# Need perspective and advice from someone who has been there



## scout76 (Jul 2, 2015)

I just need to get all of this mess off of my chest and hear from others who have been where I am. Family and friends mean well, but none of them have been through this. We've been married 17 years and have five children. Our last pregnancy was a surprise, and it was hard on me. We have busy lives with all of the children and both of us working, and we have always had financial troubles. Almost at the end of my pregnancy I noticed a change in my husband's behavior. He put a lock on his phone, and I knew he was texting a woman he worked with. I wasn't ok with the texting, and we had many arguments about it. His job requires him to work at night sometimes, and there were times he would come in very late or go back out after we were all in bed. I would call him on it, but he would say he was going to dispatch to hang out with other officers and do paperwork. I called him on it every time and asked him several times if he was having an affair. Of course he denied it. We had our beautiful baby boy in Sept. amidst all of this tension, and I hoped things would get better. Instead they stayed the same, with him still going out several times a week and all the tension in our family and marriage. 
To make a long story short, finally in Feb he told me about the affair he had been having with this woman he had been texting since August. I was so shocked because even though I had been suspicious, I loved him so much and believed him. I asked him if he wanted to stay, and he thought I was going to throw him out. He and the other woman were so sure I would throw him out that he was planning to move in with her. He was going to leave me and let me think it was because of our financial problems. I decided right away that I wasn't giving up on him or our marriage and told him he would have to choose. He chose to stay but it took nearly a month for him to completely break off contact with her. During this time there he seemed angry and irritated with me, but all I did was try to move on. I was concerned when he would talk to her or see her at work or text her. She was constantly bothering him. Finally one night he told me he had to make a choice and that he was going to see her. I told him not to come home unless he broke things off with her completely. He came home later and said that he had, crying saying there wasn't really a choice to be made, that it was always me. I took him at his word, and we moved on for about a month. Then I found some text messages on his phone from her. He had hid her name under someone else's so I wouldn't see the messages. They were very much about how she wanted to be with him and be a mom to our kids and how she was pissed he was still sleeping with me. He was telling her about how perfect she was and how anyone would be lucky to have her. When I confronted him I was so angry. He wasn't, just said that he just wanted to be her friend, that she is a single mom who doesn't have anyone. I said absolutely not, that he had to leave if he was going to be in any contact with her, and I even had all his stuff packed. Days went by without him moving out, and us just being civil. I told him he had to make a choice. Then he admitted that the night a month before that he didn't really break things off completely with her and that he had actually slept with her. 
He has since blocked her number, tells me the affair is over, and we are trying to move on. He says he doesn't want a divorce, and I don't either. He says he loves me, and I know I love him. I told him his words were not enough because he has lied to me too many times and that I can't stay married to him if he starts seeking out any contact with her. I am just so insecure now. He can't even tell me how or why the affair started, but I feel like such a failure and so stupid. Stupid for not seeing it sooner, for believing him. I feel like I've failed at being a good wife to him, must not have been what he wanted or needed, not pretty enough, all that garbage. I cant help but feel that way and question everything he says and does. I want to believe he loves me, but I can't believe anything he says. Does it get easier? Any advice from those who have been through it. I know he has never had an affair before because he personality had completely changed when the affair started. He was so unlike him, so angry, distant, cold, argumentative. I just want to be happy and move on if he says it's over. I am just having a really hard time. How should I proceed? Take him at his word unless he proves me wrong?


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

With five children, including one only nine months old, I can understand why it would be very difficult for you to leave this marriage. However, he knows you are in that position and therefore knows that this can just be swept under the rug. You've given him a few ultimatums, which he has continued to not follow. Since you are not ready to leave this marriage, you have no power to make him seriously regret the damage he has done. You say that you just want to be happy and move on, but that is not realistic. Without his deep regret and having to face serious consequences, you actually would not be happy even if he stops sleeping with her. The damage has already been done to you and your marriage. In my opinion, you would be better off by being strong and living on your own for several months. By just rug sweeping the problem, you will still feel miserable a few years from now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here are 3 books that help a lot of people recover their marriages. My computer is acting up. I have move I want to post but will do it in a minute.

Surviving an Affair: Willard F. Jr. Harley, Jennifer Harley Chalmers

His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage: Willard F. Jr. Harley

Love Busters: Protecting Your Marriage from Habits That Destroy Romantic Love: Willard F. Jr. Harley


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

You are now in a very weak position as you have 5 children and are emotionally hurt.. If you have the options of imposing some of the consequences on him that he has earned then do that. Not vengeance but consequences. If the consequences do not make the changes you want you need to make a plan and then you get more self-sufficient. *You cannot trust this man with your emotions and life as he has proven he will hurt you to the bone.*

Build yourself up, this may take years, but get into the position that you can support yourself. Also, work on your emotions so that you do not crumble but get stronger so that you demand respect. You may think that he is the only one for you but millions of women have said the same thing and then wound up without him and had a better life. *You can do that also but you are going to have to get a tougher and never give up.*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

scout76,

As painful as this is, a good number of couples go on to recover from affairs and have even better, more fulfilling marriages afterwards. this is probably because they learn more about each other and learn to be more protective of the marriage. So they do a much better job of meeting each other's needs.


Please stop beating yourself up. Your husband's affair has nothing to do with you. The two of you share the state of your marriage at the time that he chose to have an affair. But the affair itself is 100% his choice. 

It sounds to me like he was overwhelmed with the idea of one more child and more financial burden. So he tried to run away from that. What a stupid notion. If he thought that the financial burden was too much with 5 children, what did he think that it would be like in a divorce where he would most likely be giving you child support. If you two are having issues with 2 incomes. Imaging what it would be like having to maintain 2 households? He lost his mind to be sure.

Is he still working with the OW?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Some other good books that can help.


After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful, 2nd Edition: Janis A. Spring

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Linda J. MacDonald


Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is he In law enforcement?

If so his commanding officer/s should be told.

You could try marital counselling and individual counselling too.

She wants you man AND your children.

This woman is a potential menace and must be dealt with accordingly.

Seek legal advice on how to have her dealt with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

First of all none of this is your fault, you are a busy mother, was pregnant also and he is the one who was is to blame. To do this in the middle of your pregnancy says much more about him than you. So stop blaming yourself.

You want this to work, but it will not unless you prepared to lose the marriage and follow through on your threats. I know you have children to think about but you must take care of yourself first, to live in this limbo land will only make it worse for you.

Your husband knows he can have his cake and eat it because (a) you have shown your willingness to make it work, you have shown no anger and have basically been a walk over (b) he has made many promises, broken them all and you have enabled him to do so.

You have to change your tactics. Give him one more chance to cut all contact, write the NC letter, whatever it takes for you to be assured. Tell him if he breaks this you are filing for divorce. Get yourself a good lawyer lined up and ready to go. You should also tell your family (parents, siblings) his family, friends, colleagues, anyone who will listen so as to expose this affair. Exposed affairs rarely survive. People will think he is a POS for doing this to you and rightly so, you need to ensure he comes out of that affair fog ASAP. He has to see that you really mean business. I think your husband would be shocked if you did this, as for now your softly softy approach makes him think he can get away with what he has done.

He has also shown no remorse or considered the damage he has done to you, which does not auger well for a stronger marriage in the future. You cannot build a strong marriage on a shaky foundation, no matter what you do. He has to be doing the crawling (not the other way around), and it is up to you what way things proceed from here. Not him or the OW should be calling the shots.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Sadly, I don't see any way of you ever being able to trust this man again unless he finds a new job, or she does.

Sorry for what you're going through. It is NOT your fault.

And her comment about being a mom to YOUR kids!? That made ME breathe fire and I'm not even you!


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## badaboom (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm with SecondTime'Round, I want to destroy her for you - they are your children, she will never be their mom. What you need is complete transparency. Without that, you'll never trust him. 

You asked for opinions for someone who has been there - I'm in the midst of this myself, except my husband never even said he wanted to stay married to me. I'm dealing with the grief and coping with the understanding that the affiar is not my fault. I do completely understand your feelings of guilt and shame and blame - not sure I'm the best model (probably not) but those feelings are normal, you just need to learn how to deal with them and cope with knowing that the man you thought was your husband is not this man you are married to. It's a really hard realization, probably one of the hardest I've come to, but an important one. Love and respect must go hand in hand, and lies upon lies upon lies show major disrespect. It will be the hardest thing you've probably ever done, but you have to show him you are serious and that you will divorce him. If he lets you go, you'll be better off. If he comes through for you and works to be a good, honest husband, then that's great too. Anything else is unacceptable.


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## scout76 (Jul 2, 2015)

Thanks for all of the advice. I have contacted a lawyer just to see what my options are, and I have taken some steps to independence, including a separate checking account and po box. He has since taken all day shifts, so they do not see each other at work anymore since she works nights. He has been more attentive and seems sincere about making our marriage work, although he refuses to go to counseling. I have made it very clear to him that if he strikes up conversation with her in any way that we are over and I am filing. I am just not sure if I should be asking to see his phone every day or asking if he is talking to her or just let things go as they are, trying to trust him until he gives me reason not to. He has blocked her number and says it is over. I know he is not seeing her because he just doesn't have the time, every min is accounted for. I am just having such a hard time trusting him, and I know I am going to have to learn to if we are ever going to move on. I am just constantly worried he is talking to her or is wanting to.


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## badaboom (Feb 19, 2015)

scout76 said:


> Thanks for all of the advice. I have contacted a lawyer just to see what my options are, and I have taken some steps to independence, including a separate checking account and po box. He has since taken all day shifts, so they do not see each other at work anymore since she works nights. He has been more attentive and seems sincere about making our marriage work, although he refuses to go to counseling. I have made it very clear to him that if he strikes up conversation with her in any way that we are over and I am filing. I am just not sure if I should be asking to see his phone every day or asking if he is talking to her or just let things go as they are, trying to trust him until he gives me reason not to. He has blocked her number and says it is over. I know he is not seeing her because he just doesn't have the time, every min is accounted for. I am just having such a hard time trusting him, and I know I am going to have to learn to if we are ever going to move on. I am just constantly worried he is talking to her or is wanting to.


My opinion, you should check his phone as often as you feel the need to. As he regains your trust, you will feel the need less and less. I personally don't think you need to constantly ask him, but you should ask him when you're wondering. It's that complete transparency I mentioned earlier. He needs to be open with you and understanding that your trust will take time to rebuild. And he needs to help facilitate that. 

Also, as it's been made very clear in other posts - they always find time if they want to. Don't take "he's too busy" as the only reason why. Go with your gut.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Scout
> I have contacted a lawyer just to see what my options are, and I have taken some steps to independence, including a separate checking account and po box


VERY GOOD START!




> By Scout
> I am just having such a hard time trusting him, and I know I am going to have to learn to if we are ever going to move on.


If you are going to trust him again it is mostly his responsibility. He needs to do everything he can to assure you he has truly changed and he must do that for a LONG TIME!! 




> By Scout
> He has since taken all day shifts, so they do not see each other at work anymore since she works nights. He has been more attentive and seems sincere about making our marriage work, although he refuses to go to counseling.


The consequences of him facing your lawyer and the law regarding a divorce may have made him decide to “see the light”. *Sometimes consequences can really get a cheater to start having an attitude readjustment*.


Your husband decided to have 5 children and if he does anymore to hurt them then he is just a selfish cop-out and a punk. His betrayals have hurt you so much that you are not thinking straight. You DID NOT MAKE HIM BETRAY HIS FAMILY; that is all on his weakness and selfishness. * If he wants to play with fantasy and cop-out of reality then you need to get your lawyer to do everything for you and your children*. If he does not show with actions that he is going to be completely committed to you and his children then he is a loser and you are much better off without him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

scout76 said:


> I am just not sure if I should be asking to see his phone every day or asking if he is talking to her or just let things go as they are, trying to trust him until he gives me reason not to.


Here's my list I give people who are considering reconciling after infidelity, what you should require of him. You could tell him that you researched how to recover, and this is what's recommended; that you want this from him, and if he's not willing, that's fine, you'll make plans to separate:

NO passwords on ANY of his electronics
Hands over his electronics any time you request so you can verify
Writes OW a No Contact letter stating that he is choosing his marriage and to never contact him again; you will view it first to approve and send it with him
At least 6 sessions of therapy with you to discuss what happened and how to successfully move forward (make it clear it is NOT to bash him, but to see how it happened so you can prevent it happening again)
Visit your parents and tell them what happened and ask their forgiveness

Now, if you never told anyone about it, you may want to leave off the last item, but I don't recommend it, because he's not all that remorseful; i.e., he hasn't really suffered any kind of consequences to help him FEEL the devastation you've been through. Having to face your parents and admit what he did will help him see just how awful a thing he did. And just might stop him from doing it again.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

S76,

In a word... Consequences.


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## scout76 (Jul 2, 2015)

So it has been nearly eight months since he told me about the affair and four since he ended it completely. He now has no contact with her and we have been doing pretty good these past months, getting along pretty good. I started to feel pretty confident that we were okay. However, although we have been sexually intimate, he does not give affection. No touching or emotion other than sex. He will tell me he loves me occasionally if I say it first. I just feel like there is this distance between us, so I asked him how he felt about me and he said that he cares about me and loves me in certain way but that he wonders if he is in love with me. He thinks he was in love with the other woman and may still be, although they have had absolutely no contact and she has moved. I need advice on what to do. Do I stay and fight for this marriage? I really want it to work. I truly do love him, despite everything that he's done. We've been married so long, and I don't just want to give up. He says he is not walking away and has not said he wants a divorce. Do I just keep trying to love him and maybe his feelings for me will be rekindled? Or is it time to walk away? Maybe I've already lost him?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

scout76 said:


> So it has been nearly eight months since he told me about the affair and four since he ended it completely. He now has no contact with her and we have been doing pretty good these past months, getting along pretty good. I started to feel pretty confident that we were okay. However, although we have been sexually intimate, he does not give affection. No touching or emotion other than sex. He will tell me he loves me occasionally if I say it first. I just feel like there is this distance between us, so I asked him how he felt about me and he said that he cares about me and loves me in certain way but that he wonders if he is in love with me. He thinks he was in love with the other woman and may still be, although they have had absolutely no contact and she has moved. I need advice on what to do. Do I stay and fight for this marriage? I really want it to work. I truly do love him, despite everything that he's done. We've been married so long, and I don't just want to give up. He says he is not walking away and has not said he wants a divorce. Do I just keep trying to love him and maybe his feelings for me will be rekindled? Or is it time to walk away? Maybe I've already lost him?


It takes time to get over infatuation, which is what your husband was/is feeling. It's exactly like a drug addiction, because it *is* a drug addiction. The drug is dopamine, a chemical that is released into your bloodstream when you are "in love".

You should love him as well as you can, and he needs to make sure that you have no concerns about his re-contacting the other woman.

If you both keep on that track, you still have a chance to recover your marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It takes a while for those PEA addiction chemicals to get out of your body when you're cheating. So be patient.

That said, YOU can be doing a lot to improve your relationship. Have you read His Needs Her Needs? Read it asap! Fill out the questionnaires with him and learn more about each other, what the other wants and how you hurt the other (so you can DO what the other wants and stop HURTING the other).

And you should be spending 15 hours a week together away from kids/chores/work/tv/computers/games. Taking walks, talking, pillow fight, camp out in the backyard, go to a flea market together, take day trips, try out new restaurants...

You have to WORK to keep a marriage valuable and healthy. Are you?


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## scout76 (Jul 2, 2015)

I've really been trying to work at the marriage. I've planned several date nights we've had, make sure to text him while he is working to let him know I'm thinking of him. I've tried to really be concerned about his needs and make him feel important, making myself available to him when he needs it. I've cut back all our extra-curricular activities so we can have more time together. He just acts completely uninterested in working on our marriage. He will do family time with the kids, but one-on-one time with me he seems to care less about. I've tried to get him to go to counseling with me, to do a marriage devotion book with me, but he refuses. I'm trying to be really patient. It just seems like I'm the only one who wants us to work. However, I think he must have feelings for me and want our marriage on some level or he would already be gone.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wait, what? HE cheated, and HE refuses to go to MC?

Then you handled this wrong. You should have said "here's my list of requirements; if you won't do them, start packing because you don't belong here any more."

Instead, you taught him that he can cheat and still come home and do NOTHING.

Start packing up his stuff. See a lawyer. It's done.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*



He thinks he was in love with the other woman and may still be

Click to expand...

**Your husband is thinking like a fool and does not have a clue what love is.* Your husband has chosen to betray his whole family, including FIVE CHILDREN! That is real selfish which is the opposite of love, your husband did not protect his family from harm but chose to do the opposite; that is not love, and your husband has brought dishonor to himself and failed to honor his family, that is not love! *Your husband needs to know what real love is!*

I have seen this claim of love many times and it is becoming sickening because they try to spin love into their definition to justify their lack of integrity. Basically what your husband did was to choose to please his penis and other negative emotions that cause great harm to the family. 


*



Do I just keep trying to love him and maybe his feelings for me will be rekindled? Or is it time to walk away? Maybe I've already lost him?

Click to expand...

**Unless he becomes truly remorseful and realizes that he has twisted the definition of love, then proves that to you with actions for a very longtime, you will have a mediocre marriage at best.* In fact the chances are that he will make your life very unfulfilled and painful. My guess is that he is folding under his responsibilities and wanting to run away and escape his duty to be a man and love his wife and to do what is best for his children. He is coping out of that and does not want to grow up but to live in a fantasy world. He thinks that being with her will give him a life without responsibilities, will give him the sexual excitement that he wants, and all the other selfish desires he has, will be great.

As someone has stated there is a chance that he will do all that is necessary to come back and be the husband and father that he should be. However, IMO that is not very common. You should start right now and make a plan that will benefit you and the children. You can try and help your husband but if it takes one minute away from you building yourself up then you are putting yourself in jeopardy. Your goal should be to get yourself in a position that you are able to live with him or without him. You will never get to where you are a compete island but you need to get a lot more self-sufficient because he has torn you down. If you do not get stronger then you will be dependent on him for your emotional well being. If you get stringer then you will be better if he helps to make the marriage work or if you seperate or D. *With you getting stronger you win in either situation.*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This is what you need to do with your "husband" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df0k32UtdNA


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You WH should be pulling out all the stops to ensure you and his family are still in his life, he has to know what it is like to lose you all, you have made this far to easy for him. In fact you are enabling the rug sweeping with your earnest desire to 'get over' what he did and move on quickly and quietly. Wrong move imo. He must know the damage he has caused, the pain you have felt, the trust that has been broken. Believe me when I tell you that rug sweeping never ends well, you will be 15 years down the road in a marriage with little trust and half filled dreams.

I know you want security and a home for the kids, but he can still be a parent. You have to tell him, you have waited long enough for him to get his act together, he has not agreed to counselling nor has done anything to let you know that this wont happen again and he is 100% invested in the marriage. Go 180 on him, prepare yourself emotionally and go back to that lawyer and file. You do not have to go through with it, but shake up your WH's world. At the moment he is cruising and you are allowing it. Stop that immediately as it will not end well.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Do I stay and fight for this marriage?"

Personally....I wouldn't.

Bad enough that he turned into a traitorous POS.

But his attitude and treatment of you since the A are simply unacceptable.

I think you should file for D and tell him to either get his head out of his a** and start doing the counseling and showing you he really wants to stay in this M, or you will gladly rid yourself of his worthless a** because you deserve so much better.


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## scout76 (Jul 2, 2015)

I really do feel like I am dying inside. He has now said he thinks he has felt differently for a few years and that he has just been going through the motions. I just feel so stupid. I thought everything was fine. I've been totally blindsided by this and stood by him through everything. I hate to give up and throw in the towel but it is so hard to get up every day and not feel loved, respected, or wanted. I know I probably sound whiny and needy, and I don't want to, but this mess has been going on for just over a year and I'm so tired of always worrying about my marriage. He has told me in the past many times that we are both adulterers because I was financially unfaithful and made bad money choices. I think that is just his way of justifying the affair. I think that is also why he says he his feelings for me had been different for awhile. I think this 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' stuff is crap and just a way for people to get out of a relationship when the times get hard and they are bored and don't want to put in any work. It is so unfair to me and my kids. How can one person be so selfish?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

scout76 said:


> I really do feel like I am dying inside. He has now said he thinks he has felt differently for a few years and that he has just been going through the motions.


EVERY cheater says that. It's called 'rewriting history.' Google that with 'affairs.'

It's how they can look themselves in the mirror, knowing how they've trashed you.

Ignore it.

The real issue is, what are you going to do about it? Stay with a man who's using you for convenience but clearly doesn't respect you?


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

You're right, he is using your past money troubles/poor decisions to throw blame off himself for his affair. That is complete bull. The two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Dont entertain that crud. If he was upset about that issue or any other, he could have dealt with it by talking to you, going to counseling, going to a financial advisor, etc. He chose to cheat. That's completely unacceptable and 100% on him.

Until you start showing him with your actions that he needs to earn you back, he will never be remorseful.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Scout
> I really do feel like I am dying inside. ……..it is so hard to get up every day and not feel loved, respected, or wanted…….. this mess has been going on for just over a year and I'm so tired of always worrying about my marriage.


*
Scout
What is your plan for you to become more self sufficient?*


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

This is devastating! Please take care of yourself and the children.


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## scout76 (Jul 2, 2015)

I need to stop being afraid of being without him. I know that will be hard because we have been together for 21 years. I've given him the best years if my life and I'm not sure how to live without him. I know that I can, it will just be so hard, especially for our five children. And I know our marriage up until this has been really good. That's why it hurts to hear him say his feelings have changed and he's been unhappy, which I don't believe. My plan is to have someone watch the children for the evening and when he gets home to set down with him at the table and tell him how I feel and what I want, and what I need for him to do. He has had more than enough time to sort out his feelings for her and put them in perspective and figure out if he really wants our marriage. Whenever things get tight financially he becomes despondent and depressed and irritable and all I hear is about my past money mistakes and how he will never have anything. When we had an argument a few weeks ago about the finances he told me he didn't care about our marriage, just about money. I know that the affair is just a symptom of an even bigger problem for him. He needs help to work through some issues, and I truly think he may be bi-polar. When he's in a good mood, everything is great, when he's in a bad mood he is downright mean to me. When I have the talk with him I am going to insist on counseling, and if he won't do it, then I am going to ask him to leave. I know he doesn't want to spend money on the counseling but I think we are worth it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

scout76 said:


> I need to stop being afraid of being without him. I know that will be hard because we have been together for 21 years. I've given him the best years if my life and I'm not sure how to live without him. I know that I can, it will just be so hard, especially for our five children. And I know our marriage up until this has been really good. That's why it hurts to hear him say his feelings have changed and he's been unhappy, which I don't believe. My plan is to have someone watch the children for the evening and when he gets home to set down with him at the table and tell him how I feel and what I want, and what I need for him to do. He has had more than enough time to sort out his feelings for her and put them in perspective and figure out if he really wants our marriage. Whenever things get tight financially he becomes despondent and depressed and irritable and all I hear is about my past money mistakes and how he will never have anything. When we had an argument a few weeks ago about the finances he told me he didn't care about our marriage, just about money. I know that the affair is just a symptom of an even bigger problem for him. He needs help to work through some issues, and I truly think he may be bi-polar. When he's in a good mood, everything is great, when he's in a bad mood he is downright mean to me. When I have the talk with him I am going to insist on counseling, and if he won't do it, then I am going to ask him to leave. I know he doesn't want to spend money on the counseling but I think we are worth it.


Worth it? You and your children are worth it.

But your husband? Oh, wait! Apparently the jury are still out on that one...


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Hi Scout. Yes, he may be bi polar. But I actually think you're dealing with a midlife crisis, which is far more significant and much more deeply seated than simply having discontent and and the stereotypical response of buying a motorcycle or a shiny new car. MLC will produce the same thing you're describing, all in one minute, in a good mood, everything is great, and then depressed and mean the next. And I mean REALLY depressed, not necessarily in a clinical fashion, but I mean, feeling absolutely POWERless. And an MLC person would rather have a root canal than see a counselor. My h went through one starting in 2006 after some health issues and a couple of procedures, one of which traumatized both of us because of some issues of damage to his private parts from a stent. As an example of how in denial he was, he told me after confessing to infidelity that if he loved me, he wouldn't have ED. He got viagra but in time even that stopped working with OW. If it were me, i would have done whatever I needed to do to get healthy, but within two years, he had a girlfriend and I got the speech/bomb drop, I love you but I'm not in love with you. Hormones are all out of whack; testosterone levels start to drop (some men treat that with bio identical testosterone). In the case of my husband, his "feel good" chemicals in his brain just disappeared and have never returned. 

I suspect it was the birth of the last child that put your h over. MLC people come unglued when something happens to upset their lives in ways that require new routines, new responses, when they're already feeling overwhelmed and feel they're just barely managing. I could write a dissertation on MLC, but what I'm going to say is that you could benefit from reading up on it. There are lots of helpful sites on the internet. I would advise being cautious on the midlife club forum Login if you go there, because while it is really helpful, there are some princesses there who think they own the forum, but there are some really helpful people who post and you can find the good ones, and some good articles and descriptions/definitions of midlife crisis. A really good one, in time, once you've got the basics down, is The Hero's Spouse. The "Hero" doesn't mean the way we use, it means something for the author in terms of the classical view of the "hero," the valiant and decent person who meets tragedy. That summed up how I felt about my h's abrupt and seemingly overnight changes. 

There are all sorts of resources on the web, including some that celebrate MLC for men as a time of escaping the chokehold of routine and life and put all kinds of new agey spiritual spins on it and put all kinds of triumphalist BS into the equation of a weak man escaping his responsibilities. No matter what they say, the tendency in MLC is the same, for a MLC-er to find a new younger shinier partner, and justify it by blaming the problems in the marriage and blaming their unhappiness on their partner, but very often, they affair down. My h certainly did. Now, not ALL people facing a midlife transition or midlife crisis go off the rails; some manage it and keep their family intact. I don't know anyone who has done that, but I guess they are out there. 

And money? That's a big one. My h became a real tightwad when went into MLC. It is very common for MLC-ers who are having a difficult transition to be selfish with money. It gives them a temporary high to buy a new toy or they feel that they have been responsible and working to take care of other people and it is time for them to have their long-delayed fun. My h is also quick to open a new credit card or run up to the limit an existing one if he wants a toy, like a new gun or a scope or a box of targets. They become selfish about the resources and want to play, just like an adolescent with their allowance. 

These folks DO look they are reverting to their adolescence, and in many cases, it is true. There was some crack or some event or episode that delayed their advance through adolescence and into individuation as an adult, and they have been using coping mechanisms for their entire lives, and at a certain point in their lives, the facade begins to crack and they can't keep it in check. In my case it was the h's father's illness, a heart condition, that started when h was 12, they moved a lot in search of doctors, his father had the surgery when h was 15, and died as a result of an infection he picked up in the hospital three days after a successful procedure. And his mama wouldn't let the kids in, for three days, to see their father (she is a trip anyway, and again, typical FOO issues), h never got to say goodbye or hear his father say he loved him or was proud of him, so he had an overbearing controlling mama and his father was essentially absent for the 3 crucial years in his upbringing, only to disappear entirely. 

The advice on reputable MLC forums is much the same as here, which is to detach, take care of yourself, look after your interests, work on getting healthy and strong for you and your kids (and also for what might come in the form of abandonment and divorce). It's generally good to be civil to your h, as you've been doing, but you also know how to speak up and not take his crap, but set boundaries and don't have discussions about the relationship until you're ready to hear the answer, because if you push or press, they will run to escape the pressure. 

Your h telling you he wanted to be back and telling you he ended it, but still not being affectionate led me to believe not only that he was grieving the loss of his affair partner (although I was skeptical she was gone) and also the addiction, which is very very real, especially in MLC, and that if he has MLC issues, they remain, especially depression. Many, not all, MLC-ers go looking for band-aids for their depression and unhappiness, instead of working on their adolescent FOO (family of origin) issues. You will find that MLC forums advise AGAINST quickly filing for divorce in the heat of emotion and anger, but giving you time to sort your options, because in MLC, giving an ultimatum means you have to be ready for the response you get, and it is likely to be the one you DON'T want. In my case, my waited around until someone made the decision for him, so when OW gave him an ultimatum and told him to choose, and told him she wanted a commitment, he proposed to her (while still married to me) and then filed for divorce. 

He had filed 5 years ago and we met in my lawyer's office to arrive at an agreement and a consent decree for him to take to the court, and 6 hours later he showed up at my house and wanted to cancel the divorce. We did, but he has filed again after OW reached out just because she could. 

A generous way to see the situation is to see someone in real confusion and who has gotten themselves into a situation they don't know how to get out of. And of course when they start to have to deal with the same household issues with the OW, the appeal starts to wear off. My h has left his OW many times for a host of reasons, including the physical danger they pose to each other, but for reasons having to do with both their emotional development levels and their mutual mental health issues, they find their way back to the dysfunction and drama (which is what my h needs to feel alive in the midst of his horrible depression that he refuses to treat). My husband is a Peter Pan, and never expected to have to deal with all the issues of other mere mortals, like high blood pressure or heart problems, or prostate cancer. 

And FWIW, he told me he had no plans to leave me and marry the ho; he said he didn't want to financially invest in raising her kid or providing for her, all he wanted to do was fvck her. They rationalize their choices to cheat with the AP in the same way they rationalize their choices to blame us for the reason. But she had other plans, and will be surprised when the divorce is over to find that her assessment of the size of his truck and later his penis (which was beginning to stop working from the damage of the health issue and the inept treatment by a urologist) said something about the size of his retirement check. There won't be much of that left after his divorce is final and they're both in for a big wake up call. 

So see what you can find about MLC and see if any of that resonates with you. It may not, but it may. My h and I separated about six weeks after he confessed to infidelity and he got an apartment, which in ideal circumstances would have given him neutral ground to work on him and his issues and his depression, and while you don't have to make decisions about the future of your marriage immediately (you can put your marriage on the shelf for now while you organize your life for life on your own), you can have some peace and quiet from his split personality and get your equilibrium back. 

My goal was to have the fewest regrets possible and to buy time to maintain as much of a quality of life as I could compared to what we had, and also to get strong and lose the fear of losing him and our life together. My case was complicated by his bi polar and his incredible depression, and my fear of her ability to so easily manipulate and control him, which he happily shared with me and whipped up my concerns, perhaps in the hopes I'd hang on and not let go. He shared those concerns, as he worried she only wanted his money and would treat him badly as he aged. I believe that is true, and I am sure he does too, but why it doesn't motivate him to change is beyond me, unless, as Jim Conway says, sometimes MLC-ers punish themselves or abandon any hope of forgiveness and assume they deserve what they have coming to them in these disastrous relationships. My goal was for him to address his physical issues, which were several, and see if there was some improvement in his mental health. He HAS addressed his physical issues, some of which have arisen recently, but as a result of staring aging and mortality in the face, Peter Pan's depression has worsened and he is grumpy and antsocial and bitter about having nowhere to go to be the center of attention (another FOO issue - he joined the military at 19 and when he would come home, his siblings would sit and listen in rapt attention to the big brother and all his wonderful stories). But that's a subject for another day. There's healthy admiration and respect for a spouse, and then there's the grandiose needs of mental health issues, including narcissism, bi polar, and borderline personality, all of which may appear in a midlife crisis, in a person who was seemingly anything BUT mentally ill.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

After that absolutely obese post, let me just post this skinny one to say that the difference in MLC forums and advice on MLC from some Christian-based sources leave out the one the crucial thing you have arrived at, which is one of the best pieces of advice you will find on TAM: you DO have to lose the fear of losing your marriage and your life-style and find a way to put together a life without your h to move fully forward. I have watched on other forums as people married to a MLC person are absolutely petrified to have their life change, especially if they are stay at home Moms who haven't been in the work world for a long time. This creates a kind of neediness that just puts pressure on the wandering MLC spouse to want to run even further and faster. But eventually, even people following the advice of the religious forums that say stay the course and just look the other way and don't rock the boat have to face how to build a life when the MLC spouse files for a divorce and moves on with the AP. I was able, while I worked with my h on addressing his physical issues when he was home and led me to believe we were reconciling, to also build a life for myself because I work. 

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If he's still in love with OW, it's a fair bet he's still contacting her.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

scout76 said:


> ...He just acts completely uninterested in working on our marriage. He will do family time with the kids, but one-on-one time with me he seems to care less about.
> 
> ...I've tried to get him to go to counseling with me, to do a marriage devotion book with me, but he refuses.
> 
> ...


S76,

7-05-2015... "Consequences".

Hey, 6+ years in R with FWW, multiple LT-EAPA. One thing for sure... R with a WS is not for Sissies. IMO, the Status-Quo, lets it go, bump in-the-road approach R is low percentage option at best. 

It all goes back to Consequences... consequences mandate change and change in marriage under attack from infidelity is Paramount. 

*"I'm trying to be really patient. It just seems like I'm the only one who wants us to work."*

It's apparent you want your marriage to survive, but ultimately you cannot force a change in your H's attitude or nice him into happiness. I think your finally getting to the point... "I am willing to lose my marriage in order to save it." Damn, that's a extremely hard realization to come to, especially to the un-initiated. But, very true regardless.

Good luck, remember... Go Slow, Firm but Gentle, Stay the Course.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Get divorce papers ready and if you find they are sill at it serve him. Doesn't mean you have to go through with it but it should wake him up.

I would do full exposure if you haven't. He needs to see consequences of his actions.

I'd make it clear after you're finished with him he'll be living off dog food as he wont be able to afford anything else. I'd recommend Purina. Its cheap and has good vitamin and mineral content.

Serve him a bowl for breakfast see how he likes the flavor.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

turnera said:


> Wait, what? HE cheated, and HE refuses to go to MC?
> 
> Then you handled this wrong. You should have said "here's my list of requirements; if you won't do them, start packing because you don't belong here any more."
> 
> ...


*Let's just say that if he ever loses out on finding himself a permanent "squeeze" again, my rich, skanky XW would just simply adore him!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

The choice to keep hima round is entirely up to you. I fully understand you wanting to give him a second chance.

However unless you impose some real consequences for his actions you will one day end up back at square one. This i know for a fact.


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## scout76 (Jul 2, 2015)

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has commented on this thread and offered advice. After I made an appointment with a lawyer to seek a divorce this led to a huge argument during which I told my husband to completely break it off with OW or I was going to seek legal counsel. This was what it took for him to see that I meant business. As of July 3 he completely cut contact with her. We have been spending all these months working on us and our marriage, trying to pick up the pieces. I've been monitoring his phone and the phone records and there's been no contact that way. He is working days so hes not working with her anymore. He has seen her once since he quit talking to her, and she was very bitter and threatened his job if he ever talked to her again. I've only seen her once and she had the nerve to smile at me, but I ignored her and walked on. My husband and I are in such a good place now, able to heal and move on now that he's cut ties. He has been home every night, attentive and involvdd. His attitude is different. It is really like living with a different person, as if the man he was while he was having the affair was a terrible nightmare. I don't know if it was a mid life crisis or what, but he's over it and we've moved on. He has said several times that he doesn't know what he was thinking, that the whole thing was like an out of body experience, and that he doesn't remember most of it. He has thanked me many times for not giving up on him and our marriage and has apologized countless times. I'm think we are going to be okay, but I'm still taking it one day at a time. He knows I won't go through this again, that I won't stay if he does it again. Thank you so much for everyone's support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Thank you for letting us know. I'm glad he came to his senses.

And more proof that you have to be willing to lose your marriage, to save it.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

scout76 said:


> I just want to say thank you to everyone who has commented on this thread and offered advice. After I made an appointment with a lawyer to seek a divorce this led to a huge argument during which I told my husband to completely break it off with OW or I was going to seek legal counsel. This was what it took for him to see that I meant business. As of July 3 he completely cut contact with her. We have been spending all these months working on us and our marriage, trying to pick up the pieces. I've been monitoring his phone and the phone records and there's been no contact that way. He is working days so hes not working with her anymore. He has seen her once since he quit talking to her, and she was very bitter and threatened his job if he ever talked to her again. I've only seen her once and she had the nerve to smile at me, but I ignored her and walked on. My husband and I are in such a good place now, able to heal and move on now that he's cut ties. He has been home every night, attentive and involvdd. His attitude is different. It is really like living with a different person, as if the man he was while he was having the affair was a terrible nightmare. I don't know if it was a mid life crisis or what, but he's over it and we've moved on. He has said several times that he doesn't know what he was thinking, that the whole thing was like an out of body experience, and that he doesn't remember most of it. He has thanked me many times for not giving up on him and our marriage and has apologized countless times. I'm think we are going to be okay, but I'm still taking it one day at a time. He knows I won't go through this again, that I won't stay if he does it again. Thank you so much for everyone's support.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I highly recommend a comprehensive recovery program like the one we went through www.affairrecovery.com

It helped us tremendously.

THEN we followed it up with individual counseling for around six months and then followed up that with several months of marriage counseling. It takes at least 2 - 5 years to recover or longer depending on many variables, but that is the average.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Scout
> I don't know if it was a mid-life crisis or what, but he's over it and we've moved on


.
Some call it a mid-life crises but I call it a twisted mind that cops out and will sacrifice a family for his selfishness.




> He has seen her once since he quit talking to her, and she was very bitter and threatened his job if he ever talked to her again


Where is all that love that they talked about? Real love wants the best for the other person but your husband got to see just a glimpse of what perverted love is; “she threatened his job”




> After I made an appointment with a lawyer to seek a divorce…….
> This was what it took for him to see that I meant business. As of July 3 he completely cut contact with her.


When a person allows themselves to get a twisted mind with selfishness they usually will not listen to reason or compassion from the other spouse. Sometimes it takes CONSEQUENCES that hits them personally. You noticed that he did not completely cut it off with her until he knew he was going to have to deal with the lawyer.


Scout76
I am thrilled that he has made a turn for the betterment of the family. I hope that he has learned his lesson and does everything to improve the whole family. However, as I said in a previous post 
*“Build yourself up, this may take years, but get into the position that you can support yourself. Also, work on your emotions so that you do not crumble but get stronger so that you demand respect.”*


I am not saying that he will do his betrayal again; I’m saying that with you doing the above you will be in much better shape to deal with him no matter which way he goes. *It is a win-win!*


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