# Affair after emotional detachment



## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

I am 32 years old. Was married in 2007 and my son was born in 2008. I did not adjust well to the demands of being a dad and I became emotionally detached from my wife. Things got really bad in 2013. 2014 was more peaceful but I was working too much think about our issues. But my wife had been spending a lot more time away from home and I accused her of cheating. She always denied it because she was also out with friends. I found evidence of an affair a few weeks ago but waited to bring it up this weekend. She has been seeing someone else for a year. Discrete she said. No other friends involved. Mostly for the emotional connection. There was sex involved too. Our sex life has been lacking due to her low drive after child birth and my inability to learn her body. Our sex life before childbirth was fantastic. The affair was in response to years of my neglect of being emotionally available for my wife. She needs constant reinforcement to feel loved and I failed at doing that and consistently doing the things the men are supposed to do show their wives that they are appreciated. She also has deep wounds from being abandoned by her parents. I can't relate to it since I had both of mine. And I was expected to fill the void by being an awesome husband. I am well aware of the pain this has caused by my lack of the emotions of empathy and compassion but I also didn't change my actions to at least fake it while I improved. So now things are at rock bottom. Many years of her pain was dumped on me in one day after the affair was confirmed. She wants to make it work out with me but only if I change and really commit to counseling this time. We did before but stopped going. We ended up being different than what we expected from our short courtship so we need decide if we are compatible. 

My trust in her is broken. Even though I hurt her by my pulling away emotionally her affair hurts me too. I started probing her with questions and telling to her to cut off contact with the other guy and refrain from one on one contact with other men. This was on Saturday. Got worse today. She says I have a right to feel upset but asking all of these questions makes it worse. She didn't want to tell me anything at first because it would be too painful. I am hurt more by the lies and deception. She said she felt lied to and deceived as well by my actions. So the shoe is on the other foot now. She has let herself down and broke one of Gods commandments. She is a very spiritual person and our marriage is from a Christian perspective. So divorce shouldn't be an option but we are human and can only sustain so much. 

We are looking into counseling this week. 

For anyone who has been through this, is it best to avoid discussing the details of the affair or just let a counselor handle the approach? My wife said that it was a simple affair due to getting emotional fulfillment from someone else and no other details are needed. Part of me wants to hear more and part of me doesn't. I found out by snooping around after a family member said she saw my wife with another guy. She says i invaded her privacy. She just thinks i need to keep my mouth shut and focus on repairing the hole in our marriage and not focus on her infidelity. She is equally hurt by this and that seems to be clouding her ability to let me grieve. She said if I had cheated then she wouldn't want the details. At this point she is so angry with me that we may have some sort of trial separation. 

I will need my own counseling too. I don't have good emotional intelligence and I don't have the sensitive qualities that women want in a man. My wife is an amazing person and I let her down big time. Giving up would be easy but I need to improve myself even if she leaves.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

In my opinion the BS has the right to ask any question about the affaire that he or she feels they need or want to know.
the WS should be open and honest. 
Keep in mind some of the answer will hurt so if you don't want the details don't ask.

Her not wanting to talk about is akin to rug sweeping.
she might say it is to protect you but it could also be to protect her.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

You have been betrayed. 

If she wants to heal this marriage, she has a 100% obligation to tell you whatever you want to know and whenever you ask. That is part & parcel of the healing process.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

> *My wife said that it was a simple affair due to getting emotional fulfillment from someone else and no other details are needed.*


It is never simple. It is calculated deception. No details will lead to more issues and resentment. Rug sweeping is what your W is attempting to do. 

Further, your pulling away from the marriage after child birth you can own. The affair is 100% your W.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Uh.... Dude, you need to stop taking any responsibility for your wife letting another man shove his penis in her for a year.

Her slimy behavior was all her choice.

Also. She can dump the Christian talk. I am a Christian and always get pissed when cheaters claim my faith. Christ was no where near her thoughts while betraying Him and you and your children.

You might want to read No More Mr. Nice Guy. I don't give you two good odds. You need to get seriously angry at what she has done to your family and not own her affair.

She needs a very sharp slap back to reality and realize what a disgusting person she has become.

Unless she displays true remorse, you have no chance.

Expose her to your parents, both sets and if the idiot that has been exploring your wife is married or has a girlfriend, expose to them as well.

Read up chum. You are doing a lot wrong here. Sorry she chose to destroy her family for the sake of being a cheap piece for another man.

Your marital issues are on you both. Her cheating is all hers. Unless you helped the other man have intercourse with her?

Yeh. Didn't think so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S
God hates infidelity too and says you can divorce over it. If your wife doesn't get her cheating ass in gear, that is your best option. You should have her served to show her the seriousness of her stupidity. You don't have to proceed if she gets with the program.

Both of you get tested for STDs immediately. She has endangered your life.

Might want to DNA the kids as well. Even if you are sure they are yours, she needs to understand how much she has damaged trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

The lies and deception is what hurt most. I have never cheated sexually or emotionally with anyone. I have used porn to release sexual tension when my wife was unwilling or not able to have sex. I didn't think it was a big deal and even tried to use it to spice up our sex life. It work for maybe a month. It was great. But she ultimately felt it was perverted. I don't remember her telling me to get rid of it but now she claims she felt it was cheating because I wasn't willing to focus solely on her for sexual fulfillment. She claims I always pulled away from her. It wasn't like I pulled away to be selfish. She didn't want sex anymore and when we did she didn't even enjoy it. 

At the end of the day all that matters is whether or not we are willing to let go of the past. My wife is a very genuine and spiritual person but has always kept parts of her life hidden. She kept certain things from me because of my bad attitude. She stopped talking to me about a lot because I would ask too many questions instead of listening. I definitely know she is not a heartless cheater but I also dont know if I have the energy to make it work. It's scary because I know I will have a hard time finding someone else. I'm a big introvert. My wife is an extrovert and beautiful. She will have no problem finding another man. 

For now I'm going to try to keep my mouth shut and leave it all for counseling. I did talk to my brother only because he has been through this. Prior to marriage his wife got pregnant by another guy. They made it work and he has been the full time dad for this child since birth 7 years ago. Counseling is what saved them. But they didn't have the years of pain that my wife says led her to the affair.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> P.S
> God hates infidelity too and says you can divorce over it. If your wife doesn't get her cheating ass in gear, that is your best option. You should have her served to show her the seriousness of her stupidity. You don't have to proceed if she gets with the program.
> 
> Both of you get tested for STDs immediately. She has endangered your life.
> ...


And in the OT it is a capitol offense- tells one what a holy God really thinks of it.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

I feel differently about this. Yes, I agree that the affair is on her. But he hurt her very badly, leaving her nowhere to turn for help and comfort. Our OP still seems to be somewhat insensitive to her needs. And she doesn't know how to answer his questions without hurting him even more because he is still somewhat insensitive to her.

Why don't I blame her for not coming to the OP with her problem? Simply because I think she did try to let him know -- using woman talk instead of man talk. So she thinks he rejected her (and he does understand a bit of that) and he things that had she made her need clear, he'd have responded.

There's no way out of that maze except to leave it in the past.

I think that the marriage can be saved. He needs an IC to help him understand what his wife's emotional state was when he emotionally abandoned her. And she needs to be remorseful to help him overcome the male shock at discovering that a woman's emotional needs are very important to her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Your funeral pal. Sounds like being a doormat runs in your family. Stop. Posting here and wasting our time. You have already stated your intentions to let your wife continue to cuckold you and you are going to get counseling as well as talk to your brother who is raising another man's child by his wife.

You will not find what you are looking for here.

Enjoy your life of continued pain because that is what your actions are going to bring you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BTW, Syd. I agree that it can be saved but it won't even be a near miss if OP and his betrayer continue on their current course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Sorry for your pain.

She has not stopped the A. She is not showing remorse.

If you want to stop the A, you should expose.

If you think she is beautiful on the outside, she is not so beautiful on the inside. 

do you have kids? If you do not have kids, she has cheated on you and will not give you a timeline and diary of the A. 

Does she love the OM more than you? So are you her backup plan? 

Is she pregnant from the A with the POSOM? Does she have stds? Your best bet is to file for D and see if she will stop seeing the OM. 

Have you told his SO?

Good luck, but she is selfish and does not care about you.

Do the 180 and take care of yourself so you can survive.


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

I understand Conans point but nothing is that simple. She owned her cheating but her mind is clouded by other pain. And remember this is a woman who I knew had severe emotional baggage from being abandoned in childhood. God allows divorce for adultery only because he knows how hard our hearts can get over a broken marriage. But he wants us to work things out as best as he can. This is her first serious infraction on the marriage. I'm going to go to counseling. If I can't let it go then the marriage is over. Not as punishment for her but because I would always hold it over my head. The difference between me and my wife is that she is very spiritually in tune with God. She is a minister and has a prophetic gift. The guilt she feels from letting God down is more than any punishment I can give. Trust me on this. Even the strongest Christians fall. That doesn't mean I abandon them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

knight185 said:


> I understand Conans point but nothing is that simple. She owned her cheating but her mind is clouded by other pain. And remember this is a woman who I knew had severe emotional baggage from being abandoned in childhood. God allows divorce for adultery only because he knows how hard our hearts can get over a broken marriage. But he wants us to work things out as best as he can. This is her first serious infraction on the marriage. I'm going to go to counseling. If I can't let it go then the marriage is over. Not as punishment for her but because I would always hold it over my head. The difference between me and my wife is that she is very spiritually in tune with God. She is a minister and has a prophetic gift. The guilt she feels from letting God down is more than any punishment I can give. Trust me on this. Even the strongest Christians fall. That doesn't mean I abandon them.


You are lost. I am ordained and would surrender my credentials immediately if I did a fraction of what your wife did.

Like I said, enjoy. You have a course that you have already chosen and are disregarding what wisdom is offered here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

knight185 said:


> I am 32 years old. Was married in 2007 and my son was born in 2008. I did not adjust well to the demands of being a dad and I became emotionally detached from my wife. Things got really bad in 2013. 2014 was more peaceful but I was working too much think about our issues. But my wife had been spending a lot more time away from home and I accused her of cheating. She always denied it because she was also out with friends. I found evidence of an affair a few weeks ago but waited to bring it up this weekend. She has been seeing someone else for a year. Discrete she said. No other friends involved. Mostly for the emotional connection. There was sex involved too. Our sex life has been lacking due to her low drive after child birth and my inability to learn her body. Our sex life before childbirth was fantastic. The affair was in response to years of my neglect of being emotionally available for my wife. She needs constant reinforcement to feel loved and I failed at doing that and consistently doing the things the men are supposed to do show their wives that they are appreciated. She also has deep wounds from being abandoned by her parents. I can't relate to it since I had both of mine. And I was expected to fill the void by being an awesome husband. I am well aware of the pain this has caused by my lack of the emotions of empathy and compassion but I also didn't change my actions to at least fake it while I improved. So now things are at rock bottom. Many years of her pain was dumped on me in one day after the affair was confirmed. She wants to make it work out with me but only if I change and really commit to counseling this time. We did before but stopped going. We ended up being different than what we expected from our short courtship so we need decide if we are compatible.
> 
> My trust in her is broken. Even though I hurt her by my pulling away emotionally her affair hurts me too. I started probing her with questions and telling to her to cut off contact with the other guy and refrain from one on one contact with other men. This was on Saturday. Got worse today. She says I have a right to feel upset but asking all of these questions makes it worse. She didn't want to tell me anything at first because it would be too painful. I am hurt more by the lies and deception. She said she felt lied to and deceived as well by my actions. So the shoe is on the other foot now. She has let herself down and broke one of Gods commandments. She is a very spiritual person and our marriage is from a Christian perspective. So divorce shouldn't be an option but we are human and can only sustain so much.
> *"She didn't want to tell you anything at first because it would be too painful". For whom, her or you? It may be painful for you to hear all of the sordid details but that's for you to decide, not your WW. Suddenly she's worried about your feelings. Nope she's been worried about nobody but herself. You say she's a very spiritual person. Okay we all err and fall short of God's glory everyday. To be caught in infidelity she should at least own it.*
> ...


*Do both of you need to work on some things? Yes. You need to work on your emotional aspects of being a supportive husband. Your WW has several things she needs to work on. Whatever issues from her childhood that are creating problems for her in the M. And the damage she has done having an A. She really needs to be serious about her part of the heavy lifting to repair your M if that is the goal. You cannot do it alone. Seems to me she wants to dump all of her problems on you for not being whatever it is she thinks you should be. *


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## Chas (Apr 2, 2015)

The two of you have a long history of not effectively communicating.
She was wrong to have an affair, rather than leave you do to the unhappy marriage.
You will very likely be dissatisfied with the marriage councilors approach to the situation, as many here have found that councilors are prone to rug sweep affairs.
Concentrate on your ability to communicate and be honest with each other, then progress to discussing the affair. Right now she is angry and probably can't see that her actions were the wrong thing to do in response to your apathy. That will change.
At some time in the future you can decide whether you want to reconcile or divorce. It's up to you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> I am 32 years old. Was married in 2007 and my son was born in 2008. I did not adjust well to the demands of being a dad and I became emotionally detached from my wife. Things got really bad in 2013. 2014 was more peaceful but I was working too much think about our issues. But my wife had been spending a lot more time away from home and I accused her of cheating. She always denied it because she was also out with friends. I found evidence of an affair a few weeks ago but waited to bring it up this weekend. She has been seeing someone else for a year. Discrete she said. No other friends involved. Mostly for the emotional connection. There was sex involved too. Our sex life has been lacking due to her low drive after child birth and my inability to learn her body. Our sex life before childbirth was fantastic. The affair was in response to years of my neglect of being emotionally available for my wife. She needs constant reinforcement to feel loved and I failed at doing that and consistently doing the things the men are supposed to do show their wives that they are appreciated. She also has deep wounds from being abandoned by her parents. I can't relate to it since I had both of mine. And I was expected to fill the void by being an awesome husband. I am well aware of the pain this has caused by my lack of the emotions of empathy and compassion but I also didn't change my actions to at least fake it while I improved. So now things are at rock bottom. Many years of her pain was dumped on me in one day after the affair was confirmed. She wants to make it work out with me but only if I change and really commit to counseling this time. We did before but stopped going. We ended up being different than what we expected from our short courtship so we need decide if we are compatible.


/yawn



knight185 said:


> My trust in her is broken.


As it should be.



knight185 said:


> Even though I hurt her by my pulling away emotionally her affair hurts me too. I started probing her with questions and telling to her to cut off contact with the other guy and refrain from one on one contact with other men. This was on Saturday. Got worse today. She says I have a right to feel upset but asking all of these questions makes it worse. She didn't want to tell me anything at first because it would be too painful. I am hurt more by the lies and deception. She said she felt lied to and deceived as well by my actions. So the shoe is on the other foot now.


It's always validating to see the script in action.



knight185 said:


> She has let herself down and broke one of Gods commandments. She is a very spiritual person and our marriage is from a Christian perspective. So divorce shouldn't be an option but we are human and can only sustain so much.


Divorce should ALWAYS be an option. After all, if divorce isn't on the table, what real incentive does she have to change her sh*tty behavior?



knight185 said:


> We are looking into counseling this week.


Good luck! And make sure that the counselor isn't one of those rugsweepy "you need to look past the affair and concentrate on moving forward" types.



knight185 said:


> For anyone who has been through this, is it best to avoid discussing the details of the affair or just let a counselor handle the approach? My wife said that it was a simple affair due to getting emotional fulfillment from someone else and no other details are needed. Part of me wants to hear more and part of me doesn't.


You need to know what you need to know. PERIOD. An unwillingness on her part to discuss details should be viewed as a desire to rugsweep and NOT be held accountable for her actions. 



knight185 said:


> I found out by snooping around after a family member said she saw my wife with another guy. She says i invaded her privacy.


BULLSH*T



knight185 said:


> She just thinks i need to keep my mouth shut and focus on repairing the hole in our marriage and not focus on her infidelity.


Nope



knight185 said:


> She is equally hurt by this and that seems to be clouding her ability to let me grieve.


Nope. She's in an affair fog and is experiencing OM withdrawal. Nothing more.



knight185 said:


> She said if I had cheated then she wouldn't want the details.


Again, bullsh*t. This is nothing more than an attempt to rugsweep and gaslight, thereby avoiding accountability for her actions.



knight185 said:


> At this point she is so angry with me that we may have some sort of trial separation.


LOL... sounds like a pretty convenient type of anger to me.

If she's angry at anything it's at the fact that you've broken up her affair. And that's assuming that the affair is even over at this point. My guess is that it's on hiatus _at best_.



knight185 said:


> I will need my own counseling too. I don't have good emotional intelligence and I don't have the sensitive qualities that women want in a man. My wife is an amazing person and I let her down big time. Giving up would be easy but I need to improve myself even if she leaves.


Dude... you might have some sh*t that you need to work on, but you need to stop drinking so deeply from the pitcher of Kool-Aid that she's pushing at you.

Follow-up...

Going forward, you have a reasonable expectation w/ respect to *FULL transparency*. Passwords for her devices (laptop, tablet, phone, etc), along w/ passwords for e-mail and social media accounts should be readily shared. Any refusal to commit to this should be viewed very suspiciously and, again, would indicate a lack of willingness to be held to account for her actions, in addition to the very real possibility that she hasn't ended her affair.

Who is OM? Co-worker, boss, friend, neighbor, etc? Is he married and, if so, have you exposed the affair to his wife?

Buy 2 copies of this book and read it w/ your wife...

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Linda J. MacDonald: 9781450553322: Amazon.com: Books

It's mostly for her, but there's a good bit of info in there for you as well.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
There are some basic principles that you must realize and understand. First, you WW's affair is in no way, under no circumstances and all other problems notwithstanding, your fault. There are always alternatives and cheating should not be among them. Second, despite your W's proclamation she is not as deeply spiritual as you and she purport. Third, you cannot heal from this if she is not willing to support you 100%, in every way you need and for however long you need it. She is currently blameshifting and rugsweeping in an effort to divert guilt and blame off of her and onto you. You must not allow that if you are to progress.

We all have concepts of the ideal marriage and how one should be constructed but nowhere in that ideal should be found cheating. If you were not responding as a H should, then she should have been more forceful with her expressions, scheduling therapy and asking you to attend. Failing that, she should have moved towards D. Then it would have fallen on you to better up or lose your family. What she did was akin to using gasoline to douse a blazing fire, it just fed the flames and caused even more damage.

I see her, based on your post, as demanding and entitled even after committing what most "Christians" would consider an abominable sin. Why is she not contrite and repentant, have you asked yourself this? Yes you need to improve and better yourself but her actions are still deplorable and will always be.

You seem to be fearful that you will have difficulty finding a new female and that she will have little trouble finding a new male but she may have more trouble than you think finding a man who doesn't mind her sleeping around when her "needs" are not met.

Communication is crucial in marriage and you both need serious work on that but breaking her vows, that's all on her. Good luck my friend.

ETA: A lot was being posted as I was posting. I fear that you OP are simply too far brainwashed for anything I say her to be of any consequence, regrettable. In any event, I sincerely hope that the God you serve is as lenient and able to overlook sin as you and she believe.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> I understand Conans point but nothing is that simple. She owned her cheating but her mind is clouded by other pain. And remember this is a woman who I knew had severe emotional baggage from being abandoned in childhood. God allows divorce for adultery only because he knows how hard our hearts can get over a broken marriage. But he wants us to work things out as best as he can. This is her first serious infraction on the marriage. I'm going to go to counseling. If I can't let it go then the marriage is over. Not as punishment for her but because I would always hold it over my head. The difference between me and my wife is that she is very spiritually in tune with God. She is a minister and has a prophetic gift. The guilt she feels from letting God down is more than any punishment I can give. Trust me on this. Even the strongest Christians fall. That doesn't mean I abandon them.


Dude... PLEASE do not get so lost in all of the horribly misunderstood and misquoted messages in the Bible concerning infidelity that you allow yourself, your wife, your pastor, your counselor, or ANYONE ELSE completely overlook the fact that your wife spent (AT LEAST) a year in an affair w/ another man.

PLEASE.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

She cheated because she is a cheater. This is what cheaters do. Im a born again Christian. I like to think Im in tune with God. God has always led me from temptation to cheat. Thats why I dont go to bars with my buddies. Thats why I dont flirt with coworkers. Thats why I dont hang around with members of the opposite sex. You only know of this one time because she got caught. Yes Jesus said he hated divorce, but He gave infidelity as a reason to divorce. If you both want to R thats great, but the way the two of you are going about it isnt going to work. Best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> I feel differently about this. Yes, I agree that the affair is on her. But he hurt her very badly, leaving her nowhere to turn for help and comfort. Our OP still seems to be somewhat insensitive to her needs. And she doesn't know how to answer his questions without hurting him even more because he is still somewhat insensitive to her.
> 
> Why don't I blame her for not coming to the OP with her problem? Simply because I think she did try to let him know -- using woman talk instead of man talk. So she thinks he rejected her (and he does understand a bit of that) and he things that had she made her need clear, he'd have responded.
> 
> ...


That is all well and good but perhaps getting divorced first was the correct answer. It is not complicated. Certainly less complicated than getting involved with OM.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Pay close attention to what Gus is saying.

1st, there is no healing until she gives you a COMPLETE timeline with details of the affair.
2. You are in NO WAY responsible for her affair!!!!
3.You need to find out who this man is, and expose him to his wife.
4. You need to stop finding reasons for her slimy action.
5. As a pastor she should have talked to another pastor if she was not getting what she needs, so she could learn how to get you to really listen.

But putting aside her supposed close walk with God, she's just another cheater, and that is what you need to understand.

What I'm seeing from your posts is an arrogant woman willing to use any means to keep from being held accountable. To the point of guilting you into taking the blame.

I mean, come on man, really !!! A WHOLE YEAR .
What kind of pastor that close in their walk could do that???


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

And before you repeat she is owning it...... NO SHE IS NOT if she is blaming your detachment.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

OldWolf57 said:


> And before you repeat she is owning it...... NO SHE IS NOT if she is blaming your detachment.


:iagree:


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

You don't get to screw other people then hide behind the mask of religion when you get caught. You are letting her rationalize her infidelity in a way you are willing to look past it. If wholesomeness and Godliness are indeed her guiding principals, you wouldn't be in this situation nor here.


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

She revealed where she met him and how long she has been seeing him. I don't need to know the intimate details of their encounters but I wanted to know the logistics of how things went down, who was involved, etc. I know his name and I also have his phone number. Me contacting him would be bad right now. I may do something I regret. She called him to shut things down. He was upset too. I believe she called him but I wasn't there to hear it. She did copy me on the text message and blocked his number. Our account shows no further contact with that number. I have not asked to see her phone but she knows I am requesting 100% honesty and transparency. That is what I'm insecure about now. But she said he was upset too. I imagine he knew she was married but maybe she gave him false hope. I know of the guys family and the circles he runs around it but I don't know him personally. 

I don't think she has a std but told her to get checked out anyway. 

I was just surprised at how upset she got about the questions. I think it is too much shame and embarrassment. She feels if I knew all of the details then I couldn't move on. Maybe so but if I ask I deserve to know. If things don't improve in counseling then I know where this is headed. 

I don't know if she has ever cheated before. I only suspected it around the time she says it started. Now the big issue is whether or not I can handle hearing of other affairs. I don't fault her for having a weakness. I even told myself if I had the opportunity for a sexual affair I would take it. I don't need any other emotional attachments. I'm just too introverted to act on it. So it's not my intention to "punish" her. She had felt punished long enough by my detachment. But she needs to deal with the pain no matter what. It's so bad now that she is physically sick today 

I understand the severity of the situation. It's totally my choice on whether or not I want to give her a second chance. I just think it is worth some more work on both of our parts before giving up. Now if we reconcile and move on and it happens again then we know where that is going. But divorce could be mad for me. I would get stuck paying a ton of alimony. I know some couples who separated but chose to stay legally married just to avoid financial issues and loss of benefits.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If your wife is so hurt and broken, then her instincts on how to best try to heal your marriage after her affair are also broken. She should not be in the driver's seat at all with this.

I disagree with much of what you have written, but even if I didn't, I would say that you have to stop letting her control this.

She was absolutely wrong to break her vows to you. Absolutely. She may have her own motivations, but they are not justifications, in my opinion.

The weight of opinion regarding recovering from affairs is strongly against what your WW is saying. For me, the bottom line is that she feels justified in her behavior and now thinks you have to jump through hoops that she defines to try to recover your marriage. This won't work. You will be very unhappy and your reconciliation will most likely be doomed.

She needs to admit to you and herself that if she was so unhappy, she could have divorced. If she didn't think divorce was an option, then she needed to address the marital problems within the marriage. I hope you will stop letting her confuse you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You need checked for STDs as well. She endangered your health and possibly your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Is he married??

Dude, if she did the nasty for a whole year, do you really think there is no emotional involvement, and she can really just go cold turkey???
She is not the 1st to get caught and say it's over, but then go get a burner phone to contact him.

Oh, and she's sick from withdrawl. After a yr of injection, her body is needing that chemical fix.

Read up on this stuff man.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

knight185 said:


> She revealed where she met him and how long she has been seeing him. I don't need to know the intimate details of their encounters but I wanted to know the logistics of how things went down, who was involved, etc. I know his name and I also have his phone number. Me contacting him would be bad right now. I may do something I regret. She called him to shut things down. He was upset too. I believe she called him but I wasn't there to hear it. She did copy me on the text message and blocked his number. Our account shows no further contact with that number. I have not asked to see her phone but she knows I am requesting 100% honesty and transparency. That is what I'm insecure about now. But she said he was upset too. I imagine he knew she was married but maybe she gave him false hope. I know of the guys family and the circles he runs around it but I don't know him personally.
> 
> I don't think she has a std but told her to get checked out anyway.
> 
> ...


Sir, with all do respect...you are not in the driver seat. Your W is still orchestrating this affair.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP:

have got to tell you that regardless of how you view your wife, there are a lot of people in your church and other churchs that would be made sick if they knew the "genuine" her. your description of her already does it for me.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

With the total destruction of trust caused by her affair, it is extremely difficult to be emotionally available, let alone emotionally attracted to her.

Ironically, the thing she blames for her affair, your emotional detachment, is what often helps a BS to endure the emotional ordeal and make good, rational choices. It is often what is recommended via the implementation of the 180 degrees.

In any case, if the two of you make the commitment of marital reconciliation, then BOTH have to address your individual issues through individual and marital therapy. Rug sweeping the affair and your personal issues, is simply not going to cut it and would simply be postponing the end of your marriage.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> BTW, Syd. I agree that it can be saved but it won't even be a near miss if OP and his betrayer continue on their current course.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I certainly agree with that, and I should have mentioned it. But the A won't end (in my opinion) until she starts to get serious emotional support from her husband.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Yeswecan said:


> That is all well and good but perhaps getting divorced first was the correct answer. It is not complicated. Certainly less complicated than getting involved with OM.


I agree that many would take that position. But unless I misread the OP (and I may well be doing that) divorce would not solve her need for support and affection. 

In many states the time between filing for divorce and the granting of a divorce can be from eight months to a year or more. During that time what should she do?

Note that I'm not condoning the affair, I'm trying to present what may be a realistic view of the situation. I don't think there will be any decent outcome until both of them realize what they have done --- commission on the wife's part, omission on his.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

knight185 said:


> .
> I was just surprised at how upset she got about the questions. I think it is too much shame and embarrassment. She feels if I knew all of the details then I couldn't move on. Maybe so but if I ask I deserve to know. If things don't improve in counseling then I know where this is headed.


This is a difficult spot. I think that you have to reassure her that as bad as your reaction may be to the answers to her questions, LACK of answers will cause a worse reaction.

She may be right, answering your questions MAY lead to divorce. Not answering your questions CERTAINLY WILL lead to divorce.

Not knowing is a cancer. We see case after case here where one partner thought that they could survive having no answers to their questions. I don't think that a single marriage did survive it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A discrete affair. As in so discrete her husband could work out she was cheating on him.

So not all that discrete, then?

How does she justify cheating her child out of a stable, loving family?


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

I say bullspit. If she has such a prophetic gift why couldn't she foresee the harm she caused everyone involved through her faithlessness?

You're setting yourself up for sure failure with the approach you're taking with your attempt to reconcile.

Good luck, you're surely glinting to need it,

Seasalt


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

Discrete enough to keep it well hidden for as long as she did.

We have a counseling session today with a pastor who we spoke to before. He had a similar experience with an unfaithful wife. He basically said we have both wronged each other and we both have to make amends. He said this only works if we both want it to work out. At this point I want to try to work out and I realize this could be my last chance. For her, she is too confused. You guys aren't here to see it but I can see the devastation she is going through. She realizes she wasn't strong enough to avoid the temptation of an affair and realizes the deception has caused me pain. But at the same time she may not have the energy left from years of pain from my emotional detachment to work on healing the marriage. At this point I have to work on myself to get rid of my emotional detachment issues because this will repeat in other relationships if this one doesn't work out. I can't force her to do anything. Right now she is torn between waiting more years for me to improve vs leaving and going elsewhere. Not a simple black and white decision for her. I know some people don't gave any guilt about their actions. But trust me, the guilt is tearing her apart right now.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

knight185 said:


> Discrete enough to keep it well hidden for as long as she did.
> 
> We have a counseling session today with a pastor who we spoke to before. He had a similar experience with an unfaithful wife. He basically said we have both wronged each other and we both have to make amends. He said this only works if we both want it to work out. At this point I want to try to work out and I realize this could be my last chance. For her, she is too confused. You guys aren't here to see it but I can see the devastation she is going through. She realizes she wasn't strong enough to avoid the temptation of an affair and realizes the deception has caused me pain. But at the same time she may not have the energy left from years of pain from my emotional detachment to work on healing the marriage. At this point I have to work on myself to get rid of my emotional detachment issues because this will repeat in other relationships if this one doesn't work out. I can't force her to do anything. Right now she is torn between waiting more years for me to improve vs leaving and going elsewhere. Not a simple black and white decision for her. I know some people don't gave any guilt about their actions. But trust me, the guilt is tearing her apart right now.


You are not to blame for her affair.

Really. You are not.

Accept the blame for what you did, she needs to accept her blame.

Good look with the counselling.

By the way... is your pastor a qualified, licensed counsellor? If not, seek one out.* A good one who doesn't try to blameshift onto the betrayed spouse*.


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> By the way... is your pastor a qualified, licensed counsellor? If not, seek one out.* A good one who doesn't try to blameshift onto the betrayed spouse*.



The pastor is not a licensed counselor but I do have a request for an appt with a licensed/certified counselor this week. A pastor's input is good but I also know that licensed counselors and therapists have been trained with various tool sets that could be effective. Also, i hear that this particular counselor is a woman. Maybe that could be helpful for my wife. The pastor had helped us before and has knowledge of our situation, so he was good first place to start and he fully supports going to a licensed counselor. I think a few different sources are required.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

knight185,

Any self improvement must be done for YOU, not for her nor the marriage and not because of her affair. That is why it is called "self improvement". If you try to do it for any other reason than to make you a better man, then the changes will not be permanent. She will correctly conclude that they are fake. No, the changes to a better man have to transcend her and the marriage. So let your actions prove to her that you are serious and if she doesn't want to accept them, that you will be fine with that as well.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Knight....where was her guilt when she was having the affair....I suspect the true feelings she has is of being caught and of still having feeling for the other man...don't be surprise is she sneaks away to see him.....Reiner until you caught her was still seeing him....she is going through withdrawal.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Any word on whether or not OM is married? If so, his wife deserves to know that she's been sharing her husband w/ another woman for over a year.


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Any word on whether or not OM is married? If so, his wife deserves to know that she's been sharing her husband w/ another woman for over a year.


I didn't even ask if he was married. Our conversation earlier went on a different tangent earlier and I didn't ask that question. Something tells me he isn't married but i know he has kids. Most guys in his circle have kids but no wives. Right now exposing him to his family is not my concern. That does nothing for me at the moment.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> Discrete enough to keep it well hidden for as long as she did.
> 
> We have a counseling session today with a pastor who we spoke to before. He had a similar experience with an unfaithful wife. He basically said we have both wronged each other and we both have to make amends. He said this only works if we both want it to work out. At this point I want to try to work out and I realize this could be my last chance. For her, she is too confused. *You guys aren't here to see it but I can see the devastation she is going through.* She realizes she wasn't strong enough to avoid the temptation of an affair and realizes the deception has caused me pain. But at the same time she may not have the energy left from years of pain from my emotional detachment to work on healing the marriage. At this point I have to work on myself to get rid of my emotional detachment issues because this will repeat in other relationships if this one doesn't work out. I can't force her to do anything. Right now she is torn between waiting more years for me to improve vs leaving and going elsewhere. Not a simple black and white decision for her. I know some people don't gave any guilt about their actions. But trust me, the guilt is tearing her apart right now.


You don't realize it yet, but that's _why_ our advice is so invaluable. We might not be in the trenches w/ you, but that's a good thing; flying 50K overhead means that we're not letting the blood, mud, smoke, and ash unduly influence our perspective... which means that we're able to call shots all the more accurately. And besides... many of us here (I'd even go so far as to say most) have already been through this slog to some degree or another w/ our own spouses.

That said, based on what I've read of your pastor's advice _thus far_, I'd say that he's right in that you BOTH have issues that you need to resolve. BOTH of you. IOW, NOT just you.

Anyway, the advice that we give isn't some random confluence of words and thoughts w/ nothing to back it up -- it's taken from experience. Years and years and years and years of collective experience.

And you'd be wise to heed at least some of it.

Additional thoughts...

What's this business about you not having an affair only because the opportunity didn't present itself...?!?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> I didn't even ask if he was married. Our conversation earlier went on a different tangent earlier and I didn't ask that question. Something tells me he isn't married but i know he has kids. Most guys in his circle have kids but no wives. Right now exposing him to his family is not my concern. That does nothing for me at the moment.


It will work to ensure that (a) the affair ends and (b) stays ended.

Do you even have his name yet?


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

Xenote said:


> Knight....where was her guilt when she was having the affair....I suspect the true feelings she has is of being caught and of still having feeling for the other man...don't be surprise is she sneaks away to see him.....Reiner until you caught her was still seeing him....she is going through withdrawal.


Feeling guilty doesn't keep someone from doing wrong. In her mind, I had already left her emotionally. She admits she was wrong but in the same breath almost feels justified because she felt she had waited long enough for me to fix my ways. In her mind we didn't have a marriage in anymore. So her mind is all confused up. 

Right now the marriage is on life support and odds are stacked against it. I have to focus on myself for now. I can't make her happy anymore. All I can do is change me ways and she can decide for herself what she wants.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> Feeling guilty doesn't keep someone from doing wrong. In her mind, I had already left her emotionally. *She admits she was wrong but in the same breath almost feels justified because she felt she had waited long enough for me to fix my ways. In her mind we didn't have a marriage in anymore. So her mind is all confused up.*
> 
> Right now the marriage is on life support and odds are stacked against it. I have to focus on myself for now. I can't make her happy anymore. All I can do is change me ways and she can decide for herself what she wants.


You need to call her on this. If she _truly_ felt that her behavior was justified, she wouldn't have hidden it.


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> It will work to ensure that (a) the affair ends and (b) stays ended.
> 
> Do you even have his name yet?


I do know his name.

I know enough to be able to get in contact with him and expose him if needed. I always keep to myself. I'm a homebody and she likes to be out. That made is easy for her to keeps clue hidden for a while. But what I failed to mention in my first post is that a relative of mine had a friend who saw my wife with the other guy and thought something was strange. I confronted my wife about this on the day of the call. She gave me a story that I didn't believe but swore nothing bad was going on. So I started snooping around and found an older paper trail stashed away in her stuff in the bedroom. She got careless. So trust me when I say she is embarrassed. But for me to expose the situation any further right now would to other people outside of a small circle would jeopardize any hope of reconciliation. I could easily share it with the world on Facebook but I won't do that. I couldn't find this guy on Facebook though. I lie in a small city where news can travel fast, so I could do a lot of damage if needed. If I was more of a social guy with more friends I would have found out about this long ago.


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> You need to call her on this. If she _truly_ felt that her behavior was justified, she wouldn't have hidden it.


She admitted that her logic is screwed up. She never used the word justified. It's just a reaction to being found out in a bad way. 

I think splitting up and divorce would bring even more shame on her, especially disappointment from her family. She was raised by her aunt and grandma and they were so excited when got engaged. I think it would really hurt her grandma. Her grandma had 10 kids and stayed in an abusive marriage for a very long time until she had the means to divorce her husband. But as far as I know she remained faithful in spite of the hardships. 

Right now she is feeling every emotion you can think of. I have ups and downs but she has been in permanent down mode since this all started on Saturday. So the pain she has now is her judgement and punishment.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> I do know his name.
> 
> I know enough to be able to get in contact with him and expose him if needed. I always keep to myself. I'm a homebody and she likes to be out. That made is easy for her to keeps clue hidden for a while. But what I failed to mention in my first post is that a relative of mine had a friend who saw my wife with the other guy and thought something was strange. I confronted my wife about this on the day of the call. She gave me a story that I didn't believe but swore nothing bad was going on. So I started snooping around and found an older paper trail stashed away in her stuff in the bedroom. She got careless. So trust me when I say she is embarrassed. But for me to expose the situation any further right now would to other people outside of a small circle would jeopardize any hope of reconciliation. I could easily share it with the world on Facebook but I won't do that. I couldn't find this guy on Facebook though. I lie in a small city where news can travel fast, so I could do a lot of damage if needed. If I was more of a social guy with more friends I would have found out about this long ago.


I'm not talking about a Facebook exposure. I'm talking about finding out whether or not the guy is married and, if so, exposing the affair to his wife.

Does your wife work w/ this guy? If not, how did they meet? Were they friends/acquaintances prior to deciding to engage in an affair?

Anyway, if you know the guy's name and where he lives (as in county), you can try finding his address on the county tax assessor's website. If he's married, the odds are that his wife's name will be listed along w/ his in the county tax records. Then you'll have his name, her name, and their address. (This of course assumes that he owns a house.)


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> I'm not talking about a Facebook exposure. I'm talking about finding out whether or not the guy is married and, if so, exposing the affair to his wife.
> 
> Does your wife work w/ this guy? If not, how did they meet? Were they friends/acquaintances prior to deciding to engage in an affair?
> 
> Anyway, if you know the guy's name and where he lives (as in county), you can try finding his address on the county tax assessor's website. If he's married, the odds are that his wife's name will be listed along w/ his in the county tax records. Then you'll have his name, her name, and their address. (This of course assumes that he owns a house.)


She met him at a gym she used to go to. From what I have been told, he is friends with other friends of hers but she says they kept this between them. This is a small city so everyone seems to know everyone but I'm one of the few that never socializes with anyone. What I find surprising is that they actually went out in public together. From what I know of growing up in this city and how quickly news can spread, I would never consider having an affair anywhere close to here or with anyone in this town. 

What I also find ridiculous is how she got mad about my aunt calling me when she heard someone saw her with another guy. She said the appropriate thing would have been to call her. Yeah right....so she could lie to more people. 

Trusting my wife again will be extremely hard. It will take a long time. I'm willing to give it a shot but neither of us have strong expectations at this point. I'm just curious now to see how an experienced counselor will evaluate the situation.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i dont understand how you could possibly learn to trust her without some kind of consequence...

ie, if she cheats, you file for divorce and expose the affair. 

i mean, when she gets to play you for a fool, betray you, even in public, and then choose the conditions for your "reconciliation"...

then what on earth could you ever possibly hope to latch onto in order to rationalize to yourself that she could be trusted? wouldnt you always be wondering? watching over your shoulder? waiting for the next time she decides you havent been there enough?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

knight185 said:


> Feeling guilty doesn't keep someone from doing wrong. In her mind, I had already left her emotionally. She admits she was wrong but in the same breath almost feels justified because she felt she had waited long enough for me to fix my ways. In her mind we didn't have a marriage in anymore. So her mind is all confused up.
> 
> Right now the marriage is on life support and odds are stacked against it. I have to focus on myself for now. I can't make her happy anymore. All I can do is change me ways and she can decide for herself what she wants.


You are making the same excuses nearly every BS does including myself. The first and seemingly hardest part is to see this situation for what it is and not her blameshifting or your interpretation of her guilt and such. 

You want her to feel guilty for hurting you yet right now she is more than likely feeling guilt for getting caught. She didn't chose to end this affair, she got busted. She hasn't detached her feelings for the OM yet and this does take time unfortunately. She is emotional detached from you right now and buying time. 

She made a great many assumptions to talk herself into this mess. She assumed you had detached, she assumed this or that to talk herself into this. She didn't talk to you, the only person she should have addressed this with. This always leads to the chicken/egg argument. Was the marriage really that horrible or did it become horrible in her head to justify the affair. Either way the affair is completely on her. She needs to own that all on her own so quit making excuses for her. 

You don't need to broadcast her affair to the world but the more this becomes the deep dark secret the greater change this will happen again. Exposing the OM isn't about you, its about getting him out of your life. He isn't your ultimate problem your wife is but the more this stays quiet the greater chance they will just get sneakier. As you said she got sloppy. She won't get sloppy again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"For anyone who has been through this, is it best to avoid discussing the details of the affair or just let a counselor handle the approach?"

No...its not.

Frankly, your WW's attitude sucks.

Stop accepting her blameshifting.

For a woman who you say is very religious, she sure isn't acting like it very much for the recent past.

Having an A.

Lying to you multiple times when confronted about it.

Being unrepentent and blaming you for HER choices.

Refusing to allow you the info you need to heal from her betrayal.

In all honesty, if she does not change her behavior ASAP, I don't see this as an M even worth trying to save.

Do the 180 on her....expose her A to both your families and all friends.

File for D (you can always stop it if she gets her head out of her a**) and only speak to her about the D and kids...and do not consider changing this path until she starts doing what is necessary to fix the M.

Also...if you want ANY chance of saving the M you have to make sure the A is done and this POSOM is totally out of your lives.

Find out if he has a girlfriend or BW and expose the A to her...give this POS something else to worry about than having an A with your WW.


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## leon1 (Sep 3, 2014)

Ok you say shes a minister , i dont know much but would they not supposed to be people with high morals .Doesnt sound like it fits her anymore


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

People seldom change their behavior unless there are some underlying issues such as depression or post partum depression, so her asertion that your "emotional detachment" may have been a projection of hers.

Think about it and realize that if there was any "emotional detachment" it was probably from her side, since in order for her to give herself permission to have an affair, she had to emotionally disconnect from you first. So if she continues to bring your emotional detachment to justify her betrayal, turn it back on her that she is guilty of "the pot calling the kettle black". After all, most cheating wives are not known for being loving and sexual to their husbands and their AP as well during their affairs.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Unfortunately, if you really had a communication problem with her you certainly are having a communication problem here.

You are not comprehending what thousands of threads of cheating spouses have taught the folks here.

Number one, and this is the big one, the odds the affair is over is slim and none. Why? Because its almost always the case and your wife's actions indicate that. All her actions point to regret for getting caught and anger at you for catching her.

Number two, you cant believe anything a person that cheats tells you. They have gone so far down the deception path that lying is first nature to them. There is a reason she doesn't want to tell you anything and it isn't about your feelings. 

Three, you say you had a great sex life before the affair, how is it now. If she were on board she would be continually jumping your bones. The total turn around in your sex life after your child was born is not good. How do you know the affair didn't start then?

Four, almost every cheating wife here says the husband wasn't there for her emotionally. There is a cheaters script and your wife is following it to the letter. Since she cut you off after your child was born, there is no chance you could have been there for her. She had already rejected you.

Your marriage problems are more likely due to her family of origin issues. She needs individual counseling and she needs to quit blaming on her missing parents, she's an adult now.

She likes to go out and you don't. Either get the MMSLP book below, learn how to be a husband or divorce and be a hermit.

Right now you are doing very little that will save your marriage. 

Start studying the threads here and in the reconciliation section. The most important things you can do is get the MMSLP book below(its not a sex manual as the name may imply). Also look up the free online version of NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY and see if it applies to you. Many here find it does.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

While I doubt the affair is over, assuming it is here is a post that can help you. Print this off and DISCUSS it with your wife. DO NOT JUST GIVE IT TO HER TO READ!

_*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.
*_


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

knight185 said:


> Feeling guilty doesn't keep someone from doing wrong. In her mind, I had already left her emotionally. She admits she was wrong but in the same breath almost feels justified because she felt she had waited long enough for me to fix my ways. In her mind we didn't have a marriage in anymore. So her mind is all confused up.


Ahh the cheater logic to algebraic logic - you did "wrong" in my mind so I now can do wrong to make things right. Kind of like a doctor shooting a patient to stop the cancer from growing

Also, her mind isn't confused.
Don't make excuses for her.
She's not 6 years old.
She is completely aware of acts and consequences



knight185 said:


> I can't make her happy anymore. All I can do is change me ways and she can decide for herself what she wants.


You can only make you happy. You are not responsible for her happiness.

She is the only one that can decide to be happy.

No, this is not down to her deciding what she wants.
She made that decision.

You change you for you.
You get better for you.
You move on to heal you.
This is no longer about her - it's now about you and you need to get better.


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

chaos said:


> People seldom change their behavior unless there are some underlying issues such as depression or post partum depression, so her asertion that your "emotional detachment" may have been a projection of hers.
> 
> Think about it and realize that if there was any "emotional detachment" it was probably from her side, since in order for her to give herself permission to have an affair, she had to emotionally disconnect from you first. So if she continues to bring your emotional detachment to justify her betrayal, turn it back on her that she is guilty of "the pot calling the kettle black". After all, most cheating wives are not known for being loving and sexual to their husbands and their AP as well during their affairs.


Our sex life has not been adequate for me since the 2008 birth of our son. My wife's body chemistry/hormones changed. Prior to this it was easy for her to get aroused. After it took a lot of work on my part to get her aroused and at some point I stopped trying. This went on for years. I also generally have a bad attitude about a lot of things and she was the victim of most of that anger. Basically I can be very sarcastic and not understanding of problems. Prior to the affair we did go to counseling but we stopped. She wanted me to go back but I never did. I was pretty fed up with years of arguing so I just focused on my job and my son. My job took up all of my time last year. I worked over 900 hours of overtime. This was involuntary due to the nature of my job and low staffing levels. While I was wrapped up in my job she was enjoying time with her friends, working her own job, and starting a business on the side. I am 100% responsible for pulling away from her in many ways. We have had countless arguments about these issues and I improved some but always fell backwards. Instead of saying she had enough and leaving the marriage, she found another guy. Why didn't she leave? She said she still held out hope that I would change. I believe she stayed because we have a son and I pay all of the bills for the house. She probably couldn't afford to live on her own and maintain her standard of living. Her job doesn't pay much income. I don't know if the other guy ever gave her money or not. 

I admit I'm responsible for pulling away. And she is responsible for doing what she did. 

I understand that trust is broken and very hard to get back. But not every marriage fails because of this. It is possible to work things out. What I don't know are the success rates. Probably small. 

And as it stands right now I do believe even if things had gotten better with this discovery she would have continued it. Even happy couples cheat. Right now her emotions are all mixed up. Will be interesting to see how she feels when everything calms down. She wants a husband to care for her. This other guy was ok for being a side piece but not husband material.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

knight185 said:


> Our sex life has not been adequate for me since the 2008 birth of our son. My wife's body chemistry/hormones changed. Prior to this it was easy for her to get aroused. After it took a lot of work on my part to get her aroused and at some point I stopped trying. This went on for years. I also generally have a bad attitude about a lot of things and she was the victim of most of that anger. Basically I can be very sarcastic and not understanding of problems. Prior to the affair we did go to counseling but we stopped. She wanted me to go back but I never did. I was pretty fed up with years of arguing so I just focused on my job and my son. My job took up all of my time last year. I worked over 900 hours of overtime. This was involuntary due to the nature of my job and low staffing levels. While I was wrapped up in my job she was enjoying time with her friends, working her own job, and starting a business on the side. I am 100% responsible for pulling away from her in many ways. We have had countless arguments about these issues and I improved some but always fell backwards. Instead of saying she had enough and leaving the marriage, she found another guy. Why didn't she leave? She said she still held out hope that I would change. *But in the meantime explore her options as you paid for everything. Calculating. * I believe she stayed because we have a son and I pay all of the bills for the house.*Bingo! Cake eating as it were.* She probably couldn't afford to live on her own and maintain her standard of living. *And more cake eating.* Her job doesn't pay much income. I don't know if the other guy ever gave her money or not.
> 
> I admit I'm responsible for pulling away. And she is responsible for doing what she did.
> 
> ...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Look, yours is a good scenario. Your wife cheated to fill a hole that was lacking in her marriage. Some wives cheat even when a husband does a great job. This is good news because there is something you can work on. Some guys have nothing to work on. You can stay in the drivers seat. You need to learn how to emotionally connect with a woman / wife for your future. You can learn on this one while continuing to decide whether you want to stay with her or not. The only caveat is talk to a a laywer first becuase if infidelity matters in your state you don't want to reconcile after her infideltiy because that will negate it.

Yes, there is a huge amount of work that needs to be done on her part, but she will not magically decide to work on her marriage to you until you make her feel confident that you are planning to make your side better.

To net, you can decide to work on your marriage outwardly while deciding to divorce inwardly. This give you options. 

Another piece of advice is that your wife proably did not end her affair cold turkey and you need access to her phone to check her sincerity.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> Our sex life has not been adequate for me since the 2008 birth of our son. My wife's body chemistry/hormones changed. Prior to this it was easy for her to get aroused. After it took a lot of work on my part to get her aroused and at some point I stopped trying. This went on for years.


Wondering if she had the same issues w/ OM...? Oh wait, of course not.



knight185 said:


> I also generally have a bad attitude about a lot of things and she was the victim of most of that anger. Basically I can be very sarcastic and not understanding of problems. Prior to the affair we did go to counseling but we stopped. She wanted me to go back but I never did. I was pretty fed up with years of arguing so I just focused on my job and my son. My job took up all of my time last year. I worked over 900 hours of overtime. This was involuntary due to the nature of my job and low staffing levels. While I was wrapped up in my job she was enjoying time with her friends, working her own job, and starting a business on the side. I am 100% responsible for pulling away from her in many ways. We have had countless arguments about these issues and I improved some but always fell backwards. Instead of saying she had enough and leaving the marriage, she found another guy. Why didn't she leave? She said she still held out hope that I would change. *I believe she stayed because we have a son and I pay all of the bills for the house. She probably couldn't afford to live on her own and maintain her standard of living. Her job doesn't pay much income.* I don't know if the other guy ever gave her money or not.
> 
> I admit I'm responsible for pulling away. And she is responsible for doing what she did.
> 
> ...


And there you have it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Look, yours is a good scenario. Your wife cheated to fill a hole that was lacking in her marriage. Some wives cheat even when a husband does a great job. This is good news because there is something you can work on. Some guys have nothing to work on. You can stay in the drivers seat. You need to learn how to emotionally connect with a woman / wife for your future. You can learn on this one while continuing to decide whether you want to stay with her or not. *The only caveat is talk to a a laywer first becuase if infidelity matters in your state you don't want to reconcile after her infideltiy because that will negate it.*
> 
> Yes, there is a huge amount of work that needs to be done on her part, but she will not magically decide to work on her marriage to you until you make her feel confident that you are planning to make your side better.
> 
> ...


Good advice here, especially the parts in bold.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Another piece of advice is that your wife proably did not end her affair cold turkey and you need access to her phone to check her sincerity.


:iagree:

And to further that thought...your W will see your changes and will wonder if they will stick. In as such, this thought that you will possibly fall back to your old ways is an easy out to continue activity outside the marriage. 

I really think your W has justified the entire affair and blamed you for it. You appear to have encouraged that notion. I still do not think you are remotely close to being in the driver seat(IMO).


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

knight185 said:


> Feeling guilty doesn't keep someone from doing wrong. In her mind, I had already left her emotionally. She admits she was wrong but in the same breath almost feels justified because she felt she had waited long enough for me to fix my ways. In her mind we didn't have a marriage in anymore. So her mind is all confused up.
> 
> Right now the marriage is on life support and odds are stacked against it. I have to focus on myself for now. I can't make her happy anymore. All I can do is change me ways and she can decide for herself what she wants.


You need to think about what reconciliation should look like.

And, as one who reconciled, it isn't a good idea to let her think it's her decision. You say you have a Chriatian marriage and she is very spiritual, yet by her actions she has given God the finger as well as you. Trust me, her refusal to come clean is going to leave a pool of unresolved issues for the rest of your lives. She is avoiding all accountability, and that is going to come home to roost again and again.

My advice is to either fix things properly or walk away. It's where you will end up anyway. Might as well face it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Nice. You finance her getting laid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

Hicks said:


> Look, yours is a good scenario. Your wife cheated to fill a hole that was lacking in her marriage. Some wives cheat even when a husband does a great job. This is good news because there is something you can work on. Some guys have nothing to work on. You can stay in the drivers seat. You need to learn how to emotionally connect with a woman / wife for your future. You can learn on this one while continuing to decide whether you want to stay with her or not. The only caveat is talk to a a laywer first becuase if infidelity matters in your state you don't want to reconcile after her infideltiy because that will negate it.
> 
> Yes, there is a huge amount of work that needs to be done on her part, but she will not magically decide to work on her marriage to you until you make her feel confident that you are planning to make your side better.
> 
> ...


I did see that in the law that reconciliation negates infidelity. But what does the law consider reconciliation to look like? If I say I'm wiling to work it out through counseling does that count? At this point I know I'm not in the driver seat. I'm going to counseling regardless of what she does.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How did things go with counseling?

Everything she tells you has to be verified independently?

Have you even looked at the phone bill this week?

Have you put a var in her car to see if she is talking to him?

Is she still going out without you?


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> How did things go with counseling?
> 
> Everything she tells you has to be verified independently?
> 
> ...


Still waiting to hear back from the licensed counselor. Our pastor only told us we both need to be committed or part ways now and avoid the hassle. I want to see what happens in counseling first before I make other big decisions. When we talk one on one things get too heated. I have a course of action that I feels needs taken. It involves more exposure than what has been done so far. Things are so bad right now I don't see any harm in waiting another day or two for the appt. 

I am willing to give her a second chance at this but it will require undeniable proof of her intentions. And right now she is unsure of what she wants. 

And this has all happened since the weekend. She still has a job to go. I was working at my dads house while she ran errands last night (such as getting the std test). She told me where she was going but it wasn't like I followed her around.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

knight185 said:


> Still waiting to hear back from the licensed counselor. Our pastor only told us we both need to be committed or part ways now and avoid the hassle. I want to see what happens in counseling first before I make other big decisions. When we talk one on one things get too heated. I have a course of action that I feels needs taken. It involves more exposure than what has been done so far. Things are so bad right now I don't see any harm in waiting another day or two for the appt.
> 
> I am willing to give her a second chance at this but it will require undeniable proof of her intentions. *And right now she is unsure of what she wants. *
> 
> And this has all happened since the weekend. She still has a job to go. I was working at my dads house while she ran errands last night (such as getting the std test). She told me where she was going but it wasn't like I followed her around.


Your W is fence sitting and still in affair fog/withdraw of the additional attention. Not until you know with certainty there is NC at all will any of the MC be of any use. Pretty much pissing in the wind.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Rule of thumb: if you are unsure she is committed to NC 100% then there is still frequent contact going on


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

knight185,

If we were to accept her justification for having an affair, then you could have been justified to have had one yourself because you were living in a sexless marriage for years. She only had crazy sex with you so she could have a child and once that happened, she no longer cared about it. Many husbands faced with this same scenario have deep seated resentment and use it to justify having affairs. She knew you weren't this kind of man so she felt safe to build a double life which came to include another man and like you rightly point out, would have continued if not for her being found out.

I am sorry but you had a bad marriage before her affair started which doesn't leave much to rebuild on. The odds of it surviving and becoming a happy and healthy one, are slim to none, even if your self improvement efforts make you better husband materiel.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

knight185 said:


> I did see that in the law that reconciliation negates infidelity. But what does the law consider reconciliation to look like? If I say I'm wiling to work it out through counseling does that count? At this point I know I'm not in the driver seat. I'm going to counseling regardless of what she does.


That's why you need to talk to a lawyer for your state.
I think sex after finding out about the infidelity is one thing that is considered in some places.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

knight185 said:


> Still waiting to hear back from the licensed counselor. Our pastor only told us we both need to be committed or part ways now and avoid the hassle.


Kudos to your pastor. I think he sees that there is a strong likelyhood you or your WW will not fully commit to healing this M and a full R. Most of the pastors I know want couples with infidelity issues to exhaust all means before recommending divorce. He has seen something that tells him a full R is very slim at best. Whatever it is I think he has given you a straight up honest assessment and you need to keep that in mind regardless what a MC will say.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

I always heard that BS can be in FOG too. I never understand it until i saw your reaction ... Man wake up


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

loyallad said:


> knight185 said:
> 
> 
> > Still waiting to hear back from the licensed counselor. Our pastor only told us we both need to be committed or part ways now and avoid the hassle.
> ...


The pastor's first wife cheated on him and was not willing to do any repairs. She acted as if nothing was wrong. So he divorced her. He went on to get married again and have more kids. He wasn't a pastor at the time of the divorce. The cheating wife is remarried too and is a pastors wife and first lady of a church. She admitted that she should have worked it out. Although both are happy now there was a lot of pain afterwards.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> *The pastor's first wife cheated on him and was not willing to do any repairs. She acted as if nothing was wrong. So he divorced her. He went on to get married again and have more kids.* He wasn't a pastor at the time of the divorce. The cheating wife is remarried too and is a pastors wife and first lady of a church. She admitted that she should have worked it out. Although both are happy now there was a lot of pain afterwards.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

knight185 said:


> The pastor's first wife cheated on him and was not willing to do any repairs. She acted as if nothing was wrong. So he divorced her. He went on to get married again and have more kids. He wasn't a pastor at the time of the divorce. The cheating wife is remarried too and is a pastors wife and first lady of a church. She admitted that she should have worked it out. Although both are happy now there was a lot of pain afterwards.


And this pastor who had did not know how to repair his own marriage destroyed by infidelity is doing what for you exactly? Although it is nice to have a pastor involved a qualified counselor might be a better option.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> And this pastor who had did not know how to repair his own marriage destroyed by infidelity is doing what for you exactly? Although it is nice to have a pastor involved a qualified counselor might be a better option.


Hold up there a sec. His wife cheated and then she refused to put in any of the work necessary to repair the marriage. IOW, she wanted to rugsweep. That was unacceptable to him, so he divorced her. What could he have done differently? 

Always remember this... you can lead a WS to water, but you can't make it _think_.


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

Yeswecan said:


> knight185 said:
> 
> 
> > The pastor's first wife cheated on him and was not willing to do any repairs. She acted as if nothing was wrong. So he divorced her. He went on to get married again and have more kids. He wasn't a pastor at the time of the divorce. The cheating wife is remarried too and is a pastors wife and first lady of a church. She admitted that she should have worked it out. Although both are happy now there was a lot of pain afterwards.
> ...


It takes both spouses to repair the marriage. His wife didn't want to do any kind of counseling or therapy and he was not willing to live with that. Some women want to be married and have extra men on the side. He wasn't going to put up with it. 

The request is in for a licensed counselor. It had huge improvements for my brother's marriage but it only works if both spouses are serious about it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

knight185 said:


> It takes both spouses to repair the marriage. His wife didn't want to do any kind of counseling or therapy and he was not willing to live with that. Some women want to be married and have extra men on the side. He wasn't going to put up with it.
> 
> The request is in for a licensed counselor. It had huge improvements for my brother's marriage but it only works if both spouses are serious about it.


I believe the pastor does not see your W currently wanting to work on it thus his answer.

I'm glad you retained other counseling for more objective answers.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knight185 said:


> It takes both spouses to repair the marriage. His wife didn't want to do any kind of counseling or therapy and he was not willing to live with that. Some women want to be married and have extra men on the side. He wasn't going to put up with it.


Hopefully she's put a stop to the bullsh*t.

Just wondering... is her new husband the AP w/ whom she cheated on her first husband?



knight185 said:


> The request is in for a licensed counselor. It had huge improvements for my brother's marriage but *it only works if both spouses are serious about it.*


Word.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Hold up there a sec. His wife cheated and then she refused to put in any of the work necessary to repair the marriage. IOW, she wanted to rugsweep. That was unacceptable to him, so he divorced her. What could he have done differently?
> 
> Always remember this... you can lead a WS to water, but you can't make it _think_.


Very true Gus. The pastor does not see this working out as OP W is not all in at present.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

It's good that you own your $h!t of the marital mess and that you are trying to become a better man, but in your cheating wife's head she's done with you and is simply sorry for having thrown out her morals out the window by having an affair and not having divorced you earlier in the marriage. I may be wrong, but it seems that shame, more than remorse, is what is driving her emotional state. I think your marriage is done and you need to put a fork in it.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

I think every pastor and religious leader should take a course titled something like - "how to recognize those with character disorders, and how to deal with them."


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

knight185 said:


> It takes both spouses to repair the marriage. His wife didn't want to do any kind of counseling or therapy and he was not willing to live with that. Some women want to be married and have extra men on the side. He wasn't going to put up with it.
> 
> The request is in for a licensed counselor. It had huge improvements for my brother's marriage but it only works if both spouses are serious about it.


Well of course the pastors wife didn't want any counseling. She was forgiven and sanctified by the blood of Jeeeeezus. No need for self examination and repentance towards your betrayed husband...as long as Jeeeeezus forgives you....

Sigh....


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Well of course the pastors wife didn't want any counseling. She was forgiven and sanctified by the blood of Jeeeeezus. No need for self examination and repentance towards your betrayed husband...as long as Jeeeeezus forgives you....
> 
> Sigh....


Yeah like in the original 1967 movie "Bedazzled", Lucifer is whining about all the decades of grooming a man to become as evil as hell, only to loose him at the moment of his execution:



Lucifer said:


> *I lost Mussolini that way, all that work, then right at the end with the rope around his neck, he says, 'Scusi. Mille regretti,' and up he goes!"*


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## knight185 (Jan 9, 2013)

At this point counseling date has been set. We have done a lot of talking today to review all of the issues over the past 8 years. Still a lot of work to do though but at least we are both willing to work out. Thanks to everyone for their input.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to verify the affair is over. At least half the time a wayward wife agrees to counseling here, she is still banging her new man. You can no longer believe any thing she says.

You marriage is dead, she intentionally killed it. If you and her are both in, you can create a new marriage. Accepting anything she tells you at this point in time means you're unwilling to face reality.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> You need to verify the affair is over. At least half the time a wayward wife agrees to counseling here, she is still banging her new man. You can no longer believe any thing she says.
> 
> You marriage is dead, she intentionally killed it. If you and her are both in, you can create a new marriage. Accepting anything she tells you at this point in time means you're unwilling to face reality.


Word.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Knight, I have time to write in a bit more detail. 

My wife had an affair about 25 years ago. I stayed for the kids, we rebuilt. I want to pass on a few things that helped me, in case they help you. They might give you some insights into some of what is going to hit you.

1. At the time of my wife's affair, I saw it as my failing. If I had done better it wouldn't have happened. I had given marriage my best, and it wasn't good enough. I don't know if you relate to that, but I get the impression you are seeing this as you failing. Well, with 25 years of hindsight and figuring it out, I know that the root cause of my wife's affair was her issues, and I could never have headed it off. The marriage wasn't perfect, and we both could have done things better, but if there are problems in a marriage, you work on them, and maybe leave the marriage. You don't cheat. Mrs Wazza had an affair because she chose that over working on the marriage. How is your wife any different? What level of problem made her cheating and lying acceptable?

2. Your wife wants you to accept you won't know the details. She says move on. This guy put it better than I ever could : 
Joseph's Letter 
If your wife thinks you can move on and let it go, she's a fool. You can let it go for a while, maybe. But it will simmer away, and one day it will re-emerge. She has created a great, big, stinking, issue. And she is very unwise to try and pretend she hasn't.

3. You say she is in the driver's seat. That is only true if you let it be. You want to save your marriage....but the truth is, if she wants to end it, she can. You don't get a say. Any more than you got a say in the affair. But what you can do is turn things around. You can accept that what you had is gone (sorry but it is). Because you have the same power as she does. The power to unilaterally walk away if you choose. Right now, she thinks she has lots of choices. What if you take that away? What if you say to her "OK, you don't want me, I am gone. If you change your mind, you need to win me back". Seem counter-intuitive? Maybe, but in my experience it works. I figure, if your wife is going to go, she is going to go. I think its a good idea to confront her with the reality of that. It might be what brings her to her senses. If it doesn't, I figure she was going to go anyway. Why should you be in hell while she thinks she can have whatever she wants, when she's the one who cheated?

4. This is the hardest bit in some ways. Your wife has shown a side you never thought she had. She has been untrustworthy, she has cheated. You are going to find she lied to you to be with him. You have to work through that. And it probably hasn't hit you yet. My wife's affair was before the internet and mobiles, so the common tech ways of cheating weren't there. But for example, she would smuggle nice clothes out of the house, so I wouldn't see she was dressing up for him. She would lie. I found out who he was, and confronted him. They talked about it afterwards, and she kept going. She took his side. I don't know the specifics, but your wife has done the same thing. My wife saw her affair partner after it was supposedly ended. I expect yours might too. You need to process this. It won't go away. You need to deal with it.

I'm going to follow your thread. If you decide to reconcile, I can talk about that. But the first stage is to comprehend the sh1tty reality of what has been done to you. And I am letting you know you are not alone. Others have been through his, and survived, and prospered, and rebuilt.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Go reread post 48.

Now, all her anger is for getting caught and the shame she will face if she can't get you reeled back in. 
Also, now that she see you buckling under to her supposed anger and confusion, this will continue.
She is playing you like a sucker!!!!!!!!

You came here for advice, so pay attention.

There is NOTHING your wife is doing or will do that has not been seen here.
So we are giving you heads up, but you keep making excuses for her.

You say sex almost stopped after son's birth, but she was getting it regular from him.
Also you still not paying attention to whats being said. We telling you you need to go ninja to see if she still in contact.
But you waiting on the magic MC.

She gives you a lil conversation and you think she being open with you. BUT as soon as you touch on the A she go nuke to shut you up.
Dude, that's right out of the cheaters handbook. 

What you need to do is tell her you want a D, and will be filing under A, and you are going to expose her and her fb to all.

Bet she go nuke on you again, but expect that. After a day or 2, bet she crawl back.
You want to know why?? You said it yourself. She's a pastor, image with friends and family, AND, you PAY ALL THE BILLS.

But right now, you are giving her all the control and she see it and is using it. Take it back and make her come to you.
Start with showing her how low you think she is by getting a DNA kit from a drug store.

You need to knock the wind out of her sail man before she will really want to work on this.
You need to show her you will NOT put up with her controlling this.

The wisdom on this site is invaluable, ignore it at your own risk.

What we see is a woman morning her A being found out, and contact very limited. 
What she is seeing is a weak man begging for the marriage.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Want to see wisdom, go read post #206 of CTPlay thread.

Read his words and learn my friend.

The only difference is, your wife wants the marriage because of what a D will cost her. Once you realize that, you will be in the drivers seat.

But think about this,,, after making a fool of you for a year, do you really think she will ever regain respect for you.

How many times did she come from him and kissed your cheek???


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

I gotta agree with OldWolf57 she didn't lose interest in sex because of the child birth . She didn't want to have sex with you because some other guy was F***ing her regularly. And i don't really know how you believed that excuse even after you discover her long term affair .


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

K185, how you holding up??

I see you haven't come back. You may not like the things we said, but we told it like it is.

Tell you what, just to say we are wrong, do a little snooping to see if she is being truthful about NC;
After all, you have been lied to for over a year, so it's completely normal to suspect her to lies about NC.

She got caught K, she didn't end it on her own. So I hope you are not burying your head in the sand.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

`Knight this is an incredible thread, and I have got to say, at the risk of sounding rude, you really are living on a different planet!

So lets clarify what I mean:


First and foremost - your wife is not a wonderful, marvellous, incredible person - she is a deceitful, lying, disrespectful, calculating cheat! She may not want to be seen as this - but the reality of what she did bears this out. No matter how badly you ignored her or treated her, she did not have to cheat.


She is only sorry she got caught. She liked having him around for exciting sex and probably got up to stuff with him she would never do with you. And she likes having you around to play hubby and pay the bills - now you tell me how screwed up is that!


She certainly is not beautiful - in fact she is very ugly where it counts - inside! If you divorce, you then have the opportunity to find someone who truly loves and respects you. You are entitled to that happiness. And whomever she "attracts" will soon see through her and tire of her.


Her church should kick her out - she is an impostor and should be seen as such by people who are placing their religious trust in her.


She still misses the other guy (which is why she is "not sure" about what she wants to do). She may have even taken this underground.


She has no right to tell you to do anything, much less "shut up"! Expose far and wide and let them both feel the consequences.


You seriously need to see things for what they are, man up and stop making excuses for her!

Expose her and then kick her out and file for divorce. You deserve better. 

Take care.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

So has your wife stopped seeing the other man and agreed to no contact with any man at all?

Stop blaming yourself. It is convenient for your wife to blame reasons x, y, & z for her actions. Whats next if the sun was to fall out of the sky thats your fault too.

At the end of the day i bet there were things in the marriage you were not happy with either. Only difference is you didn't run off and have an affair.

As for her low sex drive it would seem it was only low when it came to you.

Unless you offer up consquences for her affair and make her take ownership of what she has done nothing will ever change and there is the real possibillity she will do it again


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

What I don't like is the fact that I think your old lady has a get out of jail free card. In what I mean the next time you catch her screwing a round all she has to tell you is that you are still not performing right.

BTW your neglect looks like you treated her good compared the shyt my old lady went through with me.
I gues I could sit her and tell you that my old lady should have stopped pissing me off and she wouldn't get hit....but I'm not...what I am going to tell you is I have taken responsiabilty for my actions and have no excuse for my behavior and since then...and along with learning the tools to control *my* anger I haven't hit her in over 10 years.

Now here is the thing...my old lady phucked around with 20 guys for 13 years (never longer then few month before the guy wanted more from her and she bailed on the needy POS) and blaming me was not an option. She took responsablity...she owned her wh0ring around 5 years ago. ( this is the kind of shyt you hear when your old lady comes clean and owns her shyt!)

My point is you really don't learn when you can point fingers at some one else when you act like a dumb @ss and screw over the one you love!
Sorry man your old lady has a long way to go in affair proofing her marriage. You on the other hand have taken the first step in facing the neglect......It's just sad that she will use it against you.

For what it's worth ....having been here for a long time I see threads like this with this kind of pain continue only to find out the affair started up again....with the same affair partner.

Not only is the act of adultery addicting in most cases the affair partner is also addicting. I say "in most cases" cuz clearly my old lady was not addicted to any one "band aid"....she when through a lot of "bandaids"

In short you are not out of the wood yet....please listen to these fine folk here and quietly validate your wife commitment in being faithful to you. It took me about a year and a half almost 2 years to finally confirm my old lady was in fact in it for the long haul.


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