# With SO for 2.5 years, unsure of moving forward and marriage itself



## sagoapa

New member here planning on popping the question to my wonderful girlfriend. I'm having terrible cold feet about whether to propose. She's perfect—beautiful, kind, loving, faithful, sweet, etc. But I'm having qualms about the idea of marriage altogether.

TL;DR
I genuinely want to have a family and be a father, but I'm starting to fear marriage, for the first time, perhaps because I am THIS CLOSE to proposing to her. I fear going into something that's going to simply turn into a duty, and nothing more. I don't want to end up like some of my unhappy friends.

full scoop:

I have friends who have been married for years, and a few of them seem really unhappy. Some of them have revealed to me that they have essentially no sex life. This is an important factor to me and I am somewhat convinced after browsing these forums that it's very common, even probable, for sex to essentially end after marriage (twice a year is hardly better than never).

Additionally, one of my friends is going through a divorce after 8 years and it's wreaking havoc on his mental health. He's an insecure wreck. The cause for the divorce was that his wife didn't want kids and he did. She refused to budge. I think my fiancé really does want kids, so that's not a risk, but still. That friend of mine has been calling me very frequently and complaining about marriage as an institution, and he's slowly starting to affect me. Every few days he calls me to discuss how marriage is a failed artificial outdated institution and it's driving me insane.

I'm starting to feel afraid of losing control and finding myself bound to a piece of paper that basically says I'm screwed if something turns out unexpected.

Sometimes I feel like I'm putting pressure on myself to go through with marriage for societal reasons, or to feel like I'm part of my extended religious family (all married fundamentalist churchgoers, whereas I am agnostic). I do want to be accepted in their world, although I'll never be one of them. Of course I love my GF and I am also waking up and realizing that if I marry her, this will be forever, and I want to be solid for her and I don't want divorce to be on the table going in.

Unfortunately, after speaking with married friends and perusing these forums, I'm starting to grow a little cynical. Perhaps I'm selfish, but I'm not even sure what marriage is for anymore, aside from raising children. If sex is going to end after marriage, how am I not going to end up feeling like a prisoner?

A little more about me, I'm mid 30s, she's late 20s. Been together 2.5 years. Spent 9 months of that apart in an LDR during which we talked every day, stayed faithful, and were eventually reunited. Have been living together for 1 year. I am on the fence about whether to propose to her, not because there's anything wrong with her, but because I'm not sure I'm "made" for commitment.

She's a very sweet, very kind, very selfless individual. I've dated many women, and I feel confident in my assessment that she is truly a "keeper"—the kind of woman you really want to take home to Mom and Dad. She has one of the purest hearts I've encountered. I trust her with all my being. She's beautiful, but modest. She is a family woman and likes children.

She has tons of respect for me. I work very hard, am an above-average communicator, and really try hard to be a good partner to her. Of course, we all have our flaws, me included, and it seems that no matter how low I fall (for instance, if I lose my temper), she always forgives me. I value this immensely. She holds no grudges, she doesn’t ****-test me, she doesn’t rebuke or yell at me. She’s not demanding, nor is she high-maintenance or hard to please.

I love her and I have made tons of sacrifices for her over the past few years. I've been faithful. I've provided lots for her. We do spend lots of time together, and I enjoy her being around.

Perhaps I don't feel like I "need" her enough. I don't feel like I depend on her for anything, really. I don't really depend on her for emotional support, financial support, etc. Is that feeling of "dependence" necessary for a guy to feel walking into a marriage? Perhaps I'm just too damn independent for marriage? Is there something wrong with me?


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## Diana7

If you don't think you are 'made' for commitment then let her go to find a good man who would not hesitate to commit to her and will love and appreciate her for life. She sounds really nice but it's seems that isn't enough for you, and you would rather listen to your bitter, angry and cynical friend than marry the person you are supposed to love. Yes he feels agrieved at how his wife changed her mind about children understandably, but that is no reflection on marriage but on her. 

If you don't want to get married, don't waste any more of her life, if she wants children she can't wait forever. I don't know how old you both are, but women cant wait forever to have children.

Btw I think marriage is a fantastic thing that is far from bring just 'a piece of paper'. The certificate is merely the proof of the marriage not the marriage itself. If sex is going to stop then it will whether married or not. 

I also know countless very strong and happy marriages, many of them of 40-50 years length.
So please don't string her along, she deserves better. She deserves a man who will commit.

At the very least you should tell her that you dont want to commit to marriage and let her decide whether to stay or go.


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## Lostinthought61

Have you sat down and honestly communicated these thoughts with her, your fear that your sex life will end, or afraid she will change her mind about having kids? 

Look what you are feeling is normal and guess what I am sure she has her own trepedations as well...but the only way to figure out that is to talk to her about it have an honest dialogue about it....remember there are just as many successful married stories out there as there are fail ones.b


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## Luckylucky

Wow… she sounds like a catch!! What a lady.

Is it possible your friends can see this, and are in your face trying to steer you away because she is so good?

There’s a saying, you know who your friends are in your darkest times. Or something like that.

But beware the friends who can’t be happy for you. You know… your life is going great, and they suddenly find ways to darken things for you. Like how they heard terrible reviews about your new car. Or your new job will make you have a breakdown.

Pay attention to the ones who can see you have a good thing going and try to deter you from it. Because imagine you break up with her… and one of those miserable buddies move in and give her and ear to speak into or a shoulder to cry on…

She sounds amazing, you say so yourself.

But but but. If you don’t love her, don’t desire her and your friends’ bad marriages aren’t the reason you’re having cold feet, then DO NOT marry her. She wants to feel like a prize, not a ‘may as well marry her’. Because we women just KNOW and that’s the number one thing that’s going to make you very very undesirable in bed. No woman feels hot under the covers with a husband whose mind is full of regret. It’s ugly.


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## D0nnivain

Marriage is work & it's not to be undertaken lightly. It's also not disposable IMO. Sometimes you have to fight for it & your individual needs take a back seat to the needs of the team. That is hard for people to process. The whole "me" generation made all of us less likely to sacrifice for the greater good. 

You use "duty" as bad thing. It's not. It's honorable. Reframe your thinking on the subject & things will look brighter. 

I read 2 pop psychology books many years ago by Dr. Laura. Basically she's a old-fashioned almost misogynist but her books _The Care & Feeding of a Marriage_ and _The Care & Feeding of a Husband_ boil down to being appreciative. A lot of the advise is absolute bunk & should not be taken literally but if you can be happy that you have a partner, that they are home at night with you, that you have certain things together, you can go far. It's about being grateful for what you have & not thinking marriage is some fairytale where once you say I do everything is perfect all the time.


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## Blondilocks

sagoapa said:


> I have made tons of sacrifices for her over the past few years.


Please expand on this. What sacrifices?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

sagoapa said:


> New member here planning on popping the question to my wonderful girlfriend. I'm having terrible cold feet about whether to propose. She's perfect—beautiful, kind, loving, faithful, sweet, etc. But I'm having qualms about the idea of marriage altogether.
> 
> TL;DR
> I genuinely want to have a family and be a father, but I'm starting to fear marriage, for the first time, perhaps because I am THIS CLOSE to proposing to her. I fear going into something that's going to simply turn into a duty, and nothing more. I don't want to end up like some of my unhappy friends.
> 
> full scoop:
> 
> I have friends who have been married for years, and a few of them seem really unhappy. Some of them have revealed to me that they have essentially no sex life. This is an important factor to me and I am somewhat convinced after browsing these forums that it's very common, even probable, for sex to essentially end after marriage (twice a year is hardly better than never).
> 
> Additionally, one of my friends is going through a divorce after 8 years and it's wreaking havoc on his mental health. He's an insecure wreck. The cause for the divorce was that his wife didn't want kids and he did. She refused to budge. I think my fiancé really does want kids, so that's not a risk, but still. That friend of mine has been calling me very frequently and complaining about marriage as an institution, and he's slowly starting to affect me. Every few days he calls me to discuss how marriage is a failed artificial outdated institution and it's driving me insane.
> 
> I'm starting to feel afraid of losing control and finding myself bound to a piece of paper that basically says I'm screwed if something turns out unexpected.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like I'm putting pressure on myself to go through with marriage for societal reasons, or to feel like I'm part of my extended religious family (all married fundamentalist churchgoers, whereas I am agnostic). I do want to be accepted in their world, although I'll never be one of them. Of course I love my GF and I am also waking up and realizing that if I marry her, this will be forever, and I want to be solid for her and I don't want divorce to be on the table going in.
> 
> Unfortunately, after speaking with married friends and perusing these forums, I'm starting to grow a little cynical. Perhaps I'm selfish, but I'm not even sure what marriage is for anymore, aside from raising children. If sex is going to end after marriage, how am I not going to end up feeling like a prisoner?
> 
> A little more about me, I'm mid 30s, she's late 20s. Been together 2.5 years. Spent 9 months of that apart in an LDR during which we talked every day, stayed faithful, and were eventually reunited. Have been living together for 1 year. I am on the fence about whether to propose to her, not because there's anything wrong with her, but because I'm not sure I'm "made" for commitment.
> 
> She's a very sweet, very kind, very selfless individual. I've dated many women, and I feel confident in my assessment that she is truly a "keeper"—the kind of woman you really want to take home to Mom and Dad. She has one of the purest hearts I've encountered. I trust her with all my being. She's beautiful, but modest. She is a family woman and likes children.
> 
> She has tons of respect for me. I work very hard, am an above-average communicator, and really try hard to be a good partner to her. Of course, we all have our flaws, me included, and it seems that no matter how low I fall (for instance, if I lose my temper), she always forgives me. I value this immensely. She holds no grudges, she doesn’t ****-test me, she doesn’t rebuke or yell at me. She’s not demanding, nor is she high-maintenance or hard to please.
> 
> I love her and I have made tons of sacrifices for her over the past few years. I've been faithful. I've provided lots for her. We do spend lots of time together, and I enjoy her being around.
> 
> Perhaps I don't feel like I "need" her enough. I don't feel like I depend on her for anything, really. I don't really depend on her for emotional support, financial support, etc. Is that feeling of "dependence" necessary for a guy to feel walking into a marriage? Perhaps I'm just too damn independent for marriage? Is there something wrong with me?


You shouldn't really need her, or any woman, a W should be a happy complement to your life. 

It's your call, not your friends, no matter which way you go. It is an important decision. Hang in there.


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## re16

All the things you are mentioning that you fear could happen are exactly the kind of things you talk about with a future spouse before marriage.

Maybe she would agree that marriage isn't the best thing, or maybe you will send her running for the hills, but if you do proceed, at least it has been discussed.

Usually those that communicate well don't have these issues, or they have some form of the issues, learn to communicate properly and they figure it out.


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## Quad73

sagoapa said:


> Perhaps I don't feel like I "need" her enough. I don't feel like I depend on her for anything, really. I don't really depend on her for emotional support, financial support, etc. Is that feeling of "dependence" necessary for a guy to feel walking into a marriage? Perhaps I'm just too damn independent for marriage? Is there something wrong with me?


NEED is maybe the wrong word, at least I wouldn't choose it.

After many many years of dating women, when I met my wife to be : 

* I recognized that I wanted to help this person achieve their goals in life. I could do that, and I knew she would support my ventures as well.

* She understood me at a core level, to the point of knowing why I loved the music I loved, the food I loved, etc. And she was a heck of a lot of fun to be around.

* We enjoyed the same activities.

* The sex was great and still is 20yrs on.

* She was not going to get married because it was an item on her checklist.

* She was sensible with money.

* Our flaws were not dealbreakers for the other.

* We're both independent people. 

* Our differences were complimentary - I'd be able to take things she was good at and make changes in myself for my own betterment, and vice versa. 

I'm trying to think of what else felt different, and right... If this is helpful @sagoapa , I'll add more if I can. If not I wish you luck in whatever path you choose.


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## Luckylucky

The important thing to do is not get married if you’re having so many doubts about marriage. It’s really ok to be single, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with this, and it may hurt her in the short term.

The thing you don’t want to do, is be posting here in 12 years: ‘I never wanted to be married, but I felt pressured. Then we had 3 kids and I never really wanted kids either but I love them so much. My wife was always yelling at me to spend weekends together but I was independent and needed downtime with my mates. And I’ve met this woman at work and my wife has stopped having sex with me and I can’t stop thinking about this other woman. I just never had that passion for my wife, this woman really gets me. But I love my kids so much and don’t want to destroy our family’.

See, the first part, how you’re feeling right now is totally ok. But don’t be writing that second story. You can be single, or you can wait too, that’s ok and the right thing to do. I know plenty of single people and also a few men who married for the first time in their 40s.


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## Mr Steel

There are no guarantees unfortunately. I would discuss everything you feel and think about with her now. Be 100% honest and get her response/feedback. Know that being married will require effort and compromise from both of you, Be clear from the start about where you want to be in 1,5,10 years etc.


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## Al_Bundy

Here's the thing, your assessment on the risks of marriage aren't wrong. The most you can do is before you propose (if you do) is bring up the idea of a prenup. You say she's all great, but you probably haven't really tested her yet. You talk about making tons of sacrifice whatever the hell that means. 

So tell angel that you want a prenup and see if she keeps her halo or if you see a crack in the armor.


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## Blondilocks

Well, great. We're talking to ourselves - again.


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## ccpowerslave

If you’re asking a question about it you’re not ready, in my opinion. If she’s for you and you want to lock it down you should be excited about proposing not questioning it.


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## Al_Bundy

ccpowerslave said:


> If you’re asking a question about it you’re not ready, in my opinion. If she’s for you and you want to lock it down you should be excited about proposing not questioning it.


Sounds like the big head is starting to kick in. Something is triggering his logic. Maybe something about the 9 months they were playing the long distance game, maybe he recognizes a pattern in his relationship he saw in his friends.......

The uncomfortable truth here is when your gut is talking to you like this, it's usually right.


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## SunCMars

_"The only thing to fear is the Dear, herself"._

I would snap her up, marry her.
Ladies like her are always in short supply.

You WILL NOT find one better, only different looking.

God (or Fate, if you will) is giving you a gift.
Take it.

If she does not work out, give the gift back.
More likely....... if the gift of her, does not work out, it is more likely your lack of being, too, that gift.



_King Brian-_


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## SunCMars

I will, I won't, I can't, should I?

Indecisive men are so unappealing.


_Nemesis-_


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## Nailhead

sagoapa said:


> New member here planning on popping the question to my wonderful girlfriend. I'm having terrible cold feet about whether to propose. She's perfect—beautiful, kind, loving, faithful, sweet, etc. But I'm having qualms about the idea of marriage altogether.
> 
> TL;DR
> I genuinely want to have a family and be a father, but I'm starting to fear marriage, for the first time, perhaps because I am THIS CLOSE to proposing to her. I fear going into something that's going to simply turn into a duty, and nothing more. I don't want to end up like some of my unhappy friends.
> 
> full scoop:
> 
> I have friends who have been married for years, and a few of them seem really unhappy. Some of them have revealed to me that they have essentially no sex life. This is an important factor to me and I am somewhat convinced after browsing these forums that it's very common, even probable, for sex to essentially end after marriage (twice a year is hardly better than never).
> 
> Additionally, one of my friends is going through a divorce after 8 years and it's wreaking havoc on his mental health. He's an insecure wreck. The cause for the divorce was that his wife didn't want kids and he did. She refused to budge. I think my fiancé really does want kids, so that's not a risk, but still. That friend of mine has been calling me very frequently and complaining about marriage as an institution, and he's slowly starting to affect me. Every few days he calls me to discuss how marriage is a failed artificial outdated institution and it's driving me insane.
> 
> I'm starting to feel afraid of losing control and finding myself bound to a piece of paper that basically says I'm screwed if something turns out unexpected.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like I'm putting pressure on myself to go through with marriage for societal reasons, or to feel like I'm part of my extended religious family (all married fundamentalist churchgoers, whereas I am agnostic). I do want to be accepted in their world, although I'll never be one of them. Of course I love my GF and I am also waking up and realizing that if I marry her, this will be forever, and I want to be solid for her and I don't want divorce to be on the table going in.
> 
> Unfortunately, after speaking with married friends and perusing these forums, I'm starting to grow a little cynical. Perhaps I'm selfish, but I'm not even sure what marriage is for anymore, aside from raising children. If sex is going to end after marriage, how am I not going to end up feeling like a prisoner?
> 
> A little more about me, I'm mid 30s, she's late 20s. Been together 2.5 years. Spent 9 months of that apart in an LDR during which we talked every day, stayed faithful, and were eventually reunited. Have been living together for 1 year. I am on the fence about whether to propose to her, not because there's anything wrong with her, but because I'm not sure I'm "made" for commitment.
> 
> She's a very sweet, very kind, very selfless individual. I've dated many women, and I feel confident in my assessment that she is truly a "keeper"—the kind of woman you really want to take home to Mom and Dad. She has one of the purest hearts I've encountered. I trust her with all my being. She's beautiful, but modest. She is a family woman and likes children.
> 
> She has tons of respect for me. I work very hard, am an above-average communicator, and really try hard to be a good partner to her. Of course, we all have our flaws, me included, and it seems that no matter how low I fall (for instance, if I lose my temper), she always forgives me. I value this immensely. She holds no grudges, she doesn’t ****-test me, she doesn’t rebuke or yell at me. She’s not demanding, nor is she high-maintenance or hard to please.
> 
> I love her and I have made tons of sacrifices for her over the past few years. I've been faithful. I've provided lots for her. We do spend lots of time together, and I enjoy her being around.
> 
> Perhaps I don't feel like I "need" her enough. I don't feel like I depend on her for anything, really. I don't really depend on her for emotional support, financial support, etc. Is that feeling of "dependence" necessary for a guy to feel walking into a marriage? Perhaps I'm just too damn independent for marriage? Is there something wrong with me?


You are fearful of commitment. Not to worry. Another will see her qualities and that will be that for you. She may not need you enough after all. Now, for the "failed marriages" you know of, there is generally more to the story. Marriage takes work. But the rewards are many for that work. People tend to go on cruise control after the wedding and kids. Totally wrong. Both should continue dating long after the marriage and until death. Both should appreciate and hold each other as number one over everything. Many don't. This results in resentment and feeling unwanted. A brew for failing marriages. There is a plethora of material to read concerning marriage. There is this very website that TALKS ABOUT MARRIAGE. My marriage is 27 years strong. I messed up a lot. I learned a lot. But once I fully understood what it takes to make a marriage all it can be did my marriage go to a new level. It is a level of pure enjoyment. Do not shy away from what ifs. When you do this you will do nothing in your life.


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## Anastasia6

sagoapa said:


> New member here planning on popping the question to my wonderful girlfriend. I'm having terrible cold feet about whether to propose. She's perfect—beautiful, kind, loving, faithful, sweet, etc. But I'm having qualms about the idea of marriage altogether.
> 
> TL;DR
> I genuinely want to have a family and be a father, but I'm starting to fear marriage, for the first time, perhaps because I am THIS CLOSE to proposing to her. I fear going into something that's going to simply turn into a duty, and nothing more. I don't want to end up like some of my unhappy friends.
> 
> full scoop:
> 
> I have friends who have been married for years, and a few of them seem really unhappy. Some of them have revealed to me that they have essentially no sex life. This is an important factor to me and I am somewhat convinced after browsing these forums that it's very common, even probable, for sex to essentially end after marriage (twice a year is hardly better than never).
> 
> Additionally, one of my friends is going through a divorce after 8 years and it's wreaking havoc on his mental health. He's an insecure wreck. The cause for the divorce was that his wife didn't want kids and he did. She refused to budge. I think my fiancé really does want kids, so that's not a risk, but still. That friend of mine has been calling me very frequently and complaining about marriage as an institution, and he's slowly starting to affect me. Every few days he calls me to discuss how marriage is a failed artificial outdated institution and it's driving me insane.
> 
> I'm starting to feel afraid of losing control and finding myself bound to a piece of paper that basically says I'm screwed if something turns out unexpected.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like I'm putting pressure on myself to go through with marriage for societal reasons, or to feel like I'm part of my extended religious family (all married fundamentalist churchgoers, whereas I am agnostic). I do want to be accepted in their world, although I'll never be one of them. Of course I love my GF and I am also waking up and realizing that if I marry her, this will be forever, and I want to be solid for her and I don't want divorce to be on the table going in.
> 
> Unfortunately, after speaking with married friends and perusing these forums, I'm starting to grow a little cynical. Perhaps I'm selfish, but I'm not even sure what marriage is for anymore, aside from raising children. If sex is going to end after marriage, how am I not going to end up feeling like a prisoner?
> 
> A little more about me, I'm mid 30s, she's late 20s. Been together 2.5 years. Spent 9 months of that apart in an LDR during which we talked every day, stayed faithful, and were eventually reunited. Have been living together for 1 year. I am on the fence about whether to propose to her, not because there's anything wrong with her, but because I'm not sure I'm "made" for commitment.
> 
> She's a very sweet, very kind, very selfless individual. I've dated many women, and I feel confident in my assessment that she is truly a "keeper"—the kind of woman you really want to take home to Mom and Dad. She has one of the purest hearts I've encountered. I trust her with all my being. She's beautiful, but modest. She is a family woman and likes children.
> 
> She has tons of respect for me. I work very hard, am an above-average communicator, and really try hard to be a good partner to her. Of course, we all have our flaws, me included, and it seems that no matter how low I fall (for instance, if I lose my temper), she always forgives me. I value this immensely. She holds no grudges, she doesn’t ****-test me, she doesn’t rebuke or yell at me. She’s not demanding, nor is she high-maintenance or hard to please.
> 
> I love her and I have made tons of sacrifices for her over the past few years. I've been faithful. I've provided lots for her. We do spend lots of time together, and I enjoy her being around.
> 
> Perhaps I don't feel like I "need" her enough. I don't feel like I depend on her for anything, really. I don't really depend on her for emotional support, financial support, etc. Is that feeling of "dependence" necessary for a guy to feel walking into a marriage? Perhaps I'm just too damn independent for marriage? Is there something wrong with me?


It's clear you like her enough to keep her for now. But that really isn't what most people are looking for.
I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what your marriage will look like.... I do know
I've been married 27 years and have sex many times a week.
I wouldn't wait around for a man who after a year doesn't know if he wants me. Ok my limit is actually 2 years.
I do know that in a good relationship actually talk about the future, expectations and how to accomplish those. By now you shouldn't think she wants kids you should already know.

She might be stupid enough to have kids without marriage but she sounds awesome enough I hope not.

You should care for her enough to let her go. She can find someone who sees how awesome she is, communicates with her and has an optimistic outlook on the future.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ccpowerslave said:


> If you’re asking a question about it you’re not ready, in my opinion. If she’s for you and you want to lock it down you should be excited about proposing not questioning it.


Exact what I was going to post.

Sir, life is a game of chance, we face risks in every daily action we undertake. We could walk outside our front door and get hit by a meteor. You could be killed in a car accident on the way to work, and so forth and so on.

Marriage is not something that should be entered into lightly. The two of you will be becoming one. Do you love your fiancé? Or, are you having second thoughts and cold feet? If you are unsure, please break off the relationship as another poster advised. She deserves better than being married to a gentleman who is not 100% certain she is the one.

Marriage is a journey, it is not static, it has a fluid dynamic to it. I guess to paraphrase a speech I gave at my sons rehearsal dinner two years ago marriage is a work in progress No matter how long a couple as been married. In my speech I said to them marriage is built on a pillar of there things: love, honesty, and trust. Without any of the three, there cannot be a successful marriage.

pLease read the parable “Maybe so, Maybe not”.


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## Luckylucky

Blondilocks said:


> Well, great. We're talking to ourselves - again.


We don’t like what we have to say 😀


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## gaius

No guy wants a selfless doormat for a wife. It's nice to have a woman like that on the periphery but of course you're going to start sweating like you just saw Freddy Krueger at the thought of marrying one.
.
There's a good chance your attitude about marriage will change once you run across someone with some sass and selfishness mixed in with the good qualities. Someone who's love and approval you actually have to earn.


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## Diana7

gaius said:


> No guy wants a selfless doormat for a wife. It's nice to have a woman like that on the periphery but of course you're going to start sweating like you just saw Freddy Krueger at the thought of marrying one.
> .
> There's a good chance your attitude about marriage will change once you run across someone with some sass and selfishness mixed in with the good qualities. Someone who's love and approval you actually have to earn.


His girlfriend sound like a really nice lady who many men would love to marry.


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## In Absentia

You don't have to get married to be happy together. It's the 21st century, you know? 

P.S. I'm not responding to Diana7! Just my observation.


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> You don't have to get married to be happy together. It's the 21st century, you know?
> 
> P.S. I'm not responding to Diana7! Just my observation.


If you both agree on that. That's why he needs to talk to her about it. If she is hoping/wanting to be married then she needs to be told he doesn't feel the same. It's very unfair if he keeps her hanging on if he doesn't feel committed enough to marry her. There are plenty of men who will.


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## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> If she is hoping/wanting to be married then she needs to be told he doesn't feel the same. It's very unfair if he keeps her hanging on if he doesn't feel committed enough to marry her. There are plenty of men who will.


Nowhere the OP has said she wants to be married. She wants kids. Why ruin the status quo? The OP can wait a bit longer until he establishes clearly in his head what he wants to do. He is just panicking because he thinks that, if doesn't pop the question, he will lose her. What about talking about it with her without being stuck in Medieval times, feeling that he has to "pop the question"?


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> Nowhere the OP has said she wants to be married. She wants kids. Why ruin the status quo? The OP can wait a bit longer until he establishes clearly in his head what he wants to do. He is just panicking because he thinks that, if doesn't pop the question, he will lose her. What about talking about it with her without being stuck in Medieval times, feeling that he has to "pop the question"?


He doesn't know if she does. That's why they need to talk about it. She may or may not be hoping he pops the question but how will he know unless they talk about it? 
It's not fair to keep her on a string without telling her how he feels. At least then she can make her mind up knowing all the facts. 

I find it bizarre that they have been together all this time and their future together hasn't been talked about. I would have found out way before now what any partners views on marriage and commitment were. 

Not sure what your mentions of 'medieval' have to do with anything.


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## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Not sure what your mentions of 'medieval' have to do with anything.


"Popping the question" (proposing) is a very old-fashion way of going about marriage, these days, IMO. As you say, they should discuss it, he shouldn't get on his knee and propose. This is how I interpret it. BTW... I was with my girlfriend for 5 years (we lived together in the last 3) and we never discussed marriage or kids.


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> "Popping the question" (proposing) is a very old-fashion way of going about marriage, these days, IMO. As you say, they should discuss it, he shouldn't get on his knee and propose. This is how I interpret it. BTW... I was with my girlfriend for 5 years (we lived together in the last 3) and we never discussed marriage or kids.


Most people do seem to still use this lovely method of asking for her hand in marriage.


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> "Popping the question" (proposing) is a very old-fashion way of going about marriage, these days, IMO. As you say, they should discuss it, he shouldn't get on his knee and propose. This is how I interpret it. BTW... I was with my girlfriend for 5 years (we lived together in the last 3) and we never discussed marriage or kids.


Really? We talked about marriage very early on.


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## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Most people do seem to still use this lovely method of asking for her hand in marriage.


Really? I'm sure it's lovely, but...


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## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Really? We talked about marriage very early on.


We didn't. Maybe we were a bit unconventional like that.


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## Al_Bundy

In Absentia said:


> We didn't. Maybe we were a bit unconventional like that.


probably depends on age, with her in her late 20s it would seem odd if she wasn't bringing it up


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## Mr. Nail

He wants to get married that is clear to me. The problem is that he has been doomscrolling. One of his biggest fears is that sex will dry up with the ink on the marriage license. 

So let's discuss that. At least an understanding of it can help our OP. There are predictable and unpredictable reasons that sexless marriage occurs. One predictable but rare reason is bait and switch. This is usually tied to religion and family of origin shame surrounding sex. You can predict it by looking at the sexual relationship of the parents. Another predictable cause of sexlessness is failure to keep the emotional connections strong. Many couples fall into a sexless pattern as complacency and contentment settle in after marriage. You can prevent this kind of sexlessness by being attentive (together) to your partners emotional needs. Often couples marry without really understanding what their partners need from them and as a result they fail to provide it. By being aware and proactive you can prevent this.

Unpredictable sexless ness is common as well but the big danger zone is childbirth. Birth trauma, and postpartum depression, can really throw a wrench into your sex life. Birth trauma, is when the husband after witnessing the miracle of childbirth can't return to thinking of the vagina as the sexual pleasure zone it also is. If you are aware ahead of time you can at least get counseling if you fall into this. Post partum depression is a lot sneakier. it is often severe and debilitating and needs medical support to over come. 

This is not an exhaustive list. but is serves to show that preparedness can prevent a lot of sexless scenarios. I advise open and honest communication about your fear. Women have the same fears. Talking and preparing can help to calm those fears.


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> Really? I'm sure it's lovely, but...


Yes sure.


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## Al_Bundy

Mr. Nail said:


> He wants to get married that is clear to me. The problem is that he has been doomscrolling. One of his biggest fears is that sex will dry up with the ink on the marriage license.
> 
> So let's discuss that. At least an understanding of it can help our OP. There are predictable and unpredictable reasons that sexless marriage occurs. One predictable but rare reason is bait and switch. This is usually tied to religion and family of origin shame surrounding sex. You can predict it by looking at the sexual relationship of the parents. Another predictable cause of sexlessness is failure to keep the emotional connections strong. Many couples fall into a sexless pattern as complacency and contentment settle in after marriage. You can prevent this kind of sexlessness by being attentive (together) to your partners emotional needs. Often couples marry without really understanding what their partners need from them and as a result they fail to provide it. By being aware and proactive you can prevent this.
> 
> Unpredictable sexless ness is common as well but the big danger zone is childbirth. Birth trauma, and postpartum depression, can really throw a wrench into your sex life. Birth trauma, is when the husband after witnessing the miracle of childbirth can't return to thinking of the vagina as the sexual pleasure zone it also is. If you are aware ahead of time you can at least get counseling if you fall into this. Post partum depression is a lot sneakier. it is often severe and debilitating and needs medical support to over come.
> 
> This is not an exhaustive list. but is serves to show that preparedness can prevent a lot of sexless scenarios. I advise open and honest communication about your fear. Women have the same fears. Talking and preparing can help to calm those fears.


It's not a risk-less venture so his attitude might not be totally bad compared to having the idea that the bad stuff only happens to other people. He does come just short of calling her a unicorn though.

I'd add another common issue to your list. People just stop taking care of themselves. Not just their fitness, although that is huge (pun intended) but they give up hobbies and interests. Especially after kids, it's all about the kids and the parents literally don't have a life or personality of their own. The guy goes from being the inshape guy who did martial arts and rode a motorcycle to the guy with the little baby carrier thing on his chest being led around Ikea by his frumpy wife with her Karen haircut.


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## In Absentia

Al_Bundy said:


> probably depends on age, with her in her late 20s it would seem odd if she wasn't bringing it up


I'm not sure all women in their late 20s want to get married...


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## Al_Bundy

In Absentia said:


> I'm not sure all women in their late 20s want to get married...


Never said all, speaking generally. Plus we have only part of the story. OP has dropped off. While I'd like to think guys are waking up, generally most think their girl is different and none of the bad stuff will ever happen to them


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## Diana7

II 


In Absentia said:


> I'm not sure all women in their late 20s want to get married...


A lot do.


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## sagoapa

--


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## sagoapa

Thank for the all the replies. I was a little overwhelmed from all the responses (very grateful and surprised that this forum is so active), and it took me a while to process everything and work up the courage to reply.

--- as a reminder: ---
A little more about me, I'm mid 30s, she's late 20s. Been together 2.5 years. Spent 9 months of that apart in an LDR during which we talked every day, stayed faithful, and were eventually reunited. Have been living together for 1 year. I am on the fence about whether to propose to her.

*In my OP I suggested that I'm not sure I'm made for marriage. I decided to go see a relationship counselor a few weeks ago to discuss this stuff with him and have seen him a few times now and am trying to work through all of this. His end goal is that She and I work out, of course. Seeing him has brought clarity on a number of fronts but also made me even more unsure of myself on others. I've also come to realize I desperately want to be a father and husband, but I'm just sort of at a logistically and practically confusing point in my life.*
------------------------

COVID changed a lot for me. If I didn't mention it before, our relationship is intercultural and her family is across the world, so for us to live in one place requires that we be a long way away from the other's family. Our plan was to get married and move to my country, but I've lately realized that that is a logistically terrifying (she has never been there, we have no idea if she'll like it) and financially net-negative prospect. If we do move to my country, my deeply religious family (who has never met her due to COVID travel bans) expects us to marry the day after we land.

I've realized life isn't always going to be peachy and easy and I want to be with someone with whom the two of us can ease each other's burdens. Yes, we have both been 100% loyal to each other, but it's starting to feel like the relationship lacks depth, and probably always has. There is some sexual and some emotional chemistry but not a ton of mental chemistry. I can't dismiss the fact that our love for one another is valuable, but the reality of some impractical things are rearing their ugly head and seem to be getting in the way.
 
As I said before, my fiance IS dedicated, sweet and kind, but she is ALSO passive, quiet, and relatively inactive. I'm active, conversational, and I long for a really deep emotional connection. She likes to spend a lot of time on the sofa, on her phone. I like to try new things, pick up hobbies, challenge myself, etc. I feel like she has little interest in those sorts of things. I'm always up early with an agenda for the day, ready to get things done. She always sleeps in late whenever she gets the chance.

She's not an organizer, or a self-starter, or a source of inspiration for me. We do share a couple activities together—BUT, those are activities I spearheaded, sold the idea to her, bought her the equipment for, and goaded her on to join me. Sometimes I feel like I'm the one opening the world for her, but she doesn't really do the same for me. I just feel kind of alone sometimes.

I would love for her someday to come to me and say, "Honey, I thought about what we talked about and have some ideas, here's what I'm thinking," or, "Hey, morning! Feel like going and doing so-and-so?" but I don't think that type of behavior is in her repertoire.

I want a peer and a helpmate in a partner—someone who can understand and relate to me, who can challenge me, who can ease the burden of life with me (cuz things will get rough someday, since life's not always peachy)—but sometimes it feels like she is a bit more of a "dependant" and I'm just going through the motions to provide for her. I feel like I'm not getting my emotional needs met.

The whole passivity thing is starting to make me uneasy. Now that we're looking at relocating, marriage, having kids, etc. (COVID put all of that on pause for 18 months, and we spent 10 month apart, sort of in limbo), I'm starting to notice that she doesn't appear to exhibit many planning or practical life skills. No hobbies. No creative drive or business acumen. No real ideas. I try to bounce ideas off of her and she's like... "sounds good honey". She doesn't push herself to do much of anything at all, unless I suggest the idea to her and encourage her to "try it". And even then, if I stop pushing her, she'll quit whatever it was to begin with. I'm sometimes terrified of the prospect of taking on property/home ownership, healthcare, child-rearing and education, finances, etc. with someone who's not going to be a good idea-bouncer or to be self-motivated about anything. As our relationship progresses, I'm starting to see that I always end up doing all the planning, all the decision making, all the budgeting, I pay for everything (I make a lot more than she does, so I don't blame her here specifically), etc. She just kind of goes along with stuff.

_(And then I go and read some horror story on these forums about an abusive drunk wife, and I think, well, I should just shut up and stop complaining...)_

Is this normal and just par for the course sometimes with a long-term relationship?

At the same time, she certainly has seen the worst of me, and she accepts and loves me nonetheless. She's kind, forgiving, and happy. She has so many traits that I value. And I love her and I don't want to cause her pain, and I keep thinking that there's something I'm missing here and that everything will turn out ok.

------- as an aside... -------
The other thing that's starting to bother me is that I come from a deeply insular religious fundamentalist family, and although I am on good terms with them, I am sort of the outcast black sheep, and I don't feel like I'm really part of their family all that much. Part of me feels that in order to survive life I'm going to have to marry INTO another family to gain some social support. With my fiancé, I only finally got a chance to meet her parents two weeks ago. They don't speak any English—which I've always known—but even despite the fact that my fiancé was translating for us, there was just about zero real connection or understanding between us. The importance of a meaningful connection with extended family didn't really hit home for me until recently, with COVID. Furthermore, she has no siblings and hardly interacts with her extended family. I'm afraid we're going to get married and then sort of just be floating together in our little bubble with zero social support and it's going to be rough.
-------------------------------

Typing all of this out makes my heart ache, because I love this woman so much.

Again, is this normal?

P.S. Before you ask—no, despite the relative inactivity, she does not suffer from depression.


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## Andy1001

You say she doesn’t suffer from depression. She soon will if she marries you. 
Buddy will you just break up with her ffs.


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## Luckylucky

You love her so much, but it’s a list of negatives… I’m not feeling the love at all. 

Are you attracted to her at all? She probably feels you aren’t and doesn’t really know how to please you.

You also sound very independent and self-sufficient. I don’t think she’s dependant on you, more that you’re so in control there’s not much space for anyone to speak up and take charge or even demand something. You describe your place in your family as distant, you don’t connect with family? Do you have a close group of long-term friends? How do you feel in this group? I’m sensing a complete disconnect with any humans, almost as if there’s a void in you. Does this ring true at all? 

It sounds like she really loves you, but it’s not enough for one person to be in love. 

What do you feel when you picture her with another man in the future? Happy and adored, thriving? Does that stir any emotion in you? Jealousy? Or relief, or nothing?

Maybe you haven’t met ‘the one’. That’s ok, you might feel differently one day about someone else. It’s alright to feel these things and back out now. I can’t see her really being happy either right now, she’s probably feeling just like you.


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## ccpowerslave

So here is the thing. You’re mid 30s and have lived away from family already right? You don’t need them, you’re trying to make your own family with a young lady.

Let’s say you somehow could stop worrying about that.

What you’re left with then still sounds pretty bad. The way you describe your interactions with your girlfriend you don’t really even like living with her and given options of someone that stimulates your mind you’d probably much prefer that (can’t blame you).

So why are you still wasting time with her? You’re no spring chicken anymore if you actually want to have kids.


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## oldshirt

A couple questions to ask yourself -

-Does she compliment your life and make it better with her in it (preferably in ways other than sex)?

- Does she have respect and admiration for you and join you in your frame?

- Does she have genuine, burning desire for you and want to be with you because she's hot for you and doesn't simply want the assets and resources you can provide? 

- Is she stable and mentally and emotionally healthy? 

-Is she loyal and faithful when things are rough or she she may feel lonely or bored or not feel completely validated and fulfilled at every moment?

-Does she have developed adult skills and can feed, clothe and shelter herself and get up in the morning and put in a productive day without someone else prodding her to get life necessities done? (the last two are what disqualified a major hottie from my youth) 

-Do you share similar life goals and significant values and beliefs and share similar moral compass? So you share similar values on financial matters and child rearing and religious beliefs etc?

And a question about yourself - Do you need your wife to be able to fulfil all of your wants and interests and hobbies and activities. 

In other words do you need a wife to go on a fishing trip or to the races or to the gym or your softball league with you or can you do that with male buddies and still have a home life and intimate relationship with her?

Is SHE able to have a home life and intimate relationship if you aren't attached at the hip 24/7 and share all activities? 

Those are the important questions you need to be asking yourself.


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## oldshirt

Now, I am going to through this out there as an analogy to address where I think you are stumbling. 

I have had a number of friends and relatives get into car wrecks. Some have been injured and one work buddy of mine got hit by a train where he was killed instantly and his baby daughter lived long enough for family to assemble and then disconnected her from life support. Very tragic. 

I also work in the health care industry and have been involved in literally thousands of vehicle incidents from planes, trains and automobiles that ranged from everything from bumps and bruises to multiple fatalities and life long disabilities. 

I have even been in a couple collisions myself over the years that resulted in totaled cars and luckily only minor injuries.

......but yet I still drive a car every day. 

I drive a car even though I understand and have seen first hand the risks a lot more than the common man has. I understand the risks and hazards. 

I take the proper precautions and follow the posted speed limits and obey traffic laws and try to follow common sense. I don't drink and drive. I don't txt if I'm in traffic. I don't drive when I'm dead-dog tired. I wear my seat belt and I keep my eyes on the road actively looking for potential hazards. 

But, I realise that no matter how careful I am, the other guy can still run a red light and hit me. I realise there may be weather or road conditions out of my control. 

For that, I carry insurance and keep my premiums paid up. 

But even with insurance, I understand that each time I get behind the wheel, it may be my last. I know I could die or be disabled or inadvertently kill or disable someone else despite my best efforts not to. 

Yet I still drive a car. 

I drive a car and accept the risks because that is the life I choose to live. I could choose to never drive again like Sheldon on The Big Bang theory and take the bus and bum rides off of friends. But that is not the life I want to live. 

The life I want to live carries the risk of being trapped upside down at the bottom of ravine burning alive. I don't want that. But I accept that risk in order to live how I want to live. 

cont........


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## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> Now, I am going to through this out there as an analogy to address where I think you are stumbling.
> 
> I have had a number of friends and relatives get into car wrecks. Some have been injured and one work buddy of mine got hit by a train where he was killed instantly and his baby daughter lived long enough for family to assemble and then disconnected her from life support. Very tragic.
> 
> I also work in the health care industry and have been involved in literally thousands of vehicle incidents from planes, trains and automobiles that ranged from everything from bumps and bruises to multiple fatalities and life long disabilities.
> 
> I have even been in a couple collisions myself over the years that resulted in totaled cars and luckily only minor injuries.
> 
> ......but yet I still drive a car every day.
> 
> I drive a car even though I understand and have seen first hand the risks a lot more than the common man has. I understand the risks and hazards.
> 
> I take the proper precautions and follow the posted speed limits and obey traffic laws and try to follow common sense. I don't drink and drive. I don't txt if I'm in traffic. I don't drive when I'm dead-dog tired. I wear my seat belt and I keep my eyes on the road actively looking for potential hazards.
> 
> But, I realise that no matter how careful I am, the other guy can still run a red light and hit me. I realise there may be weather or road conditions out of my control.
> 
> For that, I carry insurance and keep my premiums paid up.
> 
> But even with insurance, I understand that each time I get behind the wheel, it may be my last. I know I could die or be disabled or inadvertently kill or disable someone else despite my best efforts not to.
> 
> Yet I still drive a car.
> 
> I drive a car and accept the risks because that is the life I choose to live. I could choose to never drive again like Sheldon on The Big Bang theory and take the bus and bum rides off of friends. But that is not the life I want to live.
> 
> The life I want to live carries the risk of being trapped upside down at the bottom of ravine burning alive. I don't want that. But I accept that risk in order to live how I want to live.
> 
> cont........


Marriage is the same way. It also carries risks and expenses and potential disasters. No one can guarantee that you will never be trapped upside down at the bottom of ravine burning alive. It 'could' happen. 

But there are a lot of things that you can do to minimize the risks (like answering the questions in post #45 above) and there are things you can do to mitigate the damage and harm done if things do go bad, such as each of you having education/job training in marketable job skills, keeping at least some of your own financial accounts separate, being a good partner and not being a jerk or alcoholic or abusive or blatantly neglecting your partner's needs. 

And also being willing and able to pull the ejection handle and punching out if your partner turns out to be a fraud or abusive or a cheater or simply blatantly neglects your needs. 

Your buddies are in miserable marriages because they did not vet their partners carefully enough, and then chose to remain in that situation once they realised things had gone sour. 

Yes a divorce will cost you lawyer and court fees and yes you will lose some of your marital assets. 

But if you do your due diligence in selecting your mate (which other than being from another country, sounds like a good catch) and you do your due dilligence in being a good partner,,, and you maintain the ability and willingness to exit the marriage if all goes to pot despite your best efforts, you will survive and come out of it ok.


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## oldshirt

Finally, it's ok to choose to not marry if you do not believe marriage is right for you and there are a lot of people out there that should NOT marry. And there are a lot of people out there that you should not be married to. 

But I do not believe in letting fear and letting someone else's bad experiences scare you away from doing what you want to do and what you feel in your heart will be right for you. 

It's great to be wise and acknowledge and understand the risks and to take proper steps to minimize and mitigate the risks. 

But you'll always regret being a puzzy and not doing what you want to do out of being scaredy cat.


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## Spoons027

Seems pretty clear-cut, imo. If she lacks a few qualities that are seemingly very important to you, then it’s best not to marry or that will likely build up into resentment.

Have you actually communicated to her about any of this at all?


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## Rob_1

You really don’t love her. If you really did you wouldn't be in this conundrum. 
Please, stop wasting her time and her life. End it now. It's the decent thing to do. You can diddle with your life as much as you like, but for God's sake don't drag others along.


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## Quad73

If you stay with her.... you're going to wind up resenting and nagging her more and more, and thinking about what might have been possible with someone else who could have been a true PARTNER in your life. That is not love. 

She's not your idea of a PARTNER, she's a tag-along that you will need to motivate minute by excruciating minute for eternity, or until you bail out in despair and frustration.

The whole thing, the way you've plotted out your seemingly inevitable fate, with her family, your family, marriage, it's all not YOU. 

You're conforming to others' ideals and templates and checklists for a life. Give yourself a shake, realize this is your life to shape the way YOU want to.

Here's the irony. You're being passive. And you hate passive.


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