# Men get the short end of the stick in marital sex



## 19rcrouse67 (12 mo ago)

Why is so much emphasis put into making sure men can achieve and maintain erection, when most women after children and that have been with the same partner for an extended period of time have minimal to no sexual desire? Spend time developing something for women that actually works, in increasing her sexual appetite.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Because such a large part of male performance is mechanical, and so much of women's emotional/mental. If men would spend more time understanding the mental part of it, problem solved. The nice thing about that knowledge is...the solution is literally in your hands. If you do the things, and it still doesn't work, then the power is still in your hands...you can divorce/end the relationship. No doctor can fix that for you.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

I worked with a guy that used to tell us all the time.." The future of your children is in your hands " ✋


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

19rcrouse67 said:


> Why is so much emphasis put into making sure men can achieve and maintain erection, when most women after children and that have been with the same partner for an extended period of time have minimal to no sexual desire? Spend time developing something for women that actually works, in increasing her sexual appetite.


@Inside_Looking_Out has a great answer and points!! And I also want to add that another reason is that when most men cannot perform, they want and seek out solutions to fix it....however, when women lose their desire, they often don't care or want to fix it, because they feel content with their relationships without sex. 

There ARE things that women can take to stimulate and maintain sexual desire...but they aren't going to work as solutions if no one is seeking them or feeling like there is any problem.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

19rcrouse67 said:


> Why is so much emphasis put into making sure men can achieve and maintain erection, when most women after children and that have been with the same partner for an extended period of time have minimal to no sexual desire? Spend time developing something for women that actually works, in increasing her sexual appetite.


Wtf.

You do know that millions of men either aren't married, or aren't married to a woman who has had children, or aren’t married to women who don't want them, right?

What a limited perspective you have if you think most men are in the predicament of being in piss poor marriages. 

Millions of men are neither married nor in a ****ty one.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

19rcrouse67 said:


> Why is so much emphasis put into making sure men can achieve and maintain erection, when most women after children and that have been with the same partner for an extended period of time have minimal to no sexual desire? Spend time developing something for women that actually works, in increasing her sexual appetite.


I haven’t found that to be true, thankfully. Realize there’s 4 billion of them on the planet. They don’t all dislike sex after kids.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> most men cannot perform, they want and seek out solutions to fix it....however, when women lose their desire, they often don't care or want to fix it, because they feel content with their relationships without sex.


This is key. A man’s self-worth is highly dependent on his performance, in every respect. How well we please our women, how much money we make, how heavy we can bench press. Most of us aren’t blessed with looks, stature, or intellect so we have to work overtime all of our lives trying to “measure up”.


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## 19rcrouse67 (12 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> @Inside_Looking_Out has a great answer and points!! And I also want to add that another reason is that when most men cannot perform, they want and seek out solutions to fix it....however, when women lose their desire, they often don't care or want to fix it, because they feel content with their relationships without sex.
> 
> There ARE things that women can take to stimulate and maintain sexual desire...but they aren't going to work as solutions if no one is seeking them or feeling like there is any problem.


I have volunteered to do anything she wants, the problem is she really doesn't want. She has orgasm 99% of the time, but I always feel like we only have sex for me and I don't feel she has any desire. She masturbate at least once a month so I know the feeling does come, just way too infrequently.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

19rcrouse67 said:


> I have volunteered to do anything she wants, the problem is she really doesn't want. She has orgasm 99% of the time, but I always feel like we only have sex for me and I don't feel she has any desire. She masturbate at least once a month so I know the feeling does come, just way too infrequently.


It's common knowledge that women in general have lower sex drives than men, in general. She's not broken. She's a woman.


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## 19rcrouse67 (12 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's common knowledge that women in general have lower sex drives than men, in general. She's not broken. She's a woman.


No, I disagree, women use that as a crutch to deny their husband's and wonder why men cheat. If something really tastes good don't you crave it? So if it feels good and your partner addresses you as yo wish, shouldn't you crave that as well? I would orally pleasure my wife at the drop of a hat and she achieves orgasm this way. Yet she only ALLOWS this act about once a month. And don't ask for anything in return, I will buy her any sex toy she wants and not bother her during her alone times and use them on her when she asks. I believe withdrawal of sex is just a way over time that women have devised to control us.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

19rcrouse67 said:


> She has orgasm 99% of the time, but I always feel like we only have sex for me and I don't feel she has any desire.


You have to depersonalize it and not take it personal. She is who she is, and your feeling like whatever wont change anything. Worse, she might decide she needs to “fake it”, though hopefully not.

Changes come to every life. Could be any number of contributors, most of which you have no control over and can’t “fix”. Bottom line, she isnt you and her motor runs on totslly different circuits than yours.

Sorry, that is just how life is. Sometimes its great, sometimes it sucks


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

19rcrouse67 said:


> Why is so much emphasis put into making sure men can achieve and maintain erection,


It is men who place emphasis on this. We are performance oriented. And want to perform like we did at 20 when we are 70.

There are a lot of women better pleased with hand and mouth work than PIV. There was an old joke about guy impressing women at a party by licking his eyebrows.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

19rcrouse67 said:


> No, I disagree, women use that as a crutch to deny their husband's and wonder why men cheat. If something really tastes good don't you crave it? So if it feels good and your partner addresses you as yo wish, shouldn't you crave that as well? I would orally pleasure my wife at the drop of a hat and she achieves orgasm this way. Yet she only ALLOWS this act about once a month. And don't ask for anything in return, I will buy her any sex toy she wants and not bother her during her alone times and use them on her when she asks. I believe withdrawal of sex is just a way over time that women have devised to control us.


Well, you're not a woman and I am, so I'm going with my take on it. Women aren't driven by testosterone. They're not sitting around thinking about orgasms all day. You may or may not be right about your wife's motives, but you are wrong to think that is at all why women are that way. They simply don't care as much as men because they don't have a testosterone fueled penis. And when they are running hot, it's not for strictly physical reasons. It's more emotional. Some couples are lucky to keep that going and many are not. Fact of life. Well known by all but the more recent porn-brainwashed generations.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> It is men who place emphasis on this. We are performance oriented. And want to perform like we did at 20 when we are 70.
> 
> There are a lot of women better pleased with hand and mouth work than PIV. There was an old joke about guy impressing women at a party by licking his eyebrows.


You have never met one of the women in my family.😋😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

19rcrouse67 said:


> No, I disagree, women use that as a crutch to deny their husband's and wonder why men cheat. If something really tastes good don't you crave it? So if it feels good and your partner addresses you as yo wish, shouldn't you crave that as well? I would orally pleasure my wife at the drop of a hat and she achieves orgasm this way. Yet she only ALLOWS this act about once a month. And don't ask for anything in return, I will buy her any sex toy she wants and not bother her during her alone times and use them on her when she asks. I believe withdrawal of sex is just a way over time that women have devised to control us.


You're dynamic is the problem. I don't put up with how you are being treated so I am treated far better.

You get what you earn my friend.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I believe that Viagra was found by accident and was really developed for hypertension


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

19rcrouse67 said:


> Why is so much emphasis put into making sure men can achieve and maintain erection, when most women after children and that have been with the same partner for an extended period of time have minimal to no sexual desire? Spend time developing something for women that actually works, in increasing her sexual appetite.


Trying to be serious about the question.

A man's ego is a serious element to this question. ED, PE, all have a psychological factor. A man's biggest sex organ is between his ears and not between his legs. Men's ego and self image is tied up with being "potent" lovers of women they care for.

Another element is that ED can be a sign of serious medical problems and so there is a valid concern that when the plumbing isn't working, that a man should get to the doctor and get things checked out and fixed.

Furthermore, there is the money or market aspect. Men tend to spend more on prostitutes, strip clubs, porn than women. So there is more of a "market" and chance to make money on furthering men's sexual urges than the market for women. Although, there seems to be a lot of money that has been made from selling and writing bodice-ripper purple romance novels. I think that men are more willing to spend serious money on things that will "achieve and maintain erections" compared to what women will pay to increase their sexual appetite. 

Maybe there is just a marketing problem and they need to sell things that will increase a woman's sexual appetite to men? However, there is money being spent to develop things to help women; pelvic floor exercise equipment (some even with smart phone aps), porn for women, sex toys (especially vibrators) seem more women oriented, and some THC dosed gummies.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I believe that Viagra was found by accident and was really developed for hypertension


Same with Ciallis


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

19rcrouse67 said:


> I have volunteered to do anything she wants, the problem is she really doesn't want. She has orgasm 99% of the time, but I always feel like we only have sex for me and I don't feel she has any desire. She masturbate at least once a month so I know the feeling does come, just way too infrequently.


OH so this isn't about all women. This is about YOU and maybe your woman. 

I mean I have questions too. Like why so much emphasis on male desire and orgasm when it's almost guaranteed and most women are lucky to hit 50%. I think you are over estimating how often she orgasms which answers the part about it only being for you.

So when's the last time you took her on a date? made her coffee? made her feel that you love her for something other than sex? What's your foreplay game? When does foreplay start for you? Do you recognize the things that turn her off? How much time and effort do you put into pre-sex and sex?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

sokillme said:


> I believe that Viagra was found by accident and was really developed for hypertension


Cialis too. IBoth were intended for pulmonary hypertension. The erectile enhancement was noticed as a side effect. Talk about prospecting for iron and discovering gold.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> This is key. A man’s self-worth is highly dependent on his performance, in every respect. How well we please our women, how much money we make, how heavy we can bench press. Most of us aren’t blessed with looks, stature, or intellect so we have to work overtime all of our lives trying to “measure up”.


This is true. I make sure to always have enough weight on the bar so that it bends. I also did some extra bicep curls today.

As for the OP, I dunno. I have never had any issues with ED. I have had problems with PE on occasion that sometimes were super embarrassing so I fixed it. If I end up with ED issues I’m going to the doctor and getting it figured out.

I think part of it is that the man is supposed to be the sexual pursuer and it’s kind of tough to do that if your package is busted.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

19rcrouse67 said:


> I believe withdrawal of sex is just a way over time that *women have devised to control us.*


It is illogical to expand the specific to the general. My goodness, there isn't a nefarious plot for one gender to control the other. We really really like getting together with one another, that is why the planet is now crowded with 8 billion people.

We can only be controlled to the extent that we facilitate it. We are only "victims" in our minds.

You haven't found the key for your wife's lock. Maybe you never will. Maybe at this point there is too much water under the bridge. But usually IMO, these things have more to do with a couple's dynamic outside of the bedroom than anything to do with anything in the bedroom. Sexual technique, toys, or anything else are just the methods, but there has to be a loving emotional bond first.. 

A couple wife and I know very well. He constantly belittles her IN PUBLIC at every opportunity to the point I finally told him it was intolerable for us to be around them when he was doing that. So what kind of romantic life would you suppose she is interested in? No kindness, no warmth, no romance. I would think ( but don't know ) their bedroom assumed the freezing point years ago.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think part of it is that the man is supposed to be the sexual pursuer and it’s kind of tough to do that if your package is busted.


It can virtually always be fixed. Worst case it is a bionic implant that costs as much as a sports car. Just depends how badly the guy wants it fixed. In all honesty, I would likely buy the sports car if it came to that choice. I get chills just thinking about the operation.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Men really just need to stop getting married. I see that as the only way to solve this inevitable problem...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Men really just need to stop getting married. I see that as the only way to solve this inevitable problem...


Men need to choose the woman they marry more carefully IMO. I have been married for a very long time. Our intimacy is as robust as it ever was. We still enjoy one another a great deal. So the problem may be prevalent but it isn't inevitable.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> It can virtually always be fixed. Worst case it is a bionic implant that costs as much as a sports car. Just depends how badly the guy wants it fixed. In all honesty, I would likely buy the sports car if it came to that choice. I get chills just thinking about the operation.


They knock you out right? It’s more about the rehab. Ow…


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> They knock you out right? It’s more about the rehab. Ow…


The thought of them gutting it like a fish and replacing with silicone means being knocked out isnt enough for me. It is also irreversible so if you get an infection you are SOL.

At my age it ain’t happening no matter what.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> The thought of them gutting it like a fish and replacing with silicone means being knocked out isnt enough for me. It is also irreversible so if you get an infection you are SOL.
> 
> At my age it ain’t happening no matter what.


You’re starting to convince me.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> Men need to choose the woman they marry more carefully IMO. I have been married for a very long time. Our intimacy is as robust as it ever was. We still enjoy one another a great deal. So the problem may be prevalent but it isn't inevitable.


It is a very lopsided gamble, you sign a contract and there is a 75% chance the other party will dissolve the contract and take the proceeds you invested. If you fall in that 25%, you are a genius. If not, you are a moron that sucks at math.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

19rcrouse67 said:


> I have volunteered to do anything she wants, the problem is she really doesn't want. She has orgasm 99% of the time, but I always feel like we only have sex for me and I don't feel she has any desire. She masturbate at least once a month so I know the feeling does come, just way too infrequently.



"I have volunteered to do anything she wants" = I harassed my wife to tell me what it will take for me to make her volunteer to have sex..

"She has orgasm 99% of the time, but..." = I want her to not only want to have the amount of sex I want, but I want her to pretend that it's for her and not me so I won't feel bad about harassing her to have sex.

"She masturbates at least once a month" = I know this because I have also interrogated her about her own personal private time, which I feel is not fair that she has without me.


Okay, I know I am being harsh. But you didn't come on here lamenting that you feel like your wife might be feeling lonely, or emotionally disconnected from you. You didn't come on here to ask advice on how to rekindle feelings of love, or how to come up with new ways to show your wife that you care for her. You didn't come on here saying that you have learned her love languages and that she is not receiving them the way you hoped. You came on here complaining that you want your wife to perform like a sex robot and have sex as much and as enthusiastically as *you* perceive the 'right amount' of sex to be. 

If we (the ladies on here), can pick up on the attitude you have about it, no matter how well you think you are hiding it, I can guess your wife picked up on it long ago. I bet she has already emotionally disassociated from you in order to protect her feelings and mental health...and that is why you are not getting the porn star sex you are hoping for.

And yes, there are sex starved marriages where the wife really has been cold and unfair and has no business being in a relationship. But it sounds like your wife does indeed want sex...but likely wants it with a partner that might be a bit more intuitive to her needs.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> Cialis too. IBoth were intended for pulmonary hypertension. The erectile enhancement was noticed as a side effect. Talk about prospecting for iron and discovering gold.


I hear Barry White was also found by accident as well, he was originally intended to be an R&B singer, no one had any idea he would have that effect on women.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> Cialis too. IBoth were intended for pulmonary hypertension. The erectile enhancement was noticed as a side effect. Talk about prospecting for iron and discovering gold.


Yes that was a lottery winning discovery. Pulmonary hypertension only makes it so you can't oxygenate and die, but viagra and cialis et al makes limp willys hard again. Talk about one of the greatest incidental discoveries ever!!!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> . A man’s self-worth is highly dependent on his performance, in every respect. How well we please our women, how much money we make, how heavy we can bench press.


I had to chuckle when I read this. I have had a number of women tell me that there have been guys that have hit on them on dating apps and websites and some of these guys actually lead off by telling them what their "bench" is. 

I'm sure these ladies couldn't tear their panties off quick enough once they found out what these guys were benching LOL


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

19rcrouse67 said:


> If something really tastes good don't you crave it?


Only if you are hungry.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Men really just need to stop getting married. I see that as the only way to solve this inevitable problem...


There used to be a vendor here called Dad Starting Over. He's a guy that has written some books and has a podcast about married and divorced men trying to revive their sex lives and he pretty much came out and said that if a guy wants to have a high-octane, passionate and porno like sex life forever, he is basically going to have to eschew marriage/LTR and never have kids or date any one person for more than a year or two because the NRE will inevitably wear off. 

DSO was saying that kind of tonque-in-cheek to show the folly of thinking that you can be married for 40 years and still have the sex life you did when you were first dating as 20somethings. But there actually is a lot of truth to it. 

If some guy values high octane sex more than home and family and stability, then yes, he should probably just stick to remaining single and swapping out women every couple years once the NRE starts to wear off. 

It's kind of like cars. If you really value a shiny new car that runs well, doesn't break down, is still under warranty and always has that new car smell, then you are better off leasing because after a few years things are going to start to break down and that new car smell is going to wear off no matter how well you maintain and take car of the car. 

And there is no aftermarket extended warranty on NRE.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

I think the op has a point but badly targeted. It should be high drive people get the dirty end of the stick if the low drive partner is a selfish person which after reading a lot on here it appears that a lot of low drive people are.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Hi oldshirt, with respect your last post appears to be a bit defeatist. It can be turned around.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

19rcrouse67 said:


> No, I disagree, women use that as a crutch to deny their husband's and wonder why men cheat. If something really tastes good don't you crave it? So if it feels good and your partner addresses you as yo wish, shouldn't you crave that as well? I would orally pleasure my wife at the drop of a hat and she achieves orgasm this way. Yet she only ALLOWS this act about once a month. And don't ask for anything in return, I will buy her any sex toy she wants and not bother her during her alone times and use them on her when she asks. I believe withdrawal of sex is just a way over time that women have devised to control us.


No it's not a control mechanism. If men are being controlled by their wife's sexual response, those are chains that the men have shackled themselves to himself. 

No, the women's decline in spontaneous desire in a long term relationship is real. It's not something intentional or of devious intent. And it's not something that many of them are consciously aware of or understand all that well themselves. 
Their sexuality does not go away and I personally do not believe the notion that women have "less" sex drive at all. But rather their sexuality changes pretty significantly in long term, monogamous marriage,,,, especially after kids come along. 

A man's sexuality is largely governed by spontaneous desire and it remains pretty constantly high with a slow decline after he has been in a long term relationship for a long time and then some further slow decline when gets older. His body is full of testosterone and his sexuality is an old hot water heater with a big tank full of 120 degree water where the heater is always on. 

After a year or two in a monogamous relationship, a woman's level of spontaneous desire will start to drop precipitously and fall off a cliff into the abyss when kids come along. 

But it doesn't actually go away, it shifts to responsive desire to where she must be aroused and stimulated for the desire to kick in. 

The once a month sex/masturbation that you are describing is ovulation related where her body gets her ready to conceive and her hormones spike to make her more sexually primed. 

If she is spanking during her ovulation instead of engaging in sex with you, that is likely an attraction or relationship issue to where she is either resentful towards you or you have become sexually unattractive to her for whatever reason such as weight gain, lack of proper hygiene/grooming, lazy etc Often relationship issues can interfer as well such as her having resentments or emotional disconnect from you. Or her attractions could be towards another man but that is a whole other topic that no evidence of has been mentioned. 

My suggestion is to learn more about responsive desire and that works and how to illicit a response, as well as learn more about women's changing sexual dynamics within long term relationships. The podcaster Dr Psych Mom has a lot of good articles and podcasts about that topic.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> There used to be a vendor here called Dad Starting Over. He's a guy that has written some books and has a podcast about married and divorced men trying to revive their sex lives and he pretty much came out and said that if a guy wants to have a high-octane, passionate and porno like sex life forever, he is basically going to have to eschew marriage/LTR and never have kids or date any one person for more than a year or two because the NRE will inevitably wear off.
> 
> DSO was saying that kind of tonque-in-cheek to show the folly of thinking that you can be married for 40 years and still have the sex life you did when you were first dating as 20somethings. But there actually is a lot of truth to it.
> 
> ...


All very well, but it really depends on the frequency.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Kput said:


> Hi oldshirt, with respect your last post appears to be a bit defeatist. It can be turned around.


It does seem sad doesn't it. But it's the truth. It would be a rare thing for a man to be MORE excited about having sex with the same woman 20 years into the relationship than the first week of the relationship. I think it would be more akin to a unicorn sighting really. But that is the truth of it (for men and women really). The new wears off. And if a person values the 'new' more than anything else, more than stability, more than connection, more than monogamy...then there is just no hope for the relationship. 

Its up to that person to know their values and be open with their partner about that. I know I have quoted this before...but I will again, because it's sobering and true. "Show me the most beautiful woman in the world, and I will show you the man that is tired of her." Unless you actively work to combat that (both partners), it's just the truth of the world.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> Hi oldshirt, with respect your last post appears to be a bit defeatist. It can be turned around.


I don't think it's defeatist at all. I think it is simply a cosmic truth. Over a 30 year period who is going to have more high-energy, wild monkey sex, a married man who has been with one woman and a few kids for 30 years or a bachelor who is out playing the field and spinning plates and never being with one woman for more than a year or two?

I am not saying that one lifestyle is "better" than the other. But on the whole, the guy that is getting with new partners every year or two is going to have a higher level of wild monkey sex over time than a guy with one woman and raising a home and family. 

Can a long term marital sex life be improved at various points of the marriage? Of course!

Can it be "turned around" and be the hot monkey sex of a new relationship of people in their 20s like the early stages of their relationship?? That's a different story. 

Millions of people have good, functional marital sex lives for decades. They may even have sex lives that they consider of more quality and deeper satisfaction than in earlier stages. 

But as far as high-octane, porno sex of someone new in NRE?? Not likely. 

But it's a matter of values and what you value more. If you value wild monkey sex and the rush of NRE hormones and passion, you're probably better off staying out of long term monogamous relationships and definately better off not ever having children (unless you just want to pay child support to the baby mommy and keep banging other chicks) and sacrificing having a long, monogamous partnership and home and family. 

But if someone values home and family life and stability more than continuous porno sex forever, then they'll sacrifice the wild monkey sex. 

There's going to be rewards vs sacrifices either way so it comes down to what do you value most and what are you most willing to sacrifice.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> All very well, but it really depends on the frequency.


What do you mean?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Men really just need to stop getting married. I see that as the only way to solve this inevitable problem...


Don't forget my suggestion that marriage licenses have to be renewed every five years. That way, women who have gone through The Great Decline will see the likelihood of a disappearing paycheck and will get amorous at least for a while.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Going from being a hd spontaneous woman to ld and responsive has to be accepted inbut when that also encompasses lack of desire with a "this is only for you" attitude with previous sex acts removed imo if you are then cheated on you have no one but yourself to blame.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

He has a point, my wife was ld but at least sex was frequent and I was rarely rejected


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

IA That is


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Kput said:


> IA That is


Huh?


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

My apologies, In Abstentia point about frequency


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> What do you mean?


What I mean - and I'm replying to everybody - is that most men in long term marriages know that the frequency will drop. But it has to be an acceptable frequency. What's acceptable? Maybe once a week? Once a month is NOT acceptable to me. We were twice a month at the end and, although the frequency wasn't ideal, at least the sex was good. It's when you hear people saying they are having sex once every six months that you have to start wondering.


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## thenerdguy (1 mo ago)

I remember way back when my Wife and I had young kids, she told me to my face she had no desire for me and that sex was a chore for her. That hurt and I didnt understand why. But I figured it out over sometime. Women are not like men, there is a mental part about it for them that even to this day I dont have my head around.

In order to fix this problem, I had to adapt and change myself. It wasn't all that hard either. It was just little things. For example I made a list of all the things she would nag about, and made sure those were always done before she got a chance to nag. Then take the load off of her, clean the house, do the dishes, things like that. Pretty much when she goes to bed, you can't leave anything hanging that she might be thinking about. Then there are other things too, like having a hobby and working out, always trying to improve yourself.

After all of that, the desire came back. About 20 years together now and we still got it.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

It can come back and pretty quickly as well, all it took in my case was overhearing a telephone conversation with an adulterous work mate and friend to realise her certainties about our relationship were not so certain.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> There used to be a vendor here called Dad Starting Over. He's a guy that has written some books and has a podcast about married and divorced men trying to revive their sex lives and he pretty much came out and said that if a guy wants to have a high-octane, passionate and porno like sex life forever, he is basically going to have to eschew marriage/LTR and never have kids or date any one person for more than a year or two because the NRE will inevitably wear off.
> 
> DSO was saying that kind of tonque-in-cheek to show the folly of thinking that you can be married for 40 years and still have the sex life you did when you were first dating as 20somethings. But there actually is a lot of truth to it.
> 
> ...


Good post.

The value in marriage is purely psychological. There is little security either way. I just don't see the point unless you need the tax break, but it comes at a huge risk.

Men need to wise up and dads need to sit their boys down for some real talk. They are headed for pain, a very good many of them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

thenerdguy said:


> I remember way back when my Wife and I had young kids, she told me to my face she had no desire for me and that sex was a chore for her. That hurt and I didnt understand why. But I figured it out over sometime. Women are not like men, there is a mental part about it for them that even to this day I dont have my head around.
> 
> In order to fix this problem, I had to adapt and change myself. It wasn't all that hard either. It was just little things. For example I made a list of all the things she would nag about, and made sure those were always done before she got a chance to nag. Then take the load off of her, clean the house, do the dishes, things like that. Pretty much when she goes to bed, you can't leave anything hanging that she might be thinking about. Then there are other things too, like having a hobby and working out, always trying to improve yourself.
> 
> After all of that, the desire came back. About 20 years together now and we still got it.


I'm definitely glad your marriage improved and regained health.

The only part I agree with though is for men to work out, have interests and hobbies and improve themselves.

My wife had one slow point in our sex life that was brought on by her listening to a couple of failed church lady wives.

During her pregnancy with our second son (my only biological child) she wanted sex almost up to the point of delivery and could barely wait two weeks after to jump me.

Until the boys left home, I almost never did any chores in the house. She did it all and the boys had some duties as well.

I now do most of the cooking but none of the cleaning.

I'm not challenging your experience but I am challenging that it's universally or even generally common.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Kput said:


> It can come back and pretty quickly as well, all it took in my case was overhearing a telephone conversation with an adulterous work mate and friend to realise her certainties about our relationship were not so certain.


Could you elaborate? This sounds interesting. Educational maybe.


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## thenerdguy (1 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> I'm definitely glad your marriage improved and regained health.
> 
> The only part I agree with though is for men to work out, have interests and hobbies and improve themselves.
> 
> ...


It was a must for me, I had to pitch in and work harder so she would have energy in the evening.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

thenerdguy said:


> It was a must for me, I had to pitch in and work harder so she would have energy in the evening.


Did you both have jobs?

Our dynamic was me bringing the bacon and her cooking it.😉


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> It's kind of like cars. If you really value a shiny new car that runs well, doesn't break down, is still under warranty and always has that new car smell, then you are better off leasing because after a few years things are going to start to break down and that new car smell is going to wear off no matter how well you maintain and take car of the car.


I happen to love the smell of my classic sports car and wouldn't trade it for anything


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. women get the whole "stick" when it comes to sex and sometimes it is short.😋


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I happen to love the smell of my classic sports car and wouldn't trade it for anything


This is getting into Hannibal Lecter territory.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I happen to love the smell of my classic sports car and wouldn't trade it for anything


I've got a classic little Porsche myself and I agree!😁


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## thenerdguy (1 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> Did you both have jobs?
> 
> Our dynamic was me bringing the bacon and her cooking it.😉


Yes we both work.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If she is spanking during her ovulation instead of engaging in sex with you, that is likely an attraction or relationship issue to where she is either resentful towards you or you have become sexually unattractive to her


I was thinking the same thing. Instead of jumping husbands bones she is doing solo. The desire is certainly there but not directed at husband. Any possibility that sone Marriage/Sex Therapy could uncover what is going on between them?


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## kad216 (8 mo ago)

Where does the assertion or implication that all women have this major “emotional/mental” component/hurdle to sex? I see it constantly peddled as if it’s a fact when it’s not. Not all woman work that way, similar to how not all men are high libido/desire. I, personally, have a high libido for a woman and desire sex frequently because it makes me feel emotionally and physically connected to my husband. If we don’t have frequent sex I feel more disconnected and grumpy. I think the women who demand “mental/emotional” fulfillment are going about it the wrong way, and selfishly prioritize their own needs over their husbands needs/wants. Whether they’re willing to recognize it or not. 

I think it’s a bad way to normalize lack of sex in marriage by blaming it on the “mental/emotional” components. Why should a husband have to jump through endless hoops just to have sex with his spouse? Sounds like a sad way to live. If your wife doesn’t want sex with you, doing the dishes or some chores won’t suddenly change her mind or make her want sex. If they’re already willing to disregard your needs/desires and use their “mental/emotion load”, this term always makes me roll my eyes, (because martyrs are insufferable and annoying) when it’s used as an excuse. Funny how it’s always excuses and never suggestions for solutions with the low desire spouses. Clearly they don’t care to fix the so called “problem” if they just make excuses. It’s, at least partly, due to selfishness and unwillingness to change.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

kad216 said:


> Where does the assertion or implication that all women have this major “emotional/mental” component/hurdle to sex? I see it constantly peddled as if it’s a fact when it’s not. Not all woman work that way, similar to how not all men are high libido/desire. I, personally, have a high libido for a woman and desire sex frequently because it makes me feel emotionally and physically connected to my husband. If we don’t have frequent sex I feel more disconnected and grumpy. I think the women who demand “mental/emotional” fulfillment are going about it the wrong way, and selfishly prioritize their own needs over their husbands needs/wants. Whether they’re willing to recognize it or not.
> 
> I think it’s a bad way to normalize lack of sex in marriage by blaming it on the “mental/emotional” components. Why should a husband have to jump through endless hoops just to have sex with his spouse? Sounds like a sad way to live. If your wife doesn’t want sex with you, doing the dishes or some chores won’t suddenly change her mind or make her want sex. If they’re already willing to disregard your needs/desires and use their “mental/emotion load”, this term always makes me roll my eyes, (because martyrs are insufferable and annoying) when it’s used as an excuse. Funny how it’s always excuses and never suggestions for solutions with the low desire spouses. Clearly they don’t care to fix the so called “problem” if they just make excuses. It’s, at least partly, due to selfishness and unwillingness to change.


Thank you.
Now if we could just take your brain, clone it and implant them into our own wives, we wouldn't be so sad and miserable.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> Could you elaborate? This sounds interesting. Educational maybe.


My apologies if this is a thread jack.

CH, as you are aware having commented on it before I have an adulterous work mate/friend.

My wife overheard a phone call with him and another subsequent call where his shenanigans were discussed. My wife asked for details which I supplied and she asked me if I got hit on at work, I answered honestly and said yes, she asked for examples and I again was honest, one example In particular seemed to worry her.

I told her I had never cheated on her which I haven't.

Two nights later she came out of the bathroom in stockings and panties and gave me the first "all the way bj" for many years, the return to hd has continued for six weeks so far with much initiation on her part.

I see it as her certainties about our relationship were shaken


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Kput said:


> My apologies if this is a thread jack.
> 
> CH, as you are aware having commented on it before I have an adulterous work mate/friend.
> 
> ...


A man with options is a lot more attractive to women.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> A man with options is a lot more attractive to women.


Before kids she was ultra hd. It's great that she has returned to bring a real woman.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Being not bring


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Kput said:


> My apologies if this is a thread jack.
> 
> CH, as you are aware having commented on it before I have an adulterous work mate/friend.
> 
> ...


This is helpful and educational. I don't see it as a TJ because it does deal with a wife's sexual desire and one factor that impacts it.

The behavior your wife displayed has been observed many times and studied.

A woman's desire for her man can get revved up by observing that he is also desirable to other women.

Thank you for elaborating!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Kput said:


> Being not bring


I actually like the term "bring" that real woman back.😉


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Others have warned me that it may be temporary but I have reason to be optimistic that it is not because:

Before the kids she was ultra HD and I hope that was her normal level and the ld was an aberration.

She now is a regular and aggressive initiator.

Last weekend when the kids were shopping with their grandparents and we were talking she said with a grin will you shut up and **** me, this was something she used to say to end an argument. Happy memories with, I hope, many new ones to be made.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Kput said:


> My apologies if this is a thread jack.
> 
> CH, as you are aware having commented on it before I have an adulterous work mate/friend.
> 
> ...


Another aspect is your wife realizing another woman is hot for you heats up your wife’s interest. She knows you are attractivr to other women.

its competition. It is another aspect of man keeping himself in shape and dressed well. In public, wife will notice attention other women are paying. The husband may not notice but a wife will. Is she walking closer with you in public, holding your arm, etc?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

The greatest factor in women’s sex drive is the length of the relationship. Not how you treat her, not whether she orgasms. Over time with the same man, her drive goes down.

* Women's sex drives gradually ebb over time, say the authors of a new study, while a man's stays at around the same level.

In fact, on a desirability scale, women's yearnings decreased steadily with every passing month of a relationship, making it possible to gauge a woman's sex drive just by looking at a union's duration.

The study, published last month by the Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, goes some way to addressing a subject area that is relatively unchartered and yet - as many a couple may attest to - is believed to form a key part of relationships.

170 men's and women's desire levels were monitored and rated on the Female Sexual Function Index. Participants, all in heterosexual relationships ranging from one month to nine years in length, were all undergraduates at the University of Guelph in Ontario, Canada, where the author's lead researcher, Sarah Murray, is based.

Ranging from 1.2 to 6.0, the scale quantifies sex drive so accurately that Ms Murray and her research partner Robin Milhausen found 'specifically, for each additional month women in this study were in a relationship with their partner, their sexual desire decreased by 0.02 on the Female Sexual Function Index'.

The findings were indicative enough to lead the authors to believe that relationship duration is a better predictor of sexual desire than satisfaction in bed or overall relationship health, reports Live Science.

The study contradicts some beliefs that both men's and women's sex drives decline over the months and years.

Instead, a sustained desire by men is thought to be driven by the evolutionary need for men to produce offspring while women turn their focus to child-rearing, says Live Science. *










How a woman's sex drive declines over time - and a man's stays as strong - FacenFacts


A happy, healthy relationship and sex life are all very well, but when it comes to measuring a woman's sexual desire, all scientists really need to know is how long a couple has been together. Wo




www.facenfacts.com


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

kad216 said:


> Where does the assertion or implication that all women have this major “emotional/mental” component/hurdle to sex? I see it constantly peddled as if it’s a fact when it’s not. Not all woman work that way, similar to how not all men are high libido/desire. I, personally, have a high libido for a woman and desire sex frequently because it makes me feel emotionally and physically connected to my husband. If we don’t have frequent sex I feel more disconnected and grumpy. I think the women who demand “mental/emotional” fulfillment are going about it the wrong way, and selfishly prioritize their own needs over their husbands needs/wants. Whether they’re willing to recognize it or not.
> 
> I think it’s a bad way to normalize lack of sex in marriage by blaming it on the “mental/emotional” components. Why should a husband have to jump through endless hoops just to have sex with his spouse? Sounds like a sad way to live. If your wife doesn’t want sex with you, doing the dishes or some chores won’t suddenly change her mind or make her want sex. If they’re already willing to disregard your needs/desires and use their “mental/emotion load”, this term always makes me roll my eyes, (because martyrs are insufferable and annoying) when it’s used as an excuse. Funny how it’s always excuses and never suggestions for solutions with the low desire spouses. Clearly they don’t care to fix the so called “problem” if they just make excuses. It’s, at least partly, due to selfishness and unwillingness to change.


Roll your eyes all you desire, but yes, it's true for many women. I would never say ALL women, because when I was younger, I didn't need the higher levels of attention. I am a relatively high drive sexual partner myself. But, as the relationship goes on, it's true...your partner of 20+ years rolling over in bed and simply saying, "Hey, wanna do it during the commercials?" is just not likely to rev anyone's engine the same as that same partner taking the time to send a sexy message or go out for a night on the town. I am not sure why anyone would think that is jumping through hoops. It's no different than a man hoping his wife of 20+ years would take care of herself, wear a skimpy outfit or flirt, instead of frumping around the house in a moo-moo.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

> After a year or two in a monogamous relationship, a woman's level of spontaneous desire will start to drop precipitously and fall off a cliff into the abyss when kids come along.


That's not my experience inclusive of two marriages with kids who came along. With sexual frequency not diminishing in either marriage, both before or after having kids.

Now I know you and some other guys , found their sex lives changed with the coming of children, yet that certainly isn't a universal experience at all. I've been with a few women who were pregnant, nursing children, had toddlers etc. Inclusive of the whole lot with my wife and ex-wife, yet the sex that I shared remained wanton, lustful and plentiful as well throughout such things.

At the end of the day not all women close shop at all, with having babies and raising kids. With some of them even champing at the bit, to get their sex itch scratched, through pregnancy and as soon as possible post the babies being born. So much so that waiting the recommended time was ignored somewhat in my marriages.

Now sure what you say is true for some relationships, yet it also isn't true for others. And on Dr Psych whatever her name is, she sees people with marital problems. So she isn't seeing people like my wife and I, because we love ****ing each other a lot, 'cause it's fun and exciting.

Seriously until I started reading about such things, I didn't know that marital sex waned for many couples over time. Yet I now know it does for some, yet by the same token, it also doesn't for others.

And let us not forget that men also contribute to this waning. I mean my wife has read some of the tales of woe here on TAM, and she is convinced that she would also be avoiding sex as well, if she was in in most of those marriages.



> But it doesn't actually go away, it shifts to responsive desire to where she must be aroused and stimulated for the desire to kick in.


Except for when it doesn't go like that.

My wife often initiates, and flirts, doing such things like exposing herself to me, bent over something or with her legs spread etc, amongst a myriad of other things, that she frequently does to let me know she wants me to **** her. This will happen when we're at home, while we're shopping, in the car, well just about anywhere and anytime really if there is an opportunity and she is frisky. And she's been at it, all while I have been with her, albeit there was a time she didn't always like chatting about sex, 'cause she finds talking about it a bit dull, yet the practical side of things she's keen on it.

I sometimes initiates, she sometimes initiates, I sometimes turn her down and she sometimes turns me down. Yet we still manage to **** each other often at mostly 6-9x a week, almost every week, through years on and on etc.



oldshirt said:


> I don't think it's defeatist at all. I think it is simply a cosmic truth. Over a 30 year period who is going to have more high-energy, wild monkey sex, a married man who has been with one woman and a few kids for 30 years or a bachelor who is out playing the field and spinning plates and never being with one woman for more than a year or two?


I've shared way more high energy, wild monkey sex as a married man, with one woman and a couple of kids for over 26½ years. Than most bachelors. Inclusive of many bachelors who are out there spinning plates as well have had for the long haul.

Plus not every woman shuts shop sexually, over experiencing cancer, or menopause, or having a full-time career, while raising kids and all the rest. And I know this because I am still frequently banging one of those women, in all sorts of ways, who has been through all of that and more.

So it's not a cosmic truth at all.



> I am not saying that one lifestyle is "better" than the other. But on the whole, the guy that is getting with new partners every year or two is going to have a higher level of wild monkey sex over time than a guy with one woman and raising a home and family.


As someone who has enjoyed experiencing both lifestyles in my time. I have found that the wilder monkey sex has been with the women I have been married to.

Now sure I have experienced a range of tremendous shared sexual delights, with plenty of different women. With some being keen to do some things, even lots of things.

Yet the whole box and dice set of things that my wife and ex-wife did and do (regarding my wife), both before we were married and while married, has exceeded any other single woman that I have been with, in combined types of activities shared.

Plus with that considerable variety, also being combined with tremendous frequency and enthusiasm, with and from my wife, through getting closer to 27 years. That experience stands out as substantially more higher level, wild monkey sex, than most long term single men are likely to ever experience.



> Can a long term marital sex life be improved at various points of the marriage? Of course!


Yes it can, if that's what all involved want to happen.



> Can it be "turned around" and be the hot monkey sex of a new relationship of people in their 20s like the early stages of their relationship?? That's a different story.


Not easily and most often probably not in any extraordinary ways. Which is why sustaining it throughout and enhancing it further as things go along, is the better way to go.



> Millions of people have good, functional marital sex lives for decades. They may even have sex lives that they consider of more quality and deeper satisfaction than in earlier stages.
> 
> But as far as high-octane, porno sex of someone new in NRE?? Not likely.


Au contraire.

As always I frequently share lots of high octane "porno" sex, and I've even got lots of pictures and some videos of it as well.

And let us not forget that lots of non-married men, aren't getting to share that kind of sex outside of being married either. And even on fetish websites there are lots of single men lamenting that they can't find women out there in the wild who will do one of the things my wife frequently shares with me, let alone the smorgasbord of other things she enthusiastically shares.

Long term relationship, short term relationship, it doesn't matter. If someone gets bored by their partner the desire falls off a cliff.

At the end of the day, try not to be boring.

So long term relationships can rock for the long haul sexually, it all depends upon the people in them. And on that, it isn't one size fits all, since we are all not exactly the same.



> But if someone values home and family life and stability more than continuous porno sex forever, then they'll sacrifice the wild monkey sex.
> 
> There's going to be rewards vs sacrifices either way so it comes down to what do you value most and what are you most willing to sacrifice.


On the other hand you don't need to or have to sacrifice one for the other if you can have either of those things. Unless you're the kind of man who is boring and drinks the wrong Kool-Aid, then you do have to choose presuming one even gets any of those opportunities in the first place.

One thing for sure, men don't have to draw the short end of the stick in marital sex, if they don't want to. Yet in many instances that's up to them, for choosing to contribute to exactly that.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CraigBesuden said:


> The greatest factor in women’s sex drive is the length of the relationship. Not how you treat her, not whether she orgasms. Over time with the same man, her drive goes down.


Except for all of the instances when it doesn't of course. Like with my wife who I have been with for over 26 years.









Sexual Desire and Relationship Duration in Young Men and Women


Sexual desire is often present at the beginning of a romantic relationship. However, research is divided regarding whether, and how, desire is experienced as a relationship progresses. The authors ...



www.tandfonline.com





So they do a study of 170 university students with the oldest being 25 years old and the youngest ones being 18, and that somehow extrapolates to women's sex drives in marriage for the long haul.

Which is hilarious since it's about young people and their relationships that are for the most part very short with their precipitous fall rate being considered in terms of weeks or months rather than years.

Of which when I was a young chap, having sexual relationships with some university students, I usually grew bored of being with them after a few days or weeks, which is mostly why I would dump them. So guys get bored as well, sure maybe not that small sample of 170 young men and women from that limited study, yet make no mistake lots of men get bored as well.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

19rcrouse67 said:


> Why is so much emphasis put into making sure men can achieve and maintain erection


Well it's kind of useful if your wanna proposition a chick by telling her "I've got something to put in you".


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kput said:


> Two nights later she came out of the bathroom in stockings and panties and gave me the first "all the way bj" for many years, the return to hd has continued for six weeks so far with much initiation on her part.
> 
> I see it as her certainties about our relationship were shaken


My wife instead bought a book: Moving on...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Inside_Looking_Out said:


> your partner of 20+ years rolling over in bed and simply saying, "Hey, wanna do it during the commercials?"


Oooh... you have lots of commercials in the US...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Inside_Looking_Out said:


> Roll your eyes all you desire, but yes, it's true for many women. I would never say ALL women, because when I was younger, I didn't need the higher levels of attention. I am a relatively high drive sexual partner myself. But, as the relationship goes on, it's true...your partner of 20+ years rolling over in bed and simply saying, "Hey, wanna do it during the commercials?" is just not likely to rev anyone's engine the same as that same partner taking the time to send a sexy message or go out for a night on the town. I am not sure why anyone would think that is jumping through hoops. It's no different than a man hoping his wife of 20+ years would take care of herself, wear a skimpy outfit or flirt, instead of frumping around the house in a moo-moo.


Because for some women it's not just a sexy message or a nice date night. It really is massive, massive hoop jumping. 

There have been male posters here who work and are the major or only breadwinners, PLUS literally do all of the grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, yard maintenance, all in order so they MIGHT get to have sex occasionally. It's extreme and insane.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Livvie said:


> There have been male posters here who work and are the major or only breadwinners, PLUS literally do all of the grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, yard maintenance, all in order so they MIGHT get to have sex occasionally. It's extreme and insane.


Actually it's extreme and insane for any man to think that being the major breadwinner, and literally doing all the chores in the world for a woman, is going to excite them sexually and get them laid like tile.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Inside_Looking_Out said:


> But, as the relationship goes on, it's true...your partner of 20+ years rolling over in bed and simply saying, "Hey, wanna do it during the commercials?"


And if you want to **** a lot, that's why you don't have a TV in your bedroom.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CraigBesuden said:


> The greatest factor in women’s sex drive is the length of the relationship. Not how you treat her, not whether she orgasms. Over time with the same man, her drive goes down.
> 
> * Women's sex drives gradually ebb over time, say the authors of a new study, while a man's stays at around the same level.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't believe you can make an accurate correlation between the results of sexual desire in 170 college age students and women in general. My limited anecdotal evidence certainly suggests otherwise. At 35 years in my wife's sex drive on that scale should be in negative territory but we have sexual intercourse nearly every day and we are sexually intimate every single day. We have more sex now than when we first started dating, maybe even more than when we first moved in together. 

I don't doubt a persons sexual desire can wane over time, but to suggest it is a straight line function of time is a huge oversimplification.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't believe you can make an accurate correlation between the results of sexual desire in 170 college age students and women in general. My limited anecdotal evidence certainly suggests otherwise. At 35 years in my wife's sex drive on that scale should be in negative territory but we have sexual intercourse nearly every day and we are sexually intimate every single day. We have more sex now than when we first started dating, maybe even more than when we first moved in together.
> 
> I don't doubt a persons sexual desire can wane over time, but to suggest it is a straight line function of time is a huge oversimplification.


I don't think it is a straight line, but I think the more secure a woman is in her relationship, the less she thinks she needs to offer sexually. If that is the case, she would tend to offer more to AP's and men she is trying to get to commit. I suspect that the more attractive the man, the more sexually active she will be within the marriage.

Having said that, what I would take from that for the man, be as physically attractive as you can keep yourself. If nobody is eyeing you, the wife doesn't have to worry and can dial it back. If she feels that there may always be competition and she could lose the man, she will be much more responsive to him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Personal said:


> That's not my experience inclusive of two marriages with kids who came along. With sexual frequency not diminishing in either marriage, both before or after having kids.
> 
> Now I know you and some other guys , found their sex lives changed with the coming of children, yet that certainly isn't a universal experience at all. I've been with a few women who were pregnant, nursing children, had toddlers etc. Inclusive of the whole lot with my wife and ex-wife, yet the sex that I shared remained wanton, lustful and plentiful as well throughout such things.
> 
> ...


I have enough faith in the average TAM reader’s wisdom and intelligence to understand that many things are a general trend rather than an exact description of every single one of the 8 billion people on earth. 

Somewhere out there is a cat that barks and dog that meows, but I think the average TAM’er understands that on average dogs bark and cats meow. 

You are very lucky and fortunate that you and your wife have maintained an exceptional sex life over a long period of time. 

But when people write in here describing their decling sex life, it’s apparent that they are not one of the fortunate exception and outliers, but are part of the general trend. 

(Que in Dirty Harry saying, “…so ask yourself, do you feel lucky?” )


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Because for some women it's not just a sexy message or a nice date night. It really is massive, massive hoop jumping.
> 
> There have been male posters here who work and are the major or only breadwinners, PLUS literally do all of the grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, yard maintenance, all in order so they MIGHT get to have sex occasionally. It's extreme and insane.


And then you have your wife saying... you are doing all of this because you want sex...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> And then you have your wife saying... you are doing all of this because you want sex...


So, stop doing these things and only do your fair share.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Personal said:


> And if you want to **** a lot, that's why you don't have a TV in your bedroom.


I don't have a tv in my bedroom, never would....just using that as an example of how lazy some husbands can be when romancing their wives at some point. My job has exposed me to a lot stories over the years, this is a 'g' rated example to be sure.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> So, stop doing these things and only do your fair share.


I did... made it even worse, but at least my workload halved... it's irrelevant now, though...


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Because for some women it's not just a sexy message or a nice date night. It really is massive, massive hoop jumping.
> 
> There have been male posters here who work and are the major or only breadwinners, PLUS literally do all of the grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, yard maintenance, all in order so they MIGHT get to have sex occasionally. It's extreme and insane.


And the 'chores'; for sex' is an extreme that is also unhealthy. It's no different than the covert contracts discussed in the NMMNG books. Although in those cases, they are not even covert. 

But asking a man to have mental and physical foreplay with their spouse is not an unhealthy request nor are they 'hoops'. The importance of playing to the mental side of a woman's arousal is evident in more cases than just long term marriages. Just look at how many male/female relationships where the '4' dude is with an '8 or a 9 or even a 10' woman. That doesn't only happen when there is $ involved. So many women's sexual response is swayed by how someone makes them feel as opposed to what they see. 

I am not saying that a man can suddenly make a low drive woman into a high drive woman with a few flirty messages...having that expectation would lead to inevitable disaster. But, if your partner is the kind that responds to that, and over the years, you get lazy about it, of course that is going to cause problems. Its going to cause the same kind of problem a man is going to feel when their wife only wants to have duty or pity sex. For a woman that is highly responsive through verbal and mental cues, it's going to feel like the bare minimum when it goes away.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

UAArchangel said:


> I don't think it is a straight line, but I think the more secure a woman is in her relationship, the less she thinks she needs to offer sexually


With the standard disclaimers _NOT ALL WOMEN ARE THE SAME_ I would concur with this statement, in a general sense (within the bell curve), sadly. As per Dr. Psych Mom, I don’t think most women make a conscience decision to do this…. they just… do this.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CraigBesuden said:


> Over time with the same man, her drive goes down


I will only testify from personal experience that is NOT universally true.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't believe you can make an accurate correlation between the results of sexual desire in 170 college age students and women in general. My limited anecdotal evidence certainly suggests otherwise. At 35 years in my wife's sex drive on that scale should be in negative territory but we have sexual intercourse nearly every day and we are sexually intimate every single day. We have more sex now than when we first started dating, maybe even more than when we first moved in together.
> 
> I don't doubt a persons sexual desire can wane over time, but to suggest it is a straight line function of time is a huge oversimplification.


If they studied women ages 18-65, people would say:

“I don’t believe it. Of course sex tends to go down in relationships over time. That’s because they are getting OLDER! Kids, weight gain, menopause, health issues… that’s why it declines. Correlation is not causation. If you limited it to women 18-25, you’d see that relationship length itself is a non-factor.”


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Because for some women it's not just a sexy message or a nice date night. It really is massive, massive hoop jumping.
> 
> There have been male posters here who work and are the major or only breadwinners, PLUS literally do all of the grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, yard maintenance, all in order so they MIGHT get to have sex occasionally. It's extreme and insane.


I think that problem is one where the man does his duties, but she fails to do her duties. I doubt he’s always in the mood to go to work and pay the mortgage, but he does it anyway to keep a roof over her head.

Too many men are unwilling to divorce wives who take and give nothing back. If he stopped working (voluntarily or otherwise), she would bolt.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

gr8ful1 said:


> With the standard disclaimers _NOT ALL WOMEN ARE THE SAME_ I would concur with this statement, in a general sense (within the bell curve), sadly. As per Dr. Psych Mom, I don’t think most women make a conscience decision to do this…. they just… do this.


The problem is not that they don't make a conscious decision to "do this"....it's that many REFUSE to make a conscious decision to STOP doing it, or resolve the issues that make them feel like not doing it.

When people make their partners unhappy because they are refusing to meet their sexual needs, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. When you are partnered with someone like that, your only recourse is to set the boundary that you will NOT be accepting monogamous celibacy, and lay out the options for continuing intimacy. 

Anything less is sending a message that you will accept your partner having full control over your sex life, even if they are willing to hurt you with it.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> It can virtually always be fixed. Worst case it is a bionic implant that costs as much as a sports car. Just depends how badly the guy wants it fixed. In all honesty, I would likely buy the sports car if it came to that choice. I get chills just thinking about the operation.


If it came to it I would get the implant. Pump up the volume!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> The problem is not that they don't make a conscious decision to "do this"....it's that many REFUSE to make a conscious decision to STOP doing it, or resolve the issues that make them feel like not doing it.
> 
> When people make their partners unhappy because they are refusing to meet their sexual needs, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. When you are partnered with someone like that, your only recourse is to set the boundary that you will NOT be accepting monogamous celibacy, and lay out the options for continuing intimacy.
> 
> Anything less is sending a message that you will accept your partner having full control over your sex life, even if they are willing to hurt you with it.


One has to have that difficult conversation with the wife also. 
My wife had preconceived ideas about sex from her first POS hubby. Those ideas did not fit me, I was opposite. 

She was not liberal with sex, she thought if we had sex often I would get bored with her and look elsewhere. Problem was being a guy that feels loved through the physical intimacy, I was feeling pretty danged unloved and uncared for. 

She was in mom mode and forgot about wife mode, sex dropped to 3-4x month. I was in a desert and treating me like I was needy and sex crazed. All about sex. No it is about feeling unloved and like wife does not give a **** about me. 

I started putting up walls and withdrawing to protect myself emotionally. I was preparing to divorce her, I was miserable, she was a bi+ch and being hurtful. Also during this time I told her several times I am not your damned ex husband, I have not done anything wrong. Well I had, I was being the beta nice guy, not very attractive to women.

We finally communicated, she saw I was on my way out. She realized her faults and changed. Sex tripled. Since then our marriage has been the best it has ever been the 26 yrs. She likes sex, we skip a night here and there. She is afraid I will feel smothered by her, and asks me regularly if I feel that way, being one who feels loved by physical, I tell her "Please don't throw me in that briar patch". 

It is just sad to us that she brought her issues from bast marriage into this one. I am opposite from her cheating ex. And I brought my FOO beta guy issue with me and didn't spank her ass when she was being a little bi+ch and tolerated her crap for way too long.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> If it came to it I would get the implant. Pump up the volume!


Yes but you likely have many more miles left before you sleep. I am nearing the end of the roundup, so if the equipment stopped working now I see no point to enduring a major expensive surgery for the short time left. My mouth and hands would still work.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I don't think it's defeatist at all. I think it is simply a cosmic truth. Over a 30 year period who is going to have more high-energy, wild monkey sex, a married man who has been with one woman and a few kids for 30 years or a bachelor who is out playing the field and spinning plates and never being with one woman for more than a year or two?
> 
> I am not saying that one lifestyle is "better" than the other. But on the whole, the guy that is getting with new partners every year or two is going to have a higher level of wild monkey sex over time than a guy with one woman and raising a home and family.
> 
> ...


Not necessarily, wife and my sex life now is more hot and varied than when we met. She says she is ready for the youngest to go to college so we can get freaky whenever and wherever we want. 
Currently in the truck at the lake, on the hood of car at the lake, BJ while driving down road, bent over a log while deer hunting(wonder why we didn't see any deer), told her when kid is out, gonna pull over on side of hwy when in the mood and go at it while traffic is driving by...been married 26 yrs.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> Not necessarily, wife and my sex life now is more hot and varied than when we met. She says she is ready for the youngest to go to college so we can get freaky whenever and wherever we want.
> Currently in the truck at the lake, on the hood of car at the lake, BJ while driving down road, bent over a log while deer hunting(wonder why we didn't see any deer), told her when kid is out, gonna pull over on side of hwy when in the mood and go at it while traffic is driving by...been married 26 yrs.


That’s great and I wish it could be like that for all couples. That would be the ideal. 

But my point is not that all long term couples get a life sentence of a dead bedroom but rather that on average if a guy wants to have high intensity wild monkey sex indefinitely on an ongoing basis, he will most likely better served to have a series of shorter term relationships vs a multi decade one.

You have a great a relationship and sex life but what is unknown here is what would your sex life have been like if instead of being with one woman for 26 years you had been with a wide variety of women and relationships and hook ups over that same period of time. 

As I said above, this is about values. What do you value you more, stability and home and family and commitment? 

Or wild monkey sex with a variety of partners and a variety of different scenarios and environments?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> And then you have your wife saying... you are doing all of this because you want sex...


I say no, I can not do a dang thing and I still want sex. Thing is, how goes the sex, so goes the marriage......


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> That’s great and I wish it could be like that for all couples. That would be the ideal.
> 
> But my point is not that all long term couples get a life sentence of a dead bedroom but rather that on average if a guy wants to have high intensity wild monkey sex indefinitely on an ongoing basis, he will most likely better served to have a series of shorter term relationships vs a multi decade one.
> 
> ...


Both with same partner. 
Guys to often ask, I used to, now I say,😜 "Get on the bed and get that ass in the air!" She says, 😍❤‍🔥"Yes daddy"

Who ever talked about asking to do it during commercial break, hell no! You grab her by the ankles and pull her across the bed and pull those panties off, (wife's case, she sleeps in buff) while telling her you are about to do to her in explicit detail.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> That’s great and I wish it could be like that for all couples. That would be the ideal.
> 
> But my point is not that all long term couples get a life sentence of a dead bedroom but rather that on average if a guy wants to have high intensity wild monkey sex indefinitely on an ongoing basis, he will most likely better served to have a series of shorter term relationships vs a multi decade one.
> 
> ...


Would have been fairly meaningless sex. As I am a male that has strong emotional connection with sex partners. The more in tune I get with a partner over time, the more satisfied I am in the sexual relationship. 

Part of our dynamic may be that she is always telling me that I am Hot as F***. She likes muscles and hairy chest. (Actor I would most closely resemble hair/body wise is probably Sean Connery(Hunt for Red October) I think she sees me as a couple clicks higher SMV than her. I have received attention from girls half my age...makes me uncomfortable. And fact that my emotional connection to my wife is very much dependant on sex because that is how I feel loved, and she knows that, and wants me to feel loved by her so she rocks my world very regularly. 

The more sex we have the more we want. It is like an addiction to each other. If I could just find a way to bottle endorphins, it would be bigger that heroine trade.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> Both with same partner.
> Guys to often ask, I used to, now I say,😜 "Get on the bed and get that ass in the air!" She says, 😍❤‍🔥"Yes daddy"
> 
> Who ever talked about asking to do it during commercial break, hell no! You grab her by the ankles and pull her across the bed and pull those panties off, (wife's case, she sleeps in buff) while telling her you are about to do to her in explicit detail.


This might work with your wife but the majority of men in this situation it won’t.
I got in the shower once whilst my wife was in there and she just pushed me out.

Your wife sleeps in the buff whereas mine hides herself when she gets changed.

The OP is correct and the only way to change this is do the 180 or move out immediately.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Your wife sleeps in the buff whereas mine hides herself when she gets changed.
> 
> The OP is correct and the only way to change this is do the 180 or move out immediately.


When I started dating my then almost 26 year old wife, she slept in pyjamas and had never slept in the nude. Yet in short order (a few days) she started sleeping in the nude. and still does with very limited and rare exception. all with no 180 nonsense or moving out ever being involved.

Of which my wife could have easily been a lot like your wife on that score. And to a point she may have been even more reluctant, having maintained her virginity till she was into her 25th year. Yet it didn't turn out that way at all.

At the end of the day though, the OP can't really run away from himself. So unless he changes himself and his own mind, it is highly likely it will always be rinse and repeat with whoever he finds himself with.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I've always said you can fix a relationship if no major damage has been done. When you come here, it's usually too late.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Personal said:


> When I started dating my then almost 26 year old wife, she slept in pyjamas and had never slept in the nude. Yet in short order (a few days) she started sleeping in the nude.


I told my wife the bed was a no clothing zone. She started sleeping in the buff and found out she slept MUCH better. She gets chilled when she 1st gets in bed so she starts looking for me, her fuzzy electric blanket, and we get those naked bodies all tangled up so she can get warm. It usually leads to more in short order.

It does help one sleep better. Have a couple different weights of duvets and it is very comfortable and relaxing.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> I told my wife the bed was a no clothing zone. She started sleeping in the buff and found out she slept MUCH better. She gets chilled when she 1st gets in bed so she starts looking for me, her fuzzy electric blanket, and we get those naked bodies all tangled up so she can get warm. It usually leads to more in short order.
> 
> It does help one sleep better. Have a couple different weights of duvets and it is very comfortable and relaxing.


We have always been in the habit of no clothes in bed. Much more comfortable and intimate.


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