# What is going on here?



## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

I am looking for a place to talk with mature people that have had similar experiences in life, so I’m hoping you all can provide some thoughts and insights on my situation.

I am almost 40, 3 teenage kids, divorced 1 year/separated 3.5yrs, struggling in a long term relationship.

I was married 15 years in an 18 year relationship. Long term relationships are all I’ve ever known. 
The relationship that I am currently in, first and only one since separation, has been on/off for a couple of years now and I am struggling with one, staying in a relationship that is not mutually fulfilling, and two, leaving the relationship because I am afraid of making the wrong decision or being hasty, irrational etc etc.

I have spent more time crying over this relationship in the last year than I have ever cried about anyone in my entire life. It may be possible that I am grieving both the loss of my marriage and what feels like the loss of this relationship as well, I’m just not sure. 

I feel that my partner is emotionally unavailable, thus making himself physically unavailable too, and I am just beside myself with internal conflict. It doesn’t matter what I say, how I say it, what I do, I feel like this man just can’t be bothered with me. He says this is untrue but his actions do not match his words. He says that he loves me, but dismisses or blatantly ignores me when I try telling him how I feel. 
There have been some issues with trust in the past, and he still plays the “you don’t trust me” card, and while he is right, it’s not in the way that he implies...I don’t think he’ll cheat on me, but I don’t trust him to take care of my heart or our relationship. He’s made some selfish choices that haven’t been good for us, he is irresponsible with his finances, and does not act in a way that demonstrates respect and integrity. At work, he’s amazing. Personally life, so not much.

So the quick and easy solution is just move on, you deserve better, he doesn’t deserve you, let it go...

I just don’t know how to do this, or if it’s the right thing to do. 

I’ll pause there and hope for some initial thoughts. If you have questions, please ask and I’ll do my best to answer. Thank you.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

So we have a whole bunch of reasons why this guy isn't a good boyfriend, other than he's good at his job, are there any reasons he's a good boyfriend? 

If not, it seems simple.


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Well, lol, there are reasons that I fell in love with him to begin with...
He used to make me feel so special. I never had to wonder how he was feeling because he always made sure I knew. He was always thoughtful, in ways that I had never experienced before, he is appreciative of the smaller things in life. He makes me laugh, we enjoy each other’s company (although I feel like maybe I enjoy his moreso), we used to share something really special...

We made the decision to move in together, which lasted not quite a year. I was so committed to him and to blending our families the “healthy” way and at every turn I was met with that very fine line of division, the one that constantly reminded me that it was him and his kids first, and my kids and I second. We argued all the time. I would try to sit down and resolve conflict, he would get defensive and blaming, and it never ended with resolution at all. 
I found out last summer that he took his kids to look at another place to live and when I asked him, he lied and said he didn’t. But I knew for a fact that he had and when confronted with it, he said it didn’t mean anything. I packed my kids up and moved on our own.

Since then, we’ve gone days, weeks, sometimes a month at a time without talking at all. I miss him so much. I miss the companionship that we had, having my supposed best friend and partner here. It breaks my heart. 
But at the same time, I’ve tried. I’ve tried all that I know how to do. I am really struggling with letting go. 
Each time there is no communication, I cry, stay in bed, grieve some more and then day by day, I get better...and then he shows up, tugs at my heart strings, and lather rinse repeat.

The main argument is that I don’t know where I stand with him anymore. You live with someone and think you know them, know their intentions and just like that, maybe I don’t. It’s very unsettling. 
I want to spend time with him, but more and more I feel like I want this more than he does. And when I ask him about it, give him an opportunity to be honest with me, he shuts down and avoids me, or he’s just impossible to communicate with, it’s his feelings and that’s all that matters.


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

I’ve tried explaining to him how serious this is, our relationship has fallen apart here. We were trying to rebuild, but that takes 2 people and when one person makes choices that are not good for the relationship, how can you build anything?

But when I tell him this, he tells me to go ahead and run, like I usually do (I’m not a runner). He says that no matter what he does, the relationship is over according to me. Nothing is ever good enough.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

You just have to realize that this is just not THE guy for you. 

He cannot, for whatever reason, give you what you need. 

It's time to move on. Call it done. If/when he calls, just tell him that. He can say what he wants about it...but in the end, if he is not part of the solution....


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

He lied to you.

He stonewalls conversations you wish to have.

He is not as emotionally invested in the relationship.

You feel he places himself and his kids ahead of you.

And you want to hang onto this lousy relationship because ?????


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

And, P.S. ... WHAT is going on here is you are clinging to a go-nowhere dead-end relationship with a man who is not in it with you for the long haul.

Loving a relationship's potential is a far cry from the reality with which you are faced.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If you are not 100% totally sold on him, then the relationship is never going to be solvent!

Best to move on!*


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Ok so...how do I do that?

You guys, I am not good at letting go and moving on. I stay in relationships long passed the expiry date. When I finally left my marriage, I was numb. 
It took me years of being lied to, cheated on, and lied to some more and having it affect my children, to finally say enough is enough and walk away. It’s been a volatile battle ever since. My kids have suffered, I have suffered and it’s been awful. 

I don’t walk away easily. I don’t let go easily. And apparently, I don’t move on easily either. 
How do I do this? 
I assume that all of you have been in a relationship/marriage or two, when you love someone, how do you just walk away? Or how can you speed up the enough is enough process? I don’t want to hurt anymore.


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> He lied to you.
> 
> He stonewalls conversations you wish to have.
> 
> ...


Wow. This was an “aha” for me. Stonewalling...I had to look that up and see what it was. This is exactly what he does and the rest of the information that went along with it is also very interesting. Thank you.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

But you don't love HIM. You just love the IDEA of him and you the way it used to be or the way you wish it was. He is not meeting your needs. Nor is he trying to. 

How do you leave him? You just DO. IT. It is deceptively simple. 

You can go weeks without talking and then he has the temerity to say you're a runner? Huh? How do you get back in touch after weeks? If you are contacting him, stop it. If you are responding when he contacts you, stop it.

What I would do, personally, is put up a profile on some dating sites and start communicating with new people. You may or may not meet anyone but it will give you something to think about other than him.

He does not care about you they way you want to care about him, and therefore, he is useless to you in the long run because ultimately, if he does not care about you and your feelings and your pain and lonliness, what difference does it make how much you "love" him? You will not be happy. Draw an arrow pointing to him and write "This way lies PAIN." above it.

And don't be surprised AT ALL if once you sincerely stop thinking and caring about him if he doesn't come crawling back. If you take him back - expect to rinse and repeat.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mylifeunravelled said:


> ... I am not good at letting go and moving on. I stay in relationships long passed the expiry date. It took me years of being lied to, cheated on, and lied to some more and *having it affect my children*, to finally say enough is enough and walk away. It’s been a volatile battle ever since. *My kids have suffered*, I have suffered and it’s been awful.
> 
> I don’t walk away easily. I don’t let go easily. And apparently, I don’t move on easily either.


I'm sorry but I have to come down hard on you. If you want to screw up your life with what sounds like a MAJOR case of codependency and lack of any self-esteem, fine. Your life. Your choice.

But you are screwing with the well-being of your kids. I call SELFISH on this. I don't give a crap how "hard" it is for you to let go of crappy relationships. That's your problem and for you to own. But you are responsible for seeing to it that your kids are brought up in the healthiest environment you can furnish. I'd suggest you put on a pair of big girl panties, stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop acting out whatever-it-is-you-lack-or-need in lousy relationships, and put your kids first.

Because, lady, you sure as hell haven't been putting them first. Not by a long shot. Quit being so damned self-absorbed in misery of your own making. Stop chasing after what if's. What is, is this: You have to be a responsible, level headed adult who sets a good example for her children.

As it is, your kids are likely to jump into crappy relationships like the ones you've had. After all, they follow by example,, don't they? 

SERIOUSLY.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Look, I am not saying that it is easy. But you have to get out of this situation. 

I have been where you are at, but when it is not working, it has to end. 

Did he do a bait and switch, maybe, but does it really matter. You are throwing good money after bad.

In a health relationship, you don't feel the way that you do. You need to get some therapy I think. Are you codependent, maybe? Do you have some sort of abandonment issue, maybe? What ever it is, you have to figure it out. 

But one thing you need to recognize: YOU DESERVE TO BE HAPPY. Get that? You deserve to be happy. Something in you make you think that you don't matter. If this relationship does not work out, you are a failure, have you thought that? Lots of people do. 

No, you deserve to be happy. You need to repeat that to yourself. 

Listen, at our age, we can't stay in relationships that don't make us happy. I have broken up with several women that I have loved for one reason or another. But the main reason was I was not happy. 

That is where you have to get. It is OK to make yourself happy. You deserve that, and you need to repeat it to yourself until you start to believe it...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

mylifeunravelled said:


> I just don’t know how to do this, or if it’s the right thing to do.


I'm not sure what you mean about not knowing how to dump this guy. It's actually pretty easy to dump someone who doesn't live with you, acts like he's doing you a huge favor when he _does_ come around, can't be bothered touching you or showing you any affection, and pretty much treats you like you're his distant second cousin.


Now I'm not a math whiz or anything, but even I can see that the cons far outweigh the NON-EXISTENT pros in this equation.


Stop wasting your time. Life is too short to waste it on losers.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Block him on your phone. Find something else to obsess about besides a guy who strings you along and tries to manipulate you.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

mylifeunravelled said:


> Ok so...how do I do that?
> 
> You guys, I am not good at letting go and moving on. I stay in relationships long passed the expiry date. When I finally left my marriage, I was numb.
> It took me years of being lied to, cheated on, and lied to some more and having it affect my children, to finally say enough is enough and walk away. It’s been a volatile battle ever since. My kids have suffered, I have suffered and it’s been awful.
> ...


You seem to use your tenacity to stay in unhealthy relationships, why not use that same tenacity to make yourself happy? I think this guy is playing you a bit, he's keeping you hanging on by making you feel guilty. Ending a bad relationship isn't running away like a quitter, it's being strong enough to say this isn't working and I want something better.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

You describe this relationship as "long term" but you've only been divorced for a year. So, clearly, you were dating this guy throughout much of your separation (hopefully not before). You describe your marriage as pretty awful, and yet you stayed. Your current relationship is not only bad, but really only partially in existence, and yet you're staying. What all of that says to me is that you have real trouble being alone. To a degree that's causing you to make poor life choices and remain in up-and-down relationships that are harming your children. That's not okay. 

OP, I really think you need to work with a qualified therapist on building healthy self-esteem, setting healthy boundaries, and eliminating your co-dependence issues. You need to figure out how to be happy and emotionally healthy alone. After that, you can decide if you want to add another really great person to your already awesome life. And stop clinging to not-great people out of a desperate fear of being alone. You - and your children - will be better for it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

As @Cooper astutely pointed out, you have an unhealthy attachment to poor relationships. Since you now know this, and can't seem to break the pattern on your own, perhaps some counseling will help you overcome this barrier. IMO, you need to actively date a variety of people, and not fixate or settle for one until you deal with this issue, and have wider dating experience to help you choose someone who will actually be good for you in the long run. That means someone as devoted and dedicated to you as you would be to them. Right now you don't have a basis for making good choices - so don't choose anyone for now!


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Thank you, all of you. You’re all right and deep down inside I know all of this. 
I have not dated, so I have zero experience with a variety of people. This is true.

I have been working with counsellors since 2010, mostly surrounding my marriage and separation. I have also worked with a counsellor throughout the duration of this current relationship too. They listen to me talk about my feelings, ask a few questions, and listen to me talk some more. Don’t look back is the advice of one, keep a gratitude journal is the advice of the other...both good advice but not what I need to get me through this.

I have been taught to second guess myself all the time, I am afraid of making wrong decisions. Not an excuse but a part of me. 

I need a support system, I can’t do this on my own. I am scared to be alone...not because I’m afraid to be by myself but because I haven’t learned to trust myself yet. If that makes any sense.

I am going to get my belongings tonight after supper, when I know he won’t be home. After that, I will be blocking him. 
This is hard. For the best, but hard.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Per Steve Martin, this is how you break up with someone. You say, "I break with thee. I break with thee. I break with thee." And then you throw dog poop on their shoes. 


Pretty simple huh.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

OK so now that we got the mechanics of how to break up out of the way, let's talk about some of the deeper issues. 

Somehow you haven't fully developed as an individual being yet and deep down you feel that you are somehow inadequate as an individual and that you must be coupled with someone else in order to be a complete being. 

You are also under the delusion that if the relationship you are in at the time fails, that you will live a life of destitution and pathos and will die alone and pennyless in some one-room skid row apartment with your cats eating your lifeless corpse. 

STOP THAT!!!

You are a full grown, single woman. Your kids are sub-adults. You are able to go anywhere and do anything that you want provided it is not illegal or fattening. 

So why do you feel that you are some kind of enslaved prisoner that doesn't have any agency????

That is the million dollar question. 

I would be tempted to advise you to seek professional counseling/therapy, but you have spent the better part of a decade doing that and if the best advice you have been given thus far is to keep a "gratitude journal" (what in the sweet chocolate Christ is a gratitude journal???????? :-O ) then I'm not sure I see the value. 

Perhaps what you really need is simply a wise old grandmother or a crusty old aunt to swat you upside the head and tell you to get over yourself and pull your head out of your backside and get out and get on the stick. 

I think a key point of differentiation here is - do you have a job that puts a safe roof over your head and healthy food on the table? Do you manage to get to work, dress yourself appropriately, pay your bills on time and keep the kids healthy and out of trouble on your own?

If the answer to that is no, then you probably do need some kind of professional guidance and therapy to become more functional as an adult........but I would find someone other that the journal counselor. 

But if you are able to function well enough to do those things independently, then I think you just need a bit of a swat on the tush and the will to get out and get the job done and do what you know needs to be done even though it is a bit scary and not all that comfortable at times.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

mylifeunravelled said:


> I have been taught to second guess myself all the time, I am afraid of making wrong decisions. Not an excuse but a part of me.
> 
> I am scared to be alone...not because I’m afraid to be by myself but because I haven’t learned to trust myself yet. If that makes any sense.
> 
> .


I think I can help you with this. 

When you need to make a decision whether it is for coffee or tea, or for making a major investment or life change - ask yourself these questions -

- is it safe?

in other words is there physical danger or harm associated with it? If you want to shingle the roof, but it's winter and the roof is covered in snow and ice, that may not be the safest choice at that time. 

- Is it legal?

If it will land you in jail or afoul with the law or court system, probably not a wise move. 

- is it moral/ethical?

Sometimes people stumble on this one a bit and worry if they are doing the right thing or not. But a good guage of ethics is whether the action is being intentionally done to hurt someone or not. Somethings may cause another person distress, but if it is being done to save yourself or an innocent 3rd party, that is different. If I walk up to someone on the street that is posing no danger to me or anyone else and I shoot them for no reason - not ethical. But if someone breaks into my house wearing a hockey mask and carrying a chainsaw and is trying to carry the kids out of the house and I shoot him -ethical. 


If something is safe, legal and ethical, it's really not wrong and no puppies or starving children in Africa will be harmed by it. 

If we do our due diligence in gathering facts and making choices based on the info we have at the time and don't do it for the soul purpose of hurting someone, there really is no wrong decision. 

We all live with our choices and reap the benefits and live with the consequences. 

If you choose between med school and law school and you choose med school - you reap the benefits of being a doctor but live with the consequences of not being a lawyer. 

(there are people that have been to both and they make bagillions of dollars a day doing malpractice suits but their consequences are they didn't get out of school until they were about 40 years old)


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In the end it is all a confidence and self esteem issue. 

You don't get confidence and self esteem by laying on a shrinks couch and spilling all your insecure feelings and having them tell you how great you are and having them tell you that you can do it. 

You get confidence and esteem by getting out in the real world and doing things. 

Some things that you do will result in success which will build your self esteem. 

Some of the things you do will get you kicked in the teeth, but the next morning you will realize you are still alive and breathing and that life will go on. That will give you strength. 

And both having successes as well as surviving storms and hardships will give you confidence in yourself as an individual.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

mylifeunravelled said:


> I have been working with counsellors since 2010, mostly surrounding my marriage and separation. I have also worked with a counsellor throughout the duration of this current relationship too. They listen to me talk about my feelings, ask a few questions, and listen to me talk some more. Don’t look back is the advice of one, keep a gratitude journal is the advice of the other...both good advice but not what I need to get me through this.


What you need, then, is not another therapist but a competent and qualified therapist. Look for someone who offers CBT or another type of active therapy. It's clear that the sort of passive counseling you've been doing isn't accomplishing much for you. Find a therapist who can work with you on building self-esteem, setting healthy boundaries, and eliminating co-dependence. There should be assignments to complete between sessions and various tools for you to practice using in your daily life. Just spending an hour every so often talking about how you feel won't do nearly as much for you as taking active steps to change the way you think.


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

I would consider myself competent lol. I am educated, finished 2 degrees while divorcing, and I have a career that I’ve worked hard for, am very proud of, and I love it. I’ve done a good job with respect to that. I was strong and focused.

From the outside, all appears to be in order. On the inside, not so much.

I have looked into another therapist. I live in a small city, with limited resources, so I’m hoping that I can find someone.

Has anyone ever tried and had success with online therapy?


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Why do you need another therapist? There is nothing wrong here. Every thing is in order, inside and out. You are at the point where you know this one is not your forever. So be it. Some times things work out, sometimes they do not.

Accept things as they are. Let this one go, and wish him well. Take your time with your next. Your second life and love can be better than your first, if you choose wisely. Part of choosing wisely, is making the decision to say no. Just send him a text. You do not need a therapist to do that.

Embrace your future as the ability to do all the things you wanted to do. To love and be loved the way you want to. You bring a lot to the table, so move forward with your heart open, but your brain on alert. The possibility to live happily ever after, is within YOUR control.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

mylifeunravelled said:


> Ok so...how do I do that?
> 
> You guys, I am not good at letting go and moving on. I stay in relationships long passed the expiry date. When I finally left my marriage, I was numb.
> It took me years of being lied to, cheated on, and lied to some more and having it affect my children, to finally say enough is enough and walk away. It’s been a volatile battle ever since. My kids have suffered, I have suffered and it’s been awful.
> ...


you just freaking do it! you put YOURSELF first! you deserve to be treated like a queen. So, act like it! If they can't do it then tell them to eff off. Seriously! 
Are you in IC? You may need some self esteem work. Just put one foot in front of the other and walk away!!

do the hard things you know you must do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mylifeunravelled said:


> I am looking for a place to talk with mature people that have had similar experiences in life, so I’m hoping you all can provide some thoughts and insights on my situation.
> 
> I am almost 40, 3 teenage kids, divorced 1 year/separated 3.5yrs, struggling in a long term relationship.
> 
> ...


You are probably grieving both relationships, which makes this doubly hard. This is why it's best to heal from one relationship before entering another.



mylifeunravelled said:


> I feel that my partner is emotionally unavailable, thus making himself physically unavailable too, and I am just beside myself with internal conflict. It doesn’t matter what I say, how I say it, what I do, I feel like this man just can’t be bothered with me. He says this is untrue but *his actions do not match his words*. He says that he loves me, but dismisses or blatantly ignores me when I try telling him how I feel.
> 
> There have been some issues with trust in the past, and he still plays the “you don’t trust me” card, and while he is right, it’s not in the way that he implies...I don’t think he’ll cheat on me, but I don’t trust him to take care of my heart or our relationship. He’s made some selfish choices that haven’t been good for us, he is irresponsible with his finances, and does not act in a way that demonstrates respect and integrity. At work, he’s amazing. Personally life, so not much.
> 
> ...


Always believe actions over words. He pushes you away in action but reals you back with words when he wants you around. He's playing with you.

The reason that you hang on is that you have not taken the steps you need to take to protect yourself. You have 100% control over this. Just end all contact with him. 

Then focus on yourself and your children. Make a list of all the things that you need to do for yourself... do you work out regularly? If not start doing that. Do you have friends that you do things with? Start planning social outings with friends. Join meetup.com and find things to do in your area. Some will be for you and your children to do together. Some will be things that just you do. This is not a dating site, it's a site for finding activities that you can enjoy doing and where you can meet people with similar interests.

Get a life basically. If you do this, you will soon forget this guy.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

I'm sorry this is so hard for you, but life will go on. Take the energy you put into second-guessing yourself and instead put it into making your life better.

In this case you really didn't have a decision to make, he checked out.

Good luck.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

mylifeunravelled said:


> I would consider myself competent lol. I am educated, finished 2 degrees while divorcing, and I have a career that I’ve worked hard for, am very proud of, and I love it. I’ve done a good job with respect to that. I was strong and focused.
> 
> From the outside, all appears to be in order. On the inside, not so much.
> 
> ...



Truthfully I think all this therapy is only costing you money. You obviously are intelligent and know how to accomplish goals and manage your life. 

Your marriage whacked out your happiness meter, you stayed because you felt obligated. When you are invested in a marriage, have kids, house, etc. it's hard to walk away the instant things go bad, most people spend years in unhappy marriages because they think you shouldn't give up, it's not right to quit. 

But once you are divorced and dating you need to adopt a different philosophy, you do NOT need to put up with anyones crap! You are in the perfect position to toss happiness suckers right out of your life, honest to gosh it's that easy. You don't need to be in a relationship, you are an independent and capable adult in the perfect position to direct your life where you want. When it comes to relationships always chose happiness, if it isn't making you feel good then it's not right, don't be afraid to say so.


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Thank you all. I appreciate everyone’s support and honesty.

I went and saw my counsellor last night, and yes, it’s only costing me money and for what? We talked about what I already know. Not helpful.

This is difficult, but I’ve made it moreso than it needs to be by staying and returning, repeating the cycle.
I can have no contact with him, but the minute he contacts me, I’ve had a habit of letting him back in. And I know better!
This time needs to be different. 

The feeling of terror surprises and confuses me - I wake up in the night with panic, sometimes I have a wave of panic wash over me and it feels really scary. 
Why does this happen?

I have done so much reading/research on trying to understand myself better, but these feels of fear and panic surprise me.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mylifeunravelled said:


> The feeling of terror surprises and confuses me - I wake up in the night with panic, sometimes I have a wave of panic wash over me and it feels really scary.
> Why does this happen?


Have you ever discussed these feelings with one of your counselors? I'm not a counselor, but it sounds to me like you have some abandonment issues. This is where good counseling could help. However, it sounds like you have either been going to crummy counselors for years or haven't dug deep enough to figure out what is ultimately triggering such a response.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

mylifeunravelled said:


> The feeling of terror surprises and confuses me - I wake up in the night with panic, sometimes I have a wave of panic wash over me and it feels really scary.
> Why does this happen?
> 
> I have done so much reading/research on trying to understand myself better, but these feels of fear and panic surprise me.


Hey OP, I used to suffer from panic attacks when I woke up at night without my partner. Scared the crap out of me and was almost impossible to go back to sleep after.

They're completely gone now. I was able to figure out the root of the problem with my counselor and she provided me with a few tools to help myself "attack" the anxiety when it happened. I echo an earlier poster in suggesting that you consider a CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) psychologist to help you sort through your issues. There is less focus on talking, and more on figuring out the source of a problem and implementing a structured approach to resolving it.

In the absence of a counselor, you can start figuring out what's driving those middle of the night feels by being brutally honest (with yourself about what you're experiencing) and aware of everything you're thinking/feeling. When it happens, focus on following the thoughts and peeling their layers back (if possible). Instead of freaking out when it happens, try to be calm and just observe the physical/emotional symptoms as they wash over you. That way you can be more objective about what's happening to you and the underlying thoughts running in the background that can give you a clue about why you're experiencing the panic.

I was able to trace my panic attacks all the way back to feelings of abandonment during childhood.


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Keke24 said:


> mylifeunravelled said:
> 
> 
> > The feeling of terror surprises and confuses me - I wake up in the night with panic, sometimes I have a wave of panic wash over me and it feels really scary.
> ...


When I started the journey of separation and divorce, before even leaving my marriage, I really started to take a closer look at myself and I am trying to get a better understanding of what makes me me and why I think and feel the way I do sometimes - in an effort to learn about my roles in relationships and really just to better myself.

One common core theme is all of my relationships is that I don’t matter, I am not important enough, and expressing my feelings makes me difficult and unloveable, leaving me feeling rejected and abandoned. This is an ongoing theme for me.

In my current relationship, it is the cause of all of our argument...I express that I am feeling like I don’t matter, ask what we can do about it, get either a dismissive response or ignored/dismisses altogther, leaving me feeling abandoned. Every. Single. Time.

Sometimes the anxiety is unbearable and down right scary. Sometimes I can calm myself down, other times I take some for anxiety. 

Tonight will be especially hard, my kids leave to go to their dads and I will be alone with my feelings...I’ll get used to it and it will get better, but weekends without kids are rough for me. I am going to try to keep busy - I’ve got a ton of school work to do, and I think I’ll spend some time at Starbucks (it’s close by) just so I’m out of the house.

I am thankful that I’ve found this site.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

mylifeunravelled said:


> When I started the journey of separation and divorce, before even leaving my marriage, I really started to take a closer look at myself and I am trying to get a better understanding of what makes me me and why I think and feel the way I do sometimes - in an effort to learn about my roles in relationships and really just to better myself.
> 
> One common core theme is all of my relationships is that I don’t matter, I am not important enough, and expressing my feelings makes me difficult and unloveable, leaving me feeling rejected and abandoned. This is an ongoing theme for me.
> 
> ...


OP, that's great that you've been able to identify this common theme in your life. Sometimes we have such difficulty being objective about what we feel, our behavior and the motives for our behavior. I'll tell you that I spent close to a year reading and re-reading the symptoms/traits of Borderline Personality Disorder after I came across it on this site because I felt it described my dad. Each time I would recall an incident from childhood where his behavior puzzled me, I'd come back to the lists to see if it matched. It was only late last year it finally hit me that I too displayed those symptoms! What a scary realization that was!

One thing that I learned about in therapy that I find incredibly useful is Early Maladaptive Schemas (EMS). The core theme you identified from your relationships, is also described in EMS. Just to give a brief explanation, schemas are basically patterns of behavior that are developed during childhood (either by birth, childhood exposure or cultural exposure). They define the way we view/think about ourselves and the world around us.

This is the EMS grouping I thought about based on the core theme you described:

"Disconnection & Rejection
The essence of this schema domain is about a general expectation that your basic needs will be met by others in an unpredictable or inconsistent way. Many people who identify with schemas within this domain come from families perceived as cold, detached, explosive, lonely, abusive, or rejecting."

Another description suggests:

"Patients with schemas in this domain are unable to form secure, satisfying attachments to others. They believe that their needs for stability, safety, nurturance, love and belonging will not be met. Typical families of origin are unstable (Abandonment/Instability), abusive (Mistrust/Abuse), cold (Emotional Deprivation), rejecting (Defectiveness/Shame), or isolated from the outside world (Social Isolation/Alienation). Patients with schemas in the Disconnection and Rejection domain (especially the first four schemas) are often the most damaged. Many had traumatic childhoods, and as adults they tend to rush headlong from one self-destructive relationship to another or to avoid close relationships altogether."

People with schemas in that domain failed to get at least one of their five childhood needs met by their parental unit - "1. Secure attachments to others (includes safety, stability, nurturance, and acceptance)". 

Does any of that resonate with you OP? If you'd like more info you can find quite a bit by searching EMS. The book "Schema Therapy: A Practitioner's Guide" goes in to a lot more detail than the lists of schemas you'll find online. You can read much of the Guide through books.google without having to buy it.


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Keke24 said:


> mylifeunravelled said:
> 
> 
> > When I started the journey of separation and divorce, before even leaving my marriage, I really started to take a closer look at myself and I am trying to get a better understanding of what makes me me and why I think and feel the way I do sometimes - in an effort to learn about my roles in relationships and really just to better myself.
> ...


Oh yes!! We learn a lot about schema with regards to teaching children.
I have an anxious attachment personality and I this relates to my childhood - one or both parents always mad, told if you wanted something to cry about they’d give you something to cry about, emotional needs not met...not abused so to speak, but definitely inconsistent and unpredictable childhood. 

My dad especially, I still feel like he doesn’t like me. My mom, judgemental and has recently taken it upon herself to discuss my “desperate” choices with my teenage daughters and when I explained to her that this is unacceptable, I got a “you always have more to say when you’re mad, lol” response. 
Needless to say, a whole lifetime of insecurity and distrust.

Followed by a marriage that replicated that and now another relationship. Same patterns.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

mylifeunravelled said:


> Oh yes!! We learn a lot about schema with regards to teaching children.
> I have an anxious attachment personality and I this relates to my childhood - one or both parents always mad, told if you wanted something to cry about they’d give you something to cry about, emotional needs not met...not abused so to speak, but definitely inconsistent and unpredictable childhood.
> 
> My dad especially, I still feel like he doesn’t like me. My mom, judgemental and has recently taken it upon herself to discuss my “desperate” choices with my teenage daughters and when I explained to her that this is unacceptable, I got a “you always have more to say when you’re mad, lol” response.
> ...


Man OP, you're way ahead! It seems you have a lot of the knowledge and awareness but what's missing is the practicality of how to apply it to try to change the way you think/behave. You definitely need to fire your counselor, you probably know way more than she can share with you.

If you like the schema approach, you could consider schema based therapy. Although I think a specialist in that area may be hard to find. A CBT specialist would be easier. I could share the tools that my therapist provided me with in a PM (let me know if you'd like). However I'm not sure how helpful that would be to you without the detailed contextual explanation of triggers/schemas/NATs etc that a CBT therapist would be able to provide. 

Do you keep a journal OP? If you already do, that would be really helpful for CBT counseling. 

Also, have you been able to confront your parents at all about the way they treat[ed] you? Are you able to establish boundaries with them? I made massive progress by doing just that (I cut off our relationship) at the advice of TAMers. More recently I opened up about my feelings about my childhood with my aunts against the wishes of my mother. That felt even better, I didn't realize how much I needed the validation of other family members to support me in saying what happened was crazy and not ok.


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

My kids have just left for their dads 😢 

I invited a co-worker over for a drink on my porch, but she has plans tonight. And I’ve made plans to go out for supper with another teacher friend tomorrow night. 

I have report cards to get done this weekend and other stuff to prepare for the end of our school year. 

I remember my sister telling me “I get” to sit at home by myself and that I should be thankful. lol


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Guess who showed up at my house today, after not speaking to me all week.

He showed up, sat there in silence, and then proceeded to try to pick a fight. I told him I was not arguing with him. 
He told me I should shack up with someone that will be here 24 hours a day because that’s what I want. I told him to leave. He threw his water bottle at his vehicle and stormed off.

I had been sitting outside on my porch, which is why there was any communication at all. I wasn’t inside behind closed doors.
I didn’t invite him here, I didn’t message him, and I sure wasn’t going to engage in yet another head beating session. What’s the point?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He showed up because he's not through with you yet. There likely will be more of that as he waits for you to cave as you have in the past. Don't consider it for even a moment. And don't jump right into another relationship either. Spend some time alone. Find out why you choose men like your husband and this guy so you won't do it again (hint: you have family of origin issues so work on that).


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mylifeunravelled said:


> He showed up, sat there in silence, and then proceeded to try to pick a fight. I told him I was not arguing with him.
> He told me I should shack up with someone that will be here 24 hours a day because that’s what I want. I told him to leave. He threw his water bottle at his vehicle and stormed off.
> 
> I didn’t invite him here, I didn’t message him, and I sure wasn’t going to engage in yet another head beating session. What’s the point?


It sounds like there is a potential for stalking. For someone to show up at your home uninvited is a major red flag in my book. 

You were caught off guard, and that's what he wanted. If he attempts this again when you are outside, go inside your house and call the police. Do not engage him in any conversation. I know that sounds extreme, but it may be the best course of action. 

Has this guy ever been physically abusive in any way?


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## mylifeunravelled (May 24, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> It sounds like there is a potential for stalking. For someone to show up at your home uninvited is a major red flag in my book.
> 
> You were caught off guard, and that's what he wanted. If he attempts this again when you are outside, go inside your house and call the police. Do not engage him in any conversation. I know that sounds extreme, but it may be the best course of action.
> 
> Has this guy ever been physically abusive in any way?


No, he never been physical with me, ever. He’s thrown temper tantrums that remind me of a toddler, the kicking and screaming type, but he’s never laid a hand on me or been rough with me in any way.

Why would he think that I’d be game to argue with him over the differences in what we want out of the relationship? What’s there to argue about? 
I’m not changing my mind in what I want from a relationship. I’ve spent long enough learning all about what I don’t want.
It’s actually kind of funny.

I told him, we want different things and after all that we’ve been through, we each deserve something that will make us happy. I want to be with someone that wants to be with me, I don’t see a compromise there. Why would you argue with me about that?

He’s like a big child.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

mylifeunravelled said:


> Ok so...how do I do that?
> 
> You guys, I am not good at letting go and moving on. I stay in relationships long passed the expiry date. When I finally left my marriage, I was numb.
> It took me years of being lied to, cheated on, and lied to some more and having it affect my children, to finally say enough is enough and walk away. It’s been a volatile battle ever since. My kids have suffered, I have suffered and it’s been awful.
> ...


But it already ended... he just hasn't bothered to tell you.

No man goes a month without connecting with you and figures it's still a viable, healthy connection!

In fact, when any man makes you a top priority he will absolutely make time and energy for you no matter what's happening!

This guy isn't interested.

Move on and forward by saying mainly to YOURSELF that it's been over and be open to someone new.

This guy has been holding a spot that you could be filling.

It's likely he's been seeing someone else. You don't even owe him a conversation - just silence.

What are YOU going to do to start dating again?

Change is what you do - take action to change this for yourself!


I see your update - text him and tell him if he contacts you again you'll call the police. Stop letting him waste your time! He's an energy waster! 

He doesn't want to make effort but he also doesn't want to finding someone else. Ditch him! He likely came over for a booty call! Notice he didn't call and ask you OUT on a date? He's not worth thinking about.


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