# How to Know When It's Time to Go



## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey everyone,

I have some updates for you, and based on the title, you can probably tell it's not good news. It's actually the title of the book she's reading now.

My wife is not happy with our relationship, and she's basically given up on our marriage. She feels hopeless and doesn't know what she wants to do with her life now. We've had a few discussions over the past 7-10 days. I've been wanting to post this sooner, but I've been putting it off for a few reasons, one of which is that she doesn't like me posting here.

Regardless, I need to get this off my chest and see if theres is any chance I can save my marriage. 

Here are some excerpts from our conversations over the past week or so..I tried to break it down from her and my POV

1. She felt like she had given all she could and I didn't give enough back. Also, she doesn't feel like I love her "deeply".

Not sure how you can prove you love someone or love them deeply. I always thought I did enough. We go out and eat together a lot. We traveled and had a lot of fun enjoyable memories together. I've always tried to show her affection at least in a cuddling, physical sense. She actually tells me I smother her too much.

2. She feels I proved to her that she wasn't the priority in our marriage. She always felt my games/hobbies/computer were more important than her. She eventually "accepted" I was never going to change and our relationship 

Me: Didn't feel like I went OUT to do hobbies more than I should, but I admit that I probably spent too much time being distracted by my phone, computer, games, etc. I would often tell her to hang on a minute if I was in the middle of something or would delay coming to bed when she called.

3. She learned how to be "independent" because I would go out when she didn't want me to, stay out too late or not respond to her texts/Calls. Now she doesn't care what I do/When I do it.
Me: Whenever I went out, we discussed and made arrangements/plans for it ahead of time. Sometimes her friends cancelled/didn't call her and she was home alone, or she didn't make any plans/have friends to hang out with (this was pretty early in our relationship). Also, I never intentionally ignored her calls or texts. Most of the time I didn't notice I had them because my phone was in silent mode.

4. She felt I could find someone who had more similar interests and was better for me (similar hobbies, interests, etc). She also thinks she might be able to find someone more suited for her.

5. I mentioned how I wanted to fight to save this marriage and see an MC. She called me Selfish because that was what I wanted, but what about how she felt/what she wanted? I told her I can only speak for how I felt, and I wasn't sure what she felt. 

6. She hasn't said "I Love you" in a long time. We used to do this every time I left for work/anywhere. I still say "I love you" and she just says "Take Care". 

7. When I gave her presents/gifts or tried to do something nice for her during recent special events, she says she "didn't feel anything". Even though I actually made plans/gave gifts for V-day and her B-day, it wasn't exactly what she was hoping for/expecting (ie. her B-day celebration happened the weekend before her B-day instead of on the ACTUAL day) therefore she feels I didn't care that much about these events that were special to her. 

8. She doesn't want to see a Marriage Counselor and says that your brain can't tell your heart how to feel. She's afraid that will open her eyes even more to the 'reality' of our situation, expose the flaws in our relationship, etc... and make her feel worse. I guess her reading "How to Know when it's time to go" gave her even more reasons to feel more hopeless because all the potential "reasons to leave" that she probably read and thusly thought applied to our relationship.

9. She says our relisgious situation is "totally Screwed up". She's Catholic, I'm Christian but not super "religious" and don't really care which church we go to, so we usually go to her church. I guess she feels I get bored and I don't really want to be there. 

10. She feels that even if we fix this marriage, she'll never feel the same as she did before. I also think she feels she doesn't love me anymore.
Me: I made a sad sigh once after our first serious discussion more than a week ago. She asked what was wrong and I told her I felt sad because she doesn't love me anymore. She said that she never said that, but her heart is still "hardened" and maybe it will take time to heal.


She admits that I'm doing better now, but feels it might be too litte/too late. She also feels I took our relationship for granted and was too complacent before, but now that she's thinking about leaving, I'm trying to chase her/keep her. 

I also mentioned how much I would miss her family/friends, she suggested that maybe we could still be friends. (Friend-zoned by my Wife, DAMN!!)

We also discussed about both of us don't want to be stuck in an unpleasant/unhappy marriage with no sex life and basically just be roommates. 

Anyways, I don't know if there's any hope for us. I'm pretty sure we'll be living together for awhile regardless because we just signed another year on our lease. Sometimes I feel I can eventually win her back over time. I know she talks about her heart being "hard" and taking time to heal. She also reminds me to buy tickets to go with her to Philippines later this year.
Other times I feel like we're on the verge of breaking up and she's about to leave me.

I also have mixed feelings of wanting to hang onto this relationship for as long as possible, and just wanting to end it and start fresh. I definitely want to do everything I can, so at least I can say I didn't just give up on us. I asked her if she wants to save this relationship, and she usually shrugs and seems uncertain. Either way, I've scheduled an appt with a marriage counselor...at the very least, I'll go to the sessions alone.

I know there are poeple out there who have saved their marriage when it's on the brink of total desolation.

Any advice for me? Any suggestions on what I could say to try and persuade her to go to Marriage counseling with me?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She actually sounds a lot like how I was once I realized I was DONE with my first marriage, sorry to say. I can totally relate to her saying that NOW you are trying to chase her and keep her, now that you see she was almost out the door...and its maddening. Give her space, practice the 180...because you need to start preparing yourself that you may need to start moving yourself on without her and because she will have more respect for you, end or no.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> She actually sounds a lot like how I was once I realized I was DONE with my first marriage, sorry to say. I can totally relate to her saying that NOW you are trying to chase her and keep her, now that you see she was almost out the door...and its maddening. Give her space, practice the 180...because you need to start preparing yourself that you may need to start moving yourself on without her and because she will have more respect for you, end or no.


Hey, thanks for the advice. Honestly, I thought I was doing okay at the relationship maintenance. As far as I remember, I was always there with her helping do the household chores, make dinner as well spending time with her.

I remember a lot of times she would complain or try to discuss issues in our relationship late at night in bed when I was trying to get some sleep. I wasn't particularly fond of her bringing all these issues up late at night and I would usually ask her if we could discuss tomorrow before or sometime before we go to bed. She took this as me not caring and trying to blow her off. Despite that, I would stay up late at night worrying about I needed to do to improve or what I could fix, but I was still reluctant to give my hobbies completely (like she wanted me to). I would try to stop doing whatever she complained about (usually something to do with my games/hobbies or spending too much time on my "electronics").

As mentioned before, I haven't been "gaming" as much recently, only a few times in the past 6-8 months. Probably still spending too much time in front of my computer or going to bed too late at times, I will admit to that. 

One thing I've realized is that the FACTS don't matter. Whether I did or didn't do something, the only thing that matters is how she sees it, and how she feels about it. I could be trying my darndest and be improving myself, but if she just notices the bad things/mistakes I made (especially is she's feeling past resentments).

Lastly, one of the reasons I was posting this is because I was hoping to visit my brother this weekend (he lives 4 hrs away). My wife said I could go if I want, but doesn't seem like she wants to go. I'm not sure if I should stay home (since the whole reason she's giving up on the marriage is because she feels I didn't spend enough time with her) or give her some alone time and do this whole 180 thing?

What do you guys think?

P.s, I'm a bit surprised I only have 1 response out of over 200 views. Not as much attention as I was expecting based on my past experience here.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

JukeboxHero said:


> P.s, I'm a bit surprised I only have 1 response out of over 200 views. Not as much attention as I was expecting based on my past experience here.


To be honest I saw your post last night, but did not know what to say. I posted in your "massacre" thread on the 29th March that if you didn't get your head out of your arse you'd have a Walk-Away-Wife on your hands. And here we are 18 days later. And I'm still not sure what advice to give you.


> Lastly, one of the reasons I was posting this is because I was hoping to visit my brother this weekend (he lives 4 hrs away). My wife said I could go if I want, but doesn't seem like she wants to go. I'm not sure if I should stay home (since *the whole reason she's giving up on the marriage *is because she feels I didn't spend enough time with her) or give her some alone time and do this whole 180 thing?


This kind of mis-representation won't help you. She told you over and over what she expected of you.

Your marriage is in i's death throes and you want to know whether this would be the opportune time to visit your brother. Wives aren't things you fit in whilst you carry on with the rest of your life.

What to do you think? What you want? Are you really cut out for marriage (at this time)?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I would say yes, go visit your brother if you want to. Hovering around her isnt doing you a damn bit of good, and probably just annoying the crap out of her.


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## grushim1239 (Apr 13, 2015)

From a woman's perspective I think she's done with marriage. I see myself treating my husband the same way. We were separated for 4 months, and had actually filed for divorce. I allowed him to come back home because of the "changes" that he had made. Well 4 months into our reconciliation and the "changes" are gone and the "old man" has come back. And to be honest, he's not all bad. He has his good qualities. And as bad as I feel about it, I'm not happy. I'm actually miserable. I just don't love him as a wife should love her husband. I mean I care about him, I just don't want to be married.


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## Wiredtired (Apr 16, 2015)

This sounds like my marriage....my wife is very into her computer time, Facebook games, etc. Here's some advice....screw the games. My wife has made it very clear that I am not a priority for her. Take it from someone who is living this. The computer, games, etc. are a bunch mindless bull****. You need to focus on your wife and fix this.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

What hobbies bugged her?

Are you in good physical shape?

Read Bagdon's thread. DayOne, could also help.


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## Colonel Angus (Apr 11, 2015)

Sir, the more successful men with women have always been willing to let them go. They know that if the woman is no longer in love or attracted to them, that it is pointless and unattractive to not let go and hold on to her. They know how to vow out gracefully and so should you.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

I want to know in general why men stop doing the things that "caught" us when dating. When a man is in pursuit mode, they are so attentive, caring and exciting, then we get married and it stops. Women then are left wondering what the hell happened? It's almost like a switch a roo. We crave our husband's attention, affection, love and physical touch especially outside the bedroom. We discuss this with our girlfriends, family and sometimes coworkers because we're looking for reasons why we now have a stranger for a spouse. This could go on for years with the wife often trying to bring this frustration to the husband only for it to be minimized. Same thing that happened in my marriage. When asked my WH why men do that-his response was why would I continue to do all those things when I already got you. Needless to say, I felt unappreciated. It was actually his A that opened my eyes that I can leave this relationship just as he was able to. the part of my vows - for me till death do we part- was serious to me not so much him. I became withdrawn and stopped expressing my love for him by all the little things that women do for someone they love-like saying I love you, calling him at work to see how his day is going, sending the kids over to family so we can have time alone etc and stopped having sex with him. He became confused and attempted to re engage but like your wife my heart was hardened and wasn't receptive of what he was doing or saying. I set out to find myself and went to counseling alone b/c he refused and it was through the sessions that I've learned to express my wants for the marriage and what I needed from him. I can't force him into counseling but I can improve me to set boundaries and demand what I need in the relationship. So, my advice is to attempt counseling especially with her being Catholic and find some enjoyable activities that can foster an emotional bond between you and her. If she won't go to counseling with you then go alone at least she will see the changes that you are making to better yourself to become a more conscientious partner.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

You allowed the marriage to die a long time ago, sorry but it sounds like too little, too late.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Holland said:


> You allowed the marriage to die a long time ago, sorry but it sounds like too little, too late.


OP's post sounds like the exact script to the final scene of my marriage.

OP, you must do a 180 as it's the only chance if this marriage is something you want to save. Be willing to accept how she responds. Words won't help now you need action. This is coming from a guy who was once exactly in your shoes.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

She has checked out for good.........prepare yourself for the next phase of your life. Accept it and move on. To do otherwise is going to prolong your agony as she has all the power right now. Trust me on this.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

You are in a situation where your wife is ruled by her negative perceptions of the marriage. You are pretty much in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Your best chance to save things is to back off and apply 180 principles..as distance can sometime create a perception reset, but nothing is a sure thing...otherwise, there really isn't much you can do for a wife who had checked out and isn't interested in reconciliation.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I have to say that I agree with Personal. You made decisions about YOUR opinion of how much/when/ where about your hobbies. SHE was not the priority. Doing just barely enough was yours. And you don't make connection that way.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I have some updates for you, and based on the title, you can probably tell it's not good news. It's actually the title of the book she's reading now.
> 
> ...


I think your wife is ready to cross the line of no return. There are some who would say your marriage is salvageable but to be honest as a woman who is in more or less the same position after being through this whole scenario on and off for many years. if there are no kids and nothing to hold her back, unless you pull out all the stops and do some grand gestures, she is leaving, why would she stay. A woman feels what she feels, you saying she has got it wrong (your perspective) means absolutely diddly, it is how she feels that matters not what you think. I get the same minimizing behaviour from my husband and it drives me crazy but for the moment I cannot go due to kids. You are trying to justify your inaction, sorry buddy but if she wont go to MC with you, she is already gone.
Why is it men only wake up when the wife has one foot out the door? Beats me.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

FormerSelf said:


> You are in a situation where your wife is ruled by her negative perceptions of the marriage. You are pretty much in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Your best chance to save things is to back off and apply 180 principles..as distance can sometime create a perception reset, but nothing is a sure thing...otherwise, there really isn't much you can do for a wife who had checked out and isn't interested in reconciliation.


Hey thanks everyone, 

I appreciate the advice. I think I've actually been applying some of the 180 principles as far as improving myself; paying off student loans, getting in better physical shape, looking for a better job, selling old hobby stuff, etc.

I'm still a bit on the fence about going to my brother's this weekend, but I'm feeling like it might be part of the 180 plan and giving the relationship some space.

We actually had a talk last night and she currently feels that if we tried to reconcile, she wouldn't feel the same and if I slipped up in the future, it would hurt her more. At this time were communicating like 2 reasonable, calm adults who could probably make an amicable seperation.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

azteca1986 said:


> Your marriage is in i's death throes and you want to know whether this would be the opportune time to visit your brother. Wives aren't things you fit in whilst you carry on with the rest of your life.


Amen! I remember my H saying he was too busy to take the time to discuss us, even as I was telling him that we either fix our relationship or leave. But he took the time to watch the NCAA games, Seinfeld reruns, and spend hours at the gym. When I pointed this out, he got defensive and said he's not dropping everything in his life for me. I didn't ask for that; just some focus from him to fix us. We have kids to consider. 

His defensiveness spoke volumes about what he wants from me, which is to shut up and act happy. He will deny that to the bitter end, but his actions say otherwise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey thanks everyone,
> 
> I appreciate the advice. I think I've actually been applying some of the 180 principles as far as improving myself; paying off student loans, getting in better physical shape, looking for a better job, selling old hobby stuff, etc.
> 
> ...


I just need to say that from what I have read on this thread, I see someone who puts himself first. You go through the motions (requisite birthday party, requisite time together), but what I don't see here is any passion or true commitment from you toward your wife or your marriage. If you don't feel that, if you aren't willing to prioritize your marriage over your gaming and other hobbies, then let her go. That's not to say you can't have hobbies - not at all. But if your dad were dying, would you play on the computer or go be with him? Well, your marriage is dying. It can die all at once (cheating), or it can die a slow, painful death by 1000 cuts (indifference and neglect).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

SurpriseMyself said:


> I just need to say that from what I have read on this thread, I see someone who puts himself first. You go through the motions (requisite birthday party, requisite time together), but what I don't see here is any passion or true commitment from you toward your wife or your marriage. If you don't feel that, if you aren't willing to prioritize your marriage over your gaming and other hobbies, then let her go. That's not to say you can't have hobbies - not at all. But if your dad were dying, would you play on the computer or go be with him? Well, your marriage is dying. It can die all at once (cheating), or it can die a slow, painful death by 1000 cuts (indifference and neglect).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What do you feel is the difference between "passion" and "requisite"?

Are you suggesting I shouldn't go hang out with my brother this weekend and give her space? I noticed the analogy of marriage dying and playing computer games--because I wasn't planning on playing games and ignoring my marriage.

Also, I want to make it clear that I don't see myself as most husbands that wives complain about who ignore them for long periods of time while they Watch TV, play games, etc. When I used to go out and play my card games/do my hobbies, it would typically be once or twice a month on Friday or Saturday evening for 5-6 hrs. But she also may have needed more time with me back then too. 

If I was at home, I would try not to be doing anything on my PC for more than 1 hr, typically on the weekend after we had done all of our shopping, housework, and ideally while she was busy with TV or sometimes last minute going to bed. I thought this pretty standard habits/behaviour for a married couples to do their own thing her and there. But, I'll admit that I did--perhaps still do--get distracted by my phone/Tablet when we're relaxing together, when I'm bored, etc. I suppose these are bad habits I should dump regardless.


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