# Successful reconciliation



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wazza recently said that "successful reconciliation is not an act of cowardice." I think this would make for an interesting discussion.

Do you agree with his statement? Why or why not? How would you define "successful reconciliation"? How would you define "cowardice," in this context?

There is no right or wrong answer here, btw. We all tend to see things from our own pov. While it is important to speak our truth, let's try to understand other povs, too, and be willing to agree to disagree, if necessary.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Honestly it is a very difficult question to answer with any form of certainty. The answer depends on the severity of the issue at hand, whether children are involved, whether potential lost of livihood due to illness or other element germane to the problem at hand. Cowardice in the face of other potential upheavals could be considered the greater good, in a different manner it could be considered a flaw in character. Each situation is different to label it under board terms does not do credit to the merit of that couple's problem.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Xenote said:


> Honestly it is a very difficult question to answer with any form of certainty. The answer depends on the severity of the issue at hand, whether children are involved, whether potential lost of livihood due to illness or other element germane to the problem at hand. *Cowardice in the face of other potential upheavals could be considered the greater good, in a different manner it could be considered a flaw in character. *Each situation is different to label it under board terms does not do credit to the merit of that couple's problem.


How would you define cowardice here?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Do you have a link to the original thread? Or can you explain what they meant by cowardice? Not sure how reconciliation is cowardice unless you mean that the only reason someone forgives someone is fear of leaving them of being alone.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Do you have a link to the original thread? Or can you explain what they meant by cowardice? Not sure how reconciliation is cowardice unless you mean that the only reason someone forgives someone is fear of leaving them of being alone.


"Wife lied and cheated for years" thread, here in General, post #49.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I have a friend who just renewed her vows on their anniversary, after recovering/reconciling after a horrific betrayal (that involved jail time). Would I have forgiven/reconciled? I don't know. But, I do not that what she did was the exact opposite of being a coward since so, so, so many people just did not understand how she could possibly forgive. Without her strong Christian faith, she never would have been able to do it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Divorce does not equate to cowardice. 

Divorce/Reconciliation(including either success or failure) is not equal to cowardice.

Divorce/Reconciliation(including either success or failure) is not equal to bravery.



They are equal to knowledge and acceptance of truth. 

They are best based in reality and not emotions.

They are not equal to the amount of forgiveness we have in our hearts.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I have a friend who just renewed her vows on their anniversary, after recovering/reconciling after a horrific betrayal (that involved jail time). Would I have forgiven/reconciled? I don't know. But, I do not that what she did was the exact opposite of being a coward since so, so, so many people just did not understand how she could possibly forgive. Without her strong Christian faith, she never would have been able to do it.


I think motives are important. Some people stay together out of neediness, and that does not seem like true reconciliation to me. I am not even sure it works out, long term. Probably resentment there.

Reconciling out of strength, with humility, transparency, and patience on _both_ sides, sounds true to me.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The true success of R is not usually known until the natural end of the marriage (and perhaps not even then if the cheater is really good at concealing). You just can never know for certain what's in someone's heart. I certainly thought my 30 year R was successful -- right up to the point I discovered it wasn't. 

Some cheaters will never cheat again and some will. Some R's will work and some won't. The trick is obviously trying to figure out which one you have (while hoping you didn't guess wrong). You always take a chance in a relationship. It's just that after infidelity you are more aware of the risk than you were before. Because now you know they're capable of ripping your heart out. That's not something you forget. So you hope you made the right choice. And maybe you did.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Well said.

I chose very wrong in my reconciliation.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

My idea of what courage and cowardice are has changed over the years. Nowadays I think cowardice is just doing the easier thing instead of the right thing. Sparing yourself temporarily at the expense of the greater good or greater lesson.

I used to think "backing down" was weak, but learned a little while ago that it takes a lot more strength than it does to hold your ground sometimes. It's easier to walk (run) away from some situations that it is to bend yourself to it, look in the mirror and see what your role is in any situation, swallow your pride and learn from it as best you can. At the same time it also takes a lot of courage sometimes to walk away when that is absolutely the right thing to do.

I think the trick is learning to know the diferrence, identify as best you can what the "right" choice is and have the courage to do the best thing for yourself and others you care about. That's harder than the other part and it's easy to get it wrong.

Thanks for the help you gave me on my other thread, I feel a link to this question to the dilemma I find myself in becaue it's been hard for me to ascertain the diferrence between what's right and best for me and what feels good right now. I think sometimes you have to just go with what you think it right, push aside all your pre-conceived ideas of things and open yourself to pain if you think in the long run it might be the best choice for you. That means also opening yourself to the idea of total failure.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Well said.
> 
> I chose very wrong in my reconciliation.


As did I. 

The very last thing I thought, when I chose to R in my 30's, was that I would choose to D in my 60's. I don't deal in regrets, since I can't change the past, but I do sometimes wish I hadn't given him a second chance. However, it seemed right at the time (heart trumped brain). 
Fortunately, not everyone gets burned a second time as you and I did.:smile2:


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Openminded said:


> As did I.
> 
> The very last thing I thought, when I chose to R in my 30's, was that I would choose to D in my 60's. I don't deal in regrets, since I can't change the past, but I do sometimes wish I hadn't given him a second chance. However, it seemed right at the time (heart trumped brain).
> Fortunately, not everyone gets burned a second time as you and I did.:smile2:


And fortunately for me, my second time was only after one year, not nearly 30. 

So hard to push those regrets aside when you think about all.that.time.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Keeping my old lady around was one of the most bravest thing I did in life. So far it's paid off. So ya I agree it takes a brave person to R 

I figured she'd screw up with in a month after d day, but as the years pass she has kept her shyt together and I also so have kept my shyt together. Meeting each others needs is a big deal and I don't think one is chicken for doing it.

Coming from the slapaho tribe I'm sure my old lady had just as much courage to keep me around as I did keeping her around.So I think the coward is the one that excepts bad behavior and tolerates it. the brave ones stand up to the bad behavior and makes a change......the graceful one is the one that forgives.....and having that kind of grace has to be pretty phucking brave to take that kind of risk!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

This part right here.



> So I think the coward is the one that excepts bad behavior and tolerates it. the brave ones stand up to the bad behavior and makes a change......the graceful one is the one that forgives.



Brave to do the work? Not so sure. It's work you needed to do whether in or out of R. You knew it. 

I think it(your R) was a calculated risk, unless you just threw caution to the wind and gave it a try, which I think is dangerous and very risky, and borders on doing nothing. 

Good on you for both doing the hard work of reconciliation and working things out. You made a good choice, so far. I hope it's a permanent change.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> "Wife lied and cheated for years" thread, here in General, post #49.


I gotcha thanks. Would have to agree with 2ntuf


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sure *I* had work to do.....Mrs. the guy had hers.

And that"s the thing here...a successful R has to come from both spouses.

My old ladies infidelity is hers to own just like my anger. What works is sticking around and reaping the rewards from the healthy changes the other spouse makes.

I know if I ever lay out my old lady and if she end up on the floor from my own hands this marriage is done....and the same for her. If she starts phucking around again we are done....neither one of us want to go done that road ever again.

Neither one of us are scared about this fact...it simply is a fact..."don't phuck with me"...and at the end of the day it's way easier to just have healthy behaviors and not piss each other off by being a dumb @ss.

At the end of the day if more folks had spouses that had the courage to just let them go then they wouldn't do stupid shyt like cheat on them....It's messed up that some waywards think they can get away with it and the betrayed spouse is to afraid to bail.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> And fortunately for me, my second time was only after one year, not nearly 30.
> 
> So hard to push those regrets aside when you think about all.that.time.


It's a good thing I'm not the type to regret things in my life because if I were those 30 years (that I obviously can't get back) would be difficult to live with. But I look forward and not back so I'm at peace and happy with my life now. However, I tend not to be an R supporter because of those 30 years. And I tend to stay away from those threads so I don't impose my negativity about the likelihood of the long-term success of R on anyone trying to R (because some do make it).


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK so first one must understand the difference between cowardice and fear.

I went to an incredible school (all boys unfortunately) that considered themselves to be "makers of men" ! They dealt with this very well. Fear is a healthy concern for that which is potentially harmful, painful or dangerous. Cowardice is the lack of courage to overcome one's fear when you need to for the good of one's self and/or good of others.

Reconciliation and Divorce, both often mean facing up to and overcoming one's fears for the good of one's self and also of others. 

Not doing so is cowardice. So just as staying in a disastrous or unfaithful marriage because one is too cowardly to do anything about it is wrong so could be failing to recognise when it is the right and proper thing to do to not only forgive, but reconcile with someone who is truly sorry, still loves you, whom you still love and there could also be others (kids) vested in the relationship.

Recognising when to reconcile is the tough thing. And it is often different for each one of us. And one of the biggest obstacles is not one's own pride as many may think, but more often the complete lack of disrespect shown by the wayward. Disrespect in cheating, lying, trickle truthing, betraying etc.

There, that is my attempt as a starter for ten bucks!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> So just as staying in a disastrous or unfaithful marriage because one is too cowardly to do anything about it is wrong so could be failing to recognise when it is the right and proper thing to do to not only forgive, but reconcile with someone who is truly sorry, still loves you, whom you still love and there could also be others (kids) vested in the relationship.


:iagree:

Divorcing or attempting R, are not where cowardice or courage are defined, but in not choosing or choosing not to. That should complicate things. :rofl:

I really don't mean to do that.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Reconciliation is neither cowardice nor courage. It's just a choice one makes based on many emotions, of which fear is one, and other facts and circumstances. Speaking for myself, I could never reconcile and look myself in the mirror again; at least not without getting some significant form of payback .... but that's just me and my set of values. You will rarely find me recommending it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It is true.

SUCCESSFUL reconciliation. A coward will rug sweep and not face what is necessary to hold the WS accountable, enforce boundaries and grow as a person.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

I eventually chose reconciliation for emotional reasons and secondly for logical reasons. Emotionally because I had invested so much time and effort into our relationship and I loved her very much. Logically, I put a big stock into the fact that the had cheated on me back during the first five months of our relationship and I have reason to be confident that she hadn't cheated during the following 1 1/2 years. I had told myself that it is as brave to reconcile because it is so difficult. However, looking back, I probably chose to R because i was not brave enough. 

We're together, married now for a year, and there has been no signs or indication of cheating or making me feel insecure. Successful, right? No, not really. I eventually realized that she had settled for me because her lover was not interested in a real relationship with her. It still haunts me relentlessly. A successful R is probably one in which the BS feels that he/she did the right thing by reconciling and is fulfilled and happy in the relationship.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Having no back-bone can lead one to the decision to reconcile.
Having no back-bone can lead one to the decision to divorce.

It goes either way really!

For me, in the weeks after D-Day, I had no back-bone. I'd do what ever I thought was needed to salvage the marriage. Kowtowed, doted, lost my feelings of self worth, hung on to her as if I lost her I'd lose myself. In effect, I became the exact opposite of the man she married. Confident, pragmatic and emotionally strong. I had by my own actions, set the stage for her to fall deeper in love with POSOM. I compounded it by not placing healthy marital boundaries on her actions. The affair and her emotional ties to him escalated at an alarming rate.

My reasons for R were two fold. One, I still deeply loved her. Two, I didn't want to put the kids through a divorce. 

When the discussion of whether R is an act of bravery or an act of cowardice, it comes down to a few considerations.

Fear of the unknown. What will happen if the marriage fails? Initially this scared the crap out of me. I countered it by walking through that door in my mind. I looked at houses/apartments for rent, researched state laws about custody and divorce and even put together a "what if" budget.

Fear of financial loss. While it would have caused a change in life style, we wouldn't have gone bankrupt. There was very little debt and we both make a good coin.

Fear of being alone. I was a bachelor into my late 20s. I never felt alone and enjoyed my times of solitude. 

Fear of not finding someone else. Fifty, fit and financially self sufficient, I never feared that I wouldn't find someone new if I chose too.

Fear of your marriage failing. This did scare me. Of all my failures in life, I never felt my marriage would fail. We both came from strong Catholic families where divorce was uncommon. Both sets of parents honored "til death do us part" But in the end, when I put the marriage on the line and told here I was ready to divorce her if the A didn't end, I figured I'd done all I could to save it. I could walk away with pride.

For R to be an act of self determination, all the above fears must be accepted, beaten, digested, defecated and left on the side of the road. I don't consider my acts in saving my marriage, acts of bravery. But I will say doing so was the greatest challenge of my life. That I pushed myself emotionally further than I ever thought I could. That I developed a patience that I never knew I had. And that became a better man, father and husband for it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@Amplexor, just one question. Were you truly emotionally strong when you married her? If you were, would that strength not have been apparent when the challenges began?

I think emotional strength is often forged during challenges. And challenges reveal weaknesses we did not know we had.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

jld said:


> Amp, just one question. Were you truly emotionally strong when you married her? If you were, would that strength not have been apparent when the challenges began?
> 
> I think emotional strength is often forged during challenges. And challenges reveal weaknesses we did not know we had.


I would phrase the question and answer this way. Am I emotionally stronger now then when we married? Yes. Oddly I am emotionally healthier because I am more emotional. 

While still pragmatic about a lot of things today, my emotional core was hidden behind a facade of stoicism at the time of crisis. My pragmatism had served us in our marriage well during other times of crisis. Illness, death, issues with the kids. But it failed me when the marriage was at its end. I couldn't utilize it as the pain was just too great. 

Previously, my stoicism could only take me so far in dealing with everyday stress. It was replaced on occasion with periods of anger and detachment. It could be frightening for her and the kids to see. As the marriage deteriorated the episodes became more frequent. When the affair was discovered, the facade was shattered and I found myself with poor coping skills to deal with it. I couldn't deal with it with pragmatism. I couldn't hide from it behind anger. I was laid emotionally bare. My wife had never seen me this way. Facade or not, emotionally weak.

Over the three and a half years of the reconciliation of the marriage, I reconciled with my emotional self also. It's a better mix then it was before. I can be pragmatic when the situation calls for it but I can also open myself up an weep when I need to. So yes, I am emotionally healthier then I was when I married.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Your story reminds me of Day One. It is amazing the progress he has made.

I think sometimes stoicism is mistaken for emotional strength. I think empathy, along with not taking other people's emotions personally, is a strong sign of emotional strength. It takes a strong core to see a wife's weakness and not hold it against her, but to love her through it and inspire a vision of reconciliation for both of you.


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