# Marriage, Selfishness, and Sex



## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

Too many people allow their own personal wants and needs to take precedence over those of their spouse, and those of the marriage. We live in a society that values the rights of the individual above all else, and one of the consequences of this view is many broken marriages.

The thinking usually goes something like this …

My spouse is not giving me what I want in this marriage. If I am not getting what I want, then I cannot be happy. If they will not willingly give me what I want, then they are an obstacle to my happiness. Perhaps I should find someone else who will give me what I want, so that I can be happy.

So many of us fail to think of the marriage as being the priority, and think only about what we want for ourselves. We slip into a selfish mode of operation. We expect our spouse to provide us with all that we need to be happy. When they fail to do this, we become upset, and resentful, and we start trying force our own agenda forward. We criticize, and belittle, and try to change our spouse into what we want them to be. If time passes, and our spouse fails to get in line with our idea of what a marriage should be, then we contemplate divorce. We start to think that perhaps it is time to find someone else who is closer to what we want.

The problem is that many are not willing to take responsibility for their own happiness. They are not willing to compromise on what they want, or need from the marriage. People buy into the false promise that a happy marriage is one in which you can expect your every need to be met on demand. They failed to consider that perhaps some of their “needs” simply do not benefit the marriage as a whole and should be reconsidered.

Signs of selfishness in an unhappy marriage are best seen in the sex life.

For many women, sex is used as a tool for manipulating the behavior of their husband. If you give me what I want, I will give you sex in return. If you do not give me what I want, then you can keep your hands off of me. You have to make me happy if you expect me to make you happy.

For many men, sex is considered to be a duty that must be performed, regardless of whether their wife is interested or not. If you do not give it to me, right now, then you are being a bad wife. I need this in order to be happy. If you do not give it to me, then my unhappiness is your fault.

In marriages like these, sex is not the loving experience that it should be. It is just a commodity that is traded back and forth.

Sex should not be about self gratification. Love making should be a gift that you and your spouse give to each other. You want to give them a loving and pleasurable experience, and they want to do the same for you. Neither of you has a selfish agenda that you are trying to meet. It is simply the sharing of a deep loving bond between two people who are willing to put the needs of their loved one above their own.

It seems that many of us have forgotten what the true nature of sex is. It has stopped being an expression of mutual love and commitment and has instead become just another “thing” to acquire in life. 

Young feel that they must go out and collect sexual experiences in order to maintain their social status and their own self esteem. Guys who are not getting laid are considered to be losers. Quite often they do not have any feelings of love for the girls that they pursue. They just want the sex.

Young ladies know that the guys want sex, and they are under incredible pressure to provide it. They feel they have to use sex to get the boy. If they do not put out, they are shunned not only the boys, but by the girls that do put out. They are ridiculed for protecting their virginity, and they are left on the sidelines of fitting in.

I was in a local store recently, where there were two young ladies in front of me in line. They could not have been more than eleven years old, and they were buying condoms. The older lady behind the counter was in shock, as was I. She looked at them, and then looked at me. Neither of us had a clue what to say or do. She just sold these little girls the condoms, and watched them walk away.

Has the situation become so bad that even eleven year old girls are forced to use their bodies as a commodity in order to get the love that they need?

Has our society become so selfish and unloving that sex is truly nothing more than a bargaining tool? If you don’t make me happy, fill my needs, and behave the way I expect, I will cut you off from my love and affection. If you want sex from me, then you have to meet my needs first. If you do not give me sex when I want it, then I will blame you for my unhappiness.

Is that really what a marriage should be about? Is that what we had in mind when we got married?

There is nothing wrong with having wants and needs within a marriage. However, you cannot take the attitude that it is only YOUR needs that are important. You have to put your spouse’s needs on the same level as your own. You have to make a conscious decision to be a good spouse for them, and make it easy and attractive for them to do the same for you.

Something to consider ?


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## Dax (Jun 11, 2011)

Maybe those girls are in love with their boyfriends. At least they are using protection.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I've started to do all things out of Love, even when I don't want to.

I have been working on reducing my Ego so I am not always thinking "what about me?"

To my delight, my husband has reciprocated beautifully ... Do unto others, I guess


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Interesting post, but it implies that folks can choose to not have sexual needs. I, and lots of other guys would very happily switch off our sex drive if it was within our power to do so. You don't choose to be hungry or cold and folks can't just spontaneously choose to be asexual simply because it may be convenient for their spouse. 
If someone believes sex is burdensome and that marriage would "pressure" them to be intimate, they should join a softball league instead of a marriage. All too often, it's not just that gets denied but all manifestations of physical intimacy. 
No one needs to feel pressured to have sex. There is no law that says people have to be married. They can remain single and happily asexual. Just don't drag an innocent heterosexual into zombie land against their will. If I don't have an appetite, is it ok for me to starve my wife?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

RDJ said:


> Too many people allow their own personal wants and needs to take precedence over those of their spouse, and those of the marriage. We live in a society that values the rights of the individual above all else, and one of the consequences of this view is many broken marriages.
> 
> The thinking usually goes something like this …
> 
> ...


That sums up my x wife's theory when she asked for a divorce. Getting rid of me was going to make her happy because I wasn't giving her what she needed to be happy, although it wasn't sex for her, it was more emotional. I think if you depend on a person for happiness, one will be disappointed every time. I think you have to first be happy with yourself. I know that is cliche, but I understand it even more now that I'm divorced.

My life is a lot different than it was before the divorce, yet after the initial emotional devastation passed, I find that I am happy almost at a surprising level. I once had a nice house, for example, but i'm making the best of living in a much lesser home because i think i was happy with myself to begin with, and I'm not looking for someone else or thing to "make me happy." It's like the "inward" me is still the same. 

I view my emotional self as having different pieces, like a pizza. Sure, there is a slice that can be made unhappy with outward things like people's actions and material things, but it's only one slice, and my emotional self doesn't allow people to be in charge of my entire pizza; I like to be in charge of it. 

That attitude is good for me, but I'm not sure it was good for my marriage. I assumed she was that way too, but I guess she put me in charge of her entire happiness pizza and I didn't even know it and, therefore, didn't live up to her expectations of happiness.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

wifeofhusband said:


> After 20 years of marriage, where I've always put everyone's needs ahead of my own from the age of 17, I don't think it's wrong to start thinking about me a little. The first time I ask for something, which I was promised as part of the package of making a major personal sacrifice for him, he retracts it. Sorry, I'm through with 'doing all things in love' until he starts to do the same.


 I still think of me  And do things for myself. And I understand that you don't want to do all things in love, unless he does the same. Thankfully for me, mine does.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Isn't that the feminine mystique in a nutshell? Not to put too fine a point on it but little girls are programmed to be a little bit selfish and capricious. Even if every stereotype was only 5% true it would still be there.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

My wife doesn't always blow my skirt up. Do I quit buying groceries and feeding her? My kids sometimes get on my nerves. I still feed and clothe them. If a spouse is unhappy, they can use their words and vocalize their unhappiness. Playing divorced-in-place while continuing to consume the benefits of marriage is dirty pool. If she's too angry to be a wife she can either take measure to fix things or she can initiate divorce proceedings for real. Why have I not seen any posts from spouses who are too angry or depressed to spend their mates' paychecks?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

wifeofhusband said:


> Well, you know, we have had the perfect marriage with no conflict at all for 20 years. It's only in recent times there's been any issue at all. He's happy, I'm not. He knows why. I feel like to have autonomy and be a person, I have to work against him all the time. We've talked about what I would do at this stage of my life for our whole marriage. I was promised it as part of a huge concession to him on my part and now, he isn't supporting me. I feel betrayed, abandoned. He's been given openings to fix it and to support me. He's not coming to the party. He seems to be blind. I am done trying. I still love him which makes it hurt. But I'm taking the children to the beach this afternoon and all he's getting is, "We're heading out. See you later." Normally I'd invite him to join us. I've told him how much damage he's doing. I can't change him, I can only change myself and I am. I am angry and he's got some work to do to heal that. Like a lot of women in their late 30s, I am realizing that I matter too and standing up for myself finally.


Was it really perfect then for 20 years?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

wifeofhusband said:


> Well, you know, we have had the perfect marriage with no conflict at all for 20 years. It's only in recent times there's been any issue at all. He's happy, I'm not. He knows why. I feel like to have autonomy and be a person, I have to work against him all the time. We've talked about what I would do at this stage of my life for our whole marriage. I was promised it as part of a huge concession to him on my part and now, he isn't supporting me. I feel betrayed, abandoned. He's been given openings to fix it and to support me. He's not coming to the party. He seems to be blind. I am done trying. I still love him which makes it hurt. But I'm taking the children to the beach this afternoon and all he's getting is, "We're heading out. See you later." Normally I'd invite him to join us. I've told him how much damage he's doing. I can't change him, I can only change myself and I am. I am angry and he's got some work to do to heal that. Like a lot of women in their late 30s, I am realizing that I matter too and standing up for myself finally.


You say you had no conflict for 20 years. That sounds like m situation. We had no issues that amounted to a hill of beans for 18 years. Then all at once, she let me know she was unhappy and that I just didn't meet her needs for happiness anymore. In my view, however, she re-wrote history a bit and came up with all kinds of things that she hadn't been pleased with for several years. I've learned here that that's called "suffering in silence," but to me, it was sudden.

has your current situation caused you to see things you haven't been happy with for years, or did the problems truly hit after 20 years?


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

> Interesting post





O.K. I could have just said “we reap what we sow, or give what you wish to receive” But that would not have been very creative. :biggrinangelA:


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

wifeofhusband said:


> It was actually. Up till recently we've been like perfectly matched soul mates.
> 
> From what I gather, this is a pretty common place for women to get to in their late 30s.


Interesting! My x wife is in her late 30s. I don't know what your issues are, but after 18 years of a good marriage, I considered my wife's reasons lame. There were no major issues that make you raise your eyebrow when you hear of divorce; there was no cheating, abuse, or financial problems. To make a long story short, i apparently just got boring and she needed more.

It wasn't even something that took much time. The first i heard about it was around late August, and she filed and we were divorced by December!

I continue to wonder if she will regret her decision at some point. I'm not a bad guy at all. I apparently just wasn't what she needed in her late 30s.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

wifeofhusband,

So, you will continue to enjoy "our" money but it will be "your" decision for your husband be celibate? What is he getting out of this relationship?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

wifeofhusband said:


> No, we've been great for 20 years. The only issue in our marriage has been his anxiety disorder which has caused ups and downs but I've supported him through those hiccups and got through it. That wasn't a marriage difficulty though, more a personal difficulty that required some attention from time to time. It never stressed our relationship.
> 
> The current issue is over something very specific. My husband has the keys to rectifying it, and it would be very easily rectified at this stage. If he doesn't, it will be a defining thing in terms of what boundaries I work with going forward.


Are you sure he knows how strongly you feel about this? It sounds like he does, but one of the problems with my marriage was that my x didn't express the seriousness of the situation. She might have said things, but saying things and making it known how serious it is to you is two different things.

I'll give you one of our examples. We were a laid back couple who never vacationed much for 15 years or so. We started taking trips in the last few years, but I'm just not a big vacation person. I didn't show much enthusiasm for our last vacation and basically just stayed around the hotel room a lot; however, her entire family came along, so she was out running around with them. She said i ruined it. 

Ok, I knew she wasn't overjoyed with my behavior on low participation, but I didn't realize that not participating in vacation could help drive someone to divorce after 18 years of marriage. So, did I know she wasn't overjoyed with me? Yes. Did I realize it was so serious it could cause a divorce? No, No, No. She didn't communicate the seriousness of it, and that isn't usually something that is on the top ten causes of divorce, so i had no idea.

This is just one example of her complaints. There are other things, but they are all in the same category and none more serious.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

That's why I waited to get married until my 30s. People said I was "gettin' up there! Better marry quick!" lol. I just passed up the 1st marriage that everyone in my family has in their 20s.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

All love is selfish, except a love between a parent and a child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> My wife doesn't always blow my skirt up. Do I quit buying groceries and feeding her? My kids sometimes get on my nerves. I still feed and clothe them. If a spouse is unhappy, they can use their words and vocalize their unhappiness. Playing divorced-in-place while continuing to consume the benefits of marriage is dirty pool. If she's too angry to be a wife she can either take measure to fix things or she can initiate divorce proceedings for real. Why have I not seen any posts from spouses who are too angry or depressed to spend their mates' paychecks?


:iagree::lol::iagree::rofl::iagree::lol:

Yea, no doubt!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

wifeofhusband said:


> southbound - I think he must realize how serious this is. I've done my best to communicate this to him. I don't know how much else I can say about it and don't want to cross into nagging. You offer good food for thought though and maybe I need to just say, "Do you realize how serious this is?" All he'll probably say is, "Yes but I don't know what to do" and continue in passivity.


Try it, please. Even if you have told or asked him about the situation a thousand times in tears even, if you haven't come right out and said, "Ok, this is SERIOUS TO ME!!!! It may seem like a small thing to you, but it is very serious to me and could cause very serious problems in our marriage if it isn't addressed, even divorce!!! Seriously!!!!!" 

That may seem crazy, but sometimes it takes more to get some people's true attention than you might think. He may be viewing it as a mild thunderstorm, but you see it as a huge hurricane. Maybe he takes it for granted that you would never divorce him after so long, I sure did. And I don't mean that I took it for granted in an egotistical way, I just thought that after 18 years the marital glue was rock solid; I discovered i was wrong.


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## NoIssues (Oct 9, 2011)

I mostly agree with the OP. 

Id like to add what drives me absolutely nuts is the resentment that the bitter spouse didnt get what they believe they should get or are entitlted to without the willingness to look at their responsibility for creating that by participating in the holdout or the willingness to RESTORE their end of the marriage FIRST. 

Restoring their end of the marriage causes improvement in the other. Its not immediate but it does happen if its done correctly. It becomes a foundation to rebuild on. 

Instead you get endless whining about how their spouse wont offer what they need so they wont go first. Its treated like a bad investment decision. Thats the end of the marriage. 

You must have faith, that if you crack the code of what your spouse needs, you will get your needs fulfilled as well but you must go FIRST to get them.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

NoIssues said:


> I mostly agree with the OP.
> 
> Id like to add what drives me absolutely nuts is the resentment that the bitter spouse didnt get what they believe they should get or are entitlted to without the willingness to look at their responsibility for creating that by participating in the holdout or the willingness to RESTORE their end of the marriage FIRST.
> 
> ...


Sad, but so often true!


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## Michelle27 (Nov 8, 2010)

NoIssues said:


> I mostly agree with the OP.
> 
> Id like to add what drives me absolutely nuts is the resentment that the bitter spouse didnt get what they believe they should get or are entitlted to without the willingness to look at their responsibility for creating that by participating in the holdout or the willingness to RESTORE their end of the marriage FIRST.
> 
> ...


This has been the case in my marriage for years, unfortunately. I have to take responsibility for my end, but up until this past few weeks, my husband didn't take responsibility for his end, which yes, caused me to build up huge resentments. Through this, he still got sex, but I don't think I was really ever "there" the way he wanted me to be. And he kept telling me that I needed to "give" him what he needed and I would be able to give me what I needed (which was an end to the anger explosions as a result of his depression...which I knew weren't totally in his control, but refusing to deal with the depression which was situational was most definitely in his control). 

Something changed this month, though...we're both working very hard on dealing with our own ends of the marriage, and voila...good sex for both us.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

wifeofhusband said:


> After your post yesterday I did decide to ask him if he knew how serious it was. After making it clear to him he was silent until this morning but we have spent a good amount of time talking this morning and seem to have sorted this out. Now to get back on track ...


wifeofhusband,

Thats nice to hear. I wish you the best of luck moving forward.


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## NoIssues (Oct 9, 2011)

Michelle27 said:


> Something changed this month, though...we're both working very hard on dealing with our own ends of the marriage, and voila...good sex for both us.


Congratulastions on your break through. Very happy for you both. 

The book I highly recommend for depression is "Feeling Good" its a classic. 

Also for depression, learn all you can about cognitive distortion. Google is an excellent resource for that. 

Best wishes


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## NoIssues (Oct 9, 2011)

Michelle27 said:


> Something changed this month, though...we're both working very hard on dealing with our own ends of the marriage, and voila...good sex for both us.


Congratulations on your break through. Very happy for you both. 

The book I highly recommend for depression is "Feeling Good" its a classic. 

Also for depression, learn all you can about cognitive distortion. Google is an excellent resource for that. 

Best wishes


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

wifeofhusband said:


> After your post yesterday I did decide to ask him if he knew how serious it was. After making it clear to him he was silent until this morning but we have spent a good amount of time talking this morning and seem to have sorted this out. Now to get back on track ...


Great!! I'm glad to hear it helped and that things are looking better for you two. I've been on this board for about a year seeking advice, but felt too much loss to give advice. My advice came from experience. 

I would advise any woman who thinks her husband isn't taking it seriously, just say it plain and simple. cause an earthquake if that's what it takes to get his attention. Sometimes us guys can be a little thick headed.


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