# How do you get her gone?



## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

I finally decided it's time to pull the trigger.

I've spent enough time alone in contemplation, meditation, reviewing the past and I realized that our good days were only two years long and the remaining 15 have been distant. She has recently confirmed that something spooked her 15 years ago about me, she doesn't remember what it was, but she fears confronting me, talking honestly, and so on...and is not planning to "get past" it. Why have you remained with me? I ask? "Finances", she says.

So, she isn't a reason to stay.

But...my fear of being alone...oh, is that big. In the past year, I have been signing up for adult ed music classes - form-a-band. All of the women my age who are available make it obvious that if I weren't married....and a few of them, I've befriended and we do stuff together, non-romantic. One of them is particularly bright, happens to be an MD and counselor and when I told her I never figured I "had a knack" either socially or with women, she said "you're crazy". Then she recounted all the things I did to make her feel at home at the first class, how I was able to recognize the one evening she showed up in a panic attack and I defused her and she said, "I have never met a woman who would not fall in love with your ability to be compassionate and empathetic, it's what we all want and most have given up finding it in a man." And she began pointing out, in public, how women respond to me. OK...I'm convinced.

So now, I figure to not traumatize the wife, I bring up the topic of a separation gently...and she freezes. It took a week to get her to acknowledge what she feared. Money. "How about fear of being without me?" "No, none of that". She says that 15 years ago, something happened that made her not want to spend time wtih me. She doesn't remember what, she hasn't put time into figuring it out and doesn't plan to. So, for 15 years, she has intentionally been with a guy she wants nothing to do with, and for 15 years, I obsessed over what was I doing wrong, not knowing that it wasn't me. And now she continues to claim she wants something done, then actively stands in the way of me getting it done. "Do that" but "no you can't buy tools to do it". I'm done, I want her gone.

But as far as I can see, if I file for divorce, that doesn't get her out of the house. And that's what I want. As has been going on for over 15 years, she actively tries to stop me when doing any project, conducting any activity, and so on. I want the barrier removed. I run my business from the house, and require the workshop and land for it, so it would be horrendously inconvenient.

So, is that it? I have to file, and then however long that process takes, we continue to live under the same roof, doing our darnest to ignore each other?

(puppy whines in despair)


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> I finally decided it's time to pull the trigger.
> 
> Sorry about this thread response - my fat fingers hit "reply" instead of "edit" and I didn't notice. Clumsy, clumsy....


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Dusty, the only way you can prove your really serious is by filing, short of that she will continue to live in her fantasy world....frankly in my book your 13 years late on this. 

File...and see what comes of it...but in the off chance she will not move you may need to be ready to sell the property and look for another location for your business. But either way its time to move on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Could you talk her into moving out?


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Tried today to talk her into moving out and she just froze while thinking about the cost of apartments. Serious freeze. She can't get past it. I seriously doubt that filing will get her to move out. Unless the law requires it, which is why I asked the question.

I've spoken with two attorneys and they didn't seem particularly competent, so I'm just trying to find the right professional. This one should be a slam-dunk, no children, no debt, enough money for a 50/50 split, etc, but I think the attorneys I've found so far wanted to milk it. I'm going to try to find local mediators.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mediator might be ok. But it sounds like she might not be able to hold up her end of the mediation... she'll just freeze.

Is she shocked that you want a divorce? Besides freezing, what's her reaction?

I find it curious that she would tell you that years ago she stopped wanting much to do with you but she expects you to stay married to her. Very odd.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Not sure where you live, but where I live, you will need to give her 50% of what you own. She also gets 50% of the debt though too.

So offer to buy her an apartment and money equivalent to 50% of the equity in your property. This should get her to 'un-freeze' and see a way out of this marriage she doesn't want. 

Hopefully she earns as much as you do (or close to) and so you avoid having to pay her alimony. If she doesn't work, do some research and find out how much you will likely be paying her and for how long. Then offer her that as well. 

Once she sees how much money she is entitled to, she may jump at your offer. Educate her.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You got to buy her out of the house. You'll get an appraisal and have to fork over 50% of that to her to take it. She could force you sell it if you don't have the funds. Don't get emotional on the house. Sell it if it means starting over.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow, this is one of the saddest things I've read on here. What a *****. File for divorce, that will light some kind of fire under her ass. If it doesnt, tell her you want her gone and go full 180 stone wall on her until its done.


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## AussieRN (Mar 28, 2013)

Youre being used as her ATM and she admits shes only with you for money and your caring about traumatizing her? Really? 
If the marriage is savable then save it but tbh it doesn't sound like it is.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are the master of your own fate. She's told you and shown you that you're nothing to her but a checkbook. 

She's not the problem here you are.

If you cant/won't make the decision for your life and future who's going to do that for you? Typical. You want her to do it because you don't have the wherewithal to pull the trigger.

Quit being cowardly get a plan together and execute. It isn't that hard.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I don't know about your state, but here this would be a matter for the courts. If you were awarded the house in the divorce, she'd be given X days to move once the divorce is finalized. If she were to refuse to leave on that date, you'd have the sheriffs dept come out to forcibly remove her and her belongings. (For some reason, local police don't do evictions here and it's always handled by the county sheriffs office.)

I live where I live because I can afford the cost of housing here. I know many people who had divorces, job changes, or who were priced out of their preferred neighborhoods as rent increased over time. Those people generally handled the problem of housing costs by looking for less expensive housing in nearby areas or taking on roommates. If she can't afford the cost of houses or apartments in your area, she'll have to suck it up and move to where she can afford to live or take on roommates just like everybody else.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Is she working? How does her income compare to yours? If she earns significantly less, she'll probably get alimony, at least temporarily. Either way, money shouldn't be a huge problem for her - it may just be misperception or fear, not reality.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

I would talk with a lawyer and file. Which you have but keep looking for one that is right. Like you said no kids, no debt it should be pretty straight forward. I would think because you have a business, workshop and everything else you need at that location they would allow you to stay. And then have you hand over half or what it's worth so that she can live elsewhere.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

DustyDog said:


> She says that 15 years ago, something happened that made her not want to spend time wtih me. She doesn't remember what, she hasn't put time into figuring it out and doesn't plan to. So, for 15 years, she has intentionally been with a guy she wants nothing to do with, and for 15 years, I obsessed over what was I doing wrong, not knowing that it wasn't me. And now she continues to claim she wants something done, then actively stands in the way of me getting it done. "Do that" but "no you can't buy tools to do it". I'm done, I want her gone.


Since you've decided you're finished with the marriage, the reasons for this behavior of hers don't matter. However, this sounds like some kind of trauma of hers bubbling up to the surface. You became dangerous to her somehow. This is very very much like what my ex did to me. In her case it was childhood sexual abuse which really blew things up when our first baby was born.

Or, iow, whatever is going on with her is not easily solved even if she were willing to work on it.

Your description of your response to things, by blaming yourself, is similar to what mine was. People with certain traumas and coping mechanisms seek out, consciously or not, someone who they believe is safe and who will not challenge them in those areas. The CSA victim and the pathological Nice Guy is one such perfect storm, which was my situation. We were locked in a similar dynamic you were in. When I started breaking free of my issues, about 15+ years ago, it caused a lot of turbulence inside of her because I was no longer allowing her to indulge her issues.

Anyhow, your W is being honest when she says she doesn't want to work on it and doesn't see anything changing. She will balk at the divorce, though, because she fears not being able to find another man to grab onto who will let her financially leach off of him but not have to be a real wife to.

You can try to ease her concerns, perhaps, by assuring her she will find someone else much better suited to her than you are. Try to make the divorce as amicable as possible as long as she doesn't take it nuclear (but protect yourself by having a good atty advising you along the way). I used an atty this way even though we did everything ourselves via mediation. You can certainly be honest with her that you don't want to be with someone who is just using you for $$, and you are angry she has USED you for 15 years this way. But use that as a segway to how divorce will free both of you to having a much happier future.

As to getting her off the property, your attorney will have to advise you on that. We had an in-house separation for about 9 months before I was able to move out. For the most part it was polite. Sometimes it was tense, but mostly we just did our own thing and didn't go looking for confrontation. If she stays in your home for a while it can be done without fighting. Perhaps you can set some expectation she will find a new place within 90 days (or whatever makes sense where you are), and use that as a more gentle transition emotionally for her than just kicking her to the curb immediately.

Idk what your W's fears or motivations will be in the divorce process, but for my wife she really wanted to preserve her image publicly and in her side of the family as a blameless and good person. If you can figure out what your W's concerns are, you have valuable information on how to move things along towards your goals.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Get to a good family attorney's office and file first. Then you can make the legal motion in court to extricate her during the divorce process. With good cause presented to the court, she'll be given so many days to vacate or to show cause to the court why she shouldn't have to vacate. 

Either way, if the house is deemed to be community property, then it will have to be sold or split up along with other community assets in order to buy or negotiate her share out!

As is, she is having her cake and eating it too! The court will not continue to let her do that!

Get to your lawyers office like yesterday!*


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Mediator might be ok. But it sounds like she might not be able to hold up her end of the mediation... she'll just freeze.
> 
> Is she shocked that you want a divorce? Besides freezing, what's her reaction?
> 
> I find it curious that she would tell you that years ago she stopped wanting much to do with you but she expects you to stay married to her. Very odd.


Most people who know her would not find this odd at all. Her reaction to anything new, unfamiliar, different, troubling, awesome - is to be frozen in fear. Sometimes for months. As a perfectionist, she takes YEARS to figure out how to "properly" dispose of things like cell phones because "our personal information might be on them" . So, she does nothing, rather than doing a web search!

I think I'm getting somewhere. I gathered all my patience, all my compassion and empathy and began the talk. Any discussion of us splitting should not be news to her - 15 years ago when she snapped and quit giving a crap, she actually said "well, it's clear I don't belong here, I'll just file for divorce and wish you well." It wasn't an argument, it was simply said to me. And periodically, she'd send me emails saying "this isn't my life, I'm leaving" and then not leave. I got very serious about getting things improved about three years ago, and that's when I started seeing our MC...and she saw the MC a few times then said "they never help" and quit. While with the MC, said MC said, more than once "people who are as far apart as you two rarely stay together"...so, splitting is not a new discussion topic.

It took me two hours to get her to keep her face aimed at me while we talked. Usually she prefers to pretend to listen while she's doing email or other stuff, and I chase her around the house trying to stay connected. This time she sat. I can see the fear on her face, and I then attempted the D word talk and the "trial S" talk...when the D word came up, I could see the fear level rising to the point that she was about to check out...and if that happens, there is no discussion for a month at least.

We must have been in 1-on-1 conversations for 30 hours last week and I'm emotionally drained. She questioned every idea - even though I was pretty sure I'd made them make sense. Like "for 12 years, you have claimed you were happier before we got married, and you were much happier as a renter. rather than a homeowner. Do you remember this?" Looking glum, she says "Yes, I remember". So, I say, maybe it's time to test that theory - you find another place to live for three months and see if you really are happier without me and a house. She replied "Why do I have to be the one to move?" I'm flummoxed because I can't see a more logical conclusion to her complaints - if the house is what you want away from, don't you have to leave it in order to test your claim?

By the end of the week, she had found a place and rather than rent, had applied to purchase it - just a little trailer in a gated community. BUt it would be her first house in her own name. Low maintenance, thankfully. And, she's telling all our friends that she decided we need a trial separation and she's moving, and frankly she doesn't care if I come with her or not - ever.

However - she has buyer's remorse even if she never buys a thing! "I feel so awful that I was even THINKING about buying a dress..." So, the fact that she signed a binding contract to purchase does not mean she will actually carry through with it.

The reason I didn't just hire a lawyer and file is due to her fears - mostly, she freezes. But sometimes she takes drastic action. As long as I can keep her fears at a low enough level, we'll be able to handle a negotiation of assets...and she has said, many times, that she "does not deserve half" because...well, it's complicated but I'm OK with it. Also, as one attorney told me, 50/50 is not always the decision a court makes...in our case, since I run a business that needs some space, a court would probably decide I need more than half, as her minimalist lifestyle needs little. But...as the same attorney said "you really don't want to get to court, because that will annoy a judge and he's going to charge one of you with court and attorney costs".

So...the finish line is not yet in sight. But the starting line is starting to get fuzzy behind me.

*sigh*


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *Get to a good family attorney's office and file first. Then you can make the legal motion in court to extricate her during the divorce process. With good cause presented to the court, she'll be given so many days to vacate or to show cause to the court why she shouldn't have to vacate.
> 
> Either way, if the house is deemed to be community property, then it will have to be sold or split up along with other community assets in order to buy or negotiate her share out!
> 
> ...


Unless you're making assumptions that I'm not aware of, your posting really makes no sense to me. What "cake" is she eating? Why would a house have to be "sold or split up"? I thought 50/50 was total assets. As the house is less than 50%, would it not simply become part of one person's assets? Under what grounds would a court extricate someone from a house? There is no domestic violence here....


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I don't know about your state, but here this would be a matter for the courts. If you were awarded the house in the divorce, she'd be given X days to move once the divorce is finalized. If she were to refuse to leave on that date, you'd have the sheriffs dept come out to forcibly remove her and her belongings. (For some reason, local police don't do evictions here and it's always handled by the county sheriffs office.)
> 
> I live where I live because I can afford the cost of housing here. I know many people who had divorces, job changes, or who were priced out of their preferred neighborhoods as rent increased over time. Those people generally handled the problem of housing costs by looking for less expensive housing in nearby areas or taking on roommates. If she can't afford the cost of houses or apartments in your area, she'll have to suck it up and move to where she can afford to live or take on roommates just like everybody else.


Here in Oregon, the courts consider a non-child divorce that makes it to court to be a problem and treat you pretty harshly. You don't want to go there. Court dates are usually set 10-12 months out, and in cases of no children, the county family court tells me fewer than 2% make it to court.

You can enter mediation and submit a form to the court indicating that mediation has been chosen. The results of the mediation then get handed to the court, which signs it, and it's now enforceable by the court. Our courts don't want asset battles determined by judges. They DO want all child custody cases to be reviewed by a judge, and IMO, that's sensible.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

SadSamIAm said:


> Not sure where you live, but where I live, you will need to give her 50% of what you own. She also gets 50% of the debt though too.
> 
> So offer to buy her an apartment and money equivalent to 50% of the equity in your property. This should get her to 'un-freeze' and see a way out of this marriage she doesn't want.
> 
> ...


I've read up on Oregon and other states and as far as I can tell, nobody actually requires 50/50. Most state websites claim that a court will demand you go 50/50 if you're so lame as to not come to agreement without court. And, the 50/50 might be adjusted if, for instance, one party has significantly higher medical expenses than the other. Or in my case, I need this amount of space to run my business. Or, one attorney told me, if there's a history of one party claiming the same financial claim over and over - that she wants small and simple and low-cost. A "lifestyle choice", evidenced by years of email claims, can make this difference.

The money is all ours, jointly, there's no "hers" and "mine" in this, so any time I offer to spend money, she feels the pain...doesn't matter if I write the check or she does...it's the same pool and she knows it.

We're old...and don't need to earn. She happens to work, but that's so she's not at home evening hours when I'm home.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

DustyDog said:


> Unless you're making assumptions that I'm not aware of, your posting really makes no sense to me. What "cake" is she eating? Why would a house have to be "sold or split up"? I thought 50/50 was total assets. As the house is less than 50%, would it not simply become part of one person's assets? Under what grounds would a court extricate someone from a house? There is no domestic violence here....


*Easy! For instance: If they are not residing in a community property state; if he owned the house prior to marriage; if it is inherited or gifted property, more especially to him.

And you don't necessarily need the element of domestic violence to extricate someone from a domicile provided that one partner can show a greater latitude in "ownership."*


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Is she working? How does her income compare to yours? If she earns significantly less, she'll probably get alimony, at least temporarily. Either way, money shouldn't be a huge problem for her - it may just be misperception or fear, not reality.


She fears everything, especially not having enough money. But we have plenty.

In six months, she qualifies for social security - I'm a few years later. The attorneys I spoke with said that when you're that close, there's never alimony. Alimony is supposed to help a spouse go to school or whatever to improve their skills to increase their income, but at our ages, this is not a consideration. 

Her family of origin was upper middle class, but they professed, all the time that they were broke. "Mom, I want..." "you can't have it, we're poor". So, no matter how much money the family had, they were still poor, and the parents manipulated the kids by saying things like "if you do that, we'll go broke and then you'll never eat again". The fear of being broke was drilled in from a young age. AND - in a negative enough way that none of the 8 kids bothered to get the kind of education that would net a good income!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

DustyDog said:


> Here in Oregon, the courts consider a non-child divorce that makes it to court to be a problem and treat you pretty harshly. You don't want to go there. Court dates are usually set 10-12 months out, and in cases of no children, the county family court tells me fewer than 2% make it to court.
> 
> You can enter mediation and submit a form to the court indicating that mediation has been chosen. The results of the mediation then get handed to the court, which signs it, and it's now enforceable by the court. Our courts don't want asset battles determined by judges. They DO want all child custody cases to be reviewed by a judge, and IMO, that's sensible.


Here, you get your first court date within -/+ 3 months. It's a "case management conference" where the judge will check on progress re: asset division and any custody or support issues. At that time, the judge will sign any necessary emergency orders and generally tell the couple what he expects to be worked out by the next hearing in 2-3 months. 

Just like Oregon, judges do NOT want to have to make determinations when divorcing spouses refuse to agree. So, if you're the spouse refusing to leave the home when it is more reasonable for you to leave or the home is the other spouses asset from prior to marriage, you'll be hit pretty hard by the guy or gal with the gavel.

Mediation is also an option here. Generally, at the case management conference, a judge will go ahead and finalize the divorce if the couple has agreed on the terms with a mediator or on their own.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *Easy! For instance: If they are not residing in a community property state; if he owned the house prior to marriage; if it is inherited or gifted property, more especially to him.
> 
> And you don't necessarily need the element of domestic violence to extricate someone from a domicile provided that one partner can show a greater latitude in "ownership."*


In practical terms, all states act as if they are "community property" or "marital property" states. Over the past few years, I've had perhaps a dozen friends get divorced in a no-child situation. Many of the states involved do not officially claim to be "community property" but in all cases, the courts, if involved, went 50/50 on what I'd call "marital property".

And...those WERE a lot of assumptions on your part. Usually better to ask.

This is an older couple, and as with many, we are debt-free and the house is less than half the assets.


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