# Old Question, Desperate for New Answers



## riverwild (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm sure this has been discussed on here many, many times. However like most threads on here I'm desperate and looking for help directly for problem and at my wits end.

I have been married for 6 years and together for 9. We have one son who is 5. Prior to our marriage my wife was loving, warm, enjoyed physical attention such as kisses, gentle touch, or just plain niceness. It's seems since almost the day we got married a switch went off and it all changed. If I even go in for a hug or a peck I get the look from her that tells me I'm bothering her. She no longer is affectionate with me and has no interest at all in intimacy. It's not uncommon for us to go months without physical contact. She hasn't come on to me in years, yes years. I'm the only one driving this train. It's turned me into an emotional roller coaster that only perpetuates the problem. 

After a few months of being ignored I finally blow up and she'll say she'll make an effort, which she does but only for a few days until she feels the coast is clear at which time she goes back to being distant. I've tried to talk to her a hundred times (after 6 years of marriage this might actually be an accurate number) about it to which I always receive the same responses. It's not you it's me, it's too hot, it's too cold, it's too early it's too late...you get the idea. I've tried being shy and coy, aggressive and "manly", I've tried to give her space, I've tried reverse psychology, nothing works.

We have been to counseling and she even didn't take marriage counseling seriously. I even threatened with the D word at one point to no avail. What the hell am I supposed to do? We are both happily self employed. We are not rich, but do ok. We have an amazing son, wonderful families, and life overall is good. I do 90% of the dishes, cleaning, washing, taking care of our son, I buy flowers for no reason other than to be nice and leave silly love notes randomly throughout the year for fun. I'm not perfect but I address the issues she has and try to better myself as a husband. What the hell else can I do? Intimacy, Sex, and affection in general is important to me. Without it, we are just roommates. If I wanted a roommate I wouldn't have gotten married. I know she loves me and loves our son. She is not cheating and I have not cheated. 

I have friends who share the same issue, both men and women and have friends who still are madly in love with each other. 

At the end of the day, it all has become exhausting and feels forced when she rarely does show affection. I don't want it forced. I want her to want me as much as I want her.

Am I asking too much? Or is this typical for marriage?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

No, you are not asking too much and no, this is not typical for marriage.

What is she contributing to your marriage? Why is it you want to remain married to her? (I assume you do love her like you did before she changed - but why other than love?)

I don't get these women. I don't understand why these women are doing this stuff. By nature women are supposed to be more nurturing and affectionate than men. 

I would say its likely resentment of some sort that has caused an emotional baracade - but who knows for sure (except her.)


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

riverwild said:


> We have been to counseling and she even didn't take marriage counseling seriously. ... I know she loves me


I'm having a very hard time understanding how both these could be true at the same time. 

It's more likely that either she has been taking marriage counseling seriously, or that she doesn't love you. Take your pick - which one do you think is more likely?


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Welcome to the club, brother. Not a fun club to be a member of either. 

My story is nearly identical to yours, but mine is stretched out over 30 years of being together, not just 9. I really can't complain about the first 20 yrs. but the last 4 to 6 have been a challenge.

I tried turning myself into the maid, housekeeper, babysitter, and gardener thinking that she would respond in kind in the bedroom, but that didn't happen. All it did was create a new perception of the domestic workload for her. Don't do it.

I am struggling with the same issues you are. 
The only advice I can offer is what I am trying now. It's back to the gym to reclaim my body and hopefully with it, my confidence and own genuine happiness. That's good enough for me if that's all I get out of my plan. It would just be the icing on the cake if I could also recapture the admiration and lust my wife use to be attracted too. 

Also, don't judge your marital relationship against your friends outwardly happy appearance. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. They may seem like two lovebirds now, but a month from now you may hear that they are filing for divorce. 

Good luck to you.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

She doesn't love you, becuase love is a verb. And she is not doing anything to love you.

This is something that is common in marriage, not necessarily the majority but certainly common.

You'll never put thougths in her head, but you can improve the situation.

Create an environment where a woman would or should feel sexual.
Stop doing 90% of the housework and anything related to trying to get her to have sex with you.
Embrace your own sexuality as a major need in your marriage
Gain confidence to divorce your wife if you ever feel you need to.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

riverwild said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed on here many, many times. However like most threads on here I'm desperate and looking for help directly for problem and at my wits end.
> 
> I have been married for 6 years and together for 9. We have one son who is 5. Prior to our marriage my wife was loving, warm, enjoyed physical attention such as kisses, gentle touch, or just plain niceness. It's seems since almost the day we got married a switch went off and it all changed. If I even go in for a hug or a peck I get the look from her that tells me I'm bothering her. She no longer is affectionate with me and has no interest at all in intimacy. It's not uncommon for us to go months without physical contact. She hasn't come on to me in years, yes years. I'm the only one driving this train. It's turned me into an emotional roller coaster that only perpetuates the problem.
> 
> After a few months of being ignored I finally blow up and she'll say she'll make an effort, which she does but only for a few days until she feels the coast is clear at which time she goes back to being distant. I've tried to talk to her a hundred times (after 6 years of marriage this might actually be an accurate number) about it to which I always receive the same responses. It's not you it's me, it's too hot, it's too cold, it's too early it's too late...you get the idea. I've tried being shy and coy, aggressive and "manly", I've tried to give her space, I've tried reverse psychology, nothing works.


Sounds like she has a wall up, you've been "roommated" or both. She could have things going on outside the house, and you have been compartamentalized to be non-human. 



riverwild said:


> We have been to counseling and she even didn't take marriage counseling seriously. I even threatened with the D word at one point to no avail. What the hell am I supposed to do? We are both happily self employed. We are not rich, but do ok. We have an amazing son, wonderful families, and life overall is good. I do 90% of the dishes, cleaning, washing, taking care of our son, I buy flowers for no reason other than to be nice and leave silly love notes randomly throughout the year for fun. I'm not perfect but I address the issues she has and try to better myself as a husband. What the hell else can I do? Intimacy, Sex, and affection in general is important to me. Without it, we are just roommates. If I wanted a roommate I wouldn't have gotten married. I know she loves me and loves our son. She is not cheating and I have not cheated.


If she loves you, why would she starve you of affection and intimacy?



riverwild said:


> I have friends who share the same issue, both men and women and have friends who still are madly in love with each other.
> 
> At the end of the day, it all has become exhausting and feels forced when she rarely does show affection. I don't want it forced. I want her to want me as much as I want her.
> 
> Am I asking too much? Or is this typical for marriage?


Have you tried stop "wanting" her and just go about doing your thing outside of her? We both know it could go on forever if you get so into your outside activities that you forget about wanting affections from your spouse.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Hicks said:


> She doesn't love you, becuase love is a verb. And she is not doing anything to love you.
> 
> This is something that is common in marriage, not necessarily the majority but certainly common.
> 
> ...


The basics are to make the marriage unacceptable and get your wife out of her comfort zone and make her realize she is dropping the proverbial ball.

Not a quick fix but if you "nag" her enough little by little she starts to see the light that its better to meet in the middle rather than constantly operating on her no-love island.

The reason most marriages don't repair is in the case of Men they do things that are counterproductive.

Its simple you make the current situation unacceptable and the spouse will move towards acceptable.
Over time.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

No it not asking too much and no its not typical but not uncommon either. What in the world is she bringiwqng to the marriage and how can you possibly feel she loves you? No affections, no sex, 10 percent of the house work and childcare. 

Hel! I've been kind of upset my husband for the last 3 days and he's gotten sex, home cook meal, and clean underwear why - because it is my pleasure to care for my H because I Love him. So no your situation you are certainly not asking too much. You deserve that. 

So what are you going to do? It's obvious talking about it going to counseling and threatening divorce have not change anything. What's left?


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## saadrvb (Jul 10, 2013)

The only advice I can offer is what I am trying now. It's back to the gym to reclaim my body and hopefully with it, my confidence and own genuine happiness.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

saadrvb said:


> The only advice I can offer is what I am trying now. It's back to the gym to reclaim my body and hopefully with it, my confidence and own genuine happiness.


I like your advice, especially since I posted it earlier, word for word. :iagree:


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

If you continue to take responsibility for this and view this as a thing "you" can fix, you'll go crazy. F*ck the gym, unless you want to go to the gym. F*ck being more attentive/less attentive, or any other behaviour designed to get her to want sex. It's a futile, pointless, miserable path.

Find things you like doing. Get a life. Get happy regardless of her. If sex is that important, tell her you're done. It's simple but not easy.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Oh dear!!!!

My wife and I went through a thin on the ground patch, once a week if I was lucky 

I tried some of that palaver and it did nothing to encourage her, tried to be more attentive and actually got pizzed with it right quick, so after two or three months of thin on the ground I went back to being me and started planning and spending money on my Land Rover, after two weeks of me doing nothing in the house, and I mean nothing!!!! Example; no washing up, no laundry, no dusting, no vacuuming, no sweeping, mopping, or basically anything, I wouldn't cook, would finish work come in and ask what was for dinner and if she said I haven't cooked then off to the chipper or kebab/pizza parlor, turned it on her very hard and she got very narky for it, turned her into house maid and cook, laundry girl etc,. I then proceeded to spend about £2000 on my Land Rover and spent every minute working on it.

And just over two weeks, she was standing over the top of me whilst I was changing the brake pads and wanting to talk about things.

I turned her into room mate and maid, oh and BTW I was pretty much ready to carry on in that fashion until she talked or moved out, it was her choice, she created the situation we were in so she needed to come to me to fix it.

Trust me it would not have amounted to years after having a very shizzy first marriage where I really was unhappy.

So choices are, turn it round on her or start monitoring and possibly you will find out who she is lavishing her lust on?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> The basics are to make the marriage unacceptable and get your wife out of her comfort zone and make her realize she is dropping the proverbial ball.
> 
> Not a quick fix but if you "nag" her enough little by little she starts to see the light that its better to meet in the middle rather than constantly operating on her no-love island.
> 
> ...


I actually agree with you T2. Great post.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> So choices are, turn it round on her or start monitoring and possibly you will find out who she is lavishing her lust on?


"Found out who she is lavishing her lust on..."... Good stuff. Once you find this, it will all make sense.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Your wife has reached the marital state of "contentment" She is perfectly happy to coast along with the status quo....She has absolutely no reason to change.....Given this, *can you expect change?*

I will toss you a crumb....Get the book "The 5 Love Languages, and read it as a couple....It is about fulfilling each partners emotional needs....It will show your wife "WHY" you need touch, and will tell you what she needs.....You can get it for ten bucks on ebay, and read it in a weekend. I found it very helpful


Good luck
the woodchuck


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> If you continue to take responsibility for this and view this as a thing "you" can fix, you'll go crazy. F*ck the gym, unless you want to go to the gym. F*ck being more attentive/less attentive, or any other behaviour designed to get her to want sex. It's a futile, pointless, miserable path.
> 
> Find things you like doing. Get a life. Get happy regardless of her. If sex is that important, tell her you're done. It's simple but not easy.


Totally :iagree:

Do what you want for YOU assume nothing you do will impress your wife... it is her issue and her demons she needs to deal with on her own.

You simply do different things that you actually want to do irregardless of whether your wife will be swayed.

Gym stinks... I just go for walks and hikes because I enjoy getting outside. Not being around other trying desperately to feel better about themselves (or impress someone) and paying a fee to do it.

You only have so many heartbeats.

Do things for you when you want... or do nothing if you want. Do whatever floats your boat during the unacceptable sex impasse.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

wranglerman said:


> Oh dear!!!!
> 
> My wife and I went through a thin on the ground patch, once a week if I was lucky
> 
> ...


I can not agree more with what you did. How does doing all of the work around the house going to make her want to be intimate with you. I never get why men do this it never worked for me.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Maybe you didn't read that I was going to the gym to help reclaim my body and self-confidence. The return to sex would just be icing on the cake. 

I started back to the gym because before I got married, I was a competitive bodybuilder. I honestly like going to the gym, and feeling my body improve and get stronger. Nothing wrong with that. 

Plus, my girlfriend then, and now wife, looked at me completely different when I was stretching out my shirt sleeves, rather than the waistband on my pants.

Sex was different back then, and a he!l of a lot better. 
My girlfriend/wife would run her hands all over my tanned arms, shoulders, back and chest during sex and even while sitting on the couch together. She would stick her hand in my shirt and loved rubbing my pecs, and abs. 

She complimented me on my body then, in bed and out of bed. She was engaged in the act of sex more, wanted it more, and loved undressing me. He!l, that hasn't happened in decades.

I was stronger, had more stamina and staying power. I could pick her up, throw her over my shoulder and carry her upstairs to the bedroom, with her giggling all the way. 
I think my wife would be more inclined in offering herself up to me more if I could bring something back into the mix that she use to really enjoy. 

I think women can be just as visually stimulated as men. I know my wife can be. I don't recall seeing to many Chippendale dancers with love handles, a spare tire, and man boobs. 

IMHO, I think a lot of men who are in near sexless marriages have suffered big hits to their self-esteem and confidence.
I only mentioned gong to the gym since exercise is a known self-esteem booster, and will enhance your mood in general. The benefits of adding more muscle is also known to up your T levels as well. Just better all around, physically and mentally.

If you don't like the gym or exercise, I agree, don't do it. Find another hobby. But I never recall a man turning his sex life around by playing more golf, joining a bowling league, or hanging out with his buddies more often.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Batman4691 said:


> Maybe you didn't read that I was going to the gym to help reclaim my body and self-confidence. The return to sex would just be icing on the cake.
> 
> I started back to the gym because before I got married, I was a competitive bodybuilder. I honestly like going to the gym, and feeling my body improve and get stronger. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> ...


Of course "some' women are turned on by bobo. 

If you are doing it FOR YOURSELF fine however you know deep down its trying to get her to have sex... which is fine but don't pretend.

As long as you don't look like hell the visual is fine. She married you because she liked the way you look. What she is waiting for is to emotionally connect an that an be done by a variety of methods.... 

Think of it this way your wife doesn't have time for people in her life that don't make her feel good. Problem is she happens to be married to you.

That's the real issue.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Of course "some' women are turned on by bobo.
> 
> If you are doing it FOR YOURSELF fine however you know deep down its trying to get her to have sex... which is fine but don't pretend.
> 
> ...


Who's pretending? I loved being in shape and hitting the gym well before meeting my wife. 

I was simply pointing out the MANY benefits of exercise, one of which is that women are more likely to be attracted to someone that is athletic than Mr. Couch Potato.

True, woman are looking to connect emotionally by a variety of methods. However, like I stated before, I do not recall putting in more hours on the golf course, or spending more time with your buddies conducive to connecting with the wife emotionally.

My wife being married to me is not a problem or "issue". Where in the he!l do you come up with that crap?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Batman4691 said:


> Who's pretending? I loved being in shape and hitting the gym well before meeting my wife.
> 
> I was simply pointing out the MANY benefits of exercise, one of which is that women are more likely to be attracted to someone that is athletic than Mr. Couch Potato.
> 
> ...


In other words since you are married she has to deal with you even though you make her unhappy and the last thing she wants to do is have you inside her.

So low/no sex is a result of that.

it is an issue you and her need to overcome.Pretty sure you could be Adonis or Hercules but if you don't address the underlying unhappiness she hides and does not ever talk to you about.....you will remain sexless and frustrated.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> In other words since you are married she has to deal with you even though *you make her unhappy *and the last thing she wants to do is have you inside her.
> 
> So low/no sex is a result of that.
> 
> it is an issue you and her need to overcome.Pretty sure you could be Adonis or Hercules but if you don't address the underlying unhappiness she hides and does not ever talk to you about.....you will remain sexless and frustrated.


Trying2figureitout,

I make her unhappy?

Oh, I get it now. It's all my fault right? It's always the man's fault if something is off in the bedroom.

I gave my advice to the OP to try doing something to make him feel better about himself, physically, and mentally, and I stand by it. I did not say he has to turn himself into Mr. Universe for his wife to take notice. 

This isn't my thread, and I apologize to the OP, so I will refrain from hijacking it any further.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

T2,

Are you actually having sex now?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Batman4691 said:


> Trying2figureitout,
> 
> I make her unhappy?
> 
> ...


T2 does have a blog link in his sig to discuss all of this, if we are interested in talking about his plan. 

I've gone off on T2 as well, thread jacked. He means well. It's a long story. I do hope the best for him.

And I hope things go well for you Batman. Love your username. 

My opinion, as a woman, yeah the muscles are a huge turn on for me. Just sayin'.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Batman4691 said:


> Trying2figureitout,
> 
> I make her unhappy?
> 
> Oh, I get it now. It's all my fault right? It's always the man's fault if something is off in the bedroom.


Batman,

As others have pointed out, T2FIO has personal issues that he projects into many threads. He's been in a sexless marriage for 3 or 4 years now. His wife is almost certainly having a physical affair with another man. But he can't accept that, so he assumes that it is all his fault. If he caused it, he can fix it. And he projects that blame outward onto others.

So, about every 6 months, he comes onto the boards and announces that he has cracked the mystery that is a woman who withholds sex from her husband, and he now has a foolproof PLAN (all caps) for solving the issue. This leads to an enormous thread jack and he is eventually temporarily banned. Needless to say, he hasn't gotten his sexual frequency back up to normal yet.

Now, in some respects, he's right. Many times, men can turn their wives' libidos back towards them. By self-improvement, including physical fitness, men can become more attractive and get their wives' attention. But it's not a fool proof method and it certainly doesn't focus only on one thing like emotions.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Batman,
> 
> As others have pointed out, T2FIO has personal issues that he projects into many threads. He's been in a sexless marriage for 3 or 4 years now. His wife is almost certainly having a physical affair with another man. But he can't accept that, so he assumes that it is all his fault. If he caused it, he can fix it. And he projects that blame outward onto others.
> 
> ...


To correct you I have not said one word about my own plan... I gave advice I apologize that you all feel the need to say I have issues. Or that I have some evil intent other than giving advice. Perhaps my response to batman was off original topic from the OP but all discussion can be beneficial.

OP I apologize if you feel this is not beneficial to your original question.

And yes most wives who withhold are unhappy with their husbands deep down ..that is basic. And yes the husband most certainly had a hand in it over the years. And yes a positive demeanor rather than a grumpy one has a better chance of success.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> To correct you I have not said one word about my own plan... I gave advice I apologize that you all feel the need to say I have issues. Or that I have some evil intent other than giving advice.


T2, you sig says a lot of it. You don't want to discuss what your advice is about. 

Advice is about learning. A different point of view is necessary, sometimes. But so is understanding that it's personal, and different for many people. One size fits all is hard to manage. One can only speak of what worked for them.

The conflicts are that you disagree with everyone else, your plan is the correct one to follow. But everyone does not see "results" from your unique plan.

That's what we are all looking for. What worked. What didn't work. Not judgement on our choices in life. Peace.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> I can not agree more with what you did. How does doing all of the work around the house going to make her want to be intimate with you. I never get why men do this it never worked for me.


A man did this, to tell his woman that he doesn't expect her to do everything, and he is happy to do his part.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> And yes most wives who withhold are unhappy with their husbands deep down ..that is basic. And yes the husband most certainly had a hand in it over the years.


I don't think that accurately portrays the situation. I don't doubt many refusers are unhappy. But what seems to be the typical scenario is the wives are unhappy about _something_ and the husbands are convenient scapegoats. The issue is not something the husband can impact and might not have anything to do with him at all.

How many women are just simply LD and find the sex itself the be the problem, and the guy is blamed simply because he wants it? Or a woman has an abuse history and withholds from that? Or she has a tough day at work, is touched out from needy children, is unhappy with her career, etc.? Or, she chose someone to whom she was not sexually attracted because she wanted a good economic life, social status, etc.?

I'd say (based on the stories I see here) that such situations are at least as common (and probably more so) than situations where the guy is responsible for the lack of sex.

Consider this also: Nobody is perfect (not remotely), so every wife has at least a few offences she could hold over her husband's head. So, how it is that some wives manage to have good (if not great) sex lives and some can't manage it? It's mostly internal to the refuser.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

deejov said:


> T2, you sig says a lot of it. You don't want to discuss what your advice is about.
> 
> Advice is about learning. A different point of view is necessary, sometimes. But so is understanding that it's personal, and different for many people. One size fits all is hard to manage. One can only speak of what worked for them.
> 
> ...


Rephrase that.... I don't disagree with everyone else..

My view does change over time based on discussion here and research so I do consider all views... living in the situation LIVE gives me good insight into the challenges and solutions to this issue.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Rephrase that.... I don't disagree with everyone else..
> 
> My view does change over time based on discussion here and research so I do consider all views... living in the situation LIVE gives me good insight into the challenges and solutions to this issue.


Everyone on this board is also living in the situation, or lived in the situation. Until your plan works, you have no right to claim that you even have a plan. Cause everyone here has a plan, we are just looking for one that works...translation: a plan from someone having a happy, fulfilling sex life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

techmom said:


> Everyone on this board is also living in the situation, or lived in the situation. Until your plan works, you have no right to claim that you even have a plan. Cause everyone here has a plan, we are just looking for one that works...translation: a plan from someone having a happy, fulfilling sex life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So Kennedy couldn't claim a moon landing plan until its done??

Besides I have said nothing about my plan on this thread just giving advice.


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