# Omg this is really painful and hard.



## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

I never really talk about it. But when I do, the emotions start flowing, and I almost can't handle it. To recap for those who don't know my story:

-He was emotionally abusive. Put me down, insulted me, did things he knew would hurt me, did not care a lick about my feelings, threatened to leave to make me cry, treated me god awfully, broke me down and tore me apart. 
-I left after eight months of this.
-Saw someone else for a short period (rebound to get over H quickly, was dumb)
-Was going to work things out with H, then saw a new email address he had created, found out he had been posting ads on Craigslist soliciting sex to MEN (yes, men) and inviting them (strange men) to our home where our baby lives. Also responded to a woman's ad.
-A couple of weeks ago he sexually assaulted me while I was sleeping...
-He has been incessantly trying to get me back

Anyway this is so hard. I have a family member who has been married for 20 years and she thinks I should go back to him. She says that me seeing another man after the separation is the same as what he did, so I should forgive him. She says this is what you have to go through to have a lasting marriage, getting through the hard times like this. She said the people who say I shouldn't work it out are those who have been divorced multiple times and I'll follow the same path. I don't want to be divorced multiple times.

Anyway he has been super sweet 24/7 for the past couple of months (except for that one night) and my strong will against him is wearing thin. Half of me is completely disgusted by him and doesn't want to be with him at all ever, and half of me wants to take him back to have my family together and because my family member (who has been married such a long time) thinks anything can be worked out. I want to be married a long time like her. But anyway, this is why I came to you guys, because I don't want to give in. He's really good at getting me to come back (calling me babe and saying "I love you" incessantly, just generally chasing me a lot). Btw I will get money to file for D in January.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

You'll never be safe around him again. He assaulted you while you were sleeping? Get out and get out fast. (And I have not been divorced)


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Btw I do not hold anything against or value less the opinion/advice of those who have been married multiple times, just repeated what my family member said.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, I've been married 20 years and I think you should divorce him as quickly as possible.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I never really talk about it. But when I do, the emotions start flowing, and I almost can't handle it. To recap for those who don't know my story:
> 
> -He was emotionally abusive. Put me down, insulted me, did things he knew would hurt me, did not care a lick about my feelings, threatened to leave to make me cry, treated me god awfully, broke me down and tore me apart.
> -I left after eight months of this.
> ...


Please don't.



ariel_angel77 said:


> She says that me seeing another man after the separation is the same as what he did...


While I'm of the opinion that the guy that you were seeing was a f*cking douche, I can't agree w/ this. At all.

Sorry, but not even close.



ariel_angel77 said:


> ...so I should forgive him.


Yes, but forgiveness and divorce are NOT mutually exclusive.



ariel_angel77 said:


> She says this is what you have to go through to have a lasting marriage, getting through the hard times like this.


Hard times? Sure. But all ^this^...? No. Hell no.



ariel_angel77 said:


> She said the people who say I shouldn't work it out are those who have been divorced multiple times and I'll follow the same path. I don't want to be divorced multiple times.


It's not a propensity for divorce that would lead someone to believe that a person in your situation should divorce; it's SANITY and a modicum of SELF-RESPECT that would lead someone to that conclusion.

And by the way, I've been w/ Mrs. Gus for 21 years, married for (almost) 15 years, and have been divorced exactly 0 times.



ariel_angel77 said:


> Anyway he has been super sweet 24/7 for the past couple of months (except for that one night) and my strong will against him is wearing thin.


Read that again. Does it make sense to you? Didn't think so.



ariel_angel77 said:


> Half of me is completely disgusted by him and doesn't want to be with him at all ever, and half of me wants to take him back to have my family together and because my family member (who has been married such a long time) thinks anything can be worked out.


Listen to your former half; it's your better half. And your family member is correct... anything can be "worked out". Assuming, of course, that you have a broom and rug large enough for all of this bullsh*t.



ariel_angel77 said:


> I want to be married a long time like her.


That's great! But do it w/ someone who is worthy of you.

From DAY ONE.



ariel_angel77 said:


> But anyway, this is why I came to you guys, because I don't want to give in. He's really good at getting me to come back (calling me babe and saying "I love you" incessantly, just generally chasing me a lot). Btw I will get money to file for D in January.


FILE! FILE!! FILE!!!


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your family member is wrong. You need to leave him. He is trying to draw you back in. He needs that power over you to feel superior. Look at narcissistic tendency and see how many traits he possesses. A marriage should be a relationship where you try and meet each others physical and emotional needs. It is about mutual respect, understanding, and working together as a team towards a common goal. For the sake of your child, you at least have to be one of the healthy parent. You can't be that in a relationship with him. He will not change in that short amount of time. It would take years of specialist help to even have a chance of repairing him, and yet it is no guarantee.

Your child will most likely emulate one of you or share certain factors. You want him to grow in a healthy, stable environment. Unfortunately that is not you as a couple. He needs to learn how a relationship operates, and if your child was in your position what would advise? Plus this is the only life you will experience and could you be in that marriage for the rest of your life without regrets?


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

My friend was once in your position. Long before I knew her. To date, she has been raped by that man who dares call himself her husband. Not only that, but he invited some other douche, a stranger, to join him. While the kids were in the house. Sleeping.
Oh, how I wish I knew her when she was you. How my heart breaks for her every day. Don't be her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jld said:


> Well, I've been married 20 years and I think you should divorce him as quickly as possible.


was married over 30 years (between 2 marriages) and still think she you should divorce him... ok


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I have been married 30 years. Just because people are married a long time does not mean it is a good marriage, or that the people were happy. If you are miserable now, chances are you will still be miserable in 10, 20, or 30 years. People are who they are. Some will change, but it is hard and few and far between that do.

You can stay in this marriage so you can say you weren't divorced, have been married a long time and continue to be treated like crap. Or you can take a chance and find someone that isn't going to put you down and do who knows what to you when you are sleeping.

But what ever you decide - you need counseling. Only someone that has issues them self will let others dictate how they live. You are letting your abusive husband and some other family member make your decisions for you. That is not good or healthy.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

anja said:


> My friend was once in your position. Long before I knew her. To date, she has been raped by that man who dares call himself her husband. Not only that, but he invited some other douche, a stranger, to join him. While the kids were in the house. Sleeping.
> Oh, how I wish I knew her when she was you. How my heart breaks for her every day. Don't be her.


I don't even know what to say to this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> was married over 30 years (between 2 marriages) and still think she you should divorce him... ok


I said that to counteract her family member who somehow has credibility because she has been married 20 years. My point is that I am another person married 20 years and I totally disagree with her family member. I say divorce, young friend!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jld said:


> I said that to counteract her family member who somehow has credibility because she has been married 20 years. My point is that I am another person married 20 years and I totally disagree with her family member. I say divorce, young friend!


I understood why you posted it. I was trying for some levity... the  was a funny face made to myself


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I understood why you posted it. I was trying for some levity... the  was a funny face made to myself


Oh, okay. Thanks for explaining.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

anja said:


> My friend was once in your position. Long before I knew her. To date, she has been raped by that man who dares call himself her husband. Not only that, but he invited some other douche, a stranger, to join him. While the kids were in the house. Sleeping.
> Oh, how I wish I knew her when she was you. How my heart breaks for her every day. Don't be her.





GusPolinski said:


> I don't even know what to say to this.


OK, I've thought about it. This motherf*cker's face needs some one-on-one time w/ the business end of a tire iron.

Oh, and his buddy as well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But we want to keep people out of jail, Gus . . .


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ariel, the man ASSAULTED you!! GET HIM OUT! Good god woman...staying married for a long time is not worth abuse, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of in my life! Any man can call you babe, is that seriously keeping you with this narcissistic a$$hole?? Find your self respect and your mother tiger instincts for your child and divorce this low life piece of sh!t!

Editing to add...YES, I have been married three times, wanna know why? Because I have too much self respect for myself and my kid...I would much rather be divorced than to allow some man to continue to treat me like sh!t for the rest of my life!


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> OK, I've thought about it. This motherf*cker's face needs some one-on-one time w/ the business end of a tire iron.
> 
> Oh, and his buddy as well.


Well, I'd hate for my kids to have to send me mothers day cards to jail. But yes, I've wished worse than that on him.

A couple months back, my friend asked me to take 2 of her 4 kids for a few days, so she could travel to her dying grandmother. I was up for it, everything was planned, and then she said "[husband] is going to come take them out for dinner a couple times". It was the hardest thing ever, but I said he isn't welcome on my property, nor am I willing to meet him places. He wasn't going to let the children stay with me, if he was unable to have visitation (they are married, they all live together). She found them some other place to stay. This guy calls himself a Christian. Shakes my faith like you wouldn't believe!

Anyway, done hijacking. I've made my point.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

jld said:


> But we want to keep people out of jail, Gus . . .


Look, I'm not saying that anyone should take any sort of conscious, deliberate, well-thought-out, "I've got 3 friends ready to give sworn statements that we were all out at dinner on the other side of town when it happened" type of action to make this happen, but if he were to fall prey to some sort of _"accident"_ while changing a tire... well, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever.

Oh, and his buddy as well.

ETA: In case it's not clear, I'm joking. Mostly.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I have a family member who has been married for 20 years and she thinks I should go back to him.


What she thinks has nothing to do with your situation.



ariel_angel77 said:


> She says that me seeing another man after the separation is the same as what he did, so I should forgive him.


Baloney. YOU were not putting your husband down constantly, acting like a single woman from day one, bringing strange men around without his knowledge (or consent), and certainly feeding your daughter. You were also not trolling for sex on Craigslist. And forgiveness does NOT mean you have to stay with him. Divorce this jerk and move on.



ariel_angel77 said:


> She says this is what you have to go through to have a lasting marriage, getting through the hard times like this.


Baloney again. This is not "hard times;" he's been like this to you -- his faithful, loving wife -- from day one.



ariel_angel77 said:


> She said the people who say I shouldn't work it out are those who have been divorced multiple times and I'll follow the same path. I don't want to be divorced multiple times.


 One divorce does not equal multiple marriages ... and your family member has some brass ones to assume things about others. I'll bet if this family member went through half of what you've gone through, she'd be telling you to file yesterday. 

I agree about the individual counseling also (once you're done with this idiot); you'll learn things about yourself that will help you in future relationships.



ariel_angel77 said:


> ... he has been super sweet 24/7 for the past couple of months (except for that one night) and my strong will against him is wearing thin.


Of course he's being sweet. He wants to maintain control over you ... and he's sensing he's losing it daily. Which is a good thing! You deserve better than him. He's cycling through the "abuser cycle" (I can't remember who posted it originally, but I think it would help you to review it again).



ariel_angel77 said:


> Half of me is completely disgusted by him and doesn't want to be with him at all ever, and half of me wants to take him back to have my family together and because my family member (who has been married such a long time) thinks anything can be worked out. I want to be married a long time like her.


I know it's hard; you spent a lot of time and emotional energy on this man (who was never worthy of you to begin with), thinking that somehow he'd turn around and see the light. And I'm sure you don't want to disappoint your family member. 

However, your disgust is more than justified. He's a user and a loser, and in no way, shape or form is husband or family-man material. Frankly, I doubt you'd want to be married to someone like that for 20 years or more. Besides, YOU have the right to be respected, cherished and loved. You're certainly never going to get that with this turd.



ariel_angel77 said:


> But anyway, this is why I came to you guys, because I don't want to give in. He's really good at getting me to come back (calling me babe and saying "I love you" incessantly, just generally chasing me a lot).


Good for you -- you're standing strong! Stay strong. I know it's damn hard ... but trust me, your life will be a lot easier. Stop discussing this with your family member. And make yourself file in January.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Omg I am shaking my head at your family member. This is not hard times, this is domestic violence (he RAPED you ffs!!), emotional abuse and infidelity. This is NOT a marriage.

If you were my daughter Ariel, I would be absolutely heartbroken at your situation - and questioning where on earth I went wrong in raising you to believe this is acceptable.

File for divorce.

I've never been divorced either.


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

Please, get away as far as possible from that man! Also, talk to your lawyer about having unknown people in the house while the baby is there, it might be helpful in a custody battle.

Please, read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...prepare-potential-divorce-custody-battle.html .

Are you in counselling or any sort of divorce/abuse support group? Please, also contact an organisation for domestic abuse, because the things you've described IS domestic abuse!

Best wishes


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## jp4000 (Dec 16, 2014)

In this case, I agree, divorce. I have been struggling in my marriage, nothing like this but what I am starting to realize is that leaving (or the thought of leaving) is way harder than staying.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> Look, I'm not saying that anyone should take any sort of conscious, deliberate, well-thought-out, "I've got 3 friends ready to give sworn statements that we were all out at dinner on the other side of town when it happened" type of action to make this happen, but if he were to fall prey to some sort of _"accident"_ while changing a tire... well, that wouldn't be the worst thing ever.
> 
> Oh, and his buddy as well.
> 
> ETA: In case it's not clear, I'm joking. Mostly.


People don't typically go to jail for punching someone. Just don't cross the line from misdemeanor assault to capital assault (ie. tire iron). If they did, the jail would fill up every Friday after the bar closes.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Ariel,
Leave, File for divorce and leave.

He's acting like such a typical abuser. He rapes you and assaults you then acts all sweet and nice. It will happen again. It will. And has he started the "I only did it because you ........" And the crazy justification can be something as meaningless as -you made be peanut butter and jelly when I wanted jelly and peanut butter. I am not kidding.

If you family member thinks this is what marriage is supposed to be let her marry him. She is wrong, and dangerous. This is not how men behave. This is how animals behave. You did not marry an animal.

Leave.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I can understand the desire to work things out and not admit that a you were part of a failed relationships. 

However....

He is Gay 
He Sexually Assaulted you

This shouldn't even be a consideration time to go find a new life


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Anyway this is so hard. I have a family member who has been married for 20 years and she thinks I should go back to him. She says that me seeing another man after the separation is the same as what he did, so I should forgive him. She says this is what you have to go through to have a lasting marriage, getting through the hard times like this. She said the people who say I shouldn't work it out are those who have been divorced multiple times and I'll follow the same path. I don't want to be divorced multiple times.


:crazy:

I've been married to my first H since 1982. I have 4 M children. If they had a spouse who was having craigs list homosexual hook-ups and raping them with my grandchild in the house.... Grrrr

Your child will be better off without this influence. Please please PLEASE no rebounds!!! Get yourself into counseling ASAP and spend a good long time getting your "man picker" fixed before you get into any other relationship.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

You H is very toxic to you and your child. He is on a destructive path with the solicitation of men and women on Craig's list. Rape has entered the picture. In short, H is capable of anything. It is time to remove yourself and child from this loose cannon.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

frusdil said:


> he RAPED you ffs!!


Oh another thing, my family member doesn't think it was rape because he's my husband and I let him sleep in the bed that night (even though I made it clear I didn't want to do anything that night and I rejected his kiss).


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Ariel,
> Leave, File for divorce and leave.
> 
> He's acting like such a typical abuser. He rapes you and assaults you then acts all sweet and nice. It will happen again. It will. And has he started the "I only did it because you ........" And the crazy justification can be something as meaningless as -you made be peanut butter and jelly when I wanted jelly and peanut butter. I am not kidding.


Omg. He totally did this. He used to blame his bigger actions on me fixing his sandwich wrong. He also attributes ALL of the abuse and the way he treated me to me not cleaning enough. He and my family member both say that I had an equal hand in us not working out. Not kidding.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You seriously need to stop talking with this family member. They do NOT have your best interest at heart! I dont know why you are even entertaining the things they are telling you...pull out your common sense....


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

It is all about justification, and he wants you to be broken down. A relationship should promote personal growth, and he is trying the exact opposite. It is all about power and control his love of it. His being sweet is all an act that he is trying to draw you back in. If you have any evidence, gather them, and only communicate to him if you can get it recorded. Say little as possible, and don't give him anything he can use. Stay calm, cool, collective, and wear a neutral mask. The less he gets from you, the more truer personality of his will come through. Trust me, he will get very bad on what he will say and probably do. Protect yourself, because someone like that hates losing control of something.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Ariel, please find a way out.

The abuse will likely escalate over time, mine did. It started out with just verbal jabs, then name calling, then threats, then worse. I put up with it too long, believing he was "just" sick, or overwhelmed with life. H won't get better unless and until he goes to treatment. I ended it when the focus of his anger started shifting from me to the kids. That, and his infidelity came out. I mean what exactly did I have left.

You know who is responsible for his outbursts, and you know it isn't you.
Nothing you ever said or didn't say, or did or didn't do ever, ever, justifies how you are being treated. Nothing.
Maybe you should call the local women's shelter and talk to someone who might be able to help you develop an exit strategy. I say that because the most dangerous time can be immediately after you leave. You must have a plan.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Omg. He totally did this. He used to blame his bigger actions on me fixing his sandwich wrong. He also attributes ALL of the abuse and the way he treated me to me not cleaning enough. He and my family member both say that I had an equal hand in us not working out. Not kidding.


Let the family member have him if they are of mind that H is so wonderful. Good luck to them.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Oh another thing, my family member doesn't think it was rape because he's my husband and I let him sleep in the bed that night (even though I made it clear I didn't want to do anything that night and I rejected his kiss).


Well I hope you enjoyed your trip back in time to the 1950's.

Wow. Yet another reason to ignore pretty much anything that this person has to say.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Omg. He totally did this. He used to blame his bigger actions on me fixing his sandwich wrong. He also attributes ALL of the abuse and the way he treated me to me not cleaning enough. He and my family member both say that I had an equal hand in us not working out. Not kidding.


Yeah, but that's only because you keep letting him come back. 

Seriously... this isn't going to work out.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

And Ariel, where are you at these days? IIRC, you'd dropped out of colllege for the semester. Did the school let you stay in campus housing for the remainder of the semester, or did you have to move? If so, where?


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I let him sleep in the bed that night (even though I made it clear I didn't want to do anything that night and I rejected his kiss).



I'm confused. I though you guys weren't living in the same house. What happened?


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

I didn't end up dropping out of college. I finished the semester and stayed out of the apartment while he lived with his grandma. I'm moving in with my mom & stepdad and taking classes online. As far as that night, my car had broken down on the way to take my daughter to him and he came out in the rain and pulled my car with his truck by a chain. He got in the rain to reattach it about 5 times. I had to stay the night. He let me sleep in his bed, I felt thankful and let him sleep in the bed too. But like I said I didn't want to do anything with him.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

You were taking your daughter to a known sex addicts house?

And spent the night yourself?

Now you are assaulted?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

By allowing him to sleep in the bed with you, he apparently felt that gave him permission to have sex with you. Until not too long ago (and still prevalent in the thinking of some) a man could not rape his wife. Consent to sex -- under any circumstances -- was part of marriage. There was no such thing as "no". He and your family member must still think that applies. 

What does your family member think of the fact that he's bisexual? Or is this family member one who believes all men cheat and women are required to put up with it?

As for your family member's knowledge of marriage at 20 years, I was married for 45.5 years to the same man. I'll match my knowledge against anyone's. And my advice to you has always been to get out. 

You're listening to the wrong person.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Stay away from relationships for at least a year or two. You are a sweet heart but not even close to being smart enough or strong enough for a real relationship. Your head is not on straight when it comes to getting involved with bad guys.

You have a very stupid relative. I have been married for 19 and with her for 23 and I am advising you to divorce, get full custody with no unsupervised visits and stay away from men until you are a couple years older and more studied.

You should use the time to examine yourself and get counselling to figure out where you are unhealthy because you are unhealthy and that is why you are attracting and accepting bad guys as mates.

Don't worry about being a single mom. Just learn to be the best mom you can and at some point, a worthwhile man will show up on your radar, after you take the time to become healthy and fix your radar.

My wife was horrible with men and had two terrible marriages and a small son from her second marriage when she met me and I am a catch.

She had some hard lessons to learn about herself and others before she could even recognize what a good relationship looked like.

Take care.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Openminded said:


> By allowing him to sleep in the bed with you, he apparently felt that gave him permission to have sex with you. Until not too long ago (and still prevalent in the thinking of some) a man could not rape his wife. Consent to sex -- under any circumstances -- was part of marriage. There was no such thing as "no". He and your family member must still think that applies.
> 
> What does your family member think of the fact that he's bisexual? Or is this family member one who believes all men cheat and women are required to put up with it?
> 
> ...


Yes, her and my mom both told me that it's automatically part of marriage. I had to go to my Sociology professor to talk to hear that it was sexual assault. Also my family member doesn't think he is gay, and as far as the cheating, she said me seeing someone shortly after separating is equal to all that he did and therefore I should forgive him.

Thanks for the advice.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

foolscotton3 said:


> Now its that guilt that binds your conscience to this abuser.


This is very true, and my problem. He told me he did the Craigslist thing because he read my diary and found me talking about seeing someone else. (Yes, I did tell him on my own before I knew about the snooping.) So my mind tells me, he did the Craigslist thing because of what you did, so that one is your fault. And also my family member and the MC we went to telling us that our problems were small potatoes and there wasn't really any abuse present. The MC also told me that if I thought my problems with H seemed like enough to divorce over, I probably wouldn't make it as a MC (my aspired profession).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Yes, her and my mom both told me that it's automatically part of marriage. I had to go to my Sociology professor to talk to hear that it was sexual assault.


A long time ago in this country and still in some 3rd world country, a woman cannot refuse her husband if he wants sex. In some countries today a man can also still legally beat his wife.

Wife beating is now illegal. So is marital rape.

Forced sex is NOT part of marriage. Today, in the USA and countries where women have equal rights, a woman has the legal right to refuse sex to her husband. 

Your mother and your relative are wrong. Perhaps you can teach them what the law says about this. They are giving you HORRIBLE advice.

When he did this.. did he hurt you, pin you down? Did he threaten you?



ariel_angel77 said:


> Also my family member doesn't think he is gay,


So what are her thoughts about a man who has sex with men? Does she think it’s ok for your husband to meet men on craigslist for sex and to have them in your home while your baby is there? 




ariel_angel77 said:


> and as far as the cheating, she said me seeing someone shortly after separating is equal to all that he did and therefore I should forgive him.


You really need to stop talking to this family member. She’s not dealing with a full deck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> This is very true, and my problem. He told me he did the Craigslist thing because he read my diary and found me talking about seeing someone else. (Yes, I did tell him on my own before I knew about the snooping.) So my mind tells me, he did the Craigslist thing because of what you did, so that one is your fault.


Let me get this straight. Your husband told you that he went on craigslist to find men to have sex with because he did not like what he read in your diary? Men don’t just suddenly decide to have sex with other men because their wife writes in her diary about seeing someone else. He has probably been doing this all along. You only just caught him that time.
What about the woman he was seeing? Did that get forgotten?



ariel_angel77 said:


> And also my family member and the MC we went to telling us that our problems were small potatoes and there wasn't really any abuse present. The MC also told me that if I thought my problems with H seemed like enough to divorce over, I probably wouldn't make it as a MC (my aspired profession).


You need to find a new counselor. The counselor is out of line telling you something like that. They are there to help you form your own decisions, not to shame you into putting up with abuse and adultery.

What you are doing is to make you second guess yourself. Your mother and the relative are giving your horrid advice. You need to stop talking to them about the intimate things in your life. 

Unfortunately you picked a bad MC or you did not tell them what was going on clearly enough. The fact that the counselor tried to shame you into staying with your husband is very concerning. 

Maybe you need to write down a list of the things that you feel have been abusive, his cheating, etc. Could you do that and post it here? I think you need a list to keep you focused.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your mc is crappy. A good counselor will not pass judgement. They should be a neutral party, and help you gain insight and clarity. They should help you follow your thoughts to their logical conclusions.

Your family has major issues and there is nothing you can do to change their world view. They are not offering advice, but trying to control you. Anyone offering suggestions that is detrimental to your well-being should be discarded. Don't let their definition of what a marriage should be define what you want your marriage to be. They do not have your best interest at heart, more like they want to maintain a certain perception to the people around them.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

You were given some very poor advise by the family member. Your husband (ex) sounds pretty mixed up. Soliciting sex to men and you would actually think of going back to him? He might be bisexual but it doesn't sound like he is the committed type. He might be being very sweet right now but it is just a matter of time before the same things you ran away from come back into his personality.

I went back to my ex. He was a liar and could not keep a job. Little did I know at the time that I went back was that he had been unfaithful from the beginning of our marriage. He too begged me back and it was my grandmother who wanted me to reconsider for the sake of our child. I out it on myself to give it my all, 100%. It was worse when I went back. Cheating, not wanting to work or help out with the house or the kids, lies, very selfish.

Save yourself and your child, get out and stay out.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Something feels "off" about this thread.. I can't put my finger on it. 

I love Ele's advice.. make a list of abusive behaviors that helps keep you focused. I had to do that when breaking free from my Mom. It works when gaslighting and emotional blackmail has been so chronic that you struggle having your own thoughts.

The diary thing was him blameshifting to you.

The counselor is saying, albeit poorly, that you will need lots of growth before you would be successful in marriage counseling. Given your circumstances and your struggles to break free of this relationship I would agree.

Is there anyone in your family who knows the whole story who is telling you to divorce?


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## Bruticus (Dec 18, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I never really talk about it. But when I do, the emotions start flowing, and I almost can't handle it. To recap for those who don't know my story:
> 
> -He was emotionally abusive. Put me down, insulted me, did things he knew would hurt me, did not care a lick about my feelings, threatened to leave to make me cry, treated me god awfully, broke me down and tore me apart.
> -I left after eight months of this.
> ...


This guy is wasting your time while you could be out searching for someone who might really love you. There is nothing special about this guy and his kind are a dime a dozen, why you're even struggling with the possibility of staying with him I have no idea, there's no way it's going to last. Breaking free should be easy, but even if it's not, do it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Yes, her and my mom both told me that it's automatically part of marriage. I had to go to my Sociology professor to talk to hear that it was sexual assault. Also my family member doesn't think he is gay, and as far as the cheating, *she said me seeing someone shortly after separating is equal to all that he did and therefore I should forgive him.*
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


While I do think that it was a mistake for you to jump into seeing someone else so quickly, I don't agree w/ this at all, and I'd think that the overwhelming majority of RATIONAL people wouldn't either.

Now... if you'd started seeing someone else BEFORE you separated? Eh... _maybe_.

But still... there's something about his decision to engage in sex w/ random scumbags from CL -- and in your apartment w/ your daughter nearby, no less -- that adds a certain "OMG what a f*cking creep" factor to everything that your (hopefully, soon-to-be-ex) husband has done.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> This is very true, and my problem. He told me he did the Craigslist thing because he read my diary and found me talking about seeing someone else. (Yes, I did tell him on my own before I knew about the snooping.) So my mind tells me, he did the Craigslist thing because of what you did, so that one is your fault. And also my family member and the MC we went to telling us that our problems were small potatoes and there wasn't really any abuse present. The MC also told me that if I thought my problems with H seemed like enough to divorce over, I probably wouldn't make it as a MC (my aspired profession).


/sigh

He's just making excuses, Ariel.

And your MC is a f*cking moron.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> /sigh
> 
> He's just making excuses, Ariel.
> 
> And your MC is a f*cking moron.


Your MC is obviously suffering from cranial rectal inversion and it appears that your relative is also.

You need to start thinking for yourself.


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

If you stay with him, you have a life full of misery ahead of you because he has some very disturbing qualities that will re-surface. His interest in men is also something that will not go away, he will seek it out and find it eventually. You asked for advice and you are getting unaminous feedback...that is pretty unusual around here...Divorce him. 20 years married and divorced and thank God I did!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

And you cannot stay with him the way he is.. you *MUST* stay different or leave otherwise you are putting your daughter at high risk for sexual abuse. 

Your husband is not fit to be a husband or a father right now. Why.... because he is a sexual addict who is putting his family at risk to feed his addiction, therefore a requirement of reconciliation would be professional treatment for his addiction and until he DRASTICALLY improves and PROVES he is self managing to the degree that he no longer chooses to put his family or himself at risk to his addiction ONLY then would I live in the same house. So he CANNOT remain in his currect condition and expect ANY reconciliation and you should accept no less.

Personally, I don't know if I could reconcile with a sex addict like this, but you will have to have balls bigger than his to keep him on the straight and narrow through a sexual addiction recovery and I don't think you have them to be honest. Thus, since the marital bonds have already been broken by infidelity I would take the opportunity to leave WITH court orders for restricted and supervised visitation for your daughter. STOP taking your daughter to him! You make him come to you where you can supervise for now until you can file in January. Your situation is not for the faint of heart nor is it for someone who doesn't understand full well what they are facing. Your family is not understanding his addiction, the danger you and your daughter are in, nor the steps needed to protect you and your daughter from the abuse of it. I would refrain my talking to anyone outside of a professional counselor that specializes in sexual addiction. I don't know why your present counselor isn't picking up on the sexual addiction in him.

In the mean time you have GOT to get your head clear and keep it clear to deal with this. NO, enabling sin is NOT part of making long term marriages work. Get serious about protecting your daughter or you are going to have life changing regrets on your hands. Do not leave her in this current situation with her Dad or you will become complicit in his abuse of her.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> When he did this.. did he hurt you, pin you down? Did he threaten you? *No. He would never be that bold. I woke up to him sexually assaulting me. He stopped when he realized I was awake and went in the other room to masturbate. I was too afraid to confront him. When I finally did the next day over text, his response was "I'm sorry, I'll never talk to you again, I'm a monster" etc. and I felt bad so I kept talking to him.*
> 
> 
> So what are her thoughts about a man who has sex with men? Does she think it’s ok for your husband to meet men on craigslist for sex and to have them in your home while your baby is there? *Apparently. She thinks all things can be worked through in marriage if both people are willing to work at it. Actually, she sees him more highly because he is more willing to work it out than I am.*
> .


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Elegirl, I wrote this to a family member before I left H to fully explain everything. You guys don't have to read this whole thing but Elegirl asked for a full list and here it is.

1. He lied about who he was from the beginning. He made me to believe he was a dedicated Christian who went to church frequently, did not want to miss a church service, always praying, always reading the bible, and always wanting to talk about God. He even got anointed every service. He portrayed himself as a very happy person who was always in a good mood & is uplifted. He also portrayed himself as a very sweet person who would forgive me no matter what I did. He was a person who smoked, cussed, and drank when he had made it clear that his values & morals were the same as mine before we married and that he did not have a desire for any of the previous listed. After we married, I found out that he was not really a Christian and that he did all of those things. He got to where he refused to even talk about God. He was a very negative person who was in a bad mood a lot of the time. He held grudges & was slow to forgive. He acted completely different from how he was when we dated. Who he revealed himself to be when we married was not just a case of showing the best before and the worst after we married, but rather a case of concocting a completely different personality to reel me in, only to show me his real personality after he married. He revealed to me in words the other night that he pretended to be a Christian and have the traits/values/morals I desire so that I would marry him and that he could not keep up the act anymore; that he is in fact not a Christian.

2. He had several mental disorders that he did not inform me of before we married; in fact, he completely masked them. The first one I saw that he had was a multi-personality named Mikey. The multi-personality first surfaced two weeks after the marriage began. This personality had its own history, background, dialect, movements, stance, personality, and attitude. I was made to believe that this person existed. Mikey lasted for the first year of the marriage before he was never brought up again. I was told explicitly not to inform anyone of the other personality. He also had depression. He told me he was very close to committing suicide at two points of the marriage. He was referred to a mental rehabilitation center where he was diagnosed with depression and prescribed anti-depressants. He stopped taking his medicine, citing “it made him feel false emotions” and refused to ever take them again. The part about all of this that bothers me so much is not the fact that it is there, but rather the fact that he refused to take the necessary steps to get better.

3. Beginning in month thirteen of the marriage, emotional abuse began. For the next seven months, there was emotional abuse that began far and few between and advanced to more frequent. The abuse included: Giving me commands including a bed time and taking my phone away, threatening to leave to hurt me deeply, saying things for the purpose of hurting me deeply, insulting my physical appearance, putting me down and belittling me, making me feel crazy and like I didn’t see the things that I saw, making me feel insignificant, forcing me to forgive him or else he would leave, using bible verses to put himself above me, disallowing me to become angry with him or else he would leave, emotionally blackmailing me, and using deeply emotionally harmful tactics to manipulate me into doing/feeling/believing what he wanted me to. I had intense desire of suicide after each episode of abuse when I had never had any thought of suicide previous to the marriage. He agreed to go to marriage counseling for help. The counseling helped temporarily, but he has begun slowly returning to abusive behavior. I do not believe the abusive behavior can be permanently reversed.

4. He is a compulsive liar who does not desire to stop lying. He has lied to me on several occasions, and after I found out a lie, he tried to convince me that I did not see what I really saw or that it just isn’t true and would try to make me feel crazy for thinking he lied. He would continue with the lie until I completely caught him red-handed. He has never confessed to a lie. He told me on one occasion that he does not see lying as a problem in any way and that he fully intends to continue lying for the rest of his life. He told me that I am the only person he doesn’t lie to, which I believe is a lie in itself.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Something feels "off" about this thread.. I can't put my finger on it.
> 
> I love Ele's advice.. make a list of abusive behaviors that helps keep you focused. I had to do that when breaking free from my Mom. It works when gaslighting and emotional blackmail has been so chronic that you struggle having your own thoughts.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what feels off or how I can help with that. And yes, my grandfather and uncle know the whole story and don't want me to be with H. My grandfather is the most involved family member in my life. He calls me every day and shows a lot of concern towards me more than anyone else, and he hates the idea of me going back to H. A few family members are indifferent to what I decide. Mom and the family member that I've been talking about want me to get back with him. As far as my inlaws, half of them want us to reconcile, and half of them think HE is too good for ME!


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Thank you everyone for the advice. This has been exactly what I need to stay away.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I think you have issues leaving is because of your belief system. Judging from your family, you were raised that marriage had to be a certain way. You may have conflict with what you know and what you know is right. I think you have to retrain your brain to think differently. You have to tell yourself and believe that you should leave the marriage, and a marriage should end if abuse is involved. Usually conflict arise in our self when an idea, and our belief clash. Either our belief is wrong, or this new idea is wrong.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I'm not sure what feels off or how I can help with that. And yes, my grandfather and uncle know the whole story and don't want me to be with H. My grandfather is the most involved family member in my life. He calls me every day and shows a lot of concern towards me more than anyone else, and he hates the idea of me going back to H. A few family members are indifferent to what I decide. Mom and the family member that I've been talking about want me to get back with him. As far as my inlaws, half of them want us to reconcile, and half of them think HE is too good for ME!


Stick with your grandfather Baby Girl. He will not steer you wrong on this one. Refer the rest of the family to him if you havd to. I sorry to say it but you havd ended up with a guy who has Dissociative Identity Disorder, probably stemming from childhood sexual abuse by another male given his searching out men on CL. D.I.D. people can totally compartmentalize complete personas or personalities that are coping mechanisms. It is why you only saw this one or that one. DID persons struggle with depression, suicide, addiction and many times are abusers. This guys issues are WAY out of your league and are psychiatric level of care for him. I believe this is the end of the road for this relationship. You could not have known this about him. Forgive yourself, let your grandpa come along side you and help you make the right moves. I think now I know what has felt off for me. I knew a guy like this and had a bad feeling about this thread. Just couldnt put my finger on it. Thanks for the additional info and I am so sorry...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> No. He would never be that bold. I woke up to him sexually assaulting me. He stopped when he realized I was awake and went in the other room to masturbate. I was too afraid to confront him. When I finally did the next day over text, his response was "I'm sorry, I'll never talk to you again, I'm a monster" etc. and I felt bad so I kept talking to him.


You are your own worst enemy here. He puts on a good show and you buy it hook line and sinker. You need to avoid talking to people like your mom and that relative. They have no boundaries to protect themselves. You have little to no boundaries to protect yourself. You get sucked into his little games way too easily. So to avoid them you probably need to avoid talking to him as much as possible.



ariel_angel77 said:


> Apparently. She thinks all things can be worked through in marriage if both people are willing to work at it. Actually, she sees him more highly because he is more willing to work it out than I am.


She is apparently a person who thinks that marriage must be saved at all costs. That’s not a healthy attitude at all.

Did you point out to her the risky nature of him using Craigslist to pick up men for sex? The change of your husband contracting STDs, to include AIDs is HUGE.

She is also missing that guy’s don’t suddenly have the bright idea to have quick pick-up sex with strange men because their separated wife saw another man. Your husband has most likely being having sex with men on the side for a long time.

She also seems to not care about the danger your H has put you and your daughter in by him bringing these men he meets for stranger pick-up sex to your home. Guys who do this are very often dangerous people.

She is also naïve if she thinks your husband would actually work anything out with you. From all you have said, he will say anything to get you back. Saying things is not the same as doing. He is a lying, cheating, abuser. These are traits that do not change easily… they take years of work. He is most likely still picking up guys on Craigslist. Men who do this sort of thing also go to public restrooms, parks, etc. that are known as pickup spots.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Stick with your grandfather Baby Girl. He will not steer you wrong on this one. Refer the rest of the family to him if you havd to. I sorry to say it but you havd ended up with a guy who has Dissociative Identity Disorder, probably stemming from childhood sexual abuse by another male given his searching out men on CL. D.I.D. people can totally compartmentalize complete personas or personalities that are coping mechanisms. It is why you only saw this one or that one. DID persons struggle with depression, suicide, addiction and many times are abusers. This guys issues are WAY out of your league and are psychiatric level of care for him. I believe this is the end of the road for this relationship. You could not have known this about him. Forgive yourself, let your grandpa come along side you and help you make the right moves. I think now I know what has felt off for me. I knew a guy like this and had a bad feeling about this thread. Just couldnt put my finger on it. Thanks for the additional info and I am so sorry...


Thanks for letting me know about the mental disorder. I'll look into it further. And you're not the only one, several of my friends and family have told me before that he seems "off". Even friends I'm not close with who met him. My uncle used to say he had a strange feeling that H would kill us all in our sleep when we had family get togethers like Thanksgiving and Christmas. I guess I never wanted to believe all the comments before. No one actually wants to believe that they married a person like this.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I know Honey, but they do exist. 

I have a cousin in law right now who is discovering his own DID from childhood sexual abuse and he is severely struggling. So he makes the second person I've known personally. My cousin in law is a sweet guy, but the other one I know is deadly. Both of them are deep in substance abuse and the one was into deviant sexual behaviors.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

I'm sorry but I don't understand why this is 'so hard' for you. 
You know he is a wolf. You have seen him in this form, yet when he puts on sheeps clothing you see the sheep?
You have to be smarter than this, surely?
Yes, PLEASE find another therapist ASAP the one you are seeing is a charlatan who will never give you the help you need.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You know... I've wanted to say this for a while, but didn't want to have it misconstrued by anyone, so I've been hesitant to do so. But now I'm just going to come out w/ it (because Ariel just may need to "hear" it), and I think it's best said in the open forum...

Ariel, I just don't get where this resounding lack of confidence and self-respect is coming from. I recall seeing a picture that you'd posted of yourself in Social a while back, and you're a strikingly lovely young woman. You can do sooooo much better than some irrevocably broken d*ckhole that disrespects you at every turn. Kick this f*cking scrub out of your life and don't look back.

And OK... sure... you don't want to admit that you let a POS snake like your husband into your life. But you did, and you can't change that now. But you can take a stand today and refuse to let him victimize you -- or worse, your daughter! -- anymore. He sold you a bill of goods and you bought it -- hook, line, and sinker. Learn from it! Grow from it!

And don't settle for some f*cking d**chebag that throws lines like "I'm gonna need some nudes ASAP" at you. You're worth more than that, and so is your daughter. Resolve to fix your broken "picker"!

Finishing your degree is going to take a lot of hard work, long hours, and sacrifice, so please Please PLEASE don't waste all of that on a relationship that isn't worth even half an hour in your least favorite class.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What Gus said. 

And then go back and reread your list of issues you've had with him. And ask yourself how many of them can you comfortably say have been addressed. Him being "nice" to you now is pretty meaningless by comparison. 

C


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Every item on your list--the lying, the deception, the mental illness, the bi- and ****-sexuality which he hid from you...I believe any one of those would probably allow fora Church annulment of your marriage. Annulments can be granted from the State on the basis of "fraud" -- and he definitely defrauded you. In my estimation, none of his vows even count because he was lying through his teeth while standing on the altar before God.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I doubt she can get an annulment from the state. The criteria just does not fit. That's not insanity. He might be insane, but depression is not insanity. And no one has declared him insane. It's almost impossible to get that kind of a diagnosis the way todays mental health community handles things.


Getting an annulment will do little to nothing for ariel_angel77. She and her husband have no assets or income. So that part of the divorce is simple... all they need is few paragraphs... 

1) We have no assets, so assets are not addressed herein.
2) Personal property has already been split and each shall retail that property in their possession
3) We have no community debt, so community debt is not addressed herein.
4) We each retain and are responsible for any student loans in our name.

That's about it. Basically there are no assets , debt, income or spousal support to fight over.

The big thing in their divorce will be child custody, visitation and child support. This will need to be addressed whether there is an annulment or a divorce. It was be just as easy, or just as nasty, either way.

Angel has a very real problem because it's very questionable if her husband should get any unsupervised time with their daughter. But he most likely will. He could get as much as 50%. This is where Angel needs to be putting her efforts.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77,

I think that you are having a hard time separating yourself from him and a hard time with feeling like you love him because there is something you do not understand.

You do not love your husband (who he really his). What you love is who you thought him to be. You love your dream guy. That love does not belong to your husband, it never did. It belongs to you. You have the power to own your love and to reserve it for a man who is worthy of that love. So take your love back and protect it for some great guy you will meet in the future once you have finished with your divorce and healed.

There is something you can do to keep you from getting sucked into your husband's emotional manipulation. Take some time to visualize him when he was the most abusive and hurtful to you. When he had the other personality living in him. Feel the hurt, confusion and fear you felt at those times. From then on, when you see him and/or think about him, have the image of him at his worst in your head. Think of him as too dangerous to be near (because he is).

When he's around or you think of him you have to have your back up and be in the freight and flight mode.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you everyone for the advice. This has been exactly what I need to stay away.


Good for you! And here's some more ammunition for you, direct from the Bible. You may want to show your relatives these (_if_ you insist on still talking to them).



> 1 Corinthians 5:13: Expel the wicked man from among you ...





> 1 Timothy 5:20NIV: Those who sin *are to be rebuked publicly* [i.e. outed to others], so that the others may take warning ...





> 2 Corinthians 6:14-15, 17-18: Do not be yoked with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? *[i.e. you, a faithful, loving wife with an unfaithful, abusive loser?]* Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? ... 'Therefore come out from them and be separate,' says the Lord. ...





> Titus 3:10-11: Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. *After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned* ....


And here's the final one:



> Proverbs 17:15: *Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent - the Lord detests them both.*


Stay strong, lady. You CAN do this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

foolscotton3 said:


> Take your daughter and flee Sodom before Gods Wrath falls onto that home.


And don't look back.. you might turn into a pillar of salt.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I'm not sure what feels off or how I can help with that. And yes, my grandfather and uncle know the whole story and don't want me to be with H. My grandfather is the most involved family member in my life. He calls me every day and shows a lot of concern towards me more than anyone else, and he hates the idea of me going back to H. A few family members are indifferent to what I decide. Mom and the family member that I've been talking about want me to get back with him. As far as my inlaws, half of them want us to reconcile, and half of them think HE is too good for ME!


Try to make some sense of this. Your grandfather and an uncle (both men who know men behavior well) are advising you not to go back. The women (who might feel that men are men and accept male sexuality but might not completely understand) are telling you to go back. Does your mom know that he was soliciting other men for sex on Craig's List?


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

When you feel guilty and think you should stay and save this marriage, remember this:

If nothing changes, in 15 years you will be a broken woman, lacking the will or strength to stand up to him. And your daughter will be a pretty teenage girl, living with a sex addict and the strange men he brings home. 

You and your daughter are more important than the opinions of your family. Leave, and never look back. There is something better out there for you, and it's waiting on the other side of your fear and guilt.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Getting an annulment will do little to nothing for ariel_angel77.


ariel angel has strong reservations about breaking her vows in the eyes of God and her church. She has expressed this many times in her other threads. 

I'm not sure church/denomination she practices, but a sit-down with her pastor (and possible annulment by her church) would go a long way to easing her mind and absolving her of the guilt she feels.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

This is why church help has gotten so dicey over the years, because people dont understand church discipline and why it is desperately important. I believe it is making a come back after situations like these, but we have a long way to go. So I agree HAC and am grateful for our church who is very active in church discipline in a very direct healthy biblical way. Ariel. . I don't know how close you are to my town but you are welcome to come sit with me in church anytime.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I think that it was rather presumptuous of you to point out that "people" don't understand church doctrine.

I think "people" in general and Ariel specifically know the doctrines well. It is this internal struggle over what takes more precedence that she has to deal with.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I didnt say doctrine... I said discipline.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> ariel angel has strong reservations about breaking her vows in the eyes of God and her church. She has expressed this many times in her other threads.
> 
> I'm not sure church/denomination she practices, but a sit-down with her pastor (and possible annulment by her church) would go a long way to easing her mind and absolving her of the guilt she feels.


I believe I clearly stated that I was talking about an annulment give by the state vs a divorce.

A lot of churches will give an annulment by the church. It has no standing legally. But for religious people that can be important.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I didnt say doctrine... I said discipline.


And I said you were being presumptuous.

Does that make us even?


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Kylie84 said:


> I'm sorry but I don't understand why this is 'so hard' for you.
> You know he is a wolf. You have seen him in this form, yet when he puts on sheeps clothing you see the sheep?
> You have to be smarter than this, surely?
> Yes, PLEASE find another therapist ASAP the one you are seeing is a charlatan who will never give you the help you need.


I'm a really naïve person and I like to see the best in people. I just also know that when I divorce him he's going to end up becoming a full-fledged Christian and an amazing person and then marry a Barbie who my daughter loves. While I never find anyone again.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> You know... I've wanted to say this for a while, but didn't want to have it misconstrued by anyone, so I've been hesitant to do so. But now I'm just going to come out w/ it (because Ariel just may need to "hear" it), and I think it's best said in the open forum...
> 
> Ariel, I just don't get where this resounding lack of confidence and self-respect is coming from. I recall seeing a picture that you'd posted of yourself in Social a while back, and you're a strikingly lovely young woman. You can do sooooo much better than some irrevocably broken d*ckhole that disrespects you at every turn. Kick this f*cking scrub out of your life and don't look back.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I find myself very unattractive. The picture looked good because it didn't show my body, which carries a lot of my baby weight. I feel that I'm so unattractive that I'm surprised that H and the guy I saw found me appealing and sexy. In fact, I convinced myself that the guy I was dating didn't want to have sex with me that much because he thinks I weigh too much or I'm not pretty enough or good enough. Basically, my self esteem is so low right now that I don't see how any guy could find me the least bit attractive, at least not enough to get it up.

Yes, I know this is a really bad time in my life...


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

foolscotton3 said:


> Ariel, do you have a safe childcare, other than your family that you can take your daughter to when your not available to be with her?
> 
> If he can't get at you to hurt you, he will use your daughter to hurt you.


My family watches her a lot, but I let him keep her every weekend because he's her father and I don't really have a choice at the moment. And to address your other comments, I am living with my mom right now and haven't lived with him for about 2 months.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

foolscotton3 said:


> Good for him, maybe you divorcing him will wake him up, and he will become a better man, and his new wife will keep him inline.
> 
> If what you say is true, he does not love you. You deserve somebody who does. When you find that one who does, the last thing on your mind is going to be your ex husbands new life. Your going to be to overwhelmed with how much safer your new life is. He won't even cross your mind.
> Don't let his moving on prevent you from moving on. Your daughter needs stability, she needs you to be her rock.


It's just the last two years have been hell, like literally the most miserable thing I ever would have imagined for myself, and I have a very dim view of my future. I'm afraid I'll always be this miserable.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Honestly, I find myself very unattractive. The picture looked good because it didn't show my body, which carries a lot of my baby weight. I feel that I'm so unattractive that I'm surprised that H and the guy I saw found me appealing and sexy. In fact, I convinced myself that the guy I was dating didn't want to have sex with me that much because he thinks I weigh too much or I'm not pretty enough or good enough. Basically, my self esteem is so low right now that I don't see how any guy could find me the least bit attractive, at least not enough to get it up.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know this is a really bad time in my life...



Are you in counseling to work on yourself? As a student, you are able to get free counseling at your university/college. 

Are you working out? Exercises such as yoga can help you feel better.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

spinsterdurga said:


> Are you in counseling to work on yourself? As a student, you are able to get free counseling at your university/college.
> 
> Are you working out? Exercises such as yoga can help you feel better.


I just moved away from my college. Not sure if I should travel up there once a week for an appointment. I can't afford a co-pay with my insurance anywhere else. And I've had a hard time finding time to exercise with a toddler. I was going good for a while and dropped from 190 (post-baby) to 165. Now that I've settled into my mom's, I'd like to get back into the routine.


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## Mr Right (Oct 5, 2013)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I never really talk about it. But when I do, the emotions start flowing, and I almost can't handle it. To recap for those who don't know my story:
> 
> -He was emotionally abusive. Put me down, insulted me, did things he knew would hurt me, did not care a lick about my feelings, threatened to leave to make me cry, treated me god awfully, broke me down and tore me apart.
> -I left after eight months of this.
> ...


Yes, I also believe in marriage most things can be worked out, BUT IMO, any kind of Abuse is a total deal breaker.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I'm a really naïve person and I like to see the best in people. I just also know that when I divorce him he's going to end up becoming a full-fledged Christian and an amazing person and then marry a Barbie who my daughter loves. While I never find anyone again.


He never was, and can never be, an 'amazing person'. Just because one 'finds God' again (or at all) does not make for an amazing person. Being good, treating people with love and respect- THAT is being an amazing person.
Nothing can erase the past and what he has done to you and your daughter. Never lose sight of that


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

I know right now it is almost impossible to see, but you WILL feel better eventually. I can't tell you how long that will take but if you persevere with staying active, seeing friends, and just focusing on seeing a better therapist both you and your daughter will benefit. 
The confusion, the dark cloud that swamps your head will eventually clear and you will see this situation for what it is- one that you were lucky to escape.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I deleted some posts that were off-topic/threadjacking. Please feel free to take any such side discussions to private messaging. Thanks.


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## ticktock33 (Jun 6, 2014)

Divorce is the best way to go, he just can't be trusted and don't let him try sweet talking you. Take the time to recover and get some counseling as well. You deserve better!


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> It's just the last two years have been hell, like literally the most miserable thing I ever would have imagined for myself, and I have a very dim view of my future. I'm afraid I'll always be this miserable.



You can't judge the rest of your life over the last two years, and how you are feeling now. If you start doing things that improve your life, your outlook will look different. Your being a prisoner of the moment. If you finish school, find a great job, and learn to be a happy, independent you, your life will turn around. At this moment of your life, things are not how you want them is all. Your life will fluctuate and this is just a down period.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> ^^^^^ What I boldfaced above???
> 
> That is the attitude towards yourself that will draw controlling, abusive woman-haters to you like a magnet.
> 
> ...


girl, you are so sweet. thanks for that. I am not able to have a membership but I live out in the country where I can just go for a walk down my road, lol. thanks for the advice.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> I just moved away from my college. Not sure if I should travel up there once a week for an appointment. I can't afford a co-pay with my insurance anywhere else. And I've had a hard time finding time to exercise with a toddler. I was going good for a while and dropped from 190 (post-baby) to 165. Now that I've settled into my mom's, I'd like to get back into the routine.


If your stbx has your child every weekend... start by exercising every weekend.

Also, go on walks with your daughter when you have her. It's a great way to teach her to be active and you get your exercise in.

Also, get an exercise video, or find one on services like Netflix. Work out to it had have her join you. You'd be surprised how much she would consider doing aerobics to music to be fun.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Honestly, I find myself very unattractive. The picture looked good because it didn't show my body, which carries a lot of my baby weight. I feel that I'm so unattractive that I'm surprised that H and the guy I saw found me appealing and sexy. In fact, I convinced myself that the guy I was dating didn't want to have sex with me that much because he thinks I weigh too much or I'm not pretty enough or good enough. Basically, my self esteem is so low right now that I don't see how any guy could find me the least bit attractive, at least not enough to get it up.
> 
> Yes, I know this is a really bad time in my life...


Ariel, I'll let you in on a little secret...

A pretty woman is a pretty woman. Period.

And besides, weight will come and go as you get older, have kids, etc. And if you're not happy w/ your outward appearance, the good news is that you're in your early 20's, and not your late 30's, 40's, 50's, etc. In other words, now is the perfect time for you to start making changes to your diet, daily activity levels, etc to get whatever results you're looking for.

Aside from that, don't go overboard w/ obsessing over your weight, and don't settle for someone to whom that is all important. Find someone that will love and appreciate you for the content of your character, the strength of your convictions, and your kind, gentle soul. Honestly, it should be pretty easy for you.

Having said that, if you take anything from your past experience, let it be this...

_Be picki*er*_.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Sweetie, you are so very young - you need to stay out of ANY relationships for a while and learn to make yourself happy.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

So, let me tell you guys about last night. STBX has been pestering me about getting back together, calling me babe, saying he loves me. I have been kind of afraid to stand up for myself and say no. Afraid of what he might do.

Well, he was being cold and rude from the beginning. I said, "See, you see that it won't work out, don't you?" And he said "No, we could work it out if you would show that you care more." He then started lecturing me about how I need to step up my parenting because I'm not doing a good job. He also informed me that if he wasn't working, he would have her all the time. I shut that down quickly. But I asked him about his concerns with my parenting, the first thing he listed was when I didn't answer when he carried her to the doctor (I was watching a movie with my parents and called back right after). I asked for any more examples and he didn't have any. I said "I don't see your point as valid until you give examples." He said "No, we're just not going to talk about this because you're going to turn it around on me."

Then I said I want a divorce. He asked why. I said, "You will not get counseling for your mental issues or abusive behaviors. So I will not try to work it out." He went on a rant about how he didn't need counseling and he can fix it himself. I told him no, that's not acceptable enough for me to take him back and we wouldn't get back together while he still had those problems. He was like, "OH, yeah? Well, you slept with another man! Boom!" (referring to the guy I saw after the separation began) and left the room. Then came back to see my response. I shrugged and told him that I wouldn't let his words bother me then left. He's been pestering me all last night and today making sure I want a divorce. I keep telling him yes.

This is the right decision right?? Like from how he acted from all that.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

ariel_angel77 said:


> This is the right decision right?? Like from how he acted from all that.


Yes its the right decision, but NOT because of how he acted from all of that, but because he is an ABUSER and a sexual predator. He is a disgusting human being. I cannot believe you feel the need to look for validation for this. Its cut and dried.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Why are you in each others' presence enough for him to pester you at all?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> So, let me tell you guys about last night. STBX has been pestering me about getting back together, calling me babe, saying he loves me. I have been kind of afraid to stand up for myself and say no. Afraid of what he might do.
> 
> Well, he was being cold and rude from the beginning. I said, "See, you see that it won't work out, don't you?" And he said "No, we could work it out if you would show that you care more." He then started lecturing me about how I need to step up my parenting because I'm not doing a good job. He also informed me that if he wasn't working, he would have her all the time. I shut that down quickly. But I asked him about his concerns with my parenting, the first thing he listed was when I didn't answer when he carried her to the doctor (I was watching a movie with my parents and called back right after). I asked for any more examples and he didn't have any. I said "I don't see your point as valid until you give examples." *He said "No, we're just not going to talk about this because you're going to turn it around on me."*


In other words...

"No, I don't want to talk about it anymore, because the more nonsensical bullsh*t that I spout, the more I have to listen as you methodically apply logic and reason to call me out on all of it."



ariel_angel77 said:


> Then I said I want a divorce. He asked why. I said, "You will not get counseling for your mental issues or abusive behaviors. So I will not try to work it out." He went on a rant about how he didn't need counseling and he can fix it himself. I told him no, that's not acceptable enough for me to take him back and we wouldn't get back together while he still had those problems. He was like, "OH, yeah? Well, you slept with another man! Boom!" (referring to the guy I saw after the separation began) and left the room. Then came back to see my response. I shrugged and told him that I wouldn't let his words bother me then left. He's been pestering me all last night and today making sure I want a divorce. I keep telling him yes.
> 
> This is the right decision right?? Like from how he acted from all that.


If you're asking about the decision to divorce then yes, I believe that most here would agree on that being the correct decision. And actually, you should -- IMO -- divorce whether or not he seeks counseling.

As for a response to his accusations, you could've gone w/ something like this...

"I slept w/ ONE guy while we were separated. You've slept w/ God only knows how many people -- including other guys!!! -- since we've been married! Go get yourself a boyfriend and leave me the f*ck alone... I don't want to be your 'beard' anymore."

And don't worry, he'll throw that in your face again before it's all over... so you'll still be able to whip ^this^ out on him.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Just imagine that for the next fifty years and realize that your doing the right thing. Like an abuser, it is all about him and what he wants. He will go through threats, and sweet talking to try and lure you back, you simply ignore it all. Just let all his attempts go to voice mail or text. Respond that way, and if he makes threats, you will have evidence. Plus if he looks unstable, you can get sole custody.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> He's been pestering me all last night and today making sure I want a divorce. I keep telling him yes.


Why were you alone with him? If he truly is abusive, you are putting yourself in harms way by being alone with him.

Why did you answer when he called all those time? Do not answer his phone calls. Tell him to send you a txt it it's aobut yoru child. Otherwise you don't want him to call or text you. Do not call him, send him a text about this.

"Husband, I am going to file for divorce. Please do not phone me. I will not answer and talk to you. Only use text and email to communicate with me. And only use text with it's a topic related to our daughter."

Send him that. If he calls you, do not answer, turn of the ringer if you need to. You only text him back and only when it's related to your daughter.

If you have to be near him in person, try to take someone else with you.

If he txts you emotional rants, just ignore them. DO NOT RESPOND.

You are giving him mixed messages by talking to him in person and on the phone.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Ariel I've followed a lot of your threads over the past year. He's a loser. Not worth your energy.

Also not worth putting your daughter's well being in jeopardy. He needs to grow up.

There are millions of great guys out there. Whenever the time may be right, you will find one.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Talk about going back to the 1950s. I feel like we are in the 33AD at the crucifixion. And before you rile yourself in anger reading this, please allow an open mind and read to the end, then explode in rage towards me.

Blossom said back a few pages that something is off here and I feel exactly the same. Everyone on here is ready to string this guy up by his manparts based solely on the few posts from OP. There is a mother and a licensed MC who are concluding that what we all read herein is insufficient grounds to break up a marriage. That means that either the mother and the MC are so grossly negligent in their respective roles so as to be completely incompetent....or there is more here that we are not getting.

For instance, sexual abuse could be the H laying his hand on her breast or crotch and gauging the reaction. All here say full on rape. How do you conclude that? We also know nothing of her disposition and how she reacts in these "fights". She may have an explosive temper and H is responding in kind. I am just saying that there may be more here than meets our eyes.

Her uncle and grandfather are ready to see this guy gone. From the perspective of a grandfather, I can tell you no one is good enough for my baby girl and anyone who even hinted at making her unhappy would be on my list. Slightly biased. The rest of her family is either indifferent or says R. Do her own family members care so little about her so as to suggest she stay with this monster?

And that's another point, this guy, as described, is a monster of the highest caliber. I am talking about movie style monster like from a Stephen King movie. No redeeming characteristics, multiple personalities, violent to the point of psychotic, a rapist, a cheater, gay, smokes, drinks, swears and the list goes on. Yet during a trial separation she finds another guy to have sex with because she's been so mistreated and abused?

I am sorry but I do not buy this little Mary sunshine bit. I am not saying that he is by any means an angel, he may have significant issues that need to be addressed. What I am saying is that so may she. Yet we are so quick to advise her to leave and "trade up" as she is a beautiful girl and can do so much better. To quote Forrest Gump, "pretty is as pretty does".

All I am saying is for us to consider that we may be being coerced by a sweet, innocent...manipulator. She may want absolution for leaving this man and we are giving her not only absolution but encouragement. I would suggest that they need an impartial arbitrator to bring some balance to this story, like an MC. No wait, been there done that, didn't get the right recommendation so she came here.

I acknowledge that this situation could be exactly as described and I could be dead wrong but if I am I am not alone in that her entire family, save one uncle and a grandpa, half of his family and a licensed MC are in this boat also. The other half of his family thinks he's too good for her. Do the math, something doesn't add up.

OP, if you have portrayed an accurate picture of your situation then no one should need to tell you to D this monster and move on. However, if you've spun a bit of a yarn here in an effort to sway public opinion in favor of your true desire then you should reevaluate your stance. You do not need our permission to leave your H and move on. I know that you will find someone better by default, since Hitler, Attila the Hun and Genghis Kahn are dead, you've married the worst male on the planet. Best wishes to your family.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

ariel_angel77 said:


> He was like, "OH, yeah? Well, you slept with another man! Boom!" (referring to the guy I saw after the separation began) *and left the room. Then came back to see my response.* I shrugged and told him that I wouldn't let his words bother me then left.


This has already been brought up; but I think deserves emphasizing.

Why is he ever in the same room with you for any extended period of time?

Is he travelling to where your mother lives? How far away is your mother's place from his grandmother's (he lives with his grandmother now, correct?).

He should understand that he is *not* invited to spend time at your residence with you. 

I get that he may come to collect your daughter; but that should only take a couple of minutes.

If you keep spending extended amounts of time with him; you'll never get anywhere.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> Talk about going back to the 1950s. I feel like we are in the 33AD at the crucifixion. And before you rile yourself in anger reading this, please allow an open mind and read to the end, then explode in rage towards me.
> 
> Blossom said back a few pages that something is off here and I feel exactly the same. Everyone on here is ready to string this guy up by his manparts based solely on the few posts from OP. There is a mother and a licensed MC who are concluding that what we all read herein is insufficient grounds to break up a marriage. That means that either the mother and the MC are so grossly negligent in their respective roles so as to be completely incompetent....or there is more here that we are not getting.
> 
> ...


Nicely put.

Reading this entire thread made by eyes roll.

1. We only have the account of wife to assess this marital situation. We do not have input from the husband which can also be equally revealing. In short, _biased_ picture.
2. I see issues on both sides. Wife isn't an angel either since she also demonstrated lack of character during separation (e.g. extramarital relationship with another man). Even if the husband is abusive, his lack of character doesn't justifies the wife's lack of character.
3. Some people in this community are highly judgmental and quick to jump to conclusions. These include remarks about MC, mother and family relatives of the wife, and even outright labels of husband as a rapist without sufficient disclosure about each of these stakeholders.

Relationships aren't so black and white, people have differences in perceptions and expectations in a marriage. 

As an example, the notion that the wife have the legal right to refuse sex in marriage doesn't sits with "my" expectations in a marriage without valid reasons. The wife may refuse sex but a husband may find this acceptable only for valid reasons such as medical complications. Excuses like wife "is not in the mood" doesn't bode well for even healthy relationships.

Anyways;

@*ariel_angel77*

Based on your disclosures, I believe that you have lot to learn (growing-up factor) and same is true for your husband. I don't think that this marriage is going to work out well for both of you in the long-term since both of you have committed errors and your husband is demonstrating lack of willingness to seek therapy to address his issues/shortcomings such as his abusive tendencies. If separation and ultimatums are not working, it is time for you to quit. 

But don't commit yourself to another relationship very soon after this marriage ends. You need to work a lot on yourself since you have self-esteem related issues and a child to look after; I suggest IC (Individual Counseling), healthy dietary preferences, and exercise, as beneficial starters. However, don't try to damage your relationship with your mother and other female relatives who happen to have pro-marriage views, just remain more formal with them concerning your relationships if you find their views not compatible with yours. You need to learn to make more well-informed decisions concerning your well-being and choices in life for a relationship. 

You also need to focus on the well-being of your child, she needs stability and good parenting to become a productive individual in life. You may also need to do some homework about the 'potential' role of your STBX in life of your child, chances are that he may pursue visitation rights. In this case, you should insist on him to seek IC for himself at minimum to work out an arrangement.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NoChoice said:


> Talk about going back to the 1950s. I feel like we are in the 33AD at the crucifixion. And before you rile yourself in anger reading this, please allow an open mind and read to the end, then explode in rage towards me.
> 
> Blossom said back a few pages that something is off here and I feel exactly the same. Everyone on here is ready to string this guy up by his manparts based solely on the few posts from OP. There is a mother and a licensed MC who are concluding that what we all read herein is insufficient grounds to break up a marriage. That means that either the mother and the MC are so grossly negligent in their respective roles so as to be completely incompetent....or there is more here that we are not getting.
> 
> ...


Let's say that you are 100% right.

Do you really think that she should stay in a marriage with some poor guy if she is this far off her rocker, this manipulative, etc?

Would the guy she is making all this up about deserve to be married to such a nut case? Or is he better off without a wife who is going around lying about him like this?


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

I Disagree with both of you. All you really did was upset me and try to hinder any future advice I might get, which I really appreciate from those people btw. Intheory, he doesn't have a vehicle to meet me. I'll stop going back to his room though, good point.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Not Elegirl,but the two guys calling me a liar.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Not Elegirl,but the two guys calling me a liar.


Nobody is calling you a liar. You have judgmental problems, lady.

You need to learn to differentiate between "constructive criticism" and "accusations." As I pointed out, you need IC to address your self-esteem related and perceptional problems.

Everybody is advising you to end your marriage since it isn't working out well. Focus on the advice that I have given you, that should be your course-of-action after divorce. You are not ready for a relationship in your current state of mind and situation.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

Constructive criticism? You literally helped the other guy try to deflect any of the further helpful advice that I've been given. I do appreciate the last few paragraphs you wrote though.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Constructive criticism? You literally helped the other guy try to deflect any of the further helpful advice that I've been given. I do appreciate the last few paragraphs you wrote though.


It is not that I agree with him 100% but I noticed rationality in his views and therefore my "nicely put" remark.

Please understand that I or any other member doesn't harbor any ill against you or consider you a liar. It is just that you are in an emotional state of mind and some points that constitute as "constructive criticism" may offend you at this hour. Their is always 2 sides of a coin (story) in real life. Of-course, your husband have his part in ruining your marriage and he needs to own his mistakes like a man and consider IC as well.

Anyways, thanks for concentrating on my advice. It will serve you well in the long-run. Once you emerge as a strong and rational woman, your selection criteria for a partner in marriage will also improve. 

Right now, your priorities should be:-

1. IC and introspection
2. Studies and career
3. Exercise
4. Healthy dietary preferences 
5. Insistence on your STBX for IC (at minimum) if he wants to be in your child's life. 

Cheers.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Let's say that you are 100% right.
> 
> Do you really think that she should stay in a marriage with some poor guy if she is this far off her rocker, this manipulative, etc?
> 
> Would the guy she is making all this up about deserve to be married to such a nut case? Or is he better off without a wife who is going around lying about him like this?


If she is,as you say, this far off her rocker, then I feel she should have not been allowed to marry and if the H is as far off his rocker as she purports him to be, she should have never married him. Her claim is that he is an academy award winning actor who has fooled family members, trained counselors and the woman who love(s)(ed) him. All I am saying is that we are figuratively bashing this guys head in and all we have to go on is her accounting that is replete with incongruities. I have no problem with them splitting, my only point was with the way were are trashing her H to her and reinforcing what may be partial fiction or exaggeration on her part.




ariel_angel77 said:


> Constructive criticism? You literally helped the other guy try to deflect any of the further helpful advice that I've been given. I do appreciate the last few paragraphs you wrote though.


OP, if you've read through these boards you have no doubt seen that some posters are "liked" some are quoted and some are ignored based on the feelings and opinions of the other readers. My post expresses what I feel to be true and can fall into any one of those three categories. I can no more deflect other posters from expressing their opinion than I can change your opinion of me. Those here that disagree with me are not bashful and would not hesitate to express their contention with my points. The poster that did express some agreement with me actually offered you some good advice which you summarily disagreed with and accused him of calling you a liar and deflecting further good advice from others.

I assume the "good advice" you are referring to is the degradation of your evil H and the elevation of the poor innocent victim who cheated on him, regardless the reason. I do not believe your sweet totally innocent portrayal of yourself. I believe you have contributed your fair share to this debacle. If the advice you want is to leave your H then you have gotten that in spades so leave him. However, if you love him and want to work things out then roll up your sleeves and prepare for some hard work and a long road. Whatever you decide to do I wish you health and happiness.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> As an example, the notion that the wife have the legal right to refuse sex in marriage doesn't sits with "my" expectations in a marriage without valid reasons. The wife may refuse sex but a husband may find this acceptable only for valid reasons such as medical complications. Excuses like wife "is not in the mood" doesn't bode well for even healthy relationships.


Where you live and in your religion, it might be right that a woman does not have the right to refuse sex when she wants. But this does not apply here.

Here women and men have the right to decide when they will have sex. For example if a woman's husband mistreats her, she has the right to refuse sex. Each person can decide for themself what their own boundaries are.

The OP left her husband because he is abusive and because he was cheating with other women and with men. He had no right, legally and morally, to have sex with her without her consent.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NoChoice said:


> If she is,as you say, this far off her rocker, then I feel she should have not been allowed to marry and if the H is as far off his rocker as she purports him to be, she should have never married him.


Since she is not locked up in a mental institution, we can assume that she is not off her rocker. She has the legal right to marry whomever she choses.



NoChoice said:


> Her claim is that he is an academy award winning actor who has fooled family members, trained counselors and the woman who love(s)(ed) him. All I am saying is that we are figuratively bashing this guys head in and all we have to go on is her accounting that is replete with incongruities. I have no problem with them splitting, my only point was with the way were are trashing her H to her and reinforcing what may be partial fiction or exaggeration on her part.


I have an idea. Why don’t you go to all of the threads here on TAM where men are postings about how terrible their wives are, where its’ being discussed that she probably has PBD, or some other mental health issue, were the male TAM posters are calling the wives of male OP’s *****s, b!itches, svlts, cum buckets and other disgusting names. 

Why don’t you go to those threads and tell those men to stop taking the OP’s word as the truth. The stories that a lot of the men tell present their situation from one side a well. They are believed by other posters as telling the absolute truth. Their wives are attacked much more viciously that anything on this thread.

I suppose you think that those men are also off their rockers? Do you think that the men posting to those men are out of line taking the men’s stories as that absolute truth?

Please go to those threads and tell the male OP’s and the male posters exactly what you have told the OP and the rest of us here. Once you do that, your “constructive criticism” of ariel_angel77 will have a lot more weight.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Where you live and in your religion, it might be right that a woman does not have the right to refuse sex when she wants. But this does not apply here.
> 
> Here women and men have the right to decide when they will have sex. For example if a woman's husband mistreats her, she has the right to refuse sex. Each person can decide for themself what their own boundaries are.
> 
> The OP left her husband because he is abusive and because he was cheating with other women and with men. He had no right, legally and morally, to have sex with her without her consent.


This is also nicely put, and I agree with the _"each person can decide for themselves what their own boundaries are"_ point.

Of-course, a woman's romantic interest will eventually diminish in a persistently bad relationship.

EDIT: The _hinted_ religion grants flexibility to both husband and wife to withhold intimacy under special circumstances and/or in a bad relationship dynamic to force the _guilty_ spouse to consider introspection until the _guilty_ spouse complies and mends his or her ways. This is natural human reaction in these kind of situations. However, some people have the tendency to withhold intimacy to punish a spouse for selfish reasons and this is not acceptable dynamic in a marriage, therefore the concept of conjugal rights and encouragement of obedience. In short, reasons should be valid, not _mood_-oriented.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Since she is not locked up in a mental institution, we can assume that she is not off her rocker. She has the legal right to marry whomever she choses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have on more than one occasion told posters, both male and female, that our advice is biased based on a one sided story and that the whole truth is probably somewhere in the middle, just as I have said here. Therefore, the advice may not be sound based on our slanted perspective.

Everything is not sexist as you seem to believe.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NoChoice said:


> I have on more than one occasion told posters, both male and female, that our advice is biased based on a one sided story and that the whole truth is probably somewhere in the middle, just as I have said here. Therefore, the advice may not be sound based on our slanted perspective.
> 
> Everything is not sexist as you seem to believe.


I do not believe everything is sexist. 

However I have never, not once, on TAM seen a male poster called down in the manner in which you called out ariel_angel77.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> This is also nicely put, and I agree with the _"each person can decide for themselves what their own boundaries are"_ point.
> 
> Of-course, a woman's romantic interest will eventually diminish in a persistently bad relationship.
> 
> EDIT: The _hinted_ religion grants flexibility to both husband and wife to withhold intimacy under special circumstances and/or in a bad relationship dynamic to force the _guilty_ spouse to consider introspection until the _guilty_ spouse complies and mends his or her ways. This is natural human reaction in these kind of situations. However, some people have the tendency to withhold intimacy to punish a spouse for selfish reasons and this is not acceptable dynamic in a marriage, therefore the concept of conjugal rights and encouragement of obedience. In short, reasons should be valid, not _mood_-oriented.


I am very much aware of what the religion allows for as well as how it is very often implemented in real life.

However that has zero to do with ariel_angel77 as it does not apply to her. ariel_angel77, as does every human here, male or female, has the right to not have sex if they so chose. And if they make that choice, then their spouse has the right to decide to modify their behavior, leave, or just live with it. No one owns the right to use another's body, ever.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Oh geez...


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I do not believe everything is sexist.
> 
> However I have never, not once, on TAM seen a male poster called down in the manner in which you called out ariel_angel77.


How about called a troll? So unbelievable so as to be considered fictitious.

I never called her a troll but I do believe that some of her story is fantastic, embellished, exaggerated. My point was not about the advice given but the trashing of a person we only know about from one side.

If everything she wrote is true and accurate, then I wholeheartedly concur that she would be remiss in not removing herself from the situation asap. If it's not however, my denigrating the character of her H is not only not helpful but may actually be harmful. That was my point, just that we temper our judgements of him with prudence or as some say, take it with a grain of salt.


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

Love yourself and your daughter more than to try and hold on to a memory or a what could be. The sooner you face reality and make a change the sooner you can be blessed.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

We can only respond to the information given. Anything else we might add, would be only conjecture. So based on the information given, we can only respond accordingly. Most of us would divorce a spouse soliciting sex from Craig's List. She also found out that he is interested in men as well, and I am sure that was a shock. She married someone who presented a fraudulent image of who they were. Because of her very conservative family, whom probably find divorce a sin, judge her for wanting to end a marriage. 

Blossom does sound correct when she states that he does have a personality disorder. Until he seeks help, we will never know. But people with personality disorder can sometimes navigate through society well. Look at narcissists. Charming to most, but in the private home, they can be very abusive. To all of their friends, and family, there is nothing wrong with them, because they present a different persona like a mask. That is why people are shocked when they find that their neighbor is a serial killer, some people can change personality like changing a mask. 

Ariel is in conflict. Her mother and aunt, want her to be married, and saw her sexual assault as wifely duty. Some people will never change their personal belief system. Ariel wants to leave her husband, but some of her family members want her to stay in the marriage, because of their personal beliefs.

Ariel, if you kept the emails about the craig's list thing, present it in court. I am sure you will get sole custody. You have to play smart now, and the way to win is evidence. If he is harassing you on text and voice mail, you can use that as evidence. That is probably the best way to talk to him, is through text and voice mail. Your probably engaging too much. Just let the talk revolve around your child, and if it goes elsewhere, shut it down.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I am very much aware of what the religion allows for as well as how it is very often implemented in real life.
> 
> However that has zero to do with ariel_angel77 as it does not apply to her. ariel_angel77, as does every human here, male or female, has the right to not have sex if they so chose. And if they make that choice, then their spouse has the right to decide to modify their behavior, leave, or just live with it. No one owns the right to use another's body, ever.


Their are laws for marriage (on one side) and then their are responsibilities in marriage (on the other side). A healthy relationship is typically balanced.

Of-course, everybody have the right to (or can) refuse sex in a marriage without justification but is this good for a marriage? Refusal to have sex without valid reason can really hurt feelings of a spouse irrespective of the dynamic of the relationship, the casualty would be marriage itself eventually.

Laws are designed to protect people from harm but people (as couples) always have the option to redefine do's and don'ts of a marriage for themselves to formulate their relationship and make it work. In a marriage, one has to think about the feelings of the spouse and make some compromises accordingly if necessary; same is expected from the spouse in return, to reach a mutual understanding on the do's and don'ts of the relationship. This is globally applicable dynamic for success in marriage irrespective of directions offered by laws and religions for do's, don'ts, and responsibilities in marriage in any part of the world.

If a husband (or wife) is moody about intimacy or have views like that of a single person, he or she shouldn't get married unless lucky enough to find a partner who is willing to put up with this kind of dynamic. Politically correct views (and laws) for marriage are not necessarily practical or acceptable for all people globally, they can always be tweaked and/or modified on philosophical grounds by lawmakers and mutual understanding between the spouses. 

And this point of mine wasn't directed to OP. I offered advice for her matter separately. 



Mr.Fisty said:


> We can only respond to the information given. Anything else we might add, would be only conjecture. So based on the information given, we can only respond accordingly. Most of us would divorce a spouse soliciting sex from Craig's List. She also found out that he is interested in men as well, and I am sure that was a shock. She married someone who presented a fraudulent image of who they were. Because of her very conservative family, whom probably find divorce a sin, judge her for wanting to end a marriage.
> 
> Blossom does sound correct when she states that he does have a personality disorder. Until he seeks help, we will never know. But people with personality disorder can sometimes navigate through society well. Look at narcissists. Charming to most, but in the private home, they can be very abusive. To all of their friends, and family, there is nothing wrong with them, because they present a different persona like a mask. That is why people are shocked when they find that their neighbor is a serial killer, some people can change personality like changing a mask.
> 
> ...


The wife also cheated on her husband, during separation. She don't have a moral ground to stand upon either and she cannot dictate the terms of visitation rights of her presumably STBX for their child by herself, she needs legal advice for this matter. Yes, she should insist upon IC for her presumably STBX as a condition to reach a mutually acceptable understanding for visitation rights to their child because the child deserves good parenting. Otherwise, court would settle this matter.

The point of contention in this thread is that should we offer validation (stroke ego) of those who are seeking advice in this forum or should we try to be neutral and promote rationality? If the former is the principle practice of contributors in this forum then I would refrain from offering advice and caution other potential critics about the same.

Anyways, OP have gotten some great advice in her thread. Critics have offered both advice and dose of introspection.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

If you take the totality of his actions versus hers, each person will have their bias opinion. You feel like she has no moral high ground, but in her view, and those who share it with her, his soliciting sex from online, his abusive behavior, his unstable personality, his hiding the fact that he is bisexual, him bringing strangers to the home where their child lives for sex, and plus him sexually assaulting her while she was sleeping, one could make an argument she has a higher moral ground. Some people could say that his cheating and everything that he did, is equivalent to what she did, and they both are no better than the other. Even your opinion stating she has no moral high ground is a bias opinion. Being neutral is just looking at the situation with just the facts. From what people infer from those facts and make a judgement from what they inferred, then the neutrality is gone.

Yes, I do believe her cheating was wrong, but the totality of what he has done to her, I have a higher opinion of her. And I will admit that is my bias opinion. Once i give thought to that information, I become bias. And I don't see people in black and white, more like who has less disfunction. If it helps, I see her having less disfunction than her husband. Reason why I hate morality is because so much of it is subjective.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

She is in danger, her child is in danger while he is in his current condition. She has a massive moral duty to the safety of her child which includes safety of herself on behalf of her child bare minimum, all else aside. Its that simple. As young as she is this has affected her ability to see clearly through this situation and make decisions. Its called lack of life experience and trying to wade her way through vastly different opinions to make the best decision. Its why I directed her to lean on her grandpa. I feel he is the clear voice here. He is calling her everyday clearly concerned. 

OP you will need to steel yourself against your H's affections. Its your achillies heel.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

intheory said:


> It's good you realize you need to get your weight down. Instead of going out to meet guys (if you do that), go have a work-out.


You have a stroller, right? You can lose 50 pounds in a year just by walking every day.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ariel_angel77 said:


> Elegirl, I wrote this to a family member before I left H to fully explain everything. You guys don't have to read this whole thing but Elegirl asked for a full list and here it is.
> 
> 1. He lied about who he was from the beginning. He made me to believe he was a dedicated Christian who went to church frequently, did not want to miss a church service, always praying, always reading the bible, and always wanting to talk about God. He even got anointed every service. He portrayed himself as a very happy person who was always in a good mood & is uplifted. He also portrayed himself as a very sweet person who would forgive me no matter what I did. He was a person who smoked, cussed, and drank when he had made it clear that his values & morals were the same as mine before we married and that he did not have a desire for any of the previous listed. After we married, I found out that he was not really a Christian and that he did all of those things. He got to where he refused to even talk about God. He was a very negative person who was in a bad mood a lot of the time. He held grudges & was slow to forgive. He acted completely different from how he was when we dated. Who he revealed himself to be when we married was not just a case of showing the best before and the worst after we married, but rather a case of concocting a completely different personality to reel me in, only to show me his real personality after he married. He revealed to me in words the other night that he pretended to be a Christian and have the traits/values/morals I desire so that I would marry him and that he could not keep up the act anymore; that he is in fact not a Christian.
> 
> ...


In case you're wavering, ariel, this person needs consistent, long-term therapy, not anti-depressants. He was misdiagnosed and is not safe to be with. Don't let your child grow up with more than limited time with him so that your child can return to your stable home after visits and see what healthy living is like; so he won't grow up to think that what his dad does is normal.

Oh, and I think we told you to read Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men, right? One of the things you learn in that book is that they see you as a possession, a thing, not a person. So, once you do move out, they become obsessed with 'winning you back' as they would any other trophy. It's not about you. He doesn't love you. He just wants his stuff back and he hates to lose.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

ariel_angel77 said:


> ... STBX has been pestering me about getting back together, calling me babe, saying he loves me. I have been kind of afraid to stand up for myself and say no. Afraid of what he might do.


What could he possibly do that he hasn't done already? And you need to start ignoring this man, and *stop coming around him.* Ignore his calls and texts; do NOT answer unless it's something about your daughter. And for heaven's sake, if you have problems or issues with something else, do NOT go to or call him. Your mixed messages are giving him hope, and you don't want that.

I saw your other post about how you're sure you'll end up alone while he ends up with a "Barbie." Guess what? If he doesn't get help, he'll treat another woman the same way he treated you. Besides, you don't know that you'll end up alone. I do suggest individual counseling so you can strengthen yourself.



ariel_angel77 said:


> ... he was being cold and rude from the beginning. I said, "See, you see that it won't work out, don't you?" And *he said "No, we could work it out if you would show that you care more." He then started lecturing me about how I need to step up my parenting because I'm not doing a good job.* He also informed me that if he wasn't working, he would have her all the time. I shut that down quickly. But I asked him about his concerns with my parenting, the first thing he listed was when I didn't answer when he carried her to the doctor (I was watching a movie with my parents and called back right after). I asked for any more examples and he didn't have any. I said "I don't see your point as valid until you give examples." *He said "No, we're just not going to talk about this because you're going to turn it around on me."*


Stop talking to him about anything. He will just try to turn it around on you. He's BS'ing you. You have nothing else to discuss with him.



ariel_angel77 said:


> Then I said I want a divorce. He asked why. I said, "You will not get counseling for your mental issues or abusive behaviors. So I will not try to work it out."


Good, rational response. This is all the explanation he is owed.



ariel_angel77 said:


> He went on a rant about how he didn't need counseling and he can fix it himself. I told him no, that's not acceptable enough for me to take him back and we wouldn't get back together while he still had those problems.


Again, good rational response. Now, *stop talking to and being around him unless it's about your daughter.* He cannot fix his problems himself, trust me. It's going to take a LOT of professional, long-term therapy -- and that's only if he WANTS to do it. And at this point, I'm not seeing where he wants to.



ariel_angel77 said:


> He was like, "OH, yeah? Well, you slept with another man! Boom!" (referring to the guy I saw after the separation began) and left the room.


LMAO This is coming from a man who solicited sex on Craigslist, confirmed to you that he had an actual encounter with a man (in a parking lot, no less -- and Lord knows how many other people he's done), didn't feed your daughter for eight hours while he was doing Lord knows what, has been emotionally/verbally/physically abusive from day one, AND has dissociative-identity disorder (referring to his other personality "Mikey"). He is seriously screwed up. 



ariel_angel77 said:


> He's been pestering me all last night and today making sure I want a divorce. I keep telling him yes.


He's trying to wear you down. *Stop answering and talking to him.* You've already told him yes, so he already has his answer. 

I'm not kidding, Ariel -- shut off your phone if you have to. You are worthy of much more than this. You know what he's trying to do. So cut him off at the proverbial knees and do NOT engage in anything with him unless it's about your daughter.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ariel, how are you holding up?


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