# Marriage That Started As a Long Distance Relationship: Am I being too suspicious?



## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Hello 

I got married five months ago. I first met her when we were kids. Then, we lost touch. Then, in 2020, during the early stages of the lockdown, I was searching for this girl. And I found her. Then, from that day onwards, we had been speaking to each other through video calls. I live in the UK while she is 5,000 miles away in North America. I am 50 and she is 48. When I first got back in touch with her, she had been married for over 20 years. Her marriage had broken down over ten years earlier. But, for the sake of her child, she stayed with this husband. But, she slept in a separate bedroom. Then, after I came along, she left her house and then got a divorce. When she left the marriage, she also left her son with the father. The son was 18 at the time. And after getting divorced, I married her. Then, after just one week after the wedding, I had to return to the UK. 
Now, I am waiting to move to North America to live permanently with her. 

We have to carry on living through this long distance relationship. She has her house that I helped her to buy. She lives alone. And I live alone in the UK. We live through video calls at every convenient moment. Despite the 7 hour time difference, I go to bed at about 4 am while it is 9 pm in her country. We do this on most nights. This lifestyle is really not good for me. But, I endure it because I feel unsettled going to bed at a reasonable time of 11 pm when it is still only 4 pm in her country. So, I stay up until she finishes work at 6 pm when it is 1 am in the UK. 

So far, things are generally good. I know she loves and cares about me. And of course, I am in love with her. 

So what are my problems or worries? 

I am having some suspicions and doubts. And I can't speak to her or anyone in my life. May be I am being unreasonably suspicious. So, here is where this forum might be helpful. 

My suspicions:

1. Every Sunday evening, she wants to go to bed early at about 7 pm. It is midnight in the UK. She usually goes to bed at 9 pm. Why 7 pm? Her work on Monday mornings don't need her going to bed early. And on a Monday morning, when I have a video call with her at 6 am her time, she seems really perky and happy. I find this bizarre. She does not like her job. And like most people, Monday mornings are not the time when someone can be so bubbly and playful. She is not normally like this. 
In the end, I try and get her to stay up and talk until about 4.30 am. And the next day, after about 8 hours in bed, she is still waking up perky. 


2. On Thursday and Friday nights, I have to go to bed earlier than usual as I have to get up early for work. So, I don't see her going to bed at the same time as we usually do. This means that she is also happy at 7 pm her time when it is 2 am in the UK. I would ask her "how are you going to spend the evening?" She would say she is going to cook or watch something on YouTube. Then, the next morning, I would find out that she had gone to sleep later than usual at about 10 pm. 
When I see her the next day, it is 12.30 pm in the UK while it is 5.30 am at her country. And she would look tired. 


3. And she works at a school where men come to drop off and pick up their kids. When I was getting to know her two years ago, she said, "All the men who come here love me. The single fathers love. The married men love me."

I was disturbed to hear it. So, I said "didn't anyone ask you out for a date?" She said "No. How can I trust any of these men?" But, don't forget, when I was getting to know, she was still married. She was still living with him, although in a separate bedroom. All our communications were done behind his back, secretly. 

Two years later, she is married to me. Yet, with 5,000 miles apart and with her living alone in a house, I do get suspicious whenever I am not on a video call with her. Am I being too paranoid and distrustful? 

I am suspicious because of two things: Firstly, her mindset that goes "All the men who come here love me." And secondly, she is an attractive woman who looks about 35 and not 48. And she has a child-like innocence and a tactile nature. I fear that it is a statistical inevitability that it takes just one man with a really predator-like manners to succeed in charming a woman like her. 

Last week, she video called me to say that she found a table in the street. A house owner had left it. She wanted to take it our house. I said it looks like "trash." But, she had already dragged it to her school yard. Now, she was looking for a man with a truck to transport it. She does not have a car. 

So, eventually, she got a ride from a man who came to pick up his kids. He gave her a ride. And he then carried the table on one end while my wife carried the other end. They both carried it to the basement. 

As the guy left the house, he was giving her advice about home security. "Make sure you lock your doors properly and don't open until you know who is outside... There is a man who is walking around, looking at us..."

Then, he told her that if my wife needs any other furniture to be transported to our house, he would happily help. 

Then, yesterday, the same guy had told my wife that he has a rocking chair. Does my wife want it? He would happily visit our house and give it. I said we don't need a rocking chair. But, she wants it. She was beaming like a child, mimicking what it would be like to sit on a rocking chair. 

By letting this man come to the house, she had given away three bits of information: her address, the fact that she lives alone, and she is single! 

4. She would not tell her boss and all the parents at her school that she is re-married.

This disturbs me. She would not tell her boss because the boss gets jealous over my wife. And the boss knows my wife's son and ex-husband. My wife's son and ex-husband do not know that she had re-married. She does not have any contact with her ex-husband. But, she occasionally has text exchanges with her 19-year old son.

The other reason for not wanting to tell others that she had re-married is this: my wife does not want her boss and co-workers to think that she left her first husband because of me. She told them that she left him because of financial and sexual abuse. Although this was partly true, the real reason was because I came in to her life. And she had an affair with me before leaving her first husband. She does not want her boss and co-workers and the parents to sully her image as a 'good, honest woman.' 

As a result, the men who come to this school think that she is "divorced" and "single" and "lives alone." 

This means the men would spend more time with her chatting when they come to drop off or collect the kids. There was one incident where my wife had mentioned to a parent that I was her "friend." My wife had gone to this man man's house to babysit his two kids. So, this man was giving her a ride back to her house. Straight away, in the car, the man started to ask personal questions about me. "Is her married?... Was he ever married? ... Does he have a girlfriend? ... What happened to the last girlfriend? Why did they split up?" 

I was disturbed as to why this guy had asked her all these questions. He could have spoke about his own kids and how they were doing. Instead, he was more interested in my life. What was more disturbing was that my wife had answered those questions. Any other woman might have thought that the man was crossing personal boundaries. 

5. She would mention if a woman had texted or phoned her. But, absolutely nothing about any men texting her or phoning her. Yet, I know she has a lot of men on her two phones. But, she has a habit of not naming the men on the Contacts list. Instead, she would leave them as numbers. But, the women would be named "Anna, "Sarah", and so on. This way, even if I come across her phone, it would be hard to know who was calling or texting her. And she has a habit of deleting messages. If one has nothing to hide, why delete anything? 

6. Dress sense. 
For too long, she would go to her school job as if she were going to a party. Every day, a different top and pants. The top would reveal a lot of cleavage. Or, it would be a figure-hugging turtle neck jumper would be so tight that she might as well be naked. 
Whenever I raised this issue as to why she had to dress inappropriately, she would rage and threaten me with "these are the clothes I have. If I dress like this, you think I am sleeping with the men who come to my school? If you think like this, you stay in England. Don't come here. I won't get married again. This is why I didn't want to get married again.... You are not giving me any freedom." 

However, since getting married, she has stopped wearing those revealing tops. But, I am not sure for how long this can continue. All I said that it was uncomfortable for me to see her go to work wearing those revealing clothes because it would send the wrong message to the men she meets. And combined with the fact that these men think she is "divorced" and "single", how could I be at peace 5,000 mile away? 

Whenever I had raised any of these issues, she would get angry and emotional. "Do you think I am cheating on you? I am not like that. I was married for over twenty years. And I was never happy. I could have cheated many times. But, I didn't. Because I am not like that. I never went with any other man." 

I really want to trust her. But, as I had spent just under 50 days with her so far, I am still getting to know her. So, it is really tough not to be suspicious. 


So, how can you help me? Well, am I being too suspicious? 

Today, she is going to ask me again about whether she could accept the rocking chair from the guy who visited the house last week? What shall I do? I feel that if she allows him to 'help' her with things like transporting a piece of furniture or giving a rocking chair, he is going to increase his level of emotional and physical intimacy with my wife. In the mean time, I am 5,000 miles away. I still haven't been inside the house that I found online, and helped her to buy. I sent her a five figure sum as down payment to help her buy the house. Yet, I am not able to be at this house. At the same time, a guy could use a rocking chair as an excuse to visit that house and increase her comfort levels with him. 

Last night, when my wife said, "he wants me to have the rocking chair,", I said " I knew this would happen. As soon as you allowed him to come to our house with the table, I knew it won't stop." 

My wife said, "He has got his own wife. And they are a good family." 

I was unsettled by this phrasing of the answer: "He has got his own wife." As if a man did not have "his own wife", he is more likely to cheat? 

If I were to be frank about these concerns, she would again threaten me with "you stay in England...Don't come here... I will be alone..."

Does this mean I let her take the rocking chair? I understand that the rocking chair is not the big issue. The concern is my wife does not see anything inappropriate in getting men to 'help' her. Or, she does not think I would be unsettled at the prospect of a man visiting our house when I am not there. Allowing a man to come to a woman's house when she is alone sends all sorts of wrong messages. 

The other issue is this: as the saying goes, "Nothing is free... everything has a price." A man is not going to transport pieces of furniture to a woman's house or gift a woman a second hand rocking chair without expecting something in return. Don't you agree? And my wife also has a nature whereby she has to show gratitude to anyone she perceives as 'helping' her. She once told me, "if someone helps me, I would do anything for that person." (This is her innocent, child-like nature talking. Yet, it is a dangerous mindset). 

About six weeks ago, my wife gave the spare keys to a plumber and handyman. He was doing some repairs while she was at work. The same man wanted to keep her keys until he finds an electrician to do the electrical repairs. Now, the repairs are still not done. Yet, he still has those keys. Every time I ask my wife about this, she would say, "he is trying to find an electrician." I really do not like the idea of someone else, especially a man who we hardly know have the spare keys to our house. This man however, knows that my wife is married. And I have had a video call with him. And he did not seem comfortable speaking to me. 

So, shall I just let her do what she wishes? And wait until I move in permanently with her? May be I am being unreasonably suspicious. She might be a good, decent woman who just wants to get the house in good order before I come there. (That is the reason for her getting these pieces of furniture like this! I told her to wait until I come there. Then, we could do it all together.)

With all the issues I raised here, I do understand that there might be an innocent explanation. And I might be just being too suspicious because I can't stand living alone while she is 5,000 miles away. 

I have written a lot here because I am not able to discuss these openly with anyone in my family or circle of friends.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Why don’t you live with her?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

This sounds like a train wreck. I suggest you divorce, recoup whatever money you can, and move on.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

What a mess.

Most of what you described could be perfectly innocent behavior and you're stressing out over nothing. You know her personality best to make that determination.

That is... until you mentioned infidelity. Now you know she's capable of cheating and lying to her spouse. Sound good Mr. current spouse? I said in your previous post you "screwed up" and I agree with that here.

But ok...bottom line. You can't verify anything that you're worried about. All you can do is drive yourself crazy with worry. Maybe she's trying out all the men, or maybe she's perfectly innocent.

I personally think she's a hot mess and you shouldn't have went down this road _especially_ with those concerns. But you did and I wouldn't advocate for divorce without something real to say she crossed a line.

So just like the last post, I say you made this bed, and now you get to lie in it until you know one way or the other.

Maybe see the doc for some sleeping meds or anxiety meds or something to help you through it.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Hard to say if you’re being overly suspicious or not. Could go either way and unfortunately you’ve put yourself in a position where you can’t really validate.

Getting married in this scenario was beyond stupid in the first place. You should’ve just waited until you could move there permanently before going down that path.
But now that you’re here, all you can do is keep your eyes open but try not to overthink and obsess, and push through until you can move


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Why don’t you live with her?


There are a bunch of those details in OP's first post.









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Hello! I found this forum after Googling for a place where I could get advice from those who don't know me. So, the insights I I might get might be useful. After reading a few other discussions here, I realise that this website can be valuable. I feel that I might be alone with an unusual...




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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Well, you should always trust your gut.

Since she thinks you are nowhere in sight, and doesn't need to do much to hide her actions if they are in fact nefarious, this situation could easily be verified with a PI.

If you are actually wondering what she is up to, just hire one and find out... might be a lot cheaper in the long run if something is actually going on.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> What a mess.
> 
> Most of what you described could be perfectly innocent behavior and you're stressing out over nothing. You know her personality best to make that determination.
> 
> ...


@BeyondRepair007 

To be honest, a part of me agrees with a lot of what you wrote here. (I also agree with most of the responses from others too). 

I want to be pragmatic as I don't have any concrete evidence. So, living alone, it is easy to become too analytical about my wife's actions and patterns of behaviour. 

I do know her personality, as you say. And I do think she is really innocent about a lot of things. Yet, as you said, what concerns me is the infidelity. At that time, both of us didn't see it that way. She said she has a separate bedroom. And this was true because she would video call from this room while the husband was in a different room. 

But, looking back, she did cheat and lie. She said she was afraid of telling the man the truth in case he got violent. So, she kept it a secret and one day just vanished from her own house. 

She also left her son. And even to this day, she does not have much contact with him. 

I just fear that one day she might cheat and lie in a big way as she had done before. She felt it was not cheating because we knew each other when we were kids. I wasn't a stranger. This was her way to rationalise our emotional affair. (It wasn't physical until many months after she left her first husband). 

When I look at my case objectively, I realise that I am married to a woman who cheated and lied to a man with whom she was married for over twenty years. And she also left her son. How could I really trust her?


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

re16 said:


> Well, you should always trust your gut.
> 
> Since she thinks you are nowhere in sight, and doesn't need to do much to hide her actions if they are in fact nefarious, this situation could easily be verified with a PI.
> 
> If you are actually wondering what she is up to, just hire one and find out... might be a lot cheaper in the long run if something is actually going on.


@re16 

I can't afford to hire a PI. 

However, I did something else to give myself a peace of mind. I have security cameras in my house. So, I asked her if she wanted access to those. She said yes. So, for two weeks, she watched my house from her own country. She got to learn about my life in a small way. 

Then, two weeks later, I asked if we could install the same type of security cameras in her house, which we call "our house." She was silent. She said "it would cost a lot of money.. it would cost a lot of electricity...." Then, I said "you got a lot of valuables in the house. Security cameras are worth the price. Do you want to lose your jewellery because you didn't want to spend $130 on a camera?

She said yes to those cameras. So, I ordered and had two installed. One for the front entrance and on for the back entrance. Since these cameras started giving me the live streams, I became a bit more at peace. The problem is these cameras can only show who is coming and going from the front and back door. And there is a 'blind spot' at the back that the camera can't see. Someone could enter the house by evading this camera's position. 

Yet, this camera does catch a bit of sounds. And here is where I get suspicious again. No one is coming and going from the house. Yet, sometimes, there are sounds. 

But, as many other had said to my original post, I could go crazy over-thinking about all these things. I have done my best with a messy situation. I know that. The cameras give me a lot of comfort. It is still too early to detect any changes in her behaviour. But, in the long run, if there was a habit of a man visiting her at night, the same man would not like that habit ending. So, he would try and get in again. And mistakes will be made. Then, I might have something concrete. 

Otherwise, there is nothing solid I have in terms of evidence to say she is lying and cheating. 

In a few weeks' time, I hope to come back here and share if anything had changed. 


(Thanks for those who contributed).


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> Hard to say if you’re being overly suspicious or not. Could go either way and unfortunately you’ve put yourself in a position where you can’t really validate.
> 
> Getting married in this scenario was beyond stupid in the first place. You should’ve just waited until you could move there permanently before going down that path.
> But now that you’re here, all you can do is keep your eyes open but try not to overthink and obsess, and push through until you can move


@DudeInProgress 

That's exactly what I am going to do: keep my eyes open... not overthink... and "push through" until I can move.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Sincere thanks to all those responses to the big picture issues I raised in the original post. But, anyone give me advice about the practical problems I have that I mentioned? For example, what do you think about the man who wants to give her a rocking chair? What about the man who asked her lots of personal questions about me? What about her wanting to keep our marriage a secret from her boss, co-workers and the parents at the school? And about her being a bit too keen to go to bed at 7 pm on Sundays or being too happy to send me to bed early on certain days? 

As I am going down the pragmatic route, I would appreciate your advice about how I could face these issues that say bad things about the big picture issues.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

KillingMoon said:


> *What about her wanting to keep our marriage a secret from her boss, co-workers and the parents at the school*? And about her being a bit too keen to go to bed at 7 pm on Sundays or being too happy to send me to bed early on certain days?


This would probably be enough for me to end the marriage immediately, especially in your situation.
But if you’re not willing to do that, you better set some ****ing expectations and boundaries right now.
One of those being that she is a married woman and she is your ****ing wife, and she better enthusiastically let everyone know it.
If she’s not proud of that, she needs to go.
If she wants to conceal that in any way, she needs to go.

Why the hell would you think this is remotely acceptable?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

KillingMoon said:


> Sincere thanks to all those responses to the big picture issues I raised in the original post. But, anyone give me advice about the practical problems I have that I mentioned? For example, what do you think about the man who wants to give her a rocking chair? What about the man who asked her lots of personal questions about me? What about her wanting to keep our marriage a secret from her boss, co-workers and the parents at the school? And about her being a bit too keen to go to bed at 7 pm on Sundays or being too happy to send me to bed early on certain days?
> 
> As I am going down the pragmatic route, I would appreciate your advice about how I could face these issues that say bad things about the big picture issues.


You now men as well as the rest of us. It's likely that everyone around her is trying to get closer to her, to have a shot bedding her. I mean they all think she's single right? So why not? So she will get a lot of favors thrown her way. The man asking questions is trying to get her to open up to him, trust him, get closer to him.

Her keeping you a secret is a huge red flag. Honestly it sounds like she wants the attention a single woman gets.

The Sunday bedtime, I don't have a clue. Unless it's really ugly... something like her new bf can only get away from his wife on Sunday evenings or something like that.

These things don't paint a very good picture. But it's tough to say if it's a real problem or just looks that way.

If I were to apply this behavior to my wife, I would be going silent and collecting evidence.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

You have really painted yourself in a corner here.
If you both really were meant to be, you both could have waited to get married until you were in the same country.
Her not wanting anyone to know you are married is really super sketchy. Why would she want to keep that info from her own Son? If you are married, it is a matter of public record. Almost makes me wonder if she is still married.
I don't know anyone that would allow a Handyman to have keys to their home. They would leave the key for them to get in, and they would leave it at night. I'd want the keys back and have the locks re keyed. Deal with access for the electrician when there really is one.
You seem to have no handle on who your wife talks too. Female names in a phone mean nothing. They could actually be men's numbers. The fact that she deletes texts could also be problematic. Could be nothing could be something.
The guy that delivered the table and gave her the rocking chair. He could be a good doer, he could also be trying to get in her pants. Hard to say. If that is all it takes for the guy to get lucky, your wife has no standards.
This is really a big cluster****. You have no template for any of this. Boundaries should have been established before you were married. She is free floating, any boundaries are vague and were not cooperatively established. She could be the perfect wife or she could be doing you dirty. You have really no way to know, other than what she tells you.
You really need to either get a handle on this or let her go. Any way to expediate your return to the US? Do you have any friends that you can trust in the area that can do some recon for you? Do you have a family phone plan, or access to her phone records? Cameras aren't really going to do anything for you because she knows they are there. You say that you cannot afford a PI, but could you afford one sparingly to check on certain key events?
You have red flags, but you have no infrastructure to verify anything. Best thing that you can do is wrap up things in the UK as fast as possible, get back to the states, see what you have, and do some of your own sleuthing and make some decisions.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

It definitely sounds like you got married way too soon. You married a cheater and now you wonder about things ? She's got you by the shirt hairs. Are you still sending her money for home expenses ?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

#4 ….. no need to read past reason #4

Deep down you already know you have been played for a fool. You now just need to get to the point where you admit this truth to yourself. You made an easy escape path for her from her previous marriage and nothing else. Secret husband…..seriously man ???

In situations like this men like you hang on to the fairy tale while ignoring the truths around them. You hang on to the lie because you “need it to be true”. Otherwise you would have to admit you have been a life long failure with women and now have allowed one to take your money to buy a house meanwhile letting no one actually know of your existence.

Look around you. Do you see anyone in a “marriage” like yours? Do you honestly believe this is what marriage looks like?

The sad truth is there are women out there that prey on men like you. The world can be a tough place and desperation can make people believe obvious lies.

Wake up …..


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

question @KillingMoon 

why dont you install indoor camera? they are cheap like $23

here is my two cents, my friend ex wife something exactly like you described your wife. she is 48 looking like 39 and even has 5 kids. they both looked like perfect family and she looked liked the perfect wife. innocent, raised well, naïve, and down to earth. 

well, she left her husband because she cheated and wanted to date other people, not one, but many - everyone who knows them were shocked. 

your wife appears the same way, like flirtation, attention, and talking to other men. the fact that she was hesitant about the camera and you hearing noises in the house tells you everything you need. 

Married men intuition when it comes to cheating and sensing betray are always right. this is human nature. follow your guts 

the biggest red flag and I consider a totally F*** up is that she didnt tell anyone about your marriage. 

by the way, do you help her financially?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Most of what you are concerned about could easily be innocent and nothing. Except for not telling everyone she is remarried. She is ready, willing and able to lie to every single person she interacts with, everyone. She is lying to her boss, to her friends, to her collogues, to the parents she interacts with, her exH and even her own son. She is lying to every person in her life, why would you be any different? 

As for the chair, I would tell her no, unless she tells the man she is married. Unfortunately she will probably tell you that she did, but given the ease with which she lies, could you believe her? I think you are screwed no matter what, but if you want any hope you better start living with her ASAP and also you better want to move to North America just for the sake of moving, because it is highly likely you will not be with her forever, maybe for long.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

KillingMoon said:


> Hello
> 
> I got married five months ago. I first met her when we were kids. Then, we lost touch. Then, in 2020, during the early stages of the lockdown, I was searching for this girl. And I found her. Then, from that day onwards, we had been speaking to each other through video calls. I live in the UK while she is 5,000 miles away in North America. I am 50 and she is 48. When I first got back in touch with her, she had been married for over 20 years. Her marriage had broken down over ten years earlier. But, for the sake of her child, she stayed with this husband. But, she slept in a separate bedroom. Then, after I came along, she left her house and then got a divorce. When she left the marriage, she also left her son with the father. The son was 18 at the time. And after getting divorced, I married her. Then, after just one week after the wedding, I had to return to the UK.
> Now, I am waiting to move to North America to live permanently with her.
> ...


*She would not tell her boss and all the parents at her school that she is re-married. *
Somethings are off here.
Try checking her out online, social media etc.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

You seem more bothered by someone dropping off a chair than the fact that your wife hasn’t told anyone she knows that she’s married, including her own child. That’s truly bizarre. My husband or any one of my brothers in law or male neighbors would happily offer to move or offer a piece of furniture to someone who wanted or needed it. Here’s the bottom line, your wife is a cheater. Regardless of what you think, she 100% cheated on her husband, and you have no way of knowing if she was sleeping in another bedroom. Even if she was, the fact that you were (and still are) a secret proves that she’s a cheater. She’s. A. Cheater. This is one of the most bizarre things I’ve seen on TAM. A wife who keeps her marriage a secret from literally everyone in her life. That’s. Not. Normal. I echo a previous poster who wonders if you’re even actually married. You married someone you didn’t know. This was a recipe for a disaster and you should really be questioning your judgement.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> You seem more bothered by someone dropping off a chair than the fact that your wife hasn’t told anyone she knows that she’s married, including her own child. That’s truly bizarre. My husband or any one of my brothers in law or male neighbors would happily offer to move or offer a piece of furniture to someone who wanted or needed it. Here’s the bottom line, your wife is a cheater. Regardless of what you think, she 100% cheated on her husband, and you have no way of knowing if she was sleeping in another bedroom. Even if she was, the fact that you were (and still are) a secret proves that she’s a cheater. She’s. A. Cheater. This is one of the most bizarre things I’ve seen on TAM. A wife who keeps her marriage a secret from literally everyone in her life. That’s. Not. Normal. I echo a previous poster who wonders if you’re even actually married. You married someone you didn’t know. This was a recipe for a disaster and you should really be questioning your judgement.


100 %


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

"Men do stupid things to mess up their lives and then try to find ways to justify it afterwards."
- Richard Cooper

You stalked some gal from your childhood, carried on an online affair with her until she left her husband and child, married her basically sight-unseen, are living on another continent a major ocean away and you are worried that she is not acting the way a normal married woman would????????

Yeah Dude, this is going to be a kooky situation because you are both kooky people for even getting into this in the first place. 

You cannot expect to have a normal, traditional marriage because nothing about this arrangement is normal and traditional. This is what you signed up for and agreed to take on. You can't sit over there pointing fingers that she isn't acting normal when nothing you have done here is normal from Day One. 

Now I am not going to jump on the "divorce her" bandwagon because I do not know what you will tolerate and what you will not,,,, obviously you are OK with alternative relationships because this is all very alternative. 

My recommendation is you have made your bed so at least try to sleep in it for a night or two. Don't make a bed of leaves under a bush in the woods and unroll a sleeping bag and then complain that it is not a normal comfy bed with a down comforter. 

At least hold up your end of the bargain and get packed up and move to her and see how it goes. 

Can anyone promise you that you will live happily ever after? Of course not. But you both signed up for this weird alternative relationship so she is obviously OK with alternative relationships too so why not give it a whirl? 

You may be two peas in a pod and be very happy together once you get together. 

Or once you are actually around each other in the real world, you may end up hating each other. 

But you can cross that bridge when you get there.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And does Rocking Chair Man want to get in her knickers? Well yeah, if she is under 200lbs and doesn't smell bad, all men want to get in her knickers. That's what dudes do. 

She was married and lived on another continent and look what you did and what you are going through to get in her knickers, so why are you shocked that men that are actually in her same area code are wanting to get in her knickers? 

Is any of this scenario normal and traditional? No, none of it. 


But it's what you two wanted to do and what you two designed together of your own free wills as two consenting adults so here you are. 

Enjoy


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

You write very well. Perfect sentence structuring and punctuation. Do you write for a living, by any chance?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She cheated with you, why wouldn’t she cheat on you.

Why would her boss be jealous of you unless they have a relationship going on. I guess you’re not the only OM in her life.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

KillingMoon said:


> For example, what do you think about the man who wants to give her a rocking chair? What about the man who asked her lots of personal questions about me? What about her wanting to keep our marriage a secret from her boss, co-workers and the parents at the school? And about her being a bit too keen to go to bed at 7 pm on Sundays or being too happy to send me to bed early on certain days?


If you want to do something short of serving divorce papers the easiest thing to do would be to get on a plane and fly out.

Show up before the rocking chair shows up.

Surprise her by visiting her at school!

Stay up with her on Sundays! Especially coming into fall and winter flights to the UK get a lot cheaper.

If you’re serious about this then I’d figure out how to exit quickly even if not legally.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You now men as well as the rest of us. It's likely that everyone around her is trying to get closer to her, to have a shot bedding her. I mean they all think she's single right? So why not? So she will get a lot of favors thrown her way. The man asking questions is trying to get her to open up to him, trust him, get closer to him.
> 
> Her keeping you a secret is a huge red flag. Honestly it sounds like she wants the attention a single woman gets.
> 
> ...



@BeyondRepair007 

Just like many other responses, I do know what you mean here. 

The Sunday evening perkiness: again, this happened this Sunday. Yet, I was with her on a video call until about 9 pm her time. (It was 4 am here). Yet, the security cameras showed no one going in or out. So, this is why I am confused. 

The other thing to know is that we are on video calls at every convenient moment. For example, we would go to bed together. And wake up around the same time. We talk for about 30 minutes at the start of our days. And then, she would video call me on her way to work. And when she finishes work, she would video call me. And she would walk home on that video call. And we would spend more time on a video call through her evening and then to bed. So, it would be difficult for her to be with other men with this type of lifestyle. The only time we don't video call is when I am at work and she is at home. Even then, she would video call me during my breaks. So, there is a part of me that believes that this is a good woman who is faithful. She is waiting for me to finish what I have to do in the UK and come to live with her. She even tells me every day, "Come here soon. I am lonely here..." 

So, I am really confused. I want to believe that she is innocent and I am just being too suspicious. 

As you advised, I have become silent and just observing the patterns of behaviour a lot more discreetly now. 

And as many others have said, it is only by living together with her for a long period of time I can find out what she is really like.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Tdbo said:


> You have really painted yourself in a corner here.
> If you both really were meant to be, you both could have waited to get married until you were in the same country.
> Her not wanting anyone to know you are married is really super sketchy. Why would she want to keep that info from her own Son? If you are married, it is a matter of public record. Almost makes me wonder if she is still married.
> I don't know anyone that would allow a Handyman to have keys to their home. They would leave the key for them to get in, and they would leave it at night. I'd want the keys back and have the locks re keyed. Deal with access for the electrician when there really is one.
> ...


@Tdbo 

Thanks for your take on my problem. 

To answer a few of your questions quickly:

1. I am trying to expedite my return to North America. It could happen before December. But, even that seems too distant. 

2. Friends in her city who can recon? No. I am new to her city. But, the only guy who might do this is her ex-husband's brother in law. But, he had a lot of negative things about her whenever I spoke to him on the phone. I thought he might be being loyal to his brother in law by making my wife seem like the villain.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> It definitely sounds like you got married way too soon. You married a cheater and now you wonder about things ? She's got you by the shirt hairs. Are you still sending her money for home expenses ?


I did send money to buy a house. But, before that, it was she who paid for my trips to North America. 

I don't send her money. But, occasionally I do send her gifts.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> question @KillingMoon
> 
> why dont you install indoor camera? they are cheap like $23
> 
> ...



As you said, my intuition tells me that she is too good to be true for someone who lives 5,000 miles away on another continent. And she likes male attention. When I first spend time with her last year, she was tactile with other men. For example, she would playfully hit men. I found it unsettling as some of these men were those she said she hates! When I mentioned it to her after returning to the UK, she got upset. She said she didn't realise that she was touching men on their arms. And she said she would try and stop herself from doing this. But, how do I know if she still playfully hits men. 

and no, I do not help her financially. I did send her money to help her buy the house. But, she actually earns more than me! 

And yes, the big red flag is that she won't tell most people in her city that she is married. The reason she gives makes me want to empathise. She can't tell her boss at her school. Her boss is female who is jealous of the attention my wife gets, from all parents, men and women. This is a truth. And by telling this female boss that she re-married, her boss would think that my wife had little integrity. She would be seen as a woman who left a good man and son for another man in another country. Of course, this is the truth. But, my wife does not want a 'bad reputation' because her female would relish spreading bad stuff about her. 

The other reason is that my wife's son would not accept her re-marrying anyone. He lives with his father, despite being 20-years old. My wife does not want to upset the son. And the ex-husband's family is very influential in her city's community. So, she does not want them finding out she is re-married. 

So, these reasons are plausible. 

But, I have asked her, "What are you going to do when I come to live with you soon?" She said then she would tell everyone. So, I just have to wait and see.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> If you want to do something short of serving divorce papers the easiest thing to do would be to get on a plane and fly out.
> 
> Show up before the rocking chair shows up.
> 
> ...



The rocking chair never showed up. In fact, she has not mentioned it. Originally, she said the guy would "show" her a photo of it and she can decide. This made me realise he hasn't got her phone number. If he did, he would have texted that photo. 

So, I waited. May be he got her phone number. and they texted. She might not want to tell me about the photo because I would ask "So, you gave him your number?" 

I do expect to go there within the next 8 weeks.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> She cheated with you, why wouldn’t she cheat on you.
> 
> Why would her boss be jealous of you unless they have a relationship going on. I guess you’re not the only OM in her life.



Her boss is a female in her mid-60s. I explained the jealousy issue in a previous answer. The boss is jealous that my wife gets a lot of attention from all parents. My guess is that my wife gets a lot of attention from the male fathers who visit this school.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

KillingMoon said:


> @BeyondRepair007
> 
> Just like many other responses, I do know what you mean here.
> 
> ...


Re: the Sunday night thing, who knows. Try face timing her 2 hours after she goes to bed. Mix up your call schedule, be sporadic. See what happens then.

There’s not a good solution for you. You’re gonna have to hang on and wait, hire a PI, or end it based on suspicious. I don’t see a way for you confirm or refute bad behavior from afar.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

KillingMoon said:


> Her boss is a female in her mid-60s. I explained the jealousy issue in a previous answer. The boss is jealous that my wife gets a lot of attention from all parents. My guess is that my wife gets a lot of attention from the male fathers who visit this school.


My commit still stands regardless of her boss.

She cheated with you, she can very easily cheat on you.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

KillingMoon said:


> Her boss is a female in her mid-60s. I explained the jealousy issue in a previous answer. The boss is jealous that my wife gets a lot of attention from all parents. My guess is that my wife gets a lot of attention from the male fathers who visit this school.


Here's the thing. IMO one of the biggest parts of getting married is that you are announcing to friends, family and the world that you have committed yourself to your partner. She isn't doing that and it is a major problem. Even if her concerns about her boss are valid they shouldn't matter. Once you are married the single most important thing in your life is that marriage and your partner. If she works somewhere that is so hostile towards her getting remarried then she should have no interest in working in a toxic environment like that. 

I'm skeptical of this whole boss thing. I assume this boss is the school principal. You've been saying North America, but not which country. I'm not sure about Mexico and Canada, but I can tell you with a high level of certainty if it is the US and she is a public school teacher then she is full of crap. She may be right about her principal's perception of her, but there is next to nothing the principal can do. Again, if in the US, the school is likely unionized. The principal would have little power to do anything to her. As I said before though, if her work environment is this toxic why would she stay there? 

And if she is such an attention ***** that she doesn't want these male parents to think she is single for fear they won't like her as much that is another really bad sign. My wife works in a school and it is VERY well known we are married. I can't tell you how many times we've run into a parent that I've never met and they say how my wife is always talking about me, very proud of me, etc. So, the parents either like her or they don't. Marital status has no bearing on that.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

She refuses to tell anyone she is married to you

She refuses to tell anyone she is married to you

She refuses to tell anyone she is married to you

She refuses to tell anyone she is married to you

She refuses to tell anyone she is married to you

She refuses to tell anyone she is married to you

She refuses to tell anyone she is married to you


She refuses to tell anyone she is married to you

Wake up !!!!!

wake up!!!

All this junk about the chair and her boss means NOTHING!!!!!!

The fact that she refuses to tell anyone she is married is everything!!!

You are choosing to ignore the LARGEST RED FLAG WAVING IN YOUR FACE !!!

Wake the FUK UP !!


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

Her excuses about her son and boss are so absurd. Beyond absurd. Especially the boss. And your wife sounds ridiculously full of herself, telling you that her boss is so jealous of her popularity. Ridiculous. And as someone else said, if she’s a public school teacher in the US, she has 99.9 job security short of sleeping with a student. And any principal who trash talks and gossips about one of their teachers will not be a principal for long. This story is just crazy. And really, who cares who her former in laws are? This isn’t a Middle Eastern or Asian country where they can shame her into being shunned in the community. They clearly knows she’s divorced from their son. She is making an idiot of you. Do you have any adult friends? Parents? Siblings? Do they know this story? I can’t believe there’s one other adult in your life that would hear this and not slap you. I implore you, start thinking like a logical adult man.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Re: the Sunday night thing, who knows. Try face timing her 2 hours after she goes to bed. Mix up your call schedule, be sporadic. See what happens then.
> 
> There’s not a good solution for you. You’re gonna have to hang on and wait, hire a PI, or end it based on suspicious. I don’t see a way for you confirm or refute bad behavior from afar.



@BeyondRepair007 
Thanks for these suggestions. 

The Sunday issue: Your suggestion to be "sporadic" with our schedule is a good strategy. I will use it if things get more suspicious. But, since I put up that original post, I ordered a third security camera and got her to install it. So, now it is hard for anyone to come in to that house without my knowing. All three cameras have 24/7 recording. So far, I haven't seen any man go in to that house. 

And her behaviour on Sundays seems more stable. Before, she would be unusually perky at 7 PM and wanting to got to bed early. And unusually perky at 6 am her time on a Monday morning. What kind of a person is that perky on a Monday morning?

However, may be I am just too suspicious at anything that I see as a irregular as I am still getting to know her. May be she wants me to go to bed at 2 am when it is 7 pm in her time zone. On Sundays, I have to get up early for my work. Even then, on some other days, I get up early. Yet, she won't mind staying up until 9 pm her time, 4 am my time. So, I am still undecided about her patterns of behaviour. 

And the interesting thing about these security cameras is that they are indoor cameras that are positioned to look through the windows to deter or catch intruders. But, these cameras also catch the audio within the house. And my wife knows that. So, I haven't heard her speaking to a single man. This is unusual because how could she only speak to females. My guess is that she might text or phone men from her bedroom. None of the security cameras can catch the sounds coming from there. 

And if she is using WhatsApp to audio call or text men, I won't know about it. The main thing is that I am certain no man is coming to that house without my knowing!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

And yet you still refuse to face the fact that she won’t tell anyone she is married to you.

Are you going to actually wake up or just keep talking about BS ?

Are you going to address the obvious elephant in the room ??


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Here's the thing. IMO one of the biggest parts of getting married is that you are announcing to friends, family and the world that you have committed yourself to your partner. She isn't doing that and it is a major problem. Even if her concerns about her boss are valid they shouldn't matter. Once you are married the single most important thing in your life is that marriage and your partner. If she works somewhere that is so hostile towards her getting remarried then she should have no interest in working in a toxic environment like that.
> 
> I'm skeptical of this whole boss thing. I assume this boss is the school principal. You've been saying North America, but not which country. I'm not sure about Mexico and Canada, but I can tell you with a high level of certainty if it is the US and she is a public school teacher then she is full of crap. She may be right about her principal's perception of her, but there is next to nothing the principal can do. Again, if in the US, the school is likely unionized. The principal would have little power to do anything to her. As I said before though, if her work environment is this toxic why would she stay there?
> 
> And if she is such an attention *** that she doesn't want these male parents to think she is single for fear they won't like her as much that is another really bad sign. My wife works in a school and it is VERY well known we are married. I can't tell you how many times we've run into a parent that I've never met and they say how my wife is always talking about me, very proud of me, etc. So, the parents either like her or they don't. Marital status has no bearing on that.


@BigDaddyNY
Thank you for this response.

I want to respond in detail to some important issues you raised here.

Firstly, you made so many important points so elegantly that I want to address those one at a time. The process of responding to you seems therapeutic. 


1.
_ *"..one of the biggest parts of getting married is that you are announcing to friends, family and the world that you have committed yourself to your partner. She isn't doing that and it is a major problem. Even if her concerns about her boss are valid they shouldn't matter. Once you are married the single most important thing in your life is that marriage and your partner. If she works somewhere that is so hostile towards her getting remarried then she should have no interest in working in a toxic environment like that."*_

I agree with everything you say here. Since reading your views last week, I tried on two occasions to ask my wife, over a long video call, as to who knows we are married and why she won't tell everyone at her workplace. I also asked her when she would tell her boss (who is female). Every one in my workplace that I am married. Sometimes, during my lunch breaks, I have even introduced my colleagues to my wife.

So, why isn't my wife telling everyone at her workplace?

Well, it turns out that exactly four of her colleagues know about me and the marriage. And I believe this I have spoken to three of the four female co-workers during our video calls while my wife is on her lunch break. And the fourth one phones my wife at home. And I have heard my wife talk positively about me as "my husband" to this female co-worker.

But, why keep it a secret from her boss, the lady who manages the whole workplace? Well, to answer that question, I have to disclose some information that I did not want to mention in my original post. And as a result, you and a few others have raised big red flags! And I understand that. So, I am now going to explain that.

My wife is terrified of her boss. 

2.
_*"I'm skeptical of this whole boss thing. I assume this boss is the school principal. You've been saying North America, but not which country. I'm not sure about Mexico and Canada, but I can tell you with a high level of certainty if it is the US and she is a public school teacher then she is full of crap. She may be right about her principal's perception of her, but there is next to nothing the principal can do. Again, if in the US, the school is likely unionized. The principal would have little power to do anything to her."
*_
I chose not to mention too many details about where my wife works. I wanted to ensure my anonymity. Well, I could still maintain that while disclosing some important pieces of information that might help you and the others empathise with my wife's situation. I wrote "North America." Well, it is not USA. My wife is in Canada. I used the word 'school' to keep her workplace seem as broad as possible. But, it is actually a daycare centre in Canada.

As someone who has lived his life mostly in the UK, I find the way daycare centres are run in certain parts of Canada to be shocking and unsettling. And what I am about to say might trouble those who care about political correctness and liberalism. But I have to disclose the truth like a journalist to help you understand my situation. This daycare centre is owned by an immigrant whose command of the English language is extremely poor. And she brings her own values from her developing nation. And she employs a boss who is also from a Third World country. She too speaks Broken English with a heavy accent with values that are more suited to the nineteenth century than 2022! This female boss in in charge of running this daycare centre. She would touch and hug the male parents who visit this daycare. She would encourage her female staff to do the same. Once, a male parent made a complaint about my wife. A four year old boy had alleged that my wife told him that "boys don't cry." My wife denied this. It was the female boss who had said this to the little boy. But, the child got the grown ups confused. So, the child's father was upset with my wife. He threatened to kill her and do all sorts of things to her. I wanted my wife to report this incident to the police. She was shaking and having palpitations. She was terrified by this threat as well as well as the allegation.

But, her female boss from the Third World told my wife not to involve the police. Instead, this boss told my wife to just go and speak to the male parent and "just give him a hug, he'll be ok." My wife refused to do this.

Two days later, the boy told the father it was not my wife who had said those things. My point is that this boss uses ways that our out of place in a First World country such as USA, UK, or Canada. This boss does behave in a way that we might see as inappropriate. But, none of her staff have the courage to report her to anyone. Why? They are terrified of losing their jobs. The real villain here is the owner of the daycare centre who does not employ staff with written contracts. My wife has been working there for over 15 years. Yet, if the owner wants to fire her or stop her working, she can do that. In fact, she has done that many times to others during the last two years. And there is no sick pay, as we have in the UK. If my wife were to fall sick, she would not be paid anything for the lost days. 

But this owner has my wife as her trusted staff member at this daycare. The owner phones my wife every evening to hear the gossip about what went on at this daycare. My wife is the owner's security camera! The owner regularly gives her expensive items of clothing she no longer uses to my wife. She gives other gifts. As a result, my wife cannot report the boss to any officials. The owner herself does not like this boss. But, even the owner is terrified of this boss taking revenge on her and the daycare. This boss is capable of influencing the parents is such a way they could stop sending their kids there. Although the boss bullies her staff, the parents get to see a different side to her. And the few parents who have witnessed incidents of verbal abuse and foul language from the boss to her staff chose not to report her to the authorities who oversee the running of daycare centres in this Canadian province. And of course, why would the male parents report this boss to any authorities? The men can come to this daycare and get 'fondly treated' by the female staff. A lot of touching and hugging goes on here that I find really disturbing. I am not sure what you feel about this issue, especially if you are a parent who has used or is using daycare centres? Or, what if you are a mother and your husband goes to a daycare such as this one with extra enthusiasm to drop and pick up your kids?! Am I being unreasonable in hating a wife who might be hugging and touching the men who come to this daycare centre?

Most daycare centres in England have cameras that give live video streams to the parents on their apps. And daycare staff are not allowed to give their personal cell phone numbers to the parents, especially the male fathers. But in this daycare centre in Canada, the boss encourages the staff to exchange phone numbers with parents. This means men would text my wife about their kids to check if they are ok. At the same time, who knows what else they text her. But, I have spotted her using emojis in her responses to some of these men. Surely, this is where a man and a woman is crossing the boundary from the professional to the personal. But, I didn't want to make a big issue out of emojis. The real issue is how backward this daycare centre is.

3.
_* "..if her work environment is this toxic why would she stay there?"*_

Good question. I have asked her this two years ago at the start of our relationship. My wife has been working here for over 15 years. This has become her comfort zone. She can walk to this workplace within ten minutes. And the female owner likes her. As long as my wife does not upset the owner, she has a job for life here! My wife is also terrified of interviews and applying for other jobs. Now, after buying the house, she is the one who is paying all the mortgage and all the other bills. She needs this job to pay all those bills. (I did send $20,000 as a down payment to buy this property. But, I haven't given anything else financially.)

So, going to another daycare centre is not something she feels comfortable with. May be, in time, I could give her the confidence to move out of this toxic place. But, that's another issue for the long term.

And this daycare centre is not unionised. I know with certainty that the owner would not allow anyone to be a union member. She does not even like anyone reporting any health and safety violations to anyone!


4.
_* "...And if she is such an attention * that she doesn't want these male parents to think she is single for fear they won't like her as much that is another really bad sign."*_

I agree. It is a bad sign. So, here is why I had to ask my wife a few days ago "When do you think you can tell everyone at daycare that you re-married?" To this question, she said "Four people already know. The rest don't need to know."

So, what do think of that reply? I was angry. But, I kept calm as I can't allow myself to argue on a video call. I had to stay patient and learn more about her reasons. "Why can't you tell ?" (her female boss). My wife said, " has a dirty mind. She would tell everyone, especially the parents that I was married to a good man and had a son. And she cheated on her husband and left him for another man. Now, she does not even have much contact with her son. She would tell everyone that I am a liar and a cheater "

I said, "but this is the truth. She wouldn't be lying, would she?"

Then, she said, "When she leaves, I will tell everyone."

This was not a good answer. This boss might never leave. Just like my wife, this boss has been doing the same job for too many years. This is her comfort zone. So, I told my wife, "*__* is never going to leave... She will stay there until she dies!", I said.


I do think that the presence of the unprofessional boss is not the only reason why my wife wants to keep our marriage a secret. She does love attention from men. During the early stages of my getting to know her through video calls, she has mentioned that "all the men who come here love me. The single fathers love me. The married guys love me." When I showed my concern, she said "They love me because I am good with their children. The women love me too, because I am good with their children."

Although this might be true, I asked her, "have any of these men asked you out for dinner?" She said "No. Even if they did, how can I trust a man? They all want one thing. I was not happy in my marriage for over 20 years. But, I chose to stay because I couldn't trust any other men until you came in to my life."

At the same time, I noticed she had Valentine, heart shaped chocolates and roses in her room. When I asked who gave it to her, she said "My children. " I said "A four year old went to a shop to get these for you?"

She would say the child's parents gave her those gifts. She said parents do that for Valentine's Day in Canada. Is that true? I don't know. What was disturbing was that she still kept those gifts well in to July and August when those things would have been given to her in February! 

I told her at the time that I work with female co-workers. And when they are given roses or Valentine chocolates from customers or clients, the women who got husbands or boyfriends politely decline those gifts. And even if they had to accept those gifts, they will not take it home! They might share the chocolates with other co-workers and throw away the roses. I said why she didn't do that? To this, she got emotional and said "Why are you making a big deal out of this? I just like roses and heart-shaped stuff."

So, I left it at that.


6. The son who still does not know that his mother had re-married.

My wife has not told most of her co-workers and the parents who visit this daycare that she had remarried. So, to all the men who come there, she will be perceived as being single. However, what's worse is that she hasn't told her 20-year old son.

During the last five days, she has been getting more anxious about this. The son did not want to have much contact with her. She does not feel good about not telling the truth to him. She fears that I might not like the son. And what if the son wants more contact with her? This would disrupt our relationship as I haven't spent much time with my wife since getting married. It was easy for my wife to leave the son with his father because the son was doing things she didn't approve. Even before he was 18 years old, he would be out with his friends, drinking alcohol, smoking and sleeping around with different girls. He failed to do well at school. Now, two years later, he has not changed. If he finds out that his mother has a beautiful house, he would want to come and stay there. Since leaving her first husband and son, she lived in a rented room within a shared house. And the son has repeatedly asked if "I could come and stay with you mum?" He was over 18. And my wife told him she is not allowed to bring guests to this rented room. This was true. But now, if the son finds out she has her own house, he would want to move in there and never leave. And this is a 20-year old who still has his father doing the meals and laundry for him.

So, my wife does not want to tell her son about re-marrying because of me. She knows I won't approve of him coming to stay with us! I will get no privacy if the 20-year old son is in the other bedroom! And is she cooks and cleans for him, he would never leave. He will use our house as if it were a hotel! And that won't be ok with me. And she knows that.

Now, I hope you could at least empathise with why my wife does not want to tell too many people about her re-marrying.

Yet, this leaves me with the suspicious that made me write that original post two weeks ago. What shall I do? My plan is to go to Canada and live with her. Only this could provide the answers to my suspicions and doubts. She might be a good woman whose only sin was to hide me from her first husband when I appeared in her life. I know that fact alone would make her a "liar and a cheater" to some people. But, at the time, she was scared of telling her first husband that she wants to leave the marriage because of me. So, she kept quiet and one day, just left her house.

So, I really hope you understand my position a bit better. I know I made a mistake in marrying her. But, I have to give her a chance to see how we can be once we start living together. She constantly tells me how badly she wants me to come and stay with her. She is loving when we speak on video calls. And I haven't found any evidence that is solid enough to say she is cheating. And if she is cheating, it might be in the form of texting or speaking to men and not telling me about it.

Anyway, it has been another long post. It has been therapeutic to think through these issues. I would appreciate your insights. Even the ones that seem brutal made me think things differently. Yet, I do know my wife better than everyone on this forum, obviously. And of course, I still have a mountain to climb with regards to getting to know her as I have never lived with her. I would like to hear from women who have children. Would you leave your 18-year-old son and start a life with a new man? Would you choose not to have much contact with this son? My wife has seen her son about a half a dozen times during the past two years. Even then, those meetings were not planned. They just bumped in to each other in the same town. Sometimes, my great fear is this: if a woman can leave her son of 18-years and not bother to even speak to him, what is to stop her doing that to me? She has lived with me for at least 18 weeks!

So, what shall I do about her son? All of a sudden, he wants to have contact with her? Last week, he asked her "do you still go to church?" He wants to go to church because his mother is supposed to be a devout Christian. The son does all sorts of things that would not be regarded as living a good Christian life. Yet, he wants to come across as a good Christian because he knows this is what the mother wants! Do I stay silent on this issue and see what happens? If I give the impression that I am completely against the son, she could become less loving towards me. In the past, she has threatened that if she had to choose between me and the son, she would choose the son. Later she apologised by saying "When I am angry, I am not here..." The truth is that I hate this 20-year old! He reminds me of her ex-husband in every way. The less contact my wife has with him, the better. In fact, one of the reasons why our relationship had survived and developed was because my wife had little contact with the son, except a few texts on Mother's Day, birthday, and Christmas! Now, suddenly, the son wants increased contact. And my wife is getting anxious and worried.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> Her excuses about her son and boss are so absurd. Beyond absurd. Especially the boss. And your wife sounds ridiculously full of herself, telling you that her boss is so jealous of her popularity. Ridiculous. And as someone else said, if she’s a public school teacher in the US, she has 99.9 job security short of sleeping with a student. And any principal who trash talks and gossips about one of their teachers will not be a principal for long. This story is just crazy. And really, who cares who her former in laws are? This isn’t a Middle Eastern or Asian country where they can shame her into being shunned in the community. They clearly knows she’s divorced from their son. She is making an idiot of you. Do you have any adult friends? Parents? Siblings? Do they know this story? I can’t believe there’s one other adult in your life that would hear this and not slap you. I implore you, start thinking like a logical adult man.


@Teacherwifemom 
Thanks for this response. 

I understand your candid views. In my original post, I chose not to disclose too many details about where my wife worked. So, I just answered that in an earlier post a few minutes ago. I hope that clarifies a few things. 

And you mentioned: 

_*"..This story is just crazy. And really, who cares who her former in laws are? This isn’t a Middle Eastern or Asian country where they can shame her into being shunned in the community..."*_

One of the other demographic variables I chose not to mention in my original post is this: my wife is from an Asian country. And even the immigrants who come from this Asian country to Canada carry on living as if they were still in that Third World country with the same attitudes to marriage and divorce. A woman who divorces her husband is seen as the 'fallen woman,' a person of great shame. And in the ethnic community in Canada, within a certain province, my wife's ex-husband's family have a lot of power and influence. And they are highly political. 

I didn't want to bring ethnicity and race in to this discussion as those two things can stop us having a fruitful discussion. However, your last response made me realise that I had to disclose these details. 

And you rightly asked: 

_*"..She is making an idiot of you. Do you have any adult friends? Parents? Siblings? Do they know this story? I can’t believe there’s one other adult in your life that would hear this and not slap you. I implore you, start thinking like a logical adult man."*_

My siblings and many of my relatives have known her since we were both kids! And most people close to me know about her not telling most of her co-workers about our marriage. And they too do not like this situation. But, they understand my wife's predicament at a toxic workplace with a boss who is a bully. 

If you read my previous response on this question of my wife not telling too many people, you might empathise with her. This is what I am trying to do. Yet, you might still be right and my wife might be making an "idiot" out of me. The only way to find out is to go to Canada and live with her for at least a year. I am prepared to take that risk. In the mean time, it would be good to hear from those who don't know me well. The people who are close to me might not want to hurt me. So, unlike you, they won't be as brutal as you had been with your responses. But, I really do get what you are saying...


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> And yet you still refuse to face the fact that she won’t tell anyone she is married to you.
> 
> Are you going to actually wake up or just keep talking about BS ?
> 
> Are you going to address the obvious elephant in the room ??



@Mr.Married 
Since you wrote that response, I posted a long reply and another response. Hopefully, those two posts might help you understand that what I am saying is not really "BS". I am trying to be calm and rational and deal with my mess in a pragmatic way. After reading those responses, you might have a different take on my problems.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

So in reality, you want to keep a Mother from her son. Seems awfully selfish. As far as him living with you and your wife , you just tell him No. Most moms would give thier very life for there children. An interesting dynamic you both have


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Nevermind, I was mistaken


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Thanks for the additional details. I try to give some more feedback.



KillingMoon said:


> @BigDaddyNY
> My wife is terrified of her boss.
> ...
> 
> ...


On this, I think she needs to find the courage to leave. If she has 15 years of experience in day care she should have no problem finding another one to work at. It even sounds like the owner might give her a reference. She is married and should be telling everyone. If she is so fearful of what this boss will say, she MUST get out of that situation. There is no other solution. 




KillingMoon said:


> _* "...And if she is such an attention * that she doesn't want these male parents to think she is single for fear they won't like her as much that is another really bad sign."*_
> 
> I agree. It is a bad sign. So, here is why I had to ask my wife a few days ago "When do you think you can tell everyone at daycare that you re-married?" To this question, she said "Four people already know. The rest don't need to know."
> 
> ...


This isn't an acceptable solution. What would she do if next month you were able to move to be with her permanently? Is she still going to hide her marital status? It is utter nonsense. She has to either grow a spine and tell everyone, or she has to get out of that environment. Honestly if she were my wife it would be both. Tell everyone she is married at the same time she tells them I quit. 



KillingMoon said:


> I do think that the presence of the unprofessional boss is not the only reason why my wife wants to keep our marriage a secret. She does love attention from men. During the early stages of my getting to know her through video calls, she has mentioned that "all the men who come here love me. The single fathers love me. The married guys love me." When I showed my concern, she said "They love me because I am good with their children. The women love me too, because I am good with their children."


I don't think this is the biggest issue. She definitely likes the praise, but it seems it comes from everyone, regardless of marital status and gender, and from experience with my wife she is right about them liking her because she is good with the kids. Has she ever directly and specifically said that she doesn't want the single guys to know she is married? If she has, THAT would be a problem. She should be only interested in praise for doing a good job. Taking actions to get praise based marital status is serious character flaw. 



KillingMoon said:


> At the same time, I noticed she had Valentine, heart shaped chocolates and roses in her room. When I asked who gave it to her, she said "My children. " I said "A four year old went to a shop to get these for you?"
> 
> She would say the child's parents gave her those gifts. She said parents do that for Valentine's Day in Canada. Is that true? I don't know. What was disturbing was that she still kept those gifts well in to July and August when those things would have been given to her in February!
> 
> I told her at the time that I work with female co-workers. And when they are given roses or Valentine chocolates from customers or clients, the women who got husbands or boyfriends politely decline those gifts. And even if they had to accept those gifts, they will not take it home! They might share the chocolates with other co-workers and throw away the roses. I said why she didn't do that? To this, she got emotional and said "Why are you making a big deal out of this? I just like roses and heart-shaped stuff."


My wife is often given gifts at some holidays, including Valentine's Day, and at the end of the school year. My wife makes out like a bandit sometimes. She's gotten hundreds of dollars in gift cards and many other gifts. They are "from the kids", but obviously they are really from the parents. She usually brings everything home and shares them with me. Roses would be weird though, but maybe not in Canada, that I don't know. How does she still have roses from February in July?




KillingMoon said:


> 6. The son who still does not know that his mother had re-married.
> 
> My wife has not told most of her co-workers and the parents who visit this daycare that she had remarried. So, to all the men who come there, she will be perceived as being single. However, what's worse is that she hasn't told her 20-year old son.
> 
> ...


More cowardice on the part of your wife. She is allowed to say no to her 20 year old son. It sounds like he could use some tough love. 



KillingMoon said:


> Now, I hope you could at least empathise with why my wife does not want to tell too many people about her re-marrying.
> 
> Yet, this leaves me with the suspicious that made me write that original post two weeks ago. What shall I do? My plan is to go to Canada and live with her. Only this could provide the answers to my suspicions and doubts. She might be a good woman whose only sin was to hide me from her first husband when I appeared in her life. I know that fact alone would make her a "liar and a cheater" to some people. But, at the time, she was scared of telling her first husband that she wants to leave the marriage because of me. So, she kept quiet and one day, just left her house.
> 
> So, I really hope you understand my position a bit better. I know I made a mistake in marrying her. But, I have to give her a chance to see how we can be once we start living together. She constantly tells me how badly she wants me to come and stay with her. She is loving when we speak on video calls. And I haven't found any evidence that is solid enough to say she is cheating. And if she is cheating, it might be in the form of texting or speaking to men and not telling me about it.


I can empathize, but I do not agree with what she is doing. You can't be lukewarm married. You are either all in or you are not. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but your situation of being so far away makes it possible. What is really worrisome is she is more than willing and capable of lying to every single person in her life. She lies to her boss, the owner, colleagues, the parents and even her own son. How do you know she isn't lying to you? She has made a serious strategic mistake by not revealing you to everyone. That lying will become extremely obvious to everyone once you get to Canada. What will she do then? Will she keep trying to hide you? Will she come clean? Will she compound with another lie and say you just got married? She is painting herself into a corner. 




KillingMoon said:


> Anyway, it has been another long post. It has been therapeutic to think through these issues. I would appreciate your insights. Even the ones that seem brutal made me think things differently. Yet, I do know my wife better than everyone on this forum, obviously. And of course, I still have a mountain to climb with regards to getting to know her as I have never lived with her. I would like to hear from women who have children. Would you leave your 18-year-old son and start a life with a new man? Would you choose not to have much contact with this son? My wife has seen her son about a half a dozen times during the past two years. Even then, those meetings were not planned. They just bumped in to each other in the same town. Sometimes, my great fear is this: if a woman can leave her son of 18-years and not bother to even speak to him, what is to stop her doing that to me? She has lived with me for at least 18 weeks!
> 
> So, what shall I do about her son? All of a sudden, he wants to have contact with her? Last week, he asked her "do you still go to church?" He wants to go to church because his mother is supposed to be a devout Christian. The son does all sorts of things that would not be regarded as living a good Christian life. Yet, he wants to come across as a good Christian because he knows this is what the mother wants! Do I stay silent on this issue and see what happens? If I give the impression that I am completely against the son, she could become less loving towards me. In the past, she has threatened that if she had to choose between me and the son, she would choose the son. Later she apologised by saying "When I am angry, I am not here..." The truth is that I hate this 20-year old! He reminds me of her ex-husband in every way. The less contact my wife has with him, the better. In fact, one of the reasons why our relationship had survived and developed was because my wife had little contact with the son, except a few texts on Mother's Day, birthday, and Christmas! Now, suddenly, the son wants increased contact. And my wife is getting anxious and worried.


You should not stand between a mother and her son. She should have a relationship with him. However, that doesn't mean she has to take her adult son into her home and coddle him.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

I hope you don’t think my response was brutal as in mean. I’m just able to respond without emotion because I don’t know you and I always try to reply using logic. I did read your lengthy explanations. Thank you for all of that clarification. I’m not sure it changes much though. I will address the part about the son. I have an 18 year old son. My friends all have kids in or around this age range. Some really good and easy, some are doing these kind of kid things. It is unfathomable to me that I would EVER walk out of my child’s life. And really, drinking and having sex isn’t exactly unusual behavior for a young man in this age range. I can’t stand it when we’re away for a weekend and now he doesn’t come because he’s old enough to stay home and he has a job. He’s a really good kid but even if he wasn’t, I would feel the same. Now that he’s in college, working, an athlete, a gym rat and has a girlfriend, I don’t always see him a lot each day, but I do see him, and we text and talk daily while he’s out and about. It is completely unnatural for a good mother to see her child only handful of times over 2 years. And for him to not even know where she lives? Omg. This is a huge red flag to me. It’s just really bizarre. All of these excuses she has, they are so elaborate that it seems impossible to have made them all up, but who knows. She has a lot of time on her hands. My nephew married an Asian woman he met in grad school and her parents are still there. I have seen the cultural difference for sure, and the difference in parenting, but she is devoted to their child and even she would find this unacceptable. This is a lot crazy you’ve gotten yourself into lol. What you should not do, if you are a decent person, is pretend that you can marry a woman with a kid, no matter how old, and expect that he will not be part of your lives. That she accepts that from you reflects very poorly on her. I truly hope this all works out for you, but having to get to know your wife AFTER the wedding doesn’t leave me real hopeful. It’s all backwards.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Thanks for the additional details. I try to give some more feedback.
> 
> 
> On this, I think she needs to find the courage to leave. If she has 15 years of experience in day care she should have no problem finding another one to work at. It even sounds like the owner might give her a reference. She is married and should be telling everyone. If she is so fearful of what this boss will say, she MUST get out of that situation. There is no other solution.
> ...



@BigDaddyNY
Sincere thank you for your thoughtful responses. My reply to you yesterday was a long one! So, I appreciate your time in thinking about my issues. This forum seems more valuable than an expensive therapist!

And to respond to your views:

1. I agree that my wife should leave that toxic workplace that belongs in a Third World country, not Canada! I aim to go and live with her before Christmas. So, with some confidence, I hope she can move to another, more modern daycare centre. With over 15 years of experience with children, I do agree that she can get plenty of other jobs in that field.

2. As I said earlier, I plan to move in with her within the next few months. So, she has to make it public that she re-married and I am her husband. I noticed that this is something that is really giving her anxiety. Even the episodes of palpitations she had two days in a row, shortly before she started her shifts at the daycare have to be evidence of this anxiety. I just have to wait and see. But, even her close friend, a female, has told her that my wife better tell everyone at daycare about me "because your husband will not be happy otherwise." So, my wife knows what she has to do. However, I still believe that her bullying boss is the main reason for not wanting to tell everyone at her daycare. The boss has the image of a Mafia boss! I have heard her regularly in the background of our video calls during the lunch breaks. The boss is a truly frightening figure.

3. She has never said that she does not want the single guys to know she is married. But, as Henry James famously said, "Show, Don't Tell." And my wife's actions seem to suggest that she does not want the fathers, regardless of whether they are single or married, to know that she is married. As she said to me last week, "four people at daycare know about you. The rest don't need to know."

4. Yes, the lying part unsettles me every time. If she lies to her son, why wouldn't she lie to me?

5. I will not stand in the way of my wife's relationship with her son. But, there is a Freudian backstory to their relationship. I have to disclose it another time as I am rushing these replies. It is because of the Freudian issues that I am seriously against my wife spending much time with her 20-year old son from the first marriage. More about this later in the week when I get the time. I would be interested in your take on that issue.

Thanks again for your time and thoughts.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> I hope you don’t think my response was brutal as in mean. I’m just able to respond without emotion because I don’t know you and I always try to reply using logic. I did read your lengthy explanations. Thank you for all of that clarification. I’m not sure it changes much though. I will address the part about the son. I have an 18 year old son. My friends all have kids in or around this age range. Some really good and easy, some are doing these kind of kid things. It is unfathomable to me that I would EVER walk out of my child’s life. And really, drinking and having sex isn’t exactly unusual behavior for a young man in this age range. I can’t stand it when we’re away for a weekend and now he doesn’t come because he’s old enough to stay home and he has a job. He’s a really good kid but even if he wasn’t, I would feel the same. Now that he’s in college, working, an athlete, a gym rat and has a girlfriend, I don’t always see him a lot each day, but I do see him, and we text and talk daily while he’s out and about. It is completely unnatural for a good mother to see her child only handful of times over 2 years. And for him to not even know where she lives? Omg. This is a huge red flag to me. It’s just really bizarre. All of these excuses she has, they are so elaborate that it seems impossible to have made them all up, but who knows. She has a lot of time on her hands. My nephew married an Asian woman he met in grad school and her parents are still there. I have seen the cultural difference for sure, and the difference in parenting, but she is devoted to their child and even she would find this unacceptable. This is a lot crazy you’ve gotten yourself into lol. What you should not do, if you are a decent person, is pretend that you can marry a woman with a kid, no matter how old, and expect that he will not be part of your lives. That she accepts that from you reflects very poorly on her. I truly hope this all works out for you, but having to get to know your wife AFTER the wedding doesn’t leave me real hopeful. It’s all backwards.



@Teacherwifemom 
Sincere thank you for your candid views. I really wanted a wife and mother's opinion on my situation. 

I have to give you a detailed reply at another time as I am in a hurry at the moment. You raised a lot of key issues.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I hope your Avatars picking isn't an omen!


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> I hope your Avatars picking isn't an omen!


@SunCMars 
I love that song by Echo & The Bunnymen! 

What exactly do you mean by _"I hope your Avatars picking isn't an omen!_"?


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> I hope you don’t think my response was brutal as in mean. I’m just able to respond without emotion because I don’t know you and I always try to reply using logic. I did read your lengthy explanations. Thank you for all of that clarification. I’m not sure it changes much though. I will address the part about the son. I have an 18 year old son. My friends all have kids in or around this age range. Some really good and easy, some are doing these kind of kid things. It is unfathomable to me that I would EVER walk out of my child’s life. And really, drinking and having sex isn’t exactly unusual behavior for a young man in this age range. I can’t stand it when we’re away for a weekend and now he doesn’t come because he’s old enough to stay home and he has a job. He’s a really good kid but even if he wasn’t, I would feel the same. Now that he’s in college, working, an athlete, a gym rat and has a girlfriend, I don’t always see him a lot each day, but I do see him, and we text and talk daily while he’s out and about. It is completely unnatural for a good mother to see her child only handful of times over 2 years. And for him to not even know where she lives? Omg. This is a huge red flag to me. It’s just really bizarre. All of these excuses she has, they are so elaborate that it seems impossible to have made them all up, but who knows. She has a lot of time on her hands. My nephew married an Asian woman he met in grad school and her parents are still there. I have seen the cultural difference for sure, and the difference in parenting, but she is devoted to their child and even she would find this unacceptable. This is a lot crazy you’ve gotten yourself into lol. What you should not do, if you are a decent person, is pretend that you can marry a woman with a kid, no matter how old, and expect that he will not be part of your lives. That she accepts that from you reflects very poorly on her. I truly hope this all works out for you, but having to get to know your wife AFTER the wedding doesn’t leave me real hopeful. It’s all backwards.



@Teacherwifemom 

It was interesting to hear about the relationship you have with your son. To me, it seems 'normal.' 

You wrote: 
_*"It is completely unnatural for a good mother to see her child only handful of times over 2 years. And for him to not even know where she lives? Omg. This is a huge red flag to me. It’s just really bizarre."*_

You and many other contributors to this discussion were also outraged that my wife would not tell her son from the first marriage that she re-married. She was married for over twenty years. Then, at the start of the first lockdown in 2020, I appeared in her life. And within six months, she left her marital home with just a text to her son who was 18-years old at the time. 

Now, two years later, she has managed to restrict much contact with him. Of course she misses him. And gets emotional when she thinks about him. Yet, she has lived two years without contacting him, or vice versa. Most women in my life in England know about my position. And even they said that as a mother, they could never leave their son. Even if they had to, they would speak to that son on a regular basis. 

So, why does my wife find it easy to live without much contact from the only child she had? 

I could start a separate thread about this. But, I am going to keep it here as the issues we discussed here are connected to understanding the way my wife behaves towards the son from the first marriage. 

Here are some details that might help you understand. And in return, I hope you could give me some insights or advice. As many others had written here before, I do know that I had made a terrible mistake in marrying her. But, I have to be pragmatic now. And at my age, I can't afford to go back on the dating websites and apps. So, I have to try and dance with this devil of a situation and try and make the best of it. 

1. My wife never wanted to have children. In fact, during the first seven years of her marriage, she succeeded in not getting pregnant! However, she is from a Third World country with different values towards marriage and children. After living in Canada for six years, she went back to her 'home country' with her husband. And there, many people criticised and mocked her for being childless. Was there something wrong with her, mentally or physically? After six years of marriage, how come she is childless? And she got a lot of emotional pressure from her mother and the mother's sisters. So, when she returned to Canada, she decided to have a child. 

And the child birth and what came afterwards were traumatic. She became distant with her husband. She didn't enjoy sex with him anymore. She devoted most of her time to this baby boy. She gave her everything to him. Many people close to her told her that she was being over-protective. But, she carried on. During my time of getting to know her, she has said many times that she regrets having this boy. She hates her mother and other relatives for pressuring her to have this child. She feels that her life changed for the worse when this child came in to her life. Yet, once she had him, she did give her all. 

2. Breast feeding.
She breastfed this boy until he was five years old. Now, I don't know much about this topic. But, most people I know told me that it is irregular to breastfeed a boy until he is five years old. 
Here is where the Freudian element to my wife's past comes in to the discussion. About ten years ago, my wife's relationship with her husband had become more dysfunctional. So, she took a separate room in the house. She slept there while the husband slept in another room. Of course, he would pressure her to have sex with him. And she would give in do that. But, she would always sleep in her own room. So, what happened to the son? Well, she told me that the son would occasionally get in to bed with her and sleep with her. So, I asked, "Until what age did he do this?" My wife said this happened until the son was about fifteen. Isn't this highly irregular? 

3. Nudity. 
About four months after my wife left her marital home, she went back to retrieve some important documents. It was about 1 pm on a weekday. She expected her 18-year old son to be at school. So, she opened the door and went inside. She had me on a video call so it felt as if I was going inside that house with her. Before she went past the front door, she called for her son. 
There was no sound. So, she went to his room to check. And there, the son was lying there, naked. Instead of asking him to put on some clothes, she held the camera in a way so I could not see much! But, I knew he was naked. 

She carried on talking to him, asking why he was not at school or at his part time job. And the son quickly figured out that his mother had me on the video call. This incensed him. So, he went crazy. So, she ended the video call. 

About twenty minutes later, she came out of the house and video called me. She came out with the documents. I asked, "Was he naked the whole time?" She said, "yes... He is like that. I told him many times before. But, he won't listen. He would tell me I came out from you. So..." I said, "he is eighteen... Why didn't you get out of the room until he put on his clothes?" 

She said, "he was upset." It turned out that the son had followed her in to every room of that house, being naked and having a conversation. 

Then, she want back to her daycare centre. And then, decided that she had to check on her son again. So, she went back to see him. And again, despite about thirty minutes having passed since the last visit, the son was still naked as she chatted to him. 

Later that day, she got upset with me for saying that her parenting was awful for allowing the son to be naked in front of him. I said, "even if he were five years old, you can't allow him to be naked around you all the time. But, to allow him to sleep next to you in his mid-teens? And was he naked when he slept next to you?" She didn't answer that. 

And when he was sixteen, he had injured his hand. So, she said she even bathed him. I asked "how come the father didn't bathe him? That's the father's job." She said her husband hates to bathe his son. He wouldn't even change his diapers when he was a baby! 

My assessment as to why she found it easy to leave the son and the husband was easy. Her son had become sexually active in his mid-teens with the girls around his age group. The turning point of my relationship with her was this: one morning, she had not gone to work. Usually, she rarely misses work. The son assumed she had gone to work. So, he was on the phone, in his room, talking to his friend about his sexual conquests with many girls. She was livid. She phoned her husband at his office and asked if he knew about this. The husband told her "they all do that. I told him to use a condom and be careful." 

She told me that this was what made her want to run away from her marital home. She felt she had no control over her son. But, in reality, she must have been upset that her position as the main focus of her son's love had disappeared. You could say jealousy. The son might be having his fun elsewhere, and with many girls. 

I am not saying that there was incest in this mother-son relationship. I could not ask that question. But, we can infer that this relationship was dangerously inappropriate on so many levels. I really don't know what happened when the son slept on the same king size bed as her. She would say, "whenever he got upset, he would come in to my room and sleep next to me." I asked, "until what age did he do that?" "Until about sixteen." 

So, to answer many others as to why she wants to keep me a secret from her son, now you might understand. And you might understand why I have to keep the mother and son apart. At least one contributor said that I was being selfish in trying to keep the mother away from her son. I want to keep them apart because the son is a bigger threat to our marriage than any man she comes across at the daycare centre. 

At one point, I asked her, "If you had a daughter, and she was fifteen years old, and she went and slept naked next to your husband, would you say that's 'normal'?"

She didn't answer that. So, I asked, "how about if the same fifteen year old daughter spent most of her time in the house naked while her father was around? How could that be ok?"

Again, no answer. 

I knew about the nature of her relationship about three months in to our relationship, two years ago. So, why didn't I end the relationship? Well, it goes back to the issue of how hard it was to find anyone with whom I could have a romantic / sexual relationship. It was my scarcity mindset. I thought after failing to find anyone for decades, I wanted this woman, despite all these challenges. Only those men who had failed over many years would empathise with my situation. 

And this is why I ended up marrying her. It was better than wasting so much time and money on dating websites, dating apps, and dates. 

So, now, what shall I do? The positive is that we spend a lot of time on video calls, despite being 5,000 miles apart with a seven hour time difference. It would be near impossible for her to cheat in a sexual way with me. But, emotionally, she might be cheating. And this is what unsettles me now... And later, when the opportunity arises, she could cheat sexually? I really don't know. 

As others had said earlier on in this discussion, I got myself in to a big mess. And I know that. At the same time, I do feel that I have to take the risk to find some happiness with a woman. And apart from these suspicions and doubts, our relationship is good. 

Anyway, what would you do in my situation?


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

I hate to say it, but the more you explain, the more red flags there are. The situation with the son is bizarre. My 18 and 15 year old would NEVER want me to see them naked, and I probably haven’t since they were about 6 and stopped taking baths. It is 110% abnormal and inappropriate for them to have any contact or conversation while he is naked. Literally, anything beyond accidentally walking in on him and both of them being mortified and immediately closing a door is…I can’t even find the word.

My 18 and 15 year old are both very close to me, and wouldn’t dream of sleeping in my bed with me. Btw, I think that’s fine prepuberty. Post puberty boys don’t want to sleep with their mom. Now if one of the kids were sick or sad - say a break up - and wanted to lay with me I would love that. But they just wouldn’t lol. Now I hug and kiss my boys every day, multiple times every single day. My teens are good sports about it. That’s affection. Nakedness is wrong.

And having a broken hand in no way requires his mother to bathe him at SIXTEEN. I teach high school. I’ve known thousands of teenage boys, every one of whom would be mortified by the mere suggestion of it.

I’m going to say this, and I don’t mean to be a jerk, but she is a HOT mess. Just reread all of the stories/explanations you have written about her. I don’t even think she’s cheating on you, which was your original concern. I can’t fathom that you would leave your country, family and friends to come here to try to build a relationship with her. I still don’t get why she’s practically deserted the son. It’s not like she was freaked out by his nakedness. Do you think she should be or will stay estranged from him forever? He’s not going away.

And remember, this is a big one, you really have no idea what her marriage was like or if what she’s telling you is the truth because she has no problem lying to people. A lot. I think you should chalk this up to a bad decision that you made because you didn’t see a lot of other options, which you already acknowledge. Consider the 20 grand a gift and save yourself the year or two of trauma and drama that’s coming if you do this. Because that’s what it will be. You can’t fix this level of weird.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Well....for this one , I'm going to keep my opinion to myself . I can't offer any advice that would not sound Judgmental. That's the strangest mother / son dynamic I have ever read. 

Best of luck. JIMI


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I'm on the same page with @Teacherwifemom I have a 22 yo son and a 24 yo daughter. They would never be so nonchalant about nudity in front of us. Every bit of the relationship you described between her and her son is far from what I would call normal. I've known people from certain European cultures that are not as rigid as we are about nudity, but even they would consider her interaction with him odd. The fact that she and he were so unphased by his nudity means it has been common place and normalized. I'm sure he was nude when sharing the bed with him. 

It sounds like a bit of an Oedipus complex going on. I'm wondering if there is jealousy (on the son's part) at the core of why she won't tell him about being married to you. 

Honestly, you must be really, really desperate if you stick this out. What are the positives of being with her? What do you love about her?


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> I hate to say it, but the more you explain, the more red flags there are. The situation with the son is bizarre. My 18 and 15 year old would NEVER want me to see them naked, and I probably haven’t since they were about 6 and stopped taking baths. It is 110% abnormal and inappropriate for them to have any contact or conversation while he is naked. Literally, anything beyond accidentally walking in on him and both of them being mortified and immediately closing a door is…I can’t even find the word.
> 
> My 18 and 15 year old are both very close to me, and wouldn’t dream of sleeping in my bed with me. Btw, I think that’s fine prepuberty. Post puberty boys don’t want to sleep with their mom. Now if one of the kids were sick or sad - say a break up - and wanted to lay with me I would love that. But they just wouldn’t lol. Now I hug and kiss my boys every day, multiple times every single day. My teens are good sports about it. That’s affection. Nakedness is wrong.
> 
> ...



@Teacherwifemom 
I wanted to hear the views from a wife and mother. And your insights are helpful. 

I agree with everything you say here. I have many Dark Nights of the Soul over my relationship with my wife, and during those times, I have gone through the many things you mentioned here. What I find amazing in myself is how I had tolerated this relationship my wife might have had with her son that is clearly incestuous. It has to come down to my fear of going through another twenty years without someone to love and love who would love me. I try to be objective about my problems and work out why I am doing this. And getting insights from the members of Talk About Marriage is becoming important. In my own circle of family, relatives and friends, I can't speak to them about all these issues. They know the general stuff. But, how could I tell them all the things I written here. However, I told my younger sister about the son's nudity and all the other issues I mentioned in my last post. And my sister's reaction was the same as yours. And at the same time,. my sister knows the level of difficulties I had with forming relationships with women. So, this is why she has not been brutal with instructions as you have been! 

I agree about teenage boys becoming mortified at the thought of their mothers seeing them naked! So, the nonchalance with which my wife treats her son's nudity shows that she might enjoy it. When I confronted her a few times over a year ago, she kept saying, "I tried many times to get him to wear clothes around the house. He just wouldn't listen to me. So, what can I do?" 

You make a good point about what her marriage like. All I can go is what she has said. I have spoken to her ex-husband's brother in law. And he has said many times that "they had a good marriage. She was his girlfriend in *_*.And they came to Canada.... She went to church. She was supposed to be a good Christian... Then, something catastrophic must have happened for her to leave the marriage...." 

Interestingly, in your reply, you did not mention your views about a mother breastfeeding her son until he was five years old? Is that 'normal' or acceptable? Was it necessary? Who needed it most, the mother or the child? And what does that say about the mother? 

You wrote "You can't fix this level of weird." The problem is that after spending a lot of hours everyday with her over the last two and a half years through video calls, I seemed to have accepted her 'weird' as ordinary! May be I am doing that to lessen the emotional pain I am feeling. 

The bigger problem is I am going against your advice. I will be going to stay with her in Canada. And I have to see what she is like on a day to day basis. I am 50 years old. I want to experience what it is like to be married. That might sound sad and desperate. But, being lonely for decades has made me tolerant of many red flags that would have scared away many men. 

You still don't get why she deserted her son? I think about this a lot. May be she does not want to upset me. She knows how I hate the son and why. But, as others have said, a mother would always pick her child before anyone else. So, how could she live like this? 

I know I am walking in to a new world of problems. And I am likely to need the advice or insights from the members here in the next few months. Thanks again @Teacherwifemom for your views.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm on the same page with @Teacherwifemom I have a 22 yo son and a 24 yo daughter. They would never be so nonchalant about nudity in front of us. Every bit of the relationship you described between her and her son is far from what I would call normal. I've known people from certain European cultures that are not as rigid as we are about nudity, but even they would consider her interaction with him odd. The fact that she and he were so unphased by his nudity means it has been common place and normalized. I'm sure he was nude when sharing the bed with him.
> 
> It sounds like a bit of an Oedipus complex going on. I'm wondering if there is jealousy (on the son's part) at the core of why she won't tell him about being married to you.
> 
> Honestly, you must be really, really desperate if you stick this out. What are the positives of being with her? What do you love about her?


@BigDaddyNY 
Thanks for your views. 

It is good to hear from another parent on the issue of nudity. And it is NOT in my wife's culture to accept nudity between sons and mothers as 'normal.' 

Yes to the son's possible jealousy towards me. 

What are the positives of being with her? What do I love about her? I have to answer this another time. You asked an obvious question. But, I didn't' want to think too much about it. It was a feeling. But what are the positives? Why do I love her? Let me think about it.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> I hate to say it, but the more you explain, the more red flags there are. The situation with the son is bizarre. My 18 and 15 year old would NEVER want me to see them naked, and I probably haven’t since they were about 6 and stopped taking baths. It is 110% abnormal and inappropriate for them to have any contact or conversation while he is naked. Literally, anything beyond accidentally walking in on him and both of them being mortified and immediately closing a door is…I can’t even find the word.
> 
> My 18 and 15 year old are both very close to me, and wouldn’t dream of sleeping in my bed with me. Btw, I think that’s fine prepuberty. Post puberty boys don’t want to sleep with their mom. Now if one of the kids were sick or sad - say a break up - and wanted to lay with me I would love that. But they just wouldn’t lol. Now I hug and kiss my boys every day, multiple times every single day. My teens are good sports about it. That’s affection. Nakedness is wrong.
> 
> ...



@Teacherwifemom 
I already answered your first response. But, I just thought of another question to you, and others reading this discussion. How do you see my wife's relationship with her son changing as soon as I go to Canada and live her? Once again, I want to hear a mother's point of view. And how would the son behave when he finds out that her mother had re-married? She told me last week that a colleague at work (who knows about me) advised my wife to take the son "to McDonalds and spend some time with him. But, don't bring him home." And my wife said that this is something that she wants to do. In August, when I told her that I don't want to buy a second bed. I wanted to stop the prospect of the son staying with us. She went livid. Then, she calmed down. I would not change my position. This is where some contributors might think I am being "selfish" or manipulative. But what concerns me is the background to my wife's relationship with her son. It must have been incestuous on some level. I won't have a problem with the wife seeing her son from a previous marriage if these issues were not involved. 

I do know that she is a "hot mess." And she is high maintenance. But, I have to try to make the best of a bad situation.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> Well....for this one , I'm going to keep my opinion to myself . I can't offer any advice that would not sound Judgmental. That's the strangest mother / son dynamic I have ever read.
> 
> Best of luck. JIMI


 @Jimi007 
It doesn't matter if your advice were to come across as "judgemental." In a strange way, it might help. 

It _is _a strange mother / son dynamic. If you were in my position, what you do other than walk away? It is easy to suggest that to someone else. But, I have to live with that decision. I am going to move in with her and see what happens. As I said a few times before, at the age of 50, I don't have much else to lose. I have seen men in their late 60s and 70s speak about the things they should have done with women. So, while I have some energies and good health left, I have to experience what it is like to have a wife. Sad, but true.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

KillingMoon said:


> @Jimi007
> It doesn't matter if your advice were to come across as "judgemental." In a strange way, it might help.
> 
> It _is _a strange mother / son dynamic. If you were in my position, what you do other than walk away? It is easy to suggest that to someone else. But, I have to live with that decision. I am going to move in with her and see what happens. As I said a few times before, at the age of 50, I don't have much else to lose. I have seen men in their late 60s and 70s speak about the things they should have done with women. So, while I have some energies and good health left, I have to experience what it is like to have a wife. Sad, but true.


That's fair, I go in and out of trainwrecks but I don't regret a thing.

Still, you got into a long distance relationship and now have a long distance marriage?
You known her, in person, for how long - in total?


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

Happy Saturday. I was going to mention the breastfeeding originally, but then decided not to. I personally think breastfeeding until the age of 5 is very abnormal. I personally find it disturbing lol. There’s only a very small percentage of woman that do that as far as I know, and most them are passionate about parenting, which it sounds like your wife never was. If you were to find out that there was some incestuous behavior between them, would that be a deal breaker? And if not, why? About the son. You say you hate him, but I assume it’s because of the things she’s told you since you haven’t met him. But what would make you hate him but not her? Any oddities in their relationship would have come at the hand of the adult, for he was just a child. And maybe there is nothing beyond weird in their relationship. But any mother that chooses a practical stranger who states that he hates and will hate and will not welcome her child over her child is not a good human. That’s literally just a fact. I want to ask you an insensitive question, and I only ask because you have said many times that you have had great difficulty finding a relationship at home, but is there something about you that it makes dating or meeting people more difficult for you? Maybe some disability? Or a personality flaw? Have you ever asked your sisters or friends if they see any reason why making a romantic connection has been so difficult for you? I think you are under the mistaken belief that something is better than nothing, but that is not always the case.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Hello! 

I have not returned to my original post (or this forum) in over a month. And there is a good reason for that. This post started with me asking you for advice about a relationship that started as a long distance one. Well, now, I have moved in with the woman I married about six months ago. 

So, am now going to give you an update about my situation. And I hope you could share your thoughts, advice or insights with me. As I said once before in this discussion, using this website is a lot cheaper and more convenient than seeing a therapist or a counsellor on a weekly basis! And sincere thank you for the many members of this forum who had contributed to this discussion.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> That's fair, I go in and out of trainwrecks but I don't regret a thing.
> 
> Still, you got into a long distance relationship and now have a long distance marriage?
> You known her, in person, for how long - in total?


@RandomDude 

Yes, my situation really is a "trainwreck" from which I am trying to see the positives! 

How long have I known her in total? Well, during my childhood, we knew each other. But, you could say that does not count. So, as adults, I have known her since the early stages of the COVID pandemic. But, most of the relationship had been virtual with me being in the UK and her being in Canada. We had video calls every day. And before I married her, I went to Canada to spend a month. Then, I spent another month when I returned to get married. And now, I have temporarily moved to Canada, to live with her. 

So, in total, to be pedantic, I have spent a total of 67 days in the 'real world', as in being with each other in person.


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## KillingMoon (3 mo ago)

Teacherwifemom said:


> Happy Saturday. I was going to mention the breastfeeding originally, but then decided not to. I personally think breastfeeding until the age of 5 is very abnormal. I personally find it disturbing lol. There’s only a very small percentage of woman that do that as far as I know, and most them are passionate about parenting, which it sounds like your wife never was. If you were to find out that there was some incestuous behavior between them, would that be a deal breaker? And if not, why? About the son. You say you hate him, but I assume it’s because of the things she’s told you since you haven’t met him. But what would make you hate him but not her? Any oddities in their relationship would have come at the hand of the adult, for he was just a child. And maybe there is nothing beyond weird in their relationship. But any mother that chooses a practical stranger who states that he hates and will hate and will not welcome her child over her child is not a good human. That’s literally just a fact. I want to ask you an insensitive question, and I only ask because you have said many times that you have had great difficulty finding a relationship at home, but is there something about you that it makes dating or meeting people more difficult for you? Maybe some disability? Or a personality flaw? Have you ever asked your sisters or friends if they see any reason why making a romantic connection has been so difficult for you? I think you are under the mistaken belief that something is better than nothing, but that is not always the case.



@Teacherwifemom 

Once again, thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response to my last batch of questions to you. 

Since I was here on this forum over a month ago, a lot had changed in my situation. I have moved from the UK to Canada to live with the woman I married about six months ago. So, now more than ever before, I need the advice and insights from TAM members such as yourself. 

To answer your questions or issues: 

1. Thanks for your opinions about breastfeeding a baby boy until he was five years old. This is another topic that I just can't ask any woman in the real world! I am glad that you confirmed my view that it is really disturbing and 'abnormal' for a woman who did not even want to have a child to be suddenly passionate about breastfeeding, especially against the advice of medical staff and friends. 

2. Since I had been living with her, the son had called and texted her. And she continues to be not bothered about not seeing her twenty year old son. On Monday, he texted to say he will be visiting her at her workplace. Then, he never showed up. And no texts to say why he couldn't make it. And she expected him to not show up! But, tomorrow, he has said he will come and see her. But, she is not bothered. She seems nonchalant about it. 


3. You asked: 
_"I want to ask you an insensitive question, and I only ask because you have said many times that you have had great difficulty finding a relationship at home, but is there something about you that it makes dating or meeting people more difficult for you? Maybe some disability? Or a personality flaw? Have you ever asked your sisters or friends if they see any reason why making a romantic connection has been so difficult for you? I think you are under the mistaken belief that something is better than nothing, but that is not always the case."_

Is there something that makes dating or meeting people more difficult for me? I have no disability. Personality flaw? Well, I do have many! Until about two years ago, just before the pandemic, I had been an insanely driven person. My goal was to become the world's best at what I do. And I am in a vocation that is incredibly challenging. But, the rewards are huge! So, I gave up a lot of social life to put in my hours to learn my craft. Even at university, I would put up to 40 hours a week outside the timetabled lectures and seminars. And I happily did that for four years. In those years, I did date a few girls. And they were all beautiful! But, none of those dates progressed to a 'proper relationship.' Sometimes, the girls didn't want to see me again. Sometimes, I didn't like them.

And after uni, I dated more women. But, even here, not a single relationship bloomed in to a stage where I could call someone a 'girlfriend.' (By 'dating', I mean going out and spending time with each other without sex!). 

The feedback I got from women, from my sister to other female relatives and friends was to do with one thing: I was "intense" and "obsessive." In my vocation, these are virtues! But, in romantic and sexual relationships, my positive qualities were obstacles to my finding a girlfriend or a wife. 

At the risk of coming across as self-deluded, crazy or both, I regard myself as a good looking guy. Compared to the guys I went to school with, I look about ten years younger. And many colleagues cannot believe that I am 50 years old. 

And I am not low in self-esteem with regards to many things in life except relationships with women! And even here, I managed to get dates with many beautiful women. I even 'dated' women who were over 25 years younger than me! 

So, why did I end up marrying this particular woman in Canada? 

Well, I really felt that she was the only one who could give me an opportunity to experience intimacy on a daily basis. With other women, I might have done that. But, I could not see it lasting a long time. With this particular woman, because of her cultural and religious beliefs and upbringing, she is likely to be with me longer than most others I had dated so far. I still believe that. 

And at the of 50, I just don't have the patience to spend time on dating apps, dating websites, and then spend more time and money texting and phoning a woman, and then to go on dates... and getting to know her... I did that for over twenty years and found it a despairing experience. So, now, as many others here have said, I am in a "trainwreck" of a relationship. But, I am trying to see the positives and make the best of what life I have left. 

I know this response might make me sound crazy! But, this goes back to my personality as someone who is really intense and driven towards my career / vocational goal. So far, I have not made it to the top of my profession. The reason is that I felt inadequate without a woman with whom I could have regular physical, emotional and sexual intimacy. Now, by marrying a woman, I created a 'wife.' This means I don't have to waste time and money chasing girls and relationships. And that time and money could be devoted to my professional goals. 

In the mean time, even this eccentric choice of lifestyle comes with a price! And that's one of the reasons why I started this discussion a few weeks ago. The price is a list of suspicions and insecurities. But, I have to live with those bad emotions. And I hope that in the next few weeks and months, members of this forum could help me with advice when I am feeling helpless. 

I sincerely thank you @Teacherwifemom and all the others for your contributions.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Jesus dude, I'm just wondering if you ever got laid, or if your first time was after 30? I said this not to offend you, but to tell you that you come across as a man that uses his brain to pedagogically analyze (or over analyze) everything, but in reality never got to actually do much with a woman.

It's like everything has to be intellectually dissected. Like those guys, that lived their whole life in academia, but never held a job in the real world. It seems that that's your same approach to romance. No wonder why women would not be interested in you after a few dates. 

Are you yourself Asian? I asked because I have worked in my field (scientific discipline) with so many males of Asian origin who are brilliant in their field, but nothing, but social inepts, especially with women. So, are you one of those academia dudes, or just socially inept with women? 

An intellectual man can look from the outside very intriguing to women, specially to younger women, but when they get to interact with guys like you after a couple, or very few dates, they're out. Think about it. I didn't read your whole tread, basically just a few of your posts, but I thought it was enough for me to catalog you ad one of those men that dedicated their life to academia, and very little about the real world, especially the world of dealing with women on a romantic level.
I apologize if I'm way out of base with my assumptions based on a few of your replies.


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