# What should I do?



## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

*UPDATE:What should I do? (See my reply)*

About me: been together with H for 8 years now. We've had several ongoing issues from early on. Sometimes feel like I'm with him only for the sake of our 2 kids. The biggest issue I have with him is his parents. Especially his mom. She is extremely interfering to the point of controlling how we live. She has boundary issues and drives me nuts.(for example, she would make comments like my infant was starving until he started solids because My breast milk was not sufficient for him 'poor guy,he must be so hungry!') I used to silently put up with her until I could take no more and stood up for myself. I put my foot down and said that they need to maintain distance. (Unfortunately they live close and are around a lot) I made it clear that him and his parents can spend as much time as they wanted with each other but 
I do not want to be involved-fair enough I thought, but big mistake. They made my life a living hell after this and my second pregnancy (which happened amidst this drama) was full of misery brought on by these people. 
Things improved a little bit with time, and life was somewhat smooth sailing with a few bumps here and there 
- the biggest fights we have had so far are about this issue. 
There have been many, many incidents caused by these people which have left me hurt and scarred but I will skip them and come to the current issue.
A few months ago , we booked our vacation (in a nearby beach town) upon my insistence to spend some time as a family (we never do much together) and he asked me if he could invite his parents to which I said no. He agreed and booked a small house with one room for the four of us. However after a week, so,etching happened (which I am not aware of) and he said the booking fell through. So now, he booked another house which was bigger with 2 rooms, 2 baths etc. he said there is no reason why he is booking a bigger house, just found a nice one.
Now with a week to go, his mother spent the last few days here. He told me that he asked his parents to join us. I was so angry but decided to hold off on reacting because I did not want a scene in front of the mom. We had a huge fight after she left and he called me names. He later apologized profusely and explained that they are not interested in going with us anyway. 
Now 2 days later he tells me they have confirmed that they will go with us. My blood is boiling and I told him that I am not going on this vacation. The best part is he was shocked at that! And kept asking me why . I refused to open up because I know how it ends whenever I am honest with him. He kept pressing and telling me to be straightforward and nothing will offend him. So I opened up a little and told him respectfully that what he did was wrong- to have invited his parents without as much as consulting me. As soon as I said that he blew up and threatened me with divorce. So much for wanting honesty? And now he is not talking with me.
What should I do? Should I swallow my pride and accept the reality and just go? Or stick to what I said to make him realize that I won't be ok with being taken for granted anymore? I was really looking forward to this vacation as he never takes us anywhere.this summer has been hard and the one thing I was looking forward to has been ruined


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

Ideally, yes. This is not even the first time he has done that. I have thought about it so many times. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Kids are involved - he is a good father to them. Pulls his own weight and also lends a hand with the house. Hands on as a dad - has a huge superiority complex because of that. Keeps mentioning that he does a lot of work (which is true) and that other dads don't do **** (not necessarily true) 
I am financially dependent on him, but I know I can get a job if needed. But I will have nowhere to go! Until I get my own place.
I am afraid of starting over. I am afraid of being a single mom. Afraid of never finding love again
I wish I had the courage to walk out


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's time to call his bluff. He should be standing up for you with his family. Had he done that years ago, a lot of the problems you have with your in laws would never have happened. Instead he's allowed them to bully you.

Do you have a job? If you do have a job, what percentage of your joint income do you earn? Or are you completely financially dependent on him? I ask because the answer to this might make a difference on how you approach this.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Do what works for YOU. Don't worry about what he thinks, or what his mom might or might not do. 

Bring some books, let his parents watch the kids and get some alone time in on the beach..... IF YOU WANT TO. 

If it all just turns your stomach to have to even deal with them. Then don't go. Stay home, look for a job, start thinking about your options.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Girl820 said:


> Ideally, yes. This is not even the first time he has done that. I have thought about it so many times. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Kids are involved - he is a good father to them. Pulls his own weight and also lends a hand with the house. Hands on as a dad - has a huge superiority complex because of that. Keeps mentioning that he does a lot of work (which is true) and that other dads don't do **** (not necessarily true)
> I am financially dependent on him, but I know I can get a job if needed. But I will have nowhere to go! Until I get my own place.
> 
> I am afraid of starting over. I am afraid of being a single mom. Afraid of never finding love again
> ...


Yes there are some dads/men who do not do well as a father and with things around the house. But that's called being a decent person.. until he uses it to bully you. 

If he's a good father now, he should still be a good father after a divorce. Why would that change? The difference would be that he would be doing the fathering when he has the children during his time with them. 

What do you mean that you would have nowhere to go? You are living in a home right now. That's where you would "go". You would stay exactly where you are. He'd have to pay the bills for you and the children until you get a job, etc.

I'm assuming that you are in the USA. If you were to share what state you live in, we could give you some more specific input.

But in general, you could see an attorney and find out how much child support and alimony you will get. You should get at least spousal support and child support until the divorce is final. Then after the divorce child support for sure. And you would probably be able to get rehabilitative spousal support for about half the length of your marriage.

Right now it seems that you are looking at this as though he has you over a barrel. But really he does not. He has as much to lose in a divorce as you do. But because he's the breadwinner, he seems to think that he's got the upper hand. This is why he's pushing you around and allowing his family to push you around.

If there is any chance of fixing this problem in your marriage, you need to stand your ground. Go see a lawyer and find out your legal rights for support, for asset division, child custody, etc.

"Honey, you need to tell your parents that you promised my a vacation for only the 4 of us. We need this time as a family and as a married couple. So please tell your parentst that the invitation for them to join us is withdrawn. If you do not. I will not be going on the vacation. If you want to divorce me over this, then that's your choice to throw away your family."

Then the ball is in his court.

You don't have to move out of your home at this point. Divorces take months, even years to finalize. You can stay where you are.

But he is most likely to throw a fit and not file for divorce. You can insist tha the go to marriage counseling with you. You have power in this relationship but for some reason have given it up to him. YOu need to taken back your power. Chances are, there will be no divorce and your marriage will get better.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

How's the rest of the marriage? Is sex frequent and good?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> "Honey, you need to tell your parents that you promised me a vacation for only the 4 of us. We need this time as a family and as a married couple. So please tell your parents that the invitation for them to join us is withdrawn. If you do not. I will not be going on the vacation. If you want to divorce me over this, then that's your choice to throw away your family."
> 
> Then the ball is in his court.


This...

Simply, we choose our marital destiny by the way we treat our spouse. Threatening divorce over such things are nothing but a power play one plays for themselves, and probably an over-involved Mother-in-law. He knows what there would be to lose... there is little doubt he shares too much of your marital conflicts in places it should not be shared looking for support in all the wrong places for all the wrong things.

That there is also what sounds like manipulation and what seems to be deceit is troubling... whether it is his doing out of fear of his parents that causes such a lack of respect for you, or that he believes his mother is exercising her rightful boundary in your marriage needs to be known and clear for you to make the decisions you need to. 

One is sad but understandable considering her forcefulness and with counseling may be able to understand why he lets it happen and that his marriage and his wife are the priority, not his dominant mother. Well led counseling can be a blessing to your marriage here.

The other is a scary insight to the bullying he has grown to learn and use to manipulate those around him to get what he and mentoring mother want. That things could have intentionally happened so subversive and your input and feelings mattered so little leaves little trust to having a civil outcome when divorce is thrown around so flippantly should this be the case.

While this may feel like yet another unpleasant situation of the same making, it is an excellent opportunity for mindful clarity... your marriage needs definition and knowing where one stands often aids the best path to follow... if pride continues to be swallowed, the situation will only become worse as attitudes are emboldened.

One of my favourite guides is "There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it". You know you can't continue to accept it and remain healthy in all that matters to your happiness, what @EleGirl stated so well above is the choice of change presented to him for action... not bluff, no hidden meaning, clearly stated and with the outcome he professed to be worth losing all over, and finally leave it if all else is unacceptable. 

Peace and strength be with you as you stand up for the respect you deserve.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Girl820 said:


> I am financially dependent on him, but I know I can get a job if needed. But I will have nowhere to go! Until I get my own place.
> I am afraid of starting over. I am afraid of being a single mom. Afraid of never finding love again
> I wish I had the courage to walk out


Well, if you prefer to stagnate in fear and find 200 reasons why you can't possibly do anything but *stay* in a crap marriage with a mamma's boy who continually disrespects you, then you'll continue to be miserable. :frown2:

It's really not rocket science.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Here's a question I think you need to get to the bottom of. Did your husband of his own free will invite his parents or was he cohered into inviting them by his moms insistence? Either way he has issues with respecting you and establishing boundaries, but it does make a difference how his parents got included.

If he wanted his parents to come and circumvented your wishes and invited them you will always be second choice to him. His mom will always be the most important woman in his life, you will never measure up to her, and it will frustrate you to no end trying. I'm not sure how you fix that, maybe by proving over and over and over that you are a capable mother and a good wife, but gosh that sounds like an exhausting job to always be under scrutiny. 

If his mom railroaded her way into your vacation than your husband may just be weak willed. This can be fixed, it will be hard for him to learn to set boundaries but it can be done. You may end up being labeled the bad guy (or girl) but so be it, in the end you will have a healthier family if your husband acts like a man/husband/father instead of a mommies boy. He needs to tell his mom he's cutting the cord.

I guess a third thing to consider is how you and your husband get along as a couple. If there's a lot of strife or disconnect in the marriage maybe your husband doesn't want to spend a week with you, maybe he invited his parents as a buffer or a distraction. It's possible he just doesn't enjoy your company enough to want to be on vacation with you, that's a hard truth to swallow but you need to consider it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

From what I can see you are, and have been, the perfect wife.

So, in that light, I think you should continue being the perfect wife and give him *exactly* what he wants! :FIREdevil:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Personal said:


> His being a good father does not make him a good husband.
> 
> Holding your own boundaries and being assertive would also go a long way. Don't want his parents there, tell him you and your children won't be going on this holiday until he prioritises his own family and loses his mummy strings.
> 
> ...


And if he treats their mother poorly he is not a good father, IMO.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP I feel your frustration my friend. My inlaws are what brought me to TAM - my username stands for Frustrated Daughter In Law, lol 

I've had to stop all contact with my in laws - just for me and my sanity. My husband still sees them occasionally, but not very often...his choice (I wouldn't ask him not to see them).

Stand your ground here...tell your husband that he needs to tell his parents this was supposed to be a holiday for just the two of you and your children, and he was wrong to invite them in the first place. If he won't do that, do not go. You and the children stay home. He can go have a good time with mummy and daddy.

While he's away, see a lawyer and find out your rights - you don't have to actually *do* anything...but knowledge is power. Then the next time he pulls the "fine, we'll get a divorce crap" you'll be able to say "Ok, I've seen a lawyer, this is how things will be going forward". Watch him pick his bottom jaw up off the ground.


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

Thank you to everyone who responded! I got some sleep and now feel a little better. 
After reading all the replies, I feel some strength. So if I do walk out of this marriage I can survive. I would love to see an attorney. Does anyone know how much a primary consultation would cost? He has access to all the finances so I would have to figure out a way to do this without making him aware. I am in VA if that matters.
As I mentioned before, this is not the first time he has done this. He does it every now and then. And if I bring up anything from the past, he gets really aggressive and tells me off (to not bring up the past and it's over and things are different now).
Back in the day when the huge showdown with inlaws happened, I found out he was hitting on a woman from his hobby club. I was pregnant at that time, tried to find a job so I could leave him with not much luck. He stopped going to the club after this, but I am certain it was only because I caught him. He offered me some apologies, but I really never felt it. I kept asking him to email that person that he is happily married with a growing family so I could have a closure to this incident, but he never did. Soon The baby came and our attention was diverted to tending to a newborn and a toddler. Life was hard and he told me that he will put efforts into making things right but I'll have to forget the past and move on. I was pressured into never bringing up the past again. I agreed because obviously 
I wanted us to be together as a family. But since then, not much has changed with his treatment of me. He does not cheat anymore (or that is what it looks like and that's what I'd like to believe) but everything else is pretty much the same.when ds was 9 months old, we had a fight and he took the children and left. For his parents house. I had to call his mother and plead her to convince him to come back home and bring my children back. This is a man in his late thirties we are talking about. How am I supposed to forget all this and pretend like nothing has happened?
When we had the conversation yesterday, he coerced me into opening up while promising to be accepting and then used that to threatened me. He even went on to tell me that my memory is fogged and he in fact did ask me to invite his parents! Also everytime I express any concern, he always brushes it off or make it look like I'm making a big deal out of nothing. According to him, anything I feel is an overreaction. I told him this is called gas lighting and then he yelled at me asking if this is all I do, read **** on the Internet. 
According to him I complain too much so I deserve no respect.
I'm sorry to hear you have been through similar things frusdil, I hope life is better for you now that you have cut them out! I can't do the same but I wish I could.
He invited them out of his own will. He told me yesterday that the inlaws don't visit us much (the fact is they are here at least once every month) because I make them feel unwelcome. Fact: they are here every time it is possible! 
He respects his mother. Very much. Too much. Her wish is his command.
When I said his priorities are like this. His parents, the kids and then me. He flatly denied. He said it's the kids and me (his family) and then his parents. And then he said "please don't make me choose. No one should have to choose between their family and their parents. Of course if I had to, I will choose my family but please don't make me do this!" 2 mins later it was "if you don't accept my parents, this marriage is surely going down" . And then it was "my priority definitely kids and you first, you cannot assume otherwise". And then a few sentences later it was "if you don't go on this trip, this marriage will end sooner than it should" I'm having a really hard time making a conclusion here!
Sex is highly infrequent to nothing. I cannot have sex with a man who is tied to his mother's apron strings. But for me it's not a deal breaker, I honestly don't need much sex.


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

I plan to be firm and tell him that neither me nor the kids are going. But I'm expecting
1. Him to forcefully take the kids
2. The kids are very excited about the beach, they may not want to stay with me

In either case there is no way I can let them go without me


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

Girl820 said:


> I plan to be firm and tell him that neither me nor the kids are going. But I'm expecting
> 1. Him to forcefully take the kids
> 2. The kids are very excited about the beach, they may not want to stay with me
> 
> In either case there is no way I can let them go without me


Your husband is a whiny mama's boy. Get legal help now. Until he see's that you have the power to take everything away from him he will not change his attitude. VA legal aid offers free and low cost divorce assistance. You are not breaking up your family. You are giving him a wake up call. If he hit the snooze button then that is his choice.

His mother didn't do a good job educating him. It's time for the belt.


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

I think you should stay home and go see a lawyer to learn about divorce options to shock him into reality or to maybe to get rid of him, but unless you are still breast feeding, why do think YOU get to decide if your kids go to the beach with their Dad at this point? 

Last I heard married people each have 50% control and don't require permission from their spouse to go to the beach or any other place unless it's in a different country.

Good luck!


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Girl820 said:


> Sex is highly infrequent to nothing. I cannot have sex with a man who is tied to his mother's apron strings. But for me it's not a deal breaker, I honestly don't need much sex.


gtfo

Regarding this though, sex isn't just a need, it's a want. If you find yourself leaving this guy, and with someone else, please, evaluate how you view sex and need and focus on want and desire.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Sadly, it is not against the law for him to take your children like that to his mother's nor on vacation... so it is even more critical that a lawyer be consulted. That he controls the finances so tightly is another sign of unhealthy action, but to add that with his wondering eye leaves a sad trail of entitlement and control.

Google "divorce lawyers in Virginia free consultation" and there are a lot of options should you not get your husband to counseling. I would hope counseling would be your parallel option, even if just for yourself... you have a right to quality medical care and your mental health is just as important as any other area, and with the smoke and mirrors abuse and gas-lighting abuse, you will realize the incredible strength you have within yourself.

His final statement "if you don't go on this trip, this marriage will end sooner than it should" tells you where his mind is for your relationship... even if he doesn't mean it for actual divorce, he means it for control.

Disappointing... a spouse leaves their home to build a new one, not bring the rotten timbers with them although it often happens when it's only the good timber we should use with our new partner.

As for your intimacy, please don't discount it's importance in this turmoil... if you can get the help you need and your husband aligns himself correctly to you, it will be present again as such love is critical for self in marriage.


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

I do not think that tO get to decide if he can take the kids and I am only thinking about this because I realize I only have a 50% say in this matter. My worry stems from the previous experience where he took the kids away to his parents house. He would not tell me where he was going. He only said " we are not coming back" I somehow found out that he was en route to his parents house. This time it's the perfect setting. Away from me, with his parents. It will most likely be ok, but It freaks me out. I am not trying to have an upper hand or anything and I will obviously not be holding the kids back.

Thank you to everybody for taking time to give me some advice and insights! I have too many things running through my mind right now and I'm trying to process everything. I will be talking to him in some time to let him know I am not going along, wish me luck. I'll be ok with whatever comes out of it.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Imagine your life 10 years from now. If you're still married to your husband, will you be happy? Will you have regrets? Don't be one of those people that stays in the marriage until the kids turn 18 and then divorce. These are your prime years you're wasting away. 

Divorce was the best thing that happened to me and many others on this site. Being free is a beautiful thing.

I didn't think I needed sex either when I was married. But after I found someone that I actually connected with and loved, sex is the best thing ever.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There is a lot about your legal rights in divorce that you can find out without paying a lawyer. My suggestion is that you do some research and reading before you see an attorney. You will get more out of a consultation if you become informed before you see a lawyer. So how to do this.

There are books for each state that will tell the laws and your rights. 

A quick search on amazon.com for “Virginia divorce” found these two books and a lot more.

Divorce in Virginia: The Legal Process, Your Rights, and What to Expect 

The Guide to Low-Cost Divorce in Virginia

A search on google came up with a lot of info. Here are some of the links. 

Divorce Help for Women with Children in Virginia 

Virginia Legal Aid Society  

Info about divorce in VA

So read, search and read some more. A lot of lawyers write articles about divorce and post them on their websites. So search on particular topics, such as "Virginia child support", "Virginia divorce asset division".


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The more you post about your husband the more it becomes clear that he’s a mean, controlling mommy’s boy. He’s abusive basically.


Girl820 said:


> Thank you to everyone who responded! I got some sleep and now feel a little better.
> After reading all the replies, I feel some strength. So if I do walk out of this marriage I can survive. I would love to see an attorney. Does anyone know how much a primary consultation would cost? He has access to all the finances so I would have to figure out a way to do this without making him aware. I am in VA if that matters.


As someone else said, some attorneys will give free first consolations. Do the reading that I suggest in a post above this one. Then put together a list of questions. Search for attorneys in your area that give free consultations. Make appointments with at least 3 of them and go talk to them. If you are well informed before you go to the appointments, you can interview each of them to see how they would handle your situation. One of the main questions you need to ask each of them is if they can file an order with the court asking that the court order your husband to pay your legal fees. 

As I said above, your husband is abusive. You need to get in touch with an organization in your area that deals with victims of abuse. For one thing you are clearly very beat down emotionally and you need counseling to help you realize that you don’t need to live like this and that you have rights in your marriage and in divorce. Another benefit of going to a domestic abuse center is that they often have a list of attorneys who will not charge you (pro-bono) for the divorce should they take your case. If your husband has an income and there are assets in the marriage, they will file an order with the court for your husband to pay your legal fees out of marital assets and income. 


Girl820 said:


> He has access to all the finances so I would have to figure out a way to do this without making him aware.


This is a kind of emotional abuse… it’s called “financial abuse”. By law you have the right to have access to the income and assets. What’s he’s doing is a very serious and mean spirited form of control. By him controlling the finances to this extent he’s keeping control of you, allowing him to have the upper hand and to abuse you further. Again, you need to go to a domestic abuse organization and get counseling.

Do you do the grocery shopping? How much money does he allow you to have access to and how? I mean do you have access to a joint account? Do you have credit cards? 


Girl820 said:


> As I mentioned before, this is not the first time he has done this. He does it every now and then. And if I bring up anything from the past, he gets really aggressive and tells me off (to not bring up the past and it's over and things are different now).


This is another form of emotional abuse. The point of emotional abuse is to keep you (his victim) in an unstable situation. This gives him a lot of control over you. Abuse is always about control.


Girl820 said:


> Back in the day when the huge showdown with inlaws happened, I found out he was hitting on a woman from his hobby club. I was pregnant at that time, tried to find a job so I could leave him with not much luck. He stopped going to the club after this, but I am certain it was only because I caught him. He offered me some apologies, but I really never felt it. I kept asking him to email that person that he is happily married with a growing family so I could have a closure to this incident, but he never did. Soon The baby came and our attention was diverted to tending to a newborn and a toddler. Life was hard and he told me that he will put efforts into making things right but I'll have to forget the past and move on. I was pressured into never bringing up the past again. I agreed because obviously


How often does he go out with you? Does he have a password on his cell phone? 



Girl820 said:


> I wanted us to be together as a family. But since then, not much has changed with his treatment of me. He does not cheat anymore (or that is what it looks like and that's what I’d like to believe) but everything else is pretty much the same.when ds was 9 months old, we had a fight and he took the children and left. For his parents house. I had to call his mother and plead her to convince him to come back home and bring my children back. This is a man in his late thirties we are talking about. How am I supposed to forget all this and pretend like nothing has happened?


You are not supposed to forget it since he’s not doing anything to fix his contribution to the martial problems. You do need to know your rights since he pulls stuff like this. 


Girl820 said:


> When we had the conversation yesterday, he coerced me into opening up while promising to be accepting and then used that to threatened me. He even went on to tell me that my memory is fogged and he in fact did ask me to invite his parents! Also everytime I express any concern, he always brushes it off or make it look like I'm making a big deal out of nothing. According to him, anything I feel is an overreaction. I told him this is called gas lighting and then he yelled at me asking if this is all I do, read **** on the Internet.


Look at the link in my signature block below for the 180. Start interacting with him according to the 180. Do not discuss this stuff with him because clearly he’s only using discussions as a way to go after you verbally.


Girl820 said:


> According to him I complain too much so I deserve no respect.


Well ain’t he a peach. He thinks that he has all the power in the marriage and can push you around emotionally. 


Girl820 said:


> He invited them out of his own will. He told me yesterday that the inlaws don't visit us much (the fact is they are here at least once every month) because I make them feel unwelcome. Fact: they are here every time it is possible!
> 
> He respects his mother. Very much. Too much. Her wish is his command.


It’s good for a man to respect his mother. But what he’s doing goes beyond respect. He puts her above you. That’s not acceptable in marriage.


Girl820 said:


> When I said his priorities are like this. His parents, the kids and then me. He flatly denied. He said it's the kids and me (his family) and then his parents. And then he said "please don't make me choose. No one should have to choose between their family and their parents. Of course if I had to, I will choose my family but please don't make me do this!" 2 mins later it was "if you don't accept my parents, this marriage is surely going down" . And then it was "my priority definitely kids and you first, you cannot assume otherwise". And then a few sentences later it was *"if you don't go on this trip, this marriage will end sooner than it should"* I'm having a really hard time making a conclusion here!


I interpret that as him saying that he plans on divorcing you once the children are all 18. What’s when he thinks the marriage ‘should’ end. 


Girl820 said:


> Sex is highly infrequent to nothing. I cannot have sex with a man who is tied to his mother's apron strings. But for me it's not a deal breaker, I honestly don't need much sex.


Well it sounds like neither of you are happy in this marriage. It is time to take a stand and let him know that you are willing to give him what he wants.. a divorce. Only you have as much right to decide when it ends as he does.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does your husband ever do things like break objects in the house, bang on walls, furniture, etc when he's angry?

Does he ever put his hands on you, shoving you, twisting your arm, pushing you around, hitting you?

Does he ever raise his hand or fist at you but not hit you with it, just threaten?

Is there any of that kind of behavior going on?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When is this vacation supposed to happen? What are the dates?

I can see two possible ways of handling the vacation.

You need time to get things together to file for divorce.

So you could not go with him on this vacation and use that time as a blitz to get your exit plan in place, see attorneys, etc. And use the time between now and the vacation to lay down the ground work.

The other way to do this is to go ahead on the vacation, spend some good time with your children on the beach. And again use the time between now and the vacation to lay down the ground work... but interview attorney's, etc. as well during that time.

In either case, once he and the children are back in your home, have him served with divorce papers.

Because of the way you describe his behavior, I would be tempted to go on the vacation. Why? Because if you do not go, you are creating a huge crisis in your marriage. He's a volatile and emotionally abusive person. I could see him take your children on the vacation but when he returns go to his mother's with the children.

If he does that, a complexity is added to the divorce in that you have to go to court to ask that the court return your children to your home.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I thought the same as you when my kids were little. It took being punched in the face and cheated on multiple times and never having enough money for diapers before I FINALLY pulled the plug. I packed up my 4 month old, 2 year old and 4 year old and walked out with nothing - had to go on welfare. Today, 21 years later, exH is dead, I am happily married, the kids are grown and well adjusted, I have an awesome grandson, take frequent vacations with hubby, have a beautiful house and yard, and just basically enjoy my life  There have been a LOT of ups and downs along the way, exH just dropped out of the picture completely which ended up being a very good thing. I was also convinced that he was SUCH a good father. He wasn't a mommas boy, but he was a lot of other things.

PLEASE start thinking as a single mom. It's very hard - there's no two ways about THAT. And as far as 'finding love' again?? Let IT find YOU. Quit seeking it out so hard - it isn't the be all and end all of existence. You need to CHOOSE to be with someone - be with them because you WANT to be with them, truly and fundamentally. You need to really know that they're a GOOD person and that their values coincide with yours, that what they do for fun is what you want to do for fun, that type of thing. You do NOT want to be with someone just because it's comfortable, or you depend on them, or it's just what you know and you're scared of change. Being with someone should ENHANCE your life, not make it miserable!!


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

I do have credit cards which I use. But he has access to information on spending. I do shop. Groceries and other little things. We are blessed to have a comfortable income for our family but he is quite tight about spending. Which is ok with me because we are saving for college. But it bothers me that I am accountable for every dollar I spend. And he makes me feel really bad about spending money, sometimes even on groceries. He does not say anything, but he uses passive aggressive ways. Example, if he spots anything new at home, (mostly an item that we need) the first thing he asks is how much did you pay for this. And when I tell him, he first gasps like it was too much. And then he digs for the receipt and stares at it. I'm not sure why he does that, but it could be to make sure I am telling the truth/ to keep an account of our expenditure/ to make sure I was not billed wrongly. I must add that I am a very frugal person.i do not spend on anything we don't need and spend very little on myself. I wear the same old clothes, shoes etc, own nothing fancy and purchase the cheapest clothes from clearance (under $10) when I do. We don't watch movies/spend on entertainment. We eat dinner out once a week and it is usually at a local takeout which is pretty inexpensive.we take one vacation a year. I have told him multiple times that the way he scrutinizes my spending hurts me and he says he doesn't know how to tone it right, but he only wants to keep track of our spending. But he does this every. Single. Time. I do not want to give it too much thought because I don't contribute financially and I know he works very hard to provide us with comforts.

Regarding physical abuse, no. He has NEVER ever hit/hurt me or even threatened to hurt me physically. No physical abuse in this marriage which makes me want to fight for it without throwing it away. 

No he does not break anything when he is angry. He does not show any physical aggression at all. He is usually very calm and collected. Is very patient. But when anything is said about his parents, he has some really hurtful things to say to me.

He is a good guy, has many good qualities but I think I have given him too much power to hurt me when he wants.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Girl820 said:


> He is a good guy, has many good qualities but I think I have given him too much power to hurt me when he wants.


Time to show him the equal you are...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you want to try to fix this, you need to let him know that you are very serious about leaving the marriage. And be careful, he already told you that he plans to end the marriage when he's ready to. (see your previous post that I responded to above). He might very well promise you all kinds of things to just keep you around while he's planning to leave once the kids are older and he won't have to pay any child support.

So once you have your ducks in a row with knowing what your rights are in your marriage and what your rights are in divorce, you need to sit him down and tell him that this is it. Either he works with you to make permant changes or you are filing for divorce. But do not make a divorce threat without knowing exactly when and what you are going to file. And don't make it if you intend to stay with the status quo. You need to mean it when you say that you will leave the marriage if does not work with you.

Before you do this, get a counselor at a place that gives help to victims of domestic abuse. While your husband is not physically abusing you, he is emotionally abusing you. So you need help with what to do to change things if at all possible.

Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them and work throught the things they say to work though. This will help you outline what your needs are in the marriage and what needs to change. Then, when you have that big talk with him, part of what he needs to do is to read those books with you and do the work that they prescribe together.

If he's not willing to go to counseling, read the books and do the work, and change how you two handle finances, and put you before his mother your marriage will not work out. He'll just string you along until he's ready to leave on his terms.

I also suggest that you either get a job now or, if you don't have job skills you go back to school and get some. Become more independent because that will help you feel stronger in the marriage and it will let him know that you are willing to do what it takes to leave if you have to.

Also, I have a suggestion for fixing some of the financial situation. There are some good books out there.. one is "Smart Couples Finish Rich". I suggest that you read it. Then get him to read it. You both need to be involved in the financial planning and management. 

You also need some money that you can spend without being treated the way he treats you. So the way to do that is that all money goes into a joint account on payday. 10% (or more) is put right into savings. Then all bills are paid. Money is put aside for groceries, things for the kids, etc. Then whatever is left over is split 50/50. Each of you gets 50% of the discresionary income. You can each spend it as you please. And the other cannot ask about the spending. It's your money... just as he gets an equal share to spend.

Is your name on any savings accounts, investments, etc?


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi Girl820,

Here's my take on the situation. 

All of the issues you are experiencing in your marriage stem from ONE thing - your inability as a couple to engage in selfless discussion and care-taking of each other.

Now, your point of view sounds like your husband has a lot to answer to in this respect, but of course your side of the story is exactly that- one sided. Take some time and consider exactly how much time and effort you put into REALLY LISTENING TO HIM and how you act selflessly toward him in reaction. 

Personally I think your marriage will be over soon if you don't address this issue. 

Try to calmly explain the situation to your husband. Say that you want to try to work on your communication and suggest counselling and make it clear that you think your marriage won't be able to last if you both don't come together and care for and listen to each other. A man who cares for you will agree. 

IMPORTANT: Details about what makes you angry are not important. Try to avoid arguing about details and avoid specific examples during counselling. That will only re-trigger previous emotion and will in fact de-rail the conversation that needs to be had. Why you appear to be unable to hear and care for each other.

And if he won't listen, won't go to counselling and argues his point, you need to issue D papers. Do it for yourself. It might snap him out of it also, but don't do it for that reason. Issue papers on your decision that you can't cope if nothing changes.

Good luck.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Girl820 said:


> But it bothers me that *I am accountable for every dollar I spend*. And he makes me feel really bad about spending money, sometimes even on groceries.
> 
> I must add that I am a very frugal person ... I do not spend on anything we don't need and spend very little on myself. I wear the same old clothes, shoes etc, own nothing fancy and *purchase the cheapest clothes from clearance (under $10) when I do*.
> 
> ...


BINGO!

Read the above; it's the sad story of my life back in 2009. Take back your power. You know, and I know, you don't want to wear clearance crap. No, you don't have to shop at Nordstrom's, but you don't have to shop in a dumpster either.

You are compromising yourself. To begin with, you are trapped in the thinking that you will be living on the streets and eating canned pig snouts. I assume you have been married at least 10 years and are the primary caregiver to your children. Alimony is a thing of the past, for the most part. But spousal support, that will allow you to get some training to have a decent job, is not. As a rule, the court will give you several years to gain skills to support yourself. Hubby will have to pay for that.

Believe me, and I say this from the very bottom of my heart, you CAN have a good life. You will have great joy with less because you will be living true to yourself.

I walked out during the economic disaster of 2009. I had cancer. I had no health insurance, since hubs had drank himself out of another job. I actually lived in a tiny space over a horse barn on a farm in southeast Pennsylvania for almost two years.

But I didn't allow fear to rule my life or the choices I made. I am doing well today, cancer-free after five years, and have the ability to chose my own life's path.

It is possible. I am living proof it can be done. Get an attorney who does pro se work through your county's law association. Get your ducks in a row. Get a part-time job to start. 

When you take the hand you are dealt and play it from strength rather than fear and/or weakness, you WILL come out better for it. Seriously.


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## no name (Aug 4, 2016)

Maybe moving further way is an option? Also why did he feel compelled to invite his parents? Maybe he felt guilty? It seems like control issues, the parents don't want to let their son go and be the husband he is supposed to be, possible your hubby feels guilty. Perhaps therapy with just him and his parents will help. Their relationship needs to be helped so your hubby is free from restraints to be the man he needs to be. Then you can focus on sorting out your relationship as hubby and wife . Not an easy situation to be in. I feel empathy for you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

I don't think you should divorce him just because he threatens you with divorce. Some people have poor anger management skills, they say things they don't mean. You're going to end a marriage because he threatens you but may not even mean it?

I'm thinking there's better ways to handle it. You could start by simply ignoring his threats especially if you know he's not going to follow through. Well you don't know for sure, you can't know but if he's been saying this for quite some time and not acting on it odds are he's just blowing smoke.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Girl820 said:


> Ideally, yes. This is not even the first time he has done that. I have thought about it so many times. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Kids are involved - he is a good father to them. Pulls his own weight and also lends a hand with the house. Hands on as a dad - has a huge superiority complex because of that. Keeps mentioning that he does a lot of work (which is true) and that other dads don't do **** (not necessarily true)
> I am financially dependent on him, but I know I can get a job if needed. But I will have nowhere to go! Until I get my own place.
> I am afraid of starting over. I am afraid of being a single mom. Afraid of never finding love again
> I wish I had the courage to walk out


What you should do is NOT go on the vacation. Send him AND the kids, and let them all enjoy themselves while you spend some time alone, recharge, and learn to care about yourself. so that when he comes back after a week of brainwashing, you can calmly tell him what your new boundaries are: 
No time with his parents unless they can be civil
The instant they say anything passive aggressive, you immediately get up and leave
If it continues, and he can't find his balls, you WILL be divorcing him

My neighbor has been married three times. He's about 60. First wife died, he married a wonderful woman who ended up dying as well. About 5 years ago, he met yet another wonderful woman, and he's been raising her kids, who are now out of the nest and they're retiring. 

There are millions of people out there, ok? You can easily find someone better than him. Half of the marriages out there are blended families these days. I'm not saying you HAVE to leave him, I just want you to realize you have options, so that when you're faced with their BS again, you see that you DON'T have to take it.

Also, start going to the library and read one self help book a month, at least. Start educating yourself on what you're dealing with. The librarian can help you pick some good ones. The more you know, the more power you'll have in the relationship.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Girl820 said:


> In either case there is no way I can let them go without me


Why?


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## kingsman (Aug 6, 2016)

Yes I agree it's your choice not to go but it's not fair to pull your children into your problems.


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> Why?


Because in the past he has taken them away from me and disappeared when he was mad at me. I was blindsided and had no idea where he was. Found out later that he was headed to his parents', I had to then call and beg his mom to send him back because he wouldn't listen to me. This would be the perfect setting and I don't want all that drama in my life


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

kingsman said:


> Yes I agree it's your choice not to go but it's not fair to pull your children into your problems.


Yup, and that is why I am here to.seek advice!


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

Hello tam friends, I am back here with updates.
I ended up going on the trip and it wasn't too bad at all. Everyone got qt with each other and I did my own thing like working out reading etc. we are now back home.
But that does not mean all is ok. 
An incident that happened two days before we left has me shaken.
So because I was ambiguous about going, a lot of the things that needed to be taken care of before leaving were last minute. I had no bathing suit to carry with me and had to purchase one. He said he will come home from work early that day and I should go to the store try some on in peace and make the purchase while he watched the kids. I was very reluctant because I don't like to assign kids' work to him after a busy day at office. He insisted, so I agreed to go. I asked him if it was ok to buy a suit I liked and it was over thirty bucks to which he said yes. So I went to the store and found two bathing suits I liked, one slightly cheaper than the other. They were both on the sale rack and I couldn't tell if the price tag had the pre or post sale price. As my luck would have it, all the price scanners in the store were taken down that day. Same story with a pair of flip flops we needed for ds. So I out all the items in the cart and told the cashier to do a price check. I did not like their prices so I asked her to leave them out. She then out them away, I finished my purchase and rushed for home to relieve husband of child care. As soon as I got home, he dug through the bag as always and started interrogating me on the expenditure- "what is this item for $20 , what is this for $10?"
And then we found out that not only did the cashier took away the price check items, she had also billed me the amounts. This is entirely the cashiers mistake. But my mistake here was I did not pay attention to this at the store, I should have checked the receipt before leaving but I rushed out because it was late. I apologized profusely and promised I will get the money back but he was very angry. I called the store immediately and told them about the mess. They apologized but said they cannot do the refund over phone and I Need to come In. It was 9 pm by now and it was past the kids bedtime. I promised him I will go get the money tomorrow. He was FURIOUS by now and said he is going to the store right now because it's "my ****ing money. You may put it off until tomorrow, because it's not your ****ing money" I was deeply hurt and cried a lot right in front of the kids. This was of course followed by an apology of I shouldn't have yelled at you. He eventually got his money back and the store also refunded the money paid for the bathing suit that I actually bought.

When we were on the trip, he made love to me. It was really painful for me and not enjoyable at all. When I told him that, he just shrugs it off. It does not matter to him at all.
I started to think about what someone told me on this thread, that I should change the way I think about sex. It's true, I really miss being in love and intimate. Not just sex, I miss being feeling loved, I have shamelessly asked him to make me feel loved to which he says of course I love you I just don't show it. It's gotten old and we get nowhere with that conversation. Last night, I asked him if we could just sit together and watch a movie or a tv show after the kids went to bed to which he said yes. But he fell asleep. He apologized in the morning. This afternoon, he took a nap, so I asked him if we could watch tv today instead to which he agreed. But now that the kids are in bed he said 'think I'll just sleep tonight" 
I feel rejected, disappointed and so alone. 
I know I can leave him, but how it affects my children really scares me and I cannot think that any further


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Girl820 said:


> I know I can leave him, but how it affects my children really scares me and I cannot think that any further


That's just a lie people tell themselves when they're too afraid to make the changes necessary for a better life. If you didn't have kids, you'd just be using another excuse to stay.

You sound codependent. He can pretty much degrade you, humiliate you, debase you, embarrass you, devalue you, and you still beg him to love you.

Please read up on codependency.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What you described is 100% a result of your FEAR OF HIS ANGER.

What are you going to do to change that?


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

I think you need to start by getting a job. You will feel a lot less dependent on this man and will grow more of a backbone so to speak.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

He uses the children as a way to control you. How awful is this!? You can no way get any of us to believe that he is a good father, husband, or son (he takes the children to his parents including them in on this situation). 

Do you have any friends or family that can help you? If I were to guess, he has isolated you. Is that correct? Can one of them give you the money for the lawyer consultation? If he drilled you over a bathing suit, just imagine what he's going to do if he finds out about a lawyer. 

Can you clarify what you mean by the sex being painful? Did he intentionally hurt you?


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> That's just a lie people tell themselves when they're too afraid to make the changes necessary for a better life. If you didn't have kids, you'd just be using another excuse to stay.
> 
> You sound codependent. He can pretty much degrade you, humiliate you, debase you, embarrass you, devalue you, and you still beg him to love you.
> 
> Please read up on codependency.


Thank you! Thank you, thank you. I have been n reading up on codependency, I exhibit ALL the textbook signs, except for addiction. No one I know has any alcohol or any other addiction. I did have a childhood that was less than ideal. In my early years my father was into smoking and gambling. My parents have always fought a lot. The atmosphere in my childhood home was always filled with stress and anxiety. I'm not sure if that lead to this? 
But I am SO glad at this discovery. It means there is something I can work on. Something I can control. I hope working on this gives me the courage to leave or to detach myself completely from this guy.


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> What you described is 100% a result of your FEAR OF HIS ANGER.
> 
> What are you going to do to change that?


Nothing, really. I have a temper too, but I do not do anything he needs to fear when I am angry. I just cry. He remains quiet and blindsides me with some really drastic actions. It makes me very anxious.


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> He uses the children as a way to control you. How awful is this!? You can no way get any of us to believe that he is a good father, husband, or son (he takes the children to his parents including them in on this situation).
> 
> Do you have any friends or family that can help you? If I were to guess, he has isolated you. Is that correct? Can one of them give you the money for the lawyer consultation? If he drilled you over a bathing suit, just imagine what he's going to do if he finds out about a lawyer.
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by the sex being painful? Did he intentionally hurt you?


Yes, this was back when ds was exclusively nursing. He took him away from me, I'm not sure what he was planning to do, ds wouldn't even take a bottle! That was probably the rock bottom of my life.

Oh, he is a good son. He is always on his toes for his parents. One text/call from them and he will fly and serve them. As for his parents, trust me, they LOVE the inclusion!! In fact my mil is extremely frustrated that we have now distanced her enough for her to not know every teeny tiny detail of our everyday life. (Because of the blowups that have happened before) she would LOVE to come fight me to death for her son if she could. Her and the fil support him no matter what. He is their only son and the umbilical cord is unfortunately still intact. They follow him everywhere he moves.

My family- loTs and lots of drama happened in the past, I started typing but erased it because it's too much and deserves its own thread. Long story short- he had his mom complain to my extended family (without my knowledge) that I am a bad wife and don't keep their son happy and everybody thinks I am the bad guy. My parents live in a different country and they cannot help me much. 

I have money of my own from my working days. But he has access to the information from that account. 

He did not hurt me intentionally, when he wants it, he just goes right in. He gives me no chance to be ready! With all the disconnect I feel with him and his omnipresent parents, it takes a lot of effort to feel turned on ! I am attracted to him, but I cannot just drop my clothes and get it on when he wants it but he seems to think otherwise and will ignore if I try explaining


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Girl820 said:


> Nothing, really. I have a temper too, but I do not do anything he needs to fear when I am angry. I just cry. He remains quiet and blindsides me with some really drastic actions. It makes me very anxious.


Hon, you don't 'need' to fear him either. That's my point.

I spent 30 years arranging every aspect of my life just to avoid my H's withering glance, sigh, sneer, mean words, or (rare) outright anger. ME. It wasn't him doing it. It was ME setting myself up for that crap. People kept telling me I had nothing to be afraid of, to just do what I wanted or needed to do and stop concerning myself with his reaction. But I was scared! Just like you. It's only been in the last 5 years that I've been able to separate MY stuff from HIS reaction. 

I'm trying to help you see that there is no reason for you to live like this. The worst he could do is physical abuse - and you can walk away if it looks like he's going to try that. Everything else, less bad than that? It's all in your mind. It's your mind saying 'I have to please him...or else.' 

Or else what?

Think about it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

30 signs of emotional abuse.

1. They humiliate you, put you down, or make fun of you in front of other people.

2. They regularly demean or disregard your opinions, ideas, suggestions, or needs.

3. They use sarcasm or “teasing” to put you down or make you feel bad about yourself.

4. They accuse you of being “too sensitive” in order to deflect their abusive remarks.

5. They try to control you and treat you like a child.

6. They correct or chastise you for your behavior.

7. You feel like you need permission to make decisions or go out somewhere.

8. They try to control the finances and how you spend money.

9. They belittle and trivialize you, your accomplishments, or your hopes and dreams.

10. They try to make you feel as though they are always right, and you are wrong.

11. They give you disapproving or contemptuous looks or body language.

12. They regularly point out your flaws, mistakes, or shortcomings.

13. They accuse or blame you of things you know aren’t true.

14. They have an inability to laugh at themselves and can’t tolerate others laughing at them.

15. They are intolerant of any seeming lack of respect.

16. They make excuses for their behavior, try to blame others, and have difficulty apologizing.

17. The repeatedly cross your boundaries and ignore your requests.

18. They blame you for their problems, life difficulties, or unhappiness.

19. They call you names, give you unpleasant labels, or make cutting remarks under their breath.

20. They are emotionally distant or emotionally unavailable most of the time.

21. They resort to pouting or withdrawal to get attention or attain what they want.

22. They don’t show you empathy or compassion.

23. They play the victim and try to deflect blame to you rather than taking personal responsibility.

24. They disengage or use neglect or abandonment to punish or frighten you.

25. They don’t seem to notice or care about your feelings.

26. They view you as an extension of themselves rather than as an individual.

27. They withhold sex as a way to manipulate and control.

28. They share personal information about you with others.

29. They invalidate or deny their emotionally abusive behavior when confronted.

30. They make subtle threats or negative remarks with the intent to frighten or control you.


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