# LD partners, I don't get it!



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah yeah, same old thread, probably no new perspective, but hopefully trying to get some solid thoughts on this.

My wife is LD, big time. 2-3 times a month of what IS duty sex (but it's good).

She is the LD person who LIKES sex *when it's happening* but can not, under any circumstance, ever initiate (other than the standard "well, it's been a while, I'd better throw him a bone" here).

Honestly, it's infuriating. It makes NO sense to me. I KNOW she's no different than other LD spouses, but we all tend to think "mine is different" 

The thing that I don't get is, as I said above, she loves sex when we're having it. It's good. SHE'S good. There's nothing she won't do. She has multiple orgasms. It's getting her to actually do it that's a challenge.

I don't bug her, I don't hound her, I don't whine and complain. (well, I DO, but not then and there, on the spot, if you know what I mean). I save these conversations for times that are outside of "sex time".

She's made progress over the years, in that she does recognize this is an issue. She no longer feels that I should feel the way she does, as most LD spouses do. I give her credit for a lot of things on this subject. But she still doesn't get it.

The other day, after about 10 days of nothing (and ample opportunities, but always an excuse), I sat her down again. I asked her "what's so difficult about showing me you're available?" Her reply was that she's not "that" type of woman. She listed off a number of chances that I "missed" over the past few weeks. Chances that I would literally have had to be a mind reader to have recognized. She insists that I could have had my way with her a number of times, but because I didn't show any interest, I missed out.

So same old, same old. I responded by saying that that is massively unfair, in that 99% of the time I make an attempt, I am turned down. So the rare instances in which, in her mind, I can "get lucky", it's my fault for not making a move.

I tell her she has to be more forceful and OBVIOUS when I should be making a move. That's when she says "that's not who I am".

I suggest many ways to show me she's interested that don't involve me being the Great Kreskin. Among them: "touch me. Grab my ___" She said that does nothing for her. I say it's not about her, it's about showing your intent to ME. She won't do that. I say "kiss me passionately". She won't do that because, hell, I don't even know... She just won't.

This is so frustrating. She ENJOYS sex. A lot. But at the same time, she can (and has said so) she could go the rest of her life without it. What?

She has told me she has NEVER been horny, ever. Ever. Outside of being in the actual act, she has never thought about sex, felt the urge to have sex, needed sex.

I ask her why she owns a vibrator and uses it. (VERY occasionally. Trust me, I don't know exactly how often it's used on her own, but it IS rare). She says it's out of boredom. Something to do. And rare. Like a few times a year, rare. Like scratching an itch.

My issue has always been that she knows how important sexual intimacy is to me, and beyond that, what it means to ME that *I* feel wanted. I don't care how good the sex is, or ends up being, if it's ALWAYS started out because "it's been too long, I'd better give him something" it's NOT intimate at all. It's about getting laid. 

There is no desire for me. For her part, she has said (and I believe her) that she has never had desire for ANYONE. It's nothing to do with me.

She has had more partners than I have. I have discussed that issue with her somewhat openly (it doesn't bother me, only that if she is so not into sex, then why so many partners?) To her, sex was about just doing what one does in a relationship. And her early 20's, it was about feeling wanted and a boost to her ego via ONS and casual sex. I understand that, and I believe her that it was never about the actual sex. It was also exclusively her being hit on, and never the other way around. Again, I believe her.

There is a serious mental block here, and she denies it. She KNOWS she does not feel the same way about sex as her peers do, and she KNOWS it is not "normal", yet she categorically refuses to go beyond her comfort zone and initiate, touch, or kiss me until we're already in the act.

SO what is going on in her mind? How can you LD folks know that it's a huge issue, even if your partner is not particularly HD, and not do anything about it?

To me, especially when someone actually enjoys sex (as my wife does) it is not at all difficult to "go outside your comfort zone", especially with someone you love and trust?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

You stated she has never felt horny, never feels the urge to have sex, needed sex etc. and she has not felt desire for you or anyone. So since this is something you have pretty much always known, I highly doubt it will change. Hard to say what might be going on with her. Do you know if something traumatic happened to her in the past, that has caused her to not feel desire for people?

I would imagine if people feel no desire, then yes, it would be harder for them to initiate. Does she ever hug you or kiss you, hold your hand etc? Does she show any kind of affection thats not sexual? Or is she just closed off period?


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Yeah, I guess that would fit my wife pretty well also except that she would not use a vibrator. 

I gave up trying to figure out why someone would not enjoy doing something that feels so good, costs nothing and seems to have health benefits. 

My wife and I get around this by having routine sex once a week. The whole waiting around trying to figure out when she was interested thing did not work for me. 

But the reason (either biological or social) does not make much difference because the results are the same.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Well for starters, she should go to the doctor and have her hormone levels checked, especially testosterone. Women need that too!

Maybe start watching some erotic movies together... doesn't have to be outright porn if she's not comfortable with that, but some movies with some really steamy, sexy bedroom scenes and show her exactly what it is you desire -- the connection between the two individuals. Show her some scenes where the woman is really coming on to the guy... maybe she truly isn't comfortable initiating.

Sounds like she doesn't equate sex with love -- her numerous one night stands seems like she really just sees it as a physical act rather than an intimate way to express love.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

A lot of women equate their emotional feelings with physical feelings. So for some, if the emotional feeling isn't there, then its not likely for physical feelings to be there either. Bottom line, if shes emotionally empty she is probably physically empty as well, (no desire)

My suggestion(s), get her to see her doc have her hormone levels checked. Perhaps suggest to her MC as well.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Well I'll take a stab at this one. For women intimacy starts with the mental...unlike with men where it starts with the physical. Why a woman and man can go on a date and spend the whole evening together talking and then go home to cuddle on the couch and if you ask them if they had an intimate evening he will say not till we got home and she will say at the restaurant. Understanding this...if you have a wife who is more conservative and she doesn't naturally think about sex during the day she is not going to be primed to want sex when you get home because she needs that intimacy piece to get her engines going...ie the LD wife. Most women that i know who are considered HD fall into three categories...the ones that read erotic books to get in the mood, the ones with frisky hubbies that are teasing them all day getting them thinking about sex all the time and the ones that just naturally think about sex on their own. Women are like a simmering pot...you have to get the pot warmed up if you want to cook.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't get it either.

I hate going to the gym. Hate it. Don't like it when I'm there. Afterwards there is only the satisfaction that I am in control of myself enough to do this thing I get no pleasure from. It's only because I know its important for my health and longevity that I am able to do it.

Those are my feelings - and yet I'm still able to do it 3-5x/week.

It ain't sex and it damn well isn't multiple orgasms.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The more we try to make there be "something wrong" with someone who is truly LD by nature, the less understanding or hope of any change there will be.


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

alexm said:


> To me, especially when someone actually enjoys sex (as my wife does) it is not at all difficult to "go outside your comfort zone", especially with someone you love and trust?


Ok, ND/LD woman who enjoys sex too here. Seriously, it feels great. SO can get me off multiple times a session as well.
_But feeling great doesn't make it my thing. _ I don't NEED orgasms or freaky sex to be happy, and most of the time I don't even think about it (probably why I hang out in SIM so much... _makes_ me think about it, lol). If it stopped tomorrow, it'd be no big deal. Preferable, actually... if I'm being honest here. 

I don't equate sex with love. I just don't. Out of all the ways humans have come up with to express love and affection, you want me to get naked and be stabbed in the crotch by your penis? :scratchhead: Don't really get it. 
BUT. With that said, going there with him is truly the biggest act of love I can muster. I don't think he even understands that a lot of the time, to be honest. 

I DO get is that it's important to _him_, so I do go out of my way to be sexually intimate with him more often than most LD wives. But I'm not looking for a magic cure to make me suddenly have a drive to match his; I don't want to be like SO. Having even an "average" drive sounds awful to me. That's not who I am, and that's ok. Who gets to decide what is "normal" and what is not? 

The most important thing to focus on in our relationship is NOT that I'm LD and he's HD. The important thing is that we communicate *both* of our needs, and both of us make strides to meet those needs. For SO, it's sex. For me, it's non-sexual cuddling and little gifts occasionally and nice dinners out. When MY needs are met, I will work harder to meet HIS needs. When they aren't, then... pfffft. You've got a hand, buddy. 

OP, what are your wife's needs? Are _you_ meeting _them_? Or do you not even know what they are?




Faithful Wife said:


> The more we try to make there be "something wrong" with someone who is truly LD by nature, the less understanding or hope of any change there will be.


I absolutely cannot agree with this more!!!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Although I sense a -little- bit of hostility there, I thank you for this reply.

Actually, everyone else who responded - thanks.

Let me get this out of the way - this is not (to me) about "what's wrong" with her. It's about trying to understand the mindset. Your response hit the tip of the iceberg, and it's a relief to know there's someone out there pretty much exactly like my wife 

Seriously, it's not about me trying to fix this. I know there's nothing I can do, other than be the man she wants me to be (as suggested by you and others). And I do. I am the communicator in the relationship, not her. But I CAN get her to talk. And like sex, it's me who initiates it.

I take the temperature of the relationship every now and again, and not in a whiny, "am I good enough for you?" way. Apparently, I AM meeting her needs. She also knows that if she ever has an issue, to let me know, and we can work it out.

A little about me/us - I am self-employed, work from home. She has an 8-12 hour work day, with varying hours. Right now, she's 
on a 12 hour night shift.

She came with 2 kids. (who are pretty awesome, btw). Given my schedule vs. hers, I bring the kids to school, and pick them up. I make their lunches. Dinner is on the table for the 4 of us when she gets home (or the 3 of us when she's working).

During the day, I find time to do the bulk of the household chores, such as laundry and dishes. Working from home has it's advantages.

So, to sum up, this is not the type of relationship in which we both work stupid hours, yet the husband comes home, cracks open a beer and asks what's for dinner.

I am thoughtful and attentive, yet I maintain my manliness at the same time. I am also a good step parent (or so I am told!)

So I don't know what else I can do to "get her in the mood", so to say. That doesn't work, and it doesn't matter.

A couple of you mentioned seeing a Dr. about hormone levels. I tend to agree, and I believe she would be very open about it. She KNOWS it's an issue - however, this is something she admitted on her own, not because I planted that seed. She WANTS to make me happy, and she WANTS to be able to feel stuff like that, and she doesn't understand why she can't. If anything, SHE wants the "cure", and that is of her own volition.

I am merely trying to understand, as best as one can, how this mindset works.

And no, there's never been any abuse, or sexual interference, etc.

Oh, and it's important to mention that, regarding her past in terms of the odd ONS or casual sex, she says it was never about the physicality of it, never about sex. It was about feeling wanted. She feels no guilt about it, either.

But again, she ENJOYS sex, a lot. When it happens... lol. The last time, without being too graphic, she used the words "I want you to f*** my clit". (she squirts when I do this. SQUIRTS!) These are not the words of a prude, not someone who is not IN the moment and not enjoying herself.

I mean... she squirts! Has multiple O's! O's from anal! Swallows! The whole 9 yards. It does not compute 


EntirelyDifferent said:


> Ok, ND/LD woman who enjoys sex too here. Seriously, it feels great. SO can get me off multiple times a session as well.
> _But feeling great doesn't make it my thing. _ I don't NEED orgasms or freaky sex to be happy, and most of the time I don't even think about it (probably why I hang out in SIM so much... _makes_ me think about it, lol). If it stopped tomorrow, it'd be no big deal. Preferable, actually... if I'm being honest here.
> 
> I don't equate sex with love. I just don't. Out of all the ways humans have come up with to express love and affection, you want me to get naked and be stabbed in the crotch by your penis? :scratchhead: Don't really get it.
> ...


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

alexm said:


> But again, she ENJOYS sex, a lot. When it happens... lol. The last time, without being too graphic, she used the words "I want you to f*** my clit". (she squirts when I do this. SQUIRTS!) These are not the words of a prude, not someone who is not IN the moment and not enjoying herself.
> 
> I mean... she squirts! Has multiple O's! O's from anal! Swallows! The whole 9 yards. It does not compute


I apologize for any hostility... seems like there's been more threads nearly attacking the LD lately, and I've let it get to me. So sorry about that. 

Here's the thing... I GET that it doesn't compute, because even as an LD person, living it, I don't totally get why it is that I enjoy it (I'm capable of what you described above), yet do not crave it at _all_. It's weird, and I have no real explanation except it's just how I'm wired. It's not a medical thing, or an abuse thing. Just how I am. 

From my perspective... there may not be anything YOU can do to get her in the mood. There are exceptions, but my SO usually can't do that - I have to make that effort myself. It's taken about two years of trial and error, but I've found things that do work, it just takes me some time.
So for us, if he initiates, I'll usually ask him to give me some time to 'get ready for him'. 
Or,since I know his schedule, I'll do that stuff before he comes home from work/school so _I_ can initiate. 
But I never really have that "OMG I just want your body" thing all on my own. I really have to work at it. 

But this is all just one perspective... She may be completely different.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The question you, OP, should be asking is how so many HD people end up marrying LD people. Is it bait and switch? Would the LD person actually be HD with someone else? Did they not know that being LD would have an impact on their marriage? 

The problem is human sexuality is complicated. Especially for LD people. The answer is there isn't an answer. Only a situation with unhappy HD people wondering what to do about a seemingly happy LD spouse.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think EntirelyDifferent has an excellent post. I believe many LD people think that way. And it's NORMAL FOR THEM. They don't see life any other way. The problem is that it doesn't work well if they have married a HD person. And that's usually the case. So it's a compromise usually and it's a tough thing to compromise on because the HD person wants the LD person to think the way they do. And the LD person isn't likely to. Are either of them ever really happy with that situation? Few on TAM are.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I've known several women AND MEN who are extremely orgasmic and basically "good" at sex, yet who never miss it, crave it or think about it in between sex sessions.

Being LD doesn't always have to do with functioning, anxiety, or even childhood trauma. For some people, this is totally normal.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"The question you, OP, should be asking is how so many HD people end up marrying LD people." 

I think a better question is, "What the hell is a sexless zombie doing in a marriage?" Not everyone loves to ride horses, but those who hate riding horses have no business taking a job as a jockey. If one doesn't like sex, that's cool. That's their right. It isn't their right to con a normally-functioning, complete person and drag them down into their sexless lair for all eternity. Sex is an expected part of marriage. If they can't uphold the terms of their agreement, they need to get help or get out. If they were normally-functioning sexual beings throughout the marriage but contracted some ailment or got hit by a truck, I'll give them a pass. Those who knew they were LD but married anyway are frauds.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Openminded said:


> The question you, OP, should be asking is how so many HD people end up marrying LD people. Is it bait and switch? Would the LD person actually be HD with someone else? Did they not know that being LD would have an impact on their marriage?
> 
> The problem is human sexuality is complicated. Especially for LD people. The answer is there isn't an answer. Only a situation with unhappy HD people wondering what to do about a seemingly happy LD spouse.


Well, I don't feel like I was bait and switched at all. I can understand how people do, though. I mean, if sex is regular, and good during courtship, then it essentially ends after marriage - yeah, for sure.

But some people also need to remember that the first 6-ish months of any relationship is the period when you can't keep your hands off of each other. Generally speaking, you fall into a rhythm after that period, and many things (like sex) taper off a bit (or a lot). That is not bait and switch, either. It's just normal human behavior.

In my case, sex WAS easier (?) and more often during courtship, though in retrospect, it was essentially the same as it is now - just a little more frequent. I chalk that up to the two of us in the midst of falling in love. She claims the desire has never changed or wavered, it's just natural that it's more frequent early on.

I really hold no ill will towards her. I mean at the end of the day, we are having sex, and GOOD sex. I can deal with the frequency (mostly because it IS good).

I would very likely feel completely different if it was at the same frequency, but NOT good.

I think EntirelyDifferent and my wife have it right, though, as far as LD relationships go. If you recognize you are LD, and generally have no desire, yet sex can still be good, then do it. And make a conscious effort to do it, even if it's 2, 3, 4 times a month.

It's when the LD partner makes NO effort that it becomes a problem, and THAT is what I really don't get about people. The other partner takes that as a "I don't give a rat's ___ about you and your needs" - which is, essentially, exactly what that is.

For the record, I am not HD. I'm not entirely sure of what the line is between HD and "normal" drive, but I would think that I fall into normal. I COULD do it every day, but I don't need to. 2, 3, 4 times a month is fine (again, largely because it's good) but not ideal, and the rest of the time, I have other methods. I would prefer if it was 2 or 3 times a week, but only if the desire and initiation was 50/50. I have no interest in having sex 3 times a week if it's 100% me doing the initiating. Sex, to me, is not about simply getting off, it's 95% about intimacy and feeling wanted, and making my partner feel wanted and desired. If it's one-sided to begin with, I have zero desire to have sex every day.

So as things stand right now, my wife and I have reached a middle ground, which is very important. I can't expect her to be like me, and she can't expect me to be like her, so we have communicated enough that we compromise. This is what people most often don't do. One expects the other to change to THEIR way of thinking, and that's not fair. If my wife expected me to "deal with it", as much as I love her, I'd be gone. And I'm sure the opposite would be true.

I am thankful that she understands me, and I understand her (even though we truly don't "understand" each other, if that makes sense).


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Personally I do not think that it is all that unusual for two people to come to some sort of compromise. There seems to be enough variability in both sexes that mismatches are extremely common.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm good for sex a couple of times a week, which many men would consider LD. My hb is older and happy with that (we've talked). If he wanted more I'd do my best to be involved but I wouldn't enjoy any of it as much because I need time to recharge. This is something a lot of higher drive people don't get; they're so focused on the fact that they want more that they don't consider that might lead to less enjoyment for their partner. That's why communication and compromise is so important here. I will add that for those couple of times per week I will initiate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> The more we try to make there be "something wrong" with someone who is truly LD by nature, the less understanding or hope of any change there will be.



Nothing wrong by being LD but everything wrong by stonewalling their partner, lying about it early in the relationship to get them hooked, and then offering enough duty sex to avoid being dumped.

One should reveal their cards early on, not wait till well after marriage and a baby or two to 'fess up.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Perhaps we need a mutually agreeable definition of LD. Twice a week in my world would seem like nympho heaven. I'm talking about going months, maybe years without.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Perhaps we need a mutually agreeable definition of LD. Twice a week in my world would seem like nympho heaven. I'm talking about going months, maybe years without.


Well, we can start with the clinical definition of a sexless marriage, from Wikipedia:



> A sexless marriage is a marriage in which little or no sexual activity occurs between two spouses. The US National Health and Social Life Survey in 1994 (Laumann et al. 1994) found that 2 percent of the married respondents reported no sexual intimacy in the past year. *The definition of a nonsexual marriage is often broadened to include those where sexual intimacy occurs less than ten times per year*, in which case 20 percent of the couples in the National Health and Social Life Survey would be in the category. Newsweek magazine estimates that 15 to 20 percent of couples are in a sexless relationship.


Sexless marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Fewer than 10 times per year? Yeah, that's either LD or deceased.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

For those married to LD "partners" (per the definition above), do you also find your LD "partner" is also a non-performer/non-participant outside the bedroom? I have this theory that those who refuse to participate in the sex aspect of marriage generally withhold in most other areas as well.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> For those married to LD "partners" (per the definition above), do you also find your LD "partner" is also a non-performer/non-participant outside the bedroom? I have this theory that those who refuse to participate in the sex aspect of marriage generally withhold in most other areas as well.


I don't agree with your theory. My ex was "normal" in all areas other than sex and affection. She was motivated, conscientious, and even creative about most things.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> I don't agree with your theory. My ex was "normal" in all areas other than sex and affection. She was motivated, conscientious, and even creative about most things.


Ok, there's one. Not all birds have the capability of flight, but that's not the norm. We'll see if others weigh in.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Ok, there's one. Not all birds have the capability of flight, but that's not the norm. We'll see if others weigh in.


Mean, mode, or median? Define your terms, sir.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

unbelievable said:


> Ok, there's one. Not all birds have the capability of flight, but that's not the norm. We'll see if others weigh in.


Count mine, so we now have two 

I have a super-wife (and the kids have a super-mom), including in the bedroom. It's just getting TO the bedroom that's the issue... 

This is why I don't complain TOO much. She's pretty freakin' awesome in pretty much every other regard. I'm just doing my damndest to figure out this mindset.


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