# how does guilt consume a wayward spouse?



## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

I have been living with my partner for seven years and have had very many happy times - we are not married but it didn't mean we were less committed emotionally. Around a year ago, I started having suspicions that he was having an affair but there was always some almost plausible explanation ....then came the abusive comments and the distance.....things became unbearable at home until I found a hotel receipt at the end of November. I packed his things and made him leave......not out of anger, but because i simply couldn't cope any more and was desperately upset.. 

He again came up with semi plausible excuse and promised to prove it to me that he wasn't at that hotel.....then wrote many loving emails saying how he was lost without me and wanted to be home.....

Fast forward to March and still the promise of proof but nothing forthcoming and I was becoming more and more impatient and cold towards him. During all of this time, he had spent Saturdays/Sundays with me and I continued to receive loving texts and emails, flowers. Then I dug deeper myself and finally got the proof that he had been at the hotel with someone - I looked her up and called her. 

I was lucky on one level as she was very honest with me and we went through everything. She was completely shocked as he had said he was single and he had lied about his age....she is 20 years his junior and he had lied continuously to her as well. The night of the hotel bill was in fact their first time...but they had met up for meals after work and bars for nearly the entire year and had been friends. He had continued seeing her albeit infrequently whilst supposedly desperate to move home.

The discovery of this has hit me very hard and there are days I just cannot function. A month on, the pain is still intense but after being asked to try and forgive and think about a second chance, I decided the pain of losing him out of my life would be even worse. And so we started to talk.

And this is where I am now even more confused..... from that minute of me saying I would try...he claims to be so overwhelmed with guilt and shame that he is struggling to re engage. He is convinced I will never trust him (it will be a long journey yes but I'm confident i can if we get therapy) and just does not respond with any reassuring or loving words, just reasons why it will be difficult. The affair is definitely over. Is this a normal pattern as all i seem to read is wayward spouses doing everything they can to return to their wives/partners. He says he wants to be home but needs time to work out how to engage. It all seems to be about him ...STILL! I have ended up being the supportive one and am now wondering whether I am kidding myself here and perhaps its just him not wanting to be back but will not tell me. or can extreme feelings of guilt and shame do this?

I should also add that his mother died the day i found out and he has also been dealing with his grief over that.

any help would be really appreciated as i feel i am going mad!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You need to be in counselling for you. Are you in counselling?


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

yes i started last week.....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*What guilt? 

Your cheating SO, like most any adulterer, vehemently "wants his cake, and to eat it too!" Suffice it to say, blatant disrespect, lying and gross deception are the preeminent and unconscionable cheaters mantras!

The only remorse that he is truly displaying is that he has been literally caught with his pants down, and continually lies to you about it greatly in order to sustain the status quo of having a plate with his name on it at your table! The evidence has more than spoken!

Kindly kick his a$$ to the curb and find yourself a kind, decent man who will ardently love and respect you for the woman who you truly are!*


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ws don't usually have much guilt


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I agree with Arbitrator. Read his post about 1,000 more times.

It seems your boyfriend was having all his mid-life crisis fun with a youngin' until YOU threw a monkey wrench in the works and screwed it all up for him by talking to his girlfriend and she found out what a true dirt bag he REALLY is. Lying to you, cheating on you and on *top* of it, lying to HER and claiming to be single just to get himself some action on the side.

This guy has hit an all-time low in his life - in fact, he dug a crawl-space *UNDER* his lowest point in life.

And now that his affair is over - not because HE wanted it to end, but because *you* caught him and told his OW what a liar he is, he's suddenly wanting a "2nd chance?" I wouldn't give this guy the time of day, much less reinvest in a deplorable person like this.

And here you are all eager to get into therapy so you can find a way to swallow the HUGE **** sandwich he's served up to you on a silver platter. Why don't you trust your OWN judgment of seeing him for what he REALLY is and *accepting* the fact that he's about as toxic as a human being can get? Why do you need a therapist to talk you *into* finding a way to accept the atrocious disrespect he's continually heaped on you for a whole year?



> I have ended up being the supportive one and am now wondering whether I am kidding myself here and perhaps its just him not wanting to be back but will not tell me. or can extreme feelings of guilt and shame do this?


Of course it's ALL ABOUT HIM. Always was, always will be.

Someone as low as this doesn't know what the hell guilt or shame IS. What a steaming boatload of manure THAT is. It sounds as though he completely emotionally disengaged himself from you a while back, and he's just having a hard time trying to find it again after having invested a year of his emotions and energy into the young woman he conned. But you're the only game in town for him now so he's going to try. Letting YOU think it's all "guilt and shame" sure sounds a hell of a lot more *noble* than the truth, so that's what he's going to continue claiming it is and just about any quack therapist will take that and run with it, validating his bull****. What a con artist.

Where was all this supposed "guilt and shame" every single time he lied right to your face? Where was it for the last YEAR every time he lied to you or made up a lie in order to get out of the house and go spend time with his OW? Where WAS that mystical guilt and shame *then*?

Personally, I wouldn't invest 5 more minutes into this snake oil salesman. He's *SHOWN* you who he is - you need to believe him.

I see that you posted this same thing on the SI Reconciliation board. Since you're anxious to reconcile with this guy, they'll all happily encourage you to stay with a cheater and learn how to eat a steady diet of **** sandwiches for the rest of your life. They'll also tell you all to get therapy because they think it's the magic cure for *everything* that ails you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

chillymorn69 said:


> Ws don't usually have much guilt


*Their jaded, self-serving psyches are most adept at hiding any trace of "the guilt!" Or so they think! Just ask my RSXW!

Even when confronted for it at judgment by God, they would still fiercely deny the act, and continue with their unconscionable lying to Him, just as they did to their fellow man!*


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

abbie666 said:


> I decided the pain of losing him out of my life would be even worse.


This is false.

Guilt does not consume the wayward, it only consumes you until you either become smart enough to dump the cheater, or wounded enough that you are forced to separate yourself from him. 

Either way most of us end up in the same place. Divorce. 

Reconciliation is the destiny for a few, but is rarely worth it.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Unfortunately, your boyfriend is likely mourning the loss of his AP rather than wallowing in his guilt. It's called an "affair fog" and what waywards go through when they are cut off from their supply of ego kibbles.

And the OW dated him for a year but never went to his house? Sorry, she knew something was up.

Since you are not married to this guy, I'd leave today. Even if you were married, I'd tell you the same thing. If you had kids, I'd give you the checklist from Surviving an Affair, where you expose the affair to close family and friends to bust up the "fantasy" and the chances of the affair rekindling and going underground. But since you are not married, the benefits of exposure don't really apply. Therefore, if you stay with this guy, you'll have to live with the fact that a single text from his AP will rekindle feelings and start the mourning process all over again, or increase the odds that he will resume the affair, taking it further underground.

I don't see this relationship going the distance, whether you decide to stay or not.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, divorce this "predictable" man.

Speaking as an un-Moderated Astrologer.....the signs are all there. He was under the influence and he did not resist. 

His mother died the same day that you discovered his affair?

The fourth to the seventh afflicts. She lost her life, her son lost his partner.

And you Dear, lost your husband to adultery.

Pray tell, is he the second born of this mother? This is not necessary for the finished cake. But it would be the frosting on it.


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## queenmary (Apr 15, 2017)

I find myself in the same boat. I found out 2 weeks ago that my husband of almost 25 years is cheating on me with a co-worker (17 years our junior). I am currently in therapy but he refuses to go and says we are done (but he still loves me and doesn't want another man to hurt me). 

My friends tell me it will get better and the pain will end but it just hurts so bad there are days that I just cant function. I went from being a happy person to being miserable and consumed with 'where is he' 'what is he doing' and lots of other thoughts. The nights are the hardest (as I'm not even living in our home). 

I believe that thru therapy and time we could get past this and build our relationship stronger but after our last discussion, it's clear that he is so consumed with guilt that HE is the one who cant try to make the move towards reconciliation. 

If you aren't in therapy, I would highly recommend it. It has helped me but i still fight the loneliness and pain. I read in another post something about a book called "His Needs Her Needs". I'm going to try to find it today.

I wish you much luck in your relationship and whatever decision you decide.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

And it will be about him for a long time... so in that time you need to love yourself more.

Not just "I need to be patient while he sorts himself out" more... but "the trust broken and pain I am feeling from having this in my life is not good for me, tears me down, and is not worth being hurt again and again so I need to let go" more.

While in counseling, talk about why we hold on to the things that hurt us... it may be an awakening that serves you well as you evaluate your "present" in all things.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

thank you - the hardest part for me was he asked for another chance and then backtracked.....i agree with Jessica however that they are in 'affair fog' for quite a while usually and this blinds them. 
I know everyone is right in saying I should just move on.....but its easier said than done!

i wish you luck too - hopefully your husband will come to his senses


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

thank you Emerging Buddist - very wise advice and yes, at 51 i'm very anxious of being on my own, even at the expense of staying with someone who has hurt me.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

Sun - yes.....the second of four children!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Abbie, 'affair fog' is just another self-soothing term a betrayed spouse uses to explain why their cheater is acting like an arrogant, classless ass-clown.

Truth is, it's not some magical 'fog' at all. It's the sad fact that he IS an arrogant, classless ass-clown.

I've had the misfortune of spending some time with a few of these types in my past. That's why they're in my past.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

abbie666 said:


> thank you Emerging Buddist - very wise advice and yes, at 51 i'm very anxious of being on my own, *even at the expense of staying with someone who has hurt me.*


But will likely hurt you again. 

51 is not an issue. If you take care of yourself physically and go about your life with a positive outlook, you'll have a lineup of interested men. 

Good thing is you are not married. Get out now, you'll get over it soon enough and look back as it being a great decision.

On the other hand, staying with him you'll eventually look back at that decision being not so great.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

abbie666 said:


> thank you - the hardest part for me was he asked for another chance and then backtracked.....i agree with Jessica however that they are in 'affair fog' for quite a while usually and this blinds them.


He will continue to be in the Affair fog for as long as he is in contact with the OW. Look, unless he's cut all possibility of contact with her, you will be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your relationship. 

He's already given her a year of your relationship. 10 years will go by and before you know it, you'll be 61 and still dealing with this.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

abbie666 said:


> thank you Emerging Buddist - very wise advice and yes, at 51 i'm very anxious of being on my own, even at the expense of staying with someone who has hurt me.


51 years young?

Doors open and close for all reasons... we cannot find the love we should if we keep it locked with the one we shouldn't.

Choice my friend, it's all us.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> He will continue to be in the Affair fog for as long as he is in contact with the OW. Look, *unless he's cut all possibility of contact with her, you will be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your relationship.*
> 
> He's already given her a year of your relationship. 10 years will go by and before you know it, you'll be 61 and still dealing with this.


Good point, except that she'll be looking over her shoulder even if he cuts all contact with her. He'll just start with another one, he's certainly capable.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

abbie666 said:


> She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!




His outlook changed because he can no longer deny or lie about the affair. With that said he is too shallow and weak to do the hard work he will have to do. Now you know, you exposed him to OW and he is realizing his fantasy is forever changed, unless he doesn't have to do what is right with you. This is why he sits in the fence deciding what it is exactly that he should do.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

abbie - I think some people respond differently under pressure to how we would prefer. But I also think that how they are in such a crisis tells us a great deal about them and their priorities. 

I am a BS myself. And I can say that you have many things to work through yourself in order to even think about having a meaningful, fulfilling relationship with this man. Reconcilation is hard work - for both parties. And if your partner is all focused on himself, on how sorry and sad his life is (and maybe even how much he should be ashamed about his actions) then he doesn't have a lot left over for you. And you are going to need a lot. If your partner is not desperate to save your relationship, if his focus is not on your pain rather than his own, then you are not starting your journey off under favourable winds. 

The one thing that I have seen over and over again on this forum is that successful reconcilers (the ones who may be scarred by their partner's infidelity, but who have emerged from it stronger, wiser and more sure of their place in the world then they were before) get themselves to a place where they CHOOSE to remain with their WS. They do not stay out of NEED and loneliness or the fear of starting over again. Believe me, we all understand that fear. I wrestle with it often.

I'm going to recommend that you hold off on deciding what to do about your partner, until you're ready to make that decision - whatever way it goes. FWIW, I agree with many of the posters here that he doesn't sound like he deserves either your forgiveness or your effort. But, ultimately this is your decision to make. 

But, right now, start living your life for you. Find meaning for yourself in the things you do. Re-connect with friends and interests that bring you joy. Cook food that you like. See the movies that you enjoy. Plan your life so that you don't need him to be happy. When you shift the source of your contentment away from him to yourself, then you can also be in place to choose wisely, rather than out of desperation.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

abbie666 said:


> She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!


Significant to whom? It wasn't significant enough to him to keep him from dating other women. 

Like I pointed out before, it's highly likely that he's mourning his other woman, not paralyzed by guilt. I have to ask, and I mean this respectfully: Why would you stay with a man who only stopped cheating on you after his other girlfriend dumped him? And if he's as successful at getting you to forgive him, don't you think he's going to try the same with her? After all, she's the one who got away. 

I'm not saying this to hurt you. I'm saying this because this is how it seems to me. Get out. You're 51...you have another 2 decades to enjoy dating and life. It's not that much time.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

abbie666 said:


> She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!


Hi @abbie666, 

I was a disloyal spouse, so I want to explain something to you from a disloyal spouse point of view. He is not paralyzed by guilt. Think about it. When a person REALLY WANTS something, deep down, they find a way to do it ...even when they know it's wrong or they can't afford it or whatever. So when a person says they "can't" what they mean is that they do not want it, and so they are going to come up with a reason to not do what they don't want to do. 

When I was cheating, my Dear Hubby spoke to the OM and spoke to me, and I was ready to end it and really, deep down, wanted to stop. So you know what I did? I didn't sit around for weeks moping and paralyzed. That same day I deleted Facebook and chat programs and email addresses--any way that we had been in touch were IMMEDIATELY deleted and I made sure Dear Hubby knew, and could see, and confirmed that everything was gone. I moved my computer screen so that it faced in a direction so he could ALWAYS see it--so anything I'm ever writing, he can see it any time he feels like. I don't "minimize the screen" EVER because I do not hide things from him--he is welcome to be part of my life and know my thoughts. He is INCLUDED. 

And yep, I felt deeply ashamed of myself and like I was eating some crow, but you know what? It was okay because in real life I acted poorly and deserved it--not self flagellation but reality meant that to build trust, I had to start at the bottom and work my way up, right? 

So my point in all this is to somewhat explain what True Repentance "looks like." It doesn't look like sitting still and doing nothing. It doesn't look like "paralyzed with guilt." It looks like taking ACTION. It looks like being afraid to tell the truth but doing it ANYWAY. See if you are not seeing action, then what you're seeing is someone who a) does not want to feel the painful consequences of their own choices, and b) does not have the courage to say "no" out loud. But actions speak louder than words--and his actions right now are very clear: I don't want to act in a loving way toward you. I don't want to be held responsible for my actions. I don't want to reconcile.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I felt lots of guilt the first time I cheated. Swore I never would do it again. My wife forgave me and I cheated 3 more times that year knowing that she never once mentioned a divorce. After that she decided that I was not going to change from the poly person she knew I was long before we even met, so she joined me in some groups sex that led to her falling in love with her best girlfriend who was part of our marriage for 30 of its 44 years. 

I know the guilt thing and nothing more emboldened a cheater than knowing that his or her spouse is afraid to divorce or leave them. The married women I dated had been all caught before, went through the guilt trip but, when you see that it has no serious consequences, the guilt goes away. I have been cheated on and cheated. I have been poly for most of my adult life too. So I know the unnatural chains of monogamy and the freedom of poly. I know how it feels to cheat and how it feels to be cheated on. 

It does get easier the next time. The problem is that a person's past behavior is a pretty good indicator of their future behavior. There was a good article on the CNN website this week. It is amazing how so many people accept a form of relationship that fails 50% of the time rather than try something that may save the marriage. You can read the article here:

Rethinking monogamy today - CNN.com

The problem is that it takes an very long time to regain trust and even when you do, it will never be the same as it was at the beginning. You will be forever suspicious of him, bring it up in arguments and he will grow to resent it over time. There are no winners when one partner cheats. I was lucky in that my wife did not want to be monogamous either. She was a virgin and curious about sex with others. Then she started to have a desire for women as I already did I. We both thought that it was crazy to try to live in a marriage structured many thousands of years ago, in a time when the reasons for monogamy had a real purpose. So we restructured our marriage to fit us and it thrived for 44 years. It should be noted that between us there were less than 10 outside lovers, with 4 in the second year of marriage, over our 44 years together. That is less than many married people I know who cheat have, in just a few years of marriage.

Not trying to sell you on my lifestyle because you need the right mindset and emotional control to make it work. I just cannot understand why so many rather go down with the ship rather then find another ship to stay afloat on. Sex with another during a marriage is only the terrible sin it is perceived as because we say so. No matter how advanced we think we are, we still cling to some aspects of marriage being an ownership of each other or at least the ownership of physical pleasure of each other. 

Hope you work it out. I never loved my wife less when I was with another women and the same goes for my wife. We always held each other and our marriage above all else and it worked for us. What I do not like about cheating is the lying and deceiving that it forces you to engage in. The sex part does not bother me as I never felt that my wife's sexual pleasure belonged to me. It is hers to do with as she wishes, as long as I have her heart.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

abbie666 said:


> She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!


It is actually very common for a cheater to have an exit affair and burn all the bridges with the left behind. that is what your partner was doing and you foolishly listened to your heart when it should be your logic that guides this terrible journey his selfishness threw you into. 

Guilt my bouncy behind! You are not behaving according to his sordid plan. He wanted to string you along until he was ready to set nest elsewhere. You threw a couple of monkey wrenches by telling his Ow and by wanting his cheating, undeserving arse back.

He does not love you! He will not get that love back. You taking him back will only cause him to further get away from you emotionally. You can't win a war that was lost a while back.

Let him go. He will not love you again, but will indeed disrespect you even further. 

Stop the pain now, get your self respect back. An exit affair is very different from any other affair. When your WS commits this type of affair, you relationship is dust. It is just that you weren't told and he has a long journey of detachment ahead of you. 

You can't compete with that. No battles to be won when the war is already over.

I speak from experience, set yourself free.


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

It doesn't - unless they are truly remorseful. I hate say it, but there it is.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

queenmary said:


> I believe that thru therapy and time we could get past this and ....
> If you aren't in therapy, I would highly recommend it. .


Therapy is all well and good, there's a time and place for it. 

I can tell you for a fact that in most betrayals therapy is not a good substitute for a good divorce lawyer. 

The best thing I ever did to "therapy" my dignity back was to aggressively pursue a divorce and put space and time between me and my betrayer. 

There are many therapists making good money off betrayed people by keeping them in limbo relationships.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

abbie666 said:


> I have been living with my partner for seven years and have had very many happy times - we are not married but it didn't mean we were less committed emotionally. Around a year ago, I started having suspicions that he was having an affair but there was always some almost plausible explanation ....then came the abusive comments and the distance.....things became unbearable at home until I found a hotel receipt at the end of November. I packed his things and made him leave......not out of anger, but because i simply couldn't cope any more and was desperately upset..
> 
> He again came up with semi plausible excuse and promised to prove it to me that he wasn't at that hotel.....then wrote many loving emails saying how he was lost without me and wanted to be home.....
> 
> ...



You are married to a very selfish man.

You need to focus on yourself, get counselling for yourself, build yourself and your self esteem up. When you do this you may discover that you can live without such a man in your life.

Not only did he have an affair, lie to you about it, treat you terribly before you kicked him out but now he expects you to help him pick up the pieces.
To my mind his apparent guilt is nor remorse, it is still all about him! He broke it so he must fix it and you have to stop being so co-dependent and make him responsible for the damage he has done. If you do not you will end up resenting him in the long term.

I think he is just biding his time, you are plan B. Get out while you can. If he really wanted to fix it, he could.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

I think you have a perfect opportunity here my Lady. 

1. you are not Married to this cheater so leave him. 

2. he is/was abusive towards you. You dont want to be in relationship like this one and especially have kids with person like him. He will not be a good Father and Husband trust me. 

If you think you can change him you are verry wrong. 

Think forward 15-20 years and your life with this man!!! It is not looking good,right ?

Stay strong.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

If someone were capable of feeling guilty could they cheat?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

abbie666 said:


> thank you - the hardest part for me was he asked for another chance and then backtracked.....i agree with Jessica however that they are in 'affair fog' for quite a while usually and this blinds them.
> I know everyone is right in saying I should just move on.....but its easier said than done!
> 
> i wish you luck too - hopefully your husband will come to his senses


I think he asked for a second chance to see if you'd still be there for him. You jumped at it, and now he's like...meh, I don't know. 

I can almost guarantee that if you go no contact with him, he will blow up your phone morning, noon and night. I've dated these types of guys who are always playing endless head games, and the only way they end, is for you to end them. 

I wouldn't stay with this guy, I'd go no contact, because THEN, you will heal. No contact means no texting, no emailing, no facebook, no contact of any type. It means cutting out friends who talk about him non stop to keep the drama going, too. It means finding yourself again, and the only way to do that is to go no contact. I really hope you stay true to yourself.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

abbie666 said:


> I have been living with my partner for seven years and have had very many happy times - we are not married but it didn't mean we were less committed emotionally. Around a year ago, I started having suspicions that he was having an affair but there was always some almost plausible explanation ....then came the abusive comments and the distance.....things became unbearable at home until I found a hotel receipt at the end of November. I packed his things and made him leave......not out of anger, but because i simply couldn't cope any more and was desperately upset..
> 
> He again came up with semi plausible excuse and promised to prove it to me that he wasn't at that hotel.....then wrote many loving emails saying how he was lost without me and wanted to be home.....
> 
> ...


Oh hun, you have made a grave mistake. The question is why didn't the potential guilt not make him stop. You should not be supporting him he should be supporting you! There is so much better out there for you. He is not the catch you think he is. The guilt talk is just a buffer to string you along. Unfortunately. Yes people are really that cruel. And yes they can do that right under your nose. Most of us here have had it happen. Most people in life have had it happen. 

The primary key for a successful long term relationship is character. This man has shown you he has none. Please think long and hard about that.



> I'm very anxious of being on my own, even at the expense of staying with someone who has hurt me.


This is what you really need to work on. The fear is making you settle for something that is going to cause you great pain in the end. Understand this kind of man, his lack of character leaves you in a very real position of being on your own even later in life. Or how about if you get sick. Do you have any confidence he will step up for you? Sadly you are putting your trust into someone who lied to you for a whole year. This is like moving into a house on a movie lot. It's just a facade, opening the door leads to a parking lot. 

If you really work on being single and strong you will be OK I promise. Sometimes it better to be alone then with someone who abuses you. You are only 50 not dead. Your life is not over. You need to have some courage though. Nothing good in life comes without risk. Besides all that as long as you are spending all your emotional energy on this man you will never have a chance to find someone good and decent. 

Some kind soul link this woman to Love Shack's Affair Partner's page so she can get a real idea of the kind of person she is dealing with. I can't even go near that place.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Abbie, 'affair fog' is just another self-soothing term a betrayed spouse uses to explain why their cheater is acting like an arrogant, classless ass-clown.
> 
> Truth is, it's not some magical 'fog' at all. It's the sad fact that he IS an arrogant, classless ass-clown.
> 
> I've had the misfortune of spending some time with a few of these types in my past. That's why they're in my past.



Your name fits you. Speak the truth!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

abbie666 said:


> She has cut all contact with him....he lied about his age and she was very angry with all the lies he told her too..... seven years is a significant time to be with someone and he is going to counselling to understand why he acted in the way he did...... i simply do not get why he is seemingly paralysed by this guilt instead of grasping the chance to work things out.....not after all the emails and texts I received. Me finding out for sure about the cheating changed his whole outlook!


Because he is lying to you. It's not guilt. He is a liar. That is what cheaters do, they lie. You know this it's just too painful for you to admit it. Isn't it time to see this for what it is even if it is very hard. OP this man is not a good man. He is a manipulator, he did it to you, and he did it to her. He would still be doing it to her but she had the good sense to move on. He is still doing it to you because you are letting him.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Abbie, 'affair fog' is just another self-soothing term a betrayed spouse uses to explain why their cheater is acting like an arrogant, classless ass-clown.
> 
> Truth is, it's not some magical 'fog' at all. It's the sad fact that he IS an arrogant, classless ass-clown.
> 
> I've had the misfortune of spending some time with a few of these types in my past. That's why they're in my past.


You give excellent advice, and I wish more betrayed spouses would stop giving all kinds of excuses to why their partners are cheating, and just follow your advice!


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

Hello, thank you everyone for all your replies, they have been hard to read but have forced me into a reality check on this. It's clear he isn't reinvesting in this relationship, for whatever reason. Beyond hurt at moment but appreciate everyone taking their time to help.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

Quick update ..... Since writing this post, his affair remained over however he has not shown any increased effort to re engage. He asks me out for dinner perhaps once a week and texts every now and again but he constantly says he is struggling to find the path back and that he is disengaged with everything and everything in his life after the death of his mother 2 months ago. Refuses to hug me even and admits to being very angry with me (?!). He does not seem to get it that I am hurt and we only ever seem to talk about him. Finally, on Friday, he told me he thinks he has depression as he just wants to be on his own and cannot even go shopping without panicking and wanting to be away from people. He was shaking and needs his safe haven...... He will not go for help and I have no idea whether this is another lie. I finally get it that our relationship is over and that he has messed with my mind. However I still do not understand why he was begging to come home until the day I found out for sure, when he then distanced. I guess all of this is something I will never get answers to! So after Friday, I decided to go no contact, I have to get myself well again. He sent a message Saturday but I didn't reply - this made me feel good for a little while but now it's a lonely road!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

abbie666 said:


> Quick update ..... Since writing this post, his affair remained over however he has not shown any increased effort to re engage. He asks me out for dinner perhaps once a week and texts every now and again but he constantly says he is struggling to find the path back and that he is disengaged with everything and everything in his life after the death of his mother 2 months ago. Refuses to hug me even and admits to being very angry with me (?!). He does not seem to get it that I am hurt and we only ever seem to talk about him. Finally, on Friday, he told me he thinks he has depression as he just wants to be on his own and cannot even go shopping without panicking and wanting to be away from people. He was shaking and needs his safe haven...... He will not go for help and I have no idea whether this is another lie. I finally get it that our relationship is over and that he has messed with my mind. However I still do not understand why he was begging to come home until the day I found out for sure, when he then distanced. I guess all of this is something I will never get answers to! So after Friday, I decided to go no contact, I have to get myself well again. He sent a message Saturday but I didn't reply - this made me feel good for a little while but now it's a lonely road!


This guy reminds me of George Costanza on Seinfeld. Sometimes George would go to GREAT lengths to lie to a woman in order to avoid being with her instead of just being honest with her. That's what your boyfriend keeps doing - coming up with more and more feeble and outlandish, ridiculous reasons for why he can't be with you.

The simple truth is, he doesn't *want* to be with you. 

Not because he's 'racked with guilt,' and not because he's 'depressed,' not because of his mother's recent death, not because he fears his cheating created 'too much damage to overcome,' and not because of all the other lame garbage he's thrown your way these last few months.

He's not coming home because he doesn't want to.

You don't realize it but he's done you a huge favor. Anyone capable of sinking to the *lows* he's sunk to isn't WORTH keeping in your life. One day, you'll realize that.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

Yes i finally understand he doesn't want to be with me but it's been me these past few months saying we need to make a decision and he has been the one prolonging it. And before I discovered for certain, he sent over 50 messages and lots of emails all begging to come home!iAny ideas on how a person can forget absolutely everything we ever did over 7 years?! He says he cannot remember anything more at all! I'm just struggling !!


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

abbie666 said:


> Quick update...
> 
> Finally, on Friday, *he told me he thinks he has depression as he just wants to be on his own *and cannot even go shopping without panicking and wanting to be away from people. He was shaking and *needs his safe haven*...


Now he's depressed, needs his safe place. He sounds like a real Buttercup.

All just more lies... the truth is he got caught, busted. He knows since your not married, no kids, no baggage, he can just walk away and disappear and... "all better now". 7 years is a long time, but be thankful that you dodged that bullet. 

Time to rip-off the rearview mirror and let Buttercup be a distant memory.

BTW, the affair that's caught is rarely the first.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Enough with this nonsense. You need an adult.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think it's very common to just 'forget' long periods of committed time with SO's when the party is over. For some people, when the love is over, it's over. They put the memories in some box that says the SO is 'someone that I used to know.'

Your ex was a dog with a bone before you proved his cheating. He wasn't letting go of you as long as you were willing to see him as a reasonable, respectable prospect. It wasn't you personally that he wanted - he just didn't want to lose something that he had. He wasn't giving up the bone. Once you knew for certain about his lying and cheating, he could dispense with this charade.

The guilt excuse is just another charade. As others have said, he doesn't want your relationship anymore, but hasn't been man enough to cut the cord. First he strings you along acting like he wants back in, and then hits on the 'guilty' excuse to keep you at bay once you appear to have bought all his previous crocodile tears.

A common coward's way out is to say, 'I've hurt you so much that I fear you will never get over it, so it's better that we split,' or 'I'm so consumed with guilt that I can't see us working together as a couple anymore.' These are just code for 'I really don't want to reconcile, but don't want to sound like the POS in all of this. I know that I burned the house down, but don't want anyone to know that I'm not willing to even try to rebuild it.'

The man's a coward and you deserve better.

And 51 isn't too old to 'dump a cheater and gain a life.'


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

abbie666 said:


> he told me he thinks he has depression as he just wants to be on his own and cannot even go shopping without panicking and wanting to be away from people.... I still do not understand why he was begging to come home until the day I found out for sure, when he then distanced.


He's the very definition of unstable. You will be too unless you ditch this loser. Don't try to understand the non-understandable, just get away from him. Permanently.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Malaise said:


> If someone were capable of feeling guilty could they cheat?


Yes. Guilt comes after.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

abbie666 said:


> thank you - the hardest part for me was he asked for another chance and then backtracked.....


I was always vulnerable to apologies and requests for more chances. I realize it sounds crazy but I was. Therapy was the single best help I received. I needed therapy before the divorce I suppose. Ha ha Today I'm well adjusted content.

Best wishes to you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

abbie666 said:


> Quick update ..... Since writing this post, his affair remained over however he has not shown any increased effort to re engage. He asks me out for dinner perhaps once a week and texts every now and again but he constantly says he is struggling to find the path back and that he is disengaged with everything and everything in his life after the death of his mother 2 months ago. Refuses to hug me even and admits to being very angry with me (?!). He does not seem to get it that I am hurt and we only ever seem to talk about him. Finally, on Friday, he told me he thinks he has depression as he just wants to be on his own and cannot even go shopping without panicking and wanting to be away from people. He was shaking and needs his safe haven...... He will not go for help and I have no idea whether this is another lie. I finally get it that our relationship is over and that he has messed with my mind. However I still do not understand why he was begging to come home until the day I found out for sure, when he then distanced. I guess all of this is something I will never get answers to! So after Friday, I decided to go no contact, I have to get myself well again. He sent a message Saturday but I didn't reply - this made me feel good for a little while but now it's a lonely road!


Abbie, stick to your no contact, the pain will dull in time. Your ex sounds like a right piece of work, it is all about him, regardless of what he did to you. He sounds selfish and self centered, you do not need this kind of person in your life, there is someone out there who will treat you with the respect and love you need. You should take it one step further and tell him you no longer want to hear from him, you are done. Tell him exactly how you feel, how he cheated on you, how he broke your heart, how he lied to your face, how he was never remorseful, how he blamed you, how he kept you hanging, how it became all about him. He could be a narcissist. Get away as fast as you can. Rely on the help of your friends and family and guaranteed 12 months from now this will be a distant memory.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

abbie666 said:


> Yes i finally understand he doesn't want to be with me but it's been me these past few months saying we need to make a decision and he has been the one prolonging it. And before I discovered for certain, he sent over 50 messages and lots of emails all begging to come home!iAny ideas on how a person can forget absolutely everything we ever did over 7 years?! He says he cannot remember anything more at all! I'm just struggling !!


You are his Plan B until a Plan A comes along and he does it all over again.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

Thank you Hope, he wasn't just my 'boyfriend'! We owned a house together and were very much life partners - I have nothing to feel sinful about!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Ok. Now, about your cheating husband (I am just going to call him your husband), you do know that all this crap about feeling guilty is just another way for him to keep the focus on HIM, right? You REALLY need to kick him the hell out and let him know how you really feel. If - IF - he deserves R with you, kicking him out will let you know that. His actions will prove it - he will want to do ANYTHING to get back with you. If he isn't willing to literally do anything, then stay far far away from him.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

Absolutely! Yes! His mother dying put me on a path of having to be 'kind' instead of just being true to my feelings and he has taken advantage of that. All our conversations are about him, never how I'm feeling. So now it's no contact and I have to toughen up. Thank you


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You will never have answers.

He forgot because you were just the other woman to all his other women. Nothing special to him. 

Be strong. Be well.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

Quality ............

My response to you is this - so many people have taken the time and effort to respond to my thread and to try to help me. They have tried to help because although I'm a stranger, they have recognised another human being in need of support, someone who is going through an incredibly tough time and doing everything to try to understand and get past everything. I appreciate their help and advice more than you can possibly understand.

None of their posts are insulting and whether 'Christian' or not, are full of empathy and concern. Your post is none of the above.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

deleted


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator notice:-*

A number of posts have been deleted because they were inappropriate and threadjacks. 

There is a section for religious debates. And this isn't it.

Other posts were deleted because they quoted the deleted posts or in order to tidy the thread.

No more threadjacks, please.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

Day Seven of NC and I just received this from him! Very stressed as sounds ominous! 

Hi, another week gone, time just goes. I would like to catch up at some point to chat, when would be good? x


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

abbie666 said:


> Day Seven of NC and I just received this from him! Very stressed as sounds ominous!
> 
> Hi, another week gone, time just goes. I would like to catch up at some point to chat, when would be good? x


What did you receive from him?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I keep seeing the heading and the voice in my head keeps saying

IT DOESN"T!


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

So .... The day I received that text from him, I had the AP call me out of the blue using a withheld number ! She apologised (!) for calling me but said my ex partner had been acting weird again (!) cancelling a couple of dates with her etc!! She asked whether he had been with me - he had, it was a couple of occasions when he had taken me for lunch. So, it transpired she hadn't know. We were trying to resolve things these past three months and they had not stopped texting daily and meeting up too!! I feel so incredibly battered by all the ongoing lies - he had said he had no further interest in her and hasn't been in touch! - and the devastation that it really is now all over. He thinks he might like to be with her (!) and had finally told me that he hasn't any hope for us. I wish he hadn't put me through the last 6 months of hell, I am destroyed! It also shows she doesn't trust him already!!!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You guys have no kids right? So there is NO REASON either he or his AP should have the right to talk to you. BLOCK them. BOTH of them. What they do and who they do it with shouldn't matter to you ONE IOTA.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

abbie666 said:


> So .... The day I received that text from him, I had the AP call me out of the blue using a withheld number ! She apologised (!) for calling me but said my ex partner had been acting weird again (!) cancelling a couple of dates with her etc!! She asked whether he had been with me - he had, it was a couple of occasions when he had taken me for lunch. So, it transpired she hadn't know. We were trying to resolve things these past three months and they had not stopped texting daily and meeting up too!! I feel so incredibly battered by all the ongoing lies - he had said he had no further interest in her and hasn't been in touch! - and the devastation that it really is now all over. He thinks he might like to be with her (!) and had finally told me that he hasn't any hope for us. I wish he hadn't put me through the last 6 months of hell, I am destroyed! It also shows she doesn't trust him already!!!


CBC ... cheaters being cheaters. It's what they do. It's who they are. It's folly to try to understand them or reason with them. They are what they are. 

You have been gifted a glimpse of cheating reality. Now take that knowledge and go forth and live your life happily. You have been set free. You possess insight that is difficult for others to obtain, now believe it, use it, remember it. 

Better to have gotten this lesson late than never. The time will come that you will rejoice in being rid of this guy.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

They may feel guilt, but not enough to stop.

In the beginning of an affair the wayward may be more attentive, buy gifts but as the affair goes on this will stop.

People who generally are caught up in an affair, rewrite the entire relationship to justify their relationship with someone else, less guilt. 

-I was the other woman. 

The woman my husband was with, he made her sound like a monster. Stark raving mad lunatic. They weren't married, but were together for 7 years.

She didn't take care of their kids while he worked. He would come home to a messy house, kids hadn't been fed all day. He said they hadn't slept together in a while. I assumed a while meant months. She cheated on him all the time . He couldn't stand her, but stayed with her because they had 3 children together. I never once heard one good thing about her. 

Shortly after we started he moved out. I fell in love with him.

Fast forward to today-

Married almost 20 years. I have been with him my entire adult life. We met when I was 18, he was 28. I now question his honesty about his ex, now. I am seeing a lot of the signs he described with her when he met me. I've caught him in a few lies and he keeps right on lying.

Most recently a coworker- under a males name that is female. He referred to this person as male. Text messages, phone calls. Anyway i have a thread about it. (More then meets the eye?)

I am pretty sure he rewrote his entire relationship with her to justify it to me WHY he would. I am also pretty sure she found out about me and kicked him out, instead of him leaving her for me. 

For me I have trust issues to begin with. An affair is a deal breaker for me. Why cheat and not just leave first. That is the deal, always has been the deal. And given the way our relationship started. We started off wrong to begin with. This is not how you start a relationship. I was young and dumb. I definitely wouldn't start anything with anyone given the same circumstances, now. Karma, maybe


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

abbie666 said:


> So .... The day I received that text from him, I had the AP call me out of the blue using a withheld number ! She apologised (!) for calling me but said my ex partner had been acting weird again (!) cancelling a couple of dates with her etc!! She asked whether he had been with me - he had, it was a couple of occasions when he had taken me for lunch. So, it transpired she hadn't know. We were trying to resolve things these past three months and they had not stopped texting daily and meeting up too!! I feel so incredibly battered by all the ongoing lies - he had said he had no further interest in her and hasn't been in touch! - and the devastation that it really is now all over. He thinks he might like to be with her (!) and had finally told me that he hasn't any hope for us. I wish he hadn't put me through the last 6 months of hell, I am destroyed! It also shows she doesn't trust him already!!!


A friend of mine started an affair, eventually left his 2nd wife to shack up with her. His AP left her husband and they got married shortly after the divorces were complete. 

Neither of them trust each other at all. They are never apart for more than an hour at a time. It's not because they enjoy each other's company that much, both are paranoid the other will cheat. They obviously aren't a happy couple yet they have wrecked marriages, friendships and family to be stuck together.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

abbie666 said:


> So .... The day I received that text from him, I had the AP call me out of the blue using a withheld number ! She apologised (!) for calling me but said my ex partner had been acting weird again (!) cancelling a couple of dates with her etc!! She asked whether he had been with me - he had, it was a couple of occasions when he had taken me for lunch. So, it transpired she hadn't know. We were trying to resolve things these past three months and they had not stopped texting daily and meeting up too!! I feel so incredibly battered by all the ongoing lies - he had said he had no further interest in her and hasn't been in touch! - and the devastation that it really is now all over. He thinks he might like to be with her (!) and had finally told me that he hasn't any hope for us. I wish he hadn't put me through the last 6 months of hell, I am destroyed! It also shows she doesn't trust him already!!!


Please stop holding on to this toxic man like he is Superman. He's not he is just a very selfish POS. There are good men out there. You need to detox or your life isn't going to get any better. You need to believe you deserve better. You do!


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

abbie666 said:


> So .... The day I received that text from him, I had the AP call me out of the blue using a withheld number ! She apologised (!) for calling me but said my ex partner had been acting weird again (!) cancelling a couple of dates with her etc!! She asked whether he had been with me - he had, it was a couple of occasions when he had taken me for lunch. So, it transpired she hadn't know. We were trying to resolve things these past three months and they had not stopped texting daily and meeting up too!! I feel so incredibly battered by all the ongoing lies - he had said he had no further interest in her and hasn't been in touch! - and the devastation that it really is now all over. He thinks he might like to be with her (!) and had finally told me that he hasn't any hope for us. I wish he hadn't put me through the last 6 months of hell, I am destroyed! It also shows she doesn't trust him already!!!



I'm so very sorry (((((((hugs)))))))

The best thing will be to dump his ass. You deserve so much better. In a year you will be glad you did. I know its easier said then done, believe me. 

So many people, (myself included) don't listen to themselves. Instinct is there for a reason, so many people chose to ignore it and bury their head in the sand.


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

I know.... it's just all the lies that leave me feeling blindsided ....mixed with an ability to get me and everyone to feel sorry for him....and then the pain of the cheating.

Am currently on Day 8 of no contact after I sent a message telling him to leave me alone.....when does this get easier and the no contact relief kick in?!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Please stop holding on to this toxic man like he is Superman. He's not he is just a very selfish POS. There are good men out there. You need to detox or your life isn't going to get any better. You need to believe you deserve better. You do!










[/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG]


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> [/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG]


Where is Richard Pryor?


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## abbie666 (Apr 15, 2017)

I'm not sure whether I should start another thread but the original notes are all on here.....

So - I am now Day 22 into NC, enforced by me after he said there is no hope for us. He also said he might like to be with his affair partner.....I told him I wanted nothing more to do with him and his lies.

I have been strong in not contacting but it has been hard because : 

He called my mum in tears to ask how I was ??????
He dropped in to see my mum the first week of NC - twice?!
He then texted me saying it would be good to talk
He texted again to say concert tickets id ordered had arrived
He dropped in again to see my mum at our house this week on thurs.... then again friday (for 1.5 hours!) then again on SAturday to do the garden for 5 hours!!

My mum is 82 and not able to be rude.....WHAT is he playing at?!!!!!! He asks how I am but doesn't say anything else about me

I have NOT responded at all or got involved!!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@abbie666

You are wondering what he's playing at. I'll summarize for you: he wanted to fool around with OW and have you as a Plan B in case that didn't work out. You spoke with OW and not only messed that up (somewhat) but also took away his Plan B. So it's all about HIM. HE feels lonely. HE didn't get what he wanted. HE hurts. HE is confused.

He asks your mum how you are because he wants to be back in control of you OR at least be in your life enough to manipulate you.
He drops by to see your mum to see if you're interested in him and he can still pull your heartstrings.
He texts to "talk" because he wants to relieve HIMSELF--it has nothing to do with comforting you.
He texts about concert tickets because he's holding out some bait hoping you'll nibble and he can hook you again. 
He dropped by Thursday and Friday and Saturday to try to worm his way back into your life. 

Now to make this a little easier for you, here's what it will sound like when he actually really has changed and is ready to possibly truly reconcile:

He will RESPECT YOUR REQUESTS to not contact you, even though it's hard for him.
He will respect your family and leave them alone, even though he misses them. 
He will concentrate on YOU and helping YOU and supporting YOU
His actions will change (not just empty words and promises) and he will ACT as if you are important.
He will say right out loud that he committed adultery and accept personal responsibility for any consequences, without blaming you or saying you "contributed"
He will go out of his way to show you he is acting honest, and of his own accord he'll INCLUDE YOU in his phone, his social media, his chatting, his gaming, his email or any of the other stuff he previously hid from you.
He will go to counseling OF HIS OWN ACCORD and do the work to face his demons. 
He will make absolutely no demands whatsoever--no demands "of you" and no demands "to reconcile"

See right now, he's feeling some pain from his choices. He thought he'd be able to have you for the bills and the stable at-home person...and have her for the "thrill" on the side! Instead, his choice to invest some of himself in her has cost him...and he does not like having to pay the price for his own choices! So he's struggling to get you back under his thumb "the way things used to be." Not that he was a controlling abuser--don't get me wrong--but rather to have you back in the role of ___ so he doesn't have to feel pain. 

Make sense?

Please let him struggle. The fastest way for him to learn is to have to wrestle with it. Please focus on YOURSELF and your own growth and your own life and self. Focus on becoming a stronger, more intelligent, and less emotionally entangled. The idea is not to become utter independent but rather to become an individualized individual.


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