# First MC Session, Help



## Cecezakat

:frown2: I'm hurt and so frustrated. 

I decided to find a therapist recently. I went to see her alone and really liked her approach. We agreed that we should try MC since my husband said he was willing to go and that is what I would rather work on right now. This week my husband and I went for the first time. I was tense the whole session because I knew he doesn't really want to be there and would be looking for reasons why he doesn't want to go to counseling. It didn't go too well. 

The therapist asked us to bring up an old fight so she could see what happens. Of course it quickly snowballed into a bunch of issues, with us both trying to be heard and be right. We have never resolved any past fight and have always "ignored" them until they pop up again. 

She stopped us and and told us to practice listening and repeating back what the other said first. That was very hard for both of us. My husband kept telling the therapist he is over it and doesn't have any problem and wants me to get over it too. She told him he clearly isn't over it based on how willing he was to bring up additional issues and to fight over this old problem again. 

He also lied a few times and said very hurtful things. I understand that we are supposed to practice respecting the others right to their feelings and opinions but its hard to do when he makes up things that aren't true. 

For example, he said that I refuse to make friends and I depend solely on him for friendship and happiness. He said that whenever someone says hi to me in public I ignore them and don't say hi back! This has literally never happened. He said he wants his own space and to be left alone. I want the same thing, but he pulls me into interacting with him, even when I tell him I want to be left alone. He texts me all day at work and calls me on every lunch break, even when I'm dealing with our toddler and we have nothing to talk about. 

When I go out by myself he makes jokes that why did you put make-up on, where are you going? If I'm visiting my mom he calls and texts constantly. But according to him, I'm the one with a problem depending on him and not having any friends and not giving him his space. Well we've moved 4 times in 2 years trying to secure him a job with his degree. Every time I started to make friends we moved away! 

He kept making things up during the session and grossly misrepresenting the issues in our marriage. Basically with the end result that I'm the one with the problem because I can't just "get over" our past issues. Nevermind that he holds all these past issues in his arsenal to bombard me with any time that benefits him and nevermind our ongoing issues. He also accused me of lying to him and misrepresenting things to him to justify his past behavior. 

Because we had a nice weekend (we're getting better at dancing around our problems) he was holding my hand on the drive to the therapist's office and smiling. On the way back he was silent, and I was afraid to speak and have a fight start. He didn't try to hold my hand at all. He tried to talk normal at home a few times, which I ignored because he usually starts out nice and then brings up a problem and we fight. I didn't want to hear his complaints about the therapist office and how he doesn't need to go. 

This morning when he was leaving for work he came and cuddled with me. I told him I'm not feeling well and he offered to get me medicine. He was being nice and then it came out....He said he doesn't want to go to MC anymore. Again he said he was misled and thought it was going to be IC for me and he was just meeting with the therapist, etc. 

None of this true, I've been clear that I want us to go to counseling, he says he wants to too. The therapist asked him at the end of the session if this is what he would like to do and he said yes and we scheduled the next appointment. But now he says he was misled and he doesn't want to do MC "right now." I said we need to do it and you agreed to go next week, so you have to. He said "who decides that I have to go? you? I don't have to go and I don't want to go." I told him I want us to get counseling or I'm going to make arrangements to move out. We can't keep ignoring our issues. He then agreed to go next week and tell the therapist he doesn't want to go anymore. 

I'm so exhausted with this.


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## Cecezakat

How can MC work if one partner lies and misrepresents issues to blame the other? How can I validate whatever he decides to make up in the moment? Even if I can get him to keep coming to MC I don't see how anything will change. I don't know if he can ever change and work on this marriage. 

Does counseling get better with more visits? Is it still worth it for me to continue IC if he refuses to come to any more sessions?


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## Mr.Fisty

It sounds like he needs IC first. It is telling that he uses bombardment tactics to overwhelm you and when you try to logic it out, he bombards you again.

It is a way of minimizing the others position by sheer amount of volume. Why you do not have stability and friends, you place his career and him before your own well-being. Uou should start off separately and he should have his own individual session so the counselor can see the story from both angles. Although, given the context of his career, you had a pattern of losing attachments quickly before moving on. It makes the motivation of constantly creating new people difficult.

His suggestion of quitting counseling is telling and add that on with his argument style. He is manipulative. He tried being loving to get the goal of you agreeing with him. I am guessing that you have noticed this. If not, be wary of his actions.

Also, He sucked you into his behavior by making you go on the defensive and attacking back. It fuels his own need to keep bombarding.

Detach, and if possible, be calm and collective.

Also, keep track of his constant calls and text towards you to show the counselor. Do this privately first so your counselor has a clearer picture. If he is there, he will try and twist the facts around to suit himself.

He is trying to manipulate to protect himself, his ego.

So, keep working on yourself. Concentrate on your own career and be a great mother at the moment. You need your own stable life and cannot keep sacrificing what is potentially your own independence if leaving should be the healthiest option for you.

And he rather drag you down with him then work on his issues. Be careful, there is probably an agenda behind the smile and words of love. His actions show that he rather keep avoiding the issues.


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## Cecezakat

I think he needs IC too but according to him he is fine and has no problems. He will not got to IC on his own. Now I confirmed that he was just pretending he wants MC to appease me. When push comes to shove, he isn't going to seek help to change. 

He is manipulative. I noticed that from the start but stupidly thought I could handle it. He has admitted to manipulating me on occasion. The question is why am I so easily manipulated? I keep falling for it every time. 

Is there any hope of him changing on his own? If I get IC and respond to him differently maybe he will adapt and change his tactics. I really don't know. He does successfully bombard me during arguments. The contrast between Mr. Nice Guy/Loving Husband to Mr. Enemy shocks me and then I get defensive and overwhelmed too. 

I did learn one thing from MC yesterday. She made me sit and listen to his tirade and it was so hard not to defend myself from his wild accusations. But it felt a lot better than trying to keep up with each thing he said and respond to it. It still hurt, but now I know that's better than being sucked into it all the way.


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## Chris Taylor

This sort of happened with me. My wife felt that every issue in our marriage was MY problem, not hers. We went to marriage counseling for a few sessions and when the MC started pointing out issues with my wife, my wife refused to go back citing "we don't need someone from outside to help us" or "she doesn't know us" or "it isn't going anywhere".

We struggled along (with me seeing an individual therapist because I knew I had issues) but the marriage deteriorated and she asked for a divorce. After a few weeks she realized divorce wasn't going to be great she asked that we not divorce.

At that point I laid down conditions for not divorcing and one was to continue marriage counseling for 6 months. If she stopped going, we'd divorce. We went, it helped.

The point is that unless he sees that EVERYONE has issues in the marriage and wants to address them, it isn't going to get better. If you drop the "D" word on him regarding all this, make sure you are ready to use it. I was.


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## Cecezakat

Chris Taylor said:


> This sort of happened with me. My wife felt that every issue in our marriage was MY problem, not hers. We went to marriage counseling for a few sessions and when the MC started pointing out issues with my wife, my wife refused to go back citing "we don't need someone from outside to help us" or "she doesn't know us" or "it isn't going anywhere".
> 
> We struggled along (with me seeing an individual therapist because I knew I had issues) but the marriage deteriorated and she asked for a divorce. After a few weeks she realized divorce wasn't going to be great she asked that we not divorce.
> 
> At that point I laid down conditions for not divorcing and one was to continue marriage counseling for 6 months. If she stopped going, we'd divorce. We went, it helped.
> 
> The point is that unless he sees that EVERYONE has issues in the marriage and wants to address them, it isn't going to get better. If you drop the "D" word on him regarding all this, make sure you are ready to use it. I was.


I'm glad that counseling did end up helping you. Did you feel it helped every time or only after several sessions? 

How did she realize you were serious about divorce too? Did you or she move out? 

My husband knows I can't move out right now. All I can express to him is my strong desire to live separate and have peace, but it will take months to happen. I'm pregnant and I don't have anyone I could live with temporarily. I will have to wait to be able to return to work. He knows it and uses it to his advantage.


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## Chris Taylor

Counseling is a process. The counselor took time to learn our backgrounds, questioned us individually, discussed issues. guided the conversation. I said 6 months but we were in a better place after two months (8-9 sessions).

I hadn't moved out but made it aware that I was looking at places to live. I had also downloaded the divorce and inventory forms and discussed them with her. I also let her know that I had spoken to a paralegal about the forms.

If you can't move out now, at least start planning. Look at housing so you understand what it will cost. Look at the job market and understand what you can do and how much you can earn. Talk to an attorney and see if you can get a feel for what child support/alimony will come to you. Don't wait to start looking at all these until you actually can get out.


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## Mr.Fisty

If you are hoping for a change, that is not guaranteed. Your first option is to change in how you respond. This means you will have to change your behavior as well. If that does not work, leave and mean it. People need motivation for change, and sometimes the most powerful motivation is loss.

If he cannot show a change for a long period of time, you have the data that he is incapable to show lasting change with the current circumstances.

Work on detachment. The more we are bonded, the more the other tends to affect us. If a near stranger bombarded you in that manner, it would be easier to walk and not take the bait. It will also be easier to let go of the near stranger as well.

Detachment also works to help you focus on yourself and your needs. Your overall mental and emotional stress would decline. Once the goal is not to save the marriage, but what is the best circumstance for your well-being, it will be easier to make that choice when it comes to it. Because if saving the marriage is the only goal, and if he does not change, you will be entrapped in your current situation.


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## Cecezakat

Thank you. I've already begun detaching from him because I've started to realize the problems HE has instead of me always feeling guilty and the one at fault. Recognizing what he does wrong in our marriage gave me the confidence to stand up for myself in ways I hadn't before. 

Do you have any materials to recommend on how to further detach yourself from your spouse while working on your own behavior?


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## Marduk

You guys both need a few weeks of IC before you go back to MC.

Are you sure he's actually lying? Or is he seeing things you don't want to see?

FWIW, my wife told me I was lying about a few things, too. Turns out I wasn't -- I just saw the facts differently. But it took being presented with the facts to get her to see that.


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## Cecezakat

marduk said:


> You guys both need a few weeks of IC before you go back to MC.
> 
> Are you sure he's actually lying? Or is he seeing things you don't want to see?
> 
> FWIW, my wife told me I was lying about a few things, too. Turns out I wasn't -- I just saw the facts differently. But it took being presented with the facts to get her to see that.


Yes he was lying. I'm not sure it's intentional or not but he made several obviously false statements. He said I purposefully refuse to say hi to any girl who says hi to me, just so I won't make any friends and will have to rely on him as my only friend. I'm very open to making new friends and greeting strangers. Just weeks before I met some nice women at the mall playground and I asked for their numbers and then called them the next day. So why would I have a problem returning a greeting to someone? In fact, I've actually complained about the opposite to my husband, that some women don't return my greetings and seem unwilling to pick up a new friend. 

My husband is very manipulative, as a reflex. He was just saying things to support a certain argument that he wanted to make. Not to mention he often says things that are directly opposite of the truth. It seems like a strategy of his, although I don't understand it since I never feel like doing that to him. The effect is that I become very upset and defensive so I suppose that is his goal.


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## Marduk

Cecezakat said:


> Yes he was lying. I'm not sure it's intentional or not but he made several obviously false statements. He said I purposefully refuse to say hi to any girl who says hi to me, just so I won't make any friends and will have to rely on him as my only friend. I'm very open to making new friends and greeting strangers. Just weeks before I met some nice women at the mall playground and I asked for their numbers and then called them the next day. So why would I have a problem returning a greeting to someone? In fact, I've actually complained about the opposite to my husband, that some women don't return my greetings and seem unwilling to pick up a new friend.
> 
> My husband is very manipulative, as a reflex. He was just saying things to support a certain argument that he wanted to make. Not to mention he often says things that are directly opposite of the truth. It seems like a strategy of his, although I don't understand it since I never feel like doing that to him. The effect is that I become very upset and defensive so I suppose that is his goal.


OK. Deep breath.

Everything I'm about to say is going to come from a very specific angle: not assuming his intention, clarifying it.

Ask him why he says this about you. 

It could be as you say. Or it could be he thinks this for various reasons. Or it could be that his view of reality is quite different than yours.

Let me flip this around: why would you marry (or stay married to) someone who constantly lies to you?


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## Cecezakat

marduk said:


> OK. Deep breath.
> 
> Everything I'm about to say is going to come from a very specific angle: not assuming his intention, clarifying it.
> 
> Ask him why he says this about you.
> 
> It could be as you say. Or it could be he thinks this for various reasons. Or it could be that his view of reality is quite different than yours.
> 
> Let me flip this around: why would you marry (or stay married to) someone who constantly lies to you?


I have asked him before. This isn't a new tactic, although the specific thing he said was new. It's just mentally exhausting, he runs me around in circles with twisted logic trying to "explain". One time he finally just admitted he was trying to manipulate me. I asked him why didn't you just say that from the start and he said because it sounds really bad to admit you manipulated someone. :|

I've done a lot of work to gain back my sense of perception and to be confident in how I perceive reality. He really tries to make me doubt my own perceptions and to accept his version of reality. 

It's taken me a long time to sort out his lies. He's quite good at it. He is very intelligent and also has a different native language than me. I blamed a lot on miscommunications and misunderstandings but over time I realized that wasn't the real issue. 

I don't want to be with someone who lies. I thought I had picked an honest, forthright person. I really hate people who resort to lies, big or small "white" lies. I know for a fact me and my son would be living very happy and in peace alone, in theory. But in reality, I'm beginning to worry if I leave that this darker side of him will become the permanent man I have to deal with, making my life a living hell for not being with him. He is very good at convincing people of his view and could easily turn everything against me.

I will try IC and changing my behavior. I want to know if this darker side of him represents his true callous personality or is just a horrible habit he resorts to for releasing his anger. I will take the therapists advice and validate his feelings while expressing mine. How he responds to that will give me a lot of answers about him. Meanwhile I am working on my exit strategy to be ready in case.


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## Marduk

What I would recommend is that the only way you move forward trying to fix the relationship is if he agrees to stop lying. And lives up to that. 

You can't have lies in a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cecezakat

marduk said:


> What I would recommend is that the only way you move forward trying to fix the relationship is if he agrees to stop lying. And lives up to that.
> 
> You can't have lies in a marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then my efforts are probably futile. I've told him how much I don't like lies, even the small ones. He talks in circles around me. He doesn't agree he has ever lied, even though he has. You can't get someone to stop doing something they deny doing. That's his strategy, never admit to any wrongdoing and then try to convince me that I'm crazy and incapable of perceiving reality correctly...ever.


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## Marduk

What did the MC say about it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty

Cecezakat said:


> Thank you. I've already begun detaching from him because I've started to realize the problems HE has instead of me always feeling guilty and the one at fault. Recognizing what he does wrong in our marriage gave me the confidence to stand up for myself in ways I hadn't before.
> 
> Do you have any materials to recommend on how to further detach yourself from your spouse while working on your own behavior?


 You can view the 180 rules and follow the ones that apply to you.

There is also neglect of the relationship while you focus on yourself. What I mean is create a happy, fulfilling life outside the relationship. It will hurt, the need to reinforce the bond will be strong. When your husband feels you pulling away, he has an instinctual need to pull you back and offers some incentives such as caring and attention. Then when he has you reconnected, he returns to old behavior. People often get stuck in a cycle and the positive changes they see offer them hope, but it tends to be just a cycle they are stuck in.

You want to see changes for a prolong period of time. Six months to a year for small to moderate change.

As for your own issues. It is small steps and goals to accomplish.

When he bombards you, walk away. Nothing will be accomplished during high levels of emotions. Learn about being mindful. Keep your thoughts in the here and now. Breathing exercises help regulate emotions such as anger. there is a change in how the body operates when one feels angry. By calming down the heart rate, blood pressure, it allows your use of judgement. You will still be angry, but you are more capable of thinking things out rationally.

Is your life mostly prioritize around his career? Can you actually be happy and okay with it? What about your own personal goals, do you always forgo your own goals over his? At the end of the day, and later on in life, would you be okay with the constant moves just for him?

By hfocusing primarily on his career, are you making yourself less independent?

So, a good place to start is asking yourself questions.


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## Cecezakat

marduk said:


> What did the MC say about it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She said if he is then the truth will come out because it always does. She was focusing on getting us to quietly listen to the other and then repeat it back. He's very intelligent and very convincing. I'm not sure how good counselors are, if they can still pick up on it.


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## Cecezakat

Mr.Fisty said:


> You can view the 180 rules and follow the ones that apply to you.
> 
> There is also neglect of the relationship while you focus on yourself. What I mean is create a happy, fulfilling life outside the relationship. It will hurt, the need to reinforce the bond will be strong. When your husband feels you pulling away, he has an instinctual need to pull you back and offers some incentives such as caring and attention. Then when he has you reconnected, he returns to old behavior. People often get stuck in a cycle and the positive changes they see offer them hope, but it tends to be just a cycle they are stuck in.
> 
> You want to see changes for a prolong period of time. Six months to a year for small to moderate change.
> 
> As for your own issues. It is small steps and goals to accomplish.
> 
> When he bombards you, walk away. Nothing will be accomplished during high levels of emotions. Learn about being mindful. Keep your thoughts in the here and now. Breathing exercises help regulate emotions such as anger. there is a change in how the body operates when one feels angry. By calming down the heart rate, blood pressure, it allows your use of judgement. You will still be angry, but you are more capable of thinking things out rationally.
> 
> Is your life mostly prioritize around his career? Can you actually be happy and okay with it? What about your own personal goals, do you always forgo your own goals over his? At the end of the day, and later on in life, would you be okay with the constant moves just for him?
> 
> By hfocusing primarily on his career, are you making yourself less independent?
> 
> So, a good place to start is asking yourself questions.


I will look up the 180. Anytime I try to pull away he becomes extremely charming. I didn't respond to his messages or phone calls all day while he was at work and he came home all smiles and laughing "so you did have your phone with you. Honey you were ignoring me, that's really bad" then he cuddled with me. I told him he said yesterday that he just wants to have his space and his independent life (to our MC) and I said I'm not in the way of your space. Have it. He said he can take his space sitting next to me.

Anytime I tried to leave before, when I wasn't pregnant, he would block the doorways and hug me and say he's sorry like how a little boy would say. My mistake is that I always let it work. I have a hard time holding grudges and anger against someone, especially if they are smiling and playing. Hence his total lack of motivation to take my concerns seriously and commit to real change. 

I really believe IC can help me with not reacting to him the way he wants and remaining calm when he is picking a fight. 

I'm fine with prioritizing around his career. I'm focused on taking care of my son and being a stay at home mom. When they are both in school I will get a job so I'm not bored. I'm starting a post bacc program in a few months so I can work towards a specific career. He encourages it and says he would accommodate my job. We'll see.


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## Mr.Fisty

Cecezakat said:


> I will look up the 180. Anytime I try to pull away he becomes extremely charming. I didn't respond to his messages or phone calls all day while he was at work and he came home all smiles and laughing "so you did have your phone with you. Honey you were ignoring me, that's really bad" then he cuddled with me. I told him he said yesterday that he just wants to have his space and his independent life (to our MC) and I said I'm not in the way of your space. Have it. He said he can take his space sitting next to me.
> 
> Anytime I tried to leave before, when I wasn't pregnant, he would block the doorways and hug me and say he's sorry like how a little boy would say. My mistake is that I always let it work. I have a hard time holding grudges and anger against someone, especially if they are smiling and playing. Hence his total lack of motivation to take my concerns seriously and commit to real change.
> 
> I really believe IC can help me with not reacting to him the way he wants and remaining calm when he is picking a fight.
> 
> I'm fine with prioritizing around his career. I'm focused on taking care of my son and being a stay at home mom. When they are both in school I will get a job so I'm not bored. I'm starting a post bacc program in a few months so I can work towards a specific career. He encourages it and says he would accommodate my job. We'll see.



It would be a good idea to keep reminding yourself about the way he manipulates you. Words are easy and if he really wants you to have marriage satisfaction, he will have to back that up with action.

I am afraid he will stay in denial until a catastrophic event occurs like divorce papers.

Also, falling for his charms reinforces that he can be charming and you will let your guard down only to fall back into the cycle.

In a way, you help strengthen that behavior. So, if you want to help him, do not let him hide behind his own illusions. He needs to face consequences for his actions. Falling for his charms has not help him grow.

You have not yet left him, so why should he put in any effort. Being charming requires less effort and that is what you have accepted so far, minimal effort.

You also show a pattern of behavior to him and so he will think all it will take to soothe you is be charming. Your past history is an indication of that. So, work on personal boundaries as well.


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## NoChoice

OP,
I am not so sure his actions are "like a little boy". Granted I do not have a mountain of information from which to draw an opinion but I see him as very weak and insecure. He says he wants his own space but yet wants to know your whereabouts and motives for wearing makeup when going out? This sounds more like someone who is very unsure of himself and his relationship. His manipulation may be nothing more than his reaction to the intense fear he really feels at the thought of losing you.

He is somewhat confident now as he knows you are "trapped", for lack of a better word, being pregnant and having to miss work. I truly believe that he could benefit from IC if he finds a good one and they can expose his insecurities and fears. You mentioned how good it felt not to engage when you were at the therapy session. Perhaps carry this over into your daily life. When he tries to engage you fight the urge to defend yourself and let him rant. Some, if not most, of his control is based on your engaging him, if you cease to, he loses much of his "power" to coerce you and the fights. I know it is difficult but when you engage him you play right into his manipulative plan. Do not think of not engaging him as not defending yourself because what defense do you need in the face of lies? Lies are indefensible as they can change to meet the situation. Let him drone on and only present back to him with calm honesty.

Perhaps, as you do this and as he loses what he feels is is power, you will then be able to speak with him from a position of more authority rather than an already compromised position of trying to defend lies. Just a thought. I wish you good fortune in your efforts.


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## sixbravebulls

It sounds to me like both of you have issues listening.


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## Cecezakat

Mr.Fisty said:


> It would be a good idea to keep reminding yourself about the way he manipulates you. Words are easy and if he really wants you to have marriage satisfaction, he will have to back that up with action.
> 
> I am afraid he will stay in denial until a catastrophic event occurs like divorce papers.
> 
> Also, falling for his charms reinforces that he can be charming and you will let your guard down only to fall back into the cycle.
> 
> In a way, you help strengthen that behavior. So, if you want to help him, do not let him hide behind his own illusions. He needs to face consequences for his actions. Falling for his charms has not help him grow.
> 
> You have not yet left him, so why should he put in any effort. Being charming requires less effort and that is what you have accepted so far, minimal effort.
> 
> You also show a pattern of behavior to him and so he will think all it will take to soothe you is be charming. Your past history is an indication of that. So, work on personal boundaries as well.


I agree with everything. I realize I have accepted a low standard of effort from him. I want to work on these issues in IC. I hope that could cause a change but it does feel like only a real separation would motivate him.


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## Cecezakat

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> I am not so sure his actions are "like a little boy". Granted I do not have a mountain of information from which to draw an opinion but I see him as very weak and insecure. He says he wants his own space but yet wants to know your whereabouts and motives for wearing makeup when going out? This sounds more like someone who is very unsure of himself and his relationship. His manipulation may be nothing more than his reaction to the intense fear he really feels at the thought of losing you.
> 
> He is somewhat confident now as he knows you are "trapped", for lack of a better word, being pregnant and having to miss work. I truly believe that he could benefit from IC if he finds a good one and they can expose his insecurities and fears. You mentioned how good it felt not to engage when you were at the therapy session. Perhaps carry this over into your daily life. When he tries to engage you fight the urge to defend yourself and let him rant. Some, if not most, of his control is based on your engaging him, if you cease to, he loses much of his "power" to coerce you and the fights. I know it is difficult but when you engage him you play right into his manipulative plan. Do not think of not engaging him as not defending yourself because what defense do you need in the face of lies? Lies are indefensible as they can change to meet the situation. Let him drone on and only present back to him with calm honesty.
> 
> Perhaps, as you do this and as he loses what he feels is is power, you will then be able to speak with him from a position of more authority rather than an already compromised position of trying to defend lies. Just a thought. I wish you good fortune in your efforts.


I think you are right. Especially at the beginning of our relationship he used to express very strong fear of losing me. He called me non stop until I answered my phone and when he thought it was over for some reason, he says he tried to kill himself. He isn't that dramatic anymore, in fact he had a time where he decided he is too weak and emotional and decided to "toughen up". 

He still makes comments that one day I might realize I settled for him and I will leave to find a better man. Usually he frames that in terms of looks, because he believes he is ugly and I'm super beautiful. I think our level of attractiveness is equal to each other but he is incredibly insecure about it and questions why I am even attracted to him. 

I didn't really think about it, but I think you are right about his manipulation being a reaction to his fear. Looking back I see that he used manipulation from the start to keep me, because he was so sure he wasn't good enough and I would leave. I also haven't helped in that regard. I have threatened to leave so much that it's beyond meaningless. For me, it was just because I was feeling intense emotions I didn't know how to handle, and saying I was going to leave felt like an escape from those feelings. But his insecurity about me leaving has been present from day one. 

"Lies are indefensible as they can change to meet the situation." Wow, well said. When I engage him and try to defend myself he does keep changing it on me. It mentally and emotionally exhausts me. I definitely want to stop engaging him. 

Thanks for your input. It's much appreciated.


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## Cecezakat

sixbravebulls said:


> It sounds to me like both of you have issues listening.


Definitely. The MC said we are both so desperate to be heard that we refuse to listen to each other.


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