# Thoughts on walkaway spouses.



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So I was elaborating this in another thread but it really hit me of this so I thought I would post this here. I am sure for many people this is kind of a no-brainer however I think this is another one of those things that needs to be said. 

Causing your spouse pain for prolong periods of time will erode their love for you and eventually kill your marriage. Like sands on a beach eventually there will be no love left. You can temporarily put sand back on the beach by doing fun or romantic things, however, unless you stop doing the things that cause pain there will come a point where there is no love left. Yes you can play out the clock and some do. Some may choose to stay in a relationship with no love but why let it get to that point. If you buy a beautiful car you take care of it, you don't let it rust out and lose it's value. How much more true is this with the precious gift that is love. 

To me that sums up what happens with lots and lots of walkaway spouses. Not all some of this can happen because the spouse is delusional, having a mid life crisis, or just selfish. But I think in a lot of cases it is the culmination of years of one spouse feeling hurt by the other spouse. 

Now the flip side. 

If you love your spouse, want to keep your marriage , even if you are in the early stages of a good marriage, if your spouse is causing you pain repeatedly it is your responsibility for yourself but also for the partner that you love to TELL THEM. Don't couch it, be 100% honest. You may not know it but this is going to eventually kill your love for them and by that time it will be too late because you won't care. YOU ARE NOT BEING A GOOD SPOUSE TAKING THIS ON IN SILENCE. In fact you are being a dishonest spouse. The exact opposite. Is it surprising to me that lots of people who never had the guts to tell their spouse the truth about how they were feeling also end up starting hidden relationships because they don't have the guts to leave their spouses in the first place? Not really, it's all the same thing really. No matter what the one spouse did, the cheating spouse is just as bad. 

And though I think it is a shame it needs to be said, I will add this last part. None of this absolves you *******s if you cheat. Have the guts to leave. 

End of rant.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There is a definition for a walk away spouse. A walk away spouse is someone who told their spouse, usually for years, what the problems are. But their spouse just ignored it. Maybe even considered them to be just nagging.

Get Relationship Advice and Solve Marriage Problems with Michele Weiner-Davis - Divorce Busting®


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> There is a definition for a walk away spouse. A walk away spouse is someone who told their spouse, usually for years, what the problems are. But their spouse just ignored it. Maybe even considered them to be just nagging.
> 
> Get Relationship Advice and Solve Marriage Problems with Michele Weiner-Davis - Divorce Busting®


Can you delete the duplicate thread. Not sure how that happened. By the way than the second part of this post may not fit the technical definition of a walkaway spouse. The point still remains.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

sokillme said:


> So I was elaborating this in another thread but it really hit me of this so I thought I would post this here. I am sure for many people this is kind of a no-brainer however I think this is another one of those things that needs to be said.
> 
> Causing your spouse pain for prolong periods of time will erode their love for you and eventually kill your marriage. Like sands on a beach eventually there will be no love left. You can temporarily put sand back on the beach by doing fun or romantic things, however, unless you stop doing the things that cause pain there will come a point where there is no love left. Yes you can play out the clock and some do. Some may choose to stay in a relationship with no love but why let it get to that point. If you buy a beautiful car you take care of it, you don't let it rust out and lose it's value. How much more true is this with the precious gift that is love.
> 
> ...



So Kill Me, this may apply in some scenarios but real WAW usually do tell their partners, who do not understand, choose not to understand, minimise the problems and zone out the WAW.

YOu must also consider cultural differences. In western societies it is common to open up, say how you feel, etc but this is often frowned upon in other cultures, the more you talk the more you are regarded as being a trouble maker, causing problems when there are none, etc. In other words 'rug sweeping' is par for the course.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Can you delete the duplicate thread. Not sure how that happened. By the way than the second part of this post may not fit the technical definition of a walkaway spouse. The point still remains.


deleted

The second point is a good one.

Often times people believe that "Walk Away Spouse" means a spouse who seemed to be completely happy with the marriage all along and then one day they just walk away for no known reason. Talking about the actual definition of it might seem like a technicality but I really do not think it is. People need to pay attention when their spouse brings up things they are not happy with. But often people just think that if I'm happy, surely my spouse is happy and all that complaining is just silly noise. It's not silly noise, it's had to be addressed in a timely manner.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> deleted
> 
> The second point is a good one.
> 
> Often times people believe that "Walk Away Spouse" means a spouse who seemed to be completely happy with the marriage all along and then one day they just walk away for no known reason. Talking about the actual definition of it might seem like a technicality but I really do not think it is. People need to pay attention when their spouse brings up things they are not happy with. But often people just think that if I'm happy, surely my spouse is happy and all that complaining is just silly noise. It's not silly noise, it's had to be addressed in a timely manner.


This is a very good additional point.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> deleted
> 
> The second point is a good one.
> 
> Often times people believe that "Walk Away Spouse" means a spouse who seemed to be completely happy with the marriage all along and then one day they just walk away for no known reason. Talking about the actual definition of it might seem like a technicality but I really do not think it is. People need to pay attention when their spouse brings up things they are not happy with. But often people just think that if I'm happy, surely my spouse is happy and all that complaining is just silly noise. It's not silly noise, it's had to be addressed in a timely manner.


Your points are accurate and valid. However one of the things that muddys the waters and makes things so unclear is that a wife can complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day. 

I'm truly not trying to be chauvinistic, I am just stating fact. 

When a guy hears 47 various complaints in a day ranging everywhere from the dishwasher leaving bits of Wheaties on the cereal bowl to the car making a funny noise to the kids leaving their shoes in the middle of the living room, it's hard to decipher which issues are directed at him that he needs to address, verses just venting. 

Men by nature are "fixers" and feel we are supposed to fix what breaks, but when Oprah and the other gurus are telling us that we need to listen and "be present" and just let women vent when they are complaining, it's hard for us to know which complaint is just a vent, which funny noise actually needs to be fixed, and which issue is being directed towards us that we actually need to address in ourselves to preserve the relationship. 

If I get 47 complaints a day, which ones are about me that I need to address in order to save the marriage???????????????


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

My thoughts?

Let 'em walk... but not without paying/owning up to what's due.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Most of the time, if they walk out on you, you've earned it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Most of the time, if they walk out on you, you've earned it.


Source?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

47 complaints a day.

The ones that are in your control are the ones you fix.

Dishwasher wheaties only you if your sticky unrinsed wheatie bowls in it. That's a vent.

You don't romance me anymore that's a you. 

Kids shoes in the middle of the floor is a split. Your both parents. 

My point is women do tend to vent. But it shouldn't be to hard to pick out the ones that need attention and the level of priority it should get.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Your points are accurate and valid. However one of the things that muddys the waters and makes things so unclear is that a wife can complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day.
> 
> I'm truly not trying to be chauvinistic, I am just stating fact.
> 
> ...


If your wife a SAHM? 
Is she the main care giver for your children?
Does she do most of the housework?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Your points are accurate and valid. However one of the things that muddys the waters and makes things so unclear is that a wife can complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day.


Stereo typing women like this does not help at all. It’s patently untrue that all women “complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day”. Some women might do this, but far from all women. This stereo type about women is one of the reasons that so many men do not pay attention when their wives complain… because the guy has heard this stereo type all their life. The guy has been taught to ignore the things his wife says. Most women do not “complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day”. But, because of this stereo type, their husbands have been taught to ignore their valid concerns.

There are probably as man men who “complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day” as there are women. I was married to one of them. There was nothing that I did right. I get it.

But do not paint all women, or even most women with the same brush. 

I am one of the many women who seldom complains. And when I do complain, or talk about a problem I’ve thought it through and organized my thoughts. But, because of this stereo type even those well though through, very seldom complaints, were attacked by my husband as just some woman doing what women do – complaining, blah blah blahn.


oldshirt said:


> I'm truly not trying to be chauvinistic, I am just stating fact.


It is not fact and yes, your comment is nothing less than bashing all women. Chauvinistic? Not sure but you are basically passing along a false stereo type because most women do not do this.



oldshirt said:


> When a guy hears 47 various complaints in a day ranging everywhere from the dishwasher leaving bits of Wheaties on the cereal bowl to the car making a funny noise to the kids leaving their shoes in the middle of the living room, it's hard to decipher which issues are directed at him that he needs to address, verses just venting.


I’m sorry if you were married to a woman who did this. P


oldshirt said:


> Men by nature are "fixers" and feel we are supposed to fix what breaks, but when Oprah and the other gurus are telling us that we need to listen and "be present" and just let women vent when they are complaining, it's hard for us to know which complaint is just a vent, which funny noise actually needs to be fixed, and which issue is being directed towards us that we actually need to address in ourselves to preserve the relationship.


Men, meaning all men, are not fixers. I doubt that even most men are really fixers. Plenty of men do not seek to fix anything. The stereo types do not help at all. The adage that men are fixers basically is nothing more than attempt to shut women up so that they do not feel like they can address their needs with their husband. If a man is a fixer, he would have sat her down and listened to her and fix the problem with the marriage, or the problem with the house, etc. And if that did not work he would have gotten her into marriage counseling with him and done everything they could to fix the problems, find out her needs, etc., so that she was not so frustrated that all she did was complaining all day. He also would have communicated to her that she needed to find a way to be more thoughtful in her complaining about things because a rain shower of complaints is not helpful.

As I said, my ex (son’s father) was a constant complainer. He was not a fixer. Now I was the ‘fixer’ in the relationship. I seldom complained about anything because I’m smart enough to know to pick my battles well and think things through (yes even women have brains). I was the one who tried to fix any problem, who tried to get us talking and to address issues. He was the one who complained constantly and avoided fixing anything at all. 

My other ex (step-kids’ father) was not a complainer at all. He’d have to talk to me to complain. He just left everything up to me and ignored me and his kids. And again, I did not complain all the time and was very thoughtful about anything I brought up. Again, he was not a fixer, he was an avoider.

I am sure that both of them believed the stereo type that you are advancing here, that women are not worth listening to because all women just “complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day”.



oldshirt said:


> If I get 47 complaints a day, which ones are about me that I need to address in order to save the marriage???????????????


This is your wife, not all woman. Stop stereo typing all women. You married a woman who apparently complains a lot. That’s her, not all women.

I thought as a man you are a fixer… why can’t you fix this? It’s because you are not a fixer. And you cannot fix this alone. There is a way that you can work with your wife and guild the two do restructure your marriage to fix this.

Here are some ideas that would help you fix the obvious problem with your marriage.

On their own these three examples you gave look like pretty small complaints. But you need to look for the bigger issue, and if you find the bigger issues I’ll bet that most of her constant complaints fall under those categories.

First off, if your wife is complaining as much as you say she is, she is not happy and is very frustrated with your relationship. That’s clear. So what has her so frustrated.


*Love Buster – ignoring her reasonable concerns:* Dishwasher - She has a reasonable concern here. Putting solid food in the dishwasher could damage the dishwasher. That cheerio might represent some other solid food items that could clog the dishwasher. So she is just being careful by not wanting any solid food in the dishwasher. You should be glad that she is taking good care of the appliance. Would you put a cheerio or other solid food down your sink drain? Why would you do it in a dishwasher? Plus, what is the harm in doing some things that just make her feel good? When you do things that please her, you are filing her love bank.

*Love Buster - Disrespect:* Car making funny noises - This is a valid concern so why does it bother you so much if your wife raises a valid concern about the car? If the car might need work, you can acknowledge that you will take care of it. If it’s her car and she takes care of it herself, you could suggest that she take it in. Or if the noise is nothing, you could explain to her all about the doohickey heating up. What I take away from his is that you just consider anything your wife says to be either an annoyance or a complaint and thus not worthy of your attention. Basically, you do not respect your wife. I can see why she would be so frustrated fi she cannot even mention that the car is making funny noises without you taking it negatively. 

*Love Buster - Not working together as equal partners:* Kids leaving shoes thrown around. She wants to teach her kids to keep the house clean and she probably wants to minimize that amount of housework she has to do. My bet is that you are not so concerned about these things. The problem here is that the two of you are not on the same page when it comes to parenting and you do not back her up. ​
This is not about you jumping every time she complains, it’s about the two of you stopping love busting, identifying your needs and meeting each other’s needs.

Get the books “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. Read them with her and do the work with her. Your marriage can be completely restructured if the two of you will work on it together. If she won’t do this, then you do your part until she comes around. Or you divorce her for her refusing to work with you to fix your marriage. 

And stop believing a defeatist stereo type that allows you to dismiss your wife’s concerns.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Your points are accurate and valid. However one of the things that muddys the waters and makes things so unclear is that a wife can complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day.
> 
> I'm truly not trying to be chauvinistic, I am just stating fact.
> 
> ...


It is funny, but when we talk about relationships and some men say that women "complain all of the time, how are we supposed to know what they want" as an excuse to ignore the issues in their marriage which lead to other problems. Then when the wife walks away they refuse to accept responsibility. 

If we took this to a different context, to a career forum and the topic was "How to Suceed at work" and the boss or co-workers (let's make them male for argument's sake) had a list of things that were issues at work, most men would address them or else the co-workers would complain about you being inconsiderate.

Marriages take work, it takes 2 people to make them work. If you are a type of person who doesn't notice issues until another person brings them to your attention, then it would seem as if your spouse is constantly complaining. If you think that things are "no big deal" until someone trips and falls on the shoes left in the middle of the floor or until the dishwasher breaks and you have to buy a new one, then the fault lies with you. Not with the person who is addressing the issue by making you aware of it.

People who don't know the difference between a vent and an issue which needs to be addressed are simply ostriches who like to stick their head in the sand until someone else just fixes the problems for them. A perfect world would be that problems magically disappear and no one complains so everything stays hunky dory for such people. Problem is that when people stop complaining, it does not mean that the problems are not there, they just went underground and that is when they fester and become a cancer waiting to flare up in a malignant manner. 

When the wife gets quiet, this is when you need to really worry.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> If your wife a SAHM?
> Is she the main care giver for your children?
> Does she do most of the housework?


I'm not talking about me specifically, I am stating a general concept. women probably on average make 100:1 complaints as compared to men (yes I am shamelessly and blatantly generalizing, but I am doing that to make a point) 

As a guy, when you hear complaints from sun up to sundown and then hear about bad dreams from the night before, it's hard to decipher which are something that you need to address in yourself as it pertains to your marriage and which are simply venting and blowing off steam. 

Here is some more generalizing but many women are often so subtle in their cries for attention and addressing their needs that it goes over the man's head and lost in alphabet soup of other daily complaints. 

If a man gets upset with another man, he gets in his face, calls him an Ahole and punches him in the face. Women drop subtle little hints and skirts around the actual issues. 

Then when they get fed up, something breaks inside of them, they detach and leave. 

In their minds they tried and tried and tried for years but couldn't get him to listen and he ignored and blew off their pleas and refused to address the issues. 

In the man's mind, he was watching the football game like he does every sunday and wondered where she was going with all her bags packed.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Source?


The definition of a WAS is that they've told their partner there is a problem, and have been ignored. The sources are the the WAS themselves.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Your points are accurate and valid. However one of the things that muddys the waters and makes things so unclear is that a wife can complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day.
> 
> I'm truly not trying to be chauvinistic, I am just stating fact.
> 
> ...


I think you are exagerating and if you hear complaints it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which are general ones about the house, the kids, the neighbour, work, etc and your relationship. Your relationship or the things that will affect your relationship are the ones to hear for and deal with. The rest just let it go. Women do not need fixers, they need listeners for the most part.

Be glad if she is complaining, it is when she goes silent, the complaining, the 'nagging, stops, then be afraid, be very afraid. That is when she has decided to shut down, not more trying to get the H to 'hear' her and she may be making plans to move on or at least part of her heart is gone.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Stereo typing women like this does not help at all. It’s patently untrue that all women “complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day”. Some women might do this, but far from all women. This stereo type about women is one of the reasons that so many men do not pay attention when their wives complain… because the guy has heard this stereo type all their life. The guy has been taught to ignore the things his wife says. Most women do not “complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day”. But, because of this stereo type, their husbands have been taught to ignore their valid concerns.
> 
> There are probably as man men who “complain about dozens if not hundreds of things a day” as there are women. I was married to one of them. There was nothing that I did right. I get it.
> 
> ...


Away put your weapons, I mean you no harm. I didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest and I was not calling you out on anything when I quoted your post. I was simply referencing what you said in order to bring up the issue of that it is often hard for men to grasp everything that is being relayed to them. 

I was not necessarily referencing my specific situation and I certainly wasn't calling you to task on anything you said. As I had stated, what you had said was accurate and valid. 

And yes, I was stereotyping and I was generalizing. I figured I was stereotyping and generalizing enough that it was obvious I was doing it to make a conceptual point. I think the readers here on TAM are enlightened enough to know that not "all" women do this and that not "all" men do that. 

My apologies if I made it seem like I was calling you out or if I ruffled anyone's feathers.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not talking about me specifically, I am stating a general concept. women probably on average make 100:1 complaints as compared to men (yes I am shamelessly and blatantly generalizing, but I am doing that to make a point)
> 
> As a guy, when you hear complaints from sun up to sundown and then hear about bad dreams from the night before, it's hard to decipher which are something that you need to address in yourself as it pertains to your marriage and which are simply venting and blowing off steam.
> 
> ...


Generalizations do not work to address the issue of walk away spouses, it only serves as a smoke screen.

Most women can't just walk up to their husbands and call them a A&&Hole and punch them in the face, if they did it would be a domestic violence issue. Women usually address the issue up front, then when the husband blows it off for months at a time they just stop complaining. The husband would then say that since she is not complaining anymore then the problem is solved, right? Nope. What usually happens when the wife becomes silent on an issue is that she builds resentment towards the husband, which leaks out into other areas of their marriage (most common place is their sex life). The husband then wonders, why doesn't she want to have sex anymore? 

Here is a newsflash for men who don't like their wives complaining, a wife who is content in their marriage doesn't complaing and is happily sexual in the marriage. If you want to keep her in that state, please address her issues as they arrise, don't fall back on stereotypes and generalizations to soothe you when you hit a rough patch in your marriage. Don't expect her to act like a man in one way (address issues), you didn't marry her because she acted like a man, you appreciated her feminity. So you should learn how to listen to her, she is not one of your male buddies who you go out to drinks with.

Funny thing, most men who say that women should communicate like men won't appreciate the results, this is just thrown at us in order to silence us and excuse the men for not being able to listen.

Imaging this scenario:

Wife says, " Hey you a&&Hole dirtbag, don't leave solid food on the dishes when you place them in the dishwasher, ****ing numbnut!"

OR

"Hey, for the last time, If you don't stop ****ing me before I am aroused in bed this will be the last ****ing time you get any in bed!" "Stop touching me there, touch me here you idiot sob!"
Yep, that helps the mood in the room, lol.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

sokillme said:


> So I was elaborating this in another thread but it really hit me of this so I thought I would post this here. I am sure for many people this is kind of a no-brainer however I think this is another one of those things that needs to be said.
> 
> Causing your spouse pain for prolong periods of time will erode their love for you and eventually kill your marriage. Like sands on a beach eventually there will be no love left. You can temporarily put sand back on the beach by doing fun or romantic things, however, unless you stop doing the things that cause pain there will come a point where there is no love left. Yes you can play out the clock and some do. Some may choose to stay in a relationship with no love but why let it get to that point. If you buy a beautiful car you take care of it, you don't let it rust out and lose it's value. How much more true is this with the precious gift that is love.
> 
> ...


Another part is when people just can't handle the responsibilities of healthy relationships. This often stems from their past, self esteem, or whatever. They walk away because it is more painful for them to stay. Some people just would rather stay in the mud. Those who marry those types pay a terrible price.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I keep getting stuck on the dried cereal. How long does it take to rinse out a bowl, 10 seconds or less? Or 10 full minutes to soak and scrape it out later? I might get this from a kid but a full grown man? Ah jezus . 

It's a million little things like that that turn a relationship from man and wife to mother and son. In of itself? Trivial. Pile on a million other "little" things? The boat gets heavy. Pretty soon the wife (or husband if the situation is reversed) and the whole relationship dynamic changes. Then wonder why you're not getting laid? No one wants to sleep with someone they view as a child more than their husband/wife. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> If a man gets upset with another man, he gets in his face, calls him an Ahole and punches him in the face.


Maybe back in the good old days when men were men. Seems we have many more Beta males in society now and they're afraid of their own shadows. 



> In their minds they tried and tried and tried for years but couldn't get him to listen and he ignored and blew off their pleas and refused to address the issues.
> In the man's mind, he was watching the football game like he does every sunday and wondered where she was going with all her bags packed.


Yeah.

No.

While it's certainly true that some women beat around the bush and can't come out and say what's ailing them, there are plenty of women who have *no* problem letting their husband's know when they're unhappy. These are the guys who listen with half an ear, shake or nod their heads at what they think is the appropriate time, mutter or grunt a two word reply when they think it's needed, but all the while they're somewhere_ else,_ far, far away.

And these are the *same* damned sad sacks who'll tell anyone who'll listen to them how everything was totally fine and then OUT OF THE BLUE, their wife left them.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Elizabeth001 said:


> I keep getting stuck on the dried cereal. How long does it take to rinse out a bowl, 10 seconds or less? Or 10 full minutes to soak and scrape it out later? I might get this from a kid but a full grown man? Ah jezus .
> 
> It's a million little things like that that turn a relationship from man and wife to mother and son. In of itself? Trivial. Pile on a million other "little" things? The boat gets heavy. Pretty soon the wife (or husband if the situation is reversed) and the whole relationship dynamic changes. Then wonder why you're not getting laid? No one wants to sleep with someone they view as a child more than their husband/wife.
> 
> ...










Just an FYI for everyone, I am actually the one that rinses and scrapes dishes before they go in the washer and I am the one that *****es about stuck-on food. 

She's the one that just throws things in the dishwasher thinking that it will magically wash off all the stuck-on gunk. 

I was just using that as a general example. Like I said, I was talking in general concepts, not necessarily citing specific examples of my own home life. 

The dishwasher thing is actually my pet peeve. 

.....and yes, it has been 20+ years of griping about the dishwasher and it just goes in one ear and out the other. should I walk away? LOL ;-)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not talking about me specifically, I am stating a general concept. women probably on average make 100:1 complaints as compared to men (yes I am shamelessly and blatantly generalizing, but I am doing that to make a point)


You are wrong that women complain more than men. What studies show is that men and women complain at about the same rate. But they complain about different things.
Men are most likely to complain about work-life conflicts.. such as if they come home from work and do some house work, child care or cooking. 
Women complain about other things, mostly to try to get action. Instead of ordering you to help her get the kids to not leave their shoes around, your wife complains. She hopes you will understand that she need you to help her co-parent the kids on this one. She’s stuck in a catch 22 because she cannot order you to do it, that’s disrespectful. She cannot ask you to back her up, she knows you will blow her off since you have a long history to not backing her up with co-parenting. So, she’s at the point of just complaining with the hope that you do co-parent with her this time.



oldshirt said:


> As a guy, when you hear complaints from sun up to sundown and then hear about bad dreams from the night before, it's hard to decipher which are something that you need to address in yourself as it pertains to your marriage and which are simply venting and blowing off steam.


Wait a minute. You cannot tell the difference your wife SHARING about a bad dream and her COMPLAINING about the kids leaving shoes on the floor? This makes it sound like you just want your wife to shut up and never talk. 

You could ask her what she wants… “what do you want me to do when the kids leave a mess”? Ask her. Find out. Then do it. Or if you don’t want to do it, just tell her “well I don’t care if the kids leave their shoes in the middle of the floor. I don’t care if they don’t learn good living habits. So, on I will not co-parent with you on this. Ask what she needs/wants. Then be honest in whether or not you intend to address it. Or negotiate some other solution if her solution is not acceptable to you.

When your wife talks about a bad dream she has, all you need to do is just listen and then tell her that yea that’s a lousy dream. That’s it. You cannot fix what happens in a dream. There is nothing to fix.



oldshirt said:


> Here is some more generalizing but many women are often so subtle in their cries for attention and addressing their needs that it goes over the man's head and lost in alphabet soup of other daily complaints.
> If a man gets upset with another man, he gets in his face, calls him an Ahole and punches him in the face. Women drop subtle little hints and skirts around the actual issues.


Really? I’ve seen a lot of men upset at other men, I have seldom seen them get in the guy’s face , call him an ahole to his face and punch him in the face. Most of the guys who do that these days are in jail anyway. It’s called assault.

If your wife were to approach you like that, get in your face, call you names and hit you, I doubt that it would work.

Some women are subtle talking about what they need. Not all women are, not by a long show. But if you are married to a woman who is, then you know what she is like and you adjust. Instead of looking for more excuses in stereo types you adjust to the woman you are married to. You learn to pick up her subtle messages and you talk to her and tell her that you need for her to speak more clearly about what she needs/wants. And if you need her to get in your face, call you names and punch you, tell her that. Teach her about yourself. And stop with the excuses.




oldshirt said:


> Then when they get fed up, something breaks inside of them, they detach and leave.


Yea, why would anyone stay with a spouse how ignores them, wants them to shut up and not even share about things like disturbing dreams, will not co-parent and basically does not like them. It sounds to me like you don’t like your wife at all. Why would she want to stay? You might not want to stay either… you might be the walk away some day. After all she’s ignoring our need by not communizing with you in the “manly” way of yelling, cursing you out and punishing you. Seems you are both potential walk aways.


oldshirt said:


> In their minds they tried and tried and tried for years but couldn't get him to listen and he ignored and blew off their pleas and refused to address the issues.


Yep, that’s what happened in my marriage to my step-kids’ dad. I did not complain all the time and it was well thought out when I did.
“I need hep around the house. You need to do about half the house and yard work. Here is a list of the chores, add any more that you can think of and pick the ones you will take responsibility for. “ (this was after a 2-3 years of him doing zero around the house. He agreed, checked what he would do. Then he proceeded to do NOTHING at all. 
“I’m working very long hours and need some help. Please cook dinner and have it ready at 6:30 every night because YOUR kids need to eat dinner. That way when I get home late, there will also be dinner for me and I won’t have to cook for your starving kids at 9PM.) He agreed that this was something that he would do. He did it about 4 times and stopped. 
After 12 years of this I filed for divorce. Yep something broke inside of me and I gave up and detached. According to you, shame on me because I did not yell at him, call him names and punch him out. But it’s clearly all my fault.


oldshirt said:


> In the man's mind, he was watching the football game like he does every sunday and wondered where she was going with all her bags packed.


If you are not aware that your wife is this unhappy, then there is something profoundly wrong with you.

https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa15/2015/10/20/complaining-which-gender-does-it-more/
White House Report Indicates Men Complain More Than Women - What's Wrong Boys? Can't Take the Heat? | Guff
https://www.coursehero.com/file/180165/SpeechCommunitiesOutline/


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Just an FYI for everyone, I am actually the one that rinses and scrapes dishes before they go in the washer and I am the one that *****es about stuck-on food.
> 
> She's the one that just throws things in the dishwasher thinking that it will magically wash off all the stuck-on gunk.
> 
> I was just using that as a general example. Like I said, I was talking in general concepts, not necessarily citing specific examples of my own home life.


Ok so you gave an example that does not apply to your wife. How exactly are we supposed to know that? 



oldshirt said:


> The dishwasher thing is actually my pet peeve.
> 
> .....and yes, it has been 20+ years of griping about the dishwasher and it just goes in one ear and out the other. should I walk away? LOL ;-)


So do you complain to her about her putting the dishes in the dishwasher with stuck on gunk? If so, that could be a love buster on her part if it really bothers you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

farsidejunky said:


> Source?


The source is the definition of Walk Away Wife (extrapolated to Walk Away Spouse).

If your spouse complained to you for years and you chose to ignore their complaints and needs for years... then it's your fault for ignoring them for years.

So yea, you would deserve it for ignoring them for years.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Just an FYI for everyone, I am actually the one that rinses and scrapes dishes before they go in the washer and I am the one that *****es about stuck-on food.
> 
> She's the one that just throws things in the dishwasher thinking that it will magically wash off all the stuck-on gunk.
> 
> ...


Talk about a 180 reversal, maybe you just use examples which do pertain to your situation instead of just throwing up a stereotypical example of a nagging wife berating her poor husband about a dishwasher.

Maybe you are not being clear in your approach in talking about this situation with your wife, I can tell by the way you tend to speak in general terms that this may be why she doesn't pay attention.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Just an FYI for everyone, I am actually the one that rinses and scrapes dishes before they go in the washer and I am the one that *****es about stuck-on food.


Just buy a better dishwasher. We had one that would deal with dirty pots, too, without "prewashing." Well worth the small extra cost, especially if kids are still at home.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

OK people, for the umpteenth time - I was not citing specific examples of my own home life. 

I was generalizing and stereotyping and making up theoretical examples. 

There are a million Walk Away Wives and a number of Walk Away Husbands every year. We cannot cite the specifics of each. We do have to rely on certain generalizations and trends. 

I think as relationship forum devotees and regular TAM readers, we are all able to tell when someone is relating a firsthand experience vs when they are talking in general concepts to make a point. 

I do regret that hit some nerves and upset the fruitbasket here. 

The things that I mentioned are not from my own household. I am actually the one that gripes about the dishwasher. I don't watch TV sports....at all. And I would never think of one of my wife's bad dreams as just another whinefest. 

And my wife is not a whiner. 

While the examples I mentioned are not of my own household, they are real out there. Spouses do often have trouble hearing each other and grasping the significance of their partner's grievances. 

Perhaps it was erroneous of me to use such sweeping generalizations and steriotypes to make my point and I do regret if I triggered anyone or hurt anyone's feelings. It was certainly not my intent to do that.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> Just an FYI for everyone, I am actually the one that rinses and scrapes dishes before they go in the washer and I am the one that *****es about stuck-on food.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If it's coupled with a million other things that she completely ignores because they are not important to HER and you feel more like her parent than her husband, then YES. 

If it's just one annoyance, then no. It's when the entire dynamic changes that it becomes a deal breaker to most folks. Who wants to be married to someone you have to treat like a child?

And why is this always directed towards females anyway? Just like sexless marriages, I'm sure the situation is not gender specific. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

techmom said:


> Generalizations do not work to address the issue of walk away spouses, it only serves as a smoke screen.
> 
> Most women can't just walk up to their husbands and call them a A&&Hole and punch them in the face, if they did it would be a domestic violence issue. Women usually address the issue up front, then when the husband blows it off for months at a time they just stop complaining. The husband would then say that since she is not complaining anymore then the problem is solved, right? Nope. What usually happens when the wife becomes silent on an issue is that she builds resentment towards the husband, which leaks out into other areas of their marriage (most common place is their sex life). The husband then wonders, why doesn't she want to have sex anymore?
> 
> ...


This ties in to me asking for a source for the previous broad generalization.

Your opening sentence is well stated... Making a statement that generalizations do not work.

Then you follow it up with...generalizations.

So...do they work, or do they not?

And for those hammering @oldshirt for his generalizations(which are one step away from out of line), do you find it odd that you are substantiating your arguments with your own generalizations?

The whole madness needs to stop.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> OK people, for the umpteenth time - I was not citing specific examples of my own home life.
> 
> I was generalizing and stereotyping and making up theoretical examples.
> 
> ...


No we cannot tell when you give examples if they are from your real life or not. It will assumed that you are talking about your own marriage unless you clearly state that you are not. geez




oldshirt said:


> I do regret that hit some nerves and upset the fruitbasket here.


Name calling other members now? So if women speak up, we are fruitbasket"? Really? 

How about you not fabricate stories based on gross, inaccurate stereo types and talk about what you actually know.. your own marriage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

When things were really bad in my marriage, I would complain, complain, complain but my H just wanted to shut me down, by avoiding the conversation or getting annoyed and even calling me aggressive (I probably did raise my voice as I got frustrated).
Then when I felt I wasn't getting through I just stopped talking, I shut down completely then after some time of that I told him I would leave when my youngest was out the door. Just before I went on my stint abroad, if I am quiet or wont engage he asks why I am so switched off or cold? A woman cannot win, she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> No we cannot tell when you give examples if they are from your real life or not. It will assumed that you are talking about your own marriage unless you clearly state that you are not. geez
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL, upsetting the fruitbasket is an English idiom which means he didn't mean to cause a fuss or upset anyone. It most definitely does not mean he is calling anyone a name! :smile2:

Others include; upset the apple cart, upset the fruit barrel, etc

I know another English idiom which is 'fruitcake' now that would be calling somebody a name!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

aine said:


> LOL, upsetting the fruitbasket is an English idiom which means he didn't mean to cause a fuss or upset anyone. It most definitely does not mean he is calling anyone a name! :smile2:
> 
> Others include; upset the apple cart, upset the fruit barrel, etc
> 
> I know another English idiom which is 'fruitcake' now that would be calling somebody a name!


Hm, I looked up "upsetting the fruitbasket". Did not see that meaning for it... actually only idiom I found "fruitbasket" is that it can mean a man's genitals.

I've heard "upset the apple cart" before but not the others. Oh well, if I misunderstood ...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I think maybe there is something to the idea that issues can get lost in the avalanche of life and possibly even other complaining. So on that note here are come common complaints that I think should be seen as red flags. 

Men's complaints that women should really be concerned about.
_
We don't have sex enough or when we do you are NEVER into it.
You boss me around and don't treat me with respect.
You are too flirty and comfortable with other men or a man in particular. 
You put me down, especially in front of others like your friends, family or even worse other men. _

Women's complaints that Men should be concerned about.
_
You don't talk to me enough and I am lonely.
No romance or attempt to make me feel special.
I am not your mom or your servant.
You are not a good leader and make me worried that you are going to screw up or lives with your bad decision making. _

Both sexes

_You take me for granted. 
You choose other people like your parents or friends needs over ours as a couple. 
Your focus is too much on you like with money and not us. _

Feel free to add ones in a reply to this topic.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FTR, I am the one locking this thread in an effort to subdue the flames.


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