# men and cars



## uhtred

Its generally believed, or at least implied in advertising, that frequently men buy cars to impress women. So.... does it work? Does the type of car a man drives change you opinion of him, and if so, how?


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## Giro flee

Well I know little to nothing about cars. I have no idea what kind of car most people are driving, unless it's something super unusual. When I do notice somebody driving some snazzy sports car I think what a waste of money, worse than when people spend three thousand dollars on a handbag. I'm just too careful with money to appreciate wasting it on a vehicle.


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## Faithful Wife

Yes, it does. The kind of car a man drives could be a plus or a minus for me.

But what it says about the guy has changed for me over time, as I have changed.

Me in high school = a 1970 beater Chevy Nova was fine by me...as long as it would not strand us while on a date, no problem

Me in college years = I had kids by this age so I was interested in 4 door cars that had safe back seats for baby seats, also that would not strand us somewhere with small children in tow

Me in my 30's = I could finally afford a "decent" car by this time and was mostly impressed with other "decent" cars (my tastes are pretty simple in cars)

Me in my 40's = I bought my first Cadillac in my 40's and fell in love...turned that one in on a better one which I still drive now and love...I am now impressed by other cars that in my opinion (still pretty simple taste but it has a certain flavor) are "nice" (have upgraded from "decent")

- - - -

Cadillac's are not everyone's cup of tea. Some of the guys I have dated recently have teased me about my car. They were the ones who tended to drive European or Japanese cars. The guys who drove or have driven American cars love my caddy.

I have liked all the cars of the guys I have recently dated and also always like my ex-H's truck. At our age, I do expect a certain level of class in one's automobile. Where I live, it is not that common for people to drive really expensive cars, so I really don't ever even expect anyone to drive one. If I dated someone who did drive an extremely expensive or souped up car, I may feel a little weird about it. But I never have* so this is just speculation. Maybe I'd love it? All I know is an expensive or "impressive" car has never been something I've looked for or expected in any guy I've dated.

My current guy drives a unique type of car that is not all that expensive but can perform like a race car. It is really cool and fun because unless you know what this special model car is, you would just assume it is an average family-type car. Kind of a little secret he has.

He also likes my caddy because he used to drive one.

(*actually a couple of guys I dated in high school did have classic cars that were an incredible amount of muscle and speed....the beater Nova was just one guy.)


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## MrsAldi

Men buy cars for themselves, as far as I'm aware. 
I'd rather date an average car driving man, than a Ferrari driver now. 
When you date a rich man, you are just another one of his accessories. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

MrsAldi said:


> Men buy cars for themselves, as far as I'm aware.
> I'd rather date an average car driving man, than a Ferrari driver now.
> *When you date a rich man, you are just another one of his accessories.*


Unless you are also rich? I do know a couple of ladies who have a lot of coin who drive cars that are expensive (they do not live in my area) and for them, I can see they would want to date a man who was at least at their same income level, including the kind of car they drive.


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## uhtred

I understand. OTOH, the really rich guys don't tend to drive Ferrari's - unless they just happen to think it would be fun. Cars are a status symbol up to a point, then not. Above that its biz-jets. Above that its endowments to schools and charities. 

I used to drive econoboxes. I recently bough a sports car - and to be honest it makes me feel a bit stupid. I got it just for fun, but can't shake the feeling that it looks like I'm *trying* too hard. 


I think a fair number of men do buy cars to impress, but its hard to know for sure. 




MrsAldi said:


> Men buy cars for themselves, as far as I'm aware.
> I'd rather date an average car driving man, than a Ferrari driver now.
> When you date a rich man, you are just another one of his accessories.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## wild jade

I've dated a couple of guys that thought I really ought to be impressed by their cool cars. But I wasn't. Who cares about some penis extension Porsche that's always in the shop?

I have been impressed by cars on occasion, particularly vintage and classics catch my eye, but a guy who thinks I ought to be all gushy and thinking more highly of him because of his car is an instant turn-off.

Short answer I guess is yes, cars can be cool. But guys who think they're cool because of their cars aren't.


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## Fozzy

Where I live, most of the guys that drive "nice" cars are Call-Center Thirty-Thousand-Dollar Millionaires. And they wear those god-awful sunglasses with the white plastic frames. Frequently with Tap-out shirts.


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## Lostme

Nope does not matter to me.


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## john117

uhtred said:


> Its generally believed, or at least implied in advertising, that frequently men buy cars to impress women. So.... does it work? Does the type of car a man drives change you opinion of him, and if so, how?


My Mini Cooper S impresses my interns... Other than that... Not sure.


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## MrsHolland

Well for me the answer is yes, the car he drives does matter. My cars on average cost over the $100k range so of course I don't want a man that drives a crappy car. Doesn't mean I think he is a great guy, just means that I want an equal when it come to what they can afford.


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## Capricious

It does not really matter to me, as long as the car is reliable and in good working condition.


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## john117

MrsHolland said:


> Well for me the answer is yes, the car he drives does matter. My cars on average cost over the $100k range so of course I don't want a man that drives a crappy car. Doesn't mean I think he is a great guy, just means that I want an equal when it come to what they can afford.


$100k on average? That's Maserati Quatroporte territory...


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## Capricious

Or a Range Rover (well at least from where I am).


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## john117

Or a Honda Civic in Singapore


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## Capricious

john117 said:


> Or a Honda Civic in Singapore


Wow for real :surprise: Talk about putting things into perspective.


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## john117

Yea, back then I had a classmate from there, wealthy dude. Dad sent him $65-70k to buy a Civic type car, he bought a used Acura NSX 

Most of the money is driving permit and parking type fees.


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## Capricious

I bet he was a very popular classmate. I remember the life of the student...being forever broke.

Sorry for the thread jack.


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## MrsHolland

john117 said:


> $100k on average? That's Maserati Quatroporte territory...


We are ripped off to the hilt with cars here. A Maserati is over $200K. 

My last 2 cars have been Lexus 450gh Hybrids, $130K plus here, think they are about half that in The States.


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## ReformedHubby

I spend an awful lot on cars. Not for women though...because I like driving them. The really nice ones are like art to me. I definitely think a high end car attracts women. I've experienced this a lot...which honestly isn't a good thing. I don't think driving something like a Mercedes, BMW, or an Audi makes much of a difference. Anyone can get one of those these days. My best car is an Aston Martin, and women definitely take notice. The most direct come on was a woman that came up to me and asked to be my Bond girl at the grocery store. Its also not unusual at all to see a woman smiling at me at the stoplight when I look to my left or right. There also have been many instances of people chatting me up if they find out what I drive. So I would say that yes, nice cars do attract women.


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## john117

MrsHolland said:


> We are ripped off to the hilt with cars here. A Maserati is over $200K.
> 
> My last 2 cars have been Lexus 450gh Hybrids, $130K plus here, think they are about half that in The States.


Ouch. Indeed twice. Of course Australian dollar is .77 of USD but still ouch.


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## rockon




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## arbitrator

MrsAldi said:


> Men buy cars for themselves, as far as I'm aware.
> I'd rather date an average car driving man, than a Ferrari driver now.
> *When you date a rich man, you are just another one of his accessories.*
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


*Or even the exact same can be said about a wealthy woman!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, it does. The kind of car a man drives could be a plus or a minus for me.
> 
> But what it says about the guy has changed for me over time, as I have changed.
> 
> Me in high school = a 1970 beater Chevy Nova was fine by me...as long as it would not strand us while on a date, no problem
> 
> Me in college years = I had kids by this age so I was interested in 4 door cars that had safe back seats for baby seats, also that would not strand us somewhere with small children in tow
> 
> Me in my 30's = I could finally afford a "decent" car by this time and was mostly impressed with other "decent" cars (my tastes are pretty simple in cars)
> 
> Me in my 40's = I bought my first Cadillac in my 40's and fell in love...turned that one in on a better one which I still drive now and love...I am now impressed by other cars that in my opinion (still pretty simple taste but it has a certain flavor) are "nice" (have upgraded from "decent")
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Cadillac's are not everyone's cup of tea. Some of the guys I have dated recently have teased me about my car. They were the ones who tended to drive European or Japanese cars. The guys who drove or have driven American cars love my caddy.
> 
> I have liked all the cars of the guys I have recently dated and also always like my ex-H's truck. At our age, I do expect a certain level of class in one's automobile. Where I live, it is not that common for people to drive really expensive cars, so I really don't ever even expect anyone to drive one. If I dated someone who did drive an extremely expensive or souped up car, I may feel a little weird about it. But I never have* so this is just speculation. Maybe I'd love it? All I know is an expensive or "impressive" car has never been something I've looked for or expected in any guy I've dated.
> 
> My current guy drives *a unique type of car *that is not all that expensive but can perform like a race car. It is really cool and fun because unless you know what this special model car is, you would just assume it is an average family-type car. Kind of a little secret he has.
> 
> He also likes my caddy because he used to drive one.
> 
> (*actually a couple of guys I dated in high school did have classic cars that were an incredible amount of muscle and speed....the beater Nova was just one guy.)


We called them *"Sleepers". *I bought my dad's old 58 Ford Station Wagon. I put a blueprinted 425hp "406" in it [from a wrecked 1962 Galaxy]. I had a single large tail pipe with quiet exhaust mufflers.

I won a lot of money on the street with it [beer money!].

I ended up totaling it. The motor was jinxed, right?


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## Betrayedone

Wow.......Lots of car bashing here........I have lots of cars because I like them. Always have..........most are 60's musclecars (69 amx, 70amx, 72 javelin, 64 corvette, 2010 challenger, 05 aston martin) because that was my interest since high school. I have a couple of newer sports cars because I appreciate the technology and the driving experience. 6 collector cars total.........Good news? They don't lose money and are solid investments. I will always at least break even when I sell them. Cars are my art.......I choose them for their lines and design. I couldn't give a rip if a woman likes/dislikes my cars. I don't need a fancy car to attract a woman..........my smile does that for me..............


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## giddiot

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, it does. The kind of car a man drives could be a plus or a minus for me.
> 
> But what it says about the guy has changed for me over time, as I have changed.
> 
> Me in high school = a 1970 beater Chevy Nova was fine by me...as long as it would not strand us while on a date, no problem
> 
> Me in college years = I had kids by this age so I was interested in 4 door cars that had safe back seats for baby seats, also that would not strand us somewhere with small children in tow
> 
> Me in my 30's = I could finally afford a "decent" car by this time and was mostly impressed with other "decent" cars (my tastes are pretty simple in cars)
> 
> Me in my 40's = I bought my first Cadillac in my 40's and fell in love...turned that one in on a better one which I still drive now and love...I am now impressed by other cars that in my opinion (still pretty simple taste but it has a certain flavor) are "nice" (have upgraded from "decent")
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Cadillac's are not everyone's cup of tea. Some of the guys I have dated recently have teased me about my car. They were the ones who tended to drive European or Japanese cars. The guys who drove or have driven American cars love my caddy.
> 
> I have liked all the cars of the guys I have recently dated and also always like my ex-H's truck. At our age, I do expect a certain level of class in one's automobile. Where I live, it is not that common for people to drive really expensive cars, so I really don't ever even expect anyone to drive one. If I dated someone who did drive an extremely expensive or souped up car, I may feel a little weird about it. But I never have* so this is just speculation. Maybe I'd love it? All I know is an expensive or "impressive" car has never been something I've looked for or expected in any guy I've dated.
> 
> My current guy drives a unique type of car that is not all that expensive but can perform like a race car. It is really cool and fun because unless you know what this special model car is, you would just assume it is an average family-type car. Kind of a little secret he has.
> 
> He also likes my caddy because he used to drive one.
> 
> (*actually a couple of guys I dated in high school did have classic cars that were an incredible amount of muscle and speed....the beater Nova was just one guy.)




Subaru right?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## *Deidre*

My fiance drives a pick up truck, and it suits him. When I think of pick up truck drivers, I have always thought of tough guys. lol Idk why. I've dated guys who were white collar types and they drove BMW's and one guy drove a Mercedes, and they were boring and seemed like they actually thought their cars were aphrodisiacs.


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## dubsey

SunCMars said:


> We called them *"Sleepers". *I bought my dad's old 58 Ford Station Wagon. I put a blueprinted 425hp "406" in it [from a wrecked 1962 Galaxy]. I had a single large tail pipe with quiet exhaust mufflers.
> 
> I won a lot of money on the street with it [beer money!].
> 
> I ended up totaling it. The motor was jinxed, right?


rather than a sleeper, I assume it's a hot-hatch of some kind - Focus ST, Golf R or GTI, Subaru STi, etc.


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## uhtred

Its funny, I've always thought that men who drive big trucks just for show were compensating. I'm not talking about someone who uses a truck, but the giant off-road capable truck without a speck of dirt or a scratch on it that has probably never seen a dirt road, or hauled anything bigger than groceries. 

I have not problem at all with men who use trucks. 



*Deidre* said:


> My fiance drives a pick up truck, and it suits him. When I think of pick up truck drivers, I have always thought of tough guys. lol Idk why. I've dated guys who were white collar types and they drove BMW's and one guy drove a Mercedes, and they were boring and seemed like they actually thought their cars were aphrodisiacs.


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## *Deidre*

uhtred said:


> Its funny, I've always thought that men who drive big trucks just for show were compensating. I'm not talking about someone who uses a truck, but the giant off-road capable truck without a speck of dirt or a scratch on it that has probably never seen a dirt road, or hauled anything bigger than groceries.
> 
> I have not problem at all with men who use trucks.


haha I understand that view. He uses his truck on his parents' farm. Sexy/10


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## tripod

Is this the appropriate place to ask an eternal question: What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine? 

With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.

No? Not the right place. Sorry.


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## *Deidre*

tripod said:


> Is this the appropriate place to ask an eternal question: What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?
> 
> With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.
> 
> No? Not the right place. Sorry.


LOL


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## tropicalbeachiwish

It doesn't matter to me what you drive but it does matter how well you take care of it. It should be clean and not stink. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## tech-novelist

Faithful Wife said:


> Unless you are also rich? I do know a couple of ladies who have a lot of coin who drive cars that are expensive (they do not live in my area) and for them, *I can see they would want to date a man who was at least at their same income level*, including the kind of car they drive.


Why would they want *that*? That sounds like... nah, I won't get into that here. >


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## soccermom2three

I agree with tropical above. If you don't maintain your car, it's dirty and trash everywhere, I'm going to judge you. 

I'm my father's daughter when it comes to cars. Vintage, classic or muscle cars are really my thing. Cars that have beautiful, powerful engines. I also like a really nice truck or jeep. I enjoy going to classics car shows.

I cannot stand the Fast and Furious wannabe cars.


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## john117

Try driving one . Muscle cars are great and all that, but computers have their uses too. 

Maybe MrsHolland could ditch the SUV and get herself a Skyline GTR? Ok, it's $180K Au but... Skyline...


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## Faithful Wife

tech-novelist said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are also rich? I do know a couple of ladies who have a lot of coin who drive cars that are expensive (they do not live in my area) and for them, *I can see they would want to date a man who was at least at their same income level*, including the kind of car they drive.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would they want *that*? That sounds like... nah, I won't get into that here.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be the opposite of red pill though? Wouldn't red pill insist she will only be turned on by him/his car if it is way more expensive than hers? Isn't she only attracted upwards, not horizontally, according to RP?


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## tech-novelist

I like this car: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2008-Acura-TL-Type-S-t31744.


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## john117

The muscle car contingent should check out more refined horsepower enhanced vehicles... 

Look at the new Alfa Romeo 4C, or the Giulia Quadrifoglio... Yea, it'll be temperamental, but such is life...


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## giddiot

john117 said:


> The muscle car contingent should check out more refined horsepower enhanced vehicles...
> 
> Look at the new Alfa Romeo 4C, or the Giulia Quadrifoglio... Yea, it'll be temperamental, but such is life...




I like the Alfa Romeo but I Love my Dodge Challenger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## john117

giddiot said:


> I like the Alfa Romeo but I Love my Dodge Challenger.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Give it a couple years and your Challenger will be a lot more Italian ... The Jeep Renegade and Dodge Dart and a couple others are Fiat platforms.


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## Looking2Change

I have 4 cars 1 regular Mazda, a SmartCar for my business (Which I never drive it's just wrapped and a mobile billboard, I have a Range Rover as my daily driver and an Alfa Romeo 4C is my toy. I LOVE cars and bought them for ME but I will say when driving the Alfa women def. look at you differently. They come up to me and talk to me out of the blue say things as I'm driving by. It is def. a chick-magnet but those aren't the types of women I would want anyways.


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## WorkingOnMe

My daily vehicle the last three years has been a BMW motorcycle. When I need a cage I have an F250. Nobody seems impressed by either. Although a few people (kids, wife, sister in law) have ridden on the back of the bike and they seem pretty pumped after.


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## Big Tree

giddiot said:


> I like the Alfa Romeo but I Love my Dodge Challenger.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Mine. Judge away....

http://carsmag.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/2013-Dodge-Challenger-Redline-3-Coat-Pearl.jpg


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## WorkingOnMe

Nice car. Sorry about your unit.


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## Pam

I drive a Lexus 450h (I don't have a g in there) but it's six years old. I bought it because it was practical for what I need, but it didn't even cost half of what they cost where Mrs. H lives. That caused a gasp.

And I am past the point of caring what a guy drives.


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## farsidejunky

I have always been a muscle car fan. I had a '67 Mustang in high school, and sold it when I left for the army...regrettably.

Here is what I have now, 22 years in the making:


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## DustyDog

I really try to see things in a big-picture way. So, while I usually like to pretend to be elite and not care what impression I make - I know better. To some extent, people do make snap judgments.

However, I only take it to a point.

I know a bit about the self-image I wish to portray: I am not flashy, don't want to be. I'm not needy, and am not addicted to consumerism. I am exceptionally competent at what I do. I investigate things more deeply than most people. I like to be engaged, not buffered/protected from things. I like finding hidden gems. I take care of things properly whether something I own or a personal relationship I cherish. Not sure a car can convey all that, but it can convey some of it.

Some of what comes to mind, then: 

- The car must not be new, because a "new" car expresses a certain disregard for the environment (making the car is a worse environmental injury than a lifetime of use of it) and a cavalier approach to spending financial resources...and, the only reason most people think "new is better" is because the ads and politicians tell you. 
- The kind of car that really connects you to the driving experience is a high-performance car, but most of them are garishly flashy. And it's not the engine that does the connecting, it's a finely-tuned well-balanced chassis and suspension. So, what's available that looks ordinary but has performance-based underpinnings? BMW used to, but they've gone soft in the last 10 years, and they clearly convey a message of "posh" and "expensive.
- Whatever I own, it will be cared for reasonably - not over-cared as in what a dealer wants you to do, but it will be maintained in safe and reliable running order and look new or at least above average for its age.

Given the above and some practicality, I ended up with two.

1) Used Infiniti G sedan w/manual trans. A 4-door with a few more curves than most, but not as gregarious as some. A bit too much chrome, so I painted the larger swashes of it body-color. Front-mid engine, balanced weight front/rear, chassis and suspension derived from Nissan's racing division. Ride is firm but not harsh, anybody who's in it has said it's comfortable. And it'll take curves like nobody's business.

If I'm going to meet someone, I don't say "look for the Infiniti G" I say look for a white 4-door with very dark tinted windows. Mostly, people don't notice what it is, and that's fine with me.


2) 12 year old Toyota truck. Looks almost like new, has 190k miles on it, runs like a top. I plan to keep it another 100k at least.


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## UMP

tripod said:


> Is this the appropriate place to ask an eternal question: What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?
> 
> With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.
> 
> No? Not the right place. Sorry.


I always find it so fascinating how some have preconceived notions about people and their personalities based on the car they drive. I love cars, big, small, old, new, whatever.

As the years have gone by I can tell you exactly how people are going to act around me based on what I am driving. If I want to piss people off all I have to do is drive the Ferrari. If I want them to stay clear and not even know I exist I drive "rusty" the 1984 Chevy pickup truck.

I buy/drive cars for the shear driving pleasure, the visual art and the utility. If people are going to judge me by the car I drive, that's their problem. I could give a rats asss what they think because I'm having too much fun driving.


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## GreyEcho

I just keep it simple


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## EllisRedding

I drive this badboy, straight up chick magnet


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## rockon

UMP said:


> I buy/drive cars for the shear driving pleasure, the visual art and the utility. If people are going to judge me by the car I drive, that's their problem. *I could give a rats asss what they think* because I'm having too much fun driving.


I have owned an old Honda civic, Hyundai accent all the way up to a Ford F-150 and Chevy Yukon. It always amazed me the way people treat you by the car you drive, as UMP put it, I learned not to give a rats ass also.

Right now I'm doing a frame off restoration of a 1972 Porsche 914. Wonder how I will be treated by people when I'm done with it!


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## MrsHolland

UMP said:


> I always find it so fascinating how some have preconceived notions about people and their personalities based on the car they drive. I love cars, big, small, old, new, whatever.
> 
> As the years have gone by I can tell you exactly how people are going to act around me based on what I am driving. If I want to piss people off all I have to do is drive the Ferrari. If I want them to stay clear and not even know I exist I drive "rusty" the 1984 Chevy pickup truck.
> 
> I buy/drive cars for the shear driving pleasure, the visual art and the utility. If people are going to judge me by the car I drive, that's their problem. I could give a rats asss what they think because I'm having too much fun driving.


Totally agree. Where I live BMW's (and yes I have owned one in the past) Merc's etc are pretty common. Most around here drive cars well above the $50k plus range, does that mean they are all pr.icks?

I love driving and I like comfortable, fast cars. I do however judge some peoples colour choice, some are plain old ugly.


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## Andy1001

I drove a Bugatti veyron on the autobahn in Germany while visiting a business associate.This car could reach over 250 mph.I never got over 60,couldn't get past all the Sunday drivers.


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## giddiot

This is mine.


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## uhtred

And that is exactly why it makes more sense to own an airplane than a high end car.

A 50 year old Baron economy cruises at >200mph, tops out around 240 level (300 in a dive) and you can pull all the 2G turns you want.



Andy1001 said:


> I drove a Bugatti veyron on the autobahn in Germany while visiting a business associate.This car could reach over 250 mph.I never got over 60,couldn't get past all the Sunday drivers.


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## GuyInColorado

I used to be obsessed with nice/fast cars. But now that I'm older (35), I want something practical and paid off. It's nice to be able afford a nice car but have your money tied up in better investments.

The two girls I've dated post divorce liked my truck. Plus, it has a great back seat to do fun things in! Had sex the first time with both of them in this thing. I may never get rid of it.

My '11 F-250 with 215k miles. I'll always own a truck. Seats 6 legally, hauls whatever I want, and definitely feels manly driving. A truck plus a fast sports car with a manual is the ultimate garage.


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## UMP

rockon said:


> I have owned an old Honda civic, Hyundai accent all the way up to a Ford F-150 and Chevy Yukon. It always amazed me the way people treat you by the car you drive, as UMP put it, I learned not to give a rats ass also.
> 
> Right now I'm doing a frame off restoration of a 1972 Porsche 914. Wonder how I will be treated by people when I'm done with it!


My Ferrari is the cheapest most common one, the "Magnum PI" car, a 1984 308.
I still get an audible "f$ck You" almost every time I drive it.

It just blows my mind.

Although it could get much worse. I have a business acquaintance in Mexico who says he has friends who own fancy cars. In order to drive them they MUST have a body guard follow them wherever they go in a separate car. Otherwise, they will be robbed and killed.


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## UMP

uhtred said:


> And that is exactly why it makes more sense to own an airplane than a high end car.
> 
> A 50 year old Baron economy cruises at >200mph, tops out around 240 level (300 in a dive) and you can pull all the 2G turns you want.


One problem, the weather.
Also, when you get to your destination you still need a car.
I have flown a Baron and they are fantastic. Basically a flying tank.
Early on I used to love flying and followed it as a career. I quit because I knew I could not keep my zipper up on extended trips. I'm a weak person:grin2:

Afterwards it just lost it's luster. Doing it day in and day out, you end up feeling like a bus driver.


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## Married but Happy

I never noticed any effect based on the car I drove. I did own one sporty car, but only because I really enjoyed driving it. Otherwise, I suspect most women mainly care about comfort, cleanliness, perhaps safety, and that they won't feel embarrassed if someone they know sees them in it.


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## Bananapeel

I drive an old beat up 4X4 SUV. It is very practical for hauling kids, dogs, hunting/fishing gear, and does great off road. I can afford to buy anything I want but just don't see the need. I keep thinking about a sports car or replacing my SUV with a new pickup, but just haven't desired them enough to pull the trigger on a purchase. Due to the weather where I live I need to keep a 4X4 that I don't care about, so if I were to buy something new it would just be a second car for nicer weather days. Fortunately, women don't seem to care about my car. They look at my career and house and realize that my vehicle is just a choice that I could change at any time. 

The best car I ever owned was a classic mustang from the 60's. Driving it always put a smile on my face and everybody loved it regardless of gender or age. I still miss that thing.


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## uhtred

All true OTOH, Ferraris and the like are not exactly practical transportation either. 

I think you are being a bit unfair to Barons. Now an Aztruck, I mean Aztek is a flying tank though I agree that the baron is not exactly..nimble. I used to have a Bonanza, and in the usual upgrade madness convinced my wife that a twin would be good for safety. Having gone there, its not exactly easy to argue that what I really want to fly now is a Marchetti......

The stresses on pilots are really tough. All those beautiful young women who would love to go for a flight....






UMP said:


> One problem, the weather.
> Also, when you get to your destination you still need a car.
> I have flown a Baron and they are fantastic. Basically a flying tank.
> Early on I used to love flying and followed it as a career. I quit because I knew I could not keep my zipper up on extended trips. I'm a weak person:grin2:
> 
> Afterwards it just lost it's luster. Doing it day in and day out, you end up feeling like a bus driver.


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## rockon

UMP said:


> My Ferrari is the cheapest most common one, the "Magnum PI" car, a 1984 308.
> I still get an audible "f$ck You" almost every time I drive it.
> 
> It just blows my mind.
> 
> Although it could get much worse. I have a business acquaintance in Mexico who says he has friends who own fancy cars. In order to drive them they MUST have a body guard follow them wherever they go in a separate car. Otherwise, they will be robbed and killed.


Yea.......but it's still a Ferrari!!

My guess is it's simple envy with the FU attitude.


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## Rowan

I love cars! I'm a car girl! And, yes, I do judge a bit based on a man's vehicle. A man's car can tell you a bit about his lifestyle and whether he truly enjoys driving or simply sees it as a means to get from point A to point B. I tend to be more drawn to men who truly enjoy driving. A small commuter car doesn't convey that. A performance car does. But simply driving a nice car doesn't do it for me. The guys who drive great cars because they think it helps pick up women are usually pretty easy to spot - they don't actually know or care much about their vehicle as long as chicks dig it. However, at least for me, an attraction to a car is not the same as an attraction to the driver. If a man can't speak intelligently about his own automobile, and isn't into that thrill of driving a great machine, then I'm much happier for him just to go away so I can ogle his ride in peace.


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## ReformedHubby

UMP said:


> My Ferrari is the cheapest most common one, the "Magnum PI" car, a 1984 308.
> I still get an audible "f$ck You" almost every time I drive it.


Yeah...it can be a little unnerving the way some people react to high end cars. When I drive my Aston Martin, in addition to smiling women or kids pointing. I also get flipped the bird every now and then too. At first I was thinking to myself maybe I cut them off and didn't realize it. But after a while I realized that nope...its just how some people react to the car. Actually had multiple acquaintances say something like "I don't need expensive things to be happy". Which I take as a passive aggressive shot at me. I don't need an expensive car to be happy either. But I sure do like them.


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## UMP

ReformedHubby said:


> Yeah...it can be a little unnerving the way some people react to high end cars. When I drive my Aston Martin, in addition to smiling women or kids pointing. I also get flipped the bird every now and then too. At first I was thinking to myself maybe I cut them off and didn't realize it. But after a while I realized that nope...its just how some people react to the car. Actually had multiple acquaintances say something like "I don't need expensive things to be happy". Which I take as a passive aggressive shot at me. I don't need an expensive car to be happy either. But I sure do like them.


It's actually a no brainer. Your Aston Martin will always retain its value and most likely increase in value unless you wreck it. 
To be able to enjoy something while it appreciates in value is called a win-win.


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## TX-SC

I hope not! My truck (Tundra) has 275,000 miles and doesn't look so great anymore. But, I bought it new in 2003 and it still drives great!


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## Celes

uhtred said:


> Its generally believed, or at least implied in advertising, that frequently men buy cars to impress women. So.... does it work? Does the type of car a man drives change you opinion of him, and if so, how?


Of course it works. Take 2 hypothetically men equal in all aspects, 1 drives a beat up c***mobile and the other drives a fancy sports car, sports car guy is going to get more women. 

Women tend to value financial security more than men. Whether we like it or not, the sort of car a man drives is something that women typically judge. 

I always get a kick of of men who get offended that women will care about such things, and label them gold diggers, etc. but also want women to understand their need for a physically attractive partner and not call them shallow.


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## john117

Find a woman that digs the classic Alfa below...




















And for the Ferrari fans...


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## Andy1001

uhtred said:


> And that is exactly why it makes more sense to own an airplane than a high end car.
> 
> A 50 year old Baron economy cruises at >200mph, tops out around 240 level (300 in a dive) and you can pull all the 2G turns you want.


Never flew a plane but took the controls of a helicopter once.The car I drive now is a Mercedes station wagon.I don't care about the brand name but it has to have space in the back for a dog or two.


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## giddiot

I wanted the car I have since I was in Jr High and saw the movie Vanishing point. My Challenger is not the most powerful one but if I get after it I get the crap scared out of me and that is enough. I finally got the car I wanted because my wife sold her FJ and bought it for me on Father's Day. Cool wife huh.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

giddiot said:


> I wanted the car I have since I was in Jr High and saw the movie Vanishing point. My Challenger is not the most powerful one but if I get after it I get the crap scared out of me and that is enough. I finally got the car I wanted because my wife sold her FJ and bought it for me on Father's Day. Cool wife huh.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


She's a keeper alright.


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## knightRider

Yep, cars def have an effect on how most women react. I have a small collection of cars and notice the reaction:

1. Drive a Suzuki Swift Sport and no women notice me.
2. Pull up in the M5 and middle age women oggle :surprise:
3. CRV - no one looks
4. Z3 M Coupe everyone looks and I get women beeping at me and waving :nerd:


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## SimplyAmorous

It means absolutely nothing to me.. If I was single.. not being a high class person.. I would just say to myself.. "he makes too much money - out of my league"... so In reality.. the men who are blue collar, not trying to impress are the only ones I'd probably feel comfortable with , or be compatible with.. I am more impressed if they have a nice house & some property over wasting their money on expensive sport cars ...


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## SimplyAmorous

MrsAldi said:


> *Men buy cars for themselves, as far as I'm aware. *
> I'd rather date an average car driving man, than a Ferrari driver now.
> When you date a rich man, you are just another one of his accessories.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


I work for a wealthy man who's always treated me like family.... he's always buying new vehicles, he's got the luxurious sports car, the old redone Studebaker.... it's almost like a Hobby.... we had a chat about this one day yrs back .. he admitted he does this because he knows it attracts the chicks !... His marriage did fall apart after many yrs, he wasn't home much, a workaholic.. It's definitely a part of " keeping up with appearances"... he's in a field where he travels a lot, making deals, probably plays golf, the whole "Country Club" lifestyle (though not sure he has time for that)....

He did add in this conversation, if he was married to me...he'd be a further sight ahead & debt free yrs ago...he's always been impressed with how I manage our family's finances, telling me we are smart for not blowing our money on things like this, I think he gets a chuckle out of *how old* our cars are (he had an uncle like this that would never spend over a few hundred on a vehicle & drove it till it blew up -we're not that bad , ha ha)...

We make a fraction of what he does - with a much larger family...he can see how it's paid off for us to not indulge in "high price tag" wheels though... we own a beautiful piece of property, many acres, we've been debt free since our last son....

We own 4 cars.. our newest is a 2001 CR-V..


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## john117

The car tells a lot about the owner - my Mini says I love quirky, well designed stuff. Not flashy. Not wasteful environment wise. Practical. That I'm youthful and like to play. The S (turbo) and six speed manual tells those in the know that I enjoy driving.


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## Celes

My husband owns 2 BMWs. A 325i and a 540i. But what I find especially hot is how well he takes care of them. He does all the maintenance himself. He buys all the parts and fixes them up, changes his own oil, etc. He spent hours fixing the brake pads on the 540 last weekend. Before that he replaced the window regulator. Something about him getting down and dirty (and greasy) with the cars is just super hot.


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## wild jade

john117 said:


> The car tells a lot about the owner - my Mini says I love quirky, well designed stuff. Not flashy. Not wasteful environment wise. Practical. That I'm youthful and like to play. The S (turbo) and six speed manual tells those in the know that I enjoy driving.


My car says I'm a practical, fuel-efficient, workhorse kind of a gal. My husband's says he's even more fuel-efficient, but he loves a good breeze and the ability to park himself everywhere.


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## UMP

SimplyAmorous said:


> It means absolutely nothing to me.. If I was single.. not being a high class person.. I would just say to myself.. "he makes too much money - out of my league"... so In reality.. the men who are blue collar, not trying to impress are the only ones I'd probably feel comfortable with , or be compatible with.. I am more impressed if they have a nice house & some property over wasting their money on expensive sport cars ...


Why in the world would you say that someone is "out of your league"?
After my divorce I almost purposely looked for someone that had much less that I did. I wanted to be able to give someone the moon.
It's much easier to please someone who has nothing than someone who has everything.

Nobody is "out of your league." Don't ever think like that.:smthumbup:


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## karole

SimplyAmorous said:


> It means absolutely nothing to me.. If I was single.. not being a high class person.. I would just say to myself.. "he makes too much money - out of my league"... so In reality.. the men who are blue collar, not trying to impress are the only ones I'd probably feel comfortable with , or be compatible with.. I am more impressed if they have a nice house & some property over wasting their money on expensive sport cars ...


I know what you mean SA, expensive cars don't mean much to me either. I drive a 2010 Honda Accord. I care more about reliability than anything. I honestly could care less what people think about what I drive. I guess when I was a teenager, I was impressed by the guys that drove sports cars, but even then, I didn't judge the person on what they drove. I prefer to buy cars that I can pay for, so that I don't have car payments. The people that buy $80,000 or $100,000 for a car and then finance it for 6-8 years or more are crazy, in my opinion. I have friends that pay more for car payments than I do for my house! No car is worth that kind of money to me. There are more things I'd rather have than a luxury and/or sports car. But, to each their own, I suppose.


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## SimplyAmorous

UMP said:


> Why in the world would you say that someone is "out of your league"?
> After my divorce I almost purposely looked for someone that had much less that I did. I wanted to be able to give someone the moon.
> It's much easier to please someone who has nothing than someone who has everything.
> 
> Nobody is "out of your league." Don't ever think like that.:smthumbup:


Simply... because I KNOW HOW PEOPLE THINK.. I read these posts every day.. I can always tell who is higher class & who is not, who comes from a more humble means.. 

I am one who feels *it's best* to stay within our own social class.. many family members would frown on a their educated financially wealthy son marrying a woman that is lower class economically.. (personally I think our heart & Intentions are more important over these things, not to mention "compatibility).. but this is just reality... and the vast majority of the time.. these men SHOULD be very careful with that ! 

There is a thread going right now in this section...EVERYONE is warning the woman to not dare marry a younger man with lessor means, less education- over her..... Come on now!


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## UMP

SimplyAmorous said:


> Simply... because I KNOW HOW PEOPLE THINK.. I read these posts every day.. I can always tell who is higher class & who is not, who comes from a more humble means..
> 
> I am one who feels *it's best* to stay within our own social class.. many family members would frown on a their educated financially wealthy son marrying a woman that is lower class economically.. (personally I think our heart & Intentions are more important over these things, not to mention "compatibility).. but this is just reality... and the vast majority of the time.. these men SHOULD be very careful with that !
> 
> There is a thread going right now in this section...EVERYONE is warning the woman to not dare marry a younger man with lessor means, less education- over her..... Come on now!


I am upper middle class and when I started dating my current wife she was lower middle class if not just plain poor. Class in my opinion is in the heart and in the way you act. You can be poor as dirt but still have class.

On the flip side, I have known many VERY rich people who have NO class.

My first wife was a very wealthy Jewish American Princess. I was an upper middle class French Chauvinist Pig. She had never even done laundry before she met me because her live in maid did it. I had never done laundry before I met her because my mother did it.
She left me after 18 months of marriage. 

After her, I was determined to find someone with much less $ than me who had class. Been married to that person I found for 25 years. She keeps me grounded and puts the reigns on my spending. On the other hand she is very thankful that I have the means to take care of our family. She had nothing but debt when I married her, but in reality I won the lottery because she is a much stronger person than I am and makes our family tick like clockwork.


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## SimplyAmorous

karole said:


> I know what you mean SA, expensive cars don't mean much to me either. I drive a 2010 Honda Accord. I care more about reliability than anything. I honestly could care less what people think about what I drive. I guess when I was a teenager, I was impressed by the guys that drove sports cars, but even then, I didn't judge the person on what they drove. I prefer to buy cars that I can pay for, so that I don't have car payments. The people that buy $80,000 or $100,000 for a car and then finance it for 6-8 years or more are crazy, in my opinion. I have friends that pay more for car payments than I do for my house! No car is worth that kind of money to me. There are more things I'd rather have than a luxury and/or sports car. But, to each their own, I suppose.


You are a woman after my own







.. before we bought our CV-R (got one for our oldest son too).. I researched, googled ,spend hours reading reviews, had notes in front of me what was the MOST RELIABLE vehicles.. then I went car shopping on Auto Trader (where we get most of our vehicles)..... those Honda accords are up there.. and Toyota's... the 2002 CR-V was voted the best vehicle ever made.. Buicks are "Grandpa cars" but we don't care... they have 6 seat belts.. something we need for our family...generally very reliable also.. 

Our 3 seater 4x4 Suburbans - couldn't live without them...(we never did the Mini-van thing)...we need the 4x4 for our driveway plus then we can throw a couple extra kids back there too...they may be gas hogs, but at least those 350 engines are so easy to work on & last FOREVER..







... I think the most we ever spent for a vehicle was about $4,500 for one of our suburbans and it had a plow with it....


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## EllisRedding

karole said:


> I know what you mean SA, expensive cars don't mean much to me either. I drive a 2010 Honda Accord. I care more about reliability than anything. I honestly could care less what people think about what I drive. I guess when I was a teenager, I was impressed by the guys that drove sports cars, but even then, I didn't judge the person on what they drove. I prefer to buy cars that I can pay for, so that I don't have car payments. The people that buy $80,000 or $100,000 for a car and then finance it for 6-8 years or more are crazy, in my opinion. I have friends that pay more for car payments than I do for my house! No car is worth that kind of money to me. There are more things I'd rather have than a luxury and/or sports car. But, to each their own, I suppose.


I know quite a few people with the whole "keeping up with the Joneses" complex, driving around in fancy cars yet they are swamped in debt, no savings, etc... I honestly don't put too much stock into what kind of car a person drives b/c IMO it doesn't even begin to tell the real story, and doesn't show how equal or unequal they are to you.


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## Personal

...


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## SimplyAmorous

UMP said:


> I am upper middle class and when I started dating my current wife she was lower middle class if not just plain poor. Class in my opinion is in the heart and in the way you act. You can be poor as dirt but still have class.
> 
> On the flip side, I have know many VERY rich people who have NO class.
> 
> My first wife was a very wealthy Jewish American Princess. I was an upper middle class French Chauvinist Pig. She had never even done laundry before she met me because her live in maid did it. I had never done laundry before I met her because my mother did it.
> She left me after 18 months of marriage.
> 
> *After her, I was determined to find someone with much less $ than me who had class. Been married to that person I found for 25 years. She keeps me grounded and puts the reigns on my spending. On the other hand she is very thankful that I have the means to take care of our family. She had nothing but debt when I married her, but in reality I won the lottery because she is a much stronger person than I am and makes our family tick like clockwork.*


Really I do love & appreciate your post / your story @UMP... you surely had 2 contrasting women/ experiences there !! ... sounds you married well the 2nd time around.. and it was "for Love"... very good for you both..

I know what it means to work hard, get my hands dirty (no princess mentality here)...I married my husband when he worked in a Grocery store.. he moved up to a manager position but still it was a very small store... we didn't have much... but we had faith in each other.... we worked together to achieve all we did, there was a lot of saving & Scrimping, and many home projects in these early years.. but it all panned out.. because of where we came from...we'll always be thankful for "the little things"...

I don't even think if I won the lottery (which I've never cared to play)... I could waste money.. I do not like waste.. it fundamentally bothers me.. it's a huge problem in our world.. it's such a "disposable" society anymore.


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## katiecrna

Of course it does. Your car tells a lot about who you are. We are all drawn and repelled to certain personalities/types of people. For me a hummer, or a crazy sports car is a turn off personally. That to me represents a man who cares too much about his appearance, is materialistic, and loves attention. At the same time a guy with a car that has a bunch of dents/scratches and looks like he's living out of his car... that's a turn off and unless he is a grad student or something it's unacceptable.

People put money in what they value. I want a man to value a reliably car but not value a nice flashy expensive car that looks good. I'd much rather a man value security as in money in the bank preparing for something more important and more meaningful.I get a kick out of people who spend so much money on their car, and they live in a crappy apartment or whatever.


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## UMP

SimplyAmorous said:


> Really I do love & appreciate your post / your story @UMP... you surely had 2 contrasting women/ experiences there !! ... sounds you married well the 2nd time around.. and it was "for Love"... very good for you both..
> 
> I know what it means to work hard, get my hands dirty (no princess mentality here)...I married my husband when he worked in a Grocery store.. he moved up to a manager position but still it was a very small store... we didn't have much... but we had faith in each other.... we worked together to achieve all we did, there was a lot of saving & Scrimping, and many home projects in these early years.. but it all panned out.. because of where we came from...we'll always be thankful for "the little things"...
> 
> I don't even think if I won the lottery (which I've never cared to play)... I could waste money.. I do not like waste.. it fundamentally bothers me.. it's a huge problem in our world.. it's such a "disposable" society anymore.


You sound like my wife. Every once in a while we spend the night at a hotel. I always want to blow money on the presidential suit and she refuses and tells me it's a waste. I love playing the Cinderella story and treat her like a princess every now and again. She refuses. "don't waste the money!" :grin2:

It's all good because if it wasn't for her, we would be broke.


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## katiecrna

MrsHolland said:


> Well for me the answer is yes, the car he drives does matter. My cars on average cost over the $100k range so of course I don't want a man that drives a crappy car. Doesn't mean I think he is a great guy, just means that I want an equal when it come to what they can afford.




Just Bc you CAN afford it doesn't mean you should get it.


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## uhtred

A care tells you something - but often you need to know more to interpret it. A friend of mine used to drive an old Toyota tercel, wore comfortable old clothes. 

He drove a toyota because it was reliable and he didn't care about cars. For fun he flew a stunt-plane, and he owned a biz-jet for traveling. 

A boring old car can mean someone who is either themselves boring or is unable to afford a nice car. OR it can mean someone who doesn't care about cars and gets their fun somewhere else. 

A fancy car can mean someone who is trying to show off and stretching their money to do so, or it can be someone who has so much money that it simply doesn't matter - bought a BMW rather than a Honda with no more thought that someone might put into buying more comfortable / expensive shoes. 





katiecrna said:


> Of course it does. Your car tells a lot about who you are. We are all drawn and repelled to certain personalities/types of people. For me a hummer, or a crazy sports car is a turn off personally. That to me represents a man who cares too much about his appearance, is materialistic, and loves attention. At the same time a guy with a car that has a bunch of dents/scratches and looks like he's living out of his car... that's a turn off and unless he is a grad student or something it's unacceptable.


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## Celes

Personal, I'm not saying a man needs to get a car to get more women. Or that women don't value physical attractiveness either. Simply that, women overall tend to value financial security more than men do, and more often than not a guy with a hot car will attract more women than not. A hot guy with a great personality and no car is still going to score big with women. But I don't think we can honestly say that the car a man drives makes absolutely no difference. I'm speaking in general terms of course.


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## Celes

I also want to add that I've never been interested in men with big flashy sports cars (Ferraris, Porches, Corvettes, etc.). The ones I've met have been douchy (not saying all guys with flashy cars are jerks btw). But I'm not going to pretend that there aren't women throwing themselves at them when they see their car. I've seen it first hand.


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## dubsey

katiecrna said:


> Just Bc you CAN afford it doesn't mean you should get it.


I presume all your clothes come from WalMart then? They'll be reliable and non-flashy.


FTR, I have a few nice cars. I just like cars. It says nothing about me, other than, I truly enjoy driving cars and different types of cars have a different feel in your hands/feet/seat.


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## anchorwatch

SimplyAmorous said:


> not being a high class person...


Nonsense! You're one of the classiest persons on TAM.


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## Personal

...


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## farsidejunky

UMP said:


> Class in my opinion is in the heart and in the way you act. You can be poor as dirt but still have class.
> 
> On the flip side, I have known many VERY rich people who have NO class.


QFT.


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## Personal

...


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## SimplyAmorous

UMP said:


> You sound like my wife. Every once in a while we spend the night at a hotel. I always want to blow money on the presidential suit and she refuses and tells me it's a waste. I love playing the Cinderella story and treat her like a princess every now and again. She refuses. "don't waste the money!" :grin2:
> 
> It's all good because if it wasn't for her, we would be broke.


This is what my husband says of me... "My wife can squeeze a dime out of a nickle".. I'm the one who handles all of our finances.. he's content he doesn't have to mess with it...he's knows I'd be the 1st to jump -taking on another job -if our savings needed built back up.. 

When it comes to vacationing.. this is one area I don't skimp on.. cars I could care less, we just see them more to get from Point A - to Point B ...but a romantic destination.. I'll go ALL OUT... that's LIVING !! 

I always look for those higher end Cabins in the woods, country setting, with a hot tub outside under the trees...(Privacy!)... that's heaven...we stayed in one last week for our 27th anniversary, had a golf cart we could use to ride around in the area, many paths, a lake.. it was the most luxurious cabin we've stayed in as yet...










Just like I shop for used cars on Auto Trader.. I spend time browsing  Trip Advisor  reading reviews, always looking for our next romantic getaway...


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## EllisRedding

dubsey said:


> I presume all your clothes come from WalMart then? They'll be reliable and non-flashy.
> 
> 
> FTR, I have a few nice cars. I just like cars. It says nothing about me, other than, I truly enjoy driving cars and different types of cars have a different feel in your hands/feet/seat.


The way I took @katiecrna post, was just stating that just b/c someone doesn't drive around in a "comparable" car doesn't in any way mean they aren't equal (the quote she replied to seemed to imply that the car the man drove showed that he was in some way an equal financially which seems like a bit of a stretch)


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## Lila

uhtred said:


> Its generally believed, or at least implied in advertising, that frequently men buy cars to impress women. So.... does it work? Does the type of car a man drives change you opinion of him, and if so, how?


I'm not _impressed_ by cars per se but there are certain types that do grab my attention like the Maserati Quattro and Audi A7. Aside from those, I find I'm drawn to Black Full-Size trucks, probably because H has always driven one and I associate it with him. Flashy sports cars may be fun to drive but they do absolutely nothing for me at this time, however H is looking to trade his truck in for a Camaro, so who knows if my opinion will change.


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## dubsey

if that was the way it was intended, I apologize.


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## SimplyAmorous

anchorwatch said:


> Nonsense! You're one of the classiest persons on TAM.










.... in the manner @UMP was trying to convey... I'll agree... I'm not too shabby....but the cars we drive.. it does put a huge fork in anyone thinking we're with the upper class...ya know.. that's not really us, we wouldn't fit... 

I left a post yesterday on @southbound 's blue collar thread how our family rented a Caravan for a vacation this year.. we were like "kids in the candy store", when we realized there were spaces BELOW our feet to put luggage, pulling up the floor ...we were all excited.. how cool was that !!... Chances are, this has been a regular feature on many of these mini-vans, maybe even years now.. but we never seen it..

So yeah. .little things can excite us sometimes.. Obviously it's a great JOY to drive these new cars.. they look good.. they are just too expensive.. Other things take precedence with us.


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## uhtred

We also think vacations are a great place to spend money.





SimplyAmorous said:


> This is what my husband says of me... "My wife can squeeze a dime out of a nickle".. I'm the one who handles all of our finances.. he's content he doesn't have to mess with it...he's knows I'd be the 1st to jump -taking on another job -if our savings needed built back up..
> 
> When it comes to vacationing.. this is one area I don't skimp on.. cars I could care less, we just see them more to get from Point A - to Point B ...but a romantic destination.. I'll go ALL OUT... that's LIVING !!
> 
> I always look for those higher end Cabins in the woods, country setting, with a hot tub outside under the trees...(Privacy!)... that's heaven...we stayed in one last week for our 27th anniversary, had a golf cart we could use to ride around in the area, many paths, a lake.. it was the most luxurious cabin we've stayed in as yet...
> 
> 
> 
> Just like I shop for used cars on Auto Trader.. I spend time browsing  Trip Advisor  reading reviews, always looking for our next romantic getaway...


----------



## WasDecimated

Interesting subject since I'm about to order a new car. 

I always felt the vehicles we drive do project an image to others of who we want others to think we are, but not necessarily who we really are. Some people are just trying to live up the image of the car and not the other way around.

I don’t buy cars to impress women although I do keep the image in mind but only when it comes to my daily driver mostly because I don’t want to project the wrong image. I choose my daily drivers based on my needs. I am raising two children so it has to be functional for them as well. I do drive a luxury vehicle but they are everywhere around here so it’s become the norm. Do women notice my car or formulate an opinion based on it? I have no idea.

I do however own several other vehicles, they all serve different purposes but impressing women is probably not one of them. One of them is a pickup truck that I love but I only use it when I need to tow or haul something. I will always own a pickup of some sort. You can't beat the functionality. I use to do a lot of racing so I have always owned performance cars of some kind but not for everyday driving. One of them is a vintage pro-touring car. It definitely attracts attention but mostly from guys. I don’t think most women would like driving in a car that’s scary fast, loud enough to wake the dead, and smells like racing fuel and burnt rubber.

I would be interested to see if women form an opinion based of the color of a man’s car as well. My daily cars are usually Black. I usually choose this because it is a neutral non-color and looks good on everything. I always liked Black cars just because they look cool, not because I want to project a bad boy image or anything. >

On the other hand, my XWW always drove white cars. I presume to project an image of purity and honesty? :rofl:


----------



## john117

Personal said:


> I want to own an old Citroën DS21, I wonder what that says about me?


Classy!!


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## Herschel

I have always been in the mindset that there is a distinct correlation between expensive car, age and douche bagginess. As age increases the douche baginess level decreases. You have to be like 217 years old to not be a douche bag and drive a Lamborghini. 

This coming from a dude who drives a minivan, so, take it for all it's worth. On a side note, should I dump the minivan with my impending divorce? I don't need it (just 2 kids) and I won't have a house to need to bring big things home from Home Depot), but it has advantages (I Uber on the side sometimes) and it's a built in bed if I ever find someone to sex me in it.


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## Celes

Personal said:


> Yeah, I'm not arguing it doesn't make a difference, even I judge cars as a personality thing rather than a financial thing.
> 
> Funnily enough as it turns out I actually like driving a lot, so whenever my wife and I go somewhere together I'm the one who almost always does all of the driving.
> 
> Over the past six years I've mostly driven our small car or my wife's work package luxury cars.


My husband likes to drive too. He always drives when we go out, even though we usually take my Audi (he likes to avoid adding more mileage to his cars lol). Though he will always complain he can't do the same maneuvers with it lol.

A few weeks ago he had to drive out of town for a wedding rehearsal I couldn't attend because of work. It's a 3 hour drive each way. Rehearsal was on Friday and the wedding was the next day. I told him I would just drive there Saturday, but he insisted on driving there Friday afternoon, attending rehearsal and driving back the same night so he could pick me up and drive us together on Saturday. Then drove back on the way home too. He can't stand being in the passenger's seat. It was sweet of him to do because I honestly can't stand driving, especially long distances.


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## katiecrna

dubsey said:


> I presume all your clothes come from WalMart then? They'll be reliable and non-flashy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FTR, I have a few nice cars. I just like cars. It says nothing about me, other than, I truly enjoy driving cars and different types of cars have a different feel in your hands/feet/seat.




You took what I said wrong. I was responding to the women who said nice cars in a man is important to her because she wants an equal to what she can afford. My point is just because you CAN afford something doesn't mean you should get it. A lot of people can afford a nicer car/house/engagement ring/clothes than what they currently have, doesn't mean they should get it. If cars are important to you then it's worth spending the money. No need to get defensive. My husband is a car man too and has always driven nice cars. I have a old ugly reliable Toyota


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## dubsey

Fair enough. You have my apologies. I was going to edit, but figured better to leave it there as is...

There's nothing wrong with old ugly and reliable. Of my cars, one is an old Ford pickup, not fully restored, with an original inline 6 and 3 on the tree. I love it just as much as the others.


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## 2&out

I vote yes. Being in my mid 50's and "professional", it seems most women interested in me more than a date or 2, in my age area, have some expectation. I have had more than one say why don't you have/drive something normal ? It's not pretty clear that as I don't - I'm not ? LOL. It's my hobby. I work on/maintain them myself. All 7. The most "normal" one I have is a modified 4WD Chevy Blazer. Yes - I'll street race you young dude in my AC Cobra copy. Yes - my XKE has a chevy motor and isn't a pristine trailer queen. And hey - the 56 Chevy resto-mod is pretty darn dependable ! What do my cars say about me ? I don't think environmentally responsible, how "dependable", or money would be spent better elsewhere, is it.  Think my $ is pretty well invested in these cars - as someone else noted. But I have to say, I don't really care what they drive. OK dear - we'll take your Toyota Camry or Honda Civic / Accord. They are great cars. But excuse me if I get sleepy... so bored. And which one is it in the parking lot ?


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## MrsHolland

SimplyAmorous said:


> It means absolutely nothing to me.. If I was single.. not being a high class person.. I would just say to myself.. "he makes too much money - out of my league"... so In reality.. the men who are blue collar, not trying to impress are the only ones I'd probably feel comfortable with , or be compatible with.. I am more impressed if they have a nice house & some property over wasting their money on expensive sport cars ...


Luxury, comfort and high performance are never a waste of money IME. The thrill of being able to take on and beat pretty much any other car at the traffic lights is priceless :grin2:


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## MrsHolland

katiecrna said:


> Just Bc you CAN afford it doesn't mean you should get it.


Why not? I would not buy something I cannot afford, that makes sense but if someone can afford luxury it seems like reverse snobbery to suggest otherwise. No debt here, no credit cards, house paid off, kids get fed and I like luxury cars.


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## katiecrna

MrsHolland said:


> Why not? I would not buy something I cannot afford, that makes sense but if someone can afford luxury it seems like reverse snobbery to suggest otherwise. No debt here, no credit cards, house paid off, kids get fed and I like luxury cars.




For the simple fact that If you buy everything that you can afford that means you won't have any money in the bank. All your money should not be in things. 

Also what does can afford mean? My definition of can afford is I have enough money to pay for it. Period. If you buy a Ferrari in cash but that leaves you with $1k in your savings account IMO just Bc you could afford that Ferrari doesn't mean you should of bought it. 

This is all very personal. How much money do you need to save up and secure before purchasing a luxury item. Does your debt need to be paid off first? These are all personal opinions. But also that's the problem with America, we have nothing in savings, and people my age (30) most are not even thinking about saving for retirement or Investing. People are more worried about looking like they have money in the now than actually buckling down and securing a good security for their future. For the record, my husband and I heavily invest now For our future. Work hard now so when we're older we don't have too. 

And I know I'm on a rant but one more thing... I agree with the above person who said there is a relationship between having nice things and your age and how much of a douch bag you are. I am of the old school belief that when ur young you shouldn't have luxury items. You work your ass off, and you take care of your family, your debt, and you secure yourself finically then with experience and time you can buy luxury items. IMO that should be priority, and you will enjoy more when you get those items.


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## 2&out

Save money for what ? If you are basically financially somewhat secure - i.e retirement, why ? To give to someone else ? The rest home ? No thanx. He who dies with the most toys - wins.  The kids / relatives can sell them off if they want.


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## john117

2&out said:


> Save money for what ? If you are basically financially somewhat secure - i.e retirement, why ? To give to someone else ? The rest home ? No thanx. He who dies with the most toys - wins.  The kids / relatives can sell them off if they want.


I better ask DD2 what color Maserati Quatroporte she wants for her inheritance instead of paid off medical school . Deep blue is the popular color but white or silver are also nice.


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## uhtred

"Can afford" is of course a relative term. I could spend my net worth on a car and technically could "afford" it, but doing so would be really stupid.

OTOH, if a particular car is inexpensive enough relative to my income that I won't notice the difference in anything else, there is no reason not to get it even if it is not the cheapest solution.

Bill Gates can buy a ferarri and never notice the cost. In fact it would be really stupid for him to not buy whatever car he happens to want. For other people anything more than a functional 10-year old econobox is an extravagance. 


I think about it as $/hour for fun. A typical car lasts say 100,000 miles before I sell it. That's about 3000 hours of driving. If I spend an extra $30K for a car that I enjoy driving, that is $10/hour. How does that compare to other things I spend money doing (eating out, watching movies, vacations, etc).


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## MrsHolland

katiecrna said:


> For the simple fact that If you buy everything that you can afford that means you won't have any money in the bank. All your money should not be in things.
> 
> Also what does can afford mean? My definition of can afford is I have enough money to pay for it. Period. If you buy a Ferrari in cash but that leaves you with $1k in your savings account IMO just Bc you could afford that Ferrari doesn't mean you should of bought it.
> 
> This is all very personal. How much money do you need to save up and secure before purchasing a luxury item. Does your debt need to be paid off first? These are all personal opinions. But also that's the problem with America, we have nothing in savings, and people my age (30) most are not even thinking about saving for retirement or Investing. People are more worried about looking like they have money in the now than actually buckling down and securing a good security for their future. For the record, my husband and I heavily invest now For our future. Work hard now so when we're older we don't have too.
> 
> And I know I'm on a rant but one more thing... I agree with the above person who said there is a relationship between having nice things and your age and how much of a douch bag you are. I am of the old school belief that when ur young you shouldn't have luxury items. You work your ass off, and you take care of your family, your debt, and you secure yourself finically then with experience and time you can buy luxury items. IMO that should be priority, and you will enjoy more when you get those items.


It would be nice if you can clarify if you are talking specifically or generally. You quoted and replied to my post about my life then went on with a diatribe about things that are not relevant to my situation. You then went on about how you and your husband are investing heavily for your future, well guess what? I did too and now I am living the lifestyle that comes from that. I don't buy everything I can afford as I don't have a need or desire for over consumption (and my kids are raised this way).

Simple answer is that I can afford to pay for everything I own, no debt, kids being extremely well educated and fed. Our home is worth 7 figures with no debt on my side and a little bit on his. I have been very fortunate to have been born into a wealth family but I have also work extremely hard and invested wisely. I know wrong from right, have good morals and am an excellent parent that is raising very well rounded kids. We contribute far less to the degredation of the Earth than most people via efficient cars, eco house, solar etc. We even grow our own veggies, chooks etc.

Seems reverse snobbery is still alive. Actually I find wealthy people are judged more than poor people. There is an assumption that wealthy people are lazy, can't make intelligent buying decisions etc. It just is not true IME.


----------



## uhtred

Reverse snobbery / envy does exist. No way to quantify how common. 

The poor often view the wealthy as lazy and stupid because the wealthy make different decisions than the poor would. Is it stupid of me to shop at a more expensive food store because its closer and the lines are shorter? It depends on how I value my time in $/hour, and a wealthy person will naturally put a higher dollar value on time. 

Wealthy people are often perceived as lazy because they tend to do less physical work. Having done both, I find physical work a LOT less stressful than other work. For the same pay I'd prefer to spend an hour digging ditches rather than working out next year's budget. (of course as I get older and less healthy that could easily change).

If a poor person sees a wealthy person in a BMW, they may think "what a stuck-up snob". They might be right, or the cost might simply not be an issue for the wealthy person and they just bought what they wanted.




MrsHolland said:


> snip
> Seems reverse snobbery is still alive. Actually I find wealthy people are judged more than poor people. There is an assumption that wealthy people are lazy, can't make intelligent buying decisions etc. It just is not true IME.


----------



## john117

In Australia, maybe. In the USA... I'm not so sure. 

My six and very low seven figure neighborhood is 90% professional types. Work hard? Epic lolz. My cat works harder. Work smart? Good one. About half are doctors or lawyers or upper management. Home at 5, nanny for the SAHM, the works.

Few understand cars. Or design. Or complicated technical work. One of my neighbors owns a small factory that packages artificial sweeteners. Another works in a company that makes the little plastic disks that seal plastic bottles . Hard work? 

Let's see hard work when it's January in Las Vegas, the annual consumer electronics industry show is on, and your gadget is pawed by thousands, including execs from your customers. The mofo has to work, you spend 16 hours a day thru the holidays... 

That, folks, is hard work. To do sh!t that hasn't been done before, on a shoestring budget, work flawlessly, and MAYBE we'll get a customer.

My neighbors don't deal with such things.


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## SimplyAmorous

MrsHolland said:


> Luxury, comfort and high performance are never a waste of money IME. The thrill of being able to take on and beat pretty much any other car at the traffic lights is priceless :grin2:


I think our Suburbans could do that plenty...I can be somewhat of a lead foot -which my husband hates...there is a ton of power there.. 

It's Great for those who can afford luxury... and it's sounds a drop in the bucket for you too.... it's pretty much because of posts like yours that makes me feel someone who drives older stuff would be looked down upon....we're just not in a similar income bracket -in any way... I understand that.. and respect it... 

It's pretty much a blessing that fancy cars is not something I ever cared about in life.. there are many things I DO want.. that I would envy even.. this just isn't one of those..

In our situation..it would be terribly and I do mean terribly wasteful and irresponsible to blow our money on luxury cars... with our older vehicles, we've never had to pay for collision insurance, we just get liability (and crossing fingers here.. we haven't had a claim in our driving history - that we caused)... there is some savings there .... husband is a pretty good mechanic.. tremendous amount of savings here.... it just works for us..and allows us to afford more important things, like feeding our kids.. or being able to buy them another car so they can drive to college saving on living on campus (x 2)...


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## Andy1001

2&out said:


> Save money for what ? If you are basically financially somewhat secure - i.e retirement, why ? To give to someone else ? The rest home ? No thanx. He who dies with the most toys - wins.  The kids / relatives can sell them off if they want.


The guy who loaned me the Bugatti Veyron was forty one years old when He died from cancer.Do you think he would have preferred to drive a one thousand horsepower car or leave the money in the bank.


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## giddiot

Andy1001 said:


> The guy who loaned me the Bugatti Veyron was forty one years old when He died from cancer.Do you think he would have preferred to drive a one thousand horsepower car or leave the money in the bank.


I would rather have driven a Koenigsegg Regera hyper-hybrid with 1,500-hp and transmission-less. Slightly less top speed (255) but I bet it gets there faster.


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## katiecrna

I agree. I think there is more judgment from non wealthy people to wealthy people. There seems to be a them and us attitude on both sides, this big divide.

I think one of them problems is wealthy people make non wealthy people feel bad and not good enough, and non wealthy people make wealthy people feel bad and guilty for being successful. Of course it's all subtle.


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## Marc878

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48777&stc=1&d=1475932842

After 5 speeding tickets I have begrudgingly learned to use the cruise control.


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## Andy1001

This was the killer part when I got to drive the Bugatti.
No speed limit on the Autobahn but everyone doing sixty or less I literally couldn't pass anyone it was so frustrating.I would never buy one though,the maintenance alone is crazy.Twenty thousand euro for a service,tyres could only be changed in France and cost six thousand each.He used to get the car trailered for any maintenance work as it was cheaper than driving it.


----------



## Andy1001

katiecrna said:


> I agree. I think there is more judgment from non wealthy people to wealthy people. There seems to be a them and us attitude on both sides, this big divide.
> 
> I think one of them problems is wealthy people make non wealthy people feel bad and not good enough, and non wealthy people make wealthy people feel bad and guilty for being successful. Of course it's all subtle.


When I was growing up my parents were wealthy and always drove top of the range cars.I started an apprenticeship when I was sixteen and my dad paid my rent for one year,after that I was on my own.I could just about afford a two seater van with over two hundred thousand miles on it.Halfway through my apprenticeship I discovered I had a talent for something else and I got offered a job with ten times the salary I was on.I now own my own company and can drive what I want.You shouldn't make general assumptions about people because of their cars,some of these people were working hundred hour weeks as I was to get where they are.


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## Andy1001

giddiot said:


> I would rather have driven a Koenigsegg Regera hyper-hybrid with 1,500-hp and transmission-less. Slightly less top speed (255) but I bet it gets there faster.


I think he would prefer to be driving anything rather than where he is parked.permanently.


----------



## katiecrna

Andy1001 said:


> When I was growing up my parents were wealthy and always drove top of the range cars.I started an apprenticeship when I was sixteen and my dad paid my rent for one year,after that I was on my own.I could just about afford a two seater van with over two hundred thousand miles on it.Halfway through my apprenticeship I discovered I had a talent for something else and I got offered a job with ten times the salary I was on.I now own my own company and can drive what I want.You shouldn't make general assumptions about people because of their cars,some of these people were working hundred hour weeks as I was to get where they are.




That was the point I was trying to make with my posts. There is a difference between driving a crappy beat up car when ur a student, or in the phase of your life when your working on your career compared to being in your career for years and driving a crappy beat up car. 

And I do think that small assumptions can be made off what car you drive (at times) and I'm sorry if that offends people. Take a random 50 year old man and see him driving/owning a Ferrari... a minivan...an electric car... a pick up truck...a smart car...a motorcycle...a beat up dented 10+ old station wagon. I'm sorry but those cars reflect something about who you are. 

People choose cars that support their lifestyle. Cars are just like clothes, they CAN represent who you are. People who pick 2 seater sports cars, are different than those who pick a minivan. People who buy large gas guzzling SUVs are different than those that buy all electric cars. People that buy muscle cars are different than those that buy 
A Prius. 

A lot of people buy mid tear, non distinguishing cars are different and you can't make assumptions about them. But a lot of people buy a car just like their clothes... Bc it reflects their personality and lifestyle. 

I think a problem with this thread is also what is a nice car is a complete personal opinion. When I was talking about not Being attracted to people with crazy sports cars I was referring to a Bugatti, Ferrari, lambo ect. Not a mid tear BMW, Mercedes or whatever. I'm talking about the extreme sports cars, and that's just my personal opinion.

Oh and btw there are many articles that support my claim.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

katiecrna said:


> I agree. I think there is more judgment from non wealthy people to wealthy people. There seems to be a them and us attitude on both sides, this big divide.
> 
> I think one of them problems is wealthy people make non wealthy people feel bad and not good enough, and non wealthy people make wealthy people feel bad and guilty for being successful. Of course it's all subtle.


But we're really NOT good enough.. this is the truth of the matter.. what would I even have to talk about with a very wealthy person who takes great pride in their Lamborghini .. one of the things I am proud about in my life is that I am frugal ...How boring is that [email protected]# ...but please don't take that away from me.. it's part of who I am..

Someone mentioned earlier how a car with some dings would be unacceptable.. that older car we had that lasted 10 years... we taught (3) sons to drive on that car.. we painted it 3 times... it had some DINGS.. but why would we get rid of it when it ran Great... it was reliable, it had that Iron Duke engine in it... to us, that would be foolish.. sure we could have spent extra hours fixing every little ding (what to impress someone else.. then have the next son have a little fender bender - thankfully they've all been minor).. 

Just saying.. I understand for those who take great pride in how their vehicles look, shiny, brand new, of a certain sports persona in addition....in comparison, ours would certainly be something to frown upon.. 

This was our last paint job.. we all worked on this together.. sanding, puttying, masking, kids too..(memories !)....we can laugh about it now....but on a whim we picked up Blue Rustoleum at Walmart ....he kept asking me when he was stirring the paint... "you sure you don't want some white in here?".. to fix the color... I kept saying.. "Oh it will be good!"... but really... it was *TOO BLUE*.... a little embarrassing driving this around town .... once husband was going down the road and some man gave him a thumbs up & a big grin .... (we started to call it our "Smurf mobile").... another lady in a store stopped him to ask about the car .. she loved the color...it caught some attention...God bless our teen sons.. they still held their head high...



I think what I admire in people is being responsible and being kind.. I want to feel accepted for my/our choices too, even a silly adventure like above.. could I really laugh with a higher class person over this.. I don't [email protected]# ... I can respect your choices to buy high end vehicles if that makes you happy...obviously we all value different things in life.. would I personally be compatible with someone like this.. probably not... and if they wanted these things & didn't have the money, buying on credit.. I'd want to KILL THEM!

I really wouldn't want my husband working 100 hrs a week -because he had a need for more high end Toys...that this fulfilled him somehow... I feel something like that would have taken an awful toll on our marriage...it would be fantastic to make great money & not be a workaholic though & easily afford these things.. of course !! 

For us.. it was more about having a family.. and just "making it"...


----------



## ReformedHubby

katiecrna said:


> I agree. *I think there is more judgment from non wealthy people to wealthy people. There seems to be a them and us attitude on both sides, this big divide.*
> 
> I think one of them problems is wealthy people make non wealthy people feel bad and not good enough, and non wealthy people make wealthy people feel bad and guilty for being successful. Of course it's all subtle.


I completely agree with this except I don't think its subtle. I have been both lower middle class and also what many would consider "rich". I have always been the same person, but....I have noticed that I have lost some friends along the way. I didn't change, but their attitude towards me changed. Its honestly been a bizarre journey, and something I was very unprepared for, and at times it has been hurtful. I didn't do what I did to make people feel bad about themselves. But for many that were close to me, that is what happened.


----------



## Andy1001

SimplyAmorous said:


> But we're really NOT good enough.. this is the truth of the matter.. what would I even have to talk about with a very wealthy person who takes great pride in their Lamborghini .. one of the things I am proud about in my life is that I am frugal ...How boring is that [email protected]# ...but please don't take that away from me.. it's part of who I am..
> 
> Someone mentioned earlier how a car with some dings would be unacceptable.. that older car we had that lasted 10 years... we taught (3) sons to drive on that car.. we painted it 3 times... it had some DINGS.. but why would we get rid of it when it ran Great... it was reliable, it had that Iron Duke engine in it... to us, that would be foolish.. sure we could have spent extra hours fixing every little ding (what to impress someone else.. then have the next son have a little fender bender - thankfully they've all been minor)..
> 
> Just saying.. I understand for those who take great pride in how their vehicles look, shiny, brand new, of a certain sports persona in addition....in comparison, ours would certainly be something to frown upon..
> 
> This was our last paint job.. we all worked on this together.. sanding, puttying, masking, kids too..(memories !)....we can laugh about it now....but on a whim we picked up Blue Rustoleum at Walmart ....he kept asking me when he was stirring the paint... "you sure you don't want some white in here?".. to fix the color... I kept saying.. "Oh it will be good!"... but really... it was *TOO BLUE*.... a little embarrassing driving this around town .... once husband was going down the road and some man gave him a thumbs up & a big grin .... (we started to call it our "Smurf mobile").... another lady in a store stopped him to ask about the car .. she loved the color...it caught some attention...God bless our teen sons.. they still held their head high...
> 
> 
> 
> I think what I admire in people is being responsible and being kind.. I want to feel accepted for my/our choices too, even a silly adventure like above.. could I really laugh with a higher class person over this.. I don't [email protected]# ... I can respect your choices to buy high end vehicles if that makes you happy...obviously we all value different things in life.. would I personally be compatible with someone like this.. probably not... and if they wanted these things & didn't have the money, buying on credit.. I'd want to KILL THEM!
> 
> I really wouldn't want my husband working 100 hrs a week -because he had a need for more high end Toys...that this fulfilled him somehow... I feel something like that would have taken an awful toll on our marriage...it would be fantastic to make great money & not be a workaholic though & easily afford these things.. of course !!
> 
> For us.. it was more about having a family.. and just "making it"...


I've read plenty of your post a on tam and I think you would be a very interesting person to talk to,you have a great relationship with your husband and your children so don't sell yourself short and don't let anyone else do it either.
I worked long hours to get a business up and running that I now spend less than twenty hours a week on and even that will soon be less.I have drove the super cars but they spend more time in the shop than on the road.My current car is a merc station wagon and I drive it for comfort and space for a dog in the back.
By the way the time you spend with your kids on the "smurf mobile" will be time you talk about with your grandkids.
ps: The colour sucks though.lol.


----------



## katiecrna

ReformedHubby said:


> I completely agree with this except I don't think its subtle. I have been both lower middle class and also what many would consider "rich". I have always been the same person, but....I have noticed that I have lost some friends along the way. I didn't change, but their attitude towards me changed. Its honestly been a bizarre journey, and something I was very unprepared for, and at times it has been hurtful. I didn't do what I did to make people feel bad about themselves. But for many that were close to me, that is what happened.




Exactly. It truly is sad. And I think that's why people divide and hang out with people in their own tax bracket because both the wealthy and non-wealthy end up feeling bad/guilty/not good enough if they interact with each other. 

Does money change people? Yes of course it can but it doesn't always. But having money changes people's perception of you for sure.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Andy1001 said:


> I've read plenty of your post a on tam and I think you would be a very interesting person to talk to,you have a great relationship with your husband and your children so don't sell yourself short and don't let anyone else do it either.
> I worked long hours to get a business up and running that I now spend less than twenty hours a week on and even that will soon be less.I have drove the super cars but they spend more time in the shop than on the road.My current car is a merc station wagon and I drive it for comfort and space for a dog in the back.
> By the way the time you spend with your kids on the "smurf mobile" will be time you talk about with your grandkids.
> ps: The colour sucks though.lol.


 Is this true.. that the Super cars , besides costing an arm & a leg, also need more Time in the shop... that is completely outrageous - if so.. 

I don't think I am too hard on myself.. it's true...People DO judge others on what they drive (at least initially)...just as we do on how someone dresses.... 

@katiecrna laid that out pretty nicely in post # 129. 

Honesty @Andy1001 ...I genuinely LIKE myself.. I feel I have a lot to offer.. I have been around successful men & women on occasion who have enjoyed talking to me.. I can surely hold my own... did they see the smurf mobile out back... No.. and maybe that's a good thing....ha ha 

Sounds your Business has taken off ...only going by what we've heard & seen, one thing we've always said is we'd NEVER want to do that ! .. not that we personally had any aspirations.... many just don't make it, then end up bankrupt ... We have friends who own their own plumbing business... Health care insurance is outrageous ...it used to be hundreds a month just for one of them...I don't know if this has changed under that Obamacare... I hear some has deductibles well over $10,000 ... glad we never had to look into any of this.


----------



## Andy1001

SimplyAmorous said:


> Is this true.. that the Super cars , besides costing an arm & a leg, also need more Time in the shop... that is completely outrageous - if so..
> 
> I don't think I am too hard on myself.. it's true...People DO judge others on what they drive (at least initially)...just as we do on how someone dresses....
> 
> @katiecrna laid that out pretty nicely in post # 129.
> 
> Honesty @Andy1001 ...I genuinely LIKE myself.. I feel I have a lot to offer.. I have been around successful men & women on occasion who have enjoyed talking to me.. I can surely hold my own... did they see the smurf mobile out back... No.. and maybe that's a good thing....ha ha
> 
> Sounds your Business has taken off ...only going by what we've heard & seen, one thing we've always said is we'd NEVER want to do that ! .. not that we personally had any aspirations.... many just don't make it, then end up bankrupt ... We have friends who own their own plumbing business... Health care insurance is outrageous ...it used to be hundreds a month just for one of them...I don't know if this has changed under that Obamacare... I hear some has deductibles well over $10,000 ... glad we never had to look into any of this.


The Bugatti I was talking about gets an average of about six thousand miles on tyres if you drive carefully,at top speed maybe 100 miles.
Im not joking.
Tyres cost about six grand each and every three times they are changed Michelin (Who are the only company licensed by Bugatti to make the tyres)insist on the wheels being changed as well.Thats seventy grand please.
The new model is just under Two and a half million dollars so I'm sure you will want one for you and one for your husband.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Andy1001 said:


> The Bugatti I was talking about gets an average of about six thousand miles on tyres if you drive carefully,at top speed maybe 100 miles.
> Im not joking.
> Tyres cost about six grand each and every three times they are changed Michelin (Who are the only company licensed by Bugatti to make the tyres)insist on the wheels being changed as well.Thats seventy grand please.
> The new model is just under Two and a half million dollars so I'm sure you will want one for you and one for your husband.


You don't even want to know what I think of this.. I'll shut my mouth... I have no idea what a Bugatti even is or what it looks like.. I am completely clueless when it comes to high end sports models / high end anything really... 



ReformedHubby said:


> I completely agree with this except I don't think its subtle. I have been both lower middle class and also what many would consider "rich". I have always been the same person, but....I have noticed that I have lost some friends along the way. I didn't change, but their attitude towards me changed. Its honestly been a bizarre journey, and something I was very unprepared for, and at times it has been hurtful. I didn't do what I did to make people feel bad about themselves. But for many that were close to me, that is what happened.


Even without living it.. I can see how this happens.. you got a better Job.. maybe making $50,000 more.. maybe some of your friends were former co-workers.. but now you have moved on to new co-workers.. important people...your social circle changed...maybe you started traveling even.. maybe your old friends felt you were too busy, more pressed for time in a higher more demanding position (that would make sense right?) 

Maybe they seen Facebook posts of expensive vacations, plane trips, something that was just a luxury to them, but it was common place for you/ your family.. or saw the new sports car in the driveway... a little envy arose in them... sure it can make some of us feel like.... "WOW.. I took a trip to this cabin over here - we had fun fishing on the lake"..... compared to your going on a Hawaiian cruise with your kids ..... 

Now granted.. I haven't been personally put in these shoes.. in our case...most of our friends make less than we do... or similar...they speak how they don't have the money to do this or that, sometimes I offer to take their kids with us on a trip..we cover them in full (happy to do it).... but still in these ways .... I find I have to be careful to not to go on about some of these things.. it would make them feel bad!

Though thinking about this ....ALL of them have newer nicer cars over us ! - so that's why WE can afford the vacations.. here they are making multiple car payments ...


----------



## ReformedHubby

SimplyAmorous said:


> Maybe they seen Facebook posts of expensive vacations, plane trips, something that was just a luxury to them, but it was common place for you/ your family.. or saw the new sports car in the driveway... a little envy arose in them... sure it can make some of us feel like.... "WOW.. I took a trip to this cabin over here - we had fun fishing on the lake"..... compared to your going on a Hawaiian cruise with your kids .....


Yeah.....facebook is a huuuuuge part of this. My wife literally documents everything, and to be honest it doesn't help. One of my closest friends told me that he felt like his wife's constant comparison of our differing lifestyles led to his divorce. That was hard to take. I think the worst thing is that all of my friends were doing much better than me years ago. They had better houses and cars, and to be honest my wife was a little envious. When I first started my business, I had a rusted out car with duct tape on the mirrors for years. A Disney vacation was a pipe dream for my family. The best I could do was a trip to movies. Even my wife's family thought she had married a loser because they were well to do. But over time I guess my ship came in. I think the thing that hurts the most is I was happy for my friends when they had more than me, but when things changed not all of them were happy for me. Yeah...this thread is depressing me


----------



## SimplyAmorous

>


 when my husband sees these on the road..... he says it's "buying your coffin"... 

Just too small... Literally in the last month alone (last night even- and I'm getting sick of it- like :wtf: I starting swearing out loud)...I've had 3 vehicles veering out of their lane heading towards me.. am I supposed to die soon... I'm starting to wonder...

Too many people on their dang cell phones, not paying attention.. all 3 times they caught themselves IN TIME -while thankfully I was alert to swing closer to the brim of my side ... 

Even if they did hit me.. they'd probably mess themselves up more than me in a big Suburban....we feel the gas hogging may be worth it in the long run.. once a small car wrecked into us, kid on drugs - plowed through a stop sign.. he totaled his car.. our Suburban took it like a tank, we had 9 people in it at the time too..


----------



## john117

If you have it, show it... Pic in Italy courtesy of DD1...


----------



## southbound

I have often said that I don’t care about people’s stuff; I’m not impressed either way. I realize that the reason for that is that I am looking for who the person is as a whole; what people have or don’t have only speaks to part of who they are.

If someone drives an expensive sports car or a beat-up pick-up truck that’s 20 years old, that doesn’t mean much to me. While what a person owns may reflect something about their financial status, it doesn’t speak to who the person is as a total package, and since that is what I’m looking for in a person, their “stuff” really doesn’t mean much to me. I know that sounds cliché, but it is true. Both poor and rich can be butt holes, and both poor and rich can be great, moral people, and that is the part I look for.

If a person 50 years old is driving an expensive car and has a nice house, that probably speaks to the fact that he is financially successful to most people, and if that is the most important thing to a person, it ends there, but one doesn’t know what he had to do to get there or what his character is like. One doesn’t know if he cheats on his wife, if he has made some shady deals to get where he is, if he barely knows his kids because he worked 100 hours a week; a fancy car doesn’t speak to all that.

On the other hand, just because someone’s lifestyle seems modest, that doesn’t mean they are the epitome of honesty and all that is great. 

All sides, poor, rich, and middle class have done things that created a stereotype for their class. There are rich people who have their nose so high in the air toward lesser class people that they would drown in a heavy dew. There are also poor people who turn their nose up at rich people.

For me, I am not impressed with stuff or the lack of stuff. It’s about the person for me. My daughter is a beautiful young girl who is going to college. If I had to pick something to be satisfied about, I would rather she married the manager of McDonald’s if that’s who she was really in love with, and he was a decent man as opposed to someone rich who can give her what she wanted but is a slime ball in other areas. 

If people have the money and they truly enjoy stuff they buy, that's fine, but if people are doing a lot of it just to impress other people, that seems like a waste of time to me.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

ReformedHubby said:


> Yeah.....facebook is a huuuuuge part of this. My wife literally documents everything, and to be honest it doesn't help. One of my closest friends told me that he felt like his wife's constant comparison of our differing lifestyles led to his divorce. That was hard to take. I think the worst thing is that all of my friends were doing much better than me years ago. They had better houses and cars, and to be honest my wife was a little envious. When I first started my business, I had a rusted out car with duct tape on the mirrors for years. A Disney vacation was a pipe dream for my family. The best I could do was a trip to movies. Even my wife's family thought she had married a loser because they were well to do. But over time I guess my ship came in. I think the thing that hurts the most is I was happy for my friends when they had more than me, but when things changed not all of them were happy for me. Yeah...this thread is depressing me


WOW.. that's quite a loaded comment your friend laid in your lap.. that's a shame.. Facebook is tough.. *It seems to set us up TO COMPARE*... I like to offer vacation pictures like anyone else... I like to offer Anniversary posts (once a year is not too bad).. but sometimes it's too much.. we have a guy friend who lost his wife months ago to cancer.. same age as us.. graduated with my husband, high school sweethearts, almost as many kids.. I purposely didn't do an Anniversary post this year -just because he'd see it.. and who wants to read this sh** after a severe loss.. I was thinking of him.. 

I can see why many hate Facebook..

It's funny.. we got new neighbors a few yrs back.. she looks like a Dallas cheerleader, him the Captain of a football team.. BOTH HOT ! they buy a house down from us.. it's Newly built, costs a pretty penny.. I showed my husband their picture one day (have 3 sons too).. he looks... the 1st thing that comes out of his mouth is.. "They are too good for us" after he mentions seeing him driving a 4x4 Cadillac.. plus she has like 4,000 FB friends ...

And mind you.. my husband is NOT an envious or jealous man.. that comment is purely coming from his SPECULATION that THEY would think this way about us (probably back to our cars again).... not long after.. we went to a party there.. her whole family treated us like they knew us forever.. we felt right at home.. laughing , carrying on... they were very Open warm nice people.. our boys are good friends now.. so my husband was "all wet" really... and that's good !!


----------



## Andy1001

SimplyAmorous said:


> WOW.. that's quite a loaded comment your friend laid in your lap.. that's a shame.. Facebook is tough.. *It seems to set us up TO COMPARE*... I like to offer vacation pictures like anyone else... I like to offer Anniversary posts (once a year is not too bad).. but sometimes it's too much.. we have a guy friend who lost his wife months ago to cancer.. same age as us.. graduated with my husband, high school sweethearts, almost as many kids.. I purposely didn't do an Anniversary post this year -just because he'd see it.. and who wants to read this sh** after a severe loss.. I was thinking of him..
> 
> I can see why many hate Facebook..
> 
> It's funny.. we got new neighbors a few yrs back.. she looks like a Dallas cheerleader, him the Captain of a football team.. BOTH HOT ! they buy a house down from us.. it's Newly built, costs a pretty penny.. I showed my husband their picture one day (have 3 sons too).. he looks... the 1st thing that comes out of his mouth is.. "They are too good for us" after he mentions seeing him driving a 4x4 Cadillac.. plus she has like 4,000 FB friends ...
> 
> And mind you.. my husband is NOT an envious or jealous man.. that comment is purely coming from his SPECULATION that THEY would think this way about us (probably back to our cars again).... not long after.. we went to a party there.. her whole family treated us like they knew us forever.. we felt right at home.. laughing , carrying on... they were very Open warm nice people.. our boys are good friends now.. so my husband was "all wet" really... and that's good !!


I find if people have had to work to be successful then they are normally ok.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> I have often said that I don’t care about people’s stuff; I’m not impressed either way. I realize that the reason for that is that* I am looking for who the person is as a whole; what people have or don’t have only speaks to part of who they are.*
> 
> If someone drives an expensive sports car or a beat-up pick-up truck that’s 20 years old, that doesn’t mean much to me. * While what a person owns may reflect something about their financial status, it doesn’t speak to who the person is as a total package, and since that is what I’m looking for in a person, their “stuff” really doesn’t mean much to me. I know that sounds cliché, but it is true. Both poor and rich can be butt holes, and both poor and rich can be great, moral people, and that is the part I look for.*
> 
> If a person 50 years old is driving an expensive car and has a nice house, that probably speaks to the fact that he is financially successful to most people, and if that is the most important thing to a person, it ends there, *but one doesn’t know what he had to do to get there or what his character is like. One doesn’t know if he cheats on his wife, if he has made some shady deals to get where he is, if he barely knows his kids because he worked 100 hours a week; a fancy car doesn’t speak to all that.*
> 
> On the other hand, just because someone’s lifestyle seems modest, that doesn’t mean they are the epitome of honesty and all that is great.
> 
> All sides, poor, rich, and middle class have done things that created a stereotype for their class. There are rich people who have their nose so high in the air toward lesser class people that they would drown in a heavy dew. *There are also poor people who turn their nose up at rich people.*


 or want to see what they can Get out of them.. I once befriended a couple down the road, newly renting because our daughter wanted to play with their daughter. I like to meet the family.. before I allow her to go to someones house... well that family was very poor.. but also some very unsavory things came with it.. I invited them to our house to get to know them better.. soon I realized just what they were made of.. talking about suing others... (I want nothing to do with Sue happy people!)...not disciplining their brat son at my house.. meanwhile he had a shunt in his head, some medical issues, they thought nothing of letting him jump on my trampoline sky high.... I was horrified & had to step in to stop him..

Then wanting me to babysit for them.. I mean.. PUSHY ..... they made comments how it must be nice to live there.... I think I went a little too far in letting her know I wouldn't be babysitting her son... to the point she probably hated me after this.. but I still allowed her daughter to come play at our house.. I wouldn't however, allow my daughter to play at theirs.... I was not at all comfortable.. not long after.. they moved.. they couldn't pay their rent.. but they sure were smoking endless packs of cigarettes I'll tell you.. . 



> *For me, I am not impressed with stuff or the lack of stuff. It’s about the person for me. *My daughter is a beautiful young girl who is going to college. If I had to pick something to be satisfied about, I would rather she married the manager of McDonald’s if that’s who she was really in love with, and he was a decent man as opposed to someone rich who can give her what she wanted but is a slime ball in other areas.
> 
> If people have the money and they truly enjoy stuff they buy, that's fine, but if people are doing a lot of it just to impress other people, that seems like a waste of time to me.


I love love love this post...







...it gets to the







of how I feel also ... of course the best scenario would be.. 

"Small town good hearted boy goes to college, does well.. lands great job and marries @southbound 's daughter"..


----------



## MrsHolland

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think our Suburbans could do that plenty...I can be somewhat of a lead foot -which my husband hates...there is a ton of power there..
> 
> It's Great for those who can afford luxury... and it's sounds a drop in the bucket for you too.... *it's pretty much because of posts like yours that makes me feel someone who drives older stuff would be looked down upon....we're just not in a similar income bracket -in any way... I understand that.. and respect it...
> *
> It's pretty much a blessing that fancy cars is not something I ever cared about in life.. there are many things I DO want.. that I would envy even.. this just isn't one of those..
> 
> In our situation..it would be terribly and I do mean terribly wasteful and irresponsible to blow our money on luxury cars... with our older vehicles, we've never had to pay for collision insurance, we just get liability (and crossing fingers here.. we haven't had a claim in our driving history - that we caused)... there is some savings there .... husband is a pretty good mechanic.. tremendous amount of savings here.... it just works for us..and allows us to afford more important things, like feeding our kids.. or being able to buy them another car so they can drive to college saving on living on campus (x 2)...


That is a seriously judgemental thing to say SA and once again you have put words in my mouth which I do not appreciate. When have I ever said I look down on people with older cars, less money? I don't care who has what, it simply has no bearing on how I feel about people, money or no money if they are a good, decent person then we are in the same league. I have friends that have truck loads more money than we do, friends that are struggling financially I love them all, zero judgement.


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## giddiot

I just saw a Mclaren 570 across the light from me in my Challenger, He got the light and turned in front of me burning tires and taking off. On the left side of me was an unmarked state police car. Oops.


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## SimplyAmorous

MrsHolland said:


> That is a seriously judgemental thing to say SA and once again you have put words in my mouth which I do not appreciate. When have I ever said I look down on people with older cars, less money? I don't care who has what, it simply has no bearing on how I feel about people, money or no money if they are a good, decent person then we are in the same league. I have friends that have truck loads more money than we do, friends that are struggling financially I love them all, zero judgement.


 Look Holland... I'm sure you're a lovely person... but honesty.. me & you have very little in common... I think I can name 2 things.. we like posting here.. and we both seem to enjoy some "power" over our men..(loved that thread of yours)... being sexy & all.. outside of that..it's pretty much squat... 

You think its grand to spend $130,000 on a vehicle... I wouldn't, I find that utterly outrageous.. SO WHAT [email protected]# Lots of people here agree with you.. 

At least I give a point of view that .... "hey Guys.. even if you're not driving an expensive hot rod maybe an old truck with some dents.... I'd still be interested in getting to know you".. that's all I am offering here..


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## Andy1001

To some people fifty grand is outrageous to spend on a car.To some people fifty grand is ok to spend on a week long vacation.Its all about perspective.


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## Andy1001

SimplyAmorous said:


> Look Holland... I'm sure you're a lovely person... but honesty.. me & you have very little in common... I think I can name 2 things.. we like posting here.. and we both seem to enjoy some "power" over our men..(loved that thread of yours)... being sexy & all.. outside of that..it's pretty much squat...
> 
> You think its grand to spend $130,000 on a vehicle... I wouldn't, I find that utterly outrageous.. SO WHAT [email protected]# Lots of people here agree with you..
> 
> At least I give a point of view that .... "hey Guys.. even if you're not driving an expensive hot rod maybe an old truck with some dents.... I'd still be interested in getting to know you".. that's all I am offering here..


Well if you're going to get flirty.....


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## john117

I'm sure SA will fall for THIS:


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## southbound

SimplyAmorous said:


> You think its grand to spend $130,000 on a vehicle... I wouldn't, I find that utterly outrageous.. SO WHAT [email protected]# Lots of people here agree with you..


There are some expensive things that are just status symbols; regardless of how much money I made, I've always said there would still be certain things I wouldn't buy because I would feel strange spending that much for it. 

I assume most rich men who wear a suit to work everyday probably don't buy the suits at JCPenny, but my mind wonders, what's the real difference in one bought at JCPenny or one I pay a huge amount for other than the fact that it's a status symbol? Oh, I know, someone can give me the low-down on quality and name brand and all that, but really, what's the difference other than status?


----------



## kristin2349

southbound said:


> There are some expensive things that are just status symbols; regardless of how much money I made, I've always said there would still be certain things I wouldn't buy because I would feel strange spending that much for it.
> 
> I assume most rich men who wear a suit to work everyday probably don't buy the suits at JCPenny, but my mind wonders, what's the real difference in one bought at JCPenny or one I pay a huge amount for other than the fact that it's a status symbol?* Oh, I know, someone can give me the low-down on quality* and name brand and all that, but really, what's the difference other than status?


With a suit you can't see a designer logo, so you are either one of those people that thinks a polyester off the rack JCP suit looks exactly the same as a custom tailored Zegna suit or you can just see there is a difference. IMO There is a huge difference in quality, and quality isn't just a "status" thing. Buying something high quality isn't always a status driven move, it can sometimes be a smart financial move it breaks down to cost per wear. Buying something high quality that will not only last longer but will look a hell of a lot better while doing it.


----------



## southbound

kristin2349 said:


> With a suit you can't see a designer logo, so you are either one of those people that thinks a polyester off the rack JCP suit looks exactly the same as a custom tailored Zegna suit or you can just see there is a difference. IMO There is a huge difference in quality, and quality isn't just a "status" thing. Buying something high quality isn't always a status driven move, it can sometimes be a smart financial move it breaks down to cost per wear. Buying something high quality that will not only last longer but will look a hell of a lot better while doing it.


That is all true. I wasn't talking about the difference between a $150 suit and a $500 suit; I know there are suits that rich people buy that costs thousands of dollars. IMO, no suit in the world is really, truly worth that because of how it holds up, I don't care if Santa's elves personally made it and shipped it from the North Pole. As far as it lasting, I would say people who would pay that for a suit probably don't keep it long enough to know how long it lasts anyway; I'm sure they wouldn't want to wear the same one for years.


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## uhtred

I completely disagree. You are good enough, or at least your wealth has nothing to do with it.

I have a bunch of friends who vary wildly in wealth. One drives a 20 year old beat up Toyota. Others have high end sports cars and airplanes. If someone has just bought a new toy, sure they talk about it - but because its interesting, not because its expensive. The great majority of the time we are talking about things that have nothing directly to do with wealth - politics, science, movies etc. 

When there is a big income discrepancy we try to hid it. If I take someone of vaguely similar wealth in my plane, I'll someimes ask to split costs. If I take someone who I know might have trouble affording it, I just forget to ask or mention it. 





SimplyAmorous said:


> But we're really NOT good enough.. this is the truth of the matter.. what would I even have to talk about with a very wealthy person who takes great pride in their Lamborghini .. one of the things I am proud about in my life is that I am frugal ...How boring is that [email protected]# ...but please don't take that away from me.. it's part of who I am..
> 
> Someone mentioned earlier how a car with some dings would be unacceptable.. that older car we had that lasted 10 years... we taught (3) sons to drive on that car.. we painted it 3 times... it had some DINGS.. but why would we get rid of it when it ran Great... it was reliable, it had that Iron Duke engine in it... to us, that would be foolish.. sure we could have spent extra hours fixing every little ding (what to impress someone else.. then have the next son have a little fender bender - thankfully they've all been minor)..
> 
> Just saying.. I understand for those who take great pride in how their vehicles look, shiny, brand new, of a certain sports persona in addition....in comparison, ours would certainly be something to frown upon..
> 
> This was our last paint job.. we all worked on this together.. sanding, puttying, masking, kids too..(memories !)....we can laugh about it now....but on a whim we picked up Blue Rustoleum at Walmart ....he kept asking me when he was stirring the paint... "you sure you don't want some white in here?".. to fix the color... I kept saying.. "Oh it will be good!"... but really... it was *TOO BLUE*.... a little embarrassing driving this around town .... once husband was going down the road and some man gave him a thumbs up & a big grin .... (we started to call it our "Smurf mobile").... another lady in a store stopped him to ask about the car .. she loved the color...it caught some attention...God bless our teen sons.. they still held their head high...
> 
> 
> 
> I think what I admire in people is being responsible and being kind.. I want to feel accepted for my/our choices too, even a silly adventure like above.. could I really laugh with a higher class person over this.. I don't [email protected]# ... I can respect your choices to buy high end vehicles if that makes you happy...obviously we all value different things in life.. would I personally be compatible with someone like this.. probably not... and if they wanted these things & didn't have the money, buying on credit.. I'd want to KILL THEM!
> 
> I really wouldn't want my husband working 100 hrs a week -because he had a need for more high end Toys...that this fulfilled him somehow... I feel something like that would have taken an awful toll on our marriage...it would be fantastic to make great money & not be a workaholic though & easily afford these things.. of course !!
> 
> For us.. it was more about having a family.. and just "making it"...


----------



## uhtred

Facebook can be really bad for this. Some people make posts to brag: "look at the gold plated faucet handles in our 5-star hotel". Some people do it unintentionally: "here is a photo from our hotel room on the 83rd floor in shanghai". 

When you see those, remember:
Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean favored, and imperially slim.

And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.

And he was rich—yes, richer than a king—
And admirably schooled in every grace:
In fine, we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.

So on we worked, and waited for the light,
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet through his head.


That's me.






ReformedHubby said:


> Yeah.....facebook is a huuuuuge part of this. My wife literally documents everything, and to be honest it doesn't help. One of my closest friends told me that he felt like his wife's constant comparison of our differing lifestyles led to his divorce. That was hard to take. I think the worst thing is that all of my friends were doing much better than me years ago. They had better houses and cars, and to be honest my wife was a little envious. When I first started my business, I had a rusted out car with duct tape on the mirrors for years. A Disney vacation was a pipe dream for my family. The best I could do was a trip to movies. Even my wife's family thought she had married a loser because they were well to do. But over time I guess my ship came in. I think the thing that hurts the most is I was happy for my friends when they had more than me, but when things changed not all of them were happy for me. Yeah...this thread is depressing me


----------



## ReformedHubby

kristin2349 said:


> With a suit you can't see a designer logo, so you are either one of those people that thinks a polyester off the rack JCP suit looks exactly the same as a custom tailored Zegna suit or you can just see there is a difference. IMO There is a huge difference in quality, and quality isn't just a "status" thing. Buying something high quality isn't always a status driven move, it can sometimes be a smart financial move it breaks down to cost per wear. Buying something high quality that will not only last longer but will look a hell of a lot better while doing it.


Looks...like we need to start a men and suits thread too. Its not about how much a suit costs, its a bout the fit. Doesn't do you any good to pay a bunch of money for a Hugo Boss if it makes you look like a walking rectangle. It should fit your body like a glove. These days you can get a custom made to measure suit for pretty close to the price you would pay for an off the rack one, if you know where to go. It won't be bespoke, but it will look a lot better on you than something you just picked up from a men's clothing store. Considering most men only have one or two suits these days if that, I think its worth the cost to get one that fits correctly.


----------



## southbound

uhtred said:


> I completely disagree. You are good enough, or at least your wealth has nothing to do with it.
> 
> I have a bunch of friends who vary wildly in wealth. One drives a 20 year old beat up Toyota. Others have high end sports cars and airplanes. If someone has just bought a new toy, sure they talk about it - but because its interesting, not because its expensive. The great majority of the time we are talking about things that have nothing directly to do with wealth - politics, science, movies etc.
> 
> When there is a big income discrepancy we try to hid it. If I take someone of vaguely similar wealth in my plane, I'll sometimes ask to split costs. If I take someone who I know might have trouble affording it, I just forget to ask or mention it.


Maybe things are changing. If they are, that's great. As I said, there have been some rich people at some point in time do some things to create this snobby stereootype they have, and it happened long before facebook.

I live in a rural area where all classes have to mingle; they don't get their own, separate facilities and activities like the J.R. Ewings. So, they try to act normal. I've noticed that all classes tend to think their position is normal. I've been around some people in my area that are higher up the wealth ladder than most. They are nice enough; they don't intentionally go around putting everybody down, but subtle things will slip at times that lets one know how they really feel.

I can think of one lady that i really don't think is trying to be snooty, but she will say things to people like, "Oh, you don't hire someone to clean your house?" "Oh, you didn't buy a new car, I never get a used one?" "Oh, you aren't going on vacation this year, I go somewhere every year."

But maybe those things are changing and the stereotypes are just that and no longer based on reality.


----------



## southbound

ReformedHubby said:


> Looks...like we need to start a men and suits thread too. Its not about how much a suit costs, its a bout the fit. Doesn't do you any good to pay a bunch of money for a Hugo Boss if it makes you look like a walking rectangle. It should fit your body like a glove. These days you can get a custom made to measure suit for pretty close to the price you would pay for an off the rack one, if you know where to go. It won't be bespoke, but it will look a lot better on you than something you just picked up from a men's clothing store. Considering most men only have one or two suits these days if that, I think its worth the cost to get one that fits correctly.


Oh no, I've created a monster. I knew i should have used something else as an example. I should have used a piece of farm equipment as an example. I don't think there are too many farmers here, so then, everyone would just have to have taken my word for it and let it go.:smile2:


----------



## wild jade

john117 said:


> I'm sure SA will fall for THIS:


Mega-cute!


----------



## wild jade

southbound said:


> They are nice enough; they don't intentionally go around putting everybody down, but subtle things will slip at times that lets one know how they really feel.
> 
> I can think of one lady that i really don't think is trying to be snooty, but she will say things to people like, "Oh, you don't hire someone to clean your house?" "Oh, you didn't buy a new car, I never get a used one?" "Oh, you aren't going on vacation this year, I go somewhere every year."


You also have to be careful what you read into these sorts of comments. Why take insult at what is probably just cluelessness?

I find it interesting just how aware people are of what others are doing when they have more, but how unaware when they have less. It's almost like we want to make ourselves miserable over how much stuff we do (or don't) have.


----------



## ReformedHubby

southbound said:


> Maybe things are changing. If they are, that's great. As I said, there have been some rich people at some point in time do some things to create this snobby stereootype they have, and it happened long before facebook.
> 
> I live in a rural area where all classes have to mingle; they don't get their own, separate facilities and activities like the J.R. Ewings. So, they try to act normal. I've noticed that all classes tend to think their position is normal. I've been around some people in my area that are higher up the wealth ladder than most. They are nice enough; they don't intentionally go around putting everybody down, but subtle things will slip at times that lets one know how they really feel.
> 
> I can think of one lady that i really don't think is trying to be snooty, but she will say things to people like, "Oh, you don't hire someone to clean your house?" "Oh, you didn't buy a new car, I never get a used one?" "Oh, you aren't going on vacation this year, I go somewhere every year."
> 
> But maybe those things are changing and the stereotypes are just that and no longer based on reality.


I think the stereotypes come from people that are "old money". That's an entirely different culture, and I can actually see how someone would be completely out of touch if they come from a family that had wealth for generations. They simply can't relate. I can remember going to school with rich kids that had no clue about what it is like to have to worry about money and budget. They weren't bad people per se, they just lived in a different reality than I did, which made them clueless and insensitive when it came to understanding how finances impact most people.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

john117 said:


> I'm sure SA will fall for THIS:


I understand others feel differntly here.. that's what makes the world go round.. but honesty... vehicles of any sort is just not something I get excited about...a Car show may be a step up from a football game to me.. but it's still not something I'd care to attend ... Sure I'll notice these spruced up vehicles coming down the road, and the older ones.. that's pretty cool.. Yes!... I'd be telling the kids to LOOK!!... but really... attraction wise or MAN wise...it's who is behind the wheel.. what HE is made of... his story.. 

I would find a practical working truck (always a Chevy!) where we can haul our Lawn Tractors around that cost thousands & thousands less far more up my alley... but I still liked your post @john117 !! 



southbound said:


> There are some expensive things that are just status symbols;* regardless of how much money I made, I've always said there would still be certain things I wouldn't buy because I would feel strange spending that much for it. *


 I can't say I would feel strange.. it's more like this : If I won millions on the lottery tomorrow (which we don't play so not going to happen)... I still wouldn't buy a new car .. I know me! I would look at that & immediately think to myself.... "If I spent that MUCH $$ on (1) vehicle , where I could have bought another 10 decent vehicles or more... I'd opt to stretch that money as WIDE as I could to bless others too.. like our friends / family members ... many of them haven't had the best circumstances in life.. we live in a struggling area... and I would feel very good about that.. I'd want to share with those who have been there us.. ya know. 

I want to get the most bang for my dollar in any given situation, that's ingrained in my psyche ...

When we married even.... I skimped on my own Wedding dress....only spent $140, I couldn't bring myself to buy a high priced gown... the idea made me cringe....I opted for a white Tea Length gown...we had a Large wedding too, nothing wrong with bucking a little tradition....

Having saved so much there....we picked up the strapless dresses for 4 bridesmaids, then decided to pay for the tuxes too, for the guys.. Some of those in our wedding really didn't have the money, they didn't complain.. but we knew their situations....We felt good about doing that & we easily had the money to spare... . so Yeah.. that's how I think..


----------



## Andy1001

SimplyAmorous said:


> I understand others feel differntly here.. that's what makes the world go round.. but honesty... vehicles of any sort is just not something I get excited about...a Car show may be a step up from a football game to me.. but it's still not something I'd care to attend ... Sure I'll notice these spruced up vehicles coming down the road, and the older ones.. that's pretty cool.. Yes!... I'd be telling the kids to LOOK!!... but really... attraction wise or MAN wise...it's who is behind the wheel.. what HE is made of... his story..
> 
> I would find a practical working truck (always a Chevy!) where we can haul our Lawn Tractors around that cost thousands & thousands less far more up my alley... but I still liked your post @john117 !!
> 
> I can't say I would feel strange.. it's more like this : If I won millions on the lottery tomorrow (which we don't play so not going to happen)... I still wouldn't buy a new car .. I know me! I would look at that & immediately think to myself.... "If I spent that MUCH $$ on (1) vehicle , where I could have bought another 10 decent vehicles or more... I'd opt to stretch that money as WIDE as I could to bless others too.. like our friends / family members ... many of them haven't had the best circumstances in life.. we live in a struggling area... and I would feel very good about that.. I'd want to share with those who have been there us.. ya know.
> 
> I want to get the most bang for my dollar in any given situation, that's ingrained in my psyche ...
> 
> When we married even.... I skimped on my own Wedding dress....only spent $140, I couldn't bring myself to buy a high priced gown... the idea made me cringe....I opted for a white Tea Length gown...we had a Large wedding too, nothing wrong with bucking a little tradition....
> 
> Having saved so much there....we picked up the strapless dresses for 4 bridesmaids, then decided to pay for the tuxes too, for the guys.. Some of those in our wedding really didn't have the money, they didn't complain.. but we knew their situations....We felt good about doing that & we easily had the money to spare... . so Yeah.. that's how I think..


I was supposed to get married this month,long story not going to happen now.Including dresses,suits,reception.accommodation,music and honeymoon it was coming in at about three hundred grand.


----------



## Betrayedone

This thread has become filled with snobbery and envy. It has run amok...........


----------



## southbound

SimplyAmorous said:


> I understand others feel differntly here.. that's what makes the world go round.. but honesty... vehicles of any sort is just not something I get excited about...a Car show may be a step up from a football game to me.. but it's still not something I'd care to attend ... Sure I'll notice these spruced up vehicles coming down the road, and the older ones.. that's pretty cool.. Yes!... I'd be telling the kids to LOOK!!... but really... attraction wise or MAN wise...it's who is behind the wheel.. what HE is made of... his story..


Same here; I'm a guy, and I've never cared much about cars other than their practical functions myself, so I never give much thought to whether i would look cooler driving something else.



SimplyAmorous said:


> I would find a practical working truck (always a Chevy!) where we can haul our Lawn Tractors around that cost thousands & thousands less far more up my alley.


Same here, I buy for the practical ability of the vehicle. A couple of years ago, I bought a used, quad cab truck that was already 8 years old, but i got it for about $15,000 less than a new one, and these trucks are built to last. It got quad cab, so I get the benefits of being able to hold 6 people, but the benefits of a truck as well. It's also 4-wheel drive, which is great for the past couple of winters we've had, and it has more than enough power. With that said, it serves my needs perfectly. It doesn't matter what other vehicle i encounter at the red light, I'm more than satisfied with mine because it serves my needs. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> I want to get the most bang for my dollar in any given situation, that's ingrained in my psyche ...
> 
> When we married even.... I skimped on my own Wedding dress....only spent $140, I couldn't bring myself to buy a high priced gown... the idea made me cringe....I opted for a white Tea Length gown...we had a Large wedding too, nothing wrong with bucking a little tradition....


that is basically what i meant by it making me feel strange; I like to get the best bang for my buck, and it would make me cringe to give a high amount for certain things, even if I did have the money. 



Andy1001 said:


> I was supposed to get married this month,long story not going to happen now.Including dresses,suits,reception.accommodation,music and honeymoon it was coming in at about three hundred grand.


Ok, I honestly read over this a few times and seriously thought I had forgotten what a grand meant. I thought, "Ok, it can't mean three hundred thousand; maybe a grand means something else." 

Good garsh, I know some of these events happened several years ago in my life, but I didn't spend three hundred thousand on the wedding, honeymoon, dream house, 18 acres, two vehicles, and my college education. As Shaggy would say, "Zoiks!"


----------



## Andy1001

southbound said:


> Same here; I'm a guy, and I've never cared much about cars other than their practical functions myself, so I never give much thought to whether i would look cooler driving something else.
> 
> 
> 
> Same here, I buy for the practical ability of the vehicle. A couple of years ago, I bought a used, quad cab truck that was already 8 years old, but i got it for about $15,000 less than a new one, and these trucks are built to last. It got quad cab, so I get the benefits of being able to hold 6 people, but the benefits of a truck as well. It's also 4-wheel drive, which is great for the past couple of winters we've had, and it has more than enough power. With that said, it serves my needs perfectly. It doesn't matter what other vehicle i encounter at the red light, I'm more than satisfied with mine because it serves my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> that is basically what i meant by it making me feel strange; I like to get the best bang for my buck, and it would make me cringe to give a high amount for certain things, even if I did have the money.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I honestly read over this a few times and seriously thought I had forgotten what a grand meant. I thought, "Ok, it can't mean three hundred thousand; maybe a grand means something else."
> 
> Good garsh, I know some of these events happened several years ago in my life, but I didn't spend three hundred thousand on the wedding, honeymoon, dream house, 18 acres, two vehicles, and my college education. As Shaggy would say, "Zoiks!"


My ex's dress was over twenty grand and the band were forty grand.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Betrayedone said:


> This thread has become filled with snobbery and envy. It has run amok...........


I feel it represents the vast disparity between social classes.. but this should not be surprising...

When I read this.. 



Andy1001 said:


> My ex's dress was over twenty grand* and the band were forty grand*.


It's very difficult to relate to... as the majority of our friends, many people in our area earn about $40,000 / $50,000 a year to live on, raise their families.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Betrayedone said:


> This thread has become filled with snobbery and envy. It has run amok...........


Not sure I agree with that statement....I think at some point as people its difficult to walk in each other's shoes. Years ago I would have totally been against spending 200k on a car. That honestly would have sounded insane to me, and way over the top. I just couldn't conceptualize it. But...when your income and net worth go up so much that 200k for you is what 10k used to be, it completely changes your perception. You really don't see it as frivolous, or a waste of money at all. You don't even really think about things the same way anymore when it comes to finances. I still maintain that money does not change the person, but it DOES change what you buy in terms of houses, cars, and vacations. Not everyone gives a crap about cars, but no matter who you are, if you come into money and are comfortable, you will definitely buy the things you always wanted. Maybe its a beach or a lake house, maybe its an RV to go across country, or a boat, or a ridiculously fancy tractor. Maybe you'll just travel the world, or maybe you'll throw a ridiculous wedding for your daughter. I guess I feel like its easy to say we would never spend that kind of money on xyz, but.....everyone has something they would spend a bundle on if they had the means.


----------



## Andy1001

ReformedHubby said:


> Not sure I agree with that statement....I think at some point as people its difficult to walk in each other's shoes. Years ago I would have totally been against spending 200k on a car. That honestly would have sounded insane to me, and way over the top. I just couldn't conceptualize it. But...when your income and net worth go up so much that 200k for you is what 10k used to be, it completely changes your perception. You really don't see it as frivolous, or a waste of money at all. You don't even really think about things the same way anymore when it comes to finances. I still maintain that money does not change the person, but it DOES change what you buy in terms of houses, cars, and vacations. Not everyone gives a crap about cars, but no matter who you are, if you come into money and are comfortable, you will definitely buy the things you always wanted. Maybe its a beach or a lake house, maybe its an RV to go across country, or a boat, or a ridiculously fancy tractor. Maybe you'll just travel the world, or maybe you'll throw a ridiculous wedding for your daughter. I guess I feel like its easy to say we would never spend that kind of money on xyz, but.....everyone has something they would spend a bundle on if they had the means.


But when it comes to expensive cars there is another side to the coin.A limited edition Ferrari or Lambo will actually increase in value so if can be called an investment in certain circumstances.
Btw I still ended up over a hundred grand down over the wedding,lost deposits,dresses etc.The only ones who didn't stiff me for their money was the band.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

ReformedHubby said:


> Not sure I agree with that statement....I think at some point as people its difficult to walk in each other's shoes. Years ago I would have totally been against spending 200k on a car. That honestly would have sounded insane to me, and way over the top. I just couldn't conceptualize it. But...when your income and net worth go up so much that 200k for you is what 10k used to be, it completely changes your perception. You really don't see it as frivolous, or a waste of money at all. You don't even really think about things the same way anymore when it comes to finances. I still maintain that money does not change the person, but it DOES change what you buy in terms of houses, cars, and vacations. Not everyone gives a crap about cars, but no matter who you are, if you come into money and are comfortable, you will definitely buy the things you always wanted. Maybe its a beach or a lake house, maybe its an RV to go across country, or a boat, or a ridiculously fancy tractor. Maybe you'll just travel the world, or maybe you'll throw a ridiculous wedding for your daughter. I guess I feel like its easy to say we would never spend that kind of money on xyz, but.....everyone has something they would spend a bundle on if they had the means.


I read your post to my husband just now.. we agree with what you say here.. although it may not have changed you .. I've done a few threads here on "Change" and one thing established in those is .. our experiences, whether good or bad.. often DO change us... in one way or another... if our perceptions change along with them.. this is still a part of changing us, or so I feel.. 

If someone can no longer identify with the little people -where he or she once came from...with the more simple lifestyles...often, it's going to put a damper on those who you once had relationships with. 

But true.. there are surely things I would be very happy to buy if we came into big money.. we were not very bright long ago, not signing for a gas/oil lease in our area, could have had $180,000 (minus taxes) laid in our hands - just for signing.. but we passed it up -just because we didn't want it near our house (sentimental value there)...everyone thought we were crazy.. why didn't you sign! I was holding out for a "no surface" lease.. ..even though I think we would have just saved this amount, used it for college etc..

But if we had money to blow.. a new lawn tractor.. ours is a '73 Gravely and it's still doing the job so we keep running it...My husband thinks most of them aren't made the way they used to be... He's never been on an airplane.. so we'd fly to see the Grand Canyon , he'd also love to see those Hot Springs.. and I'd love to drive through these....







[/url], go see Mount Rushmore.. we may still get to those things someday.. Maybe we'd visit another country... We'd fix up our house... hire someone to plant many dog wood trees.. I could never get one to live when I planted the darn things... 

Vacationing, exploring more of our world would be high on my list..


----------



## southbound

ReformedHubby said:


> Not sure I agree with that statement....I think at some point as people its difficult to walk in each other's shoes. Years ago I would have totally been against spending 200k on a car. That honestly would have sounded insane to me, and way over the top. I just couldn't conceptualize it. But...when your income and net worth go up so much that 200k for you is what 10k used to be, it completely changes your perception. You really don't see it as frivolous, or a waste of money at all. You don't even really think about things the same way anymore when it comes to finances. I still maintain that money does not change the person, but it DOES change what you buy in terms of houses, cars, and vacations. Not everyone gives a crap about cars, but no matter who you are, if you come into money and are comfortable, you will definitely buy the things you always wanted. Maybe its a beach or a lake house, maybe its an RV to go across country, or a boat, or a ridiculously fancy tractor. Maybe you'll just travel the world, or maybe you'll throw a ridiculous wedding for your daughter. I guess I feel like its easy to say we would never spend that kind of money on xyz, but.....everyone has something they would spend a bundle on if they had the means.


I don't think money changes who a person is at the core, but i think it can make some changes that gradually happen that the person may not even realize.

Let me tell on myself a bit. I rode with a friend to a formal event this summer, and his car did not have air conditioning. Temps were in the upper 90s, it was uncomfortable, and by the time we got there I was kinda sweaty and felt like I'd been through an ordeal. If it had been a normal situation, it would have been no big deal, but being dressed up and wanting to look half-way decent when we arrived just made it a bit more of a challenge. he also had some items in the car that he didn't want the air to beat to death, so the windows were cracked, but not all the way down. It was his norm, so he thought nothing of it. 

I complained to myself a bit, but later questioned it and felt snooty, even though i didn't say anything to him. I asked myself, "Oh, am I too good now to ride without air conditioning? I didn't grow up with air conditioning in the cars or house for a large portion of my childhood, but now I'm a little too special to not have air in a car?" I wouldn't have given it a second thought as a kid. 

I see a similar thing played out on a larger scale with some rich people I know because their "stuff" is leaps and bounds above the average person, and once a person gets accustomed to having those expensive things, it becomes their norm. It's a little less exciting to go watch the game on your friend's 25 inch tv when you have a home theater in you basement. It's just not as exciting to take the family to someone's house who can only hose down a canvas for the kid's slip & slide when you have a huge underground pool. 

This creates distance in what people have in common. So, while the rich people may not really think the people who make 50k a year are lesser people in the scheme of life, they probably do find their lifestyle less interesting, and the two have difficulty relating to each other. The ones who make 50k a year do not live a lifestyle that is good enough to keep the rich people excited, so there is distance.

This is only my observations from what i've seen in real life. I'm not saying it applies to everyone or anyone on this forum, but i have witnessed it.


----------



## Andy1001

southbound said:


> I don't think money changes who a person is at the core, but i think it can make some changes that gradually happen that the person may not even realize.
> 
> Let me tell on myself a bit. I rode with a friend to a formal event this summer, and his car did not have air conditioning. Temps were in the upper 90s, it was uncomfortable, and by the time we got there I was kinda sweaty and felt like I'd been through an ordeal. If it had been a normal situation, it would have been no big deal, but being dressed up and wanting to look half-way decent when we arrived just made it a bit more of a challenge. he also had some items in the car that he didn't want the air to beat to death, so the windows were cracked, but not all the way down. It was his norm, so he thought nothing of it.
> 
> I complained to myself a bit, but later questioned it and felt snooty, even though i didn't say anything to him. I asked myself, "Oh, am I too good now to ride without air conditioning? I didn't grow up with air conditioning in the cars or house for a large portion of my childhood, but now I'm a little too special to not have air in a car?" I wouldn't have given it a second thought as a kid.
> 
> I see a similar thing played out on a larger scale with some rich people I know because their "stuff" is leaps and bounds above the average person, and once a person gets accustomed to having those expensive things, it becomes their norm. It's a little less exciting to go watch the game on your friend's 25 inch tv when you have a home theater in you basement. It's just not as exciting to take the family to someone's house who can only hose down a canvas for the kid's slip & slide when you have a huge underground pool.
> 
> This creates distance in what people have in common. So, while the rich people may not really think the people who make 50k a year are lesser people in the scheme of life, they probably do find their lifestyle less interesting, and the two have difficulty relating to each other. The ones who make 50k a year do not live a lifestyle that is good enough to keep the rich people excited, so there is distance.
> 
> This is only my observations from what i've seen in real life. I'm not saying it applies to everyone or anyone on this forum, but i have witnessed it.


You are absolutely right in everything you say.I have two friends,both gay girls,who have been together for years.One of them has a good education and a good paying nursing job,the other teaches a few self defence classes each week.Due to certain circumstances the girl who teaches martial arts is actually worth a few million dollars but has never revealed this to her partner.In the last few months this information became known and the other girl(nurse) just could not accept it and broke up.They weren't poor by any means but the one with the career liked being the main breadwinner in the relationship and could not accept that she in actual fact was the "poor relation".This is an inverse snobbery and I for one could not think of any advice to give them.


----------



## MattMatt

Andy1001 said:


> You are absolutely right in everything you say.I have two friends,both gay girls,who have been together for years.One of them has a good education and a good paying nursing job,the other teaches a few self defence classes each week.Due to certain circumstances the girl who teaches martial arts is actually worth a few million dollars but has never revealed this to her partner.In the last few months this information became known and the other girl(nurse) just could not accept it and broke up.They weren't poor by any means but the one with the career liked being the main breadwinner in the relationship and could not accept that she in actual fact was the "poor relation".This is an inverse snobbery and I for one could not think of any advice to give them.


An interesting story.

However, it's a threadjack so perhaps you could use your post to start a new thread, please?


----------



## Andy1001

MattMatt said:


> An interesting story.
> 
> However, it's a threadjack so perhaps you could use your post to start a new thread, please?


My apologies.


----------



## UMP

Personal said:


> I want to own an old Citroën DS21, I wonder what that says about me?


It says you have exceptional taste, think outside the box, like art and could give a crap what other people say or think about you, although I prefer the Citroen SM. Buy both.:smile2:


----------



## uhtred

I think you have hit on one very good reason to not spend money on fun: spending it on people who need it more. That can be tricky though. I have cousins who are much poorer that I am. Do I give them money? Or is that just insulting? They don't *need* money - they are fine on necessities. The like to travel, should we offer to take them on a nice vacation? Or would that feel like showing off our money?

On the original topic: I think the car a man drives says something about him, but you need to know a lot more before you can interpret it. How someone drives I think is a better indication.






SimplyAmorous said:


> I understand others feel differntly here.. that's what makes the world go round.. but honesty... vehicles of any sort is just not something I get excited about...a Car show may be a step up from a football game to me.. but it's still not something I'd care to attend ... Sure I'll notice these spruced up vehicles coming down the road, and the older ones.. that's pretty cool.. Yes!... I'd be telling the kids to LOOK!!... but really... attraction wise or MAN wise...it's who is behind the wheel.. what HE is made of... his story..
> 
> I would find a practical working truck (always a Chevy!) where we can haul our Lawn Tractors around that cost thousands & thousands less far more up my alley... but I still liked your post @john117 !!
> 
> I can't say I would feel strange.. it's more like this : If I won millions on the lottery tomorrow (which we don't play so not going to happen)... I still wouldn't buy a new car .. I know me! I would look at that & immediately think to myself.... "If I spent that MUCH $$ on (1) vehicle , where I could have bought another 10 decent vehicles or more... I'd opt to stretch that money as WIDE as I could to bless others too.. like our friends / family members ... many of them haven't had the best circumstances in life.. we live in a struggling area... and I would feel very good about that.. I'd want to share with those who have been there us.. ya know.
> 
> I want to get the most bang for my dollar in any given situation, that's ingrained in my psyche ...
> 
> When we married even.... I skimped on my own Wedding dress....only spent $140, I couldn't bring myself to buy a high priced gown... the idea made me cringe....I opted for a white Tea Length gown...we had a Large wedding too, nothing wrong with bucking a little tradition....
> 
> Having saved so much there....we picked up the strapless dresses for 4 bridesmaids, then decided to pay for the tuxes too, for the guys.. Some of those in our wedding really didn't have the money, they didn't complain.. but we knew their situations....We felt good about doing that & we easily had the money to spare... . so Yeah.. that's how I think..


----------



## SimplyAmorous

uhtred said:


> I think you have hit on one very good reason to not spend money on fun: spending it on people who need it more. That can be tricky though. I have cousins who are much poorer that I am. Do I give them money? Or is that just insulting? They don't *need* money - they are fine on necessities. The like to travel, should we offer to take them on a nice vacation? Or would that feel like showing off our money?
> 
> On the original topic: I think the car a man drives says something about him, but you need to know a lot more before you can interpret it. How someone drives I think is a better indication.


I am not trying to be a kill joy.. my postings on this thread represent, obviously, some of us lower "social class" people.. I want my fun too.. . I think I already mentioned a # of our friends *have struggled*, much more so over us (I wouldn't even say we have struggled.. we've always had the necessities -even if I wouldn't care if our vehicles had air conditioning - had to mention that as Southbound did in one of his posts) ha ha... 

Anyway, one of my GF's...she was raising 3 kids on her own for a good 15 yrs....she has always been very very careful with money, the little she had coming in (just not good paying jobs but she was the most faithful employee- I even think she was taken advantage of at one of her jobs, I wanted her to quit) ... but still....she just never had any extra for even the smallest vacation, that would be a "luxury" for her & her kids... she didn't even have health coverage for years...

I always felt bad for her situation, is this any way to live?....One way to include her, I have planned smaller tips, one nighters, where I offered to take them all, a night at a Water park for instance -on us...she was so happy to go... and we were happy to have a large group of us hanging around going down the slides together... 

She knows.. if me & my husband offer something... we have enough to spare...and yeah.. it's OK to take us up on it, no strings.. just enjoy! I also never felt she was a jealous person who begrudged us for the bigger trips we'd take, or what we have... even if in comparison.. she has struggled so much harder...

One thing I know is this: she'd be there for me in a heartbeat ..coming to sit with me, care for me if I needed it...she has since gotten married, and life has been easier for her, more carefree... on the way to decorate the hall for her wedding.. she was telling me how she feels guilty that her soon to be husband gave her a car, a newer car... she's always tried to be so independent.. I listened to her and realized just how SPOILED I HAVE BEEN in my own life.. that she struggled with that.. but I wanted so bad to assure her he just wanted to bless her.. because she is just a humble loving woman.. who would never take advantage of him.. 

So yeah...so happy for her... '

But no.. I would not offer things like this to anyone who, like us.. had it covered.. if you know what I mean.. Not trying to make points with anyone... just be a blessing where I / we can.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

southbound said:


> I see a similar thing played out on a larger scale with some rich people I know because their "stuff" is leaps and bounds above the average person, and once a person gets accustomed to having those expensive things, it becomes their norm. It's a little less exciting to go watch the game on your friend's 25 inch tv when you have a home theater in you basement. It's just not as exciting to take the family to someone's house who can only hose down a canvas for the kid's slip & slide when you have a huge underground pool.
> 
> This creates distance in what people have in common. So, while the rich people may not really think the people who make 50k a year are lesser people in the scheme of life, *they probably do find their lifestyle less interesting, and the two have difficulty relating to each other. The ones who make 50k a year do not live a lifestyle that is good enough to keep the rich people excited, so there is distance.
> 
> This is only my observations from what i've seen in real life. I'm not saying it applies to everyone or anyone on this forum, but i have witnessed it.*


I think along the same reasoning here.. *"The excitement factor"*... if one hasn't experienced or lived what can be easily afforded with a wealthier affluent lifestyle....having traveled the world, country clubs, eating at the finest restaurants, driving luxurious cars, some live in mansions with their our tennis court out back, have chauffeurs, nannies, maybe a corporate Jet too ... come on...what possibly could someone who struggled to make ends meet have in common, heck even middle class families !

Could you really have them over for dinner one night ? Would any of them want to hang with us if we couldn't afford to do what they are used to doing, going, eating, playing.... it's simply not realistic.... 

Due to this thread, this disparity of understanding.... I have been reading more about the growing gap between the upper social class & lower... may just have to start my own thread in the Political section at some point...

I do wonder where some's definition of "Greed" begins...or how many would outright deny that if we're not careful, it can take a hit on our compassion & empathy towards others, as we climb higher on the ladder of success, with this comes power, influence... Now this is not to deny that those at the lowest rung on that ladder don't have their share of hatred & green eyed envy....still the ever widening gap between us is not helping matters.. Rampant "Corporate Greed" certainly bothers me, I'll tell you.. 

I liked this post I found on "Quora" ..



> More money means more opportunity. An excess of money means an extravagance of opportunity.
> 
> Opportunity to do what?
> 
> 1. To do more of what one already does, and
> 2. To do what one has always only dreamed of but could not do for a lack of resources.
> 
> In short, more money makes one more of what he already is. A jerk becomes a bigger jerk. A good person becomes even better.
> 
> Money isn't the solution or the problem. It's an amplifier.


A small example of how that "Exciting factor" could play on our minds... this has nothing to do with "envy" -but we question if what we have will be as entertaining or exciting...

Days ago I was asked to host the Band Halloween Party at our house...I tell our daughter.. the 1st thing she says was ..."It's always at Chad's, have you ever seen his house, they are really Rich "... They always do the Fog machine, go all out, games...the teens love going there...Immediately I'm feeling some pressure here.. I got to make this a success...I want our party to be just as much of a good time!/ *exciting for them*. 

So what did I do today....I went out & spent almost $200 on Halloween decorations so I can spruce our house/ property up with lights, scary stuff, 5 ft webs, light up webs, had to get one of those FOG machines !.... bats / skeletons hanging in trees, zombie cling-ons for my mirrors, flickering candelabras, a moving Skeleton candy bowl that talks with red beady eyes , etc etc .... I know our house won't compare to theirs.. but I'm gonna do all I can for some "atmosphere" none the less...we do have a great yard for a Bonfire anyway... 

In reality.. these kids will make the Party, their interaction.. but sure.. there is a little intimidation here...


----------



## heartsbeating

uhtred said:


> Its generally believed, or at least implied in advertising, that frequently men buy cars to impress women. So.... does it work? Does the type of car a man drives change you opinion of him, and if so, how?


For me, somewhat. 

I'm more inclined to think the pickup truck guy, having a vehicle with utility, would be more interesting than flashy sports car guy. I think $100k for a vehicle is within sane levels of spending even though my car isn't near that. There are brands and styles I have perceptions about as to who the target market is.

After seeing a Ferrari on the road the other day, it sparked a similar conversation between hubs and I. My perception on high end sports car guy is that he's so wealthy that the cost of this car is chump change to him, either that or he's stretched himself so thin to own the car. Either way, it's unrelatable for me - and likely only relatable to a niche group. That's not appealing to me.

Pickup truck guy might have a dog in the back, uses his vehicle for work or for his own home / community projects. That's more interesting to me. And I think I helped hubs sell me on the idea of him getting a pickup. Wait, how did that happen?! It makes sense where we live now. Utility. If it's not in the belt, it needs to be in the vehicle.

After conjuring various stories on our journey of who might drive which vehicle, we saw a classic old van. I surmised they're likely to be the multimillionaire. Some wealthy business owners I've met consciously chose to drive very moderate cars to remain relatable to their staff and clients.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## uhtred

I think there are a couple of things going on.

There are several categories of "wealthy" these days. In addition to old family money, and traditional "banker" wealth there is new wealth from high tech. I think the high-techwealth is socially very different. Many of the high-tech wealthy went to school with lots of middle and lower class friends. Those friendships continued as some hit it lucky and some did not. I think that gives the high-tech wealthy a connection to the rest of the world that many of the old wealthy don't have.

Explaining money to children is tough. I remember growing up when other kids all seemed to have better stuff. It was difficult to understand why they could fly across the country to Disneyland but we couldn't. I think all you can do is try to find other ways to make things interesting for children. With little kids a $5 package of "rocket balloons" can provide an amazing amount of entertainment. As kids get older though it gets trickier - they become more aware of money, but don't yet have the sophistication to understand its limits. 





SimplyAmorous said:


> I think along the same reasoning here.. *"The excitement factor"*... if one hasn't experienced or lived what can be easily afforded with a wealthier affluent lifestyle....having traveled the world, country clubs, eating at the finest restaurants, driving luxurious cars, some live in mansions with their our tennis court out back, have chauffeurs, nannies, maybe a corporate Jet too ... come on...what possibly could someone who struggled to make ends meet have in common, heck even middle class families !
> 
> Could you really have them over for dinner one night ? Would any of them want to hang with us if we couldn't afford to do what they are used to doing, going, eating, playing.... it's simply not realistic....
> 
> Due to this thread, this disparity of understanding.... I have been reading more about the growing gap between the upper social class & lower... may just have to start my own thread in the Political section at some point...
> 
> I do wonder where some's definition of "Greed" begins...or how many would outright deny that if we're not careful, it can take a hit on our compassion & empathy towards others, as we climb higher on the ladder of success, with this comes power, influence... Now this is not to deny that those at the lowest rung on that ladder don't have their share of hatred & green eyed envy....still the ever widening gap between us is not helping matters.. Rampant "Corporate Greed" certainly bothers me, I'll tell you..
> 
> I liked this post I found on "Quora" ..
> 
> 
> 
> A small example of how that "Exciting factor" could play on our minds... this has nothing to do with "envy" -but we question if what we have will be as entertaining or exciting...
> 
> Days ago I was asked to host the Band Halloween Party at our house...I tell our daughter.. the 1st thing she says was ..."It's always at Chad's, have you ever seen his house, they are really Rich "... They always do the Fog machine, go all out, games...the teens love going there...Immediately I'm feeling some pressure here.. I got to make this a success...I want our party to be just as much of a good time!/ *exciting for them*.
> 
> So what did I do today....I went out & spent almost $200 on Halloween decorations so I can spruce our house/ property up with lights, scary stuff, 5 ft webs, light up webs, had to get one of those FOG machines !.... bats / skeletons hanging in trees, zombie cling-ons for my mirrors, flickering candelabras, a moving Skeleton candy bowl that talks with red beady eyes , etc etc .... I know our house won't compare to theirs.. but I'm gonna do all I can for some "atmosphere" none the less...we do have a great yard for a Bonfire anyway...
> 
> In reality.. these kids will make the Party, their interaction.. but sure.. there is a little intimidation here...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

uhtred said:


> I think there are a couple of things going on.
> 
> There are several categories of "wealthy" these days. In addition to old family money, and traditional "banker" wealth there is new wealth from high tech. I think the high-techwealth is socially very different. Many of the high-tech wealthy went to school with lots of middle and lower class friends. Those friendships continued as some hit it lucky and some did not. I think that gives the high-tech wealthy a connection to the rest of the world that many of the old wealthy don't have.
> 
> *Explaining money to children is tough. I remember growing up when other kids all seemed to have better stuff. It was difficult to understand why they could fly across the country to Disneyland but we couldn't. I think all you can do is try to find other ways to make things interesting for children. With little kids a $5 package of "rocket balloons" can provide an amazing amount of entertainment. As kids get older though it gets trickier - they become more aware of money, but don't yet have the sophistication to understand its limits.*


I can't say we've found it difficult with our kids.. they know we do very well on what we earn.. when they want something.. the money is there... but they also know.. if they find something junky in the store -which I know how this goes.. they'd play with it, break it or get bored with it within hours...it won't be bought.. 

We'd never fly to Disney, I'd be sick with the cost.. but we'll drive 18 hrs straight to get there.. we'll never stay on property and at the most 1 meal in the parks...(just too costly)... we'll bring snacks with us... We always stay in a nice little cottage like this >>








...(approx $80 a night) ...15 minutes from all the major Parks...has a stove, fridge, a loft the kids Love so much they fight over...so we have them take turns every trip.. a deck outside under some trees, a nice pool, I don't think we are missing much.. so we still get there.. we just take a back seat to "1st class" is all.. . our kids can see the value in this... . they know because we have older cars.. we can afford many other things along the way...


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## GTdad

I'm not in Ferrari territory, finances-wise, but I'm thinking about a Mazda Miata for my mid-life crisis car. My daughter used to have a Pontiac Solstice that was an absolute hoot to drive, and I wouldn't mind having a roadster of some sort.

Anybody ever own the Mazda?


----------



## 2&out

Yep. 2008 Grand Touring version - perfect for GTdad ! Mine had a sweet baseball glove interior. GREAT car. Fun and super reliable. They have been a top 10 Car & Driver voted car many many times and are currently. The conv. top is an engineering wonder - super quick and easy to put both down AND up. I SCCA cone raced mine a bunch and traded it to a guy as partial payment for his AC Cobra copy. He still has it as I do mine. I wouldn't hesitate a second to get another one.

Reason he traded me was the AC is a brutal bad ass beast and a handful. The Miata can hang right with it in the twisties and is A LOT more comfortable and easier to drive.


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## UMP

heartsbeating said:


> After seeing a Ferrari on the road the other day, it sparked a similar conversation between hubs and I. My perception on high end sports car guy is that he's so wealthy that the cost of this car is chump change to him, either that or he's stretched himself so thin to own the car. Either way, it's unrelatable for me - and likely only relatable to a niche group. That's not appealing to me.
> 
> Pickup truck guy might have a dog in the back, uses his vehicle for work or for his own home / community projects. That's more interesting to me. And I think I helped hubs sell me on the idea of him getting a pickup. Wait, how did that happen?! It makes sense where we live now. Utility. If it's not in the belt, it needs to be in the vehicle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The problem with this thinking is that more than likely the same guy who owns a Ferrari also owns a beat up pick up truck, like me. How can the same person be "unrelatable" one minute and then "more interesting" the other minute, based on what he drives?

You're not the only one who feels this way. I sometimes will not drive my nice cars because of the negative reactions I get. The older I get, the more the cars sit. My wife and I really have no friends because people take one look at our cars or home and turn the other way.

Even at Church, which we have attended for over 20 years, we have no friends. It's a little Church with just a 100 members or so. There is only one Mercedes in the parking lot and it's ours. People don't even say hi to us. Maybe it's because they think we are "unrelateable." When I married my wife who was poor, I told her that people will see us and what we have and they will turn away. She thought I was crazy. Not so much anymore.

The fact of the matter is, I am just like anyone else. I have the same insecurities and feel the same pain. Maybe my problems have more zeros attached to them, but they are problems none the less.

I put on my pants just like the next person does. Being buried in my Ferrari won't change the fact that I'm just as dead as the guy next to me in the pine box.


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## EllisRedding

Sometimes the type of car you drive can say a lot about you, sometimes it tells squat. One person I know has done very well with his career, made a lot of money. If you based your opinion solely on his car (he drives an older truck), your opinion would be way off. On the other side, someone rolled up in a Maserati at one of the local schools, and really the only reason I noticed was b/c they parked like a dbag. Sure enough, when the driver got out it was a parent I knew whom I had coached his son, and sure enough he is an actual dbag lol.


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## UMP

EllisRedding said:


> Sometimes the type of car you drive can say a lot about you, sometimes it tells squat. One person I know has done very well with his career, made a lot of money. If you based your opinion solely on his car (he drives an older truck), your opinion would be way off. On the other side, someone rolled up in a Maserati at one of the local schools, and really the only reason I noticed was b/c they parked like a dbag. Sure enough, when the driver got out it was a parent I knew whom I had coached his son, and sure enough he is an actual dbag lol.


Companies now can rent you a "supercar" by the hour so that you can feel like Cinderella, or a dbag, depending on your point of view. 

Is it pretentious to park a nice car far away from other cars in a parking lot? I do park well and straight though. I just like to stay away from the riff raff.
The Ferrari might catch an awful car disease or something if it's parked next to a vehicle under $20 K. :grin2:


----------



## EllisRedding

UMP said:


> Companies now can rent you a "supercar" by the hour so that you can feel like Cinderella, or a dbag, depending on your point of view.
> 
> Is it pretentious to park a nice car far away from other cars in a parking lot? I do park well and straight though. I just like to stay away from the riff raff.
> The Ferrari might catch an awful car disease or something if it's parked next to something under $20 K. :grin2:


Actually this guy parked along a designated fire zone along the curb of the school b/c that was the only way he could keep his car away from all the others lol. Same manner as I will see some people purposefully take up 2 parking spots.


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## UMP

EllisRedding said:


> Actually this guy parked along a designated fire zone along the curb of the school b/c that was the only way he could keep his car away from all the others lol. Same manner as I will see some people purposefully take up 2 parking spots.


That's asking for your car to be keyed. Not cool.

Seriously though, if you're at a massive Walmart parking lot and see a Ferrari parked by itself far from any other car, what does that convey to you?

Sometimes I feel like a diick, but I just want to prevent door dings.


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## kristin2349

GTdad said:


> I'm not in Ferrari territory, finances-wise, but I'm thinking about a Mazda Miata for my mid-life crisis car. My daughter used to have a Pontiac Solstice that was an absolute hoot to drive, and I wouldn't mind having a roadster of some sort.
> 
> Anybody ever own the Mazda?



My dad bought me one when they first came out and I loved that car! They were so much fun to drive, it was stick too. I'm getting ready to go back to a sports car, I'm single now so I'm going to ditch the "married suburban lady SUV". When I last took my SUV in for service they gave me a Maserati for a loaner and it was amazing. They have gotten me to buy a car several times this way and that baby was tempting.


----------



## GTdad

kristin2349 said:


> it was stick too


The only cars I've owned (not counting my wife's vehicles) since my first car 36 years ago have been manuals. They're getting harder to find, but I can't even imagine getting a roadster with an automatic transmission. Yuck.


----------



## GreyEcho

GTdad said:


> The only cars I've owned (not counting my wife's vehicles) since my first car 36 years ago have been manuals. They're getting harder to find, but I can't even imagine getting a roadster with an automatic transmission. Yuck.


Agreed.. I have always driven a stick.. I like to be in control, not a computer


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## kristin2349

UMP said:


> That's asking for your car to be keyed. Not cool.
> 
> *Seriously though, if you're at a massive Walmart parking lot and see a Ferrari parked by itself far from any other car, what does that convey to you?*
> 
> Sometimes I feel like a diick, but I just want to prevent door dings.


It conveys to me that you are smart and care about your car, and I'm usually parking way out there next to you. Parking lots, espcially WalMar are the worst! I started doing it when I bought a 911, and I still do it with my SUV. I drive black cars and I keep them in perfect shape dings make me crazy. I had most of my front end done in a 3M clear bra>


----------



## UMP

kristin2349 said:


> It conveys to me that you are smart and care about your car, and I'm usually parking way out there next to you. Parking lots, espcially WalMar are the worst! I started doing it when I bought a 911, and I still do it with my SUV. I drive black cars and I keep them in perfect shape dings make me crazy. I had most of my front end done in a 3M clear bra>


Never did the 3M thing. Feels too much like a condom:grin2:


----------



## kristin2349

GTdad said:


> The only cars I've owned (not counting my wife's vehicles) since my first car 36 years ago have been manuals. They're getting harder to find, but I can't even imagine getting a roadster with an automatic transmission. Yuck.



I bought a 911 a while back and my BIL really liked it so he bought one, it was an automatic! He was so proud that it was "rare" for a Porsche to be automatic:rofl: He of course had to special order the thing. I teased him mercilessly about that, still do once in a while.


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## GTdad

kristin2349 said:


> I bought a 911 a while back and my BIL really liked it so he bought one, it was an automatic! He was so proud that it was "rare" for a Porsche to be automatic:rofl: He of course had to special order the thing. I teased him mercilessly about that, still do once in a while.


Man. The ignominy. Dude deserved to be publicly shamed for that one. :rofl:


----------



## kristin2349

UMP said:


> Never did the 3M thing. Feels too much like a condom:grin2:



I tried it out and the full protection from road rash and bugs sold me, I'm a girl so condoms don't dull my sensation. >


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## uhtred

I have not problem with people who park away from other cars in order to avoid dings. They are the ones doing the extra walking, entirely their choice. I did that with cheap cars too -I don't want them dinged either and I like walking.

Obviously taking up extras spaces of obnoxious.





UMP said:


> Companies now can rent you a "supercar" by the hour so that you can feel like Cinderella, or a dbag, depending on your point of view.
> 
> Is it pretentious to park a nice car far away from other cars in a parking lot? I do park well and straight though. I just like to stay away from the riff raff.
> The Ferrari might catch an awful car disease or something if it's parked next to a vehicle under $20 K. :grin2:


----------



## EllisRedding

UMP said:


> That's asking for your car to be keyed. Not cool.
> 
> Seriously though, if you're at a massive Walmart parking lot and see a Ferrari parked by itself far from any other car, what does that convey to you?
> 
> Sometimes I feel like a diick, but I just want to prevent door dings.


Nothing wrong with that. Depending on the parking lot, I will park far away (not just for my car, but as long as the weather is ok it is great exercise)


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## 2&out

Um... stick shifts.... Please don't shoot the messenger... or do - I'm used to it  Want to buy a new Porsche 911 with a manual ? Guess your not going to buy a 911 then - they don't make them. 2016 last year - so better grab an unsold one off a dealer lot. All 911's ONLY come with automatics - even a twin turbo or GT2 or 3 - the hardest core ones. And you can't special order one either.

Times have changed.... hell - another 10 years actually DRIVING the car it will probably be an upcharge option !!

Prediction.... the next great tax grab - to drive a / your car. Their going to tax us to do so to discourage that less safe choice.


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## GTdad

2&out said:


> Um... stick shifts.... Please don't shoot the messenger... or do - I'm used to it  Want to buy a new Porsche 911 with a manual ? Guess your not going to buy a 911 then - they don't make them. 2016 last year - so better grab an unsold one off a dealer lot. All 911's ONLY come with automatics - even a twin turbo or GT2 or 3 - the hardest core ones. And you can't special order one either.


First, the choice between Trump and Clinton, now this. :frown2:


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## southbound

UMP said:


> The fact of the matter is, I am just like anyone else. I have the same insecurities and feel the same pain. Maybe my problems have more zeros attached to them, but they are problems none the less.
> 
> I put on my pants just like the next person does. Being buried in my Ferrari won't change the fact that I'm just as dead as the guy next to me in the pine box.


That's exactly as i see it, and if more people with money thought this way, there would be no stereotype of rich people being snobs.

You say you have no friends due to your financial situation; do you live in an area where you are the wealthiest person around and nobody else compares?


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## heartsbeating

UMP said:


> The problem with this thinking is that more than likely the same guy who owns a Ferrari also owns a beat up pick up truck, like me. How can the same person be "unrelatable" one minute and then "more interesting" the other minute, based on what he drives?


Quite easily. Chances are if someone owns a high end Ferrari, there's a whole picture that accompanies that. And like it or not, it can be alienating - as well as aspired to by some. If you drive a luxury car and enjoy it, whatever it means to you, then do your thing. I don't need convincing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Andy1001

The earlier poster who talked about the different types of wealth was correct.The new rich are the tech guys and the amounts can be staggering.I personally know three guys who own their own businesses and there profits are over a million A DAY.
A two hundred grand car does not cause them to lose any sleep.They start by buying the toys Ferrari,Lamborghini,Porsche etc but that's what they are,toys.Eventually they want comfort and that's when they go for Mercedes or even Rolls Royce.


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## SimplyAmorous

UMP said:


> The problem with this thinking is that more than likely the same guy who owns a Ferrari also owns a beat up pick up truck, like me. How can the same person be "unrelatable" one minute and then "more interesting" the other minute, based on what he drives?
> 
> You're not the only one who feels this way. I sometimes will not drive my nice cars because of the negative reactions I get. The older I get, the more the cars sit. My wife and I really have no friends because people take one look at our cars or home and turn the other way.


 UMP.... I'm reading your post.. I can't help but think.. REALLY? ... There has to be something more at play here... 

Regardless of the posts I have shared on this thread , being on the other side of personally caring about the sports car..... I would never purposely shy away, give attitude or try to exclude anyone , any family based on what they drive.. expensive or a dented bomb... I also understand there are vehicle enthusiasts (you are probably one!!).....just as some of us are Photography enthusiasts or whatever we enjoy (some hobbies are more expensive for sure!)...

Just speaking for myself personally.. if people show friendliness, they smile, they show themselves "approachable"... especially in church - my goodness, treating others around them with respect.. what is there not to like ?? I have ALWAYS gravitated to people like this.... don't we all ?? 

I very much appreciated your posts on this thread.. like @southbound said.. you sound like a wonderful person who cares more about what someone is made of - over anything else.. surely this comes out in your personality -when someone gets to KNOW YOU, as you express yourself.. I am thinking maybe you & she just haven't gotten close enough to anyone to let your light shine.. 



> *Even at Church, which we have attended for over 20 years, we have no friends. It's a little Church with just a 100 members or so. There is only one Mercedes in the parking lot and it's ours. People don't even say hi to us.* Maybe it's because they think we are "unrelateable." When I married my wife who was poor, I told her that people will see us and what we have and they will turn away. She thought I was crazy. Not so much anymore.


 I can't help but ask ... do you say "Hi".. have you tried to mingle, opened up some small talk (gotta start somewhere).... or maybe yourself & wife is on the introverted side...and this doesn't come easy for you ? 

What about Church dinners, where everyone is mingling... 20 years [email protected]#... you had to have made some friends ! Come on.. there are stories here...or why in the world would you continue going there ... it just wouldn't make sense.. Most would quit church pretty quickly if people were THAT cold ! It sure is making them sound bad [email protected]#

Where we went ... we had a great mixture of classes... from Doctors, Business owners, to those who were on Welfare.. our church was big on taking their Van every Sunday morning to those places where people didn't have a car to get there, getting them involved.. Vacation Bible school and all.. I always admired this about our church.. that when you came into those doors... we were all the same.. no matter where we came from.. 

But as all Churches go.. they'll fall short in some area...If anything. I felt ours was a little too strict with the discipline...getting involved in people's personal lives, knocking at their door if they got wind you were living with someone you were not married to... or pushing "getting saved" .... it offended many over the years to walk out those doors... 



> The fact of the matter is, I am just like anyone else. I have the same insecurities and feel the same pain. Maybe my problems have more zeros attached to them, but they are problems none the less.
> 
> I put on my pants just like the next person does. *Being buried in my Ferrari *won't change the fact that I'm just as dead as the guy next to me in the pine box.


 Your kidding here.. but there has been those who did this.. Thousands still flock to Sandra West's grave site where the socialite was buried in her Ferrari |

This guy in China too, shows the video of the car being put into the ground >> Man buried in his beloved car in bizarre funeral shows you CAN take it with you -


----------



## SimplyAmorous

heartsbeating said:


> Quite easily. Chances are if someone owns a high end Ferrari, there's a whole picture that accompanies that. And like it or not, it can be alienating - as well as aspired to by some. If you drive a luxury car and enjoy it, whatever it means to you, then do your thing. I don't need convincing.


 I think if we know someone personally.. it's different somehow...

Husband & myself was invited to go out to eat with some co-workers one morning .... 2 of them retired, one drove his shiny Red corvette there, another his orange camero, the 3rd just bought a brand spanking new Black beefed up Chevy (cost around $70,000)... we pull up in our blue smurf mobile & park between 2 of these... I remember us laughing about it even, when he told me that was so & so's Corvette (cost $95,000)... 

It wasn't long afterwards.. we jumped into our story about how our car is so dang BLUE...we all had a good laugh with these guys..then just moved on to another subject.... 

For years his co-workers would joke with husband how he just needed to get a "CRANK" ...he'd laugh right along with them... .but they knew him.. they respected him.. his work ethic for sure... so that was part of it.. just like these men... they were decent guys.. husband always liked working with them..(that's not something he says about everyone)...


----------



## heartsbeating

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think if we know someone personally.. it's different somehow...


I was answering the opening question. Based on car - not the person.

Although as for the Ferrari example, if someone is invited by the brand to purchase the car, that lifestyle and what it may encompass, is unrelatable to me. There are others who will share in that lifestyle and find it appealing. Being in the company of good people is enjoyable - whether experiences are relatable or not. 

But as for a relationship / dating, then compatibility with values and outlook on life (formed from our experiences), are important to me. 

As for my husband getting a pickup, it wouldn't have made sense for city living. Our experiences continue to shape us, our priorities shift, and the lifestyle we are creating and value together, has need for a pickup.


----------



## UMP

southbound said:


> That's exactly as i see it, and if more people with money thought this way, there would be no stereotype of rich people being snobs.
> 
> You say you have no friends due to your financial situation; do you live in an area where you are the wealthiest person around and nobody else compares?


Yes, and I live in the middle of nowhere. The fact of the matter is, I don't get along with the stereotypical "rich" person. All the ones I have met are dbags. The ones that are nice are just being nice to maneuver some business deal or are trying to get something from you. I grew up in the wealthiest part of town and hated it. I moved as far away as possible. The less fortunate people don't want to hang out either. I'm basically a poor soul in a wealthier mans body. That leaves me in no mans land.:smile2:

For example, a neighbor of mine that I gave a welcome to the neighborhood gift to will not even wave hello to me. Been this way for years. Out of the blue he calls me over while I'm cutting grass and is nice as pie talking my ear off. Toward the end of the conversation he starts talking about this new gun he bought and was wondering if he could shoot on my 24 acre property.

Oh well.


----------



## UMP

2&out said:


> Um... stick shifts.... Please don't shoot the messenger... or do - I'm used to it  Want to buy a new Porsche 911 with a manual ? Guess your not going to buy a 911 then - they don't make them. 2016 last year - so better grab an unsold one off a dealer lot. All 911's ONLY come with automatics - even a twin turbo or GT2 or 3 - the hardest core ones. And you can't special order one either.
> 
> Times have changed.... hell - another 10 years actually DRIVING the car it will probably be an upcharge option !!
> 
> Prediction.... the next great tax grab - to drive a / your car. Their going to tax us to do so to discourage that less safe choice.


Not so.
The 2016 911 Carrera comes with a manual transmission.
The 2016 911 R which is arguably the most visceral 911 to date ONLY comes in a manual.

If what you say does happen and it probably will, I will never buy a new sports car again.


----------



## kristin2349

UMP said:


> Not so.
> The 2016 911 Carrera comes with a manual transmission.
> The 2016 911 R which is arguably the most visceral 911 to date ONLY comes in a manual.
> 
> If what you say does happen and it probably will, I will never buy a new sports car again.



He's saying 2016 is the last year, IIRC the 17's have the triptronic flappy panel gearbox. My overdeveloped calf muscle in my left clutch leg will start to wither along with part of my soul.


----------



## wild jade

UMP said:


> Seriously though, if you're at a massive Walmart parking lot and see a Ferrari parked by itself far from any other car, what does that convey to you?
> 
> Sometimes I feel like a diick, but I just want to prevent door dings.


A Ferrari parked in a massive Walmart parking lot would say a lot to me about it's owner. And I have to say, I wouldn't find that relatable at all. At all. No matter how closely or far away from the other cars it was.


----------



## UMP

kristin2349 said:


> He's saying 2016 is the last year, IIRC the 17's have the triptronic flappy panel gearbox. My overdeveloped calf muscle in my left clutch leg will start to wither along with part of my soul.


That really sucks.


----------



## UMP

heartsbeating said:


> Quite easily. Chances are if someone owns a high end Ferrari, there's a whole picture that accompanies that. And like it or not, it can be alienating - as well as aspired to by some. If you drive a luxury car and enjoy it, whatever it means to you, then do your thing. I don't need convincing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True
It's depressing though. The older I get the harder it is to disregard the haters.
Sometimes it's just not worth the trouble.
It's VERY alienating. People won't even give you the time of day. It's like you're a leper just because of the car you drive. On the flip side, when I drive the old beat up Chevy truck I'm every ones friend.

I'll drive to the same gas station in the Ferrari and you can FEEL the hatred and anger. People purposely try to ignore you. Drive in 15 minutes later with the truck and everyone says hi and smiles, unless someone else pulls up in a Ferrari in which case they think I think they are a dbag. :grin2:


----------



## UMP

wild jade said:


> A Ferrari parked in a massive Walmart parking lot would say a lot to me about it's owner. And I have to say, I wouldn't find that relatable at all. At all. No matter how closely or far away from the other cars it was.


Why?
Walmart is a great place to buy things at great prices. Why would I pay more for something if I can get it for less? Sams club is my favorite and I drive the Ferrari there too.

How does that make me not "relatable?" 

I am genuinely curious.


----------



## UMP

SimplyAmorous said:


> UMP.... I'm reading your post.. I can't help but think.. REALLY? ... There has to be something more at play here...
> 
> Regardless of the posts I have shared on this thread , being on the other side of personally caring about the sports car..... I would never purposely shy away, give attitude or try to exclude anyone , any family based on what they drive.. expensive or a dented bomb... I also understand there are vehicle enthusiasts (you are probably one!!).....just as some of us are Photography enthusiasts or whatever we enjoy (some hobbies are more expensive for sure!)...
> 
> Just speaking for myself personally.. if people show friendliness, they smile, they show themselves "approachable"... especially in church - my goodness, treating others around them with respect.. what is there not to like ?? I have ALWAYS gravitated to people like this.... don't we all ??
> *No, when you step out of a Ferrari or Mercedes people WILL NOT EVEN LOOK IN YOUR DIRECTION. You are a very rare person.*
> 
> I very much appreciated your posts on this thread.. like @southbound said.. you sound like a wonderful person who cares more about what someone is made of - over anything else.. surely this comes out in your personality -when someone gets to KNOW YOU, as you express yourself.. I am thinking maybe you & she just haven't gotten close enough to anyone to let your light shine.. *How can you get close to someone who won't give you the time of day? As I said in a previous post, I don't get along with any wealthy people I know. They are all fake or are nice because they are positioning themselves for something or for some reason. So, we moved to a less populated small town away from the big city. It's a poor, backwoods blue collar town with subsidized housing only a couple miles from my home. I don't relate to wealthy people and the less fortunate won't give me a chance.*
> 
> I can't help but ask ... do you say "Hi".. have you tried to mingle, opened up some small talk (gotta start somewhere).... or maybe yourself & wife is on the introverted side...and this doesn't come easy for you ? *Yes, we try but it's just small talk. We have had people over to our home from Church, but no one reciprocates. Maybe they are embarrassed about their home compared to ours. As an example we have had the associate pastor over several times and he has never invited us to his home in almost 20 years. Add to that our introverted nature and everyone thinks we're being diickish.*
> 
> What about Church dinners, where everyone is mingling... 20 years [email protected]#... you had to have made some friends ! Come on.. there are stories here...or why in the world would you continue going there ... it just wouldn't make sense.. Most would quit church pretty quickly if people were THAT cold ! It sure is making them sound bad [email protected]#*We go there for the message. We love the senior pastor. He is a unique guy. He held a regular job while pastoring. Owned his own real estate company. He has been there for over 40 years. *
> 
> Where we went ... we had a great mixture of classes... from Doctors, Business owners, to those who were on Welfare.. our church was big on taking their Van every Sunday morning to those places where people didn't have a car to get there, getting them involved.. Vacation Bible school and all.. I always admired this about our church.. that when you came into those doors... we were all the same.. no matter where we came from.. *Our Church is in a very bad part of town. I actually do armed guard duty every 2nd Sunday because people break into cars or steal things out of the Church during service. Hard to be all smiles when your standing in a parking lot with a gun in your pocket, on "duty" looking for nefarious activity.*
> 
> But as all Churches go.. they'll fall short in some area...If anything. I felt ours was a little too strict with the discipline...getting involved in people's personal lives, knocking at their door if they got wind you were living with someone you were not married to... or pushing "getting saved" .... it offended many over the years to walk out those doors...
> 
> Your kidding here.. but there has been those who did this.. Thousands still flock to Sandra West's grave site where the socialite was buried in her Ferrari |
> *Yes, kidding*
> 
> This guy in China too, shows the video of the car being put into the ground >>
> *Beyond stupid!*
> Man buried in his beloved car in bizarre funeral shows you CAN take it with you -


----------



## john117

Not many people can outshift a good automatic... When you see supercars like the Skyline GTR only available with a flappy, you gotta wonder. By the time you add 4wd to the mix the human element is way out of their league complexity wise IMHO.


----------



## uhtred

Again, there is a lot of variation. Some people buy because of a brand, others despite it.

I typically drive compacts. For my last car I decided to try a few nicer cars. I've always hated the BMW "image", but decided to test drive anyway. It turned out I really liked how it drove so I bought one. I don't like the image of the brand but I liked the product. 

I could easily imagine wealthier person doing that with a Ferrari. Test drive one just to see, and find that it really is very nice. If they have the money to comfortably afford it, then why not? They may not be trying to own a FERRARI, but just want own a nice car and the one they prefer is a Ferrari. 

If you go to any business airport you will see lots of biz-jets. A bizjet is $10-$100Million. Costs maybe $2000 to $50,000/ hour to fly. Just upgrading the interior costs more than a Lamborghini. For someone with that much money, why not buy whatever car they feel like. 


I like the "gates dollars game". Compare your net worth to Bill Gates's $50B (or whatever it is not). Imagine you are worth $500K.  He has 100,000 times as much money as you do. So take everything you see and divide the cost by 100,000. A Ferrari costs him as much as a dish of ice-cream costs you. 







heartsbeating said:


> I was answering the opening question. Based on car - not the person.
> 
> Although as for the Ferrari example, if someone is invited by the brand to purchase the car, that lifestyle and what it may encompass, is unrelatable to me. There are others who will share in that lifestyle and find it appealing. Being in the company of good people is enjoyable - whether experiences are relatable or not.
> 
> But as for a relationship / dating, then compatibility with values and outlook on life (formed from our experiences), are important to me.
> 
> As for my husband getting a pickup, it wouldn't have made sense for city living. Our experiences continue to shape us, our priorities shift, and the lifestyle we are creating and value together, has need for a pickup.


----------



## wild jade

UMP said:


> Why?
> Walmart is a great place to buy things at great prices. Why would I pay more for something if I can get it for less? Sams club is my favorite and I drive the Ferrari there too.
> 
> How does that make me not "relatable?"
> 
> I am genuinely curious.


Sure, I'll reveal my biases! :smile2:

Personally, I will not shop at Walmart. Period. However I do completely understand why other people do -- particularly if they are short on money. 

However, someone with a Ferrari is clearly not short on money. So a Ferrari in a Walmart parking lot says to me that the owner values flash, status, and appearances much more than they value people, justice, sustainability, and human rights. To which I cannot relate.


----------



## UMP

heartsbeating said:


> Although as for the Ferrari example, if someone is invited by the brand to purchase the car, that lifestyle and what it may encompass, is unrelatable to me. There are others who will share in that lifestyle and find it appealing. Being in the company of good people is enjoyable - whether experiences are relatable or not.


To me the Ferrari is NOT a lifestyle at all. It's just a car.


----------



## wild jade

UMP said:


> As I said in a previous post, I don't get along with any wealthy people I know. They are all fake or are nice because they are positioning themselves for something or for some reason. So, we moved to a less populated small town away from the big city. It's a poor, backwoods blue collar town with subsidized housing only a couple miles from my home. I don't relate to wealthy people and the less fortunate won't give me a chance.


So you don't get along with wealthy people because they are all fake, or not nice, not relatable?

????


----------



## UMP

wild jade said:


> Sure, I'll reveal my biases! :smile2:
> 
> Personally, I will not shop at Walmart. Period. However I do completely understand why other people do -- particularly if they are short on money.
> 
> However, someone with a Ferrari is clearly not short on money. So a Ferrari in a Walmart parking lot says to me that the owner values flash, status, and appearances much more than they value people, justice, sustainability, and human rights. To which I cannot relate.


How sad.


----------



## UMP

wild jade said:


> So you don't get along with wealthy people because they are all fake, or not nice, not relatable?
> 
> ????


The rich people I grew up with and have known since high school. Of all those I have not one friend. I don't fit in, for some reason. Maybe it's because I shop at Walmart while driving the Ferrari, but not for the same reasons you give. :grin2:


----------



## wild jade

UMP said:


> How sad.


Sad? Why? To me, if you can blow that kind of money on a car, then you can afford to spend a little more to support ethical and sustainable business practice. Which is something that is very, very important to me.

I find it interesting that you have no qualms about judging wealthy people but find it wrong or sad that someone else might have their own biases.


----------



## Betrayedone

UMP said:


> True
> It's depressing though. The older I get the harder it is to disregard the haters.
> Sometimes it's just not worth the trouble.
> It's VERY alienating. People won't even give you the time of day. It's like you're a leper just because of the car you drive. On the flip side, when I drive the old beat up Chevy truck I'm every ones friend.
> 
> I'll drive to the same gas station in the Ferrari and you can FEEL the hatred and anger. People purposely try to ignore you. Drive in 15 minutes later with the truck and everyone says hi and smiles, unless someone else pulls up in a Ferrari in which case they think I think they are a dbag. :grin2:


I'm not buying it..........Yes, you MAY feel the hatred as you say but something tells me it's not a result of the car that you drive. If I go somewhere with a fancy car people generally come up to me and want want to talk about it or take a picture. Perhaps you are putting out some kind of negative vibe and it's not really about the car at all. Just sayin' Perhaps your personality makes you unapproachable.


----------



## UMP

Betrayedone said:


> I'm not buying it..........Yes, you MAY feel the hatred as you say but something tells me it's not a result of the car that you drive. If I go somewhere with a fancy car people generally come up to me and want want to talk about it or take a picture. Perhaps you are putting out some kind of negative vibe and it's not really about the car at all. Just sayin' Perhaps your personality makes you unapproachable.


Then why do I suddenly become approachable when driving a beat up Chevy pick up?


----------



## john117

UMP said:


> 2014 Mini Cooper S Countryman. daughter. If I drive it I'm perceived as gay.
> If daughter drives she is perceived as a spoiled rich kid.


There's a few Mini Cooper's in the parking lot here, I don't think they're perceived as such. I've been driving mine for a few years now and haven't been propositioned yet 

DD1 drives a Honda Fit. Wanted a Fiat 500 but it had to pass the family of four to Chicago test.


----------



## dubsey

The Cooper S is a driver's car. Anyone who would think less of someone for driving any car has their own issues, really.


----------



## UMP

wild jade said:


> Sad? Why? To me, if you can blow that kind of money on a car, then you can afford to spend a little more to support ethical and sustainable business practice. Which is something that is very, very important to me.
> 
> I find it interesting that you have no qualms about judging wealthy people but find it wrong or sad that someone else might have their own biases.


I really don't want to get into a discussion "supporting ethical and sustainable business practices" based on the fact that I drove a Ferrari to a Walmart to buy something. Sorry.

Regarding the "judgment" of wealthy people, I AM wealthy, therefore I have a free pass. :grin2:

Although, the truly wealthy would laugh at my "wealth." 
There is wealthy and then there is *WEALTHY*

Compared to some I know, I have nothing. On the flip side, if you live in the U.S., for example, and are breathing you are wealthy as compared to a large chunk of the rest of the world.

I guess I'll just get rid of the cars and buy a bicycle. Then I'll REALLY piss off some people:grin2:

Just remember, the next nice car you see at Walmart might just be a guy who's trying to find a large piece puzzle for his mentally handicapped daughter and just wanted to enjoy a nice Sunday drive down the road while he was at it. He had no idea he was helping destroy the planet and all it's inhabitants while doing so. Sorry.


----------



## UMP

john117 said:


> There's a few Mini Cooper's in the parking lot here, I don't think they're perceived as such. I've been driving mine for a few years now and haven't been propositioned yet
> 
> DD1 drives a Honda Fit. Wanted a Fiat 500 but it had to pass the family of four to Chicago test.


That's because you live in a college town. Drive the mini cooper in the back woods of Tennessee and see how you're perceived.:grin2: Proceed at your own risk!

I actually had a two guys scream "GAY" and laughed at me when I drove it. It's my daughters car.


----------



## wild jade

UMP said:


> I really don't want to get into a discussion "supporting ethical and sustainable business practices" based on the fact that I drove a Ferrari to a Walmart to buy something. Sorry.
> 
> Regarding the "judgment" of wealthy people, I AM wealthy, therefore I have a free pass. :grin2:


No need to. You asked me why I wouldn't find it relatable, and so I told you. 

Personally I don't judge people for how much money they do or don't have. But I might judge them on what they do or not support. To me that's an indicator of values, much more than actual wealth.

FWIW, my judgements are also not necessarily fixed and unwavering. They are just judgements. I certainly wouldn't, for example, put down all wealthy people just because I knew a few that were *******s. Or because I thought I had a free pass because I was insulting myself too. :grin2:


----------



## UMP

wild jade said:


> No need to. You asked me why I wouldn't find it relatable, and so I told you.
> 
> Personally I don't judge people for how much money they do or don't have. But I might judge them on what they do or not support. To me that's an indicator of values, much more than actual wealth.
> 
> FWIW, my judgements are also not necessarily fixed and unwavering. They are just judgements. I certainly wouldn't, for example, put down all wealthy people just because I knew a few that were *******s. Or because I thought I had a free pass because I was insulting myself too. :grin2:



Well, 
I'll tell you one thing. I NEVER in my wildest dreams thought I could evoke such feelings by simply driving a Ferrari to Walmart.

This falls into the category of "you learn something new everyday."

Thank you!


----------



## EllisRedding

wild jade said:


> Sad? Why? To me, if you can blow that kind of money on a car, then you can afford to spend a little more to support ethical and sustainable business practice. Which is something that is very, very important to me.
> 
> .


So where do you draw the line? Is there a certain income level where you can completely ignore ethical/sustainable business practices, but once you go above that level you are supposed to do due diligence on every product/service you purchase? Of course, then it brings up the question on what constitutes ethical/sustainable business practices (which everyone will have their own opinions on).


----------



## uhtred

I mostly agree, but be aware that not everyone has the same idea of critical ethical issues. For instance where practical I buy gas at Chevron because I think that they have a better environmental record than other oil companies. But I understand that other people working from other information may avoid them due to some other equally valid ethical reason.

I don't happen to shop at Walmart. Not a conscious choice, just never came up. Now that you mention it I remember that they have a reputation for treating their employees very badly, and if I think if that I'll continue to avoid them. Its something though that I had forgotten until you mentioned it.






wild jade said:


> Sad? Why? To me, if you can blow that kind of money on a car, then you can afford to spend a little more to support ethical and sustainable business practice. Which is something that is very, very important to me.
> 
> I find it interesting that you have no qualms about judging wealthy people but find it wrong or sad that someone else might have their own biases.


----------



## UMP

uhtred said:


> Its generally believed, or at least implied in advertising, that frequently men buy cars to impress women. So.... does it work? Does the type of car a man drives change you opinion of him, and if so, how?


16 pages in, I am certain of ONE thing:

I don't have a chance in hell with WildJade if I drive a Ferrari and I don't own a Prius so it looks like I'm shiit out of luck! :wink2:

It depends on who you want to impress and where you do your shopping with said vehicle.

Sorry Wildjade, I could not resist. All in good fun! :smile2:


----------



## UMP

uhtred said:


> I mostly agree, but be aware that not everyone has the same idea of critical ethical issues. For instance where practical I buy gas at Chevron because I think that they have a better environmental record than other oil companies. But I understand that other people working from other information may avoid them due to some other equally valid ethical reason.
> 
> I don't happen to shop at Walmart. Not a conscious choice, just never came up. Now that you mention it I remember that they have a reputation for treating their employees very badly, and if I think if that I'll continue to avoid them. Its something though that I had forgotten until you mentioned it.


Come to think of it I remember a story an executive at Bridgestone Tire told me about Walmart. The CEO of Bridgestone was at a meeting with Walmart to determine the price Walmart would charge for Bridgestone tires. Walmart basically said "if you don't lower your price to xyz for your tires we will change every tire on our truck fleet to something else." The CEO did not say a word, got up and left. Apparently Walmart has one of the largest trucking fleets in the world. Good for him, because that's dirty business.

However, is it going to stop me from shopping there if I need something?

Apparently not. It's just not something that's at the forefront of my mind. Maybe that's wrong, but it's the truth. 

I'm more concerned with my ailing parents, psychotic sister, getting my kids through college alive, caring for my mentally handicapped daughter, my heart disease, paying my taxes, making sure my business stays afloat so I can pay my employees, and 1000 other important things.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

UMP said:


> Yes, and I live in the middle of nowhere. The fact of the matter is, I don't get along with the stereotypical "rich" person. All the ones I have met are dbags. The ones that are nice are just being nice to maneuver some business deal or are trying to get something from you. I grew up in the wealthiest part of town and hated it. I moved as far away as possible. The less fortunate people don't want to hang out either. I'm basically a poor soul in a wealthier mans body. That leaves me in no mans land.:smile2:
> 
> For example, a neighbor of mine that I gave a welcome to the neighborhood gift to will not even wave hello to me. Been this way for years. Out of the blue he calls me over while I'm cutting grass and is nice as pie talking my ear off. Toward the end of the conversation he starts talking about this new gun he bought and was wondering if he could shoot on my 24 acre property.
> 
> Oh well.


UMP your situation baffles me some.. it's like you are a "square peg trying to fit into a round hole" -wherever you go, or it is just that you are perceiving it this way because you long for authentic friendships from others but it hasn't came to be...it seems many people are just too busy today...if one doesn't make a concerted effort to stay in touch.. friendships are hard to get off the ground at all.. no matter who we are.

I have to wonder what it was like in high school for you, in college, on the job...were friends made here? What sort of people do you enjoy.. what common interests ? 

I "get" the wanting to use others land.... we have acreage also...some can be rather pushy for favors to hunt,..... I have even gotten a little rude over it...I'm not against hunting.. just very "safety conscience" having children & all... ... I've witnessed too much carelessness.. like people stopping their truck at the top of our driveway ... our kids playing in the yard down here... while they pull out a rifle aiming to shoot a ground hog , it's still aiming in our direction -even if more up the hill.... the gall of some..... the lust to shoot.. I just shake my head...while doing a lot of swearing... 

It sounds a more suburban area to live.. where there is more of a mixture of the classes - would be better for you..


----------



## SimplyAmorous

UMP said:


> I'm more concerned with my ailing parents, psychotic sister, getting my kids through college alive, caring for my mentally handicapped daughter, my heart disease, paying my taxes, *making sure my business stays afloat so I can pay my employees,* and 1000 other important things.


I have a question.. does your employees genuinely LIKE YOU ? Have you built a respectable reputation in your area - or had some set backs here .. some employee drama along the way... you did say it was a small blue collar town....a disgruntled employee could cause a lot of damage to a boss's reputation... Could any of this be a part of it ? 

I just can't see this all being over a Ferrari.


----------



## john117

Do you pay decent wages and treat your employees well? 

I used to have a legit CEO neighbor, of a small public traded company in health care. He was always home at 5 to his wife, and off to the golf course at 5:05. He was getting paid a couple mil a year, more than everyone else in the company combined. He proceeded to run the company to the ground. Then he sold out for pennies on the dollar to one of the big health companies. He and a few other execs cashed out, and most of the people were laid off... 

A year later he sued the company that bought them claiming his golden parachute wasn't golden enough. He lost and moved.

That's what many people associate with McMansion homes and pricy cars.


----------



## uhtred

Some people do react badly in various ways to wealth. I was at a wedding of a college friend of mine. Another friend "K" had gotten very wealthy (owns a biz-jet) in an internet startup. We were all sitting around the dinner table talking, and one guy "J" asked K something about "do you know anything about airships". OK, K was an avid pilot, so not too strange. K says "not really ". J then pulls out a set of papers with a business proposal for a airship tour company that he is hoping K will fund. This is at a WEDDING!

I brought another friend of mine to one of K's parties. Next thing I know, this guy is looking for money for a project. WTF! I drag him away and never bring him back. 

I do understand though how wealthy people can uneasy around others. Its just the actions of a small number of really obnoxious people.


----------



## southbound

UMP said:


> How can you get close to someone who won't give you the time of day? As I said in a previous post, I don't get along with any wealthy people I know. They are all fake or are nice because they are positioning themselves for something or for some reason. So, we moved to a less populated small town away from the big city. It's a poor, backwoods blue collar town with subsidized housing only a couple miles from my home. I don't relate to wealthy people and the less fortunate won't give me a chance.


Well, if it's not something else at play with "you," it must just be a weird culture toward wealthier people where you live. I live in a rural area, and the wealthy there socialize with the not so wealthy just fine.

I'll try to word this correctly: I don't want it to sound contradictory to what I have already written. I'm sure if a rich woman in my area lost her husband, she wouldn't be looking for a custodian to date, and the local bum probably doesn't go to the bank president's house every weekend for lunch, but everyone is on a friendly basis in public, social situations, especially at church; that one really floors me. 

As a matter of fact, people in my area love to socialize with a wealthier person who just acts like a "regular person." People seem to like the wealthier people who are "likeable." I can think of one doctor in particular whose house is getting close to something one would imagine a movie star living in, but everybody talks about how they like going to him because he just seems like a "regular guy."



UMP said:


> No, when you step out of a Ferrari or Mercedes people WILL NOT EVEN LOOK IN YOUR DIRECTION. You are a very rare person.


I'd have no trouble looking at all unless he had proven he thought he was too good for everybody and had his nose in the air; it sounds like a different culture there. 



UMP said:


> Add to that our introverted nature and everyone thinks we're being diickish.


I can certainly relate to being an introvert; I am one. maybe that has a little to do with it. Maybe your introvert personality is interpreted as being a snob. 



UMP said:


> Our Church is in a very bad part of town. I actually do armed guard duty every 2nd Sunday because people break into cars or steal things out of the Church during service. Hard to be all smiles when your standing in a parking lot with a gun in your pocket, on "duty" looking for nefarious activity.


The congregation apparently has some confidence in you if you help with the guard duty. If we had to do that, there would be a few that would get passed over because we wouldn't feel they could handle it.


----------



## wild jade

UMP said:


> 16 pages in, I am certain of ONE thing:
> 
> I don't have a chance in hell with WildJade if I drive a Ferrari and I don't own a Prius so it looks like I'm shiit out of luck! :wink2:
> 
> It depends on who you want to impress and where you do your shopping with said vehicle.
> 
> Sorry Wildjade, I could not resist. All in good fun! :smile2:


No worries. All in good fun. FTR, though, a Prius is not required. Indeed, I've never dated a guy who had one. I have, however, dated guys that only had a bicycle. :wink2:


----------



## wild jade

uhtred said:


> I mostly agree, but be aware that not everyone has the same idea of critical ethical issues. For instance where practical I buy gas at Chevron because I think that they have a better environmental record than other oil companies. But I understand that other people working from other information may avoid them due to some other equally valid ethical reason.
> 
> I don't happen to shop at Walmart. Not a conscious choice, just never came up. Now that you mention it I remember that they have a reputation for treating their employees very badly, and if I think if that I'll continue to avoid them. Its something though that I had forgotten until you mentioned it.


I agree. It's not easy to reward corporate social responsibility, and there's so many potential factors and issues to consider. But Walmart is one company that I particularly avoid because not only do they exploit their own employees, they also squeeze other businesses that are trying to be more ethical. 

And really, it was the juxtaposition of Ferrari and Walmart that really stood out for me.


----------



## wild jade

EllisRedding said:


> So where do you draw the line? Is there a certain income level where you can completely ignore ethical/sustainable business practices, but once you go above that level you are supposed to do due diligence on every product/service you purchase? Of course, then it brings up the question on what constitutes ethical/sustainable business practices (which everyone will have their own opinions on).


I'm not drawing any lines. I try to do my due diligence on where I spend my money, and what I support. And yes, agreed, it's not easy -- as I said to uhtred, there's lots of factors and issues to consider. 

Some companies, IMHO, should be avoided altogether. But I also recognize that people without a lot of money have to stretch it as far as they can, and so have fewer choices where to shop. It's not that I would say that they should ignore ethical or sustainable business practices, it's just that I understand that it is hard, and the less money you have to play with, the harder it is.


----------



## UMP

I'm just too introverted so everyone thinks I'm a snob. A fancy car just magnifies the perception. I hate small talk.
Been that way my entire life.
I seem to get along better with Canadians for some reason.

A Canadian stranger would be more likely to look at me get out of a nice car and say "ey do you think your shiit don't stink?" and then I would laugh and speak with him.

I don't think anyone wants to be perceived as a dbag, but I'm afraid it can't be helped.
It's sad to me because I feel that I'm being judged negatively just because of the car I drive. Some may say I should not drive a fancy car because of such and such, and I can understand that. Unfortunately, I just love driving different cars. It's really my only hobby. Working on them and driving them. If I could, I would have 50 cars. My addiction is stronger than my conscience in this regard. My garage is actually larger in square footage than my house.

I really don't know how to change this other than not driving a fancy car. If I try to wave to everyone, they'll think I'm showing off. If I stay quiet people think I'm a snob.

It's a lose lose situation really.

Let me ask the group a question. Let's say you are in a Ferrari driving in the right lane doing the speed limit on the highway. A car full of people starts to pass, gets up next to you and slows down to match your speed. All the people are staring at you, getting out their phones and taking pictures. What should you do? I feel so awkward when this happens and it happens all the time. Or, same situation but they are all flipping you off. This happens too.


----------



## john117

Move to Miami Beach. Such cars are commonplace there . Within an hour's walk for ice cream we saw numerous Ferrari's, Lambos, high end Porsches and Benz AMG and a Veyron or two.


----------



## UMP

john117 said:


> Move to Miami Beach. Such cars are commonplace there . Within an hour's walk for ice cream we saw numerous Ferrari's, Lambos, high end Porsches and Benz AMG and a Veyron or two.


Purposely left my home town to avoid all of that.

I live in an area where people still burn their own garbage.

I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.


----------



## dubsey

UMP said:


> I'm just too introverted so everyone thinks I'm a snob. A fancy car just magnifies the perception. I hate small talk.
> Been that way my entire life.
> I seem to get along better with Canadians for some reason.
> 
> A Canadian stranger would be more likely to look at me get out of a nice car and say "ey do you think your shiit don't stink?" and then I would laugh and speak with him.


that's me, to a T. Not much you can do, it's just part of being an introvert. Where I live, most people who live here are from here, so it made it worse for many years. Been here 10 years, still feel like an outsider sometimes.



UMP said:


> I really don't know how to change this other than not driving a fancy car. If I try to wave to everyone, they'll think I'm showing off. If I stay quiet people think I'm a snob.
> 
> It's a lose lose situation really.
> 
> Let me ask the group a question. Let's say you are in a Ferrari driving in the right lane doing the speed limit on the highway. A car full of people starts to pass, gets up next to you and slows down to match your speed. All the people are staring at you, getting out their phones and taking pictures. What should you do? I feel so awkward when this happens and it happens all the time. Or, same situation but they are all flipping you off. This happens too.


I have a replica shelby I literally made with my dad. I made it to be a driver's car. I don't go to shows (to show it), the engine isn't all shiny or anything. But, it's my favorite car, not just because it looks nice, but because I did it with my Dad - who was a horrible alcoholic and father when I was a kid. It will always be a symbol of how far we've come to me.

I can not drive it anywhere without someone taking a picture. I've taken friends for rides, or just let them go drive it around, and most of them don't like it. You have zero anonymity in it, and that really bothers some people, and yeah, people just assume you're a dbag because of it, and there's not much you can do, but really, it's their problem, not yours.


----------



## UMP

dubsey said:


> I can not drive it anywhere without someone taking a picture. I've taken friends for rides, or just let them go drive it around, and most of them don't like it. You have zero anonymity in it, and that really bothers some people, and yeah, people just assume you're a dbag because of it, and there's not much you can do, but really, it's their problem, not yours.


I know, but it wears on you.
I sometimes have people try and follow me and I have to lose them on the roads before I get to my house.

How about that new Shelby GT350R. What a machine!!


----------



## tripod

So, here's the definitive scientific word, from no less an authority than Men's Health in an article "How to make Yourself More Attractive to Hot Women: 


"4. Borrow a Hot Set of Wheels
See if you can take your friend’s luxury car for a spin: In a U.K. study, women dug men who sat inside a Bentley Continental way more than when the same guys were chilling inside a Ford Fiesta—even though their posture and facial expressions remained the same.

"Chalk it up to status, the researchers believe. Expensive rides show that a man has lots of resources—and may be willing to “invest” in a woman’s well-being, too.

Need a recommendation? How about the 2015 Mercedes-Benz S550."

And, I prefer my M6 to the Benz....


----------



## UMP

tripod said:


> So, here's the definitive scientific word, from no less an authority than Men's Health in an article "How to make Yourself More Attractive to Hot Women:
> 
> 
> "4. Borrow a Hot Set of Wheels
> See if you can take your friend’s luxury car for a spin: In a U.K. study, women dug men who sat inside a Bentley Continental way more than when the same guys were chilling inside a Ford Fiesta—even though their posture and facial expressions remained the same.
> 
> "Chalk it up to status, the researchers believe. Expensive rides show that a man has lots of resources—and may be willing to “invest” in a woman’s well-being, too.
> 
> Need a recommendation? How about the 2015 Mercedes-Benz S550."
> 
> And, I prefer my M6 to the Benz....


Oooo, I love that M6.
One of my dream cars is a restored 1972 BMW 3.0CS, ice blue with a manual.


----------



## dubsey

UMP said:


> I know, but it wears on you.
> I sometimes have people try and follow me and I have to lose them on the roads before I get to my house.
> 
> How about that new Shelby GT350R. What a machine!!


Oh, I agree. You have to be in the right mood to drive it, and you never know what you'll get. I've come out of Target to kids sitting in it, which doesn't bother me, but I've also come out to stuff dumped/thrown inside of it since it has no top.

A couple years ago, I actually laminated a sign I leave on the dash that says "feel free to look, touch, sit in. I don't mind. Just be aware of belt buckles, snaps, zippers on pants & jackets especially with your kids."

it seems to have helped a bit.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

uhtred said:


> Some people do react badly in various ways to wealth. I was at a wedding of a college friend of mine. Another friend "K" had gotten very wealthy (owns a biz-jet) in an internet startup. We were all sitting around the dinner table talking, and one guy "J" asked K something about "do you know anything about airships". OK, K was an avid pilot, so not too strange. K says "not really ". J then pulls out a set of papers with a business proposal for a airship tour company that he is hoping K will fund. This is at a WEDDING!
> 
> I brought another friend of mine to one of K's parties. Next thing I know, this guy is looking for money for a project. WTF! I drag him away and never bring him back.
> 
> I do understand though how wealthy people can uneasy around others. Its just the actions of a small number of really obnoxious people.


And this is just another reason why the wealthy want very little to do with those of lessor means, because they have come into contact with too many "J"s & those like your other friend - thinking "Opportunity -Opportunity" then they boundary push figuring -- "hey they got the money, throw some my way!"... 

You know what they say.. when you win the lottery.... all those people who never gave you the time of day.. suddenly they want to be your best friend... That's







..... the friends we have in the worst of times, who were consistently there for us....don't forget them.. they are genuine.. 

The most annoying I'd personally be around someone who had some sort of title, of great importance (this doesn't even have to involve wealth -more about some specialty of experience)... like a Dermatologist or even meeting a Geologist, or even someone traveling in a circus (what a lifestyle!) ...if I had the opportunity to chat with them, socialize.. I would be tempted to pick their brain on their field of knowledge, their experiences... that's about it..



UMP said:


> I don't think anyone wants to be perceived as a dbag, but I'm afraid it can't be helped.


 Just remember those who drive around in older vehicles aren't looked upon any better.. maybe the paint job is faded, some dings, you know many immediately think ..."Wow, he must be dirt poor driving that bomb ".. let's say they never talked about their cars & decided to meet, him pulling up for a date in something we'd drive.... she'd be thinking ..."







crappy car ! How can I get out of this date without offending him?".... 

Which shoes would you rather have on? 

On the way back from a vacation myself & husband took.. I told him I wanted to stop at  Nemacolin Woodlands Resort & Spa to check it out, we were driving past.. it's a place I read about on Trip Advisor, great reviews.. it was beautiful.. very high class.. we couldn't help but notice every brand new shiny car in the lot.. along the side walks.. immediately we were embarrassed of our vehicle, husband started joking with me or half joking if any guards were there, they'd probably pull us over.. we just didn't fit there.. I said if we ever stayed there.. we'd have to rent a car.. .. then we laughed about our "painted tin can" driving away.. it's still not anything I envy....but I recognize that others would surly look down on us - in comparison.. while to us.. we're just happy / thankful we have a reliable car & can take these little vacations.. 

But yeah...I decided that place is just too high class for us.. 

You want to hear how car illiterate I am ... if a man was trying to impress me with a vehicle, I'd be the biggest let down he's ever met.....I don't even know the difference between a Ferrari & a Camero .... I'm sure I've seen far more Camaro's in my time.... husband was telling me last night when I asked ...HOW MUCH MORE COSTLY these Ferrari's are, well over $100,000.. which I wasn't even aware of ..... now if I seen some car with the door opening up to the sky.. I believe those are Lamborghini's...that's about all I know about them.


----------



## wild jade

UMP said:


> Let me ask the group a question. Let's say you are in a Ferrari driving in the right lane doing the speed limit on the highway. A car full of people starts to pass, gets up next to you and slows down to match your speed. All the people are staring at you, getting out their phones and taking pictures. What should you do? I feel so awkward when this happens and it happens all the time. Or, same situation but they are all flipping you off. This happens too.


A couple of suggestions. 

Move locations, so that the car doesn't stand out.

Paint it so that it looks like a rusted out garbage heap so that it looks less obviously hot, but drives the same.

Get a bumper sticker that says that your other car is a Kia.


----------



## wild jade

Just a follow up thought. I have to say I'm very surprised to hear these stories of people not liking or not wanting to talk to you because of a hot car. Honestly, I though the reverse was true, and that hot cars were the way to pick up women, impress all your friends, and so on. As others have mentioned, the rich often find themselves with a whole bunch of "friends" who love them simply because they're rich. 

And so it surprises me that the experience here is so different. Could it just be a location thing?


----------



## southbound

UMP said:


> I'm just too introverted so everyone thinks I'm a snob. A fancy car just magnifies the perception. I hate small talk.
> Been that way my entire life.
> I seem to get along better with Canadians for some reason.
> 
> A Canadian stranger would be more likely to look at me get out of a nice car and say "ey do you think your shiit don't stink?" and then I would laugh and speak with him.
> 
> I don't think anyone wants to be perceived as a dbag, but I'm afraid it can't be helped.
> It's sad to me because I feel that I'm being judged negatively just because of the car I drive. Some may say I should not drive a fancy car because of such and such, and I can understand that. Unfortunately, I just love driving different cars. It's really my only hobby. Working on them and driving them. If I could, I would have 50 cars. My addiction is stronger than my conscience in this regard. My garage is actually larger in square footage than my house.
> 
> I really don't know how to change this other than not driving a fancy car. If I try to wave to everyone, they'll think I'm showing off. If I stay quiet people think I'm a snob.
> 
> It's a lose lose situation really.
> 
> Let me ask the group a question. Let's say you are in a Ferrari driving in the right lane doing the speed limit on the highway. A car full of people starts to pass, gets up next to you and slows down to match your speed. All the people are staring at you, getting out their phones and taking pictures. What should you do? I feel so awkward when this happens and it happens all the time. Or, same situation but they are all flipping you off. This happens too.


As I said, it must be a totally different culture concerning the rich where you are. In my area, if one were rich, they would also have to have their nose in the air to be shunned. I think even introverts can at least be friendly enough to be likeable. I'm quiet, and I'm certainly not going to hug you and talk your head off if i see you, but i think I'm friendly enough.


----------



## giddiot

I got bought coffee for the 5th time yesterday in the Caribou drive thru. I'm a grey haired old guy who is usually wearing a black fleece jacket this time of year. So I ask the barista who knows me what gives. She said I look like an state trooper in an unmarked car. My Challenger is granite gray. Bizarre.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dubsey

wild jade said:


> Just a follow up thought. I have to say I'm very surprised to hear these stories of people not liking or not wanting to talk to you because of a hot car. Honestly, I though the reverse was true, and that hot cars were the way to pick up women, impress all your friends, and so on. As others have mentioned, the rich often find themselves with a whole bunch of "friends" who love them simply because they're rich.
> 
> And so it surprises me that the experience here is so different. Could it just be a location thing?


it's not really a location thing. it's a stereotype thing. Stereotypes, despite the stigma associated with the word, are not a bad thing. It saves your brain a ton of processing power when things fit in pre-concieved boxes, and they generally do.

</psych degree off>

So, for people who aren't around money, they box "people with money" together. In reality, there's a huge difference between how people act and how they attained their money.

investment bankers are far different than people who made it from a tech startup, vs the original small business owner who's business isn't so small anymore vs someone born into money vs the attorney or doctor, just for a few examples.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

dubsey said:


> it's not really a location thing. it's a stereotype thing. Stereotypes, despite the stigma associated with the word, are not a bad thing. It saves your brain a ton of processing power when things fit in pre-concieved boxes, and they generally do.


 Completely true... this is a great write up on explaining this... 

Recognizing & Understanding Stereotypes and Bias




> Psychologists once believed that only bigoted people used stereotypes. Now the study of unconscious bias is revealing the unsettling truth: We all use stereotypes, all the time, without knowing it. We have met the enemy of equality, and the enemy is us.
> 
> Each of us has a biased world view because we are all limited to a single camera perspective. That is we can only see what comes before us, we can only hear what is around us, and we can only read that which is in front of us. No one has the definitive version of reality, including the the author of this lesson. Our social locations helps inform our world view - our race, class, gender, religion, sexual orientation, culture, etc.Our world view impacts how we view, respond, and react to every experience....
> 
> *A stereotype is*: an exaggerated belief, image or distorted truth about a person or group — a generalization that allows for little or no individual differences or social variation. Stereotypes are based on images in mass media, or reputations passed on by parents, peers and other members of society. Stereotypes can be positive or negative. (Southern Poverty Law Center)
> 
> One theory as to why people stereotype is that it is too difficult to take in all of the complexities of other people as individuals. Even though stereotyping is inexact, it is an efficient way to mentally organize large blocks of information. Categorization is an essential human capability because it enables us to simplify, predict, and organize our world. Once one has sorted and organized everyone into tidy categories, there is a human tendency to avoid processing new or unexpected information about each individual. Assigning general group characteristics to members of that group saves time and satisfies the need to predict the social world in a general sense....


But no matter what our preconceived thoughts on another may be, whether it be on what one drives (like here on this thread), which neighborhood they come from, their religion, political association (that's a BIG ONE right now!)....we should be mindful to look beyond, deeper...to what someone is made of, as appearing in a certain group, or category can never tell the whole story, or define someone.....

All in fun.. but I found this related to vehicles... Yep... we got the old people's car...(I always did call our Buick Century's a Grandpa car)


----------



## john117

OMG

Saab 900: old: professor new: bitter professor



Former Saab 900 SPG driver and former pretend professor (graduate student & instructor)


----------



## southbound

SimplyAmorous said:


> You want to hear how car illiterate I am ... if a man was trying to impress me with a vehicle, I'd be the biggest let down he's ever met.....I don't even know the difference between a Ferrari & a Camero .... I'm sure I've seen far more Camaro's in my time.... husband was telling me last night when I asked ...HOW MUCH MORE COSTLY these Ferrari's are, well over $100,000.. which I wasn't even aware of ..... now if I seen some car with the door opening up to the sky.. I believe those are Lamborghini's...that's about all I know about them.


That's the way I am too. I would recognize a Ferrari if it were the Magnum P.I. model, but aside from that, I wouldn't know an expensive car from a "buy one get one free" model. :grin2: That's the way I am with a lot of expensive stuff. My daughter pointed out an expensive handbag that a girl had recently, and I thought it looked like it was off the rack at Wal-Mart. Like you, if someone is trying to impress me with most anything costly, I'd be a big let down to them.


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## dubsey

My gal is the same way. Couldn't care less. It doesn't matter which cars I currently have at the house - she won't drive any of them because she doesn't know if she should be afraid while driving it or not. She just sticks with her mommy SUV.


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## Looking2Change

This is my fun car and I can say that women def. make an effort to talk to you when driving this car. My daily driver is a Ranger Rover and yes women talk differently towards me then when I drive my wife's Mazda.


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## john117

But it's not red!!

Seriously, great choice.


----------



## Looking2Change

john117 said:


> But it's not red!!
> 
> Seriously, great choice.


I know Italian cars are supposed to be red.


----------



## Palodyne

I hate cars. I made my living from cars and trucks from 1989 - 2009. I was first a parts salesman, then an actual mechanic. I never thought women found automobiles sexy or attractive. To me cars and trucks were simply a way to make a living.

If a woman looked at my car or truck as a statis or symbol of success, I would have had no interest in her. But everyone is different.


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## john117

Most cars are what you describe. Some are not. The design is an important component, what makes a Jaguar a Jaguar? When you see the Alfa you know there's some history there. Look at the new Giulia... And so on. The key is to design something that the customer connects with. Look at Apple.

How many people drive a Honda S2000 and know the story of the S600? Todays Mini vs the old?


----------



## Looking2Change

john117 said:


> Most cars are what you describe. Some are not. The design is an important component, what makes a Jaguar a Jaguar? When you see the Alfa you know there's some history there. Look at the new Giulia... And so on. The key is to design something that the customer connects with. Look at Apple.
> 
> How many people drive a Honda S2000 and know the story of the S600? Todays Mini vs the old?


Exactly.... I believe the car you drive is a reflection of your personality. The Giulia is such a beautiful car. I want to trade my Range Rover in for one when they are available. If you're a car guy it's about the experience.

The reason I love my Alfa is the reason most people wouldn't like it.


----------



## Personal

...


----------



## john117

The SM would likely turn more heads than anything else I can think of .


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## jld

Pam said:


> And I am past the point of caring what a guy drives.


I think I would be more impressed by a guy who did not have a car payment than by whatever he were driving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117

Most people who buy those cars don't worry about car payments. I was filling up the Mini and this kid pulls up with an Infiniti Q70. I did the requisite w.t.f and when he got out he was wearing medical scrubs. Didn't look much older than Doogie Howser, MD 

You think he's worried about car payments?


----------



## jld

SimplyAmorous said:


> Simply... because I KNOW HOW PEOPLE THINK.. I read these posts every day.. I can always tell who is higher class & who is not, who comes from a more humble means..
> 
> I am one who feels *it's best* to stay within our own social class.. many family members would frown on a their educated financially wealthy son marrying a woman that is lower class economically.. (personally I think our heart & Intentions are more important over these things, not to mention "compatibility).. but this is just reality... and the vast majority of the time.. these men SHOULD be very careful with that !
> 
> There is a thread going right now in this section...EVERYONE is warning the woman to not dare marry a younger man with lessor means, less education- over her..... Come on now!


SA, could you link that thread, please? Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jld

john117 said:


> Most people who buy those cars don't worry about car payments. I was filling up the Mini and this kid pulls up with an Infiniti Q70. I did the requisite w.t.f and when he got out he was wearing medical scrubs. Didn't look much older than Doogie Howser, MD
> 
> You think he's worried about car payments?


No, I did not mean the really expensive cars. I meant the "expensive for the American middle class" cars, the ones we cannot afford without payments.

To me, luxury items are luxuries, things you buy after you are debt-free, with a fully funded retirement and hefty savings account, educations for kids fully funded, etc. And even then, only if your conscience will allow it.

Jmo, of course.


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## john117

Social class? I lived in McMansion land for 15 years and would have a hard time recognizing any of my neighbors in a police lineup . Social class is far more than income or neighborhood. It's attitude, perceived sense of economic power...


----------



## jld

john117 said:


> Social class is far more than income or neighborhood. It's attitude, perceived sense of economic power...


Yes, I agree that is all part of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117

Yep. The "lets talk about a business opportunity" part is ingrained into them... The moment they sense you're not into the business you're a social outcast...


----------



## uhtred

One think many people miss is that at least in the US, social class is not a ladder, there are many parallel classes. Wealthy businessmen may have little overlap with high-tech people, who have little overlap with doctors, or old wealth. 

The nerd wealthy are interesting because they generally understand that their wealth is a matter of luck - having been in the right startup. They are proud of their technical skills, but don't view wealth as a measure of those skills.




john117 said:


> Social class? I lived in McMansion land for 15 years and would have a hard time recognizing any of my neighbors in a police lineup . Social class is far more than income or neighborhood. It's attitude, perceived sense of economic power...


----------



## john117

There's some truth to that. I think the groups are more based on race and ethnicity, and working or SAHM.

We have a pair of Indian pharmacists living next door. For 10+ years. I could not pick them out of a police lineup and the only time ever I talked to him was when he was in India and lightning hit one of his trees. Yet a few doors down there's an Indian doctor and his SAHM wife and they're pretty much the social butterflies of the block. (it helps she's a 9.5 - would be 10 but she's short   )

Virtually no one in the neighborhood drives an emotional car, my Mini and a new Jaguar excepted... A few have some expensive wheels (Tesla's, M5's) but nothing too unusual. Suburbia assimilates quite rapidly. We went from Japanese luxury to be, to expensive Japanese luxury, to midrange European luxury. For moms from Chrysler minivans to big SUVs to more modest sized but even pricier luxury SUV's.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

jld said:


> SA, could you link that thread, please? Thank you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh heck.. it is surely lost now.. he did sound like he wanted a Sugar Mama though... not that this was a good example.. I don't believe the majority of women want to date or marry down "class wise"....generally speaking, men are just more open to this, to support a woman if they trust she isn't using him, that she genuinely is in love with him & wants to contribute too (even if it's not equal)...which they should be very careful about.


----------



## jld

SimplyAmorous said:


> Oh heck.. it is surely lost now.. he did sound like he wanted a Sugar Mama though... not that this was a good example.. I don't believe the majority of women want to date or marry down "class wise"....generally speaking, men are just more open to this, to support a woman if they trust she isn't using him, that she genuinely is in love with him & wants to contribute too (even if it's not equal)...which they should be very careful about.


I think it depends on the woman, whether or not she is comfortable supporting a man. I can think of one woman irl who married "down," against her parents' wishes, just for love. I hope her marriage is as fulfilling as she hopes, and that her parents' concerns are unfounded.

Everyone seems to have such different goals regarding marriage. There are certain things I would like for my kids, but they may not see them as a priority at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding

My W was my college sweetheart, so there was no marrying up/down/left/right ... must've been my car back then, I drove a mean Isuzu Trooper!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

EllisRedding said:


> My W was my college sweetheart, so there was no marrying up/down/left/right ... must've been my car back then, I drove a mean Isuzu Trooper!


We met in high school...both our families blue collar.. his father and mine were both truck Drivers of sorts.. mine did road maintenance and his worked for a cement business...

My husband had a new car when I met him... it was an Oldsmobile Delta '88 (guess we've been plagued with Grandpa cars over the years)... which I wrecked on the way to take my drivers test at age 16...going down an embankment into a tree (roads were slick, some icing that morning)...

Ran just fine after we were pulled out, sliced some of the bottom up though as I drove over a guard rail ! YIKES! (didn't know the extent of this at the time)... still we headed to take my test anyway.. and I passed ! Crazy little story of ours... so I had my 1st accident and got my licence within hours of each other.. He never got upset with me...he's just always had that attitude of.. "things happen, so long as we're Ok, life is good"... very easy going man.


----------



## Blacksmith01

For years I drove A F-350 one ton 4x4. I bought it to pull a fifth wheel. I never bought the trailer as I got divorced instead. When I sold it a few of my guy friends made fun of me because I bought a VW Jetta SE. Said I wouldn't be able to get a date around here. I told them that I would take my chances on the VW as I had seen what kind of woman the truck got me. Told them that I was going to get another truck but wanted to find a woman that hadn't been plowed more than the fields around my house. That shut them up.


----------



## Lila

Blacksmith01 said:


> For years I drove A F-350 one ton 4x4. I bought it to pull a fifth wheel. I never bought the trailer as I got divorced instead. When I sold it a few of my guy friends made fun of me because I bought a VW Jetta SE. Said I wouldn't be able to get a date around here. I told them that I would take my chances on the VW as* I had seen what kind of woman the truck got me. Told them that I was going to get another truck but wanted to find a woman that hadn't been plowed more than the fields around my house. *That shut them up.


I've gotta tell ya, correlation is not causation. As a woman who finds men who drive trucks particularly attractive, your bolded statement is really off the mark. I haven't all been 'plowed more than the fields around your house'. Is it possible that the problem is localized to your neck of the woods? I live in the SE US where trucks are derigeur. 

FWIW, I think the problem lies in your lady picker not on a stereotype based on the kind of car you drive. 

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## DustyDog

As far as car payments and the cost of a car, I decided that nobody's opionion could really be counted on. What I wanted to figure out was what were the real averages, and then I'd decide whether I wanted to be on the high side or low side.

So, way back in the 1980s, when I was formulating my philosophy on cars, I used the NHTSA publications in the library to learn:
- Avg age of a car on the road was 9 years, with 110k miles on the odometer
- 55% of cars are purchased with loans, the rest cash. Default rate on loans was 1%.
- 90% of cars had no loan (e.g., of the 55% that were purchased using loans, most people paid off the loan and kept the car)
- On average, a car would have 3 owners
- 60% of cars were purchased used.

I decided that I did not 'deserve' a new car until my income was above the 60%-ile, so it was def. to be used. I decided to buy a slightly older than avg car (10 years) with cash, and hope to be owner #2. Worked OK for years.

About 5 years ago, I went to Wards' Auto Report for similar info. The stats, as of 2011:
- Avg age of a car on the road is 17 years, with 170k on the odo
- 65% of cars are purchased with loans. Default rate is 12% (!!!)
- 95% of cars had no loan (they are kept longer, so the owner has more debt-free years)
- On average, a car still has 3 owners
- 85% of cars are purchased used.

So, were I fresh out of college, I'd say I can buy a new car when my income exceeds the 85th percentile. Until then, I should buy 17 year old cars, with cash, and be owner #2 or 3.

However...I splurged and went with a 10 year old and 3 year old car last time. But then....I went past the 85% quite some time ago.


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## EllisRedding

IDK, do some people get drawn in to certain types of cars being driven, sure. We all stereotype in some form or another, whether it be the car someone is driving, their house, how they dress, etc... Sometimes those stereotypes are pretty accurate, sometimes they are way off. I drive a nice car, I have a nice house, if they want to draw some sort of conclusion on me based off of that, so be it, although their conclusion will likely be way off. 

As far as cars and payments, my approach, I buy what I can comfortably afford with the plan that the car needs to be paid off within the first year. After that I drive the car as long as possible until it doesn't make sense to maintain. To date I have only bought 2 cars. First one lasted me 8 years and about 180k miles. My current one I think I am in year 5 with over 100k miles. If I spend more on a car then others would, who gives a crap, I am buying it for myself, and especially given I spend nearly 2hrs a day driving to/from work, I want to be in something I enjoy.


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## Blacksmith01

Lila said:


> I've gotta tell ya, correlation is not causation. As a woman who finds men who drive trucks particularly attractive, your bolded statement is really off the mark. I haven't all been 'plowed more than the fields around your house'. Is it possible that the problem is localized to your neck of the woods? I live in the SE US where trucks are derigeur.
> 
> FWIW, I think the problem lies in your lady picker not on a stereotype based on the kind of car you drive.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


It is my neck of the woods that is the problem. I still have a truck. An 84 K-10 4x4.


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## Lila

EllisRedding said:


> If I spend more on a car then others would, who gives a crap, I am buying it for myself, and especially given* I spend nearly 2hrs a day driving to/from work, I want to be in something I enjoy*.


I drive a luxury vehicle for this same reason. I deal with heavy, stop and go traffic everyday. I didn't realize how big of an effect surround sound radio, seat coolers, and melt into your seat cushioning would have on keeping my road rage at bay.  



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## CuriousBlue

I guess I get it if I had to drive that much. and sit in traffic.
but i don't need a big gas guzzler.
but, i do like to ride in one!!


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## EllisRedding

Lila said:


> I drive a luxury vehicle for this same reason. I deal with heavy, stop and go traffic everyday. I didn't realize how big of an effect surround sound radio, seat coolers, and melt into your seat cushioning would have on keeping my road rage at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


lol, I love my heated seats. Also a big part of my decision was AWD which they are known for having top notch. A few years ago we got hit with a nasty blizzard in the middle of the day. Took me over 3 hours to get home, but while many other cars were stranded on the highway I drove right past them without issue. Car paid for itself right there!


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## john117

My algorithm says..... If it takes AWD to get to work, work from home.


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## GuyInColorado

My algorithm says... If it takes 2hrs to drive to/from work, find a new job or move. Fawk that!


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## EllisRedding

GuyInColorado said:


> My algorithm says... If it takes 2hrs to drive to/from work, find a new job or move. Fawk that!


Actually, 35 minutes each way ... without traffic ... close to an 1+ hours with traffic. Even at two hours with traffic I will gladly take that over the alternatives (which used to include 3-4 hours commuting into the city)


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## uhtred

Sometimes there is no good option. Even in in cities, jobs are often located far from affordable housing.




GuyInColorado said:


> My algorithm says... If it takes 2hrs to drive to/from work, find a new job or move. Fawk that!


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## SimplyAmorous

DustyDog said:


> As far as car payments and the cost of a car, I decided that nobody's opionion could really be counted on. What I wanted to figure out was what were the real averages, and then I'd decide whether I wanted to be on the high side or low side.
> 
> So, way back in the 1980s, when I was formulating my philosophy on cars, I used the NHTSA publications in the library to learn:
> - Avg age of a car on the road was 9 years, with 110k miles on the odometer
> - 55% of cars are purchased with loans, the rest cash. Default rate on loans was 1%.
> - 90% of cars had no loan (e.g., of the 55% that were purchased using loans, most people paid off the loan and kept the car)
> - On average, a car would have 3 owners
> - 60% of cars were purchased used.
> 
> I decided that I did not 'deserve' a new car until my income was above the 60%-ile, so it was def. to be used. I decided to buy a slightly older than avg car (10 years) with cash, and hope to be owner #2. Worked OK for years.
> 
> About 5 years ago, I went to Wards' Auto Report for similar info. The stats, as of 2011:
> - Avg age of a car on the road is 17 years, with 170k on the odo
> - 65% of cars are purchased with loans. Default rate is 12% (!!!)
> - 95% of cars had no loan (they are kept longer, so the owner has more debt-free years)
> - On average, a car still has 3 owners
> - 85% of cars are purchased used.
> 
> So, were I fresh out of college, I'd say I can buy a new car when my income exceeds the 85th percentile. Until then, I should buy 17 year old cars, with cash, and be owner #2 or 3.
> 
> However...I splurged and went with a 10 year old and 3 year old car last time. But then....I went past the 85% quite some time ago.


Love the breakdown of figures here...I knew as soon as I seen your name.. "frugal" came to mind.. I've seen a # of your posts in the financial section.. yours stood out to me...I never looked into ALL of this...interesting, you sound like a very wise man.


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## DustyDog

SimplyAmorous said:


> Love the breakdown of figures here...I knew as soon as I seen your name.. "frugal" came to mind.. I've seen a # of your posts in the financial section.. yours stood out to me...I never looked into ALL of this...interesting, you sound like a very wise man.


Or I have OCD about making decisions. I don't dig into that much detail any more, but somehow, when I was in my 20s, I knew I was stupid in a lot of real-life ways, so I over-compensated.

Still do, unfortunately, and I need to learn to "get out of my head" from time to time.

But, I do think the over-thinking has helped me overcome some pretty low times.


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## MrsHolland

DustyDog said:


> *Or I have OCD about making decisions.* I don't dig into that much detail any more, but somehow, when I was in my 20s, I knew I was stupid in a lot of real-life ways, so I over-compensated.
> 
> Still do, unfortunately, and I need to learn to "get out of my head" from time to time.
> 
> But, I do think the over-thinking has helped me overcome some pretty low times.


Man oh man, you must be a bag of fun. A car is usually a depreciating asset, it is simple "do I like it?" "can I afford it?".

I trade equities as my "at home" job and would not put as much detailed thought into the decisions to buy or sell a (hopefully) appreciating class of asset than you do with one that we all know is going to go down in value and cost money to run i.e. we know we are going to lose money on but choose to for various reasons.


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## DustyDog

MrsHolland said:


> Man oh man, you must be a bag of fun. A car is usually a depreciating asset, it is simple "do I like it?" "can I afford it?".
> 
> I trade equities as my "at home" job and would not put as much detailed thought into the decisions to buy or sell a (hopefully) appreciating class of asset than you do with one that we all know is going to go down in value and cost money to run i.e. we know we are going to lose money on but choose to for various reasons.


If you'll notice, I did say that I put that effort into it 30+ years ago - in my 20s. And, the analysis wasn't about the car, it was about 'how much of my spending is reasonable to put into a car'...seems a reasonable question for someone who just got his first job, eh?

Yes, a vehicle is a depreciating asset. If you buy them new, in fact, depreciation is your largest expense. Which is why the decision to buy used makes sense for those whose incomes are below average (as mine was at the time of contemplating it). Back in the 1980s, I did a quick evaluation - then, the assumed way to acquire vehicles was to buy new, drive for 5 years, then trade in for another new one. I took the typical depreciation of a car in 5 years, and multiplied it out over 50 years of driving, and realized that if you DID do things that way, you'd spend more on cars over your lifetime than a house. Seemed silly. And...seems like coming up with your preferred method of acquiring cars probably should be given the same care as selecting a house, since doing cars wrong makes them a bigger financial impact.

I am in a different financial place now, so indeed, my recent purchases had more to do with what I liked driving (blended with an utter dislike for the whole purchase process, so I avoided all but the 20% of models deemed most reliable long-term). But, back when I was low income, I think I made good decisions, because every time AAA issued their "average cost per mile" for driving a vehicle, my actual figures were always 1/4 of their estimate or less...a good thing, for one whose income was below average.

Most of my ability to invest in the market, in those early years, came from the annual savings in the transportation category that came from my chosen method of vehicle acquisition.


Am I fun? Beats me. Throughout my adult life, it seems I've been the one who decides or not, whether to keep a friendship going, so apparently I'm fun enough LOL


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## heartsbeating

EllisRedding said:


> My W was my college sweetheart, so there was no marrying up/down/left/right ... must've been my car back then, I drove a mean Isuzu Trooper!


We got together young too. When I met Batman, he didn't have a car.

He test drove a few the other day. Cars are an emotional, irrational decision for him... balanced with what feels interesting and (somewhat) utility. We're both accustomed to heated seats and comfort. He's getting close to a decision. I love observing and being part of his process with selecting a car. It's almost a courtship.


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## MrsHolland

This weekend I saw a new Mustang, now that is a car I would leave my husband for. 

Did some research and it looks like they are very well priced at around $50-$68K AUD.


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## heartsbeating

MrsHolland said:


> This weekend I saw a new Mustang, now that is a car I would leave my husband for.
> 
> Did some research and it looks like they are very well priced at around $50-$68K AUD.


That was on hubs' list. He enjoyed a flirtation then moved on.


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## karole

I worked for a bankruptcy attorney a long time ago. In that job, I saw how much a brand new car depreciates the day you drive it off the lot. No way would I buy a brand new car. No matter how much money I have. It's ridiculous. Give me a year old used car with low miles instead.


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## farsidejunky

MrsHolland said:


> This weekend I saw a new Mustang, now that is a car I would leave my husband for.
> 
> Did some research and it looks like they are very well priced at around $50-$68K AUD.


And they are FUN.


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