# Separated at her request - but want her back



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I'm just starting my 3rd week away from my wife of 13 years (together for 20...since we were in our teens).....and it's killing me.

Our story is this....

We got together young and were each others first proper partners...we have 4 great kids and all seemed ok until a few years ago. Basically, things got a bit stale and she began drinking (never having done so before)

Before we knew it she was an alcoholic doing 20 bottles of Bud a day...and blamed me for it. She said I'd be a selfish husband and never joined in with things she wanted to do. She was right, I wasn't a BAD husband....just no way good enough - but it was too late and her drinking became worse as she blamed me more and more.

After doing...and relapsing...a couple of private detox's we realized we had to split. I was crushing her with my constant worrying about her drinking.... which made her drink. It was spiraling out of control. So I left 3 weeks ago.

The last couple of weeks were very bad and she said she hated me and never wanted to get back.....but she was very drunk a lot of the time!

Since the split we have chatted (only by email) and only about the kids/money/etc. She did have a few drunk/angry emails in the first week but they died down and she even suggested catching up in a few weeks would be nice (but odd)

So right now....I'm in am apartment on my own (with my kids every other weekend) and she's at "home".

She seems able to resist me much better than I can her! I asked her if she wanted to grab a coffee and she simply emailed back that it was too soon.

My 17 year old daughter has chatted with her and asked her if she wanted to try again with me.....she told her she didnt know.

So what do I do - I know she needs space to work on her drinking (and she is doing loads better I hear - from the kids) She has a LOT of friends that have gather round her...she FINALLY admitted to some of them she was a drunk.....pity she didn't do it when I was trying to help her on my own!

DO I ignore her and get on with my life? Do I drop in a casual "want a coffee" once a week?

I dont want to see 20 years go up in smoke......will space let her miss me or forget me? I know all the stuff about looking after me but I just feel that if I saw her having a great time it would hurt.

Bit of a mess right now!

I just sent her an email agreeing that the coffee idea was too soon but I was just missing chatting with her. No response


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

I handled the situation with my ex wife all wrong, and continue to make stupid mistakes from time to time. I don't know what kind of person your wife is, but if she's saying it's too soon, then you just need to back off. Hounding her to meet up and have coffee or whatever after she's already told you she isn't ready yet is just going to annoy her right now. Try to be patient.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Find who her new boyfriend is.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

keko said:


> Find who her new boyfriend is.


I know that's an easy conclusion to jump to....but I just dont think it's the case.

She had a kiss with a random stranger on NY's eve....but was wasted.

I have since spoken with her friends (who she confinds in) and had a glance at her private facebook messages (where she spoke to close friends about that kiss) - she regrets it, it didnt go beyond that one thing and that was it.

Trust me, she's not really been in any state to see anyone else. She spent the last few months trying to fight the urge to drink (and failing) the only time she went out was on the odd occasion we tried to have a nice night out.

In her own words she is "lost" right now and a shadow of who she used to be. If she was seeing someone else I dont know when she'd be doing it!

And now she has the house to herself my 4 kids are still there....they tell me her female friends are round a lot, but thats it. She had her first weekend last week where I had the kids....she had plans to go out dancing with mates but ended up just sitting in her room with a few beers feeling sorry for herself (i know because my 17 yr old stayed with her that weekend)

I suppose its possible she is having an EA on her phone (i can see her email and facebook).......but seriously, she's just in no state for that right now. In fact, thats half the problem...she is just numb to so many feelings...including those for me.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Ok, I've been reading lots of posts on here and have some questions.....

Clearly I need to go "no contact" on her....I can easily see her sitting at home thinking "he's still hassling me via text".

But when is it ok to drop her a text and just say "hi, want to grab that coffee?" - I thought if I wait 2 more weeks that will be a month......it's crazy. In the last 20 years we havent gone more than a few days without speaking. I havent seen her face or heard her voice in 2 weeks and its terrible.

So....2 more weeks? She did say (in one of her emails) that a good catch up would be nice in a few weeks.

Also - I am torn between helping her and wanting her to feel the consequences of her actions. She is a partner in my business but thats only for the tax break. SHe does about 5% of the work.....just a few hours a week. We make very good money and it just gets split between us.....so right now she has no money issues. (although I did see on her online bank statement I can still view, that she paid £1000 to her alcohol recovery therapist - which is wonderful - really!)

If I wanted I could drop her from the business and make life VERY hard...or I just leave things as they are for now. I'm conflicted.......on the one hand I know she is feeling lost and sad and wanting to recover...and let down by her family.....so I want her in a secure environment. On the other hand, she has the house, car, kids, plenty of money - I know she is sad......but her life has not been upturned like mine. Her biggest problems are that she cant work the TV media centre! I have to watch youtube to learn how to press a shirt!!!!

I was even tempted to transfer her half the therapy bill.....her illness, our problem i thought????

And on Thursday my new car arrives.....ordered just before the break up - a brand new Merc SLK. I dont know how she'll take that - she knew it was coming.....we ordered a people carrier 7 seater and this (she also has her own little ford puma) As a family we would have shared them all - now she gets the Puma and wagon and I get the SLK (and the wagon when I have the kids) - will she see it and think "he's happy and moved on...I want him" or "that bastard is blowing cash on that thing"....trust me, I'd swap it to be back in my house!!!!!!


SOOOOOOO conflicted!!!!

I suppose I'm worried that some of the "no contact" let them see what they lost stuff on here may not work on someone so lost in herself, and really sad.


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

Usually the advice I hear is to not break no contact. Wait for her to contact you. Stick to your guns. (easier said than done...I couldn't do it, either, but I hear it works wonders)


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

so if there's no word in two weeks I dont mention a catch up? how long do I wait! 2 hrs is tough!!!


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

The main point of no contact is to help you detatch emotionally and begin to move on with your life/heal. Now, often times a side effect of no contact is that your wayward partner begins to wonder about and miss you and perhaps they will eventually initiate contact, but it's not guaranteed. Typically around here, you'll be told to wait for your spouse to initiate contact, as you asking her to meet after she already told you it was too soon will come off as needy. Big no-no.

And again, it's easy to say, but hard as hell to do. I am JUST NOW getting to where I'm tired of being hurt every time I try to contact my ex wife, so I'm pretty much forced to go no contact just to keep from killing myself. (I've been away from my ex wife for almost two months) Whatever you think will help you to get through to her right now isn't going to work. You can't talk her into wanting to get back together. The only thing you can do now is just give her (and yourself) space.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Yes....but if after a MONTH I suppose I thought I could go with "coffee?" and if she says no then I can REALLY move on.

She is in a real mess right now and I genuinely believe she may still want it to work.....one of her emails around the time I left was her saying how sad she was and that "i wanted to love you forever"

The drinking, and my hassling her to stop....was an addiction for both of us. I dont feel like beating on her for something she had so little control over.

She didnt throw me out....she said we could have gone to separate rooms and stayed in the same house......but we were just crushing each other. I'd see her drink and have to say stop...which would make her drink more....and spiral out of control.


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm so so sorry your here. Your wife has disconnected from the marriage, this is by far the WORST marriage issue to solve. The problem is for you this is all freshly terrible and you just NOW starting to deal with it. BUT for her she left the marriage a year or two ago, and really has no interest in it anymore. What she's fighting now is the fact of whether she even wants to say "I gave it a try, but it didn't work out" for her own piece of mind later on. I hate to use this analogy but its like this, after 20 years, if tomorrow you got into a car accident, she prob wouldn't even show up at the hospital to check on ya. I know I know brutal stuff.

The truth is you cant make her fall back in love with you, and that's exactly whats missing now. And let me be honest, she could be having an emotional affair, and it could easily be with a woman, don't take that like she's cheating on you, just that she's connected with another person that's not you. The friendship/advice/support she used to get from you, she is now getting from someone else. These quickly do escalate to something "more" just because that person feels so desperate and alone. She could have even connected with someone in Detox.

Ok, so now how to deal with it, and this is almost basically gonna be about you and the kids only!!! Going Dark with kids is not advisable. So your choice is the 180: 

The Healing Heart: The 180

You will always have reasons to talk to the wife due to the kids. Heres the problems with going dark or staying away, she's already disconnected, why leave her more alone? Its a very very fine line you must now walk, being supportive, keeping some distance, being there for her, and keep some boundries. back and forth back and forth. Theres is no set of rules, each person is different.
She doenst feel like she has to suffer consquneces of her actions right now cause she's so lost. So careful with that route it can backfire, but also don't want to get walked all over either.


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

by the way, I just noticed you moved out of the house, in my opinion this was a mistake. at least if you still have kids at home. If she truly said she'd stay in another room, i'd ask her again if that offer was still open. You can do way more damage away, no contact, than you can being a good father, doing the laundry, cooking dinner, taking over, those are things that can NEVER be bad. They allow you to stay busy, be responsible, be a father, keep your distance still. There will be days she see's your involvement, and days she still doesn't want to deal with you. You must treat them the same. Easier said that done I know. But being involved is better than being left out, at least to the kids.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

That does make sense.....but I'm sure there was love there? I have emails from her last summer where she said how much she loved me and wished we didnt fight.

I took the boys away to the beach for a week in Feb to give her space and after 5 days she was emailing saying she did love me and it was just all a bit crap right now.

I want to care for her and help her get better - you are right about the friends, she has used them instead of me for support and now I'm "un-needed" almost!


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Thumper said:


> by the way, I just noticed you moved out of the house, in my opinion this was a mistake. at least if you still have kids at home. If she truly said she'd stay in another room, i'd ask her again if that offer was still open. You can do way more damage away, no contact, than you can being a good father, doing the laundry, cooking dinner, taking over, those are things that can NEVER be bad. They allow you to stay busy, be responsible, be a father, keep your distance still. There will be days she see's your involvement, and days she still doesn't want to deal with you. You must treat them the same. Easier said that done I know. But being involved is better than being left out, at least to the kids.


I dont think I can go back....I have spent too much on getting set up in a flat on my own. It would be madness and right now she'd refuse (as much as she can....I could force the issue, its still our house - but it would be ugly)

I am only a mile away - should I see the kids more? SHould I show her I am a great dad in that way? AghhhH! What to do???


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

sorry I meant to say she's been leaving the marriage for a year or two, not that she actually already left it. There is love there, I agree, they don't seem to see it, and on top of it they seem to bury it way way down to protect themselves from being hurt again. 

Another thing is.............theres some issues here that haven't been addressed yet............and there not in the open yet. You need to figure out what they are on your own, and see if you can address them. BUT YOU NEED TO GIVE HER SPACE. Your hope here is to change the things about you that made the marriage stale in the first place, or issues of trust with you. Your old marriage is over, and so is that version of your wife. You can win her back, but its needs to be a lifestyle changes, not some temporary fix your doing just to get back in her life but not solving a thing. Its not impossible, its gonna take some time, your gonna get your butt kicked on a regular basis, your gonna question yourself daily. But if you don't want to have any regrets a year or two from now, you put in the work.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Oh, I know the reasons I was rubbish.

I was slefish, I spent a lot on my own hobbies......I didnt involve myself in her activities. SHe had plenty of friends weddings she went to alone because I didnt fancy it.

But she KNOWS I know...and she knows, for the last 6 months I have tried like mad.

Its a case of too little too late. She knows I am trying but no longer feels enough for me to make it work.....now the question is how much of that is REAL and how much is the drink screwing with her.

And....what now??? At the moment I see the kids every other weekend (and help out in between if needed)

She'd happily let me see them all the time....should I do that?

SHould I ask to take them out for an hour or so on days that arent mine? She'd be more than happy for that to happen.


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Being a good father should be your top priority. Its a good outlet, the kids don't feel like they've been lost in the shuffle. What are their ages? Set up things to do with them, even if its a text every night before bed with an I LOVE YOU

don't make the mistake you made with your wife, not involved enough, with your kids.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

the boys are 6,9,12 and my daughter 17

I see my girl a few times a week...she's old enough to come by mine when she likes. She is great - but is having a hard time being caught in all this.

My boys are ok.....I see them once every other week but its flexible.....today the 12 year old had basketball trials a 1hr drive away. My wife had plans with a friend to pop round so I took him (and the 9 yr old) - so I see them ok. And they skype me all the time.

They just want their mum and dad back in the same house.....I'm sure my wife does too - she just doesnt want to spend the next 40 years with me, not loving me, if thats how she feels.


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

well if your gonna get your wife back you have to WIN her back, and it might very well be too late. But in all honesty, you need to focus on you and the kids for now. If your hobbies interfered with you dad duties before? then even more so work on becoming a better father. Find your faults and address them, or you'll be dealing with this in every future relationship as well.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

The kids are good. I see them lots.

And they chat to me most days. I certainly do far more with them than my wife. These last few months she almost gave up on them.

I read the 180 - I'm confused.

She does want space - I crushed her these last few months and she needed me out of her face. But for 20 years prior I wasnt good enough.

So what now? How do I balance space and love?

My plan was to have no contact.....but in thursday I will drop her car round that I've been using while waiting for my new one. I will do so very early, keys in the letter box and wont see her.

I was going to leave a framed "cartoon print" of the car in it for her with a little note saying "thanks for the loan of car, I know you missed it" - she loves the little car!

So is a week of space then a small gift ok? too much? too needy?


In the last 6 months I have genuinely become a new man! If I dont get her back the next wife will have a great husband!!!!

Her New Years eve drunk kiss was a HUGE reality check.....I have done more laundry in the last 6 months than the previous 20 years combined! We have also done stuff together....even as it was falling apart we went to a music gig and stuff we would not have done before. She sees the new me, she just doenst know if she loves me still (other than the almost family love she has for me having been together so long - she was 16 when we met...20 years ago)


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

the 180 is about taking care of yourself, limiting emotional bonds, while keep your spouse at a distance. Rule 8 no gifts.

This all takes time and you need to be patient. This could take 6 months to a year, or longer, as time goes on, you will feel more an more comfortable. BUT more important than anything you can do for her and yourself is LISTEN. Slow things down and just listen to whats being said. Your hints will be there for you, don't push it.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Ok.....but ow do I show her love and that I'm the guy she fell in love with....if she literally never sees me? I pick up the kids on the driveway? I havent seen her face in 2 weeks!

And isnt the gift a little reminder I know her well and care.....Its the sort of thing I should have done all those years....so its a sort of 180!

As for hints...our last contact was me saying coffe, her saying no and me saying sorry, just missed you (to which there's be no response).....whats my hint now? Or do I just go out, hit the gym....learn to cook and wait? (while seeing the kids plenty?)


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Lewis, 
Stop. 
You are obviously hurting right now. I can feel it through your posts. You desperately want things to return to the way they were so you will stop hurting. I get it. I understand it. What you don't know (or anyone else including your wife knows) is how long this may go on. Steel yourself for the long haul. This may not turn out the way you want it to. Your wife may have decided to move on. You need to prepare yourself for that outcome. I think the theme of people's responses to you is take care of yourself. Focus on you right now. The more you beg, plead, cajole, communicate, the worse you are going to feel every time you get rejected. Stop giving her the power to hurt you. She's obviously confused about something right now. Maybe she's having an affair. Maybe not. Either way, her stuff is on her. You don't own what she is doing or feeling. You cannot make her feel a certain way. I highly suggest you lovingly detach from her and her confusion and problems and focus on yourself. You are the only one who can meet your needs and make yourself happy. Do not depend on your wife to do this for you. The 180 is a good plan. Consider it carefully. It is not a parlor trick to make your wife miss you. It is a behavioral shift for you to re-establish your personal boundaries and reconnect with yourself. It's doing the opposite of what you have done in your relationship with your wife. Something wasn't working, so why keep doing the wrong thing? This doesn't mean going completely dark, but it does mean stop chasing her. Maybe she'll be attracted to you again. Maybe not. At least at the end of this, you'll be reconnected with yourself and ready to move forward....with or without her. 

Brother, you are not alone. Small steps every day. PM me if you need to.

HL


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

right....I'm going out for a jog!

I am looking after myself - I am seeing family and friends more. Working out a lot (when she met me I was a gym coach.....over the years I became an out of shape financial consultant. Money, but not what she hooked up with! - I am, almost....back to the shape I was in at 19 when I met her!)

I suppose my only outstanding questions right now are:

Do I leave the small picture/gift in the car on Thusrday

Do I ask to see the kids more - as in, before next Friday when I have them for the weekend.

Do I ask for coffee again? I suppose she HAS to ask me at some point!

Our youngest is in a local theater play in july and she booked tickets for us all - and asked if I'd like to go with them to pizza hut before the show. So she does want us to be able to do family stuff at some stage....in fact, it was hearing that which prompted me to do the coffee request too soon!!!


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

learning to cook, hitting the gym, going to the library, seeing the kids are all things you need to do EITHER way. Right now your problem is your doing everything FOR her still, in an attempt to fix this now. You have to be patient, you have to understand she might NOT ever respond. Its brutal, TRUST ME I KNOW, forcing it makes it worse, she has the added pressure of trying to get sober on top of the marriage issues. Not a good combo, but they're are tied together imho.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

You are right - she drank because the marriage was stale. She became addicted because she had that "gene" (plenty of people drink without getting hooked)

She drank more because I tried to stop her....somewhere she got sucked into a fog where she doesnt know if she hates me/loves me/blames me...and whats the drink making her feel that and whats her real feelings.

So...space while she gets better. But a little gift amid the no contact? Thats cute isnt it - It's hardly a new ring! Its suppose to make her grin!


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

give the gift its gonna make you feel better, I just want to warn you that you might not get the desired response your hoping for. you might not get any response at all. YOU NEED TO BE FINE WITH THAT.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I'm fine with that - my only fear would be if it made things WORSE.

But I do think if she doesnt hear from me for a week, gets her car back and theres a little "hey, thanks" in there from me she cant get too angry????

And it will make me feel better!

I suppose if a gift after (then) 3 weeks of not seeing each other is a bad thing then its all over anyway.

This is already the longest we've ever gone without talking in 20 years


----------



## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

I don't want to high jack your thread, but my wife and I are in the EXACT situation is all, my non ability earlier in the marriage to spend quality time with her, made her build up a anger/resentment/disconnect to me. After more than 21 years its most likely over and she has moved on, and like you, theres NOTHING I can do. I know the regret your feeling, still live it everyday, as do a lot of us here at TAM. Use the website for tips/advice or just come to post on a bad day, you will get thru this, your gonna be a better man because of it, just like me, but it might not be for the wife's we have now.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow...you are in one serious guilt trip. Can't believe you are actually buying her line that you turned her into an alcoholic. 

One more thing. Rule out an affair. You say it is unlikely but please do rule it out. That includes phone records, chat apps on her smartphone(Does she keep it locked ?) FB are the only source of private communications. Other methods include burner phones, chat apps. Try to see if you can GPS her car. You need to absolutely rule out the affair. 

The money on the business is enabling her to continue in her destructive cycle. If you are not careful about it, she will destroy you financially. Talk to an attorney immediately to protect yourself. Stop enabling her by giving her unlimited access to the family money. If she does 5% work, she just gets 5% money. You were with her for 20 years, so you obviously. Time to show some tough love. By letting her dictate how everything is going, you are just letting her get away with her alcoholic behavior. No consequences = no incentive to change.


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Lewis1973 said:


> right....I'm going out for a jog!
> 
> I am looking after myself - I am seeing family and friends more. Working out a lot (when she met me I was a gym coach.....over the years I became an out of shape financial consultant. Money, but not what she hooked up with! - I am, almost....back to the shape I was in at 19 when I met her!)
> 
> ...


I recommend "no" to all of your questions. You are setting yourself up for more rejection. Lewis, you are co-dependent. You are the spouse of an alcoholic. You are enmeshed with her and her problems. There is recovery for your co-dependence. It can start today. You aren't going to succeed by carrying on like this. Give the woman her space so she can do what she is going to do. You cannot control the outcome, Lewis. CANNOT. Stop caretaking and trying to manipulate her. Demand time with your kids. They're your kids and they need a strong masculine father who will not be treated as a doormat any longer. You're trying to nice her out of this. It's not going to work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

So in simple terms, see the kids - be polite to her when she emails about kids/business and do nothing until I get an email asking for coffee.......then report back here for advice?


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Lewis1973 said:


> So in simple terms, see the kids - be polite to her when she emails about kids/business and do nothing until I get an email asking for coffee.......then report back here for advice?


Ultimately it's up to you. You can only control you, so do what you want. It seems to me you're very excited about this coffee date. I'd suggest that if you want to have coffee if you're invited, then do, but check yourself beforehand so you don't go in looking desperate. Take this time as a break time for you and your kids. Pour your energy into yourself and them. They will always be yours, so invest your time into them. You might consider al anon meetings for yourself and kids too. You can't fix her, but you can fix you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I understand all that - and am trying to focus on me and the kids (the youngest is coming for a sleepover tonight)

I want the coffee because I havent seen her in weeks....I just miss her so much. It's hard for my head to get round how she can be so distant....not wanting to see me, she doesnt even ask the kids how I am (after they've seen me) - information THEY told ME because they thought it was a little odd to not say "how's your dad"

I know she needs space, I'm just upset at how good she is being at getting it!

I suppose I should take some comfort from the fact that she DOESNT want coffee yet......maybe there is still a lot of emotion there...which is a good thing? I guess if she just said "lets chat anytime, like friends" that wouldnt be want I want.

Just tough to get her out of my head 24/7 - I am seeing friends, going out, hitting the gym......yet still fall asleep thinking of her and wake up the same. Hell, I even dream about her! Yet she seems to have quite easily put me to the back of her mind


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

The feeling rejected is the hard part - it hurts. That's why others here have suggested you look into if she is having an affair. It's a maybe, although I understand why you may not want to believe it. If she's devoting all of her emotional energy to this new guy, there is none left for you. People having an affair follow a basic script and her complete detachment and disconnect may indicate this is your case as well - even though this may be very hard to believe. My wife did this to me too, Lewis and I never would have thought she would. You may need to do some legal investigation on your own or perhaps hire a PI to assist. Please don't use your kids as spies. Do not put them in the middle. Be their dad. You can have a separate relationship with them, and its important to do so now. They are probably freaked out too over this. 

It's important you realize that your wife is doing is all about her. She isn't focused on her 20 years of marriage with you right now. She is focused on her own crap - whatever that may be. The rejection feels very personal, and I get that. You want to fix whatever it is you think you caused so she will come back to you. This is about her, and you cannot force her to contact you. Let her own her problems, actions, and consequences. You truly have to be ready to let this marriage go if you want to save it. You cannot control the outcome, mate. There is a lot of unknown there. I suggest you also get comfortable with the unknowns. The more you accept yourself, her, and the situation exactly the way things are, the better this will get for you. This separation time can be a gift to you. 

My separation time has been excellent. I was like you, Lewis. i wanted to fix my marriage so bad and I couldn't understand why my wife wouldn't. I thought this was so easy to fix if she would just listen to me and remember our family and all of the good times and how much we loved each other. It just drove her farther away. I tried to manipulate and control. I've been attached to outcomes. I've sent the nice gift with the smily card. I've been clowned at every turn. Don't let this be you, friend. If you asked me last January if I'd be here at TAM writing about my separation and divorce, I would have laughed out loud. Things change and people change. Roll with it. 

I've spent a lot of time listening to people here at TAM. I've read a lot. I've observed a lot in my wife. She's completely on her own program now. She's the star of her show and I was in the last act. She's having a wonderful midlife transition turned crisis now, but it's all about her and all on her. I co-parent with her, and that's all I want now. I've met with my own attorney and have filed the separation paperwork now. She doesn't like this turn of events as she's now lost control. I'm not her plan B anymore. At least I know that I'll be okay without her. I'm still young (I think). I'll be okay. Now, I think my wife is pathetic. i don't treat her with disdain or pity. I treat her with cool, firm, dispassionate respect. 

MIght I add one more suggestion: read Awareness by Anthony de Mello. It's been linked quite a bit here in many threads. If you need it, I can send. It's a long read and it took me several days. It gave me a lot of very good perspective. I think Zillard's thread had a bunch of good other reading too. Take a look.

Best, 

HL


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I will read - thanks. Reading helps! It's nice to know these are emotions others have gone through.

As for the affair - it is always POSSIBLE - but here's the history.....

In 2011 she got into a habbit of late night texting with one of our kids basketball coaches. It never got overtly sexual but was certainly over the line for a married woman. During this time she never saw him without the kids present. It was limited to late night, while she was wasted on beer. When I found out she was mortified.....in fact, when I read to her what she said (I copied it of her facebook account) she was mortified she'd even said that stuff - she was soo drunk she couldnt remeber doing half of it. Since that day she has avoid the guy 100% and regrets it completly. In fact, she pretty much stopped going anywhere that he might be - which meant I did all the kids taxi runs to basketball training!!!

Then...new years eve she was angry at me, feeling low, wasted and kissed a random stranger. He texted her the next day - she said she said no. 

Since then she has hardly left the house.....she never goes out without her friends (who are also frienldy with me and would NEVER hide from me that she was seeing someone) On the few occasions she goes out the photos from that night will be all over facebook - its her and mates....she isnt hiding anything.

So....the ONLY possible is that she is having an EA, by text, with a man she kissed once, while drunk, 5 months ago.

Thats possible.....but if you could see how much effort she has to put into staying sober, I think you'd agree her emotional discont from me is due to beer, not another man.

There's really nothing I can spy on. SHe doesnt go out, when she does she doesnt go alone. As I said.....a text relationship is possible, but just make zero sense to start something when she KNOWS she is at an all time low - with a guy she met for 10 minutes and is deeply embrassed about.


And thinking about it....does it matter right now? She has NO option to escalate to a PA - she simply doesnt go out enough and any deviation would be obvious to all the people that are surrounding her to help with her drinking. So I cant do anything - even if I found out she was texting, and as i've said......I know her, I know where she's at - and I cant see its possible. I dont mean "ohhh, i trust her" - I just mean, its not possible.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

OK......Time to move on!

I've downloaded all the books mention in Zillard's thread (his postings have helped a HUGE amount)

I need to move on and focus on me and ignore what she's up to.

I just got a text from kid asking "when you pick me up at 5pm can you bring back the pump - mum wants it for the pool"

lol....the pump is a pump I took to blow up the inflatable bed my kids sleep on at mine. She wants it because the really expensive hottub we bought last summer got drained by me when I left (at her request) and she has no idea how to get it set up again.....so she will be blowing up the crappy little baby pool for the kids to play in tomorrow on the bank holiday - lol....yeah, wrap up warm kids!

I'm not going to go full on 180, etc and start cutting off access to funds and stuff....I have to respect she has a drink problem that is her problem, but not her fault (in that it's an illness) I want her to get well.

Had a very good chat with her brothers wife (she hasnt really spoken to them since I went as she knows I told them about the drink and she feels embarassed/angry at that).....anyway, bro's wife is removed enough from my X to be impartial - she said that she see's my X throwing herself into all sorts of DIY jobs in a bid to keep her mind busy. She IS working on the drink....but we both agree she isnt there yet as she hasn't taken full responsibility for it being HER problem. The DIY lets her focus on other stuff.....there will come a time (either she runs out of DIY...or even the therapy takes her there) when she admits to herself it wasnt me (well, not all me). At that point we can chat, and see where we stand.

SO, my plan is to make sure she is not under too much stress - so no cutting of her money.....but leave her to it for now. At some stage that will have to be re-visited but I know she will ask to meet before that happens. She isnt the woman I married, but I still know her - we wont go months without talking.

So tonight, I'm cooking my dinner then reading my books!

Got a week full of work, meals out with mates, my SLK gets delivered on Thursday and I have the dentist on Friday (some minor cosmetic stuff that now seems more important!). So by saturday I'll be looking good and feeling good!


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

lol...well that went well. Arrived to find my 12 year old dragging (as best he could) a bin bag towards my car.

A quick scan showed wifey had gone through the house and put ANYTHING that was mine in there....I mean, anything she could find that I'd missed. Just stupid little things. Nothing of value.

I put the lot in the skip she had on the drive for her "clear out" and left with my boys.

I dont know what step is next in our life......but getting my lad to drag the last tiny bits of "me" out of my house isnt it!


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Lewis1973 said:


> lol...well that went well. Arrived to find my 12 year old dragging (as best he could) a bin bag towards my car.
> 
> A quick scan showed wifey had gone through the house and put ANYTHING that was mine in there....I mean, anything she could find that I'd missed. Just stupid little things. Nothing of value.
> 
> ...


Maybe she's a bit over-empowered about this whole separation. If she's so desperate for separation, why didn't she move out? Why are you living in a rental with your kids on blow-up mattresses? You might want to re-think your strategy here. Although she is sick with alcoholism and is attempting to heal, she still sounds like a cake eater. You know your situation best, but having your kid pull your stuff out to you in a trash bag is crap. First, she doesn't have the guts to do it herself and is using your kid to do it. This would be unacceptable to me. Secondly, she has the audacity to remove you from the home whilst your paying all of the bills. Really? This sounds like she is doing this for the long haul, and actions like this don't make sense for a short term separation. I suggest you have a business only meeting with her after you speak to a lawyer about your rights here. Set some boundaries here and outline a financial plan. It looks like you're the paycheck. In some states here in the US, leaving the home prejudices some courts into giving the family home to the one who stayed. I think you are being careful as it has only been around a month, and I think you don't want to rock the boat, but her actions are speaking loudly.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I left because it got to a point where we HAD to be apart from each other.

In the final few days before I went she actually offered to go...in fact, she texted her parents and said SHE was off.

I went because she was in NO STATE to go alone....she'd have died in motel somewhere, drunk. Oddly, with the kids to look after....she has something to focus on - and is better.

She also said "you could always have the spare room" - she didnt want me to go...we both knew something had to happen though and the spare room would have been a disaster - I'd still have been in her face daily, dealing badly with the fact she drinks.

She is eating cake...but I'm not sure she likes it. She knows its my cake and would far rather eat her own. Also, if she is cakeless....she'd not get better.

I agree about a "business meeting" - my plan was to wait until it has been 1 month (17th of the month) and then say "ok, I assume you dont want that coffee.....but there is stuff we HAVE to discuss so when can we meet formally"

Or words to that effect. I just feel, if she can go a month without a word.....we are screwed anyway.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

ahhhhh....there is a slight problem I have discovered.

Last friday she went quiet after the coffee text.

I have just discovered (because my lad brought the ipad with him today) that it had been used to access my email on friday (possibly)

No emails were opened but she MAY (although very out of character) seen that I had emails from match.com......IF that happened, she may a bit "screw him then"?

The reason I had those emails come to me is because, after the name change on FB I was angry and filled out the profile of an account SHE had asked me to set up a couple of months ago when she was in a drunk "see what else you could get" mood (dont ask, she was nuts when drunk)

Anyway, I got a few emails about people seeing my profile - realized that was the last thing I wanted - and deleted the account.

She MAY think I am trying to date though???? This is all a bit unknown...she may not have seen anything? I dont know.


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Lewis, Understood. 

Hang in there. Do what you can. Maybe an individual counselor for you may help. Maybe counseling for you and your kids as you work through this. 

Best,


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

helolover said:


> Lewis, Understood.
> 
> Hang in there. Do what you can. Maybe an individual counselor for you may help. Maybe counseling for you and your kids as you work through this.
> 
> Best,


I am tempted to get an IC.....but my next 2 weeks are going to be ok.

I am flat out busy this week and then the week after is when I plan to contact her if I dont hear anything - so I can focus on something.

After that something will have happened.....one way or the other - then I know what I need (maybe IC...maybe joint MC?)


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Tricky one to deal with....

Just emailed her to say the boys will be back after tonights sleep over at 10.30am and she said "that conflicts with her plans to take the older kid to town and to bring them back at 3pm"

DOnt want a long chat over it but annoyed that she has used a sleep over to get me to have them most of the day!

Sent this:

" I don't want to mess up your plans with Josh so I will change my plans and have them till 3pm.

However, I asked Harve to have a sleep over and having H & G until mid afternoon is a bit different.

This is NOT a big deal (NOT A BIG DEAL) - but something that would be far simpler if you could communicate a little more.

I get you don't know "how to be" but we are not apart because we hate each other. We are apart so we can each get better.

Limited communication will not set us back. It will help us, whatever the future.

Also - Having George struggle to drag stuff of mine to me in a bin bag is not ideal for him.

Asking me to grab some stuff when I come over is a far better way for the kids to see us acting. 

I'd hope you agree?


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Oh well, never did get a response to my email. Just kept the boys until 3pm so she had her day out.

Got an email from my 12 yr old later that night...

"Hi dad. I just spoke to mum and asked how long you two were going to be apart and she said she didnt know yet. SO thats good because she didnt say you wouldnt get back together. So I'm happy now. Goodnight dad xxx"

Breaks my heart.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Not to be a buzz kill but where is she going during these outings ?

The affair angle --> Maybe they don't do the texting thing too much and meet once or twice every week the guy is free ?

Maybe not an affair but keep this in mind. You cannot fix a broken engine by replacing the tires.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

She went shopping with our other son - she just never goes out alone


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

Ok...I crumbled.

I sent her an email today - just saying "hi, pity you havent wanted to catch up...but I understand. Just want you to know I'm doing ok and hope you are too"

It was longer than that but that was the main point....she sent back this:

-------------------
I don't want to catch up right now. I have had a really rough ride and not been out very much.

I've seen my friends lots, which is lovely and appreciated. I have sorted the kids, despite them constantly questioning who is texting me and where I'm going, which has been the shops and oh and the school run.

I would prefer to keep my weekends as mine, and yours as yours. If there needs to be a swap then that's fine and I'm sure it can be changed.

I haven't had my family help either, so I'm getting stuff done on my own.

I have been looking into the house bills and cutting them down.

I'm having to pay £800 to close the gas and electric, and I need to be cautious with money. I will probably have to repay the child benefit too. 

I am also paying off one last credit card. I will manage £1,000, although not yet. 

I'm glad you're feeling better and getting out.

Take care

-------------------

The money reference is because our eldest had asked her if we'd be able to help her get a car.


ANyway - I think I may have over reacted because I fired back with an email that basically said "hang on a minute, dont act like this is all over. I left so you could get better...not give up on us. You need to be trying and a little texting or chatting on the phone now and then is no bad thing"



Now thinking I should have just stayed quiet in the first place!!!!


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

Yup. I've done that. We probably all have. It happens. Just try to be stronger next time.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

I'm sort of feeling like I need to just let her go. Next week it will be a month......I feel like, if I havent heard from her by then I'll just email and say 

"I'm giving up waiting and good luck. And I'll make a start on divorce papers. Let me know if I'm going down the wrong road.... because with no communication all I know is you dont want me in the house, you wont talk to me and you arent saying if we intend to try....so I'm in the dark over here"


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Don't email what you are going to do - just do.

Are you ready to divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

ok.....development!

I called her. I emailed first and said I would so she had the choice to take it or not....she answered!

I know, I know......but just hearing her voice I nearly broke down right there!

Anyway....hour and a half on the phone......she's doing ok. Vary evasive about her feelings for me - I dont think she really knows how she feels - and she has been flat out busy so hasnt had time to sit and ponder.

She isnt drinking - which is great.

She isnt seeing anyone and has no intention of doing so - I belive her.

She isnt ready or wanting to date me....she suggested baby steps. I asked if a call every now and then was ok and she said fine. I know this isnt the normal approach suggested on TAM but she is in recovery and felt I didnt love her enough during our marriage.....so I think staying available to her works.

SHe also suggested we go to our kids basketball awards night next week as a family....sounds good.

So....baby steps. DO you know what, if we dont make it....but were nice to each other and gave it our best shot - I'm happy with that.

I've realised tonight most of my sadness was at how we last parted - our 20 years didnt deserve that ending. Now I can put that to sleep.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

OK.....I've had a night to sleep on this.

She isnt cheating. She hasnt been out since I moved out (alone) - this saturday is her first night out since I went and she is (driving...so not drinking) her best friend to a club. I know my wife, she is not going to hook up with some bloke while sober, with her mate in tow, while we are where we are at.

She doesnt even want to date. Not me, not anyone.

The last couple of years have drained her...she is shot. She hasnt missed me much (if at all) because she has thrown herself into the house and kids. And I'll give her the month to do that and not take it personally.

She says good things - but also worrying stuff....like the kids are not a good enough reason to be together but sad (shes right)....if I asked her right now "do you love me" she wouldnt have a clue.

So...my plan is to call her in a few days to say Hi and VERY gentley explain that where we are right now is "nowhere land" - we are married but dont live together, business partners but dont see each other, share a house loan but split our money. It is ONLY a place to be in while you decide to move towards D or R (in small steps) - so make a choice, and step towards something.

I want her back - but I dont want her back sad. If we could just date and see that would be great. I just dont want to go towards D off the back of such terrible times between us (caused by drink) - that isnt fair on our marriage.


----------



## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

Good luck, Lewis. I really hope you're right about your wife and that things work out for you guys.


----------



## Lewis1973 (May 3, 2013)

lol...me too!

The ONLY niggle I have is that there is a 1% chance she carried on texting with the 27 yr old she hooked up with at NY. There is certainly a 20% chance it was more than the single text that she never responded to.

But she has been in such a state I cant see that she would have....she has had the life drained from her. I wouldnt have been surprised if (given a few more months) she did harm to herself.

Not the type of state to have a chatty text message EA under.

And there are daft things too.....she has annoying pop songs as her text tone - she texts all the time (to mates) while sat with the kids. The kids hassle her about it. If she was having an EA she set the ringer to OFF and be subtle.

Of course, I may be wrong - she could be a complete nut case and lying all the time. But I dont believe I am.


----------

