# Need reality check - GF hotel with ex



## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Hi guys,

I'm brand new here. I will try to make this as brief as possible. I need a reality check. I'm 42 (ex)gf is 41. Even though I broke up with her over this I will still refer to her as GF in this post. Here is what has happened:

We've been together for almost 2 years. My GF really likes the band Phish. She's seen them over 100 times. Her and her soon to be ex-husband use to travel around to see the band (she is in the final phase of her divorce). I'm not particularly fond of the band but I told her I would go to a show with her (to make her happy). We would have to travel a bit (not much, a few hours) to see the show. She has family where the show is being played. I assumed one or two nights (we're going to a concert). It then turned into 5 or 6 nights staying over at various peoples' homes. I was not okay with that. I put my foot down to no more than 2 nights. She was not okay with that and said she would go by herself. She also treated me pretty badly after that to the point where I had to leave her place and go home. I couldn't tolerate being talked to and treated the way she was treating me any longer even after I tried to let her cool down and lighten the mood.

Now, her soon to be ex husband (whom she has 2 children with) is also going to the show. He still goes to see them whenever he can. I met her ex for a total of about 30 minutes over 3 brief interactions. He is a really good guy and a good dad. I have no problem with him whatsoever.

I get a call from my GF saying that she is going to go to the show with him. They are going to go to 2 concerts back to back. She asked if I wanted to go and that I could get a ride with him home so I would only have to be there for 2 nights. She talked about staying at her friends house (which didn't pan out), staying at her dad's place (who she doesn't seem to like and hopes that he gets a hotel when he visits her soon rather than staying at her place), and staying at one of my relative's place (who I haven't talked to in a year). She then mentioned getting a hotel and that we could have a nice romantic weekend and enjoy the city. This entire plan had changed so much that I said no. It was all too convoluted and too much for me. I agreed to go to one show, not two.

That's the background. Here is what led me to end the relationship and here is where I need a reality check. I saw her email, it was logged in on my computer. I saw an email that she booked a hotel reservation with her soon to be ex husband for two nights for the show they are going together. She never mentioned that part to me before booking. We never had a discussion about it. Even though I like the guy, I'm not okay with her not talking to me about it first and even if she did I would not be okay with that.

I told her that I saw the email. I know she was never going to tell me that the two of them got a room together. When her and I talked about it she seemed hell bent on not getting a hotel (I actually suggested getting one in our first talk about it). They will also be dropping the children off at his parent's as they live in the area. She did not apologize for not including me in her decision making and seems to be mad at me because I didn't want to go to this event.

There are other things that have happened in the past that I won't get into. I think I'm dealing with a completely self-absorbed person here that will justify doing anything they want as long as her needs are met. When I talked to her and tried to tell her that I feel that what she did was inappropriate and that in a healthy, respectful relationship those are things that need to be discussed before pulling the trigger on making a plan like that. She figuratively put her hands over her ears as she raised her volume to drown me out, not listening or hearing what I was trying to talk about.

So, I'm I wrong for being upset? Am I out of touch with reality and wrong for not doing something that I don't want to do? I feel like I'm losing my mind over things like this? Have I?

Thank you so much to anyone that reads this longer than intended post.


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

You are not wrong for being upset that your now-ex GF got a hotel room with her STBX? husband... Does this mean you were dating her while they were separated and they are not divorced yet? Like I'm sure they could spin it like "economical" or something but if you're not shagging, and you used to, you probably shouldn't be sharing a hotel room unless it was the only one left.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I would have dumped her too. Move on. Plenty of fish out there. 

Keep her on the side for a Saturday night hookup until you're back in a serious relationship. That's about all she's worth.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

@growing_weary

Yes, they were still married but legally separated. They both live in separate places and he has a GF.
@GuyInColorado

I think that's exactly what I needed to hear. Although, I really do care about this woman and the last few days have really been tough on me. However, I know that after her selfish tactics in the past and what I'm now learning may be emotional abuse in the form of manipulation, that I need to fortify my self respect. Up until this relationship I would never tolerate the type of behavior that I have. I think there may be a cluster B personality disorder on her part that has really beat me down. Those things will do that to even the strongest man, I guess that's why I'm questioning my decision to end the relationship. She can talk her way out of a paper bag it seems.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

no, it sounds like your making the right choice.

poor boundaries. cut it off early or be ready for a life of grief.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> I would have dumped her too. Move on. Plenty of fish out there.
> 
> Keep her on the side for a Saturday night hookup until you're back in a serious relationship. That's about all she's worth.


I agree with this. Just move on.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Not even taking into consideration the hotel share with her... husband... (which is completely unacceptable) I'd let this one go solely over the hands over the ears while you were trying to discuss something with her.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Separated ain't divorced. She has been with you for nearly 2 years plenty of time to go from separated to divorced. So, really, she's going to a concert with her husband and then they'll be sharing a hotel room for a couple nights.

Yeah, you did the right thing. They clearly have unfinished business.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

She is 41 years old and going to Phish concerts like that? That seems ridiculous to me, but whatever.

You're right to dump her over this. Don't feel bad. Plenty of other phish in the sea, so go find yourself a mature one who isn't still married to someone else.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

AmICrazy43 said:


> So, I'm I wrong for being upset? Am I out of touch with reality and wrong for not doing something that I don't want to do? I feel like I'm losing my mind over things like this? Have I?
> 
> Thank you so much to anyone that reads this longer than intended post.


While I agree with the other posters that sharing a room with her soon to be ex-husband is grounds to end your relationship, I also think that you didn't handle some things very well. In a future relationship with a better girlfriend, if she changes her plans and tries to make it possible for you to join her, I recommend being more flexible. Secondly, if your girlfriend really wanted to see her favorite band two nights, instead of the originally mentioned one night, I recommend for your sake that you be more understanding and go with her both nights. 

My criticisms are meant to be friendly and based only on one short post. And of course worth the amount you just paid for it.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like they're still into each other, and one of the manyyyy reasons you don't date someone until they're officially divorced. That said, I've read stories on here where people are still hanging out and going places with exes. lol Don't know why people split up if they're still into each other? It's like they don't want to let go of the person, but they don't want to live with the person. Idk.

I think you're right to break things off, for many reasons, not just the reasons you name. She sounds like she's still into her ex by her actions. I'd go no contact, to save yourself from going back to her, only to break up with her again...and again...


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Steve1000 said:


> While I agree with the other posters that sharing a room with her soon to be ex-husband is grounds to end your relationship, I also think that you didn't handle some things very well. In a future relationship with a better girlfriend, if she changes her plans and tries to make it possible for you to join her, I recommend being more flexible. Secondly, if your girlfriend really wanted to see her favorite band two nights, instead of the originally mentioned one night, I recommend for your sake that you be more understanding and go with her both nights.
> 
> My criticisms are meant to be friendly and based only on one short post. And of course worth the amount you just paid for it.


I totally appreciate everything you've said. I guess this is the part that's making me question things. From my perspective, this plan changed too many times and put me out of my comfort zone. I feel that I tried to compromise by agreeing to going to 1 show. Things like this have happened in the past where I will agree to one thing and then the goal posts get moved on me. My compromise then becomes doing everything she wants to do. 

Again, I appreciate your post. So you think I should have agreed to going to both shows (which I think I would rather pull my fingernails out with rusty pliers)? I hope you're not a phish fan (if so, no disrespect).


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

She definitely sounds like she's got BPD personality disorder going on... if she diagnosed as a narcissistic or BPD you can't win with them. They don't ever change and there's no care for them. If she's not afflicted with any of those personality disorders then she just really immature and selfish and self-centered to the core. Bottom line she's not a good candidate for a relationship. You did the right thing by breaking up with her big time.!you need to go NC (no contact). I'm surprised you made it through two years with her. At her age carrying on about a ban oh my God, and she has kids.! wow poor children. Then we wonder where all these messed up people come from.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Sparta said:


> She definitely sounds like she's got BPD personality disorder going on... if she diagnosed as a narcissistic or BPD you can't win with them. They don't ever change and there's no care for them. If she's not afflicted with any of those personality disorders then she just really immature and selfish and self-centered to the core. Bottom line she's not a good candidate for a relationship. You did the right thing by breaking up with her big time.!you need to go NC (no contact). I'm surprised you made it through two years with her. At her age carrying on about a ban oh my God, and she has kids.! wow poor children. Then we wonder where all these messed up people come from.


It's funny you say that. I've actually done a lot of research over the last few days about disorders and BPD really stuck out to me. I looked up stuff to see if there is anything wrong with me as well as with her. She really fits the mold for BPD (low end of the spectrum though). From what I gather from her brother in law, she really manipulated her stxh, got him the way she wanted him to be, and then kicked him to the curb. The thing is, people with a cluster B disorder really dig into your mind and make you question your own sanity, which is why I'm here. Part of me feels like I've blown this all out of proportion but my gut tells me to run away and to not let anyone disrespect me, my boundaries, and my emotions in a way that is totally inappropriate.

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

AmICrazy43 said:


> I totally appreciate everything you've said. I guess this is the part that's making me question things. From my perspective, this plan changed too many times and put me out of my comfort zone. I feel that I tried to compromise by agreeing to going to 1 show. Things like this have happened in the past where I will agree to one thing and then the goal posts get moved on me. My compromise then becomes doing everything she wants to do.
> 
> Again, I appreciate your post. So you think I should have agreed to going to both shows (which I think I would rather pull my fingernails out with rusty pliers)? I hope you're not a phish fan (if so, no disrespect).


I think @Steve1000 may have misunderstood. I got the impression that she asked you to go, but her plans kept changing and you decided to skip the trip because of the instability involved. In other words, she wasn't being accommodating so much as she was being a flake.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> I think @Steve1000 may have misunderstood. I got the impression that she asked you to go, but her plans kept changing and you decided to skip the trip because of the instability involved. In other words, she wasn't being accommodating so much as she was being a flake.


Initially she mentioned how she wanted to see the band since they were coming somewhat to the area and she hadn't seen them in a couple of years. Knowing she likes the band so much I told her that if she wanted to see them that I would go with her to a show. I figured, we're going to a concert and because of the distance we would be spending the night in that area. It then turned into her assuming we would stay there for a week because some of her family and friends live there. That is not what I agreed to.

From there, I set the 2 day boundary but she didn't go for that and said she would just go by herself. From there, since her bff in the area wouldn't go with her, the plan changed again. It went from a 1 night show to a 2 night show. The goal posts kept changing and I stuck to my initial boundary and simply said, "this is all too all over the place for me. It's too convoluted and I'm not doing that." This has happened with other things in the past and I felt I really needed to stick to my boundaries.

I hope that makes more sense?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

AmICrazy43 said:


> Initially she mentioned how she wanted to see the band since they were coming somewhat to the area and she hadn't seen them in a couple of years. Knowing she likes the band so much I told her that if she wanted to see them that I would go with her to a show. I figured, we're going to a concert and because of the distance we would be spending the night in that area. It then turned into her assuming we would stay there for a week because some of her family and friends live there. That is not what I agreed to.
> 
> From there, I set the 2 day boundary but she didn't go for that and said she would just go by herself. From there, since her bff in the area wouldn't go with her, the plan changed again. It went from a 1 night show to a 2 night show. The goal posts kept changing and I stuck to my initial boundary and simply said, "this is all too all over the place for me. It's too convoluted and I'm not doing that." This has happened with other things in the past and I felt I really needed to stick to my boundaries.
> 
> I hope that makes more sense?


Yeah, as I said, she didn't keep changing plans to accommodate you. If she had changed plans to accommodate you, she'd have agreed to the one show, one night compromise you offered. 

Just out of curiosity, why isn't she divorced? Have they filed for divorce and are waiting on the courts? It makes no sense she and her husband can plan out of town trips to concerts, but can't seem to finalize their divorce.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> Yeah, as I said, she didn't keep changing plans to accommodate you. If she had changed plans to accommodate you, she'd have agreed to the one show, one night compromise you offered.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why isn't she divorced? Have they filed for divorce and are waiting on the courts? It makes no sense she and her husband can plan out of town trips to concerts, but can't seem to finalize their divorce.


They finally went to divorce court about a month ago. From what I gather it will be another couple of months before it is finalized. A girl he dated (he's not with her now) and myself both were not comfortable with them being married. I had told her for a while that it was a little weird that they were still married given their situation and that I really wasn't too comfortable with it. I think they were procrastinating. 

One reason she gave was they could save money because of a lawyer cost (which they didn't even need to use in the end) and that they had a good setup. Basically split custody with him giving her X amount of money every month. I think he was probably a little afraid that the setup would change and he would have to pay more money than what they had already agreed upon and had been doing right along.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

AmICrazy43 said:


> I totally appreciate everything you've said. I guess this is the part that's making me question things. From my perspective, this plan changed too many times and put me out of my comfort zone. I feel that I tried to compromise by agreeing to going to 1 show. Things like this have happened in the past where I will agree to one thing and then the goal posts get moved on me. My compromise then becomes doing everything she wants to do.
> 
> Again, I appreciate your post. So you think I should have agreed to going to both shows (which I think I would rather pull my fingernails out with rusty pliers)? I hope you're not a phish fan (if so, no disrespect).


First of all, you're in luck. I'm not a Phish fan. Only you know the dynamics of your relationship. If you feel that in general you haven't been too rigid and that your girlfriend has a history of moving the goal posts on you, then your reaction may have been appropriate. Had she been willing to try to incorporate your interests into her life as well? 

While it's crucial to be flexible in any relationship, you'll need to decide whether you and any girlfriend are just too different. 

Finally, she doesn't seem to be stable enough to be in a new serious relationship. You might second guess yourself for causing your girlfriend to book a room with her ex-husband, but that punishment definitely doesn't fit whatever crime you may or may have not committed. With the threat of her sleeping with her ex-husband hanging over your head each time you make a mistake, the relationship had not chance to develop.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> I think @Steve1000 may have misunderstood. I got the impression that she asked you to go, but her plans kept changing and you decided to skip the trip because of the instability involved. In other words, she wasn't being accommodating so much as she was being a flake.


Me? But I'm infallible!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

well you know what they say "the Phish smells from the head down." congratulation for not being a push over, for being strong with your conviction. Good Job.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Wtf is phish? 
Sounds like a complicated run around. I like set plans, I don't like surprises and go with the flow kind of stuff. That's great for 20 year old college students I guess. 

But as a whole it doesn't seem like it would last and be a happy relationship anyway. I'd be thankful you had a lightbulb moment before it was too late


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I had sex with my ex fiance for two weeks after we broke up even though she had a new boyfriend. Same for the girlfriend I broke up with bor cheating. We still had sex for a month after and she even asked me to impregnate her because I had good genes. A girlfriend who is now married called me last week to tell me that she still loves me and is going to try to visit me this fall. I have not seen her in 7 years. Many times you can lust after someone but not love them. Sometimes you can love someone but not live with them. There is a saying that women want a beta male for marriage but an Alpha male for sex. I am Alpha and find a lot of truth to that. I had sex with 30 women in 47 years, only three wanted to date me. The others just wanted me for sex.

I would never ever in this life or the next, allow my wife to go someplace where he ex is without me. I would take time off from work if she had to go there but a few friendly drinks can easily lead to sex since you are so far away and will never find out. I know because I have travelled on business for a few decades and bought women, married and single drinks. There are lots of married women out there that see business travel as an opportunity to have sex with others. It is not only the man. In some cases, the husbands are OK with it.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Is Phish a band name or a euphemism? Anyway, sounds to me like you know you made the right decision here.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

I actually laughed out loud when you said that she put her hands over her ears and raised her voice. I got a vision in my head of a 5 year old child that used her fingers to plug her ears and shout loudly "La La La La La La". I think you just got a peek into the reason why she's getting divorced.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

And stop dating married women.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Why are you even questioning yourself here?

Block everything and get the hell away from this.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

AmICrazy43 said:


> I totally appreciate everything you've said. I guess this is the part that's making me question things. From my perspective, this plan changed too many times and put me out of my comfort zone. I feel that I tried to compromise by agreeing to going to 1 show. Things like this have happened in the past where I will agree to one thing and then the goal posts get moved on me. My compromise then becomes doing everything she wants to do.
> 
> Again, I appreciate your post. So you think I should have agreed to going to both shows (which I think I would rather pull my fingernails out with rusty pliers)? I hope you're not a phish fan (if so, no disrespect).


From where I'm standing it looks like she never wanted you to go with her in the first place.She kept changing plans,knowing you would eventually get pissed and refuse to go to the gig.She still looks like the good guy and you are left questioning yourself whether you are being unreasonable or not.
Let me spell this out for you my friend.
You are dating a married woman who doesn't want to divorce her husband,you and his ex gf had to push them towards divorce.
She is currently sharing a hotel room with him despite having family and friends to stay with.
She behaves like a child when you try to get your point of view across.
She manipulates everyone close to her and this was confirmed by her brother in law and you yourself have said it's not the first time she has done this.
Now explain to yourself exactly what was the positives about this relationship,all I can think of is the sex must have been awesome.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@AmICrazy43

It's time! Time to RAQ! *Run Away! Quick!*


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Run Forrest! RUNNNNNN!!!!!


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

GF with 2 kids that gets hotel rooms with her ex husband to go to concerts? Phish concerts to make it even worse. What exactly is it you see in a 41 year old woman who behaves this way? Without even adding in the baggage of the children. Easy call, let this one go to Phish shows with whoever she wants, she has no respect for you. A woman who loved and respected her BF would never pull a stunt like this. 

This was a major sh*t test for you, by breaking up with her, you past with flying colors.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

knobcreek said:


> GF with 2 kids that gets hotel rooms with her ex husband to go to concerts? Phish concerts to make it even worse. What exactly is it you see in a 41 year old woman who behaves this way? Without even adding in the baggage of the children. Easy call, let this one go to Phish shows with whoever she wants, she has no respect for you. A woman who loved and respected her BF would never pull a stunt like this.
> 
> This was a major sh*t test for you, by breaking up with her, you past with flying colors.


Thanks for this. I really needed to hear that. I've been no contact for almost 6 days now but she sent me a text today. She is asking me to help her with something, unbelievable! You are totally right about her having no respect for me. It was hard, but that's where I finally drew the boundary. We've had our troubles in the past and I'm not going to lie, I'm hurting very much right now. I think she has some cluster B disorder and they will definitely do that to you.


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## Volunteer86 (Aug 2, 2017)

Sounds like to me she needs to stop going to week long concerts and focus more on relationships and her children to me. I know everyone needs downtime and hobbies etc but that seems a little too obsessive to me.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

AmICrazy43 said:


> Thanks for this. I really needed to hear that. I've been no contact for almost 6 days now but she sent me a text today. She is asking me to help her with something, unbelievable! You are totally right about her having no respect for me. It was hard, but that's where I finally drew the boundary. We've had our troubles in the past and I'm not going to lie, I'm hurting very much right now. I think she has some cluster B disorder and they will definitely do that to you.


I hope you didn't respond. 

Block her....everywhere. Completely ghost her. You'll be glad you did.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Magnesium said:


> I hope you didn't respond.
> 
> Block her....everywhere. Completely ghost her. You'll be glad you did.



I know I should have done that but I did respond. I wanted her to actually hear (or read, it was a text) me say the word "No". I don't know if that seems petty but I kind of felt the need to do it for myself to reinforce being able to set boundaries.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

AmICrazy43 said:


> I know I should have done that but I did respond. I wanted her to actually hear (or read, it was a text) me say the word "No". I don't know if that seems petty but I kind of felt the need to do it for myself to reinforce being able to set boundaries.


I get it. 

But, now you can block her.

It's important when dealing people like her (I agree with you about the personality disorder) to not allow them a foot in the door... or a toe, or even the shadow of a foot. They are master manipulators and it is extremely easy to get sucked in. They also just want a response - any response, positive or negative will do - to make them feel like they have won. So, you can block her now that you've said your "no" and go completely NO CONTACT, which means:

NO RESPONSE - NO MATTER WHAT

These types will come up with all sorts of scenarios to prompt a response from you, from claiming illness, to a death of a mutual friend/family, to telling you what you want to hear, to acting like nothing ever happened, to calling you every name in the book. 

The only healthy response is no response at all and the best way to avoid getting duped or sucked in is to block all avenues of communication.

Trust me on this. I'm not the only one who has learned the hard way.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

AmICrazy43 said:


> I know I should have done that but I did respond. I wanted her to actually hear (or read, it was a text) me say the word "No". I don't know if that seems petty but I kind of felt the need to do it for myself to reinforce being able to set boundaries.



well look at it this way, responding to her made it clear to her your not a push over. but get ready i am guessing she will be back when she is alone again.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Her request to you tells me she doesn't know the relationship is over. Maybe try manning up and dumping her properly before blocking her. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Magnesium said:


> I get it.
> 
> But, now you can block her.
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right. I'm so thankful for you responding to my post. I'm in the grieving period and I'm very weak right now and your words are helping me tremendously. She's picking up the text pace and I need to shut it down. This is so friggin' hard. I feel so sorry for all of us that have to endure going through the pain of a break (which is all of us), especially when there is a potential disorder involved turning one's head into swiss cheese.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Her request to you tells me she doesn't know the relationship is over. Maybe try manning up and dumping her properly before blocking her.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



She knows it's over. She gave me a "so we can't even be friends? You turned out to be such a different person than I thought. Bye." text. It really is crazy town.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

AmICrazy43 said:


> She knows it's over. She gave me a "so we can't even be friends? You turned out to be such a different person than I thought. Bye." text. It really is crazy town.


Well if she said that, then I totally agree. Just block her on everything at this point and move on.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Does her STBX's current girlfriend know they got a room together? if not, You may want to help someone else out that's getting screwed around and give her a heads up. Definitely block your Ex. Nothing good can come from any contact with her. that last message was full on blame shifting . "you're not the pushover I thought you were ,so this is all your fault". Consider yourself lucky you got out now versus years down the road with a kid(s) and shared assets. You did great, by the way. you'll be fine in no time.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

AmICrazy43 said:


> She knows it's over. She gave me a "so we can't even be friends? You turned out to be such a different person than I thought. Bye." text. It really is crazy town.


Her response is actually a gift. She sounds like she is not brokenhearted, but she is just angry that she can't get her way and be friends with you. 

She is also trying to make you out to be the bad guy, when she is the one who shared a room with her husband (she wasn't divorced yet.)

You don't even have to text back "Bye."


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Does her STBX's current girlfriend know they got a room together? if not, You may want to help someone else out that's getting screwed around and give her a heads up. Definitely block your Ex. Nothing good can come from any contact with her. that last message was full on blame shifting . "you're not the pushover I thought you were ,so this is all your fault". Consider yourself lucky you got out now versus years down the road with a kid(s) and shared assets. You did great, by the way. you'll be fine in no time.



I don't know if the STBX's girlfriend knows that they got a room together. I've been wondering that myself. I can't imagine that she would be okay with it so I'm assuming he didn't tell her either. 

The other thing I thought of today is that when STBX goes to shows he usually goes with a friend. I know he has gone to a few shows over the last couple of years and he never goes alone. It really just gets worse and worse. To be honest, my mind never even got as far as them doing this to "hook up" one last time before the divorce is finalized. Just the fact that she thought it was okay to book the room and not tell me or have the decency to talk to me about it first was enough to cross my "final" boundary. I let her cross other boundaries in the past but I finally had enough.

We did exchange a couple of texts today like I mentioned above. I have to say, after doing the intensive research that I've done over the last few days, her messages are TEXTBOOK manipulator. It went like this:
Her: idealization
Me : "No"
Her: devaluation
Me : right back at you, calling you out
Her: here is something to make you second guess yourself

Thank goodness for all of you guys here and for all of the great resources online. I mean, the limited correspondence today was completely textbook. It's a very scary thing. It's very scary to know that any of us can become attached to people like this. I'm still in the grieving stage and still doing research. I don't think there is anyone out there in the world that doesn't have "issues" and this entire experience is making me look inward as well to see what it is about me that attracted me to this type of personality. 

Thanks for your reply.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There is no question that you are doing the right thing. 

Just be aware that the thing that BPDers get inflamed the most over in the whole world is being told no. 

And the thing that scares them the most is being abandoned and powerless in a relationship. 

Getting dumped and being told no is going to bring on a whole new level of crazy. 

Be prepared for anything from a pregnancy scare to getting your car keyed and tires slashed. Be prepared for her showing up on your doorstep in the pouring rain at 2 in the morning promising you the world and pleading on her mother's grave that she will be the perfect partner, to slandering your name all over her social media. 

If you have been catering to her whims and her manipulations throughout your relationship, she hasn't shown you her ugly side yet. Now that you are telling her no and cutting off her supply of accomidations, you are going to see some crazy and some of it may be downright destructive and criminal.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

AmICrazy43 said:


> I don't know if the STBX's girlfriend knows that they got a room together. I've been wondering that myself. I can't imagine that she would be okay with it so I'm assuming he didn't tell her either.
> 
> The other thing I thought of today is that when STBX goes to shows he usually goes with a friend. I know he has gone to a few shows over the last couple of years and he never goes alone. It really just gets worse and worse. To be honest, my mind never even got as far as them doing this to "hook up" one last time before the divorce is finalized. Just the fact that she thought it was okay to book the room and not tell me or have the decency to talk to me about it first was enough to cross my "final" boundary. I let her cross other boundaries in the past but I finally had enough.
> 
> ...


Is she idealising herself and her relationship with you and accusing you of devaluation?
I could give you a long convoluted response to send her full of words as passive aggressive as she is being.Self delusional,idiosyncratic etc.
But you know what,just tell her to **** off and block her.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

AmICrazy43 said:


> She knows it's over. She gave me a "so we can't even be friends? You turned out to be such a different person than I thought. Bye." text. It really is crazy town.


Of course, she sees you as such a different person. She expects that you should go along with the lifestyle she lives. A lifestyle that doesn't foster the type of commitment that you expect in a relationship. She expects to be able to enjoy herself without judgment from others. That's fine for her, but don't let her make you think you did something wrong because you want something different. In the end, this week long "phish" party was more important to her than a long term relationship with you. Take this time to examine why you allow this type of personality into your life. 

“Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option.” 

Best


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Every time you backed down on a boundary, she lost more respect for you...and you for yourself as well.

If it is important enough to be a boundary, it is important enough to enforce.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*This type of behavior on her part shows that she has absolutely no respect for either you or your feelings! All that I can really say is that this is nothing more than a heartbreaking preview of things to come in the future!

With behavior like this, exactly why wouldn't one entertain notions of dumping her?*


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Rather than quote each post, this post is basically in reply to the three previous posters. You guys are right on point and make a LOT of sense. I appreciate that.

I guess one of the things that makes going through this difficult is realizing that someone you care about has absolutely no respect for you or your feelings. This ordeal has really played on and diminished my self-respect. I agree with one of the above posters that she's choosing a band over a long term commitment. A band she's seen well over 100 times with her STBX. I even tried to compromise, bite the bullet and go to a show with her. But, she moved the goal posts probably figuring, "if I get him to go to one let me squeeze out some other things that I want to do" type of thing. It's just completely selfish.

She never apologized or even acknowledged that what she did was wrong. In her mind, it's no big deal. I think she is simply incapable of maintaining a healthy relationship. 

I am afraid that there may be a "hurt bombing" phase coming next. She's never done that before but it is in the back of my mind. Fingers crossed that it doesn't happen.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Does her STBX's current girlfriend know they got a room together? if not, You may want to help someone else out that's getting screwed around and give her a heads up.


I'd normally agree, but in this case he should just stop the entire carousel and get off immediately.

By contacting the other GF, he's just continuing to be involved in all of this, when he should just walk away entirely, IMO.

Forget it aaallll happened...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

AmICrazy43 said:


> I am afraid that there may be a "hurt bombing" phase coming next. She's never done that before but it is in the back of my mind. Fingers crossed that it doesn't happen.


The solution to this has already been given to you numerous times in this thread - BLOCK HER. STOP TALKING TO HER.

Right now, it's difficult for you, and I get that. She texts you, and you sit there thinking "Oh, I have to respond to THAT". And then you do. But every time you respond to her, she knows she still has a small piece of you, that you still care about this in some way, because you DO.

It's hard to switch _yourself_ off, but it's not hard to switch off your electronics.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

alexm said:


> The solution to this has already been given to you numerous times in this thread - BLOCK HER. STOP TALKING TO HER.
> 
> Right now, it's difficult for you, and I get that. She texts you, and you sit there thinking "Oh, I have to respond to THAT". And then you do. But every time you respond to her, she knows she still has a small piece of you, that you still care about this in some way, because you DO.
> 
> It's hard to switch _yourself_ off, but it's not hard to switch off your electronics.


You're absolutely right. Ugh... Time heals.

Thank you all for your advice and contributing to this thread. You've all helped me to not doubt myself in this situation. She's very good at putting a spin on things and twisting things around, skewing logic, and making me doubt. At first I thought this was pretty clear cut but then doubt crept in which is how I found this forum.

Thank you all!


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

Based on what you've shared here, I don't know if she is Borderline or a Narcissist, but it doesn't matter which anyway because the manipulation tactics are the same even if the motivations are different.

I know how hard it is to go no contact when you want desperately to tell them what you think, what you know about them, and to defend yourself. I also know it is absolutely futile and every single communication is seen by them as a "win." The only way to really hurt them and help yourself is to *completely cut them off*. 

Blocking will protect you from her attempts at "hoovering" you. These types can continue their attempts to hoover you for YEARS with any number of days, weeks, months or years of silence in between. They also seem to have an uncanny sense for knowing just when you're over them (or thisclose to being over them) and come out of the woodwork to steal your soul once more. 

There is nothing you can say or do that will change her or make her see the light. The only responsible thing you can do for yourself is to dead her in your mind and treat her as such in your day to day life. We don't communicate with the dead.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

In my next life, I wanna be a beta boy. At least the problems and frustrations will be different. 

No need to be decisive, I'll just wrap myself up around the first piece of ***** that walks up
and notices me. 

Just so I can orbit her, whine about her, and have no control over my own feelings about just what to do. I'll let her control my moods and life while I joyfully orbit and respond to her. Place her high on that pedestal and worship. 

She's perfect in my eyes. No one but me sees it. You just don't understand. Weep weeep weeep. I'm all emotions and indecisive. If I'd just orbit faster. Yeah. That's it!

*wondering how many posts I've read here this could apply*


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

alexm said:


> I'd normally agree, but in this case he should just stop the entire carousel and get off immediately.
> 
> By contacting the other GF, he's just continuing to be involved in all of this, when he should just walk away entirely, IMO.
> 
> Forget it aaallll happened...


Yeah, I get that and agree it would be the least confrontational way to be done, but it also lacks empathy for someone in your EXACT same situation. Hard call, but I'm not sure I could live with myself knowing I knew, and said nothing. That's close to, if not being ,complicit.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Yeah, I get that and agree it would be the least confrontational way to be done, but it also lacks empathy for someone in your EXACT same situation. Hard call, but I'm not sure I could live with myself knowing I knew, and said nothing. That's close to, if not being ,complicit.


As the person in this situation, it's a tough line to toe. I don't know the extent of her STBXH's relationship with the his GF. I also don't know if she knows they are staying in a hotel room together for two nights. If I reach out and contact her, it could be construed as me being malicious and there could be vindictive repercussions that I have to deal with whether the GF knows or not. It puts me in a precarious situation.

Also, is their relationship really any of my business? What gives me the right to inject myself into their relationship? Maybe his GF does the same thing? Maybe they have a horrible relationship. Maybe they just broke up? I have no idea if they are even still together. Do I really have the right to interfere in other people's relationships when I'm not entirely sure of their status or they dynamic of their relationship? What if they are polygamists or in an open relationship? I have no idea of these things. I don't see any good coming to any party if I were to contact his GF and ask her, "hey, did you know...".


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

And as a side note, the first show is tonight. As much as my mind knows I did the right thing, tonight is not a good night for me. I absolutely will never entertain any type of relationship or friendship with this woman, but today is D-Day for me in terms of the entire plan commencing. So, please go easy on me tonight.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

AmICrazy43 said:


> And as a side note, the first show is tonight. As much as my mind knows I did the right thing, tonight is not a good night for me. I absolutely will never entertain any type of relationship or friendship with this woman, but today is D-Day for me in terms of the entire plan commencing. So, please go easy on me tonight.


Go out with some friends and have a pity party for yourself,get drunk and tomorrow start moving on.
DO NOT!!!! Bring your phone with you.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> Go out with some friends and have a pity party for yourself,get drunk and tomorrow start moving on.
> DO NOT!!!! Bring your phone with you.


Wish I could. I have an early morning tomorrow. I'm drinking some beers, going to grill a burger, and watch a couple of shows on the couch. Tomorrow, that may just be my plan though. 0

Thanks!


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

"so we can't even be friends?" = "I still need more stuff out of you"

You've followed the right course of action. Get started finding a decent woman and be careful that you don't fall into this trap again.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

With the intent to inject a little levity and cheer you up, this is all you're missing.
What Phish sounds like to people who don't like Phish.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Tatsuhiko said:


> "so we can't even be friends?" = "I still need more stuff out of you"
> 
> You've followed the right course of action. Get started finding a decent woman and be careful that you don't fall into this trap again.



You are 100% right. That's exactly what I thought when I read that. When I got:
Her: "You turned out to be such a different person than I thought. (sad face) Bye."
My Reply: "If by that you mean someone you can no longer manipulate, use, and disrespect then you are correct. Bye"

That was on the same day. I def will not fall into her trap. I'm healing and getting stronger and I have finally learned to enforce my boundaries. Does it still hurt, heck yeah it does. I know I need to give myself time to heal. 

I did read the "beta" post someone posted here. Point is well taken but there is more to it to that, especially if you are dealing with a potential disorder.


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> With the intent to inject a little brevity and cheer you up, this is all you're missing.
> What Phish sounds like to people who don't like Phish.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNHIFM0Y87c&ab_channel=texfoldem


Dude, that is hilarious!! I actually saw that a couple of days ago! It's totally on point!!!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP, I'm going to comment from a woman's perspective. I've not read all of the responses, but my thought is that your gf isn't detached from her ex and as such is poor relationship material, at least right now. 

For many people it's a process to detach after a split, particularly when the split was somewhat amicable.

And at least for women there can be a territorial aspect.... even though she might not want him she's used to being queen bee in his life and probably likes the attention.

She has poor boundaries, and the fact that she didn't tell you tells me that she deep down knows it's not right. Booking a hotel room with her ex is a big fat no go.

I had this to some degree with my hb and his ex. I don't want to thread jack but suffice to say that his boundaries were terrible. We've settled things but in retrospect I never should have put up with it for as long as I did. 

You were right to end this......get out now. If she was ready for a relationship you wouldn't be dealing with this..... no amount of texts and bull****ting is going to change that. 

I have mixed feelings about informing her ex's gf..... you could send her one note so she knows what she's dealing with. 

Cut contact..... she's not separated her life from his and if she ever does it might be a while. And we haven't even touched on the fact that you're dealing with a 41 year old groupie.

There are plenty of available women out there..... don't waste your time with this.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

AmICrazy43 said:


> You are 100% right. That's exactly what I thought when I read that. When I got:
> Her: "You turned out to be such a different person than I thought. (sad face) Bye."
> My Reply: "If by that you mean someone you can no longer manipulate, use, and disrespect then you are correct. Bye"
> 
> ...


What a load of crap her comment was. I'm not even sure I would've bothered with your comment.....all that needed to be said was "you're not ready for a real relationship. Good luck finding someone to put up with this.....bye".

And the sad face is great... the cherry on the poor me pie and whipped cream. Hang on while I get the world's smallest violin so I can play a sad song for her.

Meanie bf won't let poor baby run around chasing Phish with her ex hb..... how terrible! 

What is she, 15?


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, I'm going to comment from a woman's perspective. I've not read all of the responses, but my thought is that your gf isn't detached from her ex and as such is poor relationship material, at least right now.
> 
> For many people it's a process to detach after a split, particularly when the split was somewhat amicable.
> 
> ...



I greatly appreciate your perspective and your words. I think there is more going on here. I think her ex is not just a "triangulation" pawn but someone whom she needs to rely on because she knows he will always be there due to them having children together. She's already manipulated the crap out of him during their marriage and she knows she has him by the ... shoe strings. 

She needs a LOT of attention and he is one constant in that area. They were separated for about a year before I met her. I've known/been with her for just over 2 years, so they've been "apart" for quite a while now. I just think there are deeper, perhaps personality disordered factors at play here. With or without them, I still think she knows right from wrong and knows what she did was wrong but simply doesn't care because her needs were satisfied.

By the way, I love the "41 year old groupie" line! It's so fitting and so sad but true!


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> What a load of crap her comment was. I'm not even sure I would've bothered with your comment.....all that needed to be said was "you're not ready for a real relationship. Good luck finding someone to put up with this.....bye".
> 
> And the sad face is great... the cherry on the poor me pie and whipped cream. Hang on while I get the world's smallest violin so I can play a sad song for her.
> 
> ...


Your comment back is much better than my response. I wish I was more clear headed and thought of that. That would have been a much, much more mature response than mine.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

AmICrazy43 said:


> Your comment back is much better than my response. I wish I was more clear headed and thought of that. That would have been a much, much more mature response than mine.


Well in your defense I have the benefit of monday morning quarterbacking


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

AmICrazy43 said:


> I greatly appreciate your perspective and your words. I think there is more going on here. I think her ex is not just a "triangulation" pawn but someone whom she needs to rely on because she knows he will always be there due to them having children together. She's already manipulated the crap out of him during their marriage and she knows she has him by the ... shoe strings.
> 
> She needs a LOT of attention and he is one constant in that area. They were separated for about a year before I met her. I've known/been with her for just over 2 years, so they've been "apart" for quite a while now. I just think there are deeper, perhaps personality disordered factors at play here. With or without them, I still think she knows right from wrong and knows what she did was wrong but simply doesn't care because her needs were satisfied.
> 
> By the way, I love the "41 year old groupie" line! It's so fitting and so sad but true!


Yeah, a lot of women are like that..... needing a lot of attention. The same ones who hang out with mostly men because "they get along better with men". Translation: they need a lot of male attention and don't want to have to compete with other women for it. 

Until he really sets boundaries she'll **** up every relationship he has, because she wants to ego boost of thinking she's still of huge importance in his life. My hb's ex was the same way. It's pathetic.

We're ok because in finally put my foot down and he chose me. Had he not I'm not sure where we'd be. 

I have no desire to deal with my ex except as it relates to our kids, and I sure as **** don't want him looking at me. I'm nice to his gf because she's a nice lady but beyond that we're done.

Ha ha, I'm 43 and I can't imagine chasing bands around and couch surfacing. I went to a bar with some work gf's a few months ago and remembering thinking about how young everyone was and how I so did not fit in. 

And i dare say i have a better body then most 21 year olds.....but I'm still 43! Geez, grow up already.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Rubix Cubed said:


> With the intent to inject a little brevity and cheer you up, this is all you're missing.
> What Phish sounds like to people who don't like Phish.


Really not that different. 






:rofl:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

AmICrazy43 said:


> And as a side note, the first show is tonight. As much as my mind knows I did the right thing, tonight is not a good night for me. I absolutely will never entertain any type of relationship or friendship with this woman, but today is D-Day for me in terms of the entire plan commencing. So, please go easy on me tonight.


Look at it this way at least you didn't have to go see Phish. :grin2:


Look many Alpha, Beta whatever, the point is the universe works like this, you will get treated more often then not at the worst possible way you allow yourself to be treated. People who don't stand up for themselves always end up getting taken advantage of. You can compromise sure but you do that because you want to do them not because you are afraid to say, um know that's too much to ask. 

I get your sad, but if you put this into practice I guarantee you you will have a much happier and in the long run healthier relationship with someone else. You won't have to deal with this kind of nonsense. This is not what a relationship with a normal person is like. They don't go on trips, concerts with their exs while dating you. 

On a final note I am not sure why you are afraid she is going to hurt bomb you. BLOCK HER!


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## AmICrazy43 (Jul 31, 2017)

You guys are definitely making me feel much better tonight. I really did dodge a bullet with this woman. Luckily, my mind knows that, but for some reason, my body is reacting to stress over this. I'm healing pretty quickly, especially thanks to you guys. There are some really, really good people here. You guys have really restored my faith in humanity. Thank you!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Yeah, I get that and agree it would be the least confrontational way to be done, but it also lacks empathy for someone in your EXACT same situation. Hard call, but I'm not sure I could live with myself knowing I knew, and said nothing. That's close to, if not being ,complicit.


99% of the time I'd agree.

The reality is there's already a lot of drama involved in this, and she's clearly not stable.

Sometimes it IS best to walk away, and throw a match behind you. This sounds like one of those situations.


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