# Child of Divorce



## Ceegee

http://youtu.be/lbTFZ8cvHo4

I see this sentiment in my children. I feel their angst. I see their discomfort when their mother and I are together with them. 

What are your thoughts?


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## Stillkindofhopefull

Powerful. I sent it to my wife. We are separated. I'm home tonight while she works so I can stay with our son. I didn't want the separation or a divorce but I had come to more of a peace with it until this. It is a good reminder of why I didn't have a peace with separation or divorce to begin with.


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## Ceegee

Nor do I. 

Often times we find ourselves doing what this video suggests while the other parent does not. 

Then we feel like we have to make up for the other parents shortcomings. 

We do not.


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## Ceegee

Also, most of us don't have kids this open and honest. 

Or aware. 

Most of us have prod our kids for what they are feeling or what's bothering them. 

I began taking my kids to a therapist because they were so tight lipped. After a full year they said nothing about the divorce. 

Now we know that my two oldest boys are battling depression. They feel like they have to be strong and "resilient" for their mother and I. 

They don't. 

It's our job to protect them and make them feel secure. 

We failed them.


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## tom67

Ceegee said:


> Also, most of us don't have kids this open and honest.
> 
> Or aware.
> 
> Most of us have prod our kids for what they are feeling or what's bothering them.
> 
> I began taking my kids to a therapist because they were so tight lipped. After a full year they said nothing about the divorce.
> 
> Now we know that my two oldest boys are battling depression. They feel like they have to be strong and "resilient" for their mother and I.
> 
> They don't.
> 
> It's our job to protect them and make them feel secure.
> 
> We failed them.


I actually cried watching this.
My d was 12 at the time I don't think she has ever forgiven he mother.
Teenager's brains are not fully developed and I tried but I don't know if the damage can be undone.
She will be 16 in a few weeks.
Boy that was a trigger.


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## TheGoodGuy

I am SEETHING right now. Take what this kid is going through and multiply it by a mother who just walks away to drink and do drugs with a bunch of other losers, under the guise that "it's all for the best" and "see, it all worked out for everyone". As my IC says though: "you can't understand the mind of a sociopath because you aren't one".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

TheGoodGuy said:


> I am SEETHING right now. Take what this kid is going through and multiply it by a mother who just walks away to drink and do drugs with a bunch of other losers, under the guise that "it's all for the best" and "see, it all worked out for everyone". As my IC says though: "you can't understand the mind of a sociopath because you aren't one".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He has young ones and it breaks my heart.


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## Pluto2

TheGoodGuy said:


> I am SEETHING right now. Take what this kid is going through and multiply it by a mother who just walks away to drink and do drugs with a bunch of other losers, under the guise that "it's all for the best" and "see, it all worked out for everyone". As my IC says though: "you can't understand the mind of a sociopath because you aren't one".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I share your seething, having an ex who hasn't seen his kids in a year. 

From a child's point of view I honestly don't know if having two present, yet battling parents is better or worse than an having an absentee parent. As a parent, I find myself struggling not to over-compensate. Not that I can over-compensate with material things, but am I too lax because their dad isn't here? Have I put my life on hold to provide them with the stability they deserve?


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## whitehawk

l can't watch it yet and l dunno if l will. l'm scared of what l'll see as l still struggle for my daughter in all this , day in and day out.
And l still can't believe ex just fluffs over the topic like it's all just working out all sweet and dandy.
My beautiful d has not complained once about this new stupid life ex has thrown her into, not once , ever . But she did cry a lot at the start and we never ever saw her cry ever , before all this . Only if she hurt herself .
Still makes me as angry as all hell and breaks my heart just about daily , that she has too live like this now .


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## Ceegee

The video and letter are a production. I don't believe this child actually wrote it. 

That doesn't mean that he or other children of divorce don't feel this way. 

We all have our stories. Our X's may do some pretty horrible things but that's not the perspective I'm taking. 

I want good open communication. I want them to feel comfortable talking to me about anything and everything. My XW may be pretty bad but I'm not perfect either. I want them to be able to tell me when something upsets them and I want to be able to validate their feelings while giving them the tools to process them and self soothe. 

I cannot control what their mother does but I can be a supportive and loving father.


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## Fenix

You know what? Divorce sucks. It stinks for us and it really stinks for our children. I am not sure that we can do anything beyond try to keep the kids out of the line of fire and provide as much stability as possible. The lessons learned by children when parents go through a divorce are necessary but learned far too early.

I see my daughter dealing with it, and she has her ups and downs. My son is very quiet on it, which I find even more worrisome. I think he is also battling depression but he will not go see a therapist. I could force it, but he is 15. He feels betrayed by his dad, misses his dad and feels guilty when he enjoys the company of my friend and his family.

Still, divorce is often the best possible route when presented with other options.


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## Ceegee

Fenix said:


> You know what? Divorce sucks. It stinks for us and it really stinks for our children. I am not sure that we can do anything beyond try to keep the kids out of the line of fire and provide as much stability as possible. The lessons learned by children when parents go through a divorce are necessary but learned far too early.
> 
> I see my daughter dealing with it, and she has her ups and downs. My son is very quiet on it, which I find even more worrisome. I think he is also battling depression but he will not go see a therapist. I could force it, but he is 15. He feels betrayed by his dad, misses his dad and feels guilty when he enjoys the company of my friend and his family.
> 
> Still, divorce is often the best possible route when presented with other options.



It was the silence that bothered me most as well. That and the secrecy and lying. 

Fortunately my kids are younger and go to therapy willingly. They even enjoy it and fight over who gets to go next. 

My oldest (13yo son) has the IC's number stored on his phone and has called her on a couple of occasions when he's having trouble. 

We're fortunate to have found a fantastic therapist. She is always available to us and keeps me well informed.


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## Mr.Fisty

Pluto2 said:


> I share your seething, having an ex who hasn't seen his kids in a year.
> 
> From a child's point of view I honestly don't know if having two present, yet battling parents is better or worse than an having an absentee parent. As a parent, I find myself struggling not to over-compensate. Not that I can over-compensate with material things, but am I too lax because their dad isn't here? Have I put my life on hold to provide them with the stability they deserve?



Do you have any relatives or good friends that can be role models for your children. When my father passed away, it was my older cousins, and uncles that provided the figures I needed. 

Also, when I screwed up, they had a talk with me and made me own my problems and solve them. 

They taught me how to change oil, fix the lawn mower, taught me how to drive, and help bring stability.


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## Pluto2

I agree with Ceegee that the child in the video most likely did not write the letter. But I do believe the eloquent sentiments are genuine and felt for many children of divorce. The parents get caught up in the pain and power struggles of dissolving the relationship and the kids get pushed aside. Even when the fighting is allegedly about the kids, it still -really- about the power and control of the couple.

As for me, yes I have some male role-models that the kids see. I don't think it comes anywhere close to having a father.


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## SawbladeLily

I haven't watched the video and don't think I will. I have worried most about my kids and how they will do with all this. They are two older teenage girls, and the news that their father was leaving for another woman came as a huge shock. I have done everything in my power to make it easiest on them, right down to continuing to share the house with their father (not filing for divorce yet), and putting my resentments aside. He's only home about two weekends a month, but sometimes for a week at a time, therefore it made no sense at all to make him get another place and make my kids go visit him elsewhere. I'd rather leave and let him come here, but even that is not necessary. We are civil and get along, sometimes even going out to dinner with the four of us together. (GF is in another country). 

My best friend growing up - and still today- is a product of divorce. I have listened to her a lot through all this and have taken a lot of advice from her. She has given me her perspective on the things that were the hardest as a child of divorced parents. She was about 12 when her parents split. We were neighbors until then, growing up like sisters. The two biggest things she said was to not make the kids choose sides because they will always love the other parent no matter what they did, and second, to not make the kids feel guilty because they are not with me, and have left me alone.


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## EnjoliWoman

I worry a bout the impact of divorce as well. At times I beat myself up for choosing the husband I did. Or not leaving sooner and avoided having a child of divorce. I see she is hesitant to be vulnerable much like I am. I know she feels awkward when we are both present even tho we try to focus on her at those times.

But since I can't undo who I chose or the fact I had her I know the best option was to leave. I don't feel good about saddling her with that. 

I try to walk that line so carefully. Because of the ex's alienation tactics and badmouthing, it was so contentious that the judge ordered that neither of us speak to her about court, custody, the order - nothing. But she has lots of questions and it pains me to not answer her and know that HE answers her so she only has one side. I finally decided to tell her about his diagnosis, hoping that learning about NPD would answer some of her questions about why I left and why he is the way he is - so full of hate and anger and resentment.

I had hoped I would meet someone who could show her what a REAL father is like - a normal, loving, kind person. Instead I have to settle for her seeing my Dad and Mom.


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## Hardtohandle

My Ex hasn't seen my oldest in a year and a half. She insinuates I have poisoned him against her. 

Unfortunately for her I was smart enough to listen to friends, family and TAM. I did nothing but have kind words for her and offered her EVERY SINGLE crazy opportunity to see her kids, especially the oldest. I've went as far as offering to leave my own home so she could be alone with them. 

But right or wrong, I made sure my son knows I offered her all these choices.. I explained to him clearly its out of shame and not because she doesn't love him.. But that is her issue, *NOT MINE*..

I just don't want her to come around 10 years later and say I stopped her from seeing him and he never heard anything contrary from me, so it seems like I am admitting to doing just that to her..

I've dealt with my father never seeing me so I know how it is growing up knowing your father see's your older brothers and not you.. I have held some resentment towards them because of it. But nothing life ending.. I got older and understood.


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## Ceegee

EnjoliWoman said:


> I worry a bout the impact of divorce as well. At times I beat myself up for choosing the husband I did. Or not leaving sooner and avoided having a child of divorce. I see she is hesitant to be vulnerable much like I am. I know she feels awkward when we are both present even tho we try to focus on her at those times.
> 
> But since I can't undo who I chose or the fact I had her I know the best option was to leave. I don't feel good about saddling her with that.
> 
> I try to walk that line so carefully. Because of the ex's alienation tactics and badmouthing, it was so contentious that the judge ordered that neither of us speak to her about court, custody, the order - nothing. But she has lots of questions and it pains me to not answer her and know that HE answers her so she only has one side. I finally decided to tell her about his diagnosis, hoping that learning about NPD would answer some of her questions about why I left and why he is the way he is - so full of hate and anger and resentment.
> 
> I had hoped I would meet someone who could show her what a REAL father is like - a normal, loving, kind person. Instead I have to settle for her seeing my Dad and Mom.



Your entire post resonates with me. 

When does the hate and anger end? Only when they decide they don't want to be angry anymore. 

We then need to decide if we want their behavior to affect us. 

I made a conscious decision 2 years ago, right after we separated, that I would not let who she has become change who I am. 

Always do what's right regardless of what she's done. Always be honest. Always admit when you're wrong. 

Children are watching and learning from us.


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## EleGirl

As hard as divorce is on children, sometimes it's the better choice.

Living in a family where parents fight all the time, or parents hate each other, or parents are just peacefully co-existing with no love is also hard. These things can be equally as hard or more so.

I agree with others who say that it's a production. That child obviously did not write it. He also is obviously an actor. I think that a video of children talking about the impact the divorce has had on them in their own words would be a better way to get the messages across.


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## 3Xnocharm

I was/am a child of divorce, and my parents divorcing was one of the happiest events of my life. I was 15 or 16 when it was finalized, and the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders. There are no two experiences the same when it comes to this, and while its too bad that many kids suffer thanks to parents who suck them into their drama, or who use them as bargaining chips, there are those out there whose lives are made better because of the divorce.


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## TheGoodGuy

3Xnocharm said:


> I was/am a child of divorce, and my parents divorcing was one of the happiest events of my life. I was 15 or 16 when it was finalized, and the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders. There are no two experiences the same when it comes to this, and while its too bad that many kids suffer thanks to parents who suck them into their drama, or who use them as bargaining chips, there are those out there whose lives are made better because of the divorce.


I agree, no two experiences that unfold exactly the same way. I'm curious why was so much weight placed on your shoulders to begin with? Was it because you had been sucked into their drama?


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## 3Xnocharm

TheGoodGuy said:


> I agree, no two experiences that unfold exactly the same way. I'm curious why was so much weight placed on your shoulders to begin with? Was it because you had been sucked into their drama?


No. My dad was just such an a$$hole and made life at home miserable. I grew up watching him treat my mom like sh!t.


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## Ceegee

Who filed, 3x?


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## Openminded

My father cheated on my mother (I don't know if that was the first time or if it was the last time or if it was just one of many times) when I was around 14. At first she said she wanted a divorce -- which I totally supported -- but then she decided to stay for me (only child). 

The problem was that I never forgave my father and our once-close relationship never recovered. Also, I knew they weren't happy for the rest of their marriage and that weighed on me too. My mother died first, several decades later, and my father was the happiest widower I've ever seen and started dating literally the day after her funeral. 

I very much wish they had gotten divorced when I was 14.


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## southbound

I'm sure there are times when divorce is the only option when abuse and such is occurring. This video, however, makes me realize how terrible it is when parents think of only themselves and divorce over frivolous reasons without giving it their all and convince themselves that the kids will be ok.


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## TheGoodGuy

southbound said:


> I'm sure there are times when divorce is the only option when abuse and such is occurring. This video, however, makes me realize how terrible it is when parents think of only themselves and divorce over frivolous reasons without giving it their all and convince themselves that the kids will be ok.


For the walk away spouses/parents, it's all about cultural acceptance of divorce and rationalization of their abhorrent decisions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

Ceegee said:


> Who filed, 3x?


My mom filed.


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## RandomDude

My daughter is coping rather well with ex's and I's seperation and impending divorce. However, we have very stable and secure co-parenting arrangements and we are still a team in terms of that. Only thing is that mum and dad are no longer together, so the sense of security that comes from that, will never be there again.


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## Regretf

IDK, there are reasons and reasons to divorce, a lot of times parents only think about what they're going thru, how their needs are not being met, how "unhappy" they are., how the person they married "change" or did not live up to the expectations and sometimes they seldom make the changes themselves to see if by them changing they change the whole dynamic of the M. 

I'm of the opinión that if two people are married and one of them just is not happy for whatever reason then get out, but once you have kids you lose that privilege of thinking first about your "feelings", "needs" than about your kids needs, feelings, etc.

It's a balance act, does the good in the M outweigh the bad or viceversa, but still putting the children's needs first and foremost should be the priority.


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## Stillkindofhopefull

Agreed. 

It can sure be a fight, but we have to fight for our marriage. It's easier said than done when you are the one going through the hurt, but we have to try with everything we have.

The kids are supposed to be kids and the adults are supposed to be adults but we tend try to switch roles and just call the children "resilient."


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## Hopeful Cynic

I feel like this video is trying to guilt a parent who is considering divorce into stopping the process, without any regard for why the divorce may be happening, or what kind of relationship the parents would have on an ongoing basis if they did not divorce.

For example, if the marriage is breaking down due to infidelity or abuse on one parent's part, the cheater parent isn't likely to be swayed by the video. If guilt could change their mind, they wouldn't be cheating or abusive.

And if the betrayed spouse is convinced by the video to stay in the marriage, then the child is going to grow up with one miserable parent and one absentee or abusive parent.

I guess I should be thankful that my children were so young when my marriage ended that they now don't remember a two-parent household. But honestly, before that it wasn't a two-parent household either, it was me doing double time while my ex was out gallavanting all the time.


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## tripad

Openminded said:


> My father cheated on my mother (I don't know if that was the first time or if it was the last time or if it was just one of many times) when I was around 14. At first she said she wanted a divorce -- which I totally supported -- but then she decided to stay for me (only child).
> 
> The problem was that I never forgave my father and our once-close relationship never recovered. Also, I knew they weren't happy for the rest of their marriage and that weighed on me too. My mother died first, several decades later, and my father was the happiest widower I've ever seen and started dating literally the day after her funeral.
> 
> I very much wish they had gotten divorced when I was 14.


Yup 

My gf told me her dad womanise n mum put up with it for the children .

My gf grew up to be one who breaks many good boys' hearts n finally married a man whom she doesn't treat well. I suspect they each have their own affairs now. She said she would have preferred her mum to divorce too. 

In my case, my ex hits me amongst other reasons, so to divorce is necessary to show the consequences of DV. So my children will know what they can't do to their wives. Lesser of the two evil. 

They have not shown too much effects of divorce on them. in fact after they cried over the incident in the beginning, they seemed to move on happy. In fact, nobody guess.


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## SecondTime'Round

I don't think I can watch the video .


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## tripad

If parents divorce for selfish purposes or they had affairs n destroyed the family, imo, it's really bad. 

Leaving the BS to pick up the mess n cater to the kids. Like some friends I know. 

in my case, I m also picking up the mess. 

N I have been advised by many to live well be well n happy n kids will be fine. So i m doing that. N it's true. 

Of course, it things didnt happen this way would be ideal. But life is such n we just got to do the best for the kids.


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## lifeistooshort

If one is so concerned about the children why is an affair enough to wreck their lives, if you really believe that's what divorce does? 

And one should consider their kids when treating their spouse poorly. It's amazing to me how many people are poor spouses but all of a sudden are worried about the kids when the divorce happens. Is it really about the kids, or are they a convenient excuse to protect your interests? My ex wasn't all that worried about our kids when he was treating me like sh!t, but when I filed he was all of a sudden worried about them. The truth was it had nothing to do with them, he was worried about his interests.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## coffee4me

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I feel like this video is trying to guilt a parent who is considering divorce into stopping the process, without any regard for why the divorce may be happening, or what kind of relationship the parents would have on an ongoing basis if they did not divorce.


I didn't see that at all in the video more a plea for people to act more responsibly toward their kids when they get divorced. 

Most powerful line for me was "how you choose to parent me through this crisis will never wear off. I will either feel your selflessness, support and protection or I will have a scar on my heart". 

I'm lucky that my kids are very articulate about what they need. And I listen. The biggest thing I get asked is why I'm not in a relationship. Even when I say, because my kids have expressed that it threatens their sense of security, consistency and they have a need to feel my constant support now. They have told me straight out that a new relationship will make them insecure that it will bring them anxiety. It's too much for them to deal with right now after all they have been through. 

Amazing to me that the response from the overwhelming majority of people who hear that is, your kids will adjust, they are resilient. You need to do what makes you happy. That response always baffles me. I have a right to make myself happy even if I make my kids miserable? Like they have no rights to happiness themselves? 

Sometimes kids talk and they are developed enough to express their feelings. Lots of Parents aren't really listening because its not what they want to hear.


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## Ceegee

Hope things get better for your kids soon. 

They deserve to be happy. 😀


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## coffee4me

Thank you ceegee. They are doing remarkable well now. I think they just want the feeling of security, stability and happiness to last. At least till they get out of high school


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## Ceegee

I've been taking my kids to therapy for a little over a year now. At the therapists recommendation, I had my two older boys take psychological evaluations. 

They are both suffering from severe depressive disorders caused by the divorce as well as other things related to the divorce. 

The psychologists recommendation for them is to continue therapy and medication. She says she is not one to just throw meds at people, still, I have my reservations. 

Anyway, mom refuses to participate in getting kids to therapy. As well, she tries to prevent me from taking them (being relegated to weekend dad makes it quite difficult but I manage).

She also refuses to believe me, the kids' therapist, the psychologist and will not go to court ordered parent facilitation. She doesn't want to admit that the divorce hurt the kids. 

We all have our own experiences and form our opinions about these things based on our experience. Sometimes divorce is best for the whole family. Sometimes it destroys families. 

Kids are resilient but that should not make us feel ok with what they go through. We should do whatever we can to protect them.


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## coffee4me

I hope your children find some peace. The teen years are hard in the best of times add a few dramas and traumas it can be overwhelming for them.


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## Ceegee

coffee4me said:


> I hope your children find some peace. The teen years are hard in the best of times add a few dramas and traumas it can be overwhelming for them.



Oldest is 14 and second is only 11. 

Divorce started nearly 3 years ago which means he has been depressed since he was 8 years old. It absolutely breaks my heart. 

One of the counsellors that helped administer the test said to me in private, "do you realize how bright your son is"? I said yes he has always received high grades and started reading at a very early age. He said, "no, in all of my years of testing children I can only think of one other that tested as high as this boy. But, he hates school. If you don't get him help he's going to have a hard time".

I will do everything in my power and spare no resource to help him.


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## coffee4me

My kids are resistant to therapy. I know I know everyone says you are the parent make them go. 

My daughter tells me she talks to me and grandma about her issues so why does she need to talk to a stranger. She really does tell me her stuff and shows no signs of having problems coping. 

My son has had problems coping in the past, took tests online and self diagnosed himself as having depression and PTSD. He sought help from his school counselor without telling me when he was struggling. He does talk to me about most things and doesnt display the typical signs of clinical depression. He went to a therapist and told the therapist after a few sessions that he knew more about life and emotions than the therapist and he was wasting his time. 

Give me strength we are getting through this. He's 17 and definitely more young man than boy.


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## coffee4me

Ceegee said:


> I will do everything in my power and spare no resource to help him.


You're a good father it's really too bad your X is not on board to help the kids


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## tripad

lifeistooshort said:


> If one is so concerned about the children why is an affair enough to wreck their lives, if you really believe that's what divorce does?
> 
> And one should consider their kids when treating their spouse poorly. It's amazing to me how many people are poor spouses but all of a sudden are worried about the kids when the divorce happens. Is it really about the kids, or are they a convenient excuse to protect your interests? My ex wasn't all that worried about our kids when he was treating me like sh!t, but when I filed he was all of a sudden worried about them. The truth was it had nothing to do with them, he was worried about his interests.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same happened to me 

I think he's worried for selfish reasons now, that he has no one no family to be with, when his friends have left or when he's bored of his activities. 

Now my ex enjoys taking the children out 
Previously, I asked begged n quarrelled for time to spend with us.


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## tripad

Hardtohandle said:


> My Ex hasn't seen my oldest in a year and a half. She insinuates I have poisoned him against her.
> 
> Unfortunately for her I was smart enough to listen to friends, family and TAM. I did nothing but have kind words for her and offered her EVERY SINGLE crazy opportunity to see her kids, especially the oldest. I've went as far as offering to leave my own home so she could be alone with them.
> 
> But right or wrong, I made sure my son knows I offered her all these choices.. I explained to him clearly its out of shame and not because she doesn't love him.. But that is her issue, *NOT MINE*..
> 
> I just don't want her to come around 10 years later and say I stopped her from seeing him and he never heard anything contrary from me, so it seems like I am admitting to doing just that to her..
> 
> I've dealt with my father never seeing me so I know how it is growing up knowing your father see's your older brothers and not you.. I have held some resentment towards them because of it. But nothing life ending.. I got older and understood.


why did your father see your older bro and not you ?

n I learn one thing , u cant rationalize with irrational people . so your wife will come around 10 years later and say it's your fault that she didn't see her son .

I get this all the time .

really great dad you are still able to say all the nice things which are all sweet liitle lies for your children . I am judging or disagreeing . to each its own . I told my children age appropriate truths so they know why things happen and it is not their fault . anycase , mine is straight forward .


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## tripad

coffee4me said:


> I didn't see that at all in the video more a plea for people to act more responsibly toward their kids when they get divorced.
> 
> Most powerful line for me was "how you choose to parent me through this crisis will never wear off. I will either feel your selflessness, support and protection or I will have a scar on my heart".
> 
> I'm lucky that my kids are very articulate about what they need. And I listen. The biggest thing I get asked is why I'm not in a relationship. Even when I say, because my kids have expressed that it threatens their sense of security, consistency and they have a need to feel my constant support now. They have told me straight out that a new relationship will make them insecure that it will bring them anxiety. It's too much for them to deal with right now after all they have been through.
> 
> Amazing to me that the response from the overwhelming majority of people who hear that is, your kids will adjust, they are resilient. You need to do what makes you happy. That response always baffles me. I have a right to make myself happy even if I make my kids miserable? Like they have no rights to happiness themselves?
> 
> Sometimes kids talk and they are developed enough to express their feelings. Lots of Parents aren't really listening because its not what they want to hear.


yup

same.

my kids talks . n thus copes fine .

my older boy expresses concern if I date n worries it will turn out to be same as my ex . they told me they are happy the way it is now .

date in secret ?


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## tripad

Ceegee said:


> Oldest is 14 and second is only 11.
> 
> Divorce started nearly 3 years ago which means he has been depressed since he was 8 years old. It absolutely breaks my heart.
> 
> One of the counsellors that helped administer the test said to me in private, "do you realize how bright your son is"? I said yes he has always received high grades and started reading at a very early age. He said, "no, in all of my years of testing children I can only think of one other that tested as high as this boy. But, he hates school. If you don't get him help he's going to have a hard time".
> 
> I will do everything in my power and spare no resource to help him.


hope your boys do fine .

but are you in therapy yourself ? maybe you need support and therapy too and in turn you can help your boys better ? very much like in aeroplane take off , put on your own air mask , then put on kids mask .

if you are depress , it shows . if you are sad , they will be . I have gone through the process but thank god , I snapped out pretty quickly . those sad days when I thought I had cried in the bathroom , they said they heard me . or they saw in my eyes or face .

you sound pretty sad and depress . I would be if my boys are depressed .

like I post earlier , I thank god I have pretty good advice from various friends . live well , eat well , be healthy and happy . one of the good "adviser "is my really expensive lawyer , she said that in her 20 years career , 2 women clients died on her from cancer during the divorce proceedings ; and the husbands ? couldn't be happier and married very quickly after the funeral . he doesn't mourn for her . so , I chose the path of of be happy and grow old happy with my boys .

ps- my boys didn't suffer in their grades , continued to do well , my younger son went into the top class .

ceegee - I cheer you on !!!!!!!!!!! be strong . for your children . you will have a better life after all is over . you may find some one better .


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## coffee4me

tripad said:


> my older boy expresses concern if I date n worries it will turn out to be same as my ex .


Same big concern for my son


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## tripad

coffee4me said:


> Same big concern for my son


but similarly , older ladies told me , in time , I have to think for myself , to find another husband , who may actually be a better father figure , and a better husband , because one day the kids grow up , marry and leave you . and we will be old and lonely and bitter and end up calling our sons all the time and piss their wives off .

I see the picture from all angles . balancing act .

my gf , married son of a divorcee or widow , I cant remember , and my gf complains that the MIL calls all the time for the slightest thing . and frankly the husband / son of the old lady , feels suffocated and not being able to have a life and yet guilt trip all the time . he hates it .

so maybe we got to date and find another soulmate one day , not too far away.


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## coffee4me

I think my kids will be ok with it in a few more years. They just need more time. 

I know I will never marry again. I don't even want to live with someone again. I have a big clan like family so even when my kids go off and get married I won't be alone. But I think a boy friend would be nice. 

So I'll be in my 50's looking for a man to go steady but not to ever marry or live with. . Shouldn't be too hard to find. Lol


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## tripad

coffee4me said:


> I think my kids will be ok with it in a few more years. They just need more time.
> 
> I know I will never marry again. I don't even want to live with someone again. I have a big clan like family so even when my kids go off and get married I won't be alone. But I think a boy friend would be nice.
> 
> So I'll be in my 50's looking for a man to go steady but not to ever marry or live with. . Shouldn't be too hard to find. Lol


I wonder too if I will ever marry 

but to have someone is good , but im not into booty calls or casual relationship , so its going to be like married then . just not legally .


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## 06Daddio08

Keep doing what you're doing CG.


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## RandomDude

These videos do nothing but guilt trip people into staying in toxic marriages. To hell with that.

Honestly looking back I was actually glad mum and dad split because of all their fking issues and me being dragged in between them. I once promised my daughter that she will never be raised in the same environment as I did in my youth. For the longest time I felt so much guilt by breaking the promise via divorce (and still to this day sometimes I feel the guilt) but FFS!

In the end, by divorcing my wife I probably upheld my promise to my daughter better than if I had stayed with my wife. FK I'm so sick of all this crap, all these guilt trips and even worse - religion feeding my daughter false hope of reconciliation preventing her from reaching the 5th and final stage of grief; acceptance.

FK this video.


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## tripad

Glad that my sons wanted the divorce too. 

Acceptance


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## SawbladeLily

Ceegee said:


> Oldest is 14 and second is only 11.
> 
> One of the counsellors that helped administer the test said to me in private, "do you realize how bright your son is"? I said yes he has always received high grades and started reading at a very early age. He said, "no, in all of my years of testing children I can only think of one other that tested as high as this boy. But, he hates school. If you don't get him help he's going to have a hard time".
> 
> I will do everything in my power and spare no resource to help him.


I have gone through the exact same thing with my youngest daughter! In elementary school the gifted and talented coordinator came to me to talk about setting up some kind of program for my daughter. I was happy she was going to do something extra for my DD. But then she said the school was just not equipped to do much for her. I was confused. Then she said, "your daughter is different." I knew she was bright, but the coordinator said she was brighter than what the school could deal with and she recommended we go outside school and get the right kind of enrichment. She recommended a couple of centers for talented youth. We ended up with the Johns Hopkins program and DD did some online courses, sometimes supplanted what the school offered, sometimes just as an extra. The problem was the asynchronous development and she loved her school class, so we couldn't just bump her up a grade or two. 

My biggest recommendation is to get some help from someone who is EXPERIENCED with exceptional youth!!! I can't stress this enough. And that is not going to be through the school. We ended up going to a child psychologist who specializes in GT adolescents. My DD is now a junior in high school. She has hated school until last year. She started failing in middle school, while she scored at the top of the entire grade in all the standards. We have had to fight the school every step of the way to get them to acknowledge they were boring her to death. We finally had her take the SAT test after 7th grade just to prove to the school that the rote, mundane stuff she had to do was the cause of her failing. She scored 92nd percentile in language portion. Only then did they start to make any accommodations. There are a lot of resources and advice for parents online, and one very good source was Hoagies Gifted education. (hoagiesgifted.org). You can google it if the link in this post doesn't work. 

Sort of off topic for this thread, but this subject resonates for me. The school almost ruined my kid. I'm so glad she finally got into classes and liking school again before her father hit us with his leaving. She went through a depression as well, but now it's been a year and half since they learned of his GF, and they are much better.


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## Ceegee

Thanks for sharing. I'll look into your recommendations.


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## Dedicated2Her

CG, just from a point of your own personal confidence in the matter......

My therapist has been adamant about the fact that it only takes one of the parents to be fully engaged for a child to truly turn out ok. While there are concerns, have confidence that if you continue to be the dad you are that things are going to turn out the way they were designed to. It's been 3 years since my divorce, and I'm just now starting to see some incredible changes in my children emotionally.


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## tripad

Dedicated2Her said:


> My therapist has been adamant about the fact that it only takes one of the parents to be fully engaged for a child to truly turn out ok.
> 
> .


read that somewhere too

and most nights , my bed time prayers with my children include this "please give me the wisdom to be the best mum poss and where I fail , please forgive me and let my children understand and forgive too "

gosh . it's tough , isn't it ?


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## Ceegee

Official report from neuropsych: "s11's difficulties on the BASC-2 are due to his emotional struggle to come to terms and face the horrendous impact that his parents' divorce has had on his emotional stability and well being".

It's a 9 page report but that's what hurt the most. 

This isn't a contrived video. It's real life. 

He'll be fine in time but it sucks that he has to endure this. 

Full scale IQ is 120. Which is "superior". However, other IQ scores are at 132 and 119. What brought overall score down is processing speed at 97. This is the score that indicates depression (within the intelligence study). 

Both boys' DSM-V diagnosis:

S11 - 309.28 adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood. 

S14 - 309.0 adjustment disorder with depressed mood. 

Real life neuropsychologist endorsed study on effects of divorce on kids...


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## Chuck71

When I was 10.... my uncle picked me up at a friend's house

had no clue what was going on. He didn't take me home either.

He took me to one of mom's HS friend's home. There I got the news

they're getting D. It took me a long time to understand the fear and

panic which came over me. Being scared to death was an understatement.

Who will take me to school? Who will pick me up? Can I still play baseball

this year? They worked things out. But I will always remember the horror I

felt that short time. Fast forward six years and I was much older and 

understood the dynamics. I told mom to please D pop. I was willing to

drop out of school to work full time if I had to. But for a couple months, 

I felt the bitter emotions of D, from both sides.


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## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> When I was 10.... my uncle picked me up at a friend's house
> 
> had no clue what was going on. He didn't take me home either.
> 
> He took me to one of mom's HS friend's home. There I got the news
> 
> they're getting D. It took me a long time to understand the fear and
> 
> panic which came over me. Being scared to death was an understatement.
> 
> Who will take me to school? Who will pick me up? Can I still play baseball
> 
> this year? They worked things out. But I will always remember the horror I
> 
> felt that short time. Fast forward six years and I was much older and
> 
> understood the dynamics. I told mom to please D pop. I was willing to
> 
> drop out of school to work full time if I had to. But for a couple months,
> 
> I felt the bitter emotions of D, from both sides.


wow
Sorry to hear that but thank you for sharing.


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## Chuck71

The BASC is more geared for uncovering "suspected" issues.

Did they offer to do a WJ-III or WISC? For comparison?

When you match two or three tests against another.... you get

a clearer picture.


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## tripad

Chuck71 said:


> When I was 10.... my uncle picked me up at a friend's house
> 
> had no clue what was going on. He didn't take me home either.
> 
> He took me to one of mom's HS friend's home. There I got the news
> 
> they're getting D. It took me a long time to understand the fear and
> 
> panic which came over me. Being scared to death was an understatement.
> 
> Who will take me to school? Who will pick me up? Can I still play baseball
> 
> this year? They worked things out. But I will always remember the horror I
> 
> felt that short time. Fast forward six years and I was much older and
> 
> understood the dynamics. I told mom to please D pop. I was willing to
> 
> drop out of school to work full time if I had to. But for a couple months,
> 
> I felt the bitter emotions of D, from both sides.



Damn 

That makes me feel bad for my sons.

Everyday I wonder if what I did or say is bitter.


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## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> The BASC is more geared for uncovering "suspected" issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Did they offer to do a WJ-III or WISC? For comparison?
> 
> 
> 
> When you match two or three tests against another.... you get
> 
> 
> 
> a clearer picture.



WISC-IV, D-KEFS, CVLT-C, BASC-2, Grooved Pegboard, Rey Complex Figure, MMPI-A.


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## southbound

A powerful and true video. It's amazing how most people who divorce don't think of how it will impact the kids, it's all about them.


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## tripad

southbound said:


> A powerful and true video. It's amazing how most people who divorce don't think of how it will impact the kids, it's all about them.


A general comment here. 

When I drag my ex to MC I was asked why I took so long to get help. I was advised to divorce by counsellor n friends when I finally confided. 

It's painful to see the effects on kids. 

Maybe a better video will be the children ask why the parent cheated, or abuse the other spouse, or gamble, or take drugs, etc n screw the family.


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## Ceegee

Texts from my son last night. 

I don't want to live in this house any more. 

SHE DRIVING ME NUTS. 

She's going to say something that will make me snap. 

Some may think this is great. He doesn't want to be there so he'd rather be with me right? Well, truth is I feel horrible for my son.


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## Pluto2

Of course you do, CG. No loving parent wants their child to go through this. Every child ought to have two parents that can put their differences aside and let the kids be kids. The key word in that sentence is "ought". We know it doesn't always happen that way.

How old is your son, I forget? Is he getting of an age that a court will listen to a request for a change of primary residence? Is that something you believe should be considered. Not that that would fix everything. His Mom will always try to find ways to make his head feel like exploding.


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## Ceegee

He just turned 14. Judges will listen to kids opinion at 12 where we live. 

All three already stated they want to be with me more. 

Meeting with attorney and parent facilitator next week. 

It'll be a long, hard and expensive process.


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## Chuck71

Whichever one is the strongest mentally of your kids

have him make the move to your residence most of the time

the other two will follow. I still stand by that 

It is a shame they have to put up with "adult" problems while they are still

early teen and pre-teen. Every time they have to confront CT,

it is one more chance at childhood growth they miss.

CG you know more of my back story with pop than most.... that one year I

felt I jumped from 12 to 16. It was not a fun time. Yes it is looking back 25-30

years but not while I went through it.


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## Ceegee

Yes, I know what needs to be done and am working responsibly toward it. 

I just don't like the fact that the kids will have to go through it. CT (my ex's TAM moniker for those who don't know) will fight it tooth and nail. 

She will say that I am spending our children's future (again like the divorce, which was her decision). It will create a more stressful time for them. 

I just can no longer sit idle while they ask to be with me and continue to go through the things they go through while in her care. 

I've reached out to her. Asked her to participate in their therapy. Shared with her the findings of the neuropsych. She doesn't want to believe it. Doesn't want to hear it.


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## Chuck71

CT does not wish to hear the truth. The truth tends to sting delusional people.

If the oldest was to be willing to sit down with a judge and express his / her desires

to stay with you more, do you still have to go through all the motions, $$, and such?


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## Ceegee

I'll find out in the next meeting. 

Thing is, it's not just him that want to be here. S11 and D8 want to also.


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## Regretf

It pains me how some adults don't see the consequences of their actions and the hurt they can induct into a child. Pride, selfishness and ego, fighting with ex, power struggle and at the end of the day the ones ending hurt are the children, sad that when parents realice this the damage has been too much and sometimes it's too late.


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## Pluto2

God that is so true. I'm dealing with that now with my youngest, the one who has been trying to maintain a relationship with her dad, and he just keeps messing it up.

The thing is, they know who is there for them, who makes sure that they have food and clothes that fit, and speak with the teachers. and tell them they are out of line. They know who is a real parent.
Ceegee, your kids know too. And for that I think you are wonderful.


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## Ceegee

Pretty rough day. 

S14, unbeknownst to me, told his mom today that he doesn't want to be with her anymore. Told her it's his right to choose where he wants to be. 

He was at my place when he told her. Had to break the news to him that, while I will do everything I can to help, he still has to go with his mom. Tears and hugs. 

This crap sucks. 

She's taken the boys phones away. I do not know what's going on over there tonight. My heart breaks for them. 

He says he's tired of all of the yelling and pressure from having to play the role of a parent.


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## Pluto2

Isn't she required to allow telephone use under the custody agreement? Or is she limiting the phone contact to "her" phone so she can monitor (again, against the custody I believe). As you know, document everything.
It takes a strong young man to stand up to his mother in that manner.


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## Chuck71

CT did things to you, but you admit you were not perfect

when they direct it at innocent children

you are seeing EXACLY who she is

unmasked.... true emotion 

you're dating a great gal..... hopefully she can model how a future W should be 

they will all three come to you but..... if it costs $, who else would you rather

spend it on?


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## Ceegee

No, she has no obligation in the decree. However, there was an agreement we made during the collaborative process. She's batting about 50%. 

Fortunately, my daughter has taken it upon herself to set an alarm and call me. From her iPod. Thank God for FaceTime Audio. 

Had talk with S14 this afternoon. Asked him how things went after he left yesterday. He just gave me a look like "how do you think it went". He's dealing and coping.

Got a call from kids therapist. She says CT sent her and the facilitator an email filled with angry rants. Said she was all over the place complaining about not being included with what's going on. Then saying do not recommend any more expensive tests. 

Therapist took offense saying she has tried to include her but she refuses to take part. 

How can you expect to be included then say don't do your job?


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## Chuck71

CT was pretty, make up and all, feminine 

now is the true CT...... no mask.... whatcha think??


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## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> CT was pretty, make up and all, feminine
> 
> 
> 
> now is the true CT...... no mask.... whatcha think??



Disgusting.


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## Chuck71

you now face Vader but the key thing is..... you know you will win, without hate


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## Regretf

Good luck Ceegee. How can some people be so hateful that don't see the damage they cause their kids. Anything to get back to ex which they hurt. The nerve on some it's disgusting.


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## Dedicated2Her

Ceegee said:


> Disgusting.


Nah. She just has the emotional makeup of a 16 year old girl.......well...maybe 14.....


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## Pluto2

Dedicated2Her said:


> Nah. She just has the emotional makeup of a 16 year old girl.......well...maybe 14.....


Now wait just one minute. My youngest just turned 14 and she would NEVER act is such a manipulative, irresponsible manner.


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## Ceegee

That's insulting to my 14 year old. Lol. 

Had meeting with the boys' school counselor. Went very well. She knows my oldest very well as he is an aide in her office. 

She gave an unsolicited opinion on XW's belligerence. Said she is so sorry that the kids and I have to go through this. Also said she thought the kids would be better off with me. 

This may seem out of line for a school counselor but she knows my boys and our family very well. She knows a lot more about us than a school counselor should with all of the situations we've had. 

If you're a dad take my advice and get to know all of the authorities in your children's lives. Know their doctors, teachers, counselors, friends parents, etc. You should know each other well enough that you can call them up or email them anytime you want to or need to. 

You should, at the very least, make them them have to think about which parent they should call when they need to discuss your children.


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## tom67

Ceegee said:


> Disgusting.



You are doing the best you can.
God I feel for the kids.


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## Ceegee

They have ups and downs. It's not all bad. 

Counselor says she can see a drastic change in S14's demeanor over the last couple of weeks. Coincides with the arguments he's been having with mom. 

When they're here it's like a huge weight has been lifted. We have fun. 

So fortunate to be self employed with great support. I'm able to spend a couple of hours with them each day even on her possession days.


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## Pluto2

Where are they spending spring break?


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