# Searching for things to make me better



## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Hello to all,

I thank you in advance because this is a little long.

I come here in order to seek some advice from both men and women in respect to infidelity and to the way I view women in general.

A little about myself: A guy in his mid forties, come from a broken home, raised by his mom during the teen years, world traveller, independant, self employed and self made, highly respected in his field, considered attractive, been diagnosed with bi-polarity, ADD, dislexic, been in a non-stop string of relationships from the age of 18 to 45, currently single, sometimes angry at women, fit, a good and attentive lover and nature has provided me a physical characteristic which some women do seem to enjoy.

I've experienced infidelity in all possible ways: my mom left my dad to pursue an EA which amounted to nothing (which resulted in the permanent breakup of my parents), my mom's mom cheated on my grandfather, my sister cheated on her husband (now divorced). These have been the 3 most important women in my life other than girlfriends. I've cheated twice in a very temporary way (a one night stand while my girlfriend at the time was travelling for 3 months in Europe, and a fling which lasted a few months while seperated from a gf due to school).

And I've been cheated on, a lot… a whole lot.

I've always been popular with women, this could explain the number of relationships I've had.

I've had a total of 10 realtionships which I considered to be meaningfull. Of the ten, 6 have long term and the rest short term obviously. Of the ten, only 1 was not affected by infidelity, as far as I know. Of the ten, 7 ended due to my exs cheating on me as well as 4 of the 6 long term relationships.

Also, I've actually experienced relationships with 2 girls who have demonstrated to be nymphomaniacs… and no, it is not fun. People do not realise that nymphomania is a severe disorder. It has nothing to do with enjoying sex, but rather a deep desire to bed as many men as possible. A comparison would be to invite a severe alcoholic to taste the best Burgundy wines. IT means nothing to them. And beleive me, they were far from good in bed. In both cases, the women had been raped as young girls.

Needless to say, infidelity has my number.

What's interesting is that in most of these cases, there were definite red flags. These came in various forms. For example: jumping into bed with guys extremely quickly, partaking in daily phone and email communication with an ex, dropping a boyfriend like a hot potatoe for me, a promiscuis past, having dozens of email accounts and being addicted to social media sites which cattered to sex. I always overlooked these saying "things will be different with me"…. but no.

What amazes me is to what extent women lie when suspicion raise its ugly head. Almost as if to be a woman is being part of an entire lying lifestyle. You shake a tiny bit, nothing comes down. You shake a bit harder then one fruit falls. You shake a little harder and more fall... etc

I've grown tired of all this and have vowed celibacy for at least a year following my latest breakup, which happened a year ago. I've also decided to completelly deidcate myself to my career.

My life experience has also demonstrated that as a man, I've not been shown how to "man-up"… this is something which mostly self taught and I am making progress.

I'm now obessed with the subject of gf/wives cheating… I spend countless hours reading articles and "cries for help" on sites such as this one. I'm also flabbergasted to see how us men have become real doormats. Furthermore, when I see women, I now see them as highly probable cheaters as well as professional liers. When a friend catches his gf/w in a lie, I will say "of course she lied, she's a woman." But I do not want this as I know far to well that we are only human, that we make mistakes, that men also lie and cheat, and that there are great loving women out there. I've grown to have little respect for women in general and am tired of that. Tired of seeing them as entitled, brainless and irresponsible. It didn't start like this… but today…

My questions are the following: Do you see a co-dependancy pattern here. Ie: I attract women who will easily cheat and vice versa?

Also,

Does anyone know of certain tools/books/sites which could help me about this? Especially about not seeing women as cheaters and professional liers?


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## jen1020 (Dec 18, 2011)

Hi

My suggestion is that as soon as you see those red flags, such as women being way too emotionally dependent, clingy or still contact ex's then stop dating these girls.

An emotionally healthy woman who is more likely to treat you well will not engage in these behaviours.

I think your idea of backing off relationships for a long while is a good idea. It will give you time to clear your head.

Try to focus on something else for a while and just forget about women for now. When in a year or so you do meet someone who gives off the right signals, take it very slowly. Don't jump in to bed with them or get attached quickly.

Not all women are as you describe them, trust me 

Jen

Oh and PS, the only thing that can make you feel better is you, so look inside and start there.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

If a problem comes up in our life and we do not deal with it we sub-consciously become attracted to that thing which is a problem in our life. So by not dealing with the fact that you have so many women in your family who are cheaters you began attracting those types of women. It is a natural course of life for the problem to continue to recur until we have overcome it. 

You have not dealt with it. That women like this continue to show up in your life is only a symptom of the real problem. And until you do the work to overcome it you will still attract those types of women. Believe me when I say that many many many women are not like this. But until you do the work on yourself you wont have the pleasure of living a life with an honest woman. 

I wish you the best.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

You weren't cared for early in life. So deep inside you don't want to care for yourself, as this will be to fill a void that was there before, and for so long, and facing the reality of that void is going to break your heart, you will have so much empathy for your younger self.

You subconsciously seek out women who can replace those in your past, to affirm the message that you are not worth caregiving, that nobody is going to be looking out for your feelings, that life is supposed to be one of suffering. You are attached to suffering, because it is attached to your grasp on reality.

It's a good step to see the pattern...and to ask for someone else's viewpoint. 

Your view of reality can be easily dismissed by knowing even of one women who is faithful. In fact, there are many women in the world who are faithful and don't cheat and lie. I am one of them. It's not that I strive to be faithful, it's just that when push comes to shove, I can't be anything but. It is my true nature. I'm Quaker, but I'm Quaker because of who I am, I'm not who I am because of any religion.

I'm sure there are others on this forum, who are also faithful not because they want to be, or go to great lengths to avoid cheating and lying, but because that is honestly the way they are.

You have to let go of your past, and enter into an entirely different present. Focus on the present...right now there is no women who is cheating on you and lying to you. Now you own that reality. So moving forward in time and space, instead of seeking a women who is truthtelling and faithful...reject instead any associations with females who challenge the present feeling you have of being honored. You do not have to take people at face value, when they lie, and believe them until you can prove they are lying. All that matters is your emotional truth. If someone doesn't feel right, keep them outside your safe boundary that you created for the reality that you want. Continue to do this as you move through time. Then you will have what you want, sooner or later you will realize that there is a woman who has been around a long time in your safe space. That's the one for you.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

One of life's very hard truths is that the only real constant in your relationships is _you_. 

I've been out with guys who threw up red flags early on. I stopped seeing them. You, however, tolerate the behaviors hoping for a magical "different this time" scenario that never materializes. Yes, you are attacting women who cheat. You are also ignoring obvious red flags and tolerating dodgy behavior. You need to figure out why you keep doing that. 

BTW, though you glossed over it pretty quickly, you also mentioned that you have sometimes been the cheater, not just the innocent who is cheated on. Perhaps some of your cheating exes thought of their cheating as being "in a very temporary way", and thus not all that big a deal, as well? I'm not sure you have a great claim to any real moral high ground over all the women in the world - since there are, in fact, some of us who don't cheat.


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## Baffled01 (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting post. I too have been in alot of relationships where my wife/GF has cheated on me and been, it seems, a very gifted liar. Experts say men cheat more than women, but as I have been reading and participating in this forum I find there are more men being hurt by women cheating, than vice-versa. I wonder if we are seeing a cultural change here.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Thank you for all the great comments and answers!


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

jen1020 said:


> Hi
> 
> My suggestion is that as soon as you see those red flags, such as women being way too emotionally dependent, clingy or still contact ex's then stop dating these girls.
> 
> ...


Thank you Jen. Indeed, I've become an expert redflag reader. My year of celibacy as done the greatest of goods... So much so that I've decided to extend it by a further 6 months. Not only has allowed me to focus more on my career but also to become a better man. But I am starting to miss the softness of women tho.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Love Song said:


> If a problem comes up in our life and we do not deal with it we sub-consciously become attracted to that thing which is a problem in our life. So by not dealing with the fact that you have so many women in your family who are cheaters you began attracting those types of women. It is a natural course of life for the problem to continue to recur until we have overcome it.
> 
> You have not dealt with it. That women like this continue to show up in your life is only a symptom of the real problem. And until you do the work to overcome it you will still attract those types of women. Believe me when I say that many many many women are not like this. But until you do the work on yourself you wont have the pleasure of living a life with an honest woman.
> 
> I wish you the best.


Thank you LoveSong. 
You are absolutely correct.... And trust me, I do know that most women are sincere and real. I just need to work on myself in order to stop FEELING they're all liars and cheaters. And I do have to precise, I only feel this way with women I am attracted to... You see the corrolation? How and what can I do to come out on the other side... Any books out there? Websites? That you know about...


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> You weren't cared for early in life. So deep inside you don't want to care for yourself, as this will be to fill a void that was there before, and for so long, and facing the reality of that void is going to break your heart, you will have so much empathy for your younger self.
> 
> You subconsciously seek out women who can replace those in your past, to affirm the message that you are not worth caregiving, that nobody is going to be looking out for your feelings, that life is supposed to be one of suffering. You are attached to suffering, because it is attached to your grasp on reality.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the wise words Homemaker. Yes, I'm starting to see thing more clearly about my past. One thing which has often been on my mind is that my grandmother manipulated everyone in the family... and my mother had this very polarised love-hate realtionship with her.

Anyways, I have to move on. Thanx again.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Rowan said:


> One of life's very hard truths is that the only real constant in your relationships is _you_.
> 
> I've been out with guys who threw up red flags early on. I stopped seeing them. You, however, tolerate the behaviors hoping for a magical "different this time" scenario that never materializes. Yes, you are attacting women who cheat. You are also ignoring obvious red flags and tolerating dodgy behavior. You need to figure out why you keep doing that.
> 
> BTW, though you glossed over it pretty quickly, you also mentioned that you have sometimes been the cheater, not just the innocent who is cheated on. Perhaps some of your cheating exes thought of their cheating as being "in a very temporary way", and thus not all that big a deal, as well? I'm not sure you have a great claim to any real moral high ground over all the women in the world - since there are, in fact, some of us who don't cheat.


Hello Rowan and thank you for your comment.

In respect to me having very short infidelities, you are correct. I have to say that in my 4 long term relationships, I was deceived not 4 but 8 times. When it came to mistakes such a one time thing (such as a one night stand), I always forgave the infidelity and tried to adress the issue.

My infidelities happened while very young (in my early 20s). These experiences taught me that cheating was not the answer and that I needed to face the situation in a more constructive way.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Baffled01 said:


> Interesting post. I too have been in alot of relationships where my wife/GF has cheated on me and been, it seems, a very gifted liar. Experts say men cheat more than women, but as I have been reading and participating in this forum I find there are more men being hurt by women cheating, than vice-versa. I wonder if we are seeing a cultural change here.


Hello Baffled,

And your comment is also interesting. My 2 cents on that is women do lie more than man because keeping social harmony is part of their social role. Which means that they won't want to rock the boat. Men, because their social role demandes that they built things and acquire things, need to know the truth and thus hold the truth to a higher standard. Think about if we need to built a house... it is imperative to know the soil conditions... as an example. I've recently read an article concerning a study done in the UK. It looked at the incidence of lying and catching a liar in respect to both men and women. The results indicated that yes, women not only lied more often but also felt less guilty about it. It also demonstrated that men were much better at spotting lies than women.

I lived a funny experience recently. During a social outing at a regular hangout, I noticed a group of women (some friends of mine) giggling away all night. Near the end of the evening, I asked one of them what they were talking about. Her answer: we just gossip, it's our favourite passtime... "about what?" i asked. She said about men and women. "And what happens when you run out of gossips?" I asked. Her reply stunned me: "we just make up new ones". I later found out that according this group of women, I was a "professional womanizer, drug dealer as well as a stalker"... LOL!

In respect to the cheating trend, I simply think that both sexes cheat at about the same rate today. But women are more open to talk about their relationships and feelings to other women in order to get advice. Men, we tend to close up and are usually terrified of being perceived as a weak man who is a cuckold by his peers. This would explain the higher percentage of men on this forum. Just my opinion.


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## muttgirl (Mar 23, 2012)

It doesnt sound like you know what a good woman in a relationship would be like and the actions you would need to take to maintain that type of relationship. All that cheating makes for a LOT of drama and chaos and if a quiet calm way of life isnt familiar, chaos will keep you excited, busy, and interested. Calling women names will not help you build a connection and will distance you from anyone you are trying to work with. I would suggest some therapy or finding a group setting for singles (men especially) to understand healthy relationships or discuss why cheating happens. Good luck and try to understand that your family members are people and people learn and grow and try to improve as we get older.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

muttgirl said:


> It doesnt sound like you know what a good woman in a relationship would be like and the actions you would need to take to maintain that type of relationship. All that cheating makes for a LOT of drama and chaos and if a quiet calm way of life isnt familiar, chaos will keep you excited, busy, and interested. Calling women names will not help you build a connection and will distance you from anyone you are trying to work with. I would suggest some therapy or finding a group setting for singles (men especially) to understand healthy relationships or discuss why cheating happens. Good luck and try to understand that your family members are people and people learn and grow and try to improve as we get older.


indeed Muttgirl. You make some really good points. I've always been careful about name-calling when addressing people in general. Having said that I do see what you mean and this precisely why i'm here. I do understand that we'll only humans. People make mistakes, go through hardships, change, etc.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ilgitano,

Interesting that you pick a name that means "the gypsy"... a group of people who are stereo typed as being liars, con artists and thieves. From personal experience some can be very good pick pockets.

As a woman who have been lied to endlessly and cheated on by every man I've had a serious relationship with I'd say that some people are liars and cheaters and some are not. It's not gender specific.

Stats show that about 20% of all husbands cheat and about 18% of all wives cheat. That's close enough that the difference does not matter.

One thing I have learned about myself is that I have not had good boundaries. Like you I made excuses when I saw those red flags. I am learning to draw some very hard boundaries. If I see a red flag I know I need to run as fast as I can in the other direction.

Generally we find the kind of person we expect to find. If you think that all women are liars and cheaters, then you will find liars and cheaters. Why because we accept those types into our lives and anyone who is not a liar/cheater will not want to be around a person who will accept that crap in their lives. It's a very hard lesson to learn.

Also, by your own admission you also have the capasity to lie and cheat... you have done it before you are very capable of doing it again. So.. I kinda find it funny that you are complaining about women who did exactly what you did.. lied and cheated.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> ilgitano,
> 
> Interesting that you pick a name that means "the gypsy"... a group of people who are stereo typed as being liars, con artists and thieves. From personal experience some can be very good pick pockets.
> 
> ...


Glad to see that you are aware that there is a stereotype about gypsies. So i'm a gypsy. My line of work demands that I travel a lot. I have no excuses to make about what is a gypsy in reality: a person who is always on the go.

I just come here for some advice. Period. I do know that cheaters and liars know no gender. But due to my past, both in terms of family and romantic CHOICES, I have developed an unhealthy perception of the other sex. It is what it is... A perception.

As for the rest of your comment, i'm glad I could make you kinda laugh as you "kinda find it funny"in respect to what I did. You have no idea what I went through as a child, teen and young adult... no clue. So laugh at me if you wish. It is your right and I did expect to have stones thrown at me here as this forum is full of angry and bitter people in search of proxies. Thankfully, there are others who look beyond themselves and do have some compassion. Oh, and by the way, I did cheat but I did not lie.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ilgitano said:


> Glad to see that you are aware that there is a stereotype about gypsies. So i'm a gypsy. My line of work demands that I travel a lot. I have no excuses to make about what is a gypsy in reality: a person who is always on the go.


I grew up living in several countries. One of them was Italy. When we lived in Naples there was a group of gypsies who would camp out in a field near our apartment building. We hung out with some of the kids in the camp. Your name made me think of them.  Fun times.


ilgitano said:


> I just come here for some advice. Period. I do know that cheaters and liars know no gender. But due to my past, both in terms of family and romantic CHOICES, I have developed an unhealthy perception of the other sex. It is what it is... A perception.


On the one hand you talk about it as a perception and on the other hand in your posts you seem to take it a lot further than a perception. It seems like a lot more than a perception from the way you talk about it. It does take some time and effort to separate a strong perception from what is real.

For example you go on quite a bit trying to prove that women are just liars by nature. For example your post about how woman are liars because of what you see as their place in society but men do not lie as much because men build things. Until you stop that sort of rationalization of your view of women you will see women through the distorted lens of your perception.

I used to have a very strong perception that all men were like the men I was in long term relationships with … until I stopped and looked at people I know in good relationships. I dropped that perception a long time ago realizing that I was the problem because I did not have good boundaries and hence allowed lying, cheating men around me.




ilgitano said:


> As for the rest of your comment, i'm glad I could make you kinda laugh as you "kinda find it funny"in respect to what I did. You have no idea what I went through as a child, teen and young adult... no clue. So laugh at me if you wish. It is your right and I did expect to have stones thrown at me here as this forum is full of angry and bitter people in search of proxies. Thankfully, there are others who look beyond themselves and do have some compassion. Oh, and by the way, I did cheat but I did not lie.


You are being very touchy. I’m not stone throwing any more than you are stone throwing at all women because of the behavior of the few who have cheated on you. You were as wrong as they were for cheating. Thus, taking your own ‘perception’ all men must be lying cheats as well. I’m only trying to point out your own hypocrisy.

You are the one who came here with a perception of all women being liars and cheaters… thus displaying a large dose of anger and bitterness on your part. 

The hardships you might have suffered as a child, teen and young adult do not excuse lying and adultery. If hardship was an excuse for such behavior most of us would have an excuse for all kinds of bad behavior.

I am not attacking you… I am trying to challenge you to look into yourself to find the source of your ‘perception’ and your own hypocrisies. If you only want people to tell you what you want to hear, then please post what you want to hear and read it over and over. If you want insight and to be challenged then give some credit to even those replies that go beyond what you want to hear.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I grew up living in several countries. One of them was Italy. When we lived in Naples there was a group of gypsies who would camp out in a field near our apartment building. We hung out with some of the kids in the camp. Your name made me think of them.  Fun times.
> 
> On the one hand you talk about it as a perception and on the other hand in your posts you seem to take it a lot further than a perception. It seems like a lot more than a perception from the way you talk about it. It does take some time and effort to separate a strong perception from what is real.
> 
> ...


I've read this and thank you.


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