# Ok, here is my story.



## jerry123

I'm a 44 Y/O stay at home dad for the last 8 years. My wife of 14 years works full time and has a high position there. Generally i never though my wife would cheat since we have had a great marriage. Then, last june/July we have been good friends with a couple 4 houses down. The couple is married with 2 kids like us. Well the husband is that type of guy who is 40 but acts 18. He likes to throw out sex talk when we are around. 
And he sees that it made my wife laugh a few times. Well now i will get to the part that makes you go "HMM". In October last year This guy came by on his tractor with some wood for us in tow. He dumped it in a pile about 30 yards from where my wife was getting groceries out of car and drove back to her car while i stacked the wood. I came walking up to them but they did not really see me coming and they both stopped talking right away. He helped bring groceries in and left. I noticed she changed her persona and was all of a sudden really happy minded and was talking alot to me and kids about just things in general for the next 20-30 minutes.
So for the next 2-3 weeks this guy tells his friends/us/his wife that he started working out and wants to get into shape.
So i needed my wife to drive me somewhere one morning and she stood at the kids bus stop and i stayed in car and she waited 10 feet from car for bus. Well here comes this guy who drops his kid off at same bus stop. Walks up and said quietly "where's your husband". She says, "he is right there in the car". Shocked a bit he comes over and shakes my hand and says whats up Jerry. Then i can notice her just turn away and stay quiet.
Then a few weeks later she wanted to go out shopping and was gone for like 3 hours. Of course she came home with stuff but looked weird that 3 hours for 3-4 bags was strange. Then as soon as she got home (i mean within 2 minutes) this guy calls my cell phone and starts an idle conversation. something about how to cook some meal. 
Then, we are getting close to christmas now and my wife and i are buying alcohol for parties and she sees this Patron gift pack. She says "Hmm, this would make a great gift for someone" does not say a name but i could tell she wanted me to say this guy. Because he likes Patron. But she would not say his name, i could so tell she wanted me to come out with it. I did not and she put it down and we moved on.
Well, i started putting a GPS tracking device in her car because i have not confronted her about my suspicions until i have proof.

So, should i ask her about or just wait to have proof? If i ask her she may try and be more careful and that would make it harder to track her.

BTW, our sex life has not changed much. for the most part we have sex 1-2 times a week. She is fit and has been all her life so it's not like she is trying to lose weight all of a sudden. But, around the time i thought she was doing stuff with him last year she wanted to have sex in morning a few times which we have not done in 12 years. Also noticed she would be a ***** to me for no reason for 2-3 days on end then would be fine for weeks.
All help is appreciated...


----------



## Thorburn

Your gut is telling you that there is something follow it.

My wife was having sex with the OM and a few hours having sex with me. Once she reached over in bed grabbed me down there and said, something like, hey you are hard, give it to me while you can. She has never done that before. So, yea, the posibility that your wife is still arosed after having sex with the OM is real. But it may be nothing.

Do you have access to her phone logs?

Do you have access to her computer?

Are you two an open book with passwords?

I would also put a VAR in her car. Cheaters like to talk in their cars.

Signs are there but be careful. There may be nothing.


----------



## DanF

Definitely some signs, but make sure before you confront her. If all you have is suspicion, she will go underground and get better at covering her tracks.


----------



## Antigen

Long time lurker first post, it resonates with me.

She's cheating for sure, question is if you would forgive her for it?

If not, then do what you gotta do.

If so get irrefutable proof and then confront but not until then.

I gave my wife too many chances I'd never do it again. 

The cheating tells you the type of person you really married and that never changes.


----------



## jerry123

yeah, there is this ball point pen video/audio recorder i can buy. 
And no, she has a blackberry for work and keeps it on lock. But ive noticed if she checks her emails and walks away i have a minute or 2 before it goes in to lock mode. I've been checking it the last few weeks this way. Looked for this guys phone number on her contact list but its not there. Want to check texts but don't know how to on blackberry...


----------



## warlock07

Have you checked the cell records? If they are cheating ,they are being very careful. the pen audio recorder won't work(Since it will be in the bag)

I would suggest throwing them a bait(a few times if you have) Leave your house and say you are going to meet a friend of yours next town and you will be gone for 5 -6 hrs. See if this works. Check your bank/credit card statements for any unusual bills. If she uses a computer, check her history.


----------



## Toffer

Listen to Thor!

Put a keylogger on the home PC too!

Be patient. Gather evidence


----------



## warlock07

I don't think keylogger will work here. Since they are neighbors, I think the communication will be in person.


----------



## bryanp

It looks bad. Usually your gut is not wrong. What are you going to do when you catch her? The guy sounds like a slime. I am afraid she may be putting you at risk for STD's.


----------



## jerry123

She never uses our computer...Just her blackberry alot. Does anyone know how to check texts on Blackberry?

I so want to confront her, and look for signals of lying. of course she will say no, i just know she will. If i find out it's true i can't live near this guy and i probably would not stay with her.


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> Have you checked the cell records? If they are cheating ,they are being very careful. the pen audio recorder won't work(Since it will be in the bag)
> 
> I would suggest throwing them a bait(a few times if you have) Leave your house and say you are going to meet a friend of yours next town and you will be gone for 5 -6 hrs. See if this works. Check your bank/credit card statements for any unusual bills. If she uses a computer, check her history.



Can't check her work blackberry cell records...but thanks for advice. Can't leave for 5-6 hours since our kids are 4-9 and someone would have to watch them.


----------



## keko

There definately some red flags, but if you confront with what little know they will deny and go further underground. 

Place a VAR(Voice activated recorder) in her car.

Do you ever leave the house? If you do I would definately place a few hidden camera's around and in the house. Considering he is your neighbor, it's likely upon you leaving something will happen in your house.


----------



## keko

Google her version of blackberry for how to retrieve deleted text's.


----------



## tacoma

Good move on the GPS.

Follow up with a car VAR,Key Logger, & since he`s a neighbor put a couple more VARs around your house.

Check cell records and any e-mail accounts you can get access to.

Check her phone for texts, call logs.

Give it a week and see what you find.


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> There definately some red flags, but if you confront with what little know they will deny and go further underground.
> 
> Place a VAR(Voice activated recorder) in her car.
> 
> Do you ever leave the house? If you do I would definately place a few hidden camera's around and in the house. Considering he is your neighbor, it's likely upon you leaving something will happen in your house.


Being a stay at home dad and she is a work all day i never leave house while she is home. And if i do she has to watch my kids. I'm just trying to figure out where they would do stuff, obviously the answer would be a car. GPS i put in her car has only been there 6 days so i still have to gather more evidence.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> Being a stay at home dad and she is a work all day i never leave house while she is home. And if i do she has to watch my kids. I'm just trying to figure out where they would do stuff, obviously the answer would be a car. GPS i put in her car has only been there 6 days so i still have to gather more evidence.


In that case they'll do it before coming home, during lunch or after work. Definately don't waste anymore time and place a VAR in her car. Are you able to monitor her location via GPS real time or do you have to bring back the GPS and load the data?


----------



## crossbar

Get a Voice Activated Recorder and some heavy duty velcro from the hardware store. Place the VAR under her carseat and secure it with the velcro. 

Chances are she's on the phone with him first thing in the morning in her car. You might catch her side of the conversations.


----------



## PHTlump

If you didn't find this guy's name in her contact list, she may have programmed her number as her mother, sister, friend, etc. That way, if you see a text from her mother, you won't be suspicious.

Go back through her contacts list and look at each one individually to find his number.


----------



## the guy

Gather the evidence then confront, it will be more effective when you have no doubt what she is doing. Don't reveal your source's but go in to the confrontation knowing damb well what you are talking about, She can lie all she wants but you will know damb well the what you have is worth a drip to the lawyers office and worth exposing this to OMW.

In fact expose to OMW 1st and tell her you have proof, but again don't reveal your source.

Just remember to not reveal you source's, she will know you know by how confident you are handleing it. It won't be a matter of "are you....." but it will be more like "you did this and that on this day and you continue to do this"....... even then it may be best to be more vage.

She knows she's doing you wrong, you don't really have to be specific, just the confident tune and the willing ness to ask her to leave when she continues to try to deciet you will show how confident you really are in what you are accusing her of.

Make sence?


----------



## Shaggy

One trick to see if a number is in the phone is to dial it from the phone. If its in there it will display the saved name when it dials.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Yes, GPS is real time. I track her from my iPhone. It's updates every minute. I will def get a VAR and Velcro. I know it's only been 6 days with GPS. I will be more patient and I'm sure they will screw up sooner or later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Great advice so far everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

Shaggy said:


> One trick to see if a number is in the phone is to dial it from the phone. If its in there it will display the saved name when it dials.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's a good idea. The OP could claim his battery is dead. Also, if the OM answers with some variant of, "I want to lick X off of your Y," then you've got some pretty good evidence right there.


----------



## Gabriel

Jerry, be patient here. While it does seem you have the right to be suspicious, there are no flaming red flags yet. It could be nothing. The VAR is a good idea. 

Another possible idea is to casually say something to his wife. Something in a joking tone, like, "well it looks like our spouses are turning into new best friends or something..." She may be getting suspicious too and this could open the door to getting her thoughts.


----------



## Gabriel

Further to my first post - another variation (if you really get the impression she is for sure up to no good), is to tell his wife exactly what you witnessed. Believe me, her ears will perk up big time, and two investigators are defintely better than one.

If you go this route, you have to have a pact with her that neither says anything to their spouse until sufficient evidence is gathered. She could really be your ally here - just be careful. Some of this depends on how comfortable you are talking with his wife. Is she a stay-at-home mom? If so, there would be time to talk to her about this while your W and her H are at work.


----------



## keko

Gabriel said:


> Further to my first post - another variation (if you really get the impression she is for sure up to no good), is to tell his wife exactly what you witnessed. Believe me, her ears will perk up big time, and two investigators are defintely better than one.
> 
> If you go this route, you have to have a pact with her that neither says anything to their spouse until sufficient evidence is gathered. She could really be your ally here - just be careful. Some of this depends on how comfortable you are talking with his wife. Is she a stay-at-home mom? If so, there would be time to talk to her about this while your W and her H are at work.


One risk from this is what if she isn't very bright and confront's the OM right away? Telling him OP told her so. 

I think dropping a few hinting sentence's might be better as in your first post.


----------



## warlock07

Your wife, if she is in an affair, will do it when you are at home taking care of kids. She can plan it well enough not to be doubtful. You need to somehow remove yourself and the kids from the equation to bait them. See if you can do that.


----------



## Gabriel

keko said:


> One risk from this is what if she isn't very bright and confront's the OM right away? Telling him OP told her so.
> 
> I think dropping a few hinting sentence's might be better as in your first post.


Yes, agree. That is the better approach. I was entertaining this 2nd one - only if he was VERY sure.


----------



## cledus_snow

stay frosty, my friend.....something is amiss here.

this guy is definetly coming after your wife. you need to set some bounderies with him. let him know just because you're a SAHD, you won't be trampled on by another suitor.


----------



## slater

jerry- feel your pain. Successful wife, etc, etc. I had the same blackberry issue as you, work phone, locked. I did the same, waited til she looked at it then went to shower or whatever.

there are 2 ways for them to message, sms text messages and blackberry chat (I thin its called messenger)) Most likely if he has a blackberry they are using the chat form. If he does not have a blackberry they are using regular texts. My wife was smart enough to delete all her chats, but try to open that up. You use the track ball to drive around. One idea, is tell your kid mommy has a cool game on her phone (brick breaker) and see if she will give them the password. my 8 yr old knew my wife's pass and told me. Or try to leave your phone behind one day and pick hers up and straight up ask her what the pass is so you can make a call.

It doesn't sound good, but get evidence. The VAR and velcro got me evidence in 2 days. Sorry you are here.


----------



## jnj express

Does she/he normally take kids to school bus stop---If they do, you might think of some way, to try and see how long they talk, and possibly try to find out what they say, you might some how try to follow her over there, and see what goes on

Have a little neighborhood party---invite her lover, and his wife---see what the dynamics of the party are----is there flirting, do they try and get time together, do they go off on their own------make it an innocent type situation, but you might get some answers, specially where alcohol will come into play, and inhibitions will be lowered

Do not think of any type of confrontation, till you have solid evidence, that is printed out, or recorded

Just bide your time, and become a super sleuth.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Keep a record (journal?) of where she says she is in. Compare it with GPS info.

I heard that it is possible to listen in to the cell phone calls. Try that route. That will hit the nail in the head.

There are cell phone call recording apps. You can record the dialogues.

Act normal, if not nicer.

Stay alert.


----------



## OldWolf57

if it was me, the next time everyone was together, I would tell him I noticed he seemed to be paying a lil too much attention to my wife, and to keep from having any misunderstanding, he should look at her as he would his mother. and since he seem to be the joking type, repeat to everyone what you wrote here. Be firm be assertive. And if your wife gives you any guff, just tell her you saw his reaction when he quietly asked where you were at the bus stop. and their reaction when you walked up when he came over with the wood. let her know YOU ARE NOT F/ing around


----------



## jerry123

Thanks guys...i am heading to best buy/walmart to get a VAR. The only time they could possibly talk is when she drives to work or drives home.
I was thinking of talking to his wife but i will only do that if i have proof. She may flip out and ask him if i say something...


----------



## Subi

jerry i do feel yo pain. As a woman i feel disgusted each time a wife cheats. There is definately a role reversal here being that she goes to work and you stay home. She probably thinks she is gonna grow a penis one day. However what are you going to do? She is cheating of course. Once you have gathered all the evidence you might want to think of what you want to do before you confront her. Also if you want to save yo marriage you might want to consider relocating elsewhere. Also i dont think it a good idea that you involve his wife coz you never know how she will react to it. Keep us posted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> Thanks guys...i am heading to best buy/walmart to get a VAR. The only time they could possibly talk is when she drives to work or drives home.
> I was thinking of talking to his wife but i will only do that if i have proof. She may flip out and ask him if i say something...


Make sure to buy velcro as well, and attach it firmly under her seat.


----------



## river rat

Jerry, your gut is telling you something, but it may not be exactly what you fear. Sure sounds like this jerk is coming on to your wife, but there may be nothing going on-yet. And, she may have strong enough boundaries that nothing could happen. Your story would indicate that you have doubts about that. Has she given you cause to doubt in the past? In any event, when a spouse arrives at the point where you are, there are problems in the relationship. Let's hope you find nothing between them. In that case it's time for you to address the relationship.


----------



## PHTlump

I suggest that you give your investigation a time limit. Say, three or four days with the VAR in the car. If you don't have positive proof of an affair by then, then assume that they aren't having sex, but they are still being inappropriate. And then you confront your wife with your worries. You absolutely should be jealous and stand up for your marriage. She may say that you're ridiculous. She may even believe it. But it may give her enough reason to stop the flirting.

If the current situation is only flirting and no affair, and you leave it alone, you're running the risk of an affair developing while you watch.


----------



## jerry123

Last year i did say to her..."has this guy ever came on to you, because he seems to talk about sex while you are around." She looked down to the ground and squished her lips together and shook her head and said no...then changed the subject. Well after that he seemed to not talk about sex around us. Sooo, that led me to believe she may have told him i ask her....you see what i am getting at.


----------



## Shaggy

jerry123 said:


> Last year i did say to her..."has this guy ever came on to you, because he seems to talk about sex while you are around." She looked down to the ground and squished her lips together and shook her head and said no...then changed the subject. Well after that he seemed to not talk about sex around us. Sooo, that led me to believe she may have told him i ask her....you see what i am getting at.


I sounds like she is having private conversations with him, at a level of intimacy where she can tell him about changing his behavior. She's also doing this behind you back, which even if they aren't cheating is wrong.

This guy and her have gotten way too private and cozy. I'm sorry, but it really sounds like something is going on here.


----------



## PHTlump

jerry123 said:


> Last year i did say to her..."has this guy ever came on to you, because he seems to talk about sex while you are around." She looked down to the ground and squished her lips together and shook her head and said no...then changed the subject. Well after that he seemed to not talk about sex around us. Sooo, that led me to believe she may have told him i ask her....you see what i am getting at.


Assuming sex is not happening, then you effectively c0ckblocked this guy last year. But, he didn't take the hint. Your next step is to communicate to your wife that she will be risking everything she has by cheating. And, to communicate to the OM that you're onto him, and end contact. If this has been a long term problem, then it's time to cut him out of your life, and your wife's life.

Good luck.


----------



## PHTlump

canuckprincess said:


> If she is in fact having an affair why would she stop just to save the marriage? If the marriage mattered she wouldn't be cheating on you.


You're describing an exit affair. The disloyal spouse finds an affair partner preferable to the loyal spouse, then has the affair until discovered. At that point, the disloyal spouse chooses to continue the relationship with the affair partner. Exit affairs aren't very common. In this case, since the AP is also married, both people would have to be having exit affairs. In cases like this, at least one of the disloyal spouses will likely choose his/her marriage over the affair.



canuckprincess said:


> It's not up to you to tell his wife, you need to deal with your marriage and not the OMs. If you tell his wife she may throw him out and if she does where do you think he'll go, yup right to your wife. So consider every angle before making your move. Good luck!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First, telling the OM's wife is the moral thing to do. If I saw a person blindly walking toward a cliff, I would try to alert the person to the danger he was in. It's the decent thing to do.

Second, ending the affair from the other relationship is often a very effective strategy. The OP can do a certain amount of monitoring his wife. But he can't monitor the OM at all. The OM's wife can. She may find something he can't. And vice versa.


----------



## Toffer

Definitely remove kids and yourself from the equation.

Is there someone you could arange to leave the kids with (like a grand parent or aunt/uncle) and tell her you're doing that and then going to X town to meet with your friend for 5 or 6 hours and you'll call from aunt/uncle house when you're picking kids up? That way she'll think she has a warning call coming before you head home!


----------



## keko

PHTlump said:


> Second, ending the affair from the other relationship is often a very effective strategy. The OP can do a certain amount of monitoring his wife. But he can't monitor the OM at all. The OM's wife can. She may find something he can't. And vice versa.


Although there are a few red flag's, OP doesn't have any hard evidence proving an affair. Letting the OMW know too immaturely might force an affair to go deeper underground.


----------



## jerry123

Yup, keeping it to myself until i have good evidence. Getting a VAR today. Got the velcro at walmart, they only had 1 type of sony VAR there and i think best buy will have better choices.
Thanks all, with GPS and VAR i should find out something. Funny thing is, tomorrow she has to travel 2 1/2 hours for work related stuff. She told me where she is going and i will have the GPS and VAR going all day in her car.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> Yup, keeping it to myself until i have good evidence. Getting a VAR today. Got the velcro at walmart, they only had 1 type of sony VAR there and i think best buy will have better choices.
> Thanks all, with GPS and VAR i should find out something. Funny thing is, tomorrow she has to travel 2 1/2 hours for work related stuff. She told me where she is going and i will have the GPS and VAR going all day in her car.


Is the OM work steady 9-5 job or does he have more free time?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Is the OM work steady 9-5 job or does he have more free time?



He has changing hours because of his job. Which of course makes it harder for me to see if he is at work or not.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> He has changing hours because of his job. Which of course makes it harder for me to see if he is at work or not.


Don't be surprised if your wife goes to a motel at that time period. Do you have an extra car that you can confront her incase she ends up there?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Don't be surprised if your wife goes to a motel at that time period. Do you have an extra car that you can confront her incase she ends up there?


Oh yes, it will be an interesting day tomorrow. With the GPS and VAR i will no doubt find something.
I will have a full tank of gas and will even have something set up to bring my daughter to a relatives house.


----------



## PHTlump

keko said:


> Although there are a few red flag's, OP doesn't have any hard evidence proving an affair. Letting the OMW know too immaturely might force an affair to go deeper underground.


That's true. The post that I responded to had explicitly assumed an affair was ongoing. In that case, exposing to the OMW can often help end the affair.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> Oh yes, it will be an interesting day tomorrow. With the GPS and VAR i will no doubt find something.
> I will have a full tank of gas and will even have something set up to bring my daughter to a relatives house.


Just to remind you, I hope it wont happen but incase it did. Stay far away from getting physical. Not only will you get some serious time behind bars, you also will lose most of your child custody rights. Taking their pictures and/or videos in the act is the hassle free way to expose them. Once again I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Just to remind you, I hope it wont happen but incase it did. Stay far away from getting physical. Not only will you get some serious time behind bars, you also will lose most of your child custody rights. Taking their pictures and/or videos in the act is the hassle free way to expose them. Once again I hope I'm wrong.


Thanks, i hear ya. If it is happening his wife will be the first to know because i will tell her. She will leave his butt so fast and he will lose his wife, 2 kids, his house...so that's what i will be looking forward to. In my case, i will just have to deal with it in my own way.


----------



## jerry123

canuckprincess said:


> What would make you think she'd leave him. And are you so depended on your wife that you have to stay?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is a stay at home mom, i've had coffee with her in the past and just know she is the type of person who would not stay. She would get everything and alimoni, the house, child support and she could go back to work since both her kids would be in school all day.


----------



## Gabriel

I hope you find nothing, Jerry, I really do. Good luck.

Don't make any assumptions. Just gather data. She may be pulling the wool over your eyes, or she may not.


----------



## the guy

Jerry,

It sound like you have a commited plan on gathering evidence, my question is confronting?

Great idea that OMW is the 1st to know, that takes care of that part of exposure, there may or may not be any more need to expose this to family and friend, that will all depend on if WW continues affair, especially if they go deeper underground and you find out. So with exposure it's steps that you will need to take depending on how your WW makes her choices.

So, lets move on to confronting, thats almost as painful as gathering the proof. Just like when you actually see for your self you want to explode, you will start shaking and the stomach will twist, but you must stay in control.Be prepared.
Confronting your wife will she denies and swears on her children that she is not having an affair will be just as painfull when you know damb well she is lying straight to your face. So be prpared.

No matter what the OM says or what the WW offers you, you may brother, will have the proof that makes anything they say void. The information you have is the power and you will have the upper hand.

So plan out your confrontation, stay strong, you are in a battle and now is not the time to do something weak that will effect the out come that you want.

Make a plan and work the plan.

When you do confront, remember do not let your WW validate her current choice to step out of the M by being a raging made man, or controling nut.

Instead be something she isn't expecting, be a man that will not beg for his marriage , a man that will not tolorate it, and a man that is confident enough to give up his marriage if she continues. If she continues to deny, ask her to leave. If she admits, then smile, ask her if she want to stay married.

Assume the worst and you see/catch something so awfull it is pure evil, this will prepare you, imagin catching them maked in the back seat of a car, do you still want to work it out? 

I don't want to be mean but help you except a reality that you may hear or see in the near future and prepare you for the worst so you can take the next step in all of this and that is moving on with or with out your WW.

I get it your a SAHD, but don't be scared, thats is the worst thing for you, the more conffident you percieve your self the more scared she will be.


----------



## the guy

Sorry for the noval


----------



## DanF

Shaggy said:


> I sounds like she is having private conversations with him, at a level of intimacy where she can tell him about changing his behavior. She's also doing this behind you back, which even if they aren't cheating is wrong.
> 
> This guy and her have gotten way too private and cozy. I'm sorry, but it really sounds like something is going on here.


Sexual conversations about my marriage are what started my affair.

I was talking to a friend (my wife's friend) and we got pretty close. I began talking to her about my marriage to "get a girl's point of view". Therefore she knew all of my concerns and got it from my wife's side because they were friends.
When it came time to ramp it up, she knew exactly what I needed.

You need to stop this.


----------



## the guy

Whats scary is this has been going on for a year, there may be an unbreakable bond that has been created in fantasyland.

Stopping the A, well it may be easier said then done, but tolorating the A....thats what he does have control over, and protecting him self from furture emotional torture by finally confronting his WW.


----------



## jerry123

the guy said:


> Jerry,
> 
> It sound like you have a commited plan on gathering evidence, my question is confronting?
> 
> Great idea that OMW is the 1st to know, that takes care of that part of exposure, there may or may not be any more need to expose this to family and friend, that will all depend on if WW continues affair, especially if they go deeper underground and you find out. So with exposure it's steps that you will need to take depending on how your WW makes her choices.
> 
> So, lets move on to confronting, thats almost as painful as gathering the proof. Just like when you actually see for your self you want to explode, you will start shaking and the stomach will twist, but you must stay in control.Be prepared.
> Confronting your wife will she denies and swears on her children that she is not having an affair will be just as painfull when you know damb well she is lying straight to your face. So be prpared.
> 
> No matter what the OM says or what the WW offers you, you may brother, will have the proof that makes anything they say void. The information you have is the power and you will have the upper hand.
> 
> So plan out your confrontation, stay strong, you are in a battle and now is not the time to do something weak that will effect the out come that you want.
> 
> Make a plan and work the plan.
> 
> When you do confront, remember do not let your WW validate her current choice to step out of the M by being a raging made man, or controling nut.
> 
> Instead be something she isn't expecting, be a man that will not beg for his marriage , a man that will not tolorate it, and a man that is confident enough to give up his marriage if she continues. If she continues to deny, ask her to leave. If she admits, then smile, ask her if she want to stay married.
> 
> Assume the worst and you see/catch something so awfull it is pure evil, this will prepare you, imagin catching them maked in the back seat of a car, do you still want to work it out?
> 
> I don't want to be mean but help you except a reality that you may hear or see in the near future and prepare you for the worst so you can take the next step in all of this and that is moving on with or with out your WW.
> 
> I get it your a SAHD, but don't be scared, thats is the worst thing for you, the more conffident you percieve your self the more scared she will be.


Oh yes, no problem for the novel. I am prepared for anything at this point. being a stay at home dad for the past 7 years or so it may be hard for me to get back in work force. But if i do leave her i will know i did not stay for just the kids. I am the victim here not her. I will let you guys know what i find out.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Jerry,

Hang around here. Let us not think about the possible course of action, now.

They come after you gather evidences.

Take care. Control your anger, emotions even if you find something.

AU


----------



## the guy

AU makes a great point and do not under estimate the emotional pain heading your way.


----------



## Gabriel

Big day today, Jerry. Good luck. Let us know what you find, if anything.


----------



## vickyyy

why dont u start earning.U r a MAN.dont be depend on ur wife and dont stay at home. just find a work.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Boy, that was helpful.


----------



## donewithit

vickyyy...seriously??!! if the OP were a stay at home mom u would be ok with it? Being a stay at home parent IS a full time job. Maybe this dad was better cut out for it than mom

He IS A MAN. HE IS TAKING CARE OF HIS KIDS!!!!

money does not make a man. Actions DO. 
wow.


----------



## Gabriel

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Boy, that was helpful.


Not to mention, borderline illiterate.


----------



## vickyyy

donewithit said:


> vickyyy...seriously??!! if the OP were a stay at home mom u would be ok with it? Being a stay at home parent IS a full time job. Maybe this dad was better cut out for it than mom
> 
> He IS A MAN. HE IS TAKING CARE OF HIS KIDS!!!!
> 
> money does not make a man. Actions DO.
> wow.


u r talking total [email protected] op needs to look for a job and become financially independent.not just for himself but to finance the education of his kids in future.

"money does not make a man" - such sentences r very easy to type on keyboard.


----------



## PHTlump

donewithit said:


> vickyyy...seriously??!! if the OP were a stay at home mom u would be ok with it? Being a stay at home parent IS a full time job. Maybe this dad was better cut out for it than mom
> 
> He IS A MAN. HE IS TAKING CARE OF HIS KIDS!!!!
> 
> money does not make a man. Actions DO.
> wow.


While I sympathize with the OP taking care of his kids, the fact is that a double standard DOES exist on this topic for both sexes.

Women who are homemakers instead of employed aren't viewed negatively. Men who do so are. Is that fair? No. Does that mean it isn't true? No.

It is very possible that the OP's wife has stopped being attracted to him because she views keeping house as feminine rather than masculine.

In any case, if that is true, it is a long-term problem with a long-term solution. The short-term strategy should be to gather evidence, decide whether an affair is happening, and then react to that.


----------



## tacoma

While I agree with you donewithit vickyy does have a point.

Your idea that a SAHD is just as valuable as a SAHM is perfectly rational, just, correct, and should be considered equitable with a SAHM.
However social perception (Which is anything but rational, just, or correct) states that a man who doesn`t work is less than a man.

Many women subconsciously disrespect their husbands when they don`t make as much as they do let alone a husband who is a SAHD.

Sad but true.


----------



## jerry123

donewithit said:


> vickyyy...seriously??!! if the OP were a stay at home mom u would be ok with it? Being a stay at home parent IS a full time job. Maybe this dad was better cut out for it than mom
> 
> He IS A MAN. HE IS TAKING CARE OF HIS KIDS!!!!
> 
> money does not make a man. Actions DO.
> wow.


Exactly!! I work 7 days a week from 6am-9pm!! No time off. I am very good at it. I've been doing it for years and that's why my wife has a good job.


----------



## jerry123

BTW, i will know more tonight. But it may take more than 1 day...


----------



## Machiavelli

tacoma said:


> Many women subconsciously disrespect their husbands when they don`t make as much as they do let alone a husband who is a SAHD.


Even when it was originally the wife's idea.


----------



## Chaparral

We have had quite a few stay at home dads posting in the past. The idea that their wives do not appreciate it is quite clear and I think the divorce rate is also higher than average.

In Australia, where women are (supposedly) treated much more equally than other countries, they have the highest percentage of women who sign up for cheating websites than any other country. It is also the only country where more women sign up to cheat than men. Hope this doesn't portend our future.


----------



## bandit.45

Yeah, women talk a good game about wanting equality in the home and workplace, yet when they are the ones bringing home most of the bread, it always seems they lose respect for their husbands, no matter how hard the husband works taking care of kids and home. 

It is thousands of years of genetic conditioning that have ingrained in women the need to be supported and cared for by their husbands. When they try to switch it around, it always fails in the end.


----------



## iheartlife

Has Jerry reported back yet?

I'm not sure if being a SAHD puts you at risk for your spouse cheating any more than anything else. And having a backbone and refusing to beg for the marriage works for both sexes; confidence and strength helped in our case and I'm a woman.

Wimpiness, crying, pleading, reasoning, false threats, none of that works for anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AngryandUsed

I was wondering if the topic was on SAHM VS SAHD. Jerry, update?


----------



## lordmayhem

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, women talk a good game about wanting equality in the home and workplace, yet when they are the ones bringing home most of the bread, it always seems they lose respect for their husbands, no matter how hard the husband works taking care of kids and home.
> 
> It is thousands of years of genetic conditioning that have ingrained in women the need to be supported and cared for by their husbands. When they try to switch it around, it always fails in the end.


Some truly are hypergamous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Update: GPS was normal and i am listening to VAR now. I know it will take more than 1 recording but i am eager to find out.

In the past she has tried to act superior to me in front of people. I took care of that after a nice long talk last year. She makes really good money but it still does not give her the right to think she can walk all over me...I am a reason why she is where she is...


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Update: GPS was normal and i am listening to VAR now. I know it will take more than 1 recording but i am eager to find out.
> 
> In the past she has tried to act superior to me in front of people. I took care of that after a nice long talk last year. She makes really good money but it still does not give her the right to think she can walk all over me...I am a reason why she is where she is...


This isn't good. That's showing blatant disrespect. Whatever I did I would get out of the stay at home dad situation.


----------



## Subi

i think she is being short sighted and naive if you walked out on her, her world would fall to pieces. I think it is about time she got reminded of that. Another long chat is over due.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

curious if there are any updates...


----------



## Subi

yeah me too. Been wondering about jerry123
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

he hasnt even been on since the 12th


----------



## Complexity

I was gonna say something about him being a stay at home dad but I see people have picked that up.


----------



## bandit.45

Something big went down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

hooray for speculation!!


----------



## jerry123

Hi friends...no, nothing big went down yet. I am using GPS and VAR and still waiting. I've learned to be patient. Because in the end if anything is going on i will have to have proof and decided not to approach the wife without it. 
VAR is working good, the feature where it turns off until voice is heard is great. Picks up clear voice even if her radio is on.
Thanks to all opinions and will let everyone know if i find proof...


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Hi friends...no, nothing big went down yet. I am using GPS and VAR and still waiting. I've learned to be patient. Because in the end if anything is going on i will have to have proof and decided not to approach the wife without it.
> VAR is working good, the feature where it turns off until voice is heard is great. Picks up clear voice even if her radio is on.
> Thanks to all opinions and will let everyone know if i find proof...


A lot of people have trouble with VAR. What model did you get and did you velcro it underthe seat?

Does she drop off kids in the car?


----------



## lovelygirl

the guy said:


> Instead be something she isn't expecting, be a man that will not beg for his marriage , a man that will not tolorate it, and a man that is confident enough to give up his marriage if she continues. If she continues to deny, ask her to leave. If she admits, then smile, ask her if she want to stay married..


Well said!!
She should be the one to beg for marriage!


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> A lot of people have trouble with VAR. What model did you get and did you velcro it underthe seat?
> 
> Does she drop off kids in the car?


Olympus W-700, and got 3M velcro which i put under seat. VAR cost $100 and best buy but it works really good. Has 26 staight hours of record time on 1 charge. But it shuts off if no voice is heard so i can go 4 days on 1 charge.

I truly believe something happened last year in November. I had no GPS/VAR then so i have no proof. I think she may have felt guilt and stopped anymore encounters but who knows if the guilt goes away she may do it again but this time i will have proof. Patience is a virtue...


----------



## Almostrecovered

if you get nothing for a while you may try something to "spook her" into doing something that will get her caught


----------



## jerry123

Ok, just wanted to share what the VAR picked up last week.

While she was driving to a place with my daughter my wife got out of car and went into a store. When she came out and was putting my daughter in my wife started singing "it's your birthday, it's your birthday...birthday, birthday. Well, turns out it was the guys birthday that very day. So was she talking to him on cell at store or even texting and he was telling her it is his birthday? HMMMM...not hard evidence but she may have been thinking about conversation sub cons. and she started singing the song which was NOT on radio.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> I truly believe something happened last year in November. I had no GPS/VAR then so i have no proof. I think she may have felt guilt and stopped anymore encounters but who knows if the guilt goes away she may do it again but this time i will have proof. Patience is a virtue...


Same neighbor? 



jerry123 said:


> Ok, just wanted to share what the VAR picked up last week.
> 
> While she was driving to a place with my daughter my wife got out of car and went into a store. When she came out and was putting my daughter in my wife started singing "it's your birthday, it's your birthday...birthday, birthday. Well, turns out it was the guys birthday that very day. So was she talking to him on cell at store or even texting and he was telling her it is his birthday? HMMMM...not hard evidence but she may have been thinking about conversation sub cons. and she started singing the song which was NOT on radio.


Damn, well at least you can gather evidence this time. Are you checking her texts?


----------



## Shaggy

If it was his birthday you know she found someway to hook up with him to give him birthday sex. When and where could she have done that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Same neighbor?
> 
> 
> yes, same neighbor..
> 
> 
> Damn, well at least you can gather evidence this time. Are you checking her texts?


That's just it, her blackberry is on lock mode. But i can get on BB if i check 2 minutes after she has checked email. I sometimes only have 2-3 minutes to look since she could come down stairs any minute to do laundry/get a snack. So, i need to know where the text section is. I have an iphone, BB is much different.


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> If it was his birthday you know she found someway to hook up with him to give him birthday sex. When and where could she have done that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I've been checking VAR/GPS...only way would be before work. And that would have to be at 6:30 AM. I guess it's possible but GPS/VAR has only come up with her little song the other day. But it just seems too much of a coinky dink to brush off.


----------



## Almostrecovered

jerry123 said:


> Ok, just wanted to share what the VAR picked up last week.
> 
> While she was driving to a place with my daughter my wife got out of car and went into a store. When she came out and was putting my daughter in my wife started singing "it's your birthday, it's your birthday...birthday, birthday. Well, turns out it was the guys birthday that very day. So was she talking to him on cell at store or even texting and he was telling her it is his birthday? HMMMM...not hard evidence but she may have been thinking about conversation sub cons. and she started singing the song which was NOT on radio.


any way to check the receipt, because she might have bought him a present


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> That's just it, her blackberry is on lock mode. But i can get on BB if i check 2 minutes after she has checked email. I sometimes only have 2-3 minutes to look since she could come down stairs any minute to do laundry/get a snack. So, i need to know where the text section is. I have an iphone, BB is much different.


There are some apps for computer which you can extract deleted/current texts. I don't recall the name but google it.

How about when she goes into shower, does she take it with her? That might be decent time to get a backup off the phone.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> That's just it, her blackberry is on lock mode. But i can get on BB if i check 2 minutes after she has checked email. I sometimes only have 2-3 minutes to look since she could come down stairs any minute to do laundry/get a snack. So, i need to know where the text section is. I have an iphone, BB is much different.


When you turn on the BB, look for a BB-shaped icon with a tiny bubble like you see in a cartoon. Click that and up pops text messages by phone #. You click on the phone # and then you see the messages that have been sent back and forth. That's assuming she's using straight plain texting and not something else, but she has such tight control over the phone that this is likely what she's using. But my WS carefully deleted ALL texts before he put the phone down.


----------



## Almostrecovered

keko said:


> There are some apps for computer which you can extract deleted/current texts. I don't recall the name but google it.
> 
> How about when she goes into shower, does she take it with her? That might be decent time to get a backup off the phone.





lordmayhem said:


> IF you can get a hold of the blackberry and IF its not password locked, then download and install Blackberry Desktop Manager and back it up. Then use ABC Amber Blackberry converter to decode the back up file.


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> any way to check the receipt, because she might have bought him a present



i can check bank account and CC, good thinking.


----------



## PHTlump

jerry123 said:


> So, i need to know where the text section is. I have an iphone, BB is much different.


Check Youtube for videos on using a Blackberry.


----------



## iheartlife

iheartlife said:


> When you turn on the BB, look for a BB-shaped icon with a tiny bubble like you see in a cartoon. Click that and up pops text messages by phone #. You click on the phone # and then you see the messages that have been sent back and forth. That's assuming she's using straight plain texting and not something else, but she has such tight control over the phone that this is likely what she's using. But my WS carefully deleted ALL texts before he put the phone down.


I just googled it and on some older phones the BB-shaped icon (literally like a little phone) might have an envelope next to it (overlapping it) instead of the bubble shape. Mine is newer and has the cartoon bubble.

If you don't spot it when you turn on the phone and see the main menu, you're going to have to click "All" in the ribbon at the top of the page to pull up all the main icons. She uses it so much, though, it should be in the top row of icons.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> I just googled it and on some older phones the BB-shaped icon (literally like a little phone) might have an envelope next to it (overlapping it) instead of the bubble shape. Mine is newer and has the cartoon bubble.
> 
> If you don't spot it when you turn on the phone and see the main menu, you're going to have to click "All" in the ribbon at the top of the page to pull up all the main icons. She uses it so much, though, it should be in the top row of icons.


ok, i do see a cartoon bubble sometimes that has like 3 lines in it. it's very small near her envelope icon.


----------



## jerry123

I don't have much time when it's unlocked. And won't be able to do this if it is locked i assume.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> ok, i do see a cartoon bubble sometimes that has like 3 lines in it. it's very small near her envelope icon.


Yep that should be it. My bubble is yellow with 3 lines and the little phone is black. Oops, edited to say, 2 little lines.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> I don't have much time when it's unlocked. And won't be able to do this if it is locked i assume.


Does she take a shower daily? Does she take the phone with her?


----------



## warlock07

Can you take a picture of the phone and post here? What phone do you have?


----------



## Almostrecovered

get her plastered and passed out


(okay bad idea, this one is tricky)

is a PI cost too much for you?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Does she take a shower daily? Does she take the phone with her?


no, but she knows it's locked and does not take it with her in shower.


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> Can you take a picture of the phone and post here? What phone do you have?


will do tonight, i keep looking for model number also.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> no, but she knows it's locked and does not take it with her in shower.


Does she use it/unlock it just before going in? Checking it in the open might be a little risky, given the circumstances.


----------



## Almostrecovered

you could always just grab the damn thing and run to the car and drive off


----------



## AngryandUsed

Almost recovered posted a technique by which you can backup her BB and retrieve those messages and texts.

Could you try that one?

I think you should now consider hiring a PI, as the other route has not given you any solid evidence.

Check previous CC statements, bank statements for unusual purchases.


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Does she use it/unlock it just before going in? Checking it in the open might be a little risky, given the circumstances.


yes, this is what i try to do in morning...she does not every morning though.


----------



## iheartlife

My understanding is that once deleted BB texts are gone forever. If I'm mistaken, I'd love to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> My understanding is that once deleted BB texts are gone forever. If I'm mistaken, I'd love to know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I actually think she is not deleting them right away since she knows i don't know her password to BB. She feels safe keeping them at least for a little while is what i am thinking. Thing is, if i click on a new text then it will show that it's been looked at. I'm hoping for old ones...


----------



## Shaggy

You can always delete the new unread texts yourself after reading them . Since you don't know that password, they must not have been delivered?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> if you get nothing for a while you may try something to "spook her" into doing something that will get her caught


The thing is this may just be an occasional hookup or even rarely.

There is a radio show (Kane Show) where cheaters are exposed by offering them free roses to send to their romantic interest from a fictitious flower shop. If that may not be appropriate, they sometimes call the cheater asa health worker and and tell them their name has been given to them by someone that tested positive for a STD. They are then asked to give the first name and phone number with all the people they have had any kind of sex with for the past 90 days. Another appraoch is an offer from the station for a cruise if they answer the question of who saw them naked last. Supposedly someone entered their name in the contest and if the cheater says the right name they get a cruise.

Anyway, you could play them. For example a fake, annonymous, email to you to start watching your wife as rumours have started going around about her and some other man. I mean you could get creative with a little thought.

Definitely, go through credit card reciepts, phone records, bank accts. etc. for the last year. Even gas reciept locations could be helpful.

War Of The Roses


----------



## lovelygirl

I agree. This could be a casual hook up/cheating that she has been planning with OM. 
She might now meet him everyday but every now and then it happens. 
I agree about hiring a PI.


----------



## strugglinghusband

check this link RE: blackberry, might be what your looking for?

Mobile Phone Spy | Cell Phone Recon | SECRETLY Monitor Calls & Texts


----------



## jerry123

Ok, quick update...GPS/VAR have been normal other than the little birthday song it picked up the other day. 
Funny thing i have to share. I had a poker game 2 weeks ago and needed a sub, this suspected OM (neighbor) knew i needed a sub (through a player at the game) to play but i did not ask him. I got someone else... he texted me that night and wondered if i needed a sub and i told him no i got one a few days earlier. And i thought he had plans/work so i did not ask him. So for the last 6-7 days he has not stopped over and even if i'm driving on our road and pass by him he will not wave. So i am thinking he is pissed at me for not asking him or he knows i may suspect something happened in the past with my wife. I know i should have had him play just to watch him and my wife reactions in the same room.

So, after thinking for the last week or so i still think something went on or is going on but they are both being very low key. Meaning no "thinking of you", "miss you"... I think it may be, if my wife has the chance to get away every 2-3 months then they see each other. If my wife is cheating she KNOWS if she gets caught and the family finds out or work finds out her life is over. You would think that she would realize this and never do it but people don't think straight in these situations. but alas i have the VAR/GPS so i know i need to have patients and if something is up i will find out...

Thanks everyone


----------



## Humble Pie

jerry, this might have been suggested or a bit childish, but do you think asking her to "check out" her phone, to see if you might want to change from a iphone to blackberry "cause yours is having issues" could work? I mean you arent getting anywhere trying to look at it when she isnt noticing. Given you havent mentioned anything to her about your suspicion, watch her reaction on if she unlocks it and willingly give it to you to "check out".

Also, about that birthday song she was singing the same day as your neighbors birthday... was she talking after she was singing, or just singing, like she was talking to a message system?

And in previous posts, you mention last novemeber you definately think something happened between them two... can you elaborate.


----------



## iheartlife

95% of my husband's EA was carried on via email and text. He did talk in the car quite a bit so a VAR would have helped me, but he only saw her for lunch about every 2 mos., so GPS would not have helped me. Just pointing out, as you already know, that there's a major gap in your surveillance since you can't even get her cell phone bills.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you tried to guess her password on her phone bill?


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Ok, quick update...GPS/VAR have been normal other than the little birthday song it picked up the other day.
> Funny thing i have to share. I had a poker game 2 weeks ago and needed a sub, this suspected OM (neighbor) knew i needed a sub (through a player at the game) to play but i did not ask him. I got someone else... he texted me that night and wondered if i needed a sub and i told him no i got one a few days earlier. And i thought he had plans/work so i did not ask him. So for the last 6-7 days he has not stopped over and even if i'm driving on our road and pass by him he will not wave. So i am thinking he is pissed at me for not asking him or he knows i may suspect something happened in the past with my wife. I know i should have had him play just to watch him and my wife reactions in the same room.
> 
> So, after thinking for the last week or so i still think something went on or is going on but they are both being very low key. Meaning no "thinking of you", "miss you"... I think it may be, if my wife has the chance to get away every 2-3 months then they see each other. If my wife is cheating she KNOWS if she gets caught and the family finds out or work finds out her life is over. You would think that she would realize this and never do it but people don't think straight in these situations. but alas i have the VAR/GPS so i know i need to have patients and if something is up i will find out...
> 
> Thanks everyone


Keep cool with him for a while and see if your wife mentions it. If she doesn't after a while, ask her if she has spoken with him since he seems to be pissed at you. If you think he is meesing with your wife I don't see how his distance can hurt, then if he makes any contact you can judge her reaction.


----------



## warlock07

Your process is too slow and might take many many months. Even then you will not be sure of it. It will be hell all through this time. If she wasn't cheating, then you are wasting your time being paranoid instead of being happy. Like I said earlier, give them a bait. Make an opportunity where you will be out of the house and see if they take it.


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> jerry, this might have been suggested or a bit childish, but do you think asking her to "check out" her phone, to see if you might want to change from a iphone to blackberry "cause yours is having issues" could work? I mean you arent getting anywhere trying to look at it when she isnt noticing. Given you havent mentioned anything to her about your suspicion, watch her reaction on if she unlocks it and willingly give it to you to "check out".
> 
> Also, about that birthday song she was singing the same day as your neighbors birthday... was she talking after she was singing, or just singing, like she was talking to a message system?
> 
> And in previous posts, you mention last novemeber you definately think something happened between them two... can you elaborate.


It's a work phone and all they use is BB edited: i reread your post, don't want her to suspect anything so i can't do that...i forgot to mention i found out how to see texts that are NOT deleted on her phone, of course that does not help me if she deletes them. I check her emails also. Still does no good if she gets rid of them. I don't want to arouse anything by asking to see her phone. I am showing no concern at all with her and i think it may help me in the end if i keep doing this.
The song she was singing was right when she got back in car with my daughter, it was on 3 lines she was singing for 5-8 seconds so she was not on phone.
As for last november, it was a day she went shopping for 3 hours and as soon as she got home he OM (neighbor) called me 1 minute after she walked in door for idle chit chat. I think OM thrives on calling/coming over after they might do things (like to say secretly to himself, i just f'ed your wife) After that incident he/her acted weird around each other. Also, a week or 2 after that he was over on his lawn tractor talking to me and she opened the door, he could just barely see her but heard her open door and the funniest thing is like in slow motion he got off his tractor to stand up. By then she closed the door and he seemed shocked and changed his demeanor. The thing that started me thinking was months before this he was asking me if my wife worked out, i said no and he said wow she has a nice body for not working out...


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Keep cool with him for a while and see if your wife mentions it. If she doesn't after a while, ask her if she has spoken with him since he seems to be pissed at you. If you think he is meesing with your wife I don't see how his distance can hurt, then if he makes any contact you can judge her reaction.


yes, i've been waiting to see if my wife mentions anyhting about this. But not yet, trust me, she is a very smart person so i really need her to slip up.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Have you tried to guess her password on her phone bill?


work phone, i never see bill.


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> Your process is too slow and might take many many months. Even then you will not be sure of it. It will be hell all through this time. If she wasn't cheating, then you are wasting your time being paranoid instead of being happy. Like I said earlier, give them a bait. Make an opportunity where you will be out of the house and see if they take it.


I understand your point, but if i am out of house i would have to take kids. I could possibly suggest this but at the same tim OM would have to be free to come over, and he has a wife and 2 kids.I could plan on doing that 2-3 weeks in advance. Then see if there are signs they planned something.


----------



## iheartlife

Are you absolutely sure you can't see the phone records.

My husband also uses a blackberry for work. But what I discovered (after DD#2, so AFTER he had ended it) was that if I went to our carrier's website, typed in his phone #, that he had not created an account. So I set up an account using his work email and my password. Easy as pie.

Now of course, there was probably an email sent from the carrier to his work email saying his online phone account was set up. But the online account gave me access to 12 mos. of phone records and the previous month's text records (phone #'s texted, not actual texts).

Personally I'd take a shot at this, because it would raise fewer red flags. She would be able to go in and change the password to such an account, however, because she has the email address on it, but theoretically you'd have what you needed before that happened.

Other companies it's a joint account that you can't manage yourself online so this wouldn't work.


----------



## Humble Pie

jerry123 said:


> It's a work phone and all they use is BB...i forgot to mention i found out how to see texts that are NOT deleted on her phone, of course that does not help me if she deletes them. I check her emails also. Still does no good if she gets rid of them. I don't want to arouse anything by asking to see her phone. I am showing no concern at all with her and i think it may help me in the end if i keep doing this.
> The song she was singing was right when she got back in car with my daughter, it was on 3 lines she was singing for 5-8 seconds so she was not on phone.
> As for last november, it was a day she went shopping for 3 hours and as soon as she got home he OM (neighbor) called me 1 minute after she walked in door for idle chit chat. I think OM thrives on calling/coming over after they might do things (like to say secretly to himself, i just f'ed your wife) After that incident he/her acted weird around each other. Also, a week or 2 after that he was over on his lawn tractor talking to me and she opened the door, he could just barely see her but heard her open door and the funniest thing is like in slow motion he got off his tractor to stand up. By then she closed the door and he seemed shocked and changed his demeanor. The thing that started me thinking was months before this he was asking me if my wife worked out, i said no and he said wow she has a nice body for not working out...


Jerry, yes I remember reading about this incident in November you posted earlier, appologies... 

Just like Warlock mention, this might beat you up thinking about, and being on "caution" mode until you strike something that might not even be there. I know you cannot re-create the situation in November with her going out shopping for 3 hours (can you?) but you must shake things up by changing some type of routine... bait them in some way, some form. You have to get past this suspicion with something solid and start to live happy and carefree with you wife if there really isnt anything there, just some dumb-a$$ who lives on your block...


----------



## Subi

jerry nice to hear from you. We all know that idiot had a thing going on with your wife. Your wife is very smart indeed in keeping it under wraps coz she does care about her job and reputation. It is time to snub this man. Do not create a breeding ground for the affair. Keep watching them but do not encourage them. Just ignore this man. You dont have to be nice to him. Dont invite him into yo home coz he will only make a fool.of you. He is so stupid. Dont play with him at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Humble Pie

Subi said:


> jerry nice to hear from you. We all know that idiot had a thing going on with your wife. Your wife is very smart indeed in keeping it under wraps coz she does care about her job and reputation. It is time to snub this man. Do not create a breeding ground for the affair. Keep watching them but do not encourage them. Just ignore this man. You dont have to be nice to him. Dont invite him into yo home coz he will only make a fool.of you. He is so stupid. Dont play with him at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


the only thing we know is that this guy is inappropriate, he talks like a child, and presents a different character with his wife than with Jerry (in wife presence)... there still is not conclusive evidence to throw his wife under the bus just yet, IMHO


----------



## jerry123

Subi said:


> jerry nice to hear from you. We all know that idiot had a thing going on with your wife. Your wife is very smart indeed in keeping it under wraps coz she does care about her job and reputation. It is time to snub this man. Do not create a breeding ground for the affair. Keep watching them but do not encourage them. Just ignore this man. You dont have to be nice to him. Dont invite him into yo home coz he will only make a fool.of you. He is so stupid. Dont play with him at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hear ya!! If they are playing the game of seeing each other every 2-3 months then i will just wait for that day. Yes, she is smart. If she is doing something i know it's not about emotion with him, it's just sex.


----------



## jerry123

Humble Pie said:


> the only thing we know is that this guy is inappropriate, he talks like a child, and presents a different character with his wife than with Jerry (in wife presence)... there still is not conclusive evidence to throw his wife under the bus just yet, IMHO


oh i know...but this slimeball does act like a kid, and the things he used to say about my wife in front of me is something i would never say to any ones wife. 
The thing that gets me thinking is my wife may think of him as attractive by talking like that. That's her downfall, she is a strong/smart woman but guys talking like that make her weak. I can't explain it but i've known her for 16 years...


----------



## keko

Agreed with iheartlife. You need to find a way to get her messages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

I would set up a convenient day to get out with the kids and then have a PI or friend follow the wife


----------



## iheartlife

keko said:


> Agreed with iheartlife. You need to find a way to get her messages.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just curious if you've already tried going online to her wireless carrier's webpage, typing her phone and email address in, and seeing if they already have an ONLINE account for that phone #--or not.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> Just curious if you've already tried going online to her wireless carrier's webpage, typing her phone and email address in, and seeing if they already have an ONLINE account for that phone #--or not.


So i've been thinking of this post. I went to at&t website. But it's not asking for phone number. it is asking for login info and password.


----------



## keko

You have to register.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> So i've been thinking of this post. I went to at&t website. But it's not asking for phone number. it is asking for login info and password.


What I did was assume there was no account and walked through registering a new account for the phone. Understand there's already an "account" but they are distinguishing btwn online access to accounts vs. obtaining service.

One bummer, when I go to the AT&T website it wants you to create a "unique id" to link all your AT&T accounts. That may be tough to get past.


----------



## Almostrecovered

be warned when you register for online billing on at&t they send you a confirmation text to the phone


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> What I did was assume there was no account and walked through registering a new account for the phone. Understand there's already an "account" but they are distinguishing btwn online access to accounts vs. obtaining service.
> 
> One bummer, when I go to the AT&T website it wants you to create a "unique id" to link all your AT&T accounts. That may be tough to get past.


i know, everything i have is at&t now. I don't want to add her phone to my bill.


----------



## keko

Almostrecovered said:


> be warned when you register for online billing on at&t they send you a confirmation text to the phone


Maybe her company registered it for her?


----------



## Chaparral

The most used scenario for this type of affair is for them to leave work. Like her leaving early but getting home at the same time. Or meeting at lunch or showing up late to work.

Has your sexlife changed at all, either more or less. Has she introduced anything new?

Any new dynamic in the marriage at all, even before you "noticed" something?

About playing it cool with him (which you should have with his first inappropriate remarks), you dissed him with the poker sub thing, and he dissed you back, this is a great oppurtunity to ditch him permanately so that any contact with your wife would now be inappropriate also. If your wife asks tell her you also heard some stories about him and what he's been doing on his job(for example). I might imply(joke about) an STD but not come out and say it.

I would also open her address book and change one digit of his phone number and see how soon it gets changed back.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> So i've been thinking of this post. I went to at&t website. But it's not asking for phone number. it is asking for login info and password.


Do you know any of her passwords for anything, she may use the same ones. Maybe with a number added if a number is required.

Every one should know at least one hacker geek like in "The Girl With a Dragon Tatoo".


----------



## Gabriel

chapparal said:


> The most used scenario for this type of affair is for them to leave work. Like her leaving early but getting home at the same time. Or meeting at lunch or showing up late to work.
> 
> Has your sexlife changed at all, either more or less. Has she introduced anything new?
> 
> Any new dynamic in the marriage at all, even before you "noticed" something?
> 
> About playing it cool with him (which you should have with his first inappropriate remarks), you dissed him with the poker sub thing, and he dissed you back, this is a great oppurtunity to ditch him permanately so that any contact with your wife would now be inappropriate also. If your wife asks tell her you also heard some stories about him and what he's been doing on his job(for example). I might imply(joke about) an STD but not come out and say it.
> 
> I would also open her address book and change one digit of his phone number and see how soon it gets changed back.


Chap has good posts in general, but we need to be careful about the first sentence "this type of affair". No affair has been proven or outed here yet. People tend to jump quickly to this conclusion. Let's see what he finds out.


----------



## keko

Jerry, 

Did you find any different spending from Nov? Like a coffee few towns away? drinks at a hotel bar? birth control pills?


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> Chap has good posts in general, but we need to be careful about the first sentence "this type of affair". No affair has been proven or outed here yet. People tend to jump quickly to this conclusion. Let's see what he finds out.


Perfectly true, no affair has been proven. The only thing we are sure of is the OM is a squirrel that need to be avoided.....

Also, an intereting statistic I recall is that when it comes to infidelity a mans gut feeling is only right half the time. A womans gut feeling is right 80% of the time! Ouch

However, if it turns out to be an affair, I think it will fall along those lines but we all know anything is possible.

I really have my doubts that it is an affair but once your suspicions are aroused you have no real choice but to follow your nose until you can have some peace. In any event it looks like they will lose the creepy neighbor.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> The most used scenario for this type of affair is for them to leave work. Like her leaving early but getting home at the same time. Or meeting at lunch or showing up late to work.
> 
> Has your sexlife changed at all, either more or less. Has she introduced anything new?
> 
> Any new dynamic in the marriage at all, even before you "noticed" something?
> 
> About playing it cool with him (which you should have with his first inappropriate remarks), you dissed him with the poker sub thing, and he dissed you back, this is a great oppurtunity to ditch him permanately so that any contact with your wife would now be inappropriate also. If your wife asks tell her you also heard some stories about him and what he's been doing on his job(for example). I might imply(joke about) an STD but not come out and say it.
> 
> I would also open her address book and change one digit of his phone number and see how soon it gets changed back.


If she leaves work early and goes anywhere in car the GPS will tell me...

Sex life has been normal, but lately (2-3 months) i have trying to notice if she wants to try anything new. Nothing strange has come up.

good idea about ditch him perm., but i am trying to act as everything is normal because i know they will mess up soon if anything is going on.

Have been checking texts and emails on BB after she unlocks it. I have 2 minutes to go on phone and look before it locks. I will type his phone number in next time and see if it's in the contact list.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Do you know any of her passwords for anything, she may use the same ones. Maybe with a number added if a number is required.
> 
> Every one should know at least one hacker geek like in "The Girl With a Dragon Tatoo".


No, i also find it strange she locks her BB even at home. Still, i am playing it cool and not asking her because she would find it strange that i would ask why she locks it.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Chap has good posts in general, but we need to be careful about the first sentence "this type of affair". No affair has been proven or outed here yet. People tend to jump quickly to this conclusion. Let's see what he finds out.


I understand....


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Jerry,
> 
> Did you find any different spending from Nov? Like a coffee few towns away? drinks at a hotel bar? birth control pills?


No, except for the 3 hour shopping trip in nov. Not on birth control, she had tubes tied after our last kid. I know i had no GPS/VAR back in Nov. So if anything happened i have no proof unless she confesses. But now, i will have proof with VAR/GPS.


----------



## keko

Did you try to install a backup extractor for BB? Would it work even if there is a password? Or does the BB has a sim card?


----------



## cledus_snow

Jesus. 

to think this is what you have to go through to keep your own spouse honest. WTF???????


----------



## jerry123

Ok, followup. Just seen the OM (neighbor) at the end of our road stopped at stop light. I pull next to him and he slowly turns his head to my car. In the mean time i am looking for any clues (being scared i know/me telling him off) while watching him roll down his window. He waits 5 seconds after he turns his head (strangely slow) like he is turning down radio. Opens window and says what's up. I def sense he thinks i found something out or is worried i am about to chew his ass out. It's funny how much you notice when you are really looking and listening.
So i wanted to make sure he is calm and not worried i may know something so i idle chit chat with him. His mood changed from being worried to happy go lucky. Red flag's keep coming...

So i am just being patient and checking VAR/GPS because i know they will screw up soon...


----------



## iheartlife

keko said:


> Did you try to install a backup extractor for BB? Would it work even if there is a password? Or does the BB has a sim card?


As far as I know, extractors, backing up, and sim cards don't work on deleted BB stuff. Deleted BB stuff is gone, like gone gone gone. Just google retrieving deleted stuff from BBs....

Oh, but I did think of one useful thing. I doubt they email each other, but you can search emails remotely from their desktops. Just do an advanced search and instead of device choose desktop. That way if it's been deleted on the BB, and it's still on the work computer, it shows up.


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Did you try to install a backup extractor for BB? Would it work even if there is a password? Or does the BB has a sim card?


Well, what i can do is buy the software to track the BB. That would mean i would have to get to her browser and goto web site and download. I would need to have 5-10 minutes of access to BB though. That would be tough.

Even if i instal backup protector i would need access to phone more than 2 minutes.


----------



## keko

Can you guess her password? 

Or ask her to use her phone when she is in shower/she'll tell you the password?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Perfectly true, no affair has been proven. The only thing we are sure of is the OM is a squirrel that need to be avoided.....
> 
> Also, an intereting statistic I recall is that when it comes to infidelity a mans gut feeling is only right half the time. A womans gut feeling is right 80% of the time! Ouch
> 
> However, if it turns out to be an affair, I think it will fall along those lines but we all know anything is possible.
> 
> I really have my doubts that it is an affair but once your suspicions are aroused you have no real choice but to follow your nose until you can have some peace. In any event it looks like they will lose the creepy neighbor.


I know you guys don't know me or my wife, but who ever has gone through this then you know that gut feeling i am talking about. To be honest, if this guy would have kept his mouth shut about sex talk last year and saying my wife has a good body for not working out then i would not have any susp.
But he thinks he is untouchable right now. And my wife is way too smart to mess up and blurt something out or even mention this guy in conversation. But she can't outsmart a VAR/GPS.


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Can you guess her password?
> 
> Or ask her to use her phone when she is in shower/she'll tell you the password?


Hmmm, you know what. My son might know the password since he plays games once in a while. But being smart, she could change it everyday if she wanted to.
Can't ask her to borrow phone since i have my iphone. She would think it is strange for me to ask.


----------



## cledus_snow

^tell her your battery is dying, or your phone is on the fritz and use hers for a quick moment. look for a reaction when you ask her. if she seems guarded, something is up.


----------



## warlock07

I not sure what you mean by the 2 mins thing. The phone locks up after 2 mins of inactivity? Is that what you mean? If you are using it, then it won't lock up.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> Hmmm, you know what. My son might know the password since he plays games once in a while. But being smart, she could change it everyday if she wanted to.


Might be worth a shot. Make sure to watch tutorials on the web before going into it. 

Make the most of the time you have access to it, or you could forward all of her meesages to your phone and read it there.


----------



## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> I not sure what you mean by the 2 mins thing. The phone locks up after 2 mins of inactivity? Is that what you mean? If you are using it, then it won't lock up.


yes, you can set it i'm sure for 2/5/10 minutes.


----------



## jerry123

cledus_snow said:


> ^tell her your battery is dying, or your phone is on the fritz and use hers for a quick moment. look for a reaction when you ask her. if she seems guarded, something is up.


She knows i have no idea how to use a BB, it would also raise susp. Trust me, i keep saying she is smart and she is...right now she has no idea i suspect anything and i want to keep it that way.


----------



## Almostrecovered

you dont know how to make a call on a blackberry?!

its simple- drain your phone
think of a reason while you are out that you need to make a call
reach over and grab the phone, state your phone is dead and need to make a call and ask for her password

she will get defensive and you will know that something is definitely up or she actually gives you the password and you can snoop later (or know something is up if she changes it right away)


----------



## Gabriel

This thread has the potential to reach Shamwow levels depending on how long it takes and what he finds out.


----------



## lordmayhem

This is why you should already have the Blackberry Desktop Manager 

BlackBerry - BlackBerry Desktop Software - BlackBerry Software at BlackBerry.com

installed and the data cable hooked up ready to go. Then you hook up the blackberry and download the backup.

Then use an extractor like ABC Amber Blackberry Converter

ABC Amber BlackBerry Converter - Download










If only I had known about infidelity support sites like these 2 years ago and gotten help, I would have been able to get the full story from her blackberry, instead of the gaslighting and the denials.


----------



## Thorburn

Jerry, since you have the VAR I would suggest this. Buy a rose. Pay someone to put it on her car at her work place with a little note card with a smiley face  on it in the signature block (have someone else write out the smiley). Time it near her quiting time. See if she calls the OM and thanks him for it. If she asks you if you did it, tell her yes I wanted to brighten up your day and leave it at that.

Jerry, I am sorry but the post is so long and I don't know the answer to this. Does your wife take her BB with her to any particular place in the house and spend time there alone? If so, if you could put a VAR and a a little nanny cam in there without her seeing it there may be something there.

My wife had a burner phone and had I known about it I could have caught her earlier, because she would go into our basement in the laundry room to contact the OM when I was home. In that room it would have been easy to hide a VAR and a nanny cam.

just some ideas.

You are doing better then I would be and I am still hoping that this is not what you think it is.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Hmmm, you know what. My son might know the password since he plays games once in a while. But being smart, she could change it everyday if she wanted to.
> Can't ask her to borrow phone since i have my iphone. She would think it is strange for me to ask.


What about changing how long it takes for the phone to lockup. Research this via google then swoop in with your two minutes and do that first.


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> She knows i have no idea how to use a BB, it would also raise susp. Trust me, i keep saying she is smart and she is...right now she has no idea i suspect anything and i want to keep it that way.


You think she's TOO smart but from what I read here she's not THAT smart. 

If she was THAT smart you wouldn't have had suspected about anything now. 
Don't over-appreciate her. 

You're just being smarter than her.


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> This is why you should already have the Blackberry Desktop Manager
> 
> BlackBerry - BlackBerry Desktop Software - BlackBerry Software at BlackBerry.com
> 
> installed and the data cable hooked up ready to go. Then you hook up the blackberry and download the backup.
> 
> Then use an extractor like ABC Amber Blackberry Converter
> 
> ABC Amber BlackBerry Converter - Download
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If only I had known about infidelity support sites like these 2 years ago and gotten help, I would have been able to get the full story from her blackberry, instead of the gaslighting and the denials.


so the first one i instal on BB, and second one on PC? Sorry, i am an iphone guy not BB...


----------



## lordmayhem

jerry123 said:


> so the first one i instal on BB, and second one on PC? Sorry, i am an iphone guy not BB...


No, both will be on the PC. Install both the BB desktop manager and the converter on the pc first. The important thing is to get at that backup file by downloading it quickly. Then you can use the converter at your leisure when you have the private time to view the back up file and all the info it contains.


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> No, both will be on the PC. Install both the BB desktop manager and the converter on the pc first. The important thing is to get at that backup file by downloading it quickly. Then you can use the converter at your leisure when you have the private time to view the back up file and all the info it contains.


Ok, both are on PC hidden in a file she won't look at. So now i would need a BB data cable with USB end that goes into my PC? I ask this because my iphone uses one, don't know if BB does.


----------



## jerry123

lovelygirl said:


> You think she's TOO smart but from what I read here she's not THAT smart.
> 
> If she was THAT smart you wouldn't have had suspected about anything now.
> Don't over-appreciate her.
> 
> You're just being smarter than her.


 It was not her that arouse susp. it was him with all his sex talk around her/me that raised it. In the past he kept saying to me how she has a nice body for not working out. She does not ever mention him on a whim.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Ok, both are on PC hidden in a file she won't look at. So now i would need a BB data cable with USB end that goes into my PC? I ask this because my iphone uses one, don't know if BB does.


Yep. and BBs have this annoying habit, if the cable isn't just the perfect kind in the perfect USB slot, it won't sync up. I don't mean it has to be connected right, I just mean that any old port or cable will NOT do. So just know that this is an issue and don't be disappointed if it doesn't work right the first time.


----------



## lordmayhem

jerry123 said:


> Ok, both are on PC hidden in a file she won't look at. So now i would need a BB data cable with USB end that goes into my PC? I ask this because my iphone uses one, don't know if BB does.


Yes, you should have the data cable for it. The micro USB end fits into the BB and the regular USB end goes into the PC. Otherwise, go to your local wal mar or radio shack and get one. And like iheartlife advises, research how to extend the timeout. The intial sync may take longer than 2 mins, but after the BB has been mated with the desktop manager, any successive backups will take less than 2 mins.


----------



## keko

Did she kept the box of her phone? Maybe its still in there.


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> Yes, you should have the data cable for it. The micro USB end fits into the BB and the regular USB end goes into the PC. Otherwise, go to your local wal mar or radio shack and get one. And like iheartlife advises, research how to extend the timeout. The intial sync may take longer than 2 mins, but after the BB has been mated with the desktop manager, any successive backups will take less than 2 mins.


I don't have her data cable but i can get one at best buy...so i have her charger cable. Is that where the data link comes from. so i can just take charger cable to best buy and have them match it for a data cable i assume? I don't know model # on her BB...


----------



## lordmayhem

jerry123 said:


> I don't have her data cable but i can get one at best buy...so i have her charger cable. Is that where the data link comes from. so i can just take charger cable to best buy and have them match it for a data cable i assume? I don't know model # on her BB...


The charging port/data port are one and the same, just like an iPhone and most other phones. It's most likely a microUSB data cable, but if you're not sure, then by all means, take it to best buy and ask.


----------



## iheartlife

Agree with lordmayhem.

Just be aware there are two sizes of phone ports, older ones are slightly bigger, newer ones are very thin and tiny. You can only tell the difference really by comparing an old phone to a new one.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> Agree with lordmayhem.
> 
> Just be aware there are two sizes of phone ports, older ones are slightly bigger, newer ones are very thin and tiny. You can only tell the difference really by comparing an old phone to a new one.


hers is a newer one..i will go to Best buy today with charger cable. I have the desk top manager set to sync once cable is plugged in. I just hope it does not take long since i won't have much time to do this. Will have to do it if she looks at phone in morning then takes a shower.
thanks all, i know this thread is long but once i get phone records on desk top i will def know more.


----------



## kenmoore14217

Jerry, you need an accomplice, confidant, friend to help you with this. She needs to be pushed into a mistake. She needs to be pressured. There are programs out there that will give a false caller ID number. In other words, you could call your house from your phone but with this program put in the OM's number and that's what will show up. Someone is going to wonder why all these calls are coming into your home from his number! That's one way to start the ball rolling.


----------



## jerry123

kenmoore14217 said:


> Jerry, you need an accomplice, confidant, friend to help you with this. She needs to be pushed into a mistake. She needs to be pressured. There are programs out there that will give a false caller ID number. In other words, you could call your house from your phone but with this program put in the OM's number and that's what will show up. Someone is going to wonder why all these calls are coming into your home from his number! That's one way to start the ball rolling.


She will think he is calling for me...and i know she won't think he would be that dumb to call house for her.


----------



## lovelygirl

jerry123 said:


> She will think he is calling for me...and i know she won't think he would be that dumb to call house for her.


that's it!

It's very risky!


----------



## lordmayhem

This is a mini USB data cable. Many older phones use this. Ironically, this is a blackberry data cable, probably for an older model.










This is a micro USB data cable, which most new blackberrys, samsung android, etc, smart phones use nowadays.


----------



## jerry123

lordmayhem said:


> This is a mini USB data cable. Many older phones use this. Ironically, this is a blackberry data cable, probably for an older model.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a micro USB data cable, which most new blackberrys, samsung android, etc, smart phones use nowadays.


yup, it's the 2nd one...


----------



## morituri

Walmart has them for about $10.


----------



## Alyosha

kenmoore14217 said:


> ... She needs to be pushed into a mistake. She needs to be pressured. There are programs out there that will give a false caller ID number. In other words, you could call your house from your phone but with this program put in the OM's number and that's what will show up. Someone is going to wonder why all these calls are coming into your home from his number! That's one way to start the ball rolling.



Bad idea.


----------



## kenmoore14217

alright, how about an anonymous call to his wife letting her know that he is cheating with a neighbor?


----------



## Thorburn

Jerry, do you think she is texting him when she is home?


----------



## jerry123

Thorburn said:


> Jerry, do you think she is texting him when she is home?


I don't know, could very well be texting him right in front of me. Since she has a job where she checks her emails all the time. But i do know if she gets a text since the bubble comes up even when phone is locked. Of course i can't see who is texting unless she does not delete it.


----------



## jerry123

Ok, i got the cable. Quick question though. When i plug in cable to BB, it is supposed to download right away. Will it still do this if the phone is locked?


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Ok, i got the cable. Quick question though. When i plug in cable to BB, it is supposed to download right away. Will it still do this if the phone is locked?


I don't know, but I don't think so.


----------



## morituri

Follow the instructions (if there are any) or go to a tech savvy friend to help you.


----------



## spudster

iheartlife said:


> I don't know, but I don't think so.


You have to go to the Blackberry website and download the Blackberry Desktop Software app first and get it loaded ont o the computre. Once its loaded hide it in a folder somewhere. You have to use this app to backup the BB.


----------



## iheartlife

Then the software detects that the phone is hooked up. What I don't know is whether it will do it with the phone locked, and whether or not you have to unlock the phone to proceed further. I'm pretty sure locked is locked, but I cannot confirm and wouldn't want to risk giving bad advice.

Where is my WS's phone when I need it??? :rofl:


----------



## jerry123

spudster said:


> You have to go to the Blackberry website and download the Blackberry Desktop Software app first and get it loaded ont o the computre. Once its loaded hide it in a folder somewhere. You have to use this app to backup the BB.


I did download the BB desktop application, I assume it's the same as the link someone gave me in the post from this morning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

iheartlife said:


> Then the software detects that the phone is hooked up. What I don't know is whether it will do it with the phone locked, and whether or not you have to unlock the phone to proceed further. I'm pretty sure locked is locked, but I cannot confirm and wouldn't want to risk giving bad advice.
> 
> Where is my WS's phone when I need it??? :rofl:


Yes, just like when you first set up your iPhone to iTunes, it has to go thru the process of detecting the phone, syncing up, etc. That's why the first time is going to take a more than 2 minutes. 

Unfortunately we already gave away my fWWs blackberry a few months ago, so I can't try it with it locked. So I don't know.


----------



## Gabriel

Jerry, lets say you successfully do this and find absolutely nothing incriminating on her phone, nothing on the VAR for weeks, etc. Will you feel relieved and think everything is okay, or will you keep digging? And if you keep digging, what will you do?


----------



## feelingallalone

jerry123: hate to tell you this, but even if the BB phone is unlocked, the desktop software will still ask for the password before you can synch or access some others means by the computer. I know, I tried myself.


----------



## lordmayhem

feelingallalone said:


> jerry123: hate to tell you this, but even if the BB phone is unlocked, the desktop software will still ask for the password before you can synch or access some others means by the computer. I know, I tried myself.


At which point? I backed up my fWWs blackberry 2 years ago, the last being 6 months ago. I don't recall being asked for a password. I may be wrong, since I have already uninstalled Desktop manager.


----------



## feelingallalone

lordmayhem said:


> At which point? I backed up my fWWs blackberry 2 years ago, the last being 6 months ago. I don't recall being asked for a password. I may be wrong, since I have already uninstalled Desktop manager.


Phone was unlocked as soon as I connected it to the computer the Desktop Software asked for the PW. Couldn't get at it from the computer, it wouldn't sync. Perhaps there is a way, but I couldn't find it at the time.


----------



## keko

feelingallalone said:


> jerry123: hate to tell you this, but even if the BB phone is unlocked, the desktop software will still ask for the password before you can synch or access some others means by the computer. I know, I tried myself.


His son might know the password, having the kid nearby will come in handy.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Jerry, lets say you successfully do this and find absolutely nothing incriminating on her phone, nothing on the VAR for weeks, etc. Will you feel relieved and think everything is okay, or will you keep digging? And if you keep digging, what will you do?


I seen OM today, I've acted like I know about what's going on between them the last few weeks. Avoiding him/not stopping by his house when he is outside while I drive by. Trust me, the look he gave me when he seen me pull up next to him basically told me the whole story. It was like he seen a ghost, and he looked like he was waiting for me to come out with it. When I did not his whole mood changed. 
Yes I will keep digging. Right now I am 99% sure something went on or is going on. I will not make the newbie mistake of confronting without proof. They will both know they have me under their control and it will just push them underground. They will win, not me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

okay got it. Keep us up to speed. It's very possible that right after your last interaction with him, he called or texted your wife (if they are up to something, that is). 

Just imagine, "OMG, Jerry just pulled up next to me and it looked like he knew EVERYTHING. But then he just started making small talk, so we dodged a bullet. He still has no clue!"

So note the exact day/time you had this interaction, and check it back to whatever you find.


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> okay got it. Keep us up to speed. It's very possible that right after your last interaction with him, he called or texted your wife (if they are up to something, that is).
> 
> Just imagine, "OMG, Jerry just pulled up next to me and it looked like he knew EVERYTHING. But then he just started making small talk, so we dodged a bullet. He still has no clue!"
> 
> So note the exact day/time you had this interaction, and check it back to whatever you find.



Yes, that's what i was thinking too. First chance i get i am going to type in his number for a text/phone number and see if she has it under something like "joe smith". Will let you guys know tomorrow what i find by doing that.


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Yes, that's what i was thinking too. First chance i get i am going to type in his number for a text/phone number and see if she has it under something like "joe smith". Will let you guys know tomorrow what i find by doing that.


That would be so damning.

There's also a folder with saved texts / emails that is separate on the phone. You want to do a global search of the phone, again, prepare yourself via google so you are ready to do it when need be.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> That would be so damning.
> 
> There's also a folder with saved texts / emails that is separate on the phone. You want to do a global search of the phone, again, prepare yourself via google so you are ready to do it when need be.


Do you know where folders are kept on BB's? meaning is there an icon on main screen?


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Do you know where folders are kept on BB's? meaning is there an icon on main screen?


There is a steel filing cabinet icon that stores "Files." My filing box icon is under a file folder shaped icon that has a rectangle in the middle with rounded corners. But if you do a global search of the phone, it shouldn't matter where it is.

This may be a long shot, it's just something I wanted to throw out there. Doing a global search of the phone probably takes longer than 2 minutes.

How do you have his cell phone #, BTW? I don't generally have my neighbors' cell #'s, just their landlines (unless they only use wireless service for all calls).


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> There is a steel filing cabinet icon that stores "Files." My filing box icon is under a file folder shaped icon that has a rectangle in the middle with rounded corners. But if you do a global search of the phone, it shouldn't matter where it is.
> 
> This may be a long shot, it's just something I wanted to throw out there. Doing a global search of the phone probably takes longer than 2 minutes.
> 
> How do you have his cell phone #, BTW? I don't generally have my neighbors' cell #'s, just their landlines (unless they only use wireless service for all calls).


oh i sure do have his cell #, and his email addy.


----------



## Gabriel

Anything new, Jerry?


----------



## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Anything new, Jerry?



Listening to VAR now from the last 3 days. Other than her singing the birthday tune from a few weeks ago nothing yet. Still, her singing that on his birthday with no song like that coming up on radio is very, very strange.
trying to get his number to come up on her cell is tough since i have no time. If she is in shower this weekend i can check better. So i assume if i type his number in text or phone a name will come up if she has it in her contacts i assume.


----------



## Mario Kempes

Make sure you delete the call from her call log after you've dialed his number!


----------



## jerry123

Mario Kempes said:


> Make sure you delete the call from her call log after you've dialed his number!


oh yes, i won't actually call it. Just plug number in and see if it has his/or another name that would come up.


----------



## keko

Did you try to get a backup off of her phone?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Did you try to get a backup off of her phone?


no, but i have cord all set and programs on my computer. I need to have phone for at least 5-10 minutes though. That is not possible unless she is in shower or sleeping. Then i need it to be unlocked...


----------



## Mario Kempes

Oh, ok. With my dinosaur phone, I can ring a number and the name of the person I'm calling will show on the screen before it rings on their end. Not a risk worth taking for you at this time, though.


----------



## Almostrecovered

just throwing this out there as I have never used it-

SpoofCard - Caller ID Spoofing, Voice Changing & Call Recording | Prank Calls

call using the spoof of OM's number while you have the phone?


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> no, but i have cord all set and programs on my computer. I need to have phone for at least 5-10 minutes though. That is not possible unless she is in shower or sleeping. Then i need it to be unlocked...


Did you verify the password part on the net? Since all your doing is plugging the cord to both ends, maybe it doesn't require a password.


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> just throwing this out there as I have never used it-
> 
> SpoofCard - Caller ID Spoofing, Voice Changing & Call Recording | Prank Calls
> 
> call using the spoof of OM's number while you have the phone?


Are you saying call her phone using OM's number to see if his name pops up on her phone?


----------



## happyman64

Good Luck this weekend Jerry.

Stay calm.


----------



## Almostrecovered

chapparal said:


> Are you saying call her phone using OM's number to see if his name pops up on her phone?


yes


----------



## warlock07

Ok, next time you both go out, you notice that your phone's battery is dead. or your charger is damaged and you ordered a new one. In the mean time, you ask her the phone a couple of time . See how she reacts when you ask for the phone. If she gives you the password and changes it afterwards -- Red flag. If she is over rotective, redflag. If she does not, you can keep checking on it anyway,


----------



## iheartlife

warlock07 said:


> Ok, next time you both go out, you notice that your phone's battery is dead. or your charger is damaged and you ordered a new one. In the mean time, you ask her the phone a couple of time . See how she reacts when you ask for the phone. If she gives you the password and changes it afterwards -- Red flag. If she is over rotective, redflag. If she does not, you can keep checking on it anyway,


What my WS always did (sorry if I said this already) was, 'sure, let me just quickly check my work emails' every single time, no matter the time of day. because his work includes companies from asia and people who pull all-nighters, I never suspected anything. What he was doing was quickly going into texts and deleting her texts. It only took about 20 seconds and then he'd hand me the phone.


----------



## bestplayer

Ok , I dont know if it has been already suggested but How about asking your friend to call you on wife's phone as your phone is dead or out of battery & your friend needs to talk to you for something very urgent . I dont think she would be able to refuse handing you her phone when your friend calls & asks for you for some serious issue . Then you can start talking & walk away outside (there is no way she can stop you from walking outside while you are discussing something very serious on the phone ) . Move to anywhere where you can view all her texts , pics e.t.c without any disturbence & after that you know what to do .
I dont know about others but to me this seems to be quite feasible solution .

Best of luck .


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Are you saying call her phone using OM's number to see if his name pops up on her phone?


This seems interesting to do. So i goto that site. Type his number as the one i want to come up on ID and see if a name comes along with it.


----------



## jerry123

Ok, update is nothing new. VAR is working good but if she texts him i don't know what they are saying. That birthday song on his birthday is very, very strange to say the least.
Thanks for all the help so far...


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> just throwing this out there as I have never used it-
> 
> SpoofCard - Caller ID Spoofing, Voice Changing & Call Recording | Prank Calls
> 
> call using the spoof of OM's number while you have the phone?


tested it on my phone, worked perfect. I will try tonight.


----------



## Almostrecovered

jerry123 said:


> tested it on my phone, worked perfect. I will try tonight.



the caveat is the she will have a call log that he called


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> the caveat is the she will have a call log that he called


so if i do the spoof call, and his number comes up there is a log of past calls from him?


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> so if i do the spoof call, and his number comes up there is a log of past calls from him?


My call log just shows them serially, i.e., as each call comes in or goes out. Each one separately.

BUT--in my new blackberry that I've had since March, when I go into contacts, at the very bottom there is an activity log for that contact. It shows everything--emails, texts, ingoing and outgoing calls, in reverse chronological order with the newest stuff on top.

Just looking through my contacts,
one friend I only email--I see the last 5 emails between us
myhusband--I see me calling him on the work #, him calling me from his cell, and a text he sent me yesterday, so it's the last 5 activities exchanged with that contact, whatever they may be.


----------



## Almostrecovered

jerry123 said:


> so if i do the spoof call, and his number comes up there is a log of past calls from him?



no Im saying that if you do the spoof call, she may notice that he called at the time (when it was actually you), hopefully they will just think it was a butt dial


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> no Im saying that if you do the spoof call, she may notice that he called at the time (when it was actually you), hopefully they will just think it was a butt dial


What i will do first is a test, delete the number after i call. I want to see if his name comes on the screen. Then, if a name does come up i will call again at another time when she is near her phone and see if she acts weird...


----------



## warlock07

If you can afford it, buy a second hand model and learn how the device works


----------



## jerry123

Update: Got the password to my wife's phone, my son actually told me it. I asked him to look and see what games my wife's phone has on it.
Going to try a backup with the BB software on my PC this weekend. Also, going to try the spoof number. Will be an interesting weekend to say the least...


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck,I hope there is nothing bad going on and nothing to find.

Does anyone know if her email passwords may be on the phone?


----------



## happyman64

Remember Jerry. You have all weekend. Take your time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> Good luck,I hope there is nothing bad going on and nothing to find.
> 
> Does anyone know if her email passwords may be on the phone?


yes, I agree with chap @ this!

As far as email passwords, I just went into BB setup--it's another BB shaped icon with a little cog in front. When you click that, one xhoice is email setup. When you click that, it shows all the email accounts that come to the phone. (Well, that could be interesting if someone had a secret acct.) Anyhow, if you click an account, another page pops up to change the acct settings. There's a list that includes the password, but mine is blank because I didn't check the box below that says show password at the time I set up my phone. Checking the box does nothing after the acct was set up. So you can't find MY email password this way, but maybe you can on hers if she checked that box way back when.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Once i know the password i can see all her emails and if she got a text...
Yes, i have all weekend and now in the mornings i can look on her phone while she takes a shower. I need to get it synced with BB software on my PC. That way i have more time while she is at work...


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> yes, I agree with chap @ this!
> 
> As far as email passwords, I just went into BB setup--it's another BB shaped icon with a little cog in front. When you click that, one xhoice is email setup. When you click that, it shows all the email accounts that come to the phone. (Well, that could be interesting if someone had a secret acct.) Anyhow, if you click an account, another page pops up to change the acct settings. There's a list that includes the password, but mine is blank because I didn't check the box below that says show password at the time I set up my phone. Checking the box does nothing after the acct was set up. So you can't find MY email password this way, but maybe you can on hers if she checked that box way back when.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ok, will look for that.


----------



## Subi

woooohoooo finally.. Good luck jerry. This is getting all very NCIS... I hope she is clean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> ok, will look for that.


What this would give is the ability to check emails via computer, if she has gmail or yahoo, plus if there are secret accts.

But this might be a task for another time, i.e., lower priority.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

jerry123 said:


> Update: Got the password to my wife's phone, my son actually told me it. I asked him to look and see what games my wife's phone has on it.
> Going to try a backup with the BB software on my PC this weekend. Also, going to try the spoof number. Will be an interesting weekend to say the least...



Great though be cautious not to get caught.


----------



## Gabriel

Good luck, Jerry. Here's hoping you find absolutely nothing.


----------



## jerry123

Update: Ok friends...got her password to phone. No text from anyone unless she deleted them, looked through sent emails but only had 3 minutes. Nothing yet. VAR shows nothing yet. Did the spoof call with his number but no name came up, just number. Still, she may not have him in contact list and may just reply after he texts. But have not seen a text come up.

So, another note. I've have not been initiating sex for the past 7 days. Just to see if she does with me. In the past it's been me starting 75% of time. Our sex life from the start of 2012 has been 1 maybe 2 X a week. Also, to describe myself i'm 5-11 and weigh 178. I am 43 and she is 37. Started working out in january and i have managed to look pretty good. My wife only really started to notice 1-2 months ago. She seems to like what i have done with myself because i can tell during sex. So nothing for the past 7 days. 
14 years of marriage... Also, of course after that many years sex could get boring, that is my main concern from the start of all this. She used to give me oral in the past (nov 2011-march 2012), which i enjoy because for years she did not do that. Now she tells me a few weeks ago that oral should only be a special treat and not to expect it all the time. 
The neighbor i suspect acts 18 most of the time. And i think it makes my wife laugh at his stupid jokes or immature behavior. Although, we have not been at his house since super bowl. And he has not come by in about 3 weeks to say hi. She does not ever bring his name up.

I still have that gut feeling something happened last nov. If she is doing something with him now then it may be only a once every few months thing and not much contact in between that. So i will continue with VAR and GPS because that may be my only 2 saving grace.
Thanks all for listening...i won't update until i find something that has proof. No sense bumping this with just updates with nothing but i do appreciate everyones opinion.


----------



## iheartlife

I would go in a different direction, then.

I would get books like the 5 Love Languages, His Needs / Her Needs, and Love Busters. I'd send her the 5 Love Languages link to their questionnaire like it's a fun thing to do, just to be cute. 

Learn how she perceives love being expressed by other people to her (the point of love languages). The idea is that each of us perceives someone else as loving toward us when they express their love in the way we prefer. Except that you might be surprised by her preferences, and that's the point of the book. I found out my husband eats up words of affirmation, and they are as easy as pie to slip into daily conversation. I never forget to thank him now every single time he takes out the trash, etc. Because it's like golden treasure to him to hear me say those words. (I have a friend who would turn her nose up at that and say, well it's HIS JOB to take out the trash! to which I say, I pity her husband!)

Love Busters helps you identify ways that you annoy each other. You probably know the main ones, but then, you might discover something useful.

Showing this attention to the marriage is something that (stereotypically) women eat up with a spoon. Just putting in the effort would probably spice things up.

Good luck, Jerry. It's possible something happened. Your gut is not likely wrong. Maybe it was nothing more than him coming on to her super strong and her deciding it wasn't worth losing you for him. But do not let this eat you alive. You have tried to find evidence and have come up short. I vote to put that same energy into improving your marriage. Best wishes.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I'm relieved that you haven't found anything but the lack of transparency is still very bothersome


----------



## iheartlife

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm relieved that you haven't found anything but the lack of transparency is still very bothersome


Maybe it's time for her to find him and his son playing a video game on her phone on the sofa--and see how she reacts then? Tighter leash on the phone--changing the password, etc. and refusing to let the son use the phone any more?


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> Maybe it's time for her to find him and his son playing a video game on her phone on the sofa--and see how she reacts then? Tighter leash on the phone--changing the password, etc. and refusing to let the son use the phone any more?


good idea...i should ask him to use the video recorder and ask me to send it to his email. And have her walk in seeing me trying to send it.

I've decided to get a marriage book called "for better-the science of a good marriage" and see if she takes the time to read it. She loves to read, and it would be a good test to see if she makes the effort to at least read it. It may tell me a lot if she puts it down and brushes it off. I will tell her i will read it after her.


----------



## lovelygirl

No matter how much she takes the effort to read the book.
Will it undo the cheating? 
No.
Reading the book at this time would be a waste of time for the moment. 
Just find some evidence and confront her when the time comes.


----------



## lovelygirl

double post.


----------



## happyman64

No news is good news Jerry. 

Be vigilant in the future but work on you and the marriage.


----------



## Gabriel

You have three choices.

1) keep checking things and be very suspicious - this will eat you alive, because it could take MONTHS

2) keep checking things out of vigilence but really, let it go and live your life

3) go up to the guy and say, "Okay, #name, you want to tell me what happened with my wife, man to man, or should I bring my wife over so we can all discuss it together?"


If you picked #3 (not saying you necessarily should, just an idea), one of three things will happen

a) he will act shocked and make it seem like you made a mistake in saying that to him. If that happens, you can say, "hahahaha, gotcha!! I'm just f*cking with you! You should see your face! That's for telling me she has a nice body for not working out."

b) he will get dejected, look down and say, "Yeah, we should talk."

c) he will say, "You should talk to your wife."

B and C confirm what your gut is telling you. A would take some fancy talking.

I just can't see doing #1 for very long. It would be torture.


----------



## jerry123

lovelygirl said:


> No matter how much she takes the effort to read the book.
> Will it undo the cheating?
> No.
> Reading the book at this time would be a waste of time for the moment.
> Just find some evidence and confront her when the time comes.


i know what you mean, but it's sort of a test. If she says she has no time then i will grab the book back and tell her i am going to read it then. Small things like her reaction to me asking her to read the book may give me an idea of where our marriage is heading.


----------



## Beowulf

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm relieved that you haven't found anything but the lack of transparency is still very bothersome


If he and his wife read the His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters books the transparency issue will need to be explored because Dr. Harley stresses his Policy Of Radical Honesty and No Privacy in a marriage very heavily. It will give Jerry the opportunity to broach that subject without appearing insecure.


----------



## bandit.45

Take this time to be getting your resume together and be doing some job hunting. 

Sorry brother, but IMO you need to quit the SAHD business and get out from under your wife's support. 

Change the dynamic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

bandit.45 said:


> Take this time to be getting your resume together and be doing some job hunting.
> 
> Sorry brother, but IMO you need to quit the SAHD business and get out from under your wife's support.
> 
> *Change the dynamic.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That needed to be repeated.


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Take this time to be getting your resume together and be doing some job hunting.
> 
> Sorry brother, but IMO you need to quit the SAHD business and get out from under your wife's support.
> 
> Change the dynamic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not to sound like you have no clue what a SAHD does, i work 7 days a week, 365 days a year with no vaca or time off. And get paid nothing. My kids have my full attention and i know they are safe. If you've never done it you can't say get out from under your wifes support. 
I hate it sometimes,the stress/kids fighting/apts to run to/dance for my daughter.... but like any job, it's my job. I cook, clean, laundry, give kids baths, make sure bills are paid so she can have the high paying job she has. If it were not for me, she would not be where she is.

No offense, just wanted to let off steam...


----------



## PHTlump

Jerry. Nobody said you don't work hard. Being a SAHD has its advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are that you spend time with your kids. You raise them exactly the way you want them raised. One of the disadvantages is that women aren't very attracted to SAHDs. So, you're at greater risk of your wife having an affair with a man who works outside the house.

Whether you continue to be a SAHD is up to you. Bandit and Beowulf were just trying to make you aware of the inherent risk involved.


----------



## Beowulf

jerry123 said:


> Not to sound like you have no clue what a SAHD does, i work 7 days a week, 365 days a year with no vaca or time off. And get paid nothing. My kids have my full attention and i know they are safe. If you've never done it you can't say get out from under your wifes support.
> I hate it sometimes,the stress/kids fighting/apts to run to/dance for my daughter.... but like any job, it's my job. I cook, clean, laundry, give kids baths, make sure bills are paid so she can have the high paying job she has. If it were not for me, she would not be where she is.
> 
> No offense, just wanted to let off steam...


I fully respect that what you do is not easy and furthermore commendable on its face. But it is a biological fact that women in general do not respect their man unless he is out there earning and bringing home a paycheck. If you reverse the roles most of the time it doesn't work because it conflicts with basic biological drives. Men can respect SAHM but few women can respect SAHD.


----------



## bandit.45

I realise your job is just as important as hers and every bit as stressful. Everyone who has posted would agree. But does your wife agree?

Monetary power is everything. Right now she has all the power. She has all the clout. 

You need a backup plan and some irons in the fire if this whole situation goes south on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

jerry123 said:


> Not to sound like you have no clue what a SAHD does, i work 7 days a week, 365 days a year with no vaca or time off. And get paid nothing. My kids have my full attention and i know they are safe. If you've never done it you can't say get out from under your wifes support.
> I hate it sometimes,the stress/kids fighting/apts to run to/dance for my daughter.... but like any job, it's my job. I cook, clean, laundry, give kids baths, make sure bills are paid so she can have the high paying job she has. If it were not for me, she would not be where she is.
> 
> No offense, just wanted to let off steam...


Women tend to complain when men don't do housework/play a fatherly role. However their respect for you goes completely down the drain when you proactively do those things. It's incredibly baffling as is the female species. 

We're not saying it to put you down, it's just a bizarre fact.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Beowulf said:


> Men can respect SAHM but few women can respect SAHD.


so youre saying he needs to change because she's sexist?


----------



## lovelygirl

Complexity said:


> Women tend to complain when men don't do housework/play a fatherly role. However their respect for you goes completely down the drain when you proactively do those things. It's incredibly baffling as is the female species.
> 
> We're not saying it to put you down, it's just a bizarre fact.


If he's still the guy she married and fell in love with, then why does it matter if he's a SAHD or a workaholic man.
If she disrespects her man because of this then there's no point in talking about love.


----------



## Complexity

lovelygirl said:


> If he's still the guy she married and fell in love with, then why does it matter if he's a SAHD or a workaholic man.
> If she disrespects her man because of this then there's no point in talking about love.


It doesn't really matter, women tend to lose respect for a guy if he's "too nice" (someone's gonna have to explain that one) if he's too BETA, if he's a stay at home dad like jerry etc Love has nothing to do with it, they "love" them but not _in_ love because you can't technically love someone you don't respect.


----------



## PHTlump

lovelygirl said:


> If he's still the guy she married and fell in love with, then why does it matter if he's a SAHD or a workaholic man.
> If she disrespects her man because of this then there's no point in talking about love.


He's only been a SAHD for roughly half of their marriage. The first half, he worked. It's very possible that him losing his income has gradually decreased her attraction to him. It would be natural.

Honestly, wouldn't a man making $100k a year have better luck with the ladies than a man making $20k a year, or an unemployed man? It's natural for women to care about income.

It would be a similar dynamic if he was in great shape when they married, but he's gradually gained 100 lbs. She may still love him. But, she's not going to be as attracted to him. If there is a neighbor who looks like her husband used to, and he's flirting with her, she may be weak enough to cheat.

That doesn't mean that people who don't work, or who are heavy, are worth less than others. They're just less attractive to women. In order to maximize his attractiveness to his wife, the OP is going to have to understand what she is attracted to.


----------



## lovelygirl

Yeah I understand your point - Complexity & PHTlump.

Now that I recall, I used to date a guy who was jobless. This was a turn off for me. The way he used to spend his day made me lose respect for him. But that was also related to the fact that I didn't really like him in the first place so it's a bit complicated. Apart from being jobless, he wasn't really good at anything.

While the OP is a house-husband and I think he should be respected for the man he has become by taking care of the kids and the house. It's hard to find men like these.
But I guess every woman has a different point of view in men.


----------



## lovelygirl

double post.


----------



## keko

Jerry, are you working out? At least try to stay in shape.


----------



## iheartlife

I think he said recently he's gotten into shape.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

It's all a continuum. Quitting your job in order to be a SAHD won't take a man from an 8 to a 0. But it might take him from an 8 to a 6. If his wife was a 7, then she may slowly change her view of her marriage from being lucky to be with Jerry, to seeing Jerry as lucky to be with her. And that can be enough to put a real damper on attraction. It's subtle. But, it's real.


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Not to sound like you have no clue what a SAHD does, i work 7 days a week, 365 days a year with no vaca or time off. And get paid nothing. My kids have my full attention and i know they are safe. If you've never done it you can't say get out from under your wifes support.
> I hate it sometimes,the stress/kids fighting/apts to run to/dance for my daughter.... but like any job, it's my job. I cook, clean, laundry, give kids baths, make sure bills are paid so she can have the high paying job she has. If it were not for me, she would not be where she is.
> 
> No offense, just wanted to let off steam...


No one says ist not a hard job, even harder than most. The problem is, no matter what they say, women cannot respect a man who is not a provider. It is hard wired into our DNA. You can argue, you can parse it. Women unconciously pick the males they mate with. Get "Married Man Sex Life" this should be your first priority. 

This is the resason men are always saying "can you believe she would go out with him". Thats why good women are constantly bedding the bad boy. A stay at home dad is the opposite of an alpha male. Look at the research. And not the politically correct sh!t.

I couldn't even get a response from my wife about sahds, she just looked at me like I had lost my mind. And if you think your wife considers the help you have provided for her career advancement, well, any babysitter could have done that. And I guarantee the OM is joking to her about you behind your back.

I repeat, read "Married Man Sex Life" now.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Hard wired into DNA? Prove it


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> Update: GPS was normal and i am listening to VAR now. I know it will take more than 1 recording but i am eager to find out.
> 
> In the past she has tried to act superior to me in front of people. I took care of that after a nice long talk last year. She makes really good money but it still does not give her the right to think she can walk all over me...I am a reason why she is where she is...


She at one time was acting superior because she thinks you are inferrior. She may have quit acting like it, but she hasn't quit thinking it.

It isn't sexist to think like that. While men and women are equal they aren't the same......thank God.


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> Hard wired into DNA? Prove it


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Are you telling me you haven't noticed?


----------



## Beowulf

Almostrecovered said:


> so youre saying he needs to change because she's sexist?


If he wants to remain a SAHD than I can respect that. The question is can his wife respect that. If she can't then she won't be able to love him and he'll have to change regardless.

If you've read anything by Athol Kay you know for several years he was a SAHD as well. But he continued to demand respect from his wife regardless of their roles. And his wife didn't lose the respect for him even though their roles were not traditional. He also admits it was very difficult to stay in a leadership role while depending on his wife to support the family. But respect is the key. If Jerry's wife is being deceptive and not showing him respect it doesn't matter how good a SAHD he is. And that must be corrected somehow or the marriage will suffer.


----------



## Beowulf

Almostrecovered said:


> Hard wired into DNA? Prove it


Read any book by Helen Fisher.


----------



## lordmayhem

Otherwise known as hypergamy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

lordmayhem said:


> Otherwise known as hypergamy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is hypergamy in action. She wants the typical alpha male provider type but wants him to want her.

Kimbra - "Cameo Lover" [Official Music Video] - YouTube


----------



## bandit.45

I wasn't trying to start a gender war guys. 

I just think Jerry needs to have some options to fall back on if this situation goes bad. I just don't see her giving in, moving out or giving up the house if he proves there was an A. In fact, I could see her being downright nasty and using all of her resources to send him down sh*t creek.


----------



## lovelygirl

Beowulf said:


> If he wants to remain a SAHD than I can respect that. The question is can his wife respect that. If she can't then she won't be able to love him and he'll have to change regardless.
> 
> If you've read anything by Athol Kay you know for several years he was a SAHD as well. But he continued to demand respect from his wife regardless of their roles. And his wife didn't lose the respect for him even though their roles were not traditional. He also admits it was very difficult to stay in a leadership role while depending on his wife to support the family. *But respect is the key*. If Jerry's wife is being deceptive and not showing him respect it doesn't matter how good a SAHD he is. And that must be corrected somehow or the marriage will suffer.


Truer words couldn't be said!!!

Maybe Jerry should be more demanding and firm.
After all, (if I'm not wrong) his wife works there because of him. She should be constantly reminded of this.


----------



## bandit.45

Successful people, both men and, women often forget the people who helped them become successful: namely their spouses. The only time a spouse gets any acknowledgment is at awards banquets, otherwise their contributions are usually taken for granted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Alyosha

I am very glad that Jerry has found no evidence of an affair.

This neighbor sounds like your typical pud pounding d-bag. It would be ridiculous to let someone like that get into your head and affect your life in any significant way. 

Ignore him and live your life with your wife on your own terms. Be happy. Be confident. Be thankful. Be you. 

If ultimately your wife doesn't want that (and there is no evidence of that), someone else will.

It's a win-win, baby!


----------



## jerry123

Alyosha said:


> I am very glad that Jerry has found no evidence of an affair.
> 
> This neighbor sounds like your typical pud pounding d-bag. It would be ridiculous to let someone like that get into your head and affect your life in any significant way.
> 
> Ignore him and live your life with your wife on your own terms. Be happy. Be confident. Be thankful. Be you.
> 
> If ultimately your wife doesn't want that (and there is no evidence of that), someone else will.
> 
> It's a win-win, baby!


Lot's of funny posts here...ok, i've decided to get the book "the married man sex life. Downloading now on iphone. It does talk alot of a woman needs to respect a man to give him a good sex life. That's what i need to make her do. She keeps saying in the past she respects me as a SAHD but of course she would not come out and say she does NOT respect me. So i hope the book helps.

Gave her a marriage book last night, told her i want both of us to read it. She was very receptive about the idea. I also told her we both need to start respecting each others roles better. I said i know she works and brings home the money and i respect that. I also told her i do things here so she can have a good job and the kids are safe. 

Reading the married man sex life now...thanks all, i will update in the future.


----------



## iheartlife

:smthumbup:

I know you're not out of the woods but I'm glad to hear her positive reaction.


----------



## jerry123

iheartlife said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> I know you're not out of the woods but I'm glad to hear her positive reaction.


Book "the marriage man sex life" so far tells me a lot...i even emailed her just now to tell her i want to go back to work, even part time if possible. 

Yeah, and in the marriage book i gave her there is a section that tells about how any affair will ruin a marriage. See if that sparks something.


----------



## ArabianKnight

Did you pull any phone logs yet? or on her computer or VAR?
have you installed the GPS monitoring.


----------



## jerry123

ArabianKnight said:


> Did you pull any phone logs yet? or on her computer or VAR?
> have you installed the GPS monitoring.


Yes, been doing the GPS for 1 month and VAR has shown nothing yet...i don't have time to sync phone with PC. I've just been looking at emails. nothing much yet. Does not help with the fact i think something happened last november and i had no GPS or VAR then.


----------



## Shaggy

I wonder if he made a pass, she went along a bit, and then backed off?

Does she seem weird around him now?

You could casually mention sometime that you've seen him leering at her and how that made you uncomfortable about him and see her reaction. You want to be able to see her eyes and face when you it. See if she tenses up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jerry123

Shaggy said:


> I wonder if he made a pass, she went along a bit, and then backed off?
> 
> Does she seem weird around him now?
> 
> You could casually mention sometime that you've seen him leering at her and how that made you uncomfortable about him and see her reaction. You want to be able to see her eyes and face when you it. See if she tenses up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Back in November i did ask her if he ever made a pass at her. I was watching her reaction...she stopped doing what she was doing and shook her head after thinking for 2-3 seconds and said no. I said well he is sometimes talking sexual when they both are around. Funny thing was, he stopped acting that way after i said that to her. Which kind of caught me off guard and i started to do more digging...
We don't see him much since there has been no parties/get togethers. But there is one coming up in a few weeks.


----------



## bandit.45

jerry123 said:


> I also told her i do things here so she can have a good job and the kids are safe.


Jerry what was your occupation before? Can you do consulting work out of the home?


----------



## jerry123

bandit.45 said:


> Jerry what was your occupation before? Can you do consulting work out of the home?


I was a tool and die maker...the place i left would take me back. I just told her this morning i may go back to work. 

Man, this book i'm reading is text book our marriage. She tries to be the dominating one a lot. Which in turns makes her less interested in me. should have got the book 6 months ago.


----------



## happyman64

Jerry,

Keep reading. Apply what you are learning.

Stay vigilant in your marriage.

And communicate with your wife everyday.

I agree with going to work as long as your kids are safe and loved.

Step it up in your marriage. I am sure your wife will approve of the changes and come along for the journey.

Good Luck and Keep in Touch Buddy.

HM64


----------



## jerry123

I will, yes the book basically tells you to be the dominant one. They actually like that (the wife)...i currently plan on not initiating sex for a while. Be more assertive with her but at the same time a great dad, which in turn would make her want me more. Then i will see if she truly wants me as a husband or wants to stick with doing what she wants with OM. It also says if a wife is cheating she covers it up better than a man. So i will stick to VAR/GPS...


----------



## bandit.45

I like the approach you are taking. Lay low, do the manning up program and stay vigilant. Good plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

jerry123 said:


> I will, yes the book basically tells you to be the dominant one. They actually like that (the wife)...i currently plan on not initiating sex for a while. Be more assertive with her but at the same time a great dad, which in turn would make her want me more. Then i will see if she truly wants me as a husband or wants to stick with doing what she wants with OM. It also says if a wife is cheating she covers it up better than a man. So i will stick to VAR/GPS...


That book is eye opening isn't it. You sound like you're on the right track.


----------



## jerry123

Beowulf said:


> That book is eye opening isn't it. You sound like you're on the right track.


Yeah, but it sucks that men have to be this way to get his wife to have normal sex. You would think 2 people who get married would respect the other one no matter what. I guess I will have to follow books advice and see what come of it. I emailed the author for some tips on staying the course since he is a stay at home dad also I think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

jerry123 said:


> Yeah, but it sucks that men have to be this way to get his wife to have normal sex. You would think 2 people who get married would respect the other one no matter what. I guess I will have to follow books advice and see what come of it. I emailed the author for some tips on staying the course since he is a stay at home dad also I think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you`re talking about Athol Kay he just gave notice at his job.

The book you`re reading has allowed him to do so through it`s popularity.

He`ll tell you it`s a marital death sentence to be a SAHD and to get gainfully employed ASAP>


----------



## Beowulf

tacoma said:


> If you`re talking about Athol Kay he just gave notice at his job.
> 
> The book you`re reading has allowed him to do so through it`s popularity.
> 
> He`ll tell you it`s a marital death sentence to be a SAHD and to get gainfully employed ASAP>


That will probably be his advice long term but short term he can advise Jerry on how to establish a frame of leadership while being a SAHD. Athol Kay was a SAHD for a while and maintained that frame.


----------



## Beowulf

jerry123 said:


> Yeah, but it sucks that men have to be this way to get his wife to have normal sex. You would think 2 people who get married would respect the other one no matter what. I guess I will have to follow books advice and see what come of it. I emailed the author for some tips on staying the course since he is a stay at home dad also I think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The world has changed my friend and we all have to change to keep up with it.


----------



## Chaparral

You can't fight biology. LOL I was reading the book today at lunch. OM was wescribed just like you described him. JOking about sex, acting like a player and a guy the women say they can't stand but can't help but go down on him. I think its in chapter 4.

Does he like to be hands on around the women in your circle?

This is like the guy in Swede's thread too.

Every male should have to read this book.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> You can't fight biology. LOL I was reading the book today at lunch. OM was wescribed just like you described him. JOking about sex, acting like a player and a guy the women say they can't stand but can't help but go down on him. I think its in chapter 4.
> 
> Does he like to be hands on around the women in your circle?
> 
> This is like the guy in Swede's thread too.
> 
> Every male should have to read this book.


Well, first let me say to people who have not read from start. I just suspect this guy and wife may have had something going on.
Yes, last year at a few parties he likes to be center of attraction around women and joke about sex. We have not been to their house since super bowl. 
And ever since i was cold to him for the last 3-4 weeks, he does not come around and has not really stopped by for no reason. Hence, him thinking i know something happened or is happening. And trust me, this is not like him.
And even after seeing him at end of street and talking to him it seems like he knows i know something but was talking to him for 10 minutes but not saying a word about it...i hope it's eating him inside that i may confront his wife.


----------



## the guy

For now, I think its a big plus you put a "check" on him and he no longer comes around. 

You have your tools in place and you're do a fine job in protecting your marriage

Good luck to you sir.


----------



## Chaparral

One possibility is they are laying low, if you assume they were doing something, because they think you suspect something.

It would be great if you could get her deleted texts for November when you download her phone info.

Does she take her phoine to the bathroom or any other place in the house away from everyone? Another VAR may be in order. 

Have you mentioned OM to your wife in any context? Did you mention you saw him the other day and talked to him? Her reaction/non reaction might be interesting.

You might also wonder out loud why you haven't been seeing him around lately and ask her if she has seen him.

Can you hear her talking to anyone at the school drop off? You would think they would be taliking there. You might ask your son if he ever sees him at the dropoff. She may beparanoid about talking in the car. One wayward keylogged her husbands computer. LOL

ON a 1 - 10 scale, how certain are you that something is/did happen between the two of them?


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> One possibility is they are laying low, if you assume they were doing something, because they think you suspect something.
> 
> It would be great if you could get her deleted texts for November when you download her phone info.
> 
> Does she take her phoine to the bathroom or any other place in the house away from everyone? Another VAR may be in order.
> 
> Have you mentioned OM to your wife in any context? Did you mention you saw him the other day and talked to him? Her reaction/non reaction might be interesting.
> 
> You might also wonder out loud why you haven't been seeing him around lately and ask her if she has seen him.
> 
> Can you hear her talking to anyone at the school drop off? You would think they would be taliking there. You might ask your son if he ever sees him at the dropoff. She may beparanoid about talking in the car. One wayward keylogged her husbands computer. LOL
> 
> ON a 1 - 10 scale, how certain are you that something is/did happen between the two of them?


I drop them off at bus, she works from 7-5. She never talks on her phone at home or in car since VAR confirmed this. Have not mentioned talking to him the other day or do i mention his name for any reason. Kind of waiting to see if she brings him up. But the book i'm reading says women are much smarter than guys when it comes to this. They have an edge in hiding an affair. 
She has no idea of VAR/GPS because if she did i would hear about it.
Blackberry texts are gone once deleted. I am focusing on emails now, also sent/deleted emails. 
But strange thing about BB, i am having a hard time finding a link to deleted emails. It will show sent/saved but have not seen deleted when i check email folder but i am still learning BB.

oh, and at this point i am a 7/8 something happened at least once. But i have no proof and have not even asked her once. If they are talking/emailing then her had to have told her he suspects i may know something and if that is the case, both are very nervous.


----------



## keko

Not saying it is but can it be that they scheduled it beforehand and are keeping it a secret in terms of texting/calling etc.?

Is your wife ever swaying from her routine drive? Anything that would raise suspicions? Like 1 hour to buy some milk, etc.?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Not saying it is but can it be that they scheduled it beforehand and are keeping it a secret in terms of texting/calling etc.?
> 
> Is your wife ever swaying from her routine drive? Anything that would raise suspicions? Like 1 hour to buy some milk, etc.?


it could be, but no VAR/GPS is showing going to work then coming home. If she takes a trip to a store then it shows her going to that store and no phone calls since VAR confirms this. 
But yes, they could have the every 1-2 months of no contact then it would only take 1 email to say meet at a certain place. But i only will have proof if i stay with it till they mess up.


----------



## keko

You have a keylogger installed right? No secret emails?


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> You have a keylogger installed right? No secret emails?


No keylogger on our PC since she never uses it because she has her phone and a work computer. I know since i am at home 95% of time she is. 

Trust me, if she is doing anything it is being well hidden. I will be checking her password on her phone to see if she has changed it. 

The funny thing is it's him (supposed OM) that is showing signs of EA with my wife. He seems easy to break down via cold shoulder and acting like i know. I swear he has trouble talking to me and even coming over randomly to chit chat. Those are the red flags for me....


----------



## keko

Does she bring the work computer into house and uses it?


----------



## jerry123

Also, i see 17,300 people have viewed this post. It just amazes me that some of those viewers may be in my shoes for sure. Or they are just waiting for me to say "it has been confirmed". Don't worry, i will post a thread if i do find out anything. Great forum!!


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Does she bring the work computer into house and uses it?


oh no, it is a PC at her work. I am still hopeful i can get her BB to sync to my PC someday i have a good 30 minutes to do it.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> Also, i see 17,300 people have viewed this post. It just amazes me that some of those viewers may be in my shoes for sure. Or they are just waiting for me to say "it has been confirmed". Don't worry, i will post a thread if i do find out anything. Great forum!!


Because you actually DO something. Most others just sit, watch and b***h about their WS.


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> oh no, it is a PC at her work. I am still hopeful i can get her BB to sync to my PC someday i have a good 30 minutes to do it.


Not a red flag but its a possibility she might use it for another email account. 

I still suggest you install a free keylogger to the computer for "just incase"


----------



## jerry123

keko said:


> Not a red flag but its a possibility she might use it for another email account.
> 
> I still suggest you install a free keylogger to the computer for "just incase"


I would if i seen her at the PC, but i know where she is in our house and she never goes on it. Trust me, she comes home and eats dinner i made then goes up and watches her shows for an hour or so. Never gets to our PC.


----------



## Shaggy

Could they meet for lunch
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

jerry123 said:


> Well, first let me say to people who have not read from start. I just suspect this guy and wife may have had something going on.
> Yes, last year at a few parties he likes to be center of attraction around women and joke about sex. We have not been to their house since super bowl.
> And ever since i was cold to him for the last 3-4 weeks, he does not come around and has not really stopped by for no reason. Hence, him thinking i know something happened or is happening. And trust me, this is not like him.
> And even after seeing him at end of street and talking to him it seems like he knows i know something but was talking to him for 10 minutes but not saying a word about it...i hope it's eating him inside that i may confront his wife.


I agree with your plan going forward, but I had a couple of observations about the background. The way you describe the neighbor does make it seem like he could be the opportunist player type, but we don't often talk about the tactics guys like this use, or how others, like you, can pick up on what's going on well before your wife allows it to go too far. Unfortunately, I grew up with a dad who was good at this.

It's often about establishing a preliminary relationship around some small secret that your wife would be reluctant to admit, because she might not even see it for what it is. When I say relationship, I'm not talking about a sexual relationship necessarily. When you have a coworker who depends on you for information, this is a relationship. Or a neighbor. If this guy is the player type, he would at some point try to create a secret between him and your wife that effectively disconnects his relationship with you, in a sense. Maybe it was a simple as the one time he slipped up and admitted that she was an incredibly desirable woman, and then he apologized, saying that he will try to be better, even though it is hard. Suddenly, your wife is hiding an event that connects her to this guy. He can use this "atmosphere of secrecy" to begin talking about you in a way that isn't really neutral, but more like framing you as the person outside of this relationship. If your wife is responsive, pushing that boundary more and more can become addictive to her, allowing him to get away with more.

Given this, do you understand why you may have sensed something improper in the conversations you overheard, while it is possible that it didn't go further because he sensed that you were on to him? Not saying that it didn't go further, but that you will pick up on this well before it develops further, if it does. You sense him coming between you and your wife in social settings.

I have to admit that I'm pretty forceful with these types. The moment he made the first sexual reference in her presence, or verbalized that he admired her shape, I would've cut the guy off cleanly, and in a way that embarrassed him. You can tell him that you don't want to have a problem with him, but you WILL have a problem if he ever makes a sexual reference about your wife again. She can even hear it.

Over time, your efforts to gather more information about the depth of their relationship might not go anywhere. Not suggesting that you shouldn't keep looking, but don't let this dominate you, or take away from who you are as a man. In the end, going to her with your doubts would probably be pointless unless you have more. Only leverage point you might have could be to consider telling her that you are hearing comments about what this guy is boasting about doing with her, but even this might not get you anywhere.


----------



## Chaparral

Yes this. I think you should be giving a lot of thought to how to act around this guy. How do you match up physically with him?

When the party comes around, do you act like nothing has happened, do you keep an eye on him, do you make it obvious you're watching him like a hawk, do you hint what you would do to an interloper? 

Anyone have any suggestions?

Do you have any ideas about how he gets along with his wife? I would make an exceptional effort to befriend her while keeping a close eye on him and your wife. I would see if I could make him jealous and find out if they have had any cheating problems before.

How does his wife view his talking about sex with all of you? Is she jealous?

Sorry to ramble. LOL


----------



## cledus_snow

i think maybe a PI is in order, now. 

if she was doing anything, she's definetly gonna lie low and take it underground.


----------



## Chaparral

cledus_snow said:


> i think maybe a PI is in order, now.
> 
> if she was doing anything, she's definetly gonna lie low and take it underground.


One poster hired a PI and the PI found nothing. He kept at it himself and finally got all the info. Wasn't too long ago but I can't remember who it was. 

If they are communicating regularly it must be the work email, etc.

I would consider keylogging the home computer, disabling her phone for the weekend ( Battery,misplacing it, something) and try to catch the password to her work email if she logs in from home. She might ask to use your phone and maybe you could get the password then.

Could they be going out to lunch together? One of those pen VARs in the purse might work. LOL


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> One poster hired a PI and the PI found nothing. He kept at it himself and finally got all the info. Wasn't too long ago but I can't remember who it was.
> 
> If they are communicating regularly it must be the work email, etc.
> 
> I would consider keylogging the home computer, disabling her phone for the weekend ( Battery,misplacing it, something) and try to catch the password to her work email if she logs in from home. She might ask to use your phone and maybe you could get the password then.
> 
> Could they be going out to lunch together? One of those pen VARs in the purse might work. LOL


talked to her tonight about a few things...tomorrow night i will lay out why i feel she may have cheated. I at least got out of her that she thinks i think she is just a paycheck to me. Told her we need to talk to a someone and she agreed. I will see her reaction when i ask about neighbor. 
Trust me, i will still use VAR/GPS and not tell her about that. I would be stupid to think nothing may be going on after i let her know all the red flags. If she still says nothing happened last year then i will have to take her word but now at least if something is going on i will have a backup.
thanks so much everyone!!


----------



## keko

jerry123 said:


> talked to her tonight about a few things...tomorrow night i will lay out why i feel she may have cheated. I at least got out of her that she thinks i think she is just a paycheck to me. Told her we need to talk to a someone and she agreed. I will see her reaction when i ask about neighbor.
> Trust me, i will still use VAR/GPS and not tell her about that. I would be stupid to think nothing may be going on after i let her know all the red flags. If she still says nothing happened last year then i will have to take her word but now at least if something is going on i will have a backup.
> thanks so much everyone!!


Does she go out for lunch? Regularly? Same place?


----------



## happyman64

Wow Jerry,

It sounds like your wife has some animosity towards you.

What prompted the conversation?

Who initiated the conversation?

HM64


----------



## cledus_snow

if she's as smart as he "claims" she is and knows he's on to her, it could be a looong time before he finds out the truth.

he just gave up the element of surprise. if she is guilty of cheating, the only way to catch her now is to monitor her movement. obviously, he can't do this with the kids in toe. 

he needs someone to take up this task.


keylogger and all the other surveillence don't mean diddly, if he has no access to her communications devices.

the only thing that has a chance is the VAR.

this is s toguh one.


i still say she gave herself away with the "you have no proof" counter. why would she say that?


----------



## Chaparral

happyman64 said:


> Wow Jerry,
> 
> It sounds like your wife has some animosity towards you.
> 
> What prompted the conversation?
> 
> Who initiated the conversation?
> 
> HM64


I bet she has noticed his demeanor no matter how hard he has been tyring to be normal. Him telling her he wa going to get a job may have scared her. She may think he is thinking of leaving her. Both spouses suspecting the other.. Maybe she has been spying on op. 

Unless she is bluffing about her just being a paycheck, it sounds like intimacy is sorely lacking.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> talked to her tonight about a few things...tomorrow night i will lay out why i feel she may have cheated. I at least got out of her that she thinks i think she is just a paycheck to me. Told her we need to talk to a someone and she agreed. I will see her reaction when i ask about neighbor.
> Trust me, i will still use VAR/GPS and not tell her about that. I would be stupid to think nothing may be going on after i let her know all the red flags. If she still says nothing happened last year then i will have to take her word but now at least if something is going on i will have a backup.
> thanks so much everyone!!


Sounds like the first step. Do you think she was open and honest with you tonight ? Do you feel better or worse now? How do you think she feels? Did her anger go down from last night when you accused her -- or was she still pissed off at you ?? Whatever happens I wish you the best and hope whatever the truth is will help your internal suffering to seize. Expect the worst tomorrow -- and hope for the best. Just be strong no matter what is said. When you say "Told her we need to talk to a someone and she agreed" did you mean a therapist or your neighbor ??


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Sounds like the first step. Do you think she was open and honest with you tonight ? Do you feel better or worse now? How do you think she feels? Did her anger go down from last night when you accused her -- or was she still pissed off at you ?? Whatever happens I wish you the best and hope whatever the truth is will help your internal suffering to seize. Expect the worst tomorrow -- and hope for the best. Just be strong no matter what is said. When you say "Told her we need to talk to a someone and she agreed" did you mean a therapist or your neighbor ??


I think she was somewhat open, but she wants to know why i feel this way. Telling her i want to get a job made her surprised and she said thats fine if you want to but i prefer you stay home. Which i reply, i prefer to get a job.
I feel a little better, just keep thinking of all the ways this neighbor was talking it up last year and i should have stopped it. I now see is ploy was to come out with his "Sex talk" and get reaction then proceed from there as to what kind of reaction he gets back.


----------



## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Wow Jerry,
> 
> It sounds like your wife has some animosity towards you.
> 
> What prompted the conversation?
> 
> Who initiated the conversation?
> 
> HM64


maybe...but i am a great dad to our kids. Maybe not the best husband when it comes to talking to my wife, which i told her last night. I know the book i am reading "the married mans life" says that is a good part (dad) but i need to also be a dominant figure to her. Which i will be doing starting now...

So we are going to talk to a therapist soon, question is should we go everytime together or after a few times together and a few times by myself.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Sounds like the first step. Do you think she was open and honest with you tonight ? Do you feel better or worse now? How do you think she feels? Did her anger go down from last night when you accused her -- or was she still pissed off at you ?? Whatever happens I wish you the best and hope whatever the truth is will help your internal suffering to seize. Expect the worst tomorrow -- and hope for the best. Just be strong no matter what is said. When you say "Told her we need to talk to a someone and she agreed" did you mean a therapist or your neighbor ??


A therapist...


----------



## Chaparral

Any time you are around your neighbor I think you should be ready to be very agressive with him. Have no qualms about quashing any flirtation around you with your wife or anybody elses wife/daughter. You don't need him as a friend and he clearly sees himself as a player.

Have/will you bring his actions up to your wife?

You may tell her you have you supected she might be cheating with out telling her who with if you are gioing to bring it up. I'm not sure you should bring it up yet. If you get therapy (mc)you might ask the therapist (in private) to ask her, in front of you, if she has cheated. LOL, google signs of lying before you ask!


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Any time you are around your neighbor I think you should be ready to be very agressive with him. Have no qualms about quashing any flirtation around you with your wife or anybody elses wife/daughter. You don't need him as a friend and he clearly sees himself as a player.
> 
> Have/will you bring his actions up to your wife?
> 
> You may tell her you have you supected she might be cheating with out telling her who with if you are gioing to bring it up. I'm not sure you should bring it up yet. If you get therapy (mc)you might ask the therapist (in private) to ask her, in front of you, if she has cheated. LOL, google signs of lying before you ask!


yes, tonight i will. Thing is, once i gave him the cold shoulder a few weeks ago he totally has acted like i know something is up...that is what puzzles me the most. We will see how he acts after i talk to my wife. If she tells him what i am going to tell her tonight then there is no way he can act normal.


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck, I truly hope there is nothing going on. Make sure you have Vars in place. It may be helpful to use one when you are talking to her. Remember to watch for signs she is lying. If she happens to come up with something like, he would be the last person in the world blah blah look especially hard for signs.


----------



## Chaparral

You might want a VAR in the bathroom/car after your talk.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> You might want a VAR in the bathroom/car after your talk.


it will be late, var will be in car the next day.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Good luck, I truly hope there is nothing going on. Make sure you have Vars in place. It may be helpful to use one when you are talking to her. Remember to watch for signs she is lying. If she happens to come up with something like, he would be the last person in the world blah blah look especially hard for signs.


Ok, good idea...so what other than her pulling her arms in tightly to her self and what you mentioned should i look for?


----------



## Chaparral

HA Ha Looking down and away is the one I can remeber. Playing with hair, wait, I think that means she likes you. You better google how to tell if someones lying.

Don't look away from her either. Keep as much eye contact on her as possible. You can pick up a lot that way especially at crucial times.

Good luck


----------



## iheartlife

jerry123 said:


> Ok, good idea...so what other than her pulling her arms in tightly to her self and what you mentioned should i look for?


Well, here's an article from Real Simple Magazine

How to Tell If Someone Is Lying | RealSimple.com

A Person’s Demeanor or Voice Radically Changes
As an investigator, I first try to assess how someone normally speaks. To do that, I begin an interview by asking questions that I know the answers to, like “What’s your full name?” or “Where do you live?” Some folks are naturally animated and talk fast; others are more subdued. Once I know which type of talker a person is, I start asking him questions that I don’t know the answer to. If his manner shifts abruptly—going from calm to agitated or lively to mellow—chances are he’s not telling the truth.
--Gregg McCrary, a retired FBI criminal profiler and a crime analyst in Fredericksburg, Virginia


A Person Avoids Saying “I”
In my research, I’ve discovered that when people fib about themselves, they tend to use I and me less often than people who are being truthful. Instead, they’ll speak about themselves in the third person (“This is a girl who loves to ski”) or even truncate their language (“Really into listening to jazz”)—anything to give themselves psychological distance from the lie.
--Jeffrey Han**** is an associate professor of communication at Cornell University who studies online lying. 

A Person Has an Answer for Everything
Ask most people what they were doing last week and they’ll have to pause and think about it. That’s even more true of teenagers, who generally don’t have the capacity to tell an elaborate story on the fly. So when I call a child into my office and he seems totally rehearsed—there’s zero hesitation before he answers a question—well, that’s a dead giveaway.
--Julia Chung has been an educator for 16 years, first as a high school teacher in Los Angeles and now as an assistant principal in Westchester County, New York. 


A Person Fidgets and Fusses for No Reason
If someone keeps performing a random physical action that seems unnecessary—cleaning her glasses excessively, retying her shoelaces, or dusting off the (clean) table in front of her—she may be lying. The guilt and anxiety make her restless. That can be particularly true if she is lying to somebody she loves. When a person fibs to a traffic cop, she won’t necessarily fidget a lot. But if she is deceiving her husband, she won’t be able to sit still.
--Barbara Mitchell has been a relationship therapist in New York City for 34 years. 


A Person Proclaims His Honesty Repeatedly
To sell us on the integrity of their answers, liars often use phrases emphasizing the validity of their statements, like “to tell the truth” and “to be perfectly honest.” These verbal tip-offs frequently invoke religion. Think of expressions like “I swear on a stack of Bibles” and “as God is my witness.” Most truthful people don’t need to go that far.
--Joseph Buckley is the president of John E. Reid and Associates, in Chicago, which trains law-enforcement investigators. 


----------------

But I would not want to rely on signs that she's lying. My husband became a very practiced liar--cheaters in general are--because they have to do it so much.

It still would not shock me if she is innocent, at this point, of nothing more than talking too much with your horny neighbor. But stranger things have happened around here.

That last one reminds me of all the WSs in these threads who "swear on the Bible" and the worst (IMO) "I swear on my children's lives." My husband's sister, when she was a child, would say, "I mean it! I REALLY mean it!" But I suspect your wife would not resort to those.


----------



## iheartlife

Also found this from Not Just Friends--nothing new here for the TAM vets

Before You Confront

*****

1. Know what you hope to gain through the confrontation and share this goal with your partner. For example, you might want your partner to acknowledge what you already suspect or know to be true. Then you can figure out together whether to work on the marriage or end it. Remaining in the dark about a secret affair is like playing poker with your cards face up while your opponent's whole hand is face down.

2. Don't set "truth traps." You want to discover the truth directly rather than ensnare through devious methods. Don't begin the search for truth with deception or lies. If your child leaves a trail of cookie crumbs, you shouldn't ask, "Did you have a cookie today?" Start out by saying, "I saw the cookie crumbs. Tell me the truth about how many cookies you ate before dinner."

3. Give yourself time to cool down and become calm. Your effectiveness depends on how well you have thought through your confrontation. You want to create as little defensiveness in your partner as possible. Excessive emotionality on your part is likely to cuase your partner to build a protective shield rather than a bridge to the truth.

4. Consider writing down your thoughts first in order to gain clarity...

-----------------------

The Confrontation Itself
1. Choose a time and place you are both unhurried and free from distractions.

2. Do not confront on the telephone (SHOULD WE HAVE THIS ENGRAVED SOMEWHERE????)

3. Stick to the facts as you know them:
What you know
What you saw
What you've been told
Contradictions between what your partner has told you and what you've discovered

4. Say how these lies or discrepancies make you feel (betrayed, scared, insulted)

Typical Reactions to the Confrontation [if they are having an affair]
1. Denial: most people deny first. They try to find out what the betrayed partner knows.

2. Admission: whatever they admit is often just the tip of the iceberg.

3. Lying: If the unfaithful partner lies, he or she probably isn't ready to stop the affair but doesn't want to risk losing the marriage.


----------



## the guy

But a wet towel over her head and pure water over her. Keep asking the same question until you get the truth. LOL

I'm in a odd mood today.......well I'm always in an odd mood.

Jerry sorry for the humor, I just though I'd lighten up the day with it. I ment nothing by it other then to put a small smile on your face.

I hope the talk is productive and effective, good luck to you.


----------



## jerry123

the guy said:


> But a wet towel over her head and pure water over her. Keep asking the same question until you get the truth. LOL
> 
> I'm in a odd mood today.......well I'm always in an odd mood.
> 
> Jerry sorry for the humor, I just though I'd lighten up the day with it. I ment nothing by it other then to put a small smile on your face.
> 
> I hope the talk is productive and effective, good luck to you.


no, i know...
Looked at lying tech. and i will be watching. I am of course not at ease with the way she totally went off the wall and was so defensive and said no i am not cheating, what proof do you have...I will watch for signs while i tell her the about the neighbors talking sexual almost everytime she was around. 

And forgot to mention, when i told her about pills missing she said "You must have miscounted because the last time i took them was when i was with you."

Which she should have said "the last time we had sex" I just picked up on that, meaning was she thinking " The last time i was with you and not OM"


----------



## Chaparral

jerry123 said:


> no, i know...
> Looked at lying tech. and i will be watching. I am of course not at ease with the way she totally went off the wall and was so defensive and said no i am not cheating, what proof do you have...I will watch for signs while i tell her the about the neighbors talking sexual almost everytime she was around.
> 
> And forgot to mention, when i told her about pills missing she said "You must have miscounted because the last time i took them was when i was with you."
> 
> Which she should have said "the last time we had sex" I just picked up on that, meaning was she thinking " The last time i was with you and not OM"


Say what? When did you accuse her of cheating ? What kind of pills? Did you miss count? By how many?


----------



## Chaparral

Did she say " what proof do you have?" or "you can't have any proof that I'm cheating". This does sound worse and worse.


----------



## bandit.45

And keep looking for a job. Tell your wife this is a non-negotiable issue, and that once you are employed you and her and the kids can share the housework, or split the cost on a maid. 

Her only leverage with you is your financial dependence on her. She is scared to lose that power. 

Change the dynamic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Remember start the the talk out with things you know are true....small talk like what time she gets of work, maybe talk about some scheduled things with the kids or recap some appointments that have been made.

You need to guage truth so you can identify the lies as the conversation goes on.


----------



## jerry123

chapparal said:


> Say what? When did you accuse her of cheating ? What kind of pills? Did you miss count? By how many?


accused her the other day with no evidence but UTI pills she takes once in a while after sex in case she gets a UTI were missing 4 from bottle. She got really mad at that too, and said i took them the last time i was with you...

I mean she got realllly mad, at everything and then said she will never forget i asked her that question. 
Also, after we both calmed down i asked her why a few months ago when i was having a really bad day and nothing was going right i was sitting on the bed and just was about to break down and lose it she would not even come over and give me a hug. She says that she thinks she probably has less empathy than other people. That's my wife telling this to her husband.


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> And keep looking for a job. Tell your wife this is a non-negotiable issue, and that once you are employed you and her and the kids can share the housework, or split the cost on a maid.
> 
> Her only leverage with you is your financial dependence on her. She is scared to lose that power.
> 
> Change the dynamic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly, she wants you to stay at home because she is worried you will leave. She also realizes that as the main caregiver you would probably be awarded primary custody. Do you live in a total no fault divorce state. Many states can claim fault for infidelity.


----------



## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> accused her the other day with no evidence but UTI pills she takes once in a while after sex in case she gets a UTI were missing 4 from bottle. She got really mad at that too, and said i took them the last time i was with you...
> 
> I mean she got realllly mad, at everything and then said she will never forget i asked her that question.
> Also, after we both calmed down i asked her why a few months ago when i was having a really bad day and nothing was going right i was sitting on the bed and just was about to break down and lose it she would not even come over and give me a hug. She says that she thinks she probably has less empathy than other people. That's my wife telling this to her husband.


That's more of a character flaw. And not inconsistent from other stuff you've said about her. She sounds a lot like my wife when she was emotionally checked out.


----------



## Almostrecovered

chap- you mustve missed this thread
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/45341-new-thread-update-ok-here-my-story.html


----------



## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> chap- you mustve missed this thread
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/45341-new-thread-update-ok-here-my-story.html


yeah, i started another thread after i confronted her...sorry, should have kept them together but i figured i would get more responses and advice.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> no, i know...
> Looked at lying tech. and i will be watching. I am of course not at ease with the way she totally went off the wall and was so defensive and said no i am not cheating, what proof do you have...I will watch for signs while i tell her the about the neighbors talking sexual almost everytime she was around.
> 
> And forgot to mention, when i told her about pills missing she said "You must have miscounted because the last time i took them was when i was with you."
> 
> Which she should have said "the last time we had sex" I just picked up on that, meaning was she thinking " The last time i was with you and not OM"


You both have real intimacy issues just by reading your comments.

She says "the last time i took them was when i was with you."

And you expected her to say "the last time we had sex.

Wouldn't a couple that was in love with each other say -- the last time we made love -- or am I to old fashioned !! No matter how the conversation goes tonight -- you both have alot of work to do IMO.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> You both have real intimacy issues just by reading your comments.
> 
> She says "the last time i took them was when i was with you."
> 
> And you expected her to say "the last time we had sex.
> 
> Wouldn't a couple that was in love with each other say -- the last time we made love -- or am I to old fashioned !! No matter how the conversation goes tonight -- you both have alot of work to do IMO.


She has never said "made love"...always had sex. That's what i expected but it struck me as weird when she said "last time i was with you"

Yeah, issues with her are she feels the need to belittle me in front of people to show she makes the money. The issue with me is i need a "wife", someone i can talk to about anything. I feel talking to her will end in judgement...but i told her yesterday i will not tolerate the way she treats me at home or in public.I also said i know i have issues to work on also. And we should go talk to someone.


----------



## jh52

jerry123 said:


> She has never said "made love"...always had sex. That's what i expected but it struck me as weird when she said "last time i was with you"
> 
> Yeah, issues with her are she feels the need to belittle me in front of people to show she makes the money. The issue with me is i need a "wife", someone i can talk to about anything. I feel talking to her will end in judgement...but i told her yesterday i will not tolerate the way she treats me at home or in public.I also said i know i have issues to work on also. And we should go talk to someone.


Was your wife always abusive -- or since you became a SAHD ? Glad you stuck up for yourself last night. Don't let anyone treat you like crap (goes for both men and women). Sometimes they may not even realize they are doing it -- so stand up for yourself. If it continues after talking with someone -- and that person doesn't change -- then it's up to you. But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over -- and expecting a different result. You did something different last night -- you confronted her on the abuse -- so keep standing up to her -- and hope she changes. If she can't/won't/doesn't -- then you have to decide if this is the way you want to spend the rest of your life. If she is cheating on you -- still not any real proof -- then you have to throw that into the equation as well. Wishing you both the best tonight.


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Was your wife always abusive -- or since you became a SAHD ? Glad you stuck up for yourself last night. Don't let anyone treat you like crap (goes for both men and women). Sometimes they may not even realize they are doing it -- so stand up for yourself. If it continues after talking with someone -- and that person doesn't change -- then it's up to you. But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over -- and expecting a different result. You did something different last night -- you confronted her on the abuse -- so keep standing up to her -- and hope she changes. If she can't/won't/doesn't -- then you have to decide if this is the way you want to spend the rest of your life. If she is cheating on you -- still not any real proof -- then you have to throw that into the equation as well. Wishing you both the best tonight.


Seemed it started 4-5 years ago...yeah, she is showing a different tune after I stood up for myself and told her I am going to look for a job. But that could be here fearing a talk about neighbor guy. I will lay it all out tonight. Start to finish. Then tell her I am making a call for us to see a MC. Then this weekend I will start looking at job postings in front of her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

Will you have time to check her VAR/GPS tonight before the talk ??


----------



## jerry123

jh52 said:


> Will you have time to check her VAR/GPS tonight before the talk ??


I might...if she goes up stairs to change I will grab it from car and try and listen with ear buds in bathroom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> chap- you mustve missed this thread
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/45341-new-thread-update-ok-here-my-story.html


Thanks AR, I hate when threads fork off of my subscribed list.


----------



## Chaparral

So my take on the pills is problematic. It doesn't matter what she takesthemfor as much as you counted them recently, now 4 are missing and she says she took them after the two of you were together. If she took 1 every day for four days. would that work out time wise. What it sounds like is she lied about it. She isn't sayingshe did not take them. She could have waited a few days beforeshe felt the need to take them.

The way she answered the what about proof thing means nothing. It could be interpreted in a dozen ways.

Keep investigating.

Talk the talk

Get IC/MC 

Get a job

Read/reread MMSL


----------



## Chaparral

One really good reason to get a job is that kids aren't kids forever. Most people have a hard time getting back into the work force after a long time away.


----------



## Almostrecovered

saw jerry is finally pulling the plug
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/82162-pulling-plug-marriage.html
for those of you good at divorce advice, it would be nice to help out an old friend


----------



## Gabriel

AR, thank you very much for referencing this new thread for those of us who were so invested in Jerry back when. Much appreciated. Not sure I would have seen it.


----------



## tom67

Thanks AR.


----------



## bfree

I think we all knew where it was headed. Very sad.


----------

