# Friends with the OM



## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

My wife and I are posting this together:

My wife of nine years had an affair. It's been over for a little over 3 months. My wife says they were friends before any of it started, I believe he sparked up the friendship with one goal in mind and that was for the PA. He was engaged and he pursued a married woman with three kids, so you decide.

After the affair ended she kept contacting the OM behind my back, she promised me to severe all ties and she called,texted,emailed and facebooked the guy numerous times over the last three months. I kept finding out and she kept doing but promising not to. 

I got so insane through all of this that I even considered having a RA. I almost went through with it, I kissed someone and made plans to take it further but I couldn't do it. I love my wife and no matter how much she hurt me I just couldn't do it back to her. I was honest with her and told her about this immediately.

It finally seemed like it came to an end. We agreed to reconcile and move forward and she told me today that she facebooked him again Friday. She still thinks they were friends before all of this happened and that they should be able to stay friends now. She swears that she won't do anything again but I don't think I could live with this.I've told her that if she wants this to work she needs to severe all communication forever and she is unwilling to consider that. I'm telling her its a dangerous road but she won't listen. That's why we came here with this. 

She says she wants to make this marriage work.

I want to make this marriage work. But she also says that she cares about him. That makes me feel like crap..that does not make this easy for me to move on. I feel rejected and betrayed anyway and that i wasn't enough for her and now by saying that she still cares about him it makes me feel she is telling me the same thing is still true. 

Can the spouse that cheated and the OM still maintain a friendship after a PA? How can we reconcile if we keep the door open to this terrible part of our life?

I know this post is slanted in favor of me the husband and I love my wife and want to make this work but this has caused tremendous difficulty today. I want her to promise me to never speak to him again and she won't. She thinks I'm trying to control her and tell her what to do and I'm not, I'm just asking her to do this for me and she won't.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Hell to the no

without NC, the affair is still on, even if it's in the mind


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

btw, the overwhelming majority of this board believes for R to work that in a work place affair the WS should quit their job


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Most people can't even handle friendships with an ex...or friendships with anyone of the opposite sex...friends with the OM? No way in hell would that be going on in my marriage.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

The affair has not ended unless you have verified this through other means. To me it looks like they've taken it underground or want to take it underground.

No Contact (NC) means NC means NC means NC! I can't be any clearer than that.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> My wife and I are posting this together:
> 
> My wife of nine years had an affair. It's been over for a little over 3 months. My wife says they were friends before any of it started, I believe he sparked up the friendship with one goal in mind and that was for the PA. He was engaged and he pursued a married woman with three kids, so you decide.
> 
> ...


Absolutely cannot remain friends. It's no contact or you might as well get the divorce started. She did the cheating not you. She doesn't get to dictate anything. She either choices the marriage or the other guy. Plain and simple.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> btw, the overwhelming majority of this board believes for R to work that in a work place affair the WS should quit their job


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

OM is permanently out of the picture. The friendship ended when they crossed the line. There's no way back. At least while she's married to you. Life long NC.

It's simply for me. I caught another breach of NC agreemente and I run to the lawyer's office.

Needinghelpnow's wife. You ara bargaining. You know it's not realistic. You just don't want to give up. You know it's ridiculous. You not only screwed up your marriage, destroyed your own values but your friends ship. Deal with it. Ask yourself in every site dealing with infidelity you can find at internet. You will get the same advice. You can't have it the two ways. Period. Stop bargaining.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> My wife and I are posting this together:
> 
> My wife of nine years had an affair. It's been over for a little over 3 months. My wife says they were friends before any of it started, I believe he sparked up the friendship with one goal in mind and that was for the PA. He was engaged and he pursued a married woman with three kids, so you decide.
> 
> ...


I am sorry you are going through this, but why do you want to stay with a woman who 'won't' do this for you? To me, that demonstrates exactly how much she cares for you. Not much!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

since you stated you are both posting in one username, I will state that it is also a consequence of the WS's actions. Losing that friendship is a direct result of her highly destructive and inappropriate behavior


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Your wife is still deep in the fog and you two will never truly reconcile unless she cuts all ties with the OM. Really. It's that simple. Her refusal to do so is a dead giveaway to a doomed marriage.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Can the spouse that cheated and the OM still maintain a friendship after a PA? How can we reconcile if we keep the door open to this terrible part of our life?


This has never, ever, worked. As long as they are in any contact at all, the affair will not end mentally. And all it will take is a little nudge (i.e. an argument between you and her) and it will be back on.



Needinghelpnow said:


> She thinks I'm trying to control her and tell her what to do and I'm not, I'm just asking her to do this for me and she won't.


And she plays the controlling card....which is a very, very common tactic. This means she's upset because you're making it difficult on her affair. This shows she's not truly remorseful about her affair. Not at all.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It's called false reconciliation. She's cake eating. Sorry.

The only way to have a real reconciliation is for her to agree to and insist upon no contact, ever again, for life.

I would say, if she's not willing to sever ties then you're just wasting your time staying with a cheater. Time to move on.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

What a selfish, uncaring wife you have!

You've offered her the gift of reconciliation, a second chance after SHE choose to betray you in the worst possible way a spouse can betray the other.

She had sexual relations with another man, putting your marriage at risk KNOWINGLY. Exposing you to possibly fatal STDs KNOWINGLY. After promising you that she wouldn't contact him again, she's done it multiple times KNOWINGLY.

She has taken your gift of reconciliation and pi$$ed all over it time and time again. Why would you stay with this woman? You know in your heart of heatrs that she will do this to you again, right?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> Your wife is still deep in the fog and you two will never truly reconcile unless she cuts all ties with the OM. Really. It's that simple. Her refusal to do so is a dead giveaway to a doomed marriage.


:iagree:


Accurate!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Put it another way, how could the BS possibly heal if the WS remained friends with her AP?

You could have her bugged 24/7 and you'd still worry and get driven crazy with paranoia


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

This is a joke, right??? You wife had an affair and lies to you repeatedly about severing contact and now says she can't/won't go no contact? Why would you even consider staying with this broken person? I hope she is reading this because she is so messed up it isn't funny. You both need to read "not just friends", by Sharon Glass. She needs to get into counseling to understand what her underlying pathology is and you need to file for divorce immediately if this doesn't cease and you can verify it. 

By the way. The "Man Up" threads are required reading for you. Read it! Live it!


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

Toffer said:


> What a selfish, uncaring wife you have!
> 
> You've offered her the gift of reconciliation, a second chance after SHE choose to betray you in the worst possible way a spouse can betray the other.
> 
> ...


And the cherry on top is that she wants to remain friends with this person.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Needing

Sorry to say but your wifes A is not over. Not by a long shot.

And you know what else. You are not controlling.

But your wife is being purely selfish.

By her pushing to keep a relationship with the OM just shows you where you are in her pecking order.

If she insists on this then my advice is to let her go.

Then you will not be "controlling" at all.

Cheaters are very selfish people. It is why they cheat in the 1st place. And I can guarantee you their relationship is doomed.

In fact, pack all her stuff up and the kids and drop them off at his house. When she is no longer a free piece of $ss any longer I can assure you the attraction will gone. Fast!

HM64


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Let me guess...your cheater/liar wife has suggested that you become friends with the OM as well, right?

IMHO, you can't be "just friends" after something has been inserted. Make it simple - "Him or me, hon, it won't be both."


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Former BS here. No, they cannot maintain any type of relationship. No contact is the only option. It that doesn't happen you are just biding time until the next "mistake". Your wife has already lied to you about cutting contact. How does she expect you to believe her about anything else related to this man. And if he is a predator as you suspect he's already planning. Make sure she ends it or be ready to file.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Actually the more I think about it, the real problem is that your wife is not truly remorseful. She's faking remorse so that you'll buy into false reconciliation. I would be looking for what the reason is that she's trying to keep you in a fake marriage. Do you make a lot of money? Is the other man married? Perhaps she's just waiting for him to leave his wife. I can't put my finger on exactly what's wrong (obviously because I don't have all the facts) but if I were in your shoes I'd be searching for the answer.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

I am sorry that you are here, but this is one of the best places to get advice.

No, the WS can not be friends with the OM. The WS will always feel that rush when she talks to the OM. The memories of him will be enough. They will fall again. 

In addition, how would the BS feel knowing that his WS is out with the OM? How could he trust her? 

Do not bend in this. Do not be nice in this. She betrayed you. You get to set the conditions of the R. She can either accept them or divorce you.

As for your own, you need to go NC with the OW, also. You kissed her, and that is a PA, as well.


Both of you need to send a non contact letter.
You need to discuss what you need for R
She needs IC to figure out why she chose to have an affair
You both need to go to MC and find what problems in the marriage were before the affair to make it stronger. The affair is 100% on her; the problems in the marriage is 50 | 50

You need to be very careful on this. These actions are not remorseful. The only way to successful have an R is if the WS is truly remorseful. Remember, actions and not words. Her actions stink.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

These are not the actions of the truly remorseful. Sir, you are officially Plan B. Ma'am- you have an awful lot of nerve to dictate to your husband during this delicate time.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

Remaining friends really means keeping the flame lit so that things can continue later on.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

And your wife is still on FB? Part of her remorse should be no FB ever again. Your wife is not showing remorse only being sorry for getting caught. She is still in the fog of the A.


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## jay80_98 (Jul 14, 2012)

Hell no and if she works with him she's gotta quit her job


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Nope. She can't be friends with a former lover. She knows this. She is trying to keep him around to keep that option open. You know this, she knows this... hell, even the OM knows this. If she REALLY wants to work on your marriage, she will cease contact with this man...sever ALL ties to him. That she doesn't want to give him up speaks volumes.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

So...We've been reading your comments and she is now angry and stormed away. She says she doesn't want to do anything wrong and that all of us are crazy. 

I'd like to mention we've done counseling already too...and surprise she stopped being willing to go.

I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both...I tell her then we're done...and she says she doesn't want that but fine...she'll even go to the closet for the suitcase...I tell her she will never see me or her kids again and she acts like she would walk away...like I wouldn't do it..I know she is totally abusing me here, but I love her and I do think she loves me..she is just so stubborn and will not listen to anyone's advice...she's in denial of what actually happened.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

You are not trying to "control" her, you are simply setting boundaries for yourself in what you will and will not accept in your marriage. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

It is your choice to continue the marriage if she agrees to NC with the OM. It is her choice to accept that or not. Simple as that.

Unless you are tying her down, throwing her computer in the garbage, etc, you aren't controlling her. You are just controlling what you are willing to accept.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> My wife and I are posting this together:
> 
> My wife of nine years had an affair. It's been over for a little over 3 months. My wife says they were friends before any of it started, I believe he sparked up the friendship with one goal in mind and that was for the PA. He was engaged and he pursued a married woman with three kids, so you decide.
> 
> ...


No she lost that chance by going outside of the marriage, Her boundaries are not good and she really needs to make a decision if she wants to R or not.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

She grabs her suitcase...and then, what? She just puts it back? 

Stop playing these games with this cheater. File on her azz. If she works REALLY hard at the marriage, you might let her back in.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> So...We've been reading your comments and she is now angry and stormed away. She says she doesn't want to do anything wrong and that all of us are crazy.
> 
> I'd like to mention we've done counseling already too...and surprise she stopped being willing to go.
> 
> I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both...I tell her then we're done...and she says she doesn't want that but fine...she'll even go to the closet for the suitcase...I tell her she will never see me or her kids again and she acts like she would walk away...like I wouldn't do it..I know she is totally abusing me here, but I love her and I do think she loves me..she is just so stubborn and will not listen to anyone's advice...she's in denial of what actually happened.


The reality of divorce papers is the only solution here. She's a classic cake eater still caught up in the thick affair fog. Nobody who is serious has a hard time make the choice you're asking her to make. Time to talk to a lawyer.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> So...We've been reading your comments and she is now angry and stormed away. She says she doesn't want to do anything wrong and that all of us are crazy.
> 
> I'd like to mention we've done counseling already too...and surprise she stopped being willing to go.
> 
> I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both...I tell her then we're done...and she says she doesn't want that but fine...she'll even go to the closet for the suitcase...I tell her she will never see me or her kids again and she acts like she would walk away...like I wouldn't do it..I know she is totally abusing me here, but I love her and I do think she loves me..she is just so stubborn and will not listen to anyone's advice...she's in denial of what actually happened.


The sad fact of the matter is, if you're not willing to walk away and divorce her, then she will continue to eat cake. She prefers you to be her cuckold. And you don't seem to be enforcing any boundaries. Just complaining when she crosses them. You need to show, through your ACTIONS, that this is a deal breaker. Don't keep threatening her. Go to the lawyer and draw up the papers. If she refuses to choose between you, then it's obviously over.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Needinghelp - I just read your last post. You said you gave her an ultimatum and she answered you. Now what? Are you following through with it? The only way to wake her up (if it's possible) is to follow through. She has no respect for you and you are letting her openly cheat on you with no consequences.

If her answer is that she wants both of you, then pack up her s**t and deposit it on the front porch. Man up and quit being afraid of your wife. This is the only way you might save your marriage.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

Yep, I would file on her. Wake her up from the fog. You see, the thing with ultimatums. You need to follow through with them. If you don't, she knows that you ever won't. 

Those are your boundaries. She doesn't get to choose your boundaries. Make the ultimatum, but be prepared to back it up.

She is playing a very childish game. Time to get serious.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Of course she's upset-she doesn't like being held up to the mirror in a matter like this.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> So...We've been reading your comments and she is now angry and stormed away. She says she doesn't want to do anything wrong and that all of us are crazy.
> 
> I'd like to mention we've done counseling already too...and surprise she stopped being willing to go.
> 
> I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both...I tell her then we're done...and she says she doesn't want that but fine...she'll even go to the closet for the suitcase...I tell her she will never see me or her kids again and she acts like she would walk away...like I wouldn't do it..I know she is totally abusing me here, but I love her and I do think she loves me..she is just so stubborn and will not listen to anyone's advice...she's in denial of what actually happened.



I would go ahead and file due to the current situation and come up with a list of conduct for you to stay in the marriage 
1. No contact with the OM
2. MC 
3.ETC

sounds like she is a cake eater tell her you define a marriage as 2 people and not 3 and if she wants to Reconcile then she would be willing to do anything to keep the marriage together the fact that she says both tells me her answer


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Yup, that must be it, WE are all crazy...pfff...so thick in her affair fog, she can't even see it. Next, she'll be suggesting you all move in together, and set up some type of love-commune. I've heard THAT one before...bloody affairs. HATE THEM.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Simple question for the wife really....

What's more important to her? Her friendship with the OM or her marriage and her family?

If she's going for the suitcase, then I think you've got your answer.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

A marriage is for two people, not three. I'm sorry, man, but until she can get the idea that its not alright to try to have a third person in her marriage, then there is no marriage at all.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Forget the fog nonsense. Your wife isn't remorseful and clearly prioritizes the OM over you.

She's supposed to win you back, not the other way around.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

I hope I'm not the only one who has their blood boil when they read some of these stories. Just absolutely ridiculous. I also love how these "friends" of such a short period of time in the grand scheme are irreplaceable. There's no way to choice between the two.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Put the shoe on the other foot. Ask her how she would feel if you just had an affair with a woman and you thought it would be OK to be just friends. Also ask her how it would feel if you couldn't chose between your wife or the OW and answer both. If she can't feel any empathy after you lay it out for her, then grab her suitcase and tell her to GTFOH - we're done.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Can the spouse that cheated and the OM still maintain a friendship after a PA?


Not if she really loves you,is remorseful and is willing to go to any length to salvage your marriage.Otherwise it's all just nonsense.What do you think they say to one another about you? Listen to what commonsense tells you.Don't go walking in the fog with her.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She has been telling you over and over that she is refusing to end her affair with the OM. All she has so far agreed to is stopping having sex with him. She still expects and wants the affair. 

She hasn't returned to the marriage, she has only said she would stop giving him sex.

Do you really think the OM wants to be her buddy or yours? Nope, he fully expects she will lay own again with him,that's his reason for staying in contact with her.

She has voted with her heart: she has chosen the affair.

Stop letting her string you along with false declarations of doing whatever it takes to heal the marriage. She won't even stop the affair.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Put the shoe on the other foot. Ask her how she would feel if you just had an affair with a woman and you thought it would be OK to be just friends. Also ask her how it would feel if you couldn't chose between your wife or the OW and answer both. If she can't feel any empathy after you lay it out for her, then grab her suitcase and tell her to GTFOH - we're done.


It's logical to try and put the shoe on the other foot but that never works. Someone who is being unreasonable will not see any reasoning.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

When your wife stomped away I'll tell you 100% what was in her head. I hate you for ruining my fantasy world and making it so hard to f*ck this guy now. Think about that when you decide what you should really do here.


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## cantdecide (Apr 9, 2012)

This one hits close to home for me. TOO CLOSE. My wife did the same thing. Swore she would only be friends with the OM. I didn't think it was possible and filed for divorce. Guess where she ended up again. Yup, that's right, back in the arms of the OM. She was only using me (and the OM) as a back up in case one of grew a set.

File for divorce. She has absolutely no respect for you or your marriage.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I am so sorry that your wife had an affair.

How did you find out? Is she sincerely sorry or not? Does his wife know about the affair?

I believe she still has strong feelings for the OM so that means the affair has not ended. His wife may have found out & he dumped her.

Good move on your part to come here & ask the question about "no contact." She can see that you are right & not controlling.

I know you love her very much & want to keep the family together. The question is - does she?

Praying for you.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your wife is manipulating you. Shame on you OP's wife


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

And she actually believed she would have people agree with her. Huh. CAKE EATER.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Do you even know the full extent of the affair. Maybe she is still lying about the extent of the affair. How did you verify?


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

have you even exposed this affair? if not, you better get to it.

i bet exposure and the threat of divorce will knock some sense into this cheating cake-eater, REAL quick.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

So many friendly people in here... Make sure she reads this:

Kick her ass to the curb

Yeah, that's right buddy. She doesn't respect you, is treating you like sh*t and cares nothing about your feelings. You know why? Because she is absolutely sure you're a dog without teeth, you won't bite. You're just barking! 

Until she feels you are ready to man up she has no need to get her act clean. She isn't remorseful. If she was she wouldn't blink when you asked her the very simple and straightforward NC with the OM.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

cledus_snow said:


> have you even exposed this affair? if not, you better get to it.
> 
> i bet exposure and the threat of divorce will knock some sense into this cheating cake-eater, REAL quick.


Man, I was about to write this: EXPOSE THE AFFAIR


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> Man, I was about to write this: EXPOSE THE AFFAIR


Agreed. Pull the rug out of underneath it, make it fall flat on its face.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> So...We've been reading your comments and she is now angry and stormed away. She says she doesn't want to do anything wrong and that all of us are crazy.
> 
> I'd like to mention we've done counseling already too...and surprise she stopped being willing to go.
> 
> I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both...I tell her then we're done...and she says she doesn't want that but fine...she'll even go to the closet for the suitcase...I tell her she will never see me or her kids again and she acts like she would walk away...like I wouldn't do it..I know she is totally abusing me here, but I love her and I do think she loves me..she is just so stubborn and will not listen to anyone's advice...she's in denial of what actually happened.


Wow!! I think you might have rug swept your affair. Can you tell us how you went about on reconciliation ? I can see huge mistakes in your R if she can throw a temper tantrum over this. She even contacted him first without telling. You might urgent help with your marriage here


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Completely objective viewpoint - when you hurt someone, or do something bad, you must be willing to live with the consequences. Your W does not. She obviously likes him and wants to stay close b/c she cannot stand to lose him. You are right to give her a choice, him or you. "Both" means "him". You must follow through with consequences or else you will continue to be miserable. SHE MADE HER CHOICE, you have to move on.

Do not use kids as leverage in your relationship. Just expect, if you will have custody, child support and that she will not abandon them. 

Her position, "both", or "we were friends before" is not even remotely logical or tenable. Only a selfish egocentric individual could think that is ok.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> ..... It finally seemed like it came to an end. We agreed to reconcile and move forward and she told me today that she facebooked him again Friday. She still thinks they were friends before all of this happened and that they should be able to stay friends now. She swears that she won't do anything again but I don't think I could live with this.I've told her that if she wants this to work she needs to severe all communication forever and she is unwilling to consider that. I'm telling her its a dangerous road but she won't listen.
> 
> She says she wants to make this marriage work.
> 
> ...


*To Mr. Needinghelpnow:*
I'm sorry man, but stick a fork in this marriage, it's done. Pack her bags, throw her out and call your lawyer. 

How can she say such STUPID SH1T. She's either incredibly dumb, incredibly ballsy, incredibly manipulative or she thinks your a jerk. What ever it is, don't be fooled and get her out of your life, she is poison.

The next time I see someone posting that "opposite sex friends are OK", I'm linking them back to this posting.

*To Mrs. Needinghelpnow:*
Really? Are you serious? Do you have any idea how much you hurt your husband by your affair? And now you want to rub salt in his wounds? Your clearly not serious about this marriage. Do him a favor and leave him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Yes, it is theoretically possible. But only in some fairly unique circumstances. And, to my mind, your wife is *NOT* in one of those unique circumstances.

*No Contact should mean no contact. At all*.

She is still living in the fog of infidelity.

She needs to work out who she cares for the most. Husband and children? Or the other man.

She can't have it all. She is being a cake eater and must stop, or she will destroy her marriage and damage the lives of her husband and her children and herself.

Exposure of the affair might be worth considering.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both.


Translation:

Me or him: Both


Both or him: him


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yes, it is theoretically possible. But only in some fairly unique circumstances.


MM ... Really? I'd like to meet the guy, woman who would accept that.


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both..


Well, at least you know where she stands. 



Needinghelpnow said:


> I tell her she will never see me or her kids again .


Keep the kids out of it they're not some sort of pawn in a chess game.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

AlphaHalf said:


> And she actually believed she would have people agree with her. Huh. CAKE EATER.


I know. And not one person came forward to tell her it was okay to keep her friend, so she had a little temper tantrum about the consensus and called us all "crazy".

The BS spouse here needs to consider option #2. That would be to see a divorce attorney. Nothing less will shake her out of her foggy brain. If he truly wants to keep her, he needs to let her go.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Translation:
> 
> Me or him: Both
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:

When she says both, she is choosing him.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Can the spouse that cheated and the OM still maintain a friendship after a PA?


NOPE. 

One of the consequences of having the affair with a “friend” is that you can never be friends with them again (as long as you are married, D her and she can buddy up all she wants). That’s the price you pay for your mistakes. If she didn’t want to lose his friendship she should have never crossed that line.

She is being selfish and not taking your feelings into consideration. Being his friend is not worth losing a marriage over but if she insists maybe it’s time for a lawyer. Don’t put up with any MORE disrespect from her, she is lucky you haven’t kick her to the curb which is what happens to most adulterers. She already spit in your face with the affair, don't let her with this as well.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> MM ... Really? I'd like to meet the guy, woman who would accept that.


Well, when I say unique, I mean my situation. So you have met me. (I have told the story before, and don't want to derail this thread.)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OP you need to get you and your children tested for STDs and HIV.

Why the children? There _*have*_ been cases of WS accidentally transmitting STDs to their children by non-sexual contact, when the children use the same bath towels, wash clothes, etc.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> MM ... Really? I'd like to meet the guy, woman who would accept that.


The first man I ever slept with is married to my cousin. They have been married 15 years, I believe... Does that count as one of those unique circumstances?


Other than something like that...I agree former lovers CANNOT be friends, no matter how much the cheater seems to believe it is possible.

*just to add... we were both single, and it was LONG before I even met my husband and he had no interest in my cousin at the time we were together (he was my first boyfriend)*


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> So...We've been reading your comments and she is now angry and stormed away. She says she doesn't want to do anything wrong and that all of us are crazy.
> 
> I'd like to mention we've done counseling already too...and surprise she stopped being willing to go.
> 
> I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both...I tell her then we're done...and she says she doesn't want that but fine...she'll even go to the closet for the suitcase...I tell her she will never see me or her kids again and she acts like she would walk away...like I wouldn't do it..I know she is totally abusing me here, but I love her and I do think she loves me..she is just so stubborn and will not listen to anyone's advice...she's in denial of what actually happened.


When she goes to grab her suitcase, go get her clothes and help her pack. Show her that you are completely serious about this. Otherwise, she is just gonna keep doing this, BECAUSE YOU ARE LETTING HER! *STOP LETTING HER!!!!*


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Several posts have been removed and warnings sent. Name calling is not allowed on the forum for either the OP *or* his wife.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> Several posts have been removed and warnings sent. Name calling is not allowed on the forum for either the OP *or* his wife.


Thank God for a voice of reason.

No matter what "others" think or feel, this man loves his wife.

He has CHILDREN to think of.

He is hurting & bashing his wife does not help.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am sorry for you Needinghelpnow, and your name is apropos..You do need help now. You need to man up. Your wife is disrespecting you, you have set a boundary and a consequence. FILE FOR DIVORCE. She may wake up and see what a complete tool she has been. If not, you are better off with out her.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

OP
As you know the two relationships are toxic to your marriage (such as it is).

It might be worthwhile to consider yourself and your wife to both be drug addicts.

A drug addict LOVES his/her drugs - but it's NOT HEALTHY.

You love your wife in the same unhealthy way - fix it! (a drug addict can continue to love the drugs but refrain from use because of an understanding of where the toxicity will undoubtedly lead).

Your wife's OM is just as toxic to her. Face it, for the moment she loves her drugs too. 

It might be that when she sees that you've 'kicked the habit' she may be spurred to do the same. 

Best of luck - although you'll need much more than luck.

My very best wishes to you (and really to your wife too)


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

> He is hurting & *bashing his wife does not help*.


i might have missed it, but i don't recall anyone _targeting_ his wife, specifically. i didn't see "wh*re," "sl*t," "tr"mp," or any other moniker used to describe her.

i know i said she's "f*cked-up," but i didn't intend it toward her, specifically. i meant it in the context of her actions.....as in "she's ****ed-up for doing this."_this_ meaning her being unreasonable when it comes to the NC issue.


must be that "overzealous" censorship i've been hearing about, lately.


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> i might have missed it, but i don't recall anyone _targeting_ his wife, specifically.
> 
> must be that "overzealous" censorship i've been hearing about, lately.


Not your call to make unless you've got "moderator" under your user Id.

You can't stand the heat.. get out of the kitchen.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

^just voicing my opinion. or is that wrong of me, also?


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> ^just voicing my opinion. or is that wrong of me, also?


My opinion is that it's disrespectful and maybe even a violation of the forum TOS to publically challenge moderator decisions not to mention a hijack of the thread.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

My opinion is that you guys should take it to PMs, then.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

contrary to what you might think, this is isn't SI(Surviving Infidelity). the mods are open to the posters' opinions and views. they don't rule with an iron fist here.

i've been posting here longer than you, and have never had a problem with the mods.

my post pertained to the thread itself. i was just clarifying the content on my deleted post. how is that disrespectful?




> to publically challenge moderator decisions


WOW! your thought process here really scares me. how can there be transparency without publically "airing out" grievences. 

this is SI mentality, all the way.


as for the t/j, i apologize


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> i've been posting here longer than you, and have never had a problem with the mods.


It appears you have had a problem with the mods and that's why you're complaining. 



cledus_snow said:


> my post pertained to the thread itself. i was just clarifying the content on my deleted post. how is that disrespectful?


It's disrespectful to publically challenge decisions made by the moderators of this forum which is exactly what you did by questioning the post made by a moderator explaining why several posts were deleted and several warnings given, apparently your post or posts included.



cledus_snow said:


> WOW! your thought process here really scares me. how can there be transperancy without publically "airing out" grievences.


Transparency is between partners involved with infidelity it is not about questioning moderators deletion of posts on a forum.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Bloody hell donders 

give it a rest already


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> So...We've been reading your comments and she is now angry and stormed away. She says she doesn't want to do anything wrong and that all of us are crazy. .


:slap::slap::slap:

Why did you show her this site? Now its difficult to give advice about how to kill the affair and to verify because now this site is compromised. Now she'll likely be reading this site to see what you're up to or going to do. 



Needinghelpnow said:


> I'd like to mention we've done counseling already too...and surprise she stopped being willing to go..


Of course she doesn't want to go, she's still in the affair. If the affair was over and she was truly remorseful, she would be wanting you and her to go. So this is a red flag that is a good indication that she's still in the fog and the affair might still be going on.



Needinghelpnow said:


> I even gave her the ultimatum, him or me..not both..and she will only answer both...I tell her then we're done...and she says she doesn't want that but fine...she'll even go to the closet for the suitcase...I tell her she will never see me or her kids again and she acts like she would walk away...like I wouldn't do it..I know she is totally abusing me here, but I love her and I do think she loves me..she is just so stubborn and will not listen to anyone's advice...she's in denial of what actually happened.


She's still choosing the OM over you and your marriage. You didn't say what she did when she went to the closet for her luggage?

Pack the luggage for her and tell her to leave....now. She can go over to OMs house.


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

Where is OP?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> *My wife and I are posting this together*:
> 
> My wife of nine years had an affair. It's been over for a little over 3 months. My wife says they were friends before any of it started, I believe he sparked up the friendship with one goal in mind and that was for the PA. He was engaged and he pursued a married woman with three kids, so you


Lord Mayhem

Read the 1st sentence of his 1st paragraph of his very 1st post on his very 1st thread.

Your question is now answered.

HM64


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Lord Mayhem
> 
> Read the 1st sentence of his 1st paragraph of his very 1st post on his very 1st thread.
> 
> ...


DOH! Bart!

My bad.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> btw, the overwhelming majority of this board believes for R to work that in a work place affair the WS should quit their job


Unless you can get the OM fired.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> My opinion is that you guys should take it to PMs, then.


Hey come on.. It love in the air today .Beetwen them


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife is being cruel to you. She knows she is being cruel.

You have to ask yourself why would you love someone so cruel. Your wife surely is asking herself this question.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> Unless you can get the OM fired.


I have no problem with that


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

Ok..I'm the OP and have an update. 

Things got really bad last night. Seeing some of what was written here like I said ticked her off and got her defenses up. 

I laid it all on the table to her. Told her what I felt about how she was treating me, told her to look herself in the mirror and see if she can recognize this woman she'd become.

After much drama, after me holding my ground and ready to walk away, she broke down completely. Everything came out as far as how angry she is with herself, how she kept wanting to believe this illusion she created and on and on.

She begged me for forgiveness and expressed what I felt was true regret and remorse...I've been through the fake stuff enough with her and this was different. 

I'm certainly proceeding cautiously and it'll take a long time for any real trust to exist but I have to give her the chance. When she looked me in the eyes last night and said all that she said, I saw the woman I married for the first time in a long while. 

Thank you to everyone for your posts.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Ok..I'm the OP and have an update.
> 
> Things got really bad last night. Seeing some of what was written here like I said ticked her off and got her defenses up.
> 
> ...


That is good news. I have to caution you though, actions speak much louder than words. She expressed true regret and remorse? Is she following that up with true action? Does she still insist on contact with her affair partner? Her actions will tell the truth. I hope you find that her actions spell "true regret and remorse".


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Ok..I'm the OP and have an update.
> 
> Things got really bad last night. Seeing some of what was written here like I said ticked her off and got her defenses up.
> 
> ...


You are so very welcome. I sincerely hope that you and your wife will begin the healing process, and that both of you understand each other better. I know that sometimes we can seem brutal here (especially to your WS) however, most of us here have been there, and we have learned from experience that the only way to get to the heart of the matter is to face it all head on, and no blinking allowed. 

That being said, do keep in touch and informed of your progress. We do care.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hope it works out. Keep us up-to-date, please, OK?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Needing
take it one day at a time and you trust your gut.

Stay firm on what you need from your wife in order to be able to reconcile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Actions! Words are cheap. Actions means priorities.
Demand of her:
A NC letter aproved by yout and sent in front of you. Blocking any meaning of comunications with OM. Getting rid of reminders, mementoes, underwear, etc
Total transparence in comunication devices, acountability of whereabouts
Full disclosure (I have no doubt she was still deeep into the EA at least).
She has to educate herself about infidelity, Not just friends is a must. She learns about boundaires, the slippery slope, she comes up with real PLAN to rebuild trust and to make the marriage strong. There're tons, TONS, of online serious help, here, on marriagebuilders and another sites, books...
Whatever boundarie you chose (IC¿, MC¿, money spent back¿)

Glad to hear you put your foot down. It was an abvious dealbreaker. Let's wait she's serious and really coming out the fog.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> My wife and I are posting this together:
> 
> My wife of nine years had an affair. It's been over for a little over 3 months. My wife says they were friends before any of it started, I believe he sparked up the friendship with one goal in mind and that was for the PA. He was engaged and he pursued a married woman with three kids, so you decide.
> 
> ...


No.

In fact a past lover period even if it was not cheating is a no.

But for sure an affair partner needs to be forever no contact.

if she is using terms like jealous, insecure and controlling this is huge red flag. Did she truly go NC? 

Anyway I would tell her she must choose. This is controlling your boundaries.

In my opinion if she is still pushing this agenda she is cake eating and not all in with the marriage.

If she works with the OM she needs to quit her job, She cannot go through withdrawal until she has complete and full no contact over en extended period. If she works with him this would explain why she has yet to withdraw. Effectively the affair has not ended.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

You can't convince her to love you. She wants the other guy and you're just the safety net when things fall through. Unless you want an open marriage in which you share her with this other man, you tell her that she has to choose him or you, both isn't an option. If she doesn't want to choose to let this guy go, then you have to let her go because you can never convince someone to want you, not truly. Give her one chance to choose and give her that chance after your lawyer has drafted divorce papers. Her choice is ditch the loser or get a divorce. It won't seem real until you expose and show her on paper that you mean business. She doesn't respect you enough to be faithful much less honest, so there is no way she is going to take you seriously unless she sees that you really are serious.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Ok..I'm the OP and have an update.
> 
> Things got really bad last night. Seeing some of what was written here like I said ticked her off and got her defenses up.
> 
> ...


Good job standing your ground. I hope you learned something from this - you have to take a hard line against the things that are not good for your marriage.


However, as Acabado said, talk is cheap. Now you must make sure that she actually follows through with what she has agreed to.

Just based on the tenor of your post, you seemed so unsure that you were right when it's so obvious you were, I don't think you have what it takes yet to do what's necessary to save your marriage. Your wife's agreeing to give up the other man is not the end of the struggle to reconcile, but close to the beginning of it. It feels good now because it is fresh, and you are basking in the glow of your renewed love. But your wife held onto that relationship way too strongly for it to end that quickly. Later tonight she will be thinking of the other man again, tomorrow even more. She will be like a drug addict needing her drug. Any "hit" will set her back to the beginning of kicking the habit.

Your wife promised to give him up before, she wanted to give him up to save your marriage before, but she couldn't, so first she lied about no contact and then she told you that she could be "just friends." Almost no cheater goes no contact on the first try. Be prepared for your wife to backslide.

Give her the following conditions to stay in your marriage. All contact with the other man ceases immediately. She handwrites a no contact letter to the other man and gives it to you to mail. She gives you access to all accounts/devices. She blocks the other man on facebook and deletes him from her contacts and blocks him on email, etc.

Have her handwrite the no contact letter. She should state how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior, how terrible she feels for risking her family and marriage, which is the most important thing in the world to her, and that if he ever tries to contact her again in any way, shape, or form, she will file harassment charges against him. Stick to that content, nothing more, nothing less, no terms of endearment, no "dear," no "sorry it turned out this way," etc. She gives it to you to edit and send.

Have her handwrite a letter of apology to you.

Ask her to hand over all of the lingerie and clothes she wore to meet the other man, including shoes. Throw them out and don't replace them. Have her get a new phone. Get rid of any reminders.

If she refuses to meet your conditions, proceed with the divorce.

If your wife vehemently disagreed that she should end contact with the other man she cheated on you with, you can be sure she is going to fight like heck against doing these things, that will help YOU heal and help both of you repair your marriage to each other. If you don't heal, if she doesn't do what's needed to help you have some level of trust, your marriage will not last. To be honest, it may not last anyway. Infidelity is something that some people find they can never get over. You may also. But if she doesn't help you get over it by doing the things necessary for you to feel she is truly sorry and for you to feel you can have some level of trust, your marriage definitely won't last.

Hopefully, you have taken a look at some of the other threads on this forum and come to realize that you are not unique, your wife is not unique, your situation is not unique. Stand up to your wife to enforce the vows you took for each other. If she doesn't want to honor those vows, get out sooner rather than later, with your dignity and self-respect intact, saving yourself a lot of pain in the process. When she falls off the wagon again, take a hard line. The attraction to other man is strong, and when she falls off, she will fight you about it all over again. Don't suffer through several months of it if there is a next time.

There is more advice that I could give, but it is not something that should be shared with your wife.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Actions! Words are cheap. Actions means priorities.
> Demand of her:
> A NC letter aproved by yout and sent in front of you. Blocking any meaning of comunications with OM. Getting rid of reminders, mementoes, underwear, etc
> Total transparence in comunication devices, *acountability of whereabouts*
> ...


You and your wife should read the book, "Not Just Friends," by Shirley Glass.

She should account to you for her whereabouts 24/7 until you can reestablish some level of trust.

Also, she should give you the full truth about the affair. Look at the threads on this forum. Cheaters are liars. The truth usually makes sense. Lies do not. Cheaters are good at lying to hide the affair, making excuses of where they're going and who they're seeing, but they are horrible at coming up with explanations that make sense after you catch them. If you are getting a story that doesn't make sense, there's a very high probability that the story is a lie.

The full truth may not matter to you. I think getting the full truth is a sign of remorse, but to some the most important thing is that the affair has ended and they don't care if they ever get the full truth. If you want the full truth, you can ask her to take a polygraph test about the number of times, when it started, when it ended, and when was the last contact. These are the things most cheaters lie about.

It is very common for cheaters to re-initiate contact after the initial storm has passed and things start to quiet down.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Ok..I'm the OP and have an update.
> 
> Things got really bad last night. Seeing some of what was written here like I said ticked her off and got her defenses up.
> 
> ...


I have read posts where the women broke down worse but never changed their behavior when things got back to normal. Watch out. Crying is the ultimate manipulative tool.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Register on this site with another account she wouldn't know of.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

warlock07 said:


> I have read posts where the women broke down worse but never changed their behavior when things got back to normal. Watch out. Crying is the ultimate manipulative tool.


I want to echo this.

She is telling you what you wanted to hear, that doesn't mean anything has changed. You are not out of the woods just yet.

Keep an eye on her and be ready to pull the plug if she slips. Odds are she will so prepare yourself for that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Can the spouse that cheated and the OM still maintain a friendship after a PA?


*Absolutely NO fvcking way. *

NO way.

At all.

The only reason she wants to stay in touch with him is so she can carry on her affair.

Know that. 

If someone is truly remorseful and WANTS to make things right, they will never EVER have contact with their affair partner for as long as they live.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

larry.gray said:


> Unless you can get the OM fired.


:iagree:

One of our members, Grayson, was able to do just that. Check his thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28210-always-sucks-work-wifes-om-but-sometimes-really-sucks-3.html


:smthumbup:


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm curious - where is the OP?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I suspect he'll be back. This won't be the end of things.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sadly, I think you are right.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

justonelife said:


> I'm curious - where is the OP?


This is the OP. I'm still here. We're still moving along. I have another thread "Break throughs, moving on and questions" that went into a more general discussion of this beyond just contacting the OM. This is tied directly to it but trying to see if we're getting to true remorse or still faking it. 

She knows she can't contact him. She still seems quite adamant that she understands why and no longer has a desire to. BUT, we also know that she hasn't truly done ALL she needs to do for us to start moving on and for me to trust her. 

I'm hoping that its coming. I spelled it out and gave her the ultimatum and she says she will do this for me..I feel like it'll come this weekend. But we'll see...


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Why you wanted to be with her? She cheated on you, she banged someone on your back, lied to you through out, still wanted more from OM, I dont know why you wanted to be with her. There are plenty of good girls who will love you and respect you.

Dont believe what she said, she said this before also. so dont trust her words look for her actions. Be prepared to walk away from her with your head held high as you tried to save this marriage.

Dont allow her to string you along for a long. You deserve someone better, not her.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Well....you had a break through on this site.

Now, you have to get to Marriage Counseling immediately to pick up the pieces. Do it while the iron is hot. 

Do your homework and find one that specializes in infidelity. Don't go to any MC. A lot of them would tell you that her cheating on you was your fault somehow. Therefore, look for one that specializes.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Well, he indicates in his other thread that he's going to rug sweep this anyway. His WW is resistant and not willingly transparent because she feels too much pressure from being watched. A sign of rugsweeping and not true remorse. And he wants to trust her again so blindly....right after she just betrayed him. She's not doing any of the heavy lifting, he is.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Your WW has to quit the job, that is part of NC.

Also the OMW/GF has to be exposed.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

theroad said:


> Your WW has to quit the job, that is part of NC.
> 
> Also the OMW/GF has to be exposed.


His wife did quit her job, but the OM stayed. The problem now is that she doesn't want to be transparent because she feels like she's living under a microscope and he just wants to take her word for it that she's NC with OM. AND he's afraid of confronting/exposing the OM.


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## fishfast41 (Dec 12, 2010)

Just read through this whole thread and I agree 1000% with what just about everyone has said. NeedHelpNow...my prayers are with ya, man. Just remember that actions are what ya need to watch, and now it is your job to monitor and watch to see that her actions match words. One more thought that I didn't see posted here...You will be calling the shots on how this marriage works or doesn't work from here on in. It can't be any other way. Watch out for feelings of revenge or pay back in your requirements. You have decided to forgive and to reconcile, so it is now your primary responsibility to do it in a very firm yet very loving manner. In my opinion, this is the correct way to man up in this situation.
Best of luck to you both.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

"I know this post is slanted in favor of me..."

huh? unless you are voluntarily in an open marriage, that post is not slanted towards you. grow a pair... you sound like me 6 months ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

It troubles me that she will not give you full transparency. A true remorseful person will *show* you that they are apologetic for what they did *instead of telling you they are sorry and to trust them*. 

One of the first things that needs to be done is establish transparency. You can not take the word of a cheater saying she just went NC to the OW. She has proven to lie before, and she is not offering you proof that she won't again. Look at her actions beforehand and now. Aside from the tears, has it changed?

Also, on the topic of tears, I once heard a wise man say that tears are a woman's best defense. We use it to defuse the situation, to deflect your attention, and, sometimes, to express remorse. The difference with this is that the actions will align with the crying. It goes along with transparency and telling you whatever you wish to know.

She does not get a say on what you require for R. If she crosses those boundaries for you, then you need to decide what to do. Stay and find out about additional affairs down the line or leave. Stick with the consequences.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Can the spouse that cheated and the OM still maintain a friendship after a PA? 

*No. Even if they were friends before the PA, the open the door and it locked behind them. There is no going backwards, they have to move forward. By chosing to stay with you she has made the choice to move forward without him in her life.*

How can we reconcile if we keep the door open to this terrible part of our life?

*You cannot have true reconciliation if she continues contact. She needs to realize part of her remorse is admitting to the hurt she has caused. All of the hurt came from her relationship with the OM. That hurt will continue until the relationship is severed in every way possible. Here is the hard part. She has to want to sever that relationship, you cannot make her. Express how much this hurts you and let her know that it is a deal breaker. But you have to be willing to kick her out if she won't give him up.*


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