# Sexless and Clueless



## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Forgive me, I know many people have posted about sexless spouses before. Many posts about it. I had to vent.

Despite being fairly ok normally, I am grumpy today. O forget grumpy, I am pi$$ed off. Why? Because I got up this morning after having a good dream. That may sound stupid but that is the way it is.

The dream was not perverted but my spouse might think it was. I dreamed that it was years ago. My spouse and I were at a beach. We sneaked to a hidden area in the dunes and we did things that married people do. Of course this never happened in real life.

Then I woke up to reality. I Walked pass the room where my spouse sleeps and got breakfast for my son. At the same time realizing how many months it has been....AGAIN. How it has been for the past 17 years. Wondering when life is going to be fun.

Oh, here is my spouse now, asking me a question. I snapped back an answer. Spouse asked me why are you angry? Answer was, Why am I always angry it is the same old. You know why. Spouse: I know that but why this morning? Me: Why not?

We have been through this so many times before. Spouse already knows why I am in a bad mood. Talked and talked about it before. Threatened the big D if things do not change before. Told spouse how I hate myself walking threw the mall and not being able to stop looking at everything that walks my way. Questioning myself if I am some sort of freak. Previous sessions in MC.

I also in the past sent my spouse a long email explaining in more detail how this had affected me and our relationship. In that email I sent this link telling her to read as many of the comments as possible at the bottom of the page. A lot of them could have been from both me and my spouse.

Living Without Sex

When ever I let my anger go my spouse tries to make me happy, sometimes. Why do I have to get angry? Tries to make me happy in every way except one.

Spouse had told me in the past that "I get it, I know" But is that the truth? 

For you people that have been there do you think your spouse really knows or still no matter what remains clueless?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

CrazyGuy,

I hear ya. I have been struggling hard with this very thing for about a year now. (The "sexless" part has been about 10 years though doesn't sound as drastic as yours).

For my wife, I honestly believe that she knows that it affects/bothers me but I don't think she gets the severity of it. I don't think they see how pervasive it becomes.

Good luck to you...


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## Cogo123 (Jan 5, 2012)

How can married couples not like to have sex? Its a part of the love and affection you feel for one another. Its not the most important thing in a relationship but its an enjoyable part of it. My husband can go weeks without sex and it bothers me that it cannot be more. I am thinking it may be because he is extremely joverweight and not comfortable with himself. 
If you ask her why she doesn't like sex what is her response?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Cogo123,

I cannot speak for CrazyGuy's situation but for mine it isn't that she doesn't like sex it is just that it doesn't even cross her radar. While I think about it several times an hour she doesn't think about it at ALL.


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## Cogo123 (Jan 5, 2012)

Did she like sex a lot in the beginning of your relationship? 
Sometimes that is a big warning sign that people miss. If she didn't like it then she wouldn't be any better about it later in your marriage.
Strange she doesn't get excited watching a love scene in a movie or buy sexy nightwear that would entice her. 
Its difficult to change someone who doesn't see that the issue is bigger than what she thinks. She probably thinks you will always be there no matter what. That can really be a big problem for a lot of marriages when the spouse looks elsewhere for what they are not getting at home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Cogo123,

No, actually early on she had as high or higher drive than I did. Nothing "turns her on". She doesn't oogle other men, actors, or anything. It's like "poof" she went asexual.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Cogo123 said:


> How can married couples not like to have sex? Its a part of the love and affection you feel for one another. Its not the most important thing in a relationship but its an enjoyable part of it. My husband can go weeks without sex and it bothers me that it cannot be more. I am thinking it may be because he is extremely joverweight and not comfortable with himself.
> If you ask her why she doesn't like sex what is her response?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"I do not need that in my life, I do not feel the need for touch." "I do not think it is that important" "There is no reason for it if we are not going to have more kids" "What if I was in a accident and we could not have sex, would you leave me?" "when we do it you are always touching my boobs and groping me" 

It is a long list. 

Sometime in the next two years we will have sex. After I have done everything rite. Not asked about too often or too little. After we both had showers. After our child is asleep. With the lights out. In the bed room and only in one position. It will be boring.

This was not the way it was before marriage. Sex was great. Nothing changed except the ring. She lived with me before marriage.

She don't like porn. That is fine with me, I do not too. She always turned down going to those sex toy parties her friends had. "there immature"


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> Living Without Sex


Some of the quotes on this page are insane.. who are these people? Especially the "marriage counselor."


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

nader said:


> Some of the quotes on this page are insane.. who are these people? Especially the "marriage counselor."


That why I said some could have come from my spouse.


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## Cogo123 (Jan 5, 2012)

nader said:


> Some of the quotes on this page are insane.. who are these people? Especially the "marriage counselor."



The different quotes sound like ways of turning the issue around and almost making you feel badly for even bringing up the situation.
It seems to me like she isn't going to change and its up to you to decide if you can deal with a sexless marriage. Difficult situation to be in because you love your wife other than this issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

*After I have done everything rite. Not asked about too often or too little. After we both had showers. After our child is asleep. With the lights out. In the bed room and only in one position. It will be boring.*
I wouldnt write it off so quickly. It may be better than nothing.
Must agree having looked at that site.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

CrazyGuy,

Dang you sound exactly like my situation. Is the rest of your marriage good? That is my problem. Everything else is great. Sure, we have our ups and downs at times but it makes it darn harder..


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

So is mine.
My wife was reading about a husband who was always buying his wife things. She asked me why am I not like that. I didnt tell her. But she really doesnt get it. She refuses me and then expects me still to buy her things.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

my wife will throw me a bone once or twice every 4 or 5 months...ya MONTHS and doesnt understand my utter hopelessness. And then if I cheat I am evil. If I try to leave honorably I've abandoned my children the same way my **** of a father did me. No win.


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## Cogo123 (Jan 5, 2012)

Accept
Why do you have to buy someone's affection? You should both want to be together because you love each other. Women who expect gifts from their husbands seem superficial. 
I never get gifts for any holiday or Anniversary. If you think about it the money you are using is both of yours and could be put to better use than cards, flowers or candy or jewelry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I suppose you are male. Apparently women are different. They always have to receive gifts. Some also realise they also have to give, although not all. I must agree with you though, that its the ones who dont really deserve them what you call 'superficial' are the ones who need them. Whatever I buy is never good anyway, and if I dont take it back she gives it away. 
I bought her a bread maker since she makes her own and I have to eat it. I thought what could go wrong. She wouldnt look at the instructions and recipes she knows better. I decided to once when she wasnt there make it myself following the instructions. When she saw the bread and tasted she started screaming why had I gone to buy in a shop when she can make her own. I showed her the 'dirty' bread maker that I had made it myself, she started screaming why didnt I wash it then I said to prove I hadnt bought it. You cant win at least I cant. Now at least she does follow the recipe book.
I bought a bread slicer its quite cheap. She says she can do it quicker and better by hand (since I bought it) and should take it back. My neighbour came to me who also makes her own bread and said that my wife had told her to stop cutting it all herself and where can she get a slicer cheap like I did. 
My wife has to write her name and address etc a lot daily. I bought her a stamp, she wont use it saying its quicker for her to write it. Again because I bought it. Oh I need my own site not just my own thread.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

Just a bit more.
She called a worker to fix a lock which I am quite capable of doing. He didnt do the job properly and the key wouldnt work well. She wouldnt agree till she was once waiting in the rain half an hour till I came because she couldnt get in that she let me redo it this time properly.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

And some more.
The thermostat of the heating is in the warmest place of the house. In a room without windows which she hardly uses. This makes the rest of the house cold all the time if the heater is on there. She says the heater has to be on there for when she uses it. At last I managed to say it was suddenly 'broken' and turn it off, and now the house is warm. She says she will get someone to repair it but so far is quite satisfied the house is at last warm.


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## Cogo123 (Jan 5, 2012)

No I am a female.
I am very OK with not getting gifts. Materialistic things are not important. I would rather spend time cuddling on the couch watching a movie, taking a walk, cooking together etc. I dislike the women that tell you what they want and expect their husbands to buy it! What is that all about.
You are dealing with a high maintenance wife. Good luck with that! 




accept said:


> And some more.
> The thermostat of the heating is in the warmest place of the house. In a room without windows which she hardly uses. This makes the rest of the house cold all the time if the heater is on there. She says the heater has to be on there for when she uses it. At last I managed to say it was suddenly 'broken' and turn it off, and now the house is warm. She says she will get someone to repair it but so far is quite satisfied the house is at last warm.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Cogo123 said:


> No I am a female.
> I am very OK with not getting gifts. Materialistic things are not important. I would rather spend time cuddling on the couch watching a movie, taking a walk, cooking together etc. I dislike the women that tell you what they want and expect their husbands to buy it! What is that all about.
> You are dealing with a high maintenance wife. Good luck with that!
> 
> ...


I agree. Gifts are far from being important. 

My husband and I do not usually exchange gifts. We actually gift ourselves instead to each other with intimacy. Except this year he did surprise me with a new pillow from select comfort. It has the microfiber down. I forgot what it was called. I have a spine/neck injury, so I thought this was an amazing gift. He is always trying to make me feel better. I love him to pieces.

To crazyguy, so sorry about your wife. Hubby and I have had our ups and downs with sex. I did NOT know how important sex was until I started reading articles and this site. Luckily for hubby my drive kicked in full gear. Maybe unlucky.lol. My drive is higher then his at the moment, but it's because he does so much for me and I absolutely adore him. I get turned on just by thinking about him or the sound of his voice. My hubby and I get along super well, even when my drive was low. My husband never complained about it ever. I did apologize for the past and turning him down. That's because he does so much for me and giving him intmacy is the least I can do. He's so sweet, he said we never had a problem in the past and there was no reason to apologize.

A lot of women just truly do not understand what it does not giving their husbands passionate sex. I believe sex should be passionate as well. Disconnected sex is not that great either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inmygut (Apr 2, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> Forgive me, I know many people have posted about sexless spouses before. Many posts about it. I had to vent.
> 
> Despite being fairly ok normally, I am grumpy today. O forget grumpy, I am pi$$ed off. Why? Because I got up this morning after having a good dream. That may sound stupid but that is the way it is.
> 
> ...


Check out the Married Man Sex Life blog. Buy the book. Trust me, it will help you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

I can totally understand the OP's frustruation/anger you feel when sex gets less frequent.  My situation isn't as drastic as the cases I read on this site, but I guess that's relative. 
I'm lucky enough that my wife knows that its not healthy to go without sex too long and attempts for my sake (not ideal but I do appreciate the effort). Which is better than the stock answer I often read here when the wife thinks nothing is wrong with the sexless arrangement. 
One thing that she's told me recently that I've tried to internalize is that when I do get angry/moody/short with her, it makes her resent me and she wants to hold out even more. So it becomes this bad cycle.

-we dont have sex because whatever reason (which in her mind is valid)
-it goes too long and I get pissy and moody with her
-she begins to get resentful of me cause of my behavior
-no chance of sex happening for awhile

I'm sure this pattern is very common in relationships. Until someone breaks the pattern, it will continue to cycle and spiral out of control.


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> Forgive me, I know many people have posted about sexless spouses before. Many posts about it. I had to vent.
> 
> For you people that have been there do you think your spouse really knows or still no matter what remains clueless?


I found that this article sums up my feelings on sex quite nicely and better than I could articulate. Have her read them. Maybe she really doesn't get it. 

When a Woman Isn't in the Mood: Part I - Page 1 - Dennis Prager - Townhall Conservative

I don't understand the attraction that women have to shopping. It's like the 100th thing on my list of priorities. But every female I know is always at the mall or target or hallmark or some store. Maybe your wife would understand if you framed sex as if it were shopping. Honey you can't go shopping unless I come along. And guess what, I don't want to go. When will I want to go, oh I don't know, how is next month?


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I Know said:


> I found that this article sums up my feelings on sex quite nicely and better than I could articulate. Have her read them. Maybe she really doesn't get it.
> 
> When a Woman Isn't in the Mood: Part I - Page 1 - Dennis Prager - Townhall Conservative
> 
> I don't understand the attraction that women have to shopping. It's like the 100th thing on my list of priorities. But every female I know is always at the mall or target or hallmark or some store. Maybe your wife would understand if you framed sex as if it were shopping. Honey you can't go shopping unless I come along. And guess what, I don't want to go. When will I want to go, oh I don't know, how is next month?


Thanks for this link. I found it informational. Many things I could relate too. I am not sure how my wife will react to the have sex even if you are not in the mood part of it though.

You have to make sure you do not miss page 2 of the article. You also got to do a search for part II. I wish it was more neutral as there are women with the same problem.

The shopping comment you made is a good Idea. I know it was a joke. It would help our financial house get in order.

Thank everybody else for the comments so far. I need to post more but I just do not have much time to do it now.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

accept said:


> I suppose you are male. Apparently women are different. They always have to receive gifts. Some also realise they also have to give, although not all. I must agree with you though, that its the ones who dont really deserve them what you call 'superficial' are the ones who need them. Whatever I buy is never good anyway, and if I dont take it back she gives it away.
> I bought her a bread maker since she makes her own and I have to eat it. I thought what could go wrong. She wouldnt look at the instructions and recipes she knows better. I decided to once when she wasnt there make it myself following the instructions. When she saw the bread and tasted she started screaming why had I gone to buy in a shop when she can make her own. I showed her the 'dirty' bread maker that I had made it myself, she started screaming why didnt I wash it then I said to prove I hadnt bought it. You cant win at least I cant. Now at least she does follow the recipe book.
> I bought a bread slicer its quite cheap. She says she can do it quicker and better by hand (since I bought it) and should take it back. My neighbour came to me who also makes her own bread and said that my wife had told her to stop cutting it all herself and where can she get a slicer cheap like I did.
> My wife has to write her name and address etc a lot daily. I bought her a stamp, she wont use it saying its quicker for her to write it. Again because I bought it. Oh I need my own site not just my own thread.


It may very well be that she doesn't really want gifts, or that she wants different kinds of gifts (like not something practical like a breadmaker or breadcutter, but something impractical and whimsical.)

That all falls in line with the "5 Love Languages" by Chapman. As several other women on the thread indicated, gifts do not speak to them. Me either.

But, I am a words of affirmation person. If I were in the situation as a breadmaking wife, my husband's words of praise on how good the bread was, what a great cook I am, and how much he appreciates that I care to do that would be the things that would ring my bell.

You might want to consider whether you are really looking at the wrong things in regards to your wife. Many wives are very adverse to telling their husband these things - they think it is more meaningful if you discover these things yourself. Anyway, just a suggestion.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Don't give your wife that article.

You know what sex means to you: If your wife is sexual with you, it confirms to you that you are loved and valued. A woman does not feel loved and valued when a man wants to have sex with her. Why is that? Because all men your wife has ever met wanted to have sex with her. It is not a rare commodity. For a woman to agree to sex with a man, that is a rare commodity.

What you really need to do is uncover your wife's equivalent of sex... What is is that makes her feel loved and special? And give that to her in droves. And, it could very well be gifts. All people are different. Some women or men equate getting a gift with being loved. Some do not. Part of the journey you take in your marriage is to learn what is meaningful to your wife.

Once you figure out what she appreciates, and you give it to her over a period of a few months, that's when you lead her into realizing that SEX will give you those nice happy loving feelings that she is getting from you.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> Thanks for this link. I found it informational. Many things I could relate too. I am not sure how my wife will react to the have sex even if you are not in the mood part of it though.
> 
> You have to make sure you do not miss page 2 of the article. You also got to do a search for part II. I wish it was more neutral as there are women with the same problem.
> 
> ...


Well, articles, education, and communication are okay as long as they are not pushed on a person ad nauseum. Because in the end, it will be your wife who has to make the decision to follow through and do something, and it gets quite old to have someone always throwing another article or email or discussion at you.

The problem with the last linked article "when the women isn't in the mood" is that it seems to imply that because a woman doesn't understand the man therein lies the problem. But sex is a mutual experience between the spouses. And it requires the man to understand the woman just as much.

So, after all the talking and articles and trying to get your wife to understand, you need to stop and let it soak in. And you need to work to determine if there are things you are missing that your wife needs from you ... what makes her tick? what makes her respond? And not just in a sexual sense. You will have to expand your range of thinking to her emotional sense and well-being. So, a period of impartial observation, followed by starting to tweak some of your behaviours can help.

And, if you haven't considered MC so you can learn these together, or at least IC so that you can learn some things just on your own, you may want to consider that.

Best wishes.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Ok here is the deal. Our marriage is messed up in so many areas but I was trying to address the one that sticks out the most, the one that changed after the ring went on her finger. I think deep down it has crept and has been the source of problems in other areas.

We both have self esteem issues. For me I think having sex on a regular basis would help. I always been an understanding easy going nice guy. That is starting to change though because it has been going on for so long with out any change.

For her she has to look like the perfect person to everybody else. She does everything for everybody except for me and herself. She came from a broken home. She was thrown out of the house at a early age. Although she was thrown out she never had to budget or pay rent ect. She just always stayed with a friend or sister. 

We bought a house together before we were married 18 years ago. She would not hold a job. I knew this trait and accepted it. We got married and bamm, no sex.

Over the years I have tried to make her feel special. I did not mention the sex problem as I thought it would change on its own. Over time though it has gotten to the point where I just hit her over the head with whats bugging me. Pretending nothing is wrong and waiting or dropping hints has not worked. Hitting her over the head has also not worked.

I have been on every shade of understanding and caring to demanding. The only time I get a response is when I am a big a-hole. Like get the h- out I had enough. Being on her own scares her and it is the only time she will cry. Then things will be ok for a little while. But I do not keep that attitude up, it is not me. There has been no cheating, abuse, alcohol problem ect. I am at work or at home, no clubbing ect.

Finance wise we are screwed. This I tried to change many times. But she just goes out and gets credit cards on her own and tells me it is none of my business. Not much I can do there except not bale her out again. I cashed out my 401k to pay off what I could last time.

The same mistakes are made over and over again. I do not understand why she does not see them.

We have been to MC before. She did not like it because she felt like everything was being blamed on her. I have tried to tell her not to feel blame but to look at it as things that need changed. I know that I have been an enabler. I did not like it because I was working my but off and it was just another expense.

I do not know if she loves me and the problem is self esteem or she just married me because she needed a home. What ever it comes from she turned very bitter. I no longer even know if I love her. I started to get panic attacks when I would drive home from work three years ago. On meds for that now.

The only thing that has held us together so long is our 10 year old and religion beliefs. She wanted more kids but I was not willing because I know this is not a marriage. We had one because I thought it would help, we both wanted a child anyways. We both love our child very much but it has divided us even more. She still co sleeps and takes the summers off from work. She was a stay at home mom for many years.

It seems the more I gave the more she felt guilt. The less I gave she felt resentment.

It is at a point that I do not feel like a man. I have lots of thoughts about cheating. I do not know if I love her. I do not know if she loves me. Feeling unloved sucks. 

I hate what I have become. Now you know why I am a Crazy Guy.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Well, you don't have to be a 'crazy guy'. 

I normally think that sex is just the 'canary in the relationship coal mine'. It is a harbinger of the real issues that are going on in a relationship. If you can address the real underlying issues, oftentimes the sex will improve.

So, if you have these issues that you know about, why not work them? Why not go and do some IC (individual counseling, not marriage counseling) -both of you, or at least you if your wife won't go - and start giving yourself a long overdue overhaul. Work on those self-esteem issues.

What have you got to lose? By the looks of it not much. What have you got to gain? By the looks of it potentially a lot.

Best wishes.


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

My situation is similar to yours. About a year ago I decided that if we are going to live like roommates and not husband and wife that I would treat her like a roommate. I did not make a big announcement or anything and really I did not change to much but after a couple of months my wife said to me “you don’t treat me the same as you use to” and I told her that it was too much work for too little pay off and that no matter how nice, helpful, thoughtful, ect I was that she had treated me more like a roommate and so it was time for me to worry about me. It was a real wake-up call for her and it helped a lot. I think she realized that we are not just co-existing together and that she wants my attention and affection because once it was gone she could tell the difference. Good luck.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I have worked on my self esteem issues. What holds me back is feeling unloved. Feeling like I threw away 20 years of my life. I just need allitle push every now and then. But I never get that. For instance I was going to start my own business. What I got from her was "I do not think you can do it". Well thanks for your support.

I can not force her to get the help she needs. She will not go. She is not able to give me reasons why she is the way she is. I asked. She understands there are problems but she seems unwilling to correct them. So where does that leave me? I can not be happy because she is unhappy for no reason?

This is starting to read like my other thread. I did not want to go into dept hear. But that is ok.

This thread was a attempt to figure out if it is possible that some people could be clueless on the importance of sex even after it has been pointed out to them. Perhaps you do not think sex is important. To me it is. Perhaps I am overreacting to not having sex in one or two year spans. I would like it everyday.


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## Noel1987 (Jan 2, 2012)

It makes lot points on your statement crazyguy


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

I agree with the post where the man started treating his wife like a roommate because she was doing the same to him. My wife (45 yrs old). Has lost her drive throughout the years and it has gotten to the point where we go several months between and always after I have asked her several times (It really ruins it when your'e having sex with someone who doesn't want it). I have stopped asking and it has been 3 months, with no end in sight. She quite frankly just doesn't need it anymore and I should just be fine with that. I have decided to start treating her like a room mate too, but am unsure just what steps to take (although I have a few in mind right now).


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

russ101 said:


> I agree with the post where the man started treating his wife like a roommate because she was doing the same to him. My wife (45 yrs old). Has lost her drive throughout the years and it has gotten to the point where we go several months between and always after I have asked her several times (It really ruins it when your'e having sex with someone who doesn't want it). I have stopped asking and it has been 3 months, with no end in sight. She quite frankly just doesn't need it anymore and I should just be fine with that. I have decided to start treating her like a room mate too, but am unsure just what steps to take (although I have a few in mind right now).


I have tried that. It backfired. All it got me was two years of no sex. Nothing was noticed until I flipped out. Like somebody else said. A roommate dose not mind if you bring somebody else home and you still can not do that.


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## Cogo123 (Jan 5, 2012)

You tried working it out with her but she doesn't get it. It is difficult to make someone do something they do not want to do. I would make yourself happy because she is doing what makes her happy. Life is too short to be misrable!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

The reason why treating my wife like a roommate worked for me was because it helped to stop making sex such a big deal. In the past I would stay up late cleaning the kitchen or listening to her talk or watching a chick flick thinking it would have some kind of payoff, then when it didn’t I was mad the next morning. Once I changed my mindset I was able to allow myself to go to bed at ten and get up and run for an hour and feel great about what I did for myself instead of being mad that I stayed up late and got nothing. It was more of a mindset inside of me but it had a good outcome because my wife noticed the difference and realized romance is a two way street. If she wanted me to be attentive to her emotional needs she needed to be more attentive to my physical needs. But as I did things to make myself happy I really did feel better, I no longer let her control my happiness.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> It may very well be that she doesn't really want gifts, or that she wants different kinds of gifts (like not something practical like a breadmaker or breadcutter, but something impractical and whimsical.)
> 
> That all falls in line with the "5 Love Languages" by Chapman. As several other women on the thread indicated, gifts do not speak to them. Me either.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with this, I also fall into the affirmation category. My husband could buy me a Porche tomorrow with a big pink bow on it, I would of course say thank you. But if he said to me instead "I really like your driving, it's very relaxing for me", I would light up and have a big smile on my face.

Anyway, you get the point, I don't want material gifts, I need to feel loved in other ways, nice comments, be adored etc.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

*But, I am a words of affirmation person. If I were in the situation as a breadmaking wife, my husband's words of praise on how good the bread was, what a great cook I am, and how much he appreciates that I care to do that would be the things that would ring my bell.

You might want to consider whether you are really looking at the wrong things in regards to your wife. Many wives are very adverse to telling their husband these things - they think it is more meaningful if you discover these things yourself. Anyway, just a suggestion*
This comment was addressed to me. Perhaps you misunderstood mine. The breadmaker wasnt bought in appreciation of how good her bread was.


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> You might want to consider whether you are really looking at the wrong things in regards to your wife. Many wives are very adverse to telling their husband these things - they think it is more meaningful if you discover these things yourself. Anyway, just a suggestion.


How is your mate supposed to know what you want if you do not tell them?:scratchhead:

Now, I am going to guess that you do not operate like this in your marriage Enchantment. You sound much wiser than that....

Getting what you want is a 2 step process:
1. Know what you want
2. Ask for it


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I Know said:


> How is your mate supposed to know what you want if you do not tell them?:scratchhead:
> 
> Now, I am going to guess that you do not operate like this in your marriage Enchantment. You sound much wiser than that....
> 
> ...


For me after we have both been miserable for 17 years, MC, talks ect, A guessing game would seem childish. My wife and I both know there is something wrong. That much we agree on.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

accept said:


> *But, I am a words of affirmation person. If I were in the situation as a breadmaking wife, my husband's words of praise on how good the bread was, what a great cook I am, and how much he appreciates that I care to do that would be the things that would ring my bell.
> 
> You might want to consider whether you are really looking at the wrong things in regards to your wife. Many wives are very adverse to telling their husband these things - they think it is more meaningful if you discover these things yourself. Anyway, just a suggestion*
> This comment was addressed to me. Perhaps you misunderstood mine. The breadmaker wasnt bought in appreciation of how good her bread was.


Ahh... now I see why she was not happy with the breadmaker and is perhaps skeptical of other gifts.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I Know said:


> How is your mate supposed to know what you want if you do not tell them?:scratchhead:
> 
> Now, I am going to guess that you do not operate like this in your marriage Enchantment. You sound much wiser than that....
> 
> ...


I was only suggesting that accept's wife perhaps feels that he should be able to read her mind. 

Obviously, that is not a good mindset to have in a marriage, but it is all too common for both men and women.

What I have found is that it can be very hard to verbalize things that are inherently feelings. So, for me to verbalize to my H that I am just not feeling loved or desired is difficult - he always needs specific examples and I can sometimes not give them. And he's exactly the same way!

However, I have found that there are many ways to communicate, and that sometimes 'listening' to our mates with things other than our ears - such as with our eyes and with open hearts - can reveal many things that words cannot.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

*I was only suggesting that accept's wife perhaps feels that he should be able to read her mind.*
I can assure you that we are on the same wave length. My wife always knows what I am thinking without me telling her. I just say what am I thinking and she tells me straight off. Reading her mind is much more difficult, though, since it changes all the time.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

CrazyGuy, 
Great thread. What is holding you back from a trial separation? 
You already sleep in separate rooms. How would it feel to get up in the morning with no one to be grumpy at? How would it feel to have an exit plan?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

nader said:


> Some of the quotes on this page are insane.. who are these people? Especially the "marriage counselor."


There is a nugget of truth to what the marriage counselor said. It is that the men would be much happier knowing the truth and thus having the ability to act accordingly.

My ex wronged me in two ways. One was, obviously, by being a terribly disinterested sexual partner. The second was by blaming me for the poor sex life. We could endlessly debate whether she was fitness testing me (not likely), manipulating me with sex to get things she wanted (very likely), and/or desperate for me to not know the truth so I would not leave (somewhat less likely).

I think she knew very early on (within a few months) that she did not desire me sexually. I would have been much happier if she had told me the truth early on so that I could have acted accordingly. I almost certainly would have left her and certainly would not have put much time and effort into the relationship.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> For her she has to look like the perfect person to everybody else. She does everything for everybody except for me and herself. She came from a broken home. She was thrown out of the house at a early age. Although she was thrown out she never had to budget or pay rent ect. She just always stayed with a friend or sister.
> 
> We bought a house together before we were married 18 years ago. She would not hold a job. I knew this trait and accepted it. We got married and bamm, no sex.
> 
> Over the years I have tried to make her feel special. I did not mention the sex problem as I thought it would change on its own. Over time though it has gotten to the point where I just hit her over the head with whats bugging me. Pretending nothing is wrong and waiting or dropping hints has not worked. Hitting her over the head has also not worked.


I think you are really close to the core of the issue. Her home was broken and she was responsible for her own upkeep at an early age (that she was always able to bum off of someone is not the point).

So, it's very possible she married you for security. My ex did the same. It seems that your wife is turned off by the mere thought of having to give something back. So, rather than marriage being a give and take where you give and she gives back, she is only decent to you when the flow of time, energy, attention to from you to her.

The problem, of course, is that nothing you can do will make her desire you. The thought of giving anything back to you inherently turns her off. Am I getting close?


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## ukv (Jul 6, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I agree. Gifts are far from being important.
> 
> My husband and I do not usually exchange gifts. We actually gift ourselves instead to each other with intimacy. Except this year he did surprise me with a new pillow from select comfort. It has the microfiber down. I forgot what it was called. I have a spine/neck injury, so I thought this was an amazing gift. He is always trying to make me feel better. I love him to pieces.
> 
> ...


I wish my wife was the same as you. However lately I have only been commenting the same thing and only liking various posts from wives like you. My longing for this kind of magic happening with me is there ..... sometimes I apparently mislead myself into beliveing that I will divorce her... but not having the guts to do it.... despite being rejected and emotionally abused (preventing and withholding any kind sex) all the last 10 years of married life......


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## ukv (Jul 6, 2012)

DTO said:


> I think you are really close to the core of the issue. Her home was broken and she was responsible for her own upkeep at an early age (that she was always able to bum off of someone is not the point).
> 
> So, it's very possible she married you for security. My ex did the same. It seems that your wife is turned off by the mere thought of having to give something back. So, rather than marriage being a give and take where you give and she gives back, she is only decent to you when the flow of time, energy, attention to from you to her.
> 
> The problem, of course, is that nothing you can do will make her desire you. The thought of giving anything back to you inherently turns her off. Am I getting close?


DTO: I have become your fan as I have of EleGirl, that_girl, mina and others. You call a spade a spade and very quickly get to the essence of the matter. I am so mentally fatigued at tiems that all I can do is be happy at how my views are being articulated by people like you so nicely. 
I know this sounds really shocking and absurd - I think there are so many of people like us that the line of thought should be generally taught and propogated.... it seems that the truths that you and so many other knowledgable people know even though simple sounds really complicated and non obvious to others

CrazyGuy : Its time for D if you can do that.... I really would but my life is so full of other problems that I can hardly pile it up with another one - D. 
My wife has been living off me for 10 years and still been withholding any kind of satisfying sex and affection.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

DTO, I think you nailed it. Things were looking up for me. I did finally do the separation thing. It did not take long. Things turned around quickly, sex every day, thought everything was fixed and it was for a short time. It amazes me how it can be turned on and back off again so quickly. She is constantly telling me "I love you." She gives me sexual hints but no follow up. It has been months since the last time we had sex. Our son was away from home all last weekend for 3 nights. She ended up staying at another house to dog sit for somebody that went on vacation. She told me that there is no reason that a dog should be lonely! Picking a dog over me does not sit well. She tells everybody how great things are going. I am pleasant to her but at this point I now know that she does understand that I am unhappy with all of this. I wish she would just admit the truth. We could make something work so we both get what we need. Perhaps she is lying to herself. I have no Idea.

UKV, As for a D... I would have done that by now except for one thing. My son is important to me. Joint custody would not work for me besides the fact we all know she would get custody anyways. That is just the way it is. I need to be there for my son. I am trying to stick it out until my son is old enough. But it is also a hard thing to know that I am just throwing my life away. My only chance of happiness is to make sure my son is happy and does not fall in the same trap that I did. 

As you might tell I have given up in trying to fix this. I can not change her no matter what and I can not walk away from my responsibilities. I want her to want sex from me and not just do it because of duty. At this point even if she wanted sex I would wonder why and what she is really up to. I am at a point that I am turned off by her sight. I come here from time to time just to check and see if there was something I missed. I was surprised to see new comments on this thread. Thanks all.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

CrazyGuy said:


> UKV, As for a D... I would have done that by now except for one thing. My son is important to me. Joint custody would not work for me besides the fact we all know she would get custody anyways. That is just the way it is. I need to be there for my son. I am trying to stick it out until my son is old enough. But it is also a hard thing to know that I am just throwing my life away. My only chance of happiness is to make sure my son is happy and does not fall in the same trap that I did.


Oh my God yes.. I have 5 sons...and I honestly WORRY about this happening to them....the last thing I want to see is for any of them to marry a a cold fish refuser....or just doesn't like the act, or doing it solely out of obligation. It will destroy their lives & they will curse the day they married. I talk openly with my sons about women & what to look for, the red flags, and making sure they are compatible, all of it... these things are just too darn important. I've read too many heartbreaking stories on here. 

I do wonder what you will teach your son -after your experience though....that might make a good thread. 

I was just starting to write a post for another thread where everyone says "just divorce" if you in a sexless marraige.... I know it is not THAT easy for many, especially men, I agree with you, the MOMs almost always get the kids....would be nice if it was that damn simple.. 

I've always felt the very BEST of men stay for their children.. that is #1 to them... they sacrifice their own happiness for them.... and anyway -how does one explain to their children (when young) that Daddy is leaving Mommy over sex. As if that would ever go over very well. 

Do your homework, Learn what the earliest is for your son to have a "choice" who he lives with..you know he is going to choose DAD, sons are like that! Then leave her in the dust. You deserve so much better Crazy Guy!


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words SA. I often wonder if I am strong or weak for staying. For me I just need to do what I think is best but not necessary best for me. I know that I am not alone, there are many like me. Knowing that helps me at times but other times it pisses me off. So many people that suffer for what? I just hope that I do not get tempted. There have been times in the past I may have made a bad choice. I do not want to be that kind of person. I would not be able to live with myself afterwords. 

You know this has shaken my faith for a long time now. I have been trying to find it. Not sure if I will or not. I would like to believe there is a purpose to this all. I often wonder what would displease God more. A divorce or this mockery of marriage? 

As for "best dad" I like to think of myself as just a dad that tries to get it right. There is just not enough time in a day to do everything.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

@ crazyguy

So u separated from your wife for a bit, got back together and things sexually got better only for it to backslide into a sexless arrangement again?

That proves that she completely takes you for granted and any excuse she offers for not having sex is just that - excuses. 

My heart totally goes out for you. our periods w/o sex isn't that long but its the utter lack of passion behind it. Im tired of feeling like a chore to her. Im sick of hearing how 'tired' she is than she stays up until 11pm doing menial chores and relaxing in the tub. Im worn out from my needs, our marriage being an afterthought to her. its like Im the only one who cares and she only puts in more than minimum effort once i throw a fit about the state of things. theres days i wonder if Im even in love with her anymore. 

i used to be the love of her life she would move mountains to make me happy and please me - nowdays its barely a thought in her mind.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Surely not alone...a thread started here....it's all about the children ....why so many remain in cold passionless marraiges. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-stay-sexually-unsatisfying-relationship.html



> *CrazyGuy said*: You know this has shaken my faith for a long time now. I have been trying to find it. Not sure if I will or not. I would like to believe there is a purpose to this all. I often wonder what would displease God more. A divorce or this mockery of marriage?


 Well I ain't God, so you can ignore me...but in my opionion...what your wife is doing to you -hands down, she slaughted the vows & spit them back in your face...no accountability there.... you have every right in this world to leave her & not be ashamed about it ...

But there IS the children, the innocents. 

I came from a broken home... I was a "casualty", It wasn't so easy - my dad went on to marry the love of his life (ironically my Moms best friend)... crazy story there.. She wasn't so nice to me-when I lived there in my teens (she didn't even want her own kids) but wanted my dad all to herself....but I got through it...I had my friends, other outlets.... 

Ya know, I thank God he did what he did -FOR HIM...for his own happiness, they are so very close, like "soul mates", She is such a blessing today...as his health is failing and the love between them, well, it is an inspiration TO ME . I KNOW he did the right thing when I was 9 yrs old to divorce my Mother. ...and carry on with another. 

My Mom was on a another planet, I remember them fighting --over sex too! NOT WORTH your parents being at each others throats..or even in the absence of fighting, they can sense the divide like a grand canyon in silence- without laughter in the home. In this it sets a very sour taste in their mouth to what marraige IS, or should be. Kids will see zero value in it -for themselves. This is what is tragic on their end. 

If your wife is a Christian herself, shame shame on her -in light of these scriptures, for turning a blind eye >>



> But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.
> 
> The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.
> 
> ...


 The only problem I have with these scriptures, using a little reason , is blaming SATAN as the scapegoat, I feel the cold heartless refusing spouse has planted the seeds of temptation in there other half -causing them to be very very weak. It is not an excuse... mind you, but if /when they fall, I would have some sympathy to how it happened. 

But yeah...best to divorce before it comes to that. We are only human & can take so much. So important to know our own limits.


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