# I cheathed and I need your help



## justlost891

Hello, I'm reaching out to you all as I have been reading this forum for a few days and hope you can provide some much needed advice.

Both my husband and I are in our 30s and married for almost 8 years. We have no kids together. Here's the background story:
A couple of years ago due to his work, my husband was away for a few months, and during that time I developed a romantic relationship with a man who was up until that point a friend. During that time I was intimate with this man, and even brought him home as well. 
When my husband returned home there was an opportunity for us to relocate to another city, and at that moment though I had an option to relocate by myself to a different part of the country, I made the conscious decision to follow him and hopefully be able to put it all behind.
A few months went by and we had a weekend trip planned to go back to the city where I had the affair. I arrived a couple of days before he did and one night out with friends, I met with the man I had an affair with, was extremely weak and was intimate with him one last time. This time, this was purely sex, and in my head, I was still only emotionally invested in my husband.
My husband had a strong suspicion about this and confronted me with the question. At that moment, I really wanted to spare him the pain and thought it would be best to deny everything. Again, and I know what most of you are thinking, I considered this last incident as a relapse, but knew who I wanted to be with and didn't want to lose my life partner.
At this point, I stopped all contact with the other man and blocked his number on my cellphone. However, after a few months, he reached out to me via social media (we weren't connected on social media before this point) and told me he was diagnosed with cancer and was going through a rough time. At the beginning, I ignored his messages but at one point, and I know I shouldn't have, felt terrible for his situation and started talking to him again - strictly as a friend - to try and help him through the situation.
At present, we're looking at a timeline of almost two years since the beginning of the 4 month affair. Over a year since our last sexual encounter, and maybe six months since I learned about his illness.

A month ago, while preparing to move back to the city where it all started, my husband was already there and I was in the other city taking care of the move. One of my last days at work, my phone starting blowing up. It was my husband, who, I don't know how, had read all the Facebook messages I had received from this other man and realized about the affair (the other man mentions understanding my choice to move on with my husband despite him wanting a life together with me).

I've since moved back to the city where my husband is, luckily our rental apartment has two bedrooms so we agreed to each take our own. He told me he doesn't think being able to move past this and is seriously considering divorce, but we also both agreed to first take care of our finances and be able to make this as amicable as possible.

What truly devastates me is knowing I brought him so much pain, during a stressful time in his life on the work front. I don't know what to do to help him. He has been avoiding me like a plague, which I understand and have been trying to give him space. He has gone through great lengths to not see me at home - he goes out to dinner until late so he makes sure I am already sleeping when he comes home, and over the weekends he just disappears for hours at the time. I am constantly worried about him and think something could happen to him and I wouldn't know it because I am trying to give him the space he needs and not ask where he is. Every day I stop myself from texting him to see how he's doing, so the last couple of days I left him two letters on his night stand to hopefully be able to open up the communication between us. I would like to at least be able to take some of that pain away from him, give him an output for his anger/rage/sadness whatever it may be. It is unfair for him to be in this situation because I put him there and I feel horrible that there is not much I can do right now to help in anyway possible.

Please, help me - I need to understand how to approach him. Though I hope that with time we may be able to push through and come out on the other side in our relationship, I respect his current course of action and my ultimate goal right now is to make this at least a bit easier on him.

What advice would you be able to provide me at this time?


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## BarbedFenceRider

Your husband is in NC. He is getting out of infidelity. You are cake eating. You first state that you want to keep your marriage but for the last 4 years, you have done anything but. Then as he is preparing divorce....Do you drop everything and throw yourself at his feet for love and reconnection? NOPE...You start dividing up assets. This relationship is toast. There is NOTHING you can do or capable to do for your once "life partner". Give him his space. And don't fight him in divorce. Own up to your faults and move on. He needs to cut the ties that bind. It is for his health and sanity. Get into counseling and find what is going on in your life, that you find SO attractive in other partners and ruining fidelity and trust. You may be surprised!

I am sorry for your loss. And I am not going to pile on you. We are human after all our failings. Make yourself a better person and give him peace...A little of true remorse later when the dust settles would be nice. But, he is not counting on it. He wants out.


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## MyRevelation

At this point, just offer him an uncontested divorce. You have no kids or real estate, just some "stuff" to divide and release him from his pain.

I've been cheated on and D'd and I've been cheated on and currently in R ... D was by far much easier to recover and heal. They were at different life stages and the first betrayal was much worse than the last ... your situation is much closer to my first, so I would strongly consider just "calling the M on the account of infidelity" and moving on with both of your lives.


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## re16

He will never view you the same and he shouldn't.

Your actions and justifications were extremely selfish.

Let him go.


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## justlost891

BarbedFenceRider said:


> Your husband is in NC. He is getting out of infidelity. You are cake eating. You first state that you want to keep your marriage but for the last 4 years, you have done anything but. Then as he is preparing divorce....Do you drop everything and throw yourself at his feet for love and reconnection? NOPE...You start dividing up assets. This relationship is toast. There is NOTHING you can do or capable to do for your once "life partner". Give him his space. And don't fight him in divorce. Own up to your faults and move on. He needs to cut the ties that bind. It is for his health and sanity. Get into counseling and find what is going on in your life, that you find SO attractive in other partners and ruining fidelity and trust. You may be surprised!
> 
> I am sorry for your loss. And I am not going to pile on you. We are human after all our failings. Make yourself a better person and give him peace...A little of true remorse later when the dust settles would be nice. But, he is not counting on it. He wants out.


Thank you for your input. I would like to point out that though I see how it may look like I didn't even try to fight for him and sounds like I just decided to divide assets, that is not the case. I have been trying to let him know that I want to work to regain his trust and that I would love for him to allow me the chance to recover our relationship. However, I think that the ball is in his court and he has the right to call the shots. That is why I agreed to abide by his decision to try and sort out our finances. I don't want to fight him, I want to fight FOR him, but I am unsure of how to go about doing that without invading the space he clearly so much needs right now.


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## BigToe

I'm struck by your comment, "I don't know what to do to help him". If you were my wife I would want you to start, by stopping all contact with the other man. His cancer is nothing that you can control or help with effectively since you had an affair with him. He is not a friend, he is an ex-lover. What's more important to you, helping this ex-lover deal with his cancer...or your marriage. Answer that question and you'll know exactly what you can do to help your husband deal with this issue.


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## TAMAT

One mistake waywards make is that they continue to lie, they minimize, omit details, blame their betrayed spouse, protect the OM and etc. 

Another is trickle truth, a first it's only kissing, then they admit to oral, then full piv, then to spending money on the OM. At some point the betrayed spouse feels he will never get the whole truth and just gives up.

Write out an honest timeline with all the details and give it to your H.

Have you apologized to the OMs wife or SO?

Tamat


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## justlost891

MyRevelation said:


> At this point, just offer him an uncontested divorce. You have no kids or real estate, just some "stuff" to divide and release him from his pain.
> 
> I've been cheated on and D'd and I've been cheated on and currently in R ... D was by far much easier to recover and heal. They were at different life stages and the first betrayal was much worse than the last ... your situation is much closer to my first, so I would strongly consider just "calling the M on the account of infidelity" and moving on with both of your lives.


Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. I understand the divorce is the easiest route, however I truly believe we are better together, and understanding this is all my fault, I would love the opportunity to at least try and regain his trust. Like I said, I have let him decide what he wants to do and will not fight him on it.
May I ask, are you regretting trying to recover your relationship?


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## justlost891

BigToe said:


> I'm struck by your comment, "I don't know what to do to help him". If you were my wife I would want you to start, by stopping all contact with the other man. His cancer is nothing that you can control or help with effectively since you had an affair with him. He is not a friend, he is an ex-lover. What's more important to you, helping this ex-lover deal with his cancer...or your marriage. Answer that question and you'll know exactly what you can do to help your husband deal with this issue.


Thank you for your answer. It was my mistake, I did not include the fact that I have stopped all communication with the other man the day this all blew up. My marriage is definitely more important.


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## justlost891

TAMAT said:


> One mistake waywards make is that they continue to lie, they minimize, omit details, blame their betrayed spouse, protect the OM and etc.
> 
> Another is trickle truth, a first it's only kissing, then they admit to oral, then full piv, then to spending money on the OM. At some point the betrayed spouse feels he will never get the whole truth and just gives up.
> 
> Write out an honest timeline with all the details and give it to your H.
> 
> Have you apologized to the OMs wife or SO?
> 
> Tamat


Thank you Tamat for your input on this situation. I have gone over the timeline with my husband when he asked, the day after he found out. The other man is single and doesn't have a SO.


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## Evinrude58

My advice:

Realize that your husband has zero reason to trust you ever again, and trust is a HUGE factor in a relationship. You have given him incredible piles of reasons to know that he CANNOT trust you.
He also is totally devastated and has likely lost his bearings in life and doesn't know what he did wrong to cause this and if loving a person is all a fairy tale, and that love is not something that is enduring. You've traumatized this man in ways you will never understand. SO......... 

If you do actually care about your husband, in spite of the actions of a woman that really places no value whatsoever in her husband, give him a fast, equitable, uncontested divorce. Perhaps if you show a little character in the divorce, there may be a way months or years down the road for him to forgive you and attempt to have a relationship with you again.

However, in all honesty, after your long affair and repeated "mistakes" that you acknowledge----- If I were his friend, I would encourage him to stay clear of you due to the pattern of repeated behavior that you've shown.

If you want your husband back........ You need to talk to him and give him a reasonable explanation of every single thing you did and why he should ever trust you again. If you can't work things out with him, go to counseling and find out why you have no boundaries and allowed this person to tempt you--- and why you were tempted to start off with.
I personally don't think that you really care for him that much.


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## justlost891

Evinrude58 said:


> My advice:
> 
> Realize that your husband has zero reason to trust you ever again, and trust is a HUGE factor in a relationship. You have given him incredible piles of reasons to know that he CANNOT trust you.
> He also is totally devastated and has likely lost his bearings in life and doesn't know what he did wrong to cause this and if loving a person is all a fairy tale, and that love is not something that is enduring. You've traumatized this man in ways you will never understand. SO.........
> 
> If you do actually care about your husband, in spite of the actions of a woman that really places no value whatsoever in her husband, give him a fast, equitable, uncontested divorce. Perhaps if you show a little character in the divorce, there may be a way months or years down the road for him to forgive you and attempt to have a relationship with you again.
> 
> However, in all honesty, after your long affair and repeated "mistakes" that you acknowledge----- If I were his friend, I would encourage him to stay clear of you due to the pattern of repeated behavior that you've shown.
> 
> If you want your husband back........ You need to talk to him and give him a reasonable explanation of every single thing you did and why he should ever trust you again. If you can't work things out with him, go to counseling and find out why you have no boundaries and allowed this person to tempt you--- and why you were tempted to start off with.
> I personally don't think that you really care for him that much.


Thank you Evinrude58. I appreciate your words. Truth be told, if I were his friend I would advise him the same thing. I didn't refer to my infidelity as a mistake like you put it. I don't use that word because I understand now, that wasn't a mistake but rather a selfish decision I made.
I care deeply for my husband and only want what's best for him, and that is why I am currently trying to do whatever will help him. Though it may not be what I want, it is what he wants, and I respect that.


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## BarbedFenceRider

You are still in a fog. You feel the need to direct this relationship. I'm sorry but that right has been taken away from you. You want your security, you want your lifestyle not messed up. But you do NOT want him particularly. You had a serious 2nd. relationship with OM. Then later had crazy monkey sex. You cannot be friends with him, if you truly want your husband. And you already knew this. But somehow, you were to give enough mental gymnastics to allow him in your social media. You messaged and emailed him. And you went to console him on his cancer. If it was truly about your husband months ago, you would NOT kept up the idea of a "friendzone'd" prior boyfriend. 

I still say that this relationship is toast. 4 years of bull sh*t, is too much to swallow. But if you are truly repentant. Nuke this marriage and possibly start over. ie..Casual, dating, serious relationship and such.... It has happened before. There is always hope. But to try to revive this DOA marriage....Nah, not feeling it. Work on you, work on being a better for the next relationship, if not your EX-hubby...Best of luck.

There is a book you may want to look into..."How to help your spouse heal from your affair".
.


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## MyRevelation

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. I understand the divorce is the easiest route, however I truly believe we are better together, and understanding this is all my fault, I would love the opportunity to at least try and regain his trust. Like I said, I have let him decide what he wants to do and will not fight him on it.
> May I ask, are you regretting trying to recover your relationship?


I think you're asking the wrong question. Your situation is more like my previous M ... and extended full blown A ... and I DO NOT regret ending that one and moving on. It really was the only viable option for me.

This time it was an isolated, one time drunken incident on a girls only tropical vacation, which cost my W her two longest (20+ years each) term girl friends, her ability to EVER go on another girls only trip, a diminished place in my heart after her hard crash from the pedestal I had placed her on, and apparently a permanent loss of my trust in her. However, to answer your question, I don't regret my decision to R, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't question it on occasion. 

With all that said, if you truly are sorry for your actions and want to make true amends to your BH, cut him loose and let him reclaim his life.


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## Marc878

The reality is its your husbands decision now. It really doesn't matter what you want. 

Just like your decision to have an affair. Your husband wasn't given a choice.

Cheating is devastating. More so than the death of a close relative.

His actions show he's detaching from you. At this time just being around you is a trigger of your affair.

For some it is a deal breaker. If that's the case here and no one knows for sure its out of your hands.

You might want to get into IC. If not for this relationship then for your next one. Cheating seems to repeat. Try and fix yourself so you don't do a repeat.


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## justlost891

BarbedFenceRider said:


> You are still in a fog. You feel the need to direct this relationship. I'm sorry but that right has been taken away from you. You want your security, you want your lifestyle not messed up. But you do NOT want him particularly. You had a serious 2nd. relationship with OM. Then later had crazy monkey sex. You cannot be friends with him, if you truly want your husband. And you already knew this. But somehow, you were to give enough mental gymnastics to allow him in your social media. You messaged and emailed him. And you went to console him on his cancer. If it was truly about your husband months ago, you would NOT kept up the idea of a "friendzone'd" prior boyfriend.
> 
> I still say that this relationship is toast. 4 years of bull sh*t, is too much to swallow. But if you are truly repentant. Nuke this marriage and possibly start over. ie..Casual, dating, serious relationship and such.... It has happened before. There is always hope. But to try to revive this DOA marriage....Nah, not feeling it. Work on you, work on being a better for the next relationship, if not your EX-hubby...Best of luck.
> 
> There is a book you may want to look into..."How to help your spouse heal from your affair".
> .


I understand what you say about me trying to direct this relationship. I also understand what you say when that right is no longer mine, trust me. That is why I am trying to follow what my husband is deciding.
I'm not sure where you are getting the 4 years from, perhaps it was my poor writing but the original affair was 4 months, 2 years ago. Not that it makes any difference, I just wanted to clarify that point.
I will definitely look into that book, this type of advice is what I'm seeking at the moment. Thank you.


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## SentHereForAReason

First of all, I appreciate you writing here and taking some responsibility and being mostly open and honest.

Second of all, every effort you thought you made to make the marriage work or better was followed up with something that did 5x the amount of damage to your marriage. You tried to make yourself believe it was one last time, or you did this because or that because but the bottom line is that you weren't strong enough to stay away from OM and that is where you need to get help. What are you missing in yourself that you needed this OM in your life and that it would cause you to betray your husband in the cruelest way possible.

As someone suggested, I would give him the truth on everything, tell him how you feel, don't try to justify anything, apologize, say how you understand why he is doing what is doing and if you really love him, you will let him do what he needs to do. 

For the best for both of you
- cease all contact with OM, tell him you are sorry what he's going through but you need to do what you need to do, this will be your last message to him
- start looking into what is fair for you in the divorce, be amicable 
- setup a support system of people you know and can trust, tell them the absolute truth, the will help
- if you try to influence your husband in any way at this point, it's only going to backfire, just let him be and be cordial and kind

I know you led yourself to believe certain things but I must get back to, even though you did things that you thought were for the marriage, the amount of love and thoughts that you had in your system were not nearly enough in favor of your husband even consider that you tried what you could to make this work. Admit that, get past that, forgive yourself but don't forget and get help on why you needed this, why you thought it was ok to betray vows and yourself, to be honest.


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## Pepe1970

justlost891 said:


> Hello, I'm reaching out to you all as I have been reading this forum for a few days and hope you can provide some much needed advice.
> 
> Both my husband and I are in our 30s and married for almost 8 years. We have no kids together. Here's the background story:
> A couple of years ago due to his work, my husband was away for a few months, and during that time I developed a romantic relationship with a man who was up until that point a friend. During that time I was intimate with this man, and even brought him home as well.
> When my husband returned home there was an opportunity for us to relocate to another city, and at that moment though I had an option to relocate by myself to a different part of the country, I made the conscious decision to follow him and hopefully be able to put it all behind.
> A few months went by and we had a weekend trip planned to go back to the city where I had the affair. I arrived a couple of days before he did and one night out with friends, I met with the man I had an affair with, was extremely weak and was intimate with him one last time. This time, this was purely sex, and in my head, I was still only emotionally invested in my husband.
> My husband had a strong suspicion about this and confronted me with the question. At that moment, I really wanted to spare him the pain and thought it would be best to deny everything. Again, and I know what most of you are thinking, I considered this last incident as a relapse, but knew who I wanted to be with and didn't want to lose my life partner.
> At this point, I stopped all contact with the other man and blocked his number on my cellphone. However, after a few months, he reached out to me via social media (we weren't connected on social media before this point) and told me he was diagnosed with cancer and was going through a rough time. At the beginning, I ignored his messages but at one point, and I know I shouldn't have, felt terrible for his situation and started talking to him again - strictly as a friend - to try and help him through the situation.
> At present, we're looking at a timeline of almost two years since the beginning of the 4 month affair. Over a year since our last sexual encounter, and maybe six months since I learned about his illness.
> 
> A month ago, while preparing to move back to the city where it all started, my husband was already there and I was in the other city taking care of the move. One of my last days at work, my phone starting blowing up. It was my husband, who, I don't know how, had read all the Facebook messages I had received from this other man and realized about the affair (the other man mentions understanding my choice to move on with my husband despite him wanting a life together with me).
> 
> I've since moved back to the city where my husband is, luckily our rental apartment has two bedrooms so we agreed to each take our own. He told me he doesn't think being able to move past this and is seriously considering divorce, but we also both agreed to first take care of our finances and be able to make this as amicable as possible.
> 
> What truly devastates me is knowing I brought him so much pain, during a stressful time in his life on the work front. I don't know what to do to help him. He has been avoiding me like a plague, which I understand and have been trying to give him space. He has gone through great lengths to not see me at home - he goes out to dinner until late so he makes sure I am already sleeping when he comes home, and over the weekends he just disappears for hours at the time. I am constantly worried about him and think something could happen to him and I wouldn't know it because I am trying to give him the space he needs and not ask where he is. Every day I stop myself from texting him to see how he's doing, so the last couple of days I left him two letters on his night stand to hopefully be able to open up the communication between us. I would like to at least be able to take some of that pain away from him, give him an output for his anger/rage/sadness whatever it may be. It is unfair for him to be in this situation because I put him there and I feel horrible that there is not much I can do right now to help in anyway possible.
> 
> Please, help me - I need to understand how to approach him. Though I hope that with time we may be able to push through and come out on the other side in our relationship, I respect his current course of action and my ultimate goal right now is to make this at least a bit easier on him.
> 
> What advice would you be able to provide me at this time?


I'm personally not feeling your remorse, you tell it like a novel from a book.
Being myself cheated on I tell you don't do anything he wouldn't ask. 
You lost the right to have a voice in your relationship. 
It's all up to him now. I think he's been gentle enough, considering what you did to him.
I don't know how was your relationship between the two of you before the affair that drove you to another man but in the event of him decide to fix it, don't dare to blame him for your doing. 
He's hurt, he's disgusted, shocked for sure and with a million questions about the affair(s)
Don't hold anything back and don't take it personal if he reacts in certain way.
I'll be willing to help you withmore details if you PM me. Good luck in this forum.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your input. I would like to point out that though I see how it may look like I didn't even try to fight for him and sounds like I just decided to divide assets, that is not the case. I have been trying to let him know that I want to work to regain his trust and that I would love for him to allow me the chance to recover our relationship. However, I think that the ball is in his court and he has the right to call the shots. That is why I agreed to abide by his decision to try and sort out our finances. I don't want to fight him, I want to fight FOR him, but I am unsure of how to go about doing that without invading the space he clearly so much needs right now.


Sweetheart, you are not listening. Your husband is done. That is about it. 

I would think that when the divorce is done, he will most probably not ever speak to you again.

I am sorry, just be glad you don't have kids...


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## justlost891

MyRevelation said:


> I think you're asking the wrong question. Your situation is more like my previous M ... and extended full blown A ... and I DO NOT regret ending that one and moving on. It really was the only viable option for me.
> 
> This time it was an isolated, one time drunken incident on a girls only tropical vacation, which cost my W her two longest (20+ years each) term girl friends, her ability to EVER go on another girls only trip, a diminished place in my heart after her hard crash from the pedestal I had placed her on, and apparently a permanent loss of my trust in her. However, to answer your question, I don't regret my decision to R, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't question it on occasion.
> 
> With all that said, if you truly are sorry for your actions and want to make true amends to your BH, cut him loose and let him reclaim his life.


Thank you for your answer. Since your experience seems to be very similar to mine. Besides of course letting him dictate the next few steps, is there anything that you would say I can do besides that to help him heal faster or make this somewhat more bearable?


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## hardwired

justlost891 said:


> Hello, I'm reaching out to you all as I have been reading this forum for a few days and hope you can provide some much needed advice.
> 
> Both my husband and I are in our 30s and married for almost 8 years. We have no kids together. Here's the background story:
> A couple of years ago due to his work, my husband was away for a few months, and during that time I developed a romantic relationship with a man who was up until that point a friend. During that time I was intimate with this man, and even brought him home as well.
> When my husband returned home there was an opportunity for us to relocate to another city, and at that moment though I had an option to relocate by myself to a different part of the country, I made the conscious decision to follow him and hopefully be able to put it all behind.
> A few months went by and we had a weekend trip planned to go back to the city where I had the affair. I arrived a couple of days before he did and one night out with friends, I met with the man I had an affair with, was extremely weak and was intimate with him one last time. This time, this was purely sex, and in my head, I was still only emotionally invested in my husband.
> My husband had a strong suspicion about this and confronted me with the question. At that moment, I really wanted to spare him the pain and thought it would be best to deny everything. Again, and I know what most of you are thinking, I considered this last incident as a relapse, but knew who I wanted to be with and didn't want to lose my life partner.
> At this point, I stopped all contact with the other man and blocked his number on my cellphone. However, after a few months, he reached out to me via social media (we weren't connected on social media before this point) and told me he was diagnosed with cancer and was going through a rough time. At the beginning, I ignored his messages but at one point, and I know I shouldn't have, felt terrible for his situation and started talking to him again - strictly as a friend - to try and help him through the situation.
> At present, we're looking at a timeline of almost two years since the beginning of the 4 month affair. Over a year since our last sexual encounter, and maybe six months since I learned about his illness.
> 
> A month ago, while preparing to move back to the city where it all started, my husband was already there and I was in the other city taking care of the move. One of my last days at work, my phone starting blowing up. It was my husband, who, I don't know how, had read all the Facebook messages I had received from this other man and realized about the affair (the other man mentions understanding my choice to move on with my husband despite him wanting a life together with me).
> 
> I've since moved back to the city where my husband is, luckily our rental apartment has two bedrooms so we agreed to each take our own. He told me he doesn't think being able to move past this and is seriously considering divorce, but we also both agreed to first take care of our finances and be able to make this as amicable as possible.
> 
> What truly devastates me is knowing I brought him so much pain, during a stressful time in his life on the work front. I don't know what to do to help him. He has been avoiding me like a plague, which I understand and have been trying to give him space. He has gone through great lengths to not see me at home - he goes out to dinner until late so he makes sure I am already sleeping when he comes home, and over the weekends he just disappears for hours at the time. I am constantly worried about him and think something could happen to him and I wouldn't know it because I am trying to give him the space he needs and not ask where he is. Every day I stop myself from texting him to see how he's doing, so the last couple of days I left him two letters on his night stand to hopefully be able to open up the communication between us. I would like to at least be able to take some of that pain away from him, give him an output for his anger/rage/sadness whatever it may be. It is unfair for him to be in this situation because I put him there and I feel horrible that there is not much I can do right now to help in anyway possible.
> 
> Please, help me - I need to understand how to approach him. Though I hope that with time we may be able to push through and come out on the other side in our relationship, I respect his current course of action and my ultimate goal right now is to make this at least a bit easier on him.
> 
> What advice would you be able to provide me at this time?


I would advise to tell him how deeply sorry you are, if you feel the need to do so, then let him be and do whatever you can to make the divorce as easy as possible. Take full responsibility and do not go after him for money/support etc.

As you know, what you did was unforgivable. Let him move on and heal, and you need to work on yourself.


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## Cromer

I'm a BH. The question I have if your AP is single, why not leave your H and go to him? That is the question a lot of BH would ask. My XWW will always be tainted goods and I could never trust her again. My story is a bit different from your H's but I get his actions. Despite her recent declarations to the contrary, my XWW is still having trouble moving on and I don't understand for the life of me why. She fired me as her H. I don't want to pile on either but some people just don't recover from being cheated on by someone they loved and trusted.


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## Steve1000

justlost891 said:


> What advice would you be able to provide me at this time?


Be available to discuss what happened with your husband when he feels like it. If he does ask many questions, prepare yourself that he will be trying to determine when/if you're being honest, so try to be honest and consistent as well as you can. He will have emotional outbursts and you will feel hopeless sometimes. 

Before he is ready to talk, I think that you're doing the only thing you can do, which is to be there and to keep the doorway of communication open (but respecting his need to be alone) by leaving him written notes. 

Some couples get past this and eventually rebuild their relationship, while many others are not able to.


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## hardwired

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your input. I would like to point out that though I see how it may look like I didn't even try to fight for him and sounds like I just decided to divide assets, that is not the case. I have been trying to let him know that I want to work to regain his trust and that I would love for him to allow me the chance to recover our relationship. However, I think that the ball is in his court and he has the right to call the shots. That is why I agreed to abide by his decision to try and sort out our finances. I don't want to fight him, I want to fight FOR him, but I am unsure of how to go about doing that without invading the space he clearly so much needs right now.


One thing a lot of waywards don't realize, is that IF your BS decides to try and reconcile, YOU will live the rest of your life being untrusted, watched like a hawk, never able to let your guard down, and knowing your husband is always looking at you with one foot out the door, and doing everything in his power not to let his hatred and anger rip him and you apart. I've never been unfaithful, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live like that.


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## justlost891

Pepe1970 said:


> I'm personally not feeling your remorse, you tell it like a novel from a book.
> Being myself cheated on I tell you don't do anything he wouldn't ask.
> You lost the right to have a voice in your relationship.
> It's all up to him now. I think he's been gentle enough, considering what you did to him.
> I don't know how was your relationship between the two of you before the affair that drove you to another man but in the event of him decide to fix it, don't dare to blame him for your doing.
> He's hurt, he's disgusted, shocked for sure and with a million questions about the affair(s)
> Don't hold anything back and don't take it personal if he reacts in certain way.
> I'll be willing to help you withmore details if you PM me. Good luck in this forum.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Hi Pepe, thank you for your response. I apologize that my trying to be as thorough as possible in providing a background came across as me writing a novel. I am simply trying to provide as much information up front so that people are able to see what is happening. 
I understand I lost any right to provide my opinion regarding our relationship and that only he has the keys to either resolution. I have never tried to shift the blame that is only mine and have have taken everything personally - at the end of the day, I am the one that put us here and I deserve his reactions.
My question to you knowing what you've been through is: What can I possibly do at this moment to help him cope with this situation? Is there anything you wished your WS did or didn't do during this terrible time?


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## Yeswecan

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your input. I would like to point out that though I see how it may look like I didn't even try to fight for him and sounds like I just decided to divide assets, that is not the case. I have been trying to let him know that I want to work to regain his trust and that I would love for him to allow me the chance to recover our relationship. However, I think that the ball is in his court and he has the right to call the shots. That is why I agreed to abide by his decision to try and sort out our finances. I don't want to fight him, I want to fight FOR him, but I am unsure of how to go about doing that without invading the space he clearly so much needs right now.


Your H in NC and using 180 to detach from you and this marriage. I'm sorry, I do not detect from your first post your H wants to R. I recommend you let him go.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Divorce is always easier after infidelity, especially if you don't have kids. Reconciliation is incredibly hard, especially for men. The emasculation aspect is real and he may never get over it with you in his life. Without you in the life, the source of pain is removed and he will move on with another fine lady in no time at all. 

The only way I'd ever recommend anyone going down that painful path is if you have kids. Even then, its just settling no matter how you slice it, you have took something from him that you will never be able to repair.

In your situation, I'd tell you for his sake, don't fight him or even fight for him. Go along with an uncontested divorce and let him move on with his life. That is the kind thing to do. You will just be a painful reminder all your life.


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## GusPolinski

The best way to help him is to give him an amicable, uncontested divorce.


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## Yeswecan

justlost891 said:


> however I truly believe we are better together,


No you don't. If you did then what has occurred over a 2 year period would not have happened. You thought you and OM were better together.


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## justlost891

Steve1000 said:


> Be available to discuss what happened with your husband when he feels like it. If he does ask many questions, prepare yourself that he will be trying to determine when/if you're being honest, so try to be honest and consistent as well as you can. He will have emotional outbursts and you will feel hopeless sometimes.
> 
> Before he is ready to talk, I think that you're doing the only thing you can do, which is to be there and to keep the doorway of communication open (but respecting his need to be alone) by leaving him written notes.
> 
> Some couples get past this and eventually rebuild their relationship, while many others are not able to.


Thank you, there were a couple of instances where he had questions and I answered all of them, however that has not been the case in the last week or so. I am willing to answer any questions he may have, but he's just not asking them at this time - or talking to me period - That is why I left him a couple of letters with the hopes to open the communication again.
Thank you again, I appreciate your input.


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## justlost891

Yeswecan said:


> No you don't. If you did then what has occurred over a 2 year period would not have happened. You though you and OM were better together.


Hello Yeswecan - Thank you for your response. 
I know what I did is inexcusable on any level you look at it, however I never thought the OM and I were better together.


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## hardwired

justlost891 said:


> Hello Yeswecan - Thank you for your response.
> I know what I did is inexcusable on any level you look at it, however I never thought the OM and I were better together.


Then why did you throw your marriage and your husband away for him?


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## BarbedFenceRider

"there anything that you would say I can do besides that to help him heal faster or make this somewhat more bearable?"


Nope...But if you are looking for classic indicators if he will transition faster and easier...Familial ties, close friend network, stability in work, hobbies, faith set. Those all seem to help. But, and that is a big but....Each person takes there own time. Just for FYI...I suffer from PTSD. I treated it, and recognize it...But every now and then, something happens and BOOM..I'm triggered. This has been years now. It just takes time. It does get easier but it is still there. I feel that this is similar to losing one's spouse. At least, that is how I see it.

When I went through my marriage "issue" late last year, I had the same sleepless nights, same desperation, same self loathing and doubting...It's all there. And I didn't even come close to what your husband is going through..I had caught mine before anything like this....But then again. The doubt of our relationship and feeling of the marriage on a pedestal is gone. Now it is just a "thing", kinda like signing up for an after work sports team. My wife, my kids and my marriage don't hold the same place in my life anymore. I know that I can move on and do something else...That is the killer. I lost my innocence so to speak.


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## MyRevelation

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your answer. Since your experience seems to be very similar to mine. Besides of course letting him dictate the next few steps, is there anything that you would say I can do besides that to help him heal faster or make this somewhat more bearable?


From your first post:



> I've since moved back to the city where my husband is, luckily our rental apartment has two bedrooms so we agreed to each take our own. He told me he doesn't think being able to move past this and is seriously considering divorce, but we also both agreed to first take care of our finances and be able to make this as amicable as possible.
> 
> What truly devastates me is knowing I brought him so much pain, during a stressful time in his life on the work front. I don't know what to do to help him. He has been avoiding me like a plague, which I understand and have been trying to give him space. He has gone through great lengths to not see me at home - he goes out to dinner until late so he makes sure I am already sleeping when he comes home, and over the weekends he just disappears for hours at the time.


From the above HE'S DONE, but is reluctant to take the final step. He likely doesn't want to be D, but knows there really is no option, so he's doing like a lot of guys and simply kicking the can down the road hoping you'll get frustrated and file on your own.

If I were you, I'd make a final attempt at communication, either by letter or in person, whichever you are both more comfortable with and say:

"BH, I know I have broken our M beyond repair, and I hate seeing you in pain and knowing I am the source of that pain, while watching you spending all your time just avoiding me. We don't have many assets to divide, so let's sit down civilly and make a list of assets and divide them into mine and yours categories. You can then take it to your attorney (or I'll take it to mine) and start the paper work to free you from the pain I've caused. As much as I regret my actions, I will not contest the D or make life more difficult for you than I already have. I owe you a clean, fresh start at a new life and chance for future happiness."

... and then follow through and make it happen.


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## Imajerk17

Well, OP, if I were your husband, I'd be wondering why you are sorry NOW. As in, what made you give yourself permission to cheat in the first place. And on a related note, are you sorry because you cheated or are you sorry only because you cheated AND GOT CAUGHT.

He feels emasculated. Another man now knows what you--his wife--feel like, what you taste like. By cheating on your H you chose another man over your husband.

It sounds to me that Elvis has left the building, and I can't blame him. If he wants a divorce then the best thing you can do is allow him the divorce in the most favourable terms to him possible.


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## hardwired

It's been several years for me since dday and divorcing my exww (we tried to reconcile but I couldn't do it), but another thing that comes to mind...is that his avoidance and hurt and devastation will slowly but surely turn into pure, unadulterated anger and spite. The more he is around you, the more intense that anger will become.


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## justlost891

stillfightingforus said:


> First of all, I appreciate you writing here and taking some responsibility and being mostly open and honest.
> 
> Second of all, every effort you thought you made to make the marriage work or better was followed up with something that did 5x the amount of damage to your marriage. You tried to make yourself believe it was one last time, or you did this because or that because but the bottom line is that you weren't strong enough to stay away from OM and that is where you need to get help. What are you missing in yourself that you needed this OM in your life and that it would cause you to betray your husband in the cruelest way possible.
> 
> As someone suggested, I would give him the truth on everything, tell him how you feel, don't try to justify anything, apologize, say how you understand why he is doing what is doing and if you really love him, you will let him do what he needs to do.
> 
> For the best for both of you
> - cease all contact with OM, tell him you are sorry what he's going through but you need to do what you need to do, this will be your last message to him
> - start looking into what is fair for you in the divorce, be amicable
> - setup a support system of people you know and can trust, tell them the absolute truth, the will help
> - if you try to influence your husband in any way at this point, it's only going to backfire, just let him be and be cordial and kind
> 
> I know you led yourself to believe certain things but I must get back to, even though you did things that you thought were for the marriage, the amount of love and thoughts that you had in your system were not nearly enough in favor of your husband even consider that you tried what you could to make this work. Admit that, get past that, forgive yourself but don't forget and get help on why you needed this, why you thought it was ok to betray vows and yourself, to be honest.


Thank you so much for your advice. I stopped all contact with OM the day my husband found out. I've answered all questions posed to me so far, but that has stopped the last week or so and there currently is no communication besides the two letters I left for him to hopefully read.
What I keep going back is your words regarding me not having nearly enough love for my husband to consider I tried to make this work. It is my hope he will allow me to work and fight hard to earn back his trust and love, but for the time being I am following his lead on the course of action.


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## SentHereForAReason

justlost891 said:


> Hello Yeswecan - Thank you for your response.
> I know what I did is inexcusable on any level you look at it, however I never thought the OM and I were better together.


Then why do it, honestly? That answer is not even important to us, it is to you!


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## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Hi Pepe, thank you for your response. I apologize that my trying to be as thorough as possible in providing a background came across as me writing a novel. I am simply trying to provide as much information up front so that people are able to see what is happening.
> I understand I lost any right to provide my opinion regarding our relationship and that only he has the keys to either resolution. I have never tried to shift the blame that is only mine and have have taken everything personally - at the end of the day, I am the one that put us here and I deserve his reactions.
> My question to you knowing what you've been through is: What can I possibly do at this moment to help him cope with this situation? Is there anything you wished your WS did or didn't do during this terrible time?


I've been here a few years and we have had wayward spouses come and go so I have seen how different ones act and talk. 

I don't agree with Pepe that you have "no say" or opinion on then marriage. That's not true. However, you have lost forever your BH's willingness to take very thing you say at face value. 

Well justlost you really messed things up didn't you? Tell me some specifics if you would. These may seem like simplistic questions but they do matter.


1) How old are you and your husband? How long did you date before you married? 

2) How many sexual partners did you have before you met your husband? How many did he have? 

3) Who makes the most money in then marriage, you or him? 

4) How was your sex life with your husband before you met the OM? How often were you having sex? 

5) Were you and your husband sexually compatible prior to the affair? 

6) Did you find your husband physically attractive when you married him? Was he your "type"?

7) Did you lust for him and desire sex with him on a frequent basis? What about just prior to the affair?

8) Do you find your husband physically and sexually attractive now after the affair? Did he maintain his physical health prior to the affair or did he let himself go?

9) Has your BH had sex with you since finding out about the affair? 

10) Do you find yourself mourning the loss of your OM and pining for the relationship you had with him. 

11) What the hell were you thinking bringing the OM to your house and having sex with him in your marital bed? :surprise:

Answer these questions and we can give you more specific advise.


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## justlost891

hardwired said:


> Then why did you throw your marriage and your husband away for him?


I honestly don't know. I couldn't provide an answer beyond my selfish needs. This is something that I've struggled to find an answer for. And it is devastating that I know my actions "threw my husband away" it really kills me to know I've caused him so much pain for something I don't know why I did.


----------



## justlost891

MyRevelation said:


> From your first post:
> 
> 
> 
> From the above HE'S DONE, but is reluctant to take the final step. He likely doesn't want to be D, but knows there really is no option, so he's doing like a lot of guys and simply kicking the can down the road hoping you'll get frustrated and file on your own.
> 
> If I were you, I'd make a final attempt at communication, either by letter or in person, whichever you are both more comfortable with and say:
> 
> "BH, I know I have broken our M beyond repair, and I hate seeing you in pain and knowing I am the source of that pain, while watching you spending all your time just avoiding me. We don't have many assets to divide, so let's sit down civilly and make a list of assets and divide them into mine and yours categories. You can then take it to your attorney (or I'll take it to mine) and start the paper work to free you from the pain I've caused. As much as I regret my actions, I will not contest the D or make life more difficult for you than I already have. I owe you a clean, fresh start at a new life and chance for future happiness."
> 
> ... and then follow through and make it happen.


Thank you, it really kills me but I am willing to do whatever I can to make this better on him, for a little as it may be.


----------



## MyRevelation

hardwired said:


> It's been several years for me since dday and divorcing my exww (we tried to reconcile but I couldn't do it), but another thing that comes to mind...is that his avoidance and hurt and devastation will slowly but surely turn into pure, unadulterated anger and spite. The more he is around you, the more intense that anger will become.


Justlost,

Read this and let it sink in. Right now, your BH is in a state of disbelief and shock about the current state of his life. At some point in a few months it will morph into a type of rage that you won't believe the ****storm that will rain down on you. If you want to salvage any type of good feelings your BH may have for you, you better get this over with before he hits the anger/rage phase. Trust those BH's that have been through it ... you can count on it, and if you think your BH doesn't recognize you are the woman he M ... you won't recognize him at that point as the man you M. What you have done will eventually cause the very darkest parts of your BH to bubble to the surface and you will be the target of that dark rage.


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## Yeswecan

justlost891 said:


> Hello Yeswecan - Thank you for your response.
> I know what I did is inexcusable on any level you look at it, however I never thought the OM and I were better together.


You must have thought something.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

"there anything that you would say I can do besides that to help him heal faster or make this somewhat more bearable?"

I got cheated on by my ex. And being around her was a living hell. The only thing that brought comfort was some happy pills and the moment she moved out. The first month after she left, it was like a mountain was moved off my chest. Infidelity is absolutely crushing, you are just making it worse even when you are trying to help. That is why he is avoiding you like the plague. Don't worry, he will recover and thrive, just not with you.


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## Yeswecan

justlost891 said:


> I honestly don't know. I couldn't provide an answer beyond my selfish needs. This is something that I've struggled to find an answer for. And it is devastating that I know my actions "threw my husband away" it really kills me to know I've caused him so much pain for something I don't know why I did.


Well...that's just it. Here is one who's H doing his best. In your first post there was nothing derogatory said about your H. Not attentive to your needs, etc. Nothing. Your H schleps to work. He does his best as a H can. Your H thinks all is well. Your H got this! Well, it turns out your H don't got this and he simply does not know why. You can not provide the answer why. It is very dejecting. You have caused more than pain...utter confusion and completely dejected is also a portion of your H entire life at the moment. 

I hope you can find an answer to "why" other than being selfish.


----------



## badmemory

*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.*

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernible pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counseling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## justlost891

bandit.45 said:


> I've been here a few years and we have had wayward spouses come and go so I have seen how different ones act and talk.
> 
> I don't agree with Pepe that you have "no say" or opinion on then marriage. That's not true. However, you have lost forever your BH's willingness to take very thing you say at face value.
> 
> Well justlost you really messed things up didn't you? Tell me some specifics if you would. These may seem like simplistic questions but they do matter.
> 
> 
> 1) How old are you and your husband? How long did you date before you married? in our 30s - we were together for 1 1/2 years before we go married.
> 
> 2) How many sexual partners did you have before you met your husband? How many did he have? I had 5 and he had a couple more
> 
> 3) Who makes the most money in then marriage, you or him? he does, I am however able to support myself
> 
> 4) How was your sex life with your husband before you met the OM? How often were you having sex? I have to admit - it wasn't great - perhaps every two weeks
> 
> 5) Were you and your husband sexually compatible prior to the affair? yes
> 
> 6) Did you find your husband physically attractive when you married him? Was he your "type"? yes i did. I never really had a "type" I have always been more attracted to personalities and when it comes to that, he was definitely it.
> 
> 7) Did you lust for him and desire sex with him on a frequent basis? What about just prior to the affair? like I said before, our sex life had taken a downturn, but I still found him attractive and desired sex with him
> 
> 8) Do you find your husband physically and sexually attractive now after the affair? Did he maintain his physical health prior to the affair or did he let himself go? Yes, I do. There was a time during the marriage that we were both letting ourselves go, but that wasn't the case before the affair.
> 
> 9) Has your BH had sex with you since finding out about the affair? No, I don't think either one of us is in a state of mind to have sex
> 
> 10) Do you find yourself mourning the loss of your OM and pining for the relationship you had with him. No, I decided to move to a different city and was very clear in my head who I chose to be with
> 
> 11) What the hell were you thinking bringing the OM to your house and having sex with him in your marital bed? :surprise: Honestly, I can't really tell you what I was thinking to begin the affair let alone to answer this question. It is disgusting in every sense
> 
> Answer these questions and we can give you more specific advise.


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## georgieporgie

I once heard someone say, if a man hits his wife, if he wants a chance of forgiveness he should go and buy her a diamond ring.

The point is to make such a massive gesture that it gets the other persons attention and they can see your remorse.

But first you have to be honestly remorseful. And for that I suggest you say to your husband, but only if its 100% true, that even if he doesn't want you back you still won't go to the other man, you regret so much what you did to him.

If you can do this then I reckon you're in with a chance. Just don't be dishonest with yourself or with him


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## bandit.45

Deleted


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## justlost891

Yeswecan said:


> Well...that's just it. Here is one who's H doing his best. In your first post there was nothing derogatory said about your H. Not attentive to your needs, etc. Nothing. Your H schleps to work. He does his best as a H can. Your H thinks all is well. Your H got this! Well, it turns out your H don't got this and he simply does not know why. You can not provide the answer why. It is very dejecting. You have caused more than pain...utter confusion and completely dejected is also a portion of your H entire life at the moment.
> 
> I hope you can find an answer to "why" other than being selfish.


Allow me to clarify. My original post doesn't contain any details regarding my husband or marriage because I don't believe they would remove any gravity from my actions. I learned in this forum that the affair is 100% on the cheater.
Having said that, I will admit that our marriage was not in a good place.


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## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. I understand the divorce is the easiest route, however I truly believe we are better together, and understanding this is all my fault, I would love the opportunity to at least try and regain his trust. Like I said, I have let him decide what he wants to do and will not fight him on it.
> May I ask, are you regretting trying to recover your relationship?


For you it could be better? Do you believe for him it will be? Please don't start with this, don't even say this to him. Imagine it's anything else. Say you are building a car with someone, it's a few year project and that person comes in one day and takes a sledgehammer to the car and destroys all that hard work. What would your reaction be if afterwords they said, I truly believe we can build a better car. How would that go over? Why would you even want to start a new project with this person. 

You have to understand, you are no longer a catch for him. For a long time, you are going to be a source of pain. He deserves better. The best you can be is sorry. If he decides to stay with you it's purely a gift.


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## justlost891

georgieporgie said:


> I once heard someone say, if a man hits his wife, if he wants a chance of forgiveness he should go and buy her a diamond ring.
> 
> The point is to make such a massive gesture that it gets the other persons attention and they can see your remorse.
> 
> But first you have to be honestly remorseful. And for that I suggest you say to your husband, but only if its 100% true, that even if he doesn't want you back you still won't go to the other man, you regret so much what you did to him.
> 
> If you can do this then I reckon you're in with a chance. Just don't be dishonest with yourself or with him


I wouldn't go back, regardless.
Thank you for your input.


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## Yeswecan

justlost891 said:


> Allow me to clarify. My original post doesn't contain any details regarding my husband or marriage because I don't believe they would remove any gravity from my actions. I learned in this forum that the affair is 100% on the cheater.
> Having said that, I will admit that our marriage was not in a good place.


Got it! Sometimes when I read a marriage is not in a good place I often wonder is it a result of one of the spouses conducting an affair. I suspect it is in many cases. Others not. 

It will be hard in your situation to work on this marriage as your H is in NC and 180. He is detaching. Your H just might need this space to get his head together. 

I hope you can work it out. This will be an uphill battle for sure.


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## TAMAT

offer to take a polygraph.

offer to give him a post-nuptual agreement.

As far as why you had the affair the truth, I believe, is that it felt so good that it was better than any drug, and the sex was so much better than with your H. You felt alive, appreciated and unconditionally loved. 

You may have felt the same intensity for your H but it only lasted for a short while, affairs allow that feeling to last for years which explains some of their addictive power.

Did your H confront or expose the OM was there a downside for him?

Tamat


----------



## justlost891

Yeswecan said:


> Got it! Sometimes when I read a marriage is not in a good place I often wonder is it a result of one of the spouses conducting an affair. I suspect it is in many cases. Others not.
> 
> It will be hard in your situation to work on this marriage as your H is in NC and 180. He is detaching. Your H just might need this space to get his head together.
> 
> I hope you can work it out. This will be an uphill battle for sure.


Thank you for your advice. May I ask what NC and 180 mean? I see those terms mentioned but am unsure of what they stand for, or what they really mean as far as the situation goes.
I know it will be an uphill battle, but I am willing to hike and fight.


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## VladDracul

BarbedFenceRider said:


> "there anything that you would say I can do besides that to help him heal faster or make this somewhat more bearable?"


Just to add, one thing you can do to achieve your goal is to get out of his life and allow him to find a woman that puts him above all others. You and I know you didn't bang the guy the first time while thinking your old man was the one tickled your fancy. By your own admission, on your trip back home after your first rodeo with this cat, you were riding the guy like a mechanical bull within hours after you arrived. Your pants were wet thinking about it when you pulled into town. You were doing the guy because your marriage didn't hold your interest.
Your old man knows the score. Do yourself a favor and quit lying to yourself. He ain't exactly buying it.


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## hardwired

bandit.45 said:


> Guys this circular questioning isn't getting her or us anywhere. It's just going to piss her off and make her leave...and that will be another notch on the TAM gunstock to show another wayward we've driven off.
> 
> She needs to answer the itemized questions I gave her about her marriage, so as to provide us with clues as to her motivations. She's clueless right now.


Ummm, no. This is a crucial question she needs to think real, real hard on and figure out. But thanks for the recommendation.


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## Yeswecan

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your advice. May I ask what NC and 180 mean? I see those terms mentioned but am unsure of what they stand for, or what they really mean as far as the situation goes.
> I know it will be an uphill battle, but I am willing to hike and fight.


NC is no contact...helps detaching

180
https://affaircare.com/the-180/


----------



## hardwired

TAMAT said:


> offer to take a polygraph.
> 
> offer to give him a post-nuptual agreement.
> 
> As far as why you had the affair the truth, I believe, is that it felt so good that it was better than any drug, and the sex was so much better than with your H. You felt alive, appreciated and unconditionally loved.
> 
> You may have felt the same intensity for your H but it only lasted for a short while, affairs allow that feeling to last for years which explains some of their addictive power.
> 
> Did your H confront or expose the OM was there a downside for him?
> 
> Tamat


A polygraph for what?


----------



## justlost891

VladDracul said:


> Just to add, one thing you can do to achieve your goal is to get out of his life and allow him to find a woman that puts him above all others. You and I know you didn't bang the guy the first time while thinking your old man was the one tickled your fancy. By your own admission, on your trip back home after your first rodeo with this cat, you were riding the guy like a mechanical bull within hours after you arrived. Your pants were wet thinking about it when you pulled into town. You were doing the guy because your marriage didn't hold your interest.
> Your old man knows the score. Do yourself a favor and quit lying to yourself. He ain't exactly buying it.


Thank you for the rather graphic account of my events.
If you don't mind I would rather continue speaking with people that offer a more civilized approach to their advice.


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## SentHereForAReason

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your advice. May I ask what NC and 180 mean? I see those terms mentioned but am unsure of what they stand for, or what they really mean as far as the situation goes.
> I know it will be an uphill battle, but I am willing to hike and fight.


180 - https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/

NC - No Contact, which goes with above

In a way, I'm jealous of this thread because these are things my wife didn't spend more than one week doing to win me over. Just goes to show the different types of affairs, people, situations, etc but they all seem to have the same buildup and consequences.


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## bandit.45

Thanks for answering my questions. They were a big help. 


Let me ask a couple more: 

1) What was it specifically about the OM that attracted you to him? 

2) Did the OM possess physical or appearance traits that you found more appealing than your husbands? 

3) Did the OM pursue you or did you pursue him? 

4) Did the OM satisfy some emotional/physical needs you had, while your husband satisfied others? 

5) How was your communication with your husband before the affair? 

6) Were the two of you getting along prior to your affair? 

7) Were you meeting each other's needs physically and emotionally? 

8) Are you and your husband now living in a different city and house than the one you had the affair in? 

9) Did the OM offer you compliments, affection, validation that your husband was not? 

10) Prior to the affair, had you sat down with your BH and laid out your complaints about the marriage? was he receptive?


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## justlost891

Yeswecan said:


> NC is no contact...helps detaching
> 
> 180
> https://affaircare.com/the-180/


Thank you, I'll give it a read.


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## Yeswecan

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for the rather graphic account of my events.
> If you don't mind I would rather continue speaking with people that offer a more civilized approach to their advice.


You will get a little beat up here. Stay the coarse. You have a lot to do.


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## Nrecnocymton

It seems you’re willing to give an uncontested divorce if that’s what he wants. That’s good. Some posters have suggested your husband is currently detaching from you. From what you’ve said that seems accurate too. No magic elixir will suddenly change the path he’s on. Certainly not things you _say_. I’d be focusing on what I could _do_ to improve myself, so I could learn from it. Have you been in any therapy (IC) to get to your whys? Have you read any books to help you get a better understanding of both what you’re going through and what he’s going through? Coming to this website is a good choice (if your skin is thick enough). If you were in his shoes what would it take your spouse to do to remotely have a chance? Let your actions be motivated to heal him, not to ease your pain, suffering and consequences. Let go of the outcome and deal with what happens. I know you have a hard time seeing it, but eventually you’ll be fine.


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## sokillme

I have to be honest I see a lot of WS do this. They say how can I fix him. Why do you think YOU are the one to fix him. You broke him. That may have been your role before but you abandoned that role and now probably hurt him more then anyone else in his life. The last person who should be trying to fix that is the person who abused him. That is just not your place anymore. He has to fix himself. 

Again you need to understand you are the source of his pain at least for the foreseeable future, if he needs time away from you give it to him. If that causes you stress so be it. That is the consequence of your actions. Fix yourself, if you are to have a chance you need to figure out why you felt it was OK to do something so awful like this to anyone. If he does decide to give you a chance you need to make sure their is a reason to believe this won't happen again.


----------



## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for the rather graphic account of my events.
> If you don't mind I would rather continue speaking with people that offer a more civilized approach to their advice.


JustLost some of us are going to be tougher on you than others. You need to have develop a thick skin, because everything being thrown at you here is exactly the questions your BH will throw at you. Look or the question beyond the rough wording. VladDracul actually brought up a very good point you will have to consider, albeit in his own colorful way.


----------



## Pepe1970

justlost891 said:


> Hi Pepe, thank you for your response. I apologize that my trying to be as thorough as possible in providing a background came across as me writing a novel. I am simply trying to provide as much information up front so that people are able to see what is happening.
> I understand I lost any right to provide my opinion regarding our relationship and that only he has the keys to either resolution. I have never tried to shift the blame that is only mine and have have taken everything personally - at the end of the day, I am the one that put us here and I deserve his reactions.
> My question to you knowing what you've been through is: What can I possibly do at this moment to help him cope with this situation? Is there anything you wished your WS did or didn't do during this terrible time?


Very well dear.
Again, assuming he wants R, you need to be wise (not smart, that's different) that's something rare in women nowadays.
Give him all the room he needs, let him be the one initiating convertations or talking about the issue. Once he brings it up just don't tell him how sorry you are. Show, demonstrate him your remorse. Your behavior is an important key to make him feel how sorry you are.
After all it's not that you came clean to him being honest. You've been busted. This is the time he needs you more than ever to rebuild your marriage from ruins, but he doesn't know how to express it for sure.
Guarantee him you're willing to help fixing it. Always let him know you have failed.
That's a start.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Yeswecan said:


> You will get a little beat up here. Stay the coarse. You have a lot to do.


He's right...stay the course and get yourself better! Your still a person, but you can be a better person in the end.


----------



## justlost891

bandit.45 said:


> Thanks for answering my questions. They were a big help.
> 
> 
> Let me ask a couple more:
> 
> 1) What was it specifically about the OM that attracted you to him? I want to say it was his easy going personality - a change from my husband's more serious approach to things
> 
> 2) Did the OM possess physical or appearance traits that you found more appealing than your husbands? I wouldn't say more appealing, just different - like I mentioned before, I do find my husband really attractive
> 
> 3) Did the OM pursue you or did you pursue him? it developed from a friendship, I think we both started to feel attracted to each other, I would be lying if I gave you one or the other as the answer
> 
> 4) Did the OM satisfy some emotional/physical needs you had, while your husband satisfied others? They both had different personalities and provided different interactions. My husband constantly challenges me to be better, the OM offered a more relaxed environment. I guess the change of air was refreshing at first. After a little it got boring though and that's why I say I never really considered leaving my husband and ended my affair.
> 
> 5) How was your communication with your husband before the affair? It was good, I'm not going to say it was terrific, but we were always a good team
> 
> 6) Were the two of you getting along prior to your affair? we were having a bit of a rough patch to be honest
> 
> 7) Were you meeting each other's needs physically and emotionally? like I said, we were not in a great moment of our relationship so I think we were lacking on both areas
> 
> 8) Are you and your husband now living in a different city and house than the one you had the affair in? same city, different apartment.
> 
> 9) Did the OM offer you compliments, affection, validation that your husband was not? yes, but I always saw it as a natural thing, as this was a new thing, and I had been with my husband for many years and regrettably we both were not as enthusiastic in the compliments department
> 
> 10) Prior to the affair, had you sat down with your BH and laid out your complaints about the marriage? was he receptive? we had both expressed our grievances to each other and the few months leading up to the affair were an up and down to be honest. We had weeks when we were back on track and some other weeks we would lose our focus


----------



## justlost891

BarbedFenceRider said:


> He's right...stay the course and get yourself better! Your still a person, but you can be a better person in the end.


Thank you all, I appreciate your advice on this matter. I am sorry I reacted the way I did, but I truly want to learn from this forum and make this a productive discussion.


----------



## justlost891

sokillme said:


> I have to be honest I see a lot of WS do this. They say how can I fix him. Why do you think YOU are the one to fix him. You broke him. That may have been your role before but you abandoned that role and now probably hurt him more then anyone else in his life. The last person who should be trying to fix that is the person who abused him. That is just not your place anymore. He has to fix himself.
> 
> Again you need to understand you are the source of his pain at least for the foreseeable future, if he needs time away from you give it to him. If that causes you stress so be it. That is the consequence of your actions. Fix yourself, if you are to have a chance you need to figure out why you felt it was OK to do something so awful like this to anyone. If he does decide to give you a chance you need to make sure their is a reason to believe this won't happen again.


Thank you for your advice. I understand it is not my place to "fix" him. I merely want to know if there is anything I can do to make this a bit easier on him and you've provided me with the answer: to give him the space he needs.
It is indeed terribly stressful as I worry something may happen to him while he's away for hours on end and I wouldn't know about it.


----------



## BluesPower

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for the rather graphic account of my events.
> If you don't mind I would rather continue speaking with people that offer a more civilized approach to their advice.


Yes, there is one problem. You see, you want people, especially hubby, to be civilized. 

You know what Your Husband is thinking just like that poster wrote. Only No one could actually write what your husband it thinking. 

You think he is such a great guy, he would never think this way, wow you really have a lot to learn. 

If your husband actually told you what he thinks about, and how he feels, it would actually curl your toe nails. 

Does that make sense?


----------



## ButtPunch

I would see a counselor to understand what caused you to cheat.

I would give your husband the space he wants and comply with anything he wants on the 
divorce front. I would communicate to him that you do not want a divorce and are in therapy
to understand what went wrong. 

I would be truthful if he asks you anything. Do not trickle truth him.

There isn't much else you can do.


----------



## MattMatt

@justlost891 I would suggest individual counselling for the both of you and relationship counselling, too. 

Relationship counselling is not always about "saving" a marriage. Sometimes it's about helping a couple see how they can go their own ways with as little animosity and pain as possible for both parties.


----------



## sokillme

I know we are being harsh but you need to really start thinking about who you are and what your actions say about you at this point in your life. You repeatedly say you loved him. Can I ask what that means from your point of view? I mean your actions don't really show love, would you believe a person who did this to you LOVED you? Now you say you want to show him you love him again, but you said you loved him before and this happened. You are going to have to do better this time, if there is a second chance but you need to understand that your thinking is not right. That is where you can start. As it stands now your love doesn't have a loyalty component to it. This makes you a risk to anyone. I believe this is because you first need to understand what love is before you can give it to someone else. 

Love IS NOT, a desperate feeling to be with someone, whether it's your affair partner then, or your husband now, that is desire or desperation. Those feelings come and go, they are very intense but that don't make for a good reason to have a relationship, at least a long term one. Love involves loyalty and honor. It's about giving not wanting. I seems like people in your situation always mistake desperately wanting someone with love. It's not. If you take anything from this thread get this. You need to really think if you even know what love is. Start there. 

What you are feeling now is a desperate need to fix a terrible wrong you have committed. That is not wrong by the way but it's not a reason to ask your husband to commit to you again. You can't fix this, he has to learn to live with it. It will be with him forever. It will also be with you forever. It's like a death of a loved one or a car accident where you loose a limb. Some things you don't get over you just learn to live with it. He is learning and you must learn your marriage is dead. You killed it. The women he thought he knew is dead. 

What you can be is a better women, this is what you need to be, whether it is with him or someone else. That will take a lifetime of work, but if you want the potential for a successful marriage in the future you must do this. There is a reason why you were able to lie and live a double life with the person you swore fidelity to, who was the primary relationship in your life. You need to fix this as the healthy way to treat this person is to cherish them and protect them. For whatever reason you didn't have that instinct. Why? You need to dig down deep and see why your thinking was so wrong here.


----------



## justlost891

Pepe1970 said:


> Very well dear.
> Again, assuming he wants R, you need to be wise (not smart, that's different) that's something rare in women nowadays.
> Give him all the room he needs, let him be the one initiating convertations or talking about the issue. Once he brings it up just don't tell him how sorry you are. Show, demonstrate him your remorse. Your behavior is an important key to make him feel how sorry you are.
> After all it's not that you came clean to him being honest. You've been busted. This is the time he needs you more than ever to rebuild your marriage from ruins, but he doesn't know how to express it for sure.
> Guarantee him you're willing to help fixing it. Always let him know you have failed.
> That's a start.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


Thank you Pepe. I'm not sure how else to demonstrate my remorse. What would you say are actions that would be able to communicate this to a BS? For the time being I am trying to give him the space he needs and let him initiate the conversation when he is ready.


----------



## Vinnydee

I read a very interesting article that stated affair partners can become addicted to each other and the only way to end the affair is to move far away. You have gone into addiction zone. No matter what you do you will crave the other guy for the rest of your life. 

For some reason you seem to always find a reason to put yourself in a position to cheat again. I do not think this will change so my advice is to divorce and go and live with the guy you have repeatedly chosen over your husband. Seems that your lover also knows how to get you under him by playing on emotions and his illness. Your wanting to spare your husband pain has not only made the pain worse, but I suspect the real motive was to keep your options open as by doing so you keep the door open for your lover. 

Sometimes divorce is best. That is my advice.


----------



## oldtruck

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your input. I would like to point out that though I see how it may look like I didn't even try to fight for him and sounds like I just decided to divide assets, that is not the case. I have been trying to let him know that I want to work to regain his trust and that I would love for him to allow me the chance to recover our relationship. However, I think that the ball is in his court and he has the right to call the shots. That is why I agreed to abide by his decision to try and sort out our finances. I don't want to fight him, I want to fight FOR him, but I am unsure of how to go about doing that without invading the space he clearly so much needs right now.


A WW's level of remorse and commitment to be the best wife ever
from this time out after her affair has no value when the BH can not
get past her affair and he wants a divorce.

Giving him space is not going to fix anything. So if you want this then
you will have to find a way to fight for this. Remember not all fights are
won.


----------



## justlost891

sokillme said:


> I know we are being harsh but you need to really start thinking about who you are and what your actions say about you at this point in your life. You repeatedly say you loved him. Can I ask what that means from your point of view? I mean your actions don't really show love, would you believe a person who did this to you LOVED you? Now you say you want to show him you love him again, but you said you loved him before and this happened. You are going to have to do better this time, if there is a second chance but you need to understand that your thinking is not right. That is where you can start. As it stands now your love doesn't have a loyalty component to it. This makes you a risk to anyone. I believe this is because you first need to understand what love is before you can give it to someone else.
> 
> Love IS NOT, a desperate feeling to be with someone, whether it's your affair partner then, or your husband now, that is desire or desperation. Those feelings come and go, that are very intense but that don't make for a good reason to have a relationship, at least a long term one. Love involves loyalty and honor. It's about giving not wanting. I seems like people in your situation always mistake desperately wanting someone with love. It's not. If you take anything from this tread get this. You need to really think if you even know what love is. Start there.
> 
> What you are feeling now is a desperate need to fix a terrible wrong you have committed. That is not wrong by the way but it's not a reason to ask your husband to commit to you again. You can't fix this, he has to learn to live with it. It will be with him forever. It will also be with you forever. It's like a death of a loved one or a car accident where you loose a limb. Some things you don't get over you just learn to live with it. He is learning and you must learn your marriage is dead. You killed it. The women he thought he knew is dead.
> 
> What you can be is a better women, this is what you need to be, whether it is with him or someone else. That will take a lifetime of work, but if you want the potential for a successful marriage in the future you must do this. There is a reason why you were able to lie and live a double life with the person you swore fidelity to, who was the primary relationship in your life. You need to fix this as the healthy way to treat this person is to cherish them and protect them. For whatever reason you didn't have that instinct. Why? You need to dig down deep and see why your thinking was so wrong here.


Thank you, you've given me a lot to think about.


----------



## ABHale

justlost891 said:


> Hello, I'm reaching out to you all as I have been reading this forum for a few days and hope you can provide some much needed advice.
> 
> Both my husband and I are in our 30s and married for almost 8 years. We have no kids together. Here's the background story:
> A couple of years ago due to his work, my husband was away for a few months, and during that time I developed a romantic relationship with a man who was up until that point a friend. During that time I was intimate with this man, and even brought him home as well.
> When my husband returned home there was an opportunity for us to relocate to another city, and at that moment though I had an option to relocate by myself to a different part of the country, I made the conscious decision to follow him and hopefully be able to put it all behind.
> A few months went by and we had a weekend trip planned to go back to the city where I had the affair. I arrived a couple of days before he did and one night out with friends, I met with the man I had an affair with, was extremely weak and was intimate with him one last time. This time, this was purely sex, and in my head, I was still only emotionally invested in my husband.
> My husband had a strong suspicion about this and confronted me with the question. At that moment, I really wanted to spare him the pain and thought it would be best to deny everything. Again, and I know what most of you are thinking, I considered this last incident as a relapse, but knew who I wanted to be with and didn't want to lose my life partner.
> At this point, I stopped all contact with the other man and blocked his number on my cellphone. However, after a few months, he reached out to me via social media (we weren't connected on social media before this point) and told me he was diagnosed with cancer and was going through a rough time. At the beginning, I ignored his messages but at one point, and I know I shouldn't have, felt terrible for his situation and started talking to him again - strictly as a friend - to try and help him through the situation.
> At present, we're looking at a timeline of almost two years since the beginning of the 4 month affair. Over a year since our last sexual encounter, and maybe six months since I learned about his illness.
> 
> A month ago, while preparing to move back to the city where it all started, my husband was already there and I was in the other city taking care of the move. One of my last days at work, my phone starting blowing up. It was my husband, who, I don't know how, had read all the Facebook messages I had received from this other man and realized about the affair (the other man mentions understanding my choice to move on with my husband despite him wanting a life together with me).
> 
> I've since moved back to the city where my husband is, luckily our rental apartment has two bedrooms so we agreed to each take our own. He told me he doesn't think being able to move past this and is seriously considering divorce, but we also both agreed to first take care of our finances and be able to make this as amicable as possible.
> 
> What truly devastates me is knowing I brought him so much pain, during a stressful time in his life on the work front. I don't know what to do to help him. He has been avoiding me like a plague, which I understand and have been trying to give him space. He has gone through great lengths to not see me at home - he goes out to dinner until late so he makes sure I am already sleeping when he comes home, and over the weekends he just disappears for hours at the time. I am constantly worried about him and think something could happen to him and I wouldn't know it because I am trying to give him the space he needs and not ask where he is. Every day I stop myself from texting him to see how he's doing, so the last couple of days I left him two letters on his night stand to hopefully be able to open up the communication between us. I would like to at least be able to take some of that pain away from him, give him an output for his anger/rage/sadness whatever it may be. It is unfair for him to be in this situation because I put him there and I feel horrible that there is not much I can do right now to help in anyway possible.
> 
> Please, help me - I need to understand how to approach him. Though I hope that with time we may be able to push through and come out on the other side in our relationship, I respect his current course of action and my ultimate goal right now is to make this at least a bit easier on him.
> 
> What advice would you be able to provide me at this time?


Just be fair in the divorce with him. 

Other then that he has to work this out. It might have been just sex or loneliness on your part but speaking as a guy you gave away to another man the one special thing in a marriage, yourself. 

There is nothing you can do if you husband won’t let you. 

There is somethings you can read on the net on how to help your husband heal after an affair.

I will let you know this. If you want to have a relationship in the future with you husband your actions now and after the divorce will decide it. Don’t give away but also be fair with why the two of you might do so. 

I have read two post of couples getting back together after a divorce. You actions a key in that happening if that is what you want.


----------



## justlost891

BluesPower said:


> Yes, there is one problem. You see, you want people, especially hubby, to be civilized.
> 
> You know what Your Husband is thinking just like that poster wrote. Only No one could actually write what your husband it thinking.
> 
> You think he is such a great guy, he would never thing this way, wow you really have a lot to learn.
> 
> If your husband actually told you what he thinks about, and how he feels, it would actually curl your toe nails.
> 
> Does that make sense?


Of course it makes sense, it makes total sense; however, the poster is not my husband. I have had conversations with my husband where he gets graphic and I accept that from him, at the end of the day I deserve he speaks to me that way.
A complete stranger? No.
I came here for advice and I will accept criticism, that is the reason why I'm here. But I will not engage with a stranger feeling they have the right to speak to me in that fashion when I have come here to make myself vulnerable to grow and learn from other people's perspectives.


----------



## TDSC60

Your decision to deny the affair when your husband first asked about it was one of the worst things you could have done for a relationship. One more decision that YOU made alone that affected your husband.

Some betrayed spouses say that the lies and deception about the affair killed their feelings for a spouse even more that the physical aspects.

Your husband now has proof that you have such disrespect for him that you will lie to his face. Now he is thinking that everything you say is a partial truth, intended to protect yourself and the OM.

I don't know what to tell you except, if he asks any question about any aspect of your affair answer him truthfully. Don't rationalize lying by saying "I don't want him to be hurt". Much too late for that nonsense.

One of the common factors of those couples who have been able to R is total honesty. The other is complete remorse.


----------



## ButtPunch

sokillme said:


> I know we are being harsh but you need to really start thinking about who you are and what your actions say about you at this point in your life. You repeatedly say you loved him. Can I ask what that means from your point of view? I mean your actions don't really show love, would you believe a person who did this to you LOVED you? Now you say you want to show him you love him again, but you said you loved him before and this happened. You are going to have to do better this time, if there is a second chance but you need to understand that your thinking is not right. That is where you can start. As it stands now your love doesn't have a loyalty component to it. This makes you a risk to anyone. I believe this is because you first need to understand what love is before you can give it to someone else.
> 
> Love IS NOT, a desperate feeling to be with someone, whether it's your affair partner then, or your husband now, that is desire or desperation. Those feelings come and go, they are very intense but that don't make for a good reason to have a relationship, at least a long term one. Love involves loyalty and honor. It's about giving not wanting. I seems like people in your situation always mistake desperately wanting someone with love. It's not. If you take anything from this thread get this. You need to really think if you even know what love is. Start there.
> 
> What you are feeling now is a desperate need to fix a terrible wrong you have committed. That is not wrong by the way but it's not a reason to ask your husband to commit to you again. You can't fix this, he has to learn to live with it. It will be with him forever. It will also be with you forever. It's like a death of a loved one or a car accident where you loose a limb. Some things you don't get over you just learn to live with it. He is learning and you must learn your marriage is dead. You killed it. The women he thought he knew is dead.
> 
> What you can be is a better women, this is what you need to be, whether it is with him or someone else. That will take a lifetime of work, but if you want the potential for a successful marriage in the future you must do this. There is a reason why you were able to lie and live a double life with the person you swore fidelity to, who was the primary relationship in your life. You need to fix this as the healthy way to treat this person is to cherish them and protect them. For whatever reason you didn't have that instinct. Why? You need to dig down deep and see why your thinking was so wrong here.


Beautifully written


----------



## justlost891

MattMatt said:


> @justlost891 I would suggest individual counselling for the both of you and relationship counselling, too.
> 
> Relationship counselling is not always about "saving" a marriage. Sometimes it's about helping a couple see how they can go their own ways with as little animosity and pain as possible for both parties.


Thank you. I have been thinking about individual counselling for quite some time. I didn't want to take the step of mentioning the IC for him or relationship counselling to my husband as perhaps he would read that as me hinting that some of this is his fault.


----------



## justlost891

TDSC60 said:


> Your decision to deny the affair when your husband first asked about it was one of the worst things you could have done for a relationship. One more decision that YOU made alone that affected your husband.
> 
> Some betrayed spouses say that the lies and deception about the affair killed their feelings for a spouse even more that the physical aspects.
> 
> Your husband now has proof that you have such disrespect for him that you will lie to his face. Now he is thinking that everything you say is a partial truth, intended to protect yourself and the OM.
> 
> I don't know what to tell you except, if he asks any question about any aspect of your affair answer him truthfully. Don't rationalize lying by saying "I don't want him to be hurt". Much too late for that nonsense.


Thank you. I see now that my denying it only aggravated things and had the opposite effect than the one intended.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
I have been honest with him since he found out and I can only hope for the best and work hard to regain his trust.


----------



## Pepe1970

justlost891 said:


> Thank you Pepe. I'm not sure how else to demonstrate my remorse. What would you say are actions that would be able to communicate this to a BS? For the time being I am trying to give him the space he needs and let him initiate the conversation when he is ready.


Then you're doing good so far.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

Thank you for your answers. Now lets break these up and discuss them further. 





> 1) What was it specifically about the OM that attracted you to him? I want to say it was his easy going personality - a change from my husband's more serious approach to things


Okay, why was your husband serious? Was he always serious or did he become that way through the daily trials and tribulations of work, marriage and family issues? Marriage is hard, and some peoples' personalities change in the face of these struggles. As a spouse, you cannot expect your partner to be that same fresh, funny, exciting person that swept you off your feet all those years ago. 



> 2) Did the OM possess physical or appearance traits that you found more appealing than your husbands? I wouldn't say more appealing, just different - like I mentioned before, I do find my husband really attractive


Okay...so it was the newness of the OM that you found intriguing? Anything else? 




> 3) Did the OM pursue you or did you pursue him? it developed from a friendship, I think we both started to feel attracted to each other, I would be lying if I gave you one or the other as the answer


Okay so stop here. Now, ask yourself why you allowed the "friendship" to continue once you felt this attraction growing? What personal boundaries did you already have in place to protect yourself from the incursion of these feelings? Did you have any? Ask yourself if you saw the danger, why did you proceed forwards? At any time was your inner voice telling you not to let this friendship go on? At what point did you stop listening to your voice and decide to allow this relationship to go deeper....or was there any voice there at all? 

Why did you become friends with this man in the first place? What brought you two together?




> 4) Did the OM satisfy some emotional/physical needs you had, while your husband satisfied others? They both had different personalities and provided different interactions. My husband constantly challenges me to be better, the OM offered a more relaxed environment. I guess the change of air was refreshing at first. After a little it got boring though and that's why I say I never really considered leaving my husband and ended my affair.


What do you mean when you say your husband "challenges" you? Do you mean nag? Berates you? Complains about what you do? Constantly corrects you? I'm not trying to throw blame on your husband here, only trying to get a picture of your interactions with him when it comes to daily things. Were you resenting him for this, or did you welcome his challenges?

So once the shine of the newness of this relationship with the OM started to wear off, is that when you started feeling guilt for the affair? Do you think your OM "played" you? Did he shower you with compliments to bring your boundaries down? 



> 5) How was your communication with your husband before the affair? It was good, I'm not going to say it was terrific, but we were always a good team


Did the two of you talk only about practical every day things? How about feelings, fears and resentments? 




> 6) Were the two of you getting along prior to your affair? we were having a bit of a rough patch to be honest


Please explain. What had happened in your marriage or personal lives to cause the disruption? 




> 7) Were you meeting each other's needs physically and emotionally? like I said, we were not in a great moment of our relationship so I think we were lacking on both areas


Okay so to some extent you two had shut each other out. Did you or him ever talk about going to marriage counseling? Did it occur to either of you to get help? 




> 8) Are you and your husband now living in a different city and house than the one you had the affair in? same city, different apartment.


OK. How far away is the OM from you now? 



> 9) Did the OM offer you compliments, affection, validation that your husband was not? yes, but I always saw it as a natural thing, as this was a new thing, and I had been with my husband for many years and regrettably we both were not as enthusiastic in the compliments department


Are you a compliment driven woman? Do you desire lots of validation from your husband? Was your BH telling you how pretty you were and that he found you attractive? If not, were you building up resentment for that? 



> 10) Prior to the affair, had you sat down with your BH and laid out your complaints about the marriage? was he receptive? we had both expressed our grievances to each other and the few months leading up to the affair were an up and down to be honest. We had weeks when we were back on track and some other weeks we would lose our focus


But did you guys ever get help? Counseling? Did you try to come up with a specific gameplan to figure out how to meet each others' needs?


----------



## TBT

justlost891 said:


> I've since moved back to the city where my husband is, luckily our rental apartment has two bedrooms so we agreed to each take our own. He told me he doesn't think being able to move past this and is seriously considering divorce, but we also both agreed to first take care of our finances and be able to make this as amicable as possible.


This is a fairly recent DDay for your husband. His thoughts must be all over the place and rightly so. He needs time to make a decision on whether or not he he can find it within himself to attempt a reconciliation. Some just can't. However,if what you say here is true,then it's not 100% that your husband will choose to divorce. So,be available for whatever he needs and above all be completely honest going forward.

In the meantime,like others have said,seek out a good IC and try to really understand yourself and your whys. Why was there no reflection and real change between the end of the initial 4 month affair and your subsequent renewal of it? You need to find out some things about yourself.


----------



## Pepe1970

justlost891 said:


> Of course it makes sense, it makes total sense; however, the poster is not my husband. I have had conversations with my husband where he gets graphic and I accept that from him, at the end of the day I deserve he speaks to me that way.
> A complete stranger? No.
> I came here for advice and I will accept criticism, that is the reason why I'm here. But I will not engage with a stranger feeling they have the right to speak to me in that fashion when I have come here to make myself vulnerable to grow and learn from other people's perspectives.


I admit, I admire you at some level.
Just be awared, in this forum they all will get a chunk of you.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## hardwired

justlost891 said:


> I honestly don't know. I couldn't provide an answer beyond my selfish needs. This is something that I've struggled to find an answer for. And it is devastating that I know my actions "threw my husband away" it really kills me to know I've caused him so much pain for something I don't know why I did.


That's what he feels like ("thrown away"), along with many, many other things.

When you were having sex with the other man, or before/after that, what were your thoughts about what you were doing? Did you think, I'm going to do this because I really want it, and I'll probably not get caught, so what the hell? Did you realize that if you got caught, that would most likely be the end of your marriage? But that the thrill was worth that risk? Did you think, this is going to absolutely destroy my husband...if he finds out, it will kill him? Did you think, if I don't get caught, it's like it didn't happen? Or did you think, even if I don't get caught, I will have to live with myself, knowing I have done, several times over, something truly, truly awful and cruel? What went through your mind? How did you justify it? How did you live a double life? Did you have constant anxiety and guilt over it, or just sweep it under the rug?

I'm not attacking you at all - I'm genuinely curious as to how someone who cheats thinks, and I also think it would be valuable for you to ask yourself these questions and understand yourself...for your own sake, and for the sake of any future relationship you may have.


----------



## TAMAT

JL,

You wrote, *If you don't mind I would rather continue speaking with people that offer a more civilized approach to their advice. *

Please take the more crude postings seriously, as what they are saying may accurately reflect how your H is feeling, and your H may even be too polite to tell you hence the reason he does not want to talk anymore. 

You might not be able to help your H unless you understand your how your H feels, and it's hard for your H to tell you that he feels emasculated, unattractive, inferior to OM etc. You might not believe your H is any of those things but he doesn't tell you because he believes you are lying. 

It's easier for men on an anonymous website to tell you how they felt about their wives affairs, then for your H to tell you.

Tamat


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> Thank you, you've given me a lot to think about.


Don't give up, and even though we are harsh don't leave. 

The advice that is always given is the book -

Not just friends, and How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair.

I would get both those books. Also people say make a timeline. I would not add to many sex details until he asks for them.

There are some things I think are unrecoverable from. Most of men have trouble if the affair partner size is bigger. Most people are going to have an issue if you say the sex was better. I will let you decide what to do with that. 

I will be honest if he were to come on here I would tell him to move on. I would tell him that you at this point just don't have it in you to be married to him and that he will heal faster and more thoroughly without you being there. I speak from experience that as soon as I loved someone else the pain I felt from my first love cheating on me completely went away. The thing that gave it's power was the love I felt for her, after it was gone it was just a bad thing that someone did to me. I don't think that would have been the case if I had stayed. Our relationship would always have had the other man in it. 

I assume your husband knew this man since he was a friend. The thing is that man destroyed him and most likely was the most important relationship in his entire life. You repeatedly chose him over your husband. You allowed that man to disrespect him and suffer no consequences. He was your husbands enemy and honestly he was yours too you just don't see it yet. This man gave you an avenue to destroy the person who had sworn his life to you. You need to see this if you have any chance. Marriage and that relationship is sacred, you only get a few chances at this in life, and generally statistics show more chances you take the less likely you are to succeed. When your marriage is good everything in your life works better, it's one of the most important things you can do in your life, and the primary relationship in your life. I don't understand how you could have been so cavalier with it. You are only beginning to see that you have changed your life with these actions. Now your marriage goes from being something that helps you to something that you need to overcome. 
Again something you need to really get. What you had was precious, if it had problems you should have worked on it with him. If you were done you needed to leave him but with both of your dignities intact. No this guy was not a friend and you were not a friend to your husband. 

Once you get that you will start to see that you had an even worse roll in this. If he thinks correctly about his marriage you were robin to his batman. It's like robin stabbed him in the back with the Joker. Do you get that? Everything he believed to be true in his life was a lie and his partner lied to him. It will make him question every choice he made with you. Where else and in what else did you lie? That is what he is dealing with. 

The next question will be why? What didn't I do right. Now hopefully he will get to the point where he will believe that the truth is it has nothing to do with him, but he has to get there, nothing you can say will help that. Remember you have shown him you are a liar and you will lie when it's for your own benefit. This is why I say their is nothing you can do to help him. Unfortunately you have destroyed your credibility in his eyes, and rightly so. If he is wise his instinct will tell him to run. Staying with you will cause him to go against his own logical mind. That usually causes pain and makes it very hard.

To have a chance you need to really change. You need to really empathize with this point of view. The good news is if you do whatever your next relationship will be it will actually be a lot better. Thinking this way really builds intimacy. However it just may not be possible with him with all the damage that was done even if he wants it. And their is a good case that he won't want it, and truthfully that would be a smart decision for him. 

The point is your life is not over either. You can change and have a good life and a good relationship but now you see that you have some serious work you need to do.


----------



## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Thank you Pepe. I'm not sure how else to demonstrate my remorse. What would you say are actions that would be able to communicate this to a BS? For the time being I am trying to give him the space he needs and let him initiate the conversation when he is ready.


You just be available and show him, actively, that you are doing everything you can to dig deep into your issues, as you are dojng now. 

Get into weekly IC, whether or not he gives you credit for it or not. 

Apologize. Every day, several times a day. Say you are sorry 100,000 times for the next five years...and mean it. Tell him you understand you humiliated, that what you did was stupid and wrong, and that you know you hurt him and that you will do anything to help him heal. Tell him that his healing is your primary focus, and that your secondary focus is fixing yourself to make sure this never happens again. 

And never ever say "mistake" Never let that word pass your lips. Your affaire was not a mistake.


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## justlost891

bandit.45 said:


> Thank you for your answers. Now lets break these up and discuss them further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, why was your husband serious? Was he always serious or did he become that way through the daily trials and tribulations of work, marriage and family issues? Marriage is hard, and some peoples' personalities change in the face of these struggles. As a spouse, you cannot expect your partner to be that same fresh, funny, exciting person that swept you off your feet all those years ago.
> 
> He has obviously an easy going and fun side, but he's always been a more calculated person in his approach and is constantly looking at situations objectively, not letting impulse take over. I guess that is why I refer to him as serious.
> 
> Okay...so it was the newness of the OM that you found intriguing? Anything else?
> 
> like i said, his relaxed demeanor - I think it was more the fact that I could have fun without anyone bringing me back down to earth. He didn't need to, it wasn't his problem
> 
> 
> Okay so stop here. Now, ask yourself why you allowed the "friendship" to continue once you felt this attraction growing? What personal boundaries did you already have in place to protect yourself from the incursion of these feelings? Did you have any? Ask yourself if you saw the danger, why did you proceed forwards? At any time was your inner voice telling you not to let this friendship go on? At what point did you stop listening to your voice and decide to allow this relationship to go deeper....or was there any voice there at all?
> I did notice I started to become attracted to him. I think when my husband left for those months due to work is when all my walls came down after a few weeks of being alone. Also because I wasn't spending time with my husband, I was spending more time with OM
> 
> Why did you become friends with this man in the first place? What brought you two together?
> We had worked together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean when you say your husband "challenges" you? Do you mean nag? Berates you? Complains about what you do? Constantly corrects you? I'm not trying to throw blame on your husband here, only trying to get a picture of your interactions with him when it comes to daily things. Were you resenting him for this, or did you welcome his challenges?
> He doesn't nag me more than any normal person. What I mean is he challenges me intellectually. He inspires me to be better and knows what buttons to push to get me through when I'm stuck in progress.
> 
> So once the shine of the newness of this relationship with the OM started to wear off, is that when you started feeling guilt for the affair? Do you think your OM "played" you? Did he shower you with compliments to bring your boundaries down?
> It's like I came down from a high and started seeing things more clearly. I was spending time with this guy for no real reason. I felt sick to my stomach, why did I throw away my self respect and respect for my husband if I didn't see this going anywhere? I would have understood the situation better if I had seen this becoming a forever deal. OM did shower me with compliments, I can't fairly say he purposely did this with the conscious end of bringing down my boundaries
> 
> 
> Did the two of you talk only about practical every day things? How about feelings, fears and resentments?
> We talked about both. But mostly practical things, we've always been a team of two against the world and most of our conversations are about how we're tackling issues that arise. Now that I think about it, we never really used the same approach to the issues within.
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain. What had happened in your marriage or personal lives to cause the disruption?
> 
> He was forced to move to this city for work, and that meant I had to leave this amazing place I had come to call home. During the time he was alone in this new city, he did change quite a bit and I did point it out to him and how I didn't like what he was becoming. We both started working to change that (his personality shift and my trying to give this new place a shot)
> 
> 
> Okay so to some extent you two had shut each other out. Did you or him ever talk about going to marriage counseling? Did it occur to either of you to get help? we did not talk about marriage counseling at any point. I have considered individual counseling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK. How far away is the OM from you now? he is in the same city, i wouldn't be able to tell you exactly how far. It is a big enough city I'm not worried about running into him, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a compliment driven woman? Do you desire lots of validation from your husband? Was your BH telling you how pretty you were and that he found you attractive? If not, were you building up resentment for that?
> I appreciate compliments but am not constantly looking for them. Looking back, I don't think either one of us were being active in complimenting each other.
> 
> 
> But did you guys ever get help? Counseling? Did you try to come up with a specific gameplan to figure out how to meet each others' needs? No, I feel like an idiot but we did not have any specific game plan other than listening to the other when we brought things up. And to be quite franc, we are both terrible at connecting with our feelings and both tend to put up a face until things get to a point where they definitely need to be addressed.


----------



## justlost891

Pepe1970 said:


> I admit, I admire you at some level.
> Just be awared, in this forum they all will get a chunk of you.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


you all can tear me apart so I can put myself together again, that's what I'm here for. But I will not take cheap insults.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

What makes you so sure you want to reconcile? The marriage is tainted...that specialness is forever lost. Neither of you will get that back. You might get something less than back, but if you are hoping for something better, you will have some crazy mental gymnastics to perform that feat. He has probably lost all respect for you and that doesn't come back easily. It will always be there like a splinter in under his nail. Like it or not, your sexual devotion to him is a measure of his respect for you. When you give that to another , your value to him drops to territory I cannot say on this forum.

But, on the other hand if you both divorce, that is all in the past. You can build that specialness up with someone else. Its a new relationship and is no longer tainted. The past is the past. Since you don't have children, there will be nothing that keep you both in contact. Its a new start. I know you naturally don't want to bring pain to someone you care for and feel the guilt, but believe me, he will get over you. He is getting over you right now while he avoiding you. No contact equals no new pain.

You may think he's the one. But life has taught me something. There is no one. There are good one's and bad one's but there is no ONE.


----------



## justlost891

hardwired said:


> That's what he feels like ("thrown away"), along with many, many other things.
> 
> When you were having sex with the other man, or before/after that, what were your thoughts about what you were doing? Did you think, I'm going to do this because I really want it, and I'll probably not get caught, so what the hell? Did you realize that if you got caught, that would most likely be the end of your marriage? But that the thrill was worth that risk? Did you think, this is going to absolutely destroy my husband...if he finds out, it will kill him? Did you think, if I don't get caught, it's like it didn't happen? Or did you think, even if I don't get caught, I will have to live with myself, knowing I have done, several times over, something truly, truly awful and cruel? What went through your mind? How did you justify it? How did you live a double life? Did you have constant anxiety and guilt over it, or just sweep it under the rug?
> 
> I'm not attacking you at all - I'm genuinely curious as to how someone who cheats thinks, and I also think it would be valuable for you to ask yourself these questions and understand yourself...for your own sake, and for the sake of any future relationship you may have.


At the beginning of the affair, it was all new and shiny and though I did have thoughts and feelings of guilt, I pushed them away. I think it may have helped that my husband was not there physically, so I was able to mentally remove him from this too.
After a while, I came back down from ****ing lala land and realized that even if he didn't know I was hurting my husband and the guilt took over. When my husband came back to town the anxiety was terrible, I would send the nights awake just looking at him and admiring him and thinking to myself "how could I?" Unfortunately, my instinct (wrong, I know) was to protect him from the heartache and I didn't come clean to him.
I was selfish many times over.


----------



## sokillme

Here is another thing about the affair partner. No ones spouse hit every mark for a relationship in ones life. It's not like the movies where the person you are with fulfills everything you are looking for in a relationship. That doesn't mean there was something wrong with your relationship. So you say your husband was more serious, and this guy is more funny. But that's the thing. You can always meet people that in some ways fulfill something for you that your spouse doesn't. If it is a platonic friend and we are talking about things that are not an intimacy you promised to your husband that is OK. This is a good reason to avoid getting this from the opposite sex though because these things can lead to intimacy that is inappropriate. The point is just because your husband doesn't hit every button or someone is different doesn't mean there is something wrong in your relationship. Also that you should pursue the other person. It doesn't make him better then your husband in any way, your husband has given his life to you or at least he did. 

Relationships are not magic, they are work. But a good work like planting in a garden. There is joy to be had by the work and the rewards. Magic is not real, and magic thinking leads to failure. This is another thing you need to understand. You made a vow to your husband that you were going to work, and be faithful even if for a time it sucked. The reason is because of what you have now. The damage you did. At the very least it's a better strategy, but also do you want to be a person who can cause such damage? 

Learn this for the next time. Grass is always greener where you water it. That saying is true. The point is this guy could have been George Clooney and still, it should have never gotten to the place where it was acceptable for you to act on it. In that way your boyfriend was irrelevant, what he gave to you was not a reason to hurt a person who pledged his fidelity to you. If you ever do that again then NO man should matter. That was the point.

Your spouse is just your partner, not you fixer, savior or even source of all your happiness. They couldn't possibly be no one can. Asking them to be is asking them to fail.


----------



## justlost891

TAMAT said:


> JL,
> 
> You wrote, *If you don't mind I would rather continue speaking with people that offer a more civilized approach to their advice. *
> 
> Please take the more crude postings seriously, as what they are saying may accurately reflect how your H is feeling, and your H may even be too polite to tell you hence the reason he does not want to talk anymore.
> 
> You might not be able to help your H unless you understand your how your H feels, and it's hard for your H to tell you that he feels emasculated, unattractive, inferior to OM etc. You might not believe your H is any of those things but he doesn't tell you because he believes you are lying.
> 
> It's easier for men on an anonymous website to tell you how they felt about their wives affairs, then for your H to tell you.
> 
> Tamat


Thank you Tamat. I appreciate criticism and I believe things can be explained in a different way. Yes, I'm hoping you can all provide me with more insight into what my husband is going through, but he has no problem letting me know what graphic images come to his mind, believe me.


----------



## bandit.45

Thank you for answering those questions. 

1) So it sounds like his moving to the new city was the one big shakeup that cause you to seek solace in another man. One thing you need to work on is learning how to deal with separation, loneliness and boredom in more productive ways. Do you think you put too much burden on your husband to keep you busy and occupies during down times? That's one thing you can bring up in counseling. 

2) It sounds like you had shaky personal boundaries to begin with. Building up your boundaries and learning to recognize when you are in a vulnerable situation is a skill you need to develop. Then you need to develop strategies to fight against those desires to lower boundaries. 

3) Communication about feelings and personal needs was sorely lacking. It's one thing to work together to handle household budget, decide on retirement savings, make plans for the future, but if you cannot learn to be open and vulnerable to each other emotionally, you are always going to lack intimacy. Hopefully, if the he decides to reconcile, the two of you can work on this through counseling down the road. 

4) Personal accountability. This is a big one, and the one biggest goal you can work towards. At no time during this should you ever even hint at your husband having blame for your decision to cheat. Never do that. 

What is sad is that, all of these issues you had with your husband were fixable. Every single one of them. That is why affairs are so tragic...because they are senseless and needless. It sounds like your husband has all the equipment needed to be a totally satisfying partner to you, but it sounds like the two of you somehow along the line lost sight of each other.


----------



## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> At the beginning of the affair, it was all new and shiny and though I did have thoughts and feelings of guilt, I pushed them away. I think it may have helped that my husband was not there physically, so I was able to mentally remove him from this too.
> After a while, I came back down from ****ing lala land and realized that even if he didn't know I was hurting my husband and the guilt took over. When my husband came back to town the anxiety was terrible, I would send the nights awake just looking at him and admiring him and thinking to myself "how could I?" Unfortunately, my instinct (wrong, I know) was to protect him from the heartache and I didn't come clean to him.
> I was selfish many times over.


You compartmentalized the affair. Most waywards do this. It is nothing unusual. You had your husband and marriage in one box, and your boyfriend and affair in another box. Neither two ever mingled.


----------



## justlost891

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What makes you so sure you want to reconcile? The marriage is tainted...that specialness is forever lost. Neither of you will get that back. You might get something less than back, but if you are hoping for something better, you will have some crazy mental gymnastics to perform that feat. He has probably lost all respect for you and that doesn't come back easily. It will always be there like a splinter in under his nail. Like it or not, your sexual devotion to him is a measure of his respect for you. When you give that to another , your value to him drops to territory I cannot say on this forum.
> 
> But, on the other hand if you both divorce, that is all in the past. You can build that specialness up with someone else. Its a new relationship and is no longer tainted. The past is the past. Since you don't have children, there will be nothing that keep you both in contact. Its a new start. I know you naturally don't want to bring pain to someone you care for and feel the guilt, but believe me, he will get over you. He is getting over you right now while he avoiding you. No contact equals no new pain.
> 
> You may think he's the one. But life has taught me something. There is no one. There are good one's and bad one's but there is no ONE.


Thank you. A lot of you have made the point of moving on and letting this go. I don't know if it was the way I was brought up but I believe in fighting for what I think is right. And I think this is right, our relationship may (with work) become strong again. I don't know that throwing in the towel is the best course of action.
Having said that, I mentioned this before, I have come to peace that this is no longer my decision and I have to do what's right for him and what he wants to do.


----------



## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Thank you Tamat. I appreciate criticism and I believe things can be explained in a different way. *Yes, I'm hoping you can all provide me with more insight into what my husband is going through*, but he has no problem letting me know what graphic images come to his mind, believe me.


Go to the rough side of town, find a goon on the street and tell him you'll pay him $50 bucks to punch you in the stomach. Take that pain, nausea and breathlessness and multiply it times 100. Then stretch that out to last 24 hours a day. That will give you an idea. 

You set an atom bomb off in his lap. Destroyed his world. Now he will question everything about your 8 years together. He'll look back on events far past, and think about those nights when you came home later than usual, or those nights you went out commiserating with coworkers, and wonder if you were out screwing other men. 

He's wondering how good the OM was in bed, what you did for the OM sexually that you never did for him, how much bigger the OM's penis is, and how many times you rejected him sexually but turned around and put out for the OM like you were the guys' personal love doll......

He's asking himself how you could look him in the eye and tell him you loved him while you were screwing another man. 

That's just a portion of it.


----------



## colingrant

_*I really wanted to spare him the pain and thought it would be best to deny everything. *_

You probably also sought to spare yourself the pain of having caused pain in someone who trusted you with his heart. Include your own set of fears in here. Your authenticity is important from here on out, regardless of the outcome. You've lied and fooled him a lot. Time to be real, even if it hurts you and damages your reputation. 
---------------------------------
*I don't know what to do to help him.
*

1) First, understand what's been done to him. Once you have that down, multiply it by 100 and you'll be reasonable close to where he is emotionally. 

2) Stop f'king other men, first and foremost. Emasuclation through infidelity is equivalent to a marital nuclear explosion for many men. Everything is gone and nothing is recongizable in his world. Devastation is complete in every sense of the word.

3) He's obviously avoiding you, so oblige him. I'm not being mean here, but your presence probably triggers him. Many men can't stop of thinking of you being beneath the other man when looking into your eyes. It's a simultaneous thought. Your absence may help him a little or even a lot. If he's moved on, detachment from you is important and avoidance is the first means of attachment. 

4) I think you said this in your post, but do what's best for him even if it means letting him go. You can try to win him back, but don't make things difficult for him to leave. 
---------------------------------
*I would like to at least be able to take some of that pain away from him, give him an output for his anger/rage/sadness whatever it may be.
*
That's kind of you to want to do this but look to see what he wants. If avoidance is it, then help him avoid you.


----------



## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Thank you. A lot of you have made the point of moving on and letting this go. I don't know if it was the way I was brought up but I believe in fighting for what I think is right. And I think this is right, our relationship may (with work) become strong again. I don't know that throwing in the towel is the best course of action.
> Having said that, I mentioned this before, I have come to peace that this is no longer my decision and I have to do what's right for him and what he wants to do.


What UpsideDownWorld asked you was a legitimate question. 

Be that as it may, if you don't want to divorce, if you really truly love your husband, then fight for your marriage.


----------



## justlost891

bandit.45 said:


> Thank you for answering those questions.
> 
> 1) So it sounds like his moving to the new city was the one big shakeup that cause you to seek solace in another man. One thing you need to work on is learning how to deal with separation, loneliness and boredom in more productive ways. Do you think you put too much burden on your husband to keep you busy and occupies during down times? That's one thing you can bring up in counseling.
> 
> 2) It sounds like you had shaky personal boundaries to begin with. Building up your boundaries and learning to recognize when you are in a vulnerable situation is a skill you need to develop. Then you need to develop strategies to fight against those desires to lower boundaries.
> 
> 3) Communication about feelings and personal needs was sorely lacking. It's one thing to work together to handle household budget, decide on retirement savings, make plans for the future, but if you cannot learn to be open and vulnerable to each other emotionally, you are always going to lack intimacy. Hopefully, if the he decides to reconcile, the two of you can work on this through counseling down the road.
> 
> 4) Personal accountability. This is a big one, and the one biggest goal you can work towards. At no time during this should you ever even hint at your husband having blame for your decision to cheat. Never do that.
> 
> What is sad is that, all of these issues you had with your husband were fixable. Every single one of them. That is why affairs are so tragic...because they are senseless and needless. It sounds like your husband has all the equipment needed to be a totally satisfying partner to you, but it sounds like the two of you somehow along the line lost sight of each other.


Thank you so much for your time and dedication. You've given me so much to go off of. I have a lot of work to do and will try my hardest to address these issues.


----------



## VladDracul

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for the rather graphic account of my events.
> If you don't mind I would rather continue speaking with people that offer a more civilized approach to their advice.


I don't mind JL since I don't have a dog in this fight. But here's the thing. I garnered my thoughts of your mindset about your "misdemeanors" based only on what you said happened. And I'm a complete stranger. Can you envision the thoughts that are going through your husband's head? In his heart he feels you cheated with guy because he was deficient in some area important to you. You confirmed this by stating the options you considered in moving and discussions with the other man about wanting you for himself. You know you had them. He wonders why after ample opportunity to say no to this guy, you kept returning to the scene of the crime. He sees you in "passionate embrace" willingly giving yourself to another guy. If you think I gave a rather graphic account of your events wait to you hear his version. He doesn't care that you're sorry you hurt him. He wants to know why you were willing to perform these acts to begin with and why the woman he'd likely give his life for could betray in such a wanton manner. (remember, you're dealing with his perspective of the action, not yours or even the truth.)
If you cannot deal with the harsh, but I believe realistic, comments from me, how are you going to address the issue with him who is looking at you as stabbing him in the back? "I'm sorry, you're way more important than that guy, and I hope to regain your trust" ain't going to cut it. 
BTW, whatever direction this thing goes, the trust thing is forever damaged.


----------



## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Thank you so much for your time and dedication. You've given me so much to go off of. I have a lot of work to do and will try my hardest to address these issues.


Oh don't thank me yet. You have some ass-kicking coming. But for now we are all just getting to know one another. 

I don't want you to run off. 

If there are posters being rude and unfair, all you need to do is send the mods a complaint and they will deal with that person. I'm all for holding you accountable and calling you on your bullsh!t, but I won't abuse you, and we here shouldn't tolerate you being abused. 

Realize that you are among the walking wounded. TAM is a hospital full of wounded, hurting people who have had their limbs torn off. You are the cavalry soldier walking through the dead bodies of Indians who just got slaughtered by foolish people like yourself. Some of the survivors are going to want a piece of you. Just accept that. If you can, then I think we can work with you to get to the bottom of your issues. But you have to hang with us and not bail when it gets hot. Can you do that?


----------



## colingrant

*I have stopped all communication with the other man the day this all blew up. My marriage is definitely more important*.

Should reconciliation be considered by your husband, you have to acknowledge the fact that this statement is contradictory. First you stopped ONLY after it blew up. Regardless what you think, you can NEVER say you were about to end it because you hadn't. And since you hadn't, in his mind it would have gone on infinitely, with a pause here or there, only to restart. Having said that, saying "my marriage is definitely more important" sounds remarkably condescending, because if that's the case none of this would have ever happened. 

So he could be thinking, you're saying our marriage is more important, *BECAUSE YOU WERE CAUGHT.* Something to remember. WS can't sleep after DD, so their thoughts are consumed for hours and days thinking about EVERY possible nuance and detail dating back years as long as they can remember. They start connecting the dots. There's not much you'll be able to minimize or deflect, as he's probably already thought of it and could poke holes in it easily. The relevance of this is it places further doubt in his mind on your truthfulness and transparency.


----------



## hardwired

Honestly, I'd be shocked if he decided to take you back. I have 2 young kids...and I still couldn't reconcile, even though we tried. With no kids, I'd have not even given reconciliation a blip of a thought. I'd be out and make it my business to never, ever see you again. But that's just me.

You also have to realize, a man will have a _brutal_ time ever respecting himself if he stays with a cheating wife. Let alone respecting you. Do you want that?


----------



## justlost891

VladDracul said:


> I don't mind JL since I don't have a dog in this fight. But here's the thing. I garnered my thoughts of your mindset about your "misdemeanors" based only on what you said happened. And I'm a complete stranger. Can you envision the thoughts that are going through your husband's head? In his heart he feels you cheated with guy because he was deficient in some area important to you. You confirmed this by stating the options you considered in moving and discussions with the other man about wanting you for himself. You know you had them. He wonders why after ample opportunity to say no to this guy, you kept returning to the scene of the crime. He sees you in "passionate embrace" willingly giving yourself to another guy. If you think I gave a rather graphic account of your events wait to you hear his version. He doesn't care that you're sorry you hurt him. He wants to know why you were willing to perform these acts to begin with and why the woman he'd likely give his life for could betray in such a wanton manner. (remember, you're dealing with his perspective of the action, not yours or even the truth.)
> If you cannot deal with the harsh, but I believe realistic, comments from me, how are you going to address the issue with him who is looking at you as stabbing him in the back? "I'm sorry, you're way more important than that guy, and I hope to regain your trust" ain't going to cut it.
> BTW, whatever direction this thing goes, the trust thing is forever damaged.


Thank you, I appreciate you changing your approach. I understand the point of your initial post, however I prefer to discuss the "gore details" with my husband. He's laid it down pretty bad a couple of times already and I know that's not the end of it.
I know I have a lot of work to do, but I'm hoping that with time I'll be able to have a calm conversation with him and be able to communicate better.
I know the trust is not going to be back to what is was, it is my hope that I'll be able to regain some of it at least.


----------



## bandit.45

VladDracul said:


> I don't mind JL since I don't have a dog in this fight....


Now that's happy horsesh!t.... Absolutely you have a dog in this fight or you wouldn't be on TAM.


----------



## justlost891

bandit.45 said:


> Oh don't thank me yet. You have some ass-kicking coming. But for now we are all just getting to know one another.
> 
> I don't want you to run off.
> 
> If there are posters being rude and unfair, all you need to do is send the mods a complaint and they will deal with that person. I'm all for holding you accountable and calling you on your bullsh!t, but I won't abuse you, and we here shouldn't tolerate you being abused.
> 
> Realize that you are among the walking wounded. TAM is a hospital full of wounded, hurting people who have had their limbs torn off. You are the cavalry soldier walking through the dead bodies of Indians who just got slaughtered by foolish people like yourself. Some of the survivors are going to want a piece of you. Just accept that. If you can, then I think we can work with you to get to the bottom of your issues. But you have to hang with us and not bail when it gets hot. Can you do that?


Of course I can, at the end of the day that's what I'm here for. I want to learn from everyone and I'm not looking for compassion, just a glimpse at what my husband is going through and trying to understand all sides of this situation I created.


----------



## justlost891

colingrant said:


> *I have stopped all communication with the other man the day this all blew up. My marriage is definitely more important*.
> 
> Should reconciliation be considered by your husband, you have to acknowledge the fact that this statement is contradictory. First you stopped ONLY after it blew up. Regardless what you think, you can NEVER say you were about to end it because you hadn't. And since you hadn't, in his mind it would have gone on infinitely, with a pause here or there, only to restart. Having said that, saying "my marriage is definitely more important" sounds remarkably condescending, because if that's the case none of this would have ever happened.
> 
> So he could be thinking, you're saying our marriage is more important, *BECAUSE YOU WERE CAUGHT.* Something to remember. WS can't sleep after DD, so their thoughts are consumed for hours and days thinking about EVERY possible nuance and detail dating back years as long as they can remember. They start connecting the dots. There's not much you'll be able to minimize or deflect, as he's probably already thought of it and could poke holes in it easily. The relevance of this is it places further doubt in his mind on your truthfulness and transparency.


Thank you Colin for your insight. If I may point out to the fact that at the moment of the discovery, I was only speaking with OM because of his illness. Of course, it doesn't make it any better in the eyes of my husband, but the affair was long over.
I didn't mean to sound condescending, that is just the way I feel


----------



## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Of course I can, at the end of the day that's what I'm here for. I want to learn from everyone and I'm not looking for compassion, just a glimpse at what my husband is going through and trying to understand all sides of this situation I created.


Watch the movie 28 Days with Sandra Bullock. It's an awesome movie and a very good depiction of group therapy. Think of TAM as you being the new kid in group therapy, and everyone is going to be down on you, questioning everything you say, holding every word you mutter up for scrutiny, and in the end showing you the lies you tell yourself.


----------



## justlost891

hardwired said:


> Honestly, I'd be shocked if he decided to take you back. I have 2 young kids...and I still couldn't reconcile, even though we tried. With no kids, I'd have not even given reconciliation a blip of a thought. I'd be out and make it my business to never, ever see you again. But that's just me.
> 
> You also have to realize, a man will have a _brutal_ time ever respecting himself if he stays with a cheating wife. Let alone respecting you. Do you want that?


No - He is a great guy and the last thing I want is for him to ever doubt himself or lose self-respect.


----------



## GusPolinski

VladDracul said:


> I don't mind JL since I don't have a dog in this fight. But here's the thing. I garnered my thoughts of your mindset about your "misdemeanors" based only on what you said happened. And I'm a complete stranger. Can you envision the thoughts that are going through your husband's head? In his heart he feels you cheated with guy because he was deficient in some area important to you. You confirmed this by stating the options you considered in moving and discussions with the other man about wanting you for himself. You know you had them. He wonders why after ample opportunity to say no to this guy, you kept returning to the scene of the crime. He sees you in "passionate embrace" willingly giving yourself to another guy. If you think I gave a rather graphic account of your events wait to you hear his version. He doesn't care that you're sorry you hurt him. He wants to know why you were willing to perform these acts to begin with and why the woman he'd likely give his life for could betray in such a wanton manner. (remember, you're dealing with his perspective of the action, not yours or even the truth.)
> If you cannot deal with the harsh, but I believe realistic, comments from me, how are you going to address the issue with him who is looking at you as stabbing him in the back? "I'm sorry, you're way more important than that guy, and I hope to regain your trust" ain't going to cut it.
> BTW, whatever direction this thing goes, the trust thing is forever damaged.


All true.

Waste of time, folks. OP’s BH is done. If it were him here posting we’d be applauding his ability to recognize his WW’s affair for what it is, along with his subsequent resolve and decisiveness.

Oh, and what sounds like (at least thus far) his unwavering commitment to the 180.

I’ll drink a beer to this guy later tonight.


----------



## justlost891

bandit.45 said:


> Watch the movie 28 Days with Sandra Bullock. It's an awesome movie and a very good depiction of group therapy. Think of TAM as you being the new kid in group therapy, and everyone is going to be down on you, questioning everything you say, holding every word you mutter up for scrutiny, and in the end showing you the lies you tell yourself.


I saw that movie and can definitely see the similarity. In a way, I am also hoping to have that mirror put in front of me, much like you have done, so I can also see things more clearly and know what to focus on to be better and make this better.


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> All true.
> 
> Waste of time, folks. OP’s BH is done. If it were him here posting we’d be applauding his ability to recognize his WW’s affair for what it is, along with his subsequent resolve and decisiveness.
> 
> Oh, and what sounds like (at least thus far) his unwavering commitment to the 180.
> 
> I’ll drink a beer to this guy later tonight.


That's lazy Gus.

Why is it a waste of time? Yeah, maybe her husband is done, but then again if we help we may point her in a direction where she will learn how not to do this to any future man she marries. I'm thinking of that future guy. 

We get lots of waywards coming through her asking for help and we smash them. So where do they go next? SI? Do we really want this lady going over to those ****ing losers and getting so twisted up and confused that she worse off when they are done with her?


----------



## colingrant

justlost891 said:


> Thank you Colin for your insight. If I may point out to the fact that at the moment of the discovery, I was only speaking with OM because of his illness. Of course, it doesn't make it any better in the eyes of my husband, but the affair was long over.
> I didn't mean to sound condescending, that is just the way I feel


Don't apologize. It's okay to sound condescending to us on TAM, as we're here to help you. So, say what you are feeling and thinking and allow us to identify and correct thoughts and statements that won't serve you well. That's why you're here.


----------



## hardwired

justlost891 said:


> No - He is a great guy and the last thing I want is for him to ever doubt himself or lose self-respect.


Well, both those things have happened to him, full-stop. He will need a long time to regain it...depending on how strong he is. It will take him time to realize it's not he who should doubt himself or feel a lack of self-respect. I was lucky and recovered from that pretty quickly - but that's because I divorced her. And even so, there is absolutely permanent damage. He will be forever scarred by this. It will always be in his mind...he will never forget, and it will shape his relationships, platonic and not, going forward.

The damage infidelity does is so far-reaching, so profound, and so intense...it breaks my heart that people don't think about before they cheat on their spouse.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> That's lazy Gus.
> 
> Why is it a waste of time? Yeah, maybe her husband is done, but then again if we help we may point her in a direction where she will learn how not to do this to any future man she marries. I'm thinking of that future guy.
> 
> We get lots of waywards coming through her asking for help and we smash them. So where do they go next? SI? Do we really want this lady going over to those ****ing losers and getting so twisted up and confused that she worse off when they are done with her?


It’s just the truth.

Future guy? Sure. OK.

“Don’t cheat ever again” should be good enough for that, and it’s not like she needed anyone here to tell her that.

I get that OP seems to be at least a bit more introspective than your typical wayward, and sure, I’ll give her full marks for that.

But when the BS is done, it just doesn’t matter.

And any kind of gesture or overture that she makes, or love-bombing that she does, or whatever, is just going to disgust her BH and drive him further away.

Doesn’t matter where she goes or who she listens to — he’s done.

Look, I don’t relish the idea of her suffering through a divorce with a BH that she didn’t cherish even a tenth as much as she suddenly seems to now. Either way, it would behoove her to come to the realization that she’s not really afraid of losing her husband and marriage — she’s just afraid of all the changes that a divorce will bring.


----------



## GusPolinski

justlost891 said:


> No - He is a great guy and the last thing I want is for him to ever doubt himself or lose self-respect.


Too late.

That’s his new reality.

He lives it every single day, and the only way that he rids himself of that is to rid himself of you.

I realize that’s harsh, but that’s just the way it is.


----------



## hoblob

You need to seek some therapy to find out why you did what you did. We all get urges. We lust for others. We don't invite strangers to **** on our beds. You haven't shown any willingness to dig down deep and figure out what is wrong with you. He is asking himself now what is wrong with himself. 

I can tell you from experience. HE is destroyed. Absolutely destroyed. HE married you, cared for you, provided for you and someone else ****ed his wife. You haven't answered the question about why you did? You keep saying what a great guy he is and how awesome he is. Well clearly he isn't. People don't generally cheat on awesome people. I can tell you that i was cheated on because I wasn't an awesome person. She cheated because she was emotionally stunted and was a liar. After I caught her, I found out more about her in 3 hours than I did in 2 years. The walls came crumbling down. 

I didn't follow the entire thread, but whatever sexual acts you did with him, you will have to answer if he asks. Most advise against it, but he may want to know. You are going to have to be honest with him. You can't have any secrets with the OM that your husband doesn't know about. I don't doubt, that in years to come, perhaps with therapy and personal growth, you will regret this decision for the rest of your life. Years from now, even if you remarry, you will look at how stupid you were and how you hurt, what seems to be, a good person. 

I will also always advise you to be honest with whomever you are with next, that when the time comes, tell them that you cheated and your husband divorced you. You don't want a prospective match to find out through the grapevine. 

Good luck to you. Please find out why you did what you did to a person you supposedly love.


----------



## GusPolinski

justlost891 said:


> Thank you Colin for your insight. If I may point out to the fact that at the moment of the discovery, I was only speaking with OM because of his illness. Of course, it doesn't make it any better in the eyes of my husband, but the affair was long over.
> I didn't mean to sound condescending, that is just the way I feel


For as long as there’s contact, the affair is ongoing.

An affair that lasted a year and “ended” 10 years ago becomes an 11-year affair the moment that contact — via any means — is re-established.


----------



## VladDracul

bandit.45 said:


> Now that's happy horsesh!t.... Absolutely you have a dog in this fight or you wouldn't be on TAM.


In that regard, I'll concede. But more importantly, you guys need me.


----------



## ABHale

justlost891 said:


> Thank you. I have been thinking about individual counselling for quite some time. _*I didn't want to take the step of mentioning the IC for him or relationship counselling to my husband as perhaps he would read that as me hinting that some of this is his fault.*_


You are one of the few WW that think this way. It is good to see.


----------



## [email protected]

What your H is going through is one of the most devastating events a person can experience. It's comparable to death sentence or loss of a child. I'm sorry that you have done this, really and I know you hurt as well.
But, I've got to say that, after a 4 month affair you were in, your H will never forget! Your marriage is dead.


----------



## Imajerk17

Meanwhile OP, you really REALLY need to dig down into your Whys. "Because I was weak" or "Because I was selfish" isn't good enough. Somewhere along the way you actually CHOSE OM over your H. (I didn't say your marriage, because it sounds that at some point you wanted BOTH the fun of getting with OM plus the security if your marriage.)

That you don't know your whys makes it much harder for your H to be willing to give you another chance--if you have no idea what was broken then how can you fix it.


----------



## justlost891

GusPolinski said:


> For as long as there’s contact, the affair is ongoing.
> 
> An affair that lasted a year and “ended” 10 years ago becomes an 11-year affair the moment that contact — via any means — is re-established.


I understand what you are saying, never saw it that way. Thank you.


----------



## justlost891

Imajerk17 said:


> Meanwhile OP, you really REALLY need to dig down into your Whys. "Because I was weak" or "Because I was selfish" isn't good enough. Somewhere along the way you actually CHOSE OM over your H. (I didn't say your marriage, because it sounds that at some point you wanted BOTH the fun of getting with OM plus the security if your marriage.)
> 
> That you don't know your whys makes it much harder for your H to be willing to give you another chance--if you have no idea what was broken then how can you fix it.


I know I have work to do on that front. At this moment, it is the answer I can come up with, but I know I have to dig deep to get to the bottom of it.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Justlost

might i recommend you read some of the thread on here (even currently) from the men side whose wives is cheating on them...i say this because some times it helps to get perspective from the cheated spouse...it might give you insight into your husband mind right now.


----------



## MattMatt

justlost891 said:


> Thank you. I have been thinking about individual counselling for quite some time. I didn't want to take the step of mentioning the IC for him or relationship counselling to my husband as perhaps he would read that as me hinting that some of this is his fault.


He will need professional help to get through what happened to him, which is how I'd suggest it to him.


----------



## MattMatt

Lostinthought61 said:


> Justlost
> 
> might i recommend you read some of the thread on here (even currently) from the men side whose wives is cheating on them...i say this because some times it helps to get perspective from the cheated spouse...it might give you insight into your husband mind right now.


It hurts to be the cheated on spouse. Like a boulder in the chest.

"What did I do wrong?"

Somehow, the answer: "Nothing! You were/are the perfect spouse!" doesn't help. Because if we were the perfect spouse, why'd they cheat on us?"


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Lostinthought61 said:


> Justlost
> 
> might i recommend you read some of the thread on here (even currently) from the men side whose wives is cheating on them...i say this because some times it helps to get perspective from the cheated spouse...it might give you insight into your husband mind right now.


Yup been trying to help but he's handling different than I did. He's actually handling it where I fumbled it and the other team scooped it up and ran it back for 6 points lol.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

justlost891 said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> For as long as there’s contact, the affair is ongoing.
> 
> An affair that lasted a year and “ended” 10 years ago becomes an 11-year affair the moment that contact — via any means — is re-established.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand what you are saying, never saw it that way. Thank you.
Click to expand...

This rings so true. Wife had first affair with guy in 2009 and then resumed in 2017. When I found her notes it pretty much proved this point. She said she was so happy he was back in her life that she basically never got over him and when his wife found out she wrote to him she couldn't bare lose him for a third time cause they were meant to be. That means even though he wasn't physically there for 8 years he was still in our marriage, standing in the way.


----------



## stro

As far as your portion of the “fight for the marriage” , it was sadly lost when you gave in to temptation. That’s the hard part to accept. You surely battled with that decision as you allowed this man further into your world. Eventually you stopped fighting and gave in. 

Now the fight is to let go of any control you thought you had in this situation and prepare yourself for life without your husband. Hard to accept but those are the only things you have control over now. If you have shown genuine remorse and asked his forgiveness, you just have to hope that somehow he finds it possible to forgive you. 

Now, no matter what happens go to counseling. Start that process now.


----------



## justlost891

stillfightingforus said:


> Yup been trying to help but he's handling different than I did. He's actually handling it where I fumbled it and the other team scooped it up and ran it back for 6 points lol.





Lostinthought61 said:


> Justlost
> 
> might i recommend you read some of the thread on here (even currently) from the men side whose wives is cheating on them...i say this because some times it helps to get perspective from the cheated spouse...it might give you insight into your husband mind right now.


I'll definitely do a little more digging here. I've been getting a lot of information from everyone here. I have a sense most of the posters at least on this thread are BS, but I will look at those other posts as well.


----------



## justlost891

stro said:


> As far as your portion of the “fight for the marriage” , it was sadly lost when you gave in to temptation. That’s the hard part to accept. You surely battled with that decision as you allowed this man further into your world. Eventually you stopped fighting and gave in.
> 
> Now the fight is to let go of any control you thought you had in this situation and prepare yourself for life without your husband. Hard to accept but those are the only things you have control over now. If you have shown genuine remorse and asked his forgiveness, you just have to hope that somehow he finds it possible to forgive you.
> 
> Now, no matter what happens go to counseling. Start that process now.


Thank you, there is a lot of introspection I need to do and I'll try to find a professional that will help me get to the bottom of my issues.


----------



## TAMAT

I would also suggest "surviving an affair" "love busters" and "fall in love stay in love" by Dr Willard Harley.

Many people here do not like his programs, but it will give you additional viewpoints. It did save my marriage back in 2008 when I went berzerk because an 80 something year old guy giving my W gifts and my wife was taking him places etc.

Tamat


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

bandit.45 said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> All true.
> 
> Waste of time, folks. OP’s BH is done. If it were him here posting we’d be applauding his ability to recognize his WW’s affair for what it is, along with his subsequent resolve and decisiveness.
> 
> Oh, and what sounds like (at least thus far) his unwavering commitment to the 180.
> 
> I’ll drink a beer to this guy later tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> That's lazy Gus.
> 
> Why is it a waste of time? Yeah, maybe her husband is done, but then again if we help we may point her in a direction where she will learn how not to do this to any future man she marries. I'm thinking of that future guy.
> 
> We get lots of waywards coming through her asking for help and we smash them. So where do they go next? SI? Do we really want this lady going over to those ****ing losers and getting so twisted up and confused that she worse off when they are done with her?
Click to expand...

Waywards have their own forum at SI. And all the emasculated BHs come over and tell the WWs what brave and wonderful women they are, while their own WW continues to stomp on their lifeless balls nightly. It's quite touching, she may like it better than here, where we can tell her the unfiltered cold hard truth. Minus the profanity which sucks.


----------



## Dyokemm

Justlost,

I have to say.....you have come here with a decent frame of mind in a lot of ways....

Totally accepting the blame is 100% yours

Willingness to allow BH to make his decision without trying to manipulate him

Though you have yet to start digging into ‘why’ you allowed yourself to do such a crappy thing, you accept you need to look into IC

Asking for ways to ease your BH’s pain instead of ways to convince him to choose reconciling the M

Having a pretty thick skin when hearing criticism and not lashing out defensively as so many other WWs that have come here do.


That said.....I think many of the other posters here are right.....

I think your BH is most likely done.

In addition, I agree with a myrevelation and a few other posters.....there is a raging storm that is likely coming your way soon.

Based on your posts, I think initially your BH was shocked and angered by Dday, but mainly in a daze....

He is now completely withdrawing......but I will tell you what else he is doing.....he is STEWING......that anger is building up like a volcano that will soon erupt.

Be prepared for it.....

And one last thing.....

Do not EVER try to defend this POSOM to your BH in any way.....

I can ensure you that a million times a day your BH runs it through his head if it would be better to go over and end this POS immediately......or sit back and watch with glee as cancer eats him away to nothing.

If you ever defend him, or even express sympathy towards your BH about OM for his cancer, that will likely kill any feelings of love or care for you that your BH may have left.

Always remember who this a**hole is as far as your BH is concerned......he is the POS who actively assisted you in destroying BH’s life.


----------



## SA2017

stillfightingforus said:


> This rings so true. Wife had first affair with guy in 2009 and then resumed in 2017. When I found her notes it pretty much proved this point. She said she was so happy he was back in her life that she basically never got over him and when his wife found out she wrote to him she couldn't bare lose him for a third time cause they were meant to be. That means even though he wasn't physically there for 8 years he was still in our marriage, standing in the way.




WOW, this is horrible to discover after all these years. I am so sorry


----------



## SA2017

justlost891 said:


> Hello, I'm reaching out to you all as I have been reading this forum for a few days and hope you can provide some much needed advice.
> 
> Both my husband and I are in our 30s and married for almost 8 years. We have no kids together. Here's the background story:
> A couple of years ago due to his work, my husband was away for a few months, and during that time I developed a romantic relationship with a man who was up until that point a friend. During that time I was intimate with this man, and even brought him home as well.
> When my husband returned home there was an opportunity for us to relocate to another city, and at that moment though I had an option to relocate by myself to a different part of the country, I made the conscious decision to follow him and hopefully be able to put it all behind.
> A few months went by and we had a weekend trip planned to go back to the city where I had the affair. I arrived a couple of days before he did and one night out with friends, I met with the man I had an affair with, was extremely weak and was intimate with him one last time. This time, this was purely sex, and in my head, I was still only emotionally invested in my husband.
> My husband had a strong suspicion about this and confronted me with the question. At that moment, I really wanted to spare him the pain and thought it would be best to deny everything. Again, and I know what most of you are thinking, I considered this last incident as a relapse, but knew who I wanted to be with and didn't want to lose my life partner.
> At this point, I stopped all contact with the other man and blocked his number on my cellphone. However, after a few months, he reached out to me via social media (we weren't connected on social media before this point) and told me he was diagnosed with cancer and was going through a rough time. At the beginning, I ignored his messages but at one point, and I know I shouldn't have, felt terrible for his situation and started talking to him again - strictly as a friend - to try and help him through the situation.
> At present, we're looking at a timeline of almost two years since the beginning of the 4 month affair. Over a year since our last sexual encounter, and maybe six months since I learned about his illness.
> 
> A month ago, while preparing to move back to the city where it all started, my husband was already there and I was in the other city taking care of the move. One of my last days at work, my phone starting blowing up. It was my husband, who, I don't know how, had read all the Facebook messages I had received from this other man and realized about the affair (the other man mentions understanding my choice to move on with my husband despite him wanting a life together with me).
> 
> I've since moved back to the city where my husband is, luckily our rental apartment has two bedrooms so we agreed to each take our own. He told me he doesn't think being able to move past this and is seriously considering divorce, but we also both agreed to first take care of our finances and be able to make this as amicable as possible.
> 
> What truly devastates me is knowing I brought him so much pain, during a stressful time in his life on the work front. I don't know what to do to help him. He has been avoiding me like a plague, which I understand and have been trying to give him space. He has gone through great lengths to not see me at home - he goes out to dinner until late so he makes sure I am already sleeping when he comes home, and over the weekends he just disappears for hours at the time. I am constantly worried about him and think something could happen to him and I wouldn't know it because I am trying to give him the space he needs and not ask where he is. Every day I stop myself from texting him to see how he's doing, so the last couple of days I left him two letters on his night stand to hopefully be able to open up the communication between us. I would like to at least be able to take some of that pain away from him, give him an output for his anger/rage/sadness whatever it may be. It is unfair for him to be in this situation because I put him there and I feel horrible that there is not much I can do right now to help in anyway possible.
> 
> Please, help me - I need to understand how to approach him. Though I hope that with time we may be able to push through and come out on the other side in our relationship, I respect his current course of action and my ultimate goal right now is to make this at least a bit easier on him.
> 
> What advice would you be able to provide me at this time?



I have a few questions:


did you EVER consider therapy/counseling for yourself?
Did you ever suggest counseling to your husband?
what does your husband want except distance and space?


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## Lostinthought61

justlost891 said:


> I'll definitely do a little more digging here. I've been getting a lot of information from everyone here. I have a sense most of the posters at least on this thread are BS, but I will look at those other posts as well.


not all of us are BS...we come here for a host of reasons....but the principle is the same to take help and give it back to others.


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## Taxman

justlost
If you intend on fighting for this marriage, and it is going to be a deadly long haul. I want you to go to a website called SI-I dont want to use their full name, dont know if that is legal. There are two threads that you should read. The posters are Walloped and Mrs. Walloped. Walloped is also a member here. Both of those threads illustrate a marriage blown up by infidelity. Reading both will give you some idea what your husband is going through. Reading hers will give you some insight into someone who cheated and is experiencing remorse. 

I come at this a little differently, as I am also associated with the divorce industry. The ones arising from infidelity are without exception nowhere near amicable. In the best of circumstances the climate of my office was icy. Be prepared for what is coming your way. He has not as yet processed. The rage is about to come, and that is as constant as the sunrise. Not joking. This is a slow slog. If nobody has told you yet, 5-7 years, if at all.

Oh and PS, I was the cheater. I avoided a divorce, but got a revenge ONS, and yeah that is a possibility as well.


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## OutofRetirement

Your actions belie your words.

What have you done to fix this? Main thing I see you've said is:

1) You went "no contact" the minute ever since your husband found out
2) You've been completely honest ever since your husband found out

Stop talking to the guy who cheated on, and being honest - that ain't much, is it?

Your actions: You had a four-month affair, kept it secret, lied repeatedly through omission, then in commission, FINALLY, you realized you wanted to be with your husband and was completely done with other man. EXCEPT, no, you had the MOMENT OF WEAKNESS and had sex with him again after that. That's the tough part, that one there. That kind of puts a lie to the "done with him completely and want to be with only my husband."

Sokillme made a post earlier that I think kind of got very close to the heart of it - you didn't answer the difficult parts. I think your response was something like, "very interesting, you've given me a lot to think about."

I'm an anon out in cyberspace, so it's ok if you write me off as a nut - but I don't believe your story completely. The part before, you were done with it, but went back to it.

Now add back in the illness. Why lie to your husband about talking with an old colleague who has cancer? Because he suspected you cheated with that guy?

So take a sheet of paper, draw a line down the middle. On the left side, write down all of the things you've done to fix this. All your words of how you felt then and felt now and how much you love your husband. Then, on the right side, write down all of the ACTIONS you've taken. The affair itself, the recurrence, the lies. And the fact that you only quit when you got caught. Yeah, you can say you only spoke to the guy because he was sick, but given your actions and your lies, why should I, or your husband, believe that? 

Your husband was able to find out about your affair from you consoling and comforting the other man during his cancer. So, it wasn't just consoling and comforting, it was talking about the cheating, too. And what was said about that? That you were completely done with him forever, that it disgusted you? Is that what your husband read when he was able to find what you were trying to hide from him?

Your husband has been on the "outside" of that romantic triangle. Other man knew the whole truth about your marriage. Husband was completely clueless. Arguably, you had more secrets with another man than you ever had with your husband.

I'm curious with the stop contacting the other man while he was cancer. What did you tell him? What were your last words to him? Comforting? Maybe we'll be able to contact again someday?

I also wonder if your husband reads here.

You came here asking what could you do to save your marriage. There is a way to do it, but it never is a guarantee, because you can't control the other person. And, obviously, it's difficult to do, it requires stop doing what comes naturally for you, the things you've done for the length of the affair and lying, which for you is two years, maybe longer, if you were harboring attraction and thoughts about other man before the affair even started.

You have to somehow overcome your actions. Words don't match up to words. If you tell your husband you love him, and he saw your actions, which is he going to believe, your words or your actions? How many words must be said to match up to just one affair action? What actions can you do NOW?

The lying after being caught is usually the killer of the marriage, not the affair itself. I think many can understand bad decisions, attraction with others, etc., but how do you know it's just a selfish decision vs. it was "true love" and "you don't really love me"? When you lie about it later, then have additional contact, it's an uphill battle.

What it takes is being trustworthy in words and actions over a very long period of time. How long? I personally think it's got to go at least as long as the length of the affair. In your case, at least two years. Not good if he's going to divorce you. But, I played some ball when I was a little younger, and I learned that winning has a lot to positioning yourself to be able to win. Just in case. In other words, if you're losing by a lot, keep trying in case the other team let's off the gas. Your husband may or may not falter. He may have doubts if he sees you showing actions of remorse.

I'm guessing he knows you by now. He knows when you are genuine and when you are not. He suspected you were cheating, because he knew you and how you were behaving was something funny, not genuine, but he just *knew* you'd never cheat. So be genuine.

I also think you said you are kind of eating the poop sandwiches he is giving you and you have been taking it because you deserve it - I think that is going to be the case for a while - and if he is doing that is kind of a good thing for possibly reconciling. When he becomes indifferent, that's bad news.

I'm not a big believer in "giving him space." I'm not sure what "space" means, exactly. But I think you have to at least once a day to tell him you love him, want the marriage, and you'll wait for him to decide. Let him know you are always available to him whenever he is ready. I would say every morning, every night. If he doesn't want contact, I'd do that anyway. Don't push it, if he pulls away, walks away in the middle of you talking, let it be.

But he may have some pride, and he will not want to come back to intitiate a discussion. You've rejected him for another man, had a secret life with another man, so he might not want to feel like he is initiating to saving the marriage. 

How does your husband feel about other man? How do you feel about other man? Let's say you at some point you had a good friend who did you dirty and you were angry. How would you feel if your boyfriend at that time thought very highly and cared greatly about the friend who hurt you so bad? The more you could realize that this man hurt your husband, and take some anger with that, the better position you will get. I know, you did it, too. But your husband has a long history with you, so he is going to give you some "credit" for past good behavior. While other man, he has no history, nothing good the other man ever did for your husband, and your husband will not give any benefit of the doubt to other man.

Any betrayed spouse, in attempting reconciliation, involves some mental gymnastics. By actions, the cheater has shown what's what as of the time of the affair. You were in the affair when you got caught, talking with other man, comforting him, and talking positively about your physical part of the affair with him, not saying how disgusted it was. To the extent that your husband is very logical, and reasons things out, it's going to be very difficult for him to reason out that you love him. You just have to be in the position to take advantage if he has some doubts that maybe you actually do love him despite the lopsided actions of the affair vs. the paltry words of "I'm completely honest now" and "I stopped talking to my lover." Always should have been honest. Never should have had a lover, nevermind continuing to talk to him. That's basically the minimum for any marriage - being honest and not cheating. If he thinks back to your past sacrifices for him and he triggers doubts from that, you just have to be in position of having remained true to your current intentions.


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## SunCMars

bandit.45 said:


> That's lazy Gus.
> 
> Why is it a waste of time? Yeah, maybe her husband is done, but then again if we help we may point her in a direction where she will learn how not to do this to any future man she marries. I'm thinking of that future guy.
> 
> We get lots of waywards coming through her asking for help and we smash them. So where do they go next? SI? Do we really want this lady going over to those ****ing losers and getting so twisted up and confused that she worse off when they are done with her?


Ah, I see a KISA here, in you Bandit.

I too love women. 'Almost' all of them. 
Especially those with strong desires.

There is so much more that I am holding back.
I will comment no more.


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## oldtruck

justlost891 said:


> Thank you. A lot of you have made the point of moving on and letting this go. I don't know if it was the way I was brought up but I believe in fighting for what I think is right. And I think this is right, our relationship may (with work) become strong again. I don't know that throwing in the towel is the best course of action.
> Having said that, I mentioned this before, I have come to peace that this is no longer my decision and I have to do what's right for him and what he wants to do.


No matter how much a WW does not want her OM any more and her ability to 
forget the OM has no relationship to how her BH feels about her affair and the OM.
Because a WW can put the affair behind her does not mean that her BH can put the
affair and the OM behind him.


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## drifting on

Posted by Just lost 891
I did notice I started to become attracted to him. I think when my husband left for those months due to work is when all my walls came down after a few weeks of being alone. Also because I wasn't spending time with my husband, I was spending more time with OM





Posted by drifting on

I don’t mean to sound harsh, but truthfully, any way I say this will be harsh. This is how far I made it through your thread before I couldn’t hold back, a response had to be given. Maybe my perception of what you are trying to convey is off, but this is crap, and you should know that. You see I perceive this as it’s your husbands fault, he’s gone, I’m alone, my walls just fell or disappeared. No. Bandit asked what your voices told you, why you allowed yourself to continue with OM. And yet your answer is all about your husband wasn’t there. That’s crap. 

You had a workplace affair which is ideal for cheaters, very hard for a betrayed to find, let alone get evidence. When confronted, you deceived your husband further with denial of anything. You do realize that even if the sex stopped that seeing each other at work is continuing the affair, correct? Did you quit on the spot when your husband found out? What action did you take for work to never see or speak to OM again? 

Somehow your husband found the truth, but working against you now was your own denial. Your husband knows it’s not the two of you against the world, it’s the world and you against him. Every day you didn’t confess not only hurts you, it protects the OM, as you kept the secret. You truly have no idea how devastated your husband feels, the graphic questions he’s asked you, multiply that by a thousand. You see I’m a betrayed spouse, my wife had a workplace affair, I questioned her also, she denied. But for me and probably your husband, it smolders inside. Truthfully it never stops burning, it just gets more intense, it grows like a tumor causing unbelievable pain. What pain you feel is maybe a tenth of what your husband feels. 

Included in this are the mind movies you have, the images of the two of you together and laughing it up as your husband lays dying. All the conversations you and OM had, your husband is probably thinking you two destroyed him to each other. Hopefully your husband has never met OM, because if he has he’ll be thinking about the OM shaking his hand laughing that’s he’s having sex with you. All the while you stand by your husband and say nothing. You can’t undo any of this, it’s just the nature of the beast with infidelity. 

In another post you asked what actions you can do to show remorse. The answer to that is to truly have remorse. You’re giving your husband space, that’s good, you’ve written notes, ok, it’s not remorse. I’m sure you feel guilty, I’m sure you wish you could take it all back, that’s not enough. You need to first make your husband feel safe, you then need to enter individual counseling. You need to know why you fell in love with another man, why you then had sex with him, why you then protected him over your husband, why you didn’t have any walls or boundaries. You said your walls came down, again crap, they were never there to begin with. Same as my wife, someone walks up, says a few nice things and suddenly this person is more attractive. You then strike up a friendship, first boundary crossed, start seeing each other after work, by then your on the slippery slope as they say and it’s off to the races. 

I know I come across as insulting and harsh, I’m not trying to be, I’m trying to show you the reality of your actions and choices. Reality is also that you have value, so I implore you to begin individual counseling to understand the actions and choices you made. Just so you know, I reconciled with my wife, and my story is far worse then what you have done. Maybe that gives you hope, or faith, but all of this comes down to your husband. Whether or not he can accept, move forward, forgive, and maybe with individual and marital counseling this can be reconciled. I don’t say saved because your marriage died the minute you had sex with OM. Allow your husband to grieve that loss, you should too, and then start over if your husband decides to reconcile. I wish you the best, although I’m sure you don’t believe me.


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## bandit.45

SunCMars said:


> Ah, I see a KISA here, in you Bandit.
> 
> I too love women. 'Almost' all of them.
> Especially those with strong desires.
> 
> There is so much more that I am holding back.
> I will comment no more.


Im not a KISA. This woman asked for our help so why don’t we help? We almost never take the time to help waywards here. 

You can say whatever you want. And I can say when I think you’re full of it.


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## bandit.45

OP if you want to I think you should fight to save your marriage until the ink is dry on the Judge’s signature on that divorce decree. 

And even after that, continue working on your issues so that you don’t do this sgain to another man.


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## alte Dame

I've jumped ahead a bit, so please ignore me if I'm repeating what you've heard already.

1. Read 'How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair' and 'Not Just Friends.' As you do this, try to START to understand what real remorse looks like. I don't think you're there yet, even though you have some good insight on the pain that you have caused your BH.

2. Make it clear that you will fight for him until the divorce is final & even after that, you will fight if there's even the smallest chance.

3. Don't assume he 'needs space.' Many betrayeds push away the cheater for many, many reasons, but 'giving space' often looks like you don't care and are happy to go about your business while the BS is dying a slow death.

This isn't rocket science, but there is also no easy formula. You need to find remorse. In my opinion, that is the point from which R can truly begin to happen.


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## kekkek

hardwired said:


> Honestly, I'd be shocked if he decided to take you back. I have 2 young kids...and I still couldn't reconcile, even though we tried. With no kids, I'd have not even given reconciliation a blip of a thought. I'd be out and make it my business to never, ever see you again. But that's just me.
> 
> You also have to realize, a man will have a _brutal_ time ever respecting himself if he stays with a cheating wife. Let alone respecting you. Do you want that?


I was like this. I didn't spend a lot of time imagining my ex and what she might have done with her AP. What did happen was that I stopped caring about her immediately. The analogy about losing a limb is appropriate. If someone's foot gets blown off, they don't pick up the foot and wander around saying "oh my poor foot". They know that the foot is gone, that it hurts like hell, and that they need to learn how to live without the foot. Whereas before the foot and the self were one, now they are severed, and the self is only on one side.

So my ex was like the foot. Sorry if this is insulting to feet.

The respect mentioned by hardwired just makes it harder to reconcile. Even if the love is there, sometimes honor requires another path.


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## smi11ie

There are no kids. Just divorce.

A drunken one night stand is a mistake,a 4 month sexual affair is not.

Don’t drag him (and yourself) through the pain. Understand that affairs are not a good thing for a marriage (I honestly cannot believe that everyone is not aware of that). You can remarry him or marry another guy when you feel like you “get it”.

Oh, and by the way, the other guy is NOT YOUR FRIEND!!!!!!!!


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## stillthinking

What can you do to help him thru this?

Nothing really.

He does not appear to want anything from you. 

If he decides to internalize your lack of character and horrid actions, and in some way blame himself, then he is going to suffer for awhile. 

If he decides that your behavior is on you and you alone, then we will bounce back much quicker.

Either way you are the cause of all of his pain. Victims of rape usually do not want the help of the rapist. 

You stabbed him in the back, and then shot him. He has jumped in the ambulance, leaving the scene of the crime, and the assailant, behind. You running after him offering Band-Aids and ointment is not going to help. 

It may make you feel better. An attempt to assuage a small piece of your new found guilt. But it does nothing for him.


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## Windwalker

Yes, it's called respect the man's wishes and leave him the hell alone. You don't get to make decisions for him. He controls his life and what he will accept. Sounds like he is doing so. Good for him! 




justlost891 said:


> Hello, I'm reaching out to you all as I have been reading this forum for a few days and hope you can provide some much needed advice.
> 
> Both my husband and I are in our 30s and married for almost 8 years. We have no kids together. Here's the background story:
> A couple of years ago due to his work, my husband was away for a few months, and during that time I developed a romantic relationship with a man who was up until that point a friend. During that time I was intimate with this man, and even brought him home as well.
> When my husband returned home there was an opportunity for us to relocate to another city, and at that moment though I had an option to relocate by myself to a different part of the country, I made the conscious decision to follow him and hopefully be able to put it all behind.
> A few months went by and we had a weekend trip planned to go back to the city where I had the affair. I arrived a couple of days before he did and one night out with friends, I met with the man I had an affair with, was extremely weak and was intimate with him one last time. This time, this was purely sex, and in my head, I was still only emotionally invested in my husband.
> My husband had a strong suspicion about this and confronted me with the question. At that moment, I really wanted to spare him the pain and thought it would be best to deny everything. Again, and I know what most of you are thinking, I considered this last incident as a relapse, but knew who I wanted to be with and didn't want to lose my life partner.
> At this point, I stopped all contact with the other man and blocked his number on my cellphone. However, after a few months, he reached out to me via social media (we weren't connected on social media before this point) and told me he was diagnosed with cancer and was going through a rough time. At the beginning, I ignored his messages but at one point, and I know I shouldn't have, felt terrible for his situation and started talking to him again - strictly as a friend - to try and help him through the situation.
> At present, we're looking at a timeline of almost two years since the beginning of the 4 month affair. Over a year since our last sexual encounter, and maybe six months since I learned about his illness.
> 
> A month ago, while preparing to move back to the city where it all started, my husband was already there and I was in the other city taking care of the move. One of my last days at work, my phone starting blowing up. It was my husband, who, I don't know how, had read all the Facebook messages I had received from this other man and realized about the affair (the other man mentions understanding my choice to move on with my husband despite him wanting a life together with me).
> 
> I've since moved back to the city where my husband is, luckily our rental apartment has two bedrooms so we agreed to each take our own. He told me he doesn't think being able to move past this and is seriously considering divorce, but we also both agreed to first take care of our finances and be able to make this as amicable as possible.
> 
> What truly devastates me is knowing I brought him so much pain, during a stressful time in his life on the work front. I don't know what to do to help him. He has been avoiding me like a plague, which I understand and have been trying to give him space. He has gone through great lengths to not see me at home - he goes out to dinner until late so he makes sure I am already sleeping when he comes home, and over the weekends he just disappears for hours at the time. I am constantly worried about him and think something could happen to him and I wouldn't know it because I am trying to give him the space he needs and not ask where he is. Every day I stop myself from texting him to see how he's doing, so the last couple of days I left him two letters on his night stand to hopefully be able to open up the communication between us. I would like to at least be able to take some of that pain away from him, give him an output for his anger/rage/sadness whatever it may be. It is unfair for him to be in this situation because I put him there and I feel horrible that there is not much I can do right now to help in anyway possible.
> 
> Please, help me - I need to understand how to approach him. Though I hope that with time we may be able to push through and come out on the other side in our relationship, I respect his current course of action and my ultimate goal right now is to make this at least a bit easier on him.
> 
> What advice would you be able to provide me at this time?


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## 269370

justlost891 said:


> Of course I can, at the end of the day that's what I'm here for. I want to learn from everyone and I'm not looking for compassion, just a glimpse at what my husband is going through and trying to understand all sides of this situation I created.



I don’t know if it’s going to be helpful to you actually. I have a feeling the others taking out their hurt on you might be more helpful to them than the advice you may receive (if any) on how to get your marriage back on track is helpful to you. You should consider professional counselling for the both of you. It’s something both of you could potentially overcome with the right approach. 

A lot of wayward spouses come here and all they get is bashing. Perhaps it makes them feel better because they feel guilty but as a human with common sense and some empathy surely you must know and understand what your husband is going through. I’m not certain you will get what you are looking for here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars

I want so bad to crack this egg, my recipe's egg.

My hands are too clumsy, my mind juggling all the thin shells seen here.

Most of the men have passionately presented their finished omelet, expressed their feelings.
And they have done a wonderful job. They have.


But somethng is missing in their final product.
All the eggs cooked by the TAM men, our clansmen, are pretty much the same.
All are salty. Most are bitter tasting.


I know that men are wondrous creatures, but very few can cook.
Few are chefs.

The male chefs are absent here. Or, they are meat and potato guys.
This is not a 'cut' to any of the men who posted on this thread.

They are either wounded or have thin shells.

When you have an extremely thin shell, it is hard to make an egg, "Sunny side up".
The thin shell breaks the yolk every time.

My problem?

I see too much.
Empathize too much.
Understand too much.
Forgive too much.

Forget nothing.
Well, forget nothing important.

Betrayal leaves an aftertaste.
Understanding is a spice that covers up all 'tart' sins.

Overcomes, not vanquishes 'torts'.

I want so bad to crack this egg.




The Typist I, from his notes in the CC


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## SentHereForAReason

inmyprime said:


> I don’t know if it’s going to be helpful to you actually. I have a feeling the others taking out their hurt on you might be more helpful to them than the advice you may receive (if any) on how to get your marriage back on track is helpful to you. You should consider professional counselling for the both of you. It’s something both of you could potentially overcome with the right approach.
> 
> A lot of wayward spouses come here and all they get is bashing. Perhaps it makes them feel better because they feel guilty but as a human with common sense and some empathy surely you must know and understand what your husband is going through. I’m not certain you will get what you are looking for here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She's going to get a lot of the bashing but I think this is a good place for help in her situation, unless you meant this is not the right sub-forum of TAM?

Hopefully this breaks it down for help in my opinion. I think she really loves her husband but it totally underestimating how much damage she did and how much she was enticed by other man. I don't think she minimized the affair so much as to the effect it had on both her and her spouse at different times. Once she realizes why she could never break contact with him and what really brought her to OM in the first place and kept her coming back, that would be a good place to go with therapy. I would recommend IC in her case since she wants to save the marriage and if he's not willing to do MC. I think that could help her get her head straight a bit and go from there.

I heard how individual counseling could be a death blow to marriages, particularly when the spouse that is going wants out and is looking for justification. I now know how true that is. In my situation, my STBXW got all the justification she needed from her phone therapist to follow her heart. I know she was probably feeding the therapist filtered things and lies about me but I know when I found out all the details about the affair in December that her therapist knew about the other man and apparently was ok with it. Guess what I'm getting at here, is that OP does not want out so I think IC can be of a help to her. IC + MC if her husband wants to do it would be a good start. MC may help him see why she did what she did and if she is truly remorseful and what he could still see (positives) in staying with her and trying to work it out.


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## hoblob

people say affairs are harder to forgive for men. I don’t think that’s true. I think it’s the circumstances surrounding it. For instance I know a couple that cheated on each other and ended up together. The only they would break down their barriers was by hurting each other. 
They’re still together. Some people can get passed it. But if he thought all is well and doesnt see any blame on why his relationship crumbled, then you will never get him back
Also, 4 months is a ton of sex. That’s hard to get over for anyone. As someone said, drunken one night stand, vs 4 months of sexual and emotional activity. 
I would keep fighting. Write him letters etc. if you want him to stay in the relationship. He is emasculated, but not as emasculated had you left him for the AP and then come back to him. Some people get through that as well. Don’t know how


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## bethebetterman

jumping ahead a little hear so apologies if this has already been covered.

I was where your husband is two years ago. You need to think very carefully about what your relationship would look like if you R.

Are you prepared for the constant mistrust, the restrictions on your freedom, the changes that you will have to make. It will never be the same again and you cant expect it to be. The relationship you had with BS is over. To R you will need to replace it with a different one. Its very, very unlikely that he will ever get over it. It will never be the same as it was. Do you really want that? Are you prepared to live like that?

As others have said its his choice whether he allows you back into his life at all. You have taken some positive steps by being honest with him off the bat and giving him space. When he has processed it he is going to be very angry, he will be up and down and all over the place for months or even years to come. It will affect and change who he is and you might not like the results - particularly as far as your relationship with him is concerned.

I guess what I am trying to say is you should be careful what you wish for. Don't start something you will not be able to see through. If he does allow you back in there is a huge amount of work you will both need to do - don't look at this with rose tinted glasses. 

If you are sure that what you want then tell him and give him time and space to respond. Its likely it will be a flat no. About the only thing you have control over at the moment is yourself. So take some time to discover what went wrong. Why (if you love our husband) did you cheat. The answer will be within you - it wont be anything your husband did. Think about it this way - if you were unhappy with an aspect of your relationship with H did you raise it and attempt to resolve it. If it wasn't resolvable was it important enough that you needed to end the marriage. There are absolutely no reasons to cheat that don't come from inside the cheater. Find out why and you will take responsibility for the affair and you will be able to learn and grow. You should also help him with the divorce and finances - don't turn it into a battle - be fair to him and he will likely in the end be fair to you. Who knows after you have worked on why you cheated and after all the dust has settled maybe there will be enough left for you both to try again together. If not at least you won't make the same mistake next time round...


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## StillSearching

*"How to help your spouse heal from your affair".* 
YES YES YES YES YES!!
NOW NOW NOW!


----------



## arbitrator

*If you are truly remorseful for your actions, if reconciliation is a viable option, and your H is worth fighting for, then do it all the way up until the final pronouncement of divorce, if need be!

If it doesn't happen, however, then chalk it all up to experience and just move on!*


----------



## Taxman

hoblob said:


> people say affairs are harder to forgive for men. I don’t think that’s true. I think it’s the circumstances surrounding it. For instance I know a couple that cheated on each other and ended up together. The only they would break down their barriers was by hurting each other.
> They’re still together. Some people can get passed it. But if he thought all is well and doesnt see any blame on why his relationship crumbled, then you will never get him back
> Also, 4 months is a ton of sex. That’s hard to get over for anyone. As someone said, drunken one night stand, vs 4 months of sexual and emotional activity.
> I would keep fighting. Write him letters etc. if you want him to stay in the relationship. He is emasculated, but not as emasculated had you left him for the AP and then come back to him. Some people get through that as well. Don’t know how


The other warning I might as well give you is be prepared for some extreme behavior. My wife was not forthcoming with the name of the guy she slept with. Her GF, who wanted to sleep with me, let the cat out of the bag. I let my wife know that I knew, and within 24 hours, I waited behind her office, and assaulted her AP. I beat the little prick senseless. I knew full well that he would not call police as he was in our country illegally. It also caused my wife to leave that job that moment, as everyone in the company found out at that time. I humiliated the absolute **** out of her. She could not look one of those people in the eye ever again. It amazes me to this day that we ever got back together after that, however, we discovered that the entire revenge thing had been engineered by her GF. (I got her back as well-provided info to her ex so that he was awarded custody)

That is extreme behavior. That is what rage will do. Be prepared, I have had several clients who outed their wayward spouses in ways that were earth shattering. One woman sent the videos of her husband and the AP to their offices. They walked in one morning to find a video of their tryst playing on everyone's computer. They also were escorted out of the building. One of mine sabotaged his wife's life completely. Yes she had multiple affairs, however, when he went after her, she was left socially isolated. There was not one person outside of her therapist that was talking to her, then he managed to get her therapy cut off. She eventually signed herself into a psych ward. She ended up walking away from everything she knew, moving across country and starting anew in her early 50's. And to add insult, he found out where she was, and kept sending her announcements of his impending marriage and the birth of his new child. She may have been wayward, but the punishments eventually outstripped the crime.


----------



## hoblob

Taxman said:


> The other warning I might as well give you is be prepared for some extreme behavior. My wife was not forthcoming with the name of the guy she slept with. Her GF, who wanted to sleep with me, let the cat out of the bag. I let my wife know that I knew, and within 24 hours, I waited behind her office, and assaulted her AP. I beat the little prick senseless. I knew full well that he would not call police as he was in our country illegally. It also caused my wife to leave that job that moment, as everyone in the company found out at that time. I humiliated the absolute **** out of her. She could not look one of those people in the eye ever again. It amazes me to this day that we ever got back together after that, however, we discovered that the entire revenge thing had been engineered by her GF. (I got her back as well-provided info to her ex so that he was awarded custody)
> 
> That is extreme behavior. That is what rage will do. Be prepared, I have had several clients who outed their wayward spouses in ways that were earth shattering. One woman sent the videos of her husband and the AP to their offices. They walked in one morning to find a video of their tryst playing on everyone's computer. They also were escorted out of the building. One of mine sabotaged his wife's life completely. Yes she had multiple affairs, however, when he went after her, she was left socially isolated. There was not one person outside of her therapist that was talking to her, then he managed to get her therapy cut off. She eventually signed herself into a psych ward. She ended up walking away from everything she knew, moving across country and starting anew in her early 50's. And to add insult, he found out where she was, and kept sending her announcements of his impending marriage and the birth of his new child. She may have been wayward, but the punishments eventually outstripped the crime.


You assualted someone while you were an attorney. Playing with Fire. That certainly is rage. How is your marriage going. Am I correct in assuming you both cheated? How long ago was that?


----------



## sokillme

@justlost891 are you still around?


----------



## Taxman

T/J
I am not an attorney, I am an accountant. At the time, I was self-employed (working per diem for an old boss). This was no risk. I had known that her company always hired illegals. I had warned her to leave before immigration raided the place. I actually beat him while his colleagues looked on, their hands were tied, because if just one touched me, and I called police, they would have been apprehended. They were yelling and cursing at me, and when I yelled out he had ****ed my wife, they turned their backs. One told me he was married as well, and a casually asked that they contact his wife to tell her about his beat down.

This was 30 years ago, and I had purchased a business that went down the tubes pdq. I stupidly had a two week affair with a customer. My wife caught on, and turfed me. The business was gone in short order, and I ghosted my AP, and asked for reconciliation. She told me no originally, then a few days later, it was yes, BUT her terms were that she was going to sleep with another guy. That really came out of left field for her. Completely out of character. As I found out, and this caused my meltdown, her best GF, who was her assistant at work, set the whole thing up, she pointed the guy at my wife, and told my wife that she should get me back, if she wanted a reconciliation. She even recommended the bar they went to beforehand. When this came out, I told my wife to go to hell, and I told her mom and dad what she did. They were massively peed with both of us. Found out a month or so later, that she was finding it impossible to get another job. We were in recession, and she did not have a reference. She was a month from being homeless, so I stepped up with rent money. That spurred dating. We courted and dated all over again. We moved back in together after six months. It was pure hell, and sometimes, I cannot believe we fixed it, and made something better out of it. That is my story.
T/J over.


----------



## bandit.45

Taxman said:


> The other warning I might as well give you is be prepared for some extreme behavior. My wife was not forthcoming with the name of the guy she slept with. Her GF, who wanted to sleep with me, let the cat out of the bag. I let my wife know that I knew, and within 24 hours, I waited behind her office, and assaulted her AP. I beat the little prick senseless. I knew full well that he would not call police as he was in our country illegally. It also caused my wife to leave that job that moment, as everyone in the company found out at that time. I humiliated the absolute **** out of her. She could not look one of those people in the eye ever again. It amazes me to this day that we ever got back together after that, however, we discovered that the entire revenge thing had been engineered by her GF. (I got her back as well-provided info to her ex so that he was awarded custody)
> .


Taxman, next to MattMatt you have the most interesting life of all the TAM guys.


----------



## bandit.45

It's hard to help a person when you're busy kicking the **** out of her. 

TAM needs an enema.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

bandit.45 said:


> It's hard to help a person when you're busy kicking the **** out of her.
> 
> TAM needs an enema.


Sorry, immediately thought of this lol


----------



## 269370

stillfightingforus said:


> She's going to get a lot of the bashing but I think this is a good place for help in her situation, unless you meant this is not the right sub-forum of TAM?
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully this breaks it down for help in my opinion. I think she really loves her husband but it totally underestimating how much damage she did and how much she was enticed by other man. I don't think she minimized the affair so much as to the effect it had on both her and her spouse at different times. Once she realizes why she could never break contact with him and what really brought her to OM in the first place and kept her coming back, that would be a good place to go with therapy. I would recommend IC in her case since she wants to save the marriage and if he's not willing to do MC. I think that could help her get her head straight a bit and go from there.
> 
> 
> 
> I heard how individual counseling could be a death blow to marriages, particularly when the spouse that is going wants out and is looking for justification. I now know how true that is. In my situation, my STBXW got all the justification she needed from her phone therapist to follow her heart. I know she was probably feeding the therapist filtered things and lies about me but I know when I found out all the details about the affair in December that her therapist knew about the other man and apparently was ok with it. Guess what I'm getting at here, is that OP does not want out so I think IC can be of a help to her. IC + MC if her husband wants to do it would be a good start. MC may help him see why she did what she did and if she is truly remorseful and what he could still see (positives) in staying with her and trying to work it out.




No, I meant that TAM is mainly populated by betrayed spouses and they will therefore more likely take out their frustrations on her rather than provide useful feedback. Alte Dame’s advice was useful I thought. I agree that leaving the husband alone might appear like she doesn’t care in his eyes. I would want to feel that all my wife thinks or wants is fight for me and the marriage if something like this ever happened to me.

I don’t think she is stupid or not remorseful and knows what she did to the marriage and the bashing would seem more appropriate for 14 year olds or immature individuals (no offence).

The fact that she doesn’t know why she did it strikes me as an honest answer. It doesn’t mean it might be an acceptable answer to her husband but I actually think that is completely plausible in many of these situations. Humans can be weak and are not always immediately aware of consequences. I don’t mean that this excuses it in any way just that I believe her when she says she didn’t know why she was doing it. I feel like she should be directing her emotional resources at her husband and trying to find a good marriage counsellor together rather than explain herself and answer questions on TAM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## justlost891

SA2017 said:


> I have a few questions:
> 
> 
> did you EVER consider therapy/counseling for yourself?
> Did you ever suggest counseling to your husband?
> what does your husband want except distance and space?


Hi -
I am currently trying to find counseling for myself, this is something I used to have several years back and now I realize I shouldn't have stopped. Clearly I need to work on some deeper things than the ones that originally brought me there.
I've never suggested counseling to my husband, I'm afraid he may see it as me insinuating he has some responsibility on this matter.
Lastly, he mentioned since the beginning that he wants to divorce. Our goal at the moment is to separate our finances to make it an easier process from a legal stand point. He hasn't mentioned much in the last days, he's been avoiding me for the most part.


----------



## justlost891

Taxman said:


> justlost
> If you intend on fighting for this marriage, and it is going to be a deadly long haul. I want you to go to a website called SI-I dont want to use their full name, dont know if that is legal. There are two threads that you should read. The posters are Walloped and Mrs. Walloped. Walloped is also a member here. Both of those threads illustrate a marriage blown up by infidelity. Reading both will give you some idea what your husband is going through. Reading hers will give you some insight into someone who cheated and is experiencing remorse.
> 
> I come at this a little differently, as I am also associated with the divorce industry. The ones arising from infidelity are without exception nowhere near amicable. In the best of circumstances the climate of my office was icy. Be prepared for what is coming your way. He has not as yet processed. The rage is about to come, and that is as constant as the sunrise. Not joking. This is a slow slog. If nobody has told you yet, 5-7 years, if at all.
> 
> Oh and PS, I was the cheater. I avoided a divorce, but got a revenge ONS, and yeah that is a possibility as well.


Thank you for your insight and recommendations. I suspect he has been working on the revenge if you know what I mean.


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## justlost891

oldtruck said:


> No matter how much a WW does not want her OM any more and her ability to
> forget the OM has no relationship to how her BH feels about her affair and the OM.
> Because a WW can put the affair behind her does not mean that her BH can put the
> affair and the OM behind him.


this is very true. I also feel like he is somewhat catching up when I had all this time to realize the gravity of my actions.


----------



## justlost891

drifting on said:


> In another post you asked what actions you can do to show remorse. The answer to that is to truly have remorse. You’re giving your husband space, that’s good, you’ve written notes, ok, it’s not remorse. I’m sure you feel guilty, I’m sure you wish you could take it all back, that’s not enough. You need to first make your husband feel safe, you then need to enter individual counseling. You need to know why you fell in love with another man, why you then had sex with him, why you then protected him over your husband, why you didn’t have any walls or boundaries. You said your walls came down, again crap, they were never there to begin with. Same as my wife, someone walks up, says a few nice things and suddenly this person is more attractive. You then strike up a friendship, first boundary crossed, start seeing each other after work, by then your on the slippery slope as they say and it’s off to the races.
> 
> I know I come across as insulting and harsh, I’m not trying to be, I’m trying to show you the reality of your actions and choices. Reality is also that you have value, so I implore you to begin individual counseling to understand the actions and choices you made. Just so you know, I reconciled with my wife, and my story is far worse then what you have done. Maybe that gives you hope, or faith, but all of this comes down to your husband. Whether or not he can accept, move forward, forgive, and maybe with individual and marital counseling this can be reconciled. I don’t say saved because your marriage died the minute you had sex with OM. Allow your husband to grieve that loss, you should too, and then start over if your husband decides to reconcile. I wish you the best, although I’m sure you don’t believe me.


Thank you for your comments and providing me with a critical eye to what I've said. It could very well be that I didn't have boundaries to begin with. Someone else also said that perhaps I crave compliments, I never saw it that way but the more I think about it, it makes sense.
I'm glad to know you and your wife are being able to continue to work on your relationship and I too wish you the best.


----------



## justlost891

alte Dame said:


> I've jumped ahead a bit, so please ignore me if I'm repeating what you've heard already.
> 
> 1. Read 'How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair' and 'Not Just Friends.' As you do this, try to START to understand what real remorse looks like. I don't think you're there yet, even though you have some good insight on the pain that you have caused your BH.
> 
> 2. Make it clear that you will fight for him until the divorce is final & even after that, you will fight if there's even the smallest chance.
> 
> 3. Don't assume he 'needs space.' Many betrayeds push away the cheater for many, many reasons, but 'giving space' often looks like you don't care and are happy to go about your business while the BS is dying a slow death.
> 
> This isn't rocket science, but there is also no easy formula. You need to find remorse. In my opinion, that is the point from which R can truly begin to happen.


Thank you for your advice. At the recommendation of other posters here, I have ordered both those books and look forward to receiving them to continue my work.
I'd love to be given the chance, today my hopes are down because of not being able to see him even. He has been avoiding me and I haven't gotten the opportunity to speak with him in person. I've left him a couple of letters but I also am afraid of overstepping the boundaries he's putting in place. Trust me, there's nothing I'd love more than to cross them and resume the communication.


----------



## sokillme

@justlost891 I am going to ask you some questions I want you to try really hard to answer them.

What do you think he wanted from his marriage?

What did you want?

What do you think he would say about his marriage now?

What do you think he would say about his wife?

When you thought about being his wife as you were getting married what did you think about that?

How do you think HE feels about how YOU feel about your affair partner?

How do you think he feels in comparison to him?

Did you ever love your boyfriend?

Do you think he thinks you did?

What do you think love is?

Did you love your husband?

What do you think he feels about the effort he put into you?

How does that compare to the effort that your boyfriend put into you?

What was his goals for his life, how do you think that has changed now?

What do you think he loved most about your relationship?

What do you think were his best memories what do you think now?

Of those two what do you think he thinks of those two things now?

When he looks back on your marriage what do you think he will say about it?

How did you feel about yourself in relationship to him?

Was there ever a time where you felt you belonged together and you were his, or a part of him?

What do you think of that now?

When you are gone and out of his life (whether now or years from now) how do you think he will remember you?

What would he say about love? 

How do you think this will effect his relationships going forward?

How do you think it will effect yours?

How do you think it will effect his relationship with women?

How will this effect your relationship with men?

How do you think your life will be going forward?

How do you think his life will be going forward?

How do you think you will be remembered?

How do you want to be remembered?


I want you to try really hard and think about how he would answer these questions. One of the things I notice about people who cheat and/or have just be caught cheating is they don't really sit and try to put themselves in spouses shoes. Or at least it takes a long time to get there. But really I think that is the only way you are going to get what you did. It's needed. There is always a lot of short term thinking, but what is always missing is long term. I am trying to ask questions that make you think that way.


----------



## justlost891

StillSearching said:


> *"How to help your spouse heal from your affair".*
> YES YES YES YES YES!!
> NOW NOW NOW!


already ordered and shipped


----------



## justlost891

Taxman said:


> The other warning I might as well give you is be prepared for some extreme behavior. My wife was not forthcoming with the name of the guy she slept with. Her GF, who wanted to sleep with me, let the cat out of the bag. I let my wife know that I knew, and within 24 hours, I waited behind her office, and assaulted her AP. I beat the little prick senseless. I knew full well that he would not call police as he was in our country illegally. It also caused my wife to leave that job that moment, as everyone in the company found out at that time. I humiliated the absolute **** out of her. She could not look one of those people in the eye ever again. It amazes me to this day that we ever got back together after that, however, we discovered that the entire revenge thing had been engineered by her GF. (I got her back as well-provided info to her ex so that he was awarded custody)
> 
> That is extreme behavior. That is what rage will do. Be prepared, I have had several clients who outed their wayward spouses in ways that were earth shattering. One woman sent the videos of her husband and the AP to their offices. They walked in one morning to find a video of their tryst playing on everyone's computer. They also were escorted out of the building. One of mine sabotaged his wife's life completely. Yes she had multiple affairs, however, when he went after her, she was left socially isolated. There was not one person outside of her therapist that was talking to her, then he managed to get her therapy cut off. She eventually signed herself into a psych ward. She ended up walking away from everything she knew, moving across country and starting anew in her early 50's. And to add insult, he found out where she was, and kept sending her announcements of his impending marriage and the birth of his new child. She may have been wayward, but the punishments eventually outstripped the crime.


Those stories are just terrible. I can see where the ideas come from though.


----------



## justlost891

sokillme said:


> @justlost891 are you still around?


yeah i'm here - i'm not available all day due to work schedules.


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> yeah i'm here - i'm not available all day due to work schedules.


Good, stick with it. Now answer my questions.


----------



## justlost891

sokillme said:


> @justlost891 I am going to ask you some questions I want you to try really hard to answer them.
> 
> What do you think he wanted from his marriage?
> a woman to love a build his life with. someone who he would be able to consider his best friend and would have each other's backs.
> What did you want?
> pretty much the same thing. I wanted a partner for the rest of my life. Someone who would get me
> What do you think he would say about his marriage now?
> well... right now it's no longer. Before this all came up, I believe he would have said it was still a strong partnership, not so much a couple
> What do you think he would say about his wife?
> lying *****
> When you thought about being his wife as you were getting married what did you think about that?
> I felt so lucky. Someone like him thinking I am good enough to commit to forever.
> How do you think HE feels about how YOU feel about your affair partner?
> he probably thinks I still have feelings for him. During one conversation at the very beginning, he did mention noticing I had stopped talking to him and he didn't seem to get the message.
> How do you think he feels in comparison to him?
> He's doubting himself. Surely he must think there is something I got elsewhere, that I couldn't get from him.
> Did you ever love your boyfriend?
> I think the word would be infatuated. I never felt like spending the rest of my times with the guy.
> Do you think he thinks you did?
> yes
> What do you think love is?
> I think it's respecting and honoring the other person. Putting their feelings before your own, while maintaining a balance for both people as they become one whole.
> Did you love your husband?
> well, by the very description I gave above, apparently not.
> What do you think he feels about the effort he put into you?
> He feels he put more effort than me. He thinks he made sure to try and further his career for the both of us when I complained about the moves
> How does that compare to the effort that your boyfriend put into you?
> no comparison - the OM was only there to entertain me, not to take care of me. Yes, there was effort to do fun things, but it's not the same level of effort - it's like comparing apples to oranges
> What was his goals for his life, how do you think that has changed now?
> He's always been very career-oriented, I don't believe that has changed for him. What has changed is his support system and partnership he has with me.
> What do you think he loved most about your relationship?
> the amazing team we were
> What do you think were his best memories what do you think now?
> he always brings our ski trips and how he showed me the sport. Just the other day he mentioned that.
> Of those two what do you think he thinks of those two things now?
> That they're gone and will never come back.
> When he looks back on your marriage what do you think he will say about it?
> Great team. Terrible ending
> How did you feel about yourself in relationship to him?'
> Not as good. He has qualities that I don't that I consider to be "better"
> Was there ever a time where you felt you belonged together and you were his, or a part of him?
> Since the beginning, I feel like we are part of one whole and that we compliment each other
> What do you think of that now?
> I think perhaps a lot of the differences that brought us closer, became friction points.
> When you are gone and out of his life (whether now or years from now) how do you think he will remember you?
> I'd like to think he would be able to remember me as the great partner he had in me. The supportive friend that would give him the trust he courage needed to make the big moves that we felt were the right ones.
> What would he say about love?
> I think he sees it a lot the same as I do. It's about partnership and companionship in the end.
> How do you think this will effect his relationships going forward?
> I think he, at least at the beginning, will keephttp://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/editor/color.gif people at a safe distance.
> How do you think it will effect yours?
> I'll have to make an effort to guard myself and put boundaries where they are needed. Until I'm comfortable in my abilities, I may overdo it.
> How do you think it will effect his relationship with women?
> He won't allow anyone in, he will be constantly thinking of what this woman is trying to get from him
> How will this effect your relationship with men?
> I'll feel ashamed to bring up my previous affair and will try to avoid getting too involved because of it.
> How do you think your life will be going forward?
> It all depends on how he and I end this. But either way, it will be difficult
> How do you think his life will be going forward?
> He will thrive in his career, that's his safe space. Again, it all depends on the outcome of our marriage
> How do you think you will be remembered?
> by him? like a lying *****
> How do you want to be remembered?
> like a good person that has flaws and she allowed them to become actions. But overall, someone who loved and admired him.
> 
> I want you to try really hard and think about how he would answer these questions. One of the things I notice about people who cheat and/or have just be caught cheating is they don't really sit and try to put themselves in spouses shoes. Or at least it takes a long time to get there. But really I think that is the only way you are going to get what you did. It's needed. There is always a lot of short term thinking, but what is always missing is long term. I am trying to ask questions that make you think that way.


----------



## justlost891

sokillme said:


> Good, stick with it. Now answer my questions.


dude you gave me a million..


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> dude you gave me a million..


You haven't been to counseling yet. Got to get started some time.


----------



## sokillme

I am not trying to be hard on you, but you keep calling yourself his partner, and you were a team. But you abandoned the team and then lied to him though a big part of that. So what kind of team did you really have? 

Were your actions those of a teammate?

Why would he think of you as a teammate when you betrayed him so badly?


----------



## justlost891

sokillme said:


> I am not trying to be hard on you, but you keep calling yourself his partner, and you were a team. But you abandoned the team and then lied to him though a big part of that. So what kind of team did you really have?
> 
> Were your actions those of a teammate?


clearly not


----------



## sokillme

You are not trying to stay together with him because as you say.

I'll feel ashamed to bring up my previous affair and will try to avoid getting too involved because of it.


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> clearly not


So clearly there is a disconnect right? I mean you thought and still now think of yourself one way but your actions were another entirely. Why do you think that is? Do you see even here you are kind of doing that? This is a place to work on. You need to see this for what it is in the harsh light of reality. It will enable you to see how he sees it too.


----------



## TAMAT

JustLost,

You are doing everything right as far as trying to make amends for your affair, so you have nothing to hide.

You mentioned you would be reluctant to tell any future SOs that you cheated, I would ask you to reconsider as one lie leads to another and to another until it becomes an avalanche. This is exactly how affairs start, talking becomes intimate talking, becomes complaining about spouses, becomes lunch every week, then every day, then.......

You don't have to tell for casual dating but a serious relationship should be base on trust. Think radical honesty.

Read the book "his needs her needs" if you can.

Tamat


----------



## ABHale

Justlost I don’t think you know what love is. Not trying to be mean but you don’t. 

I was deployed for a year at one point then off and on when I was in the service. My wife never strayed. Mind you this was back in the late 80’s early 90’s. Love hurts when separated and grows stronger. It doesn’t look for someone else during times of separation. 

Do you feel the pain now? If so you might have found the truth of what you have with your husband. It just might be to late.


----------



## alte Dame

It sounds like you're a compartmentalizer - you were great partners and teammates....and you had a boyfriend. 

This is not safe for him. You have to work on yourself in IC to understand the conflicting desires and behaviors that you tried to keep in separate compartments. If your two worlds don't touch, then there is no cognitive dissonance.


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## Marc878

The one thing you do have going for you is he hasn't filed or moved out yet.

So there appears to be some hesitation on his part. 

Good luck


----------



## SA2017

justlost891 said:


> Hi -
> I am currently trying to find counseling for myself, this is something I used to have several years back and now I realize I shouldn't have stopped. Clearly I need to work on some deeper things than the ones that originally brought me there.
> I've never suggested counseling to my husband, I'm afraid he may see it as me insinuating he has some responsibility on this matter.
> Lastly, he mentioned since the beginning that he wants to divorce. Our goal at the moment is to separate our finances to make it an easier process from a legal stand point. He hasn't mentioned much in the last days, he's been avoiding me for the most part.


so you don't get any responses on your notes and letters that you left him?


----------



## sokillme

So I see you posted on reddit -- brave. :surprise:

TAM should go over there and see how it's done. And they call us harsh. 

I'm sorry but in my experience Reddit/Relationships has always been the best when it comes to this. It's like a stiff espresso for affairs on a sleepy morning. 

@justlost891 unfortunately I don't think anyone can give you the advice you are looking for. There is nothing you can do at this point. The ball is completely in your husbands court and at least for now it seems he is detaching from you. This would have been our advice to him by the way. Detach so he can make a logical decision, not an emotional one. 

The best thing you can do is make the choice to make yourself a better choice for him or someone else if that is what it comes to. Which means reading those books and getting IC. But honestly in this case there may just be too much damage done. Relationships are precious but also fragile. Sometimes you just break them beyond repair. 

That doesn't mean you can never have another one or a good life or marriage one day. But again this is also another reason to fix yourself so you don't make the same mistakes, and also so that when you tell the new person that your marriage ended because you had an affair, you can then say here is all the steps I took to make sure I will never make that mistake again.

Got another question for you.

Think of these two men, of the two which one has brought more value to your life?

How about before you got caught?


----------



## RandomDude

sokillme said:


> @justlost891 unfortunately I don't think anyone can give you the advice you are looking for. There is nothing you can do at this point. The ball is completely in your husbands court and at least for now it seems he is detaching from you. *This would have been our advice to him by the way.* Detach so he can make a logical decision, not an emotional one.


Damn ****ing right.


----------



## justlost891

@sokillme. No i didn’t post on reddit. I don’t know what you’re talking about but I’ll have to check out that sub. Out of the two men, my husband had of course brought more value to my life.
It f***ing sucks. I understand what you say more and more. 
Sorry I’m using a mobile and can’t figure out the settings on here to properly quote.


----------



## frusdil

You had a long term affair OP. A one night stand *may* be possible to overcome (not sure I could though), but more than once becomes a pattern. That is not easy to come back from. It becomes not just about sex but deceit on a much deeper level - you lie to your partner constantly...lie upon lie upon lie. Each lie chipping away at the trust between you and your spouse. The damage is far greater.


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> @sokillme. No i didn’t post on reddit. I don’t know what you’re talking about but I’ll have to check out that sub. Out of the two men, my husband had of course brought more value to my life.
> It f***ing sucks. I understand what you say more and more.
> Sorry I’m using a mobile and can’t figure out the settings on here to properly quote.


Unfortunately I think it's going to get harder for you as you really start to understand. I also think as time goes on it will put what you have done and who you gave up and for what into prospective. That is going to make this harder even still. You kind of sabotaged a big part of your life in the process. But if you are lucky the worst thing will be that you did it to a good man for a pretty ****ty one. I say if your lucky because really that is how any decent person would think. The guy you cheated with wasn't your friend and was the enemy of your husband and even you, he helped and encouraged you destroy yours life and your husband's life. Now it's all your fault, but doesn't make what he did to your husband any less wrong. He is garbage. But your husband sounds like a good one. Maybe a little to concerned with his career for you but still a good one. There is not a lot of them out there. They need to be protected not taken advantage of. 

Anyway not sure what you can do about the reddit thing if you didn't post it, then someone here copied it there. Not sure why. Some folks there though harsh gave some good advice. That is just weird though.


----------



## RandomDude

frusdil said:


> You had a long term affair OP. A one night stand *may* be possible to overcome (not sure I could though), but more than once becomes a pattern. That is not easy to come back from. It becomes not just about sex but deceit on a much deeper level - you lie to your partner constantly...lie upon lie upon lie. Each lie chipping away at the trust between you and your spouse. The damage is far greater.


Agreed, and if OP and her husband reconcile all I would feel is pity for the husband.

Even if by some miracle that the trust is regained at most 50% (It will never be 100% again, not even close), he sounds like he deserves better.

Quite frankly I think this thread is very selfish. @justlost891 Let him go and find a new relationship with a new solid foundation of trust. He needs to get you out of his life. Period.


----------



## Taxman

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your insight and recommendations. I suspect he has been working on the revenge if you know what I mean.


And how does that make you feel?


----------



## drifting on

justlost891 said:


> Thank you for your comments and providing me with a critical eye to what I've said. It could very well be that I didn't have boundaries to begin with. Someone else also said that perhaps I crave compliments, I never saw it that way but the more I think about it, it makes sense.
> I'm glad to know you and your wife are being able to continue to work on your relationship and I too wish you the best.






You quoted part of my response, but you’ve still deflected from what bandit asked you. In a way I’ve called you out on that, yet you are still deflecting away from answering. @sokillme has asked you some intense questions, to make you think and see what your actions have done, bandits questions of the voices inside you are doing the same. By avoiding what bandit asked is beginning to show the selfishness of your actions. I’m thinking those voices inside you were screaming, yet you chose to ignore and push away to get what you felt was what you needed. 

When it comes to a wayward spouse I’m not one that will lead you to what you currently desire. That would be or anyone else doing the work that you need to do. Instead I have always gently guided one in the direction to move so they can learn what they need to do. If your husband were here, I would advise him to do as he is doing, because you are not remorseful. You are regretful, for what you may have lost, for your actions, for your deception, but that is not remorse. Remorse is the way to get your husband to notice you, my wife was remorseful, I noticed, and ultimately that remorse led to her getting the gift of reconciliation. I should also tell you that she got that gift after I decided WHAT WAS BEST FOR ME. Just like your husband, I realized I had no marriage as it died when she had sex with OM. Justlost, my story is far worse then yours, not that that matters, but my wife got the gift of reconciliation and I consider you to be a good candidate also. 

All the answers to your situation are in you, are you strong enough to find those answers and learn? Are you strong enough to self reflect? That is how you find the answers, then learn to become a better person. This will also lead you to remorse, not regret, for what your actions caused. You also need individual therapy to help you self reflect very deep within yourself. It would be very easy for me to list and tell you the actions my wife took, but I can’t get past the feeling that I would be enabling you if I did. Sort of like allowing you to cheat on a test, you score well but haven’t learned. 

For right now I will tell you this, after your husband discovered the affair, did you lie?
Were you currently working with OM?
Did you continue to work with OM? 
Did you offer to quit that job? 
Are you still working with OM? Same company? 
Are you making your husband feel safe, currently? 
Have you told your parents or his?
Did any friends know? Are they currently still friends of yours?
Had your husband husband cheated, what would you expect from him?

Placing yourself in the betrayeds shoes can help you greatly. You still won’t know how he feels completely, but it will give you insight into the answers that are deep within you. Any questions you have I’ll try to answer if you think I can help you. My goal is to see you succeed, not to be further destroyed, not to be beaten up, but for you to see the value you have. To help give you strength in recognizing your flaws, correcting them, setting boundaries that are conclusive with marriage. Basically helping you to become a safe partner that just maybe your husband will notice again. I will tell you this, my wife moved mountains, she was very determined and focused, her remorse was very visible to me. My wife showed me something, that she wanted this marriage, and above all, she sowed that she wanted me as her spouse in that marriage. 

My wife and I have been through some very dark and trying times, some alone some together, and today we walk together.


----------



## TheBohannons

We dont understand your confusion as to why you had sex with another man and what you should do.

Let's recap. When the opportunity presented itself, you shot your husband and went to another. He got suspicious, so you backburned the affair. The opportunity presented itself again, and you took it, shooting your husband in the heart again. Even as your relationship lie in peril, the OM reached out with a tale of woe. And you took it again. Another shot to your husbands heart. Now that you are caught and your marriage and husband is lying on the ground, bleeding out, you sit there bewildered, with the gun in your hand, asking what should i do?

Really?

Quite honestly I don't think you are lost at all. You are right where you should be. About to be divorced. When one reads your responses, the only love you have for your husband, is that of a loyal dog. A faithful companion and partner. Even when asked do you love him, your response was "I guess not". The fact that you have no desire to be intimate with him speaks volumes. Fake love.

Your husband is starting to realize exactly what he meant to you. The love that requires a deep intimacy never existed with you. You may have regret for your actions, but remorse? Not even close.

The foundation that your marriage was built on, was not sound. Another man came along and he huffed and puffed and blew your house down. Leave it that way. Deep down you know you never loved him as the forever, so do the decent thing and let him find a woman who will love him as a man. Not just a "very good partner". I would never marry a woman who described her love for me the way you do. And vice versa for the beautiful woman sitting next to me.

Your desire to give to your husband does not exist. There is nothing there to recover. Do not even try.

I guess that gives you "something to think about". Or not.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

With kids, there might be something worth saving. You can't be purely selfish in those cases, but in cases without children you should be completely selfish. R sucks, people turn into part time detectives for the remainder of their lives, I don't see the point, unless there is a higher reason. Infidelity is just too traumatic to a relationship to ever fully recover. There are plenty of people in R, especially men, who just have lost all respect for their WW's but feel its a sunk cost by now and they just stay out of convenience. Nobody should live like that. Sounds like OP and Husband are still relatively young, no need to live like a martyr.


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## Doc Who

Justlost,

My advice is just to move on. Sure you feel a little bad now for hurting him, but you both know you are just clinging to the marriage because you got caught and you don't want to lose what you had. You hate the rejection from the man that gave you himself and his love. But trust me, you'll get past it. You've managed to put him in a box for many many years and you will get back to that place again. You'll hate losing and being rejected by him, but it is nothing more than that.

You'll be fine. You've shown you can get past your husband in a New York minute.

However, he will have to live with the fact that the person he thought was going to be his life is, well, you. But with therapy, he will regain his strength and one day will be able to file you under "really, really bad mistake" and hopefully learn from his mistake and find real love.


----------



## kekkek

TheBohannons said:


> We dont umderstand your confusion as to why you had sex with another man and what you should do.
> 
> Let's recap. When the opportunity presented itself, you shot your husband and went to another. He got suspicious, so you backburned the affair. The opportunity presented itself again, and you took it, shooting your husband in the heart again. Even as your relationship lie in peril, the OM reached out with a tale of woe. And you took it again. Another shot to your husbands heart. Now that you are caught and your marriage and husband is lying on the ground, bleeding out, you sit there bewildered, with the gun in your hand, asking what should i do?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Quite honestly I don't think you are lost at all. You are right where you should be. About to be divorced. When one reads your responses, the only love you have for your husband, is that of a loyal dog. A faithful companion and partner. Even when asked do you love him, your response was "I guess not". The fact that you have no desire to be intimate with him speaks volumes. Fake love.
> 
> Your husband is starting to realize exactly what he meant to you. The love that requires a deep intimacy never existed with you. You may have regret for your actions, but remorse? Not even close.
> 
> The foundation that your marriage was built on, was not sound. Another man came along and he huffed and puffed and blew your house down. Leave it that way. *Deep down you know you never loved him as the forever, so do the decent thing and let him find a woman who will love him as a man. Not just a "very good partner". I would never marry a woman who described her love for me the way you do. * And vice versa for the beautiful woman sitting next to me.
> 
> Your desire to give to your husband does not exist. There is nothing there to recover. Do not even try.
> 
> I guess that gives you "something to think about". Or not.


This sums it up perfectly.


----------



## Imajerk17

Well OP, I sort of commented on this before, but I probably should have said a bit more on this. It just seems bizarre as hell to me that, after all this time, a couple of years, you still hardly have any idea of what your WHYs were. Other than "I was selfish" or "I was stupid".

I mean, I think it is absolute human nature that when we do something we really regret, something that devastates a loved one, something we think is beneath us, we'd replay the decisions over and over in our heads, trying to grasp some idea of what the hell was it that we were thinking. That never occurred to you?

I would understand if you DO have some ideas of what your WHYs were but are reluctant to share them on here--e.g., you'd be slammed. But to not have any private ideas as to why that you've already shared with a counselor, after all this time, does seem strange to me. It makes me question how hard you have really tried at recovery. More to the point, I am sure your husband has thought the same thing.


----------



## Graywolf2

justlost891 said:


> Out of the two men, my husband had of course brought more value to my life.


I’m sure your husband would agree with the above statement and that’s the problem. Some men (especially nice guys) feel that they earn sex with good behavior. They’re all in, until death do we part, in sickness and in health, etc.

When their wife gives it away for free then there must have been something about the OM that was superior to the husband. It’s like waiting in line to get in a popular club and then a celebrity shows up and gets right in.

Your husband gave you all the boring husband stuff and the OM gave you excitement. You’re supposed to have sex with your husband but you risked everything to have sex with the OM. Who does your husband think you would rather have sex with?

What to do now? The best I can come up with is that you rejected your husband so now give him a chance to reject you. Tell him how you screwed up and you will always regret it. That part of the regret is selfish because you know that he will make someone else a great husband.

Go ahead with the divorce. Make it clear that you will not be dating anyone else. Let him know that if he ever changes his mind you will be very open to dating him. Then give him space.


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## j187santiago

You care about him now 
Cause you are losing him 
He hates you , 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

Wow. Well I guess anything I would have to inject is pretty much moot with all this negativity raining down. 

OP I’m glad you came back. I hope the masses here haven’t scared you off.


----------



## sokillme

Imajerk17 said:


> Well OP, I sort of commented on this before, but I probably should have said a bit more on this. It just seems bizarre as hell to me that, after all this time, a couple of years, you still hardly have any idea of what your WHYs were. Other than "I was selfish" or "I was stupid".
> 
> I mean, I think it is absolute human nature that when we do something we really regret, something that devastates a loved one, something we think is beneath us, we'd replay the decisions over and over in our heads, trying to grasp some idea of what the hell was it that we were thinking. That never occurred to you?
> 
> I would understand if you DO have some ideas of what your WHYs were but are reluctant to share them on here--e.g., you'd be slammed. But to not have any private ideas as to why that you've already shared with a counselor, after all this time, does seem strange to me. It makes me question how hard you have really tried at recovery. More to the point, I am sure your husband has thought the same thing.


NO cheater thinks like this. It's how they can do it in the first place.


----------



## sokillme

bandit.45 said:


> Wow. Well I guess anything I would have to inject is pretty much moot with all this negativity raining down.
> 
> OP I’m glad you came back. I hope the masses here haven’t scared you off.


Read the responses on here if you think we are raining down negativity. If anything we have been pretty measured. What she did would be a death sentence to 99% of all marriages and was a really awful thing to do to a person. I mean what are we supposed to say? Everything will work out how you want in the end??


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## sokillme

Graywolf2 said:


> I’m sure your husband would agree with the above statement and that’s the problem. Some men (especially nice guys) feel that they earn sex with good behavior. They’re all in, until death do we part, in sickness and in health, etc.
> 
> When their wife gives it away for free then there must have been something about the OM that was superior to the husband. It’s like waiting in line to get in a popular club and then a celebrity shows up and gets right in.
> 
> Your husband gave you all the boring husband stuff and the OM gave you excitement. You’re supposed to have sex with your husband but you risked everything to have sex with the OM. Who does your husband thing you would rather have sex with.


Well even if he sucked as a husband she shouldn't have been giving it away to anyone else. I mean nice guy or not in this case he is not wrong.


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## sokillme

@justlost891 how are you doing today?


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## bandit.45

sokillme said:


> Read the responses on here if you think we are raining down negativity. If anything we have been pretty measured. What she did would be a death sentence to 99% of all marriages and was a really awful thing to do to a person. I mean what are we supposed to say? Everything will work out how you want in the end??


No what I have read for the last two days is most of you telling her what she did and what’s going to happen. 

She knows what she did. She knows what’s going to happen She knows her marriage is most likely toast.

I would like to see us take the focus off the things she cannot control ( husband and date of the marriage) and instead help her dig to find why she made the poor choices she did and how not to make those choices again. 

That’s all.


----------



## sokillme

bandit.45 said:


> No what I have read for the last two days is most of you telling her what she did and what’s going to happen.
> 
> She knows what she did. She knows what’s going to happen She knows her marriage is most likely toast.
> 
> I would like to see us take the focus off the things she cannot control ( husband and date of the marriage) and instead help her dig to find why she made the poor choices she did and how not to make those choices again.
> 
> That’s all.


Don't agree. Most WS have not idea the profound nature of what they do, or even the consequences at least for their BS. It's part of why they can do it. I do agree she needs to focus on why and that is part of why I tried to ask the questions to try to flesh out her thinking but as far as knowing what she did really? In the way that she will need to to really be motivated to change her entire way of thinking. She is not even close yet. They never are.


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## [email protected]

Just, you keep asking how you can work to fix this, and help your H. Sorry to say I think you are just arranging the deck chairs. You can best help him by getting out of his life.


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## j187santiago

Bad wife

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

sokillme said:


> Don't agree. Most WS have not idea the profound nature of what they do, or even the consequences at least for their BS. It's part of why they can do it. I do agree she needs to focus on why and that is part of why I tried to ask the questions to try to flesh out her thinking but as far as knowing what she did really? In the way that she will need to to really be motivated to change her entire way of thinking. She is not even close yet. They never are.


Let’s agree that we disagree.


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## drifting on

Justlost

I’m going to be quite frank here, posters have argued that I chose reconciliation, I’ve been asked some very difficult questions. At times my explanations have come under fire so to speak, other times respected and/or accepted. Truth is, I did what is best for me, then what is best for my kids. I didn’t place my spouse or marriage in front of those two items, in fact I had to put myself before the kids. I had to heal, I had to get healthy, or else I would have had nothing. Now, during this I came to a very bad place, for thirteen months the only answer I could see clearly was death, my death. During that thirteen months I chose to end my life, that attempt failed, my first thought was I can’t even do this right. 

As time went on I picked myself up, I did very hard work to get healthy again. I’m now four years in to reconciliation, and it’s been rough at times, but we rebuilt our marriage. We rebuilt ourselves as people, parents, and found a path we can be effective as spouses. It’s not easy, it’s difficult at best, I credit TAM for helping me to make it. In fact two posters who have helped me have been advising you on your thread. I respect both of these posters very much, both will make you think deeply. @sokillme and @bandit.45 are who I’m referring too. Please read their posts, they both have great wisdom to share with you. 

As for those telling you to let your husband go, I think you have, you are honoring his request of having space. I truly understand your position, I saw my wife go through this when I wasn’t very active in the relationship. Your husband needs this time, he needs to sort out his head so he can make the best decision for him. I know you understand this, respected this, I can only tell you to remain patient. In the meantime work on yourself, find answers that you need to know about yourself, find your way to be healthy once again. 

I agree with bandit that many of the posts are to just divorce. In ways I find that to be sad, in other ways I find it to be the correct choice. I support what the OP wants, and in your case it’s reconciliation. Only you have to wait to see what it is your husband decides. It is his choice at the moment. Work on you, that is the best advice I can give you at this time. When a wayward spouse first comes here, you will go through some very difficult posts, I hope that you have prepared yourself for this.


----------



## Windwalker

bandit.45 said:


> No what I have read for the last two days is most of you telling her what she did and what’s going to happen.
> 
> She knows what she did. She knows what’s going to happen She knows her marriage is most likely toast.
> 
> I would like to see us take the focus off the things she cannot control ( husband and date of the marriage) and instead help her dig to find why she made the poor choices she did and how not to make those choices again.
> 
> That’s all.


That's would take deep introspection on the OP's part and as much as any of us would like to help her, that is something she must do on her own. She must look deep and find the true answers inside herself. We both know that requires looking at who you truly are in the dark depths of your being. 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. The best you will ever do is drown them in your attempts.


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## bandit.45

Windwalker said:


> That's would take deep introspection on the OP's part and as much as any of us would like to help her, that is something she much do on her own. She must look deep and find the true answers inside herself. We both know that requires looking at who you truly are in the dark depths of your being.
> 
> You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. The best you will ever do is drown them in your attempts.


Very poetic.


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## Wazza

OP, I am a betrayed spouse who reconciled, so my perspective might be a bit different. I have a few initial suggestions for you. 

The first is, you need to think about trust, and ask yourself how to rebuild it. I’m not trying to beat you up, but I am trying to make sure you know, from where I sit, with every key decision, you have damaged trust. You had the affair, you continued it, and you lied about it. I can’t see a point where you came clean and gave your husband more than he already knew. Ask yourself, from where he sits, what reason does he have to trust you? I urge you to be absolutely truthful with your husband. I promise you, the whitest is white lies, the smallest of significant omissions, is like setting off a bomb in your situation. You lie to hide a nice surprise, say an amazing birthday gift, from him and all he will see is “she lied again”. 

The second is, be honest with yourself about what you want. Are you here because you want to help your husband, or here because you want to find a way to save your marriage for selfish reasons? It’s ok to want to save your marriage, but better to be honest if that’s it. And, to be really honest, you have to think about whether it is worth saving. Even if your husband agrees to try, what you have done will resonate and hurt for years, and you will never get back to what you had before. Is it better to walk away?

The third is, see the rage that is coming as an opportunity. It will come, and it will be absolutely brutal. (I would worry more if it isn’t). But it is your husband processing things, and it will be wildly inconsistent. I’m not going to try and explain how it feels, because I can’t. I can say for me it was the worst pain I have ever experienced, and it made me do things that were totally out of character. But my wife responded by trying to hose it down, and that was a mistake. Instead, be honest, and open. Maybe, just maybe, he can see you as someone he could trust one day. 

Thinking of you as you go through this.


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## Wazza

bandit.45 said:


> No what I have read for the last two days is most of you telling her what she did and what’s going to happen.
> 
> She knows what she did. She knows what’s going to happen She knows her marriage is most likely toast.
> 
> I would like to see us take the focus off the things she cannot control ( husband and date of the marriage) and instead help her dig to find why she made the poor choices she did and how not to make those choices again.
> 
> That’s all.


This is a really good post.


----------



## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> No what I have read for the last two days is most of you telling her what she did and what’s going to happen.
> 
> She knows what she did. She knows what’s going to happen She knows her marriage is most likely toast.
> 
> I would like to see us take the focus off the things she cannot control ( husband and date of the marriage) and instead help her dig to find why she made the poor choices she did and how not to make those choices again.
> 
> That’s all.


This.

She is experiencing (and will continue to experience) consequences due to her actions. 

The best thing that we, as an online forum (which was sought for help by the OP) can do, is prep her for moving forward by showing her how to be a safe partner again.

This really starts with learning how to love herself.

OP, in one of Sokillme's laundry list of questions, you said you felt like you didn't think you deserved such a good husband, or something to that effect.

This is where you need to start with counseling. If you can't properly love yourself, you can't properly love another. 

And folks...if the best you have to offer the OP is "you cheated, you suck", or some variation of such, then find a new thread in which to "help".


----------



## sokillme

farsidejunky said:


> This.
> 
> She is experiencing (and will continue to experience) consequences due to her actions.
> 
> The best thing that we, as an online forum (which was sought for help by the OP) can do, is prep her for moving forward by showing her how to be a safe partner again.
> 
> This really starts with learning how to love herself.
> 
> OP, in one of Sokillme's laundry list of questions, you said you felt like you didn't think you deserved such a good husband, or something to that effect.
> 
> This is where you need to start with counseling. If you can't properly love yourself, you can't properly love another.
> 
> And folks...if the best you have to offer the OP is "you cheated, you suck", or some variation of such, then find a new thread in which to "help".



Personally I think it is more important that she learns how to treat others better and have better boundaries. Loving herself can wait. She needs to have a healthy foundation to love herself which should be built much more on how she treats others. Seems to me half the time people cheat it's because the have an unhealthy love for themselves at the expense of everyone else. 

Now is not the time to put the focus on feeling good about herself but really focus on what her actions have caused and who she is by those actions. She shouldn't love that person because that person hasn't earned that love. She need to change and be a better person who is worthy of love. She needs to create a foundation of actions. That foundation comes from understanding right from wrong and taking pride and doing right. Then she will have earned the right to love herself, it will make her a safe partner and maybe even earn her a second chance with her husband. 

I think it's a very good thing she feels terrible, she did a terrible thing. That's healthy and that means she may just change. Now is the time for addressing the wrong she has done and making an effort to change. But she need to really get what she did so she can get why it was so wrong. I think that is what a lot of the posters are trying to show her. If she gets it then maybe she will not have any desire to do it again. It can't just be, well I won't do it because of the consequences because the next time the consequences might not be as bad, for instance if she was never caught would that make what she did any less wrong. 

Lots of growth comes through pain.


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## sokillme

@justlost891 hope you haven't left us. How are you doing, has your husband talked to you yet?


----------



## Decorum

QUOTE=bandit.45;19385009]No what I have read for the last two days is most of you telling her what she did and what’s going to happen. 

She knows what she did. She knows what’s going to happen She knows her marriage is most likely toast.

I would like to see us take the focus off the things she cannot control ( husband and date of the marriage) and instead help her dig to find why she made the poor choices she did and how not to make those choices again. That’s all.[/QUOTE]

Really?

What say you @sokillme ?


sokillme said:


> If anything we have been pretty measured. What she did would be a death sentence to 99% of all marriages and was a really awful thing to do to a person. I mean what are we supposed to say? Everything will work out how you want in the end??


Well, why don't we ask JustLost?

Actually no need, she already said.



justlost891 said:


> @sokillme.
> It f***ing sucks. I understand what you say more and more.


JustLost I am encouraged by the 
epiphanies of your self-reflection.

Self-reflection which results in undestanding, and personel revelations, are spiritual activites that can profoundly change us through objectivity, remorse, and taking responsibility.

It's your only hope of winning your husband's respect back, and that is what you are fighting for.

It's the starting point for love and trust.

More importantly this is the only path to growing as a person, and whatever the outcome, this needs to be a part of it.

I really wish you well!


----------



## justlost891

Hello everyone. I wanted to let you know that I was finally able to speak in person with my husband yesterday, after over a week of no contact. He is still very much decided on divorcing, which I respect. I was a freaking mess, he was his usual cool and collected self. He was kind to me and said that he wanted to make sure I was taking care of myself (I’ve been dealing with depression for a long time and have been avoiding professional help because I don’t want to be given any drugs). I expressed again how sorry I am for what I did and that if anything I wanted to at least be able to work hard to regain his trust. It is important that at least I can live up to him and be there for what he needs, also for him to be comfortable leaning on me if he ever needs anything. All he said is that he doesn’t know what future may hold but that he knows we will both be able to move forward and regain our lives (separately of course). He also reminded me we both felt like strangers sharing a bed and that though it hurts it had to be this way, we were heading in this direction regardless. I received the two books I ordered today so I have a lot of homework to do, but I want to thank all of you who have shared your experiences and advice so far. I will keep you guys updated, but please understand if i don’t post as often (I’m reading).


----------



## Marc878

Good update at least it's amicable. Your H is correct. You're both young and will be fine long term.

Wiser of course. You should work on yourself for you now. 

Good luck


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> Hello everyone. I wanted to let you know that I was finally able to speak in person with my husband yesterday, after over a week of no contact. He is still very much decided on divorcing, which I respect. I was a freaking mess, he was his usual cool and collected self. He was kind to me and said that he wanted to make sure I was taking care of myself (I’ve been dealing with depression for a long time and have been avoiding professional help because I don’t want to be given any drugs). I expressed again how sorry I am for what I did and that if anything I wanted to at least be able to work hard to regain his trust. It is important that at least I can live up to him and be there for what he needs, also for him to be comfortable leaning on me if he ever needs anything. All he said is that he doesn’t know what future may hold but that he knows we will both be able to move forward and regain our lives (separately of course). He also reminded me we both felt like strangers sharing a bed and that though it hurts it had to be this way, we were heading in this direction regardless. I received the two books I ordered today so I have a lot of homework to do, but I want to thank all of you who have shared your experiences and advice so far. I will keep you guys updated, but please understand if i don’t post as often (I’m reading).


This is a good update. Maybe it's just too much for him, regardless your life is NOT over.


----------



## jsmart

It sounds like he's detaching to protect his heart from further damage. Basically he's gone 180 on you. Which what we always advise a betrayed to do, so they can detach and avoid being needy.

I advise you to work on your issues that caused you to betray your husband in IC. Spend sometime mourning the death of your marriage and learning to be an independent woman that can stand by herself. 

Even though, it's likely that he will go forward with the D, that doesn't mean you don't have a chance. Your husband is broken and shielding his heart from you but I'd bet my next month's mortgage that he is still in love with you. 

He may just need sometime to get out there and "even the scales" but if you give him sometime, he may come back to you. I've read of 2 WWs who were able to win their BHs back after divorce. Both wives remained single WITHOUT dating, while their exBH regained their sense of manhood. Both are remarried and have their families intact.


----------



## Pepe1970

justlost891 said:


> you all can tear me apart so I can put myself together again, that's what I'm here for. But I will not take cheap insults.


I've just said I admire you. How would that be an insult??

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Pepe1970

justlost891 said:


> Thank you Tamat. I appreciate criticism and I believe things can be explained in a different way. Yes, I'm hoping you can all provide me with more insight into what my husband is going through, but he has no problem letting me know what graphic images come to his mind, believe me.


Yep, been there too

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Hello everyone. I wanted to let you know that I was finally able to speak in person with my husband yesterday, after over a week of no contact. He is still very much decided on divorcing, which I respect. I was a freaking mess, he was his usual cool and collected self. He was kind to me and said that he wanted to make sure I was taking care of myself (I’ve been dealing with depression for a long time and have been avoiding professional help because I don’t want to be given any drugs). I expressed again how sorry I am for what I did and that if anything I wanted to at least be able to work hard to regain his trust. It is important that at least I can live up to him and be there for what he needs, also for him to be comfortable leaning on me if he ever needs anything. All he said is that he doesn’t know what future may hold but that he knows we will both be able to move forward and regain our lives (separately of course). *He also reminded me we both felt like strangers sharing a bed and that though it hurts it had to be this way, we were heading in this direction regardless.* I received the two books I ordered today so I have a lot of homework to do, but I want to thank all of you who have shared your experiences and advice so far. I will keep you guys updated, but please understand if i don’t post as often (I’m reading).


I wouldn't blame you if you did not want to hang around after the pummeling you've received. Just remember that reading books and web forums alone will not help your issues. You have to actively work on yourself by setting goals and timelines for growth. I recommend you find a really good counselor, one who will hold your feet to the fire and call you on your crap, and who will give you homework to do each week. Find a good one who wants to actually help you, not pad your ego for money. 

The part of your paragraph I bolded above is a demonstration of what happens to a marriage when one partner moves away. It sounds like to me that by the time your husband moved to the other city the two of you had already allowed the relationship to starve to death. A marriage relationship needs constant feeding and attention. I don't understand why your husband would move to another city and leave you behind for a job. If the two of you had kids and you were out of work and he was forced to do so then I could understand it. But to just move without you? That's pretty indicative of a couple who don't care much about their relationship. It's not an excuse for your cheating, but still it shows a definite lack of active love between you two.

Apparently you put your careers at the forefront of the marriage and that just never works out. You are either married or you're not, and in your case you had detached from your husband to the point where you really didn't even feel like his wife anymore. You were ripe for an affair. Now you just need to work on those boundaries you allowed to fall which put the nail in the coffin of an already dying marriage. Your husband obviously wants out. Maybe he wanted out for a long time and you provided him the perfect excuse to bail. Nevertheless, what you did was wrong and you need to correct it. 

Your BH doesn't sound like he needs to be married. He sounds like a guy who's married to his career and who is not really ready to settle down and be a husband to any woman. He needs to figure out what the hell he wants out of life. You need to figure out why you have sh*t for boundaries.


----------



## Pepe1970

justlost891 said:


> Thank you Colin for your insight. If I may point out to the fact that at the moment of the discovery, I was only speaking with OM because of his illness. Of course, it doesn't make it any better in the eyes of my husband, but the affair was long over.
> I didn't mean to sound condescending, that is just the way I feel


Ok, here's when I pull my sleeves up to work.
This is where many of our women play naive.
Your affair was long finished when the OM contacted you again with some news of a cancer he has/had and used that as an excuse to contact you, so you feel sorry for what he's going through and get back to him again.
My wife told me about her affair a year after they "broke up".
After a year OM contacted her with some "my life is in ruins, devastated and suffering since you left me" excuse to win her over by using her sorry feelings for him and it seems this guy is doing the same to you.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## justlost891

I need your advice. I was expecting my husband to reach out outside our marriage and try and “even the score”. I’m not going into much detail, but our modern ways have allowed me to understand that he is constantly in contact with this woman and i don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, i know I created this situation, but on the other hand I want to rip her head out. I have her phone number. Please help me


----------



## justlost891

justlost891 said:


> I need your advice. I was expecting my husband to reach out outside our marriage and try and “even the score”. I’m not going into much detail, but our modern ways have allowed me to understand that he is constantly in contact with this woman and i don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, i know I created this situation, but on the other hand I want to rip her head out. I have her phone number. Please help me


Also, I have now signed up for health insurance through my new job and will be selecting a therapist to work with


----------



## justlost891

Pepe1970 said:


> justlost891 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you all can tear me apart so I can put myself together again, that's what I'm here for. But I will not take cheap insults.
> 
> 
> 
> I've just said I admire you. How would that be an insult??
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I wasn’t talking about you, but other posters


----------



## justlost891

sokillme said:


> justlost891 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello everyone. I wanted to let you know that I was finally able to speak in person with my husband yesterday, after over a week of no contact. He is still very much decided on divorcing, which I respect. I was a freaking mess, he was his usual cool and collected self. He was kind to me and said that he wanted to make sure I was taking care of myself (I’ve been dealing with depression for a long time and have been avoiding professional help because I don’t want to be given any drugs). I expressed again how sorry I am for what I did and that if anything I wanted to at least be able to work hard to regain his trust. It is important that at least I can live up to him and be there for what he needs, also for him to be comfortable leaning on me if he ever needs anything. All he said is that he doesn’t know what future may hold but that he knows we will both be able to move forward and regain our lives (separately of course). He also reminded me we both felt like strangers sharing a bed and that though it hurts it had to be this way, we were heading in this direction regardless. I received the two books I ordered today so I have a lot of homework to do, but I want to thank all of you who have shared your experiences and advice so far. I will keep you guys updated, but please understand if i don’t post as often (I’m reading).
> 
> 
> 
> This is a good update. Maybe it's just too much for him, regardless your life is NOT over.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I truly must understand how to live by myself.


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> I need your advice. I was expecting my husband to reach out outside our marriage and try and “even the score”. I’m not going into much detail, but our modern ways have allowed me to understand that he is constantly in contact with this woman and i don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, i know I created this situation, but on the other hand I want to rip her head out. I have her phone number. Please help me


Well it's hypocritical since you opened your marriage, he has been living in an open marriage for years but you didn't tell him he was. Not saying what he is doing is right. When you take a sledgehammer to the foundations of your marriage you can't complain when it collapse. You have kind have shown him how you value loyalty in your marriage so he is returning the favor. Most likely it's not going to help your marriage though. Truthfully your husband has been pretty consistent he doesn't want your marriage anymore, bu then from his perspective he probably feels the same about you. I think this is just another example. 

What has he been saying to you? Have you told him you know? I wish I could say something to help you but you have no power here, you can't even ask him to stop out of loyalty. I think your post above is correct, you have to learn to live on your own. You have to continue to fix yourself. You have to make sure that you never do this again so that the next change you get with someone you don't blow it. I think you have to operate out of the assumption that what your husband has been telling you is true. He is done, he is starting to move on, though in a way that probably isn't going to help him in the long run. I'm sorry it's like a big train wreck isn't it. This is why you don't do it. The damage is really hard to fathom.


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## Wazza

justlost891 said:


> I need your advice. I was expecting my husband to reach out outside our marriage and try and “even the score”. I’m not going into much detail, but our modern ways have allowed me to understand that he is constantly in contact with this woman and i don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, i know I created this situation, but on the other hand I want to rip her head out. I have her phone number. Please help me


Why do you assume he is trying to even the score?


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## Kamstel

It seems to me that there are two ways of your STBXH is looking at this. One which is very bad for you, and one, which ironically, might be good for you and what you want.

1). The very bad one...
Him going out with another woman has nothing to do with you. This is just the next step in his life. A step away from his cheating wife (STBXW). He may be looking at this woman as a rebound, a quick and easy lay, or a woman that he feels he can be safe with, and potentially have a long term relationship with.

2). The ironically good one....
This may sound odd at first, but please think about it.
You admit that your marriage is over and all that’s left is the legal paperwork. And yes, this is 100% on you. You were the one that consciously decided to go outside of your marriage and give another man something which you vowed before your husband, family, friends, and God was going to be ONLY your husbands.
But if this is JUST a revenge affair, and he is just trying to get back at you, that means that he still has some feeling for you. Yes, him having a revenge affair will make any type of reconciliation more difficult, but at least there is a chance, which right now, the chance is ZERO!

I hope that makes sense.

I don’t believe you should say anything to him or her. If it is revenge, he will tell you, and then you BOTH need to decide on the next steps and ultimate goal. If it is NOT revenge, it is best to just let him go, and in your heart wish him and try to be happy that maybe he can find someone worthy of him and his love.

And above all, you are correct, ALL OF THIS is your doing and your fault


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## stro

This is one of those things you have to accept that you no longer have control over. It’s tough to watch but it’s happening. You only have control over YOU now. Focus on that and improving yourself in every way possible. Your husband is moving on. You should let him.


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## thummper

Did your husband ever read the two letters you left for him? Did he ever refer to any of their contents?


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## ABHale

I don’t knew w of anything except talking with your husband about what he is doing now. 

It is really up to him to stop. 

If he is unwilling to stop the only courses left open is separation and divorce or wait and see.


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## Taxman

It is apparent to me that at this point it appears that he has gotten revenge. Will that get this out of his system? I could not answer that, everyone is different. At this point he is likely proving his manhood to himself. Many men feel emasculated when their SO gives it away to someone else. He could also be having some schadenfreude at Justlost's expense, ensuring that she is terribly hurt by his actions. Frankly, given the short time sine dday, I would wager that he is thinking with his reptilian brain, and is seeking dominance, and retribution.


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## Lostinthought61

justlost891 said:


> I need your advice. I was expecting my husband to reach out outside our marriage and try and “even the score”. I’m not going into much detail, but our modern ways have allowed me to understand that he is constantly in contact with this woman and i don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, i know I created this situation, but on the other hand I want to rip her head out. I have her phone number. Please help me


I can imagine this is a tough pill to swallow, one in which you don't want to think about, but on some level you knew that he would move on, just not so quickly and again you don't know who she is to him yet, just maybe just a friend. The point being is that marriage is by his own admission is done, so in his mind he might have moved on. 
May i just a hail mary pass, and it can go either way here, and it will be gut wrenching, but if i were you i would tell him that if you and her need time to talk, and meet you are willing to not bother them....i am not asking you to placate the potential relationship between the two of them, i am asking you to becomes selfless for him. to demonstrate to him and yourself that you want him to heal even if your not part of that healing process. Telling those words, and just walking away may demonstrate to him how much you love him that you are willing to sit on the sideline. I can't guarantee this will work, but it may.


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## hoblob

Lostinthought61 said:


> I can imagine this is a tough pill to swallow, one in which you don't want to think about, but on some level you knew that he would move on, just not so quickly and again you don't know who she is to him yet, just maybe just a friend. The point being is that marriage is by his own admission is done, so in his mind he might have moved on.
> May i just a hail mary pass, and it can go either way here, and it will be gut wrenching, but if i were you i would tell him that if you and her need time to talk, and meet you are willing to not bother them....i am not asking you to placate the potential relationship between the two of them, i am asking you to becomes selfless for him. to demonstrate to him and yourself that you want him to heal even if your not part of that healing process. Telling those words, and just walking away may demonstrate to him how much you love him that you are willing to sit on the sideline. I can't guarantee this will work, but it may.


Yes. I completely agree with the above. Telling him that you messed up and that he is free to seek help and comfort is exactly how you show that you are selfless. You need to think of him and not yourself. I know that in your mind your affair stopped a long time ago. In his it didn't.


----------



## Yeswecan

justlost891 said:


> I need your advice. I was expecting my husband to reach out outside our marriage and try and “even the score”. I’m not going into much detail, but our modern ways have allowed me to understand that he is constantly in contact with this woman and i don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, i know I created this situation, but on the other hand I want to rip her head out. I have her phone number. Please help me


What score is there to even? Your H has said D is forthcoming. He has detached and moving on. 

I would think you feelings about it are about the same as your H feelings when he found out you were seeing OM?


----------



## Taxman

The one constant in infidelity is the emasculation of the BH. Women are similarly neutered. It robs you of your sexuality and therefore, I understand the revenge affair. For some people waiting the months it will take for a divorce to be final or even until separation is complete is bothersome. My wife never ever calls what she did revenge. No, she says that since we were separated, she felt justified in sleeping with someone else. I have countered, what would you have done had I slept around while we were separated, and I got, "well, I would have just carried through with the divorce." Circular logic. I felt essentially that she felt dirty after her tryst, but wouild never admit it, according to the little prick she slept with, she did not want or give oral, essentially all he got was a PIV quickie. Hey, ya bought her a drink, so you got payment in kind.

I cannot help but wonder, once justlost's husband has gotten it out of his system, would he be inclined to at least start talking?


----------



## OutofRetirement

justlost891 said:


> I need your advice. I was expecting my husband to reach out outside our marriage and try and “even the score”. I’m not going into much detail, but our modern ways have allowed me to understand that he is constantly in contact with this woman and i don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, i know I created this situation, but on the other hand I want to rip her head out. I have her phone number. Please help me


Just be genuine. React according to how you feel. Be honest. You are never going to reconcile by not being fully honest.

The other woman, if she knows he still is married, is a POS. Blow her up if you want. She deserves it. What kind of good woman does that? 

But your husband is the one who matters most, not her. Your husband is doing this. If not with this woman, probably with another one. It's not like your affair. He is not in love with her, if that's what you think, even if he is telling her that. He is impaired from the affair. Someone probably should help him if he goes off the rails, but you probably isn't that person. But someone he respects.

But follow your values. You can never go wrong being true to your values.

I think you're still impaired from the affair. Rationalizing and minimizing a bit. It's the fact that you could have thought that comforting your lover, and reminiscing about the affair while doing it, was not infidelity, makes me question of your perception of your actions and what they mean.


----------



## justlost891

Today I was finally able to confirm my suspicion. Not only is my husband seeing another woman, but they are also talking love and kids only a mere three weeks into this relationship. I know it is not my place to feel upset about this, after all I created this situation, but I did reach out to this woman and asked if she knew he is married, I also sent a screenshot of the messages I found to him. I haven’t received a response from either one. I know it is probably not the correct thing to do, I just couldn’t help myself and went with it. Tomorrow I am going to try and find a different apartment to move to. Obviously, any chance of reconciliation I had hoped for has been confirmed to be impossible and any efforts on my end, senseless. I have many conflicting emotions and don’t know which way to turn


----------



## smi11ie

Things are getting messy now. He has clearly jumped headfirst into a new relationship before the divorce. Moving into a new apartment will be good for you. You need to get away from the drama.


----------



## ABHale

justlost891 said:


> Also, I have now signed up for health insurance through my new job and will be selecting a therapist to work with


You can refuse the drugs they try and push. Just be upfront about the fact that you refuse any treatment that involves drugs.


----------



## stro

you have to let go.


----------



## ABHale

justlost891 said:


> Today I was finally able to confirm my suspicion. Not only is my husband seeing another woman, but they are also talking love and kids only a mere three weeks into this relationship. I know it is not my place to feel upset about this, after all I created this situation, but I did reach out to this woman and asked if she knew he is married, I also sent a screenshot of the messages I found to him. I haven’t received a response from either one. I know it is probably not the correct thing to do, I just couldn’t help myself and went with it. Tomorrow I am going to try and find a different apartment to move to. Obviously, any chance of reconciliation I had hoped for has been confirmed to be impossible and any efforts on my end, senseless. I have many conflicting emotions and don’t know which way to turn


Turn to yourself, plain and simple. 

Justlost you need to rely on yourself and no one else. You can do this. 

Good plan on finding another place. Best of luck with the search. 

Don’t fine someone else just to move in with or have someone. 

Stop paying any attention to what your STBX is doing. He has left the relationship already. It would have been nice if he had waited until the separation but he didn’t. He is at least being nice when interacting with you. This could have been really ugly if he was of a different character.


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## GusPolinski

If she’s married then your husband is a ****ing hypocrite _on top of_ incredibly naive. Three weeks and they’re talking marriage and kids? :lol: :rofl:

Anyway, if she’s married, expose the affair to her husband.

Let your husband go either way.


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## justlost891

GusPolinski said:


> If she’s married then your husband is a ****ing hypocrite _on top of_ incredibly naive. Three weeks and they’re talking marriage and kids? <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/lol.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Lol" ></a> <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/rofl.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Rofl" ></a>
> 
> Anyway, if she’s married, expose the affair to her husband.
> 
> Let your husband go either way.


I don’t know if she’s married TBH
He says I have no right to enquire about his life


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## justlost891

I’m staying at a hotel for a couple of days and already applied for an apartment that I’ll go tour tomorrow. I’d rather be done with this and focus on myself than continue to drag this painful process for no reason. Clearly he’s moved on and is already in love and looking to have children


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## justlost891

ABHale said:


> He is at least being nice when interacting with you. This could have been really ugly if he was of a different character.


Well he was up until this morning when he told me I had no right and that I ruined his life a second time by reaching out to this woman. He says I am dead to him and doesn’t ever want to see or hear from me again. The last few days get really toxic so I packed a small bag and checked into a hotel. I’m done with this hurtful back and forth and I’m taking the advice given here and I’m making the move


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## personofinterest

If you believe it's fine for his behavior to be dependent on yours, then he's just living his life.

If you believe people are accountable for their own character...


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## justlost891

personofinterest said:


> If you believe it's fine for his behavior to be dependent on yours, then he's just living his life.
> 
> If you believe people are accountable for their own character...


I’m not saying my actions justify his, I’m just saying that because I was the person causing this situation, I don’t know that I have any right to feel the way I do right now


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## ABHale

I believe your STBX thinks the way I would. If my wife cheated on me I would consider the marriage over at that point. The divorce would just take care of the legal aspect of it. 

I know it was hurting you and driving you crazy. Honestly though as soon as he made it clear he wasn’t going to R he could do as he pleased. 

When I read that you contacted the woman he was seeing i knew there might be trouble. If she disregarded you no real problem. If she didn’t you would be bringing your STBX anger on to yourself. 

Best to have keep quite. Because even if there was a chance for the two of you to R down the road, it’s gone now.


----------



## justlost891

ABHale said:


> I believe your STBX thinks the way I would. If my wife cheated on me I would consider the marriage over at that point. The divorce would just take care of the legal aspect of it.
> 
> I know it was hurting you and driving you crazy. Honestly though as soon as he made it clear he wasn’t going to R he could do as he pleased.
> 
> When I read that you contacted the woman he was seeing i knew there might be trouble. If she disregarded you no real problem. If she didn’t you would be bringing your STBX anger on to yourself.
> 
> Best to have keep quite. Because even if there was a chance for the two of you to R down the road, it’s gone now.


Yeah I get it. I let my emotions drive my actions again. I understand I blew all chance I had, now it’s clear I only have one road to follow


----------



## alte Dame

Your judgment has been flawed. You see that, don't you? Get to therapy and start the process of understanding why you have done what you've done. Saying that you don't know why you blew up your life isn't at all sufficient. Stay 'no contact' with him, give him the divorce, and take it one day at a time. I know it's hard.

And, please - don't turn to your OM for solace now that you're 'free' to do so. It wouldn't be good for your healing, in my opinion.

Good luck!


----------



## Taxman

The rage toward you speaks volumes, leave him be. Let him work on this alone. His actions do not say a calm and logical man. He needed to explode. He may be rational later on.


----------



## TRy

justlost891 said:


> Yeah I get it. I let my emotions drive my actions again.


As long as you make excuses for your actions, you will not learn how to do the right thing. Your emotions did not cause you to cheat, or to deliberately try to cause trouble between your soon to be ex and his new girlfriend. You did both because you are self centered. 

Given the same situation as your soon to be ex, I would hope that I would have the strength of character to so decisively move on like he did. There was no lying involved when he said that he was moving on and getting a divorce. At that point other women at work or that know him through friends would logically make their move. He does not like dating and did not expect to be dating at this point in his life, so I am not surprised that he wants to move on so quickly with someone else. Even if it does not work out with his new girlfriend, he will be married to someone else rather quickly, because he likes being married. That is just who he is. You can actually take this as a sort of complaint by him to you, that other than the cheating he enjoyed be married to you.


----------



## sokillme

So he is clearly rebounding, no one talks love and kids in 3 weeks if they are thinking right. Unless this has been going on for a while, which it might have been. Who knows. 

Time and distance is the only answer here. Unfortunately this is what happens when there is infidelity. Everyone's world blows up. It's like an emotional bomb thrown into your life. Hopefully you will learn from this that no amount of excitement is worth the aftermath. Your life will go on, and you can recover with hard work. The lesson is to do the work, him doing wrong doesn't negate your wrong. You still need to fix yourself if in the end you want to have a healthy relationship.


----------



## Wazza

TRy said:


> As long as you make excuses for your actions, you will not learn how to do the right thing. Your emotions did not cause you .... to deliberately try to cause trouble between your soon to be ex and his new girlfriend. You did both because you are self centered.


I think this is harsh. 

JustLost, what you are going through hurts. Knowing you stuffed up does not make it hurt less. The thing is, your husband is hurting as much as you are, and you had a choice whereas he didn't. 

I don't think he's trying to punish you. He's just trying to pick himself up and get his life back on track, and he's at the start of a long and difficult road. The way you're describing it does not ring totally true to me. There is more to the story, but I don't think that changes what you have to do, which is move on and rebuild.

You do, at some stage, need to think about why you cheated and what you need to do to avoid a repeat. You need to address that before you form another serious relationship, but you need to just work through accepting what has happened now. You made a bad decision. You can't change your past but you can steer your future.


----------



## bandit.45

I can’t shake the feeling that the husband has been checked out of the marriage for years and has been waiting for an opportunity to end the marriage for quite a while...most likely long before OP had her affair. 

OP provided him with the justification he was looking for to end the marriage without looking like the bad guy. And I would wager he has been grooming this OW for far longer than three weeks. 

His new relationship sounds like it was rushed, but it wasn’t. He’s lying too.


----------



## EllaSuaveterre

Goodness sake, you poor thing. I really feel your confusion and pain in your words.

I wrote something several months back, but I think you will find it helpful. I know it's really late for me to start giving you advice, but maybe I'm not too late and you'll be able to get the support you need.



> Hey there. My name's Ella, and I'm sorry you're going through this. You have my full support and empathy. You are *NOT* a bad person and you deserve good things. I know you have it in you to get through this and survive. May I offer you some advice and resources? I have to warn you, this is going to be a long one, mostly copy-pasted from things I've posted on other infidelity websites.
> 
> *TL;DR: You're not a bad person. Don't hate yourself. Take as much time to relax and heal yourself as you can. Do what your spouse asks you to, but set a deadline for a later date so you can prepare. Validate and comfort yourself. Grieve for the relationship(s) you've lost. Understand your feelings. Try to understand your spouse's feelings. Seriously, DO NOT HATE YOURSELF. Reward yourself for doing the right thing. Click the blue links below for more help. You can do this. I believe in you.*
> 
> In my search through half a dozen books, hundreds of articles, and thousands of forum posts on multiple websites dedicated to recovering from infidelity, I noticed that something was missing. There was a wealth of good advice on how to comfort your Betrayed Spouse, but very little on how to comfort yourself. So many Wayward Spouses, whilst trying to navigate the mess they made, find themselves biting their tongues in a herculean effort not to wail, “But what about ME?!! This hurts ME too, you know!!”
> 
> And if you, as a Wayward Spouse, have ever actually said that aloud, you’ve probably been made aware of how selfish it sounds. Almost everyone who finds out about the affair, from your Betrayed Spouse to their friends and family to your co-workers to strangers on the internet, are going to be judgmental and quite possibly a little hateful towards you. They couldn’t care less if they tried about your feelings, and might even want you to suffer. This is to be expected. After all, you broke your Betrayed Spouse’s heart and very likely traumatized them for life. People have been commonly known to develop severe physical and psychological symptoms identical to PTSD following an affair. And the later the affair is discovered, the worse it is, so unfortunately you will have to tell your spouse.
> At the same time, though, your needs are still valid. Your pain is still valid. You may not have a right to say so out loud to your partner, but you have a right to feel how you feel. You can’t control other people’s criticism or insults. But you can still control you, and if you treat yourself well you can make this a little less agonizing on yourself.
> 
> *1)Take time for yourself if at all possible.* Schedule time in. Mark it on your calendar. Most people probably don’t have this much time, but an hour on weekdays, 2-3 days a week, and several hours on Saturday or Sunday is ideal if you can spare it.
> 
> You should use 2/3 of your free time to focus on helping your spouse and rebuilding your bond, and the remaining 1/3 is yours to process and heal. For example, if you have 2 hours free on a certain weeknight, 40 minutes should be dedicated to processing and healing.
> 
> This will be easier if your spouse has turns her back on you once you tell her, and you end up living alone. If you haven't been kicked out of the marital home, you will need to inform your Betrayed Spouse that you would like to spend X amount of time a week alone, thinking about what you've done. The fact that you’re asking for time to process will prove to them that you're trying, but you SHOULDN'T spend that time whipping yourself. Use the time to deal with the consequences of your actions, yes, but also to process and honor your emotions, and to relax and have some much-needed downtime.
> 
> If you find yourself depressed, alone, not wanting to go out, and just generally beside yourself with emotion and you don't know what to do, You Feel Like Sh*t _(You can google “you feel like sh*t self-care guide” in order to find it because TAM won’t let me link it)_ is my favorite self-care guide in that it's interactive. It asks you a series of questions and then gives you advice, one step at a time, based upon your responses. I often use it when I'm feeling so upset I don't think I even have the power to move, or when I'm feeling vaguely "bad" but have no idea why. Nine times out of ten, it gets me back on my feet. It would be a great tool to use (in conjunction with the abandonment workbook and a long bubble bath!) when you're feeling particularly stressed over your Betrayed's pain or especially mournful over your former Mistress. Obviously, if even that doesn't help, you feel suicidal, and/or you're bogged down with sadness in a way that seems overbearing or unusual for you, see a doctor or a therapist, of which I am neither.
> 
> You probably have restrictions now about where you can be and when and with whom. But you can work within them and carve out space for yourself even so. For example, your Betrayed Spouse might not want you to leave the house by yourself for anything other than work or errands. That’s okay. You can take up a spare bedroom with just yourself, a relaxing hobby, and/or a marriage book specifically for Wayward Spouses. Shut yourself in the bathroom and have a bubble bath with some relaxing music playing. Watch a light-hearted movie (No romances for now). If you ARE going out, offer to check in every hour, and send a text or a photo of yourself. In between check-ins, take the time to relax, pamper yourself (because you DESERVE IT!!), and process your feelings. I'll tell you more about HOW, exactly, to process your feelings below.
> 
> *2) Name your feelings.* An unfortunate part of being a Wayward Spouse is that you seem to forfeit the rights to your own feelings. You can’t go to your ex for comfort, your friends and family will probably be too furious with you to help you identify and process your emotions. Commonly, the advice is given that whatever you do, you can’t expect your spouseto be considerate of your feelings. Since you and your feelings for your affair partner have caused so much pain and suffering to your Betrayed Spouse, chances are pretty good that they couldn’t care less what your feelings are about your infidelity. That is valid. They have every right to be hurt.
> 
> BUT, your emotions are valid too, and you have a right- indeed, an obligation to yourself- to feel them in their entirety. During your aforementioned alone time, it can really help state your feelings out loud into a voice recorder, or write them down in a journal- especially if they are the sort of feelings that aren’t socially acceptable to share with others. Go into detail about your feelings. Examples might be, “I feel angry with my Betrayed Spouse because s/he isn't sympathetic towards me over the loss of my Mistress” Or, “I feel grieved because I heard a song on the radio that reminded me of my affair partner and I wish I could go see her”.
> 
> Your feelings may not be socially acceptable to talk about, and they may be wrong to act upon, but feelings, in and of themselves, are neither good nor bad. They are what they are, and you have the right to feel them.
> 
> If you are having trouble identifying or expressing your emotions, it would be VERY wise to get an individual counselor with experience in infidelity to vent to. They will help you process without judging you, yet still hold you accountable for your actions.
> 
> *3) Validate yourself.* During this time where it may feel like no one is there for you, be your own best friend. Be kind to yourself. Don’t lie to yourself or minimize what you’ve done, but don’t be overly harsh either. Heaven knows you get enough vitriol from everybody else. So acknowledge your successes, even if you’re the only one who will.
> 
> Validation does not mean that the affair was okay or that you should act on your feelings, only that you recognize the feelings are there. Address yourself comfortingly and soothingly without justifying the affair. For example, if you’ve gone two weeks without talking to your affair partner, you could say, “I’ve been through two weeks of missing my ex, and I survived! Someday soon, I won’t miss her anymore.” Or if your Betrayed Spouse lashes out at you, you might think to yourself, “This is really painful and difficult for me, but I’m doing the best I can, and can get through it.” If you miss your affair partner and want to call her, you might say to yourself, "It's natural to miss someone I've had a romantic/sexual relationship with, but I can't call her because I made a promise to my spouse not to hurt her anymore by contacting my ex."
> 
> *4) Grieve.* Most of the advice on infidelity websites states that you should never allow your feelings of sorrow to get in the way of helping your Betrayed Spouse to heal. That you should never allow your grief to be an excuse to resume the affair or to avoid personal accountability for the affair. This advice is absolutely correct, but despite what anyone else says, you do have a right to be upset.
> 
> The truth of the matter is, you’re grieving the loss of a relationship. It was a wrong relationship, an illegitimate relationship, a relationship you should never have had. But it was still something you lost. You broke up with your affair partner; it’s a breakup. Your Betrayed Spouse could very well divorce you in the aftermath of your infidelity, so you may be grieving the loss of your marriage as well. And if you bottle up all that grief and pretend you don't feel it, it's going to come out in more destructive ways later.
> 
> So it's very important that you take some time for yourself (Preferably, the aforementioned alone time) to process your own pain. Go ahead, indulge. Eat half a pint of ice cream, play that one sad love song over and over, write your mistress a letter and burn it. Break out the tissues and cry until you're totally spent, then wash your face and have some tea. Punch things. Do all the things people do to move past a breakup, so long as nothing you’re doing is harmful (such as drinking, drugs, or texting your ex). This is a breakup, and you’re strong enough to get through it.
> 
> HERE is a link I've found telling you a little more and how and why getting rid of all your grief and pain is important. It’s a publication that tells a wayward spouse who is considering ending or who has just ended an affair how to go no-contact, stay no-contact, and deal with their own private grief over losing their affair partner. It explains that while going no-contact, getting rid of affair memorabilia, and banishing them from your heart is necessary, it also says that honest, true, and final grieving for the fantasy life you thought was real is equally necessary. It offers no judgment of a Wayward's character, only of their actions.
> 
> Another book I love is The Abandonment Recovery Workbook  and it is one I have bought and used myself. I didn't use it to get over my Other Man specifically, but rather to grieve the loss of a friendship. Still, as it was written with both Wayward Spouses AND Betrayed Spouses in mind, and does not differentiate between either's pain, and treats them with equal compassion, I consider it absolutely ideal in helping the grieved and hurting Wayward deal non-judgmentally with the sometimes all-consuming pain that composes the consequences of your actions and the loss of your fantasy relationship.
> 
> *5) Practice empathy.* Sometimes self-care means doing difficult things, things that you dread doing in the short run, because you know it will make your life better in the long run.
> Once you have labeled your feelings and felt them, do your best to imagine what it would be like if the person you loved romantically cheated on you. Try to develop empathy for your Betrayed Spouse. Imagine if your spouse had an affair (or if your affair partner cheated on you) and they felt for her affair partner what you feel for yours. Imagine if s/he told you s/he wished you’d stop complaining because s/he’s suffering too. Think about how this would make you feel. This is not to shame you, but help you to develop empathy and remorse by picturing what your spouse must be going through.
> Yes, you’re hurting because of what you’ve done, and you absolutely have the right to feel and process all of your hurt, but your Betrayed Spouse is hurting as well. S/he needs you. So put yourself in your spouse’s shoes, and go read all of those other books, the ones that tell you how to help your Betrayed Spouse, and take the advice on board. Even if it feels miserable to face up to what you’ve done or to have to comfort someone else when you’re in pain, it will make your marriage better in the long run.
> If it takes you too long to come to the recognition that you have severely hurt your spouse and that you need to help her, you'll probably lose your spouse. Therefore, I recommend you at least start trying to read the below material whether you feel ready or not. The eagerness to help heal will come with time. If you lead with the head, the heart will follow eventually.
> 
> Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass is an oft-recommended gold standard for both Wayward and Betrayed Spouses, as it helps to elucidate BOTH parties' thoughts, feelings, and motivations during every stage of an affair and afterwards. There are some hard-hitting truths in here about the real nature, consequences, and longevity of affair relationships, but if you're a Wayward Spouse, they are things you need to hear. You can't properly grieve for the alleged "perfect relationship" you've lost if you don't understand why you never really had it in the first place. It also gives you some pointers on what your spouse is currently feeling and why, and what you can do to help them feel better. Myself, I bought the e-book and the audiobook and my Betrayed Spouse and I listen together to a few chapters every once in a while. He says he finds it enlightening rather than triggering.
> 
> 
> 
> How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair is another big one people recommend here a lot. I've read it, and while I personally find it a little dry and unemotional, it's a decent how-to guide. I've also read an article by our very own @Affaircare called Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse and it is much more succinct and to-the-point about what your spouse is feeling, why she is feeling that way, and how to help her through the pain your actions have caused her.
> Word of obvious warning, this isn't easy stuff to digest. A lot of it will trigger feelings of guilt and shame. For the most part, the only way to cope with that is to push the feelings down for a little while in moments when your spouse needs you to listen to them, comfort them, and reassure them. Forget what you feel for a few short moments and focus on doing and saying whatever they need you to. Focus on being their healer. You can take time to yourself later to decompress and unpack your horrible, guilty, doleful feelings when you are alone.
> 
> 
> *6) Find out why you cheated.* In the same vein as processing your feelings and emotions about the affair, you also need to process your feelings and emotions *before* the affair. This is a several-step process, and you might have to stop and regroup (or grieve, or rest) several times. That's more than okay. This stuff hurts really badly a lot of the time, and you are EXTREMELY brave to attempt to do it. But don't shy away from the pain because you need to feel it in order to heal.
> 
> Try and remember what you were thinking and feeling most of the time just before you fell for your affair partner(s). Did you often feel lonely? Angry? Empty? Numb? Dissatisfied? Write down these feelings in a journal. It's okay if you didn't feel any of those things, but write that down too.
> 
> Now try and remember how you felt when you met your paramour(s). Remember all the feelings they inspired in you and all the thoughts you had about them. Examples of such thoughts might include, "She looks so sweet", "He's really sexy", "She seems nurturing", "He's funny."
> 
> Next, remember and write down all the things you loved about your affair partners(s), and everything s/he did for you while you were in the relationship or having the one night stand(s). Examples might be that s/he gave you really great sex, or that s/he was your crying shoulder, or that s/he was spontaneous and made you laugh.
> 
> If you have all three of those categories written down, you now have a vague idea of why you cheated, because you know what was missing in your life, and what you may have been subconsciously looking for in your relationship(s) that made the affair(s) look attractive to you. And you might begin to formulate a way to meet those needs yourself. For example, if you often felt lonely, and you loved your affair partner because he was nurturing and kind, you now know that you need comfort and emotional support, and from there you can find a way to get that emotional support without cheating on your spouse again. If you often felt bored pre-affair, and the first thing you noticed about your mistress was how young and beautiful she was, and you loved her sense of humor and her skill in bed, you now know that you need sexual excitement, and if you reconcile you might be able to get that from your spouse without needing to have another affair.
> 
> All of this is very hard work, and may take months to properly analyze and figure out. And, of course, there might be other factors such as mental illness, drug addiction, childhood abuse, and more. If it is at ALL possible, I STRONGLY recommend you see a therapist for help in sorting out your reasons for cheating.
> 
> 
> 
> *7) Take time to prepare for big tasks.* If your spouse asks you to do something that makes you feel overwhelmed, hopeless and terrified (e.g. write a timeline, take a polygraph exam, or have a long conversation about the affair) plan out when specifically- date and time- that you will be able to fulfill said request. Tell your spouse, "I will (insert request here), but I need some time to prepare. Can I (insert request here) for you on (date) at (time)?” Then take a break.
> 
> Process your feelings and relax until the specified time. Having a deadline or a specific time set means you can't avoid your partner's request. No excuses. It has to be done on time, but since you've taken time beforehand, you will hopefully be as relaxed and prepared as you can be when the time comes.
> 
> *8) Separate shame from remorse.* So much of the counsel in infidelity circles chastens the Wayward Spouse to become remorseful, and fast. The same advisors will tell the betrayed to look for remorse in their partner- and leave if they don’t see enough of it. But remorse isn’t shame. Shame involves self-loathing and it considers the fatal flaw to be you as a person, not the infidelity. Shame says, “I’m a terrible person. I’ll always be a terrible person. I’m worthless. Why even try?”
> 
> Remorse, on the other hand, knows that the flaw was in what you did, but not in who you are. Remorse says, “I made a terrible choice. I devastated my spouse, and that will take a long time to recover from. But I can and will recover from it because I am capable of being a better person than my actions have shown. From now on, I’m going to be the good person I know I can be.” Remorse is determined, rather than defeated. When you catch yourself calling yourself names or condemning yourself, try to re-frame the thought as hating your past behavior rather than hating who you are as a person.
> 
> *9) Reward Yourself.* You probably don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel right now, and the horrific reality of where your marriage now stands coupled with the pain of loss might make it that much harder for you to find motivation to do what’s right. You can light a candle or two in that tunnel yourself, though. Every week you don’t text your Mistress, every time you take a major step towards healing your Betrayed Spouse and yourself, every hurdle you overcome is cause to celebrate your progress. Reward yourself for sticking with it.
> Perhaps give yourself X amount of money every week you don’t contact your ex affair partner, and save up to buy something extravagant. Examples might be a spa treatment, a new device of your choosing, or a new playlist from iTunes.
> 
> Another thing you might do is to reward yourself with something special after you’ve overcome a hurdle such as taking a polygraph, or reached a milestone such as 6 months without your affair partner. Especially when no one else is willing to acknowledge your accomplishments, do so yourself and treat yourself after doing something especially emotionally taxing.
> 
> Again, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. The worst part about being a Wayward Spouse is that no one seems to care about your suffering. The Betrayed Spouse comes first, which leaves precious little room for your own hurt and healing. While it’s true that you must now put your spouse’s needs above your own, the good news is that you don’t have to neglect yourself in the process. If you have cheated on your spouse and are now trying to navigate the chaotic despair, I wish you good luck, better guidance, and healing. As an end note, please remember that this too shall pass, even if it looks from all angles that your life will be like this forever. It won't. As you and your Betrayed Spouse heal together, you can take comfort in knowing that you were part of their healing.


I hope some of this advice helps you to help your spouse and give yourself a little comfort. I'm so sorry you're going through this horrible ordeal. If you need a crying shoulder, please feel free to PM me. I'll listen. Much love to you.


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## Gabriel

bandit.45 said:


> I can’t shake the feeling that the husband has been checked out of the marriage for years and has been waiting for an opportunity to end the marriage for quite a while...most likely long before OP had her affair.
> 
> OP provided him with the justification he was looking for to end the marriage without looking like the bad guy. And I would wager he has been grooming this OW for far longer than three weeks.
> 
> His new relationship sounds like it was rushed, but it wasn’t. He’s lying too.


Was thinking the exact same thing. This is way too easy for him. And it seemed like a dying marriage given the narrative shared with us. He was checking out, her affair just made it quicker.


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## hoblob

Gabriel said:


> Was thinking the exact same thing. This is way too easy for him. And it seemed like a dying marriage given the narrative shared with us. He was checking out, her affair just made it quicker.


We’re all with you bandit. I mean, I revenge cheated but didn’t start an affair and my feelings for anyone or anything were practically at 0 after finding out. Either he knew something was up way back and starting his own thing...actually no or. This is to be it. Talking about kids and marriage after 3 weeks!!


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## justlost891

Funny you guys would mention this as I continue to discover more and more. Apparently he was also signed up to several dating apps, some for over a year now. I don’t know if he knew this woman before now, but it sure seems rushed.
Please cross your fingers for me! I’m waiting to hear back if I got approved for an apartment to move into this week!


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## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> Funny you guys would mention this as I continue to discover more and more. Apparently he was also signed up to several dating apps, some for over a year now. I don’t know if he knew this woman before now, but it sure seems rushed.
> Please cross your fingers for me! I’m waiting to hear back if I got approved for an apartment to move into this week!


I'm not surprised. 

Good luck on the apt! 

I think you will find that you are going to be much happier with this marriage behind you. But remember, regardless of your H's actions you need to keep working on yourself to make sure you are a safe partner to the next man you settle down with.


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## hoblob

bandit.45 said:


> I'm not surprised.
> 
> Good luck on the apt!
> 
> I think you will find that you are going to be much happier with this marriage behind you. But remember, regardless of your H's actions you need to keep working on yourself to make sure you are a safe partner to the next man you settle down with.


Yeah. You still had an affair. You didn’t know what your husband was up to when you did. Plenty of men withdraw and don’t become emotional etc (including me) but that isn’t because we’re on dating sites. No one deserves to be cheated on. You need to find out why you did what you did and why you didn’t feel that you could communicate with him.

Good luck with your endeavors. Hope you find happiness with yourself


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## justlost891

Hi everyone. I did get approved for the apartment and I can move in tomorrow. I’m looking forward to starting a new chapter and being able to focus on working on my flaws and make myself a healthier and happier person so hopefully next time I won’t blow it


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## TheBohannons

Enjoy your apartment and your new life. Do not interfere in his love life. It is more likely that he knew of your affair a long time ago. Let's be honest, you never really cared for the man. Divorce amicably and wish him well.


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## hoblob

TheBohannons said:


> Enjoy your apartment and your new life. Do not interfere in his love life. It is more likely that he knew of your affair a long time ago. Let's be honest, you never really cared for the man. Divorce amicably and wish him well.


I’m sure they cared for each other at some point. But I agree. Good luck. What an interesting plot twist


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## Dyokemm

Your BH should have been more honest with you that he was done......that your A had killed the M and was a dealbreaker for him.

Keeping you in the dark for the past year while allowing you to think there was a chance to R was unnecessary......

He probably intended it as a shot of the pain you inflicted on him first.....unfortunate that he did this to hurt you rather that just being honest that your M was permanently ruined and he wanted to move on.

Keep working on yourself so that your next relationship does not go down this same path.


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## Lostinthought61

Justlost, 

I think your husband is a hypocrite, i concur with others here, he is trying to make himself look like a boy scout....look there is enough blame and shame to go around but pinning it all on you just makes me sick. He is a hypocrite and you should call him out on it.


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## Dyokemm

bandit.45 said:


> I can’t shake the feeling that the husband has been checked out of the marriage for years and has been waiting for an opportunity to end the marriage for quite a while...most likely long before OP had her affair.
> 
> OP provided him with the justification he was looking for to end the marriage without looking like the bad guy. And I would wager he has been grooming this OW for far longer than three weeks.
> 
> His new relationship sounds like it was rushed, but it wasn’t. He’s lying too.


Not sure I agree it was before her A.....

OP said that at the time of her relapse over a year ago, her BH was very suspicious that something went down......but she denied it.

Sounds to me that this is when he checked out......he might not have had proof, but his gut was screaming.

Since OP says his going on dating sites began shortly after (she said almost a year) it sounds like this is when he detached....

Like many BH’s here, sounds like he knew in his gut she had cheated.....just didn’t have the evidence.

And he started taking steps to move on.....probably second guessing himself some as we have all seen BHs do on these threads.....

Then when he got the confirmation....BAM!!

He was out the door completely with someone he had already been talking to.....sounds like previous to getting the whole crappy load of detail, he already had one foot out.....

That said, I still think it was the growing suspicion of OP’s A that was the catalyst for the slow demise of her M.


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## BarbedFenceRider

Lostinthought61 said:


> Justlost,
> 
> I think your husband is a hypocrite, i concur with others here, he is trying to make himself look like a boy scout....look there is enough blame and shame to go around but pinning it all on you just makes me sick. He is a hypocrite and you should call him out on it.



And to what end? What exactly is to be gained here? We would call this pain shopping. Look, doing dirty to each other has been done since the days of Sampson and Delilah. But it doesn't address the main point of OP's thread. How can she rebuild herself into a worthwhile partner and loving person that SHE enjoys. As the old saying goes..."You gotta love yourself, if you want to love me.."

OP is truly getting it! The first step is stopping the bullsh*t and being real to herself. And she is. Getting an apartment and looking to herself for validation will help her in the long run. Recognizing destructive behavior and building purpose as well.


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## michzz

From my perspective the OP's soon to be ex-husband had a right to move on from the marriage she destroyed.

When I finally filed for divorce from my horrible long-term cheating ex-wife, I had been devastated for a long, long time.

I finally managed to get it together, we sold the house and I had an apartment 100 miles away from that house. But the divorce was taking so long, she foot dragging. I moved and bought a house 500 miles away and got on with my life as the divorce wound its way through the system.

I intended to be a friggin monk, not trusting my picker.

But then I met someone and went all in. This was before the divorce was final. 

I had not been intimate with anyone in five years and then only with the ex for decades. The strange quasi-separation we had lasted for those five years. We lived apart and I came "home" to prepare it for sale.

In my view, I was entitled!

The lady I met? We've been married four years now.

The divorce was final four months after we started dating. I let her know up front my situation. All her girlfriends told her to dump me, that I was playing her.

So many people kept saying rebound.

But you know what? We're still together.

I believe that my current marriage is a lifesaver, a validation of what is possible.

Who cares if the ex-wife tried to tell our kids that I must have been secretly with my current wife since we only dated a year.

It isn't true, I never met her until I moved away, and only then, by chance.

What does matter is that divorcing a cheating woman who doesn't really care for you but for material comforts is a great thing for a man to do.

It restores your life.


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## justlost891

Thank you all for your encouragement. I picked up the keys today and am very much looking forward to standing on my own two feet and figuring things out on my own. As far as my husband goes, I hope he is happy. I do have to wonder between the dating apps and the loving, kid wanting three week relationship, how much more there is that I don’t know. At this point I just don’t care truly. All I want is to move on and work on myself to get better and make sure I won’t make the same “mistakes” (I know you guys don’t like that word)
I’m seeing him tomorrow evening as I asked to start talking about our belongings and financial standing so we can figure out what to do to split everything evenly and fairly. I know I created this situation, but at the same time I can’t just be left with nothing when I worked just as hard for everything we have as little as it may be.
I’ll keep you guys updated as much as I can!

Thank you again


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## Marc878

Affairs as you've found are easy to get into but much harder to get out of.

You are young and can remake yourself into what you want.

By now you know what not to do. Learn from it.


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## Kamstel

So, now that you are about to start new chapter of your life, looking back on your previous chapter, have you learned and taken anything away from it?


----------



## justlost891

Kamstel said:


> So, now that you are about to start new chapter of your life, looking back on your previous chapter, have you learned and taken anything away from it?


Yeah... don’t get married! Just kidding. I’ve learned to listen to my inner voice and realize that if something starts to feel odd, then I need to do some introspection rather than shaking it off and ignoring it. I don’t believe my learning is done here but I think for now my takeaway is to pay more attention to my moral compass than to act without thinking. After all, that is what differentiates is from animals


----------



## smi11ie

Just follow 2 rules and you should be ok.

1) Don’t have sexual contact with other people while you are in a relationship.

2) Don’t have sexual contact with people who are in a relationship.

It really is that simple. Who would have thought?


----------



## kekkek

michzz said:


> What does matter is that divorcing a cheating woman who doesn't really care for you but for material comforts is a great thing for a man to do.
> 
> It restores your life.


Inspirational quote. I think I will tape it to my fridge.


----------



## kekkek

smi11ie said:


> Just follow 2 rules and you should be ok.
> 
> 1) Don’t have sexual contact with other people while you are in a relationship.
> 
> 2) Don’t have sexual contact with people who are in a relationship.
> 
> It really is that simple. Who would have thought?


Absolutely just this. I know that EA can end a relationship, but people change over time and things happen. It may be painful, but that is not betrayal in my book. PA is betrayal. I am not even that concerned about a little physical contact arising out of an EA, although that gets more painful. It is genital contact that is the worst betrayal in many men's eyes.

Take another metaphor of getting into a fight. EA-level is like yelling at someone. A kiss or hug is the anger equivalent of a push or a shove. But PIV is like picking up a pipe to bash someone's head in. It crosses a line.

By the way, you should not bash someone in the head with a pipe. That is another rule that I hope people are aware of. I like how smi11ie keeps it simple.


----------



## Pepe1970

You know, with you being the cheater and all I have to say, I have some level of respect for you. You sound mature, I've been following our posts and made me look at you as someone who is learning the lesson which makes you a bigger person. Kind of makes me proud of you. 
Hat off to you.


justlost891 said:


> Yeah... don’t get married! Just kidding. I’ve learned to listen to my inner voice and realize that if something starts to feel odd, then I need to do some introspection rather than shaking it off and ignoring it. I don’t believe my learning is done here but I think for now my takeaway is to pay more attention to my moral compass than to act without thinking. After all, that is what differentiates is from animals


Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


----------



## justlost891

Pepe1970 said:


> You know, with you being the cheater and all I have to say, I have some level of respect for you. You sound mature, I've been following our posts and made me look at you as someone who is learning the lesson which makes you a bigger person. Kind of makes me proud of you.
> Hat off to you.


Thank you!!! Im in such a whirlwind that is good to know that others see that I am making some progress


----------



## snerg

bandit.45 said:


> I can’t shake the feeling that the husband has been checked out of the marriage for years and has been waiting for an opportunity to end the marriage for quite a while...most likely long before OP had her affair.
> 
> OP provided him with the justification he was looking for to end the marriage without looking like the bad guy. And I would wager he has been grooming this OW for far longer than three weeks.
> 
> His new relationship sounds like it was rushed, but it wasn’t. He’s lying too.


The only problem(s) I see here are:
1) That's a huge conspiracy. We're talking Kennedy assassination level.
2) If he was waiting for something to happen, *WOW*, what a kick to the crotch gift he received to end his marriage. 
3) The woman - that might be a a viable answer.


----------



## justlost891

smi11ie said:


> Just follow 2 rules and you should be ok.
> 
> 1) Don’t have sexual contact with other people while you are in a relationship.
> 
> 2) Don’t have sexual contact with people who are in a relationship.
> 
> It really is that simple. Who would have thought?


Pretty much! Thank you.


----------



## justlost891

kekkek said:


> By the way, you should not bash someone in the head with a pipe.


I’ll try to remember this one too, seems important... haha
I know what you said about physical contact and how it affects people in general, I will 100% keep that as my rule. In my husbands case, however, it feels as though he didn’t like someone played with his toys. He even said the sex was not even what bothered him. Anyway, I don’t want to keep stirring the pot.
Thank you for making me laugh.


----------



## Taxman

Congratulations on the new chapter. Your takeaway from this is to listen to your gut, if it feels wrong, then it usually is wrong. 

Now, as far as your discovery of his trolling dating sites for a year....interesting that he was doing this before Dday. Could his reaction to you be a bit of projection? Is he as lily-white in all of this? My bets are, no! I have too many experiences with people separated by miles and time. And you will probably hear about it within the next few months. Now you are really separated, and now your presence is not going to draw major emotional reactions. He will eventually calm down and assess what happened. You both frankly are quite stupid. I know, I was just as stupid. 

My advice is to lay low. Please do not date right now. I have a niggling feeling that over the course of the next several months, when you two interact there is going to come a discussion, that is calm, and really disquieting. This will be him baring what you did, and what he has done. That conversation, which I have had, is the one that usually either puts the final nail in the coffin, or opens the door a little crack.


----------



## Dyokemm

Taxman said:


> Congratulations on the new chapter. Your takeaway from this is to listen to your gut, if it feels wrong, then it usually is wrong.
> 
> Now, as far as your discovery of his trolling dating sites for a year....interesting that he was doing this before Dday. Could his reaction to you be a bit of projection? Is he as lily-white in all of this? My bets are, no! I have too many experiences with people separated by miles and time. And you will probably hear about it within the next few months. Now you are really separated, and now your presence is not going to draw major emotional reactions. He will eventually calm down and assess what happened. You both frankly are quite stupid. I know, I was just as stupid.
> 
> My advice is to lay low. Please do not date right now. I have a niggling feeling that over the course of the next several months, when you two interact there is going to come a discussion, that is calm, and really disquieting. This will be him baring what you did, and what he has done. That conversation, which I have had, is the one that usually either puts the final nail in the coffin, or opens the door a little crack.


Taxman....if I read OP’s first post right.....she had her ‘relapse’ in the A a little over a year ago.....and her BH was VERY suspiscious she had cheated on the trip back to their original home town....but she denied it.

From her recent discovery, he apparently created a profile on dating sites soon after....while beginning to emotionally detach from her.

Sounds to me like he knew in his gut she had cheated despite her denials and was taking steps to move on.....

Either he was sandbagging her for this past year to give her a painful surprise when he left (not the nicest move for sure).....or like many BH’s he kept going back and forth on whether to pull the trigger because he didn’t have absolute proof, only his gut feelings she had been unfaithful and was lying about it.

As soon as he got proof and her confession....he was gone and taking up with a woman he was most likely already talking to before DDay.

Based on this timeline from OP.....I do not think her BH was up to anything until he got strong suspicions she was cheating and lying to him about it.

Just my take.


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> Thank you all for your encouragement. I picked up the keys today and am very much looking forward to standing on my own two feet and figuring things out on my own. As far as my husband goes, I hope he is happy. I do have to wonder between the dating apps and the loving, kid wanting three week relationship, how much more there is that I don’t know. At this point I just don’t care truly. All I want is to move on and work on myself to get better and make sure I won’t make the same “mistakes” (I know you guys don’t like that word)
> I’m seeing him tomorrow evening as I asked to start talking about our belongings and financial standing so we can figure out what to do to split everything evenly and fairly. I know I created this situation, but at the same time I can’t just be left with nothing when I worked just as hard for everything we have as little as it may be.
> I’ll keep you guys updated as much as I can!
> 
> Thank you again


The word is choices. "All I want is to move on and work on myself to get better and make sure I won’t make the same choices".

And this is very important for you to see. Him blowing up as he has, whether it has just started or has been going on forever doesn't negate your choices. Relationships are precious, people who you love need to be protected even from you and YOUR worst instincts. Everyone wants the happily ever after right? You can't have this if you give into your worst self. It will never happen. 

There has been a running debate on this site of late should you tell if you cheat if you have reformed. Lets ignore that and just say, if you cheat you will never have the marriage that everyone wants because YOU will know that you have broken it. Having that kind of happily ever after marriage requires you thinking of it and your partner as someone that you need to protect and cherish. Someone whom you don't want to have secrets from. 

I ask you can you do that? This is what you need to be working towards and training yourself to be able to do. Real closeness and intimacy really requires this level of protection for your spouse.


----------



## justlost891

sokillme said:


> The word is choices. "All I want is to move on and work on myself to get better and make sure I won’t make the same choices".
> 
> And this is very important for you to see. Him blowing up as he has, whether it has just started or has been going on forever doesn't negate your choices. Relationships are precious, people who you love need to be protected even from you and YOUR worst instincts. Everyone wants the happily ever after right? You can't have this if you give into your worst self. It will never happen.
> 
> There has been a running debate on this site of late should you tell if you cheat if you have reformed. Lets ignore that and just say, if you cheat you will never have the marriage that everyone wants because YOU will know that you have broken it. Having that kind of happily ever after marriage requires you thinking of it and your partner as someone that you need to protect and cherish. Someone whom you don't want to have secrets from.
> 
> I ask you can you do that? This is what you need to be working towards and training yourself to be able to do. Real closeness and intimacy really requires this level of protection for your spouse.


I know it’s a choice not a mistake, but I regret the choices and so I see making them as a mistake, if that makes any sense.
I agree with what you say, it’s like if someone were to talk smack about someone I care about, and they’re not there, I would stand up for them. In the case of infidelity is basically standing up for your spouse in front of your own demons. I can’t say I’m 100% ready for that, but I believe this experience has taught me a lot and I can work towards that goal


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> I know it’s a choice not a mistake, but I regret the choices and so I see making them as a mistake, if that makes any sense.
> I agree with what you say, it’s like if someone were to talk smack about someone I care about, and they’re not there, I would stand up for them. In the case of infidelity is basically standing up for your spouse in front of your own demons. I can’t say I’m 100% ready for that, but I believe this experience has taught me a lot and I can work towards that goal


Good. Make no mistake this is the most important thing you will do with the rest of your life. It is going to define what and how the rest of your life will be. It's THAT serious! Be courageous and make it right.


----------



## TDSC60

justlost891 said:


> Funny you guys would mention this as I continue to discover more and more. *Apparently he was also signed up to several dating apps, some for over a year now.* I don’t know if he knew this woman before now, but it sure seems rushed.
> Please cross your fingers for me! I’m waiting to hear back if I got approved for an apartment to move into this week!


From this and the timeline of your affair in an earlier post it looks like your husband knew about your affair (or strongly suspected) a lot sooner than you thought. Did his signing up on these apps happen to coincide with the last time you had sex with your AP?


----------



## bandit.45

Justlost are you doing any grieving of losing the marriage? 

You seem very upbeat about it.


----------



## justlost891

TDSC60 said:


> From this and the timeline of your affair in an earlier post it looks like your husband knew about your affair (or strongly suspected) a lot sooner than you thought. Did his signing up on these apps happen to coincide with the last time you had sex with your AP?


No, it doesn’t. It was a couple of months after that.


----------



## justlost891

bandit.45 said:


> Justlost are you doing any grieving of losing the marriage?
> 
> You seem very upbeat about it.


I’m trying to stay positive through this whole thing. I’m all by myself and I can’t allow for the negative emotions to take over. I know I should allow for a grieving period but I can’t afford to lose focus on getting my life back on track


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Just thinkin' and prayin' for ya. Hope you have some peace in the coming days.


----------



## jlg07

I wish this thread was required reading for ANYONE who was contemplating cheating on their spouse. They could really see the pain and damage that it causes everyone involved.


----------



## farsidejunky

justlost891 said:


> I’m trying to stay positive through this whole thing. I’m all by myself and I can’t allow for the negative emotions to take over. I know I should allow for a grieving period but I can’t afford to lose focus on getting my life back on track


Grieving is normal for this.

You SHOULD grieve. Don't fall into the trap of keeping yourself too busy to feel the pain. It is just another form of rug sweeping.

Additionally, there is ALWAYS a lesson in pain. Avoiding the pain causes you to miss the lesson. 

Take advantage of that which life has given you...even if it hurts. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Taxman

I have to hand it to you for trying to get past this and get your life on track. Be aware that you are white knuckling a lot of this. It's going to hit you sooner or later. I do not think this roller coaster that both of you are riding at this time has yet come to a full stop.


----------



## justlost891

Taxman said:


> I have to hand it to you for trying to get past this and get your life on track. Be aware that you are white knuckling a lot of this. It's going to hit you sooner or later. I do not think this roller coaster that both of you are riding at this time has yet come to a full stop.


I cannot assume this is the end of it, I’m sure there’s much more still to come, but that is why I need to focus on putting myself in a position where I won’t have to worry both about my personal and financial issues. There are some things I need to ensure are running without my full attention when the rollercoaster decides to make a turn


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## Taxman

I am glad to hear it. The 30's can be a turbulent time in a marriage. That is the time where you are seeing the definite ebb and flow to your life. It is where most career changes occur and lives solidify. It is where I wandered as well. It has devastating effects. What I will say, is that both of you seem rather reactionary. You to loneliness, and boredom, him from anger and revenge. Give you odds that it is out of your systems. That is my best rationale for his explosion.


----------



## Wazza

justlost891 said:


> I cannot assume this is the end of it, I’m sure there’s much more still to come, but that is why I need to focus on putting myself in a position where I won’t have to worry both about my personal and financial issues. There are some things I need to ensure are running without my full attention when the rollercoaster decides to make a turn


One aspect of the roller coaster concerns your emotions. They have to be dealt with. You are right to move forward. Just don’t suppress to the point where things remain unresolved.


----------



## justlost891

So yeah... last night I woke up in the middle of the night crying. Awesome. When I was driving home last night I thought the car behind me was my husband and his gf, so I’m sure that triggered my bad dream. It was me seeing them together and I kept trying to hurt her, but he would always jump in on her behalf. And then I woke up. That really threw me off balance and I’m trying to get through the day


----------



## Kamstel

I’m sorry, but you reap what you sow.

The only cure for this his time and IC.
It seems as if you have had a very easy time on the roller coaster of emotion so far. I think it is about to get worse.

Good luck


----------



## bandit.45

justlost891 said:


> So yeah... last night I woke up in the middle of the night crying. Awesome. When I was driving home last night I thought the car behind me was my husband and his gf, so I’m sure that triggered my bad dream. It was me seeing them together and I kept trying to hurt her, but he would always jump in on her behalf. And then I woke up. That really threw me off balance and I’m trying to get through the day


Cheating is just a sh*tty deal isn't it...no matter who is the culprit? I'm sorry you are going through this, but you will get through it. It takes time. But as a woman you will bounce back quickly.

Now just take the pain and turn it into wisdom.


----------



## Jasel

Hang in there. You made some bad decisions but it sounds like you're trying to learn from them. Eventually it will get better.


----------



## Kamstel

Have you reached out to the other man yet since you moved out?


----------



## justlost891

Kamstel said:


> Have you reached out to the other man yet since you moved out?


No, since DDay I have blocked him on all accounts that I had contact on. I’ve also changed my phone number, for other reasons, so he can’t get it either


----------



## sokillme

justlost891 said:


> So yeah... last night I woke up in the middle of the night crying. Awesome. When I was driving home last night I thought the car behind me was my husband and his gf, so I’m sure that triggered my bad dream. It was me seeing them together and I kept trying to hurt her, but he would always jump in on her behalf. And then I woke up. That really threw me off balance and I’m trying to get through the day


Use this. This is what you do to a person when you cheat. Your husband probably even now has some of this going on, even if he was cheating too. The pain you are feeling is why you don't do it. Not all pain is bad by the way, unfortunately you didn't learn this lesson in a much easier way when you were younger, but once you learn it it will make you much deeper as a person. So yes it's normal to feel this pain, and in your case remember it. You will appreciate relationships on a different level. Assuming you learn the right lessons. Think of it like working out. You are working on your moral compass, the pain you are experience, the triggers are what everyone goes through so you never want to be the person causing this kind of pain. 

By the way you will get over this and there will be a time where this won't bother you the way it does now. You will miss your ex husband but probably you will feel bad about how it ended and how you contributed to that. Again that is a good thing, it means you learned and appreciated why it's important to make good choices. That will set you up for a better more healthier you and a more healthy relationship.


----------



## justlost891

Hey guys, I wanted to let you know that I was finally able to speak with my husband today regarding the separation of our -few- assets. It was a rather amicable conversation and we were able to come to an agreement. I will be setting up the move of the furniture I will be taking and then we’ll try and sort out the divorce as soon as possible.


----------



## Wazza

justlost891 said:


> Hey guys, I wanted to let you know that I was finally able to speak with my husband today regarding the separation of our -few- assets. It was a rather amicable conversation and we were able to come to an agreement. I will be setting up the move of the furniture I will be taking and then we’ll try and sort out the divorce as soon as possible.


Glad it was amicable


----------



## ABHale

I hope everything goes well for you Justlost. 

Keep you head on straight and get through this. Find out how and why this happened so you can prevent this in the future. 

I really don’t think you are a bad person like some of the WWs on here. I think you made a really bad choice but unlike others you owned your mistake. 

You will find love again and I hope it’s not to far down the road for you.


----------



## justlost891

Question - I need some insight please. If my husband feels like he is right in his actions (getting this new girlfriend) then why would he lie to me about going on a work trip for the weekend when he’s attending a graduation ceremony for this woman’s sister? The only reason I know this is because I still get alerts for the credit card use and I see he bought flowers at SDSU, besides the hotel room he paid for in that city. I don’t get it, why lie?


----------



## stro

justlost891 said:


> Question - I need some insight please. If my husband feels like he is right in his actions (getting this new girlfriend) then why would he lie to me about going on a work trip for the weekend when he’s attending a graduation ceremony for this woman’s sister? The only reason I know this is because I still get alerts for the credit card use and I see he bought flowers at SDSU, besides the hotel room he paid for in that city. I don’t get it, why lie?


 maybe he doesn’t want to irritate you and risk you making the divorce more contentious?


----------



## justlost891

I thought so but it is a huge difference from his previous statements of saying how I put myself in this situation and he doesn’t need to hide anything because we’re not married anymore, just on paper. He’s been delighted to show how much of a moral high ground he has over me, and this doesn’t seem to fit the bill. I don’t know...


----------



## Cynthia

If you are going to work through this and heal, you are also going to have to stop wondering about your stbx. He doesn't have to tell you anything. He has his reasons for lying, but that shouldn't have an impact on you. You are divorcing and you don't have any children. There should be no contact other than what pertains to the divorce. Other than that, stop wondering and refocus your attention to your plan for how you are going to learn from this and grow as a person.

Focus on what is good and right and move forward. If you are focused on trying to figure him out, you are looking backwards. It's time to look forwards and to forming a framework for your belief system and how you are going to live by it.



justlost891 said:


> I thought so but it is a huge difference from his previous statements of saying how I put myself in this situation and he doesn’t need to hide anything because we’re not married anymore, just on paper. He’s been delighted to show how much of a moral high ground he has over me, and this doesn’t seem to fit the bill. I don’t know...


----------



## Cynthia

@justlost891 People do bad things. All of us do. Somethings are worse than others. You are suffering deeply due to a bad thing you did. I get that. I have suffered from the consequences of some bad things I've done as well.

One thing I know is that trying to analyze the other person involved doesn't help me to learn what I'm personally responsible for and what my direction should be. The best way for you to move forward is to move away from your relationship with your estranged husband. You are divorcing. You are not longer in relationship, except for the legal process that is left. Your husband is gone. Trying to figure him out is an exercise in futility. It won't help you heal, grow, or move forward.

When you find yourself thinking about him, stop! Take hold of that thought and let it pass. Let it go. Replace it with something entirely different. Something that is about your here and now. Something that helps you to gain strength and power over you thinking and your life. Get control of your thought life. He should rarely enter your thoughts now. I understand those thoughts seem to be constant as you obsess over the whole situation and try to understand it, but what you should be trying to understand is what you believe and how you are going to live according to what you believe now, not what he believes and what his motivations are.


----------



## TDSC60

justlost891 said:


> Question - I need some insight please. If my husband feels like he is right in his actions (getting this new girlfriend) then why would he lie to me about going on a work trip for the weekend when he’s attending a graduation ceremony for this woman’s sister? The only reason I know this is because I still get alerts for the credit card use and I see he bought flowers at SDSU, besides the hotel room he paid for in that city. I don’t get it, why lie?


Maybe he feels that you lost all access to his life when you first started stepping outside the marriage.

Maybe he thought you would be hurt and just didn't want to cause you pain. (one of your own excuses for lies you told him if I recall).

Maybe he didn't want the divorce to become contentious.

Maybe he thinks you no longer deserve to be kept up to date on his life and what he is doing.

Speculation is just that. SWAG. Scientific Wild Ass Guess. No one knows but him.


----------



## Lostinthought61

justlost891 said:


> I thought so but it is a huge difference from his previous statements of saying how I put myself in this situation and he doesn’t need to hide anything because we’re not married anymore, just on paper. He’s been delighted to show how much of a moral high ground he has over me, and this doesn’t seem to fit the bill. I don’t know...


nope nope his morality is shot to hell, and is feeling guilty and trying to mask it...i would take snap shot of what he purchased send it too him....then send him a picture of a black kettle.


----------



## Kamstel

Are there any joint accounts still open???? You might want to close them


----------



## aine

justlost891 said:


> I thought so but it is a huge difference from his previous statements of saying how I put myself in this situation and he doesn’t need to hide anything because we’re not married anymore, just on paper. He’s been delighted to show how much of a moral high ground he has over me, and this doesn’t seem to fit the bill. I don’t know...


He probably also wants to hurt you the way you hurt him. This is human nature.


----------



## stro

Lostinthought61 said:


> justlost891 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought so but it is a huge difference from his previous statements of saying how I put myself in this situation and he doesn’t need to hide anything because we’re not married anymore, just on paper. He’s been delighted to show how much of a moral high ground he has over me, and this doesn’t seem to fit the bill. I don’t know...
> 
> 
> 
> go.
> 
> nope nope his morality is shot to hell, and is feeling guilty and trying to mask it...i would take snap shot of what he purchased send it too him....then send him a picture of a black kettle.
Click to expand...

I don’t think the OP is in any position to take the moral high ground or even the moral level ground. He is right, their marriage is over. It only exists on paper. He is moving on. She should to. Engaging in back and forth about his current whereabouts and questioning who he is seeing only sets her back and makes her seem like she can’t let go.


----------



## Lostinthought61

stro said:


> I don’t think the OP is in any position to take the moral high ground or even the moral level ground. He is right, their marriage is over. It only exists on paper. He is moving on. She should to. Engaging in back and forth about his current whereabouts and questioning who he is seeing only sets her back and makes her seem like she can’t let go.


it has nothing to do with moral ground here it is has everything to do with hypocrisy, the context of sneakiness and saying one thing while doing something is a clear demonstration of hypocrisy and that is what i am calling out.


----------



## Adelais

smi11ie said:


> Just follow 2 rules and you should be ok.
> 
> 1) Don’t have sexual contact with other people while you are in a relationship.
> 
> 2) Don’t have sexual contact with people who are in a relationship.


Since sexual affairs usually start as emotional affairs, just like happened in this case, I'd renumber them as:

1) Don't become emotionally attached to people of the opposite sex.

2) If you are single, don't form emotional attachments with married people of the opposite sex.

3) Your #1

4) Your #2


----------



## Adelais

@justlost891 I'm sorry you are having nightmares of him defending other women. Your husband might be having similar ones.

However, since the revelation that your STBXH has been trolling dating sites for a year, it could be that he used your affair as his excuse to end the marriage and get on with his dating life.

Be glad you are done with the jerk, and next time, don't let yourself get close and form an emotional bond with a man, then have sex with him. Become a stronger person of impeccable integrity, and find yourself a man who has the same, and be happy.


----------



## ABHale

justlost891 said:


> Question - I need some insight please. If my husband feels like he is right in his actions (getting this new girlfriend) then why would he lie to me about going on a work trip for the weekend when he’s attending a graduation ceremony for this woman’s sister? The only reason I know this is because I still get alerts for the credit card use and I see he bought flowers at SDSU, besides the hotel room he paid for in that city. I don’t get it, why lie?


Maybe to keep you from going off on her again. 

Does it really matter? You need to star focusing on you and your future. Your husband has made it clear he is not going to stay in the marriage. 

Read the 180 and start to detach. Sorry to be so blunt but you have to stop. Your just going to make yourself unhappy tracking what he’s doing. 

Set things up to where your not getting notified when the credit card is used. 

Also separate accounts and cancel any joint cards. That way you won’t be having to pay for his spending on the OW.


----------



## Taxman

Emotions are in flux now. He is treating his new relationship like a revenge affair. The lying is just a component. Expect this GF to be history sooner rather than later. I am not saying that R is in your immediate future, but the responses you are getting from him say that there are changes in the attitude. Hold tight. This isn’t over.


----------



## justlost891

Thank you everyone for your advice. You and my loved ones are a true support to me in this time. I am moving my furniture today, so hopefully that will help restarting my life.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Justlost,

There is anicent Japanese philosophy called Wabi-Sabi, it means the art of finding beauty in imperfection and profundity in nature, of accepting the natural cycle of growth, decay and death. Its simple, slow and uncluttered- and it reveres authenticity above all. 

They are the imperfection of character, of the lines on our faces, the cracks in our soul, we patch what we can, we forgive what we can, we apologize where we can and in the end we accept the rest.


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## Pepe1970

justlost891 said:


> Question - I need some insight please. If my husband feels like he is right in his actions (getting this new girlfriend) then why would he lie to me about going on a work trip for the weekend when he’s attending a graduation ceremony for this woman’s sister? The only reason I know this is because I still get alerts for the credit card use and I see he bought flowers at SDSU, besides the hotel room he paid for in that city. I don’t get it, why lie?


My guess, as man. He's still care for you. 
Besides, at this point it doesn't matter if he lies or be honest.
Does it?

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## justlost891

Taxman said:


> Expect this GF to be history sooner rather than later.


I don’t know about that... he wouldn’t be going to a graduation ceremony and probably meet the family if that was the case


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## Dragan Jovanovic

How is it going?


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## Lillotta83

I was cheated on by my husband many years ago, he had three one nighters when he would travel out of town. He kept it secret for over 10 years. I found out from a family member who had heard something and gave me the heads up. Of course he denied it for about a month. 

We were not speaking much during the time of his denial. When he finally confessed my word fell apart, we were only for 2 1/2 years when he cheated the first time. Our life has never been the same since. I chose to stay and try to work on us. He promised to be a better husband and father to our two little girls. He gave up drinking and swore he would do whatever it took to make it up to me. 

After 10 years he worked out of town often and I started catching him keeping things from me and I would catch him in a lie, dumb stuff. I finally had enough of it. I told him I was done, I wast going to live like that any more and we needed to go to counciling. We never went to counciling when it all came out years before. The counciling really helped him open up to me and he confessed he had been drinking again while out of town again. Promised he had not cheated anymore and we are able to talk about the issues. It's mostly me venting to him about how it has made me feel. Unless you have been cheated on you will never know the hurt you inflicted on him
I'm not saying we are great, this is something that I deal with every day. My life will never be what it should have been. I dont look at my husband the same way as I used to. There are days I dont even like to look at him. It's not just the sexual act that hurts. It's the many years of lies he told me. I question all those years he lied, cheated and hid things from me. What is real and what wasn't. 

Your husband needs the truth, and an explanation. Your life should now be trying everything you can to heal his heart. You did this, now you have to do the work to help him if you want a chance to be with him. No secrets, no lies, total transparency, passwords to all accounts. Calling to give him updates where you are. 

I hope you and your husband can salvage your marriage. Best of luck to you both.


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## sokillme

Lillotta83 said:


> I was cheated on by my husband many years ago, he had three one nighters when he would travel out of town. He kept it secret for over 10 years. I found out from a family member who had heard something and gave me the heads up. Of course he denied it for about a month.
> 
> We were not speaking much during the time of his denial. When he finally confessed my word fell apart, we were only for 2 1/2 years when he cheated the first time. Our life has never been the same since. I chose to stay and try to work on us. He promised to be a better husband and father to our two little girls. He gave up drinking and swore he would do whatever it took to make it up to me.
> 
> After 10 years he worked out of town often and I started catching him keeping things from me and I would catch him in a lie, dumb stuff. I finally had enough of it. I told him I was done, I wast going to live like that any more and we needed to go to counciling. We never went to counciling when it all came out years before. The counciling really helped him open up to me and he confessed he had been drinking again while out of town again. Promised he had not cheated anymore and we are able to talk about the issues. It's mostly me venting to him about how it has made me feel. Unless you have been cheated on you will never know the hurt you inflicted on him
> I'm not saying we are great, this is something that I deal with every day. My life will never be what it should have been. I dont look at my husband the same way as I used to. There are days I dont even like to look at him. It's not just the sexual act that hurts. It's the many years of lies he told me. I question all those years he lied, cheated and hid things from me. What is real and what wasn't.
> 
> Your husband needs the truth, and an explanation. Your life should now be trying everything you can to heal his heart. You did this, now you have to do the work to help him if you want a chance to be with him. No secrets, no lies, total transparency, passwords to all accounts. Calling to give him updates where you are.
> 
> I hope you and your husband can salvage your marriage. Best of luck to you both.


It's interesting that you use the word "salvage". Please come back and post on your thread so we can help you, this post is so sad.


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## NorseViking

justlost891 said:


> Both my husband and I are in our 30s and married for almost 8 years.
> We have no kids together. Here's the background story:
> 
> I don't know what to do to help him.
> He has been avoiding me like a plague, which I understand and have been trying to give him space.
> He has gone through great lengths to not see me at home -
> he goes out to dinner until late so he makes sure I am already sleeping when he comes home,
> and over the weekends he just disappears for hours at the time.
> 
> I am constantly worried about him and think something could happen to him
> and I wouldn't know it because I am trying to give him the space he needs
> and not ask where he is.
> 
> What advice would you be able to provide me at this time?


No kiddos, eh?
Just forget about him.
Give him what HE wants.
Set him FREE.
Move away so he can't run into you.
Easy peasy lemon squeezey. >


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## NorseViking

smi11ie said:


> Just follow 2 rules and you should be ok.
> 1) Don’t have sexual contact with other people while you are in a relationship.
> 2) Don’t have sexual contact with people who are in a relationship.
> It really is that simple. Who would have thought?


Also, be honest and tell EVERY new men you are a cheater and it up to them to accept it.


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## NorseViking

justlost891 said:


> I know I created this situation, but at the same time
> *I can’t just be left with nothing*
> when I worked just as hard for everything
> we have as little as it may be.


I rest my case... :grin2:
You crushed him and you want to get paid?
Amazing...


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## ConanHub

I am sorry for the destruction of your marriage.

I can't see that you should have expected any other result.

If my wife screwed another guy for months, met him again and let him stick it to her again and then became Facebook friends with the idiot, which is still continuing the affair, and I found out, I would have wrought destruction on her and the idiot to the extent of my ability.

Count yourself lucky.

You also need to learn and grow to become a better person because it doesn't seem you realize just how thoroughly you betrayed your husband in the destruction of your marriage.

If you are to have a healthy life and a healthy relationship in the future, you need to obtain some serious counseling help.


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