# Here we go again! Wife wants me to move and change my career



## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, the inevitable was going to happen at some point and it's finally hit.

After over ten years of being away from where she grew up, my wife finally went on vacation to Illinois to see all her friends and family again and has become terribly homesick since returning and is asking for the better of our lives and relationship that we move back there.

My wife is completely fed up with where we live. The only family she feels she has is her Dad. She hates my family and her mother's side. She has terrible allergies from living here that make her feel miserable everyday. She feels she has no opportunities, no sense of community, and very few worthwhile friends to hold on to. She hates the type of culture in our state (California) and the people in general.

I am not exactly sure how we are going to do this. The biggest issue is my job situation. Moving would probably require me to change my career outright as there is little opportunity for the type of work I do outside of certain states. Given that I have invested almost ten years of my life in my current industry, I don't know how I am going to find the right job while keeping near the salary that I currently make and not having our quality of life suffer dramatically.

Even now, I only make enough to keep us paying the bills and living barely comfortable. I am the only one that works and there is never enough money to save for the long term or in emergencies on top of all the amount it takes to care for each of us and her two cousins that live with us. No vacations, no savings, no going out, nothing that can strain our current budget needs.

I tried to stay firm and say that I don't know how it was going to be possible. I offered to see a solution based therapist and we went to two sessions. Basically, the therapist believed that I am being neglectful to my wife's needs and have checked out of the relationship. She offered that I should see an individual counselor for possible depression then sent us on our way because she couldn't help unless we get through the issues between us.

We basically our stuck because my wife believes that I will leave her if I go to my own therapy. She is religious enough where she will feel destroyed if I left since she won't be able to get married in the church again and is too committed to in the idea of marriage to have the strength to leave herself, not to mention that there will be no long term child support since they are not our children so she says she will be left to go on welfare with no chance of getting a job.

I am completely lost on how I am going to find the right job to make this work. It could take years and I know my wife is just going to feel worse and worse with each passing day. Every day I fear coming home because I know she will eventually ask if I am being proactive to finding a solution to the situation.

I feel like I just want to run away from this all. In our most heated arguments, my wife says I am emotionally abusing them and that I have responsibilities that need to be made to make the situation better.

How can alleviate this whole situation? Any suggestions on what I can do about my job and career? What can I do to just make everyone feel a little better?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Honestly, I think this is just nuts.

You are the only one working, your career is there. And your wife cannot get along with anyone in CA -- don't you think it's a bit of magical thinking for her to think that she can get along with people in Illinois?

Your wife seems a bit immature to me, forgive me for saying that. And if she is truly "committed" to your marriage, then she needs to be committed to staying with you in the place where you earn the money to support your family.

I don't know, honey. You've got an entitled princess on your hands. But please do not quit your job and move halfway across the country without some very careful thought.

Also, the decision to see a counselor is a very personal one. If anyone in your life objects -- wife, parent, boss, anyone -- that's a huge red flag right there. Go to individual counseling. You need some support.

I am the worst in the world on this board for accusing men of emotional abuse, but you are not guilty of emotional abuse -- at least not given the info you've provided in this thread.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Here's a suggestion: stop being a tease. YOU are allowing her to hold onto this idea and have false hope. Stop it. Tell her in no uncertain terms that as long as you are married the two of you will NEVER live in that state. Tell her if it was possible you would try to make it happen, but it is not possible so it will not happen. Quash this fantasy. Keeping the fantasy alive is what allows your wife to be miserable.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

WOW

Why doesn't she work and contribute?

How about making a long term plan that involves her working and banking money that if you should agree to some type of relocation down the road, you'll have some savings to fall back on if you need to do a career change

BTW, being forced by someone to do a career change would most likely lead to some huge resentment down the road, especially if it doesn't work out in the long run!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Honestly, I think this is just nuts.
> 
> You are the only one working, your career is there. And your wife cannot get along with anyone in CA -- don't you think it's a bit of magical thinking for her to think that she can get along with people in Illinois?
> 
> ...


Agreed.

I`d like to add your counselor is a moron.

"Can`t help you until you work it out between yourselves?"

WTF does this counselor think his job description is?

If you could work it out between yourselves you wouldn`t need a counselor.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

It's a bit selfish for your wife to have such requests!

I really want to move on a farm with more acreage then what we have currently. I don't care what the house looks like, but I'd like a house in the middle of 15+ acres. It wouldn't cost us any extra money with the move and we'd be living in this area. I brought the idea up with my husband and he is against the idea. I'm completely fine with this. We compromised and will fence our property starting next spring, which will make me feel better. Since we have 4 acres, this must be done in sections once our debt is 100% paid off. My husband was just offered a nice promotion, so this is doable. He's pretty keen with the fence idea as well. Once the fence is in place any extra money will be put away for retirement. 

I'd never request moving where his job would need to be changed. We are blessed he has a good job. It would be very foolish for us to leave his current situation. Plus, he's getting great experience with the new position!


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Lamanga - Yes, I do think it's magical, but she seems to have this impression that people in general act differently in different parts of the country and she says she will feel comfort at least being around people that have similar sense of values as her.

She is committed to me, which is why she will not leave as I stated before and insists that I grow up and be a man.

Working - I did try that method. Trust me it only made things worse. Basically she called me out by stating that I am more interested in myself and not accepting the responsibility for her well being. She says that I am resigned to keep us in a miserable situations for the rest of our lives by staying here.

Toffner - When we first got married and she was going to graduate school. She wanted to move to all sorts of random places around the country and transfer schools and I told her that we were going to be limited based on my job experience. At the time she said that if I loved her, I would just try it and then maybe go back another time. I was still reluctant so she quit school and became a legal guardian for her two second cousins abandoned by their mother.

Since then she has been a SAHM to them and homeschools them. She feels her academic days are over and given up on them but has wanted to try to become a writer. The way she sees it, if we move she will get help from her family and hopefully try to get her writing off the ground. She can't do that now because she has to take care of them full time with only her dad occassionally providing assistance.

Working is obviously not an option because of the situation now.

Tacoma - I don't think the counselor was a moron. I think she just thought that until I started doing some kind independent therapy to deal with my own issues, then going to her would have just been a cycle that could never be broken. As I mentioned, she was a solutions based therapists so it probably would have been a much longer term than she promised.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Njcpa, I don't want to sound condescending, but I know a lot of writers. A LOT OF WRITERS.

Writers write. They write early in the morning, they write late at night, they write because they have to write.

People that just cannot find the time to write because they are too busy? They aren't writers.

And I'm sorry, I know there's no way for you to say this to her, but just don't buy into the whole argument that you are standing between her and a published novel, because you aren't.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

You will not accept responsiblity for "her" well being?!

OUCH and WTF As an adult, as your wife and as a good Christian her well-being is up to her. You can support her and help in many ways but the bottom line it is up to her. She can seek counseling for herself for one thing. 

All this black and white thinking has her an emotional wreck. BTDT so I know she is spinning her wheels and getting now where. I do understand. And I do empathize and sympathize but just like me she will need to help herself to. It cannot all be up to you to fix. 

Allergies can be treated.Friends can be made. Visits to/from family can be arranged. Until she can let go of that fantasy/dream she won't be able to see those things. 

Please do as WorkingOnMe said and let her know, kindly and gently, that a move is impossible. As long as she believes there is any hope, however slim, she will not be able to let it go and move on to living her life again. 

LD

Use what you can from what I wrote and let the rest go. My intent is good even when the way I convey my message isn't.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't know how to put this nicely, but your wife sounds more than a little spoiled and used to getting her own way by manipulating the situation. For her to say, "If you loved me, you'd do this for me" is wrong.

It sounds to me like she's got it pretty darned good with you as you sound like a great husband. You not only support her, but have taken in her two cousins which is a very honorable thing to do. Any counselor that says that you are being neglectful to your wife's needs and have checked out of the relationship needs to have THEIR head examined!!!

I don't know what she intends to find in another state that she doesn't have already. She's already got her two cousins living with her..has ample time to care for them and homeschool them, etc. If she would go back to work and contribute, well I guess that would just mean that her two cousins would have to go to regular school, which isn't such a bad thing.

I'm sorry to say but I think your wife is being extremely selfish and more than a little bit manipulative asking you to be proactive; telling you that if you loved her you'd do this for her, etc. Moving to another state where your career choices are limited would be a bad idea for both of you since then neither of you would be working. How the heck would THAT work??


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## Encore DT (May 29, 2012)

njpca said:


> She hates my family and her mother's side. She has terrible allergies from living here that make her feel miserable everyday. She feels she has no opportunities, no sense of community, and very few worthwhile friends to hold on to. She hates the type of culture in our state (California) and the people in general.
> 
> Even now, I only make enough to keep us paying the bills and living barely comfortable. I am the only one that works and there is never enough money to save for the long term or in emergencies on top of all the amount it takes to care for each of us and her two cousins that live with us. No vacations, no savings, no going out, nothing that can strain our current budget needs.
> 
> How can alleviate this whole situation? Any suggestions on what I can do about my job and career? What can I do to just make everyone feel a little better?


It seems as though you are taking WAY to much responsibility for this whole situation, so I have a suggestion. How about you tell your wife the following: "I'm actually glad you're taking some initiative on our living situation. Since you're not working right now, why don't you find a job in Illinois that will pay enough to support our move and stay there, while I continue to work and earn here, and after we move, I will start looking for a job there too." 

See if she still wants to move after that...


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

lamanga - I got a little more clarification as she was talking today about trying to start new ideas for writing.

Basically she doesn't feel that anybody around her will support her enough to make it worthwhile to write anyway. We are in a very contentious stage with my family and haven't spoken to them in almost a year. So she feels nobody would support her from that avenue. Her mother's side supposdedly has always had issues with her and she believes that her mother lies to them about the kind of person that she is. So she has no support there. I have lost most of my friends just going through this whole relationship so nothing there. She also states that her dad's family is too conservative and is uncomfortable passing on recommendations because of how very blunt her language in her writing could be.

So basically she doesn't feel there is any reason now to write anything.

LastDance - She does receive counseling. She goes to deal with the issues that I am causing to her and and to get validation from that.

I umderstand completely what you and Working have said and yes it makes sense. The problem is I have tried to explain that and she feels I'm being narrow minded. She believes that I have enough skills that can translate to another work and career environment. I have been trying to apply to jobs out there now and have changed my resume. We'll see if I even get call backs for any of them. I did a little last year also, and received nothing in return before.

As I stated, I have tried to let her know how difficult this would be and she just accusses me of not opening up to any possibilities and being negative about it.

Encore - I actually tried to raise that exact notion today, and of course, I got talk that I am being an idiot because the question then comes up with "who takes care of the children" and how do we manage both budgets on different ends of country? It doesn't compute to her so the responsibility comes to me. 

I think she already is resentful of how she felt she gave up her schooling career for my job and now that's where this whole idea that I have to be responsible for all of them because this is how I wanted things to be.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Here is a suggestion... 

The military has many branches.. all of whom ALWAYS has an opening... soooo if she wanted she could try for some of those and she could be making money that way to help contribute.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

njpca said:


> "who takes care of the children"


Family members
Baby sitter
Hired nanny
Daycare... 

With her making an income as well.. I'm sure you would both be able to afford the above and it would make your lives easier. YOU should NOT have to pull all the weight in this relationship. SHE could get a job as well and help ease the burden.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

It sounds like your wife is full of excuses, and you are working hard to defend her. 

Writers write.... they don't need their family to support them. That is a cop-out. Just like painters paint and musicians play. 

Put the kids in public school, she gets a job, extra money goes into savings for any future move, and she goes back to finish school. She can go to school online, and last I heard Ca. has a LOT of colleges. Everything she says is a cop-out. 

It SOUNDS like you are doing your part. She is not happy with her role, but she refuses to do anything to help herself? 

So you have to figure out how to deal with her and this issue of moving. There are some ideas in these replies to your post. If she expects you to "be the man"...then do that. BE the man. Tell her you cannot afford to move at this time and unless she HELPS financially, then it won't ever even have a chance of happening. Period. 

If she wants to argue about it, or belittle your efforts, you tell her that that is unacceptable behavior and walk away.


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## Shiksa (Mar 2, 2012)

WOW is all I can say. I live in CA. I have allergies. I am nice. I get allergy shot so I don't have allergies any more. Obviously I don't write, but have friends who are published novelist. Their families don't read their work until its done. That's what editors/book doctors are for. I smell blameshifting for her unhappiness.

you are lucky you have a job. My H doesn't right now and working extremely hard to find one. Not easy. She should be happy you have an income. She made choices she's apparently not happy she made. That is not your fault, she made them of her own free will. Live with it or leave.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Other then writing can she do any other kind of work at home? 

Or continue her education part time?


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## jenniferswe (Apr 23, 2012)

CA is a large state with a large population. There are a lot of opportunities there. Sounds like she needs to get out more and get involved with a good group of people. Getting involved with the neighborhood school would be good. Doing volunteer work would help her meet people.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Honestly, if someone can't find California a place to live, they should simply try Mars and then Pluto.

What a crock of sh**. Tell your wife to grow up.


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## GhostRydr (Jun 2, 2012)

I live in Illinois and its one of the highest taxed states not to mention the unemployment is bad. The news likes to say 8.3%...factor in those who have lost their unemployment benefits and havent found work and that number is more like 9.5%

Tho I wouldnt move to california, I HATE living in Illinois and am seeking a change

For her to lay that on you while she isnt working is baloney..

If her allergies from the state are that bad try a compromise and see if there is something you can do regarding your job that is nearer to california....for imo....whether its the woman or man, the breadwinner makes final living locale decsions.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Since she uses her writing as a platform for her request to move, I think that there are other things about writing that you should know. Until a person has developed their style to a proficiency that can get them published, family members and friends are usually the worst people for her to rely on. They will be either (a) too dismissive of critical flaws in her prose and the higher elements of her story, or (b) super critical of her writing, reviewing her work with more negativity than they would use with any other writing. They won't know where to draw the line when offering ideas.

I write as a hobby, but wrote professionally years ago. I learned the lessons the hard way. She should establish her capabilities in executing a good storyline before expecting family and friends to help. There are a number of online and local opportunities for most genre of writing.

It sounds too much like she is using excuses, instead of proving herself capable of living a happy life wherever she is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

njpca said:


> She is committed to me, which is why she will not leave as I stated before and *insists that I grow up and be a man*.


 Excuse me?

Have you ever read No More Mr Nice Guy? I suggest you go read that TODAY and come back and talk to us after your eyes are opened.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

njpca said:


> She does receive counseling. She goes* to deal with the issues that I am causing to her* and and to get validation from that.


Again, read NMMNG. Your whole view of this is skewed and you need to rectify it. YOU rectifying YOUR side will get her back on track. You have turned into a doormat and women DESPISE doormats and then they lay ALL BLAME on the man. Read the book.


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Turnera, I found the book and will start digging into it all. The first chapters I can see some of my issues, though I will say I am having a difficult time connecting them to my childhood. I'll be starting a journey thread in the Men's section to hopefully get feedback and progress as well as speak to others on the board about similar issues.

I hope I can get into some men's group also locally, but not sure if I will be able to afford it or an individual therapist for the time being.

Hopefully this can start to shed some light on all of these issues.

Thanks for the advice. I hope to share more later


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're looking for a men's group, go to Help for Men, Mentor for Men, Men's Groups, Relationship Advice, Life Coach. Best I know of. Same place as started by the author of the NUTS book.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

You work hard to support you, your stay at home wife, and two children that belong to one of her relatives, yet your spoiled self centered wife gives you nothing but grief for not committing career suicide so that she can be near her family and not yours. I suspect that your family sees her for what she is so she does not like them; am I right?

Stop letting your wife be the sole judge as to what is wrong or right; she is not qualified. Stop letting her blame sift on to you all of her failings and start holding her accountable for her actions. Finally, start letting her know that your happiness also matters and that you are tired of her ignoring this fact. Take all of the things that she says you do not do for her and flip it back at her and see how she likes it.

I have been happily married for over 25 years to my first wife so I do not say this lightly, but you should seriously asking yourself if she is the best person for you for the rest of your life? She does not want you to seek individual therapy because she is afraid they will ask this question and she does not like the obvious answer. You have a right to be married to someone that views you has a partner and not as a meal ticket. Someone that want to raise your children and is willing to pull her own weight to make that possible.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

The global economy is in the toilet. If you have a steady job that pays the bills and keeps food on the table it's INSANE to leave it for what she thinks is greener pastures.

Similar "values" to hers? WTF does that even mean?

You keep alluding to her being damaged somehow but what you're doing to her. I dont know what that means exactly. Providing for her? It's more likely she feels incredible resentment for having to quit school and is just going a little nuts trying to do something with her life.

And again...another story of an idiot counsellor.

I know you defended her...but she is an idiot. You don't need to fix anything about yourself to be able to tell your wife this is a crazy move.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How much money do you 'give' her each week?


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

lamaga said:


> Njcpa, I don't want to sound condescending, but I know a lot of writers. A LOT OF WRITERS.
> 
> Writers write. They write early in the morning, they write late at night, they write because they have to write.
> 
> ...


This is true. Also unsaid is that trying to make a liveable income from writing is like playing The Hunger Games in essay form. Many will enter, few will win.

If she can't write in CA, she can't write anywhere.


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## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

Encore DT said:


> It seems as though you are taking WAY to much responsibility for this whole situation, so I have a suggestion. How about you tell your wife the following: "I'm actually glad you're taking some initiative on our living situation. Since you're not working right now, why don't you find a job in Illinois that will pay enough to support our move and stay there, while I continue to work and earn here, and after we move, I will start looking for a job there too."
> 
> See if she still wants to move after that...


i was going to say pretty much the same thing. or, tell her that you will at least look into it, see what job you COULD get, factor in moving expenses and then outline what HER income would have to be to keep the family even.

sometimes numbers speak louder than words.


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Turnera - Thank you very much for the link. I will look into the link and hopefully I can use it as a guide or tool. Without going into too many details, I give her my paycheck and the money is distributed into our budget with the following items:

Rent (2bd apartment)
Electric
Cable/Internet/Phone
Laundry
House Supplies
Cleaning Services
Netflix
Groceries/Eating Out
Cell Phones (3 phones)
Car Insurance (both cars)
Gasoline (both cars)

After all those are deducted, we both get $200 a month for our own personal spending

She also lets me know the things that my salary can't cover including:

Health Insurance (Hers and Children)
Children's Clothing
Children's Toiletries
Children's Homeschooling Supplies
Children's Extra Curricular Activities
Medical Co-Pays (Hers and Children)
Medicine (Hers and Children)
Children's Activities with Us
Her Therapy
Her Tuition and Books (She continues to take CC classes so she doesn't have to pay all her student loans)
Her Car Maintenance
Her current student loan payments

All of those expenses are covered by her Dad or any tax refunds we get back the next year.

TRY - I don't know what my family thinks. I know that they think I work really hard. My family doesn't want to have contact with them and we have had problems dealing with them, so I haven't spoken to anyone in almost a year.

Sinnister - When I say similar values, it means she hates the mindset of how people in California act. She thinks that most of the people in Illinois do not have the same way of thinking.

Yes I think the damage has to do with her being so distraught over quitting school. She has not been able to gain an identity since she left and it's made things hard for her, which is why she has been trying to focus on writing.

Atholk - I don't think she cares whether she makes money from writing, she just doesn't feel she has the focus to write with everything she deals with in CA. She believes moving will help give her a new renewed focus.

Married - I have been looking into jobs and we have factored in the moving expenses. The problem is I need to find the job first before anything can be factored in, since there is no extra savings for us to fall back on. The hard part is finding what industry I can fit into with current background.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're not listening. You need to tell her that if she wants to move so badly, SHE needs to figure out how to pay for it. Starting with her getting a job. Put it back on HER shoulders where it belongs. You need to man up and stop kissing up to her. Every single time you kiss up, she likes you a little bit less.


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, I thought I should provide a brief update as the new year begins:

I attempted to go to do my own therapy, which I found an incredibly cheap option at a university. I was able to go for a couple of months off and on, and I felt like that I was making progress in the sessions.

Unfortunately, my wife did not feel the same with my progress and threatened to divorce me unless I stopped going. I told her that this was it and that I would not participate in any more counseling, individual or couples.

I tried reading and starting the work in No More Mr. Nice Guy, as many had recommended for me. However, my wife discovered what I was doing and immediately told me to stop using this approach.

Since then she has continued to try to plan to make a change to our lives and move out of state. She even came up with an elaborate Power Point presentation to outline the options. Basically she thinks this would play out like this:

She and her cousins will move out in the spring and find a place to live. We would sell whatever we think we don't need to have some money to move them out. We will break our lease and I will live in a rented room closer to where I work. I continue to work at my current job and look for jobs out in Illinois. The idea is that if I have an address out there, I won't be overlooked as much by companies because I live so distant from my current job. I will go out to visit as much as I can and of course travel if I have to have an interview. By summertime, I would quit my job and work freelance so that I possibly could have more flexibility in job searching.

As you can imagine, I have so much concern over this grand plan, financially, emotionally, and rationally. I have tried to express these things numerous times to her. All that I get back in return is that I am taking away her happiness, that I am not being understanding to her emotional needs and being closer to her family. Because of this, she has been very hesitant to trust me in acting out this plan.

Now it's taken another turn as she has brought up the discussion again of having a child together. I'm feeling forced to make all these huge commitments when there are so many issues in our current situation. As it is I feel so exacerbated in just raising her cousins and this whole moving plan and financial disarray we have been in.

We have had multiple arguments and I think it's come down to these next couple weeks. I feel that there is no other options other than go along with everything, because she is so unhappy and miserable in our current situation. There doesn't seem to be any meeting halfway as she continues to say that I took everything away from her life's plan.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

njpca said:


> There doesn't seem to be any meeting halfway as she continues to say that I took everything away from her life's plan.


How did you do that? Exactly?


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

My God man, let her go.

She will NEVER be happy with you. N-E-V-E-R. Not now, not when you move, not ever.

She will not be happy until you are more miserable than her and even then, she will probably still be unhappy with you.


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Shortly after we married, she quit grad school and wanted to apply to Phd programs around the country. I was hesitant to do this and give up my career and we fought about it. She gave up and and decided to abandon it. Then she took custody of her two cousins and then just embraced the SAHM mom role thing so having our own child is supposed to fill this notion of raising a kid from the beginning.


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

Having a baby will not make her happy. You will just be in it even deeper because you won't help enough. No matter what you do, you won't do it right or often enough.

You want to know how I know this? Because I was this person once. It took my H leaving us & 12 months of agony & soul searching for me to turn myself around. While you keep running after her bowing to her every wish like some klnd of servant, she will never change. In the end my H & I reconciled, but it has been very different. I learnt not to make unreasonable demands, he learnt to say no & not give in.

By all means continue down the path you are going, but I can predict that in a couple of years, you will be having an affair, either physical or emotional because you will be looking for validation & encouragement that you are a valuable member of society, not the waste of space your wife makes you feel.


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

No, I have brought up numerous times, different states. I spent many times searching for those kind of jobs a couple years ago. She only sees going back to Illinois as the only option because she has her friends and family there. Anywhere else would still have her feeling isolated from any help in raising children and social contact.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What do you think is your realistic chance of finding a job that pays at least what you make right now?

Does she realize that the job market is bad everywhere?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

njpca said:


> Well, I thought I should provide a brief update as the new year begins:
> 
> I attempted to go to do my own therapy, which I found an incredibly cheap option at a university. I was able to go for a couple of months off and on, and I felt like that I was making progress in the sessions.
> 
> ...


You've got to be kidding. What are you, her dog?

What will it take for you to believe you are an actual human being with rights? What made you so utterly beta?


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## MysteryMan1 (Nov 4, 2012)

You're caught up in a whirlwind right now and not sure what to do. You're wife's unhappy and she needs to get to the real reason why, moving across the country or having a kid won't make her happy.

She needs individual counseling.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I think the wife is not very stable mentally or emotionally. She made the OP give up his original career so that she could pursue some phD program that she never followed through on. Now she wants you to pull up stakes and do it all over again. It sounds like she'll never be happy. It also sounds like she is naturally abrasive and pushes people away from her. You said you lost most of your friends because of this relationship. Did you stop communicating with your family because of your wife as well? It sounds like she's isolating you from everything you hold important. 

I will say one thing though - your current living situation is not good for the long term anyways. If you have doubts that your current career won't pay off in the end well enough for you and your wife to go out on dates, save money and save for retirement then you probably need a career change anyways. That or your wife must go back to work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.? It might help you.


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

As far as expectations on finding a job with equal pay, I tend to be realistic and think that will be more difficult if I am going to be switching careers. You can argue that maybe I'm not being positive about the whole thing. I can take somewhat of a paycut because the cost of living will be different than in our current state. 

I just tend to be more negative because of the lack of response I get from all the applying I am already doing. Probably hundreds of submissions in so many varied different industries. The best I could get so far was a phone call and they really only were fishing to ask why I was even applying to their posting.

I already think I know the reason why my wife is unhappy. She doesn't want to live here anymore and because I have not been the supportive husband in all of our decisions, she feels trapped in the situation. She tends to say that I have never fully jumped into the relationship because of all the uncertainty I have had in these decisions.

Her counseling that she is doing is really only reiterating those feelings and validating them. I am the reason she is going to a therapist and I only seem to be the only person that can fix those problems.

And just to clarify I met her when she was finishing her bachelors. It's when she went to her original graduate school program that we decided to move in together. I never had to change my career. There was a lot of miscommunication, mainly on my part on what we both wanted and it blew up shortly after we had married.

I did stop communicating with my family mainly to try to quell any problems we were having. She just was always distraught in the actions my family would take, so I couldn't deal with how emtional she would become over it, so I just told her we'll stop talking to them. In hindsight, I realize that was not the best way to cut off like that because some of my family blamed her for that.

I think the whole thing with my career is that we got married just around the time that the recession was hitting my industry. The company I work for had to stop all raises and put on hold retirement contributions to get through it all. I also paid to get some certifications that would help build up my skill set but they haven't helped out until more recently. I think she just saw how rocky it was all going and started looking at how I was sacrificing to try to pull through it all.

Now things are great. We've expanded our company, I got my first raise in two years and we are talking about bringing the retirement back again. Things are going so well that I've been asked to consider signing a longer term contract. But I am so fearful to even talk to my wife about it. All she sees are the bad times that we have gone through with my job and she doesn't want me sacrificing the family time she wants to get.

Yes, I may be very true to my job and put in a lot of time into it, but that's how I can stay passionate about it and it's now one of the only things I have left for myself. The real value is that I still feel like I'm learning something new every so often. But as long my wife sees how I think things are good, she'll probably find some negative aspect to it because it's not what she wanted in her life.

I don't see how reading this book is going to be any more beneficial than when I tried NMMNG. If she finds out again, she's just going to lose more respect in me.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Look, honestly reading a book isn't going to help you. 

I have been where your wife is and I have been where you are. 
All I can tell you is that if she leaves without you to start to get settled, your relationship will suffer more than it already has. You are in a marriage, that means you are a team. That team has to stick together, no matter what. 

She is your wife, you have to take her feelings and wants into consideration. If she isn't happy, you have to take that seriously. Just like she has to take your position as the sole provider seriously. You have to be very careful the steps you take in making this move and finding work. The financial responsibility is solely on you. And honestly, you are not going to secure work until you are out there. Companies now are so inundated with applicants, they are not wasting their time with someone out of state that doesn't exactly know when they are going to be available for work. Too risky. 

Work and save. That is all I can tell you. Then, when you have the means to go out there TOGETHER, do it. If she doesn't understand the above and is still all about her her her...than she doesn't see the two of you as team either and your marriage isn't going work. 

Oh and p.s. Tell your wife, she can go home, but home is never the same.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Dude, what you really need is some good therapy to learn to like yourself, to fix your whacked out self esteem. If you do that, everything else will fall into place. And stop chasing a woman who treats you like crap!


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Soooooooooo..... your wife goes to counseling but FORBIDS you to? That in itself is nuts. 

She also forbids you to read self-help books? You don't see a problem with her FORBIDDING you to do simple self-improvement activities? 

I think the *only* thing a spouse can/should FORBID is having sex outside the marriage. 

Bottom line, if you just gripe about everything without WORKING toward a solution..... then your words have no weight. You are worrying too much about her hot air. If she had any SENSE, she would HELP you make things happen. She would put the kids in public school and WORK (she has a degree, right? Graduate degree is not required to find a job) and HELP make things happen.

Also.... family isn't necessary to raise your kids, or even your cousins, or whoever it is that ya'll are raising. People all over the world rear children without someone "helping". I don't get this part at all. 

Aaaaaaaaaaaand..... did I see in your list of expenses "cleaning services"???? Isn't that something SHE could do to HELP???? I agree that she has no concept of being a team. BTDT...and that SUCKS. 

So what "things" did you do TO her that she is going to counseling for?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Man, have you got any idea what the business environment is like in Illinois? Very much on a par with California, but without the nice climate.

Let me change the subject slightly (it's relevant); what's your sex life like?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Let me change the subject slightly (it's relevant); what's your sex life like?


haha, you know damn well what his sex life is like. It's 100% predictable.


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

Machavielli - I am not understanding, Are you trying to say that there are similar businesses in Illinois as there in California and that I should be able to find something? I work in TV/Film so there is not similar opportunities out that as there are here.

If you really want to know, it's goes through it's ups and downs. To be honest, she is always complaining that I don't initiate enough first or am very passionate with her. Part of that has to do with me probably being depressed on this whole situation. Another part is I honestly don't always find it satisfying on my end.

Also, her cousins have horrible separation anxiety so I never know when they are going to pop in on us because they can't sleep and they need her to be near them.

More recently, my wife barely sleeps in the bed anymore. Part of it has to do with these children and part of it is her saying the bed is not comfortable for her back, so she usually sleeps on the couch.

Not surprisingly, she is now asking that we get a bed mattress because of this. Another thing to add to my wonderful credit debt.

Sunny T- Please check any of my other threads if you want a more in depth look at what we have been through.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How often do you request something of HER?

Why can't you just say no, you will NOT be buying a mattress until your debt is gone, and she's welcome to work to pay it down?


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## BrookeT (Nov 3, 2012)

Ok, I am going to keep this short, and blunt. 

Man up. Stop letting your wife dictate anything to you. Do not quit your job, do not move. Tell her, to her face, you are tired of hearing this crap, and not to mention it again, it's not going to happen. Period. If she doesn't like that, tell her shes free to move to Illinois on her own dime, and you'll be filing for divorce. 

Please DO NOT have a child with her, she's a spoiled, immature, little brat.


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

I honestly can't think of anything I request of her except that I ask her to understand the demands of my job can be sometimes. I gave up asking for things a long time ago. I can't even request a special thing to get at the grocery store because she gives me such a hard time over destroying the grocery budget.

I can't say no because she always tells me that a married man is supposed to take care of his wife and has the responsibilities in making her life better. Sometimes I feel that she wants to live out these stereotypical gender roles of man and woman from the 1950's, even though she despises the whole housewife aspect.

I appreciate very much that she does cook and cleaning, but I never ask her to do it, and I have no problem helping out, but I am always told that I will do it the wrong way and she does it herself. 




turnera said:


> How often do you request something of HER?
> 
> Why can't you just say no, you will NOT be buying a mattress until your debt is gone, and she's welcome to work to pay it down?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Briefly, you know you can take a hit on your salary because the cost of living is lower outside CA. But, salaries in general adjust for that circumstance. You will take an additional hit in pay for being a less experienced/qualified employee in a different field.

Now then, what I keyed in on is the way your wife presented her idea to you. She did not ask you to risk your financial stability for her happiness (which is what this is), nor has she asked you how she could make this less taxing for her.

What she did is say to do this for your own happiness and the relationship. IOW, she threatened you in a way. What she basically said is "do it or pay the price". That's a huge red flag.

To fortify her position, she's making crap up. California people suck? She can't get a handful of good friends in a state with 38+ million people? Wish TAM had a smilie with a B.S. flag.

The other huge red flag (perhaps even bigger than the veiled threat) is the way she isolates you. She does not want you to go to individual counseling. You aren't allowed to read self-help books. She's distanced you apart from your family. Trust me - she does not want you to have a support system or feel empowered to say "no".

I would tell her to get bent. Period.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

njpca said:


> I can't say no because she always tells me that a married man is supposed to take care of his wife and has the responsibilities in making her life better.


:rofl:

Where'd you hear that? On the Internet? :lol:

Oh wait, I know - SHE TOLD YOU THAT!

Good lord, njpca. I've never seen a worse case of beta male. I truly haven't. Have you EVER in your life stood up for yourself, or did your mother raise you to be this way? Is there any hope for you to fix your life?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

njpca said:


> Machavielli - I am not understanding, Are you trying to say that there are similar businesses in Illinois as there in California and that I should be able to find something? I work in TV/Film so there is not similar opportunities out that as there are here.


I'll spell it out for you, outside of Hollywood related work, California is losing business, and the associated jobs, to states from Idaho to Texas, due to overtaxation. Illinois has no Hollywood (no year-round sunshine for movie making) but they are also losing businesses to overtaxation. In short, not only are jobs tight, they're moving outside the state. Business owners are voting with their feet. So, if you're looking for work in a new field and in a new state, Illinois is probably not the state you're looking for.



njpca said:


> If you really want to know, it's goes through it's ups and downs. To be honest, she is always complaining that I don't initiate enough first or am very passionate with her. Part of that has to do with me probably being depressed on this whole situation. Another part is I honestly don't always find it satisfying on my end.


Has anybody suggested the concepts in MMSL to you? I think if you start raising your sex rank, she'll initiate and not complain about it, plus she'll make sure you get yours. See, contrary to popular opinion, the Bible and "evolution" both agree that the root purpose of marriage is sex and offspring. You two have neither.



njpca said:


> Also, her cousins have horrible separation anxiety so I never know when they are going to pop in on us because they can't sleep and they need her to be near them.


I think your wife may have had ulterior motives for having them live with you. If she isn't sexually attracted to you, they make for a nice sexual deflector screen. Put a lock on your bedroom door.



njpca said:


> More recently, my wife barely sleeps in the bed anymore. Part of it has to do with these children and part of it is her saying the bed is not comfortable for her back, so she usually sleeps on the couch.


Like the couch is more comfortable. Again, this is nothing more than sexual deflection. If she was hot for you, she'd sleep on the floor at your feet.

Has anyone recommended MMSL to you, yet?


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## njpca (Jan 22, 2010)

No, you are the first to mention it, I just looked on the forums and found the title. Perhaps I can at least check it out to see if it could be helpful at all.

I feel like mind games are just being played on me now. My wife is now freaking out over this payroll tax increase that took some money away from us and now she pleading with me to figure something out. I kept telling her that we'll work together to come up with some solutions and all she kept saying was for me to tell her she'll never have to work in some low end job to make up the difference. I just told her I don't know right now but we'll talk and now she's losing trust because she thinks that's what I'm asking her to do.

God, I'm going nuts at this point. I can't find any way to comfort her anymore.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I had so hoped you were out of this relationship. I don't mean to be negative , and I am fully aware this is a pro-marriage forum. Still, your marriage is not healthy for *any of you--not you, your wife, or the children your wife took in.*. And now you are even under orders to bring a baby into this mayhem. Why?

If you are determined to stay in this abusive relationship, please stand up for yourself and set boundaries. And, please don't bring an innocent baby into this mess until you can stand up to your wife, have boundaries, and have a relationship with your family. Yeah, your family will want to be a part of your life when there are grandchildren. It's so sad.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

njpca said:


> God, I'm going nuts at this point. I can't find any way to comfort her anymore.


 That's because she's mentally ill (likely BPD) and you will NEVER comfort her - you can't. She will keep moving the target so that you can PROVE YOUR LOVE - over and over and over and over and over. That's what people like her do.

Think back to before you met her. Were you this ridiculous back then? 

Try to be that man again, ok?


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