# PA on her Birthday



## footballguy89

I won't get into the long story yet but just want to get some thoughts... 

Found wife's text to a girlfriend of hers that someone at work might like her. .. (read a text while using her phone to text my brother.. in emergency). Didn't say anything as we were on our way to vacation at our honeymoon spot with our little son and then see her dad. First vacation in 15 months, didn't want to ruin it. Wanted to also see if she would say anything. 3 months later, caught her telling her mom via phone (mom hates me, has causes too many problems in our marriage... more on that later.)

We go to marriage counselling. The guy did kiss her on my birthday when I was out of town. 2 weeks later on our anniversary, after supper she wanted to go to a co-workers birthday party... thought that was a little low... since I knew something could be up I played about how had a bad feeling. She said nothing was going on. 2 weeks later, was the phone call to her mom.

So 2 weeks later we start marriage counselling. I let her know upfront about how much I trust her, given our work schedules are opposite. She assures me she'd never sleep with anybody else. She also buys a couples devotional book. We read it for 10 days, then we were on our own for 7 days... she stopped reading it. Didn't say much. 1.5 months later, she goes to another birthday party... mentions how she was the designated driver, also that she gave POS a ride home last, as he lives out of town. I lay in hard, she says nothing happened. I say if I were him, I would have tried something. Later find out they fooled around that night.

Then 4 months later, she goes out with coworkers to celebrate her birthday 3 days afterwards. (given she works until 11:30 pm and I have to be out of the house by 6 am, it is not unusual for her to go out without me). Anyways, drinks a lot, on the drive home she gets a text from him asking if she wants to make out? She meets him in a parking lot and they end up having sex. (only time). HE wouldn't talk to her after. Tells me 2 months later. Life was ****ty for a long time. Not easy to leave as we have a 4 year old kid and know one else to help. We did talk about splitting up, we were okay with it. I knew I wasn't going to chase her if she left. Came home a few days later and she is a bawling mess. So I say don't leave.

Took about 3 months to realize I don't love her anymore, have no respect for her, etc. It's been 6 months since I last said I love you. We kind out agreed to give it a year. She's been trying, I haven't put in much effort.

We are now 9 months out, birthday is in 3 months. Thanks to a naturopathic I feel pretty good. Still feel liked she ruined our marriage and there is little chance of recovery.

Anybody have any advice... I'd been doing some 'protective things' incase we split but wondering if her birthday will be too big of a reminder. Debating myself if I should wait for her birthday, then let her know since she slept with someone on her birthday a year ago, I need to make a new memory, so I want a divorce.


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## workindad

How remorseful is she?

Did she get checked for STDs? since she put not only her physical health at risk, but yours also.

Has she written you a complete timeline of her affair and answered all questions openly honestly and with patience?

Consider paternity testing your son- it is cheap, painless and private. You can't be certain how many times she has gotten away with this before.

Has she been transparent or secretive? Is she still going out without you?

Does she still work with this guy?

What do you want? It sounds like you want out. Nothing wrong with that, she made this mess.


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## footballguy89

Sorry left out some details...

Married for 7 years when this started. Son is 100% mine.

She was remorseful when she told me then, thought she doesn't deserve me, etc. Got more remorseful as I kept getting worse.

She still works with the guy but they don't see each other every day... big place.

Gave me passwords and let's me check her cell. Obviously everything is deleted. Would like to recover messages and/or set it up so every message gets sent to me.

No STD check yet, might tell her to get one.

She left out the making out part, her story was her kissed her, lots of texting, then slept together 3 days after her birthday. 8 months after the kiss.

After getting busted for leaving out details, she has been honest. I did call the guy 1.5 months after I found out. The wife did leave out a few things... worst one was she said there was no oral sex, yet when I asked him who did the oral sex first he said he did, she didn't but said it was only for a few seconds. Wife also did mention she didn't orgasim (like that makes it better).


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## 6301

Seems like she kind of does what she wants to do and it's only after when she realizes that she's pushed you to the wall that she shows remorse.

There has to be more than "I'm sorry" to being remorseful and since she's been dishonest on more than one occasion, I can understand how you feel.

Your the only one who knows that if she can turn herself around. If you feel that there is nothing there, then I see no reason to stay.

I understand that with a child that it makes it more difficult but that doesn't mean that you can't be a good dad. 

If your not happy then move on. If she gets all emotional and cries about it, she has herself only to blame because she can't behave. 

If you didn't catch her, no doubt she would still be running around. Make yourself happy and find a good woman who will treat you right.


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## Will_Kane

Why did she risk losing you and breaking up her family?


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## Will_Kane

The story is very disjointed. Seems like there are a lot of gaps. A lot of time between a guy "liking" her, to a kiss, to "making out" to "meeting for sex." Especially for a guy she worked near. I don't feel too confident you have the full story. I think a lot more happened all along, but especially in the gaps. Can you see her phone bill for the time periods going back a year or so to see how frequently she was in contact with other man?

What was this? Sex? Love?


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## Will_Kane

Was there no attempt on her part to tell you how you weren't paying her enough attention, how lonely she was, etc., and that's why she had the affair?


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## workindad

I agree with WK- you have quite a gap between the kiss and admitted sex. I highly doubt you have all of the story yet. 

Ask her to put it all in writing if she hasn't already. Then ask her to take a polygraph. Judge her reaction- check out where they do them in your area. Follow thru- be prepared for a parking lot confession.


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## tainted

What are some of the things she has done to show you she is remorseful? She still works with the guy so it could have gone underground.


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## Regret214

From my personal experience as a former wayward, the only a kiss story is just that. A story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tainted

Whats the point of waiting for her bday to divorce her?


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## happyman64

footballguy

It only takes one to kill a marriage.

But it takes two to fix it.

Sure you feel she cheated so why should you have to fix anything.

Having a kid together is not enough of a reason for you to try?

If you have any love for your wife and she has any love left for you then you two have to decide to commit or not to reconciliation.

It takes hard work to fix a marriage.

What your wife needs to do is get some IC to figure out why she felt she had to cheat?

If you are going to stick around at least till her birthday why not make an honest effort on R?

At least you will be able to say you tried.

But at the same time demand that your wife finds out why she decided to destroy your marriage.

Good Luck and keep posting.

HM


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## Will_Kane

footballguy89 said:


> She meets him in a parking lot and they end up having sex. (only time).


If I had a dollar for every time I heard the "just one time" story on this site alone, I'd be ... well, I'd have at least a couple hundred dollars.


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## manticore

footballguy89 said:


> Took about 3 months to realize *I don't love her anymore, have no respect for her*, etc. It's been 6 months since I last said I love you. We kind out agreed to give it a year. She's been trying, I haven't put in much effort.


there is nothing wrong with this, what you are feeling in normal, some people just can overcome betrayal, I have read in some posts where people write stupid things like:

- If he loves you he should forgive you
- he is taking your mistake as excuse to leave
- why you want to be with such unforgiving person?

but the true is that your reaction is consequence of her actions, the betrayer even if he/she does not see it like it, becomes a totally new person of the Betrayed spouse, someone selfish that broke the most sacred bound between spouses for vanal and selfish satisfaction, so of course that person become a total new entity to the BS.

if in fact you feel that you will never be able to overcome her betrayal and you don't love her anymore, then leaving is the more healthy option, not just for you but also for her and your kid, trying to maintain a marriage where from now on will be resenment and mistrust is hopeless.

but don't be mistaken, is not your fault to feel like that, were the selfish actions of your wife which lead to this outcome, remember that it was not one mistake, there were kisses and fooling around previous to her PA, she could have stoped it but she prefered to continue seeking her thrill form a man who wants nothing form here now that he had got what he wanted (of course now she thinks it was not worth, but just now).


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## manticore

Regret214 said:


> From my personal experience as a former wayward, the only a kiss story is just that. A story.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this is also a real posibility, the affair maybe had many encounters and she just confessed the tip of the ice berg when he finally ended the realtionship foor good.


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## alte Dame

I hope you will pay attention to the experienced people here who are saying that there was definitely more than what she has confessed to.


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## thummper

There are wonderful people on here who can give you tons of good advice, but since you have come right out and said you don't love her anymore, why bother. Make sure your little one is taken care of and then bail out. Let her know, hey, there are plenty of backseats you haven't tried out yet, better get started. Take care of yourself.


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## footballguy89

It was mostly texting early, calls don't show up on the phone bill. They knew it was wrong, so they'd stop then start a few weeks later. Of course she mentioned pay more attention to me. But after our vacation, she had a huge fight with her parents (blamed me, so I pulled back) as they are complete POS. So it was a rough summer, which help set up the kiss. I don't believe everything she says but I do believe the kiss, 4 months later make out, 4 months later, sex. I got the same story from him, I even tried to say she said there was more, he corrected me with the truth.

Her excuse was she was able to keep everything separate until the sex. She doesn't drink much, she hasn't said this but there is a good chance she just got horny from the making out and was too drunk to stop. I did ask some tough questions, how could you face our kid after what you were doing? etc.

She did sent him an email (which I have) 2 months after the making out asking what he wanted, etc? He never responded until the 'let's make out.'

I mentioned her parents are huge problems, 3 weeks before her birthday, her mom came down, first time seeing her in 2.5 years. Her life was a mess, afraid for her life. When she left, wife let me know she's never been happier and glad we got through all our problems. Her mom did have an affair on my wife's dad 30 years ago.

I am waiting to leave as I am not 100% ready to give up on the marriage. Maybe only 90%, so what's a few more months? I do think IF I leave, dumping her on her birthday will replace most of my memories of her cheating on her birthday. 

I was an emotional mess for alot of the last 9 months but I am doing better for the last 2, at affairsurvival.com, I just found it tonight, it lists 5 points to staying until the hurt is done. 

We've been to counselling, I like the naturopathic better. But it comes down to what I want and to the wife, counsellor, etc I simply say 'I don't know what I want.' Until I know, there isn't a reason to leave... our marriage is on life support.

She is very remorseful, I've heard her crying in her bathroom when she thought I was asleep, she is a mess too. I believe it but I am fairly cold to her emotions.

Because of her parents, she is very needy. (one of several reasons why I think they are POS) So she probably did just want attention. I can PM the letter as I probably shouldn't put it online.

More later, thanks for the responses!!


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## TheFlood117

@footballguy, 

Cheaters always say it was "just a kiss" this phrase is almost universal, especially for cheating wives. They've probably, in all likelihood, had sex and are still having sex, probably lots of it. 

My advice is pretty universal for betrayed men:

File for Divorce
Hard Expsore to everyone- friends, HR department, family and so on. 
Kick WW out of the house. 
Totally disconnect, only communicate through email and only about child. 

That should just about do it really.

Be decisive. Luck favors the prepared, go see an attorney. Now. 

Sorry you are here. Good luck. Stay strong, eat well, lift and workout, focus on child. Keep venting and posting here. But above all take the advice.


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## illwill

She is lying. Always more going on than first revealed. The way you feel is how most men feel after being cheated on. For most of the men i know it is ultimately a deal breaker.

Maybe it is for you, but since you are already reconciling you better get the full story, either way.


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## footballguy89

Responded but post didn't appear yet.

They day after it happened she was a sobbing mess, but blamed her mom's life on why she was crying.

I might be able to love her in the future, don't know, so just going at a snail pace now. It is killing her that I don't say love her, it's been 6 months since I last said it. She thought I was lying, so she got me to look her in the eyes and say it, I said it then did the blank stare. Most of the time I just shrug my shoulders and say 'not much I can do.'

When I call her from work, I usually just ask about the kid. Not sure if the 180 rules can be implemented if you are still living together.

There are about 60 people on her shift at work, so they are more in the same building but not interacting, plus I've seen the texts, lots of her coworker friends know what happened, so they are watching.


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## footballguy89

I wrote a long post but it said a mod has to approve it, so I'll leave now and hopefully tomorrow my post will be up...but could get juicy with a PM for those serious folks that can help.

In advance, I'll ask is there any way to PM 10+ people and have an offline discussion? I don't want to put a letter from wife to POS out for everyone to see.


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## illwill

She sounds extremly selfish. And you are in limbo. A very dangerous place for a betrayed spouse. This place is like a graveyard for them. Check the backlogs.

Some here will tell you to take your time and decide. It seems to me the ones who survive this best are decisive. Whether they reconcile or divorce.

Its been awhile already. Be careful time slips away silently.


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## adriana

I am rather reluctant to believe you have the whole story. There is likely more to it than she told you. If I were you I would file for a divorce and get it over with. Apparently, she didn't love you enough not to cheat on you so why you would be willing to go through all this suffering? Sooner or later you will find someone who will treat you with more love and respect. 

You don't have to settle for a life with a cheating wife just like I didn't settle for a life with a cheating husband.


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## manticore

OP I agree with many posters here that probably were more than just one encounter

let me tell you some comments about your posts, it may sound harsh and negative but take in consideration that this comments are on base of what many other users have experimented here before, of course in the end is just an opinion but I make it comparing what many other users here have experimented in their own situations.




footballguy89 said:


> She was remorseful when she told me then, thought she doesn't deserve me


there is a diference between guilt and remorse, guilt is provoked for the consequences she face for her affair while remorse is for the pain she caused you for betrying you, you have to diferienciate one from the other.




footballguy89 said:


> She still works with the guy but they don't see each other every day... big place.


this is unnaceptable, really remorseful spouses understand for themselves that keeping contact of any class with their affair partner hurts and cause triggers to their BS, other remorseful WS in similar situations had offer by themselves to quick their JOB and look for a new one on their own (like roookie's wife, a user whose wife also cheated with a coworker).

so this behaviour can be interpreted in many negtive ways, like your wife don't wanting to cut contact with OM (remember that after all it was him who ended the affair so maybe she is still emotionally engaged to him).



footballguy89 said:


> Gave me passwords and let's me check her cell. Obviously everything is deleted. Would like to recover messages and/or set it up so every message gets sent to me.


of course this is suspicious, why did she deleted all the texts if the intetions was to show transparency, this could be interpreted as she hiding much more than that only night that she confessed, after all remember that she had not deleted the messages the first time you catched it by luck, which means that she intetionally did it after the affair was disclosed.




footballguy89 said:


> She left out the making out part, her story was her kissed her, lots of texting, then slept together 3 days after her birthday. 8 months after the kiss.


this does not make sense, if he was the agressor and saw a positive response from her (as we know she keep being friendly and texting with him) why would he stop and make his next move 8 months later, lets be honest if he is a POS that does not care about marital status and see a positive response from the woman he chaising, he has no reason to stop, this leads to the cloclusion that he did not stoped, so there is a real posibility that this was afull blown affair at least for those 8 months.




footballguy89 said:


> I did call the guy 1.5 months after I found out. The wife did leave out a few things... worst one was she said there was no oral sex, yet when I asked him who did the oral sex first he said he did, she didn't but said it was only for a few seconds. Wife also did mention she didn't orgasim (like that makes it better).


we always advice to not believe the Little that the WS and OM/OW confess, there have been many cases were the WS warns the OM/OW and let him/her know before hand what she/he had reveled so in that way their stories can match.




footballguy89 said:


> They day after it happened she was a sobbing mess, but blamed her mom's life on why she was crying.


this may sound harsh but belive me it has happened many times before so is a possibility, you wife could have been crying because her affair partner ended the affair nor becuase she was remorsefulo of her actions, after all if what she did is what was causing the crying and the pain why did she not suffered when she kissed him or when they fooled araound months before this confession, after all of those actions are also physical betrayal to her vows and to you so why cry just after this action, is posible that she was emotionally engaged to him and that day he ended the affair and stop talking to her and she was grieving the affair, not the fact that she betrayed you.
(as it happened to chris989 whose wife also confessed after her affair partner ended the affair and she was sad and devastated, by the way at the beginning she also just confessed the less damaging and later he founf that it was a full blown affair of almost a year and not just a EA as she confessed)




footballguy89 said:


> I might be able to love her in the future, don't know, so just going at a snail pace now.


Before you compromise to try reconcilation is necessary to found if everything she has told you is the truth and more important if she is not still emotionally engaged to him, it does not matter what she said, what matter are her actions, and the fact that she is still working in the same place where her affair partner is, is not a good sign.

my advice keep digging it sounds that your wife just wants to rug sweep the whole thing

also I advice you to read this thread to understand terminology and how real remorse is supposed to be:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

first and second page are very important for betrayed spouses


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## manticore

FBG89 I also wanted to share a method that I have seen really effective when trying to find if there is actually more details of what she is revealing , I had posted it in other Threads:

the more easy way to find the truth is with a polygraph test, most of the times the truth is revealed before the test, cheaters almost always crack and confess while going where the test is going to be executed.

before actually arrenging the test, you can throw a bluff and tell her you already have appointed a polygraph test, ask her if she had nothing to confess beside what she already told you because once the test have been taken you will not give second chances.

If she also confess something like:

well we also did sexting.
well we fooled around more than once.
well we also had oral in other occasion.
well it was just twice.

then tell her, "okey I will still keep on the appointment but now I will ask also if it was really just: sexting besides the one time, oral besides the one time, just two encounters"

and keep doing it until she confess the whole truth.

remember cheaters will normally confess first the less damaging of their actions, and in much less quantity than the real number


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## LostWifeCrushed

thummper said:


> There are wonderful people on here who can give you tons of good advice, but since you have come right out and said you don't love her anymore, why bother. Make sure your little one is taken care of and then bail out. Let her know, hey, there are plenty of backseats you haven't tried out yet, better get started. Take care of yourself.


Oh this is harsh, but something I wish I had the hutz=pah to say!!


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## LostWifeCrushed

illwill said:


> She sounds extremly selfish. And you are in limbo. A very dangerous place for a betrayed spouse. This place is like a graveyard for them. Check the backlogs.
> 
> Some here will tell you to take your time and decide. It seems to me the ones who survive this best are decisive. Whether they reconcile or divorce.
> 
> Its been awhile already. Be careful time slips away silently.


Wow this should be a sticky..... great, well written advice.


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## JCD

Why the hell is she still working there? 

Why is she still allowed to work on the other side of the clock as you? 

Who cares if she has 'coworkers' watching her now? Didn't she have coworkers 'watching' her then at the party as she flirted like crazy? As she was texting her 'friend' about a coworker liking her?

She doesn't need a cell phone to keep in touch with him. She just needs to sashay her little behind to wherever POS is and just tell him whatever she wants. This is why NC means NO CONTACT!

Divorce is very extreme and I seldom suggest it. The mom sort of makes me wonder how much effort to put in here. Mom treats you with contempt, wife treats you with contempt. Coincidence? I think not.

Is she still 'going out with her friends'? I hope you aren't that stupid.

I believe the timeline to a certain extent. It seems to most BS think that cheaters just immediately shut off all moral sense and drop their panties. However, that doesn't take into account the web of rationalizations that need to be woven to JUSTIFY dropping panties, at least in the mind of the cheater.

So...she made out...and she felt guilty. So she pulled back for a bunch of months.

It's plausible. You don't need to borrow more trouble. Whether it was one time or fifty, she's a cheater just the same and she doesn't seem to want to leave. Is there a specific number of coitus sessions which makes her untouchable?

Figure it out because she might be honestly giving a try, but if she is given NO hope, she'll stop...and generally it happens about the same time as you figure out that YOU want to give it a try.

So dump her or try. Don't dither.


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## Singledude21

And her still working with the guy might be a problem. She says its a big place, but that contact is always possible. The affair might have never even stopped.

I'm with everyone else, I'd file the D.


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## jnj express

1st if you are going to D her, or are thinking of D'ing her---make sure she keeps her job----you don't wanna have to pay unnecessary alimony

If you decide to split from her, make sure you do not leave the marital home, while the D is in progress---you would get nailed for abandonment

Did she ever tell you WHY---she wrecked everyone's life, and for no good reason-------she probably got played, but she is a grown woman, who knows she has a child, who depends on her having some common sense, and maturity---yet she throws it all down the drain

Your future and what you do, in re:the future---- depends on how much misery you want to put up with---no matter what she does in re:R---she can't keep your sub--conscious from working overtime---she can't bring back your peace of mind/carefree attitude/trust---those are gone, at best for a long time, at worst for as long as you stay with her

She decided to step out of the circle of mge, of her own free will---she willingly/gladly/did what she did----a married woman with a child---DOES NOT GO RUNNING AROUND LATE AT NIGHT WITH CO-WORKERS---she comes HOME---she knows full well she has a H and child waiting for her at home---SHE HAS NO F'ing REASON TO BE OUT WITH CO-WORKERS DRINKING AND CAROUSING

You do what you must---but IMHO----D is the best option for you---I do not think you will get over this, as long as she is there in front of you day after day---and she is flawed, so what is to keep her from doing this again---either with the same guy, or another guy------when she reasons to herself, she is unhappy with you---or whatever it was that gave her the need to carouse, and have sex


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## warlock07

She got dumped after he had sex with her ?

And she confesses to you after this ?


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## JCD

jnj express said:


> Did she ever tell you WHY---she wrecked everyone's life, and for no good reason-------she probably got played, but she is a grown woman, who knows she has a child, who depends on her having some common sense, and maturity---yet she throws it all down the drain
> 
> snip
> 
> She decided to step out of the circle of mge, of her own free will---she willingly/gladly/did what she did----a married woman with a child---DOES NOT GO RUNNING AROUND LATE AT NIGHT WITH CO-WORKERS---she comes HOME---she knows full well she has a H and child waiting for her at home---SHE HAS NO F'ing REASON TO BE OUT WITH CO-WORKERS DRINKING AND CAROUSING


Slow down a touch. You are burning a little hot, with more heat than light.

I think if you asked the married MEN here if they ever had a night with the buds or the co-workers where adult beverages were accessible, MOST if not all would say that, yes, they had done such a thing...and most would be confused that you would make a big deal of it...if it is a MAN. And most of them probably had kids too.

So there is a trace of double standard here. Perhaps not with you particularly, but with society.

And to the first point: I have made some incredibly stupid choices in my life. Luckily, I was able to zig instead of zag right into that Semi of Karma, or someone gave me Grace, which is undeserved forgiveness.

I could, as a father, make a choice either driving or playing with the kids which could kill or cripple my kids with the best of intentions. So, yeah, she made some stupid choices.

Expressing such horror at how SHE could have made such a stupid blunder is a bit histrionic.

To wit: say a dad puts up a trampoline for his kids. He puts it next to a fence like this one.










One bad jump by a kid and you have a skewered kid. Maybe dead.

Is Dad responsible? Sure. Is this a horrible hurtful situation? Yes. Does Dad feel bad about his stupidity? How could he not?

So...why not her as well? She's done something less bad than killing someone, even accidentally. And I imagine she feels pretty rotten too (obviously not rotten enough to quit her job...sorry...arguing both sides here)

Sometimes good people do bad things. It's life.


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## illwill

JCD said:


> Why the hell is she still working there?
> 
> Why is she still allowed to work on the other side of the clock as you?
> 
> Who cares if she has 'coworkers' watching her now? Didn't she have coworkers 'watching' her then at the party as she flirted like crazy? As she was texting her 'friend' about a coworker liking her?
> 
> She doesn't need a cell phone to keep in touch with him. She just needs to sashay her little behind to wherever POS is and just tell him whatever she wants. This is why NC means NO CONTACT!
> 
> Divorce is very extreme and I seldom suggest it. The mom sort of makes me wonder how much effort to put in here. Mom treats you with contempt, wife treats you with contempt. Coincidence? I think not.
> 
> Is she still 'going out with her friends'? I hope you aren't that stupid.
> 
> I believe the timeline to a certain extent. It seems to most BS think that cheaters just immediately shut off all moral sense and drop their panties. However, that doesn't take into account the web of rationalizations that need to be woven to JUSTIFY dropping panties, at least in the mind of the cheater.
> 
> So...she made out...and she felt guilty. So she pulled back for a bunch of months.
> 
> It's plausible. You don't need to borrow more trouble. Whether it was one time or fifty, she's a cheater just the same and she doesn't seem to want to leave. Is there a specific number of coitus sessions which makes her untouchable?
> 
> Figure it out because she might be honestly giving a try, but if she is given NO hope, she'll stop...and generally it happens about the same time as you figure out that YOU want to give it a try.
> 
> So dump her or try. Domn't dither.


A truly remorseful wayward would
keep trying even is there is no hope.


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## workindad

They still work together and did for the time period gaps in her story as well. You don't have all of the truth yet. 

Ask her about a polygraph and see what she says.


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## Dyokemm

On TAM we have all read about and are familiar with the infamous 'I love you but am not in love with you' speech from the WS.

I think there is another catchphrase for the BS post D-Day that can apply in cases like the OP's.

It should be titled, 'I love you but don't like you anymore.'

Footballguy,

I would say you are in this situation. 

It is a form of limbo.

Eventually you will know whether you can get through this and still be with her.

Take your time until you know what you want and need.


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## russell28

footballguy89 said:


> Sorry left out some details...
> 
> Married for 7 years when this started. Son is 100% mine.
> 
> She was remorseful when she told me then, thought she doesn't deserve me, etc. Got more remorseful as I kept getting worse.
> 
> She still works with the guy but they don't see each other every day... big place.
> 
> Gave me passwords and let's me check her cell. Obviously everything is deleted. Would like to recover messages and/or set it up so every message gets sent to me.
> 
> No STD check yet, might tell her to get one.
> 
> She left out the making out part, her story was her kissed her, lots of texting, then slept together 3 days after her birthday. 8 months after the kiss.
> 
> After getting busted for leaving out details, she has been honest. I did call the guy 1.5 months after I found out. The wife did leave out a few things... worst one was she said there was no oral sex, yet when I asked him who did the oral sex first he said he did, she didn't but said it was only for a few seconds. Wife also did mention she didn't orgasim (like that makes it better).


She lies, he lies, stop asking them about it.. Just leave her already, wrap the divorce papers in birthday paper and give her a scratch ticket with them, tell her you hope she gets lucky so you'll be able to pay less on the alimony.

If you want to R, the first place to start would be for her to leave that job.. where she probably sees him every day, stops at his place in the mornings and after work and on lunch break... yea, they just kissed and then that one time when she didn't really like it... Didn't orgasm, oh, that's so much better.. thank god, so it's kind of like she didn't even cheat. Pathetic..


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Sorry you are here, very sad story.

As others have stated, make sure you get tested for STDs.

Did she write a NC letter, let you read it and you mail it?

Did she write a Time Line for you for you to check? Gives you the basis to know when a lie does occur.

She needs to find a new job.

No more GNO or Birthday parties that she goes to.

If you cannot ever see yourself loving your wife again, you needs to start the divorce process. Not a good way to live your life if every day you get up and see the person who destroyed all your trust and there is no way to fix it.


----------



## harrybrown

So she did great things for the POSOM. 

What has she done for you? She still works with OM and has not gotten another job. 

She is still lying to you. She has not given you a written timeline of the affair. She has not given you the complete truth. No std test. She has not signed an agreement that you will not pay her alimony if you divorce. 

If you had an affair, would she be fine with you working with the OW?

Give her the gift of freedom. File for divorce now.


----------



## theroad

footballguy89 said:


> I won't get into the long story yet but just want to get some thoughts...
> 
> Found wife's text to a girlfriend of hers that someone at work might like her. .. (read a text while using her phone to text my brother.. in emergency). Didn't say anything as we were on our way to vacation at our honeymoon spot with our little son and then see her dad. First vacation in 15 months, didn't want to ruin it. Wanted to also see if she would say anything. 3 months later, caught her telling her mom via phone (mom hates me, has causes too many problems in our marriage... more on that later.)
> 
> We go to marriage counselling. The guy did kiss her on my birthday when I was out of town. 2 weeks later on our anniversary, after supper she wanted to go to a co-workers birthday party... thought that was a little low... since I knew something could be up I played about how had a bad feeling. She said nothing was going on. 2 weeks later, was the phone call to her mom.
> 
> So 2 weeks later we start marriage counselling. I let her know upfront about how much I trust her, given our work schedules are opposite. She assures me she'd never sleep with anybody else. She also buys a couples devotional book. We read it for 10 days, then we were on our own for 7 days... she stopped reading it. Didn't say much. 1.5 months later, she goes to another birthday party... mentions how she was the designated driver, also that she gave POS a ride home last, as he lives out of town. I lay in hard, she says nothing happened. I say if I were him, I would have tried something. Later find out they fooled around that night.
> 
> Then 4 months later, she goes out with coworkers to celebrate her birthday 3 days afterwards. (given she works until 11:30 pm and I have to be out of the house by 6 am, it is not unusual for her to go out without me). Anyways, drinks a lot, on the drive home she gets a text from him asking if she wants to make out? She meets him in a parking lot and they end up having sex. (only time). HE wouldn't talk to her after. Tells me 2 months later. Life was ****ty for a long time. Not easy to leave as we have a 4 year old kid and know one else to help. We did talk about splitting up, we were okay with it. I knew I wasn't going to chase her if she left. Came home a few days later and she is a bawling mess. So I say don't leave.
> 
> Took about 3 months to realize I don't love her anymore, have no respect for her, etc. It's been 6 months since I last said I love you. We kind out agreed to give it a year. She's been trying, I haven't put in much effort.
> 
> We are now 9 months out, birthday is in 3 months. Thanks to a naturopathic I feel pretty good. Still feel liked she ruined our marriage and there is little chance of recovery.
> 
> Anybody have any advice... I'd been doing some 'protective things' incase we split but wondering if her birthday will be too big of a reminder. Debating myself if I should wait for her birthday, then let her know since she slept with someone on her birthday a year ago, I need to make a new memory, so I want a divorce.


You will not recover unless you know the steps to recovery.

Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley if you and your WW want to learn how to recover.

It takes more then a WW to stop banging her OM to recover.


----------



## theroad

footballguy89 said:


> Sorry left out some details...
> 
> Married for 7 years when this started. Son is 100% mine.
> 
> She was remorseful when she told me then, thought she doesn't deserve me, etc. Got more remorseful as I kept getting worse.
> 
> She still works with the guy but they don't see each other every day... big place.
> 
> Gave me passwords and let's me check her cell. Obviously everything is deleted. Would like to recover messages and/or set it up so every message gets sent to me.
> 
> No STD check yet, might tell her to get one.
> 
> She left out the making out part, her story was her kissed her, lots of texting, then slept together 3 days after her birthday. 8 months after the kiss.
> 
> After getting busted for leaving out details, she has been honest. I did call the guy 1.5 months after I found out. The wife did leave out a few things... worst one was she said there was no oral sex, yet when I asked him who did the oral sex first he said he did, she didn't but said it was only for a few seconds. Wife also did mention she didn't orgasim (like that makes it better).


See you know nothing about No contact/NC, trickle truth, exposing the affair.

Your WW must have NC with the OM. She has to leave that job.

WW always trickle truth. The lie to do damage control. First no oral, then now only a few seconds.

She say's no orgasm now. Tomorrow?

The OMW must be told.

Get that book.


----------



## F-102

It doesn't sound like she's sorry and remorseful that she hurt you.

It does sound like she's sorry and remorseful that things didn't work out the way she wanted.


----------



## JCD

F-102 said:


> It doesn't sound like she's sorry and remorseful that she hurt you.
> 
> It does sound like she's sorry and remorseful that things didn't work out the way she wanted.


I don't think it's an either or question. I can see her being both.

Now...is she sorry that she hurt him...because it made her feel guilty? Or is she sorry she hurt him because she can feel a piece of his pain?

There is no way to know that.

And I respectfully disagree with you on one point. If she were 'faking' her remorse, I'm guessing she'd have quit trying to fix things a lot sooner than 9 months AND COUNTING.

Maybe she's playing LONG game. Or...

Her motives are just as complex as his are most likely.

Communication will help him make choices HE is comfortable with. My only warning is that whatever choice he makes, he will regret it: reconciling or leaving. That is the way of most choices.


----------



## Acabado

footballguy89 said:


> Took about 3 months to realize I don't love her anymore, have no respect for her, etc.


That's all.


----------



## Thorburn

As was said before you got the tip of the iceberg.

We only kissed - is cheater code for we had sex. I suspect they had sex more then once.

You have a toxic MIL. I wish mine was still alive. Prior to her death my wife was fooling around and I think her mother knew it. She mentioned to my SIL to keep an eye on my wife. Unforntunately my MIL was in no condition to intervene like she did in the past. She would have never tolerated this behavior from her daughter.

You wrote: * " 1.5 months later, she goes to another birthday party... mentions how she was the designated driver, also that she gave POS a ride home last, as he lives out of town. I lay in hard, she says nothing happened. I say if I were him, I would have tried something. Later find out they fooled around that night."* How about rephrasing this to say, "If I was my wife I would have tried something". I will say with almost 100% certainty they had sex again that night.

And she is still working with this guy? I can't imagine under these circumstances that it ended.

Expose it.


----------



## lordmayhem

Its obvious there's Trickle Truth going on here. It was way more than her birthday. Is the OM married or has a girlfriend? If so, expose the affair to the OMW/OMGF.

I don't care if they work in different departments, its still the same company. She MUST quit and go to another job. This is non negotiable. 

Do you have her pay stubs? Do you know if any unaccounted for sick hours/vacation hours? She can easily pretend to go to work, only to spend the day with this OM. I've seen this in the real world. 

No. More. GNOs. Ever. Not ever without you. Install a keylogger on the computers and get a VAR and install it in the vehicle. She can easily get a burner phone. This is why you get a VAR. 

What kind of phone?


----------



## Acabado

What do people here insit on digging the full extent of the affair, exposure.. the yards? What's the goal? He's done, he was 3 month into "R", likely he was done just after DDay only he didnt know back then and still that reality had to be articulated in his head.
That's why he didn't dig deeper, that's why he didn't enforce stronger boundaires, that's why he basicaly implemented a "natural" 180 (only asking about the kids, refusing ILYs, affection, etc) and admits he just has been coasting since instead of really working towards R.

WW confessed on her own, seems commited since then, likely would agree to quit the job if OP requested it or any other demand... she's in disbelief love is gone and probably desperate to fix it... yet it takes two.

It was a dealbreaker from the minute one. Now it's time to pull the trigger. I don't see even anger about the betrayal itself but about the need to start the owful process of D. I see sadness.

I'm sorry man, sometimes love is killed in the act.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Acabado said:


> What do people here insit on digging the full extent of the affair, exposure.. the yards? What's the goal? He's done, he was 3 month into "R", likely he was done just after DDay only he didnt know back then and still that reality had to be articulated in his head.
> That's why he didn't dig deeper, that's why he didn't enforce stronger boundaires, that's why he basicaly implemented a "natural" 180 (only asking about the kids, refusing ILYs, affection, etc) and admits he just has been coasting since instead of really working towards R.
> 
> WW confessed on her own, seems commited since then, likely would agree to quit the job if OP requested it or any other demand... she's in disbelief love is gone and probably desperate to fix it... yet it takes two.
> 
> It was a dealbreaker from the minute one. Now it's time to pull the trigger. I don't see even anger about the betrayal itself but about the need to start the owful process of D. I see sadness.
> 
> I'm sorry man, sometimes love is killed in the act.


I have to agree with this assessment.


----------



## manticore

Acabado said:


> What do people here insit on digging the full extent of the affair, exposure.. the yards? What's the goal? He's done, he was 3 month into "R", likely he was done just after DDay only he didnt know back then and still that reality had to be articulated in his head.
> 
> 
> It was a dealbreaker from the minute one. Now it's time to pull the trigger. I don't see even anger about the betrayal itself but about the need to start the owful process of D. I see sadness.
> 
> I'm sorry man, sometimes love is killed in the act.



I pretty much agree with everything you wrote, but the total sincerity of his wife, that is why I wrote in my first post something like this:



manticore said:


> there is nothing wrong with this, what you are feeling in normal, some people just can't overcome betrayal......
> 
> if in fact you feel that you will never be able to overcome her betrayal and you don't love her anymore, then leaving is the more healthy option, not just for you but also for her and your kid, trying to maintain a marriage where from now on will be resenment and mistrust is hopeless.
> 
> but don't be mistaken, is not your fault to feel like that, were the selfish actions of your wife which lead to this outcome.....


but then, the OP wrote this:



footballguy89 said:


> They day after it happened she was a sobbing mess, but blamed her mom's life on why she was crying.
> 
> I might be able to love her in the future, don't know, so just going at a snail pace now.


which means he is still is considering the possibility of R.

so if he is going to give it another shot he should do it aware of the real circumstances, that is why I wrote that gigantic post in the second page of the thread, with the many irregularities that her wife's story have and also posted the "almostrecovered" thread with the ideal conditions for R (avoiding fake R)

that is why people is now focusing in the wife's story gaps


----------



## WyshIknew

footballguy89 said:


> I wrote a long post but it said a mod has to approve it, so I'll leave now and hopefully tomorrow my post will be up...but could get juicy with a PM for those serious folks that can help.
> 
> In advance, I'll ask is there any way to PM 10+ people and have an offline discussion? I don't want to put a letter from wife to POS out for everyone to see.


You could pay to be a forum supporter which apparently allows you to PM more than one person.

Alternatively ask for the thread to be moved to the private section which hides it from public view.


----------



## badmemory

Catching up on this thread and I agree with much of the advice. I'll summarize my 2 cents.

If you want to consider continued R:

1- She *must* quit her job. If not immediately within a short deadline.

2- She must write a no contact letter to POSOM that you approve first.

3- If you haven't exposed POSOM to his wife or SO, do it now. Don't tell your wife you're doing it, just do it. If she accepts the possible fall out from this, she's demonstrating remorse.

4 - She agrees to no more GNO's, complete transparency and accountability for her time.

5 - Tell your wife that one of the main things effecting your ability to R, is that you doubt she's been completely truthful. You have to know fully, what you're trying to forgive. If you've exhausted all other methods of finding out, "ask" her if she'd be willing to take a poly. Just ask about her "willingness" at this point. If she refuses, you have to assume there is more to the story. If she accepts - that's a further demonstration of her remorse. Then, you can make your decision on whether to commit her to a poly after doing your own research. Just the threat of one however, may elicit a further confession. But if you decide to schedule it, don't cancel it - even if she does confess further. 

6 - Stop living in limbo. If and only if, she agrees to all the above; you have a good starting point to continue R. And if you do, don't half @ss it. You have to do your part on working on the marriage.

7 - If she refuses to do any one of the above, implement the 180 to detach. Talk to an attorney and start working your exit plan.


----------



## illwill

JCD said:


> I don't think it's an either or question. I can see her being both.
> 
> Now...is she sorry that she hurt him...because it made her feel guilty? Or is she sorry she hurt him because she can feel a piece of his pain?
> 
> There is no way to know that.
> 
> And I respectfully disagree with you on one point. If she were 'faking' her remorse, I'm guessing she'd have quit trying to fix things a lot sooner than 9 months AND COUNTING.
> 
> Maybe she's playing LONG game. Or...
> 
> Her motives are just as complex as his are most likely.
> 
> Communication will help him make choices HE is comfortable with. My only warning is that whatever choice he makes, he will regret it: reconciling or leaving. That is the way of most choices.


Why would he regret either decision? Because i never met anyone who truly regrets divorcing a cheater. However, i know many that regret staying.


----------



## footballguy89

He is a single guy, lives at home with his parents (28, my wife is 32 and I'm 38)

I posted a response that didn't make it up... here is a letter that she wrote him 2 months after making out. I'll post their last contact in the next post. My wife doesn't know how to delete facebook or hotmail messages.

January 29, 2013

Hey POS,

I'm sitting here feeling like an idiot and I know that if I don't just lay it all out there I'll continue to feel stupid and completely insecure. I would have much rather spoken to you in person, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be an option, so here it goes. 
Before everything got super confusing for me I had so much fun with you. I always had a bit of a crush but honestly didn't think anything would ever happen, so I was able to be carefree and flirty and it was so easy and awesome. Being friends with you was great and I enjoyed hanging out with you. During this period, my happiness at home was steadily declining, and I really liked the attention that you gave me and took advantage of that. Then at a very very low part in my marriage, you kissed me...and for the first time in a long time I really did not know what I wanted anymore. Talking to you in your explorer in the wal-mart parking lot has been the only time we have ever really talked about it, and since then, so much has happened. Now I'm left feeling more confused then ever and terrified that I had just been played for the last 6 months. I always thought I was good at reading people, and in the beginning I really do believe you liked me, but now I have no idea. I think the situation just got too big for us to handle. I blame myself for it getting too messy, and I apologize for that. It should have ended in that parking lot.
To be honest, I have always been a flirt, but I have never cheated on anything or anyone in my life. However, somehow I was able to convince myself that the was a valid reason for my actions and was able to somehow justify them to myself. That is probably why I continued on with the text messaging. You made me feel so sexy and wanted and I became a little addicted to it. Then you stopped all contact between us for two months and I was left feeling crushed. Then I drove you home...
I told you I had spent the last two months trying to get over you to which you replied "why do you have to get over me?". Well, the answer was that you really had left me with no choice. I'm pretty sure that it was drunken "Dirty POS" who made an appearance when we made out and that any feelings you may have ever had for me were already long gone. However, I think I was clinging to the hope that maybe you and I could rebuild what we had lost. If our connection was purely a sexual one, then so be it, because I honestly did miss you and wanted you back in my life (but mostly the you before everything had happened)...*enter stupid girl me who makes ****ty life decisions and tries to solve problems the most ridiculous way ever*... Morally, every decision I have made since we made out has been really wrong, but I was so turned on and it was so hot that I kind of got a little lost. I used seduction to try to get you back into my life, instead of just trying to be friends again. What has been especially difficult for me is our relationship since we made out. You barely even look at me or talk to me in public, but then you want to text. You tell me you want me, then turn me down. The fact that you turn me down when we have an opportunity to make out makes me question why you want to send dirty texts. That alone makes me paranoid that you only sext me to get pics so that you can show them to your buddies and laugh about how stupid I am behind my back. (Deep down I don't think you're that guy, but I have nothing to go on that you even give a **** about me). The reason why I really feel confused is the fact that you turned me down when you have nothing to lose in the situation. It makes me question if you meant anything that you had ever said to me. Were your texts and all the things you had spoken to me a lie? Are you even attracted to me, or was the texting just an easy way to get off, so you didn't want to turn it down? I really don't know what to think about anything anymore and I do feel so embarrassed that I allowed myself to feel so foolish. I apologize for getting all "girl" on you, but I just need some clarity. I just ask that if you do choose to respond, be brutally honest. I can handle even the most harsh truth, for me it's better than trying to figure everything out in my head. I am kind of hoping that your situation is that you simply wanted to **** me but felt guilty because I am married. However, if that is the case, why wouldn't you have just said that and stopped everything from happening, and why did you kiss me again (especially since I wasn't even trying to be in your life at that point)? I know that it's difficult to say no when a girl is throwing themselves at you, but you could have said no to everything if you wanted to. Perhaps it was just a case of Dirty POS trying to get laid but let his morals stop him before it was too late. 
I also need one more thing from you. I would just like to know where you want to go from here. I will respect whatever decision you make and will let you make the next call. Just please be honest about what you want. Even if you feel like we cannot have any kind of relationship going into the future I will forget everything that has happened between us and move on...I'm just hoping it would not have to go that far. Take all the time you need, and I promise to stay out of your way until you figure it out. 

My Wife


----------



## Clay2013

I think after reading that I would have showed her the door. Nothing more needed to be said. 

Clay


----------



## footballguy89

Forgot to mention I edited names on the last post... here is what my wife sent him when I found the letter... 5 days after she told me about the affair....

She was at work when I got this letter and called her about it... 


Wife....Did you tell My Husband?! Why did you do that?
POS...What are you talking about
Wife...He received an email that I sent you and pics
POS.........I did nothing of the sorts.
Wife...then how did this happen? my life is over
POS...I don't know anything. Who sent the email
Wife...he said it was from *******. that's it
it said your wife is cheating on you, here is an email your wife sent to POS
and it was the email i sent you in january unless you gave me a false email address
and i sent it to someone else
POS...I have no idea about any of this
Wife...when i texted you for your email address...what the **** is going on?
my life is seriously over what is your email address?
POS...Why do you want my email What do you have as it
Wife... ****@hotmail.com the one you texted me what the ****?!? i mean it's my own ****ing fault, but i seriously want to die right now
POS...I don't know what is going on. Why don't you just text me also
Wife...because i am seriously freaking out. my life is over and i ruined my whole ****ing life.
plus i deleted your number after we had sex, so i can't text you
POS...Well I have no idea what is happening
Wife...is that your email address?
POS...Yes
Wife...then how did this happen?
POS...I don't know why your freaking out. Nothing happened
Wife...my husband was sent an email that i sent to you which said everything. he knows, we're done. i have evry reason to freak out
i just lost my family just like that and i have no one to blame but myself

Funny thing is she already admitted to the affair so this letter wasn't much more. Shows that they didn't have sex before the letter though, plus he never responded to the letter.


----------



## barbados

So true it should be a TAM sticky :

WE JUST KISSED = THEY HAD SEX !!!


----------



## workindad

Her letter is clear. She wants him, not you.

She has no guilt over her marriage that she is destroying, she's only worried about POSOM and how bad she wants POSOM. You don't matter.

Show her the curb. You can do better. He deserves her and the misery she'll eventually rain down on him if he lets her.


----------



## footballguy89

Here was her response to him when I called her at work to mention the letter. She spoke to him via Facebook...


Wife..Did you tell My husband?! Why did you do that?
POS..What are you talking about
Wife...He received an email that I sent you and pics
POS..I did nothing of the sorts.
Wife...then how did this happen? my life is over
POS...I don't know anything. Who sent the email
Wife...he said it was from ****friend. that's it
it said your wife is cheating on you, here is an email your wife sent to ****
and it was the email i sent you in january unless you gave me a false email address and i sent it to someone else
POS...I have no idea about any of this
Wife...when i texted you for your email address... what the **** is going on?
my life is seriously over what is your email address?
POS...Why do you want my email What do you have as it
[email protected]
the one you texted me what the ****?!?
i mean it's my own ****ing fault, but i seriously want to die right now
POS...I don't know what is going on. Why don't you just text me also
Wife...because i am seriously freaking out. my life is over and i ruined my whole ****ing life.
plus i deleted your number after we had sex, so i can't text you
POS...Well I have no idea what is happening
Wife...is that your email address?
POS...Yes
Wife...then how did this happen?
POS...I don't know why your freaking out. Nothing happened
Wife...my husband was sent an email that i sent to you which said everything. he knows, we're done. i have evry reason to freak out
i just lost my family just like that and i have no one to blame but myself

Not sure why she freaked out, she already admitted to the affair, the letter didn't add too much.


----------



## workindad

barbados said:


> So true it should be a TAM sticky :
> 
> WE JUST KISSED = THEY HAD SEX !!!


So true.

Perhaps a crafty person could create a cheaters translation table.

Stop invading my privacy = I am afraid you'll catch me.


----------



## footballguy89

Trying to post one more exchange,website won't let me.... I'll keep trying.


----------



## footballguy89

Here was her response to him when I called her at work to mention the letter. She spoke to him via Facebook...


Wife..Did you tell My husband?! Why did you do that?
POS..What are you talking about
Wife...He received an email that I sent you and pics
POS..I did nothing of the sorts.
Wife...then how did this happen? my life is over
POS...I don't know anything. Who sent the email
Wife...he said it was from ****friend. that's it
it said your wife is cheating on you, here is an email your wife sent to ****
and it was the email i sent you in january unless you gave me a false email address and i sent it to someone else
POS...I have no idea about any of this
Wife...when i texted you for your email address... what the **** is going on?
my life is seriously over what is your email address?
POS...Why do you want my email What do you have as it
Wife...****@hotmail.com
the one you texted me what the ****?!?
i mean it's my own ****ing fault, but i seriously want to die right now
POS...I don't know what is going on. Why don't you just text me also
Wife...because i am seriously freaking out. my life is over and i ruined my whole ****ing life.
plus i deleted your number after we had sex, so i can't text you
POS...Well I have no idea what is happening
Wife...is that your email address?
POS...Yes
Wife...then how did this happen?
POS...I don't know why your freaking out. Nothing happened
Wife...my husband was sent an email that i sent to you which said everything. he knows, we're done. i have evry reason to freak out
i just lost my family just like that and i have no one to blame but myself

Not sure why she freaked out, she already admitted to the affair, the letter didn't add too much.


----------



## illwill

Ill never understand how you guys reconcile after reading things like that letter.

She was like a school girl.


----------



## illwill

footballguy89 said:


> Here was her response to him when I called her at work to mention the letter. She spoke to him via Facebook...
> 
> 
> Wife..Did you tell My husband?! Why did you do that?
> POS..What are you talking about
> Wife...He received an email that I sent you and pics
> POS..I did nothing of the sorts.
> Wife...then how did this happen? my life is over
> POS...I don't know anything. Who sent the email
> Wife...he said it was from ****friend. that's it
> it said your wife is cheating on you, here is an email your wife sent to ****
> and it was the email i sent you in january unless you gave me a false email address and i sent it to someone else
> POS...I have no idea about any of this
> Wife...when i texted you for your email address... what the **** is going on?
> my life is seriously over what is your email address?
> POS...Why do you want my email What do you have as it
> Wife...****@hotmail.com
> the one you texted me what the ****?!?
> i mean it's my own ****ing fault, but i seriously want to die right now
> POS...I don't know what is going on. Why don't you just text me also
> Wife...because i am seriously freaking out. my life is over and i ruined my whole ****ing life.
> plus i deleted your number after we had sex, so i can't text you
> POS...Well I have no idea what is happening
> Wife...is that your email address?
> POS...Yes
> Wife...then how did this happen?
> POS...I don't know why your freaking out. Nothing happened
> Wife...my husband was sent an email that i sent to you which said everything. he knows, we're done. i have evry reason to freak out
> i just lost my family just like that and i have no one to blame but myself
> 
> Not sure why she freaked out, she already admitted to the affair, the letter didn't add too much.


This is like Dawson's Creek.

She does not love you. That is clear. She loves the idea of having a family, but not you.

Tell me again why you have not divorced her yet.


----------



## LongWalk

Ball Guy,

Usually TAM posters advise that the WS must quit the job. But since she has been outed there, perhaps it is better to keep her on the straight and narrow.

re: privacy
Once you have a few more posts you can request that the mods transfer your thread to Private. But unless your wife is on your computer, I wouldn't worry too much about it. There are 300 million persons in the USA and this site is frequented just a small percentage of them.

re: the future
Your wife's letter is very disturbing to say the least. She was basically saying that if wanted to have sex with her to see if she was a woman worth having a LTR with. The letter reeks of neediness and low self esteem. So, the question you must be asking yourself is how can you fill the empty hole in her heart. Her self image took a heavy blow. She was not attractive enough to make POSOM chase her. Having sex did not seem to raise her sex ranking.

In short, her body and personality were naked, he tried the goods and dumped her.

Was she in love with him? From the letter I would say infatuated but not in love. She was ready to fall in love with him if he rocked her world. No orgasm? Maybe POSOM did not even try very hard to get her off. More humilation for her.

re: Polygraphs
Opinion is divided about these but your wife is so naive that you could probably give her two aspirin, tell her they are powerful but harmless truth pills. She will spill more if you put the threat of D pressure on her. Do you need to know more?

re: Your wife as a person
Your wife needs IC. There is no guarantee that IC will fix her. Nothing you mention suggests severe personality disorder or mental illness, so she might become a better person/better partner. 

Do you consider her a fundamentally decent person?

If she regained some self confidence, do you believe you could find her attractive again?

Are you having sex now?

Did you go through a period so hysterical bonding?

You are now the leader in your relationship. That is a heavy role. To save your marriage she must take a more active role.

Tell her that instead of asking you if you still love her, she should be telling you with warmth and sincerity that she loves you. That you have been good to her both before and after the affair. She should be trying to reestablish a good connection with you even if you are cold. She needs to keep trying.

There is a lot misery in your life. Tell yourself three times a day that you are going to resolve this and come out stronger and healthier. You will deliver the gift of your strength to your child. You will include your wife if you can but you are not obligated.

What do your families say about your current troubles?


----------



## Clay2013

What more do you seriously need? Get away from her even if you have to move. Its over and you are only going to suffer more if you stay. 

Clay


----------



## LongWalk

> Not sure why she freaked out, she already admitted to the affair, the letter didn't add too much.


She emphasized her distress as something fresh because she was testing to see if POSOM would tell her that he loved her. She probably had some small hope he would ride over on his palomino stallion, reach down and lift her up behind him to ride off into the sunset. Oops. Forgot the kid.

In fact, even as she put out this pathetic play on his enormous heart, she knew it was not likely. Hence, life ruined.

If he had said that they needed to meet immediately she probably would have had sex with him again in the mere hope that he would take her more seriously.

Your WW could never have been a spy in the house of love. She is too naive.

She is not going to handle divorce well, so you need to emphasize the need for IC if that is your choice. And if you stay together she needs it.

Does she drink?


----------



## manticore

guys he is already out, as he stated he is just venting and looking for opinions, he already tried R, he realized it was not for him with justified reasons.

he also wrote that one day he may love her again, so maybe he has not discarted R completely in the future but at least right now he is not with her.

OP the more worrisome from my point of view is that she was the agressor at one point, Reading the letter it does not seem that OM is a master manipulator, it looks like was your wife who persued the affair and even tried to convince him to go further.

in summary she had a crush in a coworker, saw that he was attracted enough to go for it and she persued it, as we see in the letter she romanticized her actions, but if we believe the whole letter she had alot of opportunities to back down.


----------



## BetrayedDad

footballguy89 said:


> Took about 3 months to realize I don't love her anymore, have no respect for her, etc. It's been 6 months since I last said I love you. We kind out agreed to give it a year. She's been trying, I haven't put in much effort.


Your story is pretty similar to mine except my exwife did way worse crap and I bet yours did too and you just don't know it yet. In any event, I kept waiting around to see if the love would come back. Everyday that has gone by is just more realization for me that the woman I thought I loved was just a fantasy. A role she was playing. In reality, my exwife is a selfish POS who only cares about herself. End of story. Yours sounds EXACTLY the same so dump her. Don't waste another minute on a woman who threw you under the bus just because she could. She doesn't love you, she just loves the stability you provide. She's broken and mark my words when the heats off in a few years she'll do it again. Maybe with the same guy, maybe with someone else. You're 38 and not getting any younger. Jump ship and salvage your life while you still can.


----------



## ThePheonix

footballguy89 said:


> it is not unusual for her to go out without me)


I read these about GNO, married chicks going out without their husband etc. More than a quarter of century ago, back when I was on the prowl, a group of 8 married girls for the school district where I did governmental financial system consulting, used to do regular GNO on Weds. I was invited to meet one of them who was separated. I ended up bedding 3 and almost nailed the fourth. This is a caveat guys. A chick not wanting to meet other guys are not going to put themselves in a position where meeting other guys is the norm. Go along with it at your own peril.


----------



## footballguy89

My wife doesn't drink much, a glass of wine every few months, she obviously hit the booze hard during the affair.

She has told some of her friends, didn't tell her family. I told my brother, (him and his wife cheat on each other... he thinks I should stay). My parents and sister get along great with her, so I haven't told them, of course I will if we separate.

The post that hasn't been put up yet mentioned a little about my MIL... she is a psycho. Messed up our marriage lots, especially the summer the affair heated up, then came and saw my wife less than a month before my wife cheated.

Wife's family are POS'. Her real dad has only come to see us 1 weekend in our 8 years of marriage. We've made 2 week long trips to see him. MIL is manipulative, married a drinker, he has stopped but she still has issues. Made it clear they have no intentions of coming to see us but we are still expected to go see them. I'll divorce my wife before I waste my time on them.

We also had 3 miscarriages after our first child. Wife says she lost herself.

Before the affair, when we go see counsellors wife and I agree sex is great in the marriage. So not 100% sold that she needed the sex with him, just liked the attention and made out a second time when they were drunk. Obviously sex now is when I want it unless she cries that we haven't had sex in a month, then I might feel bad for her. Last few times I thought of other girls to make it more enjoyable. Also, I might fall asleep and then wake up an hour later horny and then try to get some.


----------



## sidney2718

Acabado said:


> What do people here insit on digging the full extent of the affair, exposure.. the yards? What's the goal? He's done, he was 3 month into "R", likely he was done just after DDay only he didnt know back then and still that reality had to be articulated in his head.
> That's why he didn't dig deeper, that's why he didn't enforce stronger boundaires, that's why he basicaly implemented a "natural" 180 (only asking about the kids, refusing ILYs, affection, etc) and admits he just has been coasting since instead of really working towards R.
> 
> WW confessed on her own, seems commited since then, likely would agree to quit the job if OP requested it or any other demand... she's in disbelief love is gone and probably desperate to fix it... yet it takes two.
> 
> It was a dealbreaker from the minute one. Now it's time to pull the trigger. I don't see even anger about the betrayal itself but about the need to start the owful process of D. I see sadness.
> 
> I'm sorry man, sometimes love is killed in the act.


Good points! Some guys need to know more or less exactly what happened. Not knowing makes them feel foolish. Of course finding out the additional details also makes them feel worse, but in the end I suspect that it helps make the D easier.


----------



## workindad

OP- stick a fork in it.

Move on and leave her in your rear view mirror. She will only bring you more agony in the future.

Your brother thinks you should stay. Tell him he can have her since they are both cheaters anyway.

From her messages, she was the one pursuing. He could probably still have her if he wanted and showed interest. You don't need this crap.


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## happyman64

3 miscarriages? Ugh....

LongWalk is so on the money.

Your wifes self esteem is in the gutter. She is broken and lost.

Very sad to see.

But instead of screwing around and losing her marriage and family she could have gone to a shrink.

Guess the GNO's and the OM were easier for her.

You are heading in the right direction.

HM


----------



## footballguy89

Before the miscarriages she was pretty good, wanted a second kid pretty bad... lost her faith and her way after the miscarriages.

I'm still in the marriage for now. Not sure if the post went through but I said my answer to the counsellor, wife and naturopathic is "I don't know what I want." So it buys me time. Some times its awkward, it is nice to cuddle at bedtime. 

We did go on a month long vacation in September, Disneyland and 10 National Parks. Some of it was enjoyable. I thought maybe I would fall back in love with her... didn't happen.

She has only gone out 2 or 3 times in the last 9 months.

Some reasons I stay until I decide what to do... I get to see my kid everyday.... I am in control, if I leave I can tell my kid why our marriage didn't work in the future... the fact that I can still live with a cheater for a year after shows I gave it a chance... (will show next girl I tried).... money... sorry had to edit details, PM me if you want to know more.

That conversation between them was 2 months after the sex. Notice she deleted his number, so she had to use Facebook (why I got to see the messages). He wasn't man enough to talk to her after the sex, butgoing by the letter, he does have a few morals, so I think the wife was pissed off that he would send me the letter when they were done.


----------



## LongWalk

footballguy89 said:


> My wife doesn't drink much, a glass of wine every few months, she obviously hit the booze hard during the affair.
> 
> She has told some of her friends, didn't tell her family. I told my brother, (him and his wife cheat on each other... he thinks I should stay). My parents and sister get along great with her, so I haven't told them, of course I will if we separate.
> 
> If you divorce, it is a challenge to your brother and his wife to repair their relationship or divorce.
> 
> The post that hasn't been put up yet mentioned a little about my MIL... she is a psycho. Messed up our marriage lots, especially the summer the affair heated up, then came and saw my wife less than a month before my wife cheated.
> 
> Wife's family are POS'. Her real dad has only come to see us 1 weekend in our 8 years of marriage. We've made 2 week long trips to see him. MIL is manipulative, married a drinker, he has stopped but she still has issues. Made it clear they have no intentions of coming to see us but we are still expected to go see them. I'll divorce my wife before I waste my time on them.
> 
> Here is a major cause of her problems. She came from a dysfunctional family and is replicating what is normal for her. Has your wife observed that she is repeating the same pattern?
> 
> We also had 3 miscarriages after our first child. Wife says she lost herself.
> 
> That is tough. How did it make you feel?
> 
> Before the affair, when we go see counsellors wife and I agree sex is great in the marriage. So not 100% sold that she needed the sex with him, just liked the attention and made out a second time when they were drunk. Obviously sex now is when I want it unless she cries that we haven't had sex in a month, then I might feel bad for her. Last few times I thought of other girls to make it more enjoyable. Also, I might fall asleep and then wake up an hour later horny and then try to get some.
> 
> Your wife can feel this and it is making her even more depressed. Does she try hard to connect emotionally when you have sex?
> 
> Is her orgasm a relief in that she feels that because you made her come, you have forgiven her in some way?


Have you considered putting POSOM up on Cheaterville? Not your wife. Just him. Write a brief factual description. Giving him a payback may give you some release.


----------



## sidney2718

As is often the case, LongWalk writes wisdom:



LongWalk said:


> Ball Guy,
> 
> Usually TAM posters advise that the WS must quit the job. But since she has been outed there, perhaps it is better to keep her on the straight and narrow.


I agree. More: if they end up in D, her having a job will help him financially.



> re: privacy
> Once you have a few more posts you can request that the mods transfer your thread to Private. But unless your wife is on your computer, I wouldn't worry too much about it. There are 300 million persons in the USA and this site is frequented just a small percentage of them.


I agree, especially if it make the OP feel more secure.



> re: the future
> Your wife's letter is very disturbing to say the least. She was basically saying that if wanted to have sex with her to see if she was a woman worth having a LTR with. The letter reeks of neediness and low self esteem. So, the question you must be asking yourself is how can you fill the empty hole in her heart. Her self image took a heavy blow. She was not attractive enough to make POSOM chase her. Having sex did not seem to raise her sex ranking.
> 
> In short, her body and personality were naked, he tried the goods and dumped her.


I thought the letter was quite pathetic. It gave more or less honest reasons for the affair. It let the OP know that her state of mind at the time was such that even a bit of attention from the OM swept her off her feet. The OP, as is often the case in many marriages, had evidently not swept his wife off her feet in years. Of course he has to live in the real world, she and the OM did not.

LongWalk is right about the low self-esteem and the neediness. If there is a reconciliation I doubt she'd risk further esteem destruction by even thinking about a new affair. Being quickly dumped by the affair partner can't have made her feel go.





> Was she in love with him? From the letter I would say infatuated but not in love. She was ready to fall in love with him if he rocked her world. No orgasm? Maybe POSOM did not even try very hard to get her off. More humilation for her.


Again LongWalk writes truth.



> re: Polygraphs
> Opinion is divided about these but your wife is so naive that you could probably give her two aspirin, tell her they are powerful but harmless truth pills. She will spill more if you put the threat of D pressure on her. Do you need to know more?


I hope she's not _that_ dumb. Folks often recommend polygraphs but I've seen very few threads in which they are actually used. And in the few I have seen, several BS's have complained that they did not believe the polygraph results. There is a reason why they are not admitted in evidence in court.



> re: Your wife as a person
> Your wife needs IC. There is no guarantee that IC will fix her. Nothing you mention suggests severe personality disorder or mental illness, so she might become a better person/better partner.
> 
> Do you consider her a fundamentally decent person?
> 
> If she regained some self confidence, do you believe you could find her attractive again?
> 
> Are you having sex now?
> 
> Did you go through a period so hysterical bonding?
> 
> You are now the leader in your relationship. That is a heavy role. To save your marriage she must take a more active role.
> 
> Tell her that instead of asking you if you still love her, she should be telling you with warmth and sincerity that she loves you. That you have been good to her both before and after the affair. She should be trying to reestablish a good connection with you even if you are cold. She needs to keep trying.
> 
> There is a lot misery in your life. Tell yourself three times a day that you are going to resolve this and come out stronger and healthier. You will deliver the gift of your strength to your child. You will include your wife if you can but you are not obligated.
> 
> What do your families say about your current troubles?


All the above is, in my opinion, right on!


----------



## happyman64

FGuy

So I assume you have put boundaries in place that your wife is following.

Have you demanded she get counseling?

Because if I was still home a year later I would want to see if my wayward wife was capable of being a big girl, tightening her big girl panties and see if she was capable of being the woman, wife and mother I thought I had.

Have you communicated anything like that with her?

She clearly knew what she was losing. She wrote it in the letter.

What consequences have you put in place?

HM


----------



## X-B

I feel for you. I would serve her on her birthday if you really don't love her anymore. I wish I could serve my wife divorce papers. I am stuck is a screwed up situation. My health insurance id through my stupid wife and I sort of need it right now. But I am starting to think it in not worth having to see her every day. I am at the point I really don't care if I have the stupid insurance anymore. My pride has to be worth something. 
It sucks being in our situation.


----------



## tom67

X-Betaman said:


> I feel for you. I would serve her on her birthday if you really don't love her anymore. I wish I could serve my wife divorce papers. I am stuck is a screwed up situation. My health insurance id through my stupid wife and I sort of need it right now. But I am starting to think it in not worth having to see her every day. I am at the point I really don't care if I have the stupid insurance anymore. My pride has to be worth something.
> It sucks being in our situation.


I really feel for you X
ugh!


----------



## illwill

This is a train wreck. Good luck. Oh, and the next girl aint gonna care that you tried to work it out with a cheater, unless she plans on cheating too.


----------



## footballguy89

illwill said:


> This is a train wreck. Good luck. Oh, and the next girl aint gonna care that you tried to work it out with a cheater, unless she plans on cheating too.


Many posts to respond to tomorrow, just a quick thought... I think the next girl will respect me given my top choice would be a close friend of ours who is wanting a nice church going family man. She is still a virgin, so I wouldn't worry much about the cheating. My wife knows she is a possibility, even asked me today if I want that girl. However, in the 8 years I've known the girl, I've only said hi and one or 2 sentences a week to her as I was married. Definitely a possibility as my kid love her too. Can't try anything until I leave my wife though.


----------



## illwill

Spend more time around here and you'll learn not to make assumptions about what people may or may not do. Even church people.

Although the virgin may be a safer bet. 

Because you need to pick a better picker. There had to be red flags with your wife.


----------



## workindad

footballguy89 said:


> She has only gone out 2 or 3 times in the last 9 months.
> *If she was really committed to saving her family- this number would be zero.*
> 
> 
> That conversation between them was 2 months after the sex. Notice she deleted his number, so she had to use Facebook (why I got to see the messages). He wasn't man enough to talk to her after the sex, butgoing by the letter, he does have a few morals, so I think the wife was pissed off that he would send me the letter when they were done.
> *He may have spoken to her at work- there would be no record of that for you to view, just the word of a cheater.*


----------



## Thorburn

My take on all this is that the marriage is done. Take whatever time you need. Your emotional state says a lot. You certainly seemed detached. Your wife sees it. And her comments to the OM says it all, she knew she screwed up yet she still pursued the OM. As an afterthought, I see why you are detached after reading those conversations between your wife and the OM. You see her feelings towards this OM. Not easy to get over and in your case you haven't and that is OK.


----------



## Acabado

Still fail to see where OP even hinted WW didn't put the required effort to R of failed to follow his boundaries.

Many posters seem to think if a R fails is because WW wasn't remorseful enough, failed short at this or that... it's not always the case. Remorse don't grant forgiveness, reconciliation, respect, love, trust. Remorse grants nothing because it takes two and sometimes every cell of the BS rejects the notion of R.

The detachment is obvious, transpires through every one of his posts. I suspect it's what has been going on since very early on. That's why OP even has a potential new girl in mind.

Regarding the facebook conversation I just see a woman who realized that having that letter, reading the mindset she had back when she sent the email was the real dealbreaker for OP. And the email is the real deal, isn't it? Too damaging, she knew it. It's a clear window on her mind when she was still persuing this OM. It's not a pretty picture, no one is.
It's not exactly special, it's very typical actually. I'm sure any BS here who had the "luck" of reading their wayward actual comunications or seeing pictures, etc know what I'm talking about. Right to the heart.

And when a BS can't find a way to still love their wayward then...


----------



## Thorburn

Acabado said:


> Still fail to see where OP even hinted WW didn't put the required effort to R of failed to follow his boundaries.
> 
> Many posters seem to think if a R fails is because WW wasn't remorseful enough, failed short at this or that... it's not always the case. Remorse don't grant forgiveness, reconciliation, respect, love, trust. Remorse grants nothing because it takes two and sometimes every cell of the BS rejects the notion of R.
> 
> The detachment is obvious, transpires through every one of his posts. I suspect it's what has been going on since very early on. That's why OP even has a potential new girl in mind.
> 
> Regarding the facebook conversation I just see a woman who realized that having that letter, reading the mindset she had back when she sent the email was the real dealbreaker for OP. And the email is the real deal, isn't it? Too damaging, she knew it. It's a clear window on her mind when she was still persuing this OM. It's not a pretty picture, no one is.
> It's not exactly special, it's very typical actually. I'm sure any BS here who had the "luck" of reading their wayward actual comunications or seeing pictures, etc know what I'm talking about. Right to the heart.
> 
> And when a BS can't find a way to still love their wayward then...


:iagree: Spot on Acabado.


----------



## harrybrown

She really messed up.

Give her freedom, and a divorce. She did so much to pursue the OM. Has she tried to ever pursue you? Too late anyway.

Give her the divorce papers as a new year start, so she can continue to pursue others and be out of your life.

You deserve better.


----------



## footballguy89

Again, thanks for the responses.... I don't want to insult anybody as you guys are only going by what I say. But my brother is an awesome guy and has my back. When I told him he said he is never talking to her again. Only then did he tell me about his marriage, we knew his wife was nuts, when my brother got cheated on he chose to do the same. The difference is they don't tell each other. So my brother only thinks about me and my son when he gives me advice.

I called the other guy about 1.5 months after I found out. My wife was out of town for a week. I said lots, they were consenting adults, I don't want to get in their way, he can pick her up at the airport, etc. I also sent him a few texts of pictures of a girl I knew as I go out of town to play football, letting him know my plan was to cheat on my wife for a year (since that is how long their affair was) then dump her. So I sent the pictures letting him know I was scoring with hot chicks/models and he was only getting my wife. I also mentioned I was a real man as they orgasimed. I was lying but he didn't know that. He hasn't told my wife, if he wanted her you would think he would pass that info on.

As bad as the letter was, it still hurt more than she slept with him.... and on her birthday, yet our MC and wife thought it wasn't a big deal when it happened.

The wife has tried to reconcile, as someone said, I tried very little after the first month or so. Last night I was smiling so she thought I still loved her. With a straight face, I let her know on a scale of 1 to 100 I love you a 0.


----------



## manticore

footballguy89 said:


> The wife has tried to reconcile, as someone said, I tried very little after the first month or so. Last night I was smiling so she thought I still loved her. With a straight face, *I let her know on a scale of 1 to 100 I love you a 0.*


I don't want to question your statament but if this is real this means that you are 100% detached for your wife.

but if this is the case then why haven't you filed yet and why are you not dating or trying the single man's live.

I understand that your daughter is a factor but it seems that you don't even want to try reconcilation (which is okey really), have you disscused divorce or arregnments for separation?


----------



## LongWalk

Ball Guy,

You are still processing her destructive thoughts and actions.



> As bad as the letter was, it still hurt more than she slept with him.... and on her birthday, yet our MC and wife thought it wasn't a big deal when it happened.
> 
> Hope you are not going to that MC anymore. Time to find a new one. Your wife betrayed you in soul, body and mind. They all hurt.
> 
> The wife has tried to reconcile, as someone said, I tried very little after the first month or so. Last night I was smiling so she thought I still loved her. With a straight face, I let her know on a scale of 1 to 100 I love you a 0.


Your wife doesn't have her shxt together. Her family of origin is a major reason. For her dysfunctional is normal. She was looking to repair wrongs and hurts of her childhood and emulated the messed up behavior of her parents.

By now you know that you no longer love her and reconciliation is off the table. You have son. She will remain his mother. You will co-parent for years to come.

Stop lashing out at your wife. She is in a bad place. The harder to trample her, the worse she will be as a mother. So, for the sake of your son, tell your wife that you are done being angry. You forgive her but you cannot forget and you cannot remain married. She will always be the mother of your boy and for that she will always have a spot in your heart.

You need to heal and so does she. The sooner you can separate the better. The less money you pore into the maw of lawyers, the better. Get divorced and move on.

Urge her to go into therapy. Tell her that two of you will share custody and cooperate. Tell her she will love again and she will not make such a bad choice.


----------



## Dyokemm

Most people would tell you let your WW go...but in your situation I think its better to phrase it this way.

Let yourself go.

This situation is doing you no good as a person anymore.

Staying longer will only damage you further and cause more pain for your family, even your foolish WW.


----------



## sidney2718

Football Guy: I have been thinking about the letter in post 52 in this thread. The more I reread it the sadder it made me. It is actually quite pathetic. Your wife lays out the reasons for the affair -- why would she lie to her lover? You can believe those reasons.

She stupidly gambled everything on the lover. He came on to her very strongly and she bought it. She's not the first woman to do that and won't be the last.

He "sampled the goods" and as she relates, basically dumped her. Again, why would she lie about that. She's writing to her lover, not you.

The rest of the letter is a cry from the heart. She has lost everything, husband, home, family, she's lost it all. All for one stupid affair with a lover who didn't think she was worth it. She's learned a lot from this, but too late.

I feel sorry for her, but she's not my wife.

You must do what you feel is the right thing. Reconciliation seems to be out of the question. Nobody would blame you for that, except possibly you further down the road.

Your wife was a stupid innocent little girl not wise in the ways of guys who just want to get somebody into bed.

But I think there will be no reconciliation. It takes two to do that. You've not bought into it and neither has she, mainly because I don't think she "gets it" yet. But I doubt it would take much to have her "get it".

I wish you luck and love in your life.


----------



## footballguy89

MC is on my side, I just disagree as sleeping with someone on your birthday pretty much means you'll have a lifetime of ****ty memories come your wife's birthday, as opposed to it being any other day.

When I do let her know I don't love her (only when she asks as I don't rub it in) she asks why am I still here? I give her a little hope, "I loved you in the past, maybe I can love you again." 

Given what she put me through, I don't mind making the odd low blow, just to send the message, "I know you are trying hard, today is not your lucky day as I am not ready."

I have no problem with her telling 2 or 3 friends to get help, I object to a dozen knowing. My wife knows I'll never hang out with any of her friends that know again. And to take a shot of them knowing that I know they know, on our anniversary (I did give my wife the heads up on what I was doing) I posted on her facebook wall... 

"Happy Anniversary??"

Then 2 minutes later put, "Sorry used wrong punctuation!! Happy Anniversary!!"

My friends and family commented that I was so funny, lol, etc. as they aren't in the loop. Yet a few of her friends PM her that it was a d*ck move on my part!

The one friend that my wife talked to during the affair warned my wife not to do it. Too bad she didn't say anything but I'll never have to deal with her again so not my problem.

More later.


----------



## LongWalk

> "Happy Anniversary??"
> 
> Then 2 minutes later put, "Sorry used wrong punctuation!! Happy Anniversary!!"
> 
> My friends and family commented that I was so funny, lol, etc. as they aren't in the loop. Yet a few of her friends PM her that it was a d*ck move on my part!


:iagree: That was a d*ck move.

You have to grow up.

Humiliating your wife on Facebook is immature.

I think you do still love your wife, but cannot get over her cheating. What punishment or humiliation will allow you to love her again? Degrading her will just making loving her feel absurd. You are sabotaging your R. If you want D go for it. If you want to fix your marriage, tell her to keeping trying. 

Tell her that she has a right to tell you when you're treating her cruelly without any purpose.

Give your wife hug and tell her you're going make a decision about your marriage.

Go to a gym and work out hard to get rid of the anger.


----------



## jim123

LongWalk said:


> :iagree: That was a d*ck move.
> 
> You have to grow up.
> 
> Humiliating your wife on Facebook is immature.
> 
> I think you do still love your wife, but cannot get over her cheating. What punishment or humiliation will allow you to love her again? Degrading her will just making loving her feel absurd. You are sabotaging your R. If you want D go for it. If you want to fix your marriage, tell her to keeping trying.
> 
> Tell her that she has a right to tell you when you're treating her cruelly without any purpose.
> 
> Give your wife hug and tell her you're going make a decision about your marriage.
> 
> Go to a gym and work out hard to get rid of the anger.


And her having an affair is not? I have seen far worse on facebook.


----------



## illwill

You are enjoying this soap opera a little too much. You either deeply love her or you are punishing her.


----------



## Dyokemm

"You are enjoying this soap opera a little too much. You either deeply love her or you are punishing her."

I really think both are true.

I mentioned earlier, I feel like all the things he is doing and the way he is with her combined with the fact he doesn't seem to actively want to leave puts him in that limbo category of BS I call the 'I love you but I don't like you anymore.'

He will stay here until the dreariness of this either kills his love off and frees him to leave or he can once again start to feel empathy for his WW and the pain she is in ( I am assuming from OP's own posts that she is truly remorseful and trying hard).


----------



## footballguy89

LongWalk I have the utmost respect for your posts, I wish I had the time to respond more to you than just in group responses for everybody. But my wife choosing to kiss a guy on my birthday, dragging me on our anniversary night to hang out with a group of people including the guy she kissed was a d*ck move. And sleeping with someone on her birthday celebration, when I am expected to spoil her every birthday after that is a d*ck move. Honestly, if we stay together, I think it would be best if we ignore her birthday for the rest of her life. And telling me about the affair on my dad's birthday pretty much says I don't like special days.

A little humour is relief in a messed up life.

Humiliating my wife and punishing her will not make up for the pain she caused. Causing her some pain is probably a defence mechanism saying you hurt me, I can hurt you.

A naturopathic did clear me of all my negative emotions making it seem like pain and guilt never existed. 

I took lots of advice, while I say me wife is trying hard there are lots of mixed signals. Likewise I change my mind a lot daily. But I don't love her at all or respect her.

New info... I asked her to get tested for STD's yesterday. She mentioned I didn't ask her before we started dating, so why am I asking now? I say, you had sex outside the marriage. She assures me she doesn't have anything and why am I trying to humiliate her? She thinks I should get tested too, I let her know if she has something I will get tested. Said maybe when she goes for a pap smear she'll get one.

Tonight she went for super with a girlfriend. (I didn't mind) The guy is on his way to Cuba, I don't think anything is going on, I say I might want you to send a picture of your friend to me while you are eating supper. She can't understand why.... I say I don't trust you and if you show me you are being honest, it could show me that I can start to trust you. She still doesn't understand. 

We talked for a few hours tonight. I went through the letter with her and brought up several question, her responses were... I didn't think before I typed, that's not what that meant, I wanted my husband, he was not plan A, he knew I wouldn't leave my husband, etc. 

So we start talking about her birthday, she wanted to have sex with him that night. Plain as that but the day I said it was okay to for to her to move out (3 days after she told me) it hit her that she wanted me. Extremely messed up, I see the writing on the wall.

I'm a Christian, I can tell her I forgive her, but I can't accept what she did, so can I really forgive her? I'm not sure.

You are right I am angry, she got a text from her mom recently,that they want us to go there for Christmas... (I have only hinted at parent problems)... spent 2 Christmas' with her family... first one MIL said we are getting a divorce and taking my wife away because I went out for lunch with my brother's family and didn't invite them, also threw every thing I did in the first 2 years of marriage in my face that she thought I did wrong. 2 years later, we agree to do spend Christmas with them. Twice before I go, MIL tells wife she should have married someone else. I still go, our cats aren't allowed in their house when they get there even though they said we could bring them even though their dog was in our house 10 times that year. Next day Step FIL tries to fight me 4 times, night ends with MIL yelling at me "get the f*ck out of my house, get the f*ck out of my house!) I was almost done with marriage, luckily inlaws moved 2500 km away shortly after this fight as I told myself one more fight and I'm done. Now that was4 years ago but is my MIL that f*cking stupid to think I would ever spend another Christmas with them... And there is more.

Why am I with my wife still? I feel because of her parents I haven't tried for years in the marriage... why would I? My wife deserves to have something normal in her life. Maybe I should have tried more... doesn't matter she slept with someone else. I do blame her parents for alot of her problems but the bottom line is she couldn't stop what she needed to stop before it was too late. 

We've talked about divorce and separating a few times, just haven't pulled the trigger. Maybe I am a little scared of being on my own (I do know who I go to first, if she says no, there is no back up plan) plus the embarrassment of telling people she cheated on me may look like I'm not a man. After 8 or 9 months, I am more confident that I have few issues and my marriage had little chance even if we both love our son with all our heart. Even though she denies it, she did something that says I don't want this family to stay together.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

illwill said:


> You are enjoying this soap opera a little too much. You either deeply love her or you are punishing her.


My guess is both.


----------



## illwill

Her desire to not get a std test is troubling. This is the least she can do for you.


----------



## LongWalk

I think your last post was a good one because it delves into your problems. Your in-laws are a pain. End your socializing with them until you can stand them one or two nights a year.

After infidelity people always scream get tested for STDs. The chances that she caught something are not that great. I presume you are not that anxious. HPV is something to worry about. When is her next pap smear scheduled for?

I think you do love your wife and you fear the consequences of splitting up. Do not get down on yourself for either of those feelings.

If you a certain that you do not love your wife, you should divorce her. It's that simple. You will continue to be a father.

If you are going to stay together, you need change the way you act. Not her, you. If she responds to you and becomes a better person, a better wife, then you will have proven to be leader.

As to what other people think about you, don't worry so much about them. If you love her want to stay with her and fix things, that is your affair. If you want to divorce her, it is likewise, not of their bees' wax.


----------



## illwill

LongWalk said:


> I think your last post was a good one because it delves into your problems. Your in-laws are a pain. End your socializing with them until you can stand them one or two nights a year.
> 
> After infidelity people always scream get tested for STDs. The chances that she caught something are not that great. I presume you are not that anxious. HPV is something to worry about. When is her next pap smear scheduled for?
> 
> I think you do love your wife and you fear the consequences of splitting up. Do not get down on yourself for either of those feelings.
> 
> If you a certain that you do not love your wife, you should divorce her. It's that simple. You will continue to be a father.
> 
> If you are going to stay together, you need change the way you act. Not her, you. If she responds to you and becomes a better person, a better wife, then you will have proven to be leader.
> 
> As to what other people think about you, don't worry so much about them. If you love her want to stay with her and fix things, that is your affair. If you want to divorce her, it is likewise, not of their bees' wax.


You really want to argue against a std test? Very wreckless.


----------



## footballguy89

Maybe I could forgive the affair, combined with the in laws, it's too much. Not worth it.

95% done the marriage. Just waiting for the last 5%. I do feel sorry for my wife, it was sad watching her sleep... I see a pathetic person who wasn't strong enough to stop the affair.

There were many low blows to me when I caught it as a EA. I had previous plans to go away that weekend but I was afraid to leave her alone. She said I could trust her. While I'm gone she twits 'house to myself, what is a women to do?' Given I'm not on twitter, when I see it, I call. She said she only did it to see if he would do anything. He did text asking to come over. She said what a jerk. The jerk comment mislead me. After we started MC two weeks later, we both put up family pictures of us on Facebook, didn't stop her. Later she twits 'that awesome feeling when your husband try's to win you back!' Affair wasn't stopped. Then a month before her birthday she is mad at the computer, I help her out, bring up the history, see she looked at one picture of him. Assured nothing is going on. Can't be there for someone who wants to destroy their life.

50/50 whether I contact the other girl this weekend. Just want to know if there is a chance we could have a future together?


----------



## illwill

footballguy89 said:


> Maybe I could forgive the affair, combined with the in laws, it's too much. Not worth it.
> 
> 95% done the marriage. Just waiting for the last 5%. I do feel sorry for my wife, it was sad watching her sleep... I see a pathetic person who wasn't strong enough to stop the affair.
> 
> There were many low blows to me when I caught it as a EA. I had previous plans to go away that weekend but I was afraid to leave her alone. She said I could trust her. While I'm gone she twits 'house to myself, what is a women to do?' Given I'm not on twitter, when I see it, I call. She said she only did it to see if he would do anything. He did text asking to come over. She said what a jerk. The jerk comment mislead me. After we started MC two weeks later, we both put up family pictures of us on Facebook, didn't stop her. Later she twits 'that awesome feeling when your husband try's to win you back!' Affair wasn't stopped. Then a month before her birthday she is mad at the computer, I help her out, bring up the history, see she looked at one picture of him. Assured nothing is going on. Can't be there for someone who wants to destroy their life.
> 
> 50/50 whether I contact the other girl this weekend. Just want to know if there is a chance we could have a future together?


Who are you trying to convince? Us or you? And leave the other girl alone, or you will be no better than your wife.

If you are truly done man up and pull the trigger. But do it for yourself, not us, or some cute girl.


----------



## Dyokemm

"You really want to argue against a std test? Very wreckless."

I agree completely.

Especially with something like HPV, which has no noticeable symptoms in males. 

If OP does decide to move on, it would be nice to know that he would not be endangering his new partner due to the s****y cheating of his former WW.


----------



## footballguy89

My wife actually was pushing my to the 'nice' girl saying I deserve someone who would treat me nice (right after she told me). Once I started thinking about everything, that made sense. Of course for the last few months the wife has been worried about this becoming a reality.

My only intentions with the girl would be to talk to her one time, then a few months after the divorce/separation is started, maybe start dating. Given what my wife did, I think I have the right to explore options in a conversation.

My wife says that letter makes her look bad as he pursued a lot too.

All I wanted was honesty..... Last night she finally admitted that she liked him and wanted to fvck him. Before, given we are Christians and she knew the only good reason for a divorce is adultery, her excuses included... I didn't know if you truly loved me so I figured if I cheated on you and you were then free to go but if you stayed that would have meant you really do love me! Try wrapping your head around that trying to figure out what kind of sick love your wife has for you?

According to affair survival website you should stay until you are emotionally healed and a few other points.... I'm getting healthier and mentally stable/right, so I can leave soon. Actually, get the wife to leave, I get the house.


----------



## happyman64

footballguy89 said:


> My wife actually was pushing my to the 'nice' girl saying I deserve someone who would treat me nice (right after she told me). Once I started thinking about everything, that made sense. Of course for the last few months the wife has been worried about this becoming a reality.
> 
> My only intentions with the girl would be to talk to her one time, then a few months after the divorce/separation is started, maybe start dating. Given what my wife did, I think I have the right to explore options in a conversation.
> 
> My wife says that letter makes her look bad as he pursued a lot too.
> 
> All I wanted was honesty..... Last night she finally admitted that she liked him and wanted to fvck him. Before, given we are Christians and she knew the only good reason for a divorce is adultery, her excuses included... I didn't know if you truly loved me so I figured if I cheated on you and you were then free to go but if you stayed that would have meant you really do love me! Try wrapping your head around that trying to figure out what kind of sick love your wife has for you?
> 
> According to affair survival website you should stay until you are emotionally healed and a few other points.... I'm getting healthier and mentally stable/right, so I can leave soon. Actually, get the wife to leave, I get the house.


Like I said your wife is very immature.

Worse her self esteem is nonexistent.

And yes you are right, her view of love is perverse.

Get stronger. Get your head on straight and make your long term plans.

Without her.

HM


----------



## manticore

footballguy89 said:


> I didn't know if you truly loved me so I figured if I cheated on you and you were then free to go but if you stayed that would have meant you really do love me! Try wrapping your head around that trying to figure out what kind of sick love your wife has for you?


FG89, I am gonna sound harsh but I think sometimes is necessary.

you are not a kid who has never dated before, everybody knows that her excuse is bull crap, of course she didn't cheat to test you, she cheated because having attention from more than one source and having sex feels good, as easy as that, she was selfish and uncosiderate of your feelings.

she didn't think in consequences and now that she have to face them she invent as many stupid excuses as possible to see if you swallow one.

no wonder your first R attemp failed, as long as she don't show ownerships of her actions how can she possible help you to heal.

after all everything was a test, why are you so hurt and indignated by a simple test? *bull crap I tell you*


----------



## JCD

You know...for a supposed Christian, with the statement by Christ Himself of 'Turn the other cheek', your actions of hurting this person are very much out of character for a person of actual...you know...faith. What is the point of faith if the teaching never change your actions?

You want vengeance? Fine. Get it! Hurt the hell out of her. But you look straight in the mirror and admit this to yourself. "I want to hurt her like she hurt me." You don't get any rationalizations. You want to hurt her. Not a very nice thing to want to say to yourself. Not something you want to BELIEVE about yourself. 

You said she's trying to atone for her sins. You aren't feeling it. Fine. Get out. Leave. This is a moral choice. You don't go a year and drag your cleats across her face before you go, planning to leave the entire time. Cause from every post you've written, you're just marking time before that starter pistol.

Instead, you want an entry on your 'relationship resume' that you 'tried' to R, if by 'try' you mean 'stuck around for a year while she bent over backwards giving you sex and cooking your meals.' That is like me standing on a football field saying I am 'training' for football.

Now...I can't know your heart. I am sure there is a lot of pain and you have been treated shabbily. I also know what R looks like, and this isn't it. You don't get an excuse for 'd*ck moves'. They may happen, but it is because they burst out of your heart, not as a pre planned 'beating of the bushes' to find her accomplices and cause her a lot of pain and humiliation.

Just bear in mind, that the 'hurting someone' goes both ways. Yup...she started it. But you are humiliating her in public and yet stating that you are not to be humiliated by this story getting out.

Guess what? She can go to every one of your mutual friends and shred your ego and reputation to tiny pieces with this story. She hasn't. Why? She loves you and is trying to patch things up. She gets that you don't try to make things worse in these situations.

When are you going to get that?

And please...before you dump wife, consider that your exit strategy of the 'virgin next door' might wind up with Ms. Purity laughing in your face. So don't ASSUME there is another perfect person out there for you. It MIGHT happen, but consider that

-You might not get the house (men seldom do)

-You won't have as much money when you leave

-You might have at least 2-3 years before you get laid

If you consider these possibilities, actually WORKING at R doesn't seem like such a bad deal. There is a reason divorce lawyers ALWAYS ask if there is no hope at getting together: because life afterwards REALLY sucks for a LONG time.

Wife needs to get STD tested. Wife needs to NOT go out anymore without you. Wife needs to change her job.

You need to hold up your end...OR LEAVE.

Edited to add: This is a harsh post, and I get that. If this happened to you last week, I would not post this. It would be fresh and horribly painful. However, you have had 9 months to DO something and to heal. It doesn't seem you have and your actions aren't very flattering. Think hard about this.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

footballguy89 said:


> I'm getting healthier and mentally stable/right, so I can leave soon. Actually, get the wife to leave, I get the house.


You are FAR from mentally stable. You get the wife to leave, you still may not get the house. You both are terribly immature.


----------



## footballguy89

Points taken... I am only saying that I have hit rock bottom but I can feel that I am starting to heal. It's a long journey and there will be setbacks. I can now smile around the wife because I know she can't hurt me any more... Even if I were to catch in the act.. I'm almost 100% detached.

Other than a Facebook post, I don't think I have humiliated her publicly. I read lots of posts here before I posted, people have lots of triggers plus with D-day anniversaries and the question of how to get through it, I thought about the option of dumping her near the day as a way to cover up the day with a new memory.

When I say my wife is trying hard, she is only to the point where she should have been all along. Instead of doing 10% of the housework, she is trying to do her 50%. After 7.5 years of not caring about the finances, she is trying a bit. We have separate accounts now, first month she spent all her pay checks and an extra $1800. Second month was a $1000 over. 8 months later she is now going to try better.


----------



## footballguy89

We are both immature, even today we were out with friends, she brings our friend over (who she thinks when he finds out about her affair, he'll never speak to her again) and says, "**** thinks I'm a blessing in your life, what do you think?" Of course, I give the PC answer, "I'll have to think about that question, what definition of blessing are we going by?" She knew she's not, so why ask?

I have done alot for my wife since she cheated on me. Kept the affair news quiet (only told 3 people... haven't told my parents or sister as she doesn't want a bad relationship with my family like we have with her family). After her crying and crying, I agreed to let her come to Disneyland, sacrificing my enjoyment for my son, so I didn't take our son there without her. To me, I could have punished her by leaving at home, instead I settled for a few jabs here and there.

I only started telling her I don't love her at all, when she asks, because she thinks I do love her. Want her to start dealing with the upcoming reality.

I don't keep track but she's probably gone out more than the 2-3 times I said. She went to her work Christmas party, which I told her I didn't feel comfortable with. Since I started posting on here (plus knowing she can't hurt me) she and I have discussed things...

She isn't going to stop drinking because she thinks people can always control their actions when they drink, even though I argue the opposite.

She isn't going to stop going out because she is a social person and wants to hang out with her friends.

She learned from her mistake, she knows what she can lose, so she won't risk it again....

I haven't asked her to quit her job, she could switch shifts so she would only see him once a day and won't have free time at the same time but I bet she won't do that as she would lose seeing all her girlfriends. She is a jail guard, they are partnered up in two, so they aren't free to wander around and talk to anybody they want. That is part of why her work isn't a big threat. They can text each other.

Besides immature, we are both stubborn too! Too many issues to work on.


----------



## ConanHub

footballguy89 said:


> We are both immature, even today we were out with friends, she brings our friend over (who she thinks when he finds out about her affair, he'll never speak to her again) and says, "**** thinks I'm a blessing in your life, what do you think?" Of course, I give the PC answer, "I'll have to think about that question, what definition of blessing are we going by?" She knew she's not, so why ask?
> 
> I have done alot for my wife since she cheated on me. Kept the affair news quiet (only told 3 people... haven't told my parents or sister as she doesn't want a bad relationship with my family like we have with her family). After her crying and crying, I agreed to let her come to Disneyland, sacrificing my enjoyment for my son, so I didn't take our son there without her. To me, I could have punished her by leaving at home, instead I settled for a few jabs here and there.
> 
> I only started telling her I don't love her at all, when she asks, because she thinks I do love her. Want her to start dealing with the upcoming reality.
> 
> I don't keep track but she's probably gone out more than the 2-3 times I said. She went to her work Christmas party, which I told her I didn't feel comfortable with. Since I started posting on here (plus knowing she can't hurt me) she and I have discussed things...
> 
> She isn't going to stop drinking because she thinks people can always control their actions when they drink, even though I argue the opposite.
> 
> She isn't going to stop going out because she is a social person and wants to hang out with her friends.
> 
> She learned from her mistake, she knows what she can lose, so she won't risk it again....
> 
> I haven't asked her to quit her job, she could switch shifts so she would only see him once a day and won't have free time at the same time but I bet she won't do that as she would lose seeing all her girlfriends. She is a jail guard, they are partnered up in two, so they aren't free to wander around and talk to anybody they want. That is part of why her work isn't a big threat. They can text each other.
> 
> Besides immature, we are both stubborn too! Too many issues to work on.


I don't think she has learned a hell of a lot. She hasn't shown actions that show true remorse. If she wants to change then she would need to change quite a bit.
It does not seem fixing herself and her marriage is her top priority.
You seem to be doing well however.


----------



## footballguy89

I only mentioned the girl was a 'virgin' because she is and its easier to call her something. I almost never discuss past relationships with people I date. So didn't know if my wife slept with 1 person or 100. Only care about what they do while they date me. It's a small world, so you usually can get a heads up. I met my wife at church but found out one of roommates knew her. He gave me the go-ahead.

I think I've got an above average shot with the virgin. I'm a long term relationship kind of guy anyway so I could wait until marriage if she wanted to. We could also go on one or two dates and find out we aren't right for each other.

We've discussed several times, my wife wouldn't be able to afford the house, I would get it, she'd get her share of the house in other things.

Thinking about my wife saying she learnt from her mistake and she won't made that mistake again made me start thinking about something. I should think more instead of typing but here goes..... My wife was raped 2 or 3 months before I met her. Not comparing rape to an affair, as only one is consensual and legal, but I'm thinking my wife should haven known how destructive sex can be, based on her past and not need an affair to get her to see how bad things can get.


----------



## footballguy89

I also showed her a thread about heavy lifting, she thought that was a form of abuse. Thinks both people have to work at it.


----------



## ConanHub

footballguy89 said:


> I also showed her a thread about heavy lifting, she thought that was a form of abuse. Thinks both people have to work at it.


Your wife is more than a little "off".

Cheating is abuse.

Whoever abuses their spouse should do the work to repair what they have done.

Your wife isn't owning this really.

She is making you partly to blame for her crazy crotch syndrome.


----------



## Thor

Many rape victims don't consider it to be sex. Thus she would not make the connection about how destructive affair sex can be.

But any adult should know that affairs are destructive to the relationship and that it deeply hurts the BS.


----------



## LostWifeCrushed

I dont know whats going on.....why are you even talking about having a shot with the virgin and waiting till marriage if need be.....

Are you still with your wife?


----------



## JCD

A woman who remains a virgin this long in life (you are a bit vague about how old she is) has REASONS she is still a virgin...and it is not likely that it is because she is saving herself for marriage.

As you've added some context to the wife, I'd say dump her and dump her now. Why wait? A year isn't some magic period.

I think that it was a good thing to bring her to Disneyland. Well done on that.


----------



## illwill

JCD said:


> You know...for a supposed Christian, with the statement by Christ Himself of 'Turn the other cheek', your actions of hurting this person are very much out of character for a person of actual...you know...faith. What is the point of faith if the teaching never change your actions?
> 
> You want vengeance? Fine. Get it! Hurt the hell out of her. But you look straight in the mirror and admit this to yourself. "I want to hurt her like she hurt me." You don't get any rationalizations. You want to hurt her. Not a very nice thing to want to say to yourself. Not something you want to BELIEVE about yourself.
> 
> You said she's trying to atone for her sins. You aren't feeling it. Fine. Get out. Leave. This is a moral choice. You don't go a year and drag your cleats across her face before you go, planning to leave the entire time. Cause from every post you've written, you're just marking time before that starter pistol.
> 
> Instead, you want an entry on your 'relationship resume' that you 'tried' to R, if by 'try' you mean 'stuck around for a year while she bent over backwards giving you sex and cooking your meals.' That is like me standing on a football field saying I am 'training' for football.
> 
> Now...I can't know your heart. I am sure there is a lot of pain and you have been treated shabbily. I also know what R looks like, and this isn't it. You don't get an excuse for 'd*ck moves'. They may happen, but it is because they burst out of your heart, not as a pre planned 'beating of the bushes' to find her accomplices and cause her a lot of pain and humiliation.
> 
> Just bear in mind, that the 'hurting someone' goes both ways. Yup...she started it. But you are humiliating her in public and yet stating that you are not to be humiliated by this story getting out.
> 
> Guess what? She can go to every one of your mutual friends and shred your ego and reputation to tiny pieces with this story. She hasn't. Why? She loves you and is trying to patch things up. She gets that you don't try to make things worse in these situations.
> 
> When are you going to get that?
> 
> And please...before you dump wife, consider that your exit strategy of the 'virgin next door' might wind up with Ms. Purity laughing in your face. So don't ASSUME there is another perfect person out there for you. It MIGHT happen, but consider that
> 
> -You might not get the house (men seldom do)
> 
> -You won't have as much money when you leave
> 
> -You might have at least 2-3 years before you get laid
> 
> If you consider these possibilities, actually WORKING at R doesn't seem like such a bad deal. There is a reason divorce lawyers ALWAYS ask if there is no hope at getting together: because life afterwards REALLY sucks for a LONG time.
> 
> Wife needs to get STD tested. Wife needs to NOT go out anymore without you. Wife needs to change her job.
> 
> You need to hold up your end...OR LEAVE.
> 
> Edited to add: This is a harsh post, and I get that. If this happened to you last week, I would not post this. It would be fresh and horribly painful. However, you have had 9 months to DO something and to heal. It doesn't seem you have and your actions aren't very flattering. Think hard about this.


This is a great post. Seriously. Best thing you ever wrote JCD.


----------



## dogman

JCD said:


> You know...for a supposed Christian, with the statement by Christ Himself of 'Turn the other cheek', your actions of hurting this person are very much out of character for a person of actual...you know...faith. What is the point of faith if the teaching never change your actions?
> 
> You want vengeance? Fine. Get it! Hurt the hell out of her. But you look straight in the mirror and admit this to yourself. "I want to hurt her like she hurt me." You don't get any rationalizations. You want to hurt her. Not a very nice thing to want to say to yourself. Not something you want to BELIEVE about yourself.
> 
> You said she's trying to atone for her sins. You aren't feeling it. Fine. Get out. Leave. This is a moral choice. You don't go a year and drag your cleats across her face before you go, planning to leave the entire time. Cause from every post you've written, you're just marking time before that starter pistol.
> 
> Instead, you want an entry on your 'relationship resume' that you 'tried' to R, if by 'try' you mean 'stuck around for a year while she bent over backwards giving you sex and cooking your meals.' That is like me standing on a football field saying I am 'training' for football.
> 
> Now...I can't know your heart. I am sure there is a lot of pain and you have been treated shabbily. I also know what R looks like, and this isn't it. You don't get an excuse for 'd*ck moves'. They may happen, but it is because they burst out of your heart, not as a pre planned 'beating of the bushes' to find her accomplices and cause her a lot of pain and humiliation.
> 
> Just bear in mind, that the 'hurting someone' goes both ways. Yup...she started it. But you are humiliating her in public and yet stating that you are not to be humiliated by this story getting out.
> 
> Guess what? She can go to every one of your mutual friends and shred your ego and reputation to tiny pieces with this story. She hasn't. Why? She loves you and is trying to patch things up. She gets that you don't try to make things worse in these situations.
> 
> When are you going to get that?
> 
> And please...before you dump wife, consider that your exit strategy of the 'virgin next door' might wind up with Ms. Purity laughing in your face. So don't ASSUME there is another perfect person out there for you. It MIGHT happen, but consider that
> 
> -You might not get the house (men seldom do)
> 
> -You won't have as much money when you leave
> 
> -You might have at least 2-3 years before you get laid
> 
> If you consider these possibilities, actually WORKING at R doesn't seem like such a bad deal. There is a reason divorce lawyers ALWAYS ask if there is no hope at getting together: because life afterwards REALLY sucks for a LONG time.
> 
> Wife needs to get STD tested. Wife needs to NOT go out anymore without you. Wife needs to change her job.
> 
> You need to hold up your end...OR LEAVE.
> 
> Edited to add: This is a harsh post, and I get that. If this happened to you last week, I would not post this. It would be fresh and horribly painful. However, you have had 9 months to DO something and to heal. It doesn't seem you have and your actions aren't very flattering. Think hard about this.


Great post!

It also illustrates the first false R I've read that is false because of the betrayed spouse faking it. Kinda interesting. But just as wrong. I think the lesson to learn from the affair and all the troubles is that anything less than honesty is going to cripple the marriage.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

You are right Dogman.

What footballguy does not realize is that as long as he is in a false R with his wife and continues discussing his next girlfriend "virgin" his wife will never give more than her 50%.

Now she is protecting herself for his exit.

You have to be honest.
But you also have to be "all in" when you make that leap of faith to Reconcile otherwise everyone is just wasting their time.

I think your wife is damaged football guy.
Rape.
Prison Guard sees some disturbing sights and works with very dysfunctional people.

No good will come from any of this.

Maybe you already know this???

HM


----------



## JCD

footballguy89 said:


> I also showed her a thread about heavy lifting, she thought that was a form of abuse. Thinks both people have to work at it.


Both people DO have to work at it. She needs to prove she is trustworthy (sloppy effort on her part). But you need to do things too! It means faking it till you make it.


----------



## hookares

Late to the party. But, footballguy89, YOU need to get the STD test for YOUR protection if you have failed to do so, already.
As far as I'm concerned, if a wayward spouse has an affair without first discussing problems with their spouse, there never was much of a relationship in the first place.


----------



## illwill

If you give her no hope, why should she keep trying?


----------



## jim123

illwill said:


> If you give her no hope, why should she keep trying?


If she loves him she will never give up hope or stop trying.

Look and what CM and Mrs. Mathias did. Look at the mountains they climbed. I hope both BH's forgive as neither will find someone who loves them more.


----------



## illwill

But those are rare examples and thier husbands DID give them hope, esp Mr Mathias (he never really even kicked her out, and he let her take that trip for work). The fact those guys did not file and never went out of thier way to cause more damage to their wives is proof. 

And DD was a gentleman pretty much all the way through. Even after DDay. 2. Replacing her cell phone and defending her here.

I can think of a true R where the betrayed did not offer some glimmer of hope.

Hope is vital for love to thrive.


----------



## footballguy89

Wow what a last 24 hours!!

Around suppertime, she looks and me and asks 'are you done?' Which i reply 'yes', she tears up and asks if I am going to date the girl? I say she'd be my first choice. She can understand that she says. So then I take the wife's cell phone and text my iPad 'I ruined our marriage, I am okay with you dating ****.' She is crying and apologizing. I text her 'everyday for the last 9 months I woke up hoping you'd tell me it was a lie.' She says I wish it was.

My son and I leave the house to go to a church meeting. The wife is going to the next door neighbour's for a birthday party. I didn't tell anyone at the meeting but the crappy things is of the 3 people I told 2 were from church. So we are having a prayer meeting and then we break into partners and I am with the Head Elder. So we pray for everyone on other cards, then I throw in a few people, cousin, siblings and my son. Then the guy has the nerve to prayer for my wife and I!! Thanks alot buddy! (sarcasm)

So when I get home she comes over to quickly see our kid. We didn't say much but then she goes next door (son and I are watching football) and then she starts texting about people at the party. So to be polite I ask if there was anything good on the meat market? Se asks for me? I say for both although I don't need to hear about your details. She texts back, 'I didn't do anything wrong, we are still married and living under the same roof.' I text back 'I didn't say you did anything wrong and I know we still live under the same roof.' I then go to sleep when I hear her walk in the front door. We've broken up a few times this summer but it never lasted more than an hour.

So this morning she starts talking about things she wants us to do together. To get to the point I ask 'are you forgetting about what we talked about at 6pm yesterday? There is no us anymore.' 

More later, son wants the computer!


----------



## illwill

Great. This gives me time to get popcorn.


----------



## LongWalk

Football Guy,

Usually it is common for TAM posters to thoroughly sympathize with the BS, in this case you. I am rooting for you. However, I also feel sorry for your wife. She grew up in a dysfunctional family and was messed up long ago.

I suspect that you were attracted to her because you sensed her troubled soul. You have your own set of dysfunctional behavior patterns, some of which you have admitted to. You are co-dependent. You reinforced unhealthy behavior patterns.

Clearly your need to punish her, instead of simply divorcing her, indicates that despite your claim not to love her, you do love her. Or hate her or whatever. You are not indifferent.

Since both have a lot of issues to solve, why not go to MC and IC. Work on fixing yourselves and your marriage because you still have a lot to learn.

What sort of intstitution is your wife working at?

Your wife is looking for direction from you, not bullying. Don't belittle her. Whether it is divorce or marriage for which you are aiming, raise the level of dignity. Treat yourself with self respect and her, too.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I may risk a ban, but I have to say it. People like you are the reason I stopped going to church, hypocrisy. You call yourself a Christian, went to a prayer service and promptly started enacting revenge scenarios on your wife.

Divorce her and stop punishing her if you are really done.


----------



## dogman

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I may risk a ban, but I have to say it. People like you are the reason I stopped going to church, hypocrisy. You call yourself a Christian, went to a prayer service and promptly started enacting revenge scenarios on your wife.
> 
> Divorce her and stop punishing her if you are really done.


I've learned that being a good Christian is way easier when the people around you have bad stuff happen to them. When it's you, it gets real and many fail to apply what they've preached.


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## JCD

So...she went to a place where she is treated like a human being instead of the Wh*re of Babylon. This is a surprise?

I think a lot of "reconciling" spouses do drive away their waywards because they can't or won't let go of the bitterness and give zero hope.

Yup, she hurt you hard. You are hurting her hard. HER pain isn't real to you...just like your pain isn't real to her.

If you are done, shut your yap. Try to do this with a little dignity.

Get the paperwork and stop talking to her, particularly when neat little comments come into your head. Because I'll tell you this: you can SAY you 'tried to R' to the new perspective woman in your life but this little game playing is marking your face and your soul and most women will probably see it.


----------



## adriana

JCD said:


> So...she went to a place where she is treated like a human being instead of the Wh*re of Babylon. This is a surprise?
> 
> I think a lot of "reconciling" spouses do drive away their waywards because they can't or won't let go of the bitterness and give zero hope.
> 
> Yup, she hurt you hard. You are hurting her hard. HER pain isn't real to you...just like your pain isn't real to her.
> 
> If you are done, shut your yap. Try to do this with a little dignity.
> 
> Get the paperwork and stop talking to her, particularly when neat little comments come into your head. Because I'll tell you this: you can SAY you 'tried to R' to the new perspective woman in your life but this little game playing is marking your face and your soul and most women will probably see it.



I agree with the above post 100%.


----------



## manticore

JCD said:


> So...she went to a place where she is treated like a human being instead of the Wh*re of Babylon. This is a surprise?
> 
> I think a lot of "reconciling" spouses do drive away their waywards because they can't or won't let go of the bitterness and give zero hope.
> 
> Yup, she hurt you hard. You are hurting her hard. HER pain isn't real to you...just like your pain isn't real to her.
> 
> Get the paperwork and stop talking to her, particularly when neat little comments come into your head. Because I'll tell you this: you can SAY you 'tried to R' to the new perspective woman in your life but this little game playing is marking your face and your soul and most women will probably see it.


WTF? this is a support forum and yes he is being kind of a jerk, but who betrayed husband isn't to their WW (in the beginning), in fact yes there are a kind of BS who never lashes and is sarcastic to their WW and are the delusional betas that we always try to wake up from the fog of how their WS don't respect, love, or care about them.

the difference with "FG" and other users is that others normally just say, Ho I lashed and let her have it and they don't give datails, FG gives them and even share his thoughts, every human have revenge thoughts but many bs here don't share them even when we know they fantazyse killing OM while toturing him, just because people don't write it does it mean that it does no happen.

I really can't stand fickle users that if things don't turn exactly as they expect they lash against the OP.

also learn to see more of what is shared, I agree with other users that he have alot of feeling unresolved towards her, as is normal in the roller coster of feelings.

I don't remember nobody telling devastateddad something like *"If you are done, shut your yap. Try to do this with a little dignity."*, when he found in AM a woman who was available to bang him to get even with "changingme", yes he signed in AM, yes she looked for a woman, yes he comunicated wit her and she wanted an affair with him, and yes he was a prick and told "changingme" about it to pusnish her emotionaly and she almost throw up at work.

everybody knows that BS wants to get even in a emotinal level against the WS, they may say and talk about scenarios and lash but this does not make them emotional torturers

if you don't like the thread or you can't empathize wit the user well you know what to do


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

manticore said:


> if you don't like the thread or you can't empathize wit the user well you know what to do


Yes, you can call them on their actions. Having empathy and disagreeing with their actions is not mutually exclusive. Yes, it is possible to say "I understand your hate, but you are acting immature."

Understanding a BS wants revenge, to "get even" or anything else doesn't mean posters need to be quiet when they are crossing a line.


----------



## manticore

so now, we are going to shut down users when they lash againts their WW, that is ludicrous

why don't you go and change the fall out post guide, and teach WS how they have to feel and react in a proper way after being betrayed:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


_The Fallout
*Expect your spouse to be FURIOUS and to make all manner of threats*, “I was going to work on the marriage, now I am not!!” “I cannot trust you” “You have to pack and leave!!” “You have ruined any chance you had!!” Do not let this bother you!! Just imagine that you have taken the crackpipe away from the crack head. Of course they are angry. But it will blow over. Don’t laugh, don’t fight, don't attempt to reason with them, and most of all, don’t be SCARED! Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it cannot survive an ongoing affair! The madder your WS, the harder you hit the target!_


He is not BS 20 years later using the affair as excuse to torture or manipulate his WS, he was recently betrayed and is understable to expect the fall out symptoms, you and JCD are the ones who are out of order, you are supposed to know the CWI newbie thread as bibble.

PS: Okey, maybe I over reacted with the out of order accusation, but what I mean is that he was recently betrayed, and most of his reactions are outburst provoked by anger and resentment as any BS who is going through the rollercoster of feelings.


----------



## ducrider

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

manticore said:


> He is not BS 20 years later using the affair as excuse to torture or manipulate his WS, he was recently betrayed and is understable to expect the fall out symptoms, you and JCD are the ones who are out of order, you are supposed to know the CWI newbie thread as bibble.
> 
> PS: Okey, maybe I over reacted with the out of order accusation, but what I mean is that he was recently betrayed, and most of his reactions are outburst provoked by anger and resentment as any BS who is going through the rollercoster of feelings.


For perspective, isn't jcd a former WS? If I'm wrong please correct me. It makes his comments valid from the perspective of the WS but perhaps not from the perspective of BS.


----------



## manticore

Thor said:


> For perspective, isn't jcd a former WS? If I'm wrong please correct me. It makes his comments valid from the perspective of the WS but perhaps not from the perspective of BS.


well, that will explain alot, honestly I have not checked his profile or story


----------



## sidney2718

JCD said:


> So...she went to a place where she is treated like a human being instead of the Wh*re of Babylon. This is a surprise?
> 
> I think a lot of "reconciling" spouses do drive away their waywards because they can't or won't let go of the bitterness and give zero hope.
> 
> Yup, she hurt you hard. You are hurting her hard. HER pain isn't real to you...just like your pain isn't real to her.
> 
> If you are done, shut your yap. Try to do this with a little dignity.
> 
> Get the paperwork and stop talking to her, particularly when neat little comments come into your head. Because I'll tell you this: you can SAY you 'tried to R' to the new perspective woman in your life but this little game playing is marking your face and your soul and most women will probably see it.


This is spot on. Reconciliation takes TWO actively engaged people. You are misleading your wife in the same way a man might seduce a woman by acting as if the relationship was serious with an intention of making it permanent.

If you are really intending to divorce her, then be as kind to her as you can be. She is and always will be the mother of you child. Get the divorce done with some kindness and grace.

As far as getting involved with the "virgin", I'd remind you that you are still married. Of course if you feel justified in cheating on your wife, even if only in an EA, then you are doing to her what she did to you. Two wrongs don't make a right. Instead it covers you with crud.

One more bit of advice, though I think it has already been mentioned: your "virgin" is a virgin for a reason. If you are looking for a future active sex life, you may be barking up the wrong virgin.


----------



## tainted

I'll just point out that playing nice will make your divorce go smooth. If you decide to file. 

A nasty divorce is the last thing you want.


----------



## footballguy89

Lots to respond to. I'll try to respond to most then later post what is new. 

My wife is not treated like a ***** at church.. the only 2 people I told are very respected and wouldn't tell a soul. If anything my wife has to be careful at the birthday party because few know but most don't. IF she is treated like a *****, it's because she told people and that's how she feels they feel.

My wife agreed to come to the prayer meeting, then I was going to go to the birthday party. Last minute she wants to go to the birthday party because another friend is going to be there. I ask if she could meet the friend another time. Not an option. When I go to prayer meeting and the guy prays for us I mentioned my sarcasm... kind of hard to continue the break up as I believe in the power of prayer. I just haven't prayed for my marriage much, as I am not sure that is what I want.

The problem with the wife skipping prayer meeting is she said she lost her faith and that helped open her up to an affair. I did ask questions early like how do you go to church every week while having an affair or how do you play with our son the next day? Her answer was I ignored it. I can see ignoring church but her coming from a messed up family, I find it hard to understand how she couldn't at all think about our kid. And if it has been 2 years since she lost her faith, it would be nice to see a few baby steps to see she wants her faith back or just say that isn't important in your life. Don't use it as an excuse if that is want you want. Maybe every six months I might ask if she has been reading the Bible, definitely not pushing it on her.

I am more than okay with people disagreeing with me and letting me know I am a jerk. When I come on here and 'brag' about the FB post, of course I know I am making myself look like a jerk. Probably posted it for those that would have liked to do it but didn't get the opportunity. Having everyone agree with me won't get me to look within myself.

My wife been raped wasn't an issue for me/us... we took thinks slow. If I was an expert I would guess maybe I fell in love with the 'wounded, innocence women' instead of the women she was right before the affair. Can guarantee I don't like anything about her dysfunctional family. Being the Christian, I took 5 or 6 years of abuse from them before I final started to fight back. I gave them too much credit, I thought once we had our kid, then would be nice or maybe catch on they risk possibly that my kid won't be that big of a part in their life. 

I don't cut my inlaws much slack as the double standard is too much. We've driven my SIL probably 7000 km in the last 7 years to go to camp, without getting a penny in gas money. Yet when my wife wanted us fly to see her parents and they tell us which airport to fly to, when I see it is 125 km from their house and if they were to drive another 125 km to the bigger airport and save us $1200, my wife won't even ask them because they won't do it. I think that is complete BS. When we only go see my parents once or twice a year, I don't like being forced by the inlaws to take my SIL and getting to my parents place Thursday night and would leave Monday afternoon on the long weekend, instead I have to leave Sunday morning to take the SIL to camp. And when they told my wife over the phone that was the plan, she says her husband might not like that plan, they yell at her and hang up the phone. Both are families at roughly the same economically... I don't like how my parents pay for our dish for the year (about $400 value) and my wife insults the gift complaining about how they didn't get us a PVR, yet doesn't say a word about how her parents haven't gotten us a Christmas gift in 7 years.

IMO, the virgin is a virgin as she is waiting for marriage and there is slim pickings in our city within our faith for her. I have more respect for myself and would not have an EA or PA during my marriage. I question whether I should be able to have one conversation with her about the possibility of us dating one day far down the road.

I am not co-dependant on my wife. I do need someone to help with my kid as leave the city at 6 am and am not back until 5:30 pm. I am expected to work OT when something breaks down, like last night, was at work until 9:30 pm... or I can be called at anytime and would need to get to work. IF I was single, it would be nice to have someone special to help me out and the reward during the year would be great vacations (like Hawaii). I believe the virgin wants a kid bad, I would like my son to have a sibling, I'm not bringing a second child into my current situation, but with the virgin, we would both be getting a need met. However, I would need to be in love with someone and married before I consider kids. 


My wife and I realized I stopped loving her 5 months ago. It wasn't easy to admit at the time, I haven't felt love for her since. I do realize that you can fall out of love with your spouse, it isn't okay to leave then. Even without an affair, it is possible to fall out of love. I would assume you stay and you will fall back in love with the person once again. I honestly felt like a week ago that my heart was out of the marriage but what this means is I can think with my head and maybe heart and decide what I want.

I am not 100% out of the marriage or given up on it, it is on major life support, haven't decided to pull the plug. When my wife mentions she had the affair because I wasn't there for her when she was fighting with her family, that is the quickest way to push me away. More later.


----------



## the guy

tainted said:


> I'll just point out that playing nice will make your divorce go smooth. If you decide to file.
> 
> A nasty divorce is the last thing you want.


Wait what...playing nice is for games. Do you think some one that betrayed you will play nice? Nice divorce is like jumbo shrimp or army intelligence... It's an oxy moron

From we're I'm sitting this is all about business and not get taken to the cleaners.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
Make no miss take this is not the same chick you married!


----------



## JCD

manticore said:


> so now, we are going to shut down users when they lash againts their WW, that is ludicrous
> 
> 
> He is not BS 20 years later using the affair as excuse to torture or manipulate his WS, he was recently betrayed and is understable to expect the fall out symptoms, you and JCD are the ones who are out of order, you are supposed to know the CWI newbie thread as bibble.
> 
> PS: Okey, maybe I over reacted with the out of order accusation, but what I mean is that he was recently betrayed, and most of his reactions are outburst provoked by anger and resentment as any BS who is going through the rollercoster of feelings.


He is 9 months into his betrayal. This is not 'recent' unless we are talking geologically. That is almost a year. I am not expecting perfection, but certainly a bit more than this.

And I am not taking him to task at 'shouting' at her. As stated, harsh words come out due to the pain. But they came out of EMOTIONAL DISTRESS and are unplanned. Doing the FB page or 'oh...I can really get her with THIS one, alleging that she's hooking up at a B-Day party..." That is NOT emotional outbursts. That is calculation. People can control calculated actions and comments. People who want to R don't...or at least shouldn't

He isn't going to counseling. He says he doesn't love her. He says he is not getting over it. He is not faking any love or affection (Fake it till you make it. It works...if you try). He is not monitoring his tone at all in normal conversation. He is not giving her any hope. He can't even offer up a prayer to change his heart or to try to help him find forgiveness.

Reconciliation takes two people to do it. The wife...isn't very good at it, but he says she's trying. If HE can see she is trying, she is trying. End of discussion.

Is HE trying? Anybody? Anybody?

He admits he is not. The Magic Reconciliation Fairy hasn't fixed his heart without any effort on his part and so he is done.

Okay...he can drag this out, or he can do it the easiER way. And while a 'cheating spouse' MAY be inclined to go scorched earth, they may NOT. But if he keeps entertaining himself at her expense, guess which way I'd lay my money?

And if he thinks she will have ZERO influence on how the kids view him, he might want to guess again and calculate what these bitter little asides may cost him down the road. My parents got divorced and I did not have half the relationship I might have because of sniping between the two sides. Is that what he wants?


And FG, I am not talking about the other people in her life treating her like the TWoB. I am talking about how YOU treat her. She was offered to go to the prayer meeting with a man who flatly tells her he doesn't love her and humiliates her with cheap shots constantly...or she can meet a friend who treats her well.

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

manticore said:


> so now, we are going to shut down users when they lash againts their WW, that is ludicrous
> 
> why don't you go and change the fall out post guide, and teach WS how they have to feel and react in a proper way after being betrayed:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
> 
> 
> _The Fallout
> *Expect your spouse to be FURIOUS and to make all manner of threats*, “I was going to work on the marriage, now I am not!!” “I cannot trust you” “You have to pack and leave!!” “You have ruined any chance you had!!” Do not let this bother you!! Just imagine that you have taken the crackpipe away from the crack head. Of course they are angry. But it will blow over. Don’t laugh, don’t fight, don't attempt to reason with them, and most of all, don’t be SCARED! Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it cannot survive an ongoing affair! The madder your WS, the harder you hit the target!_
> 
> 
> He is not BS 20 years later using the affair as excuse to torture or manipulate his WS, he was recently betrayed and is understable to expect the fall out symptoms, you and JCD are the ones who are out of order, you are supposed to know the CWI newbie thread as bibble.
> 
> PS: Okey, maybe I over reacted with the out of order accusation, but what I mean is that he was recently betrayed, and most of his reactions are outburst provoked by anger and resentment as any BS who is going through the rollercoster of feelings.


I'm no more out of order with my opinion, than you are with yours. I could address the the link, but that would be a GIANT derail. Knowing it, which I do well, does not to apply JCD's or my comment in the way you are referencing.


> Having everyone agree with me won't get me to look within myself.


That's why I posted. All you can do is look at yourself and see where my opinion fits. My feelings will not be affected if you agree, disagree or ignore my comment.



> I am not 100% out of the marriage or given up on it, it is on major life support, haven't decided to pull the plug.


This is why I posted what I did. If you keep punishing her and she doesn't understand it will make reconciliation that much harder. JCD, who I tended to vehemently disagree with before, is the one that made me change a bit on the wayward side. You have a right to your anger, I understand that implicitly. I also understand the angry outbursts. I now disagree with the "shut up and take it" some people seem to feel towards the wayward and that they deserve to be CONTINUOUSLY punished. As, he just pointed, 9 months of these outbursts is detrimental to both of you.


----------



## manticore

JCD said:


> He is 9 months into his betrayal. This is not 'recent' unless we are talking geologically. That is 270 days.



gonna be honest with you I was gonna read your post but when I saw the first paragraph I began to laugh uncontrollably from your ignorance and insensibility about the subject.

9 months is nothing in betraying time, F*ck there are OPs that after 9 months are still in withdrawal and feeling numb.

reconcilation take 2-5 years (many times take even more time) to be sucessfull, what do think happend during all those years?, yes the fall out and recuperation.

If you have read other threads you should have noticed that even the OPs that file for divorce and begin to date few monts after the betrayal, they still trigger and lash against their STBXWS.

you are entitled to your opinion as anyone but if you do it without taking in consideration the genereal knowledge of CWI on TAM you should expect answers like mine.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

manticore said:


> If you have read other threads you should have noticed that even the OPs that file for divorce and begin to date few monts after the betrayal, they still trigger and lash against their STBXWS.


Yes and in those same threads people, with successful reconciliations, talk about learning how to stop punishing their wayward spouses.

We will just have to disagree on the point about lashing out, triggering and punishing. All three can occur and again they do not have to be mutually exclusive. I am not helping so, I will bow out of our disagreement.


----------



## illwill

FG, as a kindness to both of you, pull the plug.


----------



## JCD

manticore said:


> gonna be honest with you I was gonna read your post but when I saw the first paragraph I began to laugh uncontrollably from your ignorance and insensibility about the subject.
> 
> 9 months is nothing in betraying time, F*ck there are OPs that after 9 months are still in withdrawal and feeling numb.
> 
> reconcilation take 2-5 years (many times take even more time) to be sucessfull, what do think happend during all those years?, yes the fall out and recuperation.
> 
> If you have read other threads you should have noticed that even the OPs that file for divorce and begin to date few monts after the betrayal, they still trigger and lash against their STBXWS.
> 
> you are entitled to your opinion as anyone but if you do it without taking in consideration the genereal knowledge of CWI on TAM you should expect answers like mine.


Do you believe that an R can take place with one spouse doing NOTHING to make things better?

Do you think that 9 months of not moving or improving EVEN A LITTLE BIT makes R likely?

I am not suggesting he is not still emotionally damaged. I am not saying he is not still angry. I am not saying he needs to 'get totally over it'.

I am saying that in 9 months there should be MOVEMENT...or at least frigging EFFORT.

Please indicate to me what you believe he has done to justify him saying he TRIED to R besides taking up space at home and not filing?


----------



## footballguy89

We did get sidetracked from the original question for people that struggle with triggers/D-Day anniversaries, etc.

If you could replace the night she cheated on you (her birthday) with the day you ended the marriage (her birthday a year later), would that help to erase the memories of the betrayal?

I have defended my wife on here a bit... I didn't think she was still cheating, I don't think she contacted him since a week or 2 after they slept together... but the simple facts of the story are a challenge to overcome....

Starts an EA, (a year earlier she found out her mom had an affair 30 years ago and that ended her parent's marriage, 30 years later, her dad is still bitter, best friend's dad killed himself after he had an affair and my wife knew my brother had a crappy marriage and never wanted to be like that).. the EA turns into a PA affair with a kiss on my birthday, 3 weeks later, hangs out with co-workers, including him after midnight when I went home from our anniversary night.

After confronting her, we go to MC several times. I never say anything rude or hurtful. Completely trusted her that it would stop, instead 1.5 months later turns into fooling around. Then on her birthday, sleeps with him. Then discovers that she wants me after the fact. 

So I posted here given the unique situation of her sleeping with someone once but on her birthday. And I was bang on as 2 nights ago she mentioned we are coming up to an anniversary soon. Given I completely spoiled her last year, I don't think I have it in me to do anything special for her birthday.


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## sidney2718

JCD said:


> He is 9 months into his betrayal. This is not 'recent' unless we are talking geologically. That is almost a year. I am not expecting perfection, but certainly a bit more than this.
> 
> And I am not taking him to task at 'shouting' at her. As stated, harsh words come out due to the pain. But they came out of EMOTIONAL DISTRESS and are unplanned. Doing the FB page or 'oh...I can really get her with THIS one, alleging that she's hooking up at a B-Day party..." That is NOT emotional outbursts. That is calculation. People can control calculated actions and comments. People who want to R don't...or at least shouldn't
> 
> He isn't going to counseling. He says he doesn't love her. He says he is not getting over it. He is not faking any love or affection (Fake it till you make it. It works...if you try). He is not monitoring his tone at all in normal conversation. He is not giving her any hope. He can't even offer up a prayer to change his heart or to try to help him find forgiveness.
> 
> Reconciliation takes two people to do it. The wife...isn't very good at it, but he says she's trying. If HE can see she is trying, she is trying. End of discussion.
> 
> Is HE trying? Anybody? Anybody?
> 
> He admits he is not. The Magic Reconciliation Fairy hasn't fixed his heart without any effort on his part and so he is done.
> 
> Okay...he can drag this out, or he can do it the easiER way. And while a 'cheating spouse' MAY be inclined to go scorched earth, they may NOT. But if he keeps entertaining himself at her expense, guess which way I'd lay my money?
> 
> And if he thinks she will have ZERO influence on how the kids view him, he might want to guess again and calculate what these bitter little asides may cost him down the road. My parents got divorced and I did not have half the relationship I might have because of sniping between the two sides. Is that what he wants?
> 
> 
> And FG, I am not talking about the other people in her life treating her like the TWoB. I am talking about how YOU treat her. She was offered to go to the prayer meeting with a man who flatly tells her he doesn't love her and humiliates her with cheap shots constantly...or she can meet a friend who treats her well.
> 
> Decisions, decisions...


All true, JCD, all true. But has he filed for divorce? That's the point. If he is really against reconciliation, the kindest thing to do is file for divorce. Not filing is just hurtful and serves no purpose.

Of course he may, deep inside, want reconciliation. But as we know, it takes two for that and that doesn't seem to be happening.


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## JCD

footballguy89 said:


> We did get sidetracked from the original question for people that struggle with triggers/D-Day anniversaries, etc.
> 
> If you could replace the night she cheated on you (her birthday) with the day you ended the marriage (her birthday a year later), would that help to erase the memories of the betrayal?
> 
> I have defended my wife on here a bit... I didn't think she was still cheating, I don't think she contacted him since a week or 2 after they slept together... but the simple facts of the story are a challenge to overcome....
> 
> Starts an EA, (a year earlier she found out her mom had an affair 30 years ago and that ended her parent's marriage, 30 years later, her dad is still bitter, best friend's dad killed himself after he had an affair and my wife knew my brother had a crappy marriage and never wanted to be like that).. the EA turns into a PA affair with a kiss on my birthday, 3 weeks later, hangs out with co-workers, including him after midnight when I went home from our anniversary night.
> 
> After confronting her, we go to MC several times. I never say anything rude or hurtful. Completely trusted her that it would stop, instead 1.5 months later turns into fooling around. Then on her birthday, sleeps with him. Then discovers that she wants me after the fact.
> 
> So I posted here given the unique situation of her sleeping with someone once but on her birthday. And I was bang on as 2 nights ago she mentioned we are coming up to an anniversary soon. Given I completely spoiled her last year, I don't think I have it in me to do anything special for her birthday.


Okay...I am rough on you and I apologize. Frankly, this post is getting a bit 'political' and I'm just as guilty as bringing it up. For the BS, they state that if the WS isn't willing to bend over backwards, shove a GPS up their rectum, fawn and plead and beg constantly for forgiveness, they aren't 'really trying to R'. This is an example of a BS not holding up 'his end' to R and it's a rather bitter pill for the TAM posters who assume that R failures are ALL on the WS. Here, there was never an R to begin with. I am using this sitution as an example of how R's might not work. I have nothing against you personally, though I think some of your choices are questionable.

And from all accounts, you don't seem to be trying to R as a BS. No one is demanding that from you. You don't have it in you. Okay. That's a fair and moral choice, but leading her on into thinking that you are is not moral. *We are advocating being honest.*

That she did this sort of thing on memorable days is a truly sh**ty situation and it WILL add to the triggers. I wish I could take it away but I can't

If you feel divorcing her on her birthday will help heal you or forget, you can do that. But just recall what you are doing to her: you are marking her B-Day as the day her marriage died.

The question you need to ask yourself as a man is 'Do I want to be a better person or a worse person than this person who cheated on me?" It helps you look in the mirror if you look at it that way.

A phrase that might come in useful comes from Clint Eastwood's "Hamburger Hill". "I don't mind, because you don't matter." She cheated, you can't or won't try to get over it...you really have no regard for her...why are you marking time here just for a bit of ritual? You could be getting on with the rest of your life.

Of course, these are your choices and I am only offering some suggestions and different ways to look at the situation.

I don't think it will really heal you psychologically to do it on her birthday unless you feel it's 'payback'. It's a nice icon, but it's also a cruddy thing to do to a person. Would you like your mom to die on your B-Day or Christmas? Probably not. Why do it to someone else ON PURPOSE?

As far as her anniversary goes, why spoil her when there is no future here? Take the *family* out for a nice dinner, get her a card ($2.99 isn't too much for a gesture and to keep the peace) and rent a movie you want to see from iTunes or Netflix. Sex is up to you, but if you aren't feeling it, why? This isn't to be mean and you shouldn't be. Consider it an acknowledgement of what used to be.


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## theroad

manticore said:


> WTF? this is a support forum and yes he is being kind of a jerk,


Bingo, we have a winner hear. Two wrongs do not make a right. Though three left turns will make a right turn.

Though we are not talking about driving.


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## LongWalk

Divorce your wife with civility or reconcile with a good heart.

Don't torture her. There is no point.

Your wife is naive. There is kind of charm and honesty about her dumb letter. The OM busted her because he knew she wanted love and he could not give to her. Once he turned her in she still needed that love but now from you.

Some men can never take a woman who has betrayed them back. This is a personal call. You have to chose one or the other. But regardless of your choice, conduct yourself in a way that earns you self respect. Your WW is the kind of person who may improve when she has a good partner.

As for her birthday, make some nice food and make love to her. Or tell her you are going divorce and be a good co-parent.


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