# Virgin at marriage and missing out on sex



## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

I had great success with getting my wife back on track in our marriage and now I'm back for round 2. 

When I met my wife, I was a virgin. She had been with 12 other men before me sexually. We had a long talk last night after dinner/movie and our communication has been much more fluid. As part of my NUTs--I will not avoid confrontation--we were talking about sex and I asked her about the 12 guys before me. We have been together 5 years now (married for 4 of them) and it was a big deal when I asked her how many men she's been with before me many years ago.

I found out probably 6 months ago that she had a one night stand in her history when we were at a friends house playing a board game where you guess how many of your friends would say yes/no to questions etc (you know the type). I didn't ask her anything about it until last night.

Frankly, I truly don't care that she's been with 12 other men sexually and I really don't care that she had a one night stand once upon a time. What I do care about is getting to know my wife better. I asked her who the other 12 guys were last night and she was resistant, asking me why I care. I told her I don't care--I want to know more about my wife. I asked her why she cared so much and wasn't open to talking about it and she said she doesn't like to think about other men she's had sex with. Long story short, she finally gave the details and laid it out. She had a long term boyfriend for roughly 2 years and lost her virginity at 18 to him (I didn't even know when she lost her virginity). After that, between 20-23 before we met she had sex with 11 other guys, 4 of them she can't remember (or doesn't want to tell me). The one night stand was after homecoming when she was in college.

Anyways, she's been with 13 guys including me. I've been with exactly 1--my current wife. She then flipped the question on me and asked me how many women I've made out with. I asked her what qualifies as "making out" and she said french kissing/tongue. My number, including my wife, is 4. My first girlfriend in 7th grade, a woman who turned out to be married when I was 19 (that I already told her about), my wife, and her friend we'll call G (I'll get to this later). She was surprised and said don't even ask me how many she made out with because she used to be very kissy and there is no way she could remember them all. Again, none of this bothered me.

My wife had your typical college experience minus living in the door where she went out, partied, got drunk, kissed boys, had sex, etc. My college experience was working fulltime and going to school fulltime putting in 16 hours/day nearly every day. I made a lot of sacrifices in my life and as a result, I am very well off financially and career-wise. However, I never got the experience of dating a bunch of women, getting drunk, partying, etc. I basically decided I wanted to settle down and get married and found my wife on the first try.

As a result of all this, I told her I felt like I missed out on a lot of experiences in life due to the sacrifices I made. Previous to all this, we were talking about fantasies and what turns us on. She couldn't tell me anything that turns her on and she said she didn't have any fantasies. Again, not sure if she was just scared to tell me or really didn't have any, but I opened up and told her about mine. I guess you could say I have a vivid imagination and I told her all sorts of things I wanted to do--sex on the beach, using food, etc. None of it involved any threesomes or anything. 

When it comes to sex, my wife doesn't like it messy--she said sex on the beach will never happen because there is sand, she doesn't like food included because it's messy, etc. She's also a germaphobe and we had a hotel room at the Embassy Suites one time. We started having sex and I laid her down on the ottoman in our room and the first thing she did was talk about how people put their feet on the damn ottoman and it wasn't clean.

Due to all this, when the wife and I do have sex, it's not anything wild and crazy--it's your standard fare and always in our bed--never on the couch, kitchen table/counter, car, etc. I told her I feel like I missed out on what all the normal guys my age were doing, partying, drinking, having sex with girls, etc. My wife has had sex with 3x more men than women I've made out with. She asked what I wanted to do about it so I wouldn't feel sad about missing out on everything. She asked if I wanted to have sex with other women and I told her no, but I would like to have sex with other women with her in a threesome. She said that she wouldn't be comfortable with that and would get jealous. I told her I wouldn't have to have sex with the other woman--I'd be happy just watching her make love with another woman. She said that is just a way to lead up to me having sex with another woman and wouldn't be okay with it.

So we started working backwards. She said if I wanted to make out with other women. I told her I didn't know if that would do anything or not. She said she'd get jealous if it did happen and felt it would be detrimental to our relationship. I told her that I'd never do anything behind her back and we have a high level of trust there. I then asked her about going to the strip club. I've never been to the strip club here in town in the 5+ years I've lived here and in that timeframe my wife has been a small handful of times for bachelorette parties etc (female strippers). I asked her what she thought of me getting a lap dance from a stripper if we ever went to the strip club--she said she'd be okay with it and she'd bring her sanitizer to clean my face after a stripper rubs her "warty ass" in my face. She also said she'd have to be really drunk to even goto the strip club, which is how she's gone previous times. I asked her why and she said it was embarrassing. I personally don't think it's embarrassing at all, but I never get embarrassed about anything and I'm comfortable in pretty much any situation.

When she said this bit about being drunk, a light turned on and I realized that she was doing all this drinking as a response to anxiety. She has anxiety going to the strip club. She is not drinking the next 3 months per my request/demand and she asked me if it would be okay if she drank at networking events because it was awkward when everyone else would have something to drink and she didn't. She has this anxiety and things start turning into self-fulfilling prophecies for her and then she has to drink.

Which brings me back to my number of 4. I have french kissed her friend G before. The company I work for has a beachfront condo and I get a couple weeks each year at the beach. Last summer, her friend G stayed with us one night as a half-way point on her drive to Florida to see family. Long story short, we ended up drinking too much and decided to go on the beach. The clothes started coming off and we went skinny dipping. G was very respectful of both me and my wife. I had a hard on the whole time and apologized to G. She said it was no problem and was able to keep herself entertained running around on the beach and told my wife to go take care of your husband. My wife and I tried to have sex on the beach for about 30 seconds before she called it off. We ended up laying on the beach, all 3 of us, before going back into the condo. Once in the condo, we had to shower off the sand/salt and all 3 of us ended up in the shower together. My wife and G ended up making out, sucking each other's nipples, etc--they were really into each other. This shower was literally no larger than 3x3 and it's cramped when 1 person is in it, much less 3. So it was pretty tight and it was skin on skin. I basically stood there with one arm around each girl taking it all in as a spectator--no touching or anything. After a certain period of time, my wife turned to me and started kissing me passionately. After this, G started kissing me passionately and that's when **** hit the fan. My wife started breaking down crying and then everything pretty much ended. She was hurt that I kissed her friend. I still don't get it as it is a ridiculous double standard--she's allowed to suck her nipples and play with her, but I can't even kiss her?

After that, my wife did her usually anxiety deal about how weird it would being around G and how embarrassed she is etc. In short, nothing has changed between me, my wife, and G and we're actually closer friends with G than we we were a year ago. She's actually dogsitting for us in a couple weeks.

With all this said, I still feel like I missed out on "sleeping around" that every other 20-something male has done. I love my wife and don't want to do anything she's not comfortable with, but I feel like she's being somewhat irrational. She has gotten to have her cake and eat it to and I've gone without. I feel like if I got her permission to kiss another woman and it destroyed our marriage, we never really had a strong relationship to start with. My wife wants to "find a solution" to how I can not feel like I missed out, but adding another woman to the picture is not an option. Truthfully, one of my fantasies would be sharing my wife with G again under better circumstances--penetrating G or not doesn't even matter to me. As I mentioned, G has become a closer friend over the past year and based on all my interaction etc with her, I'm 95% sure she's interested in round 2.

Anyways, am I crazy for feeling like I missed out? Is my wife being unreasonable/irrational about everything? I know there are dangers of introducing others to a marriage, but I feel like our commitment to each other is so strong that it's really a non-issue (I was able to control myself for 20+ years before we got married), but my wife's anxiety turns into self-fulfilling prophecies and ends up overwhelming her. Her friend G, for example, is a very physically attractive and confident woman. She has the same body type as my wife (lots of curves), but even if I were single I'd have no interest in her emotionally for many reasons. My wife has been with more than one woman before in the past, so it's not like she doesn't find women attractive.

Is there something I can do to not feel like I missed out? I understand my choices have consequences and I've made my bed and have to lie in it. I have zero interest in having sex with another woman or any other arrangement without my wife physically being involved to share whatever sexual experiences I have.

Any feedback/advice is appreciated.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

No 3some. You'll regret it. She doesn't want to do it, so drop the subject.


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

Your post is confusing to me because you are stating two opposites.



> I have zero interest in having sex with another woman or any other arrangement without my wife physically being involved to share whatever sexual experiences I have.


Then why are you asking for a threesome? A threesome is just that - sex with another woman.

You say that the trust in your relationship is good. You will ruin it if you continue doing what you are doing. You act like your wife being with more partners than you in her PAST (emphasize PAST here) makes it okay for you to press a threesome. You cannot hold your wife accountable because of actions she has made in the past. 

Obviously it hurt your wife with your friend G, what makes you think a threesome would even work? And why would you want to put your wife through that?

The best thing you can do for your marriage is forget about the threesome and stop concentrating so much on the past and what you "missed out on" (I don't think sleeping around with multiple women is as easy or common as you are dreaming it is) and concentrate on what you have now, and what you have in the future. 

If you are not satisfied sexually with your wife you need to take that up with her and not supplement because that's probably one of the worst things you can do to a marriage/relationship, as for many women in destroys trust and boundaries.


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## misticli (Oct 28, 2011)

Woa, long post and what it really boils down to is you never got to be a party guy and sleep with other women so you want to do that now, but you want your wife to participate. The reason your wife freaked out about the kiss is she is clearly not willing to share you. You have to be extremely confident in your relationship and each other in order to even consider a threesome, and I still believe nine times out of ten it hurts a relationship.

I would focus your efforts on getting you wife to be more open and adventuress in bed. Just because soeone has had sex with 12 people does not mean they are any good at it, many men are wham bam thank you mam. Warming you wife up with a romantic evening with dinner, rose petals a bath and candlelight, and the fine art of oral s*x would be more advised. Either that or you need to get out of this marriage because your mentality is the young party guy, and that does not mesh with a marriage.

oh and not to mention that friend who clearly is still interested in a threesome with you would be out the door. Leaving that hurtful reminder for your wife is cruel, not to mention you are pushing your wife away even still considering this.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You made your decision long ago to focus on school and work, and no to party it up and date lots of women. You can't penalize your wife now for your decision then. You wife has made it clear to you how she feels. If you continue to push, you risk damaging your relationship.

I do know how you feel, to a certain extent. My current GF is my 4th partner (at age 44). I don't know her exact number, but I suspect I'm at about 1/10th of her total. We did have a foursome that became more of a threesome recently, and I figured everything would be fine. But after (that same night), she basically cut off our conversation and said she needed to have a shower. That was a first for us; we've had the most incredible communication from the start. We ended up having it out at 4 in the morning, and in the end, I think we were stronger because of it. But it could have easily gone the other way too.

And we're just seeing each other. My point is that even with mature partners who both are excited about multiple partners, feelings and emotions can't wreak havoc on a relationship. It's just not worth the risk, especially to a marriage. Get individual counseling if you need to work through things.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

PBear said:


> You made your decision long ago to focus on school and work, and no to party it up and date lots of women. You can't penalize your wife now for your decision then. You wife has made it clear to you how she feels. If you continue to push, you risk damaging your relationship.
> 
> I do know how you feel, to a certain extent. My current GF is my 4th partner (at age 44). I don't know her exact number, but I suspect I'm at about 1/10th of her total. We did have a foursome that became more of a threesome recently, and I figured everything would be fine. But after (that same night), she basically cut off our conversation and said she needed to have a shower. That was a first for us; we've had the most incredible communication from the start. We ended up having it out at 4 in the morning, and in the end, I think we were stronger because of it. But it could have easily gone the other way too.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. It's interesting what all the women had to say versus the one guy--I feel like you're the only one that understands where I'm coming from here.

And threesome does not mean having sex with a 3rd person, as least not penetration. There are many other things you can do without penetration which I'm sure you're all aware of.

My mentality is not that of a young party guy. My wife is the one who is the partyer and has some issues with alcohol (I posted on this previously but didn't mention it here). 

The whole argument that "you're not missing out on anything" is kind of ridiculous. It's like someone telling you that they've been skydiving before and it's nothing special or they've been to the moon before and it's nothing special. No one else can make that call for you but yourself. I feel like I missed out because I did and to an extent, I regret that I didn't see/date/fool around with more women before getting hitched. The fact that my wife did is a non-issue. Even if she were a virgin when we got married I'd feel the same way. I'm a guy and my instinct is to spread my seed and continue my genetic lineage. I've controlled myself and made a commitment in marriage, which is a commitment because it does goes against instincts. I'm not the scum of the earth (which I feel some of you are implying) for wanting any of this.

I understand I'm a guy and my viewpoint is different than women. My wife asked me what I'd say if she wanted a threesome with me and another guy and I told her I'd be fine with it as long as I got to pick the guy. She dismissed me as if I were joking. Truth is, I think it would be incredibly hot to see her with another man, but obviously she doesn't share that view with me. I think if I were with a dozen women and she were with a dozen guys before we got married, it would be different. I think that she's more insecure about sex due to the fact I was a virgin and feels I'm going to judge her since I'm the supposed "prude" in the relationship. Nothing could be further from the truth. We've been married 4 years now and I'm just now finding out who she was with previous to me (it turns out I've met a handful of them and she's still friends with several of them, which negates the claim for me that friends such as G are out the door after sexual experiences).

I know there are many guys who didn't sleep around in their 20s/college years, but the majority of men have been with multiple women sexually before 30. I wasn't, any many of my friends weren't by choice, but we were always the outcasts and weird ones because of this.

The bottom line is I feel like I missed out, because I did. My wife doesn't want me to feel this way, but doesn't want to share me with anyone. The question is, what's a guy to do? We both want to find a solution, but don't know what it is. Being more adventurous in the bedroom might work, which I'm more than willing to do but she acts insecure about "experimenting" and going beyond the standard fare (unless she's drunk, which I hate). Actually, it is very rare that we have sex at all unless I initiate things, but we have been having sex more frequently lately. Thanks for the comments/feedback and I hope this helps clarify where I'm coming from with all this.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Well, you'll have to decide what's more important to you then. Living it up without your wife or staying with her, because she has surely said that she is not willing to do this. To push that agenda, just pushes her away and doesn't do anything to help solidify intimacy between you. Even now, you have started a little wedge and introduced more insecurity into your relationship because of stating this desire well before your wife is of the maturity level to be able to handle it.

You know part of marriage is about growing together, and the natural tug/pull, ebb/flow that happens in life. You may think you have missed out on all these 'other' things - but there are SO many things that you and your wife can explore and can grow into together that don't involve another person(s). After being married 23 years, I can tell you that that level of intimacy far surpasses any kind of exploration done prior to marriage.

If your wife is shy and insecure, then take the lead in the sexual arena. It doesn't matter if you were a virgin when you got married - you've been married for a while now. Too many people just don't seem to want to try and work at it with their partner.

Here's some really good articles based upon the book by David Schnark called "Intimacy and Desire" that explains the way people develop sexually, and what helps them develop.

People Have Sex Within The Limits of Their Development | Psychology Today

Sex and Self-Development Between The Sheets | Psychology Today

Developing a Self Greatly Shapes Your Sexual Desire | Psychology Today

Decoding The Logic of Sexual Relationships | Psychology Today

You know, for all your wife's previous partners, she doesn't sound like she is very sexually mature, or even emotionally mature. And you, for coming in to marriage as a virgin seem much more mature than her.

I would recommend that you two really concentrate on each other and your marriage and try to strengthen that and help each other grow as individuals and as a couple - just the TWO of you. March forward together and put the past behind you. Focus your sexual energies on her and her only - see where it takes you. 

_“Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you
only hoped for.” ~ Epicurus_

Best wishes.


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Well, you'll have to decide what's more important to you then. Living it up without your wife or staying with her, because she has surely said that she is not willing to do this. To push that agenda, just pushes her away and doesn't do anything to help solidify intimacy between you. Even now, you have started a little wedge and introduced more insecurity into your relationship because of stating this desire well before your wife is of the maturity level to be able to handle it.
> 
> You know part of marriage is about growing together, and the natural tug/pull, ebb/flow that happens in life. You may think you have missed out on all these 'other' things - but there are SO many things that you and your wife can explore and can grow into together that don't involve another person(s). After being married 23 years, I can tell you that that level of intimacy far surpasses any kind of exploration done prior to marriage.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. I agree with you that I seem to be more mature at this point. I guess that is part of what drags on me as well as I'm her rock and she isn't so much for me since I've more "advanced" than her when it comes to a lot of things (business, emotional maturity, etc.).


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Since she seems completely against it pushing the issue is going to drive a wedge between you 2. Maybe instead of bringing up a 3some you could try to work on different positions or places that might give you some excitement/fulfillment? Like if you are always doing it in the bed try the kitchen table or bathroom counter if you have an suv fold down those back seats (even if you start it in the garage so she doesn't feel someone will catch you).

I have been with my H since I was 16 he was the first and only guy i have had a sexually relationship with and i don't feel like i missed out on anything. He did have 2 other sexual partners prior to myself but he has actually expressed regret at not waiting until he found someone he truly loved.

We try to keep the excitement going we use toys, try many different positions, and places.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

You have asked your wife to stop drinking for 3 months, so I'm guessing that her drinking is an issue. If she has an anxiety disorder, she should work with her doctor and try one of the many meds that have proved so helpful to people with anxiety issues. These meds (SSIDs) are much better than using alcohol to deal with anxiety (and that is a form of self medicating). People will point out that there may be some side effects, and maybe even some related to an ability to experience orgasm. But if the chose is that or getting drunk and making really bad decisions, then it seems pretty clear that the meds are better. Plus the sexual side effects can be dealt with--where as once someone is drunk, you pretty much have to ride it out. 

Also, what I see is that you are using the fact that your wife has a past as a "bargaining chip." That is totally unfair. You made choses for you, not for her. Her past has NOTHING to do with what you want now--quit bringing it up. You say that you don't care about her past, but you DO, b/c you think it means she owes you something now. She doesn't. Quit expecting her to help you make up what you CHOSE to forego. That may leave you resentful--but you need to deal with that and not blame her. Would you be treating her differently or asking for same things if she, too had been a virgin? Would you be more understanding of her hesitancy? I'm guessing you would. Part of you thinks she must be a bit of a **** (and maybe you aren't conscious of that, but your post makes it very clear that you do think that), and so it should be "no big deal" for her to give you what you want. Is that the relationship you want to have? She's grown and learned and isn't comfortable with the behaviors you want, so leave her alone about it and make decisions about whether the marriage or "making up for lost time" is more important to you.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

You knew your wife's sexual history, you married her anyways and now you want to "even it out"? This isn't having cake and eating it too. She wasn't with you when she did what she did and btw, how DARE YOU judge her for that. 
You are a fool and you will lose your wife in the process. No woman wants her sexual history trotted out in front of her and used as ammo for what was known up front. Keep pushing it and she will find someone else and rightfully so. 
If you feel you missed out on meaningless and random sex, then divorce your wife and have at it. You will find that you will regret your decision in spades. The woman who had multiple previous partners who loves you, desires you and needs only you is the one you should fight for but I suspect you will not learn your lesson until she is long and gone.
Enjoy the stripper glitter and the desperation of random hookups. Your ex will have a man in her life that loves her for who she is, past or not.


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Are you even reading what I'm writing? I'm not using anything as bargaining chip and I'm not talking about "evening it out." I'm not judging her for anything and I'm not using her past as ammo for anything. The point isn't she's been with a 100 guys or even just 1 guy in her past. The point is I've only been with 1 girl and I feel like I missed out--this has nothing to do with her history. If I were a single guy that wasn't even married the premise would remain the same. How am I supposed to call someone my soulmate if they feel they can't talk to me about anything? Also, I'm not blaming her for anything here. I simply communicated to her how I feel.

I feel like the women replying to this just want to hate me for being honest and communicative about how I feel. Women always say they want a man to be honest and communicative, but when they actually do it, they can't handle it. I haven't done anything but talk about how I feel with my wife and I've made a commitment to her to not do anything that makes her feel uncomfortable and/or behind her back.

Roll up your jump to conclusions mat and actually read what I wrote objectively before jumping on your high horse and accusing me of being evil. Geez...


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

wafer said:


> Are you even reading what I'm writing? I'm not using anything as bargaining chip and I'm not talking about "evening it out." I'm not judging her for anything and I'm not using her past as ammo for anything. The point isn't she's been with a 100 guys or even just 1 guy in her past. The point is I've only been with 1 girl and I feel like I missed out--this has nothing to do with her history. If I were a single guy that wasn't even married the premise would remain the same. How am I supposed to call someone my soulmate if they feel they can't talk to me about anything? Also, I'm not blaming her for anything here. I simply communicated to her how I feel.
> 
> I feel like the women replying to this just want to hate me for being honest and communicative about how I feel. Women always say they want a man to be honest and communicative, but when they actually do it, they can't handle it. I haven't done anything but talk about how I feel with my wife and I've made a commitment to her to not do anything that makes her feel uncomfortable and/or behind her back.
> 
> Roll up your jump to conclusions mat and actually read what I wrote objectively before jumping on your high horse and accusing me of being evil. Geez...


You flat out wrote that you wanted to experience what she did and that you feel she had her cake and ate it too. Before you, mind you and you feel she is unreasonable for denying you sexual experiences with other women now....your wife. The woman you pledged your life and sexuality to. 
If you feel that women are ganging up on you, then that is your issue, not ours. We are speaking from experience and telling you that nothing and I mean nothing good can come from going down this path.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

wafer said:


> I had great success with getting my wife back on track in our marriage and now I'm back for round 2.
> 
> When I met my wife, I was a virgin. She had been with 12 other men before me sexually. We had a long talk last night after dinner/movie and our communication has been much more fluid. As part of my NUTs--I will not avoid confrontation--we were talking about sex and I asked her about the 12 guys before me. We have been together 5 years now (married for 4 of them) and it was a big deal when I asked her how many men she's been with before me many years ago. Why did you ask her how many men she was with? What purpose does that information serve? She is with you now, so who cares?
> 
> ...


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm a guy, middle aged, and I had quite a few partners before my wife. She had none before me. While I understand your feelings, she has made it pretty obvious that she is uncomfortable with what you are asking her to do. I would honestly say that the vast majority of women I slept with did not view it like men do, nor like people do in the media suggest. The moment she meets the man who can be her husband, some pretty fundamental attitude changes occur. It sounds like your wife is telling you that she cannot think of a threesome (even without penetration) even remotely like you do, as a way of expanding your sexual boundaries. At least now.

For a woman who has expressed her stance to offer making out with another woman suggests that she is being faced with something that she could easlily turn around as being perilously close to coercion if she decides that she has had enough. To be honest, I'd suggest that the goal for the time being has to be in exploring sexual options together. Take your time. Already, she knows of your interests. If she opens up to the possibility, only an accepting, non-pressuring approach will get her there, in my opinion.


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Thank you Halien for your comment. 

FirstYearDown--thank you also. To respond to some of your notes, I have been with her 5 years now and this is the first time I've ever asked her about how many men she's been with in detail. Previous to that, all I knew was a number. Like I said, I've been with her 5 years now and didn't even know when she lost her virginity, much less to who. If I really cared, I would have asked years ago.

Call me naive, but I expect my wife to give full disclosure on who she is, what she's done, etc. My wife called me drunk a couple months ago at 4am from a wedding afterparty and refused to tell me where she was--should I have just respected her privacy? I know this is completely different, but the bottom line is that we're a team and we're supposed to trust each other unconditionally and know everything about each other. I've told her my deepest and darkest secrets, even the ones I felt bad about--such as making out with the married woman and many other very deep personal things I've dealt with including a suicide attempt when I was younger.

I'm only 27 years old, so I don't think I'm having a mid-life crisis  Wife is 28.

"This is a very common and understandable response. It is not your wife's fault that you did not play the field more before marriage and it is not fair to expect her to accomodate your fantasy for this reason." -- This is part of what I was looking for. I don't think my feelings of missing out are unreasonable.

I'm not insecure about her being with more men than I've been with women. The whole stripper thing was just an example moving backwards from the whole "sex with another woman" thing because she has offered to take me to the strip club before simply because I haven't gone to the one locally (I have been no more than 5x to strip clubs in other places).

The whole alcohol thing is not me taking advantage of her. She quit her job ~1 year ago and now has her own business (planning weddings), which has spun her drinking out of control. Prior to this when everything happened with G there was no drinking issue to speak of. It was her idea to invite G and she was the one that broke out the alcohol, so don't paint me as the bad guy as taking advantage of her/the situation when everything was 100% her idea. I didn't touch or do anything until G kissed me (I didn't kiss her). The whole thing with G is that my wife more than pushed the limits and did a whole lot of things with G that "compromised our vows," but I was the bad guy because G kissed me and that hurt her feelings. It's a double-standard. My wife never told me anything about this making her uncomfortable until it happened. Again, is it unreasonable for me to think it's okay for G to kiss me after my wife is done making out with her? I'm not saying I'm innocent because it takes 2 to tango, but under the circumstances I don't feel I was out of line.

G is my wife's friend--not mine. My wife is not simply an object for my amusement. My wife chose to continue her friendship with G and thus are closer than they were a year ago. How am I supposed to be the bad guy for this again?

Any reference/comparison between my past and her past was not meant to be used against her, but just to give her a frame of reference. As a result, she understands where I'm coming from with how I feel and that's all I can ask of her. I know all of this makes me sound like a "grade A jackass", but I am taking responsibility for how I feel and asking what I can do. I don't blame my wife for anything when it comes to my past or lack thereof. I am more than willing to take responsibility for everything, but I just don't want to feel like I missed out, which is the crux of the issue. A big part of that I think is what you commented on about not having a wife adventurous in bed that doesn't like to get messy etc. The links provided earlier about sex being the leftovers really resonated with me and I hope to improve our sex life using this knowledge.

Therealbrighteyes--I never said I felt she was being unreasonable, all I said is I felt I was being reasonable in the way I feel. Just because I'm reasonable doesn't mean she's unreasonable.


I really do appreciate all the feedback, even though I'm defending/refuting much of it. You are all asking the questions I should be asking myself but don't know to ask.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Wafer - my wife is my one and only lover as well. She had 4 partners before me. I had 6 "make-out partners" (including her). We've had similar discussions about me missing out. I was fairly shy in my teens, met my wife at 21, and stayed faithful to her. I just turned 40.

I had a ton of fun in college, but very little of it involved the bedroom. Made out with 2-3 girls, got to 3rd base with one of them. Yes, I still do fantasize about being with other women sexually, but guess what? So do most men, dude. My friends who had other partners before their wives don't have their libidos shut down because they had more sex in their younger years.

I understand your feelings, but you can't keep dwelling on them. If you can't get past it, see a counselor. 

Regarding G, you need to drop this, fast. Your W now knows that you desire her friend. This is bad news and will not be good for your marriage. If your W wants to stay friends with her, fine, but you stay out of it. When your W and G hang out, go see your guy friends, or stay home. It's clearly too dangerous for you and G to be around each other. Don't push this issue if you want to stay married. See a counselor, find a sex therapist that can teach your W to be more adventurous with you (and not others), something.

As far as your W's sex habits go - my theory is that she is a bit ashamed of her past, and this is why she doesn't like to talk about it and may also contribute to her needing to be clean. She feels dirty when it comes to sex. Then you throw a make out session with a same-sex friend on top. She's likely a bit messed up sexually and needs help also.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Hmmmmmmmm,

Wafer, congradulations on being all you can be.working 16 hr days going through school setting your self up to be a sucessfull person in life is just fantastic.

you should hold your head up high and enjoy your sucess and life.

I was the typical party guy always had a nice looking girl to take home.can't even remember them all.more sex with more woman than I care to admitt.(I was always respectfull no matter what)

would trade it in a heart beat to have relised back then how important it is to be responsible and work hard and do your best!

you didn't miss anything thats important. so what if your wife had sex with more people than you she probly regretts it now that she has you and how it makes you feel. 

put that feeling behind you and continue to gently pull your wife out to explore more fun in the bed room.


I have 2 sons and I preach to them that their first priority is getting themselves an education and established BEFORE marriage. if they meet someone who is pushing them into marriage and they won't wait until they have there plan(whaterer that my entail) for starting life then let them move on. theres plenty of fish in the ocean.

hope they turn out like you.


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## Legionkid (Mar 1, 2012)

wafer said:


> Which brings me back to my number of 4.
> 
> Is there something I can do to not feel like I missed out?


Four? .. sorry dude. I made out with more girls than that in one night... often... at just normal parties and social occasions it was sometimes 6 or 7. But don't take that as bragging... I was a virgin until 21.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes--you have 2 choices. One is to get a divorce and go out and play around--at 27, many guys are still doing that. If your wife won't stop drinking, you may be headed in that direction, anyway. (And yeah, if she calls you drunk at 4 am and won't say where she is--you have a *big* concern and every right to know what the heck is going on). 

The other choice is to "grow up." I don't mean that in a snotty way--I mean, take time to think about what you have, where you want to be in the future, and--especially-focus on the here and now. I suspect you are pretty unhappy with the here and now, though, and that is why you are focusing on the past, to avoid dealing with the present. You say that you aren't using the past against her--but you are, because you are the one bringing it up and trying to get her to understand that she *can't* understand how you feel, because "she has a past." The thing is, even if she did not have a past, you might still be feeling like you missed out, even if she didn't feel that way, and you would handle it differently. 

Look at where you are now, today. Are you happy? If not, what can you do to change things--to change the present, and perhaps the future, in ways you will be both happy with and PROUD of. Those are the things to focus on, not something you cannot change.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

wafer said:


> And threesome does not mean having sex with a 3rd person, as least not penetration. There are many other things you can do without penetration which I'm sure you're all aware of.


Sure it does. Its still all sexual. Doesn't matter that its not actually penetration.



wafer said:


> The whole argument that "you're not missing out on anything" is kind of ridiculous. It's like someone telling you that they've been skydiving before and it's nothing special or they've been to the moon before and it's nothing special. No one else can make that call for you but yourself. I feel like I missed out because I did and to an extent, I regret that I didn't see/date/fool around with more women before getting hitched. The fact that my wife did is a non-issue. Even if she were a virgin when we got married I'd feel the same way. I'm a guy and my instinct is to spread my seed and continue my genetic lineage. I've controlled myself and made a commitment in marriage, which is a commitment because it does goes against instincts. I'm not the scum of the earth (which I feel some of you are implying) for wanting any of this.


You're not scum of the earth, you're average guy who needs ego-stroking. I think most guys still get a desire for other women from time to time... more intensely if there is something missing in the relationship. Seducing a woman and getting her into your bed is an amazing high. To be honest though, the sex isn't necessarily any better... it just massages your ego to get another notch on the bedpost so to speak, which a lot of us want as much as women like to be told they're beautiful. But don't get this idea that sex with other women is necessarily better. It's pretty much the same. The only thing you really get sexually from new women that you don't get from your wife is the rush of new conquest and a little bit of nerves. It amps up the excitement, but honestly the sex is largely the same. Really, I'd say sex with someone you're connected to and know well is better. If its about sex itself, you really aren't missing anything. In my experience most women have pretty tame fantasies when expressed, if they have any at all, and the ones that have a lively fantasies tend to be *really* lively. It can be pandora's box. Its all good until she starts talking about strap-ons (which regularly surveys as a top-3 female fantasy... being the "male").

I really doubt your wife is insecure about the 12 previous guys. That's not terribly high. Consider how many women you'd have been with if you could have them practically at will. Even though you say you're not, I feel like you're insecure about them and there's probably a desire to even up the "score". I have a hard time relating to wanting to know about your wife's previous sexual encounters. Screw that.

In terms of solutions, sorry, but you'll always feel like you missed something. Deep down, its probably not about the sex with your wife... you just want more conquests. A lot of guys can probably relate to that. I'm 33 and I've been with 22 women and I can still relate. Its all ego though.

My advice: watch less porn.


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## Legionkid (Mar 1, 2012)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> S.
> 
> In terms of solutions, sorry, but you'll always feel like you missed something. Deep down, its probably not about the sex with your wife... you just want more conquests. A lot of guys can probably relate to that. I'm 33 and I've been with 22 women and I can still relate. Its all ego though.
> 
> My advice: watch less porn.


Definitely. And to be honest, now that you are married, it is something to let go. There is no way at this point to really make up some kind of "score". You can't recreate the carefree days of youth and the target rich environment. It is past. You either did it back then or you didn't, and live with the result.

Every guy deals with this and ends up putting it into perspective and into the past where it belongs. Trying to "change it" later in life, will only screw things up. 

On another note, how did you kep count at 22? I started losing count in the mid teens and eventually couldn't figure out how many exactly. If I hadn't been waiting for a certain girfriend until 20, it would have been beyond a hundred (and one or two STDs I'm sure). Keeping track gets confusing. Did you keep a ledger or something?


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Legionkid said:


> On another note, how did you kep count at 22? I started losing count in the mid teens and eventually couldn't figure out how many exactly. If I hadn't been waiting for a certain girfriend until 20, it would have been beyond a hundred (and one or two STDs I'm sure). Keeping track gets confusing. Did you keep a ledger or something?


Nah, no ledger... and I do forget someone every now and then when I try to count. Easy to remember the relationships, harder to remember the one-nighters. I have to think of them in sequence. Kinda feels ****ty to forget someone.

I picked up chlamydia in the process though; thankfully cured by taking a pill a few days. Could have been a lot worse.


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