# Wife is reconsidering us, and I'm a complete wreck about it



## Gerrard

Hi all

I’m having a really difficult time right now, and need some advice and opinions.

I’ve been married to my wife for 2 and a half years. We’ve been together for 6 years. I’m 29, she’s 32. 

Recently we’ve had a few issues in the bedroom, with me wanting it more, and feeling that she wasn’t really that keen, although it’s still been pretty compatible. More recently she’s had some health issues, and had a major abdominal operation 3 weeks ago to rid her of endometriosis. This has left her in bed for the past 3 weeks, and only going back to work this week. 

We’d reached a point in our marriage where we were looking at houses, and next year starting a family. We’d pretty much agreed on where we were heading. 

She’s been acting out over the last 2 months and mentioning lack of intimacy, how she doesn’t lust me etc. I thought it would pass. But I noticed last week how she’d stopped sending me house options to look at. I was worried about what this meant, so I dug deeper with her on the issue, and then she hit me with a massive bombshell. She said that she was reconsidering stuff, and wasn’t sure any more. That she’s come to realise that she really loves me, but has never really felt a deep lust or real physical attraction to me. She said she needs to take a while to think things over. She may see a therapist about this. 

This shook me like you won’t believe. It was also incredibly perplexing. I mean, I have my flaws like everyone, but I’ve been a pretty perfect husband. I’m a good looking guy (if I have to say so myself  ). In terms of our marriage, I think it’s good. We’re good companions, we fight rarely. We laugh together, have similar interests and kind of ‘get’ each other. The physical attraction thing hurts, but when you put it up against all the positive aspects of us, surely its something she can look past? We’re ok in the bedroom. Compatible, if slightly measured and unspontaneous. But for me that’s not such a bad thing when you’ve been together for 6 years. Things naturally fade a bit. I’ll be the first to admit maybe I got a bit complacent and stopped doing the little romantic things. But I’ve realised that and I’m keen to fix it. 

She’s had partners in the past. Probably around 6 sexual partners. So she’s been through that phase. For me on the other hand, she’s the only person I’ve ever properly been with. It’s a slight issue for me, but I’ve made peace with it, purely because I’m happy to be with her. She’s my one, and that’s ok for me. I love her incredibly. My gut feel is that we’ll probably end up being ok, but the relationship is suddenly up in the air and anything is possible. 

I need some advice, because I’m a wreck and don’t know what to do.

Firstly, her decision might take months. I’m a wreck. In bits. How am I supposed to function properly over the period? There’s a constant knot in my stomach. This is my wife. The woman I built my life around, she’s my everything. If I lose her it would destroy me. 

Secondly, is there anything I can do over this period to make it better in some way? How do I act around her. If I go crazy at the gym and make myself look better (I already have a decent body) will it make a difference? How can I make her want me and realise I’m the one without a doubt?

Really need help because I’m going up the wall.


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## Tobyboy

Have you ruled out an affair? 
Maybe a little verification is in order.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam

Gerrard said:


> I need some advice, because I’m a wreck and don’t know what to do. *Firstly, her decision might take months.* I’m a wreck. In bits. How am I supposed to function properly over the period? There’s a constant knot in my stomach. This is my wife. The woman I built my life around, *she’s my everything. If I lose her it would destroy me.*


I agree with Toby. Have you ruled out an affair?

First of all, you should not sit back in fear, waiting and floundering while SHE takes her sweet time making a decision. Secondly, stop putting yourself in a position where she is your "everything" and you will be "destroyed" without her. No one deserves to be put on such a high pedestal, least of all someone who is jerking your emotions around. Start the 180 right now. If you don't know what it is, here is the list and a brief explanation: (the 180 might seem counterintuitive at first when all you want to do is beg and plead for her to stay. But you can't "nice" her into staying. The more you beg, the less attractive you are to her. Read this list over and over until it starts to make sense.)

This list is titled “The 180″ and it won’t take you long to figure out why. What you are actually doing is a complete 180 degree rotation in your actions and attitude. *You no longer are a weeping sack of sorrow. Suddenly, you appear strong, happy, independent, and quite capable of making it on your own.*

*The 180 is about protecting yourself. It’s about finding yourself. It’s about enjoying who you are without the other person. It’s about not getting sucked into unnecessary drama. These are all healthy steps no matter if you ultimately stay together or go your own ways.*

The 180

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.​


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## Gerrard

Toby and Happy as a clam: 

I don't think a proper affair is happening, but reading around certain message boards and articles, it seems that there are clear signs with her pointing that way. If true, I don't think she's full on cheating. I think there is however the posibility of her having met someone who she is excited about and does actually want physically, but its made her question her whole marriage.

Thanks for the list. Great points. Its very very easy to play the victim and say things like, 'please dont do this', 'dont ruin my life'. On the day she broke this to me I said things like that, but you're right, I have to be stronger.


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## Gerrard

Is it ok to ask her straight, but calmly, whether there is another person she has met?


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## happy as a clam

You can certainly ask, but you will likely not get a straight answer. No one wants to admit that they are "two-timing."

Much better to do a little detective work first, just the basics. Do you have access to her cell phone records, her actual phone, Facebook or social media accounts? Are all of these items password-protected? Does she ever let her phone out of her sight? 

Is she buying new clothes, changing her hairstyle, losing weight? I realize she was sick recently, but you just never can tell what someone might be up to.

It's up to you how to proceed, but personally I would want to know the answer to the question before I ever asked it. If she has met someone, once you ask, she will take it underground and make it next to impossible for you to find out the truth.

Start working on the 180. You will feel much better about yourself no matter which way this thing goes.

Best of luck to you...


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## Machiavelli

Gerrard said:


> Is it ok to ask her straight, but calmly, whether there is another person she has met?


You can, but she'll deny it and beat you up for thinking she's that kind of girl. Even if she just walked in from a tryst with OM and his best friend. Even girls who can't lie about anything else, can lie about this one thing. It's genetic.

If you need to prove it to yourself before you move on, get on her phone and check text messages from way back. Including those under girls' names, even ones you know (old trick they use to throw you off). Put a VAR under her car seat; velcro it up under the springs. Check all her Facebook stuff out. Keylog her computer. 

Once you're convinced, then you've got all the evidence you need.


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## Gerrard

happy as a clam said:


> You can certainly ask, but you will likely not get a straight answer. No one wants to admit that they are "two-timing."
> 
> Much better to do a little detective work first, just the basics. Do you have access to her cell phone records, her actual phone, Facebook or social media accounts? Are all of these items password-protected? Does she ever let her phone out of her sight?
> 
> Is she buying new clothes, changing her hairstyle, losing weight? I realize she was sick recently, but you just never can tell what someone might be up to.
> 
> It's up to you how to proceed, but personally I would want to know the answer to the question before I ever asked it. If she has met someone, once you ask, she will take it underground and make it next to impossible for you to find out the truth.
> 
> Start working on the 180. You will feel much better about yourself no matter which way this thing goes.
> 
> Best of luck to you...


Hmm, well having thought about it, the following springs to mind:

- She's signed up to a gym and keeps saying she can't wait until she can gym (completely out of character becuase she doesnt really gym, and doesnt enjoy it)
- Facebook profile pics are ones most beautiful, one was even from 2 years ago
- When lying in bed recovering, she gave me a list of 3 novels to look for in a bookstore. One had the synopsis of a woman 20 years married who has a love affair with another man
- SHe seems to be ALWAYS online on whatsapp. But when I've looked at her whatsapp seen nothing

I can possibly get her phone, but its tricky. I can get onto her ipad which wont ask for a facebook login.


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## Tobyboy

Is there a guy/friend/co-worker that she mentioned allot, and now it's like he don't exist?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

deleting her convos in whatsapp is a huge red flag

I suggest you read the newbie link in my signature and begin a thorough investigation furtively


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## Gerrard

Tobyboy said:


> Is there a guy/friend/co-worker that she mentioned allot, and now it's like he don't exist?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell you what, there's a guy from her work who I see she friended on FB about a month ago. No big deal. However, one of the problems she said she had with me was that I'm not a big guy, so I make her look big. (I'm average sized and quite lean)

So i go back and check this guy out, and guess what? He's big. Also, she's never really mentioned him.

But it doesn't add up, he doesn't look her type at all, and he's not that good looking. But he is big . . .


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## Machiavelli

Gerrard said:


> I’ve been married to my wife for 2 and a half years. We’ve been together for 6 years. I’m 29, she’s 32.


7 year itch.



Gerrard said:


> Recently we’ve had a few issues in the bedroom, with me wanting it more, and feeling that she wasn’t really that keen, although it’s still been pretty compatible.
> 
> She’s been acting out over the last 2 months and mentioning lack of intimacy, how she doesn’t lust me etc. I thought it would pass. But I noticed last week how she’d stopped sending me house options to look at. I was worried about what this meant, so I dug deeper with her on the issue, and then she hit me with a massive bombshell. She said that she was reconsidering stuff, and wasn’t sure any more. That she’s come to realise that she really loves me, but has never really felt a deep lust or real physical attraction to me. She said she needs to take a while to think things over.


This is ILYBINILWY. 90% of the time this means she has copulated with some new guy. If you're skeptical, I can break it down for you but I'm in a hurry, so I'll just say there is a boat load of brain chemicals that get released when this happens so she gets a crack-like euphoria after orgasm followed by a sense of bonding to the OM. 



Gerrard said:


> This shook me like you won’t believe. It was also incredibly perplexing. I mean, I have my flaws like everyone, but I’ve been a pretty perfect husband. I’m a good looking guy (if I have to say so myself  ).


How often do women hit on you in an unambiguous clearly sexual way?



Gerrard said:


> In terms of our marriage, I think it’s good. We’re good companions, we fight rarely. We laugh together, have similar interests and kind of ‘get’ each other. The physical attraction thing hurts, but when you put it up against all the positive aspects of us, surely its something she can look past?


Wrong.



Gerrard said:


> We’re ok in the bedroom. Compatible, if slightly measured and unspontaneous. But for me that’s not such a bad thing when you’ve been together for 6 years. Things naturally fade a bit. I’ll be the first to admit maybe I got a bit complacent and stopped doing the little romantic things. But I’ve realised that and I’m keen to fix it.


Wrong. Little romantic things got nothing to do with it.



Gerrard said:


> She’s had partners in the past. Probably around 6 sexual partners. So she’s been through that phase.


Wrong. Unless she just got her ovaries pulled in the recent plumbing work, her sex drive is now at its peak (age 32). So that cycle is coinciding with the seven year itch. Double trouble.



Gerrard said:


> For me on the other hand, she’s the only person I’ve ever properly been with. It’s a slight issue for me, but I’ve made peace with it, purely because I’m happy to be with her. She’s my one, and that’s ok for me.


Don't be too in love with that idea. I've got a feeling there's a new harem in your future.



Gerrard said:


> I love her incredibly. My gut feel is that we’ll probably end up being ok, but the relationship is suddenly up in the air and anything is possible.


So, adultery is not a deal killer for you? Why is that?



Gerrard said:


> Firstly, her decision might take months.


That's called "cake eating" and "limbo." She sees you as a provider drone, at least at the moment, and she is willing to live off your contributions to the marriage while getting her thrills elsewhere. It will go on until she finds a new guy to move in with (or her OM, if married, leaves his wife) or until you find out (she hasn't really considered the second possibility). This is pretty standard behavior for about 50% of the female population.



Gerrard said:


> I’m a wreck. In bits. How am I supposed to function properly over the period? There’s a constant knot in my stomach. This is my wife. The woman I built my life around, she’s my everything. If I lose her it would destroy me.


Wrong. Women are like buses; another one will be along in five minutes. If you let her know you've got oneitis, you're doomed (which you already are).



Gerrard said:


> Secondly, is there anything I can do over this period to make it better in some way?


Yes.



Gerrard said:


> How do I act around her.


Like 40 girls offered to blow you in the storeroom at work today and you had to beat them off with a stick. Start ignoring her, start dressing better and younger than usual. Change your hair to anything (it doesn't matter to what, it's a signal) and grow and maintain stubble for the time being. Again, it's a signal.

Do you already have a bike? What kind?



Gerrard said:


> If I go crazy at the gym and make myself look better (I already have a decent body) will it make a difference? How can I make her want me and realise I’m the one without a doubt?


Since your wife was your first, she's probably reached the conclusion that no other woman will have you. She probably married you for the simple reason that you're stable and employed; a big change from the alphas and sigmas that she is attracted to. She was temporarily tired of dealing with jerks and that's where you came in. Oh, and whatever number she gave you? Multiply that by 3 and you're getting close. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

What you want out of the gym is about a 44" chest and a 32" waist (at the navel). Shoulders need to be about 50" around or more. Think classic Vee torso with six pack. You can do that in under an hour a week, if you eat right. Eating is the hard part.



Gerrard said:


> I don't think a proper affair is happening, but reading around certain message boards and articles, it seems that there are clear signs with her pointing that way. If true, I don't think she's full on cheating. I think there is however the posibility of her having met someone who she is excited about and does actually want physically, but its made her question her whole marriage.


The first distancing was when he met the guy, the more severe distancing is after they had sex for the first time. Has she always shaved her vulva or just recently?



Gerrard said:


> Thanks for the list. Great points. Its very very easy to play the victim and say things like, 'please dont do this', 'dont ruin my life'. On the day she broke this to me I said things like that, but you're right, I have to be stronger.


Not stronger. Aloof. Google "the sixteen commandments chateau"


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## Cubby

Gerrard said:


> Hmm, well having thought about it, the following springs to mind:
> 
> - She's signed up to a gym and keeps saying she can't wait until she can gym (completely out of character becuase she doesnt really gym, and doesnt enjoy it)
> - Facebook profile pics are ones most beautiful, one was even from 2 years ago
> - When lying in bed recovering, she gave me a list of 3 novels to look for in a bookstore. One had the synopsis of a woman 20 years married who has a love affair with another man
> - SHe seems to be ALWAYS online on whatsapp. But when I've looked at her whatsapp seen nothing
> 
> I can possibly get her phone, but its tricky. I can get onto her ipad which wont ask for a facebook login.


Might be someone at the gym. Don't ask her if there's someone else. Play dumb. Investigate quietly. The chances are great she's got a boyfriend.


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## Machiavelli

Gerrard said:


> Tell you what, there's a guy from her work who I see she friended on FB about a month ago. No big deal. However, one of the problems she said she had with me was that I'm not a big guy, so I make her look big. (I'm average sized and quite lean)
> 
> So i go back and check this guy out, and guess what? He's big. Also, she's never really mentioned him.
> 
> But it doesn't add up, he doesn't look her type at all, and he's not that good looking. But he is big . . .


Big in what way? Without you saying I'd put money on "muscular" and "built." No matter what a woman says is her type, this type of guy is the one women are "programmed" for. Which is also why she is suddenly interested in hitting the weights.


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## happy as a clam

Machiavelli said:


> She sees you as a *provider drone*, at least at the moment, and she is willing to live off your contributions to the marriage while getting her thrills elsewhere...
> 
> Wrong. *Women are like buses; another one will be along in five minutes.* If you let her know you've got oneitis, you're doomed (which you already are)...


Mach... too many "gems" in that last post to mention them all! But these two stand out...

OP, pay close attention. You're getting very good advice here.


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## Cubby

Gerrard said:


> Tell you what, there's a guy from her work who I see she friended on FB about a month ago. No big deal. However, one of the problems she said she had with me was that I'm not a big guy, so I make her look big. (I'm average sized and quite lean)
> 
> So i go back and check this guy out, and guess what? He's big. Also, she's never really mentioned him.
> 
> *But it doesn't add up, he doesn't look her type at all, and he's not that good looking. But he is big *. . .


One of the most common things you hear about affair partners is that "they aren't good-looking" or "they don't seem like her/his type." Pay no attention to his looks. Except for her comments about "big." That's a red flag. I'm sorry, but this isn't looking good.  (But at least it explains her behavior.)


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## ReidWright

I believe wondershare dr. fone can recover whatsapp info. Definitely worth a try to get the whole picture of what's going on...

how was her reaction to needing the abdominal surgery? sometimes a life changing event like surgery can really shake up someone (no matter how routine or non-life threatening the condition). Kind of like an early middle life crisis event; facing morality, etc.

Don't sweat the novels she reads...if she reads a murder mystery, it doesn't mean she's a serial killer.


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## Tobyboy

If you find anything suspicious.....do not confront!!! Not yet...at least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gerrard

Wow, the advice on here is great, but knocking me like you won't believe.

However, I must say I don't see how she could have slept with another man. She goes to work, comes back straight home. Only on fridays she might stay later for a couple of drinks after work. 

I don't see how she could. I kind of know her movements pretty well.

This thread given me a ton of questions, but its incredible hard not to bring it up with her. I'll try though, and I need to do some investigating.


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## Gerrard

Sorry, what's ILYBINILWY? 

* sorry, googled it. Now I get it.


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## Cubby

Gerrard said:


> Wow, the advice on here is great, but knocking me like you won't believe.
> 
> However, I must say I don't see how she could have slept with another man. She goes to work, comes back straight home. Only on fridays she might stay later for a couple of drinks after work.
> 
> I don't see how she could. I kind of know her movements pretty well.
> 
> This thread given me a ton of questions, but its incredible hard not to bring it up with her. I'll try though, and I need to do some investigating.


Gerrard, don't ever think she doesn't have time to have sex with another guy. Cheaters are masters at time management. It's been proven here over and over.....to many a betrayed spouse's astonishment.


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## Cubby

Gerrard said:


> Sorry, what's ILYBINILWY?


I love you but I'm not in love with you. It's a common phrase a spouse says which essentially means your wife is cheating.


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## Gerrard

Cubby said:


> Gerrard, don't ever think she doesn't have time to have sex with another guy. Cheaters are masters at time management. It's been proven here over and over.....to many a betrayed spouse's astonishment.


I guess. But her? She's been badly hurt by cheating in the past. She's extremely ethical and with high morals. I know its easy to be blinded and think your loved one is a saint. But seriously, I'll be more than astonished.


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## Machiavelli

Gerrard said:


> I guess. But her? She's been badly hurt by cheating in the past. She's extremely ethical and with high morals. I know its easy to be blinded and think your loved one is a saint. But seriously, I'll be more than astonished.


The vast majority of adulterous wives hate "cheaters" and tend to be highly moral and can often be found in church on Sunday. However, they've got a thing jokingly called "The Rationalization Hamster." This is their ability to turn their own sins that they would abhor in others into deeds of righteousness, fully justified by your shortcomings.


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## happy as a clam

Gerrard said:


> However, I must say I don't see how she could have slept with another man. She goes to work, comes back straight home. *Only on fridays she might stay later for a couple of drinks after work.*


Well, there's her opportunity. You'd be surprised how much extramarital sex goes on in people's cars in parking lots.



Gerrard said:


> I know its easy to be blinded and think your loved one is a saint. *But seriously, I'll be more than astonished.*


Can't tell you how many times we've heard THAT on TAM...

Look, we're not saying she is DEFINITELY cheating. But there are numerous red flags. Keep your radar up. Look into some of the "surveillance" tools already mentioned. Whatsapp is a huge red flag.


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## Tobyboy

Gerrard said:


> I guess. But her? She's been badly hurt by cheating in the past. She's extremely ethical and with high morals. I know its easy to be blinded and think your loved one is a saint. But seriously, I'll be more than astonished.


If you listen carefully, she'll tell you what's going on. All those feelings that she has lost for you, have been transferred to someone else. She might not have acted on them, but she's given you notice that she's not "into you" at the moment. 
Follow the advise given to you here. There is hope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby

Machiavelli said:


> The vast majority of adulterous wives hate "cheaters" and tend to be highly moral and can often be found in church on Sunday. However, they've got a thing jokingly called "The Rationalization Hamster." This is their ability to turn their own sins that they would abhor in others into deeds of righteousness, fully justified by your shortcomings.


:iagree: ....and she's already pointed out some of your "shortcomings." That she's not physically attracted to you, that you're not big, and make her look big in comparison. Funny how you never heard those things before. Only now, now that she's got a boyfriend. That's bad, but maybe it's not all that bad because you're not very big, and well, she's not that physically attracted to you anyway.......see how that works?


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## Marduk

Machiavelli said:


> Big in what way? Without you saying I'd put money on "muscular" and "built." No matter what a woman says is her type, this type of guy is the one women are "programmed" for. Which is also why she is suddenly interested in hitting the weights.


Which is why he should be working out like a madman, supplementing well, eating more protein then he thinks he should, and high quality fats.

If she hasn't cheated yet, he's sitting on a potential time bomb.


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## tom67

marduk said:


> Which is why he should be working out like a madman, supplementing well, eating more protein then he thinks he should, and high quality fats.
> 
> If she hasn't cheated yet, he's sitting on a potential time bomb.


:iagree::iagree:
If she has checked out all of the above plus go out a few nights a week to go find a hotter replacement.
On top of that surprise her at work and introduce yourself to the pos and do some c0ckblocking.


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## Idyit

Gerrard said:


> *Tell you what, there's a guy from her work* who I see she friended on FB about a month ago. No big deal. However, one of the problems she said she had with me was that I'm not a big guy, so I make her look big. (I'm average sized and quite lean)
> 
> So i go back and check this guy out, and guess what? He's big. Also, she's never really mentioned him.
> 
> But it doesn't add up, he doesn't look her type at all, and he's not that good looking. But he is big . . .


Not to pile on but a potential workplace romance provides plenty of opportunity.

Listen to what you're others are telling you. There are several red flags waving to get your attention.


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## Big Dude

Gerrard said:


> That she’s come to realise that she really loves me, but has never really felt a deep lust or real physical attraction to me. She said she needs to take a while to think things over. .


Hi Gerrard,

I'd like to provide a very different perspective from what has been posted so far, as food for thought.

Your wife looks like she is giving you an out, and you should consider taking it.

As a man who has been married for 28 years to a woman that was never really sexually attracted to me, I can tell you that if I had been honestly informed before buying a house, having kids, etc., I might have avoided wasting a lot of my life.

Being married to such a woman is death by a thousand cuts. I can imagine how painful it must be to hear those words from your wife. Can you imagine how much more painful it will be to continue to build a life with a woman who feels that way about you?

If your wife is having or even just considering an affair, you have been handed a rare free pass to GTFO with honor.


----------



## Dyokemm

" But seriously, I'll be more than astonished. "

Gerrard,

EVERY BS on this site would have said the same thing before they discovered how they had been stabbed in the back without remorse.


----------



## Gerrard

Big Dude said:


> Hi Gerrard,
> 
> I'd like to provide a very different perspective from what has been posted so far, as food for thought.
> 
> Your wife looks like she is giving you an out, and you should consider taking it.
> 
> As a man who has been married for 28 years to a woman that was never really sexually attracted to me, I can tell you that if I had been honestly informed before buying a house, having kids, etc., I might have avoided wasting a lot of my life.
> 
> Being married to such a woman is death by a thousand cuts. I can imagine how painful it must be to hear those words from your wife. Can you imagine how much more painful it will be to continue to build a life with a woman who feels that way about you?
> 
> If your wife is having or even just considering an affair, you have been handed a rare free pass to GTFO with honor.


Great piece of advice. Much appreciated, especially from someone who has walked this path. 

To be honest, when it comes to stress and coping mechanisms, one of my best tactics is making peace with the worst case scenario. I'm pretty close to getting there right now, but it is tough.


----------



## Gerrard

Ok, so here's an update. 

Last night I went home, and instead of being the emotional cripple, I was much stronger. I made it clear to my wife that I was doing ok, and hey, maybe I don't want a woman who doesn't sexually want me. But I still said I was going to fight for us.

I did bring up the potential cheating. Turns out there is a guy at work she thinks is hot. Nothing has happened, but she has had some thoughts and it has scared her a bit. I know what a lot of you will think about this, that it isn't the whole truth. I believe it though, I really do. So let's leave it there.

I then made the bold move of suggesting to her that she moves out for a while, maybe even a couple of months. We're not getting to the bottom of anything by coming home into the same space every night with so much hanging over us. It will get nowhere. For my own good as well, I can make more peace with being alone, and get used to it a bit, and don't have to look at her every 30 minutes wondering what she's thinking. I think we both actually need to come to terms with this in our own space. My hope is that she realises what she's got and comes back much better.

However, while lying awake early this morning, something hit me that I think explains all of this, but it gets quite deep. In the very beginning of our relationship just after we started having sex, I went through a short period of erectile problems. Purely psychological, it happened one time on a drunk night, and after that it played on my mind to an extent that the problem lasted a couple of weeks. Now sure, I got over that and now think very little of it. But, thinking back now, I went through a real confidence crisis because of it. I lost confidence in my manlihood. I was scared to take initiatives because I was worried we’d get to the key point and I would let myself down. What essentially happened I think, was that my wife picked up on my lack of confidence, so she didn’t have confidence to make spontaneous moves either. Consequently we settled in to quite a structured, planned sex life. Before doing it we’d ask ‘do you want to’, or agree that ‘tonight we will do it’. It got so bad we would set days aside for it. We’d say ok, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday are ‘on days’. The warning signs should have been there then. 

What I think this has done is that even though I’m over those short lived erectile issues right in the beginning of the relationship, the behaviours remained. I think what this resulted in was that she could get into it when needed, but never really wanted to be spontaneous and passion filled, because her mind had blocked that out. That’s why now she’s looking at other guys thinking they are hotter than me, because her mind has conditioned itself not to look at me in a wild passionate way.

So you can see the vicious circle that was created here. My lack of confidence led to her not being confident in me, which in turn led me to pick up on this lack of confidence from her. 

Don;t misuderstand me here, ther's no issues in the erectile department at all now. But it set about a chain of behaviours that we have never reversed. 

I liken it to a person's life. A person that has had trauma in their early years has to address it later in their life in order to move on properly. I think we have just lived with this and not addressed it. 

Is it fixable? I think so. But it feels like we need to start again, and she needs to change perceptions of me, and break down that mental barrier. I firmly believe she likes me and thinks I'm good looking. If I walked into her office tomorrow and we'd never met she'd think 'hmm, he's really good looking'

She’s seeing a psychologist next week, let’s see what happens.


----------



## Gerrard

marduk said:


> Which is why he should be working out like a madman, supplementing well, eating more protein then he thinks he should, and high quality fats.
> 
> If she hasn't cheated yet, he's sitting on a potential time bomb.


Will me lifting weights and getting properly bulked really work? Hasn't this gone too far, or could that still help?


----------



## tom67

Gerrard said:


> Will me lifting weights and getting properly bulked really work? Hasn't this gone too far, or could that still help?


It helps with the v torso that women jump after.
Plus it gives you confidence.


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## LongWalk

Being in shape will change your self image.

But the mental aspect is key. I am not sure that relationship discussion improves relationships as much as action.

If you are still having sex then there is nothing to stop you from being spontaneous. What have you got to lose? If she rejects you, then you know what message she is sending.

I don't want to sound cold, but her health problems may reoccur. Might be lucky not to be there for a life time of them.


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## Lostinthought61

Gerrad,

whether lifting or working out will keep her is frankly irrelevant if the end goal is to first and foremost working on you....some of your phrases in your above statements hinges a bit on codependency....instead i invite you to be thinking and acting more independent both in mind and body...whether you stay with you wife or not, this transition is what will carry you forward the current and future relationships...most women like independent men. 
you also want you to be clear with your wife what are the rules of separation so that if she decides to test the water this guy and can't come back and said there was no rule to say she couldn't. Be strong...be well


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## Cubby

Gerrard, I think it's a bad move to have her move out for a couple of months. You really don't want to make it easier for her to fook other guys. Sorry for being harsh about it, but when she says she's not physically attracted to you, 95 percent of the time, that means there's someone else in the picture. 

And I know you said you believe her about remaining faithful, and I understand that, but if you've been around this forum enough, you'll see that cheaters can be very convincing actors. It's unbelievable how good they are. 

You better make sure you check everything. Cell phone records, emails, texts, do the VAR thing....everything. Do all of this before you go about figuring out what you're doing wrong in the marriage.


----------



## tom67

Big Dude said:


> Hi Gerrard,
> 
> I'd like to provide a very different perspective from what has been posted so far, as food for thought.
> 
> Your wife looks like she is giving you an out, and you should consider taking it.
> 
> As a man who has been married for 28 years to a woman that was never really sexually attracted to me, I can tell you that if I had been honestly informed before buying a house, having kids, etc., I might have avoided wasting a lot of my life.
> 
> Being married to such a woman is death by a thousand cuts. I can imagine how painful it must be to hear those words from your wife. Can you imagine how much more painful it will be to continue to build a life with a woman who feels that way about you?
> 
> If your wife is having or even just considering an affair, you have been handed a rare free pass to GTFO with honor.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
You can only control what you will put up with.


----------



## LongWalk

Her moving out is bad.

Read Bagdon's thread.


----------



## Ripper

While you have been together for 6 years, you have only been married 2.5 and are already having to deal with this crap. Did she sleep thru the vows part of your wedding ceremony?

She is 32 approaching the Wall at escape velocity and her sexual market value is going no where but down from here. You are 29, you got years left to play the field and find someone better. Do you really want to fight and struggle to keep this miserable status quo?


----------



## the guy

Cubby said:


> Gerrard, I think it's a bad move to have her move out for a couple of months. You really don't want to make it easier for her to fook other guys. Sorry for being harsh about it, but when she says she's not physically attracted to you, 95 percent of the time, that means there's someone else in the picture.
> 
> And I know you said you believe her about remaining faithful, and I understand that, but if you've been around this forum enough, you'll see that cheaters can be very convincing actors. It's unbelievable how good they are.
> 
> You better make sure you check everything. Cell phone records, emails, texts, do the VAR thing....everything. Do all of this before you go about figuring out what you're doing wrong in the marriage.


There already is someone else! She has her eye on a coworker.

If you guys live apart she will have more then an eye on this guy.


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## Tobyboy

I'm surprised she admitted to having "the hots" for a coworker!!! But then again, it's only the tip of the iceberg!! Your marriage is toast!! Sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

1. Nix the move out unless you plan on divorcing her. She will be bedding him 4x a week within two weeks if its only really at the infatuation stage.
2. SHUT UP already. Eyes open mouth closed. STOP asking her about an affair!!!!
3. Read the top link of my signature. Step by step. All you need. I read your odds as 60% full affair and 80% sexting/emotional affair. 
4. What phone and carrier does she use? Gus will be by with instructions soonish.
5. Hot guy at work is likely deliberate misdirection on her part. Take a look at the gym she like so much. Im guessing a gym rat is sniffing around her.
6. I want a report you have the VAR bought and in place YESTERDAY.


----------



## weightlifter

What was her reaction to separating?


----------



## Decorum

QUOTE=Gerrard;10143330]

I then made the bold move of suggesting to her that she moves out for a while, maybe even a couple of months. We're not getting to the bottom of anything by coming home into the same space every night with so much hanging over us. It will get nowhere. For my own good as well, I can make more peace with being alone, and get used to it a bit, and don't have to look at her every 30 minutes wondering what she's thinking. I think we both actually need to come to terms with this in our own space. My hope is that she realises what she's got and comes back much better.

[/QUOTE]

Gerrard,
This is almost always a bad idea. She may actually like a break from you atm.

If she is cheating (which does not seem to be the case atm) it is a passport to an awesome sex vacation. 

If she is not it will cause her to disconnect even further. It is very hard to save a relationship that only happens in snapshots of time. It could play out differently but it would be the exception.

If she asks about the separation again tell her that her doubt has struck you more deeply than you first realized and a separation would not answer any questions for you. “ If I am not the man who rocks your world then I don’t want to be the man you have to settle for, I think I deserve better, and if you are not sure then you are weighing your options, and I will not entrust my future, my love or my children with someone who considers me an option!”

Your best bet is to regain your attractiveness as you have been counseled here (more to come I am sure) and let her see it in real time. Do the 180, read MMSL, run a map, etc.

If you want to make her think about it in crisis mode (and I think it is a bit early for that) the best thing is to tell her you think it would be a mistake to make a future with someone who is not attracted to you, you both deserve better and file for divorce. It will take some time for the divorce to be finalized and you can cancel it any time before then (Don’t put it that way btw).

Then proceed to be the most awesome man you can be and see if you guys will make a good match. 

Please don’t settle for some hellish limbo of a relationship.
We see these played out here all the time.

Kids, finances, social networks, and misery, does that sound like a desirable future?


----------



## Marduk

Gerrard said:


> Will me lifting weights and getting properly bulked really work? Hasn't this gone too far, or could that still help?


It takes you from a lose-lose scenario to a win-win scenario.

If you split, you'll have access to more women.

If you don't, she'll desire you more and you'll have more self-confidence.

Either way you will have more discipline and clarity.

Oh, and you asking her to move out was an invitation for her to explore her attraction to other men. Likely with high energy and repeatedly with wild, free abandon in her new shag pad.


----------



## Decorum

I will add one more thing. If she tells you she thinks the (co-worker) is hot it is likely they are already in an emotional affair (an EA).

He is now meeting some of her emotional needs, and is a sounding board for her complaints about you.

EA's generally move through certain steps.
When one of the affair partners expresses their "feelings" for the other that is usually the threshold for it going physical, the desire to consummate it is almost irresistible for a woman after that.

IDK but it may be that they have not crossed that threshold yet. It is still just talking, looking forward to contact, etc as the addiction develops.

If any of this is true it will be very hard (read impossible) to address the issues in your marriage.

Two people and a marriage counselor cannot repair a marriage when three people are involved in it!

Dont ask any more questions of her, follow weighlifters advice here.


----------



## WandaJ

if she doesn't feel "lust" for you, bothers her that you are not big enough to make her look small - well, if these are her arguments what's wrong with your marriage, I think there is nothing left there on her part. 
Doesn't really matter if she has someone. She doesn't love you anymore, she sounds bored, and looking for way out. Not arguing together is doesn't mean much, just that you are pleasant enought together. don't waste too much time and energy on this.

you are still young. You will get over this relationship, and one day find someone who will be appreciate what you have to offer.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gerrard said:


> Toby and Happy as a clam:
> 
> I don't think a proper affair is happening, but reading around certain message boards and articles, it seems that there are clear signs with her pointing that way. If true, I don't think she's full on cheating. I think there is however the posibility of her having met someone who she is excited about and does actually want physically, but its made her question her whole marriage.
> 
> Thanks for the list. Great points. Its very very easy to play the victim and say things like, 'please dont do this', 'dont ruin my life'. On the day she broke this to me I said things like that, but you're right, I have to be stronger.


The husband is the last to know.

EAs can flare up and explode in less than a week. They can simmer too.

But you left the door open for this. Also do not assume that because she does not lust for you that she does not lust at all.

In fact is she is in an EA her feeling flow from you as primary interest to the other. 

While it could be something else and since you have extra time now, I suggest you find out ASAP. She may decide on the morrow that you are history.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gerrard said:


> Tell you what, there's a guy from her work who I see she friended on FB about a month ago. No big deal. However, one of the problems she said she had with me was that I'm not a big guy, so I make her look big. (I'm average sized and quite lean)
> 
> So i go back and check this guy out, and guess what? He's big. Also, she's never really mentioned him.
> 
> But it doesn't add up, he doesn't look her type at all, and he's not that good looking. But he is big . . .


No children ... no house. Hmmm. She is looking for another man who is big. 

Idunno. Basically is she continues to work with this guy you are likely doomed no matter what else you do.

You do not have a lot of proof but trust your gut here.

So she was your first. There are others.


----------



## Entropy3000

happy as a clam said:


> Mach... too many "gems" in that last post to mention them all! But these two stand out...
> 
> OP, pay close attention. You're getting very good advice here.


I felt dirty liking that post. But I agree that at this point this should be the OP attitude because he being replaced by a bigger model most lileky. He needs to develop confidence and some amount of swagger. AND get out of the oneitis he is in. In his case that is a liability at the moment.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gerrard said:


> Wow, the advice on here is great, but knocking me like you won't believe.
> 
> However, I must say I don't see how she could have slept with another man. She goes to work, comes back straight home. Only on fridays she might stay later for a couple of drinks after work.
> 
> I don't see how she could. I kind of know her movements pretty well.
> 
> This thread given me a ton of questions, but its incredible hard not to bring it up with her. I'll try though, and I need to do some investigating.


There is always time. BUT the key here is that f she has bonded with someone in an EA it can move to an open PA at any time.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gerrard said:


> I guess. But her? She's been badly hurt by cheating in the past. She's extremely ethical and with high morals. I know its easy to be blinded and think your loved one is a saint. But seriously, I'll be more than astonished.


Chemicals are powerful. These things become rationalized.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gerrard said:


> Ok, so here's an update.
> 
> Last night I went home, and instead of being the emotional cripple, I was much stronger. I made it clear to my wife that I was doing ok, and hey, maybe I don't want a woman who doesn't sexually want me. But I still said I was going to fight for us.
> 
> I did bring up the potential cheating. Turns out there is a guy at work she thinks is hot. Nothing has happened, but she has had some thoughts and it has scared her a bit. I know what a lot of you will think about this, that it isn't the whole truth. I believe it though, I really do. So let's leave it there.
> 
> *Ok so your next move was to insist she go full NC with this guy and change jobs immediately. No fond good byes.*
> 
> I then made the bold move of suggesting to her that she moves out for a while, maybe even a couple of months.
> 
> *OMG Nooooooooo!!!!!! The humanity. Jeebus!!! This is the last thing you wanted. Now she can have an open affair with this other guy. Sigh.*
> 
> We're not getting to the bottom of anything by coming home into the same space every night with so much hanging over us. It will get nowhere. For my own good as well, I can make more peace with being alone, and get used to it a bit, and don't have to look at her every 30 minutes wondering what she's thinking. I think we both actually need to come to terms with this in our own space. My hope is that she realises what she's got and comes back much better.
> 
> *Crazy logic. You cannot work on a marriage apart. If she was considering this guy at all, you closed the deal for her. Seriously. You needed to c0ck bl0ck.*
> 
> However, while lying awake early this morning, something hit me that I think explains all of this, but it gets quite deep. In the very beginning of our relationship just after we started having sex, I went through a short period of erectile problems. Purely psychological, it happened one time on a drunk night, and after that it played on my mind to an extent that the problem lasted a couple of weeks. Now sure, I got over that and now think very little of it. But, thinking back now, I went through a real confidence crisis because of it. I lost confidence in my manlihood. I was scared to take initiatives because I was worried we’d get to the key point and I would let myself down. What essentially happened I think, was that my wife picked up on my lack of confidence, so she didn’t have confidence to make spontaneous moves either. Consequently we settled in to quite a structured, planned sex life. Before doing it we’d ask ‘do you want to’, or agree that ‘tonight we will do it’. It got so bad we would set days aside for it. We’d say ok, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday are ‘on days’. The warning signs should have been there then.
> 
> *Maybe, but yu are over thinking this now. NOw is what matters. You just went limp on her by telling her you need to be separate instead of rekindling your lust. Cheese and Rice!!!!*
> 
> What I think this has done is that even though I’m over those short lived erectile issues right in the beginning of the relationship, the behaviours remained. I think what this resulted in was that she could get into it when needed, but never really wanted to be spontaneous and passion filled, because her mind had blocked that out. That’s why now she’s looking at other guys thinking they are hotter than me, because her mind has conditioned itself not to look at me in a wild passionate way.
> 
> So you can see the vicious circle that was created here. My lack of confidence led to her not being confident in me, which in turn led me to pick up on this lack of confidence from her.
> 
> Don;t misuderstand me here, ther's no issues in the erectile department at all now. But it set about a chain of behaviours that we have never reversed.
> 
> I liken it to a person's life. A person that has had trauma in their early years has to address it later in their life in order to move on properly. I think we have just lived with this and not addressed it.
> 
> Is it fixable? I think so. But it feels like we need to start again, and she needs to change perceptions of me, and break down that mental barrier. I firmly believe she likes me and thinks I'm good looking. If I walked into her office tomorrow and we'd never met she'd think 'hmm, he's really good looking'
> 
> She’s seeing a psychologist next week, let’s see what happens.



You need to immediately reverse this. Tell her you decided that you needed to work on the marriage together. Do not focus on just sex right now. You need to reconnect with her. But this is tricky. She needs to feel you are taking charge in an Alpha way. Not just doing this out of weakness. 

Tell her that you want the marriage to work but she needs to go NC with this other guy. Then you two start dating each other again.

Unless you are just done.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gerrard said:


> Will me lifting weights and getting properly bulked really work? Hasn't this gone too far, or could that still help?


Do this for yourself. It will do wonders for your confidence, your testosterone and so on. It may help with her but it will also help with the next woman.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Looks like an affair, but if it isn't it at least looks like she likes the idea of being in an affair which is about as bad. Either way her heart is not true to you or your marriage. 

Her comment about finding the coworker guy attractive is a decoy to steer you away from the real player. 

Surveillance is the order of the day. Listen to the other posters about this.


----------



## Gerrard

Thanks for all the responses so far. Great to come on hear and get the support. An update from my side:

I did a u-turn on the separation thing, and she's fine with that. What it does is give me a chance to keep my eyes open about anything possible going on. It's still bugging me.

I've managed to be pretty normal, not talking about the big issues. If anything I've perhaps been a little too withdrawn / distant. I'm not really messaging her in the day, unless she sends me one first. I'm working out every day, taking protein shakes. She's been quite miserable these last 2 days. Very few smiles. We're talking and stuff, but she's pretty serious. I think the weight of this all is probably getting to her.

Here's where I'm at right now, or pretty much close to getting at:

She's having this itch. Its made her think about a whole lot of stuff. She's reached an age where her sexual market value is going to decline rapidly and she's wondering if there's anything else out there, and she's looking at me and not feeling it right now. Fair enough, let her do this. She's also out of shape, has had major surgery, and will essentially be a 33 year old divorcee in the market having left their partner. It's a dangerous game she's playing. But she must play it out. 

I on the other hand, am 29, and as a man I'm probably still a couple of years away from the peak of my sexual market value. I've been active at the gym, not just now but over the past few months, and I'm probably 2 months away from the best shape of my life. As a previous poster pointed out, I have years left to play the field. And hey, maybe I don't want to be with someone who lacks feeling for me. So if this turns to the worst, it will hurt like hell, yes, but when the dust settles I'll be in the stronger position.

But, but, but . . . this is still the woman I love. The partner I chose, and I'm still fighting because I firmly believe we'd be (and are) great life partners - so I still have hope that this will work. The only thing is, I'm much closer to making peace with the bad outcome here.

So my question is this. To rectify this, we're going to have to connect sexually. Right now that seems a world away. She's made it clear how she feels - and it's put me at a real confidence low around her. In this moment in time she really doesn't want me physically at all. So where do I even start? How do we climb back to a point where we are connecting on that level?


----------



## Time4Joy

Take it from someone who's been down the road you're turning onto....cut your losses. Divorce her as soon as possible. Otherwise, you're due for a lifetime of death by a 1,000 cuts, slights and disrespects even IF there is no cheating. 

And there are very practical considerations. Stay hitched longer and she'll be in your wallet forever, or as the judge will rule: until death or remarriage (hers not yours). 

Even if this could be salvaged, it shouldn't be.


----------



## Gerrard

Time4Joy said:


> Take it from someone who's been down the road you're turning onto....cut your losses. Divorce her as soon as possible. Otherwise, you're due for a lifetime of death by a 1,000 cuts, slights and disrespects even IF there is no cheating.
> 
> And there are very practical considerations. Stay hitched longer and she'll be in your wallet forever, or as the judge will rule: until death or remarriage (hers not yours).
> 
> Even if this could be salvaged, it shouldn't be.


At what point did you get out, if you did? And how was it?


----------



## Gerrard

Another question. I'm pinning quite a few hopes that the visits to the psychologist will resolve a few things in her mind and hopefully make her come around to some sense. What's the likelihood of this?


----------



## Decorum

Gerrard said:


> So where do I even start? How do we climb back to a point where we are connecting on that level?


This is no secret. You connect on an emotional/ cognitive level first and nature does the rest.

You make her feel comfortable in your presence, relate to her, make eye contact, and occasional caring touch .
Be supportive, show interest, increase contact (i.e. time with her) slowly, taper off a bit let her increase, respond, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth if there is going to be an attraction that is all it should take. We are wired to go from meeting to copulating fairly quickly.

Now add in some history, some familiarity, another hot guy, fear of misleading you, and a desire to make leaving you as easy as possible and it does not get any easier. But reconnecting goes down the same road. If there is a reason she does not want to go down that road you have to remove it first. That has nothing to do with chasing her.


----------



## Gerrard

Ok so there are some developments. There is a couple we are friends with. Last night my wife had dinner with the woman of the couple. Today I get a call from the guy of that couple. He says to me that my wife told his about this other guy at work, and how they'd been messaging each other.

So most of you are right after all. There is some kind of EA happening. I'm livid because I specifically asked her, has anything happened, she said No.

I feel like I need to do something drastic that will shock her. Like pack a bag and walk out for the night, and tell her she needs to decide what she wants, and stop screwing me around.


----------



## Lostinthought61

So it sounds like she is in the "fog" and is focused on this person...and counseling will have minimal effect on someone who is deep in a fog....first can you get proof from her phone?
If you separate she will more likely go to him thinking that she is free from you.....i will let others give you better advice than I....but what ever you decide you have to stay there even if you pull the Divorce Card...that is the only way to stay in this. Good Luck

PS what she feels is guilt...use that against her


----------



## ReidWright

Gerrard said:


> So most of you are right after all. There is some kind of EA happening. I'm livid because I specifically asked her, has anything happened, she said No.


cheaters are liars, and liars lie.

also, it could be a PA. Your wife wouldn't tell her friend the whole truth either. She might have been just testing the waters, looking for a reaction, to see if she had a sympathetic ear.


----------



## Tobyboy

Don't confront! Find out what you can about the OM(is he married, girlfriend, her boss). Talk to your male friend again, ask him to ask his wife for more info.
Chances are that it's gotten physical already. 

Don't move out. Go out every night and be vague to where you've been and what you've been doing. She's cutting you out physically.....you cut her out emotionally. At the same time, you expose her affair, but not until you have all the facts. Your WW is not a good source of facts, as you've come find out!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Immediately stop talking to her about marriage issues, the OM, your future together.

Right now she could care less about you. Think about this: can you MAKE someone love you? No. It's a choice. She chose not to. 

A. That should make you angry
B. Why would you want someone like that to be your wife? Respect and love yourself. 

I did everything wrong and found TAM well after mine was gone and I made all the mistakes you are about to.

You need to 180 immediately. Get yourself and emotiins under control. Say nothing to her. Collect evidence. Listen to weightlifter. Be a strong man. Beta will be trampled.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Gerrard

cbnero said:


> Immediately stop talking to her about marriage issues, the OM, your future together.
> 
> Right now she could care less about you. Think about this: can you MAKE someone love you? No. It's a choice. She chose not to.
> 
> A. That should make you angry
> B. Why would you want someone like that to be your wife? Respect and love yourself.
> 
> I did everything wrong and found TAM well after mine was gone and I made all the mistakes you are about to.
> 
> You need to 180 immediately. Get yourself and emotiins under control. Say nothing to her. Collect evidence. Listen to weightlifter. Be a strong man. Beta will be trampled.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


All valid, thanks

But it feels like she needs to be shocked out of this fog of infatuation. I might not leave, but I feel I do need to draw a line in the sand and take control by saying I'm out. I feel I need to tell her that she needs to decide and stop f-ing me around.

If I don't do anything serious this EA will just develop further into who knows. Maybe already has.


----------



## weightlifter

Gerrard. Take this as your big bro telling you this...

SHUT UP!

Find their communication method and find out how far its gone. If this woman is not her BFF then she is likely under reporting what is going on. 

GET ON THIS NOW!!! I mean get up, go to the store get the var. Get that logger for however she is messaging this guy.

Read my top link and implement
NOW NOW NOW!!!! This may be savable but NOW!!!

By now I mean get out of the chair and DO IT!

I gave you instructions. These instructions represent my work with DOZENS of affairs, some of which never even had a thread. I have had access to far more data than has ever been printed. People give me their info because I never divulge without permission.


----------



## weightlifter

You do NOT have the luxury of time.

Find out how deep the affair is. You can not do this blind.


----------



## Cubby

Gerrard, I'm afraid you're going to confront now, without having all the facts. She's going to minimize her relationship with this guy unless you have the facts. She'll say "he's just a friend, and there were only a few texts....I gave him advice, a shoulder to lean on, or whatever...." 

Don't confront now, when you're in a rage. Be calm, cool, confident, armed with the facts and proceed with a well-thought out plan. Listen to weightlifter on gathering evidence.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Yep, we thought the evidence pointed to another guy. We've seen this pattern play out many times. We've also seen what works and what does not in how you handle the next few days. Here's what to do:

Don't confront her just yet. You need to do a little more surveillance to find out what's really going on. Plant a var. Check electronics. Get info from one of her coworkers, etc. Mouth shut and eyes wide open. Don't let her know you are on to her. Satisfy yourself that there really is an affair instead of just half innocent girl talk going on here. 

In the meantime learn and do the 180 and visit a lawyer. Protect your interests. Get ready to expose the affair. 

You have made comments like "see what she wants to do" and other thoughts of making her commit to the marriage. Stop thinking this way. If she's messing with another guy you need to be the one making the decisions about the future of the marriage. Take that leverage away from her. Making threats and ultimatums to her is lame. You just man up and do what you gotta do. Let actions speak.

If you confirm she is in an affair then I suggest you forgo any lame girly man confrontation and just let the serving of divorce papers be the confrontation. This is also the moment to expose the affair and go dark on her. The idea is to blindside her and rock her world. You must bring the affair utopia crashing to the floor for her.

If you want to forgive her and reconcile this protocol will give you the best chance to succeed, but only after she has been drug through a divorce and made to pay the price of an affair. If you don't want to reconcile this protocol likewise helps you to salvage your self esteem and emotional health as much as possible. Good luck.


----------



## happy as a clam

Cubby said:


> Gerrard, I'm afraid you're going to confront now, without having all the facts. *She's going to minimize her relationship with this guy unless you have the facts.* She'll say "he's just a friend, and there were only a few texts....I gave him advice, a shoulder to lean on, or whatever...."


^ ^ ^

This, This, THIS!!

Do NOT confront yet! She will take the whole thing underground, twist it all back on you, and you will end up being stuck in a marriage where you don't know what the h*ll she is doing.

PLEEEEEEASE follow weightlifter's advice (and everyone else)... get up off your duff right now, go buy the VARs, put one in her car, one in the house where she goes to text and talk in secret (bedroom? basement? bathroom?) Check cell phone records, install a key logger if you can, FindmyiPhone, whatever you have to do to get info.

Give it a few days to gather evidence, shouldn't take too long. Then confront when you have irrefutable proof and she can't put her hamster-spin on it.


----------



## Ripper

Gerrard said:


> But it feels like she needs to be shocked out of this fog of infatuation.


You need shocked out of the fog of infatuation as well. Go back and read your own posts and look at all the issues you are having to rationalize away. What would you tell a friend in such a situation?


----------



## the guy

The best way to shock her is to know more about this guy then she does, know exactly whats going on and the amount of time its been going on, and last but not least exactly what they are talking about.

So get busy James Bond and start gathering your intel

When you take all this information and confront her with it she will be more then shocked thats for sure.....

If you have the money hiring a PI will be the best money you ever spent.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

the guy said:


> The best way to shock her is to know more about this guy then she does, know exactly whats going on and the amount of time its been going on, and last but not least exactly what they are talking about.
> 
> So get busy James Bond and start gathering your intel
> 
> When you take all this information and confront her with it she will be more then shocked thats for sure.....
> 
> If you have the money hiring a PI will be the best money you ever spent.


Sometimes a criminal background check can be very useful. As an employer, I use them to sort out prospective employees and you wouldn't believe the stuff I find.


----------



## cbnero

Use this link if it helps with OM cell phone #:
Www.spydialer.com

It has 2 options:
1st will grab the VM recording off the OM cell phone. 
2nd will look up the first or last name on the cell account. It works at least 50% of the time. 

You just need his cell number.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Gerrard

Thanks for all the responses. I'll be back in a few days to give feedback.


----------



## devotion

Just to add my two cents, it is our human nature to sometimes feel attracted to other people even if we are in long term relationships. It is part of our marriage and relationship commitment to suppress and walk away from these feelings and situations. I see no inkling that your wife is going to do that. She's already started the emotional affair and if she moves out she will have plenty of opportunity to go further ("Oh my husband is such a jackass, only you hot guy at work understand me") and then possibly further on from that. 

My recommendation is to get formal marriage counseling immediately and see what a neutral third party says. I had three sessions with my ex-wife

1) Joint. Where it was basically an hour of her yelling at how useless I am.
2) Single. Where I learned some of the problems I have. She had her single one too and found out how much she hates me.
3) Single follow up -- where counselor tells me its a done deal and there's no hope. 

The divorce 180 is also very important here. Start that immediately. But don't make it easier for her to cheat (emotionally or physically) on you. Prepare for the 'worst'. 

PS, My ex-wife was 38 when she basically wanted to put herself back on the marketplace; makes absolutely no sense but in her world she had much better options than me. So far it seems I've definitely upgraded and she's living alone with four cats. The best thing my ex-wife ever did for me was not let me drag the divorce along. When one party checks out, you GOT TO GO. Life is too short to beg and plead for your partner to love you.


----------



## Machiavelli

Gerrard said:


> Here's where I'm at right now, or pretty much close to getting at:
> 
> She's having this itch. Its made her think about a whole lot of stuff. She's reached an age where her sexual market value is going to decline rapidly and she's wondering if there's anything else out there, and she's looking at me and not feeling it right now. Fair enough, let her do this. She's also out of shape, has had major surgery, and will essentially be a 33 year old divorcee in the market having left their partner. It's a dangerous game she's playing. But she must play it out.


You've been reading and learning. I salute you. Yes, sounds like she's hitting the wall hard.



Gerrard said:


> I on the other hand, am 29, and as a man I'm probably still a couple of years away from the peak of my sexual market value. I've been active at the gym, not just now but over the past few months, and I'm probably 2 months away from the best shape of my life. As a previous poster pointed out, I have years left to play the field.


Guys peak around 35, stay on the plateau to about 40. You're just entering The Golden Age.



Gerrard said:


> So my question is this. To rectify this, we're going to have to connect sexually. Right now that seems a world away. She's made it clear how she feels - and it's put me at a real confidence low around her. In this moment in time she really doesn't want me physically at all. So where do I even start? How do we climb back to a point where we are connecting on that level?


Your odds of success with her are low, but the only way to save the village is to show your willingness to burn the village. You do this by showing, or by non-verbally suggesting, that women are lining up to take her place. Make the appearance changes that I suggested, buy a chopper or a hot rod, and start going out every night wearing your new threads. Be mysterious about where you are going and who your meeting. Keep your lip buttoned and deflect if the asks. If she accuses you, agree and amplify. If she asks to go, too, take her someplace fun, otherwise go take in a movie or go listen to live music. If she is completely disinterested in your comings and goings, she has already not only fully disconnected but is even past the initial guilt stage.


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## weightlifter

Let him find out what is going on exactly. He does NOT really know and it should not take long if he is following instructions.


----------



## Machiavelli

weightlifter said:


> Let him find out what is going on exactly. He does NOT really know and it should not take long if he is following instructions.


What? OP still doesn't have the goods on her?


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## Gerrard

Not much to report on. I'm playing a very patient game. Not quite 180, but I've cut off all affection, I Love You's etc. Counselling starts tomorrow for her.

I'll tell you what scares me most in all of this. We moved cities 2 years ago, and where we are now is where you need to be in terms of career, opportunity etc. However, I havent got myself into circle / network of friends. The couple of close friends i have are friends of my wife's, so I can't count on them. That's where she does hold the power. She works in a young sort of industry with plenty of social opportunities and lots of work friends. WHile I work in a stagnant environment surrounded by no like minded people (although I earn a very decent salary). This is partially my fault, I guess I've become lazy / complacent in the marriage. What I know for sure is that even if there is no other guy, she'd slip into a couple of social groups with ease and be back on her feet in no time, whereas I'd struggle. And that's where I'm having problems at the moment in my mind.


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## ReidWright

Gerrard said:


> What I know for sure is that even if there is no other guy, she'd slip into a couple of social groups with ease and be back on her feet in no time, whereas I'd struggle. And that's where I'm having problems at the moment in my mind.


it's not a competition or a numbers game...just get out there and pursue some friendships or activities with like-minded people. You have to be proactive...you invite the fellas at work for an after hours drink, you ask around to see if someone knows a good place to fish/hike/bike, you invite some people out to the local sports bar for the big game, etc

so, are you in full snoop mode? vars? you really need to know if you have a 3rd party involved in your marriage before getting too deep into counseling.


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## Lostinthought61

Regardless where this ends up.....you still Ned to put your energy in your self....start with your hobbies....are social groups related related to them? Join a book club....most book stories have a list of them....expand your mind....take community classes on subjects or interest you like.....the point being is the you can just keep thinking about how unhappy you are in your situation or you can take steps to change it....otherwise you will no better tomorrow then you are today....do one thing today to gravitate you towards your ideal self


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## just got it 55

Gerrard said:


> Not much to report on. I'm playing a very patient game. Not quite 180, but I've cut off all affection, I Love You's etc. Counselling starts tomorrow for her.
> 
> I'll tell you what scares me most in all of this. We moved cities 2 years ago, and where we are now is where you need to be in terms of career, opportunity etc. However, I havent got myself into circle / network of friends. The couple of close friends i have are friends of my wife's, so I can't count on them. That's where she does hold the power. She works in a young sort of industry with plenty of social opportunities and lots of work friends. WHile I work in a stagnant environment surrounded by no like minded people (although I earn a very decent salary). This is partially my fault, I guess I've become lazy / complacent in the marriage. What I know for sure is that even if there is no other guy, she'd slip into a couple of social groups with ease and be back on her feet in no time, whereas I'd struggle.* And that's where I'm having problems at the moment in my mind.*


And thats where the problems are In your mind

Oneitis at it worst

You know you need to work on your confidence level

Start there along with the Gym.

Your opinion of yourself is the only one that matters.

55


----------



## Marduk

Gerrard said:


> Not much to report on. I'm playing a very patient game. Not quite 180, but I've cut off all affection, I Love You's etc. Counselling starts tomorrow for her.
> 
> I'll tell you what scares me most in all of this. We moved cities 2 years ago, and where we are now is where you need to be in terms of career, opportunity etc. However, I havent got myself into circle / network of friends. The couple of close friends i have are friends of my wife's, so I can't count on them. That's where she does hold the power. She works in a young sort of industry with plenty of social opportunities and lots of work friends. WHile I work in a stagnant environment surrounded by no like minded people (although I earn a very decent salary). This is partially my fault, I guess I've become lazy / complacent in the marriage. What I know for sure is that even if there is no other guy, she'd slip into a couple of social groups with ease and be back on her feet in no time, whereas I'd struggle. And that's where I'm having problems at the moment in my mind.


Hey, I was about to send you my story, and you just posted on it reading it, so please consider my learnings.

But, here's what I would tell a friend to say to his wife:

"Wife, I know we're on the rocks, and I know you've started things up with guy X. I'm also getting hit on by 20-somethings all the time at the gym, and given what you're doing I'm pretty tempted. So it's time for us to make a decision. In or out, right now, right here. Which is it? I'm not going to waste another day of my life on this dead marriage when I could be dating hot young women instead of sitting here doing the right thing while my wife isn't."


----------



## Gerrard

Ok, here’s an update from the last week. 

Things have been going ok, and I’ve seen a steady improvement in her. The psychologist sessions don’t seem to be influencing much at this stage though. But the big news is that with enough pressure she finally sat down with me and explained the nature of the EA, or start of it. They work together. He’s in a separate department so they don’t see much of each other. But in July they started talking quite a lot, she admits she started flirting, holding eye contact across the room, etc (that hurt me like hell). He told her she’s awesome, looked disappointed when he learned she’s married (not sure why the douche didn’t look at her finger). He basically told her he’s got involved with a married person before, but never will again, and has encouraged her to work on the marriage. After hearing about what I’m like from her he told her good guys are hard to find, and she must remember the man she married, and why. Not sure what to make of that. They spoke feelings a couple of times. When lying recovering from the operation they would message quite a bit. Eventually my wife said to him it’s not right and they must stop. Messaging has stopped for the last 3 weeks. All feelings talk stopped 3 weeks ago. She admitted what she likes about him is that he does adventure activities like mountain climbing, hang gliding etc, which I do not. He is much bigger than me, although I have a good shape and decently toned. I explained to my wife the Alpha / Beta philosophy of Athol Kay, and she understood completely, and agreed. I’ve checked things out and found nothing, so I’m 99% sure this is all true and the true extent of it. I think for 3-4 weeks there was a real infatuation phase happening, but day by day she’s slowly getting out of it. When she said all this to me I kept calm, and never freaked out at all. I think somehow a major barrier has been crossed. After telling me all this and from my understanding and forgiveness, she tearfully and emotionally said to me ‘I f&cking love you’. Physically we’re slowly getting back to being active in the bedroom, with a couple of very good occasions that she even said afterwards was very good. 

The start of this EA was when we were going through quite a lull, I had become complacent, we were doing the same stuff day after day month after month, and had a few bad fights around the time. I think it was ripe for happening, but that doesn’t make it acceptable or easier to handle. We’ve both now recognised where we were going wrong. I’ve evaluated the whole thing and I’m guilty somewhat of becoming lazy in the marriage. I’m not making excuses for her – it was still very wrong. But as I said, I recognise that we both have to look at ourselves and realise that marriage requires work. I firmly believe that because of all this we may end up even better than before. We seem to be on the way there. When all is said and done I find myself very much in love with her. There was a day or two a couple of weeks ago when I was ready to walk, and I think she knew that, but she is slowly changing back for the better.

In terms of myself, I’ve started yoga, have made contact with a good mate that I’ve lost touch with and we’re planning stuff again. With another mate I’m looking at guitars, which I’ve always wanted to. I'm working out with weights like a beast. And strangely enough for me because I’m not a religious man, I’m finding a lot of value in the teachings of Buddhism. 

What disturbs me quite a bit is that a lot of this happened on Friday evenings during drinks after work which is a regular occurrence there. Sometimes my wife will come home at 9PM from these, very drunk. I made it clear this is really not on anymore, but recognise that she still may do this from time to time, but earlier and less drinking. I can’t be controlling. Trouble is, this guy is still part of a group of work friends, so he’ll still be around. She says she’s moving on, and I genuinely do believe her. I’ve seen it in her behaviour. But she says he’ll still be around and a sort of guy friend in the group. 

Any ideas how I make peace with the fact that he’ll continue to be around?


----------



## livnlearn

Friday nights out with the coworkers have to stop. They weren't smart in the first place. If she cares about you and your marriage this won't be a problem for her.


----------



## LongWalk

Have something better planned for Fridays. Not just dinner. Something different. Go to a sports event.


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## Hicks

Yeah, she has to stop going out for drinks and socializing in mixed company (especially this person) without you.

IT was never a good idea in the first place, but now it's proven to be something that is not compatible with your marriage.

The bottom line is you must ask her to decide if she wants a) happy hour with her co workers or b) her marriage to you.

Offering her this choice is not controlling her. Allow her to be free to choose one of the other. But, you must be willing to divorce her if she chooses happy hour. This may sound extreme, but it's super important that social drinking in mixed company ends.


----------



## sammy3

Gerrard said:


> I'll tell you what scares me most in all of this. We moved cities 2 years ago, and where we are now is where you need to be in terms of career, opportunity etc. However, I havent got myself into circle / network of friends. The couple of close friends i have are friends of my wife's, so I can't count on them. That's where she does hold the power. She works in a young sort of industry with plenty of social opportunities and lots of work friends. WHile I work in a stagnant environment surrounded by no like minded people (although I earn a very decent salary). This is partially my fault, I guess I've become lazy / complacent in the marriage. What I know for sure is that even if there is no other guy, she'd slip into a couple of social groups with ease and be back on her feet in no time, whereas I'd struggle. And that's where I'm having problems at the moment in my mind.


OP, This is so understandable. Try doing it after a life time with someone then separating!!!

I would suggest you start right now making the connections within that circle of friends you have of your own with the men. Start involving yourself away from your wife but still within the comforts of your inner circle that you both share. It's goning to be a tough road ahead, you're going to need the friendship and support. 

~sammy


----------



## weightlifter

>Any ideas how I make peace with the fact that he’ll continue to be around? <

Don't

She sounds like shes playing the 'you are controlling' card.

She wants to go out with an affair partner.

Really!?

Wives getting drunk away from husbands are recipes for disaster. Just ask RTBP and MANY others whose names escape me ATM.

getting drunk is not social drinking. One glass of wine is social drinking.


----------



## Gerrard

Hicks said:


> Yeah, she has to stop going out for drinks and socializing in mixed company (especially this person) without you.
> 
> IT was never a good idea in the first place, but now it's proven to be something that is not compatible with your marriage.
> 
> The bottom line is you must ask her to decide if she wants a) happy hour with her co workers or b) her marriage to you.
> 
> Offering her this choice is not controlling her. Allow her to be free to choose one of the other. But, you must be willing to divorce her if she chooses happy hour. This may sound extreme, but it's super important that social drinking in mixed company ends.


Agree. But I'm feeling completely reasonable about it. If she wants to have a drink or two after work on a friday, coming home at a decent hour, I'm genuinely cool with it. Because I do know she has really good friends there. But staying out until 9 and coming home drunk is definitely not on.


----------



## weightlifter

And you have ANY proof this was not physical?


----------



## Hicks

Gerrard said:


> Agree. But I'm feeling completely reasonable about it. If she wants to have a drink or two after work on a friday, coming home at a decent hour, I'm genuinely cool with it. Because I do know she has really good friends there. But staying out until 9 and coming home drunk is definitely not on.


Can you answer why you are OK with her going out for drinks socially with co workers? This is a serious question. There are good reasons to be OK with this and terrible reasons to be OK with this, and I don't want to make assumptions.


----------



## Cubby

A really bad idea to let your wife go out for those regular after work drinking outings. Especially with the guy she got inappropriately close to and is attracted to. Drinking + guy she digs = trouble 

You two are going through some tough times and are working on improving your marriage. If she insists that she has to attend the Friday night drink activity, then that tells you how serious she is about working on the marriage.


----------



## OldWolf57

Look, you seem determine to stick this out no matter what.
So at least put a pause on all future large purchases, an kids.

1st, you never saw the txt's saying to work on the marriage. 2nd, for a guy that won't get involved with a married woman they did a lot of txting.
3rd, drunk parking lot sex happen all time.
4th, all info you have came from her. You NEVER verified anything.
5th, she is always going to be attracted to big guys, which you are not, and all the working out won't change that.

Personally I wouldn't gamble on a future with this woman.


----------



## OldWolf57

AND, ok so he won't, BUT what about the big guy at the gym that will show her a few work out pointers.

She's just too iffy for me, but you are not me.
So I'll just wish you the best.


----------



## Chaparral

Quote


Gerrard said:


> Agree. But I'm feeling completely reasonable about it. If she wants to have a drink or two after work on a friday, coming home at a decent hour, I'm genuinely cool with it. Because I do know she has really good friends there. But staying out until 9 and coming home drunk is definitely not on.


Why cant you meet up with them on Fridays? The weekends should be for the two of you.

You've only seen the tip of the iceberg. If its been over for three weeks, why did she bother bringing it up to her girl friend who felt it necessary to rat her out through her husband. 

You seem very dense. Reread your thread, you have followed almost none of the advice seasoned veterans here have given you. Advice that has worked over and over.

As long as they work together the affair is on. They are still going to be friends and drinking buddies? Dense doesn't even start to describe it. With your lackadaisical approach, the best advice for you is to start a little black book with women's names in it. You're going to need it.

By the way he's a great guy too, he doesn't f8ck married women anymore!!!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

By the way print this off and give it to your wife. A poster called findingmyway posted this. Your wife has been had. 

By the way, she was coming home drunk AND well laid.

*My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.
*unquote


----------



## Gerrard

OldWolf57 said:


> Look, you seem determine to stick this out no matter what.
> So at least put a pause on all future large purchases, an kids.
> 
> 1st, you never saw the txt's saying to work on the marriage. 2nd, for a guy that won't get involved with a married woman they did a lot of txting.
> 3rd, drunk parking lot sex happen all time.
> 4th, all info you have came from her. You NEVER verified anything.
> 5th, she is always going to be attracted to big guys, which you are not, and all the working out won't change that.
> 
> Personally I wouldn't gamble on a future with this woman.


I do hear where you're coming from. Believe me. But rest assured I am putting a time limit on this. I can't wait forever for her to come around properly. 

Drunk parking lot sex - of course its always a possibility. Scary as hell to think about. But you'll have to trust me on this that I honestly don't think so. And that's not blind love talking. Because I've become skeptical of EVERYTHING. 

Also, quite hard to verify anything when all convo's were verbal or Whatsapp. All I have right now is her behaviour to observe. Which I'm watching ever so closely.


----------



## happy as a clam

OldWolf57 said:


> 5th, she is always going to be attracted to big guys, which you are not, and all the working out won't change that.


Gerrard... I HAVE to agree with this statement. Besides the fact that my marriage was f*cked for 20 years... when I finally left, I found my perfect mate, my lover, my partner in every way... a big 'ole guy who is a powerlifter... he can wrap his arms around me 3 times, and outweighs me by 100 lbs -- not an ounce of fat... pure muscle.

My ex and I were almost the same size. Difference of 20 lbs (and I'm small). Not a thing he could do to raise his "sex quotient" or sex appeal.

Not his fault for being small, but being an emotionally abusive jerk who was a skunk to women -- me and his mother *(little man's syndrome)* was MOST DEFINITELY his fault...


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## Chaparral

Gerrard said:


> I do hear where you're coming from.*No, I don't think so* Believe me. But rest assured I am putting a time limit on this. I can't wait forever for her to come around properly.
> 
> Drunk parking lot sex - of course its always a possibility. Scary as hell to think about. But you'll have to trust me on this that I honestly don't think so.*This line is repeated here over and over* And that's not blind love talking*Yes it is exactly what you are doing*. Because I've become skeptical of EVERYTHING. *Obviously not*
> 
> Also, quite hard to verify anything when all convo's were verbal or Whatsapp.*That's why you were told how to put a var in her car and use wondershare to get the texts* All I have right now is her behaviour to observe.*you will learn to tell when a cheater lies by watching their mouth, if its moving they are lying. BTW, shes already shown/told you she was cheating, you just wont believe it.* Which I'm watching ever so closely.* good luck with that, haven't seen it work before.*


She told you weeks ago she wasn't interested in you, she told you and others she had a crush on another man. You are listening to her only when she says what you want to hear.

People that cheat with co workers cheat by going in early, coming in late, taking off work during the day, going out to lunch together, taking vacation days but pretending to go to work, taking sick days. Do it in the office, store room, warehouse, bathroom, bosses office etc. to infinity. And the number one winner is .............. after work having drinks with coworkers and/or friends.

Betrayed husbands deny, deny, deny ad nauseum.

Did you use find my phone to check on her where abouts? Did you put a var in her car and house? 
Does she have a burner phone? Did you keylog the computer? Did you put wondershare on her phone?

No


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## ReidWright

Gerrard said:


> Also, quite hard to verify anything when all convo's were verbal or Whatsapp.


wondershare dr. fone undeletes whatsapp messages if you hook it up to the phone


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## sammy3

OP,

We're always the last to know... 

~sammy


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## terrence4159

poor poor man she has already been physical with him. my first marriage died when my XW's mother took her out to the bar on her birthday ohh this isnt a problem i thought.....LOL LOL LOL she was riding a new guy within a month. 

GNO (girl nights out) have no place in a marriage.


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## Cubby

Gerrard, she already admits she's not attracted to you physically. So now you give her the green light to continue with her Friday night drinking crew. Do you think that makes you appear more attractive in her eyes?

Women are attracted to strong, firm, take-no-crap guys. She's already crapped all over you, and now you're asking for more by letting her spend time (drinking time!) with the other guy.


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## GusPolinski

Gerrard said:


> I do hear where you're coming from. Believe me. But rest assured I am putting a time limit on this. I can't wait forever for her to come around properly.
> 
> Drunk parking lot sex - of course its always a possibility. Scary as hell to think about. But you'll have to trust me on this that I honestly don't think so. And that's not blind love talking. Because I've become skeptical of EVERYTHING.
> 
> *Also, quite hard to verify anything when all convo's were verbal or Whatsapp.* All I have right now is her behaviour to observe. Which I'm watching ever so closely.





ReidWright said:


> wondershare dr. fone undeletes whatsapp messages if you hook it up to the phone


OP, read this...



GusPolinski said:


> Wondershare Dr. Fone
> 
> The above link is for the Mac version of Wondershare's Dr. Fone app. There is a Windows version available as well.
> 
> You can use the app in one of three ways...
> 
> 1. Start the app on your Mac or PC and connect the iPhone in order to export texts (SMS/iMessage, and even some 3rd party apps), pics, recent phone calls, voicemails, contacts, etc directly from the phone.
> 
> 2. Start the app and use it to export the same data from one or more locally-stored iTunes backups of the phone.
> 
> 3. Start the app and log into iCloud using the Apple iTunes user ID (this will be an e-mail address) and password that your wife uses w/ her phone. If she has iCloud backups enabled on her phone, you'll be able to use the app to download several of the most recent backups for her phone, and then export the data mentioned above from them.
> 
> The app will allow you to export any of the above data that hasn't been deleted, _as well as *at least some of* what has been recently deleted_. If you don't find anything conclusive on the first pass, you can always begin exporting once or twice a day.
> 
> Make sure that you save and back up your exports! Use a USB memory stick or external hard drive (something that you can hide easily) to store them and, once you feel that you have enough evidence, consider leaving it in a safe deposit box. Additionally, store everything offsite in at least a couple of different "Cloud" locations (Carbonite, Dropbox, Google Drive, SugarSync, etc). When doing this, make sure that you're simply uploading the data instead of syncing it from your local Mac or PC; if you're simply syncing, and your wife finds and deletes the data locally, you'll lose your Cloud-based backups.


You're welcome. :smthumbup:


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## phillybeffandswiss

Chaparral said:


> she told others she had a crush on another man.


This. 

Actually, it is blind love talking. She told you a bunch of truths and then told her friend even more. This WOMAN, who is her friend, was so worried she told her husband. 




> He says to me that my wife told his about this other guy at work, and how they'd been messaging each other.


Do you know how many threads we have where husbands, wives as well, WISH some of their "don't ask, don't tell," none of my business, so called "friends" would have given them a heads up? This is a rhetorical question. I wouldn't have brought it up if it wasn't a majority.

Think on that long and hard. There is a guy code, but there is a gal code as well. A WOMAN told her husband about your wife's "secret" crush. She knew, or told him to, her husband would tell you.

That means it is more serious than you can imagine.


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## commonsenseisn't

What? You forgave her so easily and without any consequences?

Yoga? Are you kidding me?

"Make peace with the idea the other guy is still in the picture?"

Why don't you just fall on your knees and beg her to repeat the infidelity?


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## Lostinthought61

Gerrand, 
I will honest with I personally feel your in your own fog, I think your buying all of this with out proof and with no transpancy.....you really have a lot of growing up to do.....but if you enjoy living your life this way then who am I nor who is anyone on here to tell you differently.


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## Gerrard

Contrary to all replies on here, I'm actually being pretty firm about it. Last night I said to her that the drinking with colleagues stops now if she's serious about moving on. I said that if it does carry on it shows a clear message to me, and I'll walk if it does because it will show me what she really wants. She's agreed to it. There wasn't any fight about it - I didn't allow any negotiating on it.


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## livnlearn

Gerrard said:


> Contrary to all replies on here, I'm actually being pretty firm about it. Last night I said to her that the drinking with colleagues stops now if she's serious about moving on. I said that if it does carry on it shows a clear message to me, and I'll walk if it does because it will show me what she really wants. She's agreed to it. There wasn't any fight about it - I didn't allow any negotiating on it.


I hope you understand that you must to be prepared to "walk" then. Even if she just goes once..even if she just goes for a few minutes..even if she "just had to stop by to give somebody something..I didn't even have a drink". Get the picture? Non-negotiable.


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## missthelove2013

he says: "I will fight for us"
she hears: "He will keep paying the bills and be my backup in case new boyfriend falls through"

just sayin...stop saying crap like this...if you go 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes in total 180, yet utter this just once, youve DESTROYED the time spent in 180


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## missthelove2013

She is placating you
the ONLY reason she agreed to this is because the OM is NOT available...but she learned a valuable lesson...she learned how easy it is to cheat on you...NO repercussions...not much fuss

How can you base ALL of your decisions on what SHE tells you...you cant trust her at this point...you gathered NO real info yourself...hell man go read all the cwi threads and see the lies women told their bs's until proof was found...it is amazing the depths of deception ws's will sink to

The bummer is she did it once...learned how easy and painless it was...also has a lessons learned memo in her head so next time she wont get caught...she will do it again...sorry...if a child steals a cookie and is not punished, the child will smile and appologize and placate...and will definitely steal another cookie...the child learned nothing...cheating women are like children...spank that ass and spank it good

she should also quit that job, give you full access to ALL her social media, and cut out after work activities unless your there


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## weightlifter

Think it is misdirection. May have been an ea with coworker... She is aiming at the gym rat.


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## synthetic

When a wife tells you she's not sure if she's ever been attracted to you after only 2 years of marriage and no kids, you simply file for divorce and dump the b1tch.

Affair or no affair it doesn't matter. You're only 29 for crying out loud. Loads of opportunities to live a happy life and you're settling for this crap?! sigh...

Run and dodge the bullet while you can. Tomorrow will be late.


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## Cubby

synthetic said:


> When a wife tells you she's not sure if she's ever been attracted to you after only 2 years of marriage and no kids, you simply file for divorce and dump the b1tch.
> 
> Affair or no affair it doesn't matter. You're only 29 for crying out loud. Loads of opportunities to live a happy life and you're settling for this crap?! sigh...
> 
> Run and dodge the bullet while you can. Tomorrow will be late.


It's really hard to argue with this. The fact that he's only 29 and there are so many women out there that, unlike his wife, WILL be attracted to him.


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## Gerrard

Hi all

Been a while since I posted here. Not going to re-hash the whole back story again. All I’m going to say is that over the past 2 months my wife has come around. She’s given me her full commitment to the future, and we’re talking houses, starting for kids next year etc. So that’s positive. I sort of did the 180 and it served me well. Don’t take this the wrong way, but I also had to stop coming on here for a while because I found I was overthinking things and needed to follow my own path. I’ve been lifting weights, have gone out more, started improving my wardrobe etc.
However, now the problem lies with me. I know she went through a strange patch and the opertaion etc didn’t help, but I keep rehashing the things she said to me. Even in doing the 180, I still haven’t got over it properly. When the dust settled down and she came around and fully back to me it was great, but I was still left with the scars. In a discussion 2 months ago we agreed that we wouldn’t let ourselves take each other for granted again, that we’d put the effort in, that we’d make attempts at being romantic. For me that made complete sense. I was willing to recognise that in the year or two prior to her bad spell, I had stopped putting effort in – you know, doing the little romantic gestures. 

Since we’ve patched things up and are moving on I have been trying – I’ve been doing the little things like buying flowers every now and then, leaving notes around the house, telling her she’s beautiful. It’s come out of a genuine place and not been forced at all. She is looking really great, its like the operation she had to fix her problems has also resulted in her being glowing. Like me she’s gyming hard and it’s showing. I even organised a hot air balloon trip. Here’s the thing though, I realised a couple of weeks ago that the effort is a one way street. After all we’d agreed on I found she was doing nothing in return. I cant remember the last time she told me I look good. I can’t remember the last time she did any little gesture. I can’t remember the last time she put effort in and went out of her way for me in any way. I can’t think of anything I get from her actually. I can’t remember the last time she initiated sex. She puts out for it once or twice a week, but it still feels to me like an obligation from her side. Even after I’d been away for 6 days recently I felt I had to force the issue with sex a bit. I realise that attraction fades a little bit in relationships when time goes on, but why am I not feeling like she’s attracted to me at all? I get I Love You’s from her all the time, but for me that’s just words. Another thing – I used to be in the majority of her whatsapp and Facebook profile pics, but since we’ve been ok again (about 2 months), still nothing. And I can’t work out why. Is she on some ego trip because she’s looking good. Or is it something to do with me? She’s also got tons of work friends. Works in a young industry and goes to events often.

(BTW, I’ve been doing proper checks on third party activity, and there’s nothing to be found.)

I confronted her about this last week in a controlled discussion with no fighting. I brought up exactly what I was feeling – that we’d agreed that we both needed to work on making effort, yet I was still the only one doing it. Her response was that because of the busyness of life and working on a second job trying to get her photography business going she sort of lost sight of it and didn’t think about it – that life’s got in the way. I said to her guess what, your marriage is part of your life. How long does it take you to say ‘You look good’ for example. We left it at her saying she’d make an effort. My worry is though that if she’s not putting any effort into us, it’s because she’s not feeling anything. So why all the I love you’s and committing to a future with me?

So despite her commitment to our future, me knowing nothing’s going on with 3rd parties, us talking kids. I still have this nagging doubt. I love her, but I don’t want a marriage where effort and attraction is a once sided thing. 

What course from here?


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## Chaparral

Did you read the mmslp book linked to below? At least go to amazon and read the reviews.

Doesn't sound like she's all in.

Also, she still works with her om, can't remember when that's worked out before.

She's acting like she had to settle.....................for plan B.

Get mmslp and follow the MAP plan. If that doesn't work, call it a day.


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## Chaparral

Btw, you need to get a couple of var's and find out how she talking about this with her friends. It really sounds like she's stil ilybnilwy.


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## Chaparral

The more I think about it, the more this sounds like a classic false reconciliation.

Does she still go out on Friday nights? Does she go out with the girls? What "events" does she go to?

I think the only thing that you know is the OM doesn't want to marry her. What he has for you doesnt sound like love.

You've been doing all the heavy lifting when she is the one that broight another man into your marriage. NOTHING you have been doing would have been advised here. Reread your thread, you followed none of the advise you got here. Now your gut is, rightly, telling you something is amiss.

When women cheat, lying is second nature. You have to verify everything.


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## Gerrard

Thanks Chaparral

I read through MMSLP about 3 months ago. I think I need to re-read that section again. 

I may get criticized for this, but I refuse to do the VAR thing. It's just not me, sorry. I've checked phone, computer, ipad, done the whatsapp tricks to see if there's been deleted messages. Nothing. 

I still find it hard to control the friday after work thing. She sometimes still stays until 7. When I have a problem with it she plays the 'controlling' card - that I'm too controlling. FOr me its common mutual respect if she knows I have a problem with it to come home at a decent hour. 

Look, the events she goes to are all real. She FB's about them with galleries etc. Industry events etc. I know he's not there. He works in the back end side of the busines so doesnt attend these things. 

My gut feel really tells me there's nothing going on. I really honestly don't think he's part of the equation anymore. If there was something going on - I know he's single - why doesn't she just then leave me for him?


----------



## LongWalk

Gerrard said:


> Hi all
> 
> Been a while since I posted here. Not going to re-hash the whole back story again. All I’m going to say is that over the past 2 months my wife has come around. She’s given me her full commitment to the future, and we’re talking houses, starting for kids next year etc. So that’s positive. I sort of did the 180 and it served me well. Don’t take this the wrong way, but I also had to stop coming on here for a while because I found I was overthinking things and needed to follow my own path. I’ve been lifting weights, have gone out more, started improving my wardrobe etc.
> 
> *Things haven't stood still here. Machiavelli, the poster who recommended weights was banned permanently. You were one of the last adepts to his philosophy. Perhaps you didn't buy his view completely. Go back and re-read what he first posted you. *
> 
> However, now the problem lies with me. I know she went through a strange patch and the opertaion etc didn’t help, but I keep rehashing the things she said to me. Even in doing the 180, I still haven’t got over it properly. When the dust settled down and she came around and fully back to me it was great, but I was still left with the scars.
> 
> *The operation was to her reproductive system, so of course she has reconsidered her life. Her body is internally scarred. You are psychically scarred. She still has doubts.*
> 
> In a discussion 2 months ago we agreed that we wouldn’t let ourselves take each other for granted again, that we’d put the effort in, that we’d make attempts at being romantic. For me that made complete sense. I was willing to recognise that in the year or two prior to her bad spell, I had stopped putting effort in – you know, doing the little romantic gestures.
> 
> *The little romantic gestures are often over rated.*
> 
> Since we’ve patched things up and are moving on I have been trying – I’ve been doing the little things like buying flowers every now and then, leaving notes around the house, telling her she’s beautiful.
> 
> *If she asked you how your day at work went and told her that you had to fire someone, that would make a bigger impression on her than I love you notes.*
> 
> It’s come out of a genuine place and not been forced at all. She is looking really great, its like the operation she had to fix her problems has also resulted in her being glowing. Like me she’s gyming hard and it’s showing.
> 
> *Do the doctors says she can get pregnant? Do you want to have kids with her?*
> 
> I even organised a hot air balloon trip. Here’s the thing though, I realised a couple of weeks ago that the effort is a one way street. After all we’d agreed on I found she was doing nothing in return. I cant remember the last time she told me I look good. I can’t remember the last time she did any little gesture. I can’t remember the last time she put effort in and went out of her way for me in any way. I can’t think of anything I get from her actually. I can’t remember the last time she initiated sex. She puts out for it once or twice a week, but it still feels to me like an obligation from her side. Even after I’d been away for 6 days recently I felt I had to force the issue with sex a bit. I realise that attraction fades a little bit in relationships when time goes on, but why am I not feeling like she’s attracted to me at all? I get I Love You’s from her all the time, but for me that’s just words. Another thing – I used to be in the majority of her whatsapp and Facebook profile pics, but since we’ve been ok again (about 2 months), still nothing. And I can’t work out why. Is she on some ego trip because she’s looking good. Or is it something to do with me? She’s also got tons of work friends. Works in a young industry and goes to events often.
> 
> *You did the 180 once. It's not recommended that you do it again. If the chemistry between you is non-existent. She feels her sex ranking is higher than yours, then you don't have much choice but to move on.
> 
> It's painful to start over dating again but this isn't working.*
> 
> (BTW, I’ve been doing proper checks on third party activity, and there’s nothing to be found.)
> 
> I confronted her about this last week in a controlled discussion with no fighting. I brought up exactly what I was feeling – that we’d agreed that we both needed to work on making effort, yet I was still the only one doing it. Her response was that because of the busyness of life and working on a second job trying to get her photography business going she sort of lost sight of it and didn’t think about it – that life’s got in the way. I said to her guess what, your marriage is part of your life. How long does it take you to say ‘You look good’ for example. We left it at her saying she’d make an effort. My worry is though that if she’s not putting any effort into us, it’s because she’s not feeling anything. So why all the I love you’s and committing to a future with me?
> 
> *You cannot negotiate desire into existence. This is an unattractive move on your part.*
> 
> So despite her commitment to our future, me knowing nothing’s going on with 3rd parties, us talking kids. I still have this nagging doubt. I love her, but I don’t want a marriage where effort and attraction is a once sided thing.
> 
> What course from here?
> 
> *Divorce her. You don't even know if she can have children really. Among women with endometriosis, up to 30% to 50% may experience infertility, according to Wikipedia.[8] *


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## Chaparral

This there golden rule of reconcilliation. The affair partners can no longer work or associate with each other. They still work together,.they still play together on Fri nights. I.e. the affair has just gone underground.

The reason she isn't gone is because he won't marry her.

Biggest cheater line of all time? "You're controling".

After your last post there is no doubt.


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## toonaive

I think you really need to step it up a good bit. The "love of your life" is playing you. You are just too emotionally involved to see it. You need to work on divorcing her. Yes. Start the divorce process. Once she is served. Her actions after that will tell you whether your marriage still has a chance or not. She needs to experience life without you. But, since you have a reluctance to placing a VAR, I doubt you will do this. You are her cuckold, and I'm sure your wife enjoys you being so. You are only 29. You are still young and have options. Your wife doesn't think you do. But, she knows she does!.....


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## ButtPunch

I don't think you're wife is cheating necessarily but she doesn't seem that into you. Has she ever been able to meet your needs? It could be a love languages thing. I do think you should reread MMSLP as suggested. You need to be a man with options whether you want to be or not.


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## Lostinthought61

Gerrad,
the next time she says something about controlling remind her that they ONLY reason you may sound like that is that she demonstrated a trust issue...and it will take a LONG time to rebuild that with you....shame her


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## phillybeffandswiss

Gerrard said:


> She’s given me her full commitment to the future, and we’re talking houses, starting for kids next year etc.





Gerrard said:


> Here’s the thing though, I realised a couple of weeks ago that the effort is a one way street. After all we’d agreed on I found she was doing nothing in return. I cant remember the last time she told me I look good. I can’t remember the last time she did any little gesture. I can’t remember the last time she put effort in and went out of her way for me in any way. I can’t think of anything I get from her actually. I can’t remember the last time she initiated sex. She puts out for it once or twice a week, but it still feels to me like an obligation from her side. Even after I’d been away for 6 days recently I felt I had to force the issue with sex a bit. I realise that attraction fades a little bit in relationships when time goes on, but why am I not feeling like she’s attracted to me at all? I get I Love You’s from her all the time, but for me that’s just words. Another thing – I used to be in the majority of her whatsapp and Facebook profile pics, but since we’ve been ok again (about 2 months), still nothing. And I can’t work out why. Is she on some ego trip because she’s looking good. Or is it something to do with me? She’s also got tons of work friends. Works in a young industry and goes to events often.


This sounds like the opposite of "full" to me.

You niced her back into the marriage and changed none of the root problems.


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## Openminded

Why doesn't she leave if she's not into you? Because you're the safe, stable bet. Maybe her industry has bad boys she's interested in flirting with for a little excitement but you don't end your marriage for that type. At least if you're smart you don't and she probably knows that. 

Where does that leave you? Unless something drastically changes, your role seems to be to provide a house and children and safety and stability for her. It may be enough for her but I doubt it will be enough for you. 

Until you feel more comfortable that this will work long-term, it would be wise to postpone children.


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## Gerrard

Openminded said:


> Why doesn't she leave if she's not into you? Because you're the safe, stable bet. Maybe her industry has bad boys she's interested in flirting with for a little excitement but you don't end your marriage for that type. At least if you're smart you don't and she probably knows that.
> 
> Where does that leave you? Unless something drastically changes, your role seems to be to provide a house and children and safety and stability for her. It may be enough for her but I doubt it will be enough for you.
> 
> Until you feel more comfortable that this will work long-term, it would be wise to postpone children.


Agree with this. Not just bad boy men types, but female friends who are outgoing, fun and interesting, making me look all the more mundane.


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## synthetic

> but why am I not feeling like she’s attracted to me at all?


Because she's not.

Why would she? You're doing all the unattractive things you could be doing. Read the links in my signature. They're for you.


----------

