# Any clues?



## divorceman (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi, I'm new here. Here is my story.

My wife is 27 and I am 32. This was my first marriage and her second.

We were married last year after being together for a couple of years. She seemed INCREDIBLY into me for all the time we were together, and I was incredibly into her. She would very occasionally complain about me being emotionally distant. I don't think I was emotionally distant as such. I always told her I loved her every day and was always there to talk about anything and support her. I did the sweet little things too. I think maybe the problem was that sometimes it felt like she demanded ALL of my attention, every ounce of it. Anything I did that even slightly drew my attention from her made her crazy and angry, and I think that perhaps wore me down a little - so, yes, maybe I did become slightly distant, but I don't think to any major degree.

Anyway, we decided that after the marriage we would move to South America (it had always been a big dream of hers, and a job opportunity came up for her). It was a big decision for me as I don't speak the language and was leaving my whole life here behind - but I wanted her to do all the things she wanted in life without being held back and, after some initial apprehension, I thought it would be a great adventure for us both. So after a lot of thought we decided to go for it.

So my wife moved out to South America soon after the honeymoon (which was fantastic). I was due to finish my contract at work here and follow her out there three months later. The distance thing was worrying me, but we kept reassuring one another with talk of how solid we were etc. For all the time she was out there, everything seemed okay. We were Skyping lots every day and sending each other lovey-dovey emails etc. She found an apartment for us and had made it all homely and put up our wedding photos on the walls. She was bombarding my facebook wall with loving messages. The time difference was a bummer as her getting-home-from-work time was my midnight, which meant our evening chats were pretty limited on weeknights, but everything seemed okay to me and were were counting down the days excitedly in our emails.

Anyway, two days before I was due to fly out to meet her, with all my bags packed and my notice handed in at work and my tenancy coming to an end on my flat, she started acting all weird out of the blue, saying how she's not sure about us etc. I became suspicious by this behaviour and asked her directly if someone else was involved, and that was when she told me she'd had an affair with a guy from work. It completely devastated me. Only three days earlier she was telling me she feeling broody and wanted my children and couldn't wait until 'our little family' was together again. I was floored. There was no 'withdrawal' from me at all, it was just like an overnight change.

Her behaviour after this became even more erratic. I told her I wanted a divorce and she begged me to reconsider, saying how she realised her behaviour had been childish and stupid and she knew nothing would ever last with this guy. I was still in so much shock that I couldn't really think straight. I think when she realised I wasn't about to crumble to her begging and fly immediately out there, she changed tact entirely, saying how she felt a real deep connection with this guy, more so than we'd ever had, and she was moving him into the apartment where we were supposed to live!

Basically, I've had to survive Christmas and New Year knowing somebody about there has essentially 'replaced' me in the life my wife and I were supposed to have. It has been so hard.

Her behaviour has been so odd. She has told me she would be the happiest woman in the world if she could have us BOTH in her life. She even asked this other guy if he would mind it if we (ie. me and my wife!) could occasionally meet up for sex (apparently they have agreed some kind of open relationship). She initially paraded this new man around on facebook (both of them being tagged in photos etc) like it was nothing! She couldn't seem to register my pain at all. She said at first that she 'didn't think I would be too bothered(????)' by the affair as she felt we weren't connected. None of it makes sense to me. I feel like I married an emotionally insecure teenager now rather than a 27-year-old woman.

Just a little back story: this is my wife's second marriage at only 27. She cheated on her first husband on a few occasions. She has pretty much hopped from man to man her whole life as she is terrified of being alone (she hopped from another man to be with me). She comes from a pretty messed up family background. She demands so much attention that I seriously doubt any mere mortal could keep up with those demands. And then she cheated on me and blamed ME for not being 'emotionally involved' enough. My whole life was invested in her and her future plans. I fail to see how I could have been more involved.

So I am getting a divorce after only seven months of marriage. My friends keep telling me that I was lucky to have 'dodged a bullet' by finding out her true nature so early on. I guess they are right but it doesn't take the pain away. My own wife - the woman who was supposed to love me above anyone else - left me completely alone and penniless and jobless and homeless and put me on the back seat for this other guy. I've had to rebuild everything from scratch here and she just replaced me almost without blinking. It just makes no sense to me.

Has anyone else has experience of this kind of behaviour? It has just left me so confused and scratching around for answers. She can be great and charming and lovely (which was what made me fall in love with her), but now I feel like there is nothing behind that charm, no empathy or true love. Everything is about her life and her goals. She seems to view relationships on what she can get out of them rather than actually loving the other person for who they are. I just can't get over how badly she has treated me with all this and wondering if anyone has any answers. I was reading a little about Narcissistic Personality Disorder and wondered if maybe she was suffering from psychological issues. How on earth does somebody just drop their supposed love for someone like that overnight?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

divorceman said:


> So I am getting a divorce after only seven months of marriage. My friends keep telling me that I was lucky to have 'dodged a bullet' by finding out her true nature so early on. I guess they are right but it doesn't take the pain away.


Your friends are right, you married a real reprobate. Consider yourself lucky and move on. She's a serial cheater and an emotionless ice burgh. This is why a future wife's (husband's) past matters. Once a cheater .......


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Divorceman
Yes there are several recent thread by men and one or two women who have been cheated within one year of marriage. So you are not alone. Not that this information is a comfort to you. 

Since your marriage is literally still in the honeymoon phase see if you can get an annulment instead of divorce. 

Also, from the backstory you gave. It must have been obvious to you that this woman had issues with relationships. Sure she was "into" you - as vigorously as she is now "into" this new dude. 

Be more careful in selecting your next relationship. This one screamed emotional instability. If a woman "needs" you to fulfill her drop her immediately. 

No one "needs" another human for fulfillment. We want someone to enhance and enrich our lives. We fulfill our lives by our own devices.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

divorceman, The stuff she did and all the interests aligning with you, it is called "BPD mirroring". Google it

Your ex-wife is a nutcase and a mentall ill human being. Pity her and move on. 

bpd mirroring - Google Search

Out of the FOG - Mirroring


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## divorceman (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks guys. Yes, she was very big on her 'needs being met'. I was always perfectly happy with her and would never have dreamed of saying my needs weren't being met or I wanted to change her in any way - I never would have married her if I wanted to change her.

But I am loving and very supportive. The whole thing just messed my head up to the degree where I've been feeling defective and insufficient. She pulled me into her delusions like that. I'm just a little more chilled out and relaxed whereas she could be very wired and in need of constant reinforcement.

In hindsight, I was a little naive to ignore some of the warning signs about her past and the things she said, but I guess I was just foolish enough to think I could change her cycle of messy relationships. She always said I was her rock and she felt so much more grounded with me than anyone else, but I guess all it needed was a little distance for that to go out of the window.

re: annulment. Sadly, it looks like UK law is a little stricter on annulment that US, so I have to wait a full year, after which I can file for divorce under Adultery.


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## jeff_r (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm sorry this has happened to you. From your writing, I am assuming you are in the UK.

My WW is an attention addict as well, so I know what you have been thru. My WW thinks she is the best thing since sliced bread....pretty...smart...loving..etc.
She also thinks that I should be thankful that I have her in my life (in the past she has told someone on FB this.).

I was also married once before, but my XW had issues with attention & her perceived attractiveness. She fell for a smooth talker in a night class she was taking. I didnt have a chance.

So I know exactly what an attention addict is.

I also know how it feels for your spouse to drop you like a sack of potatoes. My XW did this to me. She told me one day that she wanted to be separated & the next day she was eating dinner at the OM's house with his family.

But I have to say that your case it seems odd, because I do think women are a little more devious about things of this nature. Women I have know & heard stories about, they tent to really think about what they are doing...they plan it, re-think it, etc. They tend to leave emotionally before they decide to leave physically.

So, your situation seems different than the usual course of action. But when you say that she has done this before, then that explains it. 

Did you ever have any suspicions or red flags during the time that you dated? You mention that you were together for a couple of years before you married.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Do you realize how lucky that you did not have kids with this nut case ?

and remember this in your future relationships.

"If she cheats with you, she will cheat on you. "


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

The woman you loved did not exist. She has been replaced by the woman she is. She did you a favor by not continuing a charade of acting remorseful. 

Your friends are correct in that it's good you found out so early in the marriage. You are young, no children with her and you will move past this. But I know, it's still a punch in the gut. Most of here know how that feels.

Just keep reminding yourself that you chose the wrong person and next time be more careful with the warning signs. Get counseling if you need it, take care of yourself physically, and keep busy. 

I wish you the best of luck.


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## divorceman (Jan 2, 2013)

jeff_r said:


> Did you ever have any suspicions or red flags during the time that you dated? You mention that you were together for a couple of years before you married.


I had some suspicions, yes. But I think I swept them under the carpet, which seemed easy when 90% of the time she was lavishing me with so much affection I struggled to believe anything other than she was madly in love with me - I'll certainly be more cautious next time.

She once said that she believed marriages should have a 5-year 'resigning clause' to make sure each party is still happy at 5 year intervals. I thought that was a odd.

Other little things now I look back on it. She was quite untidy and I was always picking up her clothes which she would just throw on the floor. Whenever I had a go at her about it, she just said the person who it was bothering should clear it up, which I thought was very selfish.

Once time during the lead up to the wedding I went out to meet a friend down the pub for a few hours and this stuck in her mind as me 'abandoning' her during the wedding planning. I was planning like crazy for the wedding and completely involved in it all, but that one incident just stuck with her and she kept bringing it up, even though I'd completely forgotten about it in all honesty.

She said a lot of things under the guise of her strange form of 'feminism' which now seem more like pure selfishness to me. Some feminist she turned out to be, completely reliant on male attention, taking their money and their support and then casting them aside the minute they were surplus to requirement.

And when she was drunk she could be pretty crazy sometimes - I guess her true self slipped out then. On a couple of occasions when she was very drunk she lashed out and hit me - not seriously or anything, but I guess I should have walked the first time that happened. It was just like she used to get incredibly angry and resentful if she couldn't control me.

And yes, I'm English (the fruitloop ex-wife was American though).


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Frootloop?

I think she's cookoo for coco puffs. 

Yes there were many red flags. 
And for God's sake listen carefully to this:
Never, ever, not once, allow your spouse to leave for anywhere without it being thoroughly and completely discussed from all angles. Without boundaries clearly understood. And without you having veto power. 

Same for you. Same for Girl's Night Out (a weird concept to me - but I'm a dinosaur) etc.


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## divorceman (Jan 2, 2013)

badmemory said:


> The woman you loved did not exist. She has been replaced by the woman she is. She did you a favor by not continuing a charade of acting remorseful.
> 
> Your friends are correct in that it's good you found out so early in the marriage. You are young, no children with her and you will move past this. But I know, it's still a punch in the gut. Most of here know how that feels.
> 
> ...


Thanks badmemory. I'm now just at the stage of accepting that and trying to move on. I'm no longer answering her calls, and have told her anything she wants to say she can be done over email. Talking to her was allowing her to pull me into her fantasy world and I'm a little embarrassed about some of my reactions in the early stages of finding out, but that just because I was still so invested in her emotionally. The further I get away from it, the more the mist clears and I can see her for what she really is. And, yes, I had a lucky escape. Having kids with this woman would have been an absolute nightmare situation.


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## Mike11 (Aug 25, 2011)

divorceman, no talking to her, as soon as you are indifferent the better you are, she will try to feed from your attention


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Never, ever, not once, allow your spouse to leave for anywhere without it being thoroughly and completely discussed from all angles. Without boundaries clearly understood. And without you having veto power.
> 
> Same for you. Same for Girl's Night Out (a weird concept to me - but I'm a dinosaur) etc.


:iagree::iagree:

*Quoted for truth.* I'd go as far as adding "do not allow opposite sex friends into a relationship as well, including mutual friends!" The one thing I've learned around here is that a wife and a friend of yours seem to be the ones that skunk you first.


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## divorceman (Jan 2, 2013)

Mike11 said:


> divorceman, no talking to her, as soon as you are indifferent the better you are, she will try to feed from your attention


Yes, I was wondering about this. She's already made noises about 'missing London so much she's aching'. My big fear is that before long she'll get bored of this South America pipedream and try to get back here somehow. That's why I'm keen to get the divorce through asap in case she tries anything with a spouse visa through me. But post-divorce she will have a hard time getting back into the country, which is just fine by me.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

divorceman said:


> Yes, I was wondering about this. She's already made noises about 'missing London so much she's aching'. My big fear is that before long she'll get bored of this South America pipedream and try to get back here somehow. That's why I'm keen to get the divorce through asap in case she tries anything with a spouse visa through me. But post-divorce she will have a hard time getting back into the country, which is just fine by me.


Do you have to provide her with financial support for a year? 

Does she have wealth?


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Did you hand in the notice? I hope not. Start unpacking.

If she wants you she can come back, but I doubt when she does you'd want take her back.

Abandonment.


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## divorceman (Jan 2, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Do you have to provide her with financial support for a year?
> 
> Does she have wealth?


No. She's not earning a lot over there but she owes me money for some expenses I paid for out there. To be fair in that regard, she is paying me back slowly. I told her I want the payments raised in the new year - I be lying if I said it doesn't feel good to put the financial squeeze on her.


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## divorceman (Jan 2, 2013)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Did you hand in the notice? I hope not. Start unpacking.
> 
> If she wants you she can come back, but I doubt when she does you'd want take her back.
> 
> Abandonment.


Yes, there was only 2 days to go. I'd handed everything in! Luckily, I managed to find a new (lower paid) job now and a place to stay. She left me absolutely in the gutter - another thing she doesn't seem to fully appreciate.

There's no way she could ever come back, she's burned all her bridges now.


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## Batty (Dec 20, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Frootloop?
> 
> I think she's cookoo for coco puffs.
> 
> ...


Seriously? ALLOW your spouse to do something? No Girls' Night Out? You're not a dinosaur - you're potentially abusive. Controlling behavior is step one on the path to battering.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Uh, yeah...my STBXW's affairs started shortly after she began participating in GNO.

Funny, at first she was surprised, and even offended, at how many of her married girlfriends behaved on these nights. Some would go home with men they picked up, some would make out right there on the dance floor.

There are many activities that a loyal spouse can participate in, and maintain the marital boundaries. GNO is not one of them. Clubbing is not one of them. Going to bars without her husband is not one of them.

There's is nothing "controlling" about having boundaries. Unless you are a cheater, or want to cheat....


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## divorceman (Jan 2, 2013)

Batty said:


> Seriously? ALLOW your spouse to do something? No Girls' Night Out? You're not a dinosaur - you're potentially abusive. Controlling behavior is step one on the path to battering.


I'd agree with that. Even after all this crap, there is no way I'd let it affect future relationships to the point where I'd try to control a future partner like that. Either they're good enough to be trusted or they're not, and if they're not I'd ship out again and find someone else who is. I'd rather have no relationship at all than one without trust. I just have to realise that my ex was a one of the bad ones and not let it affect any future relationship with a potential good one.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Batty said:


> Seriously? ALLOW your spouse to do something? No Girls' Night Out? You're not a dinosaur - you're potentially abusive. Controlling behavior is step one on the path to battering.


Really now. He's talking from experience, what's your frame of reference?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

divorceman said:


> I'd agree with that. Even after all this crap, there is no way I'd let it affect future relationships to the point where I'd try to control a future partner like that. Either they're good enough to be trusted or they're not, and if they're not I'd ship out again and find someone else who is. I'd rather have no relationship at all than one without trust. I just have to realise that my ex was a one of the bad ones and not let it affect any future relationship with a potential good one.


*"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,"
*
Think twice before you say that. Read around here a little bit. There are betrayed spouses going through your hell for the second and in one case I read a third time! It's all about boundaries, if you didn't learn that, then you've learned nothing.


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## Hurts (Dec 30, 2012)

divorceman said:


> Hi, I'm new here. Here is my story.
> 
> My wife is 27 and I am 32. This was my first marriage and her second.
> 
> ...


My friend, you story is so close to mine. You can still read my thread, as it was exposed just days ago. My STBXW was completely into me and we were spending and having a blast at Christmas at her family's. She longed for him and communicated to him from the sacred space of her family's house. She also had a pattern and cheated before on her spouses (It was both of our's first marriage)

You are looking for reasons. You are ashamed. My two words of advice will be:

1. Look into Histrionic personality disorder. More here:
Histrionic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. Share and open it up with everyone. If you can, make her tell her parents and everyone close to her. You didn't anything wrong and feel the burnt of the whole experience. When your friends hear the full extent of your story you will know who bears all the blame. It feels un-natural, and as a fellow private guy I can get it. Tell her and your parents and family. 

We both dodged a bullet, my friend. Sometimes its better to be painfully punched in the face with the truth today than to be in a hopeless pit of pain years from now, with a kids and a house, suffocated and emasculated by your wife's manipulative ways.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

from original:
And for God's sake listen carefully to this:
Never, ever, not once, allow your spouse to leave for anywhere without it being thoroughly and completely discussed from all angles. Without boundaries clearly understood. And without you having veto power.

Same for you. Same for Girl's Night Out (a weird concept to me - but I'm a dinosaur) etc.




Batty said:


> Seriously? ALLOW your spouse to do something? No Girls' Night Out? You're not a dinosaur - you're potentially abusive. Controlling behavior is step one on the path to battering.





divorceman said:


> I'd agree with that. Even after all this crap, there is no way I'd let it affect future relationships to the point where I'd try to control a future partner like that. Either they're good enough to be trusted or they're not, and if they're not I'd ship out again and find someone else who is. I'd rather have no relationship at all than one without trust. I just have to realise that my ex was a one of the bad ones and not let it affect any future relationship with a potential good one.


my recommendation was for dialog that included a discussion of boundaries with both partners participating and agreeing to the boundaries to be observed. With veto power to both. 

Males or females that see this as controlling are asking for relationship trouble. Me? married 43 yrs. 
Path to abuse? ummm nice judgement and perhaps projection? but no. 
Secure with my self? absolutely. 
Concept of GNO? foreign. We have family night (both in and out) Foreign to you? Try it


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

divorceman said:


> She can be great and charming and lovely (which was what made me fall in love with her), but now I feel like there is nothing behind that charm, no empathy or true love. Everything is about her life and her goals. She seems to view relationships on what she can get out of them rather than actually loving the other person for who they are.


NPD? I think she's a complete sociopath. Google Antiosocial PD.
They can be very charming. They are users.
Go complete NC with her.

I'm so sorry.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

divorceman said:


> Just a little back story: this is my wife's second marriage at only 27. She cheated on her first husband on a few occasions. She has pretty much hopped from man to man her whole life as she is terrified of being alone (she hopped from another man to be with me). She comes from a pretty messed up family background. She demands so much attention that I seriously doubt any mere mortal could keep up with those demands. And then she cheated on me and blamed ME for not being 'emotionally involved' enough. My whole life was invested in her and her future plans. I fail to see how I could have been more involved.


I really sympathize with you and I don’t say this to be mean. 

But boy… you were looking for trouble. You perused marriage with a (serial?) cheating XW. You should have taken this as a clear indication of what to expect. This was like letting Bernie Madoff manage your money (assuming he was miraculously released and back in business). It is common sense really.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> Just a little back story: this is my wife's second marriage at only 27. She cheated on her first husband on a few occasions.


I am sorry you are here, but glad you found us. 

See a lawyer and ask them about an Annulment. Not a divorce, an annulment.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

divorceman said:


> Thanks guys. Yes, she was very big on her 'needs being met'. I was always perfectly happy with her and would never have dreamed of saying my needs weren't being met or I wanted to change her in any way - I never would have married her if I wanted to change her.
> 
> But I am loving and very supportive. The whole thing just messed my head up to the degree where I've been feeling defective and insufficient. She pulled me into her delusions like that. I'm just a little more chilled out and relaxed whereas she could be very wired and in need of constant reinforcement.
> 
> ...


No, it isn't! Annulment can take place at any time after a marriage in the UK, the 1 year rule only applies to divorce: https://www.gov.uk/how-to-annul-marriage/when-you-can-annul-a-marriage


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

All this talk about GNO.

Is the assumption here that GNO means going to bars and picking up on guys?

I have sisters and female friends who i go out with sometimes. We do go restaurants that also have bars usually. Have a drink or two, dinner and talk .. .talk a lot. The last thing we are interested in is meeting guys. That's a GNO. Not all GNO are out chasing men.

It's reasonable for a spouse to go out with friends sometimes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> No, it isn't! Annulment can take place at any time after a marriage in the UK, the 1 year rule only applies to divorce: https://www.gov.uk/how-to-annul-marriage/when-you-can-annul-a-marriage


I don't think he meets the criterea for annulment... unless further research shows that he can claim that her abandoning him a few weeks after the marriage counts.

1. Your marriage is not legally valid - ‘void’ marriages

You can annul a marriage if it was not legally valid in the first place, eg:
---you are closely related
---you are the same sex
---one of you was under 16
---one of you was already married or in a civil partnership

If a marriage was not legally valid, the law says that it never existed.

However, you may need legal paperwork to prove this - eg if you want to get married again.

2. Your marriage is defective - ‘voidable’ marriages

You can annul a marriage if:
---it wasn’t consummated (you haven’t had sex with the person you married since the wedding)
---you didn’t properly consent to the marriage - eg you were drunk or forced into it
---the other person had a sexually transmitted disease when you got married
---the woman was pregnant by another man when you got married

Marriages annulled for these reasons are known as ‘voidable’ marriages.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Batty, you are too funny, you made my night. Divorceman, very sorry that you are here and that you married my ex wife's younger sister. There are some very crazy American women out there, and you met one. I know that you hurt right now and that you do not understand how someone could change in such a short period of time. The short answer is "They Suck!" The long answer is make the next one your pet, not a wife. I think the idea of Western marriage is dead and has been for forty years. Just my 2 cents. I am proud of you for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and restarting your life in London. Hats off to a real MAN. If you are ever in Germany, I can show you a STUPID good time on the Czech Border. Chears, Good Luck and Good Health! David


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Bro, go buy a couple of lottery tickets. You're one lucky bastard.


And next time any sub 30 divorcee is a huge red flag, let alone a one that goes through guys like tissues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

divorceman said:


> I'd agree with that. Even after all this crap, there is no way I'd let it affect future relationships to the point where I'd try to control a future partner like that. Either they're good enough to be trusted or they're not, and if they're not I'd ship out again and find someone else who is. I'd rather have no relationship at all than one without trust. I just have to realise that my ex was a one of the bad ones and not let it affect any future relationship with a potential good one.


Famous last words. Your wife going out drinking without you never works out. After several decades, this has worked for ONE couple I know.

You have gone through all this and you still do not see that?

By the way, total trust is absurd. I'm guessing since one's heart never completely heals over this, you will finally get it.

Check these threads for how many guys have been cheated on more than once and how they still can't believe it. Married people do not keep living a single lifestyle.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Yet another long distance relationship fails, I wonder...........whats up with that?


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

divorceman said:


> I'd agree with that. Even after all this crap, there is no way I'd let it affect future relationships to the point where I'd try to control a future partner like that. Either they're good enough to be trusted or they're not, and if they're not I'd ship out again and find someone else who is. I'd rather have no relationship at all than one without trust. I just have to realise that my ex was a one of the bad ones and not let it affect any future relationship with a potential good one.


divorceman,

I suggest you start boning up on the basics of modern relationships. A good place to start would be to read "Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay and check out his website:

marriedmansexlife.com

Best of luck in the future.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

DavidWYoung said:


> I think the idea of Western marriage is dead and has been for forty years.


*divorceman*: I don't think it's dead, I just think that men aren't behaving like men anymore and women think they have a right to open their souls (or legs) for whom ever they want if they are the least bit unhappy in a relationship. And yes, this is particularly true of younger American women. But you are going to have this issue with British women and German women as well (I've spent some time in Germany and have friends). You have to pick the right person to spend your life with and you have to Man Up and not be the wussy your fourth grade teacher wanted you to be.

When you get into your next LT relationship make sure the woman you choose is comfortable with you being the lead partner in the relationship (and by that I don't mean a dominant ass hole) as per "The Married Man's Sex Life". You do this early on in the relationship and you develop clear and strong boundaries right from the beginning. You'll know pretty quickly if she is going to be bending over for another guy because she won't want to live with the boundaries.


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