# The Life of a spy...day 127



## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

This post is about the fact that I have been spying on my wife (for good reason), and what it has done for me....and to me. A lot of this is in other posts but figured I would consolidate to get opinions and views from others.

Long story short, been together for 10, married for 3. Thought and still think my wife is my best friend and soulmate, though our sex life has always been very mundane (6-10 times a year). It has been like this since year 4 or so, so I always just figured this was the way we would be or the way she was with LD. She comes out of nowhere and says she isnt happy with our relationship and lack of intimacy back in July, and right about this time I noticed she changed her email password. HUGE red flag, bc she used to always leave her email up. This is what started it all, so of course I feel she is emailing someone and doesnt want me to know. First I will list what I have found to date, and what I currently am doing. 

Find #1 - So I did find out that she started emailing her ex boyfriend (she changed her gmail password but didnt pw her phone!). They hadnt talked in 5 years and over the last few months, the course of emails has been fairly innocent, really just apologizing to him for leaving him for me (it was during one of our breaks), and just wishing him well yadda yadda. She never once mentioned our marriage, being unhappy, or wanting to meet up. He did pull the old 'well if you want to have dinner and catch up we can do that' bit, but she never took that bait. I think they have stopped emailing as of Sept 18th, but I could be wrong, as I havent checked her email since about Sept 30th. More on this later.

Find #2 - So as I started to see that her emails were pretty harmless with this guy, I started sifting through her texts. So far, she has not texted any other guys about anything, nor has she called any guys about anything....she mainly talks to her girlfriends. The only texts that I have found that have really really bothered me, are the ones where she is having girl talk and bashing me to her single friends (all her single friends are ****ty and single and sleep around), and I did find one text where when we were at a wedding together, she was flirting with the bartender (something she never does), and texted her friend that the bartender at this wedding was "f'ing hot". More on this in Find #3. 

Find #3. The next day we drove home from the wedding, I did comb through her internet history and found that when we got home, she did try and search for that bartender on Facebook. I dont think she would have done anything, and maybe she was just searching to show her friends how hot he was, but still, I didnt like seeing that the first thing she does when we get home is search for him, albiet she spent less than 2 minutes on the task. 


My conclusions. Even though she has exhibited MANY signs of cheating...changing email and phone pws, interest in new music, buying new clothes...I havent found any evidence of a pending physical affair. Really all my spying has done, has given me insights into her every thought (not sure if this is good or bad), and really drive me crazy. 


I have now scaled back my spying because I was going insane. I would check her phone (I saw her type in her phone pw), at every chance I got. I was thinking about it all the time, and would get super angry if I saw some text to her girlfriend talkin some girl talk about another hot guy or something I did wrong. Since I pay the phone bill, I have now just scaled back my spying to checking the phone/text bill and the browser history. I feel that knowing her every thought or typed word was really getting to me, and often thought to myself that if she knew what I typed to my male friends and took it out of context she would prob be very pissed as well. 

So now its October, 4 months into my spying. She has no clue I know about any of this. Why not say something you ask? Because I can only play that card once. Until I find evidence of cheating, I dont want to cut off my intel sources. I assume that if a PA was going to start, she would start to text/call the guy,which I have seen zero evidence of so far. I was getting tired of putting on a facade, knowing that she called some other guy hot or talked mad sh!t to her friend about me, but then pretending that I didnt know. I actually think me pretending, was subconsciously ruining our relationship because she could pick up that something was wrong, but obviously I couldnt tell her what. 


My questions are: How many other spies are out there that have followed a similar path? Obviously I dont want to know nothing and just sit around and wait for something to happen, but knowing her every thought, text, and email was just really getting to me, so I assume checking the phone bill and browser history should suffice (her FB always stays up and I havent found anything on there either).

At what point have others found that spying isnt worth it? Literally I think if a PA hit me out of nowhere like a brick wall one day, that would have hurt more in that instant, but less overall than the slow seeping death of spying for months. It has consumed my life, and I have to suffer in silence...and havent found really anything to confront her about. 

Am I taking the right approach by scaling back my spying since I havent really found any evidence of her talking to another guy except her ex (which I feel has stopped)? Or do people think its important that I know what she says to her girlfriends? Half of what she says to her gfs I feel is just her trying to fit in and not how she 'really' feels but who knows. 

We havent had sex since July, but we are 'working' on things. We have also since moved to Austin (planned way before all of this), so I highly doubt she is getting it on the side, but I guess you never know. Im tired of spying, but feel its necessary....thoughts?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I understand you're frustrated and want to get to the bottom of things. I also understand "spying" when one feels something is off but has no concrete proof. 

This is what you really need to be concentrating on. You already know something is off, there is no trust, because she is doing some sneaky things and you are kind of being the same way to find out whats going on. Trying to check up on someone can be exhausting. 

As far as "scaling back on the spying" IMO I think you should stop altogether. You have been doing this for months now, it not good for you or healthy really. Sometimes you can get answers, and sometimes it can create more doubt, and drive you crazy. 

What you may need to do is, sit down with your wife and talk to her. Its time to let her know there are some things you know about. Tell her, you don't know if shes cheated but something is off in the marriage, and you would like to try and salvage the marriage. Tell her you hope shes on board with you, and tell her if not, then you will need to choose a different path as far as figuring out what needs to be done. 

Tell her shes owes it to to the marriage to not flirt and send out emails to other men. YOU owe it to your marriage to not feel the need to spy. Let her know you don not want to live with this way. Also ask yourself, if you were to find out for sure things have gone further than you expected, and lets say she actually has cheated, whats your plan from there anyway?


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Well that is basically what it has come down to. All this spying has done has really made MY life miserable since she has no clue. I dont feel I should know her every thought and it is giving me trust issues. If she wears make up a certain way or something like that, now I instantly get skeptic, when I didnt before. The problem is that I cant really sit her down and tell her I know anything, because she will go on the offensive and then say I invaded her privacy and we now have a much bigger problem. 


If I caught her cheating it would instantly be over. No question about it. I wouldnt be able to get over it at all. Im not a jealous person, and honestly if she told me that she was going to email her ex or even have dinner with him, I wouldnt care. Its the fact that she hides it from me that worries me and makes me not trust her.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Also you are right...the end product (so far) of all this spying, is my huge lack of trust in her. That lack of trust is seeping into our daily lives which is causing more problems. So it seems that I am trading my intel at the expense of my sanity, which is affecting my daily interaction with her. I bet she feels something is off with me but has no idea what. Its almost like my spying, even though Im not finding anything YET, is slowly ruining things....but is that better or worse then not knowing if an affair is coming?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Spying is OK at first when you suspect... once it shows nothing stop and trust your spouse. Work on yourself not on your wife.

You work on yourself she may notice.

I Know I was here too... you want answers why things are off. I was amazed at key times when I absolutely thought she was cheating on me she wasn't more of a mis-reading of boundaries.

Work on you as that's all you control and trust your spouse.
If things don't change... TALK... if things don't change TALK and set an ultimatum.

You've done due diligence now move on. Have a plan.
Your wife has a plan if you fail. She realizes thing may not work out her feelings are confused... shes waiting on you
to change her mind.

1. Look in the mirror... would you love you?
2. Learn everything you can about women's needs... become an expert.

Its all a mid-life re-assessment of her choice in life. A re-assessment of YOU.

More later.
T2


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

People don't usually change their ways or their behavior unless they are held accountable for their actions.... Your wife is not being held accountable, and part of the problem is, by you not letting her know some of the things you have found out... By you spying and not telling her, it just keeps things going .... You say she will go on the defensive if she knows what you were doing, well to bad!.... Sometimes people need to be called out on what they are doing in order to see if anything changes. 

Even if you didn't want to come right out and let her know what you had been doing, you still need to let her know you're not happy with things, and feel the marriage is in a bad spot right now...I think there needs to be some boundaries in place..you have a right to expect certain things in your marriage...One is you should tell her..its unacceptable to flirt because it bothers you and is disrespectful..another is, she might want to look at getting some new friends..some that are a better influence...and emailing or flirting with exs or men she thinks are hot, are whatever the case is, is also unacceptable behavior....

If you do NOT tell her how you feel and let her know you know some stuff or things you see going on...then it will likely continue and nothing will get resolved...are you more worried about her reacting to you spying, or more worried about losing your marriage because you wont speak up?


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Mr Pink said:


> This post is about the fact that I have been spying on my wife (for good reason), and what it has done for me....and to me. A lot of this is in other posts but figured I would consolidate to get opinions and views from others.
> 
> Long story short, been together for 10, married for 3. Thought and still think my wife is my best friend and soulmate, though our sex life has always been very mundane (6-10 times a year). It has been like this since year 4 or so, so I always just figured this was the way we would be or the way she was with LD. She comes out of nowhere and says she isnt happy with our relationship and lack of intimacy back in July, and right about this time I noticed she changed her email password. HUGE red flag, bc she used to always leave her email up. This is what started it all, so of course I feel she is emailing someone and doesnt want me to know. First I will list what I have found to date, and what I currently am doing.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are taking the right approach in my opinion. I've also spend countless hours pouring over his email and Facebook accounts, weighing every post, every email. Reading stuff into things others have posted to him and him them. It's a waste of time and does nothing but make me more paranoid. That is how I feel about it anyway. Time better spent working on myself...


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

CallaLily said:


> People don't usually change their ways or their behavior unless they are held accountable for their actions.... Your wife is not being held accountable, and part of the problem is, by you not letting her know some of the things you have found out... By you spying and not telling her, it just keeps things going .... You say she will go on the defensive if she knows what you were doing, well to bad!.... Sometimes people need to be called out on what they are doing in order to see if anything changes.
> 
> Even if you didn't want to come right out and let her know what you had been doing, you still need to let her know you're not happy with things, and feel the marriage is in a bad spot right now...I think there needs to be some boundaries in place..you have a right to expect certain things in your marriage...One is you should tell her..its unacceptable to flirt because it bothers you and is disrespectful..another is, she might want to look at getting some new friends..some that are a better influence...and emailing or flirting with exs or men she thinks are hot, are whatever the case is, is also unacceptable behavior....
> 
> If you do NOT tell her how you feel and let her know you know some stuff or things you see going on...then it will likely continue and nothing will get resolved...are you more worried about her reacting to you spying, or more worried about losing your marriage because you wont speak up?


I do see what you are saying but this is my view. Is that I am 100% willing to speak up and say what I need to say, WHEN I finding something concrete. I dont want to say it before hand because I dont think me saying it bothers me will make her stop her actual behavior (I assume she already knows flirting and emailing exs would make me upset, hence why she changed her pw), so me saying something only tips her off that I know, but her behavior wont necessarily change. I have literally been waiting for the smoking gun then I was going to march in there and end the marriage, but it just never came. Atleast yet. It seems her receptors are open to other options, but that may be a bi product of our marriage on the rocks, not necessarily her 'looking'. So I get what you are saying, but I can only play that card once and want to when something concrete happens.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

DayDream said:


> Yes, you are taking the right approach in my opinion. I've also spend countless hours pouring over his email and Facebook accounts, weighing every post, every email. Reading stuff into things others have posted to him and him them. It's a waste of time and does nothing but make me more paranoid. That is how I feel about it anyway. Time better spent working on myself...


Yup, this is basically where Im at. I found just enough in the beginning to set me off on this downward spiral, thinking more would come but it never has. Now I read (or mis-read) into her every move and it really is effecting my life in a bad way. I guess its the same as knowing the date of your death or having it just happen to you. Would any of us be better off with the knowledge that our death was coming? Or is it better to live your life until that moment hits?


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Mr Pink said:


> but I can only play that card once and want to when something concrete happens.


No you don't have to wait and play that card when you find something concrete. Damage is being done now. What if "concrete" never comes? Spying or even backing off on spying and not saying anything to her about what you know so far, is like you're just hoping you find something concrete so you can drop the ball.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Its hard to explain, but I almost feel that now isnt the right time to drop the hammer. My end goal is I want our marriage to work. If that means that I keep my mouth shut and we work on things slowly over time then thats what Ill do. I have envisioned a day where we are both in MC somewhere and we spill our secrets and maybe then in a controlled environment, when she is receptive to fixing us, I can say I knew about this 'the whole time'. I just feel that things are so fragile and toxic now, that if I said something, it would basically be the end of us, which is not what I want, especially since she hasnt really done anything yet.


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## Gunthar (Sep 2, 2012)

Agree with many of the posters here......early on spying helped me understand what my wife was thinking.....got into her brain as she would not tell me everything.

Continued spying has caused me to change my behavior to her as I would scrutinize many details trying to read into it. She noticed I was different and even called me out on it sometimes.....not good.

For this reason I have completely scaled back on the spying. Only when starts acting a bit strange or out of the ordinary will I do a quick check.......focus more on myself and be happier.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Gunthar said:


> Agree with many of the posters here......early on spying helped me understand what my wife was thinking.....got into her brain as she would not tell me everything.
> 
> Continued spying has caused me to change my behavior to her as no I will scrutinize many details trying to read into it. She noticed I was different and even called me out on it sometimes.....not good.
> 
> For this reason I have completely scaled back on the spying. Only when starts acting a bit strange or out of the ordinary will I do a quick check.......focus more on myself and be happier.



I think this is what I am trying to do. I think finding her email her ex when I first started was enough to get me hooked, but not enough to have me say or do anything. It has slowly waned over time, but when I see her phone sitting there its like a crack addict trying to not give into an urge. Its tough. I mean she used to always leave her email up, now never does, but that could merely be a function that she is just now used to doing that or doesnt want me to search through older emails and find her emails with her ex. I am going to scale back to just checking the phone bill every now and then, but mainly work on me...its just really hard to ween off of spying.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

It seems almost like game playing. You know some things, you wont tell her you know. You keep things on the DL in case you find out something more, and in the meantime she still flirts, emails guys, hangs out with women who sleep around etc etc. 

This will not fix itself, and she will not likely come clean or stop anything until she knows you know. AND yes, even that is not a guarantee! But its better to take a chance at saving your marriage, than sitting back doing nothing and hopes that she stops what shes doing, that things will just resolve itself. 

Also, if you tell her the things you know and and the marriage ends anyway because she gets pissed, well guess what, there is your concrete answer. So maybe deep down you really don't want the concrete evidence and thats why you don't say anything. 

BTW, if she ends the marriage because she was pissed at what you were doing, well, you lost nothing because she was already gone in the marriage anyway.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Jamison said:


> It seems almost like game playing. You know some things, you wont tell her you know. You keep things on the DL in case you find out something more, and in the meantime she still flirts, emails guys, hangs out with women who sleep around etc etc.
> 
> This will not fix itself, and she will not likely come clean or stop anything until she knows you know. AND yes, even that is not a guarantee! But its better to take a chance at saving your marriage, than sitting back doing nothing and hopes that she stops what shes doing, that things will just resolve itself.
> 
> ...


Also a very good point


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Okay, enough of the spying. Now you know she's at least day dreaming about others. What are you doing to attract her towards you? Are you doing anything to improve the why she views you?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think spying can make you paranoid and if you take everything literally, you could get angry with things she is saying.

I think if you do it with the correct mind set, then you can use it to your advantage.

For example, if she complains you dress poorly, then get some new clothes. If she complains you never take her anywhere, surprise her with a night out.

Kind of like that movie with Mel Gibson ("What Women Want"). He could read women's minds and at first it just pissed him off. But then he learned how they were thinking and turned it around to make himself look better.

The biggest red flag I see is your sex life. Not having sex since July is a big issue. You need to step it up. Plan a holiday, a night out, something. Put some romance back into your relationship.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> Okay, enough of the spying. Now you know she's at least day dreaming about others. What are you doing to attract her towards you? Are you doing anything to improve the why she views you?


I have read MMSP and am trying to implement what is in that book....so far it is early and I have mixed results.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm actually in the minority here, because I don't advocate you stop spying completely. You really should stop spying when there's nothing to really worry about. But you have things to worry about in this situation. Maybe you can scale-back your efforts, but I would not stop.

Think of all this behavior like a young child experimenting with drugs. Maybe they start off with just a light "gateway drug" and increase the usage, over time develop habit, and ultimately moving on to harder drugs after the drug world has consumed them.

Your wife's behavior of talking poorly about you to toxic friends is bad, very bad. And your wife reaching out to her ex was her fishing for an affair with someone she already had a familiarity with. He must be somewhat of a comfort zone for her which made it easy for her to reach out for him and fish for something. These to me are "gateway drug" issues and compounded with the fact that you haven't had sex since July is just going to exacerbate these gateway issues to morph into "harder drugs" one day.

I've read about so many women on the cheater forums who's #1 gripe about cheating on their husbands is due to sex infrequency or lack of satisfaction sexually.

I do agree that the best fix to this situation is trying to work on yourself though. If you read up on the Married Man Sex Life ways, it will show you how to do self-improvement so you become a better, more attractive version of yourself. You wife would most likely respond to your improvements on her own over time... but you should work on self improvement for yourself first and foremost.

And if you do start working on self-improvement... keep spying to gauge whether it's having any effect on your wife. Maybe instead of talking poorly about you to her toxic friends she'll start dropping some positive comments about how you're changing yourself here and there.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I think spying can make you paranoid and if you take everything literally, you could get angry with things she is saying.
> 
> I think if you do it with the correct mind set, then you can use it to your advantage.
> 
> ...


Right...that is pretty much what I am doing...but some of the intel isnt actionable, like she says another guy is hot...not much I can do about that.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Mr Pink said:


> I have read MMSP and am trying to implement what is in that book....so far it is early and I have mixed results.


Oh good! Just keep at it then Mr. Pink. Trust me... it takes time to establish results from MMSL, but they will come in time. I've been running the MAP since January and I was also very impatient at first waiting to see results.... but now that I have some time invested and I look back with hindsight, I can see how things have progressed for me slowly over time with definite results.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Mr Pink said:


> I have read MMSP and am trying to implement what is in that book....so far it is early and I have mixed results.


No. don't try. Like the advert said 'Just Do It'. The results will come. It took awhile to get where you are, now it will take a while to get back. Read WillK's threads. 

Are you working on her EN's? How many hours a week are you spending together?


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Bottled Up said:


> I'm actually in the minority here, because I don't advocate you stop spying completely. You really should stop spying when there's nothing to really worry about. But you have things to worry about in this situation. Maybe you can scale-back your efforts, but I would not stop.
> 
> Think of all this behavior like a young child experimenting with drugs. Maybe they start off with just a light "gateway drug" and increase the usage, over time develop habit, and ultimately moving on to harder drugs after the drug world has consumed them.
> 
> ...


I do like the analogy of the gateway drug, as when I first started spying I thought that maybe if I caught it early, I could alter the course of the future or something and stop her from cheating, but then thought that if I had to stop her and her not stop herself, then she would prob do it again anyways sometime in the future. I did do a bit of cold war tactics...her main friend ****** is this girl that constantly tells my wife to cheat on me because she is one of those girls who always has many boyfriends and she totally isnt on my side. I messaged her on facebook, saying that I was planning a big surprise birthday party for my wife and that I would like her to come down and if she needed help with the plane ticket I would split it with her. I assume she either told my wife of the surprise, which will hopefully make my wife happy, or she wont tell my wife of the surprise, and maybe starting talking better about me.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Mr Pink said:


> Its hard to explain, but I almost feel that now isnt the right time to drop the hammer. My end goal is I want our marriage to work. If that means that I keep my mouth shut and we work on things slowly over time then thats what Ill do. I have envisioned a day where we are both in MC somewhere and we spill our secrets and maybe then in a controlled environment, when she is receptive to fixing us, I can say I knew about this 'the whole time'. I just feel that things are so fragile and toxic now, that if I said something, it would basically be the end of us, which is not what I want, especially since she hasnt really done anything yet.


Mr Pink,

I have periodically reviewed all my wife's electronic communications for almost two years and I accrue a huge amount of good for my marriage and my family due to this activity.

As my wife transitioned away from overtly destructive activities, my readings became less frequent but still regular nonetheless. Please let me describe what I feel is the greatest personal benefit I have received from my continued efforts.

Seemingly out of nowhere my wife will start being critical of me, asserting that she is treated unfairly in our marriage, asserting relationship "rules" to give herself more independence and generally projecting a lot of bad character traits onto me. This often builds over a course of days into various disrespectful outbursts and maybe even into hysterical yelling and screaming. I find that I can get a 100 percent correlation of my wife's destructive behavior to some conversation, meeting or some kind of communication with certain outside people in her life. This frees me from feeling guilty, blaming myself, and going crazy trying to figure out what I did wrong since I'm being attacked I must be causing it, right?

So I know who these people are and I know what they're saying/doing and this gives me time and reason to get myself prepared. Just last night, my wife wife was sharing about one of these persons (her associations are not secret but she and her associates think their communications are private between them) and I jumped on the outsider with both feet saying how I felt she (my wife's associate) was trying to influence my wife to the detriment of our marriage and I thought that was wrongful. Although I would never disclose anything specific I found through snooping, knowing what people are saying gives me the confidence to speak with authority


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It's weird. She keeps doing things and you keep making excuses for her and concluding that she won't take it farther. And you won't confront her. When she finally does take it farther, or when she finally leaves you, I predict that you'll claim that it surprised you and that you really didn't think she'd do it. Anyway, if you're not willing to take action then I recommend that you quit spying and just let her do what she's going to do. Spying without acting on what you find is just going to drive you crazy. Better to be blind-sided later and just be happy now.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Mr Pink,
> 
> I have periodically reviewed all my wife's electronic communications for almost two years and I accrue a huge amount of good for my marriage and my family due to this activity.
> 
> ...


Well this would be me staying on the path of reading all of her every thoughts, which makes me crazy because I feel that im taking things she says to friends out of context. Im not sure that knowing her every thought is worth the occasional foreknowledge of a fight coming...I could be wrong though


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's weird. She keeps doing things and you keep making excuses for her and concluding that she won't take it farther. And you won't confront her. When she finally does take it farther, or when she finally leaves you, I predict that you'll claim that it surprised you and that you really didn't think she'd do it. Anyway, if you're not willing to take action then I recommend that you quit spying and just let her do what she's going to do. Spying without acting on what you find is just going to drive you crazy. Better to be blind-sided later and just be happy now.


Im not saying she wont take it further, Im just saying I havent seen any evidence to suggest she has or will. Its really that I am at an exact tipping point, to where I feel her actions are shady enough which warrant the spying, but she hasnt really done anything wrong yet so it doesnt warrant me saying anything. If she left me I would not be surprised....nothing really surprises me anymore. I am willing to take action if this goes one bit further, but she has yet to meet up with anyone, or text/call another man at all. Really its just emails to an ex, which I think have stopped, and texts to her girlfriends....you think that warrants I say something now?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Mr Pink said:


> Im not saying she wont take it further, Im just saying I havent seen any evidence to suggest she has or will. Its really that I am at an exact tipping point, to where I feel her actions are shady enough which warrant the spying, but she hasnt really done anything wrong yet so it doesnt warrant me saying anything. If she left me I would not be surprised....nothing really surprises me anymore. I am willing to take action if this goes one bit further, but she has yet to meet up with anyone, or text/call another man at all. Really its just emails to an ex, which I think have stopped, and texts to her girlfriends....you think that warrants I say something now?


I think you need to at the LEAST approach your wife and say "Honey, it seems things between us haven't been right for some time now and I think you feel this way too. I am in this marriage for the long haul and I hope yoy are too. I'd like us to attaned marraige counseling to try and make our marriage better"


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Mr Pink said:


> Really its just emails to an ex, which I think have stopped, and texts to her girlfriends....you think that warrants I say something now?


Many people here who always advocate "total transparency" in a relationship would probably say yes to confront now... but I believe that confrontation at this point will only hurt your situation rather than improve it.

By confrontation, you tip your hand in admittance that you have been partaking in shady behavior yourself, and your wife will use that against you while simultaneously brushing off her own actions as harmless. And once you admit to spying, you admit guilt. But your wife won't admit guilt. So this will put you at a disadvantage afterwards and probably create even more damage to your relationship... possibly even projecting her forward even more into looking for an affair.

I say keep spying and keep improving yourself. Don't admit to anything. Use this time to your advantage to create improvement in your relationship and have a plan to stop spying in the future when you see your relationship has improved so much that you can trust your wife again.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

You may or may not ever find concrete evidence. So you could be laying low and spying for years to come. 

It sounds like a vicious cycle, one that no one is willing to break yet. So keep spying whenever you feel the need, and I'm sure she will continue to do what she is doing. As long as she thinks you know nothing at all, she will likely continue anyway. She thinks she is getting away with stuff and you are actually helping her by not spilling what you do know for now. 

If you truly feel not letting her know will change nothing, then do nothing at all and lets see where it goes.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Well my thinking is, if she wants to have an affair, if I say something before it happens, it wont curb her want to do it, it will just make her be more sneaky and lay low for a while, and maybe try again in the future.....as far as affairs go (not counting one night stands), I assume that I would see hundreds of texts/calls to the other man if something was going on right? According to my phone bill, she doesnt call or text any numbers I dont know, much less hundreds of times....so my thinking is to either stop spying or just scale back to the phone bill, then once I see non stop texts/calls to some random number, THEN either say something or scale back up to checking the emails and text wording again...

She isnt that tech savy or smart honestly, not sure she would have an affair without texting or calling the guy, but who knows.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

You're not tired of playing the "I spy" game yet. When you are, you will know, and things will come to a blow. At that point you may or may not have the proof you seem to be looking for. 

So for now, sit back get your spy on some more, and let her keep disrespecting you and the marriage. When you are truly tired of it all, you will then make a move on what you need to do.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Mr Pink said:


> Well my thinking is, if she wants to have an affair, if I say something before it happens, it wont curb her want to do it, it will just make her be more sneaky and lay low for a while, and maybe try again in the future.....


It could, OR it could put a little shock reality in her system and she may say, "Oh wait, I might have a marriage to lose!" My guess is, it could go several ways . Its either gonna be a wake up call to try and save her marriage, or she may hide it better and make you think things are ok and play you some more, or she may end it. You never know until someone takes a risk.


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## Latigo (Apr 27, 2011)

I have been spying for 3 years. But, I don't do it much anymore. I do a "nightly round". If I read anything suspicious, I investigate. If not, I figure all is well and go to sleep. I have no intention of stopping. I wouldn't tell your wife about it either. My wife knows, but I didn't need tp tell her what I was doing. She just figured that's what I was doing and decided to use it to her advantage. I don't think I would have told her if I would have told her after doing it for 4 months. The thing I have asked myself is, how much info do I need to have b4 I feel comfortable that everyting is kosher. For me it is the afore mentioned 10 minute round. 10 minutes isn't much of a sacrifice for me when it comes to protecting my marriage. If no guys are trying to cantact her...and no toxic friends, then I am ok. I don't read her idle chitchat with girlfriends though. Some things I don't want to know about.


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## inquiry (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm in a similar position so read your thread with interest. I've been spying for 2-3 months.

Looking back and perhaps prompted by this thread I think it has to stop. I now know more about my wife and her friends than is really helpful to my relationship with her. Some of her friends are having affairs, these are also friends of mine as are their husbands. I'm close to all of them 
Not good.

Half the things my wife says to her girlfriends are provado. Just girl talk. But - read by a partner in the context of a failing marriage, you hang on every word and innuendo.
Not good.

Hey, we're all different, but I'm going to try and focus on myself. Just read Mr Nice guys and was upset to recognise a good part of me in its chapters. 

So, I'm going to give my wife some space, try and ignore whatever she gets up to and try and not dig too deeply. For me, I'm going to focus on myself in every way I can. If it makes me more attractive to my wife - that's great and just what I want. If it does not, at least I'll begin the process of preparing myself for separation.

I hope this doesn't sound too negative but in my opinion it is about focusing your energies in the right places.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I am not sure I understand.

From the sounds of it, her email is locked so you can't check that and now her phone is locked, so you can't check THAT either.

If this is incorrect, please correct me.

Now, based on the two above observations, it SEEMS you are spying around the edges and not actually able to get the deep information (i.e. email)

So I would suggest for a SHORT time that you amplify your efforts with a key logger so you can get ALL her information. 

Sort through her emails etc. Get the dirt. Because your gut is telling you something is off.

Flirting is NOT alright. Particularly if you are RIGHT THERE. That's a efed up IN YOUR FACE manuver. And you seem to be excusing it because it wasn't even more blatant (Hint: she might not have spent more then 2 minutes with FB because they exchanged numbers)

But let's look at some DEEPER issues. She is FLIRTING with another man and bemoaning she is with you to her ex.

:scratchhead:

Um...WTF are you thinking? She's only having sex with you less then once a month. But this didn't twig onto your red flags?

She isn't that into you. She married you but she seems to regret it.

Here is my suggestion. YOU are spying and she is *****ing about you to her friends. That is enough information for you.

Let me amend my prior suggestions: IF you want to get the dirt on an affair so you can cut her loose, keep spying.

Otherwise, I would suggest this.

Off handedly comment: "You are never leave your email up anymore and your phone now has a password where it didn't before. You are flirting with other men too. I think you better ask yourself where your mind is going and what the end result of that crap is." Then walk away and do NOT discuss it with her. Leave the house for a chore. Turn your cell off too. Let her stew in the implications (all of this info is easily had WITHOUT spying, so you are revealing nothing except you are not a blind doofus)

You need to emotionally detatch from this woman. Because brother, she is emotionally detatched from YOU!

You haven't given me any sense that she's affectionate. She cleans the house, does the meals, checks her monthly planner and lies there and 'thinks of England' once a month (Or maybe the bartender)

That isn't a marriage which is worth much. So change yourself into being attractive and let her figure out what she really wants.

Hobbies. Gym. Outside Interests without her.

If you go this route, stop spying and STOP CARING.

She needs a sense that something valuable is slipping away.

She starts caring or you pull the plug. Let HER suggest MC because she'll resent the insinuation if you offer t.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

inquiry said:


> I'm in a similar position so read your thread with interest. I've been spying for 2-3 months.
> 
> Looking back and perhaps prompted by this thread I think it has to stop. I now know more about my wife and her friends than is really helpful to my relationship with her. Some of her friends are having affairs, these are also friends of mine as are their husbands. I'm close to all of them
> Not good.
> ...


That is a thorny can of worms. How do you look these guys in the eye knowing this about their unfaithful wives?

So are you going to stay uninvolved or do anything? How would you want them to react if the situation were reversed?

If I might make a suggestion. Find the cheater who a) you have the most information on b) dislike the most or c) has the angriest husband and send him enough details by an anonymous email to get him started. That drama might give the rest of the slvts a wake up call to get their act together.

If not, individually send THEM an email stating you know about their crappulance. If you have the names of the OMs, send the OMs Wives a head's up. If the women are lucky, he will brak up with the wives and they can get their heads on straight.

Or do nothing and be uncomfortable at parties. At the VERY least I'd tell my wife "I don't like X Y and Z. They seem disreputable and disconnected to their husbands"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

JCD said:


> I am not sure I understand.
> 
> From the sounds of it, her email is locked so you can't check that and now her phone is locked, so you can't check THAT either.
> 
> ...


Let me clarify I few things...first thing that set all this off was her gmail pw changing, but I was still able to get into her phone. Then about 2 weeks later she put a phone pw on, but I know the phone PW since I saw her type it in once. So while her phone has a pw, I can check her email that way, even though I dont know her email pw. I read every word typed for 4 months, and my findings were what I listed...so thats why I want to scale back. 

In terms of flirting with the bar tender, she wasnt doing it 'right in front of me' per se to the point to where I could say something about it. She was just doing it while I was there, nothing too crazy, but then when I saw her text to her friend a few days later, I saw that she texted her that night saying she was talking to a hot bartender. By then it was too late to say something without tipping my hand.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

inquiry said:


> I'm in a similar position so read your thread with interest. I've been spying for 2-3 months.
> 
> Looking back and perhaps prompted by this thread I think it has to stop. I now know more about my wife and her friends than is really helpful to my relationship with her. Some of her friends are having affairs, these are also friends of mine as are their husbands. I'm close to all of them
> Not good.
> ...



THis is pretty much where Im at. Im starting to realize that her talk with girl friends is just bravado and when I look at it through the lens of a failing marriage it makes me think the worst. I mean if she read a convo between me and one of my guy friends, we talk about random hot girls all the time, so I guess its the same thing.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

JCD said:


> I am not sure I understand.
> 
> From the sounds of it, her email is locked so you can't check that and now her phone is locked, so you can't check THAT either.
> 
> ...


Well I dont think they exchanged numbers bc of a few reasons...one the wedding was in North Carolina. When we were there, we were living in VA but have since moved to Austin Texas. I think it would be hard for them to meet up. I also have been monitoring the phone/text bill and havent seen one call or text to a random NC number or number I dont already know....so Im 'thinking' the 2 min search on FB was just so she could maybe show her two friends how hot he was, then she gave up. I could be wrong though


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You're wife is stacking up kindling and looking for a good place to light a fire. It's only a matter of time until she either decides to light it (have an affair) or to stop stacking kindling.


It's good that you're following the MAP. Make sure you really follow it - don't make it a "if I get around to it" type of thing. You should be hitting the gym, playing sports, and dressing well. You should also be engaging her with leader type interaction, not passive "gee, what do you want to do honey" conversations.

The MAP is the offensive play against her hooking up.

Your monitoring is your smart defensive play. You're keeping track of where the kindling is piled and hopefully you'll get advance warning of the match being taken out of the box. So you can softly redirect the situation before it escallates. If it gets as far as her deciding to strike the match- you've got a much harder problem than if the box is just open.

You might also drive more couple activity together - classes, physical activities are the best.


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## looking for answers (May 19, 2012)

I was doing something similar - lots of spying and making myself crazy. As soon as I found evidence of an emotional affair (and there was one) I confronted him. He insists nothing physical happened. It sounds like your wife is not happy but has not progressed very far down that path. 

We have been seeing a counselor for about 4 months. There has been some progress, but every two months (twice since the initial confrontation) he has interaction with her which sets off the whole spying thing all over again. It's like 2 stesp forward 1 step back. 

IMO it is better to get it out becuase otherwise you are partially to blame for causing strain in the marraige and further distance between the two of you.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Mr Pink said:


> Well I dont think they exchanged numbers bc of a few reasons...one the wedding was in North Carolina. When we were there, we were living in VA but have since moved to Austin Texas. I think it would be hard for them to meet up. I also have been monitoring the phone/text bill and havent seen one call or text to a random NC number or number I dont already know....so Im 'thinking' the 2 min search on FB was just so she could maybe show her two friends how hot he was, then she gave up. I could be wrong though


Okay. That is quibbling about details instead of dealing with the fact your wife has boundary issues. She is chatting with an old flame. She is flirting with bartenders. She's griping to her friends.

This is a journey of personal discovery for her but you won't like her destination.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Okay so don't tip your hand. Can't you just tell her you have a gut feeling that she isn't happy? Tell her you have this "feeling" she is looking for someone better. See what she says.

Have you read Married Man Sex Life?


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

sandc said:


> Okay so don't tip your hand. Can't you just tell her you have a gut feeling that she isn't happy? Tell her you have this "feeling" she is looking for someone better. See what she says.
> 
> Have you read Married Man Sex Life?


Yes I have and I have started MAP with mixed results. The move has stalled things a bit, but we do plan to see a therapist once we unpack and stuff.


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

JCD said:


> Okay. That is quibbling about details instead of dealing with the fact your wife has boundary issues. She is chatting with an old flame. She is flirting with bartenders. She's griping to her friends.
> 
> This is a journey of personal discovery for her but you won't like her destination.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree completely. Im not liking it at all, but the things you just mentioned, chatting with an old flame, griping, and flirting with bartenders....is that enough to bring up the fact Ive been spying? She is one to go on the extreme offensive and start talking about invasion of privacy etc, so if I come at her with this, its only going to happen once and its got to be good. If I was convinced that merely letter her know that I know of these things was to change her behavior I would do it, but I feel that it wouldnt change her behavior, it would just cut off my intel source and teach her to be more sneaky


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You're wife is stacking up kindling and looking for a good place to light a fire. It's only a matter of time until she either decides to light it (have an affair) or to stop stacking kindling.
> 
> 
> It's good that you're following the MAP. Make sure you really follow it - don't make it a "if I get around to it" type of thing. You should be hitting the gym, playing sports, and dressing well. You should also be engaging her with leader type interaction, not passive "gee, what do you want to do honey" conversations.
> ...


This does sound like what she is doing. Its almost like she is testing her abilities...reaching out to old flames, flirting up new guys...but hasnt done anything. I feel its only a matter of time before something happens, Im just not sure if me saying something will stop the behavior or if I should gently try and redirect her subconsciously when I learn she is out 'rekindling'


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Mr Pink said:


> I agree completely. Im not liking it at all, but the things you just mentioned, chatting with an old flame, griping, and flirting with bartenders....is that enough to bring up the fact Ive been spying? She is one to go on the extreme offensive and start talking about invasion of privacy etc, so if I come at her with this, its only going to happen once and its got to be good. If I was convinced that merely letter her know that I know of these things was to change her behavior I would do it, but I feel that it wouldnt change her behavior, it would just cut off my intel source and teach her to be more sneaky


Well I started with a specific suggestion: 'you no longer leave your email open and I tried to use your phone and it has a password on it. I've also felt a certain distance with you and notice you 'turn on' when you are around other men like that bartender in NC. So I have to ask what is going on with you that you seem to carving a secret niche in your heart from me. Why do you think I feel that way?'

This reveals that you feel there is a problem without revealing info sources.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

If your marriage is old and boring, and the sex life is stagnant... and IF she feels like she's getting older, or even just thinking about time passing by.... like a mini-MLC. 

Then she may just be kind of "checking'. Trying to see if she's "still got it". Just trying to figure out what the next part of her life might look like. 

My 2 cents.... stop spying, it isn't productive. Go to counseling with or without her. Maybe suggest that she could go also, to an independent counselor, and ya'll could meet together at the MC. (Seems like a lot tho... doesn't it? )

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand..... figure out her love language and WOO HER!!


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> If your marriage is old and boring, and the sex life is stagnant... and IF she feels like she's getting older, or even just thinking about time passing by.... like a mini-MLC.
> 
> Then she may just be kind of "checking'. Trying to see if she's "still got it". Just trying to figure out what the next part of her life might look like.
> 
> ...


I have thought it could be some type of MLC, even though she is 29, we have been together for 10 years so I feel we are old for our age, if that makes sense. 

Funny that you mention love language...mine is physical touch and I could have sworn hers was acts of service bc that is always what she has yelled at me about over the years. I did more acts of service for months with no change. Finally I was able to get her to take the test and hers is......PHYSICAL TOUCH. I was floored when I found out that we speak the same love language, yet have intimacy problems....ugh fml


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mr Pink said:


> I I could have sworn hers was acts of service bc that is always *what she has yelled at me about *over the years. I did more acts of service for months with no change. Finally I was able to get her to take the test and hers is......PHYSICAL TOUCH. I was floored when I found out that we speak the same love language, yet have intimacy problems....ugh fml


Why did she have to yell at you about taking care of stuff?


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

turnera said:


> Why did she have to yell at you about taking care of stuff?


Yell is a strong word. Was just quoting the book when it says to learn the other persons love language, listen to what they gripe about the most. I assumed hers was acts of service because she would say things like clean up dishes, put away laundry, that type of thing


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you both work?


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

Just me. Im the sole bread winner


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you ever read No More Mr Nice Guy?


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

No, I just finished MMSP, is it worth reading that as well?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What did you learn from MMSLP?


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## Mr Pink (Sep 26, 2012)

The differences between Alpha and Beta qualities make total sense. I have tried to implement more Alpha with mixed results, but its a work in progress and I am doing the MAP.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then I'd say you need to read NMMNG. It's more of a jolt of adrenaline in getting the alpha down than the one you've read.

Sounds to me like you are no longer respected (if you ever were). She won't come on to you if she doesn't respect you. Work harder on the MAP.


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