# Bit blue tonight...



## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

Acknowleding and enforcing boundaries is hard sometimes. Harder to enforce them than to just try and pretend the hurt didn't exist in the first place. Love is a fickle thing, and even though I have just been trying to let it go, it's sucking at my soul like a heavy-duty vacuum.

I know that my boundaries are looser than what a lot of people believe here; I don't have problems with sexual fidelity, matter of fact I was looking forward to some of the same things that firefly1 was posting about in her thread with the guy I had been seeing. But where I am a stickler for is truth. And trust. And being able to express myself when in love in the most authentic way I know how. I like to be able to open up; to let love be seen though my eyes; to let my inner light shine on those around me.

And because of the mess with my divorce, the guy I liked didn't want to get drug into it; so he picked up a girlfriend almost as a beard. My divorce was long and ugly and I spent six-figures in it protecting myself from crazy at every turn. My divorce finally finalized, and guy had broken up with his girlfriend. Guy and I started to see each other more regularly; but I was a bit cautious about my kids; started talking to them about Mommy and Daddy seeing other people and how that would make them feel. 

Week before Christmas, I hear the words I hadn't heard in over a year; the three little magic ones: "I love you." Thought that things may end up having a silver lining. The last of my walls were coming down with him, my eyes had started shining again. Weekend before Christmas, I heard through the grapevine that guy had another girlfriend; and it wasn't me. Spent Christmas just kinda out of it. Decided that I needed to do something different than what I did before, and decided to talk to guy about wtf was going on. (Normally I would have just pretended that what had happened hadn't hurt, that I was impervious to it).

I ended up having that conversation over two nights last week; the first one was after we had been out drinking; he more than I. Told him I knew about the girlfriend, told him I didn't understand why he wouldn't have told me. Conversation got very emotional, he started it off by saying she was a fake girlfriend, told me he thought I had stopped communicating with him. He almost started to tear up when he said "you've already made your decision" in that I was going to stop seeing him. Bar closed, we ended up going to his place to continue the conversation. Ended up sexxing it up and staying the night, although the conversation never got finished.

We ended up meeting last night to finish the conversation, no booze involved. I tried telling him that I just couldn't do it again, I couldn't try and wait it out for him to figure out what was going on with the new girlfriend, that I needed more. That I couldn't try and just be a fwb again; that I loved him, that it meant too much to me to try and hide that what was happening wasn't hurting me.

He got a little angry and said that what he was hearing was that since he wasn't going to break it off with the other girl right then and there that I was walking away. I told him no, what I was trying to say is that _I_ couldn't do this again. I wasn't trying to tell him what to do, but rather what _I_ was going to do. What _I_ needed. What _I_ was looking for. He told me that he didn't think it was going to last with the new gf, and that ultimately he wants the same thing I do; the today and tomorrow together. 

I ended up staying the night again, and had sex, and it was one of the most gentlest, sweetest times ever. (We have great sex in general, but a lot of the time its rougher, harder.) He made the effort to caress me in the ways that I had told him make me feel loved from the top of my head to the tips of my toes. He put my hand on him in the same manner that makes me feel loved. It was like he was asking me to love him, and that he loved me, but without the words again.

Overall it was a very emotional night, and writing this has me in tears now. I feel like I have pulled out a part of myself, and set it on a shelf to die. I miss this man, this friend in my heart of hearts, but I can't pretend that I want anything other than forever with him. That I have lost some trust in him for not being honest with me about the gf situation. That I _love_ him, but I need more. I need the trust, I need the openness. I need to be able to talk to him about anything and I need him to be that honest with me. That we used to be that way, but we aren't any longer.

This panda misses her monkey. 

-M


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I'm sorry. It's hard to make a decision from a place of self preservation that first tears you apart. 

Had you discussed your relationship was monogamous? If so, he put your relationship in jeopardy and, well, cheated. Even - no, especially - open relationships require honesty of the hightest calibre.

Had you assumed ILU meant exclusive? I would say that's reasonable. Not necessarily before that but dang... ILU generally means you only want one person unless you've discussed polyamory.

I'm sorry that you had to have that kind of hurt in your life again. I'm very proud of how strong you were to make a decision based on YOU and YOUR NEEDS. That tender night was a goodbye.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Girl, I think you and I need to go have a beer. I am going through an eerily similar situation, but I never got a single I love you. I am sorry you are hurting.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

I am sorry, but I want to be honest.

he may have fond feelings towards you, but not love, why will he kept his gf otherwise it makes no sense unless he have deeper feeling for her, I don't want to be mean, but I don't want you to be fooled and hurt even more, you are his plan B, he have no financial or legal bonds with his GF, if he loves yu why don't he just end things with her.

please cut things with him, don't waste more time of your life with a man that don't value you as you deserve, no person deserves less than being the number one in her partner's heart.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

He's a player. 

He's a manipulative scumbag that gives the rest of us guys a bad name. 

Morgiana, it's hard to enforce boundaries without self respect. 

You are worth much more than this.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I'm sorry. It's hard to make a decision from a place of self preservation that first tears you apart.
> 
> Had you discussed your relationship was monogamous? If so, he put your relationship in jeopardy and, well, cheated. Even - no, especially - open relationships require honesty of the hightest calibre.
> 
> ...


No, there was no discussion of monogamy. I had asked him around Thanksgiving if he was interested in dating, and he didn't say yes, and he didn't say no. I kinda figured he was seeing someone else, but it was never like we were exclusive. We have discussed polygamy/swinging at length; he was more into swinging in general, and so am I; but I like closed-group swinging more than just general cavorting. But I also set out that I wasn't going to do anything of the nature without having a solid relationship first.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Yep. Does it sound like this at all?
> 
> 5 Myths About Polyamory | Relationships, Sex & Love | LiveScience


2ntnuf, about polymory and me: The closest I can thing that I come is "free love"; it takes a lot for me to let someone into my inner circle; but when I do, I don't distinguish much from how I would feel about the relationship if it were sexual vs non-sexual. It's not that I am looking to switch primary partners, but that when I truly like someone I don't mind taking it to the next level. This also doesn't happen very often, it's been about one person every 3-4 years that I am talking about. And I never acted on it while married because of the rules of the marriage I had. But since I know how _I_ feel about the issue, I can understand if someone said they felt the same way as well.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

manticore said:


> I am sorry, but I want to be honest.
> 
> he may have fond feelings towards you, but not love, why will he kept his gf otherwise it makes no sense unless he have deeper feeling for her, I don't want to be mean, but I don't want you to be fooled and hurt even more, you are his plan B, he have no financial or legal bonds with his GF, if he loves yu why don't he just end things with her.
> 
> please cut things with him, don't waste more time of your life with a man that don't value you as you deserve, no person deserves less than being the number one in her partner's heart.


I had been observing his behavior very closely since he broke up with his original gf. He had left pics up of her, he had made some oblique comments about she broke it off with him. Coming out of a very bitter d, I could understand needing time to heal, and wanted to give him the space to not be a rebound for him either. I have been trying to be very careful about how I react to things because I know that I had a lot of heavy emotional **** going on for over two years; so I was also trying to make sure that I wasn't letting him be a rebound for me either. Find my footing and steady myself before trying to walk with someone else. 

And I believe that I told him that unless I was #1, that isn't good enough. That I couldn't/wouldn't sit back and just wait. But there seems to have been miscommunication on both our parts; and so I was also trying to rectify that. That if there was to be nothing else, then it would be because there was clarity between us and we just didn't mesh. Not because I let something slide without trying to take care of it.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Morgiana,
> 
> I posted that to see if you could recognise any of that behavior in him. Apparently, we, as humans, can love more than one person. Well, duh.  What I didn't know when I first read about it was that we can love in a marital sense, how do I say this? We can love more than one person like we would one spouse. We can desire them and love them deeply, supposedly. That's tricky for me because I am the opposite.
> 
> ...


Ah, we had talked about it in quite a bit of detail, he is more of just having sexual fantasies and being an exhibitionist, and I am more of the I like feeling close to multiple people, and in closed group swinging with other couples to use everyone's pair bonding to allow closeness with others without having to worry about is this person an intimate relationship just with me that I have to cultivate. I want to inherently like and appreciate the others I would be having sex with, but I want the relationship to also bolster the primary one, not detract from it.

The way we both thought of it was having another group of friends to hang out with, ones that we could enjoy sitting around just bs'ing with, but also had the added element of being sexual with.

I realized I didn't answer the second part of your question either, so adding that in. My honest opinion is this: the dude was beaten by an abusive father, left by his mother, joined the military and started doing crazy ****. I think that he feels a lot of pressure to try and conform to a monogamous relationship but he doesn't really _want_ to. I believe that it is not _necessary_ to conform to a monogamous relationship to have a good LTR/marriage etc. But I do believe that having any type of non-traditional marriage requires a whole hell of a lot of talking and setting expectations to keep anyone from getting hurt.

Traditional marriages make a lot of things easier. It sets the base standard expectation of the act, same like religion does for setting the general moral outlook of a society. But I am not traditional nor one to take an easy path just because it is easy. I believe that love exists in many forms, but a single pair-bonding gives strength to both halves of the pair. Intimacy outside the pair-bond can both enhance as well as provide an outlet that doesn't weaken the pair-bond, but it takes a whole lot of mutual understanding to get it there.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

I must say that writing this down and just getting it out have helped. I was in a pretty sad space for a bit, but now I'm just tired; having slept less than 2 hours last night has wiped me out mentally and emotionally .


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Morgiana said:


> Overall it was a very emotional night, and writing this has me in tears now. I feel like I have pulled out a part of myself, and set it on a shelf to die. I miss this man, this friend in my heart of hearts, but I can't pretend that I want anything other than forever with him. That I have lost some trust in him for not being honest with me about the gf situation. *That I _love_ him, but I need more. I need the trust, I need the openness. I need to be able to talk to him about anything and I need him to be that honest with me. That we used to be that way, but we aren't any longer.*


I know how this feels. 

Realize you are strong. You are putting up boundaries and not compromising for YOURSELF. You are not trying to appease what he wants, but sticking up for what you want. 

Be proud of that. 

Yes it is heartache, pain, tears, sadness right now. But yourself is just mourning what you thought you had. You will feel better when you realize you are doing whats best for you. Give it some time (love that cliche', huh?) 

*hugs*


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

In lieu of polluting another thread, I'll make an update here.

A little over a month ago the man in question broke it off with the other woman. We've moved into a slow relationship of sorts. Spending a lot of time together, talking every day, but not rushing it. I'll admit, I'm cautious for a number of reasons, but I also realized something: in small ways I have been sabotaging the relationship. I ended up bringing up a topic that hit home with him and hurt him, and that really made me assess what the fark was I doing. 

That being said, he is a rough diamond, hard working, smart. A guy's guy as well as a ladies man and he's slowly becoming my trusted confidant as well as best friend. I've started having him around my kids, but as nothing more than a friend. My kids seem to be taking to him, one more than the other, but that's okay. Now it's just to make sure he has the patience to be a positive influence in both their lives. I want to empower both my kids and him to find an equilibrium between them. They don't need another Dad, but I think he has qualities both their Dad and I lack that he could bring to their lives as a friend/confidant/uncle-type role.

Here's hoping that things work out. That no matter where we end up the journey was fulfilling.

-M


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

January - He was dating someone else. You told him you loved him and had sex with him. 

April - he breaks up with girlfriend. 

May - you introduce him to kids as a friend/uncle type and hope it works out. 

Please don't take this as a criticism. We all have to take this journey down unknown paths. I'm just trying to understand the timeline. 

What was going on with you/him in between January and April?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Just be careful, friend. He doesn't strike me as altogether trustworthy.


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