# Feeling Suffocated



## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

I am feeling suffocated in my long distance relationship. Both of us have children from previous marriages and currently live a 20 hour drive apart. He calls 3 or 4 times per day and sends a number of texts as well. I have previously asked him to please not call my house after midnight because my children are sleeping, but he has said he only called because he was worried about me and worries more when he can't get ahold of me. For my part, I admit to not always answering the phone when he calls if I am busy with something else, but I simply don't answer the phone at all when I am preoccupied with other matters. That's what answering machines are for. I honestly am comfortable enough with the relationship that I do not feel the need to speak with him every single day and if I did not hear from him for a few days, i would just assume he was busy and would call when he had the chance. If I do not call him for several days, he assumes that I am going to dump him. When I have told him I need a bit of space and time to myself, he assumes I am going to dump him.

He also seems to expect me to be online every night for instant messenger chats, even though it is often after 10pm when he is available to be online himself ( he doesn't sleep well and is always up late) and gets hurt and annoyed if I am online talking to anyone but him. I have dropped long time male friends from my Facebook because of his disapproval and he has voiced disapproval of some of my long time female friends , because he fears they want to tempt me into possible bad behaviour. I have 4 kids, of whom I have primary physical custody, and most nights after I get them to bed, I just want to fall down myself, but feel almost obligated to get online, even though the household choirs pile up around me.

I feel like however much time I give him, it is never enough to satisfy him.

My birthday is coming up and due to a change in access schedule, my kids will now be going to their fathers house that weekend. My boyfriend's brother is getting remarried that weekend, so I made plans to spring clean my house ( which still needs decluttering after the kids and I moved into it last year) and was looking forward to finally getting the house in order - my birthday present to myself.

Well, without consulting me, my boyfriend went ahead and booked a plane ticket for himself to come here that weekend, and I totally resent his apparent presumption that I'm just sitting around with nothing to do. I really feel like I'm too old for surprises...and frustrated that I have to now change my plans to fit around his - again.

Is he clingy, codependant, or am I an enabler?


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

You are essentially each showing love in YOUR way and not showing love in the others way. BOTH of you. 

If you'd like me to go deeper let me know if this isn't making sense.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Okay, you've got my attention 

Please elaborate?


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

Sorry, been away...

Trick is there would be woman thrilled to have your situation! Not that they are normal and you are not or vice versa. Just that people ARE different.

For instance you see his making plans to come and see you on your birthday as as a bit controlling and presumptuous. He may well see it as showing you love and that you, as his girlfriend, would want to have him around for your birthday. Quite honestly many woman would be thrilled with this and a bit pissed if he didn't make a big effort to be with them on their birthday. They would be thrilled not only at his desire to be with them but that he surprised them. Make you wrong? Nope. Him...nope.

Now in other areas you have communicated to him what you wish and he is still not listening. So...I'm not saying your out of line for thinking he is a bit insecure and smothering either. The trick is at some time when you are together you need to communicate gently yet without beating around the bush what your desires are in different areas and why (the why makes a huge difference). I see where you've communicated before...well, men ARE slow  Maybe find out a bit more about what you do like, and let him know. To be fair asking him a bit about what he would like would be nice as well. Maybe the two of you will find a nice middle ground.

Also you past experiences come into play. Was he dumped hard? Were you majorly controlled? Those are things that can and do change our disposition in future relationships. It can take a while before we become completely trusting again - even if we totally WANT to.

You never know - you both may find that what you are looking for really isn't what each of you is willing or wanting to be. You may find it makes things so much better for both of you and that it will help your relationship flourish.

We tend to show love in the way we would like loved. For most of us we assume that everyone would like loved just like us. Truth is it may be more like cake and pie. While the both of you may like cake and pie, you may just like cake in an out of this world way and he may feel the same about pie. He is nuts about pie and so constantly sends you pies, cherry, apple, ... Now while pie is OK to you it certainly wouldn't be the same as cake and so not only do you confuse him by not being thrilled with his pie gifts, you may actually become irritated with them. And vice versa, you may be sending a pie lover...cake. Don't know.

Read a book and it basically said there were 5 basic love languages and that it was a good idea to think about which ones you liked most and find out which your partner likes most as well. You can get a quick overview here The 5 Love Languages™ | Five Love Languages


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

The fact that he's jealous of your friends and has influenced you to drop some (maybe even insisted) is the thing that tips it over for me into clingy, possessive and jealous. Possessiveness, by the way, has nothing to do with love and nothing to do with YOU, but it's all about him. So despite outwardly seeming like a great guy on paper, he's selfish.

On the other hand, from the tone of your post, I would guess that you are also just in different places. It sounds like you are relishing in your space and me-time whereas he's more about closeness and us-time. 

Since the relationship is long-distance anyway, it surprises me that you would be annoyed at the opportunity to see him. This tells me you don't really want to be in this relationship. What's the point of a boyfriend if you don't ever want to see him?


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Yeah, I'm thinking you aren't really into this guy. I wouldn't want to be someone that clingy and demanding myself. I'm not into constantly chatting with someone 24/7 and the whole bit with him demanding that you drop friends and have a designated time to talk would be a real turn off to me as well. I personally wouldn't put up with someone like this, although I probably would be wanting to spend my birthday with someone I cared about rather than cleaning the house. The fact that you are so annoyed at about this tells me that your heart really isn't into this relationship. 

Sounds like you both don't do a very good job of communicating with to each other and your tone indicates that you are pretty much fed up with him in a number of ways. You live a day's drive away as it is so why put up with these constant intrusions onto your time and space? I'm wondering why you are even bothering to have a relationship with this guy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell him it's too much. And if he can't learn to respect your boundaries, you can't keep dating.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Thank you for all the responses so far. I really appreciate your time and input as I try to figure this situation out.

My boyfriend suffers from mild OCD and anxiety, and I feel he is insecure, possibly due to previous relationships prior to his marriage and with the apparent emotional abuse he experienced during his marriage.

I would agree that he and I are in different places in some ways: he often mentions his fear of being alone and feeling lonely, which is not something which I experience: I am perfectly content by myself and although I miss him when he is not here, I am not lonely. He says he is worried about me being here alone when my children are at their fathers house for a weekend and feels like he should never leave me to be sitting here alone. I have reassured him that I enjoy it when he is here but am perfectly fine and happy spending weekends alone. He has said I am the only friend he wants or needs. I have told him I need to keep other friends in my life and tried to reassure him that he has nothing to be worried about regarding my friends. 

I have expressed my desire to declutter and organize my current house to my boyfriend. After 2 moves in 2 years and into smaller houses each time, there are too many things in a limited amount of space. Due to the hostile relationship I am currently experiencing with my ex and possible custody issues which may involve social workers, I want to have the tidy, uncluttered environment which I feel the kids and I deserve. My boyfriend tells me that no one is going to judge me by the state of my house because I have kids. I have tried to explain to him that while I accept that I will never have a perfectly tidy house all the time, I simply feel overwhelmed by the amount of stuff there is and that it is important to me to sort out the house and that I need more free time in which to do that. I sort of feel like he is dismissing my concerns.

As far as wanting to see him - yes, I do want to see him, and he has actually made fairly frequent trips to visit for weekends when my children are with their father. He does not spend time here when my kids are home, as I feel they are dealing with enough stuff without throwing moms boyfriend into the mix right now. He was last here the first weekend of April and has made a total of 9 visits since the beginning of December 2009. 

In February, I had made plans to go visit an old high school friend who lives a few hours drive away on one of the weekends the children were with their father. My boyfriend did not seem happy about this, and wanted to come visit himself. I said I had already made plans. I went to my friends, had a great evening catching up on everything, spent the next morning talking with her and her kids and then set off for home. Not too long after setting off, I started receiving text messages from my boyfriend...he had logged into my Facebook account and found my friends address and driven out to wait for me to leave her house so he could see me....kind of cute...kind of stalkerish....

I have expressed to him my concern over my personal finances: no savings for either myself or the children, having to find funds to finish the university degree I started prior to getting married, lawyers bills...just about my complete lack of financial security and of how much that worries me. I have a greater income stream than he does, but am finding myself short of funds and living from cheque to cheque. In the past 5 months, I have probably spent nearly $10000 on boyfriends travel expenses, food, accommodation, gifts for his children at Christmas time because he had no cash and was distraught over not being able to give his kids a Christmas, repairs on his car, additional gifts to take home to his children...etc. He has asked me for money to take home and feed his kids after spending weekends here and also wonders how he will pay his lawyer bills....

He has paid for the plane tickets to come up on my birthday...I told him I felt that the money could have been better used to cover lawyer costs. I feel he brushed me off by saying I needn't worry because the money he spent on tickets wasn't from the lawyer pot anyway....

Late now and tired....sorry for long post...have probably forgot things during this rant and will revisit later.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

It is not the amount of money I have spent that upsets me, so much as why he can't be more financially responsible himself and take my concerns/ worries about my own financial position more seriously. I need to actually start working towards both my short and long term financial/life goals.

So when he panics and makes extra trips here, which wind up costing me and my kids money, it does concern me. I am worried about how I will meet the future needs of my children. 

He has previously made comments about my children being spoiled because they have a lot more material possessions than his children, and about how things are much easier for me because my ex earns a good professional salary and pays a fairly hefty child/ spousal support amount, and has commented on what he seems to think is my excessive expenditure on my kids while his income level doesn't allow his kids to enjoy the same things as mine already have.

I feel like I have been trying to make him understand that I can't afford to pay for trips so frequently...I've actually told him that I can't afford to maintain the level of expenditure I am currently expending. I don't know why the message is not getting through. 

Yes, he has paid for the airline ticket to get here, but it is money I feel he can ill afford, and will cost me money I can not really currently afford either: I will need to pick him up at a major airport, which involves a 4 1/2 hour round trip, then there will be expenses for the weekend; food, drink, etc...and he will either need to be driven back to the airport or book alternative transport. I texted him yesterday to ask if he had booked transport back to the airport yet, and he replied with a no. 

I just don't know what to do anymore...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The point is, the way he is IS NOT HEALTHY.

He needs medical help for his severe insecurity and low self-worth. He needs therapy.

YOU cannot provide that for him. He wants YOU to become EVERYTHING for him. You can't. No matter how much you keep Giving, he will ALWAYS want more. He'll find higher hoops for you to jump through, to prove yourself to him.

If he doesn't get help, he will NEVER stop telling you you have to PROVE your love to him - because he doesn't love himself.

PLEASE don't go down that path. He already thinks he has the right to make decisions for you, just so HE can feel better. Stop it now.


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## PeasNCarrots (Apr 5, 2010)

I have to say I agree with alot of what Tunera is saying. Where I see a REAL BIG problem with this guy is that he complains and is concerned with how you spend your money and how you treat your kids, but in the next breath hes going to take the expense of traveling to you away from his own kids, and then whine about how they dont have the advantages your kids have. ????

My best advice to you is to sit down with him and explain how you feel, set boundries, advise him to invest some of his travel money in a good therapist, and STOP paying his expenses!!!!! As long as you allow him to take advantage of your finances, he will continue to do the things he does.... its a mini vacation for him, that he doesnt even have to pay for! 

Time to put your foot down sweetie, and IMO if he has any issues with the boundries you set, its time for both of you to move on.

FYI, if social services gets involved in your family, they WILL note the state of your home, they dont expect it to look like you have a daily housekeeper but it also shouldnt look like you moved in the night before either. They will also want to look in your kitchen to be sure you have food in the house and will want to see the kids rooms to see if they have sufficient living conditions. Its a scary thing and you do want to avoid them being involved in your family business as much as possible.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

It doesn't sound like you have had much time to take a deep breath after your divorce and live life on your own and for yourself. Now you've got this albatross around your neck to deal with as well as your own personal problems, the kids, getting settled after your move, etc. 

Isn't it time you start living life by yourself, for yourself? Why the need to be in this relationship? You need to think deeply about this. You have your kids and if your family life is anything like mine, then they demand a lot of your time and energy. Why have this suffocating, problematic relationship with an overly anxious, needy, demanding, unreasonable person as well? I don't get it. 

He might very well be nice and you probably do enjoy spending time with him when things are good, but IMO it sounds like it's WAY too much trouble and part of your problem is that you aren't taking the time to do for YOURSELF and now you have to do for HIM. Isn't one set of children enough? :scratchhead:

I can be needy emotionally too but I definitely need time for myself and this kind of guy would drive me NUTS. I'd be running fast and far away from this guy. I KNOW I couldn't deal with it and I'm amazed you do. On top of the emotional wreckage he's putting a hurt on your pocketbook and it seems illogical to be spending money on him when you have a family to deal with as well. 

I personally don't see much hope for this guy. Do you really foresee a future with a guy who can't even provide for himself and his own family and acts like a child himself? You live 20 hours away from him, he's a pain in the butt when you aren't together and he doesn't let you live in peace or and is hurting your financial security. Why put up with it? Wouldn't it be better to invest all this time, energy and money into living your life as you wish and spending it with your children? Instead of spending the money on him, wouldn't it be more fun to take the kids on a vacation or take a trip with your friends? You don't NEED to have this man in your life. What is this relationship actually doing for YOU?

I'm a big believer in taking a significant amount of time AWAY from dating and serious relationships after a divorce. I think you might want to look hard at your situation and come up with some serious solutions. If it were me I'd end it. I'm with Turnera, stop the madness before it's too late. This guy sounds like something out of a bad movie.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

I think the words "Rebound Relationship " apply - for both he and I, so double trouble in some ways. Both he and I are from the same area and have known each other for a long time, and yes, we did briefly date a long, long time ago before going on to lead seperate lives.

Although it is not how I envisioned spending my birthday weekend, I will need to have a very serious talk with him while he is here. I want to explain that I can not longer afford such frequent trips, and may be able to afford one once every 3 months, perhaps every second depending on circumstances. I will also explain that if he chooses to make an unplanned/ unexpected visit, that he will be bearing the total financial cost of any such trip and that if he feels paying for such a trip cost money which he will need to cover family expenses, then he should reconsider making the trip.

I have to explain that I can not support both the needs of his family and mine and that is not my fault if his children do not have the same level of material possessions as my children do, nor is it my responsibility to provide an equal standard of living for them out of guilt, obligation, my own tendency to be generous, or because I am better off financially.

When I have mentioned to him that I need to hold off on paying a bill because of a shortage of funds, he justs states that lots of people are a month or more behind on bills. The point is that my level of income is such that it should put me in the very lucky position of never being behind. I just honestly feel he is not looking at things from my perspective at all.

I did press him via msn and text regarding booking his return travel to the airport and he has finally done that at his own expense - but I still feel this is money he can ill afford. 

I really feel this birthday trip is about fulfilling his needs without really taking mine into consideration of all.

Just need to figure out the best way of telling him all this...and I do agree that if he is not willing to comply with my boundaries or show acceptance and understanding, or gets angry or overly emotional, than there doesn't seem to be much hope for the relationship.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

You still haven't answered my question. WHY the need for this relationship at all? What's the point? So you can see him every other month at the most? In the meantime you have to put up with his pestering and badgering and demands? What the heck for? :scratchhead: What are you GETTING out of this? 

Sounds like you have a lot more to gain by cutting him loose and starting to live your life by yourself, as your own person. You seem unwilling to make this step. You just said this is a rebound relationship. That sort of thing by definition is done out of the need to have a replacement for someone or something after a traumatic loss (such as a divorce). Isn't it time you start to live for yourself and not through someone else? You seem unwilling to do this. 

I think the problem is not so much him or the money you spend on him, but it lies within yourself. Right now you want the best of both worlds. You claim to want your space and independence but you seem to also, in some way, desire having this person being dependent on you. I think it's somehow connected to your feelings about your divorce. 

You need to think about this a bit more. There's more to this situation than meets the eye.  You are focusing on the small details but not looking at the big picture.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

FOAL - very well said. 

As for the whole issue regarding equalizing the kids living standards - that is truly bizarre beyond words. As his GF you have zero financial responsibility for his children. 

My opinion FWIW is that he needs to pay his plane tickets, rent a car and then go dutch with you on actual date/restaurant costs. If money is tight and you two simply want to eat in, he should go grocery shopping with you and pick up at least half the tab - he would be eating at home anyway. If he needs to manage his expenses better to do all this, than he needs to step up and do that. 

Anybody can "say" I love you. Its the actions that show the real underlying feelings.



Freak On a Leash said:


> You still haven't answered my question. WHY the need for this relationship at all? What's the point? So you can see him every other month at the most? In the meantime you have to put up with his pestering and badgering and demands? What the heck for? :scratchhead: What are you GETTING out of this?
> 
> Sounds like you have a lot more to gain by cutting him loose and starting to live your life by yourself, as your own person. You seem unwilling to make this step. You just said this is a rebound relationship. That sort of thing by definition is done out of the need to have a replacement for someone or something after a traumatic loss (such as a divorce). Isn't it time you start to live for yourself and not through someone else? You seem unwilling to do this.
> 
> ...


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Almost a year has passed since I began this thread. As surprising as it may be in light of everything I wrote back then, I have maintained a relationship with the above mentioned boyfriend. Reading back through this thread, I'd like to clarify and revisit a few things: he had already made plans to attend his brothers' wedding, had told his mother that he was planning to go and was planning to take his kids to the wedding. Then when he found out my ex was going to have my kids for the weekend, he cancelled out on his first set of plans and made plans to come here. Yes, I know it was my birthday, but for me it is just another day and I had already explained to him that we could see each other again at the beginning of May (2010) in any case, so he should attend his brothers' wedding - especially since he had already made a commitment to doing so. Since I have primary physical custody of my 4 kids, who range in age from 3 to 14 ( ex has them every other weekend from Friday after school until Sunday afternoon) and every other Tuesday (for a 4 hour period) the only real time to catch up on household chores is when the kids are at their dad's house. I only recently moved here, so no long term friends established, and no family members within an 18 hour drive. 

FOAL : You asked a very valid question - WHY the need for this relationship at all? Sometimes I really don't know why I got into it in the first place - needing validation of my attractiveness and a belief that I couldn't possibly manage on my own without someone there to help me through everything, emotional dependency because he came along during my greatest period of weakness? Then, it just became difficult to leave it or always the wrong time: his mother was sick, his dad had a cancer scare, he was fighting his ex for physical custody of his kids. At one point when I told him I needed some space from the relationship, and didn't speak to him for a few days, he sent numerous text messages, phone messages, and went to hospital for chest pains because he said he though he was having a heart attack, and then sent me a pic he took of himself lying in a hospital bed wearing a hospital gown. 

Maybe my problem is that I'm a rescuer and feel overly responsible for people sometimes - even when those people need to take responsibility for themselves. I knew I didn't need him in the same way he claimed to need me, but felt guilty for feeling that way and let that guilt and his tears control me. Maybe I'm just trying to justify why I am where I now am...which is up in the air.

He was granted full time custody of his kids. His ex was physically and emotionally abusing them and there were allegations made by the children that she had inappropriately touched the youngest child. Social services was involved and it was a traumatic time for the family. The mother has since moved, left no forwarding address, and made no effort to contact the children. Social services will continue to moniter the progress of the children for the next 6 months, and after that he talked about moving to the same province as me and says his children are very agreeable to moving.

He is not currently working, not going to school, is living in a 2 bedroomed apartment, owns no car and has no assets from his marriage. I'm renting a 4 bedroomed house, have a minivan, attending university part time to finish my degree, and am lucky enough to have fairly substantial assets from my divorce agreement. I know that may sound like I am just selfishly putting this whole relationship into a money based situation - a has and has not category that a romantic realtionship should not be based upon, but there is nothing romantic about being broke and having children to support, and my first priority is to my own children - even if that does seem like a selfish hoarding of assets. 

My children do not like his children, and definitely do not want to share a house with them. Nor do they want him to move in, even if it was by himself. Yes, I know that I am the boss of the household and ultimate decider of what goes on in my house, but feel the children have a right to an opinion in the matter. It is their home - the place where they are supposed to feel safe and happy, and blending of families is usually a fraught experience even when everyone in the proposed family is well-adjusted. His 3 boys are currently all in therapy to help them deal with their issues. My eldest son's guidance counsellor called me the other day to recommend academic testing, followed by some further therapy for him. ( He was previously in therapy but refused to go after a number of appointments and his therapist at the time said my son's wishes to stop should be respected at that time). My son also has some anger management issues, and is a very internalized, anxious young man. While staying with his Dad for an extended period of 6 days at Christmas, his Dad got into an arguement with him on New Years Eve, which became physical when the ex started shoving my son while yelling at him. Son said he did not retaliate or respond, but did cry once Dad had actually left his room. My second youngest daughter has been experiencing persistant tummy aches since the Christmas stay at her dad's house. Doctor says there is no physical cause and believes the stomach problems are stress related. Eldest daughter has impulse control/ anger issues, and has the same tendency to blame shift as her brother. The youngest is clingy and demanding, but is not yet 4 years old, so some of that behaviour is still to be expected perhaps. But with all of the issues being experienced by my own children, I don't think it's fair to add the complexity of fitting another family into their house - another family with issues of their own. 

My important goal to achieve is finishing my university degree, which is difficult to fit in around my family commitments as it is and even more so when my boyfriend expects at least one daily phone call. I have told him multiple times that a daily phone call is not always possible, as I have other commitments and need more time to study. I have said I can not talk on the phone every evening because I need to study after the kids get to bed. I have expressed my fears of failing my classes because of not having enough time to study. His response is that" failing is not the end of the world", but for me it would be the end of a sustained secure future for my family. I've told him that this is my opportunity to finish that degree, and yes, although it would not be the end of the world, it is extremely important to me, because the university was gracious enough to take a chance of my suceeding, and I do not want to waste this opportunity. 

The last time I did not speak to him for several days ( during the time period I was dealing with my son's revelation about the incident with his dad and studying for a test) he left multiple messages on my answering machine, multiple texts on my cell, numerous emails and Facebook messages, culminating ia an email saying he was planning on packing his kids into a rental car and driving here and that he would get the boys to keep the trip a secret from their social worker and therapists ( court order states no out of province tr5avel for next 6 months). I capitulated and replied, stating that even if he did come here, I would not be available, and that furthermore I thought it totally irresponsible to risk losing custody of his children by taking them on a trip in direct defiance of a court order, and that it was unfair of him to expect his kids to be complicit in his deceit and to lie, if they should be asked about any trips. 

This previous weekend, I spoke with him on Thursday and said I had a mid term to study for , so would speak with him sometime after I had finished the test. My kids were going to their Dad's house for the weekend, and I needed some cramming time in order to feel somwhat prepared. Despite my telling him this, he tried to get me to agree to at least call once or twice over the weekend, just to say hello. I again said no and repeated my reasons for needing the time away from the phone and after several repeats of the same message, he seemed to accept it. Howver, he called on the Friday ( left a message since I did not pick up), sent several text messages ( which I had to check in case they were from/about my kids), Facebook messages, hotmail messages, MSN messages, and then more phone calls on Monday, which was the day I was writing the exam. 

I've felt so aggravated over his lack of respect about my need for study time that I haven't spoken to him for the rest of this past week, even though there have been numerous texts, phone messages, Facebook messages, Facebook wall messages, emails, MSN messages. The relationship started out as fun, but has spiralled downwards into a state of utter dependency on his side. 

And how has this last week without contact been? Surprisingly stress free. Kids and I have spent alot of time together. I've had time to study, relax and stay on top of the majority of the household chores. I haven't felt torn between the kids and him.

So what now? I've realized that I don't want to get married until at least after all the kids have reached adulthood and definitely am not prepared to have a romantic partner move into my house. Now I am faced with explaining this all to a person who will most likely get very emotional, and who will most likely accuse me of trying to run away from a commitment just because I am frightened, or being selfish. 

Opening the floor to anyone who has a perspective on all this. Please feel free to poke at me with sharp, pointy sticks in order to clarify things


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know what now.

You STILL need space.

You will never get your life in order if you stay connected to him. And your children will continue to suffer.

Break it off.

You can always reconnect later, after you've finished your degree and gotten things straightened out - AND after you've gone through a LOT of therapy to learn to get rid of your Giver personality.

Please.


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

You're not going to like this. You say you're a giver, but I think you're being pretty selfish here. You're clearly not interested in this guy, and yet you string him along and give him the silent treatment for days with no concern for the anxiety that causes a person. You are entirely focused on school, kids, etc., but if you really wanted to be with him, you'd make time. You're just not that into him, but maybe having his attention is a boost to your ego. So why have you not been direct, honest, and straighforward and cut him loose? It is totally unfair to him to keep him thinking that you still want to keep this relationship going and pretty arrogant to mock his apparent feeling for you.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Overwhelmed said:


> Almost a year has passed since I began this thread. As surprising as it may be in light of everything I wrote back then, I have maintained a relationship with the above mentioned boyfriend. Reading back through this thread, I'd like to clarify and revisit a few things: he had already made plans to attend his brothers' wedding, had told his mother that he was planning to go and was planning to take his kids to the wedding. Then when he found out my ex was going to have my kids for the weekend, he cancelled out on his first set of plans and made plans to come here. Yes, I know it was my birthday, but for me it is just another day and I had already explained to him that we could see each other again at the beginning of May (2010) in any case, so he should attend his brothers' wedding - especially since he had already made a commitment to doing so. Since I have primary physical custody of my 4 kids, who range in age from 3 to 14 ( ex has them every other weekend from Friday after school until Sunday afternoon) and every other Tuesday (for a 4 hour period) the only real time to catch up on household chores is when the kids are at their dad's house. I only recently moved here, so no long term friends established, and no family members within an 18 hour drive.
> 
> FOAL : You asked a very valid question - WHY the need for this relationship at all? Sometimes I really don't know why I got into it in the first place - needing validation of my attractiveness and a belief that I couldn't possibly manage on my own without someone there to help me through everything, emotional dependency because he came along during my greatest period of weakness? Then, it just became difficult to leave it or always the wrong time: his mother was sick, his dad had a cancer scare, he was fighting his ex for physical custody of his kids. At one point when I told him I needed some space from the relationship, and didn't speak to him for a few days, he sent numerous text messages, phone messages, and went to hospital for chest pains because he said he though he was having a heart attack, and then sent me a pic he took of himself lying in a hospital bed wearing a hospital gown.
> 
> ...


You both need individual therapy. I see that you suffer from SEVERE codependency issues. This is an emotionally abusive relationship; you are allowing yourself to be used by this man. Sending the picture was creepy and appallingly manipulative. Back away and look after yourself and your children! See if your province offers free or low cost therapy. Most universities have free counseling for students. You have your own worries, you don't need someone to suck you dry of money and positive energy.
I didn't just poke you. I also slapped you awake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Myopia1964: I'm not sure if you read this thread all the way through ( and if you have and voiced your honest opinion, than thank you for your perspective). He and his children live over a 20 hour drive away, so it's not simply a matter of popping into the car and dropping by for a visit. Time together involves significant planning and significant expense, most of which I have borne. Yes, I know some would say money shouldn't be an issue, but when I feel like I am forced to chose between paying a bill and spending money to visit him or have him visit me and being pressured into the visit while putting off paying the bill, I think money does become an issue. He wanted me to come to visit him just after Christmas, and when I told him that it wasn't going to be financially possible, especially at that time of the year. (My divorce assets are mainly invested in my childrens university funds, with some reserved for emergencies and the beginnings of a retirement fund). He would not accept this answer, and spoke of how much his mother was looking forward to seeing me, and how excited that his kids were that I was coming down. Stupidly, I caved in to the pressure, even though I wound up postponing the payment of yet another bill in order to make the visit possible. Yes, I know I could have stuck with my no answer and I was possibly weak willed to have given in after having the same conversation too many time to count over the course of a month, especially when I knew that going meant not paying a bill on time. Did I give in to guilt and expectations...probably yep! Most week days I am up by 7am at the latest and running nonstop throughout the day until at least 11 at night. Some nights, yes, I selfishly want to go to bed, rather than spend an hour or 2 on the phone, knowing the same routine will start again the next morning. 

It may sound like my not calling him is a form of punishment ( the silent treatment). Maybe in some small way it is, as I did admit to being aggravated by his not respecting my request for a communication free weekend while I studied for a mid term exam. Yes, the university degree is extremely important to me, as there will come a point in the not too distant future when I will no longer receive spousal support and be required to get a job to help support my 4 kids. So yep, admit to being slightly selfishly slavish to getting my degree but am I wrong to want to achieve financial independence? Mainly though, I have not called because I am delaying an inevitable discussion about the decisions I have made regarding putting my kids ahead of any relationship with him, and the guilt tactics that I fear will be deployed against me...especially when I can't help feeling this is an albatross of a situation I've hung around my own neck. Yep, admit to being weak willed on the whole thing, but no matter how I phrase it, no matter what reasons I give he's going to take it badly and I'll feel crappy about it. Maybe I'm trying to avoid the feeling crappy bit by stalling.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Mrs. G: Thanks for the slap Probably much needed. I haven't given him any money for his personal expenses for several months now, although as previously mentioned, I did allow myself to be convinced to take the post-Christmas trip to visit him. 

I don't offer him advice on parenting his kids, I also gave up trying to solve his legal problems for him, telling him he should do whatever he thought best to do (even though I have been tempted to offer counsel at times, I've learned that it doesn't do any good, so I no longer offer. I admit it is sometimes difficult for me to stand back and not try to help solve the situation). I don't think I always want to solve his problems for him, although perhaps my judgment is clouded on this, seeing as I'm inside the situation.

Turnera: I accept that you are right, and that I need to move forward alone at this time. I know I can do it on my own, and that I am strong enough to look after my kids. Maybe, I initially had my doubts, but I've learned that I can be strong in a lot of ways...just still have a problem with hurting other people. However, in order to look after my kids I need to focus more exclusively on them for the time being and not feel torn between them and him. I'm having to learn that I can't please everybody all the time. 

Oddly enough, I called a therapists office the other day because I realized I need some insight on my own issues...perhaps a bit more than some


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

Overwhelmed,

Sorry if I seemed harsh. I actually do understand to some degree. I completed my Master's last May and was dating a guy. He was WAY more attached to me than I was to him (although, he was also very thoughtful and generous and responsible, unlike your BF), and he wanted to spend every waking moment with me. I had to tell him to stay completely away the last two weeks of school so I could write my Master's Exam and he was offended. I also am a single mom. I could not get him to understand how important it was and how I needed total isolation in order to work. However, I also recognized that I wasn't that into him...if I was, his calls and texts wouldn't have felt like an intrusion, but rather a welcome break from the tedium. Long story short, I finished my Masters and ended up breaking up with him because I felt I was stringing him along and I felt crappy about it. He deserved better than that. It wasn't easy to do and I felt guilty knowing that I hurt him, but when he asked me to "not waste his life" I decided to be straight up with him and it was an enormous relief. We still talk and he has told me how much he appreciates my honesty. 

You've got a lot on your plate...four kids is a lot to manage even without school, etc. You may not be in a position right now to be in a relationship at all. And, no, you should not assume all the financial burden for your relationship...it's no wonder your feelings have cooled with that kind of treatment. 

I have been on the receiving end of the silent treatment lately and it sucks, so I guess I was a little sensitive....sorry!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

An IC is the single most important thing you can do at this point.

Have you ever read about Plan B?


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Turnera: IC? Plan B? Please elaborate? Thanks.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Myopia1964:
I understand that everyones perspective is subject to what is going on in their own lives at the moment, and your first posting made me pause and reflect on my situation, so thank you for that. I am sorry that you are receiving the silent treatment at the moment.

I think the bottom line is that I am not in a position to be in a relationship at all right now - too many other commitments. 

The occasional text is nice, but when it's 10 or more a day, on top of phone calls, and MSN messages and emails, and facebook messages it just becomes ...well, a bit overwhelming. Regardless of all the assurances I have given him in the past, it has never been enough, and it's got me all a bit worn down. I care about him, but I need a partner ( when I actually have the time to fit one in) and not someone else who needs taking care of too. He seems to think that everything will just work out fine if he moves in with me, and I do have to question whether he's considering his own kids in all this. They have been through alot and is it fair to them to move them away from their grandparents and other family? The kids were previously homeschooled & have found it difficult to adjust to the regular school system, although they finally seem to be settling. An additional difficulty in ending the relationship is the fact that his kids are somewhat emotionally attached to me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IC is an independent counselor, as opposed to a marriage counselor. A therapist for you.

Plan B is from Marriage Builders, it means that you cut off all ties with the other person so as to protect your well being. There's a method.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Would it be appropriate to sever the relationship by email/letter? If I speak to him by phone, I know it will get particularly emotional on his behalf. No matter how I broach the subject, it will not be something he will be willing to accept.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

I could see you needing to change the locks and get a restraining order. This man is seriously disturbed. What kind of a person decides to disobey STRICT court orders with his children involved?? It's not like 20 hours is a short drive.
It seems like you are caring more about his reaction, than regaining your independence. Dump him by letter, asking him not to contact you. Photocopy it, in case the police need to get involved.
Look into counseling. It would do you a lot of good. Trust me, I have one that I meet with twice a month. She helps so much!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Mrs. G: He didn't make the trip, presumably because the threat of doing so got him what he wanted - me to contact him. I believe he can apply to the court to take his children out of the province, but needs the courts permission, although he obviously was not going to get the courts permission for the threatened trip here. 

I honestly think I will need to get my locks changed, change my phone numbers, close my Facebook account or at least block him from Facebook and MSN. 

I've been reading alot about emotional dependency, and I think that is the situation I am in - he has said he can't live without me. Previously he has said he worries that when I haven't spoken with him for a few days, I am trying to find out if I can live without him.

I am hoping to start counselling again within the next couple of weeks, but agree that I need to separate myself from my BF before then. Yes, I am worried about his reaction but I need to steel myself to not give into manipulative tactics. I fear he will use his kids, his health, his family's liking of me...whatever he can dig up in order to try and persuade me otherwise.... 

But yep, have to do this for the sake of myself and my kids.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

You are one of the few people I've seen in my life who is actually taking clear, concise measures to BETTER HER LIFE. You are making sure you're going to be financially independent and secure, in order to support yourself and your children. So many people do NOT do this. You are to be commended for what you're doing. 

I was so relieved to see that you're wanting to break up with this man. He disturbs me to no small degree. You are absolutely right in wanting financial stability..you have 4 kids counting on you. And you will have to support yourself when those kids are grown. This man is an albatross, and I feel money would have been a constant issue with him, among many, MANY other things. 

There are so many red flags involving a relationship with this man. TOO many. Please...do everything you've said you want to do. He's not going to let you go easily. You can expect a barrage..an onslaught. You're going to have to be VERY strong to get this man out of your life. He needs serious help. I'm glad you've gotten to a place in life where you're more comfortable in letting him go. Please do so immediately.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Honestly, you need to cut ties with him immediately and definitively. You must tell him when you call or email that you will not house him if he shows up in an attempt to meet with you, that you will not answer or return calls, that you will block his emails and block him from FB, chat, etc., if he does not respect your DECISION to end the relationship. And be sure to let him know that you will call the police if he appears with his kids. That is such ridiculously manipulative crap and it says volumes about how unstable he is.

Do you realize how much trouble YOU can get into if you allow him to use you while breaking the law? He is a threat to you in so many ways--financial, legal, emotional. Please take seriously the advice you've been getting, get counseling to figure out why you have put up with all his crap as long as you have, and get on the road to recovery for yourself. With your ability to handle all that you have so far-divorce, 4 kids as a single mom nearly full time, and college, you must have some awesome skills. Get your emotional and mental health up to par with those amazing abilities, and you will be a MUCH happier person. 

Thank goodness there is a 20 hour trip between the two of you because he'd be a stalker and a serious threat, I suspect, if he lived closer. 

And if you decide to break up by phone, just accept that he is going to play on your weakness-your utter inability to ENFORCE your boundaries. Make breaking up with him the first time you do-no return calls, nothing. Change your number and block him as necessary if you must (remember, he can use other emails/phones to reach you if you block his number/email address, so be prepared to say, "I told you not to contact me" and hang up if he does. Also, if he contacts you by email, copy your attorney on your next email which repeats your desire for no contact and informs him that your attorney has been advised of your request and you will not respond to him again; your attorney will. Worth every penny of a retainer if that's what it comes to. 

I'm struggling with an extremely dependent ex and because we share children, I cannot just cut him out of my life. I wish I could, b/c that would be so much easier. And remember, you have had a long distance relationship with this person, so it's not like you've been living together for 10 years or something. He has no right to make the demands on you that he has--but then, you have let him. So toughen up, take control of this situation, and you will know you have done the right thing for you and your kids.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

So does anyone have a standard break up form letter I can fill out? :scratchhead:

I don't think I can do the phone breakup, even if that does seem like a bit of a cop out. Just think it will give him too much opportunity to make me feel even worse about this than I already do and he's not the sort of person who will wait to let his emotions spill over when the phone call ends - it'll all be out there. Okay, maybe I'm just chicken.

How much explanation do I give to him?


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Break up with him however you see fit. You have to do it with minimal damage to yourself. If an email works...send an email. Whatever works for YOU. Just make it to where you won't see his response.

You don't owe him any more than a "this isn't working out for me, I'm sorry and please move on" and be done with it. Actually the less you say, the better. He will just look at your reasons as excuses and try to prove otherwise. 

Just keep a watchful eye out. Thankfully he's 20 hours away, but I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a way to get to your neck of the woods. Sometimes they can be very determined. If he doesn't honor your request, or if he shows up...get a restraining order.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Ok...I did it...by email. Simple and to the point, stating relationship not working for me anymore, and it's over. Asked him to not contact me as I will not respond and to not make any attempt to come to my place. Wished him and his children well and stated that I hope they all get the help they need as a family to move forward.

Feeling...trepidatious,,,nervous, because I don't think he will just let it go instantly and will begin making efforts to contact me. Am deciding whether to unplug home phone, or just turn down volume and leave answering machine on...think unplugging may be the best option...or else I'll simply delete all messages that may be left without listening to them. Will either deactivate Facebook account for awhile or delete him from friends list as soon as I post this. Going to Hardware store for replacement deadbolt for front door ( even though I've asked him to return key). Steeling myself to not capitulate in any way.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I actually consider what you did to be brave. Too many posts here about similar situations where the poster is hammering away at wanting change, instead of just accepting that sometimes it's just not possible. You've actually paid attention to the major red flags, and I commend you for that. 

Now comes the time...you can expect that he's going to try to contact you. Take whatever measures you need to. Did I read that he had hacked into your facebook account at one point? Found out a friend's address and showed up? (sorry, I'd have to go back and re-read to make sure I've got the right person here) I'd delete that FB account. You don't want him attempting to hack into it again. You can always set up another account once the dust has settled.

Please be on your guard. I really believe this man has several screws loose and he's unhinged. If you happen to listen to any messages or read any, I would save each and every one of them. You might need to spy on him for awhile to see what his activites are, if that's possible. I wish you the best.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

9 emails and a ream of MSN messages later, and I have been able to resist responding. It's not been easy. I've swung from sadness to annoyance to guilt and back again. At the moment he is not saying angry things, but as I suspected, he is using guilt inducing tactics: his kids and their inevitable sadness, his enduring love for me, his heartbreak.... He's looking for reasons for me to have broken up with him: his ex getting in touch with me and spreading negativity; my ex "forcing" me to stop seeing him, the possibility that I might have failed my university test....so either outside factors or being coerced into ending the relationship, because I'm obviously not capable of making a decision like this on my own? Not once in any of these emails does there seem to be any hint that he thinks it might have anything to do with his behaviour...maybe that's where my touch of annoyance is coming from. Or it could be his attempts to make me feel responsible for potentially hurting his kids even more than they already have been.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"I am breaking up with you because you are pathologically unsafe to be around.

Please get professional help.

I can't help you; only a professional can help you."

If you feel indebted to answer at all, that is.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

More emails today, more MSN messages ( his MSN mow states he's the president of my fan club), a couple of text messages ( because I haven't changed my cell number yet - on the list for today). I still have made no response, because I feel any response at all will probably just encourage him to make even greater efforts at this point. Lots of talk from him about still planning on moving, getting a place for him & his kids, us still being friends, his kids asking about visiting on March Break because he thinks the court may give him permission to take the kids on a trip by then.... He keeps talking about how his kids want to move so they can leave their bad memories behind. 

Just kind of stressed about it all, even though I knew that he wouldn't just let things go graciously. Not sure what else - if anything else -I should do right now? Tired and not sleeping well. I don't want to move and don't really want to have to involve the police. Just wish he would accept that I've made a decision and that he should move forward with his life and let me move on with mine. 

How long will that take to happen though?


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

He's not going to go away without a fight. And of course it's something else that's caused you to break up with him...it couldn't POSSIBLY be him. 

Keep doing what you're doing. Unfortunately with men like this it's going to take some time before he gets it. Just know that *any* form of communication (other than what Turnera suggested) is going to be seen as a sign of hope for him. Keep hanging in there...he'll get the message eventually.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My ex followed me for 2 or 3 months after I broke up with him, before he finally gave up. Luckily, I worked with a bunch of guys, who started blocking me from him.

You can do it, just keep your eyes on the long term!


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

Thank you for all the messages of support. I know I am doing the right thing for myself and my kids.

However, from the emails and etc he is continuing to send, it seems he is making plans to come here over the March Break. I certainly don't want him appearing on my doorstep with his 3 kids in tow, so am wondering if I should break my no contact policy long enough to warn him that if he does show up, I will call the police. That if he continues to email and text me, I will seek a restraining order. That no contact means no contact.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would tell him.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Overwhelmed said:


> However, from the emails and etc he is continuing to send, it seems he is making plans to come here over the March Break. I certainly don't want him appearing on my doorstep with his 3 kids in tow, so am wondering if I should break my no contact policy long enough to warn him that if he does show up, I will call the police. That if he continues to email and text me, I will seek a restraining order. That no contact means no contact.


ABSOLUTELY YES. Have you kept records of the texts, emails, voicemails? I ask that because they are useful in getting a restraining order.

I decided not to post anything until I read this entire thread. You have minimized past behaviors from a guy who would have had me running for the hills the first time he started in with the manipulation/control tactics.

He's a stalker. He's NUTS. Yes, I'm being blunt here, but it's time to get this loon out of your life. YOU have a life, and you don't need someone who could be potentially dangerous to you or your children anywhere near your vicinity. 

Frankly, I'd get a restraining order in the works now - before he shows up in March. And don't think your telling him not to show up will stop him; it very well may not. 

I only had this situation crop up once in my life, when I met a guy through an online dating site. As soon as I saw that he had sent me *20* emails in one day demanding that I explain why I hadn't responded to his first email, I replied that I WOULD get the police involved, and use his emails as evidence. That ended the problem.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good idea, to do it now.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Well, he's obviously not paying any attention to your NC. Just going to do what he wants anyway. I'm in the camp of getting that restraining order now. And if he shows, call the police. I know you'd hate to do that with his kids there, but HE would be the one making that choice knowing the consequences. Going to have to play a bit of hardball with this one.


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## Overwhelmed (Apr 15, 2010)

I've kept all the texts and email messages. He has so far not actually telephoned.

I've sent the following reply to him :

"I am making one exception to my no response rule and one only and will ask you to please again respect my request for no contact.

If you are still planning on bringing yourself and the children to my place of residence, I would advise you that there is no welcome for you here. Furthermore, if you come to my home in direct disregard of my request to stay away, I will be forced to take legal action."


Hopefully this will have the desired effect, and he will see there is no sense in risking legal action which may have some possible effect on his current custody of his own children.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

When you emailed him breaking up, did you actually explain WHY? How he was bothering you, scaring you, etc.? If not, he's likely going crazy thinking you liked him one day and then suddenly you're gone.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Overwhelmed said:


> Furthermore, if you come to my home in direct disregard of my request to stay away, I will be forced to take legal action."
> 
> Hopefully this will have the desired effect, and he will see there is no sense in risking legal action which may have some possible effect on his current custody of his own children.


ARE YOU SERIOUS????? Lady, get a grip, okay? I am not one to come down like an anvil on someone, but you have given this guy enough hope, in the past, that he's waaaayyyy far beyond listening to reason.

Having read your posts, I can see that you minimize. You have also given him the green light in the past by actually paying him to come visit. And you think he is going to listen to what would be a threat to a sane person, as serious?

I don't know who needs more help here ... you or him! 

I have lived through this, and it took my ex-husband ONE time to block my exit at the front door of our home when I was leaving for me to get a restraining order within three days!

I don't think we should base our own safety, and that of our kids, on wishful, or hopeful, thinking. 

Get the doggone restraining order so IF he shows up it will be a done-deal.


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