# WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see



## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

*WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see*

Can someone explain this? Are there specific things that are typically said or done that are not real?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Need a little more meat on the bones of your question.

A WAW usually makes the decision that the relationship is over, long, long, before she actually leaves. 

There is a staging period. This is generally believed to be the time where she is planning, saving to maintain her lifestyle once she actually does tell you that she's leaving.

The term came into vogue with the belief (rightly or wrongly) that the guy usually feels blind-sided, didn't see it coming, and by his account, the relationship although likely having it's issues, was neither abusive nor horrible.

There is no 'working things out' with a walk away. They are done. It's over, even if they remain in the relationship for a time, they have no need or desire to invest themselves in the relationship they are abandoning.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I think I know what you are asking. My wife walked about 15 years ago. I had no clue for the first 11, then I started working on our disconnect and figured out she checked out YEARS ago. 

Deejo is right. The men have no clue it has happened usually. So yeah, I went through over a decade of living something...false. It was a lie.

Even now she doesn't openly admit she's gone. So again, odd. I don't believe what she says because she speaks as though she is a wife committed to the marriage. She is not. So yes, her life, my life is all a lie right now. 

I can't explain it. The girls will need to tell us how that works.

I got into trouble in another WAW thread talking about their (women's) f'd up little minds. Over the top maybe, but...I mean, who does this?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Sorry. Double post


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I thought it usually referred to someone who is having an affair. Whether you know about the affair or not when she asks for a separation, it will be revealed at some point...and then you'll realize that none of the reasons she stated for wanting a S were true.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I thought it usually referred to someone who is having an affair. Whether you know about the affair or not when she asks for a separation, it will be revealed at some point...and then you'll realize that none of the reasons she stated for wanting a S were true.


It seems that the prevailing belief is that there's no other reason a wife could possibly want to leave so she must be having an affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I've seen this happen in two instances. In both cases there was no other man. They were just done being married. One was a good friend whose wife just randomly decided she didn't love him anymore. He went through hell, she literally felt nothing for him, no emotion at all. It was impossible to get her back because he became invisible to her, even though they lived in the same house. 

The other was a case of an older guy I work with. One of his wife's best friends became a widow. His wife started spending more and more time with her. He tried to offer things like trips and other outings but nothing worked. Eventually she asked for a divorce and moved in with the friend. She wouldn't admit it to him but he generally felt that she wanted to grow old with her friend instead of him. Really messed up. He is dating again at 57 though, so he seems to have bounced back.

But I digress...as far as TAM definitions are concerned wayward wives (WW) are the ones that shouldn't be believed. Walk away wives for the most part have just decided they no longer want to be married. They aren't necessarily hiding anything.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Deejo said:


> Need a little more meat on the bones of your question.
> 
> A WAW usually makes the decision that the relationship is over, long, long, before she actually leaves.
> 
> ...


This was my situation exactly..


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



MrK said:


> I think I know what you are asking. My wife walked about 15 years ago. I had no clue for the first 11, then I started working on our disconnect and figured out she checked out YEARS ago.
> 
> Deejo is right. The men have no clue it has happened usually. So yeah, I went through over a decade of living something...false. It was a lie.
> 
> ...



Sorry about your sitch Mr. But so are you guys still married and in the same house then ?
How's it been going , any hope of turning things round ?
My x left , our next turn was so close though , insane really as we could've turned .
Think l'm one of the lucky ones in a way because l knew we'd been in big trouble for a couple of yrs.
l didn't expect what happened though . ps , although stupidly though because l became way too close to someone and l think that was the main thing that made it a done deal.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I walked away because I was tired of being with someone who didn't want to work on the marriage.When I finally left he actually said to me "where is this coming from? I thought we were doing really great for the past year."
Really man?? That's just bc I stopped caring about where you were and stopped caring that you were living a separate life that didn't include me and only had time for me when you became horny.

Walk away wife here and I didn't have anyone waiting for me. I lived alone in an apartment for a very long time before finding someone new.

Looking back I wish I had done the staging period of saving and preparing.I knew I was done and told him I was done after he refused to attend counseling.Later when I got to "the straw" moment where I knew I had to leave or go insane I had no plan.I just walked out and found an apartment then moved.

He never listened til I left and then it was too late.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



ScarletBegonias said:


> I walked away because I was tired of being with someone who didn't want to work on the marriage.When I finally left he actually said to me "where is this coming from? I thought we were doing really great for the past year."
> Really man?? That's just bc I stopped caring about where you were and stopped caring that you were living a separate life that didn't include me and only had time for me when you became horny.
> 
> Walk away wife here and I didn't have anyone waiting for me. I lived alone in an apartment for a very long time before finding someone new.
> ...


Having nearly been a WAW myself, I can only think WAW needs to be replaced with DAM, Deaf Ass Men...who don't listen, won't hear and refuse to acknowledge a problem!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Anon Pink said:


> Having nearly been a WAW myself, I can only think WAW needs to be replaced with DAM, Deaf Ass Men...who don't listen, won't hear and refuse to acknowledge a problem!


:iagree:

It is infuriating when everyone assumes a woman walked away bc she had a piece waiting on the side.

So,I'm not a WAW.My ex was a DAM. LOL


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

DAM only notice when there is no sex or you walk out. Everything else is useless nagging to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

techmom said:


> DAM only notice when there is no sex or you walk out. Everything else is useless nagging to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The irony there is that if the sex stops it's a catastrophe and, at least according to TAM, he must man up and demand the sex he deserves and if he doesn't get it she's having an affair. Either that or he must cut off her money in retaliation; this one is especially good because it assumes that he is actually making all of the money and if he is it really belongs to him. If you walk out he had no idea so you must be having an affair, so he must now conduct surveillance. Apparently there's no way to win, unless you walk out well before you actually disconnect and still might be open to some feeble efforts, because if you aren't open to his too little too late efforts to "fix" things you must have someone else. Of course he wasn't interested in this fix when it only involved his wife's happiness, it only mattered when his wants were on the line. Thus it means little to us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



lifeistooshort said:


> The irony there is that if the sex stops it's a catastrophe and, at least according to TAM, he must man up and demand the sex he deserves and if he doesn't get it she's having an affair. Either that or he must cut off her money in retaliation; this one is especially good because it assumes that he is actually making all of the money and if he is it really belongs to him. If you walk out he had no idea so you must be having an affair, so he must now conduct surveillance. Apparently there's no way to win, unless you walk out well before you actually disconnect and still might be open to some feeble efforts, because if you aren't open to his too little too late efforts to "fix" things you must have someone else. Of course he wasn't interested in this fix when it only involved his wife's happiness, it only mattered when his wants were on the line. Thus it means little to us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:iagree:

And that about sums it up! 

Class dismissed...


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Mo42, starting to understand the "Do not believe any of what you hear them say" part of that statement?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Anon Pink said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And that about sums it up!
> 
> Class dismissed...


Absolutely. 

Because no woman has ever been unclear in communicating her needs, or been unsure of what she actually needed. 

No woman ever, upon not getting the response she wanted, keeps pounding away using the same language and style – rather, she changes her approach to see if she can use another manner of communication to effect the change. 

Of course, no woman ever suffers in silence, not telling her husband what the real issue is. 

Men just refuse to listen and don't care about their wife's needs.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Applause sound effect - YouTube

Edit: I don't know for sure if I've read this correctly, but I'm thinking that many of these women are saying there is always a small EA going on. Especially when there is a point where they decide to end the relationship. In some cases, it becomes a PA. That point is when they find that next person who they believe will provide them with what they are searching for. Something to consider for sure. Don't you think?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Because no woman has ever been unclear in communicating her needs, or been unsure of what she actually needed.
> 
> ...




Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The post was aimed at women that do in fact communicate their needs, only to be met with indifference. What you call unclear often translates to a hb that's not particularly interested until he stands to lose, usually either sex or the marriage itself. If his basic needs are being met he's not concerned with anything else. If you want to simply dismiss the whole post because their are some women that suffer in silence then ignore it. Just don't complain if you find yourself in that position. There seems to be a prevailing attitude on this forum that these women labeled waw's never have a good reason and there's always someone else. If that's how you want to see it then keep your head in the sand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



lifeistooshort said:


> The irony there is that if the sex stops it's a catastrophe and, at least according to TAM, he must man up and demand the sex he deserves and if he doesn't get it she's having an affair.


Oversimplified. 

When sex ends in a marriage most men assume it is them and they just don't understand that the wife has completely disconnected. In my case an affair did take place but that is not necessarily the case. When the wife disconnects, the requests, badgering, nagging however you want to phrase it stops. We assume that when it stops things must be OK. It is a common mistake by men because we tend to be non-confrontational with our wives if we love them. We happily go on our way unaware that she is gone until it's too late.

As far as demanding sex as "our right", that is often misunderstood or poorly executed. After our R was complete a LD/HD relationship again surfaced. We made all the same mistakes we did before the crisis. Until I made it clear to her that it was part of what I required in the marriage, just as she required quality time with me and my support of her when things weren't going well. Both have to give what the other seeks. If the sex continued to be rationed then sooner or later I would be less inclined to meet her needs. This is commonly what happens. I've posted the conversation several times here but in short I demanded a 60 day period where she would submit to me when I wanted it. I apologized to her if it made her uncomfortable but I told her "I refuse to apologize for desiring my wife." Deer in the headlights moment. We got into a good pattern and our bonding strengthened. 

For us it is about stating what is important to us, why its important and following through. Not pushing a vacuum around, whimpering like a puppy or being a d1ck to get sex.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



lifeistooshort said:


> Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The post was aimed at women that do in fact communicate their needs, only to be met with indifference. What you call unclear often translates to a hb that's not particularly interested until he stands to lose, usually either sex or the marriage itself. If his basic needs are being met he's not concerned with anything else. If you want to simply dismiss the whole post because their are some women that suffer in silence then ignore it. Just don't complain if you find yourself in that position. There seems to be a prevailing attitude on this forum that these women labeled waw's never have a good reason and there's always someone else. If that's how you want to see it then keep your head in the sand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Who said anything about dismissing the whole post or group of posts? I was just noting that it is not always so simple. Unfortunately, those posts never acknowledged that. All blame was placed on the men. Not just blame, but intent - these men intentionally ignored their wife's complaints.

Sometimes, it is just ignorance by both parties. The wife complains that she is not appreciated. He tries stepping things up, but his giving more gifts does not work for a woman who is seeking words of affirmation. She says he is not listening, he wonders what she really wants.

Sometimes it is the man refusing to listen. Sometimes the woman is being unreasonable. And sometimes it is unintentional mistakes by both sides.

Edit - I would also add I doubt very seriously any woman walks away while thinking they are being unreasonable or wrong. I am certain that each one thought they were justified and that it was the husbands fault. That does not make their thinking automatically correct.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Amplexor said:


> Oversimplified.
> 
> When sex ends in a marriage most men assume it is them and they just don't understand that the wife has completely disconnected. In my case an affair did take place but that is not necessarily the case. When the wife disconnects, the requests, badgering, nagging however you want to phrase it stops. We assume that when it stops things must be OK. It is a common mistake by men because we tend to be non-confrontational with our wives if we love them. We happily go on our way unaware that she is gone until it's too late.
> 
> ...


Just awesome.... I have needs, I need your help to meet those needs, our relationship depends on both our needs being met. Simple, elegant ..wonder why it never seems to happen that way?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Almost sounds like a wife is there to serve, in that explanation. When she doesn't know what is needed, she gets confused and thinks she isn't wanted or desired. Someone else must be there meeting those needs. So, it's the beginning of the end. Hmmmm......??


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I consider myself a walk away wife. I tried to fix our marriage, I tried to look the other way whenever he texted numerous "just friends". I rug swept a lot of issues because whenever I tried to talk about our problems he would shut down and accuse me of nagging.
In the end, I was becoming something I did not like. I was becoming suspicious of my own shadow, I was acting crazy, insecure, insane. There was emotional abuse, he withheld sex, I have own my mistakes. He never did. 
I finally left when I realized I was so starved for physical contact I developed a crush on a 26 yo kid, which made me sick to my stomach.
I knew I had to get away.
He still thought I blindsided him. But he now agrees, I made the right decision because he was not happy with our marriage either.

Too bad I did not prepare financially.
I live with relatives, I don't have a job, but I am working on what little is left of my self esteem.
I do not blame him because I could have left a long time ago. But I was stubborn trying 
to keep being married.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



> I tried to look the other way whenever he texted numerous "just friends".


Wondering what happened that caused him to "start" texting other women? Was it from his past life experience or something within the current relationship?

Edit: Nevermind. Too much to rehash there. Just some thoughts going off topic. Sorry.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I go back to 2006-2008. During that time, he engaged in a EA with a coworker (very strong possibility of PA). I didn't even know what EA was, his father was dying of cancer and I took care of him so everything was pretty busy, hectic, and because of all the stress I forgave him.

The truth is we were probably done since 08, he detached from me. He just never admitted to being unhappy. We were too invested in our time together to realize we were done. I think he felt he had to stay with me for taking care of his dad, but he always resented me for "stealing his youth"

Regardless, he is free now and so am I.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Because no woman has ever been unclear in communicating her needs, or been unsure of what she actually needed.
> 
> ...


Can't speak for other ladies who left but I know I tried every thing. I read books,I took seminars on learning to communicate in marriage,I attended counseling individually and tried to get him to attend with a marriage counselor.One thing he always said he loved about me:there was never a guessing game.I always said how I felt and communicated what I needed.

There was no silence here and there was no failure to adjust my expression to help him understand.He simply didn't listen and didn't care enough to work on the marriage with me.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



ScarletBegonias said:


> There was no silence here and there was no failure to adjust my expression to help him understand.He simply didn't listen and didn't care enough to work on the marriage with me.


That is good to hear. I just don't believe that every woman communicates as clearly as they think they do. I object to the idea that it is a man problem as much as I object to the idea that it is a woman problem. It is a human problem.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> That is good to hear. I just don't believe that every woman communicates as clearly as they think they do. I object to the idea that it is a man problem as much as I object to the idea that it is a woman problem. It is a human problem.


I don't believe that either.I'd use my mother as exhibit A when it comes to poor communicators thinking they're spectacular at communicating.

I'd venture to say most people aren't great communicators when it comes to matters of the heart.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I think.... this conversation will never work. This thread I mean.

It looks like the WW are talking to guys who've been burned by WW's. There can be no consensus considering the positions. 

Just like everything else, answers will vary. SOME WW's check out long before they leave....which doesn't mean they leave for someone else. SOME check out long before they leave and then meet someone else who makes leaving seem like a good idea. SOME WW's try for YEARS to get their feelings/ideas/needs heard, SOME stay silent and think H should know. Some jump through hoops TRYING to make this work, to no avail. SOME try to get help through counseling (with or without the H).... there is no one definition which may be a "Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars" issue. 

You really can't generalize on this one, because it's all about the individual personalities, responsibilities, and dynamics of each relationship. 

I think the left-behind-husbands can only see it through their experience. Some of them know WHY she left, and how it all came about... some of them surmise how it happened. And some will just always think there MUST have been someone else in the wings.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Sure, some WAW's are Satan in a skirt. Some have another guy waiting in the wings. Some were never able to clearly communicate what they needed so their husband stood a reasonable chance of meeting those needs. Some have been trying to tell their clueless husband what they needed, with no perceptible response, for years. Some were married to men who simply didn't believe their wives needs were legitimate and deserving of notice. 

And some just got to a point where they knew that anymore of this would end up killing them and that the absolute best thing that could happen for everyone involved would be to simply, calmly, politely, and with careful forethought - walk away.

Forgive me, but don't most men who "walk-away" do it for the same reasons?


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



2ntnuf said:


> Applause sound effect - YouTube
> 
> Edit: I don't know for sure if I've read this correctly, but I'm thinking that many of these women are saying there is always a small EA going on. Especially when there is a point where they decide to end the relationship. In some cases, it becomes a PA. That point is when they find that next person who they believe will provide them with what they are searching for. Something to consider for sure. Don't you think?


Oh, I don't doubt that there are a lot of woman out there that have had their husband drop the ball and they walked away before being unfaithful.

I just don't think what actually happened is as clear-cut as they're describing it.

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: Everyone is like this, to a degree. We're all the heroes of our own stories, so we usually paint ourselves in the best light possible.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



ScarletBegonias said:


> I don't believe that either.I'd use my mother as exhibit A when it comes to poor communicators thinking they're spectacular at communicating.


About a year or so ago, I had a discussion with another poster. She was complaining about how men don't listen, and used her friend as an example. The husband complained about their sex life, and the friend stated that they would have more sex if she was not so tired. The poster complained that the husband never listened.

But when I asked more about it, that was not the case. The husband did more chores and more things around the house to help out. But that was not listening, because the wife meant tired as in she needed more sleep. I asked if the wife had clarified, and never got an answer. I also never got an acknowledgement that maybe this was about both sides not communicating rather than the husband being a bad guy and not listening.

I use this real example as a cautionary tale for everyone (men and women) that your "clear" communication may in fact not be. It also illustrates that merely saying the same thing over and over is not necessarily communicating.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> That is good to hear. I just don't believe that every woman communicates as clearly as they think they do. I object to the idea that it is a man problem as much as I object to the idea that it is a woman problem. It is a human problem.


That's fine. Don't call it Walk Away Wife then. Call it Walk Away Person since plenty of men do it as well. There's a thread here right now that is 6 pages long filled with men who are only sticking around for the kids. They have checked out of marriage and intend to spring divorce on their wives once the kids are older. Walking away isn't gender specific whatsoever.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

As I said in my previous post, the term was borne out the belief that nothing was fundamentally flawed in the marriage. Don't know who coined the term, not that it matters.

We tend to lump stuff around here ... quite a little bit.

My reading about walk aways framed the characteristics of wives who from their perspective had given all of themselves to their husband, children, family ... and then come to realize they gave nothing to themselves, and when evaluating what they want and need, the marriage, or the husband, isn't on the list.

May be independence, may be a mid-life crisis, may be an affair, may be boredom and self-loathing. May be simply at the time they signed up, they had no idea what they were in for and never asked the question ... they just dutifully did what they agreed to do. That isn't such a bad thing either ... until the day comes when your partner, (man or woman) changes their mind.

Doesn't really matter does it?

As for a guy that wakes up one day to hear his wife is leaving, and he didn't have a clue? In my mind that is a man who wasn't paying all that much attention in the first place.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Deejo said:


> As I said in my previous post, the term was borne out the belief that nothing was fundamentally flawed in the marriage. Don't know who coined the term, not that it matters.
> 
> We tend to lump stuff around here ... quite a little bit.
> 
> ...


You always say things so eloquently. I think the term is pretty insulting really, to both sexes. It assumes that the person leaving is uncommitted, looking for something better or has found someone else. The person leaving is the one who gave all they had to give, communicated their needs, still isn't listened to or heard, realizes that things will never change and decides they are worth more than this. 

The problem is that people want to assign blame to the person who leaves. It's maddening really. What about the person who is gobsmacked when their partner leaves? Really? So you are shocked that your spouse after hundreds if not thousands of conversations of being unhappy in the marriage suddenly bails? Exactly how checked out are those people and why are they the "victims"?

**Edit: I am NOT talking about affairs. That's entirely different because it involves deception, lying, sneaking around, etc. I am referring to a spouse who leaves after exhausting their efforts trying to get their needs met and the other who thinks this is "all of a sudden". **


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I have never seen the term WAW used merely to refer to a woman who was the first to file for divorce. In every instance that I have seen it used, it describes a woman who checked out of the marriage and had no apparent interest in repairing it.

Are there women who ceaselessly ask for counseling and buy relationships books and ask their husbands to meet their needs, only to be ignored? Yes. And I haven't seen the term WAW applied to those women.

Are there also women who hide their feelings, have affairs, and when their husbands finally become aware of their feelings, have no interest in counseling, or any other work on the marriage? Yes. And those are the women I've seen referred to as WAWs.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



PHTlump said:


> I have never seen the term WAW used merely to refer to a woman who was the first to file for divorce. In every instance that I have seen it used, it describes a woman who checked out of the marriage and had no apparent interest in repairing it.


Exactly. She has checked out of her marriage and has no interest in repairing it so she is labeled a WAW. There is never any mention of the husband who ignored her and didn't listen/care when she said what she needed. Oddly, it's when she leaves that he suddenly becomes interested in listening and not ignoring her. Some people just reach their limit and once that threshold is reached there is no turning back. Can you blame them?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



PHTlump said:


> I have never seen the term WAW used merely to refer to a woman who was the first to file for divorce. In every instance that I have seen it used, it describes a woman who checked out of the marriage and had no apparent interest in repairing it.
> 
> Are there women who ceaselessly ask for counseling and buy relationships books and ask their husbands to meet their needs, only to be ignored? Yes. And I haven't seen the term WAW applied to those women.
> 
> Are there also women who hide their feelings, have affairs, and when their husbands finally become aware of their feelings, have no interest in counseling, or any other work on the marriage? Yes. And those are the women I've seen referred to as WAWs.


I just think it depends upon whom is framing the story PHT. My ex and I could respectively tell our stories and depending upon who you listened to, it would be easy to presume the other was a SOB.

If a man or woman wasn't dialed in, responsive and engaged in their marriage, (sexless, not meeting needs) they aren't going to point that out when talking about their spouse of 20 years walking out on them.

At least not until we've roughed them up a little bit.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Deejo said:


> I just think it depends upon whom is framing the story PHT. My ex and I could respectively tell our stories and depending upon who you listened to, it would be easy to presume the other was a SOB.
> 
> If a man or woman wasn't dialed in, responsive and engaged in their marriage, (sexless, not meeting needs) they aren't going to point that out when talking about their spouse of 20 years walking out on them.
> 
> At least not until we've roughed them up a little bit.


40th birthday:

Him: Hey, what do you want to do for your birthday?
Me: Let's go to Vegas!
Him: Okay, I've never been, sounds like fun.
Me: Awesome. Gosh I'm excited. You'll arrange it? 
Him: Yes. 
Me: Won't it be fun to get away, just the two of us?
Him: Totally, can't wait. 

Birthday rolls around and he tells me he bought us tickets to fly back to San Diego with our kids to visit his parents. "We haven't seen them in a while. It'll be so much fun". He spent 3 days golfing with his Dad and our kids while I spent 3 days at the kitchen table at his parents house listening to his Mom moan about the remodel and her health.

41st birthday 

Him: Hey, what do you want for your birthday?
Me: Hmmm, let me think about it. 
Me a few days later: Okay, I put some things on my wish list on Amazon and Etsy. Just pick one, I love them all equally.
Him: Okay.

Birthday rolls around and he bought me a pair of cheap earrings from Target. Me: What happened to my list? Him: I didn't think you were serious about those things. 4 days later half of the left earring breaks off and falls in the toilet. It's a metaphor, that's for sure. 

42nd birthday

Him: What do you want for your birthday?
Me: Don't [email protected] bother.

If I left, there is no doubt he would come here and say how could she leave? I took her on trips and bought her jewelry!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> 40th birthday:
> 
> Him: Hey, what do you want to do for your birthday?
> Me: Let's go to Vegas!
> ...


Cannot like this post enough!


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> The problem is that people want to assign blame to the person who leaves. It's maddening really. What about the person who is gobsmacked when their partner leaves? Really? So you are shocked that your spouse after hundreds if not thousands of conversations of being unhappy in the marriage suddenly bails? Exactly how checked out are those people and why are they the "victims"?


Isn't the real problem assuming it can only be one way or the other? That if a woman walks, it can only be after her husband ignored the hundreds if not thousands of pleas for working on the marriage, because no woman ever buries resentment or does not communicate clearly? Or that the woman never said a single thing and then just up and walks, because no man ever ignores fails to listen?


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Isn't the real problem assuming it can only be one way or the other? That if a woman walks, it can only be after her husband ignored the hundreds if not thousands of pleas for working on the marriage, because no woman ever buries resentment or does not communicate clearly? Or that the woman never said a single thing and then just up and walks, because no man ever ignores fails to listen?


I specifically mentioned after she has said what her needs are. Not muttered under her breath or assumed he could read her mind. If after she has said countless times and he still ignores it, is she a walk away wife because he is shocked by the outcome?


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> 40th birthday: <husband made no effort>
> 
> 41st birthday: <husband made no effort>
> 
> ...


Gifts should show admiration of the recipient. Thoughtless gifts show indifference. I did this one time about 20 yrs ago ... will never happen again.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> I specifically mentioned after she has said what her needs are. Not muttered under her breath or assumed he could read her mind. If after she has said countless times and he still ignores it, is she a walk away wife because he is shocked by the outcome?


I have no idea. Did she keep saying the same thing over and over? Did she consider that her form of communication may have in fact not been as clear as she thought and rephrased things? Did she listen to what we was saying?

My issue is not that there are not examples like you give (including those from your own life). There very clearly are and I have great sympathy for the people who have a spouse who ignore them. I am sorry that you have had to go through that.

But your post does not merely state after she communicates her needs, but strongly applies that no women walks until she has repeatedly communicated her needs. Thus, my issue is your (and others) apparent unwillingness to admit that not all women who are labelled as "walk away" are victims. Some in fact are unreasonable, or unwilling or able to define and communicate their needs. I don't find those women (or men) to be victims. 

I also note that I believe there are cases where both parties try but are unable to effectively communicate. They are trying, but for what ever reason one is not effectively communicating and the other is not hearing correctly. That does not make one a walk away spouse and the other one who refuses to listen.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> I have no idea. Did she keep saying the same thing over and over? Did she consider that her form of communication may have in fact not been as clear as she thought and rephrased things? Did she listen to what we was saying?
> 
> My issue is not that there are not examples like you give (including those from your own life). There very clearly are and I have great sympathy for the people who have a spouse who ignore them. I am sorry that you have had to go through that.
> 
> ...


I never said WAW's are victims only that who they walked away from are not victims as they portray here. Again, I am not talking about women who cheated and left for somebody else. I am talking about those who stuck around, communicated their needs repeatedly, didn't get them met and decided enough is enough.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> I never said WAW's are victims only that who they walked away from are not victims as they portray here. Again, I am not talking about women who cheated and left for somebody else. I am talking about those who stuck around, communicated their needs repeatedly, didn't get them met and decided enough is enough.


Again, you are unwilling to even consider that not all women do in fact stick around to try and communicate their needs repeatedly. Your posts repeatedly assume this is always the case. I disagree, and think we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Again, you are unwilling to even consider that not all women do in fact stick around to try and communicate their needs repeatedly. Your posts repeatedly assume this is always the case. I disagree, and think we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.


They left out the concept of selfish and evil entitled women ( just like there are men ), who do not care and fit the Michell Langley ( women's infidelity ) mold to a tee.

These people will do their affairs out of lust and lack of consideration for their spouse ( who as little more than a prop ), turn around blame towards the BS, also will even start to detest the BS and become increasingly more abusive and even violent.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Again, you are unwilling to even consider that not all women do in fact stick around to try and communicate their needs repeatedly. Your posts repeatedly assume this is always the case. I disagree, and think we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.


I think we agree more than we disagree. I am NOT talking about a woman who holds things in, mutters under her breath or is passive aggressive. I am talking about the woman who states what she wants repeatedly and is ignored. She finally says enough and leaves. Do we at least agree on that? BTW, the same goes for a man. I in no way suggest this is gender specific. There are plenty of men who state what they want, don't get their needs met and check out. 

Gah, my wording is off. I hope you don't think I think this is a women vs. men issue. It isn't. Both are capable of horrible things. What I am specifically talking about is ONLY those who communicate their needs over and over. Those spouses can hardly claim ignorance when their loved one leaves.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think we agree more than we disagree. I am NOT talking about a woman who holds things in, mutters under her breath or is passive aggressive. I am talking about the woman who states what she wants repeatedly and is ignored. She finally says enough and leaves. Do we at least agree on that? BTW, the same goes for a man. I in no way suggest this is gender specific. There are plenty of men who state what they want, don't get their needs met and check out.
> 
> Gah, my wording is off. I hope you don't think I think this is a women vs. men issue. It isn't. Both are capable of horrible things. What I am specifically talking about is ONLY those who communicate their needs over and over. Those spouses can hardly claim ignorance when their loved one leaves.


If what they want is a reasonble need, then no that is not a problem. We give someone the opportunity to address something they may be overlooking, but when they show us even simple and normal needs are beneath them, eventually youll get tired and leave.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



treyvion said:


> If what they want is a reasonble need, then no that is not a problem. We give someone the opportunity to address something they may be overlooking, but when they show us even simple and normal needs are beneath them, eventually youll get tired and leave.


Who defines what a "reasonable need" is? Don't we see countless posts here about men who want sex twice a week and their wives want it once a month and the wives are deemed horrible people? What about myself who wanted a weekend away for my 40th birthday with my husband sans kids. Was that reasonable? Who defines it?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Who defines what a "reasonable need" is? Don't we see countless posts here about men who want sex twice a week and their wives want it once a month and the wives are deemed horrible people? What about myself who wanted a weekend away for my 40th birthday with my husband sans kids. Was that reasonable? Who defines it?


Your need was reasonable.

A reasonble sex rate if it's not extraordinary would be in between the LD and HD's requirement.

2 times a week is not much at all when you like sex.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Well, I THINK we've addressed the title of the thread. Whether it is WAW or WAH, the quote "do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you..." really doesn't apply. 

Seems to me, that quote applies to cheaters. And it's probably moot to the WAW's and WAH's because for whatever reason, they are either not talking or not being listened to.

Right?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



treyvion said:


> Your need was reasonable.
> 
> A reasonble sex rate if it's not extraordinary would be in between the LD and HD's requirement.
> 
> 2 times a week is not much at all when you like sex.


What about those who don't like sex with their spouse. Is two times a week normal? Don't get me started on why a spouse doesn't want sex with their spouse.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> What about those who don't like sex with their spouse. Is two times a week normal? Don't get me started on why a spouse doesn't want sex with their spouse.


Maybe they don't want sex with their spouse because they don't like them? Maybe the spouse treats them like garbage and sex feels almost like rape?


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

*WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what...*

Sometimes there just isn't anything more to say, it's just time to leave. 

I understand that communication is key but I do not think I'm alone in that sometimes it's not about communication. 

It's about realization, that your spouse is not who you want to be with the rest of your life. It's about taking a look at who the person you married is or has become. Reflecting on their actions and behaviors and deciding that although you may have made excuses for them in the past - you are no longer willing to do so. 

I don't want to have to communicate to someone or threaten divorce in order to be treated with respect and to have mine and our children's well being considered by my spouse. If the person I married is not doing that without being told - there's nothing more to say.

Signed - WAW


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what...*



coffee4me said:


> Sometimes there just isn't anything more to say, it's just time to leave.
> 
> I understand that communication is key but I do not think I'm alone in that sometimes it's not about communication.
> 
> ...


Well the actions said it all. We can ask "are you sure this is how you want to be?".


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

*WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what...*



treyvion said:


> Well the actions said it all. We can ask "are you sure this is how you want to be?".


The answer would have been No, he wanted to be a better person but his actions never quite aligned with that thought.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what...*



coffee4me said:


> The answer would have been No, he wanted to be a better person but his actions never quite aligned with that thought.


It wouldn't happen overnight, but if you could see the glaring deficiencies were never addressed. Consider it being swept under the rug and told what you need to hear.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

*WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what...*



treyvion said:


> It wouldn't happen overnight, but if you could see the glaring deficiencies were never addressed. Consider it being swept under the rug and told what you need to hear.


Ya. He swept , I swept our house was pretty clean . We were together a very long time and I don't doubt his heart was in the right place but at the end of the day he couldn't change and I couldn't accept who he was. Lots of wasted years in that rug swept house. Both our faults for not confronting it sooner.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what...*



coffee4me said:


> Ya. He swept , I swept our house was pretty clean . We were together a very long time and I don't doubt his heart was in the right place but at the end of the day he couldn't change and I couldn't accept who he was. Lots of wasted years in that rug swept house. Both our faults for not confronting it sooner.


He was in his comfort zone. His comfort zone was not good for you and something had to be done. Sorry it took so long.

I hope there was a resounding increase in your life after getting past it.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

*WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what...*



treyvion said:


> He was in his comfort zone. His comfort zone was not good for you and something had to be done. Sorry it took so long.
> 
> I hope there was a resounding increase in your life after getting past it.


Thank You


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Don't get me started on why a spouse doesn't want sex with their spouse.


I would like your thoughts on this, if you don't mind.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I've never met a woman in my lifetime who doesn't want to [email protected] a good looking guy. Husbands often let themselves go. Wife doesn't want sex because she is "tired" or whatever. If a male model showed up she would manage to get her energy back....within seconds.
> 
> That said, my husband is hot as fire and guess what? I still want to [email protected] him.


What if they are really gay or just cheating on them so there is no point?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Or maybe they are simply horrible in bed and women don't bother with that. Bad sex isn't worth their time.


I never said I wasn't considered good looking. But it seems to me the trend is people who get built up to be conceited tend to be bad in bed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



treyvion said:


> I never said I wasn't considered good looking. But it seems to me the trend is people who get built up to be conceited tend to be bad in bed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not in my experience. The best looking people were also the best in bed. They had a legacy to uphold.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I don't know.... H's with a belly, may not be the hottest. But MY H... is the hottest man I know, including his belly.... because he brings soooooooooooooo much more to the party!

ETA: He brings desire, and happiness, and horniness, and laughter, and love, and compliments, and SKILL, and...and... and... the list is endless. I wouldn't trade him for anything!


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

I think a lot of men are afraid when their libido decreases and thus begin blaming their wives.
My ex is super hot (at least in my eyes) I never had wanting to **** him, he had a problem with wanting me.

Bleh... enough of my pity party. So he didn't want to have sex with me! maybe some other man will.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



2galsmom said:


> Odd that this topic FINALLY came up while I was reading TAM.
> 
> MEN LET THEMSELVES GO IS RIGHT!
> 
> ...


It isn't odd at all. Plenty of men here talk about a wife who doesn't put out. They also moan that their wife is ugly, fat, horrible, etc. Water reaches its own level. There is no way you are going to tell me you are some ripped guy with a fat ass wife. It doesn't happen.........ever. 

Apparently TAM has the highest concentration of Mr. Universe and Mrs. Fat Ass on Earth. Totally believable.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

There is a man here who claims to be a marathon runner while his wife is 350 lbs. Of course when questioned, he fumbled. He has "15% body fat" while his wife is Fat Bastard? Yeah, no. My husband called him out in epic fashion. The guy claimed he ran a marathon a weekend. My husband runs marathons and no, it isn't once a weekend let alone once a month. Nobody runs a marathon a week............NOBODY. Dude is still here claiming to be who he pathetically is and the buttholes who hate women still lap it up calling his wife a blob and what not. They simply cannot help it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



ne9907 said:


> I think a lot of men are afraid when their libido decreases and thus begin blaming their wives.
> My ex is super hot (at least in my eyes) I never had wanting to **** him, he had a problem with wanting me.
> 
> Bleh... enough of my pity party. So he didn't want to have sex with me! maybe some other man will.


I will say this...

If you are dealing with a "hen pecked" situation, or a "battle-axe", or someone who always is making a grocery list of reasons the complain, it will kill your sex drive and libido down with it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Not in my experience. The best looking people were also the best in bed. They had a legacy to uphold.


Ask alot of the men. Many will say that one that's not as pretty in the face with a good body will be better than one who is exceptionally pretty in the face. The stereotypical reason is because they have to be better.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



treyvion said:


> I will say this...
> 
> If you are dealing with a "hen pecked" situation, or a "battle-axe", or someone who always is making a grocery list of reasons the complain, it will kill your sex drive and libido down with it.


Interesting thought, I will keep that in mind for whenever I start dating again.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



ne9907 said:


> Interesting thought, I will keep that in mind for whenever I start dating again.


A man loves a woman who massages his ego and supports his masculinity. Beyond some fitness tests, he prefers a woman likes to see him as a strong masculine man, and doesn't attack it.

The "man eater" attacks work against someone who cares what you think.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Because no woman has ever been unclear in communicating her needs, or been unsure of what she actually needed.
> 
> ...



Yep , they can be just as bad , mine was, never heard a thing.
Thats why it's often them to scratching their heads after being left and screwed around on .
lt's about the couple , the persons involved , not the guys , not the girls . Neither is any better , just different sitches, people .


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> That is good to hear. I just don't believe that every woman communicates as clearly as they think they do. I object to the idea that it is a man problem as much as I object to the idea that it is a woman problem. It is a human problem.


Exactly . Women can just claim this claim that and it's never questioned , just assumed all men are dumb smucks.
But l've seen that many dumb smuck women to in marriages and l've often pitied their hubbys. And wondered why the fk he is slaving away and jumping through hoops for that , ot how the hell he even sleeps in the same bed yet, she's clueless.
The sorta stuff l'm talking about with a lot of wives , she's completely stopped even thinking about 15yrs aho , you can see it.
Not that l'm saying there aren't just as many guys out there on domestic auto too, no way. Just sayin , you sit in any mall and watch any 50 couples , then tell me all 50 of them the women are all perfect , not a hope in hell .

Sadly , my own x was in let herself fall into that bracket mode and just ignored warnings from me of a sorts and of what it was doing to my feelings.
She refused to take anything on board then until l did shut down in the end.
l can 100% say that if she'd have bothered taking any notice and making a bit of effort in the things that meant a lot to me, nothing of the future from there on for my feelings and in what transpired , would have happened .
She sorta became one of these women thinkers that oh - he should love me no matter what if he loves me, l'm on auto from here. But it doesn't work like that , not unless his a door mat .
Then of course , a few yrs later - oh , our marriage is no good any more.
Lots of other stuff going on too but that , for me , was the beginning and stem to everything else. Sad but true .

Point is , no way it doesn't go both ways just as often .


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Apparently TAM has the highest concentration of Mr. Universe and Mrs. Fat Ass on Earth. Totally believable.


And wives who are always satisfied by their sexual dynamo husband's with their 7 inch penises.

Anyone coming here with an axe is without doubt going to find a stone to grind it on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> Who said anything about dismissing the whole post or group of posts? I was just noting that it is not always so simple. Unfortunately, those posts never acknowledged that. All blame was placed on the men. Not just blame, but intent - these men intentionally ignored their wife's complaints.
> 
> Sometimes, it is just ignorance by both parties. The wife complains that she is not appreciated. He tries stepping things up, but his giving more gifts does not work for a woman who is seeking words of affirmation. She says he is not listening, he wonders what she really wants.
> 
> ...


I think that in those posts, the women were speaking of their own experience. They felt that they told her husbands what was going wrong and their husbands dismissed it.

You are right that there are many different scenarios that go down. In some cases what people are calling WAW's spent years trying to communicate in every way they could think of only to be ignored. In some cases they did not.

What we often see happening around here is that every case in which a woman divorces, she is called a WAW who left for no good reason. This is not true in all cases either.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



2ntnuf said:


> Wondering what happened that caused him to "start" texting other women? Was it from his past life experience or something within the current relationship?
> 
> Edit: Nevermind. Too much to rehash there. Just some thoughts going off topic. Sorry.


I thought that affairs are never the fault of the BS, that the WS owns this completely. Why are you trying put blame her for her husband's affairs?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Tall Average Guy said:


> That is good to hear. I just don't believe that every woman communicates as clearly as they think they do. I object to the idea that it is a man problem as much as I object to the idea that it is a woman problem. It is a human problem.


I agree it's a human problem....

There are men and women who do not communicate the problems to their spouses.

There are men and women who refuse to take seriously what their spouses do communicate and who refuse to do anything to work on the marriage. They refuse to believe that their spouse's needs are important.

Neither gender has a monopoly on any of this.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Jung_admirer said:


> Gifts should show admiration of the recipient. Thoughtless gifts show indifference. I did this one time about 20 yrs ago ... will never happen again.


What does no gift show?


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

My ex and I were together 23 years. I thought I worked hard all those years to build up the marriage, keeping it together...in spite of him. I felt unappreciated and unheard. Toward the end, I read, I chatted, searched forums, and even went to marriage counseling alone when he declined. I TRIED to tell him...a thousand times, a thousand different ways. 

He went to work one day and I guess made up his mind that it was over. Came back three days later and told me "I told you a thousand times...". I'd honestly say he never told me. I had no clue that he was even thinking it was over.... I was still working on making it better. 

Just goes to show. Apparently we both thought we were communicating our issues/needs. I have my theories about him and his idea of communicating, but they are not important anymore. In hindsight, of course I could have done things differently. 

I learned from it tho. Since I've remarried, I am more careful or should I say mindful of our communication.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

This is a topic that clearly separates the sexes because we are invested in our own history and the reason the marriage ended. We all have different ideologies and backgrounds.

I will say that I left to salvage what little was left of my sanity and my self esteem. 

He still said I blindsided him which was very devastating at first. I felt guilty. But I am getting better dealing with the guilt, dealing with the loss. Since I left, his mentality has changed and he now feels we should have never gotten married (he always blamed me of stealing his youth). 

I do have some sort of PTSD and lots of triggers.

But as stated before, I am getting stronger. 
I wish him to be happy and whole and healthy and I have apologized for everything he felt I did wrong to him because whether it was true or not, he felt that way and that is what matters.

Has he apologize for what I thought was negative in our marriage? Nope. Will he ever apologize? Nope.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jung_admirer
Gifts should show admiration of the recipient. Thoughtless gifts show indifference. I did this one time about 20 yrs ago ... will never happen again.



EleGirl said:


> What does no gift show?


Narcissism ... would you believe it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Jung_admirer said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Jung_admirer
> Gifts should show admiration of the recipient. Thoughtless gifts show indifference. I did this one time about 20 yrs ago ... will never happen again.
> 
> ...


Might make sense.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Anon Pink said:


> Having nearly been a WAW myself, I can only think WAW needs to be replaced with DAM, Deaf Ass Men...who don't listen, won't hear and refuse to acknowledge a problem!


Great post. If anyone asks who the misandrists of TAM are we can direct them to look at who liked this post.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Great post. If anyone asks who the misandrists of TAM are we can direct them to look at who liked this post.


So we have devolved back to the "blame the man" when it comes to a WAW situation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



treyvion said:


> So we have devolved back to the "blame the man" when it comes to a WAW situation?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, as I understand it-thought admittedly terrible with numbers- the consensus seems to be that the term WAW is almost universally misapplied.

Women don't communicate in the way men can hear. Therefore, women don't communicate, and so men who don't hear actually have wives who can't communicate.

Have I got that right?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Anon Pink said:


> Having nearly been a WAW myself, I can only think WAW needs to be replaced with DAM, Deaf Ass Men...who don't listen, won't hear and refuse to acknowledge a problem!


I like this post a whole lot.. although I can not relate to ever feeling this way... I believe I would do everything I could to verbally speak my unhappiness / our issues... to lay them on the table ...so we could overcome together...deal with it...

If he pushed me away, refusing to communicate, didn't give a damn...his actions just remained the same, thinking I had to get over myself.. this would cause me a great deal of anger...which would resort to my getting bi*cher ...and he'd know Mama was not at all happy now... and out the mouth it would come...letting him know point blank... to not be surprised if/when I walk out the door... I wouldn't spare much....

However....if he was dangerous, abusive or something where he could hurt me...that changes the ball game... I would have to be sly & work around him playing sweet till I gathered myself, had a plan ...and dropped the bomb. 

I had a friend years ago .. her husband was abusive, she played the nice wife...slowly getting her nursing degree around her work schedule....when she moved into that nursing Job.... she left his sorry a$$.. she played it like a pro... there was no dealing with this man.. he was just not a nice person.... I really had no idea things were THAT bad, till she confided in me one day.. and told me her plan... and by golly...she carried it out.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

The problem with this conversation is that people misuse the term WAW.

From all I have read on the topic, the term "WAW" refers to one particular situation.. one in which the woman a million times there are problems and wants him to work with her to fix the marriage. The H isn't receptive and one day the WAW hits her threshold for patience and loses all hope and leaves. 


The term WAW does not refer to marriages in which a woman has never tried to communicate and never done anything to try to fix/save the marriage.

So the OP is suggesting that when a woman communicates to her husband that she feels that there are problems with the marriage, that he should not believe her. 

Now is this really how he feels? Does he really feel that when a woman tells her husband that here are problems that he should ignore her? 

Or is he using the term WAW to mean some other type of situation, such as when a woman has an affair?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The problem with this conversation is that people misuse the term WAW.
> 
> From all I have read on the topic, the term "WAW" refers to one particular situation.. one in which the woman a million times there are problems and wants him to work with her to fix the marriage. The H isn't receptive and one day the WAW hits her threshold for patience and loses all hope and leaves.
> 
> ...


A wayward spouse is one who is no longer prioritizing their marriage because they have an affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

By the way.. there are also WAH (walk away husbands). THey do not get as much press but there are a good number of husbands who try to bring attention to problems in the marriage, whose wives ignore this and will not work on the marriage. And then one day these guys just give up and leave.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



treyvion said:


> A wayward spouse is one who is no longer prioritizing their marriage because they have an affair.


I agree. My point is that a wayward wife is not always a WAW. And a WAW is not always a WW. 

But I think that the OP is using WAW to be equivalent to WW.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> By the way.. there are also WAH (walk away husbands). THey do not get as much press but there are a good number of husbands who try to bring attention to problems in the marriage, whose wives ignore this and will not work on the marriage. And then one day these guys just give up and leave.


Yes it's a two way street. Sometimes the wayward was building a new life without the spouse so their done. We weren't making the walk away be the situation were its obvious your partner refuses to hear you and take care of your basic needs. That's less common than the cheating walk away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Anon Pink said:


> No, as I understand it-thought admittedly terrible with numbers- the consensus seems to be that the term WAW is almost universally misapplied.
> 
> Women don't communicate in the way men can hear. Therefore, women don't communicate, and so men who don't hear actually have wives who can't communicate.
> 
> Have I got that right?


Not really because it still basically suggests that all women mean and do well, just differently to men but , they don't. Only some do , just like men .
But we aren't automatically excused just because we do things differently and they get no blame for not reading our language. Yet many women can't read his but we still somehow get blamed for not reading hers, just sayin .


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



ScarletBegonias said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It is infuriating when everyone assumes a woman walked away bc she had a piece waiting on the side.
> 
> So,I'm not a WAW.My ex was a DAM. LOL


I thought, for a long time, that my ex-wife left because she had somebody else lined up. (because when she DID leave, there WAS somebody).

However, it took me a while to figure out that she had checked out of our marriage a couple of years beforehand, did the staging and saving thing (~$20k in savings hidden from me... sigh) and only left when she had a plan.

I think this type of thing is worse than an affair, or outright leaving for another man. It was 2-3 years of my life that I thought was okay, marriage-wise, because nothing was ever said to me otherwise, and the charade was convincing enough. I think it's reprehensible for the partner to do something like this. Life-altering decisions were made during this period, under the guise of the future, however there was no future to speak of, and only one side knew this. Scratch that, one side AND some friends of hers, and a close relative. In the end, a few of these people sympathized with me after it was all over, and let me know that they did not approve of what she had done and told her that she shouldn't string me along like that. But, as much as it helped to hear from those people that they didn't approve of her doing that, it was also quite embarrassing to me, knowing that people I spent time with over that period of time, likely felt sorry for me, during and after, because they knew she had checked out. It's an incredibly mean and selfish thing for somebody to do - end a relationship without the other knowing. Meanwhile, here I am, working on it, acting like a husband, planning for the future.

In my case, I really, truly believe that I was not a DAM, as my ex never spoke to me about my failures as a husband. Even several years after we split, we had an email conversation to provide me some closure (when she left, she really, really left, minimal discussion and no closure for me). And she told me that it had nothing to do with me, that it was all her, and that I wasn't a bad husband.) To be fair, she did go through some lifestyle changes while we were together (ie. took up running among other things) and she lost a lot of weight as a result. I did not follow suit, even though she wanted me to "share" in this with her, so she could have a gym/running partner. I have never been interested in that sort of thing, but I gave it a try, but it wasn't for me. I am not overweight, or particularly sedentary, however she took my lack of interest in her new interest to be a sign of us growing apart... sigh. But I didn't go deaf on her in regards to this. I gave it a shot, and had no interest, meanwhile it became her daily MO.

So I think the post is largely about this subject, as it DOES happen. Sometimes people check out for their own reasons and it has little or nothing to do with their partner.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



EleGirl said:


> The problem with this conversation is that people misuse the term WAW.


I agree.



> From all I have read on the topic, the term "WAW" refers to one particular situation.. one in which the woman a million times there are problems and wants him to work with her to fix the marriage. The H isn't receptive and one day the WAW hits her threshold for patience and loses all hope and leaves.


I disagree. I have never seen the term "WAW" used to refer to this situation, outside of this thread.



> The term WAW does not refer to marriages in which a woman has never tried to communicate and never done anything to try to fix/save the marriage.


Again, I disagree. This is the only situation where I have used, or seen used, the term "WAW."



> So the OP is suggesting that when a woman communicates to her husband that she feels that there are problems with the marriage, that he should not believe her.


No. The OP was quoting the 180. And the 180 is used for spouses who have checked out of the marriage with little interest for repairing it. Such spouses are inherently untrustworthy.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



EleGirl said:


> I agree. My point is that a wayward wife is not always a WAW. And a WAW is not always a WW.
> 
> But I think that the OP is using WAW to be equivalent to WW.


The WAW can range the whole gamut with variable responsibilities to each party. It can range from a clod H that treats his wife like crap and she finally gets the courage to leave to a wonderful guy with a wife in a MLC.

In my real world friends and acquaintances I've seen that range.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



> The term WAW does not refer to marriages in which a woman has never tried to communicate and never done anything to try to fix/save the marriage.





PHTlump said:


> Again, I disagree. This is the only
> situation where I have used, or seen used, the term "WAW."


:iagree: (with PHT)

In a WAW, situation, she may have communicated long before she left, but there is no sign of a problem anytime near her departure.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

What I wonder about is how many older women in nursing school are there because they are prepping to be a WAW? 

I've had three friends have that happen to them. They were fully supportive of their wives going back to school because their kids were older. What happens when the graduate and land a job? GONE. Two have remarried, and both new wives have made comments about how "I don't understand why she'd leave, he's a great guy."


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



treyvion said:


> Yes it's a two way street. Sometimes the wayward was building a new life without the spouse so their done. We weren't making the walk away be the situation were its obvious your partner refuses to hear you and take care of your basic needs. That's less common than the cheating walk away.


I don't think we know which is more common... 

WAW/WAH who is not cheating...

Or a wife/husband who has an exist affair.

I am not aware of any study that has been done on this.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

Maybe it would help if we can agree on what a WAW is.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome

Certainly there can be some variables involved.

I have not seen any examples from the women in this thread indicating they themselves were WAW's. They made efforts to save/maintain their marriages up to the end.

WAW's don't do this.

WAW's quit the marriage before telling their spouses. They stay in the marriage until they are ready to leave. Some save (hide) money, some start new careers, some find a new partner and others find a reason to emotionally justify blaming their spouse for everything.

If we can agree on Ms Weiner's definition, these women do make their opinions heard at some point. Then they stop. It may be years before they leave.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Ceegee said:


> Maybe it would help if we can agree on what a WAW is.
> 
> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome
> 
> ...


This is the definition of WAW that I have always seen.

Well except for here on TAM where WAW seems to mean any woman who files for divorce.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

It's easy to throw a label on something we don't understand.

To the OP's original question, if you isolate that period where the WAW has quit the marriage but not yet ended it, I certainly think the quote applies.

They're aren't being honest about their intentions in the marriage and aren't ready to end it. This makes it very hard to believe them.

Again, I don't believe any of the women here fit the WAW profile so this is not directed at you.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



larry.gray said:


> What I wonder about is how many older women in nursing school are there because they are prepping to be a WAW?
> 
> I've had three friends have that happen to them. They were fully supportive of their wives going back to school because their kids were older. What happens when the graduate and land a job? GONE. Two have remarried, and both new wives have made comments about how "I don't understand why she'd leave, he's a great guy."


My x was a nurse . Not sure why but apparently it's pretty common for nurses to eff off ! And mostly in the women nurses .
Mine was seeing a shrink and he told her it's also very common for female nurses to basically end up letting things fall apart at home. Like the mechanic that has a piece of [email protected] car , he can't be stuffed after working on them all day to maintain his own .


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

*WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what...*



whitehawk said:


> My x was a nurse . Not sure why but apparently it's pretty common for nurses to eff off ! And mostly in the women nurses .
> Mine was seeing a shrink and he told her it's also very common for female nurses to basically end up letting things fall apart at home. Like the mechanic that has a piece of [email protected] car , he can't be stuffed after working on them all day to maintain his own .


They're fixers Hawk. That's what they do.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Ceegee said:


> Maybe it would help if we can agree on what a WAW is.
> 
> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome
> 
> ...


Mine very very vaguely made it heard, very vaguely but at the same time was also very strong about everything being just fine .
l don't believe in this BS type of so called communication it is total BS . lf there is a problem , get it out there loud and clear there are childrens lives, a family, your h or w and everything you've all worked for at stake.

PS, To quit first and then find the guts to complain is pathetic and weak really because those your suppose to love and cherish lives will be hurt and changed forever .


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



larry.gray said:


> Great post. If anyone asks who the misandrists of TAM are we can direct them to look at who liked this post.


I hold people accountable for their actions. If a husband doesn't listen or bother to care, then they are held accountable for their part in the marital demise or "WAW". If that makes me a misandrist because I "liked" her post saying as such, then so be it. I am in no way one however. I love men and respect them enough to not view them as infants incapable of being responsible for their actions. How interesting that holding them accountable equals misandry. I'll ask my husband and guy friends their thoughts on this matter. I am confident they will have a very, very different take on what responsibility and misandry means.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



PHTlump said:


> No. The OP was quoting the 180. And the 180 is used for spouses who have checked out of the marriage with little interest for repairing it. Such spouses are inherently untrustworthy.


Would you say that to the guys in the Men's Section post titled "Staying for the kids"? 7 pages of men who say they are only sticking around because of children, have checked out of the marriage and are going to spring divorce papers on their wives once the kids are older. What about them? Untrustworthy?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Would you say that to the guys in the Men's Section post titled "Staying for the kids"? 7 pages of men who say they are only sticking around because of children, have checked out of the marriage and are going to spring divorce papers on their wives once the kids are older. What about them? Untrustworthy?


Since they are staying, I wouldn't classify them the same as a spouse who walked away.

But I would say that the basic mindset can be the same. Either the husbands tried everything they could think of, to no avail, or they tried nothing, mentally checked out, and will completely shock their wives by leaving.

If they have tried nothing, and will shock their wives with a surprise divorce, I would not defend their morality and insist that their wives had it coming.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



whitehawk said:


> My x was a nurse . Not sure why but apparently it's pretty common for nurses to eff off ! And mostly in the women nurses .
> Mine was seeing a shrink and he told her it's also very common for female nurses to basically end up letting things fall apart at home. Like the mechanic that has a piece of [email protected] car , he can't be stuffed after working on them all day to maintain his own .


Nurses spend their lives caring for other people, answering every call. They are tapped out and when they get home, they have more nurturing to do. Nurses have a very hard time asking for nurturing because they themselves answer that call all day long.

So if your wife is a nurse, it would be in your best interest to learn to nurture her BEFORE she asks.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*



Anon Pink said:


> Nurses spend their lives caring for other people, answering every call. They are tapped out and when they get home, they have more nurturing to do. Nurses have a very hard time asking for nurturing because they themselves answer that call all day long.
> 
> So if your wife is a nurse, it would be in your best interest to learn to nurture her BEFORE she asks.


Hmm , damn shame you didn't tell me that about 3yrs ago but l see what you mean.
Strange , or stoopid but in 18yrs you know, l never ever thought of it like that.

l'd love to care for her more, she has no one now , maybe one day she lets me make up for it !


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## frank29 (Aug 22, 2012)

*Re: WAW-- "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you*

This part of doing a 180 i think


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