# Is cheating really the worse thing a spouse can do to you?



## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I keep on reading this in the forums, that being cheated on is the worse thing that can happen in a marriage, but is it really?
Don't get me wrong, my Hs A was absolutely devastating to me and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but for 17 years we had a fairly good marriage, no major issues, and now we are well on the way to fixing it. So from the start of the A until now it's been about 19 months. Our marriage is well on the way to being fixed and we are happy again. Now compare that with a spouse who puts up with 10, 15 years of misery with an alcoholic, or an abuser, etc etc. how does it compare.?

There are posters in the boards who are in sexless, miserable, abusive marriages, have been for years and years, how come an A is deemed so much worse?
How come an A would have many 'say' they'd be out the door but they would be prepared to put up with all this other crap?

I'm just throwing this out there. Not intended to upset or disrespect anyone's views or situations, it was something that just came to my mind. Maybe it's because my marriage is well on the way to being a good one again, despite the A, so in a very very small way my Hs A has had a positive effect on our marriage. We both now realise what we have to lose and we are both committed to never taking each other for granted again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

To me cheating isn't the worst thing.It's on the list of things I can't personally tolerate but it is lower on my list of most horrible things than being physically abused or living with an emotional terrorist.
Others might feel it should be lumped in the same group and considered equally horrific and unforgivable.but they aren't me and I'm not them.Every one views it differently once it happens to them.That's when you know what you really are or aren't able to put up with in your marriage.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I read your thread, daisygirl, and found it very poignant. My reaction was that your personality and marriage were a bit different from what we see here usually. 

You struck me as a woman who remained compassionate and in love with her H even as he was committing himself to another woman. I realize that it's not that black and white, nor do I think your posts said that it was, but your attitude toward your H's transgressions seemed more naturally loving to me than many people's would have been. And I do think this probably has to do with both your and your H's personalities and the resultant dynamics of your marriage.

For many people, the giving of love, emotional or physical, to another person is too much of a wound to overcome. They see it through their own lens of hurt and pride (as would I). My sense is that you were seeing things compassionately through your H's lens as well.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

I lump cheating in with abuse. It's just as damaging.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Also, some people have occasionally commented here that there is some statistic that indicates that the pain of infidelity is worse than the pain of losing a child.

This would absolutely never, ever be true for me. Losing a child would probably end my own life.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thanks for your response scarlet. I agree with you. Being cheated on was truly devastating but as you pointed out, where in the list does it come? I personally would not tolerate any sort of physical abuse, that's definitely a deal breaker for me. Just for the record, strangely enough, infidelity was never a deal breaker for me ( H didn't know that of course).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Ovid said:


> I lump cheating in with abuse. It's just as damaging.


Is it?
Have you experience of both?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

For me... I think being physically and emotionally abused would be worse, but then again I have never experienced infidelity. 

In an abusive relationship you are constantly in fear of your own safety, and any argument can possibly end in you being hurt or killed. 

I used to have to go to work with bruises all over my neck from being strangled... after nights when my STBXH had strangled me until I was unconscious. Personally, I think I'd rather have to deal with an A. 

Surely the length and depth of the A play into things as well; just offering my 2 cents.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> Also, some people have occasionally commented here that there is some statistic that indicates that the pain of infidelity is worse than the pain of losing a child.
> 
> This would absolutely never, ever be true for me. Losing a child would probably end my own life.


Agree. The pain of infidelity was devastating, it really was like a loss, I felt like I was grieving. It hurt more than when my father passed away, and i w as very close to him, but losing a child is another matter completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

I would rather be physically hurt than have an adulteress wife.

But then again, I'm 6'3" 190 lbs with an extremely high pain tolerance threshold (physical).

Nothing could possibly be worse than the loss of my child. Nothing.

Edit to add: I have been stabbed and had my nose broken by an abusive gf.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Is it?
> Have you experience of both?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I have.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Pepper123 said:


> For me... I think being physically and emotionally abused would be worse, but then again I have never experienced infidelity.
> 
> In an abusive relationship you are constantly in fear of your own safety, and any argument can possibly end in you being hurt or killed.
> 
> ...


So sorry you had to experience that. I hope you are in a better place now. I agree maybe it depends on the infidelity? I don't know.
My father was emotionally abusive and a miserable drunk. My mother put up with it for 18 years. It Almost killed her, and he killed any love my mother had for him. My mum lived with constant stress. I swore I would never marry a man like my father, I didn't. My H is not a drinker, he has always been loving and affectionate, but he cheated! My father never did!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Ovid said:


> Yes I have.


Would you like to expand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Disenchanted said:


> I would rather be physically hurt than have an adulteress wife.
> 
> But then again, I'm 6'3" 190 lbs with an extremely high pain tolerance threshold (physical).
> 
> ...


I wonder if its a gender issue then? I think there's a thread here somewhere that discusses whether it is easier for women to forgive infidelity than men?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Would you like to expand?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was raised in an abusive home. Physical and emotional. I would easily compare that to the feelings I had on Dday.

I've seen several posts here on TAM that confirm my feeling that the two are comparable. 

The recovery is also comparable in my experience.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

An affair is physical and mental abuse. I got in my husband's face once and screamed at him to punch me - that it could not possibly hurt worse than what he already did to me....that I would much rather he do that than tell me another lie...and I meant it (of course he didn't). The stress of an affair, the possible contraction of STDs (possibly life threatening), the emotional toll, (add to that the emotional toll if you have children and try to protect them), the immeasurable damage on your psyche, the possible life threatening, or at least very damaging) physical damage that can be caused by depression, anger, etc - not eating, not drinking, over medicating, turning to alcohol......

Is it the worst thing - one to one?... I think it is.

Fortunately, we are in R


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Ovid said:


> I was raised in an abusive home. Physical and emotional. I would easily compare that to the feelings I had on Dday.
> 
> I've seen several posts here on TAM that confirm my feeling that the two are comparable.
> 
> The recovery is also comparable in my experience.


Thankyou.
Yes they are definitely comparable, I suffered extreme stress and anxiety after my Hs A.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> An affair is physical and mental abuse. I got in my husband's face once and screamed at him to punch me - that it could not possibly hurt worse than what he already did to me....that I would much rather he do that than tell me another lie...and I meant it (of course he didn't). The stress of an affair, the possible contraction of STDs (possibly life threatening), the emotional toll, (add to that the emotional toll if you have children and try to protect them), the immeasurable damage on your psyche, the possible life threatening, or at least very damaging) physical damage that can be caused by depression, anger, etc - not eating, not drinking, over medicating, turning to alcohol......
> 
> Is it the worst thing - one to one?... I think it is.
> 
> Fortunately, we are in R


Thx looking. Maybe I'm just forgetting how bloody awful it all was!
But maybe that's a good thing eh?

It's just I've seen threads where posters are obviously living in emotionally abusive relationships and are trying to fix it, but them go on to say 'well its not as if he's cheating on me, then I'd be gone'.
Do you understand where I'm coming from?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I wonder if its a gender issue then? I think there's a thread here somewhere that discusses whether it is easier for women to forgive infidelity than men?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well in my case (and in most I would assume) a physically abusive gf could be subdued, whereas it might not work the same way the other way around. There is a significantly different psychological dynamic there. I could see how a woman in a physically abusive relationship could feel more trapped.

I never hit her back or dominated her (ex gf) physically. 

And yes, it is my understanding that women are more hurt by the emotional betrayal whereas men are more hurt by the physical betrayal. So, a woman apparently is more likely to forgive a man for "physical indiscretions" but not for emotional ones.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Disenchanted- I agree, the emotional connection my H had to the OW hurt me far more than the physical aspect. It's the emotional connection they had that nearly destroyed my family. It's taking a lot longer to over come that aspect of the A.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I always thought that I could forgive anything... having lived through abuse and having been an AP (and knowing the depths those relationships can assume) I know now for certain I couldn't forgive either one. 

It took me 6 years to realize that. Once my emotional or physical safety is put in jeopardy I close a part of myself off that I don't believe could ever be recovered.

I also grew up in an unhappy, abusive home... and have many residual trust issues.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

IMO, what would be worse includes
1. physical violence towards me
2. rendering me bankrupt
3. giving me AIDs

maybe there are some others. A couple things that are interesting
1. If your partner cheated on you, the above three would be more likely to happen to you, hence keeping a lid on adultery would be a good idea.
2. More people (outside of this community) would agree that the above three are worse and you most likely would be able to more easily find more support for those problems, hence the need for this community.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

For my situation, cheating never occurred. But when she physically assaulted me, egged me on to hit her so others can see what I was doing to her on the outside that I was doing to her on her inside, kept coming at me and I wound up throwing a cup of water to stop her rage and attacking me again, she called the cops and said she was assaulted, in fear of her life because I had guns in the house and was belligerently drunk. 

The police came out to investigate, got both sides, saw there was no assault and that I was a responsible gun owner and CCW holder, I left that night and withdrew all my pre-marital money out of my checking account that she insisted I add her name to. 

Using the force of law to control someone under false allegations was the tipping point for me. And yes, she was one of the most controlling, critical and non-compromising wenches I've ever met.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Exactly. I'd have been all too happy to let my wife unload her emotional baggage on someone else lol.

Unfortunately, guys pretty much only develop the emotional connection to get into her pants. As my WW found out .


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Unfortunately, guys pretty much only develop the emotional connection to get into her pants. As my WW found out .

Ouch!! Thanks for that! Lol!
My Hs A was a long EA ( carried out by txt).'it didn't turn physical (sexual) until 4 weeks before it ended. I'm not going to go into how I know that now, but as I said, it's the emotional connection that almost destroyed us!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lonewolf8545 (Jan 12, 2013)

My wife was an alcoholic and had very bad depression problems. It was a nightmare and by the time I found out she was cheating I didn't care. I was already emotionally dead.

I think it can be the worst thing if your under the premise that you have a good marriage.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I think as you try to "rank" things that are mainly emotional you will find opinions vary widely based on experience. 

Is infidelity the "worst" thing? Probably for some, maybe not for others. The common link is I believe most people would agree it is bad, vey, very bad. 

Trying to argue that it is or is not the "worst" only serves to invalidate emotions. I am guessing by the sincere nature of your approach that is not your intent.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

For me yeah,it was the worst.I literally almost lost my life and almost took out some guys at work by accident with a coil crane.
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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Hmmm... To me, cheating is one of many ways for one spouse to betray their wedding vows. Is it the worst? I'd say no. For a hypothetical... One spouse withholding sex for years, and refusing to work on fixing the situation. The other spouse stays for the kids, or finances, or whatever, but has a drunken one night stand after years of putting up with it. Who's done the "worst" thing to the other?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

calvin said:


> For me yeah,it was the worst.I literally almost lost my life and almost took out some guys at work by accident with a coil crane.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I crashed my car, envisioned myself with my shot gun in mouth, lost my voice at least 6-7 times from screaming as loudly as I possibly could for as long as I possibly could and was very close to heart attack for an extended period of time.

Fun stuff.

I'd say anything that a partner can do to emotionally devastate you this much is equally bad. Including the type of self hating long term abuse creates.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

I'd rather get the **** kicked out of me. 

I would have rather died than gone through the agony of infidelity. 

My grandfather died the same year. My grandmother lamented the loss but she said "I know he still loves me." I started to tear up a bit and she began to apologize profusely. 

Because cheating is worse than death. Cheating is a choice to die to your spouse.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Acoa said:


> I think as you try to "rank" things that are mainly emotional you will find opinions vary widely based on experience.
> 
> Is infidelity the "worst" thing? Probably for some, maybe not for others. The common link is I believe most people would agree it is bad, vey, very bad.
> 
> Trying to argue that it is or is not the "worst" only serves to invalidate emotions. I am guessing by the sincere nature of your approach that is not your intent.


No it's not my intention, and thank you for pointing that out. I meant to state that earlier. All pain in relevant and we all hurt differently. This is why I am asking the question. It's not about putting the hurt in order of 'preference' ( for want of a better word ). I'm certainly not trying to invalidate anyone's feelings. I am, after all, a BS, so one would think I should be here claiming that being cheated on is the worse thing, because it certainly is awful! But I'm not. As I said earlier, my marriage is good now and getting better, despite, not because of Hs A.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

My wifes never got physical,though they did meet up a few times,she asked if she could date him,it tore me up bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

@Daisygirl, I think it is the deceit that does it for me. The fact that these actions were carried out behind your back ON PURPOSE while making a life that was a total lie. In abuse situations, there is no hiding it. As a kid I lived with physical and mental abuse and now as an adult, I think it was horrible, but not like what I have suffered at the hands of my wife. As I kid, I knew I would be getting out at some point, it was predictable, and I knew it was wrong (even though it took a few years to realize it wasn't my "fault")

With the affair, you just don't get the chance. It was carried out without your knowledge, without your input, and while pretending all was perfect at home (in my case).

The sex with another works if there is no decet (swingers). Not something I would ever agree to, but even swingers, I understand, feel this betrayal when the "rules" are broken. 

For me, it is the lying and deceit that are the deal breakers.

Since you are recovering and making things better and feeling pretty good, or at least looking forward...How do you think your outlook on this would change if this very afternoon you found out he was still in his affair, after all? Something to think about as it happens often, as we all know...


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

If I could sacrifice a limb to reverse what's happened I would.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Personally, I believe that most men may not be able to appreciate the consequences of having an emotionally/physically abusive spouse; and because of that find the comparison difficult.

So I'll speak as a man and say that in terms of the emotional devastation, it's hard for me to imagine much worse than what I went through with my wife's long term EA/PA. The dynamics of the intentional lying, deceit and betrayal with the resulting loss of self esteem, the feeling of sexual inadequacy, the hurt, the anger.

As a lot of you know, it's difficult to explain to someone who's never been through it.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

WhiteMousse said:


> I'd rather get the **** kicked out of me.
> 
> I would have rather died than gone through the agony of infidelity.
> 
> ...


Whitemouse, have you reconciled or did you marriage end? Maybe i would have a different view if we had t reconciled! Maybe the reconciliation is clouding my judgement!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

calvin said:


> My wifes never got physical,though they did meet up a few times,she asked if she could date him,it tore me up bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel your pain Calvin!
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> @Daisygirl, I think it is the deceit that does it for me.


This......

I suppose the level of hurt is directly proportionate to the level of trust you give someone else with your emotions and dedication to your "purported journey" together when they violate that trust in the greatest possible way.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

doc_martin said:


> @Daisygirl, I think it is the deceit that does it for me. The fact that these actions were carried out behind your back ON PURPOSE while making a life that was a total lie. In abuse situations, there is no hiding it. As a kid I lived with physical and mental abuse and now as an adult, I think it was horrible, but not like what I have suffered at the hands of my wife. As I kid, I knew I would be getting out at some point, it was predictable, and I knew it was wrong (even though it took a few years to realize it wasn't my "fault")
> 
> With the affair, you just don't get the chance. It was carried out without your knowledge, without your input, and while pretending all was perfect at home (in my case).
> 
> ...


You are right Doc, my outlook would probably be much different if we weren't successfully reconciling. H and I went through a false R once, so I know the signs. It's completely different now and a lot went on between both attempts at R. We separated and H finished the A before asking to R. He knows this is it. He will never have another chance!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I think it is along with abuse and disrespect(belittling).


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I think the OP is confusing statements that an affair or cheating is the worst thing to happen to many people. It might not be THE worst thing that CAN happen in a marriage - but it IS the worst thing that HAS happened in many people's marriages. 

Let's say that you're in a sexless, or abusive marriage. Yes, that would be horrible - especially if you were the victim of the abuse, or the one being denied sexually. Now add cheating to the mix. That makes it even worse for the victim.

Anyway for me personally, the real damage and pain was from the betrayal of trust. After being married for so long, raising kids together - facing family situations together, supporting each other, etc... having the safety of your marriage destroyed by cheating is a major blow. All of your history is now a closed chapter - all of your future together is now in question. Hopes, dreams, even financially - everything is thrown into turmoil. And for what? Because the WS needed a thrill - needed to fill a gap in their lives and they did it sneakily by cheating behind your back while continuing to enjoy whatever benefits they could from being married.

It is the complete betrayal that makes it the most damaging event in many peoples' marriages.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Whitemouse, have you reconciled or did you marriage end? My I would have a different view if we had t reconciled! Maybe the reconciliation is clouding my judgement!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We did not. To my shame, I begged her to come back. I told her I loved her, that I would always love her. She didn't even respond. 

If you take a look at my history you'll find my circumstances to be a little different than most. My ex plotted against me for a year. She stole $8000.00 from me the day she left but the worst thing was that the entire time she was plotting, she acted like (and allowed me to believe that) everything was perfectly fine. We made love a few days before she left, and the night before, we watched a movie cuddled up on the couch together. The next day I came home and she and all her things were gone. That was the first moment I knew something was wrong. 

It took me a *very* long time to understand what she truly is, because unlike most people in this kind of situation I was _not able to see what she is. I had to read about it._ The last time I saw her or heard her voice, I thought everything was fine. So I literally have not seen or heard from her since. When something like this happens the mind needs data to erase what it once knew, reinterpret, and come to a new understanding. I was not blessed (LOL) with seeing her wickedness. I had to slowly come to understand it afterwards, remembering lies, looking at credit cards, piecing together true history like a detective. 

But while I am slow to wrath like God, I am also like God in that my wrath is devastating. When I finally understood what had happened I hunted her down with detectives and lawyers(she drove 2000 miles away trying to hide) and divorced her. My brother, who is in the SF, utilized his unique advantages to chain a series of favors together to ensure a particularly nasty solution should I ever feel so inclined. 

My last text to her was after the divorce. I told her that if I ever saw her again, heard from her again, or experienced even the slightest bit of discomfort because of her, directly or otherwise, I would push a huge red button. 

People would likely call me an extremist. These people depreciate the horrors of infidelity and in so doing become a brand of blame-shifters themselves. 

All that was a very long-winded way for me to say no, I did not reconcile with her. : )


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I think it is along with abuse and disrespect(belittling).


I am not trying to be confrontational at all. But I must say that I do not, I cannot understand this.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I had a conversation with a close friends sister while H a d I were separated. Her H was a lazy drunk, he never attended family get togethers, had lost his job and was on occasions verbally abusive. He had embarrassed her on many occasions. Their marriage was a sham. When I told her why H and I were separated, she replied:
'Good for you, I'd never put up with it!'
I almost felt insulted. Her husband had been a lousy husband for many many years. My H had been a good husband and father for 16 years. I loved him deeply! I was heartbroken, but I still ALMOST felt like I wanted to defend him!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> H and I went through a false R once, so I know the signs. _Posted via Mobile Device_


I love playing Devil's advocate, so please don't be offended. But you know the signs from before. He will be better the next time at hiding. I am not making a comment directly in your case, just saying.

In my line of work, when someone asks me, "How will I know if the cancer is totally gone?", I reply "You die of something else...". And that is the truth. You never really know. I see recurrances and cancer's in the same area decades later. 

So if you get to live the rest of your lives with no further affairs, then you successfully have reconciled. And I'm jealous...


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Cheating is one of many things a spouse can do to their spouse to completely destroy them. Whether it's 'the worst' thing one can do is completely subjective - there is no way to quantify it. Every relationship is going to be different. All I can say is that it is by far the worst thing my husband has ever done to me.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Infidelity is a form of emotional abuse. And if there are STD's, physical.

I'm not minimizing the "classic" thought of physical abuse and I wouldn't rank one higher than another. 

Physical abuse, emotional abuse, infidelity.....that's like asking would you rather swallow acid, have your intestines slowly pulled out or have your privates ground with broken glass. Is one worse than another...I guess......but they are all in the same category that shouldn't happen between spouses.

Loss of a child eclipses all. You could do ANYTHING to me and it wouldn't compare with losing my children. When I see movies where a child dies, I cry. I try to hide it but I cry, I can't help it. I've ripped off toe nails, had a 1/2" drill go through my hand, I'll just grab a wad of paper towels, wrap it in duct tape then get back to work without a whimper...but watch the movie "Adam" and I'm a little sissy.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Doc I understand what you are saying and of course you are right, but I am willing to take the leap of faith that is required when reconciling. We are 10 months in and only now am I beginning to feel I can give myself emotionally 99% (it will never be 100% again). 

I won't go into it here but those that have been through it will tell you the difference between a false and a true R are staggering. Do I think he will ever cheat again? Impossible to say. I never thought he would cheat before. But I believe his A is truly over and the steps we have taken to address our issues and 'fix' our marriage will certainly help us to build a stronger marriage for the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

When a close loved one dies, under most circumstanes it is out of their control. Adultery is usually a thought out decision to betray someone they love or rather someone who loves them. Someone who they think has their back. I know I would risk my life to save my wife for example. My wife isn't the one that cheated on me BTW.

Its the betrayal. Like a traitor. It doesn't get much worse. Its cold blooded. You can't understand it.

Many here think the lying is what is so bad and not the sex for example. Well for me its the fact that the one you love most, turned on you and stabbed you in the back. The worst ones include someone else you love, like a best friend or relative. 

How bad it is explains why many cases end up with one partner commiting suicide. There have been several cases here where the wayward spouse has tried to commit suicide. One wayward wife said her husband (during reconcilliation) left one day, checked into a motel and killed himself. She thought they were going to make it.

I have searched several times for that thread and it may have been deleted. Several male posters having a very hard time have just quit posting. I can't help wondering what happened to them.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I feel your pain Calvin!
> X
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks daisy,I know you do.
When my brother died a few years ago it hurt,my wife was there for me and helped me get through it.
Being betrayed was much harder on me,it still hurts but things are getting better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lovingwife315 (Dec 10, 2012)

In my case the cheating could have been forgiven, but the giving up on the marriage, and family, not so much....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

When you discover cheating it's the death of your marriage. Sure, you can reconcile - but your old marriage is dead. Reconciliation is a brand new marriage.

The problem with the death of your marriage via cheating is that there is no body to grieve over. Nothing to bury. In fact, there is a caricature of your former spouse, mocking your old marriage just by existing.

That's what makes it tough.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> When you discover cheating it's the death of your marriage. Sure, you can reconcile - but your old marriage is dead. Reconciliation is a brand new marriage.
> 
> The problem with the death of your marriage via cheating is that there is no body to grieve over. Nothing to bury. In fact, there is a caricature of your former spouse, mocking your old marriage just by existing.
> 
> That's what makes it tough.


Ugh...God.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

calvin said:


> Ugh...God.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know!!
My own thread is making me trigger!
The irony!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

calvin said:


> Ugh...God.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But you get over it, eventually. And you focus on the good things in your life (like your kids). 

But I think a piece of me will always have grief/anger/sadness/regret over the death of my marriage. Might be able to successfully bury the grief, etc. - but it will still be there, just deep down. So the challenge is in accepting that this is how it is from now on.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Cedarman said:


> But you get over it, eventually. And you focus on the good things in your life (like your kids).
> 
> But I think a piece of me will always have grief/anger/sadness/regret over the death of my marriage. Might be able to successfully bury the grief, etc. - but it will still be there, just deep down. So the challenge is in accepting that this is how it is from now on.


Wishing you the best for your future Cedarman.
There IS life after infidelity.
We are all survivors!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Wishing you the best for your future Cedarman.
> There IS life after infidelity.
> We are all survivors!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. Best to you too.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> But you get over it, eventually. And you focus on the good things in your life (like your kids).
> 
> But I think a piece of me will always have grief/anger/sadness/regret over the death of my marriage. Might be able to successfully bury the grief, etc. - but it will still be there, just deep down. So the challenge is in accepting that this is how it is from now on.


I get that.I'm not being mocked by my wife by her just being here,the old her is back and she knows how much was almost lost and even though my brother is gone I'd love to have him back,it would take a miracle,I have my wife back with an understanding that I will bolt if it ever happends again.
I consider us being together a small miracle but yes,its still the worst thing that every happend to me.
I know you both are doing better daisy,shows you there is hope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

There is always hope, Calvin, even on the darkest days!
hopefully those days are behind us now though!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I have no regrets but I will never go through it again.
My wife seen the pain I was in close up,she knows she did this.
She is doing all she can to help me.
We will make it,we're almost there.
I remember telling her if she would have got my gun and shot me in the back of the head when I wasnt looking it would have been more humain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

calvin said:


> I get that.I'm not being mocked by my wife by her just being here,the old her is back and she knows how much was almost lost and even though my brother is gone I'd love to have him back,it would take a miracle,I have my wife back with an understanding that I will bolt if it ever happends again.
> I consider us being together a small miracle but yes,its still the worst thing that every happend to me.
> I know you both are doing better daisy,shows you there is hope.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe "mocked" was a bad choice of words. I mean that my old marriage is dead, yet the players are very much alive. And we're dealing with each other on almost a daily basis because of the kids. So even though my marriage is over - we're still bound at the hip (maybe another bad choice of phrase) because of our children. It would be so much easier if there was just a clean and permanent break - but that can't happen.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Maybe "mocked" was a bad choice of words. I mean that my old marriage is dead, yet the players are very much alive. And we're dealing with each other on almost a daily basis because of the kids. So even though my marriage is over - we're still bound at the hip (maybe another bad choice of phrase) because of our children. It would be so much easier if there was just a clean and permanent break - but that can't happen.


I get what your saying cedar,my WW would not cross the physical line in the sand,she tried to beak it off a few times.
She knew it was wrong.EA or PA It does matter to me but either way,it still hurts like a b!tch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

My ex left me a broken bitter man. I tried to commit suicide. When I finally found the courage to live again I decided to take out my hate and anger on the entire female population by becoming a very successful pickup artist. I bedded lots of women and didn't care about one of them. Her infideliy changed me right to the core. Thankfully I didn't stay in that dark place or I wouldn't have met let alone been able to love my wife. So you can imagine what my answer will be as to whether infidelity is the worst thing one person can do to another.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Doc I understand what you are saying and of course you are right, but I am willing to take the leap of faith that is required when reconciling. We are 10 months in and only now am I beginning to feel I can give myself emotionally 99% (it will never be 100% again).
> 
> I won't go into it here but those that have been through it will tell you the difference between a false and a true R are staggering. Do I think he will ever cheat again? Impossible to say. I never thought he would cheat before. But I believe his A is truly over and the steps we have taken to address our issues and 'fix' our marriage will certainly help us to build a stronger marriage for the future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same here...10 months into R...had to (no...chose to) endure 4 DDs. almost killed me...almost. But I learned how strong I really am...was dealing with the death of my brother at the same time. The additional circumstances surrounding WHs affair could have easily broken me, but I had my 2 girls who needed me. I was the only certain parent in their life to hold and comfort when needed. I never had thoughts of suicide - would never think of that. I'm too imporant to my family for that and I love life, but for awhile, I stopped breathing, stopped eating, stopped feeling, stopped being the mom that I was. When my 9 year old brought me tissues because she saw me cry, thinking I was mourning my brother, I knew I had to push forward. My daughters saved me. They gave me strength. They gave me reason. They gave me time....and we are still a family...and they never knew that we almost weren't.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Heck! I reckon that she could have taken out her .45 and shot me!

But, in retrospect, a gross violation of our wedding vows by the woman that I had so lovingly committed myself to before God, family, and friends, is nearly about as bad!


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

calvin said:


> I have no regrets but I will never go through it again.
> My wife seen the pain I was in close up,she knows she did this.
> She is doing all she can to help me.
> We will make it,we're almost there.
> ...


I think I said something like that too - just shoot me and get it over with...wow...of course I didn't mean that I wanted to be killed, but the pain was so bad, I felt like I was dying a slow death.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

daiseygirl 41, only you are qualified to say if your marriage is worthy of being repaired. I know I will get shot at for this, but I feel there's a big difference in a woman cheating on her husband, especially if he is the sole financial provider for the relationship.
But let her cheat, then bare one or two children from having an affair, or affairs, then she has crossed the line of no return.
The only thing that might be worse would be if she set her dummy up to be murdered by one of her studs.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

The difference is the relationships in which their is abuse or constant abuse (physical, emotional, constantly cheating etc) are relationships in which are destructive. The relationships in which are going well and the two individuals knowingly entered and embraced each other to have a monogamous relationships are the ones hard hit.


Yes id say its the worse thing a spouse can do in a healthy relationship. 

Abuse is not found in healthy relationships. However people can have healthy relationships and have so many solid years of great fun, love etc and then cheat. Basically the cheating proves or attests that it all meant nothing.


That's how i view it at least. All the stuff you listed is found in genuinely terrible relationships that should not even be in existence. However for people's own reasons they decide to stay in a horrible cycle (slavery as in being forced to stay with an exception). The person who however was in a solid loving good marriage and has their spouse cheat on them all of a sudden is who we feel more compassion for given that they HAD a great solid relationship. They played their cards right and were of good mental health and a good relationship and that was all destroyed. 


For people who wish to enter a truly monogamous relationships and in which such relationships are ACTUALLY HEALTHY, cheating has to be the worst thing you can do. Because in such healthy relationships abuse wont exist. So outside of one day deciding to abuse them cheating has to be the worst.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I think I said something like that too - just shoot me and get it over with...wow...of course *I didn't mean that I wanted to be killed*, but the pain was so bad, I felt like I was dying a slow death.


I did. And I tried very hard to make it happen. But I'm feeling much better now.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

hookares said:


> daiseygirl 41, only you are qualified to say if your marriage is worthy of being repaired. I know I will get shot at for this, but I feel there's a big difference in a woman cheating on her husband, especially if he is the sole financial provider for the relationship.
> But let her cheat, then bare one or two children from having an affair, or affairs, then she has crossed the line of no return.
> The only thing that might be worse would be if she set her dummy up to be murdered by one of her studs.


Maybe there is a difference, I don't know, but I should think the pain is the same. 
No shooting on this thread hookares, it's a very sensitive subject I know, and we all have our own pain to deal with. You've been through a hell of a lot and you are entitled to feel the way you do.
All our circumstances are unique.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I will tell you, there is one thing worse than getting cheated on: getting cheated on AND dumped.

my marriage was miserable, for both of us, and on dday when I thought I may have been able to break her out of her affair fog and work on R I honestly rationalized that her affair was a blessing in disguise. Even though she said she was checked out, she was still physically there and I had so much hope - but alas dday #2 my hopes were crushed and I realized there was no coming back from that one.

It was a double punch, I can't tell which hurt more, the affair or being rejected so she could continue to pursue other men. The overall experience was by far the most painful thing I've experienced, and will continue to experience as I watch my son go through life without a single home.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I keep on reading this in the forums, that being cheated on is the worse thing that can happen in a marriage, but is it really?
> Don't get me wrong, my Hs A was absolutely devastating to me and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but for 17 years we had a fairly good marriage, no major issues, and now we are well on the way to fixing it. So from the start of the A until now it's been about 19 months. Our marriage is well on the way to being fixed and we are happy again. Now compare that with a spouse who puts up with 10, 15 years of misery with an alcoholic, or an abuser, etc etc. how does it compare.?
> 
> There are posters in the boards who are in sexless, miserable, abusive marriages, have been for years and years, how come an A is deemed so much worse?
> ...


Cheating has to be the worst thing that can happen to an ACTUALLY GOOD monogamous relationship/marriage. All trust is gone and all good is gone. I do not factor in abuse as its an entirely different game and is never found in good relationships. Abuse shows so many more issues than cheating, cheating is something that can happen to any to any healthy couple its fuel lies in that humans are not designed for monogamy especially males, and yes i am taking the evolution stance on this. I say this because the science has proven this and that is why its so hard to be monogamous although its very possible.



daisygirl 41 said:


> I wonder if its a gender issue then? I think there's a thread here somewhere that discusses whether it is easier for women to forgive infidelity than men?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is (in my experience). I do divorce for a living

Women file for divorce 3/4 of the time roughly majority of the time divorce is the result of someone being at their wits end. Often the case of abuse or cheating. From experience women file for divorce after husband has cheated on them not once but several times. When men file for divorce its usually due to cheating or they found another woman and don't want to lose assets. So they divorce the wife before she can find out.


Men seem to file for divorce almost immediately after being cheated on (it seems) while women don't and seem to wait till more problems build on, or the husband cheats again/several more times.... Don't believe the lies few divorces are because of "financial issues".


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

bfree said:


> I did. And I tried very hard to make it happen. *But I'm feeling much better now. [/*QUOTE]
> 
> Glad you're still here with us...there are better places to be, but there are also worse....and a least here you can always find some good company


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> bfree said:
> 
> 
> > I did. And I tried very hard to make it happen. *But I'm feeling much better now. [/*QUOTE]
> ...


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Hooks story is one of the worst I have ran across here,I feel for him.
Makes what happend to me seem like a walk in the park.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> It is (in my experience). I do divorce for a living


*Gold:* What is your experience when both spouses have cheated?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP- to your original question... the cheating certainly sucked, but the extent of the lying and blame shifting was every bit as disgusting to me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Is it?
> Have you experience of both?


I have experienced both abuse (emotional/physical) and infidelity.

In the marriage to by son's father, I left him when I first found out that he was cheating. Both the abuse and the cheating were on the same level. The abuse was a slow burn meaning that it was not constant and got worse slowly. By the time I found out about the cheating I was ready to leave him. So the cheating was just one more thing on the trash heap. The damage done to me was over a long time with the abuse so there was no acute pain. It really felt liberating once I was able to leave him.


About a year after I remarried I found out that my new husband cheated on me the entire time we dated, were engaged and married. This was a shock to me as I thought things were wonderful between us. The pain from finding this out was horrible. I could not even eat for a while. It took me month to be able to even concentrate enough at work to be productive. I think that it hit me so hard because it came out of the blue. It was the last thing I expected from him. I went into a deep depression that lasted at least a couple of years.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The pain from finding this out was horrible. I could not even eat for a while. It took me month to be able to even concentrate enough at work to be productive. I think that it hit me so hard because it came out of the blue. It was the last thing I expected from him. I went into a deep depression that lasted at least a couple of years.


Yep, this is how it is for most betrayed spouses who were vested in the marriage. Maybe cheating isn't the "worst" thing one can do, but considering most betrayed need counselling for the trauma, lose 30lbs or so (the typical post dday weight loss) and go through atleast 2 years of depression and emotional hardship is a pretty good indication that infidelity is right up there amongst the nastiest of things to deal with.


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## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

emotional abuse is the worst.
if a H/W abuse her/his spouse emotionally, (s)he would take his/her side of family to do the same toward his/her H/W, slowly,painfully.
taking & consuming the victim's soul. and that is the wound that really takes the time to heal. people wont get out the same anymore.

i don't mean to disrespect. but emotional abuse IMO is the worst of all.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

stopandmakecoffee said:


> emotional abuse is the worst.
> if a H/W abuse her/his spouse emotionally, (s)he would take his/her side of family to do the same toward his/her H/W, slowly,painfully.
> taking & consuming the victim's soul. and that is the wound that really takes the time to heal. people wont get out the same anymore.
> 
> i don't mean to disrespect. but emotional abuse IMO is the worst of all.



I can see where it is that you are coming from, but I still find it rather difficult to differentiate infidelity/cheating from emotional/mental abuse.

If infidelity can not be categorized as a form of emotional abuse, then exactly what is it?


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

It depends. If I was deeply in love with my wife, her cheating would kill me. If it meant that she preferred another man to me I couldn't imagine the pain. And if she showed no remorse, even worse.

As the song goes, 

"When a man loves a woman it's hard to understand
How she could find more pleasure in the arms of another man."

But physical and emotional abuse in a relationship is pretty awful too. I can't really say which one is worse.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

No murder and child abuse would be worse.


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

I think if you compared it to being shot,burned,beat until you passed out,your kids stolen ect ect these are a whole lot worse then somebody cheating on you.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

dubbizle said:


> I think if you compared it to being shot,burned,beat until you passed out,your kids stolen ect ect these are a whole lot worse then somebody cheating on you.


I've been beat into bloody pulp until passed out, I'd take that over being cheated on any day.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

dubbizle said:


> I think if you compared it to being shot,burned,beat until you passed out,your kids stolen ect ect these are a whole lot worse then somebody cheating on you.


I'd take a bullet or be beaten to a pulp to know my W was faithful and respected and admired me anyday. What hurt wasn't the cheating, it was finding out she didn't respect or admire me or have faith in our marriage.

And would I be willing to cast aside my W in order to have an abducted child back?? That is asking to pick whom is more important, who gets your love first... It would be no easy choice, however in reality, shouldn't I expect adults to be able to take care of themselves and be required to be there for my dependent child? I guess that is why I'm not married any longer, because I gave priority to parenting over my ex W.


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## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> I can see where it is that you are coming from, but I still find it rather difficult to differentiate infidelity/cheating from emotional/mental abuse.
> 
> If infidelity can not be categorized as a form of emotional abuse, then exactly what is it?


it is one of the form of emotional abuse too, and i agree.
and yes you are right too.environmental & culture also make big influence toward one's self image and all.
and where i come from, family never actually quit put their hands into the cookie jar even the child is an adult & have family of his/her own  but that's my reality, so there was my opinion


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Cheating is by far the worst thing a couple can face (except losing a child). The difference between cheating and abuse (physical or substance) is the emotional betrayal!
When the person you trust the most in this world betrays you in such a sneaky, self gratifying, narcissistic fashion, this is just hard to accept. Yes, an affair may ultimately lead to a better marriage, but the statement "honey, I'm not feeling connected with you and we really need help" is a better choice than f'ing the pool boy! Also, how about catching or passing along a disease, pregnancy, loss of a job and other consequences????
I often believe that when an affair takes on a life of it's own, it's addictive behavior. I can be strong and help my spouse deal with her addictions and get her help. I need help of my own when dealing with her affair! Tomorrow marks the 3 year anniversary of the "physical" part of her infidelity. Her addiction to substances is over for her but the infidelity hurt continues for me!


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Losing a child and cheating are two different types of losses. The only thing they have in common is that most marriages don't survive either one. In my case, cheating is the worst thing. Shortly after we got married I told him that if he ever wants to be with someone else, don't sneak around and do it, just tell me up front and let me go. He sustained an 8 year 'friendship' witha co-worker who left the same job 1.5 years after he left it. He claims he never knew her very well, he just vented to her "by phone". Never knew where she lived, worked etc. Yet she was conveniently located in the middle of the tri-county area between his job and our home. He said she isn't to blame for the divorce I eventually filed although she was present in the last 5 years (I think she was present for 11 years) of our 13 year marriage. It is difficult to look at him everyday knowing the kind of sneaky, convoluted thinking he had to have had in order to sustain an '8' year secret friendship for so long blame-shifting, denying, gaslighting etc. when I had suspicions. Worse he was venting to a woman (or leech) 7 years younger than him and 10 years younger than me, seeking her out for "advice". Up until today he denies the whole thing. He is sick now but I wonder how much of it is his guilty conscience.

The death of a child is not due to seething, selfish, calculating, underhanded betrayal by a party of two...the death of a marriage often is.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

So I think we can all agree, the death of a child is by far the worse thing that could happen to us, but my question was is cheating the worse thing A SPOUSE can do to us? Unless they murder our child, then the dying child scenario is really a no brainer.

Now there's the murder, rape, kidnap scenario! Wasn't really thinking of extremes but I suppose those things are pretty rare in a marriage, so again, lets take those out of the scenario!

So I appreciate all your posts. What I have gathered is that for those of us who have been cheated on, then yes, cheating is the worse thing a spouse could do to us, and because of MY experience I have to say it was absolutely devastating, but again, I am recovering because H and I have R, for those who aren't, their pain remains and they are still feeling the loss.

I didn't start this thread for us to compare our pain, who gets the pain medal! No we have all been hurt and our pain is relevant to us. For me, as awful as it was, I don't class what my H did as abuse. Of course it was emotionally devastating, but I had counselling and was beginning to regain my self respect and dignity before H asked to come home. I was getting my life back together and beginning to move on. To me, being physically or mentally abused over a long period if time would have been more difficult to overcome and recover from. I could never in imagine myself wanting to reconcile with a physically abusive man. The thought of living in fear for the rest of my life is something I can't imagine. Before anyone asks, I do not live in fear that my H will cheat again. If it happens, he's out the door for good, he knows that, I am a much stronger person now and I do not have the fear of losing him like I did before. I've gained a lot of emotional strength through my experience and the confidence that I now know I can manage without him if I really had to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

BTW, please allow me to make a last note. In addition to having a track record for making and keeping committments, this is the reason I have stayed and remarried him: Luke 16:18 Jesus says: 
Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. 
I am bitter and trying to get out of it, by no means perfect, not even close to being the Christian I used to be, but trying, trying trying until my God fixes things.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> So I think we can all agree, the death of a child is by far the worse thing that could happen to us, but my question was is cheating the worse thing A SPOUSE can do to us? Unless they murder our child, then the dying child scenario is really a no brainer.
> 
> Now there's the murder, rape, kidnap scenario! Wasn't really thinking of extremes but I suppose those things are pretty rare in a marriage, so again, lets take those out of the scenario!
> 
> ...


No.

We don't all agree.

Would you rather have someone be taken away from you yet know they love you or have them choose to reject you?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm sorry you are going through this RRT, look to God for strength, he can't fix your marriage though.'it sounds like your H is a serial cheater. You need to find the strength to leave this man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

WhiteMousse said:


> No.
> 
> We don't all agree.
> 
> Would you rather have someone be taken away from you yet know they love you or have them choose to reject you?


In what context?
My father died. He adored me. My H cheated, the pain was worse.
I would prefer neither.
Are you asking would I prefer the death of my child or my H cheating? I'm not even going to answer that.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> In what context?
> My father died. He adored me. My H cheated, the pain was worse.
> I would prefer neither.
> Are you asking would I prefer the death of my child or my H cheating? I'm not even going to answer that.
> ...


It's obviously a no win kind of hypothetical. I just vehemently disagree with your statement. "We can all agree losing a child is worst." 

Absolutely not.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

WhiteMousse said:


> It's obviously a no win kind of hypothetical. I just vehemently disagree with your statement. "We can all agree losing a child is worst."
> 
> Absolutely not.


I stand corrected!
Do you have children?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: Is cheating really the worst thing a spouse can do to you?*

From a Christian perspective, there are only 3 acceptable "outs" in legitimately seeking divorce:


Abandonment
Infidelity(both Emotional or Physical)
Abuse of a Spouse or Child( Mental, Physical, or Sexual)

The context of the question is *"the worst thing that a spouse **can do."* 

I'm in total agreement that murdering a spouse or child, byfar, trumps anything. In fact, there are both severe criminal and civil sanctions in place for those who unfortunately choose to go that route.

But in the context of the marital union itself, infidelity/adultery, albeit it physical or emotional, is the lurid process of largely laying waste to and committing homicide to the relationship itself in a narcistic, selfish manner. 

But unlike murdering another person, there are only civil sanctions(usually involving child custody, support, and property) that may be selectively levied against the adulterer, the "murderer of the marriage" so to speak, and that ultimately coming through either some family court judge or jurist!


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

WS *and* BS here...

I think cheating is the worst thing a spouse can do.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

old timer said:


> WS *and* BS here...
> 
> I think cheating is the worst thing a spouse can do.


I could'nt agree more
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> It's obviously a no win kind of hypothetical. I just vehemently disagree with your statement. "We can all agree losing a child is worst."
> 
> Absolutely not.


I don't think that any one person can determine what would be the worst thing that could happen to another. Perhaps, it is something different for each of us.

But if you do not have children then it is impossible for you to be objective about this. As a mother I know that, for me, there could be no pain worse than that of losing a child. In fact, B1 will confirm that I have told him many times that I can handle anything, anything at all, and I have handled more than the average amount of suffering for a person my age in this lifetime. But, if I were to lose a child that would be the end for me. Although I have five children, losing even one would do me in. I could not/would not survive until the end of the day. B1 and I came very close to losing our youngest son three years ago.... something we have not shared on TAM. Although he is still with us, I am still haunted by how close we came to losing him. It changed me as a person. I will never really be the same. Today, he is a normal, healthy 17 y/o, but I saw a glimpse of my life without him and it was unbearable.

Edited to add: This isn't really what the title of the thread was asking. My apologies.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I'm sorry you are going through this RRT, look to God for strength, he can't fix your marriage though.'it sounds like your H is a serial cheater. You need to find the strength to leave this man.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't underestimate God. He may choose not to fix my marriage but it will be fixed one way or another by the outcome He deems best. One thing for sure, He lays out consequences for adultery.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I don’t remember if it was on this forum or another one, but there was a BH who did experience the death of a child. It was sort of that point where his wife went off the deep end and began to cheat. The cheating was worse in his opinion because while the death of his child was tragic, it was not an intentional hurt done to him by a loved one when she should have been there for him too. He was struggling with forgiveness because she was also deeply hurt by the death and not thinking clearly... but she took it out on herself and the marriage instead of looking to it for support, security, and comfort. 

I’ve also heard from women that say being raped was less of a emotional trauma for the same reasons. The person who cheats on you is supposed to be the one who loves you and is watching out for you. You don’t have to sleep next to your rapist or try to forgive; Unless you are talking physical abuse like that in the marriage. 

And in my own; sexless, emotionally abusive, etc. The cheating was almost a symptom of these other things rather than the source... They are all hard to recover from and different kinds of hurt.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Count me in, Punch me in the face but don't cheat.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

EI said:


> I don't think that any one person can determine what would be the worst thing that could happen to another. Perhaps, it is something different for each of us.
> 
> But if you do not have children then it is impossible for you to be objective about this. As a mother I know that, for me, there could be no pain worse than that of losing a child. In fact, B1 will confirm that I have told him many times that I can handle anything, anything at all, and I have handled more than the average amount of suffering for a person my age in this lifetime. But, if I were to lose a child that would be the end for me. Although I have five children, losing even one would do me in. I could not/would not survive until the end of the day. B1 and I came very close to losing our youngest son three years ago.... something we have not shared on TAM. Although he is still with us, I am still haunted by how close we came to losing him. It changed me as a person. I will never really be the same. Today, he is a normal, healthy 17 y/o, but I saw a glimpse of my life without him and it was unbearable.
> 
> Edited to add: This isn't really what the title of the thread was asking. My apologies.


No one is objective about anything.

Except me. I'm always objective.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

EI, I too cannot imagine anything worse than losing one of my children! It's almost to unbearable to think about. Thank you once more for sharing.
A gender specific instinct again maybe?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Count me in, Punch me in the face but don't cheat.


Especially in the US where there are serious consequences for a punching...It's tangible, hard evidence. Who can touch or measure the contents of a deceitful, sneaky, conniving mind? What motivates and triggers it? Who can see it coming? Every other catastrophe gives a warning ahead of time, earthquake, hurricane, tsunami. No one is schooled before marriage, on the warning signs of the impending catastrophe of adultery. Even my own father's philandering did not prepare me well in early adulthood. It's a premeditated, preemptive strike on your own side - or under the category of friendly fire. I have never in my life thought thinking like he did, even existed.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

RightfulRiskTaker said:


> Especially in the US where there are serious consequences for a punching...It's tangible, hard evidence. Who can touch or measure the contents of a deceitful, sneaky, conniving mind? What motivates and triggers it? Who can see it coming? Every other catastrophe gives a warning ahead of time, earthquake, hurricane, tsunami. No one is schooled before marriage, on the warning signs of the impending catastrophe of adultery. Even my own father's philandering did not prepare me well in early adulthood. It's a premeditated, preemptive strike on your own side - or under the category of friendly fire. I have never in my life thought thinking like he did, even existed.


Everyone should read the TAM stickies before getting married!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

EI said:


> I don't think that any one person can determine what would be the worst thing that could happen to another. Perhaps, it is something different for each of us.
> 
> But if you do not have children then it is impossible for you to be objective about this. As a mother I know that, for me, there could be no pain worse than that of losing a child. In fact, B1 will confirm that I have told him many times that I can handle anything, anything at all, and I have handled more than the average amount of suffering for a person my age in this lifetime. But, if I were to lose a child that would be the end for me. Although I have five children, losing even one would do me in. I could not/would not survive until the end of the day. B1 and I came very close to losing our youngest son three years ago.... something we have not shared on TAM. Although he is still with us, I am still haunted by how close we came to losing him. It changed me as a person. I will never really be the same. Today, he is a normal, healthy 17 y/o, but I saw a glimpse of my life without him and it was unbearable.
> 
> Edited to add: This isn't really what the title of the thread was asking. My apologies.


In all seriousness, I think that we grow to adapt to whatever tragedy we encounter. For a long time I believed that if I were to lose my wife I would lose my entire life. That I would simply die. 

Well, the marriage died but I did not. I have done what needed to be done. I think you will too. We all will.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Racer said:


> I don’t remember if it was on this forum or another one, but there was a BH who did experience the death of a child. It was sort of that point where his wife went off the deep end and began to cheat. The cheating was worse in his opinion because while the death of his child was tragic, it was not an intentional hurt done to him by a loved one when she should have been there for him too. He was struggling with forgiveness because she was also deeply hurt by the death and not thinking clearly... but she took it out on herself and the marriage instead of looking to it for support, security, and comfort.
> 
> I’ve also heard from women that say being raped was less of a emotional trauma for the same reasons. The person who cheats on you is supposed to be the one who loves you and is watching out for you. You don’t have to sleep next to your rapist or try to forgive; Unless you are talking physical abuse like that in the marriage.
> 
> And in my own; sexless, emotionally abusive, etc. The cheating was almost a symptom of these other things rather than the source... They are all hard to recover from and different kinds of hurt.


I have never shared, so I am not the one your refer to, however I have experienced both. Lost twins due to pre-mature births. It probably would be more painful to lose one of my older sons (I have one 19 yrs and one 22 yrs).

I am a BH. Previously married 23 years. Most was a story-book type of marriage. ExWW cheated with a co-worker for a little more than a year. ExWW also had at least a EA with my former best friend from childhood. He and his wife are now divorcing. She is still a good friend.

My younger 19 year old son lived with my exWW after I decided to leave about a 1 1/2 years ago, 8 months after first DDay. My 19 year old son was lied to, and refuses to talk to me. Not sure what I did, but I know he was lied to by my ex (my 22 year old has verified this to me).

Remarried now. Much better place to be, but still has little ups and downs.

My opinion is that the continued betrayal of my ex lying to my son is on par with her affairs. All of it is worse than the death of my pure little babies. May they rest in peace from the place they came from.

Death is a loss, but it happens with a feeling that it might have been their time. They didn't choose.

Betrayal and the continued lying are pure evil. It is bitter, sour, and nasty. The best part is when they (WS) find God, and continue lying to attempt look good for their friends and family. Lol! How smart is that? Hope she can fool Him too. Jk! 

The strange thing is I am decent to her, and wish her well. I DO NOT say this to pat myself on the back. It just makes life better to try to let it go.

Today I feel that the betrayal is still affecting me. My sweet new wife probably thinks I am crazy at times, due to my stupid little wounds and dumb things that may trigger memories.

*I feel the best thing about a betrayal is that it allows us to taste the aweful, so that we can someday more fully enjoy the sweet.*


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Getting punched in the face is one thing... getting kicked, strangled, threatened repeatedly is something else. It is the repeated fear of the person that makes abuse difficult to get past. 

Unless you have lived through both, not sure anyone can say one is worse than the other. Towards the end I could not have cared if my ex cheated on me, but being afraid for your life and well being is a different story.


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## NotDoneYet (Oct 6, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Now compare that with a spouse who puts up with 10, 15 years of misery with an alcoholic, or an abuser, etc etc. how does it compare.?
> 
> There are posters in the boards who are in sexless, miserable, abusive marriages, have been for years and years, how come an A is deemed so much worse?
> How come an A would have many 'say' they'd be out the door but they would be prepared to put up with all this other crap?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If neglect is death by poison, an affair is death by blunt object - much more sudden, alarmingly painful, and uniformly traumatic. Lots of people whose marriages die slowly can't even point to a specific reason, but with an affair there's something very specific to blame, and to the BS their world is split in two - there's "before the affair" and "after the affair". If you don't know the exact cause you don't have much to ruminate on, but the BS thinks of the affair constantly for months and years to the near exclusion of any other thought. Affairs are truly hell.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I think the death of a child would be the worst thing to happen to a couple - no question.

But that is like comparing apples to oranges. I thought the OP was talking about the worst thing one spouse can do to another.

So for the death of a child - what would be worse - a child dying by accident or illness vs a child killed by whatever means and one spouse lying about it to the other spouse? 

ANYTHING is made worse by lying and betrayal. That is why cheating, short of the death of child, or murder or physical abuse is the worst thing one spouse can do to another.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Maybe it a very gender specific pointed difference, but I would rather be physically abused than go through adultery (combination of mental and emotional abuse, deceit and physical betrayal).

It seems that this is nearly universal among BHs here. BWs would rather be cheated on then enslaved and devalued, it seems.

There is nothing my WW could have done to me to more completely destroy me, my sense of self worth, my ultimate meaning in life and my perceived orientation to the universe as an individual.

I really can't think of any other thing that could cause that in me to that extent, except the loss of one of my children, maybe.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> We did not. To my shame, I begged her to come back. I told her I loved her, that I would always love her. She didn't even respond.
> 
> If you take a look at my history you'll find my circumstances to be a little different than most. My ex plotted against me for a year. She stole $8000.00 from me the day she left but the worst thing was that the entire time she was plotting, she acted like (and allowed me to believe that) everything was perfectly fine. We made love a few days before she left, and the night before, we watched a movie cuddled up on the couch together. The next day I came home and she and all her things were gone. That was the first moment I knew something was wrong.
> 
> ...


Lol, I can just imagine you quoting Ezekiel 25:17 before pushing the red button.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Cedarman said:


> I think the death of a child would be the worst thing to happen to a couple - no question..


I just disagree. A death has a definate "closing the chapter" finality to it. You can focus on the grieving part and not so many "what if I try". (It'd be different is you were somehow responsible like a car accident or whatever and faced forgiveness of self) Adultery is a lingering pain and like LovemyTruck stated, A CHOICE.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Racer said:


> I just disagree. A death has a definate "closing the chapter" finality to it. You can focus on the grieving part and not so many "what if I try". (It'd be different is you were somehow responsible like a car accident or whatever and faced forgiveness of self) Adultery is a lingering pain and like LovemyTruck stated, A CHOICE.


I maintain that it is comparing apples to oranges. I thought the thread was the worst thing a spouse can do. Death of a child is outside of this, unless one spouse murders the child.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Cedarman said:


> I maintain that it is comparing apples to oranges. I thought the thread was the worst thing a spouse can do. Death of a child is outside of this, unless one spouse murders the child.


Thanks for pointing that out again Cedarman.
This about one spouse to another. NOT the worse thing that could happen to a couple.
It's also not about who hurts the most.
Again hurt is relevant to each individual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

I was beaten into unconsciousness in a bar by a group of bikers. Her cheating on me was worse.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

My girlfriend stabbed me in the chest and broke my nose. Was a walk in the park by comparison.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Is it the worse thing MY spouse could do? Yes. Is it the worse thing A spouse could do? No.

It all comes down to your personal situation.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Can't read the whole thread. I've been cheated on by a long term bf and I don't think that comes close. 
I can say that I think what I went through was horrible. He told he that he would be there for me if we had a child, that he wanted to be an involved father. We talked and talked. I told him that I suffered from depression and was concerned about sleep deprivation and hormones making me depressed. He said he would help me and be there for us.
We had been together eight years. Three weeks before she was due he informed me that he didn't have to do anything to help because he worked full time. 
He acted like he hated us. He got irate if I wanted to leave for half an hour, he became emotionally and physically abusive. 
I had double ear infections in both ears. He "let" me go to the dr and my ear was so closed up they had to numb it and then put in a wick to get the medicine in it. He refused to take any time off to let me rest.
He would start fights for no reason. He threatened suicide twice and locked himself in the bathroom, I had the police out twice.
He stopped taking his antidepressants without telling me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

bfree said:


> I was beaten into unconsciousness in a bar by a group of bikers. Her cheating on me was worse.


I'd prefer the bikers,less painfull
When her Grandparents past I was there for her,she was a wreck,when her aunt died I was there.
There were other deaths and I did the best I could to comfort her.
In fairness,she did do the same for me,she helped me from losing it.
When I needed her the most,she told me to help myself,there was nothing she could do for me.
She had all the time in the world for the ex- con but not me.
Hurts bad,real bad.
At least she took it slow and it didnt get to far but I want to take a knife and dig and cut the hurt out of me.
She's doing all she can now,she's scared I might walk,so am I but I doubt it.
Sometimes I still cant believe this.
Just a bad day,be better tommorow...I know it will.
This is nuts. Fvck me sideways til Sunday.
I wonder if I'd be better off without her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> I maintain that it is comparing apples to oranges. I thought the thread was the worst thing a spouse can do. Death of a child is outside of this, unless one spouse murders the child.


The original comment about the death of a child was that it was comparable to the pain of an affair, that was what was discounted so it is not outside of the realm of this thread.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Do you think you'd be better off without me after all the progress we've made Calvin?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Very few spouses have survived being murdered.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

murdered?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

old timer said:


> *Gold:* What is your experience when both spouses have cheated?


The female is more willing to forgive and reconcile. The male is more willing to let go and move on.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Do you think you'd be better off without me after all the progress we've made Calvin?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just wonder sometimes.
It really is the worse thing a spouse can do to another. Just hurts.Not easy to live with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> The female is more willing to forgive and reconcile. The male is more willing to let go and move on.


Thanks for the response, Gold


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

bigtone128's thread on Manipulation reminded me that there is another thing that is worse than cheating.

The WS trying to alienate your kids after the cheating/separation is even worse than the cheating, imo. Cheating is between you and your spouse. But when they try to manipulate/damage the kids or use the kids as weapons in the marital dispute - THAT is worse.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I had a pretty messed up childhood, abandonded at birth, we did not have enough food growing up, (seven kids) ass rap#d in Catholic school, beat up in Middle School and High School( 6'2 -165lbs)Fear everydaybut all that was NOTHING compaired to the betrayal of my exwife.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

DavidWYoung said:


> I had a pretty messed up childhood, abandonded at birth, we did not have enough food growing up, (seven kids) ass rap#d in Catholic school, beat up in Middle School and High School( 6'2 -165lbs)Fear everydaybut all that was NOTHING compaired to the betrayal of my exwife.


Yep,its not physical pain,it just seems much,much worse.
I'd rather have both my arms broke so that someone would have to wipe my ass for two months than to ever go through that again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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