# My boyfriend found out about a past guy who he hates



## LonnieHere

I have a major problem and need some advice from people in solid relationships please.

My boyfriend and I have been together for over a year and are soul mates. i really believe that. He just found out that before we got serious i saw this other guy a few times. That guy amounted to nothing and i realized that soon enough. Anyway, my boyfriend is now accusing me of cheating. Also and to make matters worse the other guy is somebody he absolutely detests. He wants to know details and stuff 

Anyway things got heated and he left a little while ago. What can i say when he gets back?


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## PBear

Did your boyfriend think you were serious at the time? How long had you been dating when you saw this other guy? 

If you want real help, you'll have to give real details.

C


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## staarz21

Did you cheat? Did this happen while you were dating your current boyfriend? 

1. Some men get incredibly mad/jealous/insecure about past men we've slept with. Some men could care less.

2. Your b/f already hates this dude.

3. He can't be that mad (like ending the relationship) unless you in fact cheated. If he is wanting to end the relationship due to something you did BEFORE you dated him, he is doing you a favor.


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## ConanHub

First off... does "seeing" the other guy a few times mean sex? If so, were you having sex with your now boyfriend? If you were letting both men have your body and you kept it a secret from either of them, that could be considered cheating. Need to know that.

Secondly, my wife, who I have been with for 22 years had an ex that I detested. Still is causing some problems to this day. I can tell you some tips for overcoming that worked for us but you need to give a sexual timeline of your current boyfriend and this other guy. Very important.


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## Jellybeans

How did he find out? 

Did you ever tell him you were with this guy previously?


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## JCD

Well, guys CAN be that obsessive and insecure even if they hadn't had sex.

For example, Rose McGowan can now safely lose my number. Something like Marilyn Manson just doesn't wash off, no matter how many showers you take.

So the fact his 'precious little flower' may have given a small piece of her heart and affection (never mind her body) to someone whom he sees as a mental, moral and social incompetent with NO redeeming features will have him questioning HER judgment.

If she can pick THAT loser, it calls her choice of HIM into question.

Just giving you the mind set. 

I would lead with that story: he was a brief fling and you shut it down quickly because you saw exactly what kind of person he was, but it took a few dates to figure this out because, hey, guys try to impress girls so he acts different around them.

BUT...a timeline is either your best friend...or your worst enemy. You can figure out what I mean.


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## ConanHub

JCD said:


> Well, guys CAN be that obsessive and insecure even if they hadn't had sex.
> 
> For example, Rose McGowan can now safely lose my number. Something like Marilyn Manson just doesn't wash off, no matter how many showers you take.
> 
> So the fact his 'precious little flower' may have given a small piece of her heart and affection (never mind her body) to someone whom he sees as a mental, moral and social incompetent with NO redeeming features will have him questioning HER judgment.
> 
> If she can pick THAT loser, it calls her choice of HIM into question.
> 
> Just giving you the mind set.
> 
> I would lead with that story: he was a brief fling and you shut it down quickly because you saw exactly what kind of person he was, but it took a few dates to figure this out because, hey, guys try to impress girls so he acts different around them.
> 
> BUT...a timeline is either your best friend...or your worst enemy. You can figure out what I mean.


I agree but if she was having sex with both of them during her dating of her current BF, then that is a bigger can of worms.


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## LonnieHere

OK so to answer some of your questions.

I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. The other guy just sort of happened. 

They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer. I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out. Sucks.


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## LonnieHere

and yeah to JCD who said "how can i pick that loser". That is for absolute sure how my guy feels and all the bad that goes with it like my guy said i was just another notch for the other guy


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## staarz21

So you were dating someone and had sex with someone completely different. Did your now guy think you two were exclusive? If so, he's right, you did cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonnieHere

i know it sounds like a crappy thing to do but it was kind of early and we didn't say we were exclusive (actually we've never said that we just became exclusive if that makes sense) So it's not really cheating and it's not like i was intimate with both when i was with the other guy


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## F-102

For now, let him cool down and don't try to follow him and try to force him to talk to you...he'll talk when he's ready.

And be ready for some questions that you won't like answering, most of all: "WHY?"


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## bandit.45

LonnieHere said:


> OK so to answer some of your questions.
> 
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. *I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. *
> 
> *Because he is the stable, boring but dependable guy that is good marriage material.*
> 
> The other guy just sort of happened.
> 
> *The stud, womanizing bad boy who got you hot and bothered.... No good for marriage but fun in the sack. *
> 
> They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. *He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer. *I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out. Sucks.


He's going to break up with you unless you show him he is the more desirable male sexually... How you do that is a big problem.


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## Tobyboy

How long did you date the other guy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

LonnieHere said:


> OK so to answer some of your questions.
> 
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. The other guy just sort of happened.
> 
> They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer. I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out. Sucks.


Right, so you were making the good guy wait, while you gave up everything to a guy he hates. Sorry but for me that would be a deal breaker. Time to hit the road.


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## LonnieHere

He just called. He's not coming home tonite said he is going to stay with his buddy. He didn't even sound angry now more like sad or something. I said he can have whatever space he needs. He wanted details on the other guy but i said we shouldn't talk about this stuff on the phone.

To Tobyboy, it was about a couple of weeks and it wasn't even really dating. I was an idiot


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## WorkingOnMe

bandit.45 said:


> He's going to break up with you unless you show him he is the more desirable male sexually... How you do that is a big problem.


I agree with your points. I also don't think it's possible for her to show him that he's the more desirable male sexually.


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## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> I agree with your points. I also don't think it's possible for her to show him that he's the more desirable male sexually.


Yep.

This one's over.


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## WorkingOnMe

LonnieHere said:


> I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right.


Hmm, so this is what you call doing it right? I'll bet the other guy sure felt like you were doing it right. Your boyfriend, not so much.



LonnieHere said:


> We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate.


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## treyvion

WorkingOnMe said:


> Right, so you were making the good guy wait, while you gave up everything to a guy he hates. Sorry but for me that would be a deal breaker. Time to hit the road.


For some reason I thought he said "could be a deal breaker", yes it would truly be a deal breaker. No way you could recover from that one.


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## Tobyboy

LonnieHere said:


> He just called. He's not coming home tonite said he is going to stay with his buddy. He didn't even sound angry now more like sad or something. I said he can have whatever space he needs. He wanted details on the other guy but i said we shouldn't talk about this stuff on the phone.
> 
> To Tobyboy, it was about a couple of weeks and it wasn't even really dating. I was an idiot


If it wasn't really dating....then what would you call it? Cheating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Tobyboy said:


> If it wasn't really dating....then what would you call it? Cheating?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now now... they arent married, she's here for help. Lets be nice.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

WorkingOnMe said:


> Right, so you were making the good guy wait, while you gave up everything to a guy he hates. Sorry but for me that would be a deal breaker. Time to hit the road.


I have to agree with this. OP, if we were dating but hadn't had sex because you wanted to "do it the right way" ... and then in the meantime you went and had sex with this other guy (who I happen to loath) ... that would bother me a great deal. So ... I was worth NOT having sex with but this other guy wasn't so you went ahead and had sex with him. :scratchhead: Yeah, I know ... stuff happens and it isn't always logical ... but even if it isn't technically cheating, I would feel cheated and hurt. It would be difficult for me to accept that I was truly your "soul mate."


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## happi_g_more2

whether it was cheating or not (i dont think it was), you boned your boyfriends nemesis. I dont predict good things here. I couldnt walk around with a girl knowing that at guy I cant stand fvcked her. Seeing him every day (or week or month) would just suck. Not trying to preach or get my high horse, but this is the exact reason why people shouldnt be so loose with their morals when it comes to sex. You bone one guy cause it "just happened", but you saved the guy you really like so that you could "do it right". How'd that turn out for ya.


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## larry.gray

Ask yourself if you could respect him if he did come back after this? I suspect you'll always view him as a wimp if he does.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Did you actually tell him you wanted to wait to have sex because you wanted to do it right ... or was this just what you were thinking?

When this all came into the open, did you tell your bf that you weren't "really dating" this other guy?


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## bandit.45

Lonnie?


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## larry.gray

bandit.45 said:


> Lonnie?


It can be a male or female name:

Lonnie is a very popular first name for men (#244 out of 1220) but an uncommon surname or last name for all people (1990 U.S. Census).


Lonnie is a very popular first name for women (#1336 out of 4276) but an uncommon surname or last name for all people (1990 U.S. Census).


Lonnie - meaning of Lonnie name (girl)


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## RClawson

Lonnie,

Speaking from personal experience in a very similar situation my advice would be that you let him know you are moving on. If he is having this difficult of a time with it he will never let it go IMHO.

If he does want to work it out you lay it out on the table with him now, be 100% honest with everything he wants to know and anything else you may feel that is pertinent to the conversation. After that if he wants to proceed ahead then he is to never ever bring it up again because you will not discuss it.


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## bandit.45

Just wondering where she went.


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## larry.gray

bandit.45 said:


> Just wondering where she went.


Gotcha. I was wondering if you were questioning the name because every Lonnie I've known was a dude.


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## sandc

Chalk it up as a lesson learned. Best of luck.


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## JCD

Tobyboy said:


> If it wasn't really dating....then what would you call it? Cheating?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They weren't exclusive.

This isn't about 'cheating'. It is about how she dual dated (NO ONE likes that, man or woman...though it isn't technically cheating), that she made her 'main' boy friend jump through a dozen hoops for a taste while she dropped her panties for the guy he thought was a scumbag within a week or so, and that she didn't tell him in a timely manner...if at all since she didn't say how she was discovered.


This falls under that 'important information BF wants to know' thing...and it's also why women HATE HATE HATE the idea of having their sexual past picked over: to avoid drama like this.

For whatever reason, women's judgment can be called into question over some short term idiotic sex encounter which overrides a year of 'good' relationship...but men aren't held to the same standard.

Other guy got the goodies for free while the 'important' relationship had to pay for every step of the way. Now he is obsessed with this guy's reputation and how he could 'screw the sense' out of your head...which is probably what the details talk is about.


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## JCD

happi_g_more2 said:


> whether it was cheating or not (i dont think it was), you boned your boyfriends nemesis. I dont predict good things here. I couldnt walk around with a girl knowing that at guy I cant stand fvcked her. Seeing him every day (or week or month) would just suck. Not trying to preach or get my high horse, but this is the exact reason why people shouldnt be so loose with their morals when it comes to sex. You bone one guy cause it "just happened", but you saved the guy you really like so that you could "do it right". How'd that turn out for ya.


And that is one of the major issues in the back of his mind.

This lazy statement 'it just happened', some mystical alignment in the stars, the right amount of alcohol and smarmy chatter and POOF, you'll have sex with someone.

How does your boyfriend know it won't 'just happen again'? Because Lonnie, you are throwing around some terms which make no sense to me.

IF you were such tight soul mates, you'd have given it up to your BF first. IF you were soul mates, you wouldn't have even looked at the other guy, much less had sex with him.

The other thing you said was you KNEW he was a womanizer and a person of low morals. So you SLEPT with a known womanizer... So you don't have the 'I thought he was different' excuse. What you probably meant was 'I thought you could change him'. And if you found you had a 'spark' with this loser or found out he was 'different', you'd be with him instead of your boyfriend.

So why is your current BF supposed to feel all 'soul mate' like if you were still shopping when you had already picked him up and put him in your basket?

And not to put too fine a point on it, but you are still wandering around near this guy. It's going to be a thorn in his side as long as you are around this guy.

Again, I am not trying to pile onto you. I am trying to explain how he feels. You need to explain to him how what he is feeling, while valid TO HIM, is not how YOU feel.


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## JCD

larry.gray said:


> Gotcha. I was wondering if you were questioning the name because every Lonnie I've known was a dude.


It has only been two days. Patience. Some of us don't LIVE on TAM...and some of the comments may have upset her.


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## Convection

Lonnie, I recommend you read the discussion on this thread, it has a lot of similarities to your situation, so you can see how people feel:

If You Were Courting A Woman You Were Keen On

Since you say he just found out, I suspect your boyfriend feels he would have liked to know about this at the time, so he would have had the option whether or not to continue with you. And he feels like since you didn't disclose, he didn't have that option back then. He probably feels strung along - you know, trying to do right by you, and you threw it out to some loser you didn't care about.

It doesn't have to be cheating, and if you weren't clearly exclusive, you didn't necessarily owe him that knowledge. But I bet that's how he feels.

The fact that it is a guy he hates is only detail. It would 10x worse if it were his best friend.


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## AliceA

I had a guy ask if he should drop his piece of @rse he had on the side after we were a few dates in. That was the deciding factor for me that he wasn't worth my time. I told him to keep her.

The point is, there are people like me who simply do not date two people at once. The word "exclusive" is not a word we would bother using as it is simply the ONLY way we operate. Anything else is considered cheating. If you saw it as cheating, I would think you had a chance to make amends, but you and your BF have very different fundamental values. It's will be very hard for you to understand why he has such a problem with it and I think he would therefore struggle to see you as trustworthy.


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## Jellybeans

How did he find out, Lonnie? 

And, do they work together?


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## lifeistooshort

Every time I see "soul mate" I want to barf. Now that I've gotten that off my chest, I would think one of the big issues is that you were sleeping with other guy and not him. Translation: other guy got you hotter.

When I met my hb I wasn't interested in "doing it right". I just wanted to do him.

I'm sure the men will correct me if I'm wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Sorry Lonnie. You made a really bad call. If you had been done letting a scummy womanizer use you like a cheap piece of ass and been fully upfront with your now BF about your mistake, I would have some advice. I have been in your BFs shoes. I really loved a girl in high-school and the attraction was mutual. We had great chemistry and could have been soul mates.

She decided to have sex with a true piece of sh!t. I was done with her and never looked back.

She was hugely remorseful and did e everything in her power to get me back. To this day, she regrets her decision.

I feel for you but even if it wasn't technically cheating, it was a super crappy and disrespectful thing to do to a Guy who you were dating and obviously you didn't tell him while you were dating him that you were getting banged by a scumbag. You never even kissed your man in that two week period?

If you were kissing scum boy and very probably giving him oral sex and then letting your man take you out and romance you and kiss you, well.... can you start to get why he is so pissed off?

I wouldn't want to put my lips where another man had recently had his, much less, scum boy's penis.

Don't know if he is gonna get over this. I didn't
If you really value this man, you will want to behave like a remorseful cheater. You will want to look up some advice on the CWI threads and pull out all the stops.

Or you could keep insisting that he see it your way and be right in your own justification and lose your relationship.

Even if he comes back without you acting like a remorseful cheater, he will not be the same. That is probably your best shot at healing your relationship and have no doubt, cheater or not, YOU MADE A BAD DECISION AND HARMED YOUR RELATIONSHIP. Hope the best for you. I think that is the best advice that I can give.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

ConanHub said:


> If you had been done letting a scummy womanizer use you like a cheap piece of ass *and been fully upfront with your now BF* about your mistake, I would have some advice.


HOW did he find out? Did she tell him? I am so confused.


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## DoF

LonnieHere said:


> OK so to answer some of your questions.
> 
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. The other guy just sort of happened.
> 
> They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer. I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out. Sucks.


So let me get this straight.

You took your time to get to know your current boyfriend (no intimacy etc) YET you slept with this scum around the same time?

Yeah, that's not cool at all.



WorkingOnMe said:


> Right, so you were making the good guy wait, while you gave up everything to a guy he hates. Sorry but for me that would be a deal breaker. Time to hit the road.


Yep, that it REALLY messed up. It makes him think that OP was weak and vulnerable........ignorant. 

That would be a deal breaker for me as well. No thanks.

I don't have a problem if a woman wants to date around etc. But if you are giving off a certain image to me while we are dating and then I find out you have been quite opposite with another male (especially ones I know/hate).......ohh hell no, that's really messed up. Basically I would assume that everything we have been thru = acting/show.

OP, best thing you can do right now is just apologize to your current BF and express how stupid you were and how bad you feel about the whole situation (assuming that's even the case of course).

I really hope you learned from all this....


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## ScarletBegonias

Eh,Lonnie hon,you f**ked up.Deal with it.Had this guy really been your "soul mate" things wouldn't be the way they are right now.Time to let him go.
Also for future reference,when you're dual dating or casually dating around honesty is the best policy.Do the men a favor and tell them "hey I'm not ready for an exclusive relationship.I want to spread it around before I grow up and determine what I want in life."


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## JCD

lifeistooshort said:


> Every time I see "soul mate" I want to barf. Now that I've gotten that off my chest, I would think one of the big issues is that you were sleeping with other guy and not him. Translation: other guy got you hotter.
> 
> When I met my hb I wasn't interested in "doing it right". I just wanted to do him.
> 
> I'm sure the men will correct me if I'm wrong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BF thought he was special. She probably told him he was.

Now he finds out how 'special' he was. It didn't work out with some loser...so she put out to him finally.

yay!


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## DoF

ScarletBegonias said:


> Eh,Lonnie hon,you f**ked up.Deal with it.Had this guy really been your "soul mate" things wouldn't be the way they are right now.Time to let him go.
> Also for future reference,when you're dual dating or casually dating around honesty is the best policy.Do the men a favor and tell them "hey I'm not ready for an exclusive relationship.I want to *spread it around* before I grow up and determine what I want in life."


Don't use those exact words OP. That will make most decent man running for the hills......


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## JCD

DoF said:


> You should never EVER discuss your past relationship with your boyfriend.
> 
> ESPECIALLY THE DETAILS
> 
> What happened BEFORE you 2 were together is none of his business and ANYTHING you say will hurt him greatly.
> 
> When I was younger I used to dwell on my wife's previous relationships as well, but as I matured I figured out how stupid I was for even asking (and my wife also learned that sharing that info did nothing but damage).
> 
> ladies, do NOT talk go your SO about details of past relationships!!!


Huh.

So what happens if the POS throws that fact into his face later in life? "Hey, I was doing your girl while you were still dating her."

THAT is going to not hurt at all. We've seen a number of threads where a couple had info like this come up years later and blow up their relationships.

Not saying you are wrong...but you aren't necessarily right either. There are no good answers here.


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## Jellybeans

ScarletBegonias said:


> Eh,Lonnie hon,you f**ked up.Deal with it.Had this guy really been your "soul mate" things wouldn't be the way they are right now.Time to let him go.


:iagree:

I think, in the beginning, when you meet someone you REALLY REALLY REALLY like, sleeping with someone else isn't even going to cross your mind. It sounds like you were not totally sold on your boyfriend.


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## NextTimeAround

Lonnie, I was in your bf / soul mate's situation but as a woman. So let's look at what the mirror image for women looks like:

1. He makes you go dutch while he is happy to pay for the full date with the person he decided ultimately "was not right for him" and he "didn't like all that much" but still wanted to keep her around as just a friend.

2. He left me at the bus stop at the end of dates, neither waiting to ensure that I safely get on nor paying the bus fare. For her, he paid her taxi fares to and from and later on admitted, a couple of times when they out to bars when he knew she was still looking for someone else (the female equivalent for a womaniser?).

3. He paid the bar tabs for her and her friends on a couple of occasions. He embarrassed me in front of my friends by wandering away from the table. He mentioned to me that he wanted to make sure that I was not with him for his money just one week after he closed a 3 figure bar tab for her and her friends and she couldn't return a kiss to him. AND after he enjoyed a drink from the first round. _I DO NOT LET HIM FORGET THIS._

4. He gets testy about having to buy you drink when you're at happy hour, but then gets pissy when he sees that someone else offers instead. At the same time, he doesn't seem to be fussed that his "just friends" friend is dating another guy AND tells him that the other guy is better then he in bed. _Maybe your soul mate is wondering if you were putting up with that kind of shenanigans as well._

5. Your guy may wonder what and how much information you disclosed to the other guy. I know from seeing the messaging between them that they talked about me...... a lot. She also advised him to drop me. So if you think your guy's imagination is running wild, it is not. These things do happen.

My fiance works very hard to make amends even 3 years later. But it's hard to forget and when he gets even the least bit testy with me, he has to deal with a maelstrom of emotions, reminding me that I'm the better person and that he is sorry for what he has done. At least now when we're out with my friends, he can't wait to buy the rounds.

Lonnie, if you manage to stay with your guy, you will need to show complete transparency when it comes to dealing other men even those with whom you see yourself as "just friends."

As for what else you will need to do in order to reassure him, I think the men here will know better than me.


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## ScarletBegonias

DoF said:


> Don't use those exact words OP. That will make most decent man running for the hills......


tongue in cheek my dear.Proper speech should resemble, "For the sake of openness I want you to be aware I'm not ready to be exclusive at this time in my life."


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## DoF

I edited my post as I read that she was dating him at the same time.



JCD said:


> Huh.
> 
> So what happens if the POS throws that fact into his face later in life? "Hey, I was doing your girl while you were still dating her."


Who cares. I would ignore him. I don't feed stupidity or idiots. And their opinion is usually beneath dirt to me.



JCD said:


> THAT is going to not hurt at all. We've seen a number of threads where a couple had info like this come up years later and blow up their relationships.
> 
> Not saying you are wrong...but you aren't necessarily right either. There are no good answers here.


OP simply needs to learn from this and apologize. She was wrong to treat one relationship one way and the other completely opposite. 

But what I said originally stands. Woman should NOT share any details of past relationship unless we are talking STDs or other things that her partner has a right to know.


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## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think, in the beginning, when you meet someone you REALLY REALLY REALLY like, sleeping with someone else isn't even going to cross your mind. It sounds like you were not totally sold on your boyfriend.


Good point


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## DoF

ScarletBegonias said:


> tongue in cheek my dear.Proper speech should resemble, "For the sake of openness I want you to be aware I'm not ready to be exclusive at this time in my life."


I understand, I think you worded it was a bit off (no big deal)


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## Hicks

You will have a tough time keeping your relationship due to this.

While you think of it as a stupid mistake, he thinks of it as a character issue. In that your character includes pretending to be chaste when in reality you are loose. Pretending to like quality men when in reality you like dirt bags.

And yes, this is important to men.

You were told that as woman you can have everything you want. But you can't.

Now, you have a right to not tell him. But don't lie in any way. Just tell him that you are not going to discuss it. And that if he wants to leave you over you not telling that he has every right to. And respect that this could very well cause him to break it off with you. 

Telling him the details will be way worse. There is no recovering from that for a man. And lieing to him will be way worse. By the time he finds out the truth which he will constantly dig for, kids could be involved.


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## Jellybeans

Hicks said:


> You were told that as woman you can have everything you want. But you can't.


What? :scratchhead:


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## ScarletBegonias

DoF said:


> I understand, I think you worded it was a bit off (no big deal)


I realize that.It wasn't meant to be taken literally.


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## DoF

ScarletBegonias said:


> I realize that.It wasn't meant to be taken literally.


I know, just making sure OP doesn't take it/use it literally (hey, you never know).

:scratchhead:


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## JCD

DoF said:


> Who cares. I would ignore him. I don't feed stupidity or idiots. And their opinion is usually beneath dirt to me.


That works for you. Other men would probably ask the question of the SO...and not be happy with the answers he gets.



> OP simply needs to learn from this and apologize. She was wrong to treat one relationship one way and the other completely opposite.
> 
> But what I said originally stands. Woman should NOT share any details of past relationship unless we are talking STDs or other things that her partner has a right to know.



Eh. Yes, but. I agree with you and any man stupid enough to ask gets all the heart ache he deserves. BUT...I can easily see situations where a woman owes her SO a heads up.

For example: we had this one thread where the woman worked late night shifts (not busy) and was married. She was a close friend to one of her male co-workers. They were lab techs in a hospital, so there were LOTS of empty rooms with beds all over the place.

Her husband found out in the SHORT window between her last LTR and him, she had had sex with this man and was still in close private contact...and she hadn't bothered to tell him.

He felt blindsided by this and lacked trust. And I am not sure that he is unjustified in feeling that way. She made the issue a problem by her reticence. She specifically hid it from him.

Now it was out and her marriage was suffering as a result. 

So...I can see a downside too. I get where you are coming from...but there are landmines out there too.


----------



## ConanHub

Jellybeans said:


> What? :scratchhead:


I think he means an "entitlement " attitude. Maybe she thought she could have her man romance her while giving scumbag a shot as well.

Problem is, scumbag just wanted a meathole witch she became while not telling her man. I seriously doubt her BF even knew she was thinking about another man while they were dating.

She played a crappy game and hurt her BF. I am quite certain this can be construed as cheating.

If she was dating two guys at the same time and keeping it secret from her man, then it absolutely was cheating, no doubt. Started out EA then for two weeks went physical all the while dating her faithful BF.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alexm

JCD said:


> They weren't exclusive.
> 
> This isn't about 'cheating'. It is about how she dual dated (NO ONE likes that, man or woman...though it isn't technically cheating), that she made her 'main' boy friend jump through a dozen hoops for a taste while she dropped her panties for the guy he thought was a scumbag within a week or so, and that she didn't tell him in a timely manner...if at all since she didn't


Oh god, the dual dating thing. What a mistake it always ends up being when you end up falling for one of them.

It's such a ****y way to start a relationship, imo. Rarely ends well.

There's nothing wrong with dating around, having some fun, not being serious, etc. but why anybody needs two (or more) people on the go at the same time is beyond me - even if you have no intentions of getting serious.

As for the "it isn't cheating" bit - yes, yes it is. If the other person does not know you are doing it. Poor guy probably thought he was the only one OP was seeing at the time, and he was all ready for a proper relationship. You don't have to say the word "exclusive" for one party to think it is. This isn't 1950's high school where you get your girl to wear your jacket because you're "going steady". Nowadays, it is an assumption that when two people are seeing each other - no matter how casually - that they are exclusive, unless otherwise said.

I can see how it could be justified IF there was no sexual activity with either partner, however. If you go out on a few dates with each guy (to the movies, a museum, whatever) and you decide you're a better fit with one of them, so be it. I could wrap my mind around that if that happened to me. But as soon as it becomes intimate - even kissing - no thanks.

And even then, why does anybody feel the need to say yes to going out on a date if you have intentions of going on a second (or third or fourth) date with somebody you've already gone out with before this person asked you? Just say "no thanks, I'm seeing someone right now. If it doesn't work out, I'll let you know." Are people so short on self-esteem that they feel the need to not say no, "just in case"?

As far as having sex with one, or both of them, that I will never understand. Has sex become so nonchalant these days that people find it acceptable to sleep with one person, then go out on a date with another the next day? I'm not THAT old, nor am I that old-fashioned, but this is just wrong, imo. I have no problem with casual sex for the most part (hey, when you're single, you can have some fun), but even THAT should be exclusive to that partner, even if it's not going to progress beyond the bedroom once or twice.

Anyway, OP, you're screwed. No matter what, your "soul mate" will always know you gave it up to somebody else during the first few weeks of your relationship. If things progress with you two any further, your first date was, well, your first date. Not month #2 when you decided you were exclusive. You were seeing (and slept with) somebody else AFTER your first date.

Hell, it doesn't even matter if this guy is somebody he hates. It could be anybody. It doesn't even matter that you didn't sleep with HIM during that time as well. What matters is that you gave somebody the ultimate gift of intimacy during a period of time you were also seeing him.


----------



## lovelygirl

It doesn't matter if you're dating several guys at the time and you're open about it.
But if you try to do something behind the back of any of them and you don't want others to know then this is considered cheating. 

So yeah, you cheated! 
Not because you slept with the other guy but because you *hid* this information from your (now) SO.


----------



## JCD

Alexm,

I am not excusing her behavior. Whether I like it or not, she was a free agent (I don't). People want to make her out to being some horrible lying betrayer of vows. This isn't the case and unsaid assumptions about a relationship are worth the paper they are printed on. 

That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

And yes, the sex thing REALLY put a stake in this if anything did.

So now her BF is a free agent. She wanted to act like a free agent. Okay. Now he is too.


----------



## alexm

Hicks said:


> You will have a tough time keeping your relationship due to this.
> 
> While you think of it as a stupid mistake, he thinks of it as a character issue. In that your character includes pretending to be chaste when in reality you are loose. Pretending to like quality men when in reality you like dirt bags.
> 
> And yes, this is important to men.


Yup. ^^^

We all have our past indiscretions, and partners who were bad ideas, or who our current partners would think "You did THAT, with HIM?". But those can be overlooked if they were in the past. In this case, it was in the present. We would all prefer that our partners "mistakes" were in the past, long before us. That they had learned from these things BEFORE they got involved with us. We want to know that they have good character BEFORE we get involved with them.

We want to know that our partner, male or female, isn't the type to hop into bed with someone so easily NOW. We want our partners to have learned and grown and got that out of their system long before we come along, not DURING, or even right before.


----------



## JCD

lovelygirl said:


> It doesn't matter if you're dating several guys at the time and you're open about it.
> But if you try to do something behind the back of any of them and you don't want others to know then this is considered cheating.
> 
> So yeah, you cheated!
> Not because you slept with the other guy but because you *hid* this information from your (now) SO.


Do we know she hid it? I am waiting for her to tell us how he found out.

Yeah, I agree she should have told him immediately herself but as many women feel, what they do as a free agent is their own business if they don't punch the 'exclusive' option on checking out.


----------



## lovelygirl

JCD said:


> Do we know she hid it? I am waiting for her to tell us how he found out.
> 
> Yeah, I agree she should have told him immediately herself but as many women feel, what they do as a free agent is their own business if they don't punch the 'exclusive' option on checking out.


Yeah it depends on the terms and conditions they set for their dating.


----------



## JCD

lovelygirl said:


> Yeah it depends on the terms and conditions they set for their dating.


She doesn't get to dictate how he feels about it though.


----------



## alexm

JCD said:


> For example: we had this one thread where the woman worked late night shifts (not busy) and was married. She was a close friend to one of her male co-workers. They were lab techs in a hospital, so there were LOTS of empty rooms with beds all over the place.
> 
> Her husband found out in the SHORT window between her last LTR and him, she had had sex with this man and was still in close private contact...and she hadn't bothered to tell him.
> 
> He felt blindsided by this and lacked trust. And I am not sure that he is unjustified in feeling that way. She made the issue a problem by her reticence. She specifically hid it from him.
> 
> Now it was out and her marriage was suffering as a result.
> 
> So...I can see a downside too. I get where you are coming from...but there are landmines out there too.


Sorry for the multi-posts!

Yes, this I can vouch for, too.

After I had been dating my wife for some time (maybe a couple of months) and I/we started thinking we were "the one", I asked her about things like this. I had been single for several months (in the process of divorce) and she had split up from her ex 7 or 8 months prior.

I wanted her to know that I was serious with her, and I told her I hadn't been with anybody else since my ex. No rebounds, etc. I felt it was important she knew that. I also wanted to know if she had been truly single in that period of time.

FWIW, if she had had some rebounds or whatever, I would have been okay with it, obviously. 8 months is a long time. But I DID want to know if there was any of that close to the time we started seeing each other (or even if I overlapped with someone else...)

It all really started before we first became intimate - I obviously wanted to know if she knew for sure that she was disease-free, if she'd been tested. She said yes. I asked her, point-blank if she had been with anybody since her ex, and she said no. I asked her if that included even fooling around with anybody, just to be sure, and she said no, nobody since her ex.

So it was initially about STD's. Always an awkward question, but it needs to be asked.

However, it occurred to me later that I likely wouldn't have been too thrilled if she had been with somebody else CLOSE to the time we started dating, STD tests or not. There's really no logic to it, but the feeling is not rare I don't think. So to overlap, as OP did, is a bad sign..


----------



## lovelygirl

JCD said:


> She doesn't get to dictate how he feels about it though.


Probably they didn't realize they had different standards for "dating".

Her bf accused her of cheating. There are two possibilities:

1- He didn't know she was*n't* dating him exclusively.
She took it for granted.
2- He knew she wasn't dating him exclusively but he never thought this included "sex with another man too".

There was a lack of open communication.


----------



## NextTimeAround

One of the problems here is that we women are taught that men like challenge and competition. Men like working for the sex (result, mek the guy we really want wait)

So there are several channels that encourage multi dating.


----------



## JCD

NextTimeAround said:


> One of the problems here is that we women are taught that men like challenge and competition. Men like working for the sex (result, mek the guy we really want wait)
> 
> So there are several channels that encourage multi dating.


You know what? This is perfectly true.

BUT, in the days when that was the case, the 'prize' was the woman put out for the best man...and she kept him fully informed a) that it WAS a contest and b) that the winner got the spoils.

Here, the man was 'competing' but didn't know that the 'prize' was being given to some guy who never bothered to show up to the starting line. Which makes his 'winning' sort of besides the point and a waste of effort on his part.

So while I agree, there are certain responsibilities incumbent to the woman to play that particular relationship game.


----------



## NextTimeAround

JCD said:


> You know what? This is perfectly true.
> 
> BUT, in the days when that was the case, the 'prize' was the woman put out for the best man...and she kept him fully informed a) that it WAS a contest and b) that the winner got the spoils.
> 
> Here, the man was 'competing' but didn't know that the 'prize' was being given to some guy who never bothered to show up to the starting line. Which makes his 'winning' sort of besides the point and a waste of effort on his part.
> 
> So while I agree, there are certain responsibilities incumbent to the woman to play that particular relationship game.


Thanks for that. It's good to identify the disconnect.


----------



## DoF

JCD said:


> You know what? This is perfectly true.
> 
> BUT, in the days when that was the case, the 'prize' was the woman put out for the best man...and she kept him fully informed a) that it WAS a contest and b) that the winner got the spoils.
> 
> Here, the man was 'competing' but didn't know that the 'prize' was being given to some guy who never bothered to show up to the starting line. Which makes his 'winning' sort of besides the point and a waste of effort on his part.
> 
> So while I agree, there are certain responsibilities incumbent to the woman to play that particular relationship game.


Well put

But I have a feeling that if the guy found out who he is competing again or his girl is considering.....he would've never raced to begin with. hehe


----------



## NextTimeAround

DoF said:


> Well put
> 
> But I have a feeling that if the guy found out who he is competing again or his girl is considering.....he would've never raced to begin with. hehe


We woman are the same. My feeling is that if my fiance prefered a big fat woman 11 years younger than he with a foul mouth and who was still looking, then I would leave him to it.

My fiance has really had to work hard to reassure me.


----------



## cjl

alexm said:


> Yup. ^^^
> 
> We all have our past indiscretions, and partners who were bad ideas, or who our current partners would think "You did THAT, with HIM?". But those can be overlooked if they were in the past. In this case, it was in the present. We would all prefer that our partners "mistakes" were in the past, long before us. That they had learned from these things BEFORE they got involved with us. We want to know that they have good character BEFORE we get involved with them.
> 
> We want to know that our partner, male or female, isn't the type to hop into bed with someone so easily NOW. We want our partners to have learned and grown and got that out of their system long before we come along, not DURING, or even right before.


I really like your thinking. Exactly how I see it too.


----------



## cjl

One of the questions I would have: 

What was it about this guy that made you drop your panties? 

I then would start thinking about who else around us may be like that. My trusts would be shot.


----------



## NextTimeAround

cjl said:


> One of the questions I would have:
> 
> What was it about this guy that made you drop your panties?
> 
> I then would start thinking about who else around us may be like that. My trusts would be shot.



It's the same with me. I was asking, what was I missing. Would I be a bigger prize in your eyes if you knew that I was having sex with someone else? Of course, he says, no.

Do you like it when it someone starts text messages with the word "a$$hole?" and so on......

I do know not to give my fiance an easy time. He wants someone feisty and who stands up to him..... not someone who is looking for open honest dialogue. So at least I have learned something.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I absolutely hate this whole " exclusivity " argument in dating.

Why would I want to have a relationship with someone whom i have to " negotiate " fidelity with?

Fidelity is a character trait .
Character traits aren't " negotiable." 

To me , it sounds like a perfect excuse for selfish entitled people to eat their cakes and have it at the same time.

It is an excuse for bad behaviour .


----------



## JCD

Caribbean Man said:


> I absolutely hate this whole " exclusivity " argument in dating.
> 
> Why would I want to have a relationship with someone whom i have to " negotiate " fidelity with?
> 
> Fidelity is a character trait .
> Character traits aren't " negotiable."
> 
> To me , it sounds like a perfect excuse for selfish entitled people to eat their cakes and have it at the same time.
> 
> It is an excuse for bad behaviour .


Yes and...

Look...dating is a 'dances with the stars' search like Next said. She is looking for 'the best man' and not every woman wants to waste time with serial dating. 

And I agree with Alexm and DoF.

A girl can tell me she is dating other guys and I am left to the decision to whether or not she is my kind of girl (probably not)

HOWEVER, I think if WE are dating, she isn't fairly allowed to have sex with any of us. Sex is a powerful bonding agent. You allow a level playing field. 

Dinner and movies? Not happy, but not out of line.

She puts out for someone else and I'll drop her like a hot rock. Because it isn't fair to me.


----------



## Lordhavok

Scarlet had mentioned "spreading it around" and it was tossed around to reword it. Thats exactly what she done and thats exactly what the boyfriend thinks. Word it anyway you want to, still means the same. I hope he splits and never looks back. I'm with several others on the exclusive thing, and caribbean man nailed it. No way I would date some chick thats also seeing several others and wait for my turn. To hell with that. This other guy that he hates so much is probably running his mouth at work or whatever about all of this, dude needs to bail.


----------



## sh987

Caribbean Man said:


> I absolutely hate this whole " exclusivity " argument in dating.
> 
> Why would I want to have a relationship with someone whom i have to " negotiate " fidelity with?
> 
> Fidelity is a character trait .
> Character traits aren't " negotiable."
> 
> To me , it sounds like a perfect excuse for selfish entitled people to eat their cakes and have it at the same time.
> 
> It is an excuse for bad behaviour .


It's kind of funny, but my wife and I were talking about this exact thing the other night, after seeing a reddit thread about a woman who was seeing several men at the same time, and she said it was all above the board because she never had a specific conversation with any of the men where exclusivity was discussed.

Mrs. sh987 said it straight-away: "Oh, so she was cheating on all of them. Move on." I shared that sentiment.

When we started seeing each other, we took it as a given that when you date somebody, you're dating that person and that person only. Other people are free to have their own beliefs, but that's an area where the two of us were very compatible.

I have no problem when folks want to date a number of people before settling down, learning about relationships, how they do and don't work, etc... But you do it one relationship at a time.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

The dating exclusively vs dating around trips people up I think.

Opt 1:If you're going out with a guy more than once a week,texting,calling,and sleeping with him,sometimes he pays,sometimes you pay,etc then you're in an actual relationship.

Opt 2:If you're going out w/a guy once in a blue moon,always paying your way and going home afterward...you're not in a relationship.

You can do option 2 with more than one guy if you want. Option 1 has an unspoken rule of exclusivity that should be followed and if you don't want to follow it then you should bring it up with the man point blank.

Obviously there are all types of relationships and situations so I realize it can't possibly be simplified into two types.This is just an example.


----------



## DoF

Yep, that's the "unwritten" code that DECENT people go by.

Those that don't should be in question and probably not REAL relationship material.

It speaks about the character and decency of the person


----------



## Jellybeans

sh987 said:


> a reddit thread about a woman who was seeing several men at the same time, and she said it was all above the board because she never had a specific conversation with any of the men where exclusivity was discussed.


And this is why I ask specific questions now.

I was going out with a man and asked him "Are you married?" a few dates in. Granted, the implication (one would think) is that he was single because hello, he was asking me out and we were enjoying time together, but I realized I had never OUTRIGHT asked him. He thought it was funny but I said "Sometimes if you don't ask straight out, nobody will tell you." The whole "Well you never asked" issue. And he said, "Yeah you're right." (Nott about him being married, but about not asking the right questions).


----------



## sh987

Jellybeans said:


> And this is why I ask specific questions now.


I can't blame you there; it seems like the best policy to have in order to protect yourself.


----------



## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> And this is why I ask specific questions now.
> 
> I was going out with a man and asked him "Are you married?" a few dates in. Granted, the implication (one would think) is that he was single because hello, he was asking me out and we were enjoying time together, but I realized I had never OUTRIGHT asked him. He thought it was funny but I said "Sometimes if you don't ask straight out, nobody will tell you." The whole "Well you never asked" issue. And he said, "Yeah you're right." (Nott about him being married, but about not asking the right questions).


Hehe

SMART!

"Are you married" or better yet "are you involved with or in a serious relationship" question should probably be asked on 1st date....but 3rd date is good too (doesn't come off too pushy etc).

Asking right off the bat sets a certain standard from your end. That you are not into "wasting time" and "serious" about dating/finding someone special (if that's what one wants of course).

It also filters out people that want NO part of that. Those that are just chasing tail ONLY will most likely give up on you after a question like that....as it tells them "this lady is serious"


----------



## JCD

DoF said:


> Yep, that's the "unwritten" code that DECENT people go by.
> 
> Those that don't should be in question and probably not REAL relationship material.
> 
> It speaks about the character and decency of the person


See my response to unwritten and unspoken assumptions
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF

JCD said:


> See my response to unwritten and unspoken assumptions
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did, prior to the post you quoted. 

I even marked it "liked" when I read it.


----------



## Jellybeans

DoF said:


> Hehe
> 
> SMART!
> 
> "Are you married" or better yet "are you involved with or in a serious relationship" question should probably be asked on 1st date....but 3rd date is good too (doesn't come off too pushy etc).


Oh it went like this:

"Are you married?" which was followed by a look of surprise and then a smile that said "No" and then I asked "Are you engaged or otherwise involved with someone?"


----------



## Ripper

Basically, the "soul mate" was getting charged a premium (relationship) for something the OP was giving away to someone else for free. That wouldn't sit well with anyone.

That the freebie was given to someone this guy hates is just the icing on the cake.

If any of you populate the "manosphere", you know this story plays out every day in every location in the world.


----------



## lovelygirl

I recall having dinner with a guy who asked me if I was engaged...and 
my answer was "Do you think I'd be having dinner with you right now if that was the case..? " 

I can't blame him for asking that ..but then again if I had doubts about someone being engaged, why take them out to dinner at all?


----------



## 6301

LonnieHere said:


> He just called. He's not coming home tonite said he is going to stay with his buddy. He didn't even sound angry now more like sad or something. I said he can have whatever space he needs. He wanted details on the other guy but i said we shouldn't talk about this stuff on the phone.


 The was a good idea. Some thing need to be addressed face to face. Giving him his space also helps because no one can have a rational conversation when their mad. Good luck.


----------



## NextTimeAround

lovelygirl said:


> I recall having dinner with a guy who asked me if I was engaged...and
> my answer was "Do you think I'd be having dinner with you right now if that was the case..? "
> 
> I can't blame him for asking that ..*but then again if I had doubts about someone being engaged, why take them out to dinner at all?*


Some people do believe in "innocent until proven guilty."

Although I have learned the hard way myself that people will harbor though own opinion of you without taking the time to verify them. Which is why we need to be concerned as to how our behavior / actions may be interpreted by others.


----------



## DoF

Ripper said:


> If any of you populate the "manosphere", you know this story plays out every day in every location in the world.


Unfortunately that is very true


----------



## Jellybeans

lovelygirl said:


> I can't blame him for asking that ..but then again if I had doubts about someone being engaged, why take them out to dinner at all?


It's covering bases. I have lived enough to know it's better to ask questions.

Plenty of married men using online dating sites and women think they are single. You just never know.


----------



## sandc

If I go to a store for something and find out I have to pay for it but it is being given for free to someone else... yeah, I'm going to shop somewhere else. No thank you.


----------



## larry.gray

I encourage all of the people reading this to turn around and teach their kids about this when they reach their mid to late teen years.

There are people that presume any physical contact beyond kissing to mean the relationship is exclusive. There are people that do not make that presumption. They think that until you have a conversation stating "we're exclusive" then they are free to play the field. 

The problem arises when those two people meet up. Each one is making their own presumptions and that disconnect causes heartbreak. I've had that conversation with my eldest, and she admits that's she glad I did. She's in the former camp, and made the presumption that most people would be. She never thought about probing a guy to see if he was. Being in the latter camp would be a deal breaker for her. Because of opening her eyes about it, she's had that conversation.


----------



## tulsy

The "soul mate" is plan B...he's Mr Nice guy. The other guy, plan A, is the STUD she couldn't wait to ride, but after he was done with her, she just focused on her back-up plan.

Sneaky...I would 180 after hearing that crap. Feet don't fail me now.


----------



## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> It's covering bases. I have lived enough to know it's better to ask questions.
> 
> Plenty of married men using online dating sites and women think they are single. You just never know.


Yep, assume "worst case scenario" and trust no one.

It's YOUR job to do research/ask questions and find it out on your own.

And at times, you might even have to dig deeper as many people will simply lie right to your face (some are GREAT liars)


----------



## larry.gray

Jellybeans said:


> It's covering bases. I have lived enough to know it's better to ask questions.
> 
> Plenty of married men using online dating sites and women think they are single. You just never know.


My sister got burned by that. She was 'dating' a guy that traveled all the time for work. She had no idea he had a wife at home and only found out when the BW hired a PI. 

The wife did a full on OW confront like they encourage over on CWI and my sis dropped him like a rock.


----------



## DoF

tulsy said:


> The "soul mate" is plan B...he's Mr Nice guy. The other guy, plan A, is the STUD she couldn't wait to ride, but after he was done with her, she just focused on her back-up plan.
> 
> Sneaky...I would 180 after hearing that crap. Feet don't fail me now.


:iagree:

It still blows my mind that women do this. 

If you want a bad boy, that's exactly what you will get.


----------



## xakulax

Looking at it from the point of view of the boyfriend he must be thinking if she was welling to compare us then whats to stop her from doing it again in the future with some other guy or the same guy she basically cheated whether it's early in the relationship or not is immaterial you where seeing two guys at the same time which is kinda of a taboo in dating but to make things worse you did it with two guys that hate each other! that's an even bigger dating no no YOUR 0-2 on this one.


My advice give him some space and time to think and cool down.


----------



## lisab0105

If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


----------



## larry.gray

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


Are you just scanning the forums looking for something to pick at so you can get all indignant?

If you scan up a few posts, you will find one from me warning my *DAUGHTER* about a *GUY* pulling this same trick and how to not have it happen to *HER*.


----------



## xakulax

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.




I can only speak for myself my view are same regardless of gender I would never date two woman at same time i'm a little too classy for that.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


LOL Can't speak for the others but mine would be exactly the same.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

This discussion was brought up before *>>* http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...how-often-did-do-you-date-multiple-women.html - (but turned around)...even those who feel casual sex is Ok is usually against multiple "seeing ANYONE else" at the same time...

That is what I learned on this thread...it's a HUGE NO [email protected]#$ 

I had another perspective, if I was single, I may want to line them up, just to meet more in a smaller span of time instead of pacing 1 guy on the weekends...getting older, time is of the essence...would want to take advantage of meeting many -in search for the one most compatible......

BUT having said that... I'd insist on paying my own way (don't want to use men)... there would be no "'getting intimate"...beyond a kiss...when it reaches there..lower......the choice has been made...exclusivity began ... But even my husband said he wouldn't go for that.. he'd want exclusivity from the get go- knowing he was the only one calling, seeing, etc.. regardless of getting intimate... 

That's where being honest with any *potentials* comes in...we need to respect each other ...even new people...and what we are comfortable with...be real from the get go... talk it out...

I would feel the same as this BF -if I was in his shoes, it was something kept from him & this Bad boy....he got the bonding intimacy -he won the race...and he's the D*CK...how does that look...he was obviously HOTTER physically... come on now...

I would find the soul mate reference a slap in the face...learning this information.


----------



## lisab0105

larry.gray said:


> Are you just scanning the forums looking for something to pick at so you can get all indignant?
> 
> If you scan up a few posts, you will find one from me warning my *DAUGHTER* about a *GUY* pulling this same trick and how to not have it happen to *HER*.


Why YES, that is exactly what I was doing...any excuse to be indignant!!! Ya got me, LG. 

I don't for a second believe that most of the opinions would be a the same...I have been on TAM too long and read too much to buy that bridge. Not saying all...but most.


----------



## Jellybeans

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


I disagree.

Most people here would be giving the same advice if the OP were a man. I know I would.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

LonnieHere said:


> i know it sounds like a crappy thing to do but it was kind of early and we didn't say we were exclusive (actually we've never said that we just became exclusive if that makes sense) So it's not really cheating and it's not like i was intimate with both when i was with the other guy


Since you weren't married and didn't agree to be exclusive yet, it was not cheating. Your boyfriend sounds like the overly jealous type. I'd suggest you think carefully whether you want to build your life with him if he gets mad and 'breaks up' with you over something like this.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Jellybeans said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Most people here would be giving the same advice if the OP were a man. I know I would.


:iagree:


I would too. I don't believe I would hold a woman to a different standard than myself or other men.

That said, I think you would see more comments if it is a woman rather than a man but the comments would generally give the same advice.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> Since you weren't married and didn't agree to be exclusive yet, it was not cheating. Your boyfriend sounds like the overly jealous type. I'd suggest you think carefully whether you want to build your life with him if he gets mad and 'breaks up' with you over something like this.


Wait a second. While they may not have vocalized exclusivity, she said she was holding off on having sex in order to "do it right." His perception very well could have been that they were exclusive ... or the very least that she wasn't the type of person to do that. Jealousy or not, from his point of view that speaks to her character. THAT is a dealbreaker. 

My wife and I never vocalized our exclusivity when dating up until the point in time that I married her. So would it have been ok then for me to secretly bang anybody I wanted up until the point that I said "I do"? You argue that they didn't vocalize exclusivity and I would counter that they didn't vocalize non-exclusivity.

Honestly if I found out my gf had sex with another guy while dating me and she told me she doesn't like jealousy and to get over myself, I would tell her to go eff herself. If I wasn't already done because of what she did, I certainly would be done if she pulled that crap. 

Her best options would have been to 1) not sleep with this other guy, or 2) be completely honest that she was seeing other men. If she had been honest at the time and he agreed to continue to date her THEN I might agree with you but that isn't what happened.


----------



## sandc

lisab0105 said:


> Why YES, that is exactly what I was doing...any excuse to be indignant!!! Ya got me, LG.
> 
> I don't for a second believe that most of the opinions would be a the same...I have been on TAM too long and read too much to buy that bridge. Not saying all...but most.


My advice would be the same regardless of the sex of the OP. But then I'm only a man so...


----------



## samyeagar

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


Sure, there are those who would give different advice, but as you can see, I am not so sure the gender bias is as slanted as you would like to believe.


----------



## xakulax

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Wait a second. While they may not have vocalized exclusivity, she said she was holding off on having sex in order to "do it right." His perception very well could have been that they were exclusive ... or the very least that she wasn't the type of person to do that. Jealousy or not, from his point of view that speaks to her character. THAT is a dealbreaker.
> 
> My wife and I never vocalized our exclusivity when dating up until the point in time that I married her. So would it have been ok then for me to secretly bang anybody I wanted up until the point that I said "I do"? You argue that they didn't vocalize exclusivity and I would counter that they didn't vocalize non-exclusivity.
> 
> Honestly if I found out my gf had sex with another guy while dating me and she told me she doesn't like jealousy and to get over myself, I would tell her to go eff herself. If I wasn't already done because of what she did, I certainly would be done if she pulled that crap.
> 
> Her best options would have been to 1) not sleep with this other guy, or 2) be completely honest that she was seeing other men. If she had been honest at the time and he agreed to continue to date her THEN I might agree with you but that isn't what happened.



:iagree:


And don't forget she sleep with someone to which the OP boyfriend see as an enemy.

Cheating is one thing but doing with someone you know your SO hates is an act most foul not to mention the implication of being plan B.


----------



## xakulax

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> Since you weren't married and didn't agree to be exclusive yet, it was not cheating. Your boyfriend sounds like the overly jealous type. I'd suggest you think carefully whether you want to build your life with him if he gets mad and 'breaks up' with you over something like this.




*Sens when do we have to negotiate basic moral decency*? If she wanted to date two guys at the same time then simply tell them that and let them decide if they want to be apart of it.


----------



## NextTimeAround

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


And I also felt stung having benn a) multidated; b) have our relationship influenced by another women who c) was supposedly "just a friend."

No one wants to be treated like Plan B, male or female.


----------



## Wolf1974

lisab0105 said:


> Why YES, that is exactly what I was doing...any excuse to be indignant!!! Ya got me, LG.
> 
> I don't for a second believe that most of the opinions would be a the same...I have been on TAM too long and read too much to buy that bridge. Not saying all...but most.


Would be same advice guy or girl for me and I am a guy.

Starting a relationship can be difficult for sure. If you are only interested in dating and sleeping around then no discussion needs to happen about being exclusive. If you are looking for a relationship then the discussion about being exclusive and monogamous needs to happen early on to avoid exactly this type of thing. I don't date multiple people though anymore...... It seems really counterproductive to me.


----------



## theroad

LonnieHere said:


> OK so to answer some of your questions.
> 
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. The other guy just sort of happened.
> 
> They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer. I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out. Sucks.


I read this as you were dating both at the same time.

You dated your BF first then started seeing the OM while still seeing the BF.

You had sex with the OM before you had sex with your BF. Did you wait before you were done with the OM before you had sex with your BF?


----------



## larry.gray

lisab0105 said:


> I don't for a second believe that most of the opinions would be a the same...I have been on TAM too long and read too much to buy that bridge. Not saying all...but most.


Who, specifically? Name the people in this thread who've posted already and would argue differently based on gender.

You're getting upset about something you _perceive_ but *isn't actually here* to get indignant about. You're now asking us to disprove a negative.


----------



## larry.gray

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> Since you weren't married and didn't agree to be exclusive yet, it was not cheating. Your boyfriend sounds like the overly jealous type. I'd suggest you think carefully whether you want to build your life with him if he gets mad and 'breaks up' with you over something like this.


I respect both points of view that I laid out before. I am not judgmental of those that hold the point of view you and this woman share. 

I suggest you share the same respect. If we shouldn't use words like 'slvt' (and I don't think we should) then you should stay away from words like 'jealous type' and suggest that he's unworthy of a relationship. 

I'd rather word is as "basic incompatibility" that makes them unlikely to make it in the long run.


----------



## staarz21

I know this is way out in left field...

But why can't you date ONE person (go out a few times) Decide yes or no...then Date someone else? Like, not at the same time? It just seems really difficult to keep up with going out...and names...and stories from one person. What if you get one person mixed up with another? That would be awkward. Why multi date? 

I wouldn't date anyone who was currently dating someone else. I could decide to get intimate with one guy at any moment during our "dating" and he is boinking another girl that he's "dating" and I end up with something I can't wash off.

It just seems easier to do one at a time, unless of course you are looking for one night stands. That's not dating though. That's hunting.


----------



## DoF

staarz21 said:


> I know this is way out in left field...
> 
> But why can't you date ONE person (go out a few times) Decide yes or no...then Date someone else? Like, not at the same time? It just seems really difficult to keep up with going out...and names...and stories from one person. What if you get one person mixed up with another? That would be awkward. Why multi date?
> 
> I wouldn't date anyone who was currently dating someone else. I could decide to get intimate with one guy at any moment during our "dating" and he is boinking another girl that he's "dating" and I end up with something I can't wash off.
> 
> It just seems easier to do one at a time, unless of course you are looking for one night stands. That's not dating though. That's hunting.


Because of our society......"more the better"....."everyone is doing it so it MUST be good"

To ME, idea of handling/dating more than one woman is simply not appealing AT ALL.

BUT I also realize that most man that's quite the opposite. They think of it as "more options"/more tail and maybe it makes them feel good about themselves?

No clue


----------



## I Don't Know

OP, all I can tell you is how I'd feel if I were in your BF's position. I would feel like you didn't think I was worthy of your "gift", but the other guy was. I would feel like you didn't have the same level of attraction to me as you did him. I would feel like I was your second choice. I would feel like your safe choice. I would feel like I was the guy that makes sense but not the guy you really wanted. I would feel like I couldn't be your "soul mate" if you would have sex with him while making me wait. And I would be pissed that you had wasted the last year of my life. I would be out of that relationship and fast. 

I don't get the whole "do it right" concept. If you ALWAYS wait a while before sex, that's fine. But if one guy gets it in a week and another gets it in 2 months? How is that "doing it right"? Women and men have the right to choose who with and how long to wait of course, but if you're willing and able to wait X amount of time with one guy then I'd say he's not really the one you're into.

ETA: I'm not talking about someone who has sex quickly when young and then as they mature decides it's a good idea to wait a while. I'm talking about someone who makes that turnaround in a matter of months or like the OP at the same exact time.


----------



## alexm

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


I've been here a long time, too, and I can't think of one (current or former) member who would make any sort of distinction based on the gender of the OP.

Yes, there are members here (male AND female) who are sexist to varying degrees, but that's a cross-section of society. It wouldn't be different anywhere else.

You're going to have to back up your statement with this one. :scratchhead:


----------



## Pufferfish

LonnieHere said:


> i know it sounds like a crappy thing to do but it was kind of early and we didn't say we were exclusive (actually we've never said that we just became exclusive if that makes sense) So it's not really cheating and it's not like i was intimate with both when i was with the other guy


Oh Dear LonnieHere,

"So it's not really cheating". If that is the case, then a suitable analogy would be that you committed a crime but was acquitted on a technicality like the Police mishandled the evidence. That's what it amounts to. 

From a male perspective, you were still a two timing girlfriend (I'm assuming that you are female). No man wants that. 

I know you think that you were not "exclusive" at the time but I beg to differ. I would hedge my bets that no sensible man looking for a serious relationship would date a woman who was having sex with someone else, even if it was just casual sex. 

There is a bit of a feeding frenzy going on your thread and quite rightly so. There are a lot of posters here who have experienced betrayal by loved ones. Your story just has different timings and "interpretations". It still follows the infidelity script. 

Since you are on TAM, you must have read some of the trainwrecks posted in the infidelity section. The advice has been repeated over and over again. Your boyfriend is now a betrayed spouse of sorts. You are going to have to approach him like one if you want to repair your relationship.


----------



## DoF

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


Not with me here it wouldn't be. 

Take the gender out and my posts still stand.


----------



## DoF

Pufferfish said:


> You are going to have to approach him like one if you want to repair your relationship.


I don't think it can ever be repaired at this point. Especially with the attitude OP has towards the entire situation.


----------



## happi_g_more2

anyone else feel like this is a troll?


----------



## tulsy

LonnieHere said:


> .
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. The other guy just sort of happened.
> 
> They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer.* I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out.* Sucks.


That last line kills me...she thought the womanizer would be different? Think about what the "soul mate" is going through right now....he thought SHE was different.

She admits to dating the "soul mate" for a month, but didn't sleep with him because she " really wanted to do it right ". Then she starts sleeping with someone he loathes, behind his back.

But that's not cheating? If they were dating for a month, then she starts banging someone else, it's cheating unless she tells the guy. She kept it from him all this time because she KNEW it was cheating.

I guess the moral of the story is HAVE the talk about exclusivity, but more than that, tell your partner(s) if you aren't exclusively dating them...I think you owe them that. The rest of it was all an illusion, which is why the guy isn't coming home. 

If she had been honest early on and told him "hey, I went out with "your-worst-enemy" and I think he's not so bad...", her "soul mate" would have known that the other guy was in the picture. She should have told him that "...it just sorta happened, and we had sex...", which would have given him a clear picture of the kind of girl she is. But she didn't, which still gives him a clear picture of the kind of girl she is, but now he's humiliated and he's wasted all this time with the wrong kind of girl (wrong kind of girl for him).

I think it's pretty obviously cheating, otherwise she would have told the guy at least after it happened. Her hiding the truth from him is lying by omission...she didn't want him to know that while she was holding out on giving him sex, she was freely giving it up for someone else.


----------



## LonnieHere

I didn't hear from him this morning so i called him and we agreed to get together for lunch and discuss things. I wasn't in the mood to go back to work after that so i came home. I've skimmed most of the responses cause i haven't had time to read each one but i will

Anyway, lunch was really awkward and there were alot of like really uncomfortable silences. When we did talk it was sort of worse. He feels crappy that i did a guy he hates. That led to him saying what was i thinking if i thought that guy was cool and other stuff.

I told him it was a mistake and that it didn't mean anything. And that is absolutely true - it didn't it was just physical. He wanted to know how quickly the other guy "got there" and i sort of skirted the issue cause i didn't want to hurt him. So he figured the other guy and i were quick off the mark. And then i got what i knew was coming. He asked why i made him wait and all i could say was that i thought we were special together and wanted to start our relationship on a solid basis. To say he didn't see it that way is an understatement. He said we dated and wined and dined and he had to wait while the unspecial guy got sex right away. He called me a deceitful so and so who got f-ed by a piece of crap. He got kind of quiet after that and then said he had to get back to work. I said if we can talk some morelater and he said like whatever.

The truth is i never wanted to hurt him but know i did. I just really want to make this right and make it up to him


----------



## WorkingOnMe

The fact is, if he were to agree to come back to you, you would never respect him. He's plan B. If he were plan A you'd have been all over him from the beginning just like the other guy. I'll bet you did all sorts of things trying to win the other guy that you wouldn't dream of doing for your "soul mate" since he doesn't really do it for you.


----------



## I Don't Know

You're special so you have to wait for sex. Makes sense to me. I'm glad my GF didn't think I was that special when we got together. Kinda makes me feel more special that she gave it up to me quick but not so much to other guys. I guess I'm weird.


----------



## samyeagar

LonnieHere said:


> I didn't hear from him this morning so i called him and we agreed to get together for lunch and discuss things. I wasn't in the mood to go back to work after that so i came home. I've skimmed most of the responses cause i haven't had time to read each one but i will
> 
> Anyway, lunch was really awkward and there were alot of like really uncomfortable silences. When we did talk it was sort of worse. He feels crappy that i did a guy he hates. That led to him saying what was i thinking if i thought that guy was cool and other stuff.
> 
> I told him it was a mistake and that it didn't mean anything. And that is absolutely true - it didn't it was just physical. He wanted to know how quickly the other guy "got there" and i sort of skirted the issue cause i didn't want to hurt him. So he figured the other guy and i were quick off the mark. And then i got what i knew was coming. He asked why i made him wait and all i could say was that i thought we were special together and wanted to start our relationship on a solid basis. To say he didn't see it that way is an understatement. He said we dated and wined and dined and he had to wait while the unspecial guy got sex right away. He called me a deceitful so and so who got f-ed by a piece of crap. He got kind of quiet after that and then said he had to get back to work. I said if we can talk some morelater and he said like whatever.
> 
> The truth is i never wanted to hurt him but know i did. I just really want to make this right and make it up to him


Unintended consequences for behavior that was not really thought out. I am sure you didn't purposely try to hurt him, but there are always consequences no matter the intent, and I fear that losing him is just one of those. I hope the other guy was worth it.


----------



## Pufferfish

You have a lot of work to do LonnieHere. All the worse parts posted on your thread have come to pass. 

As a man, I fully understand your boyfriends reaction and thought process. You immediately gave your best to the other guy because you thought you could change him. Your boyfriend and so called soul mate had to work for the leftovers. 

Just out of interest, why did you chose to give it up to the other guy so quickly? Would you have chosen him if he decided that "you were the one" and changed his "Player" MO?

PS. "It just happened". Things like tripping on a stone and falling over just happens. Tripping over and impaling your Vajayjay on someones John Thomas doesn't "just happen".


----------



## jaharthur

DoF said:


> I edited my post as I read that she was dating him at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares. I would ignore him. I don't feed stupidity or idiots. And their opinion is usually beneath dirt to me.
> 
> 
> 
> OP simply needs to learn from this and apologize. She was wrong to treat one relationship one way and the other completely opposite.
> 
> But what I said originally stands. Woman should NOT share any details of past relationship unless we are talking STDs or other things that her partner has a right to know.


Details, no. And if the couple is just interested in a role in the hay or a short fling, I would agree. But the facts of someone's history is relevant IF a committed relationship or, say, marriage is concerned. Actions speak louder than words. Conduct is a window into a person's soul. A partner is entitled to know a potential spouse's belief system. If she cheats at the beginning on her supposed "soul mate", how can she ever be trusted?


----------



## Nucking Futs

larry.gray said:


> Gotcha. I was wondering if you were questioning the name because every Lonnie I've known was a dude.


----------



## jaharthur

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


Not from here. My attitude is 100% the same. If guy did that, the "soul mate" woman should kick him to the curb ASAP.

How many dollars will you be sending me? Do you need wiring instructions?


----------



## theroad

NextTimeAround said:


> One of the problems here is that we women are taught that men like challenge and competition. Men like working for the sex (result, mek the guy we really want wait)
> 
> So there are several channels that encourage multi dating.


Making a guy work for it does not require the GF to be banging someone else while she is making the other BF work for It.


----------



## LonnieHere

I've started going through all the comments. Lots of people are mentioning how i say my guy is my soul mate and how can he be if i treated him that way. Well, when we started dating i liked him alot but it's not like i instantly decided we were soul mates. I came to realize this over the course of our relationship during which i realized that he really IS the one for me AND that i was attracted to all the wrong sorts of guys before he came into my life. And one of those wrong guys was the "other guy." I f-ed up. I know this and i told him so. i want to prove to him now that i'm different than before and that he really helped me get to a better place.


----------



## jaharthur

LonnieHere said:


> I told him it was a mistake and that *it didn't mean anything*. And that is absolutely true - it didn't it was just physical. He wanted to know how quickly the other guy "got there" and* i sort of skirted the issue cause i didn't want to hurt him.* So he figured the other guy and i were quick off the mark. And then i got what i knew was coming. He asked why i made him wait and all i could say was that *i thought we were special together and wanted to start our relationship on a solid basis. * To say he didn't see it that way is an understatement. He said we dated and wined and dined and he had to wait while the unspecial guy got sex right away. *He called me a deceitful so and so who got f-ed by a piece of crap.* He got kind of quiet after that and then said he had to get back to work. I said if we can talk some morelater and he said like whatever.
> 
> The truth is i never wanted to hurt him but know i did. I just really want to make this right and make it up to him


Chalk this one up to experience. You can't make it right with him.


----------



## jaharthur

LonnieHere said:


> I've started going through all the comments. Lots of people are mentioning how i say my guy is my soul mate and how can he be if i treated him that way. Well, when we started dating i liked him alot but it's not like i instantly decided we were soul mates. I came to realize this over the course of our relationship during which i realized that he really IS the one for me AND that i was attracted to all the wrong sorts of guys before he came into my life. And one of those wrong guys was the "other guy." I f-ed up. I know this and i told him so. i want to prove to him now that i'm different than before and that he really helped me get to a better place.


Did you F*ck the other guy before or after you decided your "soul mate" was the one for you?


----------



## tryingtobebetter

LonnieHere said:


> I've started going through all the comments. Lots of people are mentioning how i say my guy is my soul mate and how can he be if i treated him that way. Well, when we started dating i liked him alot but it's not like i instantly decided we were soul mates. I came to realize this over the course of our relationship during which i realized that he really IS the one for me AND that i was attracted to all the wrong sorts of guys before he came into my life. And one of those wrong guys was the "other guy." I f-ed up. I know this and i told him so. i want to prove to him now that i'm different than before and that he really helped me get to a better place.


I wish you well. From reading many other similar threads, I advise you, if you talk further, to be completely truthful in answering any questions. It usually only makes matters worse in the long run if you are not.

There have been various comments about giving details. I think there is a Catch 22 here. If you refuse to give details he will probably assume the worst. I would give those you are asked for but do not volunteer anything that is not sought


----------



## I Don't Know

jaharthur said:


> Chalk this one up to experience. You can't make it right with him.


Agreed. This guy is done. 

Sorry you had to learn this lesson in this way. Actions have consequences. 

Understand this would be hard for him if you had screwed this other guy BEFORE you two were together. But while you were dating him? I can't see your man getting over that.


----------



## theroad

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


Dual dating is wrong even for the superior sex.


----------



## Blondilocks

If her guy was so special right off the bat, she wouldn't have been knocking knees with someone else. It sounds like she came to appreciate her guy over time (he grew on her). 

Besides, maybe she didn't know the two guys were arch enemies. There is nothing wrong with dating two people at the same time as long as no one thinks they're in an exclusive relationship. Just because a girl is wined and dined does not give a guy exclusive rights to her.

It sounds like her guy is just as upset about the 'who' as the fact that he didn't get his first.

Tell him that you saved the best for last.


----------



## I Don't Know

tryingtobebetter said:


> I wish you well. From reading many other similar threads, I advise you, if you talk further, to be completely truthful in answering any questions. It usually only makes matters worse in the long run if you are not.
> 
> There have been various comments about giving details. I think there is a Catch 22 here. If you refuse to give details he will probably assume the worst. I would give those you are asked for but *do not volunteer anything that is not sought*


I dissagree with that last part.

If, and that's a big if, he decides to give it a try don't hold anything back. Give him all the information he needs to decide if he can continue in this relationship. Anything you leave out or gloss over with come back on you later. Leave no questions in his mind to fester.

You've taken away his choice to be with you for the last year. Don't take away his choice for the next however long.


----------



## NextTimeAround

theroad said:


> Making a guy work for it does not require the GF to be banging someone else while she is making the other BF work for It.


The hope here is that either you men won't find out or you will be impressed that someone else wanted us.

I had started a thread about this on the men's board back in December, i think. Some women were contemplating taking an FB while they keep the one that they really want at arm's length for a while.


----------



## JCD

LonnieHere said:


> I've started going through all the comments. Lots of people are mentioning how i say my guy is my soul mate and how can he be if i treated him that way. Well, when we started dating i liked him alot but it's not like i instantly decided we were soul mates. I came to realize this over the course of our relationship during which i realized that he really IS the one for me AND that i was attracted to all the wrong sorts of guys before he came into my life. And one of those wrong guys was the "other guy." I f-ed up. I know this and i told him so. i want to prove to him now that i'm different than before and that he really helped me get to a better place.



Fair enough. I can see that.

The problem is proving it to the BF.

Glad you are back and talk the comments here with a grain of salt. The cause is not lost but it's a hard road you set for yourself.


----------



## theroad

LonnieHere said:


> I told him it was a mistake and that it didn't mean anything. And that is absolutely true - it didn't it was just physical. He wanted to know how quickly the other guy "got there" and i sort of skirted the issue cause i didn't want to hurt him.


Unbelievable.

You "cheat" on him.

Then you lie to him about what happened when he asks you for the truth on what went down.

You broke the trust he had in you by banging the OM then you further break the trust by lying to BF at lunch.


----------



## bandit.45

Sad story. 

I doubt he will want to stay with you Lonnie. If he is a self respecting guy then he won't. 

There is no way to erase this from his mind Lonnie. There is nothing you can do to adequately explain to him why you had sex with the other guy at the drop of a hat and made him work for it. 

The truth you don't want to admit is what I said to you before: you knew this guy was a player and womanizer when you slept with him. You used him and let him use you in ways you probably would not let BF do sexually, because BF is the stable, sure thing. The other guy meant nothing to you, and therefore you don't care about his opinion of you or if he thinks you are a nasty slvt in bed. 

But your BF is different. You had to make sure his good opinion of you was peerless and set in stone. You probably gave him good, serviceable vanilla sex to keep him hooked and in his proper place. You have to continue this good-girl act if you want to keep his good opinion of you intact, and have the control in the relationship. 

Think about what I'm saying, even though it may make you angry to hear it. And then ask yourself if what you did was fair.


----------



## theroad

NextTimeAround said:


> The hope here is that either you men won't find out or you will be impressed that someone else wanted us.
> 
> I had started a thread about this on the men's board back in December, i think. Some women were contemplating taking an FB while they keep the one that they really want at arm's length for a while.


I would find it very difficult to stick with a woman that did that to me. As said the truth usually comes out.


----------



## JCD

bandit.45 said:


> Sad story.
> 
> I doubt he will want to stay with you Lonnie. If he is a self respecting guy then he won't.
> 
> There is no way to erase this from his mind Lonnie. There is nothing you can do to adequately explain to him why you had sex with the other guy at the drop of a hat and made him work for it.
> 
> The truth you don't want to admit is what I said to you before: you knew this guy was a player and womanizer when you slept with him. You used him and let him use you in ways you probably would not let BF do sexually, because BF is the stable, sure thing. The other guy meant nothing to you, and therefore you don't care about his opinion of you or if he thinks you are a nasty slvt in bed.
> 
> But your BF is different. You had to make sure his good opinion of you was peerless and set in stone. You probably gave him good, serviceable vanilla sex to keep him hooked and in his proper place. You have to continue this good-girl act if you want to keep his good opinion of you intact, and have the control in the relationship.
> 
> Think about what I'm saying, even though it may make you angry to hear it. And then ask yourself if what you did was fair.


To be fair, according to her posts, both men were on 'equal' footing. She wasn't that into either of them.

But that raises the question of why she gave it away for free to the other guy but waited and waited and waited for the first guy.

The 'good girl' act is blown. I'm sure she is, in most respects, a good girl. But she has damaged the relationship very badly.

I wish her luck in the next one. Because even if she stays with this guy, that old relationship is dead. IF he stays, she is now just the woman he has sex with...and he is going to pay a lot less for the privilege.

So Lonnie, expect there to be a VAST change in whatever you continue to have with this guy if you are lucky enough to keep him.


----------



## bandit.45

NextTimeAround said:


> The hope here is that either you men won't find out or you will be impressed that someone else wanted us.
> 
> I had started a thread about this on the men's board back in December, i think. Some women were contemplating taking an FB while they keep the one that they really want at arm's length for a while.


Yeah I remember that. 

I had to look up at the header of the page to make sure I was still on TAM and not on D0cC00l. And some of those female posters were gals I really respected. They lost my respect that day....


----------



## sandc

LonnieHere said:


> I didn't hear from him this morning so i called him and we agreed to get together for lunch and discuss things. I wasn't in the mood to go back to work after that so i came home. I've skimmed most of the responses cause i haven't had time to read each one but i will
> 
> Anyway, lunch was really awkward and there were alot of like really uncomfortable silences. When we did talk it was sort of worse. He feels crappy that i did a guy he hates. That led to him saying what was i thinking if i thought that guy was cool and other stuff.
> 
> *I told him it was a mistake and that it didn't mean anything. And that is absolutely true - it didn't it was just physical. *


This is where you just dug your hole deeper. He will want to know what will prevent another bout of... "it didn't mean anything." Sex does mean something. It's not a handshake.



LonnieHere said:


> He wanted to know how quickly the other guy "got there" and i sort of skirted the issue cause i didn't want to hurt him. So he figured the other guy and i were quick off the mark. And then i got what i knew was coming. He asked why i made him wait and all i could say was that i thought we were special together and wanted to start our relationship on a solid basis. To say he didn't see it that way is an understatement. *He said we dated and wined and dined and he had to wait while the unspecial guy got sex right away.*


And this is what every man would want to know. Every man who thought he was going to be able to make something special with you.



LonnieHere said:


> He called me a deceitful so and so who got f-ed by a piece of crap. He got kind of quiet after that and then said he had to get back to work. I said if we can talk some morelater and he said like whatever.
> 
> The truth is *i never wanted to hurt him but know i did*. I just really want to make this right and make it up to him


Again, I think you need to just chalk this one up to life experiences. When you meet someone that you think may be "the one", don't go around and test the waters to see if you're right. That's just sh!tty. 

Tell you what, find a woman you don't like and let him give her something he never gave you. Fair enough?


----------



## xakulax

LonnieHere said:


> The truth is i never wanted to hurt him but know i did. I just really want to *make this right and make it up to him*





Simply answer cut him loose I don't think this can be fixed with i'm sorry and it didn't mean anything you have basically told him he was option B *NO MAN WANTS THIS!!* offer to end the relationship and see what his response is.


----------



## Blondilocks

"But that raises the question of why she gave it away for free to the other guy but waited and waited and waited for the first guy."

Gave it away for free? Please. The guy turned her on. That's it. Finito. Should she have charged him? Do you think the food and wine earned the now bf first crack?

Obviously, her now current guy wasn't turning her on at the time. In other words, she wasn't that into him at THAT time.

I get that some of the guys here think she is a reprehensible excuse for a human being. But, why? Are you projecting your own insecurities/hurts onto her actions? Is it because most guys expect a blowjob by the end of the first date?


----------



## LonnieHere

He was (IS) NOT "option B" like alot of you are saying. He was a really good guy that i had a great connection with and i really saw a future with. That doesn't mean i disrespected him or treated him poorly or whatever. We were together all the time once we got serious and i knew he had the same feelings for me as i had for him. The sex thing, yes, that was wrong. I did make him wait but it wasn't just to put on an act like some of you are saying to make him think i was a "good girl." With HIM I was (AM) a good girl and he really helped me get there.

When we first met i guess i wasn't too good and yeah it was fast with the jerk but it's not like it was pre planned. In the past sometimes if i felt like it, i did, if that makes sense. I'm not that woman any more. I'm better and i want my guy to see that. We love each other and i don't want to "let him go" like you guys are saying.


----------



## MattMatt

ScarletBegonias said:


> tongue in cheek my dear.Proper speech should resemble, "For the sake of openness I want you to be aware I'm not ready to be exclusive at this time in my life."


I had almost those exact words from the woman who was my first LTR girl friend.


----------



## DoktorFun

LonnieHere said:


> I've started going through all the comments. Lots of people are mentioning how i say my guy is my soul mate and how can he be if i treated him that way. Well, when we started dating i liked him alot but it's not like i instantly decided we were soul mates. I came to realize this over the course of our relationship during which i realized that he really IS the one for me AND that i was attracted to all the wrong sorts of guys before he came into my life. And one of those wrong guys was the "other guy." I f-ed up. I know this and i told him so. i want to prove to him now that i'm different than before and that he really helped me get to a better place.



Dear Lonnie. 

*F*ck Your Boyfriend as soon as you can* and many times! 
*I am deadly serious here^*

If you do not, you will be single again...


----------



## LonnieHere

Jeesh everyone!! Blondielocks just said maybe most guys expect a blowjob at the end of the first date. Well, my guy DID NOT! I really respected him for that cause most previous guys did expect.

(Also, the jerk really was not all that - kind of far from it actually. So it's not like i was madly in lust with him.)

So anyway, my guy was, is, and will forever be, special. But i get it completely that he doesn't feel all that special cause i was quick with the jerk and not him. So if anybody has constructive ideas on how to deal with that, i really am all ears! Thanks


----------



## LonnieHere

Doctorfun talked about sex in the "now". I think we have an excellent bedroom chemistry but OK i could probably spice it up a notch. Point taken.


----------



## MattMatt

lisab0105 said:


> If the OP was a man and talking about 2 women...I would bet every dollar I have that the comments would be very, very different. But that is nothing new for this place.


Not from me it wouldn't. Cheating is cheating.


----------



## happi_g_more2

LonnieHere said:


> He was (IS) NOT "option B" like alot of you are saying. He was a really good guy that i had a great connection with and i really saw a future with. That doesn't mean i disrespected him or treated him poorly or whatever. We were together all the time once we got serious and i knew he had the same feelings for me as i had for him. The sex thing, yes, that was wrong. I did make him wait but it wasn't just to put on an act like some of you are saying to make him think i was a "good girl." With HIM I was (AM) a good girl and he really helped me get there.
> 
> When we first met i guess i wasn't too good and yeah it was fast with the jerk but it's not like it was pre planned. In the past sometimes if i felt like it, i did, if that makes sense. I'm not that woman any more. I'm better and i want my guy to see that. We love each other and i don't want to "let him go" like you guys are saying.


I think you can stop trying to explain your position/reasoning. We all get it. What you dont seem to get is how wrong it is/was that you are/were a good/bad girl now/back then. We are just trying to give you perspective. There is NOTHING you can do to fix this. Im tellin ya, NOTHING. This something he has to work out on his own now. From experience, I dont think he'll be back....but maybe he will. Some dudes dont get super hung up on that stuff. Most dudes, its a full on deal breaker. Whether you agree or not, this is the classic repercussion of falling into todays sex it up culture. You found mr right and now your about to loose him because you chose to have a casual sex life. Being single and out there and sexually active is one thing. But when you are too loose with your judgement regarding who you are having sex with and what point in the relationship.,.,.,.,.well, you end up dealing with stuff like this.


----------



## bandit.45

JCD said:


> *To be fair, according to her posts, both men were on 'equal' footing. She wasn't that into either of them.*But that raises the question of why she gave it away for free to the other guy but waited and waited and waited for the first guy.
> 
> The 'good girl' act is blown. I'm sure she is, in most respects, a good girl. But she has damaged the relationship very badly.
> 
> I wish her luck in the next one. Because even if she stays with this guy, that old relationship is dead. IF he stays, she is now just the woman he has sex with...and he is going to pay a lot less for the privilege.
> 
> So Lonnie, expect there to be a VAST change in whatever you continue to have with this guy if you are lucky enough to keep him.


I call bull on that. A woman knows, almost instinctively and immediately, when she has met a guy who she thinks would make good marriage material. It doesn't take ten dates for her to figure it out. She usually sees it in the first 30 minutes upon first meeting. 

She slept with the scumbag because he was a bad boy, turned her on and she wanted to have a fun romp with no strings attached. She justs needs to admit it, learn from it and never make this mistake again.


----------



## bandit.45

Blondilocks said:


> "But that raises the question of why she gave it away for free to the other guy but waited and waited and waited for the first guy."
> 
> Gave it away for free? Please. The guy turned her on. That's it. Finito. Should she have charged him? Do you think the food and wine earned the now bf first crack?
> 
> Obviously, her now current guy wasn't turning her on at the time. In other words, she wasn't that into him at THAT time.
> 
> *I agree with you up to this point. But the following below is YOU projecting on us. No one is calling her a wh0re. She made a mistake, a stupid mistake, and she needs to learn from it and never repeat it again*.
> 
> 
> I get that some of the guys here think she is a reprehensible excuse for a human being. But, why? Are you projecting your own insecurities/hurts onto her actions? Is it because most guys expect a blowjob by the end of the first date?


----------



## Fozzy

Lonnie, can you please describe the circumstances leading to your boyfriend finding out about this?


----------



## happi_g_more2

DoktorFun said:


> Dear Lonnie.
> 
> *F*ck Your Boyfriend as soon as you can* and many times!
> *I am deadly serious here^*
> 
> If you do not, you will be single again...


Dude, he barely had lunch with her. You think he is ready to hop on and have sex. Dudes at home picture Lumbergh fvcking her (Office Space reference)


----------



## Hicks

To say it was just physical shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of your man, and men in general.


----------



## happi_g_more2

bandit.45 said:


> I call bull on that. A woman knows, almost instinctively and immediately, when she has met a guy who she thinks would make good marriage material. It doesn't take ten dates for her to figure it out. She usually sees it in the first 30 minutes upon first meeting.
> 
> She slept with the scumbag because he was a bad boy, turned her on and she wanted to have a nasty, fun romp with no strings attached. She justs needs to admit it, learn from it and never make this mistake again.


Ive never heard that about marriage, but I can attest to it with sex. Chicks know if they will fvck a guy within seconds of meeting of them. Its like a subconscious bad fruit detector. Ive heard many girls talk about it and have had experience with it myself. I slept with 1 woman that literally rolled over after and said "i knew we'd end up in bed together the second i met you" Anyway, just sayin/


----------



## MattMatt

LonnieHere said:


> He was (IS) NOT "option B" like alot of you are saying. He was a really good guy that i had a great connection with and i really saw a future with. That doesn't mean i disrespected him or treated him poorly or whatever. We were together all the time once we got serious and i knew he had the same feelings for me as i had for him. The sex thing, yes, that was wrong. I did make him wait but it wasn't just to put on an act like some of you are saying to make him think i was a "good girl." With HIM I was (AM) a good girl and he really helped me get there.
> 
> When we first met i guess i wasn't too good and yeah it was fast with the jerk but it's not like it was pre planned. In the past sometimes if i felt like it, i did, if that makes sense. I'm not that woman any more. I'm better and i want my guy to see that. We love each other and i don't want to "let him go" like you guys are saying.


You *did* disrespect him. You *did* treat him poorly.

And telling him it meant nothing? *That was like an iced knife to his heart. Not good.*

Your boyfriend should be posting about what you did to him in the Coping With Infidelity sub-forum an TAM.


----------



## tacoma

LonnieHere said:


> Doctorfun talked about sex in the "now". I think we have an excellent bedroom chemistry but OK i could probably spice it up a notch. Point taken.


The only thing you can do is hope he is the doormat you took him for when you first got together because if he isn't, you're done.


----------



## MattMatt

LonnieHere said:


> Jeesh everyone!! Blondielocks just said maybe most guys expect a blowjob at the end of the first date. Well, my guy DID NOT! I really respected him for that cause most previous guys did expect.
> 
> (Also, the jerk really was not all that - kind of far from it actually. So it's not like i was madly in lust with him.)
> 
> So anyway, my guy was, is, and will forever be, special. But i get it completely that he doesn't feel all that special cause i was quick with the jerk and not him. So if anybody has constructive ideas on how to deal with that, i really am all ears! Thanks


Couples Counselling. Perhaps individual counselling, too.

And because you are coping with the results of your infidelity, you might ask the moderators to move your thread to the CWI sub-forum. More expertise, there, you see.


----------



## xakulax

LonnieHere said:


> Jeesh everyone!! Blondielocks just said maybe most guys expect a blowjob at the end of the first date. Well, my guy DID NOT! I really respected him for that cause most previous guys did expect.
> 
> (Also, the jerk really was not all that - kind of far from it actually. So it's not like i was madly in lust with him.)
> 
> So anyway, my guy was, is, and will forever be, special. But i get it completely that he doesn't feel all that special cause i was quick with the jerk and not him. So if anybody has constructive ideas on how to deal with that, i really am all ears! Thanks




OP I understand this is how you feel about your relationship but this is not how your bf see it now or in the future.You didn't mean to hurt him but you did whether It was intentional or not dose not matter now *men view action not words* and your past action are screaming at him that he was an second option to a man he despises *why didn't you simply tell him you where seeing someone ells at the time ? *did you tell other guy you where seeing someone ells? these are the question running threw his mind right now and I don't think you fully understand the amount damage your action have done to this relationship it's not a matter of sex it a matter of transparency which is vital in any good relationship and your action have demonstrated a lack of transparency.


I'M sorry but I don't think this can be fixed


----------



## Ripper

Basically, the OP just got knocked off the pedestal her boyfriend placed her on. Now that the blinders are off he probably doesn't like what he is seeing.

Like someone else already stated, some guys don't care about sexual history. Others don't like finding out their significant other is fresh off the carousel. 

Now I'm off, before the "sisterhood" finds me.


----------



## bandit.45

happi_g_more2 said:


> Ive never heard that about marriage, but I can attest to it with sex. Chicks know if they will fvck a guy within seconds of meeting of them. Its like a subconscious bad fruit detector. Ive heard many girls talk about it and have had experience with it myself. I slept with 1 woman that literally rolled over after and said "i knew we'd end up in bed together the second i met you" Anyway, just sayin/


No, I agree with you. 

And if the woman feels within the first few minutes that the guy is good marriage material (new Porsche parked in her driveway, fat wallet and wearing a Tag watch and a new Canali suit) then she will most likely not have sex with him... so he will not think she is some sexually adventurous girl who will just sleep with any guy for the fun of it.


----------



## happi_g_more2

MattMatt said:


> Couples Counselling. Perhaps individual counselling, too.
> 
> And because you are coping with the results of your infidelity, you might ask the moderators to move your thread to the CWI sub-forum. More expertise, there, you see.


I still dont really see this as cheating. I do see it as a young woman making a really bad choice based on today's loose moral culture. Now she has to deal with the repercussions. What she should do is not date for a while, then when she is ready, look for someone with no previous to this cluster F she created


----------



## bandit.45

MattMatt said:


> Couples Counselling. Perhaps individual counselling, too.
> 
> And because you are coping with the results of your infidelity, you might ask the moderators to move your thread to the CWI sub-forum. More expertise, there, you see.


But its not really infidelity...

Just stupidity and horniness...


----------



## JCD

Blondilocks said:


> "But that raises the question of why she gave it away for free to the other guy but waited and waited and waited for the first guy."
> 
> Gave it away for free? Please. The guy turned her on. That's it. Finito. Should she have charged him? Do you think the food and wine earned the now bf first crack?
> 
> Obviously, her now current guy wasn't turning her on at the time. In other words, she wasn't that into him at THAT time.
> 
> I get that some of the guys here think she is a reprehensible excuse for a human being. But, why? Are you projecting your own insecurities/hurts onto her actions? Is it because most guys expect a blowjob by the end of the first date?



Blink blink. What?

She isn't a reprehensible person. She did a bad relationship mistake. She took a relationship for granted and made a guy wait for sex.

She did not hold the other man to the same standard and I have not heard any valid reason why this is so except 'she was turned on by him'.

Well guess what? There are a LOT of sexy guys out there. BF has zero reason to believe it will not happen again if she didn't have the self control then.

She says she has it. I hope this is true.

And no, I do not believe women 'owe' sex to men automatically. But if I, as a relationship, am constantly being put on 'hold' and the other guy always is getting the call in immediately...it gives me a data point in the realities of the relationship...and it doesn't look very good for me.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Lonnie you are looking for a simple fix that is fast so that your "soul mate" will "Just get over it". From how you describe your "soul mate" it is not going to happen. If YOU are able to reconcile, YOU are going to have to work very hard and deal with this for a LONG time.

Are you willing to do that and put in the effort?

Your soul mate feels you cheated on him. Even though you say you weren't exclusive at the time.

He is going to have mind movies of you with the other guy for a long time.

He may want to know what you did sexually with the other guy are you willing to tell him that, or do you feel that it is private?

One of his issues as he thought you were special and treated you with respect but you took that gift of his respect and threw it away by doing it with a low-life who you even admit it was for "Just Sex" 

He is now thinking what a "Fool" he was for "Respecting You". He now does not Respect you and you have to regain that respect. 

If he is willing to try and get back with you you have to be completely open with him, if you hod back and he later finds out it is over.

He will still get angry if he tries to get back with you and you have to help him work through this anger. Are you willing to do that?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I'm curious if she is more adventurous with her boyfriend or more so with the other man. I think she could possibly have a chance with the boyfriend if she could truthfully say that she does way more than she ever did with him. Of course, I actually suspect it's the opposite and I'm sure the boyfriend does too. He likely assumes that she did all kinds of crazy stuff that she likes doing with the other guy, while maintaining a good girl image for him.


----------



## LonnieHere

Ok maybe counselling would be good. I'll try and bring that up.

You know, it's pretty cruel to call him a doormat like Tahoma did. He's not. He's just not. He has his act together in life and is doing very well in a competitive part of the financial markets sector. He runs a group that has rocked for the past couple of years. He's also plenty attractive - he just doesn't play off his looks or career. That's more stuff about him i respect. I don't want to say any more than that. 

Also, lots of people keep bringing up the timing thing. So here is the deal and im not going to talk about it again. I met my boyfriend. We started seeing each other. A week or so before that i met the jerk, nothing happened, we met at a party. He got my number. He called me i think a week or so later and we got together. We got intimate the second time we got together. We were intimate a few times and it ended about two weeks after we started. During that time, yes, i went out with my guy. Yes, during that time i didn't get intimate with my guy. We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating. So that's the time line thing.


----------



## sandc

LonnieHere said:


> We love each other and i don't want to "let him go" like you guys are saying.


Why don't you ask him what he wants? He and we already know what you want. What does he want?


----------



## happi_g_more2

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm curious if she is more adventurous with her boyfriend or more so with the other man. I think she could possibly have a chance with the boyfriend if she could truthfully say that she does way more than she ever did with him. Of course, I actually suspect it's the opposite and I'm sure the boyfriend does too. He likely assumes that she did all kinds of crazy stuff that she likes doing with the other guy, while maintaining a good girl image for him.


I wouldnt believe a word out of her mouth with regards to that. For the same reasons that confessions under distress are inadmissible.,.,.,.sometimes people will say anything to save their asses. Unless BF is 100% confident that he is pornstar caliber in the sack, anything she says will be pointless. The reality is, they were probably about the same in the sack and, as time went on, sex got really good with BF cause thats how sex works. It gets better and better with the person you love. If she decided to be with POSOM, sex probably would have gotten better and better as well.


----------



## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> No, I agree with you.
> 
> And if the woman feels within the first few minutes that the guy is good marriage material (new Porsche parked in her driveway, fat wallet and wearing a Tag watch and a new Canali suit) then she will most likely not have sex with him... so he will not think she is some sexually adventurous girl who will just sleep with any guy for the fun of it.



Disagree, my AZ brother.

We know within a few seconds if you are somebody we would f$ck, but we have no way of knowing whether you'd really make a good husband. The best circumstances happen when we meet someone we really want to f$ck, then find out he's a great guy later. Some women make an initial decision based on things besides sex (nice, good job, etc) because we're raised to do that. In my view it's a mistake though, because ultimately many women end up with men they're not that attracted to and their poor sexless men end up here on TAM...Of course the flip side is that many men make a decision based on sex and beauty (and nothing else) and find out she's not a good person 3 kids later, but I digress.
When I met my hb I really wanted to sleep with him; I only found out later he was a great guy. 9 years later I still really want to sleep with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happi_g_more2

lifeistooshort said:


> Disagree, my AZ brother.
> 
> We know within a few seconds if you are somebody we would f$ck, but we have no way of knowing whether you'd really make a good husband. The best circumstances happen when we meet someone we really want to f$ck, then find out he's a great guy later. Some women make an initial decision based on things besides sex (nice, good job, etc) because we're raised to do that. In my view it's a mistake though, because ultimately many women end up with men they're not that attracted to and their poor sexless men end up here on TAM...Of course the flip side is that many men make a decision based on sex and beauty (and nothing else) and find out she's not a good person 3 kids later, but I digress.
> When I met my hb I really wanted to sleep with him; I only found out later he was a great guy. 9 years later I still really want to sleep with him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


word!


----------



## bandit.45

Lonnie I don't think you are loose or a slvt. 

I do think you have some learning to do about respect and how to treat people. 

What really bothers me is what you just said....

" I_* met my boyfriend. We started seeing each other. A week or so before that i met the jerk, nothing happened, we met at a party. He got my number. He called me i think a week or so later and we got together. We got intimate the second time we got together. We were intimate a few times and it ended about two weeks after we started. During that time, yes, i went out with my guy. Yes, during that time i didn't get intimate with my guy. We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating*_"

I have a hard time understanding why, if you really liked your boyfriend and saw a future with him, why you thought it was a good idea to be giving it up for another guy on the side while making him wait for it. 

That attitude to me shows a lack of empathy. And that is scary. 

How would you feel if your boyfriend was shagging another chick on the side while making you feel like you were the object and target of all his affection and attention? 

Think about that. Internalize it. 

You would be hurt as hell, pissed off to no end, and you know it. You would be asking yourself why the other girl was so hot that he wanted to have sex with her and not you. You would dump him him like a bag of spoiled onions and never look back.


----------



## happi_g_more2

sandc said:


> Why don't you ask him what he wants? He and we already know what you want. What does he want?


Im guess that since lunch today didnt end with a "sorry honey, i know you have a past and I except that", this dude has no clue what he wants. 

Lonnie has doesnt have to "let him go", but she has to "let him be". There is nothing she can do about it at this point.


----------



## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> Disagree, my AZ brother.
> 
> We know within a few seconds if you are somebody we would f$ck, but we have no way of knowing whether you'd really make a good husband. The best circumstances happen when we meet someone we really want to f$ck, then find out he's a great guy later. Some women make an initial decision based on things besides sex (nice, good job, etc) because we're raised to do that. In my view it's a mistake though, because ultimately many women end up with men they're not that attracted to and their poor sexless men end up here on TAM...Of course the flip side is that many men make a decision based on sex and beauty (and nothing else) and find out she's not a good person 3 kids later, but I digress.
> When I met my hb I really wanted to sleep with him; I only found out later he was a great guy. 9 years later I still really want to sleep with him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Maybe we actually agree with each other. Maybe it comes down to whether or not a guy or a gal has certain principals or not... maybe it comes down to personal ethics.


----------



## xakulax

LonnieHere said:


> Ok maybe counselling would be good. I'll try and bring that up.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, lots of people keep bringing up the timing thing. So here is the deal and im not going to talk about it again. I met my boyfriend. We started seeing each other. A week or so before that i met the jerk, nothing happened, we met at a party. He got my number. He called me i think a week or so later and we got together. We got intimate the second time we got together. We were intimate a few times and it ended about two weeks after we started. During that time, yes, i went out with my guy. Yes, during that time i didn't get intimate with my guy. We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating. So that's the time line thing.



I have a question OP did the other guy know you where seeing somebody ells?


----------



## happi_g_more2

bandit.45 said:


> Lonnie I don't think you are loose or a slvt.
> 
> I do think you have some learning to do about respect and how to treat people.
> 
> What really bothers me is what you just said....
> 
> " I_*
> How would you feel if your boyfriend was shagging another chick on the side while making you feel like you were the object and target of all his affection and attention?
> *_


_*

Not "another chick". "Another chick that you know, work with, and despise".

Now internalize it. 

no wait

Lonnie: "God damn I hate wendy, you know, from the next cube. ive worked with her for 3 years and never met a bigger cvnt in my life"

Lonnie BF: "Seriously, I know, I was fvckin her right before kind of during the time we got together and really couldnt stand her. such a looser"

Ok - NOW internalize it*_


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> "But that raises the question of why she gave it away for free to the other guy but waited and waited and waited for the first guy."
> 
> Gave it away for free? Please. The guy turned her on. That's it. Finito. Should she have charged him? Do you think the food and wine earned the now bf first crack?
> 
> Obviously, her now current guy wasn't turning her on at the time. In other words, she wasn't that into him at THAT time.
> 
> I get that some of the guys here think she is a reprehensible excuse for a human being. But, why? Are you projecting your own insecurities/hurts onto her actions? Is it because most guys expect a blowjob by the end of the first date?


 I don't get the paying for sex thing either. However...
If I found out that my girlfriend of a year Was busily banging A scumbag, Or anyone for that matter, During the first month I was dating her And she didn't think it was important to tell me Before I took her out And definitely before we got serious, She would be yesterday's news.

Have sex with a scumbag And learn from it before you date me.
Don't start dating me and another guy at the same time And not tell me. Especially when she is banging him And then going on dates with me and kissing me.

This guy has to be wired differently than me To put up with crappy behavior like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Slept with him on the second date.

Had multiple sex sessions within a weeks period.

Lonnie...I like you. This is bad. And I get why you don't want to talk about it. You are ashamed and that is not a comfortable place to be.


Here are my suggestions to you.

Tell BF exactly how you felt about him overall. Also tell him DETAILS about what started changing your mind about him.

Also give details about why you broke it off with this other guy so quickly. Exactly what you found 'lacking' in him. 

Unfortunately, while there might be a rational reason to have a 'one off' with the other man, explaining why you went back is a bit of a stretch.

This will lead to a conversation about what attracted you to him in the first place. You don't want to have that conversation, but I can't see how you can avoid it.

So explain honestly, but also reinforce the traits you discovered that you disliked.


And just to make this PERFECTLY clear: you can never be near that guy again, never have contact with him, and yes, hardest of all for women, NEVER be anything but icily civil to him AT BEST.

You can NEVER make your BF think for a moment that you have a single fond thought of that guy.


----------



## xakulax

There is something else worth mentioning that's probably rattling his cage to the possible increase risk of an STD especially with someone who is a known womanizer do you think op you where the only woman he was seeing at the time? I am not saying you have one but this is something going thew your BF mind right now.


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> If her guy was so special right off the bat, she wouldn't have been knocking knees with someone else. It sounds like she came to appreciate her guy over time (he grew on her).
> 
> Besides, maybe she didn't know the two guys were arch enemies. There is nothing wrong with dating two people at the same time as long as no one thinks they're in an exclusive relationship. Just because a girl is wined and dined does not give a guy exclusive rights to her.
> 
> It sounds like her guy is just as upset about the 'who' as the fact that he didn't get his first.
> 
> Tell him that you saved the best for last.


 She should have told him She was banging another guy While she was dating him. There is something wrong with dating two people at once Especially if you're having sex with one of them And not having full disclosure.

You wouldn't want to know If a guy you're dating for a month Was actually dating a sleaze ball At the same time And having sex with her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolf1974

LonnieHere said:


> Ok maybe counselling would be good. I'll try and bring that up.
> 
> You know, it's pretty cruel to call him a doormat like Tahoma did. He's not. He's just not. He has his act together in life and is doing very well in a competitive part of the financial markets sector. He runs a group that has rocked for the past couple of years. He's also plenty attractive - he just doesn't play off his looks or career. That's more stuff about him i respect. I don't want to say any more than that.
> 
> Also, lots of people keep bringing up the timing thing. So here is the deal and im not going to talk about it again. I met my boyfriend. We started seeing each other. A week or so before that i met the jerk, nothing happened, we met at a party. He got my number. He called me i think a week or so later and we got together. We got intimate the second time we got together. We were intimate a few times and it ended about two weeks after we started. During that time, yes, i went out with my guy. Yes, during that time i didn't get intimate with my guy. We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating. So that's the time line thing.


Well this is much more clear but unfortunately much worse. I thought you dated jerk guy before starting to date now bf and two overlapped. Why would you be seeing someone you had a connection with then go sleep with another guy?.... This may not be true definition of cheating but I'm wondering if the BF doesn't feel it that way


----------



## MattMatt

LonnieHere said:


> Ok maybe counselling would be good. I'll try and bring that up.
> 
> You know, it's pretty cruel to call him a doormat like Tahoma did. He's not. He's just not. He has his act together in life and is doing very well in a competitive part of the financial markets sector. He runs a group that has rocked for the past couple of years. He's also plenty attractive - he just doesn't play off his looks or career. That's more stuff about him i respect. I don't want to say any more than that.
> 
> Also, lots of people keep bringing up the timing thing. So here is the deal and im not going to talk about it again. I met my boyfriend. We started seeing each other. A week or so before that i met the jerk, nothing happened, we met at a party. He got my number. He called me i think a week or so later and we got together. We got intimate the second time we got together. We were intimate a few times and it ended about two weeks after we started. During that time, yes, i went out with my guy. Yes, during that time i didn't get intimate with my guy. We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating. So that's the time line thing.


Lonnie, trust me on this one. He will think he was your plan b. "Well, if the Lothario doesn't work out, Mr Reliable will always be there."

And if there is bad history between the two of them, your boy friend *will* assume that the Lothario bedded you in order to score a point over your boy friend. 

Incidentally, is that possible? Did he make a play for you because he knew who was dating you? If so, that's quite vile and reprehensible behaviour by him.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Blondilocks said:


> "But that raises the question of why she gave it away for free to the other guy but waited and waited and waited for the first guy."
> 
> Gave it away for free? Please. The guy turned her on. That's it. Finito. Should she have charged him? Do you think the food and wine earned the now bf first crack?
> 
> Obviously, her now current guy wasn't turning her on at the time. In other words, she wasn't that into him at THAT time.
> 
> *But that is not what she said. What she said was that she was dating him and wanted to do it right. Now maybe that is a little rewriting history on her part but that is what she originally submitted.*
> 
> I get that some of the guys here think she is a reprehensible excuse for a human being. But, why? Are you projecting your own insecurities/hurts onto her actions? Is it because most guys expect a blowjob by the end of the first date?
> 
> *I don't think she's reprehensible and I for one would not expect anything by the end of the first date. However, I do think it would have been better if she had been upfront that he wasn't the only one she was seeing ... that she might also see other people.
> 
> I'm curious if that was a question he asked early on and what her answer was. I know for me that if she didn't offer the information herself, after a few dates I would certainly have asked.*


----------



## chillymorn

If he kicks you to the curb hes not a door mat,

if my son asked me what to do in this situation I'd tell him there are plenty of fish in the sea. why keep one that another used and threw back.


----------



## larry.gray

chillymorn said:


> If he kicks you to the curb hes not a door mat,
> 
> if my son asked me what to do in this situation I'd tell him there are plenty of fish in the sea. why keep one that another used and threw back.


And just for Lisa - My daughter would get similar advice....


----------



## JCD

xakulax said:


> There is something else worth mentioning that's probably rattling his cage to the possible increase risk of an STD especially with someone who is a known womanizer do you think op you where the only woman he was seeing at the time? I am not saying you have one but this is something going thew your BF mind right now.


It has been a year. I think we can safely say that if one hasn't shown up by now, it is unlikely to.

Don't make things worse than they already are. Even POS womanizers are smart enough to cover up.


----------



## lovelygirl

bandit.45 said:


> Sad story.
> 
> I doubt he will want to stay with you Lonnie. If he is a self respecting guy then he won't.
> 
> There is no way to erase this from his mind Lonnie. There is nothing you can do to adequately explain to him why you had sex with the other guy at the drop of a hat and made him work for it.
> 
> The truth you don't want to admit is what I said to you before: you knew this guy was a player and womanizer when you slept with him. You used him and let him use you in ways you probably would not let BF do sexually, because BF is the stable, sure thing. The other guy meant nothing to you, and therefore you don't care about his opinion of you or if he thinks you are a nasty slvt in bed.
> 
> But your BF is different. You had to make sure his good opinion of you was peerless and set in stone. You probably gave him good, serviceable vanilla sex to keep him hooked and in his proper place. You have to continue this good-girl act if you want to keep his good opinion of you intact, and have the control in the relationship.
> 
> Think about what I'm saying, even though it may make you angry to hear it. And then ask yourself if what you did was fair.


BAM!!
The truth!


----------



## manticore

Lonnie I am going to be brutally honest here, I don't see really hope to overcome this unless there is serious commitment from both parts, and taking this other guy completely out of the picture (and more if this guy is like I think he is)

but before that, you have to face with honesty what you did, if you don't and still try to protect your stance instead of healing your relationship you can be sure that it will be over.



LonnieHere said:


> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. *I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right.* The other guy just sort of happened.


I saw that you wrote in another post that you don't consider it cheating because you hadn't slept with your actual boyfriend yet, and technically this may be truth, but if you face your boyfriend with "technically I did not betray you because you and me had not been intimate yet", the only thing you will do is show him how little you understand him, he will feel even more manipulated by you and you will only reforce the thought that the best he can do is get away from you now that he have the chance.

face the truth, you were already dating for a month and you made him wait, made him feel that he had to try harder, that you were forging a solid relationship, but how can it be solid if you were sleeping with someone else little before you finally were intitmate with him? and this supposing that you did really never slept with the both guys at the same time, in your post you said that you slept with this guy for about 2 weeks, so one month plus 2 weeks, is 1 1/2 months and I don't think you sleep with your now boyfriend one day after ending things with this guy right? so you gave your boyfriend impresion of forging a solid relationship during 2 months while sleeping with someone else, that is cheating in anyones's dictionary, in the very very lest is dishonest manipulation. So don't be stubborn and be humble about this fact or you will just drive your boyfriend away.



LonnieHere said:


> They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer. I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out. Sucks.


I know a Guy like that, I knew him since I was 26 (I am 31 now), hypocrital, womanizer, unethical, he is normally well liked becuase the first impression he gives is friendly, he always know how to talk you up and make you feel important (with both men and women), but at your back he will talk sh*t about you, he will brag about the women he have slept with and even will bring details about the body or physical attributions of his conquests, Ironically he disparages the women he have conquest, and if other guy is dating someone he already slept with, he will made disgustting comments like "he should try this or that on her" (obviously not to the guy dating the chick but to the other guys who look up to him).

The odds are that if your boyfriend does not like this guy and have made it open knowladge, then probably the feeling is mutual and this other guy is probably making comments about you and more if he knows that you were already dating your boyfriend when you had the sex encounters, I am guessing your boyfriend found by a third party. 

If the both of you really want to save your realationship you would have to make a leap of faith and make similar decissions as those made by married couples trying to save the marriage when there was infidelity in the relationship, he may have to change jobs (and of course industry) to stay away from this person who may trigger him or even purposely picking on him, trying to not intereact in anyway possible.

If this other guy is like the prick I know he would just not let the issue go, he will keep telling his "buddies" how your boyfriend's grilfriend was a notch in his belt when you two were already together, that can be really destructive to a man's pride and self steem.


----------



## jaharthur

LonnieHere said:


> Also, lots of people keep bringing up the timing thing. So here is the deal and im not going to talk about it again. I met my boyfriend. We started seeing each other. A week or so before that i met the jerk, nothing happened, we met at a party. He got my number. He called me i think a week or so later and we got together. We got intimate the second time we got together. We were intimate a few times and it ended about two weeks after we started. During that time, yes, i went out with my guy. Yes, during that time i didn't get intimate with my guy. We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating. So that's the time line thing.


Nope. This can't be saved if the boyfriend has self-respect. If you're honest with him you have to tell him this chronology and he'll be gone. How can he ever trust you?


----------



## ConanHub

LonnieHere said:


> Jeesh everyone!! Blondielocks just said maybe most guys expect a blowjob at the end of the first date. Well, my guy DID NOT! I really respected him for that cause most previous guys did expect.
> 
> (Also, the jerk really was not all that - kind of far from it actually. So it's not like i was madly in lust with him.)
> 
> So anyway, my guy was, is, and will forever be, special. But i get it completely that he doesn't feel all that special cause i was quick with the jerk and not him. So if anybody has constructive ideas on how to deal with that, i really am all ears! Thanks


 For starters admit you cheated. You probably aren't going to get very far with him Telling him it was a mistake But that you weren't cheating Or being deceitful. 

If you can at least acknowledge that You might have better talks with him at least.

If you're going to keep going on That banging another dude While you were dating your boyfriend at the same time Without telling him, Wasn't deceitful or cheating, Then I think you are done.

You forgot to let him know You were involved with somebody else.
It does not get more involved Then a penis in you does it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelygirl

Lonnie, you were hoping for the jerk to be something...until the moment he appeared to be NOTHING. 
In the mean time, your BF was waiting ...as a back-up plan. 

We thank you for your honesty up to this point...but we also understand that there's a part of your whole situation that you don't want to admit (maybe to yourself) and to us.

I'm a girl myself, and I can imagine what went through your mind the moment you were sleeping with the other guy. 
He was the bad guy, a womanizer whose opinion of you didn't really matter _to_ you. As long as you got hot sex, thrill, attention, passion..., it was all good. 

Unless you're giving your BF the same passion (IF NOT MORE) then I see no reason why he'd stay with you after this.

Why would I want a man who appreciated and gave more to a random girl while dating me at the time of speaking? It would mean he flattered her, gave her attention, pleasure...
Why would I allow myself to be seen ONLY as marriage material girl to cook for him, wash his clothes and give him babies? That's how it feels for women when they're plan B.

As for men, plan B is expressed through other examples but you get the idea how your BF is feeling.


----------



## ntamph

LonnieHere said:


> We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating.




AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ntamph

On a side note, I find it fascinating how some threads I can just read the OP and know with 100% certainty that the posters in the next 10, 15, 20 pages will be 90% one gender.


----------



## bandit.45

ntamph said:


> AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


Yep. That's the deathstroke right there....


----------



## MattMatt

ntamph said:


> On a side note, I find it fascinating how some threads I can just read the OP and know with 100% certainty that the posters in the next 10, 15, 20 pages will be 90% one gender.


Feel better for that interjection? Good! Glad to hear it! :smthumbup:


----------



## ntamph

bandit.45 said:


> Yep. That's the deathstroke right there....


Honestly, I think it's a troll. Granted, women (and some men though I can't imagine why) do this sort of thing all the time.

First, I would never wait MONTHS for sex with anyone. I would be OK with waiting if a woman made stupid decisions in the PAST and learned from them. I couldn't handle "mistakes" still happening while she was falling in love with her "soul mate."


----------



## xakulax

JCD said:


> It has been a year. I think we can safely say that if one hasn't shown up by now, it is unlikely to.
> 
> Don't make things worse than they already are. Even POS womanizers are smart enough to cover up.


That's why I said I am not saying she has one but this is something going thew her BF mind the risk taken


----------



## ntamph

I've said this before in many other threads but here I go again:

Ladies,

A mature man can understand that most people make really stupid decisions when they are young or when they are in a bad place. Men have deep dark secrets that they don't want to talk about either. I think it's unreasonable to hold someone to a standard that they didn't know existed until they met you.

I don't care about how many times a woman has done it, with who she has done it or how she has done it with another man before me. 

All I ask (and I know most men too) is that when you meet someone who you want to be serious or who you think might be "the one" you act like it a little. That means taking HIM seriously and not "spreading it around." I would even wait a while for sex if I could tell that she has been hurt and wants to build a real relationship this time.

But I won't think that if you're still ****ing Fabio hoping that it might work out while being unsure about me.


----------



## wilderness

The big problem if I were your fiance:

Your explanation cannot possibly be true. If you wanted to wait with him to 'make it right', you would have never done it with the other guy...thus making it wrong. Try being honest about why you did what you did.


----------



## alexm

LonnieHere said:


> Jeesh everyone!! Blondielocks just said maybe most guys expect a blowjob at the end of the first date. Well, my guy DID NOT! I really respected him for that cause most previous guys did expect.
> 
> (Also, the jerk really was not all that - kind of far from it actually. So it's not like i was madly in lust with him.)
> 
> So anyway, my guy was, is, and will forever be, special. But i get it completely that he doesn't feel all that special cause i was quick with the jerk and not him. So if anybody has constructive ideas on how to deal with that, i really am all ears! Thanks


I think there HAS been a lot of constructive ideas here, but you're not liking what people have to say 

I'll be frank - I do see, from time to time, people who come on here with something they need to be reassured about, to be told that what they did wasn't THAT bad, and it usually results from the guilt they are feeling. I think, with all due respect, that is what you are looking for. Hoping several people will reassure you that what you did wasn't anything your BF should get all worked up about, and that there's an easy fix.

The advice here is solid (though the wording of some of it may not appeal to you).

The other thing that you are missing is that your BF is (rightfully) pissed off at the entire situation - not just that you nailed some other dude a year ago.

So here he is, happily settled in with you, the woman he loves, who refers to him as her soul mate. He - a year later - finds out that this woman was dating another man for the first few weeks of their relationship AND slept with him several times AND that he's his Moriarty/Snidely Whiplash/Voldemort. So that all sucks.

But he's also pissed off that this is coming out now - not when you got serious with him, not when you started seeing him, etc. Now. When he's invested and comfortable and happy. I strongly suspect that he found this out from someone else other than you, and that you likely meant to keep this under wraps and away from him. I apologize if that is not the case, but even if it DID come from you, it's much too late. Your window for comfortably telling him about this is long, long gone.

Again, I'll be honest - I don't feel that you know much about men and what makes them tick. Therefore the general consensus that you should let him go is rather correct. You still need some learnin' to do.

Trust me, as someone who has been married to the wrong person, this type of thing hangs over a marriage like you wouldn't believe. For those of us who are romantics, we like to remember our first date(s), and when we fell in love. It's especially important the older we get, when our best days are behind us. He no longer has that memory.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Remember that dating is a lot like an extended job interview for marriage. You blew it on the interview and will probably get the rejection letter soon. Learn from your mistakes and have a better interview for the next prospect. Sorry.


----------



## larry.gray

JCD said:


> It has been a year. I think we can safely say that if one hasn't shown up by now, it is unlikely to.


:iagree: BUT that just means they got lucky, not that she didn't put him at risk for her fun.



JCD said:


> Don't make things worse than they already are. Even POS womanizers are smart enough to cover up.


They cover up for PIV, but not usually for a Monica Lewinsky. 

Since BF wasn't getting any his worry isn't what was in her vajayja but what was in her mouth right before he gave her their first kiss.


----------



## NextTimeAround

happi_g_more2 said:


> Not "another chick". "Another chick that you know, work with, and despise".
> 
> Now internalize it.
> 
> no wait
> 
> Lonnie: "God damn I hate wendy, you know, from the next cube. ive worked with her for 3 years and never met a bigger cvnt in my life"
> 
> *Lonnie BF: "Seriously, I know, I was fvckin her right before kind of during the time we got together and really couldnt stand her. such a looser"*
> 
> Ok - NOW internalize it



No, no, no..... the story line that gets under us women's skin is not that he would be f*cking her but that he would be wining and dining her and better still......
1. not get any sex at all AND
2. know that she is f*cking another guy at the same time

all the while​
Lonnie's soulmate is asking HER to pay for dates and doesn't give a $hit how she gets home for the dates until she finds out that the cvnt in the other cubicle got taxi fare.

and Lonnie BF explains it all away by saying
1. She was just a friend
2. I didn't like her all that much
3. I wanted you but I wanted to make sure that you didn't want me for my money (while I throw it around on this woman I don't care about)

and yes there are mind movies. I always wonder what the look on her face was when she twisted his arm to close a 3 figure bar tab for her and her friends. ..... and then she got pissed when he tried to kiss her after that......

Oh the nerve of [one of them]........ I guess it will depend on which side of this divide you've been when you fill in that blank......


----------



## NextTimeAround

ConanHub said:


> She should have told him She was banging another guy While she was dating him. *There is something wrong with dating two people at once Especially if you're having sex with one of them And not having full disclosure.*
> 
> You wouldn't want to know If a guy you're dating for a month Was actually dating a sleaze ball At the same time And having sex with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this is definitely why my (now) fiance was avoiding sex with me during the weeks that he was seeing his just a friend ex.

A lot of us women think that when a guy isn't gunning for the sex that he must somehow "respect" us. The irony here is that a lot of women apparently don't understand that a man could use a woman in other ways. 

Had my (now) fiance gone off with the other woman (after using me as a way to get her jealous), I'm sure he would have said "well, at least I didn't use you for sex."


----------



## LongWalk

Lonnie,

I haven't read everything on your thread because you are probably sick of all the analysis about how guys think about women. They don't like the idea of LTR with the mother of future children if she is promiscuous.

Your boyfriend is probably telling himself over and over that he has to be man and dump you, although it is hurting him.

Your chances of turning this around may not be so great... but it can't hurt to try.

How many partners have you had in total? How many LTR boyfriends? Did he talk about his experiences?

If you have never spoken about this, it is a topic that you might need to discuss if you are ever going to be a couple.

Assuming he did not come home and will not, you will need to wait before contacting him.

What do the women posters think the best time to contact him again is? Two weeks?


----------



## Hicks

It really comes down to whether you were making your BF wait for a few months. Holding out so he would think you were a good girl. If you did this, that certainly informed his opinion about who you are. And now, he has different information, completely contradicting his opinion. He needs time to process it. Right now he's very upset. Give it time, is best you can do. But don't say things like "it was just sex".


----------



## ScarletBegonias

LongWalk said:


> What do the women posters think the best time to contact him again is? Two weeks?


I don't think she should contact him at all.He didn't make her hot enough to want sex when she was having it with the other dude. She needs to leave him alone and let him find someone who is that hot for him.If she contacts him it will be for purely selfish reasons and not because she wants him to be happy.


----------



## JCD

Why are you asking women when she should get in touch with him? It's the MAN's opinion you need to worry about.


I would give him three days. Four tops. If they are a couple with a normal sex life, that is about how long it will take for him to miss sex.

Since YOU are here, Lonnie, I give you the advice. He will be more vulnerable, i.e. amenable to listening to what you have to say.

If you wait two weeks, he'll have likely gotten over you or had the time to stew into a deep and broad mad.

Right now he is shell shocked. Let him get it all out.


And you never answered how he discovered this.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

LonnieHere said:


> He has his act together in life and is doing very well in a competitive part of the financial markets sector. He runs a group that has rocked for the past couple of years. He's also plenty attractive - he just doesn't play off his looks or career. That's more stuff about him i respect. I don't want to say any more than that. He's plenty attractive? Call me crazy but that sentence is a red flag to me. Fast forward 10 years from now he'll still be successful but he'll be in a sexless marriage with a woman who thinks he's safe and ...plenty attractive.But not worth lusty after and f***ing like the "jerk" was.
> 
> Also, lots of people keep bringing up the timing thing. So here is the deal and im not going to talk about it again. I met my boyfriend. We started seeing each other. A week or so before that i met the jerk, nothing happened, we met at a party. He got my number. He called me i think a week or so later and we got together. We got intimate the second time we got together. We were intimate a few times and it ended about two weeks after we started. During that time, yes, i went out with my guy. Yes, during that time i didn't get intimate with my guy. We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating. So that's the time line thing.


Why call the other guy a jerk just bc he's a womanizer? He was good enough to get your skirt up within weeks of meeting him and you find out he isn't exclusive to anyone so he's a jerk?


----------



## NextTimeAround

Hicks said:


> It really comes down to whether you were making your BF wait for a few months. Holding out so he would think you were a good girl. If you did this, that certainly informed his opinion about who you are. And now, he has different information, completely contradicting his opinion. He needs time to process it. Right now he's very upset. Give it time, is best you can do. But don't say things like "it was just sex".


this is an interesting irony. If her withholding or delaying sex (whichever term you prefer) was key in the formation of his positive opinion of her (so much so that he saw a future with her), then, sadly, he will never have a positive opinion of her due to this new information that he received. 

Lonnie will have to hope and pray that he liked her for other reasons as well.

So the question becomes, is it worth the strategy to withhold sex from your soul mate while you're getting it from someone else. Obviously not.

Perhaps women should look at the other ways that a man finds the motivation to pursue an LTR with her...... and not try to have it both ways.


----------



## JCD

ScarletBegonias said:


> Why call the other guy a jerk just bc he's a womanizer? He was good enough to get your skirt up within weeks of meeting him and you find out he isn't exclusive to anyone so he's a jerk?


Small correction: it was one week. Second date? Two weeks of fun and then he was history for some reason.


----------



## JCD

Okay folks, let's back off a bit.

She had a very bad strategy for picking men before this guy. She admitted this. She is attempting to be a better person.

I would like to believe people can change so I applaud this about her.

That being said, while she may WANT to stay with this man, the choice isn't up to her any more. None of us can think of a 'trick' to make things right...and frankly, even if we knew one, we probably wouldn't say so, because it's HIS choice. Sorry to say, Lonnie, you made a choice early on in your relationship without discussing it with him. Now he gets the same freedom.

That being said, I want you to continue to try to better yourself and find a better quality of men. Change you picker. Even if you lose this guy, learn from the experience.


----------



## NextTimeAround

JCD said:


> Okay folks, let's back off a bit.
> 
> *She had a very bad strategy for picking men before this guy. * She admitted this. She is attempting to be a better person.
> 
> I would like to believe people can change so I applaud this about her.
> 
> That being said, while she may WANT to stay with this man, the choice isn't up to her any more. None of us can think of a 'trick' to make things right...and frankly, even if we knew one, we probably wouldn't say so, because it's HIS choice. Sorry to say, Lonnie, you made a choice early on in your relationship without discussing it with him. Now he gets the same freedom.
> 
> That being said, I want you to continue to try to better yourself and find a better quality of men. *Change you picker. * Even if you lose this guy, learn from the experience.


I don't think she had a bad picker. I think she just thought she could have it all and under the technicality that well "we're not formally declared exclusive yet."

And I do believe that a lot of women and men think that way.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> Okay folks, let's back off a bit.
> 
> She had a very bad strategy for picking men before this guy. She admitted this. She is attempting to be a better person.
> 
> I would like to believe people can change so I applaud this about her.


You're right.I'm being too harsh on her so I apologize.I imagine my harshness comes from knowing the actions of a few women cast a dark light on all women in the eyes of the men they've hurt.


----------



## JCD

ScarletBegonias said:


> You're right.I'm being too harsh on her so I apologize.I imagine my harshness comes from knowing the actions of a few women cast a dark light on all women in the eyes of the men they've hurt.


There's this strident cohort who firmly believe 'once a cheater, always a cheater' (even if this isn't technically the case here) and they sometimes throw it around hard and with impunity.

It's hard enough to conduct personal change without people always throwing doubts at you. So a bit of grace is also in order. I would RATHER she become a better person than rain on her parade. We don't need more bad people around.

That's all I am trying to say. She tried to change and she made a misstep along the way.

Doesn't mean she should stop trying.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> It's hard enough to conduct personal change without people always throwing doubts at you. So a bit of grace is also in order. I would RATHER she become a better person than rain on her parade. We don't need more bad people around.


I understand and agree.


----------



## U.E. McGill

I would be devastated personally. Not because of the "technicality" of being non-exclusive, but because all these ACTIONS say "second place". 

Remember ladies men judge (or at least should judge) by a woman's actions. 

Actions:
2 guys in the mix
Bangs guy 1
Turns out he's a big jerk
Stays with guy 2. 
Eventually intimate with guy 2

Sorry but I'd 'next!' You after that. After all it's only a year of time invested.


----------



## Caribbean Man

ntamph said:


> I've said this before in many other threads but here I go again:
> 
> Ladies,
> 
> A mature man can understand that most people make really stupid decisions when they are young or when they are in a bad place. Men have deep dark secrets that they don't want to talk about either. I think it's unreasonable to hold someone to a standard that they didn't know existed until they met you.
> 
> I don't care about how many times a woman has done it, with who she has done it or how she has done it with another man before me.
> 
> *All I ask (and I know most men too) is that when you meet someone who you want to be serious or who you think might be "the one" you act like it a little. That means taking HIM seriously and not "spreading it around." I would even wait a while for sex if I could tell that she has been hurt and wants to build a real relationship this time.*
> 
> But I won't think that if you're still ****ing Fabio hoping that it might work out while being unsure about me.


I think this post sums it up well,

It comes down to HONESTY.

That's all.


----------



## syhoybenden

The silver medal is the saddest medal of all.


----------



## DoF

LonnieHere said:


> I didn't hear from him this morning so i called him and we agreed to get together for lunch and discuss things. I wasn't in the mood to go back to work after that so i came home. I've skimmed most of the responses cause i haven't had time to read each one but i will
> 
> Anyway, lunch was really awkward and there were alot of like really uncomfortable silences. When we did talk it was sort of worse. He feels crappy that i did a guy he hates. That led to him saying what was i thinking if i thought that guy was cool and other stuff.
> 
> I told him it was a mistake and that it didn't mean anything. And that is absolutely true - it didn't it was just physical. He wanted to know how quickly the other guy "got there" and i sort of skirted the issue cause i didn't want to hurt him. So he figured the other guy and i were quick off the mark. And then i got what i knew was coming. He asked why i made him wait and all i could say was that i thought we were special together and wanted to start our relationship on a solid basis. To say he didn't see it that way is an understatement. He said we dated and wined and dined and he had to wait while the unspecial guy got sex right away. He called me a deceitful so and so who got f-ed by a piece of crap. He got kind of quiet after that and then said he had to get back to work. I said if we can talk some morelater and he said like whatever.
> 
> The truth is i never wanted to hurt him but know i did. I just really want to make this right and make it up to him


So he pretty much confirmed everything everyone has been telling you here.

You don't deserve him and your approach/attitude is still a bit off IMO.

He will never respect you again, sorry.


----------



## DoF

ScarletBegonias said:


> Why call the other guy a jerk just bc he's a womanizer? He was good enough to get your skirt up within weeks of meeting him and you find out he isn't exclusive to anyone so he's a jerk?


Agreed

Some blame the offender, but I always blame the enabler FIRST.

Without enablers there would be no offender.


----------



## Jellybeans

Ok I am still curious:

*HOW* DID SOULMATE BOYFRIEND find out about you sleeping with his nemesis? 

Did you say already or did I miss that post?

All you can do is come clean about everything and tell him you are only for him, the boyfriend. Answer any questions he has. If he decides to stay with you, great. If not, then you have to accept that and move on. In future situations, just be honest that you are seeing more than one person so that the other person doesn't think you are only seeing them. That is where the miscommunication and stuff gets weird. I personally would want to know if a man I am dating is seeing various women and sleeping with them. If he keeps it from me, especially after several dates, I wouldn't like that at all. I would feel duped. Oh and it goes w/o saying, but don't hang around the nemesis anymore. Well, that is, not if you want to restore your relationship with boyfriend.


----------



## Jellybeans

tacoma said:


> The only thing you can do is hope he is the doormat you took him for when you first got together because if he isn't, you're done.


How is the guy a doormat? He apparently, from what I am surmising, did not know initially about her sleeping with the other dude. At some point he found out, which is a big mystery, the how he found out. 

But why are we throwing shade at the boyfriend and calling HIM a doormat when he apparently didn't know? OP's first post said he has just found out about it. Which means he had no clue about it. It's not his fault.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Jellybeans said:


> Ok I am still curious:
> 
> *HOW* DID SOULMATE BOYFRIEND find out about you sleeping with his nemesis?
> 
> Did you say already or did I miss that post?


I am still waiting to find out as well.

The possibilities are

1. Bad boy told soulmate himself, possibly at an industry event

2. Lonnie and Bad Boy agreed to friend one another on social media, their or maybe just his interaction with her was enough to make Soulmate confident that there was a lot to those cheeky remarks in cyberspace.

3. Mutual friends dropped enough hints around soulmate that the possibility that she was fooling around with him seem real.

This is the on thing that people forget in relationships. People do not need as much information as in a legal court to make their personal decisions. There is no law against dropping someone from dating.....ergo, as the droppee, you will not get your day in court.


----------



## Jellybeans

Or did he find a message on her phone or some other thing where she is still talking to the nemesis? 

Or someone told him?

I hadn't even considered the social media angle!


----------



## Jellybeans

NextTimeAround said:


> This is the on thing that people forget in relationships. People do not need as much information as in a legal court to make their personal decisions. *There is no law against dropping someone from dating*.....ergo, as the droppee, you will not get your day in court.


Truth.


----------



## NextTimeAround

tacoma said:


> The only thing you can do is hope he is the doormat you took him for when you first got together because if he isn't, you're done.


Let's don't say things like that, otherwise, you would have to call me a doormat.

In my case that would mean

1. Never offering to pay for anything.
2. Expecting the guy to pay for my transportation to and from the date.
3. Assuming that every female "friend" he has, he is likely courting if not actually sleeping with.

If you want a kinder, gentler world in which some people do give the benefit of the doubt and keep an open mind, then you will not call everyone who has made a mistake even though they were bereft of adequate information, a chump.


----------



## I Don't Know

I don't think tacoma is calling the BF a doormat. My reading of that is tacoma is saying if the BF stays, he is showing doormat like qualities.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

I recall reading a similar thread on TAM only the genders were reversed. There were quite many posters stating it was not cheating since they were not married or specifically agreed on exclusivity. What's with the double standard.


----------



## NextTimeAround

I Don't Know said:


> I don't think tacoma is calling the BF a doormat. My reading of that is tacoma is saying if the BF stays, he is showing doormat like qualities.


that's a relief!


----------



## DoktorFun

I Don't Know said:


> I don't think tacoma is calling the BF a doormat. *My reading of that is tacoma is saying if the BF stays, he is showing doormat like qualities.*


^Yes, very miserable and weak.

I feel sorry for this guy (if he stays).


----------



## lovelygirl

ScarletBegonias said:


> Why call the other guy a jerk just bc he's a womanizer? He was good enough to get your skirt up within weeks of meeting him and you find out he isn't exclusive to anyone so he's a jerk?


Exactly. He wasn't exclusive and neither was she. So that means she was a jerk too?

Judgmental.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I recall reading a similar thread on TAM only the genders were reversed. There were quite many posters stating it was not cheating since they were not married or specifically agreed on exclusivity. What's with the double standard.


If the bf wasn't aware he was the only one being exclusive then yes,it's cheating.If he was aware they weren't exclusive then no, it's not cheating.


----------



## tulsy

LonnieHere said:


> He was (IS) NOT "option B" like alot of you are saying. He was a really good guy that i had a great connection with and i really saw a future with. That doesn't mean i disrespected him or treated him poorly or whatever.


You chose to sleep with the other guy first, so other guy was plan A...how is your boyfriend not plan B?



LonnieHere said:


> We were together all the time once we got serious and i knew he had the same feelings for me as i had for him. The sex thing, yes, that was wrong. *I did make him wait* but it wasn't just to put on an act like some of you are saying to make him think i was a "good girl." With HIM I was (AM) a good girl and he really helped me get there.


See, that's the thing...YOU'RE *NOT* A GOOD GIRL! It's all fake...you pretended to be "the good girl", and your boyfriend bought it. Now imagine how he feels, finding out how fake you are.



LonnieHere said:


> When we first met i guess i wasn't too good and yeah it was fast with* the jerk *but it's not like it was pre planned. In the past sometimes if i felt like it, i did, if that makes sense. I'm not that woman any more. I'm better and i want my guy to see that. We love each other and i don't want to "let him go" like you guys are saying.


How is the other guy a jerk? You're the one who was sleeping with with him while dating someone else...if anything, you were the jerk. As much as your boyfriend dislikes the guy, he's probably realizing right now that you are the bigger jerk.


----------



## samyeagar

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I recall reading a similar thread on TAM only the genders were reversed. There were quite many posters stating it was not cheating since they were not married or specifically agreed on exclusivity. What's with the double standard.


Link please.


----------



## lisab0105

Lonnie, I have a question. 

When did your fiancé become your actual boyfriend? Was he your BF from the get go? Was there ever a conversation about seeing other people? 

You are allowed to date more than one person, but I don't believe you should be sleeping with more than one person. In that instance, imo, you didn't do anything wrong, unless, you considered him your BF when you were also seeing that other guy. 

So many, many, many times on TAM I have read that your not exclusive with someone until you both agree to it. I think once you consider them your BG/GF than you have an understanding that you are now in a relationship with that person. 

If he was your BF, you cheated. If he wasn't your BF than you didn't cheat and you didn't do anything wrong.


----------



## lisab0105

samyeagar said:


> Link please.


There have been TONS!!!! 

Double standards run rampant here.


----------



## Blondilocks

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I recall reading a similar thread on TAM only the genders were reversed. There were quite many posters stating it was not cheating since they were not married or specifically agreed on exclusivity. *What's with the double standard.*


Exactly!


----------



## xakulax

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I recall reading a similar thread on TAM only the genders were reversed. There were quite many posters stating it was not cheating since they were not married or specifically agreed on exclusivity. What's with the double standard.



If you say so but my opinion is the same regardless of gender I do however respect your right to disagree.


----------



## U.E. McGill

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I recall reading a similar thread on TAM only the genders were reversed. There were quite many posters stating it was not cheating since they were not married or specifically agreed on exclusivity. What's with the double standard.



Before my time. This isn't cheating either. It's still wrong. 

There's the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. This violated the latter.


----------



## DoF

Forget about "the law" or "rules" or whatever you want to label it.

It simply takes a CERTAIN person to do the sort of thing OP did. 

You won't find many men (if any at all) that will like that/agree with it or put up with it.

It's wrong and completely messed up (regardless if the OP is a man or a woman)....that's irrelevant.


----------



## vellocet

LonnieHere said:


> OK so to answer some of your questions.
> 
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy.


So you were multidating on your current bf.

His thoughts that it was cheating is understandable, whether it is considered as such or not. There are some of us out there that if we are giving our consideration to someone else, its a slap in the face to be seeing someone else at the same time.




> And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. The other guy just sort of happened.


Does your bf know this? If so, I can understand his thinking even more so. The fact that you hadn't been intimate with your bf yet because you wanted to do it right tells me that it was in the serious realm and could accurately be defined by him as cheating.





> They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer. I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out. Sucks.


You thought maybe he'd be different? So why did you want to do it right with your bf, and not with the guy you thought would be different?

Either way, your boyfriend's feelings are justified.


----------



## Jellybeans

vellocet said:


> Does your bf know this? If so, I can understand his thinking even more so. The fact that you hadn't been intimate with your bf yet because you wanted to do it right tells me that it was in the serious realm and could accurately be defined by him as cheating.


ooh, good eye. I missed that. Spot on.


----------



## DoF

xakulax said:


> If you say so but my opinion is the same regardless of gender I do however respect your right to disagree.


The issue with her post is that she is taking few or even many "opinions" and assuming it applies to EVERYONE (aka generalization)

And applies a label "double standard" to it all.

Sorry, I can't agree with that.


----------



## vellocet

LonnieHere said:


> He was (IS) NOT "option B" like alot of you are saying. He was a really good guy that i had a great connection with and i really saw a future with. *That doesn't mean i disrespected him or treated him poorly or whatever*.


That's not your call to make. Obviously he feels differently.

I was in the same boat as your bf once. Was seeing someone, found out she dated someone at the same time before any exclusivity talk, so she had to go. Was she cheating on me? Maybe, maybe not. Was she disrespecting me by taking my consideration in her by dating someone else behind my back? Absolutely. 

Her argument was that she wanted to be with me but we hadn't yet became exclusive. I told her she was right. But if she wanted exclusivity with me sooner or later, she went about it the wrong way, and I don't date someone that doesn't give me the same respect in return.





> When we first met i guess i wasn't too good and yeah it was fast with the jerk* but it's not like it was pre planned*.


And this makes a difference how?


----------



## xakulax

DoF said:


> The issue with her post is that she is taking few or even many "opinions" and assuming it applies to EVERYONE (aka generalization)
> 
> And applies a label "double standard" to it all.
> 
> Sorry, I can't agree with that.



Oh I agree completely with you I was just trying to be nice


----------



## sandc

I think OP has left the building.


----------



## vellocet

LonnieHere said:


> Ok maybe counselling would be good. I'll try and bring that up.
> 
> You know, it's pretty cruel to call him a doormat like Tahoma did. He's not. He's just not.


I'd say you are correct here. A doormat would be a guy that lets someone disrespect him and stays with her while allowing her behavior to go unchecked.

He found out, he got pissed. A doormat would be a guy that finds out and feels helpless, doing the hysterical bonding thing thinking he needs to bend over backwards to please a woman that disrespected him.

Your bf isn't doing that. Hence, not a doormat.


----------



## Caribbean Man

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I recall reading a similar thread on TAM only the genders were reversed. There were quite many posters stating it was not cheating since they were not married or specifically agreed on exclusivity. What's with the double standard.



Well if you've been on TAM long enough , you'll also know there is a little cliche that goes like this ;

" _pics or it didn't happen._."

Simply means, provide tangible evidence , or it never happened.

Just kinda amusing how a couple ladies on this thread screaming 
" _double standard_ " and on that other thread about Open Marriage and the sh!t testing wife , a couple of men are screaming
" _double standard_..."

Can't please them all.


----------



## vellocet

sandc said:


> I think OP has left the building.


Probably dealing with the loss of bf and he has hopefully, and wisely, moved on.

But then again, her last post was just last night.


----------



## Wolf1974

vellocet said:


> That's not your call to make. Obviously he feels differently.
> 
> I was in the same boat as your bf once. Was seeing someone, found out she dated someone at the same time before any exclusivity talk, so she had to go. Was she cheating on me? Maybe, maybe not. Was she disrespecting me by taking my consideration in her by dating someone else behind my back? Absolutely.
> 
> Her argument was that she wanted to be with me but we hadn't yet became exclusive. I told her she was right. But if she wanted exclusivity with me sooner or later, she went about it the wrong way, and I don't date someone that doesn't give me the same respect in return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this makes a difference how?


Yep and have done the same thing. It has gotten to the point where if I get to the second date with someone I know if I want to get to know them better. I just flat out ask are you seeing anyone else. If answer is yes but I would rather see where things go with you then fine but the other person has to go....I'm not interested in a competition. If answer is yes and I am going to keep seeing them then that will be our last date.

If they lie or hide it and I find out about it later, funny how these things always come out in the end, then it's an immediate relationship breaker.


----------



## Jellybeans

Wolf1974 said:


> It has gotten to the point where if I get to the second date with someone I know if I want to get to know them better. I just flat out ask are you seeing anyone else.


That's how I do it, too. I want to know: are you involved with others. 

Side question: Also, do you usually know by second date if you want to keep going w/ them? Or does it take a little more?


----------



## xakulax

sandc said:


> I think OP has left the building.


:iagree:


We have provided a mirror of her behavior and I don't think she likes what she saw OP good luck in your next relationship and try an learn from this one.


----------



## vellocet

ScarletBegonias said:


> If the bf wasn't aware he was the only one being exclusive then yes,it's cheating.If he was aware they weren't exclusive then no, it's not cheating.


I'd say that is accurate.

However, even if it isn't considered cheating, it still can be considered disrespect.


----------



## NextTimeAround

vellocet said:


> That's not your call to make. Obviously he feels differently.
> 
> I was in the same boat as your bf once. Was seeing someone, found out she dated someone at the same time before any exclusivity talk, so she had to go. Was she cheating on me? Maybe, maybe not. Was she disrespecting me by taking my consideration in her by dating someone else behind my back? Absolutely.
> 
> Her argument was that she wanted to be with me but we hadn't yet became exclusive. I told her she was right. *But if she wanted exclusivity with me sooner or later, she went about it the wrong way, and I don't date someone that doesn't give me the same respect in return.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this makes a difference how?


Yeah, I agree. Maybe I had not dated mush after my divorce so I was always keeping an open mind about things.... (to my detriment)...

but I had dated my (now) fiance for about 2 months when I had to visit my parants for 3 weeks.....

I just thought that someone who cared about me would make the effort to see me the day that I arrived ..... before noon....... on Sunday...... when he was in town himself........

Instead, he chose to be with someone else that day...... after all is said and done, I realised that even if you are not "officially" exclusive, then you would at least act like it ..... in order to get there....... that particular Sunday was not any special day for his just a friend ex..... 

and I realise now as well that there are a lot of rules to dating that people follow (even though people like to lambast "The Rules" book) 

Forget about not accepting a date for Saturday after Wednesday, a lot of women won't respond if a guy takes longer than 3 days to call her after getting her number. 

That guys better get that kiss in when she gives you that look, and certainly I learned, if a guy is avoiding sex with you, he most likely has someone else on his mind........ even if he is taking up my time.........


----------



## ScarletBegonias

vellocet said:


> I'd say that is accurate.
> 
> However, even if it isn't considered cheating, it still can be considered disrespect.


I agree.


----------



## vellocet

And if someone doesn't see anything wrong with multi-dating, then make sure those you are dating agree with that.


----------



## lifeistooshort

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I recall reading a similar thread on TAM only the genders were reversed. There were quite many posters stating it was not cheating since they were not married or specifically agreed on exclusivity. What's with the double standard.



Yes, that's the thread about her husband bringing another relationship into their marriage. He was sleeping with someone else along with her, but she's being told that since they weren't married and he chose her it's no big deal. He wanted HER to be exclusive while he wasn't and now refuses to discuss it. And he's been faithful for, wait for it, a whole 6 months! Huge double standard, but such is life here on TAM. I think that kind of lying, scummy behavior is disgusting regardless of gender.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet

NextTimeAround said:


> That guys better get that kiss in when she gives you that look, and certainly I learned,* if a guy is avoiding sex with you, he most likely has someone else on his mind*........ even if he is taking up my time.........


Well, not necessarily. 

Would I like to have sex early in the dating process? Sure.

Will I? No. There are some of us guys out there that want to show someone that we respect them and that it can be worth the wait.

Sadly, its that kind of guy that gets crapped on, as we clearly see from this thread. And then women like OP wonder why they can't find a good man.


----------



## DoF

I still can't help but to laugh at OP for calling this guy her "soul mate"

:rofl:


----------



## Wolf1974

Jellybeans said:


> That's how I do it, too. I want to know: are you involved with others.
> 
> Side question: Also, do you usually know by second date if you want to keep going w/ them? Or does it take a little more?


Well my dating progression works like this. It's been simplified over the years but works very well.

So long as I find a woman attractive I will have a first date, no more than drinks or coffee so it can be done in 15 minutes if need be or go an hour if wanted.

If I feel some connection or spark and want to get to know them better I will ask for second date....I'm picky so happens rarely. Second date is much more involved. Hike and dinner, sporting event, or whatever but it's going to be hours involved. By the end of this date I will have a real good idea if I want to know more so I just have a very frank discussion something to the effect of :
Have really enjoyed spending time with you, I think I would like to get to know you better.....what do you think? Her response: not feeling it, or maybe she will say I feel same way but never hear from her again, or yes I would like to get to know you better as well. Then I ask are you seeing anyone else currently : no ..... Then no problem. Yes...... How many and how serious and are you going to give that up or not? 

And on it goes.

I have nothing against dating for the sake of just dating. But when looking for more these frank and honest conversations can save a lot to time. Were I the OP's boyfriend I would now find the entire relationship a monumental Waste of time. All could have been avoided early on


----------



## lifeistooshort

DoF said:


> I still can't help but to laugh at OP for calling this guy her "soul mate"
> 
> :rofl:


I'm with you there brother. In one of my comments I said that every time I hear "soul mate" thrown around all I can think of is barf.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF

It seems like OP can't even be honest with herself?

I mean look, there is nothing wrong with banging away strange guys (if that's what one likes/enjoys). 

I say, whatever floats that boat.

Just don't try to paint a picture of Cinderella.......

One has to be honest with themselves LONG LONG LONG before they can be honest with others.


----------



## samyeagar

My STBW and I never had an exclusivity discussion per se. Nor did we even ask the question if we were seeing anyone else. We were both on match.com, and both continued on there for a while after we started talking, but before our first date.

I guess we were pretty lucky with each other because neither of us dated anyone else after our first conversation. We were both intrigued by the other and any desire to look elsewhere at that point had faded. I guess for me, if I am into someone, the desire to look elsewhere disappears, and I would expect the same to happen for her. If it didn't, I would lose interest really quickly.


----------



## Blondilocks

It seems people are assuming that op's bf went without sex for the two months it took for her to come around. Doubtful, imo. 

Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?


----------



## vellocet

Blondilocks said:


> Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?


Yes, because then he'd have no right to complain about what she did.


----------



## samyeagar

Blondilocks said:


> It seems people are assuming that op's bf went without sex for the two months it took for her to come around. Doubtful, imo.
> 
> *Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere*?


Sure it would. I'd call him out on his double standard.


----------



## samyeagar

vellocet said:


> Yes, because then he'd have no right to complain about what she did.


but...but...that wouldn't be setting up a double standard...and that's what we men do here dontcha' know...


----------



## vellocet

Blondilocks said:


> I get that some of the guys here think she is a reprehensible excuse for a human being. But, why? Are you projecting your own insecurities/hurts onto her actions?



Is that what we are doing? Well damn.

Or is it that some of us think just like her bf does? Do I think she is reprehensible? Maybe in a small way, but not completely.

Do I think she cheated? Not really.

Do I think she disrespected her bf by not giving him the same considerations as he gave her? Yes.

Perhaps you think she shouldn't hear from guys that are more than likely of the same mindset as her bf?




> Is it because most guys expect a blowjob by the end of the first date?


I don't expect it at all. And frankly would be a little put off by it. It would make me wonder about her.


----------



## lifeistooshort

samyeagar said:


> but...but...that wouldn't be setting up a double standard...and that's what we men do here dontcha' know...


Not all of you, just a chunk of you 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

Blondilocks said:


> Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?


Absolutely. He'd be a hypocrite for doing the same exact thing and getting upset about it. Especially if she thought he wasn't seeing/sleeping with someone else.

What's good for the goose................


----------



## DoF

lifeistooshort said:


> Not all of you, just a chunk of you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's better.

I don't like to be lumped up with "your average male". That's rather offensive to me!

:scratchhead:


----------



## xakulax

Blondilocks said:


> Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?



Absolutely it would make a difference


----------



## samyeagar

Blondilocks said:


> It seems people are assuming that op's bf went without sex for the two months it took for her to come around. Doubtful, imo.
> 
> Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?


She did say that she made him wait two months, and yes, many guys will wait as you have seen here.

As to the second part about it making a difference, what kind of responses were you expecting?


----------



## NextTimeAround

Blondilocks said:


> "But that raises the question of why she gave it away for free to the other guy but waited and waited and waited for the first guy."
> 
> Gave it away for free? Please. The guy turned her on. That's it. Finito. Should she have charged him? Do you think the food and wine earned the now bf first crack?
> 
> Obviously, her now current guy wasn't turning her on at the time. In other words, she wasn't that into him at THAT time.
> 
> *I get that some of the guys here think she is a reprehensible excuse for a human being. But, why? Are you projecting your own insecurities/hurts onto her actions? Is it because most guys expect a blowjob by the end of the first date?*


Many women come on to a message board like this wondering why things didn't go well, and on this occassion, the OP is getting very a fly on the wall opinion.

I don't see the point of using shaming language against people who are giving an honest opinion.

Of course, the OP, like many people before her, can simply, and if he's going to act like that, then I am better off without him.

Well, so be it, then.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Blondilocks said:


> It seems people are assuming that op's bf went without sex for the two months it took for her to come around. Doubtful, imo.
> 
> Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?



Now that would be a whole other kettle of fish. If he was getting it elsewhere during that time then there's no foul. IMO.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Blondilocks said:


> It seems people are assuming that op's bf went without sex for the two months it took for her to come around. Doubtful, imo.
> 
> Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?


My fiance uses the excuse that he started seeing his ex again because he was not sure as to whether I was seeing anyone else. He never asked either.


----------



## vellocet

Blondilocks said:


> If her guy was so special right off the bat, she wouldn't have been knocking knees with someone else. It sounds like she came to appreciate her guy over time (he grew on her).


That doesn't coincide with her saying that she wanted to do it right with the bf while she screwed the other guy.




> Besides, maybe she didn't know the two guys were arch enemies.


That's just icing on the cake for her bf I would guess. Otherwise its irrelevant to her bf feeling disrespected in general.




> There is nothing wrong with dating two people at the same time as long as no one thinks they're in an exclusive relationship.


No, there is nothing wrong with dating two people at the same time if the other people involved have the same mindset.

Like I told a girl long ago who did want a relationship with me that she didn't go about it the right way by dating someone else behind my back. I wasn't furiously angry with her, didn't consider it cheating, but it was disrespect.

Unless all parties are in agreement that multi-dating is ok, how do you respect one person, while shagging another? Really? How does that work?




> Just because a girl is wined and dined does not give a guy exclusive rights to her.
> 
> It sounds like her guy is just as upset about the 'who' as the fact that he didn't get his first.


Then you clearly didn't read what she posted. He considered it cheating because he gave her the consideration of working towards a relationship. He sees it that way, she doesn't. 

Neither one of them is wrong in that regard. But he feels disrespected to say the least, and he is justified in feeling that way.



> Tell him that you saved the best for last.


Oh ya, that'll work


----------



## Blondilocks

"Do I think she disrespected her bf by not giving him the same considerations as he gave her? Yes.

Perhaps you think she shouldn't hear from guys that are more than likely of the same mindset as her bf?"

With all due respect, no one knows (possibly even the op) what considerations her bf gave her. She asked for opinions and should expect opinions from all viewpoints. I have no dog in this fight and don't care who responds to her.


----------



## lifeistooshort

DoF said:


> That's better.
> 
> I don't like to be lumped up with "your average male". That's rather offensive to me!
> 
> :scratchhead:


Totally understood. I don't care to be lumped in with all us women that only want a beta to support us while we cheat with alphas, and don't dump our poor beta until we find someone else. I've even been accused of belonging to the sisterhood when I voice an opinion some guy doesn't like. Wth is the sisterhood anyway?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF

lifeistooshort said:


> Totally understood. I don't care to be lumped in with all us women that only want a beta to support us while we cheat with alphas, and don't dump our poor beta until we find someone else. I've even been accused of belonging to the sisterhood when I voice an opinion some guy doesn't like. Wth is the sisterhood anyway?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's like country borders......color........nationality........religion etc

Ways for humans to control others and most importantly, SEPARATE people (without them even knowing).


----------



## lisab0105

So is she bad because she multi-dated in the first month they were seeing each other, before they were serious or is she bad because she didn't have the nerve to drop her panties for both of them at the same time? 

I remember one thread very specifically where a wife came on here, torn up because she had just found out her husband slept with another women for about a month while they were in a relationship but before they were married. When she found out, they had already been married for about 5/6 years. 

The crap she got was:
"Well, maybe he didn't think you were exclusive. Did you make it clear you wanted to be exclusive?"
"You weren't married, get over it."
"He married you, he chose you, he's been a model husband since you married him. Be happy." 

Hell, even *I* was told quite a few times to get over it when my guy cheated on me 6 months into our exclusive relationship, because we weren't even engaged yet.


----------



## vellocet

Blondilocks said:


> "Do I think she disrespected her bf by not giving him the same considerations as he gave her? Yes.
> 
> Perhaps you think she shouldn't hear from guys that are more than likely of the same mindset as her bf?"
> 
> With all due respect, no one knows (possibly even the op) what considerations her bf gave her.


If he thinks she cheated, then the consideration implied and simple. That he was treating their relationship as something that was going somewhere.




> She asked for opinions and should expect opinions from all viewpoints. I have no dog in this fight and don't care who responds to her.


Your posts and the way you post it says otherwise.


----------



## Blondilocks

"I don't see the point of using shaming language against people who are giving an honest opinion"

? What did you consider shaming - insecurities, hurts? There was no intent to shame anyone. Truly don't understand why she was expected to maintain celibacy just because she went on a few dates with one guy who hadn't declared his intention to be exclusive. Women aren't mind-readers any more than men are. 

Wolf's way of handling the dating scene is commendable and puts any questions of exclusivity to rest. More people need to adopt his method and avoid these problems.


----------



## samyeagar

lisab0105 said:


> So is she bad because she multi-dated in the first month they were seeing each other, before they were serious or is she bad because she didn't have the nerve to drop her panties for both of them at the same time?
> 
> I remember one thread very specifically where a wife came on here, torn up because she had just found out her husband slept with another women for about a month while they were in a relationship but before they were married. When she found out, they had already been married for about 5/6 years.
> 
> The crap she got was:
> "Well, maybe he didn't think you were exclusive. Did you make it clear you wanted to be exclusive?"
> "You weren't married, get over it."
> "He married you, he chose you, he's been a model husband since you married him. Be happy."
> 
> Hell, even *I* was told quite a few times to get over it when my guy cheated on me 6 months into our exclusive relationship, because we weren't even engaged yet.


And if you were told that, I think it was a crap thing to say. I have always hated the 'but he/she chose you to marry' reason to dismiss someone else's feelings too.

As a couple moves towards marriage, and the relationship becomes 'exclusive' either explicitly or implicitly, what the hell do people think it really means? Being 'exclusive' in almost every case, the full term should be 'romantically and sexually exclusive'


----------



## Jellybeans

lisab0105 said:


> So is she bad because she multi-dated in the first month they were seeing each other, before they were serious or is she bad because she didn't have the nerve to drop her panties for both of them at the same time?


The issue is she says he JUST found out that she slept with his nemesis while they were involved. 

JUST is the main word here. It means it's new information to him. So, he clearly did not KNOW she was sleeping wit the other guy. One can take from that that he more than likely thought he was the only guy she was seeing at the time. And she says they've been together more than a year now and he's just getting word (some how, some way, of which is still a mystery) that she slept with someone else.

I am very curious to find out how he found out! 

I wonder if she is stil in touch with the guy and that is how he found out. 

For me, if I was dating a guy for over a year and just found out that during a time I thought it was just me, that he wa sleeping with someone else, and someone who I hated (eek!), I would feel really awful and like I was duped for over a year.

It does not appear she told him she was sleeping with the other guy. 

If she did, then he is holding the past against her. But she said it herself that he JUST found out about it, over a year later in.


----------



## Blondilocks

vellocet said:


> If he thinks she cheated, then the consideration implied and simple. That he was treating their relationship as something that was going somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your posts and the way you post it says otherwise.


It's clear that you're the one with the agenda, here. You can probably buy her a scarlet A on Amazon if that will make you happy.


----------



## samyeagar

Blondilocks said:


> It seems people are assuming that op's bf went without sex for the two months it took for her to come around. Doubtful, imo.
> 
> *Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?*


What kind of responses were you thinking you would get to this question?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

lisab0105 said:


> So is she bad because she multi-dated in the first month they were seeing each other, before they were serious or is she bad because she didn't have the nerve to drop her panties for both of them at the same time?


Mostly because she told her now BF that sex was a special thing in a relationship that she want to save to do things right, when it fact it was all about how hot a guy was (because she knew what the hot dude was like and still went ahead with it). Nothing wrong with either approach, but when it apply it inconsistently between two guys at the same time, you can't expect the BF not to be upset.

In my book, she did not cheat. But she was also not honest with him. They are only dating, so if he wants to leave, no issues. Same for you when your BF cheated.


----------



## jaharthur

LonnieHere said:


> OK so to answer some of your questions.
> 
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. The other guy just sort of happened.


Seems like a lot of people are ignoring this rather important statement. She had been putting sex off with the bf because she "wanted to do it right." But apparently she felt that "wanting to do it right" allows f*cking some bad boy who is hot. Seems to me it's a natural reaction for the bf to think that if that's what she thinks is "doing it right," she ain't for him.

And yes, if the genders were reversed, I'd reach the same opinion. Men have dissed women in this way for far too long. I confess that I'm always a bit disappointed that while the sexual revolution freed women in many ways, in many cases that freedom has resulted in women becoming just like men in some of the worst possible ways. I had hoped that the result would be somewhere in the middle. Seems like revolutions never go the way you want them to go.


----------



## DoF

jaharthur said:


> Seems like a lot of people are ignoring this rather important statement. She had been putting sex off with the bf because she "wanted to do it right." But apparently she felt that "wanting to do it right" allows f*cking some bad boy who is hot. Seems to me it's a natural reaction for the bf to think that if that's what she thinks is "doing it right," she ain't for him.


I'm pretty sure EVERYONE actually did the opposite and focused on that statement mostly.


----------



## vellocet

lisab0105 said:


> So is she bad because she multi-dated in the first month they were seeing each other, before they were serious or is she bad because she didn't have the nerve to drop her panties for both of them at the same time?



Multidating in itself isn't bad if all parties are on the same page with it.

But it doesn't make sense to say that while she had sex with the other guy, she was making it special with her bf. Since she equated not having sex with bf while having sex with the other guy, THAT right there indicates she considered her bf someone she wants a relationship with. I can't see myself having someone I want to get in good with, but then screw someone else on the side.




> I remember one thread very specifically where a wife came on here, torn up because she had just found out her husband slept with another women for about a month while they were in a relationship but before they were married. When she found out, they had already been married for about 5/6 years.
> 
> The crap she got was:
> "Well, maybe he didn't think you were exclusive. Did you make it clear you wanted to be exclusive?"
> "You weren't married, get over it."
> "He married you, he chose you, he's been a model husband since you married him. Be happy."


And you are right, if that's what she got, it was crap. I sure wouldn't have said those things to her.

Are we trying to make this into a man vs. woman thing?




> Hell, even *I* was told quite a few times to get over it when my guy cheated on me 6 months into our exclusive relationship, because we weren't even engaged yet.


If someone told you to get over being cheated on, then that person can go blow. NOBODY has to just "get over it".


----------



## Jellybeans

The ommision is the biggest issue here.


----------



## DoF

vellocet said:


> If someone told you to get over being cheated on, then that person can go blow. NOBODY has to just "get over it".


I can't believe there is a person on this planet that would take that statement seriously/actually consider it.

My mind = blown


----------



## vellocet

Blondilocks said:


> It's clear that you're the one with the agenda, here.


No, that would be you. Its obvious in the tone of your posts.

I simply have experience in this exact type of scenario. I was in the same position as her bf. However I wasn't quite as upset as her bf is. I simply ended the relationship.


----------



## vellocet

Jellybeans said:


> The ommision is the biggest issue here.


I guess one question I'd have for OP is, Why did she not tell both guys what the deal was?

And if she wouldn't tell her bf that she was seeing someone else while seeing him, what would the reason be?


----------



## Jellybeans

vellocet said:


> I simply have experience in this exact type of scenario. I was in the same position as her bf. However I wasn't quite as upset as her bf is. * I simply ended the relationship.*


Love this. 

This is something I'd do. No drama, just Goodbye. People get really mad the calmer you are for some reason. :rofl:


----------



## vellocet

Jellybeans said:


> Love this.
> 
> This is something I'd do. No drama, just Goodbye. People get really mad the calmer you are for some reason. :rofl:


Exactly

When it happened, and I found out, I told her that perhaps we need to part ways. She basically told me that I can't be mad because we didn't have an exclusivity talk.

I told her I wasn't mad and that she was correct. But then told her that if she wanted exclusivity with me later, that wasn't the way to go about it and that if it was her intention to see other people, then I should have been made aware.

So told her I wasn't mad, but that I simply didn't see the need to continue in the relationship. And like you said, that pissed her off, which further validated my course of action.


----------



## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> Love this.
> 
> This is something I'd do. No drama, just Goodbye. People get really mad the calmer you are for some reason. :rofl:


They get even worse if you just completely ignore them!!!


----------



## Jellybeans

vellocet said:


> She basically told me that I can't be mad because we didn't have an exclusivity talk.
> 
> So told her I wasn't mad, but that I simply didn't see the need to continue in the relationship. And like you said, that pissed her off, which further validated my course of action.


:rofl: This is so something I'd do. And then I'd disappear never to be seen again. I'm a magician that way.



DoF said:


> They get even worse if you just completely ignore them!!!


:iagree:


----------



## xakulax

OK I can sens this thread is starting to get off mission a little bite so let me just say this and i'm done here *none of this and I mean none of this would have happen if the OP had simply told her BF at the time she was seeing someone ells that's it its that simple *give him the chose to stay or go it has nothing to do with gender it has do with respect, empathy, transparency and most importantly honesty all which the OP shone a lack of. 


I don't understand why some of you are making this a gender issue when its an issue of honesty and respect something we all deserve male or female.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

vellocet said:


> No, that would be you. Its obvious in the tone of your posts.
> 
> I simply have experience in this exact type of scenario. I was in the same position as her bf. However I wasn't quite as upset as her bf is. I simply ended the relationship.


Maybe the BF fell for this woman a lot harder than you did in your scenario. Or alternatively, the fact that she slept with his "arch rival" is a huge blow to him while in your case it was just another guy your then GF was seeing?


----------



## Wolf1974

lisab0105 said:


> *So is she bad because she multi-dated in the first month they were seeing each other, before they were serious *or is she bad because she didn't have the nerve to drop her panties for both of them at the same time?
> 
> I remember one thread very specifically where a wife came on here, torn up because she had just found out her husband slept with another women for about a month while they were in a relationship but before they were married. When she found out, they had already been married for about 5/6 years.
> 
> The crap she got was:
> "Well, maybe he didn't think you were exclusive. Did you make it clear you wanted to be exclusive?"
> "You weren't married, get over it."
> "He married you, he chose you, he's been a model husband since you married him. Be happy."
> 
> Hell, even *I* was told quite a few times to get over it when my guy cheated on me 6 months into our exclusive relationship, because we weren't even engaged yet.


Yep and the fact that she called him her soul mate which indicates she thought it was serious.....well serious enough to date and screw another guy anyway.

I know I would have loved to been bankrolling and courting my main squeeze while she was playing the horizontal hokey pokey with another guy.....what every guy dreams of


----------



## MattMatt

The problem as I see it is that Lonnie wanted to be the virginal bride for her soulmate and a hot little sexually active minx for her bad boy boy friend. *At the same time*.

And that's just not possible.


----------



## jaharthur

MattMatt said:


> The problem as I see it is that Lonnie wanted to be the virginal bride for her soulmate and a hot little sexually active minx for her bad boy boy friend. *At the same time*.
> 
> And that's just not possible.


There you go again with that double standard and scarlet letter.


----------



## vellocet

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Maybe the BF fell for this woman a lot harder than you did in your scenario. Or alternatively, the fact that she slept with his "arch rival" is a huge blow to him while in your case it was just another guy your then GF was seeing?


Could be. And while I didn't see what the girl in my situation did was cheating, the BF here does. And he is justified in thinking that since obviously she was working towards a relationship with him because she was building something special with him while at the same time spreadin' 'em for another guy.


----------



## MattMatt

Did Lothario know about Soulmate at the time? Might this be why he targeted Lonnie?:scratchhead:


----------



## happi_g_more2

boy lonnie stirred up the hornets nest. she hasnt posted in 12 pages.


----------



## samyeagar

My more general opinion on this is that I don't think there was anything inherently wrong with her behavior. She was certainly free to do what she wanted, and should not be chastised for it. She made her own choices that were indeed hers to make, and she certainly has every right to those choices.

The thing is, she has no right to expect someone else to agree with her choices. They are free to react to them how they see fit. For every choice made, there are consequences, some known, others unforeseen, some intended, others unintended.

I think one of the biggest lies told to people, now a days, and in particular women, is that you can have it all, and everyone else should be ok with it. Being ok with it does NOT mean agreeing with it, or going along with it. It simply means not judging it. Or to phrase it in an older way...freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.


----------



## samyeagar

happi_g_more2 said:


> boy lonnie stirred up the hornets nest. she hasnt posted in 12 pages.


which has been less than 24 hours...


----------



## Wolf1974

happi_g_more2 said:


> boy lonnie stirred up the hornets nest. she hasnt posted in 12 pages.


Maybe she thought that people would band to her side and say well they were only dating so this isn't an issue and your boyfriend....hopefully x now, should get over it. The particular thread on TAM has helped restore some faith in humanity


----------



## jaharthur

Seems OP left the building. Were she still here, I'd ask her to answer these questions:

1. Was the fling with the bad boy AFTER she had decided that bf was at least potentially a soul mate? If so, how does she justify her actions?

2. At the time of the fling with the bad boy, was the bf relationship one that she believed had long term promise and did she think bf felt that way too? Whether or not either of them explicitly said so.

3. The "mistake" with the bad boy wasn't just one time, it was "a few" times, which I assume means at least 3 times. Why the repeated "mistake"?

4. Was it the "bad boy" who ended the fling, even though you were willing to continue, making it look even more like bf was plan B?

5. You told bf that f*cking the bad boy didn't mean anything, it was just physical. How does bf know that you won't carry that same attitude forward and in the future f*ck some other bad boy. In your words, "In the past sometimes if i felt like it, i did." How can bf know that's changed?

These are the questions I'd ask if I were the bf. I doubt there are answers that would satisfy him.


----------



## I Don't Know

I'm not sure which would be worse... that it didn't mean anything or if it had meant something.

If it didn't mean anything why did you do it? Why risk a relationship that you considered worth doing "right" for something that didn't mean anything? I would say if you were willing to lose me over something that meant nothing then I must mean less than nothing. And don't say it was to early to know what you were risking because you've already used the "worth doing it right" excuse. Contradictions.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> I'm not sure which would be worse... that it didn't mean anything or if it had meant something.
> 
> If it didn't mean anything why did you do it? Why risk a relationship that you considered worth doing "right" for something that didn't mean anything? I would say if you were willing to lose me over something that meant nothing then I must mean less than nothing. And don't say it was to early to know what you were risking because you've already used the "worth doing it right" excuse. Contradictions.


I imagine she is telling the truth...it didn't mean anything to her. The more cynical part of me thinks that she believed that sex meant something to her BF and so in her twisted way of thinking, she thought making him hold out was the right thing to do for him. What she didn't consider was that while in her mind, she was able to separate all that out from her BF, her BF was under no obligation to do the same. Again, people are being told practically from birth that they can do what ever they want, but no one tells them that no one else has any obligation to accept it.


----------



## lisab0105

Wolf1974 said:


> Yep and the fact that she called him her soul mate which indicates she thought it was serious.....well serious enough to date and screw another guy anyway.
> 
> I know I would have loved to been bankrolling and courting my main squeeze while she was playing the horizontal hokey pokey with another guy.....what every guy dreams of


She called him her soul mate now...she never indicated that she felt that way about him _then_.


----------



## DoF

lisab0105 said:


> She called him her soul mate now...she never indicated that she felt that way about him _then_.


He became her "soulmate" after she realized the other guy "hit and split"

You know......chances are it's the vary thing that her "soulmate" already knew about him and reason why he hated him all together.

Even if this guy wasn't his enemy this would be completely screwed up, enemy part makes it hurt SO much more.

I feel so bad for that guy, that would really suck.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> I imagine she is telling the truth...it didn't mean anything to her. The more cynical part of me thinks that she believed that sex meant something to her BF and so in her twisted way of thinking, she thought making him hold out was the right thing to do for him. What she didn't consider was that while in her mind, she was able to separate all that out from her BF, her BF was under no obligation to do the same. Again, people are being told practically from birth that they can do what ever they want, but no one tells them that no one else has any obligation to accept it.


Yeah, it probably didn't mean anything. God knows I've had sex that didn't mean anything, but I wouldn't risk a good thing for it. I guess that's because I would view it as a deal breaker and would assume anyone else would too. So I guess maybe she would be cool with him behaving that way and assumed he would too.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMatt View Post
The problem as I see it is that Lonnie wanted to be the virginal bride for her soulmate and a hot little sexually active minx for her bad boy boy friend. At the same time.

And that's just not possible.



jaharthur said:


> There you go again with that double standard and scarlet letter.


I don't see what Matt posted as a double standard. He's merely applying the differences between men and women.

We women would not get so fussed about a guy we're dating having an FB in the beginning that we later find out about because in our minds a woman who "puts out" without the proper care and concern from a guy is considered desperate. 

Better still, he was getting his needs met elsewhere while treating us like the virginal bride.

What most women will get upset about is learning that while they are playing the good sport, going dutch with the guy on dates and providing their own transportation -- at the same time the guy is doing future talk, expecting her not to go out with other men ............ to learn that during that same time frame he is wining, dining, providing carriages at the end of the date to some other woman who is not making nearly the same sacrifice for a relationship with him.

These two scenarios illustrate the differences between men and women when it comes to dating.


----------



## jaharthur

lisab0105 said:


> She called him her soul mate now...she never indicated that she felt that way about him _then_.


Hairsplitting. She wrote:

"He asked why i made him wait and all i could say was that i thought we were special together and wanted to start our relationship on a solid basis."

That's from the very start.

She wrote:

"I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right."

That's from the start. She made bf wait because she saw him as special and wanted to do it right, and meanwhile she was f*cking the bad boy.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Yeah, it probably didn't mean anything. *God knows I've had sex that didn't mean anything,* but I wouldn't risk a good thing for it. I guess that's because I would view it as a deal breaker and would assume anyone else would too. So I guess maybe she would be cool with him behaving that way and assumed he would too.


See, and that is something I have never done. I have never done anything sexually that could be called into question in this way, and this thread is part of the very reason why I haven't. Unintended and unforeseen consequences...


----------



## Wolf1974

lisab0105 said:


> She called him her soul mate now...she never indicated that she felt that way about him _then_.



Really so when you feel so strongly about someone that you throw out the term "soulmate" ,which I hate by the way, you don't know early on that you have a connection with the person?

Every person whom I have had a relationship with past a year I knew by date 2 or 3 I wanted to be with them. Not months down the road.


----------



## samyeagar

Wolf1974 said:


> Really so when you feel so strongly about someone that you throw out the term "soulmate" ,which I hate by the way, you don't know early on that you have a connection with the person?
> 
> Every person whom I have had a relationship with past a year I knew by date 2 or 3 I wanted to be with them. Not months down the road.


But this is one of those things that plagues "good guys". There often isn't that instant physical chemistry, and it take a while to learn that he is a good guy.


----------



## lisab0105

jaharthur said:


> Hairsplitting. She wrote:
> 
> "He asked why i made him wait and all i could say was that i thought we were special together and wanted to start our relationship on a solid basis."
> 
> That's from the very start.
> 
> She wrote:
> 
> "I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right."
> 
> That's from the start. She made bf wait because she saw him as special and wanted to do it right, and meanwhile she was f*cking the bad boy.


Yes and still...she never said she thought he was her soul mate then, just that she thought he was special.

And she is free to pick and choose who she sleeps with. If she wasn't ready to sleep with him then, that was her right. Regardless of who else she was sleeping with. She isn't obligated to put for anyone.


----------



## sandc

And the BF isn't obligated to adopt her morals. She can sleep with whomever she chooses. BF can break up whenever he chooses. For whatever reason suits him.


----------



## lisab0105

Wolf1974 said:


> Really so when you feel so strongly about someone that you throw out the term "soulmate" ,which I hate by the way, you don't know early on that you have a connection with the person?
> 
> Every person whom I have had a relationship with past a year I knew by date 2 or 3 I wanted to be with them. Not months down the road.


Sure you feel a connection. But some of you are using the soul mate as ammo against her...and you really shouldn't. She never said "I felt he was my soul mate when we met" or "when we were first dating."

She felt they could have something special...but she only used the word soul mate to describe their current relationship and her current feelings for him now.


----------



## samyeagar

lisab0105 said:


> Yes and still...she never said she thought he was her soul mate then, just that she thought he was special.
> 
> *And she is free to pick and choose who she sleeps with. If she wasn't ready to sleep with him then, that was her right. Regardless of who else she was sleeping with. She isn't obligated to put for anyone*.


Agree absolutely 100%, and he isn't obligated to accept it either. Nor is he wrong for not accepting it. All choices have consequences. She made the choice she wanted, and losing her now boyfriend is one of the consequences.


----------



## jaharthur

lisab0105 said:


> Sure you feel a connection. But some of you are using the soul mate as ammo against her...and you really shouldn't. She never said "I felt he was my soul mate when we met" or "when we were first dating."
> 
> She felt they could have something special...but she only used the word soul mate to describe their current relationship and her current feelings for him now.


More hairsplitting based on semantics. It's entirely predictable that her "special" bf would take her conduct as cheating, or at the very least an indication that she's not worthy of trust in a relationship, and move on.


----------



## jaharthur

lisab0105 said:


> Yes and still...she never said she thought he was her soul mate then, just that she thought he was special.
> 
> And she is free to pick and choose who she sleeps with. If she wasn't ready to sleep with him then, that was her right. Regardless of who else she was sleeping with. She isn't obligated to put for anyone.


True, she can sleep with anybody she wants. Nothing illegal about it. If she's unable to see the obvious consequences, that's on her.

She, as is true with everyone, male female or whatever, IS obligated to treat a "special" person--any person--with respect. She didn't.


----------



## manticore

lisab0105 said:


> And she is free to pick and choose who she sleeps with. If she wasn't ready to sleep with him then, that was her right. Regardless of who else she was sleeping with. She isn't obligated to put for anyone.


if you are going to begin to throw words as "free", "right", "obligated", the same goes for him.

he is not obligated to continue a relationship with someone who slept with other guys during a period he thought existed exclusivity,

he is free to put that as his rule and have the right to end the relationship and never look back.

common, this is not a discussion about women rights, this is about what is obviously wrong and right, if she did not think it was bad at the time why she never let her current BF know about the other guy she was having as FWB, while keeping him on the side to have a solid relationship? after all that was not wrong according to you, why keep quiet about it?.


----------



## lisab0105

Guy and girl meet on website. They go out on dates and have sex for about a month 1/2. No talk of exclusivity, but the conversation of seeing other people does not come up. 

One morning she learns from seeing an empty box of condoms in the trash can that he is having sex with someone else. She is hurt as she didn't realize that he was seeing and much less having sex with anyone else. When questioned he says "We never agreed to be exclusive." She liked him and assumed that he really liked her, definitely wouldn't be sleeping with any one else.

So, does that mean he was in the wrong? He cheated even though there was no talk about exclusivity in the short time frame? Or is it okay because no one was being denied sex?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I think unless Lonnie comes back to update her thread, the conversation has come full circle based on what's known already.


----------



## JCD

Blondilocks said:


> It seems people are assuming that op's bf went without sex for the two months it took for her to come around. Doubtful, imo.
> 
> Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?


Yes. If she also didn't know about it, he would be as morally problematic as her behavior.

So it would be two people behaving badly, not just one.

Do you think two people being fellow murderers exonerates them?


----------



## samyeagar

jaharthur said:


> True, she can sleep with anybody she wants. Nothing illegal about it. If she's unable to see the obvious consequences, that's on her.
> 
> She, as is true with everyone, male female or whatever, *IS obligated* to treat a "special" person--any person--with respect. She didn't.


I wouldn't go that far. It's entirely up to her how she treats someone, and it is up to them to decide if they want to accept it though. Again, one is free to behave how ever they want, but they must realize that there are always consequences for every behavior.


----------



## jaharthur

lisab0105 said:


> Guy and girl meet on website. They go out on dates and have sex for about a month 1/2. No talk of exclusivity, but the conversation of seeing other people does not come up.
> 
> One morning she learns from seeing an empty box of condoms in the trash can that he is having sex with someone else. She is hurt as she didn't realize that he was seeing and much less having sex with anyone else. When questioned he says "We never agreed to be exclusive." She liked him and assumed that he really liked her, definitely wouldn't be sleeping with any one else.
> 
> So, does that mean he was in the wrong? He cheated even though there was no talk about exclusivity in the short time frame? Or is it okay because no one was being denied sex?


If he didn't tell her he was going to f*ck around, then yes, he's in the wrong.

This stuff isn't very hard. It's basic integrity.


----------



## jaharthur

samyeagar said:


> I wouldn't go that far. It's entirely up to her how she treats someone, and it is up to them to decide if they want to accept it though. Again, one is free to behave how ever they want, but they must realize that there are always consequences for every behavior.


OK, I'll take that correction. She was not obligated to do a darn thing. But that doesn't mean her actions weren't wrong and she shouldn't be surprised at the consequences.


----------



## LongWalk

Lonnie,

Were you living together?
Have you had more contact?
You have an uphill climb but one thing that you can offer to do is radical honesty. He can ask you anything and you can simply answer so that he can learn about you. 

As long as you feel he is a person of integrity and will not gossip about you, this may be a way to win back trust.


----------



## samyeagar

jaharthur said:


> OK, I'll take that correction. She was not obligated to do a darn thing. But that doesn't mean her actions weren't wrong and s*he shouldn't be surprised at the consequences*.


This right here. Too many people are buying into the crap that they are free to do anything they want without consequences.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Blondilocks said:


> It seems people are assuming that op's bf went without sex for the two months it took for her to come around. Doubtful, imo.
> 
> Would it make a difference in your opinion if you knew her bf was getting laid elsewhere?


I'm curious why you think it is doubtful. I would say the average single and unattached guy isn't getting laid like tile. Some are but it is more likely they aren't.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## vellocet

lisab0105 said:


> She called him her soul mate now...she never indicated that she felt that way about him _then_.


Here is what she said:



> We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. *I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right*.


Who seeks to "do it right" with someone if they don't desire to build a relationship with them? She wanted to "do it right" with one guy so as to snag herself that good guy, but wanted to give it up to the jackass.

So her words above indicate she was trying to build a relationship with her bf at the time she shagged the other guy.

Regardless, her bf feels she cheated. If I had been seeing someone a month, that tends to be pretty serious, and obviously Lonnie felt the same way by her admission.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

lisab0105 said:


> Guy and girl meet on website. They go out on dates and have sex for about a month 1/2. No talk of exclusivity, but the conversation of seeing other people does not come up.
> 
> One morning she learns from seeing an empty box of condoms in the trash can that he is having sex with someone else. She is hurt as she didn't realize that he was seeing and much less having sex with anyone else. When questioned he says "We never agreed to be exclusive." She liked him and assumed that he really liked her, definitely wouldn't be sleeping with any one else.
> 
> So, does that mean he was in the wrong? He cheated even though there was no talk about exclusivity in the short time frame? Or is it okay because no one was being denied sex?


While I think you can argue over whether it was cheating, I do think it was wrong as a lie of ommission. She is completely right to say that she does not want to be in a relationship with someone who would act in such a way.


----------



## vellocet

lisab0105 said:


> And she is free to pick and choose who she sleeps with. If she wasn't ready to sleep with him then, that was her right.


And he is free to dump her for dating someone else behind his back.

And I think the sex issue is just icing on the cake. The real issue is that she was seeing someone behind his back *while* she was "trying to do it right" with bf.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

vellocet said:


> lisab0105 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She called him her soul mate now...she never indicated that she felt that way about him _then_.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what she said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. *I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who seeks to "do it right" with someone if they don't desire to build a relationship with them? She wanted to "do it right" with one guy so as to snag herself that good guy, but wanted to give it up to the jackass.
> 
> So her words above indicate she was trying to build a relationship with her bf at the time she shagged the other guy.
> 
> Regardless, her bf feels she cheated. If I had been seeing someone a month, that tends to be pretty serious, and obviously Lonnie felt the same way by her admission.
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. I don't know if a month would indicate 'serious' for me but certainly it would indicate my interest in seeing if it can become a long term relationship. I would not be seeing other people at that point.

Now she did follow up with a post that changes the timeline and makes it seem more innocuous but I tend to trust the original post.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## vellocet

lisab0105 said:


> Guy and girl meet on website. They go out on dates and have sex for about a month 1/2. No talk of exclusivity, but the conversation of seeing other people does not come up.
> 
> One morning she learns from seeing an empty box of condoms in the trash can that he is having sex with someone else. She is hurt as she didn't realize that he was seeing and much less having sex with anyone else. When questioned he says "We never agreed to be exclusive." She liked him and assumed that he really liked her, definitely wouldn't be sleeping with any one else.
> 
> So, does that mean he was in the wrong? He cheated even though there was no talk about exclusivity in the short time frame? Or is it okay because no one was being denied sex?


Yes, he is wrong IF he wanted to build a relationship with her. Because last I checked, those that want to build something with someone doesn't go about it by shagging other people at the same time.


----------



## jaharthur

vellocet said:


> Yes, he is wrong IF he wanted to build a relationship with her. Because last I checked, those that want to build something with someone doesn't go about it by shagging other people at the same time.


I'd say he is in the wrong in that hypo _*whether or not he wanted to build a relationship*_. He should have told her that he was going to continue sleeping with other women. I just don't get the idea that there's no duty to disclose one's intentions unless a direct question is asked. He didn't lie in the hypo, but neither was he transparent and candid, as I would expect everyone (man or woman) to be in those circumstances.


----------



## Blondilocks

JCD said:


> Yes. If she also didn't know about it, he would be as morally problematic as her behavior.
> 
> So it would be two people behaving badly, not just one.
> 
> Do you think two people being fellow murderers exonerates them?


Good Lord! This thread has officially jumped the shark.


----------



## lovelygirl

Blondilocks said:


> why she was expected to maintain celibacy just because she went on a few dates with one guy who hadn't declared his intention to be exclusive. Women aren't mind-readers any more than men are.


Who said she should have maintained celibacy?
She could f*ck the other guy as much as she wanted if her BF would agree to that. 
If not, then it wouldn't be fair to do it behind his back.


----------



## lovelygirl

vellocet said:


> No, that would be you. Its obvious in the tone of your posts.
> 
> I simply have experience in this exact type of scenario. I was in the same position as her bf. *However I wasn't quite as upset as her bf is. I simply ended the relationship.*


What made you maintain the cold nerves?
Not being in love with her?
or
Is it your type to never get angry?


----------



## lovelygirl

vellocet said:


> Exactly
> 
> When it happened, and I found out, I told her that perhaps we need to part ways. She basically told me that I can't be mad because we didn't have an exclusivity talk.
> 
> I told her I wasn't mad and that she was correct. But then told her that if she wanted exclusivity with me later, that wasn't the way to go about it and that if it was her intention to see other people, then I should have been made aware.
> 
> So told her I wasn't mad, but that I simply didn't see the need to continue in the relationship. And like you said, that pissed her off, which further validated my course of action.


Would it make a difference for you if she told you right then and there that she was willing to give up dating/sleeping with those guys and date only you?


----------



## samyeagar

lovelygirl said:


> What made you maintain the cold nerves?
> Not being in love with her?
> or
> Is it your type to never get angry?


Self respect and firm boundaries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

Whenever these types of arguments come up on TAM , my take is usually very simple.

People have different levels of morality and I believe that if a person thinks that its ok to sleep around with lots of persons whilst involved in an intimate relationship with another person , until " negotiations" are competed, then they should simply find someone who believes in the same moral values as them.

So if they are sleeping around , their partner / soulmate would also be sleeping around , and whenever they're ready they can
" negotiate" whatever sleeping around arrangements they want to.

In that way, people of a different value system who actually place real value on integrity in ALL OF THEIR DEALINGS , would be exempt from their dating pool and free from that sort of emotional torment.


but then the question would still exist.
Do they have the integrity to say upfront ; "_ hey , I'm still sleeping around , so you can too if you felt like it , even though we're soulmates.."_
I doubt it.


----------



## samyeagar

One subtext I see on this thread is that she felt her sex was a prize for her boyfired, yet her actions did not hold to that. In the case of my STBW and I, she has been with over 30 men ad did not bother to try that pretext with me. It is likely I will never see her sex as a coveted prize because her actions show it's not. She has however given me something far more valuable. Openness, honesty and respect. She understands my feelings, and sees my value in this relationship, sees me as someone she wants, and her actions have shown at every turn just how valuable I am to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet

lovelygirl said:


> What made you maintain the cold nerves?
> Not being in love with her?
> or
> Is it your type to never get angry?


Oh no, I get angry. She was correct that we didn't have that exclusivity talk, but it still wasn't the way to go about winning my heart over.

That and I was much younger back then and figured the last thing I wanted was a girl that dates someone behind my back while I'm trying to give her the respect of my time and consideration. I wouldn't have done that to her.

So I simply realized better I find out what she is like now than later. And I was a little miffed at her, but it simply wasn't worth getting all worked up over. She multidated me, it turned me off, it was over. Simple as that.


----------



## vellocet

lovelygirl said:


> Would it make a difference for you if she told you right then and there that she was willing to give up dating/sleeping with those guys and date only you?


No. Because one, I wouldn't trust her after that, and two, she doesn't get to use me to pay for our dates, then go get it from another guy too. I don't waste my affections on someone that goes off and gets it from more than just me.
A gal only gets to pull the wool over my eyes once.


----------



## vellocet

There is a reason most people that multidate wouldn't say upfront to all parties involved that they are seeing other people too.

If anyone thinks that multidating is ok, or that its not disrespect because they didn't have "the talk", then answer the following:

Why do you think people that do this do not upfront say something like, "Just so you know, I am seeing someone else/other people"?


----------



## samyeagar

vellocet said:


> There is a reason most people that multidate wouldn't say upfront to all parties involved that they are seeing other people too.
> 
> If anyone thinks that multidating is ok, or that its not disrespect because they didn't have "the talk", then answer the following:
> 
> Why do you think people that do this do not upfront say something like, "Just so you know, I am seeing someone else/other people"?


They know that it is a deal breaker for a lot of people and they don't want to risk running into someone elses boundaries with openness and honesty, so to avoid that, they decide to lie by omission.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

I hope Lonnie will have the courage to speak up here. Tough discussion to read.

Lonnie was changing her mating strategy. She slept with the jerk because sexual desire, boredom and curiosity ruled. At the same time she wanted to find someone to build a family with. These two conflicting tendencies appear hypocritical, but actually couldn't we say she was evolving as person? Can't we respect this?

Lonnie knew, as most women instinctively know, the appearance of promiscuity often has a backlash. The man who gets sex easily becomes suspicious that the sexually accessible woman is not good material to build a family with.

Probably both men and women don't like the idea of spouse who have had too many partners. But what constitutes too many? It probably differs for men and women.


----------



## vellocet

samyeagar said:


> They know that it is a deal breaker for a lot of people and they don't want to risk running into someone elses boundaries with openness and honesty, so to avoid that, they decide to lie by omission.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. So then if they don't want to risk losing someone they think they would like to keep seeing, then maybe they shouldn't mess around with other people. Maybe? Perhaps? I don't know.

But I'd like to see someone that thinks this kind of two timing is ok answer that. Or do you think there is nothing wrong with multidating and not giving the other parties a choice in the matter? I'm thinking because you answered the way you did that you think the other parties deserve to know what the score is.


----------



## samyeagar

vellocet said:


> Exactly. So then if they don't want to risk losing someone they think they would like to keep seeing, then maybe they shouldn't mess around with other people. Maybe? Perhaps? I don't know.
> 
> But I'd like to see someone that thinks this kind of two timing is ok answer that. Or do you think there is nothing wrong with multidating and not giving the other parties a choice in the matter? I'm thinking because you answered the way you did that you think the other parties deserve to know what the score is.


And that leads into the point I have been hammering...they make the decision without considering the consequences. I'm not sure anyone deserves to know it up front as much as the peron not disclosing should be prepared for the results of their decisio. For me personally, I would not tolerate this. Her decision is hers, and mie is mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet

samyeagar said:


> And that leads into the point I have been hammering...they make the decision without considering the consequences. I'm not sure anyone deserves to know it up front as much as the peron not disclosing should be prepared for the results of their decisio. For me personally, I would not tolerate this. Her decision is hers, and mie is mine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. As one of her apologists would say, "its her right to date more than one person if she wants"(paraphrasing)

And the other person reserves the right to dump her for it as well.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

LongWalk said:


> I hope Lonnie will have the courage to speak up here. Tough discussion to read.
> 
> Lonnie was changing her mating strategy. She slept with the jerk because sexual desire, boredom and curiosity ruled. At the same time she wanted to find someone to build a family with. These two conflicting tendencies appear hypocritical, but actually couldn't we say she was evolving as person? Can't we respect this?


I am curious why you characterize this as evolving. 

I can see the argument that she has evolved since then, but at the time, she was aware enough of both men to consider one as someone special enough to want to do things the right way, and the other as a womanizer. With the first, she played the role of a good girl one who had to be courted, while with the other she played the role of a good time girl interested in some quick fun.

Again, nothing wrong with either per se, but it sure looks like she was just playing the different roles to get what she wanted. I don't see any evolution in these events.


----------



## LongWalk

TAG,

You may be right. Only Lonnie can say more about her state of mind. But I assume that many women, have sex partners for whom they have no ambitions. After seeing their dating life leading nowhere, they struggle to change the pattern. Many do because they want to marry. How fundamentally do they regret what they consider their past promiscuity?

I think hurt, being dumped, catching STD's, etc. all contribute to change. 

What do you suggest Lonnie can do to win her boyfriend back?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

LongWalk said:


> What do you suggest Lonnie can do to win her boyfriend back?


I don't know that there is anything she can do. She can be honest, explain her feelings now for him and ask what he needs to know. But if he feels duped (and her having been with a guy he hates must make it even worse), not much she can do about it.

I might have better advice if I knew how he found out.


----------



## samyeagar

vellocet said:


> Exactly. As one of her apologists would say, "its her right to date more than one person if she wants"(paraphrasing)
> 
> And the other person reserves the right to dump her for it as well.


Absolutely they reserve that right, but that is the part that is often overlooked when the 'you can do anything' crowd pushes their mantra. I don't see what she did as inherantly wrong, but it is clearly not in line with what her boyfriend considered acceptable. They are just not on the same page. It happens, and no, you can't have it all just because you want it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolf1974

lisab0105 said:


> Sure you feel a connection. But some of you are using the soul mate as ammo against her...and you really shouldn't. She never said "I felt he was my soul mate when we met" or "when we were first dating."
> 
> She felt they could have something special...but she only used the word soul mate to describe their current relationship and her current feelings for him now.


I'm not using anything against anyone those are her words and not mine. When they are applied isn't of concern. She said she felt something with this guy, thought he was special, wanted to do it right, and at some point felt he was her soulmate.....but she screwed some other guy in the process lol. Kinda takes the special meaning out of the whole thing don't ya think.


----------



## jaharthur

I'm liking samyeager's theme more and more. Not just in the circumstances in this thread, but in so many others, people don't think about the consequences of their actions.

The OP's story, if we were all-knowing, might be incredibly sad. She said that over the year with the bf she had changed and realized she had chosen guys for the wrong reasons in the past. The bf might indeed have been a great long-term partner. All likely lost because she didn't consider the potential consequences of a two-week fling with the bad boy. Or maybe she just didn't care at that point.

Sad, but a lesson for all.


----------



## samyeagar

Wolf1974 said:


> I'm not using anything against anyone those are her words and not mine. When they are applied isn't of concern. She said she felt something with this guy, thought he was special, wanted to do it right, and at some point felt he was her soulmate.....but she screwed some other guy in the process lol. Kinda takes the special meaning out of the whole thing don't ya think.


I think she knew her boyfriend saw sex as a prize and assumed that since he felt that way, hers automatically had value and what she didn't know was that she is the only one who can set that value.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Lonnie, sorry about this. Most of this discussion isn't really about your situation any more.

At this point, we are just arguing with one another about morality.

An interesting waste of time, but we tend to like it.


----------



## LonnieHere

So i came back on. I've only skimmed some of the replies, there's just too many of them and i'm just in a sad mood. So things have not gone well since yesterday.

We had another long talk and he didn't say he wants to leave me but he did say he wants a "break" whatever that really means.

I mostly listened and tried to be a good listener. He is way pissed at everything. He says i put on an act for him. I said that maybe at first i did because i wanted him to think positive of me but in the last year what he's seen really is the real me.

For sure he has a bruised ego. He's angry that i waited to get intimate with him but "had no problem" doing it right away with the other guy. I kept saying that he's the most special guy in the world to me but he kept saying that he doesn't feel all that special. He kept hammering on his view that it should have been the special guy (him) that got it fast, not some other guy i didn't care about. I just don't know how to respond without offending or hurting him more. And if he was special why did i go for the other guy. I said it was an incredibly stupid mistake that that i amtruly sorry which i am


----------



## 6301

DoF said:


> I still can't help but to laugh at OP for calling this guy her "soul mate"
> 
> :rofl:


 Why not? He gets her soul and the other guy gets everything else.


----------



## happi_g_more2

LonnieHere said:


> So i came back on. I've only skimmed some of the replies, there's just too many of them and i'm just in a sad mood. So things have not gone well since yesterday.
> 
> We had another long talk and he didn't say he wants to leave me but he did say he wants a "break" whatever that really means.
> 
> I mostly listened and tried to be a good listener. He is way pissed at everything. He says i put on an act for him. I said that maybe at first i did because i wanted him to think positive of me but in the last year what he's seen really is the real me.
> 
> For sure he has a bruised ego. He's angry that i waited to get intimate with him but "had no problem" doing it right away with the other guy. I kept saying that he's the most special guy in the world to me but he kept saying that he doesn't feel all that special. He kept hammering on his view that it should have been the special guy (him) that got it fast, not some other guy i didn't care about. I just don't know how to respond without offending or hurting him more. And if he was special why did i go for the other guy. I said it was an incredibly stupid mistake that that i amtruly sorry which i am


Decide how long a break you are willing to sit through. Tell him, you love him, you understand and you will wait for him for however long it takes. Then actually do it. That doesnt mean wait a week or 2, then go out with girls, get drunk and bone some guy. It means, wait.


----------



## larry.gray

lisab0105 said:


> There have been TONS!!!!
> 
> Double standards run rampant here.


I already asked you to provide links to specific examples. Without those examples, you're asking us to disprove a negative.

MRA dude also was issued the challenge. Neither are stepping it up. I'm now accusing you of getting bent out of shape about something that is only occurring in your mind.


----------



## larry.gray

vellocet said:


> No, that would be you. Its obvious in the tone of your posts.
> 
> I simply have experience in this exact type of scenario. I was in the same position as her bf. However I wasn't quite as upset as her bf is. I simply ended the relationship.


The dude my wife was dating before me pulled this crap on her. Figgin nearly the same scenario. She did exactly the same thing. Dumped him like a bag of stinky potatoes. 

As far as she was concerned, it was 'cheating.' So here we have a woman reacting the same way.


----------



## bandit.45

LonnieHere said:


> So i came back on. I've only skimmed some of the replies, there's just too many of them and i'm just in a sad mood. So things have not gone well since yesterday.
> 
> We had another long talk and he didn't say he wants to leave me but he did say he wants a "break" whatever that really means.
> 
> I mostly listened and tried to be a good listener. He is way pissed at everything. He says i put on an act for him. I said that maybe at first i did because i wanted him to think positive of me but in the last year what he's seen really is the real me.
> 
> For sure he has a bruised ego. He's angry that i waited to get intimate with him but "had no problem" doing it right away with the other guy. I kept saying that he's the most special guy in the world to me but he kept saying that he doesn't feel all that special. He kept hammering on his view that it should have been the special guy (him) that got it fast, not some other guy i didn't care about. I just don't know how to respond without offending or hurting him more. And if he was special why did i go for the other guy. I said it was an incredibly stupid mistake that that i amtruly sorry which i am


Im sorry it went south like this. All you can do is wait, stay celibate for a while and hope he changes his mind. 

Wait until he gives you a final answer. Don't date or sleep with anyone during that time. 

But that doesn't mean you have to wait forever.


----------



## lisab0105

larry.gray said:


> I already asked you to provide links to specific examples. Without those examples, you're asking us to disprove a negative.
> 
> MRA dude also was issued the challenge. Neither are stepping it up. I'm now accusing you of getting bent out of shape about something that is only occurring in your mind.


F'ck it...I totally edited my post because that bullsh*t you just said isn't worth getting banned over.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoktorFun

LonnieHere said:


> So i came back on. I've only skimmed some of the replies, there's just too many of them and i'm just in a sad mood. So things have not gone well since yesterday.
> 
> We had another long talk and he didn't say he wants to leave me but he did say he wants a "break" whatever that really means.
> 
> I mostly listened and tried to be a good listener. He is way pissed at everything. He says i put on an act for him. I said that maybe at first i did because i wanted him to think positive of me but in the last year what he's seen really is the real me.
> 
> For sure he has a bruised ego. He's angry that i waited to get intimate with him but "had no problem" doing it right away with the other guy. I kept saying that he's the most special guy in the world to me but he kept saying that he doesn't feel all that special. He kept hammering on his view that it should have been the special guy (him) that got it fast, not some other guy i didn't care about. I just don't know how to respond without offending or hurting him more. And if he was special why did i go for the other guy. I said it was an incredibly stupid mistake that that i amtruly sorry which i am




Your "miserable one year no sex jerking off and feeling special" Boyfriend...

I really feel sorry for him. :scratchhead:

OP, you should leave him alone for ever... 
*
It's simple, he deserve better!*


----------



## Ripper

Whatever may come, OP's "soul mate" just got schooled in Modern Woman 101.


----------



## larry.gray

vellocet said:


> Exactly. So then if they don't want to risk losing someone they think they would like to keep seeing, then maybe they shouldn't mess around with other people. Maybe? Perhaps? I don't know.


Either that or have the honesty to realize that if you think multi-dating that includes sex is OK, you should stick with other people that think it is OK too.

Pick one or the other.


----------



## larry.gray

lisab0105 said:


> F'ck it...I totally edited my post because that bullsh*t you just said isn't worth getting banned over.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dang, I missed it.... I hate it when that happens. Was it good? 

No, I'm not going to report you, but I do know there are people out to get you so they may have.

I did report the one right after yours though.


----------



## Windwalker

lisab0105 said:


> F'ck it...I totally edited my post because that bullsh*t you just said isn't worth getting banned over.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




How would you get banned over providing links to back up your statement? I have posted links to information. I have seen other people post links as well.

Here's a link full of links.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...ility-b4-vows-beyond-marital-harmony-joy.html




I have read every page and at this point every one is really discussing morality at this point. I can add my 02.

Here is a diagram of the situation. May not be 100% accurate but, from her description, this is what I got.

Lonnie and BF - Waiting - Week 1
Lonnie and BF - Waiting - Week 2
Lonnie and BF - Waiting - Week 3
Lonnie and BF - Waiting - Week 4
Lonnie and BF - Waiting - Week 5 - Hot monkey sex with douche
Lonnie and BF - Waiting - Week 6 - Hot monkey sex with douche, and it didn't work out.
Lonnie and BF - Waiting - Week 7
Lonnie and BF - Waiting - Week 8
Lonnie and BF - SEX - Week 9

Now, as long as she is only seeing BF and Mr. Douche, how is this not cheating??? If she is seeing more than just the two of them, then it's just a matter of her playing the field. It happens.

Regardless, she has the given right to do as she wants with her body, but its also the BF's given right to tell her to hit the road.

And as far as I am concerned, any *man or woman* that acts like she did, is not worth my time to associate with.

I work on the road and I see infidelity everyday. I have told many many many guys that I don't trust them. I might have to work with you through no choice of my own, but I absolutely do not trust you. I tell them, How do I trust you when you betray the one person you swore to love, honor and cherish. It's just a matter of time before you betray me.


Sorry, I see the OP's situation very similar.


----------



## jaharthur

Ripper said:


> Whatever may come, OP's "soul mate" just got schooled in Modern Woman 101.


You're giving credence to those saying TAM is full of a double standard. I disagree.

I'd say he got schooled in Modern Courting and Sex 101. Women are now free to be cads just as many men were in the past. It's equal opportunity.


----------



## larry.gray

Windwalker said:


> How would you get banned over providing links to back up your statement?


She wouldn't.

She would get banned for calling me nasty names. I presume because I've struck a nerve.


----------



## RClawson

LonnieHere said:


> *I kept saying that he's the most special guy in the world to me but he kept saying that he doesn't feel all that special*.


And nothing you can say even if you do get back together is ever going to change this. The damage is done and I doubt it can be mended. I do applaud you letting him know before you made everything legal. 

Listen Lonnie my W did something very similar to you but she left out enormous amounts of detail. I know now if she had been straight up with me I would have broken off the engagement.


----------



## Pufferfish

LonnieHere said:


> We had another long talk and he didn't say he wants to leave me but he did say he wants a "break" whatever that really means.
> 
> I mostly listened and tried to be a good listener. He is way pissed at everything. He says i put on an act for him. I said that maybe at first i did because i wanted him to think positive of me but in the last year what he's seen really is the real me.
> 
> For sure he has a bruised ego. He's angry that i waited to get intimate with him but "had no problem" doing it right away with the other guy. I kept saying that he's the most special guy in the world to me but he kept saying that he doesn't feel all that special. He kept hammering on his view that it should have been the special guy (him) that got it fast, not some other guy i didn't care about. I just don't know how to respond without offending or hurting him more. And if he was special why did i go for the other guy. I said it was an incredibly stupid mistake that that i amtruly sorry which i am


Dear LonnieHere,

The number of posts looks overwhelming because your subject has touched a raw nerve. Some of it is good advice. But it's past the stage of analyzing what you did. So Let me give it to you straight and simple from a typical guy. I hope you read this. 

What you did was a serious affront to your man. No ifs and buts. Right now it looks like your man is looking for a reason NOT to dump you so you have to be proactive now. What's done is done. Own it, be sorry for it and be remorseful for it. Just to state the obvious:-

a). You CHOSE to give yourself to another guy before your man. This is what you did. To your man, your reasons mean nothing. Saying the other guy means nothing and was a jerk will make it worse because your man will think that means he is worth even less than that;

b). Convince and remind him of why he loves you and why you were together. I obviously can't say how because you know him best;

c). Convince him that the other guy is in NO WAY any part of your life and NEVER WILL BE;

d). Convince him that he is your one and only;

e). Time apart to cool down is OK but you really have to be careful and limit it. The moment he thinks he can be without you or gets over you, he is GONE;

f). Answer his questions honestly and fully. Even those that you find intrusive or offensive;

g). If you want to save this, you will need to grovel; and 

h). This can't be fixed overnight. You will have to be in for the long haul (I'm talking months and or even years assuming you even get that far).

I wish I got more for you, but like I said, you know him best. Look up other threads on TAM about advice for wayward spouse looking to reconcile. They are relevant to your case. 

Sure it's manipulative. But it's the only play you got. 

Good luck.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

ScarletBegonias said:


> If the bf wasn't aware he was the only one being exclusive then yes,it's cheating.If he was aware they weren't exclusive then no, it's not cheating.


In this case there was no agreement on exclusivity therefore it's not cheating.


----------



## NextTimeAround

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> In this case there was no agreement on exclusivity therefore it's not cheating.


It may not be cheating in the legal / literal sense, but some people would prefer not to play word games and try to guess coded messages with their SO for the rest of their lives.

Lonnie, another that may arise with your bf is that he may remember times when you told him you weren't available or worse when you cancelled at the last moment or worse, when you flat out stood him up. 

Or any thing else that he may reinterpret now that he has more information about the person he was dating at least at that time. You got to be ready for those unpleasant revelations should they arise.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5

My advice is probably not what the OP wants to hear but here goes.

If I were you I would end this relationship. The percentage of guys who could TRULY move past this has got to be tiny. From your boyfriend's comments it sounds like he will not be moving past this anytime soon-years is a likely outcome. If you guys get back together this issue will ALWAYS be there between you. I know, I know, you think you guys will be different. Most likely, you won't be different and this issue will cause misery.

So, in my opinion, you should respect him and end this relationship and let him move on.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5

And to Lisa and any of the other bitter people posting, yes this would be cheating regardless of the gender of the person. I have yet to see a thread like this on TAM -man or woman- where the majority said this kind of behavior was cool. 

There are lots of double standards on TAM- infidelity has a ton- but this isn't one of them.


----------



## NextTimeAround

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> My advice is probably not what the OP wants to hear but here goes.
> 
> If I were you I would end this relationship. The percentage of guys who could TRULY move past this has got to be tiny. From your boyfriend's comments it sounds like he will not be moving past this anytime soon-years is a likely outcome. If you guys get back together this issue will ALWAYS be there between you. I know, I know, you think you guys will be different. Most likely, you won't be different and this issue will cause misery.
> 
> So, in my opinion, you should respect him and end this relationship and let him move on.


One thing to think about is how much this douche (as you've called him) might continue to communicate to others about your brief liaison together.

I decided to do a count of entries that my fiance's just a friend ex did on his FB wall. Just one for the five months before she knew about me. 8 times during the 3 months that she knew about me but I knew nothing about her and 4 times for the next 10 months until he defriended her.

She also "liked" concerts that he went to but I didn't, hookay ........ some people refuse to remain discrete.


----------



## alexm

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> In this case there was no agreement on exclusivity therefore it's not cheating.


Different people have different views on this, and that's okay.

But in the grand scheme of things, it is very likely that OP's boyfriend thought he was the only person she was dating during that time, therefore to him, he had been cheated on. Add to that the fact that he only recently found out. OP could have nipped this in the bud, way back when SHE made the decision that they were exclusive, and let him know about it. But she didn't.

Regardless, this whole "agreement on exclusivity" is a sham. To paraphrase Caribbean Man, "it allows her to have her cake and eat it too".

The bottom line is that it is a technicality, and one that people use to their advantage when necessary. In this case, it also appears that OP kept it in her back pocket just in case her boyfriend ever found out. I highly doubt she spent the last year not thinking twice about it. In fact, as soon as she fell in love with her boyfriend, she probably started to hope that it was never exposed, as she'd know the potential damage it could have done.

The lesson she needs to learn here is not that multi-dating is a horrible thing to do (that's very subjective) - it's that if one is multi-dating, they must be cognizant of the repercussions if you end up with one of the partners long-term. In her case, she really was eating her cake - she was having fun with the bad-boy (sex or not) and was being treated like a princess with the other guy. She was getting the best of both worlds. Most of us, men and women, are like that. We are attracted to the bad-boy/girl, but we actually require the romantic aspect of dating, too. You can't get both from the same person. She got greedy.

Whether or not she's a different person now is irrelevant. She was like this the first month or two they were dating.

So is it cheating in the true sense of the word? To her, no. She was casually dating two guys. To him, yes. He didn't know she was dating someone else. Hell, if I found out my wife was dating (and not even sleeping with) another guy during the first month or two we were dating, I wouldn't have gone any further. Why? Because my mindset is that I would have been dating to find a partner, whereas she would have been dating just to have fun, or worse yet, throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. Two people really need to be on the same page right from the start, imo.

And what doesn't help is that this other guy was the antithesis of the boyfriend. Most of us, men and women, who know about our spouses past partners usually wonder what they saw in this guy, or that guy, and the fact that WE are the complete opposite of some of these people (especially if there's a pattern) makes us wonder if we are being settled for, or we're "safe", or whatever. Case in point, anybody my ex wife had dated before me was tall, slim and had long hair. She had a type. She married me, average height, average/muscular build, short hair. The 2 men she had affairs with were tall, slim, and the third guy she eventually left me for and married? Tall, slim, long hair.

Is OP a horrible person? No, of course not. I don't believe she intended to fall in love with her boyfriend. At the time, she was just dating, plain and simple. However, in my opinion, and what seems to be the general consensus here, is that if you are multi-dating you:

1) make sure all parties involved are aware
2) don't sleep with one, or both parties, unless they're both aware
3) make sure you don't get attached to one of them
3a) and if you do, be forthcoming to them from the beginning (this rule applies to all relationships, by the way, regardless of how they began. WAY too many posts on here about wives or husbands discovering things about their spouses that date back years, or even decades)

So she has to take this entire thing as a learning experience, right from the start. Her boyfriend tamed her, got her to settle down, and she's already come a long way from the jumping into bed with bad-boys, multi-dating, etc. She's realized she's ready, and able, to settle down. So if she finds herself single again, she'll know not to repeat this type of thing. It's a valuable life/dating lesson that we all have to learn, in different forms. She now knows that honesty should be there from the start, literally from the first date onwards - not just when she draws the line as to where the casual aspect crosses over to the serious. As in "oh, I fell in love with him, NOW I'll be honest and forthright and open." No - you start that way with every guy you date, just in case.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Windwalker said:


> Now, as long as she is only seeing BF and Mr. Douche, how is this not cheating??? If she is seeing more than just the two of them, then it's just a matter of her playing the field. It happens.


Wait. If Lonnie was seeing only her BF and the Mr. Douche early on, it's cheating. But if Lonnie was seeing the BF, Mr. Douche AND a 3rd guy, it's just playing the field - it happens???

I disagree.


----------



## NextTimeAround

> She was casually dating two guys.


Except that most men who hope that sex is not considered casual, at least by the one that they are serious about.




> Is she a horrible person? No, of course not. I don't believe she intended to fall in love with her boyfriend. At the time, she was just dating, plain and simple. However, in my opinion, and what seems to be the general consensus here, is that if you are multi-dating you:
> 
> 1) make sure all parties involved are aware
> 2) don't sleep with one, or both parties, unless they're both aware
> 3) make sure you don't get attached to one of them
> 3a) and if you do, be forthcoming to them from the beginning (this rule applies to all relationships, by the way, regardless of how they began. WAY too many posts on here about wives or husbands discovering things about their spouses that date back years, or even decades)


Add to that:

1. Treat them all equally. If you have receipts and statements floating around that show that you went all out for the one that dissed you but barely a peep for the birthday for the that you end up with...... that's not going to be good..... for example.....

2. Ensure that each knows only as much as the other about one another. 

3. If anyone of your dating partners wants to give you advice about someone else you are dating, shut it down as quickly as possible. If this conversation took place over a messaging service, make sure you get a message out there that tells them the advice is not welcomed. And that you avoided them for a couple of weeks after that....

4. Don't talk in coded messages, it may come back to haunt you. I still remember the remark "Do you mind if I see other women but just as friends?"

so one minute, I am supposed to get that my (future) fiance is not on the exclusive track with me yet ......... but when he wants to justify keeping his just a friend ex around (while he is taking up my time now), he insists that she's "just a friend." 

Yes, but you just told me that I should have known from that other "friend" remark that you wanted to date her..... now which is it?


----------



## tulsy

LonnieHere said:


> ...He says i put on an act for him. I said that maybe at first i did because i wanted him to think positive of me but in the last year what he's seen really is the real me.


He's right...you're fake. You're wrong...it's ALL the real you. The before and after, all your actions make up what it is to be you. You wanted him to think you were something that you simple aren't. Just because you are exclusive to him now doesn't eliminate that. He's sees who you truly are now, and you still don't want to see it yourself.



LonnieHere said:


> I said it was an incredibly stupid mistake that that i amtruly sorry which i am


You're only sorry that he found out about it. If you were truly sorry you would have told him about it, at the very least, after it happened. A mistake is something you do once, and usually doesn't involve genitals. 

If I was your boyfriend I would never be able to forget what you did. Even if I stayed in a relationship with you, it would always come back to haunt me from time to time. It would piss me off that you kept that part of yourself from me, and it would piss me off that you tried to convince me (and yourself) that you aren't really that kind of girl. That just perpetuates how fake you are.

He's never gonna believe it. Just sayin'.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

NextTimeAround said:


> It may not be cheating in the legal / literal sense, but some people would prefer not to play word games and try to guess coded messages with their SO for the rest of their lives.
> 
> Lonnie, another that may arise with your bf is that he may remember times when you told him you weren't available or worse when you cancelled at the last moment or worse, when you flat out stood him up.
> 
> Or any thing else that he may reinterpret now that he has more information about the person he was dating at least at that time. You got to be ready for those unpleasant revelations should they arise.


There is no coding or word games if you agree to something. You agree to have an exclusive relationship the same way you agree to move in together or get married. Even kids ask if someone wants to be their boy/girlfriend. Especially in this case since they didn't even have sex so there's no implied or assumed exclusivity. It's not that hard to ask. The good time would be after the first time of having sex. Maybe I'm different but people on this board seem to have problems with simple communication with the opposite sex.


----------



## Jellybeans

Did OP ever say how he found out?


----------



## Jellybeans

JCD said:


> Lonnie, sorry about this. Most of this discussion isn't really about your situation any more.
> 
> *At this point, we are just arguing with one another about morality.*
> 
> An interesting waste of time, but we tend to like it.


:iagree:


----------



## NextTimeAround

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> There is no coding or word games if you agree to something. You agree to have an exclusive relationship the same way you agree to move in together or get married. Even kids ask if someone wants to be their boy/girlfriend. Especially in this case since they didn't even have sex so there's no implied or assumed exclusivity. It's not that hard to ask. The good time would be after the first time of having sex. Maybe I'm different but people on this board seem to have problems with simple communication with the opposite sex.



this is why people need to be careful with throwing around labels like "soulmate." For some like me, that means that you know oh so well, that nothing else matters...... even the hot douche that comes up from behind....

I remember dating a guy who tried to throw around the "M" word. So I had some suppositions as to what he was looking for..... the minute he asked if he could move in with me and "pay me something towards the rent", he killed any desire that I had for him because I have a different view of someone who wants to marry me compared to someone who just wants to live with me.

This is one of those situations in which people need to come to terms with how people think and what they expect when they hear label. 

IMO and in the opinion of others around here, being the guy who's left over after she had a (sexual ) fling with another guy is not my definition of being a soulmate.......


----------



## Jellybeans

I don't believe in "soulmates."

To me the concept is hilarious.


----------



## Jellybeans

NextTimeAround said:


> I remember dating a guy who tried to throw around the "M" word. So I had some suppositions as to what he was looking for..... *the minute he asked if he could move in with me and "pay me something towards the rent",* he killed any desire that I had for him


O.M.G. 

Yeah that would have been a libido killer for me, too. LOL. Next!


----------



## samyeagar

Jellybeans said:


> Did OP ever say how he found out?


I really want to know this too. Lonnie...how did he find out? That is an extremely important piece of information...I know that from experience...


----------



## Jellybeans

:iagree:


----------



## Caribbean Man

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> There is no coding or word games if you agree to something. You agree to have an exclusive relationship the same way you agree to move in together or get married. Even kids ask if someone wants to be their boy/girlfriend. Especially in this case since they didn't even have sex so there's no implied or assumed exclusivity. It's not that hard to ask. The good time would be after the first time of having sex. Maybe I'm different but people on this board seem to have problems with simple communication with the opposite sex.


Lol,

I don't think it's communication problem. 

It's an HONESTY problem. Without honesty, there can be no effective communication any way.

Being honest about your intentions , your actions and how you actually feel.

Problems always occur when WORDS don't match up with ACTIONS.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

Caribbean Man said:


> Lol,
> 
> I don't think it's communication problem.
> 
> It's an HONESTY problem. Without honesty, there can be no effective communication any way.
> 
> Being honest about your intentions , your actions and how you actually feel.
> 
> Problems always occur when WORDS don't match up with ACTIONS.


I don't know but the term "dating" is confusing in itself. For some people it means a dinner and a movie with someone they want to get to know. It _does not_ mean the same as relationship to them. They can date multiple people at the same time. On the other hand some people think dating=relationship.

In either case, it's your own good to confirm _verbally _about your relationship status and exclusivity to avoid confusion later on. Especially when you start having sex. If you are too shy perhaps you could take inspiration from kids and write the question on a piece of paper to ask if they want to be your boy/girlfriend.


----------



## Jellybeans

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't think it's communication problem.
> 
> It's an HONESTY problem.


:iagree:


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Jellybeans said:


> I don't believe in "soulmates."
> 
> To me the concept is hilarious.


I do but not in the traditional meaning.I don't think soul mates are necessarily romantic partners.I think soul mates can be anyone. You're supposed to learn from your soul mate. You can be someone's soul mate without having them be your soul mate.I think of soul mate as a teacher that keeps appearing in your life in different forms til you learn the stuff you need to learn.

Some people might call that hokey but that's ok


----------



## NextTimeAround

Or you could frame it as a communication problem.

Some people will talk in detailed legalistic terms. I remember talking with my exH, that I do not want to be with K or J or the two of them together. The last bit i added, concerned that he might say "you didn't say that the tow of them together is a problem" and so is the problem of a LTR, if you have to call all bases in every conversation, that is not healthy......

Sometimes dealing with others, you have to be proactive..... I worried with this guy who wanted to move in with me (and pay something towards the rent while throwing around the "M" word), would he expect that the place be immaculate every day; that everyday he came home from work, would he expect a cooked dinner and so on........ for that something towards the rent that he was paying....... 

but if he he really wanted to squeeze into my tiny apartment, he would have helped his case by being clear about all that he was expecting or not expecting..... _for that something towards the rent that he was offering_

I think this a big difference between men and women. And in undergrad there were a few stories about people who assumed something only to be left high and dry on friday or Saturday evening.....

I don't know who is right or wrong,but if you care, you will ask for clarification sooner rather than later....


----------



## Caribbean Man

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I don't know but the term "dating" is confusing in itself. For some people it means a dinner and a movie with someone they want to get to know. It _does not_ mean the same as relationship to them. They can date multiple people at the same time. On the other hand some people think dating=relationship.
> 
> In either case, it's your own good to confirm _verbally _about your relationship status and exclusivity to avoid confusion later on. Especially when you start having sex. If you are too shy perhaps you could take inspiration from kids and write the question on a piece of paper to ask if they want to be your boy/girlfriend.


Well let me give you my own experience.

Before I started a relationship with my wife I had been around lots of women.

But she and I were just friends long before we started , and she knew about me and the women, she was my confidante. Yup, she was the one whom I told all my dirty secrets, long before we were in a relationship.

When I started having feelings for her,I began to see her in a different light , but obviously , she rejected the idea of both of us being together. 
But I still had feelings for her.
During that time I had the opportunity to have sex with two women, both of them she knew, one of them a real hottie and a childhood friend of hers.
She invited me on a date to a theater production , and I ended up back by her place.
She wanted sex , she began kissing, I stopped ,  to me , It just didn't feel right, because of how I felt for my wife , even though SHE HAD REJECTED ME, and said we could only be just friends.

I just slept on the couch and that girl left for work very early the next morning and left me in her apartment_ with an extra key_.
During the day, I returned the key via her cousin, a good [ male] friend of mine.

I also rejected the other woman.

Anyways, I tried for a THIRD TIME to get my wife to say yes to a relationship with me, I knew she felt the same way I did , but didn't trust me , because of my past.
Guess what she asked me?

"_CM, did you have sex with that same girl?_" [ the hottie , her childhood friend.]
I swore to her nothing happened , and told her that night's events.
She finally decided to give us a chance.

That was more twenty one years ago.

Imagine if I had decided that because we hadn't any " exclusivity " negotiations , I was free to fcuk around a bit until she made up her mind. Funny thing was , she also had two guys who were showing serious interests in her.
We never had to have any " exclusivity " discussions or negotiations. 
It was understood.

If I professed to be interested in a relationship with her and respected her, then how could i have sex with her friend behind her back?

I personally feel that if one has to negotiate exclusivity to the letter of the law in a relationship, that relationship is doomed to fail.

Like I said before , it begins with honesty with oneself.


----------



## LongWalk

And is it too late for honesty now?


----------



## samyeagar

LongWalk said:


> And is it too late for honesty now?


Yes.


----------



## jaharthur

In some areas of law deception includes not only an outright lie but also, in overlegalistic language it can be fraud "to omit to state a material fact necessary in order to make the statements made, in the light of the circumstances under which they were made, not misleading."

In plain language, sometimes *failing *to disclose facts can be fraud if those facts are necessary to avoid misleading someone with half-truths.

There doesn't have to be an "agreement" of exclusivity if the surrounding circumstances would lead a reasonable person to believe there *was *exclusivity. Sure, misunderstandings could be avoided with an explicit agreement (or non-agreement), but that doesn't cover every situation nor does it excuse misleading someone with half-truths. Make a full and honest disclosure or don't complain about the consequences of not having done so.


----------



## happi_g_more2

ScarletBegonias said:


> I do but not in the traditional meaning.I don't think soul mates are necessarily romantic partners.I think soul mates can be anyone. You're supposed to learn from your soul mate. You can be someone's soul mate without having them be your soul mate.I think of soul mate as a teacher that keeps appearing in your life in different forms til you learn the stuff you need to learn.
> 
> Some people might call that hokey but that's ok


Other people call it mentorship.


----------



## norajane

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> And to Lisa and any of the other bitter people posting, yes this would be cheating regardless of the gender of the person. *I have yet to see a thread like this on TAM -man or woman- where the majority said this kind of behavior was cool. *
> 
> There are lots of double standards on TAM- infidelity has a ton- but this isn't one of them.


I don't think it's the majority, but there were some posts telling this woman it wasn't a big deal that her now husband had been dating someone else during their relationship prior to marriage. She was even told to be happy because he's been a "model husband" for two whole months since their marriage.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ther-relationship-before-we-were-married.html

I'm not saying these are necessarily typical responses, nor that the posters in that thread are the same ones posting in this one (don't know). I'm just pointing out that thread as an example of a thread were some people are saying it's fine and dandy behavior.


----------



## Jellybeans

LongWalk said:


> And is it too late for honesty now?


Only the boyfriend can decide that but for me, it would be. From the ways it sounds, it does not appear she was the one who told him about it. To me it sounds like he found out some other way. And if that other way was that she was still in touch with the enemy, that that is not going to go over well.

She said he "just" found out. So he was a year+ not knowing.


----------



## larry.gray

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> Especially in this case since they didn't even have sex so there's no implied or assumed exclusivity. It's not that hard to ask. The good time would be after the first time of having sex. Maybe I'm different but people on this board seem to have problems with simple communication with the opposite sex.


The reason people don't ask is because they are making presumptions. They presume their own views on dating and sex are universal. They simply don't realize that this is something they should talk about.

That's exactly what I was suggesting is a great conversation to have with your older teen kids. Have these kinds of conversations before you get intimate with somebody.


----------



## jaharthur

norajane said:


> I don't think it's the majority, but there were some posts telling this woman it wasn't a big deal that her now husband had been dating someone else during their relationship prior to marriage. She was even told to be happy because he's been a "model husband" for two whole months since their marriage.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ther-relationship-before-we-were-married.html
> 
> I'm not saying these are necessarily typical responses, nor that the posters in that thread are the same ones posting in this one (don't know). I'm just pointing out that thread as an example of a thread were some people are saying it's fine and dandy behavior.


I read that thread. Other than one knucklehead, who was pretty much called a knucklehead, the overwhelming majority of posters agreed that the OP had ample reason to be upset by the two-timing of her now-husband.

Of course there are some knuckleheads in any group. But where's the thread suggesting in any way that on this issue any significant portion of members apply a double standard?


----------



## larry.gray

norajane said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ther-relationship-before-we-were-married.html
> 
> I'm not saying these are necessarily typical responses, nor that the posters in that thread are the same ones posting in this one (don't know). I'm just pointing out that thread as an example of a thread were some people are saying it's fine and dandy behavior.


Lets do some counting, then!

On that thread you linked, we have one person thinking it's find and dandy, and every other poster on that thread is calling him to task for it and disagreeing.

Here the counting will be harder because a lot of the thread is now loaded with people whining about a double standard. But I see more than one here arguing it's OK because they didn't agree to exclusivity. 

So as I see it, the double standard goes _against_ the whiners here and is actually 180° opposite what they claim.


----------



## happi_g_more2

larry.gray said:


> So as I see it, the double standard goes _against_ the whiners here and is actually 180° opposite what they claim.


You did not not just say the opposite of what she didnt say did you?


----------



## Nucking Futs

happi_g_more2 said:


> You did not not just say the opposite of what she didnt say did you?


I think it was actually the same as the opposite of the reverse of the inverse without actually being the opposite of the reverse of the inverse. Or is that backwards? :scratchhead:


----------



## samyeagar

-i^2


----------



## vellocet

JCD said:


> Lonnie, sorry about this. Most of this discussion isn't really about your situation any more.
> 
> At this point, we are just arguing with one another about morality.


Has nothing to do with morality. It has to do with the fact that if you think you want a relationship with someone, as she clearly indicated by saying she "wanted to do it right", then there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it.

Clearly to her bf, she chose the wrong way. Only thing she can do is give him his space, don't try to tell him she didn't do anything wrong, and stay away from trying to explain why she gave it up to a player jackass, but not him.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

lisab0105 said:


> Guy and girl meet on website. They go out on dates and have sex for about a month 1/2. No talk of exclusivity, but the conversation of seeing other people does not come up.
> 
> One morning she learns from seeing an empty box of condoms in the trash can that he is having sex with someone else. She is hurt as she didn't realize that he was seeing and much less having sex with anyone else. When questioned he says "We never agreed to be exclusive." She liked him and assumed that he really liked her, definitely wouldn't be sleeping with any one else.
> 
> So, does that mean he was in the wrong? He cheated even though there was no talk about exclusivity in the short time frame? Or is it okay because no one was being denied sex?


Why does it have to be one person is right and one person is wrong. This isn't a lawsuit with a plaintiff and defendant.

In your situation, the guy was right for living his life the way he saw fit and he never broke any agreement.

The woman was right for feeling hurt because HER PERCEPTION of their relationship was one thing and she found out reality was different. She's also right if she stays AND right if she leaves because those are her choices and her life.

If she leaves, the guy has to accept her decision, just like if she stays she has to accept what his decision was.

The biggest issue I see with what the OP did was having two different standards when it comes to sex. I'm not saying she's wrong for it, but that is something that will carry consequences. 

When she said to her BF, "I want to wait because I think we're special". She's telling him what her feelings about sex are. It's something special that you share with someone that you know is right for you. It's not something you jump into with total disregard.

But then with bad boy....it was something that is just for fun that you can do with disregard.

That is the problem. One attitude about sex isn't better than the other, but you need to have conviction and consistency when it comes to it. Her BF interpreted her based on her actions (TO HIM). He learned that her actions to him aren't consistent with who she is as a person.


----------



## vellocet

lisab0105 said:


> F'ck it...I totally edited my post because that bullsh*t you just said isn't worth getting banned over.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its real simple lisa, if the gender roles were reversed, for me and I'm sure a lot that are participating in this thread, it wouldn't matter.

I don't know what jacktards were apologizing for any of the guys that were in other threads with the same siutaiton as Lonnie here, but if I participated, my comments would be the same to them. Actually more harsh because its guys like that that give the rest of them a bad name.

So unless you can show someone in this thread treating a man who had done the same with kid gloves, then there are no double standards here. Maybe with the people in the thread to which you are referring, but none here.


----------



## LongWalk

Is Lonnie still checking in?


----------



## samyeagar

LongWalk said:


> Is Lonnie still checking in?


Lonnie has been checking in here at about the same time every night. She hasn't disappeared  A lot of people need to remember that not everyone can be on here as much as some others.


----------



## vellocet

larry.gray said:


> Either that or have the honesty to realize that if you think multi-dating that includes sex is OK, you should stick with other people that think it is OK too.
> 
> Pick one or the other.


Exactly.

My point was if someone thinks multidating is ok, then they should have no problem telling the other parties involved that they are seeing other people.


----------



## manticore

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> In this case there was no agreement on exclusivity therefore it's not cheating.


I so damn hate this contract mentality, as if now you have to make any person you date to read a document to make clear what is out of your tolerance range, like Sheldom (Big Bang Theory) says "the relationship agreement".

In these situations where people play with words the person who always lose is the one with stronger sense of morality and better intentions, in other words the best human being is the one who ends hurting.

My GF and I have had many fights as any normal couple in our more than 3 years relationship, and we have had some stupids break ups that both of us know will not last more than one day (and some of them were for really stupid reasons). But I let her know clearly that if in one of these stupid break ups she ended sleeping with someone else I was out of the picture, she was more reasonable about it, she told me that if I was the one who ended doing it she would cut my balls.


----------



## samyeagar

vellocet said:


> Exactly.
> 
> My point was if someone thinks multidating is ok, then they should have no problem telling the other parties involved that they are seeing other people.


But they often don't volunteer that information because they know a lot of people are not OK with it, and they fall into the 'It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" camp not realizing that doesn't really apply to dating and sex, just cookies.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

samyeagar said:


> But they often don't volunteer that information because they know a lot of people are not OK with it, and they fall into the 'It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" camp not realizing that doesn't really apply to dating and sex, just cookies.


Out of curiosity, would it make a difference to you if it was some initial dating but no sex? That is, coffee, drinks and a dinner or two that overlap before she dropped one?


----------



## vellocet

Tall Average Guy said:


> Out of curiosity, would it make a difference to you if it was some initial dating but no sex? That is, coffee, drinks and a dinner or two that overlap before she dropped one?


To me? No. Like I said, I don't like to waste my affections and consideration for a woman only for her to be getting it from another man at the same time. She can play someone else for a fool.


----------



## lovelygirl

vellocet said:


> To me? No. Like I said, I don't like to waste my affections and consideration for a woman only for her to be getting it from another man at the same time. She can play someone else for a fool.


Well as much as I agree with you, she wouldn't be getting sex. As TAG said, just dinner/hang outs/drinks.


----------



## Caribbean Man

LongWalk said:


> And is it too late for honesty now?


I know I'm going against the grain of the thread here, but somehow i don't think it's too late for her and her boyfriend.

She made a miscalculation in the past.
But I've seen much worse transgressions forgiven between lovers.

We all know that love can make all of us do really strange things.Sounds to me like they were both in love.

What she needs to do quickly is dump all of that " negotiating exclusivity" and all other such rubbish ideas from her head, own her part of the problem and talk to her boyfriend like a person who's seriously thinking of a lifetime of commitment.

I don't think the boyfriend is an unreasonable person , neither does she sound like an unreasonable person.

If they are both honest with each other from here onward, then there is plenty of hope for them in the future.


----------



## lovelygirl

Caribbean Man said:


> I
> We all know that love can make all of us do really strange things.*Sounds to me like they were both in love.*
> .


Who was in love?
When?

If you're referring to her and her BF, it's far away from love. At least with what she did back then.
Plus, she admitted it herself...she didn't think he was the one at the time of speaking.


----------



## Caribbean Man

lovelygirl said:


> Who was in love?
> When?
> 
> If you're referring to her and her BF, it's far away from love. At least with what she did back then.
> Plus, she admitted it herself...she didn't think he was the one at the time of speaking.


I mean at present.
They've both been involved a relationship and she referred to him as her soulmate.

That must mean something?


----------



## vellocet

lovelygirl said:


> Well as much as I agree with you, she wouldn't be getting sex. As TAG said, just dinner/hang outs/drinks.


Whether its sex, or spending money on her. She aint going to play me without losing me.


----------



## vellocet

Lonnie, looks like you post when you have time.

Can you answer this for me? Would you have felt comfortable telling your bf in the early stages that you were seeing another man? 

If not, why not? And did you prefer to keep the other man a secret from your bf? If so, why if you don't think you did anything wrong?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

vellocet said:


> To me? No. Like I said, I don't like to waste my affections and consideration for a woman only for her to be getting it from another man at the same time. She can play someone else for a fool.


Is that always playing you for a fool?

I know I multidated breifly in this manner. Coffee with one girl, dinner with my now wife, dinner with the other girl (with another couple), than drinks with my wife that made me realize that she was the far better choice to me.

Nothing sneaky, just me meeting a couple of girls around the same time that I did not really know but was interested enough in to want to get to know better.


----------



## lovelygirl

vellocet said:


> Whether its sex, or spending money on her. She aint going to play me without losing me.


It doesn't mean she would be playing you for a fool.
Sex is out of the equation. As TAG said, we're referring to plain coffee/drinks.

But it also depends on your / her definition of "dating".

We over here (in Albania) don't consider drinking coffee as "date". Taking this into account, I don't think it'd be important to tell my other guy that I had coffee with another one earlier today or during these days. 
Dumping me because I had coffee with another guy is a bit over the top. 
(Although I do respect your opinion and see where you come from. )


Anything beyond coffee like : night outs, drinks, cinema, dinner .. and more would be a deal breaker for me. 

What I want to add is also the frequency. If he's dating the two of us, but dates me more than her and sees her WAY more rarely, then I wouldn't put much thought on that. 
But if the frequency arises and we're equal to him, then I'd dump him or give him an ultimatum (even if we weren't exclusive YET).


----------



## LongWalk

Caribbean Man said:


> I know I'm going against the grain of the thread here, but somehow i don't think it's too late for her and her boyfriend.
> 
> She made a miscalculation in the past.
> But I've seen much worse transgressions forgiven between lovers.
> 
> We all know that love can make all of us do really strange things.Sounds to me like they were both in love.
> 
> What she needs to do quickly is dump all of that " negotiating exclusivity" and all other such rubbish ideas from her head, own her part of the problem and talk to her boyfriend like a person who's seriously thinking of a lifetime of commitment.
> 
> I don't think the boyfriend is an unreasonable person , neither does she sound like an unreasonable person.
> 
> If they are both honest with each other from here onward, then there is plenty of hope for them in the future.


:iagree:

I messaged her to suggest that she return to ask for help. She needs to approach him when he starts missing her. I wonder how many days need to pass before he calms down and begins to feel her absence.

Radical honest? Should she offer to tell him about every man she ever slept with?

Does she herself consider her past to be promiscuous? If so, she needs to tell him that.

I think it's very important that they talk before they have sex again. They need to discuss the situation and not rug sweep.


----------



## jaharthur

LongWalk said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I messaged her to suggest that she return to ask for help. She needs to approach him when he starts missing her. I wonder how many days need to pass before he calms down and begins to feel her absence.
> 
> Radical honest? Should she offer to tell him about every man she ever slept with?
> 
> Does she herself consider her past to be promiscuous? If so, she needs to tell him that.
> 
> I think it's very important that they talk before they have sex again. They need to discuss the situation and not rug sweep.


IF there is any hope, and I have my doubts, I agree that at this point she needs to let it all hang out. So yes, radical honesty. Perhaps the bf should do the same. 

I don't mean a detailed step-by-step recounting of every experience. However, given the bad boy fling, the bf's reaction, and this comment by her:



> In the past sometimes if i felt like it, i did, if that makes sense. I'm not that woman any more. I'm better and i want my guy to see that.


I think she's going to have to address her past and explain why it isn't representative of who she is today and why the bf can trust her. At this point partial truths aren't going to cut it in my opinion.


----------



## Thor

He probably sees this situation as him being the Nice Safe Stable man whom she selected as probable hubby material but doesn't really want to have sex with. Yet she was happy to have a concurrent fling with a Bad Boy type?

This sounds like manipulation to me. She was happy to have her fun, but she did not want to show her real self to the guy she wants to settle down with. She feared he would reject her, and so she hid her real self from him. She meters out sex in a way to keep him feeling safe with her.

Nice Guys and Bad Boys are for different things, apparently. There's guys you marry and there's guys you fvck.

Now he knows that she is only going to have plain sex with him. He wonders, with good cause, if she really finds him attractive or if she wants a Nice Stable Husband and he happens to be the stupid schmuck she is manipulating into it. He'll think she only wants him for the $, social image, chores, and dna he will provide for her.

If he is like most men, he wants a wife who is into him, who gets wild with him, who finds him the most desirable man she's known. He doesn't want to be someone she chooses for practical reasons.

If he were my son or my best friend, I'd tell him to run like his a$$ is on fire. Fair or not, it would be my advice.


----------



## RClawson

Caribbean Man said:


> Well let me give you my own experience.
> 
> Before I started a relationship with my wife I had been around lots of women.
> 
> But she and I were just friends long before we started , and she knew about me and the women, she was my confidante. Yup, she was the one whom I told all my dirty secrets, long before we were in a relationship.
> 
> When I started having feelings for her,I began to see her in a different light , but obviously , she rejected the idea of both of us being together.
> But I still had feelings for her.
> During that time I had the opportunity to have sex with two women, both of them she knew, one of them a real hottie and a childhood friend of hers.
> She invited me on a date to a theater production , and I ended up back by her place.
> She wanted sex , she began kissing, I stopped , to me , It just didn't feel right, because of how I felt for my wife , even though SHE HAD REJECTED ME, and said we could only be just friends.
> 
> I just slept on the couch and that girl left for work very early the next morning and left me in her apartment_ with an extra key_.
> During the day, I returned the key via her cousin, a good [ male] friend of mine.
> 
> I also rejected the other woman.
> 
> Anyways, I tried for a THIRD TIME to get my wife to say yes to a relationship with me, I knew she felt the same way I did , but didn't trust me , because of my past.
> Guess what she asked me?
> 
> "_CM, did you have sex with that same girl?_" [ the hottie , her childhood friend.]
> I swore to her nothing happened , and told her that night's events.
> She finally decided to give us a chance.
> 
> That was more twenty one years ago.
> 
> Imagine if I had decided that because we hadn't any " exclusivity " negotiations , I was free to fcuk around a bit until she made up her mind. Funny thing was , she also had two guys who were showing serious interests in her.
> We never had to have any " exclusivity " discussions or negotiations.
> It was understood.
> 
> If I professed to be interested in a relationship with her and respected her, then how could i have sex with her friend behind her back?
> 
> I personally feel that if one has to negotiate exclusivity to the letter of the law in a relationship, that relationship is doomed to fail.
> 
> Like I said before , it begins with honesty with oneself.


CB,

thanks for sharing this. This thread has been a big trigger for me. I know my situation varies a bit but the bottom line has a similar theme. I wish my W would have had the strength to tell me that the guy she slept with (putting it very mildly) was my good friend. I know she had to believe that was an important detail. 

This is why I feel the OP's guy will not come back to her. He is in disbelief, he is questioning himself and no doubt second guessing Lonnie who he thought he knew. It will be extremely difficult to overcome. 

If I was given the knowledge I should have been given I would have walked.


----------



## U.E. McGill

I remember vividly going down the path to intimacy with my wife. There were several doors along the way to cross. While I pushed for sex early, she held out for exclusivity. That's the dance. I met her criteria, she mine. It was spelled out clearly that there were only two people on this race. 

This guy is probably reeling because he was thinking the same thing. "Hey I played by the rules!" Only to find out there was two sets of rules. 

At 9 months I doubt this is worth saving.


----------



## Decorum

U.E. McGill said:


> While I pushed for sex early, she held out for exclusivity. That's the dance. I met her criteria, she mine. It was spelled out clearly that there were only two people on this race.
> 
> This guy is probably reeling because he was thinking the same thing. "Hey I played by the rules!" Only to find out there was two sets of rules.
> 
> .


This is the big picture I think.


----------



## DoktorFun

Thor said:


> *He probably sees this situation as him being the Nice Safe Stable man whom she selected as probable hubby material but doesn't really want to have sex with. Yet she was happy to have a concurrent fling with a Bad Boy type?
> 
> This sounds like manipulation to me. She was happy to have her fun, but she did not want to show her real self to the guy she wants to settle down with. She feared he would reject her, and so she hid her real self from him. She meters out sex in a way to keep him feeling safe with her.
> 
> Nice Guys and Bad Boys are for different things, apparently. There's guys you marry and there's guys you fvck.
> 
> Now he knows that she is only going to have plain sex with him. He wonders, with good cause, if she really finds him attractive or if she wants a Nice Stable Husband and he happens to be the stupid schmuck she is manipulating into it. He'll think she only wants him for the $, social image, chores, and dna he will provide for her.
> 
> If he is like most men, he wants a wife who is into him, who gets wild with him, who finds him the most desirable man she's known. He doesn't want to be someone she chooses for practical reasons.
> 
> If he were my son or my best friend, I'd tell him to run like his a$$ is on fire. Fair or not, it would be my advice.*


*True! ^* He deserve better!

Great post, Thor! :iagree:


----------



## Mr The Other

To balance this out, worse things than this will happen in a relationship. He is getting upset about something that many people could accept on the surface of it. We probably was a bit out of order, but I have done worse.


----------



## NextTimeAround

U.E. McGill said:


> I remember vividly going down the path to intimacy with my wife. There were several doors along the way to cross. While I pushed for sex early, she held out for exclusivity. That's the dance. I met her criteria, she mine. It was spelled out clearly that there were only two people on this race.
> 
> *This guy is probably reeling because he was thinking the same thing. "Hey I played by the rules!" Only to find out there was two sets of rules. *
> 
> At 9 months I doubt this is worth saving.


This is exactly how I felt as well. Even at a time when I wasn't working due to getting chemotherapy, I showed that I was good sport, always paid for my own transportation and paid for some of the dates. Despite wanting me to spend the weekends at his place, he would neglect picking up coffee and milk at the very least........

and then I find all these receipts and credit card statements that showed just how willing he was to underwrite the _outings _(of course, they were just friend so they didn't go on dates) and his excuse......... I care about you that's why it meant so much to me that you pay your own way. 

I don't care about my just a friend ex, therefore, it's easier to pay when we go out......

Sound familiar? I see this scenario as the mirror image for women.

Believe me after our talk, he changed completely (and paid me back for some things). He had to....

And imagine if I had found out all that stuff from her first...... that would have been even worse.....


----------



## samyeagar

Mr The Other said:


> To balance this out, worse things than this will happen in a relationship. *He is getting upset about something that many people could accept on the surface of it*. We probably was a bit out of order, but I have done worse.


And this is one of the reasons, not this particular one necessarily, but that acceptance of things early on that lead to failure later on.

This in particular is one of those things that many omen have heard the message that this behavior is alright. The 'you can have anything' crowd's message. Many men have bought into it thinking that's how it should be and they should just suck it up. Many do suck it up on the surface, but it leaves cracks underneath that eventually erode the foundation of the relationship.


----------



## Jellybeans

happi_g_more2 said:


> You did not not just say the opposite of what she didnt say did you?





Nucking Futs said:


> I think it was actually the same as the opposite of the reverse of the inverse without actually being the opposite of the reverse of the inverse. Or is that backwards? :scratchhead:


:rofl: It's like Yoda!


----------



## JCD

DoktorFun said:


> *True! ^* He deserve better!
> 
> Great post, Thor! :iagree:


Excuse me. She hasn't said word ONE about their sex life or how passionate she feels about her BF...nor should she.

So guys, how about you frame this as 'this is a worry your BF will have and you better pull out all the stops if you want to convince him' instead of framing her as a cold fish money grubbing person of low character with no evidence except projection.

For one thing it is not gracious and for another, it's insulting.

Just saying.


----------



## RClawson

DoktorFun said:


> *True! ^* He deserve better!
> 
> Great post, Thor! :iagree:


What Thor wrote is the sad truth.


----------



## RClawson

JCD said:


> Excuse me. She hasn't said word ONE about their sex life or how passionate she feels about her BF...nor should she.
> 
> So guys, how about you frame this as 'this is a worry your BF will have and you better pull out all the stops if you want to convince him' instead of framing her as a cold fish money grubbing person of low character with no evidence except projection.
> 
> For one thing it is not gracious and for another, it's insulting.
> 
> Just saying.


Interesting I thought it was a case of making a calculated decision, that was an extremely poor choice, and reaping what you sow.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5

norajane said:


> I don't think it's the majority, but there were some posts telling this woman it wasn't a big deal that her now husband had been dating someone else during their relationship prior to marriage. She was even told to be happy because he's been a "model husband" for two whole months since their marriage.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ther-relationship-before-we-were-married.html
> 
> I'm not saying these are necessarily typical responses, nor that the posters in that thread are the same ones posting in this one (don't know). I'm just pointing out that thread as an example of a thread were some people are saying it's fine and dandy behavior.


In my opinion, the people that said it was okay are idiots, just as the people who are saying what the OP in this thread is okay. Be honest, be respectful regardless of your gender...always.


----------



## theroad

happi_g_more2 said:


> I still dont really see this as cheating. I do see it as a young woman making a really bad choice based on today's loose moral culture. Now she has to deal with the repercussions. What she should do is not date for a while, then when she is ready, look for someone with no previous to this cluster F she created


Easy to say that when it is not your girl friend that is banging an OM.


----------



## Lordhavok

RClawson said:


> Interesting I thought it was a case of making a calculated decision, that was an extremely poor choice, and reaping what you sow.


I was thinking that the crux of the issue here was "accountability"


----------



## theroad

bandit.45 said:


> But its not really infidelity...
> 
> Just stupidity and horniness...


No it is infidelity. Just ask any guy that had his GF bang another guy while her was dating her.


----------



## theroad

LonnieHere said:


> Ok maybe counselling would be good. I'll try and bring that up.
> 
> You know, it's pretty cruel to call him a doormat like Tahoma did. He's not. He's just not. He has his act together in life and is doing very well in a competitive part of the financial markets sector. He runs a group that has rocked for the past couple of years. He's also plenty attractive - he just doesn't play off his looks or career. That's more stuff about him i respect. I don't want to say any more than that.
> 
> Also, lots of people keep bringing up the timing thing. So here is the deal and im not going to talk about it again. I met my boyfriend. We started seeing each other. A week or so before that i met the jerk, nothing happened, we met at a party. He got my number. He called me i think a week or so later and we got together. We got intimate the second time we got together. We were intimate a few times and it ended about two weeks after we started. During that time, yes, i went out with my guy. Yes, during that time i didn't get intimate with my guy. We got intimate a couple of months after we started dating. So that's the time line thing.


Thank you for sharing the timeline. Though if I was your BF I would be in a world of hurt learning that timeline.

It would not be something I would be able to get past all that fast.


----------



## Thor

JCD said:


> Excuse me. She hasn't said word ONE about their sex life or how passionate she feels about her BF...nor should she.
> 
> So guys, how about you frame this as 'this is a worry your BF will have and you better pull out all the stops if you want to convince him' instead of framing her as a cold fish money grubbing person of low character with no evidence except projection.
> 
> For one thing it is not gracious and for another, it's insulting.
> 
> Just saying.


I wrote how it looks to a man. This happened to me, too. And it is exactly how it looks from this side of the room. Hot sex with lots of other men is what she wants until she wants to have a family. Then she wants some safe guy who she knows won't go AWOL on her. How does she know this? She tests him by making him wait on sex. She only gives him plain sex. This test will reveal if he is willing to put up with little sex and not very hot sex. Because she doesn't plan on having frequent or hot sex with him, because she doesn't find him all that attractive, at least not in a hot way like the Bad Boys.

She does find his ability to be a stable provider attractive. She does find it attractive to believe he is not going to cheat on her. He's smart and he will have good dna for making smart successful kids.

From this side of things it is an insult to be manipulated and used, all the while she is pretending to be in love like she never was before. She pretends to really like sex with him, which he believes at the time.

He wishes the sex were better and more frequent, but it is enough not to run away, and he finds everything else about her great. So he compromises. He accepts she is not the sexpot he wants, but nobody is _perfect_. And then one day he finds out she *is* the sexpot, but not with him! She just isn't that into sex *with him*, he finds out she was with other men.

Crushing.

And, a good predictor of an unhappy marriage and a good predictor of infidelity down the road. I would say very different things if the bad boy flings were well in her past and she had a track record of new behavior.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> In this case there was no agreement on exclusivity therefore it's not cheating.


There are two point of views to this. The OP and the BF.

The OP uses words like "technically" so even she knows the relationship didn't have a STATED agreement on exclusivity, but she could also see where her BF would be under the impression that they were.

The BF had the perception that the OP was more reserved with whom she would have sex with. "Not just ANYONE gets to have sex with her because it's something you wait for because it's special." This was the picture she painted for him. She implied exclusivity with her actions and words. He was rightly to assume, based on her actions with him, that she wasn't having sex with anyone else. 

And there in lies the problem.

To her and if this was in a courtroom. She didn't cheat on him.
To him...she did

Courtrooms and matters of love and the heart don't go together though.


----------



## lovelygirl

Thor said:


> Because she doesn't plan on having frequent or hot sex with him, because she doesn't find him all that attractive, at least not in a hot way like the Bad Boys.
> 
> She does find his ability to be a stable provider attractive. She does find it attractive to believe he is not going to cheat on her. He's smart and he will have good dna for making smart successful kids.
> 
> From this side of things it is an insult to be manipulated and used, all the while she is pretending to be in love like she never was before. She pretends to really like sex with him, which he believes at the time.
> .


That's what I was thinking. From her posts, she doesn't sound passionately in love with him and we don't know if she gave him the same hot sex that she gave to the other guy. 

From her posts I get the impression that she wants and respect him because, like you said, he's a good provider in many ways. 
But that's it. 

If the bad boy didn't turn out to be a womanizer, I'm not sure if she would have chosen her now-BF.


----------



## jaharthur

Thor said:


> I wrote how it looks to a man. This happened to me, too. And it is exactly how it looks from this side of the room. Hot sex with lots of other men is what she wants until she wants to have a family. Then she wants some safe guy who she knows won't go AWOL on her. How does she know this? She tests him by making him wait on sex. She only gives him plain sex. This test will reveal if he is willing to put up with little sex and not very hot sex. Because she doesn't plan on having frequent or hot sex with him, because she doesn't find him all that attractive, at least not in a hot way like the Bad Boys.
> 
> She does find his ability to be a stable provider attractive. She does find it attractive to believe he is not going to cheat on her. He's smart and he will have good dna for making smart successful kids.
> 
> From this side of things it is an insult to be manipulated and used, all the while she is pretending to be in love like she never was before. She pretends to really like sex with him, which he believes at the time.
> 
> He wishes the sex were better and more frequent, but it is enough not to run away, and he finds everything else about her great. So he compromises. He accepts she is not the sexpot he wants, but nobody is _perfect_. And then one day he finds out she *is* the sexpot, but not with him! She just isn't that into sex *with him*, he finds out she was with other men.
> 
> Crushing.
> 
> And, a good predictor of an unhappy marriage and a good predictor of infidelity down the road. I would say very different things if the bad boy flings were well in her past and she had a track record of new behavior.


While I agree that the bf has good reason to be hurt and distrustful, I don't see that we have enough facts to reach this conclusion definitively.

It could be as simple as the OP realizing the bf is an awesome catch and that she's been incredibly stupid in her prior choices. It could be that she was insecure and trying to get comfort through sex. We just don't know enough about her.

So while I have a pretty hard attitude as to what she did to the bf, I'm not willing to assume that she's a manipulating b*tch settling for the "safe guy" for security and not really being physically attracted to him. That's possible, but not a certainty.

Then again, she may be trickle-truthing us. I just can't tell and I don't make assumptions.


----------



## justtryin

Thor said:


> I wrote how it looks to a man. This happened to me, too. And it is exactly how it looks from this side of the room. Hot sex with lots of other men is what she wants until she wants to have a family. Then she wants some safe guy who she knows won't go AWOL on her. How does she know this? She tests him by making him wait on sex. She only gives him plain sex. This test will reveal if he is willing to put up with little sex and not very hot sex. Because she doesn't plan on having frequent or hot sex with him, because she doesn't find him all that attractive, at least not in a hot way like the Bad Boys.
> 
> She does find his ability to be a stable provider attractive. She does find it attractive to believe he is not going to cheat on her. He's smart and he will have good dna for making smart successful kids.
> 
> From this side of things it is an insult to be manipulated and used, all the while she is pretending to be in love like she never was before. She pretends to really like sex with him, which he believes at the time.
> 
> He wishes the sex were better and more frequent, but it is enough not to run away, and he finds everything else about her great. So he compromises. He accepts she is not the sexpot he wants, but nobody is _perfect_. And then one day he finds out she *is* the sexpot, but not with him! She just isn't that into sex *with him*, he finds out she was with other men.
> 
> Crushing.
> 
> And, a good predictor of an unhappy marriage and a good predictor of infidelity down the road. I would say very different things if the bad boy flings were well in her past and she had a track record of new behavior.


BINGO.

Every man wants to know that HE is the most desirable to his woman - especially sexually. Forget good marriage material, this is what he really wants to be for you. HE wants to be the guy you just HAD to have sexually, you couldn't help yourself. EVERY man wants to be this above all else. Without that, like Thor says, all kinds of problems and misbehaviors pop up down the road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

jaharthur said:


> It could be as simple as the OP realizing the bf is an awesome catch and that she's been incredibly stupid in her prior choices. It could be that she was insecure and trying to get comfort through sex. We just don't know enough about her.
> 
> So while I have a pretty hard attitude as to what she did to the bf, I'm not willing to assume that she's a manipulating b*tch settling for the "safe guy" for security and not really being physically attracted to him. That's possible, but not a certainty.


I don't know either what the truth is in her heart. But what I wrote is how it would _feel_ to find out what she did. Assuming just the facts as she has presented them, it would be difficult to come to a different conclusion at this moment if I were her BF.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

Dad&Hubby said:


> There are two point of views to this. The OP and the BF.
> 
> The OP uses words like "technically" so even she knows the relationship didn't have a STATED agreement on exclusivity, but she could also see where her BF would be under the impression that they were.
> 
> The BF had the perception that the OP was more reserved with whom she would have sex with. "Not just ANYONE gets to have sex with her because it's something you wait for because it's special." This was the picture she painted for him. She implied exclusivity with her actions and words. He was rightly to assume, based on her actions with him, that she wasn't having sex with anyone else.
> 
> And there in lies the problem.
> 
> To her and if this was in a courtroom. She didn't cheat on him.
> To him...she did
> 
> Courtrooms and matters of love and the heart don't go together though.


This seems like a battle of two different value systems. The BF probably places sex as the number one priority while the OP places it lower and values more things like personality when judging a possible partner. So to her the sex with the other guy was meaningless without any emotional attachment. With the BF it was attachment first then sex because she values other things more over sex. This is quite like when people disagree which one is worse, an EA or a PA. There are two schools on this and neither one can say they are definitely right.


----------



## bandit.45

theroad said:


> No it is infidelity. Just ask any guy that had his GF bang another guy while her was dating her.


They're not married. They're probably two young kids who's brains haven't even finished developing yet.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Maybe I missed it, but has Lonnie said with more detail how her bf found about the womaniser.

As I mentioned, of all the things that I know about that other relationship, if I had learned any of those details directly from her, I would have been devestated.


----------



## John Lee

justtryin said:


> BINGO.
> 
> Every man wants to know that HE is the most desirable to his woman - especially sexually. Forget good marriage material, this is what he really wants to be for you. HE wants to be the guy you just HAD to have sexually, you couldn't help yourself. EVERY man wants to be this above all else. Without that, like Thor says, all kinds of problems and misbehaviors pop up down the road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm going to throw something into the works here that may not be a comment on the OP's situation but just more generally: what if that's not true? I'm a man, I want this, and I understand why all men want it, but what if you don't get it? I can see why a woman shouldn't _reveal_ to a man that he's not the best lover she ever had, but the fact is, it's just going to be the case sometimes. Is that a dealbreaker for any marriage? Should people only get married to the best sexual partner they've ever had? Sometimes the same things that make someone an especially hot sexual partner make them terrible marriage material, and that's true with women equally, I think. I can think of at least one great lay who was great precisely because she was a little unhinged. 

I can see why the OP's boyfriend was upset by this particular situation. Whether it's "infidelity" seems like a grey area that depends on both of their understandings of their relationship when it happened. I can't say I'm much of a fan of non-exclusive dating either. But more generally, aren't we being a little fragile about this as guys? Can you really not marry someone if you're only the second best sex they've ever had? Not that I'd want to know if I was, but hypothetically.


----------



## norajane

Just because she wanted to have sex with the other guy does not mean that he was the best lover she ever had. That guy could have easily been the worst lover she ever had.

Just because a woman takes her time to get to know a guy and develop an emotional relationship with him before having sex, does not mean that he is a terrible lover or second best or anything of the kind. He could very easily be the best lover she ever had, which is why she might want to stay with him instead of dumping him after a roll in the hay or two.

The _assumption _that, unless she jumps your bones instantly, that you would not be the best lover she ever had is entirely self-defeating and not based on anything except insecurity. Speed into bed does not equal any kind of skills or true intimacy or exploration. 

Is every woman that you had sex with right away the best lover you ever had? I am doubtful.


----------



## vellocet

Tall Average Guy said:


> Is that always playing you for a fool?


To me it is. That is unless she makes it known upfront that she is also seeing others. That way I have an informed choice in the matter.


----------



## Nucking Futs

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> This seems like a battle of two different value systems. The BF probably places sex as the number one priority while the OP places it lower and values more things like personality when judging a possible partner. So to her the sex with the other guy was meaningless without any emotional attachment. With the BF it was attachment first then sex because she values other things more over sex. This is quite like when people disagree which one is worse, an EA or a PA. There are two schools on this and neither one can say they are definitely right.


I don't think I would call it a value system in OPs case since she displayed both at the same time, one of waiting and valuing sex to her bf and being fast and loose with the other guy.


----------



## vellocet

lovelygirl said:


> It doesn't mean she would be playing you for a fool.
> Sex is out of the equation. As TAG said, we're referring to plain coffee/drinks.
> 
> But it also depends on your / her definition of "dating".
> 
> We over here (in Albania) don't consider drinking coffee as "date". Taking this into account, I don't think it'd be important to tell my other guy that I had coffee with another one earlier today or during these days.
> Dumping me because I had coffee with another guy is a bit over the top.


To you it is. To me its not.
If I'm giving her my consideration and she wants to see where it might also go with another guy, no thanks.

And if she does, then she can let me know up front.




> Anything beyond coffee like : night outs, drinks, cinema, dinner .. and more would be a deal breaker for me.


What is the real difference? Any one of them is an attempt to see where things lead with someone else.

Some people don't have a problem with the arrangement of multidating, some do. For me, it just simply is a turnoff to know that someone I'm seeing is considering someone else and seeing where it will lead.


----------



## vellocet

bandit.45 said:


> They're not married. They're probably two young kids who's brains haven't even finished developing yet.


I'd be the same way in this adult life. If I am seeing someone with the intent of building a relationship, and I cook dinner for her one night, and the next night she goes out and bangs another guy, sorry, but it just wouldn't sit well with me. Let the other guy cook her dinner....if he will.


----------



## jaharthur

bandit.45 said:


> They're not married. They're probably two young kids who's brains haven't even finished developing yet.


I've never understood why being young--at least after age 20-- gets somebody a pass on being honest, forthright, and trustworthy.


----------



## LongWalk

theroad said:


> No it is infidelity. Just ask any guy that had his GF bang another guy while her was dating her.


It is not exactly infidelity. Depends on what she said to him. Did he ask her if she was seeing anyone else? If she said no, they she was lying and it was implicitly a form of cheating.

Is the OP a terrible person without integrity? That's not the sense I got but she posted relatively little.

Could it be that she had more sex partners than she felt comfortable with and was thinking more about an LTR to start a family? Was the other guy an impulse that was the end of a phase of her life?

Is she checking in anymore?


----------



## justtryin

John Lee said:


> I'm going to throw something into the works here that may not be a comment on the OP's situation but just more generally: what if that's not true? I'm a man, I want this, and I understand why all men want it, but what if you don't get it? I can see why a woman shouldn't _reveal_ to a man that he's not the best lover she ever had, but the fact is, it's just going to be the case sometimes. Is that a dealbreaker for any marriage? Should people only get married to the best sexual partner they've ever had? Sometimes the same things that make someone an especially hot sexual partner make them terrible marriage material, and that's true with women equally, I think. I can think of at least one great lay who was great precisely because she was a little unhinged.
> 
> I can see why the OP's boyfriend was upset by this particular situation. Whether it's "infidelity" seems like a grey area that depends on both of their understandings of their relationship when it happened. I can't say I'm much of a fan of non-exclusive dating either. But more generally, aren't we being a little fragile about this as guys? Can you really not marry someone if you're only the second best sex they've ever had? Not that I'd want to know if I was, but hypothetically.


I hear what your saying john, but that's not what I was saying. I was talking about feelings of desire/attraction, not how good of a lover or good in the sack someone is or isn't. That's a separate issue and I agree it's not nearly as important.


Btw if this thread was a troll - who cares. It's fascinating regardless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

jaharthur said:


> I've never understood why being young--at least after age 20-- gets somebody a pass on being honest, forthright, and trustworthy.


It doesn't. But it does affect impulsivity, not thinking things through, not thinking about ramification of ones actions. 

OP was thinking with her vayjay, not her brain, when she was sleeping with one guy and not the other. She thought she could get away with it and her BF would never have known. 

I still contend she had plans for her BF right from the start, knowing that he was the long haul choice. But then OM was there too... the bad boy... who she wanted to have some fun with before settling down to a life of routine with the BF.


----------



## lovelygirl

vellocet said:


> To you it is. To me its not.
> If I'm giving her my consideration and she wants to see where it might also go with another guy, no thanks.
> 
> And if she does, then she can let me know up front.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the real difference? Any one of them is an attempt to see where things lead with someone else.
> 
> Some people don't have a problem with the arrangement of multidating, some do. For me, it just simply is a turnoff to know that someone I'm seeing is considering someone else and seeing where it will lead.


I didn't say I'm pro multidating. Let's make it clear.
I was just trying to define "dating".


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

I think one thing is being overlooked in here. Maybe the other guy was more bold sexually thus making the first move while the BF was more passive and did not make a move on her during that time. Result being the other guy got laid and the BF did not. Many women are still "old fashioned" and expect men to make the first move. In other words it's not always up to the woman if there is sex.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

LonnieHere said:


> OK so to answer some of your questions.
> 
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right. The other guy just sort of happened.
> 
> They know each other cause they're in the same industry and my guy thinks the other guy is unethical in business and in life. He also i guess has a rep for being kind of a womanizer. I thought maybe he'd be diferent but he wasn't as i found out. Sucks.


"women love bad boy's" once again....

You have to let your boyfriend go, this damage is not repairable.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

LonnieHere said:


> I didn't hear from him this morning so i called him and we agreed to get together for lunch and discuss things. I wasn't in the mood to go back to work after that so i came home. I've skimmed most of the responses cause i haven't had time to read each one but i will
> 
> Anyway, lunch was really awkward and there were alot of like really uncomfortable silences. When we did talk it was sort of worse. He feels crappy that i did a guy he hates. That led to him saying what was i thinking if i thought that guy was cool and other stuff.
> 
> I told him it was a mistake and that it didn't mean anything. And that is absolutely true - it didn't it was just physical. He wanted to know how quickly the other guy "got there" and i sort of skirted the issue cause i didn't want to hurt him. So he figured the other guy and i were quick off the mark. And then i got what i knew was coming. He asked why i made him wait and all i could say was that i thought we were special together and wanted to start our relationship on a solid basis. To say he didn't see it that way is an understatement. He said we dated and wined and dined and he had to wait while the unspecial guy got sex right away. He called me a deceitful so and so who got f-ed by a piece of crap. He got kind of quiet after that and then said he had to get back to work. I said if we can talk some morelater and he said like whatever.
> 
> The truth is i never wanted to hurt him but know i did. I just really want to make this right and make it up to him


I really am pissed of by this behavior of you, that seems to happen often enough with women. Terrible, terrible to do to a guy.

At least you could own the problem, because your wording indicates you do not get it.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't think I would call it a value system in OPs case since she displayed both at the same time, one of waiting and valuing sex to her bf and being fast and loose with the other guy.


She is still displaying only one. Nowhere did it say she 'valued sex to her BF' if it's down on her list of priorities. It's just one of the hard truths of life that some people don't value sex as much others.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

LonnieHere said:


> Jeesh everyone!! Blondielocks just said maybe most guys expect a blowjob at the end of the first date. Well, my guy DID NOT! I really respected him for that cause most previous guys did expect.
> 
> (Also, the jerk really was not all that - kind of far from it actually. So it's not like i was madly in lust with him.)
> 
> So anyway, my guy was, is, and will forever be, special. *But i get it completely that he doesn't feel all that special cause i was quick with the jerk and not him.* So if anybody has constructive ideas on how to deal with that, i really am all ears! Thanks


:scratchhead:

The idea alone that this is about being quick with one and slow with the other...



I cannot say what I think of you because I get banned....


----------



## Nucking Futs

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I think one thing is being overlooked in here. Maybe the other guy was more bold sexually thus making the first move while the BF was more passive and did not make a move on her during that time. Result being the other guy got laid and the BF did not. Many women are still "old fashioned" and expect men to make the first move. In other words it's not always up to the woman if there is sex.


Well, it's a good argument to take, but the op hasn't posted anything to suggest that. She did post this:



LonnieHere said:


> OK so to answer some of your questions.
> 
> I met both of them at about the same time. We were going out for about a month I guess when I saw the other guy. And yes, seeing means being intimate. *I hadn't yet been intimate with my now guy because i really wanted to do it right.* The other guy just sort of happened.


Which, while not stating it outright, indicates that she was holding her bf off.



MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> She is still displaying only one. Nowhere did it say she 'valued sex to her BF' if it's down on her list of priorities. It's just one of the hard truths of life that some people don't value sex as much others.


I didn't say she valued sex to her bf, I said she was displaying that. My point was that it's not a value to her, it's a value to him. She was portraying it as a value to her bf while showing the om her real values.

Bottom line she deceived her boyfriend and he now knows her real values and personality were hidden from him. He didn't fall in love with her, he fell in love with the woman she was pretending to be.


----------



## lovelygirl

I'm a woman myself and I still don't understand what "I wanted to do it right" means in your case, Lonnie.

You wanted to behave like a saint by not giving sex to your BF but at the time of speaking you were so easy to give it to the jerk right away?

How is THAT right?!


----------



## F-102

Lonnie, when you said to your BF that "it meant nothing" with the jerk, but you waited to have sex with him because you wanted to "do it right", okay, I could give the benefit of the doubt and say that you wanted to make sure that your BF was "the one" and not give it up quickly to him, only to have it turn out like "all the others", and true, you may not have been exclusive at the time.

BUT...

When your BF heard you give him the "meant nothing/do it right" explanation, what he heard was:

"I respect you and fell in love with you because you didn't pressure me to have sex on the first date, like all the other jerks. Therefore , I felt "safe" with you. I knew that you wouldn't pressure me for sex, I knew that I wouldn't have to "put out", because you're sensitive, caring, and a really nice guy. Again, you are "SAFE".
But when I meet someone at a party, or maybe on a GNO or even in a grocery store, and he looks dangerous and exciting, with rugged manly good looks and he treats me like trash like a man like that would be expected to, well then, I will let him get me in bed at the drop of a hat because he is, what do we call a guy like that? Oh yeah, a "REAL MAN".
This doesn't mean that I don't respect you (well, maybe not TOTALLY, as I won't be giving you what I know you want), but you are the guy that I will brag to all my GFs about, the one that I will show off at social gatherings, and you will make a great husband and father for me, but deep down, I will NEVER find you as sexually attractive as the "REAL MAN" that the jerk is, but I will still stay with you and put on the act of being devoted to you, because I don't want to lose you, because after all, you are "SAFE".

Again, this may not be what you meant, but it is WHAT HE HEARD.


----------



## samyeagar

F-102 said:


> Lonnie, when you said to your BF that "it meant nothing" with the jerk, but you waited to have sex with him because you wanted to "do it right", okay, I could give the benefit of the doubt and say that you wanted to make sure that your BF was "the one" and not give it up quickly to him, only to have it turn out like "all the others", and true, you may not have been exclusive at the time.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> When your BF heard you give him the "meant nothing/do it right" explanation, what he heard was:
> 
> "I respect you and fell in love with you because you didn't pressure me to have sex on the first date, like all the other jerks. Therefore , I felt "safe" with you. I knew that you wouldn't pressure me for sex, I knew that I wouldn't have to "put out", because you're sensitive, caring, and a really nice guy. Again, you are "SAFE".
> But when I meet someone at a party, or maybe on a GNO or even in a grocery store, and he looks dangerous and exciting, with rugged manly good looks and he treats me like trash like a man like that would be expected to, well then, I will let him get me in bed at the drop of a hat because he is, what do we call a guy like that? Oh yeah, a "REAL MAN".
> This doesn't mean that I don't respect you (well, maybe not TOTALLY, as I won't be giving you what I know you want), but you are the guy that I will brag to all my GFs about, the one that I will show off at social gatherings, and you will make a great husband and father for me, but deep down, I will NEVER find you as sexually attractive as the "REAL MAN" that the jerk is, but I will still stay with you and put on the act of being devoted to you, because I don't want to lose you, because after all, you are "SAFE".


How exactly does one reconcile "It meant nothing" with him, yet the exact same thing "Is special" with you? It's kind of tough to retroactively place a value on something that has already been assigned no value.


----------



## jaharthur

*Re: Re: My boyfriend found out about a past guy who he hates*



MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I think one thing is being overlooked in here. Maybe the other guy was more bold sexually thus making the first move while the BF was more passive and did not make a move on her during that time. Result being the other guy got laid and the BF did not. Many women are still "old fashioned" and expect men to make the first move. In other words it's not always up to the woman if there is sex.


Not up to the woman? She is unable to say no to anybody who says "let's [email protected]"? Yeah, that's just what a guy interested in a relationship wants to hear.


----------



## RClawson

My RJ brethren are all over this thread.


----------



## DoktorFun

See_Listen_Love said:


> "women love bad boy's" once again....
> 
> You have to let your boyfriend go, this damage is not repairable.



Ding, Ding! Winner, Winner! :smthumbup:

:iagree:


----------



## samyeagar

RClawson said:


> My RJ brethren are all over this thread.


Yep...united we are 

A little while back, a couple months or so, I found out my STBW, after everything her ex had put er through, still went back to him for sex and her rationalization to help me understand and feel better about it...exact words...."I was using him...it meant nothing."


----------



## Caribbean Man

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> She is still displaying only one. Nowhere did it say she 'valued sex to her BF' if it's down on her list of priorities. It's just one of the hard truths of life that some people don't value sex as much others.


So then,

Why do people who place little value on sex always try to settle down with people who place high value on sex , then blame them , and call them
" _insecure_" later on in the relationship,when the sh!t hits the fan?

If they change their views on sex , then I can understand.

Bit what sense does it make maintaining such views , and trying to force it down the throat of someone who has different views?

Why not simply settle down with someone with the same views on sex? 
In other words, if sex isn't of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner places a " higher value" on sex than you?


----------



## samyeagar

Caribbean Man said:


> So then,
> 
> Why do people who place little value on sex always try to settle down with people who place high value on sex , then blame them , and call them " _insecure_" when the sh!t hits the fan?
> 
> If they change their views on sex , then I can understand.
> 
> Bit what sense does it make maintaining such views , and trying to force it down the throat of someone who has different views?
> 
> Why not simply settle down with someone with the same views on sex?
> In other words, if sex isn't of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner a " higher value" on sex than you?


Often times a persons views on sex go hand in hand with other things they place value on, and those things are desirable to other people. I think this somewhat plays into the nice guy thing.


----------



## Thunder7

RClawson said:


> My RJ brethren are all over this thread.


I have deftly avoided it, not wanting to trigger anything, even though the scenario is something I have never experienced.....As far as I know.......Damn!! Sucked in.


----------



## Caribbean Man

But I don't really think the issue is retroactive jealousy as much as it is one of honesty and compatibility.


----------



## Thunder7

Caribbean Man said:


> But I don't really think the issue is retroactive jealousy as much as it is one of honesty and compatibility.


You're right, it's not. But I think RJ goes hand in hand with honesty. Honesty, or a lack thereof, is a trigger for RJ. Like I said, I've never been in the position described by the OP. But, I can empathize to a point where it will start to trigger, if I'm not careful.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Here is the brute reality displayed of the female instinct to have a provider for housing and food, a safe environment to grow children, and a real bad boy for gathering his seed to get the genes for these same children, so their 'bad boy' blood has the highest chances of further spreading her own genes.....

Thank God there are women who are not like that....


----------



## Mario Kempes

samyeagar said:


> Yep...united we are
> 
> A little while back, a couple months or so, I found out my *STBW*, after everything her ex had put er through, still went back to him for sex and her rationalization to help me understand and feel better about it...exact words...."I was using him...it meant nothing."


Sam, am I reading this correctly?

She's your *S*oon *T*o *B*e *W*ife... You're gonna marry her after what she did...............? :scratchhead:


----------



## samyeagar

Mario Kempes said:


> Sam, am I reading this correctly?
> 
> She's your *S*oon *T*o *B*e *W*ife... You're gonna marry her after what she did...............? :scratchhead:


She did that about a year before we met, so it didn't happen while we were together. If it had, no, I would not be marrying her.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Caribbean Man said:


> But I don't really think the issue is retroactive jealousy as much as it is one of honesty and compatibility.


It's also being realistic about the future prospects of a relationship.

No one, male or female, wants to the be the stable reliable plan B that someone takes up after the hot, feisty, edgy one left.

Down the road after you've invested your all in relationship, who wants to hear the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" routine.

so when you get the hint or even the big smack in the face that your partner "made it easier" for someone else to enjoy their company (in whatever way that is -- easy sex, all expense paid trips, etc.....), you can only wonder when it's going to happen again that your partner will be offering someone else those same favors and at "the same low price."


----------



## Mario Kempes

samyeagar said:


> She did that about a year before we met, so it didn't happen while we were together. If it had, no, I would not be marrying her.


Glad to hear that, Sam.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

Caribbean Man said:


> So then,
> 
> Why do people who place little value on sex always try to settle down with people who place high value on sex , then blame them , and call them
> " _insecure_" later on in the relationship,when the sh!t hits the fan?
> 
> If they change their views on sex , then I can understand.
> 
> Bit what sense does it make maintaining such views , and trying to force it down the throat of someone who has different views?
> 
> Why not simply settle down with someone with the same views on sex?
> In other words, if sex isn't of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner places a " higher value" on sex than you?


I see what you did there. Why don't we turn it around: 

*"Why do people who place high value on sex always try to settle down with people who place little value on sex, then blame them, and call them " insecure" later on in the relationship,when the sh!t hits the fan?

If they change their views on sex , then I can understand.

Bit what sense does it make maintaining such views , and trying to force it down the throat of someone who has different views?

Why not simply settle down with someone with the same views on sex? 
In other words, if sex is of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner places a " lower value" on sex than you?"*

See?


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

F-102 said:


> I will get him get in bed at the drop of a hat because he is, what do we call a guy like that? Oh yeah, a "man slvt".


Fixed that for you.


----------



## Nucking Futs

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I see what you did there. Why don't we turn it around:
> 
> *"Why do people who place high value on sex always try to settle down with people who place little value on sex, then blame them, and call them " insecure" later on in the relationship,when the sh!t hits the fan?
> 
> If they change their views on sex , then I can understand.
> 
> Bit what sense does it make maintaining such views , and trying to force it down the throat of someone who has different views?
> 
> Why not simply settle down with someone with the same views on sex?
> In other words, if sex is of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner places a " lower value" on sex than you?"*
> 
> See?


Let me clue you in a little bit. People who value sex do not want to marry people who do not value sex. They want to marry people who also value sex. The only way people who value sex end up with people who do not value sex is for the people who do not value sex to do what the op in this case did, deceive the person who values sex.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Anyone get the feeling op would be with the other guy if he was interested in an actual relationship with her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jaharthur

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I see what you did there. Why don't we turn it around:
> 
> *"Why do people who place high value on sex always try to settle down with people who place little value on sex, then blame them, and call them " insecure" later on in the relationship,when the sh!t hits the fan?
> 
> If they change their views on sex , then I can understand.
> 
> Bit what sense does it make maintaining such views , and trying to force it down the throat of someone who has different views?
> 
> Why not simply settle down with someone with the same views on sex?
> In other words, if sex is of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner places a " lower value" on sex than you?"*
> 
> See?


See what? That's not what happened here.


----------



## RClawson

Caribbean Man said:


> But I don't really think the issue is retroactive jealousy as much as it is one of honesty and compatibility.


It is not now CM but trust me when I say the reason all the RJ boys have flocked to this thread is because it resonates with their own personal situations. If she would have witheld this info and married him this would eventually be an RJ issue if uncovered later. Her boyfriend is exhibiting all the symptoms.


----------



## lovelygirl

lifeistooshort said:


> Anyone get the feeling op would be with the other guy if he was interested in an actual relationship with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THat's what I said earlier.
If it had worked with the other guy, she wouldn't be with her BF now.


----------



## theroad

jaharthur said:


> It could be as simple as the OP realizing the bf is an awesome catch and that she's been incredibly stupid in her prior choices.


That still does not make what she did not cheating.

She gave it up easy to the OM while keeping her BF arms length stringing him along as her plan B.


----------



## theroad

samyeagar said:


> Yep...united we are
> 
> A little while back, a couple months or so, I found out my STBW, after everything her ex had put er through, still went back to him for sex and her rationalization to help me understand and feel better about it...exact words...."I was using him...it meant nothing."


ROTFALMAO :rofl:


----------



## theroad

R J boys?


----------



## NextTimeAround

theroad said:


> R J boys?


I'm guessing, but I think it means *retroactive jealousy.
*


----------



## bandit.45

samyeagar said:


> Yep...united we are
> 
> A little while back, a couple months or so, I found out my STBW, after everything her ex had put er through, still went back to him for sex and her rationalization to help me understand and feel better about it...exact words...."I was using him...it meant nothing."


Are you working at being the bad boy she needs?


----------



## MSP

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> In other words, if sex is of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner places a " lower value" on sex than you?"


In my experience, about 99% of the time the low-desire partner either does not feel low-desire prior to marriage, or else they put up a front fooling themselves into thinking that somehow things will get better after marriage and suddenly they'll want sex all the time. 

Also, much of the time, the high-desire partner simply does not have enough experience to recognize when there is a problem. They're in love with their partner and simply expect their partner to feel the same way about sex. It often takes a couple of years before the reality sets in that their partner really is nowhere near as interested in sex as they are.

If you think about it, most people marry the first or second person they have a long-term relationship with. If they've been sexual with anyone else, those relationships have mostly been about sex. Therefore, they've never had to consider the fact that someone who loves them won't want to have regular sex with them, since everyone else has so far.


----------



## MSP

bandit.45 said:


> Are you working at being the bad boy she needs?


I like you better when you're blunt and unedited.


----------



## Caribbean Man

RClawson said:


> It is not now CM but trust me when I say the reason all the RJ boys have flocked to this thread is because it resonates with their own personal situations. If she would have witheld this info and married him this would eventually be an RJ issue if uncovered later. Her boyfriend is exhibiting all the symptoms.


Ok,

I understand!


----------



## Thor

RClawson said:


> It is not now CM but trust me when I say the reason all the RJ boys have flocked to this thread is because it resonates with their own personal situations. If she would have witheld this info and married him this would eventually be an RJ issue if uncovered later. Her boyfriend is exhibiting all the symptoms.


I wonder if RJ is a learned anxiety initially caused by an emotional trauma or attachment injury.


----------



## jaharthur

*Re: Re: My boyfriend found out about a past guy who he hates*



Thor said:


> I wonder if RJ is a learned anxiety initially caused by an emotional trauma or attachment injury.


This is an interesting subject and I think the answer is yes.

But it's also sort of a threadjack. As others have said, this thread is more about honesty and transparency. And considering the consequences of ones actions.

maybe you should pose your question in an independent thread.


----------



## Mario Kempes

MSP said:


> In my experience, about 99% of the time the low-desire partner either does not feel low-desire prior to marriage, or else they put up a front fooling themselves into thinking that somehow things will get better after marriage and suddenly they'll want sex all the time.
> 
> Also, much of the time, the high-desire partner simply does not have enough experience to recognize when there is a problem. They're in love with their partner and simply expect their partner to feel the same way about sex. It often takes a couple of years before the reality sets in that their partner really is nowhere near as interested in sex as they are.
> 
> If you think about it, most people marry the first or second person they have a long-term relationship with. If they've been sexual with anyone else, those relationships have mostly been about sex. Therefore, they've never had to consider the fact that someone who loves them won't want to have regular sex with them, since everyone else has so far.


Words of wisdom, MSP! :smthumbup:

I wish I could _*Like*_ your post 100 times!


----------



## Mr The Other

MSP said:


> In my experience, about 99% of the time the low-desire partner either does not feel low-desire prior to marriage, or else they put up a front fooling themselves into thinking that somehow things will get better after marriage and suddenly they'll want sex all the time.
> 
> Also, much of the time, the high-desire partner simply does not have enough experience to recognize when there is a problem. They're in love with their partner and simply expect their partner to feel the same way about sex. It often takes a couple of years before the reality sets in that their partner really is nowhere near as interested in sex as they are.
> 
> If you think about it, most people marry the first or second person they have a long-term relationship with. If they've been sexual with anyone else, those relationships have mostly been about sex. Therefore, they've never had to consider the fact that someone who loves them won't want to have regular sex with them, since everyone else has so far.


Indeed, it is too often blamed on bait and switch.

I also think that too many people just say they have a high sex drive as it is the standard thing to say. They assume that everyone will settle down to once or twice a month after a while.


----------



## F-102

Many of you ask how her BF found out. 10-to-1, the "jerk" was shooting his mouth off about it, and it got back to the BF.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Caribbean Man said:


> So then,
> 
> Why do people who place little value on sex always try to settle down with people who place high value on sex , then blame them , and call them
> " _insecure_" later on in the relationship,when the sh!t hits the fan?
> 
> If they change their views on sex , then I can understand.
> 
> Bit what sense does it make maintaining such views , and trying to force it down the throat of someone who has different views?
> 
> Why not simply settle down with someone with the same views on sex?
> In other words, if sex isn't of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner places a " higher value" on sex than you?


Thank You. Thank You. Thank You.

I've said in MANY MANY threads that one of the biggest set of circumstances that create issues like this are when the partners have different histories and thought processes.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> I see what you did there. Why don't we turn it around:
> 
> *"Why do people who place high value on sex always try to settle down with people who place little value on sex, then blame them, and call them " insecure" later on in the relationship,when the sh!t hits the fan?
> 
> If they change their views on sex , then I can understand.
> 
> Bit what sense does it make maintaining such views , and trying to force it down the throat of someone who has different views?
> 
> Why not simply settle down with someone with the same views on sex?
> In other words, if sex is of " high value" for you, why not make it a deal breaker if a potential partner places a " lower value" on sex than you?"*
> 
> See?


Because quite often, the person who places a high value on sex...BELIEVES they are settling down with someone who also places a high value on sex, only to find out later on, once they're already invested into the relationship, that their partner really didn't.....

Such as the Op's situation.


----------



## WhiteRaven

I wish my xWW was like Lonnie before we got married. I'd have never married her and saved myself a truck load of grief.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Dad&Hubby said:


> Thank You. Thank You. Thank You.
> 
> I've said in MANY MANY threads that one of the biggest set of circumstances that create issues like this are *when the partners have different histories and thought processes.*


:iagree:

That's why I believe that politics have no place in intimate relationships. 
What might be politically correct and " no problem " for one couple would be completely wrong and cause serious problems for another couple, based on the personalities types involved and their value system.


----------



## I Don't Know

RClawson said:


> My RJ brethren are all over this thread.


It's trigger central! If I catch myself trying to be content or *gasp* happy, I just come here and put a stop to that real quick.


----------



## alexm

MSP said:


> It often takes a couple of years before the reality sets in that their partner really is nowhere near as interested in sex as they are.


I was just going to chime in with my 2 cents and say pretty much this. I've now lived through this twice, and this second time around, I thought I knew better... lol. It's not that she faked it, or led me to believe that she wasn't who she is, it was entirely me. Blinders on, all that. We're working on it, though. But it does happen, and frequently*



*at least to me


----------



## Thor

jaharthur said:


> This is an interesting subject and I think the answer is yes.
> 
> But it's also sort of a threadjack. As others have said, this thread is more about honesty and transparency. And considering the consequences of ones actions.
> 
> maybe you should pose your question in an independent thread.


Well it might be a slight detour, but the OP hasn't been back in 5 days and I think her actions may be the kind of attachment injury which can cause RJ. Obviously the situation is one which guys with RJ relate to.

I don't really have RJ _except_ as it relates to 2 specific ex-bfs of my wife. Both of them got enthusiastic, easy, frequent, and unrestrained sex from her. Her other bfs I don't know what they got, and in fact I don't know how many there were or what the circumstances are (though it looks more extensive than she ever made it out to be). But I have no RJ related to the one other bf I do know about.

OP's bf (now ex-bf?) has probably had a deep wound out of this. I can see how he might develop an anxiety about previous bfs of any woman he dates in the future, wondering if she was giving freely to them but holding back with him in order to appear to have a high value on sex.


----------



## JCD

Lonnie's last post was 5 days ago. If the hostess is gone, it's time to leave the party.


----------



## jaharthur

JCD said:


> Lonnie's last post was 5 days ago. If the hostess is gone, it's time to leave the party.


She posted yesterday here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/182050-i-need-advice-after-my-multi-dating-disaster.html


----------



## JCD

jaharthur said:


> She posted yesterday here:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/182050-i-need-advice-after-my-multi-dating-disaster.html


And if you read that first post, you realize she isn't coming back.

If you have any sympathy for her, you won't comment there either. She already got mad swamped over here.


----------



## vellocet

JCD said:


> And if you read that first post, you realize she isn't coming back.
> 
> If you have any sympathy for her, you won't comment there either. She already got mad swamped over here.


I posted over there and told her exactly what I think she should do if she wants him back. Pure and simple. No dogging, no putting her down. Just simply what might work from the standpoint of a man who more than likely thinks as her bf does.

Why did she only want the advice of her fellow "ladies"? Validation?


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## xakulax

vellocet said:


> I posted over there and told her exactly what I think she should do if she wants him back. Pure and simple. No dogging, no putting her down. Just simply what might work from the standpoint of a man who more than likely thinks as her bf does.
> 
> *Why did she only want the advice of her fellow "ladies"? Validation*?


I think that's why. The fact that the OP wants a quick fix to a penitential long train problem tell me she doesn't fully understand what her action have done to her BF. She has receive some good advice here and the other thread but has shone not interest in any of it other than dropping in with a post here or there which only leaves us with more question; we still don't know how her BF found out about this and the more she doesn't say the more i'm starting to think he found this out in the worst way being told by the guy he hate the most if that is the case it MAKE IT ALL THE MORE WORSE.


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## jaharthur

vellocet said:


> I posted over there and told her exactly what I think she should do if she wants him back. Pure and simple. No dogging, no putting her down. Just simply what might work from the standpoint of a man who more than likely thinks as her bf does.
> 
> Why did she only want the advice of her fellow "ladies"? Validation?


No, I think there is a perception that men apply a double standard and are criticizing her for conduct they would applaud in a man, and therefore that men aren't qualified to give useful advice but only overly judgmental criticism. Indeed, the women who commented on the other thread (before it was shut down) were much more accepting of what happened and, if fact, some said she had dodged a bullet by smoking out the overly sensitive nature of the bf.

Venus and Mars.


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## xakulax

jaharthur said:


> No, I think there is a perception that men apply a double standard and are criticizing her for conduct they would applaud in a man, and therefore that men aren't qualified to give useful advice but only overly judgmental criticism. Indeed, the *women who commented on the other thread (before it was shut down) were much more accepting of what happened and, if fact, some said she had dodged a bullet by smoking out the overly sensitive nature of the bf.*
> 
> Venus and Mars.



I think the BF is one who dodged a bullet 


If that's the case then how does that make any sense asking one gender for help with another wouldn't you want a male perspective seeing how her BF is a man this isn't Venus and Mars this is logic and illogical this doesn't make any sense.


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## bandit.45

That was so funny.

She went over to the other forum thinking she would be safe with the ladies and you all just followed her over there like an army of sufferagists. :rofl:


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## lifeistooshort

While I agree that men do tend to apply double standards, I didn't see ladies going soft on her. I'm a lady and I thought what she did was scuzzy. Maybe I missed something.

Though in fairness to us ladies men post all the time specifically asking for input from other men, cause, you know as ladies we can't possibly offer advice in dealing with ladies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy

lifeistooshort said:


> While I agree that men do tend to apply double standards, I didn't see ladies going soft on her. I'm a lady and I thought what she did was scuzzy. Maybe I missed something.


One very prominent poster was quick to say that Lonnie was fortuante that he left, as she dodged a bullet. Also accused a fair number of folks of sl*t shaming (which she figured out by reading between the lines) when they did not wrap Lonnie in a big warm hug. Unfortunately, I don't think it is uncommon for folks to see a post like that and incorrectly apply it to other posters in a thread. 



> Though in fairness to us ladies men post all the time specifically asking for input from other men, cause, you know as ladies we can't possibly offer advice in dealing with ladies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I see that, though my perception of the issue was actually how to deal with men while multi-dating. With that issue, I think men can provide useful insights. But I would have prefered that the men had stayed away for a bit to allow more women to give their thoughts.


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## samyeagar

I don't and never have seen her behavior as wrong. I also don't and have never seen her boyfriends behavior as wrong. What concerned me was that this was attempting to be viewed through the lens of a double standard that simply was not present.

I don't remember specifically, and there may have been some, but I didn't see any pervasive shaming of her for the actual act of sleeping with the other guy. As I said, there may have been some individual posters that said the fact that she gave it up so quickly was wrong, and people who have sex quickly just for fun are wrong and bad, but that was not the points people were making.

The wrong behavior some saw was in the fact that she did not inform the boyfriend when it was happening. Most people seemed to agree it was fine for her to sleep with the other guy as it is her choice, just the timing and no disclosure. The fact that she had sex with the other guy as a stand alone act was never the problem.


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## norajane

lifeistooshort said:


> While I agree that men do tend to apply double standards, I didn't see ladies going soft on her. I'm a lady and I thought what she did was scuzzy. Maybe I missed something.
> 
> Though in fairness to us ladies men post all the time specifically asking for input from other men, cause, you know as ladies we can't possibly offer advice in dealing with ladies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And sometimes they are adamant that we ladies don't know what we want anyway.


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## samyeagar

norajane said:


> And sometimes they are adamant that we ladies don't know what we want anyway.


And in the case of this thread, no one doubted that she knew exactly what she wanted...her cake and to eat it too.


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## norajane

samyeagar said:


> And in the case of this thread, no one doubted that she knew exactly what she wanted...her cake and to eat it too.


I meant there are plenty of threads where a guy has an issue and the other guys here think that only another guy can give him the best advice because they believe women don't know what they want, and are very vocal about telling us that women can't give advice to men because we don't know what we want.


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## samyeagar

norajane said:


> I meant there are plenty of threads where a guy has an issue and the other guys here think that only another guy can give him the best advice because they believe women don't know what they want, and are very vocal about telling us that women can't give advice to men because we don't know what we want.


I gotcha  I'm in the camp of men that think women know exactly what they want...it just changes from time to time.


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## rrrbbbttt

It has been debated on both threads back and forth. Still the question arises how did the current BF find out about it.

If it was from the Enemy this would be a tremendous blow to the guys ego and also to how he perceives this woman respects him. 

Guess we will never know.

As some one who has experienced and still has mind movies how the knowledge was acquired by the boyfriend would give more understanding to the issue.


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## Thor

Any way that he found out would be bad. The least bad would be she told him voluntarily. Finding out from someone else would be very bad. Finding out from OM gloating would be the worst.


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