# Not really new D-day but...



## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

Been working on R from WH's work place EA. Read "Not Just Friends" and went to first session of MC. WH started reading the book and things seem to have gone downhill from there. Last night he tried to tell me it was somehow my fault because of constant criticisms from me (not true at all, I'm usually his cheerleader but if you're not stroking his ego 24/7, all he remembers is the negative), trying to compare himself to one of the WH's in the story. And I just need to stop trying to change him because I ask him to share responsibility with me...okay. He withdrew after I told him he was full of it but the damage was done. 

Tonight after reading he tells me he has one more thing to tell me. The day back at work (Monday) after I asked him to leave for the weekend (right after D day) and then let him come back home Sunday because he was begging and seemed remorseful and intent on saving our marriage. Supposedly had an epiphany. But now tells me he called his buddy to ask for help finding another job because "he was still attracted to her." Tells me that isn't what he actually felt but the easiest way to describe it to him. Elaborates that his first f-ing day back at work he "didn't miss her but missed their conversation, missed the interaction." THE FIRST DAY BACK?! Right after I let him come home and was actually warm to him to try for R? I think I might be done. I feel like I let him come home under false pretenses. Not sure if I really wanna start another rebuild. Just feel kind of empty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

DistraughfromTX, 

What I have to say, you are probably not going to like, so brace yourself and after you're initial anger, stop and think about it and see if you can't hear what I'm saying--the intent behind it. 

I realize that what you're hearing from your WH is hard to hear--I mean "This makes my EARS BLEED" hard to hear--but I want to remind you of something. Even if it is not how YOU view things and even if it's kind of messed up and unrealistic, your WH is telling you the truth of what he thinks and feels. Haven't you often thought to yourself "JUST TELL ME THE DARN TRUTH!!" and here he is telling you that he feels kind of like the WH in the story...and telling you that he was still attracted to her (OW) but he was willing to get another job for you...and telling you he missed their conversation and interaction. 

But your response to him telling you what's the truth to him, was to be defensive (it's not my fault!), to tell him his reality was invalid, to not hear him, to be really angry about what he said and how he felt.... in other words, you have taught him it really is not safe to tell you the truth!! 

Again, I'm sorry. I know that's going to sting like aftershave. But if you do want him to tell you the truth, you have to make it so that he can come to you with something stingy and still be safe. Now I'm not saying you can't be angry or that he can do just anything, but if he does TRY to be honest, and his honesty is met with "THAT'S NOT TRUE! YOU'RE IN THE DOG HOUSE FOR TELLING ME HOW YOU FEEL" then he'll stop telling you how he feels! Trust me!

Here's one suggestion. Look at the things he told you. Actually they are kind of good news! (I know--that's seems impossible, right ). Let's review: 

1) He feels like the WH from the story. Well...that's good because the folks in the story were able to sort it out and save their marriage. Maybe he's thinking "Oh that's really close! Maybe she'll understand if I let her know it was a lot like me!" He's trying to say that there were some things in the marriage before that hurt him. NOW...it may be that those things were his issue (like needing constant reassurance or attention), BUT you tell me. How do you feel when you tell me you were his cheerleader and I say back "That's not true! You criticized him constantly and never appreciated him!" You feel defensive, shut down, we're enemies and you sure don't feel like I hear you or care, right? And the idea here is for you to let him know...show him...that you care about him and love him in a real way. Well how would I show you that I cared if you said you were his constant cheerleader? Maybe I'd say it back to you "Sounds like you're saying you had to stroke his ego a lot" or I might say "Wow you sound like it was hard for you". See what I mean? That way we are ON THE SAME TEAM and I am trying to see beyond "my side of things" to hear your side. 

Okay ... he say he felt like the WH in the book. He says it felt like constant criticism. He says you tried to change him all the time. This is his statement and he's telling you his thoughts and feelings. So here are two options: 

a) That is so not true! You are nothing like the guy in the book! I never, ever criticized you and you were just way to sensitive. If you had only done what I told you and quit being so sensitive you'd see that you had a personal problem always needing ego strokes. 

OR

b) So you identify with that guy in the book? In what way? Sounds like some of the criticism you heard hurt you--is that how it felt? Wow I never thought of that. Well, it makes me sad to think you heard criticism but let me think about it because maybe the positive stuff just didn't come out of my mouth as much and the negative stuff did. Hmmm....

Now, how about the work thing? He wouldn't have had the affair if he wasn't attracted to her, at least in some way, and that doesn't just shut off overnight. So he was honest. If nothing else, when someone is honest but it really hurts, just say: "OUCH darn that hurts to hear. Thank you for telling me the real truth but I need some time because what you said was really hard!" 

Finally, he gave you some GREAT clues about what attracted him to her and what needs he had that she was meeting! He said he missed their conversation and interaction. That is what he needs. Remember when you two first met, how you used to just talk for hours and hours? You'd ask questions, he'd ask you questions, you'd be interested in him all day... He liked that. I bet you did too. But he told you right out that those were the things that she met for him, and rather than noticing the message he was telling you, you got mad and shut him down. 

Listen, I get it. I know it's really hard to be thankful to hear stuff that hurts to much. Shoot you'd have to be a saint! But if you want the truth--the real live truth--you have to make it so he's not shot with "friendly fire" and then wonder why he won't tell you the truth. Sort of be on his side, and when you do that, he'll start to be on your side because he won't feel like he is the enemy.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

I get what you're saying and the advice is really invaluable to me, so thank you for that. But I do have to say I tried for months to give him attention and conversation and I got shot down every time. It wasn't a void he had, because I offered it up time and time again, he just wanted it from other places.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

DFT,

Don't blame yourself. He was in a the fog... His brain was being chemically enhanced and he has to ween himself off of it. It is hard for cheaters to do that. I hope he is making the effort. Be strong and firm with him and set your boundaries. It seems like he is trying. Good luck to you and God bless!


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## mintypeas (Apr 17, 2013)

hello i had the same sort of thing last night my wh opened up about something and i completely lost it and i was quite evil to him. but after reading that fantastic post from affaircare i realise that i want to hear the truth even though its going to hurt me alot. he even said he just wants to be honest and open with me and i shot him down!! i cant do that as he will become too scared to tell me things and i dont want that i want him to be honest with me otherwise how can we work at r. thank you so much affaircare for making me see that i have to understand him better and work through these extremely bits that will happen. i will not give up on us and i have to control my anger when i get the truth that i always ask for. sorry for hijacking this thread but i needed to let you know that it really helped me xxxx


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Its kind of like the 5 love languages book, just cause your putting out certain vibes or comments, doesn't mean he's accepting them the way you intend. And vice versa. Sounds like your both reading from the same book, but on 2 different chapters.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

It obvious the talking to her was part of his work day habits, just like getting coffee and going to lunch.

I think if he was seeing the bigger picture here, he'd realize what he missed was no her, but that slot of time in his schedule where he would talk instead of working.

So when he got back that day, of course it felt off.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I think too hearing your spouse say they are attracted to someone else kind of hits you hard....

I know on DD#1 H kept insisiting that his EA was just a friend and then I kept saying I do not believe it then finally he admitted he was attracted to her...and it truly hits you in the gut.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

As well in regards to him just remembering the negative that is the affair fog speaking...my H did the same. They basically want to justify that their affair was okay because they had no choice because you drove them to it.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

distraughtfromtexas said:


> Been working on R from WH's work place EA. Read "Not Just Friends" and went to first session of MC. WH started reading the book and things seem to have gone downhill from there.


Seriously, that is a bad sign that he takes no accountability.



distraughtfromtexas said:


> Last night he tried to tell me it was somehow my fault…


You’re kidding? He blames you for his decisions. That’s not only cowardly but mega wrong thinking. It’s as if he fully justifies himself.



distraughtfromtexas said:


> He withdrew after I told him he was full of it but the damage was done.


In other words, he refuses to take the blame and if he can’t pin it on you he sulks. 



distraughtfromtexas said:


> But now tells me he called his buddy to ask for help finding another job because "he was still attracted to her." Tells me that isn't what he actually felt but the easiest way to describe it to him. Elaborates that his first f-ing day back at work he "didn't miss her but missed their conversation, missed the interaction."


In other words, he loves her and not you. 



distraughtfromtexas said:


> I think I might be done. I feel like I let him come home under false pretenses.


I would have to agree, regrettably. He has fallen for another woman and rejected you and oh-by-the-way, blames you for it all. Incredible. I mean, I know we men are pigs, but this takes pigdom to a whole new level.



distraughtfromtexas said:


> Not sure if I really wanna start another rebuild. Just feel kind of empty.


And why should you want to? He has betrayed you, tells you of the fact he prefers her to you and then blames you for it all. I really feel for you. I don’t mean to be funny, but stick a fork in that slab of pork- it’s well done. DFT, there is a man out there who will cherish you. Let this loser go and go find that man.

I appreciate the people here pinning a lot of this on you and telling you to change and fight for him, but I have to disagree. What about him fighting, changing or taking accountability for you? I'm not sorry to say this, but IT ISN'T YOUR FAULT. It isn't your job to woo him back to you. It's his job to be genuinely remorseful, contrite and love you and woo you back to him. 

This is not you burden to shoulder. It's his. He is the betrayer and you are the victim- not the other way around.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

DFT, I am curious to kow if you attempt reconciliation or not.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Seriously, that is a bad sign that he takes no accountability.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was pretty much my train of thought. I'm glad I'm not totally off base by reacting that way. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> DFT, I am curious to kow if you attempt reconciliation or not.


Thinking about going to our already scheduled MC appointment tomorrow before I make any sudden moves. I'll keep y'all posted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

PBGuy is spot on.

He is in the fog and blameshifting. 

My poor cousin's husband told her yesterday they were
divorcing cuz she didn't always have the laundry done.

Stick to your boundaries.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I’ve been coming here for almost two years now. The more I hear about cheaters the more I feel strongly that it’s a character flaw and not a “mistake.” People that would betray the trust of one they love and are committed to are incredibly selfish. I don’t have any data points but it appears to be a pattern of narcissism in their personality.

What are symptoms of this? Need for instant gratification. Inability to empathize. Putting their feelings above their partners. Feeling entitled to things that they want. Inability to take personal responsibility for their actions (ie blameshifting).

Your husband sounds like he fits the bill quite nicely.

I know what you’re going through. When you first hear of the cheating it is a world changing event. You have unbridled optimism for your future and your marriage. You want to believe the fairy tale, that your husband is the person you thought he was. 

The truth is, your husband is an a$$hole. He cheated on you. Now that he’s done it, he’s making it out to be your fault. He did not come 100% clean, and is not showing the actions that someone would take if they were truly remorseful.

I think the best thing you can do for yourself is to try and get yourself to a place where you love and value yourself. Until you get to that point, you will continue to accept substandard treatment from others, especially your husband. It’s something that takes time and effort. You won’t change overnight, it’s like a muscle that needs to be exercised. The more confidence and self-esteem you have, the more respect you will command from your partner, and you will no longer allow certain behaviors. Lies, trickle truth, and blameshifting being one of them. You’ll probably see other behaviors he has that show his true character that you didn’t realize before. That’s something I had to do with my wife, all the little things that didn’t seem like deal breakers suddenly showed major character flaws that I had missed previously.

Anyway, I know this is a hard time for you. I can tell you this, if you let it, it can be an amazing change in your life that will ultimately leave you more fulfilled. You are an extremely beautiful woman, and you sound like a great mom and partner. You will get through this, I promise.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

"didn't miss her but missed their conversation, missed the interaction."
This is the same problem my WH had, he really LIKED the OW. He liked talking to her, both of them, actually, as he had an online affair 16 years ago. When they reconnected after 8 months it was because he was curious as to how she was doing.

The first time it happened years ago, he was sorry to mess up the friendship they had by starting the affair and told me he thought I would have liked her myself, that he wished we could all be friends. Right, because she was so "nice", but to him, but not to me.

It is hard to hear that he still thinks she's a nice person and he blames himself for dragging her into it. I keep telling him I'm not so sure it wasn't the other way around, or at least equal, she was just more subtle and manipulative, and he was hooked. 

Funny though, he said she was the jealous type and if he commented on all the lovely women he saw on the beach when we were in FL or SC, she woudl get jealous and get mad at him. 

Meanwhile, hello! He was married to me and guess what, he was not celibate! And, she was married too, they both said at the start they were not leaving their spouses and she admitted she had sex with her H as well... go figure.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Exactly which books are you reading? Because the 180 and reconciliation have a completely different set of rules than MC and trying to work things out. I mean you're going to have to decide for yourself which boundaries are not acceptable with him breaking, like working around the EA and blame-shifting everything on you, and then come down hard and fast and stick with your decision. You can't kick him out and then change your mind because he's just going to take advantage on you in the future when you kick him out again for cheating this time and he does something extra nice for yet another chance.

I would say throwing him out was a start, but if he's not going to work with you and still wants to cake-eat and berate you for having the only boundaries in this marriage..... You're better off starting the divorce process, completely pulling away, and letting him get used to not having his safety net(you) and not having a firm grip of his next partner(her). The one thing they don't tell you in those reconciliation books is that sometimes you have to play hard ball first and not be the one to keep worrying about and working on your marriage. 

If he freaked out being out of the house for a few days, he's going to lose it living without you for 6 months to a whole year, remember you can stall the divorce process if you have to but only as the petitioner. And the one thing about male cheaters is they're less likely to leave their wives and more likely to fight for marriage because they know the OW is not going to put up with them knowing they can be cheated on themselves, or at least the statistics don't look good for cheating husbands. 

If you want some better books, just PM me and I can give you a couple more. I've got a few PDFs that are hard to find that really help you with things like pulling away and moving on. It's no trouble, I share when I can.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

The only one I've read is "Not Just Friends." He is in the middle of reading it now that I'm done.


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