# 4 years of marriage, no sex, different values, should I break up?



## akcroy

[Hi, I'm considering separation leading to divorce and my mind is a minefield right now. Could you please read on and share your feedback? Sorry it's a long post, but 5 mins of your time could really save my life! Update: Italicizing 'key points' here and in responses since I can't cover everything in one post, hope you don't mind.]

We're both from India (now living in Vancouver). My wife of 4 yrs and I are a celibate couple, although not officially so and not by mutual choice. In other words, she's clearly not sexually interested in me. On top, she clearly displays alienating behavior - for instance, she's never interested in calling up anybody from my family or her own, even on festivals and special occasions. If you're anybody leaving a message on her phone, nine out of ten times she won't bother calling you back (unless you're from her workplace). And once on her birthday, I traveled all across the city to get her a cake, which she didn't even touch in the end because perhaps one-twelfth of it got squashed on the way. 

By default family is important and at least not disposable in our culture. Yet when my parents (I'm their only surviving child) were visiting us after three years, her coldness towards them was way too apparent. When I confronted her about it, she argued that she "couldn't generate feelings for people" she didn't care about. (Sub-question: correct me if I'm wrong here, but_ shouldn't one be polite and warm towards one's in-laws in any culture?_)

I almost left her quite a few times recently, citing all the things that are wrong about our marriage. We ended up having sex for the first when I told her I wanted a divorce. 

To make matters worse, she's really loving and caring towards me, while still retaining said emotionally and sexually alienating behavior. She's also never cheated on me or anything similar. Which is why I can't really bring myself to break up with her.

Before, I had tried cuddling, buying her lingerie, discussing fantasies, doing pretty much anything I could to woo her in bed. But she was always tired or stressed out over work, had a headache, needed space or was having her period. On the rare random nights when she was a little horny and was making advances herself, the best I could get was some kissing and fondling-licking. The last BJ I got from her (after lots of begging) was in 2009.

In the past I had also tried to discuss our sexual miscommunication several times, even wanting to get into therapy, but she just didn't want to talk about it. Even bringing up our lack of physical chemistry was taboo and created nasty fights. Now that our marriage is on the rocks, she's at least accommodating towards such discussions. She points out that I can't seem to create the mood she needs for sex. She's open to therapy.

But I seem to be the one who has to take the initiative in every case. And I've lost my patience. 

Frankly I'm unable and unwilling to reciprocate her advances. I've been disappointed on way too many occasions that started off great and then ended in me feeling ignored and lonely while I jerked off in the bathroom. I've lived too long with a smoking hot wife who turns heads everywhere but didn't give a damn about my male organ for nearly four years. Most of all, I feel cheap and disgusted living with the fact that the only time she's had sex with me was on the night I threatened to break up with her.

My question is, _do you think it's right of me to feel that way? Am I being selfish when she's finally at least open to communication? Or are we really incompatible and wasting each other's time in life?_

Please consider both aspects of my problem - emotional/value-centric and sexual - while responding. Thank you.


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## akcroy

First of all, thanks for responding. I have tried all that, and I always buy her gifts and take her out for dinner. I make mental notes about things she says she'd like to have, and later surprise her by buying them for her. Even now.

I am confident I know her well as a person; in bed she never gave me a chance to know her. Look, what hurts more than her not having sex with me is that she _never_ showed any signs of wanting to. I'm no ugly person, and I was always fantasizing about her! Now when she wants to, it feels like a compromise on her part. I feel cheated.

_If sex without trust and love is violence, then not having sex in the presence of trust and love must be too._

I don't think she knows me at all; neither does she try hard enough to. I _hate_ horror movies, but watched so many of them with her just to keep her company. For four years, she couldn't even stand the thought of sharing the remote. She's never sat through anything I like watching..

Her favorite color is yellow. She's not much of a reader, but likes cooking magazines. I get them for her regularly.



Pandakiss said:


> if she is open to finally talking about sex, keep trying to talk. what does she like?? do you make her happy?? do you know how??
> 
> do you even know her?? does she even know you?? start dateing. if she dosent know you well enough, she will not have trust in you. without trust there can be no love. without trust and love sex is violence.
> 
> what are her fav foods? books?? movies??
> dont post another reply telling me what she does [work] that is not who she is
> 
> just date. open up to her. no pressure. encourage her to open up, and talk about her life and childhood, as you will. give gifts. ones to show you listened to what she said she would like to have, or take her places she woulld like to go. [i mean like that new restraunt]
> 
> but talk kindly, and honestly to your wife. be patient and loving.
> find books at a local book store [i dont know whats in CA]maybe barnes and noble??] go together, learn and grow together. there can not be a realtionship if its one sided, the both of you must want the same out come...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely

akcroy said:


> Hi, I'm considering separation leading to divorce and my mind is a minefield right now. Could you please read on and share your feedback? Also, I just joined this forum (thank God I found it), so sorry if I've got the etiquette wrong or have used objectionable language. Sorry it's a long post...
> 
> We're both from India (now living in Vancouver). My wife of 4 yrs and I are a celibate couple, although not officially so and not by mutual choice. In other words, she's clearly not sexually interested in me. On top, she clearly displays alienating behavior - for instance, she's never interested in calling up anybody from my family or her own, even on festivals and special occasions. If you're anybody leaving a message on her phone, nine out of ten times she won't bother calling you back (unless you're from her workplace). And once on her birthday, I traveled all across the city to get her a cake, which she didn't even touch in the end because perhaps one-twelfth of it got squashed on the way.
> 
> By default family is important and at least not disposable in our culture. Yet when my parents (I'm their only surviving child) were visiting us after three years, her coldness towards them was way too apparent. When I confronted her about it, she argued that she "couldn't generate feelings for people" she didn't care about. (Sub-question: correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't one be polite and warm towards one's in-laws in any culture?)
> 
> I almost left her quite a few times recently, citing all the things that are wrong about our marriage. We ended up having sex for the first when I told her I wanted a divorce.
> 
> To make matters worse, she's really loving and caring towards me, albeit excluding said emotional and sexual issues. She's also never cheated on me or anything similar. Which is why I can't really bring myself to break up with her.
> 
> Before, I had tried cuddling, buying her lingerie, discussing fantasies, doing pretty much anything I could to woo her in bed. But she was always tired or stressed out over work, had a headache, needed space or was having her period. On the rare random nights when she was a little horny and was making advances herself, the best I could get was some kissing and fondling-licking. The last BJ I got from her (after lots of begging) was in 2009.
> 
> In the past I had also tried to discuss our sexual miscommunication several times, even wanting to get into therapy, but she just didn't want to talk about it. Even bringing up our lack of physical chemistry was taboo and created nasty fights. Now that our marriage is on the rocks, she's at least accommodating towards such discussions. She points out that I can't seem to create the mood she needs for sex. She's open to therapy.
> 
> But I seem to be the one who has to take the initiative in every case. And I've lost my patience. Frankly I'm unable and unwilling to reciprocate her advances. I've been disappointed on way too many occasions that started off great and then ended in me feeling ignored and lonely while I jerked off in the bathroom. I've lived too long with a smoking hot wife who turns heads everywhere but didn't give a damn about my male organ for nearly four years. Most of all, I feel cheap and disgusted living with the fact that the only time she's had sex with me was on the night I threatened to break up with her.
> 
> My question is, do you think it's right of me to feel that way? Am I being selfish when she's finally at least open to communication? Or are we really incompatible and wasting each other's time in life?


Women need connection to have sex and to feel horny.
If you already judged her as a cold person to your entire family, how can she feel she's wanted? You will need to communicate with her without making her feel insecure. Ask her also to show you love. Tell her you need to feel loved as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## akcroy

Thanks for responding. Isn't a connection a two-sided thing? I might have given you the impression that she's a pariah in my family due to her coldness - that is absolutely not the case. It breaks my heart to see that despite her not even trying to conceal her lack of caring for them, they regularly inquire about her, are concerned about her and secretly hope she'll pay them some attention.

In my defense, I have always defended her from any social awkwardness as best as possible. And her ignoring me sexually started long before any real family issues had surfaced. Never made her feel insecure, have always been positive and optimistic.

You're also ignoring my feelings here - after four years of being ignored, I feel pretty lousy and expect her to at least try a bit more to normalize our relationship.


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## reachingshore

Hi,

I asked my husband about your predicament. He is of Indian origin, from the US, currently living in Europe. 

He has some experience about it. He says he knew four couples in situations similar to yours. Three of them had arranged marriages. None of them survived in the long term. He is rather surprised you lasted 4 years. Most guys in your situation would not have lasted 2 years. 

You talk about culture - however I do not see your wife adhering to any cultural norms when she mistreats your family.

What I would be curious about is - if you had an arranged marriage is it at all possible that she had a love interest prior to marriage?

Right now what my husband would do, but it might be already too late for that, is threaten her with a divorce once a week, at least LOL Make sure you use protection, because the last thing you need is a child to complicate matters. 

Seriously though, do you really want to be with someone who might not want to be with you?


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## Mrs.G

akcroy said:


> Thanks for responding. Isn't a connection a two-sided thing? I might have given you the impression that she's a pariah in my family due to her coldness - that is absolutely not the case. It breaks my heart to see that despite her not even trying to conceal her lack of caring for them, they regularly inquire about her, are concerned about her and secretly hope she'll pay them some attention.
> 
> In my defense, I have always defended her from any social awkwardness as best as possible. And her ignoring me sexually started long before any real family issues had surfaced. Never made her feel insecure, have always been positive and optimistic.
> 
> You're also ignoring my feelings here - after four years of being ignored, I feel pretty lousy and expect her to at least try a bit more to normalize our relationship.


Women tend to ignore men's feelings, when discussing sexual problems in a marriage. It goes both ways and you have clearly made a valiant effort. If a husband is willing to romance his wife AND stay when she refuses to have sex, he's entitled to some sex! Women who don't want to have sex should not marry. Every spouse has the right to enjoy a sexual relationship.
You mentioned the fact that you are both Indian. I'm well aware that divorce is frowned upon in your culture, as well as not respecting elders. This is making a modern shift with the younger generation. I've seen many young indian women have love marriages and premarital sex.
In the end, you have to decide if your culture is worth your happiness. I was raised like most women with Jamaican parents: sexist and abusive parents are to be obeyed at all costs. I have been disowned because I'm independent and I refuse to take abuse. I miss my family of origin, but I don't need to be abused when I have created a family of two adults, with my husband.
There are MANY indian women that uphold the family inclusiveness, yet are tigers in bed. Life is too short.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020

MsLonely,
This is an off the charts ludicrous post. She WAS cold to his family. She even ADMITTED it. Of COURSE he was upset about that. Why are you putting this on him. She is a cold head case who simply is not attracted to him and doesn't care about him.




MsLonely said:


> Women need connection to have sex and to feel horny.
> If you already judged her as a cold person to your entire family, how can she feel she's wanted? You will need to communicate with her without making her feel insecure. Ask her also to show you love. Tell her you need to feel loved as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020

Akcroy,
You cannot expect to be happy in a marriage where the W is SO strongly averse to sex that only the threat of imminent divorce gets her to accommodate you. 

But I also have some general observations:
- First of all please ignore the comments from people telling you what you need to do in order to earn sex. They are ignoring the fact that you are MARRIED. They are speaking to you as if you are dating. When married, the "default" is you ARE having sex. It typically stops only if you are doing something WRONG. 
- If you are in a healthy marriage, sex happens with reasonable frequency UNLESS:
a. you are being an unsupportive husband/not nice/not loving OR
b. you are being TOO NICE in which case many/most women will eventually stop having sex with you

But the key word there is "eventually" - they would at least sleep with you for a few years until they bored of your overly nice/weak/conflict avoidant behavior. 

Go read "married man sex life"

In the meantime end your marriage. It is not a valid marriage when it takes 4 years and the threat of divorce to have sex.







akcroy said:


> Thanks for responding. Isn't a connection a two-sided thing? I might have given you the impression that she's a pariah in my family due to her coldness - that is absolutely not the case. It breaks my heart to see that despite her not even trying to conceal her lack of caring for them, they regularly inquire about her, are concerned about her and secretly hope she'll pay them some attention.
> 
> In my defense, I have always defended her from any social awkwardness as best as possible. And her ignoring me sexually started long before any real family issues had surfaced. Never made her feel insecure, have always been positive and optimistic.
> 
> You're also ignoring my feelings here - after four years of being ignored, I feel pretty lousy and expect her to at least try a bit more to normalize our relationship.


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## akcroy

Hi everybody, thanks for your feedback, sincerely appreciated. I decided to have one last talk/fight with my wife over these issues. She begged me not to leave her, so I didn't. Couldn't, rather.

She seems to be genuinely trying to make things work now. She's clearly interested in having sex, as well as addressing my emotional needs. She even has expressed the desire to at least reciprocate family nicenesses... yet to be seen in action, though.

Now I'm getting cold feet. It feels like I can't forgive her for the past 3 yrs of my life... I keep thinking, what kind of person am I living with? Why did we have to go through all that muck just for me to get some sexual/emotional attention? I'm almost paranoid over this and don't want to have sex with her.

Moreover, there's always a glance, a wince, a forced smile from her that gives away the 'constructed' nature of her efforts.

Am I being micro-conscious? Am I even being fair? What do you think I should do?

Sincerely,
a.


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## unbelievable

She sounds quite passive and expects little or nothing of herself. It's not her fault she's unsociable toward her in-laws. It's their fault because they don't generate some spontaeous magical feelings within her. It's not her fault she's a-sexual, it's you fault because you don't generate magical feelings. She's a slave to her emotions. She responds to what she feels like responding to, when she feels like responding. Sounds narcissistic to me but I'm no shrink. I don't understand the concept of not doing what is expected of me just because I don't feel like it.


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## akcroy

Once again thanks to everyone who responded. You have no idea what a difference you're making to my life...

@Pandakiss No offense taken. You know the problem is I'm not sure whether I can forgive her 100%. Can I? Should I? Would she have? I don't know.

Happy new year to everybody!


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## MEM2020

Here is how "this story" typically goes. 

W freezes husband out mostly/totally in the bedroom because she is not attracted to him or just does not like sex.

H threatens a divorce. Wife quickly comes to bed hoping to get pregnant and "lock" the H into the marriage. 

Do not let that happen. If you have sex - where a condom. Do NOT let her convince you she is on birth control. 

Since you can already tell how much effort (the wincing is a dead giveaway) for her there is no chance this is sustainable. 

You are dealing with WAY more than sexual aversion. Her social behavior towards you/your family shows a level of self focus that is incredibly dysfunctional. 

Think about it - you do not have kids - you made a mistake. Go start over. Your odds of a much much better match are good. Your odds of a worse match are almost zero.




akcroy said:


> Once again thanks to everyone who responded. You have no idea what a difference you're making to my life...
> 
> @Pandakiss No offense taken. You know the problem is I'm not sure whether I can forgive her 100%. Can I? Should I? Would she have? I don't know.
> 
> Happy new year to everybody!


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## akcroy

Update: no, I think she's genuine in her efforts to make our marriage work. She doesn't have a grand scheme of getting pregnant and hence trapping me or anything similar. I know for sure that she didn't have any serious affairs before we got married, and that she wasn't abused or anything like that as a kid.

I feel the sexual chemistry isn't there - when she's trying to get into the mood I'm just not falling for it, and vice versa. Speaking of myself, I'm just not sure whether I've forgiven her for my four years of celibacy.

She's trying, that much I have to give her. But we still haven't had sex since that one divorce-threatened time. (Shouldn't she have had tried harder? I mean come on, this is a big deal and enough to dissolve any marriage. Not to mention that it's she who never was interested in sex.)

Right now things are sour again - she refused to talk to my parents online in the evening because she was watching Real Housewives reruns.. a show which, at other times, she claims she doesn't care for. When I ask her to talk to them, she tells me she's busy, she'll talk later, etc. But she has time to chat up her own mom. She doesn't mind me not talking to her mom, but I don't really like this picture.

She's never, ever called up my parents on her own, or even talked to them online or over the phone without my asking her to do so. Even now, when she knows our marriage is troubled, she doesn't take that extra step - calling my parents, for example, at least on special occasions such as New Year's Eve. Should I be pissed? 

The kind of household where I come from, my maternal and paternal grandparents were treated equally. As I've mentioned previously, in my culture families grow with marriage; my in-laws are as respectable and important to me as my parents.. but in practice, thanks to my wife's doings, I no longer care for my in-laws. How can I maintain respecting and caring for them when my wife cares naught for hers? Besides, my in-laws have never seemed to be very interested in me when I used to call them. 

I'm so frustrated right now.


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## reachingshore

What about that emotionally alienating behavior towards you? Has that improved at least?


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## akcroy

@reachingshore Yes, it has; although how much, I don't know, since she's still quite adamant about her stand on things such as corresponding with my parents. And her set time and mood for sex.

I forgot to respond to a question you asked me previously - we actually didn't have an arranged marriage. We fell in love and convinced our families to accept our relationship.

I know she wants to live the rest of her life with me. But seems like it's going to be largely on her terms.


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## reachingshore

> we actually didn't have an arranged marriage


A... OK. I wasn't expecting this to be honest.

What I meant: if that's one of your problems with her, has she improved on showing you affection? Non-sexually related affection?
Did she talk to your parents on New Years Eve? Did she show that effort/willingness to improve in that regard, as she promised 2-3 days ago?


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## akcroy

She shows me more affection, and yes she did talk to my parents on New Year's Eve. But not voluntarily, I had to ask her to. It was still quite a formal affair.

She's made an overall effort, but I still have to ask her to do every little thing. Well the change is perhaps that she now at least does something - most of the time - if I ask her to.

And she still occasionally posts pretty self-pitiful status updates on Facebook.


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## MEM2020

Ackroy,
Why would you want to stay with someone with whom you can only negotiate at gunpoint?

By the way - after 21 years this is my definition of "true love": A genuine desire and ability to be pleasing to your partner. Full stop. Thats it. Clearly she lacks the desire - and only makes minimal effort now and only at the brink of divorce. What kind of life will that be for you?

This whole - wants to stay married but only on her terms will only work if you are willing to be a doormat.




akcroy said:


> She shows me more affection, and yes she did talk to my parents on New Year's Eve. But not voluntarily, I had to ask her to. It was still quite a formal affair.
> 
> She's made an overall effort, but I still have to ask her to do every little thing. Well the change is perhaps that she now at least does something - most of the time - if I ask her to.
> 
> And she still occasionally posts pretty self-pitiful status updates on Facebook.


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## LuckyCharmH

body we are coming from the same culture, your marriage will never last therefore leave before things get more complicated. 
May be the reason she does not want divorce is she is scared from culture judgment nothing else. 
to me what is worse the carelessness that is coming toward your family and anyone else. if my wife does not show caring toward them and communicate regularly how can i trust her with our kids.
that who she is, dont force to change her.


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## akcroy

MEM11363 said:


> Ackroy,
> Why would you want to stay with someone with whom you can only negotiate at gunpoint?
> 
> This whole - wants to stay married but only on her terms will only work if you are willing to be a doormat.


Why I still want to stay with her? Because despite everything, I still love her, and she loves me. I keep on hoping in my heart that everything will work out for us. 

So far, yes, any negotiations have been managed by putting her at "gunpoint", but I hope that will change too. She doesn't treat me like a doormat, and neither do I to her.

This is just a really tough marital crisis, and call me whatever you want, I just can't let go. Since that part's true, I keep on hoping.

Thanks for your feedback, once again. I'll let you guys know if there are any recent developments.


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## akcroy

@Pandakiss sorry, can't agree on the in-laws part. Culturally speaking, this is WAY out of line.

My parents never demand anything of her apart from sincere politeness, and even in making that demand they aren't vocal. So no question of facing a firing squad or laying a guilt trip. 

Her mom, astonishingly, is blind towards any behavioural shortcomings her daughter might display, which isn't helping anybody.

In short, the only pressure she faces about maintaining contact with my family is from me. Having seen her over these years, I'm sure it's not shame that's keeping her aloof.

The worst part is that she seems to display this air of escapism when it comes to talking to my parents. She genuinely doesn't care about them, and that hurts me. 

Still trying, but very hard. I'm also petrified about the possibilities of physical intimacy. Right now there is so much resentment in me because of all the times she's ignored me in bed that I fear I'll have a nervous breakdown when - if ever - she touches me in a sensual way..


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## reachingshore

akcroy said:


> Hi everybody, thanks for your feedback, sincerely appreciated. I decided to have one last talk/fight with my wife over these issues. She begged me not to leave her, so I didn't. Couldn't, rather.


So it's been a week since the talk/fight. Has she been working on any of the issues since then? Has anything improved?


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## mtg2

reachingshore said:


> So it's been a week since the talk/fight. Has she been working on any of the issues since then? Has anything improved?


I'm new to this site ... Actually to any online chat forum. I've followed this thread. Lots of great advice and support. 

I empathize with you. I'm here too as my marriage is in trouble and a very lonely place. Your state seems similar to mine. She has agreed to try, says she wants you and the marriage. But the wounds are deep and raw and so much time has passed. You've had the same conversations and asked for your needs to be met in so many ways. Efforts migght be being made but ..... How can you trust them? History has shown that the effort starts but eventually stops (not real change). Maybe your trust is that the effort is temporary, fleeting, leaving you in a very vulnerable place. Real change only occurs when that person decides it is what they need and want. The only change within your control is your own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## akcroy

Thanks again guys.

Update: no real change. Perhaps a lot due to me... I just can't convince myself that I should forgive her. I'm really hurt and troubled, but she can't seem to understand that. 

When she thinks about patching up things or starting afresh, it's from a 50-50 standpoint. But I can't agree with that, I feel like I deserve a lot more than an even distribution of attention at this point. 

After all I'm the one who's hurt. I wanted to have sex, she didn't give it to me. For four long years, save the time when I threatened to leave her (how do you ever make love to a person who does that to you?). I'm the one who was emotionally pushed to this corner. Her life was happy and perfect until I slammed down my foot.. after, like four years?

She hasn't called up my parents ever, and the record stands. I'm not really pushing her at all regarding that at this point. I'm just tired and don't give a damn about her parents and family, as she hardly cares about mine. 

Before I'd be all friendly and nice while talking to her family, secretly hoping my manners would convince her to mend hers. Didn't work, of course.. Now I've become this cold and aloof person. When I'm talking to them I'm cold and distant, and they can tell I don't like them very much. This she has noticed; told me yesterday I've become a lifeless person... suggested, out of desperation, that maybe she should leave.. I evaded the question.

Even my parents notice I don't have too many things to talk about during our Skype sessions. I don't really feel like talking to them anymore. I don't really feel like talking to anybody anymore... Even when someone calls, I don't feel like calling back, or even checking my voice messages. I don't feel like doing the dishes, doing any household chore, don't give a damn about saving money (something I've always tried to do; my wife is barely financially sensible, and isn't into any long term planning). 

Strangely, it's like I'm becoming the way she used to be before my threats of divorce ruffled her feathers. Not intentionally, but that's the way I'm turning out to be...

I hate myself, I think I'm losing my mind. I'm constantly so angry and helpless.. I'm scared to death that some small thing will tick us both of and we'll both explode, and I'll explode even more (the only way of ever cooling her down), and walk off from this marriage. I think my mental state has started to affect me physically as well.. don't feel so healthy; and whenever my wife is around I'm just extra-morbid, and my head hurts...

I've found myself become more and more attracted to alcohol. Nothing major, just a few beers, but drinking is a huge no-no in my culture, and I was never into it before, even socially. Drinking makes me feel less lonely somehow... Just goes on to show I'm deprecating, or so to speak. Plus my wife hates my drinking, which is perhaps a subconscious positive reinforcement.

We (I) tried having sex with her a few days ago, playfully cuddling her and all that while we were watching a movie at home (we have the DVD). She tells me she's too absorbed into to movie. I try a bit more and she tells me she's just eaten so she can't. After the movie, she takes a nap.. She doesn't mention or remember any intentions of sex when she wakes up or later in the day.. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but she realizes full well that our marriage is in ****. Shouldn't she be a bit more concerned and eager about prioritizing sex?? 

She just doesn't understand the gravity of our situation and the pain I'm in. I found out I can't even masturbate while she's in the same building, I just don't feel like it. It's been a long time now since porn last had an effect on me. When I see sex scenes on TV, or even any mention of sex, it fills up my mouth with a bad taste. 

Yesterday we had dinner at this fancy restaurant. I was functionally happy, and then she brought up the idea that she would go to England later this year for her nephew's 1st birthday. She knows, I have always told her, that the first place I want to visit would be my home country; I haven't been there since we got here, and I'm really, really homesick... (she's been back home, btw, while my parents were visiting us here in Canada). 

I encouraged her to go if she wants to. She then says that she was thinking both of us would go... when I repeat my intentions of visiting India first, she's put off immediately... the evening turns quiet. Was it sound timing on her part to even bring up the question when our marriage is in a crisis? Plus she didn't even ask the question like "let's go.." it was literally "i will go..." followed by my response followed by "i was hoping you would too..." Not to mention the financial aspects, we're supposedly trying to save for a house and haven't even managed to buy a car yet.

In all fairness, yesterday she also told me she had gotten her period, otherwise she was planning to give herself to me. After the movie incident, somehow I'm not the least bit interested. I highly doubt that I can have sex with her, ever..

Despite all that (and I mean all our issues, if we can ignore them), she's trying, I can tell, but she barely has patience for me. And right now I really need her to be patient.. after all, I've been the same with her for years, right? And she can't take a few weeks of ****ed-up me?? She's not even considering where I'm coming from.

Yet she's really nice to me, and I know she'd be lost and devastated without me. I don't want to live with her, I think, but at the same time I can't bear living with her. This is all so painful, and confusing.

I'm thinking of suggesting therapy, but I'm unsure we're even on the same page. Once again, I might be the one in more trouble.


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## MEM2020

The movie behavior could not be more clear. She does NOT feel attraction for you. She would be satisfied being your roommate open ended - perhaps you earn more than she does and she has a financial incentive. 

She is NOT nice to you. She knows you have been losing your mind due to sexual deprivation for 4 YEARS. She didn't care at all. ZERO. Until you threatened divorce. THAT is not nice. In fact it is extremely selfish and cruel. What you are calling "nice" is her being polite/friendly to you when you are meeting all of HER needs. And that is not nice, it is purely practical. 

Even with the threat of divorce she can barely bring herself to think about sex. Waiting until her period to mention she wants it - is just more manipulation. As for the trip - well at least she is consistent. She quietly hums the "me me me" song all day long every day.

If my arm got gangrene I would cut it off. YES it would hurt and I would always miss it. But leaving it on would lead to death. 

Time for a clean break. Start over fresh. Else you will always be begging for sex/treated like a doormat. 

BTW - for future reference. Your foot needs to come down ON THE HONEYMOON. Firmly. If you create a long term pattern it is near impossible to break. If someone declines "regular" sex on the honeymoon you are likely in for misery. 



akcroy said:


> Thanks again guys.
> 
> Update: no real change. Perhaps a lot due to me... I just can't convince myself that I should forgive her. I'm really hurt and troubled, but she can't seem to understand that.
> 
> When she thinks about patching up things or starting afresh, it's from a 50-50 standpoint. But I can't agree with that, I feel like I deserve a lot more than an even distribution of attention at this point.
> 
> After all I'm the one who's hurt. I wanted to have sex, she didn't give it to me. For four long years, save the time when I threatened to leave her (how do you ever make love to a person who does that to you?). I'm the one who was emotionally pushed to this corner. Her life was happy and perfect until I slammed down my foot.. after, like four years?
> 
> She hasn't called up my parents ever, and the record stands. I'm not really pushing her at all regarding that at this point. I'm just tired and don't give a damn about her parents and family, as she hardly cares about mine.
> 
> Before I'd be all friendly and nice while talking to her family, secretly hoping my manners would convince her to mend hers. Didn't work, of course.. Now I've become this cold and aloof person. When I'm talking to them I'm cold and distant, and they can tell I don't like them very much. This she has noticed; told me yesterday I've become a lifeless person... suggested, out of desperation, that maybe she should leave.. I evaded the question.
> 
> Even my parents notice I don't have too many things to talk about during our Skype sessions. I don't really feel like talking to them anymore. I don't really feel like talking to anybody anymore... Even when someone calls, I don't feel like calling back, or even checking my voice messages. I don't feel like doing the dishes, doing any household chore, don't give a damn about saving money (something I've always tried to do; my wife is barely financially sensible, and isn't into any long term planning).
> 
> Strangely, it's like I'm becoming the way she used to be before my threats of divorce ruffled her feathers. Not intentionally, but that's the way I'm turning out to be...
> 
> I hate myself, I think I'm losing my mind. I'm constantly so angry and helpless.. I'm scared to death that some small thing will tick us both of and we'll both explode, and I'll explode even more (the only way of ever cooling her down), and walk off from this marriage. I think my mental state has started to affect me physically as well.. don't feel so healthy; and whenever my wife is around I'm just extra-morbid, and my head hurts...
> 
> I've found myself become more and more attracted to alcohol. Nothing major, just a few beers, but drinking is a huge no-no in my culture, and I was never into it before, even socially. Drinking makes me feel less lonely somehow... Just goes on to show I'm deprecating, or so to speak. Plus my wife hates my drinking, which is perhaps a subconscious positive reinforcement.
> 
> We (I) tried having sex with her a few days ago, playfully cuddling her and all that while we were watching a movie at home (we have the DVD). She tells me she's too absorbed into to movie. I try a bit more and she tells me she's just eaten so she can't. After the movie, she takes a nap.. She doesn't mention or remember any intentions of sex when she wakes up or later in the day.. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but she realizes full well that our marriage is in ****. Shouldn't she be a bit more concerned and eager about prioritizing sex??
> 
> She just doesn't understand the gravity of our situation and the pain I'm in. I found out I can't even masturbate while she's in the same building, I just don't feel like it. It's been a long time now since porn last had an effect on me. When I see sex scenes on TV, or even any mention of sex, it fills up my mouth with a bad taste.
> 
> Yesterday we had dinner at this fancy restaurant. I was functionally happy, and then she brought up the idea that she would go to England later this year for her nephew's 1st birthday. She knows, I have always told her, that the first place I want to visit would be my home country; I haven't been there since we got here, and I'm really, really homesick... (she's been back home, btw, while my parents were visiting us here in Canada).
> 
> I encouraged her to go if she wants to. She then says that she was thinking both of us would go... when I repeat my intentions of visiting India first, she's put off immediately... the evening turns quiet. Was it sound timing on her part to even bring up the question when our marriage is in a crisis? Plus she didn't even ask the question like "let's go.." it was literally "i will go..." followed by my response followed by "i was hoping you would too..." Not to mention the financial aspects, we're supposedly trying to save for a house and haven't even managed to buy a car yet.
> 
> In all fairness, yesterday she also told me she had gotten her period, otherwise she was planning to give herself to me. After the movie incident, somehow I'm not the least bit interested. I highly doubt that I can have sex with her, ever..
> 
> Despite all that (and I mean all our issues, if we can ignore them), she's trying, I can tell, but she barely has patience for me. And right now I really need her to be patient.. after all, I've been the same with her for years, right? And she can't take a few weeks of ****ed-up me?? She's not even considering where I'm coming from.
> 
> Yet she's really nice to me, and I know she'd be lost and devastated without me. I don't want to live with her, I think, but at the same time I can't bear living with her. This is all so painful, and confusing.
> 
> I'm thinking of suggesting therapy, but I'm unsure we're even on the same page. Once again, I might be the one in more trouble.


----------



## reachingshore

For a person who has never really drunk alcohol, reaching for a bottle while being sad/depressed is a road straight to hell. From someone who knows.

I am confused about you being hung up on her calling up your parents. Do you mean you mind because she doesn't want to say a word to your parents while you are on the phone with them (say, to join you in wishing them well for New Years)? Or is it that you expect her to herself reaching for that phone to initiate a phone call to your parents? I know there are "women only" Indian festivals, where your wife should call your mother.

My husband skypes (grudgingly) with his father once every two weeks, on average. He is an only child and his parents are in their 60s and 70s (they had him late in life). Usually they talk about cricket or politics or business. If I have something to say, I chime in, but usually whatever news there are, my husband has already mentioned it to his dad. Sometimes his dad asks my husband for me to come on the phone in the middle of their chat, which I do. I really like and am lucky with my in-laws. On the other hand, my husband doesn't give a damn about many Indian traditions and sometimes I am the one that has to remind/force him to make that phone call :rofl:

It's been what, 10 days now since you had the last talk/fight with your wife? Sure, one might say it is early on, but then considering it's been 4 years... I am sorry for your sake, but I am still going to stick to my vote on your poll and say: get divorced.


----------



## sailorgirl

I'm in a similar boat with you. I have a husband who does not like sex who views sex as simply the means for begetting children. He takes the position that I should be happy that he is not pressuring me to have sex. Never mind that I have told him over and over that I want it from him. 

I've been at this for 15 years, mainly because I was stupid in the first few years and thought having children who change him. 

There has been a few times when he has tried to change, and things would be better for a few weeks then he will go back to his old ways. 

All I can say is if she is open to therapy give it a try, if she still refuses to change then by all means opt for a divorce.


----------



## akcroy

Hi, and thanks again for all your responses. I may not always agree with everybody's views but I really appreciate the feedback.

UPDATE: things are better now. My wife actually voluntarily joins in when I talk to my parents over Skype. She has done this for a couple of days in a row now, punctuated only by her night shifts at work. Needless to say, my parents are rejuvenated.

I don't know whether she's come to the conclusion to address my and my family's emotional needs on her own, or whether someone from her side has convinced her to do so (this happens all the time - she asks me about what to do regarding a particular situation, be it work, social, etc, and then I tell her, she disagrees and we fight.. finally, someone from work, or basically just anybody else apart from me tells her the same thing and she does that.. then comes back and kinda tells me about it. I then tell her "I told you so", and we smile it off.. but for me it's not always so simple, I feel irritated that she values my opinion so less... anyway, I hope she came to the conclusion to communicate more with my parents on her own).

Still no sex (she's having her period, so not really on the cards at the moment). But I don't think I can have sex with her. The old monster of resentment creeps in, and I just can't imagine us together in an intimate setting. I feel horrible; maybe I'm just a selfish person.

And from time to time the very minor things pop up once again... like last night I was terribly sleepy (I'm a light sleeper, so that's something) and needed to go to bed (had to get up for work 6 hrs later), but she wanted to browse the internet and kept the lights on. Her argument was that she had just come back from home, had dinner and now wanted to spend a few minutes for herself..

Once again, I know this is very minor but something as simple as this managed to open the floodgate of my disappointments over the years. I had a hard time taking my thoughts elsewhere.

I try to resist alcohol as best as I can, and sometimes I just can't.

I know many of you will disagree with me on this, but I want to try to get my marriage to work. I am trying, and I know she is too. Question is, has she really changed, or is she the same selfish person who didn't give a damn about my feelings and who's now masking her persona to keep her marriage alive? How can I forgive her? Should I?

Wish me luck, and God bless you all.


----------



## MEM2020

*The mirage*

There is only one way to know what "I love you" means to your partner. Ignore what they say and focus on what they do. 

You have communicated how critical sex is to you for 4 years. So before you have sex and risk bringing a baby into a terribly broken marriage you likely should get her to answer a question. You can word the question however you like but the basic flavor of it goes like this:
1. Are you really just "indifferent" to sex but so completely unconcerned about my feelings that you have rejected me for 4 years? or

2. Are you so "repelled" by the idea of sex with me that even though you did feel bad about my misery, you simply could not overcome your physical aversion? 

I think there is some chance she will try to convince you that she just didn't "understand" how much it meant to you. As an objective observer I can tell you straight - that is not possible. You cannot reject someone for 4 years and not realize how much anguish it is causing. So this type approach is the "I will rewrite history and blame you for not communicating how much it mattered". 

The sad thing is you seem determined to try to push a "string" uphill. Can't be done. Two people have to want to make it "work". As for the video conferencing - big deal. So she acts polite for a few minutes a few times a week. She clearly likes being your room mate. So if she can keep that going by talking to your parents - she will. 

The bit about the light is very instructive. I would guess you would never do that to her. If she needed her sleep - you would either go into another room - even the bathroom if need be - to work/read/compute rather than deny her rest. 

At least give her credit for being consistent. When her needs conflict with yours, she throws you under the bus without hesitation. 

As for your relative financial contributions - you don't need to answer. I would take a 10 to 1 bet that you are the main breadwinner and that is a big part of your appeal as a room mate. In this case the money part is hurting you since it is almost certain the biggest single factor in her not walking out the door. 




akcroy said:


> Hi, and thanks again for all your responses. I may not always agree with everybody's views but I really appreciate the feedback.
> 
> UPDATE: things are better now. My wife actually voluntarily joins in when I talk to my parents over Skype. She has done this for a couple of days in a row now, punctuated only by her night shifts at work. Needless to say, my parents are rejuvenated.
> 
> I don't know whether she's come to the conclusion to address my and my family's emotional needs on her own, or whether someone from her side has convinced her to do so (this happens all the time - she asks me about what to do regarding a particular situation, be it work, social, etc, and then I tell her, she disagrees and we fight.. finally, someone from work, or basically just anybody else apart from me tells her the same thing and she does that.. then comes back and kinda tells me about it. I then tell her "I told you so", and we smile it off.. but for me it's not always so simple, I feel irritated that she values my opinion so less... anyway, I hope she came to the conclusion to communicate more with my parents on her own).
> 
> Still no sex (she's having her period, so not really on the cards at the moment). But I don't think I can have sex with her. The old monster of resentment creeps in, and I just can't imagine us together in an intimate setting. I feel horrible; maybe I'm just a selfish person.
> 
> And from time to time the very minor things pop up once again... like last night I was terribly sleepy (I'm a light sleeper, so that's something) and needed to go to bed (had to get up for work 6 hrs later), but she wanted to browse the internet and kept the lights on. Her argument was that she had just come back from home, had dinner and now wanted to spend a few minutes for herself..
> 
> Once again, I know this is very minor but something as simple as this managed to open the floodgate of my disappointments over the years. I had a hard time taking my thoughts elsewhere.
> 
> I try to resist alcohol as best as I can, and sometimes I just can't.
> 
> I know many of you will disagree with me on this, but I want to try to get my marriage to work. I am trying, and I know she is too. Question is, has she really changed, or is she the same selfish person who didn't give a damn about my feelings and who's now masking her persona to keep her marriage alive? How can I forgive her? Should I?
> 
> Wish me luck, and God bless you all.


----------



## Mrs.G

MEM11363 said:


> Akcroy,
> You cannot expect to be happy in a marriage where the W is SO strongly averse to sex that only the threat of imminent divorce gets her to accommodate you.
> 
> But I also have some general observations:
> - First of all please ignore the comments from people telling you what you need to do in order to earn sex. They are ignoring the fact that you are MARRIED. They are speaking to you as if you are dating. When married, the "default" is you ARE having sex. It typically stops only if you are doing something WRONG.
> - If you are in a healthy marriage, sex happens with reasonable frequency UNLESS:
> a. you are being an unsupportive husband/not nice/not loving OR
> b. you are being TOO NICE in which case many/most women will eventually stop having sex with you
> 
> But the key word there is "eventually" - they would at least sleep with you for a few years until they bored of your overly nice/weak/conflict avoidant behavior.
> 
> Go read "married man sex life"
> 
> In the meantime end your marriage. It is not a valid marriage when it takes 4 years and the threat of divorce to have sex.


:iagree:


----------



## akcroy

She's actually interested in having sex now. I agree that her not "understanding" the necessity to have sex over 4 yrs speaks volumes about her, but at the same time I do love her and have to believe in her. True, it's too soon to arrive at any conclusions, but if I am to look at my life recently then I am definitely seeing signs of progress. 

She also blames herself for our sexual chemistry, or lack of...

She earns more than me, btw, so no financial motives here.


----------



## MEM2020

Akcroy,
She says she is interested in having sex now. How can that be? Could you be attracted to "men" tomorrow? Could you just decide "I am going to be gay" because you had some logical reason for that making sense? Of course not. Just like you can't be attracted to men, she does not have an "ackroy" "on/off" switch. At BEST you will get a pitiful amount of sex and she will get pregnant and then you really WILL be stuck. 

How can you love someone who has treated you so very badly. 





akcroy said:


> She's actually interested in having sex now. I agree that her not "understanding" the necessity to have sex over 4 yrs speaks volumes about her, but at the same time I do love her and have to believe in her. True, it's too soon to arrive at any conclusions, but if I am to look at my life recently then I am definitely seeing signs of progress.
> 
> She also blames herself for our sexual chemistry, or lack of...
> 
> She earns more than me, btw, so no financial motives here.


----------



## ThinkTooMuch

MEM11363 said:


> Akcroy,
> She says she is interested in having sex now. How can that be? Could you be attracted to "men" tomorrow? Could you just decide "I am going to be gay" because you had some logical reason for that making sense? Of course not. Just like you can't be attracted to men, she does not have an "ackroy" "on/off" switch. At BEST you will get a pitiful amount of sex and she will get pregnant and then you really WILL be stuck.
> 
> How can you love someone who has treated you so very badly.


Akcroy,
:iagree: STRONGLY with MEM11363

Were I you, I'd file for divorce immediately, IMO it is rare for marital problems of this type to get better.

I understand your lack of desire to make love to her, you've been rejected for four years, you are a young man, you and she were in love. What happened? When did she lose interest in you?

You are not receiving the love and/or sexual intimacy marriage entails, you are in love with an image, not reality.

For the sake of your years unlived, your unborn children, please start divorce proceedings - your w is not a woman who will make you happy. Don't do what I did too often these last years and convince myself that one pleasant encounter every few weeks is enough to make me think we had a chance, until rejection piled up on rejection. Only by my moving out did my someday ex-W begin to comprehend how much she lost, while living w/o her has shown me

1. how much of my energy she soaked up
2. that there are women who want me - caring, loving women, women with open arms and high libidos.

My someday ex-W has asked to live with me again, I've told her NO. Like you W she has a number of psychological issues she has to deal with, perhaps in three or more years she'll resolve them, I won't be a part of the resolution.


----------



## reachingshore

Do what you feel is right for you then. Make sure though, for your own sake, that you do not get yourselves a baby any time soon or at least till the time you feel her newly found resolution is there to stay.

As far as your resentments go, and your inhibitions from having sex with her, you've got to bite the bullet. Hopefully you will have to do it while having sex with her the first time. If she continues working on her end of the relationship you will feel better and forget about it.


----------



## akcroy

Once again thank you very much everybody for your kind feedback. I understand that you might not agree with my standpoint - that I want to keep trying - but please bear with me! I am going through an incredibly difficult phase of my life and I am trying very hard to make sense of everything. I know that I might be wrong in the way I'm approaching my situation, but I still want to try as best as I can. At the end of that path it may be that all I'm left with is heartbreak, but for the sake of my conscience at least I want to give my marriage that fighting chance.

After all, I fell in love with this girl for some reason, and I'm not sure that indescribable reason has been extinguished despite all our fallouts. I therefore can't afford to rush into anything.

Current problem: I'm losing my cool with her (how ironic, I'm writing about losing my cool when I'm begging all of you not to be impatient with me). Anyway, I feel this anger pretty much all the time; I keep thinking, why did she do all she did over 3-4 years? Why has she changed now?

Understandably this is very hard for her, now that she is seemingly making a genuine effort to make things right. She is also being very patient with me in spite of my mood swings which follow any un-fond nostalgia I might experience...

Talks to my parents on a regular basis - everyday, actually.

But I can't seem to feel attracted to her physically anymore. She has guessed this, as she has tried to become intimate with me a few times now... She assures me we'll get through this rough patch..

I have asked her to seek therapy for both of us.

Found out I can't even masturbate any more. Even when I can, the process is so laborious it's a hundred miles south of pleasure. 

I am lost and confused. 

My mind blanks off for minutes at a time quite often, and I'm standing stupidly somewhere or have just dropped out of a conversation... Should I see a shrink?


----------



## akcroy

Hi again, and hope some of you are still following this thread. I know that many of you feel that my marriage has run its course, but I still feel otherwise, and the two of us are putting in a lot of effort into it to make it work.

We end up having arguments from time to time. My wife feels like I am constantly threatening to leave her based on her past behavior. I try to convince her that that's certainly never my intention, and I love her deeply. Yet things get ugly occasionally. 

Yesterday was a nice day, and it was planned that we would join some friends to catch a movie. When we were almost near their place, we had a fight over said issues. I have to admit I failed to keep my cool too (these days whenever I'm upset I get a bad headache). 

In the end my wife swore at me on the train (I'm sure a few people heard), and although I didn't swear back I was obviously in a very bad temper. That was minutes before we got there. The thing is once we were with our friends my wife was all smiley as if nothing had happened. This is something I've noticed her doing in the past as well. I can't rollback from emotional situation so easily - I was quiet for the good half of the evening, saying I had a headache. After a while, at the theatre my wife promised never to swear at me again, but even that didn't improve my mood, since she has made similar promises before. Although now of course she tries a lot harder than before.

My question is, can women "snap back" to being their social selves after a fight, while guys can't? Or is it just me who is emotionally underdeveloped or something? Or is my wife not being very helpful here?

Bigger question: with the view that we want this marriage to work, how can we avoid such fights?

Another thing is my wife often points out that I have male chauvinist tendencies - I absolutely disagree - and she points this out when I ask her to do something even for her own good, e.g. see a dentist for a tooth problem. Bear in mind that I'm a soft-spoken person, I never "command" her, ever. I also never complain if she doesn't cook for days at a stretch (I don't cook myself, and am okay with takeout food or anything digestible pretty much to keep her happy). So from my perspective, I never ask her to do anything that I'd imagine a traditional husband would do (cooking, cleaning, etc..). I actually can't even imagine myself asking her to do those things either! 

So as a husband, do I qualify as a male chauvinist if I ask my wife to do things at all? She also claims I have this unconscious tendency to be the head of the family - how am I even supposed to respond to that!? I told her it's probably because I'm a guy and she's imagining things..

Thanks in advance for responding.


----------



## Draguna

Accidentally voted yes. Meant now. MEM has said pretty much everything I thought. I would not go on. End it, and fast. If she has any motive other than wanting to change because she feels like she has been an unpleasant person, quit out of the relationship.

P.S., Most of the time, it's the person who started the fight/got the last respons in that can snap back to being normal. Especially if they have an appearance to keep up.


----------



## reachingshore

Given her unwillingness/inability to deal well socially (you said something like that before), might be she was trying to shoot your mood to he*l, thus making you want to leave earlier than you otherwise would have.


----------



## MEM2020

The simplest metric for chauvinism/head of household/bossiness is the golden rule: How would you react if she said to you - what you are saying to her? 

If you would be fine with her saying it to you - you are likely fine. 

While I respect your determination I sincerely hope that you make sure you get to, and remain at a success level in your marriage that you are consistently happy with for at least one year before you expose yourself to the possibility of having a child. Which means you where a condom if/when you have sex. Do not leave it to your W to be on birth control. 

Ackroy, 
ALL of your problems with her are predicated on the same problem. You have allowed her to show no respect for you and your needs. It really is that simple. 

In a healthy marriage both spouses seriously consider the impact that their actions have on their partner. YOU do that. She does not. Your needs for physical love (sex), consideration for your need to sleep, simple social interactions with your parents are all "standard fare" in a healthy marriage. 
In fact if it were me, she would be on a rapid path to consistently showing me respect BEFORE I would even be willing to sleep with her. Who wants sex with a woman who does not respect them. 

Her emotionally selfish (abusive?) behavior is already causing you health problems (impotence and chronic headaches) even though you are very young. One thing you need to decide is whether you are emotionally "tough" enough to have this person as your life mate. Her ability to quickly and easily recover from a fight that is so serious she is cursing at you, shows a combination of toughness and lack of love for you. 

And FYI MOST spouses would not recover in minutes, maybe not even hours, after their partner cursed at them in public. You are normal. 




akcroy said:


> Hi again, and hope some of you are still following this thread. I know that many of you feel that my marriage has run its course, but I still feel otherwise, and the two of us are putting in a lot of effort into it to make it work.
> 
> We end up having arguments from time to time. My wife feels like I am constantly threatening to leave her based on her past behavior. I try to convince her that that's certainly never my intention, and I love her deeply. Yet things get ugly occasionally.
> 
> Yesterday was a nice day, and it was planned that we would join some friends to catch a movie. When we were almost near their place, we had a fight over said issues. I have to admit I failed to keep my cool too (these days whenever I'm upset I get a bad headache).
> 
> In the end my wife swore at me on the train (I'm sure a few people heard), and although I didn't swear back I was obviously in a very bad temper. That was minutes before we got there. The thing is once we were with our friends my wife was all smiley as if nothing had happened. This is something I've noticed her doing in the past as well. I can't rollback from emotional situation so easily - I was quiet for the good half of the evening, saying I had a headache. After a while, at the theatre my wife promised never to swear at me again, but even that didn't improve my mood, since she has made similar promises before. Although now of course she tries a lot harder than before.
> 
> My question is, can women "snap back" to being their social selves after a fight, while guys can't? Or is it just me who is emotionally underdeveloped or something? Or is my wife not being very helpful here?
> 
> Bigger question: with the view that we want this marriage to work, how can we avoid such fights?
> 
> Another thing is my wife often points out that I have male chauvinist tendencies - I absolutely disagree - and she points this out when I ask her to do something even for her own good, e.g. see a dentist for a tooth problem. Bear in mind that I'm a soft-spoken person, I never "command" her, ever. I also never complain if she doesn't cook for days at a stretch (I don't cook myself, and am okay with takeout food or anything digestible pretty much to keep her happy). So from my perspective, I never ask her to do anything that I'd imagine a traditional husband would do (cooking, cleaning, etc..). I actually can't even imagine myself asking her to do those things either!
> 
> So as a husband, do I qualify as a male chauvinist if I ask my wife to do things at all? She also claims I have this unconscious tendency to be the head of the family - how am I even supposed to respond to that!? I told her it's probably because I'm a guy and she's imagining things..
> 
> Thanks in advance for responding.


----------



## akcroy

Hi everybody, thanks for feedback. 

@MEM11363, a child is the furthest thing from my mind right now and yes I always use a condom. I have to make absolutely sure that she won't do an emotional U-turn on me when we have kids. 1 year sounds reasonable. And yes, I agree I should have made my stand firmly a long time back, before any of these issues could arise, instead of having relied on the hypothetical goodness in our souls and the wonders of time and maturity.

We ended up in bed last night, due to my advances. However, minutes into it and I was just doing routine stuff.. i.e. I wasn't really enjoying it anymore - I kept thinking, what am I doing? Can I really trust her? But I kept on going to make it feel real, thinking if she finds it pleasurable maybe that will turn me on. It didn't, and when she tried to give me a BJ I wouldn't c*m. Anyway, by then I had already helped her to an orgasm.

We're both very naive about sex, understandably, but she seems to be a lot bolder than before, asking me about my fantasies, checking out sexual positions online, etc.

Btw, I can masturbate now, although takes longer than usual. So I guess I don't have ED..

I think I still have my emotional reservations about my wife. I know she's making a super effort by her standards, but I'm unsure they meet my standards. 

The tiniest things bite me - the way she talks with anybody on the phone - I'm the kind of person who believes if you smile to somebody while you're talking to them on the phone, they can feel the smile.. she's not. How messy she is - she always leaves things around, from used cottonbuds to clothes to dirty plates. And so on.

Is it right of me to feel this way, or am I being selfish here? In any case although things are improving I sometimes personally feel like I'm stuck in square one.


----------



## MEM2020

Akcroy,
I honestly think you are doing the "right" things. Also that you have made a very perceptive observation: Is her "best effort" good enough for you? I would encourage you to think about a few things:
1. Some of the things that are irritating to you - who smiles or doesn't on a phone call, are triggered by a 4 year reservoir of resentment.
2. It is not possible for anyone other than you to assess her overall behavior in terms of how loving, respectful and considerate she is to you. That said if we had a "neural jack" and could drop "me" into your body for a week I imagine it would be a VERY difficult week for her. It is quite hard for you to be objective - not because you love her - but because she has treated you so poorly for so long that even a small effort on her part is a BIG improvement in your eyes. The problem with that is - over time - your innate sense of fairness will respond very badly if you feel like the new "steady state" is still very one sided. 

You genuinely seem like a good person. That said you might want to memorize a phrase I once heard as it seems very apt to your current situation.

You cannot tolerate or encourage a pattern of monsterous behavior and then claim to be surprised when one morning you wake up and realize you are with a monster. 

When needs collide:
Your W seems to really struggle with the idea of marriage as a partnership and a series of compromises. When you want A and she wants B, she seems to struggle to graciously put your needs first. Emphasis on graciously. If every "need" conflict is unpleasant that is toxic. 

The biggest reason for this concern is simple. The current dynamic while broken is simple. It is you and her - full stop. When you add children it is much more complicated. A very common outcome when children are added is that the female puts the kids first, herself second and her husband gets completely deprioritized. BTW - this is not a "chip on your shoulder post" - my W did NOT deprioritize me when the kids came. Whether it was love, fear (that I would decamp) or likely a mix of the two - she made enough effort for me to feel loved and happy. 

You have a huge hill to climb. Basically you are going to need to completely reverse the 4 year pattern of your W not taking you seriously and not being respectful of you or your needs. 

Personally I think your best shot at that is going to require you to change in a big, big way. This is my guess from what you have posted so far:
- You need to be WAY WAY less emotional with her. You need to get FULLY in control of your OUTWARD emotional affect. And mostly in control of you INNER emotional state. Often the biggest single factor in achieving calm/peace is accepting that you are going to do the "right" thing, day in and day out. And whatever happens happens. 
- If you screw up immediately apologize. If she declines your apology and attempts to over dramatize - ignore her. That is about her not about you. When she screws up, is lazy, etc. Be calm, constructive and if possible use humor to get her to do the right thing. Lets straighten up before we get distracted by phone/computer etc. How about I start the laundry - while you clean up x,y,z? 
- When you ASK her to be your partner in a respectful and clear manner and she refuses - do not get angry. Do your stuff and leave her stuff where it is. And decline any interaction with her at all until she takes care of her stuff. She IS going to fight this for a week or two since you have let her treat you like a servant for so long. If she won't come around on THAT type stuff your marriage is over. And come around means cheerful support of your mutual goals. If it is always a battle of wills over simple day to day stuff - the marriage is DOA.
- Increase the positive emotional energy YOU bring to the marriage. But only do so when she is being your partner. Get her used to: calm, upbeat, happy and playful - when things are good. Calm, reserved, maybe even cold - when she is being selfish/unreasonable/disrespectful. 
- ZERO tolerance on disrespectful behavior towards you. But that means you have to set a high bar yourself - in your treatment of her. You cannot be angry/combative/whiny and expect her to treat you any differently. 
- It is perfectly fine to say "that is unacceptable" when she behaves badly. If she genuinely doesn't understand why - explain it. If she "does" understand but wants to persuade you to "lower the bar" - just say "I disagree" and end the conversation. 
- It is TOTALLY toxic for you to express reservations about the marriage at this point. No matter what she does do NOT talk about your "doubts" about whether it is going to work. Pick a timeframe - maybe 90 days - and bring your A game every day. If at the end of that time you decide it isn't working. End it and walk away. In the meantime you are "all in" until the day you are "all out". 
- Be honest about what you want. Don't sulk or complain or whine if you don't get it. Go amuse yourself constructively at the gym/with friends etc. Slowly deprioritize her if she is not inclined to put your needs first at least half the time. 

Over time she will either come to feel happy by making you happy. Or she won't. If she doesn't - walk away. If she does, hang in there. She won't be able to hide that, and ultimately it is the truest form of love. And yes - that will translate into sexual behavior. But what should really happen is that her overall behavior is the same in and out of bed. 


















akcroy said:


> Hi everybody, thanks for feedback.
> 
> @MEM11363, a child is the furthest thing from my mind right now and yes I always use a condom. I have to make absolutely sure that she won't do an emotional U-turn on me when we have kids. 1 year sounds reasonable. And yes, I agree I should have made my stand firmly a long time back, before any of these issues could arise, instead of having relied on the hypothetical goodness in our souls and the wonders of time and maturity.
> 
> We ended up in bed last night, due to my advances. However, minutes into it and I was just doing routine stuff.. i.e. I wasn't really enjoying it anymore - I kept thinking, what am I doing? Can I really trust her? But I kept on going to make it feel real, thinking if she finds it pleasurable maybe that will turn me on. It didn't, and when she tried to give me a BJ I wouldn't c*m. Anyway, by then I had already helped her to an orgasm.
> 
> We're both very naive about sex, understandably, but she seems to be a lot bolder than before, asking me about my fantasies, checking out sexual positions online, etc.
> 
> Btw, I can masturbate now, although takes longer than usual. So I guess I don't have ED..
> 
> I think I still have my emotional reservations about my wife. I know she's making a super effort by her standards, but I'm unsure they meet my standards.
> 
> The tiniest things bite me - the way she talks with anybody on the phone - I'm the kind of person who believes if you smile to somebody while you're talking to them on the phone, they can feel the smile.. she's not. How messy she is - she always leaves things around, from used cottonbuds to clothes to dirty plates. And so on.
> 
> Is it right of me to feel this way, or am I being selfish here? In any case although things are improving I sometimes personally feel like I'm stuck in square one.


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## akcroy

Hi MEM11363, that was really helpful! Thank you.

I don't think I woke up one morning and found out I was living with a monster. I think everything took off in light speed when my parents were here to visit - despite her behaviour over the years, I had never dreamed that she would treat them like that, or that anybody could be that rude with anybody coming to visit. I guess that was my last straw.

I agree that it's an uphill task because of the faults - both her and mine - over the years. But it's the moments when everything works well - they're so beautiful - that I keep having faith that our marriage will work. Plus, she does care about me infinitely.. although not enough to treat the people I love with minimum respect.

There, did you see that? That was my resentment, my reservations about her capacity for sincereness on spontaneous display. I didn't even think of writing that, I was just typing the previous line and that part sort of naturally followed. She seems to become a completely different person if she's talking to somebody she doesn't care for, and however hard she's trying now I can't shake off the feeling that the only reason she's doing all this is because she's scared of losing me. Not because she has a shred of feeling for the somebody in question. 

Am I sure I want to live with somebody like that for the rest of my life? What are my kids going to be like if their mum's like this? I don't know.

My concern right now: following last night, she wants to get into bed with me again. But my heart is confused by so many questions..



MEM11363 said:


> You cannot tolerate or encourage a pattern of monsterous behavior and then claim to be surprised when one morning you wake up and realize you are with a monster.
> 
> You have a huge hill to climb. Basically you are going to need to completely reverse the 4 year pattern of your W not taking you seriously and not being respectful of you or your needs.
> 
> Personally I think your best shot at that is going to require you to change in a big, big way.
> 
> - It is TOTALLY toxic for you to express reservations about the marriage at this point. No matter what she does do NOT talk about your "doubts" about whether it is going to work. Pick a timeframe - maybe 90 days - and bring your A game every day. If at the end of that time you decide it isn't working. End it and walk away. In the meantime you are "all in" until the day you are "all out".
> 
> Over time she will either come to feel happy by making you happy. Or she won't. If she doesn't - walk away. If she does, hang in there. She won't be able to hide that, and ultimately it is the truest form of love. And yes - that will translate into sexual behavior. But what should really happen is that her overall behavior is the same in and out of bed.


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## MEM2020

Why do you think she cares about you "infinitely" when she treated the things YOU care so much about so badly for so long:
1. your parents (that one is really ugly because the effort is fairly minimal given the amount of time she interacts with them)
2. your sexual desires
3. your need for sleep
4. your desire for a clean space
5. your need to be treated with minimal respect in public

Akcroy,
In the "movies" it is the fervent "declaration of love" that symbolizes how the characters feel about each other. In real life it is all the "day to day" choices they make. 

My guess is that your W is very persuasive and verbally skilled. She gives you some sexual energy and "talks" to you romantically of love. 

Really though, her actions and your statement are incredibly out of whack. It is nice that she is making an effort in bed. If you can get that same consistent effort in and out of bed you will get to a better place. 

I imagine that this sexual attention - since it has been so long in coming - is likely causing you to mostly overlook any other "bad" behavior. If you do so, you are on the path to ruin. A woman cannot sustain desire for a man she doesn't respect. And your W needs her man to "DEMAND" respect since she often does not give it voluntarily. 

I notice you are not commenting on the suggestion for you to be less outwardly emotional. THAT is as critical to the marriage as any other single thing you can do. 




akcroy said:


> Hi MEM11363, that was really helpful! Thank you.
> 
> I don't think I woke up one morning and found out I was living with a monster. I think everything took off in light speed when my parents were here to visit - despite her behaviour over the years, I had never dreamed that she would treat them like that, or that anybody could be that rude with anybody coming to visit. I guess that was my last straw.
> 
> I agree that it's an uphill task because of the faults - both her and mine - over the years. But it's the moments when everything works well - they're so beautiful - that I keep having faith that our marriage will work. Plus, she does care about me infinitely.. although not enough to treat the people I love with minimum respect.
> 
> There, did you see that? That was my resentment, my reservations about her capacity for sincereness on spontaneous display. I didn't even think of writing that, I was just typing the previous line and that part sort of naturally followed. She seems to become a completely different person if she's talking to somebody she doesn't care for, and however hard she's trying now I can't shake off the feeling that the only reason she's doing all this is because she's scared of losing me. Not because she has a shred of feeling for the somebody in question.
> 
> Am I sure I want to live with somebody like that for the rest of my life? What are my kids going to be like if their mum's like this? I don't know.
> 
> My concern right now: following last night, she wants to get into bed with me again. But my heart is confused by so many questions..


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## akcroy

Hi, no it's not her verbal skills and certainly not sexual desire on my part. Something strange happens to me when we get intimate, or even when I'm masturbating while thinking of her - my mind drifts off. I find myself visualizing people, places, memories, ideas.. everything non-erotically, of course. It's the way she looks at me, her body language that affirms her affections. 

I forgot the outward emotional part - I am barely emotional outwardly these days, for a long time now actually. Kind of happened naturally.

Another thing I forgot to mention - I really, really hate wasting food. IMHO we both come from a very poor country, and we should know better. But our fridge is always full of stuff that she buys and then forgets about. Takeout dinners go stale, as do things she has cooked. If she doesn't feel like eating something, she won't. 

Case in point: her father literally traveled all over the city to find her favourite sweets, and sent them to us via my parents when they came to visit. She didn't like the way they tasted, apparently the shop's quality had gone down, and the whole packet of sweets just went bad. 

They weren't bad to eat or anything, they just weren't the same as before. Considering how incredibly hard her father had to try to even get them, is it wrong of me to feel extremely appalled that she let the whole damn thing rot? I mean, she could have even them off to our friends and relatives here! She didn't.

It is not that I'm obsessed about not wasting food, and I myself end up doing it sometimes too - everybody does. But it's amazing how she doesn't care at all about it. Given our backgrounds, that is, and the added fact that her mother's side were literally starving at one point for poverty. The primary problem I have with her is that she lacks emotional accountability.


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## akcroy

Hi, thank you and update: things are a lot better now. Since I want to make this marriage work, I have decided not to pick on past topics and have tried to live the "at least forget if not forgive" motto. This seems to have worked.

We haven't had sex yet, although there's definitely more sensuality in the air. She talks to my parents voluntarily pretty much whenever I do while she's at home. Although she has never called my parents on her own yet; but I'm not going to be picky about these things.

She is trying hard but we both have a long way to go. Up till yesterday we had had an uninterrupted run of non-conflict - i.e. we didn't have a single argument or anything. 

But yesterday we went to do some shopping and she decided to get a pair of khakis that were too big for her (it was the smallest non-petite size). I told her a couple of times that she could hurt herself tripping over the pants, and she took offense. But it was a genuine concern.

We kinda had a brief, but very intense argument in the vein of our earlier arguments. She said she didn't want to go home with me and threatened to walk off. I pointed out that she was being unfair and over-reacting, but gave her threat the cold shoulder. When we started walking in different directions, she almost immediately started following me, came up to me and apologized.

An apology coming from her is a huge thing - she hates admitting she's wrong about anything - and I think this shows that she's trying.

Later on in the evening we went to a different store and got the same/similar pair of khakis in petite size.

However, if you may remember I tend to get turned off by our arguments and get headaches. That continues up to now (almost 20 hours have passed). Last night I was so quiet that while watching a movie together at home she started crying, saying "you don't want to live with me, don't you?" I denied it, made her stop crying and then we both enjoyed the movie together.

@Pandakiss, she loathes self-help books with a passion.

We are yet to see a marriage counselor or sex therapist - I had asked her to make an appointment on our behalf, and she seems to have forgotten about it. Anyway, things seem to be working out now. 

But my inability to handle relationship stress situations are worrying me. I haven't been able to masturbate since our argument, and there are the headaches.

Should I see a shrink?


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## MEM2020

Regarding the pants - you politely tell her once you think she will trip. And that is it. If she wants them - let her get them. If she does trip - she will learn. 

You cannot possibly treat her like a child and have a good outcome. 

And YES you handled the "conflict" well - but frankly it was a conflict that should never have happened. 

Whether she "smiles" at folks on the phone or wears long pants is up to her. FIGHT about the stuff that MATTERS. Let everything else go.




akcroy said:


> Hi, thank you and update: things are a lot better now. Since I want to make this marriage work, I have decided not to pick on past topics and have tried to live the "at least forget if not forgive" motto. This seems to have worked.
> 
> We haven't had sex yet, although there's definitely more sensuality in the air. She talks to my parents voluntarily pretty much whenever I do while she's at home. Although she has never called my parents on her own yet; but I'm not going to be picky about these things.
> 
> She is trying hard but we both have a long way to go. Up till yesterday we had had an uninterrupted run of non-conflict - i.e. we didn't have a single argument or anything.
> 
> But yesterday we went to do some shopping and she decided to get a pair of khakis that were too big for her (it was the smallest non-petite size). I told her a couple of times that she could hurt herself tripping over the pants, and she took offense. But it was a genuine concern.
> 
> We kinda had a brief, but very intense argument in the vein of our earlier arguments. She said she didn't want to go home with me and threatened to walk off. I pointed out that she was being unfair and over-reacting, but gave her threat the cold shoulder. When we started walking in different directions, she almost immediately started following me, came up to me and apologized.
> 
> An apology coming from her is a huge thing - she hates admitting she's wrong about anything - and I think this shows that she's trying.
> 
> Later on in the evening we went to a different store and got the same/similar pair of khakis in petite size.
> 
> However, if you may remember I tend to get turned off by our arguments and get headaches. That continues up to now (almost 20 hours have passed). Last night I was so quiet that while watching a movie together at home she started crying, saying "you don't want to live with me, don't you?" I denied it, made her stop crying and then we both enjoyed the movie together.
> 
> @Pandakiss, she loathes self-help books with a passion.
> 
> We are yet to see a marriage counselor or sex therapist - I had asked her to make an appointment on our behalf, and she seems to have forgotten about it. Anyway, things seem to be working out now.
> 
> But my inability to handle relationship stress situations are worrying me. I haven't been able to masturbate since our argument, and there are the headaches.
> 
> Should I see a shrink?


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## akcroy

Thanks again for the feedback. 

@MEM11363, I'll keep that in mind. I don't mean to treat her like a child, and she's usually the childish one anyway. Like, she decided to get the khakis _after_ she had got a pair for me. It all seemed so impulsive, she wanted one almost simply because I did. She usually is an impulsive buyer. I have my financial concerns here, we don't earn that much money that she can buy a couple of dresses every month, which she does. Now she wants to return the khakis because she doesn't like them. 

Keeping the past away from my current thoughts is the challenge I constantly face, and whenever we have an argument everything comes flooding back in. 

@Pandakiss, I still think she's going to take it the wrong way if I suggest books, plus things seem to be improving anyway.


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## akcroy

Sometimes we connect, sometimes we don't. The ghosts of old creep up on us, and sometimes we aren't even surprised.


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## akcroy

I hope someone is still listening. I was secretly hoping I'd never have to post on this thread again, but it seems the gods are against me.

I love my wife very much, and go to great lengths to make her happy. E.g. I remember to buy her favourite cooking magazines, sometimes even buying ones she hasn't read, just in case they catch her fancy. 

I am by no means rich, and she earns marginally more than me - in short we're a young couple who are both young professionals. This is the point in our lives when we finally have some financial stability and should start planning for the future - e.g. start saving to buy some property, think of kids, etc. Despite that, we spend an insane amount of money eating out, and she seldom restrains herself from buying clothes almost every week. I never object to these things, I just want her to be happy. Heck, sometimes I even encourage her.

Her parents aren't doing well - her father is jobless and her mother a housewife. Frankly it's what my wife sends her family each month that pretty much keeps them afloat. I always respect and encourage that. But what I can't understand is, for somebody whose parents are in financial crisis, how can she bear to spend so much on clothes, eating out, etc? 

It's the 18th today, and she has only cooked twice this month - out of which once was for a day we had invited some friends over. We rarely eat home-cooked food. And she lets an insane amount of food go bad in the fridge.

I just don't get her.

We are yet to have sex, although we're somewhat physically more intimate. I had asked her to arrange a counseling session for the two of us - I had asked her instead of arranging one myself because I wanted to see how dedicated she was towards fixing our marital crisis. I am still waiting for that session to happen - it's been weeks now.

Not that I have been snooping around her computers or anything, but I can say with confidence that she hasn't even searched for help online, say the way I am here.

She hasn't talked to my parents once online this month yet.

Often she is down, and keeps saying that she feels she is failing in our marriage. I try to cheer her up and talk her off the topic. At first I used to be sympathetic but these days I feel she's being selfish even when she says stuff like that - she just wants my attention, without really deserving it. It feels like a cheap blow.

Today she found out that our bank card didn't have enough cash (had over $100 the last time I checked, which was yesterday - when I had transferred some money to pay our credit card bills). I had forgot to tell her about it - I had an uncommonly painful root canal yesterday and obviously in no shape to think properly.

She held that against me. She called me up when I was really busy at work and not even concentrating on the phone call very well. Actually I didn't realize that she needed money there and then; although there was no way for me to transfer money from our saving accounts from my work. However, she could have done that from an ATM machine.

Anyway, she sounded quite pissed on the phone and hung up. Realizing this I tried calling her repeated but she had shut off her phone. I sent her an SMS but she didn't respond. A few hours later she updated her status on Facebook, saying how bad life sucks.

Upon returning home I charged her why she had talked to me like that over the phone, and she meekly tried to put it on me.

I would have nothing of it, and stomped out of the room.

Story of my day. I don't know where my life is going.


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## anx

She isn't in a good place emotionally right now. Even if she does want to make the marriage work, she may not be able to make the MC appointment. I'm convinced she wants to make your marriage work. Despite not making the MC appointment, it really sounds like she doing the best she knows how to do.

I would suggest that you make the MC appointment. I know you are also hurt and want to see you wife make this step, but I think you should make it and get the ball rolling.

MC is hard and you will both have to do a lot of work in it to be successful, but the great results that can come from it are worth the effort.

I think you have both been hurt by the other person and it sounds like your wife hasn't really told you how she feels. She may have said she is sad about the relationship, but I'm not sure she has told you all the reasons why.

Best of luck


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## Devastate

Hello mate... Hows things now..Do you see any thing improving.. !


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## akcroy

Once again thank you very much for your feedback.

Trust me on this, getting/hunting for relationship how-to books together would absolutely misfire. Note that she can't even pick up the phone and make an MC appointment for us.

A few days ago we had another ugly meltdown - and since then everything has been perfect. I guess we both managed to vent our feelings towards each other. And in the end I proposed that we both stop talking about our past - whether it's something any of us have done towards each other or something any of our family members has done to make the other horrible - which seems to be working. We're both in high spirits and happy. It seems like a future together is going to be possible.

I am mostly worried about myself at this point. I still keep having headaches (literally) over flashbulb recalls of past incidents. I try my best to stick to my promise and leave the past alone, but it's very hard. It's almost like my brain is rejecting my stand on this matter. I'm considering seeing a councilor on my own to address this.

We have tried to have sex, but have been unsuccessful so far. I guess we're both novices and that's playing a huge part. Anyway, there are clear signs of progress in the physical intimacy dept and I'm therefore not really bothered by this. Things will work out, I believe.

My wife is yet to talk to my parents voluntarily. A few days back she made a 60 second cameo appearance on my webcam chat with them. It seems like I'll have to be asking her to talk to them every time, i.e. instead of her ever doing it by herself, for the rest of my life. This isn't something that delights me. But I hope she will realize how much she means to my parents and will come around someday.

I have to admit I'm still quite worried how she'll behave towards my parents when they come to visit me this year. Fingers crossed. One thing I know for sure is that I can't bear the thought of seeing them mistreated as she had last time.

Her parents seem to have realized that our marriage isn't doing so well and now make an effort to communicate with my family and myself, just to keep in touch. Which is nice, but once again I wish they really cared for us - I hate the fact that they're only getting in touch with us now because of our marital woes.

Anyway, despite everything things seem rosy for now. My wife understands full well that we won't be having children anytime soon, at least in a few years. We're both taking a deep breath, or so to speak. So I'm optimistic about everything.

Wish me luck - and you have no idea how helpful you guys have been. Despite not being much of a believer, all I can say from the bottom of my heart is - God bless you all. Thank you.

I'll keep you all posted.


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## akcroy

Thanks for all your feedback. I haven't posted/responded to anything on this forum in a long time. The reason is I wanted to forget my marriage had problems, forget I was miserable. I desperately wanted to see the light at the end of the tunnel. 

In the meanwhile I worked on my relationship from my end as best as I could. I am very patient with my wife, and I don't get ticked off by anything that can potentially erupt into an argument. I know she is the volatile one. 

I have tried being physically intimate with her, and we do smooch and stuff in bed, but alas, we haven't yet had sex since I threatened to leave her. I don't think she understands the gravity of our crisis. I don't pose any reasonable conflict, am patiently waiting for her to turn around but not foregoing reminding her of our issues once in a while - yet she hasn't really done anything about our lack of sex.

She hasn't called up my parents since, too. I don't think she will ever be the type to check on my parents once in a while. I have to ask her to come talk to them online, she agrees but then somehow weasels out. E.g. right now I was supposed to talk to them but my wife, who is back from work, wanted to see her daily soaps first. I agreed, and now that she's done with that she's sleepy. Next I find out she's talking to her colleagues over the phone, responding official emails, etc - she has so much time for herself and her work-related commitments, but she hasn't been able to spare 10 mins to talk to my parents - who she has misbehaved so grossly with.

She is nearly as aloof with her own parents, calling them rarely. Her parents are weird too, they like abstain from my entire family or something, but my wife is just too extreme in lack of aloofness.

Anyway, seems like the future is going to be on her terms - which, of course, I can't agree with. I don't think this relationship will last with so less commitment for my and my family's emotional needs.

The irony of it? She's a good person. If it's possible to be a good person by doing all she has and continues to do, that is.

I love her, but my love is waning.

I had posted another thread in the general section of this forum which I can't find - sorry if I left any of you hanging for my responses.


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## MEM7

There is a simple solution to this. 
Get a divorce. Once apart you will have time to think clearly about this whole situation. Only then can both of you clearly decide if you truly want to be together. You can't decide this from inside the marriage.
Once apart, once you are completely separated from each other, you will know right away if you want to be together.

If you find you are so attracted to each other and so in love at that point, then you can get married again. Or at least live together. 

My hunch is that you will finally realize that you don't want to be with her. There are 7 billion people on earth. You have a very limited time here on earth. Make the best of it. Don't waste your time with this woman. 7 billion people!!! Surely you can find someone more compatible.

Do it now before there are kids involved. Once that happens you are trapped.


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## Angel27

I reached your post while browsing for help with marital issues. I went through all the messages above. I could relate to you on some points. Just keen to know the status of your marriage.


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## condave

give us an update man, how did it workout?


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