# I need help really, really bad.



## Larry2626

I'm 52 years old, have been married for 30 years and have 4 kids (8,10,12 & 14). Never cheated on my wife once ever. Lied to her about stopping smoking many times, stare at attractive women once in a while, but never, ever touched. My wife has been home many years raising our kids while I worked. She recently got a job as a school crossing guard, and all of a sudden has developed a social life again.
Yesterday, she dropped the bomb shell on me. She met a guy last September, started off casually with coffee at the diner for 4-5 weeks, a few days a week. Last get together, they jumped in his truck took a ride. Kissing, touching led to unprotected sex. She says she cried as soon as they got intimate and stopped doing it very quickly, at which point the guy yelled at her "why'd you start something you couldn't finish?". He had giver her a TracPhone which she eventually gave back so they could call each other and set up meetings without me knowing about it. Since this ended back end of last year, he disappeared. Can't find him by name, and he was on Long Island for work and had North Carolina plates. Said he loved her and wanted her to leave me. Things haven't always been good with us, normal marriage issues over the years, but never like this. She says this is the first and only time she's ever been with another guy since she met me. To make things worse, she now tested positive for Herpes 2, which I got tested for this morning and am awaiting results.
I don't have any friends to talk to about this, and have a lot of mixed emotions. Don't know if I'm more mad at the picture in my mind of them having sex in the back of his Denali, or the fact that she now has a disease she may have given me. It disgusts me to picture her naked with another guy, and all the things that led up to them getting physical that day. Also mad that I may never be able to have sex with her again because of the Herpes, and can't picture myself getting intimate with her, while I'll picture them together in my mind. This whole thing really rots. I feel like if I find him I'll kill him. I'm mad, embarrassed, grossed out, depressed and a little numb. When she told me yesterday in tears, I held her close and told her people make mistakes and as long as you learn from them we can work it out. By the time I got home from work, I was very angry, took my wedding ring off, and couldn't sleep at all last night, again picturing my wife naked, touching a strange guy is killing me.
Please help with some practical advice, as my life as I knew it just fell apart.
Thanks,
Larry


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## Tall Average Guy

I would ask to one of the moderators to have this moved to the Coping with Infidelity forum. You will get much better advice there. 

Your emotions are normal. You have gone through a traumatic event. Read in the CWI of some of the steps you and she need to take to have a chance to tackle this.


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## Larry2626

Thanks. Just joined the site and don't know how to contact a Moderator to have the thread moved.


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## deejov

Yikes.
I'm sorry to hear you are here.

My stbxh also contracted herpes from a stranger encounter... I've been tested 3 times now and I'm okay. No sign of it, or any antibodies. That said, I am also one of the lesser population that has never had a cold sore. (that throws off the test). So I don't have herpes 1 or 2. But you can have a blood test done again in 3 months just to be sure. Hoping all goes well for you 

I did a lot of reading, and I don't personally believe my stbxh that it was just a one time encounter, and only oral like he said. And I believe he had it for a long time before telling me, which is why he stopped having sex for a year before this happened. 

But that's part of what we call trickle truth. You may not know the whole story. Yet. Or maybe never. 

As for the cheating... that's a long road, and many here have been through it all. You may change your mind several times about your future, and that's okay. I hope you are able to find some help here.


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## Larry2626

Right now I just feel plain sick. I don't even want to talk to her. We had a great sex life since the beginning. Its weird picturing her 'doing it' with another guy. I always thought that was just for us. Now that she's been with another guy, I can't imagine it ever being the same again. She claims she's not a "cheap ****", and I asked her, well what kind of **** are you then? In my mind, that's the worst thing anyone can do to another person. Also, my guess is if she didn't see sores "down there" and got tested, she never would have told me about her encounter. After all, it happened in September, and she just told me about it yesterday. As a matter of fact, the night before, she did 'oral' but wouldn't let me touch her down there, probably because she was waiting for the results. Even if she had a sneaking suspicion she had something, why "do" me the night before, and maybe transmit it to me. But it goes way deeper than that. I just can't (but can) picture her helping him to get it up, and dropping her drawers in the back of his truck. Can't get the visual out of my mind no matter how hard I try. Wondering was he any good; was she comparing him to me? Was she wearing her wedding ring? All this and more keeps swirling around my head. She says as soon as they started doing it, she cried and said she loved me too much to keep going, so he pulled right out. Guess that split second was enough to give her a nice going away present. What the hell did she expect when she first got into his truck and went for a ride anyway? How did she come home afterwards and keep a straight face? Did we have sex that same night? Certainly many times since. I'm ripped apart and don't know what to do.


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## SadSamIAm

Rocketman said:


> I'm 52 years old, have been married for 30 years and have 4 kids (8,10,12 & 14). Never cheated on my wife once ever. Lied to her about stopping smoking many times, stare at attractive women once in a while, but never, ever touched. My wife has been home many years raising our kids while I worked. She recently got a job as a school crossing guard, and all of a sudden has developed a social life again.
> Yesterday, she dropped the bomb shell on me. She met a guy last September, started off casually with coffee at the diner for 4-5 weeks, a few days a week. Last get together, they jumped in his truck took a ride. Kissing, touching led to unprotected sex. She says she cried as soon as they got intimate and stopped doing it very quickly, at which point the guy yelled at her "why'd you start something you couldn't finish?". He had giver her a TracPhone which she eventually gave back so they could call each other and set up meetings without me knowing about it. Since this ended back end of last year, he disappeared. Can't find him by name, and he was on Long Island for work and had North Carolina plates. Said he loved her and wanted her to leave me. Things haven't always been good with us, normal marriage issues over the years, but never like this. She says this is the first and only time she's ever been with another guy since she met me. To make things worse, she now tested positive for Herpes 2, which I got tested for this morning and am awaiting results.
> I don't have any friends to talk to about this, and have a lot of mixed emotions. Don't know if I'm more mad at the picture in my mind of them having sex in the back of his Denali, or the fact that she now has a disease she may have given me. It disgusts me to picture her naked with another guy, and all the things that led up to them getting physical that day. Also mad that I may never be able to have sex with her again because of the Herpes, and can't picture myself getting intimate with her, while I'll picture them together in my mind. This whole thing really rots. I feel like if I find him I'll kill him. I'm mad, embarrassed, grossed out, depressed and a little numb. When she told me yesterday in tears, I held her close and told her people make mistakes and as long as you learn from them we can work it out. By the time I got home from work, I was very angry, took my wedding ring off, and couldn't sleep at all last night, again picturing my wife naked, touching a strange guy is killing me.
> Please help with some practical advice, as my life as I knew it just fell apart.
> Thanks,
> Larry


I really don't think it is a good idea to tell your wife that 'people make mistakes, we will get through it'.

You are not accepting what has actually happened. She cheated on you. She needs to feel the gravity of her actions. Letting her off this easy, is pretty much giving her a free pass to do it again.

I would recommend a few things that might include:

separation for a period of time 
individual counseling for her
marriage counseling for you
complete transparency including passwords to email, phone etc.

Cheating is something that will change your relationship forever. It will never go away (just like the herpes).


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Wow! I'm truly sorry for what happened. I don't have any advice for you, but infidelity is my number #1 deal breaker along with abuse of any kind. I had it happen to me with my first marriage. Except I was 2 years into my marriage when I found out. It wasn't with one woman, but several. I never caught anything permanent from him, just temporary. I was purely disgusted.

I really can't imagine 30 years into a marriage and having this happen. I feel just awful for you. I do believe your wife would of kept it hidden and not tell you if it were not for the herpes. This man knew he had it and purposely spreads to other women. It's absolutely sick. I could never forgive something like this. If you can get through this, your much stronger then I. I am very firm about our boundaries, which is not much. Good luck!


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## Navygirl

This is awful, I am so sorry. I completely understand why you held her and told it would be ok, its because you love her and that is what you are used to doing when she is upset. Now you are a mess though. I would be too. If there is any hope of saving your marriage, if that is truely what you want, then she needs to be willing to do whatever it takes to make you trust her again. The saying once a cheater, always a cheater, is not too far off the truth. It is a tough cycle to break. Your trust in her will never be the same, and she will get frustrated with the constant distrust and suspicion from you. You will need to try MC for a while, this is not something that should be handled on your own. Both of you need to be ready for alot of work ahead of you. If you are not willing to put this behind you, and she is not willing to do whatever it takes to earn your trust back, then its probably over. I am so sorry.


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## anchorwatch

Somthing's not right. Meetings, dinners, throw away phone, that's long term not a month, And they only did it once, he entered once and pulled out? She's sparing your feelings. 

Post on the copping with infidelity area. You'll get good advice there, on what to do. 

Don't make any life changing decisions while your emotions all over the place. Good luck.


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## AFEH

I Rocketman, click on the triangle to the left/bottom of your post. This will send a message to the Mods. Ask them to move your post to the CWI forum.

There are seriously good people there who will be of great help to you.


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## badbane

hi i am so sorry to hear your story. questions i have is 1 have you really looked into their history. 2 this was not a short term encounter. burner phones usually come in after there is suspicion from you. have you read the newbie thread and understand what trickle truth is? 3. have you read no more mister nice guy? if not then right now for yoir sanity you don't need to be nice. you need the truth. " we all make mistakes" is called rug sweeping and will not get you past this. 4. do you want to save you marriage and are willing to contract a disease, or have a sexless marriage? be honest here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonymouskitty

Sorry about your situation RocketMan a couple of deep breaths now, read this http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

and this
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33641-tip-recently-betrayed-see-your-doctor.html

Know that your ordeal is just beginning and be warned that a few more skeletons may come tumbling out in the next couple of days or weeks so be prepared

The reasons for the affair don't matter just yet, let all the shock sink in first mate.

But understand one thing

THE AFFAIR WAS NOT YOUR FAULT 

repeat that till its sunk into your brain

Do Not Say I FORGIVE YOU just yet

and if possible get away from the house for a few days


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## Kallan Pavithran

she did it only once, that too she cried and said NO, BULL SH!T, it was definitely more than once, its the way cheaters downplay. 
Ask her to come clean completely. You know that she only confessed because she got an STD, she know that she may have given it to you and she is going to get caught. 

Ask her for a separation and take your on time to decide what you want R or D


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## survivorwife

Rocketman said:


> . She says as soon as they started doing it, she cried and said she loved me too much to keep going, so he pulled right out. Guess that split second was enough to give her a nice going away present. What the hell did she expect when she first got into his truck and went for a ride anyway? How did she come home afterwards and keep a straight face? Did we have sex that same night? Certainly many times since. I'm ripped apart and don't know what to do.


Trickle Truth. Brought her a phone too. Hmmmm

I'm so sorry you are going through this mess. Welcome to the club that NOBODY wants to be a member of. We are here for you. I can tell you this much. You don't know the whole truth yet, my friend. Please read the newbie information that someone has linked for you. It will give you insight into what to expect and what to do. Keep posting here. It really helps to vent.


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## Larry2626

(1) There's no way I can look into their history. My wife as a crossing guard works from 7-9am. Then comes home. Then goes back from 2-4pm. Sometimes she says she got home late because she stopped to go shopping and came home with no bags and had no explanation. She got tons of cell calls on her own phone with "Private Caller" and said it was from work.

(2) I understand trickle truth. Now at this point, why not lay it on the line? How much worse can it get?

(3) Right now I need to be calm and not make any rash decisions.

(4) I think I want to save my marriage, although I'm not sure if it is a real marriage without sex, although I'm sure others with physical issues would disagree, as long as there's love?


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## Cyber Cheating Stinks

Rocketman said:


> I don't have any friends to talk to about this, and have a lot of mixed emotions. Don't know if I'm more mad at the picture in my mind of them having sex in the back of his Denali, or the fact that she now has a disease she may have given me.


Now you have good friends to talk to with good, solid advice. We have all been through everything you described. It helps to vent. 

The images and pain fade a little (been 6 months for me). The anger dissipates. Get help from a professional. Be honest with your spouse and how you are feeling, don't spare her feelings. You will persevere.


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## anonymouskitty

Does she have an Iphone? if so sync it to the computer and you'dd be able to recover all her text messages

http://images.wondershare.com/images/pdf-files/iphone-sms-recovery.pdf

If not a cellphone spyware would be a nice asset

Voice Activate Recorders(VARs)
secure one firmly under the driver's seat of her car
and one near the telephone

A gps on her car should let you know where she is and at what time unless she finds out(highly unlikely) 

check the odometer and record the miles logged in and compare it with the distance between home and work

If she did admit the affair I think you have a better chance at Reconciliation than if you had stumbled upon it on your own


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## LostWifeCrushed

Rocketman said:


> (1) There's no way I can look into their history. My wife as a crossing guard works from 7-9am. Then comes home. Then goes back from 2-4pm. Sometimes she says she got home late because she stopped to go shopping and came home with no bags and had no explanation. She got tons of cell calls on her own phone with "Private Caller" and said it was from work.
> 
> (2) I understand trickle truth. Nut at this point, why not lay it on the line? How much worse can it get?
> 
> (3) Right now I need to be calm and not make anmy rash decisions.
> 
> (4) I think I want to save my marriage, although I'm not sure if it is a real marriage without sex, although I'm sure others with physical issues would disagree, as long as there's love?


You are in shock.

Would you feel so ready to reconcile if you had contracted HIV from her betrayal? This is serious stuff. This is your life. And yes, you DO need more than love. You also need a wife you can trust.

Give yourself time. How much worse could it get? A lot. Your number one job now is to protect yourself til you are ready to deal with this. She does not have your best interest at heart, unfortunately, so you have to.

Follow up with your doctor. Please take care of yourself.


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## Gabriel

Rocketman said:


> (1) There's no way I can look into their history. My wife as a crossing guard works from 7-9am. Then comes home. Then goes back from 2-4pm. Sometimes she says she got home late because she stopped to go shopping and came home with no bags and had no explanation. She got tons of cell calls on her own phone with "Private Caller" and said it was from work.
> 
> (2) I understand trickle truth. Nut at this point, why not lay it on the line? How much worse can it get?
> 
> (3) Right now I need to be calm and not make anmy rash decisions.
> 
> (4) I think I want to save my marriage, although I'm not sure if it is a real marriage without sex, although I'm sure others with physical issues would disagree, as long as there's love?


I am so sorry Rocket - this sucks. But you have to know deep down this wasn't a quick in, cry, quick out only situation. The odds of getting an STD from that quick an exchange seems low (but ask a doctor). She just began confessing yesterday, she's only told you the ABSOLUTE BARE MINIMUM to make the story jive with having the STD. If she really wanted to confess, she would have done it prior to getting the STD. She was painted into a corner. Had that not happened, she'd still be having sex with him. Promise.

There is way more to this brother. Chalk it.


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## Complexity

Seeing as she's had no other man before you, the mind movies and the icky factor will be even harder to deal with. Like others have said, there's alot of trickle truthing here.


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## lordmayhem

OM bought her a burner phone to keep the affair secret and they had car sex where she stopped it immediately? Yeah, right. Like everyone has said: Trickle Truth.










You don't just go from working a couple of hours a day as a crossing guard to banging some guy from out of state in his car. There's more to this and you know it.

Where is this burner/trac phone now? Do you have it?


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## Larry2626

She just sent me a text saying I know I screwed up your life but you're making the picture uglier than it was and making it hurt more.
She said she gave the phone back right after it happened. Adn doesn't remember the number he called her from, nor the number she called him at.


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## LostWifeCrushed

Rocketman said:


> She just sent me a text saying I know I screwed up your life but you're making the picture uglier than it was and making it hurt more.
> She said she gave the phone back right after it happened. Adn doesn't remember the number he called her from, nor the number she called him at.


Wow. Sounds like a bunch of poo. You don't actually believe this, do you?


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## survivorwife

Rocketman said:


> She just sent me a text saying I know I screwed up your life but you're making the picture uglier than it was and making it hurt more.
> She said she gave the phone back right after it happened. Adn doesn't remember the number he called her from, nor the number she called him at.


Blame shifting. A diversionary tactic. How can the picture be any uglier "than it was"? Think about it for a second. Does she remember his name? Where is he from? Surely she is able to identify the man she cheated with. And she should tell you. All of it. No "trickles".


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## Acabado

Coffe 4-5 days a week, september - december, secret phone, wanted to leave you for him, "failed" ONS, herpes, forced to confess... and she doesn't know his name/adress? It's in the cheaters handbook page 2; a big pile of horsehsh!t. She's lying, tell her to come clean once for all, to write down the whole story and tell her you want her to pass a *polygraph*. Also OM's identity.
To start R you need to demand the following:
- NC text
- Total tranaparency of comunicating devices nad acountability of where abouts.
- Taking to full responsability.
- Full disclosure, radical honesty.
- Whatever may help you to start trusting her.

Then you need true and utter remorse, Not guilt, Not shame, Not regret... remorse. You can hope for it but you can demand nor control it.


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## Beowulf

Rocketman,

I know you don't want to hear this but you are not being told the entire truth. Your wife does not want to reveal everything that happened because she is afraid that if she does it will be too much for you to handle and you'll file for divorce. She also does not want to admit to herself and accept everything she did. Its very common and occurs most of the time when affairs come out. Pleading with her, telling her that it won't matter, assuring her that you only want the truth and you won't divorce her....none of that will work. Wayward spouses inevitably only disclose what they have to or what they think the betrayed spouse already knows. The only way you will get the entire truth is if you investigate and discover it for yourself or alternatively you can ask her to take a polygraph test to confirm what she's told you. If she refuses the polygraph or agrees to it reluctantly you know you don't have the truth. If she agrees to take the polygraph look at her eyes, her expression and her body language. It will reveal whether she realizes that she is going to be discovered. Monitor her computer history. If she begins to visit websites that describe how to fool polygraph tests you know she is still lying to you. When you do make the polygraph appointment don't tell her when it is until you are already on your way there. Most times the wayward spouse will come clean before they enter the testing building. Sorry you are here but now that you are you need to open your eyes and see things for what they really are. Otherwise this ride you're on will continue for a very long time.


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## badbane

Rocketman said:


> She just sent me a text saying I know I screwed up your life but you're making the picture uglier than it was and making it hurt more.
> She said she gave the phone back right after it happened. Adn doesn't remember the number he called her from, nor the number she called him at.


This is all a lie. If you think about it too many things logically make no sense. Why would he buy her a burner phone if she didn't even know his name. If she didn't talk to this guy over her phone then she must have had the burner phone for some time. If she was even doing the crossing guard thing how did they meet? Why did the crossing guard have time to communicate with this person long enough for an A to start and escalate.
She is trying to rug sweep this and wants it all to go away. If she has a cell phone you can look on the phone or at phone records. 
if she was a crossing guard for a school then the guy most likely has a student at the school. And what this guy just walks up to a crossing guard in the middle of the street and hits on her. Too many things not coming together. You can contact her supervisor at work and get a work schedule. 
She is still lying through her teeth even after all she has done to you. 
Also if you don't know if you want a sexless marriage then ask her to move out until you know what you want. B/c unless you want herpes 2 you will not want to have sex with her. Even with a condom your are still highly likely to contract it if you have not already. 

These are some serious life altering questions and you probably don't want her in your ear right now. Her life is crashing down and she will likely do something stupid or rash that you should not have to deal with. You need to focus on you and learn to live with the idea that you can live with out her. Could someone put the link to the 180 on here for this guy? I would consider a MC if you do want to try and save this marriage but given the irreversible circumstances about no more sex, if you don't have herpes, I doubt you want to stop that.


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## StandingInQuicksand

I too have married young and for a long time.
My H and I started dating at 17, married at 19, been married almost 18 years. 3 kids.

His A was with his best friend's wife, who was also my close friend.

His admittance to the A went like this in a nutshell spread over about 4 months:
1. We just talked. (1000 texts, 4000 minutes)
2. Okay, the talk got a little much and a little flirty, but nothing far over the line. (I found naked, gynocological pictures of OW)
3. Okay, she sent me some pictures.
4. Okay, yes, we talked dirty, sexted, phone sex, but that's it. I never even hugged her, kissed her, nor held her hand.
5. (drunk) What would you say if I told you she gave me a blow job?
6. (drunk - brags to friend) "I cheated on my wife and now we are having the best sex ever."
7. # 6 gets back to me, I confront, and he finallly finallllllyyyy admits to the sex that I knew in my heart existed all along.
8. Admits to "a couple" hotel sessions where they had sex "multiple times" without protection. Other than that, I've never received more detailed information. I've asked but stopped pushing when I realized I really didn't want to or need to know more.
9. I got an STD (HPV).

So all that to show that our loving spouses will lie to us til the day they die if they can. You might try getting her drunk, that worked well for loosening my H's lips. But they do also throw in a lot of mean stuff while drunk, so you have to be able to sift through the crap for what you need.

I'm soooooo sorry you are here. It is absolutely HORRIBLE to go through and all you can do is keep on keeping on and do the best you can for your kids and yourself.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Rocketman said:


> She just sent me a text saying I know I screwed up your life but *you're making the picture uglier than it was and making it hurt more.*
> She said she gave the phone back right after it happened. Adn doesn't remember the number he called her from, nor the number she called him at.


No you cant make it uglier than what she did. You cant make it more hurt than she did.

She gave back the phone on that day and She dont remember the number.REALLY? Are you buying her lies? Check she may still have that phone with her and they may be still contacting.

We know you are on roller costar, but there is a limit for everything. dont trust a word she says. she opens her mouth to lie, manipulate you into Repair.


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## anonymouskitty

Rocketman said:


> She just sent me a text saying I know I screwed up your life but you're making the picture uglier than it was and making it hurt more.
> She said she gave the phone back right after it happened. Adn doesn't remember the number he called her from, nor the number she called him at.


* RUGSWEEPING*


Faking Remorse,

False R


That's all I've got


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## mahike

I am so sorry you are going through this. We are about in the same boat as being married 29 years and being 51.

Your first steps need to be about you. I know you want to kill the other guy. I still have those feelings but what keeps it in check is my kids. I do not want them to have to deal with that type of problem in their lives.

Get your self to a Dr right away get a full check up. My heart rate was screwed up, sleeping and eating and all the rest. The mind movies are also tough to deal with. When it comes up think about your kids.

Decide later what you want to do about your marriage. Place yourself and your kids at the head of the list. Your wife did not think about you or your kids when she jumped into the sack with that POS. So she is at the back of the bus right now.

Go see an IC soon. It helped with my anger it was over the top. Read all you can and talk it out with the people here most are BS and we can relate to what you are going through.


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## Acabado

Herpes is controllable.


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## akashNil

Rocketman said:


> I'm 52 years old, have been married for 30 years and have 4 kids (8,10,12 & 14). Never cheated on my wife once ever. Lied to her about stopping smoking many times, stare at attractive women once in a while, but never, ever touched. My wife has been home many years raising our kids while I worked. She recently got a job as a school crossing guard, and all of a sudden has developed a social life again.
> Yesterday, she dropped the bomb shell on me. She met a guy last September, started off casually with coffee at the diner for 4-5 weeks, a few days a week. Last get together, they jumped in his truck took a ride. Kissing, touching led to unprotected sex. She says she cried as soon as they got intimate and stopped doing it very quickly, at which point the guy yelled at her "why'd you start something you couldn't finish?". He had giver her a TracPhone which she eventually gave back so they could call each other and set up meetings without me knowing about it. Since this ended back end of last year, he disappeared. Can't find him by name, and he was on Long Island for work and had North Carolina plates. Said he loved her and wanted her to leave me. Things haven't always been good with us, normal marriage issues over the years, but never like this. She says this is the first and only time she's ever been with another guy since she met me. To make things worse, she now tested positive for Herpes 2, which I got tested for this morning and am awaiting results.
> I don't have any friends to talk to about this, and have a lot of mixed emotions. Don't know if I'm more mad at the picture in my mind of them having sex in the back of his Denali, or the fact that she now has a disease she may have given me. It disgusts me to picture her naked with another guy, and all the things that led up to them getting physical that day. Also mad that I may never be able to have sex with her again because of the Herpes, and can't picture myself getting intimate with her, while I'll picture them together in my mind. This whole thing really rots. I feel like if I find him I'll kill him. I'm mad, embarrassed, grossed out, depressed and a little numb. When she told me yesterday in tears, I held her close and told her people make mistakes and as long as you learn from them we can work it out. By the time I got home from work, I was very angry, took my wedding ring off, and couldn't sleep at all last night, again picturing my wife naked, touching a strange guy is killing me.
> Please help with some practical advice, as my life as I knew it just fell apart.
> Thanks,
> Larry


I feel sorry that you are here. I do understand your mental state, as I have gone through it many times in last 25 years (because of my WW). 

There are many invisible things in your case:
the OM (Truck driver): invisible
his phone number: invisible
his name: invisible
his address: invisible

Only one thing that is visible: Herpes

I think all other posters are right. This is not a one time small incident. In addition to what others have said:

1. Did she cry because they couldn't finish the act due to herpes (pain), or did she remembered your love that time ?
2. Was it him that gave her the herpes, or was it a shock even to him?
3. Did he leave her due to the same thing?

One thing that I read somewhere is: " *Herpes is usually tracked back to your latest sexual partner because of the typical time it takes (1-3 weeks) to have an out break.*" 

If that is true (I am not sure), then how could it be related to last September?


----------



## Gabriel

Look, she is not going to tell you the whole truth if life just continues. You have to either demand a polygraph like Beowulf described, or you just need to go completely cold and dark on her. Or do a hard 180 (someone please post the link to the 180). 

When you do this, your wife will wonder what the heck is wrong, why you aren't being affectionate, why you are only talking "business" with her. It will drive her nuts while you will feel stronger.

If I were in your shoes, I would completely ignore her until she broke. If she pleads, just say, "Talking to you is pointless until I hear the full truth. Until then, expect nothing from me."

She'll break eventually.


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## kenmoore14217

Rocket, I've been around this site and others for a few years now and hands down, male or female, the people that make the purest decision are the ones who heal the best! She wouldn't do it your way so she should embrace the highway, pronto!


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## anonymouskitty

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## badbane

Acabado said:


> Herpes is controllable.


But still highly contagious and if he wants a D. Good luck finding a new wife who is willing to take on Herpes.


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## matt82

It would be hard, but not impossible, to contract herpes during a one time encounter that didn't even last more than a minute or two. My ex told me she had herpes early on when we started dating. We didn't have unprotected sex until after marriage, and even then, it was 1 1/2 years before I contracted them. (In hindsight, not a wise decision, but what are you going to do?)

I will almost guarantee that she is lying to you and that she slept with this man many times. Her story is possible, but not at all probable.

Tough situation you're in. I don't know what I would do.


----------



## matt82

badbane said:


> But still highly contagious and if he wants a D. Good luck finding a new wife who is willing to take on Herpes.


This is really hard to believe, but if she likes you enough, she'll overlook the herpes. It sounds crazy, but I've gotten more action with herpes since my divorce (I tell my partners) than I ever did before my marriage.

It sounds crazy, but it's true. Look at Derek Jeter. Tons of women have rationalized away their fear of herpes to sleep with him!


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## snap

Contact the phone operator for a call log, pretty sure only one number was ever dialed from it.

Also, you're in her BS up to your chin, don't let it stick.


----------



## deejov

badbane said:


> But still highly contagious and if he wants a D. Good luck finding a new wife who is willing to take on Herpes.


Okay, not really the time to get into this... you just got your heart ripped out.

But in time, do some research, and talk to your doctor.
The sad truth is... lots of people can have herpes for years with no symptons, and then they have an outbreak. 

If you test positive, there is a chance you've had it for a long time. I only mention this because she is likely to come to that conclusion soon as well. She may think you gave it to her, and there may be no way of knowing. And you may think she cheated a long time. It's a mind warp. So yeah, it can get worse.

She has it. Drugs will help her, It does not mean you cannot have sex with her. But you need to educate yourself about it, so does she, and it is what it is.
It's a real socially digusting thing, but that's a mental attitude. It's waaay more common than you think. People just don't think they have it unless they have an outbreak. Seek educated help for it, that's all I'm saying.


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## Monroe

Check everything... phone records (I know she had a trac phone, but look at call logs and texting logs on her/your phone account), FB (if she has one), messaging logs... everything. Perhaps the reason she isn't telling you everything is because he is still in the picture.


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## MattMatt

> I don't have any friends to talk to about this


You do now, man. And sadly most of us are experts in the field of infidelity. Even though we'd rather not be!


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## donny64

You're not getting the whole truth...or maybe even close to it.

Doesn't know his name, or any other info. Bull. 

Only happened once, and she stopped immediately. Bull. Oldest line in the book. 

Do you really expect (even though she cheated) that your wife who you've known for 30 years would just fall into the back seat of a pickup with a guy after a few coffee dates? I doubt it highly. And that to facilitate these "coffee dates" he bought her a burner phone? Please. 

She knew something was wrong (herpes), got tested, confirmed her fears, and came up with the most minimally forthcoming and minimally damaging story she could to explain what she KNEW you would find out eventually...that she caught an STD by sleeping with someone else.

Now she wants to walk away from consequences by telling you you are making it worse than it was, and are making it more painful. Painful for who....her? Tough crap if it's more painful for her. She caused it! Painful for you? No, she's doing that by not being completely forthcoming about everything that happened, and making your mind race over all of the unknowns.

I'd bet, when all is said and done, they had a months long physical affair. It is ridiculous for her to think you (or anyone else) is going to believe he bought her a phone when he was not getting something out of it outside of some conversation.

There's more. Dig deeper. Set up VAR's and check email and browsing history.

Sit her down and tell her she has one chance....(you to her): Listen carefully to every single word I say. Every one. You are now going to tell me every single detail of this. How many times. How long. Where. Who. How. I need to know all of this if I'm even going to consider moving on from it. You should consider that I may already know more than you think I know. If you lie about any of it, and I know or find out differently, I'm warning you that you have just lost your ONE CHANCE at reconcilliation. If you think I'm bullchitting, just try me. Now...tell me what REALLY happened. If you lie, we are DONE."

My guess is she will come out with substantially more detail and encounters. Either she does or doesn't. Once she's done, and she says she has told you the truth, look at your watch, and tell her "okay, let's go, we have an appointment". She'll say for what? Tell her "we are going to a private investigators office who I hired to do some digging and to give you a polygraph, and we're going to discuss the results of both of those tonight when you finish taking the test". Then drive to a nearby office building, park, and open your door to get out. Pause for a second. Look at her and tell her "before we head up, is there anything else I should know before we do this?" 

By that time, you'll likely have something approaching the truth. Hopefully.


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## keko

There has to be more encounters or more guys to this story.


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## MattMatt

Was this the first time she cheated, or the first time she got an STD?


----------



## Halien

Rocketman said:


> She just sent me a text saying I know I screwed up your life but you're making the picture uglier than it was and making it hurt more.
> She said she gave the phone back right after it happened. Adn doesn't remember the number he called her from, nor the number she called him at.


She is trying to minimalize her betrayal. This is a classic way, through a quick, exxagerated admission of how tragic her actions were to you, but then reeling it back in to how she really feels about the betrayal. To her, it is something that you should just get over after a while. To you, it is betrayal. As long as she tries to skate around the seriousness of her actions, she isn't trying to help you find the new meaning of what your marriage means to you. Personally, I think that when we have been married a very long time, it's probably less likely that you'll ever view the marriage quite the same. It is important, if you plan to reconcile, to find a new understanding of what being married means, with new assumptions about trust and loyalty. If she cannot be completely honest, and feel true remorse that is in line with the harm done to the marriage, you can't even start the healing process.


----------



## cdm9999

I am in a similar boat (21 years married, 4 kids, were faithful spouces throughout the marraige, found out spouse cheated).... the people here at TAMS call it like it is.... cheaters have the same script.... trickle truth, rugsweeping, gaslighting.... what you know is the tip of the iceberg (see photo that LordMayhem posted)..... I filed for D a month after i found out about the affair. I love my WH too and of course wish this never happened but it did and I have to do what I have to do. 

Don't believe her.... it goes much deeper than you think.

As far as herpes.... can you know for sure you havent gotten it? Can the doctors/blood test show you absolutely didnt get it even if you havent has symptoms.

So sorry you are here. I am from LI too... maybe something in the water?


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## Will_Kane

*Yesterday, she dropped the bomb shell on me. *

What prompted her to tell you now? Was it because she knew she had herpes and had to tell you before you found out you had it, too?

*She met a guy last September, started off casually with coffee at the diner for 4-5 weeks, a few days a week. *

This part really makes no sense. Your 50-year-old (approx) wife took a job as a crossing guard, having not worked outside the home. She met a guy. CASUAL. But she didn't mention one single time that she was having coffee with someone? Even though at that time, initially, supposedly there was no romance? Seems like a lie. He was putting the moves on her from the first moment and she did not deter him in any way. Maybe she put the moves on him. Either way, *this did not start out as an innocent "talking to a nice man I met over coffee." There was romantic interest on your wife's part right from the start, or else she would have mentioned this to you.* 

Find out from your wife, how did he approach her for coffee? Or did she approach him? What did they talk about? And why didn't she mention it to you?

*Last get together, they jumped in his truck took a ride. Kissing, touching led to unprotected sex. She says she cried as soon as they got intimate and stopped doing it very quickly, at which point the guy yelled at her "why'd you start something you couldn't finish?". *

So, she got the herpes from this two-second insertion? This was their last get together? 

The order of this is confusing and hard to make sense of.

They were meeting for coffee. At some point, it became romantic (from my reasoning above, it was romantic for your wife from day one). He gave her a burner phone so they could continue to meet up for coffee. WHY? They already were meeting up for coffee with no problem. Why would she need a burner phone to do something that was already not a problem without a burner phone? Ask your wife this question. Could it be that she was so in love with him that she wanted to be able to be in touch with him when they couldn't be together?

Ask your wife to write out a timeline of the affair. Dates and times of first time they met, when she first realized he was interested in her romantically, when she first realized she was interested in him romantically, when he gave her the burner phone, when she decided to have sex, when she had it, when she returned the burner phone, when the affair ended.

Another thing that doesn't make sense: she didn't know the guy's name, where he was living? Pretty basic stuff people who are meeting for coffee and having sex tell each other. He had North Carolina license plates, but she didn't ask him if he was from North Carolina or anything about his past? Having coffee and talking as much as they did? *She knows a lot more about this guy than she is telling you. * Also, they did it in a truck, why not in his house/apartment?

*He had giver her a TracPhone which she eventually gave back so they could call each other and set up meetings without me knowing about it.*

Her last meeting ever with this guy was when they had the two-second sex that gave her (and maybe you) herpes. Is this when she gave the TracPhone back?

*Since this ended back end of last year, he disappeared. *

So, to sum up their last meeting: two-second herpes sex in the back of his truck, him saying you're a dirty c**k-tease, give me my phone back, I'm outahere, poof, he's gone into thin air? Does this ending make sense to you? 

More likely story: she and he discussed how they could keep in touch, she told him she thought of him all the time and wanted to text him when they weren't together, he suggested the TracPhone, they used it to text and sext each other, she texted him how much she loved him and wanted to spend her life with him, he texted her how much he wanted to have sex with her and how hot she was, they had sex many times, they had sex in his apartment or in your house, she pushed it too far and wanted a relationship with him, maybe wanted to leave you and move in with him, he only wanted to use her for sex, it was getting too complicated for him, so he dumped her. She's telling you now because she knows she has herpes and she has concocted this story about one two-second sexual encounter only because it is the most palatable way for her to explain to you how she got herpes.


----------



## Will_Kane

First, push her for the truth based on how her story, from start to finish, makes absolutely no sense.

Next, polygraph.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Will_Kane said:


> First, push her for the truth based on how her story, from start to finish, makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> *Next, polygraph.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

She is not going to tell you 10% of truth unless you ask for a polygraph.


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## Larry2626

Sorry I haven't been around since yesterday, but this has been ultimate hell. I sat down with her yesterday and talked for hours. She gave me his name, but I Googled everywhere I could and can't find him; probably a fake name. I figure he is predator, and predators always hunt in the same area and bring their prey to the same place. I parked for hours last night, and again this morning on the corner of Main Street looking for a blue Denali with North Carolina plates. Drove for hours around the area and found nothing. I will kill this guy if I find him. Have no doubt and I'll deal with the consequences later, but I will let him know why before I'm done. Where she was working that day is a quiet residential area. He'd have no business being there unless he lived there. If he's still in the area, I will find him.
I asked her, and she gave me all the gory details. He pulled up one morning at her crossing guard post, and just started chatting about their similar trucks. Came back later with coffee and donuts. He would meet her in the morning and afternoon at her stops, and they'd go to Dunkin' Donuts afterwards to talk. She said they talked about everything. He just showed up with the TracPhone and asked her to take it so he would know where she was at all times, so he could meet up with her. She returned the phone before the sex incident, as she said it felt too much like an affair and was afraid she'd get caught, but she called him and gave him her post schedule for the upcoming week so they wouldn't need to call each other. She estimates they had meetings at Dunkin' Donuts 20-25 times, but it never got physical.
At one meeting he suggested they jump in his truck and they went for a ride. He drove straight down to the East Islip marina, which nobody could ever find unless they were really familiar with the area.
He said he wanted to go in the back seat just to hug. She followed him and straddled his legs, and they tongue kissed for "10-15 minutes". Then he pulled down her shirt and started kissing her breasts. He unzipped his fly, and put her hand on his privates. She says she didn't suck or stroke it, just gently massaged and held it. Then she took off one shoe, pulled off one leg of her pants, slid her underwear over and they did it. She says she can't believe how she let her emotions take over her common sense. She said literally they screwed for 10 seconds, and she started crying, got off him and got dressed. He was yelling at her as she walked away from his truck. Then he pulled up next to her, and offered to drive her back to her truck. She actually got in and took the ride, saying they didn't speak the whole way back. That's the last she heard from him.
She did give me two numbers, which she thinks she remembers him calling from, from the TracPhone's caller ID, which I am calling over and over.
She blames me for ignoring her and turning my attentions away from her, and towards my motorcycle, my new motorcycle friends and my motorcycle websites. She says he paid attention to her, told her he loved her, and actually listened to her. She says she got caught up in the emotions and made a giant mistake. But she also told me she's lived with horrible guilt for 9 months, and wouldn't have told me if she didn't get the herpes, as she knew it would break my heart, but she swore she'd never done it before, and never would again.
She offered to leave me, so I could start a new life with someone else. She also offered to let me leave her. I think she feels remorseful and horrible for what she's done. I really want to believe her and make the best we can of this life, but its so hard getting the picture of the 2 of them out of my mind. I asked her what's to make me think she won't do it again in a moment of lonliness, anger of just happenstance, and she swears she would never do it again. She was hysterically crying for hours.
This has been the worst weekend of my life.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

My ex h blamed me for all his misery and cheating. There was no way it was my fault.

This is no way your fault. There is no excuse in the world to justify cheating or her actions/words at this moment. She's blame shifting and trying to make you feel guilty, it makes her feel better. Ugh, I'm so very sorry that she turned your life upside down at this moment. 

I bet if you were to make her leave, she'd think before she spoke up. I personally don't believe I'd stay with someone who betrayed me. I'm very firm on this since it's happened before. Infidelity is my #1 deal breaker in the marriage.

Pulling the 180 works well regardless how this will turn out. Even if your marriage doesn't pull through, the 180 will help you move on.


----------



## keko

Rocketman said:


> She offered to leave me, so I could start a new life with someone else. She also offered to let me leave her.


Call her bluff.


----------



## anonymouskitty

Mate, at this juncture don't go all soft on her, now is the time you hit 180 with full force. Trust me you go soft on her and let her rugsweep this thing, you're in for more surprises down the road.


----------



## anonymouskitty

keko said:


> Call her bluff.


Like a boss


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Rocketman said:


> Sorry I haven't been around since yesterday, but this has been ultimate hell. I sat down with her yesterday and talked for hours. She gave me his name, but I Googled everywhere I could and can't find him; probably a fake name. I figure he is predator, and predators always hunt in the same area and bring their prey to the same place. I parked for hours last night, and again this morning on the corner of Main Street looking for a blue Denali with North Carolina plates. Drove for hours around the area and found nothing. I will kill this guy if I find him. Have no doubt and I'll deal with the consequences later, but I will let him know why before I'm done. Where she was working that day is a quiet residential area. He'd have no business being there unless he lived there. If he's still in the area, I will find him.
> I asked her, and she gave me all the gory details. He pulled up one morning at her crossing guard post, and just started chatting about their similar trucks. Came back later with coffee and donuts. He would meet her in the morning and afternoon at her stops, and they'd go to Dunkin' Donuts afterwards to talk. She said they talked about everything. He just showed up with the TracPhone and asked her to take it so he would know where she was at all times, so he could meet up with her. She returned the phone before the sex incident, as she said it felt too much like an affair and was afraid she'd get caught, but she called him and gave him her post schedule for the upcoming week so they wouldn't need to call each other. She estimates they had meetings at Dunkin' Donuts 20-25 times, but it never got physical.
> At one meeting he suggested they jump in his truck and they went for a ride. He drove straight down to the East Islip marina, which nobody could ever find unless they were really familiar with the area.
> He said he wanted to go in the back seat just to hug. She followed him and straddled his legs, and they tongue kissed for "10-15 minutes". Then he pulled down her shirt and started kissing her breasts. He unzipped his fly, and put her hand on his privates. She says she didn't suck or stroke it, just gently massaged and held it. Then she took off one shoe, pulled off one leg of her pants, slid her underwear over and they did it. She says she can't believe how she let her emotions take over her common sense. She said literally they screwed for 10 seconds, and she started crying, got off him and got dressed. He was yelling at her as she walked away from his truck. Then he pulled up next to her, and offered to drive her back to her truck. She actually got in and took the ride, saying they didn't speak the whole way back. That's the last she heard from him.
> She did give me two numbers, which she thinks she remembers him calling from, from the TracPhone's caller ID, which I am calling over and over.
> *She blames me for ignoring her and turning my attentions away from her,* and towards my motorcycle, my new motorcycle friends and my motorcycle websites. She says he paid attention to her, told her he loved her, and actually listened to her. She says she got caught up in the emotions and made a giant mistake. But she also told me she's lived with horrible guilt for 9 months, and *wouldn't have told me if she didn't get the herpes,* as she knew it would break my heart, but she swore she'd never done it before, and never would again.
> She offered to leave me, so I could start a new life with someone else. She also offered to let me leave her. I think she feels remorseful and horrible for what she's done. I really want to believe her and make the best we can of this life, but its so hard getting the picture of the 2 of them out of my mind. I asked her what's to make me think she won't do it again in a moment of lonliness, anger of just happenstance, and she swears she would never do it again. She was hysterically crying for hours.
> This has been the worst weekend of my life.



Cheaters blame shift, its their usual tactics to make the BS feel bad.

She offered to leave because she know that you wont leave her.

*What about the Polygraph.....*


----------



## MattMatt

Do not kill him, hurt him, or even fart in his general direction.

He is not worth you facing bad consequences for.



> "Hey! I may well be facing a death sentence/life imprisonment, but at least he knew how I felt about him!"


If that looks even remotely like your internal thinking, please! Get therapy. Now!


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## Acabado

Searching OM is good so you can look at the whole puzzle but leave him alone, don't try to meet him F2F, really it's not worth your freedom. Beyond what may happen to your marriage.


----------



## Larry2626

Why let him do this again? He's probably done this before and he'll probably do it again. He'll get what he deserves, and whatever happens, my wife can deal with it herself either way for the rest of her life. She brought this on the two of them, not me. Truthfully, the chances of me finding him are so slim, but I feel inside I have to try. She was actualy worried I might beat the crap out of her. And the thought did enter my mind. She's afraid if she rolls over in bed and touches me I might get violent. Last night, she slept on the floor. I've never hit her, and don't think I could, but its real hard to think straight when so many thoughts and pictures are in my mind at once. I now wrap a towel around myself when I get out of the shower, and get dressed in the bathroom. I don't even want her to see my body, and I certainly don't want to see hers. It just seems so "dirty" or "used" now. I have never had to deal with anything like this in my entire life, and really, as much as I appreciate everyone's advice, I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer. What's right for you might not be right for me, and vice versa. I'm trying my best to not let the emotions get the best of me, and not to make any rash decisions, but it sure is difficult, and not getting any easier.


----------



## anonymouskitty

Do you have kids Rocketman? Do you want to end up in prison and miss out their childhood?


oh so you do have kids.


----------



## keko

Rocketman said:


> Why let him do this again? He's probably done this before and he'll probably do it again. He'll get what he deserves, and whatever happens, my wife can deal with it herself either way for the rest of her life. She brought this on the two of them, not me. Truthfully, the chances of me finding him are so slim, but I feel inside I have to try. She was actualy worried I might beat the crap out of her. And the thought did enter my mind. She's afraid if she rolls over in bed and touches me I might get violent. Last night, she slept on the floor. I've never hit her, and don't think I could, but its real hard to think straight when so many thoughts and pictures are in my mind at once. I now wrap a towel around myself when I get out of the shower, and get dressed in the bathroom. I don't even want her to see my body, and I certainly don't want to see hers. It just seems so "dirty" or "used" now. I have never had to deal with anything like this in my entire life, and really, as much as I appreciate everyone's advice, I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer. What's right for you might not be right for me, and vice versa. I'm trying my best to not let the emotions get the best of me, and not to make any rash decisions, but it sure is difficult, and not getting any easier.


Who did you marry? Your wife or the other man? Who took vows to be loyal to you? Its your wife you need to be "punishing" not the other man.


----------



## cdm9999

Don't confront the guy... not worth it... YOU will lose.

And what she did with him is so creepy and disgusting. She is either very naive and was so easily manipulated into a disgusting situation or she does this kind of this all the time........ EEEWWWW


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## Acabado

Men like this OM in your life there are zillions. People who teake adventage of others. It's just a fact. Forget about him. Focus in what you wants out this marriage.
I have to say the now I think your wife's story sound plausible.
Hopely some other posters will post links to some info which may help you to difuse anger. There's very useful info from people who wore those shoes before you.


----------



## survivorwife

Rocketman said:


> Why let him do this again? He's probably done this before and he'll probably do it again. He'll get what he deserves, and whatever happens, my wife can deal with it herself either way for the rest of her life. She brought this on the two of them, not me. Truthfully, the chances of me finding him are so slim, but I feel inside I have to try. She was actualy worried I might beat the crap out of her. And the thought did enter my mind. She's afraid if she rolls over in bed and touches me I might get violent. Last night, she slept on the floor. I've never hit her, and don't think I could, but its real hard to think straight when so many thoughts and pictures are in my mind at once. I now wrap a towel around myself when I get out of the shower, and get dressed in the bathroom. I don't even want her to see my body, and I certainly don't want to see hers. It just seems so "dirty" or "used" now. I have never had to deal with anything like this in my entire life, and really, as much as I appreciate everyone's advice, I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer. What's right for you might not be right for me, and vice versa. I'm trying my best to not let the emotions get the best of me, and not to make any rash decisions, but it sure is difficult, and not getting any easier.


Here's the thing, Rocketman. Personally, I'm not buying her story. It's dramatic, It's effective, It sort of explains the "one time" episode and it sure sounds a bit rehearsed to me. Yes, you can call me skeptic, but here we are. It just doesn't pass the "common sense" test to me.

You see, for a first time emotionally involved cheater, there has to be a personal bond. Do you honest believe in your heart of hearts that she would have been intimate with someone she knows barely nothing about? Think about it.

During those little coffee breaks, he had to have told her a lot about him to get her comfortable. Because he did not take her to his home (or indoors for that matter), I highly suspect he is married and would not want his own wife to find out. The out of state plates and vehicle that she has sold you may be just to keep you from finding out who he is. You are angry. She knows this. Her crying is about having an STD and having to tell you. She needs to cry. If she did not, your anger would be directed at her and not him. Think about it.

Ask her if anyone saw them together during their discussions. Go to the coffee house and see if you can get a description of him. See if he is a regular there. Forget the out of state tags and her description of the vehicle. Your wife and this man were seen together by other people before they became intimate. See what you can find out from potential witnesses.

And no, you don't need to harm him physically. What you need to find out if there is a law in your State where you can criminally charge a person for transmitting a STD without disclosing his condition. Make your wife press charges if this is a crime in your State. I know that spreading AIDS without the "victim's) knowledge is a crime in some States. Also, when you do find out who he is (and I guarantee you he is married) expose him to his wife.

I understand what you said earlier about taking other people's advise under advisement and modifying what you read to your personal life. Listen to your gut. Really. Take a step back from the emotional and think logically. From a purely logical approach (as if you read this as a stranger's story) would you not also concluded that the wife is reciting a dramatic story (aka "fiction") in order to get her H (you) to forgive and forget and simply move on as if nothing happened?


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Rocketman said:


> Sorry I haven't been around since yesterday, but this has been ultimate hell. I sat down with her yesterday and talked for hours. She gave me his name, but I Googled everywhere I could and can't find him; probably a fake name. I figure he is predator, and predators always hunt in the same area and bring their prey to the same place. I parked for hours last night, and again this morning on the corner of Main Street looking for a blue Denali with North Carolina plates. Drove for hours around the area and found nothing. I will kill this guy if I find him. Have no doubt and I'll deal with the consequences later, but I will let him know why before I'm done. Where she was working that day is a quiet residential area. He'd have no business being there unless he lived there. If he's still in the area, I will find him.
> I asked her, and she gave me all the gory details. He pulled up one morning at her crossing guard post, and just started chatting about their similar trucks. Came back later with coffee and donuts. He would meet her in the morning and afternoon at her stops, and they'd go to Dunkin' Donuts afterwards to talk. She said they talked about everything. He just showed up with the TracPhone and asked her to take it so he would know where she was at all times, so he could meet up with her. She returned the phone before the sex incident, as she said it felt too much like an affair and was afraid she'd get caught, but she called him and gave him her post schedule for the upcoming week so they wouldn't need to call each other. She estimates they had meetings at Dunkin' Donuts 20-25 times, but it never got physical.
> At one meeting he suggested they jump in his truck and they went for a ride. He drove straight down to the East Islip marina, which nobody could ever find unless they were really familiar with the area.
> He said he wanted to go in the back seat just to hug. She followed him and straddled his legs, and they tongue kissed for "10-15 minutes". Then he pulled down her shirt and started kissing her breasts. He unzipped his fly, and put her hand on his privates. She says she didn't suck or stroke it, just gently massaged and held it. Then she took off one shoe, pulled off one leg of her pants, slid her underwear over and they did it. She says she can't believe how she let her emotions take over her common sense. She said literally they screwed for 10 seconds, and she started crying, got off him and got dressed. He was yelling at her as she walked away from his truck. Then he pulled up next to her, and offered to drive her back to her truck. She actually got in and took the ride, saying they didn't speak the whole way back. That's the last she heard from him.
> She did give me two numbers, which she thinks she remembers him calling from, from the TracPhone's caller ID, which I am calling over and over.
> She blames me for ignoring her and turning my attentions away from her, and towards my motorcycle, my new motorcycle friends and my motorcycle websites. She says he paid attention to her, told her he loved her, and actually listened to her. She says she got caught up in the emotions and made a giant mistake. But she also told me she's lived with horrible guilt for 9 months, and wouldn't have told me if she didn't get the herpes, as she knew it would break my heart, but she swore she'd never done it before, and never would again.
> She offered to leave me, so I could start a new life with someone else. She also offered to let me leave her. I think she feels remorseful and horrible for what she's done. I really want to believe her and make the best we can of this life, but its so hard getting the picture of the 2 of them out of my mind. I asked her what's to make me think she won't do it again in a moment of lonliness, anger of just happenstance, and she swears she would never do it again. She was hysterically crying for hours.
> This has been the worst weekend of my life.


Dude, you are wasting precious energy on someone who doesn't matter one bit.

*It's your wife who did this to you, not him.*

I can say that (from my own experience) what you're going through
right now is just one of the many phases of being a BS.

When I went through this phase myself, it got my WW's attention 
and I could tell that in a small way she enjoyed 
watching me get all "alpha" over it. I know I could hurt the OM
beyond belief and would love nothing more than to do so, 
but is it worth being away from my kids? 

Not a chance in hell.

*Please* rethink this.

Take an hour or so and read about my story.


----------



## warlock07

She gave you wrong info about OM and his phone number. You might go off on some innocent guy matching the description. Be careful. Don't believe a word she says. She is lying and will keep lying. The story is bullsh!t. Read it again. Utter bullsh!t. /Yeah, people go around carrying spare trac phones to have affairs. Right!!


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## ing

I know that at the moment you want to kill him. The thing you have to let sink in though is that the woman you spent 30 years married to willingly and enthusiastically went with this man to have sex on multiple occasions. Lord Mayhem is right..

The truth is always more ugly than they say. I had access to secret communications between Om and my ExW at the time and can tell you that if they tell you they definitely didn't do it.. They did.
She fell in love.. She got herpes. She did everything with him that she would never do with you. She had unprotected sex with a stranger many, many times.

It is her you need to be mad with. Not him.

She only told you because she had no choice. She may be feeling incredible guilt but that is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

Saying all this it is very, very hard to wipe away a 30 year partnership on even a year of infidelity. 

Do not separate unless you want a Divorce right now. Let this sit a bit. Do nothing rash.

Keep posting. You have friends here. Do not show you wife this forum..


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## aug

Keep your life simple.

Your wife is lying to you. She's not telling you who he is. She's is/was probably in a long term affair with someone. 

Do your youngest kids look like you? A paternity on them is about $100 each.


Do not have sex with her since you do not want herpes (repeating what you wrote earlier). Each person's body react differently to herpes, dont take the chance to find out yours are worst.


Anyways, no sex and no trust mean no marriage as you know it.

And do you really want a woman who lost respect for you? Respect lost can seldom be regained. Well, at least not with the remaining lifetime you have where you can physically enjoy yourself.


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## Entropy3000

anchorwatch said:


> Somthing's not right. Meetings, dinners, throw away phone, that's long term not a month, And they only did it once, he entered once and pulled out? She's sparing your feelings.
> 
> Post on the copping with infidelity area. You'll get good advice there, on what to do.
> 
> Don't make any life changing decisions while your emotions all over the place. Good luck.


Yes. Much more to this. Very much trickle truth.

Even beyond the sex this was over the top. She sought out someone to date. I mean how does the relate to being a crossing guard? How did that lead to this kind of social life? This seems more than bad boundaries but certainly that is true.

Consider that maybe this is just the first time you know about it because of the Herpes.


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## MattMatt

Rocketman said:


> Why let him do this again? He's probably done this before and he'll probably do it again. He'll get what he deserves, and whatever happens, my wife can deal with it herself either way for the rest of her life. She brought this on the two of them, not me. Truthfully, the chances of me finding him are so slim, but I feel inside I have to try. She was actualy worried I might beat the crap out of her. And the thought did enter my mind. She's afraid if she rolls over in bed and touches me I might get violent. Last night, she slept on the floor. I've never hit her, and don't think I could, but its real hard to think straight when so many thoughts and pictures are in my mind at once. I now wrap a towel around myself when I get out of the shower, and get dressed in the bathroom. I don't even want her to see my body, and I certainly don't want to see hers. It just seems so "dirty" or "used" now. I have never had to deal with anything like this in my entire life, and really, as much as I appreciate everyone's advice, I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer. What's right for you might not be right for me, and vice versa. I'm trying my best to not let the emotions get the best of me, and not to make any rash decisions, but it sure is difficult, and not getting any easier.


Do NOT get revenge get therapy. For your own sake. Not hers.


----------



## MattMatt

warlock07 said:


> She gave you wrong info about OM and his phone number. You might go off on some innocent guy matching the description. Be careful. Don't believe a word she says. She is lying and will keep lying. The story is bullsh!t. Read it again. Utter bullsh!t. /Yeah, people go around carrying spare trac phones to have affairs. Right!!


Actually, I know of one class of people who regularly carry multiple disposable phones with them. Drug dealers. For example.


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## Will_Kane

*Why didn't your wife tell you about this guy the first day it happened? Because she was thinking about him romantically from the very start?* It is such a strange occurrence, she would have told you about it right away, if she didn't have romantic intentions right from the start.

Have you ever heard of a roving 50-ish man prowling the streets in the morning looking for 50-ish women crossing guards to bang? One that travels about 1,000 miles north of where he lives and stays until he finds someone? Who he doesn't tell his real name to or give his real number to? *And willing to put in the time and effort of having coffee with them 20-25 times before even getting a kiss? * Honestly, he doesn't sound like much of a predator.

Rocket, step back from this situation for a second and look at it from where I'm standing. What would you think if someone told you this story?


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## Entropy3000

Rocketman said:


> Sorry I haven't been around since yesterday, but this has been ultimate hell. I sat down with her yesterday and talked for hours. She gave me his name, but I Googled everywhere I could and can't find him; probably a fake name. I figure he is predator, and predators always hunt in the same area and bring their prey to the same place. I parked for hours last night, and again this morning on the corner of Main Street looking for a blue Denali with North Carolina plates. Drove for hours around the area and found nothing. I will kill this guy if I find him. Have no doubt and I'll deal with the consequences later, but I will let him know why before I'm done. Where she was working that day is a quiet residential area. He'd have no business being there unless he lived there. If he's still in the area, I will find him.
> I asked her, and she gave me all the gory details. He pulled up one morning at her crossing guard post, and just started chatting about their similar trucks. Came back later with coffee and donuts. He would meet her in the morning and afternoon at her stops, and they'd go to Dunkin' Donuts afterwards to talk. She said they talked about everything. He just showed up with the TracPhone and asked her to take it so he would know where she was at all times, so he could meet up with her. She returned the phone before the sex incident, as she said it felt too much like an affair and was afraid she'd get caught, but she called him and gave him her post schedule for the upcoming week so they wouldn't need to call each other. She estimates they had meetings at Dunkin' Donuts 20-25 times, but it never got physical.
> At one meeting he suggested they jump in his truck and they went for a ride. He drove straight down to the East Islip marina, which nobody could ever find unless they were really familiar with the area.
> He said he wanted to go in the back seat just to hug. She followed him and straddled his legs, and they tongue kissed for "10-15 minutes". Then he pulled down her shirt and started kissing her breasts. He unzipped his fly, and put her hand on his privates. She says she didn't suck or stroke it, just gently massaged and held it. Then she took off one shoe, pulled off one leg of her pants, slid her underwear over and they did it. She says she can't believe how she let her emotions take over her common sense. She said literally they screwed for 10 seconds, and she started crying, got off him and got dressed. He was yelling at her as she walked away from his truck. Then he pulled up next to her, and offered to drive her back to her truck. She actually got in and took the ride, saying they didn't speak the whole way back. That's the last she heard from him.
> She did give me two numbers, which she thinks she remembers him calling from, from the TracPhone's caller ID, which I am calling over and over.
> She blames me for ignoring her and turning my attentions away from her, and towards my motorcycle, my new motorcycle friends and my motorcycle websites. She says he paid attention to her, told her he loved her, and actually listened to her. She says she got caught up in the emotions and made a giant mistake. But she also told me she's lived with horrible guilt for 9 months, and wouldn't have told me if she didn't get the herpes, as she knew it would break my heart, but she swore she'd never done it before, and never would again.
> She offered to leave me, so I could start a new life with someone else. She also offered to let me leave her. I think she feels remorseful and horrible for what she's done. I really want to believe her and make the best we can of this life, but its so hard getting the picture of the 2 of them out of my mind. I asked her what's to make me think she won't do it again in a moment of lonliness, anger of just happenstance, and she swears she would never do it again. She was hysterically crying for hours.
> This has been the worst weekend of my life.


Total BS. What kind of a woman hooks up with a guy that stops by when she is a crossing guard. This is totally made up.

She is lying to you. It is just as likely she met a guy on Craigslist. You do not have the truth yet.

Anyway for sure. Let her go. If this is the truth ... let hergo. I this is a lie ... let her go.

This is not her first rodeo.


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## Will_Kane

Rocket, your wife's story is theoretically possible but not at all believable. See if she will take a polygraph.


----------



## t_hopper_2012

I am also very, very skeptical of her story. It does a number of things very well (too well): 

a) covers the facts in evidence (she has herpes, that must be explained ... so, she got it from another man)

b) shows her in the best possible light (only had sex one time, lasted 10 seconds before she started to cry and stopped - clearly, her conscience finally got the better of her - that and she started to think of her husband who she loves so much)

c) makes it impossible to even look for this other man (it was 9 months ago, he disappeared, she can't remember the phone numbers, the phone numbers don't work, it was a burner phone). Why, by the way, does she want to make it impossible to find the other man? Because if there were enough clues to make it worthwhile, R-Man would start digging and find out that there really isn't another man.

Now, some may say that there is one other story that would cover the facts and make it look even better: the OM forced himself on her. She never wanted to do it. [Let me stop right here before I get slammed. Rape is a horrible thing. "No" should always mean "No". No man ever has a right to 'take' what a woman is not willing to 'give'. I'm just hypothesizing on her story, here.] Anyway. Why not use this story? Because she knows her husband. Because she knows he would never stop until he found the guy. Because she knows he would involve the police and they would interview her and start going door-to-door in the neighborhood around her crossing guard post to see if anybody got the license of the OM's truck. This would quickly lead to truth: the OM in this story is a ghost, a phantom, a mirage. He only serves to keep the R-Man from digging any further and getting to the truth: the affair involved somebody local - somebody that they probably both know.

Now, R-Man, if this rings true for you, don't go off half-****ed. Your wife is going to stick to this story until the day she dies. If you want the truth out of her, you're going to have to do more than just ask her.

The question is, R-Man, do you want the truth?


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## t_hopper_2012

Rocketman,

I was wondering about the timeline here. Did I read it right that your wife says that this happened 9 months ago and that she's had to live with it since then?

If so, how did your wife discover that she has herpes? Did she have symptoms and then go see her doctor OR did the herpes show up in a blood test?

If it was 9 months ago and she discovered the herpes due to symptoms then something is off. I just grabbed this off the web:


*If symptoms do occur, they will usually appear 2 to 7 days after exposure and last 2 to 4 weeks. Both men and women may have one or more symptoms, including:

Itching or tingling sensations in the genital or anal area;
small fluid-filled blisters that burst leaving small painful sores (see STD pictures);
pain when passing urine over the open sores (especially in women);
headaches;
backache;
flu-like symptoms, including swollen glands or fever.
*

So, if it was 9 months ago and she did have herpes symptoms, then she had those symptoms 8 months ago. Seems odd that she didn't have them checked out (or it seems odd that she did have them checked out and kept it to herself for 8 months).

How did she find out about the herpes? (If you've answered in another post that I've missed, I apologize)


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## Will_Kane

_I am also very, very skeptical of her story. It does a number of things very well (too well): 

a) *covers the facts in evidence *(she has herpes, that must be explained ... so, she got it from another man)

b) *shows her in the best possible light *(only had sex one time, lasted 10 seconds before she started to cry and stopped - clearly, her conscience finally got the better of her - that and she started to think of her husband who she loves so much)

c) *makes it impossible to even look for this other man *(it was 9 months ago, he disappeared, she can't remember the phone numbers, the phone numbers don't work, it was a burner phone). Why, by the way, does she want to make it impossible to find the other man? Because if there were enough clues to make it worthwhile, R-Man would start digging and find out that there really isn't another man.

Now, some may say that *there is one other story that would cover the facts and make it look even better: the OM forced himself on her.* She never wanted to do it. [Let me stop right here before I get slammed. Rape is a horrible thing. "No" should always mean "No". No man ever has a right to 'take' what a woman is not willing to 'give'. I'm just hypothesizing on her story, here.] Anyway. Why not use this story? Because she knows her husband. Because she knows he would never stop until he found the guy. Because *she knows he would involve the police and they would interview her and start going door-to-door in the neighborhood around her crossing guard post to see if anybody got the license of the OM's truck. This would quickly lead to truth: the OM in this story is a ghost*, a phantom, a mirage. He only serves to keep the R-Man from digging any further and getting to the truth: the affair involved somebody local - somebody that they probably both know.

Now, R-Man, if this rings true for you, don't go off half-****ed. *Your wife is going to stick to this story until the day she dies. If you want the truth out of her, you're going to have to do more than just ask her*.

The question is, R-Man, do you want the truth? _

This sounds about right to me.

I wonder how much of the truth she wove into her lie.


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## jnj express

Hey Rocket---time to stop this stupidity, of wanting the OM's hide---you are 52 yrs old, you probably will see a red haze, if you were to find him, and end up in jail, along with that, a giant portion of whatever you have for the future, moneywise---will go to atty's---so enuff of your, looking for her lover

Your beef, is with one person, and one person only---that is your wife

If she was so unhappy---she could have at anytime, come to you and FORCED you to listen to her, instead, she carries, on an A

Sadly, you are 52, and not far from your golden years, that you would have spent with your wife---now that is all gone---now replaced, by visions, looking at a conniving/decietful/lying/manipulating woman, who masquerades as your wife

At this point, do not let her sleep in the bedroom with you, put her in a small room somewhere in your house, throw all her clothes, and sundries, in there, and tell her this is where she can stay, till you figure out what you need to do

What I am saying may seem harsh, but it is nothing compared to what she has done to you, now, and for the rest of your life---for she will be the trigger, for these visions, and your misery, as long as she is there in front of you

She accused you of spending all your time, with your bike---well now is the time, to make that actually happen----she needs to know accountability, so let her really taste lonliness----

Otherwise---if you decide to take her back, set up your actionable boundaries---demand what you will of her, have her sign a POST--NUP, and let's see how remorseful she can really be, and how much heavy lifting she is really willing to do

The question again being---can you really even look at/want to touch/talk to---this woman, who claims to be your wife----If you can't, to any of those things---you will be roommates, and not a married couple, and that is not something you may want to endure either!!!!!


----------



## deejov

cdm9999 said:


> Don't confront the guy... not worth it... YOU will lose.
> 
> And what she did with him is so creepy and disgusting. She is either very naive and was so easily manipulated into a disgusting situation or she does this kind of this all the time........ EEEWWWW


I don't agree... they met 20 - 25 times. That's a LOT of talking and coffee. It sounds like he was a predator.... looking to get laid. The fact that it took soooo long for her to do anything, says quite a lot about her character. Would you have gone on 20 dates with a girl, and not gotten angry when she balked at the sex? Naw, most guys wouldn't have waited 20 dates. 

If her story is true.


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## lordmayhem

She shouldn't went on dates with him 20-25 times in the first place if she had any character, and yes, those are dates. If she had any morals it she would have said "No, I can't do that. I'm a married woman". But she didn't. She continued to go on dates with the OM behind Rocketman's back. The BWs here too have had opportunities to cheat, but they didn't. They turn other men down immediately.


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## Beowulf

Rocketman,

Her story is extremely unlikely and I think deep down you know this. It would be almost unheard of for her to contract herpes after 10 seconds of penetration. Is it possible that some guy saw her and figured she was an easy conquest? Sure it is. But there are literally thousands of those type of guys out there. What are you going to do, hunt them all down? The fact is that if her boundaries were strong this never would have happened. And you know that after most of those coffee dates she didn't just get up and come home. A man like that is not going to just continue to lavish his attention on a "mark" without making progress. If you've ever read anything about "game" you would know that after three dates if the woman isn't putting out the player moves on. Each time you sit down with her a little more will come out but unless you shake up the situation (i.e. threaten a polygraph, run the 180 hard, etc) you aren't going to get the entire truth.


----------



## SadSamIAm

The 20-25 dates tells me this was an affair.

They shared many personal things during 20-25 dates, talking at the coffee shop. She would have gotten to know him pretty well. Each time they met, she was cheating. 

It wouldn't really matter to me if they had sex the one time like she says or many times. 

I think an EA followed by sex is much worse than a one night stand. I can somewhat understand a wife who gets pissed off at her husband, gets drunk, and hooks up with a stranger. But a wife who meets with someone 20-25 times and shares all her feelings with is worse. A one time lapse in judgement vs a lifestyle of cheating.


----------



## Posse

Her story still makes no sense.

She is still lying. All she has done is embellish the lie.

I have seen this behavior too many times to count. "Oh crap, my lie isnt being believed. I'll add more detail. Maybe that will make it more believable."

I would go with the poly.

And blaming you? Please................


----------



## Posse

And leave the other mystery guy with no name (OMG is your wife a horrible liar, BTW) alone. He didn't assault your wife. She voluntarily participated in whatever actually happened.

Your beef is with your wife, and she proved by her actions that she isn't worth any trouble for you. Your anger should be with her, not some other guy.


----------



## Beowulf

Posse said:


> And leave the other mystery guy with no name (OMG is your wife a horrible liar, BTW) alone. He didn't assault your wife. She voluntarily participated in whatever actually happened.
> 
> Your beef is with your wife, and she proved by her actions that she isn't worth any trouble for you. Your anger should be with her, not some other guy.


Exactly right. Unless the guy is continuing to pursue her he is of no immediate consequence. The focus should be on eliciting the truth from his wife since he still doesn't have it yet. If Rocketman's wife was truly remorseful she would be assisting him by disclosing the name of her AP so they he can be exposed if that is something Rocketman needs to do to get past this betrayal. By keeping his name a secret she is in fact protecting her AP and putting his well being above her husband's and her marriage. At this point I would be more concerned about whether she is taking her affair underground or putting it on hold until her husband cools off and becomes complacent again.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Was this her First A? I don't believe that...............

She looks like an expert in cheating. Did you asked her about the polygraph?


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## Larry2626

She gave me his name, Daniel Halvrey. She said he told her it several times, and she saw it on an alumimum clipboard in his truck. Tried to find him any way I could but to no avail. I've also been reading tons of things about Herpes. Some people get symptoms between a couple of days and a couple of weeks. Some never get symptoms. Folks spread it without even knowing they have it. It apparently can be spread (both Herpes 1 & 2) by kissing, oral and other sex, and just by touching as the virus stays alive on your skin, and you don't have to have open sores or outbreaks to pass it on, as I'm sure she would have seen sores on him before hand. This is from 2 doctors and the CDC website, as well as many others. So maybe she did get it from 10 seconds of penetration, maybe from 15 minutes of tongue swapping, maybe from her holding his penis, maybe from him sucking on her breasts. It doesn't really matter as she has it and that's done.
I left this morning at 7:30am for a 6 hour motorcycle ride upstate New York to try and clear my head and do some soul searching. It didn't help. I just keep asking why did she do this? She more than ripped out my heart, she shattered it. I have nothing left. She killed my best friend of 30 years. She took away my past and destroyed my future. As I was riding, I passed many places we had ridden together before, and thought of many things we did together-never to happen again. She's not the same person she was before this weekend. She insists her story is true and has agreed to a polygraph, although I don't know how that will really help, it can only get worse if she's still lying. She says it started off as a friendship, just meeting and talking, and she felt comfortable having someone listen to her and pay her some attention. Sex came up in the conversation, but she said she couldn't do that because she was married, not because it was wrong, but just because she couldn't. She said she didn't plan the sex, it just happened and she hated it. I hate to say it, but I kind of believe her. If it was planned, she would have taken all her clothes off, not just one pants leg. She also would have gone to a hotel, rather than taking a chance of getting caught in a public parking lot. I also think, she would have had a shred of common sense and stopped to pick up a condom on the way. She may be a cheater, but she's really not an idiot. But she sure planned the meetings, she sure had her mind together shen she straddled him in the back seat, and she had ample opporunity to stop this before it eventually led to sex. Anyway, them kissing, him sucking her breasts and her handling his penis seems like sex already happened to me. Putting it in was just the icing on the cake-the deed had already been done. She insists they just became really good friends, but in all the time I've known her, she's never had sex with any of the other "good" friends. I don't get this, and I am torn apart. My life as I knew it has ended, and I don't know what the future has in store for me, her or us.


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## bandit.45

Rocketman said:


> She says it started off as a friendship, just meeting and talking, and she felt comfortable having someone listen to her and pay her some attention. Sex came up in the conversation, but she said she couldn't do that because she was married, not because it was wrong, but just because she couldn't. She said she didn't plan the sex, it just happened and she hated it. I hate to say it, but I kind of believe her. If it was planned, she would have taken all her clothes off, not just one pants leg. She also would have gone to a hotel, rather than taking a chance of getting caught in a public parking lot. I also think, she would have had a shred of common sense and stopped to pick up a condom on the way. She may be a cheater, but she's really not an idiot. But she sure planned the meetings, she sure had her mind together shen she straddled him in the back seat, and she had ample opporunity to stop this before it eventually led to sex. Anyway, them kissing, him sucking her breasts and her handling his penis seems like sex already happened to me. Putting it in was just the icing on the cake-the deed had already been done. She insists they just became really good friends, but in all the time I've known her, she's never had sex with any of the other "good" friends. I don't get this, and I am torn apart. My life as I knew it has ended, and I don't know what the future has in store for me, her or us.


Um, friend, she is lying. It was full blown sex, planned and premeditated. No mistake that it was also unprotected...she wanted to feel everything. This crap she is feeding is the oldest dodge in the cheaters handbook. Tell her you know she is lying, you know she had full on nasty sex with the guy, and if she does not fess up to all the gory details....you are gone and the marriage is over.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Rocketman said:


> She gave me his name, Daniel Halvrey. She said he told her it several times, and she saw it on an alumimum clipboard in his truck. Tried to find him any way I could but to no avail. I've also been reading tons of things about Herpes. Some people get symptoms between a couple of days and a couple of weeks. Some never get symptoms. Folks spread it without even knowing they have it. It apparently can be spread (both Herpes 1 & 2) by kissing, oral and other sex, and just by touching as the virus stays alive on your skin, and you don't have to have open sores or outbreaks to pass it on, as I'm sure she would have seen sores on him before hand. This is from 2 doctors and the CDC website, as well as many others. So maybe she did get it from 10 seconds of penetration, maybe from 15 minutes of tongue swapping, maybe from her holding his penis, maybe from him sucking on her breasts. It doesn't really matter as she has it and that's done.
> I left this morning at 7:30am for a 6 hour motorcycle ride upstate New York to try and clear my head and do some soul searching. It didn't help. I just keep asking why did she do this? She more than ripped out my heart, she shattered it. I have nothing left. She killed my best friend of 30 years. She took away my past and destroyed my future. As I was riding, I passed many places we had ridden together before, and thought of many things we did together-never to happen again. She's not the same person she was before this weekend. *She insists her story is true and has agreed to a polygraph*, although I don't know how that will really help, it can only get worse if she's still lying. She says it started off as a friendship, just meeting and talking, and she felt comfortable having someone listen to her and pay her some attention. Sex came up in the conversation, but she said she couldn't do that because she was married, not because it was wrong, but just because she couldn't. She said she didn't plan the sex, it just happened and she hated it. I hate to say it, but I kind of believe her. If it was planned, she would have taken all her clothes off, not just one pants leg. She also would have gone to a hotel, rather than taking a chance of getting caught in a public parking lot. I also think, she would have had a shred of common sense and stopped to pick up a condom on the way. She may be a cheater, but she's really not an idiot. But she sure planned the meetings, she sure had her mind together shen she straddled him in the back seat, and she had ample opporunity to stop this before it eventually led to sex. Anyway, them kissing, him sucking her breasts and her handling his penis seems like sex already happened to me. Putting it in was just the icing on the cake-the deed had already been done. She insists they just became really good friends, but in all the time I've known her, she's never had sex with any of the other "good" friends. I don't get this, and I am torn apart. My life as I knew it has ended, and I don't know what the future has in store for me, her or us.



Then why are you hesitating do the poly.

As a former BS i can tell you one thing Cheaters open their mouth to lie and blame shift.

Her story is full of holes we know you want to trust her, but truth will be very very far away from what ever she told you.


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## keko

Did you get the results back from the testing?


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## jnj express

OK--Rocket--lets assume, your wife, has it all together,and is a smart, grown, mature woman

WHAT THE F DID SHE THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN WHEN THE GUY ASKED HER TO GO INTO HIS BACK SEAT

She knew what he was asking for, even as she left the front seat, and went to the back seat---she knew she was at that point in time, if no other, that she was going to wreck, your life/her life/your childrens lives, and affect every other member of your families---AND SHE STILL WENT

What did she think, was gonna happen when he positioned her, or she climbed on his lap---ONCE AGAIN SHE F'ING KNEW WHAT WAS GONNA HAPPEN---AND SHE WENT FOR IT---she didn't hate it, she didn't dislike it---SHE WANTED IT

As for the 20-25 dates, the planned meetings, while you innocently worked, and knew nothing----believe me---if this guy wanted sex, he wasn't gonna wait 20 to 25 times to get it---what PUA, takes 25 times to make his score---and who is going to a coffee shop 25 different times, to just talk

Your wife is still cheating on you to this moment, by lies of OMISSION

Your life, your wife---but I surely can't see how there is any love involved tween the two of you anymore---if it is, please explain what kind of a love it could even be?????


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## Will_Kane

*I've also been reading tons of things about Herpes. Some people get symptoms between a couple of days and a couple of weeks. Some never get symptoms. Folks spread it without even knowing they have it. It apparently can be spread (both Herpes 1 & 2) by kissing, oral and other sex, and just by touching as the virus stays alive on your skin, and you don't have to have open sores or outbreaks to pass it on, as I'm sure she would have seen sores on him before hand. This is from 2 doctors and the CDC website, as well as many others. So maybe she did get it from 10 seconds of penetration, maybe from 15 minutes of tongue swapping, maybe from her holding his penis, maybe from him sucking on her breasts. It doesn't really matter as she has it and that's done.*

It matters that she tells you the truth about the extent of her affair.

*She insists her story is true and has agreed to a polygraph*,

Schedule the polygraph as soon as possible. Any decision you make should be made on the truth of the situation. Get the pain over with as soon as you can, then you can make a decision whether to reconcile or not. 


*Although I don't know how that will really help, it can only get worse if she's still lying.*

Knowing the truth will help you decide whether to reconcile or not. Just knowing whether she has continued to lie to you will tell you more about what you're dealing with going forward.


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## donny64

> She insists her story is true and has agreed to a polygraph, although I don't know how that will really help, it can only get worse if she's still lying.


For you to move on from this you need to believe you have the truth. If it gets worse, it gets worse. That is her choice. If she is in fact minimizing things, she needs to come clean. There will be nothing worse for you than the constant wondering about what happened. As long as you feel you don't have the truth, you're going to wonder. 

It may have happened just like she said, but I'm still doubting it. Two things jump out at me...the burner phone and the herpes. Why the burner phone if it was a one time thing. There needs to be some clarification on that. Was the phone given before the sex? And why did she feel a need to hide her contact with him before this if there was no sex? You see...this just didn't happen. Maybe it was a one time physical thing, but the EA (emotional affair) was going on long before that at a minimum. Why would she need to hide "coffee with a friend" from you by way of a burner phone?

And the herpes. Yes, she could have gotten it from a one time thing...if he was somewhere in the breakout phase. Then it could be passed on quite easily from one contact. However, would he, knowing he was in this phase, chose that night to have unprotected sex with your wife? Unless he's a real douche (and he may be...more to follow on that), I find that hard to believe. Yes, many people have it and do not know. They do not know because the do not break out. In the absence of a break out or symptoms, the chance of passing it is much less on a "per contact" basis. Still possible, but the risk is much less. I read that in the absence of symptoms, and without condoms or meds, the chance of passing it on is about 10 percent....IN A YEAR of regular sex. Condoms drops that to about 4 percent. Condoms and the anti viral meds for herpes drops it to about 1 to 2 percent chance of transmission. In a year of regular sex. Those are the numbers I recall, they may be off a little.

Now, this is going from memory, but I'm pretty sure I'm about right. I had an STD scare a couple years ago, and did a TON of research, and had myself convinced I had it. Thankfully, all testing when that happened followed by three and six months later showed I had nothing to worry about, but man, did I get an education on this stuff.

So, this brings me to my point. There are two options as I see it. Best case for you is this: She is telling the truth. This guy who's name she gave you does not exist because he lied to her about his name. He is a predator who has a little gig he does...he preys on lonely middle aged housewives. He does his crossing guard thing, and that is his "in". He befriends them, plays them, gives them what they want and they are not getting at home (somebody who listens to them, and romance and excitement), and once he has them into him, he moves in for the kill (sex). He'll only do so much to keep her interested, and if and when he finds out the sex is not going to be there, he ditches them. Sound familiar? Did she not say he left in a huff and called her a c0ck tease when she stopped him...never to hear from him again? Hmmm. Food for thought.

Now, in the above scenario with this predator type guy...who has lied about his name and had only sexual motives. He has herpes and knows he does. Would this guy have unprotected sex with someone when he knew he was in a very contagious phase? You bet your azz he would. Because he doesn't care, and his victim does not know anything about him (because he lied about his name). In this scenario, yes, it could be very likely she caught it off of a very short, one time contact. 

Would this guy give her a burner phone to speed things along and get to his goal of sex? Sure he would. The more "secrets" from her husband he can get her to commit to, the closer he is to his goal of sex, and exciting her with the "naughty" factor.

Now, the second scenario....

She has had a long term affair with this guy...and he is local, and you may know him. It may have started out innocent, but she got caught up in the "fog" and excitement. This would explain the phone and the herpes (long time affair, greater chance of infection over time), as well as the fact she does not want to tell you the truth about who he is because she's afraid you'll kill the guy, OR it will end what could still be an ongoing affair. Remember, she ONLY came to you with this when she KNEW you were going to find out eventually anyway...because of the STD. If it were not for this STD she caught, SHE WOULD HAVE LIKELY NEVER TOLD YOU ABOUT THIS. She did not tell you after it ended (if it in fact has), she told you about it when she knew she was caught and there was no way out. It was only a matter of time until you knew. Impossible to hide forever.

I don't know man, you know your wife better than anyone. But until you can resolve this question for yourself, you'll not be able to move on from it. I'm not a big proponent of polygraphs because I've seen enough of them to know there are serious faults in the process depending on the examiner and questions asked. To me the polygraph results would answer no real questions for me. What it would do (making her submit to a polygraph) is likely get the truth from her prior to her doing so. It is a tool to get at the truth...not a tool that with all certainty reveals the truth. It would seriously suck to end a marriage over a "lie" a polygraph examiner detected, only to find out there was no lie at all. 

She may be telling you most of the truth (if the first scenario is the true one), but you need to talk to her, get her to open up, and get all the facts in a way that make you logically believe she is telling the truth. Right now she is not doing that as her story does not seem entirely plausible. And you need to know if you're dealing with wife #1, or wife #2. For me....wife in scenario #1 may....may get a second chance. Wife in scenario #2? No freakin' way. Wife #1 got caught up in the moment, fell to a predator, and made a mistake (a huge one, yes). Wanted to hide it because she thought it of no consequence to you. Until she found out there would be a consequence to you (STD). Wife #2 is a lying, scheming, manipulative piece of crap who continues to hide the truth and could never be trusted again.

Listen...there are guys out there who are GOOD....well, not good, GREAT at what they do...getting women in bed. They are pick up artists. And I believe that many women, even if they do not think so themselves, could fall victim to them given the right set of circumstances. And once they make their conquest, they're off to the next target. You want an education? Start reading on some of the PUA (pick up artist) forums. These guys are great at what they do...and a woman who feels it is impossible to fall victim to them are kidding themselves. They need to be aware these guys exist so they see them coming from a distance, and not when she suddenly finds herself with her top off in the back of a damn pickup or cheap hotel.


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## Larry2626

Thank you Donny for your repsponse. I think it hits the nail on the head. I thank all of you for your responses. I feel like I at least have friends to talk to, or I'd just explode inside. I know it sounds stupid to say "I know my wife after 30 years of being with her" after the latest events we've all been discussing, but I truly, in my heart think she's wife #1. I think me ignoring her and substituting my bike and riding to get away from the humdrum of home life and non-stop work made her very lonely and just craving attention. I think this guy strummed all the right strings to take advantage of her lonliness. True, he invested a lot of time in her hoping to get laid, and I guess she fell for his words hook, line and sinker. I don't think she expected any long term relationship out of this, and I think she truly thought she was making a new friend or confidant, and was afraid to tell me because she knows how jealous I am. Not for any reason, but I don't even like other guys looking sideways at my wife. I really think the emotions or heat of the moment got her, and she had second thoughts right at the end. Hard to put in words why I think it, but I do. I can see it in her eyes, and hear it in her voice. I think she realizes we've hit rock bottom, and it could get worse if she lied any further. So I think the lies are done. Even though a polygraph is not 100% accurate, she's willing to try it. Where do I go to get her one, and how do I write up the questions the examiner gives her? That itself should be a thrill...holy crap!


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## SadSamIAm

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for most accurate assistance.


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## SadSamIAm

My guess is once you set up the polygraph and tell her you have done so, you will get another story. Maybe not until you are actually driving there, but it will happen.


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## donny64

SadSamIAm said:


> My guess is once you set up the polygraph and tell her you have done so, you will get another story. Maybe not until you are actually driving there, but it will happen.


For his sake, I hope that is not so, but it may be. That is the greatest power of the polygraph and why it is a good "tool" in a bag of many tools to use to get to the truth. A good examiner will get the truth out of many people before the exam even starts. In an instance like this, where the polygraph's revealing of a lie will have greater consequences than the person coming clean with the truth, the fear the polygraph causes can often bring out the truth in a person without ever getting the machine hooked up.

If he sets it up, by the time they walk in the front door of the examiner, I'd imagine he can be pretty confident he has most of the truth. But she has to believe it is happening, it is not a bluff, and she'll be found out if she's lying.

Having said that, I'd not subject my W to one if she had an affair, as I am not a huge believer in them (have seen with my own eyes how someone telling the truth can be found deceptive. But I would use the fear of that possibility to get as much truth out of her as possible.

As for forgiveness and moving on...that is why you need to know the truth of this. Is this completely out of her nature and she fell victim to a predatory guy? All else being ok in the marriage, I'd work on the marriage with her, and try to work towards forgiveness. If it was not that, and she's continuing to deceive, THAT I don't believe I could ever get over. I'd never trust her again.


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## Larry2626

You know, for the last 6 years I've been one of 8 Moderators running an international website for a specific brand and model of motorycle. We have inadvertently become our own support group, and technical & personal advice column, and I have made some of the best friends (I'll never meet) in my entire life in such a short time. Once a year about 30 of us get together somewhere in the Northeast to meet, eat and ride, and its really cool putting faces to the virtual folks I just chat with on line. That may never happen here, and I may agree or disagree with some or all of your advice, but I truly do appreciate the support and the comeradery you've all shown me in such a short time and the ability to open up and vent. That in and of itself is therapy and a start to healing. Thanks to all no matter how this mess ends.


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## MattMatt

Rocketman said:


> You know, for the last 6 years I've been one of 8 Moderators running an international website for a specific brand and model of motorycle. We have inadvertently become our own support group, and technical & personal advice column, and I have made some of the best friends (I'll never meet) in my entire life in such a short time. Once a year about 30 of us get together somewhere in the Northeast to meet, eat and ride, and its really cool putting faces to the virtual folks I just chat with on line. That may never happen here, and I may agree or disagree with some or all of your advice, but I truly do appreciate the support and the comeradery you've all shown me in such a short time and the ability to open up and vent. That in and of itself is therapy and a start to healing. Thanks to all no matter how this mess ends.


Oh! That kind of Rocketman? Cool!:smthumbup:


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## jnj express

Hey Rocket---go to your closest police station---they use them more than anyone else---they know who the best operators are cuz---those are the operators they use---the operator will tell you what he needs, once you set it all up

Don't tell her till the day prior, so she doesn't know what will hit her---that way the whole thing will have more effect


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## Larry2626

She works for the closest police station, so if its OK, I may have to find one a little farther from home. I don't need this thing getting out on the 5 o'clock news. It sucks bad enough right now. Kids will hopefully never know, so I have to keep it as low key as possible.
P.S. MattMatt, if you know me from the other site, I'm relying on you to be discrete.
Thanks,
RM


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## donny64

Rocketman said:


> She works for the closest police station, so if its OK, I may have to find one a little farther from home. I don't need this thing getting out on the 5 o'clock news. It sucks bad enough right now. Kids will hopefully never know, so I have to keep it as low key as possible.
> P.S. MattMatt, if you know me from the other site, I'm relying on you to be discrete.
> Thanks,
> RM


Rocketman,

If you're using the same handle on another website, contact a moderator now and have your handle (display name) changed here to something else. If someone googles "Rocketman" because they saw you on the other site and are looking for more info, it could bring up posts from this site in the search.


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## the guy

Alot of folks are going off on this and that and they have every right to. But brother let me tell you that in time it will all come together with or with out your wife.

The neat thing about time is it always gives us the answer, what sucks is waiting for it. So go get some IC and find the tools that will help you thru. I mean it may bring to a healthier marriage it may be a new chapter in a single life. The point is time will tell.

I think a poly is another great tool to help you in the process. It won't change the fact that "it" happened period but like many here it is a process and a stage and an action we take as individuals. We all have are different approachs...so yes there is no right or wrong answer...it is the action that we as individuals need to take.

Some guys agree to confronting OM some guys don't but as individuals we have our own process. Same with polies and details, some folks need them somefolks don't.


So please remember as painful as it is, its not what knocks us down that matters, it how we get back up that count.


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## MattMatt

Rocketman said:


> She works for the closest police station, so if its OK, I may have to find one a little farther from home. I don't need this thing getting out on the 5 o'clock news. It sucks bad enough right now. Kids will hopefully never know, so I have to keep it as low key as possible.
> P.S. MattMatt, if you know me from the other site, I'm relying on you to be discrete.
> Thanks,
> RM


I know nothing. Ever. 

But if what I think is right, it might not be, my late cousin used to ride one of those bikes.

Hopefully it will not get on the TV news or in the papers.

I feel for you, man. It's a tough place to be. Hopefully you will be clear.


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## Thor

Rocketman said:


> I left this morning at 7:30am for a 6 hour motorcycle ride upstate New York to try and clear my head and do some soul searching. It didn't help.





Rocketman said:


> She said she didn't plan the sex, it just happened and she hated it. I hate to say it, but I kind of believe her. If it was planned, she would have taken all her clothes off, not just one pants leg. She also would have gone to a hotel, rather than taking a chance of getting caught in a public parking lot. I also think, she would have had a shred of common sense and stopped to pick up a condom on the way. She may be a cheater, but she's really not an idiot.


Rocketman, welcome aboard. I am 51, married 30 years, several kids in college and high school. I am waiting for the results from my latest Herpes test, plus the rest of the panel (HIV, etc etc etc).

A good ride might help sometimes, but you need a clear head to avoid the idiots who try to run you over. Much better is good exercise. If your health allows it, go ride a bicycle, lift weight, do pushups, go for a long walk, etc. It really does help.

As to believing her, I can relate to that. The hive mind here will tell you that everything she says is suspect, and for good reason. I would say you should trust your instincts but be sure you have confirmation of everything before making a decision.

Standing in the clinic with my shorts down around my ankles was humiliating. Then the nurse gave me the required HIV counseling and asked what my understanding of "safe sex" was. I told her I used to think it was being in a monogamous 30 year marriage!

Your wife must get a full panel of STD tests, as must you. Some STDs don't easily test in men, so you must see her printed results (don't trust her words, get verification of everything). Trichomoniasis is one such infection.

You're in the early days of having this new knowledge, so just slow down a bit. It isn't going to get resolved in a few days or weeks. I disassembled and locked away all my firearms last summer, and they remain that way still. If you knew me, you would know that is a big thing for me to do. Punishing the POSOM is not worth what it will do to you, because we do not have a Justice System we have a Legal System. In a just world you would be right to educate the POSOM, but we do not live in that world.

You might think your wife is intelligent, but the sad reality is that the affair seems to make women stupid. I have read it over and over again on this and other forums where the cheater admits to not using protection against disease or pregnancy. They take risks in all ways, like doing it in parking lots, because a big part of the affair is the excitement and the illicitness.

No matter what happens, you will get through this. Your kids will too.


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## Chaparral

If I remember right, you said you tried to call the OM. Did you use her phone? Did you try texting from her phone?

Did you try the number on spokeo.com. He may have a buner phone too to keep it from his wife. 

I'm not suggesting this so you can hunt him down but his wife needs to know what he is doing.


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## lordmayhem

Rocketman said:


> Thank you Donny for your repsponse. I think it hits the nail on the head. I thank all of you for your responses. I feel like I at least have friends to talk to, or I'd just explode inside. I know it sounds stupid to say "I know my wife after 30 years of being with her" after the latest events we've all been discussing, but I truly, in my heart think she's wife #1. I think me ignoring her and substituting my bike and riding to get away from the humdrum of home life and non-stop work made her very lonely and just craving attention. I think this guy strummed all the right strings to take advantage of her lonliness. True, he invested a lot of time in her hoping to get laid, and I guess she fell for his words hook, line and sinker. I don't think she expected any long term relationship out of this, and I think she truly thought she was making a new friend or confidant, and was afraid to tell me because she knows how jealous I am. Not for any reason, but I don't even like other guys looking sideways at my wife. I really think the emotions or heat of the moment got her, and she had second thoughts right at the end. Hard to put in words why I think it, but I do. I can see it in her eyes, and hear it in her voice. I think she realizes we've hit rock bottom, and it could get worse if she lied any further. So I think the lies are done.


Now you're the one rationalizing her affair and making her out to be a victim, just like a few other BSs here. This isn't unusual though.



Rocketman said:


> Even though a polygraph is not 100% accurate, she's willing to try it. Where do I go to get her one, and how do I write up the questions the examiner gives her? That itself should be a thrill...holy crap!


Don't let anyone sway you about the polygraph test. They'll say its inaccurate and it's not allowed in court. Well guess what...eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, yet that's admissible in court. Think about it.

Look in your local yellow pages for one. A simple search for polygraph tests will bring up the examiners in your area.

The questions you submit for a polygraph have to be "yes" or "no" questions. Avoid opinionated questions and questions asking a quantity, which will yield inconclusive results. Avoid long winded questions as well. They should be short, to the point, simple Yes/No questions.

Examples:
Good question: Did you have sex with OM?
Bad question: How many times did you have sex with OM?

You get the picture.


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## Heartbroke

I am so sorry to hear this. I am going through the almost exact same thing with my wife at the moment. I have not yet been out to be tested for STD's but I know I should soon. My world feels as if it has been pulled in half with the halfs still wanting to fight. 

One thing I would like to relay you from my experience knowing who the OM is, will not really help you get through this any faster. I know who my wifes A was with and all I have is uncontrolable urge to do him bodily harm. It is not worth it "atleast that is what I keep telling myself" this is between you two.


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## Bellavista

IF her story is true, this guy needs to be exposed. Do you have a light weight current affair programme that would interview her & do a face block out & voice change? I know the ones in Australia like Today Tonight or a Current Affair would be all over a story of a predator like a rash. Tell her that he needs to be exposed to prevent what happened to her happening again & that there are probably other women out there in the same situation. That is, IF she is telling the truth.
Ask her if she has seen the Arnie movie "True Lies". If not, watch it together & see her reaction when Jamie Lee Curtis is being wooed by a slime ball.


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## Larry2626

Going on TV is taking this too far. She says she called him on the TracPhone only about 3 or 4 times, only necessary when her work schedule post changed. So she didn't use it that often. Since it was almost 9 months ago, she gave me 2 numbers which she's pretty sure is it. I call from my cell# with my # blocked. One # says the caller you're trying to reach is not accepting calls. The 2nd # just lets me leave a voice mail. I sent a couple of texts to both #'s, but haven't heard back yet. In retrospect, it will really do no good finding this guy. Just gives me something else to focus on, while I should be blaming her 100% and focusing on what's right for me. She says she wants to stay married to me, still loves me and never loved him, realizes life won't ever be the way it was, but wants to try.

I started crying at 4:30 this morning and stopped around 5:15. Haven't cried that much in years. Guess it might be a good thing.


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## warlock07

t_hopper_2012 said:


> I am also very, very skeptical of her story. It does a number of things very well (too well):
> 
> a) covers the facts in evidence (she has herpes, that must be explained ... so, she got it from another man)
> 
> b) shows her in the best possible light (only had sex one time, lasted 10 seconds before she started to cry and stopped - clearly, her conscience finally got the better of her - that and she started to think of her husband who she loves so much)
> 
> c) makes it impossible to even look for this other man (it was 9 months ago, he disappeared, she can't remember the phone numbers, the phone numbers don't work, it was a burner phone). Why, by the way, does she want to make it impossible to find the other man? Because if there were enough clues to make it worthwhile, R-Man would start digging and find out that there really isn't another man.
> 
> Now, some may say that there is one other story that would cover the facts and make it look even better: the OM forced himself on her. She never wanted to do it. [Let me stop right here before I get slammed. Rape is a horrible thing. "No" should always mean "No". No man ever has a right to 'take' what a woman is not willing to 'give'. I'm just hypothesizing on her story, here.] Anyway. Why not use this story? Because she knows her husband. Because she knows he would never stop until he found the guy. Because she knows he would involve the police and they would interview her and start going door-to-door in the neighborhood around her crossing guard post to see if anybody got the license of the OM's truck. This would quickly lead to truth: the OM in this story is a ghost, a phantom, a mirage. He only serves to keep the R-Man from digging any further and getting to the truth: the affair involved somebody local - somebody that they probably both know.
> 
> Now, R-Man, if this rings true for you, don't go off half-****ed. Your wife is going to stick to this story until the day she dies. If you want the truth out of her, you're going to have to do more than just ask her.
> 
> The question is, R-Man, do you want the truth?


Superb post. Notice how every way to the OM is closed. She clearly planned out what to tell you. OM might not be local but the incident was more recent. Check her phone records. If she has a smart phone, you can retrieve the texts.


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## warlock07

Rocketman said:


> *She said she didn't plan the sex, it just happened and she hated it. I hate to say it, but I kind of believe her. If it was planned, she would have taken all her clothes off, not just one pants leg. She also would have gone to a hotel, rather than taking a chance of getting caught in a public parking lot. I also think, she would have had a shred of common sense and stopped to pick up a condom on the way. She may be a cheater, but she's really not an idiot.*



Who told you all that ? Your wife, right? 

How do you know they did not go to a hotel ? Your wife

How did you know they did it once? Your wife

How do you that she did not like it? Your wife

How do know it was just 10 sec? Your wife

How did you know she did not use a condom? Oh, Herpes!! 

Look, she minimized every other action that could not prove.Your wife is not an idiot. She is very manipulative and clever.Your are the naive one here.

Never have I seen so much consensus on TAM. She is clearly lying.


----------



## survivorwife

Rocketman said:


> Going on TV is taking this too far. She says she called him on the TracPhone only about 3 or 4 times, only necessary when her work schedule post changed. So she didn't use it that often. Since it was almost 9 months ago, she gave me 2 numbers which she's pretty sure is it. I call from my cell# with my # blocked. One # says the caller you're trying to reach is not accepting calls. The 2nd # just lets me leave a voice mail. I sent a couple of texts to both #'s, but haven't heard back yet. In retrospect, it will really do no good finding this guy. Just gives me something else to focus on, while I should be blaming her 100% and focusing on what's right for me. *She says she wants to stay married to me, still loves me and never loved him*, realizes life won't ever be the way it was, but wants to try.
> 
> I started crying at 4:30 this morning and stopped around 5:15. Haven't cried that much in years. Guess it might be a good thing.


Yes, the crying does help to clean up the cobwebs. Get it all out and begin to focus with less emotion and more logic. Happens to all of us after the shock wears off. So I read your post and went to your very first post as something sort of stands out for me. Are you now her back up plan?

Now before you answer that, let's go back to your first post. He told her (at some point) that he loved her and wanted her to leave you, right? They had conversations (plural) and coffee (plural) so there was a continuous "relationship" and at no point during this "relationship" did the alarm bells go off for her, right? So, according to her narrative, the point in which she decided she "could not do this" was *not* during those conversation, *not* when she got into his vehicle, *not* when she was sitting up front with him, *not* when she got into the back, *not* when she begin to have sex with him, but *only* after penetration?

And others are correct. This isn't really about him; it's about your wife. Your wife was the person who met with him several times. Your wife called him. You wife spoke to him. He wanted her to leave you, and she still continued to see him. At no point during that part of the relationship did she get a conscious and back away. Only, according to her, at the time of penetration did she suddenly have an epiphany. And that's what she desperately wants you to believe.

Yes, it is easy for a stranger to pick apart her narrative. None of us know you or her personally, so what you get is basically word analysis based on our own personal experiences. We have been there, otherwise we would not be here. Technically, she is "damaged goods" in the dating market, but she has you. She had you then as well. She risked your relationship (in more ways then one) to pursue the OM. And only now, that she can no longer put herself out in the dating market, does she now turn back to you.


----------



## Larry2626

This must be exactly what it feels like being diagnosed with terminal cancer-denial, anger, acceptance. But at least cancer evenutally ends when they plant you in the ground. This just keeps going on and on....


----------



## Sara8

Rocketman:

Sorry you are here.

I recently read that a jury awarded a girlfriend of a man who gave her herpes, $900,000 even though the judge wanted to throw the case out. 

You can google this. 

There is a show called cheaters in which the director of the show mentioned that cheating is on the rise because there is no punishment for it. 

If you give your mate or girlfriend an incurable disease there was no consequence. 

There should be. HIV is a death sentence.

The penalty for cheating used to be a death sentence. Perhaps because of incurable STDS back then. 

I do agree that cheating is on the rise because there is no real consequence to cheating, anymore. There is really no financial consequence as I read that a woman can do the entire football team and still get alimony and child custody. 

Also a father who has been cuckolded and is raising a non-biological child fathered by the wife's affair partner still has to pay child support. Kinda' weird. 

We live in a society that seems to reward cheating. 

I am not sure why someone predisposed to cheating bothers to marry, but they do. 

BTW: You might want to run a $200 DNA test on any kids you and your wife have.


----------



## snap

Her only reason to disclosure was STD. Her hiding the OM's identity from you points to continuing affair.

Perhaps she feels now that the herpes issue is sorted out, it's worth keeping it on.


----------



## snap

The OM could be your neighbor you greet every morning. You need to know who he is, or it will eat you forever.


----------



## Sara8

Rocketman said:


> Thank you Donny for your repsponse. I think it hits the nail on the head. I thank all of you for your responses. I feel like I at least have friends to talk to, or I'd just explode inside. I know it sounds stupid to say "I know my wife after 30 years of being with her" after the latest events we've all been discussing, but I truly, in my heart think she's wife #1. I think me ignoring her and substituting my bike and riding to get away from the humdrum of home life and non-stop work made her very lonely and just craving attention. I think this guy strummed all the right strings to take advantage of her lonliness. True, he invested a lot of time in her hoping to get laid, and I guess she fell for his words hook, line and sinker. I don't think she expected any long term relationship out of this, and I think she truly thought she was making a new friend or confidant, and was afraid to tell me because she knows how jealous I am. Not for any reason, but I don't even like other guys looking sideways at my wife. I really think the emotions or heat of the moment got her, and she had second thoughts right at the end. Hard to put in words why I think it, but I do. I can see it in her eyes, and hear it in her voice. I think she realizes we've hit rock bottom, and it could get worse if she lied any further. So I think the lies are done. Even though a polygraph is not 100% accurate, she's willing to try it. Where do I go to get her one, and how do I write up the questions the examiner gives her? That itself should be a thrill...holy crap!


Please don't make excuses for why your wife cheated. There are none, as lord mayhem and others noted. 

My spouse frequently went on boy's nights out and men only camping trips for a full week. (later uses some as a cover for his trysts) I was alone, but never lonely. I have no trouble entertaining myself, without finding other men to keep me entertained. 

My STBEH was also not the most attentive physically and I still did not consider cheating. 

Your wife willingly had an affair and thought nothing of exposing you to STDS. HIV Is a death sentence.

In addition, the OW in my situation when outed to her husband, blamed my STBEH claiming he came onto her. 

That was not true. I saw the emails. She contacted him at work FIRST through his website. This woman also was a confessed serial cheater who talked about lap dances from male strippers, girl girl stuff and one offs

I also read the emails, texts and heard voice mails in which this woman was really hot for sex and pushing for it, even though my STBEH appeared to be trying to twice end it. 

Her language, too, was the most childish pornographic language I have read since sneak reading dime store porn novels as a teen ager. 

This women was living a total fantasy and she obviously loved it. 

She also had nothing nice to say about her loyal unsuspecting still unbelieving husband. 

She mentioned he disgusted her, he was hairy, he was boring and stupid. (the guy is wealthy and successful, the OW has maids and cooks and a nanny. How stupid could her loyal spouse be? trusting yes, but not stupid)

My STBEH painted me as boring but at least complimented me physically and did not say he was disgusted by me. Only bored, sexually, after 20 years together. 

I have haunted boards where OW's post. It seems the OWs are more disrespectful toward the husband than are cheater men. 

So, don't believe a word she says about the guy being the aggressor.

Also, studies show that cheating women is alarmingly on the rise. They woman are cheating more than well to do mid-life-crisis men. 

The women who cheat are working or bored housewives with children, too. 

It's a good for the goose good for the gander mentality.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

warlock07 said:


> Who told you all that ? Your wife, right?
> 
> How do you know they did not go to a hotel ? Your wife
> 
> How did you know they did it once? Your wife
> 
> How do you that she did not like it? Your wife
> 
> How do know it was just 10 sec? Your wife
> 
> How did you know she did not use a condom? Oh, Herpes!!
> 
> Look, she minimized every other action that could not prove.Your wife is not an idiot. She is very manipulative and clever.Your are the naive one here.
> 
> Never have I seen so much consensus on TAM. She is clearly lying.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## lordmayhem

Rocketman said:


> She says she called him on the TracPhone only about 3 or 4 times, only necessary when her work schedule post changed.


Of course she only says she called him 3 or 4 times. 



Rocketman said:


> So she didn't use it that often.


Of course she'll say she didn't use it a lot. 



Rocketman said:


> Since it was almost 9 months ago, she gave me 2 numbers which she's pretty sure is it.


Now you take her word for it that these are the numbers. You don't know if its the OMs number or not.



Rocketman said:


> I call from my cell# with my # blocked. One # says the caller you're trying to reach is not accepting calls. The 2nd # just lets me leave a voice mail. I sent a couple of texts to both #'s, but haven't heard back yet. In retrospect, it will really do no good finding this guy.


You need to find this guy and find out if he's married or has a serious girlfriend so you can expose the affair. For one, its the right thing to do and two, it helps kill the affair. You don't know at all if its gone underground or not. She had a secret phone that you didn't know about for months, how do you know she still doesn't have it? She only told you she gave it back to the OM. At this point, you can't believe a word she says.



Rocketman said:


> Just gives me something else to focus on, while I should be blaming her 100% and focusing on what's right for me. She says she wants to stay married to me, still loves me and never loved him, realizes life won't ever be the way it was, but wants to try.


She wants to cake eat.



Rocketman said:


> I started crying at 4:30 this morning and stopped around 5:15. Haven't cried that much in years. Guess it might be a good thing.


As long as its not in front of her.


----------



## mahike

Heartbroke said:


> I am so sorry to hear this. I am going through the almost exact same thing with my wife at the moment. I have not yet been out to be tested for STD's but I know I should soon. My world feels as if it has been pulled in half with the halfs still wanting to fight.
> 
> One thing I would like to relay you from my experience knowing who the OM is, will not really help you get through this any faster. I know who my wifes A was with and all I have is uncontrolable urge to do him bodily harm. It is not worth it "atleast that is what I keep telling myself" this is between you two.


The Anger issues will calm down with time and with talking it out with someone. That is very important. I kept thinking about my kids having to visit me in jail and that stopped me cold. 

Doing something physical will help. I have done three things that will help. The batting cages, driving range, and I have gone shooting with some friends. I put his face on everything I hit and shoot. They have no idea why I am smiling from ear to ear.

I understand about the STD test. I would not go to my doctor so I went to a clinic. A real low spot in my life. I have let my wife know about that one over and over again


----------



## costa200

Rocketman, you need to take your time and create distance to evaluate what you want. Your wife story is bogus:

*1- The other guy is a predator with no know contacts that is not from the area that took advantage...*

Eeeeerrr... So, your wife, that has never cheated on you (official story here), is going to start some heavy EA with a dude at a crosswalk. Proceeds to have tens of dates just like that because he commented on cars and brought her donuts. Ain't that a bit of an out of character thing? She doesn't remember his name and then she remembers? After 20 dates?

How old is your wife? Is she an innocent teenager that has never been around men? Was it that easy for you to get it on with her?

*2- She drive to a make out area, gets on the back seat, massages the other guy's penis and other assorted heavy petting, proceeds to have intercourse that lasts 10 seconds and she breaks down crying because she loves you...
*
So, this "she loves" you bit is only reached when she is at a high of sexual excitement after hours leading up to it? Really? Or is this just the tamest, less revealing to you, sex situation that explains why she now has herpes? Honestly, this is a movie script. I've never seen or heard an honest report of a woman stopping in the middle of sex because she is suddenly aware she is cheating. At the height of sexual excitement this is highly unlikely. 


*3- She gets herpes from this encounter (possible but imagine the bad luck of this woman) and 9 months later she tells you about it.
*
This part is the most believable. Not the 9 months bit, but the FACT that she has herpes (and god knows what else). In fact, as she admitted, this forced her to tell you and it is, at the moment the only verifiable thing you got.

I'm going to go that extra mile here. Take note that i've never, as far as i know, been cheated on, so this isn't due to some trauma i had. I honestly just want to help out. 

Let me tell you what i think is going on here. She didn't have an affair with some stranger 9 months ago that you now can't find and/or contact. She probably hooked up to someone close to you and was forced to invent this crap story to give the tamest quasi plausible story she could come up with. This while giving you the old "you didn't pay enough attention to me" Horse**** women always seem to say (from RL situations i've been described about and this board) when they are caught. 

What you need to do, instead of stalking out your town areas looking for a guy that doesn't exist, is to look much closer. Guys who are around her. Guys she contacts regularly. Possibly guys she has even presented you. Or, damnable as it may be, people in your family or cousins of hers. 

And dude... If you do see some guy driving around in a car that fits the bill remember that she might have just seen that schmuck pass her by everyday and he may not even know who she is. So you may be hunting down some totally innocent guy. And i'm betting that you would not believe him if he said exactly that he doesn't even know what you're talking about.

If you're going for a big R with this woman make her spill her beans. 100% disclosure is a must.


----------



## Thor

Heartbroke said:


> I am so sorry to hear this. I am going through the almost exact same thing with my wife at the moment. I have not yet been out to be tested for STD's but I know I should soon.


Do not have sex of any kind with her until you both get tested. There is a 12 week wait for the Herpes test from last contact, and a 3 to 6 month wait for HIV. Just because you test clean today does not mean _she_ is clean.

I made that mistake....


----------



## crossbar

Rocketman;She says as soon as they started doing it said:


> I'm guessing that it was more than this. One thing about cheaters, if you don't have evidence to prove otherwise, a cheater will always tell you the bare minimum to make it seem not as bad as what it really is. But, you know what? Damage is done. She has a disease she's going to have for the rest of her life. And with herpes. even wearing a condom won't fully protect you from contracting it. All it takes is for some fluid to get on your exposed skin while she has an outbreak and....well.
> 
> If you are deciding to reconcile this marriage, then I strongly suggest that you get into marriage counseling. She has done something that is going to changes every aspect of your life. Not only mentally, but sexually.


----------



## bandit.45

crossbar said:


> I'm guessing that it was more than this. One thing about cheaters, if you don't have evidence to prove otherwise, a cheater will always tell you the bare minimum to make it seem not as bad as what it really is. But, you know what? Damage is done. She has a disease she's going to have for the rest of her life. And with herpes. even wearing a condom won't fully protect you from contracting it. All it takes is for some fluid to get on your exposed skin while she has an outbreak and....well.
> 
> If you are deciding to reconcile this marriage, then I strongly suggest that you get into marriage counseling. She has done something that is going to changes every aspect of your life. Not only mentally, but sexually.


Cross have we ever seen an instance on this site where the WS didn't trickle truth to some extent? They all do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Baffled01

Gave her a trac phone, has Herpes, this guy is a real pro. Probably has moved on to greener pastures. Your wife has definetly not told toe whole truth tho.


----------



## anonymouskitty

bandit.45 said:


> Cross have we ever seen an instance on this site where the WS didn't trickle truth to some extent? They all do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is why you need to close down all their escape routes. People need to learn the art of drilling the truth out of their WSs, this is exactly why you need to collect enough evidence and a surprise confrontation works best cause their guards are down.

Most people just jump into it without having facts to back up their argument, no wonder the WS has a nice time leading the BS in circle of self doubt


----------



## deejov

Most of the responses are from men.

From a woman's perspective, I have to say I kinda believe her that this is how it went down. Married 30 years, she was a virgin. A woman like that... it might take a loooong time of talking and coffee to win her trust. 

Yup, it was wrong for her to do it. It's not an excuse. 

It was an EA that went physical, and she didn't mean for it to go that far. Maybe he didn't either. But they were getting SOMETHING out of all those coffee dates. Both of them. 

As for the herpes... even the poster who said he didn't get it from his wife for 1.5 years.... it took that long for him to show symptoms. That's all. He could have contracted it the very first time they had unprotected sex. 

As for the guy disappearing... if he's married, of course he is hiding. And of course he's not gonna tell her any correct details. He's got his own life to protect. 

My thoughts would be more around what the heck were they talking about every time they met? What personal information did she share with him? Does this guy know your name? 

I get the drift she was starving for a friend to talk to. Not that she is a serial cheater, at all. If they were chatting online, I would bet she would have never even met him. 

Just my gut instinct on this, as a woman. The trickle truth would be what she told him, and what they talked about.


----------



## anonymouskitty

deejov said:


> Most of the responses are from men.
> 
> From a woman's perspective, I have to say I kinda believe her that this is how it went down. Married 30 years, she was a virgin.* A woman like that... it might take a loooong time of talking and coffee to win her trust*.
> 
> Yup, it was wrong for her to do it. It's not an excuse.
> 
> It was an EA that went physical, and she didn't mean for it to go that far. Maybe he didn't either. But they were getting SOMETHING out of all those coffee dates. Both of them.
> 
> As for the herpes... even the poster who said he didn't get it from his wife for 1.5 years.... it took that long for him to show symptoms. That's all. He could have contracted it the very first time they had unprotected sex.
> 
> *As for the guy disappearing... if he's married, of course he is hiding. And of course he's not gonna tell her any correct details. He's got his own life to protect.*
> 
> My thoughts would be more around what the heck were they talking about every time they met? What personal information did she share with him? Does this guy know your name?
> 
> *I get the drift she was starving for a friend to talk to. Not that she is a serial cheater, at all. If they were chatting online, I would bet she would have never even met him.*
> 
> Just my gut instinct on this, as a woman. *The trickle truth would be what she told him, and what they talked about*.



:lol: This is the fundamental difference between the way a man looks at it and a woman looks at it.

1. Being a virgin does not guarantee virtue madam, we don't know if she decided to skip the coffee go down or not , we need facts now.

2. I hardly think the OM's disappeared, I'm of the opinion that he's being conveiniently left out of the story for OP's wife's own good

3. Justifications again.

4.TT has little to do with what they talked about and more to do with what she did with him, that she refuses to divulge to the OP fearing his reactions, thus protecting herself


----------



## Larry2626

Here's what I did today.
First I went to a local private investigator. Retired policeman for 30 years, and a PI for the past 10. Primarily to see if he could help me find the guy. He said he deals with these issues daily and for $75 he'd try, but his best advice was to forget the guy, as even if he found him and told me who he was, the ramifications of taking my anger out on him would be worse for me and my family in the long run and he's never seen anything good come out of knowing who the guy is. Slowly but surely I am putting the "OM" out of my head. Second I asked him about the polygraph. He said for $500 he could do it, but I should save my money and spend it on a therapist. He said whether she had sex with one guy once, or 50 guys 10 times, the fact is it happened and there's no erasing it. If she passed or failed the polygraph it won't change the past. Move on and deal with now and the future, not the past. He felt that if she is still hiding anything, or not telling me the truth, a therapist would be able to get it out of her.
I then contacted my insurance company, and the woman on the phone was a clinical phycologist for 30 years. She cried when I told her my story. She recommended several local counselors. I felt that my wife could better relate to, and be more open with a woman therapist, than a male one, and we'd have a better chance of getting to the "Why's" if she felt more comfortable. I don't need any finger pointing, and having someone blame me for pushing her away, or someone admonishing her for what she did. I need an open mind, and good practical advise to deal with the now, and the where are we going from here. I called one, and she got all choked up hearing my story. My wife and I were approved by the insurance for 20 visits and they start next Tuesday, 7/9 @ 4:30at her office. My wife is willing to do this, and I feel a tiny bit better that I now have some direction, as littlel as it is, every little bit helps. Once I get the results of my blood test in a couple of days, we'll see what kind of mood I'm in then.
Thanks again for all your advice.


----------



## crossbar

bandit.45 said:


> Cross have we ever seen an instance on this site where the WS didn't trickle truth to some extent? They all do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, you know it and I know it. So, I believe it's our duty to inform the newly betrayed and unfortunates of all the tricks and text book plays these cheaters will try and pull on these guys and gals.


----------



## Gabriel

Larry2626 said:


> Here's what I did today.
> First I went to a local private investigator. Retired policeman for 30 years, and a PI for the past 10. Primarily to see if he could help me find the guy. He said he deals with these issues daily and for $75 he'd try, but his best advice was to forget the guy, as even if he found him and told me who he was, the ramifications of taking my anger out on him would be worse for me and my family in the long run and he's never seen anything good come out of knowing who the guy is. Slowly but surely I am putting the "OM" out of my head. Second I asked him about the polygraph. He said for $500 he could do it, but I should save my money and spend it on a therapist. He said whether she had sex with one guy once, or 50 guys 10 times, the fact is it happened and there's no erasing it. If she passed or failed the polygraph it won't change the past. Move on and deal with now and the future, not the past. He felt that if she is still hiding anything, or not telling me the truth, a therapist would be able to get it out of her.
> I then contacted my insurance company, and the woman on the phone was a clinical phycologist for 30 years. She cried when I told her my story. She recommended several local counselors. I felt that my wife could better relate to, and be more open with a woman therapist, than a male one, and we'd have a better chance of getting to the "Why's" if she felt more comfortable. I don't need any finger pointing, and having someone blame me for pushing her away, or someone admonishing her for what she did. I need an open mind, and good practical advise to deal with the now, and the where are we going from here. I called one, and she got all choked up hearing my story. My wife and I were approved by the insurance for 20 visits and they start next Tuesday, 7/9 @ 4:30at her office. My wife is willing to do this, and I feel a tiny bit better that I now have some direction, as littlel as it is, every little bit helps. Once I get the results of my blood test in a couple of days, we'll see what kind of mood I'm in then.
> Thanks again for all your advice.


This sounds like progress. But YOU are the one who needs to decide exactly what you need to know. The therapist is bound to not disclose what is said between him/her and your W, so your W could tell him X and you Y, and you'd never know.

So if you have to know exactly what went down, this isn't the way to do it. However, it is a positive step and should help you both in other ways.

Good luck.


----------



## Stephanie.Jackson

I want to add something even though I promised myself I would never come back to this forum again due to the rude comments.

When I was 16, I was "talking to" my husband and another guy - just started the same weekend actually. But I had spent a lot of time with my husband and I knew I liked him more. Hadn't had sex with either one of them yet. Eventually, I found myself in the back seat of my car with the other guy, and I remember him asking "can we have sex yet?" and I immediately blurted out "yes" and so he pulled my pajamas down, pulled his shorts down, and put about half of himself into me. And I started crying after realizing this actually wasn't what I wanted, and made him get off of me. It lasted maybe 10-15 seconds tops. Looking back it was kinda funny cause then the other guy started crying cause he wanted me to be his G/F (wow) and I then decided I knew my answer and I wanted to be with my now-husband.

Now to my affair. I had a 10 month long EA/PA with this man (I'm 22 now), which ended 15 days ago. I still vividly remember me rationalizing it when I knew we were about to have sex for the first time. For about 15 seconds my rationalization kept my mind preoccupied that what I was doing wasn't TOO bad. But then I told him "I can't keep doing this" and he kinda dragged out the whole thrusting thing another 10 or so seconds before finally pulling out. And I cried after he was finally out. It felt great but the guilt was eating me alive. Yes we eventually had sex again a few days later, but the point is, as UNLIKELY as it SOUNDS, it's not 100% guaranteed that she actually didn't say "okay stop I am not enjoying this enough (mentally) to keep going." Cause so far I have done this twice, once while not in a fully committed relationship, and once when I was married. 

However, her story has lots of holes in it. Maybe the first time she told him to stop. Perhaps they did this multiple times and the second time she finally could go through with it ("I've done it before technically, so why not just finish").

Ya wanna hear something crappy about my affair? When he was on top and just about to put it in, I said "are you clean?" cause there weren't any condoms. And he said "yes", so we proceeded. EIGHT MONTHS LATER we were discussing how we didn't use protection the first time, and I was like "well I asked if you were clean and you said yes so I believed you" and he goes "Umm you've never asked if I was clean." Turns out, he misheard me and he THOUGHT I said "you sure you want to do this?"... *Face palm*. Luckily though he is clean and gets paid to get tested once a month and I've seen the reports... long story.


----------



## Sara8

deejov said:


> Most of the responses are from men.
> 
> From a woman's perspective, I have to say I kinda believe her that this is how it went down. Married 30 years, she was a virgin. A woman like that... it might take a loooong time of talking and coffee to win her trust.
> 
> Yup, it was wrong for her to do it. It's not an excuse.
> 
> It was an EA that went physical, and she didn't mean for it to go that far. Maybe he didn't either. But they were getting SOMETHING out of all those coffee dates. Both of them.
> 
> As for the herpes... even the poster who said he didn't get it from his wife for 1.5 years.... it took that long for him to show symptoms. That's all. He could have contracted it the very first time they had unprotected sex.
> 
> As for the guy disappearing... if he's married, of course he is hiding. And of course he's not gonna tell her any correct details. He's got his own life to protect.
> 
> My thoughts would be more around what the heck were they talking about every time they met? What personal information did she share with him? Does this guy know your name?
> 
> I get the drift she was starving for a friend to talk to. Not that she is a serial cheater, at all. If they were chatting online, I would bet she would have never even met him.
> 
> Just my gut instinct on this, as a woman. The trickle truth would be what she told him, and what they talked about.


Sorry, I am a woman, a betrayed spouse. 

My bet is this lady is a serial cheater. 

The OW in my case lied to her husband and is still lying and he like a doofus believes her. 

She is a confessed serial cheater, she has had one nighters in club bathrooms, in airplanes and at least one other Long term affair prior to my STBEH's affair with her. 

She also claimed she was lonely and neglected be cause her husband works his arse off to provide her a lavish lifestyle.


----------



## Larry2626

I'm not defending my wife by no means, but it sure seems like the majority of you here really crucify the cheater, and leave no room for doubt. I also don't really differentiate sex from the (1) going in his truck in the first place; (2) going in the back seat with him "just for some hugs"; (3) straddling him and deep kissing him; (4) pulling down her shirt and him kissing her breasts; (5) unzipping his fly and her just "holding" his thing without stroking it, or whatever; and (6) the actual act of penentration. I've know this woman a long time, and have had sex with her a bazillion times. I know she loves oral sex. I asked her if she did this to him, and she said no, that would be disgusting. But I know her, and can't believe she did everything else but that. I also know its easier to get laid if you have no pants on at all. Why then did she just take off one shoe, pull down one pants leg, and just pull her underwear to the side, instead of removing it completely? She says over and over, she never planned on intercourse. She just thought she'd leave her underwear on and rub against his private parts, and it just went too far. Knowing she now has herpes, why would she keep lying and telling me it only happened once, if it were continuing? I know she might think that minimalizing the story might not make me feel as bad, or make it seem more like it was in the heat of the moment and not emotional, but I can't rationalize continuing lying once you've admitted to it. Its like killing someone. If you shot them then stabbed them, why not admit to both, rather than one? Dead is dead. I know you're all talking from experience, and I empathize with all of you, but isn't there a possibility that now she's actually telling the truth? Seems there's nothing left to gain or hide by lying any more.


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## crossbar

Stephanie.Jackson said:


> Luckily though he is clean and gets paid to get tested once a month and I've seen the reports... long story.



Gets paid to get tested once a month? What the hell kind of job does he have? Porn Star?


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## bandit.45

Don't expect anything rational from her. Rationality goes out the window when a cheater is stonewalling and lying to you. 

She is trickle truthing because she is scared you will kick her out and divorce her. If you can take her admitting she had full-blown intercourse with the guy, tell her so and make her feel safe enough to do so. If you promise her that you will put aside thoughts of D if she tells the truth, stick to your promise.


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## Stephanie.Jackson

crossbar said:


> Gets paid to get tested once a month? What the hell kind of job does he have? Porn Star?


LMAO! No, he is a 100% disabled veteran and 100% unemployable for the rest of his life with social security benefits. At the age of 26. Well, they overly compensate him any time he has to go to the VA hospital for anything. And so once a month he gets tested for STD's. I dunno if it's playing the system or not because he has admitted to being a man ***** in the past. Who knows, who cares.


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## survivorwife

Larry2626 said:


> I'm not defending my wife by no means, but it sure seems like the majority of you here really crucify the cheater, and leave no room for doubt. I also don't really differentiate sex from the (1) going in his truck in the first place; (2) going in the back seat with him "just for some hugs"; (3) straddling him and deep kissing him; (4) pulling down her shirt and him kissing her breasts; (5) unzipping his fly and her just "holding" his thing without stroking it, or whatever; and (6) the actual act of penentration. I've know this woman a long time, and have had sex with her a bazillion times. I know she loves oral sex. I asked her if she did this to him, and she said no, that would be disgusting. But I know her, and can't believe she did everything else but that. I also know its easier to get laid if you have no pants on at all. Why then did she just take off one shoe, pull down one pants leg, and just pull her underwear to the side, instead of removing it completely? She says over and over, she never planned on intercourse. She just thought she'd leave her underwear on and rub against his private parts, and it just went too far. Knowing she now has herpes, why would she keep lying and telling me it only happened once, if it were continuing? *I know she might think that minimalizing the story might not make me feel as bad,* or make it seem more like it was in the heat of the moment and not emotional, but I can't rationalize continuing lying once you've admitted to it. *Its like killing someone.* If you shot them then stabbed them, why not admit to both, rather than one? Dead is dead. I know you're all talking from experience, and I empathize with all of you, *but isn't there a possibility that now she's actually telling the truth? Seems there's nothing left to gain or hide by lying any more.*


Many of us have learned the hard way. Just like you, we got bits and pieces of the truth (trickle truth) just enough to hurt us, not enough to end the marriage. I suppose that there are some here, like yourself, that would accept the story "as is", deal with the hurt, and move the marriage ahead (rug sweeping). What you might want to ask yourself is this. What would I tell my spouse under similar circumstances had the roles been reversed. Just enough to get the facts (herpes) out? Just enough to be forgiven for? Just enough to keep the marriage intact? Would you invent parts and tell partial truths in order for this episode to just go away? 

Realistically, if she wants to stay married to you, she will tell you only what will get that result. You are angry (understandably) you are hurt (understandably), but you are still there. That is the result she is looking for. Would she lie to get that result? I think so.

Yes, some of us here do "crucify the cheater". That person has betrayed their marriage vows. My STBXH betrayed his vows to me. My eyes are wide open now. While I have moved out and am doing well. I wish I had come to this site earlier, while still living in the marital home as I have found that the people here have great instincts, based on their own experiences, and are willing to share their knowledge. You came here with a problem. They have offered sound advise based on experience and have pointed out certain discrepancies in your W's story. Why? Because they have heard it before. Same old song.

But back to your general comments about your particular situation, yes, she does stand to gain by lying to you. The whole truth might just end your marriage.


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## lordmayhem

survivorwife said:


> Many of us have learned the hard way. Just like you, we got bits and pieces of the truth (trickle truth) just enough to hurt us, not enough to end the marriage. I suppose that there are some here, like yourself, that would accept the story "as is", deal with the hurt, and move the marriage ahead (rug sweeping). What you might want to ask yourself is this. What would I tell my spouse under similar circumstances had the roles been reversed. Just enough to get the facts (herpes) out? Just enough to be forgiven for? Just enough to keep the marriage intact? Would you invent parts and tell partial truths in order for this episode to just go away?
> 
> Realistically, if she wants to stay married to you, she will tell you only what will get that result. You are angry (understandably) you are hurt (understandably), but you are still there. That is the result she is looking for. Would she lie to get that result? I think so.
> 
> Yes, some of us here do "crucify the cheater". That person has betrayed their marriage vows. My STBXH betrayed his vows to me. My eyes are wide open now. While I have moved out and am doing well. I wish I had come to this site earlier, while still living in the marital home as I have found that the people here have great instincts, based on their own experiences, and are willing to share their knowledge. You came here with a problem. They have offered sound advise based on experience and have pointed out certain discrepancies in your W's story. Why? Because they have heard it before. Same old song.
> 
> But back to your general comments about your particular situation, yes, she does stand to gain by lying to you. The whole truth might just end your marriage.


:iagree:

Well said!


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## Acabado

Go with the poly, parking lots confession are priceless.
Still, i don't know why, i'm still with my change of mind: I believe her story!
Likely first time since fall '09!


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## anonymouskitty

If it was one thing I didn't have to contend with, it was TT. larry you'll have to work on the assumption that anything she says is a lie unless proven to be true


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## Larry2626

Please don't get me wrong as right now you're the only friends and advice I have to try and keep my sanity. But if she really wanted to leave, she'd already be gone. If she really wanted our marriage over, she would have said so. If she was so unhappy with me, this would have been her ticket out so she could run around and screw the world if she wanted to. Why would she say she wants to stay married to me if she's an inch away from her freedom? The other day she said, if I don't have herpes when the blood test comes back, and if I want to leave her to find someone else to have a normal sexual relationship, I could go, and start over. She also said if I wanted to stay at home and keep the kids, she would leave, and again I could start my life over again. But she's said over and over again, she wants to stay and make this work.


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## anonymouskitty

Call her bluff then mate, see how that works. Larry its not about her leaving or staying, its about you, What do you want? a D or an R. 

if you want the D call her bluff and stick to your guns.

If you want a R, she needs to tell you the whole truth and nothing but that, the only way you're going to get this is if you have a fact checker. email accounts, cellphone bills, a poly, anything and everything that gets the truth out of her


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## SadSamIAm

Larry2626 said:


> Please don't get me wrong as right now you're the only friends and advice I have to try and keep my sanity. But if she really wanted to leave, she'd already be gone. If she really wanted our marriage over, she would have said so. If she was so unhappy with me, this would have been her ticket out so she could run around and screw the world if she wanted to. Why would she say she wants to stay married to me if she's an inch away from her freedom? The other day she said, if I don't have herpes when the blood test comes back, and if I want to leave her to find someone else to have a normal sexual relationship, I could go, and start over. She also said if I wanted to stay at home and keep the kids, she would leave, and again I could start my life over again. But she's said over and over again, she wants to stay and make this work.


I think it is pretty common for someone to cheat, but not want the end of their marriage. It is referred to as 'cake eating'. 

They have an exciting new relationship and they also have a husband and family. The best of both worlds. 

You many never know if your wife cheated the one time or several times. What you do know, is that she is capable of cheating.


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## survivorwife

Larry2626 said:


> Please don't get me wrong as right now you're the only friends and advice I have to try and keep my sanity. But if she really wanted to leave, she'd already be gone. If she really wanted our marriage over, she would have said so. If she was so unhappy with me, this would have been her ticket out so she could run around and screw the world if she wanted to. Why would she say she wants to stay married to me if she's an inch away from her freedom? The other day she said, if I don't have herpes when the blood test comes back, and if I want to leave her to find someone else to have a normal sexual relationship, I could go, and start over. She also said if I wanted to stay at home and keep the kids, she would leave, and again I could start my life over again. But she's said over and over again, she wants to stay and make this work.


Fear of the unknown. Financial instability. Fear of the "stigma" attached to a person's whose marriage ended in divorce due to infidelity. The Other Person didn't pan out, you become the back up plan. Several reasons why a cheating spouse would want to stay in the marriage.


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## bandit.45

survivorwife said:


> Fear of the unknown. Financial instability. Fear of the "stigma" attached to a person's whose marriage ended in divorce due to infidelity. The Other Person didn't pan out, you become the back up plan. Several reasons why a cheating spouse would want to stay in the marriage.


E X A C T A M U N D O! :smthumbup:

Remember, her talk is worthless. Right now she will say anything to preserve her comfortable little nest. Actions are what count.


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## deejov

Glad you have "someone" to talk to about this.
You may want to leave today, and change your mind tomorrow, and her the same. That is normal too. 
You don't have to make a decision today, or even tomorrow.

But it's good to vent about it, and keep you on the "legal" side of life, it's really actually wiser to NOT decide anything, right now.
Or analyze it all too much. 

Things might look very different in a few months. It's about getting through today and stopping those mind tapes about what she did. 
Keeping busy. Focusing on your kids. Life doesn't stand still, unfortunately. 

do something fun this weekend, too. Change of scenery.


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## Larry2626

So when all is said and done, they say nothing in life is guaranteed except for death and taxes. If I know my wife is capable of cheating, there really is no guarantee with or without a therapist, or with all the promises in the world, that she'll do it, or not do it again, depending upon the circumstances at the time. I can only hope and pray she'll remember the hurt and pain for both of us, and will think twice about doing it again. Or I can worry for the rest of my married life that she knows she got away with it at least once for the past 9 months, and since she already has herpes, would never have to tell me about that again. Seems with most folks here, this ended in divorce or will shortly. Don't know if I've heard from anyone that reconciled and how life has been since. Guess there's no statistics, but do you think there's anyone out there who survives this hell, stays together, and lives (almost) happily ever after, or is this generally the end of the road? I thought the therapy route was to get more truth out of her, answer the "why she did it" questions, and to help me cope with it, get my life back together and learn to try and trust her again. Am I already looking for the wrong things from therapy I haven't even started yet?


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## anonymouskitty

If you do shift to switzerland or monaco, taxes aren't guaranteed .

I've reconciled with my wife Larry, and I can assure you I put her through months of hell.

But for a true R you need to get every little bit of truth out of her, WS don't hide the truth when they're really remorseful.

I grilled my wife a couple hundred times and her version didn't change and it added up to all the recon I carried out so I concluded that she indeed was telling the truth. And I went around giving her hell, which she took silently without any justification or blameshifting or evasion.

Recognize any patterns?? If so she's probably telling the truth or you're being taken for a ride on the FALSE R CHOO CHOO


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## Gabriel

anonymouskitty said:


> Call her bluff then mate, see how that works. Larry its not about her leaving or staying, its about you, What do you want? a D or an R.
> 
> if you want the D call her bluff and stick to your guns.
> 
> If you want a R, she needs to tell you the whole truth and nothing but that, the only way you're going to get this is if you have a fact checker. email accounts, cellphone bills, a poly, anything and everything that gets the truth out of her


Exactly - she doesn't want to lose you. She is done with this particular piece of trash. You aren't getting it. The reason she is likely withholding information is because she feels giving it to you would send you over the edge and her hubby would be gone.

Just because she is choosing you now doesn't mean she should be given a free pass on the truth.


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## deejov

There are certainly lots of people who reconcilled and have BETTER marriages now than they did before. Different. A new beginning.

Sometimes it is the catalyst that promotes the change. 
Not as many on this website, but they are around.

It's most certainly possible to have a new marriage. It's not the END unless you deem it so personally. It's totally personal.


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## Bellavista

We reconciled after H affair, 12 years ago. It will only work if 
1. The cheater is not a serial cheater
2. Both parties are willing to change the way they relate to each other & their faulty thinking.
We definately have a better relationship now, but I do wish I had been on this site then because I did everything wrong. Still, it worked in the end.


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## Larry2626

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Collectively, you are the best bunch of therapists a guy could ask for, and I can't really put in words just how much it helps to be able to just talk to someone...anyone right now. In the beginning I felt so isolated, like I was the only one in the world something like this could happen to. I felt like a total stranger on the street could just look at my face, and could know what just happened to me. For what its worth, I truly appreciate you sharing your horror stories with me. I don't feel alone anymore. Although I still feel like my best friend, my only confidant, my anchor when the rest of the world caved in on me, is now gone. I felt like I could write my own obituary about my marriage dying. A big piece of me is now gone, and I don't know if I'll ever get it back. Puts all the other crap in my life in perspective, for sure.


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## bandit.45

Larry just take your time. Inform your WW that for now your marriage is on hold, that you have not decided what you will do, and that you will not be rushed into making a decision. Time is on your side. Make your wife sweat it out, and make it clear to her that you are going to verify everything she has told you or will tell you in the immediate future, and that if you catch her in one more lie, or if you verify something she has told you was a fabrication, then you are done with her and she needs to pack her bags.

Also let her know that even though you may not be ready to end the marriage now, you will always have the option to do so, whether it be next week or five years from now. She needs to internalize the idea that she is living with you on borrowed time and that you are in control of how this all plays out. 

Keep the control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## survivorwife

Larry2626 said:


> I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Collectively, you are the best bunch of therapists a guy could ask for, .


Collectively, we don't pull any punches, do we? 

We are all on your side. You know it. We know it. Vent away.

:smthumbup:


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## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> Cross have we ever seen an instance on this site where the WS didn't trickle truth to some extent? They all do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think there have been a few in the last year. Less than five. Of course some are moving on and don't give a sh!t. The thing here is, NONE of her answers (except she cheated) sounds right. She has literally not given one answer that he can check. Like someone said, the whole thing sounds like she is protecting someone nearby. 

Poly tomorrow.

Easy questions, do I know the man who gave you herpes?

How long have you known the man?

Have you talked to him in the last three months?

Has he ever been in our house? 

Etc.

I am pro reconcilliation under some circumstances (kids) but bringing home herpes, IDK. And even the way she described it, she was the aggressor in the backseat drama.


BTW isn't there a herpes vacination now? Just googled it. Looks like they are testing vaccines.


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## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> Don't expect anything rational from her. Rationality goes out the window when a cheater is stonewalling and lying to you.
> 
> She is trickle truthing because she is scared you will kick her out and divorce her. If you can take her admitting she had full-blown intercourse with the guy, tell her so and make her feel safe enough to do so. If you promise her that you will put aside thoughts of D if she tells the truth, stick to your promise.


If someone had told her you can get herpes by touching someone she would have never come up with the ten second story. She's just trying to make it sound like they never "really had sex". It's also typical ,Rocketman, for the betrayed spouse to do exactly what you are doing, believe what you are being told by the wayward spouse, only to find out later the story changes.

Go back through her cell phone bills on line and check for unknown numbers called a lot. 

The thing you need to know is who the other man really is. It is just way to convenient that he is just a fellow passing through. BTW, what project was he supposed to working on? Where was he staying.

If you do not want answers, thats up to you. But, that has been unsuccessfully tried here before.


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## bandit.45

I'll bet the OM is not only a resident in the area, but someone that Larry knows.


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## keko

Denial will only prolong the pain. Time to dig deeper Larry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Larry2626 said:


> So when all is said and done, they say nothing in life is guaranteed except for death and taxes. If I know my wife is capable of cheating, there really is no guarantee with or without a therapist, or with all the promises in the world, that she'll do it, or not do it again, depending upon the circumstances at the time. I can only hope and pray she'll remember the hurt and pain for both of us, and will think twice about doing it again. Or I can worry for the rest of my married life that she knows she got away with it at least once for the past 9 months, and since she already has herpes, would never have to tell me about that again. Seems with most folks here, this ended in divorce or will shortly. Don't know if I've heard from anyone that reconciled and how life has been since. Guess there's no statistics, but do you think there's anyone out there who survives this hell, stays together, and lives (almost) happily ever after, or is this generally the end of the road? I thought the therapy route was to get more truth out of her, answer the "why she did it" questions, and to help me cope with it, get my life back together and learn to try and trust her again. Am I already looking for the wrong things from therapy I haven't even started yet?


A cheater will lie to a therapist in a heartbeat. Many use therapy to prove they are committed to the marriage when in fact they are still cheating. You have many members here who have reconciled. About 35% of marriages survive adultery in the US. 50% in Britain. 80% wish they had worked it out instead of divorcing. I am pro reconcilliation but only if the cheating spouse comes clean. I just do not believe your wifes story in this case and you haven't been trying to find out if she is telling the truth. 

Would it matter if it was one of your good friends? Would it matter if it were still going on? Would it matter if there were more than one. All you know is what she told you. You know she decieved you for months or more. You can't even prove to yourself she is not still seeing him.


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## Chaparral

BTW she conveniently blameshifted to you because you were spending too much time with your motorcycle, another huge red flag. In other words she hasn't owned the affair yet.


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## bandit.45

Everything Larry knows about the affair, all the details, come from his wife. 

Larry you need to assume that maybe only 25% of what she told you is the truth. You need to verify (to the best of your ability and resources) everything she has told you:

The OMs name, the make of his truck, where they met, how they met, if they called or texted, were there e-mails..... everything.


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## the guy

Ya larry I get the same way when I smoke weed, I think everyone knows....but they don't b/c I'm not a stoner!

Stop letting this crap define who you are. 30 years ago you were a confident young man that tripped over him self, now you are an experienced gentlemen that knows a thing or two.

SO PLEASE STOP BEATING YOUR SELF UP AND GET BACK ON THE DAM HORSE!!!!

Sorry for shouting man, but dude sometimes we need the 2x4 to wake us up.

Your lady had a choice and she did you wrong. So why do you need to change....do you want to change? Hell you sound like a great provider and a dam good dad! You diserve to be happy.


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## the guy

You diserve good thing!!!!!!!

That was my montra when I was going thru this sh!t..."I diserve good things"....say it with me "I diserve good things" now everybody, together "I diserve good things".

Saying this in my head helped me get thru the dark thoughts. Just be careful saying it out loud will get you some strange looks at the gas pump!


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## Thor

chapparal said:


> A cheater will lie to a therapist in a heartbeat. Many use therapy to prove they are committed to the marriage when in fact they are still cheating.


My sister is a psychologist and does a good bit of marriage therapy. She tells me exactly what you wrote is true. Plus, the cheater will admit in IC to still cheating or to much more than the BS knows, but then in joint MC session will lie to the BS. This puts the therapist in the middle because of confidentiality she cannot reveal what was told in IC. The goal then is to get the cheating spouse to confess to the BS.

In any case, therapy does not guarantee truth. It should be a safe place to discuss things, though I found it was not for us. Try MC, it may be helpful, but don't expect miracles.

The polygraph, and more specifically the threat of the polygraph, is the best way to get the truth from her. Spy tech is the other method which works.


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## Sara8

Larry2626 said:


> Seems with most folks here, this ended in divorce or will shortly. Don't know if I've heard from anyone that reconciled and how life has been since. Guess there's no statistics, but do you think there's anyone out there who survives this hell, stays together, and lives (almost) happily ever after, or is this generally the end of the road? I thought the therapy route was to get more truth out of her, answer the "why she did it" questions, and to help me cope with it, get my life back together and learn to try and trust her again. Am I already looking for the wrong things from therapy I haven't even started yet?


The stats show that a small number of marriages survive and EA/Pa.

No one, however, knows for sure how happy or unhappy the loyal spouse is going forward. Only they do and too many times they put on a happy face while crying on the inside. 

A life of distrust and checking up on a spouse is not worth it to me. 

Based on what I read here there are plenty of people who never cheated and never want to cheat.


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## Shamwow

bandit.45 said:


> Everything Larry knows about the affair, all the details, come from his wife.
> 
> Larry you need to assume that maybe only 25% of what she told you is the truth. You need to verify (to the best of your ability and resources) everything she has told you:
> 
> The OMs name, the make of his truck, where they met, how they met, if they called or texted, were there e-mails..... everything.


Totally agree. Larry, you're doing fine. Ups, downs, mistakes, changes, good plays, bad plays, whatever. You need more time to process all of this, but don't do it by jumping into reconciliation because it 'feels so right'. We get that. Seriously. The realization that your wife of many years could actually betray you this way is a massive shock. I'd venture to say it was absolutely unbelievable for every one of us. I had that shock after only 8 years. But it threw my reality for a spin. I was so mentally engrained in the life I had planned with my ex that it was a complete shift in thinking to stand up for myself and make the hard call instead of trying to prop up that planned future when deep down I knew it wouldn't be able to happen now.

For me, it was when I asked her point blank questions which I already knew the answer to, and she lied without batting an eye - to my face. Would this change things for you? It did for me. To do this you need proof. I found it in her deleted texts. You need a truth which she isn't giving you. Find it on your own. Absolutely hire the PI. Even ask them to look into any local leads that they may find - it'll cost more than $75 but they can get things we can't (I think the 20-25 Dunkin Donuts visits story is total BS - and the name she gave for him will probably return nothing).

Please sync her iPhone and look for the deleted texts in the backup folder. Realize that things have changed for real. And you can play it however you want. She may seem really sweet to you right now, crying and being all 'sorry'...but think about the real deal here. All each of us has is our self-respect. If that's gone, life blows. So IF she gives you a reason to respect yourself for taking her back, by all means go for it and enjoy. Mine didn't. And I don't regret dumping her for a second.

Your wife's story is the biggest pile of crap...and looking back to the progression I went through dealing with my xw's infidelity, if I were in your shoes I'd wanna buy it too...but from a black and white perspective...Sorry...it's total BS. You...need...another...source...of...information. Not to 'stick it to her', but to know what the hell decisions you are making, and why.

And definitely go to the gym like a mad man, my friend. Now is a good time. You'll be fine.


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## bandit.45

Yes. Go to the gym and work out. Use hard iron. You will be amazed how it focuses your mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor

Shamwow said:


> Your wife's story is the biggest pile of crap...and looking back to the progression I went through dealing with my xw's infidelity, if I were in your shoes I'd wanna buy it too...but from a black and white perspective...Sorry...it's total BS. You...need...another...source...of...information. Not to 'stick it to her', but to know what the hell decisions you are making, and why.


Shamwow, I agree with your whole post. The part I quoted deserves an extension, which is that we can know something just because we know it. That is, we don't need CSI level scientific proof to know something. I suspect you are correct that the wife's story is a load of crap, and I agree that Larry should aggressively seek independent confirmation of facts. But the truth may never be clearly established by hard data. In that case it is fully acceptable to go with your gut on what you know.

You can know something just because you know it in your gut.


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## Larry2626

Well, the good news is I just got the results from a battery of blood tests I had done last Friday. My blood work came back great with slightly elevated cholesterol and LDL. The bad news is, the results for Herpes 2 are still pending, and due to the holiday, I probably won't get the results until Thursday. Other good news, is all other STD's besides Herpes I & II tested negative.

Time will tell.....


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## bandit.45

Larry2626 said:


> Well, the good news is I just got the results from a battery of blood tests I had done last Friday. My blood work came back great with slightly elevated cholesterol and LDL. The bad news is, the results for Herpes 2 are still pending, and due to the holiday, I probably won't get the results until Thursday. Other good news, is all other STD's besides Herpes I & II tested negative.
> 
> Time will tell.....


Good to hear. Take some fish oil and use olive or grape seed oil to cook with and the cholesterol will come down. I have the same problem.


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## Thor

Absent other risk factors there is no problem with slightly elevated cholesterol. In fact it is unhealthy to have too low cholesterol.


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## bandit.45

If you are in the 200 zone you're ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdm9999

Good luck with the blood tests...I hope they come out OK. I just went to get tested for all that stuff due to my unfaithful WH and hope all comes out ok too.

Stay strong.


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## Larry2626

By the grace of God, or just dumb luck, my blood test came back negative this morning for Herpes 2. Nice to get a little break in this rather bad situation. Whew......


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## bandit.45

Have you been able to uncover any more info on the WW's OM? I would make R contingent on her spilling her guts and giving you everything: his real name, address and phone #.

I think its someone local and I think you know him.


----------



## aug

Larry2626 said:


> By the grace of God, or just dumb luck, my blood test came back negative this morning for Herpes 2. Nice to get a little break in this rather bad situation. Whew......



Well, good fortune smiles upon you. Unless you have given up sex already, try to find another woman just as clean.  

(after divorce of course.)


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## Larry2626

I brought her to the marina yesterday and she showed me where they parked, and how far she got when she walked away before she got back into his truck for the ride back. I also met with the manager of the Dunkin' Donuts to see if I could see them on the store's video surveillance system. Unfortunately they use a DVR system which overwrites the videos every 2 weeks. I checked her cell phone records (not a smart phone) going back from September through December and see no incoming or outgoing calls to the number she gave me, whether its an accurate number or not. After hours and hours of grilling her story hasn't even waivered. I have gone over every detail, repeating the story bit by bit, and step by ugly step to see if there would be any change or inconsistencies, and pressed her for endless hours, waking her up in the middle of the night, and keeping her up until morning. I have brought her to the point of horrible sobbing, and deep large tears. She did tell me when she got home that afternoon, she felt so disgusted that she threw her underwear in the garbage. She also gave me some details of how she actually got undressed in the truck. How while she was straddling him, she reached back and took off one shoe. Then stood up on one leg and pulled down the other leg. I even went as far as to have her sit on me and demostrate how it all went down. Some more stuff too, but everything seems to make sense and appears pretty logical. I know you all might not like hearing it, but I'm leaning more towards believing that she's told me everything, rather than still hiding anything. She swears she hardly touched his 'parts' as her arm couldn't bend backwards while sitting on him, and she absolutely insists she never went down on him either. She said the kissing and carressing really felt 'passionate' and she just lost control after that. I've tried to get her to tell me every minute detail of their meetings, but he didn't tell her much. She says she did most of the talking and he did all the listening, and that was why she liked him so much and thought he was becoming a good friend. I really think she got played by a pro and let it get the best of her.


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## keko

Larry2626 said:


> By the grace of God, or just dumb luck, my blood test came back negative this morning for Herpes 2. Nice to get a little break in this rather bad situation. Whew......


So are you going to stay with your WW?


----------



## Larry2626

As of right now, I think yes. We're going to see a therapist next Tuesday night. Going to re-live all the gory details once again, and hopefully get some direction on how to start a new life together, as I don't think the old one exists anymore. Even if we got a divorce, and I found somebody new, I now realize there's no guarantee of 100% honesty anywhere. Believe me, divorce would be much easier on me than the hell of therapy, and maybe through therapy some more truths will come out. Don't quite know, nor do I know if I can handle any more than I've already heard. Its not like the lesser-of-two-evils thing, I just feel it in my gut that its the right thing to do for me. I feel a lot better than I did last week, just making myself busy with work, and talking with you folks. Its when I have too much time to think, or while I'm sleeping, that it all surfaces again, and my mood changes, and I blast her. I've surprised myself that I haven't taken a swing at her. I feel like I've analyzed this to death, and need to focus on my future. Sure, the "Why's" are still very important to me, the "When's" and "Where's" are still in the back of my mind. Having read many other posts here, it seems common to want to know all the details like how it felt; was he as good as me; did you like it, etc., etc. Knowing I'm not alone, although I feel like I am, helped tremendously. Perhaps if it happened after only a couple of years of marriage, or if she came to me and said she fell in love with him and wanted to leave me, I'd feel differently. But I don't think its like that, and after 30 years, I think its worth fighting for. Especially since I tested negative for HSV2, it would be so easy to leave, now that I don't have the stigma (sorry for those of you who do-I mean nothing bad by saying that). The biggest battle is not with her, or with the OM, its with me. How much do I want this? How much am I willing to take? How much do I want my old life back? Can I ever have any semblence of normalcy again? Will I ever get over the doubt, the depression, the feeling of inadequacy? These I guess will only be answered in time. I know I'm not strong enough to deal with all these issues by myself. There are far too many, and one doesn't hold a priority over the others. Again, I wish this never happened, but I need to pick up the pieces, heal me first, and work on the relationship and her sort of at the same time. Unless something drastically new comes up in conversation, or some evidence pops up that shows she was blatantly lying to me, or hiding even more details, I think this is the way I'm going to go. I love being married and I loved being married to her. She's just not the same person I married 30 years ago. I guess over time, people do change to some degree and I have to weigh the choices of staying married to her, or finding someone else, who might be even worse. Many thoughts spinning around my little head, but real good getting them out here. Better than my head exploding. Just wish I could stop crying like a baby so much. Don't even know why I'm crying. Just do. Don't know if I'm feeling sorry for me, for her, for us, or just desperately sad in general. I really hope this gets better before it gets worse.


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## keko

You're clean while she has herpes, this is your get ouf of jail free card. But since you're staying, you better hope/pray this wont be a decision you'll regret few years down the road.


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## Gabriel

It's his call.

Good luck - hopefully you'll look back and be thankful for the decision.

Remember, if stuff comes out in therapy that you can't handle, you can always change your mind.


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## bandit.45

The first time she has a breakout and those sores pop out around her mouth and vag, you may reconsider. 

She's tainted friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60

*Just wish I could stop crying like a baby so much. Don't even know why I'm crying. Just do. Don't know if I'm feeling sorry for me, for her, for us, or just desperately sad in general. I really hope this gets better before it gets worse.*

You are mourning the death of the marriage you thought you had. The one with a faithful partner of 30 years whom you could trust and rely on.

You are also mourning the loss of the wife you thought you had. The honest, loving, faithful woman you loved and married.

Both are now gone and you are mourning their passing. Only time will help this.


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## Larry2626

RE:"She's tainted friend."
There's not too many of us out there without any sin. Several times I swore to my wife's face that I had quit smoking. She caught me at the office and elsewhere. She smelled it on my clothes, saw tobacco in my car, saw burn holes on my clothes. I told her the smell got stuck to my clothes from the palces I'd been. I was so full of ****, it wasn't funny, but we both agreed to stop smoking many years ago. She had more will power than I had, and I was too embarrassed or proud to tell her the truth. Each time she stayed with me. A lie is a lie.


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## TDSC60

Larry2626 said:


> RE:"She's tainted friend."
> There's not too many of us out there without any sin. Several times I swore to my wife's face that I had quit smoking. She caught me at the office and elsewhere. She smelled it on my clothes, saw tobacco in my car, saw burn holes on my clothes. I told her the smell got stuck to my clothes from the palces I'd been. I was so full of ****, it wasn;t funny, but we both agreed to stop smoking many years ago. She had more will power than I had, and I was too embarrassed or proud to tell her the truth. Each time she stayed with me. A lie is a lie.


Refresh my memory. I do not remember "Thou shalt not smoke." Neither in the commandments nor the marriage vows.

You are not seriously comparing lying about adultery to lying about smoking? The only reason she confessed is that she caught an STD.


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## aug

Larry2626 said:


> RE:"She's tainted friend."
> There's not too many of us out there without any sin. Several times I swore to my wife's face that I had quit smoking. She caught me at the office and elsewhere. She smelled it on my clothes, saw tobacco in my car, saw burn holes on my clothes. I told her the smell got stuck to my clothes from the palces I'd been. I was so full of ****, it wasn;t funny, but we both agreed to stop smoking many years ago. *She had more will power than I had*, and I was too embarrassed or proud to tell her the truth. Each time she stayed with me. A lie is a lie.




You're comparing smoking with herpes? One is forever.


Since she has will power, what does it say about her decision to have sex with another man?


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## aug

Larry2626 said:


> Perhaps if it happened after only a couple of years of marriage, or if she came to me and said she fell in love with him and wanted to leave me, I'd feel differently. But I don't think its like that, and after 30 years, I think its worth fighting for. Especially since I tested negative for HSV2, it would be so easy to leave, now that I don't have the stigma (sorry for those of you who do-I mean nothing bad by saying that). The biggest battle is not with her, or with the OM, its with me. How much do I want this? How much am I willing to take? *How much do I want my old life back?* Can I ever have any semblence of normalcy again? Will I ever get over the doubt, the depression, the feeling of inadequacy? These I guess will only be answered in time. I know I'm not strong enough to deal with all these issues by myself. There are far too many, and one doesn't hold a priority over the others.



Your old life is never the same again. Every time she has a herpes outbreak, you'll trigger badly.

And if you have sex with her, every time you breakout, how would you feel?


I wonder now if she's serial cheater, and if she caught the herpes from another man.


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## keko

aug said:


> I wonder now if she's serial cheater, and if she caught the herpes from another man.


Exactly. Until now he didn't/couldn't find a single evidence and is only going by the words of a cheater. Yet his forgiveness is faster then what he receives from his wife.


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## bandit.45

Larry2626 said:


> RE:"She's tainted friend."
> There's not too many of us out there without any sin. Several times I swore to my wife's face that I had quit smoking. She caught me at the office and elsewhere. She smelled it on my clothes, saw tobacco in my car, saw burn holes on my clothes. I told her the smell got stuck to my clothes from the palces I'd been. I was so full of ****, it wasn;t funny, but we both agreed to stop smoking many years ago. She had more will power than I had, and I was too embarrassed or proud to tell her the truth. Each time she stayed with me. A lie is a lie.


That is a dumb comparison and you know it. 

Look, I won't waste time arguing this. I'll make my point and let it drop.

Smoking is not an STD. It doesn't remind a person of a spouse's betrayal. When the breakouts occur (if they do) you will be faced with a physical manifestation of your wife's adultery and betrayal. 

If she gets full blown herpes, you may never be able to have sex with her or even kiss her like you used to without the nagging fear you could pick it up from her. Talk about a mood killer! 

Dude that is going to suck... seriously suck. Are you going to be able to handle this?


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## jnj express

You do what you want---but please do not ever try to compare smoking, with the murder of a mge----or do you happen to think, that stealing some gas out of a bike's gas tank, would be equal to real murder.---You are talking kindergarten, compared to college

Its your life, its your wife---enjoy or not----there is only one trip thru life, for you on this planet---hope you enjoy it, as you spend time with her, as if nothing ever happened, cuz when you R., that's what it ends up as. Sure you'll blast her now and then, but basically already she is back in her normal lifestyle, only difference is, you are now her parole officer---but in all reality, there are no other consequences she is facing

You have sex, dinner, go out, face life together, as if nothing ever happened---but it did didn't it---another man was inside her, and she wanted it, allowed it, pushed for it---that's what your new life will be---possibly for the rest of that life---as I said---your life, your wife.


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## survivorwife

Larry2626 said:


> RE:"She's tainted friend."
> There's not too many of us out there without any sin. Several times I swore to my wife's face that I had quit smoking. She caught me at the office and elsewhere. She smelled it on my clothes, saw tobacco in my car, saw burn holes on my clothes. I told her the smell got stuck to my clothes from the palces I'd been. I was so full of ****, it wasn;t funny, but we both agreed to stop smoking many years ago.* She had more will power than I had*, and I was too embarrassed or proud to tell her the truth. Each time she stayed with me. A lie is a lie.


Larry. Dude. You know we are on your side, right? And just how do you know that she didn't slip up once in a while and smoke when you weren't around? Because she said so?

Smoking ain't cheating. Repeat after me. Smoking ain't cheating. Now how is that this thought entered your head in the first place? Are you grabbing at straws in order to blame yourself? Maybe if you hadn't of smoked, she would not have cheated? I know that you know better than that.

I sincerely hope things work out for you. Just remember that you are entitled to be angry, hurt and sad as a result of what happened. It's normal. You are allowed to be human and not a super hero. And once more, smoking ain't cheating.


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## iheartlife

I hate smoking. Hate it. But I would take a loving husband who smoked like a chimney over a cheating non-smoking husband any day of the week. 

You lie about smoking, so she gets to f*ck somebody? That's some trade off. What do you get when she lies about how many cookies she ate?


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## costa200

Larry2626 you are aware that even with a condom there is a high chance of you getting that Herpes don't you? You don't have it now but due to how the disease manifest itself you can catch it quite easily. Get some medical advice on this.


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## aug

costa200 said:


> Larry2626 you are aware that even with a condom there is a high chance of you getting that Herpes don't you? You don't have it now but due to how the disease manifest itself you can catch it quite easily. Get some medical advice on this.



Or, do a lot of internet research. Google can be a good friend.


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## Acabado

Hang tough, my friend.


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## donny64

costa200 said:


> Larry2626 you are aware that even with a condom there is a high chance of you getting that Herpes don't you? You don't have it now but due to how the disease manifest itself you can catch it quite easily. Get some medical advice on this.


Not entirely true...and this is an "IF" here...his wife is honest with him. Listen, she knew something was "up" or she'd have not gone in for the test. She had symptoms. She needs to be aware of these symptoms at the onset of symptoms. If she is so, and gets on anti-viral meds, and abstains from sex when she feels the very first onset of symptoms, the chances of her passing it to him in a year of unprotected sex....4 percent I believe it was. If they use the above awarness, abstention, and meds, AND use a condom, it cuts it to 2 percent chance in a year. 

Condoms do not cover all areas, and will only decrease chances. 

Now, seeing that roughly 1/4 of the population carries HSV2, with many of them not even aware they have it because they have no symptoms and have not been tested, his chances of catching it from someone else (considering they'll not want to be forthcoming about it or do not even know they have it) is much greater. Even with condom use every single time, the chance of catching it from someone who will not tell you they're having symptoms is FAR greater than having sex with an HSV2 infected person without condoms who is on meds and abstains from sex during the times there are any symptoms or outbreaks.

Believe me, I think I'm fairly accurate on the numbers and chances. I thought I had acquired it years ago, and me being the "master of research" had myself convinced I had it, and started researching how it would affect my life and that of any prospective partner. I was shocked at just how low the chances were of getting it from someone who has it in a stable relationship when precautions, meds, and abstention at the appropriate times are taken.

Don't throw away a marriage because of this if it is salvageable, because one out of every 4 women you meet from here on out has it. How many of them will tell you the truth about it, and out of those, how many of them can you have a workable relationship with?

My W has HSV1 (primarily oral, which something like 70% of the population has), and I do not. In 6 years, I've still not caught it. Because when she feels the symptoms coming on, we do not kiss or have oral sex (her to me) until they symptoms go away, or her outbreak has healed. I've "survived" so far, about a dozen of her outbreaks because she tells me immediately if she even thinks she is having symptoms.


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## MattMatt

If Larry did not love his wife so very much, this would not matter. But he does, and has to base his actions on that love.

It'll not be easy, but we'll be here for Larry.


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## Kallan Pavithran

He may get occasional free pass...............


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## happyman64

Larry,

Its your life and your decision.

I think it is good not to make any decision right now and see how counselling goes for you and your wife.

I am pro R but even I have to say she is still lying about something.

She at first cannot remember the number, She at first cannot remember his name.

It is that trickle truthing that tells the experiences BS's that there is more to come.

But like I said it is your choice to make and I think it is great that you still love your wife and do not want to tear your family apart.

Time is on your side. Use it well to see if you both can heal.

And keep your ears open because there is no doubt you will hear more to the story.

There are a few TAMer's on here that have reconciled and done it well. I am sure in time you will know in your heart what you need to do concerning your marriage.

Good Luck and let us know how you make out.

HM64


----------



## Larry2626

You're right. I really wasn't trying to compare smoking to cheating. I was trying to compare a lie to a lie, but that's not even a close comparison. The severity of the crime and betrayal blows away anythig else. Sorry for the dumb comparison. I hope my new life ahead with her is better than the old one. Obviously I can't predict now about mood swings and arguements in the future. I can only hope for the best. We'll see if the MC can offer any help at all. For all I know that will be a dead end, and then my decision might be made for me.


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## Larry2626

Trickle truths and inconsistencies....
11 days after finding out, and 2 days before therapy starts, I'm still digging and little inconsistencies are popping up. Am I digging too deep, and should these "little" facts be bothering me or are they meaningless and insignificant?

(1) I've asked her hundreds of times what she was wearing that day. She told me over and over again, just a zip up sweatshirt and a spaghetti strap shirt. I thought about her bra. It was never mentioned. She always wears sports bras. She says she was wearing one that day, and he pulled it down over her shoulders when he pulled down her shirt. Just forgot to tell me about it as she didn't think it was important.

(2) She says while she was straddling him, he unzipped his fly, put her hand down there and put her hand on his parts, but she barely touched his 'parts' as she really couldn't reach it, with her hands turned backwards facing him. Last night, I had her demonstrate on my lap in the back of her truck, that if that were true, she couldn't even have seen his penis much less touch it, as it would still be tucked under him, and inside his underwear. The only way she could have touched his privates, is if his pants were pulled down at least over his thighs or to his knees, not simply "unzipped"; then he'd be fully exposed, and probably stiff by then. (Try it yourself if you don't believe me and have too much time on your hands, like I do!). I did multiple times, and just unzipping your fly is not enough to expose your parts, especially if you're sitting down.

(3) She says over and over that she never 'stroked' his thing, just lightly touched it for a second or two, as she couldn't physically reach down there between the two of them as their bodies were too close. Once again (to my digust), I pulled my 'thing' out last night while she straddled me, and she could reach it plenty good, as was able to stroke it with no problem. In the heat of passion, I don't believe that any woman would just 'barely' touch it. I think she would give it a good long massage. I'm not a woman, so I can't say that for a fact, but it just seems to make sense to me.

(4) She says she never saw his parts, or may have caught a 'quick glance' at it. Well, if as I say is true and he was now sitting with his pants and underwear down near his bent knees, with his parts erect, she would have a pretty damned good view of him down there, especially as she stood partially up to get her own pants down. With all that undressing going on, in such a limited space, I find it hard to believe she wasn't able to see it. More so, I can't believe she wouldn't want to see it. It would be so exciting, why pass on such a great opportunity?

Again, except for exposing more holes in the story, do these inconsistencies mean anything, or is it mostly feasible that after a 9 month old event, she actually did forget some of the details, and they're only coming out by examining every minute under a microscope?

Should I keep pounding her for details, or give it a rest and see what the counselor can do for me and for us?

Thanks.


----------



## Thor

Give yourself some rest from all this. Some of what she says may be true, and some not. There is no way to know right now. That is the thing, there is no way to know. Your brain is now preloaded to see lies, for good reason, but still you are not going to be impartial or even rational in your analysis.

Get lots of exercise to burn off some of this anxiety.


----------



## happyman64

Thor is right.

She is probably still lying to save her butt. And you should give it a rest before you have a heart attack.

Go relieve some stress.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

I'd be more concerned about the details that led up to the phyiscal event(s). Still not buying the 25 Dunkin Donuts dates...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

I agree with Shamwow. The dates and the EA are the most hurtful part of this. 

I think she is lying about the sex. 10 seconds of penetration doesn't seem like it would be enough for her to get fullblown herpes. I think they had full-on intercourse for at least several minutes. 

My guess is that she is so scared you will divorce her that she has walled herself up in a castle of lies and doesn't even know what is a real memory or what is a lie.


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## survivorwife

Larry2626 said:


> Trickle truths and inconsistencies....
> 11 days after finding out, and 2 days before therapy starts, I'm still digging and little inconsistencies are popping up. Am I digging too deep, and should these "little" facts be bothering me or are they meaningless and insignificant?
> 
> 
> 
> Should I keep pounding her for details, or give it a rest and see what the counselor can do for me and for us?
> 
> Thanks.


Often times it is the "little" facts that expose a lie. It's all in the details that she claims to have remembered and to which you have pointed out, are impossible.

That being said, the "act" itself was what it was, resulting in a permanent reminder that your wife was unfaithful. The details and the truth, in the scheme of things, won't make much difference in the results. The results remain the same.

If your intent is to get at the truth about the affair as a whole, then I would suggest you question more about what lead to the "act". For example, the details in conversations that she had with the OM, what she knows about him, what she told him, what he told her and why, at any given point in that relationship, did she not back off from this OM, and why she waited (as she claims) until the "act" itself to suddenly realize that she loves you. You see, it's my opinion that this part of the story, while convenient for her, makes no sense.

I don't know what the counselor can do for you. Maybe help, maybe not. A WS can lie to a counselor just as easily as lying to a spouse.

This is certainly a difficult time for you. Most of us have "been there" to a certain extent, as the betrayal cuts to the core of the marital relationship even though the details may be different in each of our cases. But one thing remains central to all of our collective experiences. We should be able to get the full truth out of our WSs on all questions asked. A truly remorseful spouse will tell the full truth and not simply a "version" of the truth just to appease us. 

So, when a "version" of the truth just doesn't make sense, then it probably is not the truth, which then begs the question, why this particular "version" of the truth is chosen by the WS to be told.

Trust your gut, Larry.


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## happyman64

And Larry,

When you are at counselling with your wife please remember to tell her this:

Your own words and I think she needs to hear them,



> Although I still feel like my best friend, my only confidant, my anchor when the rest of the world caved in on me, is now gone. I felt like I could write my own obituary about my marriage dying. A big piece of me is now gone, and I don't know if I'll ever get it back. Puts all the other crap in my life in perspective, for sure.


Good Luck at counselling Larry.

HM64


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## Larry2626

Thanks to all.


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## survivorwife

Larry2626 said:


> Thanks to all.


Any updates on the counseling? I sincerely hope that you are doing well. If not, we are still here for you to vent to if you need us.


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## Larry2626

First meeting with the MC was Tuesday. Next one is tomorrow morning. Can't believe how fast an hour flew by. Mostly she just listened the whole time. Said my wife is impulsive. Wants to know if I trust her or want to trust her. Then time ran out. More to follow after our next meeting. Good thing, as time goes on, I'm sleeping again, stopped interrogating her, talking to her again, stopped looking for the piece of crap OM, and life is slowly but surely moving on.


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## Shaggy

Larry, why aren't you having her take a polygraph at this point?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Don't let life move on too quickly. Don't rugsweep this. You need to make your wife feel some harsh sanctions. You need to make her feel like she is on the verge of losing everything. If you don't she will not learn from this. Well, she will learn that you are a pushover and she can get away with it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Don't let life move on too quickly. Don't rugsweep this. You need to make your wife feel some harsh sanctions. You need to make her feel like she is on the verge of losing everything. If you don't she will not learn from this. Well, she will learn that you are a pushover and she can get away with it again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. Isn't there a concern that a cheating spouse might think, even at a non-conscious level: "Hey! I can cheat! All I have to do is get my spouse into counselling, and they can be fixed! And all will be well! Isn't this cake delicious"?


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## Kallan Pavithran

Rug sweeping......... I know all the BSs want to do this first. They want to believe their WS even though they know that what WS said is lie and unbelievable. you too did the same. Get IC so that you can first fix your Pain and deal with it, else it may explode one day.

There is nothing wrong in R but you should deal the cheating in right way first with IC, MC, consequences and new boundaries.


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## Larry2626

Did a double session for 1-1/2 hours today. A fair amount of yelling, crying and eventual understanding. This takes nothing more than a leap of faith on my part. The MC recommended we start the reconciliation now, as this is going to take a long time. She said we both have to start trusting each other, and we should consider having sex now, as we enjoyed it together for so many years, and it would help to start off our new relationship and its the only intimacy we've ever known, as neither one of us are big talkers. I'm still up in the air about that, but giving it some thought. My ignoring my wife, not being a good listener and not being as emotional as she would have liked over the years did not justify her actions, but seems to have been the catalyst for our growing apart over the last few years. At this point, for better or worse, I'm believing her story, because if I don't it will be like an anchor never letting us move on. I have to learn to trust her again, and she has to demonstrate that she deserves the trust. I told her this killed me so much, that I know for a fact I could not ever handle anything like this again, ever. I laid down some ground rules, that if she follows them, will not put her in a compromising situation again, and that she has to internalize that the reason she shouldn't do this again is not only because its wrong, immoral, unethical and because she's married, more so because she has a husband at home who loves her unconditionally, and that she would not like anyone doing this to her, what she did to me. I think that's enough to build a relatively stable foundation, and can only hope for the best in the future.


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## Thor

One wrinkle to consider is that if, big IF, infidelity is a factor in your state for alimony. In some states an infidelity is considered even though the divorce is officially no-fault. Her affair could reduce or eliminate your alimony, or perhaps even affect the distribution of assets.

Just to be clear, the law in some states will by definition say that sex with her is forgiveness, and you give up any legal advantage which her infidelity may bring.


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## bandit.45

Does the MC know she has Herpes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

You lie and deny the truth long enough, then the lies becomes your new reality?


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## the guy

Sound good Larry, as long as she can act like you are always next to her then you guys are on a good start. 
How about the IC for the both of you?
She needs to look at the reason she took that leap not just by stepping out of the marriage but the litteral leap if you know what I mean.
Something inside her caused this instant choice to go "back there" that need must be communicated to you so you can fill it.

Hope you guys learn how to talk, just like in my case the sex is great but talking about the "need" and even the "were" can inhance the marriage and fill her void.

I guess what I'm saying is my wife can now be nasty with her husband only and not worry about what I think of her b/c I love her. No more hiding that side of her.


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## Larry2626

> Does the MC know she has Herpes?


Yes she knows. And my wife just yesterday got approved by the insurance company for 20 sessions just like I did. So she will have IC to address her issues as well.


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## jh52

Larry2626 said:


> Yes she knows. And my wife just yesterday got approved by the insurance company for 20 sessions just like I did. So she will have IC to address her issues as well.


Good luck Larry !!


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## happyman64

That is a really good start Larry. 

And I think you have no choice but to take that leap of faith.

And at the same time have fun exploring that other side of your wife.

I pray that it will take you both in a positive direction.

Good Luck

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

Herpes. I value my health more. I'll be really, really depress if I make a serious decision to catch it.

And I'll be pissed at the counselor who would suggest it.


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## bandit.45

aug said:


> Herpes. I value my health more. I'll be really, really depress if I make a serious decision to catch it.
> 
> And I'll be pissed at the counselor who would suggest it.


I totally agree. Until I knew for sure my wife's herpes was inactive, I would not touch her. And if we eventually did have sex I would still wear a condom. Man what a sh*tty way to have to rebuild a marriage! Now he will have to have protected sex for the rest of their marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express

I am sorry but your MC---is full of sh*t,pardon my french

You have been on here 2 F'ing weeks---and 2 F'ing weeks after she has ripped you apart, your MC---says start your R, have sex---just go back to the way it was

Well it can't go back to the way it was, I don't care how bad your wife thought things were, she sure as He*l wasn't living in a one room shack, wondering where her next meal was coming from, and if she was gonna have to walk, to get where she was going---SHE HAD A GODD*MN GOOD LIFE---everything was there for her, she had it all, and SHE HERSELF VOLUNTARILY THREW IT ALL AWAY

25 dates, jumping in the back of truck and having sex, and YES they had sex----and 2 Two, 2 Two, weeks later, she gets to move right back into her cushy lifestyle---as if nothing happened

Hey its your life, you get to live with your wife, you get to talk to her, you get to check for your STD situation, you get to remember, what she did, you get to visualize what she did, so its on you---but give me a break

Two 2 weeks, and she is back in her comfy little lifestyle---WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY

Your MC, is full of SH*T.


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## Larry2626

Accountability isn't the issue here. Moving on with living and not dwelling on every detail which was continually killing me, is. I will not forget the past, but if I don't try to bury some of it, it will bury me. And there's no way I can move on and try and repair things if I keep thinking the way I was thinking. Also, if 2 weeks of hell isn't enough, what's a good number for you? 5 weeks? 3 months? A year? I can only punish her for so long until we can move ahead and try to make things better, or start off fresh. Every time I punish her, I punish me. It hurts both of us at the same time. Her lifestyle might be the same, but her life is totally different. She's now accountable for everywhere she goes, and every minute she's gone. I truly think she make a huge mistake, realizes it wasn't worth it and realizes the damage it caused. With the shear giant number of posts you have compared to my measley hand full, I'm sure you know more about this topic than I do. Only thing is I know me better. I came here for help, guidance, sympathy, to vent, advice and all that, and I'm willing to listen to any and all advice, and put nobody down for their opinion as we all have different reference points. So don't worry that you're angry-sounds like its with me. I'm glad to listen to it, but sometimes I have to keep moving on with what I think is the best plan.


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## lordmayhem

Yet another example of a no good MC, one that wants you to rug sweep after only 2 weeks. There are a lot of bad ones out there that have no experience in dealing with infidelity. These are the ones that do more harm than good, and which is why sometimes you have to shop around until you find one that fits your situation. You're still in the initial shock/denial phase, eventually you will reach your anger phase, what then?


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## Eli-Zor

" I can only punish her for so long until we can move ahead and try to make things better, or start off fresh. Every time I punish her, I punish me. It hurts both of us at the same time. Her lifestyle might be the same, but her life is totally different. She's now accountable for everywhere she goes, and every minute she's gone. I truly think she make a huge mistake, realizes it wasn't worth it and realizes the damage it caused" 

It reads like all she has missed is the comfort of the material items in life , what she should have missed is you and the love between you. I see you use the word punish , is that how you describe the boundaries and consequences she has to face. If it is , give up now.

Find a pro marriage councellor who is experienced and recovering marriage and who understands how to help you implement boundaries to affair proof your marriage. Try a call to one of the Harley's from the marriagebuilders site to help you understand what to do to recover the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Larry2626

You misread what I wrote. The punishment is not the new accountabilty, rather the constant interrogations, accusations and general hatred for the past 3 weeks. That had to stop or there was no way to move ahead. And that was punishing both of us at the same time, especially for me having to re-live all the glorious details.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Larry2626 said:


> *Accountability isn't the issue here. Moving on with living* and not dwelling on every detail which was continually killing me, is. *I will not forget the past, but if I don't try to bury some of it, it will bury me*. And there's no way I can move on and try and repair things if I keep thinking the way I was thinking. Also,* if 2 weeks of hell isn't enough, what's a good number for you? 5 weeks? 3 months? A year? *I can only punish her for so long until we can move ahead and try to make things better, or start off fresh. Every time I punish her, I punish me. It hurts both of us at the same time. Her lifestyle might be the same, but her life is totally different. She's now accountable for everywhere she goes, and every minute she's gone. I truly think she make a huge mistake, realizes it wasn't worth it and realizes the damage it caused. With the shear giant number of posts you have compared to my measley hand full, I'm sure you know more about this topic than I do. Only thing is I know me better. I came here for help, guidance, sympathy, to vent, advice and all that, and I'm willing to listen to any and all advice, and put nobody down for their opinion as we all have different reference points. So don't worry that you're angry-sounds like its with me. I'm glad to listen to it, but sometimes I have to keep moving on with what I think is the best plan.


 you cant live in the past. What she did was a mistake, Move on with your life. Do what your MC advices, she will change and will be faithful to you in future. Take care of the herps.


you came here to hear from others that what your wife did was not a big thing. We dont know who you are, for us you are only another BS, who was cheated and susceptible to deathly Herps. We are concerned about your well being only. WE are not here to split you from your wonderful wife. We only wish a good life for you as persons who were being cheated by our SO, we know the pain, roller coaster of emotions you are going on. we know the inablity to take a decision and need for continuous assurance from others that you are going to be ok.

As a BS, I did many things wrongly, I always hoped for some help from some anonymous persons as I was too much ashamed to talk to my friends or family. You are getting that help which many of us didn't have at that time.

Many people from different part of the world, so opinions differ, but cheaters every were in the world follow the same script. Opinion is like a$$hole everyone have one.So take what you want from here and leave the rest.

But in your case the opinion was almost unanimous, its rare here. 

Take care of your health. good luck.


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## Jibril

Larry2626 said:


> Accountability isn't the issue here. Moving on with living and not dwelling on every detail which was continually killing me, is. I will not forget the past, but if I don't try to bury some of it, it will bury me. And there's no way I can move on and try and repair things if I keep thinking the way I was thinking. Also, if 2 weeks of hell isn't enough, what's a good number for you? 5 weeks? 3 months? A year? I can only punish her for so long until we can move ahead and try to make things better, or start off fresh. Every time I punish her, I punish me. It hurts both of us at the same time. Her lifestyle might be the same, but her life is totally different. She's now accountable for everywhere she goes, and every minute she's gone. I truly think she make a huge mistake, realizes it wasn't worth it and realizes the damage it caused. With the shear giant number of posts you have compared to my measley hand full, I'm sure you know more about this topic than I do. Only thing is I know me better. I came here for help, guidance, sympathy, to vent, advice and all that, and I'm willing to listen to any and all advice, and put nobody down for their opinion as we all have different reference points. So don't worry that you're angry-sounds like its with me. I'm glad to listen to it, but sometimes I have to keep moving on with what I think is the best plan.


No, no, no. Larry, you cannot "bury" this. An affair isn't something you can simply sweep under the rug and ignore. It's like a bomb. You can bury it, sure, and try and forget about it. But one day, when you least expect it, something will trigger this bomb, and all the emotional turmoil and pain will _explode_. You _will_ blow.

You need to "diffuse" the bomb first. You need to deal with this now. Do whatever you need to heal, but you need to _heal_ before you can reconcile. You must understand that yours is a unique and particularly difficult marriage to mend, as a result of the STD. You need to be 100% confident that you can work this out with your wife before you can commit to her and the marriage again, because you will be willingly accepting her STD when you do.

We don't want you to torture yourself, or her. Neither of you deserve it. No she doesn't deserve to be tortured. But she needs to face herself and dig deep to find why she made the choices she did. 

Larry, I see that you're still defending her by the wording in your posts. She didn't make a "mistake." This is what all cheaters and betrayed spouses say to justify the infidelity. Hers was a conscious and deliberate _choice_. The wool has been pulled, and the naive filter you saw your marriage through has been shattered. She can cheat on you. She _has_. You both need to find out "why" before you can move on with the marriage. You will need to come to terms with her affair, and whether or not you can live with her as a result, before you can commit again.

Putting this behind you is a mistake. I _urge_ you to get another marriage counselor. One that deals with infidelity in particular. Two weeks of torturing yourselves, and you have no answers? You've been doing it wrong. You counselor isn't helping.


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## jnj express

Hey Larry---I have no answers, about anything---there are no answers---ultimately this is all on you, and what you can live with

What I am saying to you is this----your wife of 30 yrs---replaced you, not legit, by a D., or Sep. but by just going and taking another man to herself-----she is married to you, but dating her lover---she climbs in the backseat of his truck---she voluntarily went, SHE KNEW WHAT WAS GONNA HAPPEN---also she got you an extra little present------that AMOUNTS TO THE MURDERING OF YOUR MGE.---In relationship parlance it is a crime, the one crime that goes along with the cheating----if this were a crime that would go to the D A, you and everyone else would be demanding punishment---so far there is no punishment here----

By demanding that she check in, and her whereabouts be known to you every minute---how is that equating to a punishment----for replacing you with another man, for destroying you, the making her check in, is nothing----how your destruction is balanced out with punishment---I have no idea---I know what I would do---but that only serves for me---but you cannot just let her back into her prior lifestyle--2 weeks after her admission of guilt, with nothing more than checking in, for a punishment---just my opinion.


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## Larry2626

I appreciate your opinions, and am just curious. If it were you (and in many cases, you have been in my shoes), except for murder or revenge, what is justifiable punishment for infidelity (seriously)? Many seem to think its the threat of spending the rest of her life alone; the threat of losing everything she has after a 30 year lifetime with me; the loss of security and someone she knows she can trust to grow old with? Aside from those, what do you all think since that seems to be a current discussion-that 2 or 3 weeks is not enough punishment no matter what that punishment has been.


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## Jibril

Larry2626 said:


> I appreciate your opinions, and am just curious. If it were you (and in many cases, you have been in my shoes), except for murder or revenge, what is justifiable punishment for infidelity (seriously)? Many seem to think its the threat of spending the rest of her life alone; the threat of losing everything she has after a 30 year lifetime with me; the loss of security and someone she knows she can trust to grow old with? Aside from those, what do you all think since that seems to be a current discussion-that 2 or 3 weeks is not enough punishment no matter what that punishment has been.


The problem is that you seem to be confusing "consequence" with punishment. You're not trying to _hurt_ your wife. Transparency, counseling, these are not punishments. These are meant to strengthen your marriage and get to the bottom of the affair and your marital problems. 

You're trying to get her to come to terms with her infidelity. You need to know _why_ she did what she did. This is not a "punishment." How can you stay committed to a woman who cheated and doesn't know why?

One of the purposes of consequences is to force her to feel guilt and remorse for what she did. Consequences also let the cheating partner know that the BS is _not_ fooling around, and is capable and willing to put their foot down and fight against the things the do not tolerate in their marriage.

I daresay knowing she got an STD as a result of her stupidity is "punishment" enough. However, you need to know if she feels true remorse for her actions. You need to know if she feels bad for what she did to _you_. Exposure tends to helps, since it reveals to the people that she loves that she has been unfaithful. Nothing guilts you quite like your mom and dad knowing you ruined your own marriage. 

Take a look at that chart. If your wife is doing the actions on the right side, you know she isn't actually remorseful, and is simply looking to sweep this all under the rug.


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## jnj express

Hey Larry---let me take this one step further, then I won't bother you anymore

If someone were to just plain for no good reason, they can come up with, or for spite, or to experience some excitement---they were to slam your bike over and damage it---basically beyond repair----what would you do, what would you want-----this would not be put to rest in 2 weeks would it---you would want retribution, civilly, and criminally, would you not

You are not far from your golden years, where you will spend, much more time with your wife, than you do know, its just the way it is-------your wife knew that this was all approaching, and yet she willingly, voluntarily put it all at risk---does she just get to walk away, as if nothing happened, while you suffer all the hurt/pain, she has wrought, for who knows how long.

I got tell you one other thing---I don't care what your wife says---they were together for at least 25 dates, are you really gonna tell me nothing happened but talk and coffee, TWENTY FIVE TIMES????????


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## happyman64

And Larry in time you will realize there is no punishemnt worthy of infidelity.
Murder does fit. Revenge does not make it go away it just adds misery.

Not even her std because that is a reminder to her of her poor choice and a daily reminder to you of her betrayal/stupidity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

Larry2626 said:


> I appreciate your opinions, and am just curious. If it were you (and in many cases, you have been in my shoes), except for murder or revenge, what is justifiable punishment for infidelity (seriously)? Many seem to think its the threat of spending the rest of her life alone; the threat of losing everything she has after a 30 year lifetime with me; the loss of security and someone she knows she can trust to grow old with? Aside from those, what do you all think since that seems to be a current discussion-that 2 or 3 weeks is not enough punishment no matter what that punishment has been.


You pretty much listed the punishments for infidelity to a T. Besides those, there's nothing else really. Like Jibril said, transparency, counselling aren't exactly punishments, they're just designed to strengthen the marriage.


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## Machiavelli

Without the pox, she'd still be banging the guy. Larry, if you're bound and determined to stay with her no matter what, how do you feel about open marriage? I mean, you need to get some relief somehow, right? And you won't be doing that with your poxed wife, will you?

Here's the thing; you're going to have to use a rubber with your WW from now on and that means your wife won't be able to absorb the testosterone and other mood altering chemicals in your semen. She'll be getting less and less out of sex, in the happy mood and libido department. Your sex life is just going to get worse and worse. Is that any way to live?


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## the guy

Strengthening the marriage,I think thats the important thing in this case.
I think you and your wife need to understand what that need was that made her behave the way she did. 
And if having sex in public or some other kink comes up then the both of you need to act on it. But first you have to figure what the behavoir is so you as her spouse can fill it.


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## the guy

@ machiavella, he can always pull the condom off and put his semen on her face and she can eat it with her hands. Would that get the absorbsion that you talk about?

And to other, for some women that could count as a consequences?

Again here I go thinking out side the box!


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## aug

Larry2626 said:


> I appreciate your opinions, and am just curious. If it were you (and in many cases, you have been in my shoes), except for murder or revenge, what is justifiable punishment for infidelity (seriously)? Many seem to think *its the threat of spending the rest of her life alone*; *the threat of losing everything she has after a 30 year lifetime with me; the loss of security and someone she knows she can trust to grow old with*? Aside from those, what do you all think since that seems to be a current discussion-that 2 or 3 weeks is not enough punishment no matter what that punishment has been.



So, did you lose your "security"? Do you know you can trust her to grow old with now? How do you know she's not going to repeat?

Why do you think she's going to spend the rest of her life alone? Is she not capable of finding another man? How did she find her lovers?

Did she care about the 30 years with you? Did she value her marriage and you while she's banging her lovers?


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## keko

Larry, what will you do when you catch herpes too? How would you feel?


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## Bellavista

Judgemental much, people


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## jnj express

Other punishments---no sex for a while, no marital bedroom for a while, let her live in a small room, with all her clothes, and cosmetics---take away her spending priveleges--isolate her for a while, just as she did to Larry, there are things that can be done, to show some form of punishment.

If she doesn't like any of these things, or won't put up with them, then I guess she doesn't really want the mge---But a woman in her early 50's is not just gonna pull up stakes, and leave her mge----she won't be able to just go it on her own

Just some random thoughts on punishment---none of it has to be tooooo long, but just enuff to let her know, that she just doesn't get to come back as if nothing happened, aside from monitering


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## lordmayhem

Bellavista said:


> Judgemental much, people


Nope. Just seeing people make the same mistakes over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. And the main one most BS make is rushing into R too quickly and wanting to rug sweep.


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## TeaLeaves4

bandit.45 said:


> I agree with Shamwow. The dates and the EA are the most hurtful part of this.
> 
> I think she is lying about the sex. 10 seconds of penetration doesn't seem like it would be enough for her to get fullblown herpes. I think they had full-on intercourse for at least several minutes.
> 
> My guess is that she is so scared you will divorce her that she has walled herself up in a castle of lies and doesn't even know what is a real memory or what is a lie.


She may very well be lying. But the fact is that viral stds such as herpes and HPV do not require even ten seconds of contact to spread. They can do so on much less time than that.. If his penis was shedding the virus at that time, a split second will do it. Scary but true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kallan Pavithran

Larry consequences are not punishments, its a way to keep the marriage stronger.
Now you know your wife had issues with boundaries, how such a person can have the privacy, she need your help in keeping her boundaries and making the marriage stronger. Is this a punishment, NO.

BS wants to believe their WS and move on with their life. They want to forget and forgive as soon as possible, this is the same all the WS also wanted. If you feel that you questioning her for 3 weeks was too much for her or you then what will you say about people who asks questions about the A yrs after their R.

You are not going to forget it, even if you wanted badly, but you can forgive her for your peace of mind and move on with your life KNOWING what she is capable of/did. But you should know the full truth.

Many people who replays to your thread don't believe that you know the full truth or your wife is truly remorseful (from what you wrote here). R can only succeed if the WS is truly remorseful and ready to answer any question repeatedly for any time in near future, This is not punishment.


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## Larry2626

The only way I can gauge remorse is by her actions. She has apologized profusely over and over again. The other night while she was laying in my arms, she sobbed for about an hour and a half. I think she's realized her mistake and how it has affected both of us individually and as a couple. I want to move on and make the future as good as it can be for us, given the circumstances. I can only hope that at some point she will recognize what drove her to do this, and why she did it, and internalize it so it doesn't ever happen again.


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## Acabado

> The only way I can gauge remorse is by her actions


It's very wise. You are very fresh out of DDay. IMHO there's no reason to say to are rugsweeping/intend to rugsweep this whole thing. Just keep being vigilant of her.
Hang tough.


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## Larry2626

Figured you all deserved an update on my situation, as you were all there for me when my life took a turn for the worse. Life is moving on. A new life. Meetings with the marriage counselor once a week for an hour and a half are helping a lot. The initial anger and disbelief have basically subsided, although I do have an occasional relapse. I have stopped waking my wife up in the middle of the night and interrogating her, which has reduced the pain for both of us, but we still discuss it when I have questions. The sex...well that's kind of weird. We've gone back to it. Not on a regular basis like before, but once in a while. Wearing a condom for the first time in 30 years just plain sucks, and is a constant reminder of this event. I can't get the same feeling or sensitivity with it as without it, so I basically wear it for a while, then take it off, and she finishes me off with her hands. I think that's about the best we can hope for. I'm constantly worried about where its OK to touch her with the threat of herpes and that takes a lot of the fun and spontaneity out of it, which also sucks. I've spoken to my primary care physician, her gynecologist, the CDC in Atlanta, the National Institue of Helath in DC, the NY State Dept. of Health, and an infectious disease specialist, and hit most every website on the net for Herpes 2 info. Its amazing how such a prevalent disease has no consistency at all in diagnosis or prevention. Each resource has different opinions. For example, she tested positive by a culture which is like 100% guaranteed, but tested negative in a blood test. I also tested negative. Her gyno says there's a high percentage of false negative tests, and I probably have it even though my blood test came back negative. My doctor says that's totally untrue, and if I tested negative, there's a 99% chance the test was right. The most exact tests come in around 94% positive accuracy, and 99% negative accuracy. Worst of it is, if she's got asymptomatic shedding, I really don't know for sure where I can touch her, whcih means cuddling, touching etc. is virtually out. Someone here likened it to having a room mate rather than a wife. Now I understand.... To make matters freakin' worse, 2 condoms already broke during intimacy. Now I have to go back for testing in a few months AGAIN. Anyway, we're still together and making the best of a new relationship on many levels. The accountability is now there on a daily basis, and that plus her actions are slowly allowing me to get trust back into the relationship. Well that's it for now. Life goes on....


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## survivorwife

I'm wishing you well, Larry. Thanks for the update.


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## aug

It's interesting that the sex drive is stronger than the wish to stay healthy. I think it's the biological need to procreate.

You know she has it because of her outbreak. And it can only be detected with a culture test. Maybe that's the test you need in the future to confirm when you have your outbreak.


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## Thor

The accuracy is reported in studies, which the ones I have seen online are all based on how long since exposure. The test which differentiates between HSV1 and HSV2 has a very low rate of false positives, but the false negatives are dependant on time. If a person is already HSV1 infected (oral herpes), it takes longer for the HSV2 antibodies to build up and be detected.

I would have her retested for the blood test. She might have had a false negative because of taking the test too soon.

The culture should be 100% if it came back positive. Plus she had some kind of lesion which was swabbed to do that test. Seems like a definite diagnosis, but I would also have that test repeated if she has another outbreak.

I presume both tests she had were specific to HSV2?


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## Larry2626

The sex drive is part of a normal marital relationship. Its mostly the only thing we have that's (supposedly) still between just us. That is what brings the closeness together, and hopefully that is what will help re-build the relationship. As for the herpes, if I never have an outbreak, I can't get a culture as there's nothing to test. The blood test apparently doesn't check for a virus, rather the antibodies against the virus. Sometimes it takes months or even years to build up the antibodies. Some places say I'll never build up antibodies unless I have an outbreak, in which case I may test negative forever. Since most of the virus is spread by people who don't even know they have it, I now understand a little bit more about it. Its the asymptomatic shedding that's still the mystery. It seems that an infected person can shed the virus once, or several times a year without any signs or feelings that an outbreak is coming on. As such, the virus can still be spread with my skin touching her outbreak area on her skin, even though she has no open sores. Its much easier to spread in a mucous membrane area, which is why women get it easier and more often than men. It can go through microscopic cuts in your skin, and in bodily fluids and some say; it isn't easily spread in the mouth as its an acidic environment. Most agree that both Herpes 1 and 2 can get on your lips or genital area-either one truly sucks I guess. Unless I wear a full body condom, there's a chance of her bodily fluids still getting on me down there, and getting inside me somehow. Can't believe how much I'm learning, and still have to learn. The question keeps coming up: If I stay with her for the rest of my life, is there any chance things would be easier if I actually had, or get Herpes from her? Sounds crazy, as no sane person would ever want genital lesions (as infrequent as they might be), but at least then the pressure and stress would be gone as far as our sexual relationship. I can't be the first one to ever have this crazy thought. I'm not considering doing that on purpose, and I equate it to suicide, just thinking out loud.


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## deejov

Thoughts are good. There is a lot to think about.

My h had reocurrent outbreaks after the 1st one, almost like constant. He finally got a rx for it, and he says it hasn't come back since then. (we aren't intimate anyways, we are done) but for him, his doctor agreed it was the stress of hiding it from me that contributed to his outbreaks. Once he told me, things calmed down.

And I do think there is some merit that the first few years are worse. If someone has had it for a very long time, the outbreaks are mild and far between, if at all. 

Yeah, I have a close female friend with an exH who's had it for many years. She has tested positive for antibodies, but never had an outbreak, or so mild she never noticed. She made a choice to stop using condoms along the way. Because he rarely ever had an outbreak, only once every few years and they abstained. 

Uncircumsized men are a higher risk, same as women. 

How "bad" was her outbreak? Several sores, or just one? Has it come back? There are milder strains... and persistent ones. 

It's part of her now. It can't be undone. You accept it, or you don't. The truth is, anyone who has sex is at risk for herpes. 

But there might be something to waiting for about a year. I think I read that the chances of shedding \ passing it on decreased with the length of time a person has had it. Until it becomes more dormant. Just thinking out loud myself.


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## Larry2626

Just one sore this July, and first and only outbreak almost 9 months after being exposed and none since. I'm still worried about getting it when she shows no signs of shedding. An outbreak can be either with or without a sore. With a sore is easy--hands off and stay away. Without a sore can be most anytime, anywhere with no external signs, Just becasue she ****ed up, doesn't mean I'm interested in the same thing. Given a choice, I would rather have no sores-thank you very much. If your friend decided to stop using condoms just because her ex had outbreaks so infrequently, how did she not know he wasn't really having an outbreak, just not showing signs of it, meaning he was contagious? I was specifically told that just because you don't see sores, doesn't mean you can't get it or give it.


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## Larry2626

So its been about 2 years since this crap started, and I've been trying to make things work. Had a blood test done right after I found out and tested negative. Had another one done this past Saturday, and results came back positive today. I'm f***ed. Doctor said cases of false positives are rare, but recommended having another test done in 3 months. According to the HSV-1 test results, anything between 0.90 and 1.10 is "equivocal"; anything over 1.10 is "positive". I scored over 5.00. According to the HSV-2 test results, anything between 0.90 and 1.10 is "equivocal"; anything over 1.10 is "positive". I scored 1.16. My lucky, freakin' day. Sucks to be me today......


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## lenzi

She gave you the gift that keeps on giving.


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## tom67

Sorry to hear it.


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## anchorwatch

Sorry to hear Larry. I know those who live with it. It can be done. What is the wife's reaction? Has she had further testing?


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## bandit.45

Larry I'm sorry man. I was hoping your story would have a happy ending.


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## SongoftheSouth

Larry2626 said:


> So its been about 2 years since this crap started, and I've been trying to make things work. Had a blood test done right after I found out and tested negative. Had another one done this past Saturday, and results came back positive today. I'm f***ed. Doctor said cases of false positives are rare, but recommended having another test done in 3 months. According to the HIV-1 test results, anything between 0.90 and 1.10 is "equivocal"; anything over 1.10 is "positive". I scored over 5.00. According to the HIV-2 test results, anything between 0.90 and 1.10 is "equivocal"; anything over 1.10 is "positive". I scored 1.16. My lucky, freakin' day. Sucks to be me today......


Damn she cheated on you, admitted to having herpes, you took her back anyway and now you have the HIV/AIDS virus. Have you considered suing the brilliant marriage counselor who advised you guys to start having sex 2 years ago in order to reconnect??? Man these marriage counselors are something else.


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## Augusto

OMG that sucks!!!


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## clipclop2

I don't even know what to say. Anyone who doesn't get the seriousness of infidelity should read your thread and realize it can happen to anyone and occasionally the damage is permanent.

Sorry to hear this. How is your insurance? Are you going to be able to manage the care financially? The meds are pretty effective these days.


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## Augusto

what about her levels? How long has she been known to have it? When did this first show for her after the affair? Or has she yet to be checked?


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## Thor

HIV or HSV?


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## adriana

I'm sorry to hear that.... it's so unfair. What was your wife's reaction to this?


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## Larry2626

Really, Really Sorry all....its HSV-2 not HIV-2. Emotions got the best of my typing fingers yesterday. Haven't spoken to her since I found out. I texted her to "stick her Valtrex up her ass now", and she slept on the couch last night. Calling an infectious disease expert this morning. Read some of his posts that said a 1.16 reading is most probably a false positive since its so low, and sometimes HSV-2 readings show positive when you have a high HSV-1 result. He also recommended a Western Blot Test, which is much more accurate than the IGG AB Herpeselect test I had done twice. Just need to find out if I should have that other test done now, or wait three months like my doctor said, and do both at the same time.


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## anchorwatch

If it's more reliable and would give me an answer earlier, I'd take it.

What's the cost? Would the cost be covered by insurance?


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## Larry2626

Having the test done at a local infectious disease specialist next Wednesday at 2:15. They send it to a special lab at the University of Washington in Seattle. Insurance hopefully will cover it. If not, I don't really care. Any amount of money will be worth the peace of mind. Then I just sit tight and wait anxiously for the results. Fingers crossed... Will update you all with the news. Thanks again.


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## Augusto

adriana said:


> i'm sorry to hear that.... It's so unfair. What was your wife's reaction to this?


seriously dout she gives a sh!t!!


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## always_hopefull

SongoftheSouth said:


> Damn she cheated on you, admitted to having herpes, you took her back anyway and now you have the HIV/AIDS virus. Have you considered suing the brilliant marriage counselor who advised you guys to start having sex 2 years ago in order to reconnect??? Man these marriage counselors are something else.


Please note the OP's original post states HSV, not HIV. Big, big difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Larry2626 said:


> Having the test done at a local infectious disease specialist next Wednesday at 2:15. They send it to a special lab at the University of Washington in Seattle. Insurance hopefully will cover it. If not, I don't really care. Any amount of money will be worth the peace of mind. Then I just sit tight and wait anxiously for the results. Fingers crossed... Will update you all with the news. Thanks again.


Go take a ride upstate to the mountains, and let the scenery clear your head for a while. 

Best


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## lenzi

always_hopefull said:


> Please note the OP's original post states HSV, not HIV. Big, big difference.


True. Herpes type 2 is better than AIDS and the poster you replied to is confusing them.

Still, no picnic.


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## Larry2626

It was my mistake. I originally posted HIV yesterday, and corrected it to HSV this morning. Sorry again to have misled anyone.


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## LongWalk

How is your wife holding up?


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## Larry2626

Haven't spoken to her since yesterday morning, and really have no intentions to do so. She hasn't mentioned it. If she does, I guess I'll tell her about my upcoming test, and deal with this some more next week, depending on the results.


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## Lloyd Dobler

Larry,
I'm sorry to hear you're upset about this, but the timing and your anger makes me curious about this. You said it's been over 2 years since your wife had the affair where she contracted herpes, and clearly you're still with her. What are you more upset about, the affair or the HSV?

It seems like this would be a bigger deal if you WEREN'T intending to stay with her.


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## Larry2626

Good question, but try to understand.
If I dump her, and have HSV it makes life very difficult to find another woman who would accept me with what I've got. Also, if I dump her and don't have HSV, I have been become very distrusting of other women, and how could I ever believe another woman who tells me she's "clean" and isn't going to give me something I didn't want my wife to give me in the first place. How could I ever know that a woman I met might not be the same lying, cheating, diseased b**ch I just left? If I stay here with her, and don't have HSV, I realize just how easy it is to catch it, as there are rarely signs, and even medication won't stop her from giving it to me now, or sometime down the road. If I stay with her and do have it, I guess I don't have to worry about anything anymore, as she can't give me anything I don't already have. I can't be the first one to be this confused.
Understand now?
This sucks no matter how I look at it.


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## ArmyofJuan

Most people have herpes and don't even know it:

Study Finds Herpes Virus In 98 Percent Of Healthy Participants -- ScienceDaily

_Usually _ when you first get it you'll have an outbreak in about 2 weeks or so of getting it. If you haven't seen anything in 2 years good chance you are either in the clear or maybe just a carrier.

My ex-gf had it and its not that big a deal really, more of a social stigma than anything. She got it from her first boyfriend.


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## bryanp

Did she ever do the polygraph to make sure that she did not received the herpes from someone else?


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## LongWalk

Larry, I don't believe your wife's original story. Will Kane and others explained that it was possible but not believable. Aren't you angry that you cannot reconcile her account with what is more likely, namely that they sex many times. That would explain her infection and the telephone.

Herpes is a drag but it's not HIV. I had cold sores years ago but not now. They are the oral version. Hopefully, even if you are positive neither you nor your wife are going to suffer frequent breakouts.

My suggestion is to ask yourself if you love her. If you do, accept her. Tell her that she is a good mother. Look for ways better yourself and your marriage.

The herpes put a nasty end to the affair. Don't let it end your marriage. That decision belongs to you, based on your relationship and your children.


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## barbados

The real question is why are you still with her ?


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## Larry2626

Boy...you guys sure ask some tough questions, and believe me, I've asked myself all of these before. Some can be answered; some just can't I guess.
Love can't be quantified or qualified. I used to love and like her. Then I loved her, but didn't like her. Then I hated her. Now I'm numb. Just can't see how you can love someone who takes the most private, intimate & personal thing two people can have between each other, and just give it away to someone else, no matter what the reason. Maybe there's different types of love in this world. I don't know the answer to that, and find it very difficult justifying either answer.
Staying together for my kids sake would be a mistake I've seen many others do before. Home life sucks for us and the kids. I still can't see a strange guy moving into my house and seeing my kids more than I do. Can't see me abandoning my kids. But I also don't like the idea of me wasting away in a miserable life until my kids grow up and move out on their own. Too many good years left for me to waste what I have left. A lawyer once told me, I'd have to leave, and I can't make her leave if she doesn't want to. The lawyer said a cheating spouse is not looked at highly on by a judge, but it doesn't make her a bad mother, just a bad wife. So, I'd end up paying the mortgage and everything else, while some loser moves into my house and benefits from me giving her and him a free ride, leaving me pennies to try and live on by myself. The child support alone would be about as much as most folks make in a year, and I'd be living on the street like a penniless bum.
Why am I still with her?????
I lost a crap load of money in the stock market way back, not realizing the market was collapsing around me. Once it was too late, I just had to wait many years for the market to come back, to get back where I started. It finally happened, but took many years to get even. Maybe like having blinders on? I have almost 30 years and 4 kids invested with her. I had hoped that we could work things out, and get back to some semblance of normalcy. It has not worked out exactly as planned. I had hoped that whatever brought us together in the beginning could keep us together, even through something as strenuous as this. Fear maybe? Fear of loss; fear of starting over at 54? Fear of being alone? What the hell do I know? Many thoughts crowding my head, and no way to organize the stupid from the rational thoughts. Tried counseling and it was the biggest waste of time ever. I had hoped (and still do) that time will make this somewhat better. Perhaps 2 years hasn't been long enough. And before you ask me "how long do you plan to wait"...I have no clue.


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## bryanp

One more time.
Why have not had her take a polygraph to see if this
was really the first and only time that she cheated and
whether her story is credible?


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## Larry2626

Because the general consensus is that it really doesn't matter. If it was once or more than once with the same guy, or once with a dozen guys, it still happened and that's all that really matters. A lie is a lie. The meetings were a lie. The relationship was a lie. The sex was a lie. Everything was a lie to me. The number of guys and the frequency doesn't add or detract from the one time I know it happened. Knowing the answer to your question wouldn't make it any easier or harder for me to comprehend, and wouldn't change where I am today. Its like if somebody stabs someone to death. Does it really matter if they stabbed them once, or 42 times, and why they did it? It is what it is. All credibility was lost in that one moment.


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## bryanp

O.K..
I wish you luck.


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## commonsenseisn't

How has your wife treated you the past year? To what degree has she comprehended the horror of what she did? 

I would think this would be a factor in future decisions you make. Hope you can work it out and find happiness.


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## bandit.45

You're just going to have to find some way to make yourself happy outside the marriage. Just don't die in the vine man. Maybe find an activity that you are passionate about...pour yourself into it. Build a life for yourself that doesn't involve your wife. Support her, be kind, but marginalize her to the extent that she no longer is a factor in your self validation. 

You can live with her without needing her to make you happy. Find a way to create that happiness in yourself.


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## LongWalk

Good question – how is she treating you?

The financial situation is very real but it has nothing to do with the affair.

Your sex life seems ruined. Is your wife ruined as person?

Aren't you liable to want to cheat if you stay prisoner in this situation?


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## Larry2626

RE: "Aren't you liable to want to cheat if you stay prisoner in this situation?"
No way.
I couldn't bring myself so low to do to her what she did to me. Even given the situation, that would be hypocritical and make me no better than her.
I'm sure her life sucks as bad as mine does. She knows how bad what she did has affected me and us. But still claims it was a horrible mistake-boy is that an understatement.
I appreciate all the good wishes.
What I really need is a time machine to turn the clock way back. I'm sure we've all wished for that more than once in our lives. If only I could....


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## Roselyn

I'm a pragmatic person. If you can't move out because of heavy losses in the stock market, can you have your own room in your house? Make this room your cave man's room to rest your mind. A cheating wife who gives you herpes can also be HIV positive. Cheaters should read your post, so that they can see the grave ramifications they are exposing their spouses to.


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## Larry2626

The stock market reference was many years ago, back in 2000. I was just using it as an example of how things can happen right in front of your eyes, without you even realizing its happening. This is not so much about money, as it is about emotions, fear, morals, etc. Cheaters will never read this; only those of us who have been burned will. If anything good comes out of my story, either it lets me vent so I don't explode, and let's you (hopefully) learn something from the hell that I've lived through for the past couple of years. If that's all that comes out of this, I guess that's a good thing. Ever read the kids story, "The Tenth Good Thing About Barney"? I won't spoil it, but it comes down to something good almost always comes from something bad. Last time I read that story, my wife and I were happily married.


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## terrence4159

im sorry for what you have went through but not talking to her now because she may have gave you herpes......man how old are you 6/7. i understand it sucks but you KNEW she had herpes when you started sleeping with her again after she cheated. 

thats like going out buying a gun loading it and shooting yourself in the foot and then blaming the gun company. i understand not being over the betrayal and you will never totally get over it.

be mad at the cheating but not the maybe catching herpes cause you knew the risks you made that decision.


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## clipclop2

Why can't you take the kids?


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## Larry2626

Thanks for blaming me. I didn't ask for any of this. Unless you were in my shoes you have no idea how I feel right now. There are no instructions on how anyone individually deals with this. What she now may have given me is just the icing on the cake, and just re-opens some old wounds and memories I have been trying to put behind me. Sometimes I wish I was 6 or 7 again, so I could just close my eyes and make it all go away.


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## clipclop2

Oh, we have instructions a plenty! They are just all really good theoretical instructions!! In practice they hurt like hell!


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## lenzi

Larry2626 said:


> So, I'd end up paying the mortgage and everything else, while some loser moves into my house and benefits from me giving her and him a free ride, leaving me pennies to try and live on by myself. The child support alone would be about as much as most folks make in a year, and I'd be living on the street like a penniless bum.


I've read about this exact thing happening all the time, although do you really see yourself as having not enough money to live on your own, even in a small apartment?

Child and spousal support can be a big hit, but it's still a percentage of your income. Speak to an attorney about the numbers. It probably isn't as bad as you think. Crunch the numbers. Living on your own in a small apartment rather than with her in a state of misery has got to be better.

All that stuff about how you should stay with her because you've got Herpes is just self rationalization BS, it makes no sense but it gives you a convenient excuse to stay with her.

You need to get out, you know you can't live like this until the kids are grown. And they will grow up, and the child and spousal support will end, and you'll be ok.


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## VFW

So sorry to hear the results, this is not an uncommon outcome for your situation, but still makes it painful. The fear of contracting HSV makes it much tougher to recover, which is hard enough in and of itself. I think it is terribly wrong for folks to criticize you for staying with your wife. This is a decision that only you can make and there isn't a right or wrong. Best wishes for you and your family.


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## Imstrong123

So sorry for you and your family! Your wife had a mid life crisis I think, and made a horrible mistake. In view of your history, 30 years, kids, she says she loves you...she stopped it..I would give her ONE chance, but with therapy as a couple and both individually...As a man, it might be even harder to forgive and honestly I don't think that forgiveness is ever possible...but you can learn to live with this, accept it, accept the fact that your wife is NOT perfect, made a horrible mistake and she hurt you....eventually, if she steps up to the plate and earns your trust again, time will pass, and it will be a new history between you, and it will get easier to live with this pain. It is SO unfair to you, as it was to me...that our spouses just brought this to us, this pain, this life long sentence where the person we love the most, and have dedicated our life to, is the one who has hurt us the most too...
but starting again is not for me...IF he ever cheats again (cheating is really an understatement for what my H did, he was a serial cheater), I will leave and be by myself, my kids are grown, and I will be better off alone that with him. But again, give her one chance and see what happens. Good Luck


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## happyman64

So Larry the real question is do you have "enough" love left for your wife to hold her accountable for her affair.

I am pro R.

If I did not want to give up my current life and time with my family I would try to R.

My first step would be to get my wife to understand that affairs are not "mistakes" but conscious decisions. Bad decisions nonetheless.

Decisions have consequences.

Other than her STD ( the gift that keeps giving). What consequences has she felt.

Not to torture her but to help her understand the bad decisions she made.

And hopefully she understands the damage she has caused and can come up with a plan to recover your marriage and family.

HM


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## Larry2626

This is going on 2 years. If I didn't want to stay with her, I guess I would have left 2 years ago. The bad thoughts don't go away. I still bring it up every time she does something to piss me off. I still don't have any trust left in her. Perhaps 2 years isn't enough time. I just don't know. This is very complicated and a million thoughts run through my head every day. This may never go away.

An update on the newest blood test. I got a prescription to have blood drawn to have an HSV2 Western Blot test last week. Went to Quest Labs, but they don't do the actual test (which I already knew) and they won't draw blood and let you take it with you. Nor will they draw blood and send it to a non-Quest lab for analysis. So I went to a local hospital, and they drew the blood, spun it, and send me home with a tube of my serum. I packaged it in a kit that University of Washington sent me ($206.85 for the test) and dropped it off at FedEx for next morning delivery ($62.00). It is now in Seattle and the test takes 1-2 weeks. Eagerly awaiting the results. If it comes back positive. I'm done testing and accept that I now have HSV2. If it comes back negative, I'm a happy camper and will take a deep sigh of relief. This test is much more accurate as it tests 14 different things, as opposed to the standard IGG Herpes Select test, which only tests for 2. Once I get the results, I'll let you all know, and then need to make a decision as to what to do with the rest of my f***ed up life.


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## IIJokerII

Larry2626 said:


> This is going on 2 years. If I didn't want to stay with her, I guess I would have left 2 years ago. The bad thoughts don't go away. I still bring it up every time she does something to piss me off. I still don't have any trust left in her. Perhaps 2 years isn't enough time. I just don't know. This is very complicated and a million thoughts run through my head every day. This may never go away.
> 
> An update on the newest blood test. I got a prescription to have blood drawn to have an HSV2 Western Blot test last week. Went to Quest Labs, but they don't do the actual test (which I already knew) and they won't draw blood and let you take it with you. Nor will they draw blood and send it to a non-Quest lab for analysis. So I went to a local hospital, and they drew the blood, spun it, and send me home with a tube of my serum. I packaged it in a kit that University of Washington sent me ($206.85 for the test) and dropped it off at FedEx for next morning delivery ($62.00). It is now in Seattle and the test takes 1-2 weeks. Eagerly awaiting the results. If it comes back positive. I'm done testing and accept that I now have HSV2. If it comes back negative, I'm a happy camper and will take a deep sigh of relief. This test is much more accurate as it tests 14 different things, as opposed to the standard IGG Herpes Select test, which only tests for 2. Once I get the results, I'll let you all know, and then need to make a decision as to what to do with the rest of my f***ed up life.


 Larry, May I ask you something? Is the definitive aspect for staying with this woman based upon whether or not you may have a permanent STD? Let's say for instance you do in fact get the all clear and dodged a bullet, will you remember you aimed and fired the shot? Remember the forum title, Coping with Infidelity, and it seems that after 2 years you are unable to make any progress, despite what efforts the both of you have or have not accomplished. 

As you pointed out you will have to make a decision to make regarding your fvcked up life. But it is yours if you take it back, by being consumed in limbo and the invariable emotional ebb and flow from remaining in this situation your hesitation to decide to move forward regarding this test outcome is not based on logical thought, more like an institutionalized way of tolerating your situation for what it is. Maybe it is even the fact that you are afraid to meet a new partner due to this STD and have resolved the fact that since your wife is positive too (Maybe, Hope Luck befalls you) you can at least have a sexual partner with no worries, can't make it worse. 

Forget waiting for the test, make the call now, the one that will make you all the better.


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## Larry2626

This is the most illogical and emotional thing I have ever faced in my life. Having 4 kids and burying close friends was stressful. This situation is beyond that. My most recent test results have just brought back so much anger, that until this is cleared up, I'm not in a position to make any rational decisions. As far as me "firing the shot", I have issues (not to be discussed here) with wearing condoms. They just don't "work" for me. I was misled or just stupid, thinking her taking Valtrex would keep me from getting her disease. It just reduces outbreaks, but can still be spread through asymptomatic shedding. What a perfect disease...no cure, maybe no symptoms, but always there. Yeah, I took a shot, and possibly lost. Staying or leaving are both difficult decisions. Especially now that I am jaded, and not sure I can ever trust another woman to be honest with me. Like going form the frying pan into the fire. If I stay, at least I know what I'm working with, and can at least find peace in knowing that. If I leave, is the grass going to be any greener with someone else? I truly don't know. I thought I hit rock bottom when she told me of the affair and her disease. I guess I was wrong, as it got worse last week when I now tested positive. I feel like a part of that guy is now in me, as weird as that sounds.
I am not in a position to make the decision now. I need those test results back to at least clear my head from this newest development. Sorry....


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## thummper

Larry, how has your wayward wife been acting through all of this. Does she understand, I mean really understand, what you're going through? Have you discussed the possibility of splitting up with her? I'd like to know how she's been behaving.
Good luck to you, brother. I hope those tests turn out negative. Sending you good thoughts!!!


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## IIJokerII

Larry2626 said:


> What a perfect disease...no cure, maybe no symptoms, but always there. Yeah, I took a shot, and possibly lost.


 Damn, you know I feel your pain sir, I couldn't imagine being stuck with a inescapable situation, never visible to anyone but you for the pain and bad feelings you are experiencing. I can't even begin to imagine the always there feeling either, never being able to detach from it, that is unfortunate. 

Yes, you took a risk, for love maybe, who knows really, the point is you did it, and I suppose you did in a way lose, and will have to live with it for as long as you can. With no cure, no symptoms you will have to manage this perfect, insidious disease for, well, a while to say the least..................................................

And that's just your marriage to your Wife we're talking about here bub, the disease did not find you by chance, it was by choice; Hers.


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## ThePheonix

I didn't read the entire 20+ pages so I don't know if you discovered their escapade went beyond their "failed quickie" in the parking lot. (albeit the HIV you've got adds another dimension to it ). At any rate, if it's any consolation, her abruptly ending this escapade is not unheard of. I have stated before I operated as an escort for a number of years and had more than one client deal with the last minute conscience, change their mind and pull the plug. Some women just can't go through with it. 
Additionally, her degree and method of undress for a parking a lot get together is probably SOP given that she would want to be able to recover as quickly as possible if someone approached.


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## Larry2626

How's she behaving?? She has expressed remorse, apologized, cried and I believe is truly sorry for what she did, and what she has done to me. She still makes me lunch and dinner every day, and I guess she's making an effort to have some 'normalcy' around the house. She knows I am a mere shell of my former self, and she basically killed me. I have turned to complete numbness, ignore her, and basically have little or no conversation with her (at least for the past couple of weeks). Even though she deserves no sympathy, her life sucks too, and she has this disease inside of her as well. I guess I feel sorry for her to some degree. We have discussed the options of staying together or splitting up, and she says, although the decision is ultimately mine to make, that she would rather stay together, not for the kids, but for us. It can never be as it was years ago, but we're hoping to at least make it better than it is. Its hard, thinking you're going to spend the rest of your life with someone, only to have that plan change after all these years. At (almost) 55, I'm not looking forward to being alone, nor starting over. I'm sure she isn't either.


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## happyman64

Larry

I think you are correct in saying that you are too emotional right now to make any decisions until your test results come back.

I also think your wife is remorseful. But has she ever been able to answer why she had the affair?

Has she come to the realization that not only did she cheat but she was used by a jerk. 

That she took her health and your health at put it at serious risk.

Not to anger you or hurt her further but I think until you can reach a healthy place in your mind you will always have these dark thoughts and lash out at your wife.

Let us know how the results fair.

I am saying a prayer just for you and your family.

Do your kids know of the affair?

HM


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## Larry2626

The kids don't know and maybe never will. At 10, 12, 14 & 16 they couldn't handle it, and it would destroy them. Hell, at 54, I can't even handle it


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## happyman64

Larry

You will learn to deal wit it. One way or another.

You have no choice.

Because if you do not make a conscious decision to deal with the affair and your emotions then the rest of your life will resemble the last 2 years.

Take one day at a time.

Get the results. Deal with it.

Then seek a professional counselor for both you and your wife and make a conscious decision to improve your life.

Not all woman are bad or cheaters. Your wife is not a bad person.

SHe just made a very bad series of choices. She owes you and herself the why.

It is up to you to decide if you can forgive her and continue to love her.

It is up to her to decide if she is worthy of your love & forgiveness.

It takes two Larry to figure this mess out and R. It only takes on to Divorce.

You have all the time in the world to heal, get to a happy place and decide your futures.

HM


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## RV9

Larry, take my request with a pinch of salt, wedge of lemon and a glass of vodka - 

Last 2 years, you have been in limbo. You have been unable to reconcile whom you married and who you are with now. She did what she had to, no going back, no undoing it. Now it's your decision that would determine the outcome. Leaving is hard. Staying is harder. 

Let staying or leaving be a business decision. It's loss vs gain. You have a remorseful wife. Most of the posters out here would give their right hand for a remorseful spouse. You have 4 children - all biologically yours. Many don't have that luxury. I'm not belittling you but simply stating what you have in your hands. Infidelity is unforgivable. At least for me. But being a part time dad and another man stepping into their lives isn't such a good option either. Nor is losing half of your assets in divorce. Money does matter. 

Get a good IC. It'll help you sort your head out. Try to understand if there is anything your wife can do to help relieve your agony. Get into MC as well when you can understand how to proceed. You've spend considerable time together with your wife. At least make an affort to keep the family together. In the end, you may not be able to stay with her. But she'll always be there in your life because you have had children with her. If not man and wife, prepare yourself to be cordial co-parents With her.


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## ConanHub

Kids are usually smarter than we give them credit for and they could deal with this.

Other than that, I am too disgusted and furious to offer much besides sorrow for you and your children.

I feel nothing positive for your wife.

I could not even bring myself to look at my wife again if she did to me what yours did to you.

Again, so sorry.....


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## barbados

Larry, 

Just curious as to why you two waited so long to have kids, then had 4 just about in a row ? Your first post says you were married at the time for 30 years and were 52, an the oldest was 14. So you were married at 22 but didn't start with kids till 38 ?


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## Larry2626

Married in 1984. I was 24; she was 22. Tried for many years to make babies, but it just didn't work. When we finally relaxed and all the pressure was off, the boy came in 1997. The girls came every two years after that.


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## LongWalk

Larry,

Her story about just having sex once is not very credible. I think that hurts your chances of reconciliation. It must bug you.

Nobody gets a burner phone to arrange seating at Dunkin Donuts.

I think the disease is a drag. I wonder if there is any lube that hinders the virus?


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## Healer

Larry2626 said:


> The stock market reference was many years ago, back in 2000. I was just using it as an example of how things can happen right in front of your eyes, without you even realizing its happening. This is not so much about money, as it is about emotions, fear, morals, etc. Cheaters will never read this; only those of us who have been burned will. If anything good comes out of my story, either it lets me vent so I don't explode, and let's you (hopefully) learn something from the hell that I've lived through for the past couple of years. If that's all that comes out of this, I guess that's a good thing. Ever read the kids story, "The Tenth Good Thing About Barney"? I won't spoil it, but it comes down to something good almost always comes from something bad. Last time I read that story, my wife and I were happily married.


I was in your situation (not the herpes - as far as I know, anyway). 2 kids, wife cheated with a low life. I came to realize life is not worth living if you're miserable - and boy, do you sound miserable to me. Now divorce is no picnic, and not being with your kids every day sucks. So does child support. And trying to find another "love". But you know what? I'm WAY happier than I was when I was trying to reconcile with my cheating wife. We're divorced now (as of a few days ago, actually). My relationship with my kids is better than before, I'm off anti-depressants (I was on them when with the ex) and I'm dating (when I feel like it).

Life is too short man. She stabbed you deeeeeeeep in the back and twisted the knife. And as far as I can tell, she's not really remorseful about it. Cheating and giving you an STD is not a "mistake". But I think you know that.

Do what's best for you my man. If you do that, you will also be honoring your children.

Good luck amigo.


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## Healer

terrence4159 said:


> im sorry for what you have went through but not talking to her now because she may have gave you herpes......man how old are you 6/7. i understand it sucks but you KNEW she had herpes when you started sleeping with her again after she cheated.
> 
> thats like going out buying a gun loading it and shooting yourself in the foot and then blaming the gun company. i understand not being over the betrayal and you will never totally get over it.
> 
> be mad at the cheating but not the maybe catching herpes cause you knew the risks you made that decision.


"man how old are you 6/7."

Wow. I think you're the one who needs to grow up, son.


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## Healer

Larry2626 said:


> Thanks for blaming me. I didn't ask for any of this. Unless you were in my shoes you have no idea how I feel right now. There are no instructions on how anyone individually deals with this. What she now may have given me is just the icing on the cake, and just re-opens some old wounds and memories I have been trying to put behind me. Sometimes I wish I was 6 or 7 again, so I could just close my eyes and make it all go away.


Anyone who blames you is talking out of their arse, so don't sweat it.


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## Larry2626

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there sure have been numerous ones since I started this discussion. I appreciate the different points of view, and the help and support I've received over the years. Truth is, I don't know the mindset or personal history of any of the folks here. Unless they've lived through this hell themselves, they are the only ones who can really appreciate what I'm going through. This is the best and only therapy I can hope for right now. I am thankful for that.


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## Larry2626

Thanks. That helps a lot.


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## happy as a clam

Larry,

I'm sorry for what you're going through. No one wants to end up with an STD, but I think her betrayal of your marriage is blowing this up in your mind to be much worse than it really is.

An estimated *90%* (stats from the CDC) of the population has some form of herpes (either Type 1 or Type 2). And yes, you CAN get either type in either place -- it's just more common for Type 1 to be oral and Type 2 to be on the genitals. But a woman who has Type 1 (cold sores) could perform oral sex on you and you could still end up with it on your genitals.

The CDC estimates that 45 million Americans have Type 2 herpes. So there's a good chance that someone you date in the future may already have it.

I'm sure none of this makes you feel much better, just trying to help put some perspective on this.

My best friend's husband has genital herpes. She confided in me when she was about to deliver her baby because the doctors had to take extra precautions to be sure she had no active outbreak (vaginal delivery). They have been married for 14 years and she has never contracted it. The whole "shedding" theory is controversial at best.


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## RV9

terrence4159 said:


> im sorry for what you have went through but not talking to her now because she may have gave you herpes......man how old are you 6/7. i understand it sucks but you KNEW she had herpes when you started sleeping with her again after she cheated.
> 
> thats like going out buying a gun loading it and shooting yourself in the foot and then blaming the gun company. i understand not being over the betrayal and you will never totally get over it.
> 
> be mad at the cheating but not the maybe catching herpes cause you knew the risks you made that decision.


Wow... This is helpful.


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## turnera

Yeah, what you really need right now is a good grief counselor. You haven't yet gone through your Stages of Grief.


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## Samus

Larry you got herpes. WHO cares. It's not the end of your life, you should of known when you made the decision to stay with your wife this is going to happen. Which husband has sex with a condom, you clearly knew that you were going to stop using the condoms, stop acting like you didn't know. Seriously you are acting like a big baby. 

When you decided to take the wife back and you forgave her you knew exactly what you were doing. 

You should of divorced and moved on if you were that concerned about the disease or the infidelity. Obviously you didn't care enough for either as you took your wife back, rug sweeping and didn't make her accountable for the affair. 

I don't know why you took your wife back because clearly in your comments the kids was not the reason, so what, YOU love her. That's the only reason? Anyway it is TOO late. Your stuck now with your wife and your herpes. Everyone here warned you and try to get you to listen to reason and you decide to do whatever you felt like and ignore everyone. I still don't understand why. Yeah divorce is the easy path (you said it) you should of did it. 

If you shoot yourself by accident you can't take it back man, deal with the consequences of your decisions. You shouldn't be mean to your wife now and treat her bad, she didn't do anything to you at this point. As far as you should be concerned you FORGAVE your wife and moved past it. 

This is why everyone told you to do numerous things before R, but you did not listen. So now deal with the bad decisions you made. UGH!!!

Seriously you should not be upset and just be happy. You have your wife and family together and she seems to be faithful at this point (we think, you think). So if that is the case, calm the phuk down and move on man, no reason to hash old crap up.


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## Larry2626

What do you know about this Samus? And who the hell are you to blame me for any part of this?
Also when you say "you should of did it", correct grammar is "you should have done it". Get a dictionary.....
I'm not stuck with anything I don't want to be stuck with, except for bad memories.
You have some questionable bedside manner man. Its not what you say, but how you say it. You sure picked the wrong way to say it, and to the wrong guy.
Seems like you're on her side defending her. She started this, and I'm the recipient. It all flows downhill. How I chose and choose to deal with it is my prerogative (SAT word), but don't reprimand me for my decisions. I appreciate the advice form everyone here, but it is varied and sometimes 180 degrees apart. Everyone has a different perception of what's right and wrong, and how to deal with things. I'm not complaining and I'm not an immature cry baby. Just dealing with the anger, distrust and reality as best I can.
Also I never forgave her, and maybe never will. I'm still trying to understand her. Understanding has to come before forgiveness.
And don't ever tell me to calm the phuk down. I'm pretty phukin' calm considering what I've gone through and am going through right now. And I'm not the one hashing old crap up. I'm only posting new events and answering questions to some folks here who actually give a crap about me.
But thanks anyway......


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## anchorwatch

Larry, 

It's an open web based forum. The only qualification you need to give advice is a connection to the web. Sometimes it can be helpful to use the ignore feature. For what it's worth, I think you're doing the well for what you're trying to accomplish, under the circumstances you've been dealt. Go ahead, vent...

Best


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## happy as a clam

Sorry to re-post... but Larry, did you read this post of mine (below) at all?!?! You're making a mountain out of a molehill. 90% of the population has some form of herpes (type 1 or type 2). Your wife may have ALREADY HAD IT and you never even knew! You're stressing out over it, yet you *HAVEN'T HAD ANY SYMPTOMS!!* Not a SINGLE one... That's how it spreads... No one knows they have it!! C'mon Larry...

You really need to educate yourself (away from the "scare" internet sites) on just how pervasive and insidious this disease is. Almost EVERYONE has some form or another of it. H*ll, you or your wife probably already had it and never even knew. 1 in 5 Americans has it (according to the CDC).

And forget the whole "shedding" theory. Anecdotally, most docs have PROVEN that the disease was contracted when someone was "symptomatic" but didn't realize it. You really are falling prey to scare-mongering. Ditch the internet and its outdated herpes information. As I pointed out in my previous thread, I think my friend would have gotten it through "shedding" after 14 years of marriage. It just doesn't happen that way.

If you're getting ready to have sex with someone, and they have WEEPING LESIONS (on their mouth or their genitals), you should probably postpone it. Otherwise, you're in the same boat as the rest of us -- you just "can't know." Stop dramatizing this. Jeez... it's not the end of the world. We're not talking AIDS or Ebola...



happy as a clam said:


> Larry,
> 
> I'm sorry for what you're going through. No one wants to end up with an STD, but I think her betrayal of your marriage is blowing this up in your mind to be much worse than it really is.
> 
> An estimated *90%* (stats from the CDC) of the population has some form of herpes (either Type 1 or Type 2). And yes, you CAN get either type in either place -- it's just more common for Type 1 to be oral and Type 2 to be on the genitals. But a woman who has Type 1 (cold sores) could perform oral sex on you and you could still end up with it on your genitals.
> 
> The CDC estimates that 45 million Americans have Type 2 herpes. So there's a good chance that someone you date in the future may already have it.
> 
> I'm sure none of this makes you feel much better, just trying to help put some perspective on this.
> 
> My best friend's husband has genital herpes. She confided in me when she was about to deliver her baby because the doctors had to take extra precautions to be sure she had no active outbreak (vaginal delivery). They have been married for 14 years and she has never contracted it. The whole "shedding" theory is controversial at best.


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## tom67

happy as a clam said:


> Sorry to re-post... but Larry, did you read this at all?!?! You're making a mountain out of a molehill. 90% of the population has some form of herpes (type 1 or type 2). Your wife may have ALREADY HAD IT and you never even knew! You're stressing out over it, yet you *HAVEN'T HAD ANY SYMPTOMS!!* Not a SINGLE one... That's how it spreads... No one knows they have it!! C'mon Larry...


Note to self...
Do not p!ss off happy as a clam.
But Larry try some raw foods, well just eat right and take probiotics.
Work out at least 3 days a week.
Limit alcohol.


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## happy as a clam

tom67 said:


> Note to self...
> Do not p!ss off happy as a clam.


You KNOW it Tom!!! :rofl:










Honestly, all the rest of your advice was EXCELLENT!!


Probiotics
Healthy diet
Work Out
Limit Alcohol

Your 'da Man!!!


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## TurtleRun

Larry2626 said:


> What do you know about this Samus? And who the hell are you to blame me for any part of this?
> Also when you say "you should of did it", correct grammar is "you should have done it". Get a dictionary.....
> I'm not stuck with anything I don't want to be stuck with, except for bad memories.
> You have some questionable bedside manner man. Its not what you say, but how you say it. You sure picked the wrong way to say it, and to the wrong guy.
> Seems like you're on her side defending her. She started this, and I'm the recipient. It all flows downhill. How I chose and choose to deal with it is my prerogative (SAT word), but don't reprimand me for my decisions. I appreciate the advice form everyone here, but it is varied and sometimes 180 degrees apart. Everyone has a different perception of what's right and wrong, and how to deal with things. I'm not complaining and I'm not an immature cry baby. Just dealing with the anger, distrust and reality as best I can.
> Also I never forgave her, and maybe never will. I'm still trying to understand her. Understanding has to come before forgiveness.
> And don't ever tell me to calm the phuk down. I'm pretty phukin' calm considering what I've gone through and am going through right now. And I'm not the one hashing old crap up. I'm only posting new events and answering questions to some folks here who actually give a crap about me.
> But thanks anyway......


Don't be mad. I think what he said is the truth. He could have said it nicer though. It is not your fault she cheated ect. but you knowingly had unprotected sex with her and you know she has herpes. That is on you.  You can't blame her for your actions also.


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## turnera

I've had herpes since I was 18. Aside from a couple of outbreaks in my early 20s, you'd never even know I had it.


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## tom67

happy as a clam said:


> You KNOW it Tom!!! :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, all the rest of your advice was EXCELLENT!!
> 
> 
> Probiotics
> Healthy diet
> Work Out
> Limit Alcohol
> 
> Your 'da Man!!!



Plus you'll run me over with your bike and make me like it.:whip::whip:


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## tom67

Larry on a serious note look up about keeping alkaline levels in your body at a certain level.
We all have cancer cells within us it takes a certain "enviroment" for them to wake up.
Just look into it.


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## BrockLanders

Can we all also acknowledge that female to male HIV transmission is more rare than being struck by lightening? It's crazy that in 2014 we're still reacting like it's 1985.


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## happy as a clam

tom67 said:


> Plus you'll run me over with your bike and make me like it.:whip::whip:


You KNOW it Tom!!!!!


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## happy as a clam

turnera said:


> I've had herpes since I was 18. Aside from a couple of outbreaks in my early 20s, you'd never even know I had it.


Kudos to you turnera for your honesty! :smthumbup:

Practically everyone I know has herpes in one form or another. I dated two men (LTRs) with herpes, never contracted it. Gone are the days of the BIG, DREADED "DISCUSSION" :

"There's something I must TELL you. *I have HERPES."* 
*Gasp* *Silence* 
"Oh... so do I! And so does everyone ELSE I know!!"

I'm getting a little irritated with all the hysteria surrounding this EXTREMELY common virus.


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## tom67

BrockLanders said:


> Can we all also acknowledge that female to male HIV transmission is more rare than being struck by lightening? It's crazy that in 2014 we're still reacting like it's 1985.


Oh God 1985 senior year in HS

Tears For Fears - "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" - ORIGINAL VIDEO - YouTube


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## turnera

happy as a clam said:


> Kudos to you turnera for your honesty!


Yeah, thanks to my cheating ex-fiance. 

But my H of 35 years has never had an outbreak.

fwiw, my DD24's boyfriend has had a mouth sore for the past 2 weeks, and she and he and his doctor had a discussion - basically, everyone in America who's ever had a cold sore has herpes.


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## happy as a clam

turnera said:


> ...basically, everyone in America who's ever had a cold sore has herpes.


Yep, most people get Type 1 herpes as an infant or a child (usually from adults kissing them). Everyone's immune systems are different, so some people fight it off better and don't have recurring cold sores on their lips. But they still HAVE it.

So Larry, practically ANY woman you are with could give you herpes, whether it's through kissing your lips or kissing you "elsewhere." While type 2 isn't quite as prevalent as type 1, it's still a 1-in-5 statistic. That's a lot of people. And many people never have outbreaks at all.


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## LongWalk

I used to have cold sores years ago. They only occur is I am really run down.

There are lubes that are not a guarantee but may reduce transmission. Here is one company.


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## turnera

LongWalk said:


> I used to have cold sores years ago. They only occur is I am really run down.
> 
> There are lubes that are not a guarantee but may reduce transmission. Here is one company.


Exactly. That's how my DD24 got shingles last year.


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## Forest

LongWalk said:


> I used to have cold sores years ago. They only occur is I am really run down.
> 
> There are lubes that are not a guarantee but may reduce transmission. Here is one company.


Can't resist adding this. I've had this problem since I was a kid. About 25 years ago someone told me to take lysine to prevent outbreaks. I did, with great results. I usually take a lysine pill every day or two; as long as I remember, I'm fine.

There have been times I've forgotten for extended periods, due to change in schedule, etc. I've had a few outbreaks then.

This doesn't work with everyone, and the literature is divided on the subject. I'm talked with my doctor, who has heard the same story from so many patients, he feels that it probably works with about half the population. Worth a try.


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## turnera

That's what the pharmacist told my DD24 to use for her shingles, and it worked like a charm. A $5 bottle of pills was all she needed, after a doctor misdiagnosed her and wasted time and money on antibiotics.

My husband used to get cold sores all the time. Then he stopped drinking Dr. Pepper, and he hasn't had any since. My mom, a nurse, verified that the acid in soft drinks often creates cold sores.


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## Samus

Larry sorry to come across hard on you. But given 2 years have passed and you moved on rather quickly to rekindle your relationship with your wife I took that as some sort of forgiveness and acceptance that she has an STD.

Larry, I have Herpes and so does my wife. She gave it to me, but let me tell you a little thing about the disease from someone who has it. I had unprotected sex with my wife for over 3-4 years without contracting the disease. I knew she had the disease after 2 years of being with her and she telling me she had it, but I already fell in love with her and didn't want to leave her. 

She got it from her Ex-Boyfriend who never told her. My example above is to show you it is rather very hard to contract an STD just by 10 second penetration, never mind shedding, etc....

I made the conscious decision to continue my relationship, because like you I love my girl and didn't want to leave her over herpes, which like a lot of folks have said is a non-life threatening disease and just an annoyance when you get a breakout. Yes there is that REMOTE chance you can die from it if you get something in your brain, but that is rarer then Ebola. 

If my wife cheated on me I would leave her, because I don't have the strength or the will power to stick around and ya know, I wouldn't mind having some new putang <wink>, but I love my wife and I will keep on as long as we are both faithful.


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## Larry2626

Apology accepted. Only thing is, my wife got Herpes from screwing another guy while being married to me, not from an ex-boyfriend. Yeah, I took the risk and now I might have it too. By being intimate with her several months after she told me, I was trying to get things back together and back to as normal as possible. Don't confuse forgiveness with trying to reconcile. Won't know for sure for another week or two until the test comes back whether I have it or not. Irrespective of that, it makes it much harder to accept that I might have HSV2 from my wife's affair, as opposed to a prior legitimate relationship.
As far as having the strength or willpower to stay around, that's exactly what I'm going through now. I stuck around for about 2 years, and thought we were making some progress. My positive HSV2 results a couple of weeks ago set me back a ways, and has un-done many months of self-healing. I hope you can understand that our situations are very different, but I do appreciate your apology and candor. Maybe my possibly having HSV2 is not the main thing pissing me off. Maybe its what events transpired to my eventually getting it.


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## bandit.45

I think most of us understand your pain Larry. Don't think we don't. 

I personally don't believe your wife is a bad person, nor is she the worst cheater we have seen here on TAM. Far from it. What sets your fWW apart is that she slept with a diseased scumbag. She had no way of knowing. That doesn't absolve her of responsibility, but does it make her worse than the average ONS cheater? I don't think so. 

At least she has shown remorse and disgust in herself. We have several BSs on here who's spouses show no remorse or care at all.


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## Larry2626

I think after all is said and done, based on the time we have invested in each other and the advice of many of you here, that I'm really going to try and reconcile things with her and try to make a new life together. Knowing what I've got now is a lot less scary than what I don't have out in the world. What you said is what I feel. She's not a bad person, she's a good mother, has been a good wife, but she made a GIGANTIC mistake. I've made mistakes in my life (none like this) but she never kicked me out or left me for them. I think if I'm more understanding, and stop re-hashing this with her, and she has an understanding of my expectations, we can make this work. I think I just need more time to get this out of my head, or at least find a place in my head I can store this away without constantly thinking about it.


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## Thor

Sorry if this has been covered already, but I can't keep track of all the details in all the different threads.

Have you and she been to good MC? Good IC? Have you read books about R?

You have been traumatized and need certain things in order to heal. She is a necessary part of that healing. If you are both genuinely wanting to R for a great new marriage, you have to do those important steps in the process. So you either need guidance from a good MC or you need to use a good book for guidance.

IC is for you and her to process those individual issues which aren't necessarily the realm of MC. You might be able to cover those items in MC, but maybe not.


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## sammy3

Larry, 

I read something the other day and thought of you. It was, "Sometimes when couples have tried everything they can to move on and nothing seems to work, is when they finally forgive, because there is nothing else left to do."

~sammy


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## Larry2626

Great news! The Western Blot HSV-2 test came back yesterday-NEGATIVE for HSV-2. Lab says this is the definitive test, and confirms (at least) that I did not have HSV-2 for 12-15 weeks prior to the test. The IGG HerpeSelect test was indeed a false positive and no need to get re-tested again. The Western Blot test tests for 14 antibodies and is personally reviewed by 3 physicians on site that must concur on the results. The IGG test tests for one antibody, and is done like a litmus test, looking at colors on a strip of paper. I am happy. Where do I go from here? Don't know at this moment...letting some good news sink in for a while.


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## ThePheonix

Larry, I hate to put it quite like this but it you keep dipping you wick into polluted water, what do you thinks going to happen?


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## Thinkitthrough

Larry
Sir: While my situation is unlike yours it bears the similarity of a spouse who has done something that to most on TAM is unforgivable. I am 60, have been married for 40 years and while my wife cheated 2010/2011 I only found out this August, and while I am not yet decided, I find the path you are on most similar to my own. Don't know what will become of us, but I thank you for the encouragement to get through today and perhaps the next.


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## IIJokerII

Larry2626 said:


> letting some good news sink in for a while.


Awesome, now don't let your Throbbing Pork Sword sink into the river Styx without a sheath, or at all.


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