# Why do I stay?



## Jeanie (Nov 14, 2011)

This could get long, so I apologize in advance. I'll try to keep it brief, but I really need to outsiders opinions as to whether or not I'm nuts for staying. 

Here's my situation:

Married 12 years, 2 kids (6 & 8). My husband quit his job almost 2 years ago due to depression and hasn't been working since. I agreed to him leaving his job, however it was supposed to be for a few months, and then he was to start his own business. He was also supposed to take over all household responsibilities. He has done nothing for 2 years except sit on the couch and play Clash of Clans. 

We've had major issues in our marriage since he's been off, but mostly because he's very angry with me and blames me for everything that goes wrong. Everything came to a head in December when he wanted to decorate the house for Christmas and I didn't change my plans (that had in place for a long time) to accommodate what he wanted to do. The day after he wanted to decorate he got so mad at me for taking too long to get the groceries that he basically told me he was done with me and that I needed to move out. Did I mention he's not working? He fully expected me to agree to move out and pay for both a new place just for me, and keep him in the house. I don't think so. 

The following day (this was now Monday), he phoned me at work to demand that I come home to talk about what we were going to do. After hanging up on me, he called me back to inform me that he was packing my bag, I wasn't staying in the house any longer and we were going to tell the kids that I was leaving. I told him that there was no way that was going to happen, and he said "watch me". 

With that, I made arrangements to have my kids picked up from school (so they wouldn't get off the bus and go into his care) and called the police to alert them to the situation (this was under the advice of my lawyer). The police called my husband, told him he had no right to prevent me from staying in the house etc etc. He backed down and did apologize to me for threatening me, but now claims that he never meant it - that it was just a tactic to get me to come home. He also claims that by making sure the kids didn't go into his care I "stole" them and I'm no longer allowed to take them anywhere on my own. 

I've spent the past several months in therapy to get myself to a place where I can confront him about all of this. Overall, he has been nicer to me and so I decided to "test" the waters to see if his perspective on the problems in our marriage had changed at all (his view that I'm 100% to blame for everything). I pretty much found out that he still thinks I'm to blame, he was "wronged" when I called the police and that I still need to "make it right". 

So, this is where I think I'm nuts for having any hope that things will ever change..no matter how nice he is to me. There is obviously so much more to the story, and I'm not saying that I'm not at all responsible for the issues, but I just can't be responsible for 100% of the problems. 

So, just based on the story above, what your thoughts? I would really really appreciate any feedback. Thank you!


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Love makes it harder to let go. Think about all the people you love, and the more deeply you love them, the more bullsh1t you put up with. But, that does not mean that the love is not destroyed over time. As much as you want to love him, his actions are making it hard for you to stay in love. It is a protective mechanism that you stop putting trust in him over a certain period of time. It is hard now, but you will eventually get there as this continues. 

Those attachments you made with him are biologically being disconnected, and you will associate and trigger more negativity when you think about him.

I suggest you get all your ducks in a row, protect yourself as best as you can, document any evidence you can use in your divorce and child custody case if it ever reaches that point. Ask a lawyer on what you can legally do to gather that evidence. If the issues cannot be solved, you will gained a lot of advantages in your situation.

Here is something else to consider. Most people with issues do not want to face their problems until a catastrophic event occurs. He may not change until you decide to leave him and take away everything you bring into the relationship. He was trying to control and manipulate you. He wanted you to act out of fear and desperation most likely. If you can walk away, he has no power over you. So detach, and find a fulfilling life without him, and it would make a transition into a new life easier if the marriage is dissolved.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Well, to be sure, this is a very difficult situation. But from reading you I get the impression that you are up to it.

My overall advice: don't leave. Don't leave him. Take a stand (as you are already demonstrating) and if he is unhappy with it then he can leave. If he stays then he is accepting your stand.

There is practically no limit to how far you can go with that. Check with your lawyer on anything that might seem questionable.

1) Assume the worst of him for now. Assume he is not going to get his job back, etc. 

2)Plan your life as if you were already divorced (with the obvious exception that you don't see other men).

3) Ignore his unreasonable demands (as you have already done). Ignore his blaming you for his problems. Ignore 

4) Become the rock of the family. Don't hide his problems from your children and friends. Let him feel ashamed of who he is.

5) Do as little as you can to enable your husband. Check with your lawyer but ideally that would mean not supporting him and would not give him access to the income you earn. Realistically, that means doing what you choose to do with the family income.

Now I have many questions about how bad he is in other areas. Does he help with the meals, house, kids, etc? Or is he literally playing games all day? Is he responsible/irresponsible with the money you earn?

Please don't imagine that all of this will get easier with a divorce. Your husband is in a terrible rut in his life. You must avoid enabling him as much as practical and let him fall into a crisis that he has to dig out of.

My impression is that he is not hopeless, he knows he is a mess but he's not yet ready to take responsibility for it and blames you (and probably the world) for his ills.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Ah. The husband who packs his wife's bags and tells her to get out of the house - I've been there. I let him do it a few times, then I decided "enough was enough" and I left.

He still blames me, and me being still in love with him, am still hoping/praying things will (by miracle) work out between us. I know I'm giving myself false hope.

You don't have a right to kick your husband out of the house, and your husband doesn't have the right to kick you out of the house. That's just low - it's something you just do not do. So it's good that you called the police and showed him that you will not tolerate it!

I'd say, continue with the counselling, it will help you figure out what course of action to take. If he's not becoming a good husband and father, you'll have to eventually reach a decision about whether you can continue living with things as they are, or end it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think his reality has been cooked a bit from sitting at home playing video games all day. You're out in the world, keeping a balanced view.

It sounds like he needs real therapy. Not MC for the two of you, but IC for himself.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladymisato said:


> Well, to be sure, this is a very difficult situation. But from reading you I get the impression that you are up to it.
> 
> My overall advice: don't leave. Don't leave him. Take a stand (as you are already demonstrating) and if he is unhappy with it then he can leave. If he stays then he is accepting your stand.
> 
> ...


:iagree: 

Also get rid of his game equipment.... he does not need that. It is only serving to make his mental health issues worse.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ugh. What a weak guy. You probably have no choice but to do as ladymisato says. Divorcing him would mean he has charge of the children all by himself at times, and that does not sound safe.

So sorry to read all this, OP. Must feel awful to be married to someone who deserves so little respect.


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## Jeanie (Nov 14, 2011)

So, I'm back. And I'm sorry to say that things have not improved over the past couple of weeks. In fact, I've made an appointment with a lawyer for later this week. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to think about doing but last night was the straw that broke the camel's back. Ever since the incident in December that forced me to call the police, he's been saying I need to make it up to him for doing that, and my parents owe him an apology as well (very long story as to why - I won't bore you). But basically he realized last night that I was not going to "make it up to him" or ask my parents to apologize to him, so he has declared that until my parents "beg for his forgiveness" that our kids will not see them or any other member of my family. I've been isolated as it is from my family being married to H, but him not allowing my parents in my children's lives is just not going to happen. My kids adore my parents (and their aunts, uncles, cousins etc). And this is all because H wants "revenge" against me (his exact words). He wants to make me hurt. And the worst part is that my kids heard him yelling at me last night. Fortunately I don't think they heard exactly what he said, but they knew he was yelling at me again. 

This is going to be so hard and I'm so scared, but I can't believe any longer that staying in the marriage is the best thing for me and my children. I have to believe that in the end we will all be better off (H included). I just don't think I'm the one to make him happy...well actually that's pretty clear since he says I suck the joy out of everything. It will be nice to not hear how horrible I am almost daily.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Jeanie said:


> So, I'm back. And I'm sorry to say that things have not improved over the past couple of weeks. In fact, I've made an appointment with a lawyer for later this week. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to think about doing but last night was the straw that broke the camel's back. Ever since the incident in December that forced me to call the police, he's been saying I need to make it up to him for doing that, and my parents owe him an apology as well (very long story as to why - I won't bore you). But basically he realized last night that I was not going to "make it up to him" or ask my parents to apologize to him, so he has declared that until my parents "beg for his forgiveness" that our kids will not see them or any other member of my family. I've been isolated as it is from my family being married to H, but him not allowing my parents in my children's lives is just not going to happen. My kids adore my parents (and their aunts, uncles, cousins etc). And this is all because H wants "revenge" against me (his exact words). He wants to make me hurt. And the worst part is that my kids heard him yelling at me last night. Fortunately I don't think they heard exactly what he said, but they knew he was yelling at me again.
> 
> This is going to be so hard and I'm so scared, but I can't believe any longer that staying in the marriage is the best thing for me and my children. I have to believe that in the end we will all be better off (H included). I just don't think I'm the one to make him happy...well actually that's pretty clear since he says I suck the joy out of everything. It will be nice to not hear how horrible I am almost daily.


Is your husband taking depression medication? If not, you mentioned he is depressed - and it sounds like he definitely should be taking medication for it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm curious as to what exactly you're scared of. I realize change is scary but if you take a step back for a minute you might see that you're not losing anything.

Control over you is probably the only thing that he has any control over in his pathetic little world. By the way, the longer you put up with his sh!t while he's not working the more you're going to have to pay to support him. 

What do you suppose would happen if you simply told him to f!ck off? I'd be he'll throw quite a tantrum because he's used to you rolling over for him but otherwise what is he going to do?

And be prepared for him to do a 180 as soon as he's served and his meal plan is about to be gone....he'll all of a sudden "get it", he'll tell you how much he loves you and how much he wants to make this right, probably fawn all over you and tell you how wonderful you are. But it's an act.....he's shown you who he is and what he thinks of you when he thinks you won't do anything about it. Stop kissing his arse and tell him to go to hvll. I have experience in calling a bully's bluff.

And the answer to your original question is you stay because you get something out of the dynamic.


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## Jeanie (Nov 14, 2011)

To answer Orange peako's question....my husband take 5 different prescriptions, plus a lot of alcohol and pot. Of course he doesn't tell his Dr this....so who knows whether or not his ****tail is truly working.

I'm scared because once I make the decision to go, therll be no turning back. He is a very angry and spiteful person. He's not speaking to most of his family and no longer tolerates mine either. His friends have pretty much written him off and I am the kids clear favorite. I would never deny them access to their father...but once I make the decision to go....he will unleash an all out war on me. There is zero chance this can be done amicably....so I'm scared of his wrath and I don't trust he'll keep it between us. He'll badmouth me to the kids every chance he gets. 

He's supposed to be their primary care giver....but as example today there was no school. I called home at noon and my 8 year old answers. No they hadn't eaten and no daddy wasn't up yet. This happens every time he's to be looking after them. Plus he calls me the unfit parent. This is just how twisted his mind is.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Jeanie said:


> To answer Orange peako's question....my husband take 5 different prescriptions, plus a lot of alcohol and pot. Of course he doesn't tell his Dr this....so who knows whether or not his ****tail is truly working.
> 
> I'm scared because once I make the decision to go, therll be no turning back. He is a very angry and spiteful person. He's not speaking to most of his family and no longer tolerates mine either. His friends have pretty much written him off and I am the kids clear favorite. I would never deny them access to their father...but once I make the decision to go....he will unleash an all out war on me. There is zero chance this can be done amicably....so I'm scared of his wrath and I don't trust he'll keep it between us. He'll badmouth me to the kids every chance he gets.
> 
> He's supposed to be their primary care giver....but as example today there was no school. I called home at noon and my 8 year old answers. No they hadn't eaten and no daddy wasn't up yet. This happens every time he's to be looking after them. Plus he calls me the unfit parent. This is just how twisted his mind is.


The combination of meds, alcohol and pot is bound to cause a storm. Is he an addict? If he is you cannot change his behaviour or make him treat you better. You need to start living as if you are going to leave him. Start to emotionally detach with love. You may even need to join an AA support group and follow their 12 step program to cope with living in this storm. Your H has serious issues and frankly him being the carer when on drugs (of any kind) doesn't bode well for your kids well being. I would start making moves to get out of this toxic environment. It is highly likely that you will have many that support you in this.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Have you consider that taking the children away is in their best interest at the moment? You know him, so imagine your children being a version of him, and what effect that will have on their future, how they turn out, and no one will want them in their lives. He is the dominant figure, the stronger personality, so lots of what they learn on how to behave will come from him as a role model.

Your making your decisions on fear, when it should be made in a more logical manner. I just showed you a logical point to consider, in which your children will be healthier individuals if removed from him as a factor.

Hopefully your next step is therapy, working on your self-esteem, because it is better to be single and at least have some happiness you can find from yourself, without living in the fear and anxiety, then to live in the state that you are in.

If your asking me on why you are staying, it is your attachment to him. It makes it hard for you to leave. Attachments want to be reinforced, and your attachment to him wants to give you hope that things will get better, so you stay. Your staying is enabling him because the consequences are not that dire in order for him to change. When something strong enough effects his well-being enough, it will motivate him to change. It is like someone eating bad food until they suffer a heart attack. The heart attack causes a new motivation to change one's behavior for one's well-being.

Your staying may be detrimental to him, to you and especially to your children.


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

I agree with Fisty. But having been in a similar situation I'd say you stay out of fear. It's scary to take your kids and completely change their lives and yours. But the only solution to your problem is for him to accept to go to some serious counselling and not once/month, I mean once/week of personal counselling and marriage counselling. It doesn't sound like he thinks he has anything to work on. He's fearful of himself and his issues. 

Your children are not safe with a man who is a drug addict, depressed, neglectful and alcoholic so if you can't do it for yourself do it for them. They deserve to be safe and taken care of. 

It's only going to get worse if you're in counselling and he is not because you will start to realize all the co-dependency you have with him, and how you are enabling him, and your own issues, and if he is not taking a long hard look in the mirror, you changing the rules of the game to honour yourself will only trigger him more and he will become worse not better. You can't change another person.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm concerned that he will claim that he's the primary care giver so he should get primary custody. From what you describe your children should not be with him unsupervised. 

But it is going to be hard for you to argue that since you have allowed him to be what appears to be the primary care giver.

You need evidence that he's not trust worthy.

I suggest that you get at least one VAR (voice activated recorder) and 'spy' type video camera. They came in all kinds of disguises like stuffed toys, clock radios, wall outlets, etc. 

Keep VAR on you all the tie when you are around him. Hide one or two in the house.. like on top of a china closet where he cannot see it.

Use the VAR and camera to record him in his outbursts. Talk to him about him mixing alcohol and pot with some pretty hefty prescriptions. 

Get evidence.


Also, find out what the laws are in your state for recording conversations. If you tell me your state (PM if you want privacy) I'll look up the laws.

You need to get evidence.


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