# Need advice



## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Nothing like asking a bunch of strangers for advice.

A little back ground.
I'm Male 38
my wife it 35, Married in 1998, we had meet in the Air Force and got married about year later. By 1999 we were both civilians. 

We also have a 6 year old girl

Started about 2 months ago, things had gotten very weird between us, I recognize that I was being passive aggressive towards here and she reciprocated. We never fought persey, but things were tense. Finally one night I sat her down, and got her to tell me she had been thinking about divorce. Doing budget and bidding her time till she finished her masters degree this fall. 

Besides being passive aggressive towards her, some of the things I agreed to work on was basically not being such a tite wad. We make much more than the average family, have new cars, a 2 year old house, just put in a $40k pool. No debt except the mortgage, almost living the Dave Ramsey lifestyle. But I've always made excuses not to take her to Paris or on nice vacations. Besides family trips back to Florida to visit the inlaws, I've taken her on one cruise in our 12 years. 

Since then, I've moved some money around and commited to be more of a free will when it comes to living. I've also focused on being a better helper around the house, not that I don't do my fair share of man work, but stuff like putting my dirty clothes on the hamper when I take them off, closing cabinets and drawers. My daughter does the same thing and drives me he nuts. My brother who is a Psych major, suggest she may have some what of a compulsive disorder. For what it's worth, that is one thing I like about her, our house is very well kept and she is very creative. 

Now a week ago she went to Cabo San Lucas with a girl friend of hers (planned 3-4 months ago), she has been divorced about 3 years. She's a family friend, and from what the wife tells me is, the friend is against us breaking up. Any way, it must have been the last night she was there, she (wife) ended up kissing another guy. 

When she returned home, she became very stand offish towards me. It took a couple days, but I sat her down and she admitted the kiss and that she also about 3-4 months ago had dinner with an old boy friend while on a business trip (nothing happened supposedly). We've been very open an frank about everything, maybe I'm a sucker, but I don't think sex has been involved. 

She is ready to move out to try to figure out to do, but to this point, she doesn't want to commit actually doing the divorce paper work. This is what she said in an email



> I will always have you and L***** in my mind with all that I do and I don't plan on being some dumb single chick, but I do want to make sure that if I am going to spend the rest of my life with someone, it will be what I WANT, not what is convenient or acceptable. I refuse to live my life like that.


So at this point, she has an apartment lined up, but can't move in till Aug 1st. I ordered the Marriage Fitness Duo package this morning, she has agreed to work thru it with me. I hope 30 days is enough time for he to start seeing the light. 

Mean while, I'm trying to give her room and not annoy her. Going to start doing some of the other things people do on the Lone Ranger track, like leaving love notes in her purse and complementing her a few times a day. 

What do you guys think?



-BadKarma


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

it sounds to me like she found someone else. 

If you were being passive aggressive with her it also sounds like you have some issues that you need to talk to her about. my H gets passive aggressive with me and i have to stop him and ask him whats going on. he usually doesnt realize something is bothering him and doesnt realize that's his way of telling me.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Blanca, I think you were not far off. 

Yesterday we had a pretty good day, I'm being Mr NIce guy and she actually started flirting with me by the after noon. Had I not broke out with 102 fever, we might have even gone mid night skinny dipping. 

Alas, she decided to inform her parents of her decision to move out and that blew up, when she came home she really broke down and I has to console her while fight off the shakes from my fever. 

I asked her in her moment of weekness if there was anyone else, just tell me because it will eventually come out. She tells me there is no one, and brings up the point of when does she have time? I believe her because of her activities would not suggest an ongoing affair.

BUT, lets revist the old boy friend topic, the one she had dinner with a few months ago. She went into more details about that, seems like after 12 years she has some feelings for him still. But on multiple times he has made it clear that he does not feel the same way. 

She made the deposit at the appartment yesterday, so have till Aug 1st to turn this stuff around. Hopefully this marriage fitness program arrives and we can start working through our issues in a systimatic fassion.

And about me being passive/agressive. Your right, that's my issue, I'm P/A at my job too sometimes. Talking with her dad this morning, he said that most of her old boyfirends (including the one above) were more the opposite, like agressisve/agressive. He used the term abusive, but I think mentally and not physically. For that matter, I think her father would be in the same catagory. Just as a test, I would consider the abusive approach and tell her to get the **** out if not for my 6year daughter. But for now, the Mr. Niceguy approach seems to be bringing results. 

Thats about all for today, she's out shopping with her mom and sister, hopefully she finds the love note I put in her wallet, she found the one yesterday and I think she was touched. 

Keep the advice coming.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Am I in that bad of a perdiciment? No advice?

She's been really hard to read? We've already started some of Morts advice. Doing the Touch Charge and Talk Charge. The Talk Charge is very hard. Maybe that's why we are where we are today.

Even though I'm still sick as a dog, ended up in the ER yesterday morning with 104 fever, I asked her last night if she wanted to make love after I got over the bug and she actually said yes, and that it would be good to do it again. And it didn't sound like from the enflection in her voice she was agreeing just to satisfy me, she genuinly wants it.

Like I said, she went shopping last time I wrote, turns out she bought a couch and love seat for the apartment. She goes on to say how well they will match when she moves back in. She also talks about "taking me back to her place" after she moves out. To me, this sound promissing. 

But on the flip side, she's not opposed to us dating other people while seperated. That thought turns my stomach. What if she has sex with another guy while seperated, how do you deal with that?

I guess that's enough obsessing for now. Feels good just to write it down sometimes.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

It is not unusual for a spouse considering divorce or separation to vacillate back and forth. That is a positive for you. In reading between the line of your post you are almost treating your approach to this as a roll in a play. What ever the marriage needs in change you must commit to for life or this will come back around and you will have validated her wants to leave. To go through the marriage program together and see where that leads you. A couple of reads that might help are Chapman’s The Five Languages (For you both) and Love and Dobson’s Love Must be Tough (For you).


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

I am so sorry you are going thru this. I have no idea what your wife wants. Heck, i think you are a great husband. Do you want to be mine....lol So have you found out what it is she is unhappy about, with the marriage, with you? SOmething you can change maybe?

i dont have any suggestions thou, because it sounds like she is really going to move out on Aug 1, getting furniture and stuff. I wish i could tell you something positive. All i can say is keep it up, good luck and hope you feel better.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

If there's a chance she will have sex with someone else...do NOT take her to bed!! She must be tested before you do! I suspect, however that she won't. 

I like the idea of her taking you to her place! Sounds like a sure date!  

Once she's been on her own for a little while, (and given that the couch "matches") she may well want back. 

Just go with the flow for a while...


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

I've already told her if she has sex with someone else, I need a full work up from her doc saying she's clean. 

Funny thing is, I don't think we used the D word all weekend. Maybe she doens't want to say words to not upset me, or does she really think it will end with us back together. 

I was thinking about trying to watch Fireproof with her tonight, we watching DVDs together is one of our favorite past times, but will the message of Fireproof seem to cheesey/needy/pushy?


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

You know her the best as to whether or not she'd like to see it with you.

I haven't seen it but from what I've heard it's supposed to be good. The guy realizes he's made mistakes and tries to correct them.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Well the MF package just showed up and I started reading the 1st part of the workbook and was shocked and scared but hopefully he has a plan. 

Basically he says if I want my spouse to change, then I have to relinquish the position that I want them to take. Obviously I want my DW to stay here, but what MF says, my supporting her appratment hunting and preperation may actually be the right thing to do.

We'll see, update you tommorrow.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

BadKarma said:


> Basically he says if I want my spouse to change, then I have to relinquish the position that I want them to take. Obviously I want my DW to stay here, but what MF says, my supporting her appratment hunting and preperation may actually be the right thing to do.


This is also part of Dobson's Love Must be Touch theory. It is reverse of what your instincts tell you to do but it can work. Good luck.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Wll last night was productive, we listened to the 1st CD and did the 1st exercise in the program. I think we've uncovered two very profound things. 

1st about trust. Trust is being consistant in the things you do, showing up on time or doing the things you say you are going to do. That was one of my big problems, I would say I would pickup my dirty cloths in the bathroom but wouldn't, I would say I wouldn't leave dirty dished in my office, but I would. Over the years, I never saw it as trust think, I thought , its my space too I can do what I want. Looking back, if you want to make the worst possible comparison, I might as well been cheating on her everytime I left a dish out.

2nd, we found an interseting pattern in her old loves. Starting in high school her frist two loves we both very controlling in her independance. I'm not a phycologist, but I think this has a deep rooted reason in why she wants to move out. 

I had another thought laying in bed this morning, two of her last loves, she exerted her independance, once by joing the Air Force, effectivly ending the relation ship. The second, involves the old boyfriend I've mentioned earlier. They were alway off again on again. SHe again exerted her independance and signed up for and overseas tour, which is where we met and and the rest is history. 

So 2 jerk boyfriends, and 2 she exerted her indepenace on, all gone down in flames. 

Anyway we learned a lot last night, should be interesting the next 30 days what else we learn.

BK


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

One other trust issue, again its all about being consistant. My trust issue with my W her inconsistant attitude and behaviour towards our D. Sometime very loving, sometimes way to angry towards D about little things. 

For anyone who has done the program already, do we fully go down the trust avenue later?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Without trust, which is basic in a relationship....

whats the point?


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

I guess the point is we didn't realize we had trust issues. 

I'm willing to slowly rebuild the trust, she does not seem open to it. I suppose a big part of the last 30 days should be my trust rebuilding.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

12 years of P/A behavior can totally erode trust and faith in one's spouse; she may need a lot of time to even consider giving you another chance, b/c you've had so many, from her point of view. The good news is, she has NOT said, "I'm done." If she does, then you would be in a much more difficult position. Right now, guilt about leaving and breaking up the family may be all that is holding her to you, but at least something is. Work with what you have, and be patient.

Also, it sounds like she needs individual counseling to help her find the "medium" between the two extremes her pattern with boyfriends indicates (2 abusive/2 asserting independence). This is a difficult thing to do for anyone especially when one has poor self-esteem, which she may have had (abusive bfs) and she "over-reacted" (asserting independence by leaving 2 bfs). If you can get her to explore this in individual counseling, it might help her. The question, of course, is where do YOU fit in--you were "abusive" (p/a behavior that abused her trust in you) and now she's "asserting her independence." Finding a middle ground for the two of you is obviously the best outcome. 

Best of luck, and keep us posted.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Just so everyone understands P/A behavior

From Wikipedia - It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or *deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible*

That's me, not picking clothes, dirty dishes or general clutter. We talked about the subsitutes we have, she had stuff like scrap booking, and sewing I had stuff like work, web surfing and car stuff. Subsitutes are thing that we use to replace time with each other. Its a vicous cycle, what it leads to is us not spending time together both in and out of bed, Allow me to sound like a pig for a momemt, but without my needs being met, what do I care if there is dirty glass on my desk. 

I know that is the wrong attitude now. I'm an engineer by trade, I need things laid out very clearly for me. I'm ready to change and have already made a lot of change. I don't want to be a slob and generally I'm not. Not sure where I'm going with this, just putting it out there. That's my P/A behaviour.


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

I think you are right about her needing independence and I think you are on the right track.

Just be mellow with her, go with the flow. What do you have to lose? If you can't beat 'em join 'em.

Am with dcrim, dates at HER place could be much fun! :smthumbup:


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

Ew....don't date her unless you two are serious about getting back together. My parents had casual sex after they split up and Kids can figure this out....It was so confusing to me. Don't get datey or intimate until you are certain that you have a great chance of reconciling...and even if the kids are somewhere else at the time....eventually you'll get comfy enough to start hanging around....even when they are there. 
I wish my mother had just left it all alone.....this went on for years on and off. And he never changed because he had no need to....and she was miserable. Sorry...just my opinion from a "been there childs point of view."


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Yes, but DK the sex part isn't about the kids...it is personal and private. 

Perhaps you have issue in that _you_ felt your mom was being rather "used" but it was she just may have actually _liked_ the sex?


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

No...it was the sex....I knew it and it made me sick....they did an ok job of hiding it at first...but the more he hung around...the more I knew...Fact was....they were apart....suposed to be and at first I thought things would be ok....they'd get back together and we could have things like they once were...which was completely not healthy..but for a 7 year old girl....it seemed like a dream compared to the feelings of him deserting me...we have never had a good relationship....and I am in my thirties. He IS a user....even to his kids....but the sex thing scarred me ....BAD. Trust me...even in a healthy relationship..kids don't want to know about it...and it is almost impossible to not get caught sometime. Kids aren't nieve either....they know that that noise in the bedroom isn't exercise or if the bed is squeeking in the middle of the night...something is up...I knew. eww.....just my experience....that's all.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

We're slowing working the program. Positive results so far. Nothing big to write home about.


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

That is cool...best of luck.


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## shawn3497 (Jul 3, 2009)

Sounds like my situation, just a few different scenarios, this whole thing seems to suck the living life out of me, I am in alot of emotional pain if you ever want to talk email me at [email protected] and well go from there


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Shawn - a word of advice...there's nothing wrong in contacting other members here, but I'd suggest you save your email address for a PM. 

I know you want to help (and be helped), especially when there are shared or common experiences. 

I've contacted others here, too. Even phone calls. But it was initiated via PM. 

Just a suggestion...


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## TabbyCat (Jun 13, 2009)

Watch a movie called, "Fireproof". It might give you a few ideas.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

We watched Fireproof Friday. That went over badly. She felt like I was cramming the message down her throat. Just the night before Mort was talking about timing. I suggest to any one watching it with their spouse that they wait till the are both open to being back together.

FYI, netflix has Fireproof in stock if you can't find it, also saw it at Bestbuy last weekend.

Spent most of the 4th in the ER, still running 101+ fever after 8 days. W finally came down to wait with me once they orderd the CT scan. Gave me a lot of time to talk about "us" moments. Hopefully some good bonding happend. Still not sure why I'm sick, most likely viral.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

DeniseK said:


> Ew....don't date her unless you two are serious about getting back together. My parents had casual sex after they split up and Kids can figure this out....It was so confusing to me. Don't get datey or intimate until you are certain that you have a great chance of reconciling...and even if the kids are somewhere else at the time....eventually you'll get comfy enough to start hanging around....even when they are there.
> I wish my mother had just left it all alone.....this went on for years on and off. And he never changed because he had no need to....and she was miserable. Sorry...just my opinion from a "been there childs point of view."


I've known people who fall into that situation. I know of some who got into a casual sex relationship that lasted decades.
To me...
that seems so lame to waste ones time like that.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Still not going much better. She's been in a pissed off mood when it comes to working on the marriage fitness stuff. Her monthly visiter is in town, so she's never in a good mood when she's around. I started reading more of the book by myself while she was in the room, I was laughing at a couple sections and it peaked her intrest.

She said she might read it when I'm done with it, I told her to pick it up anytime I was reading it, and that Chapter 2 of book was as good as the 1st section of the work book. 

I still can't read her, as far as I can tell she is completely off her rocker. I'm still planning on being Mr Niceguy and give her the space she needs. Does someone else need to play the bad guy, like her mom?


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Some interesting observations today. 

She came home, and in her words is generally in a poopy mood. Maybe the reality is starting to sink in, maybe I'm driving her more nuts. I've decided not to press her anymore on the MF program, but when she gets back from our D's gymnastics class, think I will start listening to to the disks on my head phones, but making sure she knows I'm still trying to save the marriage. 

The other observation is since we listend to one of the MF CD's, where Mort talked about saying "I love you" just to illicit the normal response of "I love you too" being unhealthy, the "I Love You's" have quit being exchanged. I think I will go back an listen to that again, I need to make sure I'm taking the right approach. 

Still being Mr Niceguy. Making her Tea in the morning, love notes in her wallet, talking about non relationship - non logistic things a couple times a day. Will update more tomorrow


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Need some encouragement here. I still want to make this work but I feel like I'm pounding my head against the wall, the nicer I am the meaner and more detached she is. 

I ordered the divorce writter.com paperwork today. I want to be able to protect myself and D. 

I really want to lay the news on W tonight. Tell me why I shouldn't

Cliff notes for those just joining, wife is unhappy, needs her independance, been trying to get her to do the marriage fitness thing, she is moving out Aug 1st anyway, already signed the lease.

BK


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Just a couple pages ago you were willing to try anything to save your marriage. Take inventory, you reported all positive results until watching Fireproof. It’s a bump in the road but you can keep being pleasant without trying too hard. It may be that she can tell how much effort you’re putting into trying to be Mr. Niceguy and that’s coming off as a facade. 

Changes are not going to happen immediately. It may take a very long time, longer than a few weeks for sure. It’s so easy to give up, stop trying, go for the divorce. You need to decide if you’re willing to be there for however long it takes (and ready to accept that despite the effort it might not work out in the end) before you continue down the road to trying to salvage this. Waffling will make things worse and she’s doing enough of that for the both of you. If you decide to keep trying, there are only three and a half weeks left in July, don’t give up and at the very least you’ll be able to say you gave it your all. 

Keep working on you because no matter what happens you need to be happy with yourself if you’re going to find happiness with her (or anyone else) again.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Thanks Wants, needed that pep talk. I'm going to proceed with the papers, but will hold them till closer to the move out. 

I just got an email from her asking if she can go out with her friend to dinner. She couldn't remember when our MF teleconference was this week, apparenetly still wants to listen with me??? She's moving out in 3 weeks, why even ask if she can go out? Your not kidding about enough waffling for the both of us. 

Started to write her an email that we need to spend more than an hour a week on this process. And Frankly, this hanging out with the single friend has officially gotten old. We need to start hanging out as a family.

Anyway, put that in the drafts folder till I chill out.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

I think that’s a good plan with the divorce papers. I’m a very rational person myself and think it’s good to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. 

It’s great news that she still plans on being present for the MF conference! :smthumbup: It shows that all hope is not lost and she still plans to keep her promise and put some effort into working the program. Eventually she will figure out that she’s only going to get out of it what she puts into it but so long as she’s making an effort that’s a positive for you to focus on. Seeing your effort thus far may be having an effect. I can’t say it enough, keep working on your p/a issues for yourself and decide how far you’re willing to go to save this thing. 

It’s always best not to send heat of the moment e-mails right away, lol. This friend of hers may or may not be a bad influence but that may not be a fight you want to pick right now. If you want family time why not send her an e-mail asking to make family plans for the three of you one day this weekend? 

Weird that she’s asking “permission” to go out though? Maybe that just came out wrong.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Is this friend male? If so, maybe she trying her wings...

If female, maybe she's getting lessons...

Either way, "just dinner" shouldn't need permission, per se. More like "I'm having dinner with so and so".


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

It's female, same gal she went to Cabo with. 

It should be "just dinner". My point is that I'm sick of her spending more time with this single female and not with with me trying to work on our issues. And there's nothing funny going on there, the friend is such a stick in the mud. Not that much can shock me these days, but I'd be really shocked if there was.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

If her friend is a good listener, it's probably a stress relief for her to have her to talk to. I agree with WantsHappiness that you may want to choose your battles. Showing disappointment that she's having dinner with a friend will likely reinforce her reason for wanting independence. Showing her the D papers could be sending her the message that you've given up.

Glad you talked openly about seeing other people when you are separated. If/when she does, she should let you know ... this would be hard for me...I think at least she should be honest about what is going on, if anything, so you can make your own decisions if it comes to that.

For now, just keep on track with your self-improvement stuff and try to work in some fun family time if she is up for it (when you are feeling better)...all stressful relationship talk and no fun will probably make her want to spend time away from you.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Thanks for everyones advice. Picking my battles last night was the right thing to do. We discussed her going to dinner, and I put on my happiest face and said it was fine, then she even suggested we go out Thursday night. I talked to her mom and she'll watch the D, so hopefully it goes well.

We listened to some one of the MF CD's last night, and she even read some of the book. She's still against doing the workbook exercises, maybe as Jack NIcholson says, "She can't handle the truth." But hopefully some if the audio is sinking in.



BK


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

For the sake of discussion going forward, let's give her gal pal she went to Cabo with a name, Beth.

I now believe that Beth and the W are plotting against me, at dinner together as we speak. I think Beth is trying to break us up. She has no other friends beside my W, my W for that matter has no other real friends. Beth and the W have not seen eye to eye on certain things and not talked for a year. They are both very insecure like that. 

My Mother in Law confided in me today that she's never liked Beth after I told her my consipiacy theroy. I've always given Beth the benefit of the doubt and actually felt sorry for her. 

I think Beth hates seeing W and I together and is enabling the wife. Beth hasn't told the W that she's off her rocker, that means she as lost as the W. Someone tell me I'm not crazy. 

BK


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

So she gets back from dinner last night with Beth. Couple margarita's in her. 

Make a little small talk then I ask her about dinner. Jokingly ask if her an Beth were plotting against me during dinner. She sticks to her story that Beth is on my side and wants us to stay together. But then goes on to comment how Beth will be happy to not have to share my W. 

I've never gotten between the two. But I guess missery loves company. I asked the W, what's going to happen when Beth finally finds her man.

Why do I feel like there is something wrong with me? Is this how single women are? Or am I reading this wrong?

BK


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

I think that your W is responsible for her own actions. It’s possible that Beth doesn’t like you or doesn’t think you two are a good fit or is one of those women who is anti-marriage. Or maybe she’s not. All of that is fine for her, but if your wife is letting that effect her decisions she has bigger fish to fry. What I mean to say is if your W is venting to Beth and Beth is encouraging her to leave you and your W is up and leaving you because of it, there are much bigger underlying problems that are causing her to do so. Problems that are bigger than you possibly realized. Your W is making the decision to leave, your W signed the lease on the apartment and your W bought furniture for that apartment. Even if Beth is giving her ideas, she’s the one taking action. 

It’s easy to want to blame someone else, you don’t want to think that this is your W, it probably doesn’t seem to you like the woman you married. But only you and your W can control what happens in your marriage. I say this from experience, my H has a friend who I believe to be a very bad influence and I’ve struggled with that but at the end of the day I have to trust my H not to let it affect him to a point where he would make decisions that would hurt our marriage. This sounds like another one of the trust issues between you and your W and it’s understandable. 

In the case that your wife is just biding her time in order get the most from a divorce, if you think she would do that, you might want to protect yourself. When it comes time for her to move out, put it in writing what you both expect from each other monetarily as well as emotionally. I would include the agreement about seeing other people. You’ll still technically be married and I’m not sure what the law is about finances, look into it. 

To answer your question, I don’t think this is how all women are. Some can be vindictive and not want their friends to be happy if they’re not happy or be jealous of their friend’s other friendships but I would think that can apply to some men too. 

Good luck on your “date” tonight!


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Well the date went very well last night. Ended in the big O for us if you know what I mean. 

At dinner we talked more about why she is leaving. In the works of The Righteous Brothers, "She's lost that loving feeling" and basically feels she can't get it back living at home. Personally I like the Hall and Oats version better. Albeit, if there is a love song that decribes our situation, I think that's it. She needs to bring it on back.

Anyway, we talked about going out on her birthday for dinner and a movie again which happens to be a week after she moves out. Every day I still say WTF?

Women, (or men). Do you really have to move out to find the loving feeling again?


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Great news about the date! I’m glad it went so well!

Having not gone through any sort of separation I can’t really answer your question. I can see some ways it would help to be apart to sort things out and figure out what you want. It’s the you don’t know what you have until its gone mentality. I think it should be possible without the separation but there are plenty of people who reconcile after being separated so maybe there’s something to it.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

I think I'm being played. Starting to feel like she's going thru the motions till as her peices are falling into place smoothly. 

She left her email open, I read a message she was going to send to the guy from Cabo. 

She thinks about him, reminiscing about that evening on the beach....what ever that was. 

She wants him to come down and see her. I guess once she moves out. 

Through the majic of the internet, I know who is he is and have a number for him. Do I call him and have a man to man talk with him?

I can see this going bad in so many ways and breaking us up for ever. Is she already checked out for good?


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

Time for an update. Haven't made signifigant progess on the MF, she's just not that in to it. 

I showed her the divorce paperwork and she was taken back by it. But understands its what we both agree is we should wrap up beofre she moves out and things turn ugly.

I know she wants to date other people when she moves out, probably wants the guy from cabo to come down. I think he's playing her more than she is playing me. 

I keep hoping she moves out and quickly realizes what she's lost. I hope she doesn't damage our relationship to much while gone. 

I'm going to see a lawyer on Monday, I'm trying to be fair on the decree, but I think the lawyer will want me to put some teeth in it. W was pissed when I said I was meeting at downtown with a lawyer and she couldn't come. W can't really afford a lawyer without going into debt. 

Ahhhh..as the world turns.


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