# Let Her go?



## OverTheTop (Feb 12, 2021)

First time poster. Here is a bit of our back story. My wife and I have been together since our late teens, early twenties (currently early forties). We were both virgins and each other's first. I cherished the fact that we were each other's first, and we would only have one sexual partner our entire lives. After about a year of dating, we had a big fight and she moved out for about a month. We reconciled, got married, have 2 great kids. However, about 7-8 years ago she finally confessed that during our separation, she slept with a guy twice who she was talking to while we first started dating and ran into him when she moved home. Needless to say, I was devastated to find this out. I didn't get angry at her, or any of that. It just made me extremely sad. When we reconciled she came to my house and was crying terribly. She said she only wanted to be with me. She was crying because she had slept with him, but she didn't tell me about it then and I have had some anger that she didn't tell me this before we got married. She insisted that it was a mistake but didn't want to tell me because she didn't think I would want to stay with her and get married. My younger self would have left in a heartbeat, but my older mature self was able to step back and look at it for what it was, a mistake that she has not repeated.

However, we started having some issues after our second child was born and we became very distant to each other. During this distance I let the devil get into my head and starting thinking about her sleeping with this guy and not telling me about it, which made me angry, upset, etc. I made a very bad choice, I started talking to women online, and talked to one woman for a couple weeks before deciding to go on a weekend trip with her (told my wife was business trip). We ended up having sex one time, and in all honesty it was terrible and felt completely ashamed about what I had done. Almost to the point when I got home I wanted to kill myself and hope my wife would never find out. She ended up having suspicions and I confessed to her. About the same time as my affair (couple months after mine) she admitted to also meeting with a guy from her high school reunion, texting/sexting him and kissing him but no sex (she said she wanted to have sex with him but after she found out about him being with nearly 30 other partners she wanted no part of that). Deep down I only had my affair because I felt cheated out of one of the things I admired most about our relationship, that we had only been with each other sexually. I was upset because she knew what it was like to have sex with someone else and not me. No excuse what so ever to do what I did, and I take 100% responsibility for it.

We decided to give us another chance and go full in, renewed our wedding vows, and have been getting counseling. This has been going on for the past couple years (just started counseling a couple months ago, agree should have went RIGHT AFTER my affair confession but I had the belief (was wrong) that a counselor was going to tell her to just leave me and move on, and she would be better for it. Hindsight being 20/20, after I found out about her and the other guys I should have went and talked to someone, it probably would have kept me from having an affair. Right now I would say we are in a pretty darn good place. However, she admitted to her individual counselor that she still has trust issues. She still cannot look me in the eyes when we kiss or make love. Our sex life goes from really good highs to lows. She said the sex is good but lacking intimacy due to the trust issues. She says she has had trust issues with males her whole life disappointing her (her dad primarily, not abuse but just not a good father at all), and myself..

Here is my dilemma I am facing. I love my wife more than anything, but I know I made the mistake. She says what she did before we were married shouldn't matter as much because we were not married and we were on a break and what I did is much, much worse because we were married and I broke our vowels. I love my wife so much, that I am willing to walk away from a pretty good thing right now if there is even a CHANCE that she may never trust me again. I love her enough to let her go and meet someone else whom she will have a clean slate and no trust issues. Am I crazy for thinking this way and considering letting her move on to find true, trusting happiness again? Or do I stay in it, and keep building the trust back (been working very hard on it for the last couple years). I just do not want her to look back in another 20 years and say I love you but do not completely trust you. That would break my heart that she gave up on finding that missing trust and stayed with me. I just don't know what to do, don't know if I am crazy. I don't know if I should leave for a few weeks and see how she gets along without me, I just do not have any good ideas. I do not want my happiness to effect her long term happiness, I love her too much. I appreciate any questions or advice on this. My counselor said this is a decision I need to make. My wife wants us to keep working on it but I am scared to death that she may never fully trust me again and miss out on an opportunity while she is still young enough to start over with someone with trust.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

How long ago was your affair?


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## OverTheTop (Feb 12, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> How long ago was your affair?


3 years.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ok, I asked because affairs can take 3-5 years at least to recover from.

This is tough because while what you did is much worse she also married you under false pretenses, and from what you've said her hands haven't even been clean during the marriage.

So here are 3 questions for you?

Do you trust your wife?

Does she want to stay married to you?

How long ago was her little kiss thing?


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## OverTheTop (Feb 12, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Ok, I asked because affairs can take 3-5 years at least to recover from.
> 
> This is tough because while what you did is much worse she also married you under false pretenses, and from what you've said her hands haven't even been clean during the marriage.
> 
> ...


I do trust her. I believe what she did before we were married was a mistake. I didnt know why she was crying when we reconciled but I know she truly was genuine. Since our vowel renewal she has given me zero reason to believe she has done anything with another man. No chatting, texting, etc.

She says she wants to stay married and begs me not to give up on us that she isn't giving up. I just fear that the trust will not be regained. I know it will not be 100% again but with my job I travel a lot and don't want her to have in the back of her mind something is going on every time I am gone.

Her kiss with the guy was March 2018. My affair was Dec 2017.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks for the details.

Did she know about your affair when she kissed the other guy?

I'm trying to understand the dynamics and the chain of events. If she didn't know about your affair when she kissed another guys that's much different then if she did because then it may have been payback.


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## OverTheTop (Feb 12, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Thanks for the details.
> 
> Did she know about your affair when she kissed the other guy?
> 
> I'm trying to understand the dynamics and the chain of events. If she didn't know about your affair when she kissed another guys that's much different then if she did because then it may have been payback.


She thought I might had been messing around or doing something I shouldn't but didn't know at that point I had actually had an affair. I actually caught her talking to this guy on facebook messenger right after my affair but she said it was a guy from her high school reunion and that he was gay.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

The simple answer to your thread title question is "heck, no!" There is a more complex answer which involves communication, introspection, trust building exercises and a lot of sex.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

If you want to leave the marriage, for you, go for it. You don't get to decide what your wife wants or can/cannot handle, though. You have already made decisions that she didn't get a say in (so did she). Don't allow your guilt to let you make more. If you want to stay married and keeping working on this, and she does as well, then trust that. 

The truth is, your wife will never trust you the same way she used to. She probably also won't trust another man the same way she would have before. That's what infidelity does. 

However, I have doubts that your wife is being honest with you about how many times she has cheated. Chatting to a guy and saying he's gay? Come on. With her history of lying and cheating that's just not believable. You say you trust her... maybe you should be trusting her a little less.

PS... It's _vow_ renewal, not vowel.


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## OverTheTop (Feb 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> The truth is, your wife will never trust you the same way she used to. She probably also won't trust another man the same way she would have before. That's what infidelity does.
> 
> PS... It's _vow_ renewal, not vowel.


Thanks, good advice. Guess in the back of my mind it would be hard to 100% trust her or trust another woman completely too just like her not being able to trust my replacement 100% either. Sounds like a lose/lose deal no matter which way I go. Maybe better to stick it out for the kids sake as I would hate to gamble on an unknown at this point and wreck what has been a pretty darn good and stable life for them.

I do question and have doubts about other unknown cheating by her. Around 2005 we lived in Texas and a guy she worked with had a thing for married women (low hanging fruit he called them) and she did go to his place once while I was out of town. She said was just hanging out with co-workers at his place but always wondered if something else happened. I blatantly asked and she said no way, but who knows.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

OverTheTop said:


> Maybe better to stick it out for the kids sake


Nope, don't stay married (or "stick it out") for the kids sake. Either stay together because you want to be together, want to do the work needed, and want to be all in, or divorce.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I dont agree with her that her cheating didnt matter as much, especially as she has very recently cheated again albeit with 'just' kissing(if that is the case), you have both broken each others trust. Being that you have children I would do all you can to rebuild the trust and love to keep the family intact for their sakes. I do think though that she needs to recongnise the hurt that she has caused as well, especially that before she cheated you had been each others one and only. 
After affairs things will never be the same, but they can be good again I am told and if you are both willing to carry on working on the marrige then go for it.


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## OverTheTop (Feb 12, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree with her that her cheating didnt matter as much, especially as she has very recently cheated again albeit with 'just' kissing(if that is the case), you have both broken each others trust. Being that you have children I would do all you can to rebuild the trust and love to keep the family intact for their sakes. I do think though that she needs to recongnise the hurt that she has caused as well, especially that before she cheated you had been each others one and only.
> After affairs things will never be the same, but they can be good again I am told and if you are both willing to carry on working on the marrige then go for it.


Diana7, thank you for your suggestions. Faults and all I am atill deeply and madly in love with her. She is beautiful and lights up .my smile when she sees me. It is sad it has come to this but I think she still loves me too (not sure if she is in love with me or just loves me.) I hope and prey we make it but that little doubt keeps nipping at my heels. I want to make it better than before, better intimacy, better trust etc. I miss are old bedroom performances thoigh


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

OverTheTop said:


> My younger self would have left in a heartbeat


There is the cornerstone of this whole marriage. She lied to you and took away your agency to decide. The marriage was built on a lie and the foundation was rotten from the word go. This is squarely on your wife's shoulders.



OverTheTop said:


> She says what she did before we were married shouldn't matter as much because we were not married and we were on a break and what I did is much, much worse because we were married and I broke our vowels.


No, just no, while i do not condone what you did, what she did in willingly tricking you into a marriage is so much worse. In reality you would have left in a heartbeat, had you known and were it not for her lies, you would have found happiness with someone else. She has no leg to stand on.

If she doesn't get her head out of her backside and see that her lies and deceit was the cause of this whole debacle, I would advise you to move on and YOU find the clean slate, because you never deserved to be in a marriage based on lies.

About her just kissing the other man and spending time at the house of the known cavorting co-worker while you were away. She slept with them, short and sweet. She's a known liar and everything about what you know about her interactions with these men screams betrayal and lies. She is a far worse cheater even after getting married than you ever were.

Stop allowing her to gaslight you into guilt. You were honorable enough to confess the full extent of your affair to her, she doesn't have integrity enough to come clean to you.

[Edit 2021/02/14 07:45 Z+2: Fixed spelling mistake in word know -> known]


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

OverTheTop said:


> However, about 7-8 years ago she finally confessed that during our separation,


Why did she confess and how did it come about?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Many do really, marry their soul mates.
Ah, they be Fate Mates.

Often times they become toll mates, with each burdening the other with a truly-shared sin.
Initially, unbeknownst to each other.

Whatever dynamic that brought the two of them together, also led them down similar paths.
Couples read each other, much more than anyone would imagine.

Any action, even if it is hidden, is read subconsciously by the other.
Partners often follow a hidden script, written for two, not one.

It is said that if one partner cheats, the other gets a gut feeling that something is wrong, something bad has occurred.

Commonly, that gut feeling may manifest as having doubt in their spouses fidelity. 

It also might become a signal for the BS, to themselves cheat, not knowing their partner had already committed this betrayal.
Whatever external force that led the one to cheat, is unwittingly mirrored (in kind) by the other.

Such fates, linked for good, for nil.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

OverTheTop said:


> Thanks, good advice. Guess in the back of my mind it would be hard to 100% trust her or trust another woman completely too just like her not being able to trust my replacement 100% either. Sounds like a lose/lose deal no matter which way I go.


You _can _trust women (and women can trust men), but the trust has to be earned and built over time. And when you build that trust, you need to trust them until they give you a reason not to. 

There are a lot of cheaters out there, and there are a lot of people who don't cheat, even though they might be tempted. No sense in trying to figure out which group there is more of, just accept it as something you need to figure out when starting a new relationship.



OverTheTop said:


> Maybe better to stick it out for the kids sake as I would hate to gamble on an unknown at this point and wreck what has been a pretty darn good and stable life for them.


I don't think "sticking it out for the kids" is the best choice, except maybe in some limited situations. 

If the kids are almost all out of the house, *and* you can be civil with eachother, then it makes sense. 

If there's a long way to go, and already a lot of resentment, conflict, and mutual infidelity (it's bad for kids to see all that)... rip the band aid off and move out. or tell her to move out. You're not doing the kids any favors by making everyone in the house miserable. 

If you even think divorce is a possibility, get a recommendation for a good family law attorney, and see if you can pay for an hour consultation, and get them to give you a summary of how divorce would likely play out for your family in terms of residences, custody, and finances. Don't let them push you to sue if you're not ready (and don;'t hire an attorney who would do that).



OverTheTop said:


> I do question and have doubts about other unknown cheating by her. Around 2005 we lived in Texas and a guy she worked with had a thing for married women (low hanging fruit he called them) and she did go to his place once while I was out of town. She said was just hanging out with co-workers at his place but always wondered if something else happened. I blatantly asked and she said no way, but who knows.


You can go crazy thinking about this stuff. I wouldn't spend any time on it. Accept that she was unfaithful, which is what counts, not how often she may have been. 

And I agree with what others have said: don't let her try to win any moral contests here by claiming her infidelity wasn't as bad as yours; that's all irrelevent. You both cheated on the other and lied to the other. You both breached the other's trust and maybe made it impossible to ever trust them again. 

If she can't accept that, and is still trying to skirt responsibility for her actions & put the blame on you, then that's even _MORE _reason not to trust her again...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OverTheTop said:


> First time poster. Here is a bit of our back story. My wife and I have been together since our late teens, early twenties (currently early forties). We were both virgins and each other's first. I cherished the fact that we were each other's first, and we would only have one sexual partner our entire lives. After about a year of dating, we had a big fight and she moved out for about a month. We reconciled, got married, have 2 great kids. However, about 7-8 years ago she finally confessed that during our separation, she slept with a guy twice who she was talking to while we first started dating and ran into him when she moved home. Needless to say, I was devastated to find this out. I didn't get angry at her, or any of that. It just made me extremely sad. When we reconciled she came to my house and was crying terribly. She said she only wanted to be with me. She was crying because she had slept with him, but she didn't tell me about it then and I have had some anger that she didn't tell me this before we got married. She insisted that it was a mistake but didn't want to tell me because she didn't think I would want to stay with her and get married. My younger self would have left in a heartbeat, but my older mature self was able to step back and look at it for what it was, a mistake that she has not repeated.
> 
> However, we started having some issues after our second child was born and we became very distant to each other. During this distance I let the devil get into my head and starting thinking about her sleeping with this guy and not telling me about it, which made me angry, upset, etc. I made a very bad choice, I started talking to women online, and talked to one woman for a couple weeks before deciding to go on a weekend trip with her (told my wife was business trip). We ended up having sex one time, and in all honesty it was terrible and felt completely ashamed about what I had done. Almost to the point when I got home I wanted to kill myself and hope my wife would never find out. She ended up having suspicions and I confessed to her. About the same time as my affair (couple months after mine) she admitted to also meeting with a guy from her high school reunion, texting/sexting him and kissing him but no sex (she said she wanted to have sex with him but after she found out about him being with nearly 30 other partners she wanted no part of that). Deep down I only had my affair because I felt cheated out of one of the things I admired most about our relationship, that we had only been with each other sexually. I was upset because she knew what it was like to have sex with someone else and not me. No excuse what so ever to do what I did, and I take 100% responsibility for it.
> 
> ...


Here is a secret, once you are cheated on you don't completely trust anyone ever again. Whoever you are with, the person that cheated on you or someone else. And that is not a bad thing that is just plain wisdom from experience. She is not going to trust you and most likely then not neither is the next one. What you are really describing is the loss of innocent love. You only have that with the first person you love and that is unrealistic. Part of this is just maturing and the reality of the world we live in. You had already lost yours, but you lost that FROM her when you cheated. It's a loss and it is very rare. Neither one of you will ever love or probably ever have that kind of love again. That is NOT a reason to divorce or stay married because it won't change.

In reading your post you are like a lot of other high-school sweethearts, you don't have context to know better. It seems a lot of times this inexperience hurts people with that dynamic. This is one example of that, in fact I think a lot of your thinking kind of shows that. No offense.

Besides that though it sounds like you guys have a lot of issues, a lot stemming from being together so long. I have to say the more I have read the more I I have grown to believe high school sweethearts is a very difficult dynamic to make last, particularly into today's culture. You also have no context to know if your relationship is good or not. Maybe you kind of know you are unhappy but you have just been together so long it's all you know. Or maybe you have a the best you are ever going to get but since you have no context you mistakenly believe there is better.

One thing is, your wife should not act like she is an innocent party or that she didn't start this dynamic. No she didn't cheat on you but she did lie to you and marry you under false pretenses. She knew that a lot of the appeal of marring her was that you were each others one and only and she didn't tell you that wasn't true anymore until after you were married. The dynamic of not being honest was a part of your entire marriage from the beginning, and she did it because it gave her more options. This was a terribly selfish choice. That to me is just as bad as cheating. Now people who don't value being each others first will discount this in their ignorance, they always do, but you have every right to see this as a betrayal. Sounds like she waited to tell you until after you had a kid therefore solidifying your status. She is not a saint, and it's pretty lame of her to pretend like she is, if that is what is going on.

Again the problem from her end at first wasn't the cheating it's marrying you under false pretenses. You even say your younger self would not have married her, well actually that would have been a wise choice, look at all the problems it has caused. Besides her betrayal, you couldn't handle it, and that is the kind of thing that would be difficult for most to, there is a very big imbalance when only one person has one partner, your wife knew this and it's why she lied. If she didn't think it was a big deal she would have just told you the truth. 

Now I am not going to attribute your affair to that though. The affair you had stems from only from a lack of character. You had a right to be very hurt and upset, even rethink your options and end the the marriage but you chose to act out in the worst way. That's only on you. I am not going to shame you at all for the pain you feel about her lying about this guy simply because she married you under false pretenses and lied about it for years. If you had told me you knew and married her anyway then I would say you have no leg to stand on.

Then she cheated on you with this other guy, supposedly they didn't have sex but she did cheat emotionally and with pictures. You would be unwise to trust her given all her history. Again neither one of you has been a saint here. I think your wife is a liar, or at least honesty and her have a difficult relationship. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a lot more that you don't know. You don't marry out of false pretenses if you don't already have difficulty with the truth. This wouldn't be the first time she lied to give herself the best options. I bet if you really think about this, this is a large part of what your doubts are about. I think at least subconsciously you know there is more to this.

I really think you need to let go of this fairy tale that you have a great marriage. Doesn't sound all that great for either one of you, and by extension if you are posting this thread how could it be? I mean your post seems like you are of two minds and are being dishonest, maybe with us but I think more so with yourself. "we are in a darn good place" yet you are ready to leave. Nope you are not in a pretty good place at all, you are not happy my friend, and you haven't been for a long while. Now maybe part of this is this is your only real relationship so you have no context. You never dealt with any of this honestly and you ended up acting out in the worst way. First step is to be honest with yourself and your wife. Be honest about your marriage and who your wife and you are. You both have been toxic towards each other and yourselves in extension. Then, have you tried marriage counseling (and not some pastor giving advice out of dogma, which I suspect you be your route, but a licensed trained one)? Are you sure you really want to be married?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dictum Veritas said:


> There is the cornerstone of this whole marriage. She lied to you and took away your agency to decide. The marriage was built on a lie and the foundation was rotten from the word go. This is squarely on your wife's shoulders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think there is a lot of wisdom in this post. I would bet this is spot on. No one hangs at someones house, is attracted to them and nothing happens. Your wife's M.O. is to lie, she married using a lie to do so. 

What's the story with her Father? That dynamic often plays itself out in the marriage in very bad ways.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you should let her go (my guess is you’ll decide not to but you really should).


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My advice is to forgive her and yourself and reconcile. If you weren't together she didn't cheat on you (the pre-marriage event). She was probably devastated over your break up and sought consolation from another guy. He made sex seem "easy" versus holding on to her virginity for the guy (you) who dumped her. I think she discovered the truth and was devastated enough to confide in you about it. I see absolutely no reason to hold this against her. Our culture is all about sex- haven't you noticed? I personally know a lot of very good girls that lost their virginity in really sad, awful ways. I don't understand your pride over the virginity thing because if you aren't doing this for God then it is really just about pride. Pride is also one of the seven deadly sins.

Speaking of pride, you need to face up to your adultery. Yours was during the marriage and premeditated. It wasn't an act of passion that you lost control of yourself. You purposefully planned the event ahead of time with full consent of your will that you were going to commit adultery. If I were you, I'd go to confession.

I don't know what to say about your wife. Did she "shut down" only as a result of you shutting down on her? It does sound like it. Was she suspicious about you? I can't really condone what she did although I would say if you were ignoring her for months/years that it would seem fairly reasonable that a beautiful woman (your words) could easily find attention elsewhere. 

In sum, she isn't the Blessed Mother and you aren't Saint Joseph. We're all flawed and if you think you can find someone flawless- good luck with that. I'd say keep begging her for forgiveness and go back to church if you aren't. It's only with the sacraments that we have any hope of being our best selves. I wish you both a happy St. Valentine's day.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Your wife opened this pandora's box before she married you. Not great that you followed suit but it is not surprising considering the circumstances. Thing is while you were indulging in your affair your wife was doing the same...again.

_About the same time as my affair (couple months after mine) she admitted to also meeting with a guy from her high school reunion, texting/sexting him and kissing him but no sex (she said she wanted to have sex with him but after she found out about him being with nearly 30 other partners she wanted no part of that). _

A cheater will always lie and minimize what they have done. It was one kiss when in reality it was so much more - unprotected sex. As another poster has already said your wife lied to you and that is what the marriage was built upon. Not much of a foundation.

If we tally the score regardless of what stage your relationship was at dating, married, your wife has betrayed you at least twice. Once before marriage and one during. I think if you do a little digging you will likely find out there were other instances where she cheated on you.

I make no claim that you are blameless but your wife betrayed you first and continued to do so. You can certainly stay to try to rebuild the marriage but it will be a one sided effort. You will be the only one working to save it. Your wife's behavior and actions say as much.


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