# Trying to save my marriage/infidelity



## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

Editing my initial post to not make people's eyes cross. 

Instead of TL;DR, here we go.

My wife and I have been together almost 14 years, almost married for 12. 2 kids, 5 and 10. Everything has looked good from the outside and inside, with a few fights in between. I'm not much for yelling, though can and have done so, not nearly to the degree she does, though in her defense, I'm a hard person to argue with, as I tend to talk calmly and seek a logical answer, which must be very frustrating to an emotional thinker. My wife is easily agitated, to the point of raising her hand, at early on bringing it down. Problem is, I'm bigger than she is, and it has never done anything physical, just emotional.

Recently, my wife revealed to me she was having an emotional affair with a coworker that she had brought into our lives as a "friend" to both of us. He is married with 2 kids, though his wife consistently cheats on him, and actually picked my wife out for him to do the same at a company lunch. I found all of this out 3 weeks ago. They had gone to a weekend long concert together, which I was told was with a group of friends. I was uncomfortable, but I have never been one to tell her no, but not afraid to express my feelings. She has always been her own woman, and doesn't answer to me, I just expect that each of us keep the other's feelings in mind before we act. Supposedly nothing happened except hugging and hand-holding, and I can chose to believe or not. Both parties said nothing happened (yes I have talked to the [OM] and calmly, I don't feel the need to fight, it gets you nowhere. I told both I understand an emotional affair, after my wife revealed that she felt that she had never been in love with me (which she later denied), and that she has never felt an intimate spark with me. I forgave them both, and asked him to stop communicating with her, and her with him.

The last 3 weeks have been a struggle, she has finally (I hope) cut off every communication with him, and we are struggling to find ourselves again. She knows I'm madly in love with her. We sleep in the same bed; we snuggle. No intimacy, except for a couple times recently where she wanted me to "take care of her" which I had volunteered to do, it's something she knows I enjoy. It may look like I'm being taken advantage of, but I truly believe love is a gift, and should be given freely without expectations.

My question, is has anyone else been on the other side of this? I am not here to judge, as I know feelings and emotions can feel very frustrating and uncontrollable. Since my wife doesn't want to give me any insight other than "I'm trying", and I've told her she can have as much time as she needs to find herself, I'd like to hear from someone else on the other side. Maybe get a little bit of insight, though I know it won't be exactly the same. There's more to the story, but I'm not going to drone on again. Thank you.


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

Wow, that was really long, and probably hard to read. Kudo's to anyone who does. lol


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

The enter key is your friend. Edit it and try to break it up an bit.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Why are so many of these post so long today? Three paragraphs with a beginning middle and question in the end.

I guess it is all rantings.


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

I just read this, and wow you're right. I apologize. I guess I just started flowing without a "flow". Let me edit this. Thank you.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Maybe ask the mods to move this post to CWI - you will get lots of good advice over there.


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

That would be great. I don't exactly know how to do that though.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Be very clear with your wife that she needs to cut off all communication between herself and this man (and any enablers of the affair). A no contact letter is a good place to start. Keep an eye on her to verify that she isn't lying to you. The purpose of this isn't to spy on her but to verify that she is working to rebuild your trust so that you can actually learn to trust her. As her trustworthiness grows, you should stop the snooping. If you're not in marriage counseling, get there. Or, try looking at some of the Marriage Builders stuff. The best way to prevent this from happening again is to get to the root of why it happened, to find weak spots in the marriage and repair them, and to let her know that in no uncertain terms will you accept any form of betrayal or deceit from her again and that if she cheats on you again, you will file for divorce -- and you must mean this, even if you don't feel like you want to follow through. The "Coping With Infidelity" section will have lots of info that will help you. Unfortunately you're not alone in what you're going through.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

1) Your wife cheated. She was dating another man. Did they have sex? Perhaps, but what they did do was incredilbly wrong period. This is serious. Hugging and holding hands!? More happened with this. BUT indeed this believe it or not means it is now a PA even without penetration. Yeah seriously. It is no longer just emotional. There is physical intimacy. No doubt kissing at the least.

2) She must quit her job if he has not quit. She must go total NC from him for ever. No contact in the slightest.

3) You need to man up and validate her NC with this guy. That means complete transparency where you have all he passwords and accounts. She is to ensure that he is not just unfriended on FB but also blocked. You eed to knwo about all of her accounts. Not just the ones she wants to tall you about.

4) Your wife will need to go through withrawal. This could take six to eights weeks. IF there is ANY contact no matter how slight the clock starts over.
Think cocain addiction here.

5) You will not be able to work on your marraieg until he is verifiably out of her life. My wife and I did His Needs Her Needs together. You should too. The bpundary setting is critical. She does not have good boundaries. Eotional people must have extra good boundaries.

6) She will backslide. So you better be monitoring. 

7) Do not rug sweep this. Your wife was cheating on you with another man. It is serious. She may not see this until after withdrawal. be prepared for trickle truth.

8) In your case the OM is a predator for sure. He was cheated on so he was going to do that to others. Then again, he is probably lying. If he tries to contact your wife, contact his HR department.

I was in an EA but we did not do what your wife has done. My wife caught it before that.

And yes she cannot work with him another day. This is critical. And yes you MUST snoop. No privacy sir. So don't even say you cannot do this or you are then just unwilling to do what is needed to save your marriage.

IMO, you need to be more assertive. While we do not control people if you wife is one to just go do what she wants to do even though you object that is not much of a partnership is it. 

What happens now will determine whether your marriage will spiral downwards or possibly heal.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Moxy is right.

You need to verify what is and isn't going on now. I will go further and tell you to get a VAR and heavy duty velcro and put it under the front seat of your her car

I'd also put a keylogger on your PC and you should also pull your cell phone records and view the number of calls and texts to the OM.

You may not want to hear the rest of this but I'm going to say it anyway. The fact that she was away for an ENTIRE weekend with this guy is very troublesome. I also find it hard to believe that a relationship that was already emotional did not go physical during this weekend if not before. Very unlikely.

She lied to you about who was going to set-up the cover story for her affair. The OM confirming her story is just part of the cover. Get tested for STDs. Chances are you WERE exposed.

You said "but I truly believe love is a gift, and should be given freely without expectations" That's fine but you seem to be OK with your wife "giving" this gift to anyone. Even if this is just an EA, she has lied and broken her vows to love only you and forsake all others.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Insane, read the last three post, then read them again. They have given you the best advice for your situation. Do not think you can nice her into it. That's probably why she's falling for some one else, you're to nice. My God you just let her go away with another man. Married people have boundaries and consequences for crossing them. She is losing respect for you, because you didn't give her a boundary and let her go away with another man. Read this book by Dr Glover, "No More Mr Nice Guy" here's the link No More Mr. Nice Guy. Read it!!!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

And read "Married Man Sex Life" by A Kay too!

Married Man Sex Life


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

I appreciate all this. I have never believed I am just the "Nice Guy", though I've been told this for years and not just with my marriage. I have an insatiable appetite to make people like me. Hard to admit, but true. I can say I don't mind being walked on, but the truth is I'm good at handling it, because it has happened a lot, but it's not healthy.. Thank you all for your posts. 

I can tell you that I am 99% sure if I ask her to do these things, or open everything to me, she won't do it. She is currently unsure if she wants to be married to me, but she shows she loves me, but has adversely shown she does not respect me. I know that walking away would be better for both of us at this point, but I have never given up on anything or anyone in my life; I am a completionist almost to the point of OCD.

Please know I will take all of this advice to heart, and strongly consider it, if not for myself, then for the welfare of my children.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Marriages are based on boundaries. Each spouse has the right to these boundaries so they can live in a safe and loving relationship with out fear of being hurt or disrespected. She is not giving them to you. You have a lot of history together to throw away, will she? 

Also, you don't show enough alpha traits for her to be attracted to you, either. Do the reads, check the sites, see for yourself.


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

I may have come off wrong. I was made to think that this was a weekend trip with a group of people, mixed company. I thought it was all friends, he was just one. I would never have "allowed" her to go away with a man by themselves for a weekend. That may sound like I'm making excuses, but I'm trusting, not a sucker. We're currently emailing back and forth and I'm asking for the absolute truth. She has read the post about 30 minutes ago on CWI, and what the WS should do to help me cope. I just don't know if she'll follow it.

She emailed me talking about never feeling like she could be herself around me, and that by going out all the time, she can be the person she used to be. Unfortunately, that was 14 years ago, she's now a mother, a wife, and not a child anymore.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

InsaneInLove said:


> .
> 
> She emailed me talking about never feeling like she could be herself around me, and that by going out all the time, she can be the person she used to be.
> 
> ...


*Do not fool yourself, this is not just a MLC, it's the affair fog!*


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

InsaneInLove said:


> We're currently emailing back and forth and I'm asking for the absolute truth. She has read the post about 30 minutes ago on CWI, and what the WS should do to help me cope. I just don't know if she'll follow it.


She's reading here? Ask her to read these, if she has any feelings for her marriage of 14 years. How much could that delay her exit for the OM.

"His Needs, Her Needs"" by W Harley, so she can see what a real marriage looks like.

"Not, Just Friends"" by S Glass, so she can see what she doing. 

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

Ok, now I'll be quite.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

The OM is a co-worker not to mention a cheating scumbag. Who cares if he is an "open marriage." He is cheating with a married woman.

Your wife is reading this so I will try & appeal to her only because of the children:

Mrs InsaneInLove:

You are in what is called "affair fog." This man does not love or care about you. He is grooming you for sex & is a serial cheater with STD's. Your husband was "good enough" for 14 years so please don't try to re-write your marital history to justify cheating. When the fog lifts, and it will, you will realize your mistake. You have a chance to stop this now.

Your children NEED both parents to feel secure. Trust me, you do not want to live a life of shuttling them between two homes, divorced parents fighting & step-parent "issues."

Are your children doing well in school? Are they happy & healthy? Please think of them & how much it will crush them if you leave your husband for a cheating scumbag.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

"but she shows she loves me, but has adversely shown she does not respect me"

Wrong. She does NOT love you. When you love someone you do not have an affair with someone else!

She has a relationship with another man. She has willingly walked away from your marriage. We are not talking about a one night druken stand here. She has gone out of her way to plan and plot behind your back, to decieve you and disrespect you.

This is not love


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

InsaneInLove said:


> ...never feeling like she could be herself around me, and that by going out all the time, she can be the person she used to be. Unfortunately, that was 14 years ago, she's now a mother, a wife, and not a child anymore.


Where does she go "all the time"? And by the person she used to be, does that mean back when she was single? Is she living the single life out there w/o you? No, she could never be a hungry cougar on the prowl around you. Is that what she means? Do you even KNOW where she goes? Who she meets? What she does? Does she ever "sleep over at a friends house because she's too drunk to drive?


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

No, nothing like that. Our first troubles started with the facebook/email/texting thing. She found emotional satisfaction through talking to other men, one got a bit out of hand. No contact was made. I found out, it took about 6 months to get through all of that. She admitted it was inappropriate, but kept saying it was just a friend. The only pictures sent that I know of was his abs, and her sending a picture of her boobs. The picture of boobs was addressed to me, when she was drunk at her girlfriend's house, but the next morning I saw that she had addressed it to both of us. She insists that it was accidental. I don't buy that. I don't think that's even possible. 

We got through that, I had keylogged her computer during that time, after I found the initial text, and she got really mad. I eventually took it off and haven't done it again since.

Her going out has only been with high school girlfriends and she has never spent the night away from home, unless it was on a trip with her best friend. Pictures have confirmed this to be true.


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

I gotta throw this out here. I'm not the easiest person to talk to. I'm an extremely logical thinker, and many times have to be right, or try to prove that I am. Despite if I am or not, I had a hard time looking past the nose on my own face. No, this is not a reason for her to cheat. She has had these feelings for a long time, and has never come out and said them, for fear of arguing with me and losing. Funny thing is, 9 times out of 10, at the end of an argument, I apologize and go to her and hold her. Maybe she felt defeated, and probably deflated. This is where one of the major rifts in our marriage came from. On the flip side, she rarely if ever discussed feelings with me, especially on important emotional matters.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

InsaneInLove said:


> I may have come off wrong. I was made to think that this was a weekend trip with a group of people, mixed company. I thought it was all friends, he was just one. I would never have "allowed" her to go away with a man by themselves for a weekend. That may sound like I'm making excuses, but I'm trusting, not a sucker. We're currently emailing back and forth and I'm asking for the absolute truth. She has read the post about 30 minutes ago on CWI, and what the WS should do to help me cope. I just don't know if she'll follow it.
> 
> She emailed me talking about never feeling like she could be herself around me, and that by going out all the time, she can be the person she used to be. Unfortunately, that was 14 years ago, she's now a mother, a wife, and not a child anymore.


The big problem here is that you are not talking to a rational person in her right now. Seriously. She is under the influence of very strong brain chemicals. reasoning is unlikely to work though it is worth a quick shot. 

Lets get real, she has already spent the weenend eith this guy and is essentially saying she just wants to go out all of the time.

WTH does that mean? Date other men? Hangout with other men? Really? Do not put up with this for a moment. The more you put up with this the less respect she will have. 

But it makes one wonder if this is her first rodeo.

It seems from your posts that she indeed does not listen to you or respect you at all. Whatup with that? When did this start?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

InsaneInLove said:


> No, nothing like that. Our first troubles started with the facebook/email/texting thing. She found emotional satisfaction through talking to other men, one got a bit out of hand. No contact was made. I found out, it took about 6 months to get through all of that. She admitted it was inappropriate, but kept saying it was just a friend. The only pictures sent that I know of was his abs, and her sending a picture of her boobs. The picture of boobs was addressed to me, when she was drunk at her girlfriend's house, but the next morning I saw that she had addressed it to both of us. She insists that it was accidental. I don't buy that. I don't think that's even possible.
> 
> We got through that, I had keylogged her computer during that time, after I found the initial text, and she got really mad. I eventually took it off and haven't done it again since.
> 
> Her going out has only been with high school girlfriends and she has never spent the night away from home, unless it was on a trip with her best friend. Pictures have confirmed this to be true.


High School friends. Wow. Sounds very immature. 

I suggest you make your stand now. It will not be any better to go down this road. There is no room for compromise with this which simplifies things really. Not saying it is easy. 

This feels a lot more like resentment. Why?

Her wanting things to be private indicates she is wanting to hide things. Things outside of her marriage.

What does she do for a living? What % of the family income comes from her?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

InsaneInLove said:


> I gotta throw this out here. I'm not the easiest person to talk to. I'm an extremely logical thinker, and many times have to be right, or try to prove that I am. Despite if I am or not, I had a hard time looking past the nose on my own face. No, this is not a reason for her to cheat. She has had these feelings for a long time, and has never come out and said them, for fear of arguing with me and losing. Funny thing is, 9 times out of 10, at the end of an argument, I apologize and go to her and hold her. Maybe she felt defeated, and probably deflated. This is where one of the major rifts in our marriage came from. On the flip side, she rarely if ever discussed feelings with me, especially on important emotional matters.


Please read MMSL -> Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

AND Nor More Mister Nice guy. You are being very Beta and she is looking for a man who takes things. Not someone she can dominate. She may not realize this.

But again, how nice of you to want to reason with her, BUT she needs to quit her job and go NC with this guy like right now. Having children is the issue. Otherwise many would say, just ket her go. And in fact you may have to just let her go anyway.


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## desperate44 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hi you asked for some perspective from "the other side".. All the things your wife is saying I said to my husband. I need space to "find myself".. I only flirted, ect, ect, ect... It was so much more! the signs your wife is exibiting are the signs of a classic affair. Do some research on the internet. I think I would have respected my husband more and felt that the marriage was worth saving had he put his foot down and walked away. We always want what we can't have.


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

Well, after dinner last night, I tried to talk to her. At first she didn't want to, so I told her "that's fine, you still don't want to talk about this, you may not ever. It's over". She yelled and said both cars were in here name (long story), and that I could walk wherever I wanted. I told her no, she wants out of the marriage, so she's free to leave. That got her talking.

We sat down, I talked calmly (surprising, but I just couldn't yell or get mad), she responded with nothing but sarcasm and anger. I simply restated in short terms everything I've seen, and asked to see her phone, email, and facebook. She said "they're all yours, whenever you want." I asked her about if she and the OM had sex, kissed or were still in contact. She said no sex, not in contact, but they had kissed once. I told her that id we divorce, I can't force here to do anything, but that if she entered a relationship with him afterwards, I'll know he was always a "factor" as she puts it, and that it would end the friendship and not just the marriage. She said that that would mean I would be controlling and that it wasn't fair. I said fair or not, those are my feelings, your choice. I told her I'm done being taken advantage of, strung along... I'm done treading water. I left to go see some friends at a trivia night for about 3 hours.

I came back, she kissed me, and jumped on top of me. She wanted to make love. I kept saying no, but she said she wanted to try and see how it feels. I shouldn't have, but we did. It was probably the best we'd had in 10 years. Afterwards, she started crying because she said she didn't feel that "spark". She wants to make me happy, and said that she thoroughly enjoys the sex because I know her timing and it's the best she said she's ever had. I told her after, I appreciate doing something nice, and that it feels good, but that I'm not here as her booty call. I told her she needs to go out and find her happiness, and if she ever needs me for anything, she knows where to look. I have to find someone who wants me for who I am. I'm a catch, people really do love me. I've always been popular. She needs to start respecting herself. I said "I love you", if you need anything, feel free to call. Sounded harsh.

The next morning I woke up and I swear I heard Bee Gee's music as I walked. Something snapped. I felt that I loved her, but was not in love with her, and that I didn't need her anymore.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hello, Mr Nice Guy, no more! The lyrics to the music you heard say, you don't need some one else to make you happy, you need you to make you happy.


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## InsaneInLove (Sep 4, 2012)

I appreciate that. Yeah, the only one who can make you happy is you. I preached that for years, never on myself though. Last night hit me like a ton of bricks. I genuinely felt a weight lift. Even my friends saw an immediate change. I don't know things will go from here, I just know that I'll make it without her. Maybe we can revisit things in the future, but that's on her. I'm not going to wait. I have myself and my children to look after. Thanks all.


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