# A financial Predicament



## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

So currently we have 2 houses, 1 rented the other we live in. For both houses she paid more deposit. Roughly 55/45 for the first and the second house 80/20. She's in real estate and made a good amount of commission (over 200k) in 1 year and subsequent years still good commission but not as much as when it was booming. Meanwhile my salary, ~100k is used for the mortgage, groceries, insurance, power .. basically everything else. Our income goes into separate accounts and we don't pool our money.

Since we don't pool, I can barely save and she's saving a lot. If I complain that she doesn't contribute she reminds me how much more deposit she paid and that I shouldn't make unnecessary purchases. Total BS as I haven't been buying any luxuries. I find this selfish and a separatist take on what should be a joint effort. It's like I'm playing catchup to equal her equity. She even complained that she paid more on a recent holiday. With over 10 times the amount of savings I have in the bank and I've spent over 80k in the last 3 years on mortgage repayments alone. How do I turn her thinking around to actually participate in paying these bills ?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well, more info is needed to know how to assess this.

How much did she put down on each house and what are your incomes?

Without that kind of info, all I can suggest is that you work up income/expense and asset/liabilities spread sheets that cover all the years you have been married. This will show you where the break even point is on her down payments on the house adn your outlays on expenses.

See, if you were married when you two bought the properties, then she has gifted you 50% of her down payments. So i get her wanting that equity back.

Until you have hit that break even point, she has a point.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Kiki123 said:


> So currently we have 2 houses, 1 rented the other we live in. For both houses she paid more deposit. Roughly 55/45 for the first and the second house 80/20. She's in real estate and made a good amount of commission (over 200k) in 1 year and subsequent years still good commission but not as much as when it was booming. Meanwhile my salary, ~100k is used for the mortgage, groceries, insurance, power .. basically everything else. Our income goes into separate accounts and we don't pool our money.
> 
> Since we don't pool, I can barely save and she's saving a lot. If I complain that she doesn't contribute she reminds me how much more deposit she paid and that I shouldn't make unnecessary purchases. Total BS as I haven't been buying any luxuries. I find this selfish and a separatist take on what should be a joint effort. It's like I'm playing catchup to equal her equity. She even complained that she paid more on a recent holiday. With over 10 times the amount of savings I have in the bank and I've spent over 80k in the last 3 years on mortgage repayments alone. How do I turn her thinking around to actually participate in paying these bills ?


When you sell the houses she can get her higher share of the down payment back from the equity.Do not spend any more of your income than her, percentage wise.In other words live according to your means and if the mortgage is higher than the rental income then inswist that you sell the house or else she pays you back your share and takes over the mortgage herself.Is she keeping a share of the income from the rental?
You need to make it clear that you refuse to end up broke every month while she has lots of disposable income and savings.If she insists on a fifty/fifty split on espenses then you have to lower your standard of living to match your disposable income,no expensive vacations etc unless she pays.
I am in the same situation except it’s me has the high income not my girlfriend and I wouldn’t even think about treating her the way your wife treats you.She seems to see you as the poor relation rather than an equal partner in this marriage and if you divorce,as it stands she will walk away with almost everything.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Are you married? Were you married when you purchased both homes? Is there any pre-nup or other legal contract?

If the first two answers are "yes", it likely makes no difference whether you pool monies or not in terms of who owns what. If you were to divorce, everything would just be split 50/50 by the court. But while you are together it makes things very complex and a major source of unnecessary conflict.

Since she makes so much more than you, she is exerting control over you with this arrangement.

Furthermore, there is no reason for you to be shouldering all the bills including paying all the mortgage. Assuming you two are married, what is the purpose of having separate finances? If you are not married, what is the agreement for ownership down the road?


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## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

Thor said:


> Are you married? Were you married when you purchased both homes? Is there any pre-nup or other legal contract?


Not married during the first purchase. But married during the second. No pre-nups.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

As an accountant, I am uncomfortable with your financial arrangements. It would behoove the two of you to sit down and hammer out a cost sharing agreement with agreed adjustments as your equity share in the two homes changes. This has to be formalized, and maintained on a regular basis. It will relieve pressure on the relationship and it eliminates the power struggle. The other elephant in the room is that, wonderful, she is in real estate, and right now things are coming back. It takes one market tumble to blow real estate and commissions out of the water. I do remember plenty of licensed realtors driving taxicabs during the last recession. Keep that one in mind as well. (Does not matter what area of the country, it happens everywhere)


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Community property state?


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## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

FalCod said:


> Community property state?


I'm sorry. Not from the US. Don't understand these terms.


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## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

Taxman said:


> As an accountant, I am uncomfortable with your financial arrangements. It would behoove the two of you to sit down and hammer out a cost sharing agreement with agreed adjustments as your equity share in the two homes changes. This has to be formalized, and maintained on a regular basis. It will relieve pressure on the relationship and it eliminates the power struggle. The other elephant in the room is that, wonderful, she is in real estate, and right now things are coming back. It takes one market tumble to blow real estate and commissions out of the water. I do remember plenty of licensed realtors driving taxicabs during the last recession. Keep that one in mind as well. (Does not matter what area of the country, it happens everywhere)


Great idea, as also mentioned by *EleGirl* our expense liabilities need to be drawn up on a speadsheet. I will get onto this, always helps to have sound advice from someone who crunches numbers for a living !


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Kiki123 said:


> I'm sorry. Not from the US. Don't understand these terms.


Where are you from?


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## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

MrsHolland said:


> Where are you from?


NZ


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I will never understand why people marry and then act as if they are still single financially. 
Even if you want separate accounts, you should still both be paying towards the living expenses. If you earn similar amounts, then the contribution needs to be the same. 

You are both still saying this is his/hers/mine, so not sure why you got married. When you marry everything becomes ours. We have always had a joint account. Whatever money that comes in belongs to both of us and all bills come out of that account.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Kiki123 said:


> I'm sorry. Not from the US. Don't understand these terms.


In the US, in a community property state, any money earned by a married couple is considered property of both of them, even if they keep separate accounts. Any assets that they had coming into the marriage are still theirs individually, but they can become community property if they aren't carefully kept as separate assets. 

For example, if I entered a marriage with two bank accounts valued at $100,000. I leave one alone and we never touch it. For the other, I put in $1,000 a month of my earnings and I spend $10,000 a year of that money on vacations. The first account stays my property and isn't considered an asset to be split if we divorce. The second account has been commingled. Even though I put in money from "my" earnings every year, those earnings are considered "our" earnings. The court assumes that I wanted to treat that account as a shared asset and it will be split when we divorce.

People usually address that issue with a prenuptial contract that stipulates how assets should be treated if there is a divorce. Most people with low assets don't bother to get one, but older couples that have accumulated assets, particular those with children from outside the marriage often do to make sure that their children don't lose their assets to a late-in-life spouse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kiki123 said:


> I'm sorry. Not from the US. Don't understand these terms.


How is marital and separate property handled in NZ? Knowing the laws would also help in giving you input.

In the USA, each state defines it's own marriage laws. Some states are community property and some are 'Equitable distribution'.

Community property 

Community Property Law concerns the distribution of property acquired by a couple during marriage in the event of the end of the marriage, whether by Divorce or death of one of the parties. In community property states all property accumulated by a husband and wife during their marriage becomes joint property even if it was originally acquired in the name of only one partner. The states that utilize a community property method of dividing resources were influenced by the Civil Law system of France, Spain, and Mexico.

Laws vary among the states that recognize community property; however, the basic idea is that a husband and wife each acquire a one-half interest in what is labeled community property. A determining factor in the classification of a particular asset as community property is the time of acquisition. Community property is ordinarily defined as everything the couple owns that is acquired during the marriage with the exception of separate property owned by either of them individually. 

Separate property is that property that each individual brings into the marriage, in addition to anything that either spouse acquires by inheritance during the marriage.

Generally, four types of property acquired after marriage amount to community property: earnings, damages obtained from a personal injury suit, damages awarded in an industrial accident action, and rents and profits from separate property.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kiki, you made no mention of divorce, yet everyone has pretty much jumped there in the responses. Here in the USA everything is generally considered equally owned by both spouses, so it doesn't matter who's name is on the title or bank account. From that standpoint then you can see that you have equal rights to all the income just as your wife has. She has no greater right to her income than you do (from a community property legal standpoint). Which means it is unfair to you that she is keeping you from accessing money.

In fact, this is one of the signs of significant abuse, when one spouse controls the other's access to money. While you do have your own income, she is requiring you to basically spend all of it on family expenses. Several of us have used the word "control" or "power", and I think it is accurate that she is using money as a way to control you.

What's going to happen in the future when she wants to go on a nice vacation, but you can't afford it? Looking ahead at children or grandchildren, she'll be able to afford to lavish them with gifts but you can't. What about retirement? What if she has enough savings to retire but you don't? Does she get to play while you keep working for another 10 or 20 years?

If your finances were joint, none of these issues would arise. Together you would look at your budget to decide if you can afford the car, the vacation, or to retire.

If this were a second marriage for you both or if there were significant assets owned individually, a pre-nup would have made sense, as would some form of protecting your assets which you brought into the marriage. However, once married all of the new finances should be considered equally owned and shared.

You could share the finances many different ways, but it all should be considered equally owned. The actual structure of joint vs individual accounts comes down to what works easiest in being sure all the bills get paid on time, keeping your spending under control, and saving adequately for the future. However, all the assets are equally owned and equally accessible to both spouses.

Some people put a proportional amount into paying the basic expenses, but otherwise keep separate finances. This is much more common in second marriages than first marriages. It is aimed at preserving your assets for your children from a first marriage.

If one spouse has ruinous behavior (spending out of control, substance abuse, gambling problems, etc), then separated finances can make sense.

What you describe sounds abusive and controlling. She's on a power trip with money. Now maybe there is some history we don't know about which has led to her wanting separate finances.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

It is unusual for a relationship to work well when the woman earns substantially more. This could either be because men take it badly (generally cited) or women resent it (which I think is also major).

If she does resent it, it would seem to go along with this financial arrangement. It is a perhaps sub-conscious feeling that he should nto be able to take advantage.


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## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

Great responses from some very informed people. In my country is it deemed if there has been a civil union, marriage or de-facto relationship for 3 or more years then relationship property is split 50/50. We have been living together for over 3 years, married for 2. However my goal here is to structure our finances as a married couple should. I have begun working on an expense liability spreadsheet. Best to get it all down on paper and know how much we have invested into this relationship. May take me a bit of time though.


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