# What one deserves...



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

WARNING: This post is written by an insane psycho evil random dude who's a jerk with issues, beware! :rofl:

Sorry... anyways... This is YET another issue actually, just some more self-reflection (aka thinking too much - and the missus is starting to get annoyed with me). But it's something that has plagued me for years. I have conquered a lot of my own guilt over the rather not-so-good things I've done in my youth, I regret my mistakes, but not my actions, justifying it as I knew for much of what I did, I did only what I had to do to survive. As for my mistakes, I regret them, but learnt from them, and they do not haunt me too much.

But despite all of this, I have to admit, I never believed I ever deserved anyone. At the same time I also found a hobby with women, and if they were f--kable then sure, why not, but if not, I simply enjoyed the game and led them on for reasons I already posted on another thread. Some managed to collar me but not so well, and as they got closer and closer, I kept pushing them away, which ironically it made them want me more.

There were only 3 women in my life who managed to keep me, my first, who was also my best friend. The second, who only kept me because I feared what she may do to herself if I left her, and my wife, who also became my best friend, and made me fall for her, and emotionally cheat on my second. Other women were meh, nothing to me. Even nowadays, I fun-flirt but pffft.

My wife however, has always been good to me. She can be manipulative, stubborn, demanding and sometimes spoiled but she has been loyal, loving and caring. I accept all of her no matter how much I whine, I'm committed to her for life. I will never be the one that brings up divorce unless of course I know fullheartedly it's best for her.

If I lose my business, end up in jail, or have to disappear for a long time, or lose a limb, or my sex drive... I will divorce her so she can find someone else best suited for her needs. I'm used to pain, hence due to her extremely high sex drive I also offered to her the option of outsourcing which she rejected rather harshly. Yet in a sick way though when she's nice to me I always seem to desire to make her not so nice. I just don't feel I deserve love.

Women in my life have seemed to have followed a pattern really, found me, liked me, then ended up in a rollercoaster ride from the most passionate times in their lives to utter heartbreaks and pain... and everything in between. When they are in a bliss, I destroy it for them, yet when they are in pain, I manage to sweeten them up back to square one, then lead them up back to the top, before plundging them back into darkness.

I break them down, and unfortunately, it seems I have subconsciously over the years also broken my wife's spirit. Starting with our inter-religious differences... all this "Manning UP" stuff I've done, but for the worse. She's rather weak now, dependent on me.

There was only one exception to my psycho routine... when I fell for my wife. At that time I still believed I didn't deserve her, but I was in love and I wanted to give her everything. Fast forward to nowadays, I guess I have to say it... I love her, but I'm no longer truly in love with her compared to the past.

Now it seems having my head out of the blissful cloud of being in love... my true self has come out. The trigger for my destroying the bliss is that deep inside I also can't stand it. All the lovey doveys and passion and affection I just can't stand it. Maybe I'm just never used to it, but at the same time I guess I also don't feel I deserve it.

It doesn't seem to be guilt, but I'm just too "grey", right and wrong is relative to me. It seems I don't really love myself, nor my ways, or my principles, or mentality. I proclaim to others my pride, but deep inside I know I'll always be f--ked in the head.

I don't know what to do or if there's even help, my counsellor I don't fully trust but I do have support. It's just so much a part of me now, my past and everything. The sad thing is even though my wife tries not to admit it she gets turned on by that heartless monster that I was. But meh...

But at least now others can have a glimpse at what drives some men to give rollercoaster rides.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks for sharing. That takes insight, courage, and well, balls. To admit this stuff on forum. At least you are aware of it. And admit it.

Most of us may even know someone with a similar outlook on life. I know I do. A good male friend of mine. He used to say I was his consciousness, because he didn't think he had one. I would give him heck for things he did to women he was dating.

But.. he got married this month. At 46, he finally did find someone that understood the way he "is", much like your wife.

Even if you feel you don't deserve to be loved, your wife thinks you deserve her. Enjoy that, without question.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

When pushing them away...

My first: "Stop being so dramatic! This isn't you!" 
My ex: "Don't try to tell me who I can or can not love!"
My wife: "That's not your choice to make!"

What they think I deserve is irrelevant to me for some reason. They gave me their hearts anyway, and the responsibility of taking care of them with it. To be honest when I look at my marriage, I've noticed my wife had my back against the wall quite a few times when it comes to decisions. I also suspected she got pregnant knowing full well I would never abandon her in that state and knowing my own youth that I would feel the obligation to marry her.

But that has always been a suspicion and nothing more, I can't prove it. Bah, but if I think of her as this manipulative evil biatch then I somehow feel better with myself. But then when she's so loving and affectionate and caring I can't stand it!


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> But it's something that has plagued me for years. I have conquered a lot of my own guilt over the rather not-so-good things I've done in my youth, I regret my mistakes, but not my actions, justifying it as I knew for much of what I did, I did only what I had to do to survive.
> As for my mistakes, I regret them, but learnt from them, and they do not haunt me too much.


 I am having a hard time with "regretting mistakes but NOT actions" -- can you give some example of the difference ? And this ....I did this "to survive" ? This sounds very intense, you had no choice in the matter, it would have spelled disaster if you did not "go along" with some of these actions?? Maybe you do not want to reveal all of that, but these are the questions that came to My mind anyway, your fellow "think too much" friend here ! 



> But despite all of this, I have to admit, I never believed I ever deserved anyone.


 Interesting, the good looking guy who can get all the woman swarming & take them as he pleases. This gives ME another side to the Bad Boys Random Dude! Here I thought they were all just egotistical but I guess some have some nagging insecurities as well- no matter what we see on the outside. 



> At the same time I also found a hobby with women, and if they were f--kable then sure, why not, but if not, I simply enjoyed the game and led them on for reasons I already posted on another thread. Some managed to collar me but not so well, and as they got closer and closer, I kept pushing them away, which ironically it made them want me more.


 With your last sentence here , I will always say...women are screwed up with that one! "The Game" is what gave you ''confidence" -in its own way, it reassured you -you are worth something-even if the reassurance was "plastic", even if your motives were insincere, *you had POWER over these women*, this fed your EGO , but it couldn't fullfill your heart. But all things have their season, when it is built on a falsehood, it does not fullfill the emptiness you crave. 



> Yet in a sick way though when she's nice to me I always seem to desire to make her not so nice. I just don't feel I deserve love.


 Ok, I am no therapist and I keep using this darn thread of mine , so please excuse me again, but this idea that you keep repeating ...."*I just don't feel I deserve love*"....this IS a theme in this 20 minute video on VULNERABILITY , please please please take the time to watch this Random Dude, would love to hear your comments afterwards. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...r-its-pain-its-beauty-how-vulnerable-you.html



> Women in my life have seemed to have followed a pattern really, found me, liked me, then ended up in a rollercoaster ride from the most passionate times in their lives to utter heartbreaks and pain... and everything in between. When they are in a bliss, I destroy it for them, yet when they are in pain, I manage to sweeten them up back to square one, then lead them up back to the top, before plundging them back into darkness.


 This really is very unstable behavior, but you already know this. I guess you are on the brink of wanting this to END, but you fear. Acknowledgement is huge. 



> I break them down, and unfortunately, it seems I have subconsciously over the years also broken my wife's spirit. Starting with our inter-religious differences... all this "Manning UP" stuff I've done, but for the worse. She's rather weak now, dependent on me.


 Your wife IS vulnerable with you, but YOU see it as NOTHING but pathetic weakness. This is the same that woman speaker felt on that video, she faught it too!! You need to go the way of your wife but you can't, you won't allow it, you RUN, it near suffocates you, It repulses you. 



> There was only one exception to my psycho routine... when I fell for my wife. At that time I still believed I didn't deserve her, but I was in love and I wanted to give her everything. Fast forward to nowadays, I guess I have to say it... I love her, but I'm no longer truly in love with her compared to the past.


 What exactly does "IN LOVE" mean to you.... Sexual desire? Can love even truly be acheived if we are running from our vulnerable self before others? You will find yourself doing the same with the next woman in your life, and the next -if it all falls apart with your wife . You did say this has plagued you for years. 



> Now it seems having my head out of the blissful cloud of being in love... my true self has come out. The trigger for my destroying the bliss is that deep inside I also can't stand it. All the lovey doveys and passion and affection I just can't stand it. Maybe I'm just never used to it, but at the same time I guess I also don't feel I deserve it.


 I am curious, OK, you admit you feel you don't deserve it, so you reject it automatically. I guess this makes sense to the brain, it is our auto shut down. 

Can you even IMAGINE Deserving it? And if so, would it then be beautiful to you, a receptance to it -instead of rejection and disdain for the mushy?



> It doesn't seem to be guilt, but I'm just too "grey", right and wrong is relative to me. It seems I don't really love myself, nor my ways, or my principles, or mentality. I proclaim to others my pride, but deep inside I know I'll always be f--ked in the head.


 LOVE the honestly here! But NO NO NO, one thing I am convinced in this life is.... ..a DEEP THINKER has more ability to drag him or herself out of any dark abyss than those who don't set their minds on these things. You may be a bit NUMB over all of these years, with all that habitual stuffing you have done, what you call this gray, but your HATE for being this way ....will eventually give you the courage to smash it and overcome it. Come on now , you know you are a fighter! 



> The sad thing is even though my wife tries not to admit it she gets turned on by that heartless monster that I was.


 I am not sure what to say here.... Sexual attraction can be one heck of a strange thing. 



> But at least now others can have a glimpse at what drives some men to give rollercoaster rides.


I think this is similar to women who are emotionally closed and when a man gets too close, they run, they can't handle the intensity, it really is a sort of wall, they do not feel they deserve love either, but yet they want it so bad, at the same time.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Gotdamn. You sound like my ex husband so much. Random...u need to love yourself. Hell, learn to like yourself first. Taking your wife on these roller coasters is emotionally abusive and I'm not surprised you say its broken her spirit. Trust your counselor. If you can't be honest with them, find one you can be with. Its good you're acknowledging this. Now...make a change and commit to not continuing this behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

He seems to derive some twisted pleasure from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ya, I think so too. Because its calculated. It all points to him being unhappy w himself which he needs to fix before he will ever be happy w anyone else. SimplyAmo nailed it re: vulnerability. RD views vulnerability as weakness when in fact, its true intimacy--such a beautiful thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am having a hard time with "regretting mistakes but NOT actions" -- can you give some example of the difference ? And this ....I did this "to survive" ? This sounds very intense, you had no choice in the matter, it would have spelled disaster if you did not "go along" with some of these actions?? Maybe you do not want to reveal all of that, but these are the questions that came to My mind anyway, your fellow "think too much" friend here !


Not so comfortable revealing it, past is past, what is left are the lessons only.



> Interesting, the good looking guy who can get all the woman swarming & take them as he pleases. This gives ME another side to the Bad Boys Random Dude! Here I thought they were all just egotistical but I guess some have some nagging insecurities as well- no matter what we see on the outside.


I know I'm no different from any other bloke here, I have just as much to learn about handling women then the "nice guys" here on this forum, my problems may be on the flip side, but it's just as severe as their problems. I'm not all hard all over, and I doubt any player is, no matter what they claim.



> With your last sentence here , I will always say...women are screwed up with that one! "The Game" is what gave you ''confidence" -in its own way, it reassured you -you are worth something-even if the reassurance was "plastic", even if your motives were insincere, *you had POWER over these women*, this fed your EGO , but it couldn't fullfill your heart. But all things have their season, when it is built on a falsehood, it does not fullfill the emptiness you crave.


I enjoy the power and amusement yes, it's like an addiction. In fact, the only way it seems I could ever fall for someone was to have them beat me at my own game. That's what my wife did. But fast forward to marriage, this game has to be toned down and all the negatives removed. I doubt I'll ever lose my confidence or my ability to lift her up when she's down (even if I sadly only lift up women just to plunge them back down)... but meh, I'm an ass.



> Ok, I am no therapist and I keep using this darn thread of mine , so please excuse me again, but this idea that you keep repeating ...."*I just don't feel I deserve love*"....this IS a theme in this 20 minute video on VULNERABILITY , please please please take the time to watch this Random Dude, would love to hear your comments afterwards.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...r-its-pain-its-beauty-how-vulnerable-you.html


I might watch it later tonight, the title of the video is not exactly appealing :rofl:



> This really is very unstable behavior, but you already know this. I guess you are on the brink of wanting this to END, but you fear. Acknowledgement is huge.


It's unstable and it's very cruel. At the same time this pattern seems to happen so naturally for me I don't even know I've been doing it until self-reflection.



> Your wife IS vulnerable with you, but YOU see it as NOTHING but pathetic weakness. This is the same that woman speaker felt on that video, she faught it too!! You need to go the way of your wife but you can't, you won't allow it, you RUN, it near suffocates you, It repulses you.


YES, I even wrote a whole thread about her compared to the woman who she once was. YES I see it as pathetic weakness, and not fit enough for me. I can only respect strength, that's another issue but it's very related.



> What exactly does "IN LOVE" mean to you.... Sexual desire? Can love even truly be acheived if we are running from our vulnerable self before others? You will find yourself doing the same with the next woman in your life, and the next -if it all falls apart with your wife . You did say this has plagued you for years.


When I did fall in love with my wife I was vulnerable but I was never pushed like how I am pushed today. In the past she was so damn strong, clever, and stubborn. I felt she was my equal if not more. But the most important part was that unlike today she didn't have a constant need for affection, nor was she ever so dependent. I respected her, I loved her, and was in love with her. I didn't play those games against her, I played them WITH her.

Now she's different, it's like she put on her "good girl" shoes. Meh...



> I am curious, OK, you admit you feel you don't deserve it, so you reject it automatically. I guess this makes sense to the brain, it is our auto shut down.
> 
> Can you even IMAGINE Deserving it? And if so, would it then be beautiful to you, a receptance to it -instead of rejection and disdain for the mushy?


I can imagine others deserving of it. like my wife. For me I'm also used to everything being earned not given for free and even if given for free there's a catch. And I'm used to repaying favors. When my wife is simply being nice to me, and for too long... I just can't stand it. So yes, I sabotage the marriage, and then put it back together.



> LOVE the honestly here! But NO NO NO, one thing I am convinced in this life is.... ..a DEEP THINKER has more ability to drag him or herself out of any dark abyss than those who don't set their minds on these things. You may be a bit NUMB over all of these years, with all that habitual stuffing you have done, what you call this gray, but your HATE for being this way ....will eventually give you the courage to smash it and overcome it. Come on now , you know you are a fighter!


It's difficult to fight knowledge and experience over my entire life. I always said that my only cure is a mind wipe. When I left my past life behind I thought this would be a different world to what I was used to. Unfortunately I also ended up disappointed, as it's exactly the same. Just less machetes and violent crime, more white collar and politics.

I seem to be worse then numb really, like using my empathy as a weapon. It's like I've been trained my whole life to be a bad person. Being empathic isn't being vulnerable however. Being vulnerable is just something alien to me.



> I am not sure what to say here.... Sexual attraction can be one heck of a strange thing.


Indeed!



> I think this is similar to women who are emotionally closed and when a man gets too close, they run, they can't handle the intensity, it really is a sort of wall, they do not feel they deserve love either, but yet they want it so bad, at the same time.
> I think this is similar to women who are emotionally closed and when a man gets too close, they run, they can't handle the intensity, it really is a sort of wall, they do not feel they deserve love either, but yet they want it so bad, at the same time.


Aye, it's the same issue I guess.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Random...u need to love yourself. Hell, learn to like yourself first.


I love myself in other ways, just not enough to feel deservant of love let alone accept it when it's so freely given. I don't know, meh... perhaps I do hate myself, only thing I hate more then the world really. The hate turned out to be useful in my youth, I make a mistake, I hate myself for it, beat myself over it so I won't make it again because from experience if I failed to take responsibility for it - I may not get away easy the next time.

Being vulnerable, was a mistake. Being a child I don't consider that an excuse either. When I see my daughter however it's different, I made her a promise that what I went through as a child she will never go through. To the point my wife even thinks I am spoiling her. But I became something that no person should have had to become, no way will my daughter become like me.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Have you ever thought that maybe this little "game" you and your wife play has just beaten her down? She's probably not weak, just tired.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Of course she's tired and so am I. But I'm also tired of her being too easy, too loving and too caring. It's not the game that broke her down though, it started without inter-religious crisis years ago. I ended up cheating on her during that time.

The honeymoon was ended, just like that. But I don't know if it was the inter-religious crisis that changed her fully or was it me cheating. The signs of her behaviour began as soon as she entered that blasted bible school.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BTW SA... I just watched the video/read the thread.

It's strange, I accept the ability to feel but still I am not vulnerable. I feel it but don't always act on it, I treat it like "signals" only. Perhaps it's also tied to how I view myself rather then whether to feel or not to feel. Am I beyond hope? =/

For me when they say "courage in being vulnerable" is translated in my mind as the same "courage as jumping off a cliff" =/


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Of course she's tired and so am I. But I'm also tired of her being too easy, too loving and too caring.




What would you prefer from her?



RandomDude said:


> It's not the game that broke her down though, it started without inter-religious crisis years ago. I ended up cheating on her during that time.
> 
> The honeymoon was ended, just like that. But I don't know if it was the inter-religious crisis that changed her fully or was it me cheating.


It was prob a combination of both but no doubt, when you cheated, your relationship was changed forever. She prob has resentment towards you because of that. I believe you once said it happened at a party where all your mutual friends were.

Playing ping pong with eachother's feelings is not going to make things better in the long run.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> What would you prefer from her?


Who she used to be when I first met her.



> It was prob a combination of both but no doubt, when you cheated, your relationship was changed forever. She prob has resentment towards you because of that. I believe you once said it happened at a party where all your mutual friends were.
> 
> Playing ping pong with eachother's feelings is not going to make things better in the long run.


Meh I give up... come to think of it, it's like all of our problems right now are a big tangled web. Wish we can just start again fresh. Damn... personally I think I've gone in too deep within myself, dug out and reopened my own scars.

I guess I said it didn't I? That I would divorce her if I feel it's best for her. Right now I'm stuck. We've come this far but I guess there's still not really much light at the end of the tunnel is there? Issue... nuked, issue... nuked, but then the issues go deeper and deeper and it turns out I don't think I can change even after identifying my problem.

I really don't know what to think or feel or do at this point. Think I'm just going to have another beer then go back to bed.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

There is a light at the end of the tunnel if you Both want there to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

But playing games and tit for tat isn't the way to that light. it's something you must work on TOGETHER. You must both meet halfway and leave the childish one up-manship behind.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

This thread is no game, it's not some simple "you want me, you can't have me" little tease. This is a serious issue of being unable to accept her love and pushing her away continously yet ironically desiring it when it's withdrawn and making it up to her then once it's back... unable to handle it... then pushing her away again.

Meh, it's complicated


----------



## Sameold (Aug 11, 2011)

You would divorce her if you thought it was best for her? Like you're the parent and she's the child "No, you can't play with that boy any more." That's condescending and you know better.
If you're sick or injured or whatever she can decide for herself if she wants to stand by you. She's a capable adult, after all, she chose to marry you and if she needs to she can choose to leave.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah, the old saying I've heard... "I can make my own decisions thank you"


----------



## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

It's insightful to hear this. Your attitude and behavior sound eerily like my WH's. At any rate, it's good that you're engaged in some self-reflection about these issues and considering what to do with them. At the end of the day, it is useful to consider if this is the way you want to be or not. My guess is that you're looking to change something about this situation. It's brave to be willing to confront the darkness in you honestly and to choose not to back down from dealing with it.

Just wondering if you've had a chance to talk to your wife much about this dynamic or if it's just a realization you've had about yourself that you have not communicated with her. I'm sure it would be helpful for her to hear. Surely, you know that you're being psychologically abusive in using her as a sort of emotional punching bag, but it sounds also like you do love her. Maybe if she knows this, she will find it easier to feel less beaten down emotionally and to stay strong because she will realize your treatment is less about herself than about you. I wonder if you've talked much to your counselor about why you have this tendency and why you feel that you're not deserving of her kindness and why you have a hard time being vulnerable with her.


----------

