# Repeat offender?



## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

I know every relationship and person is an individual, but do you think it's possible to have an online EA for a year, get caught, and then never repeat it? D-day was March and so far I see no evidence of continued communication, but I can't shake the feeling that I am just wasting my time and should just divorce. H has been completely different, extremely affectionate, and has told me that it was a mistake, says he only wants me forever, and has apologized multiple times, but still doesn't like to talk about the details. I know it's possible, but the phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater" keeps playing over and over in my head.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Of course it's possible. My husband did it. His went PA finally but he's been 'clean' for over 3 years 

However he DOES need to talk about the details. There are some other very important things he MUST also do in order to put your mind truly at ease, and have a successful R. Read the Newbie link in my signature.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Of course it's possible. My husband did it. His went PA finally but he's been 'clean' for over 3 years
> 
> However he DOES need to talk about the details. There are some other very important things he MUST also do in order to put your mind truly at ease, and have a successful R. Read the Newbie link in my signature.


Thank you for the bit of positivity. It's been such a roller coaster ride that sometimes I think I should just jump off. We had our 20 year anniversary just after D-day and separated for 2 weeks. The good days do outweigh the bad, but the bad ones are just so difficult. I don't know if I'll be able to trust him again. 

Congratulations on your last 3 years!


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

They are one wrong conversation or situation away from reverting back to their old ways.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

We are two years post D-Day (EA). No desire to go there again.

Hub was worried last night about me closing a window on my iPad last night when he walked by. I instantly opened it, brought up the window again and handed it to him. No secrets, no shame.

Is he being really transparent about his activities? At some point, it will get easier. 

If we were all forever judged by our pasts, there would be no incentive to change. I know that I'm fortunate for another opportunity, I'm not going to waste that.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Yes it's possible and it happens but you should trust your intuition. If he's doing everything he's supposed to do then you shouldn't have that nagging feeling. First of all he needs to be available to talk about whatever level of detail you want to any time. If he answers your questions honestly then you won't be left wondering what, when, why, how. And you won't need to ask the questions again and again. Trickle truth is very counter productive. It's a sign he doesn't want to own up completely to what he did.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

checkingout said:


> I know every relationship and person is an individual, but do you think it's possible to have an online EA for a year, get caught, and then never repeat it? D-day was March and so far I see no evidence of continued communication, but I can't shake the feeling that I am just wasting my time and should just divorce. H has been completely different, extremely affectionate, and has told me that it was a mistake, says he only wants me forever, and has apologized multiple times, but still *doesn't like to talk about the details*. I know it's possible, but the phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater" keeps playing over and over in my head.


None of the cheaters like to talk about the details. Men generally are not big on verbal sharing, and I think it's human nature to want to avoid talking about how badly you behaved.

He should be doing everything he can to allow you to check up on him. That said, with technology the way it is, there is no way to prevent him from communicating with her and no way to catch it if he is savvy enough.

It's hard for most people to put up a good act for any extended period, so I would take a consistent positive change in his behavior as a good sign.

Whether a person cheats again is based on that person's character. People make bad choices; sometimes they learn from them and sometimes they don't.

There is a reason that he thought it was OK to cheat, something he told himself to justify it. The root cause. Something inside him. That needs to be fixed. It will help you to feel better about choosing to stay if you know what it is and what changed now that it won't happen again.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> We are two years post D-Day (EA). No desire to go there again.
> 
> Hub was worried last night about me closing a window on my iPad last night when he walked by. I instantly opened it, brought up the window again and handed it to him. No secrets, no shame.
> 
> ...


He is being very transparent about his activities. He leaves his phone out at all times now, doesn't even take it in the shower to play music anymore, and I do check it frequently. He has it on my iTunes account so I can see any communication apps he downloads and voluntary installed "find my iPhone" so that I could see his location at any time. We have always spent the weekends together and he never has liked to go out at night, which is probably why this whole thing shocked me so much. 

We have been together 22 years and in the early years he was physically abusive. I always forgave him for that and he hasn't touched me in at least 15 years, but finding the EA hurt so much more than that physical pain.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> None of the cheaters like to talk about the details. Men generally are not big on verbal sharing, and I think it's human nature to want to avoid talking about how badly you behaved.
> 
> He should be doing everything he can to allow you to check up on him. That said, with technology the way it is, there is no way to prevent him from communicating with her and no way to catch it if he is savvy enough.
> 
> ...


Thank you. His behavior has changed quite a bit and he has been acting happier than he has in years. He says it's because he feels loved and better about us. We were going through a tough time as our son had just joined the military and he also stated that he thought I was chatting with people online at the time. I'm not making excuses, just wondering if that contributed. 

The thing I can't get over is how you can tell someone you met playing Dice with Buddies that you loved them is beyond me. I often wonder if he misses her, but his behavior doesn't suggest he does. I've been with him 22 years and he's never been really expressive with his feelings with me or any of his family, including his children and dying father, so that's what is so difficult about him saying such loving words to her.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

It's important that he identify WHAT it was that he was seeking or getting from this relationship. Was it attention, affection, sexual gratification? 

Once he knows what that is and you can both ensure it's included in YOUR relationship, it's a big step in repairing the bond.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> It's important that he identify WHAT it was that he was seeking or getting from this relationship. Was it attention, affection, sexual gratification?
> 
> Once he knows what that is and you can both ensure it's included in YOUR relationship, it's a big step in repairing the bond.


I've been struggling with that too. We always spent every evening on the couch with each other and rarely missed a day having sex, often multiple times a day. He still says he doesn't know why he did it other than that it was just a game that he let go too far and that he thought I was doing it too.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

That's a key factor that he needs to really figure out. Sometimes it's plain old self sabotage, but there is a reason. That's part of his job to find it.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> That's a key factor that he needs to really figure out. Sometimes it's plain old self sabotage, but there is a reason. That's part of his job to find it.


I think this is key to any successful R. The WS needs to understand what inside themselves lead to the breakdown in character that allowed them to cheat. 

If they are still blaming the BS or the bad marriage or uncle tony's dog, they are looking in the wrong spot and won't fix themselves. Vigilance may keep them on the straight and narrow for a time, but if the flaw is still there, it creeps back in eventually.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Acoa said:


> I think this is key to any successful R. The WS needs to understand what inside themselves lead to the breakdown in character that allowed them to cheat.
> 
> If they are still blaming the BS or the bad marriage or uncle tony's dog, they are looking in the wrong spot and won't fix themselves. Vigilance may keep them on the straight and narrow for a time, but if the flaw is still there, it creeps back in eventually.


I guess I should be comforted by the fact that he hasn't ever blamed anyone else for what he did, although he did try to deny it at first. What I struggle with more is the emotional connection. He says he didn't feel anything for her and his actions don't show that he did. He doesn't act like he has a broken heart or anything, but the words he said are haunting me.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

checkingout said:


> I guess I should be comforted by the fact that he hasn't ever blamed anyone else for what he did, although he did try to deny it at first. What I struggle with more is the emotional connection. He says he didn't feel anything for her and his actions don't show that he did. He doesn't act like he has a broken heart or anything, but the words he said are haunting me.


Has he sought out counseling? An emotionally healthy person in a good relationship doesn't do something so destructive. 

If he's looking for a way to repair this, namin the reason (even if its hurtful) is needed. It was not easy for me to face this and then say it.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Has he sought out counseling? An emotionally healthy person in a good relationship doesn't do something so destructive.
> 
> If he's looking for a way to repair this, namin the reason (even if its hurtful) is needed. It was not easy for me to face this and then say it.


He is not in counseling yet. We have discussed it and although he was against it at first, stating that he wouldn't feel comfortable talking to a complete stranger (which I found a little odd considering he sexted a complete stranger :scratchhead, he is open to it now. We are looking for a counselor at the time, but we live in a very rural area which makes it difficult.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm glad he's open to it. Let him know how important it is for your both. Have you both read 'Not Just Friends'?


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I'm glad he's open to it. Let him know how important it is for your both. Have you both read 'Not Just Friends'?


I have just started that one. I have read His Needs, Her Needs, The 7 Principles of Making Marriage Work, and The 5 Love Languages. He is dyslexic, so I'm looking for them in audio format since reading a lot is difficult for him.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

H and I had a great weekend. Yesterday he actually cried (which I've only witnessed a handful of times in 22 years) and thanked me for "not throwing him away". He really has been trying to do everything he can to prove he loves me, but I think my problem is I'm afraid that if I let my guard down I'll get hurt again. He had been trying before, but this weekend I saw extreme remorse. Now I just hope I can get over the questioning everything in my head. I'm starting to believe I think about her more than he does.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I'm in a similar situation. More than are year out from Dday, FWW is doing the right stuff. She was light on the remorse for a while, I think much of that had to do with not wanting to be 'wrong'. But that's gotten better recently as we get into more emotional stuff in MC and both of our IC. 

Push for therapy. And get a couple. One for him and a separate one for the marriage. Getting a third for yourself isn't a bad thing either. It's helped me a lot in dealing with my wife's affair. 

Some folks have had bad therapy experiences, so they are turned off by it. But I think the 3rd party is key to helping a couple learn how to communicate properly. When there is dysfunction in a relationship, much of it has to do with the lack of honest communication and lack of empathy for each others views. A good therapist can help keep communication productive and hopefully lead to some sustainable progress. Or, in those cases where it's just not a good situation, they can help identify that and at least you know where you stand.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I do believe that “once a betrayer, always a betrayer”, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the betrayer will do so again like they did before. 

Betraying is an addiction. There are alcoholics who quit drinking, but the thirst remains. There are gamblers who quit gambling, but the desire for risk remains. Betrayers may stop the actual betraying, but the desire to betray remains. 

That said, how does one deal with the fact betrayers still have the addiction, but it may never fully manifest itself aside from in their mind and hearts?

I suppose that, in and of itself, is a victory of sorts. But is it enough to live with? For some it is and for some it isn’t. Some people want a spouse/SO who is wholly devoted and others are content so long as the desire does not become reality.

It’s an interesting thought- how devoted does want their mate to be?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Yes, it is possible. Especially if he fell into an EA without understanding what he was doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

jules1990 said:


> Once a cheater, always a cheater.
> 
> They are one wrong conversation or situation away from reverting back to their old ways.


This is a handy catch phrase betrayed people like to repeat. Like the one "a leopard can't change it's spots."

I disagree. in fact, it's one of those "wives tales" that self perpetuates, without any real basis for it. 

If a person is a serial cheater, with whom it's a lifestyle, then no matter who they are with they won't change that part of their life. However, if you are a person in love, a mature person, one who is truly remorseful and who sees the pain you've inflicted in your loved one(s), that's incredibly strong motivation to NEVER pick that route in life again. 

I've been on both ends of it in my life. So has my W. We both know that cheating will never rear its ugly head in our lives again. 

It is hard to get over the pain. It's a daily struggle, but it gets better over time. Both partners have to work on it for it to be successful.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I don't put much stock in the phrase, "Once a cheater always a cheater" because I believe that people can change. However, if someone has always cheated or continues to do so up till the day they die, then they have not changed. Then one might could say, "Once a cheater always a cheater." JMO though.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I do believe that “once a betrayer, always a betrayer”, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the betrayer will do so again like they did before.
> 
> Betraying is an addiction. There are alcoholics who quit drinking, but the thirst remains. There are gamblers who quit gambling, but the desire for risk remains. Betrayers may stop the actual betraying, but the desire to betray remains.
> 
> ...


How does one become a betrayer after 22 years? That's the struggle I'm going through. I have no doubt he was faithful for those first 21 years and in hindsight I see that his behavior did change in the last year he was involved in the EA. I don't see any of that behavior now, but the doubts and insecurities still remain. He has been more expressive of his feelings in the last few weeks than ever before, and although that should make me feel very loved, I sometimes feel empty inside and then I feel guilty for that.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

That's the question he still needs to answer for you. Why and how. Push him on this.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

In my personal experiences so far, 'once a cheater always a cheater' has been proved true over and over again.

A WS might not slip for a period of time. But the traits will lie dormant waiting for circumstances to present themselves. Once the 'stars align themselves', they will do it again, with greater intensity, almost as if to make for the lost opportunities. 

Wouldn't want to discourage anyone going for R, but keep your guards up, not your hopes.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

checkingout said:


> I know every relationship and person is an individual, but do you think it's possible to have an online EA for a year, get caught, and then never repeat it? D-day was March and so far I see no evidence of continued communication, but I can't shake the feeling that I am just wasting my time and should just divorce. H has been completely different, extremely affectionate, and has told me that it was a mistake, says he only wants me forever, and has apologized multiple times, but still doesn't like to talk about the details. I know it's possible, but the phrase "*once a cheater, always a cheater*" keeps playing over and over in my head.


This is true. Just think about it...

Once and ex-con, always an ex-con. That doesn't mean that the ex-con would ever commit another crime, or not.

Once a cheater, always a cheater. That doesn't mean that the cheater would ever cheat again, or not.

Once the act has been committed, that line has been crossed, the title stands and stays(IMHO).

Will your WS stay faithful from now on?... That's the million dollar question that many here would love to know, up front, before they invest anymore in a relationship that's not going to end up making it.

That's your husband's responsibility to answer that. It's your responsibility to make sure that he knows what the consequences are if he should be unfaithful EVER again.

Consequences that you MUST follow through with if it does happen again. If you tell him that you will divorce him and you don't follow through, the ending will be much worse.

Btw, many here think that actually filing for a divorce is the best deterrent against infidelity happening again in the future. You get to see the WS's true colors before you decide to put the D on hold and go for R.

After all, no one values their life more than someone that's just almost lost theirs.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> This is true. Just think about it...
> 
> Once and ex-con, always an ex-con. That doesn't mean that the ex-con would ever commit another crime, or not.
> 
> ...


Well done GP, you put it much better than I did, and this is how I meant it to come across, as my last sentence read, it is a situation or conversation that goes too far that sees them actively cheating again.

Once the boundary has been crossed, to me me it seems that the marriage and or relationship is over and it could be far easier to start a fresh with someone new in time, reconciliations seem to come about far too quickly and too early for any damage to heal, and for my own thoughts I think it almost futile, your SO did not respect/love you enough to stay faithful and committed and your relationship was over but neither of you bailed and one of you cheated, simple really, reconciliation is easy for the two of you and the cheater then often never fully comprehends their actions as they are not thrown out on the street to learn lifes hard knock lessons, like, "Cheat on me and your are in the gutter with your clothes in trash bags", if cheaters got this the first time they got caught how many would do it again?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

checkingout said:


> do you think it's possible to have an online EA for a year, get caught, and then never repeat it?


Yes, it is possible.

The bigger question is: what do you want to do?


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Yes, it is possible.
> 
> The bigger question is: what do you want to do?


This is the question I ask myself a thousand times a day.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Btw, many here think that actually filing for a divorce is the best deterrent against infidelity happening again in the future. You get to see the WS's true colors before you decide to put the D on hold and go for R.
> 
> After all, no one values their life more than someone that's just almost lost theirs.


I often think I should have filed, maybe still should, but after 3-1/2 months of R and a lot of improvement in our relationship, I feel it would be counter productive at this point. 

I know if I divorced, I have the same chances of it happening again in a future relationship that I don't have 22 years invested in. I guess what I'm looking for is a magic ball so that I can see the future.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

While we were separated for a few weeks, I actually had an appointment with an attorney. Do you think it would be of any benefit to let him know that I was intending to file?


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Is it normal that sometimes I look at him and have a hard time believing he actually did it,even though I have plenty of proof? He told me today that I was an amazing woman and he was so lucky I took him back, which made me feel guilty because I'm still not sure I can forgive him. He's promised me nothing will ever come between us again, but I'm just taking it day by day at this point.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

The way things are today---it is just so easy to be in contact with other people----who knows who is really on the other end of the computer/phone/what have you, and who knows what agenda that person has

What boundaries have you put in place, and what type of consequences does he have, if he violates those boundaries

does he know that this is his last chance---or is it???---have you made him sign a Post--Nup----he may not appreciate any of these things---but they are tools and weapons, FOR YOUR PROTECTION---they need to be in place

He needs to tell you everything you wanna know, and answer each and every question you have for him---this is to help your sub--conscious control your imagination

You need to do these things, if he doesn't like it---that's to bad---he cheated---he needs to do what YOU WANT DONE, to make it right, and keep the family going.----DO NOT LET HIM SLIDE----also if he reverts back to any physical abuse---cuz of what you might demand/ask for---do not hesitate to call the police on him

This may seem harsh---but it is for your protection, and it is to do what is needed to try and make sure he does not stray again


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

checkingout said:


> Is it normal that sometimes I look at him and have a hard time believing he actually did it,even though I have plenty of proof? He told me today that I was an amazing woman and he was so lucky I took him back, which made me feel guilty because I'm still not sure I can forgive him. He's promised me nothing but I'm just taking it day by day at this point.


Yes that is normal. Unfortunately your in two completely different places at this time. Your still realing from what he has done and trying to accept that after all these years someone you loved and adored could betray you like this and how do you heal from it.....he on the other hand sounds like is going through remorse and gratitude that he has such a good wife who has not thrown him out on his ear. This is one time in your marriage where you really have to go through the healing process separately....he can't really understand your point of view unless he has walked in your shoes....same for you. You need to set down your requirements for reconcilliation and have all your questions answered. You will also probably go through the stages of grief that is not uncommon after an affair for a BS....ie...sorrow/depression,..anger/rage,....acceptance/compromise. You may cycle through those stages multiple times over the next months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

jules1990 said:


> Once a cheater, always a cheater.
> 
> They are one wrong conversation or situation away from reverting back to their old ways.


Excellent point and bugs the tripe out of me


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> What boundaries have you put in place, and what type of consequences does he have, if he violates those boundaries
> 
> does he know that this is his last chance---or is it???---have you made him sign a Post--Nup----he may not appreciate any of these things---but they are tools and weapons, FOR YOUR PROTECTION---they need to be in place
> 
> ...


He actually decided the boundaries the minute he came back home. He walked in and put his phone on the table in the open, and it has been that way ever since. I go through it regularly and haven't found anything yet. We also installed a GPS locator on it and although I know they didn't meet in person, that does make me feel a little better. I also regularly look on the iTunes account to make sure he isn't downloading any messenger apps. He has never liked to go anywhere without me, comes right home after work, and never goes out at night. I'm not sure what other boundaries I can add. He doesn't use a computer at home and has limited access at work. He does use my iPad occasionally, but I doubt he would be brave enough to use that to contact her. 

I have told him repeatedly this is his last chance and just the other day told him I was still considering giving up. That is when he started really expressing how lucky he felt.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Excellent point and bugs the tripe out of me


Me too!!


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

I have been in this boat for a while now and it aint an easy sailing, every day I think to myself, bail, she did this right in front of you, making an effort for someone else when she could have been making an effort with you.

I am actually leaning towards the bailing out and being on my own these last few days as I am getting sick of the sh!t in my head telling me I am second best to someone else and next time it could see me being alone anyway with just a note on the draining board.

Sorry but just from my own personal point of view.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

wranglerman said:


> I have been in this boat for a while now and it aint an easy sailing, every day I think to myself, bail, she did this right in front of you, making an effort for someone else when she could have been making an effort with you.
> 
> I am actually leaning towards the bailing out and being on my own these last few days as I am getting sick of the sh!t in my head telling me I am second best to someone else and next time it could see me being alone anyway with just a note on the draining board.
> 
> Sorry but just from my own personal point of view.


How long were you married? If it weren't for my children, I don't know if I'd still be here. We have a 9-year-old daughter still at home and a grown son who is going through a tough time as well. 

I have the same feelings. Even when he is being affectionate and trying to show me he loves me, I have that voice in my head telling me he's just faking it and he really wants her. It sucks!!!!


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

I messaged the OW a few weeks ago and at first pretended to be my husband. She didn't act like they had been talking recently. I then came clean who I was and she lied through her teeth, stating all they did was chat on a game and it was over a year ago, which I know for a fact is bullshyt. She also admitted to looking at my Facebook for pictures of me in May, which for some reason really pissed me off. She obviously thinks this is a competition.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Tough situation..I would think the same thing as you..what are they really thinking...

I know if things are tense between us I often think is he thinking about his nice light flirty interacitons with his long distance EA..but less and less do I care about that I am finding...we are 15 months past dd#2.

I think what you have to do is still check things out to give you peace of mind.

It is tough thinking the things that they said..I remember seeing stuff such as how much they missed each other as well as the I love you's, etc. It is hard to erase that from your brain.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I used to slap my old lady around and I stop telling her I was sorry and just stopped hitting her!
Action speak louder then words and needs must be met, so in short its all about actions not what your old man is telling you.

Transparentcy is evrything, my oldlady screwed around and we worked it out...hell we worked alot of sh1t out over the last 23 years.

Once a wife beater *not* always a wife beater!!!

Girl stand your ground and state your boundries and your needs, if your old man wants this he will phucking go thru your hell fire to keep it.

From were I'm sitting he has no room to nigotiate a damn thing But kiss your @ss and rebuild the trust.

Its not what you should be doing to save this, but what *he* should be doing to stay!

Shift the power girl and make him do the heavy lifting!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

checkingout said:


> I know it's possible, but the phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater" keeps playing over and over in my head.


I'm about 10 months out and today was a bad day. It gets easier, but you'll have days when you wonder.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

checkingout said:


> How does one become a betrayer after 22 years? That's the struggle I'm going through. I have no doubt he was faithful for those first 21 years and in hindsight I see that his behavior did change in the last year he was involved in the EA. I don't see any of that behavior now, but the doubts and insecurities still remain. He has been more expressive of his feelings in the last few weeks than ever before, and although that should make me feel very loved, I sometimes feel empty inside and then I feel guilty for that.


He most likely needed to feel the high of "the hunt". Not an excuse but I think most people like to feel if they wanted to they could pick up an attractive man or woman if they were not with their SO. Possibly midlife type thoughts made him feel the need to feed his ego and he took a wrong turn. Just a mans perspective.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> He most likely needed to feel the high of "the hunt". Not an excuse but I think most people like to feel if they wanted to they could pick up an attractive man or woman if they were not with their SO. Possibly midlife type thoughts made him feel the need to feed his ego and he took a wrong turn. Just a mans perspective.


I'm beginning to think this was his reasoning, but it still sucks!


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

So even after I my husband told the OW he would not be talking to her anymore because he was working on his marriage, and even after I talked to her and she denied talking to him in a year, I hack into his messenger account last night and what do I see?!?! She's still sending feelers out every few weeks such as little sad faces. To my husband's credit, they were unread and he hasn't sent anything back. That on top of the checking of my Facebook is a little stalker-ish to me. Why won't she just go away????


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

checkingout said:


> So even after I my husband told the OW he would not be talking to her anymore because he was working on his marriage, and even after I talked to her and she denied talking to him in a year, I hack into his messenger account last night and what do I see?!?! She's still sending feelers out every few weeks such as little sad faces. To my husband's credit, they were unread and he hasn't sent anything back. That on top of the checking of my Facebook is a little stalker-ish to me. Why won't she just go away????


she's pathetic. might be able to serve a restraining order. Not sure of legalities on that. maybe some others are..

I would not contact her. Keep monitoring him as it is a good test. Through being ignored she will move her pathetic self onto another soon enough. She may be a stalker and in that case I still say a restraining order is wise. Talk to the police and see what hey say or an attorney.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Unless she is threatening or you have some proof that she intends to do you or a family member harm, I doubt you can get a restraining order. 

I suggest using whatever medium she is trying to contact on to send her a message back clearly stating to stop trying to contact and that any further attempts at contact will be considered harassment. Then, if she tries again, have your husband report her to the police for harassment. The police will contact her and tell her to stop, if she contacts again, she can be arrested and if convicted serve time or at least a stiff fine. That should be enough to get her to cool her jets.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

I think this is too much for me. I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive. I'm not getting better. I'm getting more and more paranoid every day. I was having a good day. H and I talked yesterday about the OW and he told me it was just a game again. I asked him if I was out of the picture if she would be someone he would be interested in and he absolutely refused it (I know that's like asking "do I look fat", but I asked anyway). Today I downloaded "Not Just Friends" in audio format and while loading it on his phone, I started snooping and found a message to his brother with him stating "It was the excitement and the lady is sexy!!" That hit me so hard and took away all the progress we seem to have made the last few weeks. I didn't have the entire conversation since it was deleted and it was on the iphone search. 

He cried 2 days in a row this week stating how he didn't want to lose me and that he wants only me and wants to die together, but I have to question who in their right mind would tell their brother how sexy their EA AP is if they really wanted to R with their wife. I feel my sanity slipping a little more every day. I have become insecure, paranoid, needy, and moody. I don't want to be this person.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

checkingout said:


> I think this is too much for me. I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive. I'm not getting better. I'm getting more and more paranoid every day. I was having a good day. H and I talked yesterday about the OW and he told me it was just a game again. I asked him if I was out of the picture if she would be someone he would be interested in and he absolutely refused it *(I know that's like asking "do I look fat", but I asked anyway)*. Today I downloaded "Not Just Friends" in audio format and while loading it on his phone, I started snooping and found a message to his brother with him stating "It was the excitement and the lady is sexy!!" That hit me so hard and took away all the progress we seem to have made the last few weeks. I didn't have the entire conversation since it was deleted and it was on the iphone search.
> 
> He cried 2 days in a row this week stating how he didn't want to lose me and that he wants only me and wants to die together, but I have to question who in their right mind would tell their brother how sexy their EA AP is if they really wanted to R with their wife. I feel my sanity slipping a little more every day. I have become insecure, paranoid, needy, and moody. I don't want to be this person.


Sorry you're here - it definitely sucks. You asked and got the answer you wanted and expected to to get, so don't ask if you don't want to know the honest answer - and yes, I know that he slipped on being honest here, but it's not the worst lie IMO (and I also know that even little lies can destroy everything at this point - I've told my wife that even the smallest lie or omission is enough for divorce now).

I did a lot of comparison myself the first 6-12 months past D-day, and it feels like you're going nuts. What I have done when I struggle is to find a reality as simple as possibble. In these comparison cases, I ask myself if I really believe that I'm the best looking guy in the world and if it's believeable that I have the largest equipment of all men on earth - turns out that the reality and answer to this is - "No, I don't believe that". But at the same time, I make sure to tell myself, that I am who I am, and that's just perfect and certainly good enough. It's up to my wife to decide, if it's good enough for her - if not, she's free to move on.

Your husband is still there, and if you can get to a point where you are 100% satisfied with who you are, you wouldn't need to ask the question in the first place. Work on your self, and accept your husband as a flawed person - as long as he does the same, there is hope (no guarantees though).

Take care.


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## BoooBooo (Jul 26, 2013)

Your post really hits home, H too said it was the excitement etc. 18 months on from the initial EA I find out they are texting each other again. Problem I have is my heart breaks when I think about leaving him and breaks when I think about what he has done. I can only say, your H seems genuinely remorseful.

It is a very difficult decision to make, take care.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

BoooBooo said:


> Your post really hits home, H too said it was the excitement etc. 18 months on from the initial EA I find out they are texting each other again. Problem I have is my heart breaks when I think about leaving him and breaks when I think about what he has done. I can only say, your H seems genuinely remorseful.
> 
> It is a very difficult decision to make, take care.


I am really sorry you're having to deal with this again. How long have you been married? 

Things seem to be going well now. We had a great weekend away and talked and cried together the whole way home Sunday, and he even asked me to marry him again, but my biggest fear is that I will discover they're in contact again.


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## BoooBooo (Jul 26, 2013)

married 19 years, together 25 years. 

H's OW is quite predatory, relying on H's good nature with the initial texting, then H liked the attention and got carried away. :-(


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

Things seem to be going very well. H bought me a new wedding set and asked me to marry him again. We take time every week to go somewhere alone and spent every other almost weekend away. He seems very remorseful and I feel guilty that I question his sincerity all the time. Even when we are away, their "I love you" and "we are so good for each other" are always on my mind. I just don't know how to trust his words that he only wants me. He says he had no feelings and it has been almost 5 months and he doesn't act like he misses her or has a broken heart or anything, but I still question his feelings. 

He says he was trying to stop talking to the OW but he was afraid she would get angry and tell me, but by what I read, it doesn't show that. There were gaps in their conversations of a week or so, but it he was still telling her he loved her a week before Dday. That is what I can't seem to get over. I don't believe he truly wanted to stop, although he has absolutely denied probably 100 times that he had any feelings for her.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

checkingout said:


> He says he was trying to stop talking to the OW but he was afraid she would get angry and tell me, but by what I read, it doesn't show that. There were gaps in their conversations of a week or so, but it he was still telling her he loved her a week before Dday. That is what I can't seem to get over. I don't believe he truly wanted to stop, although he has absolutely denied probably 100 times that he had any feelings for her.


You can't get over it because he continues to lie to you and you cannot accept dishonesty nor should he expect you to do so.

Draw the line. Tell him his words are contradictory and either he steps up to the plate with complete honesty or you're done, that you cannot live a lie.

Or.. accept the deception and at least be honest with yourself, and know that you will never, ever be able to trust this man ever again nor can you take anything he says as the truth without verifying it yourself.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You can't get over it because he continues to lie to you and you cannot accept dishonesty nor should he expect you to do so.
> 
> Draw the line. Tell him his words are contradictory and either he steps up to the plate with complete honesty or you're done, that you cannot live a lie.
> 
> Or.. accept the deception and at least be honest with yourself, and know that you will never, ever be able to trust this man ever again nor can you take anything he says as the truth without verifying it yourself.


This is what I struggle with. This is a person who loved me so much he had his wedding ring tattooed on a few years ago. He never goes out and always wants me to go wherever he goes after work. I never had a single doubt about him being faithful for 20 years. It is only the last year that his behavior changed and I became suspicious. He says he thought I didn't love him anymore and that he did it at first just to get back at me because he thought I was talking to people online and it just went too far. 

I wonder if he was in the fog and thought he had feelings for her, but after snapping out of it realized he didn't. He does admit it made him feel good that someone wanted him, but that he really didn't have feelings.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

For those of you who have been through this, is there a point where you just know they are sincere? He is trying to do everything he can to prove he loves me, but maybe it's just that I need more time. It has been almost 5 months and I'm afraid that if we keep going over this, I'll just push him away. Also, he has asked me to renew our vows and while I really do like the idea, I'm afraid that it might be just out of guilt and that those memories will be tarnished with thoughts of the affair.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

checkingout said:


> For those of you who have been through this, is there a point where you just know they are sincere?


If they really are sincere, and you are looking for it, eventually I think it clicks. It took almost a year for me. I'm still dealing with the pain of the betrayal, but I've seen signs that show she is sincere. The biggest sign was when she agreed to work on something that was going to take her away from home for several nights per week over a span of weeks and didn't ask me about it. She got very defensive about it at first, but then a couple days later, out of the blue she apologized to me and assured me it wouldn't happen again. She admited she was afraid I would say no and she would feel like a child being told by a parent what to do. To me, that was very sincire. It was balanced, she acknowledge how it affected me and decided to quit her other productions. So, she is working 2 productions total over the next 12 months vs. the 7 she worked the past 12.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

checkingout said:


> he had his wedding ring tattooed on a few years ago.


How the heck do you tatoo a ring to your body?



checkingout said:


> He says he thought I didn't love him anymore and that he did it at first just to get back at me because he thought I was talking to people online and it just went too far.


He's a creative blameshifter. 



checkingout said:


> I wonder if he was in the fog and thought he had feelings for her, but after snapping out of it realized he didn't.


That would be very convenient.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

lenzi said:


> How the heck do you tatoo a ring to your body?.


Ummmm........not an actual ring, just a band tattooed on with the date.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

checkingout said:


> For those of you who have been through this, is there a point where you just know they are sincere? He is trying to do everything he can to prove he loves me, but maybe it's just that I need more time. It has been almost 5 months and I'm afraid that if we keep going over this, I'll just push him away. Also, he has asked me to renew our vows and while I really do like the idea, I'm afraid that it might be just out of guilt and that those memories will be tarnished with thoughts of the affair.


I think it's different from person to person to person, from situation to situation. And 5 months is nothing in a process like this.

I'm 27 months past D-day and I can tell you that I wouldn't dream of giving my wife 100% trust in this matter. Sincerity, I'm afraid, can be faked. She did it 3 years ago, she can do it again. The difference this time is that now I know too that she's capable of pulling it off.

You need to process your feelings, your sense of loss, pain, your new life emerging and it takes exactly the amount of time that it takes. If your husband tries to make you "get over it already", he isn't sincere and definitely not worth the effort, IMO. He has to own his sh!t.

What you need to consider is the way you're going over it again and again. Offensiveness, being rude and raking him over the coals are no-no's and understandable turnoffs, even if he's sincere. But talking about it, processing it, communicating - nothing wrong with that, it's called getting through it instead of getting over it.

As for the renewal, we're all different. No right or wrong answer. Some do it and get a meaningfull experience out of it, others like me, wouldn't dream of it. I gave her my "I do", for better and for worse, both in city hall and later in church in front of our entire family and all our friends. I meant it, she obviously didn't, absolutely no need to repeat it, I think I would stand there thinking "yeah, right".

Working to understand herself, changing her beliefs and values, making up for the wrongdoings - that would mean so much more to me than hearing empty promises in front of a priest. But I know some people can find a deeper spiritual satisfaction in renewing vows, so if it makes sense to you, then do it. Because YOU think it's a good idea, not just to relief your husband from some some guilt.

Take care.


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## checkingout (Jun 7, 2012)

cpacan said:


> I think it's different from person to person to person, from situation to situation. And 5 months is nothing in a process like this.
> 
> I'm 27 months past D-day and I can tell you that I wouldn't dream of giving my wife 100% trust in this matter. Sincerity, I'm afraid, can be faked. She did it 3 years ago, she can do it again. The difference this time is that now I know too that she's capable of pulling it off.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. You've made me see things from a little different angle.


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