# Foolish/Naive to give WS benefit of the doubt after 1.5 years?



## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

I'm new on this forum. 

My backstory: H and I have been married 13 years, known eachother for 20. We have a young son. H is a busy lawyer. I work but am not a lawyer. 1.5 years ago, H met a single female lawyer at court, she flirted with him, he was receptive to her flirting, they had email contact, met for lunch. I noticed the emails on his phone and confronted him. He admitted it had gotten flirtatious and agreed to cease contact. I believed him. One month later I listened to a voicemail on his phone, from this woman, saying she couldn't "meet up" that day. I went ballistic, confronted him, he said they did continue some phone conversations, saw eachother once at court, and the "meet up" was ostensibly for professional reasons. However, he admitted that he and the OW had discussed their mutual attraction for eachother. He agreed to call her and cease all contact. Presumably this had been an EA of sorts, although he doesn't even want to call it that -- just mutual attraction, flirting, that represents a form of betrayal.

I displayed typical BS behavior: desperate, needy, clingy-- which pushed H away. He exhibited fence-sitting behavior, justified his actions by saying we weren't intimate enough (although he rarely approached me for sex either-- both busy with work and child rearing. I never thought we weren't close though). During this desperate period (for me at least) we were more intimate, but at one point he coldly told me he wasn't sure he even wanted to be married anymore. Within three weeks he decided he'd clear his head by visiting a married guy friend and the friend's wife out of state for a couple of days (his whereabouts in his friend's house was confirmed for me, I'm not being naive about that), and when he came back he said he decided he wanted to be with me and put all this behind us. (also, I had been in IC a few times because of this, but he told me he doesn't believe in MC).

I was relieved when he returned and "chose me", and I tried to resume life as normal, athough I remained suspicious. I have had access to his email and phone at all times (although not his work phone) and it seemed like no contact at all with OW. When he went to court occasionally I would ask if he saw here there. Usually not but if he did see her, from a distance even, he would tell me. Truly seemed like he wanted to put all this behind him. He remained loving and complimentary of me. Intimacy declined again, however. He works till quite late every night because of his law practice.

Fast forward to now, 1.5 years later. Last week I figured out what "spotlight search" on a Mac product was. I ran it on the OW's name on the iPad. From about a month ago, two deleted emails came up (actually email notifications of voicemails), as his new voicemail service at work automatically forwards to his email any missed call. Her name and cell phone number were on the notifications. I went ballistic an confronted him about what kind of contact he has had with OW. He insisted none. He said he saw those email notices of voicemails, freaked out, listened to the voicemails, and they were just hang up calls. He said he was relieved, and then just deleted the email notifications. 

I asked him why I should believe him when he had lied before to me. He said because he's not lying now, would not jeopardize our lives together, etc. 

So my question is this: am I fool to believe him? should I just let this go?


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## Bamzor (Aug 15, 2012)

Obviously you still don't trust him. Really, why should you. To think you just happen to catch the only 2 times she tried to contact him is slim. So, you are not a fool. 
However, being clingy, needy, desperate drives a huge wedge in any relationship. You need to learn to control your emotions. Instead of going "Ballistic" you need to be acting as though everything is hunky dory. Why...because you just drove their relationship totally underground...."Yea, my crazy wife saw were you called.....lets not communicate this way any more.." 
There are so many posts on here if you suspect you spouse is cheating. Your ws seems to have taken his underground and those are tough cookies to break. You need to do the 180 and let your husband know you are self supported. He probably views you as that clingy woman...and that's not sexy. 
You want to know...look at cellphone records... if it is a company cellphone...just setup a voice recorder in his car...just don't get caught.


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## Just Joe (May 26, 2014)

Bamzor said:


> To think you just happen to catch the only 2 times she tried to contact him is slim.


The odds of them having sex and continuing the affair are astronomical. So much so that I never believe that there was no sex or that contact ended immediately unless proven otherwise. Just about no one just stops cold turkey. Adults who are attracted to each other and secretly meeting up almost never "just" talk.

Why would she call and just hang up? And you caught the only two times?

You know, it's possible he's telling the truth, but ... let's get real here. Where there is smoke, there usually is fire.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Just Joe said:


> The odds of them having sex and continuing the affair are astronomical. So much so that I never believe that there was no sex or that contact ended immediately unless proven otherwise. Just about no one just stops cold turkey. Adults who are attracted to each other and secretly meeting up almost never "just" talk.
> 
> Why would she call and just hang up? And you caught the only two times?
> 
> You know, it's possible he's telling the truth, but ... let's get real here. Where there is smoke, there usually is fire.



Yes, I think your husband is cheating on you and never stopped.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Rugs said:


> Yes, I think your husband is cheating on you and never stopped.


I agree with this 100%. You're being totally played. If his lover is also married I'd make it a point to inform her husband.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

TO answer your question, yes you are a fool to believe him, but DON'T confront him about it. You need to start gathering information about what he's really doing. Others here can tell you how to do that better than I.

This smells like an ongoing affair that may have been on-again off-again, but you have every right to be suspicious. 

You need to be careful from now on. Don't let him think that you're suspicious and then start doing the digging.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

In your 1st post, you admitted to being weak, about what was done by your H----------

IMHO---you MUST take a strong stand to let the cheater know you will never tolerate what was done AGAIN---and to let the cheater know they are not going to get away with the cheating this time

You need to set some boundaries, with ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES----NOT WORDS, BUT ACTIONS---to let your H know, that you will never allow a NEXT TIME TO HAPPEN, with this woman, or any other

Also never be afraid---to look into or check on anything your H says or does with ANYBODY---there IS NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY, for a married couple---with the taking of vows, the 2 of you became one---and are to be completely open to each other in all ways, shape and form----the other reason you need to check on anything you wish---is that you are protecting your mge, and family, and you are entitiled to do whatever is necessary to enable THAT PROTECTION


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

totalfive21 said:


> I'm new on this forum.
> 
> My backstory: H and I have been married 13 years, known eachother for 20. We have a young son. H is a busy lawyer. I work but am not a lawyer. 1.5 years ago, H met a single female lawyer at court, she flirted with him, he was receptive to her flirting, they had email contact, met for lunch. I noticed the emails on his phone and confronted him. He admitted it had gotten flirtatious and agreed to cease contact. I believed him. One month later I listened to a voicemail on his phone, from this woman, saying she couldn't "meet up" that day. I went ballistic, confronted him, he said they did continue some phone conversations, saw eachother once at court, and the "meet up" was ostensibly for professional reasons. However, he admitted that he and the OW had discussed their mutual attraction for eachother. He agreed to call her and cease all contact. Presumably this had been an EA of sorts, although he doesn't even want to call it that -- just mutual attraction, flirting, that represents a form of betrayal.
> 
> ...


these are the worst my dear . Sorry you're here but this is I'm afraid probably going to explode. Find the stories on here that are yours and sadly you will know where you are or will be.

You've rugswept it all, for love for fear of losing the man you thought could not treat you like sh!t on his shoe but sadly cheats have this behavior embedded . You are the wounded animal and once they see you as weak and vulnerable they will just keep grinding you down whilst they feast on the cake. 
You complain they will somehow incredibly put you at fault "I had to" " you made me do it" etc etc ad nauseum 

I suspect strongly they've never stopped. Unfortunately he seems a smart guy and has taken it away from you and now you will have to be up absolutely on your detective game. Check out all threads involving 'weightlifter' on here and you will end up armed with all manner of methods to catch the cheating scumbag

Go back over all the times over the period when he's needed to be out of town worked late etc etc There will be a pattern and one of course that ties her in completely. Of course in their work environment when it all domes to light I'm sure they'd get exploded to hell and back so that option will also rear it's head at a later date. YOu could completely destroy their ;lives in that respect. Is she connected to a significant other. 
Sadly the tip of the ice berg I'm afraid - so much more to come 

I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it 

All the very best trying to get it together for what will become sadly some of your darkest days


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Total? Still here?


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

I am still here, thanks Rugs. And thanks to all for the replies. Just processing what to do. I downloaded a software that scans the iPhone and can recover deleted phone log. Just figuring out a good time to try this. 

Again, I appreciate the support so far.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

totalfive21-what do you want to do?
Do you want to know and divorce, or know and reconcile?


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

I think if I find out that he has still had contact, my gut reaction would be divorce. I thought we had reconciled 1.5 years ago, from an event that I considered a betrayal. Many times in the interim period I have inquired if he has heard from her. So if he has been lying this whole time, I don't think I can reconcile.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Can you put a VAR in his car?


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

I am considering the VAR for his car, but if it's to pick up phone conversations while he's driving, then I would get the evidence I need from a scan/recovery of the deleted phone log on his iPhone (or at least the fact that he had contact with her). If the VAR is to pick up the two of them in the car together, if that has happened it seems like it would be rare, so I'd have a LOT of back and forth listening to the recordings. 

How do I know that time with her would be rare? I have access to his work email via the iPad, so even if he's not communicating with the OW this way, I can see what he is occupied with. I can tell when an email is sent from out of office (I know there are ways to disguise this -- but I reach him on his work landline periodically to verify he's physically there), and believe me he is at his office nearly 12 hours per day, usually corresponding with clients and other lawyers via email, attaching drafts, etc.

By the way, update on the phone scan software: Just this morning when he was in the shower I attempted to scan his iPhone. The scan would have taken another several minutes but I quickly stopped it when I heard the shower turn off. I checked the call history that it had recovered (only three weeks back), and nothing from or to the OW. In fact it didn't look like anything that wasn't already visible on the phone itself. Will have to try again, perhaps in the middle of the night, to get the full call history.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The chances that this was not physical are very small.
He basically admitted that it was physical to you when he said this happened becuase you two were not intimate enough.

You should not confront a random phone call, since it can be lied away and you then give up your source.

My feeling is that he did "end" his affair, did choose to come back to you, but since the truth never came out the two of you are in an arm's length limbo marriage. You never did the "heavy lifiting" of him fully admitting it, him fully getting remorseful, you two fully affair proofing your marriage. Thus, you are still in spying mode. And yes, without an affair proofed marriage, there is still high risk of it happening again.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Hicks, it's true that I don't think enough heavy lifting was done. Several times he told me that if there was one thing he could change it was that he hurt me like that, so that's good. However, we did not talk enough about it. When I tell him that I think we did not discuss it enough, he tells me that he thinks dwelling on it is not healthy, although he is willing to talk about how to help me feel more secure in the marriage, etc.

I totally get the 180 philosophy and how empowering it is. I'm an educated woman with an important job and also primary care giver to our lovely son. I take great pride in these aspects of my life and don't need to rely on H for happiness. That said, as Hicks and other posters have said/implied, the rugsweeping over this incident hasn't been a good thing.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Looks like an affair that has gone underground. Follow the good advice that you've been given, and further the investigation.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Update on phone scan: I ran a complete one just now. From the deleted call and text history, there is nothing to or from OW. We got these phones in January so it only goes back till then. Like I mentioned previously though, I have real-time access to his work email, if only for the benefit to know what he is busy working on, and I can't see how he could be meeting up with any OW.

I'm just wary of any contact -- like if he has a separate email account for purposes of flirting with her, or calls placed from his work that I can't monitor. I'm sure he got a high from that attention and he comes from a dysfunctional family where his dad cheated, etc. The OW is 41 and never married and obviously not above hitting on a married man. 

Next I may try visiting his office one day and looking for any login info to another email account.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Do you feel that he is genuinely affectionate towards you? How is your sex life now?


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

I do feel that he is affectionate, but so overworked that he is exhausted most days, plus stressed out by the nature of his work. Intimacy is not that frequent. I have raised this to him as a major red flag to me, given how he said our lack of intimacy was a factor that had made him vulnerable to the OW's flirtation 1.5 years ago. He understands my concern. He has also had problems in that department, periodic ED issues going back to when we were in our early 20s. So "quickies" are hard and we (mostly he) isn't available enough for long periods alone with me. I'd say we are intimate twice a month, max.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Update on phone scan: I ran a complete one just now. From the deleted call and text history, *there is nothing to or from OW*. We got these phones in January so it only goes back till then. Like I mentioned previously though, I have real-time access to his work email, if only for the benefit to know what he is busy working on, and I can't see how he could be meeting up with any OW.
> 
> I'm just wary of any contact -- *like if he has a separate email account for purposes of flirting with her, or calls placed from his work that I can't monitor.* I'm sure he got a high from that attention and he comes from a dysfunctional family where his dad cheated, etc. The OW is 41 and never married and obviously not above hitting on a married man.
> 
> Next I may try visiting his office one day and looking for any login info to another email account.



As a man, email flirting and phone calls would not be enough. I just could not flirt with a woman for 6 months without going further; that is torture.

If I was your husband and the most I could possibly be doing was flirting for 6 months in email and telephone you would have nothing to worry about. If all a woman wants to do is flirt talk; well no thank you, I would rather masturbate.

However, as I am not your husband and your husband has ED and only has sex with you 2 times a month; well that is a whole other issue. I know that men are different but two times a month has never been enough for me and I am over 60 years old.

*At the moment you do not have enough solid evidence to conclude that he is having an affair. IMO*


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

I guess I am just as wary of any kind of ongoing emotional connection or affair. The unrequited-ness of it all being appealing to him. But you're right, I don't have any solid evidence.


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## Baablacksheep (Aug 29, 2013)

He could have a burner phone which you can't see at all. That's why you use a VAR, to catch that.


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## Kim C (Jun 9, 2014)

What's the software you used to pull deleted messages off of his iPhone? (Going thru my own little flirt gone bad hell now.)

Considering you found nothing with the software, I would guess he's telling the truth. I would keep your eyes open but don't make yourself crazy. Enjoy life and your little one they grow so fast if your H is cheating you will find out. Honestly the fact that you caught the 2 calls - that's how it always happens .... Murphy's law. Good luck! I know it's not easy.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Kim, It was Wondershare Dr. Fone. Thanks to you and everyone else for your supporting words.


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