# Will he ever open up and commit? Am I wasting my time?



## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Hello – New to the board here. I’ve been following for quite some time and this is just the place that I know I can come to for sound advice. I find great comfort in knowing that. I will try to make this as short, sweet and simple as possible although my situation is a bit complicated. 

I’m 38, have a 19 year old daughter and he is 37 with two small daughters from a previous marriage. We have lived together for going on five years in September. Things happened rather quickly for us. He was separated when we got together and just finalized their divorce last year. Now, I’m wife material. Want nothing more than to settle down. I love and I love unconditionally and selflessly. I’m amazing to him and his children. Am more than a stepmom and live in “pretend” wife. I’m ready for commitment and for marriage and would like to know where our future is headed. It’s been long enough in where he should know, right? Well, it’s been rather difficult with him. Every time I bring up the subject of marriage he won’t discuss it in lots of detail and I have to argue to get ANYTHING out of him. He says different things at different times. That if he could be engaged to me right now he would and that he does have intentions of marrying me, however, he can’t afford to buy a ring. Sometimes he says that marriage is just a piece of paper, why can’t I just be content with how it is? When I tell him that I at least would like some form of commitment, maybe a ring he goes on to say how is that showing commitment? 

Our lease is up in June and I’m wanting to buy or rent in a more “home” type of environment as we live in an apartment now. He wants to move to the city that his daughters live in which is a ½ hour away from where we live now. It’s a bit too far for me from my family, my daughter’s college, my job, etc. so I’m willing to COMPROMISE on somewhere in between. Well, when we picked up his daughters last Friday I wanted to have the “talk” as it’s been weighing on my mind heavily. I asked him if he was open to compromising in moving to somewhere which is middle ground for both of us and he said that he has his mind set on where he wants to move and that’s all to it. That he really doesn’t want to compromise. That HE has a goal. I told him that he’s in a relationship and his goals should be about US and not only him. That if he has single minded goals that maybe he should be single. He asked “why do you want to talk about this now” and I responded with because you NEVER want to discuss our future and every time we pick up the girls and we “play” family thoughts of my future come in and where we’re headed. I do all of this and I have nothing to show for it. So he told me “there is a time and place for everything, why must you force me to talk?” so I let it go. I said can you please promise to talk to me this week? He said yes. Now that was HUGE as he is super proud and stubborn, spoiled and won’t do anything if he feels “forced” to. 

Well, yesterday it weighed heavily on my mind and I was hoping to talk with him. I actually planned my entire day trying to figure out the best way to bring it up. Hoping I’d get more of a positive response. He does extra curriculars and when I say that I mean, drink beers every other day and he smokes marijuana on a daily basis. Yesterday, when I was getting ready to approach him I asked him first if he ate a special brownie that I knew he had and he said yes. I said bummer, I was hoping to talk to you tonight. He said, why do you need to talk now? Do you need to be such a Debbie Downer when you know I’m high? Now is not the time. So I got really upset. I said WHEN is the time?! I’ve been wanting to talk to you for the longest time and it’s NEVER the time. He said that I force him to talk and that I expect him to say what I want to hear when I want to hear it. I said that’s not true. You can NEVER talk about anything that is important to ME. After four years and going on five years I deserve a conversation about where your thoughts are regarding the future. I told him that it can’t be his way or the highway every time. So his response was “yes it is though, with this situation it is”. So I told him that’s your answer? You won’t even discuss with me? I’m so tired of living as a wife, being such a wonderful woman to you and your children and you can’t even respect me enough or love me enough to talk to me about something that is so important to me? Your spiked brownies and beers are your priority? He said that if I would have waited till later in the evening that we could talk. So I said ok, we’ll talk later. He said never mind, that I spent my dime *****ing him out and that I ruined my chance to talk. Now, I didn’t even say or do anything bad! How can I be punished for wanting to have an adult conversation? 

I lost it. Started sobbing uncontrollably. I told him that I didn’t want this anymore. That if he doesn’t see a future for us to let me know so I can move on! He said that I could have waited. That he promised to talk to me this week and it was only Tuesday. I told him that it doesn’t have to be on his terms. I spend my LIFE living on his terms. I told him “can’t you see that I’m hurting that you don’t want to talk to me about anything important to me?” He said why can’t you just let nature take its course? I said because it’s been years already and you NEVER talk.

I know that he is bitter and resentful as his ex wife cheated on him and left him for another man and is now re-married. I know that he gave her the WORLD. Did everything SHE WANTED and he is bitter and resentful for that but why do I, as the GOOD woman have to suffer for what she did to him? I deserve everything that he gave her and I get the crap end of the stick?

I have sacrificed A LOT for this man. I have provided so much to him. The lease is in my name, his car was repo’d six months ago so he uses my car and I play chauffer, etc. I’ve moved in the last four years to every area he’s wanted to live in. His credit is shot due to bankruptcy and her car was in his name and she let that get repo’d as well as his current rep so he’s screwed there. I’ve been patient and tried to help him get his life together and he gets upset every time we have to talk about finances.

He is very strong minded and won’t budge. It’s his way or the highway. Now, with all that I am to him WHY can’t I get a conversation?

Now, I get that he wants to be closer to his daughters and that’s important to him but according to him he only wants to rent where they are in case his ex wife decides to move with them. She is remarried but has never been faithful to any man so I don’t see her staying in one place for long. Now, I don’t want to spend my life bouncing from home to home in order to follow her and his children around. I want to find my forever home and set a foundation for MY daughter and for my future grandchildren. I’m willing to compromise for this man meeting him halfway and he won’t do that for me?

We’re in a relationship and a couple. It’s about meeting halfway and having mutual decisions. IF we were married the conversation and my needs would be very different and I’d be more willing to do what he wants but the truth is he hasn’t even put a ring on it and won’t even discuss it with me without me having to fight it out of him. Why should I sacrifice what I want because it’s his way or the highway?

I’m just so drained and am honestly beyond depressed right now. I love this man so very much. There is so much invested. Our children, his family, my family, etc. Why can’t he meet me halfway and give me what I want? Why the stubbornness and pride? 

His sisters even tell me that he’s very spoiled and narcissistic. 

It hurts that he is so unwilling to open up to me (which I get that he may be stubborn because he was hurt and a wall is up) but he’s going to lose the greatest thing that has happened to him because of his “my way or the highway” mentality. 

I feel so used. Like he’s just with me because I’m a convenience. He has a live in maid, cook, babysitter and a good role model for his children. I’m an attractive woman with a good job, a good head on her shoulders, want to settle down and have a good life. I feel so taken for granted.

I just want to know if I’m wrong? Am I being too impatient? Should I let “nature take its course”? Will he ever budge? Am I wasting my time? Should I move on? Should I not require marriage from him?

The thought of moving on really breaks my heart because I am 150% madly in love with him and in it for the long run.

I just feel like I’m going crazy and don’t even know what is right or wrong anymore.

I’m sorry for the lengthiness but I’m providing as many details as possible. I look forward to hearing from some of you and I thank you in advance.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You're wasting your time. Time to cut him loose unless you're okay living continuing to sacrifice everything for him and getting nothing in return. And yes I do think he's using you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm sorry, but a 37 year old man who still smokes weed every day is never going to be grown up enough to have the kind of relationship you are hoping for. To me thats just juvenile, there comes a time when you need to grow up. His actions have made it clear that that you are not his priority, your relationship is not his priority, and he is going to do what he wants. Look how long it took to get his divorce finalized! You've been together almost five years, that that JUST got done a year ago?? It sounds like you get nothing from this relationship, you are NOT being impatient, and if marriage is what you want, I think you would do better to seek a commitment elsewhere and be glad the two of you HAVEN'T tied the knot!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You've found out he's spoiled and self-centered. People in his life tell you he's spoiled and self-centered. He's showing you very clearly who he is. And he's tling you being married wont change anything. So why do you keep fighting to change him, and expecting things will magically get better once you get married. NEWSFLASH: If you do end up getting married, the odds are good that he'll change, but my bet is that it won't be for the better. 

It's time to move on. Leave the drug addict and alcoholic. Let him start taking care of himself. Talk to a counsor about your codependent behaviors. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I spend my LIFE living on his terms


This is where I stopped reading.

I think you know this isn't going to work. He doesn't want to marry you and you know it but are afraid to get on with it because of your investment. 

Get out of this relationship. He's not going to give you what you want. You need to get yourself back and stop living life on HIS terms.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My opinion is from EXPERIENCE ...omg...too much in this department.

If he hasn't done it already, HE WILL NOT DO IT.

And why should he? He has the "family unit" without having to do it anyway.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> The thought of moving on really breaks my heart because I am 150% madly in love with him and* in it for the long run*.


OK I read further and caught this.

If this is really how you feel you need to drop the marriage talk altogether. You can't say you feel that way and then on the other hand have fits because you don't have a ring on it. IN IT FOR THE LONG RUN means with or without the ring, you'll be his ride or die girl.

Be honest with yourself first. Be true to what you want in this life. If you want to be a wife, fine, but you may NEVER be this mans wife. You have to be ok with that if you want to be with THIS man.


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## keepsmiling (Nov 20, 2012)

Will he open up? No, he is up himself. 
Will he commit? Why on earth would you want him to?!

Please take a step back and look at your relationship from the outside in. Do you see a happy woman? Or do you see a wonderful woman who wants to be a great wife, but has somehow found a terrible example of a man to do that with?

I hate to be really frank, but he is taking the pi*s. Don't stand for it!


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks everyone! There has been so much involved. I’m the first woman he took home to his family after a long time. I have such a strong relationship with his sisters and family and so does my daughter.

When I say in it for the long run it means that I’m willing to commit to him 100% for the rest of my life. This is how much I love him but I do want marriage and a commitment. To settle down and do things the right way.

I just don’t get why he was so different to his ex wife. He has so much respect for her even after all that she put him through, etc. and I get this guarded man who doesn’t respect what I need/want when I’m so good to him?

Is it time to give him an ultimatum or do I just leave him?

Do you think this is just who he is? I get nervous that I’ll hear not too long from now that he’s settled down and married to another woman. The thought of that crushes me.

I’m sorry I’m just so down in the dumps right now. Almost didn’t make it in to work today.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You being good to him should be just that. You give because you want to give, not because you expect some type of reward for what you do... which is what you're sounding like you want. A gold star.

Truth? He's a taker, you're a giver. He may have been a giver once, but he got burnt that way. Your fault? NOPE. He's just chosen at this time in his life this is who he will be. You can accept that and take things day by day (not looking a year into the future) or you can stop all of it and say your peace and leave. 

You've been there almost 5 years. Any sane person would see that's plenty of time to get to know a person, invest love and share your life with to know if you want to do it forever. The problem comes when the other person in your equation is not on the same page with you. You're in the same book but he's a few chapters behind you. You are the one with the cards... play the ultimatum and be prepared to walk if he doesn't comply, or stick it out and keep riding this by the seat of your pants. Maybe it will happen and maybe it won't, but that's part of the adventure that's appealing. You don't know how it's going to end up.

And this is from experience: A side note about ultimatums and marriage... if he agrees, it will always bother you that you had to threaten him in order for him to marry you. I promise you it will always haunt you that this man you love so much didn't WANT you the same way. You'll always feel like he chose you out of fear, or some other convenience, not because he couldn't imagine his life without you.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> I spend my LIFE living on his terms.


And that won't change one little bit if you were to get married.

You say you're madly in love with him, but I don't see why. What exactly is it that you are attracted to? The drama? Wanting what you can't have? Your fantasy of how things could be "if only" he were a whole different person than he actually is?

He may be divorced now, but he is not able to be the man you want him to be.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

confused_female said:


> I just don’t get why he was so different to his ex wife. He has so much respect for her even after all that she put him through, etc. and I get this guarded man who doesn’t respect what I need/want when I’m so good to him?


Because maybe he is still in love with his ex. You are his rebound relationship. Do some research on it. If his wife cheated & left him, it probably broke his heart very deeply. Then you, a wonderful woman, came along to help mend his broken heart but I don't think his love for you is as deep as it was for his ex...who he married.

I am so sorry but he is not as "in to you" as you are him.

Why wait what could be years for him to marry you? He is very clearly telling you he is not ready to marry again. You are probably the best thing that has ever happened to him, but he can't see it & may never. It all has to do with timing. You started dating a man who wasn't even divorced & didn't want to get divorced.

Can you see how the above has created the situation you are in now?

Find another man who is free in his heart to love & marry you the way you deserve.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Hello and thank you Emerald - He married her because she got pregnant. According to him, she cheated and left him and she wanted to work it out and he didn't. I do speak with her and she did confirm that she cheated on him and wants nothing to do with him.

Not sure what to believe. 

There was one other girl before me that he dated and left her to be with me so I don't think I'm the first rebound girl. Just the girl he "settled down" with.

If he's not serious why include me as a "family member" to his family, etc.? He spends all of his time with me, etc.

Do you think he's just afraid of getting hurt again so he's emotionally just scared?

I feel like he respects her because she puts her foot down to him. She has control because of the kids, etc. 

She was also very abusive to him. She cheated for the entire time they were together. They separated almost two years before he got with me so they weren't even in a relationship. Just holding on for the kids. She didn't want him though.

Where I'm more of a doormat who sticks by his side because of unconditional love for him but that has gotten me nowhere.

Do you think a 180 or what do I need to do in order to get respect again? For him to look at me seriously?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Do you think a 180 or what do I need to do in order to get respect again? For him to look at me seriously?


His stance isn't necessarily about you or what you are or aren't doing. It's about what he wants to do or don't do. YOU have no control over that. Nobody wants someone else telling them what to do when you think about it.

He could love you and your life together AS IS. THIS is what you need to wrap your brain around.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Thanks everyone! There has been so much involved. I’m the first woman he took home to his family after a long time. I have such a strong relationship with his sisters and family and so does my daughter.
> 
> When I say in it for the long run it means that I’m willing to commit to him 100% for the rest of my life. This is how much I love him but I do want marriage and a commitment. To settle down and do things the right way.
> 
> ...


You say you're in it for the long run. That means you either need to accept that you're getting the best he is ever going to offer you and be satisfied, or stop being in it for the long run. 

He's not willing to commit to you. All of his excuses are just his idea of breaking the news to you in a "soft" way. In other words, "I'm not going to budge and you can like it or lump it, but I will not tell you this because I won't give up the benefits I get until I have no choice." 

As far as your question about giving an ultimatum or leaving... I don't think an ultimatum is going to work for you. Even if he gives in, it will come back to haunt you. "You forced me." 

If you simply say, "It's clear that we aren't looking for the same thing from this relationship, and I'm worth more than what you're willing to offer me, so I'm making my own plans. I'll be moving out on the (DATE)" you'll stand a better chance of him coming around. Either way, though, you would benefit from learning to live your life for you and yours and to eject anyone who gets in the way of that. Stop making excuses for him! Please check out http://jellygator.hubpages.com/hub/Decode-Mixed-Signals


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Yep. I agree with Kathy... excuses are monuments to nothing. He doesn't want to marry you. There's nothing else behind it.

Maybe someday. Maybe not.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

What i took from your post is that you claim to be 'in love' with a man who gives you nothing that you need. This tells me that you have very bad self esteem. 

A 37 yr old man who smokes weed and drinks every day is not someone you should be desperate to marry. Again, this displays low self esteem.

Dump the loser and work on yourself.

Good luck.


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## Zing (Nov 15, 2012)

From your posts, I gather that he is not even doing 1/10th of what he should be to keep you with him...and you're both not even married yet...
why do you think he would do anything at all for you once you both are indeed married...it'd only get worse since you would have officially signed a bond that you'd be his live in maid, cook, babysitter and a good role model for his children forever. 

And as to answer your other question (where I guess you know the answer yourself) - the heart always pines for what it does not have - He pines for his ex and you for him...


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

He is showing you who he is and telling you all you need to know....with what he says and doesnt say, with what he does and doesnt do.You're not listening! You're wearing blinders! He does not value you or the relationship nearly as much as you do, not nearly as you deserve. Is that what you want? He doesnt deserve all the love and care you show him.LReally look at all the aspects of him that make you unhappy. Those things wont magically change or dissapear if he puts a ring on your finger nor do you ever want to pressure someone into marrying you when they clearly dont want to. Accept it and find someone who will give you all the things you have to offer....willingly, happily.


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

He's got no reason to do things your way, you've made it very easy for him to make it his way or the highway because he knows you won't boot him, you've expressed nothing less than unconditional love for the better part of 5 years.

Or at least that's what he thinks.

Tell him it's over and he's the one whose got to leave since it's your apartment.

Expect resistance and lots of false promises to make it right.

If he does take positive real steps to make it right you can always reconsider but plan to follow through if nothing comes of it.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

The harsh truth is...you are oozing desperation, clingyness and neediness. It isnt my intention to insult you or put you down by saying this. We have all been there at some point in our lives.It is impossible to have a happy, healthy relationship with anyone when you feel this way. He cant cant respect or value you if you dont. You need to get yourself together and forget about him. If he comes back around later and you still want him fine. Once you get yourself to a better place you may (likely) find that you dont even want him anymore. It will be one of those...wth was i thinking moments!


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

If you're looking for marriage, yes, you're wasting your time. I had an ex like that..."why can't we just be happy as we are ", he doesn't believe in marriage, etc...I didn't particulary cared about getting married at that time, but it put in my mind the question: "Is he JUST NOT THAT INTO ME ? Does he think I'm not THE ONE? " So, subconsciously, it became a big matter. When a man is reluctant to marry you after a long time together, most likely, he never will. I have seen many people in this place.
So, he seems he wants to enjoy the benefits of a housewife, without taking the legal responsability of having a wife. Smoking marijuana doesn't sound to me like an act of a nice, well-groomed man either. But, if you say you love him that much, you might have to accept being where you are...indefinetely  You can do that, or you can decide to leave and upgrade for a responsible, husband material man.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

I get that I may be coming off as clingy or desperate but in reality I'm just a woman with lots of time invested that wants to know once and for all what he's thinking.

He has said he wants to get married but not to rush or push, then he speaks about getting it toghter financially first. So many mixed signals that I don't know what to think anymore.

Would he have spent all of this time with me if I'm just a rebound girl?

I'm more conufsed now than ever. More depressed now than ever.

I'd like to TRY and talk to him tonight but I'm so scared to.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

confused_female said:


> I'd like to TRY and talk to him tonight but I'm so scared to.


Why would you try to talk to him AGAIN? How many more times have you tried and gotten nowhere? He's told you as gently as he can that he does NOT want to get married. 

And don't give him an ultimatum because do you really want it that way? Don't you deserve a man who can't wait to marry you vs someone you had to threaten to do it?


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

You may love him150% but he isn't that invested in you. He is making very important decisions about where to live without giving you any consideration. He doesn't want to talk to you, but allows you to take care of him. 
I have to agree with everyone else, you are wasting your time on this loser. You need to work on you, why are you short selling yourself? You need to move on before you wake up one day and realize you have wasted another year, 5, 10 or more waiting for him to committ. Set a better example for your daughter.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

He spends his time with you because he is free to do so. He gets his needs met with you, he's got a good thing going.

You accept his kids

You accept he has baggage from a divorce

You accept his drug use

You accept his financial situation

What in the world would make him give that up? The occasional fight about 'why aren't we getting married' isn't going to send him running. He'll keep arguing the point because eventually you calm down and get back to status quo. You're doing most of the work and it's working for him. Nobody is saying he doesn't love you.... but for you that's not enough.

What's to be confused about? Depressed? Why? Either you accept things as they are and go with the flow, or cut him loose because you want more, right now. No confusion there at all.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

confused_female said:


> I'd like to TRY and talk to him tonight but I'm so scared to.


And THIS is one if your core problems. You've taught him how to effectively deal with your "whining/nagging". He blows up, you go away, and he can go on munching dope laced brownies till you work up enough courage to attempt to talk to him again. 

You really need to start by looking at yourself to figure out why you're willing to put up with this. You may not be needy/clingy/weak in other areas of your life, but you are in this relationship. Similar to a guy being all "alpha" outside the house, but being "beta" at home. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

confused_female said:


> I'd like to TRY and talk to him tonight but I'm so scared to.



Hate to say it, but this is what you are going to get if you do:

"So he told me “there is a time and place for everything, why must you force me to talk?” so I let it go. I said can you please promise to talk to me this week? He said yes. Now that was HUGE as he is super proud and stubborn, spoiled and won’t do anything if he feels “forced” to. 
Well, yesterday it weighed heavily on my mind and I was hoping to talk with him. I actually planned my entire day trying to figure out the best way to bring it up. Hoping I’d get more of a positive response. He does extra curriculars and when I say that I mean, drink beers every other day and he smokes marijuana on a daily basis. Yesterday, when I was getting ready to approach him I asked him first if he ate a special brownie that I knew he had and he said yes. I said bummer, I was hoping to talk to you tonight. He said, why do you need to talk now? Do you need to be such a Debbie Downer when you know I’m high? Now is not the time. So I got really upset. I said WHEN is the time?! I’ve been wanting to talk to you for the longest time and it’s NEVER the time. He said that I force him to talk and that I expect him to say what I want to hear when I want to hear it. I said that’s not true. You can NEVER talk about anything that is important to ME. After four years and going on five years I deserve a conversation about where your thoughts are regarding the future. I told him that it can’t be his way or the highway every time. So his response was “yes it is though, with this situation it is”. So I told him that’s your answer? You won’t even discuss with me? I’m so tired of living as a wife, being such a wonderful woman to you and your children and you can’t even respect me enough or love me enough to talk to me about something that is so important to me? Your spiked brownies and beers are your priority? He said that if I would have waited till later in the evening that we could talk. So I said ok, we’ll talk later. He said never mind, that I spent my dime *****ing him out and that I ruined my chance to talk. Now, I didn’t even say or do anything bad! How can I be punished for wanting to have an adult conversation?"

Talking at him about this obviously does no good. Maybe if you tell him you are making an exit plan, he will sit up and take notice, but I have my doubts that it will change anything with him, unfortunately.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

OP even you say this yourself:



> *he is super proud and stubborn, spoiled and won’t do anything if he feels “forced” to*.


And what praytell are you doing with this marriage talk? His perception of the conversation you keep trying to have is why it doesn't get anywhere.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

We already know what's going to happen if you try to talk to him. Why can't you see it?


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks all, you're all helping so much. I want to reiterate that the main conversation right now was the living situation and how he won't budge or meet halfway or care to discuss it. This has been what is driving me crazy. The fact that he won't talk. The fact that it's not 50/50.

Do you know that he even wanted to rent/or rent to own the house directly across the street from where his ex and her new husband lives? How awkward would that be? I'm sure she doesn't want him there. Secondly, how is he going to get approved for a place like that? LIke I feel like he's living in la la land.

So right now the main point of argument is where we will life in June and I mentioned the marriage thing because it would be easier for me to want to do what he wants to do if I were his wife but I'm not so why should I budge? Confom to what he wants and move from home to home, town to town following her and his children because his ex can't keep her legs closed?

That's why this argument has come up. Because he won't even let me discuss my side of things.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Because he won't even let me discuss my side of things.


You've ALLOWED him to have his way. You've given him permission to walk all over you for 5 years now. You have trained him to treat you this way with all your niceness and refusing to stand up for yourself.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> So right now the main point of argument is where we will life in June and I mentioned the marriage thing because it would be easier for me to want to do what he wants to do if I were his wife but I'm not so why should I budge? Confom to what he wants and move from home to home, town to town following her and his children because his ex can't keep her legs closed?
> 
> That's why this argument has come up. Because he won't even let me discuss my side of things.



And let's be real here. You taught him how to do that with you. You've been very very accommodating. Up until now anyway. Yes, you may have expressed distaste for his actions but you always follow it up by giving in to him and what he wants. You said it yourself, you live life by his terms. Now you wonder why he's acting this way with you??

YOU TAUGHT HIM HOW.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Damn Mavash I couldn't even get the post out good and you read my mind...


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> Damn Mavash I couldn't even get the post out good and you read my mind...


Great minds think alike. 

Nothing like yet another poster blaming their problems on the OTHER person like they had no say whatsoever in what happened to them.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> Great minds think alike.
> 
> Nothing like yet another poster blaming their problems on the OTHER person like they had no say whatsoever in what happened to them.


Victim mentality. Well no siree bub, that's not really how it went. You _chose_ to skip down this path right along with them.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Confused, you can either continue to have him call all the shots and you resentfully follow his lead or you can make June and the lease ending the stand off.

It's up to you. Keep going along with his program or get one of your own.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Thanks all, you're all helping so much. I want to reiterate that the main conversation right now was the living situation and how he won't budge or meet halfway or care to discuss it. This has been what is driving me crazy. The fact that he won't talk. The fact that it's not 50/50.
> 
> Do you know that he even wanted to rent/or rent to own the house directly across the street from where his ex and her new husband lives? How awkward would that be? I'm sure she doesn't want him there. Secondly, how is he going to get approved for a place like that? LIke I feel like he's living in la la land.
> 
> ...


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

confused_female said:


> I want to reiterate that the main conversation right now was the living situation and how he won't budge or meet halfway or care to discuss it. This has been what is driving me crazy. The fact that he won't talk. The fact that it's not 50/50.


In 5 years has it EVER been 50/50? I'm guessing no. So why on earth would you think he'd change now?

And he IS talking with actions which speak louder than words. He's TOLD you he won't budge, meet you halfway or discuss it.

Now the balls in your court. I agree with A bit much either move where he wants or end it in June when the lease is up. Last time I checked he isn't holding a gun to your head. You can say no you know this right?


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Nothing like yet another poster blaming their problems on the OTHER person like they had no say whatsoever in what happened to them.


I know, right?

It's like the other person is the only one who is allowed to make these decisions. Even though the other person is usually a parasitic leech feeding off the person who feels powerless to do anything about it.

"This merri-go-round is spinning so fast I think I might throw up! I don't like this at all!"

"Have you considered getting off?"

"Um...no"


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

3xnocharm - do you really think that's why he wanted to move across the street from his ex and her new husband? I think it's because it's more convenienet to be across the street from his two young children?

Or I could be wrong.

I know it could be over in June but I'm so scared to end it.

So you all recommend not talking. Just staying quiet and letting this continue to go or do I try talking after this week? Give him time to live up to his promise of talking this week?

Also, when we first starte dating all he talked about was marriage, how I was so much better than her, how he wishes he met me first and then I even gave him an ultimatum then. Told him that I could not be serious with him unless he divorced and this is when he started the divorce process. He got lazy with it though and poof..here I am.

I'd like to know if there is a way for him to learn to respect me again. If there is any hope?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Just staying quiet and letting this continue to go or do I try talking after this week? Give him time to live up to his promise of talking this week?


How many more times you want to beat that dead horse? Stop talking.

If he doesn't say a word to you this week, next week, the week after... he's giving you his answer. Don't bring it up, don't remind him of his promise, just let the week roll on. In the meantime, start making your plans.

June is it. If you want it to be anyway. What are you so afraid of? Show your daughter how a strong woman handles her business.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

confused_female said:


> 3xnocharm - do you really think that's why he wanted to move across the street from his ex and her new husband? I think it's because it's more convenienet to be across the street from his two young children?
> 
> Or I could be wrong.
> 
> ...


I can understand wanting to be close to the kids...however, this is the man who took like FOUR years to get his divorce finalized. AND most ex spouses would NOT want to be that close to an ex after divorce, kids or no kids, unless they still had feelings there.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

confused_female said:


> I know it could be over in June but I'm so scared to end it.
> 
> So you all recommend not talking. Just staying quiet and letting this continue to go or do I try talking after this week? Give him time to live up to his promise of talking this week?


There is nothing left to talk about. He isn't changing his mind about following his wife around, and he isn't changing his mind about marriage.

The only mind to change is yours. Stop talking. Tell him he'll be moving out when the lease is up, and you'll be moving on.

Or waste more of your time trying to convince him that he really loves you, is really in love with you, and isn't still in love with his wife and 5 years later, you'll be back here wondering why you still aren't married to this loser.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

:iagree:

I have to agree with 3Xnocharm.

....and norajane...and a bit much...


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

confused_female said:


> 3xnocharm - do you really think that's why he wanted to move across the street from his ex and her new husband? I think it's because it's more convenienet to be across the street from his two young children?
> 
> Or I could be wrong.
> 
> ...


These are your choices:
-stay which means accepting that he doesnt want to get married and that he runs the show. Things will be how he wants without much if any consideration for your thoughts and feelings
-leave


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

He got divorced two years into our relationship and has been divorced for three of them.

Sorry but all of you really think that it's because of the ex wife. Still? Did you read the part that I gave him an ultimatium to divorce? And he started the process?

I just don't get why you're all so stuck on him loving her and everything is because of her.

Sorry but it's just crazy to me..I know that I'm crazy right now, beleive me.

Just want to make sure I'm thinking and seeing this right. All because of her?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Nope, not because of her. Because of him. He doesn't respect you, doesn't respect your needs/wants... And that's not going to magically change just because you get married. He's a druggie, alcoholic, self-centered, and seems to be pretty much a loser, based on what you've posted in here. Has nothing to do with whether he's still in love with her or anything.

C


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

confused_female said:


> He got divorced two years into our relationship and has been divorced for three of them.
> 
> Sorry but all of you really think that it's because of the ex wife. Still? Did you read the part that I gave him an ultimatium to divorce? And he started the process?
> 
> ...


Maybe it is maybe it isnt. The point is you are not happy and your needs are not being met. If it isnt because of his ex does that make it ok?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Did you read the part that I gave him an ultimatium to divorce? And he started the process?


So you think this worked to your benefit? OMG.

What have you gained here? Be honest with yourself. We see it and we don't even know you. Theres NOTHING about this man that's appealing and/or marriage material.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

confused_female said:


> I just don't get why you're all so stuck on him loving her and everything is because of her.


Because he has shown you that he is most certainly NOT all about YOU.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I just had another thought.

Could it be that since you 'forced' his hand to proceed with a divorce, he's purposely and deliberately avoiding the marriage conversation? As a way to show you a couple things... 1) he can't be forced to do what he doesn't want to do, and 2) out of anger for feeling forced out of something he wasn't ready to do in the first place?

People do strange things when they're pissed off.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

norajane that doesn't mean it's because of her though.

Can it be because he's guarded and scared of being who he was before? Afraid that I'll do that to him?

I'm trying to look at it through every angle as I love him and there is so much invested.

I can't believe that it's only because he "still is in love with her"


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You can crystal ball his brain all day and night confused, the only person that truly knows why he won't talk about it is him.

Refusal to even talk about it should tell you PLENTY. It shouldn't have to turn into WW3. A man that wants to marry you ACTS LIKE IT, and has NO problems talking about it with you in great detail. It's their life too you know.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

confused_female said:


> norajane that doesn't mean it's because of her though.
> 
> *Can it be because he's guarded and scared of being who he was before? Afraid that I'll do that to him*?
> 
> ...


Even if the bolded part is true. He is not the man he used to be. He may never be again. You have been loving, caring, loyal, etc...all these years. It hasnt made him turn back into the man you "think" he was. This isnt your fault, its not because you are lacking in some way. Its not under your control.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

confused_female said:


> Can it be because he's guarded and scared of being who he was before? Afraid that I'll do that to him?


Okay, I'm going to chime in here after reading this entire thread. And I'm going to try to do this as nicely as possible. Quit trying to figure him out. You don't live inside his brain. We don't live inside of his brain. If he's ingesting pot and/or booze everyday, his brain is going to change with the mood du jour. 

When we spend OUR time trying to figure out other people's motivations and reasoning, we are doomed. So ask him. Just come out and say, "Are you scared of being who you used to be? Are you afraid I will hurt you?" Go ahead and ask, because I assure you, nobody out here in cyberspace knows what is going on inside his head.



confused_female said:


> I can't believe that it's only because he "still is in love with her"


Okay, maybe it's not because he is "still in love with her." But he isn't all that into you either, is he? Maybe the $6 million question here should be: just what is it YOU are getting out of this relationship with HIM that makes you stay?

And I don't mean how he talked marriage all the time when you first got together. That was then. This is now. People change their minds. Why? Who knows? But people do. He has. 

You need to take just a minute or two in this entire thread to look at yourself. Okay, you love him. You are committed to him. WHY?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

One of the original questions that was asked was "Am I wasting my time?"

I don't think one person in 4 pages of this thread said no, you're not wasting your time, hang in there. After hearing his description and backstory we all are having difficulty understanding why such a seemingly nice and generous woman is hanging onto a piece of man like this. Help us out OP.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

confused_female said:


> norajane that doesn't mean it's because of her though.
> 
> Can it be because he's guarded and scared of being who he was before? Afraid that I'll do that to him?
> 
> ...


Confused, may I suggest two things:

1) Individual counseling, to find out the root of your co-dependence and neediness;

2) To accept that you will be *nothing more* than a live-in cook, maid, babysitter, and chauffeur if you stay with this man.

Would you throw good money after bad, in a bad financial investment? "Oh, if I toss in another three grand after the ten grand I already lost, I might get something back." I hate to tell you this, but you have lost all your "money" in this relationship. You were the rebound, and you forced his hand. If someone wants to be with a person, they clean up their business FAST. They don't wait two or three years to do anything.

He's telling you (not in so many words) that he does NOT want marriage, he does NOT think much of your priorities and needs, and he will not accept other points of view. That kind of person is NOT marriage material. Real relationships are about compromise and working together.

I don't doubt *you* love him enough to want it legalized. He's told you he doesn't want to. Why are you trying to force a different answer? YOU do not control him. He is who he is -- regardless of the reason -- and he is not a good investment.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

sunvalley said:


> Confused, may I suggest two things:
> 
> 1) Individual counseling, to find out the root of your co-dependence and neediness;
> 
> ...


Well said....and to repeat...THIS MAN IS NOT MARRIAGE MATERIAL


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Can it be because he's guarded and scared of being who he was before? Afraid that I'll do that to him?
> 
> I'm trying to look at it through every angle as I love him and there is *so much invested*.


1) You're trying to rationalize. "Oh poor pitiful man has been cheated on and had his heart broken" AND so what? What does that have to do with you and YOUR needs?

And the answer is here.

2) You fell in love with a married man and now you've invested so much that it's going to be VERY hard to leave. 

This is on you.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

confused_female said:


> I’m the first woman he took home to his family after a long time. *How do you know this, if I may ask? Did he tell you, or his family tell you? If it is true, he took you home because a narcissist (as your man's own sisters explained he is), only cares about how he looks to others. Their real personality comes out to the ones in their personal lives. I have a feeling there was way more to the divorce than he's told you ... but this isn't the appropriate place for such a discussion.*
> 
> I just don’t get why he was so different to his ex wife. He has so much respect for her even after all that she put him through, etc. and I get this guarded man who doesn’t respect what I need/want when I’m so good to him? *He still has feelings for her -- and whether that's right or wrong is not for you to decide. Again, Confused, you don't control him. Only HE controls himself, and only he can fix his problems.*
> 
> ...


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

It's your dream. His dream was shattered and he hasn't recovered from it. You have to ask yourself. How will he benefit by getting married again? He doesn't sound religious so that's not a motivation for him. At this point he has everything he needs physically, financially and domestically. The only way to find out if he can live without you is to live without you.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Enginerd said:


> It's your dream. His dream was shattered and he hasn't recovered from it. You have to ask yourself. How will he benefit by getting married again? He doesn't sound religious so that's not a motivation for him. At this point he has everything he needs physically, financially and domestically. The only way to find out if he can live without you is to live without you.


I completely agree...
BUT its time to start thinking about YOUR dreams, needs, motivations and benefits and NOT HIS.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Hello and thank you Emerald - He married her because she got pregnant. According to him, she cheated and left him and she wanted to work it out and he didn't. I do speak with her and she did confirm that she cheated on him and wants nothing to do with him.
> 
> Not sure what to believe.
> 
> ...


Oh dear...he respects her because he still has very STRONG feelings for her.

Just because she got pregnant does not mean he didn't love her. He not only married her, he had another child with her & I highly doubt that she cheated the entire time they were married..remember she was pregnant at least 18 months.......

Regardless, he does not want to marry you. He may never want to get married again if his marital experience was as bad as you say.

If you love him so much, then learn how to ACCEPT him exactly like he is & have no more expectations of marriage from him. It would be better for your self-esteem & depression to learn how to stand up to him in the long run.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

He doesn't love you. Or at least, he doesn't love you enough.

And you need to do a bit of soul searching to find out why you would love someone who uses drugs, is inconsiderate, doesn't treat you with respect and is open about telling you he's not willing to meet you half way.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Five years and no ring and he won't even discuss? Time to move on. You need to give him an ultimatum. Tell him he commits or you leave. Time for it to be your way or the highway. If he lets you go then you never really had him to begin with and he was just using you.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

What would you tell your daughter if she was in this situation?

After 5 years, he just isn't going to marry you. He doesn't sound like much of a catch anyway with the drug, alcohol, and finance issues.

I wouldn't talk anymore.

I would get some individual counseling to sort this all out and be able to move on in June.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Good morning everyone – I’ve been reading all of your responses and again, am so grateful for all of your input. You’re truly helping me put so much perspective to the situation. I can tell you all that I’m numb today. I picked him up from his best friend’s house yesterday after work and decided to bring it up again since he promised we’d talk this week, he knew how upset I was the other day and I figured we had time in the car to chat so why not? So I asked nicely. I said do you want to get ice cream, go park at the beach and talk? He just looked at me with a smirk. Didn’t even say a word. I said calmly “are you not even going to respond” and that was hard because I almost LOST it on him, in not a good way so I took a deep breath and waited. He said there really is nothing to say. What do you want me to say? I said just tell me what your thoughts are, what you’re thinking? He said that he doesn’t have anything different to say and that he wants to be a part of the girls lives every day and he can’t do that living 20 minutes from them, which absolutely absurd to me by the way because I think its’ hard being 20 minutes away because of HIS laziness and lack of drive to do anything positive anymore it seems. 

I didn’t say that though and then he said “you wouldn’t be having this conversation with me if we were talking about your daughter?” and I said that’s where you’re wrong. I would make sure that it worked for EVERYONE, not just one person! That’s what being in a relationship and team is all about. I told him that our previous city was his choice and I went there and this is when they lived almost an hour away and I said I just don’t get why there is no compromise when I’ve sacrificed and lived like a wife and have done all that makes you happy. He said that I don’t have to do any of that stuff anymore. That hurt me so bad! 

Then I said I don’t get why you can’t see things through my eyes and he said “I don’t ever want to look at things the way you look at them”. I said what is that supposed to mean? He said I know how you talk and think and I don’t ever want to think like you do. So evil and mean. I said I don’t understand what you think of me and why you view me so poorly when I’ve done nothing to deserve that but I’m tired. This conversation should have gone with you saying we’ll take a look at houses together and go with the one that works for ALL of us. He said that he did say that about 3 months ago and he NEVER said that! If he did I’d never bring this conversation up. 

He said that he would prefer that I never talk about this again and that he wishes he had a mute button me. Again, so mean. I said so are you telling me that you want a girl just sits there and takes what you give her and is never supposed to open her mouth about how she feels? He stayed quiet. I said did your ex wife never talk about anything with you? Or did she not HAVE to talk about anything with you because you gave her everything she wanted? 

He said that he was annoyed because he felt forced to talk and trapped in car and he said I was yelling when I never yelled. I was REALLY calm. He said all you ever want to do is talk. You can’t go with the flow and let things happen naturally. Then he said you really know how to mess up and ruin a surprise. So I said what is that supposed to mean? 

He stayed quiet so I said listen, you’re not going to say anything, this is IT! If you feel that you are not going to be able to give me what I want or care to give me what I want and you don’t see a future for us TELL ME NOW! I will walk out of your life forever at this VERY moment. He stayed quiet again, just looked at me so I said it again, I’m giving you an OUT! Be a mature adult, be honest and if you cannot do it TELL ME NOW. He stayed quiet so I called him a coward and said that I have some major thinking to do, that I’m done talking. He said you have been thinking and I said no, I mean I really have some MAJOR thinking to do. I’ve given you so many chances and left it at that.

So he was so mean and still is. Then he mentioned that I ruined a surprise and can’t just go with the flow. What is that supposed to mean? Was he planning on proposing and I ruined it now because I want to talk? I’m just so confused. Has he been mean about it because I just haven’t “let him” do things and all I ever want to do is talk? 

I still don’t get the whole comment of I can never look at things through your eyes. Like I’m a bad person or something. Does he just seriously hate woman because of what she did? I feel like he blames me for what happened to him.

He was crying like a baby yesterday after he hung up the phone with his daughters. I know that he takes the blame for the fall of his marriage because she cheated and he got physical with her. If she wouldn't have made him leave after that he would still have his "family" None of that is MY fault though.

Sorry for the lengthy email but that surprise comment just really threw me a curve ball.

Or is he playing mind games? He has said three times now to let things happen naturally which is something he’s never said before.

Can you guys tell me what you think now? I’m really confused.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

We told you to not talk to him anymore about this, and his reaction is the reason why. 

You're not listening. You keep beating the dead horse and blaming yourself and YOU aren't the problem (not the core problem anyway).

So are you out in June or what? Please stop dissecting that ridiculous conversation. You're stalling the inevitable.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

He's playing you. There was no surprise. He saw his gravy train looking for the next stop to kick him off so he threw it out there to keep you hanging on to that little thread you are so desperately hanging on to.

If a man loves and wants you he will do anything to be with you and to make you happy. Even if he is insisting on living right next to his kids, if he loved you he would sit down and explain himself, let you know exactly why and how he is thinking and give you a chance to let him know how you feel. He doesn't care about how you feel at all. What he cares about is that you provide for him financially, you drive him around, you fill the void so he isn't alone, etc. If you leave how is he going to get around? How is he going to get a place? This man doesn't love you, he is flat out using you.

My SO and I have had the marriage discussion, he doesn't want to be married. But you know what? We sat down and talked about it the second he could tell that it was on my mind and bothering me. Because he loves me and doesn't like seeing me upset. Even if he wasn't telling me that he would marry me he talked to me to reassure me how he feels about me, that the marriage issue is just that, an issue with marriage itself and his past experiences, nothing to do with me. He took the time to explain himself and comfort me. Your SO has done NONE of that. Instead he yells at you, basically tells you to shut up and in no way shows you any love whatsoever. You need to take your blinders off and see how badly he is using you and cares very little for you.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

A bit much - Yes, I've decided that if by June things haven't changed that I'm out. I have to be a big girl about it and move on. 

Soifon - He is getting his own car next month. I feel like he feels helpless which is why so mean, etc. He's treating me the way she treated him.

But yes, I have to put my big girl panties on and move on. I know it's going to hurt like hell but I have no choice.

I feel so dumb. A beautiful, smart, LOVING unconditionally and selfless woman was used and abused by a man who give two you know what's.

And my self esteem is SHOT because of all of this. I don't even like myself anymore.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

I'm sorry to say Confused, but watch, the moment he has a car you will be left even further in the dust. If you want to boost your own self esteem start by taking control of this relationship. Stand your ground, leave and let yourself feel how empowering it is. This guy is dragging you down and holding you back from having a really happy, fulfilling life.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

He's not helpless. Stop feeling sorry for him. He's made choices in his life that he has to take responsibility for, and it's not YOUR JOB to fix him or 'make it all better'.

And you shouldn't be hurt, you should be angry. Angry at yourself that you allowed this nonsense to go on for all these years. These years you gave and cannot get back... it should motivate you to pursue your freedom from him with a sense of urgency. 

All of us make mistakes, and we should learn the lesson and move forward because when we know better we do better. Well you know what he's about. You know exactly whom you're dealing with. Marrying him is a mistake, and all of this (the fighting, power struggle and drama) is happening to keep you from making it.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Soifon, I'd be surpised if he's gone when has a car. He's not that dumb. He has no place to live yet.

Also, he doesn't even know this but there are so many times his ex wife, because we're friends, has said "if he wasn't with you I probably wouldn't even let him have the girls". Like he doesn't even get that he's going to lose so much when I'm gone.

He's pretty ballsy if you ask me. He's going to have a hard time finding a woman that will deal with all of his baggage.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

confused_female said:


> A bit much - Yes, I've decided that if by June things haven't changed that I'm out. I have to be a big girl about it and move on.
> 
> Soifon - He is getting his own car next month. I feel like he feels helpless which is why so mean, etc. He's treating me the way she treated him.
> 
> ...


I registered this morning to reply to another poster I was concerned about but you are the next poster I wanted to reply to.

You made a mistake. We all do. Be very thankful you didn't have a child with this man.

This was a learning experience for you so don't allow your self-esteem to be ruined. Move on, heal, and don't look back. It's never easy but it *can *be done. 

A much better man is out there waiting for you.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh he's totally playing you. There was no surprise. I agree he saw his gravy train leaving the station so he threw out this LAME comment to distract you. What's funny is he's not even good at it. He did it AFTER he was incredibly cruel and mean to you.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

What do you all mean by gravy train? I didn't threaten him before he said that? Sorry if a silly question but my brain is quite mushy at this point.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Soifon, I'd be surpised if he's gone when has a car. He's not that dumb. He has no place to live yet.


He doesn't have to move out to not be around you anymore. He gets a car and he will never be home, you will never be involved in anything he does. He'll keep living with you as long as you stick around and pay for stuff for him though. You REALLY need to just get rid of him.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

confused_female said:


> What do you all mean by gravy train? I didn't threaten him before he said that? Sorry if a silly question but my brain is quite mushy at this point.


It means that you are the one who does EVERYTHING for him. You pay for him, you drive him around, you take all of the adult responsibilities off of him so he can sit back and act like a little child while still reaping the benefits of being adult. All while he rides your back while you do all of it.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

It means he gets all the benefits of a wife, mother to him and his kids, caretaker, enabler, without actually having to DO or give anything back.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

confused_female said:


> Soifon, I'd be surpised if he's gone when has a car. He's not that dumb. He has no place to live yet.
> 
> Also, he doesn't even know this but there are so many times his ex wife, because we're friends, has said "if he wasn't with you I probably wouldn't even let him have the girls". Like he doesn't even get that he's going to lose so much when I'm gone.
> 
> He's pretty ballsy if you ask me. *He's going to have a hard time finding a woman that will deal with all of his baggage*.


I hate to break it to you, but he'll find another one. There are plenty of women out there just like you, and he'll seek her out.... IF he wants to be in any kind of relationship. He may decide he needs to be single for a bit, which isn't a bad idea considering.

Don't go busting your arm giving yourself a pat on the back for being able to tolerate years of bullsh!t, it's not something to be proud of. I speak from experience. I wish I had someone bust a 2x4 over my head for tolerating stuff as long as I did at one time. I was young and dumb though which gave me more time to recover from my mistakes. You are too old for this kind of crap. You deserve much better at this point in your life than that jerk.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> I hate to break it to you, but he'll find another one. There are plenty of women out there just like you, and he'll seek her out.


This is 100% true. My best friend left her toxic, abusive husband and just swore he'd never find anyone else. 

Right. He was dating again in no time.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> This is 100% true. My best friend left her toxic, abusive husband and just swore he'd never find anyone else.
> 
> Right. He was dating again in no time.


Gives new meaning for the saying 'there's a lid for every pot' doesn't it?

These types of guys look for these types of women. Only a broken woman would stick around such a person.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Confused, you said you were looking for an answer "once and for all." 

The problem is, some people won't give you that answer. Sometimes you have to give the answer to yourself. 

I also think he's playing you. I can guarantee that whatever "surprise" he was talking about was something insignificant at best, like taking you out to dinner to distract you from getting the information you need. You'd have felt cheated anyway.

He's putting his energy into being near the ex and the kids, and is NOT letting you be as important to him. I can't think of a single reason I would accept taking second chair, so what is your reason? 

The time you have invested is unfortunate, but how much MORE will you invest before you accept that it is what it is?

He's kind of an as$, if you ask me. I wouldn't tolerate someone talking to me the way he did to you. I wouldn't tolerate someone who doesn't invest as much as I do. It makes me wonder what is preventing you from treating yourself well...?

Yes, he'll find you easy to replace. Hopefully you won't find a similar replacement for him, though. You can find much better.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Well we'll see...he doesn't only have the baggage of his two girl (whom I don't consider baggage because I love them dearly) but his ex has another child from her first marriage that he has decided to want to continue to father at all times and I am expected to be a step mom to her as well when she's around. She is not even his bilogical daughter and he insists that she be treated like his when she's around.

So not only does he require that this person be a step mom to his daughters he's requiring that this person be a step mom to his non biolgical child who already has her REAL father in he life.

It's alot..believe me.

My fiances are so much different since being with him..now when we buy groceries it's a collective effort to feed three extra mouths..when it was just my daughter and I, I had lots more money. And this is with him helping me.

Trust me, this man is asking ALOT of someone. We'll see.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

confused_female said:


> Well we'll see...he doesn't only have the baggage of his two girl (whom I don't consider baggage because I love them dearly) but his ex has another child from her first marriage that he has decided to want to continue to father at all times and I am expected to be a step mom to her as well when she's around. She is not even his bilogical daughter and he insists that she be treated like his when she's around.
> 
> It's alot..believe me.


Baggage smaggage. YOU took it on, I guarantee someone else will too. Co-dependent women with very low self esteem are everywhere and he'll find one just like he found you to sign up.

I wouldn't be worried about your replacement. It's irrelevant. What IS relevant is how you plan the next 4 months out. No more marriage talk. No more moving talk. If you want to stay where you are so be it, but he has to go... look into eviction procedures if you plan to stay. If you move, move where YOU want to, it's your dime and credit here. He is out of the equation. Stop being his servant, it's not netting you anything but grief. You'll be only hurting yourself.

If you start focusing on your exit plan, dealing with him will get easier and easier. Trust me.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

confused_female said:


> A bit much - Yes, I've decided that if by June things haven't changed that I'm out. I have to be a big girl about it and move on.


I honestly don't know how you can stand to be around him considering his attitude toward you and the way he speaks to you and treats you.

I really wish you'd stop hoping he's going to change his mind about marriage. You would be STUCK with this ass who treats you like crap until you end up divorced. He is not capable of a healthy relationship, and you don't seem to know what a healthy relationship is since you want to continue with this unhealthy one.

You say your hate yourself now? Imagine how you'll feel with more years with him.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Firstly I am sorry that you are in this situation, but I think that you know what should happen here, its just not what you had hoped would happen. You say a man and the potential for what he could be, but his focus is on his girls. I really can't fault him for that, except that he has led you on to believe this story was going to end differently (happily ever after). I really don't see why you would want to wait until June. Let him get a car and give him his 30 day notice. You have already acknowledged that it is time for you to put your big girl pants on, don't wait 3 months to do so. You are way to fine of a person to settle for a life that is an after thought to someone else.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks everyone - I'm so happy I found this site. Don't know what I'd do without it at this point. I'm feeling stronger. 

I am taking personally, however, the fact that he views me like I'm a bad person?

As if my esteem isn't bad enough. 

Have any of you been through that and know why this would happen?

Do you think because he hates women because of his ex?

Also, his mom was very abusive to him when growing up so he may just hate women, period.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Who cares why he does it? You don't need to excuse it with excuses.

The only thing you need to worry about is why you take it from him!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Who cares why he does it? You don't need to excuse it with excuses.
> 
> The only thing you need to worry about is why you take it from him!


:iagree:

I think it would be FAR more productive if you give some thought to why you have allowed yourself to accept this kind of treatment from him, why you have stayed so long when your needs were dismissed by him, and why you want to marry a man who treats you badly.

He is who he is, but you can work through your issues to seek out a better relationship in the future where you are treated well. And work through your issues so you can more easily recognize when you are being treated badly and show him the door because you know you deserve better.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

> I am taking personally, however, the fact that he views me like I'm a bad person?
> 
> As if my esteem isn't bad enough.
> 
> Have any of you been through that and know why this would happen?


I do. It's because your self esteem is tied up in how OTHER people that you deem valuable see you. BTW this is why this man picked you. Subconsciously he knew you were ripe for the picking. He could treat you like crap and knew you'd take it.

This is rooted in childhood generally and continues until you take steps to fix it.



> Do you think because he hates women because of his ex?
> 
> Also, his mom was very abusive to him when growing up so he may just hate women, period.


Yes he hates women because of his ex. Yes he hates women because he was abused by a woman in his childhood.

The question you should be asking is why would you want to be with someone who hates women instead of asking WHY they do?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

confused_female said:


> I am taking personally, however, the fact that he views me like I'm a bad person?


Well, of course your feelings are hurt. But this guy has made it clear that you aren't number one on his list of priorities. See, if you felt inside yourself that you were a good person, you wouldn't even be wasting your time with this man.

Our self-esteem is an inside job, as is our happiness.




confused_female said:


> Do you think because he hates women because of his ex?


You have read numerous responses, but for some reason you don't seem to listen. You really are stuck. And until you are willing to stop with this masochistic behavior, you are going to continue driving yourself nuts.

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Thus, you remain focused on "why does he do this?" or "why does he do that?" This man does not respect you. YOU do not respect you. And nobody here, I assure you, cares to plumb the depths of this jerk's soul. Nor should you.



confused_female said:


> Also, his mom was very abusive to him when growing up so he may just hate women, period.


Yes, it does sound like he hates women. But I think you already knew this. I hope you get into counseling.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Good point - I know I shouldn't be asking why. Again, it's a personal thing and wondering if he'll be better to the next person. I know that it shouldn't matter but because I'm so invested and self esteem is so shot I just wonder. There are so many what if's.

I, after this, will remain single for a while. Which is sort of scary considering my age. 38 is no young spring chicken ya know!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

confused_female said:


> Good point - I know I shouldn't be asking why. Again, it's a personal thing and wondering if he'll be better to the next person. I know that it shouldn't matter but because I'm so invested and self esteem is so shot I just wonder. There are so many what if's.
> 
> I, after this, will remain single for a while. Which is sort of scary considering my age. 38 is no young spring chicken ya know!


You had a life before him, you'll have one after him. The difference being you aren't 33 and are less impressionable to the charms of a snake. You'll see that kind coming from a mile away... that is if you take the time to work on yourself.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Good point - I know I shouldn't be asking why. Again, it's a personal thing and wondering if he'll be better to the next person. I know that it shouldn't matter but because I'm so invested and self esteem is so shot I just wonder. There are so many what if's.


I think it's okay to ask why at first but at some point you have to move on to it just IS.

And go ahead and answer the what if's. Take it all the way to the bitter end. Do you really truly believe he will treat the next one better? Really?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

confused_female said:


> ... wondering if he'll be better to the next person. I know that it shouldn't matter but because I'm so invested and self esteem is so shot I just wonder. There are so many what if's.


Look at it this way. When you first hooked up with this man, he talked marriage, commitment, blah, blah, blah. It got you hooked, didn't it? He'll do it again. Why? Because that's how he operates. He tells a woman what she wants to hear ... in the beginning. Then, once he's secure and settled in, he goes back to who he really is.

Yes, there are so many what if's. But basing our lives on what if's is magical thinking. Reality-based people deal with WHAT IS. It keeps us grounded in the present, allows us to release our past, and helps us to stop speculating/worrying/driving ourselves nuts about what may happen in the future.



confused_female said:


> I, after this, will remain single for a while. Which is sort of scary considering my age. 38 is no young spring chicken ya know!


Why not try looking at being single from a different perspective? If you are looking for a man to complete your life or fulfill you, I'm afraid you are going to be in for more disappointment and heartbreak. Do you have any hobbies? Interests? Anything you would enjoy learning to do, such as skiing, playing the guitar, jumping out of airplanes?

If you work on cultivating your own interests, and enjoy living in your own skin, you WILL attract the caliber of men who are good guys. Not perfect, not able to complete you, but someone who will treat you with respect. Corney as it sounds, "Respect Yourself" is crucial. Learn to do that, and you will not fall back into a similar situation again.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

At this point, I hope you don't wait until the lease is up. That is another 4 months. Since his name isn't on it, I would just tell him to get out or wait until he is gone and change the locks. Throw his junk out on the front lawn.

He has no right to be there anymore.

And yes this is exactly the kind of treatment he deserves.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

:iagree:
Absolutely....time for him to go. Better sooner than later. Then you can begin to heal.


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

Tigger said:


> At this point, I hope you don't wait until the lease is up. That is another 4 months. Since his name isn't on it, I would just tell him to get out or wait until he is gone and change the locks. Throw his junk out on the front lawn.
> 
> He has no right to be there anymore.


If he's been living there a while he may have a legal right to be there regardless of whether or not his name is on the lease.


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

So let me get this straight.....

This guy married the woman he loved, she cheated on him, took his daughters, then he got wrung through the family court system, and was probably financially impoverished. He's now 37, has no car, and probably no job (?), and resorts to smoking a lot of weed to feel better about the fact that he's lost everything and is basically a loser at mid-life.

You're 38, with a kid from a previous relationship, and in your words "no longer a spring chicken", and you want to get married.

Ask yourself, why the hell would he want to put himself through that again??!! Obviously, you two aren't going to have children, so why get married? What could possibly benefit this man from exposing himself to more legal and financial risk?

Honestly, I think this man probably got burned by his ex and the legal system. The love he has for his daughters probably makes them priority number one in his life. He's probably loves you and is content with your relationship as is.

As his girlfriend, you are not a legal/financial threat to him. As his wife, you are. Getting married is what you want, not what he wants. If you love him enough to stay with him forever then there's nothing stopping you from doing that. If your goal is to have the ring and piece of paper, then move on.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

It's more than just getting married. 

He wants to move across the street from his ex, says he could care less what she thinks and is mean.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

totamm said:


> If he's been living there a while he may have a legal right to be there regardless of whether or not his name is on the lease.


I'm sure he has plenty of money and connections to enforce that. 

People worry too much about what broke nobodys can potentially do.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Good point - I know I shouldn't be asking why. Again, it's a personal thing and wondering if he'll be better to the next person. I know that it shouldn't matter but because I'm so invested and self esteem is so shot I just wonder. There are so many what if's.
> 
> I, after this, will remain single for a while. Which is sort of scary considering my age. 38 is no young spring chicken ya know!


In other words, you're obsessing. It's not going to fix anything, you know!


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Good morning – So many people here have said that he’s still in love with his ex. Why does it have to be that? Why can’t it be that he is madly obsessed with his children? Or that he’s just a jerk in general because he’s a narcissist, etc.? From what I understand he was irresponsible financially when he was with her as well and did his “extra curricular’s” with her as well. I’ve also known that he would talk down to her and treat her badly as far as condescending and demeaning as well. So why is that he is still in love with her? That part is bothering me the most because I just don’t understand why it has to be just that?

Could it be that he respects her because she has all control over the kids? He doesn’t want to upset her because he’s afraid she’ll keep them from him? Or because he feels guilty that he lost it on her and he beat her because she cheated for so many years? So of course he takes the blame for the fall of the marriage and why he can’t be with his children. He wanted to work things out with her because of the kids. She would come home at 6:00am everyday while he was home with them because she was with her other man/other men. He stayed and endured it because he’s in love with his children. She had control over everything he did because of his CHILDREN. That’s the only thing he cares about. Does it HAVE to be that he still loves HER?

I’m sorry if I sound upset but like I said that is bothering me.


When we first started dating he was madly in love with me. Did whatever I wanted. If he knew I was upset about something,forget about it, I had him in the palm of my hand. He was deadly afraid that I was going to hurt him because of her. Things have changed because he’s done things that I’ve forgiven in the past and I’ve enabled him. I know that is my mistake and I now know that loving unconditionally isn’t the best approach which is unfortunate because that’s just who I AM. I don’t like pretending and playing games. 

Obviously, I am co-dependent and insecure because I haven’t left yet but at the same token I truly do love this man. With everything in me. It’s not easy. I’m taking the right steps to get help though as I’m here seeking advice, however, it’s not going to be an overnight fix. I need to gain the strength to do so. So many of you are like JUST DO ITand the truth is I can’t at this very second. He's been hurt and damaged as well so of course he has his issues and because of his mom abusing him and his ex wife, rightfully so. I'm sorry that I'm not a mean person and feels that everyone deserves to be loved, regardless.

I’m also making sure that I’ve tried every option before I move on. With that said, he respected me until I made him lose it. So how do I gain that back? Is it too late to turn the tables? I really would like to know. 

What is a 180? Does it seem like it could help my situation?

Sorry again I'm just making sure I try everything on my end before I say goodbye to him.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Good morning – So many people here have said that he’s still in love with his ex. Why does it have to be that? Why can’t it be that he is madly obsessed with his children? Or that he’s just a jerk in general because he’s a narcissist, etc.? From what I understand he was irresponsible financially when he was with her as well and did his “extra curricular’s” with her as well. I’ve also known that he would talk down to her and treat her badly as far as condescending and demeaning as well. So why is that he is still in love with her? That part is bothering me the most because I just don’t understand why it has to be just that?
> 
> Could it be that he respects her because she has all control over the kids? He doesn’t want to upset her because he’s afraid she’ll keep them from him? Or because he feels guilty that he lost it on her and he beat her because she cheated for so many years? So of course he takes the blame for the fall of the marriage and why he can’t be with his children. He wanted to work things out with her because of the kids. She would come home at 6:00am everyday while he was home with them because she was with her other man/other men. He stayed and endured it because he’s in love with his children. She had control over everything he did because of his CHILDREN. That’s the only thing he cares about. Does it HAVE to be that he still loves HER?
> 
> I’m sorry if I sound upset but like I said that is bothering me.


We don't know why he's obsessed with her. In my view, he is still stuck in his mind and heart with his marriage because it did not end on his terms. He probably also feels guilty for _beating _her for cheating (!!!!!). He didn't make the choice to leave her; his wife made the choices for him and she did it in a way that leaves deep scars.

So what? Why does it matter to you so much whether he's still in love with her, whether he's just not ready to let go of his fantasy of happy family, or whether he's obsessed with her because of their children? The end result is exactly the same for you - he's not "all in" as far as your relationship goes.



> When we first started dating he was madly in love with me. Did whatever I wanted. If he knew I was upset about something,forget about it, I had him in the palm of my hand. He was deadly afraid that I was going to hurt him because of her. Things have changed because he’s done things that I’ve forgiven in the past and I’ve enabled him. I know that is my mistake and I now know that loving unconditionally isn’t the best approach which is unfortunate because that’s just who I AM. I don’t like pretending and playing games.


Of course he's changed over 5 years. When you met him, he was still married and fresh from the cheating and violence in their home. Do you like who he is now? Do you like your relationship as it is now? Because that's all you have - now.

Unconditional love is a fairy tale, a fantasy. You've fixated on him as the man you want, come hell or high water, and that is what's driving your behavior. It's dysfunctional behavior, not love. 


> Obviously, I am co-dependent and insecure because I haven’t left yet but at the same token I truly do love this man. With everything in me. It’s not easy. I’m taking the right steps to get help though as I’m here seeking advice, however, it’s not going to be an overnight fix. I need to gain the strength to do so. So many of you are like JUST DO ITand the truth is I can’t at this very second. He's been hurt and damaged as well so of course he has his issues and because of his mom abusing him and his ex wife, rightfully so. I'm sorry that I'm not a mean person and feels that everyone deserves to be loved, regardless.


His psychological problems and damage are not something you can fix. They've taken a lifetime to develop into what they are, thus, they will take a lot of hard work - HIS hard work - to overcome them. A lot of therapy might help him, but HE has to do the work. And he has shown no signs of wanting to change himself at all. In fact, his issues are impacting your life - he is treating you badly and shows no signs that he even cares that he is hurting you.

You, on the other hand, are responsible for your co-dependent behavior. That's what you need to work on.



> I’m also making sure that I’ve tried every option before I move on. With that said, he respected me until I made him lose it. So how do I gain that back? Is it too late to turn the tables? I really would like to know.


You've been there 5 years. Is it getting better or worse?



> What is a 180? Does it seem like it could help my situation?


It's something from one of the books men promote around here for men who aren't getting sex from their wives. I think the theory is the wives have lost respect for the husbands because they have become doormats, so the men are told to work out, dress better, find their own interests, go out without their wives sometimes, make their own decisions and stick to them, stop kowtowing to their wives, stop giving as much affection, etc. Their wives are supposed to then respect them more because they are upping their game, but even if nothing changes, at least the men are becoming their own person again.

I haven't read the book, just what I've gleaned from here.



> Sorry again I'm just making sure I try everything on my end before I say goodbye to him.


That's exactly the problem. YOU want to try everything. HE does not want to try anything.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

After the way he talked to you the other night, you should be over it. What should be bothering you is that he feels within his RIGHT to talk to you that way, and treat you with less respect than you deserve.

Does he still love his ex? Who cares if he does? You and she are two different people and you just said yourself he mistreated her too. My question is why is that appealing? He is the same person he was with her. And guess what? It doesn't matter how GREAT you are to him, he's an ass.

You have to understand that there is NOTHING you need to do here. NOTHING. You've already done it... for almost 5 years you
have given him EVERYTHING. STOP. JUST STOP. 

I keep coming back to this thread (though it's frustrating the hell out of me) because I know how you feel. I've been there, a couple of times even before I finally understood. *People are who they are.* It doesn't matter how well I treat them, how much I give, how many counseling sessions I go to, self help books I read... they are who they are. I have learned to accept people 'as is'. If they are NOT on the same page as I am, it doesn't mean I'm deficient, or lacking in any areas, it means *we're not COMPATIBLE*. There's no fault in that for either of us. I can choose to stay and deal with the things I know can hurt me, or I can choose to move on and seek a happier situation, but I don't HAVE to force an incompatible situation. It's a waste of time, and time is way too valuable. I would rather spend it happy. Not 50% of the time, not 75% of the time, but 99.9% of the time.

You are at your crossroads here. Stay this course and you know what's in front of you. The ex in this picture has given you a road map to what your life may end up like with this man. You can absolutely do nothing about this and spend another 20 years feeling the way you feel right now, but you will only have yourself to blame. You can't put this on him the longer you stay. You're choosing to live this way, in this state of unfulfillment. You need to remind yourself of this every time you have a nagging question about his motives and when the things he says _bothers_ you. You're choosing this.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Read what Norajane wrote, now read it again. One more time. Is it starting to make sense yet?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *norajane said:* That's exactly the problem. YOU want to try everything. HE does not want to try anything


.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

The 180 is not about sex, the 180 is steps to protect yourself. 

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

I completely agree with A Bit Much post 107, that's from the heart.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Good morning – So many people here have said that he’s still in love with his ex. Why does it have to be that? Why can’t it be that he is madly obsessed with his children? Or that he’s just a jerk in general because he’s a narcissist, etc.? From what I understand he was irresponsible financially when he was with her as well and did his “extra curricular’s” with her as well. I’ve also known that he would talk down to her and treat her badly as far as condescending and demeaning as well. So why is that he is still in love with her? That part is bothering me the most because I just don’t understand why it has to be just that?
> 
> *CF, I'm probably going to pi$$ you off, and while that's not my intention, you're not hearing what you NEED to understand. Here you are going through all this pain and it's totally consuming you because you are abusing yourself with this.
> 
> ...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

Tell you what, Confused. Stay and be miserable. Obviously, you're not willing to listen to any advice, because it's not what you want to hear. 

You're making excuse after excuse (so much invested, he deserves to be loved, maybe he really will change, gotta do this gradually), so there's nothing else any of us can do. Apparently you enjoy drama and martyr-ism too much. You also apparently couldn't care less about yourself — which I feel sorry for your daughter about. She's learning it's okay to be run over and stepped on, as long as she waits for ANY scrap of attention. At least she'll have a man, right?

Take care.



confused_female said:


> Good morning – So many people here have said that he’s still in love with his ex. Why does it have to be that? Why can’t it be that he is madly obsessed with his children? Or that he’s just a jerk in general because he’s a narcissist, etc.? From what I understand he was irresponsible financially when he was with her as well and did his “extra curricular’s” with her as well. I’ve also known that he would talk down to her and treat her badly as far as condescending and demeaning as well. So why is that he is still in love with her? That part is bothering me the most because I just don’t understand why it has to be just that?
> 
> Could it be that he respects her because she has all control over the kids? He doesn’t want to upset her because he’s afraid she’ll keep them from him? Or because he feels guilty that he lost it on her and he beat her because she cheated for so many years? So of course he takes the blame for the fall of the marriage and why he can’t be with his children. He wanted to work things out with her because of the kids. She would come home at 6:00am everyday while he was home with them because she was with her other man/other men. He stayed and endured it because he’s in love with his children. She had control over everything he did because of his CHILDREN. That’s the only thing he cares about. Does it HAVE to be that he still loves HER?
> 
> ...


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Hello everyone - I hope you're all enjoying your weekends. Mine, not so much. You're all helping me be stronger. Needing more strength though. This morning he pulled one on me.

He borrowed my car to go to work this morning. I called him this afternoon because I had a car question. He seemed thoroughly annoyed that I didn't call the dealership prior to calling him. I figured since he is a man and works for a car company that he would know off the top of his head. Well, he didn't and I sensed frustration.

So I hung up on him. Texted him and said I just simply called to ask my boyfriend a car question. Had it been your ex wife calling regarding her, your daughters or the daughter that doesnt belong to you that you claim as yours your demeanor would have been totally different. 

He texted back and said that me calling him for that was stupid. That my daughter and I should have called the dealership to find out first. I told him that him telling his ex wife that she is doing a wonderful job at raising his daughters last week and him not ever thanking me, for example, the fact that I spent an entire weekend with them baking his favorite things and cooking his favorite downer while I was in major pain (had a minor surgical procedure) and him not thanking ME for that was stupid. I told him that he is acknowledging the wrong person.

His response to that text was "that's why we need time apart". THAT was his response!

Then I texted him and said that he doesn't love me and I agree that we need time apart but that I'm not surprised by his reply and that it's disgusting how he is.

He texted me that I need to stop comparing myself to people in his history because it's just that..HISTORY. And that I should look at the last few messages that I've sent to him and realize "who would want t marry that?" That my question about the car somehow turned into what he doesn't do for me as usual. Not the case. I was upset so I shot back at him.

Wow, talk about smack in the face. All because I was hurt by how he was annoyed with my car question and because he sent a random text to the woman that ruined his life but didn't acknowledge me. Now, he does say thank you occasionaly but last weekend was where I was looking for more appreciation than anything. I made his weekend special with his daughters and no thank you.

So he called and I said I'm tired of how he talks to me and that he can't expect me to be happy when he won't open up to me and talk and makes me feel insecure and all I'm looking for is appreciation from time to time and that I can never win with him. I told him that he's the FIRST man to ever tell me "we need time apart" so in his eyes, how does that work? He said he was unsure and just wanted to focus on work. I said you can pack a few bags and go stay at your friends. I told him that everything is about him and he said it's going to have to start being all about him because I don't appreciate what he does and I never notice when he does say thank you. Not the truth.

So I just want to know how my getting pissed off at him for talking to me and I feel rightfully so ticked about him thanking that witch who ruined his life who never deserves a thank you on a non-occasion. I can see if it were mother's day or something but for him to thank her for being a great mom out of the blue is ridiculous. so yes, I shot back. So now it's we need time apart this afternoon to a bit ago him texting me and telling me he wants to be close to me. Is that because i told him "yes, I agree we need time apart?"

I'm just so drained and wish I had the strength to say screw the break take your crap and get out for good but he has me feeling like I'm a bad girlfriend who should just relax and be cool and like it's all my fault. Like if I were more relaxed and didn't need to talk so much things would be better.

Am I wrong? I'm a confused mess...


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm not going to answer your questions anymore. Why? Because, sadly, you do not listen.

And I think this clown you are involved with is a loser. But, even though I think he's a loser, I actually see HIS point. You don't listen to him either.

No wonder he just stares at you when you start discussing, once again, the status of your relationship. While I am not taking his side, I can understand that he probably just wants you to shut up. He's told you seven ways to Sunday that he doesn't want to marry you at this point in time. He speaks to you with total disregard, or respect, for your feelings.

But here you are again - some 7 or 8 pages into this thread - once again asking, "why do I feel this way?" "why is he saying so-and-so?". 

And, please don't start some defensive rant about how you just came here for help. You came here to beat a dead horse. If you want help, re-read this entire thread. If you just want to vent, by all means be my guest.

But PLEASE quit asking questions as to why he thinks or feels or does WHATEVER. And as far as you? Quit asking us to validate what you feel. We are total strangers in cyberspace. Heck, feel whatever you so desire; you don't need our stamp of approval.

No, you are not a "confused mess." You are a woman who is rabidly codependent and obsessing about some man who isn't worth your time. But it's your time. So go spend it trying to dissect every little bit of minutiae in the relationship. 

Honestly, people have tried to help you, but like I said, you do not listen to squat. That's your right, but don't expect a lot more hand-holding here. People have given you their honest responses. Maybe you should try to take them to heart.


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## confused_female (Feb 20, 2013)

Ok I get it Prodigal but YES I came here for help. WAY HARSH!!!


Prodigal said:


> I'm not going to answer your questions anymore. Why? Because, sadly, you do not listen.
> 
> And I think this clown you are involved with is a loser. But, even though I think he's a loser, I actually see HIS point. You don't listen to him either.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes, it IS harsh. But being polite to you for 8 pages didn't sink in, did it? So the blunt truth is harsh? I beg to differ. What IS harsh is a man who treats you like crap, disrespects you, and uses you. Yet you "love" him.

Sorry, my dear lady, but you have been given wonderful advice. You came back on this morning with yet another post that wants to know "so what does he mean," and "what does he think," and "what should I do," and "why do I feel this way?".

To reiterate, read the entire thread again. People were darned nice to you. You did not listen. Fine, don't listen. But, as I said, do NOT expect more hand-holding or coddling. 

Put on your big girl panties and woman-up. Really.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

He is just doing more of the same. Blaming you just takes the focus off of him and puts it on to you. 

He shows over and over with his actions he has no regard for you. You had a surgery and instead of doing nice things for you, you are busting your hump cooking and watching his kids for him.

He would be nice because he doesn't want to lose his easy gravy life. So expect him to throw a few crumbs your way.

You know what to do. You really do and you can do it.

Have him pack his stuff and move in with a friend.


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

confused_female said:


> Am I wrong? I'm a confused mess...


All you want to know is if you're wrong?

I say you're right.

But how is that going to help you?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

confused_female said:


> I'm just so drained and wish I had the strength to say screw the break take your crap and get out for good but he has me feeling like I'm a bad girlfriend who should just relax and be cool and like it's all my fault. Like if I were more relaxed and didn't need to talk so much things would be better.
> 
> Am I wrong? I'm a confused mess...


What are you wondering what you're wrong about? Of course things would be much "better" if you'd just go back to being a doormat. Better for him, at least...

I'm not sure what else people can tell you... Everyone seems to be telling you the same thing. The reasons why he treats you the way he does aren't important (whether he's an ass, whether he's in love with his ex, whether it's because of the way she treated him)... The fact is that he IS taking advantage of you, and you're letting him. And he's not likely to stop until you make him stop. He's got a good thing going.

C


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

If he married you tomorrow, what would you gain exactly?

a husband who doesnt respect you, care for you, treat you well, have interest in anything you say . . . etc

Why do you want this?


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