# Need advice on Wife's comments



## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

So here is my situation. Hopefully I can get some advice and/or interpretation on some things my wife has said recently. To give some background, we have had a pretty good marriage. We get along very well. We have had our ups and downs but mostly ups for the 8 years we've been married. We have two kids age 4 and 1. Our sex life has been good, but never fantastic. In the past she would initiate sometimes and I would others. But we did have dry spells where we could go a month and a half almost with nothing. However about 5 months ago I decided I needed to improve myself and get more out of our marriage so I picked up Dr. Laura's book "Proper Care and Feeding of Marriages." It changed me and I realized that I had not been giving here the attention she needs. I had never been a particularly touchy person, but I started hugging her a lot more, more kisses, leaving here sticky notes in the morning on her bathroom mirror with love quotes, telling her how beautiful she was. It was all truly sincere because I realized how much I was lucky to have her and my love was increasing. However I think it had the opposite effect. She started acting weird and kind of withdrew a little bit. I started talking about how we could improve our sex life and she accused me of being a sex addict. The worst part was when we were out of town for a business trip I noticed that the shower had two shower heads and joked with her about it being the perfect shower to shower together. (Side note, she will not shower with me because of body issues. We have two kids and she is very self consious of her body, but has basically been that way our whole marriage. Will not let me see her naked until she is under the covers) Anyway she told me later she started to have anxiety at the thought and told me she felt like a sex slave. About two weeks ago I initiated sex and she did it but it was very bad and she basically told me to hurry up. I could tell something was wrong and she gave me the "I don't even want to have sex with you anymore" line. OUCH! She could tell this hurt me and the next day she apologized and I told her she was right I have been smothering her. Long story short like a few nights after the comment she put something sexy on, which she hadn't done in years and you can guess what happend after that. So I feel like Im getting mixed signals. But we've only done it a few times since then.
I probably already know the answer but I am what you would call a "nice guy" and she has stated in the past that she would like me to take more of the lead and take charge, which I have been working on. I did back off and give her space and just purchased "MMSL" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy." I already feel like a new person. But anyway, is this just a matter of manning up, or what are your thoughts?


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## abandonedcompletely (Dec 21, 2011)

I don't know how much I can help, but maybe, your wife feels you were becoming more affectionate towards her (hugging, sticky notes, etc) only to get sex. That it wasn't about you really caring about her and showing her that you think of her, but for your own benefit...


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

I guess I can see that point of view. Looking back maybe I was saying nice things so much that they lost their meaning and she thought there was an ulterior motive. I was sincere but she may not have seen it that way since I was displaying somewhat new behavior.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You seriously took advice on how to be a husband from Dr. Laura????

LOL

Man I sincerely hope you didn't FUBAR the whole thing. Read the 2 books you just bought. Commit them to memory and get to work. 

For me, I got more out of MMSL. NMMNG made me feel like every guy somehow fit into a "disorder" category. I thought he was describing me until I got a ways in and realized that he wasn't.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

LOL, Working. I wanted to say the same thing


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

yeah i dont know what to say she is a very confusing woman it seems like. 

i suppose say what is on your mind and talk more


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

Ya, Dr. Laura is probably not the best way to start, haha. But Im a few chapters into MMSL and so far I think this is exactly what I and her both need.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Well maybe... these few books would help? 

His needs her needs

5 languages of love....

I know those are a few i seen tossed out as suggested reads before... maybe it could help your situation too?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Actually Dr. Laura has one of the most enlightened views on sex in marriage I have ever heard from a woman. Beyond that I believe her to be a judgmental hag.


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## ChubbieOwl (Nov 19, 2011)

Just a different idea here - if my husband wasn't a very affectionate guy and all of the sudden he started doing very romantic, out-of-character gestures, I would be wondering why. I love my husband very much and trust him to the fullest, but even part of my brain would think, what did he do wrong that he is trying to so hard make up for?? Especially if it was a sudden drastic change in behavior.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Duwa,

Speaking as a nice guy I believe that you have self diagnosed quite well. From what I have seen on this board men who put those principals into practice generally have positive results. Always makes me wonder why I do not do it. Oh wait a minute I do try but she seems to not be phased when I withdraw.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Duwa said:


> We have two kids and she is very self consious of her body, but has basically been that way our whole marriage. Will not let me see her naked until she is under the covers) Anyway she told me later she started to have anxiety at the thought and told me she felt like a sex slave. About two weeks ago I initiated sex and she did it but it was very bad and she basically told me to hurry up. I could tell something was wrong and she gave me the "I don't even want to have sex with you anymore" line. OUCH! she apologized
> I told her she was right I have been smothering her. Long story short like a few nights after the comment she put something sexy on, which she hadn't done in years and you can guess what happend after that.
> So I feel like Im getting mixed signals.
> But we've only done it a few times since then.
> is this just a matter of manning up, or what are your thoughts?


Duwa,

What you are observing has everything to do with you with your wife's feelings about herself and very little to do with you except to the extent you affect her self image.

When you make a big change like the way you ramped up your positive behavior, it disturbs her equilibruim and can have a lot more effect on than you might think. For example, she may see herself as unworthy of your new attentions and feel shame. This could also trigger negative feelings about sex that she developed in her childhood. Someone with trust issues might think you could be trying to trick them. 

But don't be put off by these negative signals. Who knows where they come from. I think common sense would dictate that all your new actions would work to improve her self image and that's what we want. In my limited experience, I have seen it take around six weeks for my wife to respond to positive actions I have begun. Sometimes I give up and quit before it gets a chance to work, especially if she is negative in a hurtful way, but I know that giving up is not working for me


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

RClawson said:


> Actually Dr. Laura has one of the most enlightened views on sex in marriage I have ever heard from a woman. Beyond that I believe her to be a judgmental hag.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I make it a point not to listen to political radio show hosts. They are insane...every last one of them. So reading their books is out of the question as well.

You sound like you have a fairly typical case of LD wife. It's the old cliche that many a man (including myself) live with. Not sure what the cure is but I feel for ya.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Duwa,

You already have part of the answer (if not the lion's share) here:

"she has stated in the past that she would like me to take more of the lead and take charge"

Be more dominant and intiate more. She may want to be (to a degree) "taken" by you!


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## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

Well, maybe you need to look at what you've been doing. Is there any way that in your attempt to be attentive that you've turned into a "Nice Guy?". What I mean by that is a guy who is putting himself into a submissive posture in order to try to make her happy. You're trying to get approval from her to say "you're being a good boy, and now, I will have sex with you because you're a good boy." That's not attractive to a woman.

Think about it. If she wants you to take charge, but to you, that means being nicer and more attentive, that may come across as clingy. 

I don't know what Dr. Laura said, but stop trying to make your wife happy. That's not your job. Your job is to make sure she's provided for, and that she's got the ability to be happy. Otherwise, she's got to figure stuff out for herself. You might be getting in your own way here. She's responsible for her own happiness. You're responsible for yours. 

When she made that comment about sex, did you just let that go? I know you were hurt, but dude! If a guy came up to you and pimp slapped you, would you just back down? Maybe you would. I don't know. But that's what you need to work on more than trying to be attentive to your wife. I don't think Dr. Laura could help you with that. Stand up for yourself. Don't run off like a little girl and then because she realized she hurt you, she apologizes. That's not a good way for her to respect you.

Back to the "good boy" thing. When you made all of these changes, were you seeking validation from your wife? Were you expecting a certain reaction from her? Or did you do it for you? Because it's not her job to validate you. You need to get that validation from other places. Like from other men. 

Women can pick up on that, and it's not good. They don't need a guy who needs them for approval, or confirmation. That makes them feel insecure in the relationship. As in, "I don't think this guy can take care of me." And they don't need you to, because you just placed them in charge anyway. They're not built that way. Some women do that because it's all they know, but it doesn't mean they're built that way. They've just been forced to adjust. That's my observation anyway. 

This could be more about you and less about her. Sorry if I came across a little harsh, but I promise I don't have any spite towards you. I'm really trying to help you.


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks for the good advice. I think it is a combination of a couple of things. 
I think she feels a does feel a little unworthy of the increased attention, and it may have triggered some negative feelings from her youth. She has a mom that has been divorced three times and is very manipulative. When my wife was very young her mom would dump all kinds of emotions and feelings on her and her two sisters which also would include sex talk which was innapropriate for her age at the time. Her mom has very negative views of men which include the standard "all men are pigs, all men are sex addicts," yadda yadda. I can't stand when her mom is around (cliche I know.), which fortunately isn't too often.
But also I think the biggest change I need to make is being more dominant and initiate more. I know I cant make her happy, she has to choose to be happy. I need to show that I am the man, the provider and protector. I think I am getting in my own way. Just need to speak my mind more when she says things like this.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Duwa said:


> I think she feels a does feel a little unworthy of the increased attention, and it may have triggered some negative feelings from her youth. She has a mom that has been divorced three times and is very manipulative. When my wife was very young her mom would dump all kinds of emotions and feelings on her and her two sisters which also would include sex talk which was innapropriate for her age at the time. Her mom has very negative views of men which include the standard "all men are pigs, all men are sex addicts," yadda yadda. I can't stand when her mom is around (cliche I know.), which fortunately isn't too often.
> But also I think the biggest change I need to make is being more dominant and initiate more. I know I cant make her happy, she has to choose to be happy. I need to show that I am the man, the provider and protector. I think I am getting in my own way. Just need to speak my mind more when she says things like this.


I think we can safely say that your wife brings some childhood issues into your marriage. This is certainly not her fault, she had no control over the actions of her parents.

You are quite correct in that you can't make your wife happy (whatever that is) but you can definitely have an effect on how she feels about herself. Be careful not to say things that detract from her self image, never underestimate the positive effect of pumping up someone who is starting at a deficit and never try to impose logic on someone who is overcome by irrationality


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I make it a point not to listen to political radio show hosts. They are insane...every last one of them. So reading their books is out of the question as well.
> 
> You sound like you have a fairly typical case of LD wife. It's the old cliche that many a man (including myself) live with. Not sure what the cure is but I feel for ya.


FYI Dr. Laura did not host a political talk show she was a licensed psychotherapist (For the record). I would not classify her as insane but she was a major beyotch. But I digress!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

_All you want me for is sex._ Can be a red flag that. She could have got the expression from a toxic friend or a man she’s in an affair with. “He only wants you for sex”. Best to snoop for a while.


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

I think what I am going to do is continue on my path of taking the lead and initiating, but what I am going to do is have a talk with her tonight and lay out all out. Tell her my thoughts and feelings on the issue and get it all out. She can make of it what she wants but she knows where I am coming from. But also tell her to open up to me and lay it all out also because I cant help what I don't know. Communication is key which is something else we can improve.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm curious about what exactly you want to say to her. Be careful here because while communication is important, explaining to her that you are trying to be more dominant is a pretty submissive thing to do. I wouldn't discuss that part. The whole point of taking the lead is that you just do it. No discussion. If you discuss it with her, you will slide into beta territory.


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

Good point. I dont want to tell her that I am taking the reigns now, so let me. I'm just going to start making plans and decisions without the "I don't know, what do you think" without having to discuss that Im doing it. I think she'll notice. I think I want to tell her my thoughts on sex and here is what I think and need and have her tell me whats on her mind.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Duwa said:


> what I am going to do is have a talk with her tonight and lay out all out. Tell her my thoughts and feelings on the issue and get it all out. She can make of it what she wants but she knows where I am coming from. But also tell her to open up to me and lay it all out also because I cant help what I don't know. Communication is key which is something else we can improve.


I would be real careful here if I were you. Sometimes one partner in a marriage can broken or immature or both. I would start by building trust and understanding before I moved on to what could be sensitive issues


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

Glad I got on here. Some good advice.


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

I guess the answer is patience and continue to show her I can be a leader. I'm only about 3 or 4 chapters into MMSL and anxious to see the results when I start implementing more.


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## Mime (Jun 20, 2012)

ChubbieOwl said:


> Just a different idea here - if my husband wasn't a very affectionate guy and all of the sudden he started doing very romantic, out-of-character gestures, I would be wondering why. I love my husband very much and trust him to the fullest, but even part of my brain would think, what did he do wrong that he is trying to so hard make up for?? Especially if it was a sudden drastic change in behavior.


Lol! Exactly what I was thinking, Owl. 

Sudden displays of affection are Big red-flags to most women.

Now I've got that song going through my head... "Things That Make You Go Hmmm".


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

Ok, so here I am a few weeks from my previous post and and very frustrated. I have read a total of five books "The five Love Languages, If only he knew, The proper care and Feeding of Marriage, MMSL, and No More Mr. Nice Guy." I think I have made great improvements on myself. I have started spending more time on my hobbies, working out, while still doing plenty of housework (Im a very clean person, so I don't do it for favors, although her love langauge is Acts of Service.) I spend a lot of time with the kids. Where I'm frustrated is that she will not make any effort to improve herself. She will not make time to read Dr. Lauras book even though I got her the print AND audio version about 4 months ago. She doesn't know I've read any of the books except Love languages and Dr. Laura's. I spend time listening to her and not trying to fix everything. I am naturally a very happy and optimistic person but have still made extra effort to always be in a good mood at home. I have not expected anything or forced anything on her, but yesterday I sent her a flirty text message from work saying "tonight we need some hot and heavy bonding." At home while making dinner she says "when you force these things on me, I just want to pull away. Why can't you just let me be my own sexual." Good grief. How am I supposed to show a little more dominance and initiative when she says stuff like that. She says she has noticed I have changed and that she really likes it, but does nothing about. I just feel taken for granted and underappreciated. What is the answer here? Do I just continue on my own path of improvement and she'll come around, or just tell here what I want? Nothing has improved in our marriage except the fact that I am happier because I choose to be that way. I realize these things take time, but it doesn't help the fact that I'm frustrated.


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

To Mime, I started showing more affection because I realized that maybe that had been lacking the last few years of our marriage. I had no hidden agenda or problems, just realized that maybe I had taken her for granted and also was remined just how much I love her and how grateful I was to have her. I do so your point of view, and can see that it may have come off that way, but I was just showing appreciation for the lovely wife I have.


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## Batman64 (Nov 25, 2011)

Keep doing what you are doing to make changes for yourself. You cannot change her or her behavior. Once your SR is above hers she will start to change things on her own.

I have been changing myself for the last 9 months now and my marriage has gotten much better. Don't let doubts get in your way of making and continuing to changes in your Alpha. Be a man and be patient all at the same time. 

I'm desperately in love with my wife and started losing the younger her to the older her that thinks she should be 50 and act like an old lady. I didn't join her on the old lady bullsh!t train. The MMSL helped me change the way I approached everything I do with my wife, business, or pleasure.

Find your balance with Alpha and Beta and you will be much happier. It's up to here whether she joins you or not. My hunch is ....she will. :smthumbup:


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## TheFamilyStone (Jun 26, 2012)

Did you ask her why she was stand offish? Did you tell her about how you had read that book and realized you could be doing more to show appreciation for her? Did you tell her that you'd be telling her she's beautiful more often? She's wondering what your motives are my dear.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Duwa said:


> Ok, so here I am a few weeks from my previous post and and very frustrated. I have read a total of five books "The five Love Languages, If only he knew, The proper care and Feeding of Marriage, MMSL, and No More Mr. Nice Guy." I think I have made great improvements on myself. I have started spending more time on my hobbies, working out, while still doing plenty of housework (Im a very clean person, so I don't do it for favors, although her love langauge is Acts of Service.) I spend a lot of time with the kids. Where I'm frustrated is that she will not make any effort to improve herself. She will not make time to read Dr. Lauras book even though I got her the print AND audio version about 4 months ago. She doesn't know I've read any of the books except Love languages and Dr. Laura's. I spend time listening to her and not trying to fix everything. I am naturally a very happy and optimistic person but have still made extra effort to always be in a good mood at home. I have not expected anything or forced anything on her, but yesterday I sent her a flirty text message from work saying "tonight we need some hot and heavy bonding." At home while making dinner she says "when you force these things on me, I just want to pull away. Why can't you just let me be my own sexual." Good grief. How am I supposed to show a little more dominance and initiative when she says stuff like that. She says she has noticed I have changed and that she really likes it, but does nothing about. I just feel taken for granted and underappreciated. What is the answer here? Do I just continue on my own path of improvement and she'll come around, or just tell here what I want? Nothing has improved in our marriage except the fact that I am happier because I choose to be that way. I realize these things take time, but it doesn't help the fact that I'm frustrated.


Your wife thinks a flirty text message is you forcing yourself on her. Wow!

How did that make you feel?

I would most certainly not play the assertive man and just pick her up and take her to the bedroom. I’d be afraid she’d start calling out rape. Seriously. I‘d be afraid to initiate anything with her.

You’ve a massive problem my friend. Talking with your wife is not going to solve it. You need to be in front of an MC to try and discover what’s really going on inside her.

I also think you need to separate and detach yourself from her. I don’t mean physically. I mean emotionally and psychologically. Sometimes we just get in too deep with the woman we love and can’t see the wood for the trees. Read Awareness by Anthony de Mello to help you detach yourself from her so you can see what’s going on and read N.U.T.s. to help you build manly type boundaries and further differentiate yourself from your wife. Sometimes we let them way too deep inside of us. That needs to change.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Duwa, any chance of sex abuse or assault in her past? Lots of red flags for it in your posts. Or an emotionally abusive mom with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality disorder?

When all logical and normal efforts fail, you are likely dealing with a person with significant psych issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Duwa (Jun 7, 2012)

Thor,
No sex abuse, although her stepdad did try to peep on her when she was changing in her room. However you hit the nail on the head with her mom. Her mom was emotionally abusive and narcissistic personality disorder. Her mom is nice on the outside, but never has a nice thing to say about anyone at all. She has even said things about me behind my back. She would say when my wife was young how bad and dirty sex was, but then go flirt with teenagers. Her mom has had two affairs and re-married the third guy twice only to leave him again. As a result of the emotional abuse when she was young she has severe body image issues. She has lost a lot of weight after having the two kids, but still not happy with herself, even though I tell her how beautiful she is. I don't know if she will ever be. She will not be naked in front of me, ever, nor has she ever. She has issues with her red hair because her mom and sisters would make fun of it when she was young. This is what I am up against. Granted she has come a long way since her childhood and has dealt with the issues well, but I know they are still there in the back of her mind and affecting her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

She needs competent therapy to deal with her issues. She probably takes your compliments as the opposite of your real meanings because she attaches such negatives to sexuality. So the more you express your desire for her and the more you tell her she is beautiful, the more it makes her uncomfortable. You probably should nt say you think she needs therapy! Perhaps couples therapy would be a safe place to start. She may need time to feel safe confronting her issues in therapy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mime (Jun 20, 2012)

Duwa said:


> To Mime, I started showing more affection because I realized that maybe that had been lacking the last few years of our marriage. I had no hidden agenda or problems, just realized that maybe I had taken her for granted and also was remined just how much I love her and how grateful I was to have her. I do so your point of view, and can see that it may have come off that way, but I was just showing appreciation for the lovely wife I have.


Yeah, I'm sure you were, Duwa. I was just playng Devil's Advocate there.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife had her kids. Her reason (in her head) for sex is now gone. For a woman, she uses sex to get a man and next to have a baby... Once she has this, she no longer has a need for sex... She does not have any of the same thoughts about sex=love that you as a man have. 

Women are not physically able to dominate men. So they evolved to be able to mentally dominate a man. She is mentally dominating you. An example of this is when you are expressing a need within your marriage, she calls you a pervert, thus making you question whether you are normal. These games are constant and her way of controlling the agenda in the marriage. That's why the Man Up books are so important, they show you how to "fight back" against this so to speak.

You need to take her on a journey over the next few months.. You have to define what you think a marriage is (a sexual relationship, a place where each person gets their needs met, a place where each person acts with purpose to meet the others needs, a place where aweome well adjusted children are developed), you have to get her to tell you whether she agrees or does not agree with what you define as a marriage. You have to make her understand that if she is not going to participate in a marrage as you define it, then she is welcome to step aside for you to find a women who would love to live in that type of blessed environment.


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