# I love my wife, but twice will destroy us.



## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

A friend pointed me to this site. I've been looking, reading and trying to figure out where I am in all this. I'd like to say "Be gentle with me." But I know that isn't how this works from what I've read so far. Here's the story:

Married 10 years. We got married fast. Dated for 3 months, moved in together and after 3 months of that got married. There were many people who whispered behind our backs that we were going to fast. Not in our heads though. My parents were fine after a few months, her parents weren't really happy at all.

The first 5 years were like 'honeymoon' years. From personal experience and from what I've seen of others, this is typical of a new couple, boyfriend/girlfriend. However, my wife and I had it for 5 years. We almost never argued because it seemed like everything we did, we did it for each other or we were on the same page as what to do next. There was room for differing opinions and we had those, but we talked more than argued. When she went out, she would ask me if I would come with her and her friends. And there were times when I wanted her out with me when I was somewhere and would tell her that if she wasn't busy to come on by. Looking back, it was almost like we were very needy of each other but we both liked it. We had our private time. There are certain hobbies I have that she has zero interest in and same with some of her hobbies. Sex was always great, twice a week was what we eventually 'settled' into and that was perfect.

We both have good jobs and that's important because the way the economy is going you never know when things might go wrong. I work for myself and I consider my job to be very secure. She works for a large company and is great at her job. In all honesty, if she did lose her job, she could work for me and we'd still be making more than enough to live a good life. But she likes what she does.

Then, 5 years in, the problems began. It was my in-laws. They started demanding more attention of my wife. We lived close to them and they put a lot on her plate as far as what they would consider her responsibilities in taking care of them. My brother-in-law took off years ago, I never even met him. Apparently he was fed up with the burden of his parents and took off to live a life of his own. We have no idea where he is or what he's doing or even if he's alive. My in-laws don't care.

Once they started pushing her more and more, she would start becoming more and more irritated at home. At first, trying to be supportive of the situation, I would try to make sure that people on all sides were happy. My in-laws were never happy. My family lives far far away from us and I didn't want to get them involved. My wife felt as though it was her responsibility alone to make sure her parents could retire and be taken care of. It's very easy for me to say that it was THIS point where the rift started and that I place a lot of blame on my in-laws and now my wife for what was to come...but I can't say for sure.

Over the next 5 years we would fight about stuff we never fought about before. Money being a big one. She was very much about making sure nobody could take her job from her. She received achievement awards at work and bonuses. I had no problem with her working hard but I wanted her to work hard on getting our relationship back to something similar to what it use to be. Happy. When there was an argument with her parents, it would make it's way to our place. I don't mind arguing, but there has to be a reason to the argument.

Then I decided that this was just a part of being married, the bumps in the road. I thought that things would normalize over time. I played down any real troubles we had and made sure they were taken care of properly. I made sure my wife knew that what ever burden she felt she had on her shoulders that I was there to help carry that burden. We had some ups and some downs. It seemed the honeymoon was over, but I was very much looking for a way to make a comeback. I was too late...

January 2011 I start to notice the signs of an EA. I didn't know what an EA was at the time, only after I came here. She was constantly texting someone. She would say it was work related. Then I caught a glimpse of one of her incoming messages and it was from a mutual acquaintance of ours. We weren't friends but we knew him. The message was very innocent but made me feel uncomfortable. It was about how work was, how she was feeling, if she was feeling any better and her responses were the same asking about him. This person was NOT a friend and NOT someone we talked about. We knew him only through other people.

I didn't confront her with this. In the past when a friend, man or woman, had come to ask advice about their boyfriend or girlfriend being friendly with the opposite sex I always said that that's all it was, being friendly. I told myself to take my own advice, but to keep a closer eye on things. When I asked her if she was getting more messages from work she said yes, all from work. That's the first time I know that she's ever lied to me. That's why I was keeping a closer eye on things. I thought if I told her I saw her text message that she would use the 'privacy' card. Not that we ever had anything to hide before.

For about a week I was sick, I didn't know why at the time. I tried to get a little TLC from my wife but she wasn't having it. Week 2 came around and I couldn't handle it anymore and I decided to check her emails and messages while she was taking a bath. I saw that the emails, while not sexual in any way, that there was far more to this relationship. They were bonding over each others problems. And I was apparently one of them for her. It didn't go into detail as to how I was problem, but it was clear I was. I was not understanding of her etc. So during week 2, I did what you're apparently NOT suppose to do. I asked her why she was being so distant, I was being pathetic really. I was crying and wanted things to be like they were. I asked her if there was anything wrong with me, if I made her upset or did anything that made her fall out of love with me. Pathetic.

Her response was that I had nothing to worry about. However, there wasn't a whole lot of emotion when she said this. It was like putting a band-aid on deep gash. BUT for some reason it made me OK for THAT night. I still hadn't asked about the messages and still felt like I had invaded her privacy.

I'm not sure there's a word for it but I was left feeling like I had no direction in my marriage. I had my work go into auto-pilot so I could deal with these feelings but I had no idea how to get them out or deal with them. My wife says we were fine but I didn't think we are, and would soon come to find out those feelings were true.

Dday came and it came in the most, I can't even think of a word for it, it was insane. We had a dinner party at a friends house and the OM was there. Being acquaintances of mutual friends. I thought for a few minutes that if they started to act all friendly in front of me, then maybe this is just a guy friend she's unleashing onto, not wanting to hurt me. I would still feel bad that she was talking bad about me, but better knowing that she's kind of not hiding that she knew him would make me feel less insecure. But they pretended as though they barely knew each other. What do I do? I start to DRINK! 

At some point during the party I notice that they are not in the same room as us. I wonder off and step outside. I can't really explain it in words, but the way the outside of the house was designed, the way it all worked, they thought they were in a place where they could get it on and not get caught. Half naked, outside, and I just stand there and watch with a glass of whiskey in my hand. You could tell by the way they prepping that they were going for a 'quicky' or something. But before pants could fall or other parts be exposed, I yelled WTF.

I don't know what the typical reaction would be for anyone else but here's what I saw. I saw my wife and thought to myself "I'll deal with you later." The OM quickly wondered back inside quickly and I followed. I think he felt safe in the presence of other people. WRONG! I'm not a violent man, actually, I was not a violent man up until that day. I absolutely thought I was going to kill him. Before actually getting my hands on him he said "I know how it all looks, you have every right to be angry and I understand it if you want to hit me." And with that, I proceeded to beat the crap out of him. Friends weren't sure what was going on, if this was a joke or something, but once blood started coming out and the cracking of bones hit the air, the men in the room tried to break us apart. I had tunnel vision. I told the other guys, my friends, that if they prevented me from beating this guy, I would beat them until I could continue on the OM. The OM at this point looks like he's barely conscious but I thought he was just acting so that it would stop. And as if on cue, my wife walks in, hair down and not dressed quite right, everyone knows. All I hear from my friends was "Just don't kill him." And I continued. My wife tried to get between us and when she did, the beatings stopped because as much as I wanted to hit her, I wasn't about to hit a woman.

I got pulled off one last time. I don't know if I actually knocked him out or if he was just playing dead, but I didn't care. A friend of mine drove us back home. My wife was scared that I killed the guy or that something bad had happened, before I could say anything the driver chimed in and said that he'll be fine, you guys need to figure this out on your own. Don't worry about the guy or the dinner.

Physically, I still need to beat the guy. My hands were cut open from hitting him and I somehow got this long deep gash on my forearm. I don't know how. My blood pressure was going through the roof, I wanted to ask her so many questions but the ride home would be about 30 minutes and I didn't want anything coming out in front of the driver/friend. I was embarrassed at the same time because this happened in front of friends. People I know now know I can't keep my wife. Embarrassing. On the way home, I think either my blood pressure went up way too high or dropped way too low but I was in and out of it to the point my friend suggested I go to the hospital. I said NO ****ing way. Take me home. I still don't know what happened to me, but I didn't want to wait in order to ask questions. 

Once at home 2 things started to race through my mind. First, how could she do this and the questions I would be asking. Second, am I going to jail tonight? I actually started to pack a bag to go to jail. I don't know if they let you bring your own stuff with you, but I started. While she was on the bed, also half drunk I started asking away. I told her I knew about the texting and that I wasn't really the husband she wanted. She made excuses as to why she said those things. I think she was trying to figure her way out of this. She's now half awake, half asleep, she doesn't know what to say or do and she starts to cry. I mimic a baby cry to show how much I DIDN'T care for her tears. I was just angry.

The doorbell rings and I say to my wife that I'm probably off to jail. I don't think she even heard me or the doorbell. But it wasn't the cops. It was a mutual friend and the OM, still bleeding. Apparently, his friend was so pissed at the situation that he forced him to come over and apologize, not the best thing to do IMO. I would later find out that this friend had helped the OM out of some other serious situations and that this situation would jeapordize other stuff that I didn't really give a **** about. BUT as soon as I saw him I dropped my stuff and was ready to continue the beating. His friend stepped between us. I didn't have it in me anymore to take on anyone else. He said that he brought him here to apologize and fess up. I take them outside my place and start talking about how it happened, why it is they thought they would get away with it, if it happened before. A lot of the information that he was giving out sounded like he was protecting himself but he didn't erase any of the text messages. He had no reason or nobody around to hide them from. I looked at them all, read a couple out loud. The first time they started talking was about 6 months earlier. They would run into each other on the bus to work. Which turned into texting.

The OM said that on those rides she would say that she had expressed wanting to leave and that we were on the verge of divorce. Nothing was there to prove that, it was just his word. There was nothing in the emails that would suggested divorce or leaving, but they were not nice messages. This all lasted about an hour and at the end the OM friend said no cops would be involved but to keep things under the radar. At the time it seemed like a good idea, me not going to jail and keeping this embarrassing event a secret. Although others at the dinner might have spoken of it. I haven't seen any of them since. I just can't face them.

I was up all night, trying to clean my hands. I got a bottle of whiskey and drank some more. When she woke up and first looked at me, she seemed remorseful and went into tears again. I had calmed down. It was question time for her but this time with details, sparing none.

She said that the last few years she felt that there was a distance between us and that she felt broken. She couldn't fully explain what that meant but she said that she never intended to have a PA with the man. I don't think she knew what an EA was, I didn't, so I asked about the back and forth. She says she never talked divorce or separation or leaving me. She said she had no excuse for what she was about to do that night. She doesn't know why it had to be there at that dinner or how she would get away with it. She couldn't offer up any answers as to why this was happening and why she felt this way. Her story and the OM story about the verbal back and forth differed. She offered a sit down with him to get the truth out. I told her there was no way she was ever seeing that man again unless divorce papers were in hand and ready to sign. When I pried for more details, like the sexual attraction she had for him when there was none for me, was she going to continue doing this, how many times has she done this before...all those questions. She didn't understand why I wanted the dirty details but I said I had to know. I was already hurt, you may hurt me more, but better now than again a couple days weeks or months from now. Some parts matched what the OM said, others didn't. I asked to see her phone but her messages from him were gone with the exception of the last 2 which were about that nights dinner party.

With my job, I put everything in auto-pilot which meant I could deal with stuff emotionally. Her job didn't have that luxury. We had 2 days to talk before she was to go to work again. In short, she wanted to work on things, she wanted to have a family, she was going to show that she's not lying and that she can be trusted. I told her she was working from ZERO trust.

The first month was a mix of emotions. Highs and lows. I read about the hysterical bonding. I had that, I needed to reclaim my wife. I don't think she had it that much at all. But there were times it mattered and times it didn't. The fact it wasn't there for her had me wondering if there was ever remorse.

I got tested for STD's and even though she said she never had sex and that this was the first time anything like this had happened, I insisted that she get tested as well. Lucky for us, nothing. I was more concerned about the blood I got directly from him. The STD test for her was more of a punch to her stomach. Not sure if that's a good way to look at it, but if felt good at the time.

3 months later we moved. I didn't want to be near her in-laws anymore. We both found some comfort in that. I know many would suggest MC, I've seen that here. Maybe I don't quite grasp the benefits of it and neither does my wife. I told her that if she wanted to continue being married, if she wanted to be with me and only me, we would need to sit down and set out goals. We needed to communicate our feelings better and work on it as a couple. No more secret conversations between other people about us. I bought books and read online articles. 

We still fought, we still had issues with sex and responsibilities, but we were trying. Notice I say sex and responsibilities. The sex is because I don't plan on having sex with anyone else. I also think there was some one-sided hysterical bonding...but the lack of attraction to me made me feel bad. Her reasons were that she was tired or that she didn't feel pretty. I do my very best to put her in the mood. I don't put any expectations on the table. There are times I've noticed she is just completely not wanting to and I stop and tell her to get some rest. I don't moan and groan about it. But in trying to be honest, I do bring it up at the right time. She thinks I bring it up too much. Too much is the whole 4 times I brought it up in the last year.

A year out and things are normalizing considering the pain. I decided after one argument we had to bring up what we had promised each other, that we would not keep secrets from each other even if those were hurtful. If she didn't like something I did, if it bothered her, she would talk to me. The same goes for me when something bothers me.

Now, 18 months out I'm getting a bad vibe again. I tried bringing things up in a respectful manner, I asked her to be honest. I wasn't confrontational. She thought I was being jealous but I explained to her that in the past, when red flags were jumping out at me, I ignored them. I reminded her of what happened 18 months ago NOT to make her feel guilty but to remind her of the pain it caused and that I would rather things end with at least a little bit of dignity than with none at all. She cried, she blamed herself for creating this situation. I told her it wasn't about that and that she was avoiding the question at hand. There was texting happening again, more frequently and that work seemed to take more of her time, again.

We talked until I couldn't keep my eyes open. She cried but said that nothing was happening. I went through some of her messages but had no power in me to go through all of them. Besides, if she were having an EA again, and she knows what an EA is now, then she'll likely hide it better. But I really don't know. It's almost like that first time was easy to catch because she had no idea how to hide or be careful. 

Then this morning we had a big fight about money, something I hate to fight about because we don't have any money issues. The economy is on her mind, I don't mind sitting down and talking about planning for the worst but I don't want it controlling our lives and our happiness. She didn't get it. I didn't get her. She went to work and it was left at that. The OM doesn't use the same route she does anymore and both know I know if they were caught on the same bus, it would be over.

So I'm stuck with this vibe today and while I was wondering whether or not to post this, since it's so long, I decided it would be good therapy to write it down. There was no letter written to the OM, my talk with him included me telling him next time I would cut off his balls. I doubt he's got the guts to try again. Going to her in-laws about this would just make things worse, going to my parents would just make things awkward. I have 2 friends that know what's happened. Both say they respect me but don't want to get involved in any big decisions I might make. They did say they thought the vibe was just another low, but I can't tell. She's been transparent about passwords and her phone. She doesn't drive so putting anything in our car wouldn't matter. A GPS tracking for her phone would be great but she could just leave her phone at work, go out, do whatever, and she's still at work. It feels like even if I did do that, I'd be like her prison guard.

I love my wife, I want things to work, I want to trust her again and I want these bad vibes to go away. I normally don't drink, but now that these vibes are here, the drinking creeps up on me. It's the only thing that kills the pain of thinking too much. That's what I think I'm going to talk to my wife about tonight...or is that just pathetic too? Or maybe I'll wait for a bit of advice from the crowd here. I'm not an alcoholic, I am a healthy person when it comes to food and drinks. The alcohol is new and I know it's bad, but it helps...maybe I'll make a salad


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

First of all, drop the booze.

You are in false reconcilliation. Your wife never faced any sanctions for what she did. She got to bang another guy, keep her house, keep her comfortable life, and keep her husband as a backup plan.

It's water under the bridge now, but you should have asked her to pack her bags and leave the night you caught her with the OM. Then you should have boxed up her belongings and told her to come get them, filed for divorce and gone pitch black dark on her. 

This would have served to give her a harsh wakeup call and given her a taste of life on her own and alone with her parents. Had you done this, there is a 50/50 chance she would have come crawling back, truly remorseful for what she did, and you would have been much farther along in marital recovery. Instead, you taught her that she could do what she wanted to and recieve no sanctions or repercussions. 

Because you went easy on her, she has no respect for you, that's why you can't shake the feeling. Right now she is still one foot out the door, and all it will take is another sweet talker to come along and woo her, and next time she will be gone.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So your wife says they never had sex? Come on, it was quickie at a mutual friends house. It was the excitement of doing it secretly when you were there . This should be something they should comfortable doing only after regularly having sex for a long time. And she says it was the first time she was about to do it.


You never got the full truth.

She still looks disengaged and you had sex 4 times after this? This usually happens when they take the affair underground. She is most likely still in the affair.

She wants to put the affair behind her. Huge huge red flag. Some posters here struggle even 10 years after the affair since they did not deal with the pain properly.


She might have a burner phone. Check it out.

What kind of phone does she have? Smart phones have chat applications that do not show up on the account.

Why is she still working there with the OM? It is very easy to hide and resume work place affairs.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> She still looks disengaged and you had sex 4 times after this? This usually happens when they take the affair underground. She is most likely still in the affair.



he complained about the sex life 4 times, he mentioned a HB period


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Agree with Bandit, he always has great insight.

She never went through TRUE remorse and was never fully honest with you. You gave her a pass and that Elephant is still in the room.

Unfortunately, except for the anger and the arguing, she got away without having to work on the marriage and understand what she was giving up. 

You are the NICE Guy who is there to support her and she is using you because you are the NICE guy who was all those things to her in the first 5 years of the marriage. You are trying to get that feeling back with her and she is using that to keep you around. Is she committed to the Marriage or is she having her Cake.

She needs to commit to the marriage.

Unless she does, be ready for more S**T.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

I wish there were a manual to marriages and a troubleshooting guide we can all take a good look at so we can all know what to do right out of the gate. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. It is what it is. If I could go back, I'd take your advice...can't do that. Looking for advice on what I can do now.

I may have not been explicit enough about our 2 day talk. There was a lot of dirt that came out. Over and over I asked her if this was it, the first time, the only time and if so why THEN at THAT place. The reasons given made sense at the time, while I was angry, not an excuse for it. And I was half expecting some jail time.

We've had sex more than 4 times. The subject of sex, talking about it, has come up 4 times. These are times when I feel like she's not at all interested or just doing it for the sake of doing it without really being there. That's when I pick a time to talk about it, but she feels like I talk about it too much.

She has a smartphone but doesn't know how to work it. I install all her apps. It's an android phone, all her apps are on there because I put them there. As far as a burner phone, where would I look? I'll start checking around, maybe turn my webcam on in the bedroom to see if she's hiding anything in there and move the camera around the house. That's the only way I can think of it.

She doesn't work with the OM, they were on the same bus route. There are more than a few routes to her work place and I'm sure to his. Since this is a place I know they COULD meet I have taken the bus to work as well just to see. I've also offered rides spontaneously to gauge her response. During my talk with the OM I told him to use a different route. Whether he listened or not, I don't know. I'm pretty sure I scared him enough to keep him away. But the response so far seems that I mishandled things the first time and now I'm paying the price. 

So, other than looking for a burner phone, tracking her calls with some kind of app, checking in on her going to and from work, as in me taking the bus or giving her a ride, what can I do?

I do know that round 2, if there is a round 2, will be handled very differently as far as she is concerned. The same thing would happen to the OM, worse if it's the same OM.

I don't know what's happened to him since, I could ask a friend to check in on things. I know from our conversation that he wasn't MR. Responsible as far as work and life in general, but I don't even know if he's around anymore. But then, what if it's someone else? What if it is a co-worker this time? I know most of her female co-workers, a few of the guys who are much older. I doubt talking to them would reveal anything. 

Yeah, so what next?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I believe she was having what we call an "exit affair". She has been disconnecting from you for probably years now, and used the affair a way to completely emotionally detach from you. 

On my signature line below is a link to the 180. 

Read it and start practicing it. The self-improvement aspects of it will help you become emotionally independent of your wife and start preparing you for a life without her. 

Worst part of this is you basically have to go celibate, because it tells you to completely withdraw all affection toward her. It will be tough. Read it and re-read it every morning until you commit the steps to memory. It will be hard to break old habits, but the 180 will help you see it through, and you may even be surprised to find your love for her diminishing every day and you will see her for what she truly is: a coward and a cheat.

In order to save your marriage you may have to accept the fact that the marriage is over and start moving on. Doesn't sound like it makes any sense, but it's true.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

67flh said:


> for gods sake, don't have sex with her...that's all you need getting her pregnant and her out being the town bicycle.


Good advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are against counselling?


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You are against counselling?


Not entirely, no. I just envision someone listening and giving us advice I could get from a good book on the same topic. I'm just not sure what the real benefits are. 

So is the consensus her that having handled things poorly, the marriage is over? I should go with the 180 (I haven't read it, but I will later) and simply move on then?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Bandit is on the money here.

The way she hooked up with the OM is perhaps the most disrespectful tryst I've ever heard of on these forums.

She doesn't respect you, she doesn't desire you, you are her back-up plan.

If you had shown her some consequences back when it happened you may have been able to salvage some if that respect & had something to work with.
If you had divorced her you'd be a year into a brand new life but you stuck yourself in a miserable limbo.

I'd get out now before I wasted anymore time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

tacoma said:


> The way she hooked up with the OM is perhaps the most disrespegging tryst I've ever heard of on these forums.


unfortunately I have to disagree here, I've seen worse including the guy who's wife was banging OM in the basement while he slept during false R


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Just read it and wondered if this is kind of like going into friendship mode, or roommate mode, where nothing special happens, you do your things, she does hers?

The benefit being that you work on yourself and get ready to jump ship. Is there any hope in reconciliation with this plan? If so how? If not, why not just say "See ya.". I know that's easier said than done but it would give you way more time for yourself.

Or am I reading this wrong?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> unfortunately I have to disagree here, I've seen worse including the guy who's wife was banging OM in the basement while he slept during false R


I missed that one.

You get around more than I do.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

username101 said:


> Not entirely, no. I just envision someone listening and giving us advice I could get from a good book on the same topic. I'm just not sure what the real benefits are.
> 
> So is the consensus her that having handled things poorly, the marriage is over? I should go with the 180 (I haven't read it, but I will later) and simply move on then?


Some times counseling gives a safe avenue for the couple to vent their frustrations without being judged. Say your wife thinks that you throw the affair in her face too many times, maybe she would feel more comfortable saying that to you through the MC than directly saying it to you and face your ire. One more benefit would be a neutral third party agreeing with one of you might give the other spouse a different perspective.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

username101 said:


> Just read it and wondered if this is kind of like going into friendship mode, or roommate mode, where nothing special happens, you do your things, she does hers?
> 
> The benefit being that you work on yourself and get ready to jump ship. Is there any hope in reconciliation with this plan? If so how? If not, why not just say "See ya.". I know that's easier said than done but it would give you way more time for yourself.
> 
> Or am I reading this wrong?


I don`t know if the 180 will help you.

The 180 isn`t supposed to be used to R BUT often when the object of our affection sees that we don`t really give a damn what they do they often react to that in a dependent way and become emotional about the one in the 180 again.

Sometimes the withdrawal from them causes them to try to become closer.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

username101 said:


> Just read it and wondered if this is kind of like going into friendship mode, or roommate mode, where nothing special happens, you do your things, she does hers?
> 
> The benefit being that you work on yourself and get ready to jump ship. Is there any hope in reconciliation with this plan? If so how? If not, why not just say "See ya.". I know that's easier said than done but it would give you way more time for yourself.
> 
> Or am I reading this wrong?


it's a method of detaching

_sometimes_ the spouse will notice and then get worried or feel more attracted and then start doing the things you need to heal, if that becomes the case then you can reconsider R


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Any kids?

You both are financially independent?

For now, start separating your finance and assets from hers. Move yours to places where she would not know about or can find it.

Do the 180.


She had checked out with you the first time. She might be a zombie in this marriage now. The 180 is to help you emotionally and is not meant to get her back, though it could.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Agree with Bandit - lay off the booze. I did not listen to Bandit and the others and it has kicked me in the butt. LAY OFF THE BOOZE.

Get a VAR in her car if she is cheating you will find out typically there because cheaters like to talk in their cars.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

OP,

I think she had a shock of her life you beat her OM at the party. What does she say about it?

Trust your guts when it comes to changes in her behavior.

How is she responding to you and your terms these days?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

One thing though, I felt happy that the OP beat the **** out of OM. Too often, BS don't assault OM's out of concern for their kids(and rightly so). But reading that felt good. I read it twice.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

That story broke my heart was racing the whole time.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Ditch the booze, it puts on weight and makes your brain slow at a time you must be sharp

Do you have the money to hire someone to follow her for a couple of days? In particular to see if she pulls out a burner phone on the bus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> unfortunately I have to disagree here, I've seen worse including the guy who's wife was banging OM in the basement while he slept during false R


Indeed. That was LostCPA. Here's his thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

On top of what everyone else said, is this the type of a marriage you want to be part of? 

How long will you monitor her, look over your shoulder or wonder if she's meeting up with OM or found another guy.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

This is absolutely heart breaking.

Brother, your thread title says it all. You owe it to yourself to protect yourself*- you don't want to go thru this again.

Start seperating your finaicials and what not. Please quit drinking. Take care of yourself.

And please know that there is life after divorce. You deserve someone who loves you, not someone who falls in "love" with some dude on the bus and tries to sleep with with him pretty much under your nose.




*there's a poorly constructed sentence


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Dayum!!! I read the first couple of paragraphs and skipped the rest because the post was just soooo long. When I read about the OM getting his azz kicked I went back and read the entire post. Wow! No disappointment here. I felt like standing up and cheering. You've accomplished every betrayed spouse's fantasy. Thank you!

[If there is a next time, you might want to restrain yourself though.]


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

What I'm about to say is going to be of no help to you, but ..... I just love the way you described how you beat the living sh1t out of the OM! If more men took that approach, there just might be fewer OMs. Of course the lawyers would be very busy. Sorry for de-railing the thread, but you impressed the crap out of me.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

While I empathize with your need to beat the crap out of the guy, and I'm glad you did, actually, that side of you may be frightening your wife, and impeding your ability to reconcile. You're ambivalent, as all of us have been. You need to decide what YOU want to do. A counselor-individual or MC- may be helpful to you. And as noted above, avoid the booze; it will only make all of this worse.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

There are no kids. Putting a VAR in the car seems rather pointless since she doesn't drive and the only time she'd be in it would be with me. Things would be very suspicious if she were in the car without me on the phone.

I will try to stop drinking during those hard times. I don't know if it makes sense that I still love my wife and the 180 is what is going to, in the end, pull us apart completely. In the end, from what I'm reading, I will be emotionally prepared but just knowing that's the plan makes it hard to start. This would be easier a year or two into a marriage, I think.

About the beating, my wife's initial reaction was to get me to stop. During our first talk I asked her why she stopped me knowing that this was a man vs man situation and her answer was that she felt responsible and didn't want me killing him and going to jail but that also if he got hit so should she. She never asked how he was after I talked with the OM but I assume knowing he was up and talking meant he wasn't dead.

Honestly, as strong as I may seem with how I handled the OM I'm far weaker when it comes to my wife. I guess that was obvious from my first post. I want to believe that she wants to be together because for me the love is still there and there are still times when it seems that she feels the same. She's focused on work more than anything.

If 180 is designed to emotional release myself from her and feel better about myself then I guess that starts today. But, if during all this I find something out I may be posting from jail. I don't know how other people CAN'T get physically violent with OM to some degree.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You got lucky because OM took his beating like a man and didn't call the cops, gotta give him that much. Most people are trying to avoid criminal convictions as much as possible.

You need to concentrate more on your WW. It was she who lied to you, broke her vows, and was going to bang this OM right there at the party where you were at. That takes A LOT OF DISRESPECT. She's more focused on work? Don't let her sweep this under the rug. She needs to be remorseful and transparent.

No kids? I'd be kicking her to the curb if I were you, but I'm not you. So it's up to you if you want to give her a chance. Remember that Reconciliation (R) is a precious, precious gift, ONLY given when the WS (her) has done the heavy lifting for R. She had better meet all the requirements for R before you even consider it. Too many BSs like you sweep affairs under the rug only to regret it later. There are quite a few stories like that here in the forum.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

username101 said:


> There are no kids. Putting a VAR in the car seems rather pointless since she doesn't drive and the only time she'd be in it would be with me. Things would be very suspicious if she were in the car without me on the phone.
> 
> I will try to stop drinking during those hard times. I don't know if it makes sense that I still love my wife and the 180 is what is going to, in the end, pull us apart completely. In the end, from what I'm reading, I will be emotionally prepared but just knowing that's the plan makes it hard to start. This would be easier a year or two into a marriage, I think.
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh I feel for you. The 180 stuff is only there to protect your heart. To get you to meet your own needs for a while so you can see what she is bringing to the table. I see it as just a way to handle yourself emotionally when it gets overwhelming.

Your story is quite a tale. I'm a little worried that you feel responsible for neglecting her needs and that may have somehow led to the affair....it didn't. It contributed to the marital problems and she should have come to you and not someone else. 

I am sure every betrayed spouse on here is living vicariously through your description of confronting the OM. But it could have turned out very bad for you. I think you could have easily ended up in jail or worse, prison, if the OM had not made it. And frankly, I am surprised he did. 

What a waste that would have been, for you to lose your life and your freedom because of this affair. That would be completely unfair to you as a person, on top of everything else that has happened. You deserve a good, happy and healthy life. Please don't lose sight of this. 

Best of luck to you.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Is a 18 months out too far away from dday to ask her why she hasn't been more remorseful? Or is that me being too jumpy? Is it too far away for me to bring it up all over again and tell her things aren't going the way I expected?

She has no fear of my physically hurting her or anyone else in any other situations. I don't like to get physical because I don't know what other people are capable of and no matter how bad a situation is I'm always happier resolving it with words. She's seen my verbal confront people but never have I gotten physically violent. I've never asked her if she felt scared after seeing what she saw. Maybe that's a question to ask.

As far as transparency goes, I don't know how else to get her to be more transparent. I have access to all her accounts, her phone, her computer both home and work. She went as far as saying she would take pictures or video at any time of the day to prove she is where she says she is and send it to me or to do video chat via her phone. She has sent pictures in the past. What she doesn't know is that every picture sent has EXIF data in it. The data shows when it was taken and has GPS in it as well. There's more data than that, but those are the two that matter. There's no taking a picture now and then saying it was later or earlier in the day. Messing around with EXIF data is hard and she doesn't know what EXIF data is.

Maybe she felt like she got lucky and that I turned a bit of a blind eye to the whole mess. Her moving on with me is her pretending like it never happened. I know I wanted to put it behind me.

After bringing up all of this the other day and having our fight over money, she came home trying to be nice. She initiated all conversations, she was, in short, being nicer than the days before. How do I tell the difference between nice and remorse?


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

username101 said:


> How do I tell the difference between nice and remorse?


Doesn't lordmayhem have a chart for this?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Remorse is a constant whether the affair is a topic at the moment or not.

Being nice is something they do to make you stop talking/thinking about what they did.
It`s not really being nice, it`s a manipulation.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

username101 said:


> About the beating, my wife's initial reaction was to get me to stop. During our first talk I asked her why she stopped me knowing that this was a man vs man situation and her answer was that she felt responsible and didn't want me killing him and going to jail but that also if he got hit so should she. She never asked how he was after I talked with the OM but I assume knowing he was up and talking meant he wasn't dead.
> 
> Honestly, as strong as I may seem with how I handled the OM I'm far weaker when it comes to my wife. I guess that was obvious from my first post. I want to believe that she wants to be together because for me the love is still there and there are still times when it seems that she feels the same. She's focused on work more than anything.


I am still wondering about why OM came along with his friend to your place - profusely bleeding. And he starts telling about how A happened?

As far as your dealing with OM at the party is concerned, let me tell you, we are all human animals! Some BS think about hurting WS or OW/OW. And you did.

You are saying "I want to believe that she wants to be together because for me the love is still there and there are still times when it seems that she feels the same. She's focused on work more than anything." If love was (let alone "is") there, why did she have an affair in the first place? Know the facts.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

username101 said:


> Maybe she felt like she got lucky and that I turned a bit of a blind eye to the whole mess. Her moving on with me is her pretending like it never happened. I know I wanted to put it behind me.


Should you not be asking how dare did she get physical with OM at the party, while you were around?
OMG!



username101 said:


> After bringing up all of this the other day and having our fight over money, she came home trying to be nice. She initiated all conversations, she was, in short, being nicer than the days before. How do I tell the difference between nice and remorse?


Buddy, sad that you are still not sure (16 months?). True remorse is just lived, in silence, in feeling your pain, in understanding the aftermath. You ought to know it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

IMHO---you did a lot of conflict avoiding with her, prior to her cheating---the situation with your in-laws---which allegedly caused most of your marital problems----did you ever forcefully take control, and put a stop to all the crap, that was causing your marital problems??--------She began to demonize you, and justified, her feelings, for whatever it was she wanted to do, you just kept on letting all slide--cuz you didn't want the conflict.

Very large point coming at you next----THERE IS NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY, ONCE YOU TAKE VOWS---you want privacy, YOU STAY SINGLE---when you take vows, you become an open book to each other in re:EVERYTHING--------you ducked so many issues/red flags/gut rumblings---cuz you didn't wanna snoop------If you are married, you are ENTITLED to know everything there is about your partner

What consequences, boundaries, is she under RIGHT NOW---any, any at all??????

She has had experience at cheating, she also found out she can get away with cheating cuz you are still with her, proclaiming your love---by the way what is it you love about her----maybe the way she was willing to have sex with her lover, right in front of you and all your friends/acquaintences, at a party---did you love that about her---maybe how she demonized you, maybe how she tried to keep you from hurting her lover----what is it you love about her????---I digressed a bit---the point I need to make is your wife, if she is cheating again---now KNOWS HOW TO CHEAT AND GET AWAY WITH IT---she is experienced----your gut is talking to you---you need to figure out someway to check everything---most time the gut is RIGHT----it was the 1st time!!!!!!

You also seem fixated on wanting to jump down the throat of her lover/lover to be---yes he deserved to get beaten up, (unless you end up doing time, then it ain't worth it)---but I really have yet to read here, where you lay the blame on the one and only person in this whole F'ing wide world who is responsible for your mge., and I ain't talking about you----YOUR BEEF IS WITH YOUR WIFE---ALWAYS IS/ALWAYS WILL BE---stop lashing out at partners/potential partners----your wife is who your beef is with.

You will do whatever you want, but do not come up weak, and easy this time, or you will have a record of 0-2, and that ain't good!!!!!


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> I am still wondering about why OM came along with his friend to your place - profusely bleeding. And he starts telling about how A happened?


From what I understand now, the OM's friend had helped him out of different situations that would have messed up both their lives enough to cause concern. I don't know if these were jobs, wives, whatever, but they didn't want the cops around and were worried enough that I would end up at the hospital saying I beat somebody up which would've ended with a the cops being there. I don't know what it was, I don't care.

As far as me asking, I did 18 months ago, but wondered if 18 months out I can bring it all up again, or if this is something that most here would say try to avoid. I'd say, if I had to go it alone, I would bring it up because I've still got questions, maybe late, but they are still there in my head, stuff that pops up a little later, a day I remember not being quite right. All kinds of stuff.

I don't think there was much conflict avoiding, we fought but when stuff needed to get done I did my best to be civil about it. I'm not one for yelling and screaming, that's just me. And while I'm not trying to defend her, there were times when she apologized for her actions. It wasn't always bitter to the end. It was up and down.

Taking control of her parents, I think I did my best to make it clear they were making their only daughter's life more difficult than it needed to be. It didn't work. I didn't go beyond that. I made it clear to my wife she didn't need to be pushed around by her parents. I made myself available. At the time that's all I felt I could do. Not enough?

Privacy, I guess you're right. Never thought of it that way. There were nights out with the boys that everyone would start moaning about their wives or girlfriends. I never did. It wasn't because I didn't have issues it's just that those issues weren't something I wanted everyone else to hear. Right now, I think I said it before, all passwords, phone records, everything is open. She's never been very good with her gadgets so installing some sort of monitoring device would be easy.

I don't know if I've written this already but she knows that if anything is happening it's over. I can't really put it into words here but I made it very clear the amount of pain caused that day and that there was absolutely no way I was going through that again. Leave with dignity don't let it die until there's none left before leaving.

And again, I'm lost for words as to why I love her. There is a history, unbelievable memories shared, good and bad. 10 years, 1 mistake, throw it all away. Perhaps grace comes into play here. I don't know, I can't explain it. Did I love her in that moment, on that day, NOT AT ALL. I hated her with all my heart. And at the same time I wanted to rewind to the years we had before. Is there a manual? Error code: WTF.

My fixation on the OM is mostly due to the fact that he knew me, my wife and that we were married. I can't say I would have done anything differently if he were a stranger. I can't say I wouldn't have gone after the person had I not caught them in the act. I'd like to think I'm better than that, but I'm not. I don't think so anyways. 

I was verbally abusive towards my wife at home that night and over the next days in talking with her. Maybe it's my upbringing, but if a lady isn't physically trying to hurt you, a man, you don't physically hurt her. As much as I wanted to slap, spit in her face and do all kinds of horrible things, I would have felt that with that we would be on even grounds. She did something hurtful, now so did I. Only difference being what I did would've been illegal.

If the record comes up 0-2, then I'll be on here giving my advice to those in similar situations. 

I don't know if all would agree with what I'm about to do next, but I've decided to work the weekend. I have 6 VARs (I'm assuming we're talking about voice recorders). I can use them for work when I'm done using them at home. I did a quick test to see how well they work and they seem to be able to pick up quite a bit. All noise activated. If she calls someone, I'll know. If she walks into a room she normally doesn't use or stumbles around, maybe I can find out where she keeps a burner phone, if she has one. I really don't know what these are all going to reveal.

I don't know if I've already emotionally prepped myself, I feel kind of detached. It seems I'm expecting the worse and rehearsing what I plan to say in my head.

Regardless of what is found out by Sunday, Monday morning I do plan a sit down with her to talk about what happened 18 months ago, and in more detail and more questions.

If remorse is suffered in silence, I don't know how I'm suppose to know what's going on. I tossed the bottle of whiskey in the morning. I bought a new bottle on my way home. Haven't opened it. I know what people are saying here, wish it were as easy as just NOT. I'm at the gym 3 days a week, including today. I tried tiring myself out hitting the punching bags. Had a trainer teach me how to throw proper punches. This is in no way preparing me for an encounter with a possible OM, it's just I thought it would relieve me of some of the stress. It didn't do the job.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

U101,

Throw. Away the booze and have the talk with your wife. What you have to determine is if your wife loves you as much as you love her and if she still wants to be married to you.

If yes to both questions, then she needs a good counselor to determine why she had an affair and why she took it physical.

You cannot do ths for her..... She needs to do this for you. She needs those answers so she never pulls this crap again.

A marriage without trust is no marriage at all.

And if you are still drinking it means you cannot cope with these sues in your marriage. You need counselling too.

And if he balks at counselling then she walks. It is that simple.

You guys pretty young and if she is not remorseful and willing to do the work then it is time to move on.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustWaiting (Jun 28, 2011)

Your wife didn't think you were there for her. Her EA caught fire and at that point she did not like you. She did not respect you. And I'll bet she really didn't like herself and her life very much at that point either. It may indeed have been an Exit affair and she just didn't care about anything.

You don't think she was completely truthful about everything and because of that you don't trust what she tells you now.

It doesn't sound like there is remorse; and there won't be because she still doesn't think you were there for her.

If she hasn't opened up to you by now about the details of 18 months ago, it is highly unlikely she will open up about the details now. You know where her head and her heart and her body were 18 months ago. Getting past your PTSD depends more on feeling comfortable with where her head and heart are now so that you can feel comfortable moving forward with the next ten years. She may not know the answer to that question. 

Have you read Just Friends or other books yet? Have you watched reruns of Dr Phil about infidelity, affairs, recovery? I don't agree with everything he says or all the various books say, but just like this website, it all gives you insight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Just Waiting laid out her attempt at a PA, pretty well-----what I am wondering is why then, there, that place, that time

Most A's specially the physical part---are, if planned, done in hiding, in the dark so to speak, why would your wife want to go physical right there, right in front of all to see, unless she really was trying to "put you down"----have you ever gotten to the bottom of why she attempted to go physical right out there in front of everyone.

Other more important WHY---is the deep down WHY---why did she need this A.---you have given us all the reasons, that YOU came up with---what has SHE said about the WHY---the really deep down WHY-------just maybe for the 2 of you to continue---she should go to IC, just a thought.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

username101 said:


> Is a 18 months out too far away from dday to ask her why she hasn't been more remorseful? Or is that me being too jumpy? Is it too far away for me to bring it up all over again and tell her things aren't going the way I expected?
> 
> She has no fear of my physically hurting her or anyone else in any other situations. I don't like to get physical because I don't know what other people are capable of and no matter how bad a situation is I'm always happier resolving it with words. She's seen my verbal confront people but never have I gotten physically violent. I've never asked her if she felt scared after seeing what she saw. Maybe that's a question to ask.
> 
> ...


My wife fears or feared that I would go physical on her. I never did but I yelled and I did break into the meatplant where the OM worked to kick as*. Your wife seen you kick the OM's as* so she has seen what you can do. If you are like me you would not strike your wife but they don't know that for sure so I suspect she does fear what you might do.

Being nice and remorseful should go hand in hand. But, someone can be nice and not remorseful so you never really can be sure. If she is playing a game or is still in the fog there will not be true remorse. I would give it time and see by her words (which don't mean a whole lot right now) and her actions (and I would focus on her actions).


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I hope that there wont be any more As.
And that depends on how remorseful she is.
Which goes by her action, and real repentance. You should be able to see the repentance. Her eyes will say it. Her actions will demonstrate it.
Your heart will know it.
Good lucks.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

username101, do you really think you will ever be able to trust this woman? A person could drink a quart of Everclear and not get drunk enough to take the chance those two did when you caught them disrobing to do a quickie. She has NO RESPECT for you and the ONLY reason she is with you is she recognizes a good provider when she sees one. It's likely that is all she ever saw in you.
Been There.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Maybe I getting a little mixed up but "Are you thinking that at the party was the first time she was getting naked with the other guy and going to do something?"

If you are I got a bridge to sell you.

You need all the facts and all the history.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

rrrbbbttt said:


> Maybe I getting a little mixed up but "Are you thinking that at the party was the first time she was getting naked with the other guy and going to do something?"
> 
> If you are I got a bridge to sell you.
> 
> You need all the facts and all the history.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

First off do not tell anyone you re getting lessons on how to punch someone in case it comes up in the future. 

Be careful of the 180. Tailor it to your needs unless you decide to go full bore into divorce. 180 can throw a struggling marriage into a fatal tailspin. If/when you decide it is over,then 180 all out.

Quit drinking, quit whinning , pleading etc. Iif you have to cry/loose it , find a place to do it in private. Do nothing to show weakness in front of your wife, be strong like a rock.

You mentioned boys night out, does your wife do GNOs?

For now, if you want to try and save the marriage:

First get your wife into Individual counseling, the parent thing alone has been enough to drive anyone around the bend. IC for you also with someone who understands infidelity and ptsd. The trauma you have undergone is as bad or worse than losing a family member, being in a military battle etc. DO NOT DOUBT THIS and MC

Get a new haircut, new clothes, keep working out especially weight lifting.

Date your wife,,real dates . Never stop romancing/dating her. Thats, as in never. Put the thrill back into your marriage.

Here are books you need immediately (maybe download them)

"Married Man Sex Life"
(sorry not a sex manual) most important!!!!!!!! to understand why your wife may have cheated and covers the MAP plan to reclaim your marriage. MAP better than 180 at this time

"No More Mr Nice Guy" and blog You really need this

"His Needs Her Needs"

" Not Just Friends"

There is a VAR pen that can be put into your wifes purse at brickstone

Hope your VARs don't turn up anything this weekend

Good luck and prayers.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Make no mistake , it isn't to late to go back over anything until the divorce is final. Tell your wife things are not going well. Things have been left hanging. Then sit with her and study this set of instructions. Discuss take notes nad go over it as many times as you need to. 

The reason she was going to bang the OM right under your nose is because of the anger she had for you. More than likely heaped on you instead of where it realy belonged ie. parents, work, etc. MC again.



Print this off and do not let you wife know about this site.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, thanks for kicking POSOM's ass. Thats what I call a deterence.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Gonna need a little bit of time to read through your post chapparal. I will though.

I have put today's recordings on my computer but haven't listened to anything. She's upset today but wouldn't come out with why. She had some champagne that's been in our fridge since New Years and things changed and she was in a good mood. I had a bit but since I'm up early tomorrow for more work I'm not going to be spending much time listening to what happened in the house or drinking. 

Tomorrow is a new day and she'll be at home all by herself she says. I'll be up and out before she wakes up giving me plenty of time to make sure everything is in place.

The question as to my wife going out with the girls, yes. She goes out with co-workers who are all female. Her friends that don't work with her are mostly around for lunch or get togethers where guys and girls will be around. I have no issue with her going out. At this point it's an issue of emotions, hormones, alcohol and men that I have issues with, when put together. None of that happening as far as I know.

Funny thing is, 5 years ago I would've been perfectly fine with her play the female wing-man of one of her friends. I've actually been in the bar/club and watched her do this. But it always comes back to me. I've done the same, in the past and I've always gone back to her. Now, just writing this, I'm wondering if this was as innocent as I think/thought it was.

I'm going to bed, thanks all for the support.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Going out drinking with the girls is always fatal to a marriage in my experience.(30 yrs) As a matter of fact, I know that a newly wed could not even keep her pants on. Although I do know one woman in her forties who is still married. All her party friends found new "better" men. 

Go to the discovery channel and find the the show they put on a few weeks ago. Married women on GNO's show more skin and dance more provocatively when they are ovulating than non married women.

There is a poster here that tells how he picks up married women much easier than single women and how pitifully easy it is.

Think, A fool and his money are soon parted. Just insert wife for money. 

I'm guessing you haven't read "Married Man Sex Life" yet or you would not be saying what you are saying.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Day 2 is over. She was in a good mood today, better than yesterday. She's in bed and I'm finishing the uploading. Tomorrow I have the house to myself and I will be listening in. Regardless of what I hear, there will be a talk happening tomorrow.

As far as girl's night out, maybe I'm confusing it with something else. Their idea is to sit around someones apartment, drinking wine, watch TV and talk dirt. Going out means going somewhere nice for dinner with the husbands/boyfriends picking them up sometime later. Going to clubs, no. At least not that I know of. Unless it's at someones place I have to pick her up. It's never been at a club. Not saying you can't pick up at a nice restaurant.

I may be over sensitive today but this morning my wife was feeling like I was 'down' although I wasn't. She showed some concern. I wasn't anything but maybe tired. It's late and I may be reading into things way too much.

Depending how things go tomorrow, I may not be on here for a while. If things go in a direction I'm hoping it won't, I will definitely be absent while I pack up boxes and make my next move. Just in case, if you are a praying person, send them this way.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

username101 said:


> As far as girl's night out, maybe I'm confusing it with something else. Their idea is to sit around someones apartment, drinking wine, watch TV and talk dirt. Going out means going somewhere nice for dinner with the husbands/boyfriends picking them up sometime later. Going to clubs, no. At least not that I know of. Unless it's at someones place I have to pick her up. It's never been at a club. Not saying you can't pick up at a nice restaurant.


That sounds like girls' night in. Girls' Night Out (GNO) means just that - they go out - bar hopping, clubbing, etc. Not a good thing in my book.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Be sure and let us know what you find out and how you handle it. 

Good luck and prayers for your family

Chap


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

I wasn't sure what to write first and what people would want to read and what kind of advice people would then give. So I'm gonna divide it into two posts: The first post is about what I caught on the VARs and the second was the recount of Dday.

OK, short story for the VAR, nothing happened. She had the opportunity to do whatever she wanted. I was out the door at 7am and planned to be home around 7.30pm both days.

It was kind of painful listening to her recordings, looking for hints. Saturday when she was upset it was her mother causing her troubles. The phone rang and while I only heard one side of the conversation it was all about her not being there at her parents enough. When we had our discussion about Dday I asked again why she was upset on Saturday looking for a reason. She gave me the truth, it was her mother. I asked why she didn't share this and she said she didn't want to burden me with her mother's BS when I'm working the weekend. She realized she was being a downer and decided to break out champagne and cheer herself and me up, knowing she had brought the mood down. Since that was something I asked about during our Dday conversation, I didn't want to lose track of the real reason I was bringing up Dday. 

The TV went on and off, she got calls from work and made calls to work. She was on her computer and called me twice. I wasn't able to get on the phone the first time. I thought that if she was checking to make sure I was at work she would do something, but nothing happened.

Sunday she was happy because I made it home earlier than she expected and she thought that we could order in and watch a movie. I'm not sure why she stayed in all day, but that's what she said she would do and that's what happened. She did leave for 10 minutes to get pie from the local store and that 10 minutes I got on my VAR with the alarm going on/off. Not sure what happened outside but she did mention she picked up pie.

Now the VARs are at work. I don't know if I have it in me to keep them at home and listen again. That was a lot of work. I did bring one of them to my discussion about Dday, just so I had something I could use in the future (If it should come to that) and she starts back peddling on certain issues.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

The second post:

This is a little harder and if I wrote EVERYTHING down people would skip most of it I think. I'd post the audio, but that's too much information. Here are the basics, the way I broke it down and saw it from what she said. I'll add more information if asked, if I actually have it and if it will actually help.

I mentioned I wanted to go over Dday. She wasn't happy and I put her into tears before I could start talking. She wasn't all out crying, but she had tears throughout. Reading the comments in the thread, I started with what some of you brought up.

"First, why did you talk trash about me? If you had those feelings why did you not come to me? Were you afraid? And while I still can, I want to ask why it is you decided that it would be that night, in that siutation, that you would start to get physcial with the OM. I tried to put myself into your shoes, getting physical with someone, maybe a co-worker. There's no way I would be caught anywhere near where anybody I knew would see me. I would get as brave as what you did until after I had built up that confidence, in as having sex many times before. How am I suppose to believe that was the first time, the only time?" 

That was the short version of how I started, here's the short of how she answered.

"I didn't understand I was in an EA. I didn't know that's what it was. You taught me what it was and I know that now. I talked bad about you to get closer to him. I felt like it was a fantasy world only it was becoming real, escaping. I don't know why I didn't cling to you instead. He seemed to understand me but I know that's not the reason why now."

"OK, stop there. What's the reason?"

"He wanted to have sex."

"And you didn't?"

"Not in the begining. We were talking on the bus and by text. It was an escape from everything around me, like a vacation. I never thought it was a bad thing. I know it is now. I understand what an EA is. Around Christmas I looked back on the text messages I had and email and noticed that it was something you would not be comfortable with so I deleted them all. I kept deleting them after reading them."

"OK, stop. If you knew I would feel uncomfortable with it, why would you continue doing it?

"Because it was nothing to worry about, not in my mind. It made sense to me at the time. I would continue to have this nice feeling and come home. He would share things with me and I felt like I had to keep up with him. He told me things that made it sound like life was bad for him. I felt sorry for him but also liked that he felt sorry for me when I brought up my issues. When I didn't have any real issues I started to bring things up and over exaggerate how I felt."

"Alright, how about after that? I know what you sent him via text and email, I know what he says happened in conversations on the bus and what you say are different. What happened that led to that day, I mean the night everything got physical?"

"There were only a handful of texts between then and the dinner party, I hadn't seen him on the bus because we weren't around."

She's talking about us being at our parents' houses and other families' houses most of the New Year.

"The night of the dinner party, I asked if he would be there. He said yes. He asked if YOU would be there and I said yes."

"And why do you think he would ask if I would be there? Wouldn't you think he was planning something? What if I wasn't there?"

"I had no real idea how to answer him. You saw the text. I said yes, you would be there. I didn't say it was unfortunate. I may have felt it at the time though. But I didn't hint anything to him that I felt that way."


"Alright, so we're at the party. What happened? Why pretend like you guys never even met."

"At the party, ignoring each other was a turn on for me. Physically it was stimulating. I didn't know if he would walk up to us and say it was nice always talking on the bus or if he would just ignore me. I planned to play it by ear. I wanted him to make that decision. I wanted to be alone with him but not to get physical. I just wanted to be alone like we were on the bus, only for longer than those few minutes so I could talk more in a more comfortable scene. Everyone was busy talking about their own things, you were talking about work. He came over and he said 'I'm going outside, you want to join me?' and I said yes because I thought this was the time to be alone with him, to talk. In my head I might have ignored the red flags that it would get physical because I was so emotional. I didn't think that he would take such a risk, I didn't think I would either. Then, I thought I felt your hands on my hips. You're the only one that does that. I felt like I lost my time with the OM.

"And how did that feel, losing that chance? Be honest please."

"It felt like a good opportunity was lost. The buzz I felt from the alcohol was gone. I was brough to normal."

"But those weren't my hands."

"No, I saw it was his. He kissed me. I didn't resist but I did say that this was too close for comfort."

"Why not end it right then and there, right when things went from you know that I wouldn't be comfortable with things to me definitely hating it? Why allow even the kiss to happen?"

"Reason was left at the door. It didn't matter what else was happening in my life. When I realized it was him and not you, my body went all tingly and felt light and my buzz was back. He took me by the hand and although my head was saying 'no' my body was saying 'yes' and my body was in complete control. I was light on my feet, he brought me to where he thought we were out of sight. I only made one look back to see for myself. But it was just a peak, I was out of it."

"So, you planned on ****ing the guy?"

"On my way outside, no. After he took my by the hands and took me to the other side, yes, and if I had I would have regretted it."

"Regretted doing it or getting caught?"

"Both. When he took his shirt off and started to unbutton mine I knew we were going to be having sex. Everything tingled. It was new, fresh, things that I hadn't felt in ages. My body was in control and while I don't want to blame the alcohol, it had some effect on me. My hormones were out of control. I know that's no excuse, but that's how it felt. Then I heard your voice but didn't know that you saw us. My first reaction was to look around to hide, but you saw us and I was right there. Your stare took all the good out of me and I was filled with everything bad. I didn't realize you and the OM went back inside."

"What do you mean take all the good out of you?"

"I went from tingly and feeling high to cold, dark and feeling like an idiot."

"Because you didn't have the chance to have sex?"

"I don't think so. I think it was because anything in me that thought having sex was a good idea, fun and exciting was replaced with the reality of the situation and shame."

"And what was the reality?"

"I was cheating on my husband and I may have lost him."

It's probably at this point I should have stopped. I was noticeably upset and my wife could barely speak at times. Still I went on. I'm only mentioning this because I need a break from writing.

"I kept my head down thinking you were still staring me down like I was a bad dog or some form of scum. Then I heard noises and looked up. You weren't there. I thought you and the OM were getting into a fight in the house. I tried to compose myself thinking that somehow it would make me look like less of a ****. When I got inside and saw how bad you had already hurt the OM I was afraid that you would kill him and that it would be all my fault. I didn't want him to die, I didn't want you to go to jail. I stood between you hoping you wouldn't keep on punching. When you stopped, I knew if I stood there it would be all over as far as the punching was concerned."

"Did you feel bad for the OM?"

"Yes, because I deserved as much of that as he did but I didn't get a scratch on me."

"Did you think about the pain that you caused me and how much of that you would have to share?"

"No, not at the time."

"Why no remorse over the 2 days we had to talk about things before you were back at work? Or a serious lack of it from where I was sitting? And in the weeks and months that came after that?"

"I was trying to put things together in my head. I wanted to know why the OM lied about what we talked about. I know it's my word against his. I put those feelings first. I'm selfish. I know that. After thinking about it and realizing it was just sex for him I didn't need to know anymore. I still do wish I had the answers but they aren't important enough to me anymore. I tried to make things better but didn't know how without bringing up everything. I wanted to avoid everything that happened."

"Alright, so what am I suppose to do if I feel like you're not being honest with me? What should I say or do?"

This is where her tone changed. I could see that she was upset that I would think she would do this a second time. She tried to shift to another subject but I kept us on course. The subject she used to put us off course is definitely something worth mentioning in another thread, but it would just confuse people now.

"You can check my panties, my clothes or take me to the doctors. You can ask for anything and everything, I can show you that nothing is happening."

I'm trying to keep my cool and doing a good job of it I think.

"You realize that I'm bringing up what happened because I'm not about to go through that again. If you have something going on, I want to know. If you are lying I will find out and that will be the end of it. It's not a threat, as much as it may sound like one, it's a promise that as long as you are really wanting to save this relationship then so am I. If you aren't, then I'm gone and you can do whatever it is you like to do without a husband looking over your back. So, I guess my next question is, why the lack of sex or sexual desire?"

"I don't feel like a woman, I haven't for a long time."

"OK, I don't understand this. Maybe I'm a guy and I need some serious directions. Treat me like a 4 year old and tell me what it is I have to do to show you how sexy I do think you are. You get up every morning and do your hair, makeup and get dressed all nice and it takes you almost 2 hours. It doesn't matter if you're going out with me, friends or just going shopping at the local supermarket. You are always looking hot. I tell you you look hot. People make comments..."

and I get interupted.

"They say nice things because they are in front of you and can't say anything else. It doesn't matter. It's how I feel."

"And how can I show you that I still see you as a sexy woman?"

"You can't. Nobody can."

"Could the OM, or another OM?"

"No."

"So what are we? Are we just two people living under the same roof and only sharing a bed?"

"No, if you want to have sex we can have it right now!"

She was angry, she thought I was focused on sex. I was, but it's something that has me upset. I told her that I was only focused on issues that were important to me at the time and sex was one of them and not to leave it alone because it was 'just sex'.

"I'm not about to have sex with you just because you think that's what you have to do. You don't want to have sex then neither do I. I'm not going to get all hot for someone who just wants to get it over with and go to sleep."

I realized at this point and after rechecking some of what she said, that it was time to winde down the conversation. Believe it or not, I had a business dinner to attend to that was spur of the moment. It was local, a walk from home. I was thinking about canceling the dinner. I was thinking about how that would make me look to my wife. My client wouldn't have had any issues. I decided to go. Initially my wife was going to join us. She said she would but I told her that if she would rather stay home and gather her thoughts I wasn't about to force her to come out. After a little back and forth, in a friendly way, she decided to stay home. It was a long time since she saw me out the door, and she went as far as giving me a long hug. She said she was sorry for making me the person that I am, the kind that can't trust his wife. I made sure she understood that the conversation was not over, just on pause until things cleared for me. I couldn't really gauge her response well, maybe I was out of it a bit too much as well. I was hoping to see some serious remorse right then and there, but it wasn't, not from where I was standing.

When I got back she had half a bottle of wine left on the table and was passed out in bed.

So, that's it. I'm still trying to digest it all. There were definitely some new details that I hadn't heard before. She knows I don't trust her to be honest with me all the time. She DOESN'T know how to show remorse and I still don't know how to look for it.

I'm going in for a blood test tomorrow and getting another STD test just to be safe. I also plan on asking the doctor if he could refer me to someone who could actually tell if someone has had sex within the last week or so. I'm not sure that's possible. If it is, she may have an appointment too.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

That's it...and writing again helped with some of the angst I have. What does it sound like to you, from your experiences?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get this book "Married Man Sex Life" it may bring your wife back and has a plan to follow (MAP) Amazon.com

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


Study this with your wife, if you havedone this already, let me know and I will delete it since it is fairly long.



Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Yeah, you mentioned this before. I read through it. I plan on getting the book when I have time. I'm a bit focused on work. Don't know why.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

As hard as it was to listen to her say those things, it sounds like the two of you have turned a corner. Now wether or not that means R will happen is up in the air. 

Just keep talking to her. Insist that the two of you start spending at least 15 hours a week of quality time together: walking, talking, going shopping .... you know, acting like a couple again? Get out of the house and do something together. Insist on holding her hand while you are walking together. These little things reinforce marital bonds. 

Sounds to me like she is disconnected. I think she's ashamed of what she did but does not know how to translate that into the healing remorse you need her to show you. She loves you but the two of you are in a rut. Figure out together how to get out of the rut.

Keep listening to the VARs. Honestly, if she was hot and heavy in an affair with someone she would have called him the minute you were out the door. You would have gotten evidence on that first recording.

That's just my take.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

If you are suspicious of any recent sex activity go over her laundry and test it with a "semen test kit". Although not 100% you'll find something, it seems cheaters almost always have unprotected sex.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

username101 said:


> "Why no remorse over the 2 days we had to talk about things before you were back at work? Or a serious lack of it from where I was sitting? And in the weeks and months that came after that?"
> 
> "I was trying to put things together in my head. I wanted to know why the OM lied about what we talked about. I know it's my word against his. I put those feelings first. I'm selfish. I know that. After thinking about it and realizing it was just sex for him I didn't need to know anymore. I still do wish I had the answers but they aren't important enough to me anymore. I tried to make things better but didn't know how without bringing up everything. I wanted to avoid everything that happened."



Here's the key paragraph. She had a couple of days to work on her answers and on how to spin it.

I give the OM's story slightly more weight than hers. He had nothing more to lose, was not invested in your marriage. Your wife is the opposite.

She was looking for sex. That's obvious in what she said and did. She did not friend-zoned him.

Anyways, give yourself time, lots of time, to deal with this.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

:scratchhead:Okay, this is the first time she was alone with this guy and she got so excited that she allowed him to start undressing her at a party with other people around including her husband? I thought this only happened in my fantasies when I was a teenage boy.

Sorry, you are not getting the whole truth. 

Ask her to take a polygraph.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Man I must be getting soft.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This relationship stuff, it's all so bloody complicated, isn't it?

I do hope you two can get yourselves sorted out. Together or as two separate but wiser people.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I wished my wife was as honest and open as yours seemed to be. It is painful but man you got a lot from her in a short period of time. For most of us we don't get it at all.

I


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

username101 said:


> Yeah, you mentioned this before. I read through it. I plan on getting the book when I have time. I'm a bit focused on work. Don't know why.


Just from this sentence, I would say you're wife isn't the only one who is disconnected from the marriage. I think you can download the book MMSL assuming you have time to save your marriage. OM had plenty of time.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Just from this sentence, I would say you're wife isn't the only one who is disconnected from the marriage. I think you can download the book MMSL assuming you have time to save your marriage. OM had plenty of time.


Work helped me stay sane for a few hours during the day. There were times I wanted to lash out, but kept my cool. I knew I would be able to do something else, more constructive with the anger. It went into work.

No drinking, which was my painkiller for a few days/week.

I downloaded the book and I'm just getting into it. Still in the Alpha/Beta male traits and chemical reactions part. Makes sense from a biological/physiological point of view, but I always thought that being the person you ARE is the reason you are loved. Making changes to be someone you're not seems a bit like role-play only difference is you're role-playing a husband you're not.

BUT, I have yet to finish the book and this is only after about 20 minutes of reading.

I would like to fix things, I would like to trust her to be honest. One thing is for sure, she knows that without a doubt that there is no room for error.

Yesterday she came home with more deserts, stuff she doesn't usually buy for me. Just like the pie the other day. I don't eat a lot of sugar so she knows what I will and won't eat. Perhaps she was feeling a bit guilty? I don't know.

As to why she felt all tingly with the OM but not with me I think is simply because I didn't give her that fix of dopamine (I think that's the chemical). Something I'm doing or not doing. She doesn't know or at least should wouldn't tell me why she lacked that feeling. Certainly wasn't easy to hear.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

username101 said:


> As to why she felt all tingly with the OM but not with me I think is simply because I didn't give her that fix of dopamine (I think that's the chemical). Something I'm doing or not doing. She doesn't know or at least should wouldn't tell me why she lacked that feeling. Certainly wasn't easy to hear.


That`s what MMSL will teach you.

It`s not about being "someone you`re not" it`s about giving to your wife the things she herself doesn`t realize she needs.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Lack of trust and alcohol aren't a good mix, OP. I would lose the alcohol immediately as you need a clear mind to deal with all of this.

You don't seem too keen on MC but, frankly, without some form of 'intervention,' I don't know how your trust issues can be resolved. Somewhere down the line you and your W lost the deep bond that you once had, and you both need to find that connection again.

What your wife did to you was disgraceful and, IMO, until that whole affair is put to rest once and for all, there's going to be a disconnect between you. It seems to me that there are a number of unanswered questions here, and they need to be answered in order for you to feel comfortable with your W again.

In a situation like this, OP, I really do think that MC is worth a try. Time to get all those unanswered questions out from under the carpet, and have a clean sweep in the presence of an unbiased third party.


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## username101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Does MC work for everybody, or a good percentage of people? What do I look for in a MC? I may go alone at first, but is that a sign of weakness to my wife?

Reading more into it, I see that it is about bettering yourself. I haven't finished but when I do I'm sure I'll have some questions. I can't figure out of I'm an Alpha or a Beta or what percentage of either.

Physically, I've put on some weight. I developed sleep apnea. I started back at the gym 2 years ago and go through my ups and downs as far as exercise vs work. I'm going to try and put some of my work on hold and spend more time at the gym.

My clothes are boring, I'm not a fashionable person. I don't know what looks good together. If I have to wear a suit, I have a ton to choose from, just nothing special. Regular work days though, I'm a jeans and shirt kind of guy. She's more into the fashion. Maybe it's time to get in shape to get some new clothes.

Maybe I haven't read far enough yet but who did you all figure out where you needed to work on?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Something like this knocks our self-esteem big time, and self-care is a good way of helping to restore it. The gym is a good idea, and perhaps brightening up your wardrobe with some new clothes is another - *for you*. This is about making *you* feel better about yourself, OP.

Regarding MC: If you have a toothache, you go to the dentist - so I don't see how seeking professional help for a serious problem in your marriage could be seen as a weakness by your wife. You would be trying to fix something rather than letting it decay and losing it... Personally, I would see it as a sign of strength.

You might want to ask your GP for the names of a few good MCs in your area.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Your goal for self-improvement is NOT for her benefit but yours and yours only, if she becomes strongly attracted to you that is just simply a side effect NOT the purpose. *Your self-improvement transcends everything, including your marriage.*


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> I wished my wife was as honest and open as yours seemed to be. It is painful but man you got a lot from her in a short period of time. For most of us we don't get it at all.
> 
> I


I agree with Thorburn. Man I thought I was a harda*s, but there are posters on this thread who want this woman's scalp on a stick. From my vantage point she has been direct and honest with her husband, has cut off contact with the OM and at least on the surface seems to be remorseful. Yes, she has serious issues and low self esteem, and seems scared she is going to lose her husband and marriage. I can't see what more she cando to show she is sorry and wants to change. So what do you people want? Would it please you if we set up some stocks in the town square and pillory her? Let little kids throw rotten veggies at her?.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Consider downloading, printing and reading a free copy of Dr Rober Glover's ebook *No More Mr Nice Guy*.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I agree with Thorburn. Man I thought I was a harda*s, but there are posters on this thread who want this woman's scalp on a stick. From my vantage point she has been direct and honest with her husband, has cut off contact with the OM and at least on the surface seems to be remorseful. Yes, she has serious issues and low self esteem, and seems scared she is going to lose her husband and marriage. I can't see what more she cando to show she is sorry and wants to change. So what do you people want? Would it please you if we set up some stocks in the town square and pillory her? Let little kids throw rotten veggies at her?.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with you bandit. I think it is a good start as well. But I am also convinced that there will be more to it though.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

cpacan said:


> I agree with you bandit. I think it is a good start as well. But I am also convinced that there will be more to it though.


Of course there is more that happened that she won't tell him. We all experienced this to some level. Thorburn's wife seems to have selective amnesia about her past affair details and he is prpearing for a future knowing he will never know the full truth. I only know maybe a quarter of the details about my STBXW's affair. Sometimes you have to just suck it up, accept what you have and move forward. I think this is what the OP needs to resign himself to. If he can't then he needs to tell her so and prepare for D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I did not want to know the full truth.

S**t! I wanted no details at all. 

Did they have sex? Almost certainly. 

But I did not want to know.

Was that the right way to handle it? For me, it was.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

username101 said:


> Work helped me stay sane for a few hours during the day. There were times I wanted to lash out, but kept my cool. I knew I would be able to do something else, more constructive with the anger. It went into work.
> 
> No drinking, which was my painkiller for a few days/week.
> 
> ...


I do believe in changing yourself. The way I see it if you are not changing for the better you're changing for the worse. Nothing stays the same.

Do you still date your wife? Do you still romance her? Many, many men fail at this after marriage.


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