# recent fitness test



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

A few nights ago.....

We had a great evening, I made and cleaned up dinner. Afterwards I helped with a landscaping project my W designed in the backyard. It looks great. 

At 9:30 we finish working in the yard I ask if there is anything else I can do. She says no. I decide to walk the dogs and go out to let her know so she can decide whether to join me. 

As I come up to her she says to me in an irritated voice "I just shut the hatch" in my car since you forgot. I am thinking "hmmm - I made and cleaned up dinner and spent an hour with you on the yard - you are very welcome.". I don't say any of that and instead respond with an even tone "I am going to walk the dogs - want to come"? 

She responds as usual when declining a walk, very contrite: "I am sorry, I know I should come with you, is it ok if I don't". I come back with "Babe, after the huge workout you just got closing the hatch there is no way I would expect you to walk 2-3 miles". So she gives me a wicked smile - throws a few light punches at me while laughing and I leave. So I leave and she is clearly laughing/happy.

Come back an hour later walk into the bathroom say hello and get brief but very hostile body language. Internally I feel a surge of anger. WTF - I leave the house and the emo temperature is at a balmy 85 - and return an hour later to freezing rain. Frankly I am not dressed for it. I don't say a word. I get in the shower and she starts talking like everything is normal. I respond briefly and am "neutral". Not my normal warm vibe - just flat. 

We get in bed and now I am getting the super friendly, super loving treatment. She thanks me for dinner/cleaning up. Thanks me for helping with the yard. So I figure - damn - so much for my pseudo telepathy - maybe it was just a bad read - and I "imagined" the hostility thing. And hour later after a steady emotional steam sauna of near 100 degrees she is drifting off to sleep and says quietly "sorry for being such a biitch when you first got back from your walk". I just said "I love you" and we went to sleep. 

Ten years ago - that non-verbal sucker punch I got walking into the bathroom would have produced an instant and volcanic response and a complete melt down on both sides.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

And those volcanic eruptions serve the purpose of the spouse trying to maintain the upper hand in the "I'm more important than you" game.

"You made things so much worse that I don't feel like I should apologize for whatever I did."


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I’m currently staying with son and partner. Son’s partner (SP) is a whole new experience for me. My wife had a constant smile on her face as though nothing was ever troubling her. Over time I learnt the difference between her real smile and her put on smile.

SP is totally different, if something is troubling her it shows on her face. At first I thought it was to do with me and just kind of waited it out. Then sometime later she would talk about her troubles in a very (for me) intimate way. And of course her troubles were about work, something to do with her family or friends.

This open display of emotions and ready emotional intimacy is something I’ve been without for a very long time. I just love it.

I think we’re wrong (and dare I say it somewhat paranoid) to think the emotions a person we are with is experiencing are solely because of us and our presence.

Bob


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I think we’re wrong (and dare I say it somewhat paranoid) to think the emotions a person we are with is experiencing are solely because of us our presence.
> 
> Bob


My counselor tells me this all the time.

It's a paranoia thing - a co-dependent way of thinking that we are responsible for how our SO behaves, feels, etc.

Most of the times we're actually not responsible and how they feel or are behaving has NOTHING at all to do with us (as you aptly pointed out).

I'm starting to get it...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> My counselor tells me this all the time.
> 
> It's a paranoia thing - a co-dependent way of thinking that we are responsible for how our SO behaves, feels, etc.
> 
> ...


As a former codependent it is EXCEEDINGLY FREEING to take myself out of the equation as far as others emotions are concerned.

But then again no man (or woman) is an island, in that our emotions are affected by others and we do affect others emotions.

Bob


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I think many/most just jump to that "OMG what did I do wrong?" panic at first. For me, though, as soon as I hear that in my head I've practiced saying: "STOP! Now, think over the last few (minutes...hours) objectively. Be honest, is there something that occurred?" 

I realize that's kind of mechanical but by the same token, that's the way it happens in my head, and it helps me keep from being paranoid or co-dependent. It's also amazing the other way: when something does spark my anger (like MEM's test after the walk) to say "STOP! I get to choose how to respond here. I can choose to not engage. Is it worthy of anger?" 

Given the same circumstances that MEM was in, I would have probably flashed anger inside my head...said, "Wow. Okay I'm walking away to think about that greeting" and left the room. Then again I'm an INFP and rather than respond in a flash I tend to wait until the emotion settles and I can think (which takes a minute).


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

That is true. Though I don't believe her motivation was to accomplish that outcome. I actually think she was angry about something that falls into the "my H is not perfect" bucket. She didn't vocalize it because I would have likely responded with - so I do 9 things you like, inadvertently do 1 you dislike and the result is you are very angry with me. Followed by a deep sigh. Which is my way of saying - ok - I accept that you are not happy with me. 

BTW - I would have been perfectly fine with her saying "Hey, I noticed you forgot to do X today, next time it would be good if you didn't forget that". I would have apologized and made a mental note. I WANT feedback. I WANT to be a great partner. That said, starting with a "content free" blast of hostility simply causes me to detach, relax and wait for "content". 

As for this interaction as a whole. My view is that my part is about me. Losing my temper is completely about me. Acting like a jerk which is a certain outcome when I lose my temper and speak is all about me. 



Conrad said:


> And those volcanic eruptions serve the purpose of the spouse trying to maintain the upper hand in the "I'm more important than you" game.
> 
> "You made things so much worse that I don't feel like I should apologize for whatever I did."


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bob,
I agree with that. And it is also true that just as you learned to read your wife's real smile from her fake smile I am usually able to differentiate between her "I am angry at someone/something else" and "I am angry at YOU". Her last comment of the night confirmed that my read was accurate and she was indeed "angry at me" about something. 



AFEH said:


> I’m currently staying with son and partner. Son’s partner (SP) is a whole new experience for me. My wife had a constant smile on her face as though nothing was ever troubling her. Over time I learnt the difference between her real smile and her put on smile.
> 
> SP is totally different, if something is troubling her it shows on her face. At first I thought it was to do with me and just kind of waited it out. Then sometime later she would talk about her troubles in a very (for me) intimate way. And of course her troubles were about work, something to do with her family or friends.
> 
> ...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MEM,

When you have true attraction for your spouse, you DO want to be the best partner you can be.

You want to hit the mark.

With that said, if I saw that "look" you describe on my partner's face, I KNEW it was about me.

98/100 I was correct.

I've sadly realized this is her issue and not mine. Therefore, I cannot fix it. She is now in a place where perhaps she can.

I'm not holding my breath.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AC,
It was tempting to ask her "what is wrong"? I resisted the urge because I left her smiling and returned to her glaring. So I knew I hadn't directly done anything. It could have been something like she noticed crumbs on the counter while I was out and thought "why can't he ever clean the counters as well as I do". 

Tempting as it was to ask, why would I? When she has a legitimate gripe I listen, and apologize and make more of an effort in that area. That said it is not my job to manage "her" communication. If she is radiating anger, I radiate calm and detachment and wait for her to either stop with the bad body language or tell me what is on her mind. 

And it is also true that the one area of our marriage where she tends to be less than truthful is in regard to her own body language/tone of voice. At least half the time when I have asked "what was that look for" she replies with "what look". Overall she is very honest. In this one area though she really struggles. 

I have learned that if I remain calm we quickly get to a good outcome. And "good" could mean she explains what she is thinking and I profusely apologize. Or we have a balanced conversation and I understand and empathize. Or I respectfully disagree with her viewpoint. 

It really feels like the ONLY determinant in the quality of outcome is me. Not angry = almost 100 percent constructive outcome. Angry = almost 100 percent bad interaction. Because she is somewhat volatile, but actually quite sane. And once the "flare" burns out she is quite even handed in how she sees our interactions. 



Affaircare said:


> I think many/most just jump to that "OMG what did I do wrong?" panic at first. For me, though, as soon as I hear that in my head I've practiced saying: "STOP! Now, think over the last few (minutes...hours) objectively. Be honest, is there something that occurred?"
> 
> I realize that's kind of mechanical but by the same token, that's the way it happens in my head, and it helps me keep from being paranoid or co-dependent. It's also amazing the other way: when something does spark my anger (like MEM's test after the walk) to say "STOP! I get to choose how to respond here. I can choose to not engage. Is it worthy of anger?"
> 
> Given the same circumstances that MEM was in, I would have probably flashed anger inside my head...said, "Wow. Okay I'm walking away to think about that greeting" and left the room. Then again I'm an INFP and rather than respond in a flash I tend to wait until the emotion settles and I can think (which takes a minute).


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM I think you handled it beautifully. However as a recovering ***** I would like to point out that it takes time for us to learn to control it. It leaves in stages. I'm the type of woman to get upset over yes crumbs on the counter. Stupid stuff. I went from yelling about it, to glares to now I take deep breaths, change my body language and remind myself that I love my husband way more than I care about the stupid counter. Occasionally I slip but I'm able to stop almost immediately and give my husband a hug, communicate, something to melt my cold exterior. I say all this because the part where she did apologize tells me she's aware of her behavior (thanks to you) and is responding.


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## max456 (May 4, 2011)

Sometimes I find this type of behaviour is testing to see if your good day/evening was just that - a singular event. To that end, you handled it great IMHO. I think the more effort you put forth to have more such evenings, where you clearly demonstrate you going above and beyond what you may otherwise normally do, ultimately pays positive dividends.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Conrad,
I have simply learned to take a deep breath and accept that, that is how SHE is feeling. And there is nothing for me to do until/unless she elects to express her thoughts in words. 




Conrad said:


> MEM,
> 
> When you have true attraction for your spouse, you DO want to be the best partner you can be.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Max,
That is not the case in this particular type scenario. MOST evenings go well/very well. I make the effort for that to happen. And there is a routine that tends to produce a positive response so I generally follow that routine. 



max456 said:


> Sometimes I find this type of behaviour is testing to see if your good day/evening was just that - a singular event. To that end, you handled it great IMHO. I think the more effort you put forth to have more such evenings, where you clearly demonstrate you going above and beyond what you may otherwise normally do, ultimately pays positive dividends.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,
The truth is - had she said "Babe, can you try to remind yourself to wipe down the counters when you finish cooking" I would have said 'oops my bad, would you like me to go do that now'. 

And she knows that. She was simply having a stressful day overall and something I did or didn't do caused her to have an outsize reaction. Not worth a "fight" to me. And apparently she felt the same way since she quickly went into "steam sauna" mode. 

I love my W. I love her edge, her aggression. And this is just the occasional "misfire" of an edgy/aggressive person. 

I love her mischievous smile. I love and fear her wicked smile. I just love love love her. 





magnoliagal said:


> MEM I think you handled it beautifully. However as a recovering ***** I would like to point out that it takes time for us to learn to control it. It leaves in stages. I'm the type of woman to get upset over yes crumbs on the counter. Stupid stuff. I went from yelling about it, to glares to now I take deep breaths, change my body language and remind myself that I love my husband way more than I care about the stupid counter. Occasionally I slip but I'm able to stop almost immediately and give my husband a hug, communicate, something to melt my cold exterior. I say all this because the part where she did apologize tells me she's aware of her behavior (thanks to you) and is responding.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Conrad,
> I have simply learned to take a deep breath and accept that, that is how SHE is feeling. And there is nothing for me to do until/unless she elects to express her thoughts in words.


Tonight she expressed herself.

She said, "I hope you die alone"

I said, "thank you".


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Tonight she expressed herself.
> 
> She said, "I hope you die alone"
> 
> I said, "thank you".


It takes a darkened soul to harbor and express thoughts like that.
She has no need to be nice to you now, because she's not getting anything from you anymore.
Some people need a personal incentive in order to be decent. 
Doesn't make it suck any less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Tonight she expressed herself.
> 
> She said, "I hope you die alone"
> 
> I said, "thank you".


I think there’s many a harsh word said when a person’s hurt, wounded and angry. But those words come out at the instant they felt the hurt and got angry.

If those words were spoken not as part of an angry and hurtful dialogue but after a time of calm then they represent something not right deep inside the person.

Bob


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I love her mischievous smile. I love and fear her wicked smile. I just love love love her.


MEM,
Your wife is a very very very blessed woman to have a husband like you.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> ... she says to me in an irritated voice
> 
> ... very contrite
> 
> ...


Is this normal? Honestly this does not sound so much like fitness testing as either
- your wife needs to get a grip on herself/ get over herself or
- you are wicked sensitive


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

You guys are strong. I am nowhere near mature enough not to have a minor explosion during a fitness test.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mom,
Just as she is about to drift off she clearly says "sorry for being such a biitch when you returned from your walk". I didn't "prompt" that. I was in a good mood as we had just spent a happy hour watching tv entwined with her being super nice and me being nice back. 

I imagine she said it because she had "gotten over herself". Sometimes people just need a little time to recognize their emotional reaction is way out of whack with reality or completely unfounded. 

As for me. I am highly "externally" sensitive. Meaning I am very good at reading people. As for being "internally" sensitive - meaning that I easily get upset/very upset - nah. I had a momentary flash of anger, though I didn't "speak" it. And then I went into calm/detached mode. 

Externally sensitive (awareness) is very helpful to me. Internally sensitive is a train wreck for a man. 




Mom6547 said:


> Is this normal? Honestly this does not sound so much like fitness testing as either
> - your wife needs to get a grip on herself/ get over herself or
> - you are wicked sensitive


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Mom,
> Just as she is about to drift off she clearly says "sorry for being such a biitch when you returned from your walk". I didn't "prompt" that. I was in a good mood as we had just spent a happy hour watching tv entwined with her being super nice and me being nice back.
> 
> I imagine she said it because she had "gotten over herself". Sometimes people just need a little time to recognize their emotional reaction is way out of whack with reality or completely unfounded.


The whole THING just seems weird to me. Do normal people have to examine every little interaction this way? Do normal people go from hot to cold to hot over basically nothing on an hour by hour basis?

I can see having to examine things closely when things are going poorly to get them back on track. But it must be exhausting to have to think so hard about your relationship hour by hour like this.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Some people do think about their relationship hour-by-hour and yes, it is exhausting.

But it usually happens when things are not right with their world, they then do a piece-by-piece breakdown of everything that happened trying to make sense of it all.

And yes, it's exhausting.

It's one of the things I do and have backed off of to some degree. I need to back off more and am working on it.

But baby steps - all I can deal with right now.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> The whole THING just seems weird to me. Do normal people have to examine every little interaction this way? Do normal people go from hot to cold to hot over basically nothing on an hour by hour basis?
> 
> I can see having to examine things closely when things are going poorly to get them back on track. But it must be exhausting to have to think so hard about your relationship hour by hour like this.


I hope there is an end to this. I'm in the process of a major marriage overhaul so I'm having to examine every little interaction but if I had to do this forever I'd never get anything else done. I'm already exhausted from doing this the past 2 months. At some point it has to stop.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Many husbands claim to be on the receiving end of this type stuff. I get a lot of posts and PM's from them. Very few of them are well equipped to handle these situations. I post about this stuff because early in my marriage I handled it in a direct, mostly verbal manner with consistently BAD results. 

This approach works really well for me/us. As to "why" my W is somewhat volatile and tends to push boundaries - she seems wired that way. Based on the males posting on this board she is not as unusual as you might think. 

This whole dynamic - when the male responds as if he is dealing with ANOTHER MALE is a train wreck. So I give examples in the spirit of being helpful. As for me, this incident is like most that I write about. It took a minimal amount of thought/emotional energy to resolve. A couple minutes and no real change in blood pressure. 

I put some effort into describing it because there seems to be a large audience who are dealing with this behavior pattern the way I "used to". My guess, their marriages are much the worse for it. 

As for the results. I am "in love" with my W and she with me. We are 22 years into it. Statistically "that" in love thing lasting 22 years is also "weird". FWIW - "weird" has a negative connotation. "Unusual or atypical" are more neutral terms. 

Don't sweat it though, I am calibrated to your blunt, somewhat caustic delivery style and don't take it personally. 



Mom6547 said:


> The whole THING just seems weird to me. Do normal people have to examine every little interaction this way? Do normal people go from hot to cold to hot over basically nothing on an hour by hour basis?
> 
> I can see having to examine things closely when things are going poorly to get them back on track. But it must be exhausting to have to think so hard about your relationship hour by hour like this.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Many husbands claim to be on the receiving end of this type stuff. I get a lot of posts and PM's from them. Very few of them are well equipped to handle these situations. I post about this stuff because early in my marriage I handled it in a direct, mostly verbal manner with consistently BAD results.
> 
> This approach works really well for me/us. As to "why" my W is somewhat volatile and tends to push boundaries - she seems wired that way. Based on the males posting on this board she is not as unusual as you might think.
> 
> This whole dynamic - when the male responds as if he is dealing with ANOTHER MALE is a train wreck.


I almost wrote in the Ladies Lounge how I feel like I live on a different planet than everyone else. This proves it. I suspect you are right. But I also suspect that my husband giving me the honorary man award is not too far off. If I had to be "handled" in that manner, I would be embarrassed.



> So I give examples in the spirit of being helpful. As for me, this incident is like most that I write about. It took a minimal amount of thought/emotional energy to resolve. A couple minutes and no real change in blood pressure.


So you don't think actively about it for your own sake so much as give examples to others to benefit from the experience? That's cool.




> I put some effort into describing it because there seems to be a large audience who are dealing with this behavior pattern the way I "used to". My guess, their marriages are much the worse for it.
> 
> As for the results. I am "in love" with my W and she with me. We are 22 years into it. Statistically "that" in love thing lasting 22 years is also "weird". FWIW - "weird" has a negative connotation. "Unusual or atypical" are more neutral terms.
> 
> Don't sweat it though, I am calibrated to your blunt, somewhat caustic delivery style and don't take it personally.


Caustic??! Caustic??!!?!? I am deeply hurt.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sinnister said:


> You guys are strong. I am nowhere near mature enough not to have a minor explosion during a fitness test.


Have you been to therapy?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Caustic??! Caustic??!!?!? I am deeply hurt.


Don't be so sensitive


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Don't be so sensitive


Sar CHASM. The gap between my humor and what Conrad got! You DID realize I was being silly?


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

It's funny Mem, regarding your comment of "if you react is if she is male".

I never really thought of it like that. But that is/was EXACTLY the problem I was facing without realizing it. I would go alpha and bump back twice as hard and immediately as I would if a male challenged me in the same way - which in turn got her defenses up and things would snowball.

A lot of her "bad behaviour" was a result of my "bad behaviour". Once I made a point of reacting to things differently results started to occur. In fact combining a gentle teasing, or humerously making fun of her when whe is being unreasonable is FAR more effective than getting angry and adding to the situation. 

But I never, until now put 2 and 2 together and realized my original responses were how I would respond to a male.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Sar CHASM. The gap between my humor and what Conrad got! You DID realize I was being silly?


Of course I did.

It was a fitness test.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mom,
You are more similar to my W than you realize. She also is highly self aware AND has a sense of humor about herself. And ummm - yep she is blunt and at times caustic. 

The thing is that her aggressiveness combined with a great sense of humor is a BIG part of what creates passion for us. Mostly the aggression is expressed in a playful or lightly edgy manner and that is really fun. For her a "perfect" day is:
- Sparring with me in a humorous manner and
- Sparring with me physically - wrestling - some mild MMA style fighting on the bed 
- Banging each other senseless and not in a "gentle" way
- Lying in bed entwined afterwards and being soft/gentle/nice 

So 3 parts spice, one part sugar. 




Mom6547 said:


> I almost wrote in the Ladies Lounge how I feel like I live on a different planet than everyone else. This proves it. I suspect you are right. But I also suspect that my husband giving me the honorary man award is not too far off. If I had to be "handled" in that manner, I would be embarrassed.
> 
> 
> So you don't think actively about it for your own sake so much as give examples to others to benefit from the experience? That's cool.
> ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Of course I did.
> 
> It was a fitness test.


What was? Whom was I testing? I doubt MEM ever even replies. Can one look so hard for fitness tests that they seem them all over the place? (I remember reading a book in the bad old days about the various ways men disrespect their wives. You can bet everywhere I looked I saw it.) When is a humorous remark not just a humorous remark? When a woman makes it?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LMAO - glad it has helped. 



eagleclaw said:


> It's funny Mem, regarding your comment of "if you react is if she is male".
> 
> I never really thought of it like that. But that is/was EXACTLY the problem I was facing without realizing it. I would go alpha and bump back twice as hard and immediately as I would if a male challenged me in the same way - which in turn got her defenses up and things would snowball.
> 
> ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Mom,
> You are more similar to my W than you realize. She also is highly self aware AND has a sense of humor about herself. And ummm - yep she is blunt and at times caustic.


What is interesting is that neither my husband nor I would categorize me as caustic. Too the point, yes. But then in a medium such as this, tone is often lost.



> The thing is that her aggressiveness combined with a great sense of humor is a BIG part of what creates passion for us. Mostly the aggression is expressed in a playful or lightly edgy manner and that is really fun. For her a "perfect" day is:
> - Sparring with me in a humorous manner and
> - Sparring with me physically - wrestling - some mild MMA style fighting on the bed
> - Banging each other senseless and not in a "gentle" way
> ...


I would call us playful but not particularly edgy.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mom,

I know there are "boundaries" on forums such as these, and I hope I don't get banned for disclosing this.

There are a number of males here who would simply love to take you out drinking.

Might be the funniest night of our lives.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Mom,
> 
> I know there are "boundaries" on forums such as these, and I hope I don't get banned for disclosing this.
> 
> ...


I know I just got completely slammed. But I don't even know how. I guess my PolyAnna is strong this evening.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Wait.... you just called me a ho'? I never have been able to understand you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

No no no no. I realize Conrad was being ambiguous but he is a gentleman. He would NOT call you that. And his wording does not imply it. 



Mom6547 said:


> Wait.... you just called me a ho'? I never have been able to understand you.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> No no no no. I realize Conrad was being ambiguous but he is a gentleman. He would NOT call you that. And his wording does not imply it.


I did not really mean that he did! Geez my humor is a big swing and a miss tonight! But I am being dense and don't understand what he IS saying!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sorry I missed the humor. Actually I don't understand it either. 



Mom6547 said:


> I did not really mean that he did! Geez my humor is a big swing and a miss tonight! But I am being dense and don't understand what he IS saying!


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> What was? Whom was I testing? I doubt MEM ever even replies. Can one look so hard for fitness tests that they seem them all over the place? (I remember reading a book in the bad old days about the various ways men disrespect their wives. You can bet everywhere I looked I saw it.) When is a humorous remark not just a humorous remark? When a woman makes it?


That would be my .02 too........it's like a girl I work with she reads Ebony, Stregth in Color, NAACP, JET.....etc she is so into her "culture" she can't help but come off as racist and extremely judgemental.

Bend don't break have fun don't overanalyze everything it's life, have fun, take risks, love with everything.....cliche's I know, but I can't imagine putting everything under a microscope.

MEM, I'm not saying this is a example of that you seem to have a great relationship with your wife!!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I just know what works for us. Clearly what you do works for you.


=OhGeesh;326466]That would be my .02 too........it's like a girl I work with she reads Ebony, Stregth in Color, NAACP, JET.....etc she is so into her "culture" she can't help but come off as racist and extremely judgemental.

Bend don't break have fun don't overanalyze everything it's life, have fun, take risks, love with everything.....cliche's I know, but I can't imagine putting everything under a microscope.

MEM, I'm not saying this is a example of that you seem to have a great relationship with your wife!![/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

eagleclaw said:


> But I never, until now put 2 and 2 together and realized my original responses were how I would respond to a male.


Congratulations.

When the man gets this seemingly simple point, his entire sexual life becomes of infinite potential.

Approach sexual conflict (fitness tests, flirting, etc.) never from a position of "I have to prove myself", but instead from the attitude of "Since I have nothing to prove, I've already won, so I'll have fun with this".

And truly, TRULY, have fun with it!

Your woman, she will LOVE you for it.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Sorry I missed the humor. Actually I don't understand it either.


Mine or his? I was making reference to some men's baser nature... take a woman out to drink to get her lubricated. But I was joking that CONRAD meant that. 

I still don't know what Conrad DID mean.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> Mine or his? I was making reference to some men's baser nature... take a woman out to drink to get her lubricated. But I was joking that CONRAD meant that.
> 
> I still don't know what Conrad DID mean.


I thought it was meant as a compliment. Men like you and would love to go out with you. You have amazing insights and people (myself included) like reading your posts. You sound like you'd be a blast to go out with that's all.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Mine or his? I was making reference to some men's baser nature... take a woman out to drink to get her lubricated. But I was joking that CONRAD meant that.
> 
> I still don't know what Conrad DID mean.


Nobody ever understands Conrad. He's like a clitoris.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Nobody ever understands Conrad. He's like a clitoris.


You don't understand the clitoris? Put your tongue on it. Repeat. Simple.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> I thought it was meant as a compliment. Men like you and would love to go out with you. You have amazing insights and people (myself included) like reading your posts. You sound like you'd be a blast to go out with that's all.


Whatever it was, I am sure it is all good. So Conrad, if you did not mean it to be good, let me know cuz I missed it!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> I thought it was meant as a compliment. Men like you and would love to go out with you. You have amazing insights and people (myself included) like reading your posts. You sound like you'd be a blast to go out with that's all.


I thought that meaning was very clear.

Thanks Magnolia.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Conrad said:


> I thought that meaning was very clear.
> 
> Thanks Magnolia.


The meaning's clear alright. Conrad has a thing for Mom. It's all fun and games and a night out drinking but goes horribly wrong when Conrad mistakingly takes Ambien instead of Viagra.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The meaning's clear alright. Conrad has a thing for Mom. It's all fun and games and a night out drinking but goes horribly wrong when Conrad mistakingly takes Ambien instead of Viagra.


Pharmacists don't make those kind of mistakes.

The tablets are far too different to be confused.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The meaning's clear alright. Conrad has a thing for Mom. It's all fun and games and a night out drinking but goes horribly wrong when Conrad mistakingly takes Ambien instead of Viagra.


I thought Conrad disliked me intensely! Who knew. I dig Conrad too. But alas I am a faithful wife.


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

BigBadWolf said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> When the man gets this seemingly simple point, his entire sexual life becomes of infinite potential.
> 
> ...


To have fun with fitness tests, that sounds difficult. Through the help of the good people of this forum, and Athol's book, I realized that I must not react to them with anger. But to have fun with them, will take time and practice.



Mom6547 said:


> You don't understand the clitoris? Put your tongue on it. Repeat. Simple.


Now THAT I can have fun with!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The tests themselves have a "pattern" to them. Once you understand the pattern you will be able to construct a set of "types" of responses. This is a learned skill that you gradually get better and better at. 






Duke said:


> To have fun with fitness tests, that sounds difficult. Through the help of the good people of this forum, and Athol's book, I realized that I must not react to them with anger. But to have fun with them, will take time and practice.
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT I can have fun with!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> And truly, TRULY, have fun with it!


Aye, otherwise you will get bored like me from time to time and compile reasons to set your marriage on self-destruct attempting to nuke it only to save it at the last minute for some fun...

But that's just me... meh, pretty bored right now. In my marriage I have to learn to cherish the peace at times. Or perhaps I just need a new job instead of routine grinding in the same place for the last few years.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> The tests themselves have a "pattern" to them. Once you understand the pattern you will be able to construct a set of "types" of responses. This is a learned skill that you gradually get better and better at.


People think love is enough. Anything plus skill is always better.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> The tests themselves have a "pattern" to them. Once you understand the pattern you will be able to construct a set of "types" of responses. This is a learned skill that you gradually get better and better at.


I like this. I'm fascinated by patterns and it makes sense to apply that to fitness tests. I'm in the hard phase because I don't get this. I'm also somewhat living in fantasy land where I think why can't I just get my husband to be more direct. Yeah that's not likely to happen anytime soon.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> People think love is enough. Anything plus skill is always better.


Love is never enough. Now why nobody ever tells you that BEFORE you get married remains a mystery.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Love is never enough. Now why nobody ever tells you that BEFORE you get married remains a mystery.


I knew. That was one good thing that my folks did well. We all understood that marriage was not a fairy tale. Seven children, 6 married only 1 divorce. I think parents have a lot to do with marital comprehension.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Love in marriage*

I really think it all starts with commitment. And not "commitment" to staying married. Commitment to being a great partner. I really think that is the single biggest reason our marriage works so well. The commitment is strong for both of us. The "skill" at being good with each other is a side effect of being committed and paying attention. 



Mom6547 said:


> People think love is enough. Anything plus skill is always better.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

*Re: Love in marriage*



MEM11363 said:


> I really think it all starts with commitment. And not "commitment" to staying married. Commitment to being a great partner. I really think that is the single biggest reason our marriage works so well. The commitment is strong for both of us. The "skill" at being good with each other is a side effect of being committed and paying attention.


Yes. The commitment is the motivation to acquire the skill.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Pharmacists don't make those kind of mistakes.
> 
> The tablets are far too different to be confused.


Yes, but when you are wearing a lampshade........


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> I knew. That was one good thing that my folks did well. We all understood that marriage was not a fairy tale. Seven children, 6 married only 1 divorce. I think parents have a lot to do with marital comprehension.


I didn't know and neither did my husband despite both our parents still being married today. Committment alone also does not equal a good marriage either. Well I guess it depends on what you are committing to. Both ours just committed to staying together neither did any work to fix what was wrong. They just harbored resentment, argued a lot and what that didn't fix drugs and alcohol did.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lmao. Different model here.
Hers: if I'm not happy you WILL be miserable
Mine: if I'm not happy you will have frostbite! 

Magnoliagal;326926]I didn't know and neither did my husband despite both our parents still being married today. Committment alone also does not equal a good marriage either. Well I guess it depends on what you are committing to. Both ours just committed to staying together neither did any work to fix what was wrong. They just harbored resentment, argued a lot and what that didn't fix drugs and alcohol did.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Lmao. Different model here.
> Hers: if I'm not happy you WILL be miserable
> Mine: if I'm not happy you will have frostbite!


But you get it. Not all men do. In my world its

Hers: If I'm not happy you WILL be miserable
His: If I'm not happy you will hear crickets chirping


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> But you get it. Not all men do. In my world its
> 
> Hers: If I'm not happy you WILL be miserable
> His: I'm I'm not happy you will hear crickets chirping


I know this isn't supposed to be funny, but I just burst out laughing so hard because I can so relate! 

Crickets chirping indeed...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

In my own personal reflection pool, a few things come to light.

The "true" meaning of the word "committed" partner.

It's someone who has your back.

If something minor (or major) bothers you, they take you seriously enough to address it.

This is my second marriage.

I've had a low conflict spouse who didn't have enough energy or organizational savvy to address issues with us. And, I was the classic conflict avoidant reassuring "strong" man.

This time, I have a high conflict spouse - quite similar to MEM's in style and tone.

In our romance? She was so into that aspect of the relationship that she did many things she'd never done for anyone else before in her life. In fact, quite often it was she pushing the envelope for new and improved erotic experience.

In our marriage? Always a legalistic reason for any double standards. Lack of transparency. Lack of consideration. Putting the kids first meant they were more important than us. And, by "more important", I mean specifically that indulging their every desire was the most important mission we had.

And - by "kids" - I mean her kids. She was the one who encouraged consequences for my daughter when she went off the reservation. I'm eternally grateful for that wise consultation.

I just wish the physician could heal herself.




magnoliagal said:


> I didn't know and neither did my husband despite both our parents still being married today. Committment alone also does not equal a good marriage either. Well I guess it depends on what you are committing to. Both ours just committed to staying together neither did any work to fix what was wrong. They just harbored resentment, argued a lot and what that didn't fix drugs and alcohol did.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MGirl said:


> I know this isn't supposed to be funny, but I just burst out laughing so hard because I can so relate!
> 
> Crickets chirping indeed...


You are probably the only person on here that will get that joke. And hey I still think it's funny. It's either laugh about it or bang your head up against the nearest wall right?


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> You are probably the only person on here that will get that joke. And hey I still think it's funny. It's either laugh about it or bang your head up against the nearest wall right?


Word.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I don't do exams. Sorry, you want lab rats, room 501-F


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