# We can't teach our son's about walk-away-wives.



## MrK

That's a well kept ladies secret. I just hope the women teach their daughters. They will be marrying our son's. 

Let me start by saying I hate that term. I give credit to Oprah for starting the conversation, but it unfortunately went away when (name your celebrity) adopted a new (name your favorite African adoption nationality) baby and we moved on to other concerns. 

Plus, the name was bad. First, it implies that the wife actually left, "walked away", when the whole premise is that she left emotionally but physically stayed. Second, it implied that the wife had a choice and she DECIDED to leave the marriage. Nothing could be further from the truth. 

So enough about the walk-away wife. We men need to teach our son's about push-away-husbands. I have said MANY times: nearly 100% of walk-away-wives will say they have told their husbands until they "are blue in the face" that their behavior was inappropriate. And nearly 100% of push-away-husbands are blindsided by "I don't love you any more because of it".

I am respectfully going to ask the ladies to stay away from this thread for a few days. We men need to figure out how to deal with this ourselves. PLEASE spare us the "how can you be such an idiot?" replies for a while. You might learn something by actually listening to us for a bit. Plus, this is the men's clubhouse. It's not an unfair request.

I had (yes, HAD) an explosive, scary temper. 99+% of my waking hours I was a happy, fun loving guy that was great to be around. But every so often I would explode. Add a few minutes to absorb the lingering effects, and it was over in 5 minutes. The blink of an eye in out collective waking hours. Surely my wife and kids KNEW that was not the real me and they forgave me, right?

I would say mean things to my wife. I have NO IDEA why I would put her down. I loved her with all of my heart. It is my one flaw that causes me to truly hate myself. My eyes are tearing up as I type this. How could I DO THAT to her? Degrading your wife takes 2 seconds. Not even a rounding error for what I did in that past HOUR, let alone my collective waking hours. Surely she knows that's not me. Surely she knows I really love her with all of my heart.

What we push-aways don't understand is that our loved ones DON'T know our minds. They don't know what's in our heads. All they see is the outward negativity. They don't know that we don't mean it. But mainly what we don't realize is that they walk around all day in fear of that couple of minutes of minutes of temper. My wife knows I am going to say something mean. It is a blink of an eye to us. It is the entire world to those we abuse. They live with that fear 24-7.

Son. If you ever, even ONCE, say to yourself "that was bad, but she'll forgive me because she loves me", take that as a MASSIVE warning flag that you are in for the ride of your life if you don't change. She WILL forgive you because she loves you. But what happens when that behavior causes her to not love you any more? Then she doesn't forgive you. Then the intimacy stops. The warmth stops. Then you try to fix it and realize she hasn't loved you for a long, long time. Then you realize it's too late...

Men. Please share what you've learned about yourself once your wife left. Tell us how you pushed her away. Tell us how you could have done it differently. Tell us how you changed. Tell us how you realized the importance of REALLY listening to your wife. Let's collectively learn how to teach our children.

For the record, I didn't need to change. My wife said something that made all the pieces fit together. Made me realize that the love and intimacy I had lost years ago and was desperately in the middle of trying to reclaim was gone FOREVER. And it was MY FAULT. My DNA changed. I was not ever going to engage in the behavior that caused my world to crash. NEVER. But it was too late.

We need to fix this. We need to teach our sons about it. I don't want ANY man to go through what I went through. What I CONTINUE to go through. Especially my boys and I am going to do everything in my power to prevent it.


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## Disenchanted

I will teach my son that no matter how well he treats a woman, she will sh!t all over him if he is not confident and assertive in his relationship. If he does not understand basic human sex drive and what attracts a woman (which is far from what she will admit attracts her) he will wind up like the multitudes of other betas, standing alone in the wind wondering how the hell he let this happen to him

Having kids shouldn't mean getting neutered, but that's what happened to me and my wife "walked away" from the most devoted spineless beta there ever was.


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## tacoma

I can't possibly disagree more with the huge generalizations in the OP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy

MrK

Your story sounds pretty much identical to mine. I can relate to what you're saying.

One observation is what we say to our sons and daughters has far less impact on them then the example we set. We have live what we say.


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## samyeagar

We also need to teach our sons that unless there is abuse or adultry, that the breakup of a marriage is never one sides complete fault...no matter what the woman says.


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## whatslovegottodowithit?

Call me crazy, but why not just encourage our young men to come here and read the forums? Nothing is filtered and any naivety they may have will be shown in print full of emotion in one central place.


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## MrK

tacoma said:


> I can't possibly disagree more with the huge generalizations in the OP
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please explain.


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## SoWhat

Disenchanted said:


> I will teach my son that no matter how well he treats a woman, she will sh!t all over him if he is not confident and assertive in his relationship. If he does not understand basic human sex drive and what attracts a woman (which is far from what she will admit attracts her) he will wind up like the multitudes of other betas, standing alone in the wind wondering how the hell he let this happen to him
> 
> .


This. 
I won't even phrase it in a way specific to dealing with women, probably. Just something along the lines of: "Never, ever, ever compromise your ideals. Stay firm in your beliefs. Be a man of faith - in yourself and in something higher. Set a course in life and follow it."


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## Red Sonja

MrK said:


> We men need to teach our son's about push-away-husbands.
> 
> I am respectfully going to ask the ladies to stay away from this thread for a few days.


Great subject and one in which I have experience, alas I am a woman so let me know when I am allowed to post on this thread.


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## Disenchanted

Red Sonja said:


> let me know when I am allowed


exactly


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## Thound

So MRK, how did your marriage turn out? Are y'all still together? If so, did she go back to being affectionet?


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## bailingout

Waiting for the girls to get the green light to join in. 

No bashing from me!!!!


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## ScarletBegonias

My son will be taught lessons about the walk aways,the users,the crazies in disguise,the borderlines,the narcissists,the daddy issue gals,the golddigger crowd,the wannabe princesses,the I know I just met you but let's have a baby group,the "he's just a friend" crew,and the many other forms of rotten females.
That will be in addition to pointing out traits of the keepers


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## ScarletBegonias

oops.I'm a lady,I'll delete my comment if you want


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## richie33

I am going to teach my sons to love themselves more than they love another. That respect is not a negotiation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

My son is a 6 year old boy and at that age has a huge selfish streak. My goal is to not repress that in him one bit, but to add on, by role modeling, how to treat others respectfully, how to tolerate and not judge, yet also not compromise himself in doing so. I don't want to neuter him from his selfish strength, I want him to develop it and use it to make his life the one he wants, and to never forget his self worth and importance. And with that I hope he picks equally amazing people to surround himself with, and have the capability to recognize women of quality who are worthy of him.


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## MrK

Thound said:


> So MRK, how did your marriage turn out? Are y'all still together? If so, did she go back to being affectionet?


How did it turn out? That original post was pretty much a current description of my marriage. The classic walk-away. She's here physically. (For whatever reason. I surely don't know. I Don't expect to. Like I said: "classic" walk-away. Not big on communicating they "why" of it all). 

Gone emotionally. You can't really get affection without emotion, can you? Sex, sure. All the BJ's I want. Those are easy. But I can see how intercourse would be hard for a woman with someone they don't really like. So I'll take a well sold and executed BJ over poorly sold and executed intercourse, but I digress. 

We're not here to talk about me. We're here to break the cycle of whatever it is that brought us here. We're here to talk about our kids. My "push-away" was abuse. Emotional, but abuse nonetheless. How is it that I'm 50+ years old and I just figured out you don't treat people you love that way? What broke in me and when did it break? I wasn't raised that way. I need to make sure it doesn't happen to my kids.

And I need to teach my daughter also. I can't expect anyone else to. I'm going to have to wing that as well, but coming in with less experience. 

OK ladies. I'm encouraged that so many seem to want to help. Thanks for waiting. Please, add.


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## Thound

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

To the OP sorry you had such a bad experience. 

But when I blew up, it was largely because she set me off. A bad trait, sure. But she would press my buttons, just because she felt like I needed to show restraint. Sound fair? Didn't think so. 

I guess if you were doing these outbursts just to do it then sure - you are an *******. Whoa back off. I am capable of being an ass too. Some of us though, don't respect ourselves enough to begin with. Some of us have just been used. Because we were good providers. Others because we were beta thinking that they would appreciate it, some are a very unhealthy mix of co-dependence, bi-polar, yada yada yada. 

My point is, if either person is showing these traits. You need to have the gumption to end it right then or there. Even if it means divorcing.

I'm not sure how i'll approach the topic with my son. He isn't even 2. So I have time to think about it all before he asks me questions. Not much, but a little bit of time.


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## Disenchanted

I used to get mad at my wife, had huge resentments towards her. This was a result of my "nice guy syndrome", always trying to please her and being upset when she wasn't pleased. Some call it co-dependence. 

Fearing women causes more resentment in a man than anything and is tantamount to spousal abuse (on the man's side).


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## WEBELONG2GETHER

*But I can see how intercourse would be hard for a woman with someone they don't really like. *

Mr. K I felt until just last week the same way your wife felt. Heck I had even started an EA over it how much I hated my husband and disconnected emotionally from him. Well last week I said Im tired of this I forgive my husband for all of his previous outburst and bad behavior. today is a new day and we will go on from here. he wanted sex, I really did not, but said im going in with my emotions in tow. WOW!!! We have been having great, and I mean great connected sex. My kitty has not stopped purring yet.

More to come:smthumbup:


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## Thound

WEBELONG2GETHER said:


> *But I can see how intercourse would be hard for a woman with someone they don't really like. *
> 
> Mr. K I felt until just last week the same way your wife felt. Heck I had even started an EA over it how much I hated my husband and disconnected emotionally from him. Well last week I said Im tired of this I forgive my husband for all of his previous outburst and bad behavior. today is a new day and we will go on from here. he wanted sex, I really did not, but said im going in with my emotions in tow. WOW!!! We have been having great, and I mean great connected sex. My kitty has not stopped purring yet.
> 
> More to come:smthumbup:


That is awesome. Your post gave me hope. Thanks!!!


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## Hopefull363

Wish my husband would understand his part in the marriage problems. Tried so hard for so long to help him understand how important affection is to me. But like you said you can't get affection without emotion. I guess he likes things the way it is. Which makes me feel unimportant. Switches are starting to turn off in me that I fear he'll never be able to turn back on. I know he'll regret it once I do walk away but by then it will be to late for me. I know when I do walk away I will have no regrets because I tried my hardest.


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## Anon Pink

MrK, I don't understand why your wife is still with you? If the love is gone and she says it will never come back, what the hell is she still doing there? Punishing you? That she still offers BJ seems... This isn't making sense at all to me. If a woman has disengaged, shut down and turned off all love for her husband, why would she bother to give him a BJ? If she's emotionally checked out, never to return, why is she still there? Is she waiting for you to get it right so she can reengage? There must be something left if she is still seeing to your comfort and still living in the home, sleeping in your bed...


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## 3Xnocharm

MrK, thank you for that insightful OP. I dont know whether I would be considered a WAW or not, but I definitely went through two push-away husbands. To hear someone admit to their part in this kind of relationship dynamic is quite cathartic. It amazes me how someone with whom you share your life can disregard you, everything you say, and everything you feel. And like you said, just be mean. Then have the gall to show utter shock when you finally work up the nerve to tell them that you are done. So, thank you for that post.


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## Red Sonja

I taught my child what is IMO a fundamental truth in life … that *uncontrolled and/or disrespectful emotional responses directed at others will drive people away from you*. To that end, my daughter (works for sons too) was taught the following in order to learn to regulate emotional responses:

1. Your emotions are reasonable (all of them) and they are always reasonable for you, however you can never assume that they are reasonable to others.

2. Whenever your feelings are causing distress you must learn to identify them and what is causing them. In my home we used the question “are you mad, glad, sad or scared?” Once this question was answered, I would help my daughter figure out why she felt that way and what she wanted to do about it.

3. It is always *unacceptable *to attempt to force your emotions onto others OR assign responsibility for your emotions onto others.

4. It is always *acceptable *to share/express your feelings with others when done in a respectful manner, i.e. no yelling, name-calling, blaming, etc.

5. When you lose control and cannot express your emotions in a respectful manner then you need to recognize it and find another neutral outlet. For example, my daughter (when she was young) had a “nerf bat” that she used to “beat on things” in her room when she was out-of-control angry and afterwards when she was calmer we would talk about why she was so upset.

I started using these techniques when she was very young and they worked very well. Your mileage may vary.


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## Wiserforit

MrK said:


> What we push-aways don't understand is that our loved ones DON'T know our minds. They don't know what's in our heads. All they see is the outward negativity.


I had trouble following the OP but I take it this is the core insight for abusive husbands?

We know actions speak louder than words. But this is an insight on actions speaking louder than... thoughts? 

I don't have sympathy for men who are abusive to women or children. But you ask how we are to teach our children. By our actions. 

There are some basics like complimenting mommy in front of the children. Thanking her for all she does. When she calls, you drop what you are doing and put your jet boots on to get there quick. It goes without saying you never raise your voice or put her down. You hug her a lot and tell her you love her and have the kids do the same thing. 

This isn't rocket science. You abuse your wife and she leaves you. I'm not buying into the 99% "Mr. Wonderful" routine. If you spend one second of your life pulling the trigger on a gun to her head then you are a murderer. You can't minimize your abusive actions. Beating her one time will leave her in fear of that for the rest of her life. 


I am troubled by your concluding remarks: you don't want any man to go through what you went through. If you said you don't want any woman to go through what you put your wife through then that would demonstrate you actually learned to look at things from the perspective of the people you harmed. That's the whole thing with abusive people. It's all about me.


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## inarut

Lon said:


> My son is a 6 year old boy and at that age has a huge selfish streak. My goal is to not repress that in him one bit, but to add on, by role modeling, how to treat others respectfully, *how to tolerate and not judge, yet also not compromise himself in doing so. * I don't want to neuter him from his selfish strength, I want him to develop it and use it to make his life the one he wants, and to never forget his self worth and importance. And with that I hope he picks equally amazing people to surround himself with, and have the capability to recognize women of quality who are worthy of him.


That is the key!

Be careful though in that balance you are trying to strike with your son....being left unbridled may be hard to reel back in when needed.


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## inarut

Anon Pink said:


> MrK, I don't understand why your wife is still with you? If the love is gone and she says it will never come back, what the hell is she still doing there? Punishing you? That she still offers BJ seems... This isn't making sense at all to me. If a woman has disengaged, shut down and turned off all love for her husband, why would she bother to give him a BJ? If she's emotionally checked out, never to return, why is she still there? Is she waiting for you to get it right so she can reengage? There must be something left if she is still seeing to your comfort and still living in the home, sleeping in your bed...


Yes, she hasnt walked away yet. You can still fix it and be an example to your children. Thats how you teach them, by example. 

She may be closing to you but she hasnt walked away yet and still seems to be making some effort. What are you going to do?


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## JCD

I am a bit diffident about this.

A huge +1 for the 'men cause problems in a marriage and don't listen enough sometimes'. It's true.

AND....

Well, reading Red Sonja, sometimes your emotions are NOT valid! I've had my feelings go south because of an action by my spouse. We've had a rational conversation and it's a LOGICAL misunderstanding. It should just go away, right? Um...no. The mad is still there.

And we teach our daughters that they are 'feeling' creatures. That their feelings need to constantly be catered to if a man cares a whit for her. That any hurt is a direct attack on her womanhood or validity.

So...yes! Teach the boys to listen! 

Also...teach your DAUGHTERS about the psychology of men! That dad CAN have a bad episode and lash out...and it's like a flash of lighting. There and gone. How to identify it, how to see the warning signs, how to possibly defuse it...and also how to roll with the punches.

I keep thinking about Joan in Mad Men. Men said and did awful things for her. But she enforced her boundaries, deflected the worst, accepted SINCERE regret, and accepted restitution for wrongs done.

Accept the WHOLE of the man! Help him aspire to be better, but humans are crooked timber and the occasional bit of unpleasantness is part of any relationship. So help BOTH genders have reasonable expectations from a relationship. Not the gooey 'Hollywood' flawless 'true love'.


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## Red Sonja

JCD said:


> Well, reading Red Sonja, sometimes your emotions are NOT valid! I've had my feelings go south because of an action by my spouse. We've had a rational conversation and it's a LOGICAL misunderstanding. It should just go away, right? Um...no. The mad is still there.
> 
> And we teach our daughters that they are 'feeling' creatures. That their feelings need to constantly be catered to if a man cares a whit for her. That any hurt is a direct attack on her womanhood or validity.


If this is what you concluded from my post then you misunderstood. What I described is a method to teach a *child *to understand, regulate and be responsible for *their own *emotions … boy or girl.


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## MrK

Hopefull363 said:


> Tried so hard for so long to help him understand how important affection is to me....I know when I do walk away I will have no regrets because I tried my hardest.


And when you leave, he will be fixed. That's how I changed. I realized my wife didn't love me (that DNA change I mentioned). But it's too late. She's gone. You're gone. When you leave, please, for him and his next wife, tell him EXACTLY why you are leaving and why you can't come back. I don't know any other way to do it, unfortunately, but talking doesn't work most of the time.



Anon Pink said:


> MrK, I don't understand why your wife is still with you? If the love is gone and she says it will never come back, what the hell is she still doing there? Punishing you? That she still offers BJ seems... This isn't making sense at all to me.


She's in her mid 40's, overweight, moderate to low career prospects, a little lazy and VERY Concerned about people knowing she had a failed marriage. The occasional BJ is a small price to pay for that security. Plus, we have three teen kids. Like me, she doesn't want to break up the family.



coffee4me said:


> I'll tell my son and daughter more when they are adults, about how I felt numb those last years. About the years I lived with my xhusband and tried to figure it out, make it work. About how it felt to finally give in and give up and know without a shadow of a doubt. The love was never coming back it was time to go. The baggage was too heavy the hurts too deep. It was both our faults but* I will always reflect and wonder if there was a point in which we could have turned it around or was it destined to end this way.*


That bold part. That's what I'm trying to do here. So far all I've got is "crush him". That's what my wife did to me. That's how I got fixed. I would like to find out there is another way. Because it can't be a bluff. There was something in my revelation that made me realize on the spot that I wasn't going to get her back. THAT'S the part that fixed me. The finality of it. But then it's too late and we're back to the walk-away cycle.



3Xnocharm said:


> Then have the gall to show utter shock when you finally work up the nerve to tell them that you are done.


That misses the mark. It implies that my emotions were contrived when I found out. I realize that it is pretty hard to understand how we men are blindsided by this when our wives tell us until they are "blue in the face". If you downplay or miss the importance of that "utter shock", we all lose. Us men being blindsided and utterly shocked that this happened is the key to fixing it. It implies two things:

1 - WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE CHECKING OUT. Why would you be leaving me if I am husband of the year 99% of the time? We don;t get it.

2 - Being blindsided can fix us. It happened to me. Unfortunately it's all I've got. That's why I started this thread. "Shock him once it's too late" isn't working. It's actually PART OF the cycle.



Wiserforit said:


> I am troubled by your concluding remarks: you don't want any man to go through what you went through. If you said you don't want any woman to go through what you put your wife through then that would demonstrate you actually learned to look at things from the perspective of the people you harmed. *That's the whole thing with abusive people. It's all about me.*


Thanks for the hate. I guess I deserved it. But maybe you missed this:



MrK said:


> I would say mean things to my wife. I have NO IDEA why I would put her down. I loved her with all of my heart. It is my one flaw that causes me to truly hate myself. My eyes are tearing up as I type this. How could I DO THAT to her? Degrading your wife takes 2 seconds. Not even a rounding error for what I did in that past HOUR, let alone my collective waking hours. Surely she knows that's not me. Surely she knows I really love her with all of my heart.


I ruined my wife's life. She doesn't get a do-over. I live with that EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE. 



Wiserforit said:


> That's the whole thing with abusive people. It's all about me.


You say that like I'm some kind of monster. Like I deserve what I got. Maybe I am and maybe I do. But you know what? How many men are like me? How many men have pushed their wives away? How many men have explosive tempers they can't control? How many men don;t understand that biting sense of humor hurts? I'll tell you: A LOT, judging by the responses on this board. Sure, go ahead and hate me. I deserve it. But it's not just me. I'm your father. Your brother. Your cousin, friend, work mate. I'm glad you're better than me (It's not really too high a bar). No doubt you win. But you're not helping fix this situation with YOUR anger.



inarut said:


> ...she hasnt walked away yet. You can still fix it and be an example to your children. Thats how you teach them, by example.


She has very much walked away. Once she PHYSICALLY leaves, it's something different. Hence the confusion some people have with that term.


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## Hopefull363

Mr. K
He will know why I leave. I stay now because that last switch hasn't turned off yet. I don't find it comforting that he'll be fixed for his next wife. The loneliness I had to feel for years shouldn't benefit someone else. If only he would truly listen before it's too late.


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## Hopefull363

Teach your sons and daughters to truly listen to their spouse and whether they understand their feelings or not to validate them.


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## TiggyBlue

JCD said:


> I am a bit diffident about this.
> 
> A huge +1 for the 'men cause problems in a marriage and don't listen enough sometimes'. It's true.
> 
> AND....
> 
> Well, reading Red Sonja, sometimes your emotions are NOT valid! I've had my feelings go south because of an action by my spouse. We've had a rational conversation and it's a LOGICAL misunderstanding. It should just go away, right? Um...no. The mad is still there.
> 
> And we teach our daughters that they are 'feeling' creatures. That their feelings need to constantly be catered to if a man cares a whit for her. That any hurt is a direct attack on her womanhood or validity.
> 
> So...yes! Teach the boys to listen!
> 
> Also...teach your DAUGHTERS about the psychology of men! That dad CAN have a bad episode and lash out...and it's like a flash of lighting. There and gone. How to identify it, how to see the warning signs, how to possibly defuse it...and also how to roll with the punches.


I agree with that, but also teach daughters if he manages not to have these angry outbursts in front of his friends/boss then he can manage not to put you through them to and no one deserves to be periodically lashed at (pms/bad episode isn't a excuse).


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## LovesHerMan

This reminds me of the Don McLean song, "Empty Chairs":

Don McLean - Empty Chairs. - YouTube

Relationships uncover all of our weaknesses, and it is very painful to look at ourselves and see all of our faults.  Marriage has taught me about forgiveness, both for myself and for my husband's failings. 

Mr. K., I pray that you and your wife can explore how to forgive and to heal your marriage. Your wife has built a wall to protect herself, and it will not be easy for her to trust you again. It is truly a divine gift to learn how to see and be vulnerable to another person. 

I wish that our children could learn from our hardships, but unfortunately we humans always learn the hard way, through experience, because that is the only way that we understand, in our bones, what life is really like.


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## bailingout

MrK

I just want you to know how deeply moved I am by you. By your pain, your growth, your courage, your regret and by so many other things.

You inflicted on the one you love, and suffered yourself, an unimaginable pain located in the core of the human being. I know you now realize the price that was paid...not only by you, but also by her as well. I am so sorry. 

I truly hope and pray that someday, somehow, your wife will be able to allow herself to love you again. I know you don't think it's possible, but one can never be 100% sure of what the future holds.

What you have experinced is such an ugly path, and instead of laying blame, you chose to own it. Probably one of the hardest things you will ever own in your life and in doing so, you have the ability to try to prevent it from repeating to your own children. And that, "the ability to try to prevent it from repeating" is a blessing. 

I, like Hopeful363, am almost a WAW emotionally, I only have a string left and it's stretching by the hour. 

I wish I had you in my life to tell my "push away" what the price will be. 

Prayers to you MrK and your future.


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## samyeagar

As someone who had a walk away wife, I know full well that the self blame is very easy. Now that I have had time to step away and really look at the relationship objectively, I realize that I was a walk away husband probably before she was a walk away wife, I just didn't have the spine to man up and leave.

All too often in these situations, very little consideration is given to the possibility that the walk away wife contributed significantly to the failure of the marriage. That perhaps the reason their husband was an insensitive unfeeling jerk who didn't listen to his wife telling him until she was blue in the face was at least in part response to her not bothering to listen to him.


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## bailingout

samyeagar said:


> I realize that I was a walk away husband probably before she was a walk away wife, I just didn't have the spine to man up and leave.


I often wonder if my H is doing this also. A part of me wants to believe he isn't, but then again, a part of me is convinced that this is the case and he is actually pushing me to end it so he can blame it on me. Of course, he denies it.



samyeagar said:


> All too often in these situations, very little consideration is given to the possibility that the walk away wife contributed significantly to the failure of the marriage. That perhaps the reason their husband was an insensitive unfeeling jerk who didn't listen to his wife telling him until she was blue in the face was at least in part response to her not bothering to listen to him.


:iagree: that both people are responsible. But usually, only 1 realizes this.


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## diwali123

Originally Posted by samyeagar:
I realize that I was a walk away husband probably before she was a walk away wife, I just didn't have the spine to man up and leave.

This. I guess the definition of a WAW is that the man is blind sided, right? If that is the case I don't think I qualify. I don't know how much more I could have done to let him know how unhappy I was, how unacceptable his behavior was, what I needed from him. It's almost funny to me that so many leave out of the blue and I tried everything and fought for our family. But he just wouldn't do anything. He gave lip service but the reality is he walked away mentally and emotionally years before. I think that he knew he didn't love me and so for some bizarre reason he decided to get me to have a baby with him. I still don't know why. 
I wish he would have just told me it was over years earlier but instead he took away everything piece by piece. I am glad that I have my daughter. Just wish I didn't have to go through the emotional torture. 

Question for you guys: my h's ex was a WAW and a cheater. His son I believe has been brainwashed into thinking that somehow the divorce was dad's fault since dad was fighting with mom. (about her GNO and disappearances and refusal to tell him her whereabouts.) I don't know how you discuss that in a healthy manner. It seems like there's no way to talk about it without him funding out that his mom is a *****. Or am I wrong?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

He's 14, the fighting was when he was 10, divorce at age 11. And she is a whôre.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bailingout

diwali123 said:


> I wish he would have just told me it was over years earlier but instead he took away everything piece by piece. I am glad that I have my daughter. Just wish I didn't have to go through the emotional torture. /
> 
> 
> 
> I just wish mine would tell me if he really feels like this.
Click to expand...


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## diwali123

He insisted to the end that he loooooved me so much. Ended up in a new LTR three months later with my matron of honor. They have been together five years. I was hard to get over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

I know where I went wrong, and know that I am going to be a fantastic husband the next time around. It is important to take responsibility for your own behavior and failures, but the most important lesson I learned was to STOP taking responsibility for hers.


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## chillymorn

theres no one size fit all. relationships are living breathing things and if not cared for properly they DIE!

I disagree we can teach our kids about relationships.

1st by setting a good example. which means if your with someone who it unreasonable then its time to divorce EVEN if you have children 
2nd by explaining things (age appropiate ofcourse)and yes if they were cheating scum when they become older they should be told!
3rd by instilling the confidence to pull the first two off.
4th by teaching that no one come first over you!I don't mean that you be selfish I mean that you keep your value as a human being by not letting some one take advantage of you. when you know your right stand your ground no matter what the out come. 
5th self medicated with alcohol....oops forget that one!


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## samyeagar

bailingout said:


> diwali123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish he would have just told me it was over years earlier but instead he took away everything piece by piece. I am glad that I have my daughter. Just wish I didn't have to go through the emotional torture.
> 
> 
> 
> I just wish mine would tell me if he really feels like this.
Click to expand...

After reading some of your other posts, I think you may have some reason to be concerned.


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## Wiserforit

MrK said:


> Thanks for the hate.


See how you continue to play the victim? Exaggerate straight talk, reasonable talk, into being a hate-victim. 

And you are not thanking me. This is manipulative say-the-opposite-of-what-you-mean attacking. 




> I ruined my wife's life. She doesn't get a do-over. I live with that EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE.


Right. Relentless focus on your daily pain. The only time you talked about your wife in this entire post was how much pain you live with daily from having abused her. 



> You say that like I'm some kind of monster.


More playing the victim. 



> Like I deserve what I got. Maybe I am and maybe I do. But you know what? How many men are like me?


What lesson is this right here for the children? The existence of other abusive men minimizes your own abuse? That _maybe_ wives should leave abusive men?




> How many men don;t understand that biting sense of humor hurts?


Minimizing abuse again. Sense of humor? Humor is funny to the person _hearing it_. Sure, it's funny to the abuser when making fun of others. That is not a sense of humor. 



> Sure, go ahead and hate me.


Count how many times you are playing the hate-victim in one post. 



> I'm glad you're better than me (It's not really too high a bar). No doubt you win. But you're not helping fix this situation with YOUR anger.


Surprise surprise - the hate victim yet again. 

Abusive people try to put others on the defensive just like this. If you are honest about fixing yourself and teaching the children then you'll acknowledge an abuser playing the victim is wrong. Putting people on the defensive for pointing out the logical, reasonable, and justifiable act of leaving an abusive husband is wrong. 

I count five times in this post of you playing the hate-victim. As compared with one time mentioning the wife, and in that single instance it was in the context of your own pain and suffering over it. 

You asked how we are to teach our children and I am doing that for you right here. You should be talking about your wife and how your actions affected her, and not uttering one word about you being a victim. You should be telling abusive husbands that they do not deserve their wives. 

This is the core of abusers: only me, only my emotions, all about me, me, me - instead of empathy for their victim. You are not the victim. Who was it lashing out in hate? Not me - that was you. Because you are not thinking about the victim, only yourself and your own emotions. 

Can you turn your message into a focus on empathy for the victims instead of the abusers?


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## MrK

Wiserforit said:


> Can you turn your message into a focus on empathy for the victims instead of the abusers?


I'm not sure you're getting my point. Or maybe I'm not getting yours. I am sorry I am looking at it from the abusers end. But we all know abusers are bad, right? We all know we don't deserve empathy for our pain, right? We all know abusers don't have a say in what's right and wrong. That's old news. How would I have changed anything by coming on here and saying "I was an abuser and I was bad". We get that. So it's settled and we move on? Not sure what you are trying to say to me.

Anyhow, this is not about abuse. This is about whatever it was you did that pushed your wife away and how you are going to try NOT to pass that trait onto your kids. I'm sorry you were married to an abuser. I'm sorry you have trouble with the way I am handling my issue. I'm not sure how much more you want to say, but can you take it elsewhere? I'm sorry you don't feel I'm taking responsibility for what I've done. I'm sorry you will have NONE OF any of us hinting that there might be actual people behind our problems.

Stop. I get it. Thanks for your opinion.


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## MrK

I just read your post again. Will you please leave me alone?


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## geek down

I told my wife I loved her..She told me she hated me..He family was about appearances...and she learned from two of the worst people to have children..

She thought, as she was told by her mom...that husbands will always take you back...."that's what they are there for."

Thats what we husbands are...thats what we are there for...

You can't fix a relationship when one person has THAT mentality


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## Starstarfish

OP, you are still putting your wife down, your sum total about her is that she's old, overweight, is lazy, and can't get a good job. 

If that's in the end what you truly feel about her, and how you summarize her to other people, what was the "DNA change" about not putting her down? Not putting her down to her face?


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## MrK

You guys win. Like the saying goes, once an abuser...

I guess I needed to hear it some time.


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## SpinDaddy

MaritimeGuy said:


> MrK
> . . . . One observation is what we say to our sons and daughters has far less impact on them then the example we set. We have live what we say.


WORD. Amen Brother Maritime.

And to that let me share advice I received when my son was just born:

“Choose your words and your actions carefully. They are your children’s true inheritance.”


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## BWifey123

Im a lady, and I want to say THANK YOU for writing this post. Such truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude

So, to summarise, you believe we men should be held accountable for our actions when our wives walk away? And to ensure that our sons are taught this lesson? Well, isn't that what most people teach in regards to responsibility anyway? Isn't it the standard regardless?

=/


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## MrK

Thanks for the support, Trenton, but in the years since my wife "walked away" I have tried to open myself up to her, only to have to mourn the loss of my marriage all over again when she makes it obvious she doesn't want me. She won't just tell me, of course (true walk-aways never do). I don't have the mental strength to do it again. 

Plus, I have learned that my life is easier to go to bed not expecting anything from her. Forget sex, but just talk to me, maybe hold me, tell me you love me. When I expect that, and it doesn't happen, it hurts. It hurts a lot.

Sometimes I think "this is crazy, I am ignoring and pushing away the only woman I will ever have". But the thought of initiating any kind of love with her is too hard. Knowing she would rather I didn't. 

No, I'm done. My goal now is to teach my kids from my mistakes. I'll try to stop this cycle with their parents. Try to teach them what it's like to be good husbands and wife's.


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## squid1035

This is, by far, the most brutally honest thread I've read on TAM. Not just from you, MrK, but from every response as well.

I think I'm on the verge of having a WAW. I've definitely had the wake up call. And I've definitely fumbled through the 1st few attempts at trying to salvage the relationship. And I get what you mean about your DNA changing and knowing that your behavior had to change just so that you couldn't ever go back to feeling how you felt when you realized you lost her forever. I felt that just knowing that I MIGHT lose her. 

I don't have an abusive temper, but perhaps my biting sarcasm isn't taken with as many grains of salt as they were before. I've definitely pushed away.

Now I'm trying to figure out if space is what she needs to help bring her back. I know that trying to control the chaos has an opposite effect. So I'm kind of being forced to sit back and watch the unraveling from afar. Because trying to micromanage her only makes her consider "walking away" the more desirable choice. She hasn't checked out yet, but she's definitely on the fence.


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## ReformedHubby

As far as what I'll teach my sons it will be to not sweat the small stuff in marriage. I've seen men nit pick their wives to death. Nothing is ever good enough. The chicken is too dry. The house isn't perfect etc., etc. For a woman this is like death by a thousand paper cuts. I only gripe about big issues. Life is too short to try to make everything "perfect" all the time.


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## Created2Write

I have to agree with Wiserforit. You sound more focused on your own disappointment and pain than your wife's. I'm sure your wife made mistakes in your marriage to. No one is perfect. But you won't teach your children anything if you can't own your mistakes without playing a victim card.


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## squid1035

I would teach my two sons to never under-appreciate the small gestures. Like handing you your towel when you get out of the shower. Or planning a date night because she knows you're swamped with work. Don't overlook the tiny things. They add up to a lot.


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## MrK

Zombie thread!!!


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## nuclearnightmare

MrK said:


> That's a well kept ladies secret. I just hope the women teach their daughters. They will be marrying our son's.
> 
> Let me start by saying I hate that term. I give credit to Oprah for starting the conversation, but it unfortunately went away when (name your celebrity) adopted a new (name your favorite African adoption nationality) baby and we moved on to other concerns.
> 
> Plus, the name was bad. First, it implies that the wife actually left, "walked away", when the whole premise is that she left emotionally but physically stayed. Second, it implied that the wife had a choice and she DECIDED to leave the marriage. Nothing could be further from the truth.
> 
> So enough about the walk-away wife. We men need to teach our son's about push-away-husbands. I have said MANY times: nearly 100% of walk-away-wives will say they have told their husbands until they "are blue in the face" that their behavior was inappropriate. And nearly 100% of push-away-husbands are blindsided by "I don't love you any more because of it".
> 
> I am respectfully going to ask the ladies to stay away from this thread for a few days. We men need to figure out how to deal with this ourselves. PLEASE spare us the "how can you be such an idiot?" replies for a while. You might learn something by actually listening to us for a bit. Plus, this is the men's clubhouse. It's not an unfair request.
> 
> I had (yes, HAD) an explosive, scary temper. 99+% of my waking hours I was a happy, fun loving guy that was great to be around. But every so often I would explode. Add a few minutes to absorb the lingering effects, and it was over in 5 minutes. The blink of an eye in out collective waking hours. Surely my wife and kids KNEW that was not the real me and they forgave me, right?
> 
> I would say mean things to my wife. I have NO IDEA why I would put her down. I loved her with all of my heart. It is my one flaw that causes me to truly hate myself. My eyes are tearing up as I type this. How could I DO THAT to her? Degrading your wife takes 2 seconds. Not even a rounding error for what I did in that past HOUR, let alone my collective waking hours. Surely she knows that's not me. Surely she knows I really love her with all of my heart.
> 
> What we push-aways don't understand is that our loved ones DON'T know our minds. They don't know what's in our heads. All they see is the outward negativity. They don't know that we don't mean it. But mainly what we don't realize is that they walk around all day in fear of that couple of minutes of minutes of temper. My wife knows I am going to say something mean. It is a blink of an eye to us. It is the entire world to those we abuse. They live with that fear 24-7.
> 
> Son. If you ever, even ONCE, say to yourself "that was bad, but she'll forgive me because she loves me", take that as a MASSIVE warning flag that you are in for the ride of your life if you don't change. She WILL forgive you because she loves you. But what happens when that behavior causes her to not love you any more? Then she doesn't forgive you. Then the intimacy stops. The warmth stops. Then you try to fix it and realize she hasn't loved you for a long, long time. Then you realize it's too late...
> 
> Men. Please share what you've learned about yourself once your wife left. Tell us how you pushed her away. Tell us how you could have done it differently. Tell us how you changed. Tell us how you realized the importance of REALLY listening to your wife. Let's collectively learn how to teach our children.
> 
> For the record, I didn't need to change. My wife said something that made all the pieces fit together. Made me realize that the love and intimacy I had lost years ago and was desperately in the middle of trying to reclaim was gone FOREVER. And it was MY FAULT. My DNA changed. I was not ever going to engage in the behavior that caused my world to crash. NEVER. But it was too late.
> 
> We need to fix this. We need to teach our sons about it. I don't want ANY man to go through what I went through. What I CONTINUE to go through. Especially my boys and I am going to do everything in my power to prevent it.



OP:

what kinds of things have you said to your wife over the years (that you didn't mean)? what are we talking about here. what are the 5 worst things you ever said to her.......5 worst of your putdowns? that will give us an idea.....


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## sidney2718

This has been a brutally honest thread. I have just now read through the entire thread (up to 8 PM 22 November). It is a painful thing to do.

The take-away message I've gotten is to learn to communicate. That involves learning how to listen (I think it no secret that men and women often listen in different ways) and learning how to talk without zingers, sarcasm, and the dozens of other ways of verbally hurting a person.

But we have to go further than that in a marriage. We have to learn each other's moods, triggers, and sacred notions and how to handle those. And we have to learn not to put spouces down in public, help when the pressure is too great, and basically make a marriage a working partnership.

But in the end the most important thing is communication. It won't stop people from walking away or turning off, but it will help.


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## nuclearnightmare

My impression as I read it was it is a confession of an emotionally abusive husband.


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## southbound

I agree that it would be great to get some training about marriage before taking the plunge, but who really does? Sure, some of us may have had a sex talk, but I think that was to help us avoid problems at an early age, not so much to teach us about sexuality.

I agree that there is no one size fits all, but when I was getting married in my early 20s, I had never heard of a walk-away-wife. I didn't realize that if I didn't watch a few ps and qs, she might fall out of love and want a divorce. I didn't realize sexuality was so different between men and women. I was dumb enough to think sexual desire was just a natural thing and that everybody liked sex, especially if they cared enough about each other to want to get married.

I sure wish i could have gotten some training on that as a youngster.


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## CRexsWife

I find this an intriguing thread. I don't have much of anything to add, except I get the perspective of the WAW. Where do you think the problem stems from in the first place? From the WAW side of things, it appears that the LBH is very arrogant, to think that there's nothing negative they could do to drive the W off. Or that they think so little of the W that they can treat them poorly and they won't leave because no one else would want them. Even the concept of "she knows I love her" sounds like it's supposed to be so precious, so valuable, that it somehow offsets the crappy treatment that contradicts it, again reflecting that she is somehow unworthy of love and the LBH was a saint for doing so.

This sort of attitude actually works to propel the WAW out the door, as she tries desperately to regain her self-image and self-worth, sometimes in the arms of another that makes her feel like she's priceless.

It all seems so obvious. What lesson could possibly be missing?


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## Thound

MrK said:


> Zombie thread!!!


And yet very relevant. I still don't know for sure what I did wrong.


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## Joylush

I very much enjoyed your post. My heart goes out to you. I am a WAW. You get to a point where you just know it's never going to be the way you think it should be. The intimacy can't be revived because of the fear. 
I was a high strung, fly off the handle prone to raging wife who lived for years with what I'd call a passive aggressive husband. We clearly brought out the worst in each other as opposed to the best.
I can look back with empathy and see the many times things were misinterpreted due to immaturity, lack of communication skills, etc..it's hard to expect one to accurately express their needs when they themselves don't even recognize what those needs are.

You never said what kinds of mean things you said. I know that although I was irrational I never (not that I'm consciously aware of) deliberately called names or used sensitive information to degrade or embarrass my spouse). While he was far more emotionally reserved when he finally did show emotion it was so pent up that it was cruel and crushing. There are only so many times you can forgive that or justify it.
When I left I felt certain he'd be relieved as his ball and chain would no longer be there to make him miserable. Instead he was shocked, insisted he'd do anything, that he loved me. I think he really thinks he did but I don't know that our understanding of the term is the same.

When I refused to come back on his timetable I became the most disgusting pathetic delusional manipulative piece of **** that ever existed. We are well off. I gave him everything he asked for. Made no claims to his pension, alimony, etc...he didn't even have to hire an attorney. I may regret forgoing my fair share one day but I felt I got enough and he could no longer ever say I was "all about the money'.

Anyway, point being why do you stay with a woman who fit whatever reason can't or won't forgive you or acknowledge the problems or her possible role in them? You have one life. You deserve to have someone in it who adores you and loves you for who you really are. 
Being alone really is better than living with someone out of obligation or fear of the unknown.


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## squid1035

Joylush said:


> I am a WAW. You get to a point where you just know it's never going to be the way you think it should be. The intimacy can't be revived because of the fear.
> 
> When I left I felt certain he'd be relieved as his ball and chain would no longer be there to make him miserable. Instead he was shocked, insisted he'd do anything, that he loved me. I think he really thinks he did but I don't know that our understanding of the term is the same.
> 
> Anyway, point being why do you stay with a woman who fit whatever reason can't or won't forgive you or acknowledge the problems or her possible role in them? You have one life. You deserve to have someone in it who adores you and loves you for who you really are.
> Being alone really is better than living with someone out of obligation or fear of the unknown.


Do you ever think WAW's can come back? I'm not so sure if my wife is a WAW just yet. But she's definitely got one foot out the door. We just had a separation and she's accepted me back. But I'm worried if the condition is reversible or it's just some kind of very slippery slope that you (the wife) can't ever truly come back from.


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## missthelove2013

what is a "push away" husband anyway??
My buddies wife would probably call him that, not in your words, but same meaning...he is an evil bastard because he started playing hockey again ONE night a week, and playing drums in a garage band with me every other sunday for a few hours now that their youngest is out of high school...he is a real push away husband for ignoring her so...

And she does everything in her power to woo him back, like hide his hockey skates or text him relentlessly when when the band is here, or shows up and calls him a **** head in front of the band because she wants him to take her shopping...


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## vellocet

Disenchanted said:


> I will teach my son that no matter how well he treats a woman, she will sh!t all over him if he is not confident and assertive in his relationship. If he does not understand basic human sex drive and what attracts a woman (which is far from what she will admit attracts her) he will wind up like the multitudes of other betas


Wow, I didn't know guys like Brad Pitt and George Clooney were considered betas and don't know how to attract a woman.

If they had problems with cheating in the past, then we are all f'd.

Sorry, but even those men that give their women that attention and know how to push their buttons get cheated on too.

I will teach my sons how to treat a woman and treat them as they expect to be treated.

I will also talk to them about if a woman ever cheats on them, don't sit around blubbering like a fool all over them. Show them the door. And if they do take them back and they cheat again, then shame on my sons.


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