# Moving after divorce with a manipulative ex wife.



## Andy101

For those of you that have read my previous posts, I have started a new thread to explore a new way forward from what has been a marriage full of lies and manipulation and is now continuing to marr my future.

I am slowly coming to terms with my situation and realising how narcisstic my ex wife really is. I was a sucker for her looks and charm that kept me controlled and under her spell for over a decade. But since she has moved on, her true character has come to the surface. She only has space in her life for her own insecurities and need to be admired. Not by me anymore as she is getting her needs met for now. The problem is that she cannot handle that I am still around because of the kids. This makes her angry but she will try to contine to use me when convenient and god help me if I do not toe the line.

After what was a fairly amicable divorce, she has turned against me in spectacular fashion. I am trying to rebuild my life and move on myself. I have two dates this weekend with two different women. It's the only cure to rid myself of the attachements from this wicked self obssessed woman. Please tell me of you're experiences and how you are overcoming co dependancy and how you deal with manipulation and emotional black mail.


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## SunCMars

Neither "toe the line" nor "tote the line" that she wants to burden you with. BE INDIFFERENT.

Show up with a smile leave with the same demeanor....really de-mean-her. Take the sting out of each visit by giving her no cause to be pissy.

She is angry..Why?...What is your take?

Seeing you move on?
Seeing your lack of needing her?

Hating herself?
Hating how herself ended up?

Not that YOU should give a Rat's ass. Don't give the Lady Rat a red ass. Just be happy, short lipped, professional.

In/Out.... no friction from you. I cannot help myself.


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## Satya

Your kids will remember who the confident, level-headed parent was and who was the mean-spirited, bag of cats. 

Especially when her crazy antics turn directly on them. With an OM in the picture, it's just a matter of time until it happens.

The inward journey you're on, should focus on developing a more healthy life for you and your kids. Your ex is gonna do what she's gonna do. Once you show her (not tell, SHOW) you are not her court jester /punching bag/ whipping boy, she'll back off and pick on the OM. All it takes is time, patience, and popcorn. But by then you'll have moved way on from her, so you won't care anyway. 

You with me?


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## arbitrator

*I'd have to say that to let your XW know, in no uncertain terms, that she gave up that preeminent right to try to control your life whenever she either told you or did something to you that so blatantly screamed out, "I don't want to be married to you any longer!"*


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## 225985

Sell the house!


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## Ynot

Just remember, she can only manipulate you if you allow her to. So don't react. Don't respond, Just be indifferent. She has lost the "right" to affect who you are, what you are or where you are going.

I suffered a similar fate during my divorce. As long as she got what she wanted, everything was fine. I was a fool and took her at her word. I accepted her niceness as a sign of potential reconciliation and went along. Alternately her anger I took as a sign I was being unreasonable. Hoping that by being "reasonable" and "generous" that she would see that I truly loved her and wanted to remain married. In the end it cost me. I was very resentful when things still fell apart and my efforts went unrewarded. But in hindsight, it had been those same on-going efforts to appease her all along, which really had made me so miserable while I had been married. In the end, I have come to agree, that whatever I lost, it was the best money I ever spent. Now, I am free. I am free to have a truly personal one on one relationship with both of my children as well as their spouses. After the divorce she bought a condo, was living the life and seemed to be doing well. Later on I heard she was working two jobs to make ends meet because she had lost the high paying job (in her mind) she had had. Karma?

Just don't allow her to manipulate her. Let her go ballistic, it is no longer your problem, it has no effect on your life, so let her vent. As long as she is rewarded for her effort, she will continue to make it. Take away her reward and she will soon tire of trying.


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## C3156

Andy101 said:


> Please tell me of you're experiences and how you are overcoming co dependancy and how you deal with manipulation and emotional black mail.


I believe the correct term is "boundaries." 

Don't engage with you ex unless it is about your kids. Even then, make sure it is relevant and actually requires your attention. I would highly recommend that you limit interaction to only text or email, not only can you control your response (or lack of response), you have an electronic trail of what she says. Let all calls go to voicemail. Read and listen and respond at your leisure, you are not at her beck and call any more. By not responding to everything, you can't be drawn into her narcissistic drama. Only respond, electronically, to important issues.

Take the high road, which can be a bitter pill to swallow, but let your kids and other people see who is the cool, level headed one. It may take a little while for your ex to be weaned, but it can be done. When she finally realizes that you won't engage in her little world, she will shift her attention elsewhere. 

You are no longer her husband, you don't have to deal with her crap anymore.


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## Bananapeel

I'll second the developing boundaries idea. With my XWW if she wanted to discuss something other than the kids, then I'd just directly tell her I wasn't comfortable having that conversation with her and that I wasn't willing to discuss whatever the topic was. She got the point after about 6 months and ceased to be a bother. However, if it involves the kids I'm there 100%, even if it means I'm picking up the slack for her because it is for my kids direct benefit. Remember the goal isn't to be her friend, it is to develop a civil relationship where you can co-parent in a way that works for the kids.


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## SunCMars

Ynot said:


> Just remember, she can only manipulate you if you allow her to.
> 
> *So let her vent.* As long as she is rewarded for her effort, she will continue to make it. Take away her reward and she will soon tire of trying.


That is it.

She is venting. For her, that is healthy...to a degree. Release the super heated steam; as do Volcanoes, most of their long lives.

The wish? That she be dormant. Dormant until the children are on their own.

She is venting, because the inner pressure is always there. This is what caused her to leave the marriage. The unbalance of "her needs and your needs".

This is what has caused her to lose her molten marbles. Expelled one mini blast at a time. 

She be a troubled soul to those [of us] without............ and to her?

She is a corrosive and volatile mixture of bodily chemicals, within. A two legged container of Minestrone soup........... with too many gas producing beans.

There is no marriage "Beano" recipe...save distance and earplugs.


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## Wolf1974

First of all give yourself some time, this will get easier.

Second make a plan. Don't get stuck in the rut of its over and I have to rebuild. Instead make a bucket list of things you want to accomplish in life and how you will get to it. You'll find little time to wallow while moving your life forward.

Third all communication with your x needs to stop unless it's about the kids period. She is no longer entitled to anything about your life.

In time your new life will take shape and your old marriedlife will seem as though it happend to someone else.


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## 225985

Let us know how the dates went. 

Not if you got a second date from them but how you felt during the date.


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## Andy101

The date on friday turned into a weekend..she is really into me but I am not attracted to her in that way. Nice lady and very mature but the sex did not feel right. I have a date with another girl tomorrow. I hope it is a better match.. The only good thing was spending time with someone who was completely different to my ex. She was interested in me and it helped me to forget about my problems if only for two days. 

The ex has not been in touch apart from complaining that my whatsapp profile pic was making a mockery out if daughtwr's special day..pic was of me with the disney princess hired for her party. I ignored her jibe.


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## joannacroc

Andy101 said:


> *The date on friday turned into a weekend..she is really into me but I am not attracted to her in that way. Nice lady and very mature but the sex did not feel right.* I have a date with another girl tomorrow. I hope it is a better match.. The only good thing was spending time with someone who was completely different to my ex. She was interested in me and it helped me to forget about my problems if only for two days.
> 
> The ex has not been in touch apart from complaining that my whatsapp profile pic was making a mockery out if daughtwr's special day..pic was of me with the disney princess hired for her party. I ignored her jibe.


Can I gently ask why you slept with her if you weren't attracted to her? If you're honest with her about not wanting something serious, that's one thing, but if you're using her to get over your ex, that's not really fair on her. Especially being around a narcissist for so long, I'm sure you've discovered how hurtful it is when someone uses you to further their own agenda - your wife used you to prop up her self-esteem, and give her ego kibbles, don't use this woman. Don't let your ex turn you into someone you're not.


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## 225985

Of course it doesn't feel right. You probably are still comparing to your ex, or you perceived memory of it. 

No sex tonight. If you like her, have a second date. 

Where did you meet these ladies?


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## Andy101

I met them on a dating app. I don't know if I'll see the one I spent the weekend with again. As a friend she would be great. She could tell that I was nervous about the whole thing. I went along with what she wanted. She lives too far as well. Surely she understands that it would be difficult to sustain a relationship when we both have commitments to our kids in different parts of the country.


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## Andy101

I know it's probably crazy of me to be dating so hard after nothing for so long, but I am new to this and don't really know what to expect or do in certain situations. I don't really know what I am looking for yet.

I have another bug bear though. Today when I drove past the family home, my ex wife's new boyfriend was there with his kids. He parked on my drive way and this got to me. It's like they are all playing happy families with my kids in my house..where do I stand here? Should I be concerned ir am I over reacting?


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> I know it's probably crazy of me to be dating so hard after nothing for so long, but I am new to this and don't really know what to expect or do in certain situations. I don't really know what I am looking for yet.
> 
> I have another bug bear though. Today when I drove past the family home, my ex wife's new boyfriend was there with his kids. He parked on my drive way and this got to me. It's like they are all playing happy families with my kids in my house..where do I stand here? Should I be concerned ir am I over reacting?


Out of your control. Nothing you can do. Ignore it and use this to take total control of your life.

Which in the past you have not been able to do.


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## browser

joannacroc said:


> Can I gently ask why you slept with her if you weren't attracted to her?


 @joannacroc

It's a guy thing. Don't try to understand.


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## 225985

Why did you drive past the house? Is that the only way to your place?

Sell the ****ing house and that problem goes away.

Btw, I don't think you will sell the house because you still expect to get back with her.


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## 225985

browser said:


> @joannacroc
> 
> It's a guy thing. Don't try to understand.




From what he wrote she wanted it. He was being nice


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## Ynot

Andy101 said:


> I know it's probably crazy of me to be dating so hard after nothing for so long, but I am new to this and don't really know what to expect or do in certain situations. I don't really know what I am looking for yet.
> 
> I have another bug bear though. Today when I drove past the family home, my ex wife's new boyfriend was there with his kids. He parked on my drive way and this got to me. It's like they are all playing happy families with my kids in my house..where do I stand here? Should I be concerned ir am I over reacting?


it isn't crazy at all. In fact despite what some women claim, there are just as many woman out there doing the exact same thing. How else are you going to discover what you want if you don't experiment? Just be honest about what you want and where you are. Then it becomes their choice.


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## Andy101

Over the last week., I have become concerned that my ex never contacts me to tell me what the kids are doing. Even when I eventually have to ask..she tells me very little. She doesn't even encourage them to call me on the phone. She used to always tell me about them but this new guy has changed her in a big way. Is she purposely alienating the kids from me? Feel like she just wishes I would just disappear out of her life the way she treats me now.


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## Bananapeel

Great! Disappear from her life and move on with yours. About the kids....when you have your kids be the best dad you can, and when she has them enjoy being a free man. As long as you know she's taking proper care of them when they are in her custody you have nothing to worry about. If there isn't enough communication, then buy them a cell phone so they can call you whenever they want. I personally make sure my kids know that they are my top priority. I go to the parent-teacher conferences at their school, go to their various sports lessons/activities, chaperone school field trips, check their homework, help with science fair projects, take them to religious activities, and let them pick activities they want to do with me. It's not hard to be the better parent and if you are then the kids will naturally take it upon themselves to keep you involved in their lives and there will be nothing she can do about it.


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## Taxman

She is using the communication with your children to manipulate you. This is "black widow" mentality, even though she has the new guy, she needs to keep you tethered. Detach. Buy the kids their own phone to talk to you. Document everything that seems untoward and at a convenient time, take her back to court. 

There was an old book I used when building my practice called "Winning through Intimidation". Slow, steady and quiet wins. Never let her see you coming.


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## browser

Andy101 said:


> Is she purposely alienating the kids from me? Feel like she just wishes I would just disappear out of her life the way she treats me now.


No doubt she's alienating. As a self proclaimed "expert" on Parental Alienation and having been a victim of it myself, I will answer your question with a simple statement. 

Parental Alienation is a part of many, if not most, if not all divorces, however there are differences between "active" and "passive" alienators, which for all practical purposes really means how bad the aliening behavior really is. For your situation, it probably doesn't really matter whether she knows she's doing it or not, because there's not much if anything you can do to change her behavior. What you need to do is join the club of self proclaimed "Parental Alienation Experts" such as myself and develop strategies to deal with it. Looking back on how I did, I failed miserably. But it's not too late for you.


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## Andy101

The kids just tell me that mummy doesn't play with us anymore. I have since played harder with them and keep them as happy as I physically can! This weekend I'll have them..we sit on the floor together and we chat about what they are feeling and thinking..then we hit the scate park! 

She wants to play hard ball. She even stated on whatsapp that if I don't toe the line and take "RESPONSIBILITY"for the girls...she will take me to court. All because I wouldn't take the kids one night when she wanted to see this guy! 

When ever I ask her about why she doesn't keep me informed. She doesn't answer. If I ask how they are she just says fine. Although she will say that my youngest asks when she can see me...just to put another knife in me.


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## browser

Andy101 said:


> When ever I ask her about why she doesn't keep me informed. She doesn't answer. If I ask how they are she just says fine. Although she will say that my youngest asks when she can see me...just to put another knife in me.


Don't you see your youngest regularly?

I guess even every other weekend and once during the week (standard visitation) isn't all that often.. those in between days must really drag.


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## bandit.45

joannacroc said:


> Can I gently ask why you slept with her if you weren't attracted to her? If you're honest with her about not wanting something serious, that's one thing, but if you're using her to get over your ex, that's not really fair on her. Especially being around a narcissist for so long, I'm sure you've discovered how hurtful it is when someone uses you to further their own agenda - your wife used you to prop up her self-esteem, and give her ego kibbles, don't use this woman. Don't let your ex turn you into someone you're not.


How is he using her? If he made it clear to her up front that he has no intentions of getting serious with her, how is he exploiting her? I doubt he had to slip a pill in her drink to get her to want to have sex with him. 

Why do you women always jump to that conclusion?


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## bandit.45

Andy101 said:


> The kids just tell me that mummy doesn't play with us anymore. I have since played harder with them and keep them as happy as I physically can! This weekend I'll have them..we sit on the floor together and we chat about what they are feeling and thinking..then we hit the scate park!
> 
> She wants to play hard ball. She even stated on whatsapp that if I don't toe the line and take "RESPONSIBILITY"for the girls...she will take me to court. All because I wouldn't take the kids one night when she wanted to see this guy!
> 
> When ever I ask her about why she doesn't keep me informed. She doesn't answer. If I ask how they are she just says fine. Although she will say that my youngest asks when she can see me...just to put another knife in me.


Tell her that you are not under any court order or legal obligation to take the kids beyond what is specified in the custody agreement.


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## 225985

bandit.45 said:


> Tell her that you are not under any court order or legal obligation to take the kids beyond what is specified in the custody agreement.




This is a fuzzy area Andy never clarified. He is in UK. 


Andy, what is the legal custody and visitation as per the divorce decree? Or is it still totally up to your ex?

What is the status of selling the house?

How was date #2?

As the others asked, why do you continue to talk to her?

Don't ask her what the girls did. She will not give you any answer you want. Ask the girls when you see them. 

You know how your ex is and what she will do. You need to set a path forward based on what you can control, not what your ex allows. 

Sell the house Andy.


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## Ynot

Andy, I am confused. First, your ex was manipulative and abusive, now you say she is ignoring you. So I have to ask who is pushing who's buttons here?
You don't need to worry about her not playing with the kids, that is on her. She will reap the consequences of that (in)action. You shouldn't be relying on your ex to tell you what is going on with the kids - you ask them yourself when you have them. You should be glad she is not engaging you, this is what you claimed to have wanted. Now, go look in the mirror and ask yourself what is that you really want.


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## Andy101

I just want to have normal communication with her as this is going to go on for years. I want to be at least civil and put the childrens interests first. I don't need manipulation or bad blood just because of her seeing another guy. Feel like she can only have one focus and everyone else can go to hell. I get it that her man probably doesn't want me around but it doesn't mean she has to be a complete ***** about everything. 

The other date was with an American woman. She was nice but it would never go anywhere as she has too many interests in California. I have lined up other dates but nobody seems sincere on these apps! Feel like giving up on it all for the time being be nice to just meet someone in person.


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## Pluto2

Your Ex is under no obligation to encourage the kids to speak to you. Your relationship with your children is your responsibility. Gone are the days when she makes a report to you-that's what spouses used to do.

You, Dad, must establish your own avenues of communication. The ex can't stop it, but unless you have a custody order that says she must place a call to you twice a week for the purposes of communicating with the children-she doesn't have to do anything.

And sleeping with new women on the first day, so soon after a divorce will do nothing for your path to healing. It will only lead to hook ups with empty bodies. I guess if that is all you want then have at it, but if you want an actual relationship with someone that is not the way to do it. You need to heal and grow from your prior marriage. What were the warning signs in your prior relationship that you ignored? Why did you do that? Have you properly handled your porn use?


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## browser

Pluto2 said:


> Your Ex is under no obligation to encourage the kids to speak to you. Your relationship with your children is your responsibility. Gone are the days when she makes a report to you-that's what spouses used to do.
> 
> You, Dad, must establish your own avenues of communication. The ex can't stop it, but unless you have a custody order that says she must place a call to you twice a week for the purposes of communicating with the children-she doesn't have to do anything.


No she doesn't "have" to do anything towards encouraging the children to speak to their father, however a responsible parent who understands that in most cases children benefit from a relationship with both parents and are damaged by not having it, will make a solid attempt to keep the kids in contact with their father.

That much said, I get that most custodial parents tend not to do that, and if anything whether intentionally or otherwise, tend to alienate the noncustodial parent to some degree especially if the divorce is acrimonious.


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## Hope Shimmers

Andy, I'm not familiar with your back story but it seems fairly evident from your thread that you aren't totally over your ex-wife, and that it may be too early for you to date and certainly too early to be jumping into bed with random women.

I went through this kind of communication thing regarding the kids with my ex-husband after my divorce, and I can promise you that it does get better. Right now she is using the kids to jab at you and irritate you. And you are worried about things you can't control (ie, her boyfriend and relationship with him). You two are poking back and forth at each other because of the residual resentment, anger, etc from your past relationship. Your focus is on your kids, but it's also on her. What you have to do is take her out of the equation.

I think you should take the advice of others and stop asking her about how the kids are doing. Buy them phones. Be clear with them how you want to be available for them anytime they need you. Unless there is evidence that she is abusing them, you can't control what she does with them when they are with her. Nor should you try. You CAN control what happens when they are with you. 

Yes, it would be nice if she prioritized the kids such that she would offer you information as to how they are doing, especially if you don't see them often. But the fact is that she isn't required to, and this doesn't always happen after divorce. You just have to work to find ways to leave her out of it and find out directly from the kids how they are doing.

As YNot said, though, I think you should look in the mirror and really think about why you are interacting with her in these ways, and what it is that you truly want to happen. You need to take her out of the equation, but I'm wondering if you are really wanting to do that.


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## 225985

Will you give us an update on selling the house?


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## Pluto2

browser said:


> No she doesn't "have" to do anything towards encouraging the children to speak to their father, however a responsible parent who understands that in most cases children benefit from a relationship with both parents and are damaged by not having it, will make a solid attempt to keep the kids in contact with their father.
> 
> That much said, I get that most custodial parents tend not to do that, and if anything whether intentionally or otherwise, tend to alienate the noncustodial parent to some degree especially if the divorce is acrimonious.


You miss the point.
Either Andy can continue to be her "victim" who he claims is alienating the kids by not encouraging communication. 

or,
he can be proactive as a parent, regardless of what she does or doesn't do. Form his own lines and practices of communication. If she thwarts them, then he can take further action in the court.

How he parents is not her responsibility, it is his.


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## browser

Pluto2 said:


> You miss the point.
> Either Andy can continue to be her "victim" who he claims is alienating the kids by not encouraging communication.
> 
> or,
> he can be proactive as a parent, regardless of what she does or doesn't do. Form his own lines and practices of communication. If she thwarts them, then he can take further action in the court.
> 
> How he parents is not her responsibility, it is his.


Realistically, alienating parents cannot be effectively dealt with via the American court system, which is fairly good at dividing up money but fails miserably when it comes to "the best interests of the children".

Even if Andy could prove his case to a sympathetic caring judge, it's an expensive, slow process that rarely results in the court doing anything to prevent the ongoing alienation although there have been a few instances where the courts have gone so far as to place the children with the alienating parent but from a practical point of view Andy is better off spending his time and efforts being the best parent he can be to his children which it appears he is doing and which you seem to be in agreement with.


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## 225985

browser said:


> Realistically, alienating parents cannot be effectively dealt with via the American court system, which is fairly good at dividing up money but fails miserably when it comes to "the best interests of the children".
> 
> Even if Andy could prove his case to a sympathetic caring judge, it's an expensive, slow process that rarely results in the court doing anything to prevent the ongoing alienation although there have been a few instances where the courts have gone so far as to place the children with the alienating parent but from a practical point of view Andy is better off spending his time and efforts being the best parent he can be to his children which it appears he is doing and which you seem to be in agreement with.




Unfortunately for Andy he is within the UK court system which according to his words in his other thread give very few rights to the father. 

I think you and @Pluto2 are saying the same thing. Andy needs to deal with his daughters according to his own proactive plan, and should expect zero support from Ex.


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## browser

blueinbr said:


> Unfortunately for Andy he is within the UK court system which according to his words in his other thread give very few rights to the father.


Our great country isn't all that different.


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## Andy101

One of my main issues is that she lies about everything and also, in her eyes, if she doesn't tell me things or withholds information, she thinks she isn't lying. She made up a story about going home from her mothers house alone to get some sleep. The kids were with their gran. I know she when to see her boyfriend but hopes that I will back her story up when the girls wonder where mommy went...it's all just a game and I never know what is real...plus, I made the mistake of finding her lover on Facebook...now I have his face to deal with..


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## farsidejunky

You reap what you sow, Andy. You made the "mistake" of finding her boyfriend on FB? Really?!?

Whether or not she is lying about where she goes when you have the girls is not your problem. Your problem is you are not letting go.

You are where you are because you want to be. She is no longer doing these things to you; YOU are doing them to you.


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## manfromlamancha

You have been asked several times but have not replied - why did you move out of the house ? Why didn't she ?


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## Evinrude58

Move on or be miserable. Accept she's gone, move forward. You're just mentally staying in misery of your own choosing.

If you'll move on in your head, you will get to indeffierce toward her. You've got to let it all go.


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## 225985

manfromlamancha said:


> You have been asked several times but have not replied - why did you move out of the house ? Why didn't she ?




He always hoped to get back together or he was worried about his family moving far away. Water under the bridge now. 

Andy, I will ask a third time. What is the progress on selling the house? Evidently you want the new guy to sleep and live there since you won't sell it. How is that working for you?

This is under your control but you choose not to act.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> One of my main issues is that she lies about everything and also, in her eyes, if she doesn't tell me things or withholds information, she thinks she isn't lying. She made up a story about going home from her mothers house alone to get some sleep. The kids were with their gran. I know she when to see her boyfriend but hopes that I will back her story up when the girls wonder where mommy went...it's all just a game and I never know what is real...plus, I made the mistake of finding her lover on Facebook...now I have his face to deal with..




Would you prefer she told you the truth, that she went to bang the other guy? Wasn't she banging other guys when you were married?

Both the truth and the lie would equally bother you. Until you move on. 

Andy, moving on is not a destination. It is a journey. The pain will ease as long as you keep taking positive steps forward, even small steps help. You will have some setbacks but keep moving forward. 

You will NEVER be free as long as they live in YOUR house? Are you still paying the mortgage or is the home paid for and wife is living rent free in your house. 

You can lie to yourself that you are leaving the house so as to not disrupt the girls. But the girls need a healthy functioning father more than they need that house. And if they have to move it is because of the choice their mother made, not you.


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## Andy101

I was told to leave the house by the court. She has the right to be there because she is the main carer to the kids. 
The house cannot be sold unless she is in agreement. She is not. Therefore she has to raise funds to buy my share. This agreement is in place until the youngest child is 18 years old. I am basically screwed unless she finds the cash.

I am trying to move on. I have dated 8 women in three weeks. I am doing everything I physically can to find someone special. It's the only way out as far as I can see. I have another date tonight and it will continue. Tinder is a wonderful thing but it's also so frustrating.


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## lorikeet25

I think your intentions in dating are acting against your interests. You sound desperate and women can smell that. 
Try dating just to have fun and maybe make some friends. Changing your focus may help you with your ultimate goal of finding someone special.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> I was told to leave the house by the court. She has the right to be there because she is the main carer to the kids.
> The house cannot be sold unless she is in agreement. She is not. Therefore she has to raise funds to buy my share. This agreement is in place until the youngest child is 18 years old. I am basically screwed unless she finds the cash.
> 
> I am trying to move on. I have dated 8 women in three weeks. I am doing everything I physically can to find someone special. It's the only way out as far as I can see. I have another date tonight and it will continue. Tinder is a wonderful thing but it's also so frustrating.




Wow. So is she paying the mortgage? She gets a rent free house and you have to pay rent for your place?

And you still have to pay support?

That's insane. The UK sucks.


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## MEM2020

Andy,
Totally normal to feel lonely - want to meet someone. 

That said - if you talk about your ex wife around other women - you will remain alone. 

Because where your ex is concerned you are an angry, bitter, blame shifting mess. 





Andy101 said:


> I was told to leave the house by the court. She has the right to be there because she is the main carer to the kids.
> The house cannot be sold unless she is in agreement. She is not. Therefore she has to raise funds to buy my share. This agreement is in place until the youngest child is 18 years old. I am basically screwed unless she finds the cash.
> 
> I am trying to move on. I have dated 8 women in three weeks. I am doing everything I physically can to find someone special. It's the only way out as far as I can see. I have another date tonight and it will continue. Tinder is a wonderful thing but it's also so frustrating.


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## Andy101

Well the latest trauma was that when I went to pick the kids up, she was snappy and irritated. I teied to be friendly and courteous but she gave me hell and I then found out that her new boyfriend doesn't want her being friendly and is frustrated that I am still around. He wants to meet me to put my mind at ease so he can see my ex during the week when the kids are there. I have no intention of meeting him. I see it as an excercise to gloat that he has her now and I need to walk away. Its an awful situation because we used to gt on ok. She says that by being nice she was giving me false hope that we would get back together. I now can only collect the kids from the front door and can't even go inside for a few minutes. I now feel that I am fighting her and her guy and that is not healthy for me. I am even contemplating walking away for a while as its affecting my health. I am going to a lawyer next week to see what my options are with the house. I need to cut all ties for everyones sakes.


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## C3156

Andy101 said:


> I was told to leave the house by the court. She has the right to be there because she is the main carer to the kids.
> The house cannot be sold unless she is in agreement. She is not. Therefore she has to raise funds to buy my share. This agreement is in place until the youngest child is 18 years old. I am basically screwed unless she finds the cash.


Was there a stipulation in the agreement as to a time limit on when she has to either buy you out or sell the home? Pretty crappy barrister that left you hanging with a multi-year financial obligation like that.



Andy101 said:


> I am trying to move on. I have dated 8 women in three weeks. I am doing everything I physically can to find someone special. It's the only way out as far as I can see. I have another date tonight and it will continue. Tinder is a wonderful thing but it's also so frustrating.


They say you should take at least a year for every 4-5 years of marriage to heal and figure out what happened in your marriage so you don't make the same mistakes again. Use the time for self reflection and being the best dad that you can. If you should find a partner now, you will most likely fall into a rebound relationship. Then you will spend all your time chasing after new woman instead of trying to work on yourself. 

I can tell you from experience, it makes the process of healing take a lot longer and will make future relationships tough. You need to work through the anger and resentment and be happy with yourself. Otherwise you will most likely fall into the same patterns again. Yes, it sucks to be at your place alone when the kids are not around. But it is a hell of a lot better than being in another crappy relationship.




Andy101 said:


> ...her new boyfriend doesn't want her being friendly and is frustrated that I am still around. He wants to meet me to put my mind at ease so he can see my ex during the week when the kids are there. I have no intention of meeting him. I see it as an excercise to gloat that he has her now and I need to walk away.


You are under no obligation to meet him. However, you still are the father to your children and have the right to be there for them, so he can just get over it.



Andy101 said:


> She says that by being nice she was giving me false hope that we would get back together. I now can only collect the kids from the front door and can't even go inside for a few minutes.


Look at this as an opportunity to not deal with your ex at all. She is correct and I can see it written all over your posts, you are still very much NOT over your ex. You need to disengage from her and focus on you and your kids. It is hard to get over a long term relationship, you can do this. I, and many others, have gone before you and gotten through the low points and emerged in a better place.



Andy101 said:


> I am even contemplating walking away for a while as its affecting my health. I am going to a lawyer next week to see what my options are with the house. I need to cut all ties for everyones sakes.


Try to treat your involvement with your ex as a business transaction. Keep your emotions out of it, finish the deal, and go about your day. No discussion except about the kids. But do not walk away from your kids. Your ex will use it against you. Someone has to the be the rational one for your kids sake, make sure it is you.

Talk with your lawyer and see if there is any grey area in your agreement you can use to change things.


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## 225985

Andy101 said:


> Well the latest trauma was that when I went to pick the kids up, she was snappy and irritated. I teied to be friendly and courteous but she gave me hell and I then found out that her new boyfriend doesn't want her being friendly and is frustrated that I am still around. He wants to meet me to put my mind at ease so he can see my ex during the week when the kids are there. I have no intention of meeting him. I see it as an excercise to gloat that he has her now and I need to walk away. Its an awful situation because we used to gt on ok. She says that by being nice she was giving me false hope that we would get back together. I now can only collect the kids from the front door and can't even go inside for a few minutes. I now feel that I am fighting her and her guy and that is not healthy for me. I am even contemplating walking away for a while as its affecting my health. I am going to a lawyer next week to see what my options are with the house. I need to cut all ties for everyones sakes.


Stop being friendly and courtesy. You go the house, pick up the kids. That's it. Don't engage in any conversion not directly related to the well-being of the kids.

You cannot believe a word she says. Now she is blaming the guy. What is the complaint that you are "still around"? Forget that. We don't care. You went to pick up YOUR kids. If she wants to drop them off at your house instead, do it.

If the stipulation in the agreement is that he cannot be at the house while the kids are there, that is GREAT. Keep it. Or use that as leverage to sell the house. She can have the guy at her new house when the kids are there, AFTER you get to sell the current house. Keep to the agreement. Didn't she have a fit when you were going to be late picking up the kids and she was threatening you because you were not following the agreement?

She was nice to you previously to control you and garner your attention. Now that she was attention for the other guy, she doesn't need your attention and you are seeing the true woman you once thought was great. 

You don't need to go into the house. Why would you want that? Stop it already. Do you even read what we post here?

You should not be fighting her and the other guy. You should detach from her and anything she says. If she is irritated, consider that a PLUS, not something to worry about. Most guys would love to have their cheating ex-wives irritated at them. 

See your lawyer first, then post back.


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## Ynot

Andy, I get it. You are hurt and want this pain to stop. First off you don't recover by dating other women. You recover by focusing on your self. You are desperately trying to find some one to replace her because you are still comparing yourself to her. She has someone new and you think you should have some one new. You aren't being fair to yourself or the women you are dating. It totally sucks, what you are going thru. But focus on your self as much as you possibly can. Explain to your ex that from this point forward when you pick up the kids, you do not want to chit chat, you do not want any interaction with her. She can watch for you. She can send the kids out when you arrive. The only communication between the two of you should be about some very pressing matter regarding the kids. Otherwise, do not look for or expect anything else from her. It doesn't matter where she goes or how long she is there. As long as your children are safe, that is all you should worry about.


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## Andy101

Well things have changed for me. I think I am over her. It's strange..As I continue to date women..I realise that not all women are like my ex and I find myself having feelings for these women..even if only temporarily...but it is slowly pushing her out. The weirdest thing is that i have confided in my ex about my dating..and she gives me advice..in turn she tells me about the new guy..who seems like an even bigger control freak than her...karma...she seems more relaxed and I don't really care anymore. The kids are happy and I see them regularly so at the moment things are ok. I just hope I don't crash from a bad rejection from another woman...I feel ready to date..I enjoy it and meet some great women along the way.

I am realising though..how dark my ex really is...she has met her match and I think I would be ready to see him at some point just to see what makes him tick. He could become a problem in the future fir the kids as he seems to have put my ex in her place..


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## Count Mack

you were married to my STBXW??


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## Andy101

What do you mean?


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Well the latest trauma was that when I went to pick the kids up, she was snappy and irritated. I teied to be friendly and courteous but she gave me hell and I then found out that her new boyfriend doesn't want her being friendly and is frustrated that I am still around. He wants to meet me to put my mind at ease so he can see my ex during the week when the kids are there. I have no intention of meeting him. I see it as an excercise to gloat that he has her now and I need to walk away. Its an awful situation because we used to gt on ok. She says that by being nice she was giving me false hope that we would get back together. *I now can only collect the kids from the front door and can't even go inside for a few minutes.* I now feel that I am fighting her and her guy and that is not healthy for me. I am even contemplating walking away for a while as its affecting my health. I am going to a lawyer next week to see what my options are with the house. I need to cut all ties for everyones sakes.


you need a hard 180 anyway. It's the only way you'll be able to live your own life


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## 225985

Stop talking to your ex about your dating. And stop taking her advice. Don't you know how pathetic that sounds. 

This would be ok if you worked in IT, but not for someone in our profession


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## Andy101

I know blue..it's just another way for her to control me...I've quit telling her anything..I just thought she was being friendly..

Think I'm doing ok though. Still miss my family life and having stability. Dating has highlighted how disfunctional it can be when you are single. Learning alot though about myself. Realising that maybe I 'm not so bad as a human being.


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## Andy101

Another low day for me. Realisation that my kids are with another man. I know it happens to thousands of people but it's hard to take. Feels like yesterday that we split up still. In a way I miss family life. It was better than this. Just wondering if I have been too nice to her and people in general. I seem to get burned very easily just by being kind.


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## Evinrude58

I know how you feel. You have got to work on rebuilding your life so you are happy again. When you're happy, it won't hurt so much.
My ex wife's new h is very wealthy although he's never worked. Gets to take my kids on all kinds of trips I could never afford. It happens.


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## Haiku

What I did was attend therapy weekly for about six months. I can't begin to explain what I got out of it. I learned so much about myself, the relationship, and about how to react to certain of her behaviors. Therapy helped me come away content, adjusted, and at peace. If I should enter another relationship I firmly believe it will be baggage free. It's important she doesn't pay for anyone's past sins. 

The best gift I can give to my future is to be emotionally healthy and over the last relationship.


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## happysnappy

Here is what I will say. My ex is engaged to this terrible hag. She is so mean to my sweet sensitive kids. They say nothing to dad about her being mean because they want him to be happy. My kids are 7 &8. They love their daddy. He's a loser. They love him just because he's their dad. This guy will never be able to replace you. No matter how much money he has or how nice he is. You're their dad and he can't be you. Be the best you can be and be there for them. I'm not implying you are a loser. Just using my ex as an example. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Openminded

Yes, there are people who view kindness as weakness and try to take advantage. That's just unfortunately life.


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## Andy101

Hi all.. 
Well I'm moving on as my thread states but with that, I'm starting to reflect and remember the good times before we actually got married. The feelings I had when we first met and the amazing time we had in Vegas and the road trip around the US...it was all so perfect. We were in love and looking back, it really hurts and I am trying to figure out what went wrong and when. 
Her relationship ended recently with the new guy..it appears he was a manipulating control freak and was making her shut me out. We seem to get on ok now but she has said that we will never date again but will always be good friends. For the kids sake if nothing more. 
I have been seeing a lady that lives an hour from me. She has a kind heart and is more on my level that my ex. My guard is firmly up though as I've been beaten enough for one life time. Not sure if there is any future in it but I'm having fun being on neutral ground with no expectations or judgement. I am just processing the past buy am much stronger than I was a year ago. I never thought I would say that!


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## GusPolinski

Why do you have to "always be good friends"?

Seriously, man -- cut this ***** out of your life to the absolute furthest degree possible. Discuss NOTHING that doesn't directly impact your children.


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## bkyln309

My ex and I arent friends. We are very civil and cooperative when it comes to the kids, but our personal business is personal.


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## Andy101

I'm realising now that informing my ex about my dating has been a bad idea. She now throws it in my face saying that I would rather be dating all these "hookers" than seeing the children! There was a situation where she wanted me to pick up our eldest daughter from a club. It wasn't my evening to be with them and I had a date with a woman I have been seeing for a while. I told the ex to deal with it as I had booked plans with this woman. She started saying that I wasn't interested in being a good father as I hardly see the children! I stick to our agreed times and I offer to take them out but get told to stick to routines...I cannot win and now I feel guilty because I don't drop everything if I get called upon to help with the kids. I thought we were getting along fine but as sion as I don't tow the line I get silent treatment and made to feel bad. She then goes to her family to play the hard done by victim and bad mouth me. She has since her last boyfriend, stopped dating so now tells me that I am immoral for seeing other women and that they are meaningless encounters. Basically minimising anything I do in my private life as if it were bad. Just want to have some kind of life of my own. Am I wrong here? Should I attend any request to do with the kids?


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## Satya

You need to read "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty."

https://www.amazon.com/When-Say-No-Feel-Guilty-ebook/dp/B004IK8Q22


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> I'm realising now that informing my ex about my dating has been a bad idea. She now throws it in my face saying that I would rather be dating all these "hookers" than seeing the children! There was a situation where she wanted me to pick up our eldest daughter from a club. It wasn't my evening to be with them and I had a date with a woman I have been seeing for a while. I told the ex to deal with it as I had booked plans with this woman. She started saying that I wasn't interested in being a good father as I hardly see the children! I stick to our agreed times and I offer to take them out but get told to stick to routines...I cannot win and now I feel guilty because I don't drop everything if I get called upon to help with the kids. I thought we were getting along fine but as sion as I don't tow the line I get silent treatment and made to feel bad. She then goes to her family to play the hard done by victim and bad mouth me. She has since her last boyfriend, stopped dating so now tells me that I am immoral for seeing other women and that they are meaningless encounters. Basically minimising anything I do in my private life as if it were bad. Just want to have some kind of life of my own. Am I wrong here? Should I attend any request to do with the kids?


Good god man. She went her way you go yours. That's how it works. You must love laying in the victim chair. You've never gotten out of it.

*Hard 180.* You talk too much and she's not your friend. 

She can filet you fifty different ways and no one cares but you should.

You really want a life then go out and get one. You've had more than enough good avice to know what to do. Lack of execution is on you.


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## Andy101

Hi all. It's been a while and I thought things would improve. My ex and I have tried being friends for the sake of the kids. It ended up with me helping with fixing the house and spending family time with her. She had a cancer scare a few months ago and I was supportive and took her to the hospital for scans etc. She appreciated my help. Recently, she told me she wanted some fun in her life. I told her that it would ruin our friendship but I found out that she is seeing someone now. This has really hit me hard as it always has done. It feels that I have basically been friendzoned to help her and a guy can just walk in and win her over! I admit I still have the hots for her but feel so resentful right now. I just can't get her out of my head. After everything that has happened, I need some fresh ideas and support to move on with my life.


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## Bananapeel

Ugh! My ex also asked me to be friends with her once and I just flat out told her no! I said I'd be happy to be civil and co-parent but that's it. Andy, you need to learn to stand up for yourself and not accept a crappy offer from her that is just going to make you miserable. Remember, her friend zoning you only worked because you accepted that offer instead of drawing a line and saying no. Try to think about why you agreed to friendship from her when you knew it wasn't something that would make you happy, and then use that experience to instill boundaries for yourself so it doesn't happen again.


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## sokillme

Andy101 said:


> Hi all. It's been a while and I thought things would improve. My ex and I have tried being friends for the sake of the kids. It ended up with me helping with fixing the house and spending family time with her. She had a cancer scare a few months ago and I was supportive and took her to the hospital for scans etc. She appreciated my help. Recently, she told me she wanted some fun in her life. I told her that it would ruin our friendship but I found out that she is seeing someone now. This has really hit me hard as it always has done. It feels that I have basically been friendzoned to help her and a guy can just walk in and win her over! I admit I still have the hots for her but feel so resentful right now. I just can't get her out of my head. After everything that has happened, I need some fresh ideas and support to move on with my life.


First of all your ex IS cancer. >

Second like the drug addict that occasionally takes the pill you are never going to recover it you continue to indulge in this kind of emotional magic thinking that you keep doing with her. She doesn't care about you accept as much as she can get from you. There are hundreds of thousands of women in the world and with today's communication you have access to them. Move on.


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## Lostinthought61

Andy when will you finally get it your being played.....when will your realize she keep manipulating you, has nothing we have told you before the after the divorce sunk in...how many time will you be at her beck and calling...GD Andy grow some balls. If a beautiful women on the outside can still be a ***** inside, what the hell...so you fix everything in the house only to have some come walk in behind you and have sex with her. Pick up the phone right now and tell her you are done being friends, she sucks as one.


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## Marc878

Ignore, ignore, ignore the X. The only one who can keep you wrapped up in this is you.


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## Andy101

I know what's being said and I appreciate the advice but it's not as simple as however crazy it sounds..I still have feelings for her and have to rely on her to look after the kids if I'm forced to work later or on the occasional day when we need to swap parenting days. I would rather I never had to see or communicate with her again but I have no choice and it beats me up when she is pleasant to me. 
In a way she is a cancer in my life and after everything I've done for her..I'm feeling pretty pissed!


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## Bananapeel

You just need to learn to operate like business partners with no more involvement other than is necessary to raise the kids. Then try to ignore/forget everything else because you are creating covert contracts with her and those always lead to disappointment.


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## bandit.45

joannacroc said:


> Can I gently ask why you slept with her...t.


Because he wanted to get laid. Just like she did. He didn’t exploit her anymore than she did him. 

Women always make it sound like a man is taking something from a woman when he has sex with her after a date....like she’s being shorted somehow. 

This lady most likely got a pleasant night out with a nice dinner, followed by an orgasm or two. And it didn’t cost her anything but her time.


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## farsidejunky

Andy101 said:


> I know what's being said and I appreciate the advice but it's not as simple as however crazy it sounds..I still have feelings for her and have to rely on her to look after the kids if I'm forced to work later or on the occasional day when we need to swap parenting days. I would rather I never had to see or communicate with her again but I have no choice and it beats me up when she is pleasant to me.
> In a way she is a cancer in my life and after everything I've done for her..I'm feeling pretty pissed!


A man who allows his feelings to lead him is a man whose only destination is misery.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## honcho

Andy101 said:


> I know what's being said and I appreciate the advice but it's not as simple as however crazy it sounds..I still have feelings for her and have to rely on her to look after the kids if I'm forced to work later or on the occasional day when we need to swap parenting days. I would rather I never had to see or communicate with her again but I have no choice and it beats me up when she is pleasant to me.
> In a way she is a cancer in my life and after everything I've done for her..I'm feeling pretty pissed!


Every guy who still has feeling for the ex always says "it's not that simple". It is simple you just don't want to cut the tie. Swapping parent days, working late happens to everyone. It's part of divorce life and these conversations can/should be short simple interactions and in the grand scheme of things how often does it really happen.


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## bethebetterman

I have been in the same situation for the last 3 years. The only thing I have found that works is to ignore her. When she does or says something unreasonable she is trying to push your buttons. You can't stop that or change it but you can decide how you react. Don't react and she will eventually take it out on OM instead. 

Focus on yourself. Be happy. Don't play her game or lower yourself to her level. The kids will see her negativity and her neediness and see that you are fair minded and happy. In the end all she is doing is damaging her relationship with the kids to sate her need to control you. 

Don't engage. Don't get angry. Hold your ground over arrangements for your kids. Let everything else go. 

Good luck.


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## Ynot

Andy - follow your own advice. I have seen you tell dozens of guys (and women) really good advice. Follow it your self.
I fail at this myself sometimes. It is hard, but step back from inside of your head and look at it from the outside.


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## SentHereForAReason

Andy101 said:


> I know what's being said and I appreciate the advice but it's not as simple as however crazy it sounds..I still have feelings for her and have to rely on her to look after the kids if I'm forced to work later or on the occasional day when we need to swap parenting days. I would rather I never had to see or communicate with her again but I have no choice and it beats me up when she is pleasant to me.
> In a way she is a cancer in my life and after everything I've done for her..I'm feeling pretty pissed!


Andy, just from a talking out loud standpoint. Is there any way that you foresee yourself not having to be forced to work later or is there a way that you can build into your schedule the days you work later are the days that you you don't have your kids?

If it were me, I would try focusing on that. Right now, we have our parenting schedule figured out and thankfully both kids are school age, so most of the dropoffs and pickups will occur at either school or somewhere else other than our own houses. We are a few months out from the divorce being final but STBXW will be out in her new house within a month is my hope. I am actually being quite nice. I was fighting for the marriage for 6 months after I found out about affair, then went in and out of 180, never mean but more business like. Now as we work out splitting assets and the house stuff, I am being nicer than I thought I would but that's for my own peace to be who I am! But as soon as she is out that door, it's over, will be time to focus on forgetting that she exists because in a way, the person that I married is dead to be honest. What I have is this new person or the bad half that always existed that took over completely, the good half of her being.

You need distractions my man, things to do. What are your weaknesses, what don't you like about yourself? Work as hard as hell to fix those things and make it the best you could ever imagine but never flaunt it or make it known to her. Kick a$$ and dominate with your actions, not with your mouth. It will speak for itself. 

Things that I am doing to help me with distraction and my drive;
- changed my workout to focus more on getting big and building muscle mass instead of staying lean
- looking at new furniture sets and stuff to decorate the house with when she jets outta here
- looking at vacation ideas for the next few years with the kids
- thinking of new traditions to start
- thinking of new business ventures on the side
- and finally but not nearly as important and down the road past the divorce and once I know the kids are in a better, place, getting back out into the dating world. I'm in no rush for that, as I won't even think about it until the divorce is final and my kids are priority #1 but by the time that it happens, I should have reached the goals I talked about above this line and that should help with confidence, happiness and just about everything else

If there are things that she told you, that you know aren't true but hurt or even if they are true. Prove them wrong, not to their face, prove it to yourself. My STBXW said so many hurtful things to justify her actions and her own guilt over the past year. It hurt for so long but now I'm starting to approach the plateau of it hurting me to creating a raging inferno inside me to push me back to the man I was not too long ago where I wanted to go out and dominate the world.


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## Andy1001

Only communicate by email. Do not get into any conversation with her,the longer you keep meeting her the harder it will be to move on.


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## Robbie1234

Andy1001 said:


> Only communicate by email. Do not get into any conversation with her,the longer you keep meeting her the harder it will be to move on.


I was getting confused reading this post and then I realised that there is an Andy 101 and an Andy1001. 
One of you is going to have to change your name.


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## Andy101

Well I'm starting to understand that I am the problem here. I had to drop the kids off at 6am to get to work and she answered the door with make up running on her face and that glow from a night of passion. I later messaged her to tell her that there was no point denying what she was doing and that all I ask is that she keeps the children out of it. I told her that I'm not interested in the details. I then blocked her on whatsapp. She emailed me to tell me there wasn't anyone and if there ever was, it's none of my business. She asked why I blocked her and how we were meant to communicate about the kids or make changes to arrangements. I just can't deal with her lies anymore. I worry that this guy will influence her and she will confide in him leaving me out of the loop. I see him as a threat to the stability that we have had for the last year.
Am I being childish for blocking her? I just need some piece of mind from her constant manipulation and lies. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel right now or what to do for the best. I have my own life and great career and I concentrate on making good memories for the kids but why would she deny this guy exists? She has never denied this kind of thing in the past. 

I need to get her out of my head and move on somehow. I can try no contact but have to see her at pick up times. We have to conmunicate but My feelings for her come flooding back. I don't know...maybe this fling has pushed me over the edge. It feels like I've just split up with her all over again. I'm thinking of finding a therapist but don't know what type I need. If I could have my memory of her wiped I would. I feel trapped and although I know what you guys are saying is correct, she has me under some kind of spell. It's not healthy and I just want out.


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## DjDjani

Well, it's simple. Find somebody to pick up and take back your kids from her and never see or talk with her again. If she has something to say, she can say it to that person and that person will give you a message. And that is it. You just need to want that to happen.


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## Marc878

Andy101 said:


> Well I'm starting to understand that I am the problem here.
> 
> At this time you are the whole problem. Same **** over and over
> 
> I had to drop the kids off at 6am to get to work and she answered the door with make up running on her face and that glow from a night of passion. I later messaged her to tell her that there was no point denying what she was doing and that all I ask is that she keeps the children out of it.
> 
> More needless contact over something that is none of your business and totally out of your control but you do it over and over
> 
> I told her that I'm not interested in the details. I then blocked her on whatsapp. She emailed me to tell me there wasn't anyone and if there ever was, it's none of my business.
> 
> She's right it's none of your business now but you just go back for more
> 
> She asked why I blocked her and how we were meant to communicate about the kids or make changes to arrangements. I just can't deal with her lies anymore. I worry that this guy will influence her and she will confide in him leaving me out of the loop. I see him as a threat to the stability that we have had for the last year.
> 
> It's none of your business but you are a drama queen. This is what you've made your life into
> 
> Am I being childish for blocking her? I just need some piece of mind from her constant manipulation and lies. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel right now or what to do for the best. I have my own life and great career and I concentrate on making good memories for the kids but why would she deny this guy exists? She has never denied this kind of thing in the past.
> 
> You are very childish. You want to keep yourself in this and are doing a great job at it
> 
> I need to get her out of my head and move on somehow. I can try no contact but have to see her at pick up times. We have to conmunicate but My feelings for her come flooding back. I don't know...maybe this fling has pushed me over the edge. It feels like I've just split up with her all over again. I'm thinking of finding a therapist but don't know what type I need. If I could have my memory of her wiped I would. I feel trapped and although I know what you guys are saying is correct, she has me under some kind of spell. It's not healthy and I just want out.


No one can help you. You can't even help yourself. 

You have yourself to blame and are keeping yourself trapped. You never listen or apply anything.

This is all on you. You've put yourself in this position and are keeping yourself there.

You are the ultimate whinner.


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## oldshirt

I have a very simple answer to all your dilemmas and woes. 

Are you read for it??


Drumroll please ..........


Here it comes............



*GET A BABYSITTER*


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## Andy101

Yeah I get it. I strangley appreciate your harsh words.
I've started to see her for what she is. I thought it was one guy she was screwing. Turns out she's doing multiple guys on Tinder. She is a different person now and the mask is finally off. I'm not putting up with her poison anymore. I can't do much about the house but can now start to get my own life in order. I acrually feel ditached from her for once in my life. It's taken a week of real soul searching to realise that I could never trust her again and don't even like her much. I'm sure she's mentally not right. The kids are thankfully not involved in her lifestyle so she can do what she likes. Her future is bleak and I won't be around to see it.
I've collected the girls from her a couple of times and have decided to be civil and speak briefly about the girls movements and then say good bye. No more chit chat or invitations to do any family stuff as there clearly isn't one. 
It's a relief and will take time to be totally indifferent but I think I can do this now.


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