# Separated wife only wants to be friends



## Andy101

Hi all.

If you have read my previous threads, you will know that my wife has given me a hard time since discovering porn on my phone and filing for divorce after years of feeling taken for granted. 

Well, I have moved out now, the divorce financial settlement has been agreed and my wife's attitude towards me has changed.
She now wants me to spend as much time with the kids as possible. We have been on days out as a family and she says things are so much better between us. I compliment her, which she likes but has told me that she just wants to develop a friendship with me and not a romance. She admits she would be lost without me but just wants us to have fun together as friends and to bring up the children together. 
I have told her that I respect her feelings but hope things will change in the future.....

Just so confused and lonely. I should be happy that things have improved but I want my wife back not a buddy I cans hare a few glasses of wine with. Am I being selfish? Should I just back down and embrace this new dynamic? Does she think that this will be enough for me or is she testing me to see if the changes are permanent? 

She was sad when I left the house, she sat there crying saying that although things had been difficult, I am all she knows. There is no OM and I'm not sure she would want me around so much if there was. I feel stuck in a place where I want her back and know I will have to wait for her feelings to change, but for how long? Is there a way forward for us without pushing her away?


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## farsidejunky

So basically she is getting her emotional needs met by you, without having to reciprocate.

That sounds like a pretty crappy arrangement. 

The irony is, likely the sooner you refuse that type of relationship and begin to move on, the sooner she will be willing to step out of her comfort zone with you. 

You may as well start doing it now. If she doesn't fight for you, it's not worth it for you anyway. If she does fight for you, then maybe you can begin to rebuild your relationship.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## tech-novelist

So she has friendzoned you.

Don't let her get away with that.


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## Cynthia

If she wants a divorce, that is understandable, but it is not reasonable for her to expect you to be there as you always have been as her husband. When you are no longer her husband, your relationship will change.

Let her see the changes in you are permanent. Let her know that you still care about her, but I think it's best that you do not tell her that you love her anymore or that you will always love her or anything like that. You could help her sometimes, but she shouldn't come to expect that you will always be there for her personally. Yes, you will be there for your kids - always, but not for her. She is not your wife. Yes, you messed up, but she has chosen to divorce. 

She may be willing to date you. If she is, I would recommend doing that and building a new relationship with her. Take it slowly as you would if you were dating someone new, because you are at square one now.

Like farsidejunky said, you don't want an unbalanced relationship where you are meeting her emotional needs, but she is not meeting yours. Relationships have to be balanced to work properly.


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## 3Xnocharm

Geez, you're STILL doing everything wrong! Stop kissing her ass, man up, and divorce her! The pathetic displays have got to stop. She will take advantage of you at every turn with no intention of being with you. So dont let her. Stop hanging out as a family and learn to do things on your own with your kids. End it with some dignity.


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## AVR1962

Trust was broken for your wife. This is what men do not understand. There is a huge sea of women out there and porn at your fingertips but when you engage in seeking a woman for your sexual pleasure whether it is fantasizing about the woman across the room or plugged into your phone watching porn videos or looking up naked pics of movie stars you are not putting the time and effort into your marriage. It is a betrayal. You were not being emotionally available to your wife as you were caught up in the fantasy of sexual thoughts with another woman. She wants to be friends for the sake of the family and she wants to keep that relationship good, does not want the fighting and the hardship and does not want her children pulled into the middle of an ugly mess between mom and dad. But she has emotionally detached in order to do this. She does not want to be close to you in an intimate way because she has been hurt by your actions. She does not want to involve herself emotionally with someone that she feels will betray her again.

Are you complimenting her and being nice to her to try to win her back? At this point, not knowing you or her or the situation, the only way you can win your wife back is to get some serious therapy for yourself and involve her in the process. If she sees you are serious about giving up the porn and seeking other women she "might" have a change of heart. The advantage you have right now is that she is still communicating with you and she is wanting the friendship, you share the children and that is all to your advantage but the big key here is you have to be willing to look in the mirror and face the reason why you were seeking the porn instead of being loving and engaging a relationship with your wife. If she believes that all you want from her, or other women, is sex she will remain emotionally distant to keep herself safe.


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## unbe

This is like groundhog day...

Brother, if you want to come here and vent thats fine. Your clearly not ready to take anyones advice yet.

When you get crushed again, and you will, we will be here to pick you up....


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I have told her that I respect her feelings but hope things will change in the future.....
> 
> Just so confused and lonely. I should be happy that things have improved but I want my wife back not a buddy


OP, I have not read your other threads (I will) but from just these few posts I think you might be a lot like me.

If you still love her and do not want to divorce her, then being around her afterwards as "friends" will be ongoing torture for you. DO NOT DO THAT TO YOURSELF. You will interpret almost anything as a signal that she wants to get back together with you. And you will be wrong every time.

I am going through a similar emotional situation with a woman. She wants to be friends. I do not want a buddy. I want more. But I will never get it. My only path is to stop being friends with her and I am currently able to do so. 

You must make a clean break and put her behind you, as painful and difficult as that will be. Go about a new life. Then in the future you MIGHT reconnect with your ex wife, but only then and only once you are no longer lonely, confused and needy.

It hurts bad. I know. Stay strong and keep posting. 

BTW, the cannot believe she would divorce you over JUST "discovering porn on my phone"


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## Andy101

Cynthiade...That is pretty much what is going on. 
She is hurt and has detached emotionally. She says that I am all she knows and would be very lost without me. As it stands, by going along with this arrangement, I get to see the kids when I want. I am totally involved. I will continue to 180 and show her that I am a better man and hope she opens her heart to me. I know this can't continue forever and I can't believe she would expect it to. She says she is done with men...but just wants me in her life. Problem is, I am not done with women and will want an intimate normal relationship at some point. 
All this is torture but I have no other choice right now. Once the divorce is finalised I will have to make a decision weather to keep going or move on. I did it before...when I told her I had a date...she suddenly wanted to work on the marriage. I don't think I would try that trick now as it could back fire and affect me seeing the kids. I am grateful that she is on good terms and even she says that things are looking good...but how can I progress from this?


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## Evinrude58

Dude,
I read all your old threads.

Your wife is telling you what you need to know. See your kids. Support them. Be a good man.
Treat your ex like you'd like to be treated.

But, get her out of your mind as far as a romantic partner. 

Yes, do all the things I've mentioned, and get yourself a nice girlfriend.

Your wife is NOT done with men. She's done with you. The quicker you accept this, the better. Getting yourself a girlfriend will not bother her if she's truly done with you. If it does bother her, then you can let it keep bothering her until she does something about it, like either asking you back or whatever. What are you going to do? Stay abstinent until she asks you back--/ which is unlikely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre*

I'd be friendly with her, for the sake of your kids, but I wouldn't sit around 'having a glass of wine' with her. It will only keep you confused. When people say 'I want to be friends,' it doesn't always mean as it sounds. It often just means that they have forgiven and are willing to be friendly ...and don't want to hold a grudge anymore. The other 'I want to be friends' mantra is given out by narcissists who don't mean it at all, and wish to keep the person on a string, yanking them to their every whim when it suits, and the person who is being yanked will oblige, because after all...they're ''friends.'' Not sure which category she fits into, but rarely do people who say 'i want to be friends,' in these types of situations, really mean that.  

Focus on making your life better, healing...and being your best self. Focus on your kids while doing so and build your own happiness. Only you can control your happiness.


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## the guy

*Deidre* said:


> I'd be friendly with her, for the sake of your kids, but I wouldn't sit around 'having a glass of wine' with her. It will only keep you confused. When people say 'I want to be friends,' it doesn't always mean as it sounds. It often just means that they have forgiven and are willing to be friendly ...and don't want to hold a grudge anymore. The other 'I want to be friends' mantra is given out by narcissists who don't mean it at all, and wish to keep the person on a string, yanking them to their every whim when it suits, and the person who is being yanked will oblige, because after all...they're ''friends.'' Not sure which category she fits into, but rarely do people who say 'i want to be friends,' in these types of situations, really mean that.
> 
> Focus on making your life better, healing...and being your best self. Focus on your kids while doing so and build your own happiness. Only you can control your happiness.


Worth repeating!!!


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## the guy

Back in the day when I had friends....some were happy for me when I found a romantic interest, and some were jealous....what kind of friend will your ex wife be when you find another romantic interest?

It's nice to have a friend to have a drink with, it's also nice to have a friend hand you a wrench when your doing your brakes, lending you a few bucks until pay day, and pick you and your date up when you both had to much to drink. And vise verse of.

So the question remains....does your ex old lady want to be friends or just friendly?


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## Andy101

Does she want to be friends or just friendly?
That is a good question. I'm not sure she knows herself. She says she wants to 'develop' a friendship.. which could mean that she needs to free herself of me in a romantic light and then become my buddy?!
She does need me as she has nobody to really speak to or support her..so in a way, this arrangement suits her but it also gives me access to the kids. 

I visited this evening because I finished work early and being my first day of a new job, I missed her and wanted to share my day. She was a little cold with me and said your here to see the girls...I thought oh ok and I left her alone. Maybe she was tired..I don't know but I thought..thanks for nothing. 

I like the idea of living my life for me and see if she worries about loosing me but I know that it could work against me. For now I don't have an alternative as I also have no friends or support locally. We built our marriage around the two of us and depended on one another. For her to file for divorce must have been a very decision. 

I now go to therapy, I have stopped all porn and enjoy every second I am with the kids. I don't know what else to do?


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## Chaparral

Do what single dads do.

Also read the MMSLP book below. Download it there or at amazon. You need to learn/relearn what it means to be a man.


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## Evinrude58

She is done with you Andy. You've got to accept it. 
She may say she wants to be friends one day, and tell you she only wants you to be involved with the kids and not speak to you the next.
When you move on and she sees it in your eyes, she may want back in, but doubtful. I assure you she isn't done with men.

I say this strictly for YOUR benefit: detach and move on before you have to see her with another man. 
Please, give up. Accept this.
Because there's nothing you can do about it. Only she can stop this, and women don't change their minds back to loving a guy very soon, if ever. It takes years, if it's even possible.
You have got to accept this divorce, or stay miserable. Great job on the porn and IC. But do it for you, not her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks

Why do you want your wife so badly, now? When you were living with her you evidently preferred porn and took her for granted. Is it the fact that she doesn't want you?

What your wife is proposing is ridiculous. She's scared that she won't find another mate so she'll just keep the old one around for her enjoyment but she won't have to worry about what he's up to because you're divorced.

She wants to develop a friendship with you. That's saying that she doesn't consider you a friend, now. Don't play these games. She either wants a divorce with all its bells and whistles or she wants to be married to you.


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## 225985

*Deidre* said:


> The other 'I want to be friends' mantra is given out by narcissists who don't mean it at all, and wish to keep the person on a string, yanking them to their every whim when it suits, and the person who is being yanked will oblige, because after all...they're ''friends.''


Andy, 

I have been a guy who (willingly) was kept on a string and yanked. I fell for my friend, and I still refuse to believe she did this intentionally but everyone else tells me otherwise. I still care for the person, just like you love your wife. I put myself in my situation and I am owning up. I own where I am. 

The others are right. She has not and will not give up men. I hated to listen to about my "friend"'s dates and I had fallen for her, one sided. Do you really think you can stomach hearing about your wife being with another man? She might tell you that she just "went on a date" or they are "just friends" when you know what they are doing. That will just kill you.

Do the 180 for yourself and your kids. Become a better man for yourself and your kids. Then you can go from there and see what happens.

Thanks to the TAMers I now know I have dishonored my wife. I will fix that. I am not there yet, but I know if I can get better, then you certainly can as you have shown more strength than I have.

Good luck Buddy.


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## Andy101

I have spent the last few days seeing the kids and getting on well with my wife. She seemed happy that I was around and felt that I was happier and the kids were happier too which pleased her. Problem is, I was trying to do a 180 but she now thinks that we are better as a family being apart and just meeting up for short periods! She feels that this is obviously the way forward for us. She thinks I have improved as a person and have worked on my issues and that it would not have happened whilst we were together! Now what? What have I done wrong to make her feel that this is the best option? 

Tonight though, as I was sitting with her, she said that she feels suffocated with me being around so much even though she had no problem with me going to the house! I thought things were "ok". I got up and left. She wants me to go and pick up our youngest tomorrow because she has to work. Felt like crap. I just can't get anywhere. She wants to be friends but keeps changing the rules. when previously she suggested we have film nights together...now she says it's too soon. Please help me figure out this limbo I am in.


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## Lostinthought61

Andy,

time to put your foot down, since you haven't since this has begun. your not her freaking lapdog, so stop acting like that...for god sake stop being at her every whine, tell her tomorrow won't work because you have things to do...you not her maid, her babysitter, her handyman, her butler...so stop acting like a freaking doormat and grow up.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I have spent the last few days seeing the kids and getting on well with my wife. She seemed happy that I was around and felt that I was happier and the kids were happier too which pleased her. Problem is, I was trying to do a 180 but she now thinks that we are better as a family being apart and just meeting up for short periods! She feels that this is obviously the way forward for us. *She thinks I have improved as a person and have worked on my issues and that it would not have happened whilst we were together! Now what? What have I done wrong to make her feel that this is the best option? *


Andy, you will never get anywhere with the approach you are taking. Stop *trying* to do the 180 and just DO IT. You are doing this for yourself, not to get your wife back. NEVER tell her you are working on your issues. That actually lowers her opinion of you and reminds her that your are defective. Just do it. 

You not only want your wife you NEED your wife. And as long as you NEED her you will never get her back. You need to 180 to help you get to the point that you no longer NEED her. And once you no longer need her, your head will be clear enough to decide if you really want her. Probably not at that point. If she comes back to you later, then you can decide what to do.

Looking for scraps or hidden meaning in what your wife says or does at this point will kill you AND you will be WRONG most of the time. Your wife has told you point blank it is not going to happen now- you will not stay together as a family. The "friend" game will not happen. As long as you are her "friend" you will never ever again be her lover. 

The short game will not work. Play the long game. Better yourself. At some later time R might be possible but it WILL NOT happen if you continue on your current path.


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## Steve1000

Andy101 said:


> Ipreviously she suggested we have film nights together...now she says it's too soon. Please help me figure out this limbo I am in.


I think that others have already helped you to figure out your "limbo". You happiness currently depends on the whims of your soon to be ex. Take back control of your own life, improve yourself, gain self-confidence, then meet new people.


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## 225985

blueinbr said:


> The short game will not work. Play the long game. Better yourself. At some later time R might be possible but it WILL NOT happen if you continue on your current path.





Steve1000 said:


> Take back control of your own life, improve yourself, gain self-confidence, then meet new people.


Andy, would you accept being apart from your wife for an entire year if it meant a chance to get her back? If yes, you need to mentally detach from her now. I will be extremely difficult, no doubt. But listen to @Steve1000. Take back control. As long as YOU LET your ex have the control you will never get her back and you will never emotionally move on.


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## Marc878

Ask yourself this. Why are you letting her control your life?

You need to get out and do your own thing. You're not a helpless puppy eating on her beck and call.

Cmon man.


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## Andy101

Yes you are all right. She messaged me to say sorry but that she felt uncomfortable with us sitting in front of the tv like old times....I didn't answer, little point. This situation could go on forever with her calling the shots. I just wanted to keep a relationship with her with the hope that she would see me differently but like Steve100 said, the short game will just keep the status quo as it is and will never change. In the end I will just feel like I am hanging around and not really wanted. I feel like a necessary inconvenience for the sake of the kids. Yesterday, nostalgically, she asked me why I wasn't wearing my wedding ring even though she removed hers months ago. She looks at me fondly but then feels like I am suffocating her...I need to back off or I will go insane playing these games.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Yes you are all right. She messaged me to say sorry but that she felt uncomfortable with us sitting in front of the tv like old times....I didn't answer, little point. This situation could go on forever with her calling the shots. I just wanted to keep a relationship with her with the hope that she would see me differently but like Steve100 said, the short game will just keep the status quo as it is and will never change. In the end I will just feel like I am hanging around and not really wanted. I feel like a necessary inconvenience for the sake of the kids. *Yesterday, nostalgically, she asked me why I wasn't wearing my wedding ring even though she removed hers months ago.* She looks at me fondly but then feels like I am suffocating her...I need to back off or I will go insane playing these games.


What was your response?

She wants a damn divorce. Give her one. She wanted space give it to her. Being a doormat has gotten you no respect. Can you not see this???????

You need to quit living in FEAR!!!!!! Of her. That's probably the single biggest reason she doesn't want you.

Go dark except for the kids. Find some things that you've always wanted to do. Start making a life for yourself. Yes it's gonna be hard but you gotta start somewhere.

I'd go out on a few dates. There is a world and another life out there.


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## Tron

She took her ring off months ago and is stringing you along. She sounds done with you except for how you can make her life easier.

You're being played. 

Have you read any of Athol Kay's books? If not, get started with Married Man Sex Life Primer. Don't wait.

Next time you get together, tell her it's time to set up standard visitation for the kids similar to what you guys would have in a divorce. Stop answering her texts except for those related to the kids. Stop doing things for her. Say no. Time to make it real.

Get out and use your free time like a single man. Cause that is what you are.


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## Tron

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/66220-losts-story-journal.html

Lots to learn.


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## Steve1000

Andy101 said:


> ...I need to back off or I will go insane playing these games.



Your wife told you what she wants and you need to take her word for it. Accept that it hurts and will hurt for awhile. You will have many sleepless nights, but during these nights, think about what you will do with your future. Think of some adventures you can have that you never had time to dream of. The world is available to you.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Yesterday, nostalgically, *she asked me why I wasn't wearing my wedding ring* even though she removed hers months ago. She looks at me fondly but then feels like I am suffocating her..


Wow Andy. Just Wow. She is being a manipulative ***** and enjoying it. She knows EXACTLY what she is doing.


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## Steve1000

Marc878 said:


> I'd go out on a few dates. There is a world and another life out there.


Good advice, except I think he might still be a little too emotionally fragile to try to date right now. Rejection would be very devastating right now.


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## 225985

Tron said:


> Have you read any of Athol Kay's books? If not, get started with Married Man Sex Life Primer. Don't wait.


:iagree::iagree:

His other great book is *The Mindful Attraction Plan. * Your wife is your energy vampire. Read the books in either order, but read them. (I would suggest read MAP first.) Step by step plan how to get rid of her from your life and take back control.


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## Andy101

She basically said that I had told her that I would keep it on because it was a sign of my commitment to her. After I moved out, I thought, it doesn't make any difference as she has not shown me anything positive. That is what I told her too. 

She likes having me around and being a good dad to the kids but needs space to breathe but with her it's all about developing a friendship over time. That is not what I wanted when I met her and I don't want that now. She always seems to talk to me like a teacher would a pupil...she is very matter of fact, she is a sales woman, very rational and has all the right answers. She actually believes in a new family dynamic where I live in my house and she lives in hers and we co parent as buddies. All insane stuff. 

If I met someone new, her bubble would burst like it did when we split up before. I met someone and she did a 180 in 24 hours....
This time there is a divorce in hand so I am not going to play games, just do the right thing by me and the kids.


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## Marc878

Steve1000 said:


> Good advice, except I think he might still be a little too emotionally fragile to try to date right now. Rejection would be very devastating right now.


Nothing serious at this point. I agree. Just a friend etc for coffee or lunch.


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## 225985

Andy,

It is telling that she noticed the ring missing. She was still manipulating you or testing you with her comment. 

Sales people manipulate. That is what they do. I was in marketing and working closely with sales for years with them under my guidance. Sales people know what to say to close the deal. She is trying to convince you to play by her rules for her benefit only. Make no mistake about that.

*Your best way to burst her bubble is to not play her game. * For starters, get your confidence up. Regardless of the current level you need it increased. Read Kay's books. You are not ready yet, but when you date, she will come around. She will try to manipulate you by throwing you some tidbits about being a family. Don't fall for that.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> She basically said that I had told her that I would keep it on because it was a sign of my commitment to her. After I moved out, I thought, it doesn't make any difference as she has not shown me anything positive. That is what I told her too.


Good answer!!! Do not put it back on.

She doesn't want you but doesn't want anyone else to have you either.

She wants you as a pet at her discretion

Read up and change your life. You can do this.
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=lDj_VOR_VVrC_.lxZQOIg0A0MqA-


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## jorgegene

I dont recommend any female 'friends' for a while.

besides the fact you are still technically married, not fair to someone you might meet.

Spend lots of time healing instead.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Yeah, we will see how you feel when she has you where she wants, starts dating and you become the friendship babysitter.

Yes, I know, you do not babysit your own kids will be brought up. Well, if she calls him out of the blue and just happens to need her "friend" to watch them on an out of the ordinary day, he is babysitting for a date.


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## AVR1962

Is she changing the rules or working thru her own process? I recall when my husband and I divorced many years ago that there was a time when we were getting along as friends too but that did not last. I think it it the emotions were are experiencing that play out and this is what you are seeing in her.


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## jsmart

You have to detach. That's what the 180 is for. If you're watching tv and drinking wine together, you're not implementing the 180. You're providing the emotional benefits of male companionship without getting anything in return. That will suck you dry.

Right now you need to concentrate on being a stronger version of yourself. No more obsession over your STBXW. Get her off the pedestal. You need to connect with some male friends. Get out and do activities. (not clubbing or bar hopping) Something that will help you reconnect with your inner warrior. Because right now you seem REALLY weak. 

Get your @ss in the gym. Maybe sign up for some martial arts training. In other words get in fighting shape. Also, make sure you're taking care of your appearance. Nothing will put a little bounce in your step, than liking what you see in the mirror. Get a flattering haircut. I'm not talking super cuts. Go to a good place and have the most flaming dude hook you up. Also make sure your hygiene is taken cared off. Women's sense of smell is more sensitive than a mans. And lastly make sure your gear is tight. Not talking metro sexual but don't be walking around like a people of Walmart poster child. 

In other words work on you. When the time is right, God will bring a woman into your path. Who knows, it could be your STBXW that you win over.


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## Andy101

Today I spent time with the kids. On my return to drop them home, my wife was a bit annoyed that I didn't reply to her appology last night. She said that she has only agreed to go out as a family in order to support me with the kids. She says it's not about 'us' right now. She feels uncomfortable atm for us to be spending time together alone. She also saud we need to restrict the amount of days I go to the house and see the kids....

That's ok with me. The pedastal is crumbling. I seem to treat her like she is the only woman that will ever have me. I haven't really dated or been involved with anyone else for 13 years. She is all I know and want. 

Her perception seems to be that she is not intending to date anyone else but expects the same from me. It' s almost as if she is playing a long game with me to see if her feelings change and she can test me along the way. God forbid if another woman came on the scene....it wouldn't even be factored into her plans....who knows..she may be relieved but I very much doubt it. She is a control freak, a planner with a bit if ocd. She likes familiarity and consistency and the girls are her world. Men generally piss her off, her longest relationship before me lasted 2 years. I need to detach for sure as nothing will change. She likes to know everything that I am doing...she can't handle me as a lone wolf. It's probably my greatest weapon in all this....I just need to figure how to use it.


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## farsidejunky

Has your wife always been controlling?

No more. Let your actions show she does not get to take from you without giving. No more, OP.

Let me acquaint you with three words that are powerful in get inn this situation corrected:

"No, thank you."

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> She also saud we need to restrict the amount of days I go to the house and see the kids....


Heck no. She is being manipulative again. Andy, are you not planning 50% custody?

Do not let her use the kids against you. She will "offer" you a few pity days to see the kids as a way to control you. If you start dating then - bam - suddenly your access is restricted. 

The days you spend with the kids are for you and them, not your wife. They are not HER kids that she is allowing you to see. They are YOUR kids too and you have equal right to see them equal time.


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## farsidejunky

blueinbr said:


> The days you spend with the kids are for you and them, not your wife. They are not HER kids that she is allowing to see. They are YOUR kids too and you have equal right to see them equal time.


QFT.


Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Marc878

180, 180, 180. Do it hard. You owe her no explanation. She wanted you out and space.

Give it to her. Become your own man. This maybe good for you long term.


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## jsmart

Several TAMers have recommended MMSL primer. I'm going to strongly agree with them. This is a how to on becoming a better man, so you can be a better husband. The thinking is that as you become a better catch, the married man's sex life with his wife will improve but if not, you're in a position to end it with confidence that you'll be a catch for someone else. 

In a marriage or LTR, this is something you can't fake. You can fake it until you make it with a STR. Because she doesn't know you that well. So impressing her would be easy but a wife of many years is different. She knows the real you. They won't be fooled by turning things around for a few weeks. When a wife pulls away, it takes a lot of effort to win them back. 

Right now your wife is pulling away. She smells your neediness a mile away. Remember this woman knows you. Another guy can pull the same moves that you're doing and she would eat it up but coming from you, it comes across as weakness, which everyone knows repulses women. 

You have to remember to not project what you want and think she wants the same. You want kindness, sweetness and that soft feminine smile that says everything is perfect as long as I'm with you. Her? She doesn't want that. She needs to see you strong, self sufficient and not trying to use the kids as a way to weasel up to her. 

Like I said in my last post, you must work on being the best version of yourself. It must be done for you. If you win her back, awesome. If not you still must go forward. Growing up in a broken home, your kids will need a strong father more than ever.


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## Andy101

I think half of my problem right now is the intense lonliness that I'm feeling. Even when I'm with the kids alone. Everyone I know is married and although they are supportive, when I go back to the room I am renting, I have to get in the car and go for a drive as I can't stand it. 

Yes I do weasel up to her when I see the kids. She must sense that. That's why she says that right now, it's about the kids. I have got the primer and have read it. But it seems to concentrate on still being in a relationship. 

My wife took a photo of me yesterday while we were all out....I look weak. There is a complete resignation about me like I haven't slept for weeks. I am smiling but there is sadness in my eyes. I miss my wife so badly that I don't know how to break the cycle I am in.

She messages me now and then during the day and sends me photos of what the kids are doing. I appreciate it..she must be lonely too sometimes. She thinks leaving me has done me good.....how?


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## Evinrude58

What she is doing is cruel. If she wants you gone, she should treat you like you have the plague. What she is doing is the worst thing someone can do. It's as bad as cheating almost. Letting you see and hear her just enough not to detach. 
Keeping you on the hook. 
You truly need to stop seeing her and having no contact. This is making you crazy. It did me.

Find out what makes you happy alone and stick with that until you're well. You will know you are well when you can see her and it doesn't hurt. You cannot get better without pain. But if you will force yourself to give up and move on, you WILL heal.
Please put the pirn behind you. I never had a problem with it, but I do not look at that stuff anymore. It's bad for one's mind and health, as you know. 
You can be one a man lots of women would want, if you try.
What your wife is doing to you is wrong. Don't let her keep it up. Take your life back. You can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I think half of my problem right now is the intense lonliness that I'm feeling. Even when I'm with the kids alone. Everyone I know is married and although they are supportive, when I go back to the room I am renting, I have to get in the car and go for a drive as I can't stand it.
> 
> Yes I do weasel up to her when I see the kids. She must sense that. That's why she says that right now, it's about the kids. I have got the primer and have read it. But it seems to concentrate on still being in a relationship.
> 
> My wife took a photo of me yesterday while we were all out....I look weak. There is a complete resignation about me like I haven't slept for weeks. I am smiling but there is sadness in my eyes. I miss my wife so badly that I don't know how to break the cycle I am in.
> 
> She messages me now and then during the day and sends me photos of what the kids are doing. I appreciate it..she must be lonely too sometimes. She thinks leaving me has done me good.....how?


Andy, @Evinrude58 is right. Your wife is being cruel and she knows EXACTLY what she is doing. Do not think that "she must be lonely too". You will never get out of this if you hold on to that hope. Not going to happen unless YOU CHANGE.

I just read your very two first posts and I am pissed. She is a manipulative ***** (or whatever slang you use in UK). She dated (and slept with) other guys, did cocaine, sent pictures of herself to other guys - in bikini and probably without. Jeez.

Your ONLY way out of this is to build your confidence and raise your sex market value. As long as you are needy she will control you. Your first two posts (I will read the rest later) indicate she flips out when you have attention of other women. That should be your game. She will control you without end to make sure that does not happen. 

She is hot and in Sales. She is used to dealing with confidence men, power people, deciders. That is what she finds attractive. A confident man. 

Oh, and she was doing porn too. So quit thinking that the divorce is caused by porn or you raising your daughter not to be just like her.

Do you know why she hated the porn? Because it was focusing your attention on other women and not her. She is attention needy.

Try Kay's Mindful Attraction Plan. You need to get to Phase 7, life without your wife. 

Andy, it is going to be darn fracking difficult, lonely and hurting. But you can and will get through this. The most important thing is to stick with the schedule you set with wife. Be with kids on your night. DO NOT be the sudden babysitter when she has a date. Believe, she will HATE it when she calls you to babysit and you say you cannot be cause you already have plans. She will pump you to find out what and with whom.

Remember, play the long game. No woman wants a weasel. Be the alpha male lion. 

BTW, just try telling her you want to speed up the divorce because you met a "friend" and it is unfair to your friend for you to date her while still married. But before you do that, go out and really make friends. No making up stories. Go have your life.


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## bandit.45

Your wife has no moral high ground. She has done far worse to you than you did to her. I don't get it. I don't know why you don't tell her to go fvck herself and that you expect to get the kids half the time or you will get the courts involved. Fvck that bullsh!t. Stop being her doormat. She wipes her feet all over you and enjoys it.


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## 225985

bandit.45 said:


> kids half the time


Did I miss something? Is Andy NOT already having the kids half time, now and future?

If anything the kids need HIM more than HER. She will make the kids into copies of her dysfunctional self unless he is in their lives at least 50% time.

ETA: Andy, the more time the kids spend with "mom" the more your wife will turn them against you - especially once you show signs of increased value and start dating.


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## Blondilocks

Wearing the ring was a sign of your commitment to her? Your commitment. That's why she's got you by your short hairs and is shaking the stuffing out of you.

She knows she's in the driver's seat and is seeing just how fast you can run. There is a slightly cloying feeling that this is part of her revenge. You must have really ticked her off with the porn.

So, tell us, why did you continue with the porn as it is usual for the woman to warn the man first. Are you still watching porn? Your wife may not feel safe with you, yet.


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## jsmart

Andy101 said:


> I think half of my problem right now is the* intense lonliness that I'm feeling*. Even when I'm with the kids alone. Everyone I know is married and although they are supportive, when I go back to the room I am renting, I have to get in the car and go for a drive as I can't stand it.
> 
> Yes I do weasel up to her when I see the kids. She must sense that. That's why she says that right now, it's about the kids. I have got the primer and have read it. But it seems to concentrate on still being in a relationship.
> 
> My wife took a photo of me yesterday while we were all out....*I look weak. There is a complete resignation about me like I haven't slept for weeks. I am smiling but there is sadness in my eyes.* I miss my wife so badly that I don't know how to break the cycle I am in.
> 
> She messages me now and then during the day and sends me photos of what the kids are doing. I appreciate it..she must be lonely too sometimes. She thinks leaving me has done me good.....how?



Damn Bro, I feel the pain in your words. Sending you a virtual man hug. I don't know if you believe in God, but in a situation like this, crying out for strength can get you through it. I know that in the low points in my life, getting on my knees in asking for forgiveness for what I've done and seeking his wisdom has gotten me through some really dark times in my life. 

I don't want to sound preachy because this ain't that type of forum but put God first in your life, the rest will fall into place. Get busy working out. Make sure you're sleeping and eating quality food. Do this for you and your kid. She needs a strong daddy now more than ever.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> I think half of my problem right now is the intense lonliness that I'm feeling. Even when I'm with the kids alone. Everyone I know is married and although they are supportive, when I go back to the room I am renting, I have to get in the car and go for a drive as I can't stand it.
> 
> Yes I do weasel up to her when I see the kids. She must sense that. That's why she says that right now, it's about the kids. I have got the primer and have read it. But it seems to concentrate on still being in a relationship.
> 
> My wife took a photo of me yesterday while we were all out....I look weak. There is a complete resignation about me like I haven't slept for weeks. I am smiling but there is sadness in my eyes. I miss my wife so badly that I don't know how to break the cycle I am in.
> 
> She messages me now and then during the day and sends me photos of what the kids are doing. I appreciate it..she must be lonely too sometimes. She thinks leaving me has done me good.....how?


You're weak because you're on the breadcrumb diet. You know deep down what you need to do here. No one is gonna do it for you.

I do hope you find your way


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## Andy101

blueinbr you are right in a lot of ways about her.

She needs attention, she recently asked me if I was still attracted to her.
She said in the heat of the moment when I was still looking to move that we will never get back together now...because I am a ditherer! She wants an assertive and confident man.
When my counselor suggested I date other women, and I told her...she turned pale and looked uncomfortable.
The porn was a big threat as she felt I was cheating on her hundreds of times and that she couldn't compete. 
When I turned up to see the kids this week looking smart from work, I could see her checking me out...

Is she testing me? Has she got a game plan to see if I man up? She doesn't mention our marriage anymore or the porn. She knows I quit looking at that but she also knows that I love her and finds comfort in that. But....she gives me nothing back emotionally...does she really believe in her twisted fantasy that I would worship her for eternity?


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## bandit.45

Is she still sleeping around with other guys?


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## 225985

Andy Man, this is tough. @jsmart is right. Virtual hug to you.

So, what is your plan here? Not the plan to get her back, but the plan for the separation and divorce and custody of the kids. Forget what wife wants. What is that you will insist upon? 

There is no limbo allowed. If this separation continues it moves to divorce - at YOUR insistence. Any prolonged separation - wife gets house and kids 90% of time, you live in rental with kids two nights a week - is not going to cut it. 

Put all your chips in. Go to war with your STBXW over the assets and kids. Not in a revenge or vindictive way, but for equal assess to the kids. Right now your wife has nothing to lose as she knows you are kept at bay by her manipulation. When she realizes that her bubble and her plans for this are threatened by this now dominant man, she will react. 

I don't buy this cheating on her a hundred times crap. It is internet porn. As long as you were not cheating her out of sex by doing it, it is survivable. Did I read that sex dropped off to almost zero? No wonder you watch porn. Many or most guys do. Porn built the VHS industry and much of the early internet.

She asked you if you were still attracted to her? Really?? WTF?? BTW, what did you say?

Yes, she is testing you with EVERYTHING she does. If she wants divorce then she should have moved right away or follow whatever are the UK laws. Preempt her by filing for divorce now and 50% custody AND the house. 

Yes you are going to date other women. If nothing else just for coffee. Play it low key and tell them up front you are separated and moving towards divorce. If they reject you it is because you have too much current baggage (still married, right) not because of you.

Not sure what you told the counselor to make her turn pale. Does not matter.

So again, what is your plan? Long game, right? Fight for your kids! THAT is the kind of man, the only kind of man, your wife respects. 

Print out the divorce papers or get a UK lawyer to draft them. Then present wife with YOUR separation demands, show her the papers, and if she does not agree, you file. Do you know what her first reaction will be - respect for you. Remember, divorce papers does not mean divorce. YOU can stop the process at any time. 

Good luck, eat well, and work out at the gym. Other than the kids and your job, that is you top priority.


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## Andy101

Well, She already filed in January. We have agreed terms and I will continue to pay half the mortgage as to keep the kids at home and get a good return when I decide to sell. We have 50% joint custody and she doesn't want anything from me except maintenance for the kids. She said in the papers that I was addicted to porn. BS but I accepted as in the uk it would take two years separation before you can even apply for divorce! I thought that if it is over and she doesn't want me, better to be free sooner rather than later. Also, I would see if she is serious about following it through. 

She kept saying that I had everything and blew it...She did too but threw it away...or has she?


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## jsmart

Andy101 said:


> blueinbr you are right in a lot of ways about her.
> 
> She needs attention, she recently asked me if I was still attracted to her.
> She said in the heat of the moment when I was still looking to move that we will never get back together now...because I am a ditherer! She wants an assertive and confident man.
> When my counselor suggested I date other women, and I told her...she turned pale and looked uncomfortable.
> The porn was a big threat as she felt I was cheating on her hundreds of times and that she couldn't compete.
> *When I turned up to see the kids this week looking smart from work, I could see her checking me out...
> *
> *Is she testing me? Has she got a game plan to see if I man up? She doesn't mention our marriage anymore *or the porn. She knows I quit looking at that but she also knows that I love her and finds comfort in that. But....she gives me nothing back emotionally...does she really believe in her twisted fantasy that I would worship her for eternity?


She's not into you. She just doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy so she throws you a little bit of pity friendship. 

We've all been telling you. Transform yourself. Make an achievable but challenging goal. It takes 40 weeks from inception to birth to create a new life. Make a promise to yourself that in 40 weeks, you'll do... Not for the wife but for you.

Prove to yourself that you're not done. Start watching movies, reading books and listening to music to inspire your inner warrior. You can become something more. You have to do it for you. Even if you divorce, you can probably win her back but you have to willing let her go. If she's meant for you, God will open that door but you have to do the work.


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## Cynthia

blueinbr said:


> I just read your very two first posts and I am pissed. She is a manipulative ***** (or whatever slang you use in UK). She dated (and slept with) other guys, did cocaine, sent pictures of herself to other guys - in bikini and probably without. Jeez.


Is this correct, Andy? This changes how I view your situation. You seem to be taking all of the blame for the marriage problems, when you were viewing porn. Compared to what your wife has done, that's nothing.
It would help if you were to stick to one thread and you explained your situation more fully, so you will get posts based on the full story rather than just part of it. You could just stick with this thread and add anything new as it comes up. The same people will stick with you then.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Well, She already filed in January. We have agreed terms and I will continue to pay half the mortgage as to keep the kids at home and get a good return when I decide to sell. We have 50% joint custody and she doesn't want anything from me except maintenance for the kids. She said in the papers that I was addicted to porn. BS but I accepted as in the uk it would take two years separation before you can even apply for divorce! I thought that if it is over and she doesn't want me, better to be free sooner rather than later. *Also, I would see if she is serious about following it through. *
> 
> She kept saying that I had everything and blew it...She did too but threw it away...or has she?


So basically you are letting her call all the shots with your life and future. Maybe she won't divorce me and I can go back to the doormat life?????

Why didn't you put her sh!t in the divorce papers? 

You really need to wake up. How in the hell do you live like this????


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## Evinrude58

He was doing the porn and not having sex with her, if I recall correctly, and she is right to be pissed about that.
But what we appear to have is a master manipulator. She gives him just enough to let him hang himself.
Your only choice here is to detach and start seeing a female friend. 
She will detect both and probably come back. Do you want her after all this? Coca ine and other men is not attractive to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Well, She already filed in January. We have agreed terms and I will continue to pay half the mortgage as to keep the kids at home and get a good return when I decide to sell. We have 50% joint custody and she doesn't want anything from me except maintenance for the kids. She said in the papers that I was addicted to porn. BS but I accepted as in the uk it would take two years separation before you can even apply for divorce! I thought that if it is over and she doesn't want me, better to be free sooner rather than later. Also, I would see if she is serious about following it through.
> 
> She kept saying that I had everything and blew it...She did too but threw it away...or has she?


Are the papers legally signed already? So she gets to stay in the house, you pay for half the house and 100% for another place to live and pay maintenance on the kids? I thought she has a good paying job. If 50% custody you eat pay maintenance on the kids. Is it too late to change the papers? 

So what have you agreed to? Legal separation? When does divorce come into play. And don't let her put porn in the papers. I thought you did porn because she would not have sex with you.


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## Andy101

Without porn addiction on the petition, there was no case for divorce which would mean a no fault divorce that would require two years separation. She went for the kill and filed within four days of discovering the porn which means she had planned it all months before. She felt un appreciated, taken for granted....but hardly spoke to me of an evening just ranted in text messages about leaving which I hoped would stop. The petition is signed and we are going through the financial arrangements. I have agreed to pay half the mortgage because I can afford it but I can pull out of the deal giving three months notice. If a jackass came on the scene...I could force a sale if he moves in. The divorce could be finalised by September. She isn't interested in saving the marriage ATM as she has this fixed belief that we co parent apart and everything will be happy!?


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Without porn addiction on the petition, there was no case for divorce which would mean a no fault divorce that would require two years separation. She went for the kill and filed within four days of discovering the porn which means she had planned it all months before. She felt un appreciated, taken for granted....but hardly spoke to me of an evening just ranted in text messages about leaving which I hoped would stop. The petition is signed and we are going through the financial arrangements. I have agreed to pay half the mortgage because I can afford it but I can pull out of the deal giving three months notice. If a jackass came on the scene...I could force a sale if he moves in. The divorce could be finalised by September.* She isn't interested in saving the marriage ATM as she has this fixed belief that we co parent apart and everything will be happy!?*


She's banking on controlling your life to suit her needs.

You need to show her she's wrong.

Next time she invites you over tell her you have plans.

Text only. Do not jump and answer her calls and texts. And only those that deal with the children.

You can man up and do this. Take control of your life.


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## aine

I find this thread interesting in so much as many of the males on here are telling Andy to get rid of the STBXW, how dare she mess with your mind, your future, string you along, etc.
In addition, Andy you are still very self centered, it is all about you, how you feel, your loneliness, your missing your family, how she strings you along, etc. 
I in no way want to minimise your feelings and do not lack empathy for you but tbh, you created this scenario yourself.
Did you stop to think of the damage you caused your marriage relationship with the viewing of porn, did you stop to think of how your STBXW felt when you chose OW (albeit porn) over her, did you stop to think of the loneliness she felt, the hurt, the betrayal? I don't think so and it is evident you are still thinking all about yourself. Even now you still try to shoulder your STBXW with the responsibility for how you feel, it is not her job to give a damn about you as a person, only in so far as you are the father of the kids, and the faster you get that into your head the better for all concerned.

Your STBXW knows you better than anyone else and probably knows that you are still self centered, still the same man who created the mess. She has to cut you out to protect herself, she is being nice to you for the sake of the kids, the family (we women will put our kids and their happiness before even our own), yet all you can think about is how you feel. The selfishness that led you to do what you did to your STBXW is still very much there and until you weed it out, nothing will change.

I would say it is time to face your weaknesses, acknowledge you destroyed your marriage and family life, you cannot now expect anything from your STBXW. Instead of sinking into the pit of self-pity, pull yourself together and become a better man, a man your kids could be proud of. Leave your wife alone to lick her wounds and do what she needs to do to move on.


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## aine

Andy101 said:


> Without porn addiction on the petition, there was no case for divorce which would mean a no fault divorce that would require two years separation. She went for the kill and filed within four days of discovering the porn which means she had planned it all months before. She felt un appreciated, taken for granted....but hardly spoke to me of an evening just ranted in text messages about leaving which I hoped would stop. The petition is signed and we are going through the financial arrangements. I have agreed to pay half the mortgage because I can afford it but I can pull out of the deal giving three months notice. If a jackass came on the scene...I could force a sale if he moves in. The divorce could be finalised by September. She isn't interested in saving the marriage ATM as she has this fixed belief that we co parent apart and everything will be happy!?


See, you are still making excuses. I cannot believe that a person can see his STBX wife's faults so clearly but not his own.

Your wife knew long before she discovered the porn that your heart, mind and soul was not with her and you were 'giving' them to someone or something else. 
To live in that limbo not knowing is excruciating for your wife, she knew that she had 'lost' your love to something else. Yes, she probably thought long and hard about what was the best thing to do.
You simply dismiss what went before the discovery, for her it probably was a long list of hurt, lonely nights, confusion, distrust, bitterness, resentment, etc. Those you don't even consider.

Please note, very rarely do wives with children dump all (also with no third party involved) until they feel they can take no more, no more pain, no more lies, no more lack of trust. You pushed her to the wall and she filed because she wanted to get away from the very man who promised to love her and cherish her but instead did the opposite.
So can you see now, when a woman threatens to leave over a period of time, they are telling you that something is terribly wrong and if you do not make it right it will come to pass. You didn't make things right, you only cared about how it would affect you. So reaching the point where she thought you would not change, she made the decision to put distance between you and she was right to, because your addiction would have ultimately destroyed her and it was highly unlikely you would have listened to her pleas anyhow. Ask yourself what would it have taken for you to change? 

Too many men, do not listen until the house falls down, their wives cry out for understanding, for a change in how they are treated but selfishness ensures they are ensnared until the wife makes a bid for freedom. So stop the rationalizing and minimizing and the blaming of her. Your victim hood does not suit you. You have only yourself to blame for this.

Go to your therapist and look at yourself, what you have done, make a reckoning of the damage you have caused, why you did it, why you now want your family and wife when you were prepared to let it all go belly up.
Your wife will have to deal with her own demons, leave her be to do that. You are far from being the man you could be, go work on yourself and stop trying to place the blame for the demise of the marriage on her, it falls squarely on your shoulders.


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## SadandAngry

Andy101 said:


> I like the idea of living my life for me and see if she worries about loosing me but I know that it could work against me.



You don't seem to know anything of any actual value to you. There is no possible way starting to live your life for yourself could work against you. None. So do it. What do you think is the worst that could happen?


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## Andy101

I hear what aine is saying and it's true. I did mess up. I hurt her over a period of time and now she has pulled away. She wants to be happy and free of the worry about us. She can't concentrate on me ATM and just wants me to be a good dad. I have no problem with that because I know how she feels. I am at least glad she is talking to me and we are on friendly terms. She knows how remorsful I am. I own what I put her through. She is well aware that I know what I did to her. I go to therapy..I stopped the porn..I am a better dad, I improved my career. She is proud of me for what I have done and can see that I am a better person....but it doesn't change how she feels right now so she keeps me at a distance but just enough to leave the door open..I hope. 

My selfishness as aine puts it, doesn't help me get through each day. I still have to function and live with my guilt for my actions. I will still rationalise what is happening and still look for a solution. I can't help that...I am human but I still love my wife and am learning from my mistakes.

I hope that everything I am doing will make her see me differently at some point. Maybe she already does but is holding back for her own protection. It just kills me to not know if there is a future for us..but I will have to live with that.

People on here mention other men or her dating...she isn't interested. She just wants to be happy with the kids and doesn't see any other guy as a solution. I was the man she invested in and I let her down. Why would anyone else be different? 

I just need to get to a place where I am strong enough and confident enough to woo her back. She would spot BS a mile away. Just struggling to get moving....


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## Evinrude58

And the only way you will get "strong enough" is to accept she's done with you and move on. You won't accept it, and it's killing you. She isn't helping you accept it.

I believe you should have no contact other than what kids require. No chat, no answering texts about in-kid related stuff.
Just do your thing and forget her. 

She has filed for divorce. She has gotten you out of the house.

If you let her keep stringing you along, it will break you. If you leave her alone and let her have time to miss you a little, and see what it's like to have you out of her life, she might change her mind--- but that is so rare it's not worth hoping for.

So your thing. Get a friend like your therapist suggested. Of you keep this up, I can guarantee you will be unhappy and she will be completely done.

You don't want to be friend zoned--- don't let her do that to you.

And, aine is right about a lot. But your wife is no angel. But if a woman has a man that won't have sex with her---- that's a problem she will remedy just like a man would.

Yes, she probably is totally untrusting of your changes. Probably the smart thing.

Show her you've changed by moving on and maybe you'll have a chance, or at the same time, you'll be preparing yourself for a new life without her.
She thinks you can't do it, just like you couldn't break the porn addiction. Show her she's wrong about one, maybe she'll feel she might be wrong about both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

aine said:


> I find this thread interesting in so much as many of the males on here are telling Andy to get rid of the STBXW, how dare she mess with your mind, your future, string you along, etc.





Evinrude58 said:


> And the only way you will get "strong enough" is to accept she's done with you and move on. You won't accept it, and it's killing you. She isn't helping you accept it.
> 
> If you let her keep stringing you along, it will break you.
> You don't want to be friend zoned--- don't let her do that to you.


 @aine The males are just calling what they see. As OP described, his wife dated and slept with other men, did cocaine, is very controlling, drinks heavily and smokes weed nearly daily. She is intolerant of any attempts by OP to raise this daughters properly. That said, she is free to end the marriage. Yes, she is manipulating him and knows she is doing it. That is just cruel. 

@Evinrude58 post is spot on. Great summary and great advice

Andy, That friendzone spot will kill you. I spent two years there. Don't go there. Please don't go there. I listened to my friend tell me about her dates and the sex she had. It was like a punch in my stomach each time. You cannot be "friends" with your EX. You can be her lover or her EX, not friends.

Please get out of your head that she will not date again. You might start to feel better in a few months, but once you hear from your kids that your wife is dating, you will sink back lower than you are now. You told us your wife already dated MEN when you separated before. Now you will be divorced. Your wife craves attention. She WILL date. I am sorry. That hurts. If she says she has no interest in men, she is either lying or in denial. She will find a new partner. So will you.

We are somewhat alike in our emotions and in our relationships. I wish we could meet at the pub for a few pints and talk. You need friends. Make it a priority to make new friends. You need that. 

Are you eating better and working out? We will kept telling you to do that because it is REALLY important.


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## Marc878

If you want her back being at her beck and call isn't going to do it.

Show her you're fine without her. Be your own man.


----------



## Cynthia

@ Andy101, Is there are reason why you won't address whether your wife has been faithful or is/was a cheater?


----------



## Andy101

CynthiaDe....I don't discuss her previous behaviour because I don't feel it is relevant anymore. She has changed since then. 

But for the record, we separated because again she felt unappreciated and neglected. Porn was not an issue, she had a kind of mid life crisis where she wondered if the grass was greener. It wasn't. Her personality changed, she would dress provocatively and go looking for attention. She wasn't herself. She had issues wich she attempted to solve and although it was difficult watching other men have her, I stayed strong and she realised that she didn't want to loose me to another woman. 

The woman I see now, is not the same as back then. She is older and feels less attractive and doesn't want complications in her life. She works hard and looks after the children. She doesn't dress very well anymore and takes little pride in her appearance. She just wants to be a mom and says that no man is going to be a pot of gold. She needs me but can't be married to me so sees the only solution right now for our family is, in time, to be good friends and look out for each other. 

That is why I don't think that she is cheating or intends to see anyone else. It's sad to look at her so heart broken. She is just doing what she can to keep some form of family dynamic. 

I may be selfish in wanting more but why wouldn't I? She says that I had everything and I get it. I see what I have lost. I want the years of lost intimacy, I want to be the man she says I could have been. It's so hard.

So me or her dating someone else would only hurt our family more. There is no sparkle in her eyes, just an exhausted woman who has to juggle everything on her own. Yes it is her choice and I try and help where I can with the kids but her wanting to date another man? ....no chance.


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## farsidejunky

I think you are giving her entirely too much credit in the "emotional stability" department.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> CynthiaDe....I don't discuss her previous behaviour because I don't feel it is relevant anymore.* She has changed since then. *
> 
> But for the record, we separated because again she felt unappreciated and neglected. Porn was not an issue, *she had a kind of mid life crisis* where she wondered if the grass was greener. It wasn't. Her personality changed, *she would dress provocatively and go looking for attention.* She wasn't herself. She had issues wich she attempted to solve and although it was difficult *watching other men have her,* *I stayed strong and she realised that she didn't want to loose me to another woman. *
> 
> The woman I see now, is not the same as back then. She is older and feels less attractive and doesn't want complications in her life. She works hard and looks after the children. She doesn't dress very well anymore and takes little pride in her appearance. She just wants to be a mom and says that no man is going to be a pot of gold. She needs me but can't be married to me so sees the only solution right now for our family is, in time, *to be good friends and look out for each other. *
> 
> That is why I don't think that she is cheating or intends to see anyone else. It's sad to look at her so heart broken. She is just doing what she can to keep some form of family dynamic.
> 
> I may be selfish in wanting more but why wouldn't I? *She says that I had everything and I get it. I see what I have lost.* I want the years of lost intimacy, I want to be the man she says I could have been. It's so hard.
> 
> So me or her dating someone else would only hurt our family more. There is no sparkle in her eyes, just an exhausted woman who has to juggle everything on her own. Yes it is her choice and I try and help where I can with the kids but her wanting to date another man? ....no chance.


Sorry Andy but I have to say this. I know you still love your wife and I do not want to disrespect you. But......Your wife was a whoring **** and you took her back. And she has the nerve to say that YOU had it all and You caused you to lose it all? That is a load of crap. 

She is going to date other guys. You better learn to accept that. 

You are quite a catch yourself. Emotionally you are not ready but there will be many quality woman who will be interested in you if you shed the porn habit.


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## Tron

Your W is a fruitcake.

And you are making excuses for her.

Why don't you talk to us about her Family of Origin (FOO). I think that will be eye opening and will explain a lot.

How about yours?


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## Hopeful Cynic

Andy101 said:


> She needs attention, she recently asked me if I was still attracted to her.
> She said in the heat of the moment when I was still looking to move that we will never get back together now...because I am a ditherer! She wants an assertive and confident man.
> When my counselor suggested I date other women, and I told her...she turned pale and looked uncomfortable.
> The porn was a big threat as she felt I was cheating on her hundreds of times and that she couldn't compete.
> When I turned up to see the kids this week looking smart from work, I could see her checking me out...
> 
> Is she testing me? Has she got a game plan to see if I man up? She doesn't mention our marriage anymore or the porn. She knows I quit looking at that but she also knows that I love her and finds comfort in that. But....she gives me nothing back emotionally...does she really believe in her twisted fantasy that I would worship her for eternity?


She no longer wants a sexual/romantic relationship with you. But she'll be damned if anyone else can take over that role! She's allowed to move on, but you are supposed to pine after her forever.

It's a power trip. Plus, it's also useful to her to have you keep doing all those 'honey-do' type chores.

She's not testing you. She's using you.



Andy101 said:


> I just need to get to a place where I am strong enough and confident enough to woo her back. She would spot BS a mile away. Just struggling to get moving....


No, you need to get to a place where you are strong enough and confident enough to not want her back.

You have to do it for you, not for her. That's the only way it won't be BS.


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## aine

Andy101 said:


> I hear what aine is saying and it's true. I did mess up. I hurt her over a period of time and now she has pulled away. She wants to be happy and free of the worry about us. She can't concentrate on me ATM and just wants me to be a good dad. I have no problem with that because I know how she feels. I am at least glad she is talking to me and we are on friendly terms. She knows how remorsful I am. I own what I put her through. She is well aware that I know what I did to her. I go to therapy..I stopped the porn..I am a better dad, I improved my career. She is proud of me for what I have done and can see that I am a better person....but it doesn't change how she feels right now so she keeps me at a distance but just enough to leave the door open..I hope.
> 
> My selfishness as aine puts it, doesn't help me get through each day. I still have to function and live with my guilt for my actions. I will still rationalise what is happening and still look for a solution. I can't help that...I am human but I still love my wife and am learning from my mistakes.
> 
> I hope that everything I am doing will make her see me differently at some point. Maybe she already does but is holding back for her own protection. It just kills me to not know if there is a future for us..but I will have to live with that.
> 
> People on here mention other men or her dating...she isn't interested. She just wants to be happy with the kids and doesn't see any other guy as a solution. I was the man she invested in and I let her down. Why would anyone else be different?
> 
> I just need to get to a place where I am strong enough and confident enough to woo her back. She would spot BS a mile away. Just struggling to get moving....


Andy, now you see that, just focus on you, work on yourself, you cannot change her. Be the best man, Dad, friend, employee, etc you can be. No-one knows what the future will hold and what is in store for you. Let her go, in letting her go, you might well one day win her back but for now, she needs to heal as do you. Stop thinking about 'winning her back.' Let it be.


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## aine

blueinbr said:


> @aine The males are just calling what they see. As OP described, his wife dated and slept with other men, did cocaine, is very controlling, drinks heavily and smokes weed nearly daily. She is intolerant of any attempts by OP to raise this daughters properly. That said, she is free to end the marriage. Yes, she is manipulating him and knows she is doing it. That is just cruel.
> 
> @Evinrude58 post is spot on. Great summary and great advice
> 
> Andy, That friendzone spot will kill you. I spent two years there. Don't go there. Please don't go there. I listened to my friend tell me about her dates and the sex she had. It was like a punch in my stomach each time. You cannot be "friends" with your EX. You can be her lover or her EX, not friends.
> 
> Please get out of your head that she will not date again. You might start to feel better in a few months, but once you hear from your kids that your wife is dating, you will sink back lower than you are now. You told us your wife already dated MEN when you separated before. Now you will be divorced. Your wife craves attention. She WILL date. I am sorry. That hurts. If she says she has no interest in men, she is either lying or in denial. She will find a new partner. So will you.
> 
> We are somewhat alike in our emotions and in our relationships. I wish we could meet at the pub for a few pints and talk. You need friends. Make it a priority to make new friends. You need that.
> 
> Are you eating better and working out? We will kept telling you to do that because it is REALLY important.


If she is the manipulator you say she is and has done all that, advice still stands, let her deal with her own s*** and take care of yourself Andy, focus on you. maybe when you focus on being a better man, you will realise you do not need the drama in your life and are fine being alone. You sound a bit co-dependent? Maybe you should check out Co-dependent no more by M Beattie. It is not healthy to want someone so badly when they don't want you.


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## Andy101

Today my stbx told me that perhaps I need to go and meet someone else. She has not said this before. I was shocked. She says that she only wants to be friends for the sake if the kids and needs space from me as its all too much for her. She again said that she does not want anyone else but that we were not truly happy together. She says that it crushes her for us to all live apart but she couldn't live being unhappy for the rest of her life.

Does she really mean it? Find someone else? She doesn't want me to rely on her for my happiness and wants me to move on. 

Am I so wrong to want us all to be a family again? If both if us are not interested in other people what then? Just live alone? 

I fixed the garden fence today and took the children out for a few hours. I then asked if I could go back to read my youngest her bedtime story...it was too much for and she refused. That hurt. She now wants to reduce me seeing the kids to 2 evenings in the week as she needs space from me. 

I have read co dependant no more and can see I have to detach but god knows how. I wish I could erase her from my brain but I have to see her when I visit the kids. How can I detach without replacing her?


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## farsidejunky

Andy, what will it take for you to listen to her when she says she is done?

Denial is killing you.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Tron

She is so done with you. Even encouraging you to find someone else?

Might also very well be her trying to alleviate her own guilt for cheating on you.

Protect yourself. Detach.

Protect your relationship with your kids and get a lawyer.


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## Andy101

I am very much in denial. I always hope that one day we can work things out. I find comfort in the thought....
When we separated before, she was crushed at the thought of me meeting someone else..now she is encouraging it..does she really mean it? She knows that I am lonely. I don't really know anyone in this place except her and my kids. She says that I wasn't that interested in spending time with her before..which is crap. She tells me to move on......this is such a nightmare for me.


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## 225985

Andy, what is the agreement on custody of the kids?


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## Andy101

The agreememt is between us to decide. I see them 3 evenings a week where I help with bedtime, every saturday unless they see her family and every other sunday when she has to work. She wants to reduce the mid week visits to 2 nights as it's too much for her. She doesn't really speak to me whilst I am there and I just get on with things with the girls.


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## Evinrude58

So there is no legal agreement. You haven't filed, have you?

I know how this feels. I am sorry.

You have GOT to accept she is gone, Andy. You have for to start detaching for your own good, and get right in the head before you see her with another man. That will happen very soon.

I'm 100% convinced she is done with you. No matter what happens, the person you once knew is gone.
Face it. It isbt as bad as it seems. 
You WILL find someone else and it would be hard not to find one better than this one.

You need some Zoloft and some no contact months, and a freaking lawyer, like now. You won't listen and are rapidly self destructing not getting this taken care of legally.
Please listen to men who have been through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynthia

Andy101 said:


> The agreememt is between us to decide. I see them 3 evenings a week where I help with bedtime, every saturday unless they see her family and every other sunday when she has to work. She wants to reduce the mid week visits to 2 nights as it's too much for her. She doesn't really speak to me whilst I am there and I just get on with things with the girls.


They are you children too. It is time for a legal agreement. She does not get to decide everything according to what she wants, unless you let her. That is not healthy for the family. There should be a mutually agreed upon arrangement that works for the family.


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## 225985

Evinrude58 said:


> So there is no legal agreement.
> 
> You have GOT to accept she is gone, Andy. You have for to start detaching for your own good, and get right in the head before you see her with another man. That will happen very soon.
> 
> You need some Zoloft and some no contact months,


Andy, listen to @Evinrude58 I am taking zoloft for my anxiety due to separation from a woman. It helps. I have some xanax too.

Everyone is right about no contact. Limit yourself to see her ONLY when you have to for the kids.

What I found is that the more I distanced myself from this woman of mine, the more she initiated contact with me. The more I worked to be with her the LESS she wanted to be around me. This is exactly what your wife is doing. They all do this. You NEED to understand the more your push to be with your wife the less she wants you around and the MORE she will grow to resent and hate you.

No Contact is freaking hard. There is no easy getting over it. I am going on two weeks of NC. I have held steady; she contacted me three times and each time she does it restarts my longing for this woman. 

I actually want the NC because right now I cannot and do not want to see her or hear about her with another man. 

Never ever give up anything without getting something else in return. If she tries to limit you see the kids during the week, trade it for something else of equal importance to you and them. If you just concede she will she you as weak and take more. Hold firm. 

So besides work and seeing the kids , what are you doing for yourself?


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## bandit.45

Andy...at some point the good people here on TAM are going to get fed up with trying to give you advice and stop posting. 

You need to listen and absorb what we are telling you.


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## Blondilocks

blueinbr, your post would have been more honest if you had stated that you have a wife at home - it is your EA you're grieving. Your situation is nothing like Andy's.


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## 225985

Blondilocks said:


> blueinbr, your post would have been more honest if you had stated that you have a wife at home - it is your EA you're grieving. Your situation is nothing like Andy's.


I never claimed my situation was similar. Nor can I really understand what Andy is going though.

I was only trying to tell him that the advice offered by the other posts is the right path. I only wanted to help OP and did not want to threadjack with too much of my story. 

I will now keep quiet on this thread. Good Luck Andy


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## Blondilocks

blue, no need to keep quiet. I was not trying to shush you, please forgive me. It helps the OP if they know where the responder is coming from - that's all.


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## Andy101

It's hard for anyone to know exactly what I am going through..I thought my marriage would last forever. I met the dream girl and believed that a family should stick it out. I don't doubt my wife has feelings for me but she says she has to stay strong and stick to the separation as it would be easier to let me back in. So why tell me to move on? This is why I am in this limbo. I still believe in us so cannot detach. I wish there was a way to switch off and live alone happily. I know what the poster said about going no contact. I will try it. She contacts me every day to tell me about the kids, but never anything personal about me or her. I miss her company but right now, nothing I have done is working. Can anyone actually tell me the best way to detach when I have to see her every week to see the kids?


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## tech-novelist

Andy101 said:


> It's hard for anyone to know exactly what I am going through..I thought my marriage would last forever. I met the dream girl and believed that a family should stick it out. I don't doubt my wife has feelings for me but she says she has to stay strong and stick to the separation as it would be easier to let me back in. So why tell me to move on? This is why I am in this limbo. I still believe in us so cannot detach. I wish there was a way to switch off and live alone happily. I know what the poster said about going no contact. I will try it. She contacts me every day to tell me about the kids, but never anything personal about me or her. I miss her company but right now, nothing I have done is working. Can anyone actually tell me the best way to detach when I have to see her every week to see the kids?


There is no "us"; there is you and there is her, and she is using you.

As to how to detach when you have to share custody, that is something that others will have to address as I have no experience in that area.


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## Evinrude58

Andy, I STILL have to see my ex daily and deal w her about kids. Mine did to me what yours is doing to you. She even came over and used me for sex a time or two. She was cheating online, etc.

Acceptance is the key. Mine said the same bs as yours. She feels guilty and that's why she's talking to you. 
You are mistaking it for feelings. She has none.
Mine uploaded my pics and wrote me a dating profile online out of guilt WHILE we were married. They do this crazy s*#%. 
aCCEPTANCE. Can't tell you how important that is.
Feeling for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeful Cynic

Andy101 said:


> Can anyone actually tell me the best way to detach when I have to see her every week to see the kids?


You have to turn seeing the kids into a separate thing from having to see her. Don't go see them at her house. Bring them to yours.

Get your own place with enough bedrooms for the kids. Pick them up from school when your parenting time starts, parent them for a week, then drop them off at school again for the start of your ex-wife's parenting time.

You get to be Dad half the time, and see your ex-wife a grand total of NEVER.

She can take herself out of your life. She's a grown adult who makes her own decisions and all you can do is react like a grown adult. But she can't take your children with her unless you allow it, through apathy, or her manipulations.

This bull**** about you having to visit her home to see the children is for a hired babysitter, not a parent. She's controlling you this way, and it gives her a huge edge in getting custody when the legal stuff turns into a fight.

She's trying to minimize the time you spend with the children. "Oh, you have to come here to see them, it's less disruptive for their little lives." then comes "Oh, but you can't come here too often, I can't stand seeing you!" which is followed by "Your Honour, he hardly sees the children, so I should have majority custody."


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## Evinrude58

Absolutely right
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynthia

Hopeful Cynic said:


> You have to turn seeing the kids into a separate thing from having to see her. Don't go see them at her house. Bring them to yours.
> 
> Get your own place with enough bedrooms for the kids. Pick them up from school when your parenting time starts, parent them for a week, then drop them off at school again for the start of your ex-wife's parenting time.
> 
> You get to be Dad half the time, and see your ex-wife a grand total of NEVER.
> 
> She can take herself out of your life. She's a grown adult who makes her own decisions and all you can do is react like a grown adult. But she can't take your children with her unless you allow it, through apathy, or her manipulations.
> 
> This bull**** about you having to visit her home to see the children is for a hired babysitter, not a parent. She's controlling you this way, and it gives her a huge edge in getting custody when the legal stuff turns into a fight.
> 
> She's trying to minimize the time you spend with the children. "Oh, you have to come here to see them, it's less disruptive for their little lives." then comes "Oh, but you can't come here too often, I can't stand seeing you!" which is followed by "Your Honour, he hardly sees the children, so I should have majority custody."


1,000 Times yes to the above.

She is manipulating the situation and you are letting her. If you don't start standing up and making sure you have a legal plan in place asap, you are going to not only lose your wife, but your children as well. Wake up!

You do not go to her. You take the kids to school on Monday and she picks them up Monday afternoon. You switch this out weekly. You make a plan for holidays, because if she gets Christmas this year and then sticks to every other week, you will never get them for Christmas again, because there are an even number of weeks in the year. You have to specifically outline which years you get the kids for each holiday, in the parenting plan.

Buy a book for divorce and custody in your state and start reading up on it immediately. Know your rights. Having an attorney is great, but you need to know your rights from another source, not one who is relying on your ignorance for billing purposes.

Enough is enough. You are being expertly manipulated.


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## MRR

Andy101 said:


> I am very much in denial. I always hope that one day we can work things out. I find comfort in the thought....
> When we separated before, she was crushed at the thought of me meeting someone else..now she is encouraging it..does she really mean it? She knows that I am lonely. I don't really know anyone in this place except her and my kids. She says that I wasn't that interested in spending time with her before..which is crap. She tells me to move on......this is such a nightmare for me.


--you are not going to work things out

--does she mean this? does she mean that? What difference does it make?

--She does not want you. She has told you this. Believe it. 

I know it's hard, I have been in a similar place, but Andy you are looking pathetic....and you dont HAVE to. It's a CHOICE.


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## Andy101

The problem I have at the moment is that I am lodging and only have a room in a house. I cannot take the kids there. I also work long hours so cannot drop the kids off at school so no mid week sleep overs. Until I have some capitol I cannot afford to rent a property and that will not be until June. I therefore have no option but to visit the kids in the evenings and take them out for a few hours at weekends. So, my evening visits are important for me but it isn't easy on her seeing me. She says that I get to see the kids more than some fathers do but they need to see me too. It's always her way or not at all. A custody application would be pointless at this stage. We have 50/50 responsibility as stated in the divorce papers. She could play hard ball and stop access if she really wanted to but that would back fire as she would never get a break from them and struggle to get a baby sitter for when she works. I am happy to see them but don't like the rules changing because of her feelings towards me.


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## Evinrude58

Andy, has a divorce been filed, and is there a signed custody agreement in place?
Until you can answer yes, your time with your kids is in great jeopardy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynthia

Please explain a few things that might help us.
Did you have any input in the divorce agreement? Or did you just go along with what she wanted?
When is the divorce final?
Is she living in the family home with the children?
What does the family home consist of: a rental house or apartment, a home you own?
What does the custody agreement say regarding when you each have the children? You said it gives you 50/50, but she seems to be calling all the shots.

If you are working long hours and cannot take the children to school in the morning, you will have to figure something else out. You are not going to be able to go to her house indefinitely to visit the kids. And you shouldn't be visiting them. You are their father. You aren't a babysitter or a friend who comes to visit. To keep the kids healthy and in good spirits, some kind of proper arrangement needs to be worked out between the two of you.


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## Dyokemm

What a trainwreck.

Andy accepts all the blame for this situation.....his looking at porn and how it made her feel is the SOLE cause of the M breakdown.

Her going out sleeping around with other men, partying, and even doing drugs is not 'relevant'.

What a crock of sh*t.

Andy....I saw that yesterday, Bandit posted that eventually people would stop posting advice if you continue to not follow ANY of the awesome advice many posters have been trying to extend to you.

He's is probably right.....all the great advice in the world does not a single bit of good if you don't finally detach and stand up and start fighting for yourself.

What you are putting up with is RIDICULOUS.


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## SadandAngry

Andy, you need to get it together man, seriously. You are participating in screwing yourself. Stop it. Just stop, and actually think for a bit. Stop worrying about your wife, and think about you, your kids, and your life without your ex. You need to face up to it, because this is what is happening, and nothing will stop it. Nothing, so just forget it for now, before you screw up the next phase of your life. You need money. Save money while living in your own house. If it bugs her that much, let her move out and visit the kids. Prepare to sell the house, if you cannot afford to keep it. Look for a place very close to the school, so the kids can walk. Set your life up in order to afford having your kids half the time, let her worry about her half. And for crying out loud, answer us, do you have your own lawyer, and have you asked him for input, or just gone along with her demands? Because that's what it sounds like.


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## Andy101

I'll try and make myself clear because posters are not reading my thread properly.

My wife filed for divorce in January.

We are at the financial stage where we have agreed out of court. My w only wants child maintenance but I OFFERED to pay my share of the mortgage. Child custody is split equally in the uk unless other issues are raised by the court.

I can afford the house as I earn a high salary. I moved out of my house to stop the extreme tension and give my w space and will not have the money for my own place for two more months then I will be ok.

My wife slept with other guys when we separated 5 years ago and hasn't since we got back together...just flirting...which is still bad.

I have a lawyer and she says the papers look ok snd my w is being very reasonable. 

I'm not on this forum for legal advice with all due respect. I came on here for emotional support. To try and reconcile with her. For advice on how to actually let go and hear practical ideas.


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## 225985

Letting go is the hardest part. I have no advice for you. I am struggling myself. 

Hopefully others will respond.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Andy101 said:


> I'll try and make myself clear because posters are not reading my thread properly.
> 
> My wife filed for divorce in January.
> 
> We are at the financial stage where we have agreed out of court. My w only wants child maintenance but I OFFERED to pay my share of the mortgage. Child custody is split equally in the uk unless other issues are raised by the court.
> 
> I can afford the house as I earn a high salary. I moved out of my house to stop the extreme tension and give my w space and will not have the money for my own place for two more months then I will be ok.
> 
> My wife slept with other guys when we separated 5 years ago and hasn't since we got back together...just flirting...which is still bad.
> 
> I have a lawyer and she says the papers look ok snd my w is being very reasonable.
> 
> I'm not on this forum for legal advice with all due respect. I came on here for emotional support. To try and reconcile with her. For advice on how to actually let go and hear practical ideas.


The letting go gets a LOT easier once you no longer have to see her. Focus on gritting your teeth to get through the next few months till you get your own place. Don't talk to her about ANYTHING except for the children. Don't expect ANYTHING from her unless it's about the children. Don't offer her ANYTHING unless it's about the children. Don't talk to her about how her day was, don't mow her lawn, don't bring her a coffee. Pretend she's a hired housekeeper/nanny you have no connection to. Avoid her as much as possible by bringing the children somewhere else for your time. Take them househunting with you. Even if you can't afford anything right now, practice looking around with them anyway. Focus on the future, down to the minutia. When you feel emotional, take deep breaths, remind yourself this is temporary and refocus yourself on the future.


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## Cynthia

Andy101 said:


> I'll try and make myself clear because posters are not reading my thread properly.
> 
> My wife filed for divorce in January.
> 
> We are at the financial stage where we have agreed out of court. My w only wants child maintenance but I OFFERED to pay my share of the mortgage. Child custody is split equally in the uk unless other issues are raised by the court.
> 
> I can afford the house as I earn a high salary. I moved out of my house to stop the extreme tension and give my w space and will not have the money for my own place for two more months then I will be ok.
> 
> My wife slept with other guys when we separated 5 years ago and hasn't since we got back together...just flirting...which is still bad.
> 
> I have a lawyer and she says the papers look ok snd my w is being very reasonable.
> 
> I'm not on this forum for legal advice with all due respect. I came on here for emotional support. To try and reconcile with her. For advice on how to actually let go and hear practical ideas.


It helps to understand your situation in order to give you emotional support. If we don't know what you are facing or what your circumstances are, it is hard for us to know what might help you.


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## Andy101

My situation is that I am struggling day to day with the reality that my marriage is over. My wife contacts me alot, messaging me about the kids and when I see her, to see the kids, she looks great and I that fills me with regret that I cannot be intimate with her anymore. I can't just not see her so I have to try and look at her differently but that would only happen if I had someone else in my life which is not going to happen for a while. 

I think about how I just wanted to have a normal family and can't believe how matter of fact she is and content with this new arrangement. For her, divorce is a fact of life as she already lived it as a child. She says that it is hard for her too but couldn't be unhappy for the rest of her life. I now feel that I don't have a normal life...everyone at work is married and I feel alone. I miss the company...

She told me to join a gym or something....and to stop using her and the kids for my company! She said that I should try and meet someone else and start over! It's a nightmare for me. Who else should I turn to if not my family?


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## Corpuswife

I understand the surreal world that you live in after a separation or divorce. It's about healing during this time. There is no one formula and if there were..... I would be drinking the coolaid! LOL

Your family cannot meet all of your needs emotionally. It is important to make friends or turning to your friends; to look at perhaps finding a counselor; or connecting spiritually (church, prayer, etc). There are divorce support groups in which I have just finished attending. Basically, reaching out to others is beneficial but really family is somewhat limited and skewed....they sometimes want to fix; don't know how to help; or are so emotionally involved themselves can make things worse for us.

It's difficult to let go when you have children and are contact. However, it can be done in due time.


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## 3Xnocharm

Andy101 said:


> She told me to join a gym or something....and to stop using her and the kids for my company! She said that I should try and meet someone else and start over! It's a nightmare for me. Who else should I turn to if not my family?


This is 100% true. You have to make your own life. You will never have a successful relationship in the future if you dont learn to be on your own. You really need to work on your codependence, you cannot rely on other people to complete your life. Make sure you dont date for quite some time, you have a lot of work to do on yourself.


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## Cynthia

In a couple of months you will have a place of your own and be able to take the kids to your home. That will help a lot.
In the meantime, I think joining a gym would be a great idea for you. Exercise helps tremendously with stress and makes you feel better about yourself. It also makes for a great physique.


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## Blondilocks

Your wife (for all technical purposes) is no longer your wife. It's strange that you want to hang around her when you couldn't even stay off the porn sites to sexually satisfy her. She's hot but apparently you're not interested in her sexually. She's screamed and raged at you for your entire marriage about the porn but you didn't do anything different. Now, it's too little too late. 

Accept your actions towards your marriage's demise and try to take your next partner's complaints seriously.

You will feel better when you get your own place and establish your own routines.


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## Diana7

she cant have you as a friend and reject you as a husband. My husbands ex wife met another man and divorced him but still expected him to go and help her out with her paper work and jobs round the house. BY then we had met and after talking about it he told her that he wasnt going to come any more except to collect the sons when he saw them. They had no more contact after that as the boys were old enough to make make their own arrangements with their dad. 

if she has ended the marriage, then she has to accept that she cant have you any more. You need to be polite and civil but apart from when you collect your children, you have no need to see her. It maybe that when you cut those ties she will realise what she may loose, but right now she doesnt want you as a husband but wants to hang onto you for her own needs.


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## Andy101

I know that I can't hang around her, and her coldness towards me keeps me at a distance. We had an argument about how she doesn't want me taking the kids to my brothers house because she doesn't get on with his wife. It became heated because they are my closest family. She just snapped that I shouldn't have done what I did! She is still very angry about the break up and rarely speaks to me so keeping a diatance from her isn't too difficult....it's the kids who are confused although they know the situation. My W tells my eldest daughter stuff that shouldn't be hearing so when she is distant, I know something has been said. I just don't know the woman anymore. She is so resentful I'm not sure how we could ever be normal in a marriage again...I know I have to live my own life but the way things are for me right now...it's very hard. Would time calm things down?


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## farsidejunky

SMH.

Stop asking questions.

Stop playing "what if".

Find legal advice before you miss out on time with your kids due to a misaligned custody agreement.

Just let her go.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

Andy,
Time, in my experience, will surely help. But until I accepted my marriage was over and had zero hope, the pain really didn't lessen over time all that much. 
Once I realized my life with her was over, and that there was nothing I could do to stop my family being broken apart, I started slowly improving. I forced myself to date. In truth, I dated just to spite her for a while. It was helpful because what she had done destroyed my self image and I didn't think there was a decent woman that would have me. I didn't think there were any women my age out there that weren't low class divorcees that nobody wanted. Honestly, I always thought divorced people were people that just couldn't keep a promise. Of course I realized it's not always their fault. 
There is life after divorce. Yes, this will always bother you. Yes, it's going to take a long time to get over. Yes, you are going to be in pain for a while.

But, you WILL find happiness again IF you do your part and force yourself to think about a different future little by little, and then do things to make it happen. I took Zoloft for about 2 months and it helped. I never knew what a panic attack was until this divorce started. It's a terrible, helpless feeling to know there's not a damn thing you can do to change your wife's mind. It's hard to get your head around the fact that YOUR OWN WIFE doesn't love you anymore. I constantly racked my brain trying to figure out how to get my family back, how to be a man my ex would want again, how I could say I'm sorry for whatever I had done so she'd understand I meant it. Trying to understand the WHY of it all.  That was a waste of time, and brought me nothing but pain.
You've got to get to the point that you realize WHY is not important. What is important is that you know it was not all your fault, and that who IS at fault makes no difference whatsoever since the problem can't be fixed. All you can do is start building a new life without her. Grieve the loss of your marriage, but at the same time, spend as much energy as you can working toward goals of making your own life better. 
Do not try to make her happy. This is a time that you have to change your mindset to helping yourself.
I hope you are working with your lawyer on child custody. As it appears, your ex wife is not going to let you have any time alone with them. That's not fair. She won't be fair about it, either, unless the court forces her to. 
Doing nothing won't make things better. Move forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I know that I can't hang around her, and her coldness towards me keeps me at a distance. We had an argument about how *she doesn't want me taking the kids to my brothers house because she doesn't get on with his wife.* It became heated because they are my closest family. She just snapped that I shouldn't have done what I did! She is still very angry about the break up and rarely speaks to me so keeping a diatance from her isn't too difficult....it's the kids who are confused although they know the situation. My W tells my eldest daughter stuff that shouldn't be hearing so when she is distant, I know something has been said. I just don't know the woman anymore. She is so resentful I'm not sure how we could ever be normal in a marriage again...I know I have to live my own life but the way things are for me right now...it's very hard. Would time calm things down?


Andy, Your ex wife is trying to manipulate you. She does not want you talking the kids because she does not get along with your brother's wife? Who the heck cares!! Your ex is not going to be there so what is it to her? It is very important that you visit your family and take your kids. They are your kids family too. 

Your ex wife is, every effectively, going to guilt and shame you into doing things she wants. It is all about power and control and she is controlling you for her own benefit.

She did not say your brother's wife would be bad influence on your kids. It is all about your ex wife. It is ALWAYS about her. You must know that by now. 

We are looking forward to your next post about how you and YOUR kids (not HER kids) went to see your brother...


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## Cynthia

It is damaging and unhealthy for your children if your stbx is alienating them from you. Do not let this continue. She also wants to alienate them from your family. She cannot do that. You are their parent too. I recommend that you start working on dealing with these issues. Perhaps speak to a therapist for advice and do some reading on how to counter these tactics. Letting it go without saying anything is unhealthy and not protecting your children. Speak to your daughter and ask her what is being said, then talk it through with her, always reassuring her that you love her and always will and that you will always be there for her. Your kids needs to hear this from you often. They are likely afraid.


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## freefool

Wow. What I am reading sounds a lot like what i am going through. Although I am making sure i dont take any crap from my soon to be ex.

I am in my 5th week of separation. It's over between us. I know she has since slept with someone after week 1. My wife is hot and I am so jealous I won't be with her again. 

She did nothing around the house, I did all the work. I cooked, cleaned, DIY'd, paid for most stuff. I got nothing but crap about how she looked after the kids while I worked, which equals me not doing any thing to help her?!

She texts or calls me daily asking me to do stuff.

Andy, like me you have to start ignoring her a bit or stop doing favours for her. I would like nothing more for my missus to use me for sex like one poster said happened to him but that would just make things worse.

I wanted to make a thread about my own issues. I know I have to be strong, this thread sounds quite familiar. I have lost the dream of the typical family, I have lost a gorgeous, hot wife. I won't have sex with her ever again. She tore my heart out and stomped on it. We have kids and have to see each other - I will do anything for them but not for her, that will be a fine line and I get crap from her when I stand up for myself and she doesn't get what she wants

It's hard but Andy you need to look after what you want and face up to the fact she won't be in that picture.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


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## Andy101

It's difficult to detach in a way that you do not do anything or feel anything for the other person. My W was my life. And I was hers. To suddenly turn off from her would not only go against how I feel, but reduce my communication with the girls. I have to maintain a good relationship but learn somehow to keep my distance emotionally. 

She has been more friendly and talkative this week. I don't understand why. We had a row on saturday but since then, she is not as cold towards me. Don't get it. She texted me for nearly 2 hours on Sunday, mainly to clear the air and talk about the kids but niw asks me about my job and how I am. 

She is going to Disneyland with her mum and the kids this weekend. I feel sad about it as we all went together last June. I continue to feel like an outsider. Although she makes sure I talk to the kids and know what they are doing, I feel like I have no family life of my own. Are there any good reads on situatuons like mine? I seem to be stronger now than I was but maybe I am just blanking the reality out.


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## 225985

Do you have any close friends you can hang out with? That helps. A little.


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## Andy101

I have 2 close friends who I see often, and although it helps, it isn't the same as close female company. That is what I really miss. I thought of asking the receptionist at work on a date, but that would be a bad idea. I can only think about my W even though she has no interest.


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## Evinrude58

Andy,
The reason she can talk and exchange pleasantries about work is that she has LONG AGO detached from you emotionally. What she is demonstrating toward you is called indifference. 
I know how hard it is. Believe me, I do. But, you DO need to turn it off and block her out of your life. If not, you will just cause yourself extended time on the pain you're experiencing. It's hard. It's not impossible. Have you checked with your doctor about a zoloft prescription for anxiety? Are you having panic attacks or feeling just on edge constantly about all this? I did. The zoloft helped. I used a generic version.

You will eventually come to realize that she wasn't your life, and you weren't hers. If she was your life, you'd have not been on porn sites and would have been in the bedroom with your wife, tearing up the sheets. And if you were her life, she wouldn't be divorcing you. You are seeing things from the perspective of an understandably hurt, emotional, dysfunctional state of mind. What you're feeling now is causing you to think in a certain way. Once you are able to block her out of your life and detach, you will see things differently and be able to move on. 

You will get through this. You'll just get through it faster if you follow some of the advice people with experience in this are giving you. There is NOTHING you can do about her feelings. NOTHING. ANYTHING you attempt to get her to reconcile will drive her further away (if that's even possible, now). If you would ignore her, move on, and date other women; you'd have a better chance of reconciling than hoovering around her and showing her how weak and dependent you are.
She likely will NOT ever return to the marriage-- it rarely, if ever happens, even when the marriage was stronger at one time than yours. You've got to accept this--- she's not coming back. Once you accept, you'll heal. I've said it before. Maybe it will sink in eventually.


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## Yeswecan

Andy101 said:


> I know that I can't hang around her, and her coldness towards me keeps me at a distance. We had an argument about how she doesn't want me taking the kids to my brothers house because she doesn't get on with his wife. It became heated because they are my closest family. She just snapped that I shouldn't have done what I did!


She is dictating what family members you can see and not see? Are you sure you are getting divorced?


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## Yeswecan

Andy101 said:


> It's difficult to detach in a way that you do not do anything or feel anything for the other person. My W was my life. And I was hers. To suddenly turn off from her would not only go against how I feel, but reduce my communication with the girls. I have to maintain a good relationship but learn somehow to keep my distance emotionally.
> 
> She has been more friendly and talkative this week. I don't understand why. We had a row on saturday but since then, she is not as cold towards me. Don't get it. She texted me for nearly 2 hours on Sunday, mainly to clear the air and talk about the kids but niw asks me about my job and how I am.
> 
> She is going to Disneyland with her mum and the kids this weekend. I feel sad about it as we all went together last June. I continue to feel like an outsider. Although she makes sure I talk to the kids and know what they are doing, I feel like I have no family life of my own. Are there any good reads on situatuons like mine? I seem to be stronger now than I was but maybe I am just blanking the reality out.


Having a good time with the kids and her mum at Disney yet tells you to go find a friend at the friggin gym. What kind of bullocks is that? Time to start scheduling day trips for you and the kids. You don't need a darn gym to find a friend or keep busy. You make time for the kids away from your STXW. The evenings you see the kids. Take them for ice cream. Leave STBX and the house.


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## Andy101

I hear what people are saying but I feel trapped. I put her on a pedastal and have always admired her. Even now she had such power over me. I also feel guilty for letting down the kids as they want me home and think I should love their mum. I don't agree that she is indifferent towards me. She is emotionally a mess and still has feelings for me but thinks she is happier ling term with me at a distance. It's not healthy for me I know but I can't pull away so easily.


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## farsidejunky

Seriously? Why are they going to Disney World without you?

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## Evinrude58

Andy101 said:


> I hear what people are saying but I feel trapped. I put her on a pedastal and have always admired her. Even now she had such power over me. I also feel guilty for letting down the kids as they want me home and think I should love their mum. I don't agree that she is indifferent towards me. *She is emotionally a mess and still has feelings for me but thinks she is happier ling term with me at a distance. It's not healthy for me I know but I can't pull away so easily.*




Andy, you are in denial. She does not have any feelings for you. If she did, her actions wouldn't speak volumes to the opposite. Feeling guilty about the pain you're going through is not the same as feelings. I hate to see you so far from acceptance. It means you're a long way from getting better. 

It is indifference. I hate it, but it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## freefool

Yeah you need to blank her out. My wife is doing the same. Asking how i am, chatting generic sh#t to me as if nothing has changed. I just ignore these questions and conversation starters. She left me and sh#t on me. Why the F should I engage in pleasantries?
She has gone. You need to accept it or your pain will carry on.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


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## 225985

Evinrude58 said:


> Have you checked with your doctor about a zoloft prescription for anxiety? Are you having panic attacks or feeling just on edge constantly about all this? I did. The zoloft helped. I used a generic version.


Andy, you really should consider this. I am on a 50 mg daily dosage. It helps.


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## 225985

Evinrude58 said:


> But, you DO need to turn it off and block her out of your life. If not, you will just cause yourself extended time on the pain you're experiencing. It's hard. It's not impossible.


Andy, This ^^ is a MUST DO. 



Evinrude58 said:


> Andy, you are in denial. She does not have any feelings for you.


Unfortunately ER58 is right. You must stop thinking that she has feelings for you.


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## Cynthia

If she really does have feeling for you, she will chase you if you quit chasing her. If not, then you will know the truth and can move on. Either way, this is obviously not working out for you the way things are now. You are a wreck.
Leading your children on in them not being able to process the divorce is unhealthy for them. They need to realize that their parents are getting divorced. You stbx needs to recognize that divorce means she doesn't have you and you get to handle the kids without her input on where they go or who they are with. You aren't going to take them someplace dangerous for heaven sake.


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## 225985

CynthiaDe said:


> If she really does have feeling for you, she will chase you if you quit chasing her.


Right!

And Andy, do not mistake her calling you or texting you to be "chasing" you. It is not.


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## Andy101

I get what everyone is saying. All I have to go on is what happened in the past. She thought the grass was greener...and then found out it wasn't...I was a wreck but I remained her friend and she came back to me. We have two children in common and we have history so there is always hope. 

My problem today is her sending me photos if her and the kids and MIL sitting in first class on their way to DL. Really pissed me off. Her mum has gone out if her way to out do my efforts last year. As if to say....we don't need you....

I feel like I am the last person of importance and feel completely outcast by my own family. I have always needed a woman in my life and function best when my life is complete in that way. It's just me. This limbo is killing me. I can't date because I am married and no woman would come near me...I cannot be with my ex because she doesn't want me. Her heart may soften....but when if ever...I'm in a bad place and can't figure a way out.


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## naiveonedave

Andy101 said:


> I get what everyone is saying. All I have to go on is what happened in the past. She thought the grass was greener...and then found out it wasn't...I was a wreck but I remained her friend and she came back to me. We have two children in common and we have history so there is always hope.
> 
> My problem today is her sending me photos if her and the kids and MIL sitting in first class on their way to DL. Really pissed me off. Her mum has gone out if her way to out do my efforts last year. As if to say....we don't need you....
> 
> I feel like I am the last person of importance and feel completely outcast by my own family. I have always needed a woman in my life and function best when my life is complete in that way. It's just me. This limbo is killing me. I can't date because I am married and no woman would come near me...I cannot be with my ex because she doesn't want me. Her heart may soften....but when if ever...I'm in a bad place and can't figure a way out.


file for D, don't look back and start dating.


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## Andy101

Well she has really shown me her true colours today. After she left for Disney, she was her normal chatty self on whatsapp., sendibg me photos of them all on the train, which pissed me off.. I later went to the house to spend the weekend there....and she left her key in the front door and lkcked the back door, taking the keys with her!!!

I was so shocked. I couldn't believe how calculated she is. She had no right to lock me out of my home. I called the cops abd they told me to get a locksmith.

So I called a locksmith and he showed me how to lock up afterwards so she won't notice I was there. I don't know what to say to her. I just can't believe she would plan this. She basically thinks it's HER house and the kids are mainly HER kids. She manipulates and controls me..it has been a real eye opener....not sure what to do next..


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## 225985

Don't you have house keys, front and back door? It is your house.

Andy, when is the divorce finalized? She will control you during the separation.


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## GuyInColorado

Start dating if you are ready. I started dating two weeks after moving out and am in a serious relationship 4 months later. I'll be divorced in a couple more months.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Well she has really shown me her true colours today. After she left for Disney, she was her normal chatty self on whatsapp., sendibg me photos of them all on the train, which pissed me off.. I later went to the house to spend the weekend there....and she left her key in the front door and lkcked the back door, taking the keys with her!!!
> 
> I was so shocked. I couldn't believe how calculated she is. She had no right to lock me out of my home. I called the cops abd they told me to get a locksmith.
> 
> So I called a locksmith and he showed me how to lock up afterwards so she won't notice I was there. I don't know what to say to her. I just can't believe she would plan this. She basically thinks it's HER house and the kids are mainly HER kids. She manipulates and controls me..it has been a real eye opener....not sure what to do next..


Why were you shocked? All you ever do is enable her to do as she pleases. She owns you man. 

You don't count. Do you not get that???? You don't respect yourself enough so why wouldn't she rub your nose in it.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=4CLDYuDIZRFDP77ZIjdX.Kfp8fg-


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## Marc878

> So I called a locksmith and he showed me how to lock up afterwards so she won't notice I was there. I don't know what to say to her. I just can't believe she would plan this. She basically thinks it's HER house and the kids are mainly HER kids. She manipulates and controls me..it has been a real eye opener....not sure what to do next.


God forbid you make her mad at finding out you went in YOUR home!!!!!

Your helplessness is painfull to read. This is all on you.


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## 225985

Andy, are you going to the gym?


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## Evinrude58

I fear by the time you catch on, she will have full custody, all your money, and you will be just a fly on her radar to toy with when she feels like being a b to someone.
You've got to detach. There is no hope here for reconciliation. You have for to move on and break her spell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha

Hello Andy and sorry to read about your situation. I don't know your whole story.

You say 5 years ago you two had separated. What was the agreement then ? Did you both agree to see other people ? You said she dressed provocatively (hunting for men) and then found and slept with other guys back then - more than one guy I take it. Did she do this alone or with friends who helped her ? How long did this go on for ? Was this something you knew about at the time ? Were you sleeping with other women too ? Was the thinking back then that the separation was a precursor to divorce ? You say she did a "180" and wanted you back when you found someone. Was this the first person you found ? If so, you made a colossal mistake back then. She had gone out, tested the grass on the other side, had her fun, got her rocks off and then made sure you didn't go anywhere else. AND YOU THINK (SOMEHOW) THAT SHE LOVED YOU ?!?!?!?!?

I am trying to understand what was so different back then to now.

Now, five years on, she has asked you to leave and YOU JUST COMPLIED ?!?!?!?!? Unbelievable! You that is, not her. She is acting true to form - you, on the other hand, do not appear to be learning anything and have your head firmly buried in the ground!

Wake up - you should not have moved out. You should not put yourself under any unnecessary financial stress (or any other unnecessary stress). You should iron out legally a custody agreement. You should understand that your marriage is over (has been for some time now) and you need to start behaving like an adult who is going through divorce - protect yourself and your custody/kids. This includes who can be around your kids etc.

Stop wallowing in your misery, and start taking positive steps. What would happen if you moved back into the house ? Don't tell me about living in misery, because that is what you are doing living outside of your house.

Wake up man, before it is too late.


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## Andy101

I keep trying to keep her sweet as she could make access to the kids difficult and would turn the kids against me. This 'friendliness' just looks like a way of keeping the status quo while I don't have a suitable place to live until July. 

When we separated before, she didn't want me in the house but she allowed me to stay there when I was baby sitting our daughter. She put me through hell back then with her seeing other guys..I did not see anyone. I only went on one date but I just wanted her back. 

What she has done by locking me out, is showing her true intensions. All nice on the surface but calculated underneath. I will get onto the lawyer in 4 weeks when I get payed as I now see problems ahead.

Yes, I accept this is not a woman who has any intention of reconciling. She likes me being around to suit her. I will date again but not until I am settled. I also worry that women will not want a separated man until he is divorced.

The divorce is on hold until I sign the financial agreement. I have held onto the papers until I can afford a lawyer. I am now glad that I did not sign straight away. In a way, divorce would be a welcome release.


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## manfromlamancha

Andy101 said:


> I keep trying to keep her sweet as she could make access to the kids difficult and would turn the kids against me. This 'friendliness' just looks like a way of keeping the status quo while I don't have a suitable place to live until July.
> 
> *This is why you need a custody agreement tied down legally asap. So that you are not at her beck and call and she cannot threaten you by denying access to your kids.*
> 
> When we separated before, she didn't want me in the house but she allowed me to stay there when I was baby sitting our daughter. She put me through hell back then with her seeing other guys..I did not see anyone. I only went on one date but I just wanted her back.
> 
> *Was this the agreement/understanding at the time ? That you could both see other people ? Or did you separate on the understanding that you would get some space but remain faithful while you worked out your issues ?*
> 
> What she has done by locking me out, is showing her true intensions. All nice on the surface but calculated underneath. I will get onto the lawyer in 4 weeks when I get payed as I now see problems ahead.
> 
> Yes, I accept this is not a woman who has any intention of reconciling. She likes me being around to suit her. I will date again but not until I am settled. I also worry that women will not want a separated man until he is divorced.
> 
> The divorce is on hold until I sign the financial agreement. I have held onto the papers until I can afford a lawyer. I am now glad that I did not sign straight away. In a way, divorce would be a welcome release.


What about you moving back into the house ? Will save on rent and may free up funds for you to proceed with the divorce full speed.


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## Andy101

One problem I have is that I never expected to end up going through a divorce and having to plan ahead for a different future. I had the girl, the house kids and career. My parents never divorced and I don't know many people that have. I realise that there were problems but nothing major that we couldn't work out. Her emotions changed towards me...the porn hit her hard and now I am trying to figure out how to get her out of my head regardless of the guilt about my actions and the affect all this will have on the kids. She looks after them very well, they never go without but if I can't be part if their lives how can I move forward. I have to recover but need some pointers in getting her off the pedastal. If I can do that, everything may fall into place easier


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> One problem I have is that I never expected to end up going through a divorce and having to plan ahead for a different future. I had the girl, the house kids and career. My parents never divorced and I don't know many people that have. I realise that there were problems but nothing major that we couldn't work out. Her emotions changed towards me...the porn hit her hard and now I am trying to figure out how to get her out of my head regardless of the guilt about my actions and the affect all this will have on the kids. She looks after them very well, they never go without but* if I can't be part if their lives how can I move forward*. I have to recover but need some pointers in getting her off the pedastal. If I can do that, everything may fall into place easier


I get you Andy. This is not the life you planned but it now is the life you have. You can make it great, when you are READY. 

You must put your guilt aside. You are looking at this emotionally. MANY of us here can and do see your ex as you described and believe me she is no angel. She has brought as much baggage to the marriage as you. She just detached first. I could have been your first. 

What was that crappy sentence in bold about?? You are of course involved in your kids lives 50%. Just not involved in your ex's life.

And I get the pedestal part. I put a woman on one. Her relationship resume was dismal and on paper a person I should not have fallen for. Once you put them on the pedestal, it is hard to get them off. I know that as do you. But what has been working for me the last 4 weeks is to cut contact with the woman. You need to discuss only the kids with her. NOTHING ELSE. I don't think you are ready yet to fully do that, but that is what you need to do and that is the MUST DO to get her off the pedestal. After 4 weeks of basically no contact, I am thinking about "my" woman about a third of what I had been. A *drastic* improvement for me. You can do this.


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## Andy101

I wish I could go no contact but that is not going to happen with 2 young children. It would be irresponsible when so much needs to be discussed about their day to day care. We dont really discuss anything other than the kids except when my ex asks me how I am....I then have a stock answer...I'm fine thanks...... I never elaborate further even though I am a wreck inside. I have plans where I need to be and possibly start looking for someone new but it's not what I would want. I feel I need to give my ex more time to come to her senses but it's frustrating after her behaviour dictates otherwise. 

I have read that sometimes pulling away emotionally can make the other spouse start chasing. It sounds odd but I wonder if anyone has successfully achieved this?


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## Evinrude58

Andy101 said:


> One problem I have is that I never expected to end up going through a divorce and having to plan ahead for a different future. I had the girl, the house kids and career. My parents never divorced and I don't know many people that have. I realise that there were problems but nothing major that we couldn't work out. Her emotions changed towards me...the porn hit her hard and now I am trying to figure out how to get her out of my head regardless of the guilt about my actions and the affect all this will have on the kids. She looks after them very well, they never go without but if I can't be part if their lives how can I move forward. I have to recover but need some pointers in getting her off the pedastal. If I can do that, everything may fall into place easier


You doing the porn AND not having sex with your wife IS a huge problem. You shouldn't excuse yourself on that. Or am I wrong and you were still having sex with her?

It really doesn't matter, though, ANdy.
What matters is that your marriage is gone and I assure you, one can't hope it back into existence because I tried it. If you don't get out of this "it's not over forever" mindset and start doing something to ensure you legally can see your kids, you are just going to end up NOT seeing them. 

You are really being stubborn and refusing to see the reality of your situation. I'm trying to get you to take some action and get to see your kids when this is all over. But you have got to stop wishing for how you want things to be and taking the steps you need to make things as best as they can be. If you sit by and hope for the best while your wife moves on to greener pastures, you will be in for even more hurt.

You always say "she says she is done with men". She is lying and you are in fantasyland if you can allow yourself to believe it.

I know you are in a world of hurt. Just don't stay there. Move. Get out. You can do it by having the strength to accept what you can't change and working on the things you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

Andy, why not set a fixed hour window each day for you and ex to talk about kids, for example 7-8 pm. Don't answer any calls before then or after. In that way you will not have to think about her at random times during the day when SHE decides to contact you. 

Treat it like a business transaction. You only discuss the business of the kids from 7-8 pm. 

Forget the pulling away emotionally can make the other spouse start chasing. That does not work.


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## Andy101

The weekend started badly as I was hoping to spend time in my house whilst the family were in Disney. I went to the house and the door was locked from the inside. She had locked the front door and gone out the back door taking the key with her! 

I was so angry I called the Police for advice. They told me to call a locksmith, which I did and spent a relaxing weekend at home.

My ex messaged me alot during her time away, telling me it wasn't the same without me and that she was thinking about me alot. I feel like crap because If she misses me, then why do all this? I think my D4 haa been talking about me alot and maybe guilt set in, but my wifes interest in me lately has made me wonder whats going on in her head..she seems conflicted but it just makes me confused and angry.. should I be positive about her behaviour or just dismiss it?

I didn't mention the lock incident as I want to see her behaviour when I see her tomorrow..


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## Tron

"Thank you for the texts, but what does it mean?"

If she makes no moves to change things then it is still just one big mind f*ck. And you need to protect yourself and ignore it. Continue to work on yourself and get yourself in a good place. Work out, do something new, something fun, change your clothes, change your hair, etc. 

Bottom line is to pay attention to what she does, not what she says.

And thus far in the past week she has intentionally locked you out of the house...


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> My ex messaged me alot during her time away, telling me it wasn't the same without me and that she was thinking about me alot. I feel like crap because If she misses me, then why do all this?


Andy, you might be right. She might be feeling guilty and therefore texting you and saying it is not the same without you is her way of relieving her guilt. IMO this is not a sign that she wants to get back with you. Probably the opposite. This is helping her feel better that she made the right decision. 

I doubt that she is doing this intentionally but she is being outright cruel by doing this. It may be better for you to communicate to her that the only discussions the two of you will have are the kids. Period.

It's looks like her behavior is exactly what you have in your thread title. She thinks she is letting her "friend" know she is having fun. That is not going to work. 

Stay strong my friend. If possible, try to read texts from her only during a specific hour time window each day. Make that a habit.


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## 3Xnocharm

Andy101 said:


> I feel like I am the last person of importance and feel completely outcast by my own family.* I have always needed a woman in my life and function best when my life is complete in that way. It's just me. *This limbo is killing me. I can't date because I am married and no woman would come near me...I cannot be with my ex because she doesn't want me. Her heart may soften....but when if ever...I'm in a bad place and can't figure a way out.


[/QUOTE]

Sorry Andy but this is completely pathetic. Number one, because you CANNOT rely on ANY other person to complete your life, that is just sad! You will never find happiness that way. Number TWO, you HAD a woman in your life, and you chose porn over her! What in hell do you need a woman for, to watch you watch porn?? To clean your house and raise your kids?? You need to get yourself some serious help and for the love of womankind, DONT DATE!! 

Stop interacting with your ex except about your children. Let her go, for both of your sakes.


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## 225985

3Xnocharm said:


> What in hell do you need a woman for, to watch you watch porn??


:surprise: Is that what they mean by "2x4"?


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## Evinrude58

Andy, as another poster said, pay attn to her actions, not her words.
You got locked out of your own house, and left behind.

Take a 180. If she wants you back, the 180 will do it. PersonAlly, I think you should just move on. Your marriage is just train wreck after train wreck. Stop the cycle. Divorce.
If you return her texts with kindness or questions, she'll just run further.
The more you pull away, the more she will try to draw you back in just a little further--- only to cast you away again. Very cruel, but it is what it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Nail

Andy,
Your wife has continuously expressed to you what she desires in your relationship. She wants you in a Committed Friendly, NONSEXUAL, relationship. You have expressed in words only that that is unacceptable to you. But your actions are proof to her that you are indeed accepting that life. 

Ball is in your court.


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## farsidejunky

Andy, don't believe what she says. Believe what she does.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## 225985

Andy, The posters on my thread were getting annoyed about me whining about the woman I was seeking. They told me to stop mentioning her in my posts and move it in another direction. Some of the better posters told me that just me typing in my thread I was keeping the woman in my thoughts. That was true. 

Same advice applies to you. I can't imagine how hard it is for you to do this, but you need to cut her out as much possible. 

Let's hear from you that YOU plan on DOING the next couple of weeks to improve your situation. Can you mention some things?


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> My ex messaged me alot during her time away, telling me it wasn't the same without me and that she was thinking about me alot. I feel like crap because If she misses me, then why do all this? I think my D4 haa been talking about me alot and maybe guilt set in, but my wifes interest in me lately has made me wonder whats going on in her head..she seems conflicted but it just makes me confused and angry.. should I be positive about her behaviour or just dismiss it?
> 
> I didn't mention the lock incident as I want to see her behaviour when I see her tomorrow..


She's feeding you breadcrumbs. You'll starve to death on those long term. Look back at your history with her.


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## Evinrude58

Have you truly stopped the porn?

It's hard for an addict to give up the high. I feel an urge to look about every two months or so, in spite of the fact that I haven't looked even once at a bikini model in over a year.

I'm assuming it's worse with you. I didn't look at porn a lot to begin with. Sometimes I see an ad with a sleek, sexy woman in it and it makes me want to look. I just have to let it go. Concentrate on things I'm doing. I see from this forum how destructive it can get. I've just been lucky that I'm not addicted to much other than a minor one with looking at tam.

I think the porn is something that has been a problem in your life and you need to get that monkey off your back. 

I hate for you to, but it would probably be a bandaid for you to date another woman, being sure to tell her the truth about your situation. Get your mind off your wife. 
She has told you what she wanted, and you keep letting her keep the leash tight. She doesn't want you, but doesn't want anyone else to have you. It happens..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

My sweet God in heaven...

Andy...

Dude....

Find that mason jar she has your nads stored in and reclaim them!


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## Andy101

Well I went round there toniggt as the kids were dying to see me. They were overjoyed...my wife gave me a hug and was glad I turned up. Only thing was...apart from being tired..she seemed tongue tied when we were alone. Didn't know what to say, although she can message me for hours! Just weird....big hug when I left...

I will think of some actions this week as to dealing with her changing behaviour. I will be more withdrawn from her tomorrow as the kids will want my full attention. 

As for posters who keep on about the porn....I got it months ago....the porn stopped. I can't change the past. I try and be supportive to my wife and she knows I am remorseful. It's moving forward and trying to keep my family together that matters now, not more finger pointing bulls$$$t....I can go to my mother in law fie that!


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## Andy101

If she is feeding me bread crumbs then so be it. The kids love to see me and that gives me strength.

I know that dating would not be a good idea as I still want my ex and I struggle to talk to women right now. 

I am in a town on my own. I moved here with my family as my wife has her job here. All I have is my family..so yeah..it's damn hard to ignore the only adult who communicates with me. I can't move away as the girls want me close by. So I am lonely and isolated. I am trying to figure what I could do with myself. Everyone at the gym has headphones in so no interaction there. I get home late so no joining clubs....and until I get my own joint, I have no TV either! Finding happiness alone is a struggle....


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## bandit.45

What did she say about changing the locks and not telling you? Or did you shy from that?


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## 225985

So tomorrow it is just you and the kids, no ex wife, right?


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## Andy101

She'll be around the house keeping a low profile. I'll say Hi and then just stay with the kids. She struggles to talk to me anyway which is odd as I've been with her 12 years..

It's easier to blank her and have fun with the girls. If she has something to say she knows where I am. She's hard work and right now..even conversations about the kids is awkward. 

I'll save the lock incident for the lawyer..the police logged an incident number, so it's documented.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Everyone at the gym has headphones in so no interaction there.


Andy

The gym is about working on you. Get into better shape and you will feel good about yourself. We all can do better. The gym is a distraction. Work out hard and try not to think about your ex. When you get into a routine of going to the gym the same time each day, people will recognize you and talk to you. They use headphone while working out but they do talk to the regulars. Become a regular. Ask a guy to spot you or ask a guy for tips on an exercise. It is not just about meeting women. You can make guy friends. Plus the guy might have a cute sister.

We read a lot here about guys saying they will never date again, then a couple months later they post that they went on their second date with a great lady.

Do this one day at a time. Enjoy the time with the kids tomorrow. And get to the gym. Every day. Otherwise you will just be sitting home without TV thinking about the ex and trying to interpret her "changing behavior".

Good luck my friend.


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## Cynthia

Andy101 said:


> Well I went round there toniggt as the kids were dying to see me. They were overjoyed...my wife gave me a hug and was glad I turned up. Only thing was...apart from being tired..she seemed tongue tied when we were alone. Didn't know what to say, although she can message me for hours! Just weird....big hug when I left...


Women hug their friends all the time. Most women I know even kiss their friends.

Why were you alone with her? Once you kiss the kids goodnight, leave. Do not stop to talk to her, except to discuss child related issues.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Andy101 said:


> I have read that sometimes pulling away emotionally can make the other spouse start chasing. It sounds odd but I wonder if anyone has successfully achieved this?


If you're only doing it to make your ex start chasing you, then you aren't going to be able to do it successfully.

Pull away emotionally for YOU. If she moves in for a hug, back away and tell her that's inappropriate.


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## Andy101

Well it was all going so well....we were getting on better and she started to feel better around me and invited me for dinner. It was great and finally she thought that I had turned a corner and she could see all the positive work I had done. Then she found out that i had been in the house and I told her that I called the police. She is now furious and doesn't want much to do with me. She made me out to be the one in the wrong and although I have every right to go in the house, she says it's ethically wrong and that no friend would have called the police. Feel like crap and after a 3 hour argument, I tried to make peace but she isn't interested. How can it all go wrong so badly in so little time? Have I been out if order for what I did? She has dragged up the past and made me pay for it. Need sone advice now....


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## 225985

We already gave you the advice you needed. Listen to @CynthiaDe - " Do not stop to talk to her, except to discuss child related issues."

Pull away emotionally and only talk to her about the kids. She is doing exactly what you/she said. What again is the title of this thread?? Keeping you as a "friend" and nothing more. 

The comment about "no friend would have called the police" says it all - you are just a friend.

You should put your foot down on this house/lock business. It is YOUR HOUSE. Why are you feeling like crap?

"finally she thought that I had turned a corner and she could see all the positive work I had done. " - What is that supposed to mean? Stop getting your hopes up. She is still manipulating you. You are prolonging and making your own suffering.


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## Cynthia

She locked you out of your own home and now she's angry with you for calling the police over it? And you are trying to calm her down? This is backwards. She is the one who should be apologizing up and down over this, not you. If you are trying to defend yourself over her anger, you are doing it wrong.

I'm sorry I don't remember this, but why did you move out? You should still be there until everything is settled. In fact, you could move back in. She is treating you like a second class citizen and she has all the power in the family, not just your relationship, but in the family. That is messed up. Take your power back man!


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## 3Xnocharm

Honestly I think she was entirely within her right to lock him out. They are separated. At this point he has no more business being in that home without her there than she would be in his. I would be highly pissed if I were her that the cops let him in.


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## Andy101

Well yes I did have every right to enter the house. I also understand her being pissed at me calling the cops. I screwed up in keeping a friendship but she is explosive by nature so she may calm down.

My issue though is that I can't do this anymore. Today was too much. The house, seeing the kids in this tense environment, my wife treating me like this. The town and all it represents...

To be honest, I am addicted to her. I think she is quite attached to me too. We argued via messages for 8 hours today. We chatted the other night via messages for 2.

I accept all your advice that this needs to stop. It's unhealthy and the highs and lows have summed up my marriage but it is all I know. 

Right guys...I can't communicate with her for a while. I know we have the kids but I'm thinking that for now maybe I should stay away from them too just to cure this addiction and get myself straight. I would continue to struggle with my feelings for her by going to the house and to be honest, I am feeling too down to entertain the kids. 

From being happy to see me last night to hating my guts this morning...its messing my head up even more than usual. How can I stop myself from constantly giving in? It's like she has a spell on me. It's killing me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> To be honest, I am addicted to her.


That is the first step. It is good that you acknowledge that to yourself. It will not be easy but you can get through this.

You know what you need to do, but you just cannot help yourself. That is understandable and normal. And the next day you feel bad. That is very normal too. Do not berate yourself. You are just a normal guy (great father) going through a very tough situation. 

Have you considered an anti-anxiety medication? I believe this was suggested in the past but you have not commented on it. There is no shame or weakness it taking a med such as Zoloft. I am taking it right now. 50 mg daily. It has helped me much.

You should discuss this with your doctor as a short term fix to help you get through this initially bad time. It may help you much. Think about it.

There is also Xanax for panic attacks. Discuss that with your doctor too. Both are very inexpensive.


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## giddiot

Andy101 said:


> Well yes I did have every right to enter the house. I also understand her being pissed at me calling the cops. I screwed up in keeping a friendship but she is explosive by nature so she may calm down.
> 
> 
> 
> My issue though is that I can't do this anymore. Today was too much. The house, seeing the kids in this tense environment, my wife treating me like this. The town and all it represents...
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, I am addicted to her. I think she is quite attached to me too. We argued via messages for 8 hours today. We chatted the other night via messages for 2.
> 
> 
> 
> I accept all your advice that this needs to stop. It's unhealthy and the highs and lows have summed up my marriage but it is all I know.
> 
> 
> 
> Right guys...I can't communicate with her for a while. I know we have the kids but I'm thinking that for now maybe I should stay away from them too just to cure this addiction and get myself straight. I would continue to struggle with my feelings for her by going to the house and to be honest, I am feeling too down to entertain the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> From being happy to see me last night to hating my guts this morning...its messing my head up even more than usual. How can I stop myself from constantly giving in? It's like she has a spell on me. It's killing me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




That reaction is called bat Sh1t crazy or BPD. Give up you can never change her and you will be caught in the push pull dynamic till you die.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Well yes I did have every right to enter the house. I also understand her being pissed at me calling the cops. I screwed up in keeping a friendship but she is explosive by nature so she may calm down.
> 
> My issue though is that I can't do this anymore. Today was too much. The house, seeing the kids in this tense environment, my wife treating me like this. The town and all it represents...
> 
> To be honest, I am addicted to her. I think she is quite attached to me too. We argued via messages for 8 hours today. We chatted the other night via messages for 2.
> 
> I accept all your advice that this needs to stop. It's unhealthy and the highs and lows have summed up my marriage but it is all I know.
> 
> Right guys...I can't communicate with her for a while. I know we have the kids but I'm thinking that for now maybe I should stay away from them too just to cure this addiction and get myself straight. I would continue to struggle with my feelings for her by going to the house and to be honest, I am feeling too down to entertain the kids.
> 
> From being happy to see me last night to hating my guts this morning...its messing my head up even more than usual. How can I stop myself from constantly giving in? It's like she has a spell on me. It's killing me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's always going to be something. If it wasnt locking you out of the house it would have been something else.

But you just keep going back for more. Why?

Your life will change when you get off this roller coaster and change it.

Until then more of the same.


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## 225985

Maybe I am projecting, but if I read Andy's words and actions, he is addicted to her. 

He hears what we are telling him but cannot (yet) change his behavior. He needs our help to that.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Andy101 said:


> Well it was all going so well....we were getting on better and she started to feel better around me and invited me for dinner. It was great and finally she thought that I had turned a corner and she could see all the positive work I had done. Then she found out that i had been in the house and I told her that I called the police. She is now furious and doesn't want much to do with me. She made me out to be the one in the wrong and although *I have every right to go in the house, she says it's ethically wrong and that no friend would have called the police.* Feel like crap and after a 3 hour argument, I tried to make peace but she isn't interested. How can it all go wrong so badly in so little time? Have I been out if order for what I did? She has dragged up the past and made me pay for it. Need sone advice now....


No friend would have locked the other owner out of the house.

Hard as it is, as addicted to her as you feel, do NOT abandon your children! They will not understand your need for distance from HER. They will only see that you are distancing yourself from THEM and they will feel abandoned by you. Take them out of the house and do things away from your ex-wife. Just because you need to avoid their mother doesn't mean you have to avoid them.


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## thenub

Whoever cares the least has the most power in any relationship. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tron

Is your wife bipolar or borderline by any chance?


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## Blondilocks

When did you become addicted to her? She isn't divorcing you because you showed her too much attention.


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## delta88

Hopeful Cynic said:


> No friend would have locked the other owner out of the house.
> 
> Hard as it is, as addicted to her as you feel, do NOT abandon your children! They will not understand your need for distance from HER. They will only see that you are distancing yourself from THEM and they will feel abandoned by you. Take them out of the house and do things away from your ex-wife. Just because you need to avoid their mother doesn't mean you have to avoid them.


This is where I am and is some great advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Andy101

Blondilicks....I became addicted to her the day I met her. She had me under her spell and she knew it! She has used my weakness for her to control our relationship ever since. I proposed after 6 months...I was smitten. My therapist thinks that in a dysfunctional way, we seem to click. We have grown so used to being in the roles we play that it will continue long after the divorce unless either I meet another narsissist that can control me or she finds a worthy victim. It's a shame that our kids are stuck in the middle, although they seem happier now that mummy and daddy aren't arguing amymore. I always gave my w attention, but she wasn't that interested. Her ipad became her new best friend. She was also very tired from work and dealing with the kids so I don't completely blame her for not engaging with me. 

The kids still see us as a family but that I live away because of work. I hate them thinking that, but it's what she has told them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Blondilicks....I became addicted to her the day I met her.
> 
> The kids still see us as a family but that I live away because of work. I hate them thinking that, but it's what she has told them.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't let her lie to the kids and make you the bad guy. Cmon, Andy these are you kids and they will resent you later. Tell them the true . That mum and dad love them but they are not able to live together . Reassure them that it is not there fault . Read up on what to tell kids. 

Do not let her poison uour relationship with the kids.


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## Andy101

Something I am noticing is that she is using our D8 as company to replace me in the evenings. She doesn't get sent to bed until 9 or 10pm. When I take the kids out, she experiences the lonliness that I go through every day and really misses them...Doesn't make her care how I feel though. Also, she told her about the locking out incident and she has told her friends at school!! One parent I am friends with asked me if I'd called the Police! So now it's common knowledge. I haven't said anything to her yet because I want calm things down as she could make my seeing the kids very awkward if I piss her off.


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## Chuck71

Yeah.... I'm late. Anyways.... it is good you admitted to being addicted to her. I want you to volunteer 

ten hours over the next month at a rehabilitation facility for heroin / cocaine users. They're sad and pathetic

looking creatures but they're trying to get better. They're also a mirror of YOU.

For others to love you.... you have to love yourself. If you are defined by others... you're not much better

off than the addicts, if at all. Your STBXW despises you until.... she needs you

HELP ME SAVE ME RESCUE ME 

But we were taught to by fairy tales.... damsel in distress. A Mr. Nice Guy / KISA will always be a 

very sought after husband. What you don't hear is they are the most likely to be cheated on by 

their Ws. Sounds schitty yeah......... but that's the way it is.

Your focus should be
1-You
2-child
14,748-Life on Titan
14,749-STBXWs emotions
14,750-If you fart in a baking soda factory, will anyone smell it?

What was your STXWs childhood like? If it has been asked.... roughly what post is it?


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## Chuck71

I would like to add a thread by a Brit..... may be easier for you to relate to.

He reminds me a lot of you. Long read but will be reading "your life" in the thread.....

The first half.... you almost want to euthanize him just to put him out of his misery.

The last..... WOW..... When he finally woke up..... I felt like the black guy on Matrix 2.... when Neo saved

Morpheus and the key-maker and he just dropped his head to the control panel in disbelief.

I was so happy for WWB I farted and wilted the wallpaper......

We who give advice are invested in your thread.... but YOU should be the one wanting to change things

more than anyone else. Below is the thread......

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...9154-separated-wife-really-want-her-back.html


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## Andy101

Chuck71

You are right in thinking that she just uses me but despises me. It has been more obvious to me in the last few hours. 

I made the mistake of trying to kiss her on the cheek as I left to take my D4 to the beach. She then messaged me to tell me to stop trying to woo her as the relationship is over permanently. Got back sun burnt on a very hot day and not even a hello or glass of water. I left...nothing more was said.

Jesus, what an idiot. I must have a hole written on my forehead. I've had it with her but a drug clinic won't cut it. I need saving from myself. My problem is that she controls my access to the kids and I have to act nice to get more time with them.

Her childhood was not good. Parents divorced bitterly when she was ten. Father tried to kill himself during separation. Mother started dating immediately, pushing stbx out of the picture. She was sent to stay with her father whilst mother was fxxking new guy. Father met new woman and lost interest in stbx aa her eldest sister was her favorite. 

She has one 3 year relationship with a guy in her home town but she wanted to move to London to be an air hostess so even though she was engaged and had a house with him..she sold up and left him. No other long term relationships until me and that was hard work keeping it all going from the start....

Not a great record. I have only has long term relationships. I left most of them myself because I couldn't stand the women. With my wife though, I really loved her, had a family , house and long term future..never expected all this.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> My problem is that she controls my access to the kids and I have to act nice to get more time with them.


Andy, my friend, I will be blunt. You have no chance of having a happy life as long as you let her control your access to the kids.

Did you finalize the separation agreement? If not, then get your a$$ back to your lawyer and get a 50/50 custody put into the agreement. If you are short on money or housing now, make the 505/50 start in July or whatever.

She will control the rest of your life AND will poison your kids if let her control this custody thing.

Let me put it another way. Unless you get 50/50 shared custody you WILL lose your kids. Is that clear enough.

No excuses. Your kids NEED a father and you agreeing to this "parties will work out custody later" type agreement you are CONDEMNING your kids to grow up without a father. How dare you allow that to happen. 

ANDY, PLEASE FIX THIS FOR YOUR KIDS' SAKE

Blue

PS I think you gave up fighting for 50/50 custody in hopes of getting your wife back. She has told you many times it will not happen. Listen to her. And get access to your kids. You are more bloody worried about the lock on the house than you kids, at least that is how I read your posts.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Not a great record. I have only has long term relationships. *I left most of them myself because I couldn't stand the women. *With my wife though, I really loved her, had a family , house and long term future..never expected all this.


Maybe your wife left you because she cannot stand you. Maybe now your will understand your wife - a person not wanting to remain in a relationship. Did you want to go back to those women? No, right? Same with her.

Fight for your kids. They are all that is left of your old family.


----------



## Andy101

She just messaged me to say that she hopes to reastablish our friendship as long as I respect her bounderies?! 

I fear it's just her trying to real me in as I was pretty pissed when I left the house earlier from dropping of D4. 

I have been reading some links on here and one thing that caught my attention is that like others...I don't know how to be alone and I also don't have a clue who I am anymore. 

I know my job as an engineer and I had to stand in a room and repremand 35 guys on Friday, so I am confident in that respect. It's when I leave the office and go back to my room that I get scared shixless. I fear of being alone. I can't detach from that woman until I can be happy alone. I have relied on other women since I was 17. I am now 43 and thought I would be happily married til the end. Now I have this unplanned issue that I can't date because:

- I am not legally divorced 
- I can't let go of my guilt and feelings for my family
- I'm scared I won' t find anyone I like
- I am not happy in myself so I could set myself up for more pain.

Any solutions to the ever increasing web I am weaving?


----------



## farsidejunky

Andy101 said:


> She just messaged me to say that she hopes to reastablish our friendship as long as I respect her bounderies?!
> 
> I fear it's just her trying to real me in as I was pretty pissed when I left the house earlier from dropping of D4.
> 
> I have been reading some links on here and one thing that caught my attention is that like others...I don't know how to be alone and I also don't have a clue who I am anymore.
> 
> I know my job as an engineer and I had to stand in a room and repremand 35 guys on Friday, so I am confident in that respect. It's when I leave the office and go back to my room that I get scared shixless. I fear of being alone. I can't detach from that woman until I can be happy alone. I have relied on other women since I was 17. I am now 43 and thought I would be happily married til the end. Now I have this unplanned issue that I can't date because:
> 
> - I am not legally divorced
> - I can't let go of my guilt and feelings for my family
> - I'm scared I won' t find anyone I like
> - I am not happy in myself so I could set myself up for more pain.
> 
> Any solutions to the ever increasing web I am weaving?


"Thank you for your honesty."

That is all you need to say.

And Andy? It should only bother you if you are getting sucked in. 

Have you ever played poker? You need your poker face with her. Smile, be non committal, and get your legal ducks in a row.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## 225985

Andy,

I too am an engineer who does not know who he is. I too am great at my work and suck on the personal relationships.

What does this mean to me? --> "She just messaged me to say that she hopes to reastablish our friendship as long as I respect her bounderies?! " It means do as I say and I will let you be my friend and I will let you see the kids. Step out of line, and you get nothing. That is what it says to me. So what does it mean to you?

Here is the point blank question: Why is this not proceeding towards divorce? 

- I am not legally divorced - So when is divorce going to happen?
- I can't let go of my guilt and feelings for my family. You cannot let go because your wife is perpetually using it against you to control you. 
- I'm scared I won' t find anyone I like. Jeez. You are at the perfect age, great guy, great job. There are a huge number of woman in UK that will find you attractive and who will not treat you like crap. You need to start looking. That is why you need to get divorced. 
- I am not happy in myself so I could set myself up for more pain. More pain than what you have now. Really, Andy, not trying to make you feel worse but it really cannot get much worse for you. That is because much of this pain is YOUR OWN MAKING.

You trust your fellow engineers right? Listen to this one.


----------



## Andy101

Yes. I agree, this 'friendship' is on her terms. She is controlling everything and knows that I am weak so either I comply or I won't be seeing the 
girls. Her drug dealer/ cleaner at work was round today apparently, to clear some rubbish to take to the tip...my D8 told me as she knows him. I don't think my stbx would lower herself to fxxk him but wouldn't surprise me. I walked out of there after taking the girls to the park, with the door shut in my face by my D8 and her pulling away when I went to kiss her just like her mum had done earlier! Unbelievable!!

My divorce will not be final for a while yet. The finances and child custody are still to be finalised by the court. Then It's a waiting game for the decree nisi and decree absolute. Maybe by Christmas? 

I was sitting in my back garden with my D4 earlier...felt surreal that it was my home and now my stbx gwts to enjoy it whilst I am cast out. Surely she can't think she can keep this up for ever? For me now it's about getting my own place and a new life, but I fear that until I find someone else...I won't be free from her games.


----------



## 225985

Can nuke the separation agreement if you do not agree on finances and custody? I wish you can get rid of the porn reference as cause for separation. Go the full two year separation route rather than this short cut.

Tell your wife that you will go to war and spend whatever it takes and get into any debt needed to make sure that she does not EVER threaten to limit your time with the children.


----------



## Andy101

You know what, I thought about contesting all her lies that are on the petition....but then I thought, at least it will be all over much sooner! I obviously would have hoped to save our marriage but I don't want to be hanging around for two more years whilst she tortures me. If she really wants out let it be done. All she wants from me is maintenance for the kids..nothing more. 60/40 split of the house which is good going for a man. More than anything, she just wants the marriage to end so she can be free and happy...and wants me to be involved with the kids.I want it to end sooner so I can find someone new! I have kept all her messages from day one so a solicitor would have some good evidence if she tried to restrict custody of the girls.

She was texting me again tonight to make small talk..she pushes me away but then can't leave me alone for long...


----------



## 225985

Your decision man. She certainly is not expected a fight from you. If you push back you might get what you want. My concern is the custody arrangement and what you will end up with because of all the lies in the petition. 

Many spouses get what they want because the other spouse wants out as fast as possible. Then, afterwards, there are the regrets. 

Analyze and execute this like an engineering problem. That is what you are damn good at.


----------



## Chuck71

Andy.......... have you noticed yet your STBXW is following her mother's actions? If she can play you....

bet the farm she will. She will use the children to her advantage. You should have to her 50 / 50

custody or you will haul her arse to court. But see... she doesn't believe a damn thing you say.

When you were M to her... and she crossed boundaries.... what happened? Let her off with a 

warning? Maybe if it was bad, she'd sling that vagina in your face?

She will never respect you until you stand up to her. Regaining your self-respect just may get you a 

better standing with the kids.

STBXW thinks the world revolves around her.... we are here to help you quell that thought.

We're same age.... I promise you if you let her dictate your life....it will be a miserable existence.....

until she's through with you and sticks her fangs into another guy. AND repeats what her mom did.


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> Yes. I agree, this 'friendship' is on her terms. She is controlling everything and knows that I am weak so either I comply or I won't be seeing the
> girls. Her drug dealer/ cleaner at work was round today apparently, to clear some rubbish to take to the tip...my D8 told me as she knows him. I don't think my stbx would lower herself to fxxk him but wouldn't surprise me. I walked out of there after taking the girls to the park, with the door shut in my face by my D8 and her pulling away when I went to kiss her just like her mum had done earlier! Unbelievable!!
> 
> My divorce will not be final for a while yet. The finances and child custody are still to be finalised by the court. Then It's a waiting game for the decree nisi and decree absolute. Maybe by Christmas?
> 
> I was sitting in my back garden with my D4 earlier...felt surreal that it was my home and now my stbx gwts to enjoy it whilst I am cast out. Surely she can't think she can keep this up for ever? For me now it's about getting my own place and a new life, *but I fear that until I find someone else...I won't be free from her games*.


Once again..... putting your happiness in the hands of others.....STOP IT

Damn.... WTF is it these days with guys? Or maybe it's just me?

News flash.... when you do find someone else.... and you will, your STBXW / XW WILL ramp up her game.

She will do her damndest to make sure your life is as miserable as humanly possible.

Another news flash.... if you keep this Co-D tendency with your LTRs.... you will attract an exact copy

of your STBXW / XW. Don't think so.... look around these boards.... see it all the time


----------



## Blondilocks

You say you have been dependent on a woman since you were 17 years old. You've never grown up. Not many women want a man who is just another child to her. You need to learn to live on your own and find happiness on your own. No one else can make you happy. What you have to offer to a woman is a plea to be taken care of.


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> You know what, I thought about contesting all her lies that are on the petition....but then I thought, at least it will be all over much sooner! I obviously would have hoped to save our marriage but I don't want to be hanging around for two more years whilst she tortures me. If she really wants out let it be done. All she wants from me is maintenance for the kids..nothing more. 60/40 split of the house which is good going for a man. More than anything, she just wants the marriage to end so she can be free and happy...and wants me to be involved with the kids.I want it to end sooner so I can find someone new! I have kept all her messages from day one so a solicitor would have some good evidence if she tried to restrict custody of the girls.
> 
> She was texting me again tonight to make small talk..she pushes me away but then can't leave me alone for long...


The worst thing in life is living with regret. Don't take that road. If you don't want those lies

in the petition... fight it. Get custody agreement locked down first.

60 / 40 huh... and that's lucky for a guy in the UK? I guess in my next life I want to come back

as a Brit female. Marry a few guys.... pop out a kid with each, take 'em all to the cleaners.

By then... I'll be around 40.... screwed my three XHs out of enough money to buy my own loft

and live off of the child support payments. No wonder MGTOW has gained popularity.


----------



## SunCMars

Andy101 said:


> She just messaged me to say that she hopes to reastablish our friendship as long as I respect her bounderies?!
> 
> I fear it's just her trying to real me in as I was pretty pissed when I left the house earlier from dropping of D4.
> 
> I have been reading some links on here and one thing that caught my attention is that like others...I don't know how to be alone and I also don't have a clue who I am anymore.
> 
> I know my job as an engineer and I had to stand in a room and repremand 35 guys on Friday, so I am confident in that respect. It's when I leave the office and go back to my room that I get scared shixless. I fear of being alone. I can't detach from that woman until I can be happy alone. I have relied on other women since I was 17. I am now 43 and thought I would be happily married til the end. Now I have this unplanned issue that I can't date because:
> 
> - I am not legally divorced
> - I can't let go of my guilt and feelings for my family
> - I'm scared I won' t find anyone I like
> - I am not happy in myself so I could set myself up for more pain.
> 
> Any solutions to the ever increasing web I am weaving?


My older daughter got divorced and then remarried a 43 old man. He is a great guy and provider. Never married, he sowed his oats and then settled down with her. They now have two kids 6 and 4 and are great parents.

It can be done. Quit whining and get with it. As far as dating, let her know that you are contemplating it. This will put her on notice that she needs to poop or get off the pot. If you are up-front about it, it is not cheating [it is immoral]. It will greatly complicate matters if you do reconciliation.............that ain't happening as I see it. 

It appears that she is pooped out already. *She ate the Soon-to-be EX-lax a little prematurely, Eh?. 
*
This is OK. People fall out of love all the time. Why make you and her miserable? Get a divorce and get on with your life.

Do not let her call the shots. Once divorced you will see that she did you a favor. The cold calculating she-gal [off-flapping sea-gull] will be off your back and out of your future. 

Get a lawyer.....others have said this for GOOD reason.

You have great potential. Many women would be glad to call you "dear".

Start getting in shape and dressing better, do the grooming stuff that women like. Once you start dating, you will get your V-Belt groove back and aligned.

Men [Cro-Magnums] have lived on the Earth tens of thousands of
years. WTH! Do not assume you are a "special" case.

43 is young.

Oh, do not make the same mistakes with the new women.


----------



## Marc878

You're stuck on this merry go round until you want to get off bad enough.

You're an engineer. Lay out what you want your life to be then work out what you have to do to get there.

Until you can detach rom your stbx you're stuck man.


----------



## Cynthia

Andy101 said:


> Yes. I agree, this 'friendship' is on her terms. She is controlling everything and knows that I am weak so either I comply or I won't be seeing the
> girls. Her drug dealer/ cleaner at work was round today apparently, to clear some rubbish to take to the tip...my D8 told me as she knows him. I don't think my stbx would lower herself to fxxk him but wouldn't surprise me. I walked out of there after taking the girls to the park, with the door shut in my face by my D8 and her pulling away when I went to kiss her just like her mum had done earlier! Unbelievable!!
> 
> My divorce will not be final for a while yet. The finances and child custody are still to be finalised by the court. Then It's a waiting game for the decree nisi and decree absolute. Maybe by Christmas?
> 
> I was sitting in my back garden with my D4 earlier...felt surreal that it was my home and now my stbx gwts to enjoy it whilst I am cast out. Surely she can't think she can keep this up for ever? For me now it's about getting my own place and a new life, but I fear that until I find someone else...I won't be free from her games.


#1 You do not allow your daughter to treat you like that. You explain to her that you two should always have each other's back and treating each other like that is not having each other's back, but it is unloving and unkind. She is not to treat you like that again.
#2 Why did you move out in the first place?
#3 Can you legally move back in? If your stbx doesn't like it, she can move out and the tables will be turned.



Andy101 said:


> You know what, I thought about contesting all her lies that are on the petition....but then I thought, at least it will be all over much sooner! I obviously would have hoped to save our marriage but I don't want to be hanging around for two more years whilst she tortures me. If she really wants out let it be done. All she wants from me is maintenance for the kids..nothing more. 60/40 split of the house which is good going for a man. More than anything, she just wants the marriage to end so she can be free and happy...and wants me to be involved with the kids.I want it to end sooner so I can find someone new! I have kept all her messages from day one so a solicitor would have some good evidence if she tried to restrict custody of the girls.
> 
> She was texting me again tonight to make small talk..she pushes me away but then can't leave me alone for long...


You do not have to let her torture you. It goes both ways. Not that I'm suggesting you fight with her, but that you put her in her place. You can work together to make this easy and best for the kids or she can choose to be a ***** and you will not make it worth her while.
Do not respond to her when she texts you. She is teasing you and playing you. Don't bite the bait.


----------



## 225985

Chuck71 said:


> Damn.... *WTF is it these days with guys? * Or maybe it's just me?


There are lot of us broken guys our there. There is why we are at this site. Some might be able to get their **** together. Others are just hopeless. 

IMO Andy can get his **** together. The woman only has power over him because he GAVE it to her. He can take it back, if he wants to.

Andy, We know you THINK you are addicted to her, but that is really all in your head. Yes, it will be tough to change your thinking but you have the most powerful weapon on your side. It is your love for you children. Use that love for them to fight back against these addictive feelings and to resist your wife's control. Fight for you kids and use that strength you will find doing that to get control back for yourself.

If you just take the easy path - short path to divorce (lies in the petition) in which wife has all the control, then you are going to lose your kids - lose your time with them, maybe lose custody, and quite frankly lose the respect they have for you. Your wife will and is poisoning them against you just so that she can control you. How evil is that? Don't you see it? We do because you have TOLD US THIS. 

You can do this man.


----------



## Andy101

Thanks guys. I appreciate your support. I wish I could buy you all a beer!

I know she is playing games but what's scary is that I don't think she realises it half the time. She is very matter of fact and precise in everything she does. She shows me tenderness but then goes cold. The lock incident has put everything on ice and she says that she is not easy to get around and that she will 'forgive' me in her own time. 

I know that pulling away from her will get to her but I need to get along so I can see my girls more. I saw a lawyer at work today, I showed him the financial papers and he said it was a good deal and to sign immediately before she gets greedy. I have signed them now so that should get things moving with the court.

I think she would need a shock to change her mind about our marriage. The best way would be someone else as she would loose control. The thing is, if and when I look at dating, I'll do it for me and my happiness and not to get her back.

She has this idea that we are just going to continue to co-parent in this torturous relationship. She can call on me when it suits. The kids though, get to see me alot and love daddy coming over but that would be restricted if a third party was involved It's a hard call at the moment. 

I also feel terribly lonely. Seeing the kids and my stbx fills that void. I feel that even though she treats me like dirt, it's better than no company at all...sad but true...


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your support. I wish I could buy you all a beer!


Here is the beer Andy. :toast:

What about getting the kids one phone to share so that they can call you or you them or text them without having STBXW involved?

I have seen phones that just do text and call, and only to the numbers you program (just your number, not your ex.)


----------



## Andy101

Good idea blue but I think they would fight over a phone and either break it or have it confiscated as a result of jealous arguing!


----------



## Cynthia

Andy101 said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your support. I wish I could buy you all a beer!
> 
> I know she is playing games but what's scary is that I don't think she realises it half the time. She is very matter of fact and precise in everything she does. She shows me tenderness but then goes cold. The lock incident has put everything on ice and she says that she is not easy to get around and that she will 'forgive' me in her own time. .


Tell her there is nothing for her to forgive. It's what she did that's the problem. Good grief, Andy. Man up. She is something else and you are letting her walk all over you.


----------



## Chuck71

Andy.... keep in mind, this chaos is all she took from her childhood. She never dealt with it when she became

an adult so.... reason it is still encompassing her.

Doing the 180 is for you... not her. Improving yourself is for you.... not her.

Only her can fix her.... to deal with her past.

As Blue mentioned..... get a phone and practice using it when they are with you.

Try sending one with the oldest in near future.... see how it goes.

From your view.... you can either be alone and miserable or interact with STBXW and still be miserable.

But she is the one..... making you miserable.


----------



## Cynthia

I'm sorry, Andy. I think it was a bit harsh to say "man up." What I mean is that you are already a man. Stop letting your stbx walk all over you. Be the man that you are. You are setting an example for your children. Show them what they should expect of a man.


----------



## Andy101

No problem cynthiaDe. I know what you mean.

Today I started to feel a kind of resentment towards my stbx. She messaged me to tell me that her closest friend is expecting another child. Both our kids are the same age and the family continue to live a normal life and were jealous of us at times as we were so close as a family. Guess I'm pissed at what once was. 

I am also quite angry that she has now restricted my access to the children to one hour twice a week and a few hours over the weekend. There us nothing I can do as it is still deemed 'adequate' and regular contact. She is trying to punish me for calling the police, which should not involve the children but she just says she just doesn't want to be around me too much! But what had that got to do with my girls??

I am starting to get sick of her. I'm finding that her behaviour is souring my feelings for her. I am in disbelief that someone who was supposed to stick by me could be so cruel. We were best friends yet now I am treated like dirt. I really want to drop the rope. I want to move on, especially after seeing my D4 asking me to stay with her tonight...it was heart breaking. Please help me get her out of my head....


----------



## Lostinthought61

if you want more access to the children then you need to file for divorce so you can more access to the children.


----------



## 225985

Xenote said:


> if you want more access to the children then you need to file for divorce so you can more access to the children.


Yes, this is pretty much it. 

Andy, You are letting this happen. We cannot help you here.

Not fighting this is the choice you made. 

In a few weeks she will give you a few more hours added to what you have now until she does not like something you do, then she will punish you again.

This is the wonderful, addicting person you married? 

Maybe the UK does not do 50/50 joint custody. IDK.


----------



## Andy101

No blue..she is not the addicive person I married. Today a colleague of mine told me to get a grip or I'll go mad. Simple words but true. I sent the financial papers today so now I have to wait for the court. I feel I have given it my all. I have to detach now as I have no choice. I can't be held to ransome by her or anyone. I'll back off now and concentrate on me. I'll leave seeing the kids for a bit. I can't do one hour here and there. I'd rather not see them at all until I am free from her control. Once I am stronger, and have some money...I'll take her to court and apply for joint custody. The problem in the UK is that the mother usually wins and fathers don't have many rights. I would still have to negotiate with her to have access. I'm better off just getting her out of my life and go NC for a period of time and once I am free, her games won't work. I still need ideas on how to get her out of my head though.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> No .she is not the addicive person I married.


That is a good sign you are finally feeling that. You already know this but you are now feeling this is true.

You know UK laws on custody better than us. I know you are doing the best you can. You are right not to accept the one hour limits. Just say no. Your greatest power right now is to tell her no. She probably never heard that and will try to reel you in.

Your colleague must be an engineer.


----------



## Chuck71

Who exactly sets up temp custody there when a couple separates?

Try every angle to get the kids more.... when you do, you pizz her off and she lashes out at you....

Using the kids to get to you.... this is only if you can look beyond her "anger dumps"

Why.... if you distance yourself from the kids, you distance yourself from her. She does not want that.

She too much enjoys trying to control you.

"Wiggle easy until your head is out of the lion's mouth"


----------



## Andy101

Get this....
My stbx messaged me to say that she feels sad because it will be our 10th wedding anniversary ...she had booked the ritz..but now it will be just a normal day...

How do I respond to that?


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> How do I respond to that?


You don't. Please don't. Listen to your work colleague/friend.

ETA: She wants to hear that you too are sad and miss her. It strokes here ego. You know what.


----------



## dubsey

Andy101 said:


> Get this....
> My stbx messaged me to say that she feels sad because it will be our 10th wedding anniversary ...she had booked the ritz..but now it will be just a normal day...
> 
> How do I respond to that?


"Please stop messaging me unless it has something to do with our children. I have no desire to be your friend, only to be the best co-parents we can possibly be."


----------



## Satya

That's good. I'd cut it down even further. 



dubsey said:


> "Please stop messaging me unless it has something to do with our children."


----------



## Andy101

Well I answered with telling her that I had posted the financial papers regarding our divorce and she should receive them shortly.....she then decided to restrict my seeing the kids to one hour once a week! She is unbelievable.


----------



## ButtPunch

Andy101 said:


> Well I answered with telling her that I had posted the financial papers regarding our divorce and she should receive them shortly.....she then decided to restrict my seeing the kids to one hour once a week! She is unbelievable.


Save that text.....A judge will hammer her for restricting access like that.


----------



## Chuck71

Again...... who set up the temp child visitation / living arrangements?


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Well I answered with telling her that I had posted the financial papers regarding our divorce and she should receive them shortly.....she then decided to restrict my seeing the kids to one hour once a week! She is unbelievable.


Doesn't she want a divorce? Or is a divorce a threat to her because she will lose control over you?


----------



## Chuck71

blueinbr said:


> Doesn't she want a divorce? Or is a divorce a threat to her because she will lose control over you?


Not unless she can string him along! A spouse who fears losing control may scream / threaten D

but would almost never follow through.

Although her handbag would be heavier with CS payments, it would also mean she has to

give up power over him and become independent / self sufficient.

But as Marx says.... no one gives up power willingly


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Well I answered with telling her that I had posted the financial papers regarding our divorce and she should receive them shortly.....she then decided to restrict my seeing the kids to one hour once a week! She is unbelievable.


It was to be expected. She would have "punished" you if you gave any response other than that you missed her too (although she really does not miss you, sorry to say that.)

When is your next "one hour"? It might be the toughest thing you have ever done but can you NOT do the one hour visit? Either decline it or not show up? She needs to see the consequences for HER actions and words. In the long run, missing some "one hour" crumbs will be worth it to break free of her control.

Is it getting close to beer time by you yet? :toast:

BTW, save, including a separate backup, every post you get from her. It also underscores the need for texting rather than voice/phone communication between you cannot save phone calls. Txts may work against her.


----------



## ButtPunch

I know that in most US states unless there is a court order determining visitation you are allowed to keep your children as often as you see fit under the law. I don't see why the kids aren't seeing you at least 50% of the time.


----------



## ButtPunch

blueinbr said:


> He is in the UK, not the US. From Andy in an earlier post "The problem in the UK is that the mother usually wins and fathers don't have many rights."


I understand that but I have a hard time believing that in the UK a woman can decide IF a father gets to see his kids or not.

They are his kids and there is no custody arrangement besides the sh*tty precedent he is establishing now.


----------



## bandit.45

Andy101 said:


> Well I answered with telling her that I had posted the financial papers regarding our divorce and she should receive them shortly.....she then decided to restrict my seeing the kids to one hour once a week! She is unbelievable.


She cannot restrict anything. Tell her you will be over to pick up the kids or you will have the cops with you when you do. 

She's not a judge. She has no authority to keep you from seeing your kids. 

Get that lawyer's ass in gear and make sure he files for equal visitation.


----------



## Chuck71

I asked twice how it was set up. My guess is she set it up, Andy agreed in hopes of winning her back.

Hey Andy.... how's that working out for you?


----------



## bandit.45

ButtPunch said:


> I understand that but I have a hard time believing that in the UK a woman can decide IF a father gets to see his kids or not.
> 
> They are his kids and there is no custody arrangement besides the sh*tty precedent he is establishing now.


Is he Brit? 

Aw hell. He's screwed.


----------



## ButtPunch

Chuck71 said:


> I asked twice how it was set up. My guess is she set it up, Andy agreed in hopes of winning her back.
> 
> Hey Andy.... how's that working out for you?


This is what I am getting from this thread also. 

Andy you are going to have to find your NUTS.

She tries to hold you hostage start missing support payments. 

You aren't court ordered to pay anything yet anyway.

Tell her the deal where she keeps the house is off. Hell move back in for that matter. Then you see the kids on your terms.

You my friend are getting worked over like pizza dough.


----------



## Chuck71

And the CS payments you withhold.... set that up in an account just in case the courts ask you to

back pay. ReGroup was advised of this and it worked.

I do hope you have separated the accounts by now......

Who came up with the CS $ agreement? Lemme guess....

If the home is in your / both names... move BACK in TONIGHT!

Lemme guess.... you're paying the mortgage while she's there and you're not......

If you move back in you are no longer obligated to pay any CS and if I'm paying a mortgage,

by schit I better be living there.


----------



## Cynthia

If you stop seeing the kids, that will be considered abandonment. How do you think your children would feel to be abandoned by you? Who is important here? It seems like you put yourself above your kids and cannot handle your own emotions. Frankly, that is being a terrible father. Pick the kids up and take them to a park. Or move back into the house. I do not understand how you can just act like a puppet on a string. Use your backbone. You don't have to get angry with her to have a backbone. You just stand up and do what's right.

Your kids are going to end up with emotional problems is you don't resolve this properly. These children are your responsibility.


----------



## Andy101

Well there has not been any visitation rights set up except what she has "agreed" with me. 

She changes the rules to suit her mood and my next one hour is next monday!! It was originally 3 times then two and now one. She playing games. One minute messaging a spiteful message then trying to joke with me. My responses are now all the same...formal and polite. No joking or arguing. I have obviously kept all the messages since 2015 and will let her hang her self. I am tempted to go along with her plan. I would rather not see the kids for a while if it means getting her out of my head. She is being very cruel but if she keeps it up, I will be seeing my lawyer. I can see what she is doing and as my best friend said...she has done this the whole marriage but now I can finally see it from a safe distance. I am now being aloof and only answering with one or very brief replies. She messages me every day with either a jab or something relating to the kids so that I am forced to answer. She is wondering why I have gone quiet and it must be killing her that I am not being my usual friendly self. Her spell is slowly breaking but I am worried what she will try next if she isn't getting to me.


----------



## Chuck71

Can't be termed abandonment when Nurse Ratchet dictates visitation and changes it daily.

Pack your bags Andy...... move back home!

Walk in, ask, "What's for dinner honey?" Have the widest smile possible.


----------



## 225985

@CynthiaDe Well I gave OP bad advice then. I withdraw my advice and concur with CD.


----------



## Blondilocks

If you want as much custody as you can get, you better see those kids every chance you can get. She can keep records, too. How's it going to look when she says 'well, I offered visitation on this day and that day and these other days and he refused. he didn't want to see them'. Don't make your kids suffer and spoil your chances just because she's a loon.


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## Chuck71

Andy..... (I'm having Shawshank Redemption flashbacks) here is

what happens. My wait for D was 60 days. I stayed at the house

the first thirty while she... ran the roads half the time. Did she cheat....

dunno.... didn't give a damn, walking out on the M was enough for me.

The final thirty days, I stayed in one of my rental duplexes. My then STBXW

did cover some bills but expected me to cover two middle-sized ones.

One I did not pay... I was not at the house and I be damned if I was

going to pay for it (in her name). The other... electric bill (this was January).... 

I at first thought I was not paying it either.... let her arse freeze to death.

Then I learned there was a huge "reconnection fee".... so I put on my

profiling hat and decided to pay it..... only after I took one of our checks

and took out the exact amount from checking right after her check was 

deposited. Up to then... she was reaching often (well documented in my 

old thread) and even said she wanted us to date before D final... "maybe we 

could start another flame....it's up to you" BUT that was after she learned

I paid the electric bill. Hmmm.... when I told her I was getting the $ back,

she seemed okay with it. Then she learned I took it out of the account WTF??

Irate was an understatement..... but this was done to show her hand.

A-Leave the door open to maybe....... IF she was okay with me "not 

paying her to leave" or B-Shutting the door and throwing away the key....

if she was upset I held her accountable.

She expected me to keep up the bills while she stayed at my house (yes I

got the house) and I would stay there maybe.... one night a week.

Andy... I gave her exactly what she wanted, that is how you treat defiant

people. She thought she was getting to cake eat but she got a schit

sandwich. She tried to act like an entitled princess and.... overplayed

her hand. She showed her hand.... game over.

You'd be surprised at her (and others) reaction if you set your boundaries

and let her / them know you don't take schit.

BTW.... for future reference... women love men who stand up for themselves.


----------



## TRy

Andy101 said:


> Well there has not been any visitation rights set up except what she has "agreed" with me.
> 
> She changes the rules to suit her mood and my next one hour is next monday!! It was originally 3 times then two and now one. She playing games. One minute messaging a spiteful message then trying to joke with me.


 She has lost her moral compass, so stop following in her path. If she is not keeping her end of the deal, then the deal is off. It is your house, so move back in even if you have to sleep on a blow up bed on the floor. Ignore her when she complains and lawyer up. You will pay dearly both financially and in rights to your children if you continue with the path that you are taking.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Andy101 said:


> No blue..she is not the addicive person I married. Today a colleague of mine told me to get a grip or I'll go mad. Simple words but true. I sent the financial papers today so now I have to wait for the court. I feel I have given it my all. I have to detach now as I have no choice. I can't be held to ransome by her or anyone. I'll back off now and concentrate on me. I'll leave seeing the kids for a bit. I can't do one hour here and there. I'd rather not see them at all until I am free from her control. Once I am stronger, and have some money...I'll take her to court and apply for joint custody.* The problem in the UK is that the mother usually wins and fathers don't have many rights.* I would still have to negotiate with her to have access. I'm better off just getting her out of my life and go NC for a period of time and once I am free, her games won't work. I still need ideas on how to get her out of my head though.


Gee, maybe that's because fathers are pushovers around there or something.

I don't know what your UK laws are like, but where I am, there's something called Status Quo, which basically means that a judge likes to continue with what the parents have set up on their own. Something about maintaining stability for the children.

So if you roll over now and let her boss you around and hardly ever see the children, or worse still, you react by refusing to see the children, a judge is NOT going to fix that access problem for you. A judge will say "he doesn't seem interested in the children, all time to the mother."

You pick up those children, and take them to a movie, take them to a playground, take them to your home, take them to an amusement park for the day. Your ex does not have to see you around the house, you don't have to see her and be reminded of what you lost, and the children get a long time with their dad. It's win win for ALL of you.

But whatever you do, don't set a precedent of never seeing the children, or you really will NEVER see them again.

The way to get her out of your head is to keep busy with other things. Find new hobbies. Volunteer some place. Join a club. Find some Meetups. Take a class somewhere. Work overtime.

If she texts you a lot, don't read them. Send stuff to a spam folder and only look at it when you feel emotionally ready to deal with it. Send ONE reply that addresses all the accumulated questions of any relevance to the children.


----------



## Andy101

Chuck71, Moving back home would be a living hell. She would go crazy and it would affect the children badly. I'm not going back in there. Period. 

I can apply for mediation if we cannot agree amicably. What I am concerned about is how changeable she is so having something drawn up maybe the best solution. 

I'll see today if she had just overlooked my Friday visit by accident....then I'll want to hear some good excuses. ..


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> Chuck71,* Moving back home would be a living hell. She would go crazy and it would affect the children badly*. I'm not going back in there. Period.
> 
> I can apply for mediation if we cannot agree amicably. What I am concerned about is how changeable she is so having something drawn up maybe the best solution.
> 
> I'll see today if she had just overlooked my Friday visit by accident....then I'll want to hear some good excuses. ..


And your current state is...........................

Her actions are already............. 



And her problems should not be of your concern

She will go ballistic because.... she is losing control.



You are letting her control you

until you stand up to her, this cycle WILL continue


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> Chuck71, Moving back home would be a living hell. She would go crazy and it would affect the children badly. I'm not going back in there. Period.
> 
> *I can apply for mediation if we cannot agree amicably*. What I am concerned about is how changeable she is so having something drawn up maybe the best solution.
> 
> I'll see today if she had just overlooked my Friday visit by accident....then I'll want to hear some good excuses. ..


LOL IF...... if? It's already been clearly stated you and her can't. And you haven't applied yet?

WTF are you waiting on? Oh.... you want her back..... *eyeroll* WHY?

You tip-toeing around her is NOT attractive. It's actually disgusting her.

This will continue until you are sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Start the 180 hard...... NC minus kid issues (yes this is where she hooks you)

Read the thread below

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence-3.html


----------



## ButtPunch

Andy101 said:


> Chuck71, Moving back home would be a living hell. She would go crazy and it would affect the children badly. I'm not going back in there. Period.
> 
> I can apply for mediation if we cannot agree amicably. What I am concerned about is how changeable she is so having something drawn up maybe the best solution.
> 
> I'll see today if she had just overlooked my Friday visit by accident....then I'll want to hear some good excuses. ..


Andy.....She is going to win big time continuing like you are.

Get back in the house and VAR her blowups. Call the cops
if you have too.


----------



## farsidejunky

Every time you complain about what she does with time with the kids, I want you to finish the sentence with "...because I allow her to".

Get out of the victim chair and f****** act.  Boys talk. Men act.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

farsidejunky said:


> Every time you complain about what she does with time with the kids, I want you to finish the sentence with "...because I allow her to".
> 
> Get out of the victim chair and f****** act. Boys talk. Men act.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


He's related to kindme77


----------



## 225985

Chuck71 said:


> He's related to kindme77


I agree but he is also a freaking engineer, a damn good one. He can do this!!!!!!!!


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> She messages me every day with either a jab or something relating to the kids so that I am forced to answer.


No Andy, you are not FORCED to answer. The kids are not in imminent threat of death. She is not texting you from the ER. It is her form of manipulation. Try going No Contact for just 24 hours. 



Andy101 said:


> Chuck71, *Moving back home would be a living hell. *She would go crazy and it would affect the children badly. I'm not going back in there. Period.
> 
> I'll see today if she had just overlooked my Friday visit by accident....then I'll want to hear some good excuses. ..


What! When did moving into YOUR house become an option? I thought the settlement/agreement that you signed gave her the house. 

WTF Andy? The kids are ALREADY affected. Who cares if she goes ballistic. Oh right, you do! And do you know WHY she will go "ballistic"? It is to control you. And it works. 

Move into the house. Ignore her yelling and raves. She ONLY is doing that for control, not because she is really upset. And she is quite good at it. No, she is very very good at that.

Why were you pissed about the locks? Maybe because she locked you out of YOUR HOUSE?

Move back home to see your kids and to save money so that later you can fight her once you no longer are emotionally addicted to you. By now you must see the person she really is, right?

Stop wasting money on a hotel or leased bedroom. Save that for you and for your kids. Can you do this?

Not sure what field of engineering you are, but are you familiar with a negative feedback loop? You are in one now and your wife sets the control point and dials you in to whatever she wants. And you just sit back and wait "to hear some good excuses. ."

Switch to a positive feedback loop. You know what that is.

Do a failure analysis of your current plan and current thinking. It has high risk of failure.

Do a risk/benefit analysis of moving back to the house. IMO the risk is WELL WORTH THE BENEFIT.

Blue


----------



## Chuck71

Also.... have a VAR on you at ALL times. If she leaves the house (does she work?) set up nanny cams.

When you move back in.... the first thing she will do is try getting a restraining order against you.

That's where the VAR / nanny cams come in. Do not put it past her to rip a top, scratch herself....

say you did it. The second..... she is a control / manipulation freak. She may come after you.....

If so.... call the paddywagon and lock her arse up a night or two.

That would be abandonment on her part now wouldn't it? Holy schit!

Your gameplan for fighting with her is working as well as someone pizzing in a dry creek bed.

You have to change up your strategy when you deal with delusional people.


----------



## Andy101

God you guys are militant! 
Today I tried a different approach. I first demanded to see the kids after she told me that her mother was staying for the weekend. I am a much higher priority than that old witch! I told her that one hour in the week was not acceptable. She then said you can come over for one hour tonight then. So I collected my D8 from her club, and returned to the house. I decided to speak to my stbx a little and she responded. We conversed a bit more as I asked her questions about her day etc and ended up spending three hours with the girls and leaving on good terms. 

So it seems that if I butter her up..not with compliments but general chit chat, she is more amenable.

Lets face it, she changes like the weather and I am going to get good days and bad, but if I can navigate her moods better, I will get results. We'll see what she pulls out of the bag next!


----------



## ButtPunch

Andy101 said:


> Lets face it, she changes like the weather and I am going to get good days and bad, but if I can navigate her moods better, I will get results. We'll see what she pulls out of the bag next!


Seriously! That's your plan.

Butter her up so she won't be mad and will let you see the kids. 

SMDH


----------



## 225985

It's a good plan. Kiss her a$$ and get rewarded, challenge her and get punished.

I suggest that you make a calendar and mark with hearts the days you will be nice to her and ...... Oh, never mind.


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> God you guys are militant!
> Today I tried a different approach. I first demanded to see the kids after she told me that her mother was staying for the weekend. I am a much higher priority than that old witch! I told her that one hour in the week was not acceptable. She then said you can come over for one hour tonight then. So I collected my D8 from her club, and returned to the house. I decided to speak to my stbx a little and she responded. We conversed a bit more as I asked her questions about her day etc and ended up spending three hours with the girls and leaving on good terms.
> 
> So it seems that if I butter her up..not with compliments but general chit chat, she is more amenable.
> 
> Lets face it, she changes like the weather and I am going to get good days and bad, but if I can navigate her moods better, I will get results. We'll see what she pulls out of the bag next!


We don't tell you what you WANT to hear..... we tell you what you NEED to hear.

Following the advice..... is up to you.

BTW.... she is still leading you around by your wanker.

You were pre-warned how your W would be by hearing the background of her mother.

Like mother..... like daughter.

Didn't her dad try to commit suicide?

Something to think about.

No one can get you out of the victim chair but YOU.


----------



## Andy101

Oh. Sorry guys...news flash....she had started messaging me asking how I got into the house the other day. I told her I picked the lock but should not have had to.

She has now sent me a string of abusive messages calling me names and that she is changing the locks???!

I left the house earlier and everything was fine. WTF??


----------



## Marc878

This is your life and apparently you're willing to accept it. Why are you shocked at this behavior?


----------



## Evinrude58

I've stopped posting on your thread, but follow it.
Geez, how can you even act surprised at her behavior at this point?????

You are one of the worst I've seen at taking advice. I think you even beat me, when I was going through the worst of mine. I know it's hard, but when are you going to stop letting this person emotionally destroy you? 
You're addicted to her? O.k., well you're addicted to a lot of things. You stopped one addiction easily, according to you. Stop this one.

Go by and get your kids when you feel like it. How can she POSSIBLY stop you? Does she have a court order, a divorce decree, or a custody agreement ON PAPER?
NO? Well you can get YOUR kids whenever the hell you feel like it, then. Right?

And, you've been told to move back into your house and save money for a lawyer. Have you done it? Why not? You're afraid of your wife? Well you shouldn't be. 

Aw hell, I'm wasting my time. Back to work.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Oh. Sorry guys...news flash....she had started messaging me asking how I got into the house the other day. I told her I picked the lock but should not have had to.
> 
> She has now sent me a string of abusive messages calling me names and that she is changing the locks???!
> 
> I left the house earlier and everything was fine. WTF??


You have to ask WTF??? You challenged her and now you are to be punished.

Now, put your balls back in their sack and text her "Fine, change the locks on my house, I have the locksmith on 1hr notice retainer".

Why the F did you tell her you picked the lock? Text her ONLY about the kids and ONLY when necessary.


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> Oh. Sorry guys...news flash....she had started messaging me asking how I got into the house the other day. I told her I picked the lock but should not have had to.
> 
> She has now sent me a string of abusive messages calling me names and that she is changing the locks???!
> 
> I left the house earlier and everything was fine. WTF??


You taught her how to treat you..... look in the mirror.... that's WTF is wrong.

If you think it is bad now..... LOL.... you haven't seen schit yet.

But.... your life..... you got "it covered" *eyeroll*


----------



## Cynthia

Andy, As a woman, I would find your behavior to be off putting to say the least. Women want men not boys. You are not acting like a mature man. She changed the locks on your house and she is angry that you got in? She is angry that you called the police? And you are paying her bills? Who gave her this power? You. Only you.

And you're afraid to move back into your own house because you are afraid of her. To a woman, that is death to a relationship. It's kind of gross.


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## Chuck71

Gross is an understatement..... she is just being nice.

Andy what was your childhood like with your parents?


----------



## farsidejunky

Andy101 said:


> Oh. Sorry guys...news flash....she had started messaging me asking how I got into the house the other day. I told her I picked the lock but should not have had to.
> 
> She has now sent me a string of abusive messages calling me names and that she is changing the locks???!
> 
> I left the house earlier and everything was fine. WTF??


"Because I let her."

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia

Andy101 said:


> God you guys are militant!
> Today I tried a different approach. I first demanded to see the kids after she told me that her mother was staying for the weekend. I am a much higher priority than that old witch! I told her that one hour in the week was not acceptable. She then said you can come over for one hour tonight then. So I collected my D8 from her club, and returned to the house. I decided to speak to my stbx a little and she responded. We conversed a bit more as I asked her questions about her day etc and ended up spending three hours with the girls and leaving on good terms.
> 
> So it seems that if I butter her up..not with compliments but general chit chat, she is more amenable.
> 
> Lets face it, she changes like the weather and I am going to get good days and bad, but if I can navigate her moods better, I will get results. We'll see what she pulls out of the bag next!


Being demanding is not what I'm talking about. You are their father. She cannot tell you when you can and cannot see your own children any more than you can do that to her. This is ridiculous. You don't get angry. You don't demand. You simply state what you are going to do.
Tell her she is to give you keys for the new locks or you are moving back in immediately. You tell her that you do not appreciate her locking you out of your own home and will not stand for it. You don't tell her what to do, but you tell her what you are going to do.
And calling her mother an "old witch" is childish and rude. Good grief. Stop being ruled by your emotions and start using some logic.


----------



## Blondilocks

Chuck71 said:


> He's related to kindme77


Don't forget NP5 when it comes to taking action. Three years later that man is still batshyte crazy.


----------



## Andy101

Moving back in is no longer an option anyway. The locks have been changed and a security system installed. I told her she has to give me a key but she has refused. She says that I have no business going there whilst she is out. She is prepared to sell the house rather than have me having access to it. Apparently her lawyer said that I cannot go back as it would be harrassment. I don't believe that. She continues to state that I broke in and had no right to do so. She has since thrown crap from the past at me constantly for hours. I only answered politely denying any wrong doing as these messages are my evidence. 

I told her that I am paying the mortgage to keep the children in their home as they have had enough changes in their lives and that she doesn't even appreciate it. She said she doesn't care and would rather be in a small appartment than have me have power over her with the house. I am now contemplating selling up. She said that if I break in again, she will force a sale. Looks like the house has become the leverage between us. 

She also can't understand why my D4 idolises me. She thinks that if she was older she wouldn't want to be near me!! Just really cruel hurtful stuff.

I need to think weather I'll even stay in the area now. I can collect the kids every other weekend when I get a place but no need to live so close anymore.


----------



## ButtPunch

Sell it


----------



## Chuck71

Blondilocks said:


> Don't forget NP5 when it comes to taking action. Three years later that man is still batshyte crazy.


You are correct! NP5 at times, seemed like he was about to do something but.... his latest

thread was all I really saw. I see a lot of guys (couple I know personally) who are scared to pull

the trigger for fear of losing their home (50/50 split *at best* but income is 80/20), kids (only recently has

50/50 *at best* became prevalent), child support, 50% retirement, alimony. As long as it is not

horrible and they're roommates.... most stay.

One friend who is about to post here explained it as "at 27 I was M, great W, kids, great job, endless 

upward potential" and now "at 37, will be D, deeply in debt, have "part time" kids now, company 

downsized and now I'm working a job I could have gotten right out of high school..... what fvcking women

in her right mind would want me now? I'm damaged goods. Truly my life ended at 36."

A lot of men hate women because of endings as this. Truth told..... 98% of the D laws on the books

were put there.... from men. Men from an entirely different time... most of their views are no longer

relevant in today's world. Yet.... nothing seems to change or if so..... snail pace.


----------



## Cynthia

Sorry, I don't remember if your wife makes any money or not? What is her income compared to yours? How many hours a week does she work?


----------



## Andy101

She has a job but relies on commission as she works in sales. She could never have a mortgage on her own. She works part time but earns a full time salary in effect. If she looses the house, she would be renting unless she meets someone else to live with.


----------



## ButtPunch

Andy101 said:


> She has a job but relies on commission as she works in sales. She could never have a mortgage on her own. She works part time but earns a full time salary in effect. If she looses the house, she would be renting unless she meets someone else to live with.


Not your problem


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> Moving back in is no longer an option anyway. The locks have been changed and a security system installed. I told her she has to give me a key but she has refused. She says that I have no business going there whilst she is out. She is prepared to sell the house rather than have me having access to it. Apparently her lawyer said that I cannot go back as it would be harrassment. I don't believe that. She continues to state that I broke in and had no right to do so. She has since thrown crap from the past at me constantly for hours. I only answered politely denying any wrong doing as these messages are my evidence.
> 
> I told her that I am paying the mortgage to keep the children in their home as they have had enough changes in their lives and that she doesn't even appreciate it. She said she doesn't care and would rather be in a small appartment than have me have power over her with the house. I am now contemplating selling up. She said that if I break in again, she will force a sale. Looks like the house has become the leverage between us.
> 
> She also can't understand why my D4 idolises me. She thinks that if she was older she wouldn't want to be near me!! Just really cruel hurtful stuff.
> 
> I need to think weather I'll even stay in the area now. I can collect the kids every other weekend when I get a place but no need to live so close anymore.


It would be a COLD day in heII before I pay a mortgage at a home I don't live and only see my

daughters every other weekend. And you're paying CS.... and soon a place of your own.

I know engineers make good money but not that damn good. Do you know her lawyer's name? My guess

is she doesn't have one. Do you think you would have the courage to grab her purse, locate 

your balls and reinsert them? She is mopping the floor with you and you LET her.

You need a trip to the States and a week with my Hangover Crew worse than a dead man needs a coffin.

Pick the lock, get a locksmith, do what you need to do but MOVE BACK IN! TONIGHT!

I would have a helluva lot more respect for you doing that even IF you were arrested for trespassing... which you won't


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## Andy101

My salary and earning potential is much higher than hers


----------



## thenub

So typical of an engineer. They know everything and any advice is wrong because it wasn't their idea. 
I really feel for you. 
How's your wife enjoying your balls?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy101

My salary is higher than an average engineer as I am an independant contractor and have my own company. I can afford to pay the mortgage and cs but I don't know if I want to for much longer as her attitude is disgusting and if I now can't even have a key, I'm seriously considering selling up. I did it for the kids but she is making it as difficult as possible for me as she actually believes that I have no rights. She does have a lawyer for sure as we are mid way in a divorce. I have all the letters and court papers. I'm not about to get arrested or get the police involved as I'm not putting my job at risk. Just want to get the hell out of dodge to be honest.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> *Moving back in is no longer an option anyway.* The locks have been changed and a security system installed. I told her she has to give me a key but she has refused. She says that I have no business going there whilst she is out. She is prepared to sell the house rather than have me having access to it. *Apparently her lawyer said that I cannot go back as it would be harrassment. *I don't believe that. She continues to state that I broke in and had no right to do so. She has since thrown crap from the past at me constantly for hours. I only answered politely denying any wrong doing as these messages are my evidence.
> 
> I told her that I am paying the mortgage to keep the children in their home as they have had enough changes in their lives and that she doesn't even appreciate it. *She said she doesn't care and would rather be in a small appartment than have me have power over her with the house.* I am now contemplating selling up. She said that if I break in again, she will force a sale. Looks like the house has become the leverage between us.
> 
> I need to think weather I'll even stay in the area now. I can collect the kids every other weekend when I get a place but no need to live so close anymore.


Andy,

Moving back in is not an option TO YOU, becasue YOU ALLOW IT. 

First, consult your lawyer about the house. I can break down my own door if I want. I own it. The locks are immaterial.

If she would rather live in a small apartment, call her bluff. Why would you care if she forces a sale of the house? Yo do not live there and never will. If you sell the house and split the proceeds, you will be able to afford a place to take your kids back to. 

Yes, you live close because of the kids. Do not run away.


----------



## ButtPunch

Andy101 said:


> My salary is higher than an average engineer as I am an independant contractor and have my own company. I can afford to pay the mortgage and cs but I don't know if I want to for much longer as her attitude is disgusting and if I now can't even have a key, I'm seriously considering selling up. I did it for the kids but she is making it as difficult as possible for me as she actually believes that I have no rights. She does have a lawyer for sure as we are mid way in a divorce. I have all the letters and court papers. I'm not about to get arrested or get the police involved as I'm not putting my job at risk. Just want to get the hell out of dodge to be honest.


Andy.....Do you have a Lawyer? Get one immediately. A bulldog.

The kids will be fine wherever they live. They love apartments because other kids are around and pools and playgrounds. Don't think they got some huge emotional connection to the house. 

Ask your attorney how much money you should be giving her and do not give her a penny more. Sell the house. Make her feel the consequences of divorce.

Stop rolling over in order to keep the peace.


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> My salary is higher than an average engineer as I am an independant contractor and have my own company. I can afford to pay the mortgage and cs but I don't know if I want to for much longer as her attitude is disgusting and if I now can't even have a key, I'm seriously considering selling up. I did it for the kids but she is making it as difficult as possible for me as she actually believes that I have no rights. She does have a lawyer for sure as we are mid way in a divorce. I have all the letters and court papers. I'm not about to get arrested or get the police involved as I'm not putting my job at risk. Just want to get the hell out of dodge to be honest.


Then STOP paying the damn mortgage
Then STOP paying the child support

Tell her you will see her happy arse in court

Or do you get arrested in Britain for standing up for yourself too?


----------



## Chuck71

ButtPunch said:


> Andy.....Do you have a Lawyer? Get one immediately. A bulldog.
> 
> The kids will be fine wherever they live. They love apartments because other kids are around and pools and playgrounds. Don't think they got some huge emotional connection to the house.
> 
> Ask your attorney how much money you should be giving her and do not give her a penny more. Sell the house. Make her feel the consequences of divorce.
> 
> *Stop rolling over in order to keep the peace*.


My XW and I were separated "so to say" for a few weeks before we filed for D.

I pretty much rolled over at first trying to keep the peace. How'd that work out for me? Not good at all.

The day I said "no fvcking more" every thing began to change.

Two months after I stopped my "rolling over to keep the peace" dumba$$ idea.... I was giving my XW 

schit sandwiches and she had to eat every damn one of them.

Ya might wanna try that....


----------



## Cynthia

Do you have an attorney? 
Are you paying for her attorney?
Do you know if someone wants to hurt you and you do nothing to stop them, they will continue to do as they please?


----------



## SadandAngry

Andy101 said:


> Moving back in is no longer an option anyway. The locks have been changed and a security system installed. I told her she has to give me a key but she has refused. She says that I have no business going there whilst she is out. She is prepared to sell the house rather than have me having access to it. Apparently her lawyer said that I cannot go back as it would be harrassment. I don't believe that. She continues to state that I broke in and had no right to do so. She has since thrown crap from the past at me constantly for hours. I only answered politely denying any wrong doing as these messages are my evidence.
> 
> I told her that I am paying the mortgage to keep the children in their home as they have had enough changes in their lives and that she doesn't even appreciate it. She said she doesn't care and would rather be in a small appartment than have me have power over her with the house. I am now contemplating selling up. She said that if I break in again, she will force a sale. Looks like the house has become the leverage between us.
> 
> She also can't understand why my D4 idolises me. She thinks that if she was older she wouldn't want to be near me!! Just really cruel hurtful stuff.
> 
> I need to think weather I'll even stay in the area now. I can collect the kids every other weekend when I get a place but no need to live so close anymore.



Are you for real? Do you give the slightest damn about your kids, or are they just pawns in a game to you? Because you seem awfully quick to give up on seeing them in many of your posts.


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## Chuck71

SadandAngry said:


> Are you for real? Do you give the slightest damn about your kids, or are they just pawns in a game to you? Because you seem awfully quick to give up on seeing them in many of your posts.


God help him if pop was on these threads. No one will stand up for Andy but Andy......

Hollywood made it romantic to be the beaten down humble man in a divorce.... DOES NOT work that way


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## Mr The Other

@Andy101 , Brit to Brit, pull your **** together. We have American posters here would would struggle to walk up a few flights of stairs thinking we are soft. 

Put the kids first. Your ex is not being a suitable Mother. Normally, there will be a big overlap in the interests of the Mothers and children, but not in this case. That means you have to go hard core. You have money, use it wisely. You can give it to your ex to use wisely, how will that work out? Get a bull-busting solicitor and know where you stand.


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## Marc878

Think of it this way. As your kids get older and have to witness your wife treating you like this which you allow. What do you think they're thoughts will be?

Kids should be able look up to their parents. Will they look up to you?


----------



## Mr The Other

Marc878 said:


> Think of it this way. As your kids get older and have to witness your wife treating you like this which you allow. What do you think they're thoughts will be?
> 
> Kids should be able look up to their parents. Will they look up to you?


Indeed. 
@Chuck71 mentions humility. But making yourself humble focuses on you. The point here is to forget about yourself and be a good example to the kids, which involves standing up to their Mother and taking control of the situation. 

I struggled in these types of situation. It is not about being tough in the conventional sense (I played rugby league for twenty years, that was easier), but on moving your focus.


----------



## Chuck71

When I first became a writer... my first boss was a Brit.... grew up during WW2. My undergrad was to teach history

in high school. I always preferred US history, island history (any island any where... never knew why, I

blame it on my ADHD / autism LOL), and anything pre-2000BC. I had took a Sub-Saharan history

class a few years before just because it was a good time fit (class I wanted would have made me drive to 

school -100 mile round trip- for just that class on Fridays. The professor captivated me with

the class.... lectured three hours, no notes. He also looked like a Grateful Dead hippie.

Around five years passed... I'm writing for a paper owned by the Brit. We spoke in great detail about

the UK, during the Wars. How Europe was before and after the Two. He compared / contrasted 

Chamberlain and Churchill... which embarked me on an extensive research of the British Empire.

My boss stated -Germany could have crossed the channel eventually.... but he would never have 

captured England. We're nice, polite, well spoken but will fight to the death for our country. The Nazi Party

didn't have that fight we had. Notice where the Romans stopped....-

Somewhere along the lines... UK and.... US men have lost that "fire" where you treat others with respect

AND you demand it from others. My pop died 20 years ago... so yes... in some ways that 'ol Brit boss 

was a father figure to me. You stand up for what you believe is right, you refuse to be walked on,

you refuse to lose time with your girls just because some drama queen entitled princess said so.

Win or lose.... you stand tall and you stand firm. Get your balls back.... why?

Your two girls are CLOSELY observing what will go on. If their daddy folds like a deck of cards,

they will seek out weak men as Hs and do to them what you are let happen to you.

Now if you stand tall... they will respect you and.... seek a strong man for a H. Much better chance for

a happy M. What your W thinks of you..... dude when you stand tall above your enemies.... you will not

give a damn what she thinks.

So here ya go Andy...... your choice here will shape the lives of your girls, their future mates, their kids....

I've said it before.... how one handles these situations will go a long way in determining three generations.


----------



## Andy101

I hear what you guys are saying. My blood is starting to boil..which is a good thing. 

My stbx didn't answer any of the messages I sent her over the weekend, enquiring how the kids were. I knew she read them as whatsapp notifies you. On sunday evening, she finally replied and apologised for not contacting me sooner as she had no reception because her family went to the coast for two nights! She didn't even inform me...because I'm guessing, she didn't want me thinking the house was empty and I might 'break in'!

I saw the kids tonight, I left work early so I could spend some time with them. I went back to the house and my stbx was visibly angry. She just stomps around with an angry look on her face, no interaction with me at all. No good bye nothing. My girls were hanging off me not wanting me to go..which felt great. 

The locks haven't been changed..as yet..she really thinks she's the master of the house. 

Problem now is, as I go into the house, I am confronted by this childish stroppy attitude. I need her to at least reason a little as we have to discuss the kids schooling etc but cannot talk to her. How can I get her to stop being so stubborn and be civil in front of the girls? 

I know about the lawyer stuff but I still need some normality as I'm stuck with her for years to come.


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## farsidejunky

Andy101 said:


> I hear what you guys are saying. My blood is starting to boil..which is a good thing.
> 
> My stbx didn't answer any of the messages I sent her over the weekend, enquiring how the kids were. I knew she read them as whatsapp notifies you. On sunday evening, she finally replied and apologised for not contacting me sooner as she had no reception because her family went to the coast for two nights! She didn't even inform me...because I'm guessing, she didn't want me thinking the house was empty and I might 'break in'!
> 
> I saw the kids tonight, I left work early so I could spend some time with them. I went back to the house and my stbx was visibly angry. She just stomps around with an angry look on her face, no interaction with me at all. No good bye nothing. My girls were hanging off me not wanting me to go..which felt great.
> 
> The locks haven't been changed..as yet..she really thinks she's the master of the house.
> 
> Problem now is, as I go into the house, I am confronted by this childish stroppy attitude. I need her to at least reason a little as we have to discuss the kids schooling etc but cannot talk to her. How can I get her to stop being so stubborn and be civil in front of the girls?
> 
> I know about the lawyer stuff but I still need some normality as I'm stuck with her for years to come.


"All of this is happening because I allow it."

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61

How long are you going to continue holding all the cards Andy, how long are you going be treated as a second class citizen in your own home. If your name is on the lease MOVE BACK HOME....this way you can at least see your children everyday...if she wants out of this marriage so badly she can now leave.


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## Andy101

It's not that simple. I am dealing with a narcissist who could make things difficult regarding my access to the kids. I can't move back in as she will move closer to her mother who lives 50 miles away. She cannot afford the rent in our area. The kids would then have to change schools and I wouldn't be able to see the girls very often as I do now. Yes I would have my house back but at what cost? I have to be cleverer, she is dangerous ans doesn't give a shoot as long as she is winning. I need some alternative advice here. It could turn very ugly and the kids would suffer.


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## farsidejunky

Andy101 said:


> It's not that simple. I am dealing with a narcissist who could make things difficult regarding my access to the kids. I can't move back in as she will move closer to her mother who lives 50 miles away. She cannot afford the rent in our area. The kids would then have to change schools and I wouldn't be able to see the girls very often as I do now. Yes I would have my house back but at what cost? I have to be cleverer, she is dangerous ans doesn't give a shoot as long as she is winning. I need some alternative advice here. It could turn very ugly and the kids would suffer.


And you have had months to secure an attorney while you have sat on your heels. Or was that her fault, too?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Andy101

In the UK, the law is still not in favor of fathers. Our rights to access are primitive. I am getting more than the minimum so she could withdraw my mid week visits and nothing can be done. I work long hours so I cannot even apply to have them stay with me in the week as I leave at 5am so that wouldn't be fair on the girls. I will be applying for mediation through a lawyer but she diesn't have to agree with the suggestions.


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## farsidejunky

According to whom? The attorney you haven't consulted yet? Or the pseudo wannabe's who claim to know all about UK family law but wouldn't know actual litigation if it was at the dinner table with them?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

Andy.... you keep trying to get a happy reaction from an angry person.

How's that working out for you?

How long will you continue to try?

When I was 8, I thought I could jump a creek as a shortcut to the golf course.

Tried twice.... unsuccessful. I stopped after two attempts.

How many attempts will it take you to stop trying?


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## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> In the UK, the law is still not in favor of fathers. Our rights to access are primitive. I am getting more than the minimum so she could withdraw my mid week visits and nothing can be done. I work long hours so I cannot even apply to have them stay with me in the week as I leave at 5am so that wouldn't be fair on the girls. I will be applying for mediation through a lawyer but she diesn't have to agree with the suggestions.


IF the divorce laws and child custody laws are as "primitive" as you say... WITF would ANY guy want to

get M and start a family? I have never heard of UK laws being this inept.

Someone's nose might be growing....


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## Andy101

As I said, I am already getting good amounts of access. Chuck...you should inform yourself before calling me a liar.custody is rarely given to fathers here. We have campaigns and organisations trying to change that. My problem is that the way she manipulates my visitation and alienates me from day to day stuff...demanding appologies and gaslighting me. What can the law do about that? Write a letter?


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## Chuck71

Tell ya what.... best of luck. You have to look at yourself in the mirror every morning.

A pre-defeated person has never won a battle, nor war.


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## Mr The Other

Andy101 said:


> In the UK, the law is still not in favor of fathers. Our rights to access are primitive. I am getting more than the minimum so she could withdraw my mid week visits and nothing can be done. I work long hours so I cannot even apply to have them stay with me in the week as I leave at 5am so that wouldn't be fair on the girls. I will be applying for mediation through a lawyer but she diesn't have to agree with the suggestions.


All the more reason. 

In the time you wrote that, you could have called a divorce solicitor. If your kids end up growing up without a Father and brought up by a narcissistic Mother alone because you did not call, what sort of Dad does that make you!

Call a ****ing solicitor.


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## SadandAngry

Record her, keep records of her ****ing with your access to your kids, using them as bargaining chips. That is not viewed positively, even by your dim courts, I'm sure.


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## dubsey

farsidejunky said:


> "All of this is happening because I allow it."


QFT

You're so worried about alienating, but the model you're presenting to your kids is that your wife's behaviour is proper.

You're not the first person to deal with this, but you toss aside everyone's advice like your situation is special.

It is not. It's entirely typical, if you read other stories on this very forum.


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## Andy101

Ok. I have made an appointment with a lawyer for next week. It's gone far enough. I may as well not own a property. The locks have been changed today and she is suggesting that I will not be welcome to visit the girls in the house after I find a place to live. She restricts times and isn't being exactly 'friendly' as my thread title suggested. If we had been friends, then would have there been any compromise? Don't think so. She has asked me for an apology for breaking into my house and says I have no integrity. It's ok for her, she has the children all the time and I get a few hours here and there? Not exactly 50/50. I hope the lawyer can help me. Something needs to change.


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## Marc878

It's about time you took control of your life and stop enabling her by accepting her behavior.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Ok. I have made an appointment with a lawyer for next week. It's gone far enough.


 @Andy101 How was the meeting with the lawyer?


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## Andy101

The lawyer basically asked me what I wantes to achieve as the petition and finances have already been signed and agreed. He said that in all fairness, I could get access to the house but a judge would only grant me entry to collect personal belongings as my stbx has a right to live without the threat of me turning up in the middle of the night. He said that if I can keep a civil relationship, it will save me $$$ and he recomended mediation to agree on visitation so that I can see the kids as nobody knows how a future partner could influence her. Anyhow, he recorded all the bs that she has done and will hold it on file if the situation becomes ugly. For now it's in our best interest to put the kids first and possibly consider selling the house. 

She has been more civil lately. It was our wedding anniversary this week and she started saying that if she could turn back the clock, she would have enrolled us in marriage therapy and that our future is in the hands of a higher being...what is meant to be will be...what does that mean? She also said that she knows I never meant to hurt her. It drives me crazy because she is the one who could turn all this around instead f making statements like that...any ideas what she meant or where she is going with all this?


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## 225985

If you sell the house can she legally move the kids far away? You said she cannot afford to live in the same area at her pay.

Sell the house before she has another guy sleeping in the house you paid for. 

Just more standard crap from her. Does she want you to feel sorry for her? :wtf:


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## Evinrude58

So you did the divorce and asset separation already? Did she get the house? Do you have a custody agreement?

None of this makes a lot of sense.

The comments she makes to you are to keep you hopeful and under her spell, so she can poop on you constantly and get you to lap it up.
As you said, it means nothing or she'd work on the marriage instead of divorcing. 

She LIKES f'ing with your head. She is not alone. Lots of these type of women do.
She'd be totally disappointed if you went dark on her. She's lose her entertainment. 

If you had a hot gf, it would drive her crazy. I'd get one and flaunt her. It might help you be a little more confident, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

Seriously? How can you NOT see what she is doing? It's called bait and switch a game both genders like to play. You pay the mortgage, you take care of the bills for the kids and she treats you nice enough to live free. You sit there and have no access to your kids, but claim it is getting better. It's sad because all of this catering has got you less access to the kids, no access to YOUR HOUSE and more emotional turmoil than when you were living together.


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## Evinrude58

Yeah, when OP cuts the money off she will flip out and go rotating-head exorcist style on him.
No doubt you are correct.
Dangle the fruit in front of him that he'll never get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

Breadcrumbs. You keep lapping them up. The only thing you can change here is you.

I don't get it. You should have wised up by now.

The biggest problem you have is yourself.

Get strong and make your life into something.


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## Andy101

I agree with the recent posts. 
My stbx knows how I feel about her so she has control over me. She is however trying to build a strong relationship with my mom and is being pleasant to me and confides in me now with her work issues as she hasn't really got anyone else to talk to. She messages me throughout the day and is happy for me to see the kids often....

But..she still likes her space and control over the house and when I should leave and say good bye. It may be that she has plans for us or that she is just keeping her options open..

I on the other hand, have my own agenda now. I am planning on renting a small house as soon as one comes available. Buying a nice car, hitting the gym and buying a new wardrobe. I will then wait to see her next move. If she fails to make a positive move for our marriage, I will see out the divorce and then try and find someone else. The kids will have somewhere to stay, I will continue to improve my career and carry on the best I can. 

Does that sound like a good plan if action?

I know that along the way I will continue to feel the loneliness and frustration that my dream has died but it's out of my hands. I would love to save my marriage but am powerless.

I try and look at her in a negative way and tell myself that she is not so attractive and look at all her flaws hoping to manage to detach somehow. That is my main objective...to get her out of my head...just need some good ways to do that.


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## Blondilocks

"I will then wait to see her next move."

Wrong move. You are in reactive mode. Take action. Just as you take your cues from her, she will take cues from you. You can spend the rest of your life waiting on her next move and then her next move ad nauseam.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I on the other hand, have my own agenda now. I am planning on renting a small house as soon as one comes available. Buying a nice car, hitting the gym and buying a new wardrobe. *I will then wait to see her next move.* If she fails to make a positive move for our marriage, I will see out the divorce and then try and find someone else. The kids will have somewhere to stay, I will continue to improve my career and carry on the best I can.
> 
> Does that sound like a good plan if action?


No. As long as you "wait to see her next move" then the plan svcks. @Blondilocks is right. You need a good plan listing the DOs and the Don't DOs. You have some great posters here to help with that. Let's put together that list and show it here. Do you want to start or do want us? A great poster did the same for me @marduk.

As for the her building a relationship with your mom, what the heck is all that about? TO CONTROL YOU. So she can bad-mouth you to your mom. You need to get custody of the kids whatever it takes and your mom can see the kids when you have them.

Lately male engineers have been showing a weak performance on TAM. We give our profession a bad name. We are better than that. Much better. If anyone can plan and execute on a plan, it is us. 

Get planning. No more waiting. And date. I hear UK has awesome women. I've even seen them first hand (from a distance of course). Just make sure you disclose your status. Separated on way to divorce, not separated and hoping EX takes you back.


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## Andy101

Well the latest outburst came today when I was going to take the kids out for dinner and asked if she wanted to come along. She said "I know what you are doing..you are trying to get me back..." she continued that I am so much more improved as a person and a father, better than I ever was before. She said she loves me..but had fallen out of love but feels our friendship is stronger now...just gets to me. It doesn't change my situation. I am still living in a room and driving a borrowed car with the evenings after I drop the kids off being the lonliest I have ever felt. I cannot date when I cannot even live and my stbx feeling sorry for me and wanting chats to talk about our feelings makes me want to puke.

I need some help in direction. She will always affect me as the kids are young but I need to somehow build a shield that will deflect her bs...


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Well the latest outburst came today when I was going to take the kids out for dinner and* asked if she wanted to come along.*.


Why did you do that? Well, we all know why. Ok, you messed up this time. Only thing to do is try again. 

Next time you have the kids out for dinner, *what are you going to do differently?*

My Friend, I know it hurts, it hurts bad, but the THINKING Andy knows that you are doing the exact OPPOSITE of what you need. Either to move on or win her back, inviting her to dinner is NOT the way to do it. Plus you don't have the money to pay for her dinner. You drive a borrowed car.... 

You said that you and ex took the accelerated path to separation to avoid the two year process. Remind us again what needs to happen for the divorce to finalize and when is that going to happen? Because you won't date until after you are divorce and you cannot move on until you date (IMO) and find someone else. And you wife is doing EVERYTHING possible to prevent that from happening. She knows you as well as you know yourself and is purposely pushing your buttons to control you. 

Next time you think about inviting her for dinner, think of the ***** that changed the door locks in YOUR house that YOU pay for. That is your shield.


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## Marc878

You know what to do. It's been said before here. Detach. 180. She wanted you gone so go.

Email or text her only about the kids. At some point you need to take control of your life. No one is gonna do it for you. 

At this point your biggest problem is you. 



Read it, apply it and change your life. 
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=15BNs.FEeslF2na8sOIZZ1knefE-


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## farsidejunky

There is nothing anybody can post that has not already been said in this thread, likely many times. You are where you are because you want to be. I hope one day you wake up.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## 225985

farsidejunky said:


> There is nothing anybody can post that has not already been said in this thread, likely many times. You are where you are because you want to be. I hope one day you wake up.


Andy KNOWS what to do. He is just having much difficulty doing it. I can relate to that. 
@Andy101 I am addicted to a person I put on a pedestal. She is not a good person on paper, but to me she is awesome and I could not stay away. It is destructive to me and my marriage. TAMers have been helping me. I am doing fairly well at No Contact, but had some reality BAD relapses. You had one with that dinner event.
@marduk put together the below plan for me to follow. I made some minor changes to fit your situation with the kids. I am doing pretty good on this, not yet 100% on all items but getting better each day. Give it a try

*******From Marduk

It's hard because you lack discipline and brutal self honesty.

Do this for one week. Don't post, don't whine, don't do anything but the following.

Do:
1. Work out every day. High intensity, heavy weights. Try strong lifts. 
2. Eat only quality food high in protein and good fats. Avoid carbs.
3. Sleep 7-8 hours per night.
4. Tell your kids that you love them every day or as often as you can contact them. Do this without any unnecessary conversation with ex-wife.
5. Meditate 15-30 minutes per day. Focus: strength of resolve.
6. Distract yourself with reading books (sci-fi, fantasy, other) or some other activity that you enjoy. BBC has awesome sci-fi series.

*Do not:*
1. Drink any alcohol if that will make you depressed and think about your ex-wife. 
2. Talk to your ex-wife unless specially and only related to the kids. Think about your ex-wif. Daydream about your ex-wife. 
3. Do porn 
4. Feed any self-negative talk. Zero. Just catch yourself and think about something else. Something positive.
5. Read any relationship self-help books. You need a break from that. You need to focus on YOU. 

I'm recommending this because you need discipline. The exercise stuff is to clear your mind and discipline the body. A disciplined body can help lead to a disciplined mind.

Anybody can do this for one week. 

Can you? Do you actually want to become stronger or do you just want someone to magically give you an easy button to make it all go away?

**********

BTW, the titles to our threads will never work. You can never be "friends" with your ex-wife. I can never be "friends" with the object of my affection. Not going to happen.


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## 225985

@Andy101

Hi Andy, I hope you are getting to the gym or doing some exercises at home. Running is good. 

One day a time.


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## ReturntoZero

farsidejunky said:


> There is nothing anybody can post that has not already been said in this thread, likely many times. You are where you are because you want to be. I hope one day you wake up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Reminds me of UpDaddy


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## 225985

ReturntoZero said:


> Reminds me of UpDaddy


I don't know UpDaddy's story.

Andy knows what to do. IMO he is just emotionally unable to do it. He needs to get to a point where he can implement the advice given here.

Let's hope he comes back. I won't give up on him.


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## 225985

@Andy101

How is it going Andy?


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## Andy101

Hi all. Been a while...

I have been very busy lately furnishing my rented house and working long hours. I am ok here. I feel safe and I am no longer desperately longing for my stbx to come back. I see the kids when I can and go out with my friends although I am lonely at times. 

I do not speak to my ex about our marriage at all now. We occasionally go out as a family but its just for the kids. We don't argue and mainly communicate via messages..and only about the girls. 
I actually don't know what to do about the marriage anymore. She looks at me fondly but life is what it is and we have this routine where I collect the kids or stay briefly for a coffee and a chat. I sometimes give her a hug or caress her arm, she doesn't mind but that's where it ends. It seems like this is it now...a stalemate where nothing is progressing nor getting worse. She has got me as a support if she needs to talk to me and I can ask her to collect parcels for me or small chores while I am at work. 
I don't know how long the divorce will take. We seem to be on a waiting list for the courts to issue a decree nisi..this could still take some time. I am therefore in limbo as far as the marriage goes. Wish yhere was something I could actively do to shake things up......


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## farsidejunky

You don't miss her, yet you caress her arm?

Lying to yourself will lead you to another year of limbo.


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## Andy101

I didn't say I didn't miss her...I don't know what the future holds..period!


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## farsidejunky

Andy101 said:


> I didn't say I didn't miss her...I don't know what the future holds..period!


As long as the future does not include her, it will be better.

When you realize it, your entire outlook will change.


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## 225985

You are doing good Andy. Much better than before. 

All I can say is that the court system in UK sucks. I am glad we revolted.


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## Andy101

I really don't want her included the way she is. But we have young children and I have to see her and talk to her about them. What with her sister and mom being on their own now, I feel thay have become a tight unit where I am this token male that occasionally turns up to pick up the kids. They go on holiday together and spend alot of time with each other, which is great..but I am not a monster like their ex's are. They know I am good natured but have pushed me to the fringes of their lives when I should have been the rock of the family.
I feel irrelevant and pushed out. Can't believe people can be so selfish. I just live my life, work like crazy and sit and wait for the divorce to finalize. Would my stbx even care?


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## GusPolinski

No more hugging, caressing, chit-chatting, or providing emotional support.

DETACH.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

^^^^^

Focus on the above.


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## Andy101

Thought I'd update my sitch..
Stbx told me that her lawyer is going to contact me as the decree nisi is coming up. Basically my stbx has to wait 6 weeks before a decree absolute can be declared which officially ends the marriage. 

She has been saying that she feels sad about it all but that it is necessary as our vows didn't seem relevant anymore. She says we need a clean slate and that 'we' wouldn't have grown as better people without this process. She says that she knows I am trying really hard and we will have to see where our relationship goes in the future.... 

She asks me if I'm ok about things and I always say I'm ok. I just live my life and take care if myself and my business..and business is good. I have improved my career, I'm more independant than I have ever been and am content day to day but do miss female company. 

Is she just feeding me breadcrumbs or has she got some kind of plan here? Her life has not grown. Nothing has changed for her and everything has changed for me. Just not sure where she is going with all this...


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## ButtPunch

Andy101 said:


> Thought I'd update my sitch..
> Stbx told me that her lawyer is going to contact me as the decree nisi is coming up. Basically my stbx has to wait 6 weeks before a decree absolute can be declared which officially ends the marriage.
> 
> She has been saying that she feels sad about it all but that it is necessary as our vows didn't seem relevant anymore. She says we need a clean slate and that 'we' wouldn't have grown as better people without this process. She says that she knows I am trying really hard and we will have to see where our relationship goes in the future....
> 
> She asks me if I'm ok about things and I always say I'm ok. I just live my life and take care if myself and my business..and business is good. I have improved my career, I'm more independant than I have ever been and am content day to day but do miss female company.
> 
> Is she just feeding me breadcrumbs or has she got some kind of plan here? Her life has not grown. Nothing has changed for her and everything has changed for me. Just not sure where she is going with all this...


Andy

You need to let go and move on.


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## Lostinthought61

Andy101 said:


> Thought I'd update my sitch..
> Stbx told me that her lawyer is going to contact me as the decree nisi is coming up. Basically my stbx has to wait 6 weeks before a decree absolute can be declared which officially ends the marriage.
> 
> She has been saying that she feels sad about it all but that it is necessary as our vows didn't seem relevant anymore. She says we need a clean slate and that 'we' wouldn't have grown as better people without this process. She says that she knows I am trying really hard and we will have to see where our relationship goes in the future....
> 
> She asks me if I'm ok about things and I always say I'm ok. I just live my life and take care if myself and my business..and business is good. I have improved my career, I'm more independant than I have ever been and am content day to day but do miss female company.
> 
> Is she just feeding me breadcrumbs or has she got some kind of plan here? Her life has not grown. Nothing has changed for her and everything has changed for me. Just not sure where she is going with all this...


she is feeding you breadcrumbs and you will not know what hits you until it is too late


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## 225985

So in 6 weeks plus one day you will go on a date, right?


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## bandit.45

She threw away her marriage and wants to justify it in her mind. If she can convince you that you are okay with what she did, then she can feel vindicated. 

Every time she asks that question ignore it and change the subject or hang up on her.


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## 225985

So what will be the custody and visitation arrangements? Anything enforced by the court or does she get to decide on a whim if and when you see the girls?


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## Andy101

There is no custody arrangement. I see the girls often but I don't have a day to day say in what is going on in their lives although my stbx keeps me updated on their schooling etc. 
I don't know about dating. I feel nervous about the dating scene...it's been a while..
I concentrate on my job and my home and see my friends. The girls take up alot of my free time too so dating is not a big deal right now although I know that I this can't go on forever. I am also worried that I'll anger my stbx and upset the children if they think I don't love their mother. It's a big step that would change my way of life.


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## Andy101

Your thoughts please...I don't contact my stbx for 2 days and she thinks something is wrong and seems upset...she started acting suspicious when I went to pick up the girls...why would she care?


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## Satya

Andy101 said:


> I am planning on renting a small house as soon as one comes available. Buying a nice car, hitting the gym and buying a new wardrobe. I will then wait to see her next move. If she fails to make a positive move for our marriage, I will see out the divorce and then try and find someone else. The kids will have somewhere to stay, I will continue to improve my career and carry on the best I can.
> 
> Does that sound like a good plan if action?


Only the part where your kids have somewhere to stay.

The rest is just flaunting your obvious need to get her validation. You haven't learned yet that you don't need it.

Hit the gym and buy a new car and wardrobe because these things are good for you, not because you're hoping for a reaction.

If she really wanted to be with you, you wouldn't be where you are now and you wouldn't be tolerating these "is she just toying with me?" games.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Your thoughts please...I don't contact my stbx for 2 days and she thinks something is wrong and seems upset...she started acting suspicious when I went to pick up the girls...why would she care?


She's likes child who doesn't want a toy until someone else does. She knows you are like a puppet on her string.

More importantly why do you care? You know what to do. Detach and move on.


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## Satya

Andy101 said:


> Your thoughts please...I don't contact my stbx for 2 days and she thinks something is wrong and seems upset...she started acting suspicious when I went to pick up the girls...why would she care?


Why do *you* care?


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## Andy101

I 'care' because it gets on my nerves. She wonders why I don't get in touch..but she doesn't either if that is bothering her. I see this behavior as a sign of things to come. I think she thought I may have been on a date. I wasn't. Just out with friends. If I really was seeing someone, I think she could step up her tantrum and it could become either difficult for my access to the kids or she could use the kids to make me feel guilty. I have money, nice car, nice place and a good job. Just no family or what used to be a wife. I have moved on in many ways, just can't break her spell...


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> If I really was seeing someone, I think she could step up her tantrum and it could become either difficult for my access to the kids.


This is why I asked about custody.

So you are going to let her control your access to your kids, and will tip toe around her so as to not piss her off, right?


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I 'care' because it gets on my nerves. She wonders why I don't get in touch..but she doesn't either if that is bothering her. I see this behavior as a sign of things to come. I think she thought I may have been on a date. I wasn't. Just out with friends. If I really was seeing someone, I think she could step up her tantrum and it could become either difficult for my access to the kids or she could use the kids to make me feel guilty. I have money, nice car, nice place and a good job. Just no family or what used to be a wife. I have moved on in many ways, just can't break her spell...




Because despite your money, nice car, nice place and good job, you still have a poor self image. You seek validation from your ex wife. 

And the thing is - she needs your attention and she needs to try to control you. 

You both are trapped, for now, until you realize this. 

The only power she has over you is that which you willingly give her. (Credit goes to @farsidejunky for that)

I suffer too over a woman who has a spell over me. Btdt.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> I 'care' because it gets on my nerves. She wonders why I don't get in touch..but she doesn't either if that is bothering her. I see this behavior as a sign of things to come. I think she thought I may have been on a date. I wasn't. Just out with friends. If I really was seeing someone, I think she could step up her tantrum and it could become either difficult for my access to the kids or she could use the kids to make me feel guilty. I have money, nice car, nice place and a good job. Just no family or what used to be a wife. *I have moved on in many ways, just can't break her spell.*..


You could. That is on you.


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## Satya

Andy101 said:


> I 'care' because *it gets on my nerves.*


Your issue, and one that is easy for you to work on. This is you letting her actions "get" to you. Then it's her fault when it isn't. Stop it. Re-frame your thinking.



Andy101 said:


> She wonders why I don't get in touch..but she doesn't either if that is bothering her.


This is push/pull mixed in with lack of responsibility and stonewalling on her part. She wants you to do everything. She wants to complain so you chase her, then she can have the satisfaction of booting you out the door again. It's an ego trip. The stonewalling (ignoring you, going silent) is another passive-aggressive tactic to give her all the power of contact. Ignore all of these childish behaviors.



Andy101 said:


> I see this behavior as a sign of things to come.


That time is here, IMO.



Andy101 said:


> I think she thought I may have been on a date. I wasn't. Just out with friends. If I really was seeing someone, I think she could step up her tantrum and it could become either difficult for my access to the kids or she could use the kids to make me feel guilty.


First of all, you think, you think, you think.... your hamster is going to die.
This is why I emphasize, who cares what she thinks? It's just giving more laps for the hamster to run. *She thinks what she thinks.*

Now when it comes to controlling your relationship with the kids, is a very real concern and I can understand how your fear of what she might do. If she were to do anything to slow or bar your contact from the children, it would speak volumes toward her character, her maturity, and what she thinks of you. *A good, sensible parent in an otherwise amicable separation will be smart enough not encourage parental alienation. It hurts the child/children the most in the end.* Parental Alienation.

But you cannot stop anything she does, you can only protect yourself for when that time comes. Prepare that it will, don't sit around hoping it won't.

Here are my thoughts in this regard based on your current situation (working toward separation/divorce), for what it's worth:

- You can't stop her from speculating.
- You can't stop her from acting out with the intent of hurting you, whether emotionally through your children or even physically.
- You can't control what she thinks you might be doing, when you are NC with her.
- You don't owe her answers about what you do in your free time, unless it's something you're doing with the children. Then, as the other parent, she should at least know where you are and how to contact you.
- She doesn't owe you any answers about what she does, who she does it with, and for how long, either.
- You can't successfully talk or negotiate your way to "nice" her back. That's like begging someone to give you an apology after they've wronged you - it's not sincere and it's definitely not volunteered earnestly.

- You can call the police if you get a whiff of her doing something outrageous. You can keep a VAR on you at all times (just never disclose it).
- You can maintain NC in everything but child matters. Just ask anyone on this board who has been there.
- You can carry on with your plans (place to live, activities you'll do with your kids, work, hobbies, self-improvement goals, etc). Again, ask any man who has been in your shoes.
- You can maintain your cool, keep your emotions in check, and learn to be indifferent. Not a **** - *indifferent.* Nothing (to me, anyway) says "you have no power over me" more than a stoic man.
- You can get a lawyer, go to IC to work through your troubled thoughts, temporarily go on medication to take the edge off (this last suggestion I make with great care, as personally I avoid all meds if possible, but I also keep an open mind that sometimes the stress of things is just overwhelming - seek a professional medical opinion on this if you're thinking of it).



Andy101 said:


> I have money, nice car, nice place and a good job. Just no family or what used to be a wife.


You have your children. You still have a family in my book. You may have lost a wife but you have a lot of other good things going for you, and I'm not talking about the material things. They'll pass you by if you don't start protecting them.



Andy101 said:


> I have moved on in many ways, just can't break her spell...


Andy, you have a ways to go. Rome wasn't built in a night. Sometimes posters here really need to work through things to the very end and give it their best shot. I think at this point, the resources you've been focusing on your wife have been wasted. Re-focus them on your kids and your future instead. They'll need stability to be able to maintain a life with you. Do the best you can in this regard.

There's a lot of action to be taken, and it'll be tiring, which is why you also have to maintain your health, mentally (meditate, detach, NC, enjoy your children) and physically (eat well, exercise, avoid alcohol).


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## VFW

She is no longer your friend, buddy or pal, she is the mother of your children and needs to be treated with a certain amount of respect for their sake, not hers. If she does not ask you a question, there is no need to answer. She doesn't want you in her life, but she wants to control yours, don't let her. The biggest issue I see is you don't have a visitation agreement. See if you can get her to agree to a regular schedule and stick to it for now. This will also help the children as they will know when to expect you. You have been shaken to the core, you need to reestablish your life and be too busy with your life that she is only a minor distraction.


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## SadandAngry

Man, you need to get your custody arrangement included in the divorce agreement, now. Not later, but right now. 50/50. Get that locked in, then go NC with her, except for absolutely necessary communication about the kids, but nothing else. This is for your sanity, you need to stop connecting, or trying to connect with her. You need to move on, grieve the loss, sure, but do it, get through it, and you can continue to develop yourself into a happier, better person.


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## Andy101

Hi. I wanted to update my situation as it's been a while now...I am finally divorced. The decree absolute was posted to me last week...my ex didn't even know and was shocked by the news. She now speaks of a fresh start as she feels that the marriage was doomed from the start as she felt that getting hitched in Vegas was a joke and felt we should have gone to a church instead. She feels we are kinder to each other now than we ever have been and feels that we have achieved so much this year being apart and as we are friends..who knows what the future holds for us.....
We have spent Christmas apart..she has bearely contacted me to let me speak to the kids but has arranged for us to be together for new year...I am ok on my own but am becoming sick of the bread crumbs and feel that I deserve to be happy again. I'm nit sure what she wants anymore and feel that the situation could just go on for eternity as she is content with how things are. I am seriously considering moving on soon but still feel I should give her the benefit of the doubt. She did let loose on some issues that we had...my brother and he's wife excluded her after she cheated on me and she just wants forgiveness. She feels that it was a major factor for the divorce. My brother just wants me to be free and happy and start again at some point. The kids are ok. I see them alot and they love spending time with me which is great but I don't just want to be a dad...surely I should be able to let go of my guilt and try and meet someone new? Should I wait fir my ex now that we have a clean sheet?


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## WoundedTiger

Sorry about your situation. I only read some of it, but since I may be heading the same way, I know what I would do.

*There is no such thing as "friend". I'm not going to become another abused man who clings to the kids every other weekend. He11 no!! Likewise, I am not going to be helping out with ANYTHING because I know these games very well. 

*So she admitted to cheating? Well, people are different and you seem like a nicer person than me, but if I have confirmed cheating I will never talk to her again. Cannot trust her. 

*Get a new chick and then flaunt it right in her face if it will hurt her. She started this..

I'm sorry, but it definitely looks like she treating you like that "friend" with hope. I've been friend zoned twice in my life and it took me months to get out of it. There is nothing good that can come out of that.


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## arbitrator

Andy101 said:


> Hi. I wanted to update my situation as it's been a while now...I am finally divorced. The decree absolute was posted to me last week...my ex didn't even know and was shocked by the news. She now speaks of a fresh start as she feels that the marriage was doomed from the start as she felt that getting hitched in Vegas was a joke and felt we should have gone to a church instead. She feels we are kinder to each other now than we ever have been and feels that we have achieved so much this year being apart and as we are friends..who knows what the future holds for us.....
> We have spent Christmas apart..she has bearely contacted me to let me speak to the kids but has arranged for us to be together for new year...I am ok on my own but am becoming sick of the bread crumbs and feel that I deserve to be happy again. I'm nit sure what she wants anymore and feel that the situation could just go on for eternity as she is content with how things are. I am seriously considering moving on soon but still feel I should give her the benefit of the doubt. She did let loose on some issues that we had...my brother and he's wife excluded her after she cheated on me and she just wants forgiveness. She feels that it was a major factor for the divorce. My brother just wants me to be free and happy and start again at some point. The kids are ok. I see them alot and they love spending time with me which is great but I don't just want to be a dad...surely I should be able to let go of my guilt and try and meet someone new? Should I wait for my ex now that we have a clean sheet?


*What? Now I may be somewhat late to the party here, but as I understand it, she actually cheated on you at some point in your marriage, you say? The only reason that she wants you now is because she's probably having difficulty in finding someone who thinks she's attractive enough to drop their drawers for!

Revel in that fact and just be happy that she "cashed your check" before you ever had to cash hers!

And like a Mayflower moving van, you should just move on down the line!

But if you're sincerely intent on honoring her wishes in attempting to reestablish the severed relationship, then I'd offer up that she'd better agree to undergo some extremely traumatic marriage counseling, all on her nickel and with absolutely no guarantees of success attached!!*


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## Marc878

At some point you really need to wake up. You have no future with this. She's shown and told you who she is but for some reason you refuse to believe it. 

When are you going to quit swallowing her BS and have a meaningful life?


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## 225985

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the update. I was thinking about you last week but assumed you left TAM 3 months ago. 

From your words you seem to be doing much much better. 

Great job. 

You already know what 100 percent of us are going to recommend about how to deal with EX. Remember she wants control. IMO she really is not seeking forgiveness. Nothing you ever wrote about her indicated that. 

Sadly, she reminds me of my ex-SIL. She screwed over my brother but then acted (still acts) like she is everyone's friend.


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## Andy101

Thanks blueinbr. I am in a much better place. Probably in the best place to make a positive move and get away from my ex's spell! Posters on here are right...Her grip round my throat has been so tight that I have been powerless to get away from her games. She wants to control me and our situation. I told her that when my job contract ends at the end of next year, I will sell the house...her face contorted in disbelief..she must know she is on borrowed time but will play me until the end as she struggles to make decisions and would need to be shocked into acting on something. The only bonus in all this is that I see my girls all the time. My ex sometimes talks to me when I collect them..sometimes not. I'm used to it now..


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## ABHale

Why have you stayed so long?

She cheats on you with several guys and you still stayed and had another kid.

Why are your waiting around still?

Be there for your kids but find someone new.


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## GusPolinski

Andy101 said:


> Should I wait fir my ex now that we have a clean sheet?


You're kidding, right?


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## 3Xnocharm

For god's sake STOP TALKING TO HER!! And HELL NO you should not wait for her, don't ever ever ever get back with her! You are FREE! RUN!!!!


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## JohnA

Listen to your brother. I just started reading your threads and I regret not reading them sooner. Uptown might have given you insight into your wife. Read his many posts @Uptown. You do realize your brother and his wife are the only two people who are objective. She appears to have BPD tendencies. 

You do realize the only time she treated you well was when you lost weight and showed signs of moving on? What does that tell you? You want her? Be an ass. That's right be an ass. Drop the weight, pick up the guitar, get a Harley and skip of to Amsterdam from time to time and get stoned. She will always either be at your throat or at your feet. Not what I want in a woman, actually not in a friend either. Understand that's all she can give you, all she can do for anyone over the long haul.


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## Andy101

Well I get what is being said on here but my issue is with this feeling of obligation to her. She had such a hold on me for so long it has become difficult to just let go even if I know deep down that she is no good for me. I worry that the children will think less of me if I 'abandon' their mom.

One thing that has really been getting to me this week, she says that we are friends but only contacts me to briefly ask how I am and to ask for money or to take the kids of her hands. Sure, the extra cash is for the girls schooling and activities, but she shows no interest in me as a person whatsoever. I always have to keep conversations going as she has hardly anything to say to me..if the kids were not present it would be very awkward! Why would she keep me hanging but not at least pretend to care? Really gets to me.


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## farsidejunky

Andy101 said:


> Well I get what is being said on here but my issue is with this feeling of obligation to her. She had such a hold on me for so long it has become difficult to just let go even if I know deep down that she is no good for me. I worry that the children will think less of me if I 'abandon' their mom.
> 
> One thing that has really been getting to me this week, she says that we are friends but only contacts me to briefly ask how I am and to ask for money or to take the kids of her hands. Sure, the extra cash is for the girls schooling and activities, but she shows no interest in me as a person whatsoever. I always have to keep conversations going as she has hardly anything to say to me..if the kids were not present it would be very awkward! Why would she keep me hanging but not at least pretend to care? Really gets to me.


Stop watching what she says.

Start watching what she does.


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## 3Xnocharm

Andy101 said:


> Well I get what is being said on here but my issue is with this feeling of obligation to her. She had such a hold on me for so long it has become difficult to just let go even if I know deep down that she is no good for me. I worry that the children will think less of me if I 'abandon' their mom.
> 
> One thing that has really been getting to me this week, she says that we are friends but only contacts me to briefly ask how I am and to ask for money or to take the kids of her hands. Sure, the extra cash is for the girls schooling and activities, but she shows no interest in me as a person whatsoever. I always have to keep conversations going as she has hardly anything to say to me..if the kids were not present it would be very awkward! Why would she keep me hanging but not at least pretend to care? Really gets to me.


Why? So she can continue using you. Stop making conversation with her, go dark on everything that isnt your children. She isnt your friend, stop fooling yourself, and start detaching.


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## ABHale

Andy101 said:


> Well I get what is being said on here but my issue is with this feeling of obligation to her. She had such a hold on me for so long it has become difficult to just let go even if I know deep down that she is no good for me. I worry that the children will think less of me if I 'abandon' their mom.
> 
> One thing that has really been getting to me this week, she says that we are friends but only contacts me to briefly ask how I am and to ask for money or to take the kids of her hands. Sure, the extra cash is for the girls schooling and activities, but she shows no interest in me as a person whatsoever. I always have to keep conversations going as she has hardly anything to say to me..if the kids were not present it would be very awkward! Why would she keep me hanging but not at least pretend to care? Really gets to me.


Our point exactly. Why are you doing this. Be honest why your kids when they get older. Let them know because your wife is a cheat.

Move on already.


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## 225985

How many friends do you have that only contact you when they want money or need a favor? I hope none. 

BTW. She abandoned you. You are not abandoning her. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Relationship Teacher

Andy101 said:


> One thing that has really been getting to me this week, she says that we are friends but only contacts me to briefly ask how I am and to ask for money or to take the kids of her hands. Sure, the extra cash is for the girls schooling and activities, but she shows no interest in me as a person whatsoever. I always have to keep conversations going as she has hardly anything to say to me..if the kids were not present it would be very awkward! Why would she keep me hanging but not at least pretend to care? Really gets to me.


If your best friend or sibling were in your shoes, what would you advise them to do?


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## GusPolinski

Andy101 said:


> Well I get what is being said on here but my issue is with this feeling of obligation to her. She had such a hold on me for so long it has become difficult to just let go even if I know deep down that she is no good for me. I worry that the children will think less of me if I 'abandon' their mom.
> 
> One thing that has really been getting to me this week, she says that we are friends but only contacts me to briefly ask how I am and to ask for money or to take the kids of her hands. Sure, the extra cash is for the girls schooling and activities, but she shows no interest in me as a person whatsoever. I always have to keep conversations going as she has hardly anything to say to me..if the kids were not present it would be very awkward! Why would she keep me hanging but not at least pretend to care? Really gets to me.


Because she doesn't have to.

The crumbs that she's throwing you are sufficient to keep you exactly where she wants you, so _would_ she give more than that?


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## 225985

Careful Andy. You are starting to backslide. It happens. But you caught it. You are stronger than you think. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marc878

You are your own worst problem. If you can't fix that and take control of your own life this is all you get.

You've been around here long enough to know what you have to do. 

Stop talking/thinking and start doing.

Listening to the same broken record play the same sad song over and over.


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## Andy101

Yeah I know....I am trying to put things into perspective. I have been NC for a week now. I haven't seen the kids but I needed this time to really take stock. She hasn't contacted me anymore...she is very likely flirting on whatsapp instead to get attention...I know her...it's just been easier to bury my head in the sand and think that things will work out in the end...she can't change who she is..I suppose I am finally coming out of the denial stage and seeing it all for what it is. That however is more painful than the actual break up. I'm in a lonely place. Feel like a bit of a looser being on my own most if the time but it does make me think. 
My job now is to totally detach myself from her and feel nothing.. which is not easy. I guess the money thing woke me up and made me realise that I mean nothing to her apart from the occasional ego boost. 

What now? What's the next step? Been so long since I have been truly single..


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## bandit.45

Andy101 said:


> What now? What's the next step? Been so long since I have been truly single..


You breathe, and you take one step, then the next step, and another... Keep walking and keep breathing. 

You let go and move on. There is no sense in tying your self worth to someone who has no feeling or respect for you. 

You are going to be okay Andy. We have had many torch bearers like you come through TAM...guys who have difficulty letting go. Some people see it as a weakness. Personally, I see it as a strength. You have loyalty, and loyalty is a rare commodity in a culture that has traded values and integrity for selfishness and one-upsmanship. Don't be ashamed of that. But codependency is as another animal altogether, and I think that is your biggest problem. 

Get thee into counseling if you can and deal with your codependency...your need for other people to define and validate you. That is where the core of all your issues lie I believe, and once you get a handle on that then detachment from you ex will get easier.

Don't even think about dating or getting into another relationship. You are not ready for one. You need to become a whole, self-actualized man with a purpose and a self-steered destiny before you can be any use to any woman, or before you will be able to choose a healthy, decent woman to be with.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Yeah I know....I am trying to put things into perspective. I have been NC for a week now. I haven't seen the kids but I needed this time to really take stock. She hasn't contacted me anymore...she is very likely flirting on whatsapp instead to get attention...I know her...it's just been easier to bury my head in the sand and think that things will work out in the end...she can't change who she is..I suppose I am finally coming out of the denial stage and seeing it all for what it is. That however is more painful than the actual break up. I'm in a lonely place. Feel like a bit of a looser being on my own most if the time but it does make me think.
> *My job now is to totally detach myself from her and feel nothing.. which is not easy. I guess the money thing woke me up and made me realise that I mean nothing to her apart from the occasional ego boost.*
> 
> What now? What's the next step? Been so long since I have been truly single..


Easier said than done but if you don't you'll just stay right where you are and have been.

There are advantages to being alone. If you can find them your future will be a lot brighter.


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## JohnA

Work on creating good boundaries for yourself. Start by learning to say no. 

Work on building a new relationship with your daughters. To start if they need money for something THEY ask you not your ex.


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## 225985

JohnA said:


> Work on creating good boundaries for yourself. Start by learning to say no.
> 
> 
> 
> Work on building a new relationship with your daughters. To start if they need money for something THEY ask you not your ex.




That's a great point. 

Now, if the kids need something exW asks Andy for money, he gives it and mom buys the thing. The kids only see mom giving them the thing. They don't see Andy paying. Mom gets credit for what Andy pays for. 

The kids should ask Dad and Dad provides it when he sees the kids. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy101

It's funny that my brother suggested the same thing. I will have to let the girls know in future where the money is being spent....

Predictably, conversations with the ex have been minimal. She doesn't text like she did before the divorce. I will see the kids for the first time in a week tomorrow. I don't expect much interaction with her. Her mind is else where...I sense it and in a way, I wish she would move on so to free me of the guilt that I have felt for so long. 

I don't expect things to improve now and I won't encourage anything...it's damn lonely though...it's easy to be grateful for even the smallest interactions with her to feel wanted I guess. I felt useful and appreciated in some way. A delusion I know but better than nothing other than the silence I experience every night. It's shxt.. I feel worthless and unwanted. My best was never enough and my confidence is low. I've thought about internet dating. It may help connect me with someone nice. It may even shake up the narsissist I married to see what she let go. Not sure what to do..there's only so much self inprovement I can stomach...


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## Evinrude58

Dude,
You are still in love with your wife. You're going to hurt some feelings if you internet date and make a woman think you're serious about a relationship. But, you definitely need to spend some time with other women. Let them know you're not ready for anything but friendship and get some female company. It is no doubt what you need. Few decent women will want to date you if they know your mind is on your ex, but try to be honest. They'll likely know anyway, given enough time.

Put the ex in your rearview mirror. You are letting her in the center of your road right now, and it's killing you. IT will take some time, but you'll get better. 

Honestly, meeting some other women helped me. But I probably hurt a couple of women in the process.


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## 225985

Andy,

I svcks but your ex wife has already moved on. 

Join some social groups, jogging club etc. Anything where you will meet people and make friends. 

If possible, YOU buy what the kids need and give it to them. They will remember that more that you telling them you paid for something. 

Stay strong my friend. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JohnA

Your wife successfully isolated you for years from friends and family. During this time she preyed on your self-doubt and flaws, always magnifying them. She held your hostage to them allowing her to never address her own flaws. Now she is raising your daughters to be the same. 

If you do not assert yourself in your daughters life she will turn them against you. Use IC ad family to address this issue.


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## JohnA

Andy also I think you have been plan B since before the original separation. Your the guy she could control, so she settled for you. You ave no idea how quickly you will forget about her when you are with someone who makes you plan A


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## Satya

Andy, you're going to be your own worst enemy if you don't learn to detach and make your happiness a.) a priority and b.) your own responsibility instead of so dependent upon what SHE may or may not do/act like.

It won't happen overnight, it'll be gradual, but it's got to start with small, independent steps. 

Learn to take control of your own destiny. Find your own identity, one that is wholly defined and owned by YOU. Not by how a woman feels about you or acts toward you... Especially then it's [email protected]


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## Andy101

Yes your right. I have been plan B for years. Even now I am a plan B if nobody suitable comes along..she never flirts/dates descent men either..might be her taste but they usually have a dysfunctional history or are cheaters themselves! I have always felt that there was other guys in the back ground since we met online. Always someone to flirt with..she never flirted with me for some reason. I have always been the dependable good natured man that picks up the pieces when it all turns to sxxt. Can't do that anymore but I do still love her which makes this whole letting go process very hard.


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## Evinrude58

It will be a whole lot easier when you get your mind on ANOTHER WOMAN.

Not a solution to all your problems. But certainly a solution to dwelling on this internet attention junky you married. John and others are right. You have probably never been at the top of her list.
Put her at the bottom of yours.

It really is not that difficult to get her out of your head. Like I said, just let someone else occupy that space in your mind that craves another person's attention. Your ex will evaporate like a spring mist.
Really, there are so many women out there that want a man. You are doing yourself a horrible disservice in not moving forward. You don't have to grovel for her attention, especially when there are others out there that are dying to give it to you.

Stop dwelling on the past and focus on the future. There are over 150 MILLION women in this country. Can you not find one better than the one you had? It may sound too easy to be true, but it really isn't. You found your ex online. How many others are online looking for YOU?????
Just choose wisely.........this time...


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## JohnA

Stick tight with your brother and his wife. Do not talk about your ex with them. Instead discuss just simple life plans and to do list. What's on sale at the super market, what are you making for dinner. Go to a movie with them. In short live your life.


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## VFW

Andy I don't want to be mean, but these issues you are having are your issues not hers. You are not abandoning her, you are divorced....period. You have a schedule to see your girls and do so on a regular bases. If she flirts, dates other men, it is no an issue as long as they are kind to your daughters. You should consider counseling to help you move on in life, you need to start taking care of you. I know this chapter in your life has not ended as you had hoped. However, you have taken too much credit for its demise and waited for a woman that is only interested in controlling you. This chapter is over cowboy, time to ride off into the sunset.


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## Andy101

Well I didn't go looking for anything but I have a 19 year old girl with a massive crush on me at work! Remember I am 44! She is nice, funny and very attractive. We have been messaging alot and she likes the idea of going on a date with me.. This is all too surreal..I don't know if this is right but after the emotional beating I have had it's welcome attention and could be fun. Not sure what to do here. It has thrown me out of my comfort zone and feel guilty for it for I feel I am betraying my family and also have issues with the age gap but she has brightened up my life even if temporarily..what do you all think?


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## Taxman

Andy
You need to date, and get back your life. You have been manipulated and I cannot help but think that the minute you are in a new relationship, suddenly her attitude will change. This, I have seen before. For some reason, be it punishment or screwed up personality, she is torturing you. A new relationship will do wonders for you, and frankly her reasons for ending the marriage hold very little water. I may be talking out my a## here, but she has been used to you as a dad and bank, suddenly she will have to compete. Suddenly there is someone younger and prettier. Suddenly you stop coming when she calls. Essentially, you have been her spouse when she wants without all that sex and cohabitation. This has sent many a woman without crystal clear reasons for divorce either back to the ex, or into therapy. One of my wife's girlfriends admitted that she sought the divorce to punish him for a number of perceived slights. She never considered that he'd go out and find someone new. She thought that they were tethered together. He as a whole new life, with his kids and without her. He is happy, her, bitter and angry with herself and anyone that she felt encouraged her to split.


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## 225985

Take her out for coffee. She will want to bang you. 

Don't.


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## Andy101

Don't? Blueinbr?


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## Tron

Yeah...don't. For now.

But take a photo or two of you guys at Starbucks, and post it on Facebook.

This to ensue:


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Don't? Blueinbr?




I was 49 chasing a 30 yo. That is a stretch. 

Do you want your eventual 19 yo daughter sleeping with a 44 yo coworker?

Rule of thumb: Half your age + 7

That is the minimum age woman to sleep with. 

Go for coffee. Mentor her. You can sleep with her mom.


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## farsidejunky

Where did the rule of thumb of half your age plus 7 come from? 

It seems rather arbitrary.


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## 225985

farsidejunky said:


> Where did the rule of thumb of half your age plus 7 come from?
> 
> It seems rather arbitrary.




I thought every guy knows this. I've known for decades. 

Google "age rule of thumb for dating"

Makes sense. If you are 20, the girl needs to be at least 17. 

If 30, the woman is 22 or older

At 40, she is 27+. It filters out that naive 19 yo.

Unless you are a billionaire, then you can date anyone of legal age.


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## Andy101

Yeah it's a little crazy...she is really into me which is great I'll see how we get on and I know this would just be a lust filled encounter..we have very little in common but she is very sweet and sexy as hell..that is why my battered ego is taking over my brain...I don't know where any of this will lead if sexual at all.. It's exciting but I don't want to be in a worst place when it all ends....


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## Diana7

Andy101 said:


> Well I didn't go looking for anything but I have a 19 year old girl with a massive crush on me at work! Remember I am 44! She is nice, funny and very attractive. We have been messaging alot and she likes the idea of going on a date with me.. This is all too surreal..I don't know if this is right but after the emotional beating I have had it's welcome attention and could be fun. Not sure what to do here. It has thrown me out of my comfort zone and feel guilty for it for I feel I am betraying my family and also have issues with the age gap but she has brightened up my life even if temporarily..what do you all think?


Hmm what is a teenager wanting from a 44 year old man old enough to be her Father?


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## Diana7

Andy101 said:


> Yeah it's a little crazy...she is really into me which is great I'll see how we get on and I know this would just be a lust filled encounter..we have very little in common but she is very sweet and sexy as hell..that is why my battered ego is taking over my brain...I don't know where any of this will lead if sexual at all.. It's exciting but I don't want to be in a worst place when it all ends....


If you know it will only be sex, is that a good idea to use a teenager in that way? Would you want your 19 year old daughter to be used that way by a 44 year old man? I wouldn't. Surely she is worth more than being seen as a sex object even if she seems keen? You are the older and hopefully more mature one here.


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## Diana7

blueinbr said:


> I was 49 chasing a 30 yo. That is a stretch.
> 
> Do you want your eventual 19 yo daughter sleeping with a 44 yo coworker?
> 
> Rule of thumb: Half your age + 7
> 
> That is the minimum age woman to sleep with.
> 
> Go for coffee. Mentor her. You can sleep with her mom.


 Dont agree with the go for coffee bit, she may the wrong idea.
Not sure who thought of the half your age plus 7, clearly an older man!


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## 225985

Diana7 said:


> Dont agree with the go for coffee bit, she may the wrong idea.
> 
> Not sure who thought of the half your age plus 7, clearly an older man!




We are talking minimum here, not ideal or desired. It stops 44 from chasing 19.


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## 225985

Diana7 said:


> Dont agree with the go for coffee bit, she may the wrong idea.
> 
> !



Maybe. Little Ms 29 inviting me to lunches resulted in me coming to TAM.


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## Diana7

blueinbr said:


> We are talking minimum here, not ideal or desired. It stops 44 from chasing 19.


yes I see what you mean. I always think that a very large age gap is weird and sometimes sick, and I wonder what these people would think about a nearly middle aged man wanting to have sex with their teenage daughter.


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## snerg

Diana7 said:


> Hmm what is a teenager wanting from a 44 year old man old enough to be her Father?


is this a serious or sarcastic question?

I honestly can't tell.


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## She'sStillGotIt

blueinbr said:


> I was 49 chasing a 30 yo. That is a stretch.
> 
> Do you want your eventual 19 yo daughter sleeping with a 44 yo coworker?
> 
> Rule of thumb: Half your age + 7
> 
> That is the minimum age woman to sleep with.


LMAO. Men are so delusional - and obviously *don't* own mirrors.

When I was 37, I would have laughed my ass off at some 60 year old, balding, out of shape fossil in orthopedic shoes thinking he was entitled to date me based on some moronic mathematic 'rule' you men pulled out of your asses years ago. 

The majority of the time, you only see these huge age differences when the guy is loaded or the woman had daddy issues or an "Uncle Bad Touch" in her past. Otherwise, good luck with that 'scientific' formula, boys.


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## Diana7

snerg said:


> is this a serious or sarcastic question?
> 
> I honestly can't tell.



Its serious. He is old enough to be her father.


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## Diana7

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LMAO. Men are so delusional - and obviously *don't* own mirrors.
> 
> When I was 37, I would have laughed my ass off at some 60 year old, balding, out of shape fossil in orthopedic shoes thinking he was entitled to date me based on some moronic mathematic 'rule' you men pulled out of your asses years ago.
> 
> The majority of the time, you only see these huge age differences when the guy is loaded or the woman had daddy issues or an "Uncle Bad Touch" in her past. Otherwise, good luck with that 'scientific' formula, boys.


Yes I agree. I have never been interested in a guy more than a few years older. My husband is a year younger. Yes, money, a home and well paid job will attract the young ladies, for what they can get out of the guy. She would NOT hang around to look after an old man when she is still only in her 40's.


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## 225985

Diana7 said:


> yes I see what you mean. I always think that a very large age gap is weird and sometimes sick, and I wonder what these people would think about a nearly middle aged man wanting to have sex with their teenage daughter.




Not their daughter. Their daughter's BFF.

In case, the formula prevents that. Hence why I posted it.

Andy, 19 is too young. I know you are flattered. 

The point is you are in your prime. You will have no problem finding and keeping a quality woman you deserve. 

Others say wait, i say you need a few "dates" even if just coffee to restore the confidence you ready have. 

No bedding Ms 19, even if she throws herself at you. Yep, that part sucks.

Btw, I'm sorry my posting of the minimum age formula cause all this threadjacking. 

What are you going to meet people? Not necessarily to find dates but to interact socially with?


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## Grapes

BAH - Im going to go the other way here.

First dont dip your pen in company ink. Thats a bad idea no matter what, especially if you actually have to work with her. Age doesn't matter. Thats not to say you cant go for coffee, flirt a little and have fun. but dont cross the line. too much to loose with work being involved.

Second - If a 19 y/o wants to bang you and you are completely honest that there is not going to be a relationship, by all means do it! why the h3ll wouldn't you as long as you are honest? A real relationship with a 19 y/o -i agree with others - no go zone.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

What could you possibly have in common with a 19 year old? Sorry BUT. . . . you're just thinking with your d**k. So, I guess that's fine as long as your BOTH on the same page. It's still a f***ed up dynamic to me. And, it's just not a good idea since you work with her. I just don't see it ending well. . . .


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## Andy101

Yes I get what everyone is saying..Its ludicrous...I was watching the film American Beauty tonight....saw myself a bit in Kevin Spacey..thing is..its not a fantasy here as such..she has been sending me raunchy photos of herself and can't wait to see me for lunch next week...she has been posted at another site and she doesn't actually work for me.. there are concerns though..
As you know from my threads, I haven't exactly had any positive attention for a long time..I've had the sxxt kicked out of me and although I am flattered, I am very cautious of this girl...She seems nice, very funny and comes from a good home..a religious family which makes me question her integrity but hey...when am I at my age going to get attention like this again? Will it result in a sexual relationship? Not sure..Is she after a good time and cash spent on her? Maybe..but she has to be careful too. I carry alot of weight in my job..she is still on probation..her behaviour has not been very professional by almost throwing herself at me and it being witnessed by other engineers who see the funny side but would watch my back as long as I am not reckless...It's difficult to tell at this stage what will happen..but although I am the mature one here..I'm also the most vulnerable since what happened wuth my wife..

Had the girls tonight..I kept looking at them and thinking 'what am I doing'...


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## farsidejunky

She'sStillGotIt said:


> The majority of the time, you only see these huge age differences when the guy is loaded or the woman had daddy issues or an "Uncle Bad Touch" in her past. Otherwise, good luck with that 'scientific' formula, boys.


Please reread this.

Danger...


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## 225985

Let us know how the coffee meet goes. 

Or is it tea where you live. 

Or grab a pint. What's the drinking age?


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## mjsquatch

Can't get that old Steely Dan song out of my head after reading this twist in your thread. Bonus points if you can work "make tonight a wonderful thing" or "please take me along when you slide on down" into your conversations with her.

I've browsed a bit of your thread and think you really deserve to enjoy this attention. As someone who has also been dealing with a very controlling wife, but who is earlier along in the separation process, this gives me hope for life after it is all over. 

However, on a more serious note, I would urge caution as others have with the age and coworker status of this woman. Not everyone has the same maturity level at that age, so maybe it could work out, but I'd be more skeptical than open at the outset. She might make it seem like its casual and adult at first, but then quickly latch on much more than you can manage. Its up to you to judge that maturity from what you know of her. I am also 44 and have an 18yr old daughter, who I could not possibly see fit to be in such a relationship, but I know she doesn't have the life experiences to prepare her for something like that.


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## sokillme

Andy101 said:


> Well I didn't go looking for anything but I have a 19 year old girl with a massive crush on me at work! Remember I am 44! She is nice, funny and very attractive. We have been messaging alot and she likes the idea of going on a date with me.. This is all too surreal..I don't know if this is right but after the emotional beating I have had it's welcome attention and could be fun. Not sure what to do here. It has thrown me out of my comfort zone and feel guilty for it for I feel I am betraying my family and also have issues with the age gap but she has brightened up my life even if temporarily..what do you all think?


Yeah this is going to work out well, /s. This is one of those things where if it looks to good to be true it probably is. First of all what are going to talk about Justin Bieber? That's the age of some of the kids who go to the school I work at. It's just weird. If you were the type who likes to party and just have fun and this was purely that I would say well it may not end bad, but that is not you. We can tell by your posts. 

Look my advice is you can actually pursue something and in some way, maybe she is screwed up, maybe she has ulterior motives, maybe you will hurt your job, maybe she is young and innocent and you are going to hurt her, but in some way this will blow up in your face and you will end up feeling worse. 

Or you can do the wise thing and use this as an ego boost, politely tell her you are too old for her and step back. Then take that as a sign that you are still attractive and there will be some other more adult person out there who would be interested in you. You know one whose largest pool of experience isn't the high-school she has been attending in the last 4 years. 

Seriously there is no way anything good is going to come out of it.


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## Livvie

I'm just a couple of years older than you. My son is 19. The thought of dating someone this age is beyond ridiculous. She is a TEENAGER. Do you want to date a teenager? Stop now, this will not enhance your life, at all. 

Also, for any future WOMAN you might become involved with for real... If she were to find out you were recently involved with a TEENAGER...Would probably run from you. I know I would. Total dealbreaker.


----------



## jld

Andy101 said:


> Yes I get what everyone is saying..Its ludicrous...I was watching the film American Beauty tonight....saw myself a bit in Kevin Spacey..thing is..its not a fantasy here as such..she has been sending me raunchy photos of herself and can't wait to see me for lunch next week...she has been posted at another site and she doesn't actually work for me.. there are concerns though..
> As you know from my threads, I haven't exactly had any positive attention for a long time..I've had the sxxt kicked out of me and although I am flattered, I am very cautious of this girl...She seems nice, very funny and comes from a good home..a religious family which makes me question her integrity but hey...when am I at my age going to get attention like this again? Will it result in a sexual relationship? Not sure..Is she after a good time and cash spent on her? Maybe..but she has to be careful too. I carry alot of weight in my job..she is still on probation..her behaviour has not been very professional by almost throwing herself at me and it being witnessed by other engineers who see the funny side but would watch my back as long as I am not reckless...It's difficult to tell at this stage what will happen..but although I am the mature one here..*I'm also the most vulnerable *since what happened wuth my wife..
> 
> Had the girls tonight..I kept looking at them and thinking 'what am I doing'...


Are you kidding us?


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## VFW

I know you want to get back in the saddle again, but would not recommend getting in an immediate relationship. Get comfortable in your skin again and usually when you are looking, something good comes along. I have no problem with adult fun, so you just have to be honest with her. She should not get introduced to your children. Just remember....no glove, no love.


----------



## Andy101

Well I took her out last night. We went to a restaurant. I tried to just enjoy her company but I couldn't help feeling I was with a very immature girl with little to say apart from fishing for compliments about her body. She couldn't leave her cell phone alone, constantly taking photos and putting them on snapchat what ever that is! She was trying to impress me by telling me how expensive her shoes and hand bag were and I really tried to have an asult conversation but it was difficult at times...still she felt she wanted to kiss me and hold hands but I can't do this. It feels wrong The age/ generation/ cultural gap is too much. She is very keen but I need to let her down gently somehow not used to this after the ordeal I have been through. Don't want to break her heart but can't let this continue..I've learned my lesson and realised what is important to me..Oddly, I miss my ex wife in away..she was real and had the same values as me. Not sure what my next move should be now.


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## farsidejunky

Heal.

And don't date someone that is young enough to be your daughter.


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## 225985

She was just too young. That doesn't mean you have to return to having feelings for your ex. Date someone older.

And from what you posted your EX does NOT have the same values as you. You would never block her access to the kids like she did to you. Never.


----------



## Diana7

Andy101 said:


> Yes I get what everyone is saying..Its ludicrous...I was watching the film American Beauty tonight....saw myself a bit in Kevin Spacey..thing is..its not a fantasy here as such..she has been sending me raunchy photos of herself and can't wait to see me for lunch next week...she has been posted at another site and she doesn't actually work for me.. there are concerns though..
> As you know from my threads, I haven't exactly had any positive attention for a long time..I've had the sxxt kicked out of me and although I am flattered, I am very cautious of this girl...She seems nice, very funny and comes from a good home..a religious family which makes me question her integrity but hey...when am I at my age going to get attention like this again? Will it result in a sexual relationship? Not sure..Is she after a good time and cash spent on her? Maybe..but she has to be careful too. I carry alot of weight in my job..she is still on probation..her behaviour has not been very professional by almost throwing herself at me and it being witnessed by other engineers who see the funny side but would watch my back as long as I am not reckless...It's difficult to tell at this stage what will happen..but although I am the mature one here..I'm also the most vulnerable since what happened wuth my wife..
> 
> Had the girls tonight..I kept looking at them and thinking 'what am I doing'...


 With all the circumstances around this girl and how she is acting, do you REALLY think its in anyway a wise choice to date her? Don't you want to be a good example for your daughters on how to behave? How to treat women? A good example at your work place of how a good boss behaves? She may be from a religious family, but she is acting terribly. Isn't it up to you as the mature one to stop this now? 

I can see this ending up as a complete mess. Be a man of integrity and do the right thing is my advise.


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## Diana7

Andy101 said:


> Well I took her out last night. We went to a restaurant. I tried to just enjoy her company but I couldn't help feeling I was with a very immature girl with little to say apart from fishing for compliments about her body. She couldn't leave her cell phone alone, constantly taking photos and putting them on snapchat what ever that is! She was trying to impress me by telling me how expensive her shoes and hand bag were and I really tried to have an asult conversation but it was difficult at times...still she felt she wanted to kiss me and hold hands but I can't do this. It feels wrong The age/ generation/ cultural gap is too much. She is very keen but I need to let her down gently somehow not used to this after the ordeal I have been through. Don't want to break her heart but can't let this continue..I've learned my lesson and realised what is important to me..Oddly, I miss my ex wife in away..she was real and had the same values as me. Not sure what my next move should be now.


 You wont break her heart, you have only been on one date! Even for a 21 year old she sounds very immature.


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## Diana7

VFW said:


> I know you want to get back in the saddle again, but would not recommend getting in an immediate relationship. Get comfortable in your skin again and usually when you are looking, something good comes along. I have no problem with adult fun, so you just have to be honest with her. She should not get introduced to your children. Just remember....no glove, no love.


 I agree with waiting. For me it was years before I was ready to date again. So many rush into new relationships and regret it later.


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## JohnA

She sounds just like your wife when the two of you meet !! Turned out really well te last time, right?


----------



## Andy101

She is similar in some ways to my ex..she did the same thing when she was 19...dating wealtier older men..flaunting herself...I've never experienced it as I didn't have any money and didn't hang out with girls like that. This chick messages me all day..she is a lot of fun..she told me she is a virgin but keeps sending me sexy snaps! Bit weird as I doubt she would let me touch her in that way..not that I would want to. 

I probably needed this to help me come out of my shell a bit. Maybe now I could find someone genuine...not sure as dating at this point may be a bad idea all together.


----------



## JohnA

No, not similar in someways, is your wife at 19, will marry someone like you and 15 years or so do the exact same-thing to her husband. You have a choices: use her and disgard when done like your WW FBs did, get invovled endure the same thing in 5 years just different dialogue, or stop it, explain what you have endured and challenge her to have a better life and provide references to do so. 

Crossroads: chose who you are!


----------



## JohnA

Perhaps @Uptown can provide some links to share with her. This is way out of his wheel house but he is well rounded and might have sone ideas.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> She is similar in some ways to my ex..she did the same thing when she was 19...dating wealtier older men..flaunting herself...I've never experienced it as I didn't have any money and didn't hang out with girls like that. This chick messages me all day..she is a lot of fun..she told me she is a virgin but keeps sending me sexy snaps! Bit weird as I doubt she would let me touch her in that way..not that I would want to.
> 
> I probably needed this to help me come out of my shell a bit. Maybe now I could find someone genuine...not sure as dating at this point may be a bad idea all together.


Sure you want to touch her "in that way." You should. But you can't or at least shouldn't.

Forget the "no dating for 1-2 years" advice. You can date. Coffee or dinners won't kill you or your date. It will help you get your feet back on the ground. 

BTW, she ain't no virgin.


----------



## Blondilocks

"Don't want to break her heart but can't let this continue.."

Call her and say that it is too soon for you to be dating but you know that she will make some lucky man a wonderful wife some day. And, no 'hey, let's be friends'.


----------



## Diana7

blueinbr said:


> Sure you want to touch her "in that way." You should. But you can't or at least shouldn't.
> 
> Forget the "no dating for 1-2 years" advice. You can date. Coffee or dinners won't kill you or your date. It will help you get your feet back on the ground.
> 
> BTW, she ain't no virgin.


Most people are in no way emotionally ready for another relationship for a couple of years after a divorce.


----------



## 225985

Diana7 said:


> Most people are in no way emotionally ready for another relationship for a couple of years after a divorce.




That may be true but he doesn't need to wait two years to go out for coffee, dinner or English tea. 

Not sure if you read the whole thread but Andy needs to see that he can get dates. He needs the confidence boost and waiting is actually detrimental to his situation.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Andy101 said:


> She is similar in some ways to my ex..she did the same thing when she was 19...dating wealtier older men..flaunting herself...I've never experienced it as I didn't have any money and didn't hang out with girls like that. *This chick messages me all day..she is a lot of fun..she told me she is a virgin but keeps sending me sexy snaps! *Bit weird as I doubt she would let me touch her in that way..not that I would want to.
> 
> I probably needed this to help me come out of my shell a bit. Maybe now I could find someone genuine...not sure as dating at this point may be a bad idea all together.


If she IS actually still a virgin, this is known as being a c0ck tease... good you are steering clear.


----------



## Diana7

blueinbr said:


> That may be true but he doesn't need to wait two years to go out for coffee, dinner or English tea.
> 
> Not sure if you read the whole thread but Andy needs to see that he can get dates. He needs the confidence boost and waiting is actually detrimental to his situation.


What we think we need and what is best for us can be 2 different things. Far healthier emotionally to spend time on healing and recovering and on the children.


----------



## 225985

Diana7 said:


> What we think we need and what is best for us can be 2 different things. Far healthier emotionally to spend time on healing and recovering and on the children.




The same canned answer doesn't work for everyone. Did you read his whole thread?


----------



## Andy101

I agree with blueinbr...This girl may be too young for me, too childish, but she lights me up! I needed this if nothing else to give me back the confidence and ability to see beyond the supressed tunnel visioned view of my life. She keeps me smiling all day. Today we met at head office..she looked incredible...but I see past her looks and know deep down that nothing would progress here apart from a friendship...I think I probably am ready to date again. This has been a kind of test to see if I can still flirt and charm a woman..call it a practice run for better things to come..be it my ex wife or someone else..I won't rush into anything though..I know I am damaged in some ways so will be careful not expose myself to a big fall. I've attached a clip of this girl..it reflects her personality and I hope you can see why I am attracted to her.


----------



## Andy101

This site won't let me post videos so heres a photo instead..


----------



## Satya

Andy, I suggest you remove her photo as you are endangering her privacy. She may go and post a million Instagrams or whatever, but that's her choice. It doesn't give you express permission to put her on a public forum. 

And I'll be honest, I think she is pretty. But the duckface has got to go. Stop acting like a teen. Sheesh!


----------



## Andy101

Ok. I have just found out that my ex W has met someone new. I can't really ellaborate as I am in shock. I don't know what to do. Feel like I have been played all these months...think I may need some hard advice now


----------



## farsidejunky

Of course she has. All of the hard advice you need has already been provided in this thread to this point, brother.

File, 180, detach.

I'm sorry that you just found out what most of us have suspected.


----------



## Evinrude58

You played yourself. 
Yes, it hurts. In this case, however, I think this pain is going to finally heal you and get you to move forward with your life. We've been begging you to do that all along.

It hurts. 
Use it.
Focus on moving forward.
Find someone to get YOUR mind on. No need to get married for a long time. Just find someone to get your mind off your ex.


----------



## SunCMars

3Xnocharm said:


> If she IS actually still a virgin, this is known as being a c0ck tease... good you are steering clear.


Young women go through this stage sometimes as early 15 or 16. She is testing her sexuality, her power over men. 

And power it is. Real power.


----------



## JohnA

Bullsyht he is not new!! Nothing has changed. She is who she is and will always be so. The question is who will you be. I left your threads early on because you convinced me you where who you portrayed yourself. I happened to look at this thread abs started reading and wondering why is this guy so down on himself. So just stop the pitty party and get off your ass and get a real life. Get her out of the house, get at 50 percent custody and be the stable parent. Do not let your ex gaslight you snd hold the mirror up to her actions.


----------



## Zyria

Andy101 said:


> Ok. I have just found out that my ex W has met someone new. I can't really ellaborate as I am in shock. I don't know what to do. Feel like I have been played all these months...think I may need some hard advice now


Maybe it's in response to learning you were dating a child. Stick to the high road, no matter what you learn.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Ok. I have just found out that my ex W has met someone new. I can't really ellaborate as I am in shock. I don't know what to do. Feel like I have been played all these months...think I may need some hard advice now




What are you in shock about? She is a woman. She can get dates between 20 and 70 based on what is between her legs. 

Her market value continues to drop while yours continues to increase. 

Darn. You have a hot 19 yo that wants to frack you. You are hot. You just lack confidence. 

You are in your prime. Go find a 35 yo. You will have your pick.


----------



## Diana7

Andy101 said:


> Ok. I have just found out that my ex W has met someone new. I can't really ellaborate as I am in shock. I don't know what to do. Feel like I have been played all these months...think I may need some hard advice now


Andy, I am so sorry, that must be so painful for you. :frown2:

Unlike most here, I advise against you jumping into a new affair/relationship while you are still hurting and needing lots of time to heal. Using women in an attempt to make yourself feel better wont work. Concentrate on your children and on getting your life back together.


----------



## sokillme

Andy101 said:


> Ok. I have just found out that my ex W has met someone new. I can't really ellaborate as I am in shock. I don't know what to do. Feel like I have been played all these months...think I may need some hard advice now


Just re-read the tread.

What are you losing exactly. Why are you treating her like she is the only women alive? You now how she is, she is still the same women who blew up your marriage. It's not going to change. She will blow up the next one. You are moving on to a better model remember?


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I agree with blueinbr...This girl may be too young for me, too childish, but she lights me up! I needed this if nothing else to give me back the confidence and ability to see beyond the supressed tunnel visioned view of my life. She keeps me smiling all day. Today we met at head office..she looked incredible...but I see past her looks and know deep down that nothing would progress here apart from a friendship...I think I probably am ready to date again. This has been a kind of test to see if I can still flirt and charm a woman..call it a practice run for better things to come..be it my ex wife or someone else..I won't rush into anything though..I know I am damaged in some ways so will be careful not expose myself to a big fall. I've attached a clip of this girl..it reflects her personality and I hope you can see why I am attracted to her.




Yes, you ARE ready to date again. 

But Andy, stop thinking it might be with your ex. 

You will do so much better.


----------



## BobSimmons

No hard advice but you are getting hard reality.

She's met someone else. Probably having a good old time but you can wait for her if you want.

Might be a long wait but you don't listen anyway so it doesn't matter.

Good luck man.


----------



## aine

Andy, you have to man up, start doing things for yourself. You are obviously a very attractive 44 year old if a 19 year old girl finds you irresistible 

Go back to the gym, join a dating website, start going on dates with women nearer to your age. There are plenty of good woman out there. You have nothing to lose.

Your XW has moved on, you have to move on, you have beautiful kids and will always have them in your life, you are still young, you could meet someone who will actually love you and treat you the way you want to be treated. You have your whole life ahead of you and it depends on what YOU decide to make of it.
Your new life begins TODAY!


----------



## Andy101

I know..things have to change. I have to protect myself and the kids...I have seen her do this before even though now it's not my business to get involved. The feelings are the same and I am re living the nightmare from the past. The difference being, I cannot go through it again and need to move on. I am also considering my options regarding the house. She knows that I will likely want to sell the house as I need to cut my ties and detach..even though this is a really hard thing for me to do. Something I never imagined I would have to deal with. I don't want the kids loosing their home but equally don't want men making themselves comfortable in my house...I even stipulated this in the divorce papers. I'm just so lost right now, even though I have been living alone with no real hope of any reconcilliation.


----------



## 225985

Andy,

The kids need a healthy father. You won't be healthy until you sell the house. 

You have some lingering hope of "going home", back to the house, back to your family, back to your wife. 

It hurts my friend but you are divorced. Just like millions of others. 

There is a better person out there than your ex. You will find her. 

The kids will adapt to a different place to live. They need you to heal. 

You are using the kids excuse to keep the house. But you really don't want to close the door on hope of going home. 

Andy, sell the house. You know it needs to be done. For you. And for a better father to the kids. 

No time is better than now.


----------



## SunCMars

Andy101 said:


> Ok. I have just found out that my ex W has met someone new. I can't really ellaborate as I am in shock. I don't know what to do. Feel like I have been played all these months...think I may need some hard advice now


You are kidding, right? She needs love, companionship and a life, also. Life is NOT all about you. I feel your pain. On one hand you claim love for her, on the other hand you dated another women. Why is that you can find love and she cannot?

She continually gave you bad tasting medicine for your porn use. You did not take the cure....aggressively enough.

*She is rather passive. So are you.* While you were separated, she wanted you to step up and take the reins. She loved you but would not tolerate you breaking the boundaries that she set for you. Yes, she was conflicted and it was hard for her to pull the trigger and eject you. She let you go, but never let go of the reins. You never snuggled back in. You talk a good story. Actions, not talk, matter

Had you been more upfront and in charge you would still be married to her.

My opinion? She is dating other men for two reasons:

1) She wants to see if she can make a life with someone else. She is testing the waters. I do not see her actions as being sexually inspired.
2) She wants to make you jealous. She still wants you. But she is too weak and too proud and maybe too hurt to change her direction. A direction away from you.

I hope you are NOT upset because she found someone else because you are merely jealous and your ego is punctured. I hope you are hurt because you love the women and all that she represents.

*Let her go or fight like hell to get her back*.


----------



## SunCMars

@lifeistooshort wrote one year ago (Jan 2016)



> The marriage can't work because your wife doesn't want to be married to you. You think it can work because you're not detached from her, she isn't the one who pushed you away
> So of course your perspective is different. Time for you to accept that.
> 
> Keep in mind that whether she gets involved with men isn't your business, your marriage is over.
> 
> It would be nice if she waits until you're officially divorced but after that she can do what she wants, just like you.
> 
> Keep bettering yourself as a person, that's good for you.





If it was true one year ago, it remains true today. She has a right to be happy.


----------



## Andy101

I know it's not my business but I still love her. We have so much still invested together. I know she doesn't want to be with me but I am struggling to let go. I am trying to deal with the news best I can and keep my distance. Not sure what else to do..


----------



## Evinrude58

What else to do?

Move on. Sound harsh?
It just means start over. It means finding someone that loves you back. It means being happy again. Is that so bad?

What you're doing to yourself is making you miserable. Stop doing it.


----------



## 225985

Andy,

"Not sure what else to do." ? You are very good at what you do professionally. Do you tell your clients that you are not sure what else to do? I think not. You KNOW what you need to do. You just are having trouble doing it. Do it one step at a time. 

Rather than make this into an impossible task of "moving on", do what a Project Manager would do. Break the project down into individual achieveable tasks.

1) Put the house up for sale. Just do it. Stop procrastinating.
2) Any money for extras gets handed by you to the girls, not to your wife.
3) Any assets in the house that are still yours get removed.
4) Any pictures of ex in your current home get removed. Not thrown out, just put into a box.
5) Purge your belongings of anything that reminds you of ex. 
6) Sign up for dating sites.
7) Hang out with co-workers. They have sisters, female friends, wives that have friends that can help match you up.
8) You need dates. Not so much a relationship but dates.
9) Join a group with activity you like that has women so that you can get used to being around them.
10) Read books on building confidence.
11) Are you in therapy? You love an image of your wife. You CAN'T love the woman that we read about in these 400+ posts. She is a controlling, manipulate *****.

Make you own list.

It will kill you to think another guy is in your house with your wife.

Get rid of the fracking house now.

So your next assignment is to make you project task list (not mine above but there will be some overlaps) and post it into this thread by Monday.

And we want to hear about what you are doing socially, even if it is drinking a pint at the pub with your mates. Me, I'm going to the bar tonight with some coworkers and some friends. It's better than sitting home sulking. And no drunk texting your ex. Turn off your phone when you enter the pub. 

Blue

BTW, you don't "STILL have so much invested." You co-parent. That is it.


----------



## Openminded

Many of us still love the person we know doesn't work for us. But we move on anyway -- no matter how much we would rather not have to. 

Your wife isn't interested in you and hasn't been for awhile now. Don't use love for her as a reason to not fully commit to a new life. Time to let that part of your life go.


----------



## 225985

Openminded said:


> Many of us still love the person we know doesn't work for us. But we move on anyway -- no matter how much we would rather not have to.
> 
> 
> 
> Your wife isn't interested in you and hasn't been for awhile now. Don't use love for her as a reason to not fully commit to a new life. Time to let that part of your life go.




Easier said than done. 

How do you move on when you have to keep seeing the person?


----------



## Davidmidwest

Hi,

No buddy thing, and no friends with benefits. Ask to move back in, commit to working on the relationship, sex, romance, communication, therapy by a trained therapist by John Gottman, Ph.D. If you both decide to give it a go do this too. Go to a Dr. John Gottman Ph.D's marriage seminars, listed to Dr. Gottmans Audio CD book called. "what makes love last." Six Audio CD's and appendixes that you both complete to understand your relationship, communication style, trust and betrayal levels that if you do not attune to will ultimately lead to divorce. He can tell up to 75% accuracy who will divorce. This relationship scientist knows beyond scientific fact how to fix marriages to the pre-marital bliss state for the most part for most couples. Read and do all the book work and self and together practice to bet back that spark, or feeling to begin a new in a trust and safe place together.

In Recap
Give a dealine for her to choose to comeback and start loving.
Listen and be supportive, No you did statements to her, If she does them to you stay neutral, say I hear you, then say is there anything else that I need to hear that I had not asked or in-tune to understand. You just opened a door for a pleasing discussion or peace that she feels heard.
See a therapist
Do read, listen, practice the stuff from the book i mentioned above. It will list everything you both to learn that you had no clue what both of you were doing wrong. Once you start this book you are not going to believe how you both have been sabotaging real intimacy to love where you leave, separate or divorce from the relationship. I am not talking sex her. That is later in the book.

Work on the tips and master them. Your marriage should become what hoped for and dreamed of.
If you are at a point that you feel that there is no chance. It's o.k. Read, listen, and do the exercises because it will only make you wise, relate better, and understand why we treat a stranger better than our spouses.

Good Luck.

David


----------



## 225985

Davidmidwest said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> No buddy thing, and no friends with benefits. Ask to move back in, commit to working on the relationship, sex, romance, communication, therapy by a trained therapist by John Gottman, Ph.D. If you both decide to give it a go do this too. Go to a Dr. John Gottman Ph.D's marriage seminars, listed to Dr. Gottmans Audio CD book called. "what makes love last." Six Audio CD's and appendixes that you both complete to understand your relationship, communication style, trust and betrayal levels that if you do not attune to will ultimately lead to divorce. He can tell up to 75% accuracy who will divorce. This relationship scientist knows beyond scientific fact how to fix marriages to the pre-marital bliss state for the most part for most couples. Read and do all the book work and self and together practice to bet back that spark, or feeling to begin a new in a trust and safe place together.
> 
> 
> 
> In Recap
> 
> Give a dealine for her to choose to comeback and start loving.
> 
> Listen and be supportive, No you did statements to her, If she does them to you stay neutral, say I hear you, then say is there anything else that I need to hear that I had not asked or in-tune to understand. You just opened a door for a pleasing discussion or peace that she feels heard.
> 
> See a therapist
> 
> Do read, listen, practice the stuff from the book i mentioned above. It will list everything you both to learn that you had no clue what both of you were doing wrong. Once you start this book you are not going to believe how you both have been sabotaging real intimacy to love where you leave, separate or divorce from the relationship. I am not talking sex her. That is later in the book.
> 
> 
> 
> Work on the tips and master them. Your marriage should become what hoped for and dreamed of.
> 
> If you are at a point that you feel that there is no chance. It's o.k. Read, listen, and do the exercises because it will only make you wise, relate better, and understand why we treat a stranger better than our spouses.
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck.
> 
> 
> 
> David




Stop posting this spam garbage all over this site.

Same cut and paste infomercial you posted several times already?

How did that advice work for you?


----------



## Openminded

blueinbr said:


> Easier said than done.
> 
> How do you move on when you have to keep seeing the person?


Like everything else in life, it's much easier said than done. 

What I did was constantly tell myself (for days, weeks, and many months) that he was not good for me and I had to take charge of my life and move on or else spend the rest of my life stuck in limbo. 

It was tough -- especially in the beginning when it was literally every minute that I was telling myself that -- but it became easier as time passed. One day I realized that while I still loved him, and always would, I also felt indifferent. There was no longer an "us". He had his life and I had mine. I was done.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

blueinbr said:


> Easier said than done.
> 
> How do you move on when you have to keep seeing the person?


No, it really isn't when you STOP CHASING the person. You take it a day at a time and learn to mind your own business. Andy CHOSE to take every little thing she showed him as a sign of love. Hopefully, this new man will be the slap he needs to get out of his self dug hole.


----------



## Andy101

Yes I have to admit that the new man has been a wake up call. It brings back all the bad memories from the past but I can't stick around for another beating. She understands that I don't want to see her or speak to her even though deep down I want to. She has become like a drug to me . But I realise that I probably never really had her. At least not for last 4 years. Men were always in the back ground trying their luck. I am trying to put one foot in front of the other. Its as if we have just split up again as looking back, I have been in denial for this past year. Blue wants me to make a list and that will come but right now I am remembering when I first met her and at the same time, I feel a bit anxious as to what to do first. So much time wasted over a pipe dream. The business with the house will take time. I need to consult a lawyer first. I will collect the rest of my stuff from the attic and change my address. I need a clean break. All this feels so surreal. Never thought I would actually seriously start doing this.


----------



## JohnA

Your wife is broken and will never have a real marriage. You seem very co-dependent and until that is correct neither will you. Stop the pity party focus on your strengths and work on your weakness.


----------



## 225985

I was drugged on Friday night so I know a little what you are going through. 

You dont need a big list to start. Three items in the next 7 days

1) start changing your address on all your papers
2) get your stuff out of the attic
3). Add one more

Going to the gym is always at the top. Number 0. Are you going to the gym?


----------



## Andy101

I am bit fracked off today. My daughter told me that they spent the day with mummy's friend and his kids. Am I supposed to be informed that she is introducing the kids to her new man? Didn't realise things were progressing so quickly...


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I am bit fracked off today. My daughter told me that they spent the day with mummy's friend and his kids. Am I supposed to be informed that she is introducing the kids to her new man? Didn't realise things were progressing so quickly...




Was that stipulated in the divorce decree?


----------



## 225985

Andy,

Don't panic. And we don't want you to regress. 

Are you taking any meds for anxiety?


----------



## Andy101

No medication for anxiety. I'm not really anxious as such, just in shock. I've had a bad weekend, my car was broken into, I found out the 19 yr old just plays games with older men, but I knew that really, and my ex has a new guy...alot for three days.

I spoke to my ex w tonight to discuss our arrangements and I wanted to know why she had shut me out. She said that she was worried that I would get angry about the new guy and want to stop all communication. She said that we can still be friends and carry on as before and both have an input in the girls lives together regardless of what she does in her private life. She is aware that the house will have to be sold and accepts that I have to do what I think is right.

Thats fine. I will just carry on with my own plans and dig myself out of this hole and move forward. I've been a fool for long enough. I'll deal with the house and give her notice. 

Just have to deal with the reality check that I've been avoiding this past year.


----------



## 225985

Make an action item list. Three items to start. And do it.


----------



## Andy101

Went to the gym today as a first step..my ex was in there too! She looked amazing, she's lost weight and looks hot..I told her she did..and I think thats one of my biggest problems...I idolise her body, I can't imagine anyone being like her..she talks to me like dirt and I don't seem to mind...now she's getting herself fit for the other guy...How do I get her looks out of my head and see her for who she is? Its a small town, I can't avoid her.


----------



## Steve1000

Andy101 said:


> Went to the gym today as a first step..my ex was in there too! She looked amazing, she's lost weight and looks hot..I told her she did..and I think thats one of my biggest problems...I idolise her body, I can't imagine anyone being like her..she talks to me like dirt and I don't seem to mind...now she's getting herself fit for the other guy...How do I get her looks out of my head and see her for who she is? Its a small town, I can't avoid her.


I've been reading your posts. You're not really catching any breaks, are you. Have you considered leaving your town for at least a while? Maybe selling your house and spend the next year on the beaches of Thailand?


----------



## golfpanther

Andy101 said:


> Went to the gym today as a first step..my ex was in there too! She looked amazing, she's lost weight and looks hot..I told her she did..and I think thats one of my biggest problems...I idolise her body, I can't imagine anyone being like her..she talks to me like dirt and I don't seem to mind...now she's getting herself fit for the other guy...How do I get her looks out of my head and see her for who she is? Its a small town, I can't avoid her.


Don't tell her she looks good! I'm a similar situation where I still find my STBXW extremely attractive. I haven't run into her, but I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of knowing how sexy I think she is now. I'd think, oh yes, but never say it aloud.

There are other women out there like her and even more attractive, it's just your subjectivity and past that are clouding your ability to see that in someone else. That'll probably take some time to go away.

One way you could try to avoid her is to go to another gym if possible. You had to know she went there too so it was always going to be a possibility.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Went to the gym today as a first step..my ex was in there too! She looked amazing, she's lost weight and looks hot..I told her she did..and I think thats one of my biggest problems...I idolise her body, I can't imagine anyone being like her..she talks to me like dirt and I don't seem to mind...now she's getting herself fit for the other guy...How do I get her looks out of my head and see her for who she is? Its a small town, I can't avoid her.




Who's watching the kids?

Go to another gym. 

Stop telling her she is hot. Jeez. 

If you are going to put up with her talking to you like dirt, and not minding, quit posting and see a therapist. We can't help you. 

You should be banging a hot girl every night. 

What is your weight and height?


----------



## Andy101

The treating me like dirt has stopped. I had enough her bs. The final straw came when she told me not to contact her anymore as she would tell me if there was a problem. She became hostile because I wasn't happy about this guy being around the girls so soon. 

I called her on all her flirting and game playing with other men over the years I finally told her what I think she is..it was liberating...she seems to think that I wasn't man enough to confront her and stop her looking else where. She believes that I buried my head in the sand when the marriage needed saving.

She can't excuse or deny what she did to me and it doesn't matter anymore. What matters is that I call her to task from this day forward as maybe I should have done instead of being weak mr nice guy. 

She needs attention like I've never known. The new guy will get it all soon..noy my problem....what I need is closure on this nightmare...that would the best thing now but how do people get closure? How can I clear my mind of all the regrets and failures of the last 10 years? I do see the future finally. Just took a 2x4 to the head to get there.


----------



## Andy101

Blue..I'm in the gym from tomorrow evening..


----------



## Tony774

My wife and I split 3 months ago, after I lost her trust when once again I smoked weed when I promised I wouldn't. I'd only have a toke every 3 months but the fact I kept doing it was grounds for her
to leave me. I was with her for 17 years and have 2 great kids together. 
She is my soul and best friend but at the same time she was very controlive to the point I didn't even know how much I had become molded by her. Funny thing is I was still never good enough. My whole family could see I wasn't me anymore. But over such a long period of time I didn't see it. 
I was her first and only so she has no one to compare me to. But although I made mistakes I was always there for her and the kids and put myself last in many ways to show her how important she was.
Problem is I have know idea who I am now. My wife and best friend, just gone! She is being so dame nice durring all this, it screws me up because it's like we are the same but without the relationship if that makes any sense? I understand I lost her trust! A big deal breaker, but with all my other great qualities I feel she should have worked with me to stop my issues,rather then throw it all away! Am I wrong here? Is what I've done worth where I am? I feel we were worth fighting for, she had done worse and I looked past it (not cheated). Do I just move on? Or will her gaining more expirance show her that we were actually pretty sepecial?


----------



## farsidejunky

Tony774 said:


> My wife and I split 3 months ago, after I lost her trust when once again I smoked weed when I promised I wouldn't. I'd only have a toke every 3 months but the fact I kept doing it was grounds for her
> to leave me. I was with her for 17 years and have 2 great kids together.
> She is my soul and best friend but at the same time she was very controlive to the point I didn't even know how much I had become molded by her. Funny thing is I was still never good enough. My whole family could see I wasn't me anymore. But over such a long period of time I didn't see it.
> I was her first and only so she has no one to compare me to. But although I made mistakes I was always there for her and the kids and put myself last in many ways to show her how important she was.
> Problem is I have know idea who I am now. My wife and best friend, just gone! She is being so dame nice durring all this, it screws me up because it's like we are the same but without the relationship if that makes any sense? I understand I lost her trust! A big deal breaker, but with all my other great qualities I feel she should have worked with me to stop my issues,rather then throw it all away! Am I wrong here? Is what I've done worth where I am? I feel we were worth fighting for, she had done worse and I looked past it (not cheated). Do I just move on? Or will her gaining more expirance show her that we were actually pretty sepecial?


Tony:

You will get much better advice if you start your own thread. I would put it in the General Relationship forum.

Take care, and welcome to TAM.


----------



## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Went to the gym today as a first step..my ex was in there too! *She looked amazing, she's lost weight and looks hot..I told her she did.*.and I think thats one of my biggest problems...I idolise her body, I can't imagine anyone being like her..she talks to me like dirt and I don't seem to mind...now she's getting herself fit for the other guy...How do I get her looks out of my head and see her for who she is? Its a small town, I can't avoid her.


She's ran you out of her life yet you can't stay away from her.

Get rid of your Mr Nice guy mentality. If you can't maintain a hard 180 you'll just continue on the path you've been on for a long time.

You can't seem to grasp it.


----------



## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Blue..I'm in the gym from tomorrow evening..




Hi Andy,

How was the gym? Are are in the same one or a new one?


----------



## Diana7

Andy101 said:


> Went to the gym today as a first step..my ex was in there too! She looked amazing, she's lost weight and looks hot..I told her she did..and I think thats one of my biggest problems...I idolise her body, I can't imagine anyone being like her..she talks to me like dirt and I don't seem to mind...now she's getting herself fit for the other guy...How do I get her looks out of my head and see her for who she is? Its a small town, I can't avoid her.


Why did you tell her that? That was the worst thing you could have done. :surprise: 
Its sad that you are like many men who are only interested in a woman's body, and not the sort of person she is. I will never understand that obsession. If a man I know was good looking but not a nice person I would not find him in the least attractive. 

If you do see her, don't oggle, and don't say anything.


----------



## 225985

Diana7 said:


> Its sad that you are like many men who are only interested in a woman's body, and not the sort of person she is.
> 
> 
> 
> .



Did you read his whole thread? If you did you wouldn't have posted that


----------



## Andy101

Hi all.
I would like some hard advice. My ex crossed the line tonight. I couldn't believe my ears.
I am on a course a few hundred miles away. I was due to pick up the kids on Friday night but will be delayed. My ex told me that if I didn't pick them up, her new boyfriend would be putting them to bed and reading them their story and then he would replace me as their dad. She continued that she would then pursue me for child maintenance additional to what I am paying...All becuase she had plans with him that night.

I don't really know what to do. The house will be sold now without question but I didn't want to put the kids in that position. I also didn't want to force her and the kids to move away if they lost their home. 

I told her how disgusting she is and thanked her for showing me the person she really is and to keep this guy out of our daughters room.

Any advice?


----------



## GusPolinski

Stand your ground.


----------



## golfpanther

Andy101 said:


> Hi all.
> I would like some hard advice. My ex crossed the line tonight. I couldn't believe my ears.
> I am on a course a few hundred miles away. I was due to pick up the kids on Friday night but will be delayed. My ex told me that if I didn't pick them up, her new boyfriend would be putting them to bed and reading them their story and then he would replace me as their dad. She continued that she would then pursue me for child maintenance additional to what I am paying...All becuase she had plans with him that night.
> 
> I don't really know what to do. The house will be sold now without question but I didn't want to put the kids in that position. I also didn't want to force her and the kids to move away if they lost their home.
> 
> I told her how disgusting she is and thanked her for showing me the person she really is and to keep this guy out of our daughters room.
> 
> Any advice?


My goodness, Andy, this is just a trainwreck. I'm so sorry she's this kind of person, but you're right, at least she's showed you fully now.

He can't replace you as their father by simply being there for a bedtime story. Gus is right, stand your ground.

This reeks of a jaded lover that still has feelings for you and now is just trying to hurt you because you didn't give her what she wanted. I'm not at all saying you should have at this point; clearly someone that makes that kind of threat doesn't deserve your forgiveness.

The really crappy thing about this is the relationship with this guy isn't going to last. If it was healthy it could actually help you move on to a better life that's free of her but if she's using him as leverage against you already, f#$k man. As soon as it ends don't be surprised if she pivots back to wanting forgiveness or another chance.

I don't even know what advice to give other than to get your lawyer involved and start documenting this kind of stuff because it'll likely get worse until the new BF realizes she's completely unstable. I truly feel for you.


----------



## 225985

Communicate only through text and email. In that way you have a paper trail to show any judge if needed.

Concerning "* I didn't want *to put the kids in that position. *I also didn't want to force her* and the kids to move away if they lost their home", your EX WIFE put the kids in that position. SHE made that choice, not you.

You didn't FORCE her to break up the family.


----------



## Chuck71

Andy101 said:


> Hi all.
> I would like some hard advice. My ex crossed the line tonight. I couldn't believe my ears.
> I am on a course a few hundred miles away. I was due to pick up the kids on Friday night but will be delayed. My ex told me that if I didn't pick them up, her new boyfriend would be putting them to bed and reading them their story and then he would replace me as their dad. She continued that she would then pursue me for child maintenance additional to what I am paying...All becuase she had plans with him that night.
> 
> I don't really know what to do. The house will be sold now without question but I didn't want to put the kids in that position. I also didn't want to force her and the kids to move away if they lost their home.
> 
> I told her how disgusting she is and thanked her for showing me the person she really is and to keep this guy out of our daughters room.
> 
> Any advice?


When you are sick and tired of being Mr. Nice Guy, let me know......

Be glad to give you advice again.


----------



## SunCMars

Andy101 said:


> Well I took her out last night. We went to a restaurant. I tried to just enjoy her company but I couldn't help feeling I was with a very immature girl with little to say apart from fishing for compliments about her body. She couldn't leave her cell phone alone, constantly taking photos and putting them on snapchat what ever that is! She was trying to impress me by telling me how expensive her shoes and hand bag were and I really tried to have an asult conversation but it was difficult at times...still she felt she wanted to kiss me and hold hands but I can't do this. It feels wrong The age/ generation/ cultural gap is too much. She is very keen but I need to let her down gently somehow not used to this after the ordeal I have been through. Don't want to break her heart but can't let this continue..I've learned my lesson and realised what is important to me..Oddly, I miss my ex wife in away..she was real and had the same values as me. Not sure what my next move should be now.


God.

Get away from her.

You are in the Twilight Zone. You have been pulled into her Little Missy Mist. Do you not feel so out of place? Going back in time?

Your second childhood arrives in your Eighties, not now!

Hey, Pink Panther, Exit, Stage left!


----------



## Satya

The best way to win the game is to not play. 

Her response is emotional threatening at its finest and you fell for it. 

You need to learn to stop fearing her and be proactive about protecting yourself and your kids. Get the ball rolling behind the scenes. Document everything and keep it safe in 2 places.


----------



## Chuck71

Popism..... You can't lose a game if you take it away before you can lose it


----------



## manfromlamancha

Keep hold of any emails like this where she is threatening you.


----------



## AVR1962

Andy101 said:


> Hi all.
> I would like some hard advice. My ex crossed the line tonight. I couldn't believe my ears.
> I am on a course a few hundred miles away. I was due to pick up the kids on Friday night but will be delayed. My ex told me that if I didn't pick them up, her new boyfriend would be putting them to bed and reading them their story and then he would replace me as their dad. She continued that she would then pursue me for child maintenance additional to what I am paying...All becuase she had plans with him that night.
> 
> I don't really know what to do. The house will be sold now without question but I didn't want to put the kids in that position. I also didn't want to force her and the kids to move away if they lost their home.
> 
> I told her how disgusting she is and thanked her for showing me the person she really is and to keep this guy out of our daughters room.
> 
> Any advice?


Do not reply to her!!!!! She is using manipulation tactics and is angry she is not getting what she wants. If she truly comes thru on her threat this woman is dangerous.


----------



## Andy101

Another vile torrent followed last night. I was told that if I didn't get back in time to collect the kids, she would have no choice but to invite her guy to the house and take the relationship to the next level, sooner than she had hoped. She continued by saying that she wanted to keep her dating on a casual basis but I left her no choice!

I did make it back and get the girls out of there. I have no idea if that was her plan anyway tonight and she was just emotionally blackmailing me.

This is a woman I trusted and loved for over a decade. I am struggling to believe that someone could be so cruel to another human being let alone the father of her kids.

I will contact my accountant and solicitor on Monday regarding protecting my assets. I am worried that if try and sell the house right now, she may go for my money. In a way she exposed her hand so it will give me some time to get my house in order.

My mental state is my main concern now. She is barely recognisable since the new guy..she looks at me like she wants to kill me...how can she just switch like this? 
Is this a normal pattern of behaviour when someone has a new love interest after divorce? 

She hates me ignoring her and just makes her more demanding and vindictive. I'm not being mr nice guy. I'm just being careful of her games as she really is dangerous.


----------



## GusPolinski

You've just taught her exactly how to pull your strings.

Dance, puppet.

Bravo.


----------



## 225985

Andy,

You got it right. She hates you ignoring her. 

Now you know what she really is like. The love goggles are off you. 

Eventually you will see she ALWAYS was like this. You just couldn't see it. We could. From the start. You wrote it but just couldn't see it. Now you do. Finally. 

Next step. Protect your assets and parental rights. Play nice while you get that done. Until it's done. 

She has no intention to keep it causal. She wants the kids gone so she can **** him at his place. She sees the kids as baggage and hindrance to her sexual fun. 

Such an evil witch and mother. 

You made progress here. Well done. 

Knowledge is power. You are gaining the knowledge.


----------



## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Another vile torrent followed last night. I was told that if I didn't get back in time to collect the kids, she would have no choice but to invite her guy to the house and take the relationship to the next level, sooner than she had hoped. She continued by saying that she wanted to keep her dating on a casual basis but I left her no choice!
> 
> I did make it back and get the girls out of there. I have no idea if that was her plan anyway tonight and she was just emotionally blackmailing me.
> 
> This is a woman I trusted and loved for over a decade. I am struggling to believe that someone could be so cruel to another human being let alone the father of her kids.
> 
> Why can't you believe? This maybe worse but certainly isn't new.
> 
> I will contact my accountant and solicitor on Monday regarding protecting my assets. I am worried that if try and sell the house right now, she may go for my money. In a way she exposed her hand so it will give me some time to get my house in order.
> 
> My mental state is my main concern now. She is barely recognisable since the new guy..she looks at me like she wants to kill me...how can she just switch like this?
> Is this a normal pattern of behaviour when someone has a new love interest after divorce?
> 
> You've told her through your actions, etc that she can treat you as she pleases.
> 
> She hates me ignoring her and just makes her more demanding and vindictive. I'm not being mr nice guy. I'm just being careful of her games as she really is dangerous.
> 
> You were way past Mr Nice a Guy a long time ago.


People treat you like you let them. She has you under total control. Maybe you should try standing up for yourself. Nothing else worked. 

It isn't as if she hasn't been jerking you around for a long, long time


----------



## 225985

Andy,

Besides your own happiness you have one other mission in life. 

To make sure your two girls don't end up like your wife. 

Focus on that. And your happiness. 

Face it. You are in your prime. Physically. Professionally. Women will want you if you let them. Ditch the *****.


----------



## Satya

Andy, please don't take offense, but you're like her dog. She has only to glare at you and you show your belly.

Find your nuts!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Andy101 said:


> Another vile torrent followed last night. I was told that if I didn't get back in time to collect the kids, she would have no choice but to invite her guy to the house and take the relationship to the next level, sooner than she had hoped. She continued by saying that she wanted to keep her dating on a casual basis but I left her no choice!
> 
> I did make it back and get the girls out of there. I have no idea if that was her plan anyway tonight and she was just emotionally blackmailing me.
> 
> This is a woman I trusted and loved for over a decade. I am struggling to believe that someone could be so cruel to another human being let alone the father of her kids.
> 
> I will contact my accountant and solicitor on Monday regarding protecting my assets. I am worried that if try and sell the house right now, she may go for my money. In a way she exposed her hand so it will give me some time to get my house in order.
> 
> My mental state is my main concern now. She is barely recognisable since the new guy..she looks at me like she wants to kill me...how can she just switch like this?
> Is this a normal pattern of behaviour when someone has a new love interest after divorce?
> 
> She hates me ignoring her and just makes her more demanding and vindictive. I'm not being mr nice guy. I'm just being careful of her games as she really is dangerous.


 I am going to be harsh.

Let's go back to the early stages of the thread. 


This is what she did and you as well:



Andy101 said:


> CynthiaDe....I don't discuss her previous behaviour because I don't feel it is relevant anymore. She has changed since then.
> 
> But for the record, we separated because again she felt unappreciated and neglected. Porn was not an issue, *she had a kind of mid life crisis where she wondered if the grass was greener. It wasn't. Her personality changed, she would dress provocatively and go looking for attention. She wasn't herself. She had issues wich she attempted to solve and although it was difficult watching other men have her, I stayed strong and she realised that she didn't want to loose me to another woman.*


This is what she does:


Andy101 said:


> Chuck71
> 
> You are right in thinking that she just uses me but despises me. It has been more obvious to me in the last few hours.
> 
> I made the mistake of trying to kiss her on the cheek as I left to take my D4 to the beach.* She then messaged me to tell me to stop trying to woo her as the relationship is over permanently.* Got back sun burnt on a very hot day and not even a hello or glass of water. I left...nothing more was said.





Andy101 said:


> Well it was all going so well....we were getting on better and she started to feel better around me and invited me for dinner. It was great and finally she thought that I had turned a corner and she could see all the positive work I had done. Then she found out that i had been in the house and I told her that I called the police. She is now furious and doesn't want much to do with me. She made me out to be the one in the wrong and although I have every right to go in the house, she says it's ethically wrong and that no friend would have called the police. Feel like crap and after a 3 hour argument, I tried to make peace but she isn't interested. How can it all go wrong so badly in so little time? Have I been out if order for what I did? She has dragged up the past and made me pay for it. Need sone advice now....





Andy101 said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your support. I wish I could buy you all a beer!
> *
> I know she is playing games but what's scary is that I don't think she realises it half the time. She is very matter of fact and precise in everything she does. She shows me tenderness but then goes cold. The lock incident has put everything on ice and she says that she is not easy to get around and that she will 'forgive' me in her own time. *
> 
> She has this idea that we are just going to continue to co-parent in this torturous relationship. *She can call on me when it suits*. The kids though, get to see me alot and love daddy coming over but that would be restricted if a third party was involved It's a hard call at the moment.
> 
> I also feel terribly lonely. Seeing the kids and my stbx fills that void. I feel that even though she treats me like dirt, it's better than no company at all...sad but true...




This is what you have made yourself see and believe.


> The woman I see now, is not the same as back then. *She is older and feels less attractive and doesn't want complications in her life. She works hard and looks after the children. She doesn't dress very well anymore and takes little pride in her appearance. *She just wants to be a mom and* says that no man is going to be a pot of gold. She needs me but can't be married to me so sees the only solution right now for our family is, in time, to be good friends and look out for each other. *
> 
> That is why I don't think that she is cheating or intends to see anyone else. It's sad to look at her so heart broken. She is just doing what she can to keep some form of family dynamic.
> 
> I may be selfish in wanting more but why wouldn't I? She says that I had everything and I get it. I see what I have lost. I want the years of lost intimacy, I want to be the man she says I could have been. It's so hard.
> 
> So me or her dating someone else would only hurt our family more. *There is no sparkle in her eyes, just an exhausted woman who has to juggle everything on her own. *Yes it is her choice and I try and help where I can with the kids but her *wanting to date another man? ....no chance.*



These posts are from April of last year.

She told you your place in her life and you refused to listen. You related your story and you refused to listen to any of us. The problem isn't her or us in this equation. The signs were all there, just going by your words, but you thought you still had a chance. No, dude, you don't get to claim you aren't Mr. Nice Guy. Many of us have been in this thread since the beginning, you just started standing up for yourself and when she snapped you freaked and came running as fast as you could.

This is ugly and I hope you step up to the plate. I mean she threatened you with "going to the next level." I love my kids, but I would have been LATE as hell on that day.


----------



## Andy101

Yes you guys are right. When you pull up old replies, I can see I was being played all along. I just thought by being nice to her and improving myself she would come round. I even bought her a £400 coat for Christmas because she was cold. Now she wears it to go out with the guy..what a sucker! 

Last night I went to pick the kids up and she I asked what she was going to see as she had told me she tickets for something...she didn't have tickets...just more lies. She didn't go out at all it was all a nasty game. Her concern is that I was only having the girls on a saturday night for the past year and she now wants me to have them for the full weekend. As I intially refused out of principle as she kept saying that WE had agreed to this..we hadn't...she dictated what she wanted and I have to roll with it. I don't mind them staying..just not on her terms as like blue said, its just for her sexual endeavours.

She wants me to take all my stuff from the attic..which I will do as I need to slowly remove any bargaining tools. I will leave the house til last as it will no doubt send her in a frenzy. The guy and his kids have been to the house already, he is a divorced Italian with three young kids of his own.

She has reverted back to her "midlife crisis" state but that was probably a permenaent feature, I just didn't want to see it. I buried my head in the sand for the entire marriage. I didn't want to loose her at any cost but was never good enough for her and she made me feel I was always in the wrong..even my mom said my self esteem was damaged. 

I am limiting contact now. There is no point in getting into discussions. She messaged me last night to see how the girls were. I tried to be civil but just get one word replies of "thanks". She seems to not be able to separate being friendly to me and having a love interest. Just like before. It will take her relationship to bomb before she turns to me again....I hope I'll be long down the road by then.


----------



## 225985

After all this, all that you wrote, why would you want HER back? Really? 

Sadly, you are still hoping for this and still think it might happen. Until you realize it won't happen, you will NEVER be free of her control. 

It's not that you weren't good enough for her, she was never good enough for you. 

Get your stuff out of the house. Sell the house. In my opinion you are stalling on this because you think she will want you back and you can go home again. 

Stop calling it a MLC. It's not. 

Keep posting Andy.


----------



## 225985

And change your status in your TAM profile.


----------



## Andy101

I guess at the back of my mind I always held some hope that things would change. That she would change. The house is an issue but I have to be careful right now and cut off all her other tactics. She knows that her sleeping with the guy will get to me. And on here I can admit that it does. Afterall, she was my wife and I was very attached to her.

My daughter told me today that the ex met this guy on Tinder. Which explains the timeline from the day the divorce was made final. Too much of a coincidence..she had planned this for a long time. I just didn't realise any of it. Feel so darn stupid now.


----------



## Andy101

Blue..what do I need to change in settings?


----------



## Lostinthought61

So tell me again why you can't move back until the divorce final


----------



## Marc878

HTML:







Andy101 said:


> Yes you guys are right. When you pull up old replies, I can see I was being played all along. I just thought by being nice to her and improving myself she would come round. I even bought her a £400 coat for Christmas because she was cold. Now she wears it to go out with the guy..what a sucker!
> 
> *All you ever done is try and nice her back. You've been told this never works many times for as long as you've been here but you never listen or reason*
> 
> *Last night I went to pick the kids up and she I asked what she was going to see as she had told me she tickets for something...she didn't have tickets...just more lies*. She didn't go out at all it was all a nasty game. Her concern is that I was only having the girls on a saturday night for the past year and she now wants me to have them for the full weekend. As I intially refused out of principle as she kept saying that WE had agreed to this..we hadn't...she dictated what she wanted and I have to roll with it. I don't mind them staying..just not on her terms as like blue said, its just for her sexual
> 
> Doesn't sound like no contact to me. You can't stop
> 
> She wants me to take all my stuff from the attic..which I will do as I need to slowly remove any bargaining tools. I will leave the house til last as it will no doubt send her in a frenzy. The guy and his kids have been to the house already, he is a divorced Italian with three young kids of his own.
> 
> She has reverted back to her "midlife crisis" state but that was probably a permenaent feature, I just didn't want to see it.* I buried my head in the sand for the entire marriage*. I didn't want to loose her at any cost but was never good enough for her and she made me feel I was always in the wrong..even my mom said my self esteem was damaged.
> 
> You still are.
> 
> *I am limiting contact now.* There is no point in getting into discussions. She messaged me last night to see how the girls were. I tried to be civil but just get one word replies of "thanks". She seems to not be able to separate being friendly to me and having a love interest. Just like before. It will take her relationship to bomb before she turns to me again....I hope I'll be long down the road by then.
> 
> Really? For what the 32nd time?


You've been coming here whining for what two years now? You never do anything to move on or help yourself. 

Go back and Reread all your posts. Nothing has changed or is any different than when you first started.

Your wife maybe a bad person but *you* are your worst problem.

You can't/don't fix that you'll just continue to be the victim. Your wife gets a perverse pleasure out of kicking whipped puppys. You just keep rolling over for her.

What is it you want? People to feel sorry for you? Upfront maybe but after this long I think more disgust than anything else.


----------



## Andy101

Marc878...you are correct. I haven't listened. I thought the advice was harsh and that my ex couldn't possibly be that bad. Now I see her prove me wrong on a daily basis. I just loved her..I did everything I could to please her and she repays me like this. I've been such a dxxk. 

The divorce is done so I guess I owe her nothing. The kids are the only thing left in common. I still thought as parents we should have been friendly but she now doesn't even want that. The kids have told me that mom doesn't play with them anymore and is always messaging that guy. Feel bad for them as she always put them first but now she is engrossed in her new interest..I just make sure that I make up for it the best I can.


----------



## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Marc878...you are correct. I haven't listened. I thought the advice was harsh and that my ex couldn't possibly be that bad. Now I see her prove me wrong on a daily basis. I just loved her..I did everything I could to please her and she repays me like this. I've been such a dxxk.
> 
> Take her off the damn pedestal you've had her on. Write good and bad points down on paper and finally wake up to who she is. Being Mr Nice Guy has just gotten you walked on. She treats you as you let her. Wake up to reality for once in your life.
> 
> The divorce is done so I guess I owe her nothing. The kids are the only thing left in common. I still thought as parents we should have been friendly but she now doesn't even want that. The kids have told me that mom doesn't play with them anymore and is always messaging that guy. Feel bad for them as she always put them first but now she is engrossed in her new interest..I just make sure that I make up for it the best I can.
> 
> You can not control what she does. You can only control/fix your end.


You've fought against what everyone else is seeing and the truth for too long. Wake up!!!
It's very disturbing to see you continue to wallow in this ****.

Read "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF download

Do you really want your kids growing up see their dad treated like crap and taking it? Make no mistake your actions affect them. They are smart and see this crap. What in the hell do you think they are thinking?


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## 225985

.


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## Marc878

Andy, you could do this. Many have. 

If you want to have a meaningful and enjoyable life you have to purge the X from it.

Don't use the excuse of having kids together to not have a good 180. It's doable.

Never answer her phone calls direct, any calls, texts, emails not about the kids ignore and delete.

One day at a time. Pickups and drop offs keep to 5 minutes


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## 225985

And no £400 coats.


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## Marc878

Keep in mind as long as YOU keep the X in your life in any capacity she'll adversely affect it. Any future relationships will be affected from your distraction and/or her interference. No other woman will want that in a relationship.

Better get moving. Unless you like where you've been and want to linger in it.


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## phillybeffandswiss

> She has reverted


 No, she didn't. She showed you her true colors and like they say once the genie is out......

Yeah it is your marriage, but lets be honest with each other now. She had every RIGHT to be angry with your porn use. She had every right to divorce you over the issue when you were warned. Let's make one thing absolutely clear SHE is the only one who has held fast to EVERY boundary you have related to us in this thread. Here's the thing, you have noted MULTIPLE partners in her cheating. This is where my problem lies in you saying she reverted back. 

If your child brings home a failing grade, you don't beat them, move them to a new school and hold them back a grade. You work with them. 
Yes, your porn use was awful to her, but the response isn't to go out and have sex with every guy you meet because your husband made you feel inadequate. You work with him or leave.

Mid life was a way to keep you around and it worked.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Blue..what do I need to change in settings?






Xenote said:


> So tell me again why you can't move back until the divorce final




Andy, the divorce was finalized. Change your status in your profile from separated to something else. Divorced. Single. Whatever you prefer.


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## curious234

why are you not going back to your house to live. Tell your wife you have a right and you want to be with your kids. Show wife you have guts which she think you do not have. I think she is seeing someone (confirmed did not read every thing). her accusing you of porn is a lame excuse to end the marriage

I need to consult a lawyer first. I will collect the rest of my stuff from the attic and change my address. I need a clean break. All this feels so surreal. Never thought I would actually seriously start doing this. NO DO THE OPPOSITE MOVE IN SAY YOU DO NOT LIKE MEN AROUND YOUR KIDS. This will irritate as well. You were a fool to move out in the first place


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## Andy101

It still drives me crazy though. She xame to pick the kids up and looked hot. I didn't say anything, just handed over their weekend bag. She asked if they had a good weekend. I said yes fine thanks. Later I wanted to know if they had settled ok for the night. She text saying that they had a good weekend and that I am doing a good job....but it was worded in a way that isn't her normal way if writing...I left it at that as she was online to the other guy. Why can I not just stop thinking about her? Its not healthy anymore.


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## 225985

Andy,

I have been a follower of you since the beginning. We joined TAM same day, in same professional, and both were addicted to women we cannot have. I won't insult you by comparing my story to yours, but I do somewhat understand what you are doing through.

The other posters are right. You will be able to move on once you find another woman. (For me it helped to go no contact or greatly reduced contact since we still work in same place.) You cannot go no contact because of the girls. But you can move on. One day at a time. 

Now that you KNOW, KNOW, KNOW she is playing a game with you, that has got to help, at least logically. You can choose to play, or not. You are not a dog that needs a "good boy" from your ex. Unlike many of the others, I think you need a date or two. Someone over 35 yo. 

You never did tell us your weight and height. We know you lost 4 stone a while back and got slimmer. Are you very fit? Why not? Get fit for YOU. She will notice, but that is not your motive. 

I might be wrong here, so I apologize in advance if I am, since I have no kids, but are you using the kids as an excuse to text your ex? Asking if they are "settled ok for the night"? What kind of reply did you expect? Asking if the kids had a good weekend is ok, as you are asking if they are any problems. Asking if they are in bed is a stretch, unless there is some issue (insomnia, nightmares, etc) that would warrant this question. 

Texting is torture when trying to forget someone. Every text, even from the ***** of an ex wife that you have, gives you a rush. Text ONLY WHEN NECESSARY. Can you do that?

Trying listing what is good about you. This is what I see:

1) Prime age - sought after by woman
2) Physically fit (maybe can do a little better by hitting the gym more)
3) Great profession/career
4) Financially stable
5) Very caring, loving father
6) Great friend

Update and change your hair style and appearance. Ditch the same old cut, ask your barber for something more modern. It boosts confidence. Get some better clothes. Dress sharp, at work, at home, when you pick up the girls. (But don't do it for ex). It made a big difference to how I felt and helped me through my issue.

And your question isn't "Why can I not just stop thinking about her?" It is "Why WON'T I just stop thinking about her?"

I think you know the answer so your friends here will ask the ultimate question:

"Do you want to get back with her or do you hope to get back with her?" If the answer to either of those is Yes or maybe, that is why you won't or can't stop thinking about her.


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## Chuck71

I have not read the last few replies but from what I can see you have tried to buy her love

when you should have been commanding her respect. You must unlearn what you have learned.

She is NOT your W, your partner, your friend, your comrade, she is you ADVERSARY. 

NOTHING will change until YOU decide it to. Now I will be cold blooded....

She jokes about you with her b/f, they spend your kid's money on their needs, desires, 

If she tried to do to POSOM what she did to you, he would tell her to "kiss off"

This is a pattern you MUST break.... you should want respect more than anything. 

Her disagreeing but respecting is a boatload better than her using you as a puppet for her amusement.

Like a drunk admitting s/he is a drunk, that is the first step AND half the battle.

Grow back your balls and start dictating. She don't like it, awww po baybee, see you in court.

Even if you lose on every front, you go down fighting....... BTW that never happens....


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## honcho

blueinbr said:


> Andy,
> 
> I have been a follower of you since the beginning. We joined TAM same day, in same professional, and both were addicted to women we cannot have. I won't insult you by comparing my story to yours, but I do somewhat understand what you are doing through.
> 
> The other posters are right. You will be able to move on once you find another woman. (For me it helped to go no contact or greatly reduced contact since we still work in same place.) You cannot go no contact because of the girls. But you can move on. One day at a time.
> 
> Now that you KNOW, KNOW, KNOW she is playing a game with you, that has got to help, at least logically. You can choose to play, or not. You are not a dog that needs a "good boy" from your ex. Unlike many of the others, I think you need a date or two. Someone over 35 yo.
> 
> You never did tell us your weight and height. We know you lost 4 stone a while back and got slimmer. Are you very fit? Why not? Get fit for YOU. She will notice, but that is not your motive.
> 
> I might be wrong here, so I apologize in advance if I am, since I have no kids, but are you using the kids as an excuse to text your ex? Asking if they are "settled ok for the night"? What kind of reply did you expect? Asking if the kids had a good weekend is ok, as you are asking if they are any problems. Asking if they are in bed is a stretch, unless there is some issue (insomnia, nightmares, etc) that would warrant this question.
> 
> Texting is torture when trying to forget someone. Every text, even from the ***** of an ex wife that you have, gives you a rush. Text ONLY WHEN NECESSARY. Can you do that?
> 
> Trying listing what is good about you. This is what I see:
> 
> 1) Prime age - sought after by woman
> 2) Physically fit (maybe can do a little better by hitting the gym more)
> 3) Great profession/career
> 4) Financially stable
> 5) Very caring, loving father
> 6) Great friend
> 
> Update and change your hair style and appearance. Ditch the same old cut, ask your barber for something more modern. It boosts confidence. Get some better clothes. Dress sharp, at work, at home, when you pick up the girls. (But don't do it for ex). It made a big difference to how I felt and helped me through my issue.
> 
> And your question isn't "Why can I not just stop thinking about her?" It is "Why WON'T I just stop thinking about her?"
> 
> I think you know the answer so your friends here will ask the ultimate question:
> 
> "Do you want to get back with her or do you hope to get back with her?" If the answer to either of those is Yes or maybe, that is why you won't or can't stop thinking about her.


Even if he doesn't realize it the whole texting about the kids was just an excuse to make contact with her. 

While a date or two would give him an ego boost and a temporary boost in self confidence he hasn't even accepted the fact he's divorced yet. He's got to figure out and fix why he's so stuck and get himself confident in himself otherwise he's just going to pick another that will walk all over him.


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## 225985

honcho said:


> Even if he doesn't realize it the whole texting about the kids was just an excuse to make contact with her.
> 
> 
> 
> While a date or two would give him an ego boost and a temporary boost in self confidence he hasn't even accepted the fact he's divorced yet. He's got to figure out and fix why he's so stuck and get himself confident in himself otherwise he's just going to pick another that will walk all over him.




A £400 coat says you are right. I'm trying to get him to change his relationship status in his profile. 

Andy, how about a new thread 

"Moving on from a manipulative ex wife". And im not joking or being sarcastic. 

This is a new chapter in your life. The separation is over.


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## Chuck71

blueinbr said:


> A £400 coat says you are right. I'm trying to get him to change his relationship status in his profile.
> 
> *Andy, how about a new thread *
> 
> "Moving on from a manipulative ex wife". And im not joking or being sarcastic.
> 
> This is a new chapter in your life. The separation is over.


Not a bad idea. Just be careful when you start a new thread.... some people may insinuate 

you are drunk....


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## 225985

Chuck71 said:


> Not a bad idea. Just be careful when you start a new thread.... some people may insinuate
> 
> 
> 
> you are drunk....




She doesn't follow this thread. :-/


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## Diana7

Andy101 said:


> Another vile torrent followed last night. I was told that if I didn't get back in time to collect the kids, she would have no choice but to invite her guy to the house and take the relationship to the next level, sooner than she had hoped. She continued by saying that she wanted to keep her dating on a casual basis but I left her no choice!
> 
> I did make it back and get the girls out of there. I have no idea if that was her plan anyway tonight and she was just emotionally blackmailing me.
> 
> This is a woman I trusted and loved for over a decade. I am struggling to believe that someone could be so cruel to another human being let alone the father of her kids.
> 
> I will contact my accountant and solicitor on Monday regarding protecting my assets. I am worried that if try and sell the house right now, she may go for my money. In a way she exposed her hand so it will give me some time to get my house in order.
> 
> My mental state is my main concern now. She is barely recognisable since the new guy..she looks at me like she wants to kill me...how can she just switch like this?
> Is this a normal pattern of behaviour when someone has a new love interest after divorce?
> 
> She hates me ignoring her and just makes her more demanding and vindictive. I'm not being mr nice guy. I'm just being careful of her games as she really is dangerous.


Good grief she is evil and manipulative.


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## Chuck71

Diana7 said:


> Good grief she is evil and manipulative.


She gets away with what he allows her to. She trained him well. IIRC, he told me back in the summer

his WW came from severe dysfunction. WW is the carbon copy of her mom. She groomed Andy to carbon

her step dad. Andy... you train people how to treat you. If you showed her by action, you will not 

tolerate any type of BS.... would she have still cheated? I don't know, no one does.

BUT... she might have tried to jerk your chains a couple times just to test you. Confident Andy 

would have not put up with any of that. Your thread is almost a year old.... nothing has changed

for you positively (except D final).


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