# bucked off



## stallion1

Hi please help
Here is the story:

Marriage started getting rocky a year or so ago. I own a horse farm with the wife. We have $1 million+ in debt to build new barn and get operation running. Tons of work, tons of stress. Constant battles and stress from running the business together. Wife has a 2nd job as well with salary/401k. 

I pretty much do all the work on the farm.

Fast forward to 6 months ago. Wife starts sleeping 2nd bedroom. She constantly looks to pick arguments. Not happy. In the last week she has escalated to becoming very cold and angry.

I have checked the phone and text logs and there is no sign of another man.

She came from a broken marriage as a child and has plenty of emotional connection and communication from her screwed up family as a child growing up.

This last week she now says she doesn't want to work on the marriage. Would only do marriage counseling like I asked but only to point out my faults. She claims there is nothing wrong with her. Her mother and sister both side with me that she is acting like a bytch.

She is going out of state for work in a week and says she is going to get an apartment when she returns. I talked to a friend who referred me to TAM tonight and in the brief conversation he told me to stop any begging and pleading or criticizing. She came in the house tonight and brought up the apartment so I just said okay and agreed with her decision. It immediately pissed her off and she tried lots of triggers to get me to engage her in a fight.

I don't know what I need to write on here for information but I need help and hope there are people here willing to give me any advice. I want the marriage to work out.

We are mid 30s, married 5 years, no kids. She doesn't want kids. My friend on TAM said I have classic "nice guy" syndrome in that I do everything for her, always have. We have not had sex in 6 months. 

thanks in advance.


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## RSFWID

stallion1 said:


> Hi please help
> Here is the story:
> 
> Marriage started getting rocky a year or so ago. I own a horse farm with the wife. We have $1 million+ in debt to build new barn and get operation running. Tons of work, tons of stress. Constant battles and stress from running the business together. Wife has a 2nd job as well with salary/401k.
> 
> I pretty much do all the work on the farm.
> 
> Fast forward to 6 months ago. Wife starts sleeping 2nd bedroom. She constantly looks to pick arguments. Not happy. In the last week she has escalated to becoming very cold and angry.
> 
> I have checked the phone and text logs and there is no sign of another man.
> 
> She came from a broken marriage as a child and has plenty of emotional connection and communication from her screwed up family as a child growing up.
> 
> This last week she now says she doesn't want to work on the marriage. Would only do marriage counseling like I asked but only to point out my faults. She claims there is nothing wrong with her. Her mother and sister both side with me that she is acting like a bytch.
> 
> She is going out of state for work in a week and says she is going to get an apartment when she returns. I talked to a friend who referred me to TAM tonight and in the brief conversation he told me to stop any begging and pleading or criticizing. She came in the house tonight and brought up the apartment so I just said okay and agreed with her decision. It immediately pissed her off and she tried lots of triggers to get me to engage her in a fight.
> 
> I don't know what I need to write on here for information but I need help and hope there are people here willing to give me any advice. I want the marriage to work out.
> 
> We are mid 30s, married 5 years, no kids. She doesn't want kids. My friend on TAM said I have classic "nice guy" syndrome in that I do everything for her, always have. We have not had sex in 6 months.
> 
> thanks in advance.


I'm sorry about your situation, I'm going through the same thing. I do know you're not suppose engage in conversation about the situation, it only pushes her away. Why is she so unhappy ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

RSFWID said:


> I'm sorry about your situation, I'm going through the same thing. I do know you're not suppose engage in conversation about the situation, it only pushes her away. Why is she so unhappy ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get some voice activated recorders put 1 in her car and 1 in the house to find out what you are up against.
That should give you some answers.


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## cbnero

This is my buddy. I sent him to TAM.

Last night we spoke by phone for 30 minutes. I advised him to immediately stop any pleading and fixing. To just agree with her if she says she is moving out and to act happy. Do not engage.

So she came in their house and he does that. She becomes enraged and tries to trigger an argument from him multiple times. He doesnt engage.

He calls me and asks to come to my place. On the way over she calls him. Where are you going? Are you staying overnight? I dont really want to move out, implying he should move out. Starts demanding they talk in person last night as she is busy the rest of this week before his trip. 

He took her call, told her he was staying at a buddys house. But didnt engage again. She is fuming.

Last night we vetted all the phone and text logs. No OM seems to be present. I feel comfortable with that assessment. Which is good.

I told him he needs to get the details out here on TAM and armed him with enough basic knowledge to get him started. But he will need more advice than I can supply alone.

He was amazed last night on how quickly she reacted to the few changes I suggested. Might be hope for this marriage yet if we can help bottom her out and she decides she wants to save the marriage too.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## bandit.45

My ass she's not cheating.....You better dig deeper pal. No woman let's go of the branch she's swinging from unless she has another branch to swing over to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero

bandit.45 said:


> My ass she's not cheating.....You better dig deeper pal. No woman let's go of the branch she's swinging from unless she has another branch to swing over to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I told him 99% chance she probably is. What is a good VAR for him to get? Anyone got a link handy? He will follow instructions.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## cbnero

We had quite a few beers last night. But I just remembered him telling me she changed her email password.

I agree, I am back on the OM suspicion.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Fenix

bandit.45 said:


> My ass she's not cheating.....You better dig deeper pal. No woman let's go of the branch she's swinging from unless she has another branch to swing over to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not true. I would say most but not no. Still, I agree with the trust by verify move going forward.

Stallion, what else is going on? Any promotions? New work scenarios? Could she be rethinking the no kids thing? Any other changes in habits?


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## bandit.45

Fenix said:


> Not true. I would say most but not no. Still, I agree with the trust by verify move going forward.
> 
> Stallion, what else is going on? Any promotions? New work scenarios? Could she be rethinking the no kids thing? Any other changes in habits?


The abruptness of her leaving is what is suspicious. No buildup. She just leaves. Unless Stallion is leaving out a big part of the story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malpheous

I'd be carrying a recorder with me anytime I was around her. You're staring down the barrel of a false DV charge brewing. She's started getting aggressive. 

"She constantly looks to pick arguments."

"It immediately pissed her off and she tried lots of triggers to get me to engage her in a fight."

"I dont really want to move out, implying he should move out."

" Starts demanding they talk in person last night as she is busy the rest of this week before his trip. "

If she thinks she has enough to call the Police out, she'll do it. She'll have you removed from the house for the night at the least. Then file a bull scat DV charge and request an Order of Protection along with motioning for exclusive use of the marital home. 6 months to get something worked around with that as status quo. Next thing you know, you have a crappy apartment and you're paying her mortgage until the divorce is done. Of course she'll drag feet to milk it as long as she can. 

Ask me if I've ever seen that attempted and/or done before... Luckily it happened to a friend first so I was prepared when it was tried on me. Backfired on my ex because I was able to prove it to the judge with a recording, etc. Pissed him off enough he gave her 24hrs to vacate and awarded me a temp order of protection from her for liable.


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## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> My ass she's not cheating.....You better dig deeper pal. No woman let's go of the branch she's swinging from unless she has another branch to swing over to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I'm sorry you feel that way. This one might be, but there are many of us that leave without someone waiting. Please refrain from sweeping generalizations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> The abruptness of her leaving is what is suspicious. No buildup. She just leaves. Unless Stallion is leaving out a big part of the story.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Possibly, but often what a man thinks is abrupt is not abrupt to a woman, who has been trying to tell him she's unhappy for a long time. Don't know for sure what's going on here, but he does say they haven't had sex in 6 months, there's a lot of stress, and she's got a second job which I'm sure is adding to said stress. That doesn't sound abrupt to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vandal_xx

Wow. I don't have as much to loose as stallion, but I said no to spying on my wife. You may need evidence for divorce stuff, but ask yourself if you really want to know. I thought about all the stuff I did for my wife and how little I got in return and figured I would let her go. 
I know you need to think about protecting yourself and your assets. Just keep in mind all the extra BS and stress she is putting you through. Make sure you weigh the pros and cons before putting yourself through more crap. IMHO
I wish you the best of luck! Keep your chin up!


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## stallion1

Thanks for all the thoughts so far. she told me there isn't anyone else! Signs point to maybe from what I see but nothing solid yet. She didn't leave just brought it up and said she was. Long story short I said ok do what is good for you. Changed her mind half an hour later about leaving. She keeps saying how inconvenient this is. She is super busy as am I but wow...inconvenient for her! She doesn't know if she want to make the effort or not. Keeps me hanging. Now im just going about my business and saying ok do what you need to do. At some point, and I don't know when that is, I feel I will need to do something about it. File for divorce? Say we need to get counseling or I give up? Not sure where to go from here. Is it worth trying to work it out with someone who doesn't think they need to change or work on their side of things? what a mess!


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## stallion1

so we had a work related issue with employees yesterday afternoon. I went out to dinner with my sister and got called back to deal with this issue. I dealt with it, had to stay home to figure some stuff out, missed out on my dinner while she left to go out with her friend!! She was leaving and I said I wish I could have continued on with my dinner but we needed to deal with things. She still leaves saying I had it covered so why should she cancel her plans!!! Is it me or does the word selfish cover it? Says she has plans every night this week. I said if you can make plans and take time to go out why is it so hard to find time to talk about our situation and try and deal with it. Same answer, "I don't know what I want" again keeps me hanging. Her mother said she's acting weird about the whole thing and sorry her daughter is acting like this. It was nice to hear from her mom. I've been pretty good about not arguing and going about my own business. Just saying ok do what you need. I guess maybe I should just stop saying anything??? Make my own plans to get out/away and leave it up to her? How long do I let it go? I feel like she would like me to keep hanging on for her convenience. I also feel like she wants to push me to file for divorce so she doesn't have to deal with it as well as have that decision on her. It would be easy for her to say he filed its not my fault. That makes me not want to do anything about it. Says things like you would be happier without me, like she is saving herself from guilt by putting it on me.. any thoughts?
CB.. glad your day in court is done with. Sorry you had to deal with an explosive x!! Must be relieved.


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## Fenix

OK, now that sounds like an affair.


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## cbnero

I would work on verifying all this so you know what you are dealing with. Without her knowing you even suspect it. All cheaters think they are the smartest people in the room.

VAR hidden under her seat the best bet? Keep an eye on the phone and text log too.

Google marriage 180 and start that maybe. See what others on here think.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## stallion1

I was thinking it but why cant she just tell me. I can keep checking phone records but haven't found anything yet. I guess I could do the voice recorder thing. anything else? Why not be honest. if she is seeing someone else and is happy with that then lets get this over with and we can both move on. Not that I don't want this marriage to work but I wouldn't even try to stay with someone who is cheating. When a person has an affair and keeps the other side hanging on is it because they want the best of both worlds? Do they not want to look bad and not care about the other person in their life? Messed up. I really want to defend her and say she wouldn't do that. But when you take a step back and look at the whole picture.....it doesn't look very promising!


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## Heartbroken84

Yes if she is having an affair she's more than likely keeping her options open by keeping you in the dark whilst she figures out her next move... It's a horrible thing to think about, I was the same when I came to TAM but soon discovered an EA that has since become physical. 

I do hope we are wrong, but I think it needs looking into so you know what your dealing with.


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## vandal_xx

Sorry to be blunt man, but sounds like whether or not there is someone else she is cheating you one way or another. Giving someone some time is cool, but totally crapping on you with no regards to your feelings sounds like she is cheating you out of the basic respect you give someone you love.
I thought the 180 people talked about on here was crap, but it works. Adjust it to work for you and your situation. Makes you take a step back and see the full situation.
Keep your chin up!


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## cbnero

This post helped me a lot, put things in perspective:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html


Here is the 180 and Plan A. Read both, I would maybe do 180. You cant change her but just because she thinks your worthless doesnt mean you are or should roll over. Dont engage her or argue. Lovingly detach. But maybe Plan A would be better for you. If Plan A doesnt work do the 180 immediately. Hardcore.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2332038

For what its worth, I did the 180 religiously the past 4 months. My marriage didnt work out but it saved me a ton of anguish and grief and made me a better person.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## bandit.45

Stallion there is a reason I got out of the horse business when I was in college: horse people. They can be some of the most selfish and adulterous people you could ever meet. Horse shows and rodeos are a breeding ground for cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> Stallion there is a reason I got out of the horse business when I was in college: horse people. They can be some of the most selfish and adulterous people you could ever meet. Horse shows and rodeos are a breeding ground for cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Everything outside of a convent is a breeding ground for people that want to cheat. They find a way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

The Catholic church and other churches have pedophiles and adulterers. Who would have guessed?

Horse dude,

Sounds like she is a cheater. VAR her car. Maybe GPS it. This often reveals what is going on within a week. Presumably she spends considerable time in the car since you live in the stix.

Do not file for D. Let her do it is she is trying to shift the blame on to you. Cheaters like to say, "my husband kicked me out, and when I was homeless I met my new boyfriend who pulled over when he saw me crying my heart out sitting on the curb."

re: horses
There was a man whose wife was spending all their money on their daughters jumping career. Wonder what happened?


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## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> Everything outside of a convent is a breeding ground for people that want to cheat. They find a way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh I agree. But I've seen sh!t go on at horse shows, ropings and rodeos that would make your hair curl.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> Stallion there is a reason I got out of the horse business when I was in college: horse people. They can be some of the most selfish and adulterous people you could ever meet. Horse shows and rodeos are a breeding ground for cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Stallion: With God as my witness, your story sounds all too familiar with mine, horses, wealth, me as a niceguy, and all! And for good measure throw Bandito into the mix as one of my hallowed mentors here at TAM.

Please read my rather lengthy story and just do the sheer comparison. After living through a 2+ year divorce after having had to sign a prenup with my skanky XW horsewoman, I now have virtually no money, with her still languishing around in her eight figure wealth.

The only apparent difference between our wives is mine was in her mid-50's at the time!

Heralded News Journalist Paul Harvey used to have a segment called "The Rest of the Story." Read mine and examine your future.

I can attest ~ my dear friend Bandito can attest! Read his responses to me! So glad that you're here at TAM; you've come to the right place!

Please ... Read my link below!*


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## ConanHub

bandit.45 said:


> Oh I agree. But I've seen sh!t go on at horse shows, ropings and rodeos that would make your hair curl.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Horse hormones?:scratchhead:


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## cbnero

The worst thing I did during the collapse of my marriage was letting her author how I viewed myself. She said I was a terrible person. She said I was emotionally abusive. She said she was never attracted to me. She said I was the most selfish person she ever knew. So I of course must be all these things. 

No. I took that book and burned it and took away her pen. No more. 

So you don't want to argue with her. You can't fix her nor is it your job to. Each of us are responsible for our own happiness. 

In the words of the great Conrad... If you elevated yourself to 50,000 feet and viewed yourself and this situation, what do you see? Remove emoting and apply logic. She is unable to do this and functioning only off emotions. 

Here are the main concerns I have:
- blame shifting
- no remorse
- she is telling her friends
- unknown possible posOM
- changing and blocking you from her email

This is common to those of us who have gone thru this. Most are divorced or soon to be.

My suggestions:
- 180 her azz hard
- Get an attorney
- inform your business partner asap
- take control and plan your exit strategy

Ignore 100% of what she says - watch her ACTIONS

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## 6301

stallion1;7608889 Says she has plans every night this week. I said if you can make plans and take time to go out why is it so hard to find time to talk about our situation and try and deal with it. Same answer said:


> When the time comes when she wants to sit down and talk to you, IMO, grab your keys and say "NO TIME FOR IDLE CHIT CHAT AND I'M BUSY FOR THE NEXT WEEK OR MONTH SO JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN YOUR MOVING OUT SO I CAN HELP YOU GET MOVING. Then leave, go get your sister and finish dinner.


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## cbnero

6301 said:


> stallion1;7608889 Says she has plans every night this week. I said if you can make plans and take time to go out why is it so hard to find time to talk about our situation and try and deal with it. Same answer said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the time comes when she wants to sit down and talk to you, IMO, grab your keys and say "NO TIME FOR IDLE CHIT CHAT AND I'M BUSY FOR THE NEXT WEEK OR MONTH SO JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN YOUR MOVING OUT SO I CAN HELP YOU GET MOVING. Then leave, go get your sister and finish dinner.
> 
> 
> 
> This.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_
Click to expand...


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## stallion1

again, thanks for the advice. I will read all that was recommended. I feel like I already know what to do I just don't want to do it. Familiar? However, I can usually process things fairly well and use gut feelings. Not to say I wont make an effort but I will research, use strategy, face reality and make a decision. 

Horse world....bandit I know what your talking about! and the people in this world are sooooo nuts! yes I will generalize on this one.

I was home at 3 for a few. The wife was gone. Her sister had a baby today. Thought she was there. I got a message from bro inlaw with pictures around eight. the wife calls shortly after that to tell me they had the baby. Where were you, you were supposed to be there right? No, my sister said I didn't need to be there, I was at this thing I told you about (she told me where she was going the other day) I asked who she was with......ummm myself. OK! Then gets defensive and says im so crabby! Trust me I was being very polite. Not crabby, not jumping for joy she called but polite. Trying not to assume but from 50k?????

so she is busy the rest of the evenings then out of town for four days for work. Question is, when she gets back and or if she decides to "talk" do I really say sorry im busy and take off or see what she has to say? I see that its based on her schedule and has put me in the dark the last two weeks but still. what are the consequences if she by some miracle isn't whoring around, and wanted to really fix something? do I still do the 180?

anyways... going to read the recommended material, thanks again and i'm sure ill be eating plenty of dinners at my sisters and her husband not to mention my awesome nephew whos two and calls me unky!


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## vandal_xx

Like I said, before you decide to dig deep make sure you want to know what she is up to. Do you even want to know if there is someone else? Or if there isn't will you continue to let her treat you like this?
I guess just make sure it is worth it to continue going through all of this. If it isn't go to your sisters and get a lawyer. The healing started when I stopped caring.


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## stallion1

yes I would want to know. I'm even ok at this point if there was. would it hurt...yes, would I get mad and tell her how horrible she is, yell and scream at her.... no. I would be happy to know that my decision to toss her out is 100% 

As for being treated the way I am, well, I read up on the 180. I like what it says. Ive acted on some of it that was brought up to me by my good friend CB. That little bit made a difference. And I like how I feel about it. I wont live like that anymore and changes are coming certainly for me, with or without her.


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## bandit.45

Her behavior is textbook, by-the-numbers, cheater bait-and-switch behavior.

I can almost guarantee you are not going to like what you find. But at least you will finally know the truth.


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## arbitrator

ConanHub said:


> Horse hormones?:scratchhead:


*Except in my case, it was "Skank Hormones!"*

*The only real things that I really learned from being married to her was to (1) distrust her implicitly as both a liar and a cheater, and (2) a very good knowledge of determining which of her show horses that I needed to feed Omolene 100, 200, or 300 to!*


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## Ceegee

If nothing found in phone records a VAR won't yield the results you are looking for (unless she has a burner phone). 

Key-logger for phone and PC may be a better tool to use. 

Knowing that there in fact is someone else involved helps to keep you from second guessing yourself as you go through the healing process.


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## bandit.45

arbitrator said:


> *Except in my case, it was "Skank Hormones!"*
> 
> *The only real things that I really learned from being married to her was to (1) distrust her implicitly as both a liar and a cheater, and (2) a very good knowledge of determining which of her show horses that I needed to feed Omolene 100, 200, or 300 to!*


I would have grabbed my .30-30 and shot them. 

Seriously.


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## 6301

stallion1 said:


> so she is busy the rest of the evenings then out of town for four days for work. Question is, when she gets back and or if she decides to "talk" do I really say sorry im busy and take off or see what she has to say? I see that its based on her schedule and has put me in the dark the last two weeks but still. what are the consequences if she by some miracle isn't whoring around, and wanted to really fix something? do I still do the 180?


 Look. If she feels that her marriage isn't worth an hour to sit and talk but would rather just up and leave for the evening then yeah I would give her a taste of her own medicine.

If she can't take the time out and explain what crawled up her ass to you knowing full well that it's leaving you hanging out to dry, then IMO she can wait. Two can play that game and if I were you, I wouldn't give her any more consideration then she's giving you. If you do, she's going to run you into the ground and so far she's doing a good job of it.

She's playing hardball with you so you better start doing the same.


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## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> I would have grabbed my .30-30 and shot them.
> 
> Seriously.


*Bandito: I couldn't have done it! Although I didn't ride them, I came to love those "bags of bones!" And I still miss them, even today!*


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## LongWalk

Do you want to get out if the business?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stallion1

lets talk "text book" today again came the moving out when she gets back talk. She wants to move out says her friends all say she should move out because its best if we both have time to think about what we really want. I say, ok what about the dogs. She says you need to take care of the dogs and be down at the barn more while im gone. Me, you need to take some responsibility for your animals as well. her, you are the one making me move out its not my fault! how about you move out and ill deal with the dogs. me, I do feel either of us should move if we want to figure this out so no but if you feel you need to, go ahead. It wasn't my idea for you to move out!!..................more in a bit


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## C3156

stallion1 said:


> so she is busy the rest of the evenings then out of town for four days for work. Question is, when she gets back and or if she decides to "talk" do I really say sorry im busy and take off or see what she has to say? I see that its based on her schedule and has put me in the dark the last two weeks but still. what are the consequences if she by some miracle isn't whoring around, and wanted to really fix something? do I still do the 180?


People make time for what they believe is important. 

Go ahead with the 180, it will be good for you. 



stallion1 said:


> She wants to move out says her friends all say she should move out because its best if we both have time to think about what we really want. I say, ok what about the dogs. She says you need to take care of the dogs and be down at the barn more while im gone. Me, you need to take some responsibility for your animals as well. her, you are the one making me move out its not my fault! how about you move out and ill deal with the dogs. me, I do feel either of us should move if we want to figure this out so no but if you feel you need to, go ahead. It wasn't my idea for you to move out!


Classic textbook response to someone cheating and not being willing to own up to her actions.

Tell her since she is not willing to accept responsiblity for her animals that you will have to start selling them to pay on your joint debt. See what kind of response you get then.


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## stallion1

c3 good idea on the animals! she will flip and turn blame on me! cant wait.

Arb, yes their horses are so incredibly important... however it seems they love to pass the responsibility when its not convenient for them. btw read some of your story, will read more later......wow.

bandit, ive got guns,,she hates when I go hunting, its so inconvenient. imagine that. Ive had to put down and bury a few because they were old and sick. Not easy to do and couldn't if it was a good horse. Now making her sell them or buy me out of them sounds pretty good to me right now.

Longwalk,,,I don't care if I have to get out of the bus. however I brought in a private investor whom I know well, to make our new facility happen. There are a lot of details involved but I will be letting him know whats going on and decisions will be made from there. He is a business mentor, friend, second dad, who saw my potential and has helped me learn, grow, succeed etc when others doubted so for that I will confide in him and take advice on most anything. Plus he owns everything... I pay him not a bank! When it gets down to it, he will have the final say on the business side. Trust me there is a lot to it.

back to the story.. saw her a few minutes ago, asked her when she was moving and if she needed help packing. Her response was... why, do you want me to move, and, who's going to pay for it, and when I said its your decision and youre going to have to figure that out without me. Then she said that I didn't care about anything, im pushing her out, I never care what she does, and that Im not doing anything to make it work. 

so I say I care but I cant stop you from doing what you need to do. Left it at that. She was very unhappy. does she see this 180 stuff (that I have in no way mastered yet, but giving it my best) as me not caring? guaranteed she will want to move out again, then not, then try and ask me to move, then she will move, then not, etc. ok ok ok ok ok.


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## bandit.45

Trick to the 180?

Think Spock.


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## arbitrator

stallion1 said:


> *Let's talk "text book" today again came the moving out when she gets back talk. She wants to move out says her friends all say she should move out because its best if we both have time to think about what we really want.* I say, ok what about the dogs. She says you need to take care of the dogs and be down at the barn more while I'm gone. Me, you need to take some responsibility for your animals as well. her, you are the one making me move out its not my fault! how about you move out and ill deal with the dogs. me, I do feel either of us should move if we want to figure this out so no but if you feel you need to, go ahead. It wasn't my idea for you to move out!!..................more in a bit


*Stallion: Your STBXW is apparently moving out for the very same reason that my wealthy skanky XW had me summarily moved out of "her mansion:" ~ so that she can go and spread her legs wide open in uninterrupted form, off in other environs without your knowing the first damn thing about it! Fact of the matter is that I'd bet the ranch that she's probably already performed in that particular rodeo arena while you were innocently bunking in with her as her H there at home! You need to get your a$$ checked out immediately for the presence of STD's as well!

I can only pray to God that you don't have a prenup in place protecting only her assets and that you aren't residing within the State of Texas!

Doing "the 180" is beyond imperative! Please get your a$$ off to a good "piranha" lawyers office, and I do mean yesterday! I do feel compassion for you, Sir!*


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## stallion1

Arb. 180 is into action. Just this morning first thing she says is go let the dogs out. I just looked at her like, really. She says you are such an ahole. I say, good morning! She let the dogs out. Then leaves. I called because a dog was missing. She said she was selling her to a friend! OK sounds good. She then asks why im so crabby oh wait your always crabby! I pleasantly said im not crabby at all. She asked if my friend who is in real estate deals with rentals. I said, nope I don't think so but feel free to look him up and call him. She is so mad that im being nice, she's pushing buttons and not getting the reaction she wants. She's looking up places to rent on her computer. Thinking about packing up her crap that's in my room and putting it in the room she is staying in so its ready when she gets back from her work trip. 
No prenup.
lawer, I know lawyers. They are going to recommend who to see. I will start digging into it Monday as soon as she takes off for a few days. 

I know there may be a tough road ahead but cant thank you guys enough for all of the insight into handling this. I will have a lot more to discuss and be in need of more support. This isn't how I would have handled it two weeks ago. I would have begged and pleaded. I would have let her push me out of the house and more or less dictate my existence. Not now. I like where I am going personally, mentally, emotionally. Still have that little voice that says it will all work out but looking at things from 50k I know its a different outcome.

I've never had anyone call me and ahole and crabby when I've been super nice to them! kind of funny, interesting, validating (180)

Keep you posted! Thanks for being so nice to me....aholes!


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## stallion1

can you install a keylogger without access to the computer or phone and not knowing passwords?


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## stallion1

so I talked to her for a couple minutes this afternoon. asked what I was doing, said I was going out with a buddy.... you mean your girlfriend! she says. No, I wouldn't do that to you. Replies oh I don't know about that........wow...

She asked if I had lined up a counselor to see when she gets back in town. WTF. she has told me for the last two weeks she doesn't know what she wants, she doesn't need to change anything, she is moving out, she doesn't need to go to counseling. At one point when she told me I didn't know what I wanted either (I have told her 20 times if this will work we both need counseling and both have to want the marriage to work).. that's what I wanted. so in the mix she did say something like fine ill go and sit through this bs if you really want! I told her I had not set anything up because she didn't feel she needed to go. Her.. I told you I would when I get back...me..ok... her...why are you being so difficult....me...how have I been so difficult.....silence. 

do I even attempt setting up counseling? Is this her reacting to the 180? Do I see the counselor when she is gone by myself and then give her the number to set something up to see if she really wants to go. Do I not do anything?


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## The Cro-Magnon

This is awful to read, I feel terrible for OP.

Marriage counselling is pointless if there is another person in the picture, and an affair is ongoing, and she _blatantly_ has another man IMO, it is just a matter of finding out who/when/where/how and brutally exposing it, shock & awe, kill it with sunlight.

It's the only chance his marriage has, if he would even want her back after letting another man inside her mind, heart, and body.

OP should hire a Private Investigator to follow her for a day or so, and put VAR's in her car, room, etc, get some 100% certainty on what is happening behind his back, to bring this to an end.

edit: And I bet he will be shocked to find out who knows about her new man, friends, family who are saying nothing, "minding their own business"


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## cbnero

Here is my 2 cents, but others can advise better:

1. MC will do nothing except make things worse if there is a posOM involved. This I say from personal experience.

2. Nothing has happened that would cause her to have a change of heart, correct? So why would she suddenly want to work things out? Trust your gut but mine says that when they get emotional and yell they reveal their true thoughts. Her backpedaling now is just lip service to keep you on the hook. Until she has her new life lined up you are still useful.

I still think you need to know what you are dealing with here. She may be just MLC ok fine. Might still be worth saving. But if there is OM then are you out? I think a VAR in her car is easiest.

Her accusing you of a girlfriend is just to move the focus off her. Keep you on the defensive, keep you explaining and apologizing.

If you go to MC you need a good one. I cannot recommend mine for anything but IC. A good one will see thru her bs and call her out on it. A bad one will turn you into a dog and destroy you.

keep calm, dont engage, 180 until we have more info

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## bandit.45

Cheaters think that other people are just like them, so it is no surprise she has accused you of cheating. It's called transference. 

Her volatile attitude, scattershot reasoning and attempts to goad you into a fight SCREAM of infidelity. Right now there is a war going on inside of her between her conscience and her selfishness. Expect her to get even more nasty. 

Start gathering intel. Bet you she's seeing someone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stallion1

wow, is this a game? I have to spy on my wife to figure it out. why does it seem every divorce on here seems like there is a cheater? Yes I want to know. Yes what you guys are saying makes sense. Yes I will continue to try and figure it out at all cost. Its so sad. CB what is the site you were looking up numbers for me. Ive checked the phone records again and I want to figure out a few more numbers. VAC.... will this help if phone records have nothing on them. any idea on the best key logger situation? I am definitely interested in pursuing this magnum PI stuff but its sad it comes to that. im in deep thought about even if she wasn't cheating, would I want to be with someone who treats me like this? 

Lets say she works at the barn, which we live at, all day long. Her other job is well known to me and ive checked her schedules to see if she is working when she is supposed to be, lets say I know the people she is going out with, two female friends have picked her up and dropped her off, three times she has gone out with the same girl (who is about as bright as a burnt out light bulb) the last one, tonight, with another friend whom I know well and has planned to meet her for two weeks to talk about a death in the family... she has no phone records as of yet from people I don't know...she has only stayed at someone elses house twice which I cant verify if she really stayed there or not....is it possible she is not cheating? I probably sound stupid right now for this but its thoughts I have and would like opinions. 

yes if there is om I am done. If I knew this second I would have a D lined up and moving as fast as possible. I will try and verify. yes I will continue the 180. What you tell me on here makes perfect sense. It actually calms me to hear what you say because it make so much sense. Until I can confirm something, it will be hard to be 100% If I knew, it would be easy for me,,,,, still hurt a lot,,,,, but im good at moving on things when I know the details for sure. I'll still move on trying to verify. What if it was a one night stand a month ago. How will I ever figure it out? I'm not going to stray from the 180. I almost feel my dilemma is knowing that she doesn't treat me the way I should be, no matter if she was cheating or not, and can that be fixed with effort or not. I also feel I know the answer to that but it would be easier for me to say she cheated and move on, then to say I don't think she was good enough for me so I divorced her.

does anyone else feel this way? am I being blind? its very hard to take emotion out and replace it with common sense.

sorry for the long message but if I can get some detail in here that will help someone else out in the future that is what im going to do...........so.... she just go back 20 min ago!!! what do we have in store?

She comes into the room and im all about the 180. She stands at the door waiting for something..... I say good night, her.... goodnight... she leaves.... comes back two minutes later... her... well I thought you might want to talk a bit.... me ... about what? her.... well what do you want to do.... me ... about what?.... her... about us, did you want to go to counseling?... me.... you've told me with no uncertainty these last two weeks you wanted a divorce, wanted to move out, didn't want to go to counseling cause you needed to figure out what you really wanted..... her... I will go to counseling because I think we should try to figure this out... me... ok, I think ill give you the number of the counselor ive talked to and you can set up a time for us to meet. I will leave it up to you since you've seemed so against figuring this out since it came up.... im not sure you really want to make the effort so if you do, sign up with the MC and we can go.... her .... ok that sounds fair.....me.... ok have a good night..... her....pause.... ok good night.

again, affair (havnt verified), one night stand (how will I ever know), would I love for this to work? (yes), will I keep trying to verify?(yes), if I ever find out about OM or one nighter will I try and make it work? (absolutely not) will I keep doing the 180?(yes), will I go to MC if she sets up the meeting? (yes) do I think she can change (I have my doubts) can I change if it betters our marriage (yes) is this just her getting advice tonight from a friend she was with whom I know would encourage her to work things out and her feeling guilty?(probably) Like I said before, I see what you guys are telling me, I believe what you say, ive gone full heartedly with the 180, its made a significant difference in a short period of time, but after all ive been married for 5, involved for 8, and its hard!!! 

keep you posted, thanks to all of you and CB you have a special place in my heart. Please keep your thoughts and insights coming. I cant tell you how much this site and the stories involved have brought me to a new level of understanding, empathy, satisfaction, and personal gain.


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## bandit.45

You are doing great muchacho. Keep that 180 up. Fake it till you make it. Think Spock. Think ME. 

But here is another curve ball to throw at you... Just food for thought:

It may not be a guy. 

I don't know what branch of the horse world you and your wife are in, but I have friends in the show jumping world and they tell me it is rife with lesbians. Seriously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero

Best site for cell phone lookup I have found, and it is free:
www.spydialer.com

You can grab the VM greeting from the cell without actually calling it. Or you can lookup the name. Sometimes it will only give the first or last name or no hit. But thats how I found OM identity in my case.

Sounds like she is responding to the 180. 
My advice is trust, but verify. Always stay calm and confident. Never get angry with her.

You are doing good.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LanieB

Stallion - I agree with the others. There is a good chance there is another man in the picture. 

You've been given plenty of good advice, so I'll just add a few tidbits from my own situation. My STBXH has a call/text app on his phone that he uses to call/text OW. These apps let you make calls through the internet, bypassing your calling plan - AT&T in our case. None of these calls show up on the AT&T call log. It's *possible* your wife has this on her phone. 

I had used VAR's before, and didn't have good luck because there would be about a 2-second delay before it would start recording. I eventually found this:

Amazon.com : Etekcity® 8GB USB Hidden Spy Pen Drive Disk Digital Audio Voice Recorder 150 Hours : Digital Video Recorders : Electronics

It's a flash drive, so if someone were to see it, they wouldn't automatically think it's a recorder. It was very easy to use and easy to hide. I stuck it down in the big pocket attached to the back of the driver's seat in my husband's truck. It records for about 15 hours before it runs out of charge. Then all you have to do is plug it into your computer and it uploads all the recordings (broken into 4-hour chunks). I saved them to my computer and then onto another flash drive, which I now have in a safe deposit box. It recorded very well. I quickly learned how to scroll through each 4-hour recording without having to listen to a lot of dead air.

STBXH would meet OW at least twice a day for about an hour each time, and they would get in his truck. Holy sh!t did I ever get an earful. It's awful to do this (the first time). If you're like me, I felt like a total creep for invading his privacy like that - - until I heard them together. You don't know my story, but I'd caught him twice before (nearly divorced him last time, but he talked me out of it). But this time, even though I thought I was going to have a heart attack listening to it, and realizing he was still having an affair with this same woman, - - this time, once my nerves settled, I felt like a weight was lifted off me. Just KNOWING for sure what he was doing made it so much easier to do what I had to do - file for divorce again. No turning back this time. 

I hope things work out for you, one way or another. But don't let her screw you around like this. Do whatever it takes to find out what she's doing. If she is doing something, it sounds like it will make your decision crystal clear.


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## LongWalk

Horse,

You are doing a good job. The last conversation you had shows that you are making an impression on her. But you are not out of the woods. Remain cool and poised but not hostile or angry.

No matter what is going on in her head, you need honesty out of her.


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## LanieB

LongWalk said:


> Horse,
> 
> You are doing a good job. The last conversation you had shows that you are making an impression on her. But you are not out of the woods. Remain cool and poised but not hostile or angry.
> 
> No matter what is going on in her head, you need honesty out of her.


Honesty would be great, but if she's anything like my STBXH, you won't get anything anywhere near honesty out of her. Many cheaters are still trying to cover their asses to the bitter end, even when you throw 100% hard evidence in their faces. That was my H - - still denying EVERYTHING, even when he knew I had proof.

I agree though, Stallion sounds like he's doing a great job dealing with her so far.


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## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> You are doing great muchacho. Keep that 180 up. Fake it till you make it. Think Spock. Think ME.
> 
> But here is another curve ball to throw at you... Just food for thought:
> 
> It may not be a guy.
> 
> I don't know what branch of the horse world you and your wife are in, but I have friends in the show jumping world and they tell me it is rife with lesbians. Seriously.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know what your saying! there are a few at our barn although getting into their 60's. shes 32. Not that it couldn't happen but I don't think so. but yes possible. That would be easy to figure out. You know who the horse people looooove to gossip

I left to go to my dads birthday this morning and she was wondering why I didn't invite her. My parents sent her an invite over a week ago by text. She knew about it but was pushing buttons.

I got home and she told me she was going to see her sister and her new baby tonight. I said ok. She asked if I wanted to see the baby. I told her I saw the baby on Friday and maybe I would go tonight (not sure if I should go with her or not, I want to see the kid but I don't know if I want to go with the wife). She flipped that I went to see them on Friday without her knowledge and it was her sister not mine blah blah blah. I said they invited me (btw im really close to them, I hang out and go on multiple trips a year with her sisters husband..my friend) im not sure what your upset about but its not a big deal. She went into another room,, came back and was totally fine with it. Then small talk and im being pleasant, happy and she says how crabby I am again!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl: I couldn't help but burst out laughing.......(made her mad!) Im not sure what you think ive done to act crabby today but I sure don't feel crabby. Didn't have much to say and went to the barn!!!!!!

she is so mad im not engaging, the more buttons she tries to push (usually, in the past, I would react) and I don't react, the more confused (I can see it on her facial expressions) and upset she is getting! I feel bad for a second but then I look at her trying to push and how shes been treating me and the guilt slips away in seconds.

should I go to MC when she gets back and if she sets up the meeting with the mc I recommend? Keep in mind I will continue to verify OM


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## arbitrator

*I would have bet you the farm that there was someone else! If I would have only had an ounce of intelligence back when my skanky XW did this to me, if I had only been smarter enough to figure it all out, instead of living in denial; if I had only found TAM right after separation, I could have been playing with a great hand of cards!

I'm so damn happy that you took the initiative, Stallion! Bravo for you! Like mine, your STBXW had richly been planning you out to be her "Plan B."

Let's make her your "Plan A." In a court of law, that is!*


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## bandit.45

Call over to the sisters house tonight and talk to your BIL. Confirm she's there. If she goes and just stays for a few minutes and then leaves but then doesn't get home for several hours after, then you know her visit there is just a smokescreen. 

Can you buy a GPS tracker and hide in her vehicle. How about ha VAR? It would be great if you could get something in that vehicle tonight before she leaves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

By the way Stallion, if you and BIL are good friends, is he the kind of guy you could confide in? If you told him you suspect your wife of cheating, would he be another set of eyes and ears for you? He could be a great asset since he could be privy to the conversations between his wife and yours. If his wife knows her sister is cheating, it's going to show in her behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero

This. I had no help on mine. If you have it take advantage.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk

If you leak a suspicion like this out and it is revealed, the affair will go deep underground.

Get two VAR. One for her car and one for the room she likely to call from.

You could also get a GPS tracker for her car.


If she is having an affair, probaby a week will reveal what is going on.


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## stallion1

Thanks all,

Bandit,,,,She left a bit ago and I don't have var or gps yet. I can talk to BIL or text him later. He will keep it secret. He will tell me if he sees anything or hears anything. I don't have to worry about him saying anything. She is leaving tomorrow morning for 4 days so I'll get set up with technology. thanks for the info. I'll know when she gets back. I know she should be there in a few minutes. See what the BIL says later.........go from there.

Longwalk, I see what your saying about it getting out that im asking. BIL is probably the only one who could keep it secret... maybe even her sister who is not happy with the wife. Ill only deal with BIL though. No one else. If its leaked ill know where it came from (she would confront me if she found out I asked someone she knows). And hopefully by next week ill be set with eyes and ears wide open.

Does GPS in a car track online, does it track and I can look at it later or do I have to watch while its driving?

can the phone company send me a fax or anything with all text messages sent and received (with content) on her phone.....I pay the bill, phone contract is in my name. ??????? 

Arb. thanks for the thumbs up... plan B is no way to live. Glad CB got me here asap. 

LanieB, thanks for the link... yes she is the type who would never admit it. or maybe blame me.


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## arbitrator

*Stallion: I'm a real, live, eating, breathing, living testament to being some rich, uncaring skank's "Plan B!" Never again!

And I sure as hell don't want to see you embracing that same nomenclature either!*


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## bandit.45

Stallion, one of the reasons you should ask the mods to move this thread is that over in CWI there are a bunch of eggheads who can tell you everything you want to know about VARs, GPS, text recovery, cell tracking and the like. 

The mods have been AWOL this weekend. SteveK has been wanting to get his thread moved too and he has gotten nowhere.


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## stallion1

she was at sister in laws last night. BIL verified. Her mom was there and made her bring home dinner for me! She is gone for her work trip, I know where she is going, and staying. great opportunity to get VAR in her car. Might have phone co send me list of texts with contents. See what happens.

She had her friend bring her to the airport. Last night just said xxx will drive me so you don't have to. she never asked me. Kind of think she was waiting for me to say no that's ok I can bring you... but just said ok sounds good.

keep you posted


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## bandit.45

You handled that well Mr Spock.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator

*Stallion: Provided that the phone bill is in your name alone, then you are deemed to be the account owner. If it happens to be in both of your names, then you are deemed to be the co-owner. In either event, if something goes haywire inasfar as the payment of that account goes, the company has the right to come looking for you as one of the principals.

To wit, in either case, you are indeed priviliged to be able to procure any and all records related to that cell phone account.

Game, set, and match!*


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## bandit.45

I'm glad your BIL agreed to be your third eye.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LanieB

Stallion, you should be able to sign up online with your cell phone provider and view your account. You will be able to see a call & text log of the phone numbers called and texted from her phone, but you will not be able to see any text content. There are ways (sometimes - depending on type of phone she has) to retrieve deleted texts - especially if she has an iPhone that she syncs with a computer.

If I remember correctly, I think DevastatedDad had a good thread about spyware and the tech stuff he used to catch his wife. You might search his posted threads and see if it's still around. 

As for me, I could never get to my husband's phone long enough - and didn't trust myself - to be able to successfully install spyware on his Blackberry. And he doesn't use a computer much so a keylogger would have been useless to me. That's why the recorder worked very well for me.


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## Chuck71

you have received very superb help on here. there are pros and cons to having your

BiL look out for you. IF your W is cheating, bet the farm her sister knows. Does your

W have a FB account? Adults who are having spats, usually stay at one corner of 

the house until cooler heads prevail. Going out every night.....that raises a flag. Continue

digging, they will eventually make a mistake. A hidden point to the 180 is taking back your

life. 1-MC...you go for you...if you (W) want to attend, it is your choice. 2-"I will not engage in

your anger dump". 3-when she berates you with anger, "I'm sorry you feel that way".

As soon as she realizes you are in control of your own actions, you will see a change in her

Getting into urinating contests are pointless. In my case, I clearly stated three times I wanted

to work things out. After those three, it was NC. When my X tried to throw a fishing line

out, I gave a non-negotiable....MC before the D is final. You must be firm and absolute in you

actions. Think Stormin' Norman in Gulf War, McArthur WW2. Final thought....if you know where

she is staying, send her a cheap thing of roses. And tell me what her reaction was when she

asked if it was you..... 

ps-some large hotels have.......web cams of the surrounding area


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## vandal_xx

Above all the craziness, keep your head cool. Sounds like you are, but sometimes easier said then done. 
You will pull out of this on top.
You will be better once the smoke clears.
Keep your chin up.


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## stallion1

chuck, thanks for the flowers idea, I will use that, but she is not at a hotel. Staying with another business partner of ours. I don't have exact address. Maybe I send something to her work when she gets back to see what happens. I love this idea. She does have a FB and I cant figure out password. She changed her email password. I will keep digging!

Vandal, "easier said than done" no shzt. Im good on this site. when I focus by reading replies and advice and other stories it all makes sense, then I can focus when I have contact with her because of what I have seen and learned from all of the supportive people I have in my life and especially on this site. It seems when I have time alone,,,, to think,,,,, feel emotionally about the situation,,, Is when I have a really tough time. My mind wanders.......what ifs.......maybes.......etc. Anyways, im working on it. Trying to put ME first this time.

Thanks again to all for your continued support, I know ill need more and there will be more story to follow:smthumbup:

ps. has anyone on here not been cheated on and/or worked it out with significant other?

also, When I read some other threads, I can say for certain I would never put up with that and why is it so hard for that person to figure it out. Its so obvious, grow some balls...............then I think...........is everyone reading my story and saying the same thing? Little bit harder when your the one wearing the shoes!!!!! Right?


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## bandit.45

It's normal to have a mind that wanders into the blackest shadows. You are on the roller coaster for sure. But you are doing fine Stallion. Keep that 180 printed out and folded up in your pocket. 

By the way, maybe you mentioned it earlier and I missed it. How old are you and your wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stallion1

im 35, shes 33.


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## bandit.45

Well for some women who come from broken homes and troubled childhoods, that 30 to 35 y.o. range can be a dangerous time. She's at the crux of saying goodbye to the desirable young twenty-something and staring down the barrel of reaching 40. I saw an article a while back that said women go through five to seven year cycles of stability interspersed with short periods of restless wandering. This may be what is happening. 

You don't have children, so she is freed up to spend her spare time with other women who don't have children, or who's children are grown. What do you think that leads to? Very little good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stallion1

troubled childhood and broken home doesn't begin to describe it.... well I guess it does begin to describe it but there is a lot more. Not sure if I need to air all of her dirty laundry but at one point I brought up some guaranteed deep issues that she blew off completely. "I don't have a problem" OK.

convincing theory bandit.


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## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> troubled childhood and broken home doesn't begin to describe it.... well I guess it does begin to describe it but there is a lot more. Not sure if I need to air all of her dirty laundry but at one point I brought up some guaranteed deep issues that she blew off completely. "I don't have a problem" OK.
> 
> convincing theory bandit.


But here's the bitter pill: You knew she had baggage and married her anyway. I sense you have a bit if the White Knight in you. Well, you cannot save another person from themselves, all you can do is expose the truth of what they are doing, hold it up to them, and hope it makes a dent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Whether this is a mini midlife crisis or an affair, you have to treat either the same way. Do the 180 and refuse to chase her or be sucked into her drama.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stallion1

Yes, I as well as my sister have always had a big,,, help others thing going on in not only normal life but relationships. She is in a good one now after a few (im realizing) bad ones like I may be in. She is happy. those two and my nephew are my rock. She told me what you just said, bandit, the other day. Honestly, I know, but its hard to tell the white night to save himself instead of the girl. Im trying. Very good point of view bandit!


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## bandit.45

I had a two year old filly once when I was a teenager. She was not broke and was range bred. I worked with that crazy b!tch for three years but could never get her to settle down. She wasn't just skittish and high strung, I'm now convinced that she was just plain nuts. I had an old vaquero work with her and even he, best horseman I've eve known, couldn't get her to settle down. 

When I graduated high school I sold her to a team roper and he tried to make her into a decent rope horse. Nope. Didn't take. Eventually he just stopped riding her and now she's a mean old broodmare who puts out good babies but who no one gets near. 

If you do end up divorcing your wife, I recommend you replace her with a gelding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stallion1

:rofl::rofl:

Way to familiar. You just made me crack up. Gelding it is. 

Some mares are good for breeding some are good for show, some will kick you in the teeth when least expect it!


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## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> :rofl::rofl:
> 
> Way to familiar. You just made me crack up. Gelding it is.
> 
> Some mares are good for breeding some are good for show, some will kick you in the teeth when least expect it!


Very little difference between mares and human females: unpredictable, moody, stubborn, defensive, hormonal and ever changeable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> I had a two year old filly once when I was a teenager. She was not broke and was range bred. I worked with that crazy b!tch for three years but could never get her to settle down. She wasn't just skittish and high strung, I'm now convinced that she was just plain nuts. I had an old vaquero work with her and even he, best horseman I've eve known, couldn't get her to settle down.
> 
> When I graduated high school I sold her to a team roper and he tried to make her into a decent rope horse. Nope. Didn't take. Eventually he just stopped riding her and now she's a mean old broodmare who puts out good babies but who no one gets near.
> 
> If you do end up divorcing your wife, I recommend you replace her with a gelding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay stop horsing around
If she was a csa survivor you are pretty screwed as you will read in other threads.
Sorry I really am.


----------



## stallion1

whats CSA


----------



## tom67

stallion1 said:


> whats CSA


childhood sexual abuse, sorry.


----------



## tom67

There are csa cases where they screw everything walking or they don't want sex at all, really sad.


----------



## bandit.45

I hope that's not the case with Stallion's filly, but I'm getting that itch....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> I hope that's not the case with Stallion's filly, but I'm getting that itch....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


SIGH
:iagree:


----------



## stallion1

No,, not a CSA. I know she saw her dad in the act a couple....few... times (after the divorce (which was based on cheating)) but not sure if that registers as CSA.... maybe?


----------



## bandit.45

If she knew her dad was a philanderer that could have had a devastating impact on her. Did her mom cheat on her dad?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

stallion1 said:


> No,, not a CSA. I know she saw her dad in the act a couple....few... times (after the divorce (which was based on cheating)) but not sure if that registers as CSA.... maybe?


She saw at a young age that cheating was okay... ugh.
If you want to r she HAS to go to ic and tell her story and figure out why what she is doing is not right jmo. Again IF.


----------



## stallion1

she's never cheated before (shes told me way back,, it came up in a conversation before we got married.....truthful or not its what was said). Shes been cheated on from a guy who she thought she might marry in the past. Shes seen cheating and what it does to a family. Don't worry ill try my best to verify! Just giving info to see what the consensus is.


----------



## bandit.45

If her FOO (family of origin) had cheating going on by either or both parents, her chances of growing up to cheat goes up a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

at a young age yes but didn't see it as ok from what shes told me..............?


----------



## stallion1

I can understand that


----------



## bandit.45

These FOO issues are like having a cold brand. It's there, hidden under the skin. Sometimes you have to get up close to see it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> If her FOO (family of origin) had cheating going on by either or both parents, her chances of growing up to cheat goes up a lot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sadly it's learned behavior.
Like when dad beats up mom crap like that.

If she is willing to go to ic, and be honest, you have a chance.
If she isn't willing, MOVE ON!!


----------



## JustRon

Stallion,

The VAR recommendation has tremendous value whether you find evidence of cheating or not. For me the VAR has revealed how W's portraying our marriage and private conversations to multiple other friends / family members. It has proved a window into her distorted perspective on events.

If mrs. stallion is not talking about this with you, she's discussing it with someone else... finding out what she's saying and how she feels is your ticket to a course of action.

my .02

JR


----------



## tom67

JustRon said:


> Stallion,
> 
> The VAR recommendation has tremendous value whether you find evidence of cheating or not. For me the VAR has revealed how W's portraying our marriage and private conversations to multiple other friends / family members. It has proved a window into her distorted perspective on events.
> 
> If mrs. stallion is not talking about this with you, she's discussing it with someone else... finding out what she's saying and how she feels is your ticket to a course of action.
> 
> my .02
> 
> JR


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## bandit.45

I'm droopy boys. Talk to you tomorrow Stallion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

Her mom never cheated. as soon as she found out she was gone with the kids. Meet another. been married ever since. he is on wife 4.

She moved back in with her dad at age 12 cause of horses. She loves the animals and im sure she used and uses that to calm herself. I think shes buried a lot of issues then and now by working with horses non-stop.

Pretty sure she wouldn't go to IC right now. Wondering if she makes the effort to go to a good MC she might get some insight and go from there but it is probably a long shot.

I'll have the VAR set up before she gets back and see what it says.


----------



## arbitrator

*Regardless of these revelations, she still needs to be tested as her actions alone more than justify the "probable cause" present!

Break out those GPS's & VAR's, Boys!*


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion this GPS tracker looks like a good one. Its 9v battery powered so you don't have to hook it up to the car's battery. 

Amazon.com: Spy Spot Real Time Mini Portable Magnetic GPS Tracker GPS Tracking Device Gl 200 Micro Tracker: GPS & Navigation

Reviews seem pretty positive.


----------



## stallion1

I read a post yesterday on another thread from Weightlifter, I think, he had a lot to say about 007 stuff. Looked at a var today but it wasn't one he recommended. Thought it would be easier to just go get one instead of ordering it on amazon. If BBuy doesn't have it ill order it. No big deal. Just want it ready before Thursday late afternoon. However, I did get the Velcro and stuff to attach it so im making progress!

thanks bandit that tracker looks good. I'm ready to find out that my wife isn't cheating, she cant handle life without me, she wants to go to IC and MC so we can mend the broken pieces!!!!!!..................Right!


----------



## sandc

Sorry if this was already asked but does your wife have a smart phone? iphone or droid? If so you can install GPS apps on the phone. Even apps that will let you turn on the microphone and listen to what's being said in real time.


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## stallion1

yes sandc, an I phone. Do you know what the apps are and do I need to have her phone to install? Might be hard to get her away from the phone!


----------



## sandc

stallion1 said:


> yes sandc, an I phone. Do you know what the apps are and do I need to have her phone to install? Might be hard to get her away from the phone!


"Find my phone" is one app. I don't have an iPhone but on android I can go to the android market and install the app without having to touch my phone. I'm guessing iTunes has something similar. You'd need her iTunes password.


----------



## stallion1

Ill definitely look into that, thanks Sandc.

Just got the VAR! Going to read through and test it out on myself!

Maybe Ill catch me cheating on me... or hear something like its not me its me... or I love me but im not in love with me. never know! If that really happens ill get both of me checked in asap.

Install set for tomorrow.

Saw her mom today. She asked how things were going. I didn't say much more than we both need to get MC but I cant force her. her mom said that MC would be good and hopes she can realize what she is doing. Her mom told me about her divorce way back and how daughter sometimes resembles the dad in certain ways. Her mom tried to bring her to counseling when she was younger but she would either get out of the car and run into the woods! or not be active in counseling. So when the wife tells me shes already been in counseling for stuff, well, I know it doesn't mean much. anyways, its nice to hear that her mother is supportive however it works out. She tells me to make sure and take care of myself. 

thanks all, be back later.


----------



## bandit.45

We'll Stallion, if she is not willing to out in the effort to work on the marriage through MC, then really an affair would just be a nail in the coffin don't you think? 

Sounds to me like she is just an unhappy person period.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> We'll Stallion, if she is not willing to out in the effort to work on the marriage through MC, then really an affair would just be a nail in the coffin don't you think?
> 
> Sounds to me like she is just an unhappy person period.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And you said she was married before?
Oh boy.


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> And you said she was married before?
> Oh boy.


No I think he was talking about her mom's divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vandal_xx

One thought; After a little time away from my STBXW and minimal contact I realized how much I did for her and how I tended to put her first. I warped my life to make her happy and then she wasn't after 9 years of being together.
I know how the mind wanders, but think about your happiness. Does it have to do with the thought of having her, or actually having her back. 
Just a little food for thought.
Keep your chin up


----------



## stallion1

Tom, she wasn't married it was about her mom. sorry for the confusion.

Bandit, yes nail in the coffin is right. After the 180 took effect she told me she would go to MC. I said id give her the mc contact info and if she was really willing to do something she could set up a time for us....we'll see. If she refused MC that might also be a nail, maybe a smaller nail, but a nail just the same. that is if I don't find anything out being a 007.


----------



## stallion1

vandal_xx said:


> One thought; After a little time away from my STBXW and minimal contact I realized how much I did for her and how I tended to put her first. I warped my life to make her happy and then she wasn't after 9 years of being together.
> I know how the mind wanders, but think about your happiness. Does it have to do with the thought of having her, or actually having her back.
> Just a little food for thought.
> Keep your chin up


I am the same way and I have been thinking this. Thanks for saying it. I feel like ive done so much to try and make her happy and that if I decide its not right because I didn't do anything for me, well, I start feeling guilty. I know I shouldn't and I can finally start to see what its doing to me. Suppose its a process.


----------



## bandit.45

Women lose respect for their husbands for lots of different reasons. God knows what your wife's issue is. A lot of time it's simply a sense of entitlement. Your wife may thinks she settled for you and deserves more from life because she is just that fabulous. You see it all the time. And horse women? Proudest most selfish women there are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

I have seen nothing in the past years that would help me argue your point on horse women! I know 2 horse women who are not selfish, her mom is one and a friend is the other. Being in the business for this long.....I would say selfish=99%


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## bandit.45

I know a couple too. They were ranchers wives, and great ladies. The ones I'm talking about are the spangly middle agers driving 45 foot gooseneck rigs spending money like it grows on trees and leaving their husbands alone at home for weeks on end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

stallion1 said:


> I have seen nothing in the past years that would help me argue your point on horse women! I know 2 horse women who are not selfish, her mom is one and a friend is the other. Being in the business for this long.....I would say selfish=99%


Sorry about earlier.
Get the book MMSLP and start doing things for you if she doesn't follow her loss.


----------



## stallion1

what is MMSLP and its becoming very clear I need to do things for me.


----------



## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> I know a couple too. They were ranchers wives, and great ladies. The ones I'm talking about are the spangly middle agers driving 45 foot gooseneck rigs spending money like it grows on trees and leaving their husbands alone at home for weeks on end.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Damn, Bandito! You know the clientele, don't you!! Those sage words of yours so aptly describes a rich, heartless, unfaithful skank one county over and literally drives a stake through my heart while being turned, all at the same time!

Thank God I won't ever have to lower my standards to ever have to go to bed with an immoral woman like that ever again. Thanks to TAM, my standards have been substantially raised! 

Thank God, At last I'm free!*


----------



## stallion1

ahhh, the big rigs.....who's paid for those monsters.........I know I have! It wasn't out of her winnings, oh wait, dressage doesn't have winnings, who ever spends the most gets the spotlight for 15 minutes............totally worth it!


----------



## anchorwatch

stallion1 said:


> what is MMSLP and its becoming very clear I need to do things for me.


Never to late to do something for you...

No More MR Nice Guy

No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group 

Married Man Sex Life


----------



## stallion1

uh, oh..........read NMMNG for 5 min.............im a fing nice guy..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................ill be up late reading. talk about accurate right off the bat!


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## bandit.45

Yep, those books are an eye opener. 

Dressage huh? Pffffffffffffffffttthhhhbbbbbbb. 

Here in Arizona rich white women have driven the price of owning a horse up so much that no one who makes less than $100k a year could even begin to afford one. No more gymkhanas, Saturday night ropings or potlucks like when I was growing up. Now it's all about money. Who has the most expensive German warmblood jumper..who has the biggest, nicest rig....who has the biggest dressing closet in their rig?

I could go on till I puke.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

anchorwatch, any chance you sail?


----------



## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> Yep, those books are an eye opener.
> 
> Dressage huh? Pffffffffffffffffttthhhhbbbbbbb.
> 
> Here in Arizona rich white women have driven the price of owning a horse up so much that no one who makes less than $100k a year could even begin to afford one. No more gymkhanas, Saturday night ropings or potlucks like when I was growing up. Now it's all about money. Who has the most expensive German warmblood jumper..who has the biggest, nicest rig....who has the biggest dressing closet in their rig?
> 
> I could go on till I puke.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was roped into wearing breaches once. The ladies ask me why I don't keep my horse at my barn...... I drive 40 min to get to where I keep my horse.........I say he has slidding shoes on and I don't want to mess up the footing in the arena for you lovely ladies. what I really mean is I don't want to deal with you so I pay to have my horse at another barn so I can get the f out of here! I like jeans, boots, tequila, and I can pee in his stall! to sum it up, I like to have some fun once in a while!:smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> I was roped into wearing breaches once. The ladies ask me why I don't keep my horse at my barn...... I drive 40 min to get to where I keep my horse.........I say he has slidding shoes on and I don't want to mess up the footing in the arena for you lovely ladies. what I really mean is I don't want to deal with you so I pay to have my horse at another barn so I can get the f out of here! I like jeans, boots, tequila, and I can pee in his stall! to sum it up, I like to have some fun once in a while!:smthumbup:


Now that's what I'm talking about. 

I went to Westworld once in Scottsdale to take pics of the land we were bidding to build an equestrian center on (I'm a contractor). And when I was walking through the stables I noticed there was no lovely manure aroma. I love the smell of sweaty horses, wet leather and horsesh!t....nope, none of that there. It was clinical, like a hospital. I was thinking "man if I was a horse I wouldn't want to live here!" 

Anyway back to your wife: you've spoiled her rotten you know. Is she really off doing business for your outfit or is she at a show?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

I hauled some horses to douglas once, long story but full of adventure! Different crowd in those parts!


----------



## bandit.45

arbitrator said:


> *Damn, Bandito! You know the clientele, don't you!! Those sage words of yours so aptly describes a rich, heartless, unfaithful skank one county over and literally drives a stake through my heart while being turned, all at the same time!
> 
> Thank God I won't ever have to lower my standards to ever have to go to bed with an immoral woman like that ever again. Thanks to TAM, my standards have been substantially raised!
> 
> Thank God, At last I'm free!*


You're a prince among men Arb. You need to find yourself a sexy little poor librarian next time you go wife hunting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> I hauled some horses to douglas once, long story but full of adventure! Different crowd in those parts!


Stallion I grew up at the Cochise County Fairgrounds. I'm from just down the road from Bisbee. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

Im a contractor as well! Those horse ladies like a guy that can build a barn.

She is looking at some horses, another trainer of ours is showing grand prix in wellington fl. yes it for the business. The wife is not showing this round. Yes, wellington, where the selfish get to a whole other level!


----------



## Chuck71

stallion1 said:


> chuck, thanks for the flowers idea, I will use that, but she is not at a hotel. Staying with another business partner of ours. I don't have exact address. Maybe I send something to her work when she gets back to see what happens. I love this idea. She does have a FB and I cant figure out password. She changed her email password. I will keep digging!
> 
> Vandal, "easier said than done" no shzt. Im good on this site. when I focus by reading replies and advice and other stories it all makes sense, then I can focus when I have contact with her because of what I have seen and learned from all of the supportive people I have in my life and especially on this site. It seems when I have time alone,,,, to think,,,,, feel emotionally about the situation,,, Is when I have a really tough time. My mind wanders.......what ifs.......maybes.......etc. Anyways, im working on it. Trying to put ME first this time.
> 
> Thanks again to all for your continued support, I know ill need more and there will be more story to follow:smthumbup:
> 
> *ps. has anyone on here not been cheated on and/or worked it out with significant other?*
> 
> also, When I read some other threads, I can say for certain I would never put up with that and why is it so hard for that person to figure it out. Its so obvious, grow some balls...............then I think...........is everyone reading my story and saying the same thing? Little bit harder when your the one wearing the shoes!!!!! Right?


read Unbe's thread


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> Im a contractor as well! Those horse ladies like a guy that can build a barn.
> 
> She is looking at some horses, another trainer of ours is showing grand prix in wellington fl. yes it for the business. The wife is not showing this round. Yes, wellington, where the selfish get to a whole other level!


I've never had experience back east or in the South. Here in Az show jumping and English equestrian have pushed out rodeo and Western. People still do trail and Western pleasure, but good old cowboy events are becoming a thing of the past. It's heartbreaking. That was my culture. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

chuck, thanks ill read it for sure.

bandit, MN WIS and down through texas is still big on reining and cow horse stuff. I love being a part of it. Jumping and English is big as well and growing around here. There is such a difference between the two with the people and actions its unbelievable. So many more women then men riding these days. I showed dressage a few times just to be involved. yes I had breaches on! Has anyone ever seen a straight guy with a beard (I have since been told to shave) and a Copenhagen in, riding a dressage horse!


----------



## Chuck71

appears she has repressed her childhood trauma. not facing issues 

and building walls around themselves....very common theme on TAM.
a marriage is two people working together for a sole outcome

not getting pi$$ed off and running and hiding, that is for twelve year

olds. How often was sex and how about in the last month or two?

IF there is not any infidelity, she needs to either "$hit or get off the 

pot". The longer things drag out, more resentment will build.

Does your sister have a relationship with your W? Do they talk 

often?


----------



## bandit.45

Ooooo..... all gussied up in proper English threads and a big wad of chew in your mouth? LOL! That's funny.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Chuck is right. She swaddles herself with horses and horse stuff as a way to escape reality, and unfortunately you probably enabled it. Maybe it's time to shake her up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

she does escape with horses. Im sure I did enable it...till now.

Definitely repressed her issues and still does. Feel like that may be a loosing battle.

Sex...........wait for it..............almost 6 months. I gave up trying. She tells me we don't have sex and it bothers her. I've been turned down so many times that I just gave up and if she wanted it great. (read about this a bit in the No more mnguy) then it was nothing for a longgggg time.

They talk but not often. My sister and I have both discussed how we are caretakers and the effects of that. The wife has a hard time with affection which my family is overwhelming with. So the wife never lets herself get more involved than needed which is frustrating but I thought the more love we gave her the better she would feel and become as a person...........................again, mr nice guy right?


----------



## soccermom2three

lifeistooshort said:


> Everything outside of a convent is a breeding ground for people that want to cheat. They find a way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry, I'm just reading this but this reminds me of my husband's aunt. She was a nun and she left the convent when she fell in love with the groundskeeper. They were happily married for many years until he passed away a few years ago.


----------



## Chuck71

I can relate to her not feeling comfortable around your family. I came from a very

non-affectionate family. I knew my parents loved me, it just was not spoken much.

My g/f, her family is very affectionate and it makes me feel very uncomfortable.

As for the sex stoppage, the spark of this issue can be timed at around when she

"lost respect for you". Did anything happen back in the fall which might have sparked

this? Usually it is a multitude of small things, not any one thing which sticks out.

I can relate to being refused sex. That was part of the breakdown of my M. The g/f did

it to me and I slipped my shorts on and returned to the den, grabbed a few beers, and

went to the pool deck. I was air guitaring to Rush when she came out. "When are

you coming to bed"....-when i feel like it- "are you mad at me"....-nah, i'm just 

jamming out-....I slept on the couch that night. Next night she came on to me, I

turned her down "Does this have something to do with last night?"... My point is

most see a W turning down sex as normal, but if a M does...he has issues.

So many people who explain the crazy things their spouse has done, and when asked 

about their childhood...a vast majority have came from highly dysfunctional backgrounds.

It's time to give her two choices, either work on the marriage or work on getting a D.


----------



## bandit.45

The timing of the beginning of her sexual withdrawal could also coincide with the beginning of an affair. Many women can only give their affection to one man at a time. 

Stallion if you gave not done so already, now would be the time to go through her belongings. Look for lingerie or sexy underwear you have never seen her wear, sex toys, condoms....scour her closet and drawers. If you can get on her home computer and check for secret email accounts. Have you looked hard into her Facebook page? If you have her password see if she has been private messaging through Facebook. Just some ideas, many of which I'm sure you have already tried.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

*Re: Re: bucked off*



stallion1 said:


> anchorwatch, any chance you sail?


Nope. Powerboat.

Did you read it twice?


----------



## stallion1

Ancho, I read some, beg, mid, end, very long but informative and relating (unbe thread). So he knew she was cheating. Am I correct on that? and he could let that go to work it out! not sure but I think it was Conrad who said, "leave skid marks on the roses on your way out."

I love my wife. I just couldn't get over cheating. Im happy for them if he is truly ok with it but doesn't this show regression back to the old ways.

I also think that I am/need changing like unbe. I can see the effects already what little changes ive made and her reactions. Im not certain at this point even if shes not cheating, that It will work out. Im not putting up with her sht anymore. I am willing to make effort, change, be a better person, and if she cant see that she needs to make big changes personally and in the marriage then goodbye.

Bandit, she has a hard time giving affection to one guy at a time. That's why I wonder if there was a one nighter or two. If that was the case, I would imagine it would be hard to figure out. I'll try my best.

There are some new underware. No NEW sex toys. New clothes has been a big thing the last couple months. Her passwords are all changed.

She has an apple comp. don't know how to get into her accounts without passwords, unless I get a keylogger which may be my next purchase.

anyways, shes been somewhat nice the last few days but when I didn't engage in the conversation over the phone today I was automatically crabby again. She pauses a lot of the times after I answer her questions,,, waiting for me to bring something up. After the pause is long enough I assume the conversation isn't going anywhere so I say, well, sounds good, ill talk to you later...in a pleasant voice of course. Then comes the text about me being crabby again!! 

I know she has been wanting me to bring us up again but im not. I brought it up too many times with bs responses. If she wants to talk about it she can ask me! Ill be moving forward with me for now....


----------



## bandit.45

Is she coming back to town tonight? Is she still staying at the ranch?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

I guess she gets back Friday. Thought it was Thursday but her barn schedule has always said Friday. She is still staying here. Ill know more of her move or not to move intentions when she gets back.

She tells me everyone tells her she or I should move apart while we are working on this! I know who she has talked to. There is only one person who would tell her that. This person is about as smart as my............nope not smarter than anything. This friend of hers (whom my wife likes because the friend idolizes my wife and my wife loves it. She is a groupie. She would say move apart because then she would get more time with my wife). This is my theory but I don't ask any of her friends anything about what the wife is saying.

Everytime I say go ahead and move if you have to.. she changes her mind. But she has been online looking at condos.


----------



## bandit.45

Is the toxic friend a *****? Watch it. I'm telling ya man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Why would she move out and be away from her horses? That doesn't make sense. Nothing she is doing makes sense. When did the changes in her start Stallion? Was there some big calamity or occurrence in your lives where you saw her start to draw away?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> Why would she move out and be away from her horses? That doesn't make sense. Nothing she is doing makes sense. When did the changes in her start Stallion? Was there some big calamity or occurrence in your lives where you saw her start to draw away?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to comment on when you spoke about "the smell"

I'm not versed much at all on horses but grew up around

a farm. Most people would freak but the smell of cow chit, 

the flies, just the very sound....takes me back. Today where 

I live, there are still quite a few farms. But one by one, when grandpa

dies, the kids sell the land and it is subdivided for homes. The 

big farms are now more assembly line. Papaw would chit his

pants at what goes on today.


----------



## stallion1

my wife is easy on the eyes. her friend is not a lesbian and I would not go near her based on looks or personality for a million dollars. well, maybe for a mil but for sure not 500k. There is no chance in hell the wife would go for that friend. Not ruling out a girl, which I highly doubt, but no way that girl. Did you ever see shallow hal the movie. the friend is the girl that would look bad inside and out! Maybe the wife likes her because it makes her feel better of herself! She has some great friends, why she sticks with this one so much, ill never know.

Like I said she threatens to move out, then recants. If she did move she would come to the farm everyday still. I think she actually wants me to move but im not falling into the trap of saying ok ill move if that helps YOU. another nice guy thing I would have done a month ago.

We have both been under stress since we got married. Bought a farm, wasn't making it financially, I got an investor to help us build a new barn for a high end training facility. It was just finished two years ago. We have been in a business relationship from the start. Slowly drifting apart for at least a year or more. THe business is starting to get rolling well. We would argue a lot. I would try to do everything for her and would let her know on occasion. (mr nice guy) after we got into our battles things would be ignored and go back to "normal" Last 6 months or so this pattern happened more frequently. The last blowout, I wouldn't let it go and she has been pissed ever since. says this is inconvenient and id be happier without her etc. like shes pushing me to want a divorce. Honestly I think she wants out and doesn't want to be the one who people see as the one who filed for divorce. She has brought it up a few times in the past and I knew she wouldn't so I just said then go file. She never would do anything about it and it was buried over and over. 

This time it was when I wouldn't let it go and said we need counseling and there is no letting it go until we got help that she has been so weird.

Although, a month before our last blowout, she started running, tanning, buying clothes, trying to lose weight, and the arguments were set off by smaller and smaller issues.


----------



## vandal_xx

Sounds like you are getting your head in the right place. Sounds like she is prepping for her next move...Are you? 
You are already seeing things clearer. I hope she snaps into it, but if she doesn't....even if she does make sure your head is right to do what is right for you. 
Every month/year you get treated like crap is time you will never have to be treated right.
Keep your chin up


----------



## bandit.45

Sounds like she is ready to make an exit. If she does have an affair it will be an "exit affair". But it could be that the two of you have just lost touch with each other and because of the business it just never got any better. I dunno Stallion. This could go either way. She could be just as easily walking away as she could be cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

yes, its been a rough road. here is what I see at 50k.

I wanted to build this business but I did it mostly for her. I was the nice guy. She has a lot of issues personally that have never been dealt with. I used to think those wouldn't matter and that I could help her get over it. As well as having her be a part of my family who would show her so much love. 

Now i don't think I can " help her". she has to do it for her. (im not blaming her for the relationship issues, I will own my part but she will have to own hers as well)

if she cheated I hope I find out. It will fast track things

if she didn't, im still (because of this site, research, me working on me) not sure if we can work it out.... she will have to make some big changes and actually want to.

my last post I said the big change may have come from me saying I wont ignore this anymore. I think she may want to exit stage left (affair or not) because she sees this is leading to counseling and dealing with issues that shes long buried and possibly will never acknowledge and or deal with.. so she runs.

She made it clear two weeks ago she will never have kids. (also past issues i wont talk about) I said ok at that point so desperately wanting things to work.

Now i think i didn't want kids cause deep down i new that would turn out bad for everyone. Today i feel like its still a possibility in my life and that is something i would really want. Why would i ever let someone take that away?

I do love her. and would hate to have a failed marriage.

I do realize that i could be miserable for toooo long.

I feel guilty for letting her go based on my needs but realize I should have a good life. I shouldn't suffer so the other person may or may not be happy.

Its a tough road. A tough decision i feel i will have to make. She really cant handle big decisions. Shes pushing me to make it for her so she doesn't have to feel any guilt....my theory. 

I almost think deep down she knows what a mess she has inside and she sees me as unhappy. She might feel guilt because of this and is pushing me out. She has said a few times in the past "you would be happier with someone else"

or shes cheating! either way tough decisions on the horizon.:smcowboy:


----------



## bandit.45

It sounds like you have your head screwed on correctly. Just hover at 50,000 and watch her and let the VAR do its work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

stallion1 said:


> yes, its been a rough road. here is what I see at 50k.
> 
> I wanted to build this business but I did it mostly for her. I was the nice guy. She has a lot of issues personally that have never been dealt with. I used to think those wouldn't matter and that I could help her get over it. As well as having her be a part of my family who would show her so much love.
> 
> Now i don't think I can " help her". she has to do it for her. (im not blaming her for the relationship issues, I will own my part but she will have to own hers as well)
> 
> if she cheated I hope I find out. It will fast track things
> 
> if she didn't, im still (because of this site, research, me working on me) not sure if we can work it out.... she will have to make some big changes and actually want to.
> 
> my last post I said the big change may have come from me saying I wont ignore this anymore. I think she may want to exit stage left (affair or not) because she sees this is leading to counseling and dealing with issues that shes long buried and possibly will never acknowledge and or deal with.. so she runs.
> 
> She made it clear two weeks ago she will never have kids. (also past issues i wont talk about) I said ok at that point so desperately wanting things to work.
> 
> Now i think i didn't want kids cause deep down i new that would turn out bad for everyone. Today i feel like its still a possibility in my life and that is something i would really want. Why would i ever let someone take that away?
> 
> I do love her. and would hate to have a failed marriage.
> 
> I do realize that i could be miserable for toooo long.
> 
> I feel guilty for letting her go based on my needs but realize I should have a good life. I shouldn't suffer so the other person may or may not be happy.
> 
> Its a tough road. A tough decision i feel i will have to make. She really cant handle big decisions. Shes pushing me to make it for her so she doesn't have to feel any guilt....my theory.
> 
> I almost think deep down she knows what a mess she has inside and she sees me as unhappy. She might feel guilt because of this and is pushing me out. She has said a few times in the past "you would be happier with someone else"
> 
> or shes cheating! either way tough decisions on the horizon.:smcowboy:


I will always love a part of my X, damn she was magical

but somewhere along the way, that part of her died

if that part of her ever came back, I'd like to remain

friends....but don't hold your breath on it.

the lost person she now is.....has to find her way in this

world alone. she was my princess, key word: was


----------



## sandc

A marriage is a partnership. No one should have to trick, cajole, or trap their partner into staying. She's already voted with her actions. You got nothing to feel selfish about. She's doing her thing. Time for you to do yours. Time to ride off into the sunset cowboy.


----------



## Chuck71

roy rogers is smiling somewhere


----------



## sandc

Hey, If I can get Roy Rogers' stamp of approval then I'll take it!


----------



## stallion1

Chuck71 said:


> I will always love a part of my X, damn she was magical
> 
> but somewhere along the way, that part of her died
> 
> if that part of her ever came back, I'd like to remain
> 
> friends....but don't hold your breath on it.
> 
> the lost person she now is.....has to find her way in this
> 
> world alone. she was my princess, key word: was


so its ok to love that person and what you had.....as long as you can accept that you made the right choice and feel good about who you have become? 

bandit, yes i keep trying to put myself at 50k. VAR will start running Friday......nervous about what i hear.

sandc, nice reference! however, if i do ride off.........maybe it will be into the sunrise!


----------



## sandc

stallion1 said:


> so its ok to love that person and what you had.....as long as you can accept that you made the right choice and feel good about who you have become?
> 
> bandit, yes i keep trying to put myself at 50k. VAR will start running Friday......nervous about what i hear.
> 
> sandc, nice reference! however, if i do ride off.........maybe it will be into the sunrise!


Well I guess it's fun to do in the morning too. 

I like riding at night personally but that's just me.


----------



## stallion1

sunrise... sunset... both awesome! im more of an evening guy as well, just thought id through it in the mix!


----------



## Conrad

Stallion,

cb is a good man. Use him as your safe guy. Stay away from relatives and other people who will leak news. BIL may be safe, but he may not be. Even good guys tell their wives things that they really shouldn't. So, do not talk to him about this anymore.

>>yes, its been a rough road. here is what I see at 50k.<<

You're currently @35-40k, but getting there

>>I wanted to build this business but I did it mostly for her.<<

Bad. Attractive men follow their dreams and their partners admire them for that emotional strength. Think of the hornet's nest between her ears. Now, you are doing things to please that hot mess? Her emotional response to that is, "huh" She hates herself, and you're trying to please that? Total futility.

>>I was the nice guy. She has a lot of issues personally that have never been dealt with. I used to think those wouldn't matter and that I could help her get over it. As well as having her be a part of my family who would show her so much love.<<

She doesn't respond to warmth with love. Her parents were cold. That's what she associates with people she desires love from. Boundaries need to be firm and unshakeable - and enforced with no mercy. 

>>Now i don't think I can " help her". she has to do it for her. (im not blaming her for the relationship issues, I will own my part but she will have to own hers as well)<<

You think this will be some sort of logical discussion? Quit thinking she's going to respond like a man.

>>if she cheated I hope I find out. It will fast track things<<

If you pm a poster named "weightlifter", he's the 007 of TAM. I'm sure he'll be happy to help you.

>>if she didn't, im still (because of this site, research, me working on me) not sure if we can work it out.... she will have to make some big changes and actually want to.<<

Once again, this won't be a logical discussion. It will be you stating your boundary. "I'm not ok with this" and making it stick. Not by trying to control her actions, but by demonstrating what YOU will not put up with.

>>my last post I said the big change may have come from me saying I wont ignore this anymore. I think she may want to exit stage left (affair or not) because she sees this is leading to counseling and dealing with issues that shes long buried and possibly will never acknowledge and or deal with.. so she runs.<<

The colder you get and the more self-respect you demonstrate, the more likely she will be to want YOU.

>>She made it clear two weeks ago she will never have kids. (also past issues i wont talk about) I said ok at that point so desperately wanting things to work.<<

She interprets this as doomat behavior in her emotional centers.

>>Now i think i didn't want kids cause deep down i new that would turn out bad for everyone.<<

This sort of thinking is fixing and enabling. Why is all that on you? Really - think about it.

>>Today i feel like its still a possibility in my life and that is something i would really want. Why would i ever let someone take that away?<<

If you're not ok with being childless, this is part of the mix. And, should be weighed as a factor in your final decision.

>>I do love her. and would hate to have a failed marriage.<<

What do you love about her? Do you feel like a failed marriage is some kind of "F" on a life report card? It's only a disaster if you learn nothing and go do the same thing again.

>>I do realize that i could be miserable for toooo long.<<

At 35, you likely have some time to get it right.

>>I feel guilty for letting her go based on my needs but realize I should have a good life. I shouldn't suffer so the other person may or may not be happy.<<

Make yourself happy first. You don't sound happy.

>>Its a tough road. A tough decision i feel i will have to make. She really cant handle big decisions. Shes pushing me to make it for her so she doesn't have to feel any guilt....my theory.<<

Look at your words. Your focus is still on her. What about you?

>>I almost think deep down she knows what a mess she has inside and she sees me as unhappy. She might feel guilt because of this and is pushing me out. She has said a few times in the past "you would be happier with someone else"<<

More about her.

Think about the hornet's nest between her ears. Damned near anything is likely to come out of that ridiculous mouth.

>>or shes cheating! either way tough decisions on the horizon<<

They'll actually seem easy once you get right with yourself.

Are you in counseling?


----------



## helolover

Conrad said:


> Stallion,
> 
> cb is a good man. Use him as your safe guy. Stay away from relatives and other people who will leak news. BIL may be safe, but he may not be. Even good guys tell their wives things that they really shouldn't. So, do not talk to him about this anymore.
> 
> >>yes, its been a rough road. here is what I see at 50k.<<
> 
> You're currently @35-40k, but getting there
> 
> >>I wanted to build this business but I did it mostly for her.<<
> 
> Bad. Attractive men follow their dreams and their partners admire them for that emotional strength. Think of the hornet's nest between her ears. Now, you are doing things to please that hot mess? Her emotional response to that is, "huh" She hates herself, and you're trying to please that? Total futility.
> 
> >>I was the nice guy. She has a lot of issues personally that have never been dealt with. I used to think those wouldn't matter and that I could help her get over it. As well as having her be a part of my family who would show her so much love.<<
> 
> She doesn't respond to warmth with love. Her parents were cold. That's what she associates with people she desires love from. Boundaries need to be firm and unshakeable - and enforced with no mercy.
> 
> >>Now i don't think I can " help her". she has to do it for her. (im not blaming her for the relationship issues, I will own my part but she will have to own hers as well)<<
> 
> You think this will be some sort of logical discussion? Quit thinking she's going to respond like a man.
> 
> >>if she cheated I hope I find out. It will fast track things<<
> 
> If you pm a poster named "weightlifter", he's the 007 of TAM. I'm sure he'll be happy to help you.
> 
> >>if she didn't, im still (because of this site, research, me working on me) not sure if we can work it out.... she will have to make some big changes and actually want to.<<
> 
> Once again, this won't be a logical discussion. It will be you stating your boundary. "I'm not ok with this" and making it stick. Not by trying to control her actions, but by demonstrating what YOU will not put up with.
> 
> >>my last post I said the big change may have come from me saying I wont ignore this anymore. I think she may want to exit stage left (affair or not) because she sees this is leading to counseling and dealing with issues that shes long buried and possibly will never acknowledge and or deal with.. so she runs.<<
> 
> The colder you get and the more self-respect you demonstrate, the more likely she will be to want YOU.
> 
> >>She made it clear two weeks ago she will never have kids. (also past issues i wont talk about) I said ok at that point so desperately wanting things to work.<<
> 
> She interprets this as doomat behavior in her emotional centers.
> 
> >>Now i think i didn't want kids cause deep down i new that would turn out bad for everyone.<<
> 
> This sort of thinking is fixing and enabling. Why is all that on you? Really - think about it.
> 
> >>Today i feel like its still a possibility in my life and that is something i would really want. Why would i ever let someone take that away?<<
> 
> If you're not ok with being childless, this is part of the mix. And, should be weighed as a factor in your final decision.
> 
> >>I do love her. and would hate to have a failed marriage.<<
> 
> What do you love about her? Do you feel like a failed marriage is some kind of "F" on a life report card? It's only a disaster if you learn nothing and go do the same thing again.
> 
> >>I do realize that i could be miserable for toooo long.<<
> 
> At 35, you likely have some time to get it right.
> 
> >>I feel guilty for letting her go based on my needs but realize I should have a good life. I shouldn't suffer so the other person may or may not be happy.<<
> 
> Make yourself happy first. You don't sound happy.
> 
> >>Its a tough road. A tough decision i feel i will have to make. She really cant handle big decisions. Shes pushing me to make it for her so she doesn't have to feel any guilt....my theory.<<
> 
> Look at your words. Your focus is still on her. What about you?
> 
> >>I almost think deep down she knows what a mess she has inside and she sees me as unhappy. She might feel guilt because of this and is pushing me out. She has said a few times in the past "you would be happier with someone else"<<
> 
> More about her.
> 
> Think about the hornet's nest between her ears. Damned near anything is likely to come out of that ridiculous mouth.
> 
> >>or shes cheating! either way tough decisions on the horizon<<
> 
> They'll actually seem easy once you get right with yourself.
> 
> Are you in counseling?


This post should be a sticky.


----------



## stallion1

Conrad,

thanks for taking the time! Have to run this morning but a couple quick things and ill get back at it later.

35k is fair enough!

I know theres still progress for me to make

When you broke my post down I can easily see im still somewhat focused on her.

comments about logical discussions.......I get it. Ill do whats good for me. She can see my actions.

Counseling starts next week for me. For MC, not sure yet.

again Conrad, thanks for your response. That is very helpful, insightful.


----------



## cbnero

I look back now and it seems much simpler - the fact that she doesn't love you anymore is already a breakdown of the marriage. Whether she is too afraid to tell you this directly or whether she is/isn't having an affair is almost meaningless. 

Her actions speak volumes. She is done and no longer wants to be your wife. The pain has already been inflicted on you and the damage is done. 

Mentally our thoughts naturally want to follow the same trails and ruts we have established over our lifetime. Now is the time to forge a new way of thinking. I find myself slipping into the ruts again because I still need to deal with the XW with the kids. Poor communication/bitterness/etc... I don't want that in my life anymore.

Getting your brain to switch gears to this new way of thinking takes a lot of work before it comes naturally.

You already know the answers for YOU. This person doesn't care about you. The dream of rebuying the barn from the investor is dead. She isn't thinking logically to see this yet. If you decide it's over, why would you waste more years of your life for someone who views you as easily expendable? 

Talk to the investor and do what YOU WANT. If that's the marriage, that's fine. But then start preparing for what coming, no guarantees it will work out, and then a lifetime of wondering if she will do this again later on. 

That to me is the fatal flaw in people. Some people mean it when they take their vows. Some people just like the idea of it but for whatever reason it's not real, and neither are they. Just a different view on life I guess.


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> I look back now and it seems much simpler - the fact that she doesn't love you anymore is already a breakdown of the marriage. Whether she is too afraid to tell you this directly or whether she is/isn't having an affair is almost meaningless.
> 
> Her actions speak volumes. She is done and no longer wants to be your wife. The pain has already been inflicted on you and the damage is done.
> 
> Mentally our thoughts naturally want to follow the same trails and ruts we have established over our lifetime. Now is the time to forge a new way of thinking. I find myself slipping into the ruts again because I still need to deal with the XW with the kids. Poor communication/bitterness/etc... I don't want that in my life anymore.
> 
> Getting your brain to switch gears to this new way of thinking takes a lot of work before it comes naturally.
> 
> You already know the answers for YOU. This person doesn't care about you. The dream of rebuying the barn from the investor is dead. She isn't thinking logically to see this yet. If you decide it's over, why would you waste more years of your life for someone who views you as easily expendable?
> 
> Talk to the investor and do what YOU WANT. If that's the marriage, that's fine. But then start preparing for what coming, no guarantees it will work out, and then a lifetime of wondering if she will do this again later on.
> 
> That to me is the fatal flaw in people. Some people mean it when they take their vows. Some people just like the idea of it but for whatever reason it's not real, and neither are they. Just a different view on life I guess.


More likely those hornets in her head are so loud she doesn't have any idea what she wants.

But, first things first, crush the affair.


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> so its okbandit, yes i keep trying to put myself at 50k. VAR will start running Friday......nervous about what i hear.


If you listen and you start to hear something painful....STOP.

Have your BIL or a close trusted friend listen to the VAR for you and report what they heard. Spare yourself the pain. All you need is the confirmation one way or another. 

Thorburn heard his wife having sex with her OM... it will haunt him the rest of his life.


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> If you listen and you start to hear something painful....STOP.
> 
> Have your BIL or a close trusted friend listen to the VAR for you and report what they heard. Spare yourself the pain. All you need is the confirmation one way or another.
> 
> Thorburn heard his wife having sex with her OM... it will haunt him the rest of his life.


OUCH....... damn..... that guy needs a fifth JD


----------



## sandc

bandit.45 said:


> If you listen and you start to hear something painful....STOP.
> 
> Have your BIL or a close trusted friend listen to the VAR for you and report what they heard. Spare yourself the pain. All you need is the confirmation one way or another.
> 
> Thorburn heard his wife having sex with her OM... it will haunt him the rest of his life.


DevistatedDad heard it too through the spy app on his wife's iPhone. They are in R now. She's damn lucky they are too.


----------



## Chuck71

my hat is off to those guy, no way in he!! I could do it

stall......I face the same problem, I too want a child.

Current g/f may not be able to....no child is a deal breaker

for me. I have a big problem relating to younger women.

I loved dating 35-45 y/o women when I was in college. Now I'm

in my forties....those women are now 50 and up.

Not an area you would explore, if you want a child.

I had a chat in class with a younger female... she spoke of

the year she was born.....it was a year after I left high school.

Bartender..... make that two fifths of JD


----------



## stallion1

ive checked all texts and numbers again. Since shes been gone I know everyone she has been in contact with by phone. unless they don't show deleted text on the phone bill.

Var is ready to go. I'll turn it on tomorrow before she gets back.

See what that turns up....stay tuned. Thinking about getting the key logger for her computer but she has it with her so ill wait till she gets back to install.

Chuck, kids were a maybe at the time we were married. We both were fighting to get the barn up and running. She has another job and I have another business. before then I was positive about having kids. After we were married, I was ok with not. especially since neither of us had any time and finances were beyond insane. now I am seeing all of my friends have kids, my godson (sisters kid), with whom I spend a lot of time with, makes me realize that I may have let the kid thing go because I was in a bad situation. I wasn't focused on what I.I.I.I really wanted. Weird maybe but that kid brings some life back to me when im with or think about him! 

but,, if your in your 40's .... you could still seek the 35-45 year olds. There will always be that age group out there no matter how old you get!

CB..... getting my head to switch gears is tough. I was talking about seeing things at 50k until Conrad told me I was definitely not at 50 k yet! Thanks Conrad it helped me a lot btw. So im working at it, I want to get there, I will continue my..well....me path. you cb, put me in the right direction, right away! That has played a significant role in where I am at not even two weeks later! Lets keep things moving! Thanks buddy!


----------



## bandit.45

You're still a young buck. Even if you and your wife divorce you have plenty of time to find a younger woman and have some babies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion do really want to continue being a farmer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

business wise, im not opposed to keep the farm going... im also a contractor... I have a business degree.... lets just say in the next year or so, the farm will either be doing very well and I will keep going,,,,, or it wont and ill be done with it. I have plenty of opportunities if it goes away so im not to concerned about it right now. I would, however, like to see something ive built, be a success.


----------



## LongWalk

Kids are great. You won't regret having them (with the right woman).


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> ive checked all texts and numbers again. Since shes been gone I know everyone she has been in contact with by phone. unless they don't show deleted text on the phone bill.
> 
> Var is ready to go. I'll turn it on tomorrow before she gets back.
> 
> See what that turns up....stay tuned. Thinking about getting the key logger for her computer but she has it with her so ill wait till she gets back to install.
> 
> Chuck, kids were a maybe at the time we were married. We both were fighting to get the barn up and running. She has another job and I have another business. before then I was positive about having kids. After we were married, I was ok with not. especially since neither of us had any time and finances were beyond insane. now I am seeing all of my friends have kids, my godson (sisters kid), with whom I spend a lot of time with, makes me realize that I may have let the kid thing go because I was in a bad situation. I wasn't focused on what I.I.I.I really wanted. Weird maybe but that kid brings some life back to me when im with or think about him!
> 
> but,, if your in your 40's .... you could still seek the 35-45 year olds. There will always be that age group out there no matter how old you get!
> 
> CB..... getting my head to switch gears is tough. I was talking about seeing things at 50k until Conrad told me I was definitely not at 50 k yet! Thanks Conrad it helped me a lot btw. So im working at it, I want to get there, I will continue my..well....me path. you cb, put me in the right direction, right away! That has played a significant role in where I am at not even two weeks later! Lets keep things moving! Thanks buddy!


There's another level of this.

Therapists are very helpful.

It's also helpful to have a "safe man"

It's a place to dump your thoughts when you're getting flaky and need some quick feedback.

cb could be that guy for you - if he's willing.

He's a graduate student.


----------



## stallion1

Conrad,

will be seeing a therapist next week. CB has already offered to be around when I need it. He is a champ. Its nice to have a friend like that! as well as all the people on this site. THe support is unbelievable.


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> Conrad,
> 
> will be seeing a therapist next week. CB has already offered to be around when I need it. He is a champ. Its nice to have a friend like that! as well as all the people on this site. THe support is unbelievable.


Men need to be men.

We're about that here.


----------



## stallion1

so the wife gets back soon. I got a text from her younger bro wanting to stay here for the weekend. I text her to see if she got the message before I said anything......no reponse. I decided I didn't want anybody here this weekend so I text him back saying no. we have some stuff we are going through. its a bad time.

he writes back, oh..just talked to my sister, she said it was ok. The wife calls me back and said she just talked to him and said it was ok.

I said didn't it occur to you to even ask me about it. she said im sorry, I didn't want him here either but he is getting away from his moms (he has same dad but dif mom.....wife #3!) house for a couple days. I just dropped it for the sake of not arguing with her anymore.

So I get home and her niece is here (her older sisters kid,,, older sister has same dad dif mom....wife#1) she tells me auntie said I could come over for the weekend! 

WTF

I get along well with both of these people but seriously,,, right now with the crap we have going on....talk about not wanting to deal with anything 

im super anxious about the var in her car. not to much about what it will have to say, but that she will somehow find out. im sure itll be fine.


----------



## arbitrator

Chuck71 said:


> OUCH....... damn..... that guy needs a fifth JD


*A fifth, hell! Thorburn's deserving of several crates of these gallon jugs!*


----------



## Ceegee

stallion1 said:


> so the wife gets back soon. I got a text from her younger bro wanting to stay here for the weekend. I text her to see if she got the message before I said anything......no reponse. I decided I didn't want anybody here this weekend so I text him back saying no. we have some stuff we are going through. its a bad time.
> 
> 
> 
> he writes back, oh..just talked to my sister, she said it was ok. The wife calls me back and said she just talked to him and said it was ok.
> 
> 
> 
> I said didn't it occur to you to even ask me about it. she said im sorry, I didn't want him here either but he is getting away from his moms (he has same dad but dif mom.....wife #3!) house for a couple days. I just dropped it for the sake of not arguing with her anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> So I get home and her niece is here (her older sisters kid,,, older sister has same dad dif mom....wife#1) she tells me auntie said I could come over for the weekend!
> 
> 
> 
> WTF
> 
> 
> 
> I get along well with both of these people but seriously,,, right now with the crap we have going on....talk about not wanting to deal with anything
> 
> 
> 
> im super anxious about the var in her car. not to much about what it will have to say, but that she will somehow find out. im sure itll be fine.



Good time to get all gussied up and go out. 

Be nice and happy as you walk out. 

Tell everyone good night and to not wait up.


----------



## bandit.45

I agree. Put on your nicest Larry Mahans and your slickest Stetson and go honky tonkin. Stay out all night. Get her attention.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

thing is, ive got clients to meet at 8am! awesome timing. No way ill be out late.... but tomorrow is a different story! ill call a few people and maybe go out for a bit tonight. 

I keep thinking, the two who are staying here might think its odd, we all usually go do something together... then I think they will figure it out soon enough and it about me now. Not anyone else......no more mr nice guy.......right


----------



## stallion1

arb...that is one hell of a jug!!!!!!!


----------



## sandc

Wear the black hat for a while...


----------



## arbitrator

stallion1 said:


> arb...that is one hell of a jug!!!!!!!


*And bless his heart . . . Thorburn deserves it!*


----------



## stallion1

well friends, ive got plans tonight. I was going to wait till she got back to leave. she was supposed to be home 1 hour ago. her friend picked her up. (the one friend who is completely insane) Im sure they went out for a few on the way home. Or did she just tell me her friend was picking her up. Ill ask her niece tomorrow who dropped her off! because im out of her for a while. 

I will check in when I get home, im sure ill have some text msg to share. Then begins the VAR!


----------



## bandit.45

Have fun brother. Tell us how it went. 

BTW, your wife is a piece of work. Most wives getting back from a trip would want to come straight home to see their husbands first. Shows you where she is at. Naw, I think it's over pal. Better lawyer up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> so the wife gets back soon. I got a text from her younger bro wanting to stay here for the weekend. I text her to see if she got the message before I said anything......no reponse. I decided I didn't want anybody here this weekend so I text him back saying no. we have some stuff we are going through. its a bad time.
> 
> he writes back, oh..just talked to my sister, she said it was ok. The wife calls me back and said she just talked to him and said it was ok.
> 
> I said didn't it occur to you to even ask me about it. she said im sorry, I didn't want him here either but he is getting away from his moms (he has same dad but dif mom.....wife #3!) house for a couple days. I just dropped it for the sake of not arguing with her anymore.
> 
> So I get home and her niece is here (her older sisters kid,,, older sister has same dad dif mom....wife#1) she tells me auntie said I could come over for the weekend!
> 
> WTF
> 
> I get along well with both of these people but seriously,,, right now with the crap we have going on....talk about not wanting to deal with anything
> 
> im super anxious about the var in her car. not to much about what it will have to say, but that she will somehow find out. im sure itll be fine.


How long have you been afraid of her reactions?


----------



## cbnero

Since he hung out with me and the Ayatollah. He saw me cover my genitalia everytime my wife steamrolled me and thought it looked like a great way to live for himself. Envy and jealousy will get you every time! 

*cracks a beer

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Kevinb

You sound like a very strong type of person. Good luck, I think it will work out fine for you.


----------



## bandit.45

Conrad said:


> How long have you been afraid of her reactions?


How did his post lead you to come to this conclusion?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

I think the part of him allowing company he didn't want. Even though his wife wasnt at home. I suppose he could have held his ground. 

Mr Nice Guy maybe?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

She's the one not coming home after flying in. She's the one avoiding confrontation. She invited those kids over specifically so she would have a buffer...an excuse not to engage with him. Who's the coward here?

I hope Stallion is in his truck in the parking lot of a saloon with a hot little cowgirl straddling him and shoving her tongue down his throat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> She's the one not coming home after flying in. She's the one avoiding confrontation. She invited those kids over specifically so she would have a buffer...an excuse not to engage with him. Who's the coward here?
> 
> I hope Stallion is in his truck in the parking lot of a saloon with a hot little cowgirl straddling him and shoving her tongue down his throat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Eh boot skoot boogie?


----------



## bandit.45

Eh.....I probably shouldn't be hoping that. Being this is a pro -marriage site and all.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Eh.....I probably shouldn't be hoping that. Being this is a pro -marriage site and all.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was a little graphicbut the kids are asleep.


----------



## bandit.45

Well I hope at least some gal grabs his ass as he's walking by. Nothing like a little female groping to lift a guy's spirits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Well I hope at least some gal grabs his ass as he's walking by. Nothing like a little female groping to lift a guy's spirits.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But if a guy does it in feminazi culture that would be rape.
But I wouldn't mind it


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> But if a guy does it in feminazi culture that would be rape.
> But I wouldn't mind it


Yup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

bandit.45 said:


> How did his post lead you to come to this conclusion?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*im super anxious about the var in her car. not to much about what it will have to say, but that she will somehow find out.*


----------



## bandit.45

Well all we can hope is that Stallion is foxy and hid the VAR well enough that she can't find it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

bandit.45 said:


> Well all we can hope is that Stallion is foxy and hid the VAR well enough that she can't find it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let me put it this way.

Within the last 6 months, my wife was enraged that I looked at her email (which she left open).

I was unapologetic.

When I hear you telling me you are having boundary issues with men, I'm damned well going to get to the bottom of it any way I can.

That wasn't how things used to be.


----------



## bandit.45

Let Stallion get some intel on her before he does the alpha male sh!t. Right now he needs to be nice and accommodating and give her plenty of rope to hang herself. It's all in the timing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

glad to see you boys were talking about me while I was out. I really went over to my construction partners house to watch the gophers loose.

She calls me an hour after I left. I answer and say hi. she says hello. pause.... I say, whats up...............she says ...nothing why? I say you called me??????????? she asked what I was doing. I said I was going over some business stuff cause we have a meeting tomorrow at 9.

her......ok im taking the niece over to .......(her friends house) me....why.............her cause we want to go over there......ok have fun...............

so she invites these people over and then leaves.............

sorry nothing juicy tonight! 

she was so mad I wasn't around.

im giving her all the rope she needs


----------



## bandit.45

Remember to be pleasant and non confrontational when you talk to her. The 180 rules are specific. She was checking up on you no doubt. But don't lie to her. You should have told her "I'm over at my buddy's house watching the game... ". If she got mad at you all you had to say is "sorry you feel that way, but I had made plans beforehand to come here tonight. Have a nice evening."

That would have had her saying "what the fvck? "
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

bandit.45 said:


> Remember to be pleasant and non confrontational when you talk to her. The 180 rules are specific. She was checking up on you no doubt. But don't lie to her. You should have told her "I'm over at my buddy's house watching the game... ". If she got mad at you all you had to say is "sorry you feel that way, but I had made plans beforehand to come here tonight. Have a nice evening."
> 
> That would have had her saying "what the fvck? "
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Niceguy manipulators lie to "stay out of trouble"

No more of that.


----------



## Chuck71

I'm sure you and W would have to use attorney with assets

but I recommend printing off a DIY D.... sign it and leave it on

the kitchen table. Trust me...you WILL get a reaction.

There is no way I could deal with her 'Mickey Mouse BS'

Your W has more internal conflicts than Sri Lanka.


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> If you listen and you start to hear something painful....STOP.
> 
> Have your BIL or a close trusted friend listen to the VAR for you and report what they heard. Spare yourself the pain. All you need is the confirmation one way or another.
> 
> Thorburn heard his wife having sex with her OM... it will haunt him the rest of his life.


which of Thorburn's threads have this in it?

hate to ask but he has quite a few blogs


----------



## stallion1

Conrad said:


> Niceguy manipulators lie to "stay out of trouble"
> 
> No more of that.




Got it. another lesson learned. there will be more!

found a hotel receipt. it was for the first day she got there. do I even ask about it or do I ask her to tell me all about her trip?


----------



## cbnero

stallion1 said:


> Conrad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Niceguy manipulators lie to "stay out of trouble"
> 
> No more of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got it. another lesson learned. there will be more!
> 
> found a hotel receipt. it was for the first day she got there. do I even ask about it or do I ask her to tell me all about her trip?
Click to expand...

Nope. Take a photo of it or hide the receipt. Say nothing. Dont be rude or cold, but act like you dont care at all what she does.

Was she not supposed to be staying in a hotel while she was down there?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## LongWalk

Right now you are just in intelligence mode. Not interrogation.


----------



## stallion1

i guess i didn't ask but she always stays with the other trainer in her apt. so she doesn't have to spend hundreds on hotel rooms.

this receipt was for one night at a nice hotel. i also noticed on phone records that she texted the other trainer almost everyday from approx. 630 to 8ish am. if she was staying with her why would they be texting? odd


----------



## cbnero

stallion1 said:


> i guess i didn't ask but she always stays with the other trainer in her apt. so she doesn't have to spend hundreds on hotel rooms.
> 
> this receipt was for one night at a nice hotel. i also noticed on phone records that she texted the other trainer almost everyday from approx. 630 to 8ish am. if she was staying with her why would they be texting? odd


Where did you find the receipt? Do not say anything to her at all. If she notices its missing play dumb. But dont worry she wont say a word. What would she say? Lol

Dont let your emotions or fears run wild. People in this mindset dont do anything rationally. Focus on facts. She stayed in a hotel. We dont know anything yet beyond that. 

Did she pay for the hotel? From your joint bank account?

keep gathering intel. Dont lose your cool or hit the alarm bell early. Stay calm

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

Chuck71 said:


> which of Thorburn's threads have this in it?
> 
> hate to ask but he has quite a few blogs


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67156-i-am-back-gets-worse.html


----------



## bandit.45

Stay calm Stallion. Get on the net and look up the hotel. Find out what kind of room it was, where it is located, and if it is the kind of hotel she would normally not stay at. 

The others are right, this is indeed suspicious, but at this time you do not have enough evidence to confront her. Continue on with the VAR. In her case I would get two: one for the car and one for the room she is sleeping in. 

Get the keylogger put on her computer and the tracking program on her Iphone. 

Stay sweet and calm and don't do anything to make her suspicious that you are on to her. Work methodically and THINK before you act.


----------



## stallion1

well, I had some work to do this morning so I went and got that done. I was about having a heart attack since 5 this morning. worrying about the VAR. Got back around noon today. was leaving to go to my sisters so I could get away and calm down. turned around went back to the barn, made sure the coast was clear. Check to make sure var didn't move. It was safe. I felt a lot better! Looking forward to checking it. not sure how long I should wait. a couple, few, or more days?

she is keeping her computer in her car right now....I think. it not in her room. she will leave it eventually and I can work on the key logger.

other than that not much communication today. keep you posted.


----------



## happyman64

Stallion

Let the var go a few days.

And the hotel bill just goes to show you that she is lying to you.

Ask her about her trip but do not make her suspicious.

Stay calm, cool and do not let her push your buttons.

HM


----------



## Ceegee

stallion1 said:


> well, I had some work to do this morning so I went and got that done. I was about having a heart attack since 5 this morning. worrying about the VAR. Got back around noon today. was leaving to go to my sisters so I could get away and calm down. turned around went back to the barn, made sure the coast was clear. Check to make sure var didn't move. It was safe. I felt a lot better! Looking forward to checking it. not sure how long I should wait. a couple, few, or more days?
> 
> 
> 
> she is keeping her computer in her car right now....I think. it not in her room. she will leave it eventually and I can work on the key logger.
> 
> 
> 
> other than that not much communication today. keep you posted.



You have got to stop worrying about what she might think...about what she might find out. 

Masculine mettle. 

It's the most important part of your recovery. 

You do what you have to do to take care of you and your interests.


----------



## stallion1

yes I have to stop worrying about what she thinks and focus on me. Its not easy changing how ive done things for so long but its getting deeper into my head that this is what I need to do.....working at it.

I got home last night around 7. She had to go bring her niece home. Didn't hear anything from her after that. texted her this morning.....where are you..........she replied......at a _____ house.

I said we can set up our counseling this week. I can go these times, she replied ok this day works. I am looking at apartments tomorrow.

That was it. I didn't reply back. I'll let her go without a fight.

After the texts I felt angry, sad, and the sense to go see a lawyer.

I feel she is willing to see a mc so she can say she went. I don't think she will make the effort to file for d because she doesn't want to take the responsibility for doing so. However, if we go through the counseling and she is talking to a lawyer and moving out...... I will be ready for whatever. I need to protect my interests. I don't want to play this game of being strung along while she does whatever she wants. I will have things prepared for myself.

I am seeing a lawyer this week.

Me filing may be what she wants. At this point, considering myself and what is best for me......that's how things may play out but I can tell you it will be for me.

we will see what the mc has to say. I talked to her on the phone. She knows the basics of the situation. She was very upfront about figuring out if mc is even worth the effort for us. I liked her honesty. She would like both of us to come in. Then each of us separate. After that both of us back in and evaluate if there is only one person willing make it work or both of us.

havnt checked the var yet but I think tomorrow afternoon may be a good day to do so.


----------



## happyman64

Your MC is correct.

It takes two people to fix a marriage.

You can not do it alone.

Let the MC evaluate your wife to see if she really wants to fix things or not.

Check the var tomorrow.

And no matter what you hear on the var do not react or confront.

Just take it all in and come back here.

HM


----------



## cbnero

happyman64 said:


> Your MC is correct.
> 
> It takes two people to fix a marriage.
> 
> You can not do it alone.
> 
> Let the MC evaluate your wife to see if she really wants to fix things or not.
> 
> Check the var tomorrow.
> 
> And no matter what you hear on the var do not react or confront.
> 
> Just take it all in and come back here.
> 
> HM


if u need to get out tonight u can stop over. Bring the 2 usual requirements tho. I have the kids so it would have to be after 8 pm

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## cbnero

Also if you want I will listen to the VAR for you.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Also if you want I will listen to the VAR for you.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Now, THIS is a friend.


----------



## Kevinb

Mate, I hope there is nothing on that VAR


----------



## cbnero

Me too. Part of me wishes I had found TAM early. Before I tossed my dignity out the window. But then I know I would have had a VAR in her car. And the XW called OM first thing every morning after I kissed her goodbye and first thing when she left work to pick up our kids in the afternoon. And about 15 other calls during the day. I never checked text msgs but I can imagine.

Now that its done I wish I had the VAR but a bigger part of me is glad I never heard what else she was saying. Either about me or about OM.

Given the choice I would rather someone else take it, listen to it, and tell me it's either clear or to get the hell out asap. And then hold onto it in case it was ever needed.

Those guys that heard that stuff... I dont want that in my memory bank for life.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Kevinb

Yeah, I agree with you...it would be devastating...lets hope theres nothing on it


----------



## Conrad

Kevinb said:


> Yeah, I agree with you...it would be devastating...lets hope theres nothing on it


Hope for the best - prepare for the worst.

I applaud stallion for having the courage to face the truth.


----------



## stallion1

update,

she get home this afternoon. asks if I set the appointment up for mc yet. I said no its sunday. ill do it tomorrow. She gets in a sorry for herself mood. says it seems like you don't want to go to counseling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I said, I have asked you to go for a long time. you kept saying no. im setting up the appointment. do you truly believe its me who doesn't want to go? Plus im not the one who decided to move out. She says, well it seems like you don't care if I move out or not. I said, I disagree with the thought of someone moving out to make things work. but you have to do what you have to do and im not going to force my opinion on you.

after a few minutes I go back upstairs. she is in my bathroom. im in the doorway to the bedroom. (she moved into the other room and left a mess in my room so I cleaned the ship out of it and placed some of her clothes in her room) so she says, looks like you moved me out of my bedroom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I say, you moved out a month ago. I just cleaned up so I wouldn't have to live in a mess. 

her.......maybe we are fine.. lets just go back to normal... me... we need help,, im not going to let it go anymore, we need professional help to deal with the issues..... her....why don't you come over hear and give me a hug.:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

me.. you know what, if you really want to hug me, im right here (12 ft away) her ....your not going to come hear and give me a hug?............me .... you've pushed me away so many times when ive tried to hug you and I think if you really want a hug you should just do it,, don't ask me.... her...................................................................................................................................................................................your a fing ahole, your always so mean and controlling.....................me ....I just wanted you to know how I was feeling, I think this is why we need professional help! 

so no hug tonight!

Then the text came.. her......"you make me feel so sad!!! but every incident like this makes me feel more confident about the direction we are heading,"

a few minutes after that I was in the kitchen, she was wondering if I sent her car payment in!!!!!!!!!! and then asked for a hug while she was on the phone paying a bill.

was I wrong to look at her while she was on the phone, paying a bill, and asking for a hug, to walk away.

really, now you feel like I should give you a hug.? f that.

var comes into play tomorrow. don't care what it says. im ready for whatever.

at this point I don't think I need a var to decide what I need.


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> update,
> 
> she get home this afternoon. asks if I set the appointment up for mc yet. I said no its sunday. ill do it tomorrow. She gets in a sorry for herself mood. says it seems like you don't want to go to counseling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"I'm sorry you feel that way"

(Stop explaining... stop taking the bait.... stop getting excited... all counterproductive)


----------



## cbnero

Try to get to 50k. You still dont have all the facts here so do your best to stay calm. 180 180 180.

Check the VAR. See what you are dealing with. False Rs happen. I went thru one, wife said lets just be normal and we dont need counseling. 8 months later we are divorced.

Just watch her actions. Dont let your emotions get the better of you. Tough to do right now, we all know.

She doesnt know up from down right now. You need to keep control of the situation and your own emotions. Prepare for her to get really bad and nasty now. Extreme emotions.

This is where it is important for you to not lose it. Stay calm. Do not get angry or cold.

"I am sorry you feel that way."

"Thank you for sharing that with me. I appreciate your honesty."

She wants you to engage her. She needs the drama to justify her own bullsh!t. Dont give in to her.  Avoid the emotional triggers as much as possible.

If you feel like losing it then say "thanks for sharing that. Definitely a lot to think about." And walk away. Get out of the house if you need to. She will flip a lid if you do this so be ready. She wants, she needs, you to argue. Be ready and stay thirsty my friend.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Try to get to 50k. You still dont have all the facts here so do your best to stay calm. 180 180 180.
> 
> Check the VAR. See what you are dealing with. False Rs happen. I went thru one, wife said lets just be normal and we dont need counseling. 8 months later we are divorced.
> 
> Just watch her actions. Dont let your emotions get the better of you. Tough to do right now, we all know.
> 
> She doesnt know up from down right now. You need to keep control of the situation and your own emotions. Prepare for her to get really bad and nasty now. Extreme emotions.
> 
> This is where it is important for you to not lose it. Stay calm. Do not get angry or cold.
> 
> "I am sorry you feel that way."
> 
> "Thank you for sharing that with me. I appreciate your honesty."
> 
> She wants you to engage her. She needs the drama to justify her own bullsh!t. Dont give in to her. Avoid the emotional triggers as much as possible.
> 
> If you feel like losing it then say "thanks for sharing that. Definitely a lot to think about." And walk away. Get out of the house if you need to. She will flip a lid if you do this so be ready. She wants, she needs, you to argue. Be ready and stay thirsty my friend.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


When she flips, "I don't like where this conversation is heading"

If she persists, "Are you done?"


----------



## stallion1

cbnero said:


> Try to get to 50k. You still dont have all the facts here so do your best to stay calm. 180 180 180.
> 
> Check the VAR. See what you are dealing with. False Rs happen. I went thru one, wife said lets just be normal and we dont need counseling. 8 months later we are divorced.
> 
> Just watch her actions. Dont let your emotions get the better of you. Tough to do right now, we all know.
> 
> She doesnt know up from down right now. You need to keep control of the situation and your own emotions. Prepare for her to get really bad and nasty now. Extreme emotions.
> 
> This is where it is important for you to not lose it. Stay calm. Do not get angry or cold.
> 
> "I am sorry you feel that way."
> 
> "Thank you for sharing that with me. I appreciate your honesty."
> 
> She wants you to engage her. She needs the drama to justify her own bullsh!t. Dont give in to her. Avoid the emotional triggers as much as possible.
> 
> If you feel like losing it then say "thanks for sharing that. Definitely a lot to think about." And walk away. Get out of the house if you need to. She will flip a lid if you do this so be ready. She wants, she needs, you to argue. Be ready and stay thirsty my friend.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


cb, Conrad, thanks for the insight. I am trying to stay calm and be pleasant. I did have a few moments today when I wanted to blow up but I did refrain. 

stop explaining is hard for me but the more I can realize im doing it, I am more able to do so.

I feel holding back from the "hug" would keep things from a false r. after all of her actions I didn't feel the "hug" was anything but a false R. so I tried to squash it. guess I didn't need to explain? to her why I wouldn't go to her and give her the hug and she could come to me if she really wanted a "hug"........


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion you know her manipulation when you see it. All that hugging crap. 

When she tries to lure you into pointless engagement, that is when you need to say "This is pointless and is not getting us anywhere. When you are ready to really sit down and talk like mature adults I will be here." And with that you should have turned around, walked out the door, went out to the barn and pissed in a stall.

Stop engaging her.


----------



## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> Stallion you know her manipulation when you see it. All that hugging crap.
> 
> When she tries to lure you into pointless engagement, that is when you need to say "This is pointless and is not getting us anywhere. When you are ready to really sit down and talk like mature adults I will be here." And with that you should have turned around, walked out the door, went out to the barn and pissed in a stall.
> Stop engaging her.


:iagree:


----------



## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> Stallion you know her manipulation when you see it. All that hugging crap.
> 
> When she tries to lure you into pointless engagement, that is when you need to say "This is pointless and is not getting us anywhere. When you are ready to really sit down and talk like mature adults I will be here." And with that you should have turned around, walked out the door, went out to the barn and pissed in a stall.
> 
> Stop engaging her.


*Yeah, but I'm sure having some rather serious doubts that this "little darling" has ever mucked a horse stall at anytime in her life. 
*
*If I knew for sure that she would actually clean it, I'd literally piss it full, take a few dumps in there, kick the straw and shavings over it, and then non-chalantly hang around to watch her physically participate in the cleaning process!*


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> cb, Conrad, thanks for the insight. I am trying to stay calm and be pleasant. I did have a few moments today when I wanted to blow up but I did refrain.
> 
> stop explaining is hard for me but the more I can realize im doing it, I am more able to do so.
> 
> I feel holding back from the "hug" would keep things from a false r. after all of her actions I didn't feel the "hug" was anything but a false R. so I tried to squash it. guess I didn't need to explain? to her why I wouldn't go to her and give her the hug and she could come to me if she really wanted a "hug"........


The urge to explain is codependence.

You are seeking approval from an irrational human being.

Do you really think she's going to approve of you or your thoughts?

What if she does? That places your personal value BENEATH hers.

Think about it.

We only explain to our superiors.


----------



## spun

Having been steamrolled out of my marriage by a cheater pos wife, I will add my two cents.

Your wife fits the profile of a cheating cake eater to a T.

She wants you to blow your stack so that you can holding her steaming bag of sh!t.

Then, of course, you left her no choice but to bang posOM.

You are not interested in being cast for a role in her Lifetime movie.

Disengage. And be prepared for her to escalate when she finds out that your "buttons" are broken.


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion who do you and your wife do business with in that city where she just got back from and stayed in the hotel? Is there a a guy at that company who she may have gotten friendly with? 

I do think she is cheating. All the turning-on-a-dime emotionalism, hot/cold behavior is what separates a wayward from a walk-away. Please be careful when you listen to that VAR.


----------



## Ceegee

Forget the fact that the majority of posters here are because of infidelity - some find out before coming here others find out later. It's just simply playing the odds for those of us giving the advice. 

The fact is, you have to find out regardless. You cannot possibly navigate this process, with any modicum of success, without knowing what you're up against. 

Until you know, you're just pissing in the wind. 

Personally, I too believe she is cheating. 

I also believe in exposure regardless of whether or not you want to reconcile. 

Call me an ass.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Forget the fact that the majority of posters here are because of infidelity - some find out before coming here others find out later. It's just simply playing the odds for those of us giving the advice.
> 
> The fact is, you have to find out regardless. You cannot possibly navigate this process, with any modicum of success, without knowing what you're up against.
> 
> Until you know, you're just pissing in the wind.
> 
> Personally, I too believe she is cheating.
> 
> I also believe in exposure regardless of whether or not you want to reconcile.
> 
> Call me an ass.


You're an ass.

I'm an ass.

We're in good company.

http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf


----------



## sandc

That whole "you're so controlling..." line she gave you. Sounds like cheaterspraken to me.

Was it today that you were going to listen to the VAR?


----------



## stallion1

real quick...shes in my room and wont leave. lots to tell. ill have to write about it later. she will soon come downstairs to confront me again.

var........no info on affair. not even remotely. lots of talk about how bad I am and I never do anything for the business etc. and how she wants a divorce. 

long story but has confronted me several times....ive not responded. she cornered me in the room, I left, she followed me downstairs, I went up to the room tried to lock the door, she barged back in told me she wants a fing d and im blah blah blah. I left to go downstairs again. she wants me to leave the house and wont leave the room now. she is off the deep end! 

fill you in soon.

she will get a D soon enough......crystal clear!


----------



## Ceegee

Women who have someone lined up (emotional affair) often don't tell even their closest friends. 

They lay the groundwork first by making you out to be a horrible person. 

Continue to investigate. 

Key logger still best bet if you can manage it.


----------



## cbnero

Kids are gone tonight and tomorrow if u need to bail to my place. That house is highly toxic for you, triggers abound. If it gets bad shoot me a text and come on over.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## arbitrator

stallion1 said:


> real quick...shes in my room and wont leave. lots to tell. ill have to write about it later. she will soon come downstairs to confront me again.
> 
> var........no info on affair. not even remotely. lots of talk about how bad I am and I never do anything for the business etc. and how she wants a divorce.
> 
> long story but has confronted me several times....ive not responded. she cornered me in the room, I left, she followed me downstairs, I went up to the room tried to lock the door, she barged back in told me she wants a fing d and im blah blah blah. I left to go downstairs again. she wants me to leave the house and wont leave the room now. she is off the deep end!
> 
> fill you in soon.
> 
> she will get a D soon enough......crystal clear!


*Just make damn good and sure that you file first! There are some rather nice advantages in the court room being the complainant!*


----------



## Kevinb

stallion1 said:


> real quick...shes in my room and wont leave. lots to tell. ill have to write about it later. she will soon come downstairs to confront me again.
> 
> var........no info on affair. not even remotely. lots of talk about how bad I am and I never do anything for the business etc. and how she wants a divorce.
> 
> long story but has confronted me several times....ive not responded. she cornered me in the room, I left, she followed me downstairs, I went up to the room tried to lock the door, she barged back in told me she wants a fing d and im blah blah blah. I left to go downstairs again. she wants me to leave the house and wont leave the room now. she is off the deep end!
> 
> fill you in soon.
> 
> she will get a D soon enough......crystal clear!


Thats good news that there was nothin on the recording device


----------



## stallion1

the light bulb has gone bright!

listened to the var today like I sad. lots of bad mouthing. etc. no info on cheating.

she looked at apartments. called me to tell me she needs our taxes done asap so she can try and get a lower rate on an artist type apt or something. apparently if she makes less than x xx she gets it for cheaper. I said I filed an extension and they wont be done for a while. she flips out and says get my crap together and get them done. then she says fine ill get my own done.. ok...why cant you just get it done by Thursday! (I have two businesses and my own crap to deal with and always file for extensions, why give money away until you absolutely have to! right!) So I said I wasn't in a hurry but go ahead and do your own. she will make to much money to do what she is saying and she just has no idea. Then I told her the MC was 10am wed and she had a fit because she wanted it at 8 am. I said the mc had the 10am open and I would be there. I said I hope you can make it. her response was .......whatever.....

we have a business meeting Friday. her name is written on the agenda to provide certain info. she wanted me to prepare this for her tonight (which I always do because she is to busy) I say no, it looks like on the agenda that is your responsibility and I will take care of what is my responsibility. She did not like that!

Just before this last discussion I had spent the afternoon listening to the var, talking to a lawyer, then dinner at my sisters, all the time realizing that this is over and im good with my decision. I know what I have to do and its in progress. lawyer said talk to your investor asap. then we will take the steps necessary to move forward.

so after this long day of stuff.......im in my room and she comes in and wants to talk. shes being nice. I don't really respond. she gets grumpy! says if you cant talk to me we don't need counseling just a divorce. ok. then it was about me not wanting to work it out im not doing this im not acting like I should im blah blah blah. I said we can talk wed morning I don't want to argue. my answers to her qs were im sorry you feel that way. ok. etc. she just got more pissed, more yelling at me, telling me I had to get the f out of the house and she is not moving. I just said im sorry you feel that way. I don't have to move. she kept saying she wants a fing D and we need to go do it together asap. I said you can go. Ill think about what I need to do. I think we are done talking can you please leave my room.......her......no. you need to move out and this is my room.............more crazy comes out,,and im just looking at her thinking.....I know what I need without a doubt. than when I left the room.....she followed..........I went back into my room and was shutting the door when she forced herself back in. I said can we be done with this tonight? her.......no blah blah so I went downstairs again. she stayed in the room for another half hour. then went into her room. f what a couple hours!

i would have taken off but i havnt cleared out all of my financial docs and paperwork i need to which CB told me to do a week ago! Well, ill start moving that tomorrow asap.

wow did that turn into a bad dream fast!

so, cheating or not, i will not be able to live with this person for the rest of my life. She has been TOXIC from day one. I see that now its not me, its not my job to try and make her be happy. I cant be happy while im with her. I don't need to investigate any more. i can only imagine what she will act like when i take half of her retirement! (mine has been spent on her precious horse poop factory) 

sooooooooooooo that's my day! How are all of you guys doing:smthumbup:


----------



## tom67

stallion1 said:


> the light bulb has gone bright!
> 
> listened to the var today like I sad. lots of bad mouthing. etc. no info on cheating.
> 
> she looked at apartments. called me to tell me she needs our taxes done asap so she can try and get a lower rate on an artist type apt or something. apparently if she makes less than x xx she gets it for cheaper. I said I filed an extension and they wont be done for a while. she flips out and says get my crap together and get them done. then she says fine ill get my own done.. ok...why cant you just get it done by Thursday! (I have two businesses and my own crap to deal with and always file for extensions, why give money away until you absolutely have to! right!) So I said I wasn't in a hurry but go ahead and do your own. she will make to much money to do what she is saying and she just has no idea. Then I told her the MC was 10am wed and she had a fit because she wanted it at 8 am. I said the mc had the 10am open and I would be there. I said I hope you can make it. her response was .......whatever.....
> 
> we have a business meeting Friday. her name is written on the agenda to provide certain info. she wanted me to prepare this for her tonight (which I always do because she is to busy) I say no, it looks like on the agenda that is your responsibility and I will take care of what is my responsibility. She did not like that!
> 
> Just before this last discussion I had spent the afternoon listening to the var, talking to a lawyer, then dinner at my sisters, all the time realizing that this is over and im good with my decision. I know what I have to do and its in progress. lawyer said talk to your investor asap. then we will take the steps necessary to move forward.
> 
> so after this long day of stuff.......im in my room and she comes in and wants to talk. shes being nice. I don't really respond. she gets grumpy! says if you cant talk to me we don't need counseling just a divorce. ok. then it was about me not wanting to work it out im not doing this im not acting like I should im blah blah blah. I said we can talk wed morning I don't want to argue. my answers to her qs were im sorry you feel that way. ok. etc. she just got more pissed, more yelling at me, telling me I had to get the f out of the house and she is not moving. I just said im sorry you feel that way. I don't have to move. she kept saying she wants a fing D and we need to go do it together asap. I said you can go. Ill think about what I need to do. I think we are done talking can you please leave my room.......her......no. you need to move out and this is my room.............more crazy comes out,,and im just looking at her thinking.....I know what I need without a doubt. than when I left the room.....she followed..........I went back into my room and was shutting the door when she forced herself back in. I said can we be done with this tonight? her.......no blah blah so I went downstairs again. she stayed in the room for another half hour. then went into her room. f what a couple hours!
> 
> i would have taken off but i havnt cleared out all of my financial docs and paperwork i need to which CB told me to do a week ago! Well, ill start moving that tomorrow asap.
> 
> wow did that turn into a bad dream fast!
> 
> so, cheating or not, i will not be able to live with this person for the rest of my life. She has been TOXIC from day one. I see that now its not me, its not my job to try and make her be happy. I cant be happy while im with her. I don't need to investigate any more. i can only imagine what she will act like when i take half of her retirement! (mine has been spent on her precious horse poop factory)
> 
> sooooooooooooo that's my day! How are all of you guys doing:smthumbup:


Now you carry a var on you otherwise she will make up something and get you arrested.
It has happened before.


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> Forget the fact that the majority of posters here are because of infidelity - some find out before coming here others find out later. It's just simply playing the odds for those of us giving the advice.
> 
> The fact is, you have to find out regardless. You cannot possibly navigate this process, with any modicum of success, without knowing what you're up against.
> 
> Until you know, you're just pissing in the wind.
> 
> Personally, I too believe she is cheating.
> 
> I also believe in exposure regardless of whether or not you want to reconcile.
> 
> Call me an ass.


I never knew if my X did, the walking out was enough for me

plus the dating sites 

so much stuff was left, I honestly think she planned on

coming back. Oh well....

but in many cases where the person is unsure if they even want

to work things out, the cheating is a deal breaker.


----------



## LongWalk

It will be good to learn if she is cheating, for closure. But her attitude is a deal breaker. Go to MC, at this point divorce counseling and use the service to find common ground to make easier.


----------



## Conrad

stallion,

Put the keylogger on the computer.

She could have a chat buddy on FB or whatever.

They don't tell their girlfriends about that. Only when the EA goes physical do they start talking. At that point, they have to.


----------



## cbnero

I dont think he cares anymore.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> I dont think he cares anymore.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


He needs to learn how to set personal boundaries.


----------



## cbnero

I think he heard her demonizing him on the VAR. In hindsight I am glad I never had that opportunity. I wouldnt know how to process it.

I know we are pro-marriage but how do you even advise someone to consider anything but divorce after hearing such betrayal? I hated my xw actions, but never once demonized her as a person, to myself or to anyone else. The goal from day 1 was the restoration of my marriage and family. I simply discounted her actions by saying "that isnt the real her."

If I had heard the VAR like stallion did, it would have probably broken me immediately and I would have left that day never to return. I wouldnt have been able to comprehend how my wife/best friend could suddenly hate me as if I were a mass murderer lower than dog crap on her shoe.

If he wants to honor his vows for good times and bad, does he simply ignore what she said and what she is doing? I agree with setting boundaries, but is it even worth bothering with at this point?

After all she is going to do what she wants regardless. So then should he just simply agree with her, agree D is the best option, and let her go?

After reading all these threads on TAM, my general opinion is heading towards that of once a spouse stops loving you they have already broken the marriage covenant and you may as well file D immediately. Maybe they come out of it before its final. Maybe not. Maybe you take them back, maybe not. But why bother fighting for something that already no longer exists?

I view my marriage as over the day she decided she no longer loved me. Not the day she had an A. Not Dday. Not the day the divorce was final. It was over long before and she is the only one who knew it. She gave up. My fault I guess I wasnt meeting her needs and not listening to her pleas for help. Her fault for not communicating them so I could. 100% her fault for cheating and leaving.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

if you take to heart everything a woman says, you're in for a 

he!!ish life. It's another version of blame shifting. If every man D 

his wife over being a complete a$$, the D rate would be 96%. He 

needs to set boundaries for the future and.... he loves her. When 

she comes around and wants to talk....the one thing he would 

regret was....."I wish I followed through on seeing if she cheated"


----------



## cbnero

Chuck71 said:


> if you take to heart everything a woman says, you're in for a
> 
> he!!ish life. It's another version of blame shifting. If every man D
> 
> his wife over being a complete a$$, the D rate would be 96%. He
> 
> needs to set boundaries for the future and.... he loves her. When
> 
> she comes around and wants to talk....the one thing he would
> 
> regret was....."I wish I followed through on seeing if she cheated"


lol well you're right about ignoring what they say.

And I agree he should find out if there is an OM. Otherwise who's to say she isn't just having a MLC that could be helped by IC.

I was looking at this from my perspective since I found out about OM but never got any details from the XW, never had opportunity to VAR, or do the 180 while she was still in the home. His situation is different then mine, regardless of how it turns it I'm envious of BS who at least have an opportunity to get in front of it vs only finding TAM after there is no hope like me.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

I never knew if mine did but when she pulled her act of leaving for

days at a time, I laid a non-negotiable and it was 110% firm. My X 

tried to play "I miss you" a couple weeks before D final. After I 

profiled her just as I would an inmate, I set forth a situation where

if she cared, she would chose "A", if she was FOS and selfish, she 

would choose "B". She chose B, game over. I ripped up my non-

negotiable left on coffee table that Monday and went out with a girl

that evening. I have odd behaviors and am fully aware I'm not easy

to live with. But stall's W, she is a piece of work. I know it's not the 

correct thing to do but, in a situation similar to this, I told the girl

who was exploding like 4th of July "do everyone a favor and go 

fvck yourself" I was smiling when I said it. I walked away, grabbed 

my keys, left.


----------



## cbnero

Awesome I like it. Wish i had done the same out of the gate. I have a feeling stallion is about to stand up with some serious resolve.

I dont know who posted it on here but I repeated it to stallion - you are playing a game you didnt know you were in and without even knowing the rules. I have been on for 5 months and it still amazes me these people all say and do the same sh!t, same behaviors, same responses. Unreal.

I agree with everyone else her behavior seems to fit the cheater mold. Especially after her ping ponging the past 2 days trying to trigger our poor boy. We all knew that was coming.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

there are roughly about five scripts

I never could put up with Mickey Mouse and 'chase me' games

I think she expects to blame shift her A on stall

and he will fall into her cake-eating

hopefully by his boundaries, she will be in for a rude 

awakening


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Awesome I like it. Wish i had done the same out of the gate. I have a feeling stallion is about to stand up with some serious resolve.
> 
> I dont know who posted it on here but I repeated it to stallion - you are playing a game you didnt know you were in and without even knowing the rules. I have been on for 5 months and it still amazes me these people all say and do the same sh!t, same behaviors, same responses. Unreal.
> 
> I agree with everyone else her behavior seems to fit the cheater mold. Especially after her ping ponging the past 2 days trying to trigger our poor boy. We all knew that was coming.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


You have no choice but to play if the other side engages.

If you are going to play, play to win.


----------



## cbnero

Haha so true. I may have been on the bench like a scrub most of the game, but in the closing minutes my lawyer and I ran on hell of a pick and roll to win the championship. In that aspect I am a hero to men everywhere, she got nothing.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## tom67

cbnero said:


> Haha so true. I may have been on the bench like a scrub most of the game, but in the closing minutes my lawyer and I ran on hell of a pick and roll to win the championship. In that aspect I am a hero to men everywhere, she got nothing.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Here is true inspiration...

Warning some naughty words
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0CDtEz_Bo


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> if you take to heart everything a woman says, you're in for a
> 
> 
> 
> he!!ish life. It's another version of blame shifting. If every man D
> 
> 
> 
> his wife over being a complete a$$, the D rate would be 96%. He
> 
> 
> 
> needs to set boundaries for the future and.... he loves her. When
> 
> 
> 
> she comes around and wants to talk....the one thing he would
> 
> 
> 
> regret was....."I wish I followed through on seeing if she cheated"



I'll go one step further, Chuck. Don't believe ANYTHING a woman says while going through sep/D. Especially when they're angry and combative like this one. 

It's all emotions and no logic. 

Precisely why this one is most likely having an affair. 

The intensity with which they rewrite history is directly proportional to their guilt.


----------



## LongWalk

Women (and men, too sometimes) will say the damndest shxt to hurt someone, but later on they will be sorry.

Some hurtful statements can be destructive. But when they are shxt tests you have to ignore them.

No doubt is a woman says some awful stuff and the guy doesn't react but shows in a masculine dignified way that they still love her, that may trigger a really affectionate reaction: "I said such unfair things and he still loves me, steady as she goes (the ship weathering the sea)".


----------



## stallion1

tom67 said:


> Here is true inspiration...
> 
> Warning some naughty words
> Lee Elia Cubs Rant - YouTube


:smthumbup: fing 15%!

. I think the 180 tossed her head in circles. she did ask me last night who I was talking to and who was coaching me to act like I am! She keeps pushing harder and harder for a fight. She wants me to tell her how much I don't want a divorce. Then she wants to shxt on my face! She loves it when the guy chases her and she gets to say no im done. Well, im not chasing, not arguing, doing my own thing and its not going accordingly to her plan. and she hates me for that. in ten minutes last night she went from wanting to talk to "I cant even stand to look at you" I was like ok im sorry you feel that way if you please exit my room you wont have to look anymore. The nasty things she said about me and she just wants a divorce etc. (to a lot of people) that I heard on the VAR, made me realize for sure where she was at and what a mean person she can be. It also made me realize that I knew deep down she has been a negative, selfish person for as long as I can remember and I cant live with it. All of her tactics in that last two days would have worked on me a month ago. I know what I want to do. Im not really even mad she said the things she did because I expected it and feel sorry for her that she is going through life like that. I cant change her.... but I can change me and where im headed. It might be hard but at least im moving in the direction I want to for once.

I have a meeting with the investor tomorrow afternoon. Nervous!!!!!!!!!!! Hes been a good friend/father like figure to me for a long time. Hes got a lot tied up with us right now so I know he will be frustrated, I know he will say I told you so, and I know he Is rational and will advise accordingly. Still nervous as hell. 

Got my financial stuff out of the house this morning, not that she would know what to do with any of it, but its in a safe place. 

I don't have access to her computer as of yet. She is keeping it with her. weird right, hiding something? but if there is a chance ill do the keylogger since I can check from any computer. My sisters husband works for the F_ I shouldn't say I guess but I told him about the var. He shook his head, laughed a little and asked if I had a warrant. This is old school stuff for those guys! 

no crazy yet today:smthumbup:


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> :smthumbup: fing 15%!
> 
> . I think the 180 tossed her head in circles. she did ask me last night who I was talking to and who was coaching me to act like I am! She keeps pushing harder and harder for a fight. She wants me to tell her how much I don't want a divorce. Then she wants to shxt on my face! She loves it when the guy chases her and she gets to say no im done. Well, im not chasing, not arguing, doing my own thing and its not going accordingly to her plan. and she hates me for that. in ten minutes last night she went from wanting to talk to "I cant even stand to look at you" I was like ok im sorry you feel that way if you please exit my room you wont have to look anymore. The nasty things she said about me and she just wants a divorce etc. (to a lot of people) that I heard on the VAR, made me realize for sure where she was at and what a mean person she can be. It also made me realize that I knew deep down she has been a negative, selfish person for as long as I can remember and I cant live with it. All of her tactics in that last two days would have worked on me a month ago. I know what I want to do. Im not really even mad she said the things she did because I expected it and feel sorry for her that she is going through life like that. I cant change her.... but I can change me and where im headed. It might be hard but at least im moving in the direction I want to for once.
> 
> I have a meeting with the investor tomorrow afternoon. Nervous!!!!!!!!!!! Hes been a good friend/father like figure to me for a long time. Hes got a lot tied up with us right now so I know he will be frustrated, I know he will say I told you so, and I know he Is rational and will advise accordingly. Still nervous as hell.
> 
> Got my financial stuff out of the house this morning, not that she would know what to do with any of it, but its in a safe place.
> 
> I don't have access to her computer as of yet. She is keeping it with her. weird right, hiding something? but if there is a chance ill do the keylogger since I can check from any computer. My sisters husband works for the F_ I shouldn't say I guess but I told him about the var. He shook his head, laughed a little and asked if I had a warrant. This is old school stuff for those guys!
> 
> no crazy yet today:smthumbup:


This is likely a Facebook chat EA.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> This is likely a Facebook chat EA.



Either that or words with friends.


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> I'll go one step further, Chuck. Don't believe ANYTHING a woman says .


another "popism" I was told at a young age

"son...a lot of them talk to just hear their a$$ roar"


----------



## cbnero

Just to play devils advocate for a moment...

I know you value your marriage vows. I know you love your wife and feel extremely hurt and betrayed.

yes good idea to get the ball rolling with the investor and attorney. Definitely need to protect yourself and put up serious boundaries.

But we dont have all the facts yet. We know she had a traumatic childhood. You love her and agreed to stick by her good and bad. And at the end of the day you need to live with your choices. Maybe keep the door open to do what she cannot, love unconditionally. 

No judgement at all. Just pointing out that we dont have all the facts and trying to offer a 2nd viewpoint from a 3rd party.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Kevinb

cbnero said:


> Just to play devils advocate for a moment...
> 
> I know you value your marriage vows. I know you love your wife and feel extremely hurt and betrayed.
> 
> yes good idea to get the ball rolling with the investor and attorney. Definitely need to protect yourself and put up serious boundaries.
> 
> But we dont have all the facts yet. We know she had a traumatic childhood. You love her and agreed to stick by her good and bad. And at the end of the day you need to live with your choices. Maybe keep the door open to do what she cannot, love unconditionally.
> 
> No judgement at all. Just pointing out that we dont have all the facts and trying to offer a 2nd viewpoint from a 3rd party.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Agree fully. You make her sound like a total ahole and if that is the case then fair enough...BUT the way you describe her in your posts she sounds to me like someone screaming out for some help. 
I dont know..and you obviopusly know her better than me...but maybe take a step back and look at it from another perspective


----------



## cbnero

The ability to see all but think and act freely is truly 50k.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

CB in your own words, how is stall's gal in comparison to your Iranian Nightmare?


----------



## cbnero

There are definitely a lot of similarities with the rewriting of the marriage history, blame shifting. 
But the Ayatollah went way beyond in gutting me. She frequently made lists in a notebook detailing every bad thing I ever did since 2001. Told me she was never attracted to me. When I asked to see her phone records for transparency she accused me of being controlling and emotional abuse. Then had her mom call me and tell me to get on medication. That happened a few times. Then she started seeing an abuse victim counselor for 5 weeks. Only after she left did I find out the truth about the lies that kept me up for a year straight. OM, hidden bank accounts, etc...

The gaslighting was so bad I was truthfully on the verge of suicide. She has never shown any remorse. And that's okay. Wish I had been on TAM earlier. 

But yes there are definitely similarities. If stallion followed my footsteps and just rolled over I think she would likely destroy him too. Having lived with that type of person, I don't doubt his account of how she is acting at all. She definitely isn't/wasnt that way all the time or he would not of fallen in love with her. Hard to find that person in her now though.

50k is the key. Get the Eagle eyes and be self aware. I think he'll have answers soon enough.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

so she is out with a friend for dinner tonight. left at 5. still not home and im assuming not coming home. I have the respect to tell her if im not going to be home and where I am. She doesn't respect me enough to even tell me shes not coming home.

we both made a vow. yes good times and bad. Im here. shes not. we both know about counseling tomorrow so well see if she shows up.

I was mr nice guy. Thought I could show her a better life. Live my life trying to make her happy. Deep down she is a good person........deep deeeep deeeeeep down. I hasn't worked. is it breaking her vow when she doesn't respect me and my feelings?

She has been forced into counseling by her mom since she was young because her mother saw the issues then. I think she is scared of counseling. I think she is scared of facing her reality. She has blamed me for everything since day one and I took it. Thinking I can make her be a better person on the inside. Maybe in some way, somewhere down the road, I may have played a part in her becoming happy for herself, that she will realize.

at this point, I cant do it anymore. she may be screaming for help but so did the boy who cried wolf! if you just want some attention then should I continue?

If she shows up at counseling I will be happy that she was even willing to go. However, the change that needs to be made is so significant. I would need her to do a 180. I don't want to live my life being with someone so negative. the things she says about me I would never say about her. 

at the end of the day she is supposed to be the person who supports me and has my back absolutely. and I hers. but she hasn't had my back for sooooooooooo long. no respect, no honesty, no consideration for me. Im done with that. so as I usually agree with playing the devils advocate.....not in this case.

I will not compromise my life anymore for someone who will not do the same for me.


----------



## Kevinb

fair enough


----------



## Chuck71

cbnero;7853362 She frequently made lists in a notebook detailing every bad thing I ever did since 2001.
[i said:


> Posted via *Topify* on Android[/i]


I guess you wrote $15,000 checks to strangers up until 2000


----------



## LongWalk

Keep using the VAR.


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> so she is out with a friend for dinner tonight. left at 5. still not home and im assuming not coming home. I have the respect to tell her if im not going to be home and where I am. She doesn't respect me enough to even tell me shes not coming home.
> 
> we both made a vow. yes good times and bad. Im here. shes not. we both know about counseling tomorrow so well see if she shows up.
> 
> I was mr nice guy. Thought I could show her a better life. Live my life trying to make her happy. Deep down she is a good person........deep deeeep deeeeeep down. I hasn't worked. is it breaking her vow when she doesn't respect me and my feelings?
> 
> She has been forced into counseling by her mom since she was young because her mother saw the issues then. I think she is scared of counseling. I think she is scared of facing her reality. She has blamed me for everything since day one and I took it. Thinking I can make her be a better person on the inside. Maybe in some way, somewhere down the road, I may have played a part in her becoming happy for herself, that she will realize.
> 
> at this point, I cant do it anymore. she may be screaming for help but so did the boy who cried wolf! if you just want some attention then should I continue?
> 
> If she shows up at counseling I will be happy that she was even willing to go. However, the change that needs to be made is so significant. I would need her to do a 180. I don't want to live my life being with someone so negative. the things she says about me I would never say about her.
> 
> at the end of the day she is supposed to be the person who supports me and has my back absolutely. and I hers. but she hasn't had my back for sooooooooooo long. no respect, no honesty, no consideration for me. Im done with that. so as I usually agree with playing the devils advocate.....not in this case.
> 
> I will not compromise my life anymore for someone who will not do the same for me.


You thought if you were good to her, she'd love you.

In other words, your kindnesses would earn her love.

I put this is RFS's thread also, but it equally applies here

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/74433-one-transaction-time.html


----------



## Conrad

My wife used to tell me she had a bad memory.

But, she did keep similar records of my wrongs, so she wouldn't forget a thing.

Changing that dynamic was the best thing I ever did for me - and consequently, us.


----------



## cbnero

Yeah after about the 2nd list reading I was not really a fan of them. She cheated. She lied. I got the list of my faults instead of an apology. For 10 months... 

I wear it now as a badge of honor. I tried to nice my way out for almost a year. Foolishly? Yep. Did I learn a lot? Yep.

But I sort of feel like I went through 8 years of college to learn something I could have learned online at the 2 week course at TAM University. I may have overpaid for my education. Lol

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Yeah after about the 2nd list reading I was not really a fan of them. She cheated. She lied. I got the list of my faults instead of an apology. For 10 months...
> 
> I wear it now as a badge of honor. I tried to nice my way out for almost a year. Foolishly? Yep. Did I learn a lot? Yep.
> 
> But I sort of feel like I went through 8 years of college to learn something I could have learned online at the 2 week course at TAM University. I may have overpaid for my education. Lol
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


The key to happiness is to overcome the futility of human nature.


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion when you have some time, please read through the following thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html

Morituri was one of the wisest sages on TAM, and this thread should inspire you to begin the process of completely detaching from your wife. 

You don't know yet whether she is having an affair or is just wanting out. One thing is for certain: for whatever reason she justifies in that bag of cats she calls a brain, she is blaming all of her problems on you. Why would you wish to remain married to someone like this?

Is she calling out for help? Maybe. But the truth is YOU cannot help her. She either helps herself or she continues this pattern of behavior the rest of her life. You need to get on with yours.


----------



## Chuck71

Mr. Fixer will never have the glow of new posom, when she is in fog


----------



## bandit.45

*From Morituri:*

"Here are some more words of wisdom from another sage (definitely not me):"

"Do not use these strategies as a manipulative tool to change what your spouse is doing. He/she will pick up on your motive and see through it. He/she will easily manipulate you back to where he/she wants you (wherever that was to make you predictable and controllable.)

You engage in these exercises and strategies because you want to for you. You know that this is the best way to live and at this point, be in relationship with your spouse. This is the best way for you to survive and retain integrity.

Here’s the kicker. A by-product of these efforts is usually dramatic changes on the part of your spouse. Don’t be surprised if he/she moves closer. Don’t be surprised if he/she does a double-take. Don’t be surprised if he/she decides to “work on the marriage.” But, don’t expect it!

1) *Act Happy*. Be as cheerful as possible. Be positive. Put on this behavior when you have contact with your spouse. Prepare yourself to act this way. Practice if need be. Be an actor, actress if need be. Fake it, if you must. Fake it til you truly do get to the point where you experience your life as positive. (It really is, you know!)

2) *Get a life*. Rekindle old hobbies or interests that you have discarded but still interest you. Try out new hobbies or interests. Think about what you really liked doing when you were 6 years old. Start doing that. (One coaching client “gave up dancing,” which was a passion, for her family and husband. Once she discovered his affair, she took it up again. She loved it. It was therapeutic. But, boy did he have a problem with it!).

3) *Focus on 4 key words*. Every day, every hour and every minute if need be, plaster your mind with these 4 life-saving words: I WILL MAKE IT! This becomes your mantra. Wake up with it. Put it on your mirror. Eat lunch with it. Go to sleep with it. Tell, convey in every which way to your spouse that you WILL MAKE IT. Say, “I will make it! I perfer to make it with you (if that is what you REALLY want), but if that doesn’t happen, I will make it without you. Either way, I want you to know that I will make it.” State with erect, confident body language, unblinking, direct eye contact and calm, firm, consistent tone of voice.

4) *To-the-point small talk*. Make conversations with your spouse brief and to the point. Talk only about the solutions to specific problems that need to be addressed, such a particular bills, household or children concerns. Let silence prevail if he/she wants to “hook” you into melodrama. Politely but firmly end such conversations.5) Tend to agree. Try to find the kernel of truth in what your spouse is saying and agree with it. Acknowledge it. He/she says, “I don’t love you
anymore.” You say, “It certainly seems that way. Thank you for your truthfulness.”He/she says, “I’m not sure what I want.” You say, “Yes, it must be confusing for you.” He/she says, “I’m thinking of moving out.” You say, “Do you have an idea of when you’re going to do that? Knowing would help me plan for my activities.”

6) *Expand your social relationships*, including those of the OPPOSITE SEX.Make new friends. Go to lunch. Surround yourself with interesting people who have the potential to care about you. Rekindle old friendships that have faded. With the
opposite sex? Yes! I’m not talking about a revenge affair or sleeping with someone. I’m not talking about dating for the purposes of forming a committed relationship, but to form true friendships(plural) and learning about you and how you relate, especially to those of the opposite sex.

7) *Get sexy *– in a healthy way. Get in shape. Lose weight. Run. Walk. Exercise. Eat right. Enjoy your body. Take supplements. Take extreme care of your body. Begin to feel healthy…and healthy is sexy. Focus on one of these tactics and begin now. Don’t wait."


----------



## sandc

stallion1 said:


> at this point, I cant do it anymore. she may be screaming for help but so did the boy who cried wolf! if you just want some attention then should I continue?
> .
> .
> .
> I will not compromise my life anymore for someone who will not do the same for me.


Now you just need to devise your exit strategy. There are women out there who will have your back. Time to go find one. You will be amazed.


----------



## cbnero

Nothing wrong with letting her see you begin to move on... without her! If she values her marriage then she needs to do the work of trying to repair it. At that point it would be your decision to try to R or not. Neither option will be easy but at least you are on the path of enlightenment and able to carefully consider what YOU want in your life from now on.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

sandc said:


> Now you just need to devise your exit strategy. There are women out there who will have your back. Time to go find one. You will be amazed.


He needs to find himself first.


----------



## stallion1

went to counseling. counselor said it she wouldn't consider this MC right now, more like figuring out what we want to do....

she was ok in counseling. has frustrations with some things that I can understand. was still saying she wants to move out but we had a nice conversation of why. and how I feel etc. It was nice to talk to my wife again. no arguing, bashing, etc.

afterwords......not so nice again. blame shifting etc. Ill fill you in tomorrow. I am leaving to see the investor. Staying there tonight. we have a lot to talk about.

after counseling I was like wow, that was the person I married. Then she called and started in immediately ....to bad, I don't think she really took the counseling seriously and acted how she thought she should in that setting. 

fill you in tomorrow!


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## cbnero

I'm sick of chasing my dreams. I'm just gong to ask where they're going and catch up with them later. 
-Mitch Hedberg

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## arbitrator

*Keep your head up Stallion! Better days are coming!*


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## Chuck71

Conrad said:


> He needs to find himself first.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

example-ReGroup


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> went to counseling. counselor said it she wouldn't consider this MC right now, more like figuring out what we want to do....
> 
> she was ok in counseling. has frustrations with some things that I can understand. was still saying she wants to move out but we had a nice conversation of why. and how I feel etc. It was nice to talk to my wife again. no arguing, bashing, etc.
> 
> afterwords......not so nice again. blame shifting etc. Ill fill you in tomorrow. I am leaving to see the investor. Staying there tonight. we have a lot to talk about.
> 
> after counseling I was like wow, that was the person I married. Then she called and started in immediately ....to bad, I don't think she really took the counseling seriously and acted how she thought she should in that setting.
> 
> fill you in tomorrow!


Dont go to MC anymore. You are wastuing your money. Spend that money on your lawyer to get the best divorce terms possible. 

Marriage counseling is worthless when its one sided and one partner is faking it. The only reasions she went with you today is so she can say to friends and family that she did everything she could to save the marriage, when in actuality it is only to make her look good and to make you out to be the villain. 

Her whole tack here is to make you out to be the bad guy. She has instigated a disinformation campaign against you to make sure she comes out smelling like a rose. 

Call her family and friends and let them know what she is ytrying to do. 

Your wife is nastier than a Shetland pony.


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## LongWalk

Hope you can VAR or GPS to find out if she cheating


----------



## happy as a clam

Stallion... you're very quiet today. Any news?


----------



## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> Dont go to MC anymore. You are wastuing your money. Spend that money on your lawyer to get the best divorce terms possible.
> 
> Marriage counseling is worthless when its one sided and one partner is faking it. The only reasions she went with you today is so she can say to friends and family that she did everything she could to save the marriage, when in actuality it is only to make her look good and to make you out to be the villain.
> 
> Her whole tack here is to make you out to be the bad guy. She has instigated a disinformation campaign against you to make sure she comes out smelling like a rose.
> 
> Call her family and friends and let them know what she is ytrying to do.
> 
> Your wife is nastier than a Shetland pony.


well put...

I talked to the investor last night and this morning. we had a long talk. He is also a good friend. he told me he broke two rules of business. Never get involved with married people and never do business with a friend.

long story short.

he feels bad for what is going on in my personal life.
this greatly effects the business.
he doesn't understand how the other two don't realize that if it wasn't for me and his money they would have no business. and if my wife wants to walk away from me she is walking away from the business.

he will most likely drop the hammer on the whole thing. its a growing business but at a snails pace right now. if we are done being married he would rather squash the whole deal. He will say we have not performed to what was promised. He also made it very clear myself, my wife, and the other trainer will feel the pain as well as him if he take a loss. we have all signed personal guarantees. I don't think the other two realize the possibilities!

I told him im a person who takes responsibility for my actions and will take the punches he decides to give out.

He respects me a great deal for coming to discuss this with him. I told him im not here for a shoulder to cry on and that he needed to know sooner than later seeing as how business is business and this will cause issues for the business. he said you are correct in doing so, he appreciated me being there, he said you are here, where are the other two, they don't have the guts to come to me when there is something major about to effect the business..............

Once all the business talk was over he said he hopes that we can still be friends. what he is saying is I am on the hook, he said he wouldn't crush me but I would have bruises (figuratively speaking of course) he wants me to know that this is a business matter and that I have responsibilities and he will enforce it. but he doesn't want me to see him as being mean to me and hopes I can take it as a business lesson and we continue to be friends. 

we had a business meeting Friday. he sent an email this morning.........Friday meeting canceled due to unforeseen circumstances. More to follow....

well that is to the point. I get to let the wife know soon that our investor knows and isn't happy with any of us and will let us know what he is thinking soon enough...........I cant wait to watch her face turn bright red and little beads of sweat on her brow. this is all I will say as I don't have any other information to give.

this is bitter sweet. Im glad I did the right thing by going to him. Im glad I explained that I had my own faults in the marriage as well as her. He respected that honesty as well. I am relieved he knows and it out in the open. I felt free. I don't have to worry about decisions I make or pushing hard for certain aspects of the business and have to worry about my wife being mad at me causing more stress. I never should have worried. I was was was the nice guy. That got me know where.

however, I've spent a long time getting business plans, building plans, budgets, etc. together and to find an investor to believe in us. I spent two years building an amazing facility/arena/grounds. All that time and effort to build what I thought was going to be so special, so successful, and it could vanish in the blink of an eye.

The investor told me I was young still, ive experienced things most people don't, ive learned so much (good and bad) and to take all of it and press on. be happy. find a new adventure. use all of this to your advantage in the future. :smthumbup:

I know whats coming business and personal. I still feel sad, a little angry, depressed. But the more I continue to deal with it, the more I continue to learn about myself, the more good advice I can take in......I start to see little rays of sunlight. I start laughing more today at work. Im not so angry at the wife anymore. I can almost see a new beginning.

ps. CB........thanks buddy talk to you soon

and I guess it isn't really long story short.


----------



## bandit.45

The investor respects you for being honest. That's huge.

I can't help but think that it was more your wife's dream to have this horse farm: she got you to do most of the heavy lifting on it, but once she got it in her lap and realized how much hard work was involved...well the gilding came off the lilly at that point and the fantasy evaporated in the sunlight of cold reality. 

She seems to live in a fantasy world where there is an unending river of money to fund her traveling and her precious horse shows...

Raising, breeding and training horses is hard-ass work. Feed costs, vet bills, insurance and bonding, trainers' fees, labor costs.....There is very little glamorous about it. Seems your wife wants all the glamour and none of the stall mucking. 

Don't be surprised if during the D proceedings she tries to get you to eat all the loss on the investment. She will try to find a way to make it look like you mismanaged the business, and that she did everything she could to keep it afloat. The more you describe your wife the less I like about her...which wasn't much to start with.


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## cbnero

I wouldnt discuss the business issues with her at all. Or the divorce. 

Keep your mouth sealed. Get everything ready to have her served by the attorney, so the minute you say file it is out the door. 

Let the investor break the news to her directly.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

it was her dream. I was happy to risk it all to make something better for the both of us. I was excited for the opportunity and to build the impossible. well, I got it done, just didn't work the right way I guess!

fantasy, yes. talked to the investor about it. actually he brought up her being in a fantasy world and not recognizing the money it took to get there which is not getting a justified return. (investor told me not to worry he will still be able to afford good scotch!)

the business issues I will discuss is as follows. I told the investor about our situation. He will discuss his thoughts with us when he sees fit.

ill be the one to start the d. she will not know until its right in front of her. I will continue to let her dig that hole.


----------



## cbnero

I'd still not tell her about the investor. Nothing good can come from giving her advance notice. You are way out ahead of her now. Why give up the lead for even footing?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

so after all of this, I don't know if the mc got in her head or it was the 180 or maybe she feels im moving in my own direction. she called me twice cause I wasn't home tonight. I didn't answer. she text me......where are you. I said I was out with some people...... she said, how come I didn't get an invite. 

really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I called her back half hour later said do you need something.. her......well...............................................are you coming home?........me ....I will be home at some point did you need something? her...........no. but we have a gift card for dinner at xxxxx that will expire soon but I don't know when we could go. but I guess we can figure that out later. me......ok, goodbye.

what do you guys think.. should I have not even called back? when I got home the dogs.......her dogs..... were still in the kennel. I think she was really calling to see if I would be home to let them out! Just thought of this. Maybe I should have just text her back saying might not be home tonight?????

I worry that maybe there is an issue with the barn when she calls. which is still my responsibility. but usually if its major with the barn she will text and leave voice mails etc.

think I just answered my own question but feel free to enlighten me!

still working on it.


----------



## Rev. Clonn

You are still business partners, so act like one.
Do not do favors you are not asked to do, do not clean up someone else's mess unless it will hurt your business, or personal life.

You now know she has checked out of your marriage, act accordingly. You know your own boundaries in what is appropriate, do that which you feel is right, do not explain or apologize for doing what you think is right. 
Man up.
We are all proud of how you are handling yourself, you can do it. :smthumbup:
There is light at the end of the tunnel, and no its not an oncoming train. But you will have to work to get there.
Please don't be offended when I say I am praying for you.


----------



## helolover

You're mysterious now. She was being chased, now not. This is bothering her very much.

My recommendation is you keep on keeping on. Do what you're doing. Text is a good thing. If something is wrong with the business, she will blow up your phone. 

Make sure you're doing the 180 for you and not to have her chase you. Keep detaching from her and keep up at 50k. 

From what I've read, you're doing the right things and doing good. Stay strong, bro.


----------



## stallion1

rev, good advice, im definitely not offended, I appreciate it. Thank you.

helolover, im doing the 180 for me. I like it. its sometimes confusing still when I see the reaction to the 180 but I keep telling myself she Is just reacting to it and not from her heart. I can see this when she goes back and forth with being nice and then back to nasty.

50k.......well, Im not sure im at 50k yet but getting there. Conrad....what do you think!

keep on keepin on is right.........lifes a garden....dig it!
(joe dirte):smthumbup:


----------



## cbnero

A big part of the 180 is No Contact. You can guess her motives until your brain is scrambled, and still not have reasons or answers. You cannot guess what's going on in the mind of a crazy person. 

The fact is unless she says she wants to R and her actions follow suit, she doesnt want to R. And even if she says that then there is a ton of work to be done and your boundaries become even more important. 

You are doing great. Stay the course. Hard 180. Read it every morning. Don't slip into the guessing game. Maybe start IC for you as an additional resource for coping with everything.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk

You have been the means to realize her business dream. The fact that you can cash out is of course a shock to her even if she has not been loyal. She thought you would be loyal. Keep moving towards winding up your marriage and the business, but make the transition smooth and diplomatic.

Above all maintain self control. When the pressure rises and you remain steady she will see you in a different light. She may fall back in love with you or try to provoke you into a hateful conflict. Keep on with your current strategy.

How many animals of hers do you care for? How much time do they take?


----------



## Chuck71

seems everything isn't working out the way she wanted

reason it's best to give defiant people what they want

it rarely, if ever, turns out as they planned.


----------



## bandit.45

The 180 is working, hence her attempt to gain some feeling like she is still controlling you. 

You are doing well and it seems like you have your head on straight. 

Have you gotten anything off the VAR other than her talking smack about you? How about that hotel stay? Did you find out anything more on that?


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion everything okay?


----------



## stallion1

bandit, yes im ok. thanks. Just had a long day. more of the same from the wife. She is up and down. She wants to talk but wants me to say things about how I want to make it work and I still love her and please don't move. She wont say anything on her own. she wants to talk and then has nothing to say and I ask her, did you have something you needed to say? and when she answers with no not really I say ok well see you later. then she gets pissed and says why are we together, you cant even sit here and talk to me, you just run away. then I say once again, did you have something you wanted to talk about.........repeat. then I leave. 

I actually left the barn this afternoon to go to see my sis and nephew. she asked where I was going. I said to see my sis and nephew. She said, that is so weird you go see them every day. I said I see them a couple times a week. she says why, that is so weird. I said yes, your absolutely right, it is pretty fing weird that I go see "our" two year old godson!

that set her off and it was all my fault, lets just get a divorce blah blah blah. broken fing record!

actually had a busy but really good day.

nothing new on the var I havnt heard before, nothing on phone records still. I actually forgot about the hotel bill!

had three dogs. she gave one away to her friend who is a complete fing ****. the other two she has virtually no contact with even though she still lives in the house. Pretty sure she wont fight for them in the custody battle! I will take care of them. they are good dogs. its not their fault their mom is a ****. unlike with kids, I can tell them how insane she is and that she doesn't love them anymore. They seem to agree cause they always smile, wag their tails, and give me hugs after I let them know!:smthumbup:

so I got home a short while ago and yes they were still in their kennel. She new I was gone and thought maybe she would have taken care of them

investor set up a meeting with me on wed next week. He asked for more financial data. hes making his plans whatever they are. Im still sad about the farm that might go away. maybe better off without it but still hurts to see all your efforts smashed.


----------



## LongWalk

She doesn't have anything to say because you are not catering to her emotional needs at the expense of your self respect. She wants to attract the new more assertive you back into orbit around you, but she is no longer the sun. It's more like you are Mars and she Venus.

She has to go through the negative stuff in her mind and face it. If you are not what she wants and has convinced herself that this true, the reality make something else. She doesn't have a better, even if she cheating.

Some women probably love their husband but enjoy the sex and flattery of an F buddy.


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## PBear

I think you should do more reading on the 180... She really has no right to know where you go, given your situation. In fact, it would be good for her NOT to know.

C


----------



## stallion1

point taken pbear. I never really care if she knows but she doesn't tell me where she goes and I don't ask either. ill work on that for sure. I do read the 180 still. sometimes I don't realize certain things im doing. It gets picked up on here pretty quick and helps a lot. thanks.


----------



## Chuck71

when people act like a child, I feel they should be treated as one

she will not make the decision to D, this will be on you Stall

when you file, you will get a reaction

watch what she does, NOT what she says

when my X returned home two weeks after D was filed

she "wanted" me to fix it. I refused, I made her own it

she refused to own it, so I left the month leading up to D

if you fix it, it is like giving her free reign to do it again,

Mr. Fixer will always swoop in. That is not a life you want.

That's why we are all here. Set the ball in motion...

it will either speed up the inevitable or force her to face

her own actions


----------



## PBear

stallion1 said:


> point taken pbear. I never really care if she knows but she doesn't tell me where she goes and I don't ask either. ill work on that for sure. I do read the 180 still. sometimes I don't realize certain things im doing. It gets picked up on here pretty quick and helps a lot. thanks.


The 180 is a continual process. Keep re-reading it, and if you slip up, don't worry about it. Just try to keep doing better at it. And remember, it's for YOU!

C


----------



## cbnero

Resist the urge to answer to her at all. It's a tough habit to break. She doesnt want you, so dont be available.

Keep staying calm and 180. If the VAR isnt showing anything maybe pull it out. Your call there.

She may just be MLC but that doesnt mean she wont implode her life. 

Your job now is to protect yourself and control your emotions and behavior. Keep the boundaries up and let her go. Watch her actions.

This is still far from over so stay strong.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> She doesn't have anything to say because you are not catering to her emotional needs at the expense of your self respect. She wants to attract the new more assertive you back into orbit around you, but she is no longer the sun. It's more like you are Mars and she Venus.
> 
> She has to go through the negative stuff in her mind and face it. If you are not what she wants and has convinced herself that this true, the reality make something else. She doesn't have a better, even if she cheating.
> 
> *Some women probably love their husband but enjoy the sex and flatter of an F buddy*.


I think you are on the right track here. My mind keeps going back to the hotel bill. 

If I were a good gambler, my money would be on her having the occasional ONS and out of town trysts with other men, instead of one single long term affair partner. That is probably why the VAR is not picking anything up. She probably sets up out of town meetings with men on the internet or men she knows from her travels. She meets them, has sex, and probably never sees them again.


----------



## stallion1

ive thought about the ONS. its possible. 

she was at the doctor a week ago for something. I don't want to get into it too much, its personal for her. they found some tumors. she has to go in this week for an mri. she originally told me it wasn't anything but yesterday she told me it might be. she is pretty scared. im worried about it as well. even though all of this is going on with our relationship I cant just ignore this issue.

I was going out with some friends last night. she text me while I was out about needing a hug again and she feels so sad. I felt bad because of the situation but just said she needs to go in and take care of herself and get some rest. she replied with im to sad to sleep I need a hug. I didn't respond. an hour later she texts.. no response! and hour later....thanks a lot! she called...I didn't answer. she text at 1am with... it really is over. I really thought maybe we could get through this.

wow, im so worried about her med issue. should I have called her back last night? if this med issue wasn't there I wouldn't have a problem with how things were handled. I cant just ignore this issue. I really feel I should be very supportive for her on this issue. what do I do?


----------



## Kevinb

I would support her...this changes the game rules


----------



## arbitrator

*Bandito: If I were to ever have questions about raising horses, by golly, I'm going to ask you!

If I have questions about the quality of the people that are in the horse business, by golly, you'll be the first that I'll come to!

I have pretty much come to the learned conclusion that my rich skanky XW brought her deceased H's best friend and co-worker(L'il Lord Lardass) into the mix because, once they connected on FB, he flirted with and flattered her, coaxed her to make those many trips to see him at his abode or on a neutral court in a swanky hotel where they played "ball" together! And as soon as he rubbed all of the "new" off of that well-played music box of hers(the emotional part of the relationship had waned for him), he just gave her "the air" and moved on just as soon as she started exhibiting overt signs of seriousness to him.

She even pursued her HS boyfriend who was a Dr. married with 5 kids because he showed her attention and she showed him something else. And sensing that if his own old lady would ever catch him and subject him to an ugly-assed, potentially financially-crippling divorce, he quickly figured that he already got what he had wanted and summarily dropped her like a hot rock!

In retrospect, she seems like the type that whenever she made her world trips to Europe, Asia, Scandanavia, Australia, the Caribbean, or Hawaii; or just even on her intra-Texas as well as her out-of-state roadtrips, she had phone numbers already so indelibly etched and hidden within her cell phone whose owners could come right up and take care of any of her probable pubic yearnings all at a moments notice.

Bottom Line, Stallion? Bandito told me about the lecherous clientele in the horse business, and I wouldn't listen. The common denominator is that both of these mullets she messed around with owned horses. Bandito knew about it ~ he told me! For whatever reason, I wouldn't listen! Now that I've been able to add 2 + 2, Bandito's projections are all too crystal clear!

IMHO, The man's advice is pure gold! Take it to the bank!*


----------



## Ceegee

stallion1 said:


> ive thought about the ONS. its possible.
> 
> 
> 
> she was at the doctor a week ago for something. I don't want to get into it too much, its personal for her. they found some tumors. she has to go in this week for an mri. she originally told me it wasn't anything but yesterday she told me it might be. she is pretty scared. im worried about it as well. even though all of this is going on with our relationship I cant just ignore this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> I was going out with some friends last night. she text me while I was out about needing a hug again and she feels so sad. I felt bad because of the situation but just said she needs to go in and take care of herself and get some rest. she replied with im to sad to sleep I need a hug. I didn't respond. an hour later she texts.. no response! and hour later....thanks a lot! she called...I didn't answer. she text at 1am with... it really is over. I really thought maybe we could get through this.
> 
> 
> 
> wow, im so worried about her med issue. should I have called her back last night? if this med issue wasn't there I wouldn't have a problem with how things were handled. I cant just ignore this issue. I really feel I should be very supportive for her on this issue. what do I do?



No, you did right by not calling her. The issue will be there whether or not you reply to her. It changes nothing. 

Have you read Regroups thread?

"You didn't fight for me Regroup?"

Sound familiar?

It had to do with her fear of abandonment. It's related to her lack of self confidence. 

It's her issue, not yours. 

It causes her to make poor decisions with regard to your relationship. 

It's manipulative and controlling. 

If you take her bait you are enabling her.


----------



## cbnero

This is all part of the game. Been there done that. She doesnt want you to be there for her - remember? She is firing you from that job as her supporter, friend, husband.

Watch her actions. Not her words. The love/hate ping pong deal is evidence she is very troubled.

Remember she is the one initiating this. The one who doesnt care. The one who hates you. Who wants to leave you.

ok? So keep it on perspective. Remove emotions.

I pray she is ok. We dont hate her. But she needs to realize the problem starts with HER. Otherwise you are just sacrificing yourself and she will keep on owning you moving forward.

You are doing good. I know this is difficult. You should do IC for yourself. Get a book or something. Let her see you working on yourself. 

Maybe I am completely wrong. Others can weigh in...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Ceegee

cbnero said:


> This is all part of the game. Been there done that. She doesnt want you to be there for her - remember? She is firing you from that job as her supporter, friend, husband.
> 
> Watch her actions. Not her words. The love/hate ping pong deal is evidence she is very troubled.
> 
> Remember she is the one initiating this. The one who doesnt care. The one who hates you. Who wants to leave you.
> 
> ok? So keep it on perspective. Remove emotions.
> 
> I pray she is ok. We dont hate her. But she needs to realize the problem starts with HER. Otherwise you are just sacrificing yourself and she will keep on owning you moving forward.
> 
> You are doing good. I know this is difficult. You should do IC for yourself. Get a book or something. Let her see you working on yourself.
> 
> Maybe I am completely wrong. Others can weigh in...
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



No, you are absolutely correct.

"I'm sorry for your health issues. I will be praying for you. Good night."

She loves cake. You provide the cake. Give her no more cake.


----------



## cbnero

So true... and just a personal reference: I tried having a conversation with then stbx re: issues.

She flips out telling me she just found out her uncle has throat cancer and she is not talking to me about this right now. Then I of course start apologizing and feeling guilty. 

Which is what she wanted.

Stay strong in the real world. Lovingly detach.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## stallion1

kevin, I do want to support her but cant forget where this all came from. hard!

arb, I know your right with the horse world. I saw that from the start and thought......no, not me! not our relationship!

cb, thanks again buddy! I like what you are saying. Thanks for the prayer and not hating her. She does have issues. it is difficult, I am working on me.....realizing what she has said from the start brings me back to reality.

ceegee, read some of the regroup thread. wow. word for word what im dealing with! all but knowing for sure if she is cheated or not. she is definitely getting to the part where im not fighting for this to work.... after all she has said about leaving and divorce and the damage being done to the point of no return.....and im not fighting for it!

"im sorry for your health issues, ill pray for you, good night" well put.

I think ill stop giving out cake! I love cake and not in the sharing mood right now!


----------



## stallion1

ps. today before she left she said... you havnt even givin me a hug..... I said... you haven't givin me a hug, im right here.

there was not a hug givin today. she just left.

guessing she wanted me to bake the cake, cut it, get a plate, bring it to her, feed it to her, then clean up the dishes...........


----------



## LongWalk

The stronger you are, the more she wants hug.

The next time she says it, pause a little and tell her "come here". When she gets over to you, then you give her a hug and look her in the eye and ask her: "Are you my b!tch?"

You don't have to have big relationship discussion.


----------



## Chuck71

stall....... CG is giving 99.9999999% the same advice me or anyone

else would. check out his threads a year ago. There is a huge

difference. There is a reason for it. CG is a professor now....in April

2013 he was a student, making Cs and Ds.

Stall when you allow cake eating, you are as guilty as she is,

you are a co-conspirator.

CBNero..... remember those comments you were leaving for 

Unbe..... they're needed here


----------



## cbnero

10-4

Stallion ol buddy, we're trying to inject you with testosterone and this hug bs is apparently your kryptonite.

In your shoes, we would all have been wishing she would walk the 10 feet and hug you. That 10 feet might as well be 10 miles. And even if she did it, it would only serve to mess you up more and not change anything. Except you would get all gushy and then you would be Gelding1









Seriously though, we all know how hard it is and how bad it hurts. But wishing and looking for signs of the old her wont work here. You need to 100% detach.

And honestly, the way she is acting, I bet if you could force yourself to do so, she might bottom out and you may have other options other than D. But the sooner you do this the better the odds of that happening.

Dont be a d!ck, but the next time she "needs a hug" perhaps letting her know you are saving hugs for those people who want you in their life wouldnt be a bad idea. Quit the game bs and become the real stallion here and show her how its done.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> ps. today before she left she said... you havnt even givin me a hug..... I said... you haven't givin me a hug, im right here.
> 
> there was not a hug givin today. she just left.
> 
> guessing she wanted me to bake the cake, cut it, get a plate, bring it to her, feed it to her, then clean up the dishes...........


And then tell you that your technique was lacking.


----------



## stallion1

Yes I questioned myself considering the med issues. Took to heart what you guys had to say. Was going to keep on keeping on even though I felt guilty. Fake it till you make it right. well......I don't feel guilty anymore.

today again she had stopped the trying to be nice thing. Back on the her needing taxes done so she could get this apartment. me..ok.. her...everyone says it will be a very good thing to do. I need to do this and get away for a while. It will be good for "both" of us....me... sounds good.....her....why are you being so mean about this. we talked about this... I wanted to let you know what is going on so your not surprised when I move.....me... you don't have to tell me about your tax situation and how your moving out anymore. I already know. I hope it works out.

Sooooo, did you see what she said, she is doing this for both of us! All this time and I didn't realize she had my best interests in mind! I am soooooooooo lucky!

I started to fall for the 30 minutes of time out of the last month that she was trying to be nice. back to her old tricks with the blink of an eye. 

realizing her actions, watching them being repeated over and over while analyzing what I see instead of turning a blind eye is making this process easier and easier. with all of your guidance of course!

I almost want to do my taxes so I can help her move out sooner than later. I have to do them anyway. It would benefit me to file taxes together this year. Do I take advantage of this for me? Or do I wait, let her file her own, do mine later (I always file an extension so I have plenty of time)?


----------



## cbnero

She wants to play the victim card thru the finish line. I wouldnt be surprised if she wants you to be the one to file too. 

I didnt really care what my ex thought when I had her served. But this is the game they play. Remember that.

These are her choices. Not your fault.

Let her go. Focus on you. You will likely feel worse before you start feeling better.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> Yes I questioned myself considering the med issues. Took to heart what you guys had to say. Was going to keep on keeping on even though I felt guilty. Fake it till you make it right. well......I don't feel guilty anymore.
> 
> today again she had stopped the trying to be nice thing. Back on the her needing taxes done so she could get this apartment. me..ok.. her...everyone says it will be a very good thing to do. I need to do this and get away for a while. It will be good for "both" of us....me... sounds good.....her....why are you being so mean about this. we talked about this... I wanted to let you know what is going on so your not surprised when I move.....me...* you don't have to tell me about your tax situation and how your moving out anymore. I already know. I hope it works out.*
> 
> *Excellent response! *
> 
> Sooooo, did you see what she said, she is doing this for both of us! All this time and I didn't realize she had my best interests in mind! I am soooooooooo lucky!
> 
> *Just more manipulation. She hates, hates, hates it that she cannot get a rise out of you. *
> 
> I started to fall for the 30 minutes of time out of the last month that she was trying to be nice. back to her old tricks with the blink of an eye.
> 
> realizing her actions, watching them being repeated over and over while analyzing what I see instead of turning a blind eye is making this process easier and easier. with all of your guidance of course!
> 
> *This is because you are climbing to 50,000 feet. This is the 180 at work helping you to disengage your emotions and see the problem clearly and objectively. Now that you are looking at it objectively, you can make lucid, sound decisions. *
> 
> 
> I almost want to do my taxes so I can help her move out sooner than later. I have to do them anyway. It would benefit me to file taxes together this year. Do I take advantage of this for me? Or do I wait, let her file her own, do mine later (I always file an extension so I have plenty of time)?
> 
> *Ask your lawyer. *


----------



## bandit.45

At some point, when you feel the time is right, now or down the road you need to hit her up with the hotel question. 

"Hey my soon-to-be-ex, why did you rent a posh hotel room for your trip a couple weeks back when you could have just stayed at your trainers' place? Having a little pokey-poke with a guy friend? Maybe I should ask your toxic waste-of-space girlfriend."


----------



## Ceegee

stallion1 said:


> Yes I questioned myself considering the med issues. Took to heart what you guys had to say. Was going to keep on keeping on even though I felt guilty. Fake it till you make it right. well......I don't feel guilty anymore.
> 
> today again she had stopped the trying to be nice thing. Back on the her needing taxes done so she could get this apartment. me..ok.. her...everyone says it will be a very good thing to do. I need to do this and get away for a while. It will be good for "both" of us....me... sounds good.....her....why are you being so mean about this. we talked about this... I wanted to let you know what is going on so your not surprised when I move.....me... you don't have to tell me about your tax situation and how your moving out anymore. I already know. I hope it works out.
> 
> Sooooo, did you see what she said, she is doing this for both of us! All this time and I didn't realize she had my best interests in mind! I am soooooooooo lucky!
> 
> I started to fall for the 30 minutes of time out of the last month that she was trying to be nice. back to her old tricks with the blink of an eye.
> 
> realizing her actions, watching them being repeated over and over while analyzing what I see instead of turning a blind eye is making this process easier and easier. with all of your guidance of course!
> 
> I almost want to do my taxes so I can help her move out sooner than later. I have to do them anyway. It would benefit me to file taxes together this year. Do I take advantage of this for me? Or do I wait, let her file her own, do mine later (I always file an extension so I have plenty of time)?


Stallion, 

This is great. 

Another parallel to regroup. 

She's pushing the buttons on the soda machine. 

She wants coke but you keep giving her Pepsi. 

I agree with Bandit, ask you attorney about the taxes. However, I believe in giving defiant (disordered, as the case may be) people what they want. 

Give her one more giant Pepsi


----------



## LongWalk

bandit.45 said:


> At some point, when you feel the time is right, now or down the road you need to hit her up with the hotel question.
> 
> "Hey my soon-to-be-ex, why did you rent a posh hotel room for your trip a couple weeks back when you could have just stayed at your trainers' place? Having a little pokey-poke with a guy friend? Maybe I should ask your toxic waste-of-space girlfriend."


Won't she just gaslight?

Horse man,

Your wife is strong personality. Does she suffer BPD or some other disorder? I don't have feel for it really. However, when there is moral order in her life, she may be a good person and a good wife. At the moment she free floating. She is not certain whether she likes it or not. It is possible that by being steady and standing up for yourself, she will change her ways.

It is also possible that she is a WW or WAW who has checked out. It may be hopeless if so.

The answer to this will come sooner rather than later.

Remain confident, polite but firm. Let action to the talking.

The tax situation is something your account should explain.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> Won't she just gaslight?


Maybe. But at the very least her reaction would be entertaining and informative.


----------



## cbnero

Who paid for the room? Her? Out of a joint account?

what are the details on this?

I would ask her if there is anything about the last trip she would like to disclose.. Let her sweat and see if she lies. Dont show you hand and let her know you found the receipt.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

cbnero said:


> Who paid for the room? Her? Out of a joint account?
> 
> what are the details on this?
> 
> I would ask her if there is anything about the last trip she would like to disclose.. Let her sweat and see if she lies. Dont show you hand and let her know you found the receipt.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


And do it with a mischievous grin on your face and one ****ed eyebrow....


----------



## stallion1

so I don't know how to quote certain parts of responses. please help me with this. ill make it easier!

bandit I like your replies. I agree the time is near when I get to the hotel thing. 

ceegee, pepsi? hey sweethart, big gulp huh. well see you later!

CB, on the VAR she was talking to the other trainer about our situation, bad mouthing me etc. the other day she said the other trainer didn't know. yea right! Lies! Im not being rude to her at all just to the point. im for sure not a gelding1. but thanks for reminding me ive still got bxlls! I will show her how its done!

longwalk, she is a strong personality. she does have moments that shine through. I know deep down she wants to be a good person. does she have BPD, maybe. never diagnosed with it. Ive always thought it might be the case. I think there are so many issues that its near impossible for her to realize any of this and making her unable to change any issues.

so, the hardest part for me is that I know who she could be. and its an amazing person. but I cant bring her to that point. and I am really starting to see that she isn't able to do this for herself at this point.....sad...

with that said, I don't deserve this and I need to live my life in the positive manner that I want.

I do see that I need to detach in order to get to the point in my life that is most important to me.


----------



## bandit.45

She doesn't have BPD. 

She's just a spoiled, immature, entitled little b!tch, who surrounds herself with other spoiled, immature, entitled little b!tch friends. 

Move forward with divorce and find a woman with some heart.


----------



## arbitrator

*Just make good and sure that the Coke or the Pepsi, or whatever it is that she's drinking, is as flat as the answers that she's giving you!

Sounds like she and my rich, skanky XW would make beautiful friends! After all, they seem to have so damn much in common!*


----------



## stallion1

bandit,, yes your right! Its like she had a stallion who gave her everything she ever wanted in a horse. She rode that horse through swamps and quick sand and brillo patches. That horse just about died to get her there. Then, when she got there, it was so wonderful she forgot about the horse that got her there. She wanted to geld him and then out to pasture for the old boy.

her friends told her it was ok because he would be better off.

what she doesn't know is that the old horse felt the neglect. he ran through the fence, into the fancy barn with the fancy new horse, reared up, showed her his bwlls, dropped some horse apples on the floor and then walked away proud as could be. clean it up honey.

ARB.......yes they would definitely be friendly. im sure swaping stories. Laughing, having a good time. moving on to the next poor soul. But we are friends, we are swaping stories, we are laughing, at the next poor soul.


----------



## bandit.45

Your'e sort of like a strawberry roan stud... a rare color and interesting to look at. You held her attention for a decade, probably longer than her limited attention span could handle...

Now she is looking for a pinto, or a grullo buckskin with tiger stripes on his pasterns... something different to fill her dull mind....

It's just the same old tired story with spoiled, selfish people like her.

We're with you friend.


----------



## Chuck71

the hotel..... do you know which one it was? what night?

how many nights? I have an "idear"


----------



## stallion1

i know which one it was, it was the first day she got there, it was for one night.


----------



## cbnero

Who paid for it? Her? From which account?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## stallion1

she paid, her personal checking account. Not a joint account. You see, and may be surprised, that she likes to keep her money for her. Not much for sharing financials. Unless she needs money for something in which case I usually caved in!!!! (used to cave)

shocking right


----------



## cbnero

Ok well we dont know anything about that hotel with OM. VAR yielded nothing.

She hasnt bottomed out yet.

My advice for this week: Completely detach. 100%.
Dont play along at all. Be HAPPY thats all you should let her see. Show no other emotion.

When she tries to engage and says hurtful things like we are getting a divorce or you dont care or you wont hug me, come back with: "I did care but you decided you were leaving me and this marriage so I moved on. I think you are right it's for the best." Then walk away whistling. Go anywhere but leave the house right then. Dont answer phone or texts.

Remember how Jerry Seinfeld handled being dumped on "The Opposite." Oh thats okay, no problem. I'll find someone else. It's been nice being married to you for a while, and good luck!

Dont be snide about it. Be genuine. If you can do this you will win. Period. Regardless the outcome with the marriage.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> she paid, her personal checking account. Not a joint account. You see, and may be surprised, that she likes to keep her money for her. Not much for sharing financials. Unless she needs money for something in which case I usually caved in!!!! (used to cave)
> 
> shocking right


Yes, I fell out of my chair.


----------



## LongWalk

Good post by Cbnero. We all know the script but it bears rewriting a thousand times.

Horseman, however it ends she must always look back and raise your stock with every rethink
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

stallion1 said:


> she paid, her personal checking account. Not a joint account. You see, and may be surprised, that she likes to keep her money for her. Not much for sharing financials. Unless she needs money for something in which case I usually caved in!!!! (used to cave)
> 
> 
> 
> shocking right



Great, then she can pay for her own attorney. Easy, peasy, Japanesey. 

Actually makes things easier for you split.


----------



## cbnero

Go pull her phone off your plan. Start making plans to do what you enjoy. By a new outfit, underwear, Cologne. Make sure you have your own bank act and get your money out of any joint account. Shave that goatee and stop wearing caps. 

Don't tell her what you're doing. Be mysterious. 
Let her see what this looks like.

Let her go. Be happy and wish her well. 

Watch her reactions. Start winning.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## LongWalk

Start giving private riding lessons to MILF's


----------



## cbnero

Yes!!! Winning!!!!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

Mach put this in a CWI post... it's the best I've seen:

As everyone says you've got to be willing to burn the village to save it. It's harder to do when she has moved out, but it's definitely doable.

First expose to everyone in her family. Don't give her money for anything. 

As you've already been told, quit discussing the relationship. Go dark on everything but kids, until she's served. If she comes around, you can always stop it.

Change your hair. Grow it, cut it, dye it, just change it. Add or subtract facial hair.

Get another ride. Something a single guy would drive. Hot rod, chopper, sports car.

Get in the shape of your life; as in a defined six pack, and the broadest shoulders you can get.

Start dressing like a guy ten years younger with 3X the income.

Next time she sees you, and ever time thereafter, she needs to see the above changes. Just like her fake rack, this is a signal to her that you are moving onward and upward to younger and hotter. Start going out like you're dating the world. Have a baby sitter in a couple of nights per week. Got to a movie, go to the library, go feed the bears, just be going out.

She will not like this message. Provoking that is your best option. Unfortunately, she is probably too far gone and living on her own gives her too much time to sample strange. She can get addicted, due to the brain chemistry involved, to riding the cøck carousel really quick.

The outward improvements and the clouds of mystery pouring confusion on the ground may get her attention. She may possibly become intrigued, more likely not, but if this doesn't work, nothing else will either.


----------



## happy as a clam

cbnero said:


> Shave that goatee and stop wearing caps.


Well h*ll Stallion, if I had known you were sporting a goatee and wearing baseball caps all the time, this would have changed my opinion on everything!!! (just kidding...)


----------



## bandit.45

I think Stallion is going to have a hard time proving she cheated. She seems pretty wiley, and if it were some kind of long term affair, he would have caught something on the VAR. 

She could have had a ONS, or she could have just stayed at the hotel to use the spa and get a mud treatment... he will never know because she covers her tracks too well. 

Bottom line is that it is clear she is unhappy, for whatever reason her Bag 'O Cats head has for it. He needs to do the 180 with aplomb, and cheerfully start to disengage from her. 

She needs to chase him if she want's to turn his horse around.


----------



## happy as a clam

bandit.45 said:


> ...she is unhappy, for whatever reason her Bag 'O Cats head has for it...


Love this! Made me laugh out loud.


----------



## stallion1

so what im hearing is Buck up, not get bucked off!

cb, clean myself up? I love the rugged look, beard, ballcap, looking like I just got done rolling in the dirt! but.........I get it.

nice pic happy, similar but not me, I have more facial hair than this guy! and my hat is dirtier. unless its my Stetson !

longwalk, riding lessons for MILFs, well, only if they have never been involved in the horse business!!!!!

ceegee, yes she can pay for her own. she wanted us to both go together so it would be cheaper. I said go ahead on your own. I'll decide what I want to do when im ready. meaning I will get my lawyer, pay him, get my ducks in a row and she can be surprised and pay for her own once she is served. didn't want to tell her that is my intent. she can pay her own way on this train ride. oh and she hasn't made any effort to get a lawyer. doesn't want to deal with real life issues.

Conrad, im working on it, the only two times shes wanted to talk or need a hug is when she knew I was going out or out with people. She does not like it. no kids so I don't have to worry about that. Ive got a six pack but it isn't my abs, yet!
I don't think it will change her mind but it will definitely make an impression.

bandit, she is pretty sly. my bet, if anything, would be on the ONS. she can cover her tracks well, and I can see her not telling a soul. never know till you know. She can chase me all she wants. Hard to keep up with Hidalgo!


----------



## bandit.45

That Hildalgo was a great flick. :smthumbup:

I liked Viggo Mortenson in "Apaloosa" too. He plays a damn good cowboy. From what I hear he is a superb horseman. 

Pretty cool for a guy from Denmark.


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> Conrad, im working on it, the only two times shes wanted to talk or need a hug is when she knew I was going out or out with people. She does not like it. no kids so I don't have to worry about that. Ive got a six pack but it isn't my abs, yet!
> I don't think it will change her mind but it will definitely make an impression.


Remember, that's not our objective.

Our objective is a studly stallion who lives his life to the fullest.

All the blessings of such a decision follow suit.


----------



## stallion1

Conrad said:


> Remember, that's not our objective.
> 
> Our objective is a studly stallion who lives his life to the fullest.
> 
> All the blessings of such a decision follow suit.


understood. well put. :iagree:


----------



## LongWalk

Glad my days as dad to girls taking riding lessons are over. I swear one of those nags tried to bite my manhood off. Girls are so fascinated by the challenge of controlling an animal more powerful that them. What are they practicing for?

Horseman, keep using the VAR.

Take control of your life and show her that you will not be gelded.

The divorce settlement will be very painful for her.


----------



## stallion1

after everything ive learned today I blew it!

she told me she was leaving to stay at her worthless friends again......I said don't worry ill take care of the dogs. her......I was going to give them away but you said you wanted to keep them............me, yea so you abandoned them!............ooops.
some of her blah blah blah came out.

then she told me she is pissed cause everyone is on her case about moving out. and that its not about them its about her and what she needs. She said this is my life and it has nothing to do with anybody else.............so against all rules I engage.

I said its not only about you. your actions affect other people as well. pretty much got to the point of this is what she needs, I explained that it has an effect on us and she has shown me nothing to think she wants our marriage to work. she said I haven't done anything either. Then She said this would help us start over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and once she moves and has some time we could start going on a date once in a while!!!!!!!!!! 2 seconds ago she said its her life and it has nothing to do with anybody else! 

oh boy, lucky me. She still respects me enough to keep me tied to the hitchin post at home while she goes out on her own. Maybe ill get a carrot once in a while.

I know, I know, detach, 180, no relationship talk. I just got pissed when she said its all about her, and I haven't done anything to work on the relationship. 

Don't worry, I see where things are, Its just so hard not to shake someone when they have no idea, are so selfish, and so ....so....so.......dumb.

so did my talk make her realize anything...no...has it ever....no.
I know. Just had to put my 2 cents in this time.

please all of you, don't hold your breath for this "date" she is talking about now! The only "date" coming up is the one where I start over.


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> so what im hearing is Buck up, not get bucked off!


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> after everything ive learned today I blew it!
> 
> she told me she was leaving to stay at her worthless friends again......I said don't worry ill take care of the dogs. her......I was going to give them away but you said you wanted to keep them............me, yea so you abandoned them!............ooops.
> some of her blah blah blah came out.
> 
> then she told me she is pissed cause everyone is on her case about moving out. and that its not about them its about her and what she needs. She said this is my life and it has nothing to do with anybody else.............so against all rules I engage.
> 
> I said its not only about you. your actions affect other people as well. pretty much got to the point of this is what she needs, I explained that it has an effect on us and she has shown me nothing to think she wants our marriage to work. she said I haven't done anything either. Then She said this would help us start over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and once she moves and has some time we could start going on a date once in a while!!!!!!!!!! 2 seconds ago she said its her life and it has nothing to do with anybody else!
> 
> oh boy, lucky me. She still respects me enough to keep me tied to the hitchin post at home while she goes out on her own. Maybe ill get a carrot once in a while.
> 
> I know, I know, detach, 180, no relationship talk. I just got pissed when she said its all about her, and I haven't done anything to work on the relationship.
> 
> Don't worry, I see where things are, Its just so hard not to shake someone when they have no idea, are so selfish, and so ....so....so.......dumb.
> 
> so did my talk make her realize anything...no...has it ever....no.
> I know. Just had to put my 2 cents in this time.
> 
> please all of you, don't hold your breath for this "date" she is talking about now! The only "date" coming up is the one where I start over.


Sounds like Plan B to me.

Go hang with cb for awhile.

He may not tell you this, but he wasn't always this towering hulk of machismo.

He knows the drill.


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> so did my talk make her realize anything...no...has it ever....no.
> I know. Just had to put my 2 cents in this time.
> 
> please all of you, don't hold your breath for this "date" she is talking about now! The only "date" coming up is the one where I start over.


Don't beat yourself up. If anything, this talk shows you exactly, without a doubt, where she is. 

Same old WAW talk as we always see here. It gets so tiresome. 

She wants to separate and date you...yeah. In actuality she wants to date you.... and forty other men. She wants to separate so she can cheat and then use the separation as a defense against anyone calling her an adulteress. 

Move on Stallion. File for divorce and have her served. Get back on that pale horse called the "180" and ride outta town.


----------



## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


>


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:.....:smthumbup:


----------



## cbnero

Sorry for the late arrival to this party. Had a 29 yr old over cokking me lasgna and drinking wine toniggt.

what a cook! GgrrrrRRRRRrrrr

anyways 6 Stellas and a bottle of wine later...

Dude dint sweat any of this bs. I am ywlling u that you will feel better soon, the sun is avout to rise.

The next time you feel hurt and feel like engaging her... walk out and call me. Dont give her the satisfaction.

F her...

I am telling you that you that this will be the best thing that ever happend yo you. Resicovering yourswlf and taking charge of your own happiness. Nothing bettwr.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

ahhhh, my good friend CB............sounds like the vino and stella encouraged you to have a good time. Based on your spelling, I would say you had fun! 29! you stud you.... based on your reply...........she must have gone home! either way, good for you:smthumbup:

I will call you next time she pulls her bs. then we can meet up and talk about life after D. maybe a stella or two!

How does it feel to have someone want to make you dinner again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Chuck71

if I were you, I'd keep the dogs and give her away

right now...you are your own man...live life

answer to no one...... she has proven she notices this

you are seeking a certain response from her

if you do not get it, keep on, keepin on

in the end, this newness is for your future

not hers, not yours and hers, just yours


----------



## cbnero

Her head is so far up her own arse she can see what she had for dinner last night.

Sorry this is happening, but she is following the cheaters script pretty closely. It is unlikely you will catch her with the VAR. The whole blame shifting of you not doing anything is crap. You arent the one who wants out - she is.

Time for serious boundaries and some hard choices here.

Get your ducks in a row, asap. Dont worry about slipping up, you dont need to be perfect. You are doing great.

Have your attorney draw up the D paperwork to give her. The next time she brings this up you can tell her that since she cannot decide between you and another man (which is what she is cowardly trying to tell you) that you have made this simple for her - you are no longer an option. Have a nice life.

Then get out of there. No more drama bs. See what the investor has planned for the lease and farm. Make the moves YOU want without worrying about her.

Keep your dignity and save yourself a bunch of headaches.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Sorry for the late arrival to this party. Had a 29 yr old over cokking me lasgna and drinking wine toniggt.
> 
> what a cook! GgrrrrRRRRRrrrr
> 
> anyways 6 Stellas and a bottle of wine later...
> 
> Dude dint sweat any of this bs. I am ywlling u that you will feel better soon, the sun is avout to rise.
> 
> The next time you feel hurt and feel like engaging her... walk out and call me. Dont give her the satisfaction.
> 
> F her...
> 
> I am telling you that you that this will be the best thing that ever happend yo you. Resicovering yourswlf and taking charge of your own happiness. Nothing bettwr.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I literally laughed out loud reading this.

Glad you weren't driving.


----------



## cbnero

Ahahaha! Dont know what to say... lol

I seem to be feeling much better these days.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Rev. Clonn

I agree it's time you become the "one that got away"
Stay strong and don't kick yourself for what you did yesterday or last year or whenever live for tomorrow.


----------



## LongWalk

Does your wife ride English or Western?


----------



## stallion1

longwalk, DRESSAGE!

enough said?!!!

she's crafty........caught me completely off guard this afternoon.
she wanted some guidance on what to do for her taxes again....weird right! I just said I don't know. Your going to someone I haven't dealt with before. Why don't you give them a call and ask them..............................

is it really this hard to fing figure out.

then she says ok......pause.........really confused look on her face....wrinkled up spot between the eyes confused.... I was looking at her thinking....something might explode in there! Then I thought one of the cats got out the the "bag O cats" in her head and was doing some damage...........

then........."well, do you want to go to dinner!"

I was so shocked, I think my jaw hit the floor, had no idea what to say (I couldn't even come up with, nope im busy tonight) I just came up with............."WHY?" yes with a smile on my face. I almost started laughing. I knew what I should have said after the fact, But just came out as a simple "WHY"

her response was angry, "you know what, forget it" and then ran away.

one hour later,,,,,,,,,, she sees me in the house and tells me that the "stupid" computer deleted all the tax stuff she was working on for the last two hours when she tried to print it off.:rofl::rofl: 

I said, that sucks, did you save it?.... her.....Well, no!:rofl::rofl:

then she said she had to run into town to get some stuff and if I wanted her to get me some dinner!!!!! No thanks I already made my dinner. I have to get some work done. See you later.

Well that was an hour ago and she hasn't left for town yet..........


oh, and earlier in the day "I went behind her back by talking to the investor, its non of his business, Im trying to sabotage the business, etc..."

maybe the nickname Dark Horse will suit her. (no im not a katy perry fan!)


----------



## cbnero

Some serious boundaries are needed here. Asap.

I know you both. Maybe her not as well, especially in her current state 

But to me as an outsider she seems like she is begging for help and you to take control.

I think it would require you to seriously lead in sorting this all out and what direction this marriage goes. It is time to really wrap your head around getting this done. No more games. Clock is ticking.

You are not getting to 50k. Time to go serious alpha here in my opinion. Be kind and calm, but being strong and putting up and holding some boundaries might go a long way. 

Be SOFT SPOKEN. Like you are dealing with a child. Do NOT get angry. Kind, calm, on point, strong.

Hopefully others will weigh in shortly. Feels like things are getting close to boiling point.

Of course in the absence of OM or abandonment I am still promarriage.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

Well, the "Why?" part was a little lame, but otherwise I think you did okay Stallion. You probably should have nonchalantly said "No thanks" or "No you go ahead, I'm not hungry" or something like that. 

As for helping her out, tell her that separation means separation. This is what she wanted. Let her sweat living life on her own. I've been doing my own taxes since I was 18. Time for her to wear her big girl britches. 

Until she decides to come to you and really talk....REALLY talk.... instead of skirting around the issues and playing games ...i.e. start acting like an adult... then stay on your path.


----------



## bandit.45

cbnero said:


> Some serious boundaries are needed here. Asap.
> 
> I know you both. Maybe her not as well, especially in her current state
> 
> But to me as an outsider she seems like she is begging for help and you to take control.
> 
> I think it would require you to seriously lead in sorting this all out and what direction this marriage goes. It is time to really wrap your head around getting this done. No more games. Clock is ticking.
> 
> You are not getting to 50k. Time to go serious alpha here in my opinion. Be kind and calm, but being strong and putting up and holding some boundaries might go a long way.
> 
> Be SOFT SPOKEN. Like you are dealing with a child. Do NOT get angry. Kind, calm, on point, strong.
> 
> Hopefully others will weigh in shortly. Feels like things are getting close to boiling point.
> 
> Of course in the absence of OM or abandonment I am still promarriage.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I wonder if she wanted him to go out to eat with her so she could talk to him about the marriage?

Of course, everytime he has reached out to her or responded to her she has turned around and slammed the door in his face. I can see why he doesn't trust her.


----------



## cbnero

Just to give an example:

Dont be Mr Nice Guy. Dont be rude but start honest and effective communication. 

When she asked you to dinner - I dont want to go to dinner with you. You stated you dont value me or this marriage. I appreciate your honesty and so I will be eating with those who choose to love and value me.

re read NMMNG

stop living and acting out of fear

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

cbnero said:


> Just to give an example:
> 
> Dont be Mr Nice Guy. Dont be rude but start honest and effective communication.
> 
> When she asked you to dinner - I dont want to go to dinner with you. You stated you dont value me or this marriage. I appreciate your honesty and so I will be eating with those who choose to love and value me.
> 
> re read NMMNG
> 
> stop living and acting out of fear
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


got it,, don't be rude.... ive been pretty good at that but any part of me declining her offer for dinner or a hug, she considers rude.

more effective conversation........I agree 100 percent. her asking me to dinner was shocking. I lost consciousness for a couple seconds. she hasn't wanted to go do anything with me for ever. 
back to effectiveness, my answer of WHY really meant in my mind exactly what you said CB. I just couldn't get it out that way..

STill Working on this stuff.

WE still live together so I cant go absolutely no contact and we have to discuss the business stuff. which I keep short, to the point and productive.


----------



## cbnero

You don't need to go 100% NC yet, that's for a different situation.

Re read the 180 and NMMNG tonight.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Just to give an example:
> 
> Dont be Mr Nice Guy. Dont be rude but start honest and effective communication.
> 
> When she asked you to dinner - I dont want to go to dinner with you. You stated you dont value me or this marriage. I appreciate your honesty and so I will be eating with those who choose to love and value me.
> 
> re read NMMNG
> 
> stop living and acting out of fear
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Better yet:

"No, I don't wish to go to dinner. I have other plans"

Then leave the house.


----------



## cbnero

Conrad is right. I havent had to do 180 in a while. Firn answer. It isnt rude at all. And doesnt open the door or initiate any discussion. But man get out of the house after that. And dont answer phone or texts.

Stop explaining yourself to her. You dont need to.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Ceegee

You cannot ignore the elephant in the room. 

She wants separation. She has made her wishes known. 

Do not placate her by accepting crumbs. 

She needs to want to make the marriage work and all these crumbs indicate are mild loneliness and insecurity. Same reason she wants to separate. 

Until she knows what she wants you do anything you want that doesn't include her.


----------



## stallion1

pretty sure she is looking for me to solve our situation whether its me filing for D or me begging her to work it out.

I feel ive put things in limbo. I think ive made it seem like I just don't care what she does.

Mind you, anytime she puts forth any effort to be nice to me, I ask her if she wants to talk about anything. then its either no, or she gets pissy and starts to argue, and that's when I walk away.

so tonight as im sitting in a chair she walks up to me an sits in my lap. Im clearly irritated by this but tried to be, like, whatever, and continue watching the news saying hey im really interested in this.....she tells me how rude I am, negative, blah blah blah..........

So I took the bait.. I know she is blaming me right now for me not doing anything to fix our situation. I know that ive been distant because of the 180. but she really doesn't have an issue with her taking off whenever she wants, dropping her dogs for almost 6 weeks completely,......etc...anyways, it seems she is using my reactions as more ammo to blame me.

so tonight I laid it out for her when she blamed me for not doing anything. I said..............I tried over and over to get you to make things work with us. You said no, no, no. We went to one counseling session. You said the counselor was crazy. in the session you told me you didn't love me, you were moving out no matter what, you base things on energy you feel, and that energy is bad. oh, and its been so bad for so long, you felt that you know when its done, your done. You cant go back. so when someone makes it so clear that they don't want to be with me, then I will respect that and let it go. So don't put the blame on me for not trying to do anything.

then she said she didn't put any blame on me. I said, if you look me in the eye, tell me that it my fault that I haven't done anything to try and make this work,,,,,,, is that not blaming me.........her...............no its not me blaming you.

it started getting hot. I left. sent her a text. it read....big changes need to be made both ways. Ive offered multiple times. been turned down as many times.........big changes on both sides. Ive gotten no indication your are willing. Ball is in your court.


THOUGHTS

then she tried to push her way into my room again, got a little crazy, I had to hold the door shut. just kept saying please, lets not do this. we are in a bad spot right now lets just go to bed. even if we talk its already heated and not going to be constructive so please leave. lets both go to bed and not let this escalate any more.

wow. the communication is so bad between us. even if im clam, trying to make it make sense to her she just flips.... I feel like the 180 (as much as I have figured out) has done a number. when I was chasing her and begging and saying lets make it work over and over she was calm and sure of herself and what she needed.

Now, its a fing yo=yo. up down left right sane insane. reasonable unreasonable.

I thought maybe if I made it clear why I wasn't begging anymore, she would be able to make her decision as to really try and work on herself or not. in turn this marriage or not.

all in all, I'm not upset with my actions or the outcome. More realization on my part. However, please enlighten me.

see will never see it.

when it got heated and toward the end of the confrontation, she said what are we going to do, just live in bedrooms across the hall. I said, youre moving out, she said, no im not, im not going anywhere. blah blah then she said she will never file and it will have to be me because its not her fault blah blah blah......I said I know................


----------



## LongWalk

Did she want to have sex? Is that why she was pushing to get into bedroom and sitting on your lap?

You can have sex with her and take control of the situation. Just don't let her use it to mess with you.


----------



## Conrad

LongWalk said:


> Did she want to have sex? Is that why she was pushing to get into bedroom and sitting on your lap?
> 
> You can have sex with her and take control of the situation. Just don't let her use it to mess with you.


stallion,

Her actions are now begging you to take control of the relationship and start leading.

Walk is correct.

If you wish, let her in the room next time and when she comes in, grab her around the waist and take her. A huge 15-20 second kiss directly on the lips.

You'll know exactly what to do after that - make it furious.


----------



## cbnero

Yes enough of this foreplay.

Tap that and tell her you'll take breakfast in bed.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

I'd make her sleep in the other room when I'm done.

But then, I'm as a$$.


----------



## Ceegee

When she sat on your lap you should have farted.

When she tried to come into your bedroom you should have said, "I'm tired and going to bed; so, unless you're here to f, you can just turn around and walk back out."

FWIW, never be negatively physical with her; ie, don't hold the door closed when she's trying to open it. Better to just let her in and be calm and cool.


----------



## bandit.45

Next time she gets physical like that just smile a huge smile and say... "Ohhh, you need me that bad huh?", and grab her and throw her on the bed and bang her brains out. 

Then when you two are done, ask her about the hotel bill.


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion, 

She's treating you like a naughty horse. Trying to put the twitch on you. 

Go the other way. If she wants a little loving, give her what she wants.... but make it clear to her nothing has changed. Make it clear that you are still headed for D if she is not willing to go to MC and work with you.


----------



## Chuck71

could put her off until the next night

mention you have plans with watching

"Best of the Big-Haired Porn Stars of 1984"

just for show, have roll tissue on nightstand


----------



## Conrad

You know, when stallions get quiet, I suspect they are sampling the merchandise.


----------



## Tron

Are you suggesting he took the filly out for a gallop around the track?


----------



## Chuck71

just hope spider web wasn't cast


----------



## Ceegee

Stallion and cb went out on the town and tied one on. 

Cb pinched the rear of a bikers chick and the dude swung at Cb. 

Cb duck and the punch hit Stallion square in the nose. 

Big bar fight ensues. 

After settles down, bikers realize Stallion and CB aren't such bad dudes. Chick turns out to be bikers sister who went out with her big brother because she just found out her boyfriend had been cheating on her. 

She takes sympathy with Stallion. They trade stories and are currently laying in the barn after a long night of "getting to know now another".

Just my guess.


----------



## stallion1

well, ceegee, it wasn't quite like that but I like the story! Was almost a bar fight Friday! Went to a place where one of the barn employees was playing in a band. I was one of two white males in the whole place. there were a couple of girls there as well as the wife....I meet them there cause the EE really wanted us to see his band. Lets just say a lot of guys at this place liked the girls and didn't like us! there was a gathering of 15 people speaking at us in another language. things got hot until our EE ran over, made a few comments and waited utill the group dispersed!! we left shortly after....that would have been a rodeo!


there was no horseplay. she did want to "snuggle" last night and I said I would like to snuggle with someone who was in Love with me. then she got mad and said I was acting like I don't want this to work out... again.

I tried for a while to make it work,,, she said nonnononnonono.
after working on me and 180 etc. she recently starts seeing it as me not wanting it to work. Now she wants to go back to counseling.....with a different counselor of course, because she didn't like her. she told me the one she wanted to go to who is a male, a few years older than us, focuses on eastern philosophy. 

she wants to also go talk tonight. which I agreed to. 

she still plans on moving out for awhile but cant move till June im told.

she says im acting like I don't want it to work. she might be right. I just don't see the relationship changing to where it would be good. we will see if she ends up scheduling MC. even so I don't think she will be there to look at herself and how she can improve, which is what would really need to happen.

got the keylogger set. we'll see what that brings. She had a bag from the hotel in her room! perfect. I asked her when she stayed at the hotel. She said when she was in florida. She said the other trainers apartment was flooded and they both stayed at the hotel for 2 nights. I said, I didn't know that, she said she told me that. 

any conversation, which is usually about 2 min. long, I just see her talking about her needs, I hear blame on my part. This wont change. it hasn't yet. can I give her a list of what I need and see if she can handle that list? do I just keep doing what im doing and let her take the initiative and make a decision. although, she wont make the ultimate decision if its D. she has a hard time with any big decision. She cant handle the responsibility of it................

next weekend ill have better stories. Going out for a friends fiancés birthday Friday and more fun to continue on sat. sooo no biker chicks, bar fights, rollin' in the hay yet! and if CB ducks and I get hit, well good for him but id kick him in the shin on the way down!


----------



## bandit.45

Stay out of latino bars. They hate gringos because they think their women will dump them for rich white boys. 

I nearly got myself killed in Nacozari, Sonora once, by making the mistake of talking to a Mexican girl at a bar one night. I was 19 and an idiot and wasn't thinking. Next thing I know Flaco and five of his compadres were standing around me ready to tear me limb from limb. 

There's a time to stand up for yourself and then there is a time to run.

I ran.


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> there was no horseplay. she did want to "snuggle" last night and I said I would like to snuggle with someone who was in Love with me. then she got mad and said I was acting like I don't want this to work out... again.
> 
> I tried for a while to make it work,,, she said nonnononnonono.
> after working on me and 180 etc. she recently starts seeing it as me not wanting it to work. Now she wants to go back to counseling.....with a different counselor of course, because she didn't like her. she told me the one she wanted to go to who is a male, a few years older than us, focuses on eastern philosophy.
> 
> she wants to also go talk tonight. which I agreed to.
> 
> she still plans on moving out for awhile but cant move till June im told.
> 
> she says im acting like I don't want it to work. she might be right. I just don't see the relationship changing to where it would be good. we will see if she ends up scheduling MC. even so I don't think she will be there to look at herself and how she can improve, which is what would really need to happen.
> 
> got the keylogger set. we'll see what that brings. She had a bag from the hotel in her room! perfect. I asked her when she stayed at the hotel. She said when she was in florida. She said the other trainers apartment was flooded and they both stayed at the hotel for 2 nights. I said, I didn't know that, she said she told me that.
> 
> any conversation, which is usually about 2 min. long, I just see her talking about her needs, I hear blame on my part. This wont change. it hasn't yet. can I give her a list of what I need and see if she can handle that list? do I just keep doing what im doing and let her take the initiative and make a decision. although, she wont make the ultimate decision if its D. she has a hard time with any big decision. She cant handle the responsibility of it................
> 
> next weekend ill have better stories. Going out for a friends fiancés birthday Friday and more fun to continue on sat. sooo no biker chicks, bar fights, rollin' in the hay yet! and if CB ducks and I get hit, well good for him but id kick him in the shin on the way down!


She's a b!tch Stallion. Sorry but I call them as I see them.

Maybe you don't want to work it out Stallion. 

Maybe you are tired of her sh!t. 

Maybe you are tired of being the one doing all the work in the relationship, as well as running the business. 

Maybe you are tired of investing so much in this one-sided relationship and getting nothing back. 

Maybe you are tired of being treated like a sub-human by her. 

Maybe you need to tell her she just isn't worth the trouble and be done with this farce. 

I don't think you really want to be married to her. I think you just are having a hard time admitting this isn't going to work. You aren't a quitter, and quitting on the marriage rubs you the wrong way. It goes against your nature to quit. 

But sometimes you have to let it go.


----------



## Chuck71

what's in it for you stall? try this.... get a D....this will allow her

the time to hopefully face her emotional issues.

If she accomplishes these, by all means, get remarried

happens more often than you think, my parents did

course :rofl: I came along on #2...poor $hits 

this M is fractured ..... to revive it, you must kill it


----------



## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> She's a b!tch Stallion. Sorry but I call them as I see them.
> 
> Maybe you don't want to work it out Stallion.
> 
> Maybe you are tired of her sh!t.
> 
> Maybe you are tired of being the one doing all the work in the relationship, as well as running the business.
> 
> Maybe you are tired of investing so much in this one-sided relationship and getting nothing back.
> 
> Maybe you are tired of being treated like a sub-human by her.
> 
> Maybe you need to tell her she just isn't worth the trouble and be done with this farce.
> 
> I don't think you really want to be married to her. I think you just are having a hard time admitting this isn't going to work. You aren't a quitter, and quitting on the marriage rubs you the wrong way. It goes against your nature to quit.
> 
> But sometimes you have to let it go.


wow! ............ :iagree:............:iagree:.......its like your inside my head, a bag o banditos in there gathering thoughts and writing them down so I can see! 

I think flaco and his boys where there, they were pushing buttons. we were biting our tongues........it was, a time to run, moment!


----------



## LongWalk

bandit.45 said:


> Stay out of latino bars. They hate gringos because they think their women will dump them for rich white boys.
> 
> I nearly got myself killed in Nacozari, Sonora once, by making the mistake of talking to a Mexican girl at a bar one night. I was 19 and an idiot and wasn't thinking. Next thing I know Flaco and five of his compadres were standing around me ready to tear me limb from limb.
> 
> There's a time to stand up for yourself and then there is a time to run.
> 
> I ran.


So, this Mexicanization of the Southwestern states is not going to lead to peace, harmony and multicultural love?


----------



## LongWalk

stallion1 said:


> wow! ............ :iagree:............:iagree:.......its like your inside my head, a bag o banditos in there gathering thoughts and writing them down so I can see!
> 
> I think flaco and his boys where there, they were pushing buttons. we were biting our tongues........it was, a time to run, moment!


Your wife is doesn't know what she wants. Just stay steady and protect yourself. In time you will know what to do. It will simply become apparent to you.


----------



## Ceegee

bandit.45 said:


> Stay out of latino bars. They hate gringos because they think their women will dump them for rich white boys.


Well, they are right.


----------



## stallion1

back to the hotel............

tonight at dinner, we went out together for the first time in six weeks, she asked me if I wanted to come watch a movie with her at her new place. She cant move in till june. I said no thanks. she asked if I wanted to see pictures of it. I said no, its nothing I want to be involved with.

later I brought up the hotel situation. The bag in her room was from a Hampton inn. The paper I have is a resort on the beach. her name, her card, on her bank statement. two people one night. The Hampton inn is on her card as well two days later.................I asked her about the Hampton in and how was it..............no problem. then I asked her, why not stay somewhere on the beach. she said the didn't ever have time to go to the beach. I said oh that's to bad, you should have stayed somewhere by the beach when you were down there. It would have been a nice time for you. She said maybe but the hotel I was at was no where near the beach..... and we wouldn't have had time to do anything with the beach anyways.... ok!

do I drop the receipt on her? if I do it will make her furious. she will say im spying. she will make excuses etc. I don't really care how she acts, just wondering what I do with the info I have.


----------



## happy as a clam

Wow Stallion... she gives a whole new meaning to "Sex on the Beach." Definitely sounds like a hookup to me.


----------



## arbitrator

stallion1 said:


> back to the hotel............
> 
> tonight at dinner, we went out together for the first time in six weeks, she asked me if I wanted to come watch a movie with her at her new place. She cant move in till june. I said no thanks. she asked if I wanted to see pictures of it. I said no, its nothing I want to be involved with.
> 
> later I brought up the hotel situation. The bag in her room was from a Hampton inn. The paper I have is a resort on the beach. her name, her card, on her bank statement. two people one night. The Hampton inn is on her card as well two days later.................I asked her about the Hampton in and how was it..............no problem. then I asked her, why not stay somewhere on the beach. she said the didn't ever have time to go to the beach. I said oh that's to bad, you should have stayed somewhere by the beach when you were down there. It would have been a nice time for you. She said maybe but the hotel I was at was no where near the beach..... and we wouldn't have had time to do anything with the beach anyways.... ok!
> 
> *Do I drop the receipt on her?* if I do it will make her furious. she will say im spying. she will make excuses etc. I don't really care how she acts, just wondering what I do with the info I have.


*Hell, yes! You drop the receipt and anything else that is tangible on her! And you can bet your sweet a$$ that if the shoe were on the other foot, that she'd fastly drop that very same receipt on you!

Rid yourself of that scourge, pronto!*


----------



## Chuck71

if you have all the intel you could possibly get about the Hampton

yes......drop it on her. But.....in your post, she said:

"maybe but the hotel I was at was no where near the beach and we wouldn't have had time to do anything with the beach anyways"

I would question her about this before dropping the receipts 

see what her response is.... if it is not to your suffice

drop the proof, look her in the eyes, smile, turn, walk out the door


----------



## LongWalk

She wants to have sex with you but simply to regain control. She should be wanting to be home.


----------



## Ceegee

You just installed a key-logger correct?

I would have dropped the receipt on her the minute you caught her in the lie. Since you didn't, wait to see what you get from the key-logger. 

You want to have as much as possible when you confront.


----------



## cbnero

So she stayed 2 nights at the hotel or just 1?

Look man here is my 2 cents...

File D. Now.

She is so full it. She is cake eating and even though you are doing better you're still letting her lead.

I would not mention the receipt. Save it for now. IMO it is best to not reveal anything at all. Especially since you just got the keylog going. I know it is difficult but if you say anything you will drive it further underground or create more animosity.

Who cares what she is doing anymore. Start making the moves I mentioned earlier. Ignore her, be happy, and start moving on with your life without her.

Let her play catch up and see how she likes it. If she cares at all she will. If she doesnt then you save yourself from more drama and arguing. She isnt worth it bro.

I was in similar position and I called her to the carpet. She might say what you want to hear but it wont break her completely. So what's the point?

Save the receipt. Move on!!!

Best advice I can give you.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## LongWalk

Don't confront with just the receipt. You need to keep going with the 180. Your ability to move on is making you more attractive. Will it be enough to save your relationship, IDK.

Every time you manage to joke and make her laugh, even if it is at herself, your sex ranking goes up.

What was the purpose of the construction project? What does the investor expect to make money from? Start getting customers in and making money. Don't tell you WW/WAW about it. Let her discover it.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> So, this Mexicanization of the Southwestern states is not going to lead to peace, harmony and multicultural love?


I got no problem with Mexicans. Grew up with them and around them. Many of my best friends are Mexican-American. There is alot to like about the culture and some things not to like... just like white culture.

But I also understand male Latino machismo, and the latent fear many Mexican men have of white guys stealing their women. Its bad enought they have to work for white bosses and be relegated to second class citizens, so when you start schmoozing their women.... that's just going too far.


----------



## bandit.45

Hold off on confronting her with the hotel reciept thing until the divorce agreement is signed and she's locked in.


----------



## LongWalk

Bandit, 
I guess every group has its insecurities.
Social staus, wealth, penis size, education, musicality, no one has it all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Horse,

She can feel you detaching with self respect. She has doubts.

Have you made up divorce settlement to get a fair share out of your business?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> Bandit,
> I guess every group has its insecurities.
> Social staus, wealth, penis size, education, musicality, no one has it all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


pop always told me "there's a paddle for everyones a$$"

pop was about 17, in late 50's...car meant status

he drove the showroom cars, got more headd than beauty shop

on Saturday. Zoomed past a row of cars after church. When he

came home...same as usual. His dad quietly grabbed the keys.

Later same day, "dad where are the keys to the car" 

his dad..."remember when you hot rodded past that line of

cars.....ya momma and me were one of the cars you passed"

Chuck's pop wasn't popular the two weeks he rode a bike to 

school


----------



## stallion1

haven't gotten that far with the lawyer yet. Im discussing the issues with a lawyer who cannot represent me because the firm represents the business. I am talking with this person as a friend. She has been a friend since JR. high. she will steer me in the right direction. as for the business, the investor has set it up as all individuals. we each own a certain percentage. we each have a personal guarantee to hold us to the business. he knows what he is doing. He did this a certain way from the start considering divorce was a possibility. He warned me at the beginning that he didn't like I was married to someone and going into business with that person. When I brought up this matter to him said, "I cant fault you for getting a divorce if that's where it goes. If it has an effect on the business, its my fault for breaking my own rules!" he is a very good business man, a very good person, he will not let me off the hook if the business fails but he will always be a friend and someone who has and will educate me for as long as we are both around. So im not worried about that part.

The rest, well ive spent all of my retirement on the business. the wife has continued to grow hers..... do I go after that? I am entitled per state law. but do I want to?

Im still not 100% on if I file now or wait till she leaves. I don't really want to deal with it while she is here. 

its so weird, its like I know what I really want to do but im still looking for that moment of clarity......or maybe im waiting for some sort of solid evidence to prove that its her and not me....then I think, is that the mr nice guy wanting some sort of approval to do something? or approval for me filing for D from everyone else who will find out and not wanting them to see me as the bad guy? I know what it is.....I just need to get there!

I feel like I make progress, then get back into a hole, then make progress............ground hogs day! although it played to bill murray's advantage!


----------



## Conrad

My brother,

If the decision is divorce, you are ruthless.

No questions asked.

What has it gained you to be a "nice guy" and squander your retirement while she contributes nothing?

Could it be that sort of decision making is why she has no respect for you?


----------



## stallion1

Conrad......yes........I can see it. Im working toward no mr nice guy......its tough for me...........ive been that way since forever....I know what I want now, I can see it, feel it......I need to get myself to the point where I can act on it.........it will be a major achievement for me personally.......I just need to get there.

I was reading a thread about a girl who seems to have no self esteem. she wants to get out there and meet people, be more comfortable with herself and who she is but hasn't been able to do it.....I can meet people and put myself out there no problem. I felt like saying just do it, it wont be easy the first second or third time but it will get easier and you will become happy with what you have achieved based on your personal needs and accomplishments. Then I realized that's me, not in the same context, but in my own issues, I need to act on what I believe, feel, want with no shame. it wont be easy this time or the next, but if I know what I want then do it. again and again. It will become easier and easier. it seems, to many of us, that first step is the hardest.


----------



## Ceegee

Get what you can now. If you have second thoughts later you can always give it back. 😄

You're in the stage everyone is in at the beginning of divorce. Attorneys will get involved on both sides. She will go for anything and everything. 

Sounds like you have an S Corp. if so, the business portion will depend on how the contract was written up. You'll likely remain business partners unless your money man wants to but her out. Not likely.


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> haven't gotten that far with the lawyer yet. Im discussing the issues with a lawyer who cannot represent me because the firm represents the business. I am talking with this person as a friend. She has been a friend since JR. high. she will steer me in the right direction. as for the business, the investor has set it up as all individuals. we each own a certain percentage. we each have a personal guarantee to hold us to the business. he knows what he is doing. He did this a certain way from the start considering divorce was a possibility. He warned me at the beginning that he didn't like I was married to someone and going into business with that person. When I brought up this matter to him said, "I cant fault you for getting a divorce if that's where it goes. If it has an effect on the business, its my fault for breaking my own rules!" he is a very good business man, a very good person, he will not let me off the hook if the business fails but he will always be a friend and someone who has and will educate me for as long as we are both around. So im not worried about that part.
> 
> The rest, well ive spent all of my retirement on the business. the wife has continued to grow hers..... do I go after that? I am entitled per state law. but do I want to?
> 
> Im still not 100% on if I file now or wait till she leaves. I don't really want to deal with it while she is here.
> 
> its so weird, its like I know what I really want to do but im still looking for that moment of clarity......or maybe im waiting for some sort of solid evidence to prove that its her and not me....then I think, is that the mr nice guy wanting some sort of approval to do something? or approval for me filing for D from everyone else who will find out and not wanting them to see me as the bad guy? I know what it is.....I just need to get there!
> 
> I feel like I make progress, then get back into a hole, then make progress............ground hogs day! although it played to bill murray's advantage!


Do you think she'll love you more because you are "nice"?

The opposite is true.

Being "nice" (doormat) makes you completely unattractive.


----------



## Ceegee

stallion1 said:


> Conrad......yes........I can see it. Im working toward no mr nice guy......its tough for me...........ive been that way since forever....I know what I want now, I can see it, feel it......I need to get myself to the point where I can act on it.........it will be a major achievement for me personally.......I just need to get there.



This is why this is happening. 

You are learning to not be a nice guy. 

It's a tough lesson to learn but why many of us are here. 

Learn it. Find a great woman and you'll be happy. 

Trust me on this.


----------



## stallion1

ceegee, money guy wants to make business work but will pull the plug if he sees it as his best option. he wont push her out. business is business. Contracts are bullet proof on this one....for the investor.... I may have to pay consequence if things go bad, but ive told him I have always held true to my responsibilities.....

on our personal assets, she would try and fight. I will be the one who files,, just the way she is.........she will use this against me.......I know its why she wont file, she wants me to, in order to say, he filed not me. then she will fight for money, again making me the bad guy, however she has all the savings at this point and our state is 50/50 so I win. Then she will again use this to point out im the bad guy.

I know im not. I have to get over what others think. No more mr nice guy, right! again...........hard to get there after so long.............working on it....getting closer, making progress.


----------



## LongWalk

Conrad and company are right. You do not p!ss away your pension in some act of manly pride. You go for half her 401K. Half her share of the business. She can for half of yours.

You should read Struggle's thread. She is a young woman who loves horses. She went into business with her stbxh and poured herself into it while he was irresponsible. She is very pretty but lacks confidence. She needed to set boundaries.


----------



## cbnero

How are you feeling about all this? Sounds like you're stuck in the mud, not getting anywhere.

Are you prepared to do nothing as she makes her plans? 

The next time she says she is moving out I'd ask her to please repeat it. Then have her served. 

You cant win this way. The first one to let go first wins. 

As a close friend once told me during my fallout, "She has you swinging from an 800 foot long tampon string."

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

cbnero said:


> How are you feeling about all this? Sounds like you're stuck in the mud, not getting anywhere.
> 
> Are you prepared to do nothing as she makes her plans?
> 
> The next time she says she is moving out I'd ask her to please repeat it. Then have her served.
> 
> You cant win this way. The first one to let go first wins.
> 
> As a close friend once told me during my fallout, "She has you swinging from an 800 foot long tampon string."
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


CB, I don't want to be swinging from that! There has been some mud but ive got a 4x4! I am getting somewhere. I know where I was, where I am, and where im going. trust me I am getting somewhere, Its only been a few weeks since you enlightened me! Feel ive been making some personal progress. Cant happen over night. 

I know I want a D. no matter what she does at this point, considering it would be a miracle for her to want to change who she is, 

She wont file, she wants me on the 800ft string. 

The mud im in now: I will have to file based on what I want as an individual. I know she will pin everything on me, and im worried about what people will think or how they will portray me in this. I also know I shouldnt worry about that. I know why and im working on it.

I know where I need to be, I am working on getting there.


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> CB, I don't want to be swinging from that! There has been some mud but ive got a 4x4! I am getting somewhere. I know where I was, where I am, and where im going. trust me I am getting somewhere, Its only been a few weeks since you enlightened me! Feel ive been making some personal progress. Cant happen over night.
> 
> I know I want a D. no matter what she does at this point, considering it would be a miracle for her to want to change who she is,
> 
> She wont file, she wants me on the 800ft string.
> 
> The mud im in now: I will have to file based on what I want as an individual. I know she will pin everything on me, and im worried about what people will think or how they will portray me in this. I also know I shouldnt worry about that. I know why and im working on it.
> 
> I know where I need to be, I am working on getting there.


People are going to blame you?

What people?


----------



## stallion1

my current fear is I know she wont file and it will be me. I know she talks to her family and mutual friends and makes it seem like its about her and what she needs. I know these people agree that maybe its good for her to move out and take some time. I feel like, when I file, they will see me as not being supportive, or giving her time to "figure" things out.

I see these thoughts as the person I used to be and feel like im inbetween then and where I need to be................but I know where I need to be.

so I worry but then i think about it and I don't worry....personal limbo?


----------



## tom67

stallion1 said:


> my current fear is I know she wont file and it will be me. I know she talks to her family and mutual friends and makes it seem like its about her and what she needs. I know these people agree that maybe its good for her to move out and take some time. I feel like, when I file, they will see me as not being supportive, or giving her time to "figure" things out.
> 
> I see these thoughts as the person I used to be and feel like im inbetween then and where I need to be................but I know where I need to be.
> 
> so I worry but then i think about it and I don't worry....personal limbo?


Then let them know the rest of the story.
You will find out who the real friends are and who are as phony as a 3 dollar bill.


----------



## cbnero

You have been mostly working on how you respond to her actions. Why not take the lead on some stuff now? Lots of options
- start sleeping elsewhere like your sisters or my place if you need, a few nights a week. Dont give her any heads up or explanations to your whereabouts. Refuse to discuss it.
- get those phone plans separated
- if she stays at a friends a few nights, great. Get all new bedding on your bed. Borrow a set if you can
- get a new outfit, shave, cologne
- be happy
- dont engage at all anymore. She aint biting or changing. Stay away from her. Get out of there whenever possible

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## LongWalk

Your WW or WAW is deeply conflicted. you have been trying to make her happy for a long time and it has not worked. This is her character. She sees things from the negative side. She has been blaming you for her unhappiness, but she also suspects that you are also holding everything together. She cannot manage many aspects of your business and practical life. She hates being dependent on you. 

As you have manned up she has been intrigued. Figuring you out has been a new project. But she has not let her mixed feelings become love for you. She is probably flipping back and forth. At some level she probably has fantasies. A new guy is going to come in replace you and fix everything, including the business.

If she confided in someone smart, they might tell her that the two of you and especially you have done a decent job with the farm. She lacks wisdom among her friends and relatives.

Your marriage is a leaking ship. And you are pumping to keep it afloat while she sabotages it. Of course she wants you to file for divorce so that she is absolved of not working on herself and your marriage. Moving out is an additional provocation.

I would not file for divorce. I would very carefully prepare the settlement. You need to have the hard facts about her pension and assets.

Regarding the hotel receipt: She probably cheated and it may not be the first time. However, your wife doesn't give the impression of being in love with some OM. Going outside of your marriage for sex is more a symptom of her lack of organization, rather than some fundamental dissatisfaction with you in bed.

Don't you think that the business dream was too big for her and her anxiety and impatience have eaten away at her stability? Does she come off as strong while in fact actually being weak?

You should accept her separation as a divorce. I would tell family that she is leaving you. Her choice 100%, not yours. Tell grandma and all the in-laws. It should be a simple message.

Keep going with the business. Were you planning on boarding horses and your WW was to be the trainer? Look for someone to replace her. You and the investor can buy her out. The idea that you could succeed without her will drive her crazy.

Is the marketing plan for this business sound? Are there enough potential customers in the area.

When you wife was loving was she a good person? Is there a good person inside her who lacks direction or is she just a selfish b!tch?


----------



## bandit.45

Great post LongWalk.


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion, when I divorcedI was really worried about what all our mutual friends would think of me. 

You know what? After the divorce I had friends coming up to me shaking my hand, hugging me and telling me I should have divorced that woman years before. 

It was like "What took you so long?" :rofl:

You have more people on your side than you think. Alot of people can see right through your wife's b.s. and they know the score.


----------



## Ceegee

There will also be those who support her now but, after divorce, realize how crazy she really is. 

Holes in her story will begin to show.

Things won't add up.

Those friends will begin to feel used and resent her.

I too felt the way you do when my divorce started. When her friends and family approached me I made the decision to separate myself from them. I told them to just be there for CT (my X).

Now, a year and a half later, some of those friends of hers tell me they can't even stand the sight of her.

And, no one, including CT, can claim that I tainted their opinion of her because I separated myself from them.

Give 'em all the rope they need and they'll hang themselves eventually.


----------



## LongWalk

Horseman,

I read what you wrote on Struggle's thread. It was good. It helps a lot to share with others. Never hurts to connect with the opposite sex on TAM.

From her thread one can see that a smart and attractive woman could pour herself into unhealthy relationships, trying to make them into something that they could not be or at least expending yourself without boundaries will never make an exploitative spouse appreciative. They will only want more and more.

If you go to a horse event get some pictures taken with folks, it will only take a group photo of you with an attractive woman included to set your wife's brain spinning with jealousy. 

Do you have an website for your business?

If you don't, you should develop one. That will also have her in a tizzy. Wordpress is not too hard to learn. But you could easily find help to put something together. Find a website you like and check out the person who created and ask them for a quote. There is probably a lot of competition.

Having a good website will help you to concentrate on getting the business going.


----------



## stallion1

LongWalk said:


> Your WW or WAW is deeply conflicted. you have been trying to make her happy for a long time and it has not worked. This is her character. She sees things from the negative side. She has been blaming you for her unhappiness, but she also suspects that you are also holding everything together. She cannot manage many aspects of your business and practical life. She hates being dependent on you.
> 
> As you have manned up she has been intrigued. Figuring you out has been a new project. But she has not let her mixed feelings become love for you. She is probably flipping back and forth. At some level she probably has fantasies. A new guy is going to come in replace you and fix everything, including the business.
> 
> If she confided in someone smart, they might tell her that the two of you and especially you have done a decent job with the farm. She lacks wisdom among her friends and relatives.
> 
> Your marriage is a leaking ship. And you are pumping to keep it afloat while she sabotages it. Of course she wants you to file for divorce so that she is absolved of not working on herself and your marriage. Moving out is an additional provocation.
> 
> I would not file for divorce. I would very carefully prepare the settlement. You need to have the hard facts about her pension and assets.
> 
> Regarding the hotel receipt: She probably cheated and it may not be the first time. However, your wife doesn't give the impression of being in love with some OM. Going outside of your marriage for sex is more a symptom of her lack of organization, rather than some fundamental dissatisfaction with you in bed.
> 
> Don't you think that the business dream was too big for her and her anxiety and impatience have eaten away at her stability? Does she come off as strong while in fact actually being weak? in my opinion, yes
> 
> You should accept her separation as a divorce. I would tell family that she is leaving you. Her choice 100%, not yours. Tell grandma and all the in-laws. It should be a simple message.
> 
> Keep going with the business. Were you planning on boarding horses and your WW was to be the trainer? Look for someone to replace her. You and the investor can buy her out. The idea that you could succeed without her will drive her crazy.
> 
> Is the marketing plan for this business sound? Are there enough potential customers in the area.
> 
> When you wife was loving was she a good person? Is there a good person inside her who lacks direction there is a good person but its buried deep. it will show from time to time but she, I think, sees it as a weekness maybe.
> 
> 
> or is she just a selfish b!tch?


 selfish for sure 
B!tch, she can be, especially to people very close to her.

gotta run, check in later. Thanks all!


----------



## Chuck71

My X always liked to "stretch the truth" so I was certain, she told 

"a few fibs" just about the time we separated and D. Thankfully I did

not think much of most of her friends. When I saw them after the D,

I made a point to walk up to them, Firmly ask about their kids or 

grandkids....not one word about X or what she might have said.

If they were gullable enough to believe what she said without 

weighing both sides or just asking me...fvck them...they're imbeciles.

You admitted you screwed up but s/he admitted to no wrong

and added fuel to the fire. Example: Chuck mistreated me, he 

intentionally caused me worry, I walked on eggshells daily, he 

no longer provided for me. Truth: After helping her get out of debt with

credit cards, I told her.....do it again and it's your mess, not mine. She 

did it again and ..... was appalled I stood by my word. 

True friends will see both sides, tell you that you screwed up

but commend you for owning it. And know who the better person was.

My IC / best friend is one. "You tried for six weeks. You then

grieved for a couple weeks and got up, walked away after 15

years."


----------



## Dedicated2Her

Something funny: I handed my wife divorce papers that listed her as the petitioner. She signed them, and I filed them for her with the court. LOL. Best thing I ever did.....divorce myself.


----------



## Conrad

People here have read the total bullcrap said about me.

Stallion... to this day, it's been just so brutal.....

I just can't stand it


----------



## happy as a clam

Dedicated2Her said:


> Something funny: I handed my wife divorce papers that listed her as the petitioner. She signed them, and I filed them for her with the court. LOL. Best thing I ever did.....divorce myself.


I love this! People get so confused when looking at legal jargon that they're not used to seeing. Who is the "Plaintiff?" Who is the "Defendant?" What is a "Petitioner?" (Haha, who cares?!?! Fooled her...)

This made me laugh... you divorced yourself!

:lol::rofl::lol::rofl:


----------



## stallion1

so I was at the barn this afternoon. the stbxw's mother just said, I am so sorry you have to deal with this!

I just said, well, it is what it is.............


the stbxw has called me 7 times from her work....she is also a nurse. ive ignored these calls. I usually answer thinking its barn related but certain its not otherwise she would leave a message.....I have finally gotten to this point!

her mom also told me she didn't get the apartment she wanted.

I listened to the var from in her room. long story short, she made calls to look at multiple apartments. she sent a text to someone saying........hey friend, I may soon be your neighbor, I need a life change and am looking at apartments by you.......!

Life change? you got it! I feel like how ive started acting, 180, no more mr nice guy, etc., was the reason she was being pleasant. Now I know its her trying to have her cake and eat it to.............oh shes calling again......Im not plan B.....I havnt heard her talk like this for awhile so I thought maybe she was coming around......yea right!

kind of like a three strikes your out, or 100 strikes your out, in my situation.

either way, ive known what to do for awhile, ive kept looking for that certain something to put me over the edge. I know that she wont change, she wont love me the way I want her to. I know that I deserve better and I want more. I'm so happy to be moving in the direction I am. This is just a big hurdle I need to jump in order to get there. I don't need to know anything else but what I want in life..............Im continuing to work on me............ I can see a bright future.... why should I wait anymore to start!!!!


----------



## cbnero

Stand up completely now. Own your decisions, dont backpedal. No need for more arguments, no point in engaging her ever again.

Now is time for full NC for your sake. Not hers. Have the B served. Anything she has to tell you can go through your attorney. 

Sorry man. Wish it had worked out, but be proud of how far you've come with everything the past month.

Dont look back, better days ahead. Maybe get yourself in IC, it will still take it's toll.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> so I was at the barn this afternoon. the stbxw's mother just said, I am so sorry you have to deal with this!
> 
> I just said, well, it is what it is.............
> 
> 
> the stbxw has called me 7 times from her work....she is also a nurse. ive ignored these calls. I usually answer thinking its barn related but certain its not otherwise she would leave a message.....I have finally gotten to this point!
> 
> her mom also told me she didn't get the apartment she wanted.
> 
> I listened to the var from in her room. long story short, she made calls to look at multiple apartments. she sent a text to someone saying........hey friend, I may soon be your neighbor, I need a life change and am looking at apartments by you.......!
> 
> Life change? you got it! I feel like how ive started acting, 180, no more mr nice guy, etc., was the reason she was being pleasant. Now I know its her trying to have her cake and eat it to.............oh shes calling again......Im not plan B.....I havnt heard her talk like this for awhile so I thought maybe she was coming around......yea right!
> 
> kind of like a three strikes your out, or 100 strikes your out, in my situation.
> 
> either way, ive known what to do for awhile, ive kept looking for that certain something to put me over the edge. I know that she wont change, she wont love me the way I want her to. I know that I deserve better and I want more. I'm so happy to be moving in the direction I am. This is just a big hurdle I need to jump in order to get there. I don't need to know anything else but what I want in life..............Im continuing to work on me............ I can see a bright future.... why should I wait anymore to start!!!!


If you are angry, act on it.

Use your righteous anger to fuel your future.

Do something.


----------



## happyman64

Stallion

Amazing what you hear on a VAR when they don't know they are being recorded.....

That is your real wife.

It sucks.
It is hurtful.

Just use that info and act on it.

Serve her. That does not make you the bad guy.

It just shows that you respect yourself and can no longer allow your wife to continue to disrespect you...

HM


----------



## LongWalk

But HappyMan, his wife is trying to goad him into being the one who seeks divorce. Shouldn't she have to take responsibility?

Horseman,

If your wife moves out, I don't see why you shouldn't see other women even if it's just for coffee.

You did not answer questions about the business. Are your fed up with realizing her dream? You have put a lot on the line here, so you need to be rational on the business side of things.


----------



## stallion1

LongWalk said:


> But HappyMan, his wife is trying to goad him into being the one who seeks divorce. Shouldn't she have to take responsibility?
> 
> Horseman,
> 
> If your wife moves out, I don't see why you shouldn't see other women even if it's just for coffee.
> 
> You did not answer questions about the business. Are your fed up with realizing her dream? You have put a lot on the line here, so you need to be rational on the business side of things.


she will never take the responsibility. I will have to. maybe pull the Dedicated2her, move!

The business could be solid. In the next weeks there is a meeting with the four partners. Big changes are coming. If not agreed to then I think the investor is done. There will be some not so happy faces that day. I am going to have fingers pointed at me by the other trainer (who is going to have to make the biggest changes) the stbx will not say much cause she cant handle confrontation with people besides those closest to her. I know whats going to be said, Ill inform the investor, Ill say what I have to, he will do what he wants from there. 

I would never just walk away from that. I can handle it with her being there. I don't have to see her much. I don't have to be "liked" anymore by these people, so I am able to see the whole business more clearly, and act accordingly. Who has ever seen the NICE guy in the business be the most successful.
and im not angry for what the stbx is acting like so then im going to be angry at the business and make it miserable.....just, NMMrNG. I'll be at peace knowing I did what I thought was best for this business....


----------



## stallion1

cbnero said:


> Stand up completely now. Own your decisions, dont backpedal. No need for more arguments, no point in engaging her ever again.
> 
> Now is time for full NC for your sake. Not hers. Have the B served. Anything she has to tell you can go through your attorney.
> 
> Sorry man. Wish it had worked out, but be proud of how far you've come with everything the past month.
> 
> Dont look back, better days ahead. Maybe get yourself in IC, it will still take it's toll.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Thanks buddy! Ignored 8 calls and two texts last night. She came up to me this morning very upset, why didn't you answer your phone, didn't you get my calls? me.....nope.......but what could be so important that you called so many times.

She had some bs gossip! 

Yep, ill tell her to leave me a message, if its important.

Conrad, I will Do something!


----------



## LongWalk

She is being pulled in different directions. Stay steady. Concentrate on what is real, the business. 

By not answering to phone to reassure her that her that you are there she is discovering the depth of her dependence on you while are discovering the depth of her unreliability. If you do file for divorce, it will speed up the process. Perhaps it is an important signal that she can f' around with you?

You have little to risk in pulling the trigger. 

You mention another trainer. Is it a woman? A friend of your wife's? Are the two of them working with horses or students? Or both? Is there already income?


----------



## cbnero

Definitely take the lead on filing. This isnt about proving a point. It is about standing up for yourself. Why let a crazy person who hates you take the lead on your future?

Only show her happiness now. But no more conversations. If she starts in just say "I'm busy at the moment I'll talk to you later." Then leave. Come over here if you need to, dont care if its 3 am.

Be kind to her, just indifferent. Kind and disconnected will bother her much more than you getting hurt or angry and engaging, which is what she wants.

She has fired you from being her supportive half. So stop supporting. 180 hard, NMMMNG

If she starts in and wont leave you alone, set a firm boundary. "Going forward, please only talk to me if it's related to the farm." Be happy and kind and calm when you say it. Not condescending.

You got this.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Dedicated2Her

Let me clarify on why I put her as the petitioner. My ex, much like your's, kept talking about how she wanted a divorce. I don't want to be married....blah, blah, blah. 2 years of this nonsense even after I made a tremendous amount of changes. However, she wouldn't do anything about it. She wouldn't do joint therapy. (well, she would but she would just sit there and not do any of the homework or actively participate in the session) AND, she wouldn't take any steps to file. WELL, here you go b!tch. You want your divorce, you got it. My one condition is that I was the defendant.....because, I [email protected] fricking was. Give the defiant what they want and watch them screw up their lives. Good riddance. My life has NEVER been better.

And, I agree with cbnero. Be nice, happy......but very businesslike. I can tell you crazy stories about watching the defiant crash and burn. Still happening every day. CRAZY.


----------



## bandit.45

Sorry to hear she's been stepping out on you Stallion. Do what the others have said. Be strong even though it stings. You are doing great.


----------



## bandit.45

Stallion how are you doing man?


----------



## cbnero

We spoke on the phone earlier this evening. She is ping-ponging all over the place much more frequently from the sounds of it. Sounds like it is about to reach full boil.

But he is hanging in there. I pitched a new diabolical plan that I hope stallion agrees to implement.

Right now he is babysitting her 3 dogs while she eats cake. The house is included as part of the lease the farm business pays for each month. So there isnt a separate lease for the living quarters with stallion and crazy horse on it.

My suggestion is for him to bail the heck out of there and come crash in the 1700 sq ft basement at my place. No warning to her. She comes home and wham - he is gone. She is stuck with the dogs and the constant farm drama. 

My reasoning is that if she moves out he is stuck with the dogs. Stuck with her having access to his home anytime at the farm. Stuck with her seeing his activities moving forward with guests, going out, etc...

Since the home is included in the business, he wouldnt be sticking her with additional bills assuming any additional lease payments - there is none.

He can crash with me as long as he needs. No toxic environment (minus the consumption of beers). He would be free. She would not.

Who knows what would happen within a day, week, month of this happening. Quit waiting on her and her constant threats and insane behavior. 

Freedom now.

Thoughts on this plan?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## LongWalk

How far away is your place?


----------



## cbnero

20 minutes maybe

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

I hate you heard what you did

but it will be what pushes you to do what's necessary 

the phone calls..... can you block her #

get a cheap "bytch phone", only she knows the #

let every call go to VM

pull up your anchor, bring in the fishing lines, set sail away

you are writing a new novel, Nurse Nimrod is not a character

you are not the first, or the thirtieth, I have read on here about

having a W who is a nurse and.... completely lost

my 2nd love was a nurse, her mom was, her mom's mom (she was sane though)

they want to help others but can't even help themselves

many were lost since their childhood but put on an excellent 

temporary mask

Conrad's dealt with nurses a number of years, he can add to this

Babylon A.D. - Hammer Swings Down - YouTube


----------



## happy as a clam

> Thoughts on this plan?


CB,

I like your plan a lot. I think it would do Stallion a world of good to get away from her.

It would be instant "freedom" for him in that she would no longer be able to monitor his every move and continue to play head games by popping in and out of the house.

I hope he takes you up on the offer.


----------



## bandit.45

cbnero said:


> 20 minutes maybe
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I think thats a great idea. Good of you to offer that to him. Stallion needs to get away from her and her drama. He needs to decompress and soar back up to 50,000.


----------



## cbnero

He can come crash here and we will do manly stuff like watch American Idol and The Good Wife.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## happy as a clam

cbnero said:


> He can come crash here and we will do manly stuff like watch American Idol and The Good Wife.


Ooooh..... that sounds fun CB! Can I come too?!

:lol:


----------



## Chuck71

cbnero said:


> He can come crash here and we will do manly stuff like watch American Idol and The Good Wife.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


check out the classic "A Streetwalker named Desire"


----------



## bandit.45

cbnero said:


> He can come crash here and we will do manly stuff like watch American Idol and The Good Wife.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


...eat brie with crackers...

No.

Titty bar.


----------



## cbnero

Here we go... WhhheeeEEEEEEeeeeewwwwww!!!!!!

http://youtu.be/Ylv89_oCCjE

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Here we go... WhhheeeEEEEEEeeeeewwwwww!!!!!!
> 
> Rocky and Apollo at the Beach - YouTube
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Has horse man accepted?

Or, is he going to impersonate another part of the horse?


----------



## cbnero

He said he was heading out of town for the weekend but was pretty warm to the idea. 

I can think of nothing finer than the look on crazy horse's face when she realizes he isnt sticking around for more abuse. I think it would help him to treat the farm like any other job/business. Get him out so he can clear his mind. 

From the VAR and keylog it sounds like she made up her mind and is just stringing him along.

Also on a personal note, I would like to put a 2x4 across the forehead of any of the so-called "friends" of people out there who are not pro-marriage/pro-family. Like snakes you never find out where they are until they strike, then they slither away unharmed.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> He said he was heading out of town for the weekend but was pretty warm to the idea.
> 
> I can think of nothing finer than the look on crazy horse's face when she realizes he isnt sticking around for more abuse. I think it would help him to treat the farm like any other job/business. Get him out so he can clear his mind.
> 
> From the VAR and keylog it sounds like she made up her mind and is just stringing him along.
> 
> Also on a personal note, I would like to put a 2x4 across the forehead of any of the so-called "friends" of people out there who are not pro-marriage/pro-family. Like snakes you never find out where they are until they strike, then they slither away unharmed.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Sounds like you have additional data.


----------



## cbnero

Not a ton, but I know crazy horse has a couple toxic friends supporting her decisions.

The Ayatollah had 1 friend and her mom that were just as bad. And of course she wouldnt see a MC or IC to think it through. Who needs that when you can get biased advice from your friends? Lol

If there's an OM and a couple toxic friends, there is no hope.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Not a ton, but I know crazy horse has a couple toxic friends supporting her decisions.
> 
> The Ayatollah had 1 friend and her mom that were just as bad. And of course she wouldnt see a MC or IC to think it through. Who needs that when you can get biased advice from your friends? Lol
> 
> If there's an OM and a couple toxic friends, there is no hope.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Been there - done that.

The toxic friend is now history.

But, what a long strange trip that was.


----------



## cbnero

Well my toxic MIL is now no longer my MIL and her friend exited my life with the Ayatollah. Thats 2 false friends and 1 false wife I no longer need to worry about. 

Geez I miss them... bahahaha

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

well, as of this morning, "crazy horse" asked where are we at. I said she had done nothing or said anything different then she wanted out.

she said bs, I asked what and if I missed something, I got no real answer! surprised?

she said she cant find an apt she wants and its expensive!!!!!! So maybe she wouldn't move out!

ok!

Option1..... CB's charity home (which has a racecar bed!)

Option2...... stay here and get bucked off crazy horse over and over

option 3..... CB's charity home (which has a racecar bed!)

so there are a couple ways I could go!

Ive got plans for the weekend. Lots of fun. Birthday party's, bands, and of course Bar Bingo.

I will give you a shout in a bit cb.

Conrad, I will not have anything to do with that part of the horse although I have been known to pull off the "donkey" move which is a crowd favorite.

CB im sure you seen it, if not from me from my mentor on moves.. our other recently divorced friend!


----------



## stallion1

CB, just watched your u tube video....

did you want a hug, a tummy bump maybe!

reconsidering you trying to have me stay there and fill me with beer!

I heard Apollo has a horse..... fill in the blank.

Conrad I hope you weren't referring to this!


----------



## bandit.45

My vote is for the racecar bed.

Have fun this weekend Stallion.


----------



## happy as a clam

I vote for the race car bed in CB's basement!


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> well, as of this morning, "crazy horse" asked where are we at. I said she had done nothing or said anything different then she wanted out.
> 
> she said bs, I asked what and if I missed something, I got no real answer! surprised?
> 
> she said she cant find an apt she wants and its expensive!!!!!! So maybe she wouldn't move out!
> 
> ok!
> 
> Option1..... CB's charity home (which has a racecar bed!)
> 
> Option2...... stay here and get bucked off crazy horse over and over
> 
> option 3..... CB's charity home (which has a racecar bed!)
> 
> so there are a couple ways I could go!
> 
> Ive got plans for the weekend. Lots of fun. Birthday party's, bands, and of course Bar Bingo.
> 
> I will give you a shout in a bit cb.
> 
> Conrad, I will not have anything to do with that part of the horse although I have been known to pull off the "donkey" move which is a crowd favorite.
> 
> CB im sure you seen it, if not from me from my mentor on moves.. our other recently divorced friend!


She sounds really really weak.

It likely would be possible to emotionally overpower her if you are interested.


----------



## cbnero

Haha my 6 year old may have a problem with some grizzly bear passed out in his bed!

Basement bedroom is open, but the Ayatollah took the bed with her, so thats the only thing you need to bring. Otherwise couches, tv, ping pong table, weights, treadmill, sega genesis with NHL 94, and Diet Coors are here and waiting. Put the rest of the stuff you want to take in storage, because once you leave she may start burning it. Lol

The Raging Cajun Club aka sniffers row is only 8 miles away.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## cbnero

You are welcome to come here, but I do agree with Conrad. IMO she is begging for you to save her.

Is there any way to get an earpiece in stallions ear and have conrad on the other end feeding him the lines?

It seems like she keeps asking him for updates. In lieu of the earpiece, can we try writing a script for him to follow? Even learning a couple chords and a few riffs on the guitar can make you sound good to someone who doesnt know anything. I feel like this is as close to being saved as it is to being over. Just my 2 cents.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> You are welcome to come here, but I do agree with Conrad. IMO she is begging for you to save her.
> 
> Is there any way to get an earpiece in stallions ear and have conrad on the other end feeding him the lines?
> 
> It seems like she keeps asking him for updates. In lieu of the earpiece, can we try writing a script for him to follow? Even learning a couple chords and a few riffs on the guitar can make you sound good to someone who doesnt know anything. I feel like this is as close to being saved as it is to being over. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


What is it that he wants?

Here's how I see it:

1) He has a problem with boundary setting. That's how he got here

2) Now that he's showing backbone, she's intrigued

3) If he can deal with some crazy, he can have some mighty hot sex and work on boundary setting with her and take the temperature of the relationship in 3-6 months and decide.

Option #2:

1) If he's simply had his b.s. quotient, why drag it out?

2) He can move into the basement of his stud best buddy and sleep in the car

3) You guys can have a blast and help each other work on yourselves and find more suitable companions going forward


There's something to be said for each option.

-He didn't get in this situation by accident, so he has issues to work on and who is a more ideal candidate as you test your new wings? What do you have to lose?

-Going dark and leaving her in the dust can lead to a fun life of good times, but some not so fun financial times as you have to shut down what's already been built.

It really does depend on what he wants.


----------



## cbnero

No direct link to an OM yet. Me personally? I'd be manning up on the NMMNG and MMSLP and take what is rightfully mine by virtue of her vows and tell her there wont be any more talk of separating for the next 2 weeks. And as of now we are back hot and heavy. How ya like me now! Then laugh like an evil genius and as I walk away call back to her and tell her to get her azz in the shower because we are going out for dinner in 30 minutes. Then later... we are going to bang.

Some serious confidence, humor, and boundaries might go a long ways.

Remember George Costanza and do the opposite.
If you can stay happy and funny and defuse and control your own emotions while confidently communicating what you want from her, she may disarm.

I know your heart may be into bailing, but if it's going to end anyways then whats it going to hurt to play around a bit before it happens? You have nothing to lose. And that type of man is very attractive to women.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Ceegee

cbnero said:


> Haha my 6 year old may have a problem with some grizzly bear passed out in his bed!
> 
> Basement bedroom is open, but the Ayatollah took the bed with her, so thats the only thing you need to bring. Otherwise couches, tv, ping pong table, weights, treadmill, sega genesis with NHL 94, and Diet Coors are here and waiting. Put the rest of the stuff you want to take in storage, because once you leave she may start burning it. Lol
> 
> The Raging Cajun Club aka sniffers row is only 8 miles away.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Can I move in too?

I'm having a party for my girlfriends birthday tonight. Lots of hot single women. 

This will be your life if you choose. 

It could also be what snaps cray horse back into reality. 

Y'all want pics?


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> She sounds really really weak.
> 
> 
> 
> It likely would be possible to emotionally overpower her if you are interested.



I was thinking same thing. 

Low hanging fruit came to mind.


----------



## cbnero

Yes tell these single women there are wounded men who need to see pics. Quit hoarding the babes.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Ceegee

My head hurts.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Ceegee said:


> My head hurts.


Life is good!


----------



## cbnero

Look at all that potential drama...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

I had an epic weekend! Lots of fun. Now im paying for it with a monster hangover.

I texted crazy horse Friday and told her to take care of the dogs this weekend. she didn't like that. I said please and thank you. at first she said no and I just said ok but I wont be home to do it so she should figure it out.

Saw her for a couple minutes sat. she asked lots of questions about where I was and what I did. Where there girls there?...yes lots of girls........very attractive too. She said not as attractive as I am though, right? Im pretty hot! I said, yes you are and you know it! She didn't get it.

Normally I would get yelled at if I go out with friends and over indulge. which doesn't happen very often. She was super nice this whole weekend. Let me be. Didn't call too many times. She was very nice this afternoon. I didn't say much.

I feel like she wants things to go back to normal sometimes. our normal doesn't work for me anymore. Would it be weird to give her a list of what I need from her in order to consider R.
Or is that just me searching for something I know wont happen. almost another reason to build up my confidence to file and know im making the right decision.

cb ill call you tomorrow!


----------



## helolover

Don't give her any lists. Let it ride.


----------



## bandit.45

I think....

She wants you to go out with other women because she has a man on the side. That way she can cheat and not feel guilty about it. 

She wants an open marriage. That's why she's being so nice.


----------



## sandc

Give her an open marriage, open the door and walk out.


----------



## tom67

sandc said:


> Give her an open marriage, open the door and walk out.



nice


----------



## sandc

tom67 said:


> nice


It's a gift I must share with the world, Tom.


----------



## tom67

:rofl::lol:
Here watch my late car on fire saturday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xy0tRcml4U

This really happened
One of the cops said you'll be on youtube


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: bucked off*



tom67 said:


> :rofl::lol:
> Here watch my late car on fire saturday.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xy0tRcml4U
> 
> This really happened
> One of the cops said you'll be on youtube


??? WTH? How did that happen?

/end thread hijack


----------



## stallion1

Conrad said:


> What is it that he wants?
> 
> Here's how I see it:
> 
> 1) He has a problem with boundary setting. That's how he got here
> 
> 2) Now that he's showing backbone, she's intrigued
> 
> 3) If he can deal with some crazy, he can have some mighty hot sex and work on boundary setting with her and take the temperature of the relationship in 3-6 months and decide.
> 
> Option #2:
> 
> 1) If he's simply had his b.s. quotient, why drag it out?
> 
> 2) He can move into the basement of his stud best buddy and sleep in the car
> 
> 3) You guys can have a blast and help each other work on yourselves and find more suitable companions going forward
> 
> 
> There's something to be said for each option.
> 
> -He didn't get in this situation by accident, so he has issues to work on and who is a more ideal candidate as you test your new wings? What do you have to lose?
> 
> -Going dark and leaving her in the dust can lead to a fun life of good times, but some not so fun financial times as you have to shut down what's already been built.
> 
> It really does depend on what he wants.


It used to be clear what I wanted.....Marriage. Now I don't know. 

I like where im headed personally. And know that if she doesn't change as well it wont work. 

I do have boundry setting issues. Working on it.

She opened up this morning. She has a hard time with this. She said lets schedule MC once a week! I said ok but if your not open to improving yourself then its a waste of time. (noting I am doing the same). She agreed.

She still wants to move out for a bit. Not being gone all the time but needs to get away once in a while! She talked about why.....she was raised on this farm, has some of its own issues, we bought it together then we brought in the investor to build the new one. She hasn't lived anywhere else. She feels stuck. She is at odds with the other trainer, her father who likes to visit here in the summer for a couple months. These people control her. She is at the barn all day till 8 or 9pm most days. 

I see it as her running away but understand that she has lived and breathed this place forever and may want time away. I don't agree that moving is the right way to deal with her issues. Its incredible she wants to go to counseling and hope she does some IC as well. She said she wants to start over, and I can stay with her at the new place. She wants counseling, us to start going on "dates" and go from there.

I told her I see this as her doing what she needs to for her. However It sounds like she is able to do whatever and expecting me to be kept hanging on a string.

I agree she needs to find her way. I am happy for her that she is considering doing this. She has never admitted until today that she needs to work on her.

I am not sure I agree with how she is going about it.

So back to what I want............not sure. She wanted my approval to move out for a while. I just said that has to be your decision. If I had said no she would not move but im sure I would be resented for that.

In a way im almost ok with her moving at this point. I didn't want to tell her that she needed to stay. 

I feel like I should give MC an effort.

A month ago I would've jumped all over it. Now im like,, ahh well, whatever.

I think I need to see her putting the effort in. If I go to MC with her, she is moved out, etc. I think I will get that certain decision making revelation im looking for based on how it goes.

I feel like im back and forth more than she is right now.

ok people, lets have it!


----------



## bandit.45

Your wife is setting you up for the oldest bamboozle there is: 

*When a woman wants to separate physically from her husband it is usually so she can find another man, or she already has a man and wants her privacy to see him.*

No couple can work on their problems while living apart. It just doesn't work. 

She want's to date you once in while, to keep stringing you along giving you hope where there is none. She wants to stay on your good side and hope you will be there for her as plan B so that when or if she gets dumped by the man or men she is seeing, she can always crawl home to your waiting arms.

All those other reasons she gave you for her unhappiness are manure....fresh from the horse's ass. She doesn't want to be married to you anymore, but she is too much of a coward and cake-eater to just come out and admit it. She wants other men for fun and sex while she keeps you around to run the farm. 

That's my opinion. 

If you let her move out you might as well file for D.


----------



## spun

bandit.45 said:


> Your wife is setting you up for the oldest bamboozle there is:
> 
> *When a woman wants to separate physically from her husband it is usually so she can find another man, or she already has a man and wants her privacy to see him.*
> 
> No couple can work on their problems while living apart. It just doesn't work.
> 
> She want's to date you once in while, to keep stringing you along giving you hope where there is none. She wants to stay on your good side and hope you will be there for her as plan B so that when or if she gets dumped by the man or men she is seeing, she can always crawl home to your waiting arms.
> 
> All those other reasons she gave you for her unhappiness are manure....fresh from the horse's ass. She doesn't want to be married to you anymore, but she is too much of a coward and cake-eater to just come out and admit it. She wants other men for fun and sex while she keeps you around to run the farm.
> 
> That's my opinion.
> 
> If you let her move out you might as well file for D.


"I need space..."

"I need to work on myself..."

"I'd like a trial separation..."

And, the all time favorite: "I love you but, I'm not in love with you..."

When you hear any of these phrases, she's shopping for your replacement, or has already found him.

File for the D, Stallion. It may defog her cheating a$$, or force her hand to make the exit she is preparing. Either way, it's the only way forward.


----------



## Conrad

It's a fitness test.



stallion1 said:


> It used to be clear what I wanted.....Marriage. Now I don't know.
> 
> I like where im headed personally. And know that if she doesn't change as well it wont work.
> 
> I do have boundry setting issues. Working on it.
> 
> She opened up this morning. She has a hard time with this. She said lets schedule MC once a week! I said ok but if your not open to improving yourself then its a waste of time. (noting I am doing the same). She agreed.
> 
> She still wants to move out for a bit. Not being gone all the time but needs to get away once in a while! She talked about why.....she was raised on this farm, has some of its own issues, we bought it together then we brought in the investor to build the new one. She hasn't lived anywhere else. She feels stuck. She is at odds with the other trainer, her father who likes to visit here in the summer for a couple months. These people control her. She is at the barn all day till 8 or 9pm most days.
> 
> I see it as her running away but understand that she has lived and breathed this place forever and may want time away. I don't agree that moving is the right way to deal with her issues. Its incredible she wants to go to counseling and hope she does some IC as well. She said she wants to start over, and I can stay with her at the new place. She wants counseling, us to start going on "dates" and go from there.
> 
> I told her I see this as her doing what she needs to for her. However It sounds like she is able to do whatever and expecting me to be kept hanging on a string.
> 
> I agree she needs to find her way. I am happy for her that she is considering doing this. She has never admitted until today that she needs to work on her.
> 
> I am not sure I agree with how she is going about it.
> 
> So back to what I want............not sure. She wanted my approval to move out for a while. I just said that has to be your decision. If I had said no she would not move but im sure I would be resented for that.
> 
> In a way im almost ok with her moving at this point. I didn't want to tell her that she needed to stay.
> 
> I feel like I should give MC an effort.
> 
> A month ago I would've jumped all over it. Now im like,, ahh well, whatever.
> 
> I think I need to see her putting the effort in. If I go to MC with her, she is moved out, etc. I think I will get that certain decision making revelation im looking for based on how it goes.
> 
> I feel like im back and forth more than she is right now.
> 
> ok people, lets have it!


----------



## bandit.45

Have you asked her if she is seeing other men? Let her know that you know she has a guy on the side and wants to move to an apartment near where he lives? 

I would be up front about it. Watch her reaction and see what she does. I bet she would play the fury, anger, "can't believe you are accusing me!" card.


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## Conrad

bandit.45 said:


> Have you asked her if she is seeing other men? Let her know that you know she has a guy on the side and wants to move to an apartment near where he lives?
> 
> I would be up front about it. Watch her reaction and see what she does. I bet she would play the fury, anger, "can't believe you are accusing me!" card.


If you've got solid proof, it's time to bust her.

No more games.


----------



## bandit.45

Conrad said:


> If you've got solid proof, it's time to bust her.
> 
> No more games.


Even if he doesn't have proof, and only a bit of weak evidence, if he plays it right he can make her think he knows more than he actually does. Worst case, judging her reaction will tell him where she stands.


----------



## LongWalk

Your 180 has improved her attitude. 

If she moves out, she is seeking privacy. If she wanted to go to an all women's Christian or Buddhist retreat for a week, ok, there would be space for meditation.

What she wants now is no you, no eyes, no reminder of who she is. If she likes those things, it will increase her desire for separation and divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero

There has been no proof of OM on VAR or keylog on her PC. He cant get her phone to put a keylog on it but she hasnt been texting any OM off the phone records.

I realize there are tons of other ways to hide it, but I have trouble believing she is capable of doing a perfect job of covering it all up.

I think this is either a ONS or MLC.

He must put up boundaries and take control, in my opinion. She is setting him up for failure and destruction.

No proof of OM. He cant make the accusation. 

He needs other options asap.

Her reasons for wanting out of the stressful farm business are understandable. Her reasons for leaving him are not. They are not related, unless she is projecting her unhappiness onto him.

She needs IC badly. Question is, how to get her there on her own without him suggesting it?

My vote is hard and firm boundaries. Take control. No more engaging in these conversations. Have the D ready to go. Serve her before she leaves. Refuse MC with her.

she sounds crazy

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Conrad

Here's a boundary:

He's not ok with marriage counseling if she moves out.


----------



## bandit.45

I think you guys hit on something....

Maybe what Stallion needs to do is sit down with her and ask her if selling the farm and working on the marriage is an option. 

Frankly, from what Stallion has told us, I don't think he is going to be brokenhearted selling the place. Horse raising is exhausting business, made especially worse when the two married owners are out of sync with each other. 

I do agree he needs to take a stand about her moving out. He should tell her that if she moves out, a D petition WILL be filed and he will not go to MC... no maybes about it.


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## cbnero

bandit.45 said:


> I do agree he needs to take a stand about her moving out. He should tell her that if she moves out, a D petition WILL be filed and he will not go to MC... no maybes about it.


I agree with boundaries.

But don't tell her no MC or that he is filing D. She will say he is controlling or manipulating her. 

If she leaves, serve her. No drama, no engaging.

But before that... why are there still no other boundaries that are easy to do???
1. Stop feeling bad for her. Do not be a doormat.
2. Drop her cell phone off your plan IMMEDIATELY. 
3. Separate checking if there are any joint accounts, protect any money you need to asap
4. Get yourself some new underwear, clothes, shoes, and cologne
5. DO NOT BE AROUND HER! Get the heck out of that toxic house - overnight! Do NOT answer her calls or texts. Do NOT tell her where you were. You do not need to answer to her anymore!!! Stand up for yourself.
6. Do Not Talk To Her. If she asks where you were, just say out. If she asks who you were with, just say none of your business.
7. If she flips a lid, tell her flatly and without being angry: You are abandoning this marriage. I will not be your doormat or anyone's Plan B. If you cannot decide between me and another man, let me make it simple for you: I am no longer an option.
8. SAY NOTHING MORE AND WALK AWAY. 

Cmon man. You need to stand up for yourself here. You cannot nice your way out of this. Unless you hear on the VAR or keylog that she is feeling remorse for the things she said and did to you, what has changed with her? NOTHING.


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## stallion1

cbnero said:


> I agree with boundaries.
> 
> But don't tell her no MC or that he is filing D. She will say he is controlling or manipulating her.
> If she leaves, serve her. No drama, no engaging.
> 
> But before that... why are there still no other boundaries that are easy to do???
> 1. Stop feeling bad for her. Do not be a doormat.
> 2. Drop her cell phone off your plan IMMEDIATELY.
> 3. Separate checking if there are any joint accounts, protect any money you need to asap
> 4. Get yourself some new underwear, clothes, shoes, and cologne
> 5. DO NOT BE AROUND HER! Get the heck out of that toxic house - overnight! Do NOT answer her calls or texts. Do NOT tell her where you were. You do not need to answer to her anymore!!! Stand up for yourself.
> 6. Do Not Talk To Her. If she asks where you were, just say out. If she asks who you were with, just say none of your business.
> 7. If she flips a lid, tell her flatly and without being angry: You are abandoning this marriage. I will not be your doormat or anyone's Plan B. If you cannot decide between me and another man, let me make it simple for you: I am no longer an option.
> 8. SAY NOTHING MORE AND WALK AWAY.
> 
> Cmon man. You need to stand up for yourself here. You cannot nice your way out of this. Unless you hear on the VAR or keylog that she is feeling remorse for the things she said and did to you, what has changed with her? NOTHING.


if I tell her no MC and filing she will use "controlling"
If I told her not to leave she may not but would most likely say controlling, not understanding etc. then stay and be bitter about it. Thinking about it, everything has been about her and her needs................my needs are not to be the best doormat possible!

she hasn't shown remorse. Just less comments about this being my fault.

she does need IC but im not an IC. Ive read my thread again. I was getting along well and I feel like im back in the beginning. Relating my recent comments and your replies to some from a month ago. I need to rebound from this and start seeing clearly again.

if I ask about OM I will get the response bandit talked about. Should I test those waters again? or just leave things be, let her move, and file. No more engaging.


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## sandc

Stallion,
You tell her what you want from her in order to keep the marriage going. If she moves out, she will be spending time with whomever she's spending time with. You're starting to man up and really peak her interest. If she see's your lip curling because you've been out and about, she's going to start getting more and more interested in you.


----------



## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> if I tell her no MC and filing she will use "controlling"
> If I told her not to leave she may not but would most likely say controlling, not understanding etc. then stay and be bitter about it. Thinking about it, everything has been about her and her needs................my needs are not to be the best doormat possible!
> 
> she hasn't shown remorse. Just less comments about this being my fault.
> 
> she does need IC but im not an IC. Ive read my thread again. I was getting along well and I feel like im back in the beginning. Relating my recent comments and your replies to some from a month ago. I need to rebound from this and start seeing clearly again.
> 
> if I ask about OM I will get the response bandit talked about. Should I test those waters again? or just leave things be, let her move, and file. No more engaging.


Talking and thinking too much.

All you need to say is, "I'm not ok going to marriage counseling with someone I don't live with"

Stop

Period

Do not explain


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## cbnero

Do This. Say nothing else. No more engaging.

180 her, now! But this time really do it. All of it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk

Horseman,

I think you can get her back. Don't talk to her in anger, negativity, spite or neediness. Just converse with her as if you had everything figured out, because you do.

Conrad says don't go to MC. Perhaps. The key is to draw a line in the sand. If she leaves, file for divorce. So far it's all been about her and what she wants. In MC you can explain that when she went to find herself you got up in the morning ate breakfast and realized that you had found yourself.

And having done that, you knew that you could help her by pushing her ship away from the shore instead tying it down. Marriage is a team of two. You liked sharing the boat together but if she were to be the captain by herself, you would find a different life.

This may leave your MC a pair of clients poorer, but it will show your WAW your resolution and decisiveness. I don't believe she is the sort of woman who will be attracted or loyal to a man who will allow her to date, which what separation usually means.

Concentrate on making the business work to maximize the investment.

Dressage is where the rider has the animal doing all sorts of unnatural moves. You are not a gelding. Keep it that way.


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## stallion1

she got home tonight and asked if I set up counseling. I said no. I don't see the need to go to counseling with someone who I don't even live with.

she proceeded to tell me it wasn't about me it was for her blah blah blah...yea I know its for you.

then she said fine, I wont leave. Ill just stay here and be upset..............ok............

then it was about me not letting her leave, controlling, etc...................ok...............

then she comes in the room and finally (CB and Conrad I know) I talked......(sand C I went with your advice on this one) I told her what I wanted. I told her I had compromised my needs for to long and that was over. I told her if she couldn't handle my needs or see why they are important then yes I am done. I wont compromise my own self anymore. Very matter of fact, not angry just telling her the truth. I felt very good about it.

her initial reply was she can do better. Then she said, I just need a place to go do my paintings for awile.....I said, then go do it........no cause youll be mad.............ok

I give up talking. It gets no where in her head.....she asked when we could talk more about us.... I said I don't know. I don't need to schedule it right now I just need to get some sleep I have a long day. she didn't want to let it go but finally gave up on me after I turned the lights off and was in bed.

I like what happened tonight. I told her what I want for once and said she could accept it or not.......she can still move out but I made it clear what that means to me. She can stay and be resentful and I made that clear what it means to me. 

Maybe im not getting to the 50k yet. however this is a process. I really like where I have set boundries for myself tonight. I think it was productive. I think it will help get me to a decision. I also feel like ive said enough in the right way for me to feel comfortable with not saying anything else at this point.


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## LongWalk

Good job. People say talk is not action, but sometimes it is.

Here is a talk on how the stability and sexual desire are at odds. A couple want a reliable partner, someone who is there for them (you are that for her). People also want excitement and romantic adventure because that stimulates desire.

Your wife is not into you sexually because you are predictable. She wants something strange and new. Her ovaries are restless. She is now more interested in you because you are changing. You need to keep calmly rejecting her so that she is all over you.

If she gets off her high horse and indicates that she wants you to put a move on her. Give her a good banging. Make as rough and dirty as you think she likes it. Don't say anything about your separation or conflicts, treat the surrender like an agreement that she is on board. Keep it up. Don't say I love you.

If she says it to you, smile and give her a caress.

You have to tame the shrew if that is what she wants to feel whole as a woman. If she moves out, file for divorce.

I remember my daughter riding dressage. The riding school ponies did not always listen. The better the girls got at following the instructions, the more to those beasts responded. The girls always got a thrill when it worked. 

Is your wife paying attention to the horses now?

Does your business require that you have horses that are trained so that you can put less experienced riders on them to learn dressage? Are you selling horses?


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## cbnero

Nothing wrong with setting boundaries and standing up for yourself. Remember she didnt hold you back from doing so throughout your relationship as much as you likely held yourself back.

MC may help a lot if you get to that point. Communication seems to be a big problem. You did well effectively relaying what you want and how you feel. Probably the first time you have done it instead of letting it be solely about her and then being mad it's all about her. Remember NMMNG.

You can take the lead on communicating and show her how it needs to work. Dont bottle stuff up. Stay calm, be funny, validate her when she needs it. Realize neither of you can be perfect. But dont let her shift blame or rewrite history to justify her substandard thoughts and actions.

She sounds extremely weak emotionally right now. Dont be afraid to embrace her and be a man.

Good job.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## cbnero

Also dont lose sight of the 3rd (used to be the oroginal) option. People leaving a marriage seem to see only 1 or 2:
1. She can leave and the marriage is over 
2. She can stay and you both be miserable
3. She can stay and both of you work together for the happiness of each other. Communicate what each other want, validate each other. 

If she wont validate you at all, then it isnt good outlook. Then it is still all about her.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Conrad

stallion1 said:


> she got home tonight and asked if I set up counseling. I said no. I don't see the need to go to counseling with someone who I don't even live with.
> 
> she proceeded to tell me it wasn't about me it was for her blah blah blah...yea I know its for you.


So far, so good.



stallion1 said:


> then she said fine, I wont leave. Ill just stay here and be upset..............ok............
> 
> then it was about me not letting her leave, controlling, etc...................ok...............


All to be expected.



stallion1 said:


> then she comes in the room and finally (CB and Conrad I know) I talked......


----------



## bandit.45

I don't think you did anything wrong telling her what your expectations were. 

But here is the deal Stallion... I still don't believe you want to be married to her anymore. I think you just want to avoid feeling like a failure when you do have to filed for D. 

If I were a guy wanting to keep my wife, I would have grabbed her and kissed her and probably taken her into the bedroom for a good seeing-to....Doesn't sound like you had that urge.


----------



## cbnero

I guess I missed reading the part where you told her how you feel and what you needed. And how she responded that she could do better. 

And you have any optimistic or loving feelings towards this person why? That is not validation, that is persecution.

Nothing has changed. You slightly pulled back and she started ping ponging trying to reel you back in. Now she has you on the hook once more. 

Time for another reset. Happens to us all. Reread your thread again. Reread NMMNG. Reread 180.

No more talks or emotions. "I'm not okay doing marriage counseling with someone who doesnt live here." Done

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk

Bandit, you may be on to something. Horseman may not find his WW/WAW so attractive any longer. He has done so much towards fulfilling her dream that he must be somewhat disgusted at her disloyalty. She hates to see her farm go down the tubes and has no idea of how divorce will change her life. The financial unwinding is going to be a rude shock.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> I don't think you did anything wrong telling her what your expectations were.
> 
> But here is the deal Stallion... I still don't believe you want to be married to her anymore. I think you just want to avoid feeling like a failure when you do have to filed for D.
> 
> If I were a guy wanting to keep my wife, I would have grabbed her and kissed her and probably taken her into the bedroom for a good seeing-to....Doesn't sound like you had that urge.


ive been thinking about this since you posted it!


----------



## stallion1

LongWalk said:


> Bandit, you may be on to something. Horseman may not find his WW/WAW so attractive any longer. He has done so much towards fulfilling her dream that he must be somewhat disgusted at her disloyalty. She hates to see her farm go down the tubes and has no idea of how divorce will change her life. The financial unwinding is going to be a rude shock.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


disloyalty.........yes.... is this my fault? reading through NMMNG and learning about boundries.......has my being the nice guy and not setting boundries led my marriage to where it is?

She has been overly nice the last few days. apologizing for how shes acted, trying to schedule counseling, saying if I don't want her to move she wont (but she still made it clear she wants to for her and as a getaway. offering for me to come with her??????????)

She was going to talk to a friend tonight. wanted to come home and watch a movie in my room. I said probably not ive got a long day and going to bed early. she was very upset. she left to meet her friend, called and said why don't you like me anymore!!!!! I said she had said nothing but divorce and some other things for two months and the last few days you've changed your mind....what is different now that you think this marriage will work? she didn't have a good answer and it lead to her blaming me for basically not openly accepting her niceness all of the sudden. (long story short!)

I ignored calls and texts. one was....please don't ignore me...im trying to work on me....

I know her well. I know it take a lot for her to even make the effort to apologize or change her mind, to say she is trying to work on her.

It seems like a lot of HER. not us, not me and you. she does need to work on her but also us and or let me work on me at the same time and she isn't there.

I really havnt said to much to her in the last couple days. I feel like if I don't get super excited about her wanting to be nice all of the sudden im being mean. but I know this doesn't change over night so im being very cautious. Is this going to affect things. Should I just set boundries and go for R?

I am very hurt by what happened. I am not sure I want to stay married anymore to this person even if she is being pleasant at this moment. but if there is a chance to work it out should I drop my guard a bit and go for it? wont I push her away more if I don't start being affectionate with her? I think she maybe is making progress for herself but I still feel that she is doing this for her and not really considering me and what I need from a wife.

so sick of this nonsense. I would like a hammer to drop on my head, knock me out, then wake up with the clear answer to which way my life should go!

I know everything takes time. I know people on this site can probably tell me where things are at and which way to go and I take it all in and appreciate all of it but if you are in a crisis situation, you do what you do. if that crisis is video taped, and you watch it after the fact, most of the time you will say, "why the f did you deal with it that way?!!!!!) Are you guys watching this


----------



## cbnero

After hearing her gut you on the VAR and in person and seing no apology or remorse, I can see not wanting her.

question is, are you just as guilty of not telling her that her actions and words have wounded you deeply and you wont be treated in such a manner? She likely isnt conscious of how you feel on some level. Or thinks it is okay to say or do those things to you since you have allowed it to go on for so long.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## stallion1

why does conrads name have "banned" under it?


----------



## cbnero

Weird. Maybe some Dbag is messing with him. I'm sure he will have it resolved soon.

Crazy horse sounds like she cannot figure you out. You are definitely winning here, she had you pegged for all her troubles. You disengaging is forcing her to confront her own issues. 

You have set your boundaries firmly re: marriage if she leaves. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Be confident.

She is extremely weak now. If she reaches a serious vulnerable point, and you feel like it, grab her and bring it home. There is a lot of intimacy in finding each other again and nothing wrong with you leading the way. If thats what you want.

We arent there so trust your gut. Watch her actions more than her words. She momentarily seems to be remorseful but only as far as to pull you back in. She still wants to leave you, that life, responsibilities. You know better.

If she wants to make career changes and you do too then dont run away, do it the adult way. But if you dont then validate how she feels but how can this work together to find a solution you can both live with. Right now it sounds like it isnt "we" as much as "me" and that isnt a marriage/partnership. Stand tall, you are doing great. Keep winning.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## stallion1

its very weird. I feel like the roles have reversed. I used to try and do anything, MC, etc. to make it work.

Now she is doing that and im the one questioning if I want to make it work or not.

ps how do you get banned? and Conrad of all people? Really? is there something IDK? WTF?


----------



## cbnero

Because you are shifting power from her to you instead of rolling over, begging and pleading. That screwed up her plan.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Ceegee

stallion1 said:


> why does conrads name have "banned" under it?



He's been permabanned. A travesty.


----------



## cbnero

What? Seriously? Why and by whom? There must be a story here. Cant he just reopen another account?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## stallion1

Ceegee said:


> He's been permabanned. A travesty.


don't understand why, violation of conduct? doesn't seem the type! ive learned more than I can say from his posts. Ceegee as a forum supporter, can you tell me why someone will get banned? 

sad day if a helpful person can be banned for poor reasoning

will I get banned for saying that?

not judging, don't know the story, just asking.........


----------



## Ceegee

cbnero said:


> What? Seriously? Why and by whom? There must be a story here. Cant he just reopen another account?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Cannot say. 

Many in other forums had issues with him. 

Say what they will but he had a profound influence in this forum. He had a keen insight into both the WS and BS psyche. 

I learned a lot from that dude and will do what I can, as well as many others who have learned from him, to continue to aid others in these difficult circumstances.


----------



## Ceegee

Btw, if you haven't done so, search for threads he started. 

Read them all. 

Several times over. 

You will learn a lifetime of experience in relationships from him as well as other contributors. 

You will also see his progression and how he learned.


----------



## Ceegee

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/politics-religion/184897-conrad.html


----------



## sandc

Ceegee said:


> He's been permabanned. A travesty.


Are you sure it's permanent?


----------



## bandit.45

The 180 is working Stud. 

But....

There is no sense in taking it any further or trying for any kind of R if you don't address the elephant in the room: The high probability she has cheated or is cheating on you. At some point you need to confront her or all is for naught.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

He must have said something pretty nasty to get perma- banned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

Ceegee said:


> Cannot say.
> 
> Many in other forums had issues with him.
> 
> Say what they will but he had a profound influence in this forum. He had a keen insight into both the WS and BS psyche.
> 
> I learned a lot from that dude and will do what I can, as well as many others who have learned from him, to continue to aid others in these difficult circumstances.


I hold the "Conrad" in the highest regard! and thank him for all the light he has shined on me!

truth hurts sometimes!???!

we are here to grow, see both sides of the story, receive advice willingly, what advice we take and use is up to us as individuals, that is part of our personal growth. being able to see and accept our own strengths and weaknesses is a good start whether we like it or not.


----------



## happy as a clam

There was a pretty lively gun control thread going for awhile over on the politics board. Wonder if that had anything to do with it?

I will miss Conrad's insight too. Hope it's not permanent.


----------



## LongWalk

bandit.45 said:


> He must have said something pretty nasty to get perma- banned.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Conrad,

Did not say anything nasty.
He wasn't that sort of person.
However, he was unmerciful in political discussion and was like a grumpy principle who lectured folks. He should have accepted that you can differ in opinion.


----------



## bandit.45

Gotcha


----------



## LongWalk

Horseman,

I'll see if I can find a way to contact Conrad and let him know what you said.

Conrad taught us all a lot. He will still be pulling for you.

Read his other comments on other threads (not the political ones) and you will profit.

re: your wife's changing attitude
I think it is entirely possible that your wife has cheated on you. She has a need for you to be stronger, more of a leader. It turns her on that you are becoming that guy.

Even though she has felt that she might dump you, she may still love you or be discovering that she does have feelings for you. You have this business entanglement. When you have the ability not to mix up your emotions and the business itself, that is very impressive. She probably cannot do it. 

At some point you have take your wife back to bed. You have to take her. You have to be able to be a confident lover. You cannot have sex and then return to being the door mat.

Are you at that point that you can take control?


----------



## bandit.45

But does he want to now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

I don't know. Only he can answer that question.

Did she ever really love him? Maybe when she next tries to talk to him he should look her in the eye and ask her just that. If she is evasive or fails to answer yes, then he will be certain that there is nothing to save.


----------



## bandit.45

Once another man has defiled your woman, it's hard to see how it's worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> I don't know. Only he can answer that question.
> 
> Did she ever really love him? Maybe when she next tries to talk to him he should look her in the eye and ask her just that. If she is evasive or fails to answer yes, then he will be certain that there is nothing to save.


Stallion, doing the 180 doesn't necessarily mean avoiding confrontation. Maybe that would be a good thing to bring up in MC if you don't feel safe doing it at home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Hey Stallion how are things going?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

We're getting together tonight for some liquid brotherhood and strategy planning.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## stallion1

im doing fine. been caught up in the PnR place! Wow! I should try to solve my own problems first, before I tackle the politics side of things!

Going to see CB tonight. That will be great.

Crazy horse has been hiding the "crazy". She wants to work on things. Shes all about making things work. she has brought up her personal issues on her own and wants to work on those with a counselor. Said she has realized all of her frustrations have been taken out on me. Like she never realized what her emotional problems stemmed from (including our marriage) and took it all out on the marriage. There is a lot to this girl.

Im shocked, confused, unsure, willing, maybe not willing........
Im being cautious. Trying not to stray from myself.

I could still be plan B. She could change her tone cause she saw my changes and wants to reel me back into the Old comfort zone for her. Im not sure.

CB and I will have a good discussion tonight to hash out some details. Cant wait. He always brings home a good reality check!

Ill keep you posted. Thanks for all the continued support.


----------



## bandit.45

Good luck. 

I think its cute she wants to work on herself, but she needs to explain the hotel bill and what you heard on the VAR first. 

No amount of marriage counseling will work if she's seeing another guy.


----------



## stallion1

there was a hotel bill conversation. and there will be another when I show it to her and have her explain or try to. Don't worry im not saying, ok your being nice so I can go back to being the best doormat ever.

I made it clear there were some nasty things said and I didn't appreciate. she doesn't know what I heard or from where but she apologized and long story short said she snapped from the stress of everything(ill explain what everything is later) and took it out on our marriage. she really cant handle stress without taking it out on the people close to her. I think its because those closest have always accepted her behavior including me. and she feels comfortable with it.

ill be working with CB on strategy for the hotel bill. Ive flat out asked if she was seeing someone or had ever cheated. maybe a bad idea. of course she said no. said she has never cheated and would never. Ive gotten nothing on the var, keylogger, or phone records. So if there is a strategy to try and get her to talk please let me know. Is it possible she didn't. I don't think she would ever admit it either way.

being cautious. staying on MY path.


----------



## bandit.45

You would have to get hard evidence, I guess, to get her to confess... pics of her and OM outside a hotel, text messages between her and another man... stuff that you can print out and show her. 

Other than that you have to go with your gut. If your gut tells you she is lying then she probably is. 

You may have to be patient and gather more intel...but she will be twice as careful and wary now. 

I hate people like her.. They make it hard work to love them. Love should never feel like work ya know? She does not understand that.


----------



## stallion1

btw, pretty sure I get the race car bed tonight at CBs!
jealous!


----------



## bandit.45

stallion1 said:


> btw, pretty sure I get the race car bed tonight at CBs!
> jealous!


I'm not jealous. I'm bedding a 28 year old half- Syrian beauty tonight at her house. 

That's what you get to do when you ditch a worthless ex wife and live for yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happy as a clam

Hmmm... Half-Syrian 28-year-old beauty, or RACE CAR BED in Cb's basement?! 

That's a tough call boys!!


----------



## cbnero

We are at the bar chatting up 2 librarians right now. Things are looking up!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## cbnero

Well one is only an assistant librarian.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## tom67

cbnero said:


> We are at the bar chatting up 2 librarians right now. Things are looking up!
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Sounds like a plan.


----------



## Ceegee

Whatever you decide to do, make it clear that you are working on you too. 

You are no longer going to be her (or anyone else's) doormat. 

You are no longer an man who will allow his boundaries to be trampled. 

Any relationship you commit to commands equal participation, respect, honesty and loyalty. 

In other words, keep doing what you've been doing. 

If you're still on the fence it's because she's not trying hard enough.


----------



## cbnero

We have a plan set. Stallion will set an appt with MC next week. His dime, his appt. At MC he will ask her about the hotel room. See if she lies again. He will ask about payment since he knows it was charged to her bank account. Thus far she has no recollection of any hotel room by the beach. 

If she lies (likely) then he will stay on point like a laser. Not threaten divorce. Just say I am not okay with being lied to. This is extremely hurtful and this is not acceptable in a marriage. Please explain these lies and why I should trust anything you say.

then slience. If she starts in on the BS then say You have issues you need to work out on your own with this lying business. I am not okay with it anymore. Then walk out.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Ceegee

Leave out the "hurtful and unacceptable" part. Stick with "I'm not ok with being lied to". 

Cool, calm and dispassionate.


----------



## tom67

Ceegee said:


> Leave out the "hurtful and unacceptable" part. Stick with "I'm not ok with being lied to".
> 
> Cool, calm and dispassionate.


Yes keep it simple as Conrad would have said.
No emotion and to the point.
Very effective.


----------



## cbnero

Will do. I advised him to not bring up or threaten D. Nothing that could let her get off point of the hotel and the cover up.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## LongWalk

Ceegee said:


> Leave out the "hurtful and unacceptable" part. Stick with "I'm not ok with being lied to".
> 
> Cool, calm and dispassionate.


This is key.

A woman does not want a guy who is a so-called "hot mess". Every time you read about a guy who cries when his wife begs his cheating wife to stay, all you can do is groan. Even if she stays she does not want to have sex with him.

The guy whose emotions are under control is way more attractive. That doesn't mean reconciliation is about being a jerk or unaffectionate, but a man who eats a shxt sandwich and smiles about it will have to eat them every day.


----------



## bandit.45

Sounds like a good strategy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

bandit, hope your 28 yo Syrian goddess was all that it was cracked up to be.

Cb and I charmed the pants off of the librarians and the bartender who was 23 and I think had her eye on CB. Not literally! 

It was fun and innocent.

race car bed was awesome!

going to heed the advice giving.

read a thread about after the fact stuff with divorce. about all the people who wished they didn't wait soooo long to get divorced. their reasons for staying sound a lot like mine and it didn't work out for them and now they are happy. seems like a big reality check for where I am at.

either way, thanks for the good time CB. we'll do it again soon!

as for the rest of you........Happy Easter Sunday! Live your life, be happy with who you are, grow, enjoy, be positive, and live like you want! ohhhhhhhh and don't settle for less than the best!


----------



## cbnero

Good luck this week! You forgot your case of beer, it's on deposit for your next visit.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## LongWalk

TAM buddies in real life!


----------



## bandit.45

Good luck at the MC Stallion. Stick to your guns. Let us know how it went.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

I just have the feeling that Stallion's wife kicks herself every day for leaving that hotel receipt out for him to find.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

cbnero said:


> Good luck this week! You forgot your case of beer, it's on deposit for your next visit.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Less interest, of course.


----------



## Chuck71

are you still fighting for me stallion?

fight for me

help me

save me

rescue me

stallion, are you even listening????


----------



## stallion1

chuck do you have a VAR planted in my house?


----------



## cbnero

Stallion's not home right now. Please leave a message after the beep. He'll be sure to drop everything and get back to you.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## farsidejunky

Eh, what did I miss???


----------



## cbnero

I think stallion had heard enough of her crap and is going to put her in a real conversion whether she likes it or not.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

I'll check back in next week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

will the conversation be on demand or PPV tele


----------



## bandit.45

Any updates?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

Quite the cliff hanger here... Hope it went well for you.


----------



## cbnero

No news here. I'm partying in SC this weekend

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

Oh well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

well, sorry to keep you hanging. all I got done this week was make a copy of the bill per CB.

Started a big project with a strict timeline this week. Ive had no time to even think about any of this. Im exhausted. Not sure if its good or bad ive set the issue aside this week. Although im glad I can actually focus on work. What does that say? I haven't been concerned about my marriage this week.

Plan is still going to happen. 

We'll see what kind of nonsense comes of it.

we haven't talked much this week. She keeps being nice. wanted me to go out with her and a friend tonight. I said no, sorry ive got plans........my plans are to finish this post and sleep!

there were a couple times this week when her negative side came out again. It made me think about why I was here in the first place. so , now she has been very nice, but she seems to be forcing it. and when the negativity comes out I can see that nothing has really changed.

CB have fun in SC! Unemployed since 2004!!!!!:rofl:

Bandit, reading your posts on tam singles.........keep it up! have fun!

farside, sorry to keep you hanging but it wont be much longer!

Chuck, PPV, im charging 100 bucks per bout' tune in!!!!!


----------



## LongWalk

Horseman,

You will know your wife is on your side and on her own side, when she changes her attitude. Why doesn't she get naked and force her way into your bed?


----------



## stallion1

she has been very nice lately. but when I tell her about how I feel and talk about change she gets so defensive. she tells me how stand offish I have been.........I have..... my response was ive been that way because she wants to drop the issues and go back to "normal" and im not ok with that anymore............

tonight there was a big conversation slash argument. Yes I engaged! It lead to her name calling, saying im saying things which are probably coming from other people, she bashed my sister saying she is putting things in my head, etc........btw my sister is probably the nicest person on earth............no offense to everyone else! my sis will always look at both sides. she will try and see the good in each person and go from there. I respect and trust her opinion. anyone who can say mean things about a person like my sister has problems. (not constructive things, but mean things) the wife just doesn't get me. I talk about feelings and im a baby. I say what I need and im controlling. she thinks im making this all about her and its not her fault. She jokes about it and when im not amused its because I don't have a sense of humor. She also says, who really stays in love!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many married people do I know who actually really love eachother!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sounds like a lot of blame to me.

counseling on wed. with a hotel bill!

see what happens. oh, and last we left it, she was supposed to set up the next counseling session. which she agreed to do. Ive asked her twice in the last week if she had set one up. both times she said no. ok........I asked her again today, she said no. after our unproductive conversation she said she set up counseling. I said when, she said well im not sure you even wanted to go.........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so I made it wed. She will show up. I know she will because she doesn't want to feel guilty for not going. even though she thinks its bs........

its like I keep getting hit in the forehead with a 2x4 that tells me how things will be if I stay. I keep taking it. When will that 2x4 break? how many times do I have to get hit, to make a move.?

longwalk, if she would force herself into bed right now I wouldn't want anything to do with it. what does that say? usually to continue a physical relationship, I need an emotional relationship as well.


----------



## bandit.45

She sounds BPD to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

Classic blameshifting with a touch of gaslighting thrown in for good measure.


----------



## bandit.45

I think you're wasting your time. But it will be interesting to see what happens in MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> I think you're wasting your time. But it will be interesting to see what happens in MC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


wasting my time in MC or considering it would be possible we could work this out, or both? nevermind. I know the answer!

it will be interesting. this MC date is all about the hotel bill plan. Ill take what I can get out of it for the first part as I like counseling and what an outside perspective sees. Second half I foresee as a lot of deny deny deny.


----------



## bandit.45

Working it out? 

Yeah. She has demonstrated how much she wants to work it out. Remember, pay attention to her actions, not her words. 

What she wants is for you to kiss her azz, keep your mouth shut and be her b!tch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Just be sure you take initial control of the MC session. Remember you made the appt, not her.

When the MC asks how things are going, bring up that at least for today there is one issue you need to discuss. 

State what she told you. Show her the hotel bill. I'm not okay being lied to. Then be quiet.

If the MC or her start switching gears, deflecting blame, she starts lying, etc... then dont lose your cool. Request to stay focused on the issue you brought up. Trust your gut. If she can't do that then dont be afraid to ask the session to end for now.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## happy as a clam

cbnero said:


> JuRequest to stay focused on the issue you brought up. Trust your gut. If she can't do that then dont be afraid to ask the session to end for now.


:iagree:

If she is guilty and caught in a lie, she will get angry, start blaming you, gas-lighting, deflecting, probably using profanity, and "kitchen-sink" fighting (bringing up everything wrong YOU ever did which has nothing to do with the issue at hand). Or she will storm out saying something like, "I don't have to put up with this sh*t!"

Then you'll know.


----------



## Chuck71

or do as pop used to me when I was about 7-8 y/o

when I screwed up I would still try to "baby my way out"

he would act as if he was rubbing his eyes, said "you make sad

face" in 'baby talk', then look me straight in the eyes,

laughing....and said "your a$$ is still grass". He never admitted

it but, I swear he would 'play me' or 'bait me' into that just for his

amusement. Stall..... when you can look at her and honestly 

laugh at her antics, she will know.....you're your own man.

The best part is the first couple times you do it, she will go 

ape-chit ballistic.......calmly refrain from doing anything but

laughing and shake your head as you turn away.


----------



## stallion1

well,,,,,,,,,,,,can you guess who called the MC to cancel for tomorrow morning?

Just found out.

Asked if she wanted to meet me there as I have another meeting right after.

Her......Oh I cancelled it because there are horses coming in at 8am. We should reschedule for next week.

Yes there is a lot going on tomorrow. I made sure to be able to make it work. Pushed everything back in my life to make it work. I wonder if I didn't ask her tonight if she would have even said anything.

come on, the suspense is killing me about the receipt. should I take it upon myself to bring it up so I don't have to delay any longer?

She was being needy last night and I said I had plans. I went out and she wanted me to stay. Seriously, the more I go do what I want and don't include her the more she wants me to stay. How fed up is that.

then she asked me if I wanted to babysit with her and her mom on Thursday for her sisters new baby. I get along very well with her sister and her mom and im very good friends with her sisters husband. So their kid is my niece. I would love to be there for the baby! I will probably go. any advice on that? mind you its not about her its about the baby girl who I would love to be with.


----------



## bandit.45

No surprise about the MC. 

If you are going to help babysit , then confront about the hotel reciept after that. 

By needy do you mean she NEEDS you? That means your detacent is working. Are you two having sex? O
If so be careful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

I wouldn't babysit with her. 

I understand wanting to see your niece but the implications of you doing so would set back your 180. 

Stay patient. Stay cool. 

You're living your life right?


----------



## tom67

stallion1 said:


> well,,,,,,,,,,,,can you guess who called the MC to cancel for tomorrow morning?
> 
> Just found out.
> 
> Asked if she wanted to meet me there as I have another meeting right after.
> 
> Her......Oh I cancelled it because there are horses coming in at 8am. We should reschedule for next week.
> 
> Yes there is a lot going on tomorrow. I made sure to be able to make it work. Pushed everything back in my life to make it work. I wonder if I didn't ask her tonight if she would have even said anything.
> 
> come on, the suspense is killing me about the receipt. should I take it upon myself to bring it up so I don't have to delay any longer?
> 
> She was being needy last night and I said I had plans. I went out and she wanted me to stay. Seriously, the more I go do what I want and don't include her the more she wants me to stay. How fed up is that.
> 
> then she asked me if I wanted to babysit with her and her mom on Thursday for her sisters new baby. I get along very well with her sister and her mom and im very good friends with her sisters husband. So their kid is my niece. I would love to be there for the baby! I will probably go. any advice on that? mind you its not about her its about the baby girl who I would love to be with.


Ask her sis and mother what they would think of the bill?
Ah maybe drive separately.
Serious go and be quite pleasant.
Don't burn that bridge it will be burned for you by her in time.


----------



## SoVeryLost

I'm just popping in on this thread and haven't read all 40 pages, but I believe I get the general jist of what's been happening.

Personally I would not babysit with her this week, especially after she canceled MC. Your last sentence leads me to believe you already know it's likely not the best idea to go. It sounds as though you are trying to justify it in your own mind by reiterating that "it's not about her." Although I'm certain spending time with a newborn would be enjoyable, she needs to understand what life is like without you if she's not willing to put any effort in for you to stay. By your own admission you said, "Pushed everything back in my life for it to work." Actions actions actions. Her nonchalance about canceling compared to you re-arranging your life to make a MC session work tells you what you need to know.


----------



## Ceegee

SoVeryLost said:


> I'm just popping in on this thread and haven't read all 40 pages, but I believe I get the general jist of what's been happening.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I would not babysit with her this week, especially after she canceled MC. Your last sentence leads me to believe you already know it's likely not the best idea to go. It sounds as though you are trying to justify it in your own mind by reiterating that "it's not about her." Although I'm certain spending time with a newborn would be enjoyable, she needs to understand what life is like without you if she's not willing to put any effort in for you to stay. By your own admission you said, "Pushed everything back in my life for it to work." Actions actions actions. Her nonchalance about canceling compared to you re-arranging your life to make a MC session work tells you what you need to know.



Nail on head. 

You don't sound lost. Not one bit.


----------



## SoVeryLost

Ceegee said:


> Nail on head.
> 
> You don't sound lost. Not one bit.


Thank you. I'm not any longer.


----------



## stallion1

SoVeryLost said:


> I'm just popping in on this thread and haven't read all 40 pages, but I believe I get the general jist of what's been happening.
> 
> Personally I would not babysit with her this week, especially after she canceled MC. Your last sentence leads me to believe you already know it's likely not the best idea to go. It sounds as though you are trying to justify it in your own mind by reiterating that "it's not about her." Although I'm certain spending time with a newborn would be enjoyable, she needs to understand what life is like without you if she's not willing to put any effort in for you to stay. By your own admission you said, "Pushed everything back in my life for it to work." Actions actions actions. Her nonchalance about canceling compared to you re-arranging your life to make a MC session work tells you what you need to know.


yup. I can always schedule my own time to see the baby. maybe I already have plans Thursday?!!!!


----------



## SoVeryLost

stallion1 said:


> yup. I can always schedule my own time to see the baby. maybe I already have plans Thursday?!!!!


Not maybe. :smthumbup:


----------



## tom67

stallion1 said:


> yup. I can always schedule my own time to see the baby. maybe I already have plans Thursday?!!!!


Now that I think of it I forgot it's guys night out.
Mucho playoff hockey.


----------



## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> No surprise about the MC.
> 
> If you are going to help babysit , then confront about the hotel reciept after that.
> 
> By needy do you mean she NEEDS you? That means your detacent is working. Are you two having sex? O
> If so be careful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


no sex so I don't have to worry. it seems like I could make it happen if I wanted to but I don't really have the urge with her right now. all the times I tried and was shut down over the last couple years took its toll on me wanting anymore. 

she said she was lonely and didn't want me to go out. Pretty sure it was because she didn't have plans and I did.


----------



## stallion1

tom67 said:


> Now that I think of it I forgot it's guys night out.
> Mucho playoff hockey.


yesssssssssssss although, my state may be in or out after tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


in meant tomorrow night.....ooops


----------



## tom67

stallion1 said:


> yesssssssssssss although, my state may be in or out after tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I know sorry that last game the Dallas goalie kind of choked I thought it was going another game.


----------



## stallion1

dallas! Im not a Dallas fan. They stole the state of hockey's team a long time ago!


----------



## cbnero

If you are really not okay with her lying to you, then you need to confront her and show her you arent okay being lied to. You already mentioned it to her once a few weeks ago. She knows she is screwed but so far she has been teflon on this issue.

Yes MC would be ideal. But look how easily she got control of that. Now it has been rug swept again.

Or hasnt it?

Important thing is to keep control of your own emotions. Cant get dragged into her game. Which is likely to happen if you confront her with the evidence.

At some point you will have to deal with this.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## LongWalk

How many horses do you have? Who does the work taking care of them?


----------



## stallion1

cbnero said:


> If you are really not okay with her lying to you, then you need to confront her and show her you arent okay being lied to. You already mentioned it to her once a few weeks ago. She knows she is screwed but so far she has been teflon on this issue.
> 
> Yes MC would be ideal. But look how easily she got control of that. Now it has been rug swept again.
> 
> Or hasnt it?
> 
> Important thing is to keep control of your own emotions. Cant get dragged into her game. Which is likely to happen if you confront her with the evidence.
> 
> At some point you will have to deal with this.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


its been rug swept by her. I am ready to deal with it. Setting up one more MC session. if that falls through, I will bring it up to her on my own.

Been pretty good about controlling emotions....for the most part.

or just forget the MC and do it already?

LW, right around 30ish. we have employees that do a lot of the stall cleaning and leading in and out. She does the training and works with people advertising. I work with the books, everything maintaining the grounds in and out.


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## happy as a clam

Isn't today the MC session where you are going to bring it up and confront? I thought it was coming up on Wednesday (today). Maybe I missed something.


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## cbnero

It was. She canceled it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## happy as a clam

cbnero said:


> It was. She canceled it.


Oh, well that's all I need to hear. Stallion, I will give you my standard advice: Time to pack up, move along.

She is not interested in fixing this marriage. She is only interested in manipulating, gas-lighting, and being a petulant teenager, not a grown woman/wife.


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## Chuck71

Full steam ahead with D


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## bandit.45

Any new developments Stallion?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stallion1

had a few days with long hours and some fun with friends this weekend. I'll fill you in soon. Nothing big. been crazy busy with work!


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## LongWalk

> LW, right around 30ish. we have employees that do a lot of the stall cleaning and leading in and out. She does the training and works with people advertising. I work with the books, everything maintaining the grounds in and out.


So the investment is in the quality and training of the horses. It must take several years to get horse up to a level that they have value. She has been riding them everyday. Wow, a lot of work! Ideally the horses should be ridden regularly.

You have to look at all the feed bills, the vet costs, utilities, etc.

She ought to be filled with anxiety. The business is completely dependent on your joint effort. The questioning of your marriage is a mid life crisis in which she is planning the to scuttle her life's dream. Unfvcking believable.

Even if she wants divorce, she ought to giving you bj's just for keeping this going. It's not your life's dream to own a dressage stable?

How you stay so calm is beyond me. The mere fact that you are so calm must be impressing her that you are a character of some strength. Your reward is cancelled MC. What slap in the face.

The day that you bail on the marriage, basically you must liquidate. If you put your pension, I hate to think how nasty the settlement fight could get. The investor is going to ruin her reputation in the horse circles.

I wonder when she came up with you as the man in the business dream? How long after you were sleeping together did she start talking about it and convincing you to get on board?

How many of the horses did you buy together? Did the investor have to OK each purchase?


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## stallion1

LongWalk said:


> So the investment is in the quality and training of the horses. It must take several years to get horse up to a level that they have value. She has been riding them everyday. Wow, a lot of work! Ideally the horses should be ridden regularly.
> 
> she works her tail off. it does take a long time. Her work ethic is above any other person I know. not sure if its good or bad anymore!
> You have to look at all the feed bills, the vet costs, utilities, etc.
> 
> I do on a monthly basis.
> 
> She ought to be filled with anxiety. The business is completely dependent on your joint effort. The questioning of your marriage is a mid life crisis in which she is planning the to scuttle her life's dream. Unfvcking believable.
> 
> She is filled with anxiety. It is a joint effort. She didn't think originally that divorce would affect the business. I think she sees that now and maybe that is why she has been pleasant. Tough to see where her true feelings are right now.
> Even if she wants divorce, she ought to giving you bj's just for keeping this going. It's not your life's dream to own a dressage stable?
> 
> No sex and its not my lifes dream. I actually pay to keep my horse at another barn to get away and do reigning etc.
> How you stay so calm is beyond me. The mere fact that you are so calm must be impressing her that you are a character of some strength. Your reward is cancelled MC. What slap in the face.
> 
> staying calm because of the advice and I was directed to this site asap from a good friend. Thanks. It isn't easy.....Cancelled MC, well I could have predicted that so I wasn't to surprised.
> The day that you bail on the marriage, basically you must liquidate. If you put your pension, I hate to think how nasty the settlement fight could get. The investor is going to ruin her reputation in the horse circles.
> 
> I wonder when she came up with you as the man in the business dream? How long after you were sleeping together did she start talking about it and convincing you to get on board?
> 
> She didn't convince me. I offered the help and it snowballed from there........6 months
> How many of the horses did you buy together? Did the investor have to OK each purchase?


we had a couple previous to this. after the fact he oks the purchases with our knowledge as a factor. those are business owned. which we are both a part of 

we are both so busy right now its like the situation has been swept under the rug like it has been for the last couple years. Im as much at fault for this as she is. However, I think shes ok with it but im not and she knows im not happy but we both keep on......I know ive got some work to do.


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## LongWalk

Do you talk much about the business now?

You probably always praised her for the dedication she showed to the business. That positive feedback has probably fallen off. That may have caused her some self doubts.

How much longer can you stand the business partnership aspect without any joy in your marriage?

In your mind have you worked out a divorce settlement that would be fair? Is it conceivable that you can divorce and remain business partners?

Would you have to auction off the horses to get their "fair" value into cash? Sounds like it would lose money to me. 

When I saw my daughters taking those riding lessons I was definitely impressed with the idea that girls were eager to learn how to control animals that were more powerful than they were with a combination of love and cunning. They also learn to use force. I sure saw them hit horses to impose their dominance.

The crop doesn't come down lightly.

Dressage may not be a good model for a woman in getting along with her husband.


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## bandit.45

See ya around Stallion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: bucked off*



bandit.45 said:


> See ya around Stallion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Conclusion summed up in four words?


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## bandit.45

No. 

When he needs advice we'll be here for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky

Not what I meant. It sounded like you also thought it would be a while before we heard from him.


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## cbnero

Standing still might not necessarily be a bad thing. Let cooler heads prevail. As long as she isn't continuing to abuse you or cause more damage. She might eventually want to talk and have the right mindset. 

Or...

Nothing gets discussed and she puts you through more hell. 

Maybe put a time frame on your mind for her to either come around or get the heck out.

Just don't be a doormat. Not bringing up issues is not the same as resolving them.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## stallion1

LongWalk said:


> Do you talk much about the business now?
> 
> most of what we talk about is the business.
> You probably always praised her for the dedication she showed to the business. That positive feedback has probably fallen off. That may have caused her some self doubts.
> 
> yes.......
> 
> How much longer can you stand the business partnership aspect without any joy in your marriage?
> 
> Over the last few months I've realized business is business! our marriage is a separate issue and has to be dealt with as such. doesn't make it easy but it is what it is.
> 
> In your mind have you worked out a divorce settlement that would be fair? Is it conceivable that you can divorce and remain business partners?
> 
> divorce settlement that would be fair is I get half of everything she owns! She already took my half. yes we could remain business partners. I don't have a problem with that which makes me wonder why im still married!
> Would you have to auction off the horses to get their "fair" value into cash? Sounds like it would lose money to me.
> 
> whatever is in the horses is in the horses. I can wait for them to be sold for the best profit. as long as I see the contracts and checks that show the sale price. (any deception, I will find out) neither of us would hold on to a gummy bear gold mine just for spite. When the training is in and timing works good to sell they will be sold. not worried about it.
> 
> When I saw my daughters taking those riding lessons I was definitely impressed with the idea that girls were eager to learn how to control animals that were more powerful than they were with a combination of love and cunning. They also learn to use force. I sure saw them hit horses to impose their dominance.
> 
> The crop doesn't come down lightly.
> 
> for sure you want to make a horse know its place otherwise it will buck wild on you. the horse will learn to respect you if you handle it right. but to much whip and it will "buck you off" no matter what. a fine line! sounds familiar
> 
> Dressage may not be a good model for a woman in getting along with her husband.


yea too many people use whips on these gentle giants till they have had enough.!!!!!!!!!


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## stallion1

bandit.45 said:


> No.
> 
> When he needs advice we'll be here for him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


was at a friends this weekend. fun party. lots of old friends I keep in touch with a few times a year. One of the wives said where is .....? she is at a girl thing. Oh weird another gathering without her...........

yea she was rude in what she said but that's who she is and there was more said, I just summed it up. but my friends wife, although maybe a bit rude, was also right.

I gave up a lot of time with my friends over the last couple years and the stbx never wanted to hang out with them cause she was always "to busy". 

point is my good friends no matter what are still there for me, always have been always will. and I for them. 

bandit, thanks for being there! and the rest of you as well. No matter if I post everyday or once a week its nice to always have all of you still be here to help. 

Thanks TAM!


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## stallion1

cbnero said:


> Standing still might not necessarily be a bad thing. Let cooler heads prevail. As long as she isn't continuing to abuse you or cause more damage. She might eventually want to talk and have the right mindset.
> 
> she isn't abusing me, for the most part.....
> 
> Or...
> 
> Nothing gets discussed and she puts you through more hell.
> 
> nothing being discussed and she is not putting me through more hell
> 
> Maybe put a time frame on your mind for her to either come around or get the heck out.
> 
> Yes...........actually feel like she is coming around and im running the other way!
> 
> Just don't be a doormat. Not bringing up issues is not the same as resolving them.
> 
> not being a doormat. correct on not bringing up issues is not the same as resolving them. However, im into some heavy work loads and haven't had time to even think about it. so I can blame her for all of it. Im not making any effort either.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## cbnero

Is she still going forward with moving out next month? Or has she stopped bugging you since you refuse to engage her?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## bandit.45

It just sounds like you are in limbo. I can understand the pressures and time constraints of keeping a business afloat....

She won't make a move and you won't, so for now the two of you have this unspoken agreement to live in a loveless, platonic, business-like marriage. 

I guess if you are okay with this for the foreseeable future, then more power to you. 

I wouldn't want to live that way.


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## stallion1

yes in limbo, neither of us has made a decision to do anything. I own two businesses and its been crazy the last couple weeks which is easy to ignore the issue.

im not ok with it and I wont live that way. I will be dealing with things in a week. Im leaving for a fishing trip with the boys today and coming back sunday.

thanks for sticking with me!

CB ill talk to you when I get back.

Im going to go enjoy myself with 7 other dudes in tents and canoes in the cold north wilderness for the better part of a week! No phones no emails no drama no work..........no problem! I cant wait. It will be nice to get away for awhile, take a deep breath and get refreshed for the road ahead...
ill check in next week.


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## farsidejunky

Enjoy brother.


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## LongWalk

If she is cheating, there probably isn't much pleasure left in it anymore. You have pretty much revealed to her that marriage is hard work. She cannot escape that.


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## bandit.45

Have a good time on your trip.


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## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> If she is cheating, there probably isn't much pleasure left in it anymore. You have pretty much revealed to her that marriage is hard work. She cannot escape that.


dating is fun

marriage is work

grass can not grow where not watered


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## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> If she is cheating, there probably isn't much pleasure left in it anymore. You have pretty much revealed to her that marriage is hard work. She cannot escape that.


He hasn't really proved she's been cheating. All he has is that hotel reciept, and he seems reluctant to even confront her about it. 

I think he won't confront because I think he simply no longer wants to be married. I think Stallion has been so worn down by this spoiled, entitled princess and her deceitful behavior that he just really no longer cares about her or the marriage. 

I think failing at something is what irks Stallion. I get the sense he is a guy who takes pride in getting things done and overcoming odds. The fact that he has to accept that the marriage has failed is a bitter blow to his ego.


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## cbnero

It was to mine. I live hours away from my nearest family. Started a business, struggled, debt ridden, borrowed quarters from my kid's piggy jar and stole toilet paper from work just to get by for a few years. Now I finally make it big and she decides to leave? It pretty much broke me.

Stallion is same way, self made, do anything to help someone out. Of course he is going to be crapped on by his closest confidant. Why wouldn't he?

I just refreshed on NMMNG and now look at the ex as a business partner, nothing more. She can't rattle me or get to me anymore. I just don't care. I look at our marriage as a fraud and now this is my chance to do things my way. 

Theme song for May: Toby Keith, I want to talk about me.

Stallion, you're still winning, just at your own pace. Keep it up.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Chuck71

CB, in a psychological sense, it does not make sense


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## cbnero

What's that?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Chuck71

It was to mine. I live hours away from my nearest family. Started a business, struggled, debt ridden, borrowed quarters from my kid's piggy jar and stole toilet paper from work just to get by for a few years. Now I finally make it big and she decides to leave


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## cbnero

She claims she got worn out from all the stress of building a business with me. She had to work and sit in a model home every weekend just about. Mind you I was home with both kids by myself every weekend. The fall when she had an affair I was busting my hump and she didn't have to work anymore, at all. She could stay home with the kids, which was her dream job she said.

Well now she is a part time single parent, and sitting in a model home on the weekends she doesn't have the kids. I've been traveling and enjoying my weekends off. This summer I'm only working two or three days a week, the other days I'm staying home with my kids vs putting them in summer daycare. The ex asked again how I could take that much time of work. I told her I worked my a$$ off so their mom could stay home with them, but she didn't want the job. So now I'm taking it. 

But I'm sure to a woman it makes perfect sense. Still I hate to have a failed marriage. Lol but I'm getting over it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Chuck71

"for better or worse" not however you view it at your discretion


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## cbnero

That's what I thought we signed up for. But... oh well! Lol. Hopefully stallion has better outcome than me.

I'm a big time believer in looking at her parents. Hurt people hurt people. I know it isn't a 100% true but man it sure seems pretty accurate. Staying away from the ones from a broken home is a good start.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## happy as a clam

cbnero... I think it's AWESOME that you only have to work a few days per week AND still get to be a somewhat "Stay at Home Dad."

I love your line... she quit her job and you took it over (paraphrasing). BEST job in town...

Some people just don't really get how good they have it. Until it's all gone.

Don't mean to thread jack but Stallion's been very quiet. Hope he caught some great fish. Maybe we can all show up at the farm for a good old fashioned fish-fry!!

Taking reservations now for the Stallion Farm Fish Fry. PM me... 

:rofl: :lol:


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## bandit.45

I wonder how Stallion's wife is getting along running the ranch without him ? I bet she's going to be an ill-tempered, harried beotch when he gets back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero

I'm glad he's able to work while this is going on - it was crippling to me. But then my situation was much different with the confirmed cheating, gaslighting, false R. I'm glad he is informed in advance and continuing to worry about himself first.

Hopefully he comes back with a confident, cool head.

Clam Happy - thanks! I'm so excited to have the kids and give them what they deserve this summer. Kind of makes me not regret it at all. Otherwise I'd be at work and missing out on this important time of their life. I don't need a woman in my life to make me happy. At all.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Chuck71

cbnero said:


> That's what I thought we signed up for. But... oh well! Lol. Hopefully stallion has better outcome than me.
> 
> I'm a big time believer in looking at her parents. Hurt people hurt people. I know it isn't a 100% true but man it sure seems pretty accurate. Staying away from the ones from a broken home is a good start.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


if the Empire State Building was built with a poor foundation ....

it would have fallen long ago. Today's adults who came from a 

childhood with no sturdy foundation.... well we all know where

I'm going. Today's children will all be adults like us in 2035.

If our children have no foundation..... they could very well go

through the very thing we are blogging about right here. None

of us want a daughter to be a WAW or a son a WAH. When I 

reached a certain age, I evaluated how my parents raised me, 

we ALL do this. At 25, I forgave them. At 30, I accepted. At 35,

I thanked them. They did the best they could with what they had


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## movinonup

So I've been reading this thread for the last few days and finally caught up. Stallion, I believe I'm with everyone here (for the most part) and think unless you see big changes in the next day or two after you being gone for a while and having her really realize what single life would be like without you, then you should officially file. End it while you still have your dignity. She sounds like the most flip-flopping person and you don't want to nor should you have to go through that. I am all for saving a marriage, but to me it seems like you've tried, and once she finally agreed to mc then canceled it, that should be game over.

YOU made sure that certain items on the agenda could be worked around to make it to the mc, and if she chose to cancel it on you anyways then that should be a key hint right there. People always say on here, look at their actions, not their words. She is back and forth, loving you, missing you, hating you, yelling at you, is this worth it? If she loved you still, she would do all she can to make it work, and it simply hasn't happened. SHE canceled the marriage counseling day before, and didn't even tell you about it until you brought it up. Red flag.

This is IMHO, but I think it's done man. Time to move on. Stay proud. Stay strong. 180. And get the he** outta there.


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## bandit.45

Bumpity bump bump.


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## happy as a clam

I think Stallion may have left the barn...


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## farsidejunky

Cb: have you been keeping up with him?


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## tom67

happy as a clam said:


> i think stallion may have left the barn...


wilber!


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## long_done

Threads like this serve as a warning to men to never get married. If only I had read threads like this before I got married.

I wish heterosexual marriage was banned... I would be so much better off today.


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## Chuck71

long_done said:


> Threads like this serve as a warning to men to never get married. If only I had read threads like this before I got married.
> 
> I wish heterosexual marriage was banned... I would be so much better off today.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl::rofl:

not all are this way but I admit, after reading these forums

you begin to think so. A lot has to do with poor choices at young

ages. The type of woman I enjoy now, I would not have dated

twenty years ago. The ones I liked then, I run from now


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## cbnero

No update, I know he's been busy with work so I haven't had a chance to talk to him in a few weeks, playing phone tag. 

I'll keep you posted as I'm sure I'll connect with him in the next few days. 

Is no news good news?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk

My guess is he is detached/detaching so he wants to take a break from TAM.

If his wife had changed her tune, he would have come back and told us.


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## bandit.45

He got what he needed and left. Nothing wrong with that.


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## cbnero

I talked to Stallion the other day... hope he is OK me giving you an update. He has been extremely busy with work. Basically he told her it's been about her and he's done with it. Sounds like the reality check brought her around. No quick fix or anything, and when things slow down with work soon they are going to counseling. 

I'm glad he was able to disconnect from her train wreck of emotions and stand still and not engage. Seems to have worked in his case. 

That's all I have for you for now.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## happy as a clam

LongWalk said:


> My guess is he is detached/detaching so he wants to take a break from TAM.


Nope, my guess is things are just trudging along as they always have. He's too busy to deal with it right now, she's too selfish to really give a d*mn about his feelings.

CB said they are going to counseling soon, but what has really changed? I suspect Stallion will remain in this limbo for a long time.


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## Chuck71

happy as a clam said:


> Nope, my guess is things are just trudging along as they always have. He's too busy to deal with it right now, she's too selfish to really give a d*mn about his feelings.
> 
> CB said they are going to counseling soon, but what has really changed? I suspect Stallion will remain in this limbo for a long time.


another sh1tty day in paradise huh


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## stallion1

I have been swamped with work. Have not had time to deal with anything but that. Talked to CB a week ago and things seemed fine. but happy, I fear, had it right. Limbo, going on as usual, nothing really changed, just me doing a little sweeping. Ive gone back to ignoring the signs and actions. Shes continued to play the blame game etc. when I confront her on the issues or not even confront but bring up my plan of actually correcting the issues that cause our marriage to fail. Sad. Im hiding behind my insane work schedule right now. Should be better in a few weeks. So ill check in off and on but know that I Thank you all again and im not checking out of TAM just working a lot.


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## happy as a clam

Great to hear from you Stallion! Just know that we are all here when you need us... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Up date?


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## Wolf9

One of most striking thing in this thread was OP having epiphany of wanting children during that brief phase of 180 but it looks like he's going to rationalize not having them to accommodate his W's decision. If marriage is healthy & plus points outweighs not having children then I can understand his sacrifice. 

Just hoping that he won't regret this decision 15 or 20 years in future & will think about it during R.


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## cbnero

Pot is boiling over. I'll see if he is coming back online here or not. Your guesses as to what she is like / how things are going - are probably accurate.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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