# Tried Talking to Wife



## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

Well with the help from others on here I tried talking to my wife again about triggers and being able to talk to her without her getting defensive or mad. I basicily started off by telling her that I wanted to bring up something that had been bothering me lately. I told her that I know it is hard to talk about what you did, but when I have major triggers I need to talk about it. It had been about 6 months since the last time. Over 4 years since the affair.

Just a few days prior was when I originaly brought up the trigger it didn't go well. She ended up getting defensive and upset. I had been anxious ever since about bringing up the fact that I need to beable to talk to her so I can let go of my feelings. 

So I finally did again tonight. I told her I wasn't upset and wasn't having any issues at the moment, but I need to know that I can talk to you to. And that I will not beat you up or attack you when I do. I just usually need some questions answered, even if they are some of the same old ones. 

At first she was okay and saying I know I need to work on not getting defensive and mad. But then it got ugly real quik. She started bringing up things like you need to learn to let things go after so long, and that you go through this kind of thing every month, and dwell on things, and have major mood swings. That I need to go see someone for it, or get on antidepressents. She said that she chooses not to live in the past and that is what I need to do as well. Just all kinds of things that didn't help me at all, and made the whole thing even worse. 

I told her I don't choose to do this and I hate it. It is the way I am though, and I can't change that. I have a bit of OCD and that makes it worse. But if I can talk about it will releave it completely at the time, I may have one or two more bouts before it is over. I think part of it could be considered PTSD.

She just doesn't understand and claims to think I bring it up just so she won't forget what she did or something else along those lines. I have pleaded with her time after time to at least come on hear or some where else and talk to people that are going through the same things. She refuses to do so. She thinks she can handle it on her own by not thinking about it, and putting it in the past. I highly doupt that really works but I may be wrong. If it did I would think she would beable to handle these conversations.

She finally agreed to talk to someone here or some where else. Wether she does or not I will soon know. I am really lost on what to do next. Any insite would be very helpful. I'm know you guys don't have the complete story and I will be more then glad to answer any questions.

Thanks!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Can you find some things to do on your own to try to handle this. For example, write out what you are feeing either in a journal or in a computer file. I find that usually when I do that I no longer have a need to discuss the topic, whatever it is. Just getting it out of my head is all that is needed.

Or maybe getting an IC so you can talk about it with that person. 

AT some point you do need to be able to not bring it up anymore. At some time it has to be in the past.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Sad thing is that you may/could very well trigger and remember her adultery the rest of your life---and if she is truly into helping you thru your pain---then she cannot keep demanding it be put in the past, and ignored

It won't go away-----she has to realize she is the cause, and for R to be successful, she has to also face what she has wrought onto you, and she has to help you thru the pain, when and wherever it strikes

If she holds you, and talks to you, and works with you, these triggers may ease up, and come farther apart---but she MUST stop fighting you--------this is just keeping a wedge tween the two of you, and it is not helping ------also no medication that is not needed---you probably don't need antidep's-------you just need her to help you thru your grief-----hang in there, and do what is right FOR YOU


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

To me it reads like your wife just wants you to get over it, or rug sweep. You seem like you are still struggling with her affair, and have major needs that are not being met. Reconciliation takes two willing participants and hard, dedicated work. The offer to reconcile is supposed to be something the wayward spouse cherishes and protects. I know this is just your version of events, but the b all was, and still is, firmly in your court. Your quality of life can be improved if your needs are addressed. You should not feel anxious about bringing up the affair, and your wife should certainly be open to discussing it without being mad or defensive.

You need to get into Individual Counseling, and you most definitely need to go to couples counseling with her. If she refuses, you should seriously consider your options in terms of divorcing and starting fresh with someone else.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks guys, that helps and confirms what I feel.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

nxs450 said:


> Well with the help from others on here I tried talking to my wife again about triggers and being able to talk to her without her getting defensive or mad. I basicily started off by telling her that I wanted to bring up something that had been bothering me lately. I told her that I know it is hard to talk about what you did, but when I have major triggers I need to talk about it. It had been about 6 months since the last time. Over 4 years since the affair.
> 
> Just a few days prior was when I originaly brought up the trigger it didn't go well. She ended up getting defensive and upset. I had been anxious ever since about bringing up the fact that I need to beable to talk to her so I can let go of my feelings.
> 
> ...


To be frank this is what defines the incredible difficulties that are reconciliations, Well done on getting years down the line but tbh I'd be worried. The heavy lifting after infidelity is forever. FOREVER.

This is the 'new deal' when one embarks upon r. A new fresh relationship that will never be the same again for both parties. That will involve the betrayed being triggered and she had better get this into her head or there will be problems, serious ones imo.

Of course you don't want to be driving her nuts every day about what she did, but tbh she should never be in a position where she can wipe it all away and forget it. You can't. Why should she.

Every now and then you should be able to bring up anything about it and she should accommodate that or for me it illustrates there are issues about true remorse in some way

I've seen examples on here where 20 years later the betrayed still needs to get something of their chest for a few hours and as inexplicable as that may be to the ws who has never undergone such a thing they need to accept that or ....


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Brother,

To me, it sounds like your wife is trying to rug sweep. When she gets upset at you... I think she may be getting upset with herself a bit too. It was her actions that caused this. She caused the pain...

When you trigger she may not be able to understand why you just can't get over it, or it bothers her because she feels guilty for causing the pain or both...

Like Elle said a lot of it is just getting it out of your head. Sometimes I will go down to the river and read Robert Frost poems. Sometimes, most times I go to the gym. Conjuring the things that caused the triggers helps tremendously. Sometimes I talk to a friend.

I know that my EX still blames me for everything and has distorted the past. For my part, I don't care... My kids keep me well grounded.

I know you want to work on your marriage. Your triggers can cause a lot of stress and how you deal with them is important. You should try to find an outlet for your triggers... hit a heavy bag, gym etc... It will help you release. If you have talked about this with your wife and she can't understand why you can't get over it, it can cause more stress.

Talking to her is great. Communication is great. Make sure you forgive her. Do this for you, not her. When you forgive, you don't hold it over their heads, just realize it was a mistake and try to move on as best you can. Find an outlet for your pain and try to use that outlet as much as possible. I know it is easier said than done. I know it first hand Work on making yourself a better person and focus on what you can control, your actions and things will be ok.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Headspin said:


> I've seen examples on here where 20 years later the betrayed still needs to get something of their chest for a few hours and as inexplicable as that may be to the ws who has never undergone such a thing they need to accept that or ....


......f*ck off.

Mine just did. He always f*cks off. He can't handle questioning of him and not being believed. Though he understands why and where it comes from. At least he says he does anyway. I was lied to for nearly 3 years (prob still am lied to) of a 3 and half year relationship! And he is pissed off with me! Yes, you did hear that right folks. He is pissed off with me because I question him and disbelieve him!


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

There's a guy on this site, forgot who, and the affair was 10 years ago in his marriage. His wife pulls the same crap. Rug sweeping, getting defensive, not wanting to talk about it because it makes HER feel bad, etc. 

His wife sounds selfish and self-centered kind of like your wife does. It's all about her. Guess what? He wants to move out and file for divorce. Over an affair that ended a decade ago because his wife couldn't address what she had done like a mature adult. 

Because his wife couldn't think of anyone besides herself, didn't want to do anything but say "the past is the past. get over it", not think about her husbands feelings and what he's going through and only think about herself and he kept trying to convince himself to stay over a woman who IMO didn't sound worth it. Now he's at a point where he feels he just can't deal with it anymore.

Your wife telling you to "let it go" instead of addressing, accepting, and taking responsibility for the hurt SHE caused YOU is a serious problem.

Can I ask why you didn't leave her?? Especially if that's her attitude about the entire situation?? Because it doesn't sound like she respects you much.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Remains said:


> ......f*ck off.
> 
> Mine just did. He always f*cks off. He can't handle questioning of him and not being believed. Though he understands why and where it comes from. At least he says he does anyway. I was lied to for nearly 3 years (prob still am lied to) of a 3 and half year relationship! And he is pissed off with me! Yes, you did hear that right folks. *He is pissed off with me because I question him and disbelieve him*!


He is pissed off because he got caught and you ruined everything that was perfect in his world.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

Jasel said:


> There's a guy on this site, forgot who, and the affair was 10 years ago in his marriage. His wife pulls the same crap. Rug sweeping, getting defensive, not wanting to talk about it because it makes HER feel bad, etc.
> 
> His wife sounds selfish and self-centered kind of like your wife does. It's all about her. Guess what? He wants to move out and file for divorce. Over an affair that ended a decade ago because his wife couldn't address what she had done like a mature adult.
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong about her not admitting to her wrong doing etc. She has been completely remorseful, and has giving me every detail that I can think of. We both went to IC for several months and then joined in MC for at least a year, and returned a few times afterwards.

Like I said it has been a little over 4 years since D day and things are pretty good. It is just being able to talk to her when I trigger. I guess I'm that type of person that is acceptable to it. For example last week I found out that my Step brothers wife was caught having an affair with a 15 year old boy. She is a teacher and will never teach again. He was devistated and it just brought back those feeling to me for some reason. Maybe because it was someone close to me or what. I don't know. I then also stumbled across a picture of the OM, which I had never seen what he had looked like up until now. My wife swears I had but I never did. She refused to let me see anything at the time with his picture on it, thinking it would only make things worse. So I guess in a way that may of been kind of an unanswered question to me. There again I don't know.

All I know is that I need to beable to talk to her when these things happen. I have tried writing things down on paper, and coming on here helps some. But the most relief I get is by talkng to her. I have figured that part out by now.

Since the blow up last night she gave me a note this morning saying how sorry she is and in her words "I hate, hate, hate, myself for hurting you". That sounds like to me like someone that hasn't forgiven herself yet for what she did. And then she tells me how can she forgive herself when I keep bringing things back up. That is why I believe it would do her good to talk to people on hear or another place if she wants. Someone that can relate to her.

But I doupt that she will even though I asked her last night after things calmed down to promise to talk to someone, and she ageed to do so. If I ask her about she will probaly get defensive again, and things will probaly turn into a arguement again. So what do I do?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> She said that she chooses not to live in the past


Well bully for her! Sadly, you do not have that option. You live with an adulteress, *and that is not your past, that is your present reality. *


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

nxs450 said:


> Don't get me wrong about her not admitting to her wrong doing etc. She has been completely remorseful, and has giving me every detail that I can think of. We both went to IC for several months and then joined in MC for at least a year, and returned a few times afterwards.
> 
> Like I said it has been a little over 4 years since D day and things are pretty good. It is just being able to talk to her when I trigger. I guess I'm that type of person that is acceptable to it. For example last week I found out that my Step brothers wife was caught having an affair with a 15 year old boy. She is a teacher and will never teach again. He was devistated and it just brought back those feeling to me for some reason. Maybe because it was someone close to me or what. I don't know. I then also stumbled across a picture of the OM, which I had never seen what he had looked like up until now. My wife swears I had but I never did. She refused to let me see anything at the time with his picture on it, thinking it would only make things worse. So I guess in a way that may of been kind of an unanswered question to me. There again I don't know.
> 
> ...


Forgiving oneself is okay when you have done something wrong, know it, hurt someone and don't have anything to do with them anymore . 
That is it's own way forward. In a sense one is 'free' to move on and although remind oneself one is not perfect and to not transgress again.

Here the the crux is that you are still living with this person and have a life with them and so one is not 'free' to 'forget' maybe forgive oneself so easily especially like your wife now when the person you have hurt so badly is a walking daily reminder of just how capable of doing bad things you are.

I think trying forgive oneself is maybe the wrong approach. Its almost impossible given the circumstances. 
Maybe to try to live with the fact, accept, that you are actually capable of bad things, bad intentions and hurting the person closest to you is a less demanding exercise.

Maybe now is one of those waves every other year or so of taking stock for her "am I really going to have to answer for that for ever"? I think the reality is yes you are.. This will happen every so often. Obviously you have to consider this too. You can't beat her up forever and a day but she does need to understand that it will never ever be forgotten should you both live to a hundred each 

It's the price


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

You're biggest problem right now, as I see it, is that you don't have a remorseful and repentant wife on your hands right now. You have a rug sweeper. 

Wild horses couldn't stop a truly remorseful WW help her BH heal, no matter how long it takes...even if it's a lifetime.

She has no clue what she's done to you and your marriage, and frankly, I don't think she cares. All she cares about is "forgiving herself". It's still all about her and her self forgiveness.

She can only earn that forgiveness to herself when she can be satisfied she has done everything in her power to help you heal from the immense pain SHE inflicted on YOU.

It's still all about her. Until she gets it, really comprehends the depth of her betrayal and the consequences associated with it, you're fighting a losing battle.

If I were you, I would be planning an exit strategy.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Didn't she have a Dday of her own? How's that going?


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Didn't she have a Dday of her own? How's that going?


It doesn't seem to really bother her that much. I have asked her why and she says she just doesn't like to think about it. She says the way I emotionally neglected her in the past bothers her more then the Dancer thing does. She says she is just mainly discusted with it.

She does think that if I would of came to her and told her about it first it would maybe stopped what she did. That we would of known we had problems and would of got help then.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Take a lesson from her. She's gotten past your PA (physical intimacy with a hooker - that ocurred before she had an Ea/PA right?)

It's been four yrs AND she told you everything you wanted to know chapter-and-verse. She answered you questions repeatedly. She too has a right to boohoo but she chooses to plow forward. As far as I'm concerned neither of you has the moral high ground.

Unless you want to compare who's misbehavior is more disrespectful you should give her a hug and tell her you both have things to forgive and get past. 
You say it's not a constant issue but you'd like to talk about it from time to time. 

Under the circumstances I think you'd better let sleeping dogs lie. What are you going to do 5yrs from now when she suddenly starts questioning you every other week about your ONS?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Take a lesson from her. She's gotten past your PA (physical intimacy with a hooker - that ocurred before she had an Ea/PA right?)


This puts this:


nxs450 said:


> She started bringing up things like you need to learn to let things go after so long, and that you go through this kind of thing every month, and dwell on things, and have major mood swings. That I need to go see someone for it, or get on antidepressents. She said that she chooses not to live in the past and that is what I need to do as well. Just all kinds of things that didn't help me at all, and made the whole thing even worse.


In an entirely different perspective. Now, I understand why she is basically telling you to HT*U!


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Take a lesson from her. She's gotten past your PA (physical intimacy with a hooker - that ocurred before she had an Ea/PA right?)
> 
> It's been four yrs AND she told you everything you wanted to know chapter-and-verse. She answered you questions repeatedly. She too has a right to boohoo but she chooses to plow forward. As far as I'm concerned neither of you has the moral high ground.
> 
> ...


Your right they are both cheating, and they both were disrespectful. The difference is she worked with someone and had an 3 month affair with them. I met someone for a 10 min HJ. Which one is going to cause the most grief, questions that need answered, etc. Like I said I allready suffer from OCD from time to time. I usally manage it, but it gets me sometimes. When it does all I am asking is to be able to talk with out it turning into a big fight, and blame game.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This puts this:
> In an entirely different perspective. Now, I ,understand why she is basically telling you to HT*U!


You have very little to no knowledge of our relationship to come to that conclusion. I admitted to the HJ after I found out about her PA. There is a lot more that has went on in our past that I choose not to go into detail about.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Do the 2 of you, sit down and just talk, maybe 2 or 3 times a week---let it all hang out, say whatever you need to get out

You guys have hurt each other, you both still lay blame on each other, and that is part of the drill-----she seems to be able to swallow your indescretion easier, than you hers, 

I don't know how you dealt with her, when she wanted/needed help as to what you did---but she does need to help you thru your pain triggers---that is done by her holding you, soothing you, loving you, if there is any love left tween the 2 of you, and you would do the same for her, if she needed help

You both need to sit down, talk to each other, and lay out some rules, for dealing with pain triggers---they just may be there the rest of your life, and they do need to be dealt with, as they do cause feelings that could wreck your present mge., if they are not dealt with------she has to be made to understand this----or the 2 of you are gonna have problems the rest of your mge---cuz, you may/will trigger the rest of your life


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

There comes a time when you have to let it go or move on. In your own words your wife has done everything in the past to answer your questions and concerns, gone to MC etc etc.
Maybe her cheating is a deal breaker for you but you just don't realise it yet?
As BSs there will forever be triggers, mind movies, reminders, but after 4 years this should have eased somewhat by now. If it hasn't then I suggest you get some
IC as you very well maybe suffering from PTSD.

You've both cheated. Who's infidelity was 'worse' is a mater of opinion, but you have to see that both incidents are connected and maybe there's a chance one wouldn't have happened without the other. There's obviously a communication problem in your marriage, I think it's very important to address this
as this could lead to further infidelities in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

nxs450 said:


> It doesn't seem to really bother her that much. I have asked her why and she says she just doesn't like to think about it. *She says the way I emotionally neglected her in the past bothers her more then the Dancer thing does*. She says she is just mainly discusted with it.


Your wife is my wife. You are me.

Your wife doesn't love you any more. She stopped loving you when you emotionally neglected her. She doesn't have any desire to help you through her infidelity because she has no skin in the game in this marriage any longer. 

How is your sex life? How often does she initiate? Try not saying "I love you" to her for a while. See if she says it first (how did I know you always say it first?).

Get ready for the ILYBINILWYAM. Because they don't come back once they leave. Read up on walk-away wives. Read up on the 180.

Good luck.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

PS: A hand job from a stripper DOES NOT equal a 3 month affair, or whatever it was. Not even CLOSE!


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

3putt said:


> You're biggest problem right now, as I see it, is that you don't have a remorseful and repentant wife on your hands right now. You have a rug sweeper.
> 
> Wild horses couldn't stop a truly remorseful WW help her BH heal, no matter how long it takes...even if it's a lifetime.
> 
> ...


Sounds all too familiar to me.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

I don't know, I'm a bit torn with this.

The OP clearly says that through his wife admissions he is bringing this up every month. He didn't deny it. It has been 4 years since the incident. They went to counseling for over a year and some MC. 

I would suggest that you restart MC or counseling. 

OP also has some issues with OCD and he admits he knows all there is to know about the PA. 

I will also agree that though both of you were wrong, but hand job does not equal 3 month affair. 

I do think there comes a time where you will have to learn how to swallow some of this and not make it every month.. 
If the affair was 3 months then it wasn't 12 months. 

Unless your wife told you that they had a sexual position for every day of the week, then I can't see that *EVERY MONTH* your having these issues and getting triggers. 

Maybe like someone mentioned, Journal or even coming here to vent might be better. 

I can see you getting bent out of shape during the 3 months of the incident, but again not every month. I think that is your OCD taking over and you need to separate your real affair issues from your OCD induced issues.

End result you both decided to fix this, but there comes a point where you both need to get on with your lives. There just needs to be a point where you can say she has really tried. I don't know her but if your saying she told you everything and you guys went to IC and MC. Then as I said, continue doing some IC or MC every so often. 

I think the mistake is you do it for 1 year and then think its done, when you should be going every 2 or 3 months for a few visits for maintenance after the year.

I will tell you that eventually you will drive her away if your going after her every month.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I'm a bit torn as well, and I think it all depends on how these conversations are IRL and how his wife perceives them.

What does it really mean to "get over it"? Does it mean that everything is forgotten? 

No, I don't think so, to me, it doesn't sound healthy to suppress thoughts and feelings when they appear. My sense of getting over things is to be able to think about it, talk about it and work with it together constructively without getting angry.

I think it's genereally a problem, if you can't bring up something that bothers you. And I can somewhat relate to that.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> He is pissed off because he got caught and .......


.....he doesn't feel real regret or remorse. Only pissed off he got caught.

Exactly what I said to him yesterday. 

And guess what. He has left me because he wants no part of it! Because he can't take it! The questioning that is. And not being believed. Ha! I said good riddance. Because if he can't deal with what he has produced, tough. I don't make any apologies for it. And I want no part of someone who is selfish and a coward.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Headspin said:


> To be frank this is what defines the incredible difficulties that are reconciliations, Well done on getting years down the line but tbh I'd be worried. *The heavy lifting after infidelity is forever. FOREVER.*
> 
> This is the 'new deal' when one embarks upon r. *A new fresh relationship that will never be the same again for both parties*. That will involve the betrayed being triggered and she had better get this into her head or there will be problems, serious ones imo.
> 
> ...


OP, in the end, its not your fault that you are that way, so do not blame yourself. Your wife did this to you. Stay focused and tell your wife to GET OVER IT and accept the fact that she's been forgiven and that she is the one that needs to help you cope, not some counselor.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Sorry for my threadjack. It was on the topic of being able to talk, though obviously with a double D Day it kinda puts another spin on the whole thing. 

I agree with above posters, there has to be a time to let it go. You feel you have all the answers, that she has been honest, so what else do you need to talk about? Sometimes you just have to push those triggers away. 

By the same token, healthy discussion is good. Do you bring it up in a non confrontational manner? Are you kindly or accusatory when you bring it up? 

I think 4 years is long enough if you have had honesty, remorse, and the full story for all that time. I think it is time to move on. Bringing it up once a month is not helpful to you. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and stop dwelling on the triggers.

Edit: Regarding the above post, has she spent time helping you get over it? If so, in what way? How long before she began getting cross and defensive?


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm at work right now so I don't have much time. I just want to address a misunderstanding on here. I don't trigger every month. The last time I did was in November around our anniversary because that is when I found out about D day. It really wasn't very bad either. So I would say that I may have triggered 2 or 3 times in the last year with this time causing me more anxiety etc. then usual.


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## frozen (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: Re: Tried Talking to Wife*



walkonmars said:


> Take a lesson from her. She's gotten past your PA (physical intimacy with a hooker - that ocurred before she had an Ea/PA right?)
> 
> It's been four yrs AND she told you everything you wanted to know chapter-and-verse. She answered you questions repeatedly. She too has a right to boohoo but she chooses to plow forward. As far as I'm concerned neither of you has the moral high ground.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I must respectfully disagree. Each person's infidelity must be dealt with separately. OP it's not taking the high ground he is simply seeking recovery from his wife's infidelity.

If OP was 4 months out from DDay and wife was bringing up his infidelity every time he tried to air his feelings recovery would be impossible. Most of what he needs is simply to be heard, to share feelings. 

It seems to me you believe OP doesn't deserve healing or recovery because of his past. Because she moved past it, he has to as well? Yet had he not cheated he then would be fully entitled to the recovery he is asking.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Sure. Point taken. The attitude of yours was 3 months mine was 10 minutes just doesn't sit well with me. But point taken.


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## frozen (Mar 5, 2012)

I relate very close to his feelings so I am sensitive on this and have had many conversations with MC on this issue. 

NxS, I'm going to recommend something that works for others and which may help you to overcome the defensiveness. Personally, it's really hard for me, very unnatural but when my wife and I do it it allows/requires the listener to just listen.

It's a method practiced by Hedy and Yumi. I think it's a derivation of imago therapy. You make an appointment with your wife to visit in your world. She "crosses the bridge" and then you describe how things make you feel. Don't say you or use any accusatory terminology, it's just about your feelings. 

As you describe your wife should repeat back what you are saying and ask you if she is getting it. She is not to respond in any other way, just allowed to acknowledge your feelings. 

Google "crossing the bridge" and Hedy and Yumi you will find plenty. It may really help you.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Well, I'm a bit torn as well, and I think it all depends on how these conversations are IRL and how his wife perceives them.
> 
> What does it really mean to "get over it"? Does it mean that everything is forgotten?
> 
> ...


That is all I am trying to get through to her.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

frozen said:


> I relate very close to his feelings so I am sensitive on this and have had many conversations with MC on this issue.
> 
> NxS, I'm going to recommend something that works for others and which may help you to overcome the defensiveness. Personally, it's really hard for me, very unnatural but when my wife and I do it it allows/requires the listener to just listen.
> 
> ...


Thanks I will check it out.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

Sunday my wife went to the mall and when she came home she told me she did a lot of walking around and thinking. She said she finally come to the realization why she has a hard time listening to me, or comforting me. Because in all the years before the affair when she would come to me hurting or needed to talk etc. that I wasn't there for her. So she felt like why should she be there for me when I didn't do it for her. She said she now realizes that is wrong because I have changed and she is doing the same thing I used to do. So she will work on listening to me and trying not to get upset.

That got me to thinking about what do I really feel down deep. What do I think is the root cause for my triggers and continued problems. After 2 nights at work thinking about it I have come up with a couple of reasons I feel like I do. Number one is like I had said before I always had strong convictions towards someone who would cheat on me. I felt that if my spouse ever went to someone else and had an affair it would be the end. A deal breaker. But the thing is I did the same thing with the girl in Vegas. I felt guilty if I was to end it with her when I did the same thing. This was before I even told my her about it. Now several years later I still get these feelings sometimes. I catch myself thinking during triggers or bad times, how can I stay with someone who has betrayed me like she did. I feel like I am going against my values.

The other thing I really feel at these times is that she believes that I am the reason she had the affair. Like she stated is her reason for not helping me when I come to her. That deep down the real reason is she blames me for the affair. That if I didn't do all the things I did that she would of never had a reason to go to someone else. She is still resentfull of the things I did or the way I treated her in the past. Even though she has admitted to being wrong, selfish etc.

Also the times I bring up the things that are hurting me she will usually go to great lengths to try to get me to understand that the pain she felt from the things I did in the past are equal to what I am feeling from the affair.

She has worked a lot of the steps and is remorsefull, but I feel at times it is more directed towards going against her moral code, values, and being ashamed. Like one of the things she has said "I have broken about every Comandment there is now".

It is late and I am really tired, I hope this all makes sense.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

It makes sense.
I think you guys are really doing well despite the still sometimes consuming hurt. 
Hope this new serious talks brings you closer.

Just a little detail. It's obvious you need a little more empathy from her, she's starting to think she must but I don't think her aproach about remorse is not "apropiate". Resentments are real they must be dealt. But her complete rejection of the cheating as "self betrayal" is the only way to affair proof herself. And its the more clear way to feel relatively safe of more infidelity in the fuiuture. It's very important.
Many waywards are empathic and compasive towards their betrayed ones but they still feel justified and see nothing wrong with the cheating per se, they are only sorry of being caught. It's not the case.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

nxs450 said:


> The other thing I really feel at these times is that she believes that I am the reason she had the affair. Like she stated is her reason for not helping me when I come to her. That deep down the real reason is she blames me for the affair. That if I didn't do all the things I did that she would of never had a reason to go to someone else. She is still resentfull of the things I did or the way I treated her in the past. Even though she has admitted to being wrong, selfish etc.


 What you have is blame shifting and rug sweeping but not remorse. Without remorse there cannot be true reconciliation and the potential for her to cheat again remains if in her opinion you are not there for her again. Thus if she meets another man that is more there for her than you, and enters the affair fog with him which will further rationalize this thinking, she can and will cheat on you again without true remorse.

Guess what? You are human. As a human, you are not perfect. Cheaters like your wife hold their spouse to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to, so that when you fail as expected they can rationalize their cheating. This is actually common cheater speak that your wife is giving you. It is right out of the cheaters handbook. By saying that now that you have changed she will try to have more empathy for your feelings about her affair, what she is really saying in that statement is that if you are not there for her again she will feel free to cheat again without remorse or empathy for you. Like all cheaters, she holds herself out as the judge and jury as to when you deserve to be cheated on. To her cheating is a viable option in marraige to you.

*Bottom line: She is still thinking and talking like a cheater without remorse and you are buying into it. She will likely cheat again if you do not change this thinking. You have been warned.*


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

TRy said:


> What you have is blame shifting and rug sweeping but not remorse. Without remorse there cannot be true reconciliation and the potential for her to cheat again remains if in her opinion you are not there for her again. Thus if she meets another man that is more there for her than you, and enters the affair fog with him which will further rationalize this thinking, she can and will cheat on you again without true remorse.
> 
> Guess what? You are human. As a human, you are not perfect. Cheaters like your wife hold their spouse to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to, so that when you fail as expected they can rationalize their cheating. This is actually common cheater speak that your wife is giving you. It is right out of the cheaters handbook. By saying that now that you have changed she will try to have more empathy for your feelings about her affair, what she is really saying in that statement is that if you are not there for her again she will feel free to cheat again without remorse or empathy for you. Like all cheaters, she holds herself out as the judge and jury as to when you deserve to be cheated on. To her cheating is a viable option in marraige to you.
> 
> *Bottom line: She is still thinking and talking like a cheater without remorse and you are buying into it. She will likely cheat again if you do not change this thinking. You have been warned.*


The way things are now I don't see either one of us cheating again. There is no reason to, where we had problems before. I really haven't posted enough on this site for others to know what went in the marriage and in our recovery process. I didn't find this place until about a year ago. I was at Marriage Builders before and got tired of the BS there.

Other then the problem of talking about the past sometimes we are very close now. Back when everything happened we were so distant, and full of resentment that it is know wonder we both cheated. We both had some previous addictions to prescription meds on top of it all.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Rug sweeping is strong with this one. Isn't it obvious that she isn't remorseful? I see another affair in the very future.

You've been long here to know cheaters cheat even in perfect marriages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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