# Confronting Affair Soon, Need Tips.



## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

*I am updating this post's timeline, so join me in my journey through hell.*

Apologies in advance I wrote this extremely late at night, I am sure you will understand.

Like many of you, I recently discovered the woman I love violated my trust and is having an EA with another man.

*This is my story:*
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BH - 30 yrs old
WW -29 yrs old housewife
OM - 38 yrs old (he told her he is single, lives 18hrs away)
Married 5.5 years, together 8 years. 2 children, 1.3 year old and a 3.5 year old.

WW and BS were going through tough times. A little over 2 years ago we moved across the country for a job, we bought a house, and just got pregnant with our youngest child. Then BS was laid off. BS was fortunate to get another good job but that required us to move again, away from the house we just bought. And to make matters worse we had to move into a tiny apartment. We both have not been happy in this location; we have no family here, and little/no friends. WW and BS stopped adding momentum to our relationship and coasted. This was the cause of our future problems.

Fast forward to a little over a year ago, 2nd child was born. BS slacked on responsibilities as a husband/father in order to concentrate on work (overtime). WW has difficulty making it to church on Sundays because BS was not able to help her. She stops going. WW now loses all sense of community/purpose/identity due to lack of church and lack of husband. Wife starts playing MMO to fill the void. WW starts spending 40-50 hours per week on game. WW starts ignoring responsibilities to family: stops making non-microwaveable meals, does not take children outside, and stops maintaining home. This caused many fights when BS pointed it out. Over several months, it started with suggestions to do things, then to telling her to do things, then demanding, then yelling.

Due to how much time WW was spending on game, naturally she made friends. OM was on the game as much as she was. They obviously spoke daily. WW likely complained about husband to OM at some point. Aug2013 BS caught her flirting with OM online, WW denies, said she didn't mean to, blah blah. BS tells WW to quit the game, that it is destroying our marriage. WW says she won't quit, but will try to cut back on game time. BS asks her to limit the amount of 1on1 speaking time with OM and to only talk about the game and not about our life. WW made extremely modest cuts to her time online.

Oct2013 WW spends several thousand dollars on medical procedure without consulting BS to enhance her external beauty. WW claims it was something she always wanted, BS said that's no excuse to spend that much money without even talking about it. Fights ensue.

Early Nov2013 WW spends several thousand dollars on online education to pursue a possible job, again little/no consultation with BS. She claimed it was to stop complaining about her not doing anything. BS is upset but eventually forgives because anything was better than the game.

Late Nov2013, after a fight due to the withholding of sex for the past month, WW says she wants separation. BS starts working on problem areas of marriage WW identified. BS notices increase protectionism of phone, waits for WW to shower then goes through contact list. BS confronts WW about OM's number being in cell phone. WW justifies by saying facebook must have imported contact information (facebook app can actually do that on smartphones). WW turns on BS saying I can't believe you betrayed my trust by going through my phone. Then adds passcode to phone, changes passwords on computer, emails, and others. Electronic life becomes Alcatraz.

Mid Dec2013 WW says she needs to be apart in order to heal from trust violation, moves into her own apartment and starts seeing an IC.

Late Dec2013 BS writes WW a poem for Christmas gift, saying he wants to go to MC together and admits to all the problems that WW identified. WW says she will ask her IC on Jan 9th for a MC reference. WW goes completely cold following this.

Jan 9th WW says her IC wants us both to go into a therapy session soon.

Jan 13th WW give BS a letter saying she wants a divorce and that she is not interested in MC.

Jan 19th Discovered undeniable proof; unsent love-letters written to OM. Started looking for advice on how to proceed. She has quit her game, but obviously continuing her EA.

Jan 28th Separated finances

Feb 3rd Initial post on this site.

Feb 5th -Mailed letters to friends and family
- Link to post on initial consultation with divorce lawyer.

Feb 6th - Revealed knowledge of affair at WW's individual therapy session; Told her she needs to end affair.

Feb 7th - her friends and family contact her and "put her through hell"

Feb 8th - She said that she ended her relationship with the other man and wanted to go to counseling together to "work on communication" but not to repair our relationship.

Mid Feb - Told her that I wasn't able to go to counseling because she hadn't shown any remorse, still to this day she hasn't ever apologized for her actions.

Mar 6th - Discovered she didn't end the relationship or that she restarted it less than a week after she said it was over. She went crazy, she yelled, hit, followed me to the car, and tried to prevent me from leaving because she was upset that I found out, claims to be upset that I 'went through her things'. Sadly all that took place in front of the children, but on the plus side I recorded the audio on my phone and I was calm for the most part. I just repeatedly asked her to not yell, cuss, and fight in front of the kids, while saying that I was trying to leave.

Mar 7th - Invited her over to my place to begin discussions to separate all assets and property. It was surprisingly civil. But this was only the first round of negotiations.

Mar 10th (PLANNED) - second round of negotiations.


*End of story*
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While I love my wife, I can move on. My biggest concern in all this is our children, My 3.5 year old asks me questions everyday like "why does mommy not live here?" to which I am forced to tell him 'because we wanted to have 2 houses now so that way we have space to put all of your toys!'. The other day he asked me to draw a 'treasure map' of the living room and pointed out the fact that some furniture and mommy's laptop were missing from the map. I care about the happiness of my children more than what is probably healthy and this kills me. I can feel my life expectancy shortening every time he asks why mommy can't stay at our apartment when she drops them off when I get out of work. I think that I can even forgive something that I told myself that I would never forgive. For them. I must find the strength.

I am 98% certain this is just EA not a PA. Logistically it would have been very difficult, but you never know.

I haven't revealed the affair yet because I want it to be in front of a 3rd party so I don't throat punch her and because I want to make sure she is forced to talk about it. We are going to her IC session on Feb 6th and I can finally unload the weight I have been carrying for the past 2 weeks.


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*Edited to answer some questions in the replies:*

-Many have asked: How do I know that it just an EA?
OM lives 19 hours away. I do understand that he could have flown in at anytime. That possibility always exists. However I guess I should have said early, from what I have gleaned from the love-letters, she has had these feelings for him for some time. Only after she gave me the letter saying she wanted a divorce did she 100% accept those feelings without any remorse. I know how she justifies things and this makes sense. But the problem lies in the fact that before she acknowledged she wanted to get a divorce, -even if it was at a smaller percentage- she was giving into her feelings, utilizing some of her emotional capital on the OM instead of our marriage, where it was needed. So I still stand by the 98% certainty it is still an EA at this point. I am not foolish enough to say that it won't go PA at some point, because I know that will be an eventuality if things continue untouched.

-I am and will not accept blame for her cheating, but I do acknowledge that I contributed to problems in the marriage which she twisted to justify her actions.

-86857 thank you for your lengthy and thoughful response. In the state I live in some of the spying methods you suggest are illegal. I cannot risk that because that would be a bad example for my children and other reasons. I was supporting her 100% until I discovered the affair, then we separated finances. She has enough money to live for a few months, but I need to find out what my financial obligations are in this state. She watches the kids while I am at work, 10 hours 6 days a week. I have them the rest of the time. They are eating breakfast and dinner and sleeping at my house every night. As far as custody, we have only talked a couple times. At first it was 'when you get a new job I will move there too', then it was 'I am moving back to the state where my parents live' (which also is where OM lives, this was prior to discovering the affair), and now I think she is back to 'wanting to live close enough to pass children but far enough to not be near me'. I am not willing to accept less than 50% of the time with my children. And I think their mother should have 50%, if she wants it...

-6301, yeah it is easy to make mistakes when your eyes are closed. If only I was able to piece it all together sooner right? I liked your poem, it was good for a chuckle.

-Badmemory, I would agree that it looks like I am desperate, hell you are probably right. But I am actually willing to leave her, the only thing that is preventing me from never looking back is the children's happiness. I am young, in good shape, make decent money, and I don't cheat. I have many things going for me and there are plenty of fish in the sea.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Never ask someone to end affair. Tell them. 

Your wife would likely not be so focused on leaving if she had already not sampled the goods. Cheaters can always find a way.

You are setting an awful example for your kids, by not being more decisive. And you are doing your kids no favor by rugsweeping. Your children will need a strong role model.

When you confront DO NOT ACCEPT ANY BLAME FOR HER CHEATING. 

And never allow her to blameshift.

Id simply give her the name of your divorce lawyer. And unless she wants you to call him, it all ends now. 

There is no point to couples therapy if she is still in the affair.

Also find out if the om is really single or not. If he is not expose to them.

Good luck.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

*OP, keep in mind these are only my opinions - I'm no expert.* 

Sorry, but I think she may have checked out since meeting OM. Her 'beauty job' & the course may not be for you. No sex, she wants a separation, then she DOES move out using the 'violation of her trust' card which is ridiculous. 

It may have gone PA after she moved out. My guess is he came to visit, or she to him. It explains her suddenly going cold. Love letters? She's badly in the fog! So odd when we all use email! Try and get a copy of them if you still can. If you can get back in her apt look for OM's clothes, extra toothbrush, condoms in bathroom etc. I know all this is awful but you need to know the truth. 

You have made so much effort to fix it and she little, if any. You need to file for divorce, something she doesn't expect. She needs to be shocked out of her fog. If she agrees, she has definitely checked out. OM may not be that keen once she's free - happens a LOT. He's single, foot loose and fancy free and may not be that interested in a single mother. So you might find her back on your doorstep even if you divorce. 

If you don't want to go that far then do a 180 - do a search on here for how to do that. 

DON'T do a soft confront because it never works. Most of all you now need to get more hard information, especially about OM. 
- Does she have an iPhone? You can easily get the backup and even deleted messages with free software from the net. 
- Can you find out more about him from Facebook or the gaming site? 
- Can you VAR her car or apartment? 
- Maybe even hire a PI when you have the kids and you know she is on her own, especially at a w/e when he might visit. 
You need to know how far it's gone and whether they are planning to be together. You won't get ANY information from her. 

Check out Weightlifter. He has taken quite a few BS through it. Horrible I know. 

See a lawyer, work out your finances and get D papers drawn up even if you don't plan to use them. Has she said what she plans to do about custody? How will she support herself? Are you supporting her atm? Is she still a stay-at-home-Mom? Get your financial and legal ducks lined up just in case. 

Are the kids with you/her? How is her mothering through all this?

I am so sorry you're in this, especially with your 2 little children. These are just my first thoughts on it. You will get good advice on here. I also hope you have someone, a close friend or family member onsite to support you. If not, do consider it.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Expose, expose and expose.

Her affair likes the dark. Shine the light on her affair.

Tell her family. Tell your family. Give her a choice, do NC with the OM or divorce. 

You are at war and your enemy spent your family money on some procedure. She is selfish.

She is not the woman you married. I hope you made copies of her love letters to the OM. Must be quite a responsible person to have that much time to play games.

Get an attorney and file.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

sorry you are here, especially with such little kids.

plz stop blaming yourself. no one forced her to retreat online when you moved. many of us moms would look for a playgroup at the park, not an AP online. this is not your fault.

i'd go completely 180 and prepare to move on without her. you can do this- you have to be there for your kids.

as for your title, what's there to confront? seems she's making it perfectly clear for you. be grateful for that and listen to the advice you're given here. much of it will be helpful.

sending you my best.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

You need to find out if he really is single. Expose it like yesterday. Problem is you already did a soft confront and lost the ability to do the shocking kick to the curb. She has now acclimated to life without you. 

The only card you have left is filing. That she won't expect since your the one so desperate to save it.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Also do some research on the divorce/property division/custodial rights for family law in your state. The judge is going to follow "some" standard order when it comes to those kids despite all your "findings" and evidence gathered, and everything he does will be "according to the best interests of the kids", so find out what those are.
If at that point you can reasonably put together an agreement with the WW, and get a judge to sign off on it, then you will save thousands and have input on what your future IS with those kids. 
Consider finances, and steps to be taken now, to keep from being bent over in court. 
In TX, I took the "Standard Order" and changed it to meet what I thought was the best for my kid, and had the ex go over it and hammer out something for the judge to sign off on. 

It may not be this far into the game for you, but its something to think about; in case she has gone dark for good on you. It happened to me, someone was already there to replace me as soon as she could get me out of the picture. I got the "betrayed my trust by going thru my phone" garbage too, and it was my walking into the restroom and seeing it light up, and the string of sms msgs back and forth between her and OM#1...


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My suggestion:

1. Go silent on your wife, other then the kids and finances. Keep your mouth shut with any plans.
2. Start the 180.
3. Lawyer up and don't let your wife know about it.
4. Get all your accounts in order.
5. File for D. Mean it and f0llow through with it.
6. No threats, no begging, no listening to what "your" issues are.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> My suggestion:
> 
> 1. Go silent on your wife, other then the kids and finances. Keep your mouth shut with any plans.
> 2. Start the 180.
> ...


All of the above and expose to the family her EA/ Most Likely PA with the OM. Do not tell her of any of your plans, Just do it. The A is not your fault she is a big girl and made her choices. Take action and stop being the doormat


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Your beating your head against the wall with her and will not win.

It's obvious that she does what she wants, when she wants and how she wants and you opinion. She gets cosmetic surgery and doesn't ask. Does the on line education thing and doesn't talk to you about it. Continues to converse with the OM when you tell her to stop and then has the balls to get pissed when she makes the claim that you betrayed her trust when she's the one in a EA.

Now with that said, your first mistake was sending her a poem. What you should have sent her was divorce papers and told her that her blame shifting was total bull $h!t and then sent her a poem like "Roses are red. I'm a poor sport. You cheated and lied and I'll see you in court."


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Like many BS's we see here, you're taking the wrong approach due to your desperation. You have to change your mindset and due it NOW.

You have to be willing to end your marriage to have any chance of saving it. Unless your wife understands what it's like to lose her husband for cheating on him; she will not turn around. She may never turn around because she simply doesn't care; but you'll find out soon enough if you follow the advice here. 

You can't fix this by being nice. Stop going to MC with her. She's checked out of your marriage and moved away to actively cheat. Your only option is to detach from her, utilizing the 180 - and head straight toward divorce. Period. Use your anger to fuel your resolve. Don't lash out at her. Aim for indifference. Talk to her as little as possible.

Separate your finances and expose her and the POSOM. 

Don't even think about R with her right now. If she changes for the better at any point - check back here for more advice before you consider postponing the D. We can help you determine whether she's truly remorseful.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

See I think this marriage is salvageable. It's very clear what happened here (you gave great details) and based on your post it's clear when the marriage started to break down, and it's clearly before OM was involved. You were working a lot, your wife got overwhelmed and fell into depression, and as you started telling her what to do you fell into a parent child relationship. This is never good for a marriage, nobody wants to sleep with their parent. The fault lies with both of you, but this kind of thing happens a lot. 
At this point I agree with others that you should lawyer up and go ahead and file, and continue to work on yourself. It's possible when she sees you moving on and bettering yourself she'll want to try again, but if not you'll be a better man and father.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> Jan 13th WW give BS a letter saying she wants a divorce and that she is not interested in MC. BS completely confused.


Why are you confused Dawg? Nothing to be confused about. She stated flat out what she wants and that to be out of the marriage. You may want to believe its "only an EA", but my money sez the OM is already sampling the goodies. Here's the thing. When a woman want to her own place, it means she want her own place to entertain the men in her life. Unfortunately, it ain't you. Additionally, saying a woman withholds sex is a misnomer. She's not withholding sex; she's just doesn't want to have sex with you.
Time to gather up your gear and plan a future without this particular chick.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

And oh, get that money back. Right outta her fake boobs, if the need arises.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

Thank you all for your responses, they all mean a lot to me.

-I am and will not accept blame for her cheating, but I do acknowledge that I contributed to problems in the marriage which she twisted to justify her actions.

-86857 thank you for your lengthy and thoughful response. In the state I live in some of the spying methods you suggest are illegal. I cannot risk that because that would be a bad example for my children and other reasons. I was supporting her 100% until I discovered the affair, then we separated finances. She has enough money to live for a few months, but I need to find out what my financial obligations are in this state. She watches the kids while I am at work, 10 hours 6 days a week. I have them the rest of the time. They are eating breakfast and dinner and sleeping at my house every night. As far as custody, we have only talked a couple times. At first it was 'when you get a new job I will move there too', then it was 'I am moving back to the state where my parents live' (which also is where OM lives, this was prior to discovery), and now I think she is back to 'wanting to live close enough to pass children but far enough to not be near me'. I am not willing to accept less than 50% of the time with my children. And I think their mother should have 50%, if she wants it...

-6301, yeah it is easy to make mistakes when your eyes are closed. If only I was able to piece it all together sooner right? I liked your poem, it was good for a chuckle.

-Badmemory, I would agree that it looks like I am desperate, hell you are probably right. But I am actually willing to leave her, the only thing that is preventing me from never looking back is the children's happiness. I am young, in good shape, make decent money, and I don't cheat. I have many things going for me and there are plenty of fish in the sea.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It's my guess that she stopped going to church because she felt guilty. Not because you couldn't take her.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> It's my guess that she stopped going to church because she felt guilty. Not because you couldn't take her.


I don't think that is right. She pretty much stopped going because her church time was at like 9am, she rarely wakes up before 8-8:30 since the birth of our 2nd child. But I would say she has continued to not go to church out of guilt.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

No one comes here unless they are desperate. You cannot allow that to inform your actions.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

6301 said:


> she makes the claim that you betrayed her trust when she's the one in a EA.


Now, I don't follow the overuse, IMO, of the fog, but it is stupid stuff like this that let's you know it exists. 

Seriously, how illogical does this sound when you really think about it? 

"I'm confiding in another person, on a regular basis, sharing secrets, bad mouthing my lover, pointing out all of your flaws, developing a new relationship, all behind your back, but YOU betrayed me by snooping/spying. LOL.

Do yourself a favor, stop accepting 100% blame and excusing your wife. Yeah, you made some mistakes, but you aren't the devil. I'll tell you right now, stop lying to your kids. They are too young to know all of the details, but talk to someone to approach it properly. If the truth comes out, you'll definitely be the bad guy.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

TBO, I'll spare you the blow by blow list of the relationship tactical errors from your original post, but I will say that allowing her to move out is pretty much the marital equivalent of what we used to call a "killing blow."

As everyone says you've got to be willing to burn the village to save it. It's harder to do when she has moved out, but it's definitely doable.

First expose to everyone in her family. Don't give her money for anything. 

As you've already been told by Thorburn, quit discussing the relationship. Go dark on everything but kids, until she's served. If she comes around, you can always stop it.

Change your hair. Grow it, cut it, dye it, just change it. Add or subtract facial hair.

Get another ride. Something a single guy would drive. Hot rod, chopper, sports car.

Get in the shape of your life; as in a defined six pack, and the broadest shoulders you can get.

Start dressing like a guy ten years younger with 3X the income.

Next time she sees you, and ever time thereafter, she needs to see the above changes. Just like her fake rack, this is a signal to her that you are moving onward and upward to younger and hotter. Start going out like you're dating the world. Have a baby sitter in a couple of nights per week. Got to a movie, go to the library, go feed the bears, just be going out.

She will not like this message. Provoking that is your best option. Unfortunately, she is probably too far gone and living on her own gives her too much time to sample strange. She can get addicted, due to the brain chemistry involved, to riding the cøck carousel really quick.

The outward improvements and the clouds of mystery pouring confusion on the ground may get her attention. She may possibly become intrigued, more likely not, but if this doesn't work, nothing else will either.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> TBO, I'll spare you the blow by blow list of the relationship tactical errors from your original post, but I will say that allowing her to move out is pretty much the marital equivalent of what we used to call a "killing blow."
> 
> As everyone says you've got to be willing to burn the village to save it. It's harder to do when she has moved out, but it's definitely doable.
> 
> ...


Best summary of this I've seen.

So many link to the 180 - and it's good.

But, this is what he needs to hear right now.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Now, I don't follow the overuse, IMO, of the fog, but it is stupid stuff like this that let's you know it exists.
> 
> Seriously, how illogical does this sound when you really think about it?
> 
> ...


Or its not the fog and shes just blameshifting.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I probably parse blame shifting differently than you, that's why I used fog.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

People in or out of the fog blameshift. Its basic human nature.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> TBO, I'll spare you the blow by blow list of the relationship tactical errors from your original post, but I will say that allowing her to move out is pretty much the marital equivalent of what we used to call a "killing blow."
> 
> As everyone says you've got to be willing to burn the village to save it. It's harder to do when she has moved out, but it's definitely doable.
> 
> ...


Read this 3 times please.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I thought she was a house wife, did you give her money to pay rent and expenses?

Maybe you should make her get a job, so stop paying in order to achieve that. That should maybe save you money in case of a divorce?

Maybe the OM can chip in. He is probably enjoying some.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> I would agree that it looks like I am desperate, hell you are probably right. But I am actually willing to leave her, the only thing that is preventing me from never looking back is the children. I am young, in good shape, make decent money, and I don't cheat. I have many things going for me and there are plenty of fish in the sea.


Love it TBO, and you ARE desperate, as desperate as any parent would be to keep the home intact for your kids. If you were just dating her you would have walked long ago. 

So she got depressed. It is hard, having to move away from family & a lovely new house into a small apt - but so did YOU. 

Her response was to get addicted to gaming, neglect the kids and THEN have an EA, (probably PA by now), oh and have a beauty job and do a course without telling you. BTW, depressed people don't do the beauty thing etc - they have NO motivation. 

You? You worked 60 hours a week, so maybe too tired to give her as much attention as usual.

BTW, if she was truly depressed she wouldn't have attracted OM or any other man. She must have been very bright, cheery and preppy to have got something going with him. Depressed people are all gloom and doom, and very unattractive TBH - I've had it myself. 

I'm sorry but depressed or not, she sounds pathologically selfish, takes you for granted and dishes out any old treatment where you are concerned and was probably being all sweet and nice to OM. She refused to stop talking to him, then threatened divorce, then moved out, then planned to do MC with you, and to top it all off did an about turn and went cold on you. 

She moved out because she KNEW you would look after the kids and would have her freedom to do what she liked - meeting OM IMO. I'll bet he came to town. She KNEW you wouldn't go running off and give the kids back to her. 

You have no blame in this as far as I can see. Who has been doing all the heavy lifting to fix it? And who caused it?

If she comes back when you file or do a 180, (or OM dumps her when reality sets in), you had better be very clear about what she has to do if you R because she has MAJOR work to do. 

NO MORE POETRY. It didn't work.

So take all the great advice you are getting from the good people on here. 

That's all for now folks. 

Just to remind you:


> I am young, in good shape, make decent money, *and I don't cheat.* I have many things going for me and there are plenty of fish in the sea.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

When a man has a cheating wife
that's the end of the mediocre life.
Don't bother with a love poem.
Instead you'd better grow 'em.
For without testicles there's nothing but strife.

OP, you are getting help from top posters. Implement their advice and things will improve.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The game playing, the OM from the game, the surgery, leaving her husband and children (!)....your WW is pathologically immature. She sounds like an entitled teenager.

There's always a chance that she will grow up, but why would you wait for that? I would protect the kids and get out. A grown woman is far preferable as a wife and mother, in my opinion.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Is a woman that cheats on you, leaves you and your children than blames you for it - worthy of your love?

Read Mach's response over and over until you're living it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

illwill said:


> People in or out of the fog blameshift. Its basic human nature.


You took what i wrote in a different manner, we are talking past each other, I'll end the derail.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

Again thank you all for your words, they are encouraging.

As far as updates go, I just finished making all the letters to friends and family. I will drop them in the mailbox tomorrow morning (Wed). I am trying to set up a consultation with the divorce lawyer for tomorrow afternoon. I am still planning on revealing my knowledge of the affair Thursday morning during her individual counseling session. I think it is important for her therapist to know about this. But more importantly I am trying to go for max shock value with the little I have left;
-Reveal knowledge of affair
-Tell her it needs to stop.
-Hit her with the divorce lawyer
-Friends and family should start calling her that night since they receive the letters that day.
-Cut off all funds [if law permits]
- start 180. I am going to a party this Thursday night and told her she needs to watch the kids.

And as a side comment, it's unbelievable how much divorce lawyers cost. I was barely able to pay the retainer. I think if she will have to choose between having an appt or having a lawyer. This will put her in a place of extreme stress and give her a sense of helplessness.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Good plan.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

Good to see you in the process of taking action. Please follow through the Mach Testicle Reclamation process.

Don't blame yourself. Once exposed, I don't see how anyone (decent) could take your wife's side. There's no justifying her behavior- stop making excuses for her.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Make sure you know the full extent of the affair before you expose. Very rarely does someone move out based on emotional affairs. It could be the EA guy from the game or it could be some other guy more local.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You don't even have to tell her to stop the affair. That should be self evident. Don't talk with her about anything but the kids and divorce. If she talks about maybe, then you can say she must NC with OM and turnover all passwords. 

You need to have access to her email and FB so you can know the the extent of her betrayal.

Follow Mach's self improvement regime


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Due to how much time WW was spending on game, naturally she made friends. OM was on the game as much as she was. They obviously spoke daily. WW likely complained about husband to OM at some point. Aug2013 BS caught her flirting with OM online, WW denies, said she didn't mean to, blah blah. BS tells WW to quit the game, that it is destroying our marriage. WW says she won't quit, but will try to cut back on game time. BS asks her to limit the amount of 1on1 speaking time with OM and to only talk about the game and not about our life. WW made extremely modest cuts to her time online. 

Mistake 1 not crushing it. Not news to you I know.

Oct2013 WW spends several thousand dollars on medical procedure without consulting BS to enhance her external beauty. WW claims it was something she always wanted, BS said that's no excuse to spend that much money without even talking about it. Fights ensue. 

Define it generically. IE boobs, nose etc.

Early Nov2013 WW spends several thousand dollars on online education to pursue a possible job, again little/no consultation with BS. She claimed it was to stop complaining about her not doing anything. BS is upset but eventually forgives because anything was better than the game. 

Ill tell you exactly why upon the answer on the cosmetic thing above.

Late Nov2013, after a fight due to the withholding of sex for the past month, WW says she wants separation. BS starts working on problem areas of marriage WW identified. BS notices increase protectionism of phone, waits for WW to shower then goes through contact list. BS confronts WW about OM's number being in cell phone. WW justifies by saying facebook must have imported contact information (facebook app can actually do that on smartphones). WW turns on BS saying I can't believe you betrayed my trust by going through my phone. Then adds passcode to phone, changes passwords on computer, emails, and others. Electronic life becomes Alcatraz.

You and I are wired differently. I would have taken that as a challenge.

Mid Dec2013 WW says she needs to be apart in order to heal from trust violation, moves into her own apartment and starts seeing an IC.

BLAMESHIFT. BTW she is completely gone at this point. Delaying tactic

Late Dec2013 BS writes WW a poem for Christmas gift, saying he wants to go to MC together and admits to all the problems that WW identified. WW says she will ask her IC on Jan 9th for a MC reference. WW goes completely cold following this.

Jan 9th WW says her IC wants us both to go into a therapy session soon. 

Jan 13th WW give BS a letter saying she wants a divorce and that she is not interested in MC. 

Jan 19th DDay - Discovered undeniable proof; unsent love-letters written to OM. Started looking for advice on how to proceed. She has quit her game, but obviously continuing her EA. 

See above

Jan 28th Separated finances

Feb 3rd Initial post on this site.

Feb 5th -Mailed letters to friends and family
- (planned) initial consultation with divorce lawyer.

Feb 6th (planned) - Reveal knowledge of affair at WW's individual therapy session; Tell her she needs to end affair; cut off all funds [if law permits]; implement 180; go out to a party that night; imagine how the hell she is trying to justify her actions to friends and family when they start calling.

98% sure not physical.

WHY? Is he on another continent? His distance from you is...?

By the way I have written 6 confronts. 5 worked. #6 she was basically arguing up was down and blue was red.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Make sure you know the full extent of the affair before you expose. Very rarely does someone move out based on emotional affairs. It could be the EA guy from the game or it could be some other guy more local.


:iagree:

OCT 13: Beauty enhancements

NOV 13: One month of decreased sex life- quarrel

OM may live nearby, or there is an OM2.

PA I think.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Make sure you know the full extent of the affair before you expose. Very rarely does someone move out based on emotional affairs. It could be the EA guy from the game or it could be some other guy more local.


I agree completely. Did you ever think about the possibility there is more then 1? The boob job means look at me, I want attention.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Good work, TBO. Keep moving on the whole list.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

hope today goes as you have planned.
i know it will not be easy going, not for a long time, but it will get better.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> OM may live nearby, or there is an *OM2.*
> 
> *PA* I think.


Agreed. TBO only sees the tip of the iceberg.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

Warlock07 said:


> Make sure you know the full extent of the affair before you expose. Very rarely does someone move out based on emotional affairs. It could be the EA guy from the game or it could be some other guy more local.


You probably think that it is me being naive but I'd say with 99.9% certainty there isn't more than 1 person. Of course you can always ask "Do you really know her? If she could have an EA, why couldn't she do more than one? Or how do you know she isn't hosting a gangbang every Sunday afternoon?" The honest answer is even though I stupid enough not to see what was going on sooner, I know what she is capable of and how she can justify things. Plus like I said she was deep in video game addiction while I was at work, and we were always together when I wasn't working. It simply wasn't possible. 



weightlifter said:


> Define it generically. IE boobs, nose etc.


She had work done on her teeth. Although she did get her boobs done when we were engaged with her own money. She used to have less than an A cup, and really low self-esteem about them. I told her she didn't need to do that because I liked her the way she was. She said she wanted to do it for her because she has always been extremely self-conscious about it, and she figured I would enjoy the bigger boobs anyway. 



weightlifter said:


> BLAMESHIFT. BTW she is completely gone at this point. Delaying tactic [referring to the day I discovered the affair]


She didn't blame shift because I hadn't confronted her, instead I looked for advice from people who have been there before. But I agree she is completely gone.



weightlifter said:


> WHY? Is he on another continent? His distance from you is...? [referring to 98% certainty it is just an EA]


In the OP I said he is living 19 hours away. I do understand that he could have flown in at anytime. That possibility always exists. However I guess I should have said early, from what I have gleaned from the love-letters, she has had these feelings for him for some time. Only after she gave me the letter saying she wanted a divorce did she 100% give into those feelings and accept them without any remorse. I know how she justifies things and this makes sense. But the problem lies in the fact that -even if it was at a smaller percentage- she was giving into those feelings for much longer, utilizing some of her emotional capital on the OM instead of our marriage, where it was needed. So I still stand by the 98% certainty it is still an EA at this point. I am not foolish enough to say that it won't go PA at some point, because I know that will be an eventuality if things continue untouched.


-----------------------------------------------------------
Update on what happened today at the lawyer:
In the state I live in I am on the hook to support her quite a bit. Technically I do not have to until she files for temporary spousal support but I think I will support her anyway. "What you fool?! Why are you not listening to us??!!1one1". I have my reasons. Even though it has only been a few days since my initial post, I am quickly realizing that this marriage is over. The 180 list isn't a technique to help you get your marriage back, it is a list to help you move on with your life. And that is really what I need to do. Even though I remain hopeful that things could work out, I am a realist. There is maybe a 5% chance my wife will come back to me, and of that maybe 50% chance that I can forgive her if she does. Thus I must turn my attention to the things that really matter, my children. If I provoke my stbxw over funding, she will seek the help of a lawyer to get money. As a side effect, they will look at our arrangement of how we spend time with the children. She would be advised to change the current schedule. The courts are biased against men when it comes to custody, and I will not have my children taken from me. I am content to pay her spousal support that way I get to keep the current arrangement where I have the children 64% of the time. When it comes time for divorce I will have shown that not only am I the one supporting the family financially, but I have been the primary caretaker of the children. And in doing so, my lawyer says he is pretty certain he can guarantee me at least 50% custody of the children, something pretty rare against a 'stay-at-home-mom'. I can let go of my wife but I cannot live without my children. Like you guys said sometimes you have to burn the village to save it. Well I've got the gas and I'm starting the fire now.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I like it. Stay strong. What we have seen here is that an ea is as bad or worse than a pa alone.

I would put the om on cheaterville.com explaining how he broke up your childrens family, he might just wilt. His stake in this is not nearly as high as your wifes.

Is he going to have to move to be with her.

She can't move the kids away from you unless Minn. is different from other states.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

OMG, you're paying her spousal support?! 

There, the obligatory freakout. You're doing the right thing. It's a strategy, not weakness.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

OP, why bother actually on TAM, it looks like your are already completely divorced, via an 'EA'.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

you've got so much going on and you seem to be handling it well.
make sure you are taking care of yourself: eating, exercising sleeping.

i'm curious, is there anything she could do at this point to change the direction you're headed toward D?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> Even though it has only been a few days since my initial post, *I am quickly realizing that this marriage is over. The 180 list isn't a technique to help you get your marriage back, it is a list to help you move on with your life. And that is really what I need to do.* Even though I remain hopeful that things could work out, I am a realist. There is maybe a 5% chance my wife will come back to me, and of that maybe 50% chance that I can forgive her if she does. Thus I must turn my attention to the things that really matter, my children. If I provoke my stbxw over funding, she will seek the help of a lawyer to get money. As a side effect, they will look at our arrangement of how we spend time with the children. She would be advised to change the current schedule. The courts are biased against men when it comes to custody, and I will not have my children taken from me. *I am content to pay her spousal support that way I get to keep the current arrangement where I have the children 64% of the time. When it comes time for divorce I will have shown that not only am I the one supporting the family financially, but I have been the primary caretaker of the children. And in doing so, my lawyer says he is pretty certain he can guarantee me at least 50% custody of the children, something pretty rare against a 'stay-at-home-mom'.* I can let go of my wife but I cannot live without my children. Like you guys said sometimes you have to burn the village to save it. Well I've got the gas and I'm starting the fire now.


I like the way you think.
Glad to hear you have a clear mind.

:smthumbup:


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

So I just confronted her on the affair. It went pretty much as I expected, I'll fill in the details after work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Besides being the intel guy I am also one of the logistics guys. IE I look at time patterns.

You probably already know this but by October she was 98% already decided to leave you. Im thinking the fog fully set in around Sept 10.

Be strong. Seems like you are.

BTW once FULL out separated set the rules. Ask your lawyer of course but since this looks like a one way open relationship. I can almost hear him buying the ticket to bed her now. Open it all the way. IE you are a free woman. Enjoy! That way if you have opportunity... But set the ground rules re over-nighters.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

Updating as I said I would:
So where do I start.. I expected many of the responses that I got but I was a little surprised by some of the things she said. But overall I think it is pretty standard stuff. She cried a lot, I only teared up when talking about the hurt this is causing/will cause to the children.

Blah blah blah, I know you are having an affair. Her immediate reaction before the the therapist took a timeout to cool the mood was "I'm having an affair huh?"

Then came the blame game, "Why do you think I am having an affair? I feel so violated you were going through my stuff again"

Then she admitted to things, but she claimed it wasn't her fault. "I didn't go looking for an affair, I was just looking for a friend."

Then into here was a small shocker, she went way more mean than I was expecting. "I don't even know why I married you in the first place, we were having problems while we were dating"

Then an came expected statement, "I cannot end my relationship with him because I am too emotionally invested"

Her therapist which seemed to advocate for marriage, asked a couple lines of questions "WW, do you think you can end that relationship even if it is temporary to try to work things out with your husband and give your marriage a chance?"

I imagine they will be talking about this for a few weeks. So yup, that is the end.



cool12 said:


> i'm curious, is there anything she could do at this point to change the direction you're headed toward D?


Yeah, of course. I would definitely give her a chance if she ended the relationship, killed all contact with OM, and if we actually had a real conversation about our marriage and our problems. Look, when you fall in love with someone and marry them, you choose to accept them for all they are. Good and bad. Once upon a time she was the sweetest woman I had ever met, used to be so tender and compassionate. She is a good person who has made terrible decisions. I have seen her at her best, and I have seen her at her worst. Nobody is perfect and no marriage is perfect either. Perfection is only something that we can work towards. I still care for this woman, she mothered our children and I have been with her for 8 years. So yes, of course I would give her a chance. (under the assumption it was just EA, if PA game over.) But as it stands right now, it is over.

In other news,
I went out to that party tonight, I met a lot of interesting people. Ironically the group that I happened to be talking to were all single ladies between 25-35 and they were talking about their frustration with using websites for dating. So yeah, my attitude is positive for the future no matter what it holds, because life is what you make of it. No matter how crappy ending this relationship will be and how bad things are right now, they are insignificant when you look at a lifetime of possibilities and experiences. This relationship is just a chapter and there is still much more book to read.


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

Be strong. The real truth is the person who cares the least has all the power. no ifs and's or buts.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Why would you accept being plan b, after all she has done? After those cruel comments, how can she ever be worthy of you?

What is your dealbreaker? 

Until you are more willing to walk away than her, you wont be truly healing.

You are basicly waiting for her to finish her sample. And youll be there waiting.

And she knows this. So, why should she stop?

What date has to come and pass for you to take yourself away as a option?

You are doing better. Good work.

Now focus on your self esteem.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

You went to MC, your wife said she wouldn't stop the affair.. and then you went out to a party?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She sounds like a very selfish person..Everything about her only..

Is the OM actually a 38 year old single man ?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> So yeah, my attitude is positive for the future no matter what it holds, because life is what you make of it. No matter how crappy ending this relationship will be and how bad things are right now, they are insignificant when you look at a lifetime of possibilities and experiences. This relationship is just a chapter and there is still much more book to read.


Amen


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## HankGrey (Feb 7, 2014)

I am going through the same thing. We have ten years on you, but the details are eerily similar. I also dealt with this problem with my wife five years ago. It did involve a physical relationship. The current problem I face is online much like your scenario. Maybe I can provide some insight.

We are 50% of the equation which means we are half to blame for the problems in the marriage. However, we didn't make the decision to cross the line and attempt to fulfill marital needs outside the marriage. Her cheating is on her, not you. Also, if you think about this logically, her choices are very impulsive and impracticle. She is seeking solice with a man ten years her senior who obviously does little more than sit on his computer and play games all day. How could you hope to compete with a stud like that? The fact that she would try to fill a need/void in her life with a stranger she met in a game online instead of someone with whom she has children, a history and at one time love and trust--this should tell you there is something seriously wrong with her thought processes/judgement. Before you can work on the marriage, she may need to work on her own issues individually.

It is critical that she has remorse for her actions. Often, there will be an attempt to place the blame all on you. Most people don't want to hurt another person. The natural tendency is to place the blame on you so she feels justified in her actions.

If there are problems in the marriage, she is using this relationship as an escape. It's really very similar to getting drunk to escape the realities of life. My guess is that this online friend is merely a distraction. Even if it turned physical, it's not about you--it's her insecurity and a reaction to her inability to cope. If you are like me, you will want to understand why she did this--the natural reaction is to try to blame yourself. It's usually easier to understand than the actual reason. Fight this temptation! If you fall prey to this, it hurts you, feeds her need for justification and keeps you from resolving the issue.

Especially with kids involved, don't do things rashly. Let the hurt, anger and bitterness calm down some before making big decisions. You created life with this person and it's not unreasonable to admit you still love her. The truth is that you are angry and hurt because you do care. Be careful--I just wouldn't want you to have regret down the road.

There is also the possibility that the two of you cannot give the other what you need. Marriage is a lot of work and you both need to be committed to fixing the problem and regaining trust. Once again, I am in the same boat. Good luck .


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Sorry you are here and you will hear this story over and ever here.
Here is something that has really helped my situation;
1. If a spouse cheats and does not end it immediately with total regret, total honesty and is prepared to discuss every single aspect of the EA there and then, consider the relationship OVER.

2. Now that the relationship is OVER, you can bundle any emotions you have for that person in the same basket. It makes it easier to cope and also lets you think clearly, in the present.

3. Separate from your wife and live somewhere you won't see here for at least a few weeks.

4. Go to IC and find out what makes you happy, who you are, what makes you happy.

5. If you are still contemplating a NEW relationship, consider what qualities you want in a partner.

After this process, and once the emotional trauma has dies down, you may quickly realise that you no longer desire to have a relationship with this person.

If you still want to repair the relationship, you will be in a position of power and you can go through the process of working on a new relationship with the upper hand (ie knowing you can walk away from it at any time).


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

And the reactions to exposure and the D papers were?


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

"The fact that she would try to fill a need/void in her life with a stranger she met in a game online instead of someone with whom she has children, a history and at one time love and trust--this should tell you there is something seriously wrong with her thought processes/judgement. Before you can work on the marriage, she may need to work on her own issues individually."<~~~~~~This


The above quote is crucial and my spouse did the same and it's been the hardest part bar none in our recovery. I just can't wrap my brain around it despite a year and half of counseling and remorse on his part. It's like someone announcing they are a alien from another planet.

Still can't understand how one can "fall in love" with a virtual stranger to the point where they want to chuck their real life for them.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

She feels violated? I'm guessing you do as well since she involved another man in your marriage and broke her wedding vows. Doesn't matter if she meant to or not. 

MC is a waste of time effort and energy as long as posom is still actively involved with your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You need to file.
Hard 180 and filing. ASAP.

You don't share. Period.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

daggeredheart said:


> "The fact that she would try to fill a need/void in her life with a stranger she met in a game online instead of someone with whom she has children, a history and at one time love and trust--this should tell you there is something seriously wrong with her thought processes/judgement. Before you can work on the marriage, she may need to work on her own issues individually."<~~~~~~This
> 
> 
> The above quote is crucial and my spouse did the same and it's been the hardest part bar none in our recovery. I just can't wrap my brain around it despite a year and half of counseling and remorse on his part. It's like someone announcing they are a alien from another planet.
> ...


I'm going to disagree.

Falling in love/infatuation this way was EASY. Turning toward a real person with whom there is a history and a pile of issues is DIFFICULT.

Falling for someone online is no different than falling for someone anywhere else. The exact same processes are occurring. The same chemicals. 

People like people who make them feel good about themselves. People like people they have fun with. People like to avoid pain and they gravitate toward things that make them happy.

Negotiating turning an online thing into something tangible is no different than say, moving for a new job. These are details that can be worked out. 

It'd be better to accept that a person in one of these situations has fallen in love or become infatuated just like a real person even if you don't like it than to try to paint them as an alien life form. Because they aren't an alien life form. 

You can certainly never understand someone when you latch onto the idea that they are crazy, stupid or beneath you, just because you don't like what they did. 

I would also wonder if the wayward didn't feel that they were classified that way prior to their cheating as well.

--------

I am in no way endorsing or agreeing with cheating of any form, through any medium. 

But I'm flabbergasted when being human is marginalized like this. It isn't helpful because it covers up underlying truths.

People marginalize because it is EASY. Facing the larger questions is DIFFICULT.

Hmmm....


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

illwill said:


> Why would you accept being plan b, after all she has done? After those cruel comments, how can she ever be worthy of you?


I try to understand things from points of view other than my own. If I were being confronted for cheating, I would feel like an animal trapped in a corner. I would probably say things that I do not necessarily think are true. And I would probably say some hurtful things in order to prevent myself from being hurt by the guilt that I have been carrying around for months from having an affair. Sure she said cruel things, but I think I was prepared for that. I know that I have said some really cruel things whenever I was feeling hurt by her. While the things she said were unpleasant, I do realize that we are both under extreme emotional stress and many things that are said are not necessarily how we really feel.



illwill said:


> What is your dealbreaker?


If she had a PA or it becomes a PA, it is over immediately.




illwill said:


> You are basicly waiting for her to finish her sample. And youll be there waiting. And she knows this. So, why should she stop?


I wouldn't necessarily say I am waiting for her to stop. Feelings are a faucet that does not shut off immediately. First it flows, then it slows, the it drips, then it shuts off. I am turning off the faucet, but these things take time. There is no real reason for her to stop, unless she wants to. I will be doing nothing other than removing myself from this relationship from this point onward. Her family knows about the affair now from the letters I sent out a couple days ago. A couple of them have called me to promise me that they are going to try to help. In fact her uncle told me just a few hours ago that if we get a divorce I should try to get 100% custody of the kids and stop supporting her in the mean time (I had to explain that my state doesn't legally allow me to that). They are a pretty religious family, and they definitely do not like what is going on. They are organizing a way to approach this to get the maximum effectiveness. Her father and the uncle that called me both had their ex-wives cheat on them. So they were VERY supportive and gave a lot of advice, much of it the same things I've been reading here.



illwill said:


> What date has to come and pass for you to take yourself away as a option?


I don't think I can answer this.. Right now, I am still too emotionally confused to give a logical response. There is no mathematical formula to this equation, because it is based on feelings. Whenever I've emptied the emotional bank, I will know. Only then will I be able to say 'Its beyond the point of no return.'



BobSimmons said:


> You went to MC, your wife said she wouldn't stop the affair.. and then you went out to a party?


I pretty much knew how she was going to respond, so I had already decided it is time I start focusing my energy back into social life instead of continuing to put that into marital life.



warlock07 said:


> Is the OM actually a 38 year old single man ?


You can be anyone you want to be on the internet. There are no guarantees. But lets just look at the facts, plays MMO-game for nearly as much time as she did (40-50 hours per week). I found a picture of him, he is like 300 pound man with a massive neck beard. And to further the stereotype, there were boxes of mountain dew in his dirty house/apartment/mother's basement. I extracted the metadata from the photo, traced the associated IP address and the geo coordinates, and found he is indeed living where he told her. So I'd give it probably 80% chance he is a 38 yr old single man. */Edit - Just did like 15 minutes of interneting, have concluded that indeed this man lives with his parents still. I was able to recover some phone numbers and his parent's names. I can see benefits to exposing affair to them, unsure if I should. your thoughts?*



anchorwatch said:


> And the reactions to exposure and the D papers were?


Well her family/friends haven't contacted her yet (that I know of) and I did not give her divorce papers because I don't want her to get a lawyer. So I did the only thing I could do to give the same impression:

I've often reminded her of the symbolism of our wedding rings and how it relates to our commitment to each other and our love for one another. When she refused to end the other relationship, she also suggested that we go to MC to work on communication. I said 'I am not going to go to MC if you are still in a relationship with another person, and since you are not willing to end that relationship, I am ending ours'. Then I took off my wedding ring and placed it on the couch right next to her. She cried.



clipclop2 said:


> People like people who make them feel good about themselves. People like people they have fun with. People like to avoid pain and they gravitate toward things that make them happy......I would also wonder if the wayward didn't feel that they were classified that way prior to their cheating as well.....But I'm flabbergasted when being human is marginalized like this. It isn't helpful because it covers up underlying truths.


I think that there is a lot of wisdom in these words. I know this is the CWI area of the forum and there tends to be a lot of wolf-packing against the waywards. But there doesn't really seem to be a lot of discussion as to how it got to that point. 

The path that I see my wife took to get to this affair: Pre-existing low self esteem -> depression from moving -> post-baby depression -> lack of church -> lack of friends -> marriage problems-> feeling of worthlessness -> feeling that the things she did were not good enough -> deep depression -> inability to communicate problems with husband. VULNERABILITY. New hobby -> new friends -> POSOM show interest -> WW doesn't stop it -> builds.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Prepare yourself to walk away.

What is your plan now ?

Go ahead with exposing the OM to his parents. 

Does your wife know how he actually looks like ?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Prepare yourself to walk away.
> 
> What is your plan now ?
> 
> ...


This seems very important to me.

*You can be anyone you want to be on the internet. There are no guarantees. But lets just look at the facts, plays MMO-game for nearly as much time as she did (40-50 hours per week). I found a picture of him, he is like 300 pound man with a massive neck beard. And to further the stereotype, there were boxes of mountain dew in his dirty house/apartment/mother's basement. I extracted the metadata from the photo, traced the associated IP address and the geo coordinates, and found he is indeed living where he told her. So I'd give it probably 80% chance he is a 38 yr old single man. /Edit - Just did like 15 minutes of interneting, have concluded that indeed this man lives with his parents still. I was able to recover some phone numbers and his parent's names. I can see benefits to exposing affair to them, unsure if I should. your thoughts?*

Does your wife know all this about him? Does he have a job? Did you look him up on spokeo.com and like websites? How you got your info could help a lot of people.

Good luck and prayers for your family

Chap


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Does your wife know all this about him? Does he have a job? Did you look him up on spokeo.com and like websites? How you got your info could help a lot of people.


Okay so about 2 weeks ago, the kids and I needed to stay at her apartment for the night because a pipe burst in the family apt. That night she allowed me to use her laptop, so I was just looking through all the photos of our kids and the family late at night because I couldn't sleep. Well I came across a couple pictures of a person who I didn't know but were saved in a folder with screenshots from her game. So I sent copies to myself and then just extracted the metadata. 

One example of a place you can do extract metadata from a picture is http://www.metapicz.com/ [simple search can bring you to others]. You can get lots of information from just a photo:
GPS coordinates
date & time
what kind of camera was used
IP address

Second I already knew his name and since it was an uncommon name you can do a google search with quotes "OM's name". Within minutes I was able to determine how many people were in his family, How old his parents are, where he lived, all phone numbers he and his parents have been associated with, when and where he graduated high school, any groups or clubs he belongs to, and so much more. Which is a big reason I don't do social media and I try to remain anonymous online.

Using the above information, or any you have you can get more information from other websites such as: 
www.WhitePages.com
http://radaris.com
State and county public record websites

So if you ever would like to know more about someone you can easily find it using very little. Like a name or a digital photo.

So to answer the question, yeah she knows what he looks like. And yes he has a job, which I didn't really look into where but it seems to be something dealing with programming. I don't know what she knows about him though, nor do I really care anymore.

This morning when she came to pick up the kids she woke me up pissed as hell. One of her cousins sent her an email regarding the affair. Again my WW said she felt violated that I would go tell people about our relationship. I said "You have been cheating on me for months, I think I am the one that has been more violated. We built this relationship on openness and honesty, you decided to bring another person into the picture. So I decided to be honest about our relationship to other people too." She asked me exactly what did I tell people and who I told. I replied "I told people the truth, that you have been having an affair. And I told everyone who will be affected by this in the future and anyone willing to listen." She definitely isn't happy about that and started crying. She also got upset that I now have a better relationship with her father than she does. I said a relationship takes willingness on both sides, when is the last time you even called your dad? She didn't answer. Instead she tried to say more hurtful things which harmlessly deflected off my 'armor' of honesty and acceptance of responsibility. It is now just Day 2 since I confronted her on the affair, and I can see that this road to a new life will be easier than I thought.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You are handling it so very well. What makes you so sure that it is not a physical affair?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

TBO.

You are very impressive.

Nuff said.

WL


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> Okay so about 2 weeks ago, the kids and I needed to stay at her apartment for the night because a pipe burst in the family apt. That night she allowed me to use her laptop, so I was just looking through all the photos of our kids and the family late at night because I couldn't sleep. Well I came across a couple pictures of a person who I didn't know but were saved in a folder with screenshots from her game. So I sent copies to myself and then just extracted the metadata.
> 
> One example of a place you can do extract metadata from a picture is online metadata and exif viewer [simple search can bring you to others]. You can get lots of information from just a photo:
> GPS coordinates
> ...


You are not talking about your relationship with your wife. you are talking about her relationship with another person,


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

jim123 said:


> You are not talking about your relationship with your wife. you are talking about her relationship with another person,


When an external relationship causes problems/comes between a married couple and their children, it becomes part of the married relationship landscape. I have no regrets speaking out about it.

I just had a long conversation with her dad. He wants both of us to be happy, and ideally he wants both of us to be happy together. He told me that from the letter that she received from her cousin and the conversation he had with her, he thinks she is starting to soften her stance and is starting to understand the guilt and the consequences. 

He told me that there are 2 things preventing us from talking, 
1. I won't go to MC with the other guy in the picture. To which he completely understands. Like I said his ex-wife cheated on him too. He said he did the same thing I am doing now and he is concerned because it didn't get him anywhere. 
2. He said she is so hardened because she believes that I am only improving myself because she said it is over, and she wants me to go to individual therapy. She is partially right because I didn't fully realize how deep or wide the problems were until she finally said something in November. But it is difficult to fix something if you don't know it is broken. 

One of the things that I've been working on for a few months is being okay with asking/taking help from other people. I mean, I am here talking about my life to random internet people, something I have never done before. I've been pretty self-reliant all my life and I admittedly projected that ability from myself onto my wife. I did see some smalls signs of problems but my thinking was that she/we would be able to sort it out on our own. Without her communicating the things she saw as issues, I had figured they were resolved. I do not really have any interest in individual counseling, but I did made a commitment to myself to do whatever it takes to make things better. I am just so torn right now, and do not know what to do. If this is the path that leads to R, do I just let it go? I do understand that if I do go to IC, there is no agreement that she would stop talking to that guy. And just that fact would really take a lot out of me. I can see that I am falling for the 'if I just try a little harder' line of thinking. But what if it really is just that? I haven't even made a decision yet and I can already feel the regret starting to build just by thinking about turning it down and continuing the path to moving on. My young children are the biggest motivator for me and I don't know if I could make it knowing that I didn't try everything to make it work out. I didn't have a father around, so one of my life goals was to raise a family in a unified house.

I can imagine the negative responses already, to even consider this course of action. But it isn't so clear cut with my set of goals & values. So if you can, please give some reasoning behind why you think it would be a good idea or a bad idea for me to go to IC.

I was watching Mr. Roger's neighborhood the other day with my boy when Rogers said _“I hope you're proud of yourself for the times you've said "yes," when all it meant was extra work for you and was seemingly helpful only to someone else.”_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I have two brief thoughts:

1) If you go to Individual Counseling, it's rarely a bad idea. I mean there are bad counselors, etc. but working on yourself is still a good idea, whether she's along for the ride or not. I would remind you that not all IC is with a psychiatrist or psychologist: you can also counsel with a pastor or spiritual leader and/or a life coach. Thus, I'd suggest you pick a person who will help you become the man you have the potential to be, and whether she comes along for the ride or not is up to her.

2) I would still insist on ending of the affair. That is to say, you can go to IC all you want, and if you put effort into the IC you'll grow. But no matter how you may grow as an individual, your marriage WILL die if there is a third person involved. The affair MUST end. PERIOD. 

And I would suggest that it is not reasonable for the person committing adultery to "set the terms for reconciliation." Right now she's saying she believes you're only changing because she said it's over, but if you went to IC she'd consider coming back. Uhhh...NO! She made a VOW with you, and the vow was that she would forsake all others and give you 100% of her affection and loyalty. You can go to IC--it won't harm you--but before the marriage can ever be repaired, she has to be honoring her vow first. 

So go to IC if you feel like it...but don't let up on insisting that the affair END 100%. Then VERIFY that the affair has ended.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP. Are you an engineer, analyst, programmer or other math / pattern / spatial centric career?


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

If this is the hardest time of your life, doesn't IC make sense whether you reconcile or not. 

You need it for yourself.

And you can be an great Dad even if you do not see them every day. You can call and skype every night. It many ways you will cherish them more.

The bigger issue is the awful example you are setting for your kids. They need a strong role model with respect. Making them think this is normal will do damage down the road. And dont think for a second kids do not pick up on this stuff.

Your kids will sense the tension in the household. They are better with two peaceful households than one in constant conflict.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

TBO,

I would suggest IC simply because of the stress this has put on you. If nothing else, learning how to release the stress and anger will help you to be a better father. You can go to IC but not tell your WW. This is for you and you alone. It has no bearing on her or your marriage. You could jump through 1000x hoops and she still won't come back to the marriage until she decides to.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to find a counselor that can deal with your wifes infidelity too, not just issues you may have. Iheartlife, a former poster, said to find a good counselor, contact the local organizations that deal with sex, sex/addiction problems. According to her, they will have a list of counselors they have experience with that have proven themselves.

What cheaters do to their dailies is one of the ultimate traumatic events of life. Most people feel only losing a child is worse. This means it is also necessary to be counseled for PTSD.

Good luck and prayers.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I suspect that there is a palpable issue of pride with your WW. I definitely would not go to MC unless she is (as far as you know) completely out of the affair. She, however, may be stubborn about this, not just because of her emotional attachment but also because of her wounded pride. Her H has exposed her to her family and friends and she may need some time to back out of the affair without her tail between her legs. This is all a matter of appearance, of course, but appearance is probably important to her.

I would maintain the condition that she break it off, but sit back and watch as her feelings and actions evolve in the next week.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> I suspect that there is a palpable issue of pride with your WW. I definitely would not go to MC unless she is (as far as you know) completely out of the affair. She, however, may be stubborn about this, not just because of her emotional attachment but also because of her wounded pride. Her H has exposed her to her family and friends and she may need some time to back out of the affair without her tail between her legs. This is all a matter of appearance, of course, but appearance is probably important to her.
> 
> I would maintain the condition that she break it off, but sit back and watch as her feelings and actions evolve in the next week.


Actually she called me last night and said she was ending her relationship with OM. She said yesterday she went through hell getting all the phone calls from her family trying to explain things.

However she also said that she still wants a D. And she needs to be able to communicate with me since we have children together. So she asked again that we go to counseling together to work on communication, not to repair our marriage.

I think it is good that she is doing the right thing by ending the other relationship. I am willing to end our marriage amicably but I will still need to have proof that it is really over before I can agree to going with her. I am thinking that it couldn't hurt to work on communicating with her, because we do need to not be fighting. Even if we are not together.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> I'm going to disagree.
> 
> Falling in love/infatuation this way was EASY. Turning toward a real person with whom there is a history and a pile of issues is DIFFICULT.
> 
> ...



Does your opinion still apply when it's a online love of two weeks? When they have never skyped, met or know for sure if the person on the other end is who they say they are? 

In my case he never got to see if she was real because she refused to skype....hmmmmm...


Of course online love can be real otherwise that Nigerian scams wouldn't be so successful after all these years. No one is doubting that your feelings can happen


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Nucking Futs said:


> OMG, you're paying her spousal support?!
> 
> There, the obligatory freakout. You're doing the right thing. It's a strategy, not weakness.


Yep. A buddy of mine did the exact same thing. He agreed to pay his ex more than his lawyer said she'd get in court with the agreement he got the kids the most. He maintains it was worth it.

The funny thing is that he got disabled a couple of years down the road. He went back to court at that time, and showed how he had the kids more than 80% of the time. He then got the child support payments eliminated.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

> He said she is so hardened because she believes that I am only improving myself because she said it is over, and she wants me to go to individual therapy. She is partially right because I didn't fully realize how deep or wide the problems were until she finally said something in November. But it is difficult to fix something if you don't know it is broken.


dont buy into this line a typical bull pucky. this is just WS justification of their choice to cheat.

why does she want to save the marriage thats sooo broken? why does she want you back? i mean you were so horrible she had to go cheat right? she should be happy about all this.

dude......slam the door shut HARD on that shiat right now when she tries to blame shift this on you. if she doesnt like it when you exposed......well then she shouldn't have been screwing around. this is HER fault. not because there were some "issues". i'm so sick of that over played excuse.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> Actually she called me last night and said she was ending her relationship with OM. She said yesterday she went through hell getting all the phone calls from her family trying to explain things.
> 
> However she also said that she still wants a D. *And she needs to be able to communicate with me since we have children together.* So she asked again that we go to counseling together to work on communication, not to repair our marriage.
> 
> I think it is good that she is doing the right thing by ending the other relationship. I am willing to end our marriage amicably but I will still need to have proof that it is really over before I can agree to going with her. I am thinking that it couldn't hurt to work on communicating with her, because we do need to not be fighting. Even if we are not together.


Apparently she is unaware that is what lawyers and Contact Centres are for.

She still wants a divorce? Then she gets one. But on *your* terms.:FIREdevil:


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

I would recommend against going to counseling with your (presumably) stbxw for several reasons.

First, men and women mean different things about communication. Women's definition of communication is much deeper than men's; it means that you understand how they are feeling, and often requires an empathetic response. I suspect that in this case you will have to rehash your mutual marital problems and get nowhere unless you agree with your stbxw's views about whose fault it is. I don't think she's really coming into counseling willing to change.

Second, it may just be a smokescreen for her to find a way to restore the marriage without admitting she did anything wrong. She may feel that if she can get you onto neutral turf she can get you to agree to recovery on her terms. From your perspective I don't think that that would be a good starting point for a healthy marriage.

Finally, your current strategy is working. The pressure from exposure has caused her to at least say she's ditching the OM, and to reach out for some level of counseling. Stick with what you're doing.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

BWBill said:


> I would recommend against going to counseling with your (presumably) stbxw for several reasons.
> 
> First, men and women mean different things about communication. Women's definition of communication is much deeper than men's; it means that you understand how they are feeling, and often requires an empathetic response. I suspect that in this case you will have to rehash your mutual marital problems and get nowhere unless you agree with your stbxw's views about whose fault it is. I don't think she's really coming into counseling willing to change.
> 
> ...


WOW. AMEN. this sounds like a man who has BEEN THERE and as having been there myself, this is EXACTLY what happened in MC to me. it was all just a big blame shift.

i was told.......never bring it up again. i was 50% at fault for her affair. she made a "mistake" and the best one yet.... she "probably" would take it back if she could.

yes those are some gems from my MC's mouth. 

save your money. stay here, read a lot, learn from the wisdom of other peoples mistakes.

even if you WANTED to R with your wife, i firmly belive now, you MUST divorce your wife. otherwise you just show her you are the ULTIMATE DOORMAT. may as well just say, "more please".


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Please don't tell me you actually believe she ended the affair with the OM simply because she got calls from her family. I've never seen that happen here. It's simply underground for now. I've seen this many, many times here. She just says its over to placate you and her family.
> 
> You don't need to work on communication with her. You communicate through email only. That way there is a paper trail.


:iagree:
Or text and you save everything on your end.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> Actually she called me last night and said she was ending her relationship with OM. She said yesterday she went through hell getting all the phone calls from her family trying to explain things.
> 
> However she also said that she still wants a D. And she needs to be able to communicate with me since we have children together. So she asked again that we go to counseling together to work on communication, not to repair our marriage.
> 
> I think it is good that she is doing the right thing by ending the other relationship. I am willing to end our marriage amicably but I will still need to have proof that it is really over before I can agree to going with her. I am thinking that it couldn't hurt to work on communicating with her, because we do need to not be fighting. Even if we are not together.


Nope. Don't do it. Just straight up divorce her a$$. Only communicate via email about kids (unless it's an emergency, i.e. they're really sick, lost, in trouble or something). 

You seeing other women? Cause if not, get right on that one. 

But just divorce and pretend she is a non-entity in your life. She's just there to be there. 

I mean if you can guarantee she doesn't fight at all in the divorce by going to "counseling" to "repair" the "relationship" or "communication" then I say. You gotta do what you gotta do. 

But to be honest, your wife sounds like a truly entitled ho who's gonna fight you tooth n' nail. 

So best be prepared.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> Actually she called me last night and said she was ending her relationship with OM. She said yesterday she went through hell getting all the phone calls from her family trying to explain things.
> 
> However she also said that she still wants a D. And she needs to be able to communicate with me since we have children together. So she asked again that we go to counseling together to work on communication, not to repair our marriage.
> 
> I think it is good that she is doing the right thing by ending the other relationship. I am willing to end our marriage amicably but I will still need to have proof that it is really over before I can agree to going with her. I am thinking that it couldn't hurt to work on communicating with her, because we do need to not be fighting. Even if we are not together.


So she "ended" the relationship, to get y'alls of her back, but she still wants a divorce.

So she didn't end the relationship and it's gone underground or at least they are laying low with all the heat, but she's still divorcing you because she's detached from you now.

Nothing has changed. You still lose.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Ask her how she can communicate with a 300 pound leach, a loser living in his parents basement but she can't communicate with her husband. Oh yeah, you are not that kind of loser. Ask her what a guy like that likes to talk about. His social life?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> However she also said that she still wants a D. And she needs to be able to communicate with me since we have children together. So she asked again that we go to counseling together to work on communication, not to repair our marriage.


They all say they want a D because they think it will scare YOU and shut YOU up and make you stop being strong. Ignore it.

As for MC, say "Fine, I'll be glad to go - as soon as you take all passwords off all your electronics and I have access to them 24/7 to be able to prove you have indeed ended your affair, as soon as you move back home, and as soon as you write a NC letter that I will read, approve, and send myself to the OM. As soon as I discover further contact, MC will end and you'll get a letter from my lawyer."


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> They all say they want a D because they think it will scare YOU and shut YOU up and make you stop being strong. Ignore it.
> 
> As for MC, say "Fine, I'll be glad to go - as soon as you take all passwords off all your electronics and I have access to them 24/7 to be able to prove you have indeed ended your affair, as soon as you move back home, and as soon as you write a NC letter that I will read, approve, and send myself to the OM. As soon as I discover further contact, MC will end and you'll get a letter from my lawyer."


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

At this point I would pass on the MC, she is going to want that forum to blame shift and justify her actions. Do not let her. MC is for rebuilding a destroyed marriage. She is looking to teach you how to communicate with her and not the other way around.

Talk with her all you need to about the kids, D and money but not in MC


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

i don't see the point in counseling unless R is a possibility. 

and she said she WAS ENDING or HAS ENDED the A? big difference.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Don't go, tell her emotions are raw now, trust is gone, and MC would be counter-productive for you. Down the road after divorce if it becomes obvious that it would be beneficial for the kids to go you can consider it then.

I think it is her pride still wanting divorce, don't budge or she will never break.

/snark on

You could tell her that she conducted a whole romance over electronic media and you expect that is all you will need to communicate with her!

/snark off

Hey I wish you well, but DO NOT GO!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BobSimmons said:


> So she "ended" the relationship, to get y'alls of her back, but she still wants a divorce.
> 
> So she didn't end the relationship and it's gone underground or at least they are laying low with all the heat, but she's still divorcing you because she's detached from you now.
> 
> Nothing has changed. You still lose.


Unless OM could not stand the heat and bailed out? Or how about: "But, dear, you told me you had been separated from your husband for a couple of years? So you basically lied to me? Sorry, but I can't date liar."


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## Rev. Clonn (Nov 11, 2013)

I would agree to counseling, but I would require full disclosure to you, No contact letter, You contacting OM and his parents telling them you will sue for "Alienation of Affection" and attach the 'rents house because they allow it to go forward if he is in contact with her again. 
Even if you can't do it say it. 
Then I would agree to see a pastor or husband friendly councilor of your choice. In my MC we would set goals and objective by the second session where both parties were willing to talk. If she doesn't meet the goals then I would say we are done. Here it would qualify as the pre Divorce sessions required before setting custody.

Also I wanted to point out that as backwards as it Feels the 180 actually saves marriages not just lets you feel better separating that you can go forwards. Read the Mindful Attraction Plan by Athol Kay, it will make this relationship better or make the next one awesome.
I will pray for you and yours, and I hope for the best outcome for you and your littles.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

Recap: 
She had said she ended the affair a couple days after exposure which occurred on Feb 6th. She said she wanted to go to counseling to work on communication.

Update:
I decided I didn't want to go/pay for counseling after she repeated that she wants to go to counseling but not to fix the marriage.

Today - discovered evidence that the affair continues, confronted. She said she did cut it off "for at least a week". I lol'd. Sh!ts over, I'm not looking back ever.

New plan:
- Minimize 'rehabilitative alimony' to her until June (she is suppose to have a job after this point) after June 1st, she gets nothing.

- Continue demonstration of payments for child support, maximize my time spent with the children

- Continue the logs I've been keeping regarding the children. Nutrition, bathing, pickup-drop off times, activities, and any time she shows up late/doesn't show to pick up the kids. She feeds them the same 2 things every single day, either frozen waffles, or peanut butter jelly.

With her admitting suicidal thoughts, history of mental illness, poor nutrition provided to children, lack of motivation for getting a job, and the fact she only watches the kids {0 days per week legally or 33% of the time if you want to go by hours}, I believe there may be a case to remove her from the picture of our family. Maybe completely, if not, then as much as possible. I believe this is best for the children given the current state.

/edit - Thank you for everyone that spoke to me when I was at my weakest. I am stronger now. If you know psychology, I am an ISTP. Emotions were really tough for me to handle at that critical moment, and I was really hurt. I've since returned to my emotion-evading self and will be just fine from now on. Again, thanks.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By The BetrayedOne*
> Continue the logs I've been keeping regarding the children. Nutrition, bathing, pickup-drop off times, activities, and any time she shows up late/doesn't show to pick up the kids. She feeds them the same 2 things every single day, either frozen waffles, or peanut butter jelly.
> 
> With her admitting suicidal thoughts, history of mental illness, poor nutrition provided to children, lack of motivation for getting a job, and the fact she only watches the kids {0 days per week legally or 33% of the time if you want to go by hours}, I believe there may be a case to remove her from the picture of our family. Maybe completely, if not, then as much as possible. I believe this is best for the children given the current state.


*Consult an attorney, this is very important since there is no hope of an R, so that you can get the best documentation to prove what you have written above. Get documentation that will be what the court accepts.*


You, Your Children, and your finances should be the only thing that matters for now. Do not get sucked in with her tears, words, or threats. She is on the road for her life to get a lot worse, especially if you get the right documentation and win in court or out of court


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

OP, I did not see you told the children the truth.

I would strongly advise you to do so. It will hurt their soul if the experience is burned into their brain, always they will be on the lookout for something not being right, because they learned evil can be around the corner and the person they trust most may hide it from them.

Tell it plain and simple.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> She said she did cut it off "for at least a week". I lol'd. Sh!ts over, I'm not looking back ever.


LOL. Please tell me you asked her "You know, during your period doesn't count?"


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Unless OM could not stand the heat and bailed out? Or how about: "But, dear, you told me you had been separated from your husband for a couple of years? So you basically lied to me? Sorry, but I can't date liar."


Maybe, but the man is getting sex, hard to turn down and she still wants divorce. We don't know if they have indeed broken up but we do know she wants the divorce. 

I tend not to believe the active cheater still in the fog.

P.S Having read the last reply, surprise, surprise affair still not over.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Betrayed One,

You rate as one of the most successful TAM BS's. You managed to keep an even keel despite the pain. Paying spousal support turned out to be a shrewd move that took the wind out of her sails.

Given that the OM is physically repulsive, one presumes that physical consumation of the relationship may be a shock for her. Perhaps she won't mind the rolls of fat, but if she doesn't find being pinned beneath the blubber, well, it just shows that she has very poor self esteem.

What would you rate her in terms of looks on a scale of 10? What ranking would she give herself?

Her inability to parent well shouts out: "I am dysfunctional!"

She is going to sink further down.

Her proposal for MC to improve communication may be her half conscious way of cake eating because she wants to avoid being isolated in the affair. Her AP is not going to be welcomed into her family, in part for what he has done (destroyed a family with small children), and in part because he is literally and figuratively a gross dude.

The strategy you are pursuing is going to work for you, probably. Of course, you are worried about your WW as the mother of your children. Unfortunately, she may end up troubled for the rest of her life and never perform to her potential as parent.

One comment from her about the uncertainty she felt about you even when dating. There could be some truth in this. She may have felt that she was marrying you because you were a good catch in many ways but she wanted more. No doubt she also loved you but she is a dissatisfied, insecure person. And as you noted she could not cope.

You may consider writing a letter asking her forgiveness. In this you mention in a dignified way all of the major shortcomings that you now see in retrospect. Do not mention the affair or criticise her in anyway. The letter is to help you secure the closure you have largely achieved.

You continue to 180. Just stay polite and keep her foolish cake eating at a distance. You don't want to carry her burdens and feel sorry for her for decades.

It would not surprize me if she begins to seek R, but even with the OM gone, you cannot entertain that idea, unless she changes. It is unlikely that she can mount any serious attempt. You have to look forward to finding a new wife.

I find it very odd that she has never managed to meet the OM in person to consumate their love. How do you explain this?

She is not going to enjoy dating with two small children. Pvssy can attract many men, but it will not keep a quality guy who asks why she in her mess. She will end up abused and used or in another messed up relationship with a co-dependent.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Uh. A few nits but... forget about it.

It aint often but. I got nuthin. 

Very well played in light of very bad circumstances. Maybe you should head FEMA.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

As far as updates go, I had her come over after the children went to bed and we went over a list of our material items. We were able to come up with some sort of 1st round agreement, but we will likely need to go through it again because we missed some items. Overall she is getting to keep more 'stuff' I'll keep more of the investments. Which if fine because I don't like to have a lot of stuff. She won't have a job to buy more stuff and I don't want to lose 50% of all my investments.

LongWalk, thank you for your lengthy response. I'll try to answer some of your questions.



LongWalk said:


> well, it just shows that she has very poor self esteem.
> 
> What would you rate her in terms of looks on a scale of 10? What ranking would she give herself?


If 5 is average in every sense and if we assume the population distribution on the scale is heavier in the center, in terms of look she is a solid 6 probably closer to 7. She is good looking, but she is no Scarlett Johansson. She most definitely has low self esteem and would probably rate herself a 4 or lower.



LongWalk said:


> One comment from her about the uncertainty she felt about you even when dating. There could be some truth in this. She may have felt that she was marrying you because you were a good catch in many ways but she wanted more. No doubt she also loved you but she is a dissatisfied, insecure person. And as you noted she could not cope.


Retrospectively, I am pretty sure that I was the one who settled, and she was the one who reached. There were other prettier women interested in me at the time we first met and she definitely knew it because they were not shy about it. I chose to date her among the others because she had portrayed a stronger commitment to family. So I would agree that she likely felt I was a good catch. I know that one regret she has is that she gave into the pressure caused by the interest that the other women were showing. She allowed our relationship advance more quickly than she would have liked. At the time she was 21 and had only had a couple high school boyfriends before, she was pretty sheltered. But in the end she made her decision not me and probably blames me for that. Either way it doesn't matter, it is in the past now.



LongWalk said:


> It would not surprize me if she begins to seek R, but even with the OM gone, you cannot entertain that idea, unless she changes. It is unlikely that she can mount any serious attempt. You have to look forward to finding a new wife.
> 
> I find it very odd that she has never managed to meet the OM in person to consumate their love. How do you explain this?


There is not chance for R now. I won't allow it even if miracles happened, she had her chance and lied.

Well I am thinking that the other relationship is giving her some sort of validation and making her feel good about the fact that other people want her. You don't need to see a person to have them whisper in your ear all the things you want to hear. I am sure there are many WS on this forum that can agree.



BobSimmons said:


> Maybe, but the man is getting sex, hard to turn down and she still wants divorce.


It wasn't a PA. I am still 99% certain on that.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> There is not chance for R now. I won't allow it even if miracles happened, she had her chance and lied.


It's good that you know where you stand.

The likelihood that she will quickly shift to remorse is small.

When she said that she would dump the OM but still wanted a divorce do you think she was saying to herself "the fantasy is ending but I don't want to dwell on my failings, yet."

There are plenty of instances of TAM WW's changing their minds and hinting at R. The offer of sex is common way to cancel the betrayal. Carlton is a good example.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> When she said that she would dump the OM but still wanted a divorce do you think she was saying to herself "the fantasy is ending but I don't want to dwell on my failings, yet."


I think she intended to say that she would be willing to end the other relationship temporarily. She seems to have intentions of continuing the relationship after we finish a separation agreement. I don't really care if she does. But I do care if she does this while I still am supporting her. The thing that I don't understand is what sort of relationship does she expect to have with the other man after we are through? She can't move to be near him or she won't have the kids. She has affirmed more than once now, recently, that she will go where my job takes me because she wants to be involved with the children. I don't think the other man would move to be near her, if so then he is just as stupid or as desperate for this relationship as she is. But who am I to judge?



LongWalk said:


> There are plenty of instances of TAM WW's changing their minds and hinting at R. The offer of sex is common way to cancel the betrayal. Carlton is a good example.


It would be tempting but I am pretty sure logic would override lust. Either way, after we get all the details of the separation agreement prepared legally and signed, we will be opening the relationship. So she can see who she wants, and I can do the same. So the temptation would be diluted by the possibilities of what is out there anyway. But thank you for the warning.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are a smart guy. Your wife must be pretty unnerved by your relative calm. She has affaired way down. Her issues are deep. You did not see that she was struggling inside probably long before she came undone.

She seems almost fatalistic in her determination to seek fulfillment in what cannot be.

Have you always had such a gap in perceptions?


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

"As far as updates go, I had her come over after the children went to bed and we went over a list of our material items. We were able to come up with some sort of 1st round agreement, but we will likely need to go through it again because we missed some items. Overall she is getting to keep more 'stuff' I'll keep more of the investments. Which if fine because I don't like to have a lot of stuff. She won't have a job to buy more stuff and I don't want to lose 50% of all my investments."

This round goes to you. Funny, since stuff ties you down and investments give you freedom which seems to be bassackwards from what she wants.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

I find myself in a situation now which I did not expect. Nor am I certain if I want. 

Yesterday morning she came over to pick up the kids, late. We argued. Her main points were something to the effect that I wasn't being fair by making her pick up the kids so early in the morning. I was fairly angry that morning and I definitely did not hold words back. One thing led to another and I ended up saying "You were too weak to do the honorable thing and end our relationship before starting another."

My sister is in town, so I had the kids for 3 full days; Fri-Sat-Sun (normally she would have them during the day on Fri and Sat). This was for 2 reasons, 1) so my sister can visit them 2) so wife can have more time to put into her schooling (so she can get a job sooner). I wanted to see if she was doing her part of the bargain by checking on how much progress she made over the weekend. I went to her apartment to pick up the kids yesterday after work, I took my sister with me.

While my sister was putting the kids into the car, I went back inside to ask. Wife pulls up the website, and there wasn't nearly as much done as I would have thought. She did something like 13 hours of class over the 3 day period. Before I could ask wtf, she offered up an explanation saying that the chapters she is on right now are really difficult. She started crying. Between sobs, she said that she doesn't know how she is going to finish school by June, a date we agreed funds would shutoff.

She then did something totally unexpected, she said that she is having second thoughts. I called my sister who was waiting outside and sent her home with the kids and asked her to pick me up later. I sat down and we had a chat. 

She was really emotional the whole time, typically she had been pretty cold in most other encounters. She talked about how wrong and terrible the things she had done were. I asked her why she is having second thoughts. She said it was something I said this morning when we argued (did not specify). She also said that she is trying to think of what would be best for everyone involved. Previously, it was more about what is best for her.

Privately, my point of no return date was April 1st. Here we are a week away from that point and she hints at attempting R. The gate was closed and I was getting ready to put the lock on and now she shows up.

I am sure that you ladies and gentlemen have seen this before. While the above doesn't really give a good play by play, the main points were covered.

My take as to why she is having second thoughts;
*-*We've been preparing separation paperwork for 3 weeks now, during that time she has been focusing on school so she hasn't contacted OM for at least 2.5 weeks. Less endorphins.
*-*With how hard she has been having to work on school, she may be realizing how easy I made life.
*-*I've worked tirelessly on separating the assets and preparing the legal paperwork. This morning I told her that I wanted it completed and signed by the end of the month. Perhaps reality is sinking in.
*-*She went to church.
*-*The day prior, her mom (an adulteress) warned her not to make the same mistakes.
*-*I ran into her at the grocery store the other day, and I was probably more charming than I should have been. I came up behind her and said something like "come here often?" then walked away. She chuckled. (Probably reminded of her of what a smooth operator I am)

I've been on a difficult journey the last several months. I've been pushing this boulder to the top of the mountain trying to get it off her side. For the last couple weeks, I've had this boulder balancing on a point at the top of mountain, waiting for April 1st. The slightest push will give it unstoppable momentum either way. If it gets pushed back to her side, I lose all the gains I've made if it doesn't work out. Or I push it over the mountain and into the sea where there are plenty of fish. It wouldn't be fun to push the boulder up the mountain again.

I thought I was done posting here 3 weeks ago and that I was going to be moving on with my life. I haven't had even the slightest thought about the possibility of R.

There are still many things that would need to happen before we could think about attempting R. But it was nice to hear her apologize and breakdown over the EA.

I have a lot to think about. Is it even worth it anymore? Do I even want it anymore? Would I be happier single with possibilities? What is best for my family? Is this sincere? What are my demands? What do each of us think needs to happen to make it work? Can we happily live with our differences? How can there ever be trust again and when will that happen?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

I'm on my phone so I can't offer a lengthy reply right now. But one thing I do want to say is that whatever happens you will never lose all the gains you've made. You are wiser, stronger and this experience has changed you personally and permanently. If you do decide to reconcile you are not the same man. Therefore the marriage is not the same and quite frankly your wife is not the same. A better marriage can be the result if both if you are willing to put the time and effort into it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I would generally say no but I see you are thinking yes. Sooo going by YOUR apparent desire: 

D and finish it.

THEN date her and try for R. But RESTART THAT alimony clock to protect yourself. She must finish school. Must be 100% and NO complaints transparent and proactively account for all time blah blah blah.

100% sure no PA?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

As person your WW is very together, not. It is one thing to be a high functioning individual who cheats but can keep their life in order. Your wife not really capabable of making it on her own. The website is evidence of her lack of concentration.

As to pushing the rock to other side to watch it roll down, that is only one metaphor. You decide on the metaphor that strikes you as true and helpful.

It looks like she wants R, but it may be better to push further towards divorce to help her think even deeper.

R with a person like your wife is not merely a trust issue. You want her to like herself and to find a happy married life. The cheating is a symptom of her deeper defects as a person. i would insist that she do IC and report her progress in MC. 

Also, the fact that you are able to move on will also be an eye opener for her. You need to go through her phone and email.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did she actually say anything specifically.

More info on the convo:scratchhead:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Finish the divorce. If she still wants you after that, and having to take care of herself, it will be telling.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

B.O.

Is your wife the type to give up if you insist the divorce go through? If, and that's a big if, you do decide you'd like to try reconciling, would it be better if she had hope? Would it motivate her to get IC, MC and be transparent if she could work to save the marriage instead of divorcing and starting from scratch?


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

my thought is that when you first decided to wait the 1 of April ther was enough time to figure things out... maybe she beleiving that the old TBO ((YOU) would've try to R. ..... but when she saw the new you that scared the shxt out of her expecialy now that the time is about to expire.....
So why not say this:
This periode has helped me to understand many things... if you instead wish to R. i cant do that if i'm still married to you. That memory for me is dead, you killed it. We need to start over from 0 and for me to do so we must be divorced.... then we will see


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Emptyshelldad is living with his exWW after divorce. He is no longer monogamous while he expects of his ex. She is free to date but he will not stay with her if she does. Unfair? Perhaps.

What is interesting is that they both love each other and they have a life together. Maybe you will do something similar.


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## DoktorFun (Feb 25, 2014)

turnera said:


> *Finish the divorce. If she still wants you after that, and having to take care of herself, it will be telling.*


*This!^*

Start with her from zero...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Her reasons are wrong reasons. 

Don't reconcile because she is financially strapped and needs your safety.(Even if she says otherwise)

Tell her that you can extend the financial support for a few more months and watch her backtrack on her promise. And extend the support if you have to(and can). Might be less costly in the long run

The last thing you need here is a false reconciliation.

After all that happened, it would be foolish to think a few words you said made such an impact.

Unless you have absolute proof, assume that the affair is continuing. Very easy to hide stuff these days.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> There is not chance for R now. I won't allow it even if miracles happened, she had her chance and lied.


Think about why you said that


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> I find myself in a situation now which I did not expect. Nor am I certain if I want.
> 
> Yesterday morning she came over to pick up the kids, late. We argued. Her main points were something to the effect that I wasn't being fair by making her pick up the kids so early in the morning. I was fairly angry that morning and I definitely did not hold words back. One thing led to another and I ended up saying "You were too weak to do the honorable thing and end our relationship before starting another."
> 
> ...


Dear TBO,

You're asking the right questions. While only you can answer them, especially the ones about what you want and what would make you happier, here are a few thoughts:

It would be better for your children if you and your WW were to reconcile. Numerous studies demonstrate that children from broken homes do worse by just about every measure than children from intact families.

At this point in time, she is probably thinking more about herself than you or her children but there is some indication that she has become to come out of the fog of her affair ("She talked about how wrong and terrible the things she had done were"). That's a good sign.

Now is the time to put you "demands" (I would call them something else when speaking to her, maybe "requirements") on paper. Here's what I suggest:

1) That she end the EA by sending the OM a NC letter, approved and mailed by you.

2) That she give you access to all of her electronic devices and accounts.

3) That she begin IC.

4) That she complete the paper work for the divorce (in case she goes back on her word about anything).

Can you live with your "differences"? Only you can decide that.

Can you ever trust her again? Not for a long time and, even then, not entirely.

As to the suggestion that others have made to go ahead with the divorce and then try to get back together with her afterwards, bear in mind that divorce has a way of turning opponents into enemies. It's rare that couples who have divorced reunite.

My advice would be to talk to her some more and, if you think she sincerely wants a second chance, tell her what your requirements are and see if she agrees to them. If so, put the divorce on hold and see if she follows through. If so, at some point invite her back home and begin MC. If she balks at any or your requirements or at any point she fails to do what she's promised, go ahead with the divorce.

At worst, you will have lost a couple of months time. At best, there is a chance (although probably just an outside chance) you will save your marriage and keep your family together.

Given that your children's future is at stake, I think that's a chance worth taking.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

I would be leery of her sudden "change of heart". I suspect it has more to do with what she'll be loosing, than her just loosing you.

I would still at least file(if you haven't already). Keep working on the aspects of the D, so if it were a false R on her part(highly likely), you have everything lined up and can just pull the trigger on it.

I agree with a previous poster. If she's serious about R, still get the D and you both can start a new.

It also makes it a lot easier to send her packing if she screws up again...


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Sudden change of heart is usually indicative of someone who realize what they're about to lose that does not necessarily mean you and your happiness she could be realizing the financial hardship she's in for and wants more time. Ask your self this* if she had the money do you think she would have said that* think long and hard about that. 



Personally I agree with everyone I would opt for D and try to reconcile afterwards if she truly wants you she should be welling to work things out after divorce.


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## TheBetrayedOne (Feb 3, 2014)

So I spoke to her again today.. where to begin..



weightlifter said:


> 100% sure no PA?


Before it was 98% certain, now it is 100% certain. I found out that the OM bought plane tickets last week to come out here around the middle of next month (which will be the first visit). She told me she plans on calling him tomorrow to tell him to cancel them. More on this later.



warlock07 said:


> > There is not chance for R now. I won't allow it even if miracles happened, she had her chance and lied.
> 
> 
> Think about why you said that


The reason why I said that is because trust is gone. From that point on I was only going to be thinking about moving on. What has changed to make me even hear her out? I don't know. But I do know that the children make it difficult to be so absolute. 



LongWalk said:


> Also, the fact that you are able to move on will also be an eye opener for her.


2 days ago she had said she was having second thoughts because she was thinking of everyone involved. Today she admitted it was actually because I told her that I wanted the separation paperwork signed. 

Just a reminder, she has been going to IC for about 4 months now. 

She told me regardless of what happens she is wants to tell OM to cancel plane tickets until at least December. So she wants to string him along as the backup plan. She says she needs to fix herself so she can have a better relationship with me, the kids, and anyone else. She said it was a mistake to tell him to come out here and she also mentioned that it was a mistake to get into that relationship in the first place.

Then she started crying a lot -again-. She then started begging me to go to MC with her. I told her no, I couldn't go to MC with her because she was still trying to eat her cake and have it. She said she would tell OM no contact while we were going to counseling. IF counseling was working then she would tell him NC forever. Completely unacceptable. Both feet in or both feet out. Side note- she kept referring to this as 'trial MC'. I think I said something like there can be no trial MC if your whole heart isn't into it.

Our marriage was eroded by negligence and poor communication, but that process was accelerated by her infidelity. I'd even say that the infidelity was the killing blow, although she probably thinks it was over before that point. We never had professional help, and that was due to her interest in OM. I offered MC before I found concrete evidence of EA. If the OM isn't completely removed from the equation he is still part of it. If he is still part of it, I will not go to MC.

She wants guarantees; 
-She wants me to go to IC and said if I was committed I would have been going by now. I explained IC costs a lot of money and time that quite frankly I don't have. IC is less of a 'want-to-go' and more of a 'willing-to-go-if-blahblah'. I can self-help in the meantime. (This forum is a prime example)
-The thing I mentioned about the OM/MC earlier. But she doesn't seem to understand that I want guarantees. Perhaps she doesn't understand that it is disrespectful to me to ask to go to MC while OM is still a part of her life. I've directly said this to her 4-5 times but message not received.

She said something like "You just want me to burn that bridge and if it doesn't work out then I have no one." I didn't comment back on this, I think I just left because she was getting so heated. But she is/has been a dependent type.



weightlifter and MANY others said:


> D and finish it. THEN date her and try for R.


I never had really even thought of this as on option because I am usually the all-or-none type. But the more that I think about it, this seems like the best choice, even if we do go to MC.. There is a lot of symbolism here that I like. Trust is gone so the marriage is gone, even if the relationship continues. If she wants to be married again, she will have to earn that trust. And for me to remarry her that would definitely take a lot of trust (years or longer). Effectively I'd be demoting her from wife to girlfriend (or less), but I can't really think of a better way to actively keep her in check and let her know that her behavior was completely unacceptable? If we do decide to give it another shot, it may be beneficial for both of us to start from nothing. Both of us would definitely try harder. If I even want to be with her at all..


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> *She told me regardless of what happens she is wants to tell OM to cancel plane tickets until at least December.*
> 
> *IF counseling was working then she would tell him NC forever.*
> 
> *She wants guarantees;*


I can't believe that she came right out and told you that she won't tell the OM to cancel the flight. Just postpone it.

You've got nothing for a R to work if this is the case. It's hard to see who's the plan B, you, or him...

I stick by what I said earlier. Divorce her and make her work for it. She floats, or she sinks. The fear of losing you apparently is not enough for her to give up on her new love interest. She's going to have to see you going before you'll know if she's either "all in, or all out"...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> I offered MC before I found concrete evidence of EA. If the OM isn't completely removed from the equation he is still part of it. If he is still part of it, I will not go to MC.
> 
> She wants guarantees;
> -She wants me to go to IC and said if I was committed I would have been going by now. I explained IC costs a lot of money and time that quite frankly I don't have. IC is less of a 'want-to-go' and more of a 'willing-to-go-if-blahblah'. I can self-help in the meantime. (This forum is a prime example)
> ...


The entitlement is amazing isn't it? She cheats, then she wants to set terms for R. :rofl:

You're absolutely right. Either NC forever, or no dice. If anyone sets the terms, its you, and you have. 

She's out there. Trial MC? Seriously? If MC is working, THEN she'll go NC with OM? OMG. The batsh!t crazy crap they come up with. :scratchhead:


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Don't lose your temper with her. That will not improve her ability to think. The calmer you lay out the boundaries the fairer they will seem to her.

You might say to her: "I appreciate your honesty in saying that you will not just give up the idea of OM as a potential SO. However, as a husband I am not willing to compete to win you. Our marriage is commitment to exclusivity. If we divorce or separate with the intention of divorce then you can date anyone you want. Heck, if we are divorced, even we can date if we want to. 

"MC is like medical treatment to save our marriage. Do you think it will work if I start seeing other women to give myself options in case it fails? If I signed up for a dating site and started looking at the profiles of divorced MILF would that make you enthusiastic about MC?"


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

TBO:

For complicity in breaking up your marriage, the OM deserves some punishment.

*Give him his punishment – let him have her.


*P.S.: I apologize for the flippancy. But what farcical Reconciliation effort is this - after months of MC (during which she will keep the OM hanging beside, and you trudging along), she will judge whether it will work out with you, or him, and then, choose accordingly?

Suppose you tell her: All right.* But during the MC, you will date another woman too, and afterwards, judge whether you will be better off with her (your wife), or the new woman?*


Your wife says, “if you leave her, and she has already let the OM go, she will then have no one.” 

*Obviously, it doesn’t occur to her that if she leaves for OM at the end of MC, so will you – have no one.*

(of course, she might have been referring more to the financial dependency, than emotional dependency, there).



Please remember also that if you take the divorce-her-and-give-her-a-second-chance-at-reconnecting route, she would then too, most likely, want to date him and you together, and decide on one. *Which is a scenario similar to your current situation *-- only that you would then be free to date others too, being no more married.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

I also find it interesting that the thought hasn't occurred to her that if she loses you and it doesn't work out with the OM then she still has no one. Does she feel she is so desirable that she can keep both of you on the hook just waiting on her decision? Sounds like someone needs a harsh reality check. Maybe you shouldn't mention dating her after the divorce. Gives her a loophole to think she can still get you back.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

IF you prove yourself worthy, she will eventually dump the other man. NICE!!!!!!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Your wife is a nut.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Your wife isn't remorseful.

The OM isn't her plan B, you are. 

You've shown her that all she has to do is mention that she's having second thoughts, and you're ready to consider R.

You should accept nothing less from her than a genuine, unconditional desperation to save her marriage.

I'm not saying that finalizing a divorce is necessary. But I am saying that keeping the divorce process going unless or until you see her demonstrate true remorse, is well advised.


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## z_man (Nov 1, 2013)

"She said she would tell OM no contact while we were going to counseling. IF counseling was working then she would tell him NC forever. Completely unacceptable. Both feet in or both feet out. "

In reality it there is not much distinction as NC can easily turn back to contact.

However, you are right to get her mindset aligned with yours, there is no half-a$$ing this.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> "You just want me to burn that bridge and if it doesn't work out then I have no one."


I would have my wife served the as soon as possible after this comment. This means you and the kids are barely number 3. Her happiness and the OM are 1 and 2.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> *She told me regardless of what happens she is wants to tell OM to cancel plane tickets until at least December.*
> 
> Then she started crying a lot -again-. *She then started begging me to go to MC with her.* I told her no, I couldn't go to MC with her because she was still trying to eat her cake and have it. *She said she would tell OM no contact while we were going to counseling.* IF counseling was working then she would tell him NC forever.
> 
> ...


She thinks she would be doing you and the kids a favor if she decides to focus on the family. It's not a favor, it's her responsibility. Such disrespect shouldn't go unpunished.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

She's having second thoughts but with conditions attached. She'll tell OM to cancel until December..she'll go no contact until this date or that..she's still stringing the two of you along

but you're mistake is you're even negotiating this at all, D was on the table..to be blunt you put your b*lls on the table and showed her you meant business, but all these are just sh*t tests, R but not on your conditions but hers, according to her timetable. You play along I give up OM.

True remorse is realizing the damage you cause and doing anything to fix it..in short she should be willing to become a nun, no going out, all phones, laptops and whatever else in your hands.

Stop negotiating. This only ends in heartbreak down the line.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> She said something like "You just want me to burn that bridge and if it doesn't work out then I have no one."


What about you, you don't have anyone, why does she get a fallback guy and you don't?


Her motivation for R is wrong, she is still only thinking about herself. Its easier to use you than to make it on her own.

She needs to stew in her own juices for a while. Its got to be an unconditional surrender from her and right now she is still trying to control the situation.

She hasn't hit rock bottom yet, let her fall. Keep pushing for D and don't let up on her UNTIL she in not just begging and pleading but actually doing something like pro-actively ditching the OM.

She has to WANT to R so badly she is willing to give up everything even if there is only a 1% chance you'll take her back. Anything short of that is asking for failure.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Here let me give you an easy example.

We all know how badly crack and meth mess people up. You wouldn't let an addict keep a bag of crack available, if they are trying to get help and clean up.

Why would you contemplate IC and MC, if she still has the OM in her back pocket? Heck think about it CAREFULLY. The ONLY way a man is going to wait until December, which I doubt anyway, is through continued contact. So, she'll tell you no contact and take it underground. She gave you a major hint of her true self when she said "you want me to have no one." This is a cake eating comment If I ever heard one.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> So I spoke to her again today.. where to begin..
> She said she would tell OM no contact while we were going to counseling. IF counseling was working then she would tell him NC forever.
> 
> She wants guarantees
> ...


she is smart..... up to you to fall for it.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

OP your stbxw has shone you a complete and utter lack emotional and moral character the fact that she is dictating terms for R is further proof of what I posted earlier she wants your financial support and probably noting more she is trying to set you up for fails R to by time then most likely she will drop you and kids the minute she gets her diploma and leave you with the bill..


OP do your self a favor cut her* unremorseful A$$* lose let her be the OM problem and judging by her lack character I wouldn't be surprised if the OM finds him self in same boat your in now in the not too distant future. OP I look forward to hearing about next relationship hopefully with a yoga instructor:smthumbup:




PS:She wants guarantees lol yeah and you wanted a wife with a back bone and character some time we just don't get what we want in life.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

TheBetrayedOne said:


> She said something like "You just want me to burn that bridge and if it doesn't work out then I have no one." I didn't comment back on this, I think I just left because she was getting so heated.


 You need to comment back on this. Tell her that in marriage there can be no back up lover, and that if one person in the marriage has one while the faithful one does not, all the power of the relationship will be in the hands of the one that was cheating. Not only is this unfair, but the imbalance will dramatically lower if not doom the chances of reconciliation. Tell her that you want to be marriage to someone that is 100% committed to you and your marraige, and that if that person is not her, you need to know now so that you do not waste one more day of your life with such a person that is clearly not good marriage material, so that you can start ASAP looking to find a woman that would wake up everyday thanking God that she found you. Tell her that you know that such a person exists, and that you need to know now if she wants to be that person or not.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

TRy said:


> You need to comment back on this. Tell her that in marriage there can be no back up lover, and that if one person in the marriage has one while the faithful one does not, all the power of the relationship will be in the hands of the one that was cheating. Not only is this unfair, but the imbalance will dramatically lower if not doom the chances of reconciliation. Tell her that you want to be marriage to someone that is 100% committed to you and your marraige, and that if the person is not her, you need to not waste one more day not looking to find that person.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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