# Toxic Friends



## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

This is a point that has come up on several different threads that I have read and I just wanted to get some insight on to how may WS have had toxic friends that have helped, aided, abetted, assisted or added to the downfall of a marriage.

My EX had a very toxic friend. She was what my wife called her best friend as she lived 3 houses down. She and I did not get along well. She liked to start arguments with me and I did not engage. She was decent to me but definitely not someone I would hang around with, ever...

Her personality on a Winnie the Pooh scale was that of EOR. She was always negative, always complaining, always wanting something more out of her life... I am not a fan of people like that. You make a choice and you don't like the consequences... whatever...

So when I had my Dday, my psyche was shattered. I was in the 'Save what I have' mode for a while. It took me a few weeks to find myself. It would have definitely been different if we did not have children together.

We did go to MC and come to find out. In MC I got the passwords to her email. She deleted all of her emails but I was able to get a few that were not and they were from this woman. I come to find out that she knew my wife was having an affair. She had been constantly undermining our marriage. I had no clue about this. My EX would go over a drink wine at her house once a week and I was fine with it. I didn't want to be there but my EX seemed happy and so I didn't realize it was just a huge ***** session.

The email I found was that they needed to talk, my EX and the toxic friend... M... is going out of town for work and K... is coming in town.

When we were separated, my EX lived with her for a few months... 3 doors down, very retarded... I cut her off financially. My EX would want my kids to go over there. She was hoping that my youngest and the daughter of her toxic friend would be bf/gf... I squashed that.

I told my kids what this woman did. I made it known to them that while she was not the downfall of our marriage, she had no right interfering into our marriage and that is not something that should be overlooked.

My kids took some of their anger out on her. They stopped being friends with her children. The woman decided that she needed to move so they moved away. I was very happy with that. I moved a month later.

It has been the ongoing thought that one of my old neighbors and I have is that this woman was miserable and was having an affair vicariously through my wife. It was nice for her. Misery loves company. She would not be affected by the devastation she helped bring. I will actually close my book on them after my custody battle is ended.

I had told my EX that this person who was considered to be her best friend was not a friend at all. My EX and her best friend do not speak to one another any more. It is amazing and so easily foreseeable that after the affair was over the toxic friend had no more use for my EX. My EX and this toxic friend are not friends any more. I guess that was another dose of reality for my EX.

I am just amazed at how many WS have had toxic friends. I don't hang around guys who don't have my morals. I just don't. It's simple. I was just curious as to how pervasive the toxic friends are in the affairs or not.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Was said 'friend' divorced?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's my own experience that these toxic types generally don't have lasting friendships. They usually do whatever damage they can and then move on to the next juicy opportunity for vicarious drama. 

I think women who actually have long-term friendships with toxic friends like this are exceptional and are themselves dysfunctional or broken to some extent. It's a symbiotic relationship. Healthier psyches learn to stay away from underminers like your xW's friend.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Was said 'friend' divorced?


She was not divorced, but she was always unhappy. I always had a distaste for her. I just don't like people who complain all the time instead of being happy with what they do have.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Has your ex ever really expressed her remorse to you for what she did? Did she ever wake up to what she did to you and your kids?

Is she with the OM now living happily ever after?


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

My H has always gravitated toward those toxic friends. His toxic friend at the time was the one who watched this EA go on, heard my husband make sexually explicit comments about this woman, and said nothing. That issue came up in counseling, that he doesn't choose friends well because he's too worried about impressing others (well, everyone but me). The "cool kids" were always the ones he wanted to befriend, and obviously they were never good influences. He has a dependent personality disorder, though. I'm like you, why would I want to impress a bunch of idiots or people who don't have the same morals I do? I can't understand it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I've seen BS's burned by having toxic friends themselves too - especially male BS's who were betrayed by their "best friend" sleeping with their wives. We've seen those threads where the BS never calls a good friend out for being a womanizer and listening to the stories of their good buddy's "latest conquest". In these cases, the BS is typically a "nice guy" who is friends with a "bad boy", so they live vicariously thru their friend. They even can be naive to think that their good friends live by the mantra "bros before ho's", so their BFF/good buddy is never thought of as the guy who will sleep with the BS's wife because..."they're such good friends".

Ultimately we are reminded about the story of the scorpion who wanted to cross the river. While a toxic friend can definitely contribute to a spouse becoming a WS or fueling the WS's cheating, a toxic friend can easily affect a BS negatively too. I think in a more general sense a toxic friend will hurt no matter what. He/she can get you hooked on drugs, make you an alcoholic and turn your back on your family in addition to infidelity.


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## heartbroken0426 (Dec 4, 2013)

My STBXH had toxic relationships that aided in his affair. When my STBXH met his now mistress, his brother was with him. Later when the mistress came in to town to visit my STBXH, the two of them along with his brother and his brother's girlfriend went to a bar to watch a college game. Obviously the brother had to issues with my STBXH having an affair even to the point of the brother and his girlfriend coming to my home before I found out about the affair and them talking to me and carrying on like nothing. My STBXH also has a co-worker/friend who is shaddy and has done questionable things in his relationships.

The people who my STBXH have stayed away from with this affair are his friends that would have problems with the affair and would try to reason with him and stop him. Obviously, my STBXH didn't let them in on the affair.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

You will find a lot more toxic friends show up when the relationships are restricted to the internet.

People are a lot more inclined to contaminate in a secret chatroom or mail account from the safety of their home if it's far away.

I can't believe how many people out there offer the most outrageously unbalanced advice at the most critical times in a person's life. It's just ridiculous.

If this neighbor was a friend to the marriage, she would have spoken to both of you, in confidence with repair as her goal. Not just one person, in secret, without confirming anything from your perspective first.

I find it interesting how few people explicitly indicate what their goal is when offering advice.

Many just spit out what comes to mind without even warning the listener : "hey, i want your marriage dead and buried, so I am going to direct you in that path"

If people were that explicit to start with i think fewer people would listen to them.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> *It's my own experience that these toxic types generally don't have lasting friendships.* They usually do whatever damage they can and then move on to the next juicy opportunity for vicarious drama.
> 
> I think women who actually have long-term friendships with toxic friends like this are exceptional and are themselves dysfunctional or broken to some extent. It's a symbiotic relationship. Healthier psyches learn to stay away from underminers like your xW's friend.


I don't think it's that straightforward. People who I thought were toxic, at least with me, and had to get rid of still have long enduring friendships with other people. Since I am a member of a couple of organisations, I am still kind of in touch with those people.

I also don't think it's healthy to assume that if you've had a toxic experience with that person, that they are necessarily that way with everyone else.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

It's not that the person is toxic, its their involvement strategy.

They can contribute, working towards marital repair, confiding equally with both parties...

OR they can contaminate, working against marital repair, confiding with only one part in secret while offering fake smiles to the other


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

I don't know about "toxic", but one of my WW "friends" let my wife use her apartment at lunch so my WW and the POSOM could have sex. And she knew they were having sex and still gave my WW a key to the apartment in case of "emergencies". This is one reason I could never prove my WW was in a PA, she just told me she was having lunch with her friend and it was only once a week so I never suspected anything. I knew where my wife was most of the time besides that, so I couldn't figure out how she could be having PA. I don't know what goes through some people minds. 

Other friends knew, but said nothing. Maybe not toxic, but they are no longer friends of mine.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

HarryDoyle said:


> I don't know about "toxic", but one of my WW "friends" let my wife use her apartment at lunch so my WW and the POSOM could have sex. And she knew they were having sex and still gave my WW a key to the apartment in case of "emergencies". This is one reason I could never prove my WW was in a PA, she just told me she was having lunch with her friend and it was only once a week so I never suspected anything. I knew where my wife was most of the time besides that, so I couldn't figure out how she could be having PA. I don't know what goes through some people minds.
> 
> Other friends knew, but said nothing. Maybe not toxic, but they are no longer friends of mine.


Yes, I would call someone's behavior toxic if they loan their apartment to people so they could use it as a cheaters den.

Those are not friend's those are conspirators.

Some people just never graduated high school.

That's akin to harboring fugitives.


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## kitty2013 (Dec 6, 2013)

I know a lady who is dating with a married man. She used to work with me. She has a 4 years old child with that married man. I think the wife has no idea about the affair. I do not know the wife. I know where her husband works. I believe the married guy and this lady are still seeing each other. 
I have 3 options:
1. Still be friends with this lady because she is a nice friend to me (Listening to stories related to her affair is toxic to my mind)
2. Investigate about the wife and inform her about her husband's affair (which will be VERY hard)
3. Cut this lady completely off from my life (Her personal life is none of my business)

P/S: I feel bad for the wife.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I say out the whole mess and be done with her.

You may feel bad outing the mess, but you will feel worse if the wife ends up with an STD.

Before you out her though, what is the risk of harm to yourself here if you out her?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

kitty2013 said:


> I know a lady who is dating with a married man. She used to work with me. She has a 4 years old child with that married man. I think the wife has no idea about the affair. I do not know the wife. I know where her husband works. I believe the married guy and this lady are still seeing each other.
> I have 3 options:
> 1. Still be friends with this lady because she is a nice friend to me (Listening to stories related to her affair is toxic to my mind)
> 2. Investigate about the wife and inform her about her husband's affair (which will be VERY hard)
> ...


Go for option 3.


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## kitty2013 (Dec 6, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> *I say out the whole mess and be done with her.*
> 
> You may feel bad outing the mess, but you will feel worse if the wife ends up with an STD.
> 
> Before you out her though, what is the risk of harm to yourself here if you out her?


I think that is a great idea. 

This lady truly loves that married guy. She works very hard to support herself and the kid. He is the only man in her life.

I do not know the wife. From my friend's stories, I know the wife is an immigrant who does not speak the same language as I do. I would have a hard time communicating with the wife. I have no idea where to find the wife anyway. I do not even know what she looks like. 

If I expose the affair, that married guy will find me and who knows what will happen. I am sure he knows how to find me.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

My SIL, a cheater, has two toxic girlfriends/coworkers. Both are miserable in their marriages. 

GF#1-When I met her and her husband, I told my husband, "I think he's gay". Later we find out that they are in an arranged marriage only to have kids. They only had sex to conceive and now have two kids, so they no longer have sex.
GF#2-She is funny and outgoing, her husband acts like he smokes weed 24/7, I think he's fried his brain cells, and he quit his secure teaching job to sell multi level marketing insurance or something. She had a ONS on a girl's trip to Vegas.

While my SIL made her own choices, I think being friends with these two women influenced her and they worked on her to be miserable like them. They've actually helped out babysitting my nieces, (BIL is at work), so she can go out with the OM.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> My SIL, a cheater, has two toxic girlfriends/coworkers. Both are miserable in their marriages.
> 
> GF#1-When I met her and her husband, I told my husband, "I think he's gay". Later we find out that they are in an arranged marriage only to have kids. They only had sex to conceive and now have two kids, so they no longer have sex.
> GF#2-She is funny and outgoing, her husband acts like he smokes weed 24/7, I think he's fried his brain cells, and he quit his secure teaching job to sell multi level marketing insurance or something. She had a ONS on a girl's trip to Vegas.
> ...


Ever consider outing the cheating SIL?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> My SIL, a cheater, has two toxic girlfriends/coworkers. Both are miserable in their marriages.
> 
> GF#1-When I met her and her husband, I told my husband, "I think he's gay". Later we find out that they are in an arranged marriage only to have kids. They only had sex to conceive and now have two kids, so they no longer have sex.
> GF#2-She is funny and outgoing, her husband acts like he smokes weed 24/7, I think he's fried his brain cells, and he quit his secure teaching job to sell multi level marketing insurance or something. She had a ONS on a girl's trip to Vegas.
> ...


Did they divorce?


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

How about toxic family members? Eldest step-daughter and FWH's XOW were friends, and their children are still friends (they are 8yrs old and have no idea). I read a text from my FWH to his daughter "She needs to work it out with her H" Step-D "She can't he's an a**hole. I wish I could just text Calmwinds and tell her to give you up". I also credit her for the pictures I was able to obtain.

Several months into our R, Step-D was spending the evening with us and over a glass of wine, said, "You know, I admire you. You're such a strong woman after everything you've been through with Dad" 

She had believed OW's drama and lies also and had been completely sucked in. She and H have always been close, and do-or-die, she will always have his back, right or wrong. She has tried very hard to get back in my good graces. I can only forgive one person at a time. It's not her turn.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Sometimes toxic friends get the karma they deserve.

Take my wife's best friend. They were thick as thieves. I later found out that she was actively encouraging my wife to look for other men.

Well my wife finally found another man - this toxic friend's husband. They had a 2 year PA before I caught them.

But this friend was more than just toxic. She found out about this A, two months before I did - and said nothing to me. During those two months, she thought she had her husband corralled; but she believed everything the POSOM told her and he easily continued the A underground - until I found out. Then he threw my wife under the bus.

But here's the unbelievable part. Despite the mountain of evidence I threw her way, this "friend" tried desperately to remain friends with my wife; denying to me that this was a PA, telling my wife that I was being controlling and emotionally abusive. To say that she is a pathetic, co-dependent loser, would be an understatement. Some people have no notion of self respect.

I had to insist that my wife write her a no contact letter. Haven't heard from her in a year and a half.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Really good subject.

My wife's best friend helped facilitate her affair. I can't prove this but I have very strong evidence that she covered for my wife while wife and OM went off one night several years ago. I saw a text come through that said "I'm home now. Make sure you erase all my other texts so you don't get in trouble". The sad thing is I actually thought it was a good sign when my wife set up things to do with her BFF and husband. I thought it was a "good" sign. What an idiot I was. I recently unfriended her and her husband from FB and removed their info from my phone.

As far as family's go my MIL got my wife a burner phone during the affair. This was back before I knew ANYTHING about affairs. I believed my MIL when she told me I was invading my wife's privacy by looking at her phone. How naive was I?

Toxic friends and toxic families!!

I wondered for the longest time why NO ONE called my wife to the carpet and told her she was an idiot for doing what she was doing. Come to find out my wife played the big ol victim card about how unhappy she was and how she'd given up everything for her mean husband throughout the marriage, yada yada yada.

Older and wiser now.


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## Quixotic (Jan 22, 2014)

MovingAhead said:


> This is a point that has come up on several different threads that I have read and I just wanted to get some insight on to how may WS have had toxic friends that have helped, aided, abetted, assisted or added to the downfall of a marriage.
> 
> My EX had a very toxic friend. She was what my wife called her best friend as she lived 3 houses down. She and I did not get along well. She liked to start arguments with me and I did not engage. She was decent to me but definitely not someone I would hang around with, ever...
> 
> ...


I can tell you that my circumstance was facilitated through a couple that were friends with us as a couple... and I have a whole bag of FU I dunno what to do with on that front.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I've read a few things that suggested that the Queen Mother helped Prince Charles to cover for his assignations with Camilla.


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