# I think W is losing respect for me, not sure why



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm looking for some female perspectives. 

There have been several threads on TAM lately about respect and how important it is in a successful relationship.

Over the past several weeks, my wife and I have not been getting along very well. From my perspective, my wife has been very impatient with me, more nagging, more critical of things I do (or not do). Her tone has become very similar to the tone she uses with our teenage son. In fact, he came up to me the other day after my wife was getting on my case, and said "Now you know exactly how I feel".

It really came to a head yesterday. My cell phone had slipped off the seat and onto the floor of the car. I was looking around for it before I picked it up off the floor. In a very serious tone, she said "You really should have bought the phone insurance they offered at the phone store". She went on about how I drop my phone all the time, how I don't understand and use the features of my phone anyway, and how relieved she was that I wasn't going to get a second cell phone with my new job because I was incapable of managing one phone much less two phones.

It came off as very disrespectful, much like a parent would treat a young child. When I began to defend myself, she cut me off and told me to shut up or she was going to stop the car and get out and walk. She hasn't used that threat since we were dating (over 25 years ago).

Later, when I tried to tell her that I thought she was being unreasonable and disrespectful, she again cut me off and said "You are being too sensitive and you are blowing this out of proportion, and I'm not going to discuss this with you".

As I thought about it, more of our recent communications have been like this. I have concluded that she has lost respect for me, and I have been trying to figure out why.

The only thing I can come up with it that I am about to change jobs. I have been very unhappy with work over the past 6-8 months. So I took some initiative, and found another job (I am a senior VP level person in the IT field). I accepted the job after we discussed it, because the new job would mean less (about 10-15% less) money for the first 6-12 months. She was concerned about the pay cut because she handles the finances, but she told me that it was more important for me to be happy, reclaim some work-life balance, etc.

This took place about 6 weeks ago, and seems to coincide with her recent treatment. When I bring it up, she refuses to discuss it, and tells me I am making too big a deal out of how she has been treating me.

So ladies, would a job change with less pay make you lose respect for your man? I was thinking that a guy who is unhappy with his career but who pisses and moans about it without taking action would lose some respect, but not a guy who takes the bull by the horns and does something about it.

Also, I have thought about myself, and I can't come up with any other reasons why she would lose respect for me:

- I'm healthy, in great shape (51 yo, 6'3" and 205#, go to the gym 2-3x per week), and very particular about my hygiene and grooming
- I'm generally a positive, proactive person
- I make a good living, even with the pay cut
- I treat her and our teenage son well
- I help around the house, cook, clean up, mow, etc.
- I don't have any vices or bad habits other than a sweet tooth
- Our sex life has been great for the past few years (before that it wasn't so great, but has been much better since MC/ST)

So I'm really at a loss over the disrespectful behavior she has treated me with recently, and I'm anxiously searching for input or possible answers.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Assuming your wife is your age could she be going through menopause?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

No, she had a radical hysterectomy in her late-30's (took out her ovaries), and has been on HRT ever since. She may not be taking her HRT, but I doubt it as she hates the hot flashes she gets when she forgets to take it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> I'm looking for some female perspectives.
> 
> There have been several threads on TAM lately about respect and how important it is in a successful relationship.
> 
> ...


It could be you are over analyzing. People are not steady state, there are ebbs and flows, ups and downs. Perhaps when she gets more like this put more into yourself.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I understand that people go through different moods, and that no one is steady state. But we have been together for a long time, and this is different. She has never been like this that I can remember.

I could be over-analyzing, but I don't think I am.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> So ladies, would a job change with less pay make you lose respect for your man? I was thinking that a guy who is unhappy with his career but who pisses and moans about it without taking action would lose some respect, but not a guy who takes the bull by the horns and does something about it.
> 
> Also, I have thought about myself, and I can't come up with any other reasons why she would lose respect for me:
> 
> ...


I doubt I'd be thrilled with a pay cut but if it didn't put us in a stressful position and DH was happy,I'd be happy.

I can't see how it would make her start being this way though. No,I don't feel you're over thinking this. I'd be pretty peeved if my husband talked to me the way she's talking to you.

Is she unhappy with herself for some reason? Bored maybe? Jealous that you're so happy now?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> I understand that people go through different moods, and that no one is steady state. But we have been together for a long time, and this is different. She has never been like this that I can remember.
> 
> I could be over-analyzing, but I don't think I am.


I know.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I doubt I'd be thrilled with a pay cut but if it didn't put us in a stressful position and DH was happy,I'd be happy.
> 
> I can't see how it would make her start being this way though. No,I don't feel you're over thinking this. I'd be pretty peeved if my husband talked to me the way she's talking to you.
> 
> Is she unhappy with herself for some reason? Bored maybe? Jealous that you're so happy now?


"unhappy with herself for some reason?" - great advice, many men would not realize they might be getting treated badly because the woman is unhappy with herself...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Is there any possibility at all that she is being unfaithful? My ex-husband would occasionally go into overdrive with the criticism and disrespect. In retrospect, the times when it was worst were when he was cheating.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Now that you mention it, she has had some changes at her job. A coworker recently accepted a new job/promotion and is moving to Florida. Perhaps she is anxious about her position, or what that means for her. But people coming and leaving at work is a pretty normal occurrence for both of us.

Other than that, I can't come up with any reasons I know of where she would be unhappy with herself to the extent that it would make her behave this way.

Thanks for the input so far.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I would only be unhappy with the drop in pay if it put us in financial stress. 

She is disrespecting you because you are letting her. Honestly, she sounds like a bully, was she always like this?? She will treat you as badly as you allow her to, time to shut her down.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

No, the temporary pay cut wouldn't bother me. Same thing happened to us 10 years ago when my husband changed jobs and it was a lot more than 10-15% but I knew eventually that he was going to be making more than his previous job. He was going to be a lot happier too.

I don't think you are over thinking at all. Her using the words, "shut up", is not normal way that people talk to each other.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Rowan said:


> Is there any possibility at all that she is being unfaithful? My ex-husband would occasionally go into overdrive with the criticism and disrespect. In retrospect, the times when it was worst were when he was cheating.


I suppose anything is possible, but I really doubt she is involved with someone else. Her schedule doesn't really allow for it, and I don't think there have been any other signs of that. I reckon I can poke around a bit, but if I do that and get caught snooping, that would cause a whole new set of problems.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

If you really think that the job change is what triggered it, then confront her about it. Did you discuss with her that you were actively looking to leave the old job? Did she know you were applying to new jobs? Was she involved in the intake process...know you were interviewing, know you were offered the position? Or did you come to her after the offer came in and then try to negotiate why you were going to accept it?

I am projecting a bit here - but I had a similar event in my marraige a year ago. My H worked for the same company for 10 years and we actually bought our house 5 miles from his job bc he planned to be there for a long time. The move increased my commute significantly...I now drive 1.5hrs one way. I moved bc the schools in our new area are excellent and it was going to be a big plus for my H with his job, and he agreed that he'd be the primary caretaker for the kids during work hrs (coordinating pick ups and drop offs, school schedules, etc) since I would always be 1.5 hrs away. 

About six months after the move he applied for new jobs, interviewed and was offered a position - without telling me. Sure I knew he was under appreciated in his old job and he complained about (mine isnt a walk in the park either), but he never told me he was looking or putting out resumes or going to interviews! 

He came home the day he got the offer, with his mind already made him but he didnt say that (it was obvious), and plead his case. At that point I was angry bc it took me completely off guard and he had obviously been scheming about this and making decisions without me. When I told him that is how I felt, he denied that he had been sneaky and said "we are having this convo now right? If I didnt want to involve you I would have accepted it before I came home today".

I agreed for him to take the new job bc I of course want him to be happy. My H is very passionate about his profession and went to school for 8 years to get a professional degree to do it. On the flip side I coasted thru undergrad and have never really felt a passion for my work, its always been just a job for me. So I think I am willing to put up with a lot more crap at work bc I cant really "see" a place where'd I'd be happier...its all the same to me. So I went along with his change bc it's always been important to me to support his passion in his career. 

However - I was angry and yes, lost respect, that the whole thing was very underhanded. And guess what...now he works 1hr away from our house so we both have awful commutes. Why did we buy this house if he was going to move jobs so soon? And we are still at odds over how we are going to handle the kids upcoming school schedules, now that it is a huge hassle for both of us since we are both so far away. Haven't come up with a solution for that yet. 

It took me a very long time to come to terms with the change because in my eyes he behaved selfishly. 

However - regardless of any resentment she may be harboring, she doesn't have a right to treat you that way. You need to stand up to her and tell her to cut it out. I would start with "It seems like you are angry with me over something. If you would like to talk about what is bothering you, I am here to listen. I will not tolerate being treated disrespectfully and if you do not stop (yelling, talking down to me, being rude, etc) I will leave until you can treat me right."


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Rowan said:


> Is there any possibility at all that she is being unfaithful? My ex-husband would occasionally go into overdrive with the criticism and disrespect. In retrospect, the times when it was worst were when he was cheating.


A woman I was with treated me harshly and overly critical of me when she was cheating. I remember thinking "I did nothing wrong" and I was doing my part around the house.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> I would only be unhappy with the drop in pay if it put us in financial stress.
> 
> She is disrespecting you because you are letting her. Honestly, she sounds like a bully, was she always like this?? She will treat you as badly as you allow her to, time to shut her down.


I think I mentioned in another post that this is new for her. She never has been a "bully". But she has certainly been less respectful in both her speech and actions lately.

I agree that a part of the problem is that I have done - or not done - something that has contributed to her lack of respect (because respect must be earned and maintained). I just can't figure out what it is.

We will certainly feel the pay cut, but it won't put us under any undue stress. The new job has better opportunity for future raises and advancement anyway.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> I think I mentioned in another post that this is new for her. She never has been a "bully". But she has certainly been less respectful in both her speech and actions lately.
> 
> I agree that a part of the problem is that I have done - or not done - something that has contributed to her lack of respect (because respect must be earned and maintained). I just can't figure out what it is.
> 
> We will certainly feel the pay cut, but it won't put us under any undue stress. The new job has better opportunity for future raises and advancement anyway.


Could she have the personal need to feel "strong" at this moment? She might not know that she's impacting you and not intentionally trying to do it.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

kag123 said:


> If you really think that the job change is what triggered it, then confront her about it. Did you discuss with her that you were actively looking to leave the old job? Did she know you were applying to new jobs? Was she involved in the intake process...know you were interviewing, know you were offered the position? Or did you come to her after the offer came in and then try to negotiate why you were going to accept it?
> 
> I am projecting a bit here - but I had a similar event in my marraige a year ago. My H worked for the same company for 10 years and we actually bought our house 5 miles from his job bc he planned to be there for a long time. The move increased my commute significantly...I now drive 1.5hrs one way. I moved bc the schools in our new area are excellent and it was going to be a big plus for my H with his job, and he agreed that he'd be the primary caretaker for the kids during work hrs (coordinating pick ups and drop offs, school schedules, etc) since I would always be 1.5 hrs away.
> 
> ...


I was very open about the job change, and she encouraged me to start looking for a new work gig. In fact, we had to cut our Spring Break vacation a day short so I could go to the interview. She had input into the decision, and if she was against it, she didn't say anything at that time.

I'm just speculating about the pay cut, since she did express some concern over it before I accepted the job. Other than that, and a very, very slim chance that she is cheating (as suggested by other posters), I can't figure it out.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Honestly,OP,whatever the reason she needs to become aware that she's standing at the top of a slippery slope. Instead of minimizing she needs to recognize what she's doing. There is no reason under the sun to talk to the person you love in this way. It's a HUGE problem in marriages now. People forget to be kind to each other. She's forgetting to be kind to you and she's perpetually exasperated with you. 

I bet if you flipped the script and did this to her she'd call you out in a hot second. 

I still think she's either bored,jealous or unhappy with herself. Possibly all the above. But until she recognizes what she's doing and stops minimizing it things won't improve.


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## QueenofEverything (Jun 19, 2014)

As I was reading this I was thinking _"I wonder if there is a money issue"_ then I got to the part about changing jobs. 

Not to excuse her behavior, I am just trying to get some insight.
Will you guys be okay financially? Not just income but are you
in a lot of debt? Does she feel like there is a financial burden?

On another note...Has she been dressing differently? 
Has she suddenly wanted to get in shape? Does she have any male "friends"?


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## Brandy905 (Apr 3, 2014)

Has anything been going on with your son? Teenagers can be rough, I know from experience. If there have been some issues with him and she doesn't feel you support her and you are supporting him, she could feel it's her against the two of you. In essence she is the only parent in the family. I have caught myself doing this to my husband and let him know I need his support.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Have you tried asking her when everyone is calm what's been bothering her? Don't make any references to you or your son yet, just tell her she seems unhappy and on edge and you'd like to help if you can. Couldn't hurt to try.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I would stick a voice activated recorder in her car so you can honestly find out what is bothering her then you can go from there.
Just a thought.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Honestly,OP,whatever the reason she needs to become aware that she's standing at the top of a slippery slope. Instead of minimizing she needs to recognize what she's doing. There is no reason under the sun to talk to the person you love in this way. It's a HUGE problem in marriages now. People forget to be kind to each other. She's forgetting to be kind to you and she's perpetually exasperated with you.
> 
> I bet if you flipped the script and did this to her she'd call you out in a hot second.
> 
> I still think she's either bored,jealous or unhappy with herself. Possibly all the above. But until she recognizes what she's doing and stops minimizing it things won't improve.


Since she has been so dismissive of my comments when I have tried to discuss it, I sent her a text today. I told her how I felt - that I don't appreciate being treated like a child and spoken to in a disrespectful way.

She texted me back saying she was sorry, but that I have been blowing this out of proportion. She said she would be willing to talk about it when she gets home. Hopefully, we can have a rational, adult conversation instead of the "look at the hand" refusing-to-engage stuff she has been giving me lately.

It's really hard to tell when someone is bored, jealous or unhappy with themselves, even when it's someone you have lived with for over 30 years. If those are the reasons for her behavior, she has to make peace with herself before things can improve.


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> I would only be unhappy with the drop in pay if it put us in financial stress.
> 
> She is disrespecting you because you are letting her. Honestly, she sounds like a bully, was she always like this?? She will treat you as badly as you allow her to, time to shut her down.


I agree - you need to put your foot down when she disrespects you and then minimizes it. 

For instance, you wrote: 

_When I began to defend myself, she cut me off and told me to shut up or she was going to stop the car and get out and walk. She hasn't used that threat since we were dating (over 25 years ago)._

I would have stopped that car immediately and told her to get out and walk if she can't be respectful. 

It also kind of sounds like you're a little scared of her reactions. You've got to be strong around her when she's like that, or the disrespect will multiply.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

She may be jealous. She may be disatisfied in her job.

Are you working less hours? How did HER life get better?

Or are you golfing more?

If you are a VP in IT you are getting a mobile device. Are you still a VP? Did you take a lower status position? 
This does smack of money concerns.

You do need to set a boundary on the disrespect. Calmly tell her you are not going allow her to bash on you. But this is a symptom of other things.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

How about asking her if she would like to be treated the way she has been treating you?


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

QueenofEverything said:


> As I was reading this I was thinking _"I wonder if there is a money issue"_ then I got to the part about changing jobs.
> 
> Not to excuse her behavior, I am just trying to get some insight.
> Will you guys be okay financially? Not just income but are you
> ...


I really don't think we will suffer financially. Right now, we don't have to think much about going out to a nice restaurant whenever we want, or go on nice vacations and stay at really nice places, or getting a new car every couple of years. We don't have much debt, either.

With the new job, we will just have to be more judicious about spending freely for a while. I don't see it as a big burden.

She has not mentioned any new male friends or acquaintances, she actually goes to the gym less now than she did a few months ago, and she is not dressing any differently other than it's summer now, and she wears lighter weigh clothes to work.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Brandy905 said:


> Has anything been going on with your son? Teenagers can be rough, I know from experience. If there have been some issues with him and she doesn't feel you support her and you are supporting him, she could feel it's her against the two of you. In essence she is the only parent in the family. I have caught myself doing this to my husband and let him know I need his support.


Our son is pretty close to being a perfect kid. He is a straight-A student in high school, he is a varsity soccer player as a freshman, works as a lifeguard, and has a decent group of like-minded friends. He is a happy and well-adjusted kid by all accounts.

I'm not aware of any issues he has, and in fact, I am just as involved in his activities as she is.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Lloyd Dobler said:


> I agree - you need to put your foot down when she disrespects you and then minimizes it.
> 
> For instance, you wrote:
> 
> ...


I will be the first to admit that I have been a bit taken back by her reactions, maybe even somewhat timid in my response, because her behavior is completely new and foreign to me. I don't want to rise to her bait, and get in a screaming match. I just want an opportunity to discuss this rationally without her being so dismissive of my feelings.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

How much time do you spend together?

How much damage was you previous job to the marriage?


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> She may be jealous. She may be disatisfied in her job.
> 
> Are you working less hours? How did HER life get better?
> 
> ...


I agree that her behavior is a symptom of something else going on, either something I have done that merits less respect from her, or some issue with her that makes her react this way.

There may be more going on with her job than she is letting on. I do know her boss lady is a narcissist, but she isn't around a lot a generally stays out of my wife's work. Perhaps the coworker leaving changes the dynamic, I will ask her when we talk.

Yes, I was a VP at my last two jobs at smaller companies. The new job will be a management position with a Fortune 500 corporation, with more opportunities to earn raises and bonuses, and to be more upwardly mobile. I will not be issued a company cell phone, I will get an allowance to use my own phone.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Honest question.

Do you really care 'why'?

or do you just want the behavior to stop?

Is there possibly a reason that we, or she could give you that would validate the kind of behavior you describe?

Can provide you with an array of suggestions to eliminate the behavior. Whether you are comfortable with them is another story. And despite this being in the ladies lounge, no doubt in my mind, most of your input is going to come from men. 

Tolerating that kind of treatment is little more than passive acceptance and encouraging further disrespect.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, I don't think he wants to just shut her down, either, Deejo. He seems thoughtful and intelligent. His wife seems smart, too.

I think your idea of a heart to heart with her is good, OP. Be sure to use Active Listening, basically repeating back to her, or paraphrasing, what she says, making sure you understand her. The more sincerely and patiently you do this, the more she should open up.

I have no doubt there is some deep resentment there. And money concerns, even if only in her imagination, can give a person the shakes.

The main thing is to get some deep communication going, so you can start to solve the real problems.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> How much time do you spend together?
> 
> How much damage was you previous job to the marriage?


We spend a lot of time together. We walk 2 miles every morning weather permitting. We have lunch together about once a week. We have regular "date nights" a couple of times a month. We also go to the school bus stop together in he morning, and to my son's soccer matches together. If anything, we might spend too much time together.

I think I learned my lesson about a job damaging my relationship from my job previous to the last one. I was unhappy for a number of years, and complained a lot about it, but never put much effort into finding something else. Then there was a "reorganization" and I was let go. I found another job that paid really well in 2 or 3 months, but I knew there was a risk of the job not being what I really wanted, but it was better than being unemployed. I actually enjoyed the job for about a year or so until a change in ownership made it untenable for me about 6-8 months ago.

She lost a lot of respect for me because I stayed at the previous job for so long without doing anything about it, and when I was let go, she really lost respect. My "man rank" was pretty close to zero.

This time, I was determined to do something about being in a job I didn't like (even thought the pay was really great), so I did something about it, and got a new albeit lower paying job with a great company doing something right in my career "sweet spot".


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## WillinTampa (Jun 18, 2014)

The next time she threatens to get out of the car -- insist on it and drive away.

You need to get in your wife's face the next time and tell her that she won't talk to you that way. 

Don't listen to her excuses or bla, bla, bla -- you won't be disrespected PERIOD. 

Would you let one of your employees talk to you like that?


(Just be careful she's not trying to goad you into hitting her. )


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jld said:


> Well, I don't think he wants to just shut her down, either, Deejo. He seems thoughtful and intelligent. His wife seems smart, too.


Doesn't matter if they live in an ivory tower or a trailer, intelligent or otherwise. The tenets are the same.

It isn't about shutting her down. It's about letting her know that she hit a boundary. It's about being clear what those boundaries are.

It's about understanding how the dynamic works. The moment I read the words, "and when I tried to defend myself ..." he had already lost, and by virtue of the fact that he did feel compelled to defend himself, actually escalated her. 

I'm all for deep communication, I hope it works, truly. But ... if instead the conversation goes somewhere she decides she doesn't like, and she shuts that down too? 

Then we'll talk.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Honest question.
> 
> Do you really care 'why'?
> 
> ...


I do want the behavior to stop, but I also think that if I understand what is behind the behavior, the odds of said behavior stopping goes up.

I feel like I am aware that part of the problem is respect. Her behavior has been disrespectful. I understand that my respect is earned and must be maintained. I'm trying to determine if the root cause is me (new lower paying job, or something else I have or haven't done), or with her (her own issues, work issues, jealously, resentment, etc.). She has not been communicating rationally with me lately, so I don't really know what's up with her.

Plus, this is new territory for me, she has never been like this before, so I'm sure I have not handled it well, and in doing so, I have probably encouraged more disrespectful behavior.

I'm hoping to have a rational discussion with her in the near future, and the possibility of understanding the reason for the disrespect would be helpful for me to know prior to said discussion.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Glad to see you take time for her, keeper. That investment is so very important in a marriage.

As Deejo said, do not defend or give information when you do the active listening. It will shut things down. Your goal is to draw out what is inside of her, to really hear her heart.

From your earlier post, it sounds like you have had some instability in your career. Just reading it, I can see how she would have some anxiety around that. And you are early 50s, so that is probably weighing on her mind in terms of your career prospects, too.

You are smart and sensitive, and I think you are starting to address this the right way, by really seeking to understand her.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

keeper63 said:


> She has not been communicating rationally with me lately, so I don't really know what's up with her.
> 
> Plus, this is new territory for me, she has never been like this before, so I'm sure I have not handled it well, and in doing so, I have probably encouraged more disrespectful behavior.
> 
> I'm hoping to have a rational discussion with her in the near future, and the possibility of understanding the reason for the disrespect would be helpful for me to know prior to said discussion.



To be clear, I do want to help, not just criticize.

Reread your 1st and last paragraphs in the quote above. Keep them in mind when you decide to have your sit-down.

The moment it starts to look 'irrational', you need to end the conversation. I'm going to guess that your first instinct will be to fix or save it ( I say that based upon my own instincts of once upon a time).

Don't.

Let it go. Stop. 
Say something like, "I hope we can finish this sometime, but not now."
If she's being irrational, for the love of God don't tell her she's being irrational.

Just. End. it.

I think you can spin your wheels for weeks trying to wonder why, she's doing what she's doing. Sometimes the way to get to the truth is to address the behavior stemming from it.

I remember when I used to sit down and try to have these heart to heart conversations with my ex. Her answer was always, "I don't know."

The truth of which meant 2 things; either she really didn't know, which isn't acceptable, or she did know but couldn't give it voice, also unacceptable. Thus ... we are now former spouses. And admittedly, get along a hell of lot better than when married. I have posted numerous times, that we both respect one another once again.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I'd want to know the why behind the behaviors too,Op.I have to know these things! lol


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

keeper63 said:


> We spend a lot of time together. We walk 2 miles every morning weather permitting. We have lunch together about once a week. We have regular "date nights" a couple of times a month. We also go to the school bus stop together in he morning, and to my son's soccer matches together. If anything, we might spend too much time together.
> 
> I think I learned my lesson about a job damaging my relationship from my job previous to the last one. I was unhappy for a number of years, and complained a lot about it, but never put much effort into finding something else. Then there was a "reorganization" and I was let go. I found another job that paid really well in 2 or 3 months, but I knew there was a risk of the job not being what I really wanted, but it was better than being unemployed. I actually enjoyed the job for about a year or so until a change in ownership made it untenable for me about 6-8 months ago.
> 
> ...


I wonder. How much of this was your drop in confidence and all of the rest. I do get what you are saying. 

Being desired do to your status is much like a woman depending on her looks alone I think.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Deejo said:


> To be clear, I do want to help, not just criticize.
> 
> Reread your 1st and last paragraphs in the quote above. Keep them in mind when you decide to have your sit-down.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the advice. In typical man fashion, my first instinct is usually to try to fix/save the discussion, as you noted. Our MC told us many times that males are like firemen, when they see the fire they just want to put it out.

One of the contributing factors that has really bothered me is that a couple of these episodes where she really dissed me took place in the presence of my 16 yo son. The last thing I want to role-model for him is to see my wife treat me disrespectfully, I don't want him to think that it is OK to let someone treat him like that. 

I can't undo that, but I reckon at some point if/when we can communicate rationally again, one or both of us need to explain to him that allowing someone to treat him with a lack of respect (girlfriend, wife, friend, co-worker, etc.) is not OK.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I wonder. How much of this was you drop in confidence and all of the rest. I do get what you are saying.
> 
> Being desired do to your status is much like a woman depending on her looks alone I think.


In that instance, I don't think she lost respect for me strictly because of my change in career status. She lost respect for me because I continued to "take it up the a$$" at work for years, complain to her about it, and not take any significant steps to get another job. 

When I finally lost that job (as opposed to leaving on my own terms), I think she saw it as being my own fault that I stuck around too long without doing anything about it and allowed myself to be victimized by losing the job.

Those two things put my "man rank" in a free fall in her eyes.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Keeper,
I've been through this cycle with M2 and come out the other side. 

I want you to think about a few things:
1. Your son is just about perfect (I believe you - the sincerity in your posts rings clear and consistent)
2. Your son already gave you the 'now you know how I feel comment')
3. This means that he feels that your W is frequently disrespectful to him
4. If that is true, and you have allowed that to go on for some time without giving her feedback, you owe him an apology

My guess is that your nervousness about these conversations with your W causes you to talk far more than you should. 

As for your comment about avoiding a screaming match. That is a wise observation. Because no matter what your wife does to provoke you, losing your temper is a show of weakness and will decrease her respect for you. You don't have to let her scream at you. But you need to stay calm. 

Go for a nice long run. Then open up the conversation with a simple statement: 

It seems that you feel less respect for me than you used to. Why is that? If I had to guess, it has to do with how I have managed my career. We're on the same team, if you feel I'm letting you down, I want you to tell me. 

Then let her talk. If she won't talk - you can't force it. But you should leave the door open with:

It's ok if you don't want to talk about it now. In the meantime, this type behavior is destructive. 

---------
If your W gets angry - and you've had a hard workout ahead of time - you will stay calm. And when she does get wound up you can give her a sympathetic look and say: 
- If I really thought you were angry about my phone management skills, I'd sign up for a Verizon class. But I'm thinking it's likely something else. 
- You might actually feel better if you just said what it is you are unhappy about. 

No matter what, stay calm and constructive and do not apologize for challenging her behavior. If she opens up and is constructive, than thank her for that. 


QUOTE=keeper63;9259538]I appreciate the advice. In typical man fashion, my first instinct is usually to try to fix/save the discussion, as you noted. Our MC told us many times that males are like firemen, when they see the fire they just want to put it out.

One of the contributing factors that has really bothered me is that a couple of these episodes where she really dissed me took place in the presence of my 16 yo son. The last thing I want to role-model for him is to see my wife treat me disrespectfully, I don't want him to think that it is OK to let someone treat him like that. 

I can't undo that, but I reckon at some point if/when we can communicate rationally again, one or both of us need to explain to him that allowing someone to treat him with a lack of respect (girlfriend, wife, friend, co-worker, etc.) is not OK.[/QUOTE]


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Honest question.
> 
> Do you really care 'why'?
> 
> ...


I am going to agree with Deejo to a point. The why IS important. But the behavior has to stop. Then the why can be addressed. Your assertion of effective limit setting will help re-establish the respect from which a constructive dialog can possibly commence. As Deejo suggests, stop the behavior. And for my part, THEN you can address the why.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> In that instance, I don't think she lost respect for me strictly because of my change in career status. She lost respect for me because I continued to "take it up the a$$" at work for years, complain to her about it, and not take any significant steps to get another job.
> 
> When I finally lost that job (as opposed to leaving on my own terms), I think she saw it as being my own fault that I stuck around too long without doing anything about it and allowed myself to be victimized by losing the job.
> 
> Those two things put my "man rank" in a free fall in her eyes.


Man rank can be recovered and even strengthened greater than before. You have a nice title of "VP".

You see that you cannot really complain to the wife. You know how we tell our sons "not to cry and take it like a man"... I guess there was always a good reason for that.

Social validation will raise you up and you will be able to excite your wife better than you could have ever imagined.

Once you recover all of your "man chips" ( in the poker game ), you will actively not give them away.

Your "VP" status could make you a literal demi-god in the world. You need to learn how to play that.

I wouldn't cry about it and realize you are going to recover quite a bit getting into this new opportunity.

Don't look to the wife for validation today. Build it outside of her, and one day let her peek into your world and see all the external validation you have. You will be her hero again.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> In that instance, I don't think she lost respect for me strictly because of my change in career status. She lost respect for me because I continued to "take it up the a$$" at work for years, complain to her about it, and not take any significant steps to get another job.
> 
> When I finally lost that job (as opposed to leaving on my own terms), I think she saw it as being my own fault that I stuck around too long without doing anything about it and allowed myself to be victimized by losing the job.
> 
> Those two things put my "man rank" in a free fall in her eyes.


"Man rank" is serious. Women don't even understand. A crashing "man rank" could make you lose confidence in your sex and cause you to get ED.

A strong "man rank" will give you great raging boners and success in life.

The wife reflects that into her man.

But of course she can't unsee or unhear things and it's up to us men to manage that!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Honest question.
> 
> Do you really care 'why'?
> 
> ...


I agree fully with Dejoo here.

OP,
Yes there is something behind her actions, but there are obvious communication problems and a certain type of relationship dynamic has developed. As long as you are part of that dynamic it would be near impossible to accurately pinpoint and fix the problem.

Have a look at this webpage:

Therapy Ideas » Rhoda Mills SommerMANIPULATION & Relationship Triangles » Therapy Ideas

Here is a diagram that might help.



If you can identify yourself [ and wife ] with any or the roles in the blue triangle below, then you need to stop, get yourself out and redefine yourself into a positive role. Each person agreeing to take responsibility for the dysfunction is the first step. Then ,setting proper boundaries and rules of engagement both of you can agree upon is the next. 
No casting blame.

The ideal is the roles in the yellow triangle to restore a healthy communication / relationship dynamic.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I am going to agree with Deejo to a point. The why IS important. But the behavior has to stop. Then the why can be addressed. Your assertion of effective limit setting will help re-establish the respect from which a constructive dialog can possibly commence. As Deejo suggests, stop the behavior. And for my part, THEN you can address the why.


What do you specifically suggest to "stop the behavior?"


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I second NobodySpecial's post .......you need to nip the disrespectful behavior in the bud first. By not dealing with it, you're only perpetuating the lack of respect. After that, is when the 'why' can come into play.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But what would you specifically suggest to stop it, hearts?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

keeper63 said:


> It really came to a head yesterday. My cell phone had slipped off the seat and onto the floor of the car. I was looking around for it before I picked it up off the floor. In a very serious tone, she said "You really should have bought the phone insurance they offered at the phone store". She went on about how I drop my phone all the time, how I don't understand and use the features of my phone anyway, and how relieved she was that I wasn't going to get a second cell phone with my new job because I was incapable of managing one phone much less two phones.
> 
> It came off as very disrespectful, much like a parent would treat a young child. *When I began to defend myself*, she cut me off and told me to shut up or she was going to stop the car and get out and walk. She hasn't used that threat since we were dating (over 25 years ago).


Defending yourself isn't the route to respect. 

Maybe it's just the way I see it, I don't know, but defending your position is different to expressing a clear boundary and advising when someone has crossed it.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

jld said:


> But what would you specifically suggest to stop it, hearts?


Hey, I'm no expert so I'll preface that my husband and I are still working on our communication but what I can offer is that when my husband calls me out on something, it's very clear to me that I need to check myself. 

In those moments, he doesn't defend his position, he just states (in his own way) that my behavior isn't cool in that moment. It's not about the topic, it's about his boundaries. From my perspective, I know he's a reasonable dude, and it brings me to pause and recognize it for what it is and respect that. If there's further discussion that's needed, then so be it. That conversation can happen immediately following but it's got to occur with us being on the same page and both of us feeling heard and respected. And this goes both ways.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

We had a long talk this evening. She is apparently having difficulties at work that she was trying to "keep at the office". She was nevertheless coming home from work, and taking her stress and frustrations out on my son and me.

I think the mistake I made was letting her do this without calling her out on her behavior sooner. She didn't realize the extent of her disrespect until I told her rationally and unemotionally how it made me feel.

She was very contrite and apologized to me in front of my son, and apologized to him.

We talked about the steps she needed to take to change her job situation. I think once her work situation is resolved (i.e. she finds a new one), she will go back to how she was before. In the meantime, I told her that I was going to let her know immediately when I think she has crossed the respect boundary.

I will continue to monitor the situation. She has asked me to be patient with her and give her a sounding board for her work problems while she goes through the process of finding another job.

Thanks to everyone for their input. It was very helpful. I really love this website!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> I told her that I was going to let her know immediately when I think she has crossed the respect boundary.


This^^^ is important, but it's supposed to work both ways.So both of you are responsible for keeping that boundary. 

The ideal is for both of you to be able to express your feelings about anything to each other ,without either one of you feeling like a victim , bad guy / gal , or rescuer.

Both must accept responsibility for their feelings, actions and reactions at all times.
Good work so far. 
Glad to see some progress.
.


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## Sunburn (Jul 9, 2012)

keeper63 said:


> It came off as very disrespectful, much like a parent would treat a young child. When I began to defend myself, she cut me off and told me to shut up or she was going to stop the car and get out and walk. She hasn't used that threat since we were dating (over 25 years ago).


you're 25 years too late


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> We had a long talk this evening. She is apparently having difficulties at work that she was trying to "keep at the office". She was nevertheless coming home from work, and taking her stress and frustrations out on my son and me.
> 
> I think the mistake I made was letting her do this without calling her out on her behavior sooner. She didn't realize the extent of her disrespect until I told her rationally and unemotionally how it made me feel.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you got to the bottom of it. I was going to put in my two cents that sometimes when this kind of thing happens, it's about something completely different that what you initially think it is, but you've already figured that out


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> I understand that people go through different moods, and that no one is steady state. But we have been together for a long time, and this is different. She has never been like this that I can remember.
> 
> I could be over-analyzing, but I don't think I am.


It's not the pay cut. I think it is stress (perhaps partly due to the pay cut) and her phase in life, assuming she is late 40's, early 50s. It may be a bit of a midlife crisis/scrambling reassessment that is contributing to a lack of patience.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> We had a long talk this evening. She is apparently having difficulties at work that she was trying to "keep at the office". She was nevertheless coming home from work, and taking her stress and frustrations out on my son and me.
> 
> I think the mistake I made was letting her do this without calling her out on her behavior sooner. She didn't realize the extent of her disrespect until I told her rationally and unemotionally how it made me feel.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup:

Good news!!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

jld said:


> What do you specifically suggest to "stop the behavior?"


Effective limit setting.


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