# Should I stay or should I go question...Its haunting me



## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Cant believe I am even on this website, and never in a million years figured I would be in this predicament.

Little back ground. My wife cheated on me 12 years ago, I was devistated, but would not leave due to my two young innocent children. She was also not in the right state of mind. Being betrayed is the worst thing anyone has to deal with. Even worse, I knew it was going to happen, we were in therapy at the time, but she disregarded my plea of please don't cheat.
It fell on deaf ears, and it just grinds at me. I am not a normally bitter person, but geeze could she put the knife in any deeper.

Over the past 4 months we have returned to councelling, because our relationship is down the toilet. I agreed to councelling as her main concern was the lack of communication. I agree with that, but there was a big elephant in the room, her betrayal that has never been discussed. I brought it up, and ever since its been pretty rocky.

I joined a suppport group for betrayed spouses, to make me feel like I am not alone. Glad I joined as there was not much available 12 years ago. Nobody in my or her family even know about this. I have been suffering in silence for so long, and it has eaten me away inside.
I realized the other day that I have checked out of my marriage long ago due to this. The hurt and pain is still there. Cannot seem to get rid of it.

Lately I have been thinking that seperation, might be an option. The tension is so high between us, most days I do not want to go home after work. We dont talk, and when we do its all very hurtfull stuff.

I need the space to process my relationship, still doing councelling, but I am tugged as to what to do. I know it is my decision, I so dream and crave to feel free and lighten this load I have been carrying for so long.

I feel stuck, should I stay or go, and being on the fence does not help me see my way ahead.
I have never been selfish, nor self absorbed, but its time for me to get on with my life, either alone, or as a couple.
I am sure there are more people who are in this boat, and it is a struggle :scratchhead:


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

Hard to ever say what someone else should do. I found that once my wife cheated I never trusted her again, through 3 R's I still had her phone account password and would check everyday (Horrible way to live). I wish you well in what ever you decide.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

What did your counselor say about the cheating? You can not get over this without help from your counselor and from your wife working with you.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Your wife lost respect for you twelve years ago because you failed to stand up for yourself or make her face consequences for her cheating. Once a woman loses respect for her husband there is no getting it back. You have been nothing more than a meal ticket for her and deep down you know this. 

I say cut your losses and divorce her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Craig,

In reading your post, it sounds like you are saying that the A was off limits for discussion. Was that immediately after or how long after? That's important. Because it would appear she wanted, and you allowed it, to be rug swept. 

You don't mention if otherwise she demonstrated remorse. I'm betting not much. Tell us about that.

Part of showing remorse is for the CS to OWN what they did. To accept open discussion about it with no expiration date. Otherwise the BS may internalize all this hurt and anger and live in purgatory; limbo - living for years in a false R. Particularly if the CS is not otherwise remorseful. You would not be the first BS where the culmination of all this internalizing, rears it's head a decade later.

If that's the case, you need to let her know how you feel. If she truly is remorseful, you'll know it by her reaction.

If she's not, you've got a decision to make. Continue the status quo or D.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Craig, the kids are grown now, so exactly what are your arguments for wanting to stay?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Have you had good counselling over the impact her affair had on you?

*Have you told her*?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Well you didn't exactly give any convincing reasons why you should stay:scratchhead:


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Have you had good counselling over the impact her affair had on you?
> 
> *Have you told her*?


My first thought as well.

If you want to try and salvage the marriage, I suggest addressing her betrayal head on. Get everything out- _everything!_ And then see how it goes. Maybe that will ease some of the built up tensions.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP, is your wife remorseful? It does not seem to be the case with your story. This seems like a case of rug sweeping coming back to bite you in the arse.

This is no way to live and no example to set for your kids. After 12 years they are likely grown now?

If she has no remorse, I can't imagine how you could reconcile properly.

Ultimately, the decision to R or D is yours. If there were no remorse, or if I couldn't heal after 12 years... I'd cut my losses. You have suffered enough for her actions and your inaction (rug sweeping). This is not a put down, just an observation.

Good luck
WD


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Was the OM married? Can you call his wife and expose the affair? There is no statute of limitations on the truth.

What did your wife do to earn a second chance?

If after 12 years this still bothers you, you maybe really should leave. And by leave I mean file for D and ask her to move out. Its your home and she is the one who chose to have sex with another man.so she goes.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks for all the input, it's very helpful to get different opinions.
Firstly that's exactly what happened, it was swept under the rug to never be discussed again, that was her wishes. I think back to that time, and I was a mess and was trying to figure out WTF was going on. It was never discussed or resolved.
I am not one to abandon my family and my girls were the reason I stayed. They are now 21, and 19, still living at home going to college. They are grown.
The last post was a good one. No convincing reason to stay, that is so true. There are so many issues on the table, that she needs to deal with, and I just can't do it for her.
She has blamed me of waiting her last 12 years and that her life is in my hands. I was like, come on, are you serious, you have done nothing about anything over the past 12 years, you can make decisions too, so this has seemed to be my decision.
Kind of crazy but does piss me off that she is leaving this up to me. She said she is sorry and that she has been punished for the last 12 years due to me punching out emotionally. I have to admit I did punch out, to protect myself.
We have had sex once since March 2010, so as far as I am concerned we are pretty much done.
Still going to counseling and I will have more to say at our next session.
I have neglected the most important person in my life, ME, and now it's time for me to get on with my life.

The other man was a younger guy she met on the net, and she travelled to him for the affair, and I asked her before she left, please don't have the affair, but she did anyways.......that stings.

Thanks for all the replies.

Craig


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> Thanks for all the input, it's very helpful to get different opinions.
> Firstly that's exactly what happened, it was swept under the rug to never be discussed again, that was her wishes. I think back to that time, and I was a mess and was trying to figure out WTF was going on. It was never discussed or resolved.
> I am not one to abandon my family and my girls were the reason I stayed. They are now 21, and 19, still living at home going to college. They are grown.
> The last post was a good one. No convincing reason to stay, that is so true. There are so many issues on the table, that she needs to deal with, and I just can't do it for her.
> ...


Since the affair was rugswept...has she been faithful the last 12 years? It sounds to me that you have a list of issues to get through, perhaps a trial separation? Don't let her blame you for HER life, just like your life is in your hands. She made the situation and now she is dealing with the repercussions..


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Time for everything. At this point theres nothing holding you back. Id reccomend no more mr nice guy and married man sex life primer. Both are excellent books.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She looked you in the eye and walked away to go on the trip and have sex with another guy . That is so very cold.

She should have returned to find he clothes in garbage bags outside the door.

Since the girls are out, it's maybe time to close the door on this thing, the fact that she's blaming you for the marriage relationship emotionally dying 12 years ago without accepting the it was entirely caused by her choice to cheat says it all.

She has no remorse and no sense of ownership for the way it is.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

you have lived in misery for 12 yrs---reason---the girls needed a stable homelife----can you say they have grown up in any kind of a decent atmosphere----doubt it, according to your post

Your wife told she was gonna go and have sex with some guy---and you just let her go---I know you couldn't physically stop her---but you needed 12 yrs ago to say to her---if you go this mge. is over---that didn't happen---you have punished yourself for the last 12 yrs

It is you that has served the sentence for her crime agst the mge.

Kids are grown---and there is nothing stopping you

You have some decent years left in you----and there are many, many good/decent/loving/wonderful women out there, who are begging to find a good decent man to spend the rest of their life with

You only get one try at life on this planet---right now your days are filled with misery, they are passionless, there is no love, every morning you arise to face a bleak landscape, day after day after day---the trigger is right there in front of you---never to go away, cuz she does not want to face life on her own---

She made one decision to cheat on you, she rubbed your face in it---now she just hangs on so you can bankroll her life---good bad or indifferent---she has a roof over her head, she has 2 kids, and she has a H, who provides for her----

What do you have----misery, day after day, of misery----this is the 18th of july----you will live it in misery, will the 19th of july also be a day of misery for you, what about all the rest of the days of july

You want to live life again, you want to enjoy the sunshine, you want to be carefree, and have peace of mind---go and get your D----your girls will still love you---they know you are loving/loyal/decent/wonderful, and that you will be there for them----get up manana, look at the sun, and enjoy life---go see an atty, and end your misery


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

And here in this thread is a reason why a betrayed spouse should not stay because of the kids. The marriage remains damaged. The family environment became dysfunctional. All this is bad for your 2 daughters. Hope they dont remain too scarred for life.

Divorce now. There's still time to show your wife and your daughters that there should be serious consequences like divorce for blatant adultery.

When your daughters see an appropriate response from you, that, I think, will go a long way with their mental health.

Dont forget to continue to show your love to your daughters. They might be harboring guilt because of your suffering from staying with your wife because of them.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> I feel stuck, should I stay or go, and being on the fence does not help me see my way ahead.
> 
> 
> I have never been selfish, nor self absorbed,


The thing is, you have been self absorbed...from what you say. Understandably so, but self absorbed all the same. You have been selfish to your own needs, selfish to you, and in not dealing with this you have both suffered...I know, she has caused this process to take place, but you have also been complicit in the situation that followed. You have accepted her rug sweeping and closed down. Checked out. All understandable, but as you can see now, if you had not allowed her to do that, the whole issue would have been dealt with by now one way or the other, and you BOTH would not have wasted the last 12 years. The point is, to force her hand to deal with it and rebuild the marriage, or agree to stay together purely for children, or to separate. 

It is still not too late for this. I guess it just depends whether you want to work for the marriage or whether you have just had enough. Don't carry on in the limbo you have experienced for such a long time. Though it does sound like you have got to the end of the road with this. 

Do you think she might be open to putting in the hard work now to fix the marriage? Have you opened up to her about how you feel and what you need?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

You asked her not to have the affair. Her reply was to spit in your face. You stayed married for your children. They are now grown up. Just file for divorce. For both your sakes.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

The responses are amazing. Sometimes it hard to see whats really going on when you sre so imersed in all of this.

JNJ
Your post was so bang on the money. It was exactly what it feels like. Sometimes its just hard to see past all the BS, but I guess thats why these message boards are for.

Its hard to find the real me these days due to all this, but I am getting there, and appreciate the responses.

These messages also give strength and conviction that I am so important and living like this is not healthy for anyone.

Craig


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> The responses are amazing. Sometimes it hard to see whats really going on when you sre so imersed in all of this.
> 
> JNJ
> Your post was so bang on the money. It was exactly what it feels like. Sometimes its just hard to see past all the BS, but I guess thats why these message boards are for.
> ...


12 years is a long time but if you want to save your marriage you need to back up to when this all went down and treat it as new. That full disclosure from her, and a willingness to be sorry from her, and you placing boundaries on your marriage. 
You may not wish to work it out and that is your choice. She may not wish to try either, but this is the option as I see it.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Chris,

Just wondering if you have decided on what you are going to do. Your wife is blame shifting and has never faced what she has done.

Is this what you want out of your marriage? Do you want her to accept responsibility for what she did? Will she? 

You are strong. You did what you needed to do but you live in a sexless marriage out of comfort I would say. IS she willing to work with you and make your marriage great or is she comfortable with the misery. You finally seem to not be so comfortable any more.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Craig49;3182305
[B said:


> She has blamed me of waiting her last 12 years[/B] and that her life is in my hands. I was like, come on, are you serious, you have done nothing about anything over the past 12 years, you can make decisions too, so this has seemed to be my decision.
> Kind of crazy but does piss me off that she is leaving this up to me. *She said she is sorry and that she has been punished for the last 12 years due to me punching out emotionally.* I have to admit I did punch out, to protect myself.
> *We have had sex once since March 2010*, so as far as I am concerned we are pretty much done.


This about says it all about how much true remorse she has: *NONE AT ALL*

These are the facts of your situation as you have posted it:


Your WW cheated on you 12 years ago
She rubbed the affair in your face, and disrespected you, your marriage, and your children by flying off t bang her OM despite you begging her not to
She wanted you to rugsweep the affair, therefore she suffered no consequences at all. There was no exposure of the affair, not to friends, family, or the OM's wife/girl friend
Your resentment at having been betrayed has built up for 12 long years because she forced you to rugsweep the affair. In effect, she got away with it because you feel she had you by the balls because of the children
She blameshifts, meaning she says its ALL YOUR FAULT, says she's been punished. Yeah, right, she suffered no consequences at all from her cheating. She did nothing to help address your pain and suffering. She made you eat a big sh!t sandwich and you were supposed to like it.
You have now been in a sexless marriage for the past three fracking years

This is yet another prime example of what happens when the BS rugsweeps the affair: The resentment builds and builds until there is nothing left but bitterness.

If there's any chance at fixing this, she has to do the heavy lifting to help you heal, because you never did heal. Its been a wound thats been festering for years. You must demand that she help you heal. You must demand that this be brought out into the open and discussed. Either she is in or she is out. It's as simple as that. If she goes half ass, then she's not in. If she continues to blameshift and rugsweep, she's not in. 










BTW, I also sense that she's engaging in behavior that is heightening your resentment. Is she:


Hiding her phone?
Password protecting her phone and email, facebook, social networking accounts?
Going on Girls Night Outs (GNOs) to clubs and bars with her girlfriends (supposedly)?

You say you haven't had sex for three years. She must be getting it somewhere. Do you think she's in another affair? Is she displaying the signs of cheating?


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wow, what a great post.
Some of the things you mention are just so understandable, it's like you cannot see the forest for all the trees.

She has no passwords on her phone, she does not face book, do I think she would cheat again......nope, but that's what I thought 12 years ago too.

This will be interesting to discuss in my next marriage counseling session coming up this week. 

It's to bad that this has taken more than 12 years to even materialize, and stuffing it away was a method for me to cope.
It is what it is, and can't change a thing, I can just move forward with my life.

Your comments are so true, and you have totally validated things I have been feeling, but have difficulty putting into words.

The resentment was heightened when we began another counseling go around for the second time.
She wanted to work on our communication, which I will admit is terrible, but everything was just not sitting well with me. Our therapist had no idea of the infidelity issue, so I raised my hand and said, this is not working, and exposed the truth.
Kind of put things into a different perspective, and I can't work on a relationship until this is resolved. Will it ever be, well for me I think I am done, just have not gotten there just yet.

It's the secrecy of all of it that's also an issue. Nobody knows, a few people from my support group, that's about it. 
Se asked me not to say anything, and I did not, which is just another part of the rug sweeping, and she does not have to deal with it.

Some days I wish I cold just tell everyone what she did to me.......it would make me feel better, but then again I don't want to cause any extra hurt either.

It's like a tight rope.........so tired:banghead::banghead:


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Some ideas come to mind.
I do believe a great deal of the anger you feel is misdirected. You are, partly, angry at yourself, for the way you managed, or better said didn't, her cheating back then.

Yeah... she got consequences, you got mad, detached, feeded a superfical relationship, unloaded on her passively agresively to fight the chump factor, to re-emasculate yourself... she accepted those consequences, felt it was better than being forced to deal with her cheating, to "fake" remorse, she knew she won and made you to shut up, she knew you didn't want to get the divorce, for the kids, whatever, she bullied you into staying in her terms, she never was challenged in her character, felt genuine remorse... so she accepted to be punished for the last 12 years they only way you knew, by becoming a jerk to her and detaching. It was worth for her too (after all you were the one to blame to begin with).

And you accepted those terms. You got and remain angry becasue you stayed with an unrepetant cheater.

Time to challenge her, time to adress her and time to adress you behavior.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

You are so right, with your first comments. I am very disappointed at myself for the way I handled this in the beginning and it's haunting me.
All I could think of at the time was my two little girls, that would be left with this woman whom I did not know anymore.
I was scared for them, scared to leave them alone with her.
Might sound like an excuse, but that was my main reason. In most people eyes it might be a good reason, but for me at the time, they were the two reasons I stayed, and told my wife that.
Two reasons, then said each of there names.

I also agree with the last portion of your message, totally agree.

Thanks for posting, I appreciate all of the responses. Bring a light to some of the issues, reasons why I did things, and reasons why I did not.

Craig


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Craig.

You have had to carry this load of dirty laundry around your neck for far too long. Wife had an affair, she will not talk to you about it. She told you not to tell anyone about it and for 12 years you complied to her wishes. You have done your penance and suffered more than anyone should have while she could still walk around with her fictitious dignity at your expense. Time to end it.

File for your well deserved divorce. Your daughters are old enough to understand and I would be willing to bet the house that if you told them the reason, both of them would have asked the same question. "Why did you wait so long?" You asked the wife not to cheat and she said "that stings" and did it anyways. Hit her with divorce papers and ask her if these papers in front of you sting. Then you let everyone and I mean everyone know what she did and how you held it together for the kids and now it's your turn to breath a little clean air for a change. Don't worry about your girls. They know you love them and you were there for them. You proved it by being a better man than your wife deserved


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Craig49 said:


> Some days I wish I cold just tell everyone what she did to me.......it would make me feel better, but then again I don't want to cause any extra hurt either.
> 
> It's like a tight rope.........so tired:banghead::banghead:


Time out here....

The truth may hurt but YOU are not the cause of any pain it might cause other people if it comes out. This is ALL her fault. Even if you tell everyone you know, you did not cause this and it is not you responsibility to keep it secret. You have been living with this pain for 12 years. She is the cause of the pain. 

Plus I don't think anyone else could experience the pain you have felt if you told them. I think it would be more like "OOOOHHH, it all makes sense now." I'm sure people have sensed that something was wrong but didn't know what.

And most likely she has been badmouthing you to anyone who would listen.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

6301 said:


> File for your well deserved divorce. *Your daughters are old enough to understand and I would be willing to bet the house that if you told them the reason, both of them would have asked the same question. "Why did you wait so long?" You asked the wife not to cheat and she said "that stings" and did it anyways.* Hit her with divorce papers and ask her if these papers in front of you sting. Then you let everyone and I mean everyone know what she did and how you held it together for the kids and now it's your turn to breath a little clean air for a change. Don't worry about your girls. They know you love them and you were there for them. You proved it by being a better man than your wife deserved


This. Have known about what my Dad has done for almost 15 years now. I asked my Mom way back then and I STILL ask her now, "Are you ever going to divorce him???" Don't get me wrong, love my Dad, but I have no idea why my Mom still puts up with him or why she has stayed in this marriage for as long as she has. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Seeing how me and my siblings are all adults now I sure as hell hope it's not for our sake or wasn't the case back then.

And I also agree with letting people know what was done to you.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey J---IMHO---your mom probably cannot at this point in her life---be on her own---so she stays in her mge---Only she knows, and maybe you, whether she is living in misery---

Question becomes---what would cause her the most misery---being on her own---or sucking it up and living with her cheating H.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

There is no reason to hide the truth. It has been a poison in your system and marriage this whole time. Let both families know, it will be a good example of a couple bad ideas, cheating and rugs weeping.

I cant imagine how you went this long, I'm in pain for you.

You are spot on, if she wants to fix this, the affair must be dealt with front and center and if not the divorce must include full disclosure, front and center!

Don't make the same mistake again and rug sweep your feelings and her cheating.

I wish you well, take care!


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hiding the truth, exposing the infidelity, is something she should do to our daughters, that's a tough one, for sure, but it's not about me...........she thinks it's none of there business, and that comment really bothers me.

I don't like to cause any extra pain, hurt, etc, but the one I have been hurting through all this is me.

I am pushing forward, small baby steps and this need to come to a head very soon. It has gone this long, been just existing in our relationship, plugging along doing the right thing, as society and family structure has taught us throughout our lives.
It's not an excuse, I have made many over the years, owning this, suffering in silence, it just does not work for me anymore.

Craig


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> Hiding the truth, exposing the infidelity, is something she should do to our daughters, that's a tough one, for sure, but it's not about me...........she thinks it's none of there business, and that comment really bothers me.


Your daughter has to be told. Your wife betrayed the entire family. To with hold the truth makes you an accomplice.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Accomplice...........for the secrecy, yes I agree to that.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

"I have had the most painful experience of my life and mistakenly enabled a damaging and negative situation by failing to bring the truth out into the open where it could be dealt with, finally healed, learned from, and moved on from. I am very sorry and I want to correct that now. My wife..."
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/size


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

P.s.

If you decide you want to try and save this relationship, just say the word and there are many tools and experiences that we can offer you.

Beginning with rebuilding respect (if possible) and working on communication, etc.

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

_Wife, in case you didn't notice it already, there's a gigant purple gorilla in the living room._


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Acabado said:


> _Wife, in case you didn't notice it already, there's a gigant purple gorilla in the living room._


Acabado, what do you have against white elephants? ha ha.

Seriously, I can't get it off my mind how she said that she has endured lashing out at your hands. She considered and accepts this as her punishment or penance. 

We all need motivation to stick with something or do the right thing and often we rationalize our way to that "grace", and that's not always a bad thing.

I just think how sad for her to live that way, especially if she has not continued cheating, brining it out into the light would have been so much better for everyone.

Her communication skills must be crap.

Just a really sad situation

So sorry Craig.

Take care!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I think we all ask ourselves what would I have done. Hindsight is 20:20

Craig, I would not have thought of this at the time but considering your story now, I think one response could be the following.


Craig "Please don't go". WW "I'm gong and you cant stop me".

Craig, ok I'll try to have the divorce papers in had when you get back, (this is nothing new but here is where I would do it differently with the benefit of hindsight).

When she returned having sown her wild oats, I would have divorced her, but agreed to live together for the girls sake and to see if the relationship could be saved. (Btw when I say "I would have" I am not really speaking as a boast just posing an idea)

This assuming that she came back as it seems she did realizing that she made a bad decision and willing to stick with her relationship with you and the girls.

In this way you maintain your self respect, take an honest approach to the infidelity, and provide some protection for you if she carries on.

You can always remarry her later.

Again just thinking out loud but if I had a friend in this situation this is what I think I would recommend.

Take care!


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Yes having looked back at it, that would have been the easiest solution, and I would not be dealing with this now.
I could be happier with another spouse by now, no doubt.

It's easy to think of the other options now well after the fact, that's another thing that I am dealing with, guilt towards myself for allowing me to suffer this long.

Craig


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Stop living in misery, file for divorce, work on getting your self-esteem/respect back, find a woman who actually respects you and get your life back.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Craig...You are missing out on a valuable resource....

Ask your daughters what you should do...

They have more insight into the situation post affair than anyone. They are adults now, and can understand all the details, they also know your heart and your wife's. 

They know better than anyone whether your wife is worth another chance...Have a sit down with them, and put all the cards on the table....

the woodchuck


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Woodchuck, that's not even an option.
Only I can decide what is best for me, my daughters need to be not part of my way forward. They are pretty smart, but any decisions that I need to make to move forward in my life need to be up to me, and nobody else.

I appreciate the comment.

Craig


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

aug said:


> And here in this thread is a reason why a betrayed spouse should not stay because of the kids.


False statement.

Staying for the kids can be a good start.

The problem is this BH just allowed his WW to rug sweep the affair.

No work was done to recover the marriage. Without the right work being done the marriage will just stay in limp along mode.

In 12 years this BH has not learned how to recover from an affair. Many marriages have gone on to be better post affair.

The first step to learn the skills for recovery is to get a inexpensive book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

theroad said:


> False statement.
> 
> Staying for the kids can be a good start.
> 
> ...





Craig49 said:


> Even worse, I knew it was going to happen, we were in therapy at the time, but she disregarded my plea of please don't cheat.
> It fell on deaf ears, and it just grinds at me. I am not a normally bitter person, but geeze could she put the knife in any deeper.





Craig49 said:


> The other man was a younger guy she met on the net, and she travelled to him for the affair, and I asked her before she left, please don't have the affair, but she did anyways.......that stings.


The wife was blatant about her affair. Had such damn disrespect for her marriage. I dont see why he needed to spend the 12 years working on a marriage that wasnt one.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Just had a thought that may assist me with moving forward in this situation.
In order for me to fully feel that she is remorseful, I think she would have to tell everyone, via face book, email or by all other means to her friends, and our daughters.

Would this be out of line for me to demand this, I am thinking not.
If she would do this, it would stop the rug sweeping and also show me that she is in fact remorseful. Does not mean that reconciliation is guaranteed, but its a step.

Looking for some thoughts and opinions.


Craig


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Why not just ask her? Try cornering her and making her talk about this issue.

Why are you so afraid of laying it on the line with her?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> Just had a thought that may assist me with moving forward in this situation.
> In order for me to fully feel that she is remorseful, I think she would have to tell everyone, via face book, email or by all other means to her friends, and our daughters.
> 
> Would this be out of line for me to demand this, I am thinking not.
> ...


I think the answer is obvious, and brings asking your daughters for their opinions back into play...They are stronger than you think, and will resent not having a say....I have seen it time and time again...Kids want to have input, and not be ignored......

the woodchuck


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> Just had a thought that may assist me with moving forward in this situation.
> In order for me to fully feel that she is remorseful, I think she would have to tell everyone, via face book, email or by all other means to her friends, and our daughters.
> 
> Would this be out of line for me to demand this, I am thinking not.
> ...


Just looked through your thread and was thinking about your situation. Lots of good points and counter-points must have you thinking.

I would shy away from a FB blast. The exposure probably should be a little more targeted toward those that are close to your marriage, and would question why you would chose to seek a D. 

FB blasting probably would make you look petty, and would cause extra embarassment for those that really could do without distasteful comments (i.e. your children). Exposure probably should look more like rifle shots than shotgun blasts. Your exposure reasons are different now than someone trying to have a spouse end an A.

The overall issue of resent and betrayal seem to over-shadow the current state of matrimony. Sexless marriage? Lack of love? I would think that these things would bring you to a fork in the road above and beyond the hurt that has not healed. These are adequate reasons for many to D. Cheating is not always required.

Just wondering out loud why you are on the fence. It seems for most of us that D need some remedy or justification. Guilt should not be the reason for staying in a poor relationship.

My vote is that you move on. It is YOUR decision, and you wanted input. Let us know how it goes. At this late stage in the game, I don't see how a strong reaction will benefit either of you. 

Just file and answer those that want/need to know with the truth.

My $0.02.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

aug said:


> The wife was blatant about her affair. Had such damn disrespect for her marriage. I dont see why he needed to spend the 12 years working on a marriage that wasnt one.


It is for the BH to decide to divorce or recover. His kids were very good reasons to not divorce.

Thing is this WW has to learn that to stop banging the OM is not doing recovery. The BH needs to learn that not divorcing his WW is not recovering.

They have not done anything to recover the marriage for the last 12 years.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> Just had a thought that may assist me with moving forward in this situation.
> In order for me to fully feel that she is remorseful, I think she would have to tell everyone, via face book, email or by all other means to her friends, and our daughters.
> 
> Would this be out of line for me to demand this, I am thinking not.
> ...


You've been idle for 12 years... so it's not out of line, but long overdue.

Your daughters have spend the last 12 years with parents that show no love to each other. So by 'staying for the children', you've both deprived them of seeing parents that are loving. She owes it to them to let them know why, and what's been going on that's been making things so uncomfortable at home. Children learn from what they see at home. Your girls have seen a mom and dad that don't communicate, and don't show affection or love to each other. 

I'd avoid electronic communication, and have her tell family/friends in person or on the phone if they are long distance. If she doesn't want to work on things... tell her that you'll pack her stuff for her and let her know when someone will be there to let her in so she can get her stuff. Her actions will speak volumes.

If you still love her, and want to have communication with her, want to have sex with her, want to have a good relationship with her... it'll have to start with her being honest, not only with you, but with herself. Your daughters should respect you for taking charge of the situation no matter which path you decide to go down.

Make sure she doesn't have a current OM/AP too.. if so, go straight to D.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback.
Yes the shotgun blast to the wide world would not be putting a good foot forward, the thought sounds great, but this would also cause alot more issues, and I have enough at the moment.

This is well overdue, so overdue, and thats why I am here and part of a support group as well.

Craig


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> Yes the shotgun blast to the wide world would not be putting a good foot forward, the thought sounds great, but this would also cause alot more issues, and I have enough at the moment.
> 
> This is well overdue, so overdue, and thats why I am here and part of a support group as well.
> ...


Stay off Cheaterville. This is between you and your wife. It always has been. Sit her down and lay it on the line. She has done you wrong for so long and you are ready to walk. That needs to be the focus of your talk. If all she cares about is the financial aspect of splitting with you, then there is no real love there, and there probably never was. You will know if you more than just a meal ticket to her.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

What's cheaterville?

We have a councelling session on Wednesday, and I will be able to clear the air, and put the cards on the table, in a safe environment, where I feel safe to lay it on the line.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Craig49 said:


> What's cheaterville?


cheaterville.com


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> do I think she would cheat again......nope, but that's what I thought 12 years ago too.
> *EXACTLY!!!*
> 
> It's to bad that this has taken more than 12 years to even materialize, and stuffing it away was a method for me to cope.
> ...


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> Just had a thought that may assist me with moving forward in this situation.
> In order for me to fully feel that she is remorseful, I think she would have to tell everyone, via face book, email or by all other means to her friends, and our daughters.
> 
> Would this be out of line for me to demand this, I am thinking not.
> ...


Craig,

I posted some suggested wording on this earlier. I had your daughters and perhaps both sets of parents in mind, and that you would do it personally, I should have included my thoughts on that.

I tried to include in my suggestion something that shows you properly taking responsibility for leaving it un-dealt with for so long.

I would not expose much more beyond this except to friends who need to know so they can offer support.

If you were going to try and save the marriage I would include a statement asking for support in doing so.

Often we would suggest having your wife tell her parents, in your presence, by phone is fine but you need to hear it, and call them eventually to discuss it with them.

One of the purposes for full blown exposure is to stop the affair.

Another is to control the narrative and prevent more rugsweeping and gaslighting.

In your case the affair is over.

Her parents need to know for sure.

Also depending on the relationship, and assuming you are going to stay in the marriage, some would elect to not tell their (in this case your) parents.

Only because they would break off with your wife. Most will take it in stride for the sake of the marriage and grandkids.

The goal is not to humiliate her (as I see it in your situation) but provide an open environment that allows for the issue to be dealt with and for you to heal.

It is also a protection should things not work out, to get out front with the truth to prevent the rug sweeping and gaslighting of others.


===================
Also

It sounds like she has distanced herself from the affair by telling herself she "was in a bad place" so she "made a mistake" but is "not that kind of person".

Her evidence is that she has stayed in the marriage and suffered this long.

You have validated this by accepting things as they are.

To do what she did and do to you what she did was not a "mistake" it was a choice to place her needs above the well being of another human being, one with whom she had made vows to maintain a relationship with for your sake and the sake of her family. 

Its heinous to damage another for your own pleasure.

In all likely hood she lost her love and respect for you at that point, and wanted to feel the butterflies of new love the excitement and passion of romance but she knew she could not carry on long without losing her family and perhaps lifestyle.

She wanted to know if the grass was greener and sweeter on the other side. Perhaps she did not expect the guilt or damaged reputation to be so bitter. She did not consider how bitter it would be for you as well.

In most cases, if a woman is in love with her spouse having sex with another man is not even on the table, (fantasies aside) it would be a source of emotional pain for her to even consider it.

She likely has not loved you sense, I would address this honestly.

I just wanted to make a few things I said clear and add in some thoughts, I am sorry for you pain.

I wish you well.

Take care!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I would like to add my answer to the title of your post, "Should you stay", no you should not stay in the current condition, you should deal with the truth.

Should you stay or should you go? Let the truth decide that!

I wonder Craig, is there a woman in your proximity that you are interested in some way, and is this part of your motivation to move on now?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> Just had a thought that may assist me with moving forward in this situation.
> In order for me to fully feel that she is remorseful, I think she would have to tell everyone, via face book, email or by all other means to her friends, and our daughters.
> 
> Would this be out of line for me to demand this, I am thinking not.
> ...


I'd renounce to any kind of exposure.
Rugsweeping and exposure at this moment are unrelated in my book.
You are thinking on exposure as a magic bullet.
Dealing with it, the cheating and the marital dynamic afterwards won't involve magic bullets, the only way is through.

You are in the minset of compensation, justice... in the end aproppiate pushishment and humilliation, but it was exactly what was going on since DDay somehow.
I believe what you realy needs from her is validation, acknowledge, respect and empathy along with a little self examination and soul searching.

Exposure won't provide the safe enviroment for her to open up and go to the roots. Remember her mindset now is very superficial (dealing with comunication problems, really?).


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks for all the great posts and responses.
Airing my dirty laundry to the world is not the solution, and a Silver Bullit is something I think I have been waiting for to solve my problems.

Much thought and detail has been put into these responses, and sure justify's how I have felt and how I am feeling these days.
No there is no other woman. Have I had thoughts of one day actually being with someone, who treats me with respect, dignity which I deserve, yes I do think of that. This is not the reason why I am going through this. It is just my time to get on with things.
I cant live like this anymore, and being in Limbo does not help with the frustration. Only action helps.............and thats where I am at. Its been hard to try and dig my way out, but I am getting there.

I did not even realize that this may have damaged my daughters in thinking this is what marriage looks like. Makes me feel nautious thinking that I may have harmed them this way. It does make sence as we only know what we see when we grow up. 
Thats a huge AH HA moment for me right now. They need to know why there is so much distance between me and my wife, what the cause is, and that this is not what marriage should look like.
Lots of discoveries along the way over the past couple months.
Some big decisions need to be made by myself, rug sweeping does not work, and I am seeing the lasting effects it is having on me, and possibly my daughters.

Thanks for all who have responded, its a struggle but I am moving forward.

Craig


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

If you decide to out her, I'd do it in the gentle but honest way. Just tell them you are having marital problems and a lot of it stems from a 12 year old affair your wife had and the rugsweeping and cruelty of it. It has festered and left you detached and disillusioned of this marriage. And reassure that you two are getting counciling, but it is stirring up a lot of this past poison and unresolved negative feelings about yourself, the marriage and your wife. You are telling them so they know what is going on because they will probably note the tension and you'd like them to know why instead of guessing.

And if it doesn't work out, your girls will at least have a chance to mentally adapt to that instead of getting blindsided. You might ask the councelor on the side (your wife is going to be looking out for her best interest). You want to look out for the kids and family.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Racer

I like your response, sounds very tactful, respectful, and honest and I do think its a great approach.
I will definately bring this up with my councellor and the wife.
I dont think anyone should be blindsided, but you are so right that they need to know.
I do think I will get some resisitance, but thats part of the problem that will also need to be addressed.

I am sure my daughters would feel the importance of it all, and that they are respected in being told.

This also brings back to what Woodchuck stated before, now I get what he was trying to say to me, about my daughters.


Craig


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> Much thought and detail has been put into these responses, and sure justify's how I have felt and how I am feeling these days.


In my opinion Craig, most of your anger and resentment is due to your own, excuse the way I put this, wimping out when dealing with your wife's affair. By your own admission, you begged and pleading with her not to go bang this guy, she basically told you to go the hell, and you come back waving a white flag talking about you daughters. You've even went along with the "gag order" she imposed on you. It's easy to see who's the commanding general and the buck private is in your camp my man. If you don't know, here's a hint. You ain't the General. And yes, more than likely your quest to save your daughters by staying in this hell, supporting, and cowering to this dame has resulted in a negative influence on these kids. If you're going to tell them about their mother's affair, be sure to let them know that most men wouldn't tolerate this kind of crap. It may help them in their future relationships.
You've been on this disastrous course for the past 12 years. You've always had the keys to get out of this self imposed prison. When are you going to use them.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Leave your daughter out of this.
Man, if your reasoning for staying all those 12 years was to protect them it's now when this kind of protection needs to be put in the forehead.
Kids have all kind of conflicting emotions about this, don't risk. They act more from their emotional side than the intelect or the moral side. It can backfire.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

This goes back to another question about telling them whats going on, being up front, so they know whats happening around them. Being that they are 21 and 19, I am sure that they know somethings up. My girls are awesome and I think keeping them in the dark all this time has not done them any favours.
The secrecy of all this, the rug sweeping is not the solution.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

They are plenty old enough for the truth. They deserve it jmo.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

I agree that they need to know.

Craig


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I believed them younger.
If things come to D they should know, they should know why you (your side of the street first) couldn't provide a more loving environment. Things will make sense to them.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

No they are both adults.
It's only fair for them to know why I go to meetings during the week, and I don't like telling them a lie about it.
I don't think the wife will agree, but that's something she will need to deal with.
After all I did not have the affair and I am so done with the cover ups, and all this denial.
It's time she woman's up to what she has done, in order to move forward.
I worry about my girls taking sides, but that's not my problem, it's hers.

Craig


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

You need to release your pain. Tell your girls. Write your W a letter using what you have posted in TAM.

Give her the letter and leave. Come back in an hour and ask where do we go from here.

Be sure to include all your feelings and pain.

You will get your answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Very similar story to mine in many respects. A few comments / suggestions.

1) I stayed for the kids. Even if the marriage had ended after they were grown, no regrets that I stayed.

2) Communicate with your wife openly, honestly and completely. The marriage is doomed otherwise. Get EVERYTHING out in the open, no matter how painful, otherwise it will continue to eat at you. And ending the marriage is going to hurt, so you are not avoiding pain by suppressing things. It actually feels good if you can get through it. Really good.

3) If, after talking, you can't sort things out, then end the marriage. Or you may find that things get better. No way to know until you try. Follow your heart on that one.

4) I would not personally go exposing far and wide without a good reason. Some people here are hungry for revenge, some see retribution as justice. I don't ascribe to those perspectives. Even if you divorce you will still need to speak to your wife again and she will still be the mother of your children. I did not tell my kids, but if I were to, I really liked Racer's choice of words.

5) Don't be afraid to be selfish here about what you want. My take would be, your wife violated the marriage vow, and you are free. I am not advocating vindictiveness, but nor should you worry only about her feelings.

6) My wife felt incredible guilt over the affair (afterwards, anyway) and felt like any discussion of it was a punishment. It took a long time for her to understand that I needed to talk through it and needed the truth. For a long time she felt like trying to minimise it was the kindest thing. Totally wrong, but I understand her perspective. Tell your wife from me "Any lies, any coverup, any leaving out details, does not help. It just makes things worse." And if she wants to discuss it, I am happy to justify that. But the dumbest choice she can make is to suppress.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

This is not about revenge. Your girls view of marriage is based offf of yours. They more than likely have a negative view, By understanding what happen may help them in the long run.

They will also see the impact an A has on a marriage.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

Jim and Wazza, you guys are exactly correct with what you have just said.
I did write a letter to my wife, explaining exactly what she has done to me, and it's very detailed. My therapist asked me to write it, but she has not seen it, as it was not suppose to be for her eyes.
Tomorrow in our counseling I plan on reading it to her. The idea of the letter was for me to release anger and hurt, and for me to do that, she needs to hear it.

As for my girls, they need to know for the reasons I posted above.
The secrecy needs to be exposed, not to hurt anyone, but to set this free, to a select audience of course.

If I get push back from the spouse on this, well that's a red flag for sure and will have to deal with this as it comes.
I will also mention to the therapist about the disclosure to my girls, and the reasons why they need to know.

Craig


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Craig49 said:


> Jim and Wazza, you guys are exactly correct with what you have just said.
> I did write a letter to my wife, explaining exactly what she has done to me, and it's very detailed. My therapist asked me to write it, but she has not seen it, as it was not suppose to be for her eyes.
> Tomorrow in our counseling I plan on reading it to her. The idea of the letter was for me to release anger and hurt, and for me to do that, she needs to hear it.
> 
> ...


You'll obviously get pushback from your spouse. She's demanded you keep it a secret from everyone for 12 years. Do you really think she's going to be okay with telling the 2 most important people in your lives? 

My opinion is you tell your daughters only if you feel it is a necessary explanation for your relationship with your wife, and/or its demise. If you plan on carrying on with the marriage, I think it's a bad idea to tell them.

Let's assume you feel it is necessary. Then, don't tell your wife first, for God's sakes. She'll just talk you out of it and you'll be back here asking for more advice. Just pull your daughters into the family room when your wife won't be home for a few hours and tell them. Explain it happened 12 years ago and as a result it has caused distance and will ultimately lead to divorce. Tell them you stayed together to keep an intact home for them, that you both love them, but now that they are older, divorce is on the horizon.

My guess is they won't be all that surprised.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> Jim and Wazza, you guys are exactly correct with what you have just said.
> I did write a letter to my wife, explaining exactly what she has done to me, and it's very detailed. My therapist asked me to write it, but she has not seen it, as it was not suppose to be for her eyes.
> Tomorrow in our counseling I plan on reading it to her. The idea of the letter was for me to release anger and hurt, and for me to do that, she needs to hear it.
> 
> ...


I wish you luck. This needs to be out in the open - you also need to work on you - become stronger and smarter. Whether you R or D your wife can not get a free pass - reading these posts on TAM - one thing is certain - rug-sweeping is devastating and causes more pain in the long run. :nono:


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Craig

You are doing the right thing. 

For you and your wife. She might not agree but tough love now is better than never.

Keep pushing forward.

HM


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Craig,

This might be a bit late in the comments, as I have followed the story and it sounds like you are getting some good, useful advice here. I want to relate something that I've gotten from my W's therapy sessions when she got our of her first, very abusive marriage. Changing gender here to match you (and the exercise I went through with her).

Remember when you were a little boy, say, 11 years old, and you thought about what would the girl be like who you would marry and be with? Mine was one who would hang curtains in our house, plant flowers, I would get to kiss her and hold her hands (embarrassing things for an 11 year old but I wanted that), she liked good food and even wore an apron while cooking, things like that. It was very clean, very innocent, very loving. 

Do you have ANY of those things you thought you would, when you imagined being married in your future? You deserve to have MOST, if not each and every one of those things. That's what's good for your heart. Anything less and you will always feel unfulfilled. 

And today, you feel at the very least unfulfilled. So it's time to get out the old retrospectoscope and look at your life, what you wanted out of it before adulthood came along, and try to get back to that comfortable ideal of your childhood. There are important things for your heart in that child's mind; pure, simple and innocent things that make your core feel satisfied. 

Find yourself, find that boy, then find that woman. She's out there. I found mine. It took many years and I kissed a lot of girl frogs before I got here, but she's there. And my 11 year old inner child is starting to feel pretty good about life, for once.

I hope that helps.


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## Craig49 (Jul 17, 2013)

I was up very late last night in discussions with my wife about this.
She does not want the girls to know, she feels that they would hate her forever. I understand where she is coming from. I am not about to just blurt it out. If we do R, then there is no need for them to know.
Obviously if we D, they will know.
She says she has healed on her own, and she is good, this floored me..............denial is running high.
She blamed me for the sweeping, hmmm, I did have a part of it, and i do remember her asking for a divorce at the time. Of course I said no, she was in no state of mind to even know what she was asking. So did I have a part to play, yes I certainly did.
The conversation then turned to all the resenment she has against me, most unknown to me.
Seems like we are in a blame game at the moment.
Not sure if thats progress, but boy it is difficult to remain calm, but I am forging ahead.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Your wife is just one of those wonderful types who just refuse to accept responsibility for anything. It is those types who also seem to have a propensity for cheating. 

I really don't know why this is such a tough decision. This attitude plus all the other crappy ways she treats you? She does not seem like a keeper to me.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> I was up very late last night in discussions with my wife about this.
> She does not want the girls to know, she feels that they would hate her forever. I understand where she is coming from. I am not about to just blurt it out. If we do R, then there is no need for them to know.
> Obviously if we D, they will know.
> She says she has healed on her own, and she is good, this floored me..............denial is running high.
> ...


read about the 180 and do it. She needs to be remorseful for her actions. You need to be remorseful for not being a great husband but not remorseful that you had any part of her affair.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Craig49 said:


> I was up very late last night in discussions with my wife about this.
> She does not want the girls to know, she feels that they would hate her forever. I understand where she is coming from. I am not about to just blurt it out. If we do R, then there is no need for them to know.
> Obviously if we D, they will know.
> She says she has healed on her own, and she is good, this floored me..............denial is running high.
> ...


She's healed? She's healed? She cheated. She is right about one thing you did assist in the rug sweeping. Work though these issues with a counselor - she wants to continue to rug sweep - no way. You need to decide once and for all what you want and follow through. I'd definitely tell your daughters if you are going to D - she sounds like the type to turn them against you.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> She's healed? She's healed? She cheated. She is right about one thing you did assist in the rug sweeping. Work though these issues with a counselor - she wants to continue to rug sweep - no way. You need to decide once and for all what you want and follow through. I'd definitely tell your daughters if you are going to D - she sounds like the type to turn them against you.


I think you got your answer last night. Tell your daughters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rug sweeping also allows the WS to get away with it scott free - and that does no one any good in the long run. The WS has to own their sh!t - no excuse justifies cheating - she has to own it or you need to get a new start. No WS should be allowed to walk away scott free - ever.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

She is not showing remorse and is still blaming you for her behavior....

What more is there to know? There is no way you can possibly have a successful R with her attitude. Trust me, I've been there done that. 5 years of false R here....and I left when he was on his way into starting another affair. 

Don't waste 5 years of your life. If your WW doesn't find that remorse and wants to continuously rug sweep, it may buy you time, but the same issues/problems will creep in down the road. She has to look at herself and her reasons as to why she cheated on you. If she never gets to the root of HER actions, your marriage will not survive.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Woah there!!!!!

The marriage is in a bad way....of course there is resentment on both sides. Woud people prefer she lied to say the right thing?

Keep talking. Keep confronting the issues.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Woah there!!!!!
> 
> The marriage is in a bad way....of course there is resentment on both sides. Woud people prefer she lied to say the right thing?
> 
> Keep talking. Keep confronting the issues.


You are correct she is telling the truth she has zero respect for him because of the rug sweeping years ago and is still blaming him.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Craig49 said:


> She says she has healed on her own, and she is good, this floored me..............denial is running high.


This is a ridicules statement!
Firstly she is the one who cheated and burned down your marriage.

Its up to you to decide "when she is good" i.e. the wife you need her to be.

Her statement means that she is good without you, that kind of healing is extremely selfish. Hardly proof of having dealt with her issues and grown from them.

Secondly "I'm good" completely ignores her responsibility to help you heal.





Craig49 said:


> She blamed me for the sweeping, hmmm, I did have a part of it, and i do remember her asking for a divorce at the time.


She asked for a divorce because she did not want to stay in a relationship she was not happy with and face the consequences of her actions.

You have an unspoken agreement of silence for her to stay.
You know better now. You owe her nothing!



Craig49 said:


> The conversation then turned to all the resenment she has against me, most unknown to me.
> Seems like we are in a blame game at the moment.


Ok don't be thick here, of course she has legitimate resentment toward you.

A woman will feel emotional pain when her husband is even slightly aggressive or harsh and unkind in some way, its how they are wired. 

Multiply this by what 12 years, yes she will have resentment.

(Thanks to Tunera for opening my eyes to this)

Part of your foolishly conceived unspoken agreement, ...Her "I will stay in the marriage, not cheat again, if you keep silent, I will absorbed your anger and bitterness as the price of your willingness to rug sweep"

...You "I will keep silent about the affair and eat my pain, provide for my family as long as you don't do it again."


You both agreed "Oh and BTW our relationship will be $hit".

SO here you are changing the rules (don't get me wrong I think you have to), she is leaving it up to you. Acquiescing now just as she did when divorce was on the table the first time.

*This is very passive (dare I add aggressive), its her personality. Unlikely she will take up the work of reconciliation until this is dealt with in counseling!*

Its likely you are returning to the point that your progress in the relationship was arrested so many years ago. You are going to "rug sweep" or not and she is willing to divorce you or stay, oh and BTW please don't tell the girls, I'm afraid they will hate me. (Unlikely if she is remorseful, a good example for them, and she would be owning her $hit as they say, instead of avoiding it, yet again)

Now you say this...


Craig49 said:


> If we do R, then there is no need for them to know.
> Obviously if we D, they will know.


Thickness meter is pegging again!

If you divorce of course they will know.

If you reconcile they need to know even more.
1. To lend support.
2. To understand what the reason for this new effort at healing is.
3. To see first hand the damage that infidelity causes, this is God's gift to them.
4. Out of respect for them.
5.(This is the most important reason IMO) They will suspect something, guaranteed! 

They will likely and correctly guess who the offending party is (WW). 

If you successfully reconcile in an open and honest way, with you wife owning her choice to cheat, they will gain more respect for her, and there is no reason that they would hate her having seen the effort and pain she endured to make it right. (Which sad to say is unlikely on your WW's part anyway.) 

If you do not successfully reconcile you are back to divorce anyway, but this time they will be hurt that you could not respect and trust them enough to include them in the process.

Plus you will have demonstrated, once again, the un-manly art of rug sweeping. Is that an example you want them to follow?

End of #5

We often say here that the WS has to do the heavy lifting.

Lets turn on the "Heavy Lifting" meter to asses your wife's willingness to do so. 

Entering data...


Craig49 said:


> She says she has healed on her own, and she is good, this floored me..............denial is running high.


Beep Beep, Beep, & Chug, Chug, Chug, ...OMG the needle never moved!

If you do not get the effort required from your wife to reconcile, you will get on and off the transport at the same stop, and have gotten nowhere! If that is the case I hope you like the scenery because this is your life.

(This "effort" may come in fits and spurts, but it has to be there to move on.)

In this case "past performance" may be "indicative of future results".

I wish you well,
Take care!


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

tom67 said:


> You are correct she is telling the truth she has zero respect for him because of the rug sweeping years ago and is still blaming him.


Of course.

I am not defending her position and I am not saying they should stay together. But if you want a chance at staying together, then you really need to have a decent go at getting to the truth together. And that means unpleasant things being said.

We have a few sound bites that were painful to Craig. We don't have the entire conversation, we don't have the context.

The thing to do with those painful sound bites is to argue your case, not just to walk away because she doesn't already see things your way.

Start with this question "do you want to be together?" And what about "do you accept any responsibility for the pain the affair caused?" Or "how do I know you would never do it again?" You want to know details if what happened, what she was thinking at the time, ask. And of course be ready for painful answers.

What about "are you remorseful? How do I know you are?"

And whether or not you tell the girls....it is not rug sweeping not to tell them. Rug sweeping is refusing to confront issues. It is not about who you do or do not tell.

She has spent 12 years, at least, getting to where she is. It's not going to heal in 12 minutes.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Wazza said:


> And whether or not you tell the girls....it is not rug sweeping not to tell them. Rug sweeping is refusing to confront issues. It is not about who you do or do not tell.


There must be some TAM dictionary I am unaware of.

Exposure and rug sweeping go hand in hand in some measure.

Tell or not, its his choice, no doubt. 

But I can think of no upside to withholding that from his adult daughters.

(Especially as he says, if they divorce the daughters will know but if they reconcile they will not.)
wow.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Decorum said:


> Wazza said:
> 
> 
> > And whether or not you tell the girls....it is not rug sweeping not to tell them. Rug sweeping is refusing to confront issues. It is not about who you do or do not tell.
> ...


No dictionary, just a point of view. 

But I would be looking more at the upside of telling them, and if I couldn't see it I wouldn't do it.

You laid out some good thoughts on that, I just happen not to agree with them. But it is Craig's decision.

Telling the kids about the affair would, I think, upset them. I would only do it if I had a specific reason. My kids do not get to know all the details of my marriage, and in the event we split up in future they do not get put in a position of taking sides.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Fair enough, agreement and respect are two different things.
I value your insights Wazza.



Wazza said:


> *My kids do not get to know all the details of my marriage*, and in the event we split up in future they do not get put in a position of taking sides.


This (in bold) is a terrible overstatement in light of our discussion, but one I agree with, my kids do not know *all* the details of my marriage, we are specifically addressing the affair. I understand that this is part of the "all details", our specific disagreement is over this specific detail.

Ok I get it, he has both sides, now.

Your next point...

Putting the kids in a position to take sides is not something that happens by some kind of passive photosynthesis, it's the parents who choose to make it that way or not.

That is a hateful thing to do.

However, he said they will know if they divorce, so there it is.
Take sides kids, because it is a requirement in divorce, especially if you know who was wrong the most?

No, we see parents taking great pains here to prevent this from happening in their divorce.

SO they won't take sides if we divorce and don't tell them?

I know this is one post too many, so yes we can agree to disagree.

Take care!


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Decorum said:


> Fair enough, agreement and respect are two different things.
> I value your insights Wazza.
> 
> 
> ...


Thing to remember is, in the event of divorce, both sides often believe they are right. So how do you judge the line between giving the kids the truth (if both sides are trying) vs dragging them into the disagreement?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Craig49 said:


> I was up very late last night in discussions with my wife about this.
> She does not want the girls to know, she feels that they would hate her forever. I understand where she is coming from. I am not about to just blurt it out. If we do R, then there is no need for them to know.
> Obviously if we D, they will know.
> She says she has healed on her own, and she is good, this floored me..............denial is running high.
> ...


Jesus Christ.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Craig - do you want the marriage to work, or not?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Jesus Christ.


No, I don't think he's having anything to do with this clusterfvck.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I admit I don't know all the details as to what's really going on, but it sounds an awful like Craig is sending a message to his old lady, who doesn't want the kids to know about her affair, that "if you divorce me, I'm telling the girls".


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I admit I don't know all the details as to what's really going on, but it sounds an awful like Craig is sending a message to his old lady, who doesn't want the kids to know about her affair, that "if you divorce me, I'm telling the girls".


He's sending a message alright, but that ain't it!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I admit I don't know all the details as to what's really going on, but it sounds an awful like Craig is sending a message to his old lady, who doesn't want the kids to know about her affair, that "if you divorce me, I'm telling the girls".


Yep.

Do you want reconcilation because she loves you and is remorseful or because she does not want her girls to hate her.

Imagine how fun an "R" like that would be.

That does not mean its an either or proposition, just go in with your eyes open.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Craig,
Be sure that whatever you do, you do it because you really believe in it, not just because you are navigating other peoples disapproval.

This will be the death of any future relationship. 

It seemed to me as I was posting earlier that your statement that you would tell the girls about the affair if you divorced was a tip of the hat to the posters who are supporting you here, and your decision to not tell them if you reconciled was in deference to your wife.

If your decisions are based on a desire to please (fear based) then you have to come to terms with that. It would be hard to even reconcile under a “method of operation” like that. 

I hate to say this out loud but whatever you decide it should (IMO) be based on a principle, a “hill that you will die on”.

Yes, in flight corrections should be made, but don’t let circumstances and other people make your your decisions for you.

Take care!


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