# Not sure about anything anymore



## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

I'll try to briefly summarize my story. It's hard though when there's so much history.

Wife and I met in college and got married when I was 23 / she was 24. I'm now 32 and we have 2 children (6 and 3 year olds). We both married as virgins (me because I was a devout Baptist and she because I was her first boyfriend and she was shy). I wasn't very good at talking to girls then, so even though I wasn't initially attracted to her when we met, I became attracted to her after I found out she was interested in me. Matter of fact, I'd always done that I think. I'd let girls pick me instead of vice versa, and then even though I wasn't attracted to them, I'd learn to like them too.

We had a pretty good courtship. We were both thoughtful, intelligent, and she laughed at my jokes. I could tell too that she admired me back then. The only hesitation was when we were engaged I felt the physical part (making out, cuddling, holding hands, kissing) start to wane. I went through with the wedding hoping for the best, but the sex on our honeymoon was so disappointing. We went on a cruise for a week and only had sex 3 times the whole trip. I always imagined my honemoon would be a bunny fest with a whole lotta sex. Instead we were playing bingo and board games with old people and reading books by the pool. What?!

The sex was very vanilla too. My wife told me she's never thought she was pretty. We only have sex in missionary in the dark with the lights off in our room. She says she's not flexible enough to be on top and she thinks doggystyle is dirty. We did missionary maybe once a week as newlyweds and now 9 years and 2 kids later we're doing it 1-2 times a year. She told me last year she doesn't really enjoy sex much and doesn't miss it like I do. I'm probably not the best at sex because she's my only partner, but when I've tried to use my hands she moves them away. She doesn't like giving or receiving oral either. And she doesn't trim her girl which is a big turn-off for me. She's also never initiated sex our entire marriage. Even if I go up and kiss her and rub her body a little, I still have to just about say, "let's go to the bedroom" or it won't go any further.

The sex issue sucks, but worse to me is she has trouble with any form of affection now. She doesn't like to hold hands, kiss, touch me, saying "thank you" is awkward, saying "sorry" is almost impossible, we don't cuddle, etc. I'll put my hand on her thigh in the car when I'm driving and instead of grabbing my hand she just stiffens up.

She's said there was no abuse in her childhood. Her parents were active in the life of her and her siblings, but they're not affectionate. She and her dad have never said I love you, they don't hug, they don't compliment, etc. Her dad is a man of few words and when the family rides in the car, they could go a whole trip without saying 10 words to each other. My wife's brother and sister both have never dated or been in a relationship even though they're both now in their mid-to-late twenty's. The whole family is kind of catty with each other, teasing each other. My family was pretty much the opposite. My dad never stops talking, my mom was a hugger, and we all said I love you non-stop. And my family was so proud of me growing up I'd feel embarrassed when I could tell other parents were tired of hearing about how great I was.

I've been obsessed on and off for the last few years about divorcing my wife, but my kids and fear of hurting her have kept me from doing it. I've changed quite a bit in 9 years. My first beer was at my bachelor's party (which was very tame) and now I'm comfortable grabbing a beer at happy hour and chatting with anyone and everyone at the bar. No, I haven't cheated on my wife. As much as I'd like to sometimes, I just don't think it'd be worth the stress and guilt and heartache. My W caught me trolling on a dating site 2 years ago when they sent me a spamming email in all pink. She read it over my shoulder and our marriage was upside down for a couple months. She still doesn't trust me because when my cellphone rings at night, she'll make a comment about "your gf is calling" and then she'll want to know who it was. And she's always accusing me of not telling her something.

2 years ago I gave her a long letter about my concerns in our cold marriage (we weren't being affectionate at all and I was afraid we'd grow more distant). She just deflected blame to me not making her feel loved after the letter and that's still her basic defense. A year after the letter I had a big talk with her again about the lack of changes from the letter - again she just said that marriages are like this and I was trying to change her. She said, "you shouldn't have married me if you didn't like who I was." 6 months later we went to marriage counseling for 5 sessions, but the counselor wasn't very good. Counselor had us read "the 5 love languages" but we barely talked about it and the counselor never gave us homework assingments or even made many suggestions. At one point the counselor said, "you two go home and brainstorm about ideas on how to bring back the spark." Excuse me, but isn't the counselor supposed to also provide ideas? I came to the counseling sessions over-prepared with tons of notes and things I wanted to talk about, and my wife would show up without having even read the book or thought about anything. I finally got her attention when I dropped the big D word during one of the sessions. My wife had been nagging me about having a 3rd child despite our problems so I felt I had to tell her why that was such a bad idea while I'm considering divorce.

We ended the counseling in Nov 2010 and since then I've been trying to focus on other means of happiness. I've stayed busy with my kids soccer team that I coach, watching sports on TV, doing stuff with my friends about once a week, and working. I decided my wife wasn't going to change and I didn't have the stomach to break up my family, so I just buried my head in the sand to keep my sanity. The other night while I was falling asleep she surprised me: "have you given up on our marriage? have you given up on me? I don't feel loved. I can't live like this forever." I was confused - during all the counseling sessions she'd say, "I don't know why you're upset, I thought we were happy and okay." So now she's got a strange idea that we should have sex for 30 days straight and we'll become closer. We haven't had sex in a year and now she's suggesting 30 days straight? I should be jumping for joy I guess, but I have alot of resentment and I know it'll be the same ole vanilla, get it over with sex. I told her I viewed our marriage has brother/sister marriage, a marriage of convenience now, and she now mopes around me and just acts deflated and sad.

I don't know what my question is, but I'd appreciate any suggestions. I've tried to be a good husband and father through all of this. She went on a shopping trip this weekend with our daughter, and I watched the 3 year old, coached his soccer team, played with him, cleaned up the house, did the dishes, fluffed, folded, and hung up 4 baskets of clean clothes that were sitting in our bedroom, and didn't complain about it. I do our yardwork, have a good job that pays well, we live in a big house in a nice neighborhood that feeds into a nice school. I help with the kids and housework even though she only works two half-days a week for her parents.

I feel like I screwed up my life. I got married too soon - right out of college when I had little going for me. I was too shy and conservative from my Baptist brainwashing to meet girls in college that I was attracted to. My plan had been to do my time and wait until my kids grew up before I pursued a divorce because I'm strongly for sticking out marriages like this (no drugs, abuse, or cheating) for the sake of kids, but now she's saying she wants more from me and can't take it. Well I'm basically living a lie if I try to be affectionate with her now or tell her I missed her. Our marriage has turned my heart into stone towards her. I don't think I'm in love with her anymore. I fantasize that she'll leave me for another man so I don't have to be the bad guy that breaks up our family.

What do I do?


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## ku1980rose (Sep 7, 2010)

Would you consider looking for another counselor to go to together?? Or even go to someone yourself with or without her knowledge or help. I know that for me it helps to talk to a counselor to help sort out my thoughts and feelings. That is what you pay them for. I used to see someone when I was dealing with some major depression and it was helpful just to talk to someone.

I understand the sex issue. My H does not initiate and we have had sex 3 times since getting married 8 months ago. It is difficult. It is also now difficult for me to accept any form of affection from him or give any because of the distance our lack of a sex life has caused between us. I guess you have to decide how much that factors into your happiness in your marriage.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Maybe I can post more later, but I saw some similarities in your feelings. My wife was also from a very conservative background also.

It's hard to put the finger on just where things start to go wrong in a relationship. I've always felt like such a heel for considering divorce. Her grandfather divorced her grandmother after 30 years of marriage, and the kids hated him. Still, their situation was different.

Keep in mind that some things will change if you divorce, but some of the problems can follow you if you can't begin to understand how you could've possibly pushed resolution more productively in the earlier years. This is just as much my case as yours. Gotta do some self analysis.

In my case, I grew up in the seemier side of things. A very rough background. I was my wife's first, but she was very far from that for me. Far enough that I'm not at all interested in playing the field again. Our sex life is good, but my therapist helped me see that there is no 'me' in the relationship. All of our energy was spent on her bipolar issues. Twenty years into the relationship, she didn't even know I had half brothers.

It does seem like the divorce talk has gotten her to really look at the issue, or at least to acknowledge it. Wondering if it is too little too late though.

I primarily jumped in to post at this point to tell you that once the thoughts begin to include divorce, you'll find that you become much more aggressive in pushing for a fix, so its not likely that you'll just decide to coast it out until the kids are grown.

I think that for me, if my wife were willing to address the impact of her bipolar mania, and committ to some changes in her expectations, or coping mechanisms, this could make all the difference in the world to me. But she usually just says that it is not possible for her to change, and will not discuss it. I mention this only to ask if there is a threshold of committment to change that you will accept to work on this with her? In other words, if she were to more or less say that she will not accept the status quo, and will work through whatever means she can to overcome the insecurities that drive this behavior, is there then a point where you can be content without divorce?


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Rose,

Yes, starting up IC has been an idea of mine for about 2 months but I haven't made the phone call yet. I went to IC for 2 sessions before our MC last year and my W freaked out that I didn't tell her. She didn't like the idea of me talking about her to someone else - she tried to imagine all of the ugly things I must have said about her. I thought I was okay for now, focusing on other things to stay happy, but her questioning our relationship the other night has really affected me for some reason. I'm a big people pleaser (always have been), so when she's upset it really affects me.


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Halien said:


> I mention this only to ask if there is a threshold of committment to change that you will accept to work on this with her? In other words, if she were to more or less say that she will not accept the status quo, and will work through whatever means she can to overcome the insecurities that drive this behavior, is there then a point where you can be content without divorce?


It's hard for me to think about that hypothetical because it sounds too unrealistic for me to think she can change some of the things that upset me the most. She's not sexual, she doesn't smile, we don't have fun conversations. She wants me to be sexually attracted to her despite her making no effort to boost her attractiveness. She doesn't eat well, exercise, dress up for me, wear lingerie or even a nightie to bed, smile often, and she's lazy around the house. She throws clothes on the floor, leaves plates of left over food on the table overnight, and can step over clutter on the floor for days before picking it up.

It's hard when I think about what I'm missing out on - a woman that understands her role in a healthy relationship, has a healthy sexual appetite, appreciates a good husband. Do those women exist?

Still, if she hadn't disturbed the bee hive so to speak, I was content with the status quo for now. I love my kids and my son is almost 4 and a very shy, fragile boy. On the soccer field, he's the only one on the team that just stands still on the field and watches the ball roll past him without even lunging for it. I can't leave him now; I don't think he could handle it.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

HoopsFan said:


> She wants me to be sexually attracted to her despite her making no effort to boost her attractiveness.
> 
> It's hard when I think about what I'm missing out on - a woman that understands her role in a healthy relationship, has a healthy sexual appetite, appreciates a good husband. Do those women exist?
> 
> .


My wife also wants and expects me to be infatuated with her, but there has never been a time that she says that marrying me wasn't a mistake, due to our differences in religious views. I still am, though, and I think that's half of my problem that leads me here. I finally got to the point where I could no longer blame her problems on the disease.

Do such women exist? I bet there are plenty of women asking the same question about men. Even here on this board, you can see so many good women who are feeling similar pain. Got to focus on understanding yourself, how you got to this point, and what you really want in a relationship, though. I think you know this. 

BTW - your son sounds so similar to mine. My number one lesson learned was to challenge him in new areas, while demontrating trust in him to suceed. Now, he's getting ready for college, and is a very confident person. Maybe too confident in some areas. For him, it was critical not to fit him into my own box (weightlifting and football), but to help him find areas he could excel.


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Wanted to add a key point - my wife doesn't have a sex drive at all. I asked her if she's ever masturbated and she said "not really". I think she would have said just "no" but she was embarrassed.

I really have no hope that we'll ever have a good sex life. She doesn't want it, she doesn't think about it, and when we do it, she doesn't relax enough to enjoy it. I don't think she'll seek counseling about it either because she was terrified when I even said the word sex during one of our MC sessions. She said, "I don't want to talk about that with a stranger!" So I should just masturbate for for another 15 years? Sorry, I'm really frustrated as you can see.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

> So now she's got a strange idea that we should have sex for 30 days straight and we'll become closer. We haven't had sex in a year and now she's suggesting 30 days straight?


I think she is really willing to work on things. 

It might be worth going back and trying again. your wife would have to be open to change a lot, but there is a good chance. She is moaping around because she knows she has lost you. She does care and might be willing to change. I changed. People do change.


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## lostaffection (Mar 31, 2011)

Hey hoops, thought i'd just post to say i've read this 

So many people have a similar situation, the fact of the matter is this (and why I can't tell myself the same thing I do not know).

If you don't love someone, you don't stay with them - if you had no kids/house/etc etc etc you'd leave, just like you did any other relationship before you got married.

Yes it adds more complications, but the basic fundamental reasons are the same.

I am like you, i riddle myself with the anxiety and guilt of what it would do to my sons (5 and 8) but as people tell me, you don't lose them, if anything the time you spend with them becomes even more precious and more valuable, because for them witnessing a broken marriage/relationship as they grow up, is far worse than having happy parents who put 110% love and affection into them every time they see them.

But I guess like me, you just can't commit to making that decision to go, even though every thing you've written sounds like your heart already left.

Sh*t isn't it? people tell me you can't stay because you feel guilty about leaving, what it would do to her and so on.

Well i "stayed" before when we split, and yet here I am again.

Not saying that people can't change, they can - and probably just as often as relationships with the "other woman" work out - they can too.

The fact you want her to leave for someone else, is because you're a good man, you don't want the blame of breaking up the family, the kids home, being the failing dad - i'm in exactly the same spot right now my brother


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## e.dawne (Mar 7, 2011)

wow hoops it sounds like you are a great guy!! First off i can understand you wife a bit. I understand how hard it is for guys...you need affection (i mean girls do too) but when you come from a family who doesnt talk about it, or show it, its hard to turn it around. I imagine she feels HORRIBLY embarresed. But in a marriage-you have to talk about these things. I think you've done everything right, notes, and stuff. I think in regards to the affection area, you gotta keep talking about it- if you are still interested. Im not sure if you've given up on that or not. I know its really easy to resent someone for rejecting you. I think she has to understand that affection is what you need. (its not an unreasonable request, just something she has to keep thinking about). Not to get TOO personal but i think an idea for that might be for you to- lol, see even im getting embarrassed now- you need to maybe get her a "toy" OR a book (girls are about reading, lmao) and just let her.....figure things out for herself. Just an idea. I have to say when i first read you post the beggining was really romantic, lol. I think of all the posts i have read here, yours seems like it has the most potential. If you want to fix it or keep trying- i encourage you to. I understand what it feels like to feel like you've thrown in the towel. I think (if you can and are still willing) the more you talk and discuss the intimacy issue and you do need to kinda keep on it, (coming from someone who was pretty cold herself) i think the more you keep turning toward her and trying to "help" her the more she will think that you are there for her-and the more she will try- and you could possibly come out with a stronger connection. About the housework- if you can find a way to make your "other" do more around the house-let me know!!!! All you can do is ask for more help. I know about staying for the kids. I havent left yet either because my oldest is ASD and i cant think that seperating will do any good in his life. anyways, (sorry this is so long) have you thought about maybe buying her some lingerie? i know it seems like you are doing all the work-and she might not even like it but... maybe she doesnt know...how to be attractive. lol. Let me tell you this tidbit-i bought some lingerie for valentines day-cleaned the house, bought heart stickers,made dinner, fake flower petels, everything and in the end he came home, said he was too tired, ate and went to sleep ( and yah our...intimacy is opposite of yours, lol) . I think when it comes to intimacy it comes down to being gentle and making an effort. Basically i understand you feel hurt and you want to get your needs met. I can only hope that she is the kind of woman i think she is and will come around, with wanting to "do it for 30 days straight" (thats referenced in a book by the way, lol) i think she might be willing to at least TRY, which means hope is not lost!! I just hope that you can find it somewhere to not loose hope either. GOOD LUCK, either way!!!


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your encouragement. I know, for the sake of my kids, I can't give up yet. That grass on the other side of the fence looks mighty green sometimes, but I still see a little green on my side too.  She is a good mom and at times I still feel the slightest spark, but it's just so frustrating. Sex is supposed to something fun that the husband and wife enjoy together. I mean, is there really anything better than rolling around in the sheets naked, kissing all over, and.. oh geez, i'm getting carried away here. 

Anyways, sex is supposed to be FUN damn it. Why does it have to be this awkward taboo thing that's nearly splitting up my marriage?

I'll try to let go of my resentment some, embrace this new plan of hers, and see what comes of it. I might as well, I'm not ready to leave yet. My kids are nearly 4 and 7 and I'll be [email protected] if I'm going to miss out on these years. In the past 2 weeks, I've taught my kids about flying a kite, riding a bike, tying their shoe, and my son how to pee standing up (LOL!). I know there's a piece missing in my puzzle of happiness, but I think if I left my wife there'd be more than just 1 piece missing. I don't know if that's how I'll feel in a few years, but that's how I feel now.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

HoopsFan said:


> I mean, is there really anything better than rolling around in the sheets naked, kissing all over, and.. oh geez, i'm getting carried away here.
> 
> .


A couple of things come to mind immediately : All of the above, frequently, and the phone never rings. 

Or, all of the above, and a million dollars. 

Or lastly, all of the above, and she doesn't then say, "...er forgot to mention, I have a STD. Tag, you're it."

Just kidding! I'm only saying that its a big deal.


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Halien said:


> Or lastly, all of the above, and she doesn't then say, "...er forgot to mention, I have a STD. Tag, you're it."
> 
> Just kidding! I'm only saying that its a big deal.


Sir, please stay away from my daughter in 12 years. I'd hate to have to use that emergency shotgun. J/K


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## lostaffection (Mar 31, 2011)

any update?


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

lostaffection said:


> any update?


I had a very busy weekend. Friday - yardwork, coached soccer practice, poker with work buds; Sat - coached soccer game, date night with W at a nice restaurant (no post-date whoopie); Sun - more yardwork, watched my niece's volleyball tournament, washed cars in driveway with kids in their bathing suits). I told her I was too worn out last night by the time the kids were in bed to make any sheet music.

I am starting a diet today though. I'm about 15 pounds overweight, and I think if I lose it, I'll feel healthier, more confident, and have more energy. I don't like how my beer belly looks right now.

We tried to dress up a little for our date night, but we went to a trendy area downtown and we just can't match these people's $$$$ outfits. Although I make a good living, most of it goes to our house and the kids. I realize that I'm a hypcrite - on one hand I sometimes wish my wife wore the real nice clothes that's cute and sexy, but on the other hand I'd flip out if she came home from the mall having spent $500 on a few items. I tried to make a point though of not even glancing at the young women dressed in little dresses and high heels p I guess I didn't COMPLETELY suceed if I can tell you what they were wearing). We had good conversation and laughing at the date which was cool, but we have zero romantic spark. LOL, the car ride home consisted of her telling me I needed to find somewhere to stop ASAP before her bladder exploded. Then we picked up the kids and date night was over.

One of the soccer moms gave me the type of compliment I yearn for from my wife. She told me how great I am with the kids and how I have tons of patience with them. That made me feel good at least.

Oh well, I guess I feel guilty wanting more. I have a good life and a great family, just no romance or intimacy and definitely a roaming eye that notices beautiful women everywhere (moms and not) that smile and dress attractively.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Good to hear an update. 

I was just wondering - with your wife, do you think there could be an issue where perhaps she was never taught the basics in a way that she would be comfortable wearing lingerie, or being seductive?

Not even sure if that presents a possible way to help, but I just wondered if you though it was was more of a personality trait, or lack of experience.

Without giving myself away, I'll just mention that I grew up on the east coast, but now live in an area where men and women are much more plain. My daughter had many friends who were simply never taught about fashion, or even makeup or how to fix their hair. She became popular just because she could teach her friends.

I even stand out among my coworkers. I like crisp, colorful shirts on days where it is appropriate, but was the only person in my office who wore something other than a white, tan or light blue shirts. Now, my group celebrates beach Thursdays. People get bonus points for really bright colors.


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi Halien,

You're on the money. Her mom is real critical of girls that dress like a "hoochie" in her words. She taught her girls to dress plain and not seductively. And I don't think her mom taught her much about makeup - my W picked it up on her own some, but she's very minimal with it. I wore cologne until we started dating and then stopped because she didn't like it much and doesn't wear perfume. When my wife went on a girls cruise with her friends, she got tanned, shaved her legs, and packed some flattering outfits, so I know she knows how to "work it" . But I guess it took the pressure of knowing 5 other girls were going to do the same thing to bring that out of her. Apparently, impressing me isn't worth that kind of effort.


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Update. So this weekend we finally had sex (1st time in a year) and a fight this morning.

The sex was awful. I had to grab her body and physically roll her towards me and then start kissing her and rubbing her with my hands as she laid still. She barely kissed back and even yawned and rubbed her eyes (she'd just come to bed). So I said, "are you too tired?" She said, "no.. it's okay". She didn't touch me and the kisses did nothing for me. The whole thing was over in a jiffy because she didn't want any foreplay.. just pushed me on top of her and didn't make a sound. It sucked.

The fight had to do with her once again making me feel unappreciated. For the 3rd weekend in a row, I did about 5 hours of yardwork, a little dishes, a little laundry, and picked up the house some. So I said, "aren't you glad I'm a cleaner?".. to which she says, "just because you clean up once before you go to bed doesn't make you a cleaner". Gee, thanks for that.. so loving. I stewed on that this morning and then finally let her know how I felt. She said it "really bothers her when she thinks I'm fishing for compliments." I said, "well if you gave me one every once in a while, maybe I wouldn't feel the need." I just left for work and she still hasn't apologized and I doubt she will. She can't admit she's wrong and she has to get the last word in everytime. UGH!!


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

I just had a vodka martini (at home after the kids were asleep), so I feel some pure honesty coming on (brace yourselves) ....

... the worst part of what I'm doing right now.. which is staying in my marriage for the sake of not only my kids' happiness and growth and well-being, but also for the sake of me getting to be with them every day and kiss and hug them and play with them and teach them new things constantly (I'm holding back tears fyi)... so that's why i'm staying, and i think it's a good reason...

but the really sucky part is... I miss being in love. I miss being loved. My wife says she loves me, but I really don't think she does. She doesn't ask me about my day at work, or ask me anything really. I miss how it once was with the two of us. She says it was our honeymoon period and destined to not last, but surely there's some middle ground. I will not apologize for being a romantic. I love being in love, and I miss it. In college, I once surprised my now wife, then girlfriend by playing the guitar and singing her a song. I wasn't very good at the guitar so I had to practice the song for a while. I would have climbed a mountain and crossed a desert to make to show her my love then. But now........ now is the opposite. It's so sad. I think we both make each other uncomfortable. We both feel unloved, unappreciated, misunderstood.. and I can't even communicate with her because EVERYTHING is taken as criticism.

It's painful that my most favorite things in this world (cuddling, kissing, talking about anything and everything in bed while lying next to the woman I love while not caring about anything else in the world, making love) hold no interest from my wife. But yet, divorcing right now I know is not what I want. I have a 3 1/2 year old boy and a 6 1/2 year old girl and I love both of them more than anything. (still tearing up) I'm even willing to live in a loveless, sexless marriage while i'm in my peak years (early thirties) to be with my children.

I just hope that at some point I'll have the strength and a tad bit of selfishness required to leave my wife so I won't die on my deathbed regretting that I never knew the deep love possible in a loving marriage.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Hoops I know the feeling.. when my hubby and I were first married.. well for like the first 4 years.. we were very lovey touchy huggy kissy people. It was like we couldnt keep our hands off of each other. We had moments of gazing into each others eyes and not saying a word.. just feeling that heat and love and intensity. It was fantastic back then. 

Now here we are.. married 15 years and we are lucky if we brush each other in the hallway by the bathroom. 

We married young also, I was 19 he was 21. He was my first everything, I was not his. Now he is cheating on me, because our views on sex are very different. He has become very dark in the ways of sex, mostly wanting BDSM type of things, wanting to treat me as a slave and such. I hate it, it makes me feel dirty, so I haven't had sex with him in a year. 

For Women, well for me anyway, sex is something you want to share with someone you love, its very emotional and makes you bond to someone. Since my spouse isn't doing that with me, I don't feel close or bonded with him. And the same is going on for you. 

It may be hard for her just because she doesn't love herself. I know I have feelings of insecurity, thinking I'm ugly and just gross. These things often stem from childhood, I know from my years in therapy my mom deeply ingrained my self image to be unappealing from a very early age. She used to force diet pills on me when I was 12 telling me "no one likes a chubby ass". When really it was just my body maturing and doin what it was naturally meant to do. I'm guessing this might have happened to your wife, so it makes it hard for her to be intimate when she feels so horrible about herself.

I, too, miss those days when love felt so good.

You sound like a great dad, Kudos to you for being there for them. They are very lucky to have a devoted and loving father


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Lilyana, 

Thank you for responding; it's nice to know my feelings are being heard. I'm sorry for your sadness and hope that you too can find happiness. The actions of your mom (making you feel inadequate at a young age) and your husband are deplorable.

Anyways, thank you for your comments. I appreciate your insight.


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## sdesruiss (Mar 16, 2011)

Hoops, you are a man of character and I commend your ability to "be there" for your kids. I have been married for 18 years, we married young as well. We actually had a pretty good sex life, until she had a PA, now we don't touch and certainly no sex in almost a year now. I feel for you! I also miss the loving, caring relationship we use to have. Keep it up and hope you find happiness.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Aug 29, 2010)

HoopsFan said:


> I'm even willing to live in a loveless, sexless marriage while i'm in my peak years (early thirties) to be with my children.


HoopsFan, if you'll just wait until your kids are older, to then divorce and find somebody who fills your needs, aren't you also unilaterally deciding to sacrifice/waste your wife's 'peak' years?

The best thing for your wife would be for you to divorce her now rather than when she is 10-15 years older.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

What turns your wife on? What about you attracted her to you in the first place?


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> HoopsFan, if you'll just wait until your kids are older, to then divorce and find somebody who fills your needs, aren't you also unilaterally deciding to sacrifice/waste your wife's 'peak' years?
> 
> The best thing for your wife would be for you to divorce her now rather than when she is 10-15 years older.


Hoops,

There is a valid point in this quote, in my opinion. Maybe it is possible to be connected to their lives, while letting your wife decide what is best for her. I admire your character, and have to admit that I ignored my own unhappiness for the kids, knowing that my wife would try to keep me out of their life if we divorced.

My point, though, is that I tried to maintain that inaction was not an option. I pushed and pushed for change until she finally said no more pushing. You can work on you while you decide. Take the mindset that either she'll see the change and want to do so herself, or you'll be more prepared for the next love. Not that any glaring personal issues are obvious, though. However, we all have issues that can be improved.


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> HoopsFan, if you'll just wait until your kids are older, to then divorce and find somebody who fills your needs, aren't you also unilaterally deciding to sacrifice/waste your wife's 'peak' years?
> 
> The best thing for your wife would be for you to divorce her now rather than when she is 10-15 years older.


I see your point, but I really don't see my wife remarrying after/if we divorce. I think she got married because she wanted kids and needed a man to help her have and raise those kids. Now that she's got kids, I don't think a romantic relationship is very important to her.

During counseling, we read "5 love languages." Mine were touch and words of affirmation. She struggled to find one until settling on "quality time." I asked her what that meant to her because she usually doesn't want to talk to me much (doesn't like to talk at dinner or in the car unless its about something she brings up). She said it meant just giving her company, watching tv together. I think she's like a cat that just enjoys being in the same room as people but doesn't necessarily want to interact with them. We're both loving and playful towards our kids though.


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## HoopsFan (Jan 13, 2011)

Atholk said:


> What turns your wife on? What about you attracted her to you in the first place?


I'm a little overweight, 6'0 and 205 pounds. When I lost weight a couple years ago down to 187 she thought my butt looked good in my jeans. Other than that, I have no idea. She lusts over TV celebs with big abs and muscles like Bradley Cooper and Ryan Reynolds.

She's never really said why she was initially attracted to me. I guess she just thought I was cute.. dunno for sure. It wasn't my power or money or anything.. we were in college and I had neither of those.. lol.

To start our latest sexual enounter, which was our first in several months, I had to roll her towards me in bed (she sleeps about 3 feet away from me on a queen size bed faced away) and then she yawned as I kissed her. I asked her, "are you too tired?".. her reply, "no... it's okay". And then she laid there and did very little and discouraged my foreplay so I just jumped to the conclusion. very unsatisfying.


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