# Wife was sexually abused as child and hates sex



## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

My wife was abused as a child. she hates sex, touch or anything that can lead to sex. she has sexual fantasy I can't fulfill. I'm at the point I want out of the marriage, but I feel like if I could get her help i could turn this around. Need some kind of advice going crazy. We have been married 13 years and I can't see life with out her, But I would like to have a quality sex life. I have talked to her about it until I just don't want to talk about it anymore. She seems to not want help and I'm getting depressed from thinking about it all the time.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

cheese puff, I think the thing to remember is that you have full control of your own actions and choices but not hers. If she's not ready to work through her past and the bagggage it's caused then you can't for her to.

I'm not saying what you should do as much as I'm saying you "always have a choice". I don't think you gave us enough info regarding "she has sexual fantasy I can't fulfill" though. If you wan't useful replies then you'll have to elaborate some.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

I should have not called it a fantasy. But she feels like I'm a nasty dirty person because I want sex. Also i get all the sex I want but it better be quick and she just lays there's. outside the bedroom she is the love of my life and a good wife.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Has she sought therapy for her abuse? Whether it can be overcome or not depends on her attitude about it and what she specifically endured.

Child sexual abuse is so heinous because it does rob a person of the sex life they were supposed to have. Ive heard both men and women alike talk about their sexual abuse as children and the ways it has affected them as adults.

If your primary exposure to sex is that you have to lie there and endure it and its a shameful thing you cant talk to anyone about because doing so would bring harm to you or those you love - how can that set you up for a healthy sex life later?

However - it can be dealt with and overcome. As an example Elizabeth Smart had been raped several times per day for over a year and was still able to overcome. Of course I'm not privy to what goes on in her marriage but she speaks about being determined to not let her captor have any more of her life than he already took.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Has it been like this for 13 years???

If it has, you have basically given her permission and accepted the way she acts. Kind of hard to now say her actions (or inactions) are unacceptable. That being said, you can steer her towards mental help.

If you have tried to get her help and she refuses to go, then you only have three choices: (1) accept the way she is and a virtually sexless marriage, (2) leave the marriage and find someone else or (3) request an open marriage to have someone else fill your sexual needs.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

cheese puff said:


> My wife was abused as a child. she hates sex, touch or anything that can lead to sex. she has sexual fantasy I can't fulfill. I'm at the point I want out of the marriage, but I feel like if I could get her help i could turn this around. Need some kind of advice going crazy. We have been married 13 years and I can't see life with out her, But I would like to have a quality sex life. I have talked to her about it until I just don't want to talk about it anymore. She seems to not want help and I'm getting depressed from thinking about it all the time.



Your wife's sexual abuse has nothing to do with you.

As your wife, she should of gone to therapy and marriage counseling not just for herself, but for your marriage together.

13 years later, she hasn't done much and won't talk about it anymore either and the sex life is horrible.

You can't fix her. She has to want to do this on her own and if you push her, she won't do it. If you do nothing, she won't do anything either.

I say, get divorced and still be good friends. Find a woman that has a high healthy sex drive like most do.

I wouldn't recommend an open marriage because its cheating, and breaking your marriage vows.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I imagine an open marriage would just feel like more sexual abuse to her anyway (emotional pain caused by her husband having sex with another.)

This is not to excuse her. Sex is very important in a marriage. Its the only thing that makes it a marriage because you can be bound by blood and the law with people you aren't sexual with.

Ive been intherapy for two months over sexual issues and it is very heavy to deal with. Its no small thing to go through, that's all I'm saying.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

13 years. Unless you are willing to take action, you can't expect any change. Sorry you are here.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

cheese puff said:


> My wife was abused as a child. she hates sex, touch or anything that can lead to sex. she has sexual fantasy I can't fulfill. I'm at the point I want out of the marriage, but I feel like if I could get her help i could turn this around. Need some kind of advice going crazy. We have been married 13 years and I can't see life with out her, But I would like to have a quality sex life. I have talked to her about it until I just don't want to talk about it anymore. She seems to not want help and I'm getting depressed from thinking about it all the time.


She clearly needs therapy for both her happiness and if you are to have a remote possibility of getting your needs met. If she just lies there then resentment toward you is building most likely. She hates the touch, etc... God that is awful. I feel for you.
Get her help or move on to less damaged goods. She needs to place at minimum enough importance on your needs to get the help she needs from a professional.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Cheese, welcome.

My wife was sexually abused when she was in grade school. It has deeply affected her as an adult. I have known about it for only the last 2 years, whereas we've been married for 31 yrs now. So yes I have some understanding of the frustrations and confusions you are feeling.

Yes you love her. And I bet you have some anger at her abuser and a lot of sadness for how it has affected her. This is all fine and healthy. It does not however erase your own needs in a relationship. Nor does it invalidate your feelings about your needs not being met.

It is not as if she had a choice in the absue, and it isn't as if she is knowingly choosing today to harm you. So again there is a confusion of feelings about your situation.

She in fact does not understand sexuality the way a normal adult does. Her brain was wired when she was young and by being exposed to abnormal things. In many ways she is stuck emotionally at the age the abuse occurred.

She is not going to "get over it" by simply wanting to, nor by you talking to her. She will need good qualified long term therapy to come to terms with things. And even then there will be residue.

I suggest the book "Haunted Marriage" for you. If for no other reason than to see you are not alone and to understand the magnitude of what her recovery will entail.

Things are not going to change until she does years of therapy. Sorry, that is just the fact given what you have described about the extent of her problems with sex.

D is a tough thing to consider under the circumstances with it not being her fault. However, it is her fault for not at some point recognizing that she as a responsible adult must strive to bring a healthy self to her marriage. She does not have the right to unilaterally impose an unfulfilling unhappy marriage on you. She can choose to not deal with her issues, but you have the option of not staying with her.

Telling her "You need therapy", or "Get yourself cured or I'm leaving" is not going to work. If you are willing to give it another 6 months you can nudge her in the direction of therapy and see how it goes.

I would suggest marriage counseling and to try hard to make it as non-threatening as possible. Make an appointment and go by yourself if she won't go. I bet she tags along though. Make it about meeting both of your needs. Make it about putting together a vision of the future you both want. Be sure the therapist knows about her abuse but don't make it the focus of therapy quickly.

You'll find out after a few therapy sessions if she is willing to really work on the marriage or if she is too scared to. Once she seems committed to the process you can then try to lead her to know her abuse is an issue she needs to tackle. She'll need her own individual therapist who specializes in sex abuse, not your marriage therapist.

You are a Secondary Survivor, btw. She is a Survivor of sex abuse. Friends and family are Secondaries. You too have been touched by this evil.

It is ok to tell her how you feel about the abuse etc, but be very careful to make it clear you don't blame her. Abuse victims frequently blame themselves and/or feel great shame about the abuse. There are psychological side effects from the abuse, but the victim has great difficulty separating those side effects from the abuse event in their mind. What I mean is that they then attach shame to being harmed by the abuse. They feel shame for feeling shame! They feel guilt for feeling guilt. They feel very threatened when their relationship dysfunctions are blamed on the abuse, as if they are being blamed for the abuse itself.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

Talked to the wife about it she has agreed to work on it. I have joined a support group online and one of the ladies from the group that is a survivor talked to us over the phone. It has gave us both hope we can get past this. Learned a lot in hr of talking to the lady from the group. My wife's abuse happened at such a young age and for many years 4 untill 19 she has developed a way to check out during sexual touch. We started reading a book together few months back "sexual healing journey by wendy maltz". Both the support group, book ,a councelor said this will take years to heal from and I can no way rush this. My wife has been having sex with me once a week to keep me happy even tho she does not enjoy it. That in a sad way shows she is willing to work on our marriage.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

hawkrak said:


> outside the bedroom she is the love of my life and a good wife.


Yes we do everything together ,have fun, When I come home from work the house is clean and a home cooked meal. She takes care of her looks. Great with the kids. She try's to be a good wife. Even tho she don't like sex she does it once a week to keep me happy.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

cheese puff said:


> My wife's abuse happened at such a young age and for many years 4 untill 19 she has developed a way to check out during sexual touch. We started reading a book tonight together "sexual healing journey by wendy maltz". Both the support group, book ,a councelor said this will take years to heal from and I can no way rush this. My wife has been having sex with me once a week to keep me happy even tho she does not enjoy it. That in a sad way shows she is willing to work on our marriage.


Maybe. 

Mine had years of the worst kind of abuse too. She was the "little wife" sexually, so he said. All the family knew what was going on. Routine. 

She decided sex was war so her job was to ruin it for the man, and boy was she gifted at that. Just imagine if you switched your attitude from how to please someone to making sure they're miserable. 

Her eldest sister came through it just fine. She was the one who confronted the father and made him stop. But my wife was the one who internalized it the most, and became a real cunning emotional abuser. It is totally up to the adult victim of child sexual abuse whether they heal, but I do see how the ones that can confront the accuser do better.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sexual Healing is an EXCELLENT how to for survivors.

1. She has to own that she isn't normal. 
2. Your wife has to own that it is not her fault for not being normal. This is the part that takes the most time to get through due to the YEARS of shame and guilt.

3. Your wife has to *WANT* normal

Once she has come to the above 3, she then has to learn what normal looks like, feels like, sounds like and then she can learn to let go and embrace her sexual self.

It's painful at times but as her husband you can be an incredible source of comfort and support. She can do this all on her own, but to have someone hold you hand during this journey must be extremely comforting.

Dont allow her warped sense of normal sexuality go unchallenged. Touch as often as possible. Emotional trust is more than most people really contemplate. Remind her often that you are her husband and you can be trusted.

Good journey to you both!


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

We are doing the relearning touch part of the book sexual healing. Talked to therapist it helped. My wife grew up with out a father then was abused by her step father. The only touch she has had from a man is for sex.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

cheese puff said:


> We are doing the relearning touch part of the book sexual healing. Talked to therapist it helped. My wife grew up with out a father then was abused by her step father. The only touch she has had from a man is for sex.


she is a gem in many many ways, don't blame her as her past still haunts her till now. go for therapy, fulfil all her other needs and wants, just keep her happy, build new memories to bury her past. go for a holiday, cook for her, heck, take the kids out and give her some "me" time. don't push her or she might think that u are no better than the scum who forced himself on her. a lot of work to be done, most important, don't quit on her!


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## Kendra45 (Aug 2, 2013)

You don't have any control over whether or not she gets help, and pushing her is only going to make her mad. Respect what your wife has been through, and understand that there's the potential for your sex life to never be as fulfilling as you want it to be. If you're that upset about the lack of sex, then get a divorce. Pushing her and putting pressure on her is only going to make things worse, and she might start to see you as an abuser. Tell her that you'll be there to support her, and if she wants to start counseling you'll do whatever you can to help and leave it at that. But if it's a deal breaker, tell her so and move on. It's probably extremely difficult for her to see you so unhappy, and it probably makes her feel like an object if you push her.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

We have sex at least 2 times week so I'm not in a sexless marriage it's hard to explain. Example of how our sex, I have to do as little touch and kissing as possible, pull her pants off give her oral until she gets off, then intercourse as fast as possible. I have told her I feel like Im taking advantage of her like this and I hate it. She says she hates touch for example if I want to set on the couch cuddle together watch tv she hates that. If I want to give her a massage she hates it. She told me tonight to look at it like this when she was 5 she was forced to lay naked and he would touch her it gives her flash backs when I do that. she also hates me to tell her she looks good or talk sexual to her. She said as she got older she made him stop touching her, the jerk would set in his recliner nude, jacking off tell her how good she looked and if she would come join him he would give her sex she would never forget. It makes me sad to know there is **** on this earth like that. I know where the bastard lives and would like to cut his **** off. She has agreed to work on it and is not mad. She says I'm going to have to take my time.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

like we have said, give her the support that she needs. in many ways, I think you should already thank your lucky starts that both of you can still get together for a little quickie!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I have some serious reservations about you having sex with her. She associates sex and sexuality and male nudity with her abuse as a 5 yr old. I think you should have a session with her counselor to discuss how you should participate in her recovery. Know that the counselor cannot reveal anything to you which your wife does not approve. I think the counselor should be asked directly if he/she thinks it is helpful for you to be having sex under these circumstances.

It really does worry me.

As to you knowing the location of her abuser --- you are a better man than I. My wife's story is probably quite similar to your wife's, and if I knew where the guy was he would not be breathing by tonight. I rationalize that he is probably dead of old age now, as he would be in his 80's most likely. He was a neighbor so I don't know his name. But I could get it easily from relatives of W's. We are far too civilized these days in dealing with scum who abuse children.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

cheese puff said:


> We have sex at least 2 times week so I'm not in a sexless marriage it's hard to explain. Example of how our sex, I have to do as little touch and kissing as possible, pull her pants off give her oral until she gets off, then intercourse as fast as possible. I have told her I feel like Im taking advantage of her like this and I hate it. She says she hates touch for example if I want to set on the couch cuddle together watch tv she hates that. If I want to give her a massage she hates it. She told me tonight to look at it like this when she was 5 she was forced to lay naked and he would touch her it gives her flash backs when I do that. she also hates me to tell her she looks good or talk sexual to her. She said as she got older she made him stop touching her, the jerk would set in his recliner nude, jacking off tell her how good she looked and if she would come join him he would give her sex she would never forget. It makes me sad to know there is **** on this earth like that. I know where the bastard lives and would like to cut his **** off. She has agreed to work on it and is not mad. She says I'm going to have to take my time.


As bad as this may sound, you need to make your expectations clear up front, set goals for treatment, and potentially hold her accountable. You maybe can't expect a certain outcome within a certain time frame. But you certainly can expect she will make a maximum effort to improve. Her failure to do so would suggest she considers herself more important than you - a huge problem.

Unfortunately, you have a couple of strikes against you here. The first is your wife married you in her state. She knew she had hangups and knew physical closeness (sexual and non-sexual) is a normal desire in marriage. So, why would she marry knowing she was unable to meet your needs? Likely because she was looking to meet her needs and was not too worried about the rest of it.

The second red flag is she already is trying to lower your expectations even before getting help. Optimally, her response would be "I will try my best to overcome my issues and be a good wife to you". Instead, you're getting "we'll see". When have you ever said "we'll see" in a situation that hinged on your effort, when you were enthusiastic about getting it done?

You need to proceed cautiously here. Hope for the best, but don't let hope cloud your good judgment when determining whether she is progressing towards the necessary outcome. And, remember you don't owe her because of something she suffered over which you had zero control. You might not be cut out to have a low affection marriage or a cheerful martyr, and there's nothing wrong with admitting that and moving on.


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## barrett82 (Jun 11, 2013)

This is my first post, I've been lurking for about a year and have learned a lot from others experiences.

I feel compelled to respond to the comments just made about the OP's W choosing to marry knowing that she wasn't going to be sexually available. 
In my experience, I dreamed about experiencing healthy intimacy in marriage. I never thought that my past would continue to cause damage to the extent that it did. 
I was eager to love and be loved and was blindsided by fear and anxiety that kept sending me running. 
I wanted healthy intimacy and longed to experience it with my husband but the minute I acted on those desires, the memories and feelings dominated my thoughts.

It does not mean that the love is not strong enough, it just takes a long time to feel safe. Unfortunately, we have convinced ourselves we are worthless, that we weren't good enough to be spared the abuse in the first place like all the other kids. 
Oh, we WANT to be worth something. We are just so afraid we will end up being tricked again. 

We all try to love the best we can. We don't always know what healthy love even looks like. 
Is there any way of knowing whether or not OP's wife will ever open her heart enough and allow herself to begin healing? Hopefully she will begin to open her eyes and heart just long enough during sex that she can begin to see that it is her love who is there and no one else. 
I think its narrowminded to assume that someone who has been broken by something would marry a man knowing she wouldn't be able to be intimate and not care. There are people out there would but I believe most of us believe that love will fix things. 

To the OP, I hope you and your wife are able to connect intimately.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Barrett82, welcome.

I hope you are doing well.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

cheese puff said:


> when she was 5 she was forced to lay naked and he would touch her it gives her flash backs when I do that. she also hates me to tell her she looks good or talk sexual to her. She said as she got older she made him stop touching her, the jerk would set in his recliner nude, jacking off tell her how good she looked and if she would come join him he would give her sex she would never forget. It makes me sad to know there is **** on this earth like that. I know where the bastard lives and would like to cut his **** off.


I wouldn't cut anything off, but maybe giving him a good old-fashioned a** kicking might make you feel a lot better. 

However, that won't solve everything. After reading your other threads, it looks like your wife has also cheated on you in the past, probably multiple times. Someone please explain to me how someone who "hates sex" so much could do that? It looks like she has multiple issues, and she can't blame them all on abuse. 

I wish you luck, I really do, but fixing everything is a long shot here.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

she cheated once, took me years to understand it also. it took me 2 years of IC to understand it. that has been 6 years ago we have got passed that. I don't think you on here understand my wifes problems. If I came home everyday from work, beat her, verbally abused and raped her, she would not stop me. its sick how the abuser twist there mind and brainwashes them. the guy she cheated with took advantage of her and she is programed not to stop him, just let him hurry up and get it over with then he will stop.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

btw before you guys judge us again and tell me to divorce. today the wife sent some sexy text, took the kids to her moms for the night, cooked me a great meal, gave me a BJ some 69 action and some sex that has left a smile on my face. she had multiple O's "she cant fake hers" also which put me on top of the world. but what sucks is I cant tell her how much I enjoyed it " triggers her" we will get past it. I love my wife because she will work on things if I just ask her to. if any one else is going threw this highly recommend the book sexual healing.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

cheese puff said:


> btw before you guys judge us again and tell me to divorce. today the wife sent some sexy text, took the kids to her moms for the night, cooked me a great meal, gave me a BJ some 69 action and some sex that has left a smile on my face. she had multiple O's "she cant fake hers" also which put me on top of the world. but what sucks is I cant tell her how much I enjoyed it " triggers her" we will get past it. I love my wife because she will work on things if I just ask her to. if any one else is going threw this highly recommend the book sexual healing.


Good it's a start!:smthumbup:


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

we have been reading that book for about 4 months some of the technics for relearning touch seem odd for adults but they must work. its not like she was magically cured she struggled after the sex and wanted to be alone. we read that was normal for her to get a feeling of being dirty or not wanting me to touch her after sex. the books tell us to try to hold and kiss as long she can take it. after awhile that feeling should go away.


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## barrett82 (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks for the welcome Thor. I've been meaning to introduce myself the proper way but.....

It is a shame that so many responses to OP suggest divorce as the best option. 
If he sees effort and growth in this area, no matter how small it may be, its obviously enough for him. 
maybe he just needs some acknowledgment or something. 
At the same time, I don't think a person should sacrifice there own well-being just because there spouse chooses not to get well.
I don't think its abandonment if you escape a sinking ship. 
I also don't think that it does children any good for parents to stay in a destructive marriage.


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## Brzon (Feb 6, 2013)

cheese puff, you're doing great. Stay the course if you can, it sounds like you have a wonderful marriage waiting on the other side.
These days, I'm getting no touch, no sex and very moderate respect from my wife, and not because of any abuse that I know of, she's "only" suffering from anxiety disorders and depression IMO. (Certainly some issues on my side as well.) And yet she vehemently rejects any suggestion of IC for her or MC for us. I'd almost love to trade places with you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Your wife CAN heal from this. I'm living proof!

Continue with the book, do all the exercises. Then do them again. You'll find that when you go through the book the second time, every thing is a bit easier.

At the same time your wife is relearning what touch is supposed to be, she is replacing anxious thoughts and feeling with loving thoughts and feeling. Then she will feel so competent and confident because look how far she has come!

Dont listen to the angry husbands. They should take their own advice but so many times people come here and they read what they need to do to improve their lives and marriages but it's too hard to actually make changes, to set boundaries and limits. Maybe they need more validation that they are worthy of having their needs met?

Brzon, If your wife is suffering from anxiety/depression and she refuses treatment she is telling you she's okay with your pain. She's okay with you going without so that she doesn't have to face tough self work. That is not a life partner but a dependant. Is that what you want?

Limits and boundaries! Tell your wife what youwant from life and from your relationship. Then tell her you will support her as long as she is actively working on getting better, but you will not accept a disabled relationship as normal.


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## Brzon (Feb 6, 2013)

Anon Pink, not to hijack this thread, but I've grown to realize that I'm codependent. That and a general lack of decisiveness on my part are certainly part of the problem.

Reading MMSL has helped me understand my contribution to our difficulties, and I'm determined to find a position of strength for myself before I start making demands. It's always easy to blame others.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Theseus said:


> After reading your other threads, it looks like your wife has also cheated on you in the past, probably multiple times. Someone please explain to me how someone who "hates sex" so much could do that?


Abuse really messes up the brain wiring in a young girl. As an adult the wiring is still messed up. Depending on who the abuser was and what the circumstances were, she might seem normally sexual as a teen or even more sexually active than average. She may have no problem having sex with her boyfriend and fiance. Yet after the wedding ceremony he is now family, and that may suddenly put him in the category of dangerous abusive male (in her mind).

Suddenly she has issues with sex within the marriage. Yet she has no problems with sex outside the marriage. She may miss the sex, and/or she may miss the sense of approval she gets from men when she provides sex.

An affair may be something she desires and enjoys very much, yet she is unable to have sex within her marriage.

Many abuse victims have issues associated with touch and emotional closeness in addition to sex itself.

Child sex abusers should be executed in the slowest most painful method possible.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

Thor said:


> Abuse really messes up the brain wiring in a young girl. As an adult the wiring is still messed up. Depending on who the abuser was and what the circumstances were, she might seem normally sexual as a teen or even more sexually active than average. She may have no problem having sex with her boyfriend and fiance. Yet after the wedding ceremony he is now family, and that may suddenly put him in the category of dangerous abusive male (in her mind).
> 
> Suddenly she has issues with sex within the marriage. Yet she has no problems with sex outside the marriage. She may miss the sex, and/or she may miss the sense of approval she gets from men when she provides sex.
> 
> ...


our marriage changed once the kids got here. It was like a demon possessed my wife at the hospital. she has struggled so much since there birth. we went from sex everyday to nothing and it was like she hated me. she started seeing me as a nasty person and did not want me to touch her.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

cheese puff said:


> our marriage changed once the kids got here. It was like a demon possessed my wife at the hospital. she has struggled so much since there birth. we went from sex everyday to nothing and it was like she hated me. she started seeing me as a nasty person and did not want me to touch her.


That because once she became a mother, she realized for the first time just what innocense is and felt a fierce and over powering urge to kill anyone who could take away that innocense. 

I went through the same thing. Went from seeing my husband as a man, a randy man, to a man who might be capable of unspeakable things. You have to understand that the abuser blames the victim for being too pretty, parents (if told) will also blame the victim for being somewhere she shouldn't have been or doing something she shouldn't have done. So to a victim of CSA who has just become a mother, she realizes how every man is a potential abuser and every person is a potential secondary abuser. Really brings out the worst....and the best! Verocious protector of her children, but won't trust anyone to help with them. I totally shut my husband out, didn't trust anyone at all for YEARS.

This is why a LOT of young victims can't really be helped until they get that rage coming up. Once the rage appears, they are ready to heal. The rage means they are not taking the blame any more and are pissed off at those who should have protected them, supported them and helped them cope.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Anon Pink, thanks for that post. It helps to hear it from a woman first hand.

When my wife gave birth to our first, a girl, she definitely was having similar experiences to what you had. Though she never told me at the time. She would rage at me unpredictably, she would be in a bad or cold mood all the time.

I seriously thought about divorce, and even approached her about some MC (which she refused), but ultimately I decided I would not leave my infant daughter to an uncertain future with whomever became her step dad, presuming my wife would remarry if we divorced.

Ironically the one thing I worried about, my daughter be molested, was the one thing which likely could never happen because my wife would be hyper sensitive about keeping men away from her daughter.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I remember your story. The OM taunting you and all. So it wasn't just once when she was drunk?

She trickle truthed you the details of the affair?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> Anon Pink, thanks for that post. It helps to hear it from a woman first hand.
> 
> When my wife gave birth to our first, a girl, she definitely was having similar experiences to what you had. Though she never told me at the time. She would rage at me unpredictably, she would be in a bad or cold mood all the time.
> 
> ...



Thor, I was in therapy with a wonderful therapist for two years during my 30's but could never confide about the sexual abuse. It wasn't until I was turning 40 I realized I had to tell a therapist everything so I could really complete my healing. I had already taken myself through a lot of self imposed milestones and successes, but knew I had further to go. 

The essential problem is a matter of trust and I still deal with fully trusting my husband. But that is connected with the secondary abuse of how it was handled back when I was 10 years old. It was blamed on me by my mother (and the fvcking police who accused me of making it up because I identified several cars as the THE CAR he was driving. WTF does a 10 year old girl know about cars!!!!) who showed her disgust with what happened by blaming me. So when it happened a second and third time, I knew to keep quite. When it happened a fourth time I became suicidal. That was all between the ages of 10 and 15. I was an absolute fvcking mess in my teens and early 20's! Believe it nor, these were 4 different events with 4 different strangers. I felt like I had a neon sign above my head that only perverts could see. "Stupid Girl, come get her!"

I am now 50 and with a new therapist, the 4th. (My 2nd and 3rd therapists werent a good fit) I go into therapy every few years knowing that my early experiences color the way I view things. My marriage has been defined by periods of peaceful co-existence to periods of disgust with him, because I push him away and that's where he stays. I have always wanted him to care enough about me to not allow me to push him away. I have learned to push less harshly, then to push gently. Now I just withdraw. He still stays where ever the hell I put him and I've reached a point where I have communicated what I need him to do. But after writing this, Ive realized I haven't been fully honest with him about my pattern of pushing him, why I do it and what I NEED him to do as a response. 

And yet I'm still angry that he has been so fvcking passive that once again, it's me fixing this. I would really like for him to try to figure some of this out on his own!!! I know it was his passivity that attracted me in the first place. I wonder if my healing has taken me to a point where we are no longer compatible. I wonder if I have reached a point where I am nearly the woman I was supposed to be, had all that crap never happened, and that woman would never be attracted to such a passive man? I just don't know.

My trust in love is tenuous at best because the woman who was supposed to protect me didn't. All these years I have felt like the puppet master holding the reins that burn. Too afraid to let go and without someone to hand it all over to. I want HIM to take the strings but Ive made him so afraid of touching the strings, lest he do the wrong thing, he just waits to be told what to do, which is also part of his nature.

Sexually, I am oodles more open and explorative than most of the women I know, at least those women who will openly discuss such things. I know I would not be here today if I hadn't met and married him. I doubt many men could have put up with a wife like me. It is my gratitude that keeps me in this marriage and keeps me trying to make it what I need it to be. I waffle between wondering if I ask too much of him, considering his natural passivity, and wondering if I am wasting my time with a man who simply isn't right for me anymore.

I decided to post this for other husbands, like cheese puff and you. This is the journey your wives are facing. Dont loose yourself in helping her grow and heal, but be prepared to grow yourself because once a person learns how to grow and heal...the sky's the limit!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Thor, I was in therapy with a wonderful therapist for two years during my 30's but could never confide about the sexual abuse. It wasn't until I was turning 40 I realized I had to tell a therapist everything so I could really complete my healing. I had already taken myself through a lot of self imposed milestones and successes, but knew I had further to go.
> 
> The essential problem is a matter of trust and I still deal with fully trusting my husband. But that is connected with the secondary abuse of how it was handled back when I was 10 years old. It was blamed on me by my mother (and the fvcking police who accused me of making it up because I identified several cars as the THE CAR he was driving. WTF does a 10 year old girl know about cars!!!!) who showed her disgust with what happened by blaming me. So when it happened a second and third time, I knew to keep quite. When it happened a fourth time I became suicidal. That was all between the ages of 10 and 15. I was an absolute fvcking mess in my teens and early 20's! Believe it nor, these were 4 different events with 4 different strangers. I felt like I had a neon sign above my head that only perverts could see. "Stupid Girl, come get her!"
> 
> ...


Hi there,

I've been in the same position as your husband - having a wife who could not shake the demons of her past abuse (although, truth be told, my ex did not try very hard) and saying she needed me to prove myself to her daily. I think you are missing the boat on your husband's mindset. I know you are dealing with much, so understand I'm trying to help out and not cut you down.

When you wonder whether you H is too clueless to know what you need from him or to passive to do it, you miss the most likely scenario _ that he's tired from all the years of dealing with your dysfunction. You are essentially asking him to not only tolerate being treated unfairly but to muster up the courage to ask for more. He is not weak for not coming back to you the way you want time and again. He is strong for fighting against you pushing him away hard enough to stay put and not be swept clear out of your life 

When you suggest that maybe you have outgrown him, nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that you are making unfair demands on him and he has withstood that for some time. You are unable to keep yourself consistently strong mentally / emotionally yet expect him to do that for himself and prop you up as well.

Let that sink in a bit.

Now, you may be right in that he is not who you need right now. but, if that is so, it is likely because you have used him up, not because you have outgrown him.

Always keep in mind that he did not cause your abuse nor could he have done anything to prevent it. So, you have zero right to expect that he will make serious, long-term (if not permanent) adjustments for something beyond his control. Yet you have asked, and he has provided. and for that, you are blessed beyond reasonable expectation.

I've drawn upon my experiences and thpse of other men similarly situated, and it seems that sometimes the abuse survivor can adopt a mindset that the world "owes them" a good life, attentive spouse, financial plenty,etc. because of what they endured as children. don't let yourself fall into that trap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Thor, I was in therapy with a wonderful therapist for two years during my 30's but could never confide about the sexual abuse. It wasn't until I was turning 40 I realized I had to tell a therapist everything so I could really complete my healing. I had already taken myself through a lot of self imposed milestones and successes, but knew I had further to go.
> 
> The essential problem is a matter of trust and I still deal with fully trusting my husband. But that is connected with the secondary abuse of how it was handled back when I was 10 years old. It was blamed on me by my mother (and the fvcking police who accused me of making it up because I identified several cars as the THE CAR he was driving. WTF does a 10 year old girl know about cars!!!!) who showed her disgust with what happened by blaming me. So when it happened a second and third time, I knew to keep quite. When it happened a fourth time I became suicidal. That was all between the ages of 10 and 15. I was an absolute fvcking mess in my teens and early 20's! Believe it nor, these were 4 different events with 4 different strangers. I felt like I had a neon sign above my head that only perverts could see. "Stupid Girl, come get her!"
> 
> ...


Is it fair on him ?

Do you keep doing this because you get away doing this to him ?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I find myself feeling more charitable towards Anon Pink than perhaps others. I guess it is because I can see how I fit in with how she describes her husband, and I still have a lot of sorrow for my wife despite her passing on some of the fallout of the abuse to me.

But first I want to just offer my theory/opinion that the reactions of the adults to the abused child are frequently far more damaging than the actual abuse events. Not always, and I am aware that some abuse is itself quite horrible. Nevertheless I do see a consistent thread in the stories of women who were told that it was somehow their fault or that they would now be undesirable if the fact came out. There seems to me as much room for social change in this area as there is for going after the abusers.

Anyhow, I think Anon's husband probably is as she senses, burned out and gun shy. Having been pushed away in the past may have left him unwilling to take chances now. I think the antidote for the current issues is as much open honesty as possible so that he knows what you are thinking and feeling. And you have to be ready to receive his thoughts even if they are not comfortable for you.

It is not that he is still the same passive person you married. He has changed a lot over the years. It may be true that you two are no longer compatible, which would be a result of you both growing but in different directions.

I also have a theory that in many marriages an abused woman marries a man who is pathologically Nice. That is, a Nice Guy in the way Doc Glover describes it in his book. The dysfunctions of both partners are synergystic in a most negative way. This is certainly the case in my marriage.

So I do blame my own inadequacies for being a contributor to the bad marriage, and I bet Anon's husband has some deficiencies which have not helped his marriage.

Anon, it may be quite possible that you are both becoming the people you were meant to be, but there is so much bad history that it is nearly impossible to overcome it. If you imagine not knowing your husband and then meeting him a few months from now, it is entirely possible you two would be able to work together and have a good relationship. Yet in reality the bad history between you is such a huge obstacle to starting anew.

Absent a spectacularly bad choice on the part of one spouse (an affair, an addiction, etc), I believe both partners are approximately equal contributors to the dysfunction.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't want to hijack Cheesepuff's thread. But I think this discussion is something that may be helpful to him and to other husbands. Cheese Puff, please let us know if we should take this discussion elsewhere?




DTO said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I've been in the same position as your husband - having a wife who could not shake the demons of her past abuse (although, truth be told, my ex did not try very hard) and saying she needed me to prove myself to her daily. I think you are missing the boat on your husband's mindset. I know you are dealing with much, so understand I'm trying to help out and not cut you down.


Hi DTO, thanks for the reply. it's highly likely I am missing the boat somewhere. But I hope I am not so high maintenance that my husband feels he has to prove himself over and over. I guess it's possible considering how easily my trust is shaken up. But I also think there are lots of things he could do to prevent that, he chooses not to do them because they are out of his comfort zone. It is what it is.




DTO said:


> When you wonder whether you H is too clueless to know what you need from him or to passive to do it, you miss the most likely scenario _ that he's tired from all the years of dealing with your dysfunction. You are essentially asking him to not only tolerate being treated unfairly but to muster up the courage to ask for more. He is not weak for not coming back to you the way you want time and again. He is strong for fighting against you pushing him away hard enough to stay put and not be swept clear out of your life


You nailed it. I would estimate that 15 years of our marriage I was dysfunctional. Followed by about 7 years of intense and painful work before I could fully believe myself to be "normal" though quirky.. I pushed him away but he never went too far, and he came back, slowly at first but as he grew more confident I wasn't going to revert things improved dramatically.




DTO said:


> When you suggest that maybe you have outgrown him, nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that you are making unfair demands on him and he has withstood that for some time. You are unable to keep yourself consistently strong mentally / emotionally yet expect him to do that for himself and prop you up as well.
> 
> Let that sink in a bit.


You nailed it again! I have not been consistent and he has always been consistent! I don't know how I feel about "expecting him to prop me up as well." I honestly don't think I ask for too much, at this point in our marriage. The storm is over little turtle you can come out now.... But each time the wind blows, even if it's just a summer breeze, the turtle hides in his shell. Have I traumatized him that much??? He says no. He says that is just the way he is. His whole family is like that too. The turtle doesn't get blown away but it doesn't get very far either.




DTO said:


> Now, you may be right in that he is not who you need right now. but, if that is so, it is likely because you have used him up, not because you have outgrown him.
> 
> Always keep in mind that he did not cause your abuse nor could he have done anything to prevent it. So, you have zero right to expect that he will make serious, long-term (if not permanent) adjustments for something beyond his control. Yet you have asked, and he has provided. and for that, you are blessed beyond reasonable expectation.
> 
> ...


That was the first part of healing. I don't feel blame toward all men nor feel as if I am owed. I did go through a time period where I was totally insatiable. I felt like I had YEARS of great sex I had missed and was hell bent on getting caught up! Ive recently caught up. 



Warlock said:


> Is it fair on him?
> 
> Do you keep doing this because you get away doing this to him ?


Not sure how to answer your first question. Life isn't fair. We do the best we can. I am better now and have been better for a good 10 years. I still have periods where I shut down. I would like to not go through them and it would be easier if end those times if I could recognize them for what they are sooner. Generally it takes me several days to recognize I'm in a shut down. I am not angry or even weepy, I just want distance and to be alone. Trouble is that I don't do much of anything except sit and read and seek solitude. I hate those times! 

I think I might do them less if he didn't give me space for the duration. I think they would be shorter if he grabbed me in his arms and lovingly kicked my ass! He will either hand my a chore list with a to be done today, which helps tremendously, or he will make tentative conversation overtures which just piss me off because he is sticking to safe topics and not dealing with the elephant. 

This has been really good cause Ive just connected some dots and I need to talk with him about this.

Thanks DTO and Warlock!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks Thor.



Thor said:


> I also have a theory that in many marriages an *abused woman marries a man who is pathologically Nice. That is, a Nice Guy in the way Doc Glover describes it in his book. The dysfunctions of both partners are synergystic in a most negative way. This is certainly the case in my marriage.*
> 
> So I do blame my own inadequacies for being a contributor to the bad marriage, and I bet Anon's husband has some deficiencies which have not helped his marriage.
> 
> ...


Nailed it! Back when I was completely dysfunctional, I needed the pathological nice guy. Now that I am relatively healthy, I need a husband who will not back away from me, but challenge me. I honestly think he can do this and have been trying to get him to by telling him what I need. I haven't connected all the dots for him and plan to do this as soon as we can get some privacy. 

I know the trust issue may be life long, but if we both recognize the effects of being triggered, and he understands why I NEED him to stand up to me, and how to stand up to me, maybe we can actually get rid of the baggage for good, cause damn my shoulder hurts something fierce!


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My W was seriously abused and raped as a youngster. Stepfather, boyfriends, that kind of thing. I have a thread on it already. 

She has trust issues, and at work they used to figure she was either a man hater or a lesbian, because she wouldn't date guys from work. 

She underwent a lot of intensive therapy for these and other issues in her 20s, and because she is a very strong personality, has overcome a lot of it. But I personally can't get over the trauma the young girl must have felt during those times in her life. I ache for her happiness in the world, and to KNOW how much she's loved. I haven't been a co-dependent kind of guy in the past and although I have nice guy bits I am also pretty much a real world, black and white kind of guy (unless there are flowers involved ha ha). So I don't let her "get away" with sh!t, but at the same time I give her some slack because she's done SO VERY WELL with the childhood and early adulthood she underwent. 

It's difficult to understand if you haven't lived it, or lived very intimately with someone who's lived it. I focus very intensely on her anger issues, where they come from, why they are there, and is her anger covering something else that seems unrelated. I ask her point blank at times. I also "see" the little girl inside her, who craves protection, affection, and validation. As a woman she needs the same things, but from a different perspective. 

It's such a fvcked up thing to go through, for anyone. I can only imagine it, as I never suffered it. But the stories I know, the details she remembers to this day (down to the pattern on the sheets, that kind of thing) and all the things she's had to deal with just to get back to "normal" have been very big, very difficult, and also, thankfully, very successful. 

I think it takes a lot of strength and also support from loved ones to overcome abuse. Those who say ditch her and find someone who fvcks haven't really thought about it. She's not doing this intentionally. She has things in her head that only she can deal with. She needs the endless love of a good, faithful man who she can learn to trust. 

Only recently, after knowing my W for seven years, has she said she would allow me to pick her up. Physically raise her off the floor. Because she'd been thrown against it so many times in her younger years (she's a tiny gal). There are other issues that remain to this day from various parts of her past, but I think she's remarkably strong, and resilient. I am proud of her. 

OP, I wish you and your wife success in this journey. From the posts I've read, you're both lucky. Hang in there, just give her the love of the good man that you are, and don't give up. It can be a long term problem, and already is. But you have 13 years with her, and you are the one she can lean on when she starts to fear the world. Don't lie down for anything she wants, but don't let her down when you are the one man she can count on.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

Seems everyone wants to use the affiar to down play the effects of the abuse. My wife list of things I can't do is long. I can't look at her nude, I can't compliment her looks and can't touch her. It comes and goes she is not like this all the time. We had very good sex last week or 2, this week has been bad. She been dealing with stuff from the past I triggered her the last time we had good sex because I told her how good she was in bed. It's sad last night she told me she can't remember how old she was when the abuse started. She says its all she can remember like she was born being abused. some of her first memories are being abused. This jerk had some kinda sick fantasy she told me when she turned 18 he thought she would leave with him and they would get married. She said it was like he was trying to condition her for being with him. She said she went threw a stage as a teen where she tought she was supposed to be with him.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ExactlyCheese Puff! There are times when she can hold it together and be normal and then there are the other times...

You mentioned you triggered her by telling her how good she was in bed. Okay, so it triggered her. Part of getting to normal is to learn those kinds of validating comments are good, right and healthy. This is something you two should discuss because as she gets through this, being validated in all ways a husband would validate a wife will be important to her and to you. 

Just last year I allowed my husband to hold my head during oral and guide me. Two weeks ago I encouraged him to get a little forceful with it. ten years ago if he had touched me at all while giving head I would have been ready to defend myself with violence! We worked from simple touching to touching my arms to brushing my hair away to gently holding my hair... 

Chasing normal can be fun!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> My W was seriously abused and raped as a youngster. Stepfather, boyfriends, that kind of thing. I have a thread on it already.
> 
> She has trust issues, and at work they used to figure she was either a man hater or a lesbian, because she wouldn't date guys from work.
> 
> ...


This was so god damned beautiful it brought tears to my eyes and I don't cry easily 

I wish I could just print this and show it to my husband.


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## marko (Jul 22, 2013)

I help teach a self defense course. cannot tell you what type sorry.it is very good and essentially retrains the brain in a fight or flight mode in a very short period of time. it can be emotional and intense at times. anyways, there are things that come out in the emotions sometimes that I think these poor women have been holding back for many years.it usually ends up with all the class in a group hug and crying, me included. 

sometimes there are triggers set off by something I say(I am the "bad guy" in the class) sometimes it might be the way I grab them or touch them. 

I have self studied abnormal psychology and criminal behavior in my life. Learn how to think like the "bad guy" so to speak, always been my type of thing to learn how to profile criminals, and this was way before the shows started to highlight it.

through my experience in the classes and in real life with the assorted female friends and co-workers that have confided in me, I could safely estimate that 25-30% of females have been molested or sexually assaulted in their youth. pretty disgusting stats. 

my wife was molested by her uncle, she confided this in me before we had sex for the first time. she warned me there might be issues, I was her first lover......not counting the a$$hole of course. there has been times that I did say or do something or touched her a certain way that triggered her but we worked through it. 

her father passed away years ago and her uncle was there, I knew he was coming. I wondered what I would do or say to him if I had the chance. at the funeral I seen him and changed my mind on any type of hurtful act. He was introduced to me, he was now a frail old shell of a man. I knew he would not be around long. 

I shook his hand, held it tight , perhaps tighter than I should have and introduced myself as her husband, and made sure he looked me in the eyes. I can be an imposing figure, and with my look I made darn sure he realized I knew what happened. after I released my hold he made his way away from us and kept his distance from my wife, and myself. 


I know it can be a tough battle even if everybody is willing to try, I cannot imagine how hard it would be if one or both were not interested in changing things. 

to all the ladies, I am sorry there are a$$holes like this in the world that put you through this, if I could I would teach every single one of them a lesson. 

good luck.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

Btw for those that keep brining up the affair. It happened 5or6 years ago. We went to MC and I went to IC which did me no good. I could not get over the affair and my wife was left wandering why she had a affair. I met a very special lady 2 years ago online that guided us through dealing my wife's abuse and how it led to her affair. My wife's abuser used the same words and touch a husband uses. The different is my touch and words are how I express my feeling of love and desire. The abuser used those word to control her and make it feel as if it was her fault. Wife began to associate me with the abuser and felt as if I was controlling her. My wife was going down a long and hard path. New men did not give her the feeling they where controlling her until they had sex. Then she was back to the same feeling "men just tell me I look good so they can get sex and I can't turn them down". Sex with anyone for her was unfulfilling, she could not understand why she wanted sex but it was painful and set off emotions she could not handle. In a way the affair was good for our marriage it sent me on search for answer why she had a affair. While I was searching for a answer I started to unravel the effects of the abuse.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cheese, not everyone can see shades of grey. There are many bitter and angry people here who can only see in black and white. Nothing you can say will alter their inability to see grey.

I'm sure it was a very painful time for you, trying to understand what your wife had done and gain meaning for how this might affect your relationship. Good job on seeking appropriate help, because not every therapist is going to be a good fit, and working through it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Cheese, it is all inter-related. Like you, I tend to blame the abuse as a root cause. Her brain was permanently altered by the events and the aftermath.

Interestingly, csa is one of the top 3 correlations with infidelity, along with a previous history of infidelity and a 3rd thing which I have forgotten. Some csa survivors act out (promiscuity as a teen, unruly behavior, etc), whereas others act in (cutting, drinking, eating disorders, prudishness, etc). Those who act out seem to be at measurably higher risk of being a cheater in the marriage than women who were not sexually abused.

The CSA victim has a lot of confusion. I am not surprised to read the things you wrote.

It is a tough place to be as a Secondary. You love the woman, and you have such deep sorrow for the child. Yet she is inflicting such pain on you. Even though not intentional and not of her original cause, it is still painful for you.

I don't blame a husband for not being able to cope with it or even for having to end the marriage. I don't think you should beat yourself up for your emotions around all of this.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

Some times I could scream. My wife has been so nice seemed in the mood all week.she has been leading me own half the week. She cooked me such a great meal tonight I worked to get the kids asleep. The moment sex could happen she curls up in a fetal position and will not talk or anything. So sad she tries but just can't shake her pass. She will not talk or anything. Im Upset and say things that just make it worst. So frustrating I told her, her abuser may control her sex life but he is not going to control mine.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh cheese, I'm so sorry. I have done the exact EXACT same thing MANY times. In fact this thread kinda threw me for a loop and I am 2 days behind on a promised BJ, more on that later.

She was feeling strong and made a decision to push herself. She built expectations, then anxiety kicked in. Once the anxiety hit, she couldn't shake it. Then guilt kicked in because she knows she's disappointed you.

back to that BJ my pinks been waiting for. had stuff floating threw my head past few days. In order to communicate, and not build guilt/shame, I tell him twice a day, I know I owe you one, I promise it's coming... He says okay and that's that.

I wish he would say something more. I wish he would kiss me and tell me he understands. I wish he would tell me he trusts I won't let him down....


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

cheese puff said:


> Some times I could scream. My wife has been so nice seemed in the mood all week.she has been leading me own half the week. She cooked me such a great meal tonight I worked to get the kids asleep. The moment sex could happen she curls up in a fetal position and will not talk or anything. So sad she tries but just can't shake her pass. She will not talk or anything. Im Upset and say things that just make it worst. So frustrating I told her, her abuser may control her sex life but he is not going to control mine.


I really feel for you even after the affair and now all this. The day may come when you reflect and say to yourself you have done all you can-you can't fix her-and you will have to end this for your own well being. SIGH, you have put in the effort and done all you could. You do not have to suffer with her. I'm so sorry she should be so lucky to have a guy like you but her issues ugh...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> back to that BJ my pinks been waiting for. had stuff floating threw my head past few days. In order to communicate, and not build guilt/shame, I tell him twice a day, I know I owe you one, I promise it's coming... He says okay and that's that.
> 
> I wish he would say something more. I wish he would kiss me and tell me he understands. I wish he would tell me he trusts I won't let him down....


I am bothered by this a bit. I don't think you owe him anything. If you want to do something for him, fine. If you don't, fine. 

I would be far more worried about my wife's anguish ramping up than not getting the bj from her. I would wonder why is her anxiety pumped up, and what could be done to reduce it again.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I lost a bet...Dont play if you can't pay.

I think he knows partly. We had a really good talk the other night. Correction, I communicated what I needed him to hear and felt that he listened. I don't remember if he said anything or not. 

Probably not.

We don't really discuss those times. He used to badger me, although it was probably normal questions any husband would want to know, and I kind of went into a rage. It felt like he was attacking me, insisting on more info all the details! No, you don't get to ask that! I think I threw some stuff at him and left the house. So now he doesn't ask and waits for me to bring it up. Trust!.... Again!

See, I've shut him down but he isn't even trying to figure it out. Right now I'm doing okay but when those moods hit, I really need HIM to figure it out ...at least try?


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

tom67 said:


> I really feel for you even after the affair and now all this. The day may come when you reflect and say to yourself you have done all you can-you can't fix her-and you will have to end this for your own well being. SIGH, you have put in the effort and done all you could. You do not have to suffer with her. I'm so sorry she should be so lucky to have a guy like you but her issues ugh...


Not throwing in the towel just yet. She has shown me light at the end of the tunnel a few times. We are 200 times better than we where before. She had never had a orgasm until 2 years ago. So we have made progress. She can orgasm with clit stimulation during sex. This is something I thought would never happen. She is a squirter, my luck i will learn that squirting comes from the abuse lol. She can orgasm if the flashback don't hit her. She gets off about every other time we have sex. That was a huge step for us. Lately she is having multiple orgasms but then feel guilty after enjoying sex. I will have to say sexual abuser should not die but live a slow and painful life for the hell they put the families like me threw. This has effect me and my kids. Effects the kids when she gets triggered she shows them no emotion either.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

also wanted to add im not giving up on this because we talk. ive read threw the post LD HD and sexless marriage. alot of the LD spouse seem to have given up trying to like sex again and dont communicate with the HD partner. My Wife knows she has a problem and would love to get passed this but its taking alot of time. Im not a HD person myself. i like sex once a week or when we get time for sex because the kids take up alot of our time. not saying if she wanted everyday i would not happily give it to her.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I wish people would respect your decision to reconcile and work through this. There is light at the end of the tunnel.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

How was your marriage out side the bedroom.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

my wife has never brought up her abuse. not one time has she told me she does this or that because she was abused. I would never known she was abused if I had not caught her being abused "read some of my old post". it is not until we started relearning touch and I put her in situation that brought back flash backs of the abuse did she talk about it. we have both been reading books together at night before bed, she can now describe the abuse or relate to a victim talking about abuse. controlling me don't think so. tonight was great no sex but a huge milestone for us. our counselor ask that we start giving one another massages with lotions that she enjoys the smell of. the counselor ask me to observe the way wife acts during and after massage. counselor told me, never told the wife, if she was have flashbacks of the abuse she would not talk and rush me during the massage and afterward she would jump up run straight to the shower. wife would do this every time rush me and then jump up to shower. rushing is from feeling controlled, shower would be to wash away the yucky feeling of touch. tonight we talked the entire time, she smiled told me she enjoyed it felt so relaxed and went to bed no shower. huge step for her so happy. once she gets use to getting a massage she has to start giving a massage. it will be a struggle but I look forward to it. also the therapist me today that my wife is putting a lot of effort in to healing. it would be bad idea for me to leave someone who is willing to work on this. therapist said #1 sign of abuse is washing after touch. she said kids that are abuse will wash there hands 1000 times a day.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

cheese puff said:


> my wife has never brought up her abuse. not one time has she told me she does this or that because she was abused. I would never known she was abused if I had not caught her being abused "read some of my old post". it is not until we started relearning touch and I put her in situation that brought back flash backs of the abuse did she talk about it. we have both been reading books together at night before bed, she can now describe the abuse or relate to a victim talking about abuse. controlling me don't think so. tonight was great no sex but a huge milestone for us. our counselor ask that we start giving one another massages with lotions that she enjoys the smell of. the counselor ask me to observe the way wife acts during and after massage. counselor told me, never told the wife, if she was have flashbacks of the abuse she would not talk and rush me during the massage and afterward she would jump up run straight to the shower. wife would do this every time rush me and then jump up to shower. rushing is from feeling controlled, shower would be to wash away the yucky feeling of touch. tonight we talked the entire time, she smiled told me she enjoyed it felt so relaxed and went to bed no shower. huge step for her so happy. once she gets use to getting a massage she has to start giving a massage. it will be a struggle but I look forward to it. also the therapist me today that my wife is putting a lot of effort in to healing. it would be bad idea for me to leave someone who is willing to work on this. therapist said #1 sign of abuse is washing after touch. she said kids that are abuse will wash there hands 1000 times a day.



Your wife is working therapy, you both are working together and that is perfect! Everything you wrote above is where I was 12 years ago. The thing about healing is, once you get over a few hurdles, you learn HOW to get over the hurdles and healing goes that much faster. It's slow in the beginning, frustrating, and it is SCARY! 

I think your wife is doing great and I think she is a lucky woman to have you supporting her.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

one of my biggest hurdles is not getting so turned on by the exercises for relearning touch. some of the exercises we have to lay nude and touch body parts. our therapist and the books note that we must complete the touching with out sex. this is teaching me self control and my wife that I can control my body. from what I understand women who are abused think a man can not control himself once he get turned on.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Well also she is relearning touch. As babies we learn that all touch is soothing, except when smearing sunblock on babies face! Oh they hate that! From babies to young children, we learn the names of body parts, then that body parts can be private and when we are in our teens we learn that sharing those private body parts feels very good. Unless molestation has taken place. Then the good feeling gets mixed in with shame, guilt, fear and pain.

Dont worry about how your body responds. Your body's response is right and natural, the way any husband responds to his wife's touch. You only have to follow the rules that make her feel safe and build her trust. She will do the rest.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

counseler ask that we start scheduling sex. last night was one of the nights we have sex. sex was ok i wish she would have been more into it, after sex was great. normally as soon as i get done she jumps up, takes a shower and will not talk to me the rest of the night. last night after sex we cuddled and talked for 3 hrs. im tired today but was worth every second of it. this is why i dont stop i dont give up.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Cheese Puff, I certainly don't have any advice, but just want to tell you how much I admire you for working through this horrible tragedy with your wife. It's obvious that you love her very much and she you. Best wishes for you and your wife.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

cheese puff said:


> counseler ask that we start scheduling sex. last night was one of the nights we have sex. sex was ok i wish she would have been more into it, after sex was great. normally as soon as i get done she jumps up, takes a shower and will not talk to me the rest of the night. last night after sex we cuddled and talked for 3 hrs. im tired today but was worth every second of it. this is why i dont stop i dont give up.



LOVE this!


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

Then there is tonight she is had a attitude all evening want let me get close to her.


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## MTS (Aug 21, 2013)

cheese puff said:


> My wife was abused as a child. she hates sex, touch or anything that can lead to sex. she has sexual fantasy I can't fulfill. I'm at the point I want out of the marriage, but I feel like if I could get her help i could turn this around. Need some kind of advice going crazy. We have been married 13 years and I can't see life with out her, But I would like to have a quality sex life. I have talked to her about it until I just don't want to talk about it anymore. She seems to not want help and I'm getting depressed from thinking about it all the time.


Did you know about the sex going into this? Was the sex life normal before marriage? Counselling might work and might be worth a try. I mean a trained psychiatrist.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Cheesepuff - I don't have your wife's issues that I'm dealing with. However I have been in therapy since May for sexual issues and have been doing a lot of the relearning touch stuff in a less structured way.

Every single time I have taken a step forward or have had some victory it has been followed by several days of emotional backtracking. I am not sure why this happens - it seems to take a good 3-4 days to return to the progress point. Perhaps this same thing is happening with your wife. Sounds like you are making good progress though!


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> Cheesepuff - I don't have your wife's issues that I'm dealing with. However I have been in therapy since May for sexual issues and have been doing a lot of the relearning touch stuff in a less structured way.
> 
> Every single time I have taken a step forward or have had some victory it has been followed by several days of emotional backtracking. I am not sure why this happens - it seems to take a good 3-4 days to return to the progress point. Perhaps this same thing is happening with your wife. Sounds like you are making good progress though!


our therapist has told us this will happen as she works on things. i have to not let it bother me. she seemed better today when i left for work she gave me hug, long kiss and told me she loved me. i read that a women feels the emotion more physically than men do. that maybe why she has days after progress that she feels tired and drained.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

She's processing out the old and trying to cement in the new. Two steps forward one step backward.

Be careful of all the egg shells...you two are breaking them all over the place! Bravo!


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

been doing alot of listen and talking. things are 10x better. i hope we can keep this up.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

still making progress. wife is talking more and dealing with issues she had packed away for years. We dealt with a problem that had plagued our marriage. i could never do anything as goods as someone else did. i own my own business where i engineer parts and manufacture tooling for production machinery. I am very proud of what i do, on the other hand my wife will put me down about this stuff. To me this was worst than the affair or the sex. i talked to our counselor about it a few weeks ago. she ask that the next time the wife started this with me, i should ask the wife if the remarks are from the short coming of her father in her life or the way she feels about herself from the abuse. i got to ask her this friday, i had worked weeks on a project that paid very well and i was very proud of the work i had done. she started putting me down almost instantly, so i ask her. she got so pissed at me she went to bed curled up in a fetal position and would not talk to me. the next day sucked she was angry and the holiday was no better. tuesday at work i was beating myself up asking why do i ask this stuff if its only going to piss her off. so yesterday after work i was met with a nice hug and long sexual kiss as soon as i walked in the door. i wanted to get it on there but our kids where at home. i went out and mowed the lawn. my wife came out as i was putting my tools up, she told me something that almost made me cry. she said to me you know your the only honest man or male figure thats ever been in my life and some times i find your weird or odd because of that. she said she has never been around a guy who tries so hard to keep his family together and deal with problems. she wants things to get better. our counselor ask that we start planning our days off and sex,because when a child grows up in a abusive home there most of the time no structure and thing are done kinda spontaneous. i had been the one planning our weekends and time together, she has started putting things she wanted to do down and even put in some sex days for us. i keep trying and things keep getting better.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

cheese puff said:


> still making progress. wife is talking more and dealing with issues she had packed away for years. We dealt with a problem that had plagued our marriage. i could never do anything as goods as someone else did. i own my own business where i engineer parts and manufacture tooling for production machinery. I am very proud of what i do, on the other hand my wife will put me down about this stuff. To me this was worst than the affair or the sex. i talked to our counselor about it a few weeks ago. she ask that the next time the wife started this with me, i should ask the wife if the remarks are from the short coming of her father in her life or the way she feels about herself from the abuse. i got to ask her this friday, i had worked weeks on a project that paid very well and i was very proud of the work i had done. she started putting me down almost instantly, so i ask her. she got so pissed at me she went to bed curled up in a fetal position and would not talk to me. the next day sucked she was angry and the holiday was no better. tuesday at work i was beating myself up asking why do i ask this stuff if its only going to piss her off. so yesterday after work i was met with a nice hug and long sexual kiss as soon as i walked in the door. i wanted to get it on there but our kids where at home. i went out and mowed the lawn. my wife came out as i was putting my tools up, she told me something that almost made me cry. she said to me you know your the only honest man or male figure thats ever been in my life and some times i find your weird or odd because of that. she said she has never been around a guy who tries so hard to keep his family together and deal with problems. she wants things to get better. our counselor ask that we start planning our days off and sex,because when a child grows up in a abusive home there most of the time no structure and thing are done kinda spontaneous. i had been the one planning our weekends and time together, she has started putting things she wanted to do down and even put in some sex days for us. i keep trying and things keep getting better.



Thats fantastic.

You described your wife picking at you, a sore spot that you called her out on. Then she pouted a few days and during that time you beat yourself up wondering if you went too far, feeling like her reaction was dragging you down, shaking the foundation...

I have done this to my husband too, though not nearly as often anymore and nothing that shakes his foundation-but was guilty of this many years ago. What I hope you can hold on to, should this happen again, is that while she is sulking, angry, pulling away, is that she IS thinking about what she said that hurt you. She IS trying to fit normalcy into shattered thinking. She IS working through it. Standing up for yourself is always the right thing to do, no matter how she reacts. How she reacts is fully and completely on her and in time she will be able to spot her shattered thinking sooner, then she will be able to spot it immediately and apologize immediately. Then she will be able to prevent herself from saying it and thinking it. Always stand up for yourself and never own her responses.

Damn I'm jealous she has such a great partner in you. How much easier healing would have been for me if I could have shared these things back when it was happening. My fault though...


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

i talk to a lady over the phone who helps me out a lot she was a abuse victim herself, she has to keep reminding me to let my wife own her reactions. i struggle with that because i want to fix stuff so bad.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

cheese puff said:


> i talk to a lady over the phone who helps me out a lot she was a abuse victim herself, she has to keep reminding me to let my wife own her reactions. i struggle with that because i want to fix stuff so bad.


I hear you on this. But you are aware so you now have the tools to cope with your wife's behavior as she processes a new way of thinking and behaving.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

cheese puff said:


> i talked to our counselor about it a few weeks ago. she ask that the next time the wife started this with me, i should ask the wife if the remarks are from the short coming of her father in her life or the way she feels about herself from the abuse.


You've got a very good counselor it seems. This is why therapy is so important to overcome traumas. I certainly would not think to say something like that all on my own to my wife! Unfortunately many abuse victims fear the recovery process and, like my wife, refuse to participate meaningfully in therapy of any sort.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thor, your wife is therapy averse? She's okay with hiding all the time? You must have very coordinated feet to avoid the egg shells.

Has she read the books for healing? maybe to read a book might help bring her to a point where therapy might not be so scary?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Anon, she refuses to discuss anything about it with me and refuses therapy. She refused mc several times but then attended 2 sessions without any effort. The topic is taboo. She chewed me out for reading books about csa and about marriage improvement. She is scared to deal with it, saying she can keep it bottled up sufficiently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> Anon, she refuses to discuss anything about it with me and refuses therapy. She refused mc several times but then attended 2 sessions without any effort. The topic is taboo. She chewed me out for reading books about csa and about marriage improvement. She is scared to deal with it, saying she can keep it bottled up sufficiently.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh my. 

It can't be forced, it can't be insisted upon. Those walls and gates are pretty damn strong and only crumble from the inside out, not the other way around.

Are you enabling?

You don't have to answer that. We all move at our own pace and what works for some doesn't work for everyone.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

My wife refused it also. It has taken me many failed attempts to get where we are today. I started observing my wife's actions, when she was in very talkative moods and what made her get in that mood. I then would slip little healing stuff in the conversation. for my wife going to hair salon will put her in the talkative mode. I would buy her gift cards and even go with her, because i new on the way home the wife would talk my ear off. It is the most boring thing on earth to me but I do it. I then would ask if we could go to a nice restaurant on the way home. if i ask her to go out for diner with out the salon she never talked. she would go to the salon about once month for nails ,hair or what ever they do there. Making sure we went out for dinner ever time. After a few months dinner at place we ate at coming home from the salon got her in a happy mood, with out going to the salon. I then started adding in trips to the park or what ever I wanted to enjoy doing together. This was a 2 year process. I had to rebuild our marriage after the affair myself wife wanted rug sweep it. Slowly she would talk about our marriage and getting past the affair. Now she gets talking from walking or eating at our home, but I slowly had to relate things to the mood I call it. Btw wife told me yesterday she enjoys sex some times. She has always said she hates sex and found it odd people enjoy it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Oh my.
> 
> It can't be forced, it can't be insisted upon. Those walls and gates are pretty damn strong and only crumble from the inside out, not the other way around.
> 
> ...


I don't think I am enabling now. I didn't set boundaries or stand up for myself for many years when I did not know of her abuse. In a way I did enable by not holding her responsible all those years for her absense from the relationship. Everything could have been different for both of us had I known.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

my wife would try every way she could to not talk about problems in our marriage. we are now just getting started on sexual healing stuff. my wifes biggest problem is dysfunctional men seem normal to her, like all men should be that way. she use to think that i was weak or kinda femanon i guess you could say. i had to show her it take a much stronger guy and a lot of self control to be a real man. this was hard to do my wife grew up with out grandfathers, uncles or dad, then her step father abused her.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My wife suffered a lot of abuse as well. It really infuriates me, and I want to tie anyone who caused her trauma to a post in the basesment and treat them like the dog-demons they are. 

However... She also had a lot of therapy in her 20s, and that helped her a lot. She has a healthy attitude towards sex, although not really a healthy attitude towards men. She likes tall guys (I'm 6'6"), and she's just under 5 feet tall, so I think there's security in that for her. 

To me, she's beautiful. I "see" her inner child, and feel so bad for that inner child, who suffered a lot. And as we've been together, over the years, a few more things will come out, and I will help her talk about them. She's at least open to that. I've identified some of her coping mechanisms, as a child and as a woman, and try to help her without her "feeling" helped (depending on her mood). 

It's a complex trail to follow, but it sounds like you love your wife, she loves you, and is slowly starting to unfold. There may always be creases, but as long as she unfolds to you, you will always be her safe place. Just make sure you always ARE, because her inner child will be suspicious of anything you do, for a long time, because of her past (not because of you necessarily). 

God bless you and keep you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Doubletrouble said:


> Just make sure you always ARE, because her inner child will be suspicious of anything you do, for a long time, because of her past (not because of you necessarily).


So very very true! Intellectually, I know my husband loves me and I know he finds me attractive. That he doesn't say it except when I remind him I need to hear it, makes me suspect a lot of nefarious things, each as believable to me as what I assume to be the truth, that he feels these things but can't communicate them to me. It still hurts and hurt, for me, brings out anger. I can't just let the hurt be hurt, which would be more an honest emotion than anger.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

Update wife now says sex does not bother her,she does not hate intercourse or receiving oral. She now says she hates kissing part of sex. Trying to figure out how to change that. today we had some very good oral sex. Btw we are having sex ever chance we get but with small children that is not but a few times a week. I tell my wife our kids have some kinda sex radar, seems every time we get started one of them will have bad dream or something.

Communications is the best advice I can give anyone with marriage problems. There are times when my wife acts like she does not care what I'm saying but she is listening. There has been countless time in our marriage, I calmly have to tell my wife what I think and i dont get a response. I know she listening because of the positive changes she makes.


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