# I don’t think I was ever in love with my husband



## cncrnd21 (Jul 2, 2021)

My husband and I have been together for 17 years now, since we were teenagers. We’ve been married for 6 years and have a toddler together. Our relationship has gone through many phases, including some that I would call toxic. We have been happy at many times too, but I don’t know that I’ve ever been fully satisfied. We have similar outlooks on life, goals, and interests, and obviously have a long history so things can feel “comfortable” most of the time.

However there are issues with trust, feeling supported or feelings validated. We also have terrible communication and so when it blows up, it really blows up. He gaslights me and then I get so upset that he would play such a and cuss him out. I feel like those things are hard to get over because there is not the underlying “in love” feeling there and never was.

Throughout our college years I broke up with him constantly, when I felt he was treating me poorly. He always begged for us to get back together and I always caved. We have only ever been with each other, and I didn’t have the experience or the confidence to be stern about my decision. I always felt bad that I was hurting him by wanting to break up. When he proposed I remember feeling pressured to say yes but not wanting to. When I married him, I remember feeling deep down it was a mistake but I thought hopefully it would work.

Recently we had a huge argument in front of our toddler and the toddler cried and it really just broke me. I don’t think it’s healthy for our toddler to witness and I am mad at myself for bringing my child into this. We were in counseling and considering divorce when I unexpectedly got pregnant. 

I asked for a divorce once and for all. And of course again he says no and tries to guilt me about our toddler needing to grow up with us together. I feel like I want our toddler to grow up in a happy home, even if that means me being single for the rest of my life. I don’t know what to do. There’s a lot more in the situation but too much to go through, but I feel like why put up with the gaslighting and the fights in front of the kid when I’m not even in love with him. Or is this something I should just try harder to fix and be satisfied with what I have because it could be worse?

I just don’t want to end up like my parents who have been married for 40+ years and fight daily and should have divorced long ago.

I’m in desperate need of advice (or encouragement).


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

One thing is certain, you can’t stay in an environment like this, nobody could or should. What you do about it is another matter. Raising a child with both mom and dad around is best for the kid, IF the relationship is loving and caring. Yours doesn’t seem to have that quality. Gaslighting is a big deal and I’ve never seen a gaslighter get better or stop that particular behavior.

It doesn’t sound like counseling was successful or maybe you didn’t go enough? Do you expect that anything will improve your current situation? Do you see yourself loving him again? If not, you really only have one option and I’d start by getting my environment as a single person with a kid in order. Do you have family and friends you can stay with? Do you have a job that can afford you basic necessities? Have you talked to a lawyer and sorted out what a spouse who doesn’t want a divorce involves?

You’ve tried “hoping” things will get better. It sounds like it’s time to be practical.


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## cncrnd21 (Jul 2, 2021)

FlaviusMaximus said:


> One thing is certain, you can’t stay in an environment like this, nobody could or should. What you do about it is another matter. Raising a child with both mom and dad around is best for the kid, IF the relationship is loving and caring. Yours doesn’t seem to have that quality. Gaslighting is a big deal and I’ve never seen a gaslighter get better or stop that particular behavior.
> 
> It doesn’t sound like counseling was successful or maybe you didn’t go enough? Do you expect that anything will improve your current situation? Do you see yourself loving him again? If not, you really only have one option and I’d start by getting my environment as a single person with a kid in order. Do you have family and friends you can stay with? Do you have a job that can afford you basic necessities? Have you talked to a lawyer and sorted out what a spouse who doesn’t want a divorce involves?
> 
> You’ve tried “hoping” things will get better. It sounds like it’s time to be practical.


Thanks for your reply. I actually have talked to a lawyer and know pretty well what divorce would entail. I also have a stable job and I am the breadwinner in the family, which is another source of issues because I feel like my husband is threatened by how much I make. I can stay with my parents while things get situated, but my husband just doesn’t want to let me go. He said we haven’t tried hard enough with counseling and wants to go back. I don’t think counseling will change the gaslighting and I feel like he manipulated our last therapist. He has the education qualifications to be a therapist so I feel like he used that to his advantage to paint a picture that was not accurate. And then even if therapy would help the gaslighting, is the “in love” feeling important enough that we would fail anyway?


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

I think the equation is pretty simple: you don’t gaslight people you love so either he would try to better his behavior because he loves you OR he would keep it up because he wants to control you. Not wanting you to leave may very well be because he has someone to control. That’s worth considering. 

Being in love is important, but is it enough? I’ve known couples who’ve stuck it out in miserable marriages because they “loved” the other person, but that comes at quite a cost. I’ve known couples who’ve split because the relationship was toxic, but they still loved the person they were leaving. All situations are unique, but it is worth considering “love” as the result of commitment, caring, trust and honesty. Love doesn’t come first or stand on its own.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

The problem is that you don’t respect and admire your husband. You have more power in the relationship, you break up with him and he chases you to get you back.
You are the breadwinner, not him (and based on your post, I gather not even similar incomes). And it doesn’t sound like he’s providing any leadership in your marriage/family.

I’m not blaming you for this. This kind of scenario typically makes it extremely difficult for a woman to respect her husband as a man and husband.
And without that, it’s difficult to be attracted to him, and nearly impossible to be in love with him.

The best thing you can do for both of you is to tell him everything you wrote. Tell him that you’re not in love with him and you’re not sure that you ever were. He deserves to know the truth and understand the reality of his situation.

He needs to know this even though it will hurt him deeply. Keeping the truth from him in an attempt to spare his feelings will only hurt him more in the long run.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I do think you should divorce him and let him go, don’t string him along anymore, becaUse your whole relationship has been you stringing him along.

I am always saddened when I hear someone saying they didn’t want to get married, then they go on to have children. Never loved them, broke up several times, but still married. Never loved them, but bought a house, played house. Never loved them, let’s have a kid.

Nobody forced you, and you keep breaking up then playing house and decades pass and you’re still hurting him. You had so many chances to say no, and it’s also terribly sad that you’re staying for what, out of guilt?? Do you not want to be the bad guy?? Please take some responsibility for this!

I’m not judging you or being cruel, I can’t imagine what it must be like to keep being this unhappy, but I can’t imagine how he must be feeling all these years either, lying awake beside you wondering what he can do tomorrow hoping you just might love him.

Unless I’m missing some information, what’s the gaslighting about?

Has there been any infidelity on your end, is there another man in your thoughts? All of this is ‘I don’t love him and never did’, so let him be with a woman who does love him, I agree you shouldn’t continue counselling. I agree you should proceed with divorce and be happy.

If you don’t love someone, then you should not care enough about how he will feel when it’s over.

Who, really, are you more worried about when the decision becomes final??


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatever you decide, stop rowing in front of the child. You have self control so use it. Poor kid.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You already have a long history of proof that he was a mistake you made. Your gut instinct is probably right.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

DudeInProgress said:


> I’m not blaming you for this. This kind of scenario typically makes it extremely difficult for a woman to respect her husband as a man and husband.
> And without that, it’s difficult to be attracted to him, and nearly impossible to be in love with him.


I wouldn't respect a gaslighter, either. A gaslighter is a liar. Plain and simple.

However, the "not blaming" is something I have a hard time with. I don't blame you for disrespecting his behavior..... however:



cncrnd21 said:


> there is not the underlying “in love” feeling there and never was.


So, who is the "gaslighter" here ? If you disrespect him for gaslighting, then you owe yourself an equal measure. You are participating in a facade. A con game. You have been from the beginning.



cncrnd21 said:


> I feel like those things are hard to get over because


Well, you may "feel like" it, however, your feelings are not the TRUTH. "Things" are "hard to get over" because we, as humans, feel better about ourselves if we have a garbage heap of resentments to nurture. Blaming someone else for OUR OWN failings.



cncrnd21 said:


> I always felt bad that I was hurting him by wanting to break up.


Ok, well, here is the news...... you allow yourself to feel "less bad" .... you are making no attempt whatsoever to make your marriage and your family work. Not even for your child.

THIS is what you should "feel bad" about...... more news..... you are hurting him FAR WORSE by staying than you will by going, if you continue to choose to live YOUR lie..... your husband needs a wife who will admire him and respect him. You don't. 

The three doors:

Behind door #1 is the continued farce and con game, where your child has no choice but to live in a broken home. This is guaranteed to fail.

Behind door #2 is freedom for BOTH you and him to find a marriage in which there is mutual respect, and your child gets reared in that ambience and learns to have similar surroundings in his/her own life to come. This may fail, but has a chance of success.

Behind door #3 is a fixed marriage, in which you resolve that you will, from this day forward, respect your husband in word and actions. No more "cussing out". See yourself as no better than him. This will not fail. But it is the most difficult "door".

Dr. Phil so aptly says "...a child shouldn't be born with a job....". Please don't make it your child's job to keep peace in your family and to fail at putting love in it.


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## cncrnd21 (Jul 2, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Unless I’m missing some information, what’s the gaslighting about?
> 
> Has there been any infidelity on your end, is there another man in your thoughts?


An example of the gaslighting: we were packing up to leave the lake and I put what I was holding in and he was putting our kid in the backseat. I then got in my seat up front. Next thing I know, he’s opening the back door and our kid almost fell out. Turns out he hadn’t put him in the car seat and he was moving around freely and almost fell. I said why would you do that. That’s one of the most common ways kids get serious head injuries. He said he was in the car with a grownup (me) and I should have made sure he didn’t fall. I said I had no idea you did that how was I supposed to make sure he didn’t fall. I was upfront looking forward and never knew you didn’t strap him in. He went on to blame me and said if I was paying attention more to my kid maybe I would have known. I didn’t take that lightly. I absolutely adore my kid and I am so diligent with him. I put in most of the work when it comes to our child. And I recognize mistakes happen- he could have just said I wasn’t thinking. Instead he tried to call MY parenting into question in order to blame me. And if I ever respond with wtf, he just shifts the conversation to me using the F word in a sentence so we don’t have to talk about what happened in the first place.

There has absolutely been no infidelity on my end. I wouldn’t be surprised if I end up single for the rest of my life. I am not thinking of anyone else, nor have I ever been with anyone else. And if we want to talk about infidelity, I perceive it to have been on his end: a couple years ago we were at a get together at a friends house where everyone had been drinking. I had not because I’d come late because of a conflict. They saw me there but maybe didn’t remember because of the drinking? Not sure. But he went hand-in-hand into the bathroom with a friend’s wife. I watched them with my own eyes. I went to try to open the door and they were behind it and it was too heavy to force open. But I could see that the lights were off. They panicked and the woman said I’m using the restroom. I said okay and I stood out of sight for a few moments until my husband came walking out like I knew he would. I left that party and we almost divorced then. He kept telling me that they were laughing about who could get to the bathroom first. But yet they both went inside. I asked why the lights were off then and he said I was mistaken and the lights weren’t off and it was stupid and innocent. Later on the woman text me to apologize and I asked her about the lights being off, she said yeah we just didn’t have time to turn them on. Both stupid excuses, but the point is that I was right. But he tried to make me doubt what I saw with my own eyes. Then he let our friends start a narrative that I was overreacting and I was the cause of the break in the group friendship. Not him and the other woman going to the bathroom causing the break; me. Gaslighting.

Now that was a few years back and I tried to get over it, because I do love and care for him as a person. How could I not- I’ve known him for almost 20 years. But what I am saying is that we are not “in love.” And I feel like I was a young teenager who didn’t know what she thought she knew.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

So you had all these issues with him, broke up several times and then married him anyway. Then you bring a baby into the situation and now want to take the baby's father away and raise him in a single parent home. And now you want encouragement? You certainly did not bless this baby's life. As soon as he is old enough, you need to apologize to him for bringing him into this mess.


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## cncrnd21 (Jul 2, 2021)

Diceplayer said:


> So you had all these issues with him, broke up several times and then married him anyway. Then you bring a baby into the situation and now want to take the baby's father away and raise him in a single parent home. And now you want encouragement? You certainly did not bless this baby's life. As soon as he is old enough, you need to apologize to him for bringing him into this mess.


Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realize marriages were supposed to be perfect before children. I don’t know that staying is a blessing to him any more than separating. I don’t want to take away his father. I am happy to have a good co parenting relationship. Many people do it. Or am I wrong about that too?


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Awwww...she got her feelings hurt. You've already made up your mind as to what you're going to do. Just do it. Why bother looking for validation and encouragement from a bunch of internet strangers. Just use more common sense before you hook up with the next man and vet him better than you did your husband because next time you will be involving him with your baby. You've had nothing good to say about your husband so I'm curious as to what he would say about you


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

cncrnd21 said:


> Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realize marriages were supposed to be perfect before children. I don’t know that staying is a blessing to him any more than separating. I don’t want to take away his father. I am happy to have a good co parenting relationship. Many people do it. Or am I wrong about that too?


It is harsh, but also a dose of reality. You said it yourself, you were constantly breaking up with this guy in the years your were together and your relationship is toxic. You said about 4 positive words in your first post. Yet you got married to him and had a baby. Given all the negativity you expressed in your post, what evidence does any one here have that you have a shot at a good co-parenting relationship?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

cncrnd21 said:


> Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realize marriages were supposed to be perfect before children. I don’t know that staying is a blessing to him any more than separating. I don’t want to take away his father. I am happy to have a good co parenting relationship. Many people do it. Or am I wrong about that too?


You’re just rationalizing and defending now. Are you listening to what people are telling you here? Or were you just hoping for a mindless “you go girl!” so you don’t have to self-reflect at all?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

cncrnd21 said:


> Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realize marriages were supposed to be perfect before children. I don’t know that staying is a blessing to him any more than separating. I don’t want to take away his father. I am happy to have a good co parenting relationship. Many people do it. Or am I wrong about that too?


And there it is - Bingo.

The rage. 😉


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## cncrnd21 (Jul 2, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It is harsh, but also a dose of reality. You said it yourself, you were constantly breaking up with this guy in the years your were together and your relationship is toxic. You said about 4 positive words in your first post. Yet you got married to him and had a baby. Given all the negativity you expressed in your post, what evidence does any one here have that you have a shot at a good co-parenting relationship?


I am happy to get a dose of reality. I do want to make sure it is based on an accurate picture. Well as much as you can in an internet post. I was sharing what I feel it all boils down to. But I do think my husband loves me and is a kind, giving person. We share the same goals and determination. And I also think he is a good dad although I feel like he could help me more with our child. He does however do a lot around the house which is nice. Where I lack he is strong and vice versa.

We have been together for 17 years. We obviously get along. I just feel this instances of miscommunication and then gaslighting turn into angry fights. And that part is toxic I think. He said he doesn’t think we are toxic but just have bad communication.

In an effort to self reflect and really accept my own responsibility, I started to question whether I was ever really in love. I feel like I was young and dumb and feeling pressured. Even from friends and family because to them he is a nice guy. I never had any guidance to dig deep and put my own happiness first, it was always pleasing everyone else. I am old enough now to stand on my own two feet and realize only I can be accountable for my decisions and I can’t blame them. That doesn’t change the fact that with age I see clearer now.

I desperately just want to make the right choice for my child. I could go to counseling and try to make it work for his sake. I’ve been here all this time, I could do it some more. But is that really the right thing to do? Or is it a set up for failure and prolonging the inevitable. I thought deeply about this and I do think I could do it but it would be at my own expense later in life, just like my parents. And maybe that’s okay. Maybe that’s what I deserve.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

You’re 17 years in, never loved him and angry at yourself, not us. Or your husband. You cannot keep telling us he’s guilted you or you care about hurting him for 17 years after that outburst.

Yes, divorce him, it won’t hurt him at all later. I’m sure a person who is trying everything, suggesting counselling and thinking of his family is a great catch for a woman dreaming about meeting Mr Right.

And then leave him alone!


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## cncrnd21 (Jul 2, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> You’re just rationalizing and defending now. Are you listening to what people are telling you here? Or were you just hoping for a mindless “you go girl!” so you don’t have to self-reflect at all?


Definitely want to self reflect. I feel like self reflecting is what got me to this conclusion.

As for my response to that person, I felt they were just off base. I accepted the previous posts which were fair criticism of me.

I am not looking to be blameless. I said in my original post I am mad at myself. I just don’t know what the right thing is to do and where to go from here.


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## cncrnd21 (Jul 2, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Yes, divorce him, it won’t hurt him at all later. I’m sure a person who is trying everything, suggesting counselling and thinking of his family is a great catch for a woman dreaming about meeting Mr Right.


I don’t know that he is trying everything when he constantly gaslights. But I do think he is a good catch and a good person. I wouldn’t be surprised if he remarried and I stayed single forever.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

We all have only one life to live. If you have come to the realization that deep down you know you never loved your husband, then what are you doing in this relationship? Specially for a woman in a relationship with a man that she doesn't respect or love. It must be awful to be intimate with that person. Do you feel like taking a bath or cuddling after the sex? this can tell you a lot about what is it that you are doing in this relationship.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

_‘_I wouldn’t be surprised if he remarried and I stayed single forever’

This is ok and a good outcome, it’s ok not to love someone, it’s not a crime. And this is a good outcome for your child too, don’t torture yourself.

The other thing is your parents’ marriage, maybe that may be driving this? It may be clouding your ability to let go and love anyone. It can’t have been easy carrying this.

Your future doesn’t have to be theirs. How amazing would it be to actually fall in love, either with your husband or someone else & say, no, that’s not going to happen to me!!

Too many people would rather be alone than really deeply fall in love - I know it’s an option, but think 20, 30 years ahead… do you really see yourself alone? Why deny yourself love??

You get one chance, maybe see yourself through the eyes of the new woman he may meet, could you be this woman? Really visualise yourself as that giddy woman staring at him, lovestruck - how does that feel?

If you can’t, or it repulses you, then picture yourself NOT having your parents’ outcome, see yourself with another man maybe? How does this idea sound? Examine both visions and really look into what feelings come out - fear, repulsion, or a feeling or excitement and possibility?


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

cncrnd21 said:


> I desperately just want to make the right choice for my child. I could go to counseling and try to make it work for his sake. I’ve been here all this time, I could do it some more. But is that really the right thing to do? Or is it a set up for failure and prolonging the inevitable. I thought deeply about this and I do think I could do it but it would be at my own expense later in life, just like my parents. And maybe that’s okay. *Maybe that’s what I deserve.*


It's not that you deserve to be punished. It's just that our consequences are the results of the choices we make. It's up to each individual as what they do with those consequences. Some will learn and grow from them and be better for it. Others will blame other people, become bitter and self destruct. But since a child has been brought into the picture, you have to put your own desires behind what's best for the child. Only you know the real situation and only you can make those decisions. Self reflection will be necessary and you may not like what you find, but it is the path to healing. Start by reflecting on why your husband treats you the way he does. Is it just his nature or is it in response to the way you treat him.


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## cncrnd21 (Jul 2, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> You get one chance, maybe see yourself through the eyes of the new woman he may meet, could you be this woman? Really visualise yourself as that giddy woman staring at him, lovestruck - how does that feel?
> 
> If you can’t, or it repulses you, then picture yourself NOT having your parents’ outcome, see yourself with another man maybe? How does this idea sound? Examine both visions and really look into what feelings come out - fear, repulsion, or a feeling or excitement and possibility?


Thank you for this. It is really helpful and I am working through this exercise.


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## CootaCat5 (Jun 29, 2021)

Hi,

have you ever been physically attracted to him. Honestly, what would people rate you and him out of ten?



QUOTE="cncrnd21, post: 20328867, member: 350299"]
An example of the gaslighting: we were packing up to leave the lake and I put what I was holding in and he was putting our kid in the backseat. I then got in my seat up front. Next thing I know, he’s opening the back door and our kid almost fell out. Turns out he hadn’t put him in the car seat and he was moving around freely and almost fell. I said why would you do that. That’s one of the most common ways kids get serious head injuries. He said he was in the car with a grownup (me) and I should have made sure he didn’t fall. I said I had no idea you did that how was I supposed to make sure he didn’t fall. I was upfront looking forward and never knew you didn’t strap him in. He went on to blame me and said if I was paying attention more to my kid maybe I would have known. I didn’t take that lightly. I absolutely adore my kid and I am so diligent with him. I put in most of the work when it comes to our child. And I recognize mistakes happen- he could have just said I wasn’t thinking. Instead he tried to call MY parenting into question in order to blame me. And if I ever respond with wtf, he just shifts the conversation to me using the F word in a sentence so we don’t have to talk about what happened in the first place.

There has absolutely been no infidelity on my end. I wouldn’t be surprised if I end up single for the rest of my life. I am not thinking of anyone else, nor have I ever been with anyone else. And if we want to talk about infidelity, I perceive it to have been on his end: a couple years ago we were at a get together at a friends house where everyone had been drinking. I had not because I’d come late because of a conflict. They saw me there but maybe didn’t remember because of the drinking? Not sure. But he went hand-in-hand into the bathroom with a friend’s wife. I watched them with my own eyes. I went to try to open the door and they were behind it and it was too heavy to force open. But I could see that the lights were off. They panicked and the woman said I’m using the restroom. I said okay and I stood out of sight for a few moments until my husband came walking out like I knew he would. I left that party and we almost divorced then. He kept telling me that they were laughing about who could get to the bathroom first. But yet they both went inside. I asked why the lights were off then and he said I was mistaken and the lights weren’t off and it was stupid and innocent. Later on the woman text me to apologize and I asked her about the lights being off, she said yeah we just didn’t have time to turn them on. Both stupid excuses, but the point is that I was right. But he tried to make me doubt what I saw with my own eyes. Then he let our friends start a narrative that I was overreacting and I was the cause of the break in the group friendship. Not him and the other woman going to the bathroom causing the break; me. Gaslighting.

Now that was a few years back and I tried to get over it, because I do love and care for him as a person. How could I not- I’ve known him for almost 20 years. But what I am saying is that we are not “in love.” And I feel like I was a young teenager who didn’t know what she thought she knew.
[/QUOTE]


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Sorry you are in this situation. At the same time it is of your own making. You should of stood your ground when you realized that you didn’t love him way back then. 

He is a cheater by what you have said. You should have divorced him after the party. 

It really doesn’t matter if your husband wants the divorce or not. File and let it run through the courts, he is either going to play ball or drag his feet. Either way you will be divorced in the end. 

I hope you find true love one day.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Your car seat story doesn’t sound like gas lighting to me.

gas lighting is when someone lies to you to make you think you are crazy. Like, you cannot trust your own thoughts. Someone is trying “re-write” your own memory.

secondly, I think you are both at fault in that story. You bit his head off for making a mistake. He was clearly embarrassed and lashed back at you due to that embarrassment instead of maturely stating “I made a mistake. I’m sorry”.

still, I can understand where his lashing out comes from. Do you continually do this? Do you inform him that he’s an “idiot” to his face often? If so, I can understand where his animosity would be coming from. No man is going to enjoy being emasculated to his face. I don’t care if you come across the most beautiful, confident, secure man in the world. Men don’t like that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Due to the fact that the creator of this thread hasn't been back in five months, Zombie cat has decided to close it down.

However, he has decided to bring some of the trainees in to see how they do.


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