# Please help with this decision...



## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

I have a tough marriage. And I'm trying to figure out if I should stay or go. Married 13 years. 1 daughter. She's 7. I am the breadwinner. 

We've had a difficult past. Lots of problems. We've seperated. Then gotten back together. (He threatened suicide). I felt scared and weak. We have gone to couple therapy. That didn't last very long.... 

There have been moments of possible physical abuse of our daughter. He claimed it was accidental... And it may have been. He hasn't been physically abusive since. 

The moments of high drama are not there now. Things seem stable. However, he's working from home these days and will not speak to me very often....when I'm home. He is passive aggressive with me. If I'm driving... He will constantly Tell me what to do or the mistakes I've made. He consistently questions everything I do ... As if I'm an idiot. He is a conspiracy theorist ... He almost got catfishes online and I showed him the red flags... And a day later... He asked if maybe my 67 year old mother was behind it. (She is NOT capable of even the technology of that). And she is a woman who goes to church every morning. 

We don't have sex. I'm sure if I threw myself on him... We could. But it has been months... Lately. This is something we have been to therapy for...in the past. It helped for a bit. But obviously the problem has resurfaced. 

We are in terrible debt. We don't own anything. He barely works more than a day a week... Barely makes enough to cover the bills. We have no savings. Our car lease is up and he was considering increasing our car payment. 

Bottom line, I feel like I am living with a college student. While he is a good father...he is also basically a stay at home dad for a child that's at school everyday til 4. 

The reason I'm at such a cross roads... Is I have a business venture that could substantially help me financially. My husband is not involved in the project because he is not motivated at all. Well, if this happens... And if I'm married... He would get half of it. 

My close friends who know the situation are already concerned that my DH will try to suck me dry. He already told me (when we last separated) that he wanted alimony. 

I have always said that IF I had the financial means to leave.., I would. And now that day MAY be here... And I am feeling stuck and scared. 

What advice would you give me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would tell you to legally separate and let him live on his own for a while, so he grows up. If he's making changes in a year, consider getting back together. Hopefully that legal separation will protect your business assets (consult a lawyer).


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why doesn't he work?

C
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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

He wanted to try his hand at his own business. He started it several months ago. It basically amounts to him doing contract work. Daily contract work. He has made about as much as he did with his previous employer... But he's buying equipment and not paying taxes. And I provide healthcare. He just doesn't want to work for anyone anymore I guess. Meanwhile, I'm working a lot. I'm never home. 

I have suggested he take a regular job. It doesn't go over well. 

I should also say he still doesn't do lawn work and I just had to hire a housekeeper because our place was a wreck. We have family coming in... I'm working non stop and the place was a disaster. So, he stays home ... Doesn't clean much. Barely does laundry. Pays a lawn crew. And watches our son from 4pm til his 8pm bedtime. 






PBear said:


> Why doesn't he work?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Kick the bum out.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

You really think so? I don't know why I get so wishy washy about this... I just do. 
This is why this forum is so helpful. Objective opinions. 

In the air of objectivity, I should say that he is bringing in money. It's just not perfect scenario right now because he's spending his earnings on equipment. And what I tell him is SO concerning is that he doesn't have a reliable paycheck/savings. Many of his jobs don't pay for 30 or 60 days after his work is don't. And that makes things tough when we need to pay rent. 

And that's why I've asked him to consider going and getting a reliable job. He just tells me it's not worth it because he wants to coach soccer for our daughter and take her to various events that I can't because my work hours prevent me from doing. 




turnera said:


> Kick the bum out.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're not going to kick him out, you're going to have to learn to be stronger. Read The Dance Of Anger to start with. Then Boundaries In Marriage.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You give a ton of reasons not to stay in the marriage. But none for why you SHOULD stay in the marriage. 

Have you looked at the good "Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay"?

C
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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Yes. I have read that book. 

Here are reasons to stay. Our daughter. It's familiar. Easy to continue in this state of coasting and not really thriving. I'm scared to be alone. I wonder if I'm capable of handling being alone. I am smart but I will admit i often find my self reactive and impulsive. 

I don't know if I love him. When he's sick (he's constantly got something) I don't feel worried or even sad for him. I don't really enjoy talking to him. We don't laugh together. And I often find myself avoiding taking him in public because he often embarrasses me by saying something inappropriate. 





PBear said:


> You give a ton of reasons not to stay in the marriage. But none for why you SHOULD stay in the marriage.
> 
> Have you looked at the good "Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay"?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

I should also say the moment he senses I'm getting upset or aloof ... He starts making me dinners etc. this morning I was quiet and he wanted to come give me a back rub to help ease my stress. 

Maybe I'm a total b for thinking that's calculated? 



renee5555 said:


> Yes. I have read that book.
> 
> Here are reasons to stay. Our daughter. It's familiar. Easy to continue in this state of coasting and not really thriving. I'm scared to be alone. I wonder if I'm capable of handling being alone. I am smart but I will admit i often find my self reactive and impulsive.
> 
> ...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

None of your reasons for staying are valid to me, personally. They would be reasons to seem out individual counseling so you can fix them, though. And even with giving reasons to stay, you give even more reasons why you should leave. 

As far as your second post... Consciously or not, he's trying to do the bare minimum to make you happy again. Probably because it's worked in the past. 

C
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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I agree none of the reasons for staying are valid. Fear isn't a reason for staying. It's an EXCUSE for staying. 

Normally I advise couples to work stuff out where they can but:

*THE CONS:
*
He's emotionally abusive by: 
- criticizing you unnecessarily
- ignoring you intentionally to convey his disapproval
- passive aggressive behavior
- withholding sex and affection

Add to that he's financially irresponsible:
- he's not paying taxes (do you really want THAT joint marital liability???) 
- you guys are in debt enough to cause you concern
- he only works approximately one day a week and does not use the rest of his time to contribute in non-financial ways
- you have NO savings (huge risk for parents)
- yet he wants to increase your car payment

And therapy/counseling has only had minimal effect the two times you have tried it. (Kudos for his willing to try.)

*THE PROS:
*

- He's a good father
- It's the devil you know vs. the devil you don't know.

I suggest you divorce. He DOES work so he cannot claim alimony. He has his own business and makes almost enough to cover the bills. Especially if he has the same amount of education as you and/or has earned more before.

Let him keep the tax debt - you had withholding from your pay check for your job, right? So you are paying your tax obligations. (This happened with me BTW - ex was self employed, didn't pay quarterly taxes ended up getting an IRS lien after we separated and because I was the spouse (although separated) with a bank account all of a sudden the IRS seized my bank account and savings account and since that wasn't enough, my paychecks were garnished, too. Fortunately, in our final divorce he agreed to reimburse me. It could have been much worse.)

I don't see what you get out of this relationship. It sounds like he is mentally ill. You might want to try for another round of long-term counseling with a psychiatrist and see if meds help. But aside from that, I don't see what would help.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm all for stay at home parents whether that be mom or dad. However, the prerequisite of that must be that the child is actually home too. I'm sorry but I do not see how he can justify working part time, at best, and not doing a thing the rest of the day such as laundry or yard work. I find it admirable that he wants to be involved with your daughter's soccer team but that's all I find to be admirable about him. 

Really the question comes down to --- What frightens you the most? Being in a loveless, stressful marriage for the sake of having someone around or being alone with the great possiblity of finding success in a new business and happiness? 

What really frightens you about being alone? Is it emotional or physical? Because the way I see it, you are virtually alone right now. You are doing all the things you would have to do if you were living by yourself. Meaning, hiring someone to do yard work and do housecleaning. All he is is a body in the house. 

Don't sell yourself short and believe you can't be alone. And you know, who says you have to be? Perhaps you can do a trial separation and instead of getting a place of your own you can find another singleton to share space with? 

Your husband needs a dose of reality. He's not going to give it to himself. 

Good luck to you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You'll be helping HIM by sending him packing. He'll have to grow up and stop depending on his SugarMomma. And it will help you by learning you CAN be independent from him, and you'll get back some of your self esteem and character when you don't spend every day wishing things were different.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, I think a HUGE reason that I doubt myself and avoid leaving is because on the exterior...if I stand back and look...I think I may be too picky or can't just see the good in the situation.

So here it goes. He can be kind....this morning he came over and started rubbing my shoulders and telling me he wants to help eliminate my stress. He offers to write up documents that I may need for work... when he's not doing anything. 

He helps get our daughter ready for school in the am (I work everyday until 10pm...and struggle to fall asleep by midnight). 

If I have to work through my dinner break ...he will often bring our daughter to meet me for dinner at a local restaurant...so I can at least see her. 

He never goes out with friends etc...so he's not one to stray. 

I think he truly loves me in his own way...or possibly...he just knows it's best not to rock the apple cart...since I am the breadwinner. IDK?

No, he doesn't clean the house to anyone's average level of cleanliness...and most of the time I have to do the laundry... and he did hire a lawn crew. 

But, he does help our daughter with her homework and tries to microwave me something...so I can eat quickly when I come home.

I mean....maybe I'm just not being fair to him? I don't know. I just want to make sure I paint the FULL picture...so I am not slighting him...as someone forms an opinion.

My therapist says that it may just be me staying in denial???




IrishGirlVA said:


> I'm all for stay at home parents whether that be mom or dad. However, the prerequisite of that must be that the child is actually home too. I'm sorry but I do not see how he can justify working part time, at best, and not doing a thing the rest of the day such as laundry or yard work. I find it admirable that he wants to be involved with your daughter's soccer team but that's all I find to be admirable about him.
> 
> Really the question comes down to --- What frightens you the most? Being in a loveless, stressful marriage for the sake of having someone around or being alone with the great possiblity of finding success in a new business and happiness?
> 
> ...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why are you wasting money on a therapist if you're not not going to listen to her? Why are you asking for advice if you're just going to continue rationalizing your fears? 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

You are right....but in all fairness...I just started with a new therapist a few weeks ago and I just wanted to make sure I got some random, objective opinions...here. I think it's helpful...to make me feel justified in my thoughts.

And maybe you are right...maybe I'm just making excuses for him..... 

I may need to just rip the bandaid


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you want to stay, then you have to set some ground rules about his fair share of the burden. Tell him you are thinking of leaving if things don't improve. He needs to know so he'll have a chance to step up.

Get a posterboard and write out all the things that have to be done and dole them out to whomever can and will do them. Knowing for sure what each of you are expected to do will reduce the resentment and stress.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your situation is so close to poster mega1's situation. It's sad. The only difference is she has a son - oh, wait - you have a son too:

"Pays a lawn crew. And watches our son from 4pm til his 8pm bedtime."

You can continue to wring your hands or you can do something to actually change your situation.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, I will have you know.... I just told my husband that we are through. He is angry ....in denial....and claiming that I am ruining our child's life. I am trying to stay strong.

I have needed to have the strength. It's not going to be easy. But, I did it. 

I feel free...and yet...completely out of sorts... as if I'm in a cloud of denial.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Well, I will have you know..". 

WTH? No need to get your feathers ruffled, mega1. We aren't your parents so no need to show US.

I wish you well; but, frankly, do expect to see you posting that you just couldn't go through with it and he promises to do better, blah, blah, blah.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

No no. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way. I meant that in a proud.. I did it kind of way. Seriously I'm sorry if that came off any other way. 




Blondilocks said:


> "Well, I will have you know..".
> 
> WTH? No need to get your feathers ruffled, mega1. We aren't your parents so no need to show US.
> 
> I wish you well; but, frankly, do expect to see you posting that you just couldn't go through with it and he promises to do better, blah, blah, blah.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow. That was fast. What you should really do at this point is lay out what it would take for him to get to stay. Let him see it in writing, we can help, and give a timeline. Like "I'm setting this up for taking place on June 1 and for me to change my mind, this is what I'd have to see..."


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

And in the meantime... do your homework. You don't have to tell him what and how you are looking into divorce.... you just do this quietly on YOUR behalf. If you can't afford to see an attorney, call a few and get whatever "free consultations" that you can. Also, search online about separation and divorce in your state. Find out about "legal separation" and child custody and visitation. KNOW what you are getting into, it won't be so scary that way and he won't be able to intimidate you.

The point is that knowledge is power, and you need some power. He is probably going to try telling you how this is or isn't going to work. But ya know...if he isn't participating in the marriage, then he doesn't get to call the shots in the breakup either! 

Copy all the tax papers you can find....plus any titles, contracts, bank accounts, etc... Just in case it gets into the mine/yours tug of war. 

Also, keep in mind....that how you face this is an indication of how your child will face it. If you freak out or melt down, kids will too. Show your kids a strong woman, who is making these changes with plenty of logic, planning and consideration.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, what makes me nervous....is that I will lose my nerve and back off again. He is a pro at making things better very, very quickly. 

That's hard for me... I feel so much compassion and sympathy and I end up going right back into the same pattern.

At the end of the day -- I don't know if I could even give him a list. Even if he got a job....or tried being intimate with me...I don't think it would make things that much better. I just feel stuck in this marriage. I'm scared to leave and that makes THAT PART very difficult...but I just can't seem to feel "happy" in this marriage. We don't laugh....and I just seem to see so much negative in him. 

THAT is another problem. Maybe it's just ME? But, I seem to see all the negative in him. I am not his biggest proponent....I am constantly playing that song in my head..."he's negative, he looks weak, he can't do anything right"....that's NOT healthy...but it's what I have constantly running through my mind. 

Can that change? If it could...my marriage could be saved..IF he changed too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The list is so that he is preoccupied with fulfilling the list, and that it takes time, and that gives you time to see this through. We can help with the list. It will include some things he probably won't want to do. So if he DOES do them, well, that will be great cos you'll see he really loves you and just needed a swift kick in the rear.

The list will have to include things like reading His Needs Her Needs together with you every night until it's done. Then filling out the LB and EN questionnaires and sharing the information. Then proposing steps to fix those things on the questionnaires. Then giving a timeline by which those things have to be fixed. Then getting and arranging for a therapist and then faithfully attending said therapist. Then agreeing on a list of things he must agree to do around the house from now on. Stuff like this. You tell him it must be real, consistent change and you're setting a deadline for it to be done, at which time you'll be filing.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, things are so "hot" or "cold" with us....especially after I laid that on bomb on him today...that it will be odd to propose this...without feeling really vulnerable...and having some hope. 

I also know that he's going to tell me I'm treating him like a child...if I dictate a list. But, I guess it doesn't matter...

One thing we always said we would do and we never really have ..is pray in bed at night. We never have. And I know that If I start trying...I will start praying for this to work out and it WOULD work ...for a bit....but I'd be right back here in a few months complaining again. I just need to rip the bandaid...

And I'm about to get enough cash to escape my financial disaster (not the lotto ..but enough to pay my rent/bills/sitter etc for a year on my own...). I guess I just KNOW that if I cave in ....I will get the money and it will become our community property....and it will all be gone in a matter of weeks.

So, the list -- reading that book together... 

getting his finances in order.. and is it unreasonable to expect that he finds a way to GUARANTEE a check of at least 2k gross a month? (30 day cycle)..if he wants to continue staying home. He does get that kind of money...just not consistently.

Demand that we see a financial planner?


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

You said earlier that you are afraid to be alone.you work long hours and when you are home with him he don't talk to you and doesn't do anything else with you.sounds like you are already alone.dump him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you split up, where is your child going to be while you're working nights?


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Yep that's my biggest fear. I work until 10pm. Husband is home so he will automatically go for custody. It has handicapped me in a major way. 




turnera said:


> If you split up, where is your child going to be while you're working nights?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then I would set long-range goals for splitting up to allow you time to find a job where you're not working the hours your child is out of school.


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## Psych (Aug 26, 2013)

Staying in a situation that doesn't make you happy is no way to live. From what you've stated... Little sex... Arguments... Possible past abuse..... No communication.... My goodness the list is just the tip of the iceberg isn't it? Glad you are making a change. Here are some quotes that may help keep you focused and inspired. Good luck and stay strong. 

"Our lives improve only when we take chances—and the first and most difficult risk we can take is to be honest with ourselves.”
ALDOUS HUXLEY

“There is a difference between interest and commitment. When you’re interested in doing something, you do it only when it’s convenient. When you’re committed to something, you accept no excuses, only results."
KEN BLANCHARD

“Nothing changes until you do.”
Unknown

"The hard way is the right way."
John Alves


"If you want your life to be a magnificent story, then begin by realizing that you are the author and everyday you have the opportunity to write a new page. "
Mark Houla


"A dream is not something that you wake up from, but something that wakes you up."
Charlie Hedges


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

These are excellent quotes and truly things I need to understand and put into action.

As for my work hours....I don't see them changing without my salary changing significantly. It's my career....and the top of the pay grade...works those kinds of hours in my career.

So...I would probably have to give up my career to change hours ....hence I've stay in the marriage to protect our child...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Bullshyte. You're not staying to protect your child. You're staying to protect your money.

Your daughter will only be a child once. Who she becomes for the rest of her life will depend on her TIME with you. She doesn't want your money. She wants time with you. She NEEDS time with you.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Btw, is this Mega1?

C
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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

No that's not true. Honestly. I started this post because I may be about to get money that will help us out of our debt. But I'm STILL having trouble leaving. That means it's not about the money. I'm scared what it will do to our family and our child. Since I have such an awful schedule ... For a young child... I feel terrified about the whole ordeal. 

I mean.. If you are a mom. And you support your family. And you work 12:30 to 10:30 pm m thru fri. ... What would YOU do? 

You could say quit... But it is also my career which I've worked very very hard to build. It has been my life for 14 years. It would involve taking a huge step back. 

Or I could just stay in marriage to protect the family unit and allow dad to be at home all the time and I'll continue to work my life away. HE will never step up and make enough to support us and allow me to have a better schedule. He just won't. That I know. 




turnera said:


> Bullshyte. You're not staying to protect your child. You're staying to protect your money.
> 
> Your daughter will only be a child once. Who she becomes for the rest of her life will depend on her TIME with you. She doesn't want your money. She wants time with you. She NEEDS time with you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Personally, I would never accept a night job in the first place if I had kids in the house. Those kids are MY JOB, my REAL job, until they are grown and out of the house. That was a commitment I made by getting pregnant in the first place. Choosing a job over 250 nights every year for a child's life, when you COULD be working some other job - and it sounds like you have options at your level - I just would never do it. That child is my first responsibility and I'd downsize to a smaller place and an older car to be able to do it, until that kid is at least 16 or 17 (and then they'll have other stuff to do anyway).

Have you even looked into options, talked to your company about them?


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

I understand that and I can see what you mean. I could talk to them about other options. It never seemed as bad until I started considering leaving my husband. 

I am just so up in the air. 




turnera said:


> Personally, I would never accept a night job in the first place if I had kids in the house. Those kids are MY JOB, my REAL job, until they are grown and out of the house. That was a commitment I made by getting pregnant in the first place. Choosing a job over 250 nights every year for a child's life, when you COULD be working some other job - and it sounds like you have options at your level - I just would never do it. That child is my first responsibility and I'd downsize to a smaller place and an older car to be able to do it, until that kid is at least 16 or 17 (and then they'll have other stuff to do anyway).
> 
> Have you even looked into options, talked to your company about them?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You don't have to decide anything right now. Like I said, IIWY, I would come up with that list of your expectations, get him to take on more chores, start getting your ducks in a row, talk to your company (they won't want to lose you and should be willing to work with you), and make long-range plans. But start being more demanding of what your husband has to do, first and foremost.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your husband is dysfunctional. If there is a good person inside who needs to be nurtured, he needs tough love. You need to go to MC. Explain what is not happening and why. He has to go to IC to work out why he is not seeing the same world as you. You can set the divorce in motion while he is on probation.

He needs to improve. People like your husband need at least three things.

1) Boundaries
2) Scary deadlines
3) Mentors whom them trust and who motivate them to have hope

Your husband may want sex with you. Ask him. If you have good sex, it may motivate his lazy butt. 

Is he lazy or simple rebellious?

What does he does he do well?

You cannot be his boss.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

What is frustrating to see is that you are so far down the bunny hole of victim mentality all you've been doing is making excuses for why you're in the situation you find yourself (money issues/career issues/childcare issues).

You need to stop wallowing and start making decisions...develop a plan for decisions (cutting back living expenses/altering job hours/finding a new job/ daycare options)... and then take action in executing the plan.

How do you problem solve at work? Apply it to your personal life.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

He is very good at his profession (photographer). He doesn't have any other hobbies. Last therapist suggested he get some. He says it's just not him. He has very few friends. Never goes out or does anything unless with us. He does not work out with me. 

So motivating him is not easy whatsoever. 

As for giving him a list of things. That did not go well. He said that he doesn't like being treated like a child.  




LongWalk said:


> Your husband is dysfunctional. If there is a good person inside who needs to be nurtured, he needs tough love. You need to go to MC. Explain what is not happening and why. He has to go to IC to work out why he is not seeing the same world as you. You can set the divorce in motion while he is on probation.
> 
> He needs to improve. People like your husband need at least three things.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do it again. And when he says he doesn't like being treated like a child, reply "Then start acting like an adult and take care of your responsibilities. Until then, here's the list of what needs to be done."


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

That won't end well. But honestly at this point... What's it matter. I just need to get thicker skin. 

He's very stubborn and always needs to be right. In fact in front of his father... Was being passive aggressive yesterday about where I should park the car. That was before I even entertained "the talk" with him. 





turnera said:


> Do it again. And when he says he doesn't like being treated like a child, reply "Then start acting like an adult and take care of your responsibilities. Until then, here's the list of what needs to be done."


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

renee5555 said:


> I just need to get thicker skin.


This pretty much sums up your whole problem. So what if he gets mad? It's VERY very typical for women to back down because dysfunctional men use anger to get what they want. Educate yourself. Start with The Dance Of Anger, which will help you get in the mood of saying no, of protecting your time and your space. It's highly recommended by therapists. 

Is he controlling? Demanding? You haven't really said much about him.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

He's controlling when something impacts him. When he wants his way he will do whatever he can to get it. But because I'm not around much except for dinner breaks ... We don't really talk or have those moments. The only time is when I'm driving child to school in the am... He comes too. And he tells me how to drive. Where to park. Etc. which direction I should turn if I go a different way. 

I pretty much say nothing. I don't fight. It's not worth it. And children should not see anger. 
I asked him to get a secure job and he found every reason not to take it. He gets tough when I bring those things up. 

He is just passive aggressive. And I don't do well with conflict. 

He screwed up and offended a woman we were working with recently. It was unintentional but he completely insulted her. I told him later on that he should apologize. He didn't. And then got mad at me for picking at him. The girl completely went off on him... And he did not apologize. He said he just made sure he was extra nice to her after it happened. 






turnera said:


> This pretty much sums up your whole problem. So what if he gets mad? It's VERY very typical for women to back down because dysfunctional men use anger to get what they want. Educate yourself. Start with The Dance Of Anger, which will help you get in the mood of saying no, of protecting your time and your space. It's highly recommended by therapists.
> 
> Is he controlling? Demanding? You haven't really said much about him.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

PBear said:


> Btw, is this Mega1?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it isn't, there's an unfortunate doppelganger on this forum who is leading the same miserable life with the same miserable user and having the exact same miserable experiences.

She (both) need to buy, borrow, rent or steal a spine. Maybe then she can admit to changing her user name to gather more sympathy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You need to stop allowing him to ride in the car with you. "Honey, the nitpicking is killing my soul so please stay home this morning."


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe you need to read this book first:
Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft | 9780425191651 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

IF I said the nitpicking was killing my soul...he would use some passive aggressive response....I could easily predict... 

"Well, I'm sorry I'm not good enough to even ride in the car with you... ha ha" 

Or 

"Well, Excuse me for trying to help...and make it easier to get child to school...I won't try that anymore." 

That is the typical biting I get back...

And Yes..I've read that book. It's good ..therapist last year...suggested it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

renee5555 said:


> IF I said the nitpicking was killing my soul...he would use some passive aggressive response....I could easily predict...
> 
> "Well, I'm sorry I'm not good enough to even ride in the car with you... ha ha"


'You're right, dear, you're not. Not if you criticize me. I don't associate with other people who tear me down, either. See you when I get back.'



renee5555 said:


> "Well, Excuse me for trying to help...and make it easier to get child to school...I won't try that anymore."


"Good. I'm quite capable of getting her to school on my own and I enjoy it. See you when I get back."

You see what's going on, right? His passive aggressive bullshyte has you triggering and throwing up all over yourself all day long, just the way he likes it. 

So you read Why Does He Do That? At the bequest of your IC? Then there's no question in my mind that you need to stop kissing his ass. He'll never change. Stop reacting to him. He's the mailman now. No more courtesy or attention from you than the mailman. Start moving on that plan.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Once I saw the threatened suicide comment that told me most of what I need to know. He manipulates you. Period. Don't use your daughter as an excuse to tolerate bad behavior.
Tell him you want to separate, then get him on a recording threatening suicide. Then when he asks for custody play it for the judge.
When he tells you he wants alimony, tell him of course he does because he's a lazy piece of.sh!t. 
You've really got to grow a spine and play hardball with someone like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, in all honesty...I went back and even reviewed that book after you mentioned it...and I recognized that my DH's behavior isn't nearly as bad as those portrayed in the book. He obviously has his manipulation tactics....but it's not to that level.

He USED to tell me what I should wear...suggest I get plastic surgery....insist on texting me ANY time I left the house.... insist that I avoid going out with friends....he was bad. 

But after reviewing that book...I see that he's improved a lot.
He no doesn't really comment on my clothing. He doesn't talk about my appearance very frequently.... He has cut down on the number of text messages his hits me with . THAT is still high....And suggests I go out with my girlfriends all the time.

It's interesting...It's like he's seen his own playbook...and knows how to reel me back in. 

What's really most concerning now..is that we are never together except in the mornings before work and we don't really speak. He doesn't come work out with me ...(he has been invited). I come home for dinner ...on my break and he knows I only have 20 or 30 minutes and he doesn't have food prepared or anything...even if I text him to tell him I'm on my way.

We just don't seem to care. I think HE cares about ME.... I do. In his own way. But, I don't think I care enough about him. (sadly).

I see my child as the most important thing to me....and that level of concern doesn't even come close to my DH.

He often tells me about ailments that mysteriously surface and I don't even give it the time of day. I'm thinking "here we go again"....

Someone suggested I try to entice him with s*x as a reward. I don't want that with him anymore....Somehow, if I did that ..I would feel like everything was back to "okay" and it's not....in my head. 

He just found out his uncle in another state is dying of cancer. He didn't call him. He just started talking about his funeral. It's in another state and all he could think of...is will I have to go to that? 

But, the apple doesn't fall from the tree. His mother hasn't visited us in 3 years. She doesn't care to see her grandchildren...one of whom is having a first Communion this weekend. His dad came...but his mom said she was too busy to get away... 

That's not normal, right?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP:

-- have you discussed the financial windfall with a lawyer? can the receipt/payment of the money be delayed so that you're not under so much pressure from that??

-- you say he's a very good photographer. if he wanted to would he be able to get a lot more work during the week? if he was motivated to do it?

-- what would be so bad about a shared custody or joint custody arrangement? sounds like you need him to take care of your daughter after 4PM during the week.

-- have you ever loved him? were there good years with him? what were they like?


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Yes I believe I could delay the money. It's not THAT much. It's about half of my annual salary. But it will help me survive...and get a nanny to help me...so I could do JOINT custody. Yes, I would want that...and I have the ability to go in earlier in the day...get home by 6:45 and stay home until 8pm....I am hopeful that could help me spend "bed time" preparation with my child... And the sitter to could just wait there until I get back at 10:30. 

A lot of working parents don't get home until dinner time anyway...so that could help ease this through...

Were there ever good times? Yes, I look back and I had good times with him...to his defense..he hasn't changed much. But, I've grown up. I wanted him to love me so badly...I did ANYTHING for him. I would work super hard to get him a brand new camera for Valentines day...or do something for him "just because"...I did SO MUCH for him....but he never did anything for me. ...except make me dinner or something. He would give me a vacuum for Christmas (when I sweetly hinted on a new purse or something)...or he actually took me to a jewelry store one year and had me pick out something and then suggested I apply for credit. I just got tired of feeling so wasted....

So ...I am resentful. I am full of it...and I just can't seem to get past it ....I keep seeing all those times in my head...when I look at him.

Although...I just revisited the part of the book on manipulation....THAT is for sure...still alive and well. There's a part where the author uses a case study about a woman who wants to change her schedule and go back to school etc...and how her husband avoids it and says that they can't possibly afford it. THAT IS MY DH Mainly because he won't make any extra effort.

Also the idea that he twists things to make them seem like MY idea ...after he "helped me" understand why my idea was SO BAD in the first place....THAT IS MY DH. Classic


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yep, time to leave. You deserve better.


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## renee5555 (Mar 25, 2014)

Like the book describes...it's very hard for a woman like me to feel confident about things...that are very plain as day to those I describe the situation.... 

The problem is this is a very hit or miss thing. We NEVER really fight. I never question him....I just go with the flow. He does too... he just stays quiet. So it would take me holding his feet to the fire on something...to make these things happen. 

So, for example, what could I do tonight and request of him ...tonight...that would be fair and decent... I want to use this as a way to test his response...and how much he may or may not have changed.

I could ask him to help support my income so that I can get home in the evening (he will think we are still staying together).

I would need for him to come up with an extra 50k a year...to do that. What would be a normal typical response from a loving husband?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

renee5555 said:


> So it would take me holding his feet to the fire on something...to make these things happen.


No, you're looking at it wrong. You don't have to get HIM to do ANYTHING. That's the thing that my IC took years to pound into my head. You HAVE TO stop putting yourself in a position to need anything from him. As long as you need something, he has the power. You tell him what you want or need and then if he chooses not to do it, you shrug it off and take care of it anyway. My IC actually gave me the phone number to a contractor to get the things done in my house that my H never took care of in 10 years. Boundaries and consequences. 



renee5555 said:


> So, for example, what could I do tonight and request of him ...tonight...that would be fair and decent... I want to use this as a way to test his response...and how much he may or may not have changed.
> 
> I could ask him to help support my income so that I can get home in the evening (he will think we are still staying together).
> 
> I would need for him to come up with an extra 50k a year...to do that. What would be a normal typical response from a loving husband?


A loving husband would never put you in the position of providing for the family in the first place.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

renee5555 said:


> I have a tough marriage. And I'm trying to figure out if I should stay or go. Married 13 years. *1 daughter. She's 7. * I am the breadwinner.





renee5555 said:


> I should also say he still doesn't do lawn work and I just had to hire a housekeeper because our place was a wreck. We have family coming in... I'm working non stop and the place was a disaster. So, he stays home ... Doesn't clean much. Barely does laundry. Pays a lawn crew. *And watches our son from 4pm til his 8pm bedtime.*


Daughter or son? 

Your story reminds me of another poster and some of the advice she received on her threads might be helpful: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/142098-divorce-worthy.html


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## Boricha (Sep 29, 2013)

:iagree:


On another thread you recently started, you had a son who is 8. In this thread you state that your husband might have physically abused your "daughter" but since your husband said that it was an accident, you weren't sure. 

The story doesn't make sense.


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

the reasons you gave for staying sound more like reasons for leaving.he can ask for alimony does not mean the judge will give it to him,especially if he is able to work.he sounds lazy and got used to you taking care of him.I am old school,my dad told me if a man can work he should work to support his family.(no offense to working ladies).it sounds like your family would be better off if he worked and you had two checks coming in.best of luck in your decision.


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

It's not always easy to be a single mom. I know because I am one. 

Live apart for a couple of weeks and see how you would juggle taking care of your child, paying for a babysitter and doing all the chores by yourself while working the odd hours that you do. Add to that list, the number of hours you need to spend helping your child with homework. How would you do that if you work until 10:30 p.m.? 

You may dream of hitting it big with your business venture and having all the money to yourself so that you can spend it however you want without having to share it. If this comes true, and you can afford to hire someone to take care of teaching your child and all the housework, then you will have gotten what you wanted. But, what if it doesn't happen that way? How old are you now? A lot of women overestimate their ability to find someone better than their husbands. 

The bottom line is that you don't respect him anymore because he doesn't make enough money, you are withholding sex because you lost respect for him and now you think that you may be superior to him because you may be able to make more money, and you think that his time taking care of your child while you work until 10:30 p.m. Monday through Friday is inconsequential in terms of contribution to the family. Withholding sex and losing respect for your husband will ruin any marriage. 

If I were you, I would think about what you can do to regain respect for him. Perhaps if you lived like a single mom for a couple of weeks, you would regain respect for the things your husband does that help you to be able to work until 10 p.m. and chase your business aspirations.


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