# Asexual versus LD? Does it really matter?



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I was in a sex starved marriage. My wife for over 44 years was always sexually inhibited and had body self-image issues that just seemed to get worse with time. 

With the help of a great sex therapist, a Gottman's weekend retreat, a lot of great books (Chapman's 5 LL, Glover NMMNG, MW Davis Sex Starved Marriage, Schnarch Passionate Marriage, etc.) help from internet forums, and hard work we are no longer in an SSM and are having regular sex and intimacy. 

I had always viewed my relationship from the perspective of HD/LD. 

This week I read some responses directed at me on this website and discussion on threads I was participating in on Asexual people (Thanks folks!). 

It has really opened my eyes in some respects and raised questions in my mind. I now wonder if my wife was much more than LD and possibly Asexual.

I did explore some of the forum sections on the Asexual Visibility & Education Network. The discussions I saw there really didn't move me much. I also read some of the reference articles people posted. What I have read on this forum and people sharing seems to have been much more heart-felt, mature and thoughtful.

I guess I am hoping that this thread might focus on helping some of us figure out if our spouse is "just" LD or "just" Asexual and if it matters in trying to save a marriage. 

I am kind of torn, because up until this week, I felt that my wife was LD and that we had worked out with the help of a sex therapist a compromise that worked for us. I had always like the Schnarch idea that all aspects of a marriage have an HD/LD component from ice cream to sex and that being LD or HD does not mean one is broken Now I am questioning if my wife might actually be Asexual? Again, being sexual or asexual doesn't mean one is broken. 

From my perspective, the sex we are having twice of week (that we negotiated) and all the wonderful things we do for each other and how happy we make each other, sort of has me saying it doesn't matter, because whatever label is placed on our relationship (HD/LD or Sexual/Asexual) we have found a compromise that works for each of us.

I guess I can see how I might have approached reconciliation slightly differently if I thought my wife were Asexual, but I am not sure doing anything different would made us come to a better or quicker resolution of our marital issues.

So I guess my questions are 

(1) How does one spot the difference between someone who is LD and Asexual? 

(2) If in a committed relationship with someone and you want to preserve that relationship what would you suggest doing differently if you knew your partner was LD or Asexual?

My thoughts;

(1) Whether they have any sexual desire for anyone or at anytime? (they both can get aroused and allow their hard-wired biology to take over). 

(2) Not sure it really matters, as ultimately both need to change, grow, communicate and find compromises that they both can live with. Both parties need to respect the other and try to provide for some minimum level of emotional, physical, sexual and financial needs. When I say sexual needs, I mean not asking too much of the LD or Asexual person and not hurting the HD or sexual partner.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It's my opinion that few people are truly asexual. But the difference is that an asexual person isn't turned on by anyone and a LD isn't turned on by you.

You've been married a long time, is it possible that your wife was raised in an environment where sexuality was something to be ashamed of and subdued? This is the mistake man men have made for a long time.....in their quest to control their women they shame womens' sexuality until marriage but somehow they're supposed to turn into sex goddesses upon saying "I do", then their poor husbands are baffled by it. But this isn't how sexuality works, it needs to be explored and developed. When women are taught from a young age that it's something to be ashamed of that's a mentality that never truly goes away.

Does this sound like it could be your wife?


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

An LD person can have a significant amount of sexual attraction for another person, yet still not want to have sex with them.

An asexual person doesn't have sexual attraction for anyone. This usually also means they don't want to have sex period, but some do want to have sex, it is just for reasons other than sexual attraction.

Do you feel your wife experiences sexual attraction, for you or anyone? 

This is not the same as simple attraction. "That man is very handsome" is not the same as "that man makes me hot", for example. An asexual person can appreciate the beauty of others, but it is no different than the beauty of other things in the world. A sexual person (even if LD) experiences sexual attraction for some people, sometimes many people.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> ...But the difference is that an asexual person isn't turned on by anyone and a LD isn't turned on by you.
> 
> You've been married a long time, is it possible that your wife was raised in an environment where sexuality was something to be ashamed of and subdued?
> 
> ...


Great comments. Yes.

My wife was raised to view sex and sexual thoughts as sins that needed to be confessed each week. However, she assured me that the nuns at the school she attended told her and the other girls that anything a man and woman do together after marriage was fine. You are right, she just couldn't make that transition.

During sex therapy, the therapist asked my wife if she ever masturbated. She said no, why would I need to? If necessary I have a husband to take care of that.

I am sorry. Don't get me started.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> ....Do you feel your wife experiences sexual attraction, for you or anyone?


For me? I now honestly don't know. Once upon a time, maybe?

She will have sex with me. She is the one that regularly initiates sex between us. When asked once a year or so ago, why she had sex with me, she looked at me and said, because she wants to remain married to me and it is important to me. I would have preferred, "because I love you," but can respect honesty.

Sexual affection for anyone else? You mean besides Fabio Lanzoni? I don't think so.:wink2:


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> Sexual affection for anyone else? You mean besides Fabio Lanzoni? I don't think so.:wink2:


I asked about sexual attraction, not sexual affection, but I think you meant attraction in the above and just typed the wrong word, right?

What kinds of things does she say about Fabio? Like "now if FABIO walked in here, I would be down for some sex!" Or like "oooohhh that Fabio, he sure is a cutie".

There is a difference between these two statements. Asexual people can appreciate beauty, as I said. They don't feel sexual stirrings about it the way sexual people do, though. It can be difficult to recognize the difference, because an asexual person saying "ooooohhh he sure is a cutie" my seem to be saying it with a sexual slant on it, but they are meaning it literally. A "cutie" could be a baby, a puppy, their female friends, or Fabio.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> Great comments. Yes.
> 
> My wife was raised to view sex and sexual thoughts as sins that needed to be confessed each week. However, she assured me that the nuns at the school she attended told her and the other girls that anything a man and woman do together after marriage was fine. You are right, she just couldn't make that transition.
> 
> ...


It's a very difficult mentality to break, and teaching this does a real disservice to marriages. Have you guys made any attempt to find things she likes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> My wife was raised to view sex and sexual thoughts as sins that needed to be confessed each week. However, she assured me that the nuns at the school she attended told her and the other girls that anything a man and woman do together after marriage was fine. You are right, she just couldn't make that transition.


In another post you also said that your wife later claimed "but the nuns didn't know how perverted men can be".

This makes sense. If she was so sheltered that she literally wasn't aware that men put their penis in women's mouths, I can see why learning this suddenly as a new bride and adult woman, she would see it as perversion. I'm assuming the nuns did not specifically state the sex acts that occur between married people, so you wanting to do it to her felt like the most outrageous and strange idea.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

No. It doesn't matter. I want to feel you. I want to taste and smell you. I want to feel your skin. If you don't let me, I die.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I have not read all the responses, but I've known only one (possibly two, but I was too young to really know, and he was my teacher) asexual people in my lifetime. He's a man. 

I think there's a possibility that since he is also an extremely devout Catholic (actually started seminary but quit) who has somewhat of an obsession with teen boys' sports he's either attracted to kids (but not acting on it) or he is gay (and not acting on it). But, he claims he just has no need or desire for sexual relationships.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I don't think it really matters. The outcome is the same either way.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In my opinion someone that is LD is someone that at one time or another had a significant amount of desire, commonly seen in the honeymoon phase of a relationship where sex may occur at a rate of three times a day. Later in the relationship desire fades and one partner becomes LD.

An asexual person is in my opinion someone who has NEVER expressed any level of desire in their adult life. 

Badsanta


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> *It has really opened my eyes *in some respects and raised questions in my mind. I now wonder if my wife was much more than LD and possibly Asexual.


Close your eyes!

Don't overthink it!


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> I asked about sexual attraction, not sexual affection, but I think you meant attraction in the above and just typed the wrong word, right?
> 
> What kinds of things does she say about Fabio? .....


You are correct, I typed the wrong word.

She like steamy romance novels ad many use to have Fabio on the cover, before she got a kindle. I really don't know if she would be attracted to Fabio. I was just being a little silly in my response.



Faithful Wife said:


> In another post you also said that your wife later claimed "but the nuns didn't know how perverted men can be".
> 
> This makes sense. If she was so sheltered that she literally wasn't aware that men put their penis in women's mouths, I can see why learning this suddenly as a new bride and adult woman, she would see it as perversion. I'm assuming the nuns did not specifically state the sex acts........


Before marriage we we talked about oral sex, 69, dinning at the Y, etc. While the nuns probably were not too graphic, she did understand the concepts. I guess looking your fears (or a penis) when its right in front of you is different than talking about it in the abstract. 

I really think she thought she could change, but just didn't have the ability to self-soothe and work through her fears/conditioning.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's a very difficult mentality to break, and teaching this does a real disservice to marriages. Have you guys made any attempt to find things she likes?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, it creates lots of problems for lots of couples.

We are limited to two positions she can handle, but she has mastered them well and can pleasure when she puts her body and mind to it. Not much variety, but I now feel loved.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> Close your eyes!
> 
> Don't overthink it!


I do tend to over think things. Thanks


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> Yes, it creates lots of problems for lots of couples.
> 
> We are limited to two positions she can handle, but she has mastered them well and can pleasure when she puts her body and mind to it. Not much variety, but I now feel loved.


Small steps.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't think it really matters whether a spouse is LD or asexual, once past trauma and or conditioning have been ruled out or adequately addressed. Assuming the relationship in all other aspects is functioning well, being asexual doesn't give a spouse the right to withhold a significant love language. And it doesn't really matter if the asexual spouse didn't know they were asexual until well into the marriage.

The bottom line is that loving enthusiastic sex with your spouse is a reasonable expectation Of marriage. It is a significant love language for most people. As such, it is incumbent on the LD or asexual spouse to find a way to meet that need often enough to smooth their partners need.

My husband is not a verbal feelings kind of guy. He could not express his feelings for me and this was a significant need for me. We both had two choices. Learn to live with it or learn to express. I could not live with this need going unmet in my marriage so he had to learn to express himself. Had he continued to deny on the basis that he didn't know how, he was effectively deciding his need not to be challenged was greater than my need to have words of affirmation, effectively ending the marriage. 

He decided to learn how to identify and express his feelings. Although this doesn't come naturally to him, he does it because he wants to stay married.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> ....He decided to learn how to identify and express his feelings. *Although this doesn't come naturally to him, he does it because he wants to stay married.*


Well said.

My wife has learned to push herself to have sex with me much more frequently that she would want (twice a week as opposed to one or twice a month). When I asked her why she has sex twice a week with me, she explains that she wants to stay married to me and understands how important it is to me.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> Well said.
> 
> My wife has learned to push herself to have sex with me much more frequently that she would want (twice a week as opposed to one or twice a month). When I asked her why she has sex twice a week with me, she explains that she wants to stay married to me and understands how important it is to me.



And that is emotionally filling for you?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> And that is emotionally filling for you?


Not sure if your question refers to the frequency or to her response as to why she has sex with me.

At one point in our joint sex therapy, the therapist asked me, if when I 
was having sex once every couple months, would I have considered sex once a week enough. I told her that I probably would have, but I would have wanted more. So twice a week with enthusiasm on my wife's part is emotionally filing as to frequency.

As to her response of why she does it? I would prefer it if she had said she desired me that often, but I know it isn't true. I think that she would prefer sex maybe twice a month from her desire standpoint. She does love me and she knows how important sex is for me. 

One of the hard things to learn that the sex therapist helped me with was to learn to accept my wife giving me the gift of her body and her physical love. There are things that I do for my wife that I really don't passionately love to do, but that brings her happiness and joy, back rubs or foot massages going to certain kinds of movies and shows. 

So if some of the time she initiates sex because it feels good and she wants it........I love that and try to make sure she has a great time. Other times when she initiates sex but it's clear she not horny, well, I accept her love for me and her caring for me and our marriage. 

Is that emotionally filling? Yes, it is an acquired taste of a man married to the same woman for over 44 years and may make it to 50 years or more.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> One of the hard things to learn that the sex therapist helped me with was to learn to accept my wife giving me the gift of her body and her physical love. There are things that I do for my wife that I really don't passionately love to do, but that brings her happiness and joy, back rubs or foot massages going to certain kinds of movies and shows.
> 
> So if some of the time she initiates sex because it feels good and she wants it........I love that and try to make sure she has a great time. Other times when she initiates sex but it's clear she not horny, well, I accept her love for me and her caring for me and our marriage.
> 
> Is that emotionally filling? Yes, it is an acquired taste of a man married to the same woman for over 44 years and may make it to 50 years or more.



I like your attitude Young! If I shared your sentiment several years ago, I would probably be in an entirely different place, emotionally.

Mrs. Trickster has always had a responsive desire for sex as well as all forms of affection. She loved receiving massages, foot rubs, cuddling, but never reciprocated.She never said I love you, unless I said it first. She just never had the desire to say it first. It was always "I love you too". She later told me that affection felt forced.

Mrs. T was still a virgin at 25. She never had a desire for sex before I came along. I believe she is Asexual, which made me feel we had a platonic marriage for 23 years. It backfired when I tried to change a platonic marriage into a romantic and sexual one. Most of the time, I felt she tried to avoid sex and she never did much to encourage desire. We have been totally sexless now for about a year, void of all forms of affection. She seems content. The main thing she is upset about is that I make life uncomfortable for her. I treat her like a roommate now and she doesn't like that.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Trickster said:


> I like your attitude Young! If I shared your sentiment several years ago, I would probably be in an entirely different place, emotionally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is EXACTLY where H & I are. He's not liking it one bit.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Never discount the martyr complex factor. Some people want to be angry and miserable because they want to sniff the tears and feel enobled by it. You DO understand that this is the flipside of being an enabler, don't you? An enabler never says no and then whines ceaselessly about how oppressed they are. This kind of person never says yes and then spends their life grumbling you're inattentive. LD, asexual are meaningless terms. It's all the same narcissist paranoia.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Trickster said:


> I like your attitude Young! If I shared your sentiment several years ago, I would probably be in an entirely different place, emotionally.
> 
> Mrs. Trickster has always had a responsive desire for sex as well as all forms of affection. She loved receiving massages, foot rubs, cuddling, but never reciprocated.She never said I love you, unless I said it first. She just never had the desire to say it first. It was always "I love you too". She later told me that affection felt forced.
> 
> Mrs. T was still a virgin at 25. She never had a desire for sex before I came along. I believe she is Asexual, which made me feel we had a platonic marriage for 23 years. It backfired when I tried to change a platonic marriage into a romantic and sexual one. Most of the time, I felt she tried to avoid sex and she never did much to encourage desire. We have been totally sexless now for about a year, void of all forms of affection. She seems content. *The main thing she is upset about is that I make life uncomfortable for her. I treat her like a roommate now and she doesn't like that*.


Thank you. May I suggest that you and your wife see a sex therapist. 

Also my advice from having been there is that most married couples communicate their feelings and wants very very well to each other. 

By that I mean if you know she doesn't like being treated like a room mate, she knows you know it, and she is likely pissed that your are persisting.

So my advice is drop any anger or resentment. Stop looking to your wife as your only source of validation or happiness. Do tings that make you happy and proud of who you are. Do things to make her happy. Give her unconditional love. Don't try to parent, punish or covert-contract her into having sex with you.

You know she doesn't like being treated like a roommate and yet you do that? Ask yourself why are you doing something that makes her unhappy? How does making her unhappy improve your life? Then go out and try to be a better you.

Good luck.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> That is EXACTLY where H & I are. He's not liking it one bit.


I will echo my advice to you as well.

You know your H is unhappy. Why are you doing something that makes him unhappy? What is your motivation? 

Do you think continuing to make him unhappy will improve your life and if so how?

Why not try the ultimate 180? Give him unconditional love. Change yourself in ways that make you a totally fascinating and desirable woman to him. Do things that shake up his mental image of who he is married to.

Good luck.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> I will echo my advice to you as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope...I'm over it. The house is going up for sale and when it does sell, I'm out. He's been treating me like a roommate for years while I tried everything to bridge the gap. Roommates it is then.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Nope...I'm over it. The house is going up for sale and when it does sell, I'm out. He's been treating me like a roommate for years while I tried everything to bridge the gap. Roommates it is then.


Then after you end your grieving period, I hope you find the love you want.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Me too but at this point, I would rather just be alone and at peace. To get myself back.


----------



## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> Thank you. May I suggest that you and your wife see a sex therapist.
> 
> Also my advice from having been there is that most married couples communicate their feelings and wants very very well to each other.
> 
> ...


I get what you are say. I've tried ever trick in the book. Occasionally, In felt like I had BPD. I've done some very stupid things like the "open marriage contract". 

I probably lost a lot of respect from tammers from my threads. Most of which I have deleted. The threads were written my a very sad man. Those days are over! I have found a happy place for the moment without my wife. That is no longer her job. 

I feel good today.

If a spouse doesn't desire sex and is unwilling to see a sex therapist or even a MC, when that line between duty sex and rape become blurred, sex is over. 

I've accepted that.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I don't believe it makes the slightest difference. Both the LD and the asexual spouse entered into a fraudulent contract. They agreed to be something they were either unwilling or incapable of being and almost none of them were honest with their prospective spouse about their disdain and/or disinterest in sex prior to the nuptials. Most won't be honest about it after the nuptials but will give a variety of dishonest and confusing excuses for years. Both physically could perform as a spouse but neither will, so why would either be in a marriage with a normally functioning sexual person?


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> I don't believe it makes the slightest difference. Both the LD and the asexual spouse entered into a fraudulent contract. They agreed to be something they were either unwilling or incapable of being and almost none of them were honest with their prospective spouse about their disdain and/or disinterest in sex prior to the nuptials. Most won't be honest about it after the nuptials but will give a variety of dishonest and confusing excuses for years. Both physically could perform as a spouse but neither will, so why would either be in a marriage with a normally functioning sexual person?



Preach it. Lol


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> ....Both the LD and the asexual spouse entered into a fraudulent contract. They agreed to be something they were either unwilling or incapable of being and almost none of them were honest with their prospective spouse about their disdain and/or disinterest in sex prior to the nuptials.
> 
> ......Both physically *could perform as a spouse but neither will*, so why would either be in a marriage with a normally functioning sexual person?


One of the keys to a contract is a "meeting of the minds." My limited perspective with LD is that my wife at times wishes she "could perform" and at times has called herself a sexual failure. At other times to protect her own self worth, she try to justify what she just "can't" do.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Young at Heart said:


> One of the keys to a contract is a "meeting of the minds." My limited perspective with LD is that my wife at times wishes she "could perform" and at times has called herself a sexual failure. At other times to protect her own self worth, she try to justify what she just "can't" do.


I wish I was a great guitar player but I don't assume that qualifies me to be a member of Lynard Skynard. If I swore before witnesses to competently play "Free Bird" every night when I know damned well I can't, I'd be a fraud.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> I wish I was a great guitar player but I don't assume that qualifies me to be a member of Lynard Skynard. If I swore before witnesses to competently play "Free Bird" every night when I know damned well I can't, I'd be a fraud.


True, but what if you were pretty good at playing other stringed musical instruments, got Keith Richards or Bruce Springsteen to tutor you and they felt you were making serious progress in your mastery of the guitar. At that point you might see if you could audition for the band or with an opening act. 

The point is that with sex and marriage, forming the relationship takes time and practice. Few virgins have great sex the first time, but it doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a first time.

Schnarch in his book the Crucible says that Marriage is very hard work and that it is difficult for both partners, as marriage really stretches and forces two people to grow in ways that nothing else does. So unless one has previously been married and absolutely knows how far they can stretch and grow, there is no way to absolutely predict or reach a meeting of the minds ahead of marriage.

I honestly believe that my LD wife felt she could and would change some of her inhibitions after marriage. Until she was confronted with the reality of the change she didn't know. Until we are married, we really don't know how the "crucible of marriage" is going to allow/force us to change ourselves.


----------

