# Wife has BPD, I am going crazy



## AmIGoingCrazy

She was diagnosed by a marriage counselor that we visited a few times (until she got mad and refused to go back). The MC told me that she strongly suspected that my wife was BPD and suggested I read the Walking on Eggshells book. That book described my wife to a tee.

I apologize for the long nature of this but I need to get it off my chest and find out if I'm going crazy.

First some background information...

I'm 48 years old and have been married to my current wife for 4 years. I had no children from my previous marriage, she has two. Son is currently 18 starting college this year and Daughter is 21 and married. I adopted my daughter and am in the process of adopting my son. I grew up in a great household with a mother and father who were strict but loving and supportive. I think I turned out pretty darn good thanks to them.

When I met my wife she was a single mom, recently divorced from a verbally abusive loser. They were married at 19 and she was thrown into a situation where she had to be a mother to his 3 children from his previous marriage. She had our son one year into her first marriage. When we married, she relocated from the small town where she had lived her whole life to where I live (300 miles away).

She was making ends meet and doing a great job of raising her two teenage kids. I admired her tenacity and seeming ability to overcome anything to provide for them. Throughout our dating (we dated for a year) she was awesome, displayed a great sense of self. The only inkling I had of a darker side was a comment her brother in law made to me about "you haven't seen her mad yet".

The night of our wedding, after the ceremony, she got upset at our son (14 at the time) because he left his bag containing his toiletries in the trunk of our car. She reached in, grabbed it, and threw it at him. I was shocked as that type of behavior was totally inappropriate to me...I told her so but didn't push it beyond that as it was 1) the first time I’d seen anything like it from her 2) our wedding night, and 3) i chalked it up to stress from wedding, moving etc...

Fast forward a week, we were moving into our new house and my wife and daughter were moving a piece of furniture into position. My daughter said something innocent to my wife and my wife got very upset. She left the room and sat down in the corner of the kitchen refusing to get up and help us move into the house. I'm thinking to myself "Ok that is kind of childish" but I didn't say anything as I didn't want to start a confrontation or call her out in front of my new kids.

During the next year, I began to witness more and more anger from her. She would fly off the handle at our children for minor reasons. By flying off the handle, I mean berate, curse, call them stupid and unthankful. The kids told me she had always been that way when she got mad. Our son is very intelligent but like many kids you have to stay on him to do his homework and study. When he would make a poor grade at school, she would start saying things like "I give up, He's your problem now" in front of him. She would threaten to send him away to a boarding school or back to live with family in the town they came from. I told her that was never going to happen as long as I was in his life.

Then one day about a year after we were married, he told me that he wished she wouldn't threaten to send him away. Later that day, he was out mowing the yard and I told my wife what he had said. She got up and went outside and confronted him about it. He ran into the house, into his room with her on his heels yelling "pack your sh*t up and get out" This all happened very quickly. By the time I got into his room, she was swinging at him. I pulled her off of him and she slapped me, I slapped her back (neither slap was hard enough to leave a trace) and told her to stop. Her response was "Fine, I'll just kill myself". She went to our bathroom and pulled out bottles of pills, opened them and I don't know if she would have taken them or not because I took the pill bottle out of her hand. I told the kids to call 911. By the time the cops arrived she had calmed down dramatically and apologized for her behavior. I told the officers that we had an argument and that we slapped each other (not hard, there were no marks etc.) and that it was over now. I didn't tell them about her attacking our son or the suicide threat/attempt.

After the police left, I told my wife that if she ever did that again, I would divorce her without question. I also told her that we had to go to counseling if she wanted to stay married to me.

I found out later from my kids that when my son was 10, she got mad at him and drove him to an orphanage and left him on the door step. She told him that it would probably break his grandfathers (they were very close) heart and kill him. This thing of threatening abandonment wasn't a new behavior for her.

We began going to marriage counseling. I was interesting that my wife blamed me for everything. It was all my fault. After a few sessions she got mad at the counselor and refused to go back. The counselor told me that she believed that my wife was suffering from BPD and that I should read the book Walking on Egg Shells. I got the book and it was like I was reading a description of my wife. She exhibits almost all of the symptoms and then some that aren't even listed.

I seriously considered divorcing her then, I spoke to a lawyer and almost went through with it but I couldn't get past my concern on how she would react towards our son. I was scared that she would blame him for the divorce and take it out on him. Also I take my marriage vows very seriously and hesitate to go down the divorce road. Ultimately I decided to stay; however, it has caused some real issues.

I have always believed that marriage was built on a foundation of love, trust and respect. Her many BPD behaviors have really caused me to lose respect and trust (When will I step on a landmine again). I have always been a person who did not want to be around someone I can’t respect. I have lost interest in being intimate with her. She has noticed my lack of intimacy and is questioning me about it. I don’t know what to tell her. If I tell her it’s because of her behaviors, she’ll turn it on me…I know that road all too well. 

Lately she’s been very depressed due to foot surgery and has threatened suicide at least 20 times in the last 6 weeks. Once going so far as to put the pills in her mouth before spitting them out. I don’t think she ever means to actually kill herself, she’s just using it to manipulate me.

I’m going crazy I don’t know what to do.


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## Married in VA

Okay, first let me tell you that you are not alone. My STBXW does the same thing and she is sexually impulsive to boot. The symptoms you describe, even the suicidal thoughts/gestures/attempts, are things my STBXW did. You must know that you cannot control her behavior or "fix" her. People with BPD will be broken for life. Some get better with therapy but the prognosis long term is not good. Mine actually swallowed the pills (8 klonopin and several pain killers). She made herself vomit before the ambulance got there. She was taken to the hospital and released WITH NO TIME SPENT IN A PSYCH WARD! Got to love the system. 

BPD has to do with issues from childhood. You don't talk about her childhood but I bet it is not good. My STBXW went through her parents divorce at 5 and a custody battle with mom and dad not getting along at all. There are some other issues in there as well. 

My STBXW has been with 10 guys since January of this year. Each time it is "the one" and then it falls apart a couple of weeks later. She's got a "boyfriend" (we are still married) that she's broke up with 3 times and cheated on once already. I can't wait for the year to be up so I can divorce her legally.


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## Uptown

AIGC, welcome to the TAM forum. "Going crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling if you are living with a BPDer. Of the several dozen mental disorder listed in the DSM-IV, BPD is the ONLY ONE that is notorious for making many of the spouses and partners feel like they may be losing their minds. Indeed, therapists see far more of those folks coming in (to find out if they are going crazy) than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

This "crazy making" behavior of BPDers is so well known that the "Nons" (i.e., nonBPD partners) have given it a name: gaslighting. It is named after the classic 1944 movie "Gaslight," in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy so as to get her institutionalized, allowing him to run off with her family jewels. One of his many tricks is to turn the home's gas lights down a tiny bit every day -- all the while claiming that he is able to see and read just fine.

Actually, the vast majority of the crazy making behavior of BPDers is not intended to make you feel crazy. Rather, it is the result of their subconscious minds protecting their fragile egos by projecting all their mistakes and shortcomings onto their spouses. 

The beauty of projection -- and the reason that BPDers rely on it so heavily -- is that it occurs entirely at the subconscious level, allowing the BPDers to be adamantly convinced the projections are true. Hence, unlike lies (which BPDers will do when trapped), the projections are entirely guilt free -- an important attribute to folks who are filled with so much self loathing that guilt is a very painful experience.

I mention all of this to explain why it is so confusing and disorienting to live with a BPDer. Namely, the confusion largely arises because the BPDer spouses sincerely believe the outrageous accusations coming out of their mouths. The nonBPD spouses therefore are left thinking that they must have done something wrong to cause their spouses to be so upset.

If you have not already done so, I strongly recommend that you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com. It is so large that there are 8 separate message boards. The ones that may be most helpful to you are the "Staying," "Leaving," and "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD" boards. 

I suggest that, while you are there, you check out the articles on the resources page. My favorite is Article 9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York. If you decide to divorce, I recommend you get a copy of _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist._ It was released last year by Randi Kreger, the same woman who wrote the _Eggshells_ book you already read.

Like you and MarriedinVA, I was married to a BPDer -- for 15 years in my case. If you would like to read about my experiences, please see my three posts in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. Take care, AIGC.


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## missmolly

Married in VA,

our youngest daughter is a serious BPD and we believe that she had a loving and safe childhood. My other two children support this. My husband and I are continually trying to support her through her self mutilating and harmful behaviour. 
It breaks our hearts whenever we hear the 'bad childhood theory'. Whilst I know this to be true for a lot of these cases, there are also quite a few who have not had a traumatic childhood. 
I can't tell you how many hours I have agonised over how she came to be the way she is, if I didn't protect her enough or could have done anything differently . 
We rarely left our children in the care of others and it was usually grandparents who I have no doubts about. Although I was a working mother, it was part time and I was always able to work shifts which fitted in with my husband's work. I trust my husband 100% with the children and I am not a blind, blinkered fool.
We have never been able to come up with childhood issues which could have led to her disorder. She has had plenty of external adolescent and adult experiences which were rather hideous, but these have all been a result of, rather than a cause of her troubles.


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## missmolly

I forgot to add
My heart goes out to anyone dealing with this as I know first hand how it hurts whole families. 
To discover that a life partner has this affliction would be more than I could bear and I don't think that I could live with it.


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## AmIGoingCrazy

Uptown, thanks for the response and the recommendations.


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## Uptown

missmolly said:


> Our youngest daughter is a serious BPD and we believe that she had a loving and safe childhood.... It breaks our hearts whenever we hear the 'bad childhood theory'.


Molly, due to the enormous expense, only one study has ever been done to determine the prevalence of BPD in the general population. That study (pub. 2008) found the prevalence to be 6%, based on face to face interviews with nearly 35,000 American adults.

I mention this because the study also found that 30% of the BPDers reported that they did NOT experience abuse or abandonment in childhood. This finding is generally interpreted to strongly suggest that BPD can arise _solely from genetics alone _(as well as from a combination of genetics and abuse) -- a finding that has brought great comfort to millions of parents who have a BPDer child even though they were very nurturing and supportive of that child. 

I say the results _"strongly suggest"_ that interpretation because no scientist has yet proven, to a certainty, what it is that causes BPD. The full results of the study are available at no cost at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions. Take care, Molly.


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## missmolly

Thanks for the info Uptown, I will read what you have suggested.

Am I Going Crazy - I wish there was something I could say to ease your pain. I sooooooo empathise with you.


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## KathyBatesel

It's also possible that people who had a generally good childhood experienced trauma elsewhere, such as at school or church, and have repressed the memories or are afraid to acknowledge them.


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## anony2

Uptown said:


> AIGC, welcome to the TAM forum. "Going crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling if you are living with a BPDer. Of the several dozen mental disorder listed in the DSM-IV,* BPD is the ONLY ONE that is notorious for making many of the spouses and partners feel like they may be losing their minds*. Indeed, therapists see far more of those folks coming in (to find out if they are going crazy) than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.


This is incorrect. NPD also is known for crazy making.

NARCISSIST, SOCIOPATH, NARCISSISM - CRAZY MAKING CYCLES | NARCISSIST, SOCIOPATH, NARCISSISM

Characteristics of narcissistic mothers - Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers


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## tiredandout

Living with someone suffering from this condition is no picnic! Some months ago, I realized my partner has many of the symptoms of BPD as well (not diagnosed). Providing the best help for me have been:

The Stop Walking On Eggshells *Workbook* — the book gives you a clear idea on what you're dealing with, along with engaging you in exercises that really force you to realize 1) what the pwBPD is going through 2) how this affects you 3) what can you do to make it better on your part. Like in any other relationship problem, also with a BPD the truth is that we, as the non-BPD partner, are also contributing to the situation and the conflicts. In order to improve the situation we need to address our part in the dance.

Secondly, I would sincerely suggest you join the forums on bpdfamily.com. There are amazingly insightful people there sharing their own experiences and encouraging each other to deal with the feelings and conflicts that the BPD/NPD relationship entails. 

My husband is not in therapy, nor is he admitting to having any problem. Dispite of this, I already notice a change in our relationship, just based on me changing the way I interract with her. Every day is a new lesson and I keep realizing more and more, how my issues have also affected us ending up in a rut and how _I_ can stop enabling my husband's crazy. This also forces him to take responsibility for his own actions and feelings more and more. This change is extremely difficult!! But at this point I feel very strongly that it will be worth it.

Marriage counceling with someone w/ BPD hardly works, as people on the other forum will tell you, because without any tools for dealing with the disorder, the BPD will likely just manipulate the situation. I strongly suggest you to get counceling of your own. Dealing with a BPD can make us non's feel insane at times, and if our feelings of confusion, fear and anger go untreated, they will start to reak havoc in the relationship as well. Put yourself first, take care of You. Finding an outside person to talk about these feelings can help you give clarity and the confidence to make the right choice for you and your son.

((Edit: Oh wooops, Uptown had already suggested bpdfamily. Well, I'll leave it there as it has really been a life saving community for me.))


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## kcguy

AmIGoingCrazy said:


> She was diagnosed by a marriage counselor that we visited a few times (until she got mad and refused to go back). The MC told me that she strongly suspected that my wife was BPD and suggested I read the Walking on Eggshells book. That book described my wife to a tee.
> 
> I apologize for the long nature of this but I need to get it off my chest and find out if I'm going crazy.
> 
> First some background information...
> 
> I'm 48 years old and have been married to my current wife for 4 years. I had no children from my previous marriage, she has two. Son is currently 18 starting college this year and Daughter is 21 and married. I adopted my daughter and am in the process of adopting my son. I grew up in a great household with a mother and father who were strict but loving and supportive. I think I turned out pretty darn good thanks to them.
> 
> When I met my wife she was a single mom, recently divorced from a verbally abusive loser. They were married at 19 and she was thrown into a situation where she had to be a mother to his 3 children from his previous marriage. She had our son one year into her first marriage. When we married, she relocated from the small town where she had lived her whole life to where I live (300 miles away).
> 
> She was making ends meet and doing a great job of raising her two teenage kids. I admired her tenacity and seeming ability to overcome anything to provide for them. Throughout our dating (we dated for a year) she was awesome, displayed a great sense of self. The only inkling I had of a darker side was a comment her brother in law made to me about "you haven't seen her mad yet".
> 
> The night of our wedding, after the ceremony, she got upset at our son (14 at the time) because he left his bag containing his toiletries in the trunk of our car. She reached in, grabbed it, and threw it at him. I was shocked as that type of behavior was totally inappropriate to me...I told her so but didn't push it beyond that as it was 1) the first time I’d seen anything like it from her 2) our wedding night, and 3) i chalked it up to stress from wedding, moving etc...
> 
> Fast forward a week, we were moving into our new house and my wife and daughter were moving a piece of furniture into position. My daughter said something innocent to my wife and my wife got very upset. She left the room and sat down in the corner of the kitchen refusing to get up and help us move into the house. I'm thinking to myself "Ok that is kind of childish" but I didn't say anything as I didn't want to start a confrontation or call her out in front of my new kids.
> 
> During the next year, I began to witness more and more anger from her. She would fly off the handle at our children for minor reasons. By flying off the handle, I mean berate, curse, call them stupid and unthankful. The kids told me she had always been that way when she got mad. Our son is very intelligent but like many kids you have to stay on him to do his homework and study. When he would make a poor grade at school, she would start saying things like "I give up, He's your problem now" in front of him. She would threaten to send him away to a boarding school or back to live with family in the town they came from. I told her that was never going to happen as long as I was in his life.
> 
> Then one day about a year after we were married, he told me that he wished she wouldn't threaten to send him away. Later that day, he was out mowing the yard and I told my wife what he had said. She got up and went outside and confronted him about it. He ran into the house, into his room with her on his heels yelling "pack your sh*t up and get out" This all happened very quickly. By the time I got into his room, she was swinging at him. I pulled her off of him and she slapped me, I slapped her back (neither slap was hard enough to leave a trace) and told her to stop. Her response was "Fine, I'll just kill myself". She went to our bathroom and pulled out bottles of pills, opened them and I don't know if she would have taken them or not because I took the pill bottle out of her hand. I told the kids to call 911. By the time the cops arrived she had calmed down dramatically and apologized for her behavior. I told the officers that we had an argument and that we slapped each other (not hard, there were no marks etc.) and that it was over now. I didn't tell them about her attacking our son or the suicide threat/attempt.
> 
> After the police left, I told my wife that if she ever did that again, I would divorce her without question. I also told her that we had to go to counseling if she wanted to stay married to me.
> 
> I found out later from my kids that when my son was 10, she got mad at him and drove him to an orphanage and left him on the door step. She told him that it would probably break his grandfathers (they were very close) heart and kill him. This thing of threatening abandonment wasn't a new behavior for her.
> 
> We began going to marriage counseling. I was interesting that my wife blamed me for everything. It was all my fault. After a few sessions she got mad at the counselor and refused to go back. The counselor told me that she believed that my wife was suffering from BPD and that I should read the book Walking on Egg Shells. I got the book and it was like I was reading a description of my wife. She exhibits almost all of the symptoms and then some that aren't even listed.
> 
> I seriously considered divorcing her then, I spoke to a lawyer and almost went through with it but I couldn't get past my concern on how she would react towards our son. I was scared that she would blame him for the divorce and take it out on him. Also I take my marriage vows very seriously and hesitate to go down the divorce road. Ultimately I decided to stay; however, it has caused some real issues.
> 
> I have always believed that marriage was built on a foundation of love, trust and respect. Her many BPD behaviors have really caused me to lose respect and trust (When will I step on a landmine again). I have always been a person who did not want to be around someone I can’t respect. I have lost interest in being intimate with her. She has noticed my lack of intimacy and is questioning me about it. I don’t know what to tell her. If I tell her it’s because of her behaviors, she’ll turn it on me…I know that road all too well.
> 
> Lately she’s been very depressed due to foot surgery and has threatened suicide at least 20 times in the last 6 weeks. Once going so far as to put the pills in her mouth before spitting them out. I don’t think she ever means to actually kill herself, she’s just using it to manipulate me.
> 
> I’m going crazy I don’t know what to do.


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## kcguy

Your last part about her behavior, in your state, I am surprised about your response about how she would treat your son. 1. Get her to a Dr, and get a perfessional Diagnosis. 2. Get her on medication. 3. Use this as the basis for sole legal, physical and primay Custody of the child. 4. Do supervised visitation and if she ever hits the kids again have her ass arrrested. You are enabling the sick chick. These woman are manipualitve, controling, you have been brainwashed and fear her. That's their game bro. Untangle yourself from her control of 12 year old behavior, you made a choice, you didn't know what you were getting into. you read the book. They are great actors. No one is getting this woman treatment and I don't know if she would be compliant, as 95% of BDP's aren't and this is the most difficult personality disorder to treat. Run!!!! Run like hell, because you are already in there. Sorry bro. Been there, left there.. Still working on the scars that I got from being there.. Grow a set and get your son, get a good attorney and get the hell out. she's sick. You start the paper trail. Oh. btw. these people are very intelligent too. So, don't tell anyone.. she is probably reading your post. Good luck. PS. I bet if you talked to her ex... Just like she blamed you for everything that goes wrong, is wrong, you are the fault of the problems in her life?... Think about what you said about her previous marriage.. She left because HE was abusive and now your seeing HER being verbally, physically, mentally and probably sexually abusive.. I bet she controls the sex between the two of you. has to control everything..


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## kcguy

kcguy said:


> Your last part about her behavior, in your state, I am surprised about your response about how she would treat your son. 1. Get her to a Dr, and get a perfessional Diagnosis. 2. Get her on medication. 3. Use this as the basis for sole legal, physical and primay Custody of the child. 4. Do supervised visitation and if she ever hits the kids again have her ass arrrested. You are enabling the sick chick. These woman are manipualitve, controling, you have been brainwashed and fear her. That's their game bro. Untangle yourself from her control of 12 year old behavior, you made a choice, you didn't know what you were getting into. you read the book. They are great actors. No one is getting this woman treatment and I don't know if she would be compliant, as 95% of BDP's aren't and this is the most difficult personality disorder to treat. Run!!!! Run like hell, because you are already in there. Sorry bro. Been there, left there.. Still working on the scars that I got from being there.. Grow a set and get your son, get a good attorney and get the hell out. she's sick. You start the paper trail. Oh. btw. these people are very intelligent too. So, don't tell anyone.. she is probably reading your post. Good luck. PS. I bet if you talked to her ex... Just like she blamed you for everything that goes wrong, is wrong, you are the fault of the problems in her life?... Think about what you said about her previous marriage.. She left because HE was abusive and now your seeing HER being verbally, physically, mentally and probably sexually abusive.. I bet she controls the sex between the two of you. has to control everything..


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

My ex h has diagnosed BPD. I tried my best to get him help. It was useless. He did not want to get back on medication to control his anger and rages. My ex was very abusive. He also self medicated illegally with smoking and was unfaithful. 18 years later, everything is still my fault. He always puts the blame on others for his very poor behavior and misery. We had one child. After I found out about the unfaithfulness I left. I should of left due to the abuse. I could not stop visitation fully with my child, but it was limited. In the short time he saw her, he tore her apart emotionally. I didn't find out until my child was much older and he wanted nothing to do with her since the age of 14-15. He won't let his child contact her siblings either. If he finds out she calls, he hangs up. Her siblings no longer will speak to her either. My ex told his children that their sister hates them which is far from the truth. My child spent nights in her room crying due to being cut off from that family.

My ex left me abandoned several times. I was in my 9th month of pregnancy and he kicked me out of my car in the pouring rain in the dark on city streets. He left me stranded several times where I had to call for a ride. The anger in him is nothing I'd ever seen before. I was always told how worthless I was. I certainly did not meet up to his expectations until I left.

Once I left, it was a big weight lifted off my shoulders. He stalked me for a year. One of his gf's at the time moved in 3 days after I left. They are now married and he's had several affairs on her. I'm not sure what she expected when she knew he was married to me and she slept with him.

I remarried a few years later and I couldn't be happier. My current husband is the polar opposite from my ex. He's kind, gentle, always putting my needs first, a great father, ect... I made the right decision the second time around.

Good luck. Unless she recognizes she has an illness, she will never get help.


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## jmsclayton

HI Missmolly and AmIgoingcrazy: (besides to all) (daughter and wife) 

I know someone who is BPD. Part of it has to do with rejection and broken attachment. Of any kind. Even if it is perceived and wasnt real rejection-the child still sees it as rejection for whatever reason (any circumstance can lead to a perceived rejection that is not real)-That is why the behavior continues is becase of the rejection. BPD IS about rejection. Self protect to keep from experience rejection. Like your wife-she is protecting herself among other factors of losing the kid by rejecting him first. 

Most of it leads from that. Lies to self protect. etc. Even if the kids come up in a mostly healthy home and still experiences perceived rejection when it is not real rejection or rejection -it still causes an eruption in an attachment that is hard to get back. 

Cogntivie Behavior Therapy is about address the thought process that led to the behavior as well as the reverse-and then address the feeling that is contributing to the behavior . 

The key is to address the behavior adn then the thought process will change. Even if she doesnt go to counseling-I know someone who said that learning in real life does better than office. The key is if you can be a broken record until it sinks into the brain-by repeating what you have said before during and after a fear of rejection-then she can start catching herself. The key is get info and read everything you can get your hands on and keep a list in front of you. IF the person truly wants to change -it can be manageable. In the midst of all the other adult stuff. and teen stuff. 

Judith


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## Uptown

anony2 said:


> This is incorrect. NPD also is known for crazy making.


Anony, you are right, of course, that NPD can result in crazy making. Indeed, all PDs can and one of the worst is NPD. I should have said "the most notorious" is BPD. My understanding is that there are several reasons for this.

One reason is that, unlike NPDers, BPDers are capable of truly loving their spouses, albeit in an immature fashion. The spouses, being so certain that the BPDers do love them, are often willing to spend many years trying to figure out what they are doing wrong -- an impossible task that results in their feeling like they may be going crazy. In contrast, the spouses of NPDers are more likely to figure out that they are being used, not loved, because true love is never given.

A second reason is that, whereas NPDers are emotionally stable, BPDers are not. Instead, the BPDers repeatedly flip back and forth between intensely loving their spouse and intensely hating him. This black-white treatment, which flips from one polar extreme to the other, is usually triggered in ten seconds by minor comments or actions. It therefore is extremely disorienting to the spouses who, after seeing such an outpouring of adoration and love, are convinced that they must have done something wrong -- if only they can figure out what it was. Significantly, when a BPDer is good, she is very VERY good.

Once a spouse has been subjected to this cycle a dozen times -- being alternately adored and hated -- he starts feeling like an addict who is alternating between heroine highs one week and heroine withdrawal pains the next. This addictive nature of BPD relationships greatly adds to the crazy making effect on spouses and partners.

A third reason is that, while a BPDer is splitting her spouse "white," she will attempt to mirror all the best features of his personality (because she has such a fragile sense of who she really is). The result is that the spouses, not realizing that mirroring is occurring, often have the intense feeling that the BPDer is his "soul mate" and he won't find anyone else that is such a perfect match. He therefore has a powerful incentive to redouble his efforts to figure out what he is doing wrong so as to "restore" his BPDer partner back to the perfect match he has seen on so many occasions. 

Accordingly, therapist Shari Schreiber concludes that _"When you feel as though you're losing your mind, you're very likely with a Borderline. These people are narcissistic, but there are features to this personality disorder that make you feel like you can't make sense of their behaviors."_ See GettinBetter.com's NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY FORUM.


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## Married in VA

Missmolly,
There are no hard and fast rules about what causes BPD. Even if there were such rules, there would always be exceptions. My experiences with my STBXW and knowing her history, suggest a childhood cause of her BPD. I would assume, like any other disease or disorder, than anyone can get it at anytime. I do believe I have read cases where the BPD didn't show up until adulthood. My STBXW's behavior suggests full on BPD which, for her, is getting worse. I do feel for all those who know and/or live with people who suffer from this affliction.


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## ShawnD

AmIGoingCrazy said:


> I seriously considered divorcing her then,
> ....
> Lately she’s been very depressed due to foot surgery and has threatened suicide


God never closes a door without opening a window.

stay with her:
You and your children continue being verbally and physically abused.

Leave her:
You will lose half of your stuff and she will very likely get custody simply because she's a woman. Without you there to protect them, your children will be abused even more.

She kills herself:
You keep all of your stuff and you keep all of your children and the abuse ends forever.






> There are no hard and fast rules about what causes BPD


A lot of mental issues are a combination of genetics and environment. You can put two people in the same brutal environment and only one of them turns out nuts. One easily observable example of this is Shell Shock also known as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Why is it that thousands and sometimes millions of people can go to war, and only some of them have shell shock? Not every brain can tolerate that kind of environment. Some people can just shrug it off and say it really sucked to be in a war. Some people can't take it and they end up killing themselves. Some people get shell shock.


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## AmIGoingCrazy

ShawnD said:


> God never closes a door without opening a window.
> 
> stay with her:
> You and your children continue being verbally and physically abused.
> 
> Leave her:
> You will lose half of your stuff and she will very likely get custody simply because she's a woman. Without you there to protect them, your children will be abused even more.
> 
> She kills herself:
> You keep all of your stuff and you keep all of your children and the abuse ends forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of mental issues are a combination of genetics and environment. You can put two people in the same brutal environment and only one of them turns out nuts. One easily observable example of this is Shell Shock also known as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Why is it that thousands and sometimes millions of people can go to war, and only some of them have shell shock? Not every brain can tolerate that kind of environment. Some people can just shrug it off and say it really sucked to be in a war. Some people can't take it and they end up killing themselves. Some people get shell shock.


Keep in mind that my daughter is now 22, happily married and living with her husband. My son is now 18 and will be a freshman in college living at home. 

She is still verbally abusive to him, she called him F'n stupid 3 times a couple of weeks ago because he let the cat out by mistake.

It is easy to see both of the "kids" pulling away from her. My daughter's husband can't stand to be around her. He tolerates her for my daughters sake.

They are planning to have their first child in a year, I am scared that I'll never get to see my grandchild because of my wife.


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## missmolly

The key is to address the behavior adn then the thought process will change. Even if she doesnt go to counseling-I know someone who said that learning in real life does better than office. The key is if you can be a broken record until it sinks into the brain-by repeating what you have said before during and after a fear of rejection-then she can start catching herself. The key is get info and read everything you can get your hands on and keep a list in front of you. IF the person truly wants to change -it can be manageable. In the midst of all the other adult stuff. and teen stuff. 

Judith[/QUOTE]

..but if the person is not prepared to make any effort or lacks the insight to identify that he/she even HAS a problem then it is like pushing water uphill with a rake. I can read till the cows come home but that won't make her receptive to anything. 

ShawnD 
Option 3 - she kills herself. The last suicide attempt was so severe that I really thought 'this is it'. She walked into the back of my house with a large knife sticking out of her upper abdomen and then collapsed. As I waited for the ambulance I had a flash of what it would be like if she really died and I am ashamed to admit that for a moment I felt relief. That's pretty hard to live with. 
Major surgery for repair of a severed gastric artery (at my work, by my colleagues) saved her and so we continue to do our best.

Am I Going Crazy
Sorry to hijack your thread - I wish I could offer something useful but can't as I feel the same helplessness myself.


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## ShawnD

missmolly said:


> The last suicide attempt was so severe that I really thought 'this is it'. She walked into the back of my house with a large knife sticking out of her upper abdomen


Yikes! What a horrible way to die. Hopefully she's doing ok.

Self harm is tricky stuff. Putting a person on antidepressants can make a world of difference, good or bad. I've seen people change from extreme depression to almost-normal virtually overnight. There are also horror stories where some drugs can make a person more likely to attempt suicide. It really depends on the person. If the only thing stopping a person is fear of dying, and a drug removes that fear, what else is left to stop them?


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## brokenbythis

Our MC has also indicated my STBXH is BPD. After reading book after book, and all the posts on here about BPD, I totally agree with her.

He has sent me down the crazy path for the past 10 yrs. He has done so many damaging things to our relationship (EAs, lying, verbal abuse and manipulation) and he REFUSES to take an ounce of responsibility for any of it. Instead he blames me for everything wrong in our marriage and our life.

I've had enough. I kicked him out 2 wks ago and am in the process of filing for legal separation. It would be divorce but I desperately need to retain his health insurance for now.

When I asked him to leave he turned on me with a viciousness I had never seen before. He screamed at me and called me names I can't even repeat. He needs SERIOUS help. He's been going to a therapist for about 8 mths but he does not engage in it, does not let his walls down and refuses to acknowledge what the therapist tell him.

He's also on high doses of anti depressants and sleeping pills. Typical: he still calls me every night and talks like everything is ok. I rarely answer the phone just let it go to voicemail. NC is the best thing for me.

I refuse to live the rest of my life with a lying cheater who blames me for everything.


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## missmolly

Uptown said:


> Molly, due to the enormous expense, only one study has ever been done to determine the prevalence of BPD in the general population. That study (pub. 2008) found the prevalence to be 6%, based on face to face interviews with nearly 35,000 American adults.
> 
> I mention this because the study also found that 30% of the BPDers reported that they did NOT experience abuse or abandonment in childhood. This finding is generally interpreted to strongly suggest that BPD can arise _solely from genetics alone _(as well as from a combination of genetics and abuse) -- a finding that has brought great comfort to millions of parents who have a BPDer child even though they were very nurturing and supportive of that child.
> 
> I say the results _"strongly suggest"_ that interpretation because no scientist has yet proven, to a certainty, what it is that causes BPD. The full results of the study are available at no cost at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions. Take care, Molly.


Uptown,
Thank you for your input and I am sorry that I did not see it sooner. Don't know how I missed it.


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## MamavillaS

Your wife has never learned how to deal with stress. She is acting like a kid because inside she has felt rejection from the past and she is reflecting how she feels about herself. I would bet her mother exhibit this type of behavior and she has a lot of anxiety from not being able to be the best like she had been projected on. This type of behavior is learned. You must create boundaries and tell her how far she can push and that you will not accept this type of behavior. She doe not feel safe or loved and she needs to firgure out why she wants to die. Next time she says she wants to die ask her why? Then ask her what inside herself is she trying to escape? Ask her why can she have self control sometimes and not all the time? Deep inside her is anger and she needs to realize her unsaid anger and self hate is destroying her. It has nothing to do withthekids but she sir is having a tantrum. How would you deal with that with a child? You would firgure out why. Did they eat or not take a nap. And another thing it can be as simple as nutrition deficient. Or food allergies. Go buy her some Rhidila from Bee alive itmightbelp her moods.


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## turnera

update?


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## WalterWhite

To the OP, ImIGoingCrazy: Yes you are going crazy because you married an BPD woman. I did that once (not projecting), and after a year of heavy duty therapy, I was told that things would NEVER get much better. I got a 2nd opinion, and in the end I left her, and that was the best thing I could've done. In short, I was told that BPD's NEVER improve in a sustainable way. 

I would suggest that you get out ASAP, but plane it well with an attorney because BPD's become their nastiest when they find out you want to leave them. They hate being left; it just kills them.

It was a huge mistake to adopt her children, so now you have to support them post divorce until they're 18.

I've read many books on BPD's and have spoken to a few therapists that specialize in treating them, and I have concluded that there is never a way to live peacefully with joy with a BPD.

My heart goes out to you...I know first hand how hurtful being in your position can be.


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## girl friday

I am living with someone who I strongly suspect has BPD. He also is an epileptic and was put on drugs for his epilepcy. The drugs he is on are also mood enhancers and they have taken the edge of the BPD symptoms. They are certainly by no means gone but they are definately less in intensity, which makes living with him a little easier. Along with learning to disengage and not take things so personally, my life has become a little easier. Good luck to everyone dealing with it.


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## off the crazy train.

My first ex was BPD. I feel for anyone that is going through what I lived through. "Walking on Eggshells" is a good start and I found a website I think was called the "Nook" that had a message board that helped me a lot. 

I got out but only after I realized it wasn't healthy for me to try to stay in a relationship with a BPD. Even if they recognise or accknowledge that they have the disorder, it can be living hell. And trying to end a marriage with a BPD will bring it all to a new level. The ones posting about the numerous suicide attempts as manipulation tools are telling the truth. I couldn't count how many of those I went through. On one road trip to my daughters home, she had three attempts in 12 hours, twice trying to jump out of a moving vehicle going down the interstate. But 10 minutes after an attempt she would be like it never happened. No medical care would have helped in that case as she would have refused it. 

My login name / handle refers to me getting out of a BPD relationship. I'm "off the crazy train", the chaos they create in the lives around them. My advice to anyone in a relationship with a BPD, love yourself first and GET OUT of the marriage / relationship no matter the financial cost.


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## Tony9871

Terrible to here such bad experiences. My wife is BPD but certainly does not behave in the way many of you have described. She has mood swings but takes pains not to take it out on me or the family. She struggles with anger but takes herself out of the situation. She's caring, loving and very very loyal. She is very black and white so you're either a friend or not, she can't do inbetween like a work colleague. She cannot maintain employment so she works self employed so she can work around her 'emotions' and deal with depressive episodes without a boss hassling her. When she reads about how some with BPD behave she's says she understands the feelings that cause it and the pain they feel because she feels it to but she said they still choose how to react to those feelings. They know right from wrong. Just because they may develop feelings or desire for different people they have the choice to pursue it or not and to sleep around or not. Basically she's feels often some people use their BPD diagnosis as an excuse for bad behaviour but it's not. To her everything is black or white. Being violent or cheating is wrong and her black white view dictates she should do the right thing. If they choose different it's just that, a choice! It's not the BPD making them do it as they may try to say or their partners may believe.

Personally i have found that as long as my wife feels loved and supported it's goes along way in helping her cope with the pain of BPD. She's hyper sensitive and easily hurt. Depressive episodes and constant anxiety plaque her. She views everything from an emotional point of view. This can and does cause conflict but she's able to recognise what's going on and she trusts me enough to guide her to a more logical destination if needed. She's never violent. She does not abuse me. She loves her kids and spends a lot of energy making sure they don't go through what she did as a child. Does she get angry easy? Like most bpds yes. But she recognises it and goes in to another room and stays on her own until it passes. she does not lash out and would hate herself if she did. Does she have strong fears of abandonment? Yes! Does she take it out on me? No. Does she use it as an excuse to sleep with a guy that pays her enough attention? Certainly not. BPD may make the desires stronger for some suffers but to act on that desire is a choice. My wife suffers with being impulsive with money so has chosen​ to put me in charge of the bank and cards. Her choice, i never asked. My point is don't confuse BPD symptoms with the personal choices the BPD may make.

Ive gone on a bit but I just wanted to put it out there that not all bpds are manipulative, abusive or violent or bad people. Some are very caring people who happen to be suffering from emotion pain, emotional instability, lack of impulse control, a distorted black and white view of the world etc and frankly are just trying to keep it together while their emotions run riot in their heads. Some BPDs can be very loyal, loving and supportive partners. I know because i am married to one. And yes she has had a full clinical diagnosis by psychiatrist not some unqualified councilor or some muppet who read a bit on the internet and self diagnosed their partner.


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## Uptown

Tony, welcome to the TAM forum. Like you, I was married to a BPDer woman (15 years in my case). 



Tony9871 said:


> Not all bpds are manipulative, abusive or violent or bad people. Some are very caring people....


I agree, Tony. Indeed, my experience is that the vast majority of BPDers (i.e, those having strong and persistent traits) are good and caring people. Their problem is not being _bad_ but, rather, _unstable_ -- due to their inability to regulate their own emotions.



> My point is don't confuse BPD symptoms with the personal choices the BPD may make.


Actually, the nine BPD symptoms essentially are personal choices, i.e., they are behaviors that are determined by how the person _chooses_ to behave. Although a person is not responsible for how she feels, she nonetheless is responsible for how she chooses to act on those feelings. 

Hence, like a young child, a BPDer should be held accountable for her actions. As you already know, this means you should not protect her (within reason) from the logical consequences of her own bad choices and bad behavior. If you were to become an enabler of her bad behaviors, you would destroy the incentives she has to learn how to make better choices and to learn the emotional skills needed for regulating her own feelings.

Tony, if you would like to discuss this further, I suggest you start your own thread where I would be happy join you. This is a Zombie thread because the OP left nearly five years ago and did not return.


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