# Ladies: Do you consider this cheating?



## MikeinTexas

Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers? And I realized my original question was not accurate, so please see **NEW**.

*NEW*Is it cheating when.... your SO (of 2+ years) keeps their online dating profile active long after the two of you reconcile? *** 

_OLD: Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?_

I'll clarify & explain.... We had a brief break up last July and she had several dating profiles go up within a week. But apparently, she never deleted them when we got back together a month later in early September. But it wasn't like she forgot to delete them. Because I eventually learned in December after reconciling that she was still checking in, viewing men's profiles who had winked or messaged her. She kept all this hidden from me until I confronted her with my evidence.

Still cheating??


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## Affaircare

Good. God. Yes!!!!

My definition of faithfulness is giving all of your romantic affection, loyalty, and companionship to your beloved. That's 100% and leaves no room for giving ANY affection to anyone else, any loyalty to anyone else, or any companionship to anyone else.


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## minimalME

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers?
> 
> Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites *behind their back* while in a Relationship (2+years)?


Yup.


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## Yeswecan

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers?
> 
> Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?


I'm a guy. And yes. It is actively taking part in cheating and looking(online dating site) same.


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## Primrose

Yes.


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## Daisy12

Yes


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## EleGirl

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers?
> 
> Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?


What is your opinion on this topic? What are the others saying?


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## EleGirl

If you are in a relationship where there is reason for the other person to assume that its and exclusive relationship, yet that's cheating.... or at least acting on the intent to cheat.

I would dump a guy who did that in a heart beat.


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## TAMAT

MikeInTexas,

Yes it's cheating, tell whomever it is to continue to snoop, allow the connections to be made, then show up with the OMs wife or GF during their date. Grab a bucket of popcorn to eat while it goes down.

Tamat


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## Andy1001

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers?
> 
> Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?


Are your co-workers friends of your ex girlfriend and are they trying to talk you into taking her back?
You posted before asking for advice about your then girlfriend being active on dating sites and then you posted about how hard it is since you broke up with her.Stay away from her and also tell these toxic people to stick their opinions where the sun doesn’t shine.
It will get easier in time and you will learn to value yourself and not to be anyone’s plan B.
She can’t be happy with one guy and you don’t want to share,it’s that simple.
Good luck and I hope you find someone who values and respects you.
Edit:I just realized you were asking ladies for advice,sorry.


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## MrsHolland

Yes


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## MikeinTexas

My opinion is that it's cheating. My 2 co-workers were women. They know her, but are not close friends with her. That's why I wanted to get a broader opinion on it. Oh, and it's cool if the fellas joined in. I just didn't want to make sure I was going crazy or was wrong. 

My exgf argued there was nothing wrong with it (even though we were in a committed relationship for years) because we weren't married or committed to marriage yet( even though she wanted a marriage with me and I did too). Her excuse was using it for attention because I didn't give her enough and as backup in case we ever break up again.


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## TAMAT

If the woman tells her SO about the profile then it falls into a category with swinging.

Ask if the woman has made it known to her SO and if not why not if it's such a minor indiscretion. 

Ask them how they would feel if their SO did the same thing, would they ever trust them again.

Tamat


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## chillymorn69

No its not cheating.

But the intent is there!

You made the right call being as shes your xgf


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## MJJEAN

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers?
> 
> Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?


The act of creating profiles itself isn't cheating in my book. However, it is cheating adjacent, indicates an intent to cheat or, at very least, says you're scoping out your other options and aren't actually committed to the relationship. If my SO made profiles on dating sites and I discovered it, I'd walk on grounds of distrust due to suspicious behavior.


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## arbitrator

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers?
> 
> *Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?*


*Not a woman, but hell yes ~ it's cheating!

What else would it be?*


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## Prodigal

MikeinTexas said:


> Her excuse was using it for attention because I didn't give her enough and as backup in case we ever break up again.


Even if I didn't consider it cheating, it certainly shows she is immature. Why? Because instead of coming to you to have a serious discussion about her need for more attention, she decided to go behind your back and seek "attention" from other men. Since you broke up with her, I assume she is now busy with that "backup" plan.

I don't know how old she is, but she has the maturity of a teenager.


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## VibrantWings

It's dishonest. Take it as a head's up.


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## the other road

YES!


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## SarcasticRed

I would consider it intention to cheat at the least. For "is it cheating" I think that anything with sexual or romantic implications that you would not want your partner to know about is cheating.


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## GusPolinski

MikeinTexas said:


> My opinion is that it's cheating. My 2 co-workers were women. They know her, but are not close friends with her. That's why I wanted to get a broader opinion on it. Oh, and it's cool if the fellas joined in. I just didn't want to make sure I was going crazy or was wrong.
> 
> My exgf argued there was nothing wrong with it (even though we were in a committed relationship for years) because we weren't married or committed to marriage yet( even though she wanted a marriage with me and I did too). Her excuse was using it for attention because I didn't give her enough and as backup in case we ever break up again.


By this logic, it’s OK to do a crap job as an intern or junior associate because you don’t yet have the job that you want.

Fair enough, but don’t expect to ever be more than that, and that’s assuming you’re even able to hang onto it.

Seriously... who in his or her right mind would actually hire or promote such a person?


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## Houstondad

Cheating....and downright DISRESPECTFUL. What if your friends and family saw her online? How embarrassing would that be?

It may not have been physical, but it's definitely EA. And any girl will tell you that an EA is just as bad as an PA.

Your girlfriend knew it was wrong which is why she was hiding it behind your back.


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## MikeinTexas

Well, shoot. I just noticed that my thread's original question is not completely accurate. 

It should read:
Is it cheating when your SO still keeps their online dating profile active?

Let me explain.... We had a brief break up in July and she had several dating profiles go up within a week. But apparently, she never deleted them when we got back together a month later in early September. 

I didn't discover this and I only learned by accident she was still active and online in December. So 3 months had passed since we reconciled. And yes, she was aware she was active during those 3 months. And thanks to my detective work, I was able to get her to finally admit she was looking at the other men's winks and messages to her during that time she kept things hidden from me.

Still cheating??

And here's a kicker I never shared, during my investigation I discovered she was on online dating on my Birthday! (Insert Angry Emoji)Gut Punch!


It was not my intention to frame my original question in a way that would suggest she started online dating while we were actively dating. I could see how it can change people's minds. But I will remind everyone that she was aware it was still active when we were back together.

So I apologize to all who have answered already. Next time, I'll drink my coffee BEFORE I post anything!


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## Cromer

I ain't a lady but it's damn sure cheating to me. But I was cheated on so take that for what it's worth.


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## daisydolittle

Yes it is


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## SunnyT

Even if you change your question...or add all your little rainbows..... she sucks. She is an awful girlfriend. She can't care about you, or love you. She can say anything.... but either she is using you, or she doesn't know HOW to love and respect a man/partner/SO.


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## Mr.Married

It's not cheating.......not just yet. It's extremely disrespectful and contains a HUGE amount of intent. It's definitely not acceptable.


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## MikeinTexas

It's crazy that the "cheating" didn't seem so obvious because of me feeling down/regrets of the breakup. But hearing a near-unanimous reply from you guys is definitely helping. Anytime I start to think about her and the good things, I use this to help keep things in perspective and that I did the right thing.

There were little red flags I should have picked up on during those months she was doing it behind my back:

1. Went to Vegas with her girlfriends. They usually post tons of pics on Facebook and Instagram. They posted none. I know she and the girls dressed sexy and went to clubs. I asked her if anything happened (dancing with other men, etc.) and she said no. That only men bought them drinks and that was it. Hmmm?

Later, I find out her friends are having affairs on their husbands during the last few months (and still are). Not in Vegas that I know of, but locally. But I waved it all off as "Vegas". Now, I'm not so sure.

2. Accusing me of hiding texting on my phone. It got real bad because I had nothing to hide and defended myself. She did not like that I defended myself. 

3. Yet, she's the one with "content hidden" on her phone.

4. One night, she said because we weren't having sex because I was at my home, she went ahead and pleased herself that night. Did she do anything online/cybersex/dirty talk with another? Because she always said she rarely pleases herself.


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## oldshirt

MikeinTexas said:


> My opinion is that it's cheating. My 2 co-workers were women. They know her, but are not close friends with her. That's why I wanted to get a broader opinion on it. Oh, and it's cool if the fellas joined in. I just didn't want to make sure I was going crazy or was wrong.
> 
> My exgf argued there was nothing wrong with it (even though we were in a committed relationship for years) because we weren't married or committed to marriage yet( even though she wanted a marriage with me and I did too). Her excuse was using it for attention because I didn't give her enough and as backup in case we ever break up again.


Technically she has one valid point.

You are dating. 

Dating is spending time with someone and doing a variety of things with someone to get to know them and evaluate their potential as a candidate for marriage/home/family etc (this is assuming your end-goal is marriage and family)

Dating by it's nature is noncommitted and either party can walk away at any time without repurcussion.

In other words it is an interview and probationary period where both parties evaluate if they are a match or not. Neither party is committed and either can terminate the interview and probationary period without prejudice or repurcussion. 

Engagement and marriage are recognized as legal commitment and fall under law regarding the division of shared property and possible reimbursement of expenses should one party back out after entering into the agreement. 

So she has a valid point that you aren't engaged or married and she has the right to keep her options open and remain on the market.

HOWEVER! 

The question you need to be asking yourself is whether she is showing herself to be a viable candidate for furthering the relationship or not.

As she has shown that she will continue to seek "attention" and validation from other men and then blame you for not providing her enough attention. 

Is that where you want to be when Jesus comes back?

If she has agreed to date you exclusively, but yet keeps a man-harem of orbiters ready to replace you on a moments notice should you not completely fulfil her every moment; is that what you want in a partner??


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## oldshirt

Additionally, it is also within her right to not date indefinately.

If get stated goal is marriage, then she is perfectly in her right to "next" people who simply want to have a steady GF and just want to hang out, have sex and enjoy the benefits of their company without making any nuts and bolts preparations towards marriage and family. 

Someone with a goal of marriage and family has a perfect right to set time limits and remain on the market until someone steps up to the plate with a validated offer. 

You are also on probation here.

If you have dated for years with no substatial, nuts and bolts progress towards marriage, then she is wise to keep her options open with back up plans in place and an exit strategy in mind.


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## MikeinTexas

oldshirt said:


> If she has agreed to date you exclusively, but yet keeps a man-harem of orbiters ready to replace you on a moments notice should you not completely fulfil her every moment; is that what you want in a partner??


Yes, we definitely were on a level of being exclusive. I almost don't even want to call it dating as were were together for over 2 years ( and were exclusive from practically the get go).

Oh, and one final red flag that my dumbass failed to see?

We started seeing each other a month into her divorce process (it's 6 months here in Texas). Her ex hadn't been living with her anymore/separated, but we still fooled around and she performed oral sex multiple times while still technically being married. She felt this was acceptable morally in her eyes because we didn't go all the way. Looking back, she has excuses for many things and that she quickly went from a 15 year marriage into another relationship. And into another 2 days after our relationship ended.


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## DustyDog

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers? And I realized my original question was not accurate, so please see **NEW**.
> 
> *NEW*Is it cheating when.... your SO (of 2+ years) keeps their online dating profile active after a brief breakup 3 months ago? ***
> 
> _OLD: Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?_
> 
> I'll clarify & explain.... We had a brief break up last July and she had several dating profiles go up within a week. But apparently, she never deleted them when we got back together a month later in early September. But it wasn't like she forgot to delete them. Because I eventually learned in December after reconciling that she was still checking in, viewing men's profiles who had winked or messaged her. She kept all this hidden from me until I confronted her with my evidence.
> 
> Still cheating??



Based on the behavior I have observed from women I've dated, gotten serious about, quit dating, continued dating, have as acquaintances....

Unless the two of you have declared that "this is really it" or at least that you're going to act as if it were - really work hard at making a permanent relationship out of this dating thing - then there is no "cheating" that can be done. Unless you're at that stage, you're both "just dating". 

I reiterate, this may not be the way I want it to be, but it is consistent with behaviors that have been described to me. My first inkling that this is the behavioral norm came when a woman friend of mine was chatting with me over morning coffee. "Geeze, it's like this guy thinks we're married! We've been going out for a few months and last night, I got a ping on my phone from *******, so I responded to it. He acted all like controlling or something and acted upset because I was responding to another guy on *******, not that I was going to go meet the guy or anything....." I succeeded in not showing surprise on my face.

DD


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## MikeinTexas

oldshirt said:


> Additionally, it is also within her right to not date indefinately.
> 
> If get stated goal is marriage, then she is perfectly in her right to "next" people who simply want to have a steady GF and just want to hang out, have sex and enjoy the benefits of their company without making any nuts and bolts preparations towards marriage and family.
> 
> Someone with a goal of marriage and family has a perfect right to set time limits and remain on the market until someone steps up to the plate with a validated offer.
> 
> You are also on probation here.
> 
> If you have dated for years with no substatial, nuts and bolts progress towards marriage, then she is wise to keep her options open with back up plans in place and an exit strategy in mind.


Hey, I get it if someone doesn't want to wait. And thats where most of us break things off and move on.

But to have options and an ACTIVE exit strategy DURING the relationship?
Nah, bro. Do you assume all of us do this? You would be ok if your SO did this while you were in a relationship? That lacks integrity and honesty. Its also called BS. I questions your f'd' values.


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## Lostinthought61

MikeinTexas said:


> It's crazy that the "cheating" didn't seem so obvious because of me feeling down/regrets of the breakup. But hearing a near-unanimous reply from you guys is definitely helping. Anytime I start to think about her and the good things, I use this to help keep things in perspective and that I did the right thing.
> 
> There were little red flags I should have picked up on during those months she was doing it behind my back:
> 
> 1. Went to Vegas with her girlfriends. They usually post tons of pics on Facebook and Instagram. They posted none. I know she and the girls dressed sexy and went to clubs. I asked her if anything happened (dancing with other men, etc.) and she said no. That only men bought them drinks and that was it. Hmmm?
> 
> Later, I find out her friends are having affairs on their husbands during the last few months (and still are). Not in Vegas that I know of, but locally. But I waved it all off as "Vegas". Now, I'm not so sure.
> 
> 2. Accusing me of hiding texting on my phone. It got real bad because I had nothing to hide and defended myself. She did not like that I defended myself.
> 
> 3. Yet, she's the one with "content hidden" on her phone.
> 
> 4. One night, she said because we weren't having sex because I was at my home, she went ahead and pleased herself that night. Did she do anything online/cybersex/dirty talk with another? Because she always said she rarely pleases herself.


Mike don't you owe it too their husband to rat them out?


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## MikeinTexas

For the love of God, we were together over TWO years. We were exclusive. We were discussing moving in and talked about marriage. Maybe I didn't describe things clear enough. This was not a 2 month dating scenario.


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## MikeinTexas

Their husbands know because I found out from them. My ex gf hid that from me.


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## Lostinthought61

MikeinTexas said:


> For the love of God, we were together over TWO years. We were exclusive. We were discussing moving in and talked about marriage. Maybe I didn't describe things clear enough. This was not a 2 month dating scenario.


another thought Mike, think about this...if her girl friends have no problem cheating on their husband what does that say about your ex? is that the kind of girls friends you want your wife to hang around with?


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## MikeinTexas

Yeah Lost, i thought about that too. Did not like that dynamic at all.


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## Lostinthought61

MikeinTexas said:


> Yeah Lost, i thought about that too. Did not like that dynamic at all.


then consider yourself lucky, you should feel bad for her next victim (i mean guy)


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## oldshirt

MikeinTexas said:


> Hey, I get it if someone doesn't want to wait. And thats where most of us break things off and move on.
> 
> But to have options and an ACTIVE exit strategy DURING the relationship?
> Nah, bro. Do you assume all of us do this? You would be ok if your SO did this while you were in a relationship? That lacks integrity and honesty. Its also called BS. I questions your f'd' values.


Whoe lower your weapons here a minute.

This isn't my values or even my circus or monkey.

I'm just saying people have the right to put limits on how long they are willing to date without seeing tangible signs of progress towards marriage if marriage is the goal. 

I'm not saying you have to like it or embrace it. 

Like I said in my first post, dating is an interview and probationary period. If you don't find that acceptable or you don't find that ascribes to your personal value system, then you also have the right to move along. 

This chick has shown a long-standing pattern of having her back-up plans in place and monkey-swinging from one dude immediately to the next. There is no reason to think she will not continue this pattern. If you find that unacceptable and a deal breaker, that is your right. 

All I am saying is she has the right to not date indefinately and to have whatever strategies in place to avoid that.


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## oldshirt

MikeinTexas said:


> Yes, we definitely were on a level of being exclusive. I almost don't even want to call it dating as were were together for over 2 years ( and were exclusive from practically the get go).
> 
> Oh, and one final red flag that my dumbass failed to see?
> 
> We started seeing each other a month into her divorce process (it's 6 months here in Texas). Her ex hadn't been living with her anymore/separated, but we still fooled around and she performed oral sex multiple times while still technically being married. She felt this was acceptable morally in her eyes because we didn't go all the way. Looking back, she has excuses for many things and that she quickly went from a 15 year marriage into another relationship. And into another 2 days after our relationship ended.


My guess is she is one if those people that always has to be in a relationship and will always have orbiters and back up plans and substitutes on the bench ready to jump in at any moment so she can monkey-swing to the next the moment she isn't feeling completely fulfilled. 

That may or may not technically be cheating or adultery depending on how involved she is with the back up person(s) while the current relationship is still in place.

But just know that she will always have a parachute on, her hand on the ejection handle and will always have a soft landing place zone at any given time. 

The question here isn't so much as whether she is currently cheating or is she going to cheat; but rather are you OK with someone who is always going to maintain a roster of substitutes, replacements and back up plans?


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## Luvher4life

Mike, I'd drop her in a second. If her "friends" that she hangs out with are fooling around on their husbands, what does that say about her. To me, at least, it says she thinks the same way as they do. She's already got excuses, back-up plans, an exit strategy, keeping options open, etc., and that screams to me that she can't be trusted. She's not ready for any long term relationship, in my opinion, because trust is the foundation on which relationships are built. Two years is nothing compared to what it would be if you married her. Too many red flags to continue.

It IS cheating, in my opinion, to be active on dating sites when you are already in a committed relationship. To think otherwise is naïve. Just thank God that you found all this out before marrying her.

Get out, and good luck. Let her find another victim.


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## Cynthia

MikeinTexas said:


> Her excuse was using it for attention because I didn't give her enough and as backup in case we ever break up again.


This could very well be true, but that doesn't make it into something other than cheating. She cheated, then she justified it.


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## Luvher4life

CynthiaDe said:


> This could very well be true, but that doesn't make it into something other than cheating. She cheated, then she justified it.


Exactly, and just like her friends do.


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## SpinyNorman

Affaircare said:


> Good. God. Yes!!!!
> 
> My definition of faithfulness is giving all of your romantic affection, loyalty, and companionship to your beloved. That's 100% and leaves no room for giving ANY affection to anyone else, any loyalty to anyone else, or any companionship to anyone else.


I don't understand why you can't give any loyalty to anyone else and still be faithful. One of the things I love about my wife is that she had lots of friends and relatives she was loyal to, and she didn't dump them when she snagged me.

I agree about OP's question, but I'm not a lady.


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## oldshirt

The friends she keeps is a whole other issue.

There's an old saying that a person is the average of the 5 people they are around the most.

If she is hanging with a bunch of people that think it is ok to go clubbing in Vegas and hook up with dudes while their husbands are home taking care of the kids, then that is where she is at as well.


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## Affaircare

SpinyNorman said:


> I don't understand why you can't give any loyalty to anyone else and still be faithful. One of the things I love about my wife is that she had lots of friends and relatives she was loyal to, and she didn't dump them when she snagged me.
> 
> I agree about OP's question, but I'm not a lady.


[small threadjack]

Ah, @SpinyNorman, I mean it like romantic loyalty. Of course you can be loyal to your parents or siblings as family, to your children as a parent, to your friends as purely platonic. But if you have someone at work you're texting 200 times a day and spending 300 minutes per week with on the phone--you are giving away romantic loyalty! And then when your partner, to whom you actually owe the loyalty, asks you to stop spending so much time with the other person, and you DEFEND the other person! *Yowza*, you've taken what is your partners and given it to another!

The line that's hard to define is "friends" and I make that pretty easy. I don't do opposite sex friends. I have acquaintances or co-workers with whom I have to work as part of my job, but I don't ask them about their life, their wives, their feelings, nada. Because I owe my loyalty only to one...and it's not them. 

[/small threadjack]


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## lucy999

MikeinTexas said:


> For the love of God, we were together over TWO years. We were exclusive. We were discussing moving in and talked about marriage. Maybe I didn't describe things clear enough. This was not a 2 month dating scenario.


She's a ****ty gf. DTMFA. don't ever be Plan B when you can be someone else's plan A.


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## MikeinTexas

oldshirt said:


> Whoe lower your weapons here a minute.
> 
> This isn't my values or even my circus or monkey.
> 
> I'm just saying people have the right to put limits on how long they are willing to date without seeing tangible signs of progress towards marriage if marriage is the goal.
> 
> I'm not saying you have to like it or embrace it.
> 
> Like I said in my first post, dating is an interview and probationary period. If you don't find that acceptable or you don't find that ascribes to your personal value system, then you also have the right to move along.
> 
> This chick has shown a long-standing pattern of having her back-up plans in place and monkey-swinging from one dude immediately to the next. There is no reason to think she will not continue this pattern. If you find that unacceptable and a deal breaker, that is your right.
> 
> All I am saying is she has the right to not date indefinately and to have whatever strategies in place to avoid that.


I agree friend, especially your last statement. Still, 2 years is more than a probationary period in our eyes. By the 3rd month, she and I were in it for the long term. But the way she handled her exit strategy was inappropriate. That's all I'm trying to say. My apologies for flying off the handle on ya.


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## oldshirt

MikeinTexas said:


> I agree friend, especially your last statement. Still, 2 years is more than a probationary period in our eyes. By the 3rd month, she and I were in it for the long term. But the way she handled her exit strategy was inappropriate. That's all I'm trying to say. My apologies for flying off the handle on ya.


The devil is in the details on this one. 

You are going to have to look at all of this as a whole and determine if she is really the right match for you. 

I'm not sure that not canceling dating apps and profiles is in and of itself cheating or not. If she is swearing commitment and exclusivity to you, but yet is chatting up and sending booby pics and meeting up with other guys while saying she isn't - that is clearly cheating. 

If she just hasn't closed her accounts but isn't responding to anything - I dunno. 

At minimum she is not fully invested in your relationship. That is clear. 

Now when you throw in all the other stuff like the Vegas trip with a bunch of Desperate Housewives from Skanktown and when you throw in her propensity for monkey swinging from one relationship into the next, then yeah, you really need to evaluate whether she is truly spouse material or not. 

What you have presented thus far does not have a smoking gun that she has actually had sex with another dude while she has been with you......... But there is certainly probable cause to be concerned here. 

Keeping the dating profiles and keeping her options open???? I dunno. That doesn't mean that she has gotten down with some dude yet. But it certainly means that she is not fully invested in your relationship and kind of has one foot out the door ready to jump on the back of someone else's Harley the minute she thinks your relationship has tanked. 

And the monkey swinging?? Again, this is going to come down to YOUR value system and what you feel is acceptable and appropriate behavior or not. Technically if someone breaks up over breakfast and has officially terminated the relationship, they have every right to go out on a dinner date with someone else that evening. 

The question you have to ask yourself though is whether that is the kind of person you want to be with or not.


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## notmyrealname4

/


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## Mr.Married

I can't believe that the OP is still considering her as a possible mate. I'll never understand why people accept to degrade themselves in this manner.


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## MikeinTexas

Last night, I was invited and went out with a good friend of mine. He is the husband of my ex's BFF. Yes, his wife has been chatting with other men online/texting, against her husband's wishes/demands. It's complicated and oh so wrong.

He tells me his wife is trying to justify my ex's behavior with having the active dating profile. She's telling him my ex did nothing wrong and that he should side with them. She said because even though she had the online dating profiles, she was just going to wait till they expired ( that's waiting 4 months after we reconciled) AND she never chatted with anyone on there. 

He wouldn't agree with her, thank God. Besides, she's quite biased don't you think? ( And I'm not even referring to her being a BF)

Keeping a profile active and open is telling the male world you are single and AVAILABLE/ INTERESTED for dating and/or hookups. Not only at a minimum is it disrespectful to me, it's wrong to waste other people's time viewing your profile on there because they are assuming you are not in a committed relationship. It's like walking into a bar with a sign saying I am available and INVITE all your manly attentions, flirting, proposals, etc., BUT I'm not going to respond to you since I have a boyfriend. Hell, she's been wasting my time too, eh?

If the shoe was on the other foot, and I was the one with the online dating profiles for the attention and as a backup plan behind her back, I wonder how my ex girlfriend would take it? I wonder how my friend's wife would take it were reversed?


----------



## Luvher4life

MikeinTexas said:


> Last night, I was invited and went out with a good friend of mine. He is the husband of my ex's BFF. Yes, his wife has been chatting with other men online/texting, against her husband's wishes/demands. It's complicated and oh so wrong.
> 
> He tells me his wife is trying to justify my ex's behavior with having the active dating profile. She's telling him my ex did nothing wrong and that he should side with them. She said because even though she had the online dating profiles, she was just going to wait till they expired ( that's waiting 4 months after we reconciled) AND she never chatted with anyone on there.
> 
> He wouldn't agree with her, thank God. Besides, she's quite biased don't you think? ( And I'm not even referring to her being a BF)
> 
> Keeping a profile active and open is telling the male world you are single and AVAILABLE/ INTERESTED for dating and/or hookups. Not only at a minimum is it disrespectful to me, it's wrong to waste other people's time viewing your profile on there because they are assuming you are not in a committed relationship. It's like walking into a bar with a sign saying I am available and INVITE all your manly attentions, flirting, proposals, etc., BUT I'm not going to respond to you since I have a boyfriend. Hell, she's been wasting my time too, eh?
> 
> If the shoe was on the other foot, and I was the one with the online dating profiles for the attention and as a backup plan behind her back, I wonder how my ex girlfriend would take it? I wonder how my friend's wife would take it were reversed?


I agree with your view on it, and I hope you have dropped her and moved on. Way too many red flags with her to continue investing emotions into a relationship. Chances are really high that she will cheat if she hasn't already. Why wouldn't she do it if her "friends" are?

Either way, she's not a good match for you, in my opinion.


----------



## oldshirt

Simple fact; she is nowhere as committed or invested in this relationship as you are.

She is nowhere near or committed in this relationship and does not see it anywhere near as serious as you think it is.

You two are nowhere near on the same page.


----------



## MattMatt

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers? And I realized my original question was not accurate, so please see **NEW**.
> 
> *NEW*Is it cheating when.... your SO (of 2+ years) keeps their online dating profile active after a brief breakup 3 months ago? ***
> 
> _OLD: Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?_
> 
> I'll clarify & explain.... We had a brief break up last July and she had several dating profiles go up within a week. But apparently, she never deleted them when we got back together a month later in early September. But it wasn't like she forgot to delete them. Because I eventually learned in December after reconciling that she was still checking in, viewing men's profiles who had winked or messaged her. She kept all this hidden from me until I confronted her with my evidence.
> 
> Still cheating??


Worse, in a way.


----------



## jlg07

@MikeinTexas,
"Last night, I was invited and went out with a good friend of mine. He is the husband of my ex's BFF. Yes, his wife has been chatting with other men online/texting, against her husband's wishes/demands. It's complicated and oh so wrong."

WHAT? Why in God's name does he put up with that from his wife? Is she one of the Vegas chicks that was cheating on her husband? I sure hope he wises up and gets divorced asap.

EDT: BTW, you may want to point him over here to TAM to get some help himself...


----------



## Adelais

Yes. Even if she is not actively dating anyone, she has her antennae extended.


----------



## MikeinTexas

I forgot one other statement she told me that hurt at the time I confronted her. 

She said that "she could f-u-c-k any of the men on the dating sites, f-u-c-k anyone she wanted, but she never replied to their messages." Why say something like that?

It kinda angers me she's going around saying to our friends that what she did was ok and making me seem like an insecure guy who always wanted out and used a weak excuse (active profile) to finally break up with her.

But I come here to vent instead of to our friends. I would hope that in time, everyone will see her for who she really is.


----------



## jlg07

Mike, I would tell your friends what happened -- don't wait for them to "see her for who she is". She is poisoning the well with her comments, and she doesn't deserve to be believed over you. SHE is the one who screwed up -- you should set it to rights and preserve your reputation.


----------



## MikeinTexas

jlg07 said:


> Mike, I would tell your friends what happened -- don't wait for them to "see her for who she is". She is poisoning the well with her comments, and she doesn't deserve to be believed over you. SHE is the one who screwed up -- you should set it to rights and preserve your reputation.


You might be right. 

The reason why I've been vague about why I broke up is that I read somewhere that it's better not to talk BAD about your EX to friends. 

I've equated her latest BAD BEHAVIOR (hidden active profile) with talking BAD about her which is why I've been holding back with my friends. Only one knows all of it which is the one who told me his wife tried to convince him my EX did nothing wrong in all this.

And telling her close girlfriends the truth, I don't believe I stand a chance trying to convince them. I'm going to cut my losses with them which is too bad because they were good friends.

I know she's minimizing her role and blame shifting when she talks about us/me. Who knows what else? 

But maybe among my guy friends, it's worth telling what really happened or just avoiding that drama?


----------



## jlg07

My take is you are not talking BAD about her if you simply state the facts of what happened. You don't need to resort to name calling, bashing her character, etc..
Just tell WHAT happened to back up why you took the actions you took. It will be clear from the WHAT as to her actual character/makeup. The point is to just clear your name so that she can't re-write what happened (you are just jealous, nothing happened, you misinterpreted something and were an ******* about it, etc..)


----------



## MikeinTexas

I must have misunderstood what it meant by "not saying bad things about my ex". Stick with the facts (albeit her decision was selfish and poor) and don't resort to name calling or put downs(Bad!). At that point, my friends are entitled to their own opinions.

And I'm putting some closure to END this thread, " Do you consider this cheating?". I seeked validation here to something that should have been obvious to me and was to nearly all of you from the start. And a friend from Brooklyn who was blunt, yet was exactly what I needed to hear.

Besides, in the end, all that matters is what I believe, and yeah, I've concluded that she cheated. And it's time to focus on me...and someday find a girl who's more secure with herself.

I have one last thing to do, and that's sending her kids a good bye letter. I owe it to them as I was in their lives for the last couple of years. 
And no, my ex gf does not get one. I have nothing else to say to her.


----------



## jlg07

@MikeinTexas, just checking in with you -- how are things?


----------



## growing_weary

From what i hear sometimes once you put a profile up it's hard to get rid of all the traces even after a deletion. If someone were actively using it I'd consider that leaving the door open.


----------



## MikeinTexas

growing_weary said:


> From what i hear sometimes once you put a profile up it's hard to get rid of all the traces even after a deletion. If someone were actively using it I'd consider that leaving the door open.


Yeah, that's why I did my homework/investigation before confronting her. My homework showed she was online for several weeks on Match since it shows when the last time they were on. She had the ability of cancelling the account or even "hiding her profile". But she did neither. And it's not because a lack of intelligence or tech savy. She is both tech savy and very smart. She knew exactly what she was doing. Behind my back, no less. No honesty. No transparency. 

When I confronted her about it, at first she said it was just her receiving emails. I said I know there's more going on. 
She then said I'm just reading emails I said nope! 
She then admitted she went on to the site to view the profiles/guys that messaged her. Bingo. 

She said she needed the attention (said mine wasn't enough) and that it was a backup in case I break up with her again or change my mind about moving in/getting married.

She still claimed she only looked but never responded to any men. And spent the next 2 weeks excusing her behavior and putting the blame on me. By the time she sincerely apologized, it had been 2 weeks and the damage had already been done. She destroyed my trust in her.

I knew she also had Tinder, but I never told her I knew. Just asked if there were any other sites she had ( she said no).

I will never know if she was actively checking and swiping or just never deleted her account. 

But that was also a problem IMO. If you are back to a committed relationship and are talking about moving in and getting engaged very soon, shouldn't you go and delete your dating profiles instead of leaving them open? 

So yeah, it was absolutely leaving the door open. F that. At least I still had enough integrity and self-esteem to cut my losses and move on from her.


----------



## MikeinTexas

jlg07 said:


> @MikeinTexas, just checking in with you -- how are things?


Hey jlg07,
Thanks for asking. I'm doing alright. 

As you can see from my latest post, I'm still harboring feelings and anger towards my EX GF. I'm also jealous at times because "I believe" she's getting all her needs met and she's showing her good qualities. And sometimes it's those good qualities that I miss and try hard not to blame myself for leaving when I only think about the good things about her.

I know eventually her insecurities will get triggered and because she jumped into dating so fast, that she'll project all her toxic BS on the new guy, just like she did with me because of unresolved baggage from her ex-husband. She dated me before the divorce was final. I almost held out, but didn't. She had big TRUST issues with me despite me NEVER doing anything shady, untrustworthy towards her. It was her ex who did these things to her and I even told her in counseling that she needs to stop projecting it on me because I'm not her husband.

After 5 weeks since our breakup, I finally joined a couple dating apps. Not looking for a new serious relationship right now, but just to start meeting people and seeing where things go from there, slowly. Of course, she was on there but I swiped left(nope) and kept moving forward. Sometimes I still have thoughts that I won't find anyone that has her good qualities, and have to counter with every time with her bad qualities to keep me in check.

I know there's things I need to work on about myself like being assertive, speaking my true feelings and what I stand for vs avoiding confrontation. And not giving in to their demands to avoid them leaving me (all in my head). And a little less "Mr. nice Guy".

I don't want to repeat the same mistakes.


----------



## jlg07

Mike, you keep talking about her good qualities, and I'm sure she has them, but what about those OTHER qualities, like SHE LIED to you about what she did on the apps, and kept upping from getting emails to checking out guys profiles. Telling you flat out that she needs attention from guys and that yours wasn't enough! HUGE red flag if you had gone forward with her. Go to the gym, read those books, improve yourself so that you can recognize these issues going forward before you get invested. Good luck.


----------



## MikeinTexas

> Mike, you keep talking about her good qualities, and I'm sure she has them, but what about those OTHER qualities, like SHE LIED to you about what she did on the apps, and kept upping from getting emails to checking out guys profiles. Telling you flat out that she needs attention from guys and that yours wasn't enough! HUGE red flag if you had gone forward with her. Go to the gym, read those books, improve yourself so that you can recognize these issues going forward before you get invested. Good luck.


Hello jlg07! It's crazy and frustrating the thoughts that come to me at times. I've been using a lot of BUTS lately. Haha. I mean, when I find myself thinking of her good qualities, I finish it with a BUT, she lied, was dishonest, projected blame and cheated. And that has helped me move forward.

But I need to be more careful to not blame myself. Because I know I was NOT Assertive enough with her and kept FIRM Boundaries with her. I sometimes blame myself that if I had better boundaries and assertiveness, that she would not have had these TOXIC behaviors and cheated. You're probably gonna say she's responsible for her actions, eh? I am working of being more assertive and having firm boundaries to protect not only myself, but my relationships with others.

Of course, my therapist labels her a love/relationship addict ( she labeled herself an emotional dependent). I may have had a life of constant confrontations due to her jealousy, lack of trust or even worse...cheating if I married her.


----------



## frusdil

MikeinTexas said:


> *NEW*Is it cheating when.... your SO (of 2+ years) keeps their online dating profile active after a brief breakup 3 months ago? ***
> 
> _OLD: Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?_


Yes.


----------



## snerg

MikeinTexas said:


> *She said she needed the attention *(said mine wasn't enough)


This was all you needed to say.

All the other excuses/reasons are just whispers on the wind

This lifestyle/need is a drama train wreak waiting to smash someone's life.


----------



## Ynot

I haven't read all of the responses. But my first reaction was, aside from the fact that the profile, was the timing of it. I wonder why no one mentioned the obvious red flag of her subscribing to and placing a dating profile a week after a break up from a LTR. Now, I am not saying there is anything right or wrong with that, per se (although many here would caution taking some time to heal first). But from the standpoint of the OP, would you really want to be with someone who thought so little of the relationship to begin with that she moved on so quickly? Or alternatively, do you really want to be with someone so desperate that they had to jump right back into it so soon?


----------



## aine

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers? And I realized my original question was not accurate, so please see **NEW**.
> 
> *NEW*Is it cheating when.... your SO (of 2+ years) keeps their online dating profile active after a brief breakup 3 months ago? ***
> 
> _OLD: Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?_
> 
> I'll clarify & explain.... We had a brief break up last July and she had several dating profiles go up within a week. But apparently, she never deleted them when we got back together a month later in early September. But it wasn't like she forgot to delete them. Because I eventually learned in December after reconciling that she was still checking in, viewing men's profiles who had winked or messaged her. She kept all this hidden from me until I confronted her with my evidence.
> 
> Still cheating??


Yes, it is cheating. She has no boundaries and is keeping one foot in a relationship with your and the other in the playing field. Not the behaviour of a committed partner. Dump her. Why did you have a brief break (so she play the field?)


----------



## ConanHub

Well. Not totally sure about her age but she sounds like a middle aged single mom who is a remorseless slattern.

I have some fairly nerdy friends who have never been good with women who could probably score a classier woman in the red light districts in Thailand.


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## FeministInPink

I'm late to the party, but I'll put my two cents in. While having an active dating profile isn't technically cheating, it shows an intent to cheat and engage with other persons romantically (flirting). 

I would have a HUGE problem with that. Expecting a boy/girlfriend to close their OLD profiles is perfectly reasonable, and if one person keeps theirs open, it shows s/he isn't really present in the relationship.

This is pretty obvious to me, but not so much to a lot of other people, apparently. If I found out that my boyfriend had an open OLD profile, it would be a, "you can have me or the dating profile, but not both" situation. Until you have agreed to be exclusive, an open OLD profile is okay, but once you've agreed to be exclusive, that gets shut down. That is the price of admission for a relationship with me. If you are with me, that means you aren't looking for other potential partners.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MikeinTexas

> Now, I am not saying there is anything right or wrong with that, per se (although many here would caution taking some time to heal first). But from the standpoint of the OP, would you really want to be with someone who thought so little of the relationship to begin with that she moved on so quickly? Or alternatively, do you really want to be with someone so desperate that they had to jump right back into it so soon?


I figured her girlfriends suggested her to jump back in quick to get over me by going under someone. My sis believes she wants to marry asap. Regardless the reasons, it hurt when I found out that she dove in so fast. Like I didn't mean anything to her. Did she lie a week before we brokeup that she still wants to marry? Or is she that delusional?
I waited 5 weeks before jumping back in and a week later started dating. Mainly to have some companionship but also, because my EX labeled me a commitment phobe whose 2 last GFs married after me. Everyone would view me the problem while my newest "EX" goes out and marries the first poor sap. Why should I care?

And while I've been casually dating a couple girls, I can now FEEL even 6 weeks was too soon to jump in. I'm not 100% emotionally invested. Comparing girls with my EX, etc. And it's hard to find a girl who just wants casual sex. So far, the girls I'm dating are revealing they want more than a friend with benefits. And I can't lie to them and use/hurt them to meet my sexual needs. So I plan to go back to focusing on myself and less focusing on dating. And when I'm ready meet a girl who is emotionally invested like me.

Everyone's timing today couldn't have been better. I've been doing good for the last few days. But I know there'll be those moments that will make me miss her/relationship. I know this slowly fades with time. 

Woke up from a foggy dream this morning. Can't remember what happened, but feeling a bit down and thoughts of my EX suggests my dream was likely about her. 
I wasn't really expecting any comments when I came on here today. Just wanted to read the older comments to keep me straight, ya know? 
Viewing this morning's comments was refreshing. Thank you.

AND the answer to your question? NO, I don't want someone like that.


----------



## jlg07

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello jlg07! It's crazy and frustrating the thoughts that come to me at times. I've been using a lot of BUTS lately. Haha. I mean, when I find myself thinking of her good qualities, I finish it with a BUT, she lied, was dishonest, projected blame and cheated. And that has helped me move forward.
> 
> GREAT -- keep doing that anytime you doubt....
> 
> But I need to be more careful to not blame myself. Because I know I was NOT Assertive enough with her and kept FIRM Boundaries with her. I sometimes blame myself that if I had better boundaries and assertiveness, that she would not have had these TOXIC behaviors and cheated. You're probably gonna say she's responsible for her actions, eh? I am working of being more assertive and having firm boundaries to protect not only myself, but my relationships with others.
> 
> I think you WERE pretty firm about boundaries -- she did her dating app stuff, which was passed any boundary you would put up with, and out she went. SHE broke the boundary. Now MAYBE you weren't firm enough in hind sight from your point of view, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would need to explicitly state "You shouldn't be using dating sites if we are Long-term committed"
> 
> Of course, my therapist labels her a love/relationship addict ( she labeled herself an emotional dependent). I may have had a life of constant confrontations due to her jealousy, lack of trust or even worse...cheating if I married her.


Yeah, this alone would be a HUGE problem -- very glad you caught it early and got out...


BTW for this: " Mainly to have some companionship but also, because my EX labeled me a commitment phobe whose 2 last GFs married after me. Everyone would view me the problem while my newest "EX" goes out and marries the first poor sap. Why should I care?" I would correct that opinion to your friends who she is spouting this crap to. YOU were not the one who was so commitment-negative that you kept logging in to dating sites, eh?? YOU were not the one who told her that you just needed the attention and that she wasn't enough! I know you still hurt over this, but as time passes you will see (and I think you already do) how lucky you were that you found out. Look around this site for LOTS of guys who did NOT find out in time that their GF/W needed attention from other men....


----------



## MikeinTexas

aine said:


> Yes, it is cheating. She has no boundaries and is keeping one foot in a relationship with your and the other in the playing field. Not the behaviour of a committed partner. Dump her. Why did you have a brief break (so she play the field?)



if you meant The previous breakup that lasted a month, it was because I felt she was being very controlling and jealous when she had her abandonment/ insecurities triggered. She became upset if my kids or mother took time away from her when she wanted it to be just us. Even when my mom had health issues and I took care of her for 4 days, my ex gf was upset that I couldn't get my sisters to take care of her instead.

Went to visit a friend I haven't seen in a year for the weekend and she was very angry that I didn't come back to see her immediately the next morning morning (despite no set time) while I was driving back at noon time no less. This despite going out her partying with her girlfriends that night and staying at a hotel together. So it wasn't like she was alone. So things like this pushed me away and I broke up with her. 

I didn't know she would jump back in so fast. When my friend told me, I panicked and felt jealous. Then I started to blame myself and went back to her after several weeks of trying to move forward. Mistake to go back.


----------



## *Deidre*

Not sure if it's cheating but it's deceptive. If she's back with you, then she should deactivate those accounts.


----------



## MikeinTexas

*Deidre* said:


> Not sure if it's cheating but it's deceptive. If she's back with you, then she should deactivate those accounts.


Hi Deidre. She's not back with me and I'm not going back to her. I know we all have our own boundaries or definitions of cheating. She knew how I was burned in my marriage by my exwf which was infidelity. When we had our dealbreaker talk years ago when we were going exclusive I told her that cheating/infidelity is a deal breaker and that TRUST is an most important glue in a relationship, so please don't break it. IMO. And for the first two years she didn't. Sucks when you discover something you thought they wouldn't do, because I trusted her.

I never wanted to go through that kind of pain again, IF I COULD HELP IT. I'm not afraid of committing to a relationship, but I'm a little smarter when someone starts acting the way she did, do my homework/investigate to get facts and will end a relationship that violates that trust and respect.

Having your name and face all over dating sites for months while we were back together as we discussed marriage, is a slap in the face and not a regard for respect from her. She hid this from me for MONTHS while her profile was active online and periodically checking out her potential mates. Didn't she think people we know might see her on those sites?

On top of that, when I confronted her about the online dating, she trickle-truthed me. She had no idea how much I knew (which painfully, was a lot). So over a week of trickle truth, lies about how many dating sites she had ( she said it was only the one I brought up when I knew of 2)and putting blame on me for why she did it (not enough attention, backup in case we breakup again) was just as significant than the actual online account. After a week and a half of all that, she finally apologized and said it would never happen again minus the excuses and lies. 

By then, my trust for her was nil. In hindsight, I should have walked away when she trickle truthed me and lied. I actually did, started to leave her house when I confronted, but she started crying and begging me not to leave. It sent chills down my back actually. And I'm way too soft to leave her like that ( she has abandonment issues from childhood). 

A week or so later, she accused me of stringing her along while I figured things out. Asked if I was ready to get married now. I said no, not now. Told her I would no longer , "string her along" and broke up with her. Looking back, I think I was being strung along until she found someone she liked online, or if I broke things off, she was already prepared with men lined up for her. She got her wish I guess?

If she would have been completely transparent from the get-go, I likely would have forgiven her, delete the accounts of course, and then the both of us work on our issues and relationship.
Deceptive? Yeah, that too. Takes a hell of a person to take back and trust someone after that. I'm no longer that guy.

Sorry for the rant Deidre. :wink2:


----------



## LTCNurse

oldshirt said:


> Technically she has one valid point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that where you want to be when Jesus comes back?


:lol:


I was dating a guy exclusively. I found out he had his profile still up. I mentioned it, he deleted it. He never put any pictures of us on his fb profile. Then found out I was blocked from several comments from women. After that, no longer with him.

Behavior like this will continue.


----------



## NickyT

The two are not married, so I feel the area of the separation is a bit gray. After 2 years, one would think that fidelity had been either agreed upon or disagreed upon. One would hope that if fidelity in the relationship had been agreed upon, the question of it during the separation would have been discussed. Not always the case even when it is a marriage that is taking a break. If the separation was actually a break up and not time apart with the expressed intent of getting back together, then I would say there was no cheating.

For one partner to continue to troll dating sites after a reconciliation says to me that the troller is not all in with the relationship. Somewhere there is a kernel of thought that there is someone better out there. It is not cheating, but it is definitely a big enough flag to pull the plug.


----------



## MikeinTexas

NickyT said:


> The two are not married, so I feel the area of the separation is a bit gray. After 2 years, one would think that fidelity had been either agreed upon or disagreed upon. One would hope that if fidelity in the relationship had been agreed upon, the question of it during the separation would have been discussed. Not always the case even when it is a marriage that is taking a break. If the separation was actually a break up and not time apart with the expressed intent of getting back together, then I would say there was no cheating.
> 
> For one partner to continue to troll dating sites after a reconciliation says to me that the troller is not all in with the relationship. Somewhere there is a kernel of thought that there is someone better out there. It is not cheating, but it is definitely a big enough flag to pull the plug.


It was an actual break-up and so she was free to do what she wanted during that 4 week time we split. I have no issues with that. 
But yes, she was trolling dating sites after we clearly reconciled. Two months after we clearly reconciled, with talks of marriage, me planning to sell my home and moving my kids and I in together with her and her kids, I discovered she was actively trolling at least 2 dating sites that I was aware of. These were the dating sites she established when we broke up only continued being active, looking and reading emails from men behind my back. She loved the attention. She was ready in case our reconciliation failed. And maybe she was looking for someone better. 

But doing this while in a committed relationship? That lacks integrity. It lacks honesty. It lacks respect. What else am I missing??

The funny thing is, 2 months after I pulled the plug for good, I no longer put much emphasis on whether it was cheating or not. It's more in the details of her behavior during and later after I confronted her.

What I learned is that her behavior was:

1. Deceptive
2. Breach of Trust
3. Lied
4. Disrespectful

And she did not take responsibility but only trickle truthed, lied and re-directed blame when I confronted her. It took her over a week to finally "sincerely" apologize and say it wouldn't happen again.

Yeah, I pulled the plug on our relationship. A couple weeks later I heard she still didn't see anything wrong with what she did because she didn't respond to all the attention she seeked. So much for her sincere apology.

While her fishing online dating sites was hurtful, the deception and lying was the most appalling.

The following is an excerpt of something I read recently....An ideal relationship is built on trust, openness, mutual respect and personal freedom. But real freedom comes with making a choice, not just about who we are with but how we will treat that person. Choosing to be honest with a partner every day is what keeps love real. And truly choosing that partner every day by one’s own free will is what makes love last. So while freedom to choose is a vital aspect of any healthy and honest union, deception is the third party that should never be welcome in a relationship.


----------



## MikeinTexas

MikeinTexas said:


> It was an actual break-up and so she was free to do what she wanted during that 4 week time we split. I have no issues with that.
> But yes, she was trolling dating sites after we clearly reconciled. Two months after we clearly reconciled, with talks of marriage, me planning to sell my home and moving my kids and I in together with her and her kids, I discovered she was actively trolling at least 2 dating sites that I was aware of. These were the dating sites she established when we broke up only continued being active, looking and reading emails from men behind my back. She NEEDED the attention. She was ready in case our reconciliation failed. And maybe she was looking for someone better.
> 
> But doing this while in a committed relationship? That lacks integrity. It lacks honesty. It lacks respect. What else am I missing??
> 
> The funny thing is, 2 months after I pulled the plug for good, I no longer put much emphasis on whether it was cheating or not. It's more in the details of her behavior during and later after I confronted her.
> 
> What I learned is that her behavior was:
> 
> 1. Deceptive
> 2. Breach of Trust
> 3. Lied
> 4. Disrespectful
> 
> And she did not take responsibility but only trickle truthed, lied and re-directed blame when I confronted her. It took her over a week to finally "sincerely" apologize and say it wouldn't happen again.
> 
> Yeah, I pulled the plug on our relationship. I realized she needed me to fill the empty void inside her, and that it's futile.
> 
> A couple weeks later I heard she still didn't see anything wrong with what she did because she didn't respond to all the attention she seeked. So much for her sincere apology. And her immediately seeking the next relationship days after we broke up told me how much she's addicted to relationships and "being loved".
> 
> While her fishing online dating sites was hurtful, the deception and lying was the most appalling.
> 
> The following is an excerpt of something I read recently....An ideal relationship is built on trust, openness, mutual respect and personal freedom. But real freedom comes with making a choice, not just about who we are with but how we will treat that person. Choosing to be honest with a partner every day is what keeps love real. And truly choosing that partner every day by one’s own free will is what makes love last. So while freedom to choose is a vital aspect of any healthy and honest union, deception is the third party that should never be welcome in a relationship.


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## BluesPower

MikeinTexas said:


> My opinion is that it's cheating. My 2 co-workers were women. They know her, but are not close friends with her. That's why I wanted to get a broader opinion on it. Oh, and it's cool if the fellas joined in. I just didn't want to make sure I was going crazy or was wrong.
> 
> My exgf argued there was nothing wrong with it (even though we were in a committed relationship for years) because we weren't married or committed to marriage yet( even though she wanted a marriage with me and I did too). Her excuse was using it for attention because I didn't give her enough and as backup in case we ever break up again.


Not only is the dating app thing cheating, dude, she has been cheating on you. Why, when you are not married you would cheat is a mystery to me, but it happens. All she had to do what break up clean and she could screw whoever she wanted to. 

You said ExGF, so you dumped her and never looked back, right...


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## MikeinTexas

BluesPower said:


> Not only is the dating app thing cheating, dude, she has been cheating on you. Why, when you are not married you would cheat is a mystery to me, but it happens. All she had to do what break up clean and she could screw whoever she wanted to.
> 
> You said ExGF, so you dumped her and never looked back, right...


Yes! Even though it is harder than I thought to move forward because of the years we spent together, this time, I am without a doubt NOT going back. 

I had no evidence of physical cheating, and more than likely she didn't, based on time we spent together. Still, the emotional aspect of seeking attention, presenting your self as "single and available", redirect blame and not being completely honest when confronted was more than a slap in the face.

There could be an argument for EMOTIONAL cheating? 

Anyways, her behavior showed how unhealthy she is.
It was enough for me to dump her.


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## BluesPower

*It does not matter now...*



MikeinTexas said:


> Yes! Even though it is harder than I thought to move forward because of the years we spent together, this time, I am without a doubt NOT going back.
> 
> I had no evidence of physical cheating, and more than likely she didn't, based on time we spent together. Still, the emotional aspect of seeking attention, presenting your self as "single and available", redirect blame and not being completely honest when confronted was more than a slap in the face.
> 
> There could be an argument for EMOTIONAL cheating?
> 
> Anyways, her behavior showed how unhealthy she is.
> It was enough for me to dump her.


It does not matter now... but understand this. 

If they are in any type of geographical proximity that would allow them to meet, even after a pretty good drive, then they had sex. 

Bottom line. Everyone wants to believe that they did not sleep around on you but if it was physically possible, then they did.


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## ABHale

MikeinTexas said:


> My opinion is that it's cheating. My 2 co-workers were women. They know her, but are not close friends with her. That's why I wanted to get a broader opinion on it. Oh, and it's cool if the fellas joined in. I just didn't want to make sure I was going crazy or was wrong.
> 
> My exgf argued there was nothing wrong with it (even though we were in a committed relationship for years) because we weren't married or committed to marriage yet( even though she wanted a marriage with me and I did too). Her excuse was using it for attention because I didn't give her enough and as backup in case we ever break up again.



:surprise: um keep the other hanging on in case the two of you broke up. :surprise:


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## ABHale

Well at least she has her followers to fall back on. 

You dodged a bullet with you ex man, just think how it would have been if you married that cat.


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## MattMatt

MJJEAN said:


> The act of creating profiles itself isn't cheating in my book. However, it is cheating adjacent, indicates an intent to cheat or, at very least, says you're scoping out your other options and aren't actually committed to the relationship. If my SO made profiles on dating sites and I discovered it, I'd walk on grounds of distrust due to suspicious behavior.


Is it an act of robbery to draw up some very detailed plans to facilitate the robbery of a bank?

If it isn't, it is a part of the robbery process.


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## hinterdir

MikeinTexas said:


> Hello ladies! Can you help me squash a debate I'm having today with my 2 co-workers? And I realized my original question was not accurate, so please see **NEW**.
> 
> *NEW*Is it cheating when.... your SO (of 2+ years) keeps their online dating profile active after a brief breakup 3 months ago? ***
> 
> _OLD: Is it cheating when.... You create a profile(s) on online dating sites behind their back while in a Relationship (2+years)?_
> 
> I'll clarify & explain.... We had a brief break up last July and she had several dating profiles go up within a week. But apparently, she never deleted them when we got back together a month later in early September. But it wasn't like she forgot to delete them. Because I eventually learned in December after reconciling that she was still checking in, viewing men's profiles who had winked or messaged her. She kept all this hidden from me until I confronted her with my evidence.
> 
> Still cheating??


Here's the winning answer:

It's cheating if your mates considers it cheating. Outside of actual intercourse there isn't some worldwide acknowledges manual declaring officially what is and isn't cheating. 

If it bothers your mate, if your mate considers it offensive, cheating, out of bounds and you do it anyway than it's cheating. 

I hear this a lot about "is it ok to go to strip clubs" well, if one wife is fine with it and doesn't care than it's ok for them....if another wife is deeply hurt and considers it unfaithful to her and you know this and do it anyway......than it's cheating.

If your spouse hates it and is hurt you can't turn to some non-existent rulebook of what is and isn't cheating. If your spouse hates it and considers it unfaithful and you do it anyway than in their eyes you've cheated and that is all that matters. That marriage will be having some rocky times.


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## MikeinTexas

hinterdir said:


> Here's the winning answer:
> 
> It's cheating if your mates considers it cheating. Outside of actual intercourse there isn't some worldwide acknowledges manual declaring officially what is and isn't cheating.
> 
> If it bothers your mate, if your mate considers it offensive, cheating, out of bounds and you do it anyway than it's cheating.
> 
> I hear this a lot about "is it ok to go to strip clubs" well, if one wife is fine with it and doesn't care than it's ok for them....if another wife is deeply hurt and considers it unfaithful to her and you know this and do it anyway......than it's cheating.
> 
> If your spouse hates it and is hurt you can't turn to some non-existent rulebook of what is and isn't cheating. If your spouse hates it and considers it unfaithful and you do it anyway than in their eyes you've cheated and that is all that matters. That marriage will be having some rocky times.


I do like your answer. 

But, I think what may have made my situation "tricky" was the "gray area" it seemed to be in. My ex-mate and I had the talks about infidelity early in our relationship and how it damages trust, etc. Plus, she knew what my exwf had done in the past (cheating, gas-lighting, trickle truth, lies, the whole enchilada) to me. We definitely discussed that as deal-breaking. We were committed. We loved each other and only each other. We knew not to get involved with anyone else.

And never mind that she was EXTREMELY Jealous when it came to me and the opposite sex. Lots of projection from her previous toxic marriage. 
And no, I never cheated or did anything remotely close...or far! When I was cheated on years ago, you NEVER want anyone to feel that kind of pain you went through. Probably why I'm one of the most trust-worthy fellas now!! 

Anyways, with this situation, I had no proof she slept with anyone. That would have been a black and white issue and I wouldn't need TAM to get anyone's opinion! 

What seemed "gray" was that we never talked SPECIFICALLY about active dating sites while in a committed relationship, and checking out/ reading desperate men's messages no less. 

I mean, how can we cover every angle of what could be cheating? LOL

She argued that since she didn't reply back to anyone, but only read their messages and viewed their profiles, therefore she never crossed that line and wasn't breaking any deal.

So.... it was almost like SEMANTICS from her. Since we never had a discussion specifically about keeping ACTIVE DATING PROFILES, then it was almost like fair game to her. Despite the two of us talking about marriage during this same time over the next several months. She wanted marriage badly, while keeping one foot secretly out the door.

However, if there was nothing particularly wrong with it, why hide it? Because it was wrong and it breaks trust. Trickle-truthing and blaming me for why she did it did not help her reasoning either.

A friend of mine put it this way. When you are with a committed partner or marriage, there is only one item on the menu...your partner! You don't go around looking at a 100 item menu or buffet.

But the bottom line is that what she did is from the same cloth of breaking your faithful & loyal commitment with your partner. 

Call it whatever you want. 

In the end, I called it a deal breaker.... and ended it.


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## *Deidre*

MikeinTexas said:


> Hi Deidre. She's not back with me and I'm not going back to her. I know we all have our own boundaries or definitions of cheating. She knew how I was burned in my marriage by my exwf which was infidelity. When we had our dealbreaker talk years ago when we were going exclusive I told her that cheating/infidelity is a deal breaker and that TRUST is an most important glue in a relationship, so please don't break it. IMO. And for the first two years she didn't. Sucks when you discover something you thought they wouldn't do, because I trusted her.
> 
> I never wanted to go through that kind of pain again, IF I COULD HELP IT. I'm not afraid of committing to a relationship, but I'm a little smarter when someone starts acting the way she did, do my homework/investigate to get facts and will end a relationship that violates that trust and respect.
> 
> Having your name and face all over dating sites for months while we were back together as we discussed marriage, is a slap in the face and not a regard for respect from her. She hid this from me for MONTHS while her profile was active online and periodically checking out her potential mates. Didn't she think people we know might see her on those sites?
> 
> On top of that, when I confronted her about the online dating, she trickle-truthed me. She had no idea how much I knew (which painfully, was a lot). So over a week of trickle truth, lies about how many dating sites she had ( she said it was only the one I brought up when I knew of 2)and putting blame on me for why she did it (not enough attention, backup in case we breakup again) was just as significant than the actual online account. After a week and a half of all that, she finally apologized and said it would never happen again minus the excuses and lies.
> 
> By then, my trust for her was nil. In hindsight, I should have walked away when she trickle truthed me and lied. I actually did, started to leave her house when I confronted, but she started crying and begging me not to leave. It sent chills down my back actually. And I'm way too soft to leave her like that ( she has abandonment issues from childhood).
> 
> A week or so later, she accused me of stringing her along while I figured things out. Asked if I was ready to get married now. I said no, not now. Told her I would no longer , "string her along" and broke up with her. Looking back, I think I was being strung along until she found someone she liked online, or if I broke things off, she was already prepared with men lined up for her. She got her wish I guess?
> 
> If she would have been completely transparent from the get-go, I likely would have forgiven her, delete the accounts of course, and then the both of us work on our issues and relationship.
> Deceptive? Yeah, that too. Takes a hell of a person to take back and trust someone after that. I'm no longer that guy.
> 
> Sorry for the rant Deidre. :wink2:


Time can heal a lot, and I'm really happy to see that you didn't go back with her.


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## askmft

The way the profiles went up right after the break-up would not classify as cheating. However, it does demonstrate that the person was not happy/satisfied with the relationship they were in and when they were free "break-Up" they tended to take the oppurtunity to explore a better alternative than to try and fix what they have been going through for two years. It would not be considered cheating, because the profiles and the person went out to explore possibilties after breaking up. If they had gone on profiles and social media looking for a partner while in a relationship, happy or sad, they would than be considered cheating.


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## MikeinTexas

askmft said:


> The way the profiles went up right after the break-up would not classify as cheating. However, it does demonstrate that the person was not happy/satisfied with the relationship they were in and when they were free "break-Up" they tended to take the oppurtunity to explore a better alternative than to try and fix what they have been going through for two years. It would not be considered cheating, because the profiles and the person went out to explore possibilties after breaking up. If they had gone on profiles and social media looking for a partner while in a relationship, happy or sad, they would than be considered cheating.


Howdy,

I think you may have got lost in my thread. It is long and all over the place, so I can understand. 

The short answer to your statement is she went looking for a partner during the breakup AND during the relationship. I have no issue with the former (how does immediately jumping into another relationship to mask the pain work for most people?), but I did have an issue with the latter and I think you would too.

To simplify what happened in my former relationship:

1. We broke up at the end of July.

2. Heard she was on dating sites immediately. ( Hurt, but she can do as she pleases at that point).

3. We start talking again and start reconciling in mid September.

4. We talk about moving in together, getting engaged and blending our families together too. We include our kids in this conversation in mid October. She was a big proponent of this. It's what she desperately wanted and I wanted it too. Pretty significant & exclusive at that point, eh?

5. I shockingly discover she is active on two dating sites (Tinder and Match) in November/early December ( she left her phone next to me and a message popped up on screen). Likely never deleted them when we became exclusive again and I hoped it was an innocent slip of the mind, BUT she was currently ACTIVE on them. And she has the best memory of anyone I've ever met, so...

6. I do my homework and monitor her activity for the next couple of weeks. She was active often, but I had no proof she was talking or screwing anyone on the side. At the very least, I discover she is LOOKING at other men's profiles. She was even actively looking on my bday and when I was in her presence.
Her profiles, with sexy profile pics of her said she is looking for a partner to share her interests with.

7. I finally expose and confront her. 

8. She minimizes and lies at first. I stay the course questioning her with what I know. Then blames me for not enough attention, plus back-up in case we break up again. Said since we weren't officially engaged/married yet, no harm-no foul.

9. I re-evaluate everything over the next week or so ( too long). 

10. She asks me do I still want to marry and I said not right now and that we need to work through what happened with the damaged trust. She tells me she no longer wants to be "strung-along". I ask for a few days to think about everything.

11. We finally talk one last time. I say I want to end the relationship. She blames me for not keeping my word for getting married and becoming a family and expected me to explain this to her kids. I tell her she wouldn't want me telling her kids the real reason why I broke up with her.

Looking back, she never really took any real responsibility with her online dating searches and minimized them completely. She manipulated our dynamic that things were usually my fault which I unfortunately allowed and was damaging. It confirmed that I would have been burned down the road even worse if I remained and got married.

In hindsight, it was a learning experience of what I would allow and not allow in a relationship. My boundaries were weak in some areas, but strong enough in others. I learned that personal boundaries are important for our well-being and luckily it saved me from future pain and heartache.


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## askmft

Very well. I didn't get lost in your a lot to read the expressive thread. I summed it up the answer with the initial paragraph. I really appreciate the follow-up reply you quoted and elaborated to your story. You have learned a very important lesson and also attained a scar throughout the process which will never go away, (a good thing) as that scar will work in your subconscious to alert you of similar patterns in future relationship. What you do need to realize is that, even though she blames you for calling off the wedding and not going along your commitments, just swallow it and let her walk away. A lot of times we as humans, when we are caught with our mistakes red-handed, we tend to cover it up and or blame it on others, without fixing the issue that becomes a habit in our life. From my experience, the next relationship she will involve herself in, the problem she went through with you will also trigger her in her subconscious, and cause her to repeat the cycle she did with you to other guys until she actually resolves this issue of coping and working out relationship problems. What can you do to prevent the same situation from happening again? Take control of the situation. Don't get involved in a new relationship right away. Evaluate the very first incident that happened, when you felt you guys are not on the same page. The very first problem you guys encountered is the source of this epidemic cycle. Figure out what that problem was, and how did you react and she reacts to it. Had you reacted differently, would it have escalated to the next level which created the distance between the two of you, emotionally and physically. Evaluate your sex life as well, if you were sexually active. Most times, couples that are having emotional and communicative problems most times don't really have a sex problem, if they do then that's good, otherwise, you will have to seek further evaluations and analysis of your relationship. The whole point is to analyze and understand the roots of the problems to prevent it from repeating again. Feel free to message me in the inbox on this site if you would like a detailed analysis of your relationship. Good luck in your future relationships.


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## MikeinTexas

Sunsmiles77 said:


> Is it a matter of she put them up, reconciled with you, and just forgot about them or doesn't ever check them? If so, not cheating.
> Is it a matter of her still actively perusing them? YES, cheating.
> If you're in a committed relationship then you should both be fully committed to it and not looking or hoping for someone better to come along.


Hi Sunsmiles, 

Cool Username!

She was actively fishing on the dating sites. When I made the discovery at first, I thought she either forgot or she was fishing/ actively looking.

I didn't say anything and started to investigate because I've been burned badly for trusting my last partner( my exwf) who I thought might be cheating, was told she wasn't but actually was. 

I was hoping it was a mistake/ that my GF forgot to cancel it. But my heart sank when I discovered she was active and was looking at other men's profiles. So my GF turned into my EXGF.


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## MikeinTexas

askmft said:


> Very well. I didn't get lost in your a lot to read the expressive thread. I summed it up the answer with the initial paragraph. I really appreciate the follow-up reply you quoted and elaborated to your story. You have learned a very important lesson and also attained a scar throughout the process which will never go away, (a good thing) as that scar will work in your subconscious to alert you of similar patterns in future relationship. What you do need to realize is that, even though she blames you for calling off the wedding and not going along your commitments, just swallow it and let her walk away. A lot of times we as humans, when we are caught with our mistakes red-handed, we tend to cover it up and or blame it on others, without fixing the issue that becomes a habit in our life. From my experience, the next relationship she will involve herself in, the problem she went through with you will also trigger her in her subconscious, and cause her to repeat the cycle she did with you to other guys until she actually resolves this issue of coping and working out relationship problems. What can you do to prevent the same situation from happening again? Take control of the situation. Don't get involved in a new relationship right away. Evaluate the very first incident that happened, when you felt you guys are not on the same page. The very first problem you guys encountered is the source of this epidemic cycle. Figure out what that problem was, and how did you react and she reacts to it. Had you reacted differently, would it have escalated to the next level which created the distance between the two of you, emotionally and physically. Evaluate your sex life as well, if you were sexually active. Most times, couples that are having emotional and communicative problems most times don't really have a sex problem, if they do then that's good, otherwise, you will have to seek further evaluations and analysis of your relationship. The whole point is to analyze and understand the roots of the problems to prevent it from repeating again. Feel free to message me in the inbox on this site if you would like a detailed analysis of your relationship. Good luck in your future relationships.


Sorry, but I couldn't find a way to message you!

I went back to see my original first post and I can see how my question was asked clearly, so I edited it one last time. Hopefully, my question is no longer ambiguous! Ha!

I appreciate your advice. My self-blame can be notorious for me and I found that it impeded me moving forward post break-up. I had to forgive myself in order to get unstuck.

As for sex, it was always good and frequent, even when things were not that good. As a guy, I thought I was lucky that she was always wanting sex. But I think there could be red flags for all the wrong reasons too.

I also remember the FIRST time we encountered our first issue. My boundaries were strong at the start, but she kept hammering at me ( she wanted me to change my relationship with my father in law/ my kid's grandfather). I actually got up to leave at one point, but she convinced me to stay and talk it out. I reluctantly gave in. My strong boundary suddenly became a weak one. I just didn't want to argue anymore.

I felt she was being controlling, insecure and ridiculous.

But giving in gave a part of myself away and eventually it made me unhappy and resent her. So I learned a lesson from this as well. Stick with your boundaries!

As for her learning from mistakes, she did admit that she's emotionally needy just before we broke up, but a few days later, when we broke up, she jumped back in the dating pool immediately which indicates she will continue to make the same mistakes and carry all the "baggage" into her next relationship. Why? Because it's so much easier to distract yourself with a replacement and/or sleep with someone so you don't have to deal with the pain of the breakup. She did exactly this when she and I started our relationship and eventually acted on them in a toxic way when she was triggered because she never coped with and found resolution/peace with her previous wounds.

It also told me she really wasn't serious about taking responsibility and a willingness to change her behaviors.

She did the same thing with me during her divorce ( her marriage was very toxic). I discovered she projected a lot of the issues from her marriage into our relationship which wore me down (especially because my boundaries were weak).

After we broke up I took a little over a month to try and heal. I then started dating again ( advice from friends) and met a nice girl. Strangely enough, she shared she had abandonment issues which drew a big red flag because my exgf shared the same thing with me. A week later we had an argument that was like deja vu with my exgf. This time, I stayed true to my boundaries and she still didn't like it so we ended the relationship. So I am learning!! 

Right now, I have taken a break from dating. I want to completely heal because I am not emotionally ready for a new relationship. Plus, I also want to work on myself: my self-esteem, self-confidence, boundaries, new friends, and new hobbies. I want a new version of me that I can love again And get to a point where I would like/WANT a Relationship and NOT needing a relationship.

So that's one of my keys: loving myself.

My exgf needed love because she did not love herself. She needed me to fill that empty void, which in reality can never be filled completely. I also feel our relationship became co-dependent, mainly with her being jealous, insecure and untrustworthy while I lacked self-worth, weak boundaries and confidence. 

We can definitely learn the good and bad from relationships and work on improving ourselves if we give it time.


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## ABHale

Sunsmiles77 said:


> Dump her.


He did months ago.


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