. And all through it I would know that she really doesn't want this. So I tell her this and she thinks I am being too harsh and that I should just accept the sex and be happy. But I wont be. Just like o haven't been happy for a long time.


Some more info would be good. 
How long have the two of you been married. 
Do you have any children? If so how many and age range
What was sex like when you first married?
Is your wife a SAHM or does she work outside the home?


AnnoyedAndConfused said:


> Do you think its unreasonable to be married to someone who a actually wants to be there when sleeping with you?


It’s perfectly normal to want your spouse to actually be engaged in sex and not act like a blowup doll.


AnnoyedAndConfused said:


> I would just rather not sleep with her ever again.


Makes sense. What she is doing is a huge rejection of you. Who would want that?


AnnoyedAndConfused said:


> I'm not gonna be made to feel like I am some sort of sex fiend, there for just my pleasure. Any thoughts?


You are not a sex fiend. She is being unreasonable. 

You are going to have to have a heart-to-heart with her. Either she work with you to get a reasonable sex life, 2xs a week, or you will divorce her. 
This means that she has to see doctors to make sure that there are no medical issues, her hormones levels are ok, etc.
She needs to go to marriage counseling with you. The marriage counselor needs to be a sex therapist as well.

There are things that can make a person not want to have sex. The thing is that these need to be addressed. They can be anything from hormone imbalances to her not having her needs met. But it’s unreasonable for her to expect you to stay married and then not be willing to work on this. And the BOTH of you have to work on it.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

You have had no sex for a year. Once a month prior to that for 15 years and your asking if you should except pity sex? 

It would seem your problems are far bigger than wether or not to except pity sex. 

In essence what she is telling you is that your needs don't matter at al to her. It's obvious she is not attracted to you in the least. Super low drive = super un-attracted. 

On top of that she is calling you a sex fiend for wanting sex. As in "You just had sex last year, what are you, a sex maniac? "
Was celibacy in your wedding vows? 

No wonder your grumpy as it is a biological need for men to want and to have sex. This need is not being met at all. 

I would recommend you read MMSLP by Athol Kay. 
Books by Athol Kay | Married Man Sex Life


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## AnnoyedAndConfused (Aug 12, 2012)

Sex was always once a month. And I was ok with that. When it went to once in 3, I was perturbed, at once in 6 I was pissed. Then it disappeared. And i was a understanding and understanding and even more understanding. Now I am not just angry, I am mortified. How embarrassing to have been seen desperate fir some intimate contact. How craven it must have looked to see a guy groveling for sex. I almost can't bare to have a face to face conversation with her. She was never a physical person but nothing? For a year? Not needing or wanting to be intimate in any way? BTW, we've done the doctor thing and everything checks out normal. She says she loves me but that she just doesn't need intimacy. So I work nights and I throw myself into my work. So I pick up tons of extra shifts. Im barely home anymore. Now she's feeling alone. A lot. And insists that I cut back to spend more nights at home. When I ask "for what" that's when it all tumbles out. Years of upset and disappointment come rushing out. When she asks is this it, I tell her I think so. I think we're too far off course ti make any correction, and she whips out the, I'll sleep with you if it'll make you happy. And thus my question, is accepting pity sex, when you know the other person doesn't want it and is just going to fake liking it , acceptable. Id like some input or advice
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

Being cut off for a full year? I give you credit for not stepping out or at least getting a happy ending massage often. This needs to be addressed and fixed between two adults. It cannot continue and the pity load she lets you drop on her prone, cold self is only perpetuating the problem.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

pity sex doesn't sound like fun. it's not the way to go. it might be over in a few minutes anyway and she'll feel like she was so awesome to have capitulated and given you want you want, and she'll think that will buy her another year, and you'll feel like sh*t because it won't make you feel good knowing that you've guilted her into doing this and the orgasm just won't be worth it.

doesn't sound like the future of this marriage is good. you two are too far apart on this issue and the unhappiness it is causing you is no way to accept the rest of your life.

did she ever enjoy sex? can you recapture that time?


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Dude, I've been there - meaning the point of working like mad to avoid my home environment. Got to a year of sexlessness, couldn't handle it and had to ask for sex. It was like you say, a doll. So, did it get better. Nope. Not even after committed to coming home on time. I was even told that me now being here was too overwhelming. That tells me she just does not want sex. Period. End of story. I'm thinking of an out now...


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

I had a similar sex life to yours - I used to rate the health of our marriage by how many times in a year I needed to buy a box of condoms.(Condoms? I know, leave it alone) Eventually we reached a point where I didn't need to.

Sex problems and low drive seem to be to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Something interrupts a couple's intimacy, then one partner's attraction to the other drops and he/she has trouble regaining it. The frequency and quality of sex drops after that, so the less interested partner becomes further disinterested, while the more interested partner becomes frustrated and angry. This turns the first partner off further and so on. Occasional, empty sex occurs when the less interested partner just wants to get off or have the other leave them alone for a while, which deepens the divide. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I'd be willing to bet that both of you hoped for the magic to return and wanted to want the other. I'm pretty sure that was how things were in my marriage and we let it wither and die instead. Maybe if you want to restore it you'll have the chance to rediscover how to turn one another on. You know, spend an evening rubbing oil into her feet or hike all weekend until you pass out or whatever you/she enjoy. 

If you think it's past the point of no return, don't linger. Get yourselves apart as civilly as you can and learn from the mistakes for next time.

Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If she took this seriously she could get her desire for sex back. But apparently she does not see the need to do this.

In your case divorce might be your only viable option. No one should have to live with the emotional pain you are living with.

My husband is the one who cut off sex, about 4-5 years ago. I finally got smart and divorced him. By the time I did it I just did not care anymore.


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## AnnoyedAndConfused (Aug 12, 2012)

You know, intellectually I think you're right. It probably is over and it probably isn't anything I can do about it. Emotionally though, I just can't wrap my head around what a waste of 15 years this has been. I've got wonderful kids that I love desperately and I would hate to see them wrecked by a divorce. Just too much pain. And I can't even express it to my wife because it just doesn't register. Like Solzanytzen (sp?) wrote "a man who's warm can never understand a man who's cold" She just has no frame of reference. She has no metric with which 
to measure this. Dropping a divorce on her would shock the hell out of her but i would end up as the bad guy. Meh... too many thoughts at once. Im so addled I can't even complete a coherent paragraph or thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

A n' C I know a lot of this advice has pointed toward divorce as an option. And that's what it is- an option. You can choose to look at the relationship as a dead end or you can choose to bulldoze a new path. This can be a beginning of a new understanding and relationship with your wife and family if your willing to put in the work. You must accept total responsibility for the situation you are in. By discovering what you have been doing that has created it you will be on your way toward a new understanding of not only yourself but of your wife as well. 
This will take some time. It took me aprox. 3 to 4 months of reading books/this forum and asking questions on this forum. Luckily I had the time to do it at a regular pace or it may have taken longer. Small steps then larger ones. And yeah I f'd up along the way but it's getting easier all the time. 

Before I joined this forum I was well on my way to ending my marriage. All the sign posts were there. I was at a total loss of what to do. A number of books were recommended. I have read them and am reading more. It has truly been a journey of self discovery. My wife and I are getting along better. I am steadily working toward creating a new and fulfilling relationship with not only my wife but with my kids as well. Due to a lot of my own behaviors the lack of intimacy in my relationship ( not just sexual as I discovered) was in a shambles.

If you still love your wife and wish to make it work, work at it and a new improved relationship with her is a better possibility for you than if you don't. If it doesn't you will come out of this a better person for discovering what a good relationship can be with the right person and you will be prepared for it.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

AnnoyedAndConfused said:


> Dropping a divorce on her would shock the hell out of her but i would end up as the bad guy. Meh... too many thoughts at once. Im so addled I can't even complete a coherent paragraph or thought.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why are you the bad guy?

So many marriages end in divorce. If you know of any couple that ended in a divorce, do you think of one as good or bad? Often, unless one person clearly was in the wrong (cheating, gambled away all their money, abusive, etc.) then no one is viewed as the good/bad person.

I have gone through a divorce and I was the one who initated it. The lone reason anyone ever viewed me as the bad person was because about 2 months after I left my wife, she realized I wasn't coming back and lashed out at me, posting false information on her Facebook that I was cheating, abusive, etc. For a while, a lot of my friends backed off from me, mostly because they were caught in the middle (a lot were also her friends too). 

Over five years later, things are better than ever for the most part with friends, etc. There's no pointing fingers, no blame game, no me being the bad guy. They know my ex was blowing off steam and flat out lying, and just leave it at that. Don't worry about your image. If you really want, discuss things with some of the people that matter before and just let them know that you're not happy and why. You don't have to toss your wife under the bus, just say that things aren't going well and that you're stressed and you don't know which way the marriage is happening, which really is the truth. Then, if a divorce does come up, they won't be shocked.

As for your situation about taking the pity sex, it's really up to you and how you feel about it. I sense you don't like the idea, so if you don't like it, son't do it. You likely won't feel good about yourself after and you likely won't get what you want out of it anyways (which is a close emotional bond with your wife, not a physical relase).

I personally refuse sex when I think it's just a pity thing, or done solely for my benefit. I know what I'm about to say isn't something everyone agrees with, but that's fine. I personally view pity sex as almost as bad as rape.

The reason I say that is because like a rape, pity sex is done by one person (in this case your wife) with no desire to do so, and in fact against her desires. While the spouse isn't physically forced to have sex, the only reason she is having sex is because she is being coherieced into sex. Guilted into it by your anger, frustration, etc. meaning, in a round about way, she's being forced to have sex (have sex or else there will be a fight, anger, resentment, etc.)

Like I said, it's like a rape to me. I don't expect everyone to agree with that and I'm not trying to belittle what actual rape victims go through at all. I just personally view them on a similar (but not quite the same) level and it's why I don't want anything to do with pity sex or chore sex or duty sex. 

Additionally, I also view sex as me offering my being, my body and (when it comes to love, which I believe is what you are referring to A and C) my spirit to someone. Why would I want to go through with sex when that someone views being with me as a chore? That's a huge ego destroyer right there.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

My opinion is that you have her in a good position. When she realized the marriage was just about over, she capitulated and offered up a meager offering of pity sex. From her viewpoint, it's a good first offer.

What you need to do is come back and reject that offer. Explain that pity sex doesn't work and that an intimate, fulfilling sexual relationship is what is needed to keep the marriage together and it is HER job to get it to that point.

All this assumes you have no faults/issues that need to be addressed. My guess is that there are some issues and marriage counseling is a good place to start looking at these.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> My opinion is that you have her in a good position. When she realized the marriage was just about over, she capitulated and offered up a meager offering of pity sex. From her viewpoint, it's a good first offer.
> 
> What you need to do is come back and reject that offer. Explain that pity sex doesn't work and that an intimate, fulfilling sexual relationship is what is needed to keep the marriage together and it is HER job to get it to that point.


I agree. In my marriage, sex was sporadic and unfulfilling. It was done with what I feel is total non-desire. It was also infrequent. I never stood up and said this is unacceptable, so by my own lack of a backbone on the issue, it became acceptable through my actions (or lack there of).

Things were heading the same way in my current relationship. Sex was sporadic for a while, and also often without desire. Eventually she brought up the idea of us buying a house together (I had suggested it earlier in the relationship, but her mom's house came up for sale and she wanted me to buy it and we could live together there (I would buy it because I wanted to own any house solely, not jointly after the fiasco I had in my first marriage)). We had a long discussion about a bunch of issues before we started living together and I told her that our sex life wasn't what I wanted and if it didn't improve that we wouldn't be living together. While I didn't say specifically that she had to show desire, I told her that the frequency needed to pick up to about twice a week and that if I felt like she was only interested in 'duty sex' that I wasn't going to accept 'duty sex' offers, so by default she had to be willing to offer up meaningful, desired sex a few times a week or we wouldn't be living together.

Suffice to say, I bought the house and the sex hasn't deteriorated in frequency or desire. If anything it's improved and lately so has the variety, so it's getting better and better in my books.

Hold your ground A and C and push for what you need sexually. Help her get there though and show a willingness to work on it if she'll show you the same willingness to work on it as well with her actions, not just words.


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## AnnoyedAndConfused (Aug 12, 2012)

Truth is I have always been willing to work with her. Which is why I really never said anything till the frequency became nil. Even now, I still think she cares about me but has this wall up concerning sex. She's great mom. She is caring to me in lots if other ways but she literally seems to not have any drive. Its puzzling and aggravating at the same time. When I try to press her to talk about it she clams up and accuses me of only wanting sex, well ok, I guess a lot of our conversations revolve around sex. Because that's what's missing!! I think im going to politely decline her offer. If she doesn't want to be there neither do I.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

AnnoyedAndConfused said:


> Truth is I have always been willing to work with her. Which is why I really never said anything till the frequency became nil. Even now, I still think she cares about me but has this wall up concerning sex. She's great mom. *She is caring to me in lots if other ways but she literally seems to not have any drive.* Its puzzling and aggravating at the same time. When I try to press her to talk about it she clams up and accuses me of only wanting sex, well ok, I guess a lot of our conversations revolve around sex. Because that's what's missing!! I think im going to politely decline her offer. If she doesn't want to be there neither do I.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So she's basically your friend that you had a kid with?


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

AnnoyedAndConfused said:


> I am not sure I should accept this. Its pity sex. It would be like sleeping with a doll. And all through it I would know that she really doesn't want this.


Michelle Langley calls it 'tagging'. Doling out just enough sex to keep the husband around.

This is from _Women's Infidelity_, the husbands have had affairs, but it applies to you as well:



> Yes, the husbands ended their affairs because they thought their wives wanted to get back together, which is what their wives wanted them to think—temporarily. They didn’t want their husbands to give up hope and move on. So they made a quick tag in order to regain control over them.
> I think that at some point the women began to derive a sense of power over their husbands and didn’t want to give that up. It’s no different from the sense of power that males have over females at certain times.


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## AnnoyedAndConfused (Aug 12, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> So she's basically your friend that you had a kid with?



Yeah, I guess that would be an accurate assessment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

AnnoyedAndConfused said:


> Yeah, I guess that would be an accurate assessment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is that what you want?

I'd assume no since you are posting here at TAM. As such, it may be time to plan an exit strategy and be ready to use it if things don't turn around. I'd be planning my exit strategy, set in your mind when a good time to leave is (give it at least a few months) and then tell her what is missing and what you may do if things don't improve for you. Be honest with her (don't make threats like "we have sex XXX times a week or I'm leaving") and just tell her that this needs to improve or you can't live with this anymore. You aren't happy.


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