# Cheating and lying - bacwards compatible?



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I certainly do believe that Cheaters lie...I believe this goes hand-in-hand, for obvious reasons ( to cover up, minimize damage, etc. ) 
...but do most of you feel this is backwards-compatible...? I mean can it be said that liars, in a marriage or relationship that lie to their spouses about anything...finances, protecting the kids, whereabouts, most likely/will cheat in any way...PA or EA? 

If there was a scenario that involved you finding out that your spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend lied about a few things regarding money or whereabouts or other issues ( even if they admitted afterwards OR you found out by means not involving them telling you ), or even trickle-truthed things, would flags be raised that this lack of character has an excellent chance to being linked to infidelity?...or the potential of them committing infidelity... 

just curious about your opinions


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

deg20,

In my personal life people I've know who were serial cheaters did seem to also lie about other aspects of their lives as well. From how much they spent on a car accessory to where they were, they seem to lie even when there was no gain for them to do so. 

On the other hand people who have confessed things like one night stands or short affairs to me, were more likely to strengthen their resolve to live an honest life henceforth. Quite often I would hear thing like I never want to do anything like that again in my life etc.

Tamat


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I believe cheaters are liars. I do not believe the reverse is always true. 

My grandmother made me dinner shortly before she passed. Her eyesight was failing as was her health. She asked me if i liked it. I lied and said yes and had seconds. I never cheated on my wife. 

Before we blew up My wife also asked me if an outfit made her backside look big. I lied about that as well at times.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I do feel that all cheaters lie, for the reasons you stated, and they do lie about other things in their lives. I believe that infidelity defines their character or at least gives you a strong indication of you can expect from them as individuals (and not good traits)

I think almost all people do lie at some point in their lives. to some degree, but they all don't cheat on their spouses.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

One of my brothers is a pathological liar, and he also has cheated on his stbxw multiple times.
I think the volume of the deception habit is a factor, white lies to prevent someone feeling bad don't point to a compulsion.
Habitual lying specifically is indicative of the potential for more lies, and would be worth some suspicion about infidelity.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I guess what I meant was, if the spouse lies to the other spouse, is this usually a good indication that infidelity is likely present, or may be in the future...can it be a more-likely-than-not indication


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

It's certainly at least a pink flag for cheating.
But I wouldn't want to be married to a liar anyway, even if she wasn't cheating on me.

P. S. The technical term for the relation you are asking about would be "logical converse", e.g., if A implies B, the "logical converse" would be that B implies A.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

deg20 said:


> I guess what I meant was, if the spouse lies to the other spouse, is this usually a good indication that infidelity is likely present, or may be in the future...can it be a more-likely-than-not indication


I understood.

i'm saying it depends on the lie. If your spouse lies to spare your feelings eg: honey, your butt looks great, and dinner was amazing. That's not an effort to deceive, necessarily, but to keep the peace and/or offer a compliment. Most people consider white lies harmless. no red flags.

But someone who you know consistently lies about anything and everything? That's definitely cause for some suspicion about present or future infidelity.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

deg20 said:


> I certainly do believe that Cheaters lie...I believe this goes hand-in-hand, for obvious reasons ( to cover up, minimize damage, etc. )
> ...but do most of you feel this is backwards-compatible...? I mean can it be said that liars, in a marriage or relationship that lie to their spouses about anything...finances, protecting the kids, whereabouts, most likely/will cheat in any way...PA or EA?
> 
> If there was a scenario that involved you finding out that your spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend lied about a few things regarding money or whereabouts or other issues ( even if they admitted afterwards OR you found out by means not involving them telling you ), or even trickle-truthed things, would flags be raised that this lack of character has an excellent chance to being linked to infidelity?...or the potential of them committing infidelity...
> ...


I dated my ex-wife for 4 years before I married her. Should never have done so, obviously. I always knew she was a really bad liar. However, I stupidly thought that she would never ever cheat on me and LIE ABOUT IT. I was a fool. I do think that a person who can lie about everything else in their life, is very unlikely to be truthful in other aspects. I think the low character on lying is indicative of a general lack of character which results in cheating being easier to cope with for the unfaithful person, therefore making it more likely. Just my opinion, which is possibly very biased. I believe it still.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I think that is there is a pattern of lying about other areas in the marriage such as finance, work, children, etc then there is a higher probability that person will cheat because they are comfortable with lying and know they will probably get away with it.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

sixty-eight said:


> I understood.
> 
> i'm saying it depends on the lie. *If your spouse lies to spare your feelings eg: honey, your butt looks great, and dinner was amazing. That's not an effort to deceive, necessarily*, but to keep the peace and/or offer a compliment. Most people consider white lies harmless. no red flags.


Ummm....yes it _is_!


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Vega said:


> Ummm....yes it _is_!


Thats your opinion. Mine is, is that white lies are intended to spare feelings, not as a smokescreen for nefarious activities. And if you let your SO know that telling you the truth about your butt will land them in the doghouse, you leave them no recourse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

We used to joke that my H could never lie to me. He has such an honest face & I can read him like a book. It's amazing how an A can change someone beyond recognition! Honest people lie when they cheat. 

People who live on the edge & lie a lot are more likely to have boundary & respect issues so more likely to cheat.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

sixty-eight said:


> Thats your opinion. Mine is, is that white lies are intended to spare feelings, not as a smokescreen for nefarious activities.


Right, but the problem is that cheaters also say that they are hiding their affairs from the BS to spare their feelings...


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Right, but the problem is that cheaters also say that they are hiding their affairs from the BS to spare their feelings...


I get that, but the logical converse is not usually true. Sparing the feelings of a partner isn't a usual red flag for an affair.

On a side note, i think that particular excuse is one of the least acceptable. I had an ex boyfriend in college use that to explain why he had gotten back together with his ex gf from home while still dating me at school. Dating both of us to spare my feelings. And then he wanted to stay friends. What a putz.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

My husband lies constantly. About stupid stuff, about big stuff. Sometimes I think he'd lie to me about the color of the sky.

But according to him he's never had a PA. He has had EA but to this point, he won't even admit it to himself, let alone me.

I guess what I'm saying is, liars come in all colors of the rainbow. 

I had a one time PA, but in most other aspects of my life, I tell the truth. 

My husband claims to have never had a PA, but lies about the littlest things.

Hard to draw a concrete line between the two.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Not that i find any particular reason acceptable. I meant acceptable as in, i find it hard to believe that he actually convinced himself that he cheated and lied to spare my feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

sixty-eight said:


> Thats your opinion. Mine is, is that white lies are intended to spare feelings, not as a smokescreen for nefarious activities. And if you let your SO know that telling you the truth about your butt will land them in the doghouse, you leave them no recourse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A "white lie" is STILL a LIE. 

If you can't figure out how to tell the truth in such a way so as to NOT hurt someone's feelings _intentionally_, then I'd say you still have some work to do on yourself. 

And likewise, the person asking their spouse if the clothes they wear makes their "butt look big", could stand to do some maturing as well. 

Think about it...


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Vega said:


> A "white lie" is STILL a LIE.
> 
> If you can't figure out how to tell the truth in such a way so as to NOT hurt someone's feelings _intentionally_, then I'd say you still have some work to do on yourself.
> 
> ...


When i think about it, i think about the fact that there is no need to make a hypothetical, personal. Your reply is rabbit trailing and aggressive.

We weren't discussing maturity of people who tell/need white lies. We were discussing the possible correlation between cheating and lying. And my point was that habitual lying might go hand in hand with cheating, but in my opinion, white lies are dissimilar in that regard. I was not insinuating that they point to maturity. I never said I personally am ok with white lies, only that they are widely believed to be harmless.

Mr. 68 doesn't care if i think his butt is big or not. 
If you wanted to start a new thread about how couples who tell white lies to each other or feel validated by white lies, may be immature and have some work to do on themselves, we might find ourselves on the same side of the debate.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

of course it's still a lie. it's called a white lie. not a white fib, or a white deception. My point was of it's goal. Is the goal of a white lie to deceive? or to placate? Of course the goal is to not make the other person angry when confronted with a loaded question. It's not some evil plot to fool them about the volume of their behind.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You can take one of the most moral and upright person you know. If they start to cheat it's lie, hide, deny.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

As a general rule, I would think that a person capable of lying to and betraying their partner about other things has a greater probability of engaging in infidelity as well, but it would not be anything approaching a guarantee.

I just see it as a sign that they are comfortably capable of deception and manipulation in regards to their spouse.

From personal experience, I do know that my maternal grandmother was a notorious liar about almost everything.

She was a serial cheater who even had a 'love' child from her last A.

That child, my aunt, ended up being a meth user for over 25 years who only cleaned up about the time my grandmother passed.

Part of the reason for that is my grandmother would continuously lie to other family members to bail my aunt out of her troubles.

She lied to her sister to get money she then gave to my aunt.

She secretly raided my grandfather's money market accounts, to the tune of almost 60,000 dollars over the last decade of her life, to bail my aunt out of one problem or another (owing dealers, court fines, etc)....and lied to and hid it from my grandfather.

Heck, she even pawned the 2 carat diamond from her wedding band and gave the money to my aunt and told everyone in the family she had dropped it down a drain in the sink. (my aunt, after she cleaned up and my grandmother passed told the truth about this one)

Worse yet, she constantly encouraged all of us grandkids to lie to avoid consequences whenever we faced some trouble in life.....plus she always went out of her way to lie to cover for any of us with schools or other adults.

Up until about the age of 11, I used to think she was great because she always told my parents fibs to get me out of any punishments I might be facing for doing something stupid or reckless.

It was only after I started to mature that I realized just how pathological she truly was about lying.....and from that time forward I was never really close to her. 

When her serial adultery was accidentally revealed in an argument between my mom and aunt a couple years ago.....I was anything but shocked.

It entirely fit with the way she had always lived her life....and I noticed that even at a young age.

She was incapable of being honest and loyal to anyone.

I still can't figure out how or why my grandfather ever stayed with her....he told my mom he did it for her, but I can't see how anybody could have tolerated what he put up with.

I know I wouldn't.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

deg20 said:


> I certainly do believe that Cheaters lie...I believe this goes hand-in-hand, for obvious reasons ( to cover up, minimize damage, etc. )
> ...but do most of you feel this is backwards-compatible...? I mean can it be said that liars, in a marriage or relationship that lie to their spouses about anything...finances, protecting the kids, whereabouts, most likely/will cheat in any way...PA or EA?
> 
> If there was a scenario that involved you finding out that your spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend lied about a few things regarding money or whereabouts or other issues ( even if they admitted afterwards OR you found out by means not involving them telling you ), or even trickle-truthed things, would flags be raised that this lack of character has an excellent chance to being linked to infidelity?...or the potential of them committing infidelity...
> ...


My wife cheated on me. But she NEVER lied. 

Her 100% pure honesty can sometimes get her into strife!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

If you cheat, don't you have to lie?

The worse is lies by omission.


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