# Asking for help



## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

I found this forum a few days ago and have made a few posts here. I saw how things went with MrHB50 and am hopeful that I can learn and grow from my own mistakes. I am not interested in being bashed or having my character assassinated. I am doing enough of that on my own and getting it from every angle. I need help and support, so I am turning to you all to ask for help.

Ok, so here is my story:

My wife and I have been married for 14 years. We have three children in the house, two are ours and the oldest one is mine from before we got together.

My history is that I was sexually abused by a teacher when I was a teenager. This has obviously dramatically changed my life – not for the better. My wife knew about this history before we got together. The complications from that are absolutely astounding. This relates, but it is not the center of this discussion. I am actively pursuing help regarding my abuse and have been dealing with its destructive results for years now.

When we got married she was 18 and I was 33. There is a long backstory there, but nothing illegal or underage happened. Less than 3 days after we got married I had to move overseas. Almost 9 months later she moved to be with me. Almost immediately she wanted to move back home to be with her mother. I realize this is a product of her age and having never been away from home. We had a rough go of it while we lived there. Through a lot of it she wasn’t interested in sex at all. She actually didn’t want to have sex on our wedding night. Because of this, and my history, I turned to porn. When she found that, even when we tried to share it, she threatened to leave me again and wanted a divorce. We worked through that. 

Things got better for a while, but still little interest in sex from her over the years. Sometimes it would be up to six months or more between times for us. This was driving me crazy. In the meantime we did have two children together. Often it felt like she wanted the baby and I was the necessary route to get there. 

Well, about a year or year and a half ago I was in counseling regarding my history of sexual abuse. It stirred up a lot of memories and feelings that I had never dealt with. About this same time I had a “suggested friend” on Facebook who was a girl I had dated back during the time I started to realize the effects of the sexual abuse on my life some 20+ years ago. She and I had been together for about 7 years and had intended to get married once she graduated college. She graduated and instead loaded up and moved to the far side of the country leaving me wondering what the hell just happened to my life. I made the decision to contact her to talk about what happened and try to close that chapter and maybe get some insights into myself and how I was 20 years ago. Well, I became emotional and said some things and had some conversations I should not have. We communicated for a few weeks and the contact ended. The conversation was very insightful to where I was and what happened. I finally felt I could resolve that issue. I did not tell my wife about this contact as I didn’t feel that it would go over well, but I felt I had to get some resolution in order to move ahead in my own life.

Earlier this year I ended up being called for a work related incident. I met with someone one time related to the incident and she was having a rough day and spoke with me about issues with her boyfriend. I sympathized with her and listened and we remained in contact after that meeting. The conversation ended up becoming sexual in nature. This was something I felt was missing in my life and I didn’t stop it. Admittedly, I enjoyed the conversation. I should have stopped it, but I didn’t. No physical contact ever took place and the one meeting was relatively formal in nature.
My wife found the conversations on my phone – both the texts and the conversation from a year ago. I know I hurt her very badly and this is something that I never intended. I know it was just a fantasy world that I had created and lived in for a short time. I guess it was a means of escape for the time of the conversation.

We are in counseling now, but she has decreed that she will not go back to couples counseling. She is going to solo counseling and so am I. 

If you read all of that congratulations. Now for my questions:

1.	What can I do to help support her best?
2.	What are my next steps?
3.	What can I do to earn her trust again?
4.	How can I communicate that its HER I want to be with?

I know I am an idiot for what I did. It has cost me my best friend and my closest ally who is the mother of my children and the person I trust most in the world. She is entirely too important to me to lose. I love her and care about her.

At this point I am being completely transparent with everything I am doing. I have obviously cut off contact with anyone outside of work. I am in counseling and will head to change my phone number and phone probably later today if I get away from work in time. We are attending church regularly now and I am trying to make MAJOR changes in my life for not only myself, but more importantly for her and my kids. This is NOT the example I want to set as a husband and father. I am accepting responsibility for my actions and trying to get to the root cause in order to fix/repair what I can and save my marriage. I am continually beating myself up over this and already have low-enough self-esteem for probably everyone here. I am a fractured person and that has spilled over and torn my wife away from me.

I am sure that there is more I could put out there and there is information I have left out, but this is a quick overview that got very long.

Thank you for your time and answers.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

First, you chose the wrong path to deal with sexlessness.

Second, it doesn't sound like she is interested is solving the sexlessness.

Even if you reconcile, how does this get better long term?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Cheating was not her fault, but she contributed to a bad marriage. You should have left her. Ok now that's out of the way. Is she ready to give you the love and affection that is due you in marriage? If she is going to go about her way doing the same old thing, I'm pretty sure you will be tempted to find validation from someone else again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

And for the record I'm against divorce, but I'm starting to change my mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Your affair was your choice so own it completely. The bad marriage was both your faults. 

If she is not willing to go to joint counseling with you all you can do is work towards dealing with your past sexual issues and hang-ups. Work on becoming a better you and maybe she might notice and be willing to work with you.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

1. What can I do to help support her best?

I would say be honest just like I see in your post. That is good, and the best you can do. You cannot control her so you have to wait how she deals with the situation. If you do the right things, you can be satisfied with that, whatever the outcome. There are here a lot of people that can help you further on the road, so relax as far as possible and take it one day at a time. I think that attitude from your side is also helping her the best.

2. What are my next steps?

I think actively acting is not in your interest, let her take the initiative, but I am not sure about this.


3. What can I do to earn her trust again?

Be honest. Not succumbing to what you think are her interests, but find a way to give and take, what she wants and what you want must be reasonably balanced. 

4. How can I communicate that its HER I want to be with?

Just say it, and show it in your actions. Ask her how she feels about this.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'd say that your decision to marry an 18 year old barely out of high school girl as a 33 year old man suggests you have immaturity issues, which impacts how you handle things 

That is what I'd be exploring and working on. 

As for her trusting you, you can only continue to behave in a trustworthy manner.

Was she ever into you? How long did you date before marriage? She either had to be underage or you didn't date long. 

What made you think an 18 year old girl would be a good partner for a 33 year old man?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

One suggestion I have, is that no matter what you think were contributors to your EA; lack of sex, past sexual abuse, etc.; that you not mention them to your wife - unless she asks. She will likely see this as you trying to make excuses. They are not. Own what you did.

Demonstrate consistent remorse, transparency, and patience. Understand that she has given you the gift of R. Don't take that for granted. She could still change her mind.

Keep going to IC. Keep encouraging her to go to MC, but don't pressure her.

And most important; don't put yourself in a position where you'll be tempted to cheat.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Thank you for sharing your experience. I know that can't have been easy. 14 years is a lot to throw away. You seem to have accepted blame for making 2 horrible, trust-destroying choices. I did notice something though - you prefaced your account of your cheating with talk of your lack of sex from your wife and your sexual abuse. While I'm sure both of those things play a part in the adult you are, and I applaud you for addressing them as contributing factors to your unhappiness as an adult, the cheating is really a separate issue. Those items really belong in a separate box to be dealt with by a counselor, separate and apart from your cheating. A lot of people are in unhappy marriages. But not everybody cheats. Do you see the disconnect here that you seem to have here between what you seem to posit as causes (no sex, past abuse) and the end result (cheating)? This wasn't cause and effect. 

I know you feel strongly that you benefitted from contacting your old girlfriend. But if the shoe was on the other foot, and your wife had to contact an old boyfriend and chat with them about the good old times (or problems or whatever) and to bury the hatchet, then surely you would want her to be upfront about it and tell you the truth. See the problem here? It's not innocent and ok to contact an old girlfriend. Not really. And it's REALLY not innocent and OK to lie to your wife about it. That broke her trust in you, along with your inappropriate conversations with that colleague/co-worker. 

It always saddens me to read about unfaithful spouses who only care about losing their spouse and children AFTER they make terrible choices. 

1.	What can I do to help support her best?

Go to counseling. Do the hard work. Work on being healthy for your kids and yourself. You obviously haven't fully come to terms with the awful things that happened to you as a child. They of course will have an effect on you as an adult. But you should have made sure you had done the soul-searching, ex-girlfriend-calling portion of your healing before you tied yourself to another human being and made children dependent on you for their well-being and upkeep. Now that's done, and you can't undo it. What you CAN do is listen. And give her space. She might have uncomfortable questions that make you feel defensive. Answer them honestly and without trying to defend yourself or make excuses. DO NOT lie or minimize like you did about your calls to your ex. All that will do is erode any trust she regains in you. It will take a LONG time for her to even contemplate trusting you again. You will have to be patient and AVOID the "why-isn't-she-over-it-already" attitude that a lot of WS seem to have. Any consequences are just that - consequences. They aren't punishment. They are the result of your own behavior and entirely a result of what you did. So if you get frustrated about your circumstances/any negative results like sleeping on the couch etc. don't direct that hostility at her. 

2.	What are my next steps?

Wait. Be open and offer her COMPLETE access to your phone, internet and any other technology or communications you have. Again, this is not her nagging you. This is your attempt to show you are ready to be above reproach and that you accept the consequences of your actions.

3.	What can I do to earn her trust again?

Well...you might not. All you can do is wait, be open, be patient and give her WHATEVER she needs to heal. Have you written a no-contact letter to the co-worker and ex girlfriend? Do that, if you haven't yet. Then stick to it. Show you can be the person you obviously want to be. For your kids if for nobody else. Ask her what you can do to support her in her healing.

4.	How can I communicate that its HER I want to be with?

Is it, though? I'm not trying to have a go at you. I'm honestly asking. Is it HER you are wanting? Or is it the life you have with her as a "normal" family unit, for the kids' sake? 

I ask, because if this is really the case, when you eventually have this conversation with her (don't push for it, but explain that when she's ready to discuss it, you are here for her), you had better have some good reasons WHY you want to be with her. Not why you want to remain married, but why you want HER, specifically. And what you need to change about yourself and your marriage in order for her to be consider staying with you. And perhaps equally importantly, what needs to change for you. I suspect as a result of your cheating, she won't even want to consider having sex with you until you repair the trust. That is going to take time. Was it just lack of sex? Or other things you were missing from the marriage?

How can you improve your boundaries? You have poor boundaries, so if you are wanting to be with her, you're going to have to do the hard work on that in counseling, or the next time trauma from your past comes up, or you have a sex drought with your wife, you'll be back in the same boat. Rug sweeping helps nobody.

I genuinely wish you the best of luck. Not all cheaters seek to make the transition easy for their spouse. Most just look to how they can make their current circumstances cushier.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Good on you for being honest. It's not easy to share and own your mistakes. 

I agree with others... What is it you're hoping to salvage? Imo a marriage is a partnership including frequent sex, lots of sex, with a person you love and adore. Otherwise, there is no glue holding you together emotionally. Maybe other things like status and power, or children hold some couples together, but those things are not in the same league to me. Children often challenge the bonds of a marriage, so if it's not already strong, it'll often break. 

Without the benefit of your wife's side of the story, we only have your own. It sounds like you married a woman that wanted a sperm donor, with all due respect. You call her a friend, etc, but a roommate can be your friend. You don't speak of her with passion, with yearning, or that she lights your fire... That's because there barely is any passion and the fire's been out for a while. THOSE are the kinds of words you read here from a man that has a strong emotional bond with his wife.

While reaching out for emotional intimacy with another woman was wrong, it was more wrong that you did not remove yourself from a loveless relationship sooner so that you could find what you needed without anything weighing on your conscience. 

Again, it'd be good to have your wife's side. Would she come here?

Maybe there's something about her past you don't know. Maybe the age disparity was too great. The human brain doesn't fully mature until late 20s. I'm not being funny. Very rarely do people under 30 really know what they want, they just do what they think they're supposed to do.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> First, you chose the wrong path to deal with sexlessness.
> 
> Second, it doesn't sound like she is interested is solving the sexlessness.
> 
> Even if you reconcile, how does this get better long term?



Agreed, I chose the wrong path. It kind of fell to me and I followed it. 

Right now you are also correct. I don't think she is interested in solving that issue, but I hold out hope based on what she has told me. I think we were caught in a loop of things she did to push me away and things I did to compensate that sent us back and forth down that pathway.

Over the long term I don't know yet. That pathway has yet to be determined, but I want to repair what I can to the best of my ability.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

Thound said:


> Cheating was not her fault, but she contributed to a bad marriage. You should have left her. Ok now that's out of the way. Is she ready to give you the love and affection that is due you in marriage? If she is going to go about her way doing the same old thing, I'm pretty sure you will be tempted to find validation from someone else again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Thound said:


> And for the record I'm against divorce, but I'm starting to change my mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Likewise, I am against divorce. I recognize my own shortcomings and will work to remove myself from any sort of temptations. I cannot speak for what she will or won't do at this point. I can only control my own actions.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Your affair was your choice so own it completely. The bad marriage was both your faults.
> 
> If she is not willing to go to joint counseling with you all you can do is work towards dealing with your past sexual issues and hang-ups. Work on becoming a better you and maybe she might notice and be willing to work with you.



I am certainly trying my best to own up to my mistakes. There have been a lot of great things we have done together, so I don't know if its necessarily a bad marriage. The real issues that I have would be the lack of sex. 

I am definitely working to be the best "me" I can be.

Thank you for your reply.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

See_Listen_Love said:


> 1. What can I do to help support her best?
> 
> I would say be honest just like I see in your post. That is good, and the best you can do. You cannot control her so you have to wait how she deals with the situation. If you do the right things, you can be satisfied with that, whatever the outcome. There are here a lot of people that can help you further on the road, so relax as far as possible and take it one day at a time. I think that attitude from your side is also helping her the best.
> 
> ...



Thank you for this reply. Very good answers and I appreciate that.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd say that your decision to marry an 18 year old barely out of high school girl as a 33 year old man suggests you have immaturity issues, which impacts how you handle things
> 
> That is what I'd be exploring and working on.
> 
> ...



This is a whole other story. 

I don't doubt that I have maturity issues. Largely those tie back the abuse and how it affected me. 

I will continue behaving in a trustworthy way to be sure. Yes, she was into me and we didn't date long before we got married. 

As far as what made us think it would work with our age difference, we just felt right together and things moved quickly. Yes, there were a lot of growing pains, but we have generally done well. She is a great mother to our kids.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Shades of Gray said:


> I found this forum a few days ago and have made a few posts here. I saw how things went with MrHB50 and am hopeful that I can learn and grow from my own mistakes. *I am not interested in being bashed or having my character assassinated.* I am doing enough of that on my own and getting it from every angle. I need help and support, so I am turning to you all to ask for help.



It's always amusing to see waywards say this, and even more so when it's less than a full paragraph into the initial post in his/her thread.

Is "being bashed" by a relative handful of anonymous netizens really such a huge concern for you?

All aboard! Next stop: my childhood sexual abuse!

False bravado and excuses -- what a way to open a thread.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

badmemory said:


> One suggestion I have, is that no matter what you think were contributors to your EA; lack of sex, past sexual abuse, etc.; that you not mention them to your wife - unless she asks. She will likely see this as you trying to make excuses. They are not. Own what you did.
> 
> Demonstrate consistent remorse, transparency, and patience. Understand that she has given you the gift of R. Don't take that for granted. She could still change her mind.
> 
> ...



Agreed and I don't try to make them excuses - I did initially, but am coming to own them as we progress through things.

I do intend to continue my IC. I plan to try to keep her going to MC.

Thank you for your reply.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

badmemory said:


> One suggestion I have, is that no matter what you think were contributors to your EA; lack of sex, past sexual abuse, etc.; that you not mention them to your wife - unless she asks. She will likely see this as you trying to make excuses. They are not. Own what you did.
> 
> Demonstrate consistent remorse, transparency, and patience. Understand that she has given you the gift of R. Don't take that for granted. She could still change her mind.
> 
> ...


Hi there @Shades of Gray,

I'm MrHB50's wife... you mentioned reading his thread here so thought I would chime in on one of your questions, specifically how to earn back trust. 

When I first discovered what MrHB50 had been up to I was devastated. I felt my world had been turned upside down. While we have faced many challenges together in 25 years together and 20 years of marriage, I never saw it coming. I thought he and I were solid ... we had a great sex life... 3 kids. Within a little over a week, I was willing to work with him to rebuild our marriage. We were in counseling together, we read books together suggested by the kind people here at TAM. I thought we were on the way back, even if the road might be a little long.

The problem is that once I agreed to work on things with him, he stopped trying to actually do the work. He became angry at me and lashes out at me daily for not just letting it go. He started minimizing what he did to himself, to me, to TAM when he came here for advice, and most recently to our kids. He made excuses...and a lot of them. Instead of owning what he did and acknowledging the pain he caused me, he blames me for over-reacting. So we are at an impasse. We are together, but in separate bedrooms. We co-parent, we are still in MC, but we make no progress.

What do I wish my husband would do? (and yes, I have told all of this to him directly)

1. Honor my pain. I want him to show true remorse for what he did by admitting to how bad it really was.

2. Own it. I want him to call it what it is. He still can't call it cheating... he even struggles to call it sexting. Now its inappropriate texting.

3. No More Excuses. There are NO valid excuses for cheating of any kind in a marriage. Excuses feed mistrust. If he can excuse what he already did what's to stop him from doing so again?

4. No More Minimizing. Again, making it seem not so bad might make him feel better and less guilty, but it makes me feel worse and that I cannot trust him to not do it again.

I am still relatively new here myself and others will give you better advice, but since you're familiar with MrHB50's thread, I thought I'd let you know what I wish he had tried instead.

BTW, I am also a sex abuse survivor, so just wanted to say I do get how many issues that can cause for you. Many of my own issues that I thought were previously dealt with have risen to the surface as a result of our recent marital troubles. So I truly sympathize. But, it's not an excuse.

When you hit 30 posts, my thread is in the Private Section.

Good luck to you!


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

joannacroc said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience. I know that can't have been easy. 14 years is a lot to throw away. You seem to have accepted blame for making 2 horrible, trust-destroying choices. I did notice something though - you prefaced your account of your cheating with talk of your lack of sex from your wife and your sexual abuse. While I'm sure both of those things play a part in the adult you are, and I applaud you for addressing them as contributing factors to your unhappiness as an adult, the cheating is really a separate issue. Those items really belong in a separate box to be dealt with by a counselor, separate and apart from your cheating. A lot of people are in unhappy marriages. But not everybody cheats. Do you see the disconnect here that you seem to have here between what you seem to posit as causes (no sex, past abuse) and the end result (cheating)? This wasn't cause and effect.
> 
> I know you feel strongly that you benefitted from contacting your old girlfriend. But if the shoe was on the other foot, and your wife had to contact an old boyfriend and chat with them about the good old times (or problems or whatever) and to bury the hatchet, then surely you would want her to be upfront about it and tell you the truth. See the problem here? It's not innocent and ok to contact an old girlfriend. Not really. And it's REALLY not innocent and OK to lie to your wife about it. That broke her trust in you, along with your inappropriate conversations with that colleague/co-worker.
> 
> ...



Thank you for taking the time to write this. I am following ad doing most of what you wrote here and you raise some extremely valid points. I appreciate that very much. 

The boundaries you mention are very true. I recognize that and through my IC am learning a lot. 

You are right as well about not having dealt with a lot of what had happened to me as a child. More and more of that surfaces every day of my life - sometimes in small ways, sometimes in huge ways like this. It will never leave me and is always haunting my life. I honestly was at a point where I thought I was at peace with it before she and I got together. Obviously that's not proven to be the case.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

Satya said:


> Good on you for being honest. It's not easy to share and own your mistakes.
> 
> I agree with others... What is it you're hoping to salvage? Imo a marriage is a partnership including frequent sex, lots of sex, with a person you love and adore. Otherwise, there is no glue holding you together emotionally. Maybe other things like status and power, or children hold some couples together, but those things are not in the same league to me. Children often challenge the bonds of a marriage, so if it's not already strong, it'll often break.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I agree that the sex should be an emotional bond and that has largely been missing. I do know that she had some issues that I haven't raised here from her own past. I am sure that contributed in some part to where we are now, but I need to figure out my best way forward to save things. 

I don't think she would come here and post at all. It would not be like her at all.

I also understand about the brain and its maturity. I also have no doubt that this factored in somewhere.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Shades of Gray said:


> It kind of fell to me and I followed it.
> 
> I think we were caught in a loop of things she did to push me away


Again, I would urge you to save these "excuses" for your therapist to hear. They may matter for the long term health of the marriage, but right now, they serve no purpose toward repairing the damage to her caused by your infidelity.

First things first.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> It's always amusing to see waywards say this, and even more so when it's less than a full paragraph into the initial post in his/her thread.
> 
> Is "being bashed" by a relative handful of anonymous netizens really such a huge concern for you?
> 
> ...



I came here to ask for help, not to be bashed. I am already doing that enough myself and hearing it from everyone around me. The abuse portion is something that factors into all of this.

Not making bravado or excuses.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

heartbroken50 said:


> Hi there @Shades of Gray,
> 
> I'm MrHB50's wife... you mentioned reading his thread here so thought I would chime in on one of your questions, specifically how to earn back trust.
> 
> ...



First, let me say how sorry I am that your situation has happened and THANK YOU for your reply. Your husbands thread is the one that made me decide to register and post. I have learned a LOT from his mistakes.

Right now I am brokenhearted as I realize the damage I have done. I can't imagine being on the other end at this point. 

To your points:

1. I have tried to do exactly that. Each passing day I am more remorseful and apologize to her daily for what I did to hurt her.

2. I also struggle with calling it that at this point. I am working on this though. I know this minimizes it, but I am just not there yet.

3. I am trying not to make excuses any longer. I did initially and that only aggravated the injury. 

4. I do try not to minimize it, although I know that I have on several occasions. I am guilty of this, but will try to do better with it.


I have, to date, worked my hardest to try to rectify things. I have made some big changes in my life and will continue to do so. I will not give up as long as there is reason to fight and I have tried to make those efforts visible to her although many of them have to be internal changes.

Thank you and good luck to both you and MrHB.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Shades of Gray said:


> I came here to ask for help, not to be bashed. I am already doing that enough myself and hearing it from everyone around me. The abuse portion is something that factors into all of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Not making bravado or excuses.



How to Not Model Remorse After Having Committed Adultery

by "Shades of Gray"

Paragraph 1: 

Mention disdain for "being bashed".

Paragraph 2: 

Bring up CSA, thereby avoiding, deflecting, minimizing, and/or mitigating blame for my poor choices.

You get that this doesn't exactly frame you as being _genuinely_ remorseful, right?

When these are the _very first_ (and second) things that you mention...?

To be clear, I'm not bashing you. (Hell, you haven't _seen_ bashing yet.) What I AM doing is trying to get you to see this -- if you come across as unremorseful (or, rather, not _genuinely_ remorseful) to us, how do you think you're coming across to your wife?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

badmemory said:


> Again, I would urge you to save these "excuses" for your therapist to hear. They may matter for the long term health of the marriage, but right now, they serve no purpose toward repairing the damage to her caused by your infidelity.
> 
> First things first.



I agree and that wasn't intended to be the purpose of this thread. You are correct.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

SOG,

Most of the WS's that come here are going to take some 2x4's. That's just the nature of the Board. You have to be somewhat thick skinned.

It's natural for a WS to want to believe that things caused them to be susceptible to an A; and that may be the case. But if you agree that there are no acceptable excuses for cheating, as I and most here do - they are not only irrelevant, but self defeating. This is a coping with infidelity forum; not an IC forum. We want to advise you on the best way to save your marriage.

Once you have the mind set of owning *100%* of the A, you are in a better place to help your spouse heal; of demonstrating true remorse.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> How to Not Model Remorse After Having Committed Adultery
> 
> by "Shades of Gray"
> 
> ...



Ok, I can see how that might come across. I understand what you are saying. I apologize if that came across as insincere or unremorseful. That was certainly not my intent.

Maybe it got lost in translation though. I came here asking for help and for the most part that's what I have gotten - genuinely well thought out replies. I have to admit to being a bit scared about making my initial post as I saw how things went with MrHB. But I thought maybe the benefits I could learn from the membership here could help my situation and help me make sense of it in a meaningful way.

She is my best friend and I hurt her and never meant to do that. I do love her.

Thank you for your reply.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

badmemory said:


> SOG,
> 
> Most of the WS's that come here are going to take some 2x4's. That's just the nature of the Board. You have to be somewhat thick skinned.
> 
> ...



I understand - thank you for your reply. 

My intent is to help her to heal to be sure and I need to get to the point where I can best do that.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I have a question for you. If she fails to work on her own end, and this could take years if ever to get over and you may still end up in an unfulfilling relationship, would stay for guilt or move on. The average time is about 2 to 5 years for cheating. Also, she has to acknowledge her own actions towards you as well. Her neglect of you also played a role in your own mental and emotional state. Sure, the healthy choice was to leave, but she owns fault in that as well. Just Your affair has hurt her emotionally and her neglect of you has done the same prior.

My advice is to help her with facts and apologize and be a friend, but acknowledge the fact that even if you work on your past issues, if she continues to neglect you should she choose to reconcile, it will be detrimental to yourself at the same time.

I am of the different mindset on this site and see others affect another mental health. What if I told you that a spouse beats their partner regularly and told their partner how worthless they are, the partner committed suicide and people told you in no way the abuse had nothing to do with the outcome, it was a separate thing and the abused partner chose suicide when they could have easily left. WE make better choices the more mentally healthy we are and another person can alter how we behave even if we are adults.

Hopefully, you do not stay just for guilt. I know you care about her, but you need to care about yourself as well. She may still leave you so work on gaining the knowledge to recognize how unhealthy some of your behavior is. Work on getting stronger so if you know that you cannot be happy with her, that you can detach and leave before you regress. Her neglect compounded to your previous issues.

Again, you are free to follow anyone's advice, but my goal is not for you to make-up with your wife but for you to live a healthy, fulfilling life with or without her. That means, you will need a partner that is also healthy. Your life is your own to live.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

QUOTE=Thound;16576122]Cheating was not her fault, but she contributed to a bad marriage. You should have left her. Ok now that's out of the way. Is she ready to give you the love and affection that is due you in marriage? If she is going to go about her way doing the same old thing, I'm pretty sure you will be tempted to find validation from someone else again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

OK. I agree with this 100%.

Problem? When a women is in a sexless relationship.....and she cheats........a different horn is tooted.

This is not the tone and gist of most of the advice given to a WW.

Average cheater WH gets the hand-slap...cheater WW gets the two-by-four.

Men are more forgiving to their gender? Much harder on a WW?

Just saying.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> It's always amusing to see waywards say this, and even more so when it's less than a full paragraph into the initial post in his/her thread.
> 
> Is "being bashed" by a relative handful of anonymous netizens really such a huge concern for you?
> 
> ...




Not really. He just read Mr HB's thread, remember? What was that about? 100 2x4's. Unlike Mr, He said he got the message. No need to repeat. He asked for specific help.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

So, in summary, 47 year old guy, sexless marriage, mid life crisis, coworker. Escape. 

Sounds familiar. 

OP, i have been there done that. Done worse. 

You don't want to fix the marriage. You really want out but don't have the strength or courage to leave. You are worried about sunk cost. 14 years. It does not get better when it is 24 years.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I have a question for you. If she fails to work on her own end, and this could take years if ever to get over and you may still end up in an unfulfilling relationship, would stay for guilt or move on. The average time is about 2 to 5 years for cheating. Also, she has to acknowledge her own actions towards you as well. Her neglect of you also played a role in your own mental and emotional state. Sure, the healthy choice was to leave, but she owns fault in that as well. Just Your affair has hurt her emotionally and her neglect of you has done the same prior.
> 
> My advice is to help her with facts and apologize and be a friend, but acknowledge the fact that even if you work on your past issues, if she continues to neglect you should she choose to reconcile, it will be detrimental to yourself at the same time.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your post. This makes sense to me and is part of the bigger picture. 

I fully realize that I have a LOT of issues that still linger in my life from the abuse. I don't want to or mean to come across as blaming the abuse for my actions, but I do believe it contributed to my overall state of mind - just as it does every single day. 

I do love and care for her greatly. I want to live a happy and fulfilling life with her and our kids. She is a wonderful mother to them and there are obviously issues between us. I want to repair those if she will work with me to resolve them all while I work on my own issues.

I appreciate your wishes for me and my life. Thank you.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I'll harp on it... You shouldn't have married an 18 yr old. And one that is not sexually compatible with you. Even from the start.
So little sex, so little bonding. It's fine she is a good mom. But she doesn't seem to be a good wife. You're sexually deprived and missing intimacy that could also help you heal from the abuse. 

If she won't get help and become sexual. Move on.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I should clear up a bit more. (I was on the road earlier)
You need help with your trauma... I can tell you this, don't let it own you or be an excuse for your actions. My wife and I were both molested in our youth... I've had a life time of triggers without knowing why with only one big painful trigger event. But still, my wife cheated on me and our family.

Why did you marry an 18yr old teenager? People don't really mature until age 25+. Her lack of sexual desire (for you or in general) is very troublesome. Was she molested or repressed by parents? Is she "tiny" down there and you have a large johnson?


> *" Sometimes it would be up to six months or more between times for us. This was driving me crazy."*


 I would have done (I recommend you do) one of two things. Your wife either has NO sex drive or something is wrong - if she's not willing to work on that aspect of her... why SHOULD she be upset that you are using porn for sexual release?

Men and porn is typical... its what we do. 

She doesn't want MC... which is not a good sign. She has demands on you. YOu are both wrong. Its understandable that you care about her. But its not fair on YOU to be celibate with her. Either she opens the marriage up for you to get some. (doubt that) or do both of you a favor - get divorced. You start being honest and be single , date women. And your wife gets to enjoy not being bothered by you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I really don't get why you'd want to work toward reconciling at all. To what end? To get back to a crappy sexless marriage? Why bother? My opinion might be different if you were attempting to divorce and your wife was promising the world to make the marriage better, but that's not the case. The best you can hope for is to go back to a terrible marriage.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Shades of Gray said:


> Agreed, I chose the wrong path. It kind of fell to me and I followed it.
> 
> Right now you are also correct. I don't think she is interested in solving that issue, but I hold out hope based on what she has told me. I think we were caught in a loop of things she did to push me away and things I did to compensate that sent us back and forth down that pathway.
> 
> Over the long term I don't know yet. That pathway has yet to be determined, but I want to repair what I can to the best of my ability.


Even for people who had fantastic sex lives before infidelity find it hard (except for hysterical bonding) to get their footing back in regards of sex trying to detangle the emotional fall out with the physical.

You're starting out on a handicap, you have to deal with the cheating and it's fallout, then deal with the sexlessness after that. You're looking at many years if you're lucky but it's most likely to be further prolonged limbo.

But this whole mess is a product of a life of indecisiveness, being weak (be it porn or not stopping yourself from these affairs) Yes you've had your issues but you need to own what you've been doing but also if you're physical needs aren't being met, then you either put up with it and respect her by not doing the porn and the affairs or you leave and have a relationship with someone more compatible.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

All I read was excuse after excuse after excuse in the OP's first post.

OP, you need to face the fact that at 33 - as a supposed *ADULT* - you somehow thought it was the right thing to do to marry an 18 year old *teenage girl* who barely just graduated high school (she _did_ graduate first, didn't she?) You don't need to be a damned rocket scientist to see how ridiculously foolish and ill-fated that decision was. But you've been seeing the results of it for YEARS, haven't you?

It's painfully obvious that over the course of your marriage, your child bride grew up and sees this sham of a marriage for what it really is. She's not emotionally, physically or mentally invested at* all* and it would appear she's just been coasting for years because she doesn't know what else to do. She's never been allowed to be an ADULT and live her life independently as an adult because she went from pep rallies and proms right to being married to some emotional cripple in his 30's. Way to steal someone's youth. Jesus.

I have the feeling she just doesn't know what else to do because she has ZERO life experience as an individual and is petrified to be on her own, so that's probably why she's agreed to go to counseling because she thinks it's going to be some kind of magic cure that's going to make everything ok.

It won't.

The kindest thing you could do is let this poor woman go so she can grow independently the way she SHOULD have been allowed to do years ago.


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

I appreciate each and every response and reply here. I am about to be out of town and am uncertain if I will be able to access the forum here. I don't have time to reply at the moment, but will when I can.


SOG


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