# What about me



## meagain (Apr 9, 2012)

K, here I am with my delema. Well first off before I get to that part let me say that I indeed love my wife with all my heart. We've been married now for 6 years both our second time around. Been together for some 9+ years and very good ones for the most part.

Now my delema. Sex, how I need it more often than she is willing to give me. Once a month is not enough and having to plead for it makes it all the more frustarting. To the point where I'm about ready to look elsewhwre for it. Now I know this is wrong and hav'nt done so but the thought has enterd my mind more often then not.

I do frequent some porn sites to help releive the desires but that is getting old pretty quick and I am tiered of seeing the whites of my wifes eyeballs every time I try to entice her to the bedroom. Not a good feeling.
I have tried to talk to her about this before and from the very first time I had made it very clear that I like sex and I am very open minded about it. But lately it seems that she has lost all interest in it no matter what I try. Something is wrong and I don't know how to fix it. Impossible for me to give up sex all together. Masterbation is just not the same and besides I want to do it with my wife that I love so very much.

Not that I am the perfect husband but I do do alot for my wife. I do everything for her. She even says so. Perhaps I do way too much. All I ask in return is to make love with me and don't do it just for me. I want her to want me as well.
I, everytime we do have sex have to push her hand to initiate it. This only make me feel like I am making her do something she really doesn't want to do. Again not a good feeling. If I don't do so nothing will happen other then she will fall asleep. Sucks big time.

Tomorrow I am going to speak with a therapist about this and other issues. I am getting depressed because of this.
I love my wife I truely do. We do everything togther. We travel the world we go tag saleing, I take her shopping, I do all but tie her shoes for cryin out loud. You would think she would at the very least make love to me and want it as much or at least sometimes as I do. Never ever does she surprise me. SUCKS!!!

I know I will have to confront her about this and I will. After I do so I will feel like I am making her feel as though she is not everything that I wantand she will do this just for me and not for her.
Anyway I could go on and on but I need to got to work now.
Sorry about the spelling but I'm certain you all can read what I write.

I'll be back to read the remarks and I'm sure there will be some negative ones. That's okay I can take it.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

"We do everything togther. We travel the world we go tag saleing, I take her shopping, I do all but tie her shoes for cryin out loud."

Stop this right now. You look foolish. She doesn't meet your sexual needs, so you reward her by doing more for her and meeting HER needs (doing things with her, taking her on trips, accompanying her on tag sales). And your reward for doing that? Your sexual needs continue to be unmet.

1 - find something else to do with your time that doesn't involve her.

2 - tell her that you promised monogamy, but not celibacy and that meeting her needs are difficult when yours aren't being met.

3 - Who is going to the therapist? Both of you? If not, that's what I would suggest. However be prepared to take some responsibility for the problems you two are having. If she doesn't want to go to counseling, tell her you are going to discuss the marriage issues alone (either with a marriage counselor or your therapist).


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

You didn't mention her age or health status. You also didn't mention if you've undergone some physical changes that turn her off. I'll assume she's healthy, not enduring menopause, not depressed, not stressed, not morbidly obese or on some kind of sex zapping meds. 

According to your description it appears as if you've made the common mistake of doing too much for her and being too nice. Most here will call you a Beta guy. You need to be the Alpha guy. As it turns out the overly sensitive nice guy is not sexy. Women may say that's what they want, but its not. Most don't want an a-hole either. They want someone with quiet confidence who will not tolerate a lack of sex or their manipulations (purposely withholding sex is a form of manipulation). Unfortunately, sometimes women lose their desire for any man and that's a very difficult situation. I can't address that, but here's what I've done successfully with the help of this great forum.

You need to stop asking for sex and begin the 180 process (Look it up). Stop waiting on your wife hand and foot and become disinterested in her activities. Live up to your family responsibilities, but that's it. When you ask for sex or argue about it you're sending her the message that she still has you wrapped around her finger because you still desire her. When you show no passion and disengage for a while she will begin to wonder what's going on. Go out with friends more often and do your own thing. Tell her your plans, but don't ask for permission. Don't cheat or hang out with other women. Find a new hobby or sports activity. What ever gets you away from her for a while. Create some mystery and make her think your able to attract other women. Get into shape if necessary and make sure you're always looking your best. 

If she's not too far gone she'll eventually start to react to your changes. This is when you need to keep your cool. Only after you have her full attention through your consistant actions can you figure out what's really going on. At this point you begin to take her out on some dates and show her a good time, but don't ask for sex. If she offers, you should refuse it. If she asks why you aren't interested then this your opportunit to have a serious discussion about the state of your marriage. Tell her that you love her and what you expect in a marriage. Make sure she knows that no sex = no intimacy = no marriage for men. Women are different and very often don't understand this. Tell her that you want her to desire you and if she can't she should consider letting you go. Don't bluff here. You need to have resolve. She needs to know that you were hurt by her actions and that there are consequences. If she still loves you she will respond in a positive way, but it may take a while for her to admit it. If she doesn't love you then this is when it begins to come out. All of this won't happen at once. It may take several attempts under different circumstances so be a persistant man with a plan.

By doing all of this your trying to figure out the following:

1. Your wife has become too comfortable in your marriage and needed a wake up call. She doesn't understand how the lack of sex and intimacy damages your marriage. She thinks no matter what she does you'll always be there because that's you. 

2. Your wife has some resentment towards you that you didn't know about. Resentment is the enemy of sex and takes a while to reverse.

3. Your wife is interested in someone else. 

4. Your wife is no longer physically attracted to you because your appearance or hygene has changed.

5. You have never met your wife's sexual needs so she can't be bothered anymore.

Peace


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> You need to stop asking for sex and begin the 180 process (Look it up). Stop waiting on your wife hand and foot and become disinterested in her activities. Live up to your family responsibilities, but that's it.


You gave a lot of good insight in your post, thank you. Firstly though, I keep seeing people mention the 180 process, but google didn't help me find it. What is it?

Secondly, I just don't understand why men keep saying if your wife doesn't give you sex, stop giving her what she needs. How is that going to help, I don't understand? Isn't it just going to drive the two of you further apart? I'm not asking to be a smart ass, I genuinely want to know why some folk think this is a good solution. My hubby and I were in that situation after the birth of our son. My sex drive disappeared, so he punished me by being distant, barely talking to me, not giving me any affection. I didn't understand why he was doing it (I thought it was normal to have a diminished sex drive after having a baby) so it just hurt and confused me. I knew he wanted more sex (he told me so), but I was perplexed why he wasn't more understanding and patient. I find it really manipulative to withhold something your wife needs because you're not getting sex, it seems like blackmail. And it's creating a new set of problems, surely? Before you only had one problem (lack of sex), now you have two, lack of sex AND whatever it is you choose to withhold from your wife. Two problems are better than one...? Two wrongs make a right...? I just can't understand why this is a tactic so many suggest. And to re-iterate, I'm NOT trying to be inflammatory, I am genuinely trying to understand, because I want to understand why my husband did that to me.


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

Agreed with the above posters


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

zeeta said:


> You gave a lot of good insight in your post, thank you. Firstly though, I keep seeing people mention the 180 process, but google didn't help me find it. What is it?
> 
> Secondly, I just don't understand why men keep saying if your wife doesn't give you sex, stop giving her what she needs. How is that going to help, I don't understand? Isn't it just going to drive the two of you further apart? I'm not asking to be a smart ass, I genuinely want to know why some folk think this is a good solution. My hubby and I were in that situation after the birth of our son. My sex drive disappeared, so he punished me by being distant, barely talking to me, not giving me any affection. I didn't understand why he was doing it (I thought it was normal to have a diminished sex drive after having a baby) so it just hurt and confused me. I knew he wanted more sex (he told me so), but I was perplexed why he wasn't more understanding and patient. I find it really manipulative to withhold something your wife needs because you're not getting sex, it seems like blackmail. And it's creating a new set of problems, surely? Before you only had one problem (lack of sex), now you have two, lack of sex AND whatever it is you choose to withhold from your wife. Two problems are better than one...? Two wrongs make a right...? I just can't understand why this is a tactic so many suggest. And to re-iterate, I'm NOT trying to be inflammatory, I am genuinely trying to understand, because I want to understand why my husband did that to me.


After a baby is a very different situation. Most mature men know that there will be a dry spell and deal with it. It honestly took my wife 18 months to recover fully but it wasn't easy on us. If a wife stops having sex with her way too nice husband after many years more "niceness" isn't going to change anything. A change in behavior is necessary to make progress in this kind of relationship.


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

zeeta said:


> You gave a lot of good insight in your post, thank you. Firstly though, I keep seeing people mention the 180 process, but google didn't help me find it. What is it?
> 
> Secondly, I just don't understand why men keep saying if your wife doesn't give you sex, stop giving her what she needs. How is that going to help, I don't understand? Isn't it just going to drive the two of you further apart? I'm not asking to be a smart ass, I genuinely want to know why some folk think this is a good solution. My hubby and I were in that situation after the birth of our son. My sex drive disappeared, so he punished me by being distant, barely talking to me, not giving me any affection. I didn't understand why he was doing it (I thought it was normal to have a diminished sex drive after having a baby) so it just hurt and confused me. I knew he wanted more sex (he told me so), but I was perplexed why he wasn't more understanding and patient. I find it really manipulative to withhold something your wife needs because you're not getting sex, it seems like blackmail. And it's creating a new set of problems, surely? Before you only had one problem (lack of sex), now you have two, lack of sex AND whatever it is you choose to withhold from your wife. Two problems are better than one...? Two wrongs make a right...? I just can't understand why this is a tactic so many suggest. And to re-iterate, I'm NOT trying to be inflammatory, I am genuinely trying to understand, because I want to understand why my husband did that to me.


What needs of hers would he be neglecting? Not taking her shopping?

And its just not sex, sex is a foundation to a healthy relationship and marriage. Are his needs not important? Should he sit idly by until she wants to? But yet tends to her every little whim by going shopping? NO! If she's not meeting his needs then why should he meet hers? This is a relationship, both sides needs to put in equal effort.

If sexual behavior change, then there is something wrong, be it medical or physical or emotional, so it needs to be addressed.

But one thing we don't know if she has always been like this or something changed.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

zeeta:

Forgot to mention that men equate a lack of sex as having no marriage so from our perspective it still only one problem.


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> zeeta:
> 
> Forgot to mention that men equate a lack of sex as having no marriage so from our perspective it still only one problem.


It feels like I'm peering into a secret meeting of men, and learning secrets I'm not supposed to know 

It really highlights to me how different men and women are. I'm quite flabbergasted that you've said marriage and sex are the same thing, and I do believe you probably represent a large number of men. I've never made a list of marriage priorities, but sex certainly isn't in the top three for me. And I know several of my girlfriends have said they wouldn't care if they didn't get any for long stretches of time. Why did nature make us so different!


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

zeeta said:


> It feels like I'm peering into a secret meeting of men, and learning secrets I'm not supposed to know
> 
> It really highlights to me how different men and women are. I'm quite flabbergasted that you've said marriage and sex are the same thing, and I do believe you probably represent a large number of men. I've never made a list of marriage priorities, but sex certainly isn't in the top three for me. And I know several of my girlfriends have said they wouldn't care if they didn't get any for long stretches of time. Why did nature make us so different!



Sex is a top priority for men because it ensures the survival of the human species. Men have evolved to spread their seed as often as possible. Its only in the last thousand years that marriage has been in the picture and human evolution hasn't caught up yet.


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## meagain (Apr 9, 2012)

I'm back as I said I would. Thanks for all the feedbacks.

One question arose about my wifes age and health. Well she is 60 and I 56. Yes she has gone thru menapause, she is on blood presure meds.
Also it was borought up if I have changed as far as hygene. Well I am as clean as one can get. I have lost over 20 lbs. I am conciesence about my atire, I always try to look my best. So with that I don't think is an issue. 

I do plan on eazing off on all that I do. I may be dumb but I sure ain't stupid. enough is enough. 
As far as finding other interest and going off on myself I already do. I work on my classic cars, I go fishing, I go to the beach but lately I have been to depressed to do anything. Seems that this no sex has really taken the wind out of my sails.

As I mentioned I have an appointment in the am with a marrage concelour. First I need to learn about me before I go any futher.
Thanks all for the good insight......


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

zeeta said:


> It feels like I'm peering into a secret meeting of men, and learning secrets I'm not supposed to know
> 
> It really highlights to me how different men and women are. I'm quite flabbergasted that you've said marriage and sex are the same thing, and I do believe you probably represent a large number of men. I've never made a list of marriage priorities, but sex certainly isn't in the top three for me. And I know several of my girlfriends have said they wouldn't care if they didn't get any for long stretches of time. Why did nature make us so different!


For me, lack of sex doesn't equate to no marriage. Deliberate withholding of sex (or willful refusal to meet any other legitimate important need) equates to no marriage and actually constitutes a fraudulent, abusive situation. I didn't ask for a roommate because I wasn't interested in getting a roomie. The proposal and acceptance was for a "mate". Mating behavior is required. If she can't, we'll deal with it. If she won't, that is unacceptable. A relationship with a sexless woman holds about as much appeal to me as a bowl of plastic fruit. It would have the appearance of a loving relationship without any satisfaction. I fully expect that sex will decline in our senior years, but we are very far from that.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

zeeta said:


> It feels like I'm peering into a secret meeting of men, and learning secrets I'm not supposed to know
> 
> It really highlights to me how different men and women are. I'm quite flabbergasted that you've said marriage and sex are the same thing, and I do believe you probably represent a large number of men. I've never made a list of marriage priorities, *but sex certainly isn't in the top three for me*. And there lies a fundamental problem


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Eventually I just told my wife I needed sex more than once a month or every other month. She told me she doesn't need sex and oh well and for me to jerk myself off.

I told her D is on the table and if she can't meet my needs then I'm walking.

She now makes time for at least once a week and sometimes I get a 2nd or 3rd poke at the wife if I'm lucky.

BTW, I still need to meet her needs also so it can't be a one way street. You want some, you're gonna have to make sure you keep her happy also. Be a jerk and I don't get any that week, which has happened.

And the title should really be What about us.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

zeeta said:


> You gave a lot of good insight in your post, thank you. Firstly though, I keep seeing people mention the 180 process, but google didn't help me find it. What is it?
> 
> Secondly, I just don't understand why men keep saying if your wife doesn't give you sex, stop giving her what she needs. How is that going to help, I don't understand? Isn't it just going to drive the two of you further apart? I'm not asking to be a smart ass, I genuinely want to know why some folk think this is a good solution. My hubby and I were in that situation after the birth of our son. My sex drive disappeared, so he punished me by being distant, barely talking to me, not giving me any affection. I didn't understand why he was doing it (I thought it was normal to have a diminished sex drive after having a baby) so it just hurt and confused me. I knew he wanted more sex (he told me so), but I was perplexed why he wasn't more understanding and patient. I find it really manipulative to withhold something your wife needs because you're not getting sex, it seems like blackmail. And it's creating a new set of problems, surely? Before you only had one problem (lack of sex), now you have two, lack of sex AND whatever it is you choose to withhold from your wife. Two problems are better than one...? Two wrongs make a right...? I just can't understand why this is a tactic so many suggest. And to re-iterate, I'm NOT trying to be inflammatory, I am genuinely trying to understand, because I want to understand why my husband did that to me.


For many men in a committed relationship, sex is about love and acceptance. We (I am one of those men) can have sex without love, but need sex when there is love. It is an important way of bonding and connecting. Without sex (when reasonably possible), I lose a connection with my wife.

As for the 180, I don't recommend it in this situation but rather the idea of “turning down the thermostat.” In essence, you stop working so hard to meet your partners needs and start working on taking care of yourself. It is not black mail, but rather a tool to:

1) Make your actions and words align. If you say something is a problem, but keep doing all the nice wonderful things for your partner, your actions are saying it is not a problem. For example, I love eating pork and ask for it all the time. My wife does not, so we rarely have it. Since my actions toward her remain the same, she (correctly) understands it is not big deal. When something is a big deal, but you don’t change your actions, it is far to easy for your partner to assume it really is not important. 

2) Gives your partner space to work on the relationship. If I always do the laundry, my wife starts to not even think about that chore. She begins to take my efforts their for granted. It is not even intentional, it is just human nature. By backing off, your give your partner the opportunity to do some work in the relationship, whether it be saying “I love you” first, or buying a gift on impulse or reaching out for a hug. 

3) Gives the high drive partner a chance to work on themselves. They have needs that are not being met, so backing off gives them a chance to work on them and have the met (in an appropriate way). This should include having some fun and enjoy life. I recommend doing some activities that they may have dropped along the way.

4) And finally, help reduce resentment. By pulling back, the HD partner avoids situations where their expectations build only to be disappointed. Because they are working on themselves and not counting on the partner to meet every need, they are less likely to be disappointed and resentful.

A big key is to keep an upbeat and pleasant disposition when this goes on. You don’t want to be dishonest, but you can’t sulk or pout or try to punish your partner. You also need to take care of your portion of the household, whether it be the children, home repairs or doing the dishes. You take care of your stuff because that is what adults do. But, instead of hovering over your partner making sure there wants are all met, go have some fun and take care of yourself. Hit the gym, work on your hobby, just be a bit less there.

I hope this makes at least some sense.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

When i read your post what struck me was when you said that you "see the whites of her eyes" when you suggest sex... i gather you mean she rolls her eyes at you.
That is so very disrepectful and unloving... do you feel respected by her?

If she doesn't respect you she's not going to find you sexy...


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