# When you THINK your spouse is cheating



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I had a buddy who thought his wife was cheating. This was a while ago. There were some red flags, some of the sort which were really difficult to explain. He took a completely different tack than I have ever seen before. He focused on the behavior that were the red flags. She trickle truthed him. He finally said, look, this is BS. You prove to me that you DIDN'T. I am not going to spend one more second trying to prove you did. Or I am out.

Well, she had. She got the truth smack, and came totally clean. 

Thoughts?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I had a buddy who thought his wife was cheating. This was a while ago. There were some red flags, some of the sort which were really difficult to explain. He took a completely different tack than I have ever seen before. He focused on the behavior that were the red flags. She trickle truthed him. He finally said, look, this is BS. You prove to me that you DIDN'T. I am not going to spend one more second trying to prove you did. Or I am out.
> 
> Well, she had. She got the truth smack, and came totally clean.
> 
> Thoughts?


It's a great idea, but you have to back up and mean what you are saying.
I think that's the only way to move forward. 
Now he can make an informed decision.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

That approach might work only if you're strong enough to carry through with your actions. 

Most can't make a decision which giving an ultimatum without following through is just enabling.

Getting the truth from some would be impossible as well.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

StillSearching said:


> It's a great idea, but you have to back up and mean what you are saying.
> I think that's the only way to move forward.
> Now he can make an informed decision.


Except what if she wasn't? How do you prove a negative?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I don't get it. Why WOULDN'T one follow through?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

How the hell do you prove you DIDNT cheat? (when you actually DID NOT, not when you are TT your partner) I really want to know because I have recently been the victim of false accusations and I resent the hell out of it. 

Your friend has an unusual situation in that his cheater actually came clean when confronted. What were the red flags that put him on alert?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Most people are indecisive.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I too wonder how to prove a negative.

Then again, if I was NOT cheating, I was completely transparent and open, and my spouse STILL was banging on about it or left me.....I'd consider that a win too. Because who wants to be with a spouse who is going to falsely accuse you and not believe the truth?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

attheend02 said:


> Except what if she wasn't? How do you prove a negative?


"I am not going to spend one more second trying to prove you did. Or* I am out*."
This is the optimal statement.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> I had a buddy who thought his wife was cheating. This was a while ago. There were some red flags, some of the sort which were really difficult to explain. He took a completely different tack than I have ever seen before. He focused on the behavior that were the red flags. She trickle truthed him. He finally said, look, this is BS. You prove to me that you DIDN'T. I am not going to spend one more second trying to prove you did. Or I am out.
> 
> Well, she had. She got the truth smack, and came totally clean.
> 
> Thoughts?


I would say he knew damn well that she was cheating but just didn’t have physical evidence.
I knew a finance guy in NY who suspected his then fiancée was cheating (she was).One of his friends had told him about her behavior at a pool party the previous weekend (at his own house) where she was high and horny,and he decided that was that.The guy had been working and stayed at his apartment in Manhattan while she was partying at his house. 
He rung her and told her that he had seen some things on his security system at the house and she needed to get to his apartment immediately and then packed her stuff into some garbage bags. 
When she came back he asked for a minute by minute timeline for the previous weekend and every time she said she couldn’t remember he moved the bags closer to the door. She didn’t know how much he knew so she kept telling him she couldn’t remember because she was drunk and taking coke. It took about ten minutes and then he threw her stuff out the door,took the keys of his house,car and apartment and asked her for the ring. She pleaded with him but he stood firm and dumped her. She never gave him the ring back though.
This was another case of a guy who had never been successful with women suddenly being irresistible,it had nothing to do with his eight figure salary.........


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I can see it backfiring badly. Its impossible to prove you didn't cheat. So if my wife accused me of cheating, I'd have to leave. I would know that I could never be trusted, so how could I spend the rest of my life in a relationship without trust? I don't see how you can ever escape that situation once its created. 

Trust and being trusted matter a great deal to me.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I can see it backfiring badly. Its impossible to prove you didn't cheat. So if my wife accused me of cheating, I'd have to leave. I would know that I could never be trusted, so how could I spend the rest of my life in a relationship without trust? I don't see how you can ever escape that situation once its created.
> 
> Trust and being trusted matter a great deal to me.


The key difference is you aren’t cheating. The woman in this story was and she had no way of knowing how much or how little her boyfriend knew.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> The key difference is you aren’t cheating. The woman in this story was and she had no way of knowing how much or how little her boyfriend knew.


So what is sufficient evidence of not cheating?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

But how could I possibly prove that? I go on multiple business trips each year. How could I possibly prove that I wasn't having sex with coworkers, other people at the meeting, or women I picked up in the hotel bar? How could I prove I'm not having sex with people at work over lunch break? 

Exact same applies to my wife. Either of us could cheat with almost no chance of being caught. All we have to prevent that is trust. 








Andy1001 said:


> The key difference is you aren’t cheating. The woman in this story was and she had no way of knowing how much or how little her boyfriend knew.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I think there are people who won't fold so easily. We've all heard stories of gaslighting that are beyond the pale. Your friend was lucky.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> How the hell do you prove you DIDNT cheat? (when you actually DID NOT, not when you are TT your partner) I really want to know because I have recently been the victim of false accusations and I resent the hell out of it.
> 
> Your friend has an unusual situation in that his cheater actually came clean when confronted. What were the red flags that put him on alert?


Work hours extended suddenly. Very secretive with the phone. Text messages that she would hide...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I can see it backfiring badly. Its impossible to prove you didn't cheat. So if my wife accused me of cheating, I'd have to leave. I would know that I could never be trusted, so how could I spend the rest of my life in a relationship without trust? I don't see how you can ever escape that situation once its created.
> 
> Trust and being trusted matter a great deal to me.


True dat. Bet a dollar if she was acting weird around her phone and you asked, she would hand it to you unlocked.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

A strong confident response can be successful in getting answers but no guarantee without evidence. For her to have confessed from that confrontation probably means that she respected his boldness and his stance that led her to believe he was ready to walk or possibly she was glad to confess because she was tired of hiding and was hoping he could be the bad guy to end the relationship.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I know of someone whose spouse thought they were cheating. This person immediate offered up their phone, email, social media, etc.

The suspicious spouse's response? "This means nothing cause you could just have a burner phone and secret email."

Probably got that idea from forums lol


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Thoughts?



Yeah. Whatever happened to parachute pants? How come people don’t wear them anymore? I might get some. Preferably with flames  

Oh you mean the cheating thing? No idea. Maybe she ‘came clean’ ‘cos she got fed up with him pestering her for information?

If my wife cheated, I would prefer it if she ‘stayed dirty’. As long as she still wanted to **** me. Oh and my duck has to definitely be bigger than the gentleman she was hanky pankying with. Otherwise I’m out.

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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> I had a buddy who thought his wife was cheating. This was a while ago. There were some red flags, some of the sort which were really difficult to explain. He took a completely different tack than I have ever seen before. He focused on the behavior that were the red flags. She trickle truthed him. He finally said, look, this is BS. You prove to me that you DIDN'T. I am not going to spend one more second trying to prove you did. Or I am out.
> 
> Well, she had. She got the truth smack, and came totally clean.
> 
> Thoughts?


In some ways, this is not to much unlike some of the things that we recommend here. 

The most important one being strong action. 

And some would say that if you have to wonder if they are cheating the you should already be divorced, which even for me is a little much. 

But what your friend did was take strong action, "prove me wrong or I am gone". 

That is about the same as file for divorce and have her served. But the things is that LOTS of people cannot get to that point without concrete proof. 

So that is the reason we recommend all the detective work. 

For me, I am different at this stage of my life. If something is off and there is no communication or if you do something shady, you are gone, done, over...

GF knows the rules and she has the same rules herself. So if one of us does something stupid, we both know it is over.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Work hours extended suddenly. Very secretive with the phone. Text messages that she would hide...


what si your friend planning to do now that he knows.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Lostinthought61 said:


> what si your friend planning to do now that he knows.


This is quite some time ago. They reconciled.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Yeah. Given our backgrounds, my wife and I trying to catch each other cheating would become a sort of amusing (but tragic) spy vs spy sort of game. 

Its possible to catch someone cheating, but I can't imagine a way to know that they are not. 




personofinterest said:


> I know of someone whose spouse thought they were cheating. This person immediate offered up their phone, email, social media, etc.
> 
> The suspicious spouse's response? "This means nothing cause you could just have a burner phone and secret email."
> 
> Probably got that idea from forums lol


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> I had a buddy who thought his wife was cheating. This was a while ago. There were some red flags, some of the sort which were really difficult to explain. He took a completely different tack than I have ever seen before. He focused on the behavior that were the red flags. She trickle truthed him. He finally said, look, this is BS. You prove to me that you DIDN'T. I am not going to spend one more second trying to prove you did. Or I am out.
> 
> Well, she had. She got the truth smack, and came totally clean.
> 
> Thoughts?


He provided no opportunity for lies — only the truth.

All too often we ask the wrong questions — i.e. “Did you do X?” vs “Why did you do X?”

The same tactic can be applied to children as well.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> but you have to back up and mean what you are saying.


This is where most fail. Hollow threats of "I'm outta here" or "I want a divorce" are a really bad move. If you don't follow through then you're in an even weaker position than before. That applies to many things in life. My wife has wondered so many times over the years why all of our kids blow her off when she asks something of them or they back talk her yet they do none of those things to me. It's really simple. Her threats were always hollow, mine were not. If you pushed it to where dad needed to get up and come deal with you then it was too late to bargain at that point. Your ass was mine. They were smart kids so they never pushed it with me like they did, and still do, their mother.

"I'm outta here" and "I want a divorce" only works if you follow through. The very first time you don't it becomes a hollow threat and the cheater now controls the situation.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I don’t understand the mantra of “only if you come clean is reconciliation possible”.
Reconciliation is only possible if the BS doesn’t dump the WS and the WS starts giving a shot about the marriage and stops messing around.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> I don’t understand the mantra of “only if you come clean is reconciliation possible”.
> Reconciliation is only possible if the BS doesn’t dump the WS and the WS starts giving a shot about the marriage and stops messing around.


...and having the truth is often a determining factor for a BS when deciding whether or not to dump his or her WS.

You’re an odd duck, aren’t you?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> I don’t understand the mantra of “only if you come clean is reconciliation possible”.
> Reconciliation is only possible if the BS doesn’t dump the WS and the WS starts giving a shot about the marriage and stops messing around.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well the truth is the WS has already dumped the BS, by their actions.
So.." the mantra of “only if you come clean is reconciliation possible”." means since you (WS) has already left the marriage.
You (WS) will have to prove to me that I really know who you are, and you show me YOU know who you are, by coming clean, so I (BS) can make an informed decision.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> I don’t understand the mantra of “only if you come clean is reconciliation possible”.
> *Reconciliation is only possible if the BS doesn’t dump the WS and the WS starts giving a shot about the marriage and stops messing around.*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All evidence to the contrary.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> You (WS) will have to prove to me that I really know who you are, and you show me YOU know who you are, by coming clean, so I (BS) can make an informed decision.



Nobody knows who they are. Telling the truth is just doing what the BS wants the WS to do. 
I’m not saying one shouldn’t be honest. Just that it’s a bit too late for honesty and if you are really sure you are not going to do it again, I would just swallow it, pardon the pun, and get it on with.




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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> All evidence to the contrary.



What evidence? You mean that the WS should not give a shot in order for reconciliation to succeed?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> What evidence? You mean that the WS should not give a shot in order for reconciliation to succeed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know what "give a shot" means. But I know plenty of people reconcile without the bs dumping the ws.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> ...and having the truth is often a determining factor for a BS when deciding whether or not to dump his or her WS.


Explain. Are there any BS’s who reconciled and who are glad that their WS told them? Don’t they wish they never knew? I know I would.
The deciding factor whether you reconcile or not reconcile has nothing to do whether you know the full truth. It depends partly on personality of the BS and partly on circumstances (eg how expensive it is going to be to divorce). 





GusPolinski said:


> You’re an odd duck, aren’t you?



Quack



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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I know of someone whose spouse thought they were cheating. This person immediate offered up their phone, email, social media, etc.
> 
> The suspicious spouse's response? "This means nothing cause you could just have a burner phone and secret email."
> 
> Probably got that idea from forums lol


Or my Ex.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't know what "give a shot" means. But I know plenty of people reconcile without the bs dumping the ws.



I never said people don’t reconcile in those circumstances. I said people reconcile successfully, mostly because the WS starts giving a sh1t about the marriage (sorry, autocorrect). In that case, maybe it’s not necessary to hurt them even more with the truth.
Doesn’t matter. 


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> Explain. Are there any BS’s who reconciled and who are glad that their WS told them? Don’t they wish they never knew? I know I would.
> The detaining factor whether you reconcile or not reconcile has nothing to do whether you know the full truth. It depends partly on personality of the BS and partly on circumstances (eg how expensive it is going to be to divorce).


How can you make any kind of educated decision on whether to go through the pain of trying to reconcile if you dont have the whole truth? You wont have any idea WHAT it is that you are forgiving or reconciling over, or really, even who your WS really is, for that matter.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> *Nobody knows who they are.* Telling the truth is just doing what the BS wants the WS to do.
> I’m not saying one shouldn’t be honest. Just that it’s a bit too late for honesty and if you are really sure you are not going to do it again, I would just swallow it, pardon the pun, and get it on with.
> 
> 
> ...


What I meant by who you are is, I don't think that you have any insight whatsoever into your capacity for good until you have some well-developed insight into your capacity for evil. 
So understanding that, the WS would know who they are, and could show the BS their capacity for good. 

You find out who you are by searching the dark side of your heart.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> I never said people don’t reconcile in those circumstances.


Nope. You surely didn't. That does not mean that I did not read it wrong! Sorry.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> How can you make any kind of educated decision on whether to go through the pain of trying to reconcile if you dont have the whole truth? You wont have any idea WHAT it is that you are forgiving or reconciling over, or really, even who your WS really is, for that matter.



I know this is controversial (quack quack)...But I think the whole ‘truth and nothing but the truth’ just gives out an ILLUSION that it is the BS who is calling the shots or has some kind of control over the situation. And it’s just a kind of ritual. The mind movies will never stop, the dynamic will change forever and the trust will always remain broken, even if the BS ‘forgives’...

In real life, a lot more people get over the spouse’s **** ups than they let you believe on forums...In those circumstances, I would prefer not to know the truth and just skip the pain... If it’s a repetitive matter, then my wife is probably out of control and probably wants to leave and be caught in which case she should just tell me that she wants to leave and be done with it...



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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

^^ Kinda out of scope for this thread though since I was thinking of the case where the cat is already half out of the bag.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> What I meant by who you are is, I don't think that you have any insight whatsoever into your capacity for good until you have some well-developed insight into your capacity for evil.
> 
> So understanding that, the WS would know who they are, and could show the BS their capacity for good.
> 
> ...



I am not sure it’s to do with dark or bright sides...I just think that, being partly animals, the instinct to copulate in humans is very strong. Plus having mindless sex with someone is by far not the most evil thing one can do to the spouse. I don’t want to minimise it for others who had a rough time with it. I read that some people rate it worse than cancer.
I think it depends; each situation is unique.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> ^^ Kinda out of scope for this thread though since I was thinking of the case where the cat is already half out of the bag.



Yeah then it’s probably better to just admit the **** up. But does ‘come clean’ mean tell all the details or just that some form of infidelity occurred?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> Yeah then it’s probably better to just admit the **** up. But does ‘come clean’ mean tell all the details or just that some form of infidelity occurred?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It means whatever the BS wants to know. If they ask who, you tell them. If they ask where, you tell them. If they ask which way "it" curves, you tell them.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> It means whatever the BS wants to know. If they ask who, you tell them. If they ask where, you tell them. If they ask which way "it" curves, you tell them.




These are pretty pathetic questions, sorry to say...The only question that will matter is the ‘why’, and to that, they will never get the answer.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

InMyPrime said:


> I am not sure it’s to do with dark or bright sides...I just think that, being partly animals, the instinct to copulate in humans is very strong. Plus having mindless sex with someone is by far not the most evil thing one can do to the spouse. I don’t want to minimise it for others who had a rough time with it. I read that some people rate it worse than cancer.
> I think it depends; each situation is unique.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am of the opinion that a spouse cheating and a subsequent divorce is far worse than them dying - you get your kids full time, no child support, never have to see them again, plus maybe some comforting life insurance money.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sometimes there is a "why". Sometimes its something the BS has been told many times but has never heard. Other times is not something the BS wants to here. Other times there is no reason except a lack of self control. 




InMyPrime said:


> These are pretty pathetic questions, sorry to say...The only question that will matter is the ‘why’, and to that, they will never get the answer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It depends on the person. 
Lets say my wife were on a business trip and her plane crashed, killing everyone. If I discovered later that the trip was a fake and she was seeing a lover and was alive and well, I would be relieved beyond words. 






OnTheRocks said:


> I am of the opinion that a spouse cheating and a subsequent divorce is far worse than them dying - you get your kids full time, no child support, never have to see them again, plus maybe some comforting life insurance money.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Sometimes there is a "why". Sometimes its something the BS has been told many times but has never heard. Other times is not something the BS wants to here. Other times there is no reason except a lack of self control.



The point is: the WS can provide the most perfect explanation ever, but in my mind it will still be worthless since there is no way to tell whether I’m told something that I want to hear or if it is something that my spouse really felt. I would rather just not know than live for the rest of my life with all these doubts in my head.

I can tell it from little things: if my wife accidentally hurts me with something (minor, compared with infidelity) then apologises and I push for an explanation of wtf was she thinking: in the end I get that ‘perfect’ explanation. Even though I know she wasn’t thinking...Some things don’t need to have a reason but people are not wired to accept it. So it’s easier to invent reasons to make something more acceptable.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

uhtred said:


> It depends on the person.
> 
> Lets say my wife were on a business trip and her plane crashed, killing everyone. If I discovered later that the trip was a fake and she was seeing a lover and was alive and well, I would be relieved beyond words.



Haha, because you could then put her on a plane and fly it into a mountain yourself? 
(I can’t remember if it’s you who is into flying planes). Or because it turns out that she actually likes sex?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

How did this thread turn into being about reconciling??


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Awesome of a pilot that I am, I don't know how to crash just one side of an airplane.....

More seriously though, I think my reaction to discovering my wife cheating would not be that traumatic. Mostly it would make me re-evaluate my belief in my ability to judge people. I might want a divorce, might not - but most of my thoughts would be more of the "wow, I really was stupid" sort of thing. I want to know why just out of deep curiosity since I can't think of a reason she would. 







InMyPrime said:


> Haha, because you could then put her on a plane and fly it into a mountain yourself?
> (I can’t remember if it’s you who is into flying planes).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> ^^ Kinda out of scope for this thread though since I was thinking of the case where the cat is already half out of the bag.


 I expect your buddy didn't have much doubt about what was going on. He was in a ****ty kind of win/win. The cat was probably all the way out of the bag for him. Props to him for how he handled it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> Explain. Are there any BS’s who reconciled and who are glad that their WS told them? Don’t they wish they never knew? I know I would.
> 
> The deciding factor whether you reconcile or not reconcile has nothing to do whether you know the full truth. It depends partly on personality of the BS and partly on circumstances (eg how expensive it is going to be to divorce).


Neither “staying together” nor “not divorcing” means reconciling. _Reconciling_ means reconciling, and you can’t do that without the absolute truth.

IOW, no one has ever reconciled without the truth. Plenty of people rugsweep without it, though.

And _expensive_?

LOL. **** that. I’ll make more money.



InMyPrime said:


> Quack


Kinda my point.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> I would say he knew damn well that she was cheating but just didn’t have physical evidence.
> I knew a finance guy in NY who suspected his then fiancée was cheating (she was).One of his friends had told him about her behavior at a pool party the previous weekend (at his own house) where she was high and horny,and he decided that was that.The guy had been working and stayed at his apartment in Manhattan while she was partying at his house.
> He rung her and told her that he had seen some things on his security system at the house and she needed to get to his apartment immediately and then packed her stuff into some garbage bags.
> When she came back he asked for a minute by minute timeline for the previous weekend and every time she said she couldn’t remember he moved the bags closer to the door. She didn’t know how much he knew so she kept telling him she couldn’t remember because she was drunk and taking coke. It took about ten minutes and then he threw her stuff out the door,took the keys of his house,car and apartment and asked her for the ring. She pleaded with him but he stood firm and dumped her. She never gave him the ring back though.
> This was another case of a guy who had never been successful with women suddenly being irresistible,it had nothing to do with his eight figure salary.........


I'll never understand why wealthy men think getting married is wise.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BruceBanner said:


> I'll never understand why wealthy men think getting married is wise.


Guess you could just ask @Andy1001.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

@Faithful Wife I don’t know about anyone else.I just like wedding cake.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

BruceBanner said:


> I'll never understand why wealthy men think getting married is wise.


Ever been 55?


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