# Help please!



## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

My husband and I have issues and I have been going to counseling (he will not go), but I am really upset about something that just happened and wonder if I am blowing it out of proportion. He wanted to plan a vacation for a certain week in October. Due to a work commitment I could not go that week. Instead of rescheduling, he decided still go the same week but to ask a male friend to go with him for the first 4 days and then I will go there for the last 4 days when I can get off work (the friend will leave the day I get there). In 12 years of marriage he still does not remember what date my birthday is and usually also forgets our anniversary. Well the week of the vacation is our anniversary and it is one of the days he will be there with his buddy. Am I overly sensitive or am I right to be upset that he scheduled a vacation with his friend on our anniversary??? (I even wonder if I should be upset that he decided to change our vacation into a vacation for him and his friend rather than just rescheduling the entire week to when I could go). Our marriage is in such trouble already that I would have thought he would give our anniversary a little more consideration, but now I wonder if he even realizes what date it is. Advice please! Is he really inconsiderate and self-centered or am I overly sensitive?


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Trooper said:


> My husband and I have issues and I have been going to counseling (he will not go), but I am really upset about something that just happened and wonder if I am blowing it out of proportion. He wanted to plan a vacation for a certain week in October. Due to a work commitment I could not go that week. Instead of rescheduling, he decided still go the same week but to ask a male friend to go with him for the first 4 days and then I will go there for the last 4 days when I can get off work (the friend will leave the day I get there). In 12 years of marriage he still does not remember what date my birthday is and usually also forgets our anniversary. Well the week of the vacation is our anniversary and it is one of the days he will be there with his buddy. Am I overly sensitive or am I right to be upset that he scheduled a vacation with his friend on our anniversary??? (I even wonder if I should be upset that he decided to change our vacation into a vacation for him and his friend rather than just rescheduling the entire week to when I could go). Our marriage is in such trouble already that I would have thought he would give our anniversary a little more consideration, but now I wonder if he even realizes what date it is. Advice please! Is he really inconsiderate and self-centered or am I overly sensitive?


If it were me I'd be just as upset but I'd never let it happen. He should reschedule the vacation and the fact that he doesn't know your anniversary--remind him when you tell him to reschedule the vacation! You could also insist that you have off from work and go instead of the other guy. Is it possible he's angry you can't get off work and invited the other guy to get back at you?


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Hard to tell what he is mad about, the reason I go to counseling is that he is angry all the time. He originally said *we* need counseling and he got the reference to a counselor and when I made the appointment he would not go. He is a control freak and has a terrible temper and I am trying to decide now if I even want to stay in the marriage. This incident really indicates to me how little he cares about me. He was mad I could not get off work, but it is nothing I could control. Just another example of him being mad at me for something I cannot control. I never know why he is actually mad as he pretty much takes his anger out on me for anything. I think I know I should leave the marriage, but I keep trying to make it work, not sure why. The crazy thing is that the meetings I had to attend for work are now rescheduled so I could go for the whole week, but now his friend will be there for the first half. I had asked him to wait to schedule it until I could maybe work things out at the office, but he couldn't wait even 4 or 5 days for me to try to find a solution. I guess I just need support for what I know I have to do. Thanks for your opinion!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

What kind of relationship/friendship does he have with this friend of his? Is this man single & always looking for women, do they go to Bars together, that kind if thing? I would be upset if the friend was like this & had concern that my husband was going to Live it up -checking out women while I am not there. 

Could he not change his vacation ? If it was a matter of >>> he COULD change his vacation plans but didn't - and choose to ask this friend, this would bother me, BUT if it was a matter of he COULDN'T -due to a hardship, couldnt do it cause other guys at work have other scheduled vacation plans (I know it is like this at my husband's work), then I would not be upset about it. Maybe he & his buddy want to do some fishing together or something ??

Maybe he was just as upset that you could not get off when he was able too. 

I would be hurt if my husband totally forgot our Anniversary, but I would never be upset if we just planned something a week later or even a month later -infact , we never celebrate on the very day anyway. 

Just let him know how you feel, not blaming or anything, see how he reacts. He may be just as upset that you could not get off when he did. If this is a common theme, he is always trying to get away with the guys, or if this is a true rarity. That might play on how I would personally react.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Trooper said:


> My husband and I have issues and I have been going to counseling (he will not go), but I am really upset about something that just happened and wonder if I am blowing it out of proportion.
> 
> 
> > My husband won't go either!
> ...


 I'm sorry he forgets your anniversary, but I think if something is important enough to someone, they make a point to remember.....write it down, put it in a calendar on a phone or SOMETHING!
Makes me mad he does this to you!
My husband forgot my birthday (when we were dating) and it's on a holiday (kinda) *Flag Day* and when he called, I just didn't take it. Didn't talk to him for a couple of days....when he asked why...I told him I was out w/some friends for my birthday, he never forgot again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> I am trying to decide now if I even want to stay in the marriage


Tell him this.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks for all the input ladies! The friend of his is single, but not really a party guy, although I do wonder because he just recently got divorced. I have wondered about my husband's fidelity in the past, nothing for sure, just a feeling I have sometimes. He has a lot of friends who are the cheating type, but this one guy is not as far as I know, but being newly single I am now wondering if this is a guys out at the bar trip and he did plan it. He actually could have taken a different week off work, he just insisted on this one because that is what we originally planned. It seems to me he is just being inflexible and demanding his way, like he always does. And the comment about forgetting days, I agree, if it is important then you make a point to remember it. The fact that he still forgets my birthday after we have been together a total of 16 years and he usually also forgets our anniversary does probably mean these dates are not important to him. Considering all the problems we are having I would think he might try a little harder. I guess the fact that he isn't says a lot. Thanks for all your help.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Even before I read your second post in this thread, I was thinking "he's acting like a passive-aggressive A**Hole. "Not remembering" birthdays and anniversaries--when he knows they are important to you, is simply a way of punishing you. Always being mad at you, scheduling vacations when you've asked for a few days to sort out work and clear your schedule? Totally passive aggressive, I was married to someone like this--note the verb, "was," not "am." Do you even love him, or do you just feel guilty and stay for that reason? If there are no kids involved and guilt is the only thing holding you back, consider that you might be much happier alone than with his pessimistic dead weight always burdening you. OK, talking about my own experience here! Sorry. BUT, if it is at all similar, then I urge you to consider living like this with no improvement for another 12 years. . . Good luck.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Well I was hoping he would change, that I would not have another 12 years like this, but I am beginning to wonder. He knows our marriage is not the greatest, but he won't go to counseling. He went once and told the therapist he would go "to help me with my problems!" She said he did not recognize at all that he was a part of the problem. He never did go again. I am now hanging on by my fingernails, trying to make things work, but my hope/determination is eroding fast. 

I am glad to hear from the last poster that life was better after her divorce. I just really wanted to make this work, but maybe it just never will. 
Thanks!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He never went again because you never forced the issue.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

But I have forced the issue, I told him we have 3 options IMO, stay unhappy as we are, both go to counselor or get divorced. He knows divorce is a realistic option, but says counseling will do no good and he is too busy to go, etc. He always has some reason. We have argued about it over and over. Right now I guess by default we are at option 1, staying as we are. He has a cycle of being nice for a week or two then blowing up over something I don't even understand (I often don't even know why he's mad) then a day or two later he acts like nothing happened. I actually think there are other things in his life that are stressing him out and he has a lot of issues from how he grew up and he won't deal with any of it, so he takes it out on me. However, doesn't matter if I understand if he won't do anything about it. I did go to see a lawyer and am considering option #3, but I am finding it hard to actually take that step.


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## bvmama (Sep 27, 2010)

Trooper,

It is understandable that you are having a difficult time with option 3, you have spent alot of time on this relationship. I think he is angry with himself and maybe his childhood and is taking it out on you. Thus the reluctance to go to counseling.

I am not sticking up for him, please don't think that. He seems to have alot of issues that he needs to work out for himself while you are left in the balance.

I would be very upset if my husband forgot my birthday or our anniversary. It would hurt my feelings greatly. He needs to take the steps to heal and get over what is upsetting him, unfortunately you can't help in that aspect; this is something only he can do when he is ready.

Maybe you should try to do something for yourself.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

I am doing about as much as I can for myself now by going to counseling, it has been over a year now and I am getting stronger. I also had discovered about a year ago that he had a huge video porn collection, that he was "friends" with a 20 year old waitress at Hooters and that he had e-mails with his friends saying what a bi*** I was and talking about the hot girls he had seen at the gym, at work, etc. And now he cannot figure out whey the trust in our marriage is gone - unbelievable. As my therapist said he will not take responsibility for anything so marriage is probably doomed unless he admits he has issues and tries to resolve them. So I am left with option 3, but struggling even with all the crap because I do love him, despite all the issues I am dealing with. He is right, I have lost trust, he honestly doesn't understand why, or so he says and that shocks me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Trooper said:


> But I have forced the issue, I told him we have 3 options IMO, stay unhappy as we are, both go to counselor or get divorced. He knows divorce is a realistic option, but says counseling will do no good and he is too busy to go, etc. He always has some reason. We have argued about it over and over. Right now I guess by default we are at option 1, staying as we are.


That's not forcing the issue. That's bringing UP the issue. 

He KNOWS you'll never do #3 so he doesn't care how many times you bring it up. See, you yourself say you're back at #1. Why should he care what you want?

Forcing the issue is packing his suitcase and telling him to get out, you're done. 

THEN see what he does.


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## Tootsiepop (Sep 7, 2009)

Oh sweetie, please take care of yourself! I am so happy you are going to counseling. You need to come to the realization that you deserve better! In the meantime, focus more on yourself...your job, your friends, your personal interests, hobbies, gym, etc. etc. After 12 yrs. it sounds like you have become codependent and all your focus is on him and your problems in the marriage. YOU count!

He is inconsiderate and thoughtless not to mention controlling. His behavior about your vacation and forgetting your Anniversary are pretty much just more symptoms of your very real deeper issues. (You are absolutely not being too sensitive!) 

You can't change him!! All you can do is change YOU. No more begging and pleading and making excuses and justifications. Don't let him manipulate you and spin crazy stories and make you doubt yourself. Do not allow this behavior to continue ...and only you can stop it! I know divorce is a sad option, but a marriage takes two and right now there's only one of you in it.

Best of luck to you.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Tootsiepop - I didn't say all that, but you sure seem to understand what is going on, not trying to pry, but have you had similiar experience? He does manipulate and spin crazy stories unless he is caught red handed, then he tells me he did nothing wrong and tries to justify his behavior. And you are right, I am the one doing the begging and pleading - sounds pretty ridiculous so why do I do it? I guess that is why I am in therapy. Turnera is right, I am not forcing the issue. But I guess that is why I am in counseling, trying to figure out why in the heck I put up with this crap.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's a good way to set - and keep - a boundary. 

Envision your perfect life, as if you had never met your husband. What would it look like? What would you be doing? Where would you be living? What are your hobbies? Who are your friends? What are your goals?

Now relate that to your own life. How can you get there? Will he go with you to that place? Will he do the part you need your partner to do in that place? 

If he won't, then you know you need to stop putting up with his crap and go out and seek a life that allows you to live YOUR life, not just the one as his appendage.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Tootsiepop - do you know us? Just kidding but your comments are right on, especially the part about being controlling, that is probably my biggest issue with him. I think I let myself fall into this routine, I honestly was nothing like this when I met him. I think it's partly a function of getting older (I seemed to have a lot more spine in my 20s!) and partly that I am codependent now. Not sure exactly when it all happened, but I appreciate the kind words very much. 
Thanks for the encouragement.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Tunera - I am not even sure what my ideal life would be. About 2 years ago I lost my job of almost 20 years (downsizing) and have worked part time and contract work since then so financial considerations are also part of the picture - unfortunately. I think I need the counseling to figure out just what I really want before I make any decisions. My life has changed so drastically in the last two years making my personal situation that much more difficult. I honestly do not know what I want to do right now.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Trooper, can I ask about your sex life with your husband? Based on the tone of this thread, I'd guess it was not too active. Is that right?

--

This feels a bit like a hen party, ganging up on the no good, inconsiderate, lout husband. How is complaining about him here any different then the b*tch comment he made to his friends?

I'm guessing there are unmet needs on both sides. 

Perhaps he was upset about the vacation because he tried to do something nice and got shot down for it, so he thought 'f*ck it, I'll have fun anyway.' Perhaps he doesn't want to go to counseling because he feels rejected by you, so he doesn't see the point in subjecting himself to being ganged up on by you and a counselor. (Is your counselor a woman? Guys are at a distinct biological disavantage when communicating about feelings, so it's understandable he may not want to be put in a position to feel bad. Especially if his ego is in a low ebb.)

As for the birthday and anniversary, it could be a legitimate oversight. If so, then is it hurtful to you? Yes. Is it DELIBERATELY hurtful to you? No.

Not trying to defend him, just presenting another side to this.

This thread right now seems like bunch of cheering from strangers to divorce the bastard, by people who don't have to deal with the consequences of it. Are you really interested in solutions, or just want support for a decision you've already made?


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

PS: Plus stuff like this:



sisters359 said:


> Even before I read your second post in this thread, I was thinking "he's acting like a passive-aggressive A**Hole. "Not remembering" birthdays and anniversaries--when he knows they are important to you, is simply a way of punishing you. Always being mad at you, scheduling vacations when you've asked for a few days to sort out work and clear your schedule? Totally passive aggressive, I was married to someone like this--note the verb, "was," not "am." Do you even love him, or do you just feel guilty and stay for that reason? If there are no kids involved and guilt is the only thing holding you back, consider that you might be much happier alone than with his pessimistic dead weight always burdening you. OK, talking about my own experience here! Sorry. BUT, if it is at all similar, then I urge you to consider living like this with no improvement for another 12 years. . . Good luck.


... is not helpful. 

Sisters, you don't even know this woman. You know one paragraph of information on her written during a moment of anger, that is her perception of a conflict with her husband, and you are nudging her to divorce him? Are you nuts?

People aren't that disposable. At least not in my world.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Seeking Sanity - I can see how it looks like that, but I am truly seeking advice. We do have sex, another thing I did not mention is that he takes steroids and hgh and because of all this he has a VERY high sex drive. He is middle aged and would have sex at least once a day if he had his way. My sex drive is not up there because I don't take any artificial hormones, but we still have sex 3-5 times per week. 

As far as the birthdays and anniversaries, he has "forgotten" both of them almost every year (12 anniversaries and 16 birthdays since I have known him). 

Regarding the counselor, mine is a woman but I got several referrals for men and also suggested he is free to get his own referrals. It is ironic but the woman I go to was originally suggested to him by a male friend of his. He and his wife went to her and thought she was great. The counseling was not my idea originally, it was his. He said we should go, got the referral from his friend and then had me make the appointment. However, he never went in the entire year I have been going, except for one time to tell the therapist that the problems were mainly mine and he would help me with my problems. He did not think he contributed any problems to the marriage. 

He is also verbally abusive and has been arrested for road rage in the past. As far as the vacation, he knows I had to work or lose the job (it is contract work). So I do not think I am ganging up on him, I just feel that I get no respect and he tries to control me and I need to figure out if we can both voice our concerns and work on them. I honestly think the more I put this in writing that the less chance we have of making it, but before I do anything as serious as divorce I want to try to do everything I can to make it work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you done any reading about boundaries?


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Turnera - no I have not. I think I have read every recent self-help book about marriage (at his urging, but he will not read them), but not about boundaries. Do you have any suggested books? 

Thanks.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Okay Trooper, thanks for the response. Can you explain the steroids and hgh more. Is he into weight training, or is there a medical reason for these drugs?

Given his controlling nature, aggression, etc, - those all seem like "testosterone" behaviours. Is it possible the steroid use is contributing?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Seeking Sanity - he does not want to get old or look old and so he found this "clinic" where he gets the drugs. He says it is legal, but I found a subpoena in his brief case (yes I snooped) for his pharmacy records as the attorney general of that state was investigating the pharmacy and had closed it down. He has never seen a doctor at the clinic, but is prescribed 3 types of pills and one intravenous drug and topical testosterone all to enhance his muscle size, yes he does work out about 4 times a week and is huge. He recently started the hgh to look better as a friend said it would help stop aging (also intravenous drug). So it is to build bigger muscles, look youthful and prevent aging. 

I did talk to my therapist and the psychiatrist at the facility I go to and they did say he could have "roid rage." I thought that was just a myth, but they said it is real. I am absolutely sure it does contribute to his anger and controlling nature, but he refuses to stop. I noticed his anger increase about 5 or 6 years ago, but did not find out about his steroid use until I found the drugs in his drawer about 2 years ago. Just one more secret he kept. 

Sorry to sound like a "hen party" again, but the more I write I do not feel like I am ganging up on him. It is helping me to see all this in writing, when I read my posts I think what nut would stay with this man, and I am beginning to realize maybe I am crazy to still be in this marriage after all that has happened recently and after finding out some of the secrets he has as I suspect I have only seen the tip of the iceberg.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I had to take steroids once for a week for a medical reason, and I have never been so angry and unsettled as I was that week. It was awful!


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I hear you Trooper. It does sound like it's a mixture of mid-life angst, drug side-effects, and a general unwillingness to look under the hood. At this point, pity may be a more suitable emotion then anger at him. From what you describe, he's an angry man in denial about the state of his life, and unwilling to do things to build intimacy with you. 

What happens next? If you tell him that you are unhappy and want to separate, and he somehow gets the message, are you open to having him prove himself to you? Or are you done?

As an aside, men tend not to notice the "signs" of discontent from women. (It's biological, so no judgments from women saying they should get it, please. You should be able to pee standing up.) Especially unemotional men. They need direct language. So saying "I'm unhappy" isn't really enough to get through to him. Saying "I am unhappy and I am considering divorcing you" is what he needs to hear.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Seeking Sanity - I am open to staying if he does some looking under the hood as you put it (love the terminology!). I think he has a lot of unresolved issues from a pretty bad childhood and I get the brunt of that unresolved anger. He never really knew any other way for a marriage to be based on how his parents are. The problem is that I think I have tried to make myself heard over and over and he just buries his head in the sand. The more direct I am the more he blows up and runs the other way. I just don't know how to get through to him. He thinks if we don't argue for a week or so then everything is great and if I try to bring up an issue during one of these "good" periods he gets mad at me for trying to ruin things when we are getting along. But the problems are still there, lurking under the surface just waiting to explode again. He doesn't seem to get the fact that they don't just go away on their own.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I can tell that you love him and desperately want this to work. I'd suggest you are very direct. "I am considering divorcing you, even though I love you, because I don't feel heard, I don't see this relationship getting better, etc..." He needs to expereince a crisis to catalyze a change in behavior. 

In phsycological terms - people are more motivated by fear of loss than by benefit of gain. So in other words, he needs to fear losing you to have any hope of change. He's okay with how things are and doesn't get that you aren't.

If you don't push the issue, eventually you will run out of love for him, and truly be gone from the relationship.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree.

You may try printing out your thread and telling him you're so desperate to save your marriage you've resorted to this.


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## Trooper (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks ladies. I agree I do need to be more direct. I think all along I have feared the consequences of being more direct, afraid he will rather leave than have to face the issues and make any changes. But if I don't force the issue then I know there is no hope of change.


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