# Is reconciliation even possible?



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

My ex and I divorced over a couple years ago shortly after I found out about a couple of her affairs by accident. She had no interest in reconciliation and tbh I didn't either, the spark was gone, I was open to the idea only for the kid. But her refusal made my choice very easy. I've moved on and life has been much better. 

Anyways, somehow I ended up on SI, some of the members were helpful, some not so much. Although I no longer post there, I occassionally poke my head in when I'm bored and I'm starting to see so many people that were in reconciliation when I was there and now they are on the divorce forum. Like a handful all of a sudden. Lots of them seem to reach a point after trying where they just can't deal with it anymore or their wayward throws in the towel.

I was just thinking how lucky I am compared to these people wasting 3 more years of their life before ending in divorce. All the MC, all the monitoring, all the resentment and playing nice for nothing. My only advice for someone here that ends up on the betrayed side is to not rush into reconciliation and take some time apart and figure out if you can live with it. The statistics don't look good.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Reconciliation is possible, but not probable. Way too many betrayed persons simply rug sweep.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Reconciliation only works if the horrible gaping wound is attended to 1st, and then therapy for any chronic condition is applied. This is what I mean… the 1st order of business is to deal with the horrible pain the affair has afflicted upon the betrayed spouse the wayward spouse need to do anything and everything in their power to bring about this healing and to prove through consistent option that they are remorseful and have changed. In addition To and after the bleeding has been stopped, then both spouses must work to create a marriage that is loving and intimate again. This is where one of the hardest things ever must take place. The spouse who has been horribly hurt must decide that that betrayal will not be the plumb line for the entire relationship and the trump card for ever held close to their chest. That takes immense commitment, and most people will not choose to lie that card down. A lot of times the reason is because the wayward spouse did not do their part. At any rate, and less both spouses are willing to see a new marriage in a new light, there is no reconciliation.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

And no matter how hard I try, talk to text hates me. Just do the best you can with that folks


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I reconciled only because my husband swore it would never happen again. But years later it did. I wasn't foolish enough to stay after Round Two. 

I would say it works for a few but not many.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

True R is rare. I think a lot just stay together. But it is a choice


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My ex and I divorced over a couple years ago shortly after I found out about a couple of her affairs by accident. She had no interest in reconciliation and tbh I didn't either, the spark was gone, I was open to the idea only for the kid. But her refusal made my choice very easy. I've moved on and life has been much better.
> 
> Anyways, somehow I ended up on SI, some of the members were helpful, some not so much. Although I no longer post there, I occassionally poke my head in when I'm bored and I'm starting to see so many people that were in reconciliation when I was there and now they are on the divorce forum. Like a handful all of a sudden. Lots of them seem to reach a point after trying where they just can't deal with it anymore or their wayward throws in the towel.
> 
> I was just thinking how lucky I am compared to these people wasting 3 more years of their life before ending in divorce. All the MC, all the monitoring, all the resentment and playing nice for nothing. My only advice for someone here that ends up on the betrayed side is to not rush into reconciliation and take some time apart and figure out if you can live with it. The statistics don't look good.


Many years ago, even before I was born, there was a very famous and popular radio programme on the BBC called: "The Brains Trust."

A panel of extremely erudite and learned people would discuss very important issues of the day.

One panel member was a philosopher called Professor Joad. Whenever Professor Joad was asked a question he would always preface his answer by saying: "It all depends what you mean by..."

So it all depends what you mean by reconciliation. 

For example:-

Reconciliation with someone who cheated due to a manic episode of an undiagnosed mental health problem?

Reconciliation after a, confessed, drunken one night stand?

Reconciliation with a serial cheater?

So, in some cases reconciliation is possible, in other cases, no.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

I am approaching three years of R. I caught my wife in an affair on Veterans Day 2015. Was it easy? No. Was it worth it? Absolutely. @personof interest nailed it. My wife realized what she did to me, and after finding our from my son I was suffering from PTSD, she felt absolutely horrible. I found it in my heart to make an attempt at R as we had been married almost thirty years when she cheated. She has done many things to show remorse and help me heal, and we are doing better than we have been in years now. I got my **** consolidated as did she. 

Many on this site thought I was a lunatic, but time has proven to us that I/we made the right decision. The key to r is true remorse, lots of prayer, much forgiveness. Nothing is impossible. There are no unwinnable situations.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> So, in some cases reconciliation is possible, in other cases, no.


I often mention this as a "barometer". If, when the wayward is confronted, and no-contact is demanded by the betrayed, there is an immediate (and verifiable) end to the affair, there is a chance.

If the phone call delays for 10 minutes after the demand ? Go get a lawyer and get rid of the wayward. Next business day.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Some good insight here.....

I would just add this.....

In addition to everything that must be seen from and done by the WS to have R be even a possibility, IMO a BS has to do some honest self-reflection too.

What I mean is this.....some BS just simply cannot forgive an A, yet many of them desperately try to R for various reasons anyway.

One poster over at SI (those of you who post/read there will know who I am talking about) tried to R for 5 years before he finally admitted to himself it was hopeless.....and another has just wasted several years trying R with someone he KNEW was still not giving him the whole truth and he was never going to be able to accept the continued lying and gaslighting, yet he kept spinning his wheels in false R for an eternity.

IMO, a BS knows themselves better than anyone......they KNOW from DDay if they will never truly forgive the A......they know their M can at best be a poor, dysfunctional shadow of itself.

Just as some BS know right from the start that IF they see true remorse and genuine healing actions from their WS then they can eventually put it in the past and rebuild a better M.

I think many BS need to be more honest with themselves about their own capacity for true R....

And if they know they will never truly accept the situation, then they should move to end the M as painlessly as possible.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My ex and I divorced over a couple years ago shortly after I found out about a couple of her affairs by accident. She had no interest in reconciliation and tbh I didn't either, the spark was gone, I was open to the idea only for the kid. But her refusal made my choice very easy. I've moved on and life has been much better.
> 
> Anyways, somehow I ended up on SI, some of the members were helpful, some not so much. Although I no longer post there, I occassionally poke my head in when I'm bored and I'm starting to see so many people that were in reconciliation when I was there and now they are on the divorce forum. Like a handful all of a sudden. Lots of them seem to reach a point after trying where they just can't deal with it anymore or their wayward throws in the towel.
> 
> I was just thinking how lucky I am compared to these people wasting 3 more years of their life before ending in divorce. All the MC, all the monitoring, all the resentment and playing nice for nothing. My only advice for someone here that ends up on the betrayed side is to not rush into reconciliation and take some time apart and figure out if you can live with it. The statistics don't look good.


For most the answers is no. Because for all they are in a relationship with someone who is broken, you can R until the person commits to getting better. Most don't have that in them to do. It usually requires changing your self as a person and long standing patterns that took a lifetime to build which work in a lot of ways for a WS. So it is a monumental task. 

Also I don't think most really have an idea what they are getting into. If you think there is a chance you are going back to the marriage you once had you are going to be disappointing. I agree with the above post that only the BS knows what they can accept, and accepting is the key word, to R is to accept less then what might have been. Not necessarily what could be with someone else. I am not sure most BS know this going into it. They only find out year later. 

The shame is that SI most of the time peddles false hope, prolongs people's suffering and makes them feel like there is something wrong that they can't do the impossible. What's worse is it's set up in such a way as to prevent from doing anything differently because it doesn't allow decent.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

TJW said:


> I often mention this as a "barometer". If, when the wayward is confronted, and no-contact is demanded by the betrayed, there is an immediate (and verifiable) end to the affair, there is a chance.
> 
> If the phone call delays for 10 minutes after the demand ? Go get a lawyer and get rid of the wayward. Next business day.


I think there is something to this. My husband and I are reconciled, I believe we are in a good place, lots of lessons learned and growth as a couple. 

I could write a book about what we have been through, but I will try to keep this brief. First, while we both cheated, him on a business trip, then online/ phone calls for a month or so after that. I had some, hum, scandalous physical affairs spanning a few months. 

So in many ways, I think our situation is a bit different than couples who endure long lasting affairs, or ones that involve falling in love etc. 

For us, reconciliation has been possible (9 years since his cheating, three since mine). It took individual counseling. It took humility. It took honesty, and vulnerability, and remorse, and empathy and a real commitment to making things right. 

When I confronted him, at first he denied but then quickly folded. We called her, everything was set straight (I am not mad at her, he lied to her). He was going through a lot at the time, death of his father, depression, was just off the rails. We actually didn’t do couples counseling but rather individual counseling. 

When *I* came off the rails years later, I spilled ALL the beans the moment he confronted me with suspicion. And the OM was called that night. 

I never spoke to the other man again after that. 

One thing that certainly helped me, is that I had been reading a lot on a board similar to this before D Day. I had a better understanding of what I had done, and what I needed to do to alleviate the damage. 

Linda McDonalds guide “How to heal your spouse” was my bible, and I tried to do everything he needed me to do. 

In the end, the process brought us closer. We had NOTHING left to lose, so we let it all out and got honest in a way we never had before. Honest with each other and honest with ourselves. 

Those deepest, darkest skeletons in the closet, the things we had never revealed to any one - were things we now shared. Why not, after all, we were laying it all out, good and bad, to see what we had. 

In the end it was love. Despite the warts, and mistakes, and selfishness, and flaws. It was a greater understanding of our strengths and our weaknesses. And in the end, that is what made us stronger. 

Could we have gotten to this point without making such a mess, maybe. But while “I Shouldn’t have” done what I have done, I am thankful for what I have learned.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

I shouldnthave said:


> I think there is something to this. My husband and I are reconciled, I believe we are in a good place, lots of lessons learned and growth as a couple.
> 
> I could write a book about what we have been through, but I will try to keep this brief. First, while we both cheated, him on a business trip, then online/ phone calls for a month or so after that. I had some, hum, scandalous physical affairs spanning a few months.
> 
> ...


My God I wish my wife and I were friends of you and your husband. We would learn so much from you guys. We had the same situation. I cheated 16 years ago, she did it 3 years ago. Many here had told me to forget it. There are no changes in my marriage but when I read some of your posts, it give me some hope and light to go on. Pity my PMs won't work.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

sokillme said:


> The shame is that SI most of the time peddles false hope, prolongs people's suffering and makes them feel like there is something wrong that they can't do the impossible. What's worse is it's set up in such a way as to prevent from doing anything differently because it doesn't allow decent.


I've noticed that too. I'd certainly say it is Pro-R geared. I've heard many pro-R types there say the betrayed is too hurt at first to make a rational decision on whether to end the marriage. Give it 6 months and reevaluate etc... What a bunch of horses&!t! Unless you act swiftly and with resolve, its very likely your wayward will just walk all over you and your suffering will be prolonged. Their has to be some repurcussions early on even if you decide to R, whether it be kicking them out of your house or filing for D. Not just jump immediately into MC, put a tracker on their car and have an open door policy when they have to use the bathroom. Thats not R, that's babysitting.

Also, every wayward has a ready made excuse by the site's advocation of 'the Fog' as to why they relapse. Or comparing it to heroin. That never set right with me. Even if they had a symbolic needle in their arm, why is that even entertained? If after wrecking your spouse, that is not enough to send you cold turkey, than what would? It usually take divorce papers it anything.

I just think the site's mission is too biased and often gives too many people false hope and so the divorce now crowd there is always lampooned.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Anyways, somehow I ended up on SI, some of the members were helpful, some not so much. Although I no longer post there, I occassionally poke my head in when I'm bored and I'm starting to see so many people that were in reconciliation when I was there and now they are on the divorce forum. Like a handful all of a sudden. Lots of them seem to reach a point after trying where they just can't deal with it anymore or their wayward throws in the towel.


 We had a very long thread here awhile back about SI but I think it was deleted because it called the site out for what it is and got pretty vitriolic.


I'm not surprised at all that those who sung the loudest about how wonderful reconciliation is and how those who chose to divorce 'took the easy way out' are now finding out where all that delusion got them. Make no mistake - there's plenty of delusion going on over there, with members constantly telling each other that all their cheater has to do is go to therapy and they can reconcile. And if their cheater 'shows remorse' (which so many cheaters FAKE), then they're good to go and should be able to reconcile.

And a good many BS's also delude themselves into thinking their cheater cheated because of childhood issues or some kind of disorder, etc. etc. None of them want to admit that their cheater did it because they wanted to and wanted the excitement and once they started the affair, they grew an emotional bond to their affair partner and THAT'S why the affair wen on as long as it did. Not because of FOO issues or any other nonsense.

They're so busy deluding each other over there on the Reconciliation board that I cringe FOR them when I've read their posts. The same desperate posters you see on the Recon board today - trying to tell each other that they made the right decision and to stick with it no matter what suspicious crap their cheater is still up to - will one day likely be found posting either in the Divorce section or back in the Just Found Out section - *again. *You see posts like that every day over there - past members posting "I'm here again..." 

Yeah, it's a Hopium Den over there. They seem to believe if a cheater 'does the work' - goes to therapy and digs DEEP to find out why they cheated (we already* know* why most of them cheat, I mean come on) but if the cheater comes up with some pseudo psycho-babble reason in therapy and it makes the BS feel better about staying, then it's all good. 

I'm glad they weren't able to delude you into thinking reconciliation was a good idea with that hot mess you were married to. Otherwise, you'd be one of the masses over there now posting in the Divorce section or the Just Found Out section for the 2nd or 3rd time.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Also, every wayward has a ready made excuse by the site's advocation of 'the Fog' as to why they relapse.


OMG. Is that not one of the most pathetic things you've ever heard? That their cheater is 'in the fog' and therefore isn't capable of making rational decisions? The desperate notions they'll cling to rather than face the cold, hard truth. Good lord.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Reconciliation. No for me dawg.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I've noticed that too. I'd certainly say it is Pro-R geared. I've heard many pro-R types there say the betrayed is too hurt at first to make a rational decision on whether to end the marriage. Give it 6 months and reevaluate etc... What a bunch of horses&!t! Unless you act swiftly and with resolve, its very likely your wayward will just walk all over you and your suffering will be prolonged. Their has to be some repurcussions early on even if you decide to R, whether it be kicking them out of your house or filing for D. Not just jump immediately into MC, put a tracker on their car and have an open door policy when they have to use the bathroom. Thats not R, that's babysitting.
> 
> Also, every wayward has a ready made excuse by the site's advocation of 'the Fog' as to why they relapse. Or comparing it to heroin. That never set right with me. Even if they had a symbolic needle in their arm, why is that even entertained? If after wrecking your spouse, that is not enough to send you cold turkey, than what would? It usually take divorce papers it anything.
> 
> I just think the site's mission is too biased and often gives too many people false hope and so the divorce now crowd there is always lampooned.


Sadly, the whole FOG thing didn't originate at SA. It originated at another site which I won't name so the marriage NSA/mafia won't come hunt me down lol


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I've noticed that too. I'd certainly say it is Pro-R geared. I've heard many pro-R types there say the betrayed is too hurt at first to make a rational decision on whether to end the marriage. Give it 6 months and reevaluate etc... What a bunch of horses&!t! Unless you act swiftly and with resolve, its very likely your wayward will just walk all over you and your suffering will be prolonged. Their has to be some repurcussions early on even if you decide to R, whether it be kicking them out of your house or filing for D. Not just jump immediately into MC, put a tracker on their car and have an open door policy when they have to use the bathroom. Thats not R, that's babysitting.
> 
> Also, every wayward has a ready made excuse by the site's advocation of 'the Fog' as to why they relapse. Or comparing it to heroin. That never set right with me. Even if they had a symbolic needle in their arm, why is that even entertained? If after wrecking your spouse, that is not enough to send you cold turkey, than what would? It usually take divorce papers it anything.
> 
> I just think the site's mission is too biased and often gives too many people false hope and so the divorce now crowd there is always lampooned.


The thing is that even in the supposedly happy R the responses you often see seem to be saying, well I am happy now (which I don't doubt that some are but then to paraphrase the post reads like this --), My marriage used to be the priority in my life, now I am the priority, I no longer feel about the spouse I once did, before he/she was my world but now they are just someone I live with. Before our relationship was my primary focus, now my primary focus is myself. Before I loved them deeply as my soulmate, now we have a different marriage where we are basically a business partnership with benefits. I have no doubt people can be happy in that situation, but seems like they are really limiting themselves and the potential relationships they COULD have in their lives. 

Um I guess if that is what you want to settle for, but I often wonder why is there never a response like, "Why are you willing to live your whole life where this is all you get out of the primary relationship in your life?" I mean that's not what I would want, I would want better. It's like to be able to stay in the marriage they settle and to be able to settle they have to accept that they really don't care about the marriage and really don't like their spouse much. So the marriage is basically a zombie marriage where in order to stay you have to not care about it or the person you are with. And yet there are people posting in those threads about what a happy post that is?

I'm sorry but most of the time even the supposed happy responses seem like settling where in order to stay in the marriage you have to really give up caring much about it. That is not a good answer in my mind, especially when it's very possible to have a new relationship with someone who is trustworthy without having to kill your love for them to be able to stay with them. I'm sorry but most R just seem fear driven.

The other thing is say you decide to live in this zombie marriage what if you meet someone else whom you actually fell like you could have a great love with again. Do you just dump you partner then? That doesn't seem right, especially if the reason you stayed was because of fear. I often wonder if the people who stay have only really only been in love with their cheating partner so they don't know any better. Know that there are better relationships and know that you can fall in love just as deeply and as hard as you did with the one who betrayed you. 

Oh and the fog just means a willingness to act on sexual and or emotional attraction and damned the consequences and who you hurt, it's not some cloud that envelopes people causing them to lose their mind. Everyone meets people in their lives that they feel attraction to, and most of us have the potential to have relationships with many people, even if that many is a small sample size of the population, it still adds up to lots of people in our lifetime. The difference is faithful people stay out of situations that contribute that attraction, and if they can't do that because of work or whatever it is they don't act on it or even acknowledge it. Just like when you are at a store and you know that you want something and you could steal it if you wanted to but you don't because you know it's wrong. Do you desire something, sure but desire doesn't mean you deserve to have it or it's good for you. The fog just means desire and people being *******s.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

We used to have a member here who used to blame the husband for the wife cheating. They would advise the BH to basically kowtow and kiss the WW ass, exactly the opposite of what actually works. For a lot of men, this is actually their knee jerk reaction to finding out their W has been unfaithful, (we see it here all the time!) so there were those who fell for this advice...only to find themselves being beaten down even further by doing so, because NO woman will have any respect for a man who acts this way. Was very hard watching these men who were already desperate for R go through even more pain. 

Women, however, when they came here broken over a cheating husband, were told by this poster to dump the worthless SOB. Hard and fast. 

I have never wandered into SI due to what has been discussed here about that site. I'd be banned in the first 10 minutes!


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

sokillme said:


> The thing is that even in the supposedly happy R the responses you often see seem to be saying, well I am happy now (which I don't doubt that some are but then to paraphrase the post reads like this --), My marriage used to be the priority in my life, now I am the priority, I no longer feel about the spouse I once did, before he/she was my world but now they are just someone I live with. Before our relationship was my primary focus, now my primary focus is myself. Before I loved them deeply as my soulmate, now we have a different marriage where we are basically a business partnership with benefits. I have no doubt people can be happy in that situation, but seems like they are really limiting themselves and the potential relationships they COULD have in their lives.
> 
> Um I guess if that is what you want to settle for, but I often wonder why is there never a response like, "Why are you willing to live your whole life where this is all you get out of the primary relationship in your life?" I mean that's not what I would want, I would want better. It's like to be able to stay in the marriage they settle and to be able to settle they have to accept that they really don't care about the marriage and really don't like their spouse much. So the marriage is basically a zombie marriage where in order to stay you have to not care about it or the person you are with. And yet there are people posting in those threads about what a happy post that is?
> 
> ...


R is all fear driven. Fear of losing half your stuff, fear of losing half the time with your children, fear of life after divorce. I get that, I was in that spot. Scared ****less, but all that happens is a new normal. And its never nearly as bad as you think. Its just staying is easier because it requires no action, its more about self-preservation than some self-deluded gift. But no doubt its harder in the long run trying to salvage something that is inherently broken. Moving on and loving someone else without all the baggage is far easier.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

3Xnocharm said:


> We used to have a member here who used to blame the husband for the wife cheating. They would advise the BH to basically kowtow and kiss the WW ass, exactly the opposite of what actually works. For a lot of men, this is actually their knee jerk reaction to finding out their W has been unfaithful, (we see it here all the time!) so there were those who fell for this advice...only to find themselves being beaten down even further by doing so, because NO woman will have any respect for a man who acts this way. Was very hard watching these men who were already desperate for R go through even more pain.
> 
> Women, however, when they came here broken over a cheating husband, were told by this poster to dump the worthless SOB. Hard and fast.
> 
> I have never wandered into SI due to what has been discussed here about that site. I'd be banned in the first 10 minutes!


Yea, its kind of counter intuitive, but I notice those that go nuclear from the get go end up with a WW that they can't get rid of. Usually those guys aren't interested in R though. 

Then there are those that do it all wrong, treat their WW with kid gloves, keep moving red lines and allow their WW to fence sit. Then they end up finding themselves served by their WW who lost all respect for them, but not until after a few months of tearing their guts out and serving it to them. No self-respect...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> R is all fear driven. Fear of losing half your stuff, fear of losing half the time with your children, fear of life after divorce. I get that, I was in that spot. Scared ****less, but all that happens is a new normal. And its never nearly as bad as you think. Its just staying is easier because it requires no action, its more about self-preservation than some self-deluded gift. But no doubt its harder in the long run trying to salvage something that is inherently broken. Moving on and loving someone else without all the baggage is far easier.


Amen brother. It is def fear driven. But all of this stuff is fear driven. 

The affairs, and the people that stay. The low sex/no sex... Fear. Taking abuse...Fear. 

Now, for me, I was just stupid so maybe that is some of it as well. I thought that I was "doing the right thing", "Wanted to be there for the kids", all of the standard. 

For me I can't say that it was fear, now I just think I was really stupid for a while...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

What about who you are married to. Like I personally would lose respect for some people with the stories I hear, how do you spend the rest of your life with someone you have NO respect for. I would SO MUCH rather be alone. At least when you are alone there is hope. 

I just don't get it.

Frankly I lose respect for some people who stay with these *******s.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

WW doe not relapse because of the fog. WW relapse because of the 
addiction to their AP. Brain chemistry during the affair causes addictive
responses. As with any addict the WW needs a fix of her addictive 
substance, the OM to get their high met. Along with the rewriting of
their marriage history to falsely justify the affair.

The BH does not do what has to be done to kill the affair. Instead 
they only cherry pick the easy things to do. Only want to be told the
things they want to hear not what must be done. Though I will say when
a BH gets hit with his WW having an affair it is as if he was in the ring 
with the heavy weight champion, he has been hit so hard he does not
even know where his own corner is. It can take a BH 6 months to get
his sea legs back after D day. So he can think clearly.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I still think the person who has the clearest and most realistic view about R on any website on the net is Chumplady.

EVERY BS should take a long time reading on her site before they consider trying to R IMO.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Honestly BS's seem foggier than their WS most of the time. You cant save the impossible.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

It seems like the odds are stacked so much against successful reconciliation that it's better to just file for divorce immediately. Who would bother flipping a coin 10 times hoping to get 10 heads? No, file for divorce because: 1) divorce is the likely outcome anyway, so get started asap, and 2) it's the only way you'll see if your spouse is willing to do the work to improve the odds.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Honestly BS's seem foggier than their WS most of the time. You cant save the impossible.


You know, it is easy looking back at what some of us have been through to say that they are foggy.

But, remember what it was like when it happened? Your mind is not thinking clearly. I really have no ****ing idea what to do.

For me, it was not the sex that was an issue, or the guy, I was and always will be twice the man that he ever could hope to be. It was the lying, it was keeping the family together. 

What if you are one of those guys that was not really that good in bed, the was really not that attractive and super insecure. And she chose to cheat with a 6'4 stud??? What about that?

How hard is it for those guy, can you imagine??

And sometimes the guy cannot be convinced that he is making a mistake?

There are a lot of variables, I wish they would all listen but they don't... 

I mean, some people you cannot help, they have to learn the hard way. 

You know what I mean???


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Dyokemm said:


> I still think the person who has the clearest and most realistic view about R on any website on the net is Chumplady.
> 
> EVERY BS should take a long time reading on her site before they consider trying to R IMO.


 Chump Lady/Tracy was banned at SI because she refused to drink the Kool-Aid and kept it *real*.

Oh no - can't have any of that!! :surprise:

All the butt-hurt mods and admins who claim to be 'happily reconciled' - and who'll also likely end up posting "I'm here again..." in Just Found Out one day down the road - made *sure* to find some phony trumped up charges to pin on her in order to boot her out. They're famous for doing that.

There's no room for *reality* in Delusion Land, thank you very much. :rofl:


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

In the end...We are all sponges that absorb the experiences in the world around us. And infidelity along with betrayal seems to hit a spot in our brains that leaves an indelible mark.

[ My marriage used to be the priority in my life, now I am the priority, I no longer feel about the spouse I once did, before he/she was my world but now they are just someone I live with.] ----This is so true. The pedestal no longer exists. 

The orginal "bargain" if you will, that was made on wedding day.....Has been changed. Maybe some BS's cling to the past hoping for the orginal deal, while others just realize to stick a fork in it! The marriage is done. They didn't sign up for the new deal. And will have non of it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Chump Lady/Tracy was banned at SI because she refused to drink the Kool-Aid and kept it *real*.
> 
> Oh no - can't have any of that!! :surprise:
> 
> ...


She is a member here though and posts every once in a while.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I read and post over there for a different perspective. It seems considerably more of the new male posters are doormats and I'm not sure why that is. Maybe it's a Google word search thing. I post the same as I would here and have only had one short ban. It does carry a bit more "bang your head against the wall" :banghead: because of the new doormats who will NOT listen to advice and take any little change or the 1% opinion as confirmation bias that their choice was right. But many seem to get it after they needlessly abuse themselves for a while and then there are the ones who, as mentioned by SSGI, do the I'm here again 3/4/5 times.

Re: Affair Fog. I believe there is an affair fog but it sure as hell isn't an excuse. It's just the Wayward being so myopic and self-centered they can only focus on their fantasy affair partner. The breaking of the "fog" is usually nothing more than the realization they screwed themselves either by being dumped by the AP or recognizing their meal ticket is done. It's just the "Oh ****" epiphany.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> You know, it is easy looking back at what some of us have been through to say that they are foggy.
> 
> But, remember what it was like when it happened? Your mind is not thinking clearly. I really have no ****ing idea what to do.
> 
> ...


There is a lot of things wrong with this thinking and it's why people but especially men get into so much trouble with all this. All of this depends on what you think it the most valuable in life. For me I really don't think my sex prowess or how tall I am really matters much in my marriage or to my worth as a person or a man. I believe my character does and frankly that has more to do with my own inner code and how I handle responsibility and relationships then it does what others think about me. Are my intentions honorable. Don't get me wrong I think it is important that I satisfy my wife but sex assuming there are no medical issues is more about communications anyway. If you are not lazy then anyone can become great sex partners if they practice and both are willing to communicate what they want. I also think you can't really compete with the passion of "new" if that is what you are trying to do, but assuming you had a good start with your partner you should have had that at some point with them too. But if that is what it's about I refuse to compete when the rules aren't fair anyway. I am not going on that trip with you. I will never love anyone enough to do that. I don't believe love is more important then my own self worth. How can I truly love someone if it doesn't come from a place of confidence anyway. 

Thing is I don't think of myself as incapable of finding someone who is just as passionate about me as the affair you described. If my wife doesn't feel that way someone else will. They have before.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

personofinterest said:


> ...This is where one of the hardest things ever must take place. The spouse who has been horribly hurt *must decide that that betrayal will not be the plumb line for the entire relationship and the trump card for ever held close to their chest.* That takes immense commitment, and most people will not *choose to lie that card down.*


For the first few years during R, I played the *Trump Card *whenever a disagreement arose. My WW even called it that. Yeah, it shut her argument down cold, but it also shut her down as well as or marriage. 

9 years out from DD, I still hold it close though rarely used. My IC referred to it as my _security blanket_... as in a *"A warm fuzzy blanket of pain."*


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> The breaking of the "fog" is usually nothing more than the realization they screwed themselves either by being dumped by the AP or recognizing their meal ticket is done. It's just the "Oh ****" epiphany.


"Oh ****" epiphany describes it so well. It's that moment in time where she recognizes that her AP filled her full of horse$hit and lies, so he could get in her pants, and her faithful, loving, sacrificial, truth-telling spouse who worked his butt off for her is now DONE.....

And, that a cold day in hell is going to happen before "reconciliation".....


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

sokillme said:


> There is a lot of things wrong with this thinking and it's why people but especially men get into so much trouble with all this. All of this depends on what you think it the most valuable in life. For me I really don't think my sex prowess or how tall I am really matters much in my marriage or to my worth as a person or a man. I believe my character does and frankly that has more to do with my own inner code and how I handle responsibility and relationships then it does what others think about me. Are my intentions honorable. Don't get me wrong I think it is important that I satisfy my wife but sex assuming there are no medical issues is more about communications anyway. If you are not lazy then anyone can become great sex partners if they practice and both are willing to communicate what they want. I also think you can't really compete with the passion of "new" if that is what you are trying to do, but assuming you had a good start with your partner you should have had that at some point with them too. But if that is what it's about I refuse to compete when the rules aren't fair anyway. I am not going on that trip with you. I will never love anyone enough to do that. I don't believe love is more important then my own self worth. How can I truly love someone if it doesn't come from a place of confidence anyway.
> 
> Thing is I don't think of myself as incapable of finding someone who is just as passionate about me as the affair you described. If my wife doesn't feel that way someone else will. They have before.


This is not really where I was going in that last post. 

What I am saying is how hard it would be for someone that is sexually insecure to deal with any of this. 

I can't imagine. And yes, sorry to say, I am sure that I am shallow, my sexual abilities are part of my total make up. 

But my situation, I don't believe was as hard as some of these guys have to deal with. I still say, after growing older and wiser, divorce is the solution to these types of problems. For me. Not that if I ever had a wife that was honest and actually doing everything she needed to do, that I would not at least consider it. 

But now, if that ever happen to me, that would be the end of the Relationship, it is not something I will ever deal with...


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

First; Reconciliation is possible. We are living proof that it can be repaired, and be hugely successful, if I do say so myself. We have been reconciled for now over 30 years. Second: Take absolutely no reference for any actions from that despicable website known as SI. I go there once in a while. To be frank, they seem to be judgemental animals over there, AND, half the stuff said is neither helpful nor remotely thoughtful. If you refuse to buy their inherent philosophy, you are usually cut down then cut out. I have had clients banned for suggesting an overriding need to D, and I had one or two be told they are scum for having revenge (sexual and non sexual) on their wayward partner. If my career has taught me anything, it is that every situation is unique in its own way. Cookie cutting reactions to life situations rarely works. Each situation is as different as the people involved. There are couples that are cut out for reconciliation, and there are couples that had no business being together in the first place. The trick is to determine in which camp the people would be most suited, and to assist in directing them to their ultimate destination. I must reiterate, that SI has a definite bias toward R, but their delivery sucks, and I can't help feeling that the initial reactions over there are extreme, and potentially damaging.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> cookie cutting reactions to life situations rarely works.


amen!!!


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

For me reconciliation wouldn't ever be possible, I get that, what I've never been able to grasp is: how can people live and be able to look at themselves in the mirror, after taking back a cheating partner??


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> For me reconciliation wouldn't ever be possible, I get that, what I've never been able to grasp is: how can people live and be able to look at themselves in the mirror, after taking back a cheating partner??


Maybe it comes down to a cost/benefit analysis: How much is your self-respect and lack of respect from your cheater worth? Basically what will you lose if you divorce them? The most common:

1. Are you too close to retirement and the hit would be too big in divorce then maybe that is the compromise you make if you can tolerate their existence for another 20-30 years...

2. If you have kids, how will custody work? No one likes split custody, but is it so bad that you are willing to swallow some pride, atleast until they are out of the house? But then that leads to the sunk cost fallacy of #1.

I don't know. Not worth it to me. Every day you stay is another day you could have lived more than a life of tolerable existence with someone you can't trust and doesn't respect you.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@UpsideDownWorld11

Those are some good points to consider. Thanks.

Knowing myself, I think that I would be able to commit economical suicide, before continuing living with, and seeing the face of the cheating partner. 
I have always mantained that if my partner were to ever cheat on me, the moment that I were to find out, that's the last time she would see or hear from me. I would let the lawyer do the talking.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> For me reconciliation wouldn't ever be possible, I get that, what I've never been able to grasp is: how can people live and be able to look at themselves in the mirror, after taking back a cheating partner??


I'd like to propose something here.... that "staying" and "reconciliation" are not at all equivalent. I stayed, yes, I stayed in the same house - but there wasn't any reconciliation, the marriage itself was quite dead. It was an "emotional divorce"...I was no longer involved with her in a romantic way.....there was no "taking back".... However, I was "there" to support (and protect) my sons, to avoid "financial suicide".


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TJW said:


> I'd like to propose something here.... that "staying" and "reconciliation" are not at all equivalent. I stayed, yes, I stayed in the same house - but there wasn't any reconciliation, the marriage itself was quite dead. It was an "emotional divorce"...I was no longer involved with her in a romantic way.....there was no "taking back".... However, I was "there" to support (and protect) my sons, to avoid "financial suicide".


Do you plan on leaving when they are grown? If you never plan on leaving then your basically sacrificed the hope of potential romantic gain for a financial one. That would be a cost way to high for me to pay. I feel like I could always make more money.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Do you plan on leaving when they are grown?


That was the plan. Although, tragically, she died of liver failure when one son was an adult and the younger, not yet. Thankfully, he wasn't at a tender age.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

TJW said:


> That was the plan. Although, tragically, she died of liver failure when one son was an adult and the younger, not yet. Thankfully, he wasn't at a tender age.


I'm sorry for your loss. how have you handled being a single dad?
Sorry one other question at the end did she apologize to you before she died?


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Ignore this post.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

I think I handled it ok. Thankfully, I didn't have to do it for long. And, I didn't have real young kids. It could have been much worse.

I'm not sure whether she tried to apologize, or not. I thought so, but it was rather incoherent and her doctor told me not to give anything she said much credence. 

She said to me once, before her illness overtook her, "...I'm sorry that _this_ has hurt you...."....I thought that was evasive, an avoidance of ownership. It's not possible for me to judge, really. Only she knew.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> For me reconciliation wouldn't ever be possible, I get that, what I've never been able to grasp is: how can people live and be able to look at themselves in the mirror, after taking back a cheating partner??


If you can't in any way relate to reconciliation and/or forgiveness then yes the whole mirror thing would be an issue, I could totally get that. 
I have reconciled with wife from her one month affair over 5 years ago. I look at myself very well in the mirror and I am fine. Did my ego take a hit? Absolutely, but in no way do I feel I lack self respect. Her affair was totally on her and a reflection of her issues, not one damn thibg to do with me. Since her affair I have become a much better person, achieved great career goals and financial, traveled all over the world, take new hobbies and she has gone thru a lot of self recovery and as a couple we have endured many many good and bad new memories.... Ie. The death of my dad, her battle with uterian cancer and hysterectomy, etc... Which have really taken us to a new relationship level that's nothing at all like before her affair.
No I haven't forgot what she did and what she is capable of, that would be unwise, but it doesn't consume me or trigger me anymore, I see a new person in her now. 
So it is possible to reconcile , I just suspect many people don't care to report it, why would they gain from it? Reconciliation sucks and it's hard ugly work, and my kids were young then. 

And also again I say it over and over, don't live life thinking that only your spouse can betray you.... I have seen people get betrayed horribly by their friends, parents, siblings and even sons or daughters..... Betrayal hurts, and it doesn't have to be sexual all the time.


Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@CantBelieveThis: thanks for your input. Yes, family and friends can also betrayed you. As a matter of fact, my father has been dead to me for the last 41 years, but the ****er is still alive.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Do you plan on leaving when they are grown? If you never plan on leaving then your basically sacrificed the hope of potential romantic gain for a financial one. That would be a cost way to high for me to pay. I feel like I could always make more money.


Not everyone can get all the high paying employment that they want. For many
walking away from that high paying job will leave them never being able to get
another job at that level again.


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## anotherbrokenguy (Dec 15, 2017)

I agree with the every situation is unique philosophy. Only the two people in the marriage can figure it out - for me - reconciliation was not a possibility.


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