# The Basic Choice



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Here's a serious conundrum. In CWI most stories involve a spouse who cheated and the resulting consideration of divorce.

But there are also stories of folks who would like to get together with another person but have not yet done so. They are advised to divorce first before becoming involved. This, most of us I think would agree, is the fairest thing to do.

But is it really? And this is the problem. The spouse who is asked for a divorce when there is no affair cannot help but feel that the entire blame for the breakup of the marriage is theirs. It is human nature. If it was not their fault, why is the spouse leaving?

On the other hand, when infidelity plays a role, the betrayed spouse feels that none of it is their fault. As we say, infidelity is 100% on the cheater. So that spouse knows where the problem is.

Now given the choice, which is the best for the "betrayed" spouse? Which is better feeling that they are a total and complete failure, or feeling that it was all the cheating spouses fault?

I would have chosen the "divorce first" solution as the most fair, but after reading some "divorce first" stories here and on other forums, it seems that the shocked and surprised spouse is even MORE devastated than the spouse betrayed by a cheater.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Divorce first. I am not a failure or cheater. If Mrs. Conan was calling it quits, I would not want her to cheat plus, I might even try to win her heart back before she left. Cheating is betrayal, defilement and risking your partners health.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think the the best thing for a betrayed spouse that has no chance in R due to an exit affair I would think that going out and getting laid ASAP is best..

The only catch is finding the phuck puddy that clearly understand that what's going on is not a relationship but just sex. It's just not fair to screw with another individual when a betrayed is not all together, but if a betrayed can go out and get some and the other partner is good with it then why not? 

I think to have a meaningful relationship one has to be at their best and lets face it this infidelity crap along with a shyty divorce one is surely not them selves...much less at their best.

Ones next partner deserves an emotionally healthy individual to start a healthy relationship with.

That's my $0.02


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

The testimony offered both here and elsewhere would seem to make it pretty clear that the pain brought about by the betrayal of infidelity is both savage and unrelenting.

_But having *no choice* w/ respect to the future of your marriage?_ That is another matter altogether, as there is sure to be a very healthy portion of panic to go along w/ the pain.

Couple the two of them and you have a recipe for the beginnings of a truly traumatic experience.

So, as you say, it all comes down to choices... and whether or not we're free to make them for ourselves.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Syd,

I think most of the advise in those situations is usually to tell the BS about the inappropriate and growing 'connection' that the WS has already begun....and then file for D if they truly want one before taking the betrayal to even more damaging levels.

If the WS were to follow THAT advise and disclose the already inappropriate behavior, then the BS should be able to understand that it is not them.

I would bet the situations you are describing where the BS is even more devastated are ones where the WS has NOT followed the advice given and disclosed their inappropriate connection...probably in order to protect their own reputation.

So the BS has no context to understand where the sudden desire for D is coming from.

That extra pain, therefore, is primarily the result of deception and dishonesty from the WS (even if a full blown EA or PA has not begun yet).


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> Here's a serious conundrum. In CWI most stories involve a spouse who cheated and the resulting consideration of divorce.
> 
> But there are also stories of folks who would like to get together with another person but have not yet done so. They are advised to divorce first before becoming involved. This, most of us I think would agree, is the fairest thing to do.
> 
> ...


Interesting question that' I've never thought about. In my opinion the high road is a dangerous place to think we're at when infidelity is involved. After all the role of villain (low road) is taken by the WS so that leaves the BS defaulting to the high road. It's a classic case of human nature to think in terms of all or nothing. Wrong or right. The reality is that each person must look back and determine objectively if what they think of their own actions.

In short, there is no substitute for intelligent introspection where infidelity was involved or not. Anything less is not growth.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

sidney2718 said:


> Now given the choice, which is the best for the "betrayed" spouse? Which is better feeling that they are a total and complete failure, or feeling that it was all the cheating spouses fault?


If a betrayed thinks they are a total failure, then forget about....One must...has to *know* that the cheating spouse is at fault!

There is no excuse for infidelity. There is only one choice a betrayed has and that is cheating is wrong and if one is a cheat then phuck them!


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

the guy said:


> If a betrayed thinks they are a total failure, then forget about....One must...has to *know* that the cheating spouse is at fault!
> 
> There is no excuse for infidelity. There is only one choice a betrayed has and that is cheating is wrong and if one is a cheat then phuck them!


You missed the point. Sidney said BS's are more than ready to accept no blame yet a person being left by their partner when no infidelity has occurred is left wondering why they aren't good enough. You kind of made sidney's point actually. Infidelity gives BS's a high road where introspection isn't necessary.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> You missed the point. Sidney said BS's are more the ready to accept no blame yet a person being left by their partner when no infidelity has occurred is left wondering why they aren't good enough. You kind of made sidney's point actually. Infidelity gives BS's a high road where introspection isn't necessary.


Know I just need to know what "introspection" means.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

the guy said:


> Know I just need to know what "introspection" means.


Introspection means to inspect one's self so that's my meaning behind the word anyway. My thought is that introspection is a good thing that we learn from. In my case for exampe, I learned that I handled my ex's infidelity terribly. I was needy and insecure. I also learned that there were red flags I should have noticed way before I did. I never assumed blame for her cheating though so I count myself lucky in that regard. I think Sidney's question is a philosophical one. Is it better to be a betrayed spouse blaming the wayward for everything or is it better when there is no infidelity involved where the spouse being left is left feeling inadequate.

My thoughts are that he's missing the real point which is all about introspection and objectively trying to figure out what when wrong. To me this process has to happen whether there's infidelity or not.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

sidney2718 said:


> The spouse who is asked for a divorce when there is no affair cannot help but feel that the entire blame for the breakup of the marriage is theirs. It is human nature. If it was not their fault, why is the spouse leaving?.


Faulty assumption. A person may leave the marriage for reasons that are independent of their spouse e.g. new belief system, new career, gender identity/sexual orientation to name some. Those are not subject to the left behind spouse influence or control.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> You missed the point. Sidney said BS's are more than ready to accept no blame yet a person being left by their partner when no infidelity has occurred is left wondering why they aren't good enough. You kind of made sidney's point actually. Infidelity gives BS's a high road where introspection isn't necessary.


Not always true. It is not as cut and dried as Sidney proposes. 

The BS (when infidelity is involved) is still left wondering why they are not good enough and depending on the words said during and after D-Day, they can feel just as much of a failure as the spouse just dealt a walk away condition and also have the stigma of not being good enough that their WS sought out others because they weren't good enough at providing the necessary needs. They might not (or might in some cases) feel just as responsible as the left spouse but now they have also have the stigma that they not only failed but weren't good enough for their leaving spouse to deal with, so one more layer to the pile.

The walk away is always the better option, as it is possible to attend counseling and possibly repair the marriage, but in most cases with infidelity it is hard to put the betrayal behind. It will always be the elephant in the room that lots can't and don't want to deal with for the remainder of their lives, especially since it has created a high road/ low road situation.

Generally it would seem in a walk away condition the leaving spouse would be more willing to address their unhappiness and talk about it openly with the spouse being left, so a level of closure may be obtained. In the infidelity case usually the WS is unwilling to speak openly about anything they have done to hurt the spouse (for fear, shame, or any other reason and thus withhold from the BS) and only willing to address and talk about what they perceive the BS has done to drive them to the infidelity (this is evident in how few ever get the truth from the beginning and only get TT'd and acknowledgement of what is already discovered, known, and proveable).


----------



## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Divorce first, for sure. Why?

1. First, finding out that your spouse is divorcing you is hard enough to deal with, devastating for most, but also having to deal with the betrayal of an affair at the same time? Excruciating.
2. I see your point about how a BS might not blame themselves as much when an affair is involved, but the reality is that most BS's end up blaming themselves for a large part of it anyway. Plus, while "they" may say that cheaters are 100% responsible for their cheating, I think most of us know that it's usually not actually 100%. I think the BS has more often contributed to the the situation that led to the affair to some small degree, and they will dwell on all of that either way.
3. If you're at the point of feeling that you want a divorce, then having an affair first instead is just robbing more time from your spouse that they could be using to heal/recover/rebuild and ultimately find happiness with someone else.
4. You'll likely be dooming your post-divorce relationship with your spouse, as they will struggle that much more to forgive you. What could have been a cordial parting, or even a friendship, will likely be impossible.
5. Any relationship you start with an affair partner will automatically be severely handicapped from having been born from an affair. (The AP will trust you slightly less as an obvious cheater, it being forced to weather the invevitable D-Day and likely exposure/public humiliation, etc.)


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> Divorce first, for sure. Why?
> 
> 1. First, finding out that your spouse is divorcing you is hard enough to deal with, devastating for most, but also having to deal with the betrayal of an affair at the same time? Excruciating.
> 2. I see your point about how a BS might not blame themselves as much when an affair is involved, but the reality is that most BS's end up blaming themselves for a large part of it anyway. Plus, while "they" may say that cheaters are 100% responsible for their cheating, I think most of us know that it's usually not actually 100%. I think the BS has more often contributed to the the situation that led to the affair to some small degree, and they will dwell on all of that either way.
> ...


:iagree: Except with part 5. Generally the AP and WS feel that they deserve each other and F anybody else that believes otherwise. They feel they are destined for each other and could care less what anybody else thoughts are on this. They plan for this great and everlasting love and life after the M is dissolved. Not until the S hits the fan do they even think about the fact that the person cheated. They never think about that nor do they lose trust for the WS as they "know" they were destined to be together and are the best person for the WS, way better than the good for nothing BS whom is merely getting what they deserve. In fact many don't even think of it as/ or view it as cheating, until one of them cheats on the other down the road and then they look at it as "Wow they were a cheater after all!"


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> You missed the point. Sidney said BS's are more than ready to accept no blame yet a person being left by their partner when no infidelity has occurred is left wondering why they aren't good enough. You kind of made sidney's point actually. Infidelity gives BS's a high road where introspection isn't necessary.


Actually I think the point here is....that its better someone be cheated on than just being divorced.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Actually I think the point here is....that its better someone be cheated on than just being divorced.


If we're talking intent rather than wording then the point is probably more the same junk that's been in a couple of other threads. The passive aggressive point was to make another jab at BS's by insinuating that all BS's shuck all blame for all problems on the WS.

But I was playing nice and commenting on the words rather than what I think the intent of this thread was for.


----------



## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

There are many reasons to divorce, cheating is one. There are many others.

So I need to cheat to justify divorce? No.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

People also divorce because of unresolvable incompatibility. Perhaps neither realized it until they'd been married a while, yet neither is to blame, and likely both have tried to find a workable compromise but failed.

So, there is no fault on either side, but one may realize sooner than the other that continuing the marriage is pointless. Of course, there may be conflict and misunderstanding due to the unresolvable incompatibility, but it's hard to find fault with that if it doesn't become abusive.


----------



## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> Here's a serious conundrum. In CWI most stories involve a spouse who cheated and the resulting consideration of divorce.
> 
> But there are also stories of folks who would like to get together with another person but have not yet done so. They are advised to divorce first before becoming involved. This, most of us I think would agree, is the fairest thing to do.
> 
> ...


I think that you've totally simplified and condensed infidelity to 'whose at fault' and that is vastly different from the reality of it. Infidelity is a whole other monster.

In terms of blame, it's not uncommon for the betrayed spouse to either feel and assume the blame for their spouse's affair or have that blame thrust upon them by their spouse. This can lead to depression, anxiety and low self esteem. You mentioned that it's human nature to feel the break up is their fault so why wouldn't it apply in a situation where their spouse found someone else because in both their minds, the betrayed spouse wasn't good enough.

There are various ways an affair or cheating can play out but rarely is it as straight forward as: The adulterer cheats, the betrayed spouse has all of the infromation immediately, he or she instinctively knows they are not at fault and then file for divorce.

Infidelity generally involves lies, deception, suspicions, arguments, gas lighting, blame shifting, rewriting of the marital histroy, basically a bad and f***** up atmosphere and marriage that can be ongoing for years before the affair is discovered.

Then once the affair is discovered there is the massive fall out.

In addition to the emotions assocaited with being dumped, the betrayed spouse is left with hurt, pain, anger, trust issues, depression, suicidal tendencies and actul attempts, violence and confrontation (with the mistress or mister), shame and resentment.

A breakup is limited to one family but in a situation where the affair is between two married spouses then that's two families who are left devastated. The affair partner could be a friend of either spouse or a relative as well which would destroy relations and divide and pit friends and family members against each other in the aftermath of the affair's discovery.

With regard to work place affairs where the affair partner is either a work collegue, superior or subordinate, the affair may be in violation of company or carry legal repercussions which may result in the adulterers both losing their jobs or lawsuits.

Infidelity also carries the risk of STDs, STIs and pregnancy.

If it's between a breakup (divorce where there's been fidelity) or infidelity, it's really not a choice. I'd rather deal with being dumped than being cheated on.


----------



## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

I would have much preferred on the day I found out for my WS to have just walked in with a pistol and shot me dead. It would have been much kinder.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> On the other hand, when infidelity plays a role, the betrayed spouse feels that none of it is their fault. As we say, infidelity is 100% on the cheater. So that spouse knows where the problem is.


If you buy into that argument. I've been around too long to believe that a BS didn't contribute in some manner to the problem. Like some say about religion, I'm a skeptic.


----------



## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> :iagree: Except with part 5. Generally the AP and WS feel that they deserve each other and F anybody else that believes otherwise. They feel they are destined for each other and could care less what anybody else thoughts are on this. They plan for this great and everlasting love and life after the M is dissolved. Not until the S hits the fan do they even think about the fact that the person cheated. They never think about that nor do they lose trust for the WS as they "know" they were destined to be together and are the best person for the WS, way better than the good for nothing BS whom is merely getting what they deserve. In fact many don't even think of it as/ or view it as cheating, until one of them cheats on the other down the road and then they look at it as "Wow they were a cheater after all!"


You're right Squeakr, but with #5 I was referring to the affair relationship's likelihood of transitioning to a long term successful relationship, or that's what I meant by it anyway. Meaning if you're considering cheating in this scenario, in addition to the other 4 reasons it's a bad/wrong idea, it's worth realizing that any adulterous relationship you begin is going to be that much more unlikely to produce a happy long term relationship. Ultimately he/she would be better off divorcing first and then starting that relationship if they want it to have a better chance of being successful.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> If you buy into that argument. I've been around too long to believe that a BS didn't contribute in some manner to the problem. Like some say about religion, I'm a skeptic.


It isn't really an argument, it is a fallacy dreamt up by the WS, to make their infidelity justified and a way to credit their heinous actions back to the BS. 

The issue is that the BS feels they may be responsible for the issues in the M that led up to the infidelity (and I say may as cases exist where the BS had nothing to contribute to it and the WS just made a choice to straw with no reason to other than their personal desires, yes it does happen but rarely), but that doesn't justify the infidelity. Too many WS want to not take full responsibilities for this actions and thus they connect the two separate issues as being directly related and ignore the fact that no matter how unhappy they were, they made the choice to cheat and it is therefor 100% in them (and hat is the same thing Sidney is doing here by ignoring that these are separate events that stand alone on their own merits).


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> You're right Squeakr, but with #5 I was referring to the affair relationship's likelihood of transitioning to a long term successful relationship, or that's what I meant by it anyway. Meaning if you're considering cheating in this scenario, in addition to the other 4 reasons it's a bad/wrong idea, it's worth realizing that any adulterous relationship you begin is going to be that much more unlikely to produce a happy long term relationship. Ultimately he/she would be better off divorcing first and then starting that relationship if they want it to have a better chance of being successful.


Understood but this question was only asking which is better from the BS standpoint and not how the Ws feels or views it so point 5 really had no validity to the BS point of things (only from the WS point and they don't think far enough ahead or they wouldn't have cheated in the first place).


----------



## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> Understood but this question was only asking which is better from the BS standpoint and not how the Ws feels or views it so point 5 really had no validity to the BS point of things (only from the WS point and they don't think far enough ahead or they wouldn't have cheated in the first place).


Ah, yes, good point. I was just thinking of reasons why it is bad for both of them, the WS as well as the BS.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

ThePheonix said:


> If you buy into that argument. I've been around too long to believe that a BS didn't contribute in some manner to the problem. Like some say about religion, I'm a skeptic.





Squeakr said:


> It isn't really an argument, it is a fallacy dreamt up by the WS, to make their infidelity justified and a way to credit their heinous actions back to the BS.
> 
> The issue is that the BS feels they may be responsible for the issues in the M that led up to the infidelity (and I say may as cases exist where the BS had nothing to contribute to it and the WS just made a choice to straw with no reason to other than their personal desires, yes it does happen but rarely), but that doesn't justify the infidelity. Too many WS want to not take full responsibilities for this actions and thus they connect the two separate issues as being directly related and ignore the fact that no matter how unhappy they were, they made the choice to cheat and it is therefor 100% in them (and hat is the same thing Sidney is doing here by ignoring that these are separate events that stand alone on their own merits).


When someone tries to link a cheater's behavior to something that their non-cheating spouse has done, I try to think of a way to illustrate the confusion that person suffers under.

I look it this way.

What if you were driving on a long trip with your spouse as a passenger. And your spouse keeps talking about things you no longer find interesting and your irritation levels grow and grow.

Then at some point you open the car door and shove your spouse out into traffic.

Who's fault is it that your spouse is now injured and bleeding on the asphalt?

Yours? Your spouse?


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Syd,
> 
> I think most of the advise in those situations is usually to tell the BS about the inappropriate and growing 'connection' that the WS has already begun....and then file for D if they truly want one before taking the betrayal to even more damaging levels.
> 
> ...


I don't mean to be provocative, but what I wrote is what I meant. The discovery of a spouses affair or the spouse asking for a divorce without there being an affair. Both are painful. I've read threads where the divorce without their being an affair is described as more painful.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

the guy said:


> If a betrayed thinks they are a total failure, then forget about....One must...has to *know* that the cheating spouse is at fault!
> 
> There is no excuse for infidelity. There is only one choice a betrayed has and that is cheating is wrong and if one is a cheat then phuck them!


I don't mean to seem to be argumentative, but the situation you describe is not the one I wrote about. There are two cases:

Case A: spouse is found to be having an affair and wants a divorce.

Case B: spouse wants a divorce. There is no affair.

Both are painful in different ways. Which is worse for the abandoned spouse?


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Dogbert said:


> Faulty assumption. A person may leave the marriage for reasons that are independent of their spouse e.g. new belief system, new career, gender identity/sexual orientation to name some. Those are not subject to the left behind spouse influence or control.


Sure. I spoke in generalities. But most of the threads here and elsewhere that deal with spouses simply asking for a divorce are simply because the spouse fell out of love, leaving the other spouse feeling abandoned, unworthy, and insignificant.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

sidney2718 said:


> Both are painful. I've read threads where the divorce without their being an affair is described as more painful.


Same person with two marriages under his/her belt?


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Not always true. It is not as cut and dried as Sidney proposes.
> 
> The BS (when infidelity is involved) is still left wondering why they are not good enough and depending on the words said during and after D-Day, they can feel just as much of a failure as the spouse just dealt a walk away condition and also have the stigma of not being good enough that their WS sought out others because they weren't good enough at providing the necessary needs. They might not (or might in some cases) feel just as responsible as the left spouse but now they have also have the stigma that they not only failed but weren't good enough for their leaving spouse to deal with, so one more layer to the pile.
> 
> ...


You make good points, but the evidence here, posted mostly in forums other that CWI, points to the abandoned spouse wishing their spouse had cheated instead, since at least then they could understand why they were being left.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> If we're talking intent rather than wording then the point is probably more the same junk that's been in a couple of other threads. The passive aggressive point was to make another jab at BS's by insinuating that all BS's shuck all blame for all problems on the WS.
> 
> But I was playing nice and commenting on the words rather than what I think the intent of this thread was for.


The intent was as written. I've read a number of threads in other sections of TAM to see that the abandoned spouse really suffers a major loss of self esteem.

I'm not pushing an agenda here. My personal belief leans toward infidelity as being the worse of the two artificially limited choices.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> I don't mean to be provocative, but what I wrote is what I meant. The discovery of a spouses affair or the spouse asking for a divorce without there being an affair. Both are painful. I've read threads where the divorce without their being an affair is described as more painful.


Hmm... interesting concept. Honestly, I'd think that it would depend on whether or not the affair scenario involved a WAH/WAW, as -- in such a scenario -- the BS is faced not only w/ a betrayal, but also a loss of choice w/ respect to his or her marriage.

And, realistically, aside from those that have first-hand experience w/ both scenarios, how could anyone know? And, even then, there are tons of variables (degree of attachment to spouse/commitment to marriage, relative age/maturity level of the BS, etc) that really can't really be quantified, especially since it's virtually impossible for anyone to simultaneously experience both scenarios.

And we're still left w/ yet another question... _why does it even matter whose pain is worse?_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> You make good points, but the evidence here, posted mostly in forums other that CWI, points to the abandoned spouse wishing their spouse had cheated instead, since at least then they could understand why they were being left.


If that's the sole basis for your argument, I'd point out that many betrayed spouses have stated -- and rather emphatically -- that they'd have preferred to have been murdered by their respective waywards.


----------



## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> You make good points, but the evidence here, posted mostly in forums other that CWI, points to the abandoned spouse wishing their spouse had cheated instead, since at least then they could understand why they were being left.


Evidence is a strong word to use, information would be more accurate. Actual evidence would include a sample of spouses who've been married and divorced at least twice with one marriage having ended because of infidelity and another not (usually owing to several factors and reasons).



sidney2718 said:


> the abandoned spouse really suffers a major loss of self esteem


So does the betrayed spouse. Yes there is pain in being abandoned, no doubt. It can be devastating but I wouldn't wager it in the same league as infidelity.

People in general tend to be dramatic and hyperbolic. You'll often hear someone who is sick in bed with the flu or hunched over a toilet due to food poisoning wishing they were dead instead, even after a breakup.

"Wish that ...... instead" is just something people say when in pain, it's not a realistic representation of a prefered alternate scenario. I highly doubt that you'd hear someone who has actually experienced infidelity in the past and is now going through a breakup wishing that their spouse had cheated instead.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Locke.Stratos said:


> Evidence is a strong word to use, information would be more accurate. Actual evidence would include a sample of spouses who've been married and divorced at least twice with one marriage having ended because of infidelity and another not (usually owing to several factors and reasons).


:iagree::iagree:

Funny that you make this point as I was just about to post the same thing. Unless the BS has been the recipient of both types of divorces, they wouldn't have a clue, other than speculation, if one would hurt worse than the one they have experienced. Then that also begs the question were both marriages as equally involved, length, finances, children involved, etc to make such a fair comparison. I would think it were (from my talks to several that have gone through multiple divorces) somewhat akin the cheating in that once the thresh hold is past it is much easier the second time around (so in essence the first would always be worse in their minds having nothing to compare it to at the time).


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

So I'm choosing between:

A) Being unexpectedly dumped because the marriage was dead as far as the other person was concerned.

and

B) Being cheated on, because the marriage was dead as far as the other person was concerned, but they didn't want to dump me.

Both are painful, but I find that B is clearly the worst.

In A, the dumpee was treated with a modicum of respect as their ex at least had the integrity to provide a clean break. They can recover and move on. The money is probably divided relatively fairly and both parties probably deal reasonably with arrangements for any children. The dumpee comes out wondering what the hell happened, sure, but gets over the hit to the self-esteem and moves on.

In B, the betrayed was treated like crap, lied to, used and used up, by a person with no integrity, and finally has the horrible pain of discovering this fact. The money has probably been depleted to supply the affair relationship, and the children are often abandoned by the departing cheater. The betrayed may have wasted many years being used for income, child care, housework, whatever, while the cheater was elsewhere amusing themselves at their betrayed's expense. The betrayed's self-esteem is completely demolished. They have been treated with utter disrespect for who knows how long, lost years of their life depending on the length of the deception, question their own judgment to have loved and married someone clearly so evil, and develop severe trust issues that damage or prevent subsequent healthy relationships.

I think many people in situation B wish they had instead experienced situation A. I don't think there would be many people in situation A wishing their ex would have instead held on for years more while cheating on them.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I think many people in situation B wish they had instead experienced situation A. I don't think there would be many people in situation A wishing their ex would have instead held on for years more while cheating on them.


That's the thing. Anyone who's been in one of these situations but not the other one is not qualified to answer objectively. Only those who've been in neither or both can objectively have an opinion. I was in situation B so I know what that feels like. Seems like nothing is worse. Surely those in situation A thing the same thing though. Divorce and breakups are hard.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I have had experience of both situations in LTRs that were serious (though not Ms I must admit).

From my experience, Case B sucks a** much worse than A.

Sure, breaking up is painful...it is impossible not to feel at least a twinge of rejection, even if YOU were not particularly happy in the relationship anymore either.

But BETRAYAL?...I had the misfortune to experience this once...and it is not just rejection, but the hugest insult and act of total DISRESPECT that a person who cared for you (at least at one time) can heap upon your head.

They are not even close in my book.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Hopeful Cynic said:
> 
> 
> > I think many people in situation B wish they had instead experienced situation A. I don't think there would be many people in situation A wishing their ex would have instead held on for years more while cheating on them.
> ...


I don't think those that have experienced neither can be considered objective in their opinions either, as they have no idea the pain that is inflicted and can only speculate this making them no more qualified than those having only experienced one type of day solely. Those have experienced both types are the only ones that can be somewhat objective in this. 

I find it funny/ironic that one of Sidney's reasons/evidence of this being truth that just plain divorce is harder than infidelity divorce, is his readings from others on the forums wishing they had been cheated on instead of just divorced without infidelity. In his readings that viewpoint seems to be more meritorious than the same claims from those on CWI that claim they had wished their spouse had just divorced first and then sought out someone else rather than cheating.

Those having experienced infidelity wish just as hard that the opposite condition had been their experience as it would be easier to handle not their minds, yet for some reason those feelings carry less weight to Sidney than the opposite and aren't considered evidence to the contrary.


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> Here's a serious conundrum. In CWI most stories involve a spouse who cheated and the resulting consideration of divorce.
> 
> But there are also stories of folks who would like to get together with another person but have not yet done so. They are advised to divorce first before becoming involved. This, most of us I think would agree, is the fairest thing to do.
> 
> ...


Personally, I am against cheating 100% of the time, even if cheated on. I am for divorce almost 100% of the time if cheated on. I am largely against R most of the time because of my above conflict. My morals make it unacceptable for me to cheat but the betrayal thrust upon me, combined with a damaged relationship for my remaining years, makes the relationship not worth salvaging. 

So with that said, I am opposed to 'going out and getting some' right away but I am supportive of filing for divorce pronto. 

I know some of the stories here showed a WS being'shocked' but the he11 with them. If I went into Bank of America's local branch with a mask on and a gun pointed at the teller and grabbed some $$, why would I be shocked when I left the building and was confronted by 10 cops with AR-15's pointed square at me ??

I also feel or believe that if you go out and have a revenge A, that when that truth comes to light and you R, both sides have a problem from there on out.

Now there are extreme circumstances of which I will deviate from my position. The first is when the WS decides to move in with OM with full intentions to get married to him or in a corrupt manner (RO) throws you out of the house and has plans to move the other man in, or something flagrant like that, then you file for D and take care of yourself at that point. But that is more of an extreme circumstance.

The other thing is that I understand what "The Guy" is saying. I would think that if cheated on, going out and evening the score would put both WS and BS on largely the same level, they both 'got some' and it may ease future obstacles to a successful 'R'. I could be wrong on this. However, I, while not overly religious, believe I will meet my maker some day and want to do so with the purest form I can so I would resist this temptation.

So I guess what I am saying is that it's not all cut and dry but 99% of it is, at least for me. 

I agree with Conan's post above


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

cdbaker said:


> Divorce first, for sure. Why?
> 
> 1. First, finding out that your spouse is divorcing you is hard enough to deal with, devastating for most, but also having to deal with the betrayal of an affair at the same time? Excruciating.
> 2. I see your point about how a BS might not blame themselves as much when an affair is involved, but the reality is that most BS's end up blaming themselves for a large part of it anyway. Plus, while "they" may say that cheaters are 100% responsible for their cheating, I think most of us know that it's usually not actually 100%. I think the BS has more often contributed to the the situation that led to the affair to some small degree, and they will dwell on all of that either way.
> ...


I agree Baker. Good points


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> It isn't really an argument, it is a fallacy dreamt up by the WS, to make their infidelity justified and a way to credit their heinous actions back to the BS.
> 
> The issue is that the BS feels they may be responsible for the issues in the M that led up to the infidelity (and I say may as cases exist where the BS had nothing to contribute to it and the WS just made a choice to straw with no reason to other than their personal desires, yes it does happen but rarely), but that doesn't justify the infidelity. Too many WS want to not take full responsibilities for this actions and thus they connect the two separate issues as being directly related and ignore the fact that no matter how unhappy they were, they made the choice to cheat and it is therefor 100% in them (and hat is the same thing Sidney is doing here by ignoring that these are separate events that stand alone on their own merits).


:iagree:


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> So I'm choosing between:
> 
> A) Being unexpectedly dumped because the marriage was dead as far as the other person was concerned.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

best response so far IMO


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> So I'm choosing between:
> 
> A) Being unexpectedly dumped because the marriage was dead as far as the other person was concerned.
> 
> ...





wmn1 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> best response so far IMO


I agree!

But it left off being infected with STDs in the "win" column for choice "B"

No risk of that in choice "A"


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> I don't think those that have experienced neither can be considered objective in their opinions either, as they have no idea the pain that is inflicted and can only speculate this making them no more qualified than those having only experienced one type of day solely. Those have experienced both types are the only ones that can be somewhat objective in this.


Point taken. I tend to agree with you and stand corrected.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Okay, let's elaborate my earlier post: Which is more painful, A or B?

A) Being unexpectedly dumped because the marriage was dead as far as the other person was concerned.
or
B) Being cheated on, because the marriage was dead as far as the other person was concerned, but they didn't want to dump their spouse.

A comes with
dumpee treated with a modicum of respect (ex had decency to provide a clean break)
money probably divided relatively fairly
arrangements for children probably done reasonably fairly with their best interests in mind
dumpee takes a hit to the self-esteem, wondering what went wrong with the relationship

B comes with
betrayed was treated like crap, lied to, used and used up, by a person with no integrity
betrayed experiences pain of discovery and realization of what's been going on
money has probably been depleted to supply the affair relationship
children are often abandoned by the departing cheater
there may be questions of paternity or other children
betrayed may have wasted many years being used for income, child care, housework, whatever, while the cheater was elsewhere amusing themselves at their betrayed's expense.
betrayed may have been exposed to STDs by cheater
betrayed's self-esteem is completely demolished. They feel unworthy of respect because they have been treated with utter disrespect for who knows how long, they question their own judgment to have loved and married someone clearly so evil and never realized, and develop severe trust issues that damage or prevent subsequent healthy relationships.

Again, I think many people in situation B wish they had instead experienced situation A.

I don't think there would be many people in situation A wishing their ex would have held on for years more while cheating on them all the while instead.


----------

