# When is marriage past saving?



## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

My husband and I have been married for nearly four years. We have been through a lot, but our main struggle is intimacy. Before I get into it, cheating is not a concern. He frequently leaves his social media accounts logged in, never weird about his phone, doesn’t flinch when I look at pictures or get a phone number. So...not concerned there.

Honestly, that’s what makes things worse though. We are intimate about two times per week, but it’s mediocre at best. He is not spontaneous, acts exhausted, and it almost feels like a chore. Literally will yawn in my face and fake sleep. Or pretend like he isn’t interested as if I need to pursue him. It’s just weird. We are under 30 and in good shape....so I just don’t get it.

I know intimacy won’t always be 50 shades of grey, but it hurts feeling like I am not desired and that sex is a chore. He also works nights so I only get three nights a week with him going to bed with me. It gets super lonely.

Our communication and such isn’t great, but it’s not like he’s home very much anyways. I can live with communication not being the best, but I’m starting to feel really insecure about the intimacy. Is this something that can be regained, or is this just what our marriage is? I know I won’t be able to live like this forever.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Has your sex life always been like this? Or when did it change?


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

Somewhat. He’s always been less interested than me (I’d prefer 3-4 a week), but now there’s significantly less passion.

We do have a two year old, and about a week before I was scheduled to have him we went through a weird moment where he said “he didn’t know how he felt about me”. So I guess some of this could be in my head, but it does feel completely void of any passion. He blames it on the big life change and says he loves me, but it all feels so weird.

It would almost hurt less if there were someone else. It just feels like he isn’t interested. He is not like this in any other area of his life (normally pretty dominant and a go getter).


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Has he ever had his testosterone levels checked?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Yours isn't.

Marriages where there is physical violence, adultery, commission of felonies, or abandonment (meaning, for real, partner is gone and hasn't returned for a long time) are "past saving", although there are some outliers who claim restoration. Personally, I can't see how.



Tiredandconfused92 said:


> He also works nights so I only get three nights a week with him going to bed with me.


Having an irregular sleep schedule like this may be making him really tired. I wouldn't be able to do this, long term. I would be drained of energy.
@Andy1001 has a good suggestion. I don't know much about testosterone but there are people on here who do.


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

Yes. It was on the lower side but he has been on a weekly injection for years at this point. His levels are where they should be at this point (he has routine checkups). He has energy to go to the gym, hang out with friends, but it’s like he’s stuck in some weird routine with me. I almost feel like he sees me as a sibling since he acts so strange when trying to “set the mood”.


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

TJW said:


> Yours isn't.
> 
> Marriages where there is physical violence, adultery, commission of felonies, or abandonment (meaning, for real, partner is gone and hasn't returned for a long time) are "past saving", although there are some outliers who claim restoration. Personally, I can't see how.
> 
> ...


I get the irregular sleep schedule, but it’s just weird to me. His shift is 5:30pm to 3:00am, in bed by four and up by 12. I just find it odd our mutual friends still have passion and enjoy intimacy, but he can’t manage these hours. He is a police officer. Totally get the job is draining....but when intimacy does happen I’d like it to seem like he at least wants to be participating.

Intimacy is more than sex. From kissing to any other type of affection....he needs prompting. I wish it were a natural thing to “need” things from me.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe he hasn’t lost “love” for you but he feels he’s no longer “in love” with you? Life can get in the way of intimacy and if he doesn’t feel ”in love” any more he may have lost interest.


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

Openminded said:


> Maybe he hasn’t lost “love” for you but he feels he’s no longer “in love” with you? Life can get in the way of intimacy and if he doesn’t feel ”in love” any more he may have lost interest.


That is how it feels. He is a very internal person as is so it’s nearly impossible to “open up” without him acting annoyed. We just had another talk about it and he had no reaction when I explained why this makes me feel insecure. He says he considers himself lucky and loves me/our life, but he seems very indifferent. I wish heading those words prompted a physical reaction from him, at least a hug, simply because he wants me to feel loved.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Would you both be open to seeing a marriage counselor, and maybe a sex therapist as well?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah, it does sound like “love” at this point vs. “in love”.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TJW said:


> Yours isn't.
> 
> Marriages where there is physical violence, adultery, commission of felonies, or abandonment (meaning, for real, partner is gone and hasn't returned for a long time) are "past saving", although there are some outliers who claim restoration. Personally, I can't see how.
> 
> ...


I was going to say this exactly same thing. I once has a family member who worked nights for a year. They have never been so weary and tired or ever caught so many illnesses as they did that year. Is it possible that he can stop doing the nights?


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I worked almost that exact same shift for almost 10 years and it played havoc with my marriage. I remember being almost always exhausted and tired. I remember the lack of sleep changing the way I would think about things and the way I would mentally approach things. I fully believed that the shift and everything that came with it truly did kick off my depression and anxiety problem, or just made them much worse than they would have been.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Tiredandconfused92 said:


> I get the irregular sleep schedule, but it’s just weird to me. His shift is 5:30pm to 3:00am, in bed by four and up by 12. I just find it odd our mutual friends still have passion and enjoy intimacy, but he can’t manage these hours. He is a police officer. Totally get the job is draining....but when intimacy does happen I’d like it to seem like he at least wants to be participating.
> 
> Intimacy is more than sex. From kissing to any other type of affection....he needs prompting. I wish it were a natural thing to “need” things from me.


You cant expect him to be the same as you. Marriage is accepting the other perons as they are.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Openminded said:


> Maybe he hasn’t lost “love” for you but he feels he’s no longer “in love” with you? Life can get in the way of intimacy and if he doesn’t feel ”in love” any more he may have lost interest.


"in love"? This is hollywood talk. Love is action. The spouse either chooses to provide conjugal rights and make an effort or they don't. It is as simple as that.

Now if you want to change hearts, there is a tactic for that. And when you submit to the right power source, the couples path is made straight.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

waynejoey said:


> "in love"? This is hollywood talk. Love is action. The spouse either chooses to provide conjugal rights and make an effort or they don't. It is as simple as that.
> 
> Now if you want to change hearts, there is a tactic for that. And when you submit to the right power source, the couples path is made straight.


he provides his conjugal services.... as a chore.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

waynejoey said:


> "in love"? This is hollywood talk. Love is action. The spouse either chooses to provide conjugal rights and make an effort or they don't. It is as simple as that.
> 
> Now if you want to change hearts, there is a tactic for that. And when you submit to the right power source, the couples path is made straight.


If you’re referring to religion, not everyone believes what you believe.


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

Thanks for the various responses!

We had more discussion about this and I think he is understanding where I am coming from regarding our sex life.

I’ve also realized I’ve been trying to use sex to fill our lack of communication/connection. I don’t think any amount of “fireworks” in bed can replace my need for an actual connection. Obviously that is not the best path, so we will be trying out a podcast and dedicating more conscious time to spend with each other/interacting. Maybe a mixture of Covid and the mundane routine of our lives snubbed out the passion?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Plus, as he works as a policeman, and during the worst hours he may be showing stress from seeing people at their worst all the time.

As well as the present political climate regarding police.

Hope he stays safe, he's doing a thankless job.
Cops should be paid way better.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Tiredandconfused92 , 

A couple of thoughts spring to mind, and before I go any further I want to let you know a little bit about who I am. I'm in my later 50's married to a fella who was a sargeant in the Army. So in other words, he also had a job that resulted in more stress/trauma than the typical 9-5 desk job. In addition, he was on duty when he was on duty 24/7... and this resulted in a sleep pattern that's easily thrown off and lack of sleep is an issue. So I really empathize with you being the loving wife of a guy who has a really tough job and poor sleep patterns (right now). 

So one thought is just this: you married a police officer and became a police wife. Part of OUR duty is to accept THEIR duty. They are who they are! Some of the work they do is hard in ways we literally can't imagine (and thank goodness we've never had to). So on one level, part of our job is to be the foundational support for men who are called upon to give far more than is asked of others. Some things they just can not and do not speak about, because if you heard details about some of things they saw or did and had to "set aside to carry on," you would throw up. For you and I, if we have a traumatic thing happen that scares us or freaks us out, we get some time to process it and deal with it--they don't. They not only have to "carry on" because sometimes their partner's life or a civilian's life or someone in their unit's life will depend on them being able to keep moving in the face of a lot of scariness! So yep, they learn how to sort of be quiet and keep to themselves and not talk a lot. I think a portion of what we agreed to when we signed up to love men "on duty" was to accept what I call "still waters run deep." There may be a lot going on underneath, but on the surface they will look calm and in control/command. Another portion of what we agreed to when we signed up to love men "on duty" was that they aren't typical 9-5 desk job guys with desk job stresses. They PROTECT and they SERVE, and those are good things...but they can also be a little different in a marriage. He may think he's protecting you by not telling you gory details (and maybe he is!). He may also be serving you by doing a job that makes the town you live in ... safe! So thought #1: he is who he is and you signed up to be a police wife. It is NOT an easy job, but you are a strong woman. 

Thought #2: What you are viewing as lack of love or lack of passion may be something kind of simple--namely, a difference in love language. Imagine this: A husband loves his wife and thinks of her with love and warmth, so he thinks "I am going to make sure she is always safe and comfortable" so every night he goes to the garage, cleans and washes his wife's car, takes it to the station to fill it with gas, and checks that the registration and insurance and AAA info is handy in the glovebox. He thinks he is showing how much he loves her by taking care of her car. And every night, the wife thinks her husband can't stand her and the moment he has any free time he rushes off to that stupid garage to play with the car he loves more than her! He washes it and fills it up and meanwhile he never spends any time with her--just with that darn car. She thinks he loves the car more than he loves her. So see how he is not communicating his love in a "language" that she understands? She feels UNLOVED. His love language is probably something like "Acts of Service"...and hers is probably "Quality Time"--but sadly they are missing the info and thus missing the love! So, the five love languages are *Words of Affirmation*, *Acts of Service*, *Receiving Gifts*, *Quality Time*, and *Physical Touch*. I wonder if you two might be something similar. I might think your love language is something like "Physical Touch" or as regards attraction maybe "Words of Affirmation"...and his might be something else! Anyway, it would be worth looking into...and you can take the couples' quiz here: Couples Quiz - The 5 Love Languages®

Final thought: sleep disturbance. As I mentioned Beloved Hubby served and his sleep has been just disrupted ever since. Now, that's not to say that he "doesn't" sleep--it's just not your typical 8 hour, sleep-all-through-the-night pattern. You know, if a person either doesn't get 8 hours at all, or they get 8 hours but it's not when their biorhythm would usually say "sleep now"...then even though they are awake, it is exhausting mentally and physically. I can't speak for all male humans, but both of my sons also work "night jobs" and Beloved Hubby probably gets 6 hours a night but not solid sleep, right? And all three react differently than I would if I didn't get sleep. See, as a female human, if I don't get sleep, I get groggy and draggy. All three of "the men" become more irritable and ... well shoot there's like an edge to them that they can't be their normal, calm, daylight selves. Now some get more quiet/leave-me-alone and others get more grouchy, but the dynamic is there of being annoyed and frustrated. Not angry--just not their usual, kind selves, you know? So when a person feels like that--almost on the verge of sick, sleep-deprived, edgy--I could TOTALLY see why they wouldn't be as passionate. Yes, there's still love and respect and enjoyment and endearment and devotion--but not feeling real good, being a bit cranky and tired, the last thing on the mind is "hey let's nookie!" 

I think if you combine all these thoughts you'll see that a whole lot of this is landing in your lap, and here's why: you are here and he is not. But the truth of the matter is that loving a man who serves isn't easy. It's our job to figure out how to do it. It's also our job to stick with it when the going gets tough.


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

Affaircare said:


> So one thought is just this: you married a police officer and became a police wife. Part of OUR duty is to accept THEIR duty. They are who they are!


I some what get where you are coming with this, but I do not agree. We were together long before he was in law enforcement and it is ridiculous to think you can blame lack of emotion or connection on your job. While I do give him more grace, he still is accountable for staying checked in. I hate this police wife stigma that we should feel guilt for still having expectations within reason for our spouses. Your response is pretty assumptious of what my profession is (I am also encountering patients and trauma) and what I expect from him.

I hands down do not agree with “you knew what you signed up for”, because no one can know. In addition to the fact that we have been together for nearly ten years, it’s a pretty intense shift. I think people underestimate the sense of authority that goes to their head as well early in their career. That is a whole other can of worms we currently are working on, which is his inability to communicate with respect

We have done the love languages book but that could be a nice refresher. His love language is words of affirmation and gifts where mine is quality time and physics touch. Exact opposites!

I do appreciate the response. I think we have fundamental differences on the amount of effort we expect as far as maintaining a marriage, and there comes a point where both parties need to try to meet each other in the middle. There’s a fine line between making excusing and giving grace.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Tiredandconfused92 said:


> I some what get where you are coming with this, but I do not agree. We were together long before he was in law enforcement and it is ridiculous to think you can blame lack of emotion or connection on your job. While I do give him more grace, he still is accountable for staying checked in. I hate this police wife stigma that we should feel guilt for still having expectations within reason for our spouses. Your response is pretty assumptious of what my profession is (I am also encountering patients and trauma) and what I expect from him.
> 
> I hands down do not agree with “you knew what you signed up for”, because no one can know. In addition to the fact that we have been together for nearly ten years, it’s a pretty intense shift. I think people underestimate the sense of authority that goes to their head as well early in their career. That is a whole other can of worms we currently are working on, which is his inability to communicate with respect
> 
> ...


I was going to respond to Tiredandconfused post similarly but you said it better than I would have. 

I have also spent almost 4 decades in a public safety role and paid my dues on the night shift. 

Yes all of it does present special challenges that the common person does not face - 

- but that doesn’t mean you have to endure it forever. You still have a choice and you still have the right to live your life as you see best for you. 

If he ain’t cut’n the mustard, he ain’t cut’n the mustard regardless of his occupation. 

Police officers are not entitled to have indentured wives that must endure dissatisfaction for the rest of their lives just because their husbands wear a badge.


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I was going to respond to Tiredandconfused post similarly but you said it better than I would have.
> 
> I have also spent almost 4 decades in a public safety role and paid my dues on the night shift.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I felt like I was coming off like a bitter old hag, but I do not believe using your job as a reason for your shortcomings is a valid excuse. Everyone is entitled to a bad day, but that shouldn’t be the norm. That is is very much being a martyr.

But happy update! While physical affection is not on the up and up, he has made a point to set aside quality time for us. We had 45 minutes of a show we both like with some wine while the baby slept. I’d take that as a win! While I always would like some intimacy, this is also wonderful and exactly what I need.


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

Sorry - to add onto that I fully agree police wives should not be forced to endure being of “the badge”. It’s ridiculous. Again, everyone is entitled to a bad day but you are still obligated to be present in your marriage. If you can’t, then maybe this isn’t the career for you. My husband does try so this certainly isn’t a snipe at him, but I pity wives who think they owe their husbands all the sacrifice in the world without fighting for their happiness whatsoever. Maybe this is why the divorce rate is nearly 70% in law enforcement!l??

Speak up if you are unhappy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Tiredandconfused92 said:


> Sorry - to add onto that I fully agree police wives should not be forced to endure being of “the badge”. It’s ridiculous. Again, everyone is entitled to a bad day but you are still obligated to be present in your marriage. If you can’t, then maybe this isn’t the career for you.


Or maybe it isn’t the marriage for you (or maybe not for either of you).


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## Tiredandconfused92 (Oct 11, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Or maybe it isn’t the marriage for you (or maybe not for either of you).


 I am willing to work at it as LONG as he reciprocates the effort. I’ve been happily surprised over the last few days by his willingness to meet me in the middle, especially after the realization that I am muddying the waters when it comes to sex vs. connection in the marriage. I can handle less sex so long as I still feel connected.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Tiredandconfused92 said:


> I am willing to work at it as LONG as he reciprocates the effort.


Reciprocation and sincere effort are good benchmarks to keep in mind. 

When that stops or is just token lip service, it’s time to start pack’n.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

When you're wasting your one life being miserable.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

_”When is marriage past saving?”_

It’s probably the same as in any relationship, married or not. For me, it’s when contempt enters the picture. Or when you hate the sound of their voice and cringe when you think they’re going to try to touch you or have sex with you. Or when they won’t have sex with you, leaving you to have to make some hard decisions.

Contempt; _”When we communicate with contempt, we are truly mean. Treating others with disrespect and mocking them with sarcasm and condescension are forms of contempt. So are hostile humor, name-calling, mimicking, and body language such as eye-rolling and sneering. In whatever form, contempt is poisonous to a relationship because it conveys disgust and superiority, especially moral, ethical, or characterological.”_

I find that when I feel contempt for a person, it’s only after I’ve exhausted all avenues of trying to make it work. They _cause_ the problem and then try to play the victim. **** um and the horse they rode in on. ✌


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Openminded said:


> If you’re referring to religion, not everyone believes what you believe.


She might so it is sound advice.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Openminded said:


> If you’re referring to religion, not everyone believes what you believe.


Understood, but it is still the truth


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