# FIL Makes Me a Little Uncomfortable...



## hannah77 (Sep 14, 2014)

My FIL is 73 years old and I generally have a good relationship with him. My H's parents have been divorced for 25 years and he never remarried so he is a single man.

He's a nice guy and all, but some stuff he does makes me a bit uncomfortable.

When I met him for the first time 6 years ago, I walked into his home and he was watching TV. I was expecting him to turn the TV off but he left it on. There was some show on where college aged girls were dancing around in cheerleader uniforms and he was STARING at it like he'd never seen women before. He even missed some things I said to him because these women had all his attention. I felt like that was really rude.

I am a relatively thin, busty/curvy woman. One time when my H was out with him a curvy woman in some revealing clothing (she might have been a high class prostitute according to my H) walked by and he joked "oh was that Hannah?" My H laid into him for that and he hasn't made any jokes about my body since, at least not that I know of. 

I also noticed after this incident my H has asked me to cover up my body around his dad. But then again, he asks me to do that around every man so I don't know if this has anything to do with his dad or not.

The other day my FIL was telling us about his massage and was bragging about the "hot young thing" touching him. I found this so odd and it made me feel uncomfortable so I left the room casually. He even joked that his friend got "stuck" with the "old lady"

My H and I are also very conservative about our interaction with members of the opposite sex. My H's father took him out to a Hooter's type restaurant and my H demanded to leave immediately because he knows that I would not be ok with this but it makes me uncomfortable that, knowing this about our relationship, his FIL took him there anyway. He even said that my H was being "absurd" and it "wasn't cheating."

He also encourages my husband to lightly flirt/talk with other women, or asks him about other young women they see while out together and wants to talk about how attractive they are. My H says he just ignores him or holds up his left hand and reminds his dad he's married but his dad says stuff like "you can still look" and "it's just talking"

I don't think my H's father would ever encourage him to have sex with other women or anything like that. But his behavior makes me uncomfortable.

While my H agrees that some of the stuff his dad does is unacceptable, he sees any comment I make about his dad to be such a huge insult. His dad is like his hero so it hurts me to point out these "flaws" if you can even call them that. Then he will just immaturely attack something about my dad. So nothing ever gets resolved.

Is there anything I can do, or should I just leave it alone? These uncomfortable moments only happen once in a while anyway. Most of the time I'm around his dad everything is fine, it's just once in a while.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Hannah, you FIL sounds like my FIL and I too am uncomfortable with it. I personally understand your feelings towards this man. I have nothing to do with my FIL for many of the same type comments and behavior from my husband's father, the man is 86 and his wife died several years back.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

No, there is nothing you can do. Leave it alone and limit your time around him. Your husband knows his father's faults and doesn't need you reminding him.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

hannah77 said:


> My H's father took him out to a Hooter's type restaurant and my H demanded to leave immediately because he knows that I would not be ok with this


You wouldn't be ok with your husband going to a Hooter's type restaurant?

That's not ok.

So what your husband's dad's a pervert and his son doesn't know how to control his boundaries. He seems like he's got a reasonably good handle on good old dad and life expectancy for a man nowadays is around 75 so hang in there.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Hooter's is a hoot. Girls walking around in short-shorts which are constantly being yanked out of the crack of their butt and leaning over to try to show their limited assets. Wouldn't eat there just because of the hygiene factor but it is fun to grab a beer & watch the show.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your FIL didn't grow up in your politically correct world. If you could go back in time to 1940 or 1950, you'd probably think most men were sexists. While he has been hanging around on this planet, his world has changed a lot around him. He's an old dude and he won't be in your world all that much longer. You aren't going to change him so you might as well get to know him and like him as he is. Here's a little secret. All these modern metrosexual guys who seem to not notice women still do. They just aren't obvious about it. Your husband appreciates looking at Hooter's girls just like his Neanderthal ancestors would. He's just been taught to hide it. Your FIL is old, alone, and on his downhill slide. If he gets a little thrill out of seeing some young thing on TV, who's being harmed? If the Good Lord wills, someday you will be old and your actions and words will seem odd or inappropriate to those half your age...and you probably won't care. Don't be trying to change old people. You can't do it and it'd be a shame if you could. Guys look at girls. Young ones do, old ones do, religious types do, Progressive types who have been Liberals all their lives do. This old guy just either hasn't learned to conceal that fact or he's too old to care what others think.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

The old man is single and loves hot women. OMG! What a disaster! Call the police!


----------



## AlisonBlaire (Feb 5, 2015)

My own father would have classified that behavior as immature, and not something that a grown man would have needed to indulge in. To me, it seems like your FIL has problems with boundaries, but it seems like your husband has your back.


----------



## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

I caught my 76 y/o father checking out my then-33 y/o SOs ass at Thanksgiving dinner....

Boys will be boys...


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

AlisonBlaire said:


> My own father would have classified that behavior as immature, and not something that a grown man would have needed to indulge in. To me, it seems like your FIL has problems with boundaries, but it seems like your husband has your back.


I'm sure you're right. He also would have been looking, too.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You harping on your husband because of his father will get you nowhere. Just drop it. 

His father has not done any thing to actually hurt you. So if you are uncomfortable around him, just limit your time around him.

He's probably not going to be around much longer. Don't make your husband's last few years with his father a miserable time.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You harping on your husband because of his father will get you nowhere. Just drop it.
> 
> His father has not done any thing to actually hurt you. So if you are uncomfortable around him, just limit your time around him.
> 
> He's probably not going to be around much longer. Don't make your husband's last few years with his father a miserable time.


I'm not excusing how the OP's FIL acts. I'm just asking for a little compassion for the geezers among us. We see young life all around us, and we know that that is finished for us. It seems very sad, but we have had life and now it is mostly behind us.

So at times geezers become a bit inappropriate. That's very different than actually physically bothering anyone. That is inexcusable.

And yes, I'm a geezer too. How do you think I know what geezerhood is like?


----------



## AlisonBlaire (Feb 5, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> I'm sure you're right. He also would have been looking, too.


He probably would look, but would not blather on about that subject.  Oh geez, if my dad were still here, he'd still be asking me what channel CSI was on every week. LOL

OP, how often do you mention these things that your FIL has said or done to your husband? I wonder if your husband feels like he has to choose between you and his father sometimes, and that is why he might be snapping at you when you talk to him.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The old guy is behaving as an actual, authentic male and he is one of the last men in the U.S. who know what that's like. He never attended a gender sensitivity class just as Dean Martin and Sinatra never did.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> The old guy is behaving as an actual, authentic male and he is one of the last men in the U.S. who know what that's like. He never attended a gender sensitivity class just as Dean Martin and Sinatra never did.


Don't idealize the Good Old Days (tm). The FIL was there and so was I and they were not the golden days of alpha males.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

sidney2718 said:


> Don't idealize the Good Old Days (tm). The FIL was there and so was I and they were not the golden days of alpha males.


It beat the hell out of what we have, now.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> The old guy is behaving as an actual, authentic male and he is one of the last men in the U.S. who know what that's like. He never attended a gender sensitivity class just as Dean Martin and Sinatra never did.


The old man is 75. I'm 66. He's not much older than me really. There is a very high probability that if he worked for a living that he has attended gender sensitivity classes and has a clue about these sorts of things.

While I think she needs to give the old guy some slack, I would also not call him "an actual, authentic male and he is one of the last men in the U.S". Why? Because I've known a lot of men a lot older and a lot younger than this guy and they would not put their son's wife in an uncomfortable situation. They know better. They are no obnoxious bores and have some class.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> It beat the hell out of what we have, now.


Nonsense. There are lots of good men out there now. It's so easy to look at the younger generation and bad mouth them. But it's nonsense.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> The old man is 75. I'm 66. He's not much older than me really. There is a very high probability that if he worked for a living that he has attended gender sensitivity classes and has a clue about these sorts of things.
> 
> While I think she needs to give the old guy some slack, I would also not call him "an actual, authentic male and he is one of the last men in the U.S". Why? Because I've known a lot of men a lot older and a lot younger than this guy and they would not put their son's wife in an uncomfortable situation. They know better. They are no obnoxious bores and have some class.


A tuna sandwich makes some people uncomfortable these days. The man was watching TV and he wanted to have a little guy time with his adult son at Hooter's. 

If we adopt the position that we have to adjust fire every time someone feels uncomfortable we won't be able to say or do anything before long. People are authorized to not approve of what we say or do. If a wife is not deliriously thrilled 100% of the time, the world will still turn.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Nonsense. There are lots of good men out there now. It's so easy to look at the younger generation and bad mouth them. But it's nonsense.


Which explains why almost 90% can't qualify to be a Private in the Army, why their grandmothers are working at WalMart to keep groceries on the table, and why our illegitimacy rate is growing so rapidly, and why the male labor force participation rate has dropped for every age category under the age of 55 and has risen for every category thereafter. There aren't lots of good men these days. There are some and they are becoming fewer. If you are lucky enough to have one, you should drop to your knees and give thanks daily.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

May I offer a different perspective?

I don't think it is that men should never look at women and should be browbeat by women into feeling ashamed.

Neither do I think it has to be that women have to accept however a man looks at her because "men".

I think it has to do with respecting another's space. If the way I am interacting with another human being is causing them undue comfort, I have to ask if my personal desire should trump them feeling uncomfortable. If I meet a person who is missing half of their upper left arm and I consciously stare at it it may make them comfortable. No one is deciding if I have the right to do so and no one can control if I choose to do so. But I can see that I may be making that person feel that I am choosing to focus intently on such a thing that I am no longer looking at THEM. I can say: "I am a human being and it is only natural that it is my curiosity. Don't try to browbeat me into some PC unseeing being". 

In all instances, if I were to meet someone with a disability, the truth is that I will probably take a few more seconds checking that out that someone who did not. The person who has the disability will probably see me lingering for a few extra seconds but also see that I chose not to focus intently on it. 

What I take a bit of umbrage is not that no one should ever take notice and stare, but that if the other is feeling uncomfortable, that we must not ask ourselves if we should tone it down because our desire trumps theirs. I don't think any trumping of interests should go on in either direction. I think men can stare, and women can say, "This is crossing a line" without either side saying "Well it's my right to 

1. Continue to ogle and say sexual words despite the fact that you have voiced your discomfort or
2. It's my right to tell you how sexual you should be and you should feel shame for have the instinctual urge.

Another truth is that I love that men are visual creatures. I love that if I wear short shorts, my SO is going to stare. I dabble in and out of pin up culture. That's all about the gaze and being flirty. I don't ever want men to stop being men. I also do not want to ever be shamed for opening my mouth and saying "That's enough now."


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> Which explains why almost 90% can't qualify to be a Private in the Army, why their grandmothers are working at WalMart to keep groceries on the table, and why our illegitimacy rate is growing so rapidly, and why the male labor force participation rate has dropped for every age category under the age of 55 and has risen for every category thereafter. There aren't lots of good men these days. There are some and they are becoming fewer. If you are lucky enough to have one, you should drop to your knees and give thanks daily.


Proto-Knowledge: What is wrong with young people today? - A view from the past.

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
(From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I find it interesting that the guy is getting a pass because he's in his 70's, and nothing more.

Change this to a thread about her husbands friend, and we'd be having a very different discussion.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I didn't read anything in her post about him ogling her. She had a problem with him looking at TV (and ignoring her). She had a problem with him wanting to go to Hooter's and encouraging his son to do a little flirting. He allegedly made some half-a$$ comment, comparing her figure to that of another woman's (when the OP wasn't even around). Just a guy being a guy, not a perv, not a creep, just a genuine guy who isn't eaten up with PC foolishness. The only thing that had to do with her at all was the comment and her husband handled it. Why he had to run home and report that to her, I can't explain.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I didn't read anything in her post about him ogling her. She had a problem with him looking at TV (and ignoring her). She had a problem with him wanting to go to Hooter's and encouraging his son to do a little flirting. He allegedly made some half-a$$ comment, comparing her figure to that of another woman's (when the OP wasn't even around). Just a guy being a guy, not a perv, not a creep, just a genuine guy who isn't eaten up with PC foolishness. The only thing that had to do with her at all was the comment and her husband handled it. Why he had to run home and report that to her, I can't explain.


Gee, it is ok for a wife to go out and do a "little flirting"? 

Or is it only ok for a husband to do this?


I think that her FIL encouraging her husband to go out and do a little bit of flirting has a lot to do with the OP.

.
.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

The good thing is that OP's husband is his own man who has his own set of rules of conduct and will not tolerate anyone, not even his father, to force him to compromise them.

The old coot's life revolves around nothing more than passing gas and rigor mortis gawking at hot young women on tv or at restaurants. The man is not a living nuclear bomb waiting to explode and plunge humanity back to the palaeolithic era.


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

He's 75 years old and has been single for 25 years, he has spent a lot of time fantasizing about women but probably hasn't had sex in all those years, and probably can't at this point. As an old guy living alone for so long he's losing site of social manners and boundaries. 

Regardless, how about just giving the guy a hug once in awhile? And I'm only half joking.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> The good thing is that OP's husband is his own man who has his own set of rules of conduct and will not tolerate anyone, not even his father, to force him to compromise them.
> 
> The old coot's life revolves around nothing more than passing gas and rigor mortis gawking at hot young women on tv or at restaurants. The man is not a living nuclear bomb waiting to explode and plunge humanity back to the palaeolithic era.


Thanks Dogbert. 

I also think if the OP sets up her own personal boundaries more, she will feel better. It seems her husband is not compromising his values either. So to the OP, enforce boundaries by walking out of the room, disengaging him, or saying something when you feel he is ogling you. I think that will make you feel more in control. You aren't going to change your FIL, but that doesn't mean you have to sit around and just accept behavior towards you, you do not appreciate. 

That goes for any situation, not just this nuclear bomb exploding humanity and plunging us to the paleolithic era.

Or for women emasculating men so thoroughly with their boundaries that they enslave the men's grandmas to Walmart.

Regardless. I think if you don't appreciate behavior, you have a right to enforce the rules towards yourself without justifying it on a whole society level or expecting everyone else to do the same. 

For example, I had a Muslim friend who did not allow men to shake her hand. Did she have to go to men and women's psychology to justify this? No. Neither did she expect everyone else to do so. She decided that for her faith, she was going to enforce that. 

You can decide that when your FIL says something about your body you can say something back without even worrying about men and women's psychology or expecting everyone else to agree with you. Just do it because for your own boundaries it is going to work.


----------



## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't see what is so concerning. I was expecting some kind of inappropriate touching or something. So he watches TV and gawks at other women. That makes him like 99% of other men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

The old coot is like a zombie but instead of brains he's after boobs.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

For the folks that think this is no big deal, look up the case of Jessica Padgett. 

To the OP, I'd just make sure you're never, ever alone with him. Ya never know.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

So one case indicts all men?


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> So one case indicts all men?


Not at all what I said, or think. But I'm sure nobody in Jessica's family thought her step dad was going to shoot her in the head simply to have sex with her dead body. Evil exists....even if nothing to this depraved level would happen.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Not at all what I said, or think. But I'm sure nobody in Jessica's family thought her step dad was going to shoot her in the head simply to have sex with her dead body. Evil exists....even if nothing to this depraved level would happen.


Sadly the world has and will continue to have vile creatures. Sometimes their victims have no inkling of the danger that they are in until it's too late and sadly pay the price.

Speaking of vile creatures, yesterday I watched a case where a spoiled adult woman had one of her sons kill her father because he was tired of subsidizing her lavish lifestyle. She and her son only served 12 years in prison for the murder of her father. What should be the take away of this case story?

Until the OP comes back and comments that her father in law has started to molest her when her husband is not around and expresses fear of that situation, I'll continue to view her father in law as an uncooth but harmless old coot.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

jd08 said:


> I don't see what is so concerning. I was expecting some kind of inappropriate touching or something. So he watches TV and gawks at other women. That makes him like 99% of other men.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't speak for the OP, but I think what makes her uncomfortable is that her father-in-law is like this when she's around, and encourages his son, her husband, to be like that as well. I also think there's a certain "ick" factor because it's father and son.

Look, this type of behaviour, while not abhorrent, is uncomfortable to many people. I would be uncomfortable if my MIL acted like this around me, or insisted on bringing my wife to a chippendales show or something (especially against her will).

I've seen posts here that are VERY similar, except instead of being a 75 year old FIL, it's a husbands or wifes friend (or friends). The overwhelming majority of responses are negative, and they generally say the same thing - time to ditch these friends; they're crossing marital boundaries; it creates temptation, etc.

I mean if I came on here and said my wife has this friend who's always ogling guys, making comments, encouraging my wife to loosen up and flirt a bit and bringing her places that made HER feel uncomfortable, I (and probably my wife) would be labelled a doormat and to properly honor boundaries, put my (our) foot down, etc. No?


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

alexm said:


> I can't speak for the OP, but I think what makes her uncomfortable is that her father-in-law is like this when she's around, and encourages his son, her husband, to be like that as well. I also think there's a certain "ick" factor because it's father and son.
> 
> Look, this type of behaviour, while not abhorrent, is uncomfortable to many people. I would be uncomfortable if my MIL acted like this around me, or insisted on bringing my wife to a chippendales show or something (especially against her will).
> 
> ...


The OP's husband has supported his wife by putting his foot down and calling out his dad on his efforts to have him behave disrespectful to his wife and other women in general. In the situations you cite, the wife or husband is too nice to call his/her friend out and places the friendship along the same level as the marriage. That is not the case here.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Half of the men who find this old guy's conduct so reprehensible are going home, hiding in the dark like frightened 12 year olds, and pleasuring themselves over internet porn. This old guy is attracted to women just as he was designed to be. The lion doesn't pretend to be a goat. The tiger isn't ashamed to behave like a tiger. Why do we expect that adult males pretend to not notice women? The SWAT team doesn't get called if a gay man acts gay. Guys like girls. There's nothing "ick" about that. It's how all of us managed to be born.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

There is nothing "manly" about a grown man acting like a teen-ager who hasn't learned that other people deserve respect. Treating another person's body like it is something you are entitled to stare at, comment on, or touch, is simply animal-like. Except even male animals walk away when the female shows she isn't interested. 

OP, your H seems to be doing a decent job limiting his dad's impact. He cannot control his dad's behavior, and while it is highly offensive, your H is doing what he can to protect you from it. The only other thing you could do-and this may or may not be advisable, only you can decide--is have a direct conversation with your FIL, stating your boundaries and the consequence for if he ignores them. 

I think the bigger issue here is that you and H do not seem to trust each other. You both seem to think adults cannot be trusted around attractive people of the opposite sex. FIL just feeds this distrust, which I think is why you are so uncomfortable.


----------



## HHB (Nov 21, 2014)

The ageism and gender bias in this post is horrifying. If any of the slurs and gross stereotypes had been directed toward the member of an ethnic group or toward a woman instead of an older white man, they would properly be called racism or mysogeny. Shame on you. Judgmentalism is ugly no matter who it is directed against.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> Half of the men who find this old guy's conduct so reprehensible are going home, hiding in the dark like frightened 12 year olds, and pleasuring themselves over internet porn. This old guy is attracted to women just as he was designed to be. The lion doesn't pretend to be a goat. The tiger isn't ashamed to behave like a tiger. Why do we expect that adult males pretend to not notice women? The SWAT team doesn't get called if a gay man acts gay. Guys like girls. There's nothing "ick" about that. It's how all of us managed to be born.


If the old coot actually liked women, his behavior would be one of attracting them, not repulsing them. I suspect that he would be lost or scared if an attractive woman actually paid attention to him. He acts more like a pubescent teenage boy than a man.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> If the old coot actually liked women, his behavior would be one of attracting them, not repulsing them. I suspect that he would be lost or scared if an attractive woman actually paid attention to him. He acts more like a pubescent teenage boy than a man.


I like looking at a Ferrari. Doesn't mean I can afford one, that I need one, that I want one, or that one isn't likely to kill me. I like going to see bands. I don't own one or have one living in my house. I like seeing elephants. I don't want one. So what, if you believe the old guy acts like a pubescent boy? It's his life and I don't suppose he cares what you think. What are you going to do to him? Make him old? 

People really should realize that they are authorized to feel offended. Their feelings of offense don't place a burden on anyone else.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> There is nothing "manly" about a grown man acting like a teen-ager who hasn't learned that other people deserve respect. Treating another person's body like it is something you are entitled to stare at, comment on, or touch, is simply animal-like. Except even male animals walk away when the female shows she isn't interested.
> 
> OP, your H seems to be doing a decent job limiting his dad's impact. He cannot control his dad's behavior, and while it is highly offensive, your H is doing what he can to protect you from it. The only other thing you could do-and this may or may not be advisable, only you can decide--is have a direct conversation with your FIL, stating your boundaries and the consequence for if he ignores them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> I like looking at a Ferrari. Doesn't mean I can afford one, that I need one, that I want one, or that one isn't likely to kill me. I like going to see bands. I don't own one or have one living in my house. I like seeing elephants. I don't want one. So what, if you believe the old guy acts like a pubescent boy? It's his life and I don't suppose he cares what you think. What are you going to do to him? Make him old?


Yet if I went to a Ferrari dealership and hung around the cars and started bad mouthing them, do you think that the dealership management would simply ignore me?

I don't give a crap what the ol' [email protected] thinks. I only bring this up because you defended his behavior as being manly and which I respectfully disagree.



> People really should realize that they are authorized to feel offended. Their feelings of offense don't place a burden on anyone else.


No quite. If an individual is engaging in lewd behavior, he/she could be charged with disorderly conduct. He/She can't hide under freedom of expression.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

The problem isn't the father-in-law ogling women. Right or wrong on that is a matter of opinion. The problem is that he's encouraging his son to do the same. The father-in-law obviously doesn't believe it's cheating, while the original poster does. The big question is, what does the husband involved think? It seems like the poster is worried that if he hangs out around his father too much, the not-cheating opinion will start to take over, and they'll get into some marital problems.

So talk to the husband. Find out if he thinks it's cheating, and if so, what he's going to do about his dad's behaviour. If he doesn't think it's cheating, find out what he's going to do about his marriage.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> It beat the hell out of what we have, now.


No, it doesn't. But I'm not going any further in thread-jacking.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Which explains why almost 90% can't qualify to be a Private in the Army, why their grandmothers are working at WalMart to keep groceries on the table, and why our illegitimacy rate is growing so rapidly, and why the male labor force participation rate has dropped for every age category under the age of 55 and has risen for every category thereafter. There aren't lots of good men these days. There are some and they are becoming fewer. If you are lucky enough to have one, you should drop to your knees and give thanks daily.


Fact check: Our illegitimacy rate is dropping, not rising. And labor force participation has fallen off since the start of the Great "Recession". We are not recovered from it yet.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

sidney2718 said:


> Fact check: Our illegitimacy rate is dropping, not rising. And labor force participation has fallen off since the start of the Great "Recession". We are not recovered from it yet.


In some ways, the original post is the best post we have on TAM. I have not stopped cracking up over "grandmas working at Walmart" for days now.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> Yet if I went to a Ferrari dealership and hung around the cars and started bad mouthing them, do you think that the dealership management would simply ignore me?
> 
> I don't give a crap what the ol' [email protected] thinks. I only bring this up because you defended his behavior as being manly and which I respectfully disagree.
> 
> ...


As I stated before in a very grammatically incorrect post.

It's not that men can't be sexual, attracted to women, or even make comments. 

But if it is making someone else feel very uncomfortable, the thing to do is not to go on unchanged with your behavior just because "Freedom of Speech" And "I'm a man"

There is a balance inbetween everything. We shouldn't go changing who we are because it makes people uncomfortable, but we should ask if our desires trumps others desires to feel comfortable. I don't think either one has to be trumped.

A common ground can be made,

He can go on watching porn, making lewd comments and so on.

But stop when the OP is there!

He hasn't changed who he is.

But he respects an important relationship in his life.

Similarly, the OP can go on being offended by whatever she wants, 

But instead of trying to change who that person IS, she can remove herself from the situation or ask the person to stop when around her. SO they are changing not WHO they are but there behavior when she is around.

That way, neither person has to change who they are, what they are comfortable with or their manliness and womanliness. But they also learn how to act like adults around others which includes understanding that others will not agree with everything about you. In those cases, you don't change you, but you may change your behavior to respect the other.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Guess we're going to have to just disagree. In our modern world, people get offended over anything and everything. I would much prefer to be occasionally offended and live in an honest world than to exist offense-free in a dishonest one where people walked on egg shells in a never-ending attempt to avoid being who they really are. 
Nobody has been elected to the position of Manners Sheriff for the purpose of teaching their parents or grandparents how to behave. Their world was not as violent as our's. They weren't bombarded with sexual imagery to the extent we are. Elementary school teachers in their world almost never had sex with a student. They didn't listen to music with lyrics about raping women or killing cops. We don't sit on any moral high ground to be preaching morality or civility to our parents or grandparents.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> Guess we're going to have to just disagree. In our modern world, people get offended over anything and everything. I would much prefer to be occasionally offended and live in an honest world than to exist offense-free in a dishonest one where people walked on egg shells in a never-ending attempt to avoid being who they really are.
> Nobody has been elected to the position of Manners Sheriff for the purpose of teaching their parents or grandparents how to behave. Their world was not as violent as our's. They weren't bombarded with sexual imagery to the extent we are. Elementary school teachers in their world almost never had sex with a student. They didn't listen to music with lyrics about raping women or killing cops. We don't sit on any moral high ground to be preaching morality or civility to our parents or grandparents.


I actually do agree with you in some ways. I think the effect of the constant stimulation on the internet, phones, tv and the messages of advertisements affect youth more than we realize. I also do believe that culture affects us as a whole.

But I disagree with how one-sided your view is. There has been research to suggest that this generation's values match up with those of their great-grandparents and those of the Great Depression more.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> The old guy is behaving as an actual, authentic male and he is one of the last men in the U.S. who know what that's like. He never attended a gender sensitivity class just as Dean Martin and Sinatra never did.


You mean they were old sleazy and rude back then?


----------



## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Give me a break!!! It seems people come here complaining about every little thing that goes on, if that's the worst of your problems I'd thank you're lucky stars!


----------



## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I took my son to Hooters for his 16th birthday (he is so very shy and quiet.) We had a lot of fun! I even got the girls to take a picture with him. And I'm the mom. 

I"ve felt a little awkward around some of the older men in my life....my own uncle got very drunk one time a few years ago and grabbed my face with both his hands and sarted pulling me in for a kiss once. FREAKED ME OUT, but luckily, before I squirmed away I managed to turn my head and he planted it on my cheek. Only time in my entire life that has happened from him. My exbf's dad would get drunk occasionally and do something similar. Both people would NEVER and have NEVER done anything like that sober, so I just chalked it up to drunken times and the tremendous love they have/had for me. (Yes, that's what I"m telling myself.....absolutely! LOL!)

I dunno, being conservative is great. But not being conservativeis great too. If you don't like the ole guy looking at chicks, don't hang around him. *shrug*


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

WandaJ said:


> You mean they were old sleazy and rude back then?


Watch some old movies from the 1940s. Watch some TV from the 60s and maybe 70s. You will see guys acting like guys. Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin weren't shy about behaving like heterosexual males and nobody gasped or called the SWAT team or called them sleazy or rude. You characterize this guy as rude or sleazy because he wanted to go to Hooter's or because he liked seeing pretty cheerleaders? He wasn't touching anyone or exposing himself. Hooters hires attractive women and puts them in tiny outfits for a reason. Women are reading "Fifty Shades of Gray" because they aren't interested in sex? I've been working with soldiers and cops almost my entire life. These guys are the salt of the earth but they do like attractive women. They are supposed to. They are men. It's a shame they have to pretend otherwise or that they are made to feel guilty for being what God made them.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

GA HEART said:


> I took my son to Hooters for his 16th birthday (he is so very shy and quiet.) We had a lot of fun! I even got the girls to take a picture with him. And I'm the mom.
> 
> I"ve felt a little awkward around some of the older men in my life....my own uncle got very drunk one time a few years ago and grabbed my face with both his hands and sarted pulling me in for a kiss once. FREAKED ME OUT, but luckily, before I squirmed away I managed to turn my head and he planted it on my cheek. Only time in my entire life that has happened from him. My exbf's dad would get drunk occasionally and do something similar. Both people would NEVER and have NEVER done anything like that sober, so I just chalked it up to drunken times and the tremendous love they have/had for me. (Yes, that's what I"m telling myself.....absolutely! LOL!)
> 
> I dunno, being conservative is great. But not being conservativeis great too. If you don't like the ole guy looking at chicks, don't hang around him. *shrug*


Whatever your age, just grabbing folks or touching them against their will is out of line. I suspect if this old guy hadn't been drunk he wouldn't have. THAT was rude and creepy. Just going to Hooter's isn't, in my estimation.


----------

