# Told my wife about going to counselor. Massive email blow up today.



## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

I went to a marriage counselor last Friday to see about getting help for my self with our marriage being my wife and I have been on a down hill slide about things for awhile now and I want to fix it. 
According to my wife so much of her/our problems start with me so I took the benefit of the doubt and went and checked out counseling. What I learned was that I am not the person with the primary problems. I have some issues to work on but nothing compared to what she has been showing. (See other threads of mine for details if you are curious.)

I watched her moods all week and thought that perhaps she had started coming out of her low funk on her own so I was going to cancel the appointment. 

However last night we did our taxes and she had a fit that I got money back and she didn't and it made no sense to her whatsoever that because my last years income put me in the lower income range I got most of my taxes back. She however made nearly 3 times what I did which put her well within the tax range that doesn't get money back. 

Today I got a weak apology email that pissed me off so I sent her one back saying I saw a counselor last week and that she would like to see her next then possibly the both of us together after that. 

I admit the email notification was not the best way to do it but to be honest I am so sick and tired of getting my butt chewed whenever I do try and start a conversation with her about our problems this seemed more fitting. Not right but more fitting. 

I want to communicate with my wife but I don't want to deal with the over bearing highly confrontational spoiled princess attitudes when I get when I do it in person. 

At least she said she is going to see the counselor next week.

Any thoughts?


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

For a follow up she says I broke something in her. I have no exact idea what that means but I do know I have been getting blamed for every little thin in her life that has not went the way she wanted at the speeds she wanted regardless of its rationality or otherwise. 

The only thing I have ever intentionally tried to break is her belief that I was put on this earth to rescue her and make her happy at any and all expense to myself. 

I wanted her to be my equal in both the good and bad but the problem was I always felt she just wanted the good and I was supposed to take the bad. Granted she always said she took the bad parts yet what she defines as bad are things I never think twice about let alone make dwelling concerns over day after day. 

We are nearly financially flat broke but that does not seem to bother her. 
What does obviously bother her is I leave dark colored sock lint on the floor, I don't cook even though she tells me I she does not like what I cook and wont eat it, I don't wash the clothes on the same wash machine and dryer settings as she wants nor do I put everyone's laundry away as she would like either. 

Mostly I am just tired of biting my tongue and giving the benefit of the doubt while watching us spin apart over little things while ignoring the big problems.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

The only reason I could find that would make me upset about that would be that my husband went and told his side of the story and they apparently figured out that I had the most problems without hearing my side as well. I'm glad she is going to go with you. 

Also that the tax return is "yours" vs. ours. That tax return money should be shared anyway so it shouldn't matter who's name is on it. If it was presented more as "we are getting back $x" would it have caused a fight still?


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> The only reason I could find that would make me upset about that would be that my husband went and told his side of the story and they apparently figured out that I had the most problems without hearing my side as well. I'm glad she is going to go with you.


I went first due to giving her the benefit of the doubt that all of our problems come from me. If you have read any of my other threads here you would see what I am going though more clearly. She has some mental and physical health issues she doesn't see a need to take care of with any level of seriousness. 



> Also that the tax return is "yours" vs. ours. That tax return money should be shared anyway so it shouldn't matter who's name is on it. If it was presented more as "we are getting back $x" would it have caused a fight still?


She wanted to know how to get the most returns and that was to file separate. 

My intentions for our refunds were to use what I got to pay off my bills from the year and use hers to pay off her bills. Unfortunately she didn't get a fraction of what I got so she is mad about it even though I decided to put a fair amount of what I got towards paying off some of her bills. 

I also have a good sized profit sharing payment coming forma company I worked at last year so I had planed to use that to pay off more things and she was made well aware of that. 

The problem is I have been on her to start being more financially responsible and she hates it. I would be happy if we could run everything as ours but so far she has proven she has near zero financial management skills or ability to rationalize what is necessary spending and what is not.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> I went first due to giving her the benefit of the doubt that all of our problems come from me. If you have read any of my other threads here you would see what I am going though more clearly. She has some mental and physical health issues she doesn't see a need to take care of with any level of seriousness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have read 2 of them, I commented on one. I still think the counselor should hear both sides of the story before deciding who has the primary problems. It's easy to spin a story in your favor when you feel the other person is at fault. Her feelings are just as valid as yours. You both feel the other is at fault, it seems messy so it's a good thing you are going to go together and not just you, that's all I mean. 

I can understand her annoyance that because she made more than you she won't be befitting as much from the tax return.
I also understand she is bad with savings, but if you are splitting household expenses based on income, she carries a higher amount by roughly 3x? Wouldn't that mean you are still benefiting from her higher income in some way? If so, you should consider splitting the return 50/50 for your bills and hers IMO. What was your fair amount to go towards her?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm guessing she was mad because you went to the counselor behind her back and used it to get ammo against her. A marriage counselor is supposed to be a facilitator, not a judge and jury.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

It's pretty obvious. She thinks she's better than you. As long as you stay in your place, she'll be fine. Sad..........


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Also- if the tax return is just over payment because your income was so low your tax liability was low you could consider changing your withholdings so you get it on your pay cheques and not one lump sum. This would raise your income and take a bit off what she is responsible for as the primary breadwinner. It's not a bonus, it's income.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

That a boy. Stay in your place. You have no right to do with your earnings, as you please.  It's not her fault she's jealous, it's your's.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> That a boy. Stay in your place. You have no right to do with your earnings, as you please.  It's not her fault she's jealous, it's your's.


If he has the right to do with his earnings as he pleases then so should she, which he clearly doesn't want. 
If she made the same as him and was now 50% of the income instead of say 75% he would have a lot less money because he would now be responsible for 50% of the household vs. 25%. He gets to benefit because of her income all year and then tax returns are "his" money? :scratchhead: 
Would this be such an issue if the genders were reversed?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

married tech said:


> She wanted to know how to get the most returns and that was to file separate.


Did you run the taxes both as married jointly and as married separately? It seems very odd to be that your earn 25% of your joint income but there was a better combined tax refund if you both filed separately. 

Usually filing married but separate is a higher tax rate. So with one party having a much higher income, that person will pay a much much higher tax rate.


I can see where she'd be annoyed if you two ran the taxes in both scenarios and found that married but separate gave you two a better over all tax refund (hers + yours). Then you claim the tax return on your income as yours alone. She probably feels like you stuck her with less cash to pay her bills with and stuck her with a higher tax rate.

Yes I know it call comes out in the wash...

but want is all of this her your tax return; her and your bills? What happened to "we". You know the "we" that is the product of being married?

It might be a lot wiser to consider all of the tax return as "our money" and then the two of you jointly come to agreement on how it will be used to by "our bills".


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If he has the right to do with his earnings as he pleases then so should she, which he clearly doesn't want.
> If she made the same as him and was now 50% of the income instead of say 75% he would have a lot less money because he would now be responsible for 50% of the household vs. 25%. He gets to benefit because of her income all year and then tax returns are "his" money? :scratchhead:
> Would this be such an issue if the genders were reversed?


Yes, this would be an issue if it was reversed.

Also, if they are basing their worth in their marriage on earning potential, it's an issue of incompatibility. She didn't realise she needed a man that makes the same as her or more. That's alright. He just needs to increase his income. Then, all will be fine, correct? I just think there will be other things that crop up. This is a symptom of a much bigger problem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> That a boy. Stay in your place. You have no right to do with your earnings, as you please.  It's not her fault she's jealous, it's your's.


With this in mind. 

Perhaps the solution is that he lives at his income level.

She lives at hers. 

This way they both can do with their money as the choose.

Right now he has access to a lot of her income as she is the main financial support. I doubt that he's ready to give up that access.

Filing married but separate is obviously not in her best interest. With his attitude that his money is his and her money is his, why would she even agree to filing anything but married joint?

This is the problem with having his money and her money in marriage....


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I can see where she'd be annoyed if you two ran the taxes in both scenarios and found that married but separate gave you two a better over all tax refund (hers + yours).


This was what I was thinking, too.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

John Lee said:


> I'm guessing she was mad because you went to the counselor behind her back and used it to get ammo against her. A marriage counselor is supposed to be a facilitator, not a judge and jury.


This is my take on why she's upset about the marriage counselor. 

It's not the MC's job to assign blame on either spouse. So how exactly did that happen? Or is the OP misunderstanding what was said to him?

There are obviously problems in this marriage. They both share 50/50 in the state of the marriage. That is the view point that a good marriage counselor takes.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Right now he has access to a lot of her income as she is the main financial support. I doubt that he's ready to give up that access.



I would be interested in a list, that he makes, of what he actually has access to, before I can agree with this. I'm not disputing this MIGHT be the case.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

There is no doubt that you wife has you well trained.

Time has come to remove the leash and take a stand - NOW!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There are obviously problems in this marriage. They both share 50/50 in the state of the marriage. That is the view point that a good marriage counselor takes.


Then incomes should be combined into one account. Taxes filed jointly or separately and all returns placed in the joint account. There should be an allowance, not based on individual earnings, but on the total earnings. Each should get the same amount for allowance. 

That is 50/50.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

How does taxes work in the US with kids? 
Would filing separate mean only 1 person could claim the child? 
If so and part of his tax return is because he is claiming the child as a dependent that makes it even more BOTH their money and not just his.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

You are like me. We are the face put to every problem in our wives life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> I also understand she is bad with savings, but if you are splitting household expenses based on income, she carries a higher amount by roughly 3x? Wouldn't that mean you are still benefiting from her higher income in some way? If so, you should consider splitting the return 50/50 for your bills and hers IMO. What was your fair amount to go towards her?



Actually by the numbers I am carrying the overall financial load not her. I cover our electricity heat vehicle maintenance insurances home repairs and half the food plus up until recently also manages to put at least $200 a month into our joint savings. 

Granted she has our health care but to be honest if she dropped it it would not change her paycheck enough to make any difference at the end of the month. Other than that all she has is her half of the food and at best a $70 a month combined phone and internet TV bill being she works for the phone company and gets them at a company rate. 

When we have had discussions about the bills she usually comes up with odd unrelated topics of where I have spent money in the past that have nothing to do with current situations.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> How does taxes work in the US with kids?
> Would filing separate mean only 1 person could claim the child?
> If so and part of his tax return is because he is claiming the child as a dependent that makes it even more BOTH their money and not just his.


Yes, only one parent can claim a child. If they have two children, each parent can take one child... etc.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

That parts easy to solve. Let a professional get the most she/he can and pay them to do it. Done......see what I was getting at?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

married tech said:


> Actually by the numbers I am carrying the overall financial load not her. I cover our electricity heat vehicle maintenance insurances home repairs and half the food plus up until recently also manages to put at least $200 a month into our joint savings.
> 
> Granted she has our health care but to be honest if she dropped it it would not change her paycheck enough to make any difference at the end of the month. Other than that all she has is her half of the food and at best a $70 a month combined phone and internet TV bill being she works for the phone company and gets them at a company rate.
> 
> When we have had discussions about the bills she usually comes up with odd unrelated topics of where I have spent money in the past that have nothing to do with current situations.


Do you two have children?

Who pays the mortgage? I don't' see it listed here.

This is a topic that you two need to take up with a counselor and with a financial planner. It gets back to what I said earlier... where is the 'we' in this marriage? So far is sounds like two individuals who are fighting for who has the power. If that's the case and the marriage cannot be turned into a partnership, then it's over.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> Actually by the numbers I am carrying the overall financial load not her. I cover our electricity heat vehicle maintenance insurances home repairs and half the food plus up until recently also manages to put at least $200 a month into our joint savings.
> 
> Granted she has our health care but to be honest if she dropped it it would not change her paycheck enough to make any difference at the end of the month. Other than that all she has is her half of the food and at best a $70 a month combined phone and internet TV bill being she works for the phone company and gets them at a company rate.
> 
> When we have had discussions about the bills she usually comes up with odd unrelated topics of where I have spent money in the past that have nothing to do with current situations.



So who pays the mortgage? I thought you had said in another thread that you put an amount based on % into a joint account for bills and household so that was what I was going off of.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> but want is all of this her your tax return; her and your bills? What happened to "we". You know the "we" that is the product of being married?


Well as too many on this site can relate to one half of wee ran us into the ground financially while the other half of wee tried to keep us afloat. 

How do you suggest that balance to work out? DO we both go under or do we both get out priorities straight and stay a float?



> It's not the MC's job to assign blame on either spouse. So how exactly did that happen? Or is the OP misunderstanding what was said to him?


She is not blaming either of us. What she did say is that my wife appears to be suffering from depression and a possible break from reality. If your significant other was clearly convinced that the moon was a spaceship put there to watch us humans and the governments are all ran by aliens would you still think they are perfectly fine? 



> With this in mind.
> 
> Perhaps the solution is that he lives at his income level.
> 
> ...


To be honest financially I would be ahead without her more than she would be ahead without me. That's the sad part. I do not have a single interest in living outside my means at others expense. 
I carry a load of responsibilities around here that keep us from having to spend more than we do. In a way I see what I keep us from having to spend as being part of my contributions to our lives. 
Every dollar I save us by doing something myself is a dollar neither of us had to spend or work for and much of that behind the scenes work I do carries a load of financial saving when added up over a year.  



> Did you run the taxes both as married jointly and as married separately? It seems very odd to be that your earn 25% of your joint income but there was a better combined tax refund if you both filed separately.


Yes I ran the taxes both ways. Money wise this gave the better return. Believe me I know how taxes work. In fact we went through this last year when I was the primary money earner. She got a good refund and I ended up paying in a huge amount on top of my already high tax level on every paycheck.  

So for those of you who are thinking I am the freeloader think again. Last year before she got her new job and I lost mine the roles were reversed and nearly 100% of what she made was hers to spend as she pleased while I carried the majority of the expenses.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

MarriedTech,

You may want to keep all your threads together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you having issues with her keeping the noise down while you are trying to get your sleep?

I hope I'm not wrong. I apologize if I've got you confused with someone else.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> So who pays the mortgage? I thought you had said in another thread that you put an amount based on % into a joint account for bills and household so that was what I was going off of.


Don't have one.  All of our stuff is paid off and has been since the day she entered my life. We have zero loans to pay on anything and to be honest our base living costs are at best 20% of our combined take home pay. 

I may not be the big money maker for us this year but I think the fact that I am 39 and everything we have is paid for should say a something about my work ethic and money skills.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> MarriedTech,
> 
> You may want to keep all your threads together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you having issues with her keeping the noise down while you are trying to get your sleep?
> 
> I hope I'm not wrong. I apologize if I've got you confused with someone else.


No that is me. 

Sorry. I am used to engineering and technical forums where every topic is to be in a new thread. 

If the moderators or whomever run this place want to put all of my threads into one that fine with me.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

married tech said:


> No that is me.
> 
> Sorry. I am used to engineering and technical forums where every topic is to be in a new thread.
> 
> If the moderators or whomever run this place want to put all of my threads into one that fine with me.


It's not the moderation. It's that it's much easier to get the big picture when they are all together. Her reactions to you in that thread make a little difference here. 

I don't say you are solely correct or that she is. I just mean there is much more to this than the money and everyone is trying to help you figure out the money, as it's own issue.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

My ex sent word to me by somebody I didn't realize even knew me or where I'm presently living. She says she wants to reconcile and says she is willing to bury the past.
I just told her friend to relate that I still have the glaring problem which she insisted caused her to stray like an alley cat and I would have to die and be born in a different carcass for it to be alleviated. Of course, I also know her only interest is to get a roof over her head, so I'm not surprised she'd be willing to "bend a little".


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I keep reading 'my wife is a major PITA' in your threads. Would that be an accurate description? Do you find her moodiness and emotional responses so irritating and that she needs FIXING (I'm reading this too, she's defective in your eyes).

If only she were a software bug. Not a human at all. Your problems would easily be solved. I think you find yourself superior to her because she's emotional. At least it's the tone of the way you speak about her... your anger comes across that way. 

Control. It's something we just don't have when it comes to our spouse and their behavior. We have two choices... we can ask and hope they respond to us lovingly, or we can accept who they are. That may mean not being with them, but constantly trying to impose our will on them hoping to wear them into submission is NOT the answer.

She's going to counseling next time. That's a good step. Take it and hush.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> I don't say you are solely correct or that she is. I just mean there is much more to this than the money and everyone is trying to help you figure out the money, as it's own issue.


Well that was my whole point of finding a counselor. I had no clue as to how to start fixing things. What I do know is I am trying to find help for my wife so that we have a common understanding of what if fair and right between each other. 

As far as my wife's side of thing I have no idea what she thinks other than apparently space aliens will eventually come and help us all out in the near future. Unfortunately that's not what I can accept as a rational method and plan to try and fix thing with.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> We have zero loans to pay on anything and to be honest our base living costs are at best 20% of our combined take home pay.


Then I don't understand the big worry about her spending. If she feels that money is not a big issue since you have no debt and can easily pay your expenses then it would be logical that she not see a problem with spending and feel that if _you _are concerned about money that you can just as easily look for a way to make more and not put it all on _her _ as the bad one. Just like you could have just as easily gone to bed at 11 instead of expecting her to go to bed at 9. I don't see the clear right/wrong situation that you do here. 

I'm a saver, I agree with your thinking. That said not everyone has to be a saver, if there is no debt and living expenses are paid there is nothing inherently wrong with being a spender. 

She's not you, you can't make her do what you want. Don't count out her feelings and opinions just because they aren't the same as yours.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> I keep reading 'my wife is a major PITA' in your threads. Would that be an accurate description? Do you find her moodiness and emotional responses so irritating and that she needs FIXING (I'm reading this too, she's defective in your eyes).


Its not so much that I want control. II just want the crazy confrontational irrational person that she became to go away and let the woman i love an married come back. 

As far as personal control goes of course I want some control in my life! If the sane rational person you married turned into a nut case for the majority of the time wouldn't you want to take some control back just to keep your sanity an to keep some hope that the person you know can be brought home again? 

I miss the woman I married and I want her back, Okay?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Then I don't understand the big worry about her spending. If she feels that money is not a big issue since you have no debt and can easily pay your expenses then it would be logical that she not see a problem with spending and feel that if _you _are concerned about money that you can just as easily look for a way to make more and not put it all on _her _ as the bad one. Just like you could have just as easily gone to bed at 11 instead of expecting her to go to bed at 9. I don't see the clear right/wrong situation that you do here.
> 
> I'm a saver, I agree with your thinking. That said not everyone has to be a saver, if there is no debt and living expenses are paid there is nothing inherently wrong with being a spender.
> 
> She's not you, you can't make her do what you want. Don't count out her feelings and opinions just because they aren't the same as yours.


There is some validity to this point of view. 

As long as neither of them is running up debt that they cannot handle, there are simply two different ways of handling money going on here. Neither is right. Neither is wrong.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Then I don't understand the big worry about her spending. If she feels that money is not a big issue since you have no debt and can easily pay your expenses then it would be logical that she not see a problem with spending and feel that if you are concerned about money that you can just as easily look for a way to make more and not put it all on her as the bad one. Just like you could have just as easily gone to bed at 11 instead of expecting her to go to bed at 9. I don't see the clear right/wrong situation that you do here.
> 
> I'm a saver, I agree with your thinking. That said not everyone has to be a saver, if there is no debt and living expenses are paid there is nothing inherently wrong with being a spender.
> 
> She's not you, you can't make her do what you want. Don't count out her feelings and opinions just because they aren't the same as yours.


I agree entirely but at what point do you consider the other persons behavior to be beyond the point of rational and acceptable? Do you want to have to work 50 hours a week until the day you die and then have nothing to pass along to your family because the person you married ran you into the ground financially for your whole combined life?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

married tech said:


> Its not so much that I want control. II just want the crazy confrontational irrational person that she became to go away and let the woman i love an married come back.
> 
> As far as personal control goes of course I want some control in my life! If the sane rational person you married turned into a nut case for the majority of the time wouldn't you want to take some control back just to keep your sanity an to keep some hope that the person you know can be brought home again?
> 
> I miss the woman I married and I want her back, Okay?


If she's ACTUALLY mentally ill, then who you married wasn't who you thought. It was just another version of ALL that she is.

What you should not be doing is making that Rx on your own. They have doctors out there who are qualified to do that. Come to her on that level... you're scared. You think she's got something else going on with her mood swings and think she should see her doctor about it. Let her tell her side.

If you aren't prepared to do that then I really think you need to put a sock in it. Half of what's wrong with your marriage is that you think she's the PRIMARY problem. It's that thinking that got you into this turmoil, and she didn't do that, that's ALL YOU.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

married tech said:


> She is not blaming either of us. What she did say is that my wife appears to be suffering from depression and a possible break from reality. If your significant other was clearly convinced that the moon was a spaceship put there to watch us humans and the governments are all ran by aliens would you still think they are perfectly fine?


Are you saying that your wife believes that the moon is spaceship.. etc etc? This is a serious question.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> There is some validity to this point of view.
> 
> As long as neither of them is running up debt that they cannot handle, there are simply two different ways of handling money going on here. Neither is right. Neither is wrong.


But we are now running up debt. That's the problem! 

Up until last summer I didn't have a credit card to my name for over a decade. Now she has two that are maxed out and I am putting above and beyond things on mine since I can't keep up with the monthly expenses myself.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> As far as my wife's side of thing I have no idea what she thinks other than apparently space aliens will eventually come and help us all out in the near future. Unfortunately that's not what I can accept as a rational method and plan to try and fix thing with.


She has _never _told you what she thinks other then the alien thing? So when she was angry about the taxes she said.... aliens are coming? When you asked her to go to sleep, she said...... aliens are coming? Either you aren't listening to anything other than this stuff or you should be taking steps to get her help long before you worry about her spending or sleeping. 

This is really more of a personal mental health matter on her part anyway and not something that should be used as a way of pointing out how you must be right and she must be wrong because look, she's crazy. 

As someone with mental health problems- they are not ammunition to use against me. Don't use hers against her. She's not wrong on he taxes or the sleep or the spending _because _of these issues so don't use them to discredit her


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Are you saying that your wife believes that the moon is spaceship.. etc etc? This is a serious question.


Seriously yes. 

Major discussions have been had about how aliens are running our national and world governments and the moon is their space ship and according to her proof is all over the internet. 

When she gets going I just shut up and try to stay quiet and hope she quits. 

That's a large part of why I want her to go to the counselor. Just so I can get a more professional opinion and possible guidance on what to do here. I don't want to get a call one of these days that my wife joined a new club and drank the purple cool-aid so that she could go and live with the aliens in the moon.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> She has never told you what she thinks other then the alien thing? So when she was angry about the taxes she said.... aliens are coming? When you asked her to go to sleep, she said...... aliens are coming? Either you aren't listening to anything other than this stuff or you should be taking steps to get her help long before you worry about her spending or sleeping.
> 
> This is really more of a personal mental health matter on her part anyway and not something that should be used as a way of pointing out how you must be right and she must be wrong because look, she's crazy.
> 
> As someone with mental health problems- they are not ammunition to use against me. Don't use hers against her. She's not wrong on he taxes or the sleep or the spending because of these issues so don't use them to discredit her


That's not what I am saying at all. I am not trying to discredit her. I am trying to find help and I feel very frustrated right now. 

Part of what I am saying venting and other parts are relaying information I think may be relevant to other peoples questions.

I have no good answers here. I don't think I ever did. What I want is my wife I love back however given what she says and does I think at this point I have every reason to be suspicious of the possibility that she may not be in total control of how she sees reality. 

Then maybe I'm the crazy one. If so at least I am trying to find help!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

married tech said:


> But we are now running up debt. That's the problem!
> 
> Up until last summer I didn't have a credit card to my name for over a decade. Now she has two that are maxed out and I am putting above and beyond things on mine since I can't keep up with the monthly expenses myself.


While I think that your marital problems are much larger than your money problems... the money issues are one thing that need to be addressed.

You as an individual need to come up with the boundaries you are willing to live with. If the debt is getting out of hand then you need to protect yourself.

This means a very serious discussion about how money will be handled. You need to be very clear with her that this is a deal breaker for you and you need a plan.. one that she too can have input into.

There is a good book that could help in this conversation with your wife. .. it's "Smart Couples Finish Rich". 

If the two of you cannot come to unilateral agreement of how to handle money, and you are not comfortable with the level of debt that is being created, you need to protect yourself. That means divorce.

I'm serious about this. It's one thing for two people to simply have different outlooks on finances (spender vs saver). It's another for one spouse to financially ruin the two of you.

You are the only one who can decide what your limits are.

ETA: A large part of the issue here is to get the 'mine' and 'hers' out of your joint vocabulary. Everything financial is 'ours' and 'we'.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

married tech said:


> Seriously yes.
> 
> Major discussions have been had about how aliens are running our national and world governments and the moon is their space ship and according to her proof is all over the internet.
> 
> ...


Your wife is either experiencing psychosis or reads too much junk on the internet. I'm not sure if there is that much of a difference between these two afflictions.  :scratchhead:

Do either of you have extended family around you? It sounds to me like she needs to be evaluated for mental health problems.

How old is your wife? How long ago did she start believing in moon ships, etc?

Often marital problems are like an onion.. they exist in layers. Until you can get some help in evaluating her mental state, there is not really much you can fix in the marriage.

The MC could help you figure out what the next step is with your wife. Perhaps even how to get her to a mental health professions.. a psychiatrist or MD.

This has to be your first step.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

married tech said:


> Its not so much that I want control. II just want the crazy confrontational irrational person that she became to go away and let the woman i love an married come back.
> 
> As far as personal control goes of course I want some control in my life! If the sane rational person you married turned into a nut case for the majority of the time wouldn't you want to take some control back just to keep your sanity an to keep some hope that the person you know can be brought home again?
> 
> I miss the woman I married and I want her back, Okay?


Didn't her dad die? Isn't that when this all started? I think you need to back way off, if that is correct. Let her get some counseling. Take over for a while, if she will let you and give her a break. Then, go to some MC for whatever else needs worked on.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Your wife is either experiencing psychosis or reads too much junk on the internet. I'm not sure if there is that much of a difference between these two afflictions.  :scratchhead:
> 
> Do either of you have extended family around you? It sounds to me like she needs to be evaluated for mental health problems.
> 
> ...


Yes, there's way more to this than any of us can help with. I think this is a great idea as usual, from EleGirl. :thumbup:


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There is some validity to this point of view.
> 
> As long as neither of them is running up debt that they cannot handle, there are simply two different ways of handling money going on here. Neither is right. Neither is wrong.


 I think what he's trying to say is that they have money coming in from income and it's going out as fast as it comes in but she wants to spend and he wants to put money away to have something to fall back on.

I also think that maybe she resents the fact that she makes more than him, therefore, he doesn't have as much of a say in the financial matters. He said he was using the refund to pay off the bills and not to pocket it and spend it how ever he wants ya know?


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Your wife is either experiencing psychosis or reads too much junk on the internet. I'm not sure if there is that much of a difference between these two afflictions.
> 
> Do either of you have extended family around you? It sounds to me like she needs to be evaluated for mental health problems.
> 
> ...


She is 37 and most of this started last summer give or take and yea she eats that crap up on facebook and wherever she can find it to no end. I think it's a psychological cop out for her so that she does not have to directly deal with her poor choices she has made in her life. 
First I think she thought I came into her life to fix everything for her, and I tried, but there was too much I couldn't fix as fast or in ways that didn't require a healthy dose of reality and effort on her part. 

I am sort of thinking that she started switching to this aliens are watching and going to fix everything belief concept somewhere about the time it sank in that I can't fix all of her life for her and that she has to step up and put forth the effort herself relating to much of it.  



> Didn't her dad die? Isn't that when this all started? I think you need to back way off, if that is correct. Let her get some counseling. Take over for a while, if she will let you and give her a break. Then, go to some MC for whatever else needs worked on


Nope her dads right here living with us as happy and healthy as can be! Super nice guy and I love having him around. In fact he picks up a good deal of both of our little household chores in return for living with us. :smthumbup: 



> I think what he's trying to say is that they have money coming in from income and it's going out as fast as it comes in but she wants to spend and he wants to put money away to have something to fall back on.
> 
> I also think that maybe she resents the fact that she makes more than him, therefore, he doesn't have as much of a say in the financial matters. He said he was using the refund to pay off the bills and not to pocket it and spend it how ever he wants ya know?


Now you're getting it! Exactly. I have every intention to use what we got plus what I got as a profit sharing to knock all of our debt off and put a bit in savings so we have something to fall back on. 

One of the things she wanted to spend the money on was getting our second 4wd pickup up and running so it could be hers. Unfortunately there was not enough spare money to go around so that was going to get put on hold. 

Now earlier tonight I talked with my dad and he needs some work done and will trade the me my labor and materials for the costs of repairing her pickup. 
I came home and told her that figuring it would make her happy but now "she doesn't care WTF I do." 

No matter what I do to make things work for us in her views it's wrong or unimportant.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> Now you're getting it! Exactly. I have every intention to use what we got plus what I got as a profit sharing to knock all of our debt off and put a bit in savings so we have something to fall back on.


You said earlier you were using it for _your _bills and giving her what you felt was a fair portion towards hers so I'm confused. The above, putting it all towards mutual savings and expenses, sounds a lot different. Since it's not just your money to divvy up and decide what to do with so have you asked her what she wants to do with it? 

Edit- just saw your edit. So she did have an opinion on where some of the money should go but you said no. I'd ask her why she is upset now, if she really doesn't care or if she is hurt that what she wanted to do wasn't as important as what you wanted to do with the money? 

I get the frustration of being the only saver in a relationship. I will always spend less, I'll always be the one putting more into savings (even though I make less) but that's who I am and not who he is. I'd rather accept him, and a lower savings account, than drive myself crazy trying to turn him into me KWIM? It's meeting in the middle. Now when he thanks me later when my saving skills come in handy it makes me happy, not upset that he didn't do the same. Some people just aren't good at saving. Why not focus on something that she is better at to counter your feelings about what she is worse at?

Do you hope that the counselor will make her see things your way and tell her she's wrong? Is this why she was upset that you went without her? Do you often treat her like she was in the wrong and you were right instead of that you both have an opinion that's valid so how do you find a solution that will work?


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> You said earlier you were using it for your bills and giving her what you felt was a fair portion towards hers so I'm confused. The above, putting it all towards mutual savings and expenses, sounds a lot different. Since it's not just your money to divvy up and decide what to do with so have you asked her what she wants to do with it?


The intention was to pay my bills with what I got back and put the left over part into joint savings and do the same with her returns and her bills putting the remainder into joint savings.

When it became clear that she was not going to get much back I changed my plan to paying off as much of my stuff as I could with about half of it and using the remainder to knock her bills down. 



> I get the frustration of being the only saver in a relationship. I will always spend less, I'll always be the one putting more into savings (even though I make less) but that's who I am and not who he is. I'd rather accept him, and a lower savings account, than drive myself crazy trying to turn him into me KWIM? It's meeting in the middle. Now when he thanks me later when my saving skills come in handy it makes me happy, not upset that he didn't do the same. Some people just aren't good at saving. Why not focus on something that she is better at to counter your feelings about what she is worse at?


That's one of our biggest problems. When an emergency or special circumstance comes along where using our savings to pay for it would be good we have nothing which makes her mad that I didn't put more in even though she kept spending it as fast as I could put it in there. 

She wanted her own 4wd pickup so I got one for $2000 that needed engine work and tires. The agreement was that I paid the $2000 to buy it and she would come up with the remaining money to title it in her name and pay for the tires and engine work. Tow years later that pickup is sitting right were I parked it because she has yet to ever save a dime or let our savings build up enough to fix the damn thing and she is mad at me for it. 
To me the worst part is is that if we had stayed on our agreed joint bill paying and savings plans we could have had her pickup on the road over a year ago. heck to be honest on her current take home pay just using her play money she could have had the thing on the road in 4 paychecks. 



> Do you hope that the counselor will make her see things your way and tell her she's wrong? Is this why she was upset that you went without her? Do you often treat her like she was in the wrong and you were right instead of that you both have an opinion that's valid so how do you find a solution that will work?


I try not to see this as wrong or right but more what is rational and proper Vs unrealistic impulsive and more than likely highly self destructive. 

As far as me going without her I wanted to see if this counselor was worth us going to plus get a basic feel for if I am the one who needs the personal work more or less. 

You see my wife is very peculiar about us having to do exactly the same things in each of our lives. 
If I pay a bill she has to pay one. I pay a medical expense she has to pay one. If I don't have any bills to pay she won't pay any of hers "because its unfair that I don't have any and she does" if that makes any sense.

To play on that quirk in order to get her to go willingly the most reasonable step was for me to go first. That would make her feel obligated to go in order to keep her sense of balance or whatever odd thing it is that drives her. 
I think she is more than a bit OCD ish in many ways which is where a lot of her conflicts with me come from. I don't follow a set pattern or routine and I don not feel any desire to keep every detail of my or our lives in perfect but unrealistic imagined ballance.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

Interesting situation today. 

This evening I was playing with our daughter in the living room while my wife sat across from us the whole time. 

We played silly games and fill about half a drawing tablet with silly pictures plus got some much needed an healthy laughs in by tossing stuffed animals around like they were jumping from chair to chair chasing each other and burying me in a whole pile of them. (Cripes that kid has a lot of stuffed animals) 

Half the time when my wife thought I was not watching her she was grinning laughing and having a good time but the second I she saw that I saw that it was like she has a switch that flips her from being in a good mood to being the cold angry distant person she wants me to see her as. 

It's like she was forgets to be mad and has a good time until I do something to remind her. Our daughter and I played like this for about 2 and half hours until my wife hauled her back to her bedroom which resulted in a fair amount of her crying a minute or so after she got her there. 

I don't know what she said but after that our daughter stayed away from me for the rest of the night.  

It almost felt like she is so determined to not have a good time that she has to make sure our daughter doesn't either.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

She may not have said anything to your daughter. If your daughter was crying, she just may be equating you with emotional hurt. It's a kind of alienation. What do you think you could possibly have done to make your wife mistrust you?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's close to my definition of Republicans (or Democrats).... People who stay up all night worried that out there, some other people are having a good time.

You can't win those people. It often outright kills them to see you're having a good time.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> She may not have said anything to your daughter. If your daughter was crying, she just may be equating you with emotional hurt. It's a kind of alienation. What do you think you could possibly have done to make your wife mistrust you?


Our daughters body language suggested that she was more concerned about her mothers responses than mine. She wanted to play with me but kept looking at mom who's looks said otherwise. 

That's just it I am not sure what I did to cause this. I have had a number of outright blames put on me but to me none of them make any rational sense. 

Most relate to my not following her OCD like rules she has come up with in the last year. She has got mad at me a number of times for not doing simple things for her that she is more than capable of figuring out and doing herself plus has done in the past countless times without problems. I didn't marry a uneducated idiot with no arms or legs so I don;t let her act like one when it suits her convenience. 

She has developed this attitude that she can pick and choose what parts of tasks or work she wants to do and ignore the rest of everything and the responsibilities that goes along with it.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> It's close to my definition of Republicans (or Democrats).... People who stay up all night worried that out there, some other people are having a good time.
> 
> You can't win those people. It often outright kills them to see you're having a good time.


From my perspective it's like she has went from being an outgoing intelligent responsible adult to doing her damnedest to be a spoiled 5 year old child and when I don't let her get away with it and point out that she is a 37 year old adult I'm the bad person. 

She comes up with all of these wild highly unrealistic dreams then gets mad at me when I point out the flaws in them that would prevent them from ever becoming a reality.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The 5 year old and unrealistic expectations (magical thinking) comments make me wonder if you're dealing with some kind of personality disorder, like BPD.


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## "joe" (Aug 19, 2013)

married tech said:


> got some much needed an healthy laughs in by tossing stuffed animals around like they were jumping from chair to chair chasing each other and burying me in a whole pile of them.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Toss beanie babies to ceiling fan and wait for the thunk


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

married tech said:


> Our daughters body language suggested that she was more concerned about her mothers responses than mine. She wanted to play with me but kept looking at mom who's looks said otherwise.


This brings up a point. If you split with your wife, your daughter may want to stay with her. She has your love and aproval, she's secure in her relationship with you, but not with her mother. It could go either way, but you need to be aware of this possibility and keep in mind that if she does decide to stay with her mother it's probably not a negative reflection of her feelings for you.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

We just had a major sit down and cry session over this and she agreed to go and if she needs medical help she will get it. 

It comes down to the issues of she wants multiple things from me and they don't all agree with each other or what I view as being reasonable or entirely rational. 
She wants me to be the leading man of the house yet she does not want to do things my way. I am supposed to work and provide for our family yet doing the work I do now plus the personal at home work saves us a pile of unnecessary work and expense doesn't sit well with her. 

Instead of being self employed and being able to take two to three weeks off of my normal work to do a major project for us I am more than skilled and qualified to do for say $5000 using my equipment and tools plus my time she feels I should hire a contractor to it for $40,000 and work 50 hours a week for two years paying a loan off for it. 
That does not sit well with me. I find it a bit of an insult and a total waste of good money and effort. 

Overall it went rather well except the part about telling her she has a bad memory about things and changes her mind and forgets it. According to her that never happens.
How exactly do you convince a person otherwise?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Give them enough, "rope", to, "hang themselves". It's not the best answer, though. I don't think. It's what came up for me.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

It sounds like your wife has more of a need for financial support than acts of service. 
How many of these projects have you done in the past year?
How much more time would it take for the rest to be done?
Could you come to a compromise that you will finish the home projects in 1 year and then go back to work full time? 

Reading through this forum there are a lot of women who prefer their husbands to make more money and be the breadwinner of the relationship, I don't think it's that uncommon.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Do not give up what you love for someone else. You won't be happy. It will destroy you and that is worse than destroying a marriage.

You must learn to spend time with her doing things that will make both of you feel loved. Apparently, she does not feel appreciated or loved. Find out what makes her feel loved, but don' give up who you are to make her feel loved. She may be so down on herself, nothing will make her feel loved. 

I think you are going about this the right way, by getting her into counseling. I do think you need to spend quality time with her and it's not too much for her to ask. I think you need to think of these projects differently. They aren't quality couples time. Make other free time to show her you love her in a way that is meaningful to her and isn't going to reduce your self-respect or her's for you.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> How many of these projects have you done in the past year?
> How much more time would it take for the rest to be done?
> Could you come to a compromise that you will finish the home projects in 1 year and then go back to work full time?


Several. I moved the old house off its original location and down to a new spot in the yard to make room for us to build a new house. 

I had to move around 3000 cubic yards of dirt to build up the area where the old house went plus put in a whole new sewer electrical and water service. 

After that I got the hole dug for the full basement for the new house (~1500 Sq ft plus 28' x 36' garage built into the side of a hill) and would have gotten the concrete for the basement in had we not taken a month plus long trip to her home country. 

When we got back the ground had frozen solid so that put an end to the new house project until things thaw out in April. 
Fortunately just before we left I put in a weeks worth of hard days designing and trenching in a hot water line set from my shop (~350 feet away) down to the old house so that we could have free heat all winter. 
I am really glad I did being that the old house was propane heated and right now propane is pushing $4.50 a gallon and heating this place normally burned about 400 - 500 gallons a month. 

I may have not worked full time last year where I could have made around $60K before taxes but I did make about 1/3 of that plus accomplished everything I listed instead saving us about $150 - $175 K over having hired contractors to do the work. 

I am planning to do the same for this year as well to get the new house and all the dirt work around it in place and done which again going by the the area she wants filled in around to for landscaping I probably have another 3000 or so yards of dirt to haul in. 

Oh yea BTW I did all of the work without taking out a single loan too. I don't know how most of you view a mans duties in a family but by mine I say I am earning my keep here without having a full time job of which I personally feel that most days would be the easier thing to do.

(Personally I sort of feel I deserve a light workload winter.)


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Having money to spend, and using it to help make her happy, is going to be more important. What you are doing is great, but she doesn't understand. I don't think you can ask her to, honestly.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> I don't know how most of you view a mans duties in a family but by mine I say I am earning my keep here without having a full time job of which I personally feel that most days would be the easier thing to do.
> 
> (Personally I sort of feel I deserve a light workload winter.)


I think what matters is how she views a man's duties in a family.
For me, if I came home and was told he wanted to quit his job to work less hours and make less money so he could do the big projects around the house, my response would be "Oh, hell no" 

We have done several big projects (gutted and re-did rooms, extensive outdoor work) all on the weekends and evenings after working at least 50 hrs/ week, they don't get done quickly but it doesn't cost us contractors either. I very much appreciate this work that was done but would not be Ok with him sacrificing his job/money to do them. If I had to chose one or the other, I would pick that he work full time. This isn't just your life so take her feelings into consideration. 

It would be the same as if I (or your wife) just came home and said "I quit my job to be a SAHM" it's not a choice that should be made unless BOTH people are on board.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

She is a highly skilled and accredited Architect who designed most of what I did last summer. In fact it I gave a hint to what past design work she has done you could easily find it online. She had better know its value.  

To me doing what I did with my own hands and skills says love and dedication. just going to work to make money to toss away when I don't have to to show off how much we can spend on having something we can do ourselves is not love to me.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> It would be the same as if I (or your wife) just came home and said "I quit my job to be a SAHM" it's not a choice that should be made unless BOTH people are on board.


Actually when she moved her it took about 18 months for her to get her green card and I supported us 100%. 

I had zero issue with her not working. She did! She is or was the natural busy body type where sitting at home drives her nuts. 

If she had the knowledge, abilities and work ethic to do all of the work I do around here with anywhere near the proficiency I have I would have zero problem with her being at home and I working full time.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I am surprised you're not more worried about the fact she believes the moon is a spaceship. How old is your daughter? Did she have some kind of post partum psychosis that set this kind of thinking off?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> Actually when she moved her it took about 18 months for her to get her green card and I supported us 100%.
> 
> I had zero issue with her not working. She did! She is or was the natural busy body type where sitting at home drives her nuts.
> 
> If she had the knowledge, abilities and work ethic to do all of the work I do around here with anywhere near the proficiency I have I would have zero problem with her being at home and I working full time.


That's the point. It would be an Ok choice for her because you would be OK with it (both people on board).
She does not have zero issue with you not working full time (both people _not _on board). 
So now it's a situation that needs to be resolved by compromise. 
Talk to her and find a way to meet in the middle. That means YOU have to give too, how _she _needs you to- not how you feel you should or she should want. Just because you feel love one way doesn't mean that she feels it the same way. 

She wants you to work full time and be the financial provider for the family. You want time off to do home projects. Both are valid, rational, reasonable feelings. How can you meet her in the middle?


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> I am surprised you're not more worried about the fact she believes the moon is a spaceship. How old is your daughter? Did she have some kind of post partum psychosis that set this kind of thinking off?


Don't you read facebook too? 

I think I worked in an insane asylum in a past life.

This rolls off me like water off a ducks butt. 



> That's the point. It would be an Ok choice for her because you would be OK with it (both people on board).
> She does not have zero issue with you not working full time (both people not on board)


The only reason I did it was because we agreed to it. Financially it made the most sense and skills wise I had what it takes. 

The only real problem is she is used to working with multimillion dollar budgets with large crews of people. We don't have either and I can only do so much so fast. 

I think the reality of how long these sort of projects take when done on a personal scale and budget was something she was not fully aware of. 
That and by nature she is an extremely impatient person as is which does not help things on this project.
Just because she can draw up something in full 3D fly through CAD rendering in a day by herself does not mean it can build it in a day by one person by themself.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

married tech said:


> She is a highly skilled and accredited Architect who designed most of what I did last summer. In fact it I gave a hint to what past design work she has done you could easily find it online. She had better know its value.



OMG!!

You married Zaha Hadid!!! 

(Apologies to the rest of TAM for the obscure reference - but if MT's wife knows Zaha she knows she's not an easy person to deal with - like most architects )


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

married tech said:


> The only reason I did it was because we agreed to it. Financially it made the most sense and skills wise I had what it takes.
> 
> The only real problem is she is used to working with multimillion dollar budgets with large crews of people. We don't have either and I can only do so much so fast.
> 
> ...


I feel that you really aren't listening to me and instead just using every opportunity you can to talk yourself up and your wife down. I get it, you think you are much much better than your wife. I don't agree and am not going to so you can stop trying to convince me  

I think her feelings are just as valid as yours and I feel that there could also be some gaslighting going on to make her feel she is irrational for her valid feelings. I'm not sure if you talk to her the same way you talk here. 

Until you view your wife as just as important, valid, capable, and rational as you are there's not a lot that can be done to help IMO. She has flaws, so do you. You don't seem to acknowledge yours as much as you talk about hers. You've said very, very little about anything good about her yet have snuck in something positive about yourself, and something bad about her, in a number of your posts. 

I could go through and pick out many negative adjectives you've used to describe your wife, how does this help you? If you can look at her more positively you might see some improvements in the way she acts towards you. I wouldn't be cheerful and trustful around a man who describes me the way you do her.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I think his concerns are quite valid. Wit the last paragraph - 3D CAD in a day, expectation for everything else to be done in a day.

My wife is like that. Just because she has her own personal supercomputer at work and an army of offshore resources to tend to her does not mean that the rest if the world operates in her schedule... 

Pointing out flaws in our spouses does not magically elevate us. Take my word on it, we men are pretty good with self assessing our worth and require little validation or head patting there. 

But oftentimes women, and professional women at that, have personal expectations within their family that are fairly unrealistic. Pointing out such expectations is not undermining our spouses - it's reality.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

john117 said:


> I think his concerns are quite valid. Wit the last paragraph - 3D CAD in a day, expectation for everything else to be done in a day.
> 
> My wife is like that. Just because she has her own personal supercomputer at work and an army of offshore resources to tend to her does not mean that the rest if the world operates in her schedule...
> 
> ...


If her wanting the work done too quickly was his only complaint I would see your point. I am talking about several posts and threads worth of complaints about her with just as many taking advantage of opportunities to point out his strengths against it. 
IMO the accumulation of everything crossed the line between asking for help with flaws and wife bashing. I would certainly feel that way if I was the woman being talked about here and would be very upset the "Here's why I'm wonderful and here's why you're terrible" attitude I've been reading here.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Maybe I am too cynical (I am) but I should point out that boards like TAM are generally not the best place one would expect to find unbiased ways of a married spouse talking about their partner.

If the relationship was "solid" or as "solid" as it gets, we would be seeing questions about whether it is ok to serve Coke or Pepsi to our inlaws, or whether we should run our wedding vows thru a spelling checker, and do on. That is not the case.

Think of it as crowdsourced therapy. In therapy the therapist usually works with one sided information, and no hood way to accurately asses its provenance. It's not much different here.

Most of us are here because the dashboard has popped a "Check Marriage" indicator and we know something is amiss. If a spouse is running a 10-1 putdown to complement ratio chances are in real life it's not 10-9 or 10-8 either... So whether it's 10-1 or 10-3 is not the issue...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

john117 said:


> Maybe I am too cynical (I am) but I should point out that boards like TAM are generally not the best place one would expect to find unbiased ways of a married spouse talking about their partner.
> 
> If the relationship was "solid" or as "solid" as it gets, we would be seeing questions about whether it is ok to serve Coke or Pepsi to our inlaws, or whether we should run our wedding vows thru a spelling checker, and do on. That is not the case.
> 
> ...


Yes but the point should be to get help for your marriage, not just rant about how horrible your spouse is and talk yourself up. If someone just needs people to tell them yes, your partner is horrible and you are so wonderful she should just do and feel what you tell her to then they should just say so, I won't respond. 
I'm saying it's not going to help his marriage by constantly bringing up every flaw she has and never recognizing that her feelings and opinions are as valid as his. ETA- obviously he doesn't have to take my advice either but I don't see anything that suggests him fixing things outside of her just changing. 

She's irrational, impatient, moody, spoiled, unreasonable, mentally ill, irresponsible, naive, etc, etc, etc... if someone is really so terrible then why be with them at all? Would she even want to be with someone who thinks so poorly of her?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes but the point should be to get help for your marriage, not just rant about how horrible your spouse is and talk yourself up. If someone just needs people to tell them yes, your partner is horrible and you are so wonderful she should just do and feel what you tell her to then they should just say so, I won't respond.
> I'm saying it's not going to help his marriage by constantly bringing up every flaw she has and never recognizing that her feelings and opinions are as valid as his. ETA- obviously he doesn't have to take my advice either but I don't see anything that suggests him fixing things outside of her just changing.
> 
> She's irrational, impatient, moody, spoiled, unreasonable, mentally ill, irresponsible, naive, etc, etc, etc... if someone is really so terrible then why be with them at all? Would she even want to be with someone who thinks so poorly of her?



In my case after a few weeks of my daughter's IC the lovely and ferocious Dr. Jamie (lookalike of Jamie Lee Curtis) dragged me into he IC sessions. After a long while IC'ing she heard my view of what my wife's behavior was doing to my daughter and my marriage. It was about what MT said in terms of good/bad. 

So the good doc dragged my wife into FC as well for a few sessions and basically did not find much of what I claimed or my daughter claimed were off the mark. Sure, we did not focus more on the positives but thats kind of hard when you deal with BPD.

The message here would be that the format of TAM is conducive to bias but there's a lot of reality.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

john117 said:


> In my case after a few weeks of my daughter's IC the lovely and ferocious Dr. Jamie (lookalike of Jamie Lee Curtis) dragged me into he IC sessions. After a long while IC'ing she heard my view of what my wife's behavior was doing to my daughter and my marriage. It was about what MT said in terms of good/bad.
> 
> So the good doc dragged my wife into FC as well for a few sessions and basically did not find much of what I claimed or my daughter claimed were off the mark. Sure, we did not focus more on the positives but thats kind of hard when you deal with BPD.
> 
> The message here would be that the format of TAM is conducive to bias but there's a lot of reality.


Yours is an example that I would think would be pretty uncommon. More often than not, problems in a marriage come from both sides. Both people need to look at themselves, compromise and work together. 
It is much more rare to have one spouse who is just simply wrong all the time and just needs to do what the other partner wants despite their own feelings, especially when we aren't talking about abuse or infidelity. So when someone talks so one-sidedly, I have my doubts. 

When talking about things like her wanting him to work full time, when she goes to bed, how much money she can spend, to have some say in tax money, to include her in the decision to start counseling, etc, none of these things have a clear right or wrong answer yet he wants to say he is right and she is wrong- period. He wants her to see that she is being "unreasonable" about these issues when all I see is that she just doesn't agree with him about them. That does not make a woman irrational or wrong.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks for standing up for me John117! 

I am not basing my wife nor am I trying to make myself sound like a super husband. Neither of us fit those descriptions in real life. we both have good and bad points. Right now heres are putting a huge strain on me and it shows. 

Why I am saying what I say is because I am answering peoples questions as to why I see things as I do and think as I do. 

I understand that I may come off as arrogant but then I know my skill sets and I do not believe in throwing good money always to make someone else who does not value money the same happy. 
If I did I would be no better than the millions of average people who are going to spend their entire lives under a mountain of debt trying to show they are better than everyone else by tossing good money at things that they could have easily learned to do themselves. 

Maybe some see my being raised with old school money and self worth values but that too bad for them. Bury yourself in debt until you are well past dead and hate those of us few non conventional folks who still have the brains and common sense to apply our skills and talents to make our live better. 

As far as tooting my own horn well yea I think I may have earned it a bit. 
How many on this site had all of their life possessions paid off in full before they were 35 plus own the necessary earth moving equipment required to do a full home relocation and new home construction project themselves literally from below ground level up and did not get there because they came from a wealthy family or inherited a pile of money?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Until you view your wife as just as important, valid, capable, and *rational* as you are there's not a lot that can be done to help IMO. She has flaws, so do you. You don't seem to acknowledge yours as much as you talk about hers. You've said very, very little about anything good about her yet have snuck in something positive about yourself, and something bad about her, in a number of your posts.


Um, she thinks the moon is an alien space ship. I think if I were MT I'd be insulted at the claim that she's as rational as me.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Um, she thinks the moon is an alien space ship. I think if I were MT I'd be insulted at the claim that she's as rational as me.


And the US and most of the world governments are ran by aliens too. Dont forget that part. 

I am not offended by what others here think. If all of us were in better relationships and had all our collective marbles in the right bags none of us would be here.


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