# Calls and texts to ex-boyfriend



## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

I've been on TAM for awhile for general relationship advice, but like everyone else says, I never thought I'd be posting in this forum. This morning I found some information that hit me like a ton of bricks, but first some backstory.

I am 41, my wife is 39 and we have been together for almost 16 years, married for more than 12. We have two kids, ages 7 and 5. We live a very comfortable lifestyle, and we are both attractive and in-shape people.

To make this short, like most couples we've had ups and downs in our marriage, but one thing I felt for sure was that we would always be faithful and loyal to each other. At the beginning of this year, I realized that I needed to be more open and connected with my wife, and I began to go to individual counseling to work on myself and address some trauma from my childhood. This has been really good for me, but has put some strain on our relationship due in part to the fact that my wife is not used to me trying to open up to her. She has been complaining that she feels suffocated and needs space.

About a month ago (mid-August), things came to a head and we had some really hard conversations. The gist of these conversations was that my wife doesn't feel any passion for me and never really has. She came from a traumatic past as well (including CSA) and she basically married me because I provided her with security and checked all the right boxes. She thought that the passion would come with time, but she says it never did. I was devastated.

We decided that she needed to start individual counseling for her issues and and we needed to do marriage counseling to see if we could make this work. Once we started marriage counseling, things seemed to be trending in the right direction, but on Monday of this week we had a really tough conversation about how my wife is scared that she'll never develop those kinds of feelings for me. She did everything but say the ILYBINILWY line. During this conversation, it seemed like she was holding something back, and I grilled her hard about whether there was anything or anyone else.

In addition, I have noticed some recent obvious red flags. Last week, she changed her phone passcode. She said that she did it because the kids kept downloading stuff onto her phone, which is a plausible explanation, but she seemed defensive and over-explanatory when she raised the issue. And she didn't tell me what her new passcode was (we've always known each other's passcodes). That raised a red flag. I actually figured out what her new passcode was (but never looked in her phone), but then she changed it again a few days ago. She also seemed much more protective with her phone.

So when we had our conversation on Monday night, alarm bells were going off big time, but my wife assured me that she would never cheat on me and there was no one else. If she had feelings for someone else, she would simply leave me.

I should also mention that our sex life has been okay for the last few years. We have sex anywhere from 1-4 times a week. She almost always orgasms, several times, but recently our sex has become increasingly robotic. Almost like I'm a human vibrator for her. And then two weeks ago, she told me that with everything we were going through, she wasn't comfortable being intimate with me. Yes, another red flag.

This morning, something got in my head to check phone logs. I honestly didn't expect to find anything. I mean, we're in lock down; I work from home and she's a stay at home mom, so when could she be talking to someone else. Well, you guessed it, I found dozens of phone calls (9 hours worth) going back to July with her ex-boyfriend that she dated for a few years right before meeting me. Get this, she broke up with him because he cheated on her. This guy lives out of state, so there's no way they could have physically cheated, but clearly an emotional affair is happening.

What's most disturbing is that fact that although it appears that he initiated these conversations, she quickly became engaged and since then she has initiated most of the calls. The calls have been very streaky. They talked for a week straight at the end of July, then two weeks of no calls, then two weeks straight (almost every day) in mid-August, then two weeks of no calls and then a lot of calls this past week.

Advise me TAM. I am breaking down here and need to get my stuff together. I need to confront her tonight, but need some advice on how to approach it.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Before you do anything else you need to ask yourself do you want to stay in the marriage. You are married to someone who doesn’t find you attractive and sees you as a paycheck/safety net.

I would like to know how long she has been cheating (and she is cheating) and whether he’s the first guy she cheated with. I find it almost impossible to believe that your wife can have lived all these years without some passion in her life, so she’s either rewriting history or she really doesn’t love you and never has. 
If you want try and save your marriage then you’re going to have to show your wife that you’re prepared to lose it. Print out all of her texts to her boyfriend and also print out divorce papers (they don’t have to be official, it’s shock value your looking for) and hand them to her tonight and ask her to make her mind up who she wants. 
Then go for a drive or a walk with your phone off. 
Come back here with the answer she gives you and there’s plenty of smart people who can advise you. The first thing she has to do is cut off all contact with her boyfriend, anything else is unacceptable.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

The non-disclosure of texting with an XBF is a host of red flags. Your W is cheating(EA) at the very least. Continue to snoop and collect evidence before confronting.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

clearly she has been lying to your face about cheating, I am with Andy here, not sure why you would stay with someone who is not in love with you...and for her to be sneaky like this is just sick


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

Andy, thanks for the response and I agree with everything you say. I am sensitive to red flags, and this has been the only time I've ever had any warning bells going off. We've always had full access to each other's accounts and lives. Our marriage did have passion before kids, and if she wasn't in love with me then, she is an unbelievable con artist. The passion has really decreased over the years since kids, but she is definitely rewriting history to some extent.

I love my wife with everything I have, but I cannot stomach a marriage with someone who doesn't love me. I don't know if this marriage can be saved or if I even want to at this point, but I will not tolerate this.

A point of clarification: I have not seen the content of any texts. Based on the logs, there have been only a few texts and they have only come from him. That tells me that it's very likely they have taken written comms to an app. Based on what my wife has told me, this guy is an experienced cheater, so he would know what to do.

I would like input on how to confront. I have two thoughts:

1. Sit her down tonight after the kids are in bed and give her one shot to tell the truth if she wants any chance of saving this marriage.
2. Tell her I know about her and her ex (without telling her exactly what I know), hand her printed out divorce papers, tell her to decide, and leave.
3. Something else?


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

Of course today, I have a full slate of calls for work, and I feel like I'm not even in my own body.

How could she sit in marriage counseling with me talking about how much she wanted to save our marriage all while talking to this d-bag?


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## Kamstel2 (Feb 24, 2020)

solid plan!!
Refuse to be anyone’s Plan B!!!!

by handing her the divorce papers you are taking control of the situation away from her and into your hands!!!

Good luck!
Stay Strong!!


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## Kamstel2 (Feb 24, 2020)

Don’t let her know what you know or how you know it!!!


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Can you get divorce papers that fast? Having never done it, not sure how it works. 

There are 2 things I can think of adding: 
1. Finding the best divorce attorney, and either hiring or getting a consultation. that way, she can't hire that attorney, even if you can't afford them. 
2. Having evidence of the affair. Like phone records. I assume you don't have text messages or emails, but phone records of someone talking for hours and hours to not their spouse is not a good sign. 

And I assume you're pretty emotionally strong, given you're thinking this clearly after it all. But when she breaks down crying in front of you, (my guess after she tries lying about it) how are you going to handle that?


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

WAIT! Something else I missed! 
When you said hand her divorce papers, decide, and leave. 

DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE!
Without knowing what state you're in, DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE! You might lose it. 

Also, I would suggest getting some kind of recording device, and having it when you hand this to your wife. She might decide to lie to the police and say you get verbally or physically abusive, try filing something with the police. 
I don't know if the device will keep you out of jail, but might help. 
And DO NOT TELL HER ABOUT IT.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I would also ask her (and look for a real answer - do not let her fob you off) why she would consider talking to an "experienced cheater" especially one who has cheated on her before?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

I don't understand it, I just don't understand how can it be that a person male or female can just sit there wallowing in self pity , fears, and paralyzed, trying the save WHAT??? Man, YOU are afraid, you has been too comfortable deluding yourself into "making house" with a woman that never was into you at all, just a paycheck insurance; and you just sit there trying to save nothing, because there's nothing to save. It's all just from your end, living in "hopium" for something that never was there. She's giving the "not sure" vibe because she's only afraid to lose the comfort to which she's been accustomed with you. You just wait until she finds your replacement, you'll be dumped in a NY minute.it seems she's getting there, sooner or later.

In the other hand, you are showing that you lack self respect, self worth, and pride. If I were in your shoes, the moment I was told that I was only a paycheck, I would have been gone, no buts about about it. Remember you would be divorcing her not your children. It's a whole lot better for your children to live in two separate or one happy house than in a dysfunctional family where they are learning that that's the normal. That would mess the up for when they grow up and try to mimic what they learned from their parents. Big fail.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

Rob1, you have some valid points, but I'll say this:

Based on the vows I made, which I take seriously no matter how she feels about me, I owe it to our marriage and our family to try to work it out. When I look my son or daughter in the eye when they're older, I can honestly tell them that I tried my best. She can throw away her morals and values, but I have mine. It's not a question of self-respect or pride. You don't know me from Adam, but these are not problems for me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Satisfied Mind said:


> I've been on TAM for awhile for general relationship advice, but like everyone else says, I never thought I'd be posting in this forum. This morning I found some information that hit me like a ton of bricks, but first some backstory.
> 
> I am 41, my wife is 39 and we have been together for almost 16 years, married for more than 12. We have two kids, ages 7 and 5. We live a very comfortable lifestyle, and we are both attractive and in-shape people.
> 
> ...


Get strong, now! MAN THE **** UP! I say that as a fellow guy because sometimes we need to hear it. Now is not the time to breakdown, you are in an active warzone. This is the fight of your life. You post on here you know the deal. Fight!

Collect evidence. Get in touch with a lawyer. Get the paperwork.

File for divorce. You can try all you want but she has shown you that she is not into you, she told you as much. Even if it's because she is having this emotional affair. You know enough. Life is too short. She told you she is not into you. You deserve someone who is. Tell her as much and ask for an amicable divorce. Tell her to get a job, she has too much time on her hands and not enough responsibility.

If you don't want a divorce at least act like you do. Have the papers ready. Even if you print them out. 

If you talk to her tonight, get the phone tonight. This is a must, - hand it over or we are done! now! Don't give her a chance to scrub it. Take it and leave the room, make a back up of it when you get it. Check her app activity because some apps are hidden in plain site. Know how to do that before you get the phone depending on model. 

Make sure you know what you are talking about. Have the phone records to point to, highlight them if need be so she can weasel out of it.

If you can go somewhere else for a while after you talk do so. You want shock and awe. Turn off your phone and make her sit with her choice.

Make a promise to yourself and then believe that you are going to be just as good without her, if it comes to that, then you would be with her. Then BELIEVE THAT. Operate from that position.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

You can self deluge all you want. It's your life. But make no mistake your self immolation at the altar of vows is just that: a self immolation. You still will be showing your kids how a weak man reacts to news that he was never it. It will show them that is OK to live a life of lies and pretend. That it's OK to keep family together just for some vows that in reality means nothing in the face of the fact your marriage is a sham from the moment you made those vows. So yeah, go ahead keep telling yourself any and all excuses you see fit to keep living the lie of your life with your wife that has always been. Just bury your head in the sand. Good luck with that.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

sokillme, thanks for the pep talk. Message received.

Rob1, it's interesting being on this side of the fence after having read others' stories. I've always felt similarly to you; objectively I know it's not, but it feels like a completely different situation happening to me. There's something about being lied to to my face by the one person I've trusted with my life and well-being for almost two decades that has rocked me. I appreciate your input and the tough love.

Here's what I know for sure. 

1. Being a paycheck for someone who doesn't love me is not an option.
2. I am a successful attorney in the prime of my life, I'm 6'2" and in incredible shape and objectively I'm a good looking dude, and with the work that I've been doing on myself, I know I'd be just fine on my own.
3. I am regrouping and will be prepared for tonight. Printed out divorce papers are being presented to her, and I will get answers from her without letting her know what I know.
4. I'm surrounded by good people.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

You don't have to believe a word I say. Even though I do understand how horrible and terrifying is to know that you most break the family; but if you read all the posts in this forum or others you will eventually realize that only individuals that were strong, objective, and that even with all the fears they have, in the end they realized that they were better off out of such relationship than trying to force something that never was there to begin with. You can not force love, it's either there or not. although some people have successful reconciliations is after years of terrible pain and suffering and the relationship is never the same as it was. That is why when I see OPs with situation like yours my advice is always to get out. is for the best for all parties involved.

Even if you weren't the successful, tall, handsome Attorney that you are; anyone else will also have better chances at obtaining happiness and equilibrium with somebody they know that is into them, guarantee.


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## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

I'd probably take you up on the divorce if I was her. Half of your income, child support and spousal support. How many times do you need to tell us how good looking you are?


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

My ex wife also married the checklist that I represented. She also said that she stayed in the relationship hoping that feelings would develop. Two days ago was the 2nd anniversary of her moving out. The relationship was a mistake and I regret a lot of the time that I spent in it. Don't be me. GTFO ASAP. Cheating or not, she's not who you should be with.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Satisfied Mind said:


> I've been on TAM for awhile for general relationship advice, but like everyone else says, I never thought I'd be posting in this forum. This morning I found some information that hit me like a ton of bricks, but first some backstory.
> 
> I am 41, my wife is 39 and we have been together for almost 16 years, married for more than 12. We have two kids, ages 7 and 5. We live a very comfortable lifestyle, and we are both attractive and in-shape people.
> 
> ...


I’m so sorry this is happening to you. First off, I’m not much further along in this process than you. But I just wanted to say, I got the “there is no passion and it’s never been there” speech right around the time I was getting cheated on. Apparently cheaters enjoy making up new histories to corroborate their disgusting actions learned that here and in some reading I’m doing. She’s probably been spending the past several months convincing herself of all kinds of things about you. I want you to know that when it comes time to lay down your cards, she will still be operating in this construct and it will probably hurt even more the things that come out of her mouth. My WH didn’t start speaking from any degree of truth until it was apparent I was DONE. And even now still blames me in some measure for his “need for passion” as your wife put it. 

You, I believe, are in a lot of horrific pain and just searching for answers inside yourself and looking for why why why? My friend, there is no answer, and no explanation that will put your mind to rest. You’ll have to search yourself only for what you’re truly willing to put up with in your marriage. Those answers will be painful, but they need to be decided. You can go the way of trying to convince a person who did this to you to be the person you thought you loved again, that worked out terribly for me. Or decide you’re worth more than a person who is willing to destroy their family over the desire for a “spark”, still painful but with hope of a life without such a shallow and self serving a-hole. 
I wish you strength and wisdom in this horrible time. 
I’m so sorry. I feel your pain. Literally.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

gold5932 said:


> I'd probably take you up on the divorce if I was her. Half of your income, child support and spousal support. How many times do you need to tell us how good looking you are?


Its what many of the men who come here do.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Satisfied Mind said:


> Rob1, you have some valid points, but I'll say this:
> 
> Based on the vows I made, which I take seriously no matter how she feels about me, I owe it to our marriage and our family to try to work it out. When I look my son or daughter in the eye when they're older, I can honestly tell them that I tried my best. She can throw away her morals and values, but I have mine. It's not a question of self-respect or pride. You don't know me from Adam, but these are not problems for me.


Its good to see that some men will make that real effort not to devastate their childrens lives. Good for you. Most of the advise always given here ignores the fact that there are children who will suffer greatly if this marriage ends and one parent leaves. People say its ok, that children are strong and resiliant, nonsense. I know many families where the children were deepy hurt and very badly affected by their parents divorce. I have no idea how anyone could leave their children and go, I could never do that.
Thats not to say that your wife can act as she pleases, far from it. She will have to stop all contact and tell you everything for any chance of this working. Its impossible for me to understand what she sees in such an awful man.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Its good to see that some men will make that real effort not to devastate their childrens lives. Good for you. Most of the advise always given here ignores the fact that there are children who will suffer greatly if this marriage ends and one parent leaves. People say its ok, that children are strong and resiliant, nonsense. I know many families where the children were deepy hurt and very badly affected by their parents divorce. I have no idea how anyone could leave their children and go, I could never do that.
> Thats not to say that your wife can act as she pleases, far from it. She will have to stop all contact and tell you everything for any chance of this working. Its impossible for me to understand what she sees in such an awful man.


I would like to think that I’m teaching my children not to put up with a person that cheats, lies, deceives and betrays them, and not to become a person that cheats lies and betrays the person they vow to love, honor and cherish. Those actions cannot coexist, I’m simply removing the impossibility and becoming the example of what needs to be done. FOR my children. Respectfully.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

QuietRiot said:


> I would like to think that I’m teaching my children not to put up with a person that cheats, lies, deceives and betrays them, and not to become a person that cheats lies and betrays the person they vow to love, honor and cherish. Those actions cannot coexist, I’m simply removing the impossibility and becoming the example of what needs to be done. FOR my children. Respectfully.


I doubt the children even know about her contact with the OM. However they will know if one of their parents leaves. It can affect children well into adulthood.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I doubt the children even know about her contact with the OM. However they will know if one of their parents leaves. It can affect children well into adulthood.


Affairs are destructive and have thousands of trickledown effects upon the entire family even when nobody but the cheater knows about it. The children are affected NOW by this affair. Everyone is. Distraction, loss of time, loss of affection, projection of guilt, funneling family funds toward another, there are thousands of ways children are affected and “dont know it”. Having a cheating parent that will most certainly have zero remorse in the children’s lives as a model of how marriage works is not ok. I respectfully disagree with you. 
But back to the OP, I think it’s premature to be touting “save the marriage” when she is actively having an affair. Today.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

If you want to save your marriage, you can not come across as weak with your wife.

Print out the divorce papers and give them to her. Simply say you know about her and her ex. Then leave the room. Don’t give her the choice between the two of you. She needs to realize what she has lost. Then SHE has to fix the relationship by doing the heavy work.

You can not nice your wife back to you. That has always failed to save a marriage.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Its good to see that some men will make that real effort not to devastate their childrens lives. Good for you. Most of the advise always given here ignores the fact that there are children who will suffer greatly if this marriage ends and one parent leaves. People say its ok, that children are strong and resiliant, nonsense. I know many families where the children were deepy hurt and very badly affected by their parents divorce. I have no idea how anyone could leave their children and go, I could never do that.
> Thats not to say that your wife can act as she pleases, far from it. She will have to stop all contact and tell you everything for any chance of this working. Its impossible for me to understand what she sees in such an awful man.


Not everyone suffers. I glad my Mom divorced my cheating Dad. That was a good thing.

When I was cheated on my Mom was the perfect example. It's partly why I ghosted, which was in my mind the most courageous thing I have ever done. 

This clearly goes back to what I learned from her. It was also one of the best decisions and one of the ones I am most proud of. It was an act of character to not put up with abuse even though I thought I was would end up hurting myself at the time.


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## Kamstel2 (Feb 24, 2020)

How did it go?

dont allow yourself to be her Plan B!
Don’t be here meal ticket!!!


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I doubt the children even know about her contact with the OM. However they will know if one of their parents leaves. It can affect children well into adulthood


Diane: you said before that you did not lived a sheltered life, and that you have gone through tough times in your life, but to be honest with you by the kind of statements that you make, it doesn't seem that you have ever gone through any of that. I am not saying that you have not. I'm only saying that it does not seem to be the case because some of your post sound like you've never been on the outside looking in, just in the inside looking out. 

Of course it can affect children well into adulthood. It all depends on the parents behavior and how well they go through a divorce with their children at their best interest. If you see the way a lot of households are in today's economical world, if parent spend enough times during the week with their children is a wonder; unless one of the parent is home all the time.

So many divorce parents, due to the divorce are forced to spend a lot more quality time with their children than they did when married. You can have children of divorce as well adjusted happy individuals, or you can have psychologicallly damaged malcontented individuals just as much as you can have psycho killer from a loving family that are together. It all depends on factors; which divorcing parents can do their best to minimize damage or acerbate the damage to their kids. 

YOU just don't, ever stay marry with a cheating, conniving, disrespectful partner just because you have children. Where did you learned that??


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Satisfied Mind said:


> Of course today, I have a full slate of calls for work, and I feel like I'm not even in my own body.
> 
> How could she sit in marriage counseling with me talking about how much she wanted to save our marriage all while talking to this d-bag?


She has sabotaged the marital counselling, either by accident or on purpose.

Marital counselling where one of the spouses is cheating but lying to both their spouse and the councillor cannot work.

It's like a smoker who has been told to stop smoking for major surgery who is lying about having given up smoking.

Check your legal situation out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

QuietRiot said:


> Affairs are destructive and have thousands of trickledown effects upon the entire family even when nobody but the cheater knows about it. The children are affected NOW by this affair. Everyone is. Distraction, loss of time, loss of affection, projection of guilt, funneling family funds toward another, there are thousands of ways children are affected and “dont know it”. Having a cheating parent that will most certainly have zero remorse in the children’s lives as a model of how marriage works is not ok. I respectfully disagree with you.
> But back to the OP, I think it’s premature to be touting “save the marriage” when she is actively having an affair. Today.


Yes but as yet this one hasnt turned physical so its definitely worth trying to save the marriage if she is prepared to stop the phone calls. Better for all involved and no destroyed family.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> Diane: you said before that you did not lived a sheltered life, and that you have gone through tough times in your life, but to be honest with you by the kind of statements that you make, it doesn't seem that you have ever gone through any of that. I am not saying that you have not. I'm only saying that it does not seem to be the case because some of your post sound like you've never been on the outside looking in, just in the inside looking out.
> 
> Of course it can affect children well into adulthood. It all depends on the parents behavior and how well they go through a divorce with their children at their best interest. If you see the way a lot of households are in today's economical world, if parent spend enough times during the week with their children is a wonder; unless one of the parent is home all the time.
> 
> ...


There is no physical affair(adultery) here as yet, but an irregular on and off series of phone calls, which is why its definitely still worth trying to save. Yes I have gone though things far worse than this, and people in my family have also, but I have seen marriages saved from all sorts of things when both partners made the effort. My family is full of divorces, it always has bad consequences for many people even if the couple try and make it as smooth as possible. The childs world is still shattered. 
I would end a marriage due to adultery yes, but not because of an irregular series of phone calls. Like the op I would want to make every effort to save that marriage for my childrens sakes. If she refused to stop, and wasnt going to cooperate in anyway, then he may have no choice.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Diana: She doesn't love him. He's only been a nice meal ticket to her. She admitted it to him. Why the OP has to stay with a woman that he made serious vows to, when he is finding out that his whole life with her has been nothing but a convenient lie for her. I'm not the OP, but after a discovery like that, I would not stay with a woman like his wife for one single second children or not children. He can do much, much better, while at the same time providing for his children emotional and financial well being in a separate loving home.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Yes but as yet this one hasnt turned physical so its definitely worth trying to save the marriage if she is prepared to stop the phone calls. Better for all involved and no destroyed family.


The marriage can’t be saved if his wife has already checked out. She has already destroyed the marriage and family.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

We don’t know for sure that this hasn’t gotten physical. You guys don’t think a guy will jump on a plane for a sure thing? The wife, cutting him off after the sex becoming progressively more robotic for past few weeks reeks of a recent uptick in her relationship with POS. 

If you’ve been on TAM for a while, you should know that you’re fighting for your family, this not the time for flowery words about vows. The D card should be used with serious thought but you can’t take it off the table of options. It doesn’t mean you’re abandoning your family, that is what your wife is currently planning.

You need to demand she hand you her phone and you need to do a deep dive. The same goes for ipads, laptops, and social media and email accounts. 

now is not the time to show weakness. I fear that she is further along her exit plans than you realize.


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## Satisfied Mind (Jan 29, 2019)

First, thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I appreciate everyone sharing their viewpoints, but the debate about what will be best for my kids is not helpful. Just know that they are my top priority right now.

I confronted my wife this afternoon. It lasted about three minutes. I told her I knew she’s been lying to me and gave her the opportunity to tell me the truth. I told her I knew what she’s been doing with her ex and the only way she could possibly save our marriage was by being honest about it. She chose Door no. 2, so I handed her the printed out divorce papers and left.

She called me a bunch, but I didn’t answer. I came home about 6 hours later and we talked for awhile, but it was just an exercise in blame-shifting, half-assed apologies, and a failure to see the magnitude of what she did. They are just friends, even though she’s vehemently insisted throughout our marriage that (1) married people cannot be friends with exes they slept with and (2) this particular ex was an asshole. But hey, I’m happy for her new found friendship. The brazenness of her response to all of this has been eye opening.

So yeah, she’s deep in the fog, but it gets even better. Checking the call logs again tonight, I see that she actually called this dude earlier this evening after I initially confronted her. When I asked her why she called him, her response: “Just to say hey.” The callousness was astounding, but I guess I’m finding out who she really is. Starting tomorrow I’m taking steps to protect myself. 

First thing up, I’m getting lawyer recommendations now and will be setting up calls ASAP.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sorry dude.


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## Kamstel2 (Feb 24, 2020)

Sorry, but in the not so distant future, you will see this as a gift! 
Once you get outside of this hell, you will find a truly incredible world!!! And the only negative feeling you will have is because you will wonder why you didn’t kick her to the curb a long, long time ago!!

good luck and stay strong!!!


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Very sorry about all of this. You absolutely will do what’s best for your kids and yourself I’m sure. I hope you’ll still update on your situation, it may help you, I’ve found immense support and hope here. Good luck to you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I’m sorry. 

My guess is that she called him to warn him that you know. I doubt he’s actually interested in choosing her so she’ll likely be coming out of the affair fog soon. She probably doesn’t want a divorce — the papers will wake her up — so the promises will begin soon. 

If you plan to reconcile with her, make the deal advantageous to you — not her. And never again trust her (or anyone else) 100%. That’s asking for trouble.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blame shifting arises those _preexisting conditions._
Just another form of them.

Those preset notions, allowed her to proceed against good judgement and to permit her vows to you, to be set aside.

It allowed her to do damage to her marriage.

One needs an excuse to cheat.
Some excuses are thin, many flimsy.

Wishful, willful, wanton rationalization.

Such the squirrel talk.
I would love to hear how she rationalized shifting those acorns of hers from your nest (back) to his.

More likely, went on in her last relationship with this EX, than has been previously revealed.

Those two, her and her EX are in each others heads; likely, always were.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Satisfied Mind said:


> First, thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I appreciate everyone sharing their viewpoints, but the debate about what will be best for my kids is not helpful. Just know that they are my top priority right now.
> 
> I confronted my wife this afternoon. It lasted about three minutes. I told her I knew she’s been lying to me and gave her the opportunity to tell me the truth. I told her I knew what she’s been doing with her ex and the only way she could possibly save our marriage was by being honest about it. She chose Door no. 2, so I handed her the printed out divorce papers and left.
> 
> ...


Really sorry you are in this situation.

No contact is a hard line if a marriage is to be saved after infidelity.

Is she going through depression or some other issue?
It wouldn't be an excuse but maybe help to explain.

She obviously has her head up her ass right now, or as many refer to it, she is in the affair fog.

Read up on the 180 and keep in touch.

Again, very sorry she chose to destroy her family over this idiot.

She really doesn't seem to be coherent here.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

She called POS to warn him and to get their stories straight. She is not ready to make the leap, or more likely POS didn’t react like how she imagined. This POS is just looking for some easy sex, and gets off on having another woman fall for his lines. I doubt that He’s looking to take on a cheating wife with another man’s kids. 

now you need to expose POS to his wife/girlfriend. He will dump your wife ASAP. Also expose to her family. Not in a your daughter/sister is a who.. but in a help me fight for the family. The same with any close family friends. Don’t let shame or embarrassment stop you from this. Inaction from BHs is the main reason so many WWs continue their affairs. They view their BHs as weak, so choose to remain with the bolder man.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Satisfied Mind said:


> First, thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I appreciate everyone sharing their viewpoints, but the debate about what will be best for my kids is not helpful. Just know that they are my top priority right now.
> 
> I confronted my wife this afternoon. It lasted about three minutes. I told her I knew she’s been lying to me and gave her the opportunity to tell me the truth. I told her I knew what she’s been doing with her ex and the only way she could possibly save our marriage was by being honest about it. She chose Door no. 2, so I handed her the printed out divorce papers and left.
> 
> ...



little late to the dance.

Sorry you are here.

I have a nice write up that may help


1) First and foremost, your spouse is a person of low character
2) The affair is not nor will it ever be your fault
3) Lawyer. Today. Know your rights. Start the Divorce. Start to get primary rights to your kids (if you have some). You can always stop the process in the future
4) Doctor - get STD/STI/HIV tests started. Your life depends on it!
5) Counselor for you. One that has experience with infidelity. You're going to need to talk with someone about this
6) Get a good VAR (voice activated recorder). Keep it on you at all times your cheater is around you - this will protect you in case your cheater goes rogue and attempts to make DV (or whatever type of) claims
7) Eat.
8) Sleep (at least 8 hours a night if possible)
9) Drink water (avoid alcohol at this point, it won't help)
10) Get to gym and start working out - it helps the body, the mind, and the soul (obviously during covid, you'll have to figure out something else)
11) Start to separate funds
12) 180 like your life depended on it.
12a) A thought exercise that might help with the 180 is to realize that your cheating spouse simply didn't love you as much as you love them
12b) A thought exercise that will eventually help in the 180. Any and all questions in regards to their cheating is answered simply as "Because". No more, no less. It's an amazingly simplistic answer that enrages everyone in the beginning, but becomes unbelievably crystal clear once you reach the correct level in your healing and detachment
13) DNA your kids. Not so much to see if they are yours (hopefully they are), but to show her that you can't trust anything about her (again, if you have them)
14) Expose. Lies thrive in the dark.
15) Remember, 99.999% of everything that comes out of their mouth will be a lie in regards to the affair. They will minimize everything.
16) Don't know who originally posted it, but they are a genius:

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end, let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse, and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with, wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else. The changes will never stick when it's done for someone else. Do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to* let that person go*. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children. I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

I'm sorry you're in this mess. There was nothing you could have done to avoid this.

Whatever your wife's life issues are there were many ways for her to cope - but she chose a secretive inappropriate relationship with an Ex lover. 

She is no longer the girl you married. And because of her deceitful behavior you can't believe a word she says.

Inform her that she has made herself into a 'deceitful person' and she is no longer trustworthy.  It takes years to fix. From now on you will only judge/rely on what you can see (her actions). For example, NC, 100% transparency, no unaccounted for time, self help books ...

In addition, if there's any chance for R, inform her that you need a letter listing 10 reasons why she wants to stay married to you; and another letter listing 10 reasons you are superior to the Ex.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Cancel any further MC. I think most MC is a waste of time and money anyway, but in your case it is more so because your wife will not admit to the MC what she is doing.

Your wife has shown you who she is and what she thinks of you and your marriage....believe her. She has admitted she never loved you. You were always just a safe option. 

Calling her AP after you confronted her is so, so, so disrespectful to you.

Protect yourself and your kids.


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## NorseViking (Apr 14, 2018)

CSA? I have read too many cheating stories with that type of people. Those people has to be broken from the beginning you meet them.


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## NorseViking (Apr 14, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> If you want try and save your marriage then you’re going to have to show your wife that you’re prepared to lose it. Print out all of her texts to her boyfriend and also print out divorce papers (they don’t have to be official, it’s shock value your looking for) and hand them to her tonight and ask her to make her mind up who she wants.
> Then go for a drive or a walk with your phone off.


Yes, this. Show some force. Be tough, cold, firm, brutal. What ever.
Take no prisoners. Women respect strength. Doormats is doomed.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Openminded said:


> If you plan to reconcile with her, make the deal advantageous to you — not her. And never again trust her (or anyone else) 100%. That’s asking for trouble.


And with a marriage that works like that how can you not reconcile.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sounds like your wife likes the ones she can't have, like this dude. You were probably good marriage material, but now she has fallen back into her old ways. 

Tell her to get a job. 

Over and over, stay a home parents become entitled, and they change the dynamic turning their spouse into parent. After reading here I would never be cool with it except for a short period of time when the kids are young.


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## Thirtyyearsmore (Aug 13, 2019)

Just a word of support. You've handled this like a boss. 

The advice of "you have to be willing to lose it to fix it" is so true. It's going to be hard over the coming weeks/months but either your marriage survives or not. 

I know you have been very certain in your mind of your path and that is good, but doubts will come. Doubts strong enough to entertain reconciliation. If you chose that path it's okay. Just don't give up the strength and power in the relationship you have right now. It will be the only thing that will hold her accountable for her actions. 

If you continue with divorce. That's ok too. Same advice. Either way YOUR LIFE will be better.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Sorry this happened to you, brother.

first read proverbs 30:20. You don’t have to be religious to absorb the wisdom of it. They knew the same things 4,000 years ago you’re finding out now.

ok did you read it?

Yes that’s your wife. That’s who she is.

unfortunately you’re going to realize soon enough she has poisoned any future relationship with you with a radioactive dirty bomb even if nothing physical occurred. The intent was there. Count on it. I am quite sure sexual conversations and texts were exchanged.

note I said any future relationship. Because the marriage you had? Well that’s over. Really. It’s dead. She killed it. People who push reconciliation like to talk about “marriage 2.0” but at least they acknowledge what many try to avoid — which is that any of infidelity kills a marriage almost instantly.

people do try to rebuild. Some do so successfully but not very many. Most try reconciliation and suffer in a prolonged limbo — they show up decades later filled with regret that they tried to reconcile with someone who already demonstrated their low value.

So what to do?

well, you’re doing a lot better than I did by taking the initiative. You need to continue to mean it and act on it.

don’t go soft in the face of her tears and don’t succumb to hysterical bonding. Accept that this is who your wife is and that she’s a liar. Her tears are for herself — not for you.

I’m very sorry for your kids - you should be prepared to get them into counseling before the divorce.

your wife is no longer who you thought she was and has revealed herself to be the person she really is. The fog is ********. It’s an excuse. True character is revealed under pressure and your wife just revealed hers. Believe her.

now that you know who your wife is, you’re faced with an impossible conundrum: why would you want to remain married to someone like that? You won’t.

if you try to “reconcile” in a year or two you will resent her and find that she’s an unbelievable source of pain to you. Because it will sink in that any “love” she has for you isn’t real, and she’s carrying around a package of powerfully toxic neuroses that does indeed define her as a less than qualify person.

or at least defines her enough that she can’t reach in deep enough to find true remorse and help you heal. that’s the problem with trying to reconcile with adulterers: whatever was in them that made them cheat is still in them and automatically makes them bad candidates for finding empathy and developing a good EQ.

there are many women out in the world who would never do this to you. Automatically all of them now have a leg up on your wife. Several legs up.

normally I would have a “package of non negotiables” for people who want to try to reconcile. I can put it in this thread if you want, but really I think you’re saving yourself a lot of trouble by just filing and getting it over with.

next her and move on.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP I am so sorry you find yourself in this position, and I admire you for the way you're handling it. Even though you're understandably devastated, you're still relatively clear headed and see the situation for what it is.

She deserves to be kicked to the kerb with nothing but the clothes on her back. 

She'll have to live with what she's done on her conscience, and it will hit her - when it all goes to **** with her AP and she meets someone else, she'll have to answer the question "Why did your marriage end?" with "Because I cheated". This will have ramifications for her that she's not even aware of yet. Later, when the kids are older and find out what she did, she'll have to face them looking at her with disgust and disappointment. It didn't have to be like this.

On a general note, when did relationships, especially marriages, become so disposable? When did it become ok to treat your spouse - someone you CHOSE to commit to for life, to build a life with - with such utter contempt?


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## Buffer (Dec 17, 2019)

Strength to you and your children in these times.
As a person with a legal background do as your lawyer says. No one wants to be the cheque book. Watching the wife text her lover while you pay the bills nah stuff that!
She chose the ex, so be it on her head.
Exercise, drink water and listen to your sub conscious.
One day at a time
Buffer


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

So, follow all the advice you are receiving here. I have had a few clients that confronted the OM. Some came away with assurances that OM would not further interfere. Some came away with bloody knuckles. Your WW tbh is entitled and unrepentant. When the D filing comes her way, give some heat to the ex H. I had a client or two send a ******** lawsuit to the other party. One woman called my office and said we effectively **** blocked her. Her boyfriend was scared of losing his wealth to her STBXBH. I said that if you wanna dance you gotta pay the fiddler. She lost on all counts. Marriage done, and we scared OM so much that he never called her again.

My guess is that once you file, and the full picture suddenly makes it apparent life after marriage is not all sunshine and unicorns. I have laughed over the years at late 30s to early 50's people who made utter fools of themselves in inappropriate affairs, only to try to return to the good spouse who stood by them for decades, to find that another partner snapped up their cast offs, leaving them high and dry and complaining about the unfairness of it all.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> Before you do anything else you need to ask yourself do you want to stay in the marriage. You are married to someone who doesn’t find you attractive and sees you as a paycheck/safety net.
> 
> I would like to know how long she has been cheating (and she is cheating) and whether he’s the first guy she cheated with. I find it almost impossible to believe that your wife can have lived all these years without some passion in her life, so she’s either rewriting history or she really doesn’t love you and never has.
> If you want try and save your marriage then you’re going to have to show your wife that you’re prepared to lose it. Print out all of her texts to her boyfriend and also print out divorce papers (they don’t have to be official, it’s shock value your looking for) and hand them to her tonight and ask her to make her mind up who she wants.
> ...





Rob_1 said:


> You don't have to believe a word I say. Even though I do understand how horrible and terrifying is to know that you most break the family; but if you read all the posts in this forum or others you will eventually realize that only individuals that were strong, objective, and that even with all the fears they have, in the end they realized that they were better off out of such relationship than trying to force something that never was there to begin with. You can not force love, it's either there or not. although some people have successful reconciliations is after years of terrible pain and suffering and the relationship is never the same as it was. That is why when I see OPs with situation like yours my advice is always to get out. is for the best for all parties involved.
> 
> Even if you weren't the successful, tall, handsome Attorney that you are; anyone else will also have better chances at obtaining happiness and equilibrium with somebody they know that is into them, guarantee.





Thumos said:


> Sorry this happened to you, brother.
> 
> first read proverbs 30:20. You don’t have to be religious to absorb the wisdom of it. They knew the same things 4,000 years ago you’re finding out now.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to say I’m sorry, and that totally agree with this.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Taxman said:


> So, follow all the advice you are receiving here. I have had a few clients that confronted the OM. Some came away with assurances that OM would not further interfere. Some came away with bloody knuckles. Your WW tbh is entitled and unrepentant. When the D filing comes her way, give some heat to the ex H. I had a client or two send a ****** lawsuit to the other party. One woman called my office and said we effectively **** blocked her. Her boyfriend was scared of losing his wealth to her STBXBH. I said that if you wanna dance you gotta pay the fiddler. She lost on all counts. Marriage done, and we scared OM so much that he never called her again.
> 
> My guess is that once you file, and the full picture suddenly makes it apparent life after marriage is not all sunshine and unicorns. I have laughed over the years at late 30s to early 50's people who made utter fools of themselves in inappropriate affairs, only to try to return to the good spouse who stood by them for decades, to find that another partner snapped up their cast offs, leaving them high and dry and complaining about the unfairness of it all.


Taxman, I wish you would write a book. You have the best stories anywhere.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Good luck to you. Sorry about this. But, like you said, you have a lot of assets and won't have any problem finding a woman who really wants you, rather than someone just going through the motions.

Seems like a cut and dried case here - nothing really to save at this point. 

There may be a point where your wife begs you for forgiveness through lots of tears, realizing how stupid she is being. But really, at that point, it's too late, isn't it?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

How is it going OP?


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Thumos said:


> They knew the same things 4,000 years ago you’re finding out now.


Could it have anything to do with female nature?


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

sokillme said:


> Sounds like your wife likes the ones she can't have, like this dude. You were probably good marriage material, but now she has fallen back into her old ways.



This sums it up. Often when a woman calls a guy an AH she's actually really into the guy. Unfortunately, many husbands don't realize that they were choice number two based on a woman's needs and priorities. Especially if she's in her 30s. More husbands and future husbands need to understand this dynamic. They need to ask the question -- why is/did this woman marrying (marry) me? sometimes it's the husband who is in the fog.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

manowar said:


> Could it have anything to do with female nature?


Except adulterous men betray their faithful wives at the same levels and act in almost precisely the same way. What about all of the women out there who are faithful wives? Is that in their nature?


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

manowar said:


> More husbands and future husbands need to understand this dynamic. They need to ask the question -- why is/did this woman marrying (marry) me? sometimes it's the husband who is in the fog.


Agree with this. Marriage is not a good deal for men as it is presented in our society now. Men should control their commitment with an iron fist and focus on their own lives and passions first and foremost.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I agree, marriage for young men especially....... stupidest things they could do to ruin their future. I actually had an 8th grade girl tell me the other day that she was going to marry a rich guy and divorce him and take all his money. I don’t think she was joking.
The court system/laws now have basically set up an incentive for women to divorce after kids and take the money and run.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree, marriage for young men especially....... stupidest things they could do to ruin their future. I actually had an 8th grade girl tell me the other day that she was going to marry a rich guy and divorce him and take all his money. I don’t think she was joking.
> The court system/laws now have basically set up an incentive for women to divorce after kids and take the money and run.


This is confusing to me. Premarital assets are premarital assets, and not split in a divorce unless deliberately co- mingled during a marriage. Assets amassed during a marriage are split 50/50. So how do women _take the money and run_? ??? 

????


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

manowar said:


> This sums it up. Often when a woman calls a guy an AH she's actually really into the guy. Unfortunately, many husbands don't realize that they were choice number two based on a woman's needs and priorities. Especially if she's in her 30s. More husbands and future husbands need to understand this dynamic. They need to ask the question -- why is/did this woman marrying (marry) me? sometimes it's the husband who is in the fog.


SO TRUE. If I had a son what I wrote and what you wrote would be something I would try very hard to impress upon him. The women who spends most of her life chasing the Bad Boy is a very real danger to make a wife. In the same way a man who chases strippers would be for a husband. Are there exceptions? Maybe but it's not worth the risk. Frankly the women who chases the bad boy is the girl you have fun with, then she will chase you because you are the bad boy always unattainable. Ever notice how when the husband dumps them they start to chase them again? That is the only dynamic that seems to work with a women like that. 

Besides that there are plenty of women who are not like that. I think a lot of them get married early though. So for men it's the same dynamic women often face when they say all the good ones are taken. Women seem to understand that there is marriage material and non-marriage material. At least they talk about it and consider it. It's a part of the whole lexicon when it comes to who women pick to marry. 

Unfortunately I feel another unfortunate side effect to the modern idea that men are not capable of being emotionally thoughtful and intelligent is that we mostly teach men that the most important thing men should look for when they marry is that she is hot. The neglect of young boys emotional intelligence may actually be the single most detrimental thing to society in the 20th and 21st century. The trope that men are just horny dumb frat boys is really obscene. Men actually see themselves and celebrate that now. When they should be embarrassed.

Anyway these women make a calculated decision to marry to have kids for a short period of time, doesn't mean she is all that into these husbands though.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Thumos said:


> Except adulterous men betray their faithful wives at the same levels and act in almost precisely the same way. What about all of the women out there who are faithful wives? Is that in their nature?


It's in their nature, just like it's in those men's nature, but it has nothing to do with their genitals or whatever sex they feel they are (speaking in the terms of this post-modern age). One of the things that you must do when you are dating is try to assess an learn your partners potential nature. That is what is going to determine your success.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Livvie said:


> This is confusing to me. Premarital assets are premarital assets, and not split in a divorce unless deliberately co- mingled during a marriage. Assets amassed during a marriage are split 50/50. So how do women _take the money and run_? ???
> 
> ????


Well, if you stop and think about it, there ARE several ways in which this can potentially occur.

1. Firstly, I would think that the co-mingling of assets would actually be a very common phenomenon. People don't go into marriage expecting to be divorced. Regardless of how high the divorce rate, most people think they're going to be the exception. So, who wouldn't add their spouse to their bank account, make it a joint checking, or add the spouse to the house title. I think it would be the rule rather than the exception. That would be especially true if the spouse is intentionally setting herself/himself up to "take the money and run" like the 8th grade girl described, because that spouse would be very likely to push to mingle the assets, perhaps claiming that "you don't love me" or "you don't trust me" if there is resistance.

2. Secondly, splitting the assets amassed during the marriage 50/50 is what it is, and philosophically I overall agree with it, but in this specific instance of responding to your confusion, I think it would be obvious to see how this could be used to a golddigger's advantage. (I will use the female example here to follow the line of discussion about the 8th grade girl you were confused about.) If she marries a wealthy individual who has a successful career, perhaps making millions per year, she will get 50% of those millions during the time of the marriage even though that earning ability was established long before she ever met the guy. In other words, she partakes of that income stream and racks up those millions into her side of the ledger without really doing anything to earn them at that level. If the argument is that she "earned" them by being a wife, then was she a million times a better wife for the rich guy than she would have been to, say, a janitor husband? I mean, I would presume her efforts would be the same, whether married to a rich guy or a poor guy, so why is her effort rewarded millions of times more? I understand that in marriage the couple joins their fortunes and shares their fate, and I don't have a problem at all with that perspective. I just think it should be understood that the golddigger didn't really "earn" a greater reward on her own when married to a rich guy over a poor guy. And, more to the point of your response, the rich guy therefore presents an opportunity for the golddigging 8th grade girl in question to "take the money and run". She's running off with the 50% of the rich guy she picked over a poor guy.

3. The "take the money and run" girl may have also been thinking about potential alimony (and child support which, in the case of a rich father, likely would exceed the children's needs and partly support the ex-wife as well). There's many threads about alimony, and I personally feel that the whole concept is not only unjustified in most cases but also illogical/self contradictory; however, regardless of how you or I feel about it, it certainly might provide another opportunity to "take the money and run" for that 8th grade golddigger that sparked the question.



That's all I going to post on this "take the money and run" issue in this thread. I don't want it to divert any further from the OP's original postings. I'm just answering Livvie's question by providing examples to answer her confusion, but don't want it to become a threadjack.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

Satisfied Mind said:


> This guy lives out of state, so there's no way they could have physically cheated.


Faulty logic. As if the guy wouldn't travel (time and money) for wild sex. If you've been in an affair, or talked to a veteran male cheater, you would be aware that most cheating wives will do practically anything sexually to prove themselves and get the extra praise and validation. Plus, it is very possible he only reached out initially was because he was coming to town for another reason anyway. The way you describe your wife, she would not go as far and cold and cruel as she would without physical interactions. 

You say he contacted initially in July but you don't have a clue as to contact. He initiated and then your wife started pursuing. This is fairly common. Mixed up with all this stuff about new openness and smothering - blah, blah, blah - that happened, the smothering is bull, the new openness is just coincidence. Stuff is always going on in marriage, just because she cheated on Wednesday when it was sunny after she ate lunch doesn't mean that sunny Wednesday lunch caused the cheating. What I see is the same old usual suspect; long-term marriage, gets routine, he blew smoke up her butt, she enjoyed it, and most likely at some point he traveled to meet her. 

Getting back to he initiated 17 years later after they broke up, maybe he was going to be in town for business or pleasure, so he thought he would go fishing with your wife.

The other possibility is that your wife always had a thing for him and it never really stopped. You mention the CSA thing, which is a very strange animal. It really can go off the rails in a few directions even many years later. It would not be uncommon in my experience for a CSA victim to be attracted to not-so-nice men. In my experience, also, if a CSA victim doesn't get properly treated through therapy, those things don't get fixed. The CSA victim very frequently develops coping mechanisms to survive mentally and physically; even after the abuse ends, the coping mechanism behaviors still continue, which is unhealthy most of the time in a healthy relationship. Secrecy around CSA is a big factor many times; the victim was victimized even further by telling the truth to a trusted person, who then treated the victim even worse, thus, the coping behavior is to never tell the truth about the CSA to someone they trust.

No way someone could figure this out here, but if your wife has not received sufficient counseling for CSA, she should. And for you I would not be so sure that he hasn't traveled to be with your wife. The gaps in the phone logs is concerning and cheaters don't stay in much contact (long phone messages are nice for long distance, messaging app is better for short such as "meet me in 10 mins at the hotel) when they are seeing each other.

I know it's been a few weeks since you posted last. How is it going?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Damn! Just found this thread. I never cease to be amazed. @Satisfied Mind , I hope you blew this **** up and destroyed her fantasy world. If it was me I would buy her a ticket to where” Mr. Wonderful” resides and pack her bags and tell her not to let the door hit her in the arse on the way out.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

My only problem with the way OP handled this is that he confronted his wife before he got legal representation and made preparations for the possibility or divorce. All the more astonishing since he is an attorney himself. My advice to all who suspect a spouse of cheating is always...hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


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## Tempocontour (Nov 5, 2018)

I hope you're doing ok.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> My only problem with the way OP handled this is that he confronted his wife before he got legal representation and made preparations for the possibility or divorce. All the more astonishing since he is an attorney himself. My advice to all who suspect a spouse of cheating is always...hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


There are many different types of law, same as there are many different medical specialities.

If you would not see a doctor who specialises in knee problems if you have severe headaches, a patent lawyer or an expert in health and safety law wouldn't know that much about "family" law.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Livvie said:


> This is confusing to me. Premarital assets are premarital assets, and not split in a divorce unless deliberately co- mingled during a marriage. Assets amassed during a marriage are split 50/50. So how do women _take the money and run_? ???
> 
> ????


 so you expect an 8th grade girl to have an adult knowledge of the law?


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