# Can anyone here shoot a handgun?



## Woodchuck

I have always considered shooting a handgun to be one of the skills every man should have...

Anyone with normal hand eye co-ordination and eyesight should be able to become a pretty fair shooter within 1,000 rounds...

Every man who can't shoot a pistol secretly admires the man who can...


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## MountainRunner

Woodchuck said:


> ...Every man who can't shoot a pistol secretly admires the man who can...


LMAO!!! Puhleeze...really? Personally I think any man who hides behind a handgun is a coward.


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## tech-novelist

The first time I ever shot a handgun was when I visited a highly knowledgeable and proficient friend in Colorado. He said I was a natural, pre-flinching as though I had been trained.
I have also put 5 shots into about an 8-inch circle at 300 yards with a .270. I know that is laughable to the really good shots, but I thought it was pretty good for a beginner.


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## thebirdman

Oh yes. Posses a CCL as well. Virtually never carry one on me though.


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## Woodchuck

MountainRunner said:


> LMAO!!! Puhleeze...really? Personally I think any man who hides behind a handgun is a coward.


That's 1 No...MountainRunner can't shoot

I have never shot anyone, but I do eat meat, and have shot all kinds of small game with a handgun....It takes a great deal of concentration and discipline...


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## MountainRunner

Woodchuck said:


> That's 1 No...MountainRunner can't shoot


Qualified "Expert" in the US Army and have owned a Browning 9mm and a Smith & Wesson 38

And I still stand by my statement.


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## sixty-eight

I know this was probably directed at men (men's clubhouse), but i have my ccl and have a glock 19. We used to go to the range/skeet shooting a lot together, it's a lot of fun.


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## Woodchuck

technovelist said:


> The first time I ever shot a handgun was when I visited a highly knowledgeable and proficient friend in Colorado. He said I was a natural, pre-flinching as though I had been trained.
> I have also put 5 shots into about an 8-inch circle at 300 yards with a .270. I know that is laughable to the really good shots, but I thought it was pretty good for a beginner.


Your group is totally dependent on the inherent accuracy of the firearm. Many rifles aren't capable of holding better than 8" at 300 yards....You may have shot the absolutely best group that rifle was capable of...

I have always considered shooting to be similar too Zen...It requires that you concentrate, have good muscle control, and control breathing...I always found that a shooting session relaxed me... 

I have gotten to the point where I reload for every center fire firearm I own except for 410, 20 and 16 GA. shotgun...

Right now my favorite rifle is a C.Z. in .22 hornet. A small game round that MIGHT be adequate for up to a coyote at 100 yards...

My favorite handgun is a Ruger Blackhawk .44 Special flat top. It is the most accurate hand gun I have ever shot. I also have a Rossi .44 Special double action as my night stand gun...

I really like single shot rifles. I have a Ruger #1V in 25-06, and a .222 in a Martini action...

Even though I like single shots, I recently bought an AR 15....Just for home security...


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## Woodchuck

sixty-eight said:


> I know this was probably directed at men (men's clubhouse), but i have my ccl and have a glock 19. We used to go to the range/skeet shooting a lot together, it's a lot of fun.


Fantastic...I think everyone should be able to safely handle a firearm....

I'll bet you had someone set you up with proper ear plugs, etc....I hate it when someone takes a new shooter and lets recoil and noise intimidate them...

I started a 9 yo out shooting a .44 with light loads. He was so proud of himself...:smile2:


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## ExiledBayStater

I can hit decent groups with a J-frame revolver, or I can pick up a full size pistol and hit the center of the target at indoor range distances.

I never shot a gun until I was over 30. I wouldn't say I admired people just for being able to shoot, unless they had really worked at it and were very very good at it.

I'm perplexed. If most anyone can get to be a decent shooter with 1000 rounds, what is there to admire?


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## Woodchuck

MountainRunner said:


> Qualified "Expert" in the US Army and have owned a Browning 9mm and a Smith & Wesson 38
> 
> And I still stand by my statement.


Good, was the 9MM a hi power?

A gun is just a tool. I don't call anyone a coward for driving nails with a hammer instead of his fist....or head...


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## sapientia

I don't own a handgun but I'm a more than decent shot with a rifle.

Oh, wait.. but how is that possible b/c we ban guns in Canada (not).


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## ExiledBayStater

Woodchuck said:


> Fantastic...I think everyone should be able to safely handle a firearm....


Agreed. If nothing else, one never knows when the need will arise to safely unload one.


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## GusPolinski

MountainRunner said:


> LMAO!!! Puhleeze...really? Personally I think any man who hides behind a handgun is a coward.


Precisely what, in your mind, would constitute "hiding behind a handgun"?


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## sapientia

MountainRunner said:


> LMAO!!! Puhleeze...really? Personally I think any man who hides behind a handgun is a coward.





Woodchuck said:


> That's 1 No...MountainRunner can't shoot
> 
> I have never shot anyone, but I do eat meat, and have shot all kinds of small game with a handgun....It takes a great deal of concentration and discipline...





MountainRunner said:


> Qualified "Expert" in the US Army and have owned a Browning 9mm and a Smith & Wesson 38
> 
> And I still stand by my statement.


LOL, well Woodchuck you sure got owned for your assumption.

Nice one, MR. I agree with you, btw. Those folks in the gun thread assume I hate guns too...


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## TeddieG

LOL, Woodchuck, it was always so fun to go pistol shopping with my h. There was a type he was looking for, and then of course he'd pick one for ME to try. He never really said so, but there was a GUY's handgun and a GIRL's handgun. 

But the last time we were at the range, I outshot his azz. With the handguns anyway. He bought an awesome rifle, but we had SO much trouble getting him the right bipod or tripod or whatever. And scopes. Wholly smokes, girls buy lots of shoes, and he buys lots of scopes. But I tried shooting his rifle before we got a bipod, and it was sure wobbly and hard to keep steady. So I guess I understand the need for all the accessories. 

And I got a pair of shoes out of the deal. !!


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## Woodchuck

sapientia said:


> I don't own a handgun but I'm a more than decent shot with a rifle.
> 
> Oh, wait.. but how is that possible b/c we ban guns in Canada (not).


What kind of rifle do you shoot? Do you hunt, or just shoot targets/plink? I hunt, but have probably shot 50 X more ammo at targets and cans...As I said before, every one should be able to handle a gun safely. Learning to shoot is a lot like playing golf, you play against yourself...


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## happy as a clam

Yes, I can shoot a hand gun, and quite well I might add. I have a .40 caliber Glock and this baby is next on my purchase list:

Ruger® Single-Nine® Single-Action Revolver Models


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Woodchuck

TeddieG said:


> LOL, Woodchuck, it was always so fun to go pistol shopping with my h. There was a type he was looking for, and then of course he'd pick one for ME to try. He never really said so, but there was a GUY's handgun and a GIRL's handgun.
> 
> But the last time we were at the range, I outshot his azz. With the handguns anyway. He bought an awesome rifle, but we had SO much trouble getting him the right bipod or tripod or whatever. And scopes. Wholly smokes, girls buy lots of shoes, and he buys lots of scopes. But I tried shooting his rifle before we got a bipod, and it was sure wobbly and hard to keep steady. So I guess I understand the need for all the accessories.
> 
> And I got a pair of shoes out of the deal. !!


Congrats on the shoes. 

I have been immersed in firearms since I was 5, so when I buy a gun, it might be because I read an article about it 50 years ago...Or in the case of a Colt 1911, just because it is such a historical icon...

My 1911 was made by Colt in 1916, for WWI and still shoots very well...

I like long range rifles, and usually shoot them over sand bags...I have a Ruger #1V in 25-06, and a Winchester model 70 in .270 (another icon).

For shooting targets I like single shots, but I have an AR 15 for home defense, along with my 45, and my .44 magnum, and my 2 .44 specials, and...You get the picture habit forming...

I have a nice 200 yard range about 10 miles away, but don't get out as often as I would like......Shoot safe...


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## sapientia

Woodchuck said:


> What kind of rifle do you shoot? Do you hunt, or just shoot targets/plink? I hunt, but have probably shot 50 X more ammo at targets and cans...As I said before, every one should be able to handle a gun safely. Learning to shoot is a lot like playing golf, you play against yourself...


0.22 just target shooting at a range. I first learned in my 20s when I lived in the US, ironically. I just felt it was a skill that might be useful. My teenage son has been target shooting here in Canada as well. I should probably go again sometime. I'm told there on some fun ranges in Vegas.

I tried golf as well. Even had a few sessions with a pro. Way too OCD for me... I'm a natural innovator, so I'm constantly trying to change or improve things. Not good in a game where absolute consistency is key.


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## TeddieG

I DO get the picture. Years go h was into antique rifles, especially English ones. He had a few that were of great value, but ended up selling them, and he toyed with the idea of dealing in antique guns, getting his English friends he knew when he was stationed in the UK while in the USAF to provide him some to sell stateside. But getting those guys to part with their great finds only worked if they needed the money to maintain their manors; otherwise, if they could keep them, they did! He also liked to dabble in guns pre-Civil War and immediately post-Civil War. 

It IS habit-forming. Glad to know this about you.


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## Woodchuck

happy as a clam said:


> Yes, I can shoot a hand gun, and quite well I might add. I have a .40 caliber Glock and this baby is next on my purchase list:
> 
> Ruger® Single-Nine® Single-Action Revolver Models
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like any Ruger single action, including the bearcat...


I recently bought a Blackhawk in .44 special....They were a factory prototype in 1956, bur Ruger found out about the new 44 magnum S&W was coming out with and dropped the special....

For years, gunsmiths have been sending their kids to college converting the old small frame action in .357 to .44 special...At about $1200 each....

Ruger re organized it's manufacturing cells, and found it would be simple to make a gun on the old small frame, and started selling guns on the old small frame, with the flat top, micro site, steel grip frame, and ejector rod housing....In .44 special...The perfect revolver cartridge....They are sweet....


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## Woodchuck

sapientia said:


> 0.22 just target shooting at a range. I first learned in my 20s when I lived in the US, ironically. I just felt it was a skill that might be useful. My teenage son has been target shooting here in Canada as well. I should probably go again sometime. I'm told there on some fun ranges in Vegas.
> 
> I tried golf as well. Even had a few sessions with a pro. Way too OCD for me... I'm a natural innovator, so I'm constantly trying to change or improve things. Not good in a game where absolute consistency is key.


Back in 2000 there was a huge ice storm in Texas, and Arkansas. It happened on Christmas day. 

A friend at work lived out in the woods, and his power was turned off. 

The lines were intact, but some limbs were down on the lines, and they wouldn't turn on his power till they had time to cut the limbs off...

I went out to his place that night with my O/U 12 GA. shotgun, and a box of slugs. It only took about 15 minutes and under 10 shots to clear the limbs off his power lines...The next day, they turned his power back on...

So sometimes being able to shoot can be really useful...


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## sapientia

Yep and early morning kitchen visits by bears as well:

Grizzly bear shot dead inside Kimberley home - British Columbia - CBC News


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## Woodchuck

sapientia said:


> Yep and early morning kitchen visits by bears as well:
> 
> Grizzly bear shot dead inside Kimberley home - British Columbia - CBC News


Yet another shooter hiding behind a gun....Did you see those claws....Whew...


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## unbelievable

MountainRunner said:


> Qualified "Expert" in the US Army and have owned a Browning 9mm and a Smith & Wesson 38
> 
> And I still stand by my statement.


That makes you a coward?


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## sapientia

Woodchuck said:


> Yet another shooter hiding behind a gun....Did you see those claws....Whew...


I'd be hiding behind a gun too if that was in my kitchen. Darwin applies. Humans: 1, Bear: 0.

It isn't always like that here. They wander our neighbourhoods, especially in late fall. Watched one waltz out of a park, well lumbered more like, where we walk regularly and crossed the street after traffic passed, bold as you please. A woman was attacked in northern Alberta last year coming out of a pit toilet. Bear mauled her to death before the guys could shoot it down.


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## Ripper

Anyone who is prepared to take on the responsibility should know how to operate the more common variety of weapons. Even if you don't intend to personally own one. The events of the past 24 hours show that you might be forced to put one into action. There have been several instances in the U.S. where citizens have intervened with a downed officers weapon. At the very least knowing a weapons capabilities might give the edge needed to survive.



Woodchuck said:


> Yet another shooter hiding behind a gun....Did you see those claws....Whew...


Apparently the meek will inherit the earth while the "real men" will get turned into bear scat. Shame.


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## sapientia

I'm pretty sure MR would have been able to take that bear out if it entred his home. That's not what he meant.


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## GusPolinski

sapientia said:


> Yep and early morning kitchen visits by bears as well:
> 
> Grizzly bear shot dead inside Kimberley home - British Columbia - CBC News


Damn. I actually feel bad for the bear.


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## sapientia

GusPolinski said:


> Damn. I actually feel bad for the bear.


It was a pretty graphic photo. The gun definitely performed as designed. Better the bear than a human. That photo would have been worse.


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## dash74

I want a pmr-30 and cmr-30 to do 2 gun, I shoot steal all the time but I want to get into 2 gun looks like so much fun and woud be a hoot to do it with 22mag


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## tech-novelist

MountainRunner said:


> LMAO!!! Puhleeze...really? Personally I think any man who hides behind a handgun is a coward.


I would say that any man who hides behind a handgun is very small. >


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## EleGirl

When I was a kid, my father made sure that all of his 8 children knew how to handle a fire arm. He had an arsenal.. 22, 38, 35, gloc, then there were the shotguns and rifles, but this theard is not about them.

I could handle all of them at age 10. 

I also qualified as expert in the Army.

So yea, I guess that makes me a real man.... >

Who knew?


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## Woodchuck

EleGirl said:


> When I was a kid, my father made sure that all of his 8 children knew how to handle a fire arm. He had an arsenal.. 22, 38, 35, gloc, then there were the shotguns and rifles, but this theard is not about them.
> 
> I could handle all of them at age 10.
> 
> I also qualified as expert in the Army.
> 
> So yea, I guess that makes me a real man.... >
> 
> Who knew?


Ya, but do you shave with a straight razor ?


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## Woodchuck

dash74 said:


> I want a pmr-30 and cmr-30 to do 2 gun, I shoot steal all the time but I want to get into 2 gun looks like so much fun and woud be a hoot to do it with 22mag


Sounds like fun...I shot IPSC, till the courses got too acrobatic for my bum leg....The guys get pretty sneaky...One course was set up wit all the targets the same color as the red dot in their scopes.....Spray and pray...


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## Woodchuck

Personal said:


> I don't think it's a skill every man should have, personally I think being able to tie a decent knot is of greater use.
> 
> 
> 
> I find that highly unlikely, especially since shooting a pistol is something that men and women can readily be trained to do.
> 
> Hitting the urinal accurately on the other hand, is worth some admiration.


We shared a range with the local P.D. None of them would fire at a target while the pistol club was on the range....

The P.D. guys were all TRAINED to shoot. That means he could load his Glock, and empty it by pulling the trigger...That is not a pistol shooter...

When they shot at steel 3/4 poppers at 15 yards we could hear their misses...It was ugly....pop pop clang pop pop pop clang clang...

Hitting 4-5 of six clay birds laying on the hundred yard berm with a .44 magnum indicates some skills....

Double tapping a 25 yd. Silhouette and both shots touch... 

Shooting possibles on a 25 yard slow fire target.....

Reliably harvesting small game with a handgun....All require skills..

On a camping trip or a day on the lake, a bowline or sheet bend comes in handy....In a car jacking, not so much...

Have you ever fired a real handgun? Or just use your urinal skills?


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## soccermom2three

Yes. My husband takes the whole family shooting at a gun range. We are all ready for the zombie apocalypse.


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## Runs like Dog

Sure, but we weren't handgun people. We would carry in a pinch but mostly we relied on long guns and shotguns. I've learned to shoot a semi automatic right handed out of necessity but prefer revolvers. Given my druthers I'd lug my old FN-FAL or anything chambered for a .308, 7.62. Whatever you hit with that tends to go away in a shower of blood. If I felt the need to carry a handgun I'd probably use something small like a hammerless .38.


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## Woodchuck

Personal said:


> Yes I have, inclusive of passing an Australian Army Advanced Individual Close Quarter Battle Pistol Course (which was an automatic fail if any rounds throughout that course fell out of the kill zone). My best 5 round group with a military service pistol (Browning Mk III) was 18mm. I was also a pistol instructor, coach, safety officer and officer in charge of practice. I have also used hip, thigh, shoulder and chest holsters for the pistol.
> 
> When I was 17 I joined the Australian Regular Army as a professional soldier and served for 14 years through a 15 year period (Regular & Reserve) since I was discharged for 1 of those 15 years due to injuries. Ten years of my service was in light and mechanised infantry plus I was also an infantry instructor. The last 4 years of my service was in Intelligence Corps where I still used firearms. During my time in infantry I was a; Scout, Rifleman, Machine Gunner, No. 2 Gunner, Section 2IC, Regimental Signaller, Section Commander (Rifle Section & also DFSW Section) and Platoon Sergeant (inclusive of being the youngest student on my Sergeants Courses).
> 
> I have used and been an instructor on the following weapons.
> 
> 7.62mm L1A1 SLR
> 7.62mm L2A1 AR
> M26 HE Grenade
> M26 HE spigot grenade
> 9mm F1 SMG
> 9mm L9A1 SLP Browning
> 7.62mm M60 GPMG
> 7.62mm L4A4 Bren LMG
> M18A1 Claymore APW
> 40mm M79 GL
> 66mm L1A2 F1 SRAAW
> L14A1 84mm MDFSW
> 
> 5.56mm M16A1 AR
> 40mm M203 GL
> 7.62mm MAG58 GPMG
> 
> 5.56mm F88 Austeyr
> 5.56mm F88C Austeyr
> 5.56mm F89 LSW
> 5.56mm F89A1 LSW
> 
> 9mm SLP Mk. 3 Browning
> 66mm M72A6 LDFSW
> 
> 7.62mm AK47 AR
> 7.62mm Type 56 AR
> 7.62mm vz.58 P AR
> 7.62mm RPD LMG
> 7.62mm RPK LMG
> 
> L1A2 Bayonet
> M7 Bayonet
> M9 Bayonet
> 
> F1 booby trap switch
> 
> Plus the M49A1 trip flare, smoke grenades and various other pyrotechnics.
> 
> I have also used but not been an instructor on the following.
> 
> .30" L3A4 MMG
> 7.62mm SR98
> 7.62mm MG3 GPMG
> 5.56mm M16A2 AR
> 5.56mm M4 Carbine
> 
> .303" SMLE No. III
> .303" Rifle No. 4 Mk. I
> .303" Rifle No. 5 Mk. I jungle Carbine
> .40" Glock 22
> .40" Glock 23
> 
> I've also called and directed 81mm mortar fire.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you've never fired countless Prac, HEAT, HE and Illum rounds out of an 84mm Charlie Guts Ache like I have.
> 
> Having done that I still don't think every man needs to know how to fire a handgun.
> 
> That said p1ssing straight is very handy.
> 
> A man remains a man regardless of whether he has used a plethora of firearms or none.


Why would you NOT want a man to be able to handle a handgun?...I know that is a viewpoint of many left leaning law enforcement people....I do not lean in that direction...

It has nothing to do with machismo, in our world, being able to handle a handgun is just a skill that can be very useful...

I have been called upon several times to put down a sick or injured animal, and at times it can save lives. 

Other skills I think necessary are being able to tie some good basic knots, basic first aid skills, the ability to reliably catch fish, put a shaving edge on a blade, and some primitive fire making skills...

I would add some basic boxing skills, and being able to diagnose simple gasoline engine problems...


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## tech-novelist

If we're going to add entries to the list, I would add "installing an operating system on a personal computer". :grin2:


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## Woodchuck

Runs like Dog said:


> Sure, but we weren't handgun people. We would carry in a pinch but mostly we relied on long guns and shotguns. I've learned to shoot a semi automatic right handed out of necessity but prefer revolvers. Given my druthers I'd lug my old FN-FAL or anything chambered for a .308, 7.62. Whatever you hit with that tends to go away in a shower of blood. If I felt the need to carry a handgun I'd probably use something small like a hammerless .38.


I like the FAL and the HK 91...I have not fired the M14. but have fired the M1....If I was carrying in a situation where my life was on the line, It would probably be a 7.62....In real life, I prefer single shots, and in shotguns, doubles...My daily carry gun is a 5 shot 3" .44 special....


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## Woodchuck

technovelist said:


> If we're going to add entries to the list, I would add "installing an operating system on a personal computer". :grin2:


Too much like work...


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## Ikaika

Woodchuck said:


> Why would you NOT want a man to be able to handle a handgun?...I know that is a viewpoint of many left leaning law enforcement people....I do not lean in that direction...
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with machismo, in our world, being able to handle a handgun is just a skill that can be very useful...
> 
> 
> 
> I have been called upon several times to put down a sick or injured animal, and at times it can save lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Other skills I think necessary are being able to tie some good basic knots, basic first aid skills, the ability to reliably catch fish, put a shaving edge on a blade, and some primitive fire making skills...
> 
> 
> 
> I would add some *basic boxing skills, *and being able to diagnose simple gasoline engine problems...




More than basic. And it is one thing to just work out on a bag. In the immortal words of Bruce Lee "boawds don't hit back". And yes I have a regular sparring partner, my nephew, 20+ years my junior.


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## Woodchuck

ocotillo said:


> I don't talk about it much here, but I enjoy shooting historical firearms competitively. (Which includes single action pistols.)
> 
> --Funny thing is though, my wife has inherited a freakish ability to shoot from somewhere in her family's past and is often better than I am....


Do you shoot SASS?....I would like to go to one of their matches....Does a 1894 CL Marlin in 25-20 ring a bell...

As for inheriting the ability to shoot, I knew a young man, who was just very gifted physically...He picked up things almost immediate...It took him a half hour to master walking in the stilts I made him. Casting a lure, skate boarding...

I took him to the range and he just got it...He was hitting targets with my 3" .44 special by the 2nd cylinder....


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## Ikaika

I don't know that hand fighting skills makes me a man, but it is great workout.


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## ScrambledEggs

I shoot everything with a trigger and own more guns than I do power tools. In my youth i was uncanny good instinct shooter with everything from pistol, iron sights, shotgun, and a rifle. Eyes not quite as sharp anymore so now I an little more technical but still can hit a 3in group at 300 yards with a rifle and chase a can around on the ground at 40 yards with a pistol. Have a CCW and live in a right to carry state but I rarely carry.


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## unbelievable

I'm reasonably proficient with pretty much anything with a trigger but I would advise against picking a firearm to be one's only force option. If you carry, you'd best be able to also take someone out without using a firearm, too. Knowing how to fight or kill doesn't make anyone a man but it might keep you from becoming dead. Pretty much anyone can learn to shoot accurately but few actually have the will to kill. Someone who does does have that will is dangerous whether they are armed or not. The guy with the scariest gun could be a huge coward and the unarmed guy might take you out with a coffee mug.


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## Ikaika

unbelievable said:


> I'm reasonably proficient with pretty much anything with a trigger but I would advise against picking a firearm to be one's only force option. If you carry, you'd best be able to also take someone out without using a firearm, too. Knowing how to fight or kill doesn't make anyone a man but it might keep you from becoming dead. Pretty much anyone can learn to shoot accurately but few actually have the will to kill. Someone who does does have that will is dangerous whether they are armed or not. The guy with the scariest gun could be a huge coward and the unarmed guy might take you out with a coffee mug.


100% agree. And, death has a smell and sound most are haunted by if they ever do have to kill. I hope that all on here who do have their guns to shoot, only ever see the need to shoot the paper targets in their lifetime.


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## tech-novelist

Ikaika said:


> 100% agree. And, death has a smell and sound most are haunted by if they ever do have to kill. I hope that all on here who do have their guns to shoot, only ever see the need to shoot the paper targets in their lifetime.


I certainly have no wish to kill anyone. I don't even like to see animals harmed unnecessarily.

But if it is necessary, I will kill to protect my life or my wife's life. Or to stop a would-be killer, should I be in a position to do so.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I've never fired a weapon. No objections, just haven't had a reason to learn.


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## unbelievable

Ikaika said:


> 100% agree. And, death has a smell and sound most are haunted by if they ever do have to kill. I hope that all on here who do have their guns to shoot, only ever see the need to shoot the paper targets in their lifetime.


I'd rather be haunted than the one doing the haunting. I can stuff a few more mental goblins down but I can't resurrect myself from the dead and people depend on me to protect them. Can't do that after I've assumed room temperature.


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## WorkingWife

Woodchuck said:


> I have always considered shooting a handgun to be one of the skills every man should have...
> 
> Anyone with normal hand eye co-ordination and eyesight should be able to become a pretty fair shooter within 1,000 rounds...
> 
> Every man who can't shoot a pistol secretly admires the man who can...


I have no idea what every man who can't shoot a pistol secretly thinks about and admires... but as a woman (who can shoot a hand gun - and a rifle) I have trouble imagining a man not being able to shoot a handgun. But maybe that's just because I grew up in the country. I will say that I do find it masculine/attractive when men like guns and knives.


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## Woodchuck

ScrambledEggs said:


> I shoot everything with a trigger and own more guns than I do power tools. In my youth i was uncanny good instinct shooter with everything from pistol, iron sights, shotgun, and a rifle. Eyes not quite as sharp anymore so now I an little more technical but still can hit a 3in group at 300 yards with a rifle and chase a can around on the ground at 40 yards with a pistol. Have a CCW and live in a right to carry state but I rarely carry.


Not many people would expect me to even own a firearm, but I have taught lots of people to shoot, cast bullets, and reload ammunition....Spent last week end putting in 2 gun safes...

One of my students is now a law enforcement officer. I don't think he has ever had to use his sidearm other than to put down an injured animal, but I know he had no trouble qualifying. I am glad to know that if he is in danger, he has the skill set to defend himself...

I was lucky when I was younger to live in a state with lots of groundhogs... I varmint hunted for several years. I still like varmint type rifles a lot. My favorites being a Ruger 1V in 25-06 and a C.Z. 517 in .22 hornet. 

My carry gun is a Rossi 720 3" in .44 special. 44 special is my favorite handgun cartridge. It can be loaded light enough for anyone to handle, and heavy enough to hunt deer or hogs...


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## Woodchuck

Ikaika said:


> I don't know that hand fighting skills makes me a man, but it is great workout.


I boxed in a youth league as a kid. I liked it better than any team sport...You screw up, you pay for it...Had my jaw dislocated once, but never knocked down...

I have only ever hit anyone as an adult one time... He was abusing a woman...

The only thing that makes anyone a man is what he has between his ears.....And it begins with respect for others...


----------



## Woodchuck

WorkingWife said:


> I have no idea what every man who can't shoot a pistol secretly thinks about and admires... but as a woman (who can shoot a hand gun - and a rifle) I have trouble imagining a man not being able to shoot a handgun. But maybe that's just because I grew up in the country. I will say that I do find it masculine/attractive when men like guns and knives.


Most of the shooters I know have one common trait...They tend to be laid back, and courteous. I kept beagles for several years, and hunted with lots of guys, they were always low key, easy going, family oriented men...


----------



## Woodchuck

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I've never fired a weapon. No objections, just haven't had a reason to learn.


The comptroller at a company I worked for had gotten his MBA in order to join the FBI. He developed an eye problem and couldn't pass the physical. 

He asked if I could teach him some basics, and wound up shooting a rifle, pistol, and shotgun. We rabbit hunted with my beagles, and he really enjoyed it...


----------



## thebirdman

I like to take my DW skeet shooting purely for the entertainment. I really need to get her a youth shotgun. She can barely hold my Winchester 12 ga. up and she has a hard time relaxing. She tenses up, followed by *BOOM* "Eeeekkkk!!!" *What looks like Snoopy dancing* *Cycle chamber* *BOOM* "Eeeeekkk!!!" It's hilarious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ikaika

Woodchuck said:


> I boxed in a youth league as a kid. I liked it better than any team sport...You screw up, you pay for it...Had my jaw dislocated once, but never knocked down...
> 
> I have only ever hit anyone as an adult one time... He was abusing a woman...
> 
> The only thing that makes anyone a man is what he has between his ears.....*And it begins with respect for others*...




I ka ‘ōlelo no ke ola, i ka ‘ōlelo nō ka make.


----------



## Woodchuck

technovelist said:


> I certainly have no wish to kill anyone. I don't even like to see animals harmed unnecessarily.
> 
> But if it is necessary, I will kill to protect my life or my wife's life. Or to stop a would-be killer, should I be in a position to do so.


You have the right attitude....As a hunter, I respect the game I hunt....In fact, I highly prize wild game, and if it is harvested in the morning, it is eaten that night....Nothing is shot for sport....

When I carry a handgun, it is defensive, not an act of bravado....And yet, once someone crosses the line and is a danger to others, I am prepared to neutralize the threat....

My OP said I think every man should be able to handle a handgun....Not "real men should KILL".....

A man willing and able to place themselves in danger to defend others, is a real man in my book...


----------



## Woodchuck

thebirdman said:


> I like to take my DW skeet shooting purely for the entertainment. I really need to get her a youth shotgun. She can barely hold my Winchester 12 ga. up and she has a hard time relaxing. She tenses up, followed by *BOOM* "Eeeekkkk!!!" *What looks like Snoopy dancing* *Cycle chamber* *BOOM* "Eeeeekkk!!!" It's hilarious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can get a replacement stock, or buy a used one and shorten it.

If she is recoil sensitive, she might prefer a 20 ga. Academy sports has an O/U for under $500... 

When I traveled for work I left my wife with a 20 ga. O/U...I let her shoot it with skeet loads, and then loaded it with 3" buckshot...


----------



## WorkingWife

Woodchuck said:


> The comptroller at a company I worked for had gotten his MBA in order to join the FBI. He developed an eye problem and couldn't pass the physical.
> 
> He asked if I could teach him some basics, and wound up shooting a rifle, pistol, and shotgun. We rabbit hunted with my beagles, and he really enjoyed it...


I have a friend who got lasik eye surgery where they do one eye for close up and the other for far sight - he loves it and was telling me how great it is, except that he didn't think about shooting when he got it done, and the eye they did to see close up is the eye he used when shooting. Oooops.


----------



## Woodchuck

WorkingWife said:


> I have a friend who got lasik eye surgery where they do one eye for close up and the other for far sight - he loves it and was telling me how great it is, except that he didn't think about shooting when he got it done, and the eye they did to see close up is the eye he used when shooting. Oooops.


You should wear eye protection for shooting, so a corrective lens for his right eye in his shooting glasses will solve that....


----------



## richardsharpe

Shooting sounds like fun. Just too many other fun things to do an not enough time. 




Woodchuck said:


> The comptroller at a company I worked for had gotten his MBA in order to join the FBI. He developed an eye problem and couldn't pass the physical.
> 
> He asked if I could teach him some basics, and wound up shooting a rifle, pistol, and shotgun. We rabbit hunted with my beagles, and he really enjoyed it...


----------



## Adelais

Woodchuck said:


> I'll bet you had someone set you up with proper ear plugs, etc....I hate it when someone takes a new shooter and lets recoil and noise intimidate them...


Embarrassed to say that Mr. IMFAR and I went on a date for the first time ever last week to learn to shoot a few of our weapons: His: .45 Colt handgun, mine: 9mm Ladies Smith and Wesson pistol, and a .38 revolver. Also a AK47, a 30-30 rifle (I think) and a shotgun.

An old guy (80?) was on the end of the row, shooting what looked like a really nice rifle, and he knew what he was doing. Glad to know that there a lot of people like him around who are keeping in practice for if (when) their skills are needed.

We started with our handguns, and realized we didn't have ear protection.

The old guy packed up and left pretty quickly (probably for his own safety  ) since anyone who watched us would know we didn't really know what we were doing. We have never had a safety course, and were glad to be (almost) alone at the range.

Both of us were scared, not knowing what recoil we would feel, and just plain intimidated by our guns. We made sure to not point them ate each other by accident, but probably did anyway without knowing. I was too afraid to shoot his 45, because I've seen too many YouTube videos of people being hit in the face by the recoil. Maybe next time. We also didn't shoot the shotgun because of our lack of ear protection.

We shot about 15 rounds total, when a bunch of people arrived in big trucks and brought out their fancy rifles.

Our ears had about had it, and for THEIR safety, we packed up and left.

We want to take a safety course ASAP, and start practicing regularly. Can't wait until we know our guns like the back of our hands, and can use them safely!


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## Pam

IMFar, please make sure you protect your ears from now on! 

My daughter and I got our CCW permits several years ago, then didn't do anything with them until we found an instructor that would be very patient with women who had never picked up a gun. He was wonderful, a county sheriff who is the kindest, most patient person I have ever been around. We got the basics from him, then got an "advanced permit" and started going to a shooting range. She is far better than I am, but I'm getting there, and we love it! But the men who operate the range we go to make VERY sure we have our ears covered before we go back to where the noise is.


----------



## Fozzy

Personal said:


> *I don't think it's a skill every man should have,* personally I think being able to tie a decent knot is of greater use.
> 
> 
> 
> I find that highly unlikely, especially since shooting a pistol is something that men and women can readily be trained to do.
> 
> Hitting the urinal accurately on the other hand, is worth some admiration.


I agree. I know several men that I'm pretty glad don't have this as a skill.


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## Fozzy

I don't shoot competitively and I haven't hunted since I was a kid, but I do enjoy walking a can up a hill from time to time.


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## Woodchuck

Pam said:


> IMFar, please make sure you protect your ears from now on!
> 
> My daughter and I got our CCW permits several years ago, then didn't do anything with them until we found an instructor that would be very patient with women who had never picked up a gun. He was wonderful, a county sheriff who is the kindest, most patient person I have ever been around. We got the basics from him, then got an "advanced permit" and started going to a shooting range. She is far better than I am, but I'm getting there, and we love it! But the men who operate the range we go to make VERY sure we have our ears covered before we go back to where the noise is.


Thats fantastic. There is nothing worse than people who allow beginners to shoot firearms without the correct protective gear, or to shoot a firearm with recoil they are not repaired to handle....

I have allowed kids as young as 9 shoot a .44, but with proper gear, and appropriate loads...


----------



## Pam

I do feel that I need to clarify that I am a Senior Citizen and my daughter has three children, the oldest of whom is 22. She isn't a child. I am so accustomed to posting where everybody knows who I am, and I can see where that statement was possibly very misleading.

Her 19-year-old son wants to go to the firing range with us, but right now his school schedule doesn't work for it.


----------



## Woodchuck

Pam said:


> I do feel that I need to clarify that I am a Senior Citizen and my daughter has three children, the oldest of whom is 22. She isn't a child. I am so accustomed to posting where everybody knows who I am, and I can see where that statement was possibly very misleading.
> 
> Her 19-year-old son wants to go to the firing range with us, but right now his school schedule doesn't work for it.


Anyone of any age can find a way to enjoy a shooting sport. As for age, I was 69 last week and my wife is 71..


----------



## Pam

Woodchuck said:


> Anyone of any age can find a way to enjoy a shooting sport. As for age, I was 69 last week and my wife is 71..


Yes, that's true; I was 72 a couple of weeks ago. A few years ago, my daughter and her family moved to be closer to us; she told her husband 'I can't wait to go grocery shopping with my mother'. We laughed about that last week, she never dreamed that grocery shopping would turn into shooting range.


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## Ol'Pal

I'm decent with a handgun, not great. I can hold my own with a rifle. I practice with a rifle a lot more though, to 1000+ on my own personal range. My shooting bench is built as part of my deck.


----------



## Woodchuck

Ol'Pal said:


> I'm decent with a handgun, not great. I can hold my own with a rifle. I practice with a rifle a lot more though, to 1000+ on my own personal range. My shooting bench is built as part of my deck.


What caliber do you shoot on long ranges? What kind of setup do you use to get enough elevation? as a varmint hunter I as solid out to 400 plus yards with a .243 or 25-06 and 3-9 or 6-24 glass.


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## Ol'Pal

My 280AI and Nightforce optics with a 20MOA rail. Optics with repeat-ability becomes very critical when you start getting to 600+. Looking into a full custom rig with in either 338 Lapua or 338 Edge. I'll have to get the neighbors permission to shoot across his land though to extend beyond my current range. These calibers are capable of 2500+ yds.


----------



## chillymorn

I was brought up shooting a variety of guns. In my opinion foot placement is just as important as hand placement and sight picture. breathing and trigger pull are also very important.

I personally like a weaver stance. read up and watch some videos then go to the range at least once a week and shoot at least 50-100 round. in a month or two you should be able to shoot as good as an average police officer. 

if you know someone with some training you could ask the to take you out the first couple of times.

please follow all safety rules and familiarize your self with you weapon before going to the range.


----------



## As'laDain

while i have qualified expert with an M9, i am much better with a rifle than i am a pistol. 

the part that i am best at is reflexive firing. i was in the 82nd airborne for about five years, and we were tasked with the Global Response Force for about three years of that. so, we had lots and lots of ranges and various training to keep up with. we were in the field more often than not, and my squad leader was the reason that i am good with a rifle. he fought in the battle of wanat before he came to the 82nd and wanted us to be able to shoot...

anyway, we would typically go out to the field monday morning and march to a range to shoot at each day. during down time and intervals between firing iterations, my squad leader had us up practicing reflexive firing drills. we would aim at a target, look down the sights, and then look over the rifle. then lower the rifle, raise it up again but NOT aim, just look over the rifle. then check by looking down the sight to see how far off we were. we would usually perform the drill for at least a couple hours a day. usually once a week we would actually get to a 25 meter zeroing range and get to test our progress. we did this for about three and a half years. so as you can imagine, we got pretty good at it. by the time i left the unit, most of us could hit a man sized target from a hundred meters away, reflexively. 

to this day i still spend a lot of time practicing, though i use air rifles because they are cheap and my current unit does not get nearly as much trigger time. 

if the target is 25 meters or less, i dont typically look down the sights anymore. there is a certain body position that tells me im on target, i adjust my entire upper body to match it. anyone can teach themselves reflexive firing, i would say it takes about 40 hours or so to get to the point where you can hit a door knob from 15 meters without actually aiming. 

we have an m9 baretta for home defense, but i eventually plan on getting an AR 15. while some people may find it to be overkill for home defense, its what i have trained on. its what i know. more importantly, i know that i can fire it without aiming, accurately, and i can quickly put it into operation even when i am freaked the fvk out.


----------



## convert

I just remember the John Wayne movie where Dean Martin couldn't shoot a hand gun so he gave him a very very short double barrel shot gun to use. 

I can't remember what movie it was though.


----------



## Woodchuck

As'laDain said:


> while i have qualified expert with an M9, i am much better with a rifle than i am a pistol.
> 
> the part that i am best at is reflexive firing. i was in the 82nd airborne for about five years, and we were tasked with the Global Response Force for about three years of that. so, we had lots and lots of ranges and various training to keep up with. we were in the field more often than not, and my squad leader was the reason that i am good with a rifle. he fought in the battle of wanat before he came to the 82nd and wanted us to be able to shoot...
> 
> anyway, we would typically go out to the field monday morning and march to a range to shoot at each day. during down time and intervals between firing iterations, my squad leader had us up practicing reflexive firing drills. we would aim at a target, look down the sights, and then look over the rifle. then lower the rifle, raise it up again but NOT aim, just look over the rifle. then check by looking down the sight to see how far off we were. we would usually perform the drill for at least a couple hours a day. usually once a week we would actually get to a 25 meter zeroing range and get to test our progress. we did this for about three and a half years. so as you can imagine, we got pretty good at it. by the time i left the unit, most of us could hit a man sized target from a hundred meters away, reflexively.
> 
> to this day i still spend a lot of time practicing, though i use air rifles because they are cheap and my current unit does not get nearly as much trigger time.
> 
> if the target is 25 meters or less, i dont typically look down the sights anymore. there is a certain body position that tells me im on target, i adjust my entire upper body to match it. anyone can teach themselves reflexive firing, i would say it takes about 40 hours or so to get to the point where you can hit a door knob from 15 meters without actually aiming.
> 
> we have an m9 baretta for home defense, but i eventually plan on getting an AR 15. while some people may find it to be overkill for home defense, its what i have trained on. its what i know. more importantly, i know that i can fire it without aiming, accurately, and i can quickly put it into operation even when i am freaked the fvk out.


I recently bought an AR. I bought it primarily as a SHTF weapon. I live on a hill about 30 yards off the street. I have an extended mag Remington 870, and the AR. If a group were walking down the street, either the AR or the 12 GA would be a good incentive NOT to walk up my hill...

To that end, the AR is tricked out with a lot of visual cues...30 round mag, front pistol grip, scope....Things that would LOOK imposing at 30 yards....

My night stand gun is a .44 special revolver, stainless with a 3" barrel. 

I have a weakness for .44 cal. firearms. I have a .44 magnum Redhawk stainless, with a 7 1/2 " barrel, ported, with pachy grips. I have scoped it in the past, but took the scope off...

I also have a .44 special Blackhawk on the new flat top frame. It is accurate to a whole different level...better than a Colt Gold Cup I shot...

I have molds to cast a 200 gr. wadcutter, a 240 gr. semi wadcutter, and a 310 gr. gas check with a huge meplat...I have loaded it to 1300 fps....

My every day load is a 240 gr. bullet at 1100 fps, in either the .44 magnum or special. It is accurate, and will take a deer at 100 yards...


----------



## Woodchuck

Ol'Pal said:


> My 280AI and Nightforce optics with a 20MOA rail. Optics with repeat-ability becomes very critical when you start getting to 600+. Looking into a full custom rig with in either 338 Lapua or 338 Edge. I'll have to get the neighbors permission to shoot across his land though to extend beyond my current range. These calibers are capable of 2500+ yds.


The .280 Ackley is a really good round. It is almost a match for a 7mm magnum, in a standard case....Have you shot any 6.5's? those long bullets hold up pretty well at long ranges...

What do you do about recoil in the .338? I guess a good muzzle brake and a quality recoil pad will tame it a good deal, but it is a notorious kicker....

A steel mill opened in our town. More money than lots of folks had ever seen....One month, some guy bought a .338 and bragged it up...I'll bet the local dealer sold every available .338 in the state......

Over the next couple of months. he must have gotten 90%
of them back in trade....His used gun rack had barely used .338's in it for a couple of years...


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I have a Bulldog .44 revolver, an air pistol (C02 powered for fun) and a LLama 9mm plus a 12 gauge pump and a 20 gauge pump and a couple double barrel shotguns. I leave the shotguns in Dad's gun safe at my parent's house while the handguns stay in my small safe.


----------



## Woodchuck

chillymorn said:


> I was brought up shooting a variety of guns. In my opinion foot placement is just as important as hand placement and sight picture. breathing and trigger pull are also very important.
> 
> I personally like a weaver stance. read up and watch some videos then go to the range at least once a week and shoot at least 50-100 round. in a month or two you should be able to shoot as good as an average police officer.
> 
> if you know someone with some training you could ask the to take you out the first couple of times.
> 
> please follow all safety rules and familiarize your self with you weapon before going to the range.


Shooting a handgun is pretty easy to learn, but it is nothing like what you see on movies and TV....Lots of people think it is just point and pull the trigger. 

It takes some serious practice and dedication to shoot well....Having a coach helps a lot. I learned from magazine articles and shot a benjamin .22 pellet pistol...It was accurate, and taught me a lot.

I learned long range pistol shooting with a .357 Ruger Blackhawk...I was amazed the first time I shot and hit targets at 100 yards...


----------



## EnjoliWoman

While I enjoyed shooting skeet and I've done target practice with handguns (it's been YEARS), I figure I won't have to hit a human unless they are very close in range - i.e. in my house. So I don't worry too much about accuraccy. Plus I figure even if they dodge a few bullets, it should be enough to make them turn and run. I likely have more ammunition and can keep shooting much longer than they can. Because I'm in the city, I have hollow points and one last case of black talon which I never use for practice - I just keep them loaded.


----------



## Fozzy

As'laDain said:


> we have an m9 baretta for home defense, but i eventually plan on getting an AR 15. while some people may find it to be overkill for home defense, its what i have trained on. its what i know. more importantly, i know that i can fire it without aiming, accurately, and i can quickly put it into operation even when i am freaked the fvk out.


Makes sense to go with a gun you're familiar with. I went dove hunting a couple of years back with a guy who was a designated marksman in Iraq. Fantastic shot with a rifle, but still didn't get his bag limit that day--or anywhere close to it. He was sh*t with a shotgun for some reason.


----------



## Ikaika

Woodchuck said:


> I have always considered shooting a handgun to be one of the skills every man should have...
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone with normal hand eye co-ordination and eyesight should be able to become a pretty fair shooter within 1,000 rounds...
> 
> 
> 
> Every man who can't shoot a pistol secretly admires the *woman *who can...






EnjoliWoman said:


> I have a Bulldog .44 revolver, an air pistol (C02 powered for fun) and a LLama 9mm plus a 12 gauge pump and a 20 gauge pump and a couple double barrel shotguns. I leave the shotguns in Dad's gun safe at my parent's house while the handguns stay in my small safe.






EnjoliWoman said:


> While I enjoyed shooting skeet and I've done target practice with handguns (it's been YEARS), I figure I won't have to hit a human unless they are very close in range - i.e. in my house. So I don't worry too much about accuraccy. Plus I figure even if they dodge a few bullets, it should be enough to make them turn and run. I likely have more ammunition and can keep shooting much longer than they can. Because I'm in the city, I have hollow points and one last case of black talon which I never use for practice - I just keep them loaded.


----------



## Woodchuck

Fozzy said:


> Makes sense to go with a gun you're familiar with. I went dove hunting a couple of years back with a guy who was a designated marksman in Iraq. Fantastic shot with a rifle, but still didn't get his bag limit that day--or anywhere close to it. He was sh*t with a shotgun for some reason.


A shotgun is totally different from a rifle...fit is very important. I shot rabbits with hounds for several years, it is a lot of fun, and I was pretty successful...But I could not reliably hit doves till I got my Beretta O/U...They actually make a THUD sound when they hit the ground...who knew...


----------



## As'laDain

EnjoliWoman said:


> While I enjoyed shooting skeet and I've done target practice with handguns (it's been YEARS), I figure I won't have to hit a human unless they are very close in range - i.e. in my house. So I don't worry too much about accuraccy. Plus I figure even if they dodge a few bullets, it should be enough to make them turn and run. I likely have more ammunition and can keep shooting much longer than they can. Because I'm in the city, I have hollow points and one last case of black talon which I never use for practice - I just keep them loaded.


if you ever feel like brushing up on your shooting skills, i would recommend a cheap air pistol to practice some reflexive firing. i have seen army special forces guys miss targets at pretty close ranges with pistols before, mainly because they dont practice. generally, they have good reason for that. special forces train on a WIDE variety of skills. they cant be at the range every day. but, pellet guns are extremely cheap and you can fire them just about anywhere. despite what some fanatics might tell you, you CAN get better at shooting while using an airgun. 

when i got to my current unit, there were a lot of guys that liked to joke about how i practiced on "toys" instead of "real guns". the jokes ended with our first trip to the firing range. several of them have since ordered airguns of their own.

when i get back from my current trip, im ordering one of the Umarex pistols. they have a whole lot of CO2 powered pistols that fire pellets, bbs, or both. best part is they look and feel similar to regular pistols, the only difference being the kickback.


----------



## Woodchuck

EnjoliWoman said:


> I have a Bulldog .44 revolver, an air pistol (C02 powered for fun) and a LLama 9mm plus a 12 gauge pump and a 20 gauge pump and a couple double barrel shotguns. I leave the shotguns in Dad's gun safe at my parent's house while the handguns stay in my small safe.


I am a .44 caliber aficionado..... In the .44 special, they are very effective and yet have moderate recoil...They are popular as a backup gun with law enforcement...


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Woodchuck said:


> I am a .44 caliber aficionado..... In the .44 special, they are very effective and yet have moderate recoil...They are popular as a backup gun with law enforcement...


Mine is a 5-shot so the size is more like a .38 so it fits my hand better than a 6-shot .44 - I am comfortable with it. The 9mm is actually my daughter's - after Dad passed away in July we went through all of his guns. We picked out what we wanted to keep and the others will be sold through a dealer. I really wanted the ones that had memories of us at the range. The rest will go.


----------



## Ol'Pal

Woodchuck said:


> The .280 Ackley is a really good round. It is almost a match for a 7mm magnum, in a standard case....Have you shot any 6.5's? those long bullets hold up pretty well at long ranges...
> 
> What do you do about recoil in the .338? I guess a good muzzle brake and a quality recoil pad will tame it a good deal, but it is a notorious kicker....
> 
> A steel mill opened in our town. More money than lots of folks had ever seen....One month, some guy bought a .338 and bragged it up...I'll bet the local dealer sold every available .338 in the state......
> 
> Over the next couple of months. he must have gotten 90%
> of them back in trade....His used gun rack had barely used .338's in it for a couple of years...



Handloading my 280AI im getting very close to 7mag territory. 

I've got a 6.5x284. I've never really stretched its legs but it is an absolute joy to shoot. 

The big 338's have to have a muzzle break on them. A good muzzle break will get recoil down to about the same as my 280AI or maybe just slightly more. 

Personally, I don't think BC really comes into pay until you go to 1k and beyond. Lots of people will probably argue with that but i think they've read to many articles in field and stream and not enough trigger time.


----------



## Rowan

Fozzy said:


> Makes sense to go with a gun you're familiar with. I went dove hunting a couple of years back with a guy who was a designated marksman in Iraq. Fantastic shot with a rifle, but still didn't get his bag limit that day--or anywhere close to it. He was sh*t with a shotgun for some reason.


I'm adequate with a handgun, though it's been a while since I fired one much. I'm a fair bit more than adequate with a rifle and in my youth did some competitive shooting. However, while I fire a shotgun more than any other type, I'm simply not as good with it as I am with a rifle. Honestly, I think the slower, more deliberate, action of firing a rifle is more suited to my nature than shotguns are.


----------



## Woodchuck

Ol'Pal said:


> Handloading my 280AI im getting very close to 7mag territory.
> 
> I've got a 6.5x284. I've never really stretched its legs but it is an absolute joy to shoot.
> 
> The big 338's have to have a muzzle break on them. A good muzzle break will get recoil down to about the same as my 280AI or maybe just slightly more.
> 
> Personally, I don't think BC really comes into pay until you go to 1k and beyond. Lots of people will probably argue with that but i think they've read to many articles in field and stream and not enough trigger time.


The point is to hit the target. B.C. means nothing to a dead groundhog...All my shooting was done out to a quarter mile max. Bullet drop was minimal, and I kept a drop table on the bell of my scope with a lable maker...Hold over was easy to calculate because at such close ranges, you can be off by 50 yards and still score...

I was shooting with a very accurate .243 made by Tikka, with a 3-9 scope. The hardest part was finding targets at the longer ranges...In bean field country it is hard to find a shootable chuck out past 200 yards....They are there, but hills and brush obscure them...


----------



## chillymorn

I never come off the firing range with a frown on my face. and cleaning your weapons after are just as important as learning how to shoot, Long range shooting is very challenging and lots of fun. Nothing like working up a load for your gun and getting every possible bit of accuracy out of it.

my favorite cal is .308 but a close second is the good old 22 you can buy one for around 100$ and trying different brands of ammo can easily shoot 1 inch group out to 100yrds.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

We have quite a collection of .30-06 rifles. We hunt with horses in the Cascades foothills in Eastern Washington and .30-06 is really versatile. It's also nice that we only need to buy one size ammo for 4 of us (including my father in law). Now, my youngest is 13 and he uses the .243 (6mm). 

When I was growing up I only used rifles and shotguns, and only for hunting and a little target practice. .22, .410, 12ga, .270, .30-30, .30-06 are all calibers I have a lot of experience with. In the Navy I was on a security force that trained with the Marine Corp folks. I qualified Expert on both the .45 and M14.

As for my own handgun, I did finally buy one a few years back. An old school K frame .357 Magnum that I like a lot. I guess it's kind of made to be carried a lot and shot a little.


----------



## Woodchuck

chillymorn said:


> I never come off the firing range with a frown on my face. and cleaning your weapons after are just as important as learning how to shoot, Long range shooting is very challenging and lots of fun. Nothing like working up a load for your gun and getting every possible bit of accuracy out of it.
> 
> my favorite cal is .308 but a close second is the good old 22 you can buy one for around 100$ and trying different brands of ammo can easily shoot 1 inch group out to 100yrds.


I have a weakness for .44 caliber revolvers and .22 caliber rifles....I have probably 5 rimfires and 3 .22 centerfires, A .22 hornet, a 218 Bee, and a .222 Rimmed...

The hornet is a C.Z 527...When I got it I took it to the range it was shooting 3" groups. I Was devastated.....

Then I found the stock touching the barrel in the right side...I shimmed it enough to clear, and the rifle settled in and shot .2 groups at 100 yards. I was hitting pennies at that range....6-24 scope...

I like lever actions too, I have 3 marlins, a .35, a 25-20, and a 219 Bee...A Ruger #1 in 25-06, and the 222R on a Greener martini....


----------



## HurtDude

Resounding yes from me, I carry almost daily with my 9mm.


----------



## Pam

My daughter and I went to the range again today; it was the best day ever for both of us. I texted pictures of our targets to our instructor, who replied "awesome". He gets a lot of joy out of our enthusiasm, because he loves guns and teaching others about guns.


----------



## Woodchuck

Pam said:


> My daughter and I went to the range again today; it was the best day ever for both of us. I texted pictures of our targets to our instructor, who replied "awesome". He gets a lot of joy out of our enthusiasm, because he loves guns and teaching others about guns.


He must be a very wicked bloodthirsty man....:smile2:


----------



## Woodchuck

WorkingOnMe said:


> We have quite a collection of .30-06 rifles. We hunt with horses in the Cascades foothills in Eastern Washington and .30-06 is really versatile. It's also nice that we only need to buy one size ammo for 4 of us (including my father in law). Now, my youngest is 13 and he uses the .243 (6mm).
> 
> When I was growing up I only used rifles and shotguns, and only for hunting and a little target practice. .22, .410, 12ga, .270, .30-30, .30-06 are all calibers I have a lot of experience with. In the Navy I was on a security force that trained with the Marine Corp folks. I qualified Expert on both the .45 and M14.
> 
> As for my own handgun, I did finally buy one a few years back. An old school K frame .357 Magnum that I like a lot. I guess it's kind of made to be carried a lot and shot a little.


The K-frame smith is made to carry much shoot little, and is perfect for that...The newer L frame can taker more of a pounding....But still, you can shoot a truckload of .38 special through it without a bobble...And you have that great old S&W smoothness and accuracy....It is a great handgun, and will never lose value...


----------



## Pam

Woodchuck said:


> He must be a very wicked bloodthirsty man....:smile2:


He is a sheriff, has been LEO for all of his adult life. He just loves guns.


----------



## Woodchuck

Pam said:


> He is a sheriff, has been LEO for all of his adult life. He just loves guns.


Have you noticed how polite and generous people at the range act? I always loved the laid back attitude...


----------



## Pam

Woodchuck said:


> Have you noticed how polite and generous people at the range act? I always loved the laid back attitude...


Oh, yes! The range we go to is connected to a security guard school; the men who teach at the school and handle the counter at the range are the most polite, helpful people! They act like they are delighted to see us every week, and are happy to answer any question we might have. It's a beat-up old building in a bad part of town, but we prefer it by far to the fancy range some of our friends go to. Just such nice people, and we have never run into anybody who was there to shoot, that was unfriendly or not polite.


----------



## Thundarr

I used to be a good shot; maybe I still am. I'd rather shoot a rifle any day than a pistol. My dad was an avid hunter so my twin bro and I got 22 rifles for on our tenth birth days, 30/30s on our 11th, and 12 gage shot guns on our 12th. I used to go hunting with dad a lot but I don't like hunting. I just went for the dad time.

Now I've got a pistol in the bedroom. It's not loaded but that would take about 5 seconds. It would mess me up inside if I had to shoot an intruder but we've got to be ready to protect our family. That's the scary thing about having a gun. Knowing we would use it with no apologies.


----------



## Curse of Millhaven

.


----------



## Adelais

Just learned how to field strip and clean my Lady Smith 3913 9mm the other night! Used a You Tube video as a guide.

Going to learn how to field strip my Ruger .357 magnum revolver next week!

H and I are going out shooting again this Thanksgiving if the weather is good. Soon I'll take a safety course and get my CC.


----------



## RandomDude

Ey? What happened to the purity of unarmed combat?


----------



## Woodchuck

Curse of Millhaven said:


> Yes! I can indeed shoot a handgun, which is a little funny to me given my personality and politics.
> 
> My dad was Army, had been an MP, and then was a law enforcement officer for decades, until he was forced to retire when his health issues began affecting his ability to perform his duties.
> 
> He was well-trained in firearms and enjoyed and respected them. And I loved and admired my pop no end, so I have a pretty complicated relationship with guns and can't help but associate them with my dad. Guns have always been and probably always will be a part of my life.
> 
> He gave me my first gun (a .38 S&W) when I moved out of state in my 20's and insisted I learn to shoot it though I was averse and timid. He wanted to ensure I could protect myself and made me vow I would do just that if need be. And so he would drag me to the range and tirelessly taught me how to properly hold, aim, breathe, and follow through.
> 
> My first shot was my best; I nailed that target dude dead center! I wasn't anticipating the gunfire explosion, the recoil, or the force, so I was totally focused, calm, and relaxed. Every shot thereafter was a little shaky, off-center, and I was tense, scared, and just trying to keep my eyes open and not embarrass myself and disappoint my dad.
> 
> I eventually became pretty good. He was proud of me and gave me the high compliment of saying I shot better than some of the guys he worked with who had been on the force for years.  I still have all my targets from those sessions saved like cherished keepsakes.
> 
> He also taught me how to properly clean, maintain, store, and respect my weapon. He had many handguns and rifles that he collected, which are now mine.
> 
> It's sad and funny, that I, his peacenik daughter, inherited his arsenal. But I love my pop, so now I care for his guns. I intend to become proficient in each one and hope I do him proud.


I have the Remington .22 my dad used to feed the family when he was farming....He would plow with mules. When the dog treed a squirrel, dad would stop, and go shoot the squirrel...It got to the point, that when the dog barked, the mules would stop, and refused to plow......

I also have the old rickety single shot 12 GA. he got when he was 13, (1929) for plowing up a neighbors potato patch...Again with a team of mules.... 

There are lots of good memories in a mans guns...


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Just learned how to field strip and clean my Lady Smith 3913 9mm the other night! Used a You Tube video as a guide.
> 
> Going to learn how to field strip my Ruger .357 magnum revolver next week!
> 
> H and I are going out shooting again this Thanksgiving if the weather is good. Soon I'll take a safety course and get my CC.


The Ruger requires very little takedown. If you shoot jacketed bullets, you can just wipe out the bore with a patch and solvent.... If you shoot lead bullets, you may get lead deposits in the bore....

That requires more effort...

The rest of the gun is well sealed against dirt...Pull off the grip and rinse everything visible...A little oil on the spring pivot points, and hammer, and you are done...You will never need to remove the mainspring or hammer, unless you have broken parts or are doing a trigger job....


----------



## Woodchuck

RandomDude said:


> Ey? What happened to the purity of unarmed combat?


At my CC class the question came up...What do you do when an assailant has a knife...I answered...Give him a paper and pencil....

So he can keep score...Gun 1, knife 0....


----------



## Adelais

Woodchuck said:


> The Ruger requires very little takedown. If you shoot jacketed bullets, you can just wipe out the bore with a patch and solvent.... If you shoot lead bullets, you may get lead deposits in the bore....
> 
> That requires more effort...
> 
> The rest of the gun is well sealed against dirt...Pull off the grip and rinse everything visible...A little oil on the spring pivot points, and hammer, and you are done...You will never need to remove the mainspring or hammer, unless you have broken parts or are doing a trigger job....


So far the ones I have shot are jacketed. I now know to look for "buckets" of ammo, so it will be cheaper for practice. Those are probably lead, I imagine?


----------



## Adelais

So Woodchuck, the kit I got has solvent and oil. On my Lady S&W I used the solvent first, and then used oil. Was it necessary to follow up the solvent with oil?


----------



## Chuck71

I was taught to use pistols / rifles at a very young age. Where I live killing for game is more than killing

to eat 10 / 1. I only shoot what I eat... unless it's a snake, bear and no other choice.


----------



## Adelais

Thundarr said:


> Now I've got a pistol in the bedroom. It's not loaded but that would take about 5 seconds. It would mess me up inside if I had to shoot an intruder but we've got to be ready to protect our family. That's the scary thing about having a gun. Knowing we would use it with no apologies.


I have mine beside my bed and two more in different places around the house, all loaded. My husband is gone a lot, and we are all women. We don't feel afraid knowing that we have protection nearby if we need it.


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> So Woodchuck, the kit I got has solvent and oil. On my Lady S&W I used the solvent first, and then used oil. Was it necessary to follow up the solvent with oil?


Yes. The solvent cuts powder residue, the oil prevents rust in a blue steel gun, and lubricates all guns..


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> So far the ones I have shot are jacketed. I now know to look for "buckets" of ammo, so it will be cheaper for practice. Those are probably lead, I imagine?


Almost all 9MM bullets will be jacketed. There used to be a lot of really soft lead ammo for the .357. Clean the bore, and look for clumps of lead in the barrel along the edges of the grooves....The inside of the barrel should be perfectly smooth with spiral grooves called Rifling...If it is smooth and clean, it is your job to keep it that way.....I bought my first .357 used. It was a Ruger .357. The barrel was horribly leaded, but after a couple of hours it was perfect...Nothing you can't handle...


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I have mine beside my bed and two more in different places around the house, all loaded. My husband is gone a lot, and we are all women. We don't feel afraid knowing that we have protection nearby if we need it.


I admire your spirit...I was once gone for 13 months. My wife stayed home alone, and kept a very nice 12 Ga. double barrel in her room...All my grandparents were farm people. A gun was always nearby for snakes, predators, birds in the fruit trees, and the occasional squirrel or rabbit that went into the larder...It was the woman's job to protect the homestead when the men were farming....An admirable tradition...


----------



## Adelais

Woodchuck said:


> Almost all 9MM bullets will be jacketed. There used to be a lot of really soft lead ammo for the .357. Clean the bore, and look for clumps of lead in the barrel along the edges of the grooves....The inside of the barrel should be perfectly smooth with spiral grooves called Rifling...If it is smooth and clean, it is your job to keep it that way.....I bought my first .357 used. It was a Ruger .357. The barrel was horribly leaded, but after a couple of hours it was perfect...Nothing you can't handle...


Mine is used too, but in really good condition. A wire brush came with the kit, and before I knew anything, I assumed the brush was for cleaning the barrel. I put it in the barrel and moved it back and forth a few times, then I worried that maybe I shouldn't have done that, because I might have scratched it. Is it OK to use the wire brush in the barrel?


----------



## Woodchuck

Chuck71 said:


> I was taught to use pistols / rifles at a very young age. Where I live killing for game is more than killing
> 
> to eat 10 / 1. I only shoot what I eat... unless it's a snake, bear and no other choice.


My city girl wife turned up her nose at rabbits...Then she would sit down at the table, and eat a whole one....She said "it tastes a lot better than it sounds".....I loved those late season 3/4 grown cottontails...They had never eaten anything but soybean sprouts and momma's milk....Tender and tasty...

We visited a friend once. He had a big platter of meat fried up on the table. We sat down and ate out fill, then told the wife it was bull frog....She thought for a second and said "Well it's GOOD bullfrog" and ate another leg....She was a city girl, but not a stupid city girl....


----------



## Adelais

My dad was a military man, gone for a year at a time 3 different times, and my mom also had a loaded shotgun in the closet.

We've had our weapons for years, and haven't used them. I asked my H to teach me. He doesn't know either, so he never did. I had the pistols loaded and hidden in various places for years, basically knowing how to take off the safety if there is one and pull the trigger.

I finally got fed up and decided to learn on my own. Last week I asked my H if he prefers if I go to the range alone, or with someone else who will teach me....a man who is not him.... (I was afraid to go alone, because I was afraid a criminal looking to steal stupid people's guns might come and take my guns away. I figured I should have someone with me who knows what he is doing.)

The day after I asked him that, he took me shooting.:smile2:

He has already suggested we go again! I'm excited to become competent and know my weapons!


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

of course, any clown can shoot a handgun - some can even get near what they want to hit.

I, unfortunately, am a bit like Sundance from the Butch & Sundance movie - If get a quick hit ...as long as either me or target is moving, otherwise I tend to wing the set targets.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> He has already suggested we go again! I'm excited to become competent and know my weapons!


Just get in tight, and dont stick your face near it.


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> My dad was a military man, gone for a year at a time 3 different times, and my mom also had a loaded shotgun in the closet.
> 
> We've had our weapons for years, and haven't used them. I asked my H to teach me. He doesn't know either, so he never did. I had the pistols loaded and hidden in various places for years, basically knowing how to take off the safety if there is one and pull the trigger.
> 
> I finally got fed up and decided to learn on my own. Last week I asked my H if he prefers if I go to the range alone, or with someone else who will teach me....a man who is not him.... (I was afraid to go alone, because I was afraid a criminal looking to steal stupid people's guns might come and take my guns away. I figured I should have someone with me who knows what he is doing.)
> 
> The day after I asked him that, he took me shooting.:smile2:
> 
> He has already suggested we go again! I'm excited to become competent and know my weapons!


Fantastic....Be sure to wear ear plugs and safety glasses...


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Mine is used too, but in really good condition. A wire brush came with the kit, and before I knew anything, I assumed the brush was for cleaning the barrel. I put it in the barrel and moved it back and forth a few times, then I worried that maybe I shouldn't have done that, because I might have scratched it. Is it OK to use the wire brush in the barrel?


Bronze (brassy looking) brushes won't hurt anything...It is softer than barrel steel, but harder than lead...


----------



## Forest

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> My dad was a military man, gone for a year at a time 3 different times, and my mom also had a loaded shotgun in the closet.
> 
> We've had our weapons for years, and haven't used them. I asked my H to teach me. He doesn't know either, so he never did. I had the pistols loaded and hidden in various places for years, basically knowing how to take off the safety if there is one and pull the trigger.
> 
> I finally got fed up and decided to learn on my own. Last week I asked my H if he prefers if I go to the range alone, or with someone else who will teach me....a man who is not him.... (I was afraid to go alone, because I was afraid a criminal looking to steal stupid people's guns might come and take my guns away. I figured I should have someone with me who knows what he is doing.)
> 
> The day after I asked him that, he took me shooting.:smile2:
> 
> He has already suggested we go again! I'm excited to become competent and know my weapons!


Just keep your eye on that front sight. Let the target be blurry, stay on that front sight. If shooting a revolver, learn about the "timing" of the cylinder as it slowly spins. Wait until that second click, when the cylinder is locked, ready to fire, and get your "final sight alignment". A big help. Revolvers are not so stylish now, though.

Front sight; don't jerk the trigger; 90% of the deal.


----------



## Adelais

Forest said:


> Just keep your eye on that front sight. Let the target be blurry, stay on that front sight. If shooting a revolver, learn about the "timing" of the cylinder as it slowly spins. Wait until that second click, when the cylinder is locked, ready to fire, and get your "final sight alignment". A big help. Revolvers are not so stylish now, though.
> 
> Front sight; don't jerk the trigger; 90% of the deal.


How do I "like" this 100 times?

I want to remember this advice!!

The last time I shot, I was not aware of all the details you described. I missed my target every time but once. When we went to get all our targets, I had several shots in the back ones that were many yards away! Whatever mistake I was making, at least I was consistent!!


----------



## Adelais

Forest said:


> If shooting a revolver, learn about the "timing" of the cylinder as it slowly spins. Wait until that second click, when the cylinder is locked, ready to fire, and get your "final sight alignment"
> 
> Front sight; don't jerk the trigger; 90% of the deal.


So I pull the trigger slowly, and I will hear two clicks, then I stop and realign my target with my sights? Then I pull the trigger the rest of the way?


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> So I pull the trigger slowly, and I will hear two clicks, then I stop and realign my target with my sights? Then I pull the trigger the rest of the way?


That is with a double action...There is a part called the hand that locks the cylinder in place. On a double action revolver, pulling the trigger with the hammer down will do 5 things...


1) Retract the hand from the locking notch
2) C0ck the hammer
3) rotate the cylinder
4) Drop the hand into the next locking notch
5) Drop the hammer...BANG

Whew...That's a lot of work....And it makes it a lot harder to be accurate....Because it requires a lot more force on the trigger...

Unless your double action (DA) revolver is double action only (DAO)
you can shoot it single action (SA)....

To shoot a DA revolver or a SA revolver single action, Thumb back the hammer....aim, and pull the trigger.....

By doing this, your thumb does the hard work of c0cking your gun, rotating the cylinder, and retracting and dropping the hand...

All that's left is a much lighter trigger pull...

Once you have mastered SA shooting, you can play with DA shooting... 

Empty your gun, look at it in side view, and you will see the hand right under the cylinder...

Pull the trigger from the hammer down position....Become aware of all the actions taking place as you cycle the gun...

Hand drops, 
hammer comes back, 
cylinder turns, 
hand comes up, 
gun fires......

All of these things taking place in perfect order and alignment is called the timing of your revolver....

As you pull the trigger, you will feel the effort of pulling the trigger change....depending on what part of the cycle it is in...

You will eventually begin to feel when the hand has locked the cylinder, and the gun is just about to fire....

When you can feel this happen every time, you will know when to take your best aim, and follow through...

Of course if you have a bear coming at you, just point and pull real fast...


----------



## Dragunov

Yes I know how to shoot a handgun, and rifles, and shotguns, and even machine guns. 

Every adult, man or woman should know how to shoot, clean, and properly store and own at least one firearm.


----------



## Adelais

Woodchuck said:


> That is with a double action...There is a part called the hand that locks the cylinder in place. On a double action revolver, pulling the trigger with the hammer down will do 5 things...
> 
> 
> 1) Retract the hand from the locking notch
> 2) C0ck the hammer
> 3) rotate the cylinder
> 4) Drop the hand into the next locking notch
> 5) Drop the hammer...BANG
> 
> Whew...That's a lot of work....And it makes it a lot harder to be accurate....Because it requires a lot more force on the trigger...
> 
> Unless your double action (DA) revolver is double action only (DAO)
> you can shoot it single action (SA)....
> 
> To shoot a DA revolver or a SA revolver single action, Thumb back the hammer....aim, and pull the trigger.....
> 
> By doing this, your thumb does the hard work of c0cking your gun, rotating the cylinder, and retracting and dropping the hand...
> 
> All that's left is a much lighter trigger pull...
> 
> Once you have mastered SA shooting, you can play with DA shooting...
> 
> Empty your gun, look at it in side view, and you will see the hand right under the cylinder...
> 
> Pull the trigger from the hammer down position....Become aware of all the actions taking place as you cycle the gun...
> 
> Hand drops,
> hammer comes back,
> cylinder turns,
> hand comes up,
> gun fires......
> 
> All of these things taking place in perfect order and alignment is called the timing of your revolver....
> 
> As you pull the trigger, you will feel the effort of pulling the trigger change....depending on what part of the cycle it is in...
> 
> You will eventually begin to feel when the hand has locked the cylinder, and the gun is just about to fire....
> 
> When you can feel this happen every time, you will know when to take your best aim, and follow through...
> 
> Of course if you have a bear coming at you, just point and pull real fast...


Thanks Woodchuck,

I'm going to print this and take it with me. By your description mine is a double action. I did not **** the trigger with my thumb, because I wanted to pretend it was a real life situation, and get a feel for the gun. The Ladies S&W's trigger feels a lot easier, and I'm not accurate with it either. My hand was waving all over the place:corkysm60: like the smily face!

I can see how pulling the trigger back with my thumb then aiming would help the accuracy, if I could get my hands to be still. But they say that in the case of a home invasion, the target is pretty close, and it won't be that hard to be accurate. Hope it never happens, but want to be ready if it does.


----------



## Forest

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> So I pull the trigger slowly, and I will hear two clicks, then I stop and realign my target with my sights? Then I pull the trigger the rest of the way?


Glad to hear you're mostly shooting with a Smith and Wesson, most familiar there.

Now I've not shot a "ladies" model, but I would think the timing on all Smith's is similar. Assuming the revolver is in proper working order, and you are shooting double action (pulling the trigger the entire time) there should be two subtle clicks as the revolver's cylinder spins. The first is moving the cylinder ahead to the next chamber, the second is when it locks into place for firing.

Using all due care to make sure the revolver is unloaded and safe, it is fine to "dry fire" that revolver to get a feel for the action. Point it toward the floor, and slowly (but with some strength) pull that trigger and listen for the two clicks. On that second click, the hammer should be back, and the cylinder locked into place while you keep the pressure on the trigger. Feel that cylinder with your off hand. Locked, ready to fire.

Practice that until you can readily get to the point you hear the "click-click", then stop without letting the hammer drop. This is when you get that final sight alignment on the front sight. That front sight should be level and right in the middle of the rear sights.

Keep your eye on that front sight. Your target will be blurry, but the center of it should still be easy to discern. Front sight right in the center. You know how only a slight and easy pull on the trigger to drop that hammer.

So, practice that timing with the empty gun. Wait for the "click-click", THEN get your good sight alignment. It will take a while for the muscles in your arms to develop memory to hold still, but not long.


----------



## Chuck71

Woodchuck said:


> My city girl wife turned up her nose at rabbits...Then she would sit down at the table, and eat a whole one....She said "it tastes a lot better than it sounds".....I loved those late season 3/4 grown cottontails...They had never eaten anything but soybean sprouts and momma's milk....Tender and tasty...
> 
> We visited a friend once. He had a big platter of meat fried up on the table. We sat down and ate out fill, then told the wife it was bull frog....She thought for a second and said "Well it's GOOD bullfrog" and ate another leg....She was a city girl, but not a stupid city girl....


LOL .... Back in the early 50's mom was still in grade school. Her dad hunted food pretty often.

Her mom placed food on the table, she ate it. Her dad waited until she was finished to tell her

it was "brains n eggs" ..... she bolted for the bathroom. She might have been raised in the country but

was more city.


----------



## Fozzy

RandomDude said:


> Ey? What happened to the purity of unarmed combat?


Unarmed combat with a rattlesnake rarely works out well.


----------



## Woodchuck

Chuck71 said:


> LOL .... Back in the early 50's mom was still in grade school. Her dad hunted food pretty often.
> 
> Her mom placed food on the table, she ate it. Her dad waited until she was finished to tell her
> 
> it was "brains n eggs" ..... she bolted for the bathroom. She might have been raised in the country but
> 
> was more city.


Brains and eggs was a big deal in St. Louis....They actually had sandwich shops that sold nothing else...Brains and eggs scrambled together, on bread with mustard and dill pickle...Not bad....

Andrew Zimmern from Bizarre Foods did a show there, and was actually able to scrounge up a brain and egg sandwich....


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Thanks Woodchuck,
> 
> I'm going to print this and take it with me. By your description mine is a double action. I did not **** the trigger with my thumb, because I wanted to pretend it was a real life situation, and get a feel for the gun. The Ladies S&W's trigger feels a lot easier, and I'm not accurate with it either. My hand was waving all over the place:corkysm60: like the smily face!
> 
> I can see how pulling the trigger back with my thumb then aiming would help the accuracy, if I could get my hands to be still. But they say that in the case of a home invasion, the target is pretty close, and it won't be that hard to be accurate. Hope it never happens, but want to be ready if it does.


Try it both ways at the range. You will find that pulling the hammer back can be done as you bring the gun up to eye level, it becomes second nature....After you fire the gun, you thumb back the hammer as it comes down from recoil...by the time you regain your sight picture you are ready to fire again...

You will get better with holding the front site on target, and learning to squeeze the trigger as the sights and target align...

Muscles develop, and you learn to control your breathing....

Learn to hit well slow fire....When you master that, speed comes rather easily....

It is nothing like on TV or the movies, It is a real skill, and you can be proud when you have mastered it....You have already learned a lot, and knowledge is the first thing you need......


----------



## jorgegene

i had a friend some years ago who had a colt 45 and did his own loading.

a colt 45 has a pretty healthy kick even factory loads, but this friend liked to load some 'hot' ammo.

i was used to firing 38, 45 acp, and even once in a while 44 mag, and even though he warned me, i wasn't ready for it.

I fired at the tree (in the woods) and that son of a gun kicked back hard a lot harder than i was ready
and the hammer hit me square in the forehead.
didn't knock me out, but did stun me a bit. 

made sure that wouldn't happen again


----------



## As'laDain

for anyone who wants to practice for REALLY cheap, and practically anywhere...
(though there is an upfront cost...)


Home Page

one of the best shooters i ever met turned me onto them. i have noticed that as i practice with them, i get better pretty quick. it will let you know what you are doing wrong very quickly. basically, it just fires a couple lasers, one that shows you how your aiming as you begin to pull the trigger, and another for when you actually pull the trigger. that is all you really need in order to see if you are aiming properly. it has no recoil, but hey, once you get it, its free to practice with and you dont need a range. 

here is a youtube review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0TVwCBCbbo


----------



## Woodchuck

jorgegene said:


> i had a friend some years ago who had a colt 45 and did his own loading.
> 
> a colt 45 has a pretty healthy kick even factory loads, but this friend liked to load some 'hot' ammo.
> 
> i was used to firing 38, 45 acp, and even once in a while 44 mag, and even though he warned me, i wasn't ready for it.
> 
> I fired at the tree (in the woods) and that son of a gun kicked back hard a lot harder than i was ready
> and the hammer hit me square in the forehead.
> didn't knock me out, but did stun me a bit.
> 
> made sure that wouldn't happen again


It is never a good idea to let someone shoot heavy loads without working up to them...A typical .44 magnum, load is a 240 grain bullet at around 1,300 feet per second......

Loading a 310 grain bullet at the same speed increases the recoil exponentially...It takes a seasoned shooter to handle something like that...

I once let a co worker shoot my heavy 12 GA load....I shot it on a weekly basis, and it was not really that bad, but I thought he was going to cry after shooting one.....And that's after being told...THIS IS MY HEAVY LOAD....:surprise:


----------



## jorgegene

speaking of heavy loads, when the casull .454 first came out (250gr/1,900ft/sec.), it was the heaviest caliber revolver at the time.
was considered a grizzly bear gun. 

practitioners needed to use leather gloves to target shoot, and was supposedly painful even with that.
according to guns n ammo article i read, range shooters could only handle a limited amount of practice rounds before getting really sore.

now casull has a genuine .500 cal and i think desert eagle offers in semi auto-.500, also, old hat.


----------



## Woodchuck

jorgegene said:


> speaking of heavy loads, when the casull .454 first came out (250gr/1,900ft/sec.), it was the heaviest caliber revolver at the time.
> was considered a grizzly bear gun.
> 
> practitioners needed to use leather gloves to target shoot, and was supposedly painful even with that.
> according to guns n ammo article i read, range shooters could only handle a limited amount of practice rounds before getting really sore.
> 
> now casull has a genuine .500 cal and i think desert eagle offers in semi auto-.500, also, old hat.


The Desert Eagle is a big ol pu$$y cat...The gun is so heavy, the recoil is not bad at all....

My heavy .44 mag load is as heavy as I care to shoot...In a ported Redhawk with a scope and rubber grips, you don't notice recoil....about 1100 lb. ft. of energy....In a 4 5/8" Blackhawk, not ported, and factory grips....Just totally brutal....


----------



## SadSamIAm

A little gun safety lesson I learned when shooting a handgun.

I was at my buddies house. His family were avid gun collectors. Had tons of different handguns. We would stand in his garage and shoot out the window into a field (he was on a farm) that had a bunch of targets at different distances.

Anyhow he was shooting a 22 semi automatic. When the gun fired, the back of the pistol flew open and the empty shell would discharge. One time he shot and the bullet didn't go off. A couple of seconds later he discharged the bullet out of the gun. It went off when it was inside his hand. It went between his fingers ( so it barely marked him at all ), passed right in front of me and out the wall of the garage. One of us could have been shot.

So .... if you happen to be firing a gun and the shell doesn't go off. Be careful where you point the gun and don't take the shell out for a longer period of time. Not sure what is recommended as I haven't shot a gun in 25 years, but I am guessing maybe 30 seconds or a minute.


----------



## Woodchuck

SadSamIAm said:


> A little gun safety lesson I learned when shooting a handgun.
> 
> I was at my buddies house. His family were avid gun collectors. Had tons of different handguns. We would stand in his garage and shoot out the window into a field (he was on a farm) that had a bunch of targets at different distances.
> 
> Anyhow he was shooting a 22 semi automatic. When the gun fired, the back of the pistol flew open and the empty shell would discharge. One time he shot and the bullet didn't go off. A couple of seconds later he discharged the bullet out of the gun. It went off when it was inside his hand. It went between his fingers ( so it barely marked him at all ), passed right in front of me and out the wall of the garage. One of us could have been shot.
> 
> So .... if you happen to be firing a gun and the shell doesn't go off. Be careful where you point the gun and don't take the shell out for a longer period of time. Not sure what is recommended as I haven't shot a gun in 25 years, but I am guessing maybe 30 seconds or a minute.


This is called a "Hang fire" I have never seen one, but they do happen...

Another heads up...

If you fire a gun, and the sound is much less than it should have been, or almost no recoil, unload and check down the barrel for a lodged bullet...

Sometimes the powder charge is too light, and the bullet doesn't clear the barrel...

Firing another shot with the barrel blocked is very dangerous...

I always keep a heavy copper rod in my range box. I have saved some range trips with it...


----------



## RandomDude

Haven't fired a gun for over a decade thanks to the gun laws, when I was a kid used to be able to pull apart and put back together my 1911 in my sleep, though I owned it illegally. Never used it on anyone though, even while on the hunt (used .22 hornets and .308 rifles instead), was more of a toy for me. I loved the design, balance, weight, and firepower. I always wondered why you guys abandoned it in favor of the Beretta. 

I also can't stand revolvers, especially compared to the 1911 where it's almost a hair-trigger. Much steadier aim at ranges when my grip is more relaxed, instead of the trigger having to pull the hammer back every freakin' shot, the more I squeeze, the more wobbly my aim.

Only gun that made me go "ack! recoil" was firing an over/under, first time I fired one I almost broke my shoulder as I didn't hold it properly.


----------



## Woodchuck

RandomDude said:


> Haven't fired a gun for over a decade thanks to the gun laws, when I was a kid used to be able to pull apart and put back together my 1911 in my sleep, though I owned it illegally. Never used it on anyone though, even while on the hunt (used .22 hornets and .308 rifles instead), was more of a toy for me. I loved the design, balance, weight, and firepower. I always wondered why you guys abandoned it in favor of the Beretta.
> 
> I also can't stand revolvers, especially compared to the 1911 where it's almost a hair-trigger. Much steadier aim at ranges when my grip is more relaxed, instead of the trigger having to pull the hammer back every freakin' shot, the more I squeeze, the more wobbly my aim.
> 
> Only gun that made me go "ack! recoil" was firing an over/under, first time I fired one I almost broke my shoulder as I didn't hold it properly.


I have a 1911 built in 1916, the year my dad was born. It was not collector grade so I had the slide dovetailed, and a target front sight installed, also a target rear sight and a match grade sear and hammer. The trigger pull is much improved. 

I also own a hornet, made by C.Z. (BRNO). It is extremely accurate. I have several revolvers, One a Ruger .44 special. I have done some trigger work on it and it is really nice....

Have you tried shooting a double action revolver single action, or were you shooting a double action only revolver...My favorite shotgun is a Beretta Silver Snipe, it is a 12 GA. O/U....


----------



## RandomDude

For me, firing them single action kinda ruins it having to manually pull the hammer back each time. With firearms I normally find the sweet spot in trigger pulls before firing but with revolvers, especially with double action .44s holding the trigger at the sweet spot makes it too difficult to aim compared to semi-autos like the 1911.

I never liked them, even if they can be fired single action. Not to mention it's a real b-tch to reload. Got a boar charging at me I'd rely on my 1911 anyday over a .44 revolver.

Overall though, I still prefer rifles, probably because it's what I'm used to during hunts since we were at 100m+ ranges anyway.


----------



## Adelais

Woodchuck said:


> This is called a "Hang fire" I have never seen one, but they do happen...
> 
> Another heads up...
> 
> If you fire a gun, and the sound is much less than it should have been, or almost no recoil, unload and check down the barrel for a lodged bullet...
> 
> Sometimes the powder charge is too light, and the bullet doesn't clear the barrel...
> 
> Firing another shot with the barrel blocked is very dangerous...
> 
> I always keep a heavy copper rod in my range box. I have saved some range trips with it...


Can you post a picture of your range box? With a list of what goes in it? Where can I find a heavy copper rod?

thx


----------



## Woodchuck

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Can you post a picture of your range box? With a list of what goes in it? Where can I find a heavy copper rod?
> 
> thx


My range box is HUGE....It is a plastic bin with a pull out handle like a suit case, and rollers on the other end....

It contains:
targets
a stapler for targets
staples
small screw drivers
several small allen wrenches for scope rings and bases
lots of ear plugs
a couple of pairs of shooting glasses
2 pairs of shooting muffs
duct tape
range rod (8" or longer rod of 5/16" brass or copper) ebay has them...just search 5/16 brass rod
gun oil
shop towels or paper towels
insect repellent/sun screen
lens cleaners for scopes

Just throw in the pistols and ammo you will be using, and go....

My box is like this one...You probably won't need one as large...

Dewalt Rolling Toolbox with Wheels Portable Contracter Chest Storage Tool Box | eBay


----------



## Woodchuck

RandomDude said:


> For me, firing them single action kinda ruins it having to manually pull the hammer back each time. With firearms I normally find the sweet spot in trigger pulls before firing but with revolvers, especially with double action .44s holding the trigger at the sweet spot makes it too difficult to aim compared to semi-autos like the 1911.
> 
> I never liked them, even if they can be fired single action. Not to mention it's a real b-tch to reload. Got a boar charging at me I'd rely on my 1911 anyday over a .44 revolver.
> 
> Overall though, I still prefer rifles, probably because it's what I'm used to during hunts since we were at 100m+ ranges anyway.


The .45 auto is not heavy enough for boar the standard load is 
850 ft/s and 369 ft·lb of energy...It is not recommended even for deer...

A moderate .44 special load, 240 gr. bullet @ 1100 fps yields 645 foot lbs of energy...An outstanding white tail load out to 100 yards....I have shot hundreds of rounds of this load at 100 yards....

It works well in my Rossi 720 DA as well as my Blackhawk SA....

A heavy .44 magnum load with a 310 gr. bullet @ 1300 fps gives over 1,100 ft lbs of energy....A bear, elk, or moose load....This load will penetrate a boar side ways or long ways...


----------



## BBF

Yes. At 30 feet, 7 rounds of .45 from a 1911.


----------



## Woodchuck

BBF said:


> Yes. At 30 feet, 7 rounds of .45 from a 1911.


That should clear the hallway of intruders.....What kind of 1911 do you shoot?


----------



## BBF

It's a Springfield Armory 1911 A1. Has custom grips but nothing else fancy and no accurizing...this one was just inherently accurate out of the box. 

I believe the 1911 to be the best sidearm ever created. And, it's what I trained on, used and kept at my side after the Army issued those damned girly guns (9mm Berettas) to most of the GIs. 

Frankly, if our cops used .45s, they wouldn't be shooting thugs 16 times and engendering the bad PR attendant to what appears to be "excessive" force.


----------



## Woodchuck

BBF said:


> It's a Springfield Armory 1911 A1. Has custom grips but nothing else fancy and no accurizing...this one was just inherently accurate out of the box.
> 
> I believe the 1911 to be the best sidearm ever created. And, it's what I trained on, used and kept at my side after the Army issued those damned girly guns (9mm Berettas) to most of the GIs.
> 
> Frankly, if our cops used .45s, they wouldn't be shooting thugs 16 times and engendering the bad PR attendant to what appears to be "excessive" force.


I was thinking that just this afternoon...The only 9mm I would own is a Luger or Browning hi-power, and then only as jewelry....I put a Chip McCormic hammer and sear kit in my 1911. It gives it a really good trigger pull...One shot one kill should be the goal....I carry .44's and .45's....


----------



## BBF

I carry a Springfield SDX .45. At 5'10" and 175, I'm just not big enough to hide/conceal a 1911. Actually, not sure that Andre the Giant is big enough to conceal a 1911.


----------



## RandomDude

Woodchuck said:


> The .45 auto is not heavy enough for boar the standard load is
> 850 ft/s and 369 ft·lb of energy...It is not recommended even for deer...
> 
> A moderate .44 special load, 240 gr. bullet @ 1100 fps yields 645 foot lbs of energy...An outstanding white tail load out to 100 yards....I have shot hundreds of rounds of this load at 100 yards....
> 
> It works well in my Rossi 720 DA as well as my Blackhawk SA....
> 
> A heavy .44 magnum load with a 310 gr. bullet @ 1300 fps gives over 1,100 ft lbs of energy....A bear, elk, or moose load....This load will penetrate a boar side ways or long ways...


Really? A .45 won't penetrate a boar?!

Hell I met some folks who hunt them with bows, but a 1911 won't penetrate?

Argh, good thing I've stuck to my rifles then, cause no way I'm going to rely on a revolver instead.


----------



## Woodchuck

RandomDude said:


> Really? A .45 won't penetrate a boar?!
> 
> Hell I met some folks who hunt them with bows, but a 1911 won't penetrate?
> 
> Argh, good thing I've stuck to my rifles then, cause no way I'm going to rely on a revolver instead.


There are boars and there are boars.....Lots of people carry a 45 as a backup, or to finish off a downed hog...One guy said he had a stand, shot feral pigs at 35 feet...140-170 lb pigs.....Just about the size of animal it was designed for...But where the range might be 75 yards and the pig might be 300 lbs, I would use a .44 or a rifle


----------



## BBF

RandomDude said:


> Really? A .45 won't penetrate a boar?!
> 
> Hell I met some folks who hunt them with bows, but a 1911 won't penetrate?
> 
> Argh, good thing I've stuck to my rifles then, cause no way I'm going to rely on a revolver instead.


Hell, I've hunted boar with a spear, but always had a friend with a .44 mag at my side just in case. In Texas, they hunt them with knives, and that's just a bit too stupid even for me.


----------



## Deguello

As a US Marine I qualified with a .45 1911,M-14,and m16 and the m92 Berreta,I. Currently own and carry a Glock 23. 40,-,I've been carryingfor a decade,have not had to shoot anyone here,I prefer to keep it that way,I don't need the collateral pain that goes without.


----------



## Woodchuck

Deguello said:


> As a US Marine I qualified with a .45 1911,M-14,and m16 and the m92 Berreta,I. Currently own and carry a Glock 23. 40,-,I've been carryingfor a decade,have not had to shoot anyone here,I prefer to keep it that way,I don't need the collateral pain that goes without.


I think every person that choses to carry is like hiring another police officer....We really don't need more traffic tickets, we need protection from criminals.....


----------



## CopperTop

Woodchuck said:


> I think every person that choses to carry is like hiring another police officer....We really don't need more traffic tickets, we need protection from criminals.....


My wife and I both carry, and have for years. Neither of us have ever drawn our weapon in anger, but we never go anywhere without them. 

You have a No Weapons sign on your door? You don't get our business. If I have to walk back to the car to put away my weapon, I might as well find another place to shop. We live in the #10 county in the US for CCWs per Capita. Everyone is polite and crime is very low, and most business welcome CCW carriers because all the bad guys know there is likely to be at least one person in there armed.

I firmly believe that MORE people should be trained to carry.


----------



## Woodchuck

CopperTop said:


> My wife and I both carry, and have for years. Neither of us have ever drawn our weapon in anger, but we never go anywhere without them.
> 
> You have a No Weapons sign on your door? You don't get our business. If I have to walk back to the car to put away my weapon, I might as well find another place to shop. We live in the #10 county in the US for CCWs per Capita. Everyone is polite and crime is very low, and most business welcome CCW carriers because all the bad guys know there is likely to be at least one person in there armed.
> 
> I firmly believe that MORE people should be trained to carry.


Wow...Talking like that, you might wind up in my will....

Citizens should realize their lifestyle is not a given, and having the courage and resolve to take up some slack on their end is rare and thoroughly welcome......A real man does not waste his time proving the fact....He just is, and knows it...


----------



## Fozzy

Deguello said:


> As a US Marine I qualified with a .45 1911,M-14,and m16 and the m92 Berreta,I. Currently own and carry a Glock 23. 40,-,I've been carryingfor a decade,have not had to shoot anyone here,I prefer to keep it that way,I don't need the collateral pain that goes without.


Glock .40 is a nice weapon. That would be my druthers if money wasn't an object. Which unfortunately it is.


----------



## CopperTop

Woodchuck said:


> Citizens should realize their lifestyle is not a given, and having the courage and resolve to take up some slack on their end is rare and thoroughly welcome......A real man does not waste his time proving the fact....He just is, and knows it...



It comes down to safety. I will do whatever it takes to protect myself, those I care for, and those around me. Since I can't carry a policeman, I carry a weapon. We don't make a big show out of it and most people would never know we carry. C2 has a purse with a holster built in and I carry with a tuckable holster so my weapon is never visible.

It is a little know fact that the police have no DUTY to protect you. You are expected to defend yourself, and I want to have the tools at my disposal to do that if necessary.

Don't believe me? Read this.


----------



## Woodchuck

CopperTop said:


> It comes down to safety. I will do whatever it takes to protect myself, those I care for, and those around me. Since I can't carry a policeman, I carry a weapon. We don't make a big show out of it and most people would never know we carry. C2 has a purse with a holster built in and I carry with a tuckable holster so my weapon is never visible.
> 
> It is a little know fact that the police have no DUTY to protect you. You are expected to defend yourself, and I want to have the tools at my disposal to do that if necessary.
> 
> Don't believe me? Read this.


I will say, in the town where I live, the police are prompt and decisive......Pulling a weapon on an officer in my town will not result in a trial....

Knowing that, I still choose to remain armed, and if a store will not allow me to carry...They do not need my business....

My motto is "Your police department....When seconds count, we are only minutes away"....


----------



## CopperTop

Woodchuck said:


> My motto is "Your police department....When seconds count, we are only minutes away"....


We also have a great police force and I have enormous respect for first responders. I live in a small town that is very safe, and my daughter did a ride along for two weeks for a school project.

What you say is true of all police forces. They can't be everywhere all the time, so you have to ready to take of yourself and extend those seconds to minutes if required.

<ETA>
I had a friend express surprise that I carried because of my laid back personality. Anyway, she asked, "What if they take your gun away from you and kill you with it?"

To which I replied, "They will have to beat me to death with it, then, because it will be empty."
</ETA>


----------



## unbelievable

CopperTop said:


> We also have a great police force and I have enormous respect for first responders. I live in a small town that is very safe, and my daughter did a ride along for two weeks for a school project.
> 
> What you say is true of all police forces. They can't be everywhere all the time, so you have to ready to take of yourself and extend those seconds to minutes if required.


I am extremely proud of my department's response time. I doubt many police departments can match it. From time of dispatch, we can get almost everywhere in town, running hot, within 5 minutes. The trouble is, from the time you call 911 until the call is dispatched, frequently 5-10 minutes pass. That means you are likely to wait 10-15 minutes for a cop, even if they aren't on a call and they are just eagerly waiting for your's, all roads are clear, the officer is intimately familiar with the roads, the officer's car doesn't break down or become involved in a crash on the way. An awful lot of ugliness can happen in 10 minutes. 

A police station is only three miles from my house and I am a cop. There's no way I'd completely leave my family's safety in the hands of the police. Our fire department is pretty good, too, but I also have a fire extinguisher, smoke detector, and a plan to get my family out of harm's way before they show up.


----------



## CopperTop

unbelievable said:


> A police station is only three miles from my house and I am a cop.



Thank you for your service.


----------



## Chuck71

I attended high school in the late 80's. It was nothing for one of us to bring a gun / rifle to school to show the assistant principal. In plain sight in front of dozens of people. No one thought a thing of it. Now if I worked as a bagboy / stocker and left my box cutter in my back seat... and anyone saw it and reported it, I am in a world of poop. Suspension or expulsion, if you take part in any group or sport.... that's over, and if you have a pending scholarship, that could possibly be in jeopardy.

I live in a small town in TN as well. The west side of the county is the "new and upwardly mobile" section which is the eastern end of a metro area. The east side... where I am is rural farmland. More people carry in my area. Many carry without permits. A common belief is why should they... being their parents and especially grandparents always carried (may find supper on way home).

A common saying is, "When guns were permitted everywhere, there was very little crime. When guns were controlled, there is a lot more crime." The proportion of crime in my county is 75% western and 25% eastern. In the county to the east.... completely rural. Some small communities in the mountains.... people carry without permit and keep them in plain sight. Only crime they have is people making meth.

I'll take the countryside any day.


----------



## flyer

I have several guns and shoot regularly.
I also have my CCL and have a gun on or within reach at ALL times.
I really like the Ruger LC9 for carry. I keep some FNX-9's around the house and in the vehicles.
Oh, and I'm partial to Marlin lever rifles, got some of them too.:grin2:


----------



## flyer

Chuck71 said:


> I attended high school in the late 80's. It was nothing for one of us to bring a gun / rifle to school to show the assistant principal. In plain sight in front of dozens of people. No one thought a thing of it. Now if I worked as a bagboy / stocker and left my box cutter in my back seat... and anyone saw it and reported it, I am in a world of poop. Suspension or expulsion, if you take part in any group or sport.... that's over, and if you have a pending scholarship, that could possibly be in jeopardy.
> 
> I live in a small town in TN as well. The west side of the county is the "new and upwardly mobile" section which is the eastern end of a metro area. The east side... where I am is rural farmland. More people carry in my area. Many carry without permits. A common belief is why should they... being their parents and especially grandparents always carried (may find supper on way home).
> 
> A common saying is, "When guns were permitted everywhere, there was very little crime. When guns were controlled, there is a lot more crime." The proportion of crime in my county is 75% western and 25% eastern. In the county to the east.... completely rural. Some small communities in the mountains.... people carry without permit and keep them in plain sight. Only crime they have is people making meth.
> 
> I'll take the countryside any day.



Yeah, I attended high school in the 70's. It was nothing to bring guns, or any other tool for that matter, to school.


----------



## Pam

Wow, good work!

I had to come back here and be among "my people" after being basically attacked in another forum for simply mentioning that I own a handgun. I am a threat to humanity, I tell you.

Oops! I must have missed a page. I was referring to the picture of the target.


----------



## Woodchuck

Pam said:


> Wow, good work!
> 
> I had to come back here and be among "my people" after being basically attacked in another forum for simply mentioning that I own a handgun. I am a threat to humanity, I tell you.
> 
> Oops! I must have missed a page. I was referring to the picture of the target.


Isn't it refreshing to bask in the warmth of a group of heavily armed, eminently polite and friendly folks......

I have made so many friends by sharing the shooting hobby....


----------



## Avogadro

As a father of two, I saw it as my responsibility to both educate and train my girls in the use of firearms. Starting at 8 years old, we would do closely supervised target shooting with a cricket 22. They found it great fun and it was a good way to spend quality time with my daughters. They are both slightly built girls, so we waited until 12-13 to start with handguns, 1911, Colt Ace, Smith 38 police. and another year for 12ga shotguns.

The early exposure took away the mystery of firearms and satisfied their natural curiosity. After I was sure they had both learned and understood the 6 safety rules of firearms I would occasionally test them. I had a junk revolver with no firing pin, I would leave it lying in random places to see what they would do. They would always tell me where it was and not touch it. After the first dozen times they would just roll their eyes haha.

One daughter, now 18 competes in trap shooting. The other seems to have no interest but routinely mocks people suggesting banning guns in the US is the solution to crime. I'm pleased with how they turned out


----------



## RandomDude

unbelievable said:


> I am extremely proud of my department's response time. I doubt many police departments can match it. From time of dispatch, we can get almost everywhere in town, running hot, within 5 minutes. The trouble is, from the time you call 911 until the call is dispatched, frequently 5-10 minutes pass. That means you are likely to wait 10-15 minutes for a cop, even if they aren't on a call and they are just eagerly waiting for your's, all roads are clear, the officer is intimately familiar with the roads, the officer's car doesn't break down or become involved in a crash on the way. An awful lot of ugliness can happen in 10 minutes.


Where I live the response time is around 120 minutes.


----------



## 2ndchanceGuy

I"m surprised this thread has slowed. 
I have my CCL and shoot a couple times a month. 
I plan to buy a couple more hand guns in the next year. 
Can't let your guard down these days. I carry most of the time.


----------



## ExiledBayStater

Banning the OP usually slows down a thread.

On that note, I need to say the instructor who taught my Personal Protection in the Home class does not advise shooting a revolver single action as has been suggested here. Overzealous prosecutors may find a way to use that against you. The owner of the local gun store goes one step further. She advises against carrying or keeping for defense any revolver with a spurred hammer, and she refuses to stock them. I guess I'll have to go to the big stores an hour away to find the model I'm considering.


----------



## Pam

What happened to the OP? I don't keep up a lot, I guess.

My shooting will be cut back for a while, my "shooting partner"/daughter is having surgery on her wrist and will be in a cast for six weeks. I have a manager who will bring his pistol in and go with me if work slows down, so I may get to go a few times. I don't really like going alone, even though the people at the range are really friendly and helpful. I'm just an extreme introvert.


----------



## Thundarr

My oldest son just bought me a 9mm Ruger pistol for Christmas. He spent too much on me but I love it and will be at the range soon.


----------



## ExiledBayStater

Pam said:


> What happened to the OP? I don't keep up a lot, I guess.


He got caught with multiple user accounts.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I have the ability to shoot rifles, shotguns and handguns. I have 2 handguns now: Ruger GP100 chambered in 357 mag (can also fire the 38 and 38+P) and a Glock model 22 in 40 SW. If I wanted to, I could buy a 357 SIG barrel and make 2 guns out of 1 but see no reason to have a 357 SIG (I don't get why it is needed in the market place tbh).

ETA: For home defense, your best bet is a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buck shot - preferably with a 6 - 8 shell capacity. For CC, best handgun is the one you shoot the best that is also reasonable to carry around. Don't matter if it's 380, 38, 357, 40, 45 or even a 22, if you cannot shoot accurately with a reasonable rate of fire, then the sexiest handgun round will be of no use if you can't hit what you're aiming at.


----------



## arbitrator

*As an overseer at a midsize Texas ranch, I do not have any kind of firearm on the place other than a pellet gun!

But I am capable of shooting one if forced to!

My main concern is keeping firearms out of the hands of people who have no business having them!

And while I applaud people's rights to own and carry guns, I am from a genre that believes that gun owners and non-gun owners must come together to work out effective, reasonable plans to try to keep them out of the purchasing hands of psychos, terrorists, and the criminal element!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ExiledBayStater

I just ordered a pellet revolver for backyard plinking between trips to the range. The only thing it's missing is the recoil and loud bang.


----------



## Thundarr

arbitrator said:


> *
> And while I applaud people's rights to own and carry guns, I am from a genre that believes that gun owners and non-gun owners must come together to work out effective, reasonable plans to try to keep them out of the purchasing hands of psychos, terrorists, and the criminal element!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree but good luck finding common ground that anyone will consider. Stances are so postured.


----------



## ExiledBayStater

The pellet revolver got here. 1/3 of the time I hit what I was trying to hit. 2/3 of the time the pellet gets stuck in the barrel. Need to find a new pellet, which is very discouraging since the pellets I ordered with the gun were Sig Sauer licenced. I have another tin of pellets coming next week which I've read good things about online.

I went to Wal Mart to try to talk to the guy at the gun counter. He told me he had never met anybody who owned a pellet revolver. While I was waiting to talk to him, the guy in front of me was fondling a rifle and muzzle-sweeping the poor souls who were walking around in the neighboring home goods department. I was afraid somebody was going to draw and fire on him (and by extension, me).


----------



## D.H Mosquito

No offence intended just thought it was a funny highlighter on the subject of our gun control differences


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## ExiledBayStater

D.H Mosquito said:


> No offence intended just thought it was a funny highlighter on the subject of our gun control differences


All fine and good, but you need magazines, not clips 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71

ExiledBayStater said:


> All fine and good, but you need magazines, not clips
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


100% agree..... But if you want to get technical, encyclopedias are better than magazines


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## ExiledBayStater

Chuck71 said:


> 100% agree..... But if you want to get technical, encyclopedias are better than magazines


Encyclopedia over the head would knock out any intruder!


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## Marc878

Woodchuck said:


> Congrats on the shoes.
> 
> I have been immersed in firearms since I was 5, so when I buy a gun, it might be because I read an article about it 50 years ago...Or in the case of a Colt 1911, just because it is such a historical icon...
> 
> My 1911 was made by Colt in 1916, for WWI and still shoots very well...
> 
> I like long range rifles, and usually shoot them over sand bags...I have a Ruger #1V in 25-06, and a Winchester model 70 in .270 (another icon).
> 
> For shooting targets I like single shots, but I have an AR 15 for home defense, along with my 45, and my .44 magnum, and my 2 .44 specials, and...You get the picture habit forming...
> 
> I have a nice 200 yard range about 10 miles away, but don't get out as often as I would like......Shoot safe...


I have a pre 1963 Winchester model 70 in the same caliber just gave my colt 1911A .45 to my oldest son.


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## chillymorn

arbitrator said:


> *As an overseer at a midsize Texas ranch, I do not have any kind of firearm on the place other than a pellet gun!
> 
> But I am capable of shooting one if forced to!
> 
> My main concern is keeping firearms out of the hands of people who have no business having them!
> 
> And while I applaud people's rights to own and carry guns, I am from a genre that believes that gun owners and non-gun owners must come together to work out effective, reasonable plans to try to keep them out of the purchasing hands of psychos, terrorists, and the criminal element!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


sounds like double talk to me.


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## arbitrator

chillymorn said:


> sounds like double talk to me.


*Far from it, my dear!

If the pellet gun doesn't solve sudden problems that arise, then my neighbor ranchers aren't real far away to call in for help!

I was offered a rifle to have to stay out here! I declined! I have other means of self-protection that I can rely on! My choice of not owning a firearm is strictly a personal preference!

Like me, my rural neighbors almost universally abhor the thought of deranged people being able to "willy-nilly" purchase firearms just because they can, but the gun sellers seem all too happy to oblige them!

The way I see it, if a bartender sells you enough booze to get you so drunk where if you get situated behind the wheel of a vehicle to the point that you go out and kill one or even half-dozen innocents, if you get hit up on manslaughter or intent to commit murder charges, by the County Prosecutor, then so should the barkeep!

It really ought to work the very same way with firearms! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn

arbitrator said:


> *Far from it, my dear!
> 
> If the pellet gun doesn't solve sudden problems that arise, then my neighbor ranchers aren't real far away to call in for help!
> 
> I was offered a rifle to have to stay out here! I declined! I have other means of self-protection that I can rely on! My choice of not owning a firearm is strictly a personal preference!
> 
> Like me, my rural neighbors almost universally abhor the thought of deranged people being able to "willy-nilly" purchase firearms just because they can, but the gun sellers seem all too happy to oblige them!
> 
> The way I see it, if a bartender sells you enough booze to get you so drunk where if you get situated behind the wheel of a vehicle to the point that you go out and kill one or even half-dozen innocents, if you get hit up on manslaughter or intent to commit murder charges, by the County Prosecutor, then so should the barkeep!
> 
> It really ought to work the very same way with firearms! *
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


should it work the same way with hammers and knives. how about cars. the bar tender and the car dealer should be held liable. 


violent crime is at an all time low as per fbi stasticitics. so your hyperbole statement of deranged people buying guns willy nilly seems odd to me.


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## Spotthedeaddog

CopperTop said:


> We also have a great police force and I have enormous respect for first responders. I live in a small town that is very safe, and my daughter did a ride along for two weeks for a school project.
> 
> What you say is true of all police forces. They can't be everywhere all the time, so you have to ready to take of yourself and extend those seconds to minutes if required.
> 
> <ETA>
> I had a friend express surprise that I carried because of my laid back personality. Anyway, she asked, "What if they take your gun away from you and kill you with it?"
> 
> To which I replied, "They will have to beat me to death with it, then, because it will be empty."
> </ETA>


then get an iron bar, an empty gun is more of a risk to yourself because it justifies lethal force against you, and legal "threaten to kill" lawsuits. If you have an empty gun, and they can get their hands on any weapon (knife, bar, brick, etc) and they decide you might shoot them so try to evade etc or play the hero in desperation, then they can _legally_ kill you. 
You'd be better of with a compressible baton, at least that would give you some defense, if you were attacked.


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## BetrayedDad

QUESTION: Never possessed or fired a gun.

Would like to own one for protection but would like some training first.

Where do I start? Where do I go? Do I buy the gun first or what?

Need some advice to get educated on the whole process.

Not looking for a hand cannon just something easy and effective.


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## IronhorseCowboy

I started shooting handguns at around 12 years old with a .22, then a .38, and graduated to a .357 by age 14. I practice once a year, which isn't enough in my opinion, but at least I get that.



BetrayedDad said:


> QUESTION: Never possessed or fired a gun.
> 
> Would like to own one for protection but would like some training first.
> 
> Where do I start? Where do I go? Do I buy the gun first or what?
> 
> Need some advice to get educated on the whole process.
> 
> Not looking for a hand cannon just something easy and effective.


Usually you purchase the firearm first and then use that for training. While there are some ranges that will allow you to rent a pistol for a concealed carry class that may be hosted there, but those are rare. 

I would suggest a Glock 19 or G34, both in 9mm or even a Glock G42 in .380, and definitely buy a good holster. Do not put any pistol in between the waist of your pants, but especially a Glock as the safety resides on the trigger. 

Lastly, do a Google search for any training in your area at a gun store, gun range, or from the NRA website. You could always go to a local sporting goods or gun store and ask.


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## ExiledBayStater

BetrayedDad said:


> QUESTION: Never possessed or fired a gun.
> 
> Would like to own one for protection but would like some training first.
> 
> Where do I start? Where do I go? Do I buy the gun first or what?
> 
> Need some advice to get educated on the whole process.
> 
> Not looking for a hand cannon just something easy and effective.


Commercial gun ranges offer introductory handgun classes with no pressure to join a club, and they have a wide variety of guns to rent for the class. Renting before you buy lets you get make an informed choice, it's a big purchase and potentially everything is at stake.

I recommend the NRA-sponsored "Personal Protection In The Home"
class to start.

There is a ton and a half of advice and opinions about how to protect yourself, ultimately you have to decide what advice to take and what to leave.


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## 41362

ExiledBayStater said:


> Commercial gun ranges offer introductory handgun classes with no pressure to join a club, and they have a wide variety of guns to rent for the class. Renting before you buy lets you get make an informed choice, it's a big purchase and potentially everything is at stake.
> 
> I recommend the NRA-sponsored "Personal Protection In The Home"
> class to start.
> 
> There is a ton and a half of advice and opinions about how to protect yourself, ultimately you have to decide what advice to take and what to leave.


Another route is basic hunter safety course for the basics. My daughter went through one provided by a local PD and it was fantastic.


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## ExiledBayStater

spotthedeaddog said:


> then get an iron bar, an empty gun is more of a risk to yourself because it justifies lethal force against you, and legal "threaten to kill" lawsuits. If you have an empty gun, and they can get their hands on any weapon (knife, bar, brick, etc) and they decide you might shoot them so try to evade etc or play the hero in desperation, then they can _legally_ kill you.
> You'd be better of with a compressible baton, at least that would give you some defense, if you were attacked.


The gun would be empty because it's been very recently discharged.


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## ConanHub

Yes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

MountainRunner said:


> LMAO!!! Puhleeze...really? Personally I think any man who hides behind a handgun is a coward.


????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## froggy7777

I own several and love to shoot. My wife has shot them but not really in to it. In this dangerous world that we live in I think its a good idea to own one and know how to use it and the wife too.


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## Luvher4life

I can shoot a flea off a cat's butt at 100 paces without grazing the cat..., so, yes, I know how to shoot!


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## froggy7777

I have several handguns. I'm not the best shot in the world but I belivesg




































I have several handguns. I'm not the best in the world but I believe I'm a fair shot. With the way the world situation is today I don't believe your a coward if you use a gun. If you don't want to have a gun or carry one that is your right but if your an expert in the use of your hands as weapons than go ahead and go up against a person carrying a gun but you better be close enough to do something. I carry all the time and yes I would use it if necessary, I have the legal authority to carry in every state in the the U S. I still practice. 










0


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## Sun Catcher

BetrayedDad said:


> QUESTION: Never possessed or fired a gun.
> 
> Would like to own one for protection but would like some training first.
> 
> Where do I start? Where do I go? Do I buy the gun first or what?
> 
> Need some advice to get educated on the whole process.
> 
> Not looking for a hand cannon just something easy and effective.


Before buying my first handgun I went to one of my local dealers who rented guns and had an indoor gun range. For the price of ammunition I was allowed to use their range and try all of the large array of guns they had. I first took a gun safety course and everyone there on my twice weekly visits was knowledgeable and helpful on my selection of guns I wanted to shoot. Of course, when I was comfortable with a certain caliber and model of fun I purchased my own. 

I continued frequenting this establishment and practicing and also obtained my concealed weapons permit. 

Learning and practice never finishes and I enjoy shooting targets, but have the knowledge and confidence that if I ever have to raise my gun at a person, it will be for good reason and since I am still not a great shot, I will aim for the middle of the chest with the knowledge that I am shooting to kill. 

My suggestion to you is find a local gun shop that offers training and has a shooting range. Don't buy a gun first, practice on many until you find the one that suits you best.


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## committed_guy

Sun Catcher said:


> Before buying my first handgun I went to one of my local dealers who rented guns and had an indoor gun range. For the price of ammunition I was allowed to use their range and try all of the large array of guns they had. I first took a gun safety course and everyone there on my twice weekly visits was knowledgeable and helpful on my selection of guns I wanted to shoot. Of course, when I was comfortable with a certain caliber and model of fun I purchased my own.
> 
> I continued frequenting this establishment and practicing and also obtained my concealed weapons permit.
> 
> Learning and practice never finishes and I enjoy shooting targets, but have the knowledge and confidence that if I ever have to raise my gun at a person, it will be for good reason and since I am still not a great shot, I will aim for the middle of the chest with the knowledge that I am shooting to kill.
> 
> My suggestion to you is find a local gun shop that offers training and has a shooting range. Don't buy a gun first, practice on many until you find the one that suits you best.


Spot on advice!

The NRA has a course called "NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course". Go to their web site and find a local trainer. This is a course with live fire and will help teach you how to shoot the right way. I learned a lot and the certification from it you can use to apply for some State's CCW permit.

After your purchase then keep up with it by shooting at least several times a year if you plan on using it for self defense.


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