# Help Please! Need Logical, Outside Opinion to Make Sure We're Not Crazy



## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

Hello All, 
I posted on this subject before, but I feel maybe I need to add more details to make sure a)I'm not missing anything and b)we're being fair in this situation. It's important that I act as responsibly and fair as possible. But my husband and I have been labeled outcasts by his family and have been branded ingrates, which has been weighing on us emotionally. Please help us by giving us advice! We can really use it!

Background:
Husband's family let my husband and I live in their house so we can save money after we got married a year ago . My sister-in-law, who lives 1.5 hours away, has two little children and has her mom take care of them while her husband and she are at work.

My husband works in the education field, but has been looking for a fulltime permanent position. School ended, so he is not working during the summer, but will resume work in the fall in his temporary job. Based on advice from education professionals, he was told to focus his job search for a fulltime job this summer when jobs open up. Most jobs open up in the summer, not during the year when the school year has already started.

My husband and I agreed that he should focus most of his summer on the job search (there are 60-100 positions that can open up and we want him to focus his time this summer on that). He has basically 2.5 months to try to secure a position. We don't have any children yet. We're waiting until husband finds his permanent position. If he doesn't find one this summer, we will have to wait until next summer. Biological clock is ticking.

During the year, we have been saving money to go to New Zealand. We scrimped and saved so we can afford the 1-week trip this summer. We figured we should go on this trip before we have kids, which we figure may be in the near future. We don't think we will be skydiving or bungee cord jumping once we have children, so we thought this is a trip we should go on soon. This will be our last hurrah, our last big trip before we settle down with a family. 

We put down the first deposit weeks ago before any drama with the in-laws occurred. I asked my husband if he thought he can apply for all of the jobs this summer and still be away for a week. He said yes. We felt confident that one week wouldn't hurt his job search.

Mother-in-law calls my husband asking if he can help her babysit his sister's children. Not just for a day or two days. She wants him to help the entire summer. My husband tells her that he is not going to agree to anything until he talks to me, his wife. Mother-in-law gets upset, says she's not asking for my time, she's asking for his time. Also, my husband tells her he doesn't want to discuss daycare of his sister's children without speaking to his sister first. He is not going to go through his mother on this arrangement. She keeps pushing him for an answer then and there, so my husband says to, "right now, I'm saying no to you. But if my sister wants to talk about this, I'll make arrangements with her." His mother gets upset because now she sees this as my husband saying no to her, and he's dismissing all the years she's helped him with this one answer.

Apparently saying no to his mother is breaking the golden rule in his family. All my husband said is that he will speak to his sister, the mother of the children that he is being asked to help take care of, before he agrees to anything. He tells his mother, unless his sister comes to talk to him, then he's going to assume that she doesn't need his help. An entire summer is a big favor to ask of anyone, and he wasn't going to go through someone who isn't the true primary caregiver of the children. His mother is the grandma, offering help to the parents, not the person who should be calling the shots about daycare of the kids.

I told my husband he can help his sister with the babysitting just as long as he focuses his time on the job search. 

In the meantime, we have a deadline to book the rest of the New Zealand trip. I ask my husband what's going on with the babysitting, and he says nothing is going on. His sister hasn't called or asked him to do anything. It has been about 2 or 3 weeks since his mom called. So we book the trip.

Finally his sister calls. He offers one month during the summer to help his mom help her look after her children. Sister-in-law is furious and says he's being ungrateful to their mother. She says, "That's BS! One month is not a lot of time! You're being unappreciative and ungrateful! I don't want your help!"

Sister-in-law and her husband have been looking for a nanny to permanently help her mother, without any luck so far. She tells my husband, "I expect you to help our mother!" My husband tells her that she's the mother and it's her responsibility to take care of the daycare if her mom needs an extra hand with her children. He feels he is giving her his time, which doesn't seem appreciated. He tells her that not all parents have family members help them for free and she should feel grateful and lucky that he's even offering her the month for free. She goes ballistic with that comment.

My husband feels one month is reasonable - he can focus on his job search on the other weeks he's not looking after her children. His family thinks the job search can be done just an hour a day and he can focus his day (up to 10 hours including commute times) to babysitting. His family seems to think that he has all the time in the world to devote to them. He told his sister she can take the time he's offering or leave it. She chose not to take it. 

If she had said, "Look, I appreciate your time and I know it's a lot to ask, but my husband and I are in a real bind. We need to find someone right away and but it doesn't look feasible that we'll find someone in a month. Is there any way you can put in more time?" 

My husband would probably have considered it to help out. But she didn't even ask for his help with that kind of respect. His sister actually spoke as if she was entitled to all of the time she wanted, end of story.

His entire family -- parents and 4 siblings -- think my husband is being unreasonable and ungrateful. They see this as my husband saying no to his mother and no one says no to their mother. Whatever she asks of you, you do it. My husband always helps his mother (even when it was the most unreasonable), but in this case, he asked to speak to the parents before he agreed to anything, because he felt daycare arrangements are not his mom's -the grandma's- responsibility. When my husband tells his family he needs to focus on the job search this summer, they bring up our New Zealand trip and say, 'Obviously the job search isn't your focus.' Never mind, NZ is one week that we planned before any mention of babysitting occurred, not the entire summer that they are asking for from him. There is no compromise with them. It's all or nothing. Anything we think are valid points to consider from our end is considered "excuses" to them.

When my husband says he needs to put his primary family first -- that is me, his wife -- his family gets upset. They tell him he's changed since he got married and that he's betraying his blood family. His mom actually told him that she doesn't care for me, his wife, and his family doesn't care what I think. 

His family is a very closed group and they do always help each other out. They have helped my husband out financially in the past (helped him pay for a car, and our wedding). But the "gifts," which are given to us without us asking (even at times forced upon us) are given with a price. They use guilt and a strong sense of obligation to make sure that everyone does what they are expected to do. They don't seem to care if this sense of obligation seems to outweigh a person's self-respect and self-value. You just do it. 

I support my husband in whatever he wants to do, but they seem to think I'm controlling him. I'm not. My husband tells me that he's taking his role as a husband seriously, and his family is having a hard time dealing with them not being his primary focus anymore -- especially his mom. She seems to have the entire family sticking up for her. The family is not used to my husband saying no. In the past, before he was married, he told me he always felt like they were bossing him around and he always took it.

Because my husband now won't cave in to their demands, they told us we had to pay market value of the room we live in, as punishment for saying no to their mother, apparently. We said, fine, but we will move out and pay market value elsewhere so we can be free to make our own decisions. We've always tried to show our appreciation to his family for the things they did to help us out financially, and my husband and I always tried to make ourselves available when they needed it. Our decision to move wasn't meant to be disrespectful to the family who had allowed us to live with them. It seems now the roof over our heads has a price -- more than just the market value rent -- that is more than we can afford, such as the feeling we couldn't take control or responsibility of our future.

Now we're being ungrateful for moving out. His mom said, "You don't want to pay market value to your own family, you'd rather pay to a stranger?"

All this emotional blackmail is making us feel like we're being held hostage. Family is a huge deal to me, and I was raised to help out family as best as I could. I told my husband he can help his family however he wants, but don't let his sense of family obligations get in the way of our responsibilities to each other. My family also taught my siblings and I to treat other people as you would want to be treated. Apparently, that doesn't apply to my husband in his family. He is the youngest, so apparently no one has to talk to to him and treat him with respect if they need anything from him. They also don't need to acknowledge his responsibilities to his wife, or that our marriage should be respected at all.

My husband offered the help he thought was reasonable, but they didn't appreciate it. They wanted more.

I feel awful because this has caused a rift in the family. I don't believe my husband was wrong and I feel my in-laws have shown their true colors. I've never felt this trapped before. All this negativity is weighing down on me physically and emotionally.

I want there to be a resolution, especially if my husband and I are to have our own children. But they seem to think we are all wrong in this case. They actually told us to, "look ourselves in the mirror." Funny, we were thinking the same thing about them. 

My husband and I are going crazy over this, because it seems pretty straightforward to us. We firmly believe that we're not doing anything wrong. But his entire family is telling us we're the crazy and illogical ones. They're not willing to compromise. I've never seen them react so hostile and angry before, which leaves me to wonder if there's something so obvious we're not getting, or if there's an underlying issue that's more than this great obligation to my husband's mother that everyone is so upset about.

Everyone else I speak to --family and friends-- assure us that my husband and I were being more than reasonable with his family, and we should do what's best for us. But I'm wondering if an outside, unbiased person would feel the same way?

Tell me honestly, is there something we're missing here? Are we being unreasonable, taking everything into account? How should we proceed with this in the most positive way possible?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If you can't deal with your own kids, then don't have them.

They are HER children...not yours. Any help should be appreciated...not demanded.

Unreal.


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## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

@That_Girl, I know that was the main issue all along with us. And we kept telling them that. But they keep saying, no you're helping out our mother, not your sister! We say, whose children are we talking about? They say, but your mom asked you for help, you do it. :scratchhead:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea. We don't have that rule in this family...unless it's to help MOM...not babysit kids that aren't ours.

I can barely deal with my own kids sometimes, let alone take on other people's children. Ew. No. Your SIL seems very entitled. She had the kids, right? So like every other family...in the summer...sign up for day camp.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I think moving out is good. This is not a family you want to sell your soul to, and this is not going to get any better.

Now -- the New Zealand trip has made this all worse, you realize that, right? As in, well, they can't pay for "x", but they're gadding off to New Zealand! That's just what it is. If they don't get it, they don't get it.

Move away, send lovely Christmas baskets, make your own life. And have a good time in NZ!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My honest opinion? One month is too much, never mind the whole summer!

Your in-laws are weird.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Their making demands, not request. They decided, without you and your husband's input, what the answer should be. Now their playing the guilt card. There was no right answer here, only theirs.
The only right answer is what you feel you can do, not what they say you can do. 
When did SIL's life become your responsibly? Did she ask you if it was OK to have babies? MIL can only decide for her self what to give of her self, not others. 
They have no boundaries, Get out of their house as soon as you can. And be careful or what gifts you take from them, there will always be strings attached.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Yup, time to be grown ups now. If my kids were living under my roof for free....supposedly to save money for their own place or whatever.....and instead saved for a trip that I could never afford; well I'd be pretty pissed. I'd feel used and disrespected.

I'm not saying that the trip is a bad idea. I am saying that you're grown ups now. Time to stop funding your fun by sponging off the parents. Move. Get your own place. Then make your own decisions.

Oh, and asking your husband to set aside an entire summer to be a nanny for free? Ya, that's wrong on so many levels.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

This is a great example of parents who try to do too much for their kids and it backfires by not allowing them to to fully mature. The daughter is off having babies that she's not prepared to care for. The son is living off the parents with his wife. Meanwhile, mom continues to treat them like they're 17 because let's face it, they're still dependents of hers. They need a push to grow up and mom needs a push to let go.


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## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

I get the NZ issue and how it might complicate things. It's not like we don't have any money for the trip or any savings. They think we don't have any money, but we do. We wouldn't have gone if we were going to dip into our savings for our own house or if we didn't have the money to pay for anything else that we needed. We put the NZ savings into another fund and sacrificed other things (like eating out, shopping, etc.), to save for the trip the whole year. 
We pay all of our bills on our own, and pay rent at the price they asked of us before this whole issue went down plus utilities. It wasn't free to live in their house, just not at full market price. I acknowledge that did allow us to save money, and we have made sure that our savings is pretty healthy. 
We have said we wanted to be out on our own many times before, but they insisted that we stay at the house. We felt we were ready to move out long ago, but his family kept pulling the guilt card that we stay.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

They insisted because they want to maintain power and control. They can't let go. They're holding you back. Can't you see that? You have to be strong to break through that egg shell.

It's weird, I don't know what is up with people today. When I was 17 I joined the service and moved 3000 miles away from home. I've never accepted help. It was extremely important to me that I stand on my own two feet, even if that meant that I didn't get to do things like fly to NZ.

Because of that my parents RESPECT me. And so do my wife's parents.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

They sound like control freaks.
Maybe MOVING to, not just visiting to New Zealand would be a great idea, or any other country for that matter.
Can your husband expand his job search?
Why not live it up year round before you have children?
You can just explain to the relatives that it's the only job your H could find, and of course he had to take it rather than stay unemployed, because you don't want to continue being a burden. ;-)
Honestly, sometimes escape is a legit tactic when you are outnumbered and the deck is stacked against you. Living abroad might bring you the peace of mind you need at this time.
Give em the slip is what I say.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I think his family is being crazy but the New Zealand trip was a mistake. One last hurrah before kids but he doesn't even have a full time job yet to me would rub people the wrong way. They were helping you out by giving you a room for cheaper than you would find anywhere else. Now they feel a bit betrayed. They dont have a right to feel that way, but the trip thing....not really on board with that. You weren't renting the room to save for the trip so I see how they can use that as an argument.

Family is crazy though.


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## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

@WorkingOnMe I agree. And we are planning to do that, with of course much resistance from his family. We both see that staying under their roof and taking their help will only complicate things. 
I work fulltime and have always funded my own endeavors/needs. I suppose I saw this trip as something we're paying together, mostly with my own hard-earned money and I worked very hard for it. I was willing to pay for this trip for the both of us. I'm willing to address this issue with his family, because it was not my intention to make them feel as if we were taking advantage of them. 
I see that until my husband can find a permanent job (he is employed during the school year, but it isn't permanent), I don't think he will be fully respected by his family. Until we move on our own, we won't be fully able to make our own decisions without being judged.
But when you go out on your own, and go against the family, you are breaking family ties. Family bonds are important to us, that's why we wanted to see if there was any way we can heal this rift without compromising what is right.
You are right, my husband and I have to go our own way and stop taking the help. We need to stand on our own, and honestly say whatever we do, we're responsible for. We've always wanted to do this. This, we can't compromise on.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Here's what I see. You are defending yourself to a bunch of strangers here. Why? Because you are letting this dysfunctional bunch get under your skin. They have a family dynamic in place this is NOT going to change. Mom gets her way. She rules. Your opinion means zilch.

Your husband had the guts to set boundaries and behave in a healthy manner. That isn't tolerated in a family rife with dysfunction 

This is where you have to cut your losses. These people are the type who help you out, then make you pay with a pound of flesh ... for the rest of your life.

I wouldn't feel guilty about going to NZ. I wouldn't feel guilty about not taking care of sis-in-law's kids. CUT YOUR LOSSES.

You do not need to defend yourself. You and hubs need to cut the cord. Move on.

Send them a fruitcake for Christmas.


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## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

So what do you think about the argument they have about my MIL asking my husband for help with babysitting his sister's children? Is he really saying no to his mother when he says he won't speak to her regarding possibly helping, only his sister? Or is this his sister's responsibility she needs to take care of? The entire family is hung up on this "saying no to mom" issue. But they don't see why we're hung up on his sister and her husband, and why we believe this is their issue.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Of course I believe it's irrelevant but I can see their point about it being the moms issue. I don't think you mentioned it in this post but in your old post didn't you say mil is the daily caregiver? She's basically the nanny and needs a replacement for a while because of some personal issue. If your mil was doing this for a 3rd party and asked for your help during her absence it would clearly be a favor to her. But since you mil's "employer" is his sister it feels different.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

It doesn't really matter about the childcare argument. Your H offered a fair and generous idea...they turned it down. F*ck them then. Period. Let it go. If this blows the family apart, then so be it, because it's all too petty. Think how lovely and peaceful your Thanksgivings will be without them over for dinner.


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## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

@Workingonme
OK, so by your argument, even though you say sister should take responsibility for her own children, my husband is still responsible to help his mother because she asked him to fill in for her while she is doing her daughter a favor?
When husband asks to discuss this with his sister, hasn't actually said no to the whole arrangement mind you at this point, he is still being ungrateful?
Let's say for example my mother is helping my sister by doing her chores at her apartment everyday as a favor to her. Let's say my mom can't do it anymore. She asks me to help. She tells me if I don't help her, my sister will have to clean her own apartment. 
Let's say I tell her that my sister's apartment is not my responsibility and my sister can come talk to me if she needs the help with her apartment.
Let's say sister calls and I say I can come every other weekend to help her with her apartment. Then sister says, "You're being ungrateful! Mom told you to help me out and you're being unappreciative! You're helping mom out with this, not me!"
If it was another employer paying my mother, then it would be my mom's job and her responsibility. Something that she was being paid to do and I would try to help her as much as I can. I can see that as being her deal I would try to help her out with.
But cleaning my sister's apartment is not my mom's responsibility if she's not getting paid for it. If she can't do the favor for my sister or anyone else for that matter, then it's up to the person who she's doing the favor for to take care of it. 
But even if it was an unpaid favor to a third party, and not my sister, and I offered the help I was willing to give within my own means, that third party and my mom should learn to accept or deny the help, or accept no for an answer if I said no. 
As someone said earlier, you shouldn't demand any help from anyone.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I didn't say he's responsible to help at all. And I definitely don't think that is the case. But if the question is who is the one who has responsibility to 'ask' for help I can see how it could be the mother. Sounds like he feels he can say no to sis but not to mom do he'd like the request to come from sis. But the request has rightfully come from mom. So sack up and tell mom no.


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## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

@Workingonme

ultimately the request was to find childcare for sister's children. Was it not? That was the reason why husband asked the request to come from the sister, because grandma's responsibility is not to find childcare for her grandchildren. Yes she was the daily nanny as a favor to her daughter. Now she can't do it anymore. That's something she needs to take up with her daughter. MIL decides that her son would be a good person to take her place. Shouldn't she make the suggestion to her daughter? And shouldn't her daughter look into it for her mother instead of having her mom worry about it? Wouldn't it be true even if say it wasn't a family member, but a third party they were interested in having to replace MIL?

As I said before, if this was MIL's paid job, something she was depending on for her livelihood, then it is her responsibility and something my husband can say yes or no to his mom about.

But it's not. The question was whether who my husband is actually saying no to. In the end, he felt this was not something he could say yes or no to his mother about. He felt, since his sister is the mother of the children in question and has the final say, he will make decisions with her. 

He felt whether it was his mother who asked him, or the neighbor who asked for his sister, he was making the decision whether or not to help his sister, not his mother.


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## Mrs.K (Apr 12, 2012)

To me the child care situation would depend on how often your mil needed help watching the kids. In your first post I got the vibe that she needed just a little bit of help here and there and that I wouldn't see as an issue and I would have simply told her that I could help sometimes but if she were wanting me to take over completely I would want to talk to my sister. 

Is she wanting him to become the sole caretaker of the kids during the day?

We have had similar situations come up in my family. My mom was watching my niece but she had a doctors appointment so my mom called me and asked if I could watch her for the day instead. From there I called my sister to let her know I would be there that day.

Of course my mother only watches my niece one day a week and obviously I wouldn't be ok with just taking over for her permanently but a favor here or there I wouldn't mind.


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## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

Mrs. K - she wanted him to be the sole provider the whole summer. Not just here and there. Five days a week for the whole summer.


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## Mrs.K (Apr 12, 2012)

Yeah that is really messed up! She is just looking for a summer vacation huh?? 

I would be pissed at my mom if she was watching my kids and tried to pawn the job off on someone else without talking to me first but on the other hand your sil should be lining up her own child care if she knows her mom can't do it anymore.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Maybe mom should tell her daughter to not pop out kids she can't care for.


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

This sound like an ExTreMLy controlling bunch! Move out! My inlaws charged hubby rent before we were married and dictated his career choices. It was an awful situation. He then moved out by me (we were long distance) and stayed with my parents while I finished school. My parents were glad to house him because he worked hard, helped out in the kitchen, and made me happy. (granted, my parents have their own control issues, but we still have a decent family dynamic)

Also, do your best to move at least 3 hrs away. I had a roommate with severe family over-attachment issues. They are guilt-trip experts that drag her into family drama and childcare. Meanwhile, her marriage is unstable. It only works bc her husband is away working for weeks at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is a great example of parents who try to do too much for their kids and it backfires by not allowing them to to fully mature. The daughter is off having babies that she's not prepared to care for. The son is living off the parents with his wife. Meanwhile, mom continues to treat them like they're 17 because let's face it, they're still dependents of hers. They need a push to grow up and mom needs a push to let go.


Sorry, but this was my thought exactly. You've gotta start acting like an adult to be treated like one.

What would be ideal, IMO, is if his mom stood up and kicked all of her children in the butt and just said "no more". 

She is supposed to be done with her obligation, she did her time.

Best thing you can do is get out, scrape your pennies together to pay your rent like almost every other newly married couple does, and keep his family at arms length so you don't have to be in these predicaments anymore.

If my grown children planned a lavish trip with the money they saved instead of using it to move out of my house, I would absolutely flip out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feeling Hostage (Jun 25, 2012)

@kag123 We have been trying to move out for a long time. We have the money to move out any time, even with the money we spent on the trip, but they keep telling us we shouldn't move and we're ungrateful if we do. It caused huge drama each time we said we planned to move out.

We have saved quite a bit to to not live paycheck to paycheck. But this is the last straw for us, and we plan to move out very soon.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

YOU ARE ADULTS! Screw the drama. LET THEM BE DRAMATIC and move out.

You are adults. You don't even need to look at them. This is just their way of controlling you.


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