# Trust



## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

It's just so damn hard. Not the cheating part, the not telling me everything part. Like, why does he mention who is at the weight room but only tells me the people I would approve of (ugly women? I don't know...) and leaves out other people. I know they're there, they say hi to him when we're out in public. And they work there so can use the weight room. So why even?
I'm so freaking tired. 
I just need to move on and forget worrying about this. It's stealing time from my life from me. I cannot control anything. I don't worry that he'll cheat so what is the issue here..? 
Three months ago I used spokeo to check on a number - nothing. But I get the third degree about why it's on our credit card statement. 
It's been 4 years, 3 years since the last lie. I don't know how to put it really behind me.. forgiveness isn't the issue... trust is. PMS too!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Steph, 
your driving yourself crazy, and you are emotionally and psychologically killing your marriage at the same time, little by little. How can you build a future when your constantly absorb in his day to day activities. You would have to be around him 24 hours a day, to feel any form of relief, and you know that is not possible or healthy. And why is he not telling you about the beautiful girls at the gym ...self-preservation. think about if he tells you about all the beautiful girls he sees at the gym then your mind starts to wander and then you get crazy about what the beautiful girls might have said to him, and then you go into asking questions about them....he would rather tell you what you want to hear so as to keep the questioning to a minimum. Sooner or later for your own health, you either have to let this go or let him go....this is no way to live the rest of your life.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

this doesn't happen all the time but occasionally I just really wonder. 
I agree it's no way to live my life. But this is the dilemma after having to find out everything myself. If he could have told me one thing... this would be easier.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

But would it be easier? you have to be honest with yourself, these If-Then mental exercise may play great as a Monday morning quarterbacking but in reality they don't real produce the outcome you would have expected. Please understand that i am not trying to belittle your thoughts, i am trying to spare you from driving yourself to a level of depression or anxiety. he will either prove himself to be good or he won't, but your interjection can not force him to be good if he is still willing to cheat. I am not suggesting he is or going to cheat, what i am saying is that the only person you can control is yourself. you can influence him but you can not control his actions. My fear is that your driving yourself crazy trying too.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I get what you're saying, and I agree...it's just that I had to spy to catch him... and giving that up (which I have to a very large degree) means I just hope for the best that I'll find out one way or another. Or, just hope that we are both 100% committed and I have nothing to worry about - boy, that'd be nice.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

SS,

You will have to accept that your affair has changed his relationship with what were once only everyday details of life permanently. 

Although my Ws cheating on me, with OM-1, occurred 20+ years ago and even before we were married, I still cannot hear his name without triggering, or even seeing someone from his country. Hopefully your OM was not named John or Bob. 

Betrayed spouses can be plagued by obsessive thoughts for years and years. OM-1 is in a dream of mine, at least that I can remember, about once a month still. 

Tamat


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

TAMAT said:


> SS,
> 
> You will have to accept that your affair has changed his relationship with what were once only everyday details of life permanently.
> 
> ...


well, I don't know if that's good news or bad news - that I should just accept that some days trust will be harder than others? I want to get to the point where i don't care and that it doesn't impact me... I really do. 
My OM WAS named one of those. I have 6 girls in my girl possy and 3 of them share the same name as OW1.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> I get what you're saying, and I agree...it's just that I had to spy to catch him... and giving that up (which I have to a very large degree) means I just hope for the best that I'll find out one way or another. Or, just hope that we are both 100% committed and I have nothing to worry about - boy, that'd be nice.


Do you want the marriage to get better? Or do you want to trip him up so you have a reason to leave?

You need to be all in on whichever path you want to take. 

Tripping him up would be easy. If you want out, you can always just end things. Admit you are not over it and can't get over it and end it. 

If you want things to work, then you need to be committed to that, and (here is the hard part) hope he is too. Make your boundaries clear, and try to wean yourself off the obsessive spying. It's difficult to be sure, but it only provides temporary relief to your anxiety. The truth reveals itself in time. In the end, if he disappoints you, don't give him the ground to say you drove him to it.


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## Imovedforthis (Dec 18, 2015)

I feel ya 100.. it is SO hard to trust or TRY to trust again after it's been broken. 
I get so sick of hearing "just forgive and forget"... or "just let it go".. ummm ok. guess what, NOT.THAT.EASY. 
I can't forgive lies, and i'll never forget so it's a double doom. 

I'm at the point after 13 years, where I'm REALLY thinking hard about whether I want to go much longer in this marriage. Sure, I love him and already know it will be hell trying to leave him and live without him. But, the mind games, what ifs, torture on myself bc I don't trust him is starting to outweigh all that and I just want to be happy. I'm miserable bc I can't trust my husband. 

So it comes down to settle and accept it, or leave and gain sanity back. currently weighing those odds out. so far it's leaning more and more to just walking away... for my own sake. Is love and marriage really supposed to leave us miserable like this day in and day out?? 

if so, I want to be single...


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Steph- and Imovedforthis-I am right there with you. It is crazy making.

I feel like I am at a point now where I may be ruining the very marriage that I always wanted. The anxiety and obsessive thoughts are all consuming when they come. I could get fired from work for snooping on the computer when I should be working. 

I am not coming up with anything definitive and sometimes go crazy over something that proves to be nothing….when I was so sure it was the smoking gun.

When I trigger he triggers back and on and on it goes.


I will read the posts meant for you and take them to heart as well. Kill to birds with one stone.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I wouldn't say I'm a obsessive spyer. I stopped MOST of that after two years.
I would say I'm an obsessive worrier though. I would like to not worry and say, "whatever happens happens." But that makes it hard to have the vision of growing old together.


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## Imovedforthis (Dec 18, 2015)

nursejackie said:


> Steph- I am right there with you. It is crazy making. I feel like I am at a point now where I may be ruining the very marriage that I always wanted. The anxiety and obsessive thoughts are all consuming when they come. I could get fired from work for snooping on the computer when I should be working.
> 
> *I am not coming up with anything definitive and sometimes go crazy over something that proves to be nothing….when I was so sure it was the smoking gun.
> 
> ...


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## Imovedforthis (Dec 18, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I wouldn't say I'm a obsessive spyer. I stopped MOST of that after two years.
> I would say I'm an obsessive worrier though. I would like to not worry and say, "whatever happens happens." But that makes it hard to have the vision of growing old together.


Me too... I have said it a ton of times, I really wish I had no feelings or emotions or maybe even a conscience lol 

I OVER think EVERY thing... constantly obsess over thoughts and what ifs wondering what my husband is doing behind my back.

And on top of that, bc I can't handle guilt at all... I feel guilty bc I obsess so much over stuff that probably isn't happening or just stuff I shouldn't be obsessing over. Then I worry about that bc i'm obsessing over this crap over and over. 

It's a viscous cycle


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

You have discovered why I chose to call it quits. You can forgive but never forget. I did not want to go through life being suspicious about a person who already proved they are a liar, deceptive and not to be trusted. I was taught in College that the best indicator of a person's future behavior, is their past behaviour. I have known a few cheating wives, most of whom had been caught up to twice, by their husbands. They did not stop cheating; they only got better at it. There is a lot of truth to the saying that once a cheater, always a cheater. The two women who cheated on me went on to cheat on their husbands after me. I am sure that is not true 100% of the time, but too many times for my comfort to ignore it.

Even if you suppress your suspicions, they usually will pop up again even worse. Insecurity creates jealousy and you can only suppress it for so long before it surfaces even worst than before. For me the major problem was not the sex with another man but the broken trust. Trust takes a very long time to regain. How do I believe someone who is telling me that they are a liar? Your husband has to go out of his way to give you no reason to suspect him and that is very hard to do. Going to the gym or similar gives him time and opportunity. Get him an iPhone and turn on his tracking. He should be OK with whatever way you want to keep tabs on him. Over 50 years I have learned that when it comes to sex or emotions, people make bad decisions and you cannot trust anyone 100%. A healthy dose of suspicion is a good idea. If I had a dime for every man or woman who said that they are certain that their spouse would never cheat on them, when I knew that they were, I would have a lot of dimes. 

Good luck and hope it works out for you.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Steph, ImovedforThis, Nurse, others,

I am more than three years out from DDay and I don't trust my husband. Totally agree it's emotionally, mentally, and physically exhausting. What's interesting is that he has not really given me any reason NOT to trust him, but the fact that he did no "heavy lifting" and just wanted everything rugswept did worlds of damage. He works very long hours at work, but as a lawyer that's kind of normal. A VAR turned up no evidence for me. 

Like Acoa posted, "are you looking to trip him up so you have a reason to leave." That rings true with me. If I am honest with myself, deep down, I don't really think he is being unfaithful to me. But that does not mean I trust him. And worse, I'm not sure that I love him the same way anymore. We've been married almost 15 years. I'm in my early 40s. When I think about the rest of my life, I think I would be happier being single. Or at least not living day in an day out with someone who so blatantly lied to me and and betrayed me. 

Like Imovedforthis stated, forgiving and forgetting is not easy. One either has to settle (which so far I've done -- I have a 10 year old son with him), or just decide to call it quits. 

I recently posted about considering hiring a PI. Is it because I have a true suspicion? Not really. I am grasping at straws to try to trip him up somehow, and then have a solid reason, beyond any doubt, that leaving is the right thing to do. Who knows, if "once a cheater always a cheater" is true in this case, maybe I'll get real evidence with a PI. It's not like our sex life is good.

There's a reason why they say being betrayed is like joining a club you never wanted to join. 

Strive for peace, folks, no matter what.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

If you feel the need to spy obsessively, then something isn't right yet. 

After Dday 1, I was in that loop. I became Sherlock Holmes. It was exhausting, and after a year I decided I had to stop. Instead of checking FB and her phone every day, I backed off to once a week. Then once a month. 

Here is the thing, my now XW was still doing things that triggered me. Checking less frequently was very difficult at first. But after a while it wasn't so bad. I could go a month without checking, and when I did it was quick and almost mechanical. I followed a sort of checklist in my head. If anything seemed odd I asked her. But for months in a row nothing was out of order.

I still 'felt' something was off, but I just enjoyed the good days and figured either things would break bad or get better. But I did my best to work toward better. I was in IC, working out and reading self help books like a machine. I hoped that the something off was me. And that eventually I'd snap out of it. 

Eventually things did break bad. It didn't take any deep sleuthing to realize she was cheating. During my monthly check I noticed she deleted a bunch of texts between her and a guy she knew. We had an agreement she wouldn't delete texts. She violated that, which is really all I needed. I tried recovering the deleted texts but she ripped the phone away and started quacking about privacy violations and the such. She was like a rabid animal. It was that moment that I knew we were over. It was an 'ah-ha' kind of experience. I decided to step off the hamster wheel and not look back. 

I hope that you don't have a similar experience. I hope your H realizes the pain he has caused and loves you enough to do all in his power to help heal your relationship. If he isn't, your just in limbo waiting for him to either come around, or screw up. You'll be doing yourself a favor by reducing the sleuthing no matter which way it goes. Your anxiety will go down eventually (after a brief spike during withdrawal). If your H is being faithful it will help him feel closer to you rather than persecuted. If your H is being unfaithful, he will lower his guard and detection of an underground A will be easier.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

OP, I know what you are going through, believe me. I have fought this demon many times, for a long time. Forgiveness is hard, if it's to be real. It's a choice. 

But remember that forgiveness is not a feeling. Forgiveness doesn't erase memories, erase the consequences of the wrongdoing, and surely doesn't rebuild trust. Forgiveness doesn't always result in reconciliation for that matter. 

Forgiveness, when it's real, removes the barrier in your relationship and lifts the penalty. This means you CHOOSE never to hold that failure against the other person again. Forgiveness is probably the first step for restoring your relationship and start to grow again.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

doubletrouble said:


> OP, I know what you are going through, believe me. I have fought this demon many times, for a long time. Forgiveness is hard, if it's to be real. It's a choice.
> 
> But remember that forgiveness is not a feeling. Forgiveness doesn't erase memories, erase the consequences of the wrongdoing, and surely doesn't rebuild trust. Forgiveness doesn't always result in reconciliation for that matter.
> 
> Forgiveness, when it's real, removes the barrier in your relationship and lifts the penalty. This means you CHOOSE never to hold that failure against the other person again. Forgiveness is probably the first step for restoring your relationship and start to grow again.


I don't hold this over him. I have forgiven him. 
but you're right. it doesn't have anything to do with trust..


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

totalfive21 said:


> "are you looking to trip him up so you have a reason to leave."


if I am.... what does that mean? he has accused me of this.

I would like to know everything (from back then) to make an informed decision.
I kind of want him to flub up so I can say, "see, you haven't done the work," and then see what he does.
I didn't do the work until I hit rock bottom. I don't think he's been there yet.
But, maybe he doesn't need to be. But as a cheater, you really have to turn your life
inside out to change. If you choose affair, you have work to do. 
If he hasn't done it, is he still a safe partner? 
How do I know he's not done it? He still blames me (occasionally) for what he did.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Acoa said:


> You'll be doing yourself a favor by reducing the sleuthing no matter which way it goes. Your anxiety will go down eventually (after a brief spike during withdrawal). If your H is being faithful it will help him feel closer to you rather than persecuted. If your H is being unfaithful, he will lower his guard and detection of an underground A will be easier.


this is true. I wonder if I would have ever found out though, had I not snooped or hired a PI for the 2nd affair. When you hire a PI for 2 hours of a 25 year marriage and you find him on top of another woman, it's not good folks. Trust is hard. But... I'm really trying to work hard at letting go and just letting him hang himself, if that's where it goes. And I don't think it will. 
I always thought I saved him by discovering his affairs early and putting a stop to them. But I really didn't. I should have let him climb out of that rabbit hole himself. 
stupid codependency.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I do not believe you are recovered from the massive trauma of multiple affairs, yours and his as well as your attack and his continued, horrible response to you over it.

You need healing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> this is true. I wonder if I would have ever found out though, had I not snooped or hired a PI for the 2nd affair. When you hire a PI for 2 hours of a 25 year marriage and you find him on top of another woman, it's not good folks. Trust is hard. But... I'm really trying to work hard at letting go and just letting him hang himself, if that's where it goes. And I don't think it will.
> I always thought I saved him by discovering his affairs early and putting a stop to them. But I really didn't. I should have let him climb out of that rabbit hole himself.
> stupid codependency.



People don't hire a PI on a whim. Your gut told you something. The fact the PI found proof in 2 hours means you had a pretty good idea where to point him.

Codependent behavior takes work to break. Don't focus on him, focus on you. What do you need to feel safe? Is that reasonable? Then ask for it. Not for his sake, for yours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Trust arrives on foot and leaves on a horse. Trouble is, that horse never comes back. . .


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