# Bad sex vs No sex



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

So what say you???

Is bad sex better than no sex?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It would depend on how you define bad sex. However, if you feel worse after sex, perhaps no sex is better.


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## Chet8625 (Jul 13, 2010)

It's easier to improve bad sex than it is no sex.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

I can finally say without a doubt, I would choose no sex over bad sex.

I look forward to never feeling anxiety in my bedroom ever again. It’s quite a relaxing feeling.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Is bad sex better than no sex?


It has been said that sex is 10% of marriage when you have it, and 90% of marriage when you don't. 

In my own mind, sex is 100% of marriage. No sex = no marriage. I can have a friend without benefits (who supports herself) for 1/10 of the money this damn farce of a marriage costs me. I can take out my friend to wonderful dinners, go on excursions, go to the symphony, attend church....we will have done nothing sinful or immoral....... and, guess what? I can have all my clothes professionally cleaned, laundered, pressed, and have a houskeeper come in twice a month for another 1/10 of the money. If there were no stupid cats and animals in here, my cleaning would be minimal. I could run my dishwasher once a week because I would take two meals every day out. 
The other large advantage to a FWoB is that I can throw my socks on the floor and put them in the hamper in the morning when I am not dog-tired.

Without a doubt, I would choose a starfish screw once a week over no sex.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I can't honestly answer the question because am not sure what "bad" sex would be. Maybe "starfish"? I don't believe have ever had bad sex. For sure, all of the sex have had with wife would classify as excellent and always preferred to none.

Maybe my combat Marine Dad knew what was "bad" as he had much wider experience with women than me. But he would always say 'Even bad sex is pretty damned wonderful'.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)




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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Enthusiasm and desire are what makes it. Sex can be terrible (btdt), but if it's with an inexperienced or unskilled partner that is eager and enthusiastic that stuff works out in the end. 

It's the "gun to the head, let me get this over with" crap that is the absolute worst. Better to beat off with a leather work glove dry than do anything in that realm.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I think most bad sex for guys they still orgasm and just want something different.

But bad sex for women can mean no orgasm, pain and sometimes damage.

So how bad are we talking when we say bad sex?


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

When someone doesn't know what bad sex is, wait till they find out what a real lover can do for them.

I can hardly wait to show the lady I love what she has been missing!

Firm but gentle with nothing held back is my motto!

Men need to be more considerate lovers IMHO!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So what say you???
> 
> Is bad sex better than no sex?


Depends on what’s bad about it.

If you’re talking about a woman that just lays there like a dead fish… well, I’d probably rather **** an _actual_ dead fish.

🤷🏻‍♂️


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I never had bad sex, but it’s no sex if the alternative is bad sex. What’s the point?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

ive had bad sex. years ago i had a gf that would just throw off all her clothes and insist f______me! now i need foreplay and some tenderness leading up to the act.
i had trouble keeping it up for her with her giving insistent commands from the bed. however once i had it in her, she shrieked and claimed it hurt. so i had to finish her off by hand.
the one time i completed the act to completion, she complained all day that i 'tore her up'. 

well that was bad sex. was it better than no sex? yeah, it was.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think most bad sex for guys they still orgasm and just want something different.
> 
> But bad sex for women can mean no orgasm, pain and sometimes damage.
> 
> So how bad are we talking when we say bad sex?


Yeah I think most men are gonna take bad sex over no sex because we are almost guaranteed to get ours at least. A lot of men who aren't so experienced probably don't even know what bad sex is.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So what say you???
> 
> Is bad sex better than no sex?


I'd rather have no sex than bad sex. My bf showed me that I didn't miss anything in my sexless marriage 😂


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Sex can be bad for either partner, even if both have orgasms.

There are lots of ways sex can be bad, in addition to physical issues women are especially vulnerable to. 

I don’t know what “most men” who have had “bad sex” have experienced. I’m not sure what as meant by “just wanting a different experience.” Certainly I’ve had bad sexual experiences that were bad enough emotionally that I’d gladly trade for some other kind of bad.


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## Brian from Columbus (Dec 9, 2020)

It’s never bad! If my wife delays or denies my orgasm, I am incredibly uninhibited and willing to promise EVERYTHING. I lose a little steam post orgasm and chicken out. So….if she wants me to keep my silly wild promises, deny me release until I keep the promises. She knows all my curious secrets!


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

I've had bad sex and I'll definitely take no sex (which really means just relying on solo sex) than bad any day.


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## keeponkeepingon (Oct 29, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think most bad sex for guys they still orgasm and just want something different.
> 
> But bad sex for women can mean no orgasm, pain and sometimes damage.
> 
> So how bad are we talking when we say bad sex?


Excellent response
I would consider "bad sex" to having no emotion. Now there are some people who look at sex as a simple act of "getting off". But for most men and woman the physical is only half of is while the brain accounts for a much larger part then we realize.
So, if one side has no desire but is just going through the motions and the other side knows that it can be very harmful to the relationship.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Nothing worse then bad sex. I will do without sex then have bad sex


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Something like starfish sex is worse than no sex, a lot worse.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> Enthusiasm and desire are what makes it. Sex can be terrible (btdt), but if it's with an inexperienced or unskilled partner that is eager and enthusiastic that stuff works out in the end.
> 
> It's the "gun to the head, let me get this over with" crap that is the absolute worst. Better to beat off with a leather work glove dry than do anything in that realm.


She said “are you done yet?” one time. Why?cuz after I read her the riot act. You don’t say that to your lover. Ever.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Something like starfish sex is worse than no sex, a lot worse.


Had to look up “starfish sex”
Yes, that has happened here. Sadly


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

keeponkeepingon said:


> So, if one side has no desire but is just going through the motions and the other side knows that it can be very harmful to the relationship.


This. Yes for me this would be very Bad sex. As in horrible. Emasculating. And none at all would be preferable. Better to just end a travesty than to pretend (lie).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Since sex includes myself, I wouldn't be having bad sex for long.

Having firm boundaries about sex helps.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Since sex includes myself, I wouldn't be having bad sex for long.
> 
> Having firm boundaries about sex helps.


But of course both parties have to follow them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But of course both parties have to follow them.


I was only speaking for myself. 

I don't have bad sex because I know how to have good sex and I have requirements that have to be met to sustain a relationship with me.

It takes work for a marriage to succeed and a woman too silly or lazy to do the work won't be kept by this barbarian.

I give at least as good as I get and often more so I walk the talk.

Children shouldn't play at marriage. It's for grown ups.

The point, as it pertains to the OP, is that I will be having sex and it will be good.

I've been with my wife for nearly 31 years but this principal is sound. If a woman isn't filled with desire, getting warm, flushed, excited etc., I'm not going to bother.

P.S. Our very first time was pretty bad for both of us.

We worked hard that first week. Somewhere around 30x and we got much better quickly.😉


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think most bad sex for guys they still orgasm and just want something different.
> 
> But bad sex for women can mean no orgasm, pain and sometimes damage.
> 
> So how bad are we talking when we say bad sex?


Interesting. I wasn't thinking of it that way when the question was asked.

You make a good point.

Physically, I am always going to orgasm, but I wasn't looking at it from a physical standpoint. I was looking at it from an emotional place.

Bad sex to me is where I do not want to be there. I'm treated so horribly in the bedroom that I simply do not even want to be there. I don't want to feel the anxiety. I don't want to be having boring robotic sex for 30 seconds and then be told to "hurry up and finish". Now I have to concentrate even harder to try and orgasm fast because if I say, "ummmm... it's been 30 seconds. May I have a little bit longer?" or if I say, "sorry, I don't think I'm going to get there today" because it is so obvious she doesn't give a F about me..... I know the next action she is going to take is to take away sex completely for a minimum of 3 months, if not longer.

So I lay there in bed, following a very strict set of rules, all the while attempting to orgasm as fast as possible when I'm not turned on in the least and I am doing all of this so that sex isn't taken away from me as punishment.

Sometimes I need to just slap myself in the face and ask, "what in the hell are you doing?" 🤣

That is what I consider to be bad sex. If I'm just going to feel anxiety and negative emotions, I don't need it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Interesting. I wasn't thinking of it that way when the question was asked.
> 
> You make a good point.
> 
> ...


That's not bad sex described here. That's straight up emotional abuse.

Any woman who does that should be divorced in short order if she even tries to do that more than once to a person. And counseling after the first time, it's so horrible.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Any woman who does that should be divorced in short order if she even tries to do that more than once to a person.


done and done.

I finished up the divorce two days ago.


oh, while I’m thinking about it, today is the last day ever that I’m living in the same house as her! Should I go tell her what you said?😂😂😂


this is why I love TAM.


I was so hopelessly naive for decades. Didn’t have the slightest clue that what I described was NOT normal. It also didn’t help that I was gaslit for years and being told that this was normal.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> done and done.
> 
> I finished up the divorce two days ago.
> 
> ...


I recall your earlier posts. I didn't know it was as bad as you state, but that must be a big relief to get that behind you. 

My best to you moving forward, pal.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> I recall your earlier posts. I didn't know it was as bad as you state, but that must be a big relief to get that behind you.
> 
> My best to you moving forward, pal.


Ummmmm…… I haven’t even stated the worst of it yet here publicly.

I’ll wait a few months to make sure she isn’t reading here.

it unfortunately gets worse than this. Much worse.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Interesting. I wasn't thinking of it that way when the question was asked.
> 
> You make a good point.
> 
> ...


I’ve been there as well. It’s hurtful. What was more amazing is we take all of this abuse because we don’t know any better. Then we find TAM.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Much rather have no sex than bad sex. I keep telling myself not to try anymore and I go and initiate it the other night. It was the same as usual except she wouldn’t kiss me, it was the same starfish position, and the look on her face made me feel like I was assaulting her. It was the usual hurry it up. I’d just much rather take matters into my own hands than do that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GoodDad5 said:


> Much rather have no sex than bad sex. I keep telling myself not to try anymore and I go and initiate it the other night. It was the same as usual except she wouldn’t kiss me, it was the same starfish position, and the look on her face made me feel like I was assaulting her. It was the usual hurry it up. I’d just much rather take matters into my own hands than do that.


Do you know what is going on?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

I am finding it VERY difficult to say that I would rather have NO sex instead of bad sex. For one thing, I don't understand the definition of "bad"....do you mean painful, humiliating, demeaning...? YES, I would never choose sex like that, I wouldn't allow a man who treated me that way to touch me at all, never mind have my body for his pleasure.

But do you mean sex where he seems like he's bored and only there because of his "duty" or to keep me from leaving...? That wasn't fun or satisfying at all, but I always had HOPE that it was going to change and that I would find the magic formula that would spark his interest in me. I put up with that for over a decade (as it got progressively worse) because I craved that intimacy with him, even if it was tiny little crumbs...I couldn't imagine having no sex instead...that seemed even worse!

So I cannot really say that I would choose no sex over that, because I never refused him and I looked forward to having sex with him every time, just wishing it was going to be different each time. I guess maybe "bad sex" AND "no sex" are the same to me. However, I have NO intention of putting up with either of those again at all, in any way, ever ever ever.

For ME, sex is the only reason to be in a relationship at all, and be monogamous. So I will take it even further than just choosing NO sex...I would choose NO RELATIONSHIP if all it offered was "bad sex" OR "no sex".


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Livvie said:


> That's not bad sex described here. That's straight up emotional abuse.


I’d call it a mind ****, that only coincidentally involves genital contact.

And like other instances of abuse, it can be disorienting and damaging to one’s core.

I’m glad the OP recognized he didn’t need or want to live like that and chose a path out towards health and contentment.

Btw, I think it’s great folks in this thread are interested in defining terms. Often I think discussions go on and on here on TAM with participants thinking about significantly different situations that share only superficial similarities.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> done and done.
> 
> I finished up the divorce two days ago.
> 
> ...


I'm very happy for you!

I predict you will wake up smiling every day merely because you are out of a toxic relationship. 

Let the health and happiness flow!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> I recall your earlier posts. I didn't know it was as bad as you state, but that must be a big relief to get that behind you.
> 
> My best to you moving forward, pal.


Agreed....all the best for the future my friend.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I'm very happy for you!
> 
> I predict you will wake up smiling every day merely because you are out of a toxic relationship.
> 
> Let the health and happiness flow!


Livvie, thank you. It means a lot.

I’ll never claim to be a perfect man and have made many mistakes over the years. I always try to better myself.

but it means a lot to hear from the women on TAM that I am not crazy - because I definitely thought there was something wrong with me for so long. She made me feel like everything was my fault. I had nothing to compare it to.

it gives me a lot of hope that I can meet someone else out in the world that acts like a decent human being.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I am finding it VERY difficult to say that I would rather have NO sex instead of bad sex. For one thing, I don't understand the definition of "bad"....do you mean painful, humiliating, demeaning...? YES, I would never choose sex like that, I wouldn't allow a man who treated me that way to touch me at all, never mind have my body for his pleasure.
> 
> But do you mean sex where he seems like he's bored and only there because of his "duty" or to keep me from leaving...? That wasn't fun or satisfying at all, but I always had HOPE that it was going to change and that I would find the magic formula that would spark his interest in me. I put up with that for over a decade (as it got progressively worse) because I craved that intimacy with him, even if it was tiny little crumbs...I couldn't imagine having no sex instead...that seemed even worse!
> 
> ...


Thats a pretty interesting line of thought....I suppose you could replace the word "sex" with "relationship" as they do go hand in hand.

Thus you could then say would you rather have no relationship than a bad one and it kind of does equate to sex as well.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Livvie, thank you. It means a lot.
> 
> I’ll never claim to be a perfect man and have made many mistakes over the years. I always try to better myself.
> 
> ...


I am certain you will meet someone and be happy. I would just hold off on getting re-married for quite some time.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Thats a pretty interesting line of thought....I suppose you could replace the word "sex" with "relationship" as they do go hand in hand.
> 
> Thus you could then say would you rather have no relationship than a bad one and it kind of does equate to sex as well.


Yes, that's true I guess....and for ME, a bad relationship is one without regular, satisfying SEX (and I have a generous definition of "satisfying").


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Yes, that's true I guess....and for ME, a bad relationship is one without regular, satisfying SEX (and I have a generous definition of "satisfying").


Bad sex is bad sex. A bad relationship could be so much more. Physically, mentally, financially. Bad sex bothers the person getting it. A bad relationship could affect so many people and families. I don’t see the comparison.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I am certain you will meet someone and be happy. I would just hold off on getting re-married for quite some time.


Oh, I don’t want to take another financial hit. I don’t see marriage in my future.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Bad sex is bad sex. A bad relationship could be so much more. Physically, mentally, financially. Bad sex bothers the person getting it. A bad relationship could affect so many people and families. I don’t see the comparison.


Well, of course...I wasn't trying to compare them the way you interpreted what I wrote, I was using ONE aspect of a relationship and defining it as bad. Of course there are many other ways that relationships are very bad and not worth being in besides just sex, you are exactly right.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Oh, I don’t want to take another financial hit. I don’t see marriage in my future.


Smart man. Print out what you just said and tape it to your bathroom mirror so you remember it a few years from now.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Smart man. Print out what you just said and tape it to your bathroom mirror so you remember it a few years from now.


Agreed.

I’ve shown in my past that a pair of perfectly shaped large breasts can blind me from red flags. I probably will need to print that out and read it on the daily.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Smart man. Print out what you just said and tape it to your bathroom mirror so you remember it a few years from now.


When he's getting laid like tile by some 30yr old hottie and can't remember his name...Lol!!!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I’ve shown in my past that a pair of perfectly shaped large breasts can blind me from red flags. I probably will need to print that out and read it on the daily.


Should you ever encounter perfectly shaped large headlights, turn and "Run Forrest! Run!"


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Oh, I don’t want to take another financial hit. I don’t see marriage in my future.


Well, I'm an eternal optimist so I will say, "Never say never".

Life is weird.😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> When he's getting laid like tile by some 30yr old hottie and can't remember his name...Lol!!!


Oh, you made me laugh!😆


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Should you ever encounter perfectly shaped large headlights, turn and "Run Forrest! Run!"


And give up on the chance to have great sex for once in my life? 

Not a chance.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> And give up on the chance to have great sex for once in my life?
> 
> Not a chance.


Danger! Danger! Danger! DONT LOOK AT THE HEADLIGHTS!


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

I’d take no sex over bad sex. Best I’ve had is ok sex but most has been bad.
Depressed. My husband just jacked off in the shower while I laid in the bed and masturbated. We’re both horny at the same time but can’t bother having sex with each other?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Depressed. My husband just jacked off in the shower while I laid in the bed and masturbated. We’re both horny at the same time but can’t bother having sex with each other?


Didn’t you say yesterday that you told him you wanted a divorce?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I’d take no sex over bad sex. Best I’ve had is ok sex but most has been bad.
> Depressed. My husband just jacked off in the shower while I laid in the bed and masturbated. We’re both horny at the same time but can’t bother having sex with each other?


What would he have done if you had joined him in he shower?


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Didn’t you say yesterday that you told him you wanted a divorce?


Yes, I told him Friday night. I’m not sure I can follow through with it. We didn’t speak to each other much again until last night but we didn’t talk about our conversation from the night before. Today we talked about it some. I told him it was really depressing that he was in the bathroom masturbating while I was in the bedroom masturbating and that this is largely what we’ve fallen into doing. He said “You think I want to have sex with you after what you said to me the other night?” No, I don’t expect him to want to have sex with me now. I’m still sad and upset about it. He said he thinks we’re really good friends and that it feels like we’re just roommates. He thinks the best thing will be for me to stay here until I can afford to be able to go/do whatever I want and he knows I cannot afford it right now. As much as I know he’s right and I’ve thought the same things myself many times before it’s still incredibly sad to me. I know I’m not fulfilled in our relationship and he isn’t either. It makes sense to go our separate ways but it makes me feel sick to my stomach at the same time.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> What would he have done if you had joined him in he shower?


I don’t know. I wasn’t brave enough to attempt it because after the things I said on Friday I felt too stubborn to let my guard down and be vulnerable and emotional. It took me most of the day yesterday to say more than 1 or 2 monotone words to him. I feel like I’m acting very cold but it’s the only way I can manage to not have a complete breakdown over everything.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Yes, I told him Friday night. I’m not sure I can follow through with it. We didn’t speak to each other much again until last night but we didn’t talk about our conversation from the night before. Today we talked about it some. I told him it was really depressing that he was in the bathroom masturbating while I was in the bedroom masturbating and that this is largely what we’ve fallen into doing. He said “You think I want to have sex with you after what you said to me the other night?” No, I don’t expect him to want to have sex with me now. I’m still sad and upset about it. He said he thinks we’re really good friends and that it feels like we’re just roommates. He thinks the best thing will be for me to stay here until I can afford to be able to go/do whatever I want and he knows I cannot afford it right now. As much as I know he’s right and I’ve thought the same things myself many times before it’s still incredibly sad to me. I know I’m not fulfilled in our relationship and he isn’t either. It makes sense to go our separate ways but it makes me feel sick to my stomach at the same time.


You told him you wanted a divorce and then got upset that he masturbated instead of having (bad) sex with you?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

She has said more than once that he doesn't light her fire. Masturbating while thinking about having a celebrity do her gets her off in short order. She has trouble getting off with her husband so sex with him is really bad. And he knows full well how she feels.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> laid like tile


I must admit I have never heard that one! Damn funny!


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

No I wasn’t upset at him for not wanting to have sex with me. I mean yes I want to be desired and it’s been a long time since I’ve felt that way. Do I get why he doesn’t desire me? Oh yes I do. I hate myself. He hates himself. We’re in a really bad place individually and as a couple. I’m upset about a lot of it, mainly my own mistakes and shortcomings.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> You told him you wanted a divorce and then got upset that he masturbated instead of having (bad) sex with you?
> 
> View attachment 89428


The problem is we’ve mainly been masturbating solo for a long time, well before I told him I wanted a divorce. Just the thought that this is what we’ve been doing for quite some time and I convinced myself that I was ok with it and it didn’t bother me is upsetting.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> The problem is we’ve mainly been masturbating solo for a long time, well before I told him I wanted a divorce. Just the thought that this is what we’ve been doing for quite some time and I convinced myself that I was ok with it and it didn’t bother me is upsetting.


You may have just told him you want a divorce but IIRC you’ve told him in the past how negatively you view sex. I’m surprised he has even attempted sex since hearing all of that.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> You may have just told him you want a divorce but IIRC you’ve told him in the past how negatively you view sex. I’m surprised he has even attempted sex since hearing all of that.


I can’t disagree with you. He definitely stopped initiating much after I told him how I felt about sex.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I can’t disagree with you. He definitely stopped initiating much after I told him how I felt about sex.


You are essentially describing what I consider bad sex. No way would I ever want to be in that position again. There is no reason for a woman to be in my bed if she finds me as “meh” or repulsive. It’s very clear to most people when the partner does not want to be there, asks for things to hurry up, is distracted, whatever.
Good chance your husband would prefer no sex to bad sex.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> You are essentially describing what I consider bad sex. No way would I ever want to be in that position again. There is no reason for a woman to be in my bed if she finds me as “meh” or repulsive. It’s very clear to most people when the partner does not want to be there, asks for things to hurry up, is distracted, whatever.
> Good chance your husband would prefer no sex to bad sex.


She doesn’t like sex. Hopefully that will be communicated to the next dude before he commits. Those are the dangers, land mines and pitfalls out there to be navigated.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> You are essentially describing what I consider bad sex. No way would I ever want to be in that position again. There is no reason for a woman to be in my bed if she finds me as “meh” or repulsive. It’s very clear to most people when the partner does not want to be there, asks for things to hurry up, is distracted, whatever.
> Good chance your husband would prefer no sex to bad sex.


I’m not disagreeing. I don’t think he finds me attractive and I don’t find him attractive. I think we used to find things about each other attractive many years ago and we’ve been staying together out of fear, laziness, and complacency. I don’t think either of us ever had an intense physical desire for the other and although we each tried to pretend or forced for a long time, it’s become obvious to both of us now so of course we don’t want to have sex with the other person.

It’s always been hard to tell how much he was enjoying sex when we did have it. He was always silent during it which was a huge turn off to me. It made me feel like he wasn’t very into it and I frequently got the feeling he was having to think of other things/other women to be able to finish. That’s bad sex. Now I could definitely just be misinterpreting his silence as disinterest in me.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> She doesn’t like sex. Hopefully that will be communicated to the next dude before he commits. Those are the dangers, land mines and pitfalls out there to be navigated.


I think I could really like sex if I had it with a guy that made me horny! I’ve never been with such a man. I’ve never been with a man who made my pxxxy wet, hot, throbbing with desire EVER. I have met men who have made me feel that way so I know it can happen to me, just never been with any of them intimately. I think I could actually surprise myself and find that sex is really enjoyable and that I could actually have sex and be turned on by the person I’m doing it with to the point where I don’t find them a distraction to my orgasm. That’s what I’m realizing I want to experience so I’m developing a lot of resentment in my current state (my fault, not his). First I have to work on myself so that I like myself, can find my confidence again, and looking really good so I can attractive the type of man I want to be with.I can’t get that type of man right now. Who would want to be with somebody who hates themself as much as I currently do? It’s not attractive. I plan to make myself look unrecognizable to the person I am right now.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> She doesn’t like sex.


She likes sex, just has never had partnered sex she enjoyed despite trying with 5 partners and then her husband. All partnered sex has been “bad”. With the right larger than average man she might be very happy.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I’m not disagreeing. I don’t think he finds me attractive and I don’t find him attractive. I think we used to find things about each other attractive many years ago and we’ve been staying together out of fear, laziness, and complacency. I don’t think either of us ever had an intense physical desire for the other and although we each tried to pretend or forced for a long time, it’s become obvious to both of us now so of course we don’t want to have sex with the other person.
> 
> It’s always been hard to tell how much he was enjoying sex when we did have it. He was always silent during it which was a huge turn off to me. It made me feel like he wasn’t very into it and I frequently got the feeling he was having to think of other things/other women to be able to finish. That’s bad sex. Now I could definitely just be misinterpreting his silence as disinterest in me.


I don’t understand? In you’re other thread you said sex was stupid and people look stupid having it. Like animals. It is gross. Now you’re mad he didn’t talk dirty during sex??


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> She likes sex, just has never had partnered sex she enjoyed despite trying with 5 partners and then her husband. All partnered sex has been “bad”. With the right larger than average man she might be very happy.


Not so sure. Read her thread about some of the things she said about sex. More recently, she has popped up in other threads and said it is not all all important in a relationship and not anywhere near the top part of her list. LAND MINE!


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> I don’t understand? In you’re other thread you said sex was stupid and people look stupid having it. Like animals. It is gross. Now you’re mad he didn’t talk dirty during sex??


I didn’t want him to talk dirty necessarily. I mean he never made any noise or really did anything to let me know he enjoyed anything that I did. No sounds, not a moan ever, nothing!

I think I find sex “gross” and “embarrassing” because that’s how I feel when I’m doing it. I feel that way because I’m not blinded by the lust and arousal that most people feel when they have enjoyable sex. I’ve developed a disdain for sex over the years because I don’t really enjoy it but felt like it was something I was expected to be doing. Yes, sometimes I think the degree by which people are controlled by sex is comical but maybe thinking I was above all of those biological urges was just a defense mechanism. I’ve been kissing out due to my own bad choices and mistakes so I developed a lot of thoughts about sex. I don’t know. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and soul searching about it lately because I really just want to be a happy satisfied person. I know that my relationship is a huge problem in my life and sex/attraction has a lot to do with it too.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I think I could really like sex if I had it with a guy that made me horny! I’ve never been with such a man. I’ve never been with a man who made my pxxxy wet, hot, throbbing with desire EVER. I have met men who have made me feel that way so I know it can happen to me, just never been with any of them intimately. I think I could actually surprise myself and find that sex is really enjoyable and that I could actually have sex and be turned on by the person I’m doing it with to the point where I don’t find them a distraction to my orgasm. That’s what I’m realizing I want to experience so I’m developing a lot of resentment in my current state (my fault, not his). First I have to work on myself so that I like myself, can find my confidence again, and looking really good so I can attractive the type of man I want to be with.I can’t get that type of man right now. Who would want to be with somebody who hates themself as much as I currently do? It’s not attractive. I plan to make myself look unrecognizable to the person I am right now.


You’d have to change your entire outlook on sex based upon your prior posts. But I also know you are confused and I think you’ve been enlightened recently. Good luck! 🙂


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

A person that had never had anything but bad sex could think it was all a waste of time. But let the right body with the right skill set arrive and give them a fantastic time, their attitude will totally change. And they will thirst for more.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> Not so sure. Read her thread about some of the things she said about sex. More recently, she has popped up in other threads and said it is not all all important in a relationship and not anywhere near the top part of her list. LAND MINE!


I’m not completely sure how I feel about sex. I also recently said in another thread that if I could even manage to list my top 5 “needs” in a relationship, none of them are currently being met. I don’t see sex as all that amazing because I’ve never had amazing sex! Maybe I’d place it higher on the list if I actually knew how great it could be, but I don’t. I know how strong my arousal and attraction to some men is. I know what an amazing orgasm feels like. I’d like to have both in the same package for once. All my amazing orgasms come from a machine and always have. Sex might not ever be at the top of my “needs” list and I’m not claiming that I think it’ll ever be #1 for me. I do feel that a major “need” is to find somebody that I’m extremely physically and emotionally attracted to. I’ve realized that that’s a HUGE thing I’m missing out on and I’d really love to be with a guy who just does it for me not only physically but even more importantly just his character is so attractive that I want him to screw me day and night. I’d also love to find somebody who was financiall responsible and stable, who shared interests and hobbies with me, who I could envision being the type of father I want for my children. I’m with a man I don’t like and don’t respect. He’s irresponsible with money and incredibly unmotivated. I have a lot of wants and it’s taken me until I reached my mid-30s to realize the things I want/need in a man.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> You’d have to change your entire outlook on sex based upon your prior posts. But I also know you are confused and I think you’ve been enlightened recently. Good luck! 🙂


I’ve come to realize that most likely my entire outlook on sex is due to the men I’ve been with and all of my previous sexual experiences. I don’t know for sure. If I get out there and find guys that seem to tick all of my boxes and who make me feel incredibly aroused and the sex is still just so so then I’ll probably have to admit defeat and that I’m just “this way” and accept a single life.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I’m not disagreeing. I don’t think he finds me attractive and I don’t find him attractive. I think we used to find things about each other attractive many years ago and we’ve been staying together out of fear, laziness, and complacency. I don’t think either of us ever had an intense physical desire for the other and although we each tried to pretend or forced for a long time, it’s become obvious to both of us now so of course we don’t want to have sex with the other person.
> 
> It’s always been hard to tell how much he was enjoying sex when we did have it. He was always silent during it which was a huge turn off to me. It made me feel like he wasn’t very into it and I frequently got the feeling he was having to think of other things/other women to be able to finish. That’s bad sex. Now I could definitely just be misinterpreting his silence as disinterest in me.


Busy, are you serious?

I’m asking seriously - did you ever bother asking him to make noise during sex because it would inform you that he was enjoying it?

You know how high my drive is. I don’t make noise during sex!!! I don’t. Not until I orgasm. If my partner WANTED me to and asked me to do that, I would in a heart beat!

why do you think the worst in every situation? Why do you think he was was thinking about other things like porn or other women while he was silent?

want to know something crazy?

I did the same thing too. While I was silent, my mind would wander while I had sex with my ex wife.

want to know what I was thinking about?

other times in my life that I had sex with my exwife. That’s how much I loved her. I enjoyed thinking about her while I had sex with her.

don’t just assume the worst. You are always going to be disappointed.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I have a lot of wants and it’s taken me until I reached my mid-30s to realize the things I want/need in a man.


Mid forties is a decade away. Mid fifties two decades. Life is soon over. Time is a wasting


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Busy, are you serious?
> 
> I’m asking seriously - did you ever bother asking him to make noise during sex because it would inform you that he was enjoying it?
> 
> ...


I have told him that I find it hot when a guy makes some noise, says something, or maybe pulls my hair or does something to show me that he likes what I’m doing. Takes charge, rams me, anything to show me how into he is. 
I wasn’t asking for dramatic moaning or fake porno stuff. He said he just didn’t like to make noise and it made him feel weird. He did try but I could tell it was forced so it was almost worse than being quiet. He also never makes noise when he orgasms except to say he’s coming.

He insisted that he was always thinking about me. Sometimes it just seemed like it was taking a really long time for him to get there so I assumed between no signs of encouragement that he enjoyed what I was doing and taking a long time to orgasm that he wasn’t into me. He said he was holding back so that I could get there. Well then that only made it harder for me because of he backs off too many times he will eventually lose it and not be able to orgasm. So then even though he didn’t say it, I felt rushed or too preoccupied if he was going to lose it because he was waiting for me and I was taking forever. Things got better once I got the right toys to get me there faster but by then our sex life was so damaged that I would orgasm very quickly and he would not orgasm maybe 30% of the time.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I have told him that I find it hot when a guy makes some noise, says something, or maybe pulls my hair or does something to show me that he likes what I’m doing. Takes charge, rams me, anything to show me how into he is.
> I wasn’t asking for dramatic moaning or fake porno stuff. He said he just didn’t like to make noise and it made him feel weird. He did try but I could tell it was forced so it was almost worse than being quiet. He also never makes noise when he orgasms except to say he’s coming.
> 
> He insisted that he was always thinking about me. Sometimes it just seemed like it was taking a really long time for him to get there so I assumed between no signs of encouragement that he enjoyed what I was doing and taking a long time to orgasm that he wasn’t into me. He said he was holding back so that I could get there. Well then that only made it harder for me because of he backs off too many times he will eventually lose it and not be able to orgasm. So then even though he didn’t say it, I felt rushed or too preoccupied if he was going to lose it because he was waiting for me and I was taking forever. Things got better once I got the right toys to get me there faster but by then our sex life was so damaged that I would orgasm very quickly and he would not orgasm maybe 30% of the time.


Maybe its me, but in order for sex to be enjoyable it has to be raw, spontaneous, and unscripted. I think if a woman was telling me to do all these things it would kind of kill it entirely. Then i might be second guessing everything im doing. 

As such, i could never do roleplay or any if that other stuff either. 

Small hints, cues etc would be cool, but it would have to be very subtle and timed perfectly. 

Im not knocking any of it, just perhaps voicing a personal opinion. I think perhaps many guys(or even women) would feel the same, but I dunno.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> Maybe its me, but in order for sex to be enjoyable it has to be raw, spontaneous, and unscripted. I think if a woman was telling me to do all these things it would kind of kill it entirely. Then i might be second guessing everything im doing.
> 
> As such, i could never do roleplay or any if that other stuff either.
> 
> ...


Thats the same reason I have never liked "scheduled sex". I know it works for some but I would have trouble with it.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> Maybe its me, but in order for sex to be enjoyable it has to be raw, spontaneous, and unscripted. I think if a woman was telling me to do all these things it would kind of kill it entirely. Then i might be second guessing everything im doing.
> 
> As such, i could never do roleplay or any if that other stuff either.
> 
> ...


I hear you and I don’t tell him to do all sorts of things. In fact, one of my complaints is that he’s too passive in bed and doesn’t take charge and do what he wants or find ways to please me without me having to tell him every thing that I want to do. He will do anything I ask and he even said he’d roleplay if I wanted that (I don’t). The thing is, having to dictate every move for the other person also isn’t a turn on. I do think communication about likes and dislikes is necessary, but there’s a difference. I get that at this point, knowing how I’ve said I feel about sex and the issues we’ve had, why would he try to take charge and do what he wants?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Thats the same reason I have never liked "scheduled sex". I know it works for some but I would have trouble with it.


Nearly all of ours is scheduled. At our age we might forget 😐


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> . In fact, one of my complaints is that he’s too passive in bed and doesn’t take charge and do what he wants or find ways to please me without me having to tell him every thing that I want to do. He will do anything I ask and he even said he’d roleplay if I wanted that (I don’t). The thing is, having to dictate every move for the other person also isn’t a turn on.


Dont your husbands disorders have a bearing on this? I would think his responses to you are determined by them


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I hear you and I don’t tell him to do all sorts of things. In fact, one of my complaints is that he’s too passive in bed and doesn’t take charge and do what he wants or find ways to please me without me having to tell him every thing that I want to do. He will do anything I ask and he even said he’d roleplay if I wanted that (I don’t). The thing is, having to dictate every move for the other person also isn’t a turn on. I do think communication about likes and dislikes is necessary, but there’s a difference. I get that at this point, knowing how I’ve said I feel about sex and the issues we’ve had, why would he try to take charge and do what he wants?


Understood. 

Eh. It almost sounds like he lacks previous experience or may have some other hangups?. But i dunno. Just a guess.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> You know how high my drive is. I don’t make noise during sex!!! I don’t. Not until I orgasm. If my partner WANTED me to and asked me to do that, I would in a heart beat!


This could be a pro upgrade for you.

I read on Reddit a few years back most women wanted men to be more vocal so I started going ham including dirty talk, “oh yeah”s etc… Did it make it better for her? Dunno but she is also making more noise and I like it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Understood.
> 
> Eh. It almost sounds like he lacks previous experience or may have some other hangups?. But i dunno. Just a guess.


He is on spectrum and depressed with PTSD and OCD


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> This could be a pro upgrade for you.
> 
> I read on Reddit a few years back most women wanted men to be more vocal so I started going ham including dirty talk, “oh yeah”s etc… Did it make it better for her? Dunno but she is also making more noise and I like it.


I would try. It would be natural as well for me. Wouldn't be an issue at all - of course when I'm being told to shut up because she is concentrating, or that is too dirty, or be quiet the kids might hear you.....

It takes quite a toll on the psyche after awhile.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> He is on spectrum and depressed with PTSD and OCD


Thank you for that info. Sure. That would explain a lot of it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Thank you for that info. Sure. That would explain a lot of it.


It took many pages, lots of questions to uncover it. Before that, her husband got beat up a lot for being unskilled, abusive, etc.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Dont your husbands disorders have a bearing on this? I would think his responses to you are determined by them


Yes, that plays a big role. He’s not currently getting help for his issues. Sometimes he’s very focused on working on them and then other times he just neglects everything he should be doing to successfully live with his problems.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> He is on spectrum and depressed with PTSD and OCD


Not OCD but multiple forms of anxiety. Everything else, yes.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

I think "bad" is often subjective. I mentioned in another thread that 35 years ago, I was having incredible, kama sutra level sex with my then GF, and she, as it turns out, was bored by that. 

I've also seen the flipside. Another woman I dated, unspeakably beautiful (to the point where every guy I hung out with was too intimidated to ask her out), was the most self involved lover I've been with. Bad - had zero interest in my pleasure. But SHE was over the moon and would all but attack me when I came to her apartment. Her stunningly beautiful body kept me around longer than I should have stayed. In that sense, we were both being selfish.

So what's bad sex? Is it just incompatible sexual interests sometimes? If so, I'll take that over no sex, for a while. But not for the long term.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I'm not sure what bad sex means unless you don't orgasm. I guess women have more bad sex experiences than men.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

All jokes aside, so what is bad sex to me?

Well, for me, bad sex starts with poor hygiene. Please bring a clean mouth and body parts to bed.

Bad sex for me would be when my partner is too much under the influence of alcohol or drugs of any kind. Some cold and allergy medications can make someone too drowsy, which likely will lead to bad sex. 

In my opinion over time, if either person in the relationship is sexually dissatisfied for any reasons, it's bad sex.

Bad sex is when your lover fails to listen to your suggestion and tips on what feels good for them. Being proactive and following his or her suggestions helps to avoid bad sex. Being a 'good lover' is also being a good communicator, and an even better listener. 

Being with a distracted lover can lead to bad sex. Pay attention and be in the moment for each other.

When there is no give and take, that leads to bad sex. Be receptive to each others wants and needs.

If you or your partner performs on automatic pilot, that can lead to monotonous bad sex. Change things up to avoid the boredom.

But most importantly, especially for the men, be patient, kind, giving, and gentle when necessary. Your woman will never accuse you of giving her bad sex.

Masturbation can lead to bad, or no sex at all as well. However, it can be a tool that helps both partners when it is not used to replace couples sex. Women can better lead their partners if they explore their own bodies through masturbation.

Porn can have it's place in some relationships, but it can lead to bad sex if it is forced on either partner. It can lead to NO SEX if it is used by either partner as a replacement for couples sex through solo masturbation.

Sure, as a man, I want to get myself off and experience a good orgasm, but not till the woman I love is fully satisfied. Her orgasms will always cum first! Pun intended.

I could go on, but I think I've covered a lot on what I think leads to bad sex.

JMHO, so flame away.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

After reading this entire thread, I have to admit, most of the kinds of bad sex people have described, I've never experienced. Partly because I've only been with one man, but partly because I wouldn't put up with it.

The only "bad sex" I've experienced is when my husband finishes too quickly, leaving me unsatisfied. This rarely happens and is always accidental. Or when he doesn't seem very turned on. Again this rarely happens and is usually when he's overly tired or stressed.

No sex I've experienced for weeks or months at a time. It's miserable. And if it goes on too long, you don't even have a marriage anymore.

So for me, as long as bad sex is only occasional and is a stepping stone on the way to a future better sexual experience, then I would prefer it to no sex. But if bad sex becomes a regular occurrence, then it's as bad as no sex and it's time to fix the relationship or move on.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> After reading this entire thread, I have to admit, most of the kinds of bad sex people have described, I've never experienced. Partly because I've only been with one man, but partly because I wouldn't put up with it.
> 
> The only "bad sex" I've experienced is when my husband finishes too quickly, leaving me unsatisfied. This rarely happens and is always accidental. Or when he doesn't seem very turned on. Again this rarely happens and is usually when he's overly tired or stressed.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. Well written


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Excellent post. Well written


Why, thank you!


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Why, thank you!


YW. You should offer counseling to people


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ah_sorandy said:


> But most importantly, especially for the men, be patient, kind, giving, and gentle when necessary. Your woman will never accuse you of giving her bad sex.


Mostly, say commonly that's the popular position to have but not always.

Bear in mind some women sometimes want the exact opposite to make them happiest. Can't be overly worried about it when called for.

Edited to add: and sometimes louder is better and seems to create mutual loudness! ❤


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Mostly, say commonly that's the popular position to have but not always.
> 
> Bear in mind some women sometimes want the exact opposite to make them happiest. Can't be overly worried about it when called for.
> 
> Edited to add: and sometimes louder is better and seems to create mutual loudness! ❤


Loud is good


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I’ve been trying not to take matters into my hands so to speak and caved last night and did it as I was in the mood. Of course my wife sure wasn’t in the mood so bad sex wasn’t even an option. 

I feel guilty for going solo though. Anyone else ever feel this way?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Guilty solo? Nope. I mean sometimes you just need to cum. If she’s not willing to participate - pick any reason, wives have many - i go solo.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Guilty solo? Nope. I mean sometimes you just need to cum. If she’s not willing to participate - pick any reason, wives have many - i go solo.


In MY experience, it's HUSBANDS who have the excuses for not wanting to participate.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> In MY experience, it's HUSBANDS who have the excuses for not wanting to participate.


Wow. That never happens here!


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Loud is good


Yes it is! It shows enjoyment and appreciation. The louder the woman I love is, the more I will give her in my excitement.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Guilty solo? Nope. I mean sometimes you just need to cum. If she’s not willing to participate - pick any reason, wives have many - i go solo.


Oh I know all of the reasons too very well. Masturbating solo has been how I have lived all of my married life.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> In MY experience, it's HUSBANDS who have the excuses for not wanting to participate.


I couldn't ever do it, but there are guys out there that would eff a warthog that's been rolling around in its own shyt all day.....You just haven't had that opportunity.... 😂


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> I couldn't ever do it, but there are guys out there that would eff a warthog that's been rolling around in its own shyt all day.....You just haven't had that opportunity.... 😂


Wait. What? Lol


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> I couldn't ever do it, but there are guys out there that would eff a warthog that's been rolling around in its own shyt all day.....You just haven't had that opportunity.... 😂


Well, THAT'S a sexy image....Lol!!


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Thanks everyone, I don’t feel as bad now. I just hate that masturbation has been my primary sexual outlet in my marriage. My wife has body image issues yet I tell her all the time how hot I think she is. I was hoping she would have at least offered to help me last night but nope she rolled over and went to sleep. Then again she doesn’t like touching me there anyway. 

I guess that’s why I say no sex over bad, as at least I don’t have to feel unwanted during the act. I know my issue is I’m a very good provider, and I have tried being a good lover but she just doesn’t respond, and when we discuss it she says she doesn’t know why. 

I just want a woman to desire me in that way, get excited with seeing me naked, and be willing to touch me without feeling like she hates it.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> I just want a woman to desire me in that way, get excited with seeing me naked, and be willing to touch me without feeling like she hates it.


Sadly, it sounds like the only way you are going to be able to be with a woman like that is if you find another partner.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Well, THAT'S a sexy image....Lol!!


Yikes!


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Sadly, it sounds like the only way you are going to be able to be with a woman like that is if you find another partner.


Do some women actually respond that way? I keep getting told that women are more on the responsive desire and aren’t like us guys who get turned on when we see a woman naked.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Do some women actually respond that way? I keep getting told that women are more on the responsive desire and aren’t like us guys who get turned on when we see a woman naked.


I guess it depends on the woman. I don't think women are as excited about naked men as men are about naked women, but I think most women who are attracted to a man enjoy seeing his body naked.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> I guess it depends on the woman. I don't think women are as excited about naked men as men are about naked women, but I think most women who are attracted to a man enjoy seeing his body naked.


Thank you for replying. I guess my wife isn’t attracted to me in that way. She was when we were dating and we first got married.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> I guess it depends on the woman. I don't think women are as excited about naked men as men are about naked women, but I think most women who are attracted to a man enjoy seeing his body naked.


True....

Let's face it....Most guys are ugly as hell....i know a lot of guys...with only two exceptions I can think of, none of the guys I know care one iota about their grooming, their physique, their general appearance, how they smell.....anything. 

Sure there are some rough looking women, but at least they seem to care a little more than the guys do. 

Maybe that's a perspective from a hetero male, but looking at a lot of these guys walking down the street, and I do wonder if their women are like " yeah. Gimme some of that!!" LOL.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Loud is good


Thankfully we live in the country away from anyone. Still wife gets concerned someone walking by on the road 50 yards away will hear us in the morning when it is quiet. We aren't THAT loud.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> True....
> 
> Let's face it....Most guys are ugly as hell....i know a lot of guys...with only two exceptions I can think of, none of the guys I know care one iota about their grooming, their physique, their general appearance, how they smell.....anything.
> 
> ...


You only know 2 men who give one iota for their personal grooming and hygiene? This is terrifying. One thing I can say for my husband is that his personal grooming and hygiene are top notch. Probably even more so than some women I know. I feel like I know more than a few other men who maintain themselves in that regard.

Either way, I’ve never been made instantly horny by looking at even the most attractive man’s naked physique. You show some titties in a movie and my husband can get a boner. In saying that, seeing a naked woman in a movie usually arouses me more than seeing a naked man too. I have no lesbian fantasies and can honestly say I’ve never been attracted to a woman (although I think many women are beautiful), so I’m not sure what that’s about.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> You only know 2 men who give one iota for their personal grooming and hygiene? This is terrifying. One thing I can say for my husband is that his personal grooming and hygiene are top notch. Probably even more so than some women I know. I feel like I know more than a few other men who maintain themselves in that regard.
> 
> Either way, I’ve never been made instantly horny by looking at even the most attractive man’s naked physique. You show some titties in a movie and my husband can get a boner. In saying that, seeing a naked woman in a movie usually arouses me more than seeing a naked man too. I have no lesbian fantasies and can honestly say I’ve never been attracted to a woman (although I think many women are beautiful), so I’m not sure what that’s about.


I may have exaggerated, and to be fair, a lot of these guys are blue collar, hard working types...They aren't sitting in desks all day long and work with their hands and bodies.....And my idea of what I am talking about may differ from yours, but I dunno...

As to the second part of your statement, that's basically what I am talking about, when I say most women can get away with not being perfect and still being sexy...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

So women as a rule aren’t attracted to gym rats? Biceps, six packs, male endowment, size of his wallet (ok not a physical attribute)? So why do JJ Watt and “the Rock” have such a following?

Maybe they say such, but seriously doubt the truth of their words. When I got in shape more than two decades ago, and am no gym rat, wife took interest in the muscles, still makes appreciative comments.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> So women as a rule aren’t attracted to gym rats? Biceps, six packs, male endowment, size of his wallet (ok not a physical attribute)? So why do JJ Watt and “the Rock” have such a following?
> 
> Maybe they say such, but seriously doubt the truth of their words. When I got in shape more than two decades ago, and am no gym rat, wife took interest in the muscles, still makes appreciative comments.


There are plenty of men who are good-looking with muscles who come here to complain about wives who don't want to have sex with them.

"Gym rats" might be able to generate interest from women, but muscles and looks alone will never be able to MAINTAIN interest from a woman.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> There are plenty of men who are good-looking with muscles who come here to complain about wives who don't want to have sex with them.


Raises hand timidly. 

Sorry I just couldn't resist Fact is I am fat and ugly as hell but it seemed like a good joke. LOL


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> So women as a rule aren’t attracted to gym rats? Biceps, six packs, male endowment, size of his wallet (ok not a physical attribute)? So why do JJ Watt and “the Rock” have such a following?
> 
> Maybe they say such, but seriously doubt the truth of their words. When I got in shape more than two decades ago, and am no gym rat, wife took interest in the muscles, still makes appreciative comments.


Many women are attracted to men with a good, fit physique. Most women that I’ve ever talked to about things like this are not actually very into a man with too many muscles though. There’s sort of like a perfect range and somebody who is just too muscly definitely doesn’t do it for me but I definitely like a guy who looks like he works out to a degree. For me it’s not even about the muscles or definition as much as it just shows that he takes care of himself and can be motivated and dedicated to something. Of course there are women out there who love a ton of huge muscles.

I think the thing is that most women don’t instantly get sopping wet and highly aroused just by seeing a guy with a nice body, whatever their personal definition of “nice” is. Some probably do. In contrast, I think many men can easily get erections and be ready to go just by seeing a very physically attractive woman in the nude (and often not even in the nude).


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

GoodDad5 said:


> Do some women actually respond that way? I keep getting told that women are more on the responsive desire and aren’t like us guys who get turned on when we see a woman naked.


ABsolutely many women are not like men. We do not get turned on by seeing a man naked. Many are responsive desire.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> Thanks everyone, I don’t feel as bad now. I just hate that masturbation has been my primary sexual outlet in my marriage. My wife has body image issues yet I tell her all the time how hot I think she is. I was hoping she would have at least offered to help me last night but nope she rolled over and went to sleep. Then again she doesn’t like touching me there anyway.
> 
> I guess that’s why I say no sex over bad, as at least I don’t have to feel unwanted during the act. I know my issue is I’m a very good provider, and I have tried being a good lover but she just doesn’t respond, and when we discuss it she says she doesn’t know why.
> 
> I just want a woman to desire me in that way, get excited with seeing me naked, and be willing to touch me without feeling like she hates it.


Took me until coming here and receiving a beating from some good people. 

How bad do you want to have a woman desire you and get excited to see you? How bad do you want a woman to touch you and like it?


You just said you are a good provider. That's awfully nice of you to keep providing for her to meet her needs. I bet she feels nice and safe and secure jn the life you are providing. 


Soooooo...... what happens when you start to take that away? Will she be upset that you are no longer meeting her needs?

Sounds like a GREAT conversation starter about how both her needs and his needs are important in your marriage. You are already at the point that took me DECADES to realize. No sex at all is preferable to bad sex. Sounds like you have nothing to lose - and I mean that. Nothing is rolling over in bed and going to sleep after another day where you provided.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> There are plenty of men who are good-looking with muscles who come here to complain about wives who don't want to have sex with them.
> 
> "Gym rats" might be able to generate interest from women, but muscles and looks alone will never be able to MAINTAIN interest from a woman.


I get it. Years ago I used to date a really hot girl that was always trying to have sex. The trouble with her was she was about as annoying as a female could possibly get. As attracted to her as I was, eventually I got to where I lost almost all interest just from her personality.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Either way, I’ve never been made instantly horny by looking at even the most attractive man’s naked physique.


Ditto this. While I notice and can appreciate a good-looking man, it's not a _sexual_ appreciation. It's not a "hey I want to jump his bones" thing, it's "hey he looks hawt".

Admittedly I'm not very visual in any aspect of life so I'm the last person who'd be turned on by looks alone but I think there is so much more to sexual arousal for many women.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Corgi Mum said:


> Ditto this. While I notice and can appreciate a good-looking man, it's not a _sexual_ appreciation. It's not a "hey I want to jump his bones" thing, it's "hey he looks hawt".
> 
> Admittedly I'm not very visual in any aspect of life so I'm the last person who'd be turned on by looks alone but I think there is so much more to sexual arousal for many women.


In contrast, as a guy, I see an attractive woman at the store and I think "I wonder what she looks like naked or what is she like in bed?"

I think that general idea is also why men are more drawn to porn than women...in general of course. If I want to have some visual fun, I watch some porn and it achieves that goal. I am not necessarily drawn to the looks of the women or anything about them aside from them just having sex.

Probably biological in nature from the very basic instinct of males needing to reproduce.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

For me, seeing an attractive-looking man is exciting. I think, "Wow!" My heart rate may go up (especially if I'm seeing him in person instead of a picture). But I don't get aroused. Arousal can come from thinking about sexual situations or fantasies (with or without a visual). Or, of course, if said attractive man makes advances on me. But just seeing a picture of a man, watching a video of a man, or seeing a man in person is not going to arouse me unless I imagine (or experience) him being with me intimately. That's why I can't see how a man can get aroused to the point of orgasm by watching porn unless he's imagining himself with the actress.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I've seen women in person that I found so attractive that I could think of literally nothing else, just how bad I wanted to have sex with them. My heart will race enough that I can feel it pounding in my head.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> That's why I can't see how a man can get aroused to the point of orgasm by watching porn unless he's imagining himself with the actress.


When I watch porn, its not imagining myself with that woman but that "situation". i.e. sex on a beach or others watching or a threesome. Something I have not done. Thats the fantasy of it. Its not the actual person, its what they are doing. There are guys in the sex scenes but I am not attracted to them nor even really watching them...its the entire scene as a whole...not just the actress.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> its the entire scene as a whole...not just the actress.


That is evidently the draw of group sex. One poster in here talked about being on beach with multiple other couples. No swapping, but the sights and sounds were amazing. Another talked about he and his wife doing it with couple they know watching. Not participating, just watching them.

Not our cup of tea, but whatever floats a person's boat.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I gotta chuckle at some of these responses......

So now, ALL guys, even the ones with great bodies/physiques do nothing for the typical woman in terms of arousal...

Years ago, I worked as a doorman/bouncer in a strip club....They would occasionally run these hen parties(bachelorette and just get togethers) where they would have a couple of hotter male strippers come in and they would have a private room...

Let's just put it this way....They were FAR more raunchy and jacked up than most of the bachelor parties we ran...They put the guys to shame, even the conservative looking and older women.... Stuff I saw, I don't even want to talk about it...lol..

So either they were putting on an act, or some of you aint the typical woman, but just to be sure, many women do get aroused at the sight of a nice male specimen.... 😉


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> When I watch porn, its not imagining myself with that woman but that "situation". i.e. sex on a beach or others watching or a threesome. Something I have not done. Thats the fantasy of it. Its not the actual person, its what they are doing. There are guys in the sex scenes but I am not attracted to them nor even really watching them...its the entire scene as a whole...not just the actress.


It would make me feel better about my husband's previous porn usage, if he felt the way you do. But I think he was aroused by the women themselves. That's why he did searches for "big t*tt*es" and had clips of just those women with no other actors or actresses. And if he was aroused by the women themselves, it's highly unlikely he wasn't thinking/wishing/imagining himself with them. To me that's mental cheating.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> I gotta chuckle at some of these responses......
> 
> So now, ALL guys, even the ones with great bodies/physiques do nothing for the typical woman in terms of arousal...
> 
> ...


If the male stripper is making eye contact while stripping or dancing or if he makes physical contact with the woman in any way, then that is not simply a visual. The male stripper is making advances (although fake) on the woman, so, of course that would be arousing to her. The same as it is arousing for a female stripper giving attention to a male patron. I was saying that seeing an attractive man from a distance (who is not trying to entice or flirt with me) or seeing a photo or video of an attractive man is not sexually arousing to me. If an attractive man is showing interest in me, then that would be arousing.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> I gotta chuckle at some of these responses......
> 
> So now, ALL guys, even the ones with great bodies/physiques do nothing for the typical woman in terms of arousal...
> 
> ...


A lot of those guys wear prosthetic....parts in their underwear to seem more endowed than they really are. A friend of mine owns a local dive bar and they host these parties on occasion. Also, you're very right about how the ladies respond to them. Strip clubs with men watching women are often kinda quiet, calm, and we can't touch the women. When male strippers come out, the ladies scream their fool heads off non-stop and a lot of them are straight up having sex right there.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Ew, male strippers are SO not attractive to me.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Ew, male strippers are SO not attractive to me.


Same.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Well, I stand corrected on what I posted in this thread the other day.

I met a man who I fell instantly in love/lust with today based primarily on appearance alone. It had nothing to do with muscles though. Looks wise he just had everything I love in a guy and he was definitely fit but just toned and not overly muscly. He was with his 3 little kids. If a man can make me feel a zing in my p*ssy then you know this is an attractive man, ok? Yes, I actually felt something between my legs looking at this guy which is almost impossible for me normally.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Same.


 Here I thought you were front row at all the gay strip reviews every Friday night! Oh maybe you are…as one of the dancers 😂


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Well, I stand corrected on what I posted in this thread the other day.
> 
> I met a man who I fell instantly in love/lust with today based primarily on appearance alone. It had nothing to do with muscles though. Looks wise he just had everything I love in a guy and he was definitely fit but just toned and not overly muscly. He was with his 3 little kids. If a man can make me feel a zing in my p*ssy then you know this is an attractive man, ok? Yes, I actually felt something between my legs looking at this guy which is almost impossible for me normally.


He didn’t have his pants rolled up at the ankles did he?


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> He didn’t have his pants rolled up at the ankles did he?


No….

Should I even ask?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Chet8625 said:


> It's easier to improve bad sex than it is no sex.


Not necessarily.
If it’s bad because of a lack of experience, technique, practice, familiarity with each other‘s preferences- sure.
If it’s bad because of a lack of motivation, interest, attraction - not so much.


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> I gotta chuckle at some of these responses......
> 
> So now, ALL guys, even the ones with great bodies/physiques do nothing for the typical woman in terms of arousal...
> 
> ...


My bet is largely putting on an act, feigning sexual arousal, partly because "it's a party so let's get into the spirit of it and let loose" and partly because of social expectations to overtly display appreciation in sexual terms.

But no, merely seeing the hottest male specimen does not arouse me in the slightest. We need to go several levels beyond just the visual for that to happen.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> ABsolutely many women are not like men. We do not get turned on by seeing a man naked. Many are responsive desire.


Many is the key word. But but all. 

And, many DO get turned on by seeing a man naked. 

I do.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Ew, male strippers are SO not attractive to me.


Me either. Most of the pretty ones are gay, many are man-hoes I wouldnt touch with another woman's goodies.,


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> A person that had never had anything but bad sex could think it was all a waste of time. But let the right body with the right skill set arrive and give them a fantastic time, their attitude will totally change. And they will thirst for more.


 I know of a guy just like this, he is gods gift to women , sadly guys like this have been out with Mary, and Lesa and Susie and everybody 
been gods gift he gets around a lot and women Q up for him , 
he knows how to charm the birds off the trees and when he has them charmed he knows how when and what he need to do , 
one woman said about him that he kissed her and just with the stroke of his hand she had the fastest O ever so fast that she felt like a 16 year old boy with premature ejaculation , she said he should open a school or clinic for men that are so bad they think they have a stone barker, and women that have a hard time getting to the end .

I think sex is not talked about in the right way to young people , even today in the schools sex ed has little to do with sex ed 
Most men resort to porn as sex ed and many girls learn from the guys that think they know all from the porn . coupled with the fact that up bringing has thought kids with centuries that sex is dirty, 

A lot of the words used around sex are looked on as swore words , if I USE ANY HERE THEY EVEN GET BLANKED because they offend 

from an early age we say " my privet part " or we give it a list of names that are far from the right name , 
Not to talk of the English speaking world where most English speakers use the wrong word for the woman's privet area the vagina instead of Vulva 








So you think you know your vagina


From tenting to ballooning, here is the ultimate guide to what your vagina can do.



helloclue.com




not only men make this mistake but many Vulva owners all so


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## Mystic Moon (6 mo ago)

Chet8625 said:


> It's easier to improve bad sex than it is no sex.


I'd rather have no sex than bad sex. 

Self pleasuring is a much better option than disappointment with a partner. IMO


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> I think sex is not talked about in the right way to young people , even today in the schools sex ed has little to do with sex ed
> Most men resort to porn as sex ed and many girls learn from the guys that think they know all from the porn . coupled with the fact that up bringing has thought kids with centuries that sex is dirty,


These are wise words! Unfortunately, modern communication has changed nothing, certainly not in the US where this education is essentially non-existent. With the internet what is prevalent is various flavors of porn. Even here on TAM, there are debates about female vs male sexuality. Like discussing whether females are aroused by seeing a naked male. So even adults can't agree on the basics like how can a husband romance his wife. The guy you mentioned learned things correctly somehow. My guess would be he was tutored as a teenager by an older woman in the "ways of women". Most young men don't receive that education, just a bunch of misinformation from their friends who are just as clueless as they are. Add in the girls socialized and taught that sex is dirty, oral sex especially so, masturbation is evil, and there is ideal recipe for all sorts of unhappiness when they marry someone. End up with a woman who thinks oral is nasty and a man who thinks women are all like porn actresses.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

ah_sorandy said:


> When someone doesn't know what bad sex is, wait till they find out what a real lover can do for them.
> 
> I can hardly wait to show the lady I love what she has been missing!
> 
> ...


NO, I CAN hardly wait for this from the man I'm hoping comes along next. hoping it's the one I'm talking to now but? He's FAR FAR away and I have no idea. Fingers crossed and prayers prayed!


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So what say you???
> 
> Is bad sex better than no sex?


No sex, leave, say nothing, don't call


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

Bad sex sucks for sure, but I'd still choose it over no sex. Besides, there is no way improvements wouldn't come if I had anything to say about it, and no improvements can happen without more sex. Fortunately it's not a choice I really have to make lol


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Mystic Moon said:


> I'd rather have no sex than bad sex.
> 
> Self pleasuring is a much better option than disappointment with a partner. IMO


I'm with you. Got a dose of bad sex last night. Rather take care of myself than go through that again.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I’d say, when you’re better off detaching and moving on, any sex with your partner is a potential setback.

It’s harder to smoke hopium if you’re not striking the match.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Ugh, I caved when my wife asked me if I wanted to have sex. I should have said no but I caved as I personally like sex. It was bad as usual though. Same stupid “foreplay” and same starfish position even though I told her what I wanted her to do which she refused. All I asked her was for her to kiss me like I kiss her. She knows how frustrated I am with this and I really had to concentrate to finish. 

I was so close to refusing and I should have but I caved.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> Ugh, I caved when my wife asked me if I wanted to have sex. I should have said no but I caved as I personally like sex. It was bad as usual though. Same stupid “foreplay” and same starfish position even though I told her what I wanted her to do which she refused. All I asked her was for her to kiss me like I kiss her. She knows how frustrated I am with this and I really had to concentrate to finish.
> 
> I was so close to refusing and I should have but I caved.


I know this feeling all too well. Trust me, I know exactly what you are saying here. 

She thinks she is doing you a favor by giving you crumbs. She isn't. It's hard not to accept the crumbs. I get it. I've been there. You will eventually get to the point where you refuse and know you deserve better. If it isn't today, maybe it's tomorrow. At some point you will say enough is enough.


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## Wifey93 (9 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> Ugh, I caved when my wife asked me if I wanted to have sex. I should have said no but I caved as I personally like sex. It was bad as usual though. Same stupid “foreplay” and same starfish position even though I told her what I wanted her to do which she refused. All I asked her was for her to kiss me like I kiss her. She knows how frustrated I am with this and I really had to concentrate to finish.
> 
> I was so close to refusing and I should have but I caved.


I’m sorry …

Why would you offer sex to your partner if you only willing to give them crap experience?

The handful of times my husband initiated sex, he was at least doing what I asked.

I always thought bad sex is better than no sex, but actually, I’m changing my mind.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

AlwaysImproving said:


> Have you tried doing small compliance goals? What I mean is that if she just goes for the starfish, don't start sex yet. Just lay on your side with your hand on her looking at her maybe talking about something. Eventually she'll wonder when you're going to start. No clinical answer, just ask her to roll on her side facing you. Grab her hand and put it where you want it. Etc. "Hey, that's great."
> 
> The goal is to slowly over time break out of the rut and routine. It's unexpected.


I’ve tried variations of that. I have put her hand where I want it and I can tell she’s cringing. I feel like I’m making her do something against her will and it’s a major turnoff. It makes me feel so undesirable that she won’t touch me intimately.


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## Wifey93 (9 mo ago)

It’s cruel. Why bother offering sex if you’re not willing to do anything?


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ve tried variations of that. I have put her hand where I want it and I can tell she’s cringing. I feel like I’m making her do something against her will and it’s a major turnoff. It makes me feel so undesirable that she won’t touch me intimately.


Next step is to find out why. There's obviously something there not being said. Get her buy-in to improve. You have to have a starting point and it takes time and willingness.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

AlwaysImproving said:


> Next step is to find out why. There's obviously something there not being said. Get her buy-in to improve. You have to have a starting point and it takes time and willingness.


And if there is no willingness and they won't tell you why...what then?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

AlwaysImproving said:


> Next step is to find out why. There's obviously something there not being said. Get her buy-in to improve. You have to have a starting point and it takes time and willingness.


Her issue is oral is disgusting, both giving and receiving. Other positions other than missionary/starfish hurt her back, knees, etc. She doesn’t like touching me down there and wants no part of her head being close to it.


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## AlwaysImproving (5 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> And if there is no willingness and they won't tell you why...what then?


Than you have nothing to work with. You can't do it for them. Decide if you'll be a eunuch or not.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> And if there is no willingness and they won't tell you why...what then?


Then don’t spend your life trying to diagnose the problem, trying to understand and explain the other’s disengagement and believing if you’re patient enough and endure enough they’ll see the light.

I suddenly recall from childhood an animated fairy tale about an ice crystal getting stuck in someone’s eye (intentionally by the mean ice queen or something), turning them into an uncaring, unloving selfish and depressed version of their former self. The life mission of the other character, the formerly lighthearted now chronically stressed companion was to find a way to dislodge or melt that ice crystal, and restore their companion back to whole.
Worked out in the fairytale. Doesn’t happen in real life, at least if one makes it his or her life work.

best to take responsibility for finding one’s own happiness, and let the other be how they are going to be

(Answering rhetorically….not directed to you specifically… Actually, mostly directed to myself )


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Just had this yet again tonight. I’ve been desiring sex for a few days now and my wife knew it. She was tired and suggested waiting a day which I said that was fine, then she decided to try tonight anyway, so I knew already this would be bad. Same routine of doing everything to turn her on, hardly anything toward me even though I’ve told her what I wish she would do that I know she wouldn’t balk at. I’ve given up on oral both ways now as it’s not worth the fight. She refuses oral on me and oral on her isn’t worth the stipulations she puts on it. She tells me she really has to think about it to get going because her mind won’t shut off.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

The old saying; it takes two to tango.
If 2 partners (a couple) are into it equally then it can be either good sex or great sex depending on how uninhibited each person is.
But if one person is not truly into it with a look of, hurry up and get it over with, than that`s bad or crap sex that leads to an anti-climax.
In that case one may as well watch a porn movie and do a DIY or go to bed with a good book.
Hope this answers the OP`s question.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> Just had this yet again tonight. I’ve been desiring sex for a few days now and my wife knew it. She was tired and suggested waiting a day which I said that was fine, then she decided to try tonight anyway, so I knew already this would be bad. Same routine of doing everything to turn her on, hardly anything toward me even though I’ve told her what I wish she would do that I know she wouldn’t balk at. I’ve given up on oral both ways now as it’s not worth the fight. She refuses oral on me and oral on her isn’t worth the stipulations she puts on it. She tells me she really has to think about it to get going because her mind won’t shut off.


Just read your posts from late august and now today. 

GD5, you have NOTHING to work with here. Nothing. 

There might be some past trauma here you don’t know about. I’ve had to deal with this before with my exwife. 

From my experience, it isn’t worth dealing with. It just isn’t. If that is her problem and she is unwilling to get help, this will NEVER get better. I KNOW what it feels like to have your woman cringe at touching. I know. It’s terrible. It is the worst feeling ever. 


Here’s the next gut punch - if you were to split from your wife, you can pretty much guarantee that if she ever wanted to date again, she would need to get over these issues she has because no man at our age is going to put up with that crap. So she has a choice - either get over her issues for you, get over her issues for someone else or be alone. 

Bet you she doesn’t choose being alone. 

What I can tell you is that she isn’t a part of the majority of women. You can leave her and find someone that is willing to be sexual with you. You don’t have to live this way. 

I suggest you tell her that it is time for some serious therapy. If she can’t do that, then she is showing that you aren’t all that important to her. If you aren’t important to her… then why stay with her?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I suggest you tell her that it is time for some serious therapy. If she can’t do that, then she is showing that you aren’t all that important to her. If you aren’t important to her… then why stay with her?


In fact @GoodDad5 , didnt she already tell you to divorce her and go find what you wanted because you weren’t getting it from her? Essentially daring you?

i have no idea how successful you would be finding a better match, but for sure nothing is changing with your wife. Guess it depends on how much of a gambler you are. Have to say in your shoes I would roll the dice.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> In fact @GoodDad5 , didnt she already tell you to divorce her and go find what you wanted because you weren’t getting it from her? Essentially daring you?
> 
> i have no idea how successful you would be finding a better match, but for sure nothing is changing with your wife. Guess it depends on how much of a gambler you are. Have to say in your shoes I would roll the dice.


I don’t really consider it to be a gamble. 

When you get a partner like this, being alone is better than being with someone that doesn’t love you. That is something I can say with 100% certainty now. Even better is the attention I’ve been getting from women since my divorce. 

And seriously, that is what you are dealing with good dad. You have a partner that doesn’t love you. If she can’t show you that she loves you, then she doesn’t love you. She is just using you for what you can provide to her. I’m not saying she doesn’t care. She very well may care and try to show you she loves you in different ways - but if those ways don’t make you feel loved… then does it really matter? She cares… but not enough to really show it in the way you need it.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So what say you???
> 
> Is bad sex better than no sex?


A comedian once said, "Gals, you don't have to be good, you just have to be there", not that I completely agree with that.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think most bad sex for guys they still orgasm and just want something different.
> 
> But bad sex for women can mean no orgasm, pain and sometimes damage.
> 
> So how bad are we talking when we say bad sex?


My wife used to have sex, enthusiastically, orgasm the whole nine yards. If she started having discomfort during, I would say let's stop. She would tell me no, she did not want to. 

Afterwards she would lay there curled up quiet. Finally admits to severe abdominal pain. Talk about make your hubby feel like crap, why tell me to not stop when you are feeling pain! 
This was before she realized that sex for me was not about the orgasm, it was about the bonding and emotional intimacy. OK!OK! I admit it. I am the guy that loves chick flicks and tears up at all the mushy romantic movies too.
Think it was a condition some women have with varicose veins in vagina or cervix that gets engorged and causes pain during intercourse. Hysterectomy cured the pain issue. We are both so grateful for that.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Here’s the next gut punch - if you were to split from your wife, you can pretty much guarantee that if she ever wanted to date again, she would need to get over these issues she has because no man at our age is going to put up with that crap. So she has a choice - either get over her issues for you, get over her issues for someone else or be alone.
> 
> Bet you she doesn’t choose being alone.



^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

PieceOfSky said:


> Then don’t spend your life trying to diagnose the problem, trying to understand and explain the other’s disengagement and believing if you’re patient enough and endure enough they’ll see the light.
> 
> I suddenly recall from childhood an animated fairy tale about an ice crystal getting stuck in someone’s eye (intentionally by the mean ice queen or something), turning them into an uncaring, unloving selfish and depressed version of their former self. The life mission of the other character, the formerly lighthearted now chronically stressed companion was to find a way to dislodge or melt that ice crystal, and restore their companion back to whole.
> Worked out in the fairytale. Doesn’t happen in real life, at least if one makes it his or her life work.
> ...


No problem, I was asking rhetorically too!

Still, this is a great answer, and it was MY answer for myself, once I realized that my EX was only committed to selfishly pleasing himself and meeting his own needs, while insisting that my thoughts and feelings and needs would be INVISIBLE...because they meant nothing to him at all and got in the way of him making himself happy.

I think it takes courage to be willing to admit that you cannot be patient or endure with a partner who has very little interest in connecting with you sexually if that's one of your needs. For some reason, we have so much (perpetuated) shame for being sexual individuals with sexual needs and WANTS...and that's not right or fair, or healthy.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

My wife and I had a small talk about this today. Her view is she’s more of a traditionalist when it comes to sex. She says nothing happened to traumatize her when she was younger and I was her first (which is true) and her first for things like oral. She says she tried it and decided she didn’t like it, when we were dating. Her timing is interesting as she stopped right after we got married and that she should be able to decide if she wants to do something or not. She thinks a few of my kinks are weird but not her thing. They are pretty common and nothing bad, just not her thing.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> My wife and I had a small talk about this today. Her view is she’s more of a traditionalist when it comes to sex. She says nothing happened to traumatize her when she was younger and I was her first (which is true) and her first for things like oral. She says she tried it and decided she didn’t like it, when we were dating. Her timing is interesting as she stopped right after we got married and that she should be able to decide if she wants to do something or not. She thinks a few of my kinks are weird but not her thing. They are pretty common and nothing bad, just not her thing.


This sounds like a bait and switch. I am always really skeptical of the motives of people who change immediately after marriage or immediately after children (in ways that aren't because they pushed out a person or have to care for a small human, but those things even out in time). I'm sorry it's like this, it really doesn't sound like she cares if you're satisfied. Didn't she tell you to go find someone else?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GoodDad5 said:


> Ugh, I caved when my wife asked me if I wanted to have sex. I should have said no but I caved as I personally like sex. It was bad as usual though. Same stupid “foreplay” and same starfish position even though I told her what I wanted her to do which she refused. All I asked her was for her to kiss me like I kiss her. She knows how frustrated I am with this and I really had to concentrate to finish.
> 
> I was so close to refusing and I should have but I caved.


LoL! Spankins would be a comin!😈


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GoodDad5 said:


> Her issue is oral is disgusting, both giving and receiving. Other positions other than missionary/starfish hurt her back, knees, etc. She doesn’t like touching me down there and wants no part of her head being close to it.


Yeah. That's bs.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This sounds like a bait and switch. I am always really skeptical of the motives of people who change immediately after marriage or immediately after children (in ways that aren't because they pushed out a person or have to care for a small human, but those things even out in time). I'm sorry it's like this, it really doesn't sound like she cares if you're satisfied. Didn't she tell you to go find someone else?


I think she said that out of anger during an argument. She doesn’t recall those things ending right after our marriage but I can still remember it like it was yesterday. 

It’s my bed so to speak and I have to lay in it until I decide if I want to make that change. I just know it would be so messy, and it would devastate her. Am I being selfish for putting a priority on my sexual needs?

If it wasn’t so wrong to do so I would consider finding a lady in a similar predicament as me just for the sexual fulfillment, but I know what my views on cheating are and I cannot do that. 

Is wanting things like oral both ways, her wearing sexy things like lingerie and heels (heels are so sexy on a woman!) or role playing that bad of a desire?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GoodDad5 said:


> I think she said that out of anger during an argument. She doesn’t recall those things ending right after our marriage but I can still remember it like it was yesterday.
> 
> It’s my bed so to speak and I have to lay in it until I decide if I want to make that change. I just know it would be so messy, and it would devastate her. Am I being selfish for putting a priority on my sexual needs?
> 
> ...


Not bad at all my friend and perfectly reasonable as long as you are willing to give as good or better than you get.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> I just know it would be so messy, and it would devastate her.


Aren't you devastated by the way things are? 


GoodDad5 said:


> Am I being selfish for putting a priority on my sexual needs?


No, you are not. She's making her "needs" the ONLY priority and that isn't fair or right of her to do.


GoodDad5 said:


> Is wanting things like oral both ways, her wearing sexy things like lingerie and heels (heels are so sexy on a woman!) or role playing that bad of a desire?


No, none of that is bad. You like what you like. I'm so sad she's doing this to you, it's horrible. She is being really selfish and lazy, sorry to say that about your wife, but she is. It's not that she's uncomfortable that I have an issue with, it's how utterly dismissive she is of your side of things. She isn't even trying and that is wrong. 

I don't think you should cheat. I think you should leave.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Another thing she told me, specifically about oral sex, is that she finds me saying a majority of women like either giving or receiving hard to believe. I don’t know what the statistics are, but it just seems to me that the majority of women like oral. I know I can’t speak for women obviously. I feel like I found the only one who does not. 

She says it’s not just me; she would not want to give oral to any man, no matter how hot she thought they were. It’s not a hygiene issue either; she just doesn’t want it near her head at all.

I’ve been following the advice from the Dead Bedroom Fix book and have been going to the gym and doing things to better myself and look better overall. I’m trying to put more of a priority on me. Hoping secondarily that maybe it would do something for her. So far nothing on that front.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

If I am honest, when it comes to my private sex life, what "the majority" of women do is not an argument I'm going to hear with kind ears. It sounds a lot like peer pressure, and that rubs me the wrong way. BUT, I have my own stuff going on, so your wife probably heard it differently than I did. That said, it really doesn't matter what the majority of women are doing, you're talking about the two of you.

I honestly don't know how to react to this:


GoodDad5 said:


> It’s not a hygiene issue either; she just doesn’t want it near her head at all.


I can't even come up with a joke about that. It makes... zero sense to me. But again, she is being dismissive of you and expecting you to be the only one to compromise. I'm not suggesting she do something she doesn't like, but she should at least be open to change and accommodation.


GoodDad5 said:


> Her view is she’s more of a traditionalist when it comes to sex.


This is crap. I'm sorry to be blunt. But seriously. What a load. She's being rude and selfish.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If I am honest, when it comes to my private sex life, what "the majority" of women do is not an argument I'm going to hear with kind ears. It sounds a lot like peer pressure, and that rubs me the wrong way. BUT, I have my own stuff going on, so your wife probably heard it differently than I did. That said, it really doesn't matter what the majority of women are doing, you're talking about the two of you.
> 
> I honestly don't know how to react to this:
> 
> ...


Yeah, I shouldn’t say the thing about majority because it does sound like peer pressure and that’s the last thing I’d want to be doing to anyone. 

I know the head thing does sound like a joke but like I try to explain to her it’s a self conscious thing with me. If she doesn’t want to go near it what does that say about me in general since for some guys having that get attention is a huge ego booster. Sounds silly I know. 

I really do appreciate your perspective on this from a lady’s point of view. I’m really sorry you’re going through your issues as well.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> I know the head thing does sound like a joke but like I try to explain to her it’s a self conscious thing with me. If she doesn’t want to go near it what does that say about me in general since for some guys having that get attention is a huge ego booster. Sounds silly I know.


I get it, I understand what you mean about how it makes you feel. It doesn't sound silly at all. 

If I get details wrong, please correct me, but I think it's been years that it's been this way. It's unlikely to change. Why do you stay? Just because you think she'd be devastated? Look at the way she's treating you. Maybe she should be devastated, she's had no problem devastating you.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I get it, I understand what you mean about how it makes you feel. It doesn't sound silly at all.
> 
> If I get details wrong, please correct me, but I think it's been years that it's been this way. It's unlikely to change. Why do you stay? Just because you think she'd be devastated? Look at the way she's treating you. Maybe she should be devastated, she's had no problem devastating you.


Two kids with the youngest still 8 years away from being out of school. A divorce would also decimate me as I make quite a bit more and we live in a community property state. No alimony here but child support would take a good portion of my paycheck, even though I would be happy to pay it so long as it’s going for it’s purpose. My kids would be devastated as well if we split. 

You have it right, it’s been years in the making. It’s been this way for a little over 20 years. I should have done something to change it a long time ago and that’s on me. I was hoping it would change for the better. Every other aspect of our marriage is good. We are good roommates and co parents is how I see it. Now that I’m older, I know life is short and I just want a normal sex life. It doesn’t help that my love language is touch and I’m touch starved.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> It’s been this way for a little over 20 years. I should have done something to change it a long time ago and that’s on me. I was hoping it would change for the better. Every other aspect of our marriage is good. We are good roommates and co parents is how I see it. Now that I’m older, I know life is short and I just want a normal sex life. It doesn’t help that my love language is touch and I’m touch starved.


I have a friend who is now at 30 years in. His has pretty much been your story from about 5 years in. He has brought up over the years, usually when we are on a fishing trip " I should have divorced her x years ago". He has spent 30 years in misery, a year at a time. And things between them have only gotten worse. Now he is an old man ( and she is an old woman ), he gets starfish about once a month. As he says "this life is almost over, no point in trying to jump ship now".

BTW, they have no kids. She was the hottest woman he had ever encountered through dating and first year married. Nothing was off of the table. She was first class actress, he was her third marriage. All he has ever been concerned about was what a divorce would cost him. And she tells him at least once a month that she will take him for all he has.

Indeed, life is short.

If you met them you would think their marriage was a happy one. Honey wouldn't melt in her mouth, more than once she has told my wife how in love she is. She is an accomplished actress.


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