# wth is going on with my marriage? (wife acting distant and no intimacy)



## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Interested in hearing your thoughts as to if this just sounds like a rough patch or if I need to be worried and/or what I should do.

Some background. We’ve been together 8.5 years and married for 4. We were pretty much inseparable from the start. There was no guessing or game playing like there are with some people when dating. We both made our feelings of attraction and love clear from the get go. Our love was really strong and deep. Our sex life was always great and passionate. I’ve always pleased her usually 2-3 times per session. So after about 8 months of dating we moved in together. Everything has always seemed pretty good in the relationship. We have had some financial hardships at various times but we are in a better place with that now.

Fast forward to 2019, she became pregnant with our first child. Gave birth and then experienced post partum in addition to gender disappointment. So I dealt with her extreme mood swings and frequent crying spells while learning to be a dad and take care of our son while both of us weren’t getting any sleep. It was tough but I love her and had no issue standing by her.

I think in some ways I was experiencing some post partum depression myself. It’s just a huge change in our lives to go from only focusing on each other to having every waking moment dedicated to our son. I love him and wouldn’t change that for the world though.


Maybe it’s just because of things on her mind lately, but I’ve felt this feeling of distance creeping in. Things just seem different. I can just feel it. She’s hardly ever demonstrative anymore unless I initiate a kiss or hug. She will sit on the sofa on the other side away from me just endlessly scrolling on her phone and pretty much ignoring me.

When I’ve brought it up she accuses me of doing the same and says “you can move closer if you want”. Another thing I’ve noticed is she texts me less than ever before and doesn’t use her pet names for me anymore, doesn’t say anything romantic much anymore. “I love you soooo much babe” used to be a routine thing between us, even years into the relationship.
I recently discovered she’s been taking Zoloft since December without telling me. She ran out of it and hasn’t used it the past two months and hasn’t bothered to refill the prescription. I told her I was upset that she never told me she was on this. She told me it was none of my business and that I can’t control if she wants to take something.

well since she started the Zoloft I’ve noticed a big change in her personality. Much more aggressive in arguments with me and she acts distant and like she doesn’t need me. And zero interest in sex it seems.

Our sex life has been near non existent for the past year. Maybe once a month or twice if I’m lucky. I know it’s to be expected with the baby as there is just less time and uninterrupted opportunity. But there just seems to be no interest from her ever.

During one session a few months back she told me she wouldn’t give me oral because she “just doesn’t enjoy it” yet she used to have no issue with it and I know she did it with her ex. She said she shouldn’t have to do something she doesn’t enjoy. To me I don’t even care that much about not having it as it’s not something I’ve ever been fixated on. But I wonder if her unwillingness to do it anymore signifies that she’s not as attracted to me? I’m always clean and have good hygiene for the record. I’ve also never had an issue going down on her. And what’s weird is she doesn’t seem to care if I do that either. 

Another issue is she said she doesn’t like it when I French kiss her and she prefers not kissing during sex. She says doesn’t like to get slobber on her. To me this is crazy because we’ve always kissed passionately during sex or otherwise and she never mentioned not liking it. This sparked a big fight recently because I confronted her about it. But of course it got turned around on me and I was the bad guy for “criticizing” her.

She has no interest in foreplay and seems to expect me to just get hard and do it. She makes no effort to do anything to arouse me or to try and be sexy anymore. Doesn’t wear any lingerie anymore or any cute panties. It’s really disappointing because I still feel the same about her as I did in the beginning as far as being attracted to her.

So I feel like little by little certain things we used to do have been taken away. I’ve been limited basically to missionary with no kissing and no foreplay.

As far as fidelity goes. It’s never been an issue that I know of. And I’ve not come across any signs of anything. I’ve checked her phone while she’s asleep and found nothing of note. Maybe that’s a violation of her privacy but sorry I’m going to protect my marriage. We have a son and house and there’s too much at stake to lose to not check. There’s also really no time at all for her see anyone else. If I’m at work she’s with the baby.

I’m just really confused here. Any ideas as to what the hell is going on in my marriage? Part of me has been having thoughts of “maybe I need to sell all my toys and start saving money for a place of my own” and it’s really a scary thought. I still love her and don’t want to have to leave my son and leave our life together behind.

How can I save this marriage? Couples therapy? Am I just being an asshole and need to be more understanding? Is she just depressed? I just feel really unhappy with everything.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Something definitely isn't right. From what you've said here it doesn't come off like she is cheating. It sounds like depression, medication and a lot of stress are probably major factors. It doesn't sound like something that will just fix itself. Counseling is probably in order. Have you mentioned that to her at all? Have you clearly, calmly and in a non accusatory way told her about you concern for her mental health?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Tough one to give advise on. She’s not giving you much to work with.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

It sounds like she might be suffering from depression and is maybe starting to resent you. People who are depressed will often start to associate those around them, especially their partners, with their unhappiness. Get the sense maybe you're not being enough of an asshole and are allowing her to do that.

If I was in your position I would stop worrying so much about her feelings, what she wants. And start taking the lead to try and get what you want. Next time she's on the couch, slide up to her. Tell her to put the phone down. Put something that will make her laugh on TV. Flirt with her, entertain her. Seduce her. Most importantly, don't let her depression intimidate or affect you. Let your happiness and desire wash over her instead.

There's always a chance you'll get nowhere no matter what you do. But if you want to save your marriage it's worth at least trying before you throw the towel in.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Since you’re over COVID there’s nothing stopping you from going places- right? Do have family around or trustworthy babysitters? Can you take her out for the evening and give her wine and flowers and ask her how’s she doing? No accusations... just imagine you’re a therapist trying to understand her better.

Stay strong and manly. Don’t be critical. She’s your woman and sometimes as the leader of your family you’ve got to throw her and kiddo “over your shoulder” until they recover.

Yeah, the sex may not work great for a while after a baby. Lift weights, run, cold showers, study... whatever it takes so you don’t put too much pressure on her.

She will love and respect you if you’re a bad a$$ who takes care of her when she’s struggling. Don’t overdo it and become a floor mat either though.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

She is subject to depression and is grieving. I am not saying this is all that could be going on, just that maybe it is.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Has her appearance changed? Does keep her phone private? Does she have absent time away from you?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Does she work?

As long as this isn’t cheating, best thing to do is work on yourself, work out more, fix stuff around the house (do man things), pick up a new hobby... maybe guitar.

First baby can do a number on a new mom, especially with all the rest of what’s been happening in the past year. It does sound like she may be dealing with depression on some level.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

I appreciate the good advice that’s been given so far.

I definitely agree that she seems to just be depressed. She’s off for the summer from work and if I’m at work she’s there with our son. Most of her friends live where she went to college or in other parts of the country. Her parents live in town and we see them often and they do help with our son. She definitely doesn’t go out alone, doesn’t have any guy friends, and I haven’t seen any signs of talking to somebody else via text, Facebook, or otherwise. She’s never given me a reason to not trust her before. 

She’s had some body image issues recently I guess from the baby weight. But honestly she only gained 15lbs and looks almost the same as before she was pregnant. I tell her that I think she’s as beautiful as ever and that I’m still attracted to her. But she just kind of brushes off my comments. It’s like she can’t accept a compliment from me. 

To give a little more background... 

When we first started dating 9 years ago she had just divorced a year prior. He was her college boyfriend and they had been together about 8 years. She has always said that he was verbally and emotional abusive and cheated on her. I’ve always given her the benefit of the doubt and believed that. But sometimes I wonder if she had a part in it herself. Interestingly their big issues seemed to happen around the same time frame we are now at in our relationship. 

She is extremely hypersensitive to any sort of criticism. As in I can’t suggest anything even slightly critical or I get shut down immediately and accused of being mean and having a bad tone. And I swear I’m a very reasonable person with her and I don’t raise my voice. When I do raise my voice and get pissed is when she starts with these accusations. 

She said her ex was really critical of her always and she stopped wanting to sleep with him because of it. 

That makes me wonder was he just getting shut down and accused all the time and ended up cheating because she wouldn’t be intimate just like how it’s been with me? 

We have both brought up couples therapy but money and time are always an issue. 
She told me her and her ex went to couples therapy to try and save the marriage but that he didn’t like what the therapist would say and would flip out at home about it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Some people have worked on themselves so they can provide a fair, mostly healthy relationship to their partner. Some people have not. Sounds like your wife has not. The way she reacts to any discussion or issue between you two illustrates that. 

In my opinion that's why so many relationships are unhappy. Poor relationship skills. So many people have poor skills --- coupled with a low amount of caring about their partner and how they are treating that person in different areas of relationship/connection.

I'm divorced after a 16 year marrige. After my divorce I dated but really focused more in building back my career and making an awesome home environment for my kids. 

So many people have **** relationships. 

I don't know how you are going to force any change in your wife. Some people will never be great partner material.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I appreciate the good advice that’s been given so far.
> 
> I definitely agree that *she seems to just be depressed*. She’s off for the summer from work and if I’m at work she’s there with our son. Most of her friends live where she went to college or in other parts of the country. Her parents live in town and we see them often and they do help with our son. She definitely doesn’t go out alone, doesn’t have any guy friends, and I haven’t seen any signs of talking to somebody else via text, Facebook, or otherwise. She’s never given me a reason to not trust her before.
> 
> ...


My wife never had postpartum depression, but my granddaughter had it very badly to the point it destroyed her marriage. She was/is a totally different person. So maybe your wife is suffering from that. Untreated it can go on for a long time. Not much you can do to fix that beyond telling her to seek medical care.

I always wonder with threads like this what would happen if the OP told the object of the thread the exact same things they are telling internet strangers. In this case, what happens if you tell your wife that it seems to you the relationship is the same state as her previous marriage, why is that? Tell her that her rejection of you is hurting her marriage "again". Ask her "why do you avoid contact with me?" "What have I done to piss you off?". Anytime the wife and I have had an issue, we just ask the other what is the problem? Don't stew about it, think about it, just ask immediately.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Yeah the thing is though that she has been a good partner. Her ex husband deliberately let their house go into foreclosure to **** her credit and she filed bankruptcy and worked to improve her credit so we could get a house of our own, which we did. She works hard at her job and we’ve always done a lot to help each other out in different ways. So in that respect I can’t say she’s a bad partner at all.

One thing I can’t help but think is that she really “love bombed” me in the beginning. Idk if she desperate at the time or what. But there were endless texts in the beginning about how she’s never felt the way she feels about me with anyone. How I’m the handsomest, sexiest, manliest, and kindest guy she’s ever known. How I’m her soulmate and she wants to be with me forever Etc. These messages were regular all day every day for the first few years. And me being quite the romantic myself was flattered and reciprocated. Really I had never had a girl show such an extreme level of interest in me before. If she wasn’t so beautiful I may have been more alarmed. Over the years this has died down a lot. Really our texts now are mundane and it’s rare to get even a “love you” and certainly no mention of that other stuff. Is it because she really has me now and there’s no need for any of that anymore? She says that relationships progress to something more stable and deeper which is where she feels ours is at now. That’s fine, but I’m the one left here thinking everything is kind of boring now. Is this just my ego taking a hit?


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> My wife never had postpartum depression, but my granddaughter had it very badly to the point it destroyed her marriage. She was/is a totally different person. So maybe your wife is suffering from that. Untreated it can go on for a long time. Not much you can do to fix that beyond telling her to seek medical care.
> 
> I always wonder with threads like this what would happen if the OP told the object of the thread the exact same things they are telling internet strangers. In this case, what happens if you tell your wife that it seems to you the relationship is the same state as her previous marriage, why is that? Tell her that her rejection of you is hurting her marriage "again". Ask her "why do you avoid contact with me?" "What have I done to piss you off?". Anytime the wife and I have had an issue, we just ask the other what is the problem? Don't stew about it, think about it, just ask immediately.


some good thoughts here and I do agree that it’s best to address problems head on. The thing is I have addressed a lot of these things with her. I told her flat out that I was unhappy recently and it sent her into a tailspin. She said she thought everything was fine and can’t understand why I’m not happy with her. She then lambasted me for not appreciating all the things she does for us. I told her I’m not unhappy with her specifically just how things feel drastically different in our marriage lately. I’m unhappy in the lack of communication. The lack of interest shown towards me. The lack of intimacy. She then accused me of being jealous of her paying more attention to our son. I told her that’s not the case at all. I love our son just as much as her and I help out with his care as much as possible even foregoing any of my hobbies and interests because there’s simply no time for that.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> some good thoughts here and I do agree that it’s best to address problems head on. The thing is I have addressed a lot of these things with her. I told her flat out that I was unhappy recently and it sent her into a tailspin.* She said she thought everything was fine and can’t understand why I’m not happy with her.* She then lambasted me for not appreciating all the things she does for us. I told her I’m not unhappy with her specifically just how things feel drastically different in our marriage lately. I’m unhappy in the lack of communication. The lack of interest shown towards me. The lack of intimacy. She then accused me of being jealous of her paying more attention to our son. I told her that’s not the case at all. I love our son just as much as her and I help out with his care as much as possible even foregoing any of my hobbies and interests because there’s simply no time for that.


Surely she didn't think everything is fine. She isn't sitting as far away as possible from you, sulking with her smartphone and thinks everything is fine. She knows your relationship is in trouble, and that would only add to the depression from childbirth, "gender disappointment" ( is that a real thing??!!), death of a sibling, weight gain, wondering if she is going to end up divorced again. Everything is going bad as far as she is concerned. For depressed people, everything is always black, every ray of sunshine is obscured by black clouds. And It isn't at all their fault, there is nothing they can do ( and nothing anyone else can do ) to heal their depression.

Her turning what you told her back on you is just standard redirection tactics. Jealous of her attending to your child?? Stay engaged with the discussion and let her know it needs to be solved. For your own mental health, don't abandon your hobbies and interests to cater to her and your child. You have as much right to happiness as she has to sadness. Joining her in despair won't do either of you any good.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Yes the gender disappointment thing was because she thought we were having a girl. She said she’s always pictured herself having a girl and never wanted a boy. This made her post partum even worse. And was then compounded by her sister getting pregnant immediately after she did. There was always a one-upmanship thing between them. Well her sister ended up having a girl. She is the one who passed away during childbirth. That made things even worse. She was jealous of her sister for having a girl and then has felt guilty since she passed for harboring negative feelings to her. 

I was super offended and upset by the fact that she essentially rejected our son. I told her it was unacceptable. She again turned it around and said I was being abusive. I told her we have a beautiful joyful son who is so happy to see her and have her as his mom and that he deserves her full love. I told her she needs to get over this **** or we’re going to have problems. I said I wasn’t even sure if I wanted to have another kid. And she told me she would leave me if I don’t. I said why are you putting that kind of pressure on me? And she just said she has to have a girl. 

Over the past year it improved and she bonded more with our son. But it got brought up the other day again and it’s still there apparently. She said she won’t be happy unless she has a girl. I feel like for whatever reason she resents me because we had a boy. Our son also wants to be held by me more. He always wants me more than her. Not sure if it’s some unconscious thing he senses in her on his part. But it also doesn’t help because she just says “see he doesn’t love me and only wants you”. 

I feel like I’m always in a lose/lose situation here. I just can’t win no matter what I do.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Many people end up being disinterested once the newness of the relationship eventually wears off. They can seem very engaged in the beginning, and sometimes continue that for quite awhile, but with time that often slips away.

Sounds like she was an older first-time mom? Maybe you can do gender selection next time so she won’t continue to try for a girl if she keeps having boys. And, yes, she definitely could resent you because she had a boy and not a girl.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I hate to think of the pressure an eventual daughter might have with her as a mom. Not to mention how your son will feel because it will be obvious she prefers his sister to him.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> some good thoughts here and I do agree that it’s best to address problems head on. The thing is I have addressed a lot of these things with her. I told her flat out that I was unhappy recently and it sent her into a tailspin. She said she thought everything was fine and can’t understand why I’m not happy with her. She then lambasted me for not appreciating all the things she does for us. I told her I’m not unhappy with her specifically just how things feel drastically different in our marriage lately. I’m unhappy in the lack of communication. The lack of interest shown towards me. The lack of intimacy. She then accused me of being jealous of her paying more attention to our son. I told her that’s not the case at all. I love our son just as much as her and I help out with his care as much as possible even foregoing any of my hobbies and interests because there’s simply no time for that.


If she is home alone as SAHM with you working, and has no female friends nearby to associate with, the isolation only enhances her depression. Maybe she resents that you can escape from the house to work every day. Some churches and other organizations sponsor groups of young mothers who get together for activities together. Sometimes preschools are happy to have mothers help out, which gives them an avenue to be with others in their situation.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Many people end up being disinterested once the newness of the relationship eventually wears off. They can seem very engaged in the beginning, and sometimes continue that for quite awhile, but with time that often slips away.
> 
> Sounds like she was an older first-time mom? Maybe you can do gender selection next time so she won’t continue to try for a girl if she keeps having boys. And, yes, she definitely could resent you because she had a boy and not a girl.


Yeah it’s hard to imagine based on how things started so hot and heavy that we’d ever end up at this point. Like I said previously she love bombed me so much and for so long that now it feels like I’m missing something now that that has faded.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

jjj858 said:


> Yeah it’s hard to imagine based on how things started so hot and heavy that we’d ever end up at this point. Like I said previously she love bombed me so much and for so long that now it feels like I’m missing something now that that has faded.


That often happens with women who are essentially LD. They can appear to be totally engaged for awhile but as time passes that goes away. She may have experienced that in her first marriage as well but just doesn’t want to acknowledge it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> Yes the gender disappointment thing was because she thought we were having a girl. *She said she’s always pictured herself having a girl and never wanted a boy.* This made her post partum even worse. And was then compounded by her sister getting pregnant immediately after she did. There was always a one-upmanship thing between them. Well her sister ended up having a girl. She is the one who passed away during childbirth. That made things even worse. She was jealous of her sister for having a girl and then has felt guilty since she passed for harboring negative feelings to her.
> 
> I was super offended and upset by the fact that she essentially rejected our son. I told her it was unacceptable. She again turned it around and said I was being abusive. I told her we have a beautiful joyful son who is so happy to see her and have her as his mom and that he deserves her full love. I told her she needs to get over this **** or we’re going to have problems. I said I wasn’t even sure if I wanted to have another kid. And she told me she would leave me if I don’t. I said why are you putting that kind of pressure on me? And she just said she has to have a girl.
> 
> ...


Of course he senses her dislike of HER child because of something he can't help ( his gender ). Little kids are EXPERTS at picking up on every subtle sign in a family. Don't you think this will only become more of a problem the older he gets? Have never heard of a mother not loving a baby she bore because it wasn't the gender she expected. There are tons of parents who try for girl or boy and never have anything but one gender, no big deal. Adoption is only way to guarantee the gender.

Your wife has some MAJOR issues here, I would personally worry about care your son receives from a resentful, bitter, depressed mother who didn't want him in the first place. Maybe her parents need to be made aware of what is going on.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Openminded said:


> That often happens with women who are essentially LD. They can appear to be totally engaged for awhile but as time passes that goes away. She may have experienced that in her first marriage as well but just doesn’t want to acknowledge it.


What does LD mean? And that’s an interesting point. She said she loved him a lot for the first few years and that he treated her well. She acted like he flipped a switch one day and was suddenly very different to her and said that’s when their problems began. Interestingly enough he was the one who filed for divorce also.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Of course he senses her dislike of HER child because of something he can't help ( his gender ). Little kids are EXPERTS at picking up on every subtle sign in a family. Don't you think this will only become more of a problem the older he gets? Have never heard of a mother not loving a baby she bore because it wasn't the gender she expected. There are tons of parents who try for girl or boy and never have anything but one gender, no big deal. Adoption is only way to guarantee the gender.
> 
> Your wife has some MAJOR issues here, I would personally worry about care your son receives from a resentful, bitter, depressed mother who didn't want him in the first place. Maybe her parents need to be made aware of what is going on.


I agree that it’s a major issue she has here. I’m glad someone actually agrees and has validated that I’m not crazy. I told her maybe she needs to talk to someone about this but she just says “it won’t help, I’m still going to be unhappy unless I have a girl”. It’s interesting to me that she thinks everything will just be perfect if we have a girl? One child alone has caused a huge shift in our relationship. I love the little guy with all my heart but its already been tough enough as far as not getting any sleep, no time for each other, and money.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

jjj858 said:


> What does LD mean? And that’s an interesting point. She said she loved him a lot for the first few years and that he treated her well. She acted like he flipped a switch one day and was suddenly very different to her and said that’s when their problems began. Interestingly enough he was the one who filed for divorce also.


LD = Low Drive.

They are often very interested in the beginning but eventually they aren’t. Boredom with the same person and same life and same everything is my guess for that. In other words, if she found someone new she might be engaged again for awhile but probably would at some point repeat the pattern.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She doesn’t want a son and she doesn’t appear to truly want a husband but she really, really wants a daughter. Your life and your son’s life will likely be very difficult if that happens. If she’s an older first-time mom, her clock is ticking louder and louder. And if she doesn’t do gender selection (which isn’t cheap), and just leaves it to chance, the next one could also be a boy. And the one after that. And the one after that. Being obsessed about having a potential child be exactly what you want can be expensive and time consuming — and damaging when the preference is shown so strongly.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> *I agree that it’s a major issue she has here*. I’m glad someone actually agrees and has validated that I’m not crazy. I told her maybe she needs to talk to someone about this but she just says “it won’t help, *I’m still going to be unhappy unless I have a girl”*. It’s interesting to me that she thinks everything will just be perfect if we have a girl? One child alone has caused a huge shift in our relationship. I love the little guy with all my heart but its already been tough enough as far as not getting any sleep, no time for each other, and money.


It is *THE* major issue! And whatever you do, don't father another child with her until and if this is sorted out. Maybe not much of a problem given she isn't interested in sex with you now anyway. She could have ten more boys in a row, becoming angrier with each one. She maybe blames you because the father's chromosomes determine the baby's sex. If she had a girl next, how do you think your son would be treated then? 

I believe she needs MAJOR *professional* help to fix this if it is even possible. Can her parents be of any assistance? They raised her and the sister who died, have a longer history with your wife than you. I believe you should have a conversation with them about what is going on, for benefit of their grandson.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think the one who suddenly acted very differently one day in her first marriage was likely her. Or else she just didn’t focus on how she had changed and his reaction to that change. She may not be that self-aware.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

So you guys think I shouldn’t cave to her pressure of having another kid? She has brought up IVF but she also knows it’s expensive. We haven’t even paid off the medical bills from our son yet. And going the natural route, which yeah doesn’t happen often, is risky too. I told her I worry that another boy would just make her feel even worse. 

Do you think if she has a girl she would play favorites and treat them better than our son?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

One way she could "have" a daughter is to help raise her niece for her deceased sister. Does she get along with her widowed BIL? Maybe she is thinking HE could give her a daughter? I know this sounds really fouled up thinking, but stranger things have happened. She could have a step-daughter quite easily.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

As far as talking to her parents. She is super close with her mom. I kind of feel like her parents think she can do no wrong. She was always their golden child. So while I do get along well with her mom I still feel like she would ultimately side with her daughter. I have seen her mom tell her she needs to just deal with things and toughen up and push through a hard time before. If her mom ever says anything like that she then accuses her mom of being ugly to her of course.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> So you guys think I shouldn’t cave to her pressure of having another kid? She has brought up IVF but she also knows it’s expensive. We haven’t even paid off the medical bills from our son yet. And going the natural route, which yeah doesn’t happen often, is risky too. I told her I worry that another boy would just make her feel even worse.
> 
> Do you think if she has a girl she would play favorites and treat them better than our son?


Do NOT have another child with her.

She is barely past an emotional child herself, as demonstrated with this ridiculous notion over "needing" a girl.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

jjj858 said:


> So you guys think I shouldn’t cave to her pressure of having another kid? She has brought up IVF but she also knows it’s expensive. We haven’t even paid off the medical bills from our son yet. And going the natural route, which yeah doesn’t happen often, is risky too. I told her I worry that another boy would just make her feel even worse.
> 
> Do you think if she has a girl she would play favorites and treat them better than our son?


She could do gender selection (expensive) and be guaranteed a girl or she could keep trying naturally and take the risk she could have another boy (or several boys) to resent and also resent you even more. And, yes, she is very likely to show preferential treatment to a daughter.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> One way she could "have" a daughter is to help raise her niece for her deceased sister. Does she get along with her widowed BIL? Maybe she is thinking HE could give her a daughter? I know this sounds really fouled up thinking, but stranger things have happened. She could have a step-daughter quite easily.


He lives about three hours away. What’s interesting is she has never liked her BIL. She always told me he was unaffectionate and cold towards her sister and she has always thought he was a jerk. Since her sister died she has been texting with him more and seems to have a different view of him all of a sudden. He is actually coming to town next week with the baby and leaving her here with the grandparents for a week or two so they get a good visit. I’m going to keep tabs on their interactions though for sure. I’m hoping he won’t be at my house while I’m at work or something. Again it’s weird how friendly she is with him now after acting like she hated him for years.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> So you guys think I shouldn’t cave to her pressure of having another kid? *She has brought up IVF* but she also knows it’s expensive. We haven’t even paid off the medical bills from our son yet. And going the natural route, which yeah doesn’t happen often, is risky too. I told her I worry that another boy would just make her feel even worse.
> 
> Do you think if she has a girl she would play favorites and treat them better than our son?


We had four kids. Every child deserves love and acceptance. Adding children does NOT solve any problem. You already have more than enough problems already without bringing more innocents into the home. So an emphatic YES, you must not cave to pressure from her to have another child now.

When we got to four ( all same gender btw) I got cut to stop the production line. In your shoes, would be tempted to freeze some sperm for potential IVF and get cut to be absolutely sure no accidents. It takes awhile to insure you are shooting blanks, but it is a sure fire BC once that happens. It has no effect on any other aspect, is cheap and easy.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Have you ever considered doing less?

Just shutting down all the nice things you do for her? No shoulder rubs, no words of affirmation, no killing spiders, no opening jar lids...no nothing unless it has to do with the kids. Or better yet, tell her you would kill the spider, but there is nothing in the house you want to use to do so.

Then, when she complains about it, say, "You look just like...I swear...you are the spitting image of the person who told me we only do the things we feel like. No means no...right?"

This sounds harsh, but this is what she is doing to you...you just haven't accepted it yet...and if you change nothing, nothing changes.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> He lives about three hours away. What’s interesting is she has never liked her BIL. She always told me he was unaffectionate and cold towards her sister and she has always thought he was a jerk. Since her sister died she has been texting with him more and seems to have a different view of him all of a sudden. He is actually coming to town next week with the baby and leaving her here with the grandparents for a week or two so they get a good visit. I’m going to keep tabs on their interactions though for sure. I’m hoping he won’t be at my house while I’m at work or something. Again it’s weird how friendly she is with him now after acting like she hated him for years.


Interesting that she despises in him the very same thing she is doing to you. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> He lives about three hours away. What’s interesting is she has never liked her BIL. She always told me he was unaffectionate and cold towards her sister and she has always thought he was a jerk. Since her sister died she has been texting with him more and seems to have a different view of him all of a sudden. He is actually coming to town next week with the baby and leaving her here with the grandparents for a week or two so they get a good visit. I’m going to keep tabs on their interactions though for sure. I’m hoping he won’t be at my house while I’m at work or something. Again it’s weird how friendly she is with him now after acting like she hated him for years.


Is that who she is texting from the couch as far from you as possible? That makes sense. And sometimes, a woman telling about another man to her husband will emphasize negative to make sure husband doesn't realize she is interested in someone else. She didn't just suddenly change her views about BIL. Maybe she ignotantly thinks that BIL will always father girls, and you can only make boys.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

It’s possible. I’m not there all the time either. So it’s possible she’s texting with him and then deletes things so I don’t see anything if I happen to look. She definitely texts me a lot less when apart but she says that’s just because she’s occupied with taking care of our son. 

I also wonder if BIL feels differently to my wife now. She said he was always kind of dismissive of her and never paid much mind to her or would sarcastically act like what she said was dumb for years. BIL has always thought he was smarter and funnier than everyone else. But my wife looks a lot like her sister but prettier. I wonder if he thinks she’s the closest link to his deceased wife. I’ve asked her about this and she says she just wants a relationship with her niece and that’s why she’s being nice to him and she also feels sorry for him.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

But I think something going on between them is likely a stretch right now.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Check your phone bill. That will tell you their text frequency. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> But I think something going on between them is likely a stretch right now.


Well, If she has her sights set on BIL, nothing you can do about it anyway. If she is at the EA stage now pending his arrival in town to drop his daughter with grandparents (freeing him up for other activities), nothing you can do about it. Be interesting if she decides it would be nice for your son to spend time with his cousin at grandparents, thus freeing her up of other activities too.

No use playing detective on phone bills n all that crap. If she has transferred allegiance from you to him, the ship has sailed and it ain't coming back to your port of call. 

To summarize, my suggestions are:

Under no circumstances father another child with her. If she has "moved on" already, that likely isn't an issue because she only wants girl sires so will cut you off totally. 
Install nanny-cam so you can check how things are going for your son when you aren't around.
Talk to her mom about what has been/is going on regarding her daughter and her grandson.
Hope am wrong, but the whole BIL situation may bring you a lot of heartache down the road.

Good luck.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> It’s possible. I’m not there all the time either. So it’s possible she’s texting with him and then deletes things so I don’t see anything if I happen to look. She definitely texts me a lot less when apart but she says that’s just because she’s occupied with taking care of our son.
> 
> I also wonder if BIL feels differently to my wife now. She said he was always kind of dismissive of her and never paid much mind to her or would sarcastically act like what she said was dumb for years. BIL has always thought he was smarter and funnier than everyone else. But my wife looks a lot like her sister but prettier. I wonder if he thinks she’s the closest link to his deceased wife.* I’ve asked her about this and she says she just wants a relationship with her niece and that’s why she’s being nice to him and she also feels sorry for him.*


My BS meter is off the chart with this.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

I think your wife is struggling with depression or some sort of mental illness. While she is in this frame of mind nothing you can say will help, and she will see your help as abuse and nagging in her mind, and push you away. She needs to see a Dr. Maybe go with her for support and maybe the drs can do blood tests etc, run other tests, check ups and treat the cause. The hardest part is getting your wife to agree. It seems like depression has lingered since having the baby, which will get worse if she doesn't seek help and see the dr. I feel sad for her because she will be suffering in her mind and won't even know how to help herself. That's why she needs to see a Dr who understands mental health. Wishing you both the best.

Knock, knock.
Who’s there?
Ben Dover.
Ben Dover who?
Ben Dover and I’ll give you a big surprise!


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> Yes the gender disappointment thing was because she thought we were having a girl. She said she’s always pictured herself having a girl and never wanted a boy. This made her post partum even worse. And was then compounded by her sister getting pregnant immediately after she did. There was always a one-upmanship thing between them. Well her sister ended up having a girl. She is the one who passed away during childbirth. That made things even worse. She was jealous of her sister for having a girl and then has felt guilty since she passed for harboring negative feelings to her.
> 
> I was super offended and upset by the fact that she essentially rejected our son. I told her it was unacceptable. She again turned it around and said I was being abusive. I told her we have a beautiful joyful son who is so happy to see her and have her as his mom and that he deserves her full love. I told her she needs to get over this **** or we’re going to have problems. I said I wasn’t even sure if I wanted to have another kid. And she told me she would leave me if I don’t. I said why are you putting that kind of pressure on me? And she just said she has to have a girl.
> 
> ...


Before you posted this info I would have said depression, but after you posted this I have a bad feeling it's something darker re her mental health.

Seems like she had a fairy tale notion of what her life would look like, and when reality doesn't match exactly she can't cope.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Interesting. When you say it could be something darker re: her mental health what do you think it could be?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Babies and children are exhausting sex killers. Life got real. After children, women are frequently disappointed and begin to resent their husbands (or feeling they are just one more child to feed) because they feel they're doing way more childcare and other things while their husbands are pursuing them for sex. So just take a look at the overall balance of what's going on domestically and adjust accordingly before you start thinking it's something more far-reaching. 

It's probably nothing as extreme as post-partum depression. It's being exhausted from having babies/kids. All priorities change by necessity. Men usually don't like that.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Babies and children are exhausting sex killers. Life got real. After children, women are frequently disappointed and begin to resent their husbands (or feeling they are just one more child to feed) because they feel they're doing way more childcare and other things while their husbands are pursuing them for sex. So just take a look at the overall balance of what's going on domestically and adjust accordingly before you start thinking it's something more far-reaching.
> 
> It's probably nothing as extreme as post-partum depression. It's being exhausted from having babies/kids. All priorities change by necessity. Men usually don't like that.


Women (and men) are all different. And random generalizations are just wrong.

Not *every* husband is "just one more child". I fed, diapered, and bathed my four kids nearly as much as my wife did. At night so she ( a SAHM) could get some sleep, and I went to work a 12 hour shift. My wife never resented anything! We made and raised the babies together. They were *OUR* children.

And, my wife didn't "change" her priorities one iota from having a baby. We always were and and remain a TEAM. Intimacy was and remains the pair bond that binds us together. None of four babies were exhausting "sex killers". I seriously doubt that we are in any way exceptional in that regard, we have plenty of relatives and friends whose babies were no big deal, and certainly not "exhausting sex killers". 

In OP's case his wife is pissed cuz she had a boy instead of a girl. She envies her dead sibling for having the girl baby that she wanted. Major issues way beyond her having a baby "killing" their sex life. Their sex life is the least of the issues here.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Women (and men) are all different. And random generalizations are just wrong.
> 
> Not *every* husband is "just one more child". I fed, diapered, and bathed my four kids nearly as much as my wife did. At night so she ( a SAHM) could get some sleep, and I went to work a 12 hour shift. My wife never resented anything! We made and raised the babies together. They were *OUR* children.
> 
> ...


I agree for the most part. I haven’t in any way been “another child”. I feed, change, bathe, hold, and play with my son as much as she does. I definitely pull my weight. I could understand resentment if I didn’t. But I’m definitely an involved and engaged father.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

I’m going to touch on something else because I’m curious if maybe this ties in with the current issues somehow:

We met nine years ago online. She had just divorced about a year and a half prior after being separated for a year. I had just gotten out of a three year ltr where my ex had cheated on me. I was still pretty wounded by that, but we got to talking and really hit it off and she was absolutely beautiful too.

She initially told me about her ex husband and one other guy she dated for a few months after that broke up with her. We started dating and were pretty much inseparable from the start. I had never had a relationship be so seemingly good and perfect right off the bat. She would text me constantly. She would tell me how much she loved me, how handsome and manly she thought I was, how great our sex was and how I was the only guy who has ever gotten her off, how she wanted be with me forever and get married, how she wanted to move in together soon. All this within like a month or two of dating.

A couple months later after stumbling across something on her laptop (she would let me use it to check email etc when I was over) I realized she hadn’t been truthful about her post divorce dating history. I wondered what she was hiding from me and wondered if any of these guys were still in the picture. I went through her texts while she was asleep and turns out she had gone out with about 10 different guys and slept with 5 of them including one only 10 days before we met up for the first time who had just ghosted her. Two of the guys were relationships of two to three months where it seemed like she hung out with them, slept with them really early on, and then little by little they lost interest when she pushed for more and they both broke up with her in similar ways saying they felt no spark with her. I wonder if there was a clinginess that turned them off? Was she love bombing them too maybe?

Finding out a lot of this was really hard for me to deal with. I understood that yeah it was in her past. But it was really close. It’s not like it was the distant past. I felt like I had been transparent about everything with her so she knew what she was getting with me. I started having bad retroactive jealousy from this. At the time we had some bad arguments about it. She said “if you can’t accept me for who I am maybe you need to find someone else, even thought that’s not what I want”. By this point we were months into the relationship. I was in too deep emotionally to break up over this. Yeah it bothered me but I understood it was probably irrational on my part and why ruin what seemed to be a good thing over it?

The one ten days before me bothered me most. I asked her, was I just a fall back guy? What if that guy hadn’t ghosted you? Would you have been seeing both of us at once? She claimed that she only intended to hang out with him and that she blacked out after she smoked some really strong weed he had. She said woke up and didn’t remember anything but could tell that something had happened. She said she felt taken advantage of and sick about it. So given what she told me about the circumstance I believed her. She said that since we had only messaged and briefly talked on the phone that she didn’t know how things would progress with me. She said when we finally met she knew I was different than everyone else.

Do I chalk up these flings as just post divorce rebounds and lack of self esteem or does it indicate some other issues she had/has ? Obviously I was in the wrong for going digging but am I also in the wrong to feel like she kind of misrepresented herself early on?


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I’m going to touch on something else because I’m curious if maybe this ties in with the current issues somehow:
> 
> We met nine years ago online. She had just divorced about a year and a half prior after being separated for a year. I had just gotten out of a three year ltr where my ex had cheated on me. I was still pretty wounded by that, but we got to talking and really hit it off and she was absolutely beautiful too.
> 
> ...


I blacked out or I was drunk are just excuses. She's a grown a$$ woman smoking with a dude she's hooking up with, what other possible outcome could there have been?

You keep saying you were inseparable but looking back was she just overly needy and taking up your time? Of the guys she was dating do you think you were the most financially stable? Sounds like you were the safe and stable guy.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

First off I am not a mind reader and only have your posts to go on she could be many things she could be having sex with another as in her past she seemed to use sex as a way to test people 
the fact she did not tell you the facts about her sex life I would put aside as most men seem to be proud of their number women have been thought to hide theirs and that they should be ashamed ,
you seem to be of the idea that if she was having sex with other guys in her past that she must have likes it , and that it was not the fact she may have been under a type peer pressure, 
first thing would be to have the talk , 
if the talk does not give you good feed back you need to start looking for cheating


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I’m going to touch on something else because I’m curious if maybe this ties in with the current issues somehow:
> 
> We met nine years ago online. She had just divorced about a year and a half prior after being separated for a year. I had just gotten out of a three year ltr where my ex had cheated on me. I was still pretty wounded by that, but we got to talking and really hit it off and she was absolutely beautiful too.
> 
> ...


My personal advice is to close the door on whatever happened before you and your wife started dating. Like what happens in Vegas stays there. What can either she or you do about what is past? You didn't know one another then. 

Her lying (about her past) is not uncommon, humans spend lot of effort lying about their past to enhance attractiveness to the opposite sex. For sure the reasons for her divorce aren't what she told you, she likely guilty of whatever she accused er EX of.

Anyway, was she supposed to anticipate meeting you 10 days hence? Dredging up the past is really pointless.

Focus on present and future. My biggest concern in your shoes isn't even the marriage but what is going on with your son. I would be concerned about a mother with post-partum and "gender disappointment" (can't wrap my head around that concept). Not to be too dramatic, but google Andrea Yates you will see what I mean. Mental illness can cause some horrific acts. Talk with your MIL and get some eyes on what is going on while you try making a living.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> I blacked out or I was drunk are just excuses. She's a grown a$$ woman smoking with a dude she's hooking up with, what other possible outcome could there have been?
> 
> You keep saying you were inseparable but looking back was she just overly needy and taking up your time? Of the guys she was dating do you think you were the most financially stable? Sounds like you were the safe and stable guy.


I guess I believed her on this one based on her explanation. She said she was hanging out with the guy and his friend at a bar. They went back to his place. She said the friend went to sleep and that she was there talking with this guy. He smoked a lot of weed and gave her some. She said weed has made her black out in the past and that this was really strong stuff. She said she doesn’t remember what happened and woke up in his bed the nextShe said he acted weird and like he wanted her to leave so she got dressed and left. She said when she got home something felt weird down there and she realized her tampon had been pushed up inside her. That last fact led me to conclude she must have been taken advantage of and was incapacitated to some degree. And the way she recounted it seemed painful and she cried. I told her it’s unfortunate she was taken advantage of but also that she put herself in the perfect situation for that.

Initially when I found out this guy happened less than two weeks before me I almost broke up with her. When she explained it this way I backed down.

To answer your other question. Actually no. Financially she was much more sound than me when we met. She had a career and a nice car and apartment. I was still living at home and didn’t even have a car. I was raised in a very unstable and impoverished home with a severely borderline mother. I had issues of my own with that and I was struggling to get out of the situation I was in. But she was very accepting of my situation and didn’t judge me. Where I differed from the other guys is that I think I was more open with my feelings with her. I didn’t play games and let her know pretty early on that I wanted a relationship with her and the feeling was mutual.

One thing that always bothered me was that with some of these guys the texts I saw where much more sexual in nature that anything she ever said to me. She said she felt pressured to act sexy or she thought they wouldn’t like her. I said well why where they good enough to say those things to but not me? She said she felt like she didn’t have to play things like that up with me. We didn’t even sleep together till our third or fourth date. Granted I was being cautious and didn’t push for it at first. I asked why was someone else good enough to sleep with on the first date? She said that they were pushing for it and she felt pressured. She said she was often drinking a lot and that she was easier when she was. To me I’ve always assumed these were excuses and she wanted to **** these guys.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> My personal advice is to close the door on whatever happened before you and your wife started dating. Like what happens in Vegas stays there. What can either she or you do about what is past? You didn't know one another then.
> 
> Her lying (about her past) is not uncommon, humans spend lot of effort lying about their past to enhance attractiveness to the opposite sex. For sure the reasons for her divorce aren't what she told you, she likely guilty of whatever she accused er EX of.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. It really doesn’t serve any purpose to talk about and neither one of us can change anything. It still bothers me from time to time almost on subconscious or instinctual level. What I can gather is that with me being cheating on in my previous relationship the possible presence of other suitors made me fear that I could be cheated on again. From what she showed me at the time she was not in contact with any of those guys any more and she has never done anything suspicious or sketchy that would make me think otherwise. Even knowing that it has still bothered me from time to time. It doesn’t do anything except cause a big fight if I bring anything up. We’ve been together almost ten years so at this point I have to accept that it’s irrelevant now. Some of the circumstances around certain things have always made me question what her motivations were with those other guys vs me. She tells me that she was looking for a good relationship and kept failing time again. She has always said when she found me that nobody else could compare to how she felt about me and she realized how wrong everybody else had been for her. 

In the past when I’ve brought up that these guys were just using her for sex she can’t handle that. She tells me that “oh so it couldn’t have been that I’m a likable person with good qualities that they liked?” and she tells me I wasn’t there and that I shouldn’t add my ten cents to things. I told her sorry but it really seems like you were still being used. She says it just makes her feel more stupid than she already felt when I say things like that. 

As far as my son goes. The gender thing seems to be a deeply held thing in her head. She seems to take care of him fine when I’m not there. I haven’t seen any signs of neglect or any sort of negative interaction with him. So I’m kind of left with mixed messages. On the one hand she tells me she’s disappointed we had a boy, but then she does take care of him and does act loving towards him. So I’m not sure how concerned I should still be.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It may make her feel stupid to hear that but it doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth.

Does she still have a career or did she give it up?


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Openminded said:


> It may make her feel stupid to hear that but it doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth.
> 
> Does she still have a career or did she give it up?


she still has it. We both work and contribute to the household.

what has always made me mad is she would say she’s never been into casual sex or one night stands. And my question was what the hell was that that happened five times in a row then? I know who she is since I’ve known her and now. But who was the person she was before? I guess I was always worried that past actions might be an indicator of future actions.

she always tells me that none of these guys cared about her past and I’m the first to care this much. I told her yeah of course they didn’t care because they just wanted to sleep with you. And she literally can’t handle hearing that. She thinks they wanted to go out with her because she’s a great person and they must have actually liked her.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I guess I believed her on this one based on her explanation. She said she was hanging out with the guy and his friend at a bar. They went back to his place. She said the friend went to sleep and that she was there talking with this guy. He smoked a lot of weed and gave her some. She said weed has made her black out in the past and that this was really strong stuff. She said she doesn’t remember what happened and woke up in his bed the nextShe said he acted weird and like he wanted her to leave so she got dressed and left. She said when she got home something felt weird down there and she realized her tampon had been pushed up inside her. That last fact led me to conclude she must have been taken advantage of and was incapacitated to some degree. And the way she recounted it seemed painful and she cried. I told her it’s unfortunate she was taken advantage of but also that she put herself in the perfect situation for that.
> 
> Initially when I found out this guy happened less than two weeks before me I almost broke up with her. When she explained it this way I backed down.
> 
> ...


Assuming she is being truthful she was raped. If she was blacked out from weed or any other substance she can't give consent. This is classic date rape. Again, assuming she was truthful, she wouldn't have had sex without removing her tampon unless she was incapacitated. It is very common for women in this situation to feel ashamed and then never report it. You shouldn't hold that against her in anyway.

The lying about how many partners between her divorce and you is concerning, but not surprising. As someone else said, woman feel pressured to hide their sexual escapades while men are encouraged to brag.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You apparently were her one chance at normalcy. That’s what she was focused on.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Openminded said:


> You apparently were her one chance at normalcy. That’s what she was focused on.


that’s what I’ve always been led to believe and wanted to believe.

recent issues with the lack of intimacy have kind of brought a lot of these feelings back to surface for me. She acted like she didn’t enjoy sleeping with these people and that she didn’t like dating around. But part of me wonders if she misses the excitement of single life and the newness of meeting new people. Obviously with a ltr that feeling fades after a while.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> that’s what I’ve always been led to believe and wanted to believe.
> 
> recent issues with the lack of intimacy have kind of brought a lot of these feelings back to surface for me. She acted like she didn’t enjoy sleeping with these people and that she didn’t like dating around. But part of me wonders if she misses the excitement of single life and the newness of meeting new people. Obviously with a ltr that feeling fades after a while.


 i would think not dating life is worse for women than men most times , and she might think that she has to give in to sex more easy than she would in normal cases , it has become a form of part of the un said rules for some people , they think if you don't your cold and if you do they think your easy or a **** , so no win , 

I think it is a good time to get help from a pro in this field


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> i would think not dating life is worse for women than men most times , and she might think that she has to give in to sex more easy than she would in normal cases , it has become a form of part of the un said rules for some people , they think if you don't your cold and if you do they think your easy or a **** , so no win ,
> 
> I think it is a good time to get help from a pro in this field


those are some good points. We did talk about it recently. She did tell me that I just don’t understand what it’s like to be a girl. She said after her divorce she was really lonely and depressed. She said all she could think to do was to try and get out there again. She said that these guys contacted her on the dating site. She said she was flattered and that they would say the right things to disarm her and then she felt pressured into doing things with them. Granted by drinking and going back to someone’s place I don’t know how you can’t assume something sexual wouldn’t be the intent. Is that just naïveté on her part ? Lower inhibitions? The thing is there were a couple other guys she went home with that she says nothing sexual happened with. I can only assume that the ones she slept with she must have really wanted to and that maybe she’s just never going to admit that.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> those are some good points. We did talk about it recently. She did tell me that I just don’t understand what it’s like to be a girl. She said after her divorce she was really lonely and depressed. She said all she could think to do was to try and get out there again. She said that these guys contacted her on the dating site. She said she was flattered and that they would say the right things to disarm her and then she felt pressured into doing things with them. Granted by drinking and going back to someone’s place I don’t know how you can’t assume something sexual wouldn’t be the intent. Is that just naïveté on her part ? Lower inhibitions? The thing is there were a couple other guys she went home with that she says nothing sexual happened with. I can only assume that the ones she slept with she must have really wanted to and that maybe she’s just never going to admit that.


 you see the worst thing is you know a little too much of her past , the life you helped to take her away from , we all made mistakes in life , we are all naive at times but let you use her pc was another one of them mistakes as you are taking the past and dragging it into the present , 
you need help with how to deal with what you know she and you need help with getting the jazz back into your lifes , i know help is hard to get a good one and good help costs money but i think it is in your case worth spending , you sound like two good people that have run aground ,


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> you see the worst thing is you know a little too much of her past , the life you helped to take her away from , we all made mistakes in life , we are all naive at times but let you use her pc was another one of them mistakes as you are taking the past and dragging it into the present ,
> you need help with how to deal with what you know she and you need help with getting the jazz back into your lifes , i know help is hard to get a good one and good help costs money but i think it is in your case worth spending , you sound like two good people that have run aground ,


I appreciate that. You’re right. And yes I do know too much. Part of that is my fault for digging and part of it is hers for not guarding things or leaving things open I could see.

what’s strange to me is that my ex had been with way more people and it never bothered me. I don’t quite understand why my wife’s past bothered me the way it has. All I can think is maybe the trauma of being cheating on affected me badly? And maybe because I love my wife so much and I see her good qualities and it bothers me to think of her being used that way. I think it’s also a man thing to be territorial with other guys. I can go just by what she has told me that our relationship is the best she’s ever and that nobody from the past matters

i do agree that counseling is a good idea. I guess I worry it might just bring things to the surface again and upset her more though.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

The theme I'm seeing with her is that she seems to be validated by male attention. I think a lot of attractive women have this and fall into it from males making comments to them early on.

In longer relationships, the male switches from a compliment giver that this validating their need for male attention to someone that they just ignore. Basically your compliments now just fall on deaf ears. I've never understood this, but have experienced it personally and seen it numerous times.

I think her escapades prior to you were not her looking to have sex with these guys, that is just what she had to do from her perspective to make them like her.

You really need to be careful with a woman that is wired this way, because she will be susceptible, even if subconsciously, to male attention.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

re16 said:


> The theme I'm seeing with her is that she seems to be validated by male attention. I think a lot of attractive women have this and fall into it from males making comments to them early on.
> 
> In longer relationships, the male switches from a compliment giver that this validating their need for male attention to someone that they just ignore. Basically your compliments now just fall on deaf ears. I've never understood this, but have experienced it personally and seen it numerous times.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. It scares me though. So she’s basically immune to me now? Because it’s true, my compliments seem meaningless to her now. But according to her she has never cheated on anyone including her previous marriage/ltr and ours. She doesn’t have male friends or anything like that either. It almost seems like after her divorce she was reverting to how she was in college. She told me she used to get black out drunk in college and did some things she regrets and also told me she was raped then too.

as far as sexually, she has never been sexually aggressive. She always has deferred to me to initiate and lead. Physically she’s very feminine and dainty in a way. She has always come across as prudish in a way. Even from the start with us she always seemed unsure of herself or insecure about sex, even if she enjoyed it. So it’s hard for me to imagine her going after some new guy sexually now unless she was pursued. It’s also easy for me to see how she may have been lead along by the guys before me if they were pushing for something to happen given what I know of how she is. It’s like she equated someone wanting to have sex with caring about her.

I don’t drink and she stopped drinking altogether when we started dating. I’ve never seen what she’s like sexually when not sober. So it makes me wonder what she was like with those other guys.

so am I supposed to change my behavior to her now? Stop giving compliments?
Is trying to reignite the attraction and intimacy a lost cause?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I agree with this. It scares me though. So she’s basically immune to me now? Because it’s true, my compliments seem meaningless to her now. But according to her she has never cheated on anyone including her previous marriage/ltr and ours. She doesn’t have male friends or anything like that either. It almost seems like after her divorce she was reverting to how she was in college. *She told me she used to get black out drunk in college and did some things she regrets and also told me she was raped then too.*
> 
> as far as sexually, she has never been sexually aggressive. She always has deferred to me to initiate and lead. Physically she’s very feminine and dainty in a way. She has always come across as prudish in a way. Even from the start with us she always seemed unsure of herself or insecure about sex, even if she enjoyed it. *So it’s hard for me to imagine her going after some new guy sexually now unless she was pursued*. It’s also easy for me to see how she may have been lead along by the guys before me if they were pushing for something to happen given what I know of how she is. It’s like she equated someone wanting to have sex with caring about her.
> 
> ...


Be glad she stopped drinking, a lot of people have totally different persona when drunk, lose all inhibitions.

If she was raped that had a huge impact on her, not sure how mental damage from that gets processed and corrected.

Realize that if she ever seeks compliments and attention from another male, she will for sure find it ( maybe from your BIL ). You do know that the male nature is to pursue the female of the species? In fact, this is an important aspect of the dynamic between my wife and I. If I didn't pursue her she would want to know why not, would think something was wrong with her ( or most likely me lol ). Her response is to my pursuit.

Don't stop giving compliments, keep trying to reignite the attraction. Somehow let her know the compliments aren't always because you want sex. I will say if the only time you complement her is to be intimate, that wont serve you well. It will be seen as manipulating.

But in my opinion, until this obsession she has with having a baby girl is dealt with and until she somehow learns she is worthy of love, it is going to be difficult to make much progress.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

jjj858 said:


> so am I supposed to change my behavior to her now? Stop giving compliments?
> Is trying to reignite the attraction and intimacy a lost cause?


Definitely don't stop complimenting and I think reigniting things is exactly what is needed.

Bringing up the retroactive jealousy stuff to her isn't really going to help going forward. Its a red flag that she wasn't truthful about it, but she was probably telling you what she thought you wanted to hear at the time.

You need to figure out how to be attractive to her again...


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

You do need to get to the bottom of how she is feeling and that will come through non-argumentative communication.

Learning how to talk to each other, about difficult topics, is a skill every marriage needs.

I think you need to ramp up your game, doing manly things are the house, lifting weights, etc and put a little effort into dating your wife. It is fine to directly state that you feel disconnected and you want to improve that.

If the above doesn't work or she isn't receptive, then you know you have a bigger problem.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

my wife was much the same thinking i was just saying things to seduce her , she got it into her mind to take up modeling at 46 it was a life changer , it might be good for you and your wife , just you have to be in it with her almost like her manager sex life and everything improved and when she got tired of the model thing the sex life stayed going up


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@jjj858 Is it possible that your wife might (even unconsciously) "rate" Her BIL higher than she does you, because he fathers girls, whereas you father boys?


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

re16 said:


> You do need to get to the bottom of how she is feeling and that will come through non-argumentative communication.
> 
> Learning how to talk to each other, about difficult topics, is a skill every marriage needs.
> 
> ...


I do think better communication is needed. The thing is that I’m more comfortable expressing how I’m feeling or talking about issues than she is. She inevitably says I’m being critical of her and wants to shut down the conversation. She told me straight up that she was diagnosed with PTSD from her previous marriage and divorce. I think maybe her issues run deeper than I even know. It has always come across as a persecution complex to me.

And yeah I’ve been working on myself more lately. Trying to get into better shape. We both have been calorie counting and eating better. But of course now she seems mad that I’m losing weight quicker than her. Neither of us are overweight to begin with. But then she also tells me she thinks I’m the most handsome guy to her. It’s like a weird push and pull I don’t understand. Because her actions don’t seem to line up with her saying that when she acts like doesn’t even want to kiss let alone anything more.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> @jjj858 Is it possible that your wife might (even unconsciously) "rate" Her BIL higher than she does you, because he fathers girls, whereas you father boys?


I’m going to lean towards no. She maintains that she’s never been particularly fond of him and has always just tried to be polite for her sisters sake. He came the other day and dropped off his daughter with the in laws and there was no interaction between them that I saw that was weird or anything when I was there.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I’m going to lean towards no. She maintains that she’s never been particularly fond of him and has always just tried to be polite for her sisters sake. He came the other day and dropped off his daughter with the in laws and there was no interaction between them that *I saw that was weird or anything when I was there*.


Well, they aren't either one going to display any interaction in your presence. How much are they texting back and forth if you know? How long has BIL been without female companionship? Keep your antenna up because it sure seems to me that connection is potential for trouble down the road. Your wife in your words is a "prettier version" of his deceased wife. He has a little girl that needs a mommy. He isn't you. It is a blessing that he lives three hours away, but that can change too, imagine he will be needing some help with his baby girl.

Will your health insurance pay for some therapy ( with a FEMALE therapist ) for your wife to start working through the rape, depression, "gender disappointment", etc ?


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I think you both have serious issues.... and a long BAD road ahead if you stay together.
If you have another child with her then you deserve whatever miserable existence you get.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

That seems uncalled for and not the least bit constructive.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

You yourself would benefit from divorcing.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> You yourself would benefit from divorcing.


how so?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

If you seriously acknowledge W is gaslighting and inducing these types of EA or PA related stress issues which will lead to financial and emotional issues that will never end......

You should realize if you want things to change in a positive future way, you have to make the changes happen. Otherwise you're today looking at the rest of your life if you stay M.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I think instant jump to divorce is a little over the top. A lot of marriages go through a tough period after kids. You need to make an effort to understand what is really going on with her, but you will need to clearly put your foot down that the intimacy / attitude issues need to go away.

If you continue to be at an impasse while you are keeping your side of the street clean, then you may get to a point that she won't budge until you threaten to end things.

I hope it doesn't go that way. Collect your thoughts and approach things from a logical way and don't bite if she gets emotional or blame shifts. Keep your cool and point out what she is doing.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

re16 said:


> I think instant jump to divorce is a little over the top. A lot of marriages go through a tough period after kids. You need to make an effort to understand what is really going on with her, but you will need to clearly put your foot down that the intimacy / attitude issues need to go away.
> 
> If you continue to be at an impasse while you are keeping your side of the street clean, then you may get to a point that she won't budge until you threaten to end things.
> 
> I hope it doesn't go that way. Collect your thoughts and approach things from a logical way and don't bite if she gets emotional or blame shifts. Keep your cool and point out what she is doing.


those are some good points. The past few days we have discussed a few issues. But she says it stresses her out and she wants to shut down talks usually. I brought up going to therapy and she said we could but that she’s worried it would just upset her. She also acted like I’m the one with the issues and not her. She said she thought everything was fine in our marriage until recently I told her I’ve been feeling unhappy. She said she doesn’t understand why. She also said that no amount of therapy will make her stop wanting to have a girl. So I don’t really know what to make of this.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> those are some good points. The past few days we have discussed a few issues. But she says it stresses her out and she wants to shut down talks usually. I brought up going to therapy and she said we could but that she’s worried it would just upset her. She also acted like I’m the one with the issues and not her. She said she thought everything was fine in our marriage until recently I told her I’ve been feeling unhappy. She said she doesn’t understand why. She also said that no amount of therapy will make her stop wanting to have a girl. So I don’t really know what to make of this.


Would talking with her mother about her obsessing about having a girl baby potentially help? And she cant know ahead of time what therapy can accomplish.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Would talking with her mother about her obsessing about having a girl baby potentially help? And she cant know ahead of time what therapy can accomplish.


yeah I discussed it briefly with MIL last summer when it first became an issue. She was concerned too but seemed to attribute it to hormonal type stuff. I need to get with her again but it’s unlikely I can talk to her alone until the end of summer when my wife goes back to work. Luckily I have a very good relationship with her mom. She considers me like her son and she’s always very logical and sound with her advice. It’s funny because I’ve even said to my wife before “your mom is nicer to me than you are”.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

One other thing I wanted to touch on. Is her hiding that she was taking Zoloft for four months a behavior I should be concerned about? Up to that point I can’t really recall an instance where she kept something from me like that or willfully lied.

Her justification of it was that she knows I’m wary of taking medications and she knew I would discourage it and that’s why didn’t mention it. I guess I wonder if she could just not tell me about that, then what else might she keep from me in the future? She says it was not about hiding something from me and just about trying to feel better.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> One other thing I wanted to touch on. Is her hiding that she was taking Zoloft for four months a behavior I should be concerned about? Up to that point I can’t really recall an instance where she kept something from me like that or willfully lied.
> 
> Her justification of it was that she knows I’m wary of taking medications and she knew I would discourage it and that’s why didn’t mention it. I guess I wonder if she could just not tell me about that, then what else might she keep from me in the future? She says it was not about hiding something from me and just about trying to feel better.


What Doctor prescribed and managed her treatment with zoloft? It has lot of side effects. What doctor told her to stop taking it and why?


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> What Doctor prescribed and managed her treatment with zoloft? It has lot of side effects. What doctor told her to stop taking it and why?


A nurse practitioner. She had no follow up with this doctor after starting it. And then she stopped taking it cold turkey when it ran out and didn’t bother refilling it. I told her it was a really bad idea to stop something like that so fast.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Ever consider that a key reason she married you was so you could give her a baby girl? That seems to be her focus in life. Not you or not your son but a future daughter who may never exist.

As to Zoloft, my husband took that among many other meds and it was always prescribed by a psychiatrist and carefully monitored. So, that’s a “no” to the way she handled it.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Ever consider that a key reason she married you was so you could give her a baby girl? That seems to be her focus in life. Not you or not your son but a future daughter who may never exist.
> 
> As to Zoloft, my husband took that among many other meds and it was always prescribed by a psychiatrist and carefully monitored. So, that’s a “no” to the way she handled it.


That’s never really occurred to me. I always assumed the motivation for marrying was just a natural progression of the relationship. We had been together four years at that time and everything had always seemed pretty good. The only issue we ever really had up to that point was my retroactive jealousy issues, but by that point I had put that stuff out of my head. I guess maybe her bouncing from rebound to rebound right before we met could have signified some desperate attempt to find someone to father the daughter she so desperately wanted?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

jjj858 said:


> That’s never really occurred to me. I always assumed the motivation for marrying was just a natural progression of the relationship. We had been together four years at that time and everything had always seemed pretty good. The only issue we ever really had up to that point was my retroactive jealousy issues, but by that point I had put that stuff out of my head. I guess maybe her bouncing from rebound to rebound right before we met could have signified some desperate attempt to find someone to father the daughter she so desperately wanted?


Maybe. 

Her baby clock might have been ticking louder and louder and she felt that you were her best bet. But she’s the only one who knows for sure and she’s not going to admit it if it’s true so you might as well assume it isn’t. I just wondered if she had given you that impression at any point.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Maybe.
> 
> Her baby clock might have been ticking louder and louder and she felt that you were her best bet. But she’s the only one who knows for sure and she’s not going to admit it if it’s true so you might as well assume it isn’t. I just wondered if she had given you that impression at any point.


really she has always showered me with love and adoration from the start. It’s only post baby that I’ve noticed these changes. We discussed if we wanted to have kids early on. I was more indifferent to it tbh, but open to the idea at a later time. She always said she wanted to have one or two. But never mentioned such a strong desire for a girl.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> A nurse practitioner. She had no follow up with this doctor after starting it. And then she stopped taking it cold turkey when it ran out and didn’t bother refilling it. I told her it was a really bad idea to stop something like that so fast.


Zoloft is a psychoactive medication intended for treating major psychiatric issues like bipolar disorder, major depression disorder, ocd, and even ptsd. I am surprised that a nurse practitioner(who is NOT a doctor) is even authorized to prescribe such a medication. Yes, both starting and stopping something like this ought to be under an MD's guidance. 

A lot of the things you have mentioned in this thread indicates you need to take your wife to see a medical doctor for guidance sorting out all of her issues.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

jjj858 said:


> really she has always showered me with love and adoration from the start. It’s only post baby that I’ve noticed these changes. We discussed if we wanted to have kids early on. I was more indifferent to it tbh, but open to the idea at a later time. She always said she wanted to have one or two. But never mentioned such a strong desire for a girl.


Being a mother often becomes the primary focus in life. In her case I’d say it’s more becoming the mother of a girl since she’s not overly focused on the child she has. Love and adoration for a spouse may fall away as the focus shifts to children. Your life isn’t going to be easy.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> Zoloft is a psychoactive medication intended for treating major psychiatric issues like bipolar disorder, major depression disorder, ocd, and even ptsd. I am surprised that a nurse practitioner(who is NOT a doctor) is even authorized to prescribe such a medication. Yes, both starting and stopping something like this ought to be under an MD's guidance.
> 
> A lot of the things you have mentioned in this thread indicates you need to take your wife to see a medical doctor for guidance sorting out all of her issues.


My exH’s psychiatrist felt that only psychiatrists should be allowed to prescribe those drugs since they were the ones who were specialists in that area. He disapproved of non-specialists handing them out like candy with no oversight.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

WTF?

I would ask your wife what was that all about. Why the hell was she flirting with her BIL?


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

ABHale said:


> WTF?
> 
> I would ask your wife what was that all about. Why the hell was she flirting with her BIL?


my thoughts exactly. But I don’t dare ask her. The last thing I brought up about BIL a couple weeks back turned into a big argument. At that time I hadn’t seen anything with my own eyes yet.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

jjj858 said:


> So back to the topic of the BIL
> 
> maybe I’m reading too much into this. Please tell me if you think I am.
> 
> ...


If it were me I’d go online and take a good look at the phone bill..


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> If it were me I’d go online and take a good look at the phone bill..


I actually have recently. I finally figured out how to get in and check. No phone calls between them that I saw. A few texts but that seemed to match up with just sharing photos of the baby and updates that I’ve seen myself on her phone. I checked other numbers that I didn’t recognize and they turned out to just be females she works with.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Good at least you put that to bed. Is the BIL living with you?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

jjj858 said:


> my thoughts exactly. But I don’t dare ask her. The last thing I brought up about BIL a couple weeks back turned into a big argument. At that time I hadn’t seen anything with my own eyes yet.


Wonder why?


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Good at least you put that to bed. Is the BIL living with you?


no


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## Elijah220 (Jun 26, 2021)

My best advice to you would be to get off of this board and go seek true professional help for both you and your wife.

To begin with, you try to make yourself sound next to perfect and innocent in this. But 10 years later you are not only still bringing your wife’s past up to her, but you are making her feel badly about it by continually telling her those guys only used her for sex. Maybe they did, but in her mind it was something more. You saying that only makes her feel like **** about herself. The worst is, she tells you she was a victim of rape, and while you may say you are sorry that happened to her, you had the audacity to tell her she was partly to blame for putting herself in that position. You NEVER tell a rape victim they are to blame in any way!!! Then with no proof or evidence at all, merely because a stranger on this board mentioned it, you asked her about a possible relationship between her and her brother in law.

Your wife is clearly struggling with some form of depression, and your dredging up her past, blaming her for being raped, and accusing her of being in an inappropriate relationship with her brother in law certainly isn’t helping that.

You both need professional help as soon as possible or you won’t have a marriage to save.

As a side note: Zoloft can be horrible in some people. My 16 year old brother hung himself while on it. If you read about it one of the side effects is suicidal tendencies. Let your wife know this, and also use this to let her know why it is important that she tell you if she is taking something. So you can make sure she is ok and is ok to be taking care of your son.

This entire situation is so toxic on both sides. I pray you both get the help you need ASAP!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Possible burner phone. From what I’ve read, o don’t trust your wife at all.

consider a VAR in her car and get some real data that can help you. You’re not going to get the truth from your wife who is acting very strangely.

this girl baby stuff is highly abnormal. It actually disliking her own child because he’s a boy is more than abnormal, it’s bizarre.

you’ve got crazy on your hands. I’d punch myself in the nuts every time the thought of impregnating her crossed my mind.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jjj858 said:


> my thoughts exactly. But I don’t dare ask her. The last thing I brought up about BIL a couple weeks back turned into a big argument. At that time I hadn’t seen anything with my own eyes yet.


Then it is time that you respect yourself enough to say something.

Tell her you are finished trying to guess what is going on.

Tell her that if she wants to be with her BIL that you will gladly give her a divorce to get away from someone that seems to be having an emotional affair.

Tell her that you are worth more then what she offers as a wife.


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## Elijah220 (Jun 26, 2021)

ABHale said:


> Then it is time that you respect yourself enough to say something.
> 
> Tell her you are finished trying to guess what is going on.
> 
> ...


This is way over the top about the BIL. He admitted there were no texts other than her getting pictures of her niece. When the BIL asked her to go drinking she said NO. And since the seed was planted in his brain here about her and the BIL, he could have completely misread the conversation they had when he was sitting right there and admitted they talked about nothing special. So how is that an EA????? You guys go way overboard sometimes and these people’s marriages you are messing with! Perhaps a bit more thought and less conclusion jumping would be more constructive!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jjj858 said:


> I haven’t in any way been “another child”. I feed, change, bathe, hold, and play with my son as much as she does. I definitely pull my weight. I could understand resentment if I didn’t. But I’m definitely an involved and engaged father.


I hear you and do believe you're pulling your weight. But what does your wife think? Some women get an entitlement mindset after having kids. In their eyes, the guy pulling an equal load isn't enough.

She could resent her family issues, not having a girl, you still expecting sex (she mentioned a more mature, stable relationship), and so on. She could resent you're not struggling like she appears to be. All those could lead to thinking you should be doing more to offset troubles she perceives she is having.

Something I see in my kid A TON with depression is an unwillingness to accept ownership of their issues. If a problem is even acknowledged, responsibility for poor performance is not. The narrative becomes how regular standards of conduct are unfair to them, because everything feels difficult and they can lack the empathy to see that everyone has issues and pushes through. They may resist treatment because we should accept them as they are and not expect them to work towards improving themselves. Every disappointment or conflict is someone else's fault.

With time and space, I now recognize these behaviors in my ex-wife (kid's mom). From experience, you can't make them get better. You can only set boundaries, do your fair share, care for your son, and hope she appreciates what she has enough to get healthier and be a good wife and mother.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Regarding BIL,....mouth shut, eyes open. Don't bring up accusations unless you know they are absolutely true based on evidence. They do more damage than good and if there really was something happening, it goes straight underground.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Elijah220 said:


> This is way over the top about the BIL. He admitted there were no texts other than her getting pictures of her niece. When the BIL asked her to go drinking she said NO. And since the seed was planted in his brain here about her and the BIL, he could have completely misread the conversation they had when he was sitting right there and admitted they talked about nothing special. So how is that an EA????? You guys go way overboard sometimes and these people’s marriages you are messing with! Perhaps a bit more thought and less conclusion jumping would be more constructive!


You are so new to this….

It wouldn’t be the first time this has ended up playing out as cheating in the end. Death of loved ones has a unexpected tendency to lead people to cheat.


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## Elijah220 (Jun 26, 2021)

ABHale said:


> You are so new to this….
> 
> It wouldn’t be the first time this has ended up playing out as cheating in the end. Death of loved ones has a unexpected tendency to lead people to cheat.


New to this board, not new to life or human nature. I very well understand this CAN happen, but my point was in hasn’t happened here yet so to confront her saying it has is ludicrous.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Elijah220 said:


> New to this board, not new to life or human nature. I very well understand this CAN happen, but my point was in hasn’t happened here yet so to confront her saying it has is ludicrous.


So he should wait until she is f’ing the BIL before he confronts this?

For the BIL she doesn’t like, she didn’t have any problems ignoring OP at lunch talking to him.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I actually have recently. I finally figured out how to get in and check. No phone calls between them that I saw. A few texts but that seemed to match up with just sharing photos of the baby and updates that I’ve seen myself on her phone. I checked other numbers that I didn’t recognize and they turned out to just be females she works with.


Not much point in focusing on the BIL because if a relationship is beginning, nothing you can do will change the trajectory. And personally wouldnt waste time playing detective. For sure make no accusations.

If she used Zoloft, she at least thought she needed some help. You said before she thot u needed help. So both of you get some profressional help.


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## Elijah220 (Jun 26, 2021)

It is a


ABHale said:


> So he should wait until she is f’ing the BIL before he confronts this?
> 
> For the BIL she doesn’t like, she didn’t have any problems ignoring OP at lunch talking to him.


 It is a huge deal to accuse your wife of having an affair of any kind with her BIL of her deceased sister. One conversation where they talked about nothing is NOT enough to make that accusation. If she wanted him she would have gone to the bar, but she said NO. That at least warrants waiting for more solid proof before making such a huge accusation.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

jjj858 said:


> I’ve been going thru the same exact thing. We have a one year old and our sex life has dwindled. I think a lot of it has to do with just having less time as our focus shifted to raising our child. Not to mention getting less sleep and her body image issues. She gained 20lbs which she hasn’t been able to lose. But to me
> she still looks great and it hasn’t affected my attraction level in the slightest. But no matter how much I tell her I think she’s beautiful it doesn’t make a difference. Frequency has picked up a bit to maybe four times a month. But I don’t sense an overwhelming desire or enthusiasm from her when we do. She’s also been on birth control since giving birth and I swear it’s killed her sex drive but she doesn’t think so. As for what I’m going to do? There doesn’t appear to be much I can do. Most other aspects of the relationship are pretty good. Breaking up my marriage and my sons home because I’m not getting enough sex would just seem selfish.


I know what you mean. I could have written what you did without the child part.

If we don't want to leave maybe guys like us buy toys to at least have fun with (cars, motorcycles, etc) Maybe thats why everyone equates those with mid-life crisises? Its not really an attention-getter as much as it is a means of distraction? Not really sure?


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I know what you mean. I could have written what you did without the child part.
> 
> If we don't want to leave maybe guys like us buy toys to at least have fun with (cars, motorcycles, etc) Maybe thats why everyone equates those with mid-life crisises? Its not really an attention-getter as much as it is a means of distraction? Not really sure?


I agree. For me it’s guitar/music gear and I always get flack from her about “why are you buying such an expensive amp” or guitar or whatever. Idk I guess I’m just trying to fill the void somehow and it definitely distracts me.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

jjj858 said:


> I agree. For me it’s guitar/music gear and I always get flack from her about “why are you buying such an expensive amp” or guitar or whatever. Idk I guess I’m just trying to fill the void somehow and it definitely distracts me.


You should tell her "OK its either guitar stuff or sex? You decide"


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

I think a lot of guys make this excuse. “I have a high sex drive and my wife doesn’t”. Nah my dude you’re a normal man who values intimacy as a way to connect and express with his woman. For whatever she doesn’t value that right now. I’m not sure what it is that makes women turn it off after getting married. Is it some sort of power play? They’ve got what they wanted and feel they don’t have to try anymore? The interesting thing is if you divorce her she’ll probably nail five or six dudes in the following year and do absolutely anything they want too.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jjj858 said:


> They’ve got what they wanted and feel they don’t have to try anymore? The interesting thing is if you divorce her she’ll probably nail five or six dudes in the following year and do absolutely anything they want too.


This is the idea behind the 180 in a way. You make yourself into a guy some other woman will want to bang and see what kind of response you get.

Yesterday we were eating lunch at a bar and the young lady who is tending bar is pretty hot. At some point she asks us what we do for jobs and I gotta say mine is pretty cool.

Normally I would dress it down to not get a response but I already had a couple beers and she was pretty hot so I was like ok let’s see what reaction I get.

The bartender was impressed and thought it was so cool (or she’s a great actress). Kept coming by to ask me about it. Mission accomplished, wife got a direct show of my market value. Later in the evening my wife initiated on me which she usually doesn’t do.

So as stupid and lame as these ideas seem I am somewhat convinced they work, at least on some women. It’s entirely possible with a different wife she gets angry instead.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

I’m certainly not to the point of considering divorce but I agree with your post and especially the last part. My wife said she felt like everything in our marriage was fine and she can’t understand why I’ve felt insecure. She’s perfectly fine with the minimal frequency we’ve had over the last few years it seems. If I push the issue I get told I’m being critical.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jjj858 said:


> I’m certainly not to the point of considering divorce but I agree with your post and especially the last part. My wife said she felt like everything in our marriage was fine and she can’t understand why I’ve felt insecure. She’s perfectly fine with the minimal frequency we’ve had over the last few years it seems. If I push the issue I get told I’m being critical.


I recommend you don’t talk about it until you are at the point where you’re committed to solving it or divorce.

Until that point you have no leverage. Once you’re not afraid to leave then she will view it as a real possibility and then have a decision to make. Try to work on it or you’re done.

Maybe she picks done at that point. I was prepared for that mentally and financially.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I recommend you don’t talk about it until you are at the point where you’re committed to solving it or divorce.
> 
> Until that point you have no leverage. Once you’re not afraid to leave then she will view it as a real possibility and then have a decision to make. Try to work on it or you’re done.
> 
> Maybe she picks done at that point. I was prepared for that mentally and financially.


Good advice. But how do I even approach working on this? Couples therapy? How do you make someone want you again like they used to? And really I haven’t changed much or aged badly in the ten years we’ve been together. If anything she’s heavier than she was.

And I’ve definitely given what you said about leaving some thought. Right now I’m not in the financial position to do so. A career change I plan to make in the next year will put me in a better position to have that kind of leverage.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jjj858 said:


> Good advice. But how do I even approach working on this? Couples therapy? How do you make someone want you again like they used to? And really I haven’t changed much or aged badly in the ten years we’ve been together. If anything she’s heavier than she was.
> 
> And I’ve definitely given what you said about leaving some thought. Right now I’m not in the financial position to do so. A career change I plan to make in the next year will put me in a better position to have that kind of leverage.


There is no reason for the LD to change unless you give them a reason to. To answer your question though maybe you can and maybe you can’t. It depends on exactly what is wrong in the first place.

You can read about the path I took in my post “My Story”. If nothing else it might give you some ideas you can try.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> I’m certainly not to the point of considering divorce but I agree with your post and especially the last part. My wife said she felt like everything in our marriage was fine and she can’t understand why I’ve felt insecure. She’s perfectly fine with the minimal frequency we’ve had over the last few years it seems. If I push the issue I get told I’m being critical.


Because the hotter partner always thinks the idea is to push. Unfortunately, it is like pushing a wet noodle. 

The trick is to drop the thermostat, not increase it. This has more of a pulling effect, and can be effective.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I’m certainly not to the point of considering divorce but I agree with your post and especially the last part. My wife said she felt like everything in our marriage was fine and she can’t understand why I’ve felt insecure. She’s perfectly fine with the minimal frequency we’ve had over the last few years it seems. If I push the issue I get told I’m being critical.


Ccpowerslave’s post is on point. You have to be serious about the outcome. 

All low drive people are the same as it concerns the marriage. They are happy. They are getting what they want. They have ZERO ability to put themselves in to the high drive spouse’s shoes. They can’t see it because they don’t want it. 

Read dead bedrooms on Reddit. Also read the low libido community to get a better idea of where those people are coming from. I just suggest DO NOT post there. They’ll bite your head off. It’s a bunch of posts of people that enjoy having low libidos. Yes, it seems odd. It seems crazy, but that is how they are. It’s the same thing with them. They cannot see why we want sex….. at all. They just can’t see it. 

Like cc said, you need to be 100% sure in your convictions. The low drive person will drag their feet like you cannot believe. Some of these folks are fixable. If they used to have a high drive and now they don’t, there’s a good chance that can be fixed. If they were always low, then my friend, you unfortunately fell in love with the wrong girl and that super sucks….. but it’s the truth.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> I’m certainly not to the point of considering divorce but I agree with your post and especially the last part. My wife said she felt like everything in our marriage was fine and she can’t understand why I’ve felt insecure. She’s perfectly fine with the minimal frequency we’ve had over the last few years it seems. If I push the issue I get told I’m being critical.


Your marriage has a problem. You have mismatched sex drives at the moment. The key thing for your marriage to survive is that you need to solve the problem as a team. Right now, you're coming across as though you perceive the problem as her sex drive being too low, and that the solution is clearly for her to put out more, no matter how she feels. She likely perceives the problem as your sex drive being too high, and that the solution is clearly for you to stop bothering her about it, no matter how you feel. You're into a dangerous dynamic where you feel unloved because she won't have sex with you, and she feels unloved because you seem like you only want her for sex.

You both need to reframe the problem in a way that doesn't blame the other spouse or put the onus on them to change. You BOTH need to solve the problem TOGETHER. It's going to take honest, possibly painful, communication about what sex means to each of you, about what factors in your lives have changed since you were having more frequent sex and if there is anything you can do about them, about any health/medical issues that need addressing, about any new skills that could be learned, EVERYTHING. Brainstorm together. Don't place blame. Experiment with potential solutions. Check in regularly with each other. Just make sure the dynamic is not you vs her, but you AND her vs the sex drive mismatch.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I’m certainly not to the point of considering divorce but I agree with your post and especially the last part. My wife said she felt like everything in our marriage was fine and she can’t understand why I’ve felt insecure. She’s perfectly fine with the minimal frequency we’ve had over the last few years it seems. If I push the issue I get told I’m being critical.


What puzzles me about this HD/LD dynamic, is both spouses fully know that continuing with unrelieved high sexual tension can eventually end the marriage. The LD person, if they cared at all for their spouse, and their marriage would do all in their power to rise to the occasion. They would be talking to their mate, doctors, sex counselors trying to find a path forward. 

The LD person isn't broken. But that doesn't give them the right to break their HD spouse.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I’m certainly not to the point of considering divorce but I agree with your post and especially the last part. *My wife said she felt like everything in our marriage was fine and she can’t understand why I’ve felt insecure. She’s perfectly fine with the minimal frequency we’ve had over the last few years it seems. *If I push the issue I get told I’m being critical.


She is lying, if not to you then to herself. For crying out loud, a man and woman sleeping together every night and living together know if their intimate life isn't fine. And it doesn't take more than a few days for them both to understand why they aren't "fine". Continuing over "few years" stonewalling all of the way is IMHO abuse, plain and simple. When either my wife or I have been ill for a day or two unable to engage, we are BOTH climbing the walls to get back together, and we are for sure not outside the norm. 

The thing is, we have seen more than one thread where the supposedly LD partner went full wanton depraved sex maniac when the right partner showed them attention. They end up doing it every day in every way and every place months, sometimes years.

Whatever you tolerate you get more ( or less ) of.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> Some great advice the last couple of pages. I’ll get into some more specifics to see what you guys think:
> 
> *Won’t do oral anymore* - recently told me she had the idea in her head that guys use it to degrade women as though it’s some recent experience she’s had and not remembering the many times she did it when we were dating? Perplexing. Like what a weird ****in thing to think all of a sudden? She did do it once recently and said all this after and then said she thought “well you’re my husband so I shouldn’t think that”. Again weird to think all of sudden. Was there some guy forcing her to do bj’s recently that I don’t know about?? And yeah my hygiene is always good. It’s not like I’m mowing the lawn and then asking to be blown.
> 
> ...


Guess I missed it before in this thread, but she is shutting down intimacy with you one step at a time. In fact reading this it seems to me its about full stopped as it is. One vanilla position without foreplay, without touching, with no oral, surprising you are still there. I would likely have hard time continuing to perform under those circumstances. It would be a real "turn off" personally.

Your "bringing up her past" while understandable under these circumstances, isn't aiding your "cause." Her doing everything in every way with everyone before you is really irrelevant and pointless to discuss. And if that has broken her connection to you, she is going to begin believing you only want one thing from her, which will be a turnoff. I mean, us men would be ok "being used" for sex, as long and as often as a woman wanted to use us. But most women aren't wired that way. They want to be wanted, but not ONLY for sex.

The sad thing is, her past behavior could easily become her future behavior.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

I guess to me her past is relevant in that why did those dudes get some version of her I didn’t? But maybe if they went LTR with her she would’ve placed the same limits eventually. All of them broke up with her after a month or two also. I wonder if maybe they had issues with her sexuality too. 

And you’re right the vanilla sex with no foreplay is a turn off. She also said she doesn’t like to kiss during sex recently. What? We have always kissed passionately. She says “it makes it hard for me to focus on getting off”. Little by little more and more is becoming limited and taken off the table.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I guess to me her past is relevant in that why did those dudes get some version of her I didn’t? But maybe if they went LTR with her she would’ve placed the same limits eventually. All of them broke up with her after a month or two also. I wonder if maybe they had issues with her sexuality too.
> 
> And you’re right the vanilla sex with no foreplay is a turn off. She also said she doesn’t like to kiss during sex recently. What? We have always kissed passionately. She says “it makes it hard for me to focus on getting off”. Little by little more and more is becoming limited and taken off the table.


There is an old thread by a woman "Why I dont do with you what I did with them", the reasons are myriad. But unless you can become them ( and they would still tingle her) it is pointless to go down that road. Especislly if she in stonewall mode. Be sure she knows for certain she can end up XW if things dont change.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Bouncing isn’t really an option right now. I do still love her and I think she loves me. We also have a one year old son. I can’t handle not getting to see him grow up. I also don’t trust her ability to not get ran thru by any loser that shows her the slightest bit of attention if we separated. That’s exactly what happened after her first divorce and in the preceding year before we met. I don’t want my son subjected to that and also subjected to the influence of another man. He’s my masterpiece you know? I want to be his dad and teach him to be a man. 

Financially I also need to get myself into a better position. We are very much dependent on dual incomes right now. Also during our worst fights recently she told me she won’t let me see my son if we separate and pretty much that she would plan to **** me over as much as possible financially. But then says “but that’s not what I want. I think our relationship is fine and you are the one with the issues with it, not me”.

Her previous marriage, she married her college boyfriend and they were together 7 years. She painted him as the worst and most abusive person ever. Said he cheated on her and was emotionally abusive. But she gave the hint that she wasn’t interested in him in the bedroom after a while but said it was because of how he was treating her. I’m beginning to think that maybe it was a similar situation to mine. That her desire went out the window after a few years and he felt it and went looking elsewhere. I also saw texts she sent to a friend after her divorce when she was dating the first douchebag saying “it was all so matter of fact with (husband), we were just kind of together but I never felt the spark with him that I feel with (douchebag), when me and (douchebag) kiss I feel something I’ve never felt before”.

so that tells me she settled in the past for the reliable partner but didn’t feel the spark she felt with fkboy. So how do I know it’s not the same situation with me? How do I know she didn’t feel a spark with me but settled because I was the guy who didn’t just hit it and quit it?

I think marriage counseling might be the best option right now. I’ve found a good female therapist locally and I’m going to make an appointment soon. Things are just not good right now and it’s really bumming me out.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jjj858 said:


> Also during our worst fights recently she told me she won’t let me see my son if we separate and pretty much that she would plan to **** me over as much as possible financially.


Whoa whoa whoa...

This is far bigger than you just have a bedroom issue.

If my wife threatened me like that she would be dead to me at that time and I’d already be working on a plan to get away from her. It might take months, it might take years. Having that plan and executing it can sustain you.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> Bouncing isn’t really an option right now. I do still love her and I think she loves me. We also have a one year old son. I can’t handle not getting to see him grow up. I also don’t trust her ability to not get ran thru by any loser that shows her the slightest bit of attention if we separated. That’s exactly what happened after her first divorce and in the preceding year before we met. I don’t want my son subjected to that and also subjected to the influence of another man. He’s my masterpiece you know? I want to be his dad and teach him to be a man.
> 
> Financially I also need to get myself into a better position. We are very much dependent on dual incomes right now. Also during our worst fights recently she told me she won’t let me see my son if we separate and pretty much that she would plan to **** me over as much as possible financially. But then says “but that’s not what I want. I think our relationship is fine and you are the one with the issues with it, not me”.
> 
> ...


You have your answer from the texts. You are in same boat as her first hubby. She isnt cutout for marriage. And the first man who tickles her fancy she will be full on wanton with.

I dont think MC is going to fix anything. She already told you it is her way or hiway so live with it or she going ef u over in divorce. I would have filed when she said that. Waiting just builds more finances for her attorney to take


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> You have your answer from the texts. You are in same boat as her first hubby. She isnt cutout for marriage. And the first man who tickles her fancy she will be full on wanton with.


The thing is when we were first together she was “full on wanton” with me. Nothing was off limits then. There was many a time where she was more aggressive sexually and I could tell she desires me. I imagine it as probably like with her first marriage too. I think she would repeat this pattern in any subsequent relationship probably. She tells me that marriage and something long term is what she was looking for when she dated a bunch of guys after the divorce. She said once they saw she wanted something more they bailed.

my question is if that’s what she wanted, why doesn’t she recognize that a healthy sex life should also be part of that equation in marriage? Why is it if so little importance to her now?

it makes me feel like I got duped by her


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

jjj858 said:


> The thing is when we were first together she was “full on wanton” with me. Nothing was off limits then. There was many a time where she was more aggressive sexually and I could tell she desires me. I imagine it as probably like with her first marriage too. I think she would repeat this pattern in any subsequent relationship probably. She tells me that marriage and something long term is what she was looking for when she dated a bunch of guys after the divorce. She said once they saw she wanted something more they bailed.
> 
> my question is if that’s what she wanted, why doesn’t she recognize that a healthy sex life should also be part of that equation in marriage? Why is it if so little importance to her now?
> 
> it makes me feel like I got duped by her


Many guys out there feel duped.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> Bouncing isn’t really an option right now. I do still love her and I think she loves me. We also have a one year old son. I can’t handle not getting to see him grow up. I also don’t trust her ability to not get ran thru by any loser that shows her the slightest bit of attention if we separated. That’s exactly what happened after her first divorce and in the preceding year before we met. I don’t want my son subjected to that and also subjected to the influence of another man. He’s my masterpiece you know? I want to be his dad and teach him to be a man.
> 
> Financially I also need to get myself into a better position. We are very much dependent on dual incomes right now. Also during our worst fights recently she told me she won’t let me see my son if we separate and pretty much that she would plan to **** me over as much as possible financially. But then says “but that’s not what I want. I think our relationship is fine and you are the one with the issues with it, not me”.
> 
> ...


In your current situation, the only path you have going forward is what ccpowerslave does. You need to drastically increase your SMV. She will take notice. 

If there is one constant with all LD spouses (and that also includes LD for you spouses) is jealousy. They share this same trait with cheaters. They want to live their life the way they want, but they also want you to be tied down to only them. It is extremely selfish. You will have to use their jealousy against them. They will notice if others start to notice you. Tough to do if you are introverted like me, but a lot easier if you enjoy speaking with people. 

Just comes down to your priorities. What is much easier for me is not seeing my kids every day. I don’t mean that to sound like I’m an asshole. I just like A LOT of free time where there are no other humans around me. That includes my children. I love them and would sacrifice my life for them in a heartbeat, but it doesn’t change my personality. I like a lot of alone time so it would be no problem for me to go to 50% time.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> The thing is when we were first together she was “full on wanton” with me. Nothing was off limits then. There was many a time where she was more aggressive sexually and I could tell she desires me. I imagine it as probably like with her first marriage too. I think she would repeat this pattern in any subsequent relationship probably. She tells me that marriage and something long term is what she was looking for when she dated a bunch of guys after the divorce. She said once they saw she wanted something more they bailed.
> 
> my question is if that’s what she wanted, why doesn’t she recognize that a healthy sex life should also be part of that equation in marriage? Why is it if so little importance to her now?
> 
> it makes me feel like I got duped by her


I understand this feeling of being duped. It sucks. It really, really sucks. Just my personality. So many people have screwed me over in my life that I started to pride myself on NOT getting duped. I really beat the crap out of myself when I miss something and allow someone to get the drop on me. Pisses me off to no end.

So, two things you can look into that helped my wife. 

#1. Is there any past trauma. This is a possibility, and yes, just because you are her husband doesn't mean sh1t. Sometimes they just won't tell you. I recently got to learn something brand new from my wife a month ago and we've been in a relationship/married for 20 years. This absolutely has to come out. It needs to be healed and she needs to be proactively looking for IC to help her get through this.

#2. Some women (including my wife) go through a weird portion of their lives where they don't think its "OK" for them to enjoy sex. They get into their heads that it is dirty and it isn't meant for them to like it. My wife actually did a lot of leg work here on her own and went down the rabbit hole of information on the internet to learn more about this. It helped her out a ton. If your wife doesn't want to do that, you guys can look into a sex therapist to work on those issues. 

Either way, the main thing is to take action. Don't waste time. You essentially need to get yourself to the point that you do not care about the outcome. Your preference is to be with your wife, but you can be just as happy without. My wife knows in no uncertain terms that we will never revert back to a dead bedroom. Never. She can look into my eyes and know that I am dead serious. She knows very well that I would have no issues divorcing at the drop of a hat. I am perfectly happy having no one around me. I love her to death, I love being with her and my preference is to stay with her, but I'll be fine without. She will hit menopause here in 5-10 years. At that point, if things go south, she knows it is on her to fix it. If hormone therapy or other methods are necessary to help her out, then that is what we do. What I need to see is action and effort from her to help correct things so that our marriage can still stay strong. It takes a lot of hard work. 

If your wife continually says things like "you won't get to see your child", make sure you have a VAR on you next time you guys talk about sex. Get that on record. She can't do that. You'll get 50/50 with your children. I don't think the law likes it when a spouse makes those kinds of threats. 

Lastly, you can develop one of my favorite abilities. I have no guilt and no shame. I just don't care. My family learned a long time ago that there is no way to guilt me into doing anything I don't want to do. They also know I have no problems cutting them off from being in my life.... so they tend to be on their best behavior around me. It takes some time to get to this point, but it helps. If things were to ever go south with my wife and I, I would have no guilt or shame for any of my family or friends knowing that I needed to divorce due to a dead bedroom. LD spouses will try to use that on you if you get to the point of needing to end the marriage. They think making you look like the bad guy to your loved ones will keep you in their no sex prison. You have to get yourself to a point of not caring.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> The thing is when we were first together she was “full on wanton” with me. Nothing was off limits then. There was many a time where she was more aggressive sexually and I could tell she desires me. I imagine it as probably like with her first marriage too. *I think she would repeat this pattern in any subsequent relationship probably. She tells me that marriage and something long term is what she was looking for when she dated a bunch of guys after the divorce.* She said once they saw she wanted something more they bailed.
> 
> my question is if that’s what she wanted, why doesn’t she recognize that a healthy sex life should also be part of that equation in marriage? Why is it if so little importance to her now?
> 
> *it makes me feel like I got duped by her*


Sorry to say this is it, though she didn't necessarily intend to "dupe you". She likely thinks she wants marriage but doesn't know herself well enough to know she isn't capable of having that. She likes the thrill of a new relationship, and surely loves sex with a new flame but gets bored after "awhile". She doesn't know herself well enough to know she isn't ltr capable. The "bunch of guys" she went through after the divorce discerned that part of her, so had fun and then left before the relationship staled. And they sure weren't going to marry her knowing the history. 

It is too bad you have a child, but "staying for the kids" doesn't help anyone, least of all the child.

So, that is where you are. What you do with it is in your court. I think you know that stale bread doesn't improve with age, it eventually goes totally rotten. And hanging around while you make some more money just increases size of her attorney's bank account.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> I dont think MC is going to fix anything. She already told you it is her way or hiway so live with it or she going ef u over in divorce. I would have filed when she said that. Waiting just builds more finances for her attorney to take


maybe so but I ne


LATERILUS79 said:


> I understand this feeling of being duped. It sucks. It really, really sucks. Just my personality. So many people have screwed me over in my life that I started to pride myself on NOT getting duped. I really beat the crap out of myself when I miss something and allow someone to get the drop on me. Pisses me off to no end.
> 
> So, two things you can look into that helped my wife.
> 
> ...


The past trauma I can think of for her is she told me she was raped in college and that was literally her first time having sex. She was in a sorority. She was drinking with some guy and he wanted to have sex. She said she told him she didn’t want to and he said “well that’s too bad because we are having sex” and forced himself on her. She said she tried to push him off but he was too strong. She said he did the same thing to other girls. His thing was to fk as many freshmen as possible. His dad was a lawyer and he told her nobody would believe her. Interestingly enough this SOB is now a lawyer himself.

Not long after that she met her first husband who was also her first LTR. If I bring up this first incident ever she almost immediately breaks down about it. It seems to still be a very traumatic thing. I’m not sure she’s ever told anyone besides me either.

The second thing I could think of was the guy she was dating literally two weeks before we met. They had been on a few dates and she said nothing happened those times, just hanging out at bars. The last time they went to a few bars and then back to his place. She said he was a pothead and she smoked weed this time. She said it was the strongest stuff she’s ever smoked and that she doesn’t remember anything that happened after. She woke up the next morning in his bed. He said “you were really out of it. You don’t remember we went to the bar next door after we smoked?” and she said no. She said she assumed they had sex and realized they did when she got home and found her tampon shoved up inside her. But then she said to me “I don’t know why he would’ve taken advantage of me when I was willing to sleep with him anyway”. So I kind of discount this story. It’s possible she consented and just doesn’t remember. Idk. When I found out about this incident she also lied and lied about the timeline. She said it was months before we met. After investigating her texts at the time I discovered it was two weeks before we met and while we were already talking. 

I’m assuming maybe these things can affect her view towards sex as though maybe it’s some sort of violation?

As for your #2 point

it seems like she does have these views that sex is embarrassing or dirty now. It’s weird that she seemed to be much less self conscious when we were dating and in the first few years of our relationship. And it pisses me off when I think of how she did whatever all those losers wanted but now acts like Sister Rosemary with me.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> It will be twice burned, three times shy for me. I appreciate what you say but I don't think there will ever be a Mrs. FloridaGuy #3.
> 
> A GF would be far easier to break up with should the need ever arise. And beside, both of my wives have had "Wedding Cakeitis" so the next one will never have cake just to prevent it from happening.


I agree man. This is my first marriage and if it ends it will be my last. I will never ever marry another woman. There’s literally no benefit to it for the man at all. It’s a huge liability.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

jjj858 said:


> I agree man. This is my first marriage and if it ends it will be my last. I will never ever marry another woman. There’s literally no benefit to it for the man at all. It’s a huge liability.


I’m a woman and I see no benefit to it either. I will never marry again.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> The past trauma I can think of for her is she told me she was raped in college and that was literally her first time having sex. She was in a sorority. She was drinking with some guy and he wanted to have sex. She said she told him she didn’t want to and he said “well that’s too bad because we are having sex” and forced himself on her. She said she tried to push him off but he was too strong. *She said he did the same thing to other girls.* His thing was to fk as many freshmen as possible. His dad was a lawyer and he told her nobody would believe her. Interestingly enough this SOB is now a lawyer himself.


Well if she was sexually assaulted, that trauma is with her for the rest of her life. It never goes away. Without treatment to process that trauma, it can effect all of her future with any male (including you). Too bad she and the other girls victimized can't file charges/lawsuit against the perp. These days, past victims have done ok this way putting the bad guys away for a long time and/or receiving monetary compensation for their pain and suffering.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> maybe so but I ne
> 
> 
> The past trauma I can think of for her is she told me she was raped in college and that was literally her first time having sex. She was in a sorority. She was drinking with some guy and he wanted to have sex. She said she told him she didn’t want to and he said “well that’s too bad because we are having sex” and forced himself on her. She said she tried to push him off but he was too strong. She said he did the same thing to other girls. His thing was to fk as many freshmen as possible. His dad was a lawyer and he told her nobody would believe her. Interestingly enough this SOB is now a lawyer himself.
> ...


Maybe one of these days I'll just have to tell my story on these boards. 

You have a similar situation to me. I am still working hard to help my wife and I through it.... but she is working hard as well. She has to be the one that wants to be healed, not you.

My wife was raped in college as well prior to dating me. 6 weeks prior to be exact. She lied to me about it. Told me it was just a bad sexual experience. I listened very, very carefully. Why?

My number 1 rule above all else (well, above all else other than treat others the way you want to be treated)

YOU CANNOT SAVE ANYONE

You can't. Don't try. They will pull you down into their pit of despair. I learned this pretty early on in my life and my wife (girlfriend at the time) found a loophole around my rule by lying to me. I've only learned recently that she feels like she might have been scared to tell me so that she wouldn't lose me. Fair enough. Most likely at the time I would have left, especially in the head space I was in at the time when I was 22 years old. We too had a great sex life the first 2.5 years of our relationship.... then the rape and feeling dirty about sex kicked in (and yes, I still married her anyway, but I'm going to cut my 27 year old self some slack). 

Your wife HAS to want to fix this for herself. You can't do it for her. She needs to want to heal. She needs to want to find an IC that can help. She needs to keep you in the loop (assuming it is important to her to keep you). She needs to find why she feels sex is dirty. You cannot save her. 

The only way I was able to pull the truth from my wife was through indifference. a 20 year old lie. The possibility of losing me. It appears I was important enough to keep in her life, thus she did something about it. I will sympathize and empathize all day with victims of trauma. It is horrendous. It is horrible. I will offer my shoulder to cry on, but you cannot save them. Wanting to heal comes from within. That's life and it isn't fair.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> The fact that you are focused on sex, rather than your wife's revulsion towards you, says much about your understanding of the situation...which is next to nothing.
> 
> I am not trying to belittle you by saying that, but your relationship is borderline (or completely) broken.
> 
> ...


That’s definitely an interesting take and perhaps there is some truth to it. Really it’s not that I’m focused on the sex. I’m concerned about what her reactions signify in the relationship. I’m concerned about what all these limitations she has placed on things signify. I certainly don’t act in any way to her that is repulsive or not respectful. Is it because of something to do with me? Or is it because of some personal issues she has? Maybe it’s a mixture of the two. As of right now it’s still a mystery to me what’s going on in her head.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> Then, after 6 months of her still dragging her feet, I stopped pushing her, and started withdrawing by lowering the thermostat. In other words, I invested into the relationship exactly as much as she was, which was very little. I started preparing for divorce, and doing my own thing without consulting her.



Lots of good points brought up by FSJ, but what I’ve quoted here is the key. This is what I’m talking about getting to the point of indifference. FSJ just has a different way of saying it. He had a different path than what I took to get there. Doesn’t matter, we both arrived at the same point. You have to get yourself to the point that you are willing to leave to go out and find your happiness. Either your spouse gets on the same path as you, or you can go your separate ways. You need to get to the point where you are fine with whatever your spouse chooses.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> That’s definitely an interesting take and perhaps there is some truth to it. Really it’s not that I’m focused on the sex. I’m concerned about what her reactions signify in the relationship. I’m concerned about what all these limitations she has placed on things signify. I certainly don’t act in any way to her that is repulsive or not respectful. Is it because of something to do with me? Or is it because of some personal issues she has? Maybe it’s a mixture of the two. As of right now it’s still a mystery to me what’s going on in her head.


If you didn't act in any way that was repulsive to her, she would not be (or not nearly as) repulsed. Keep in mind that her reaction to you is likely a manifestation of her resentment towards you as opposed to something like how you appear to her. 

Here is an example from my marriage. My wife hates making decisions outside of work. She doesn't want to have to do carry that burden at home unless it deals with things that are specifically within her purview. In the past, I would defer to her because I wanted to try to make her happy. However, this led to pressure for her to make yet another decision.

Part of my process of growth was to stop asking her what she wanted, and start telling her what I wanted, and tell her it was going to happen unless she had an alternative or other input. 

That seems small to me, and it goes against my normal (and often counterproductive) nature of pleasing people, but it is a huge deal to her. It is one of her relationship needs. 

So...what has she complained about to you over the years? Think deeply about it, and list it here. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

One more thing to add.

In this situation, your wife may not be entirely truthful with you in why she is disgusted, because her resentment level is so high that she will grab the most recent thing that comes to mind. 

While this is at least a data point for you, the HD often falls into the trap of thinking that if they fix this one thing, sex will resume. Then when it doesn't, the HD reverts to accusations of moving the goalposts. 

While that is not entirely untrue, it is not entirely true, either. 

Furthermore, your wife may be to the point of resentment for the sake of resentment, which means she may not even be able to communicate all of the reasons she has built her wall. 

This is one reason, among many, that this process takes time. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> The fact that you are focused on sex, rather than your wife's revulsion towards you, says much about your understanding of the situation...which is next to nothing.
> 
> I am not trying to belittle you by saying that, but your relationship is borderline (or completely) broken.


This. The sex is the least of your problems. She doesn’t even like you, and maybe she even actively dislikes you.

Before even thinking about sex if you want to repair it you need to get that sorted. But then again, why bother?

If someone threatened me like she did to you I would be trying to cut her loose ASAP.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> If you didn't act in any way that was repulsive to her, she would not be (or not nearly as) repulsed. Keep in mind that her reaction to you is likely a manifestation of her resentment towards you as opposed to something like how you appear to her.
> 
> Here is an example from my marriage. My wife hates making decisions outside of work. She doesn't want to have to do carry that burden at home unless it deals with things that are specifically within her purview. In the past, I would defer to her because I wanted to try to make her happy. However, this led to pressure for her to make yet another decision.
> 
> ...


My wife complains about things I can't control...politics, world issues, etc. I have no idea how to turn that around??? I wished she complained about other things I could control.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> This. The sex is the least of your problems. She doesn’t even like you, and maybe she even actively dislikes you.
> 
> Before even thinking about sex if you want to repair it you need to get that sorted. But then again, why bother?
> 
> If someone threatened me like she did to you I would be trying to cut her loose ASAP.


part of me wants to believe she just said those things in the heat of the moment because she was pissed at me. I had kind of ripped into her about the lack of sex and stuff from the past. But then again the specificity of the things she said involving divorce and saying she would eff me over and not let me see my son are definitely alarming. Was she just saying stuff she had already been mulling over anyways? That’s what I would gather.

If I ask her about this she’ll just say everything is fine. I learned from my last relationship where I was cheated on that a woman can pretend everything is fine quite convincingly. So it could very well be that she has other plans working in her head that I don’t know about.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> part of me wants to believe she just said those things in the heat of the moment because she was pissed at me. I had kind of ripped into her about the lack of sex and stuff from the past. But then again the specificity of the things she said involving divorce and saying she would eff me over and not let me see my son are definitely alarming. Was she just saying stuff she had already been mulling over anyways? That’s what I would gather.
> 
> If I ask her about this she’ll just say everything is fine. I learned from my last relationship where I was cheated on that a woman can pretend everything is fine quite convincingly. So it could very well be that she has other plans working in her head that I don’t know about.


Heat of the moment? Doesn't matter. An adult that cannot control their emotions and say stupid things can count on winning stupid prizes. What she said is a serious threat.

Look at it this way: What if a man and woman are in a heated argument and the man is just sooooo pissed that he decides to hit the woman. Happened in the heat of the moment. Should we hold it against him? The obvious answer is yes. 

So yeah, you should hold this against your wife for saying a serious threat.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

He’s going off of what I said about my wife who suddenly doesn’t like kissing during sex.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

jjj858 said:


> He’s going off of what I said about my wife who suddenly doesn’t like kissing during sex.


Oh OK, I understand now. Thanks


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jjj858 said:


> Is it because of something to do with me? Or is it because of some personal issues she has? Maybe it’s a mixture of the two. As of right now it’s still a mystery to me what’s going on in her head.


Been there. My wife was "gracious" enough to split the blame 50/50... so I'm not a total bastard, just 50% bastard....


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jjj858 said:


> can you give me a quick rundown of what happened to you or point me to your thread? Did she cheat or did you just get divorced?


uuuuhhhhhh.... how much time do you have? My thread is quite old now. Basically, after the birth of my youngest, my wife started developing mental issues, but she hid the extent of them to me - on purpose or not. It doesn't matter. She started taking anti-depressants, our sex life disappeared. I tried to solve the mystery, but without the complete picture, I made several mistakes: 180, isolating myself from her and the family life, drinking, smoking, moving to the spare room, we were de facto separated. I was angry and desperate. Until I asked her: you either go to therapy or we divorce. She said: I'll go to therapy. She never did, but she decided to have sex with me regularly (she didn't tell me this). I thought things were getting better, but when the youngest was 18 she stopped our sex life, quoting empty nest syndrome, menopause, body image issues and my fiery character as reasons. She did have sex with me to keep the family together. We are still separated. She's moved to the building next door. Basically, during the difficult times, she detached from me. I guess it was because of my behaviour. I had no idea.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jjj858 said:


> Some great advice the last couple of pages. I’ll get into some more specifics to see what you guys think:
> 
> Won’t do oral anymore - recently told me she had the idea in her head that guys use it to degrade women as though it’s some recent experience she’s had and not remembering the many times she did it when we were dating? Perplexing. Like what a weird ****in thing to think all of a sudden? She did do it once recently and said all this after and then said she thought “well you’re my husband so I shouldn’t think that”. Again weird to think all of sudden. Was there some guy forcing her to do bj’s recently that I don’t know about?? And yeah my hygiene is always good. It’s not like I’m mowing the lawn and then asking to be blown.
> 
> ...


She's making sex as unappealing to you as possible while not cutting it off completely. This allows her to believe she's still a decent wife to you and get off when she wants.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

DTO said:


> She's making sex as unappealing to you as possible while not cutting it off completely. This allows her to believe she's still a decent wife to you and get off when she wants.


So what do you think is the deeper meaning behind this? She still acts like everything is ok in our relationship and still maintains that I’m the only one who said I wasn’t happy. So when she says stuff like that but we still have this sexual disconnect it’s really confusing to me. Does she just have deeper issues than I understand?

A few other things worth mentioning,
I do feel like she has some body image issues after gaining 20 lbs during pregnancy and not being able to lose it. She had a bout with post partum after giving birth last year. Then her sibling died. So it was like a one two punch. She then started taking Zoloft without telling me for about four months. She’s been off it since the spring. She’s still on birth control. She maintains that her lack of interest is because of these stressors and not to do with me.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

DTO said:


> This. If she said she felt a spark then talks so much crap about him, what does she think / say about you?


well the texts I saw were from her to a friend talking about her ex husband. At the time she was dating some loser who was the first guy she dated since her divorce. This guy was just using her for sex and broke up with her at a gas station after three months. In the texts she was saying that she “feels so much spark with him and it’s like an electric feeling when we kiss. I never felt that with Ken. Things were just really matter of fact with him. We were just kind of together but I never felt this feeling when I kissed him”.

so what was alarming to me about that was that she was with “Ken” for seven years total, married for three. To me the texts seemed to indicate she was perfectly capable and fine of settling for someone she supposedly felt no spark with? And again their marital issues seemed to stem from him cheating when she wouldn’t sleep with him anymore.

how do I know I wasn’t just another guy she settled for? How do I know she didn’t feel a spark with me?

but then again she was probably talking out of her ass and downplaying her feelings for her ex husband to make herself feel better about the divorce and not feel like it was a failure perhaps.


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

jjj858 said:


> well the texts I saw were from her to a friend talking about her ex husband. At the time she was dating some loser who was the first guy she dated since her divorce. This guy was just using her for sex and broke up with her at a gas station after three months. In the texts she was saying that she “feels so much spark with him and it’s like an electric feeling when we kiss. I never felt that with Ken. Things were just really matter of fact with him. We were just kind of together but I never felt this feeling when I kissed him”.
> 
> so what was alarming to me about that was that she was with “Ken” for seven years total, married for three. To me the texts seemed to indicate she was perfectly capable and fine of settling for someone she supposedly felt no spark with? And again their marital issues seemed to stem from him cheating when she wouldn’t sleep with him anymore.
> 
> ...


This is complex! Her mind is elsewhere. I feel for you.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> So what do you think is the deeper meaning behind this? She still acts like everything is ok in our relationship and still maintains that I’m the only one who said I wasn’t happy.


You just typed out your deeper meaning and you completely missed it. 

This is what happens with the LD spouse. 

The HD spouse needs sex to be happy. 

The LD spouse does NOT need sex to be happy. 

As per usual, the LD spouse does not understand why you can't be happy when they are. It's like a cheater enjoying a one-sided open marriage. It's called cake eating. As long as they are happy, there is no problem. If you ask for sex, in comes the gaslighting with feeling "pressured". Do they really feel pressured? Maybe.... but I have no sympathy. The pressure they feel is nothing compared to the feeling of being unloved in a marriage. Nothing. 
Why LD spouses don't go out and find other LD people is beyond my comprehension. Maybe they do and we don't hear about it. I bet that does happen. If you need to push for something, do that. Let your wife know she can have a wonderful life NOT having sex with another man. They can achieve love for each other in their own way and no pressure to have sex! It should be her utopia. The number of LD men these days is amazingly high. She should have no problem finding someone. In turn, you can do the same. 

Again though, nothing will happen until you take action.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> well the texts I saw were from her to a friend talking about her ex husband. At the time she was dating some loser who was the first guy she dated since her divorce. This guy was just using her for sex and broke up with her at a gas station after three months. In the texts she was saying that she “feels so much spark with him and it’s like an electric feeling when we kiss. I never felt that with Ken. Things were just really matter of fact with him. We were just kind of together but I never felt this feeling when I kissed him”.
> 
> so what was alarming to me about that was that she was with “Ken” for seven years total, married for three. To me the texts seemed to indicate she was perfectly capable and fine of settling for someone she supposedly felt no spark with? And again their marital issues seemed to stem from him cheating when she wouldn’t sleep with him anymore.
> 
> ...


II'm confused why there is such a huge thread jack on the OP's thread.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> well the texts I saw were from her to a friend talking about her ex husband. At the time she was dating some loser who was the first guy she dated since her divorce. This guy was just using her for sex and broke up with her at a gas station after three months. In the texts she was saying that she “feels so much spark with him and it’s like an electric feeling when we kiss. I never felt that with Ken. Things were just really matter of fact with him. We were just kind of together but I never felt this feeling when I kissed him”.
> 
> so what was alarming to me about that was that she was with “Ken” for seven years total, married for three. To me the texts seemed to indicate she was perfectly capable and fine of settling for someone she supposedly felt no spark with? And again their marital issues seemed to stem from him cheating when she wouldn’t sleep with him anymore.
> 
> ...


This sounds like she is just LD for you. This isn't good. Good chance she will eventually cheat.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

OP......how are things going?


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

And I wonder why people keep saying having kids will make you happier? Haha

we have two, and the whole marriage intimacy thing went south rather quickly after the first. The only time we had “regular” sex was when we were trying for the second. Then it disappeared quicker than flying too close to a massive black hole in space. LOL

oh yeah, I can laugh about it now that I have accepted the reality of it. It’s not going change for the better. So I just learn how to deal with it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DLC said:


> And I wonder why people keep saying having kids will make you happier? Haha
> 
> we have two, and the whole marriage intimacy thing went south rather quickly after the first. The only time we had “regular” sex was when we were trying for the second. Then it disappeared quicker than flying too close to a massive black hole in space. LOL
> 
> oh yeah, I can laugh about it now that I have accepted the reality of it. It’s not going change for the better. So I just learn how to deal with it.


It doesn't have to be that way. We managed to keep up a pretty robust sex life while raising 2 kids that are about 2 years apart. Of course it did impact it, but we made an effort to have us time. Now that the kids are out of the house it is a lot easier and frequency has gone up.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> So what do you think is the deeper meaning behind this? She still acts like everything is ok in our relationship and still maintains that I’m the only one who said I wasn’t happy. So when she says stuff like that but we still have this sexual disconnect it’s really confusing to me. Does she just have deeper issues than I understand?
> 
> A few other things worth mentioning,
> I do feel like she has some body image issues after gaining 20 lbs during pregnancy and not being able to lose it. She had a bout with post partum after giving birth last year. Then her sibling died. So it was like a one two punch. She then started taking Zoloft without telling me for about four months. She’s been off it since the spring. She’s still on birth control. She maintains that her lack of interest is because of these stressors and not to do with me.


Excuses, excuses, and more excuses. If a woman wants to have sex with a man she will find every way imaginable to do it. If she doesn’t want to, she will do what you see.

I dont know if your wife loves you. What do YOU think?

I do know that the chances of her becoming attracted to you, and wanting sex with you again are very close to zero and you shouldn’t get overly involved in too much psychoanalysis that won’t really change anything.

Being married to a frigid wife is something to be avoided, not “worked on”. I think there are a lot of things that can be fixed in a marriage…..this really isn’t one of them. I hope I’m wrong.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sounds like there could be more than one thing going on. Was the Zoloft prescribed at least? 

I mean you guys have a 2-year-old and she's a mother now, and that changes you, or it should. She sounds to me like she's maturing and becoming more confident and assertive but it also sounds like she's having some mental stuff that hopefully she's getting treated with by a doctor. It's very common for mothers to have some resentment once they are raising kids just depending on what the circumstances are. Certainly the entire focus changes but you already know that. 

I don't like that she told you it's none of your business about taking the meds; however there are plenty of people who feel stigmatized for getting psychological treatment of any kind and she could be one of those. 

It's not like she isn't talking to you about some of this stuff, but it just isn't what you want to hear. It sounds like she has some things she just wanted to change so that it wasn't the same way going forward forever. 

I don't think mental illness is the cause of that. Do you know if she's in therapy? Maybe she's trying to be more assertive and more honest. 

I would just try to listen if she opens up about any other issues and really try to communicate with her. I mean she is communicating. So I would think it would be okay for you to ask her what she thinks spawned all the changes, but it may just be a combination of motherhood and maturing and coupled with some depression or something. Good luck.


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## Camper292000 (Nov 7, 2015)

Check out avoidant personality. This is quite a painful situation you're in. 

Self respect! Focus on you.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It doesn't have to be that way. We managed to keep up a pretty robust sex life while raising 2 kids that are about 2 years apart. Of course it did impact it, but we made an effort to have us time. Now that the kids are out of the house it is a lot easier and frequency has gone up.


It’s awesome that it works out for you. Glad to hear some success stories.

I think the keywords here is “we” made an effort. I think that’s the key the success.

seems like if one party decided that other things are higher priority, then intimacy as well as the marriage goes south pretty quickly.

too late for us. I hope everybody that’s not at the point of no return can read this, turn around and save themselves.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

I’m still here posting in other threads and such but here’s my update:

-I got a better handle on my retroactive jealousy. It will still be something that will probably always bother me to an extent, but a member here gave me some good counseling on it and it really helped. The main thing is to not give in to the compulsion of wanting to ask questions about her or bring up the past. It just leads to arguments and serves no good purpose in the present. 

But the main reason it flares back up is when I see that she shows no desire for me. So my mind goes back to what I know of her past and stuff like “well she had no problem blowing Tom, Eric, and Dan, before we were together” and then even me at the beginning, so why am I getting a different treatment now? It’s like a breeding ground for resentment. 

-Physically not much has changed. June and July weren’t bad with about four times each month, but still very vanilla. I initiated and brought it up all times. I conducted an experiment after that which was not asking or initiating anything to see if she would show any interest on her own. She didn’t. Granted work and the baby have kept us busy and tired. But even on relaxed days off together she never brought it up. After July we went all of August, September, and into the first week of October before we did again and that was because I finally broke down and initiated again. 

I often wonder how does someone go that long without feeling -any- sexual desire at all? Sure life gets in the way and we get tired. But nearly three months and you can’t set aside thirty minutes for intimacy? You don’t ever feel like “man I’d really like to get off tonight” at any point? Her desire isn’t even low. It appears to be altogether non-existent. We could probably go six months or a year easily if I never brought it up. 

I don’t know how to fix this aspect and I just don’t have the energy anymore to jump through a bunch of hoops trying to do manosphere stuff to get my wife to want me. Funny thing is I really have the feeling that she would be going all out sexually with some new guy if there was one too. I guess this is a LDFY situation. I also can’t bring any of this up to her. She tells me I’m being critical and emotionally abusive if I bring up the lack of intimacy. 

-My ex was totally different. She was very high desire, and would initiate or ask for sex every night. Would do anything I wanted without me even asking. Ultimately she cheated on me and it was a very painful breakup, but I think the frequent intimacy made me feel more bonded to her at the time. 

I only bring that up to show that I know that it is possible to have a partner who wants you all the time. I’ve experienced the flip side of this coin so I know that what I have now is really lacking. 

The lack of intimacy now makes me feel like we don’t have much holding us together except just that we have a house and a kid. 

-Down time still involves a lot of her looking at her phone and not a whole lot of cuddling or anything like that. So idk what to make of that. I do keep tabs on what she’s doing through methods I won’t go into here, and there’s no signs of anything weird so far. I’ve checked phone bill, texts, social media, and her timeline for leaving work always seem to match up with what she’s telling me. If something has been going on she’s been very good at hiding it. The thing is she knows it’s something I’m paranoid about so maybe she would be good at hiding it. She still adamantly claims that she would never ever cheat on me. But I’ve also heard that line before from my ex, who at the end of our relationship, finally confessed that “I’ve cheated on every boyfriend I’ve ever had”. So to be honest I don’t really trust women at all. 

-so what do I do now? 

We get along ok in other aspects as far as day to day stuff goes. I’ve just determined that we are ultimately sexually incompatible. But do I leave and divorce just because I’m not getting the sex I want? I can’t see myself doing that right now. 

I’m not going to let another man raise my son. As someone with RJ the thought of another man in my place is just about my
worst nightmare. There’s so much I want to show him and teach him about becoming a good man. He’s truly the greatest joy in my life I’ve ever known and he’s my biggest priority. 

I’m also not going to let him be exposed to a revolving door of men. If she did that before we met she’d do it again. She’ll let any man who is remotely nice to her and moderately attractive sleep with her without vetting them and then cry about it when they ghost her two weeks later. Remember our first date was literally at her apartment? She picked me up and it was late and she said “everywhere is closed except for bars, we can to my place and watch Netflix if you want”. We made out and I could’ve taken it further but I was respectful. I remember asking “do you bring everyone home on the first date?”. It’s obvious she has poor boundaries when dating. I’m not going to let my son be around that.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Your relationship sounds like trying to swim across a lake with a bowling ball in your anus. You are trying your best to keep your nose above water and that is your unfortunate definition of success. The unfortunate reality is that that’s a poor definition of success.... much like your marital life. If you lower your bar that much ... scraps look good. Get the bowling ball out your butt and breath easy... redefine what is acceptable.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe she wanted a child (actually, a daughter) and was looking for someone to marry her (the others weren’t interested and you were). Since she really, really wants a daughter, sex will likely pick up when it’s time for her to focus on that. IIRC, she’s already told you that she’s gone if another shot at that doesn’t happen. My opinion? You got played.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My take on her is that she played high drive with you and the others in an effort to lock someone down because she wanted (and still wants) a daughter. It didn’t work with them but it did with you. Now she feels she doesn’t have to try anymore — at least not until she’s ready for a second child.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

I am in no position to offer any advice to anyone. Seriously. Really seriously. That being said I am suprised no one has mentioned what I think is the obvious anyway. She is very close with her Mom and was very close with her sister. It's what she knows. Where she probably felt comfortable and loved. Where you you can get angry and compete with one another and know they have your back anyway. That's why she never imagined having a boy.

I mean gender preference is a thing. Look at all those gender reveals where the father stormed off when the pink confetti flies. Look at how mothers used to pray for boys to please the fathers. Its not a good look for her sure but it doesn't mean she is a bad mom to her son or that she wouldn't learn to love the differences between the genders of her kids. 

If she wants to try for another child there is no harm in setting some rules. Not right now until finances are stable. Some demostration of bonding with her existing child. And she acknowledges your need for regular sex life. But to say NO to her face, or go behind her back to prevent pregnancy...likely to not go as planned.

But again, what do I know?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The biggest problem here is not that you lack intimacy with her, but that she stonewalls any attempt to discuss it.

So focus on you. And don't bother keeping her in the loop.

When I was going through this with my wife, I decided to take up BJJ. I was training 4 days a week (M/T/T/S) and found something that was actually more enjoyable than sleeping with my wife, who was at that time pretty retched. 

I would normally ask her prior to doing something like this, just out of courtesy. So I did it without asking. I simply told her I would be doing BJJ and occasional kickboxing three nights a week, and Saturdays. She came unglued. I shrugged my shoulders and told her I was sorry she felt that way, and did it anyway.

She used to like it when I would call to check with her, while on the way home, to see if she needed anything. I stopped doing it.

She liked to know when to expect me home. I stopped telling her.

Bottom line was that I stopped investing into the relationship the things that she needed, and when she raised hell over it, told her a simple statement:

"If you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me."

That is what you can do. Prioritize yourself and your child. Stop prioritizing her. 


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> The biggest problem here is not that you lack intimacy with her, but that she stonewalls any attempt to discuss it.
> 
> So focus on you. And don't bother keeping her in the loop.
> 
> ...


So what's the rest of the story? Did it work?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jjj858 said:


> We get along ok in other aspects as far as day to day stuff goes. I’ve just determined that we are ultimately sexually incompatible. But do I leave and divorce just because I’m not getting the sex I want? I can’t see myself doing that right now.
> 
> *I’m not going to let another man raise my son*. As someone with RJ the thought of another man in my place is just about my
> worst nightmare.


Sorry to hear it hasn't got better, but it's not surprising... The bolded was my main reason I didn't leave either.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m a woman and I see no benefit to it either. I will never marry again.


Maybe...

That notion goes by the wayside when a great catching is to be had.

Once you find yourself hooked, it is near impossible to wiggle free.
The impetus to break free is absent.

You will go crazy thinking some other woman might take him from you.

Ha! Out come those rusty handcuffs.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> I agree man. This is my first marriage and if it ends it will be my last. I will never ever marry another woman. There’s literally no benefit to it for the man at all. It’s a huge liability.


No kidding. Now I need to see what I should be telling my son though.
If I have to be honest, I would tell him not to get marry, and never have kids. It’s not worth it. 
but then, I still have doubt if that’s the way to go.
Not getting married is not the ticket to happiness, nor the other way around.
I don’t know. I don’t think I am wise enough at this point if my life to come up with an answer.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diceplayer said:


> So what's the rest of the story? Did it work?


Yes, but it took 18 months for the full reset and new normal to take place. 

We are happy, healthy, and have a variety of sexual activities. 

More importantly, she actually respects me, which was missing at that time. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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