# It's all about timing.



## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

The Bible says that there is a time for everything, under heaven. In the case of marital infidelity, it is as much about knowing WHEN to do something, as it is about IF something should be done. Recently, several COUPLES have come to TAM to discus their experiences with cheating, and to seek solidarity and advice. Posters, like myself and others, will give them advice, based upon our own experiences. Sometimes, this advice is considered by the Couples as helpful (or harmful), and sometimes this advice is based upon where we, as the advisors are in OUR OWN recovery from the affair. As you can see, the variables are wide and deep. The major problem is that usually the advice isn't wrong, but that the TIMING of it is wrong. I want to start a thread, where posters can come, and tell where THEY think that they are in their recovery, which I think will be very helpful to ALL posters, in deciding what advice to give, and if it is the proper time for that advice. BTW, it doesn't matter if you are reconciling or divorcing, what matters is where you, as a person , are at, in your recovery.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

My situation has changed Dramatically. My marriage is over, my ex wife has moved to another part of the country, and I am entering into a new and very different relationship from the ones I have known in the past. Emotionally, I have gotten over my anger, but not my skepticism. I'm still willing to trust, but only so far. My affection for my ex wife is , even after D, still very strong, but it's the affection for the person I thought her to be , not the person she hid from my eyes, nor the person she became after the cheating took place. I have found that I'm actually much more hopeful about my new love, than I thought I would be at this stage.This is as much due to my new GF's character and actions as it is to anything I've done. So, in the main, I've recovered from the affair.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Like Buckaroo Banzai said, "where-ever you go, there you are". What does it matter , at what stage of recovery you are in, if you don't know it?


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## Son of Kong (Jul 12, 2012)

A timing thing well I have no idea where we are at, every day can be something different or just the same but here goes we are working on the R last Dday in mid May so that's it, had so great days, good days, bad days and down right sh*tty days. Today is well hasn't been the greatest but it's not over yet.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

What issues are giving you the most problems and what ones do you have the best handle on?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Badblood said:


> I want to start a thread, where posters can come, and tell where THEY think that they are in their recovery, which I think will be very helpful to ALL posters, in deciding what advice to give, and if it is the proper time for that advice.


People here are emotionaly comprimised.

It's likely they do not know where they are, or where they would like to believe they are, they aren't.

Having a 'order form' for the type of advice they would like based on what they would like to believe... Sounds dangerously close to telling people what they want to hear. No can do brother. It's sad but sometimes, the best advice is the least welcomed.

Obviously, this is just my opinion.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Badblood said:


> The Bible says that there is a time for everything, under heaven. In the case of marital infidelity, it is as much about knowing WHEN to do something, as it is about IF something should be done. Recently, several COUPLES have come to TAM to discus their experiences with cheating, and to seek solidarity and advice. Posters, like myself and others, will give them advice, based upon our own experiences. Sometimes, this advice is considered by the Couples as helpful (or harmful), and sometimes this advice is based upon where we, as the advisors are in OUR OWN recovery from the affair. As you can see, the variables are wide and deep. The major problem is that usually the advice isn't wrong, but that the TIMING of it is wrong. I want to start a thread, where posters can come, and tell where THEY think that they are in their recovery, which I think will be very helpful to ALL posters, in deciding what advice to give, and if it is the proper time for that advice. BTW, it doesn't matter if you are reconciling or divorcing, what matters is where you, as a person , are at, in your recovery.



I think that this is an awesome idea and could prove to be very helpful for those just arriving on TAM, which is usually in a very hurt and vulnerable state. I hope you don't mind this former WW saying that I'm proud of you for realizing this. I think that acknowledging it shows great personal growth for you, as well.

Now, with that having been said, don't let my flattery go to your head or I will put you back on my naughty list so fast that you won't see it coming. And trust me, with 5 kids, I have a direct line to the North Pole.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> People here are emotionaly comprimised.
> 
> It's likely they do not know where they are, or where they would like to believe they are, they aren't.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking more like telling them what they NEED to hear, at the proper time in their recovery. An example would be to try to get a BS to start having sex with the WS, before he/she had dealt with the "mind movies', of the affair. Or telling the WS that he/she need to "get over", the OP, while that person is still grieving the loss.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

Badblood said:


> *So, in the main, I've recovered from the affair.*



A statement heard somewhat rarely here.

I must say it has a good ring to it.

Congratulations, Badblood.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

It was a matter of sorting out what I wanted to do and when. I went through all of the "stages", that a BS goes through, but I always knew what I wanted the result to be. I got lots of advice from posters here, but some of it fell flat, because it wasn't the time for it.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I actually started this thread because of something Betrayed 1 said. He said that some of his questions to Empty Inside weren't meant to be answered but were a "punch in her face". And Empty Inside stated that when this happened, it caused her work less on the R. I think that what happened with them was that they were at different stages of R, thus what was happening wasn't being productive or having the wanted effect. There is certainly a time when it's OK for the BS to "punch the WS in the face" ( I am speaking figuratively, of course) in order to vent his/her anger, and there is certainly a time when the WWS needs a punch in the face, to help him/her get over the affair. What seems to cause as much trouble as anything else, is knowing when to do what.


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## Son of Kong (Jul 12, 2012)

Badblood said:


> What issues are giving you the most problems and what ones do you have the best handle on?


Well let's see, I don't trust her, triggers are everywhere, self esteem issues (she says she has always been sexually satisfied, her issues were a lack of emotional / caring / not saying the things she needed to hear however everything she did from the one time to the sexting and pics was all sex I didn't really see the emotional benefit she was receiving from men telling her that they wanted to fu*k her) so not only do I feel like I haven't satisfied her of course my thoughts go to how he did / a size issue and I consider myself fairly well endowed. The abandonment of me our kids our relationship. How's that for a start then throw on top a bit of an ED issue and I want to get a rope and find a tall tree some days (thank god for my kids).
Have fun, I am sure I have some other things going on right now those are the things that jump out.

:scratchhead:::smthumbup::lol::rofl::yawn2:issed::slap::cussing::bounce::crazy::absolut::toast:
SO many emotions so little time


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Son of Kong said:


> Well let's see, I don't trust her, triggers are everywhere, self esteem issues (she says she has always been sexually satisfied, her issues were a lack of emotional / caring / not saying the things she needed to hear however everything she did from the one time to the sexting and pics was all sex I didn't really see the emotional benefit she was receiving from men telling her that they wanted to fu*k her) so not only do I feel like I haven't satisfied her of course my thoughts go to how he did / a size issue and I consider myself fairly well endowed. The abandonment of me our kids our relationship. How's that for a start then throw on top a bit of an ED issue and I want to get a rope and find a tall tree some days (thank god for my kids).
> Have fun, I am sure I have some other things going on right now those are the things that jump out.
> 
> :scratchhead:::smthumbup::lol::rofl::yawn2:issed::slap::cussing::bounce::crazy::absolut::toast:
> SO many emotions so little time


OK, Dude I get that you are all over the place, emotionally. So.........how is that working for you? Doesn't seem to be helping much. That's what this thread is for. You need to TRY to prioritize your issues with her and she with you, because neither of you are going to get better if you don't do some work. How can either of you help the other, and how can either of you have any meaningful resolution? Do you and her communicate at all? If so then you need to explain to her what you need and vice versa, but how you gonna do that, if you don't identify what are the MOST important issues, and when do you need some work done on them? Think about it for a while, and see what troubles you the most and deal with that issue alone, then work on the others in their turn. She needs to do the same. This stuff needs to happen, whether you R or D.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Son of Kong said:


> Well let's see, I don't trust her, triggers are everywhere, self esteem issues (she says she has always been sexually satisfied, her issues were a lack of emotional / caring / not saying the things she needed to hear however everything she did from the one time to the sexting and pics was all sex I didn't really see the emotional benefit she was receiving from men telling her that they wanted to fu*k her) so not only do I feel like I haven't satisfied her of course my thoughts go to how he did / a size issue and I consider myself fairly well endowed. The abandonment of me our kids our relationship. How's that for a start then throw on top a bit of an ED issue and I want to get a rope and find a tall tree some days (thank god for my kids).
> Have fun, I am sure I have some other things going on right now those are the things that jump out.
> 
> :scratchhead:::smthumbup::lol::rofl::yawn2:issed::slap::cussing::bounce::crazy::absolut::toast:
> SO many emotions so little time


You are about where I am in my R.

We now know where you are, sort of...so i have to ask where is she right now? is she remorseful, defensive, answering your questions, not answering them?

How is your communications with each other, talking things out. Are you in counseling?


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## Son of Kong (Jul 12, 2012)

We work hard every day on some things, sure I posted (faking it) because some days it is too much. She has been doing a good job with her part of this, a couple of slips as far as forgetting my feelings or how little things can set off a huge explosion. Now not all those emotions are there every day or at the same time, once in awhile sure but I don't get so overwhelmed like I did. One of the first things I did was to break this down into pieces, how/why it started, the act itself, the continued contact, easier to swallow and to talk about then just randomly going through all at once.
Example yesterday I had some things on my mind nothing big just some random thoughts about this crap, well in the morning we fooled around a bit well I had some (ahem) problems, she was very good about it but it bothered me most of the day. So last night we talked it out, I told her why it bothered me so much (bothers every man when it happens) but now thinking that guy didn't have any problems gettin it done what is wrong with me ? I have a great desire for my wife always have so its something me and the Dr. and the IC will have to continue to work on. She understood and took all the blame, knowing that it her fault I have to put up with this crap in my head.
She has answered all of my questions, I did get some of the I don't remember excuses but I have been able to fill in the gaps with some digging. Over all I think our R is going fine progress most days but we still have miles to go before I sleep.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

It sounds like your on the right track, and seems like you two are on the same page. Fact is, this just sucks, and it hurts and it takes a lot of hard work to R but it honestly sounds like you two are doing it. 

I completely get the random thoughts thing, while driving home usually I will have them and they are all over the place regarding the A. Sometimes I come home a little beat up feeling.

About the problem, I have no issue with telling you my story about this. For me I had low testosterone and that fixed mine for the most part, I still have issues from time to time usually a few days right before my next injection. Cialis does wonders though in that area. Talk to your Dr., you may want to check your T levels, and tell them you want to try Cialis or Viagra, my doctor was terrific about it. The only down side is the stuff is expensive as Hell, even with insurance. 

**This is important don't let this problem get out of hand, it's absolutely fixable and making love to your wife is critical right now, get to the Doc ASAP.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Great post, Kong. What you did by breaking the A down into it's component issues, is going to be a HUGE help in recovery, for both of you. It will give you greater insight into what caused the affair, and will help her to avoid triggers, and be able to help you with specific problems. It's really amazing how even the smallest thing can be a huge trigger, isn't it.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I actually started this thread because of something Betrayed 1 said. *He said that some of his questions to Empty Inside weren't meant to be answered but were a "punch in her face".* *And Empty Inside stated that when this happened, it caused her work less on the R. I* think that what happened with them was that they were at different stages of R, thus what was happening wasn't being productive or having the wanted effect. There is certainly a time when it's OK for the BS to "punch the WS in the face" ( I am speaking figuratively, of course) in order to vent his/her anger, and there is certainly a time when the WWS needs a punch in the face, to help him/her get over the affair. What seems to cause as much trouble as anything else, is knowing when to do what.


It wasn't a conscious "You've hurt my feelings and now I'm not going to work on our R" choice. It was a feeling of despair. We would have some really wonderful days and then, boom, without warning, those horrible (questions) would start again. I felt like we were starting at square one all over again. I was terrified that this was our "new normal" and that it would never get any better than this. H seemed more interested in punishing me than in reconciling with me. In IC and MC we, both, learned better ways to communicate our needs to one another. It's hard, but I love my husband and I know, now, that he truly loves me, too. I remember thinking in the early days of our R, that I was being "sentenced" to making this up to him for the rest of our lives. Now, I feel privileged, honored, grateful, happy, excited, and blessed to be sharing my life with him..... and getting to make this up to him..... well, all I can say is "Lucky Me!"  I love you, B1


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> *making love to your wife is critical right now*.



I am in complete agreement with you! <3


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Empty Inside said:


> It wasn't a conscious "You've hurt my feelings and now I'm not going to work on our R" choice. It was a feeling of despair. We would have some really wonderful days and then, boom, without warning, those horrible (questions) would start again. I felt like we were starting at square one all over again. I was terrified that this was our "new normal" and that it would never get any better than this. H seemed more interested in punishing me than in reconciling with me. In IC and MC we, both, learned better ways to communicate our needs to one another. It's hard, but I love my husband and I know, now, that he truly loves me, too. I remember thinking in the early days of our R, that I was being "sentenced" to making this up to him for the rest of our lives. Now, I feel privileged, honored, grateful, happy, excited, and blessed to be sharing my life with him..... and getting to make this up to him..... well, all I can say is "Lucky Me!"  I love you, B1


Oh, I understand that your shutting down wasn't a conscious decision, but the results were the same as if it had been. The point I was trying to make was that If B1 had known where you were at in Recovery, then maybe he could have toned it down a bit, at that particular time, in order for the R to progress. But you also have to admit that there are times when you NEED a punch in the face, just like there are times when you need a cuddle, or even a f**k! Like I said, it's the KNOWING what to do and when, that can make or break a R.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

EI, An example of GOOD timing, is when B1 told you he loved you and would stick by you, during R . Remember how good it made you feel? An example of BAD timing is what happened to my friend Mike. I met him at a BS workshop, in DC, that I went to after my Ex's suicide attempt. His wife Beth and his bf Ron had a brief (2 wk) PA. Mike found out about it from a neighbor who saw them (Beth and Ron) sucking face, and when Mike confronted her, she spilled everything. Mike left and didn't speak to either Beth or Ron for several months. Finally through the in-laws, Beth was able to convince Mike to meet with her to discus the affair. When they met, they agreed to attempt R, and things were going pretty good when Beth said' "I love you and want to say how sorry I am". But THEN she said, " and I talked to Ron and he wants to apologize too". BOOM!!! Really bad timing. Mike has not spoken to her since, and He told me a couple of weeks ago that he has filed.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Badblood said:


> EI, An example of GOOD timing, is when B1 told you he loved you and would stick by you, during R . Remember how good it made you feel?


*YES*



> An example of BAD timing is what happened to my friend Mike. His wife Beth and his bf Ron had a brief (2 wk) PA. Beth said' "I love you and want to say how sorry I am". But THEN she said, " and I talked to Ron and he wants to apologize too". BOOM!!! Really bad timing.


*EPIC FAIL*


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh, for real! Beth texted me , right after it happened, and she said that all she was trying to do was to sooth Mike's ego, by telling him that she wanted to be with him, instead of Ron, and that Both she and Ron were remorseful. But because of the betrayal, what Mike heard, was that she and Ron were still communicating behind his back. So now, he doesn't believe anything she says and has cut both of them out of his life. I feel sorry for Beth, and feel she really was trying, but unfortunately she is to blame that it came to this.


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## emptyinside882 (Jul 7, 2012)

Badblood said:


> My situation has changed Dramatically. My marriage is over, my ex wife has moved to another part of the country, and I am entering into a new and very different relationship from the ones I have known in the past. Emotionally, I have gotten over my anger, but not my skepticism. I'm still willing to trust, but only so far. My affection for my ex wife is , even after D, still very strong, but it's the affection for the person I thought her to be , not the person she hid from my eyes, nor the person she became after the cheating took place. I have found that I'm actually much more hopeful about my new love, than I thought I would be at this stage.This is as much due to my new GF's character and actions as it is to anything I've done. So, in the main, I've recovered from the affair.


Wow, I completely agree with you. I never thought about it like that. I am in the very early stage of divorce. I too have strong feelings for my wife, but as you said its feelings of the person I thought she was but she was hiding who she really is.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

We see this a lot , here on TAM. The BS will pine and cry over his/ her WS, and even Reconcile but rarely will they ever understand that the cheater isn't the same person that they married. It is a huge obstacle to overcome.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Badblood said:


> We see this a lot , here on TAM. The BS will pine and cry over his/ her WS, and even Reconcile but rarely will they ever understand that the cheater isn't the same person that they married. It is a huge obstacle to overcome.


Don't mean to side track this Badblood but...I am going to disagree with you on this one. Are you saying they changed for ever..or they never where who we thought they were in the first place. And do you consider this to be in ALL cases?


My 2 cents on this...Not in ALL cases. My wife became a different person during the A...true, more selfish and narcacistic, however after the A, and after the fog lifted she is the same person I married 28 years ago. A good hearted, passionate, kind, loving person, those characteristics have not changed. She wasn't this devious, selfish person deep inside just waiting to pounce.

She just broke, snapped, lost her mind temporarily, wigged out, whatever you want to call it. But this WS is NOT the real her, the real her was just pushed aside for a while. In the end, as of today, she is the same woman I married. Otherwise I would not be Reconciling with her. She made a bad choice, a really bad choice, but it is a choice that doesn't define who she is as a person and a wife. I hope I'm making sense here.


If she was this different, overall bad selfish person, then I would leave her. For 15mo. she may have been this different person, but that was not the REAL her, that was a different her, I agree. Now, the real her is back, this is the woman I married and the woman I am in love with.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

betrayed1 said:


> Don't mean to side track this Badblood but...I am going to disagree with you on this one. Are you saying they changed for ever..or they never where who we thought they were in the first place. And do you consider this to be in ALL cases?
> 
> 
> My 2 cents on this...Not in ALL cases. My wife became a different person during the A...true, more selfish and narcacistic, however after the A, and after the fog lifted she is the same person I married 28 years ago. A good hearted, passionate, kind, loving person, those characteristics have not changed. She wasn't this devious, selfish person deep inside just waiting to pounce.
> ...


I guess that is where we are different men, Pardner, because I am much more of a realist than you are. EI is not defined by the affair, but she is also not defined by the way she was , pre-affair. She is a different person in the same way YOU are a different person, because NOBODY can emerge from infidelity, unchanged. She wasn't some EI clone that cheated, it was her, your wife , who did it. I have a lot of respect for EI BECAUSE she owns what she did, and I think that you need to take off the rose-colored glasses and see her as she is now, not the pre-affair wife she used to be. The person who is EI now, is made up of all of her life experiences, Yes..including the affair, and IMHO this new EI is a better, more mature, finer woman than either the pre-affair model, or the affair one. Love and respect her for who she IS, not what she was.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I guess that is where we are different men, Pardner, because I am much more of a realist than you are. EI is not defined by the affair, but she is also not defined by the way she was , pre-affair. She is a different person in the same way YOU are a different person, because NOBODY can emerge from infidelity, unchanged. She wasn't some EI clone that cheated, it was her, your wife , who did it. I have a lot of respect for EI BECAUSE she owns what she did, and I think that you need to take off the rose-colored glasses and see her as she is now, not the pre-affair wife she used to be. The person who is EI now, is made up of all of her life experiences, Yes..including the affair, and IMHO this new EI is a better, more mature, finer woman than either the pre-affair model, or the affair one. Love and respect her for who she IS, not what she was.



Wow..you made me REALLY stop and think. I have and read and re-read what you wrote many times now. An absolute fact is that I am certainly not the same man I was pre-affair. I came out of this a different person. I guess I know she is still the kind hearted, loving person I always knew, her character is the same, but in some ways I guess she is different too. 

This experience has changed her, it's changed us, and our marriage. Mostly, believe it or not, for the better. SO....I am STILL, at this moment, processing what you have said and coming to terms with it. But as much as I don't like to admit it, I think your right. Rose colored glasses are off..let's see how it goes.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I guess that is where we are different men, Pardner, because I am much more of a realist than you are. EI is not defined by the affair, but she is also not defined by the way she was , pre-affair. She is a different person in the same way YOU are a different person, because NOBODY can emerge from infidelity, unchanged. She wasn't some EI clone that cheated, it was her, your wife , who did it. I have a lot of respect for EI BECAUSE she owns what she did, and I think that you need to take off the rose-colored glasses and see her as she is now, not the pre-affair wife she used to be. The person who is EI now, is made up of all of her life experiences, Yes..including the affair, and IMHO this new EI is a better, more mature, finer woman than either the pre-affair model, or the affair one. Love and respect her for who she IS, not what she was.


B1, I agree with Badblood on this one.... but I don't think that is a bad thing and I will expand on this later, but I have to get out of here now, I've got a counseling session, running late, what's new? But, I am different, B1 is different and only because we are, both, different are we able to look forward to the beautiful life that awaits us. Both of us stronger, wiser, more humble, more grateful, but fully aware of our potential weaknesses. More later.........


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BB, you and I share a no tolerance for infidelity which was born from of us catching our ex-wives in the act of being unfaithful or just having done the dirty deed. This is totally different than those BS who learned about it after the fact. Our timing was the sh!ttiest of them all.

You and I got HIT by the tsunami full blast.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Doesn't really faze me, Mori. I'm pretty good at getting around on a fastball.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BB, you may be a hardcore, battle tested marine but you bleed just like the rest of us so don't bullsh!t a bullsh!ter, ok? Just like me, you would have a good cry if your ex-wife were to kick the bucket right now. I am not, and will never be, ashamed of doing so for I loved her with all my heart and soul, just like you love your ex-wife. It is what makes us REAL MEN.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

If my ex went to that great loony-bin in the sky, I would be upset, yes, but I could still take it. What makes me a real man is my boyish charm, and Denzel Washington good looks, didn't you know that? WE reading Ambrose Bierce, are we?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Empty Inside said:


> It wasn't a conscious "You've hurt my feelings and now I'm not going to work on our R" choice. It was a feeling of despair. We would have some really wonderful days and then, boom, without warning, those horrible (questions) would start again. I felt like we were starting at square one all over again. I was terrified that this was our "new normal" and that it would never get any better than this. H seemed more interested in punishing me than in reconciling with me. In IC and MC we, both, learned better ways to communicate our needs to one another. It's hard, but I love my husband and I know, now, that he truly loves me, too. I remember thinking in the early days of our R, that I was being "sentenced" to making this up to him for the rest of our lives. Now, I feel privileged, honored, grateful, happy, excited, and blessed to be sharing my life with him..... and getting to make this up to him..... well, all I can say is "Lucky Me!"  I love you, B1


Wow, this post really stood out to me. We're at ten months out and my WS has this feeling of being punished. He even sent me lyrics recently to some stupid song about being tied to the whipping post? WTH?!? I was totally insulted because I feel like the one that has been punished for life by his bad behavior and lies. Interesting. Where were you in your R when you felt this way and how long did it take you to realize you were being granted another chance and was thankful for it. Just yesterday after I told him I was having a bad day with doubts he sent me a text are you gonna give me a second chance? I thought about it for awhile and texted back this is your second chance.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

morituri said:


> BB, you and I share a no tolerance for infidelity which was born from of us catching our ex-wives in the act of being unfaithful or just having done the dirty deed. This is totally different than those BS who learned about it after the fact. Our timing was the sh!ttiest of them all.
> 
> You and I got HIT by the tsunami full blast.


This is interesting. I sometimes wish I found out when it happened. Cause I found out nine years after the fact and it has caused all our family memories to be tainted and I feel as if I was robbed the better years of my life. WS's take on it is it happened nine years ago like that makes it easier to move on... :scratchhead:


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

He sent you "Whipping Post" lyrics?!?!!! Sorry, but that's just poor judgement on his part.

Timing. Timing indeed.

For me, I was blindsided with the betrayal of Regret214. I found her out. I had to "stop it". I was hurt. I was angry and I felt like the biggest schmuck on the planet.

A month after we decided to reconcile, things were pretty peaceful. We were talking more than we had in as long as I could remember. It was great stuff. I felt good.

Then, I got a bit angry and told her about it. I told her how much of a schmuck I felt and how every one of our friends who knew about this probably saw me the same.

And then we got peaceful again. Questions were answered honestly and things we good. I felt renewed. I knew that we would be okay. I felt it deep inside.

Then I got angry again. Because she spent hours at a time with him. Time that I would never get back. Time that she could have been here with ME and our children...she spent banging some f'ng guy.

So...I'm angry again. And I'm looking for peace in our marriage. I know I'll move through this, too. It just sometimes hurts.

A lot.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Yep, he tells me he feels like he is being punished. What does he think I feel like?!? I feel like I'm doomed to carry this with me until I die. I'll never trust completely again with any man I don't think. And I'll always wonder if I got everything... I'll always have that painful image in my head. I'm mad thinking about it now. He's a very selfish person and his mom has played into this poor him crap, too. I'm the bad guy cause I can't let it go. I'm thinking... I might bring this up with him... Tell him he insulted me. It's hard to bring up crap without it turning into an argument, though. Maybe if I talk about it over dinner when we go out, that seems to make things seem safer. More opportunities to argue at home when we're alone. I think he needs to realize he should be thankful for the chance I've given him instead of seeing my pain as punishment.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> I think he needs to realize he should be thankful for the chance I've given him instead of seeing my pain as punishment.


Yes.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Yep, he tells me he feels like he is being punished. What does he think I feel like?!? I feel like I'm doomed to carry this with me until I die. I'll never trust completely again with any man I don't think. And I'll always wonder if I got everything... I'll always have that painful image in my head. I'm mad thinking about it now. He's a very selfish person and his mom has played into this poor him crap, too. I'm the bad guy cause I can't let it go. I'm thinking... I might bring this up with him... Tell him he insulted me. It's hard to bring up crap without it turning into an argument, though. Maybe if I talk about it over dinner when we go out, that seems to make things seem safer. More opportunities to argue at home when we're alone. I think he needs to realize he should be thankful for the chance I've given him instead of seeing my pain as punishment.


Your WH seems to feel that the time for punishment should be past, while you don't. This is OK. One of the things about timing is that the BS and WS are almost always at different places in the R. What you need to convey to him is that you are still in the anger phase, and will sometimes NEED to lash out . If he is a truly remorseful WS, he will try to understand, if not, then you know he still hasn't accepted responsibility for his actions.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Hurtingbadly, I don't remember when your D-day was, how long has it been since you found out about the cheating? OH, Ok , I just re0read your post. It's been 10 months, this isn't nearly enough time for him to be complaining.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Badblood said:


> WE reading Ambrose Bierce, are we?


Yes we are.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Hurtingbadly, I don't remember when your D-day was, how long has it been since you found out about the cheating? OH, Ok , I just re0read your post. It's been 10 months, this isn't nearly enough time for him to be complaining.


He complained from the beginning. He hasn't made anything easy for me, especially when I was in fulltime question mode. I've gotten about as much out of him as he is obviously gonna give me so that has backed off. Now if I trigger or get upset he takes it as punishment, like I'm never gonna let this go... He does half the work he needs to do, the other half not so much. He's great if I act OK.


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

I don't think much about timing. It all happened how it had to happen and she and I both ended up where we are. It's not like I can take Mistress Fate to court for damages, do you get my drift? But I'm happy enough in my space and that's what counts.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> He complained from the beginning. He hasn't made anything easy for me, especially when I was in fulltime question mode. I've gotten about as much out of him as he is obviously gonna give me so that has backed off. Now if I trigger or get upset he takes it as punishment, like I'm never gonna let this go... He does half the work he needs to do, the other half not so much. He's great if I act OK.


He does seem to feel that he is entitled to better , more lenient treatment, and you still have a lot of resentment, so I'm questioning if R is working for you, because you seem to be at loggerheads. So do YOU think he is doing enough to keep the marriage together?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

lascarx said:


> I don't think much about timing. It all happened how it had to happen and she and I both ended up where we are. It's not like I can take Mistress Fate to court for damages, do you get my drift? But I'm happy enough in my space and that's what counts.


Well, I'm glad you're happy, but I don't agree with being fatalistic or lazy about relationships. Things just don't happen because they are meant to, they are allowed to happen through conscious choice and neglect.


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Things just don't happen because they are meant to, they are allowed to happen through conscious choice and neglect.


Of course it takes a choice. But it's not like anything I could have done would have made anything turn out differently. I wasn't asked my opinion when she made her choices. And me fussing about it now won't do any good either, barn is pretty well burned down.

So I take care of mine and leave hers to her. That which we made in common, we still have to tend together, but they'll be old enough to look after themselves soon enough.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Then I fail to see why you came on this thread.


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

I'll put it a different way. My point of view is that until you have faith in your own ability to decide and move forward, you'll get nowhere. For the betrayed spouse, I think recovery happens when you decide to make it happen, and getting the heebie-jeebies about making wrong decisions or bad timing will run you in circles forever. Timing? There was no good or bad timing about the day I caught her, and that was the only thing of any real importance that happened in my case. There were fits and starts along the way but I set my cap on what to do, and doing it rather than fretting about it kept me from falling back into the pit. That's about the only advice I'd give anyone now.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

lascarx said:


> I'll put it a different way. My point of view is that until you have faith in your own ability to decide and move forward, you'll get nowhere. For the betrayed spouse, I think recovery happens when you decide to make it happen, and getting the heebie-jeebies about making wrong decisions or bad timing will run you in circles forever. Timing? There was no good or bad timing about the day I caught her, and that was the only thing of any real importance that happened in my case. There were fits and starts along the way but I set my cap on what to do, and doing it rather than fretting about it kept me from falling back into the pit. That's about the only advice I'd give anyone now.


Sorry but you're missing my point. I'm not talking about the decision to R or D or anything to do with the affair per se, but how and when to address issues. Look at my examples. If B1 had stayed in "punishment mode', would they be as far along in recovery as they are? The timing I'm talking about is when to do what, and applies to BOTH WS and BS


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Sorry but you're missing my point. I'm not talking about the decision to R or D or anything to do with the affair per se, but how and when to address issues. Look at my examples. If B1 had stayed in "punishment mode', would they be as far along in recovery as they are? The timing I'm talking about is when to do what, and applies to BOTH WS and BS


No, I didn't miss your point. I was saying that for me, there wasn't any question about when to do something. There was only a what to do in the immediate, and most important, not doubting that it was the right thing to do. About punishment? I was very angry, but looking back, I think I sensed from the start that punishment was useless, what I had to do was to get her up on her feet and onto the path she wanted to take anyway. It wasn't pleasant in its doing, and it may have seemed like punishment if looking in from without, but it was the right thing and finally got all settled.

Other folks will have their own ways through it, but from what I've seen, self-doubt and fear of action is what paralyzes too many of those who've been betrayed. Come to think of it, is there really any such thing as bad timing? Most often it seems to be a way of trying to self-console for bad fallout. Better to take it on the chin and stand by your decisions, I think.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

lascarx said:


> No, I didn't miss your point. I was saying that for me, there wasn't any question about when to do something. There was only a what to do in the immediate, and most important, not doubting that it was the right thing to do. About punishment? I was very angry, but looking back, I think I sensed from the start that punishment was useless, what I had to do was to get her up on her feet and onto the path she wanted to take anyway. It wasn't pleasant in its doing, and it may have seemed like punishment if looking in from without, but it was the right thing and finally got all settled.
> 
> Other folks will have their own ways through it, but from what I've seen, self-doubt and fear of action is what paralyzes too many of those who've been betrayed. Come to think of it, is there really any such thing bad timing? Most often it seems to be a way of trying to self-console for bad fallout. Better to take it on the chin and stand by your decisions, I think.


 Making unilateral decisions doesn't help, if the other person isn't on board with it, either. I understand what you're saying and that is pretty much how my situation played out. I made the decisions, because she was in no mental state to decide anything. But in most situations, there has to be some kind of "meeting of the minds" for any true R to happen, and this involves communicating to the other person what issues are troubling you the most, and dealing with each issue, when it is appropriate or necessary to do so.


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

I still think it takes setting your cap, knowing your direction to start with. Look at what's said here:



Badblood said:


> An example of BAD timing is what happened to my friend Mike. I met him at a BS workshop, in DC, that I went to after my Ex's suicide attempt. His wife Beth and his bf Ron had a brief (2 wk) PA. Mike found out about it from a neighbor who saw them (Beth and Ron) sucking face, and when Mike confronted her, she spilled everything. Mike left and didn't speak to either Beth or Ron for several months. Finally through the in-laws, Beth was able to convince Mike to meet with her to discus the affair. When they met, they agreed to attempt R, and things were going pretty good when Beth said' "I love you and want to say how sorry I am". But THEN she said, " and I talked to Ron and he wants to apologize too". BOOM!!! Really bad timing. Mike has not spoken to her since, and He told me a couple of weeks ago that he has filed.


Mike probably made the right decision in the end, but she pushed him there, and getting pushed is the wrong way, is what I think. If I had made the decision to make up with mine, and she had let loose with a blooper like that, it wouldn't have changed my mind about making up, because I would've gone in with my eyes open to start with. I'd already know that she had enough of a short-circuit such that she could lie to my face and that would mean she could do or say anything at all. So if I want to keep married, I have to accept the possibility of there being a credibility gap, maybe forever, do you get my drift? When you do things of your own free will and believe in your own judgement, you can't get hurt because you're the one holding your own cards. That's why I don't think timing matters much.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Apparently you and I are very different in our outlooks. I do not believe in "going with the flow", or Laissez Faire. I am much more pro-active and demanding than that. In Mike's situation, he had not made any decision to R or D, so , Yes, the timing of Beth's remark could not have been worse. Had he already made his decision, then I'm sure he would have re-acted differently.


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Apparently you and I are very different in our outlooks. I do not believe in "going with the flow", or Laissez Faire.


You don't go with "the" flow.

You go with YOUR flow. That means you say where it starts and you say in what direction it runs.



Badblood said:


> In Mike's situation, he had not made any decision to R or D, so , Yes, the timing of Beth's remark could not have been worse. Had he already made his decision, then I'm sure he would have re-acted differently.


Her remarks shouldn't have been allowed to guide the decision. He should have walked in knowing what he wanted to do and then have done it come perdition or the Flood. If one dumb blooper remark scotched the whole thing before it even started, well, I say he wasn't really of a mind to go ahead with it anyway. Just my two bits.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I hope that attitude has worked out for you, but I think that unilateral actions made without the cooperation of the other party are usually unsuccessful. Did you read what I said? I clearly said that HE HAD NOT MADE UP HIS MIND. Had he already made his decision, one way or the other, then her remark wouldn't have swayed him , one way or the other. It was her remark coming when it did, immediately after he agreed to discus the issue , that swayed him towards divorce. this is what HE told me and I have no reason to doubt Mike. I found him to be an honest and straightforward guy. We arent' going to agree, are we?


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