# Do People Just Assume...



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

that the cheater was the only one in the marriage whose "needs" were not being met? I am amazed at how the cheater's failure to b meet needs is oftenoverlooked. I see these cooments all the time: Your cheater must have been driven to cheat by failure to have his or her needs met".
Well, guuess what? Many cheaters seem to be bottomless pits of need, under the impression that it is their betrayed spouse's duty to fill the void within them.
And,many,many cheaters were the driving forces behind pre affair marital problems.
So, meet the cheater's needs and suck it up BSs.If you had only met their needs to begin with, none of this would have happened(escuse me while I vomit).


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

Arnold said:


> that the cheater was the only one in the marriage whose "needs" were not being met? I am amazed at how the cheater's failure to b meet needs is oftenoverlooked. I see these cooments all the time: Your cheater must have been driven to cheat by failure to have his or her needs met".
> Well, guuess what? Many cheaters seem to be bottomless pits of need, under the impression that it is their betrayed spouse's duty to fill the void within them.
> And,many,many cheaters were the driving forces behind pre affair marital problems.
> So, meet the cheater's needs and suck it up BSs.If you had only met their needs to begin with, none of this would have happened(escuse me while I vomit).


Very valid point, there were many times my "Needs" were not being met, but I realized that's the way it is sometimes when you have two kids, one with a life threatening illness, a pair of sick in-laws and grandmother with Alzheimers etc. It would have been very easy for me to say "F" this, I need a BJ", but instead I just got on with it as " I can handle this, If I can I'll ask for help". There is no excuse for an affair, if things are that bad leave. From what I've seen around here most of the times the excuses for the affair are ludicrous


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Well, first the cheater's line of not having their needs met is just their own personal (lame) justification for their affair. And yeah, the BS needs were not met. The DS was too busy giving it to someone else. It's funny how the DS meets someone, begins to "connect" with that someone, their focus is shifted from the spouse to the AP, they spend time away from home to be with the AP, they neglect their spouses need and anything the spouse says becomes "nagging", it becomes "they don't understand me", it becomes a lot of boo hoo sob cry baby whiney ass bull crap. It becomes their justification for the affair. I can tell you in my own marriage, my needs were not met because he was too busy meeting the "needs" of the skuzzies. But, I never cheated on my husband. I'd ask him for us to be able to have a date night at least once a month. He'd say he couldn't we didn't have the extra money to go out (I can't imagine what a bad, bad wife I must have been to ask him to take money away from his skuzzies. Bad Apple. Bad, bad, bad) I'd ask him to give me one night--one night a week, for 30 minutes a night that we could talk. He called me selfish. He called me, and I quote: "A selfish bish" for not being understanding of his need to have a quiet night at home. (and all I asked for was 30 minutes once a week to talk) Now, he'd come home from work at night, he'd leave a trail of clothes going from the door to down the hall way to the bathroom, then he would stay in the bathroom for up to 30 minutes at a time before coming out. Then he would sit, in his underwear on the couch and watch tv. He would completely ignore me. He would not ask how my day was, and if I tried to talk to him, he'd grab the remote, turn off the tv, turn to me with a nasty glare and growl "what the fvck do you want" at me. I would then walk away. He'd turn the tv back on, watch whatever he was watching, then he'd come demand I'd apologize to him for being rude. It got to where I stopped asking him for date nights. I stopped trying to communicate with him but yet, I was the one who was at fault for not being understanding of his needs. Yes, I was a very bad Apple. No wonder he had to cheat on me with all those skuzzies.


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## Oregon38 (Sep 19, 2010)

Even "bad apples" can taste sweet, it's his loss and your gain, Apple.



Arnold said:


> Many cheaters seem to be bottomless pits of need, under the impression that it is their betrayed spouse's duty to fill the void within them.
> 
> *My ex was more like a black hole, sucking in everything she could get from me. At times I felt like being a chewing gum while she was getting all the good flavor from me and neglected my needs. After I didn't taste good anymore, she spit me out and got a new piece of gum. *
> 
> ...


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

It is stories like these that have led me to conclude that a high% of cheaters are personality disordered. The infidelity was the final straw in a mountain of abuse. 
Some of the things my XW did or said to me were F'ing unbelievable, they were so sadistic.
I hope you folks come to see the cheating as your get out of jail free card, as I have. People may not understand or think yiu are exaggerating when you ry to describe the emotional abuse they heaped on you. But, most folks understand cheating is a dealbreaker and do not blame you for getting the hell out.
I looked on a site for cheaters that one of the other posters pointed out. These folks are the absolute dregs of humanity. Thye are so selfish and superficial it sickens me to think I am member of the same species.


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## Oregon38 (Sep 19, 2010)

I also strongly believe that a lot of cheaters are challenged by a personality disorder. My ex learned/earned many of those traits from her mother who was also emotionally/mentally abusive to her husband and their relationship ended in a divorce. Even the timeline is almost exactly the same. On top of that she was sexually abused as a child. But I didn't care about all that, I took her the way she was because I saw the "good" in her.

My ex never took responsibility for all her actions which eventually resulted in several suicide attempts by myself. I'm not proud of myself for that but I didn't have the coping tools which I have now and I was totally drained from 17 years of abuse. The cherry on top was that she got me arrested for some bogus charges because she wanted me out of her life. The result was jail and a no contact order.

This was my "get out of jail free card" since I was forced to have no contact with her. She was out of the picture, still trying to manipulate and control me, but I finally woke up and saw what was really going on. I recovered and now I'm thinking who was really the "crazy one"? me or her?

I never ever thought she would be capable of so many things but reality says otherwise. One of her famous lines was "If I would tell somebody normal the way you act/or what you say they would say you are crazy". Maybe she was talking about herself and not me all that time.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Fk yeah! A total get out of jail free card! It's fkn awesome. Well, it's not ALL awesome, lots of things about the separation suck. But....

Coffee dates with a few sexy ladies! The odd après dinner BJ. the odd après dinner night cap....and when I say night cap, I mean sex.

Any long term potential for me yet? No. But the ride is fun. To think I thought I wouldn't be able to meet anyone after my marital breakdown.

I just figured I didn't want to sit at home wallowing by myself, so I decided to take my life in my own hands for once.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Oh yeah. My needs wernt met at ALL. But, I just made matters worse being a clingy nice guy. And add serious passive agressive tendencies on top of that. The cycle was bad. Looking back, though, I wouldn't want to be with me either. Crappy the way things worked out, but I am Stronger for it, so that's a bonus.

But, in a way, I do fully understand WHY she had an affair. While I wasn't a douche to her, I was a passive agressive nice guy, so that made me a d$ck. Keep that up for years, enter ex boyfriend, and viola! Some love banks starting to get filled. And there you have it. An affair in the works!

But my story, of course, is different than others who experience cheating a$$hats in thier marriage. As each of our stories is unique.


I tend to think of my WW as still a great person that just made bad decisions on how to handle her own issues. But some stories of behaviour, like Apples ex, where the WS is just an a$$hat, make me shake my head. Because those kind of stories are just full of selfish pr&cks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Arnold, right after DDay, when I was reaching out to friends for support, I just felt so used and taken advantage of, not only were my needs not even close to being met, (and I lived with this just as allthegoodnames suggested, because it was just a time in life when sacrifices have to be made, responsibilities are being dealt with and our energies are spread thin - I just assumed it was two ways) But to suddenly realize she was just exploiting all the things I was sacrificing - things were crappy because there was nothing left for us, because she used and used until there was nothing left in me then just discarded my carcass. I literally described it as feeling like the victim of a vampire. I was so angry I let that happen to me, untilI just wrote this I had been able to completely get past this, but even now when I think about this once again it just makes me so livid.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Fk yeah! A total get out of jail free card! It's fkn awesome. Well, it's not ALL awesome, lots of things about the separation suck. But....
> 
> Coffee dates with a few sexy ladies! The odd après dinner BJ. the odd après dinner night cap....and when I say night cap, I mean sex.
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you mean here... as I was nailing a new ladyfriend I thought for a brief second this must be sorta how it was for the ex to get banged by these other guys, except without the guilt or shame. I win!!! (btw, its all new to me, very recent, have barely dated but I do enjoy how women my age don't waste time beating around the bush)


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

That seems to be the general idea nowadays in this day and age. That somehow, it's your fault as the BS, that your spouse/SO cheated, because you weren't meeting their needs. That is until they get cheated on.

Like every BS here, we've also had unfulfilled needs, yet never went outside the marriage to fulfill those needs. Society is just so screwed up now.


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## Oregon38 (Sep 19, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> That seems to be the general idea nowadays in this day and age. That somehow, it's your fault as the BS, that your spouse/SO cheated, because you weren't meeting their needs. That is until they get cheated on.
> 
> Like every BS here, we've also had unfulfilled needs, yet never went outside the marriage to fulfill those needs. Society is just so screwed up now.


Well, it's seems to be so much easier for the cheater to put their happiness and wellbeing in the hand of the right "victim" and let him/her do the hard work. It's a major character flaw to expect that a partner's job is to fulfill all those needs and blame them afterwards if it didn't happen. 

Everybody is responsible for themself. A relationship in harmony is supposed to make this process easier because you are both working as a team and supporting each other. 

I'm just waiting for my ex to get cheated on, pretty sure it will happen. The constellation is already there. Her new boy toy is 25, 10 years younger than her, south from the border. They are having trust issues. Him and her are working together will several other women he already had an affair with. She's supporting his life style because he doesn't make that much money. Wait and see...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Oregon38 said:


> I'm just waiting for my ex to get cheated on, pretty sure it will happen. The constellation is already there. Her new boy toy is 25, 10 years younger than her, south from the border. They are having trust issues. Him and her are working together will several other women he already had an affair with. She's supporting his life style because he doesn't make that much money. Wait and see...


It seems inevitable that she's going to get run over by the karma bus. What will you do when she come crying and running back to you?


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## Oregon38 (Sep 19, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> It seems inevitable that she's going to get run over by the karma bus. What will you do when she come crying and running back to you?


I will take care of my daughter, being as supportive and loving as a dad can be. Unfortunately, she is living with my ex, exposed to all this fantasy world BS. This kid has already suffered enough in her 12 years of life. Seeing me constantly put down by my ex, no friends, emotionally abused by her mom. The list goes on and on. 

As to my ex, I wouldn't even touch her with a pair of pliers anymore. She has changed the street sign from two way to one way street. Her choice, her responsibility. Maybe then, she will learn that it is finally her turn to take responsibility for herself because there won't be anybody left she can pass on the blame.


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## I_Will_Survive (Oct 28, 2011)

Great thread. Confirms so much of what I feel. Would share but gotta run pick up a kid. THANK YOU!! Esp Apple: "Bad Apple!" LOL!!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Someone who's inherently selfish is going to justify being selfish. They might not outwardly blame the other party but they will feel justified in whatever they do. That's the nature of the thing.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

A-
Interesting take, once one has to let others meet thier need then expectation and then resentment sets in.
OK, I never read "his needs her needs" or is it "her needs his needs" IDK, but my point is that I do not feel intitled to have someone meet my needs ( guess thats were the M problems come from) LOL.

Meeting my needs is a reward I get from being with that special someone


My bottom line is the moral compass that directs folks. The ultimite factor in how people treat others! No matter how "they" want to justify the betrayal, it is wrong to tell someone one thing and do something (actions) completely oppisite to them.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Arnold said:


> It is stories like these that have led me to conclude that a high% of cheaters are personalty disordered.


 Don't know if ur in the mood for a discussion on the biological reason that you are correct ... But yes, you are absolutely correct. It has to do with brain chemistry. People with BPD, all degrees of depression and various other chemical imbalances are much more likely to commit adultery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Hey Pit, whats my bioligicial reason for why I'm the way I am???LOL

Your right though...broken people are a pain in the butt! It just suckes!
I'm married to one, but its up to her to fix her self, to hang out with me. I guess its up to me to fix my self for her to hang out with me....\
\
What also sucks is we need more chemicals to help with the already chemical imbalance......go figure.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Lol. Dunno why ur the way u are, maybe u should see ur doctor? Lol

Actually I was doing some research for someone here about his "case" and because dopamine fasciniates in a "crime scene" sorta way and stumbled into that information.

Dont have the info in front of me but Has to do with inability to process the neurotransmitter dopamine normally, yet being susceptible to an abnormal surges in the production of it. Causes "super fog" ....lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oregon38 (Sep 19, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Don't know if ur in the mood for a discussion on the biological reason that you are correct ... But yes, you are absolutely correct. It has to do with brain chemistry. People with BPD, all degrees of depression and various other chemical imbalances are much more likely to commit adultery.


I must be an exception then. I'm challenged with chronic depression for over 10 years. I guess I was too depressed to even think about sh*t like that. 

But all the kidding aside, I strongly agree that the brain chemistry has a huge impact on it. I guess some pills and therapy would have been much cheaper in the long run for my ex than just going down the cheater path.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

O- I hear you. not to take any thing away from Pit, but I have my probs and still remained loyal.

The brain is a funny thing!


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## Oregon38 (Sep 19, 2010)

The brain is truly a funny thing. I think all the brain cells got converted over into a brown mass called sh*t in my ex's head. That's why she lost the ability to think clearly. LOL


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

the guy said:


> not to take any thing away from Pit, but I have my probs and still remained loyal.


Most serial killers are white males in their 30's, come from broken homes and have suffered some form of abuse in throughout their childhood. Because your a white dude who's parents are divorced and you were smacked around as a kid doesn't make you a serial killer though?... lol. Don't think depression makes someone a cheater but I do think it ads some extra grease to the "slippery slope" if they choose to get close to it... That slopes pretty trecherous. 

It's just data, probabilities and neuroscience spew that intrigues me... The things I mentioned are facts not excuses for them... I'm driven to understand why and how people tick. Doesn't stop that damn annoying "tick" they have [lol], but understanding it does depersonalize it. For me, the most effective way to cope with and heal from the trauma is to understand it as much as i can. But, that's just how I tick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oregon38 (Sep 19, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> For me, the most effective way to cope with and heal from the trauma is to understand it as much as i can. But, that's just how I tick.


I'm trying to do that same and already gained quite some insight. I actually shared some of the things with my therapist and he said suddenly that I was still trying to analyze my ex way too much. WTF I just want to understand more. I was blamed way too long for things I now know were not my fault at all.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Oregon38 said:


> I'm trying to do that same and already gained quite some insight. I actually shared some of the things with my therapist and he said suddenly that I was still trying to analyze my ex way too much. WTF I just want to understand more. I was blamed way too long for things I now know were not my fault at all.


^ Yes. This is what I went through and how I attempted to understand things as well.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I think it is really difficult to admit that understanding the mind of a disordered person is not going to happen. Their frame of reference is just too different.


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## Oregon38 (Sep 19, 2010)

Another problem with those disordered individuals is that they became soooo good in what they are doing over time.

On the outside they look like a normal person, they are so convincable, can manipulate others so well and act like they are the perfect person.

Deep inside, they are "hell walking on two feet". Meeting my ex for the first time and talking to her, nobody would ever think that she would be capable of doing what she did.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

Oregon38 said:


> Another problem with those disordered individuals is that they became soooo good in what they are doing over time.
> 
> On the outside they look like a normal person, they are so convincable, can manipulate others so well and act like they are the perfect person.
> 
> Deep inside, they are "hell walking on two feet". Meeting my ex for the first time and talking to her, nobody would ever think that she would be capable of doing what she did.


I have one of these species. He is also in sales so you can imagine how good he is at leaving good impression and manipulating others.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Oregon38 said:


> Another problem with those disordered individuals is that they became soooo good in what they are doing over time.
> 
> On the outside they look like a normal person, they are so convincable, can manipulate others so well and act like they are the perfect person.
> 
> Deep inside, they are "hell walking on two feet". Meeting my ex for the first time and talking to her, nobody would ever think that she would be capable of doing what she did.


Amen to that. it is virtually indiscernible. But, I will say that women catch on to her much more quickly than guys, due to her looks.


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

Like many others have posted, my wife's response to discovery of her almost 6-year EA was to tell me about all of the things I wasn't doing to make her feel good about our life together. Her assumption was that I was living the life I wanted at her expense. I will admit to my contribution to the disconnect we were both feeling and I have made some substantial changes to reverse my bad patterns of behavior. She, however, is struggling with what she needs to do on her end. There has been NC and we are making what I would consider to be encouraging progress, but so far (four months) it still feels that the effort is pretty one-sided to me. 

As I look back, there is a consistent pattern to this dynamic. She expresses frustration with something and I try to "fix" it for her. If what I do doesn't fix it or isn't what she wants, she does something for herself, leaving me to accept it or not. 

Later in our marriage she talked about how we never went anywhere outside our small town in the Midwest or did anything fun and interesting. In the past 15 years we have been to Colorado three times, Italy, Germany, the Middle East, Oregon, California twice, the East Coast six times (NYC, DC, Baltimore, Outer Banks, and Hilton Head) Florida twice, and to the Gulf Coast twice. She has also traveled without me to Greece (twice), Florida twice, and Colorado twice. Do the math and she has averaged more than one trip per year to a pretty nice place. These are on top of other nice trips she, she and I, or the family have made around the Midwest, including several short vacations or long weekend getaway trips to places like Chicago and Northern Michigan. On top of these, she declined my invitations to join me in Hungary, China, the Netherlands, Mexico, and several shorter trips to Florida, New Orleans, and Las Vegas. Still she says we "never go anywhere." Not once in the past 15 years has she come to me with an idea for us to take a trip together where she has done any of the planning or coordination. 

On her last trip to Greece, which was made at the last minute so she could accompany our oldest daughter, I made her flight arrangements (burning my hard-earned airline miles) and I stayed home with our youngest. I took on an extra consulting gig to pay for her trip. Yet, I later discovered she sent a very sweet and sentimental email to the OM describing her experience in Greece and how it reminded her of their time together nearly 30 years before. What did I get? A couple of "I miss yous" speckled in with reminders about tutoring, soccer practices, and doctors appointments for our youngest. 

I do feel like she is remorseful and she seems to recognize that she still could lose me--which is prompting some positive changes in other areas of our relationship. I m struggling with my "nice guy" tendencies and am not sure I will completely control them (or, that I even want to). I do fear that after we get through the initial reactions to her EA we will slip back into old patterns of her discontent and my attempts to make it better, but always falling short. Mostly, as I look back I start to get more than a little resentful of how I feel things have gone (there's much more "water under the bridge" than I can post here, but let's just say I have put up with a lot myself over the past 27 years). That resentment has kinda surprised me and I think I will need to deal with it before I can completely move forward. 

I do have some hope, however. I have been through a short stint of individual counseling and may start up again. We have a nice family ski vacation planned for the week of Christmas, something we've both wanted to do for some time (yes, I planned it all). Just last week she suggested that we go to counseling together after the holidays.


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