# Just about had enough



## father_of_2

I'm back! Sorry for the length, but once I started I couldn't stop the flow of information. After about two years since the last time I (39M) was here to ask for advice about my marriage and my wife's (41F) very apparent mental health issues, the past 6 weeks has driven me to really consider divorce for the first time.

You can read the first two parts of my story in my profile.

After Part 2, we continued in MC through the end of 2017 and the counselor got her to understand that perhaps it was the _right_ thing that I took her to the hospital in summer of 2016, that they helped her whether she realizes it or not. This (along with a change in meds) led to things stabilizing and we ended up having a very good 2018 - her mood was stable, she worked very hard to get a middle school teaching certificate and got a new teaching position, which she loved. I don't remember one single significant disagreement in all of 2018 up through January of this year. Our kids (now 8F and 2F) were happy and thriving, our families were happy that everything was going well. We were kind to each other. I (naively, I know now) thought that things had turned around for good.

That's when everything went off the rails. In January of this year, she started saying she needed to take "mental health" days due to stress at work - OK, we all get stressed, so I didn't object, even though alarm bells were starting to quietly go off in my head. Things progressed from one day off here and there to 4 days off a few weeks later due to the stress to full blown panic attacks where she couldn't breathe and her heart was racing so badly she had to lie down. This led to her taking (ANOTHER) leave of absence from work, which ended up extending through the end of the school year and losing her position.

This was her 5th teaching job she's quit due to panic attacks in the 9 years we've been married. Quitting led her into a deep depression - the worst she's ever had - that lasted SIX MONTHS. It was so f***ing frustrating to work my butt off each and every day, and have her lay in bed all day while I cook, clean, take care of the kids. And each time she quits, she blows up our finances and leaves me to pick up the pieces. I was quite angry and bitter at this and kept no secrets about what I was feeling. I make very good money, but we're in a more expensive house in a more expensive area of town and this time I put my foot down. At first, I thought we were going to have no choice but to sell our house if she wouldn't go back to work. But in May I finally sat down and did the numbers - if we stretched, we could make it, but we had to stop all retirement and college investing and no more Catholic school for our oldest - she could go to the public school in our neighborhood (which happens to be a top 3 school in the city, btw). She reluctantly accepted but now the panic attacks changed to being about the change in schools.

During this time of depression, I was accused of numerous things - wanting to leave her, trying to abandon our family, staring at other women all through Disneyland (an ongoing theme if you read the other two posts), and of saying that our marriage "wasn't a lifetime thing." None of these were true.

She lied several times about going to her outpatient hospitalization program to both me and her parents. I scolded her one time and it turned the tide, but only for a short time. The last time she lied about it I was traveling for work and while I was on the plane she texted me that she was leaving... 15 min. later, she texted that she was at therapy (therapy was a good 25 min. away), and sent her dad the same texts. Yet, I could see movement on the motion detector in our house - more than the dog would make! I told her parents that she had lied, they rushed to our house thinking she had f***ing killed herself and found her laying in bed depressed. After that, her dad was at the house every morning to make sure she went to therapy.

End of the summer comes and after trying several medications to get her out of the depression, her doctor puts her on a new med for bipolar depression (will come back to this). She starts coming out of it and starts looking for a new job against the advice of everyone. She lands one teaching 2nd grade. She loves the school, the principal is good, and she's joining a large and supportive team. Depression symptoms disappear. Woo hoo! We're all happy. She was good for about 2-3 weeks...

Instead of going back into depression, though, she ramped even further out of it and into what I can only describe as a manic state. I now know that this is exactly what happened in 2016 and 2017 when she'd come out of similar depressions. She started suffering from insomnia, complaining about co-workers sabotaging her, and at the beginning of October, came home one day and wouldn't talk to me. She went to the bedroom and called her dad. Next thing I know, I'm walking the kids to the mailbox and her dad is driving up to our house. He says that my wife told him I'm addicted to porn, that I've been spending thousands on it. WTF?!?!?

I explained this was not true. He went in and explained this to her. When he left, I had a sit-down with her and asked her to ask me anything she wants to ask - she asks if I'm addicted to porn. "No." She asks if I have cheated on her. "No, I haven't." I ask where this is coming from - she says it's just a feeling she has. I should have taken her to the hospital then and there but I was so pissed at being accused of infidelity AGAIN, that I didn't think about it.

Next day, I'm working in my home office and two people show up at the front door. They say they're from my wife's school and she's having some kind of attack. I look and she's in the lady's car with her head in her hands, looking like she's just absolutely freaking out. I go in to get an anxiety pill thinking it's just another panic attack. When I come back out, she's walking to the stairs and says "It's you! You motherf**ker!!! You're hurting them!!" - long story short, she starts accusing me of hurting our children, she won't take the pill, she crawls up the stairs in hysterics, lays face down on the kitchen floor and starts chanting names - mine, my dad's, her dad's, Donald Trump, etc. as people who are hurting the kids. I call 9-1-1, paramedics and police come, and police end up leading her off in handcuffs and take her to the hospital. While she was in the police car, she doubled down and accused me of not only hurting the kids but touching them as well. She ended up spending 3 nights in the hospital but they wouldn't make a diagnosis. Instead, she somehow convinced the NP there that she was fine and I was the problem!

Since then she's been extremely hostile to me and her dad. Very sarcastic, mocking me, verbally abusive, telling people I made up the whole thing because I want her to be like my schizophrenic mother and put her on more pills. She won’t let anyone (even her mother) tell her she needs to take her meds. I called her doctor one day to report her behavior and his staff stupidly called her phone back instead of mine - this really set her off. She started in on me, calling me a fat motherf**ker, obese, disgusting, a piece of sh*t. Threatening to call a lawyer if I ever call her doctors again. When I told her she was being abusive, she said "then divorce me!!" You name it - she called me it. I have been very cold toward her since that night.

I was even falsely accused last weekend of texting with our daughter's cheerleading coach. She still says I said our marriage wasn't a lifelong thing - I told her no matter how many times she says it, it won't come true.

I've begun seeing a therapist again to keep my own sanity as this is all making me feel quite depressed. He's told me (and my wife's therapist has told me) that she absolutely is bipolar - evidenced by the depression that was resistant to so many drugs and the mania accompanied by delusions. I have no doubt in my mind that this is what I'm dealing with. And I have no doubt in my mind that this is never going to change. We're supposed to go to back to the marriage counselor next week, but I don't know how much good it will do anymore.

Is now the right time to call a lawyer and get a consult? Should I wait until after MC? My worry is that if I start the process of divorce, I will irreparably damage my daughters (my oldest especially). I make enough money to keep the house on my own (my wife doesn't) and I'll be able to move up in my career and make more money if needed. But what would custody look like? What can I do to make sure that my wife's mental health doesn't bleed over into the divorce? How can I minimize the effect on my kids? Is this even the right thing???


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## aquarius1

Disclaimer: I am not a mental health expert. Simply someone who has struggled with mental health issues my whole life.

This sound WAY past mania. WAY past. My sister has done some sh***y things when she was manic but this is really beyond the pale.
You say she has a schizophrenic family member. Maybe it's time some experts considered THAT diagnosis.

Update: Please see a lawyer. Protect your children. She can't help being unwell but you can't fix her and you are condemning your kids to a life of misery. I understand your fear of her suicide but that cannot hold you hostage forever.


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## Rubix Cubed

You need to see a lawyer and get the ball rolling on divorce. Your kids will be far more damaged by you staying in this abusive relationship. They do not need to learn that is normal. You need to ask your lawyer about full custody of your children. If she is allowed any visitation it should be supervised. This is what would be best for you and your children and that is what you should focus on.


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## sunsetmist

Those who have Bipolar illness often stop taking their meds. Is this possible with her? The chaotic life you describe will affect your kids and is so difficult for you. Glad you plan to take positive steps.

IMO: Medical professionals that are familiar with the family need to be answering the questions you ask.

ETA: Read your past post. You had excellent advice from Uptown. Your father took care of your schizophrenic mom for 40+ years. You know that u are not your father and do not have to do what he did. Your wife has been verbally abusive and sometimes physically. This is overall emotional and mental abuse. Take care of you. You can not change her. You know the symptoms of BPD. Again. Take care of you and your children.


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## Tilted 1

I also cannot in good or moral conscience, say stay. From this point anymore subjecting you children to this is madness. You understand this but they will not because they are not capable of understanding this just because they live with her and deal with her mental issues. This is unhealthy for you and them. File and protect your children the courts will probably give you full custody and rights to protect them.


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## Casual Observer

There is no downside to talking with a lawyer to find out what options you have. I hope you have others to talk with as well. You can't go on like this. Nobody can. Your situation has the potential to drag you into depression as well, and you've got two kids to look after.


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## arbitrator

*There is absolutely no reason why you cannot be doing an exploratory with a good family law specialist while actively engaging in dialogue with a marriage or personal counselor!

You need to be in prime position to pull the trigger on the divorce filing if conditions should suddenly warrant it!

Best of luck to you!*


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## anonfrank

OP, I have been where you are. Your wife is bipolar. Mine is, too. OMG reading your post gives me flashbacks. Others can search my post history to read my story.

You did the right thing to get her to the hospital. BE GLAD you have the support of her parents! She will stabilize once on proper meds. If you wish to stay married to her, you CANNOT, under any circumstances, trust her to take her medication. All people with bipolar will want off meds, will lie about going to the doctor, will blame you for their problems, will spend every cent you have without regard to your health or ability to earn.

I also considered divorce but have held off for some time. Here’s what helped:

1. Watch her take and swallow her meds. If you are going to travel, have her parents watch her take her meds. Do this no matter how much she objects, after a while it will become routine and she’ll adjust.
1a. Keep possession of her psych meds. It’s amazing how many times juuuust the psych meds will disappear if she keeps them. Your keeping them someplace you find them makes accomplishing 1. above much easier.

2. Accompany her to her psych doc appointments, that way you are sure she gets there.

3. Depending on your location, a probate court can grant you guardianship over your wife. This makes it easier to get her to the hospital if she falls apart...else she has to be a harm to herself or others to be admitted, and it’s your word against hers. I have guardianship over my wife...but that’s only because her mom didn’t want to do it, so her mom gave me permission.

4. You’ll have to explain things to at least your older girl as it’ll be obvious to her that her mom is not right mentally.

5. Develop a thick skin. Your wife will say crazy **** that’s untrue. Put all that stuff on ignore and your life will be easier.

6. Go to BPSrg . I don’t run it, but it’s an important email-based support group for spouses of bipolar people. 

7. Like you, my in-laws (now just her mom as her dad passed away) are super supportive. Lean on them a bit. Have them take your girls occasionally while your wife is stabilizing. You are all in this together.

Bipolar suuuuuuucks. Gonna be a bumpy ride while she stabilizes. Has been for me and my son, and while things are much better now for us, my wife still has some bad days.

Hope this helps!


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## father_of_2

Thanks all. My mind agrees with all of you. I'm sick of this crap - tired of walking on eggshells, taking the verbal beatings and the public rants and undermining in front of the kids. Example: yesterday, I went to pick up my oldest from school (bc my wife had anxiety about the bus.......) and then she asks me to go pick up the little one because she's tired. She had been up since 3am after going to sleep at 7 for 2 hrs and then 11:30 or so. After I pick up the baby she says she wants to go out to dinner. Fine, sounds good. So, while at dinner, I say when we're ready to buy a new to us car for me in a year or so (we just bought one for her, another ridiculous story from the last few weeks!) I've decided I want to get a BMW X3. So, in front of the kids she says "ok Mr. Money Bags, when were we going to discuss this? You don't get to just decide!" And then started "joking" that we can buy me a car in 4-5 years when she's ready for a new one. WTF? I make 3x what she makes! And is she saying that I am not aloud to have my own thoughts or wants?!

Anyways, getting back to divorce... it makes me very nervous and frankly sad to think about ending it and my kids growing up in a broken household.

I always struggled with women as a teen and into my twenties. I felt lucky to be loved and welcomed by my wife's family, who I really adore and appreciate. Her dad and I get along great, her mom is truly one of the kindest people I've ever met, and her sister is a great person and friend. My heart doesn't want to lose what I feel is my adopted family. And then there are the good days that trick me into thinking things are better.

I'm sure I'm not alone in having conflicted feelings at this stage. My therapist so far has not agreed with going down the divorce route. He has advised calm, not engaging, trying to lead get into a revelation that she needs to take her meds and be consistent about therapy. I feel like that ship has sailed.


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## anonfrank

PS marriage counseling won’t work until the bipolar is better controlled.


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## pastasauce79

I understand your resentment, but you sound like she's in control of her mental state and she's not. She believes and says whatever her mind tells her to say or do. 

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Dealing with a love one with mental health issues is tough. I'm sorry for your wife as well because no one wants to have a mental disease. 

A family member has been taking antidepressants for a while now. This person got into a hypomaniac episode that lasted a few weeks. I've never seen anyone going through one, but I started researching and realized that this person was not in control of her thoughts or actions. The accusations were wild, the actions were wild... It was exhausting!

Once she got her meds adjusted she went back to normal. Hopefully, she'll stay stable for a while. Her having another episode is always an option, though.

I won't blame you if you want to divorce. Has she been diagnosed with anything? What is she taking? 

I agree with another poster that the first thing she needs is to get her meds adjusted by a psychiatrist and get individual counseling to understand what's going on in her mind. 

It could be tough because in her mind she won't trust doctors or family members. They are all trying to hurt her. 

It's very hard what you are going through!


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## sokillme

I hate to say it but it sounds like your wife should be institutionalized again (so they can stabilize her if possible). I forget, was there always signs of this? It's pretty clear she should have never been married and she most certainly not be teaching. Why you folks continue to allow that is beyond me. She obviously can't handle stress so putting her around a bunch of young children makes no sense for anyone, for her and for those kids safety. Assuming she stabilizes, not have her get a much easier job for a start. If that is too much how about putting her into a day program where he gets out of the house. 

You (you, her parents, etc..) need to stop seeing your wife for who you want her to be and see her for who she is. This is probably going to be your life if you stay and even if you don't. This is a very sick person, not a person who is in control of her actions. I would also suggest if you are worried about resentment if you are going to do some tough love, have a plan with her parents so you can deflect the anger to one person (presumably one of her parents) if the expectation is she will return to you and not not all of you. In that way you will have some access when she is cycling. 

Also what are her parents doing showing up at your house even if you were looking addicted to porn? WTF, besides that that story just shows that they don't get how sick their daughter is. Why was the first thought NOT "she is having a manic episode again" but "OH this must be true we need to save the grand kids from Daddy's moral failings". Besides that where do they get off taking your kids? Seriously no wonder she is all screwed up if that is kind of the standard MO. They are more worried about you looking at porn then their daughter losing it?

You need to partner with a mental health professional who can guide all of you through what is normal here and what is the crazy. Think of this like cancer. Find a doctor who is involved and who you can talk to about what's going on and what your treatment steps are. Make sure they know everything. Seems like you have been so long on the roller coaster that you have forgotten that you are being taken for a ride. Which is why you need an impartial observer who can point out to you where you are not seeing it.

Finally you need to STOP TAKING ALL THIS PERSONALLY your wife is very sick, it's time for you to rise above this and take action. Think of your wife like one of your kids right now, when your kids mouth off at you do you take that personally like there is some actual truth in what they are saying or do you understand that their Kid Brain is not fully mature yet. In the same way your wife's Brain is not functioning properly. In that way you need to detach and work on getting her help not worrying about your feeling and frankly hers. Her feelings are not coming from a place of logic or even emotions they are coming from a brokenness in her brain. If she couldn't see the color green would you get upset if she told you some outfit you were wearing clashed or would you just think that was ridiculous? You need to be mentally strong for your family whatever the path that leads you. That means dealing with the sickness not your feelings.


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## Casual Observer

anonfrank said:


> PS marriage counseling won’t work until the bipolar is better controlled.


Is there such a thing as MC designed for partners in which one is strongly affected by a mental illness? In general MC seems to make egalitarian assumptions about a couple.


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## Cynthia

Do you believe that your wife poses a danger to yourself or your children? What could she do that would bring harm to you or the children? If I were in your situation, those are the questions I'd be asking myself, because my first responsibility is the safety of myself and my children. Usually spouses are equally responsible, but your wife doesn't appear able to be responsible for herself or anyone else, so you're on your own in this. Also, your wife's safety is important, but fighting against her to keep her safe hasn't stabilized the situation to a point where you feel safe. 

I understand your frustration over her not working and her lying in bed, but she doesn't appear to be able to help those things. She is in a vulnerable position with her mental illness. You sound like you're angry with her, but that can be counterproductive. She isn't doing these things specifically to you. She is doing them out of the dysfunction in her mind. If you are unable to care for her and help her with that, perhaps divorce would be the best thing. Can her parents become her guardians if she is declared incompetent? Sometimes people like your wife end up homeless because they are unable to manage their lives and unable to work. Perhaps she could be on SSI for mental illness.

Despite your wife being angry with you for calling 911 for help, you have a record that shows she is making things up. That is very important.


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## MattMatt

@father_of_2 families of people like your wife get very little help or support.

https://www.dbsalliance.org/support/chapters-and-support-groups/find-a-support-group/

https://www.mhanational.org/find-support-groups

https://bipolarcaregivers.org/resou...s-dealing-with-bipolar-disorder/united-states

BipolarBlog.com - Worldwide Support Groups for Bipolar Disorder and Other Brain Disorders

I hope the above will be of help to you and your children.


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## sunsetmist

There are degrees of Bipolar disorder and your situation sounds miserable. You have never lived in a mentally healthy home and this makes your decisions more difficult.

My ex had Bipolar II (DSM_IV) and NPD with BPD tendencies. I stayed too long and regret this has affected my children as adults--as wonderful as they are. While married my life was unbearable, miserable, but I was a buffer for him and believed in marriage as a commitment to God. He asked for divorce often, but I plowed on. So he escalated his abusive behavior. In the end divorce was best for us all including him.

Only you can make your decision, but feel no guilt whatever that decision is. Hugs.


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## shortbus

Quick question, you're 39. why in the **** would you want to stay in this?
I'm old enough to be your dad, if you were my son, I'd give you a slap in the back of the head to knock some sense into you.
GET OUT! Get the best custody agreement you can for the sake of the kids, but my god, get out of this!


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## father_of_2

I'm so freaking sick of this crap. (I would say it more colorfully, but not sure if there's a filter on this site...)

This weekend, she has made a few choice sarcastic remarks about dealing with "family stress" and "work stress" and people attacking her, made a remark about my best friend's wife "saying rude things" to her 2 years ago. Otherwise, it had been fairly civil.

Then, tonight I went to Walmart to get a few things, ended up buying a few little things for our daughters - some new night lights, hair ties for the little one, and scrunchies for the older one.

I showed them to her when I got home - she immediately dismissed them - "they dont' need that" "those night lights don't match their room, they're not cute, you can take them back" "she doesn't need scrunchies" "this is a waste of money"

Nevermind the fact that in the past 3 weeks she has spent over $1500 on christmas gifts, none of which was budgeted for. But the $10 I spent was a waste of money.

So I got upset and asked why she was just dismissing what I bought - am I not allowed to buy something for my kids? 
- Her response: "YOUR kids?" 
- I said "OUR kids - am I not allowed to buy something for OUR kids?" 
- So she says "I'm sorry, I can have an opinion! Why are you even getting upset?"
- I repeated that she just dismissed everything I just bought for the kids as a waste of money and how does she think that makes me feel?
- She says my feelings are my own. She didn't make me feel that way. She's been in therapy for the last 5 years because I want her to be so she knows these things
- I say "So, you don't care how you made me feel"
- She says "This conversation is OVER"
- I said "Jesus Christ!!" - she got mad that I took the Lord's name in vein or something like that

The she stormed out of the house saying she was going to "run errands." 30 min later, I get this string of texts:

"I am broken. All the while you continue to chip away at me and break me more. I want you to stop. I will say the same thing in marriage counseling. You are mean to me. You don't like me. That's fine. I am sick and tired of you controlling me. It's not my fault you are overweight. Grow up!!!!
Or boss up
Pick one
This is version number 1 of me as you would say
I am sorry my illnesses have been a burden to you. I'm sorry that losing a child 4 years ago I am not over.............
You are hateful
I am sorry I am so so abusive as you say
And I am not saying opinions FACTS!!!!
And I'm not going to marriage counseling, you go!!!!!!!!!"

On the advice of her dad, I just said "Ok" - they are contacting her to make sure she's safe now.

How do I even respond to that other than just saying "ok"

She took 6 weeks to take a 30 day supply of the new anti-psychotic she was put on when she was in the hospital. Obviously it's not effective. If I call her doctor, I will be vilified even more.

This is an untenable situation and I'm so ****ing tired of it.


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## father_of_2

Sorry for getting graphic here, but I'm venting...

Last night she wanted to be intimate. I didn't refuse, even though I really didn't feel like having sex with someone who treats me with contempt.

She has always asked me to tell her she's "the boss" during sex. Last night was no different, but then as she's about to climax she starts saying "I want you to listen to me! You haven't been listening to me and that really pisses me off!" I just said "ok" and went on but I seriously wanted to stop as I was completely turned off by this. 

Am I wrong that this is abusive behavior? Being bipolar shouldn't give her a free pass to be abusive.


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## In Absentia

father_of_2 said:


> Being bipolar shouldn't give her a free pass to be abusive.



No, but it's obviously an illness and it's not really her fault. She could do much better in controlling it, but it's part of the illness. I can relate to that, because my wife has mental issues and it's not easy. It's really up to you if you want to stay or not for the sake of the children. Personally, I wouldn't (because I stayed and didn't solve anything), but we are all different...


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## snerg

father_of_2 said:


> Anyways, getting back to divorce... it makes me very nervous and frankly sad to think about ending it and my kids growing up in a broken household.



Dumb question. DO you *NOT *think your household broken right now?


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## MJJEAN

father_of_2 said:


> Anyways, getting back to divorce... it makes me very nervous and frankly sad to think about ending it and my kids growing up in a broken household.


Your kids already are growing up in a broken home. This insanity, literal insanity, is their normal. The disaster your marriage has become is their model for an adult romantic relationship. You are dooming them to seeking out something similar as adults by staying. If you're willing to set yourself on fire to keep this woman warm, fine. But at least save the poor kids.


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## 3Xnocharm

snerg said:


> Dumb question. DO you *NOT *think your household broken right now?


I am glad others caught this as well, I was going to post the same thing. 

You have done what you can to help her all this time, and she hates you for it. This environment is toxic for your children, and I think its time you make her responsible for herself and her own actions, and move toward divorce. You do not deserve this abuse, and your kids dont deserve to have to witness it. You should have custody of the kids with her getting supervised visitation. She is so unstable I feel like she is a danger to them. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.


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## Taxman

Sir, you are dealing with a mental patient. I know. We have dealt with a sibling with severe deficits inclusive of Manic Depression, OCD, and BPD. When she is medicated, she can be pleasant, and rather charming. When she is off her meds, she is a nightmare. She used to have screaming fits, in the early morning hours. She was in an apartment at the time, and I was dispatched to keep the world from falling in on her. I arrived to find the door off the hinges, the police restraining her neighbor, and her rocking back and forth. She had started screaming at the top of her lungs at 1am, by 1:15 her neighbor had called police. By 1:30 he had kicked in her door and physically threatened her. By 2AM cops and myself were present. She was hauled off, and she was evicted. This woman, will if left unchecked, assault people, and then run after them with $100 bills to make them like her again. 

I believe that you should be looking at having her committed short term. First have a word with you PCP and a lawyer. I believe you have enough to go before a judge, and have her put into care. We went the route of having a psychiatrist declare her Non compus mentus. Then my wife, and her brother agreed to be custodians. She is now permanently in a facility that enforces her medications as well as other little things like bathing and feeding.

You have a major destructive influence in your home. This is unhealthy for you and for your kids. My children, nieces and nephews have all been affected by their aunt's behavior. This cannot continue.


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## As'laDain

Paging @Akinaura...


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## father_of_2

She has now put me and my daughters in direct danger. I was getting ready to take my oldest to basketball practice and taking the youngest with me.

I went in our bedroom to tell her goodbye and she said "have you been reading my texts?!" I said "no" and she starts asking me if I'm going out partying when my best friend comes to town to go to a concert with me in January. It's about 2 hrs away so I had said earlier this afternoon that we MIGHT stay in a hotel for the night - nothing has been worked out.

I said no we aren't going to go out partying, then she starts saying he can't come to our house because he makes her uncomfortable and starts reciting some supposed incident from 5+ yrs ago that only she remembers. I said we can discuss later and left. 

As I'm driving I keep seeing a torrent of texts and get distracted while driving on the main thoroughfare out of our neighborhood. I hit the curb and the front right tire blows out! I was able to maintain control of the car instead of going into the woods, so we are all safe.

I'm SO TIRED OF THIS ****!!!!!!!!!! I'm calling a lawyer tommorow.

EDIT: To be clear, I understand the incident in the car was 100% on me. I shouldn't have been even glancing over at my phone. I've configured "do not disturb while driving" to avoid anything like this ever happening again.


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## Cynthia

I'm sorry you hit the curb and blew out your tire.

You are aware that it is dangerous to text and drive, yet you did it and are blaming your wife. You do not have to answer every text you receive and you don't have to read texts when they come in, even if they are from your wife. She knows you are driving and if she has a problem with you not responding while you are driving, that is not your problem, it is her problem. Yes, she may try to make it your problem by mistreating you for not responding, but how you respond to that is your responsibility.

I understand that this situation with your wife is stressful, but that doesn't make your choices her fault. I can't remember if you are in counseling, but I would recommend it to help you deal with the stressful situation you are in. Blaming your wife doesn't help you solve the problems that you are facing. It will help you to have some healthy strategies for dealing with the situation you are in.


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## ABHale

Are the kids in any danger from your wife?

That would be my main concern, not if she is abusing you. 

Them seeing your wife go through this is not healthy for them either.


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## father_of_2

Cynthia, you are absolutely right, I should not have even looked at my phone while driving, no matter the context. That is my fault, and hitting the curb is my fault as well. I've now set up "do not disturb while driving" to prevent myself from doing that at all.


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## Cynthia

You sound very frustrated. I'm sorry things are not going well right now and hope you are able to find some solutions that bring relief. 

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## father_of_2

ABHale said:


> Are the kids in any danger from your wife?
> 
> 
> 
> That would be my main concern, not if she is abusing you.
> 
> 
> 
> Them seeing your wife go through this is not healthy for them either.




It's unpredictable, to be honest. Right now, probably not, but if she starts having active delusions again like she did at the beginning of October, absolutely.

I left out some relevant context of that day. She had run out of her school after having a delusion about a note a parent sent. She interpreted a malicious context where there was none, and then started thinking someone was hurting our kids. She told another teacher she was leaving because someone was hurting our kids, called 911 from a school phone, and ran out the door. She was thankfully intercepted by two counselors at the school or I'm certain she would have wrecked the car on the way to her first destination - our daughter's school!

Her co-workers drove her to our daughter's school (they really should have waited for 911 response at their school!) and my wife was about to get out and run into the school. However, she was so out of it by this time, chanting names head in hands, that they wouldn't let her go in. Thank God! Honestly, she could have ended up in prison, the school could have gone on lockdown, and our daughter and her class could have been put in real danger if she'd made it into the school.

They then took her home, which is where I started the story at the beginning of this thread.


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## Tilted 1

It is time to have her admitted, for her own sake. And that of her family.


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## Faithful Wife

I’m sorry you and your fam are going through this. Please call an attorney tomorrow like you said you would. Don’t wait until something worse happens.


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## As'laDain

sounds like she has bipolar type 1... 

type 1 is the kind that comes with psychotic breaks from reality. my wife has bipolar type 1. there have been times, before proper medications, that she has accused me of doing all kinds of things before we even met. as an example, she once accused me of calling her stupid in front of everyone she knows, back in august of 2005. we didnt meet until 2008...

none of this will get better unless your wife gets on the right kind of meds. if she has bipolar disorder type 1, i dont doubt at all that she has practically zero faith in drugs. my wife hated taking medications because they never helped. but, she was being treated with medications that made it worse, for almost a decade. before she was properly diagnosed, she was being treated for depression. the antidepressants were like pouring gasoline on a fire... they made it much worse.

my wife, @Akinaura, also spends money pretty quickly without realizing it. there have been times when she spent tens of thousands of dollars in just a few months without really having anything to show for it. i think the biggest difference between her and your wife, today, is that akinaura is far more self aware. im not entirely sure what changed her mind about seeking treatment, but i believe part of it was me telling her that it would be easier for me to take care of her if we were divorced. that way, she can only spend what the state requires me to send her. 

it can be hard, dealing with mental illness... i feel for you. 

and no. just because my wife sought treatment does not mean you should stay with someone who refuses to do the same. just saying...


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## As'laDain

just wanted to add...

when i asked my wife to comment on this thread earlier, she gave it a quick read and stated "he needs to be carrying around a VAR constantly."

i have hundreds of hours of recordings of akinaura. mainly because i never knew if she she would just snap one day and turn on me. she was all over the damned place for years, so... yeah, i carried a VAR everywhere. i think the last time i felt the need to record her was mid 2016. so, her current treatment plan and medications have kept her stable for longer than any other period during our 11 year marriage. it is working, it just took ****ing forever to figure out.


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## Akinaura

I have been paged, and I'm here.

I have been diagnosed with Bipolar Type 1 disorder. What your wife has, with the paranoid episodes, is mostly like Type 1, which really shows with the paranoid episodes.

Up until March of 2017, I had absolutely NO faith in medications. All they did was make me feel absolutely weird and too happy for my liking. After a week or so, I'd go manic. A prime example was the time they gave me Prozac. I actually sleepwalked for the first time ever in my life. It was horrible. At the time I was in a PHP (partial hospitalization program), and that one clue helped them realize I needed a mood stabilizer plus an antidepressant specifically designed for bipolar disorder.

Once I got on the correct meds, life literally shifted for me. Gone were all the crazy thoughts and the odd mental noise in my head, instead I could think clearly for the first time in over a decade.

My advice to you? Get a freaking VAR. You can download one to your phone that you activate when she's "going off the rails." Next, sit down with a lawyer and do what you can to protect the kids. Tell her you will work with her, listen to her, but she has to go to therapy. If she chooses not to, PROTECT THOSE CHILDREN!!! Next, take those recordings, and have her butt Baker Acted...otherwise known as an involuntary hold. Go with her, support her, show those recordings to the psych evaluator, then partner with the medical professionals. Let them know she is paranoid. She could do serious harm to herself or the children and needs the help.

Anyways, this is my two cents...if you need more specific help, PM and I'll walk you through a lot of the steps.


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## father_of_2

Thank you both so much for your perspectives! I'm glad to know someone else can understand exactly where I'm coming from. I'm sorry you've gone through what you have but glad you seem to have come out the other side with your marriage and friendship intact.

The biggest problem in communicating on the issue with her is that when she is manic she is so obstinate and aggressive when confronted. She will not listen to reason or common sense, especially from me or her dad - in her eyes were are trying to control her. Instead she will start attacking me for being overweight, start saying she had done everything I've asked her to do with going to doctors and getting on medicine and nothing is good enough. And she won't let anyone else speak. She will scream "I'M TALKING!!!" 

If her mom confronts her, she will become sarcastic and dismissive but it doesn't need to be as aggressive to stop the line of questioning.

I have tried telling her if the police had actually believed her, her dad and I would be in jail and the kids would have been removed from the home - that fell on deaf ears. She says she doesn't even remember saying that we were abusing the kids.

I have tried calling her doctor, only for them to call HER phone back and have her blow up at me and threaten to call a lawyer and remove me from the HIPPA form. I haven't tried calling the doctor since.

I have a voice recording shortcut on my phone so I can record those conversations but it can be so unpredictable when they're going to happen that I have yet to capture one. I think I need a separate VAR of some sort.

Bottom line, we need her doctor to give a diagnosis. I think I majorly screwed up by not insisting that I go with her to her NP-psychiatry after her hospitalization. She came home saying she had a plan with him to DECREASE the amount of medicine she is taking. In certain she told him I'd made up the whole thing and she didn't need to have been in the hospital.

I feel like I'm going in circles.


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## As'laDain

get a VAR. record the crazy.


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## father_of_2

And this morning I'm being gaslighted. Our marriage counseling appointment has been scheduled for a month for this evening. I have told her this over and over, and she even arranged a babysitter.

Following her outburst on Sunday night she scheduled dinner with a friend for 7PM tonight - smack in the middle of the appointment. I reminded her of this and she got aggressive, raising her voice and saying until I "change my little behaviors" she's not going to marriage counseling. 

This is so freaking frustrating.

And of course I didn't get it recorded.


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## Taxman

Sir, document, document and document. Record conversations and video if necessary. Present those to your physician and attorney. She is a danger to both herself and you/your children. If she is delusional she should be nowhere near a school. She needs a 48hour psych hold. She needs evaluation and probable forcible medication. You will likely need to have POA, so that you can make rational decisions with respect to her care. It sounds like an amalgam of problems. Good Luck.


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## BluesPower

father_of_2 said:


> And this morning I'm being gaslighted. Our marriage counseling appointment has been scheduled for a month for this evening. I have told her this over and over, and she even arranged a babysitter.
> 
> Following her outburst on Sunday night she scheduled dinner with a friend for 7PM tonight - smack in the middle of the appointment. I reminded her of this and she got aggressive, raising her voice and saying until I "change my little behaviors" she's not going to marriage counseling.
> 
> This is so freaking frustrating.
> 
> And of course I didn't get it recorded.


Listen, I have lived through some of this. So understand, as upset as you are, you have to get your head together. 

Do you understand? Just like the texting and the tire blow out, if you act improperly or do something stupid, THAT is your fault. 

Now, to this post you wrote. Everyone can see how irrational and unstable she is. YOU CANNOT FIX THIS, and you cannot even help if she will not let you. 

DOCUMENT, on paper and through recording the audio at least and FILE FOR DIVORCE. 

You really do not need to go to MC, you need to go to a lawyers office and file for divorce. 

Like I said, I have been through this stuff, you can waste your life, trying to get her to get help, or you can leave the marriage. 

Because I have never in my years seen anyone fix another person...


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## Marduk

3Xnocharm said:


> Tease...


I have very specific and perhaps unhelpful advice about dealing with mental illness in relationships.

It is essentially: they get it under control or you leave. Or: you get it under control (if you're the one with the illness) or you leave.

The only path to staying with someone that can't or won't manage their illness, is you will eventually lose touch with reality yourself, get traumatized, and not be able to help yourself or anybody. It's quite literally a 'put your own oxygen mask on first' kind of situation.


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## BluesPower

Marduk said:


> The only path to staying with someone that can't or won't manage their illness, is you will eventually lose touch with reality yourself, get traumatized, and not be able to help yourself or anybody. It's quite literally a 'put your own oxygen mask on first' kind of situation.


I like the way that you put this., And, it is completely true. 

With my ex, She make me think that I was crazy, and I did too. I started wondering if I was really crazy or had some type of disorder that I did not know about. 

But, my rational mind, would always pull me back and say, look you are not crazy. 

When she finally got sober for the moment, the told me that she had been abusing her meds for close to 20 years. She as an expert at it, and for whatever reason, I could not really prove or understand what was going on. Until then... 

So she was a bi polar, hidden drug addict, the whole time. I was never going to get her to straighten up and get help. 

It took 2 years for me to wrap my head around what I had just been through. I think I had mild PTSD. 

Once I dealt with the mind ****, I filed for divorce...


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## Marduk

BluesPower said:


> I like the way that you put this., And, it is completely true.
> 
> With my ex, She make me think that I was crazy, and I did too. I started wondering if I was really crazy or had some type of disorder that I did not know about.
> 
> But, my rational mind, would always pull me back and say, look you are not crazy.
> 
> When she finally got sober for the moment, the told me that she had been abusing her meds for close to 20 years. She as an expert at it, and for whatever reason, I could not really prove or understand what was going on. Until then...
> 
> So she was a bi polar, hidden drug addict, the whole time. I was never going to get her to straighten up and get help.
> 
> It took 2 years for me to wrap my head around what I had just been through. I think I had mild PTSD.
> 
> Once I dealt with the mind ****, I filed for divorce...


My ex had me 100% convinced I was going insane. She had a psych degree, and loved to 'diagnose' me. And would pick stuff out that would back up her 'diagnosis.' She spent months at this. And I trusted her - and there's some mental illness in my family - so I believed her. She had me convinced I was depressed, self-destructive, and had something called 'passive dependent syndrome:' https://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/dependent-personality-disorder#1

I actually had to go to two therapists for a long time after we separated for them to convince me I didn't have something wrong with me. Even though in every other measure except my wife's opinion I had no symptomatic or problematic behaviors. I not only kept the job I had, I got several promotions. And then a new job. I not only kept practicing and teaching martial arts, I got promoted. I not only kept my friends I had while married, I got more of them. I bought a new car. I built a new condo. Etc.

My only real problem it seems, was believing my ex wife.

Turns out...

Schizophrenia runs in her immediate family, and kicks in at almost the exact time when we ran into problems, and with similar outcomes with women in her family.

I'm not saying she has it - I honestly don't know - but I do wonder.


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## In Absentia

Marduk said:


> I have very specific and perhaps unhelpful advice about dealing with mental illness in relationships.
> 
> It is essentially: they get it under control or you leave. Or: you get it under control (if you're the one with the illness) or you leave.
> 
> The only path to staying with someone that can't or won't manage their illness, is you will eventually lose touch with reality yourself, get traumatized, and not be able to help yourself or anybody. It's quite literally a 'put your own oxygen mask on first' kind of situation.



I agree with this... I've been there, although in a far less sever situation, and I'm still there... it's untenable.


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## nekonamida

Father, what is your game plan here? Because right now, I see you trying things that don't and can't work because your wife is refusing. She obviously needs serious medical help but you CAN NOT make her get it. And it has blown up in your face every time you've tried. So stop doing things that are making the situation worse. No more MC. No more meddling in medical affairs. No more threats of police involvement unless she is actively physically hurting herself or others.

That said, you CAN NOT stay because she is making the environment extremely dangerous for you and your kids. She has done things that could get your children taken away multiple times. She has started convincing other people that you're the crazy, abusive one AND IT IS WORKING. That is terrifying. Aren't you scared of what the next accusation can bring? So why aren't you separating yourself from her?

Go to that lawyer appointment. Your kids are living in this broken home with you and it is always better to be from a broken home than living in one. They need stability. They need one sane, happy, healthy parent. Right now they have NO ONE. Not you. Not her. Not anyone. One parent is better than none. You're the only one who can be there for them and you can only be there if you yourself aren't spending all of this time and energy on your wife.

I can tell you feel guilty. I can tell you really do love her when she isn't like this. I can tell that you don't want to leave. But honestly, you have to realize that the wife you have today is the wife you will always have and the only one who could possibly ever bring the woman you married back IS this new, crazy, abusive woman. You can't rely on her for that. So grieve the marriage. Grieve the wife you thought you had. Deal with the wife you have today and protect yourself and your kids from her.

Divorcing isn't necessarily the end. It could lead to her getting help. She is not a lost cause BUT that does not mean you should stick around and find out. For whatever reason and through no fault of your own, YOU have become a trigger for her. Your presence is making this worse. Your actions to try and help her are making things worse and have the added bonus of putting yourself and your kids in danger. The best thing you can do for her is to take the kids and separate. After that, she will either get the help that she needs when she's ready or she will implode and you and the kids won't be caught up in it. You can always think about re-integrating once you are sure she is safe and ready for it. You have less to lose than you think and a hell of a lot more to gain by choosing to put physical distance between you, your kids, and her.


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## nekonamida

Marduk said:


> I have very specific and perhaps unhelpful advice about dealing with mental illness in relationships.
> 
> It is essentially: they get it under control or you leave. Or: you get it under control (if you're the one with the illness) or you leave.


This isn't unhelpful at all and why the mantra in the mental health community is quickly becoming, "You are not at fault for your mental illness but you are responsible for it." What is unhelpful is telling someone who is currently being abused to suck it up and weather the storm because their partner has a diagnosis. OP is being abused and he is at the point where either she gets help now or he leaves.


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## Marduk

nekonamida said:


> This isn't unhelpful at all and why the mantra in the mental health community is quickly becoming, "You are not at fault for your mental illness but you are responsible for it." What is unhelpful is telling someone who is currently being abused to suck it up and weather the storm because their partner has a diagnosis. OP is being abused and he is at the point where either she gets help now or he leaves.


I have a close family member with serious mental illness (I've discussed here) and been told I'm a coldhearted ******* many times - because her method of managing her illness was to have us manage it for her by doing everything the way she needed it done, so we wouldn't "trigger" her. I played into it, until I couldn't. I see it for what it was, and once I had kids I needed to keep them the hell away from it. So I've had to pretty much exit that relationship in any meaningful way. In the meantime, she's surrounded herself with people that enable her and play into it, and she's continued to go downhill as a result.


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## father_of_2

Just got back from the MC appointment, which I went to by myself.

She gave me the same advice that you all have, and gave me a card for a lawyer she recommends. I'll give him a call as soon as my wife isn't around, which might not be until Monday.


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## father_of_2

Well I finally was able to record one of her outbursts on my phone. She stormed out the door and went for a "drive" and is now sending me a long string of harassing texts.

This one was started by her watching Dateline and seeing someone arrested, giving her flashbacks to bring handcuffed and brought to the hospital. She then proceeded to tell me (recorded) that they told her I was trying to make her look bad and she didn't need to go to the hospital.

Delusional...


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## 3Xnocharm

Well good, I’m glad you were able to finally record something. Did she know you were doing that? Not that it matters. She really is seriously ill. 



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## father_of_2

No, she didn't know I was recording. She really is very sick. And this morning she had continued the animosity, giving me orders and generally being pretty damn mean.

And she seemed to get mad/annoyed that I didn't tell her I loved her before leaving to Lowe's ("is there anything you want to say to me?" just as I'm leaving). 

Trouble is, I don't feel a whole lot of love and I certainly don't feel loved by her. So why would I offer that up?


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## BluesPower

father_of_2 said:


> No, she didn't know I was recording. She really is very sick. And this morning she had continued the animosity, giving me orders and generally being pretty damn mean.
> 
> And she seemed to get mad/annoyed that I didn't tell her I loved her before leaving to Lowe's ("is there anything you want to say to me?" just as I'm leaving).
> 
> Trouble is, I don't feel a whole lot of love and I certainly don't feel loved by her. So why would I offer that up?


Actually, no. The trouble is that you have not filed for divorce before now. You could be the dumbest, ugliest, moron in the world... And you would never deserve what she is doing to you everyday. 

Good God Man, save yourself...


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## father_of_2

Thinking back on it - 

I should have been stronger and stood up to her when she started with the verbal abuse when she was in the hospital. 

I shouldn't have even let her come home! I should have insisted she go stay with her parents until she stabilized - and absent any stabilization I should have gotten a restraining order to prevent her coming near me or the kids.

How could I let her accusation of me abusing the kids slide? Why did I let her back in this house?!

I am starting to feel that my IC let me down by advising me to try to reason with her, try to manage her medications, try to help her.

My new IC (who, ostensibly, was supposed to be our MC!) has helped me in just two sessions to realize that I don't deserve this treatment from my wife. I don't deserve to be accused of abusing my kids. I don't deserve to be verbally and emotionally abused. I don't deserve to be subject to her roller coaster of moods.

I have worked hard to better myself to be able to provide for my family - I got a master's degree, I am a Director in my field, I make great money, I bought us a great house, I am a very involved dad, and I have been an outstanding and supportive husband.

I deserve better!


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## 3Xnocharm

You absolutely do!


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## MattMatt

@father_of_2 *You* put your children at risk by driving whilst texting. Your wife didn't do that, *you* did that.

Don't ever do that again, please.


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## aquarius1

BluesPower said:


> Actually, no. The trouble is that you have not filed for divorce before now. You could be the dumbest, ugliest, moron in the world... And you would never deserve what she is doing to you everyday.
> 
> Good God Man, save yourself...


And your KIDS!


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## father_of_2

MattMatt said:


> @father_of_2 *You* put your children at risk by driving whilst texting. Your wife didn't do that, *you* did that.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't ever do that again, please.



You're right! I have already taken steps to ensure I don't text (or try to read texts) while driving, enabling "Do Not Disturb While Driving" on my phone. That was 100% on me.




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## father_of_2

Hope you all don't mind if I just journal here a bit. Today was another day of animosity and I would appreciate a place to vent.

Started out OK, aside from her dumping negativity on me about her co-workers via text.

I went to my very first CrossFit 101 induction session, which was great but now I'm incredibly sore (need to hydrate better I think and also I'm very out of shape).

Got a call from my wife afterwards that 8 year old's school called to say that she has a fever and probable strep and needs to go home. Wife wasn't able to go due to an appointment of her own so I said I would. Had to cancel a couple meetings but no big deal. Went and picked her up, got her in to her pediatrician, confirmed strep. Daughter was freaking out about taking motrin and about the doc cleaning her ear wax, literally screaming. I tried calming her down by encouraging her to be brave, telling her to breathe, etc. It was rough.

So I texted my wife what was going on - her temp, the strep diagnosis, and DD freaking out. Wife proceeds to tell ME to calm down, and sends about 10 texts saying that's DD's fear, we all have fears, etc. FFS, I was just telling her what was going on. So I refrained from texting any more until we left. (And no texting while driving!)

My wife went home from her appointment, didn't pick up the baby, which is understandable considering the dental work she'd just had done, but texts me she's picked up dinner for everyone, which I thought was great considering I still have to pick up DD2 and get DD1's Rx filled.

So I fight traffic for 45 min and drop DD1 off at home. Then I turn right back around and go pick up DD2. On my way there, wife texts me asking to get her a pie. She "deserves" it. I say ok, I'll get it in between dropping off Rx and picking it up.

I finish all of these tasks and finally get home at 7:45pm, after being on the road or in doctors offices or working out since 1:15.

I go to get some of the dinner she said she got - there was one chicken tender and a tiny bit of mashed potatoes left. So I went and said "I thought you said you got dinner for everyone?" She said "I said I got everyone sides"

Irritated, annoyed, hungry, and tired, I just stopped talking, turned around and walked back to the kitchen, prepared to just go get myself something. She's yelling out she'll go back and get me something. I said don't worry about it.

She comes out and starts in on me - she doesn't know why I have to get so mad all the time (I said I wasn't getting mad), why can't I just scrounge something up to cook from the random assortment of foods in the pantry (I really didn't feel like cooking!), and she's sick and tired of me getting all mad.

So, again, irritated, annoyed, hungry, and tired, I said "yeah, well I'm sick of you" followed by "and I'm sick of the way you treat me."

I immediately regretted it - not because it's not true but because it's out of character for me to say something so blatantly mean and hurtful and I knew it would get out of hand.

She says "I'm sick of the way you treat me! It goes both ways!" and then started ranting about me saying that when the kids are around (DD1 was playing in another room, DD2 was watching iPad so neither heard), then said she doesn't even want the pie I got her anymore, etc. and storms off to the bedroom.

She then texts me from the bedroom that if I'm sick of her I don't need to go to her work Christmas party anymore. Emotional blackmail as far as I'm concerned, just like punishing me for her hospital visit by not going to a concert I've been looking forward to for 10 years and threatening not to buy me a Xmas gift after her last outburst on Saturday.

I felt bad about what I said so I went in about 15 min later and apologized for saying I was sick of her. It was mean, and I was being reactionary. She half-heartedly accepted and we haven't said 2 words since.

A big part of me thinks I shouldn't have apologized. She's said sooooo many hurtful things and made so many false and heinous accusations that I shouldn't feel bad for saying something back to her, but I am trying to act civil so there's nothing for her to counter me with later.

I haven't had a chance to reach out to a lawyer yet, and truthfully I'm a little scared to make that leap. But I know it's what I have to do.

Oh, and my dad bought me a VAR. Got it from him today, and will get it set up tomorrow.


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## 3Xnocharm

Honestly I don’t think you should have apologized. You can be civil without offering up an apology for something you’re not really sorry for. She had it coming. 


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## aquarius1

You are human. Exhausted, hungry and literally worn out. You lost it and honestly had every right to. You apologized because you are a good person who acknowledged your misstep. Keep taking the high road.

However, get yourself to a lawyer NOW. this will eventually break you and with it, your children.

There are several men here who have put up with SO much from their mentally ill partners. They stayed, tried to help and fix things and lost DECADES of their lives only to realize they made a HUGE mistake. It is not yours to fix. And you are creating a situation for your children that could result in their long standing disfunction as adults.

As a mental health sufferer for all of my adult life i can tell you this. If she is actively working on treatment, great. Get support from outside the marriage from people trained in this. Sometimes It takes a long time to get an appropriate diagnosis and find a balanced treatment.
If she is NOT actively seeking treatment, WHY NOT?
You have a responsibility to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
You are a good person. Do the right thing for everyone (including her) and file.


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## father_of_2

She isn't seeking treatment because she doesn't believe anything is wrong with her. She believes I made up her psychotic breaks in 2016, 2017 and this October. And that I'm the one "not listening" to her and "not defending" her.

What is just mind boggling to me is how her employer could let her just come back to work the day after getting out of the hospital like nothing happened. Or how her NP-psychiatry could say "ok take the Abilify for 3 months and then come back and see me" or how her therapist could agree with her not coming back for a month when she she was just hospitalized on a 72-hr psychiatric hold by police!

My therapist says she needs to see a real live psychiatrist, frequently, and needs to be formally diagnosed with bipolar. But there's no way I would be able to get her to go. She's so hostile and opposed to any suggestion I make regarding her mental health, saying I just want her to be like my mother - I would never my mother's illness on my worst enemy!!


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## BluesPower

Please read your last post (the post where you are venting about the evening and being on the road). Carefully.... 

If you cannot see how insane she is, and how insane you are for staying in this marriage one minute longer than you have too...........

THEN YOU SHOULD CHECK YOURSELF INTO A MENTAL HOSPITAL TODAY... 

Just the "I said I got SIDES For everyone" is really all you need to know. 

She is bat **** crazy....


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## Taxman

Sir, let me put this in no uncertain terms. You are living with a keg of gunpowder. The slightest spark will set it off. I urge you to see a lawyer, and have POA papers drawn up. You need to be talking to professionals in order to get her put in hospital, and properly diagnosed and medicated. She needs to be locked up. I have witnessed the destruction of my exBIL plowing his car through an unsuspecting pedestrian, while in an unmedicated rage state. Yes, my wife's mentally ill sister's ex committed vehicular manslaughter. He did it wilfully. He attempted to fight the police as they were arresting him. We are Canadian, and he was held at "her majesty's pleasure", meaning that he could be held indefinitely. The police would not charge him as there was little chance of conviction. He was held in a locked psych facility. His family was sued for wrongful death. He took the life of a young man who had just gotten married. He destroyed several families in doing so. He spent two years in a psych facility and was released to a halfway program. He is free as long as he stays medicated and his PO/Social worker do random testing, and surprise visits. During this time we had his marriage to my SIL annulled. His medication was stabilized during those two years, and he is now very aware that he committed manslaughter during his psychotic break. Yes, he is extremely guilty. He will have to carry that for the rest of his life.

As someone who is experienced at dealing with this, I urge you to take some radical steps before something unimaginable can occur. Had we and his family acted earlier, a life could have been spared. We each carry a modicum of guilt, as we knew we had a loaded weapon, and were convinced that the "safety" was on. We were horribly wrong.


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## As'laDain

Keep the VAR on you at all times when around her. It is the only way you will be able to prove to a professional what her normal behavior actually is...

I had to do this with my wife...


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## farsidejunky

father_of_2 said:


> She has now put me and my daughters in direct danger. I was getting ready to take my oldest to basketball practice and taking the youngest with me.
> 
> I went in our bedroom to tell her goodbye and she said "have you been reading my texts?!" I said "no" and she starts asking me if I'm going out partying when my best friend comes to town to go to a concert with me in January. It's about 2 hrs away so I had said earlier this afternoon that we MIGHT stay in a hotel for the night - nothing has been worked out.
> 
> I said no we aren't going to go out partying, then she starts saying he can't come to our house because he makes her uncomfortable and starts reciting some supposed incident from 5+ yrs ago that only she remembers. I said we can discuss later and left.
> 
> As I'm driving I keep seeing a torrent of texts and get distracted while driving on the main thoroughfare out of our neighborhood. I hit the curb and the front right tire blows out! I was able to maintain control of the car instead of going into the woods, so we are all safe.
> 
> I'm SO TIRED OF THIS ****!!!!!!!!!! I'm calling a lawyer tommorow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While she shouldn't be texting you, YOU shouldn't be reading them.

Recognize what is yours to own. 

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## Cynthia

farsidejunky said:


> While she shouldn't be texting you, YOU shouldn't be reading them.
> 
> Recognize what is yours to own.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


They have children and therefore will have to communicate, such as when their daughter was ill. If he can't be reached, that would be a problem. However, responding to texts that aren't child related isn't necessary. 

Except that he has not made up his mind about what he's going to do. Ignoring her, but otherwise not making any solid move seems passive aggressive. It's time to make some decisions about how you are going to deal with the situation and to put a plan in motion. Dangerous situations are not resolved through ignoring them. 

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## Marduk

father_of_2 said:


> She has now put me and my daughters in direct danger. I was getting ready to take my oldest to basketball practice and taking the youngest with me.
> 
> I went in our bedroom to tell her goodbye and she said "have you been reading my texts?!" I said "no" and she starts asking me if I'm going out partying when my best friend comes to town to go to a concert with me in January. It's about 2 hrs away so I had said earlier this afternoon that we MIGHT stay in a hotel for the night - nothing has been worked out.
> 
> I said no we aren't going to go out partying, then she starts saying he can't come to our house because he makes her uncomfortable and starts reciting some supposed incident from 5+ yrs ago that only she remembers. I said we can discuss later and left.
> 
> As I'm driving I keep seeing a torrent of texts and get distracted while driving on the main thoroughfare out of our neighborhood. I hit the curb and the front right tire blows out! I was able to maintain control of the car instead of going into the woods, so we are all safe.
> 
> I'm SO TIRED OF THIS ****!!!!!!!!!! I'm calling a lawyer tommorow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gently.

She didn't put your kids in danger. You did, when you read them while driving. 

Don't get caught up in her delusions and drama. You're better than that. At the very least, enable the distracted driving feature in your phone.


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## Marduk

father_of_2 said:


> She isn't seeking treatment because she doesn't believe anything is wrong with her. She believes I made up her psychotic breaks in 2016, 2017 and this October. And that I'm the one "not listening" to her and "not defending" her.
> 
> What is just mind boggling to me is how her employer could let her just come back to work the day after getting out of the hospital like nothing happened. Or how her NP-psychiatry could say "ok take the Abilify for 3 months and then come back and see me" or how her therapist could agree with her not coming back for a month when she she was just hospitalized on a 72-hr psychiatric hold by police!
> 
> My therapist says she needs to see a real live psychiatrist, frequently, and needs to be formally diagnosed with bipolar. But there's no way I would be able to get her to go. She's so hostile and opposed to any suggestion I make regarding her mental health, saying I just want her to be like my mother - I would never my mother's illness on my worst enemy!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When you live with someone with unmanaged insanity, you have two options:

1. leave

2. go insane yourself

I guess it's time for you to pick one.


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## father_of_2

Yesterday was an OK day. No fighting or hostility, aside from her complaining about get co-workers again.

Today has already started out ugly.

One thing I haven't talked about is the complete lack of assistance I have been getting from her with the girls lately.

During her deep depression the first 5-6 months of this year, I did practically everything - getting the girls fed and bathed, putting them to bed, getting them up in the morning and getting them ready for school, and then taking them to school. Then I would work a full day and have to go pick them up from school, make dinner, etc., etc., etc.

This improved over the summer as she started pulling out of the depression. When school started this year, she would set out clothes for the girls, get the older one up, and get her started, them leave for work. I would get the baby up and get her dressed and then take them both to school. She would pick up the baby from school, we would trade off making dinner, and then split bedtime duties.

This was a great arrangement that worked well for us.

Since she had her psychotic break and went to the hospital, that has changed. Along with her hostility and volatile mood swings, she has stopped helping with the girls. We're back to me doing everything. Difference being that this time she's wrapping herself up in work, creating drama for herself there, and stressing about it non-stop, leaving her ready to go to bed at 5pm when she gets home. She then wakes up at 7, doesn't help with bedtime and gets irritated if I ask her to help, and then either stays up "working" or reading her devotional over and over until 2-3am or falls asleep again at 9-10pm only to wake up at 3-4am to start the cycle all over again.

This morning, after waking up at 3 or 4am, she decided to leave an hour early, didn't tell anyone goodbye. She had promised to give DD1 a shower this morning because she was too tired to do it last night. I woke up at 6:30 and realized she was gone, had to rush to get DD1 in the shower, get them fed, dressed, and off to school.

So while DD1 was showering I texted her:

"Why did you leave so early? Without saying goodbye? You promised to give DD1 a shower this morning."

Next thing I know, she's calling me. I shouldn't have answered. She says she forgot she was going to give her a shower, she had to get to school and make copies because her co-workers are on her back, that someone mysteriously put a bunch of papers in her box. She's getting attacked at school, attacked at home, and she's so sick of it.

I said, you've been leaving me to do everything with the girls. I didn't get any more words out because she laid into me yet again, about people at work stressing her out, me stressing her out, she spent an hour doing dishes the other day, etc. and then hung up.

Since then she has sent another torrent of harassing texts:

"You're sick of me remember? DD1 even heard you.
YOU STOP
FIGURE IT OUT BIG DADDY
please stop texting me
Goodbye
I left to work early. I'm sorry!
Last semester you were yelling at me for not going to work. Now today you are getting after me for leaving early for work.
I can't make you happy!
I get it now"

I haven't responded. And the only response that even comes to mind is to tell her she needs to go stay with her parents for a while.

Calling a lawyer today! For real this time.


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## 3Xnocharm

Please do call that lawyer. Make sure you save all texts, emails, etc and document everything that goes down at home too. You could try telling her to stay with her folks for a while, but honestly it sound like she needs to be institutionalized for a bit instead. I am sorry you are dealing with this.


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## father_of_2

Ok, I've left messages with three different highly rated lawyers in my area. Hoping one of them will be a good fit.

Do any of you have any advice on how to go about this? How do I evaluate the lawyers I speak with aside from cost. I'm guessing I need to share the entire story with them once I've hired someone, but how do I condense it to ensure they know what's going on, what they're up against, and know that they'll need to fight tooth and nail to get 100% custody?


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> Ok, I've left messages with three different highly rated lawyers in my area. Hoping one of them will be a good fit.
> 
> Do any of you have any advice on how to go about this? How do I evaluate the lawyers I speak with aside from cost. I'm guessing I need to share the entire story with them once I've hired someone, but how do I condense it to ensure they know what's going on, what they're up against, and know that they'll need to fight tooth and nail to get 100% custody?


They definitely need to know that your wife is mentally ill and you don't think she is a fit parent. They will ask you questions pertinent to the discussion. Take any paperwork you have to prove your point.

Buy a book on divorce in your state, so you know how it works. That way you will not be asking questions you could have got the answer to for $24.99, rather $249.99.


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## father_of_2

Had a feeling I should check her meds today. Two of her prescriptions she received on 10/14 and both have double digits pills left.

Another she got 12 days ago and had only taken 8 of them.

Clearly she is not in compliance with her doctor's orders. But I'm done trying to manage it for her. It's her cross to bear and if she can't stay compliant, I will not allow her access to the girls once things get started.


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## Cynthia

I recommend you make an exit plan and prepare to get a permanent restraining order before you tell her what's happening, because she could go ballistic on you and you could end up in jail based on her accusations. There's no telling what she might do if you are able to legally keep her away from the children. This is a volatile situation. Talk this through with your attorney. This is not going to be a standard divorce and custody arrangement. 

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## Cynthia

Also, she will at least get supervised visitation and depending upon the state, her parents may be able to get visitation as well. Your children will want to be able to see their mother.

All of these issues will be addressed through the process. 

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## farsidejunky

father_of_2 said:


> Had a feeling I should check her meds today. Two of her prescriptions she received on 10/14 and both have double digits pills left.
> 
> Another she got 12 days ago and had only taken 8 of them.
> 
> Clearly she is not in compliance with her doctor's orders. But I'm done trying to manage it for her. It's her cross to bear and if she can't stay compliant, I will not allow her access to the girls once things get started.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Document. Document. Document.

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## father_of_2

Cynthia said:


> Also, she will at least get supervised visitation and depending upon the state, her parents may be able to get visitation as well. Your children will want to be able to see their mother.
> 
> All of these issues will be addressed through the process.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk




Don't get me wrong, I want them to have a relationship with their mother. I don't WANT any of this drama and strife. I want stability, which I'm rapidly understanding she can't provide.


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## father_of_2

More animosity tonight! I hurt her feelings by guilting her for leaving early and not giving DD1 a shower. Sarcastic remarks that I "do eeeeeverything." Saying she was up for hours the other night cleaning up the office, which I couldn't be bothered to do while I'm working. Then starts sarcastically saying I'm soooo engaged alllll day and insinuating that I don't do anything when I'm working from home. Disrespectful to the end.

Nevermind that the office (my place of business!!) was clean until she trashed it in one of her late night manic sessions of “cleaning the closet,” which consisted of taking everything out of the closet and leaving it for weeks, all the while telling me there was a method to her madness. And she turns it on ME that it wasn’t clean?!

She also tried to start something earlier too after I ordered dinner, dished it up for everyone after volunteering to pick up both kids. 

Kids were around so I had no intention of getting into it. She made remarks like "I guess someone got up on the wrong side of the bed today, wouldn't you agree?" I said "no, I wouldn't agree at all" and then she started saying I don't even like her and I love my best friend and his wife more than her. At which point I said "that's enough" she kept going so I raised my voice louder and said "that's enough" again. She walked away still saying the same garbage to herself.

She’s now left to “run errands” again.

Unfortunately didn't get any of these conversations recorded 

I should start carrying around the VAR.


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## farsidejunky

That you aren't carrying that VAR yet shows you don't truly grasp the magnitude of the situation. 

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## aquarius1

farsidejunky said:


> That you aren't carrying that VAR yet shows you don't truly grasp the magnitude of the situation.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


This is my fear. This could all go so horribly wrong for him based on her instability. And those children will be the big losers.


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## father_of_2

Ok, I have the VAR set up and ready to record. I will be carrying it with me whenever she's around.

This morning I missed recording her yelling full bore in the face of DD1 because she was taking too long to get her jacket before her basketball game, driving DD1 to tears. I put a stop to it right then and there. Told her she doesn't need to be yelling at her.

She said "Oh, because you're SOOO patient!!!" walked off and then yelled from another room "YOU need to WAIT until we're in private before you tell me you don't like something I'm doing!!!!"

After that, I had my phone recording and caught a few choice quips in the car on the way to the game. Getting after me because I hadn't looked at a meme she had sent me while I was at CrossFit this morning. Stupid.

I fully expect another tongue lashing tonight because I stopped her from yelling at DD1 and the VAR will be recording every second of it.


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## father_of_2

Surprisingly nothing really happened last night. Since over had the VAR on me and recording, there's been very little to report. Figures!

Only a matter of time before her next outburst though.


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## aquarius1

father_of_2 said:


> Surprisingly nothing really happened last night. Since over had the VAR on me and recording, there's been very little to report. Figures!
> 
> Only a matter of time before her next outburst though.


Sad that that's the truth. Don't let your guard down for one second. Be ready


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## Cynthia

Once you have chosen an attorney that is experienced in dealing with mental illness in divorce and custody issues, he should be able to help you develop a safe exit plan that will be best for you, the children, and your wife. I know this is very difficult, but her interests are important as well, especially to your children. How you deal with and treat her now will be part of their family history and will impact how they feel about you and how they develop their beliefs about love, commitment, and family.


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## father_of_2

Haven't journaled here this week. Need to vent a little bit.

None of the lawyers I have called have called me back. That's really freaking annoying - I'll call them all again tomorrow morning.

Ironically, I've been carrying around the VAR whenever I'm around my wife but things have been *relatively* peaceful at home this week. No blow ups. However, she makes little snide remarks that are grating. 

For instance, tonight, after listening to her complain about her co-workers again for an hour, she started getting after me for not taking time out of my workday to go buy a glue gun to make DD1's ugly Xmas sweater for school. "I hope Daddy went and bought a glue gun like I told him to!" Yelled from another room with both girls listening. I said I didn't have time to do that (I'm sitting in the Walmart parking lot right now about to go in and buy one!!)

Then I suggested I just buy a sweater, she shot that down because it doesn't teach DD1 anything, then starts saying "I know you guys can make an ugly sweater" and then looks at me and says "I know you ESPECIALLY can make a really ugly one" - what the hell? This is the second time she's said something about me being ugly (last time was saying I was ugly to her)

I did catch this on the VAR, but really - this one won't make a hill of beans.

Overall, though, this week I've felt really down. I have been extremely unproductive at work, I know I've been short with my employees and colleagues, and in general just not doing what I should be doing. I have been sitting on the couch with my laptop watching shows on HBO while working. This is not my usual behavior as I am (humbly) one of the top performers in my company and regularly interface with and influence the CEO, CTO, and others.

My counselor has been trying to get me in each day this week when she has cancellations but no times have worked out. If she calls tomorrow I'll see if my parents can pick up DD1 from school so I can go.


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## father_of_2

Forgot to mention - she was supposed to have a session with her IC today after work. This was to be her first appointment in a month. She skipped it saying she doesn't know what she would talk about and she "knows" and "uses" all of the "techniques" already. 

I picked up both girls thinking she'd be going to her appointment. Instead she came home before I even got back and went to sleep.

Ugh.....


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## st5555

Wow, I feel so sorry for you and your situation. I have also endured verbal abuse from my wife for many many years. It wasn't because she's crazy (well maybe a little), but simply a b****. 

Our children are now adults with their own families. Collectively we've been in counseling on/off for over twenty years. Baby steps were accomplished each time. It was a long road getting to where we are today, but the reality is I probably should have divorced her when we were 5-10 years into our marriage.

She would weaponize anything I told her, turn it around and use it against me. The result is I stopped telling her anything about my day or how things were going for my own protection. Now that things are better, I'm still reluctant to share things with her as my fear of being hurt is still very active. So that's one long term effect I still have to get over. 

She was constantly "right" in her opinion while I was always wrong. There wasn't even the slightest chance of meetinging the middle.

Her abuse drove me to the point of planning my suicide as I was convinced I was a worthless piece of crap that had no real value on this earth. 

My wife does take medication on a daily basis to stabilize her mood. If she stopped taking her meds, I would definitely consider divorcing her again as that is certainly not the type of person I wish to live with any longer.

I am still seeing a therapist on a weekly basis working through the damage and scars I received in our marriage.

It sounds like you have a good handle on your self worth. I wish you all the luck and know that there are people here who understand where you are coming from and will help in anyway we can. Hopefully things will move forward so you and your children no longer have to be subjected to this.


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## father_of_2

@st5555, thank you for your perspective. It really is helpful to know that I'm not the only one who had dealt with this.

My wife seems to be continuing to try to sweep her psychotic break and the abusive and aggressive behavior that has followed under the rug. To the point where she's now wanting to plan that trip for my 40th birthday again. And asking me to buy her a $1000 necklace for Xmas.

It's like things have been relatively stable this week so all is good?

How could I ever forget being accused of molesting our daughters? Or of being addicted to porn? Or the countless times I've been accused of infidelity? Or being called a fat mother****** who disgusts her? Or her saying in 2017 "what if I told you you were the fattest guy I ever ******?!" Or, indeed, finding in her journal that she'd been thinking of leaving to be with an old cop boyfriend who she was hadn't even talked to but was having delusions was investigating my brother's wife?

We haven't kissed (aside from a few pecks, reluctantly on my part) in weeks, no sex in weeks, not since she told me during sex that I don't listen to her and it pisses her off. We don't say "I love you" anymore, and I have no desire to.

A few days ago a good friend from college invited us to a new year's Eve party. It's about a 3 hr drive to get to where they live so we have booked a hotel room. I am absolutely dreading it. How can I carry a VAR if I'm in such close quarters with her for 3 days? I don't even want to be near her in the first place!

I just got a text from one of the lawyers I contacted and I'm awaiting a call back.


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## attheend02

father_of_2 said:


> A few days ago a good friend from college invited us to a new year's Eve party. It's about a 3 hr drive to get to where they live so we have booked a hotel room. I am absolutely dreading it. How can I carry a VAR if I'm in such close quarters with her for 3 days? I don't even want to be near her in the first place!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It sounds like you are carrying a VAR to justify why you don't want to be with her. I don't think you need it for that. You need it to protect yourself from someone that sounds crazy.

Why would you book a night away with someone that you need to carry a VAR for your protection?


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## father_of_2

Spoke with the first lawyer this afternoon. His advice was much the same as all of yours. Namely that I should file, that I should request conservatorship of the children and request that she be removed from the home.

The next question bring whether we request that she only have supervised visitation. That one is hard for me to accept as I know how hurt my wife and kids would be, how her family will react, and I don't want to hurt my kids' relationship with their grandparents. But I will do so if absolutely necessary.

As far as carrying the VAR, I get that it's to protect myself from false accusations but I always want to capture her instability in case I need to prove it one day.


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## Cynthia

Why would you go away with her?
Why would you share a hotel room with her?
From what you write, it appears that your wife has no idea whatsoever that you are planning to leave her. Are you planning to leave her?


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## BluesPower

father_of_2 said:


> Spoke with the first lawyer this afternoon. His advice was much the same as all of yours. Namely that I should file, that I should request conservatorship of the children and request that she be removed from the home.
> 
> The next question bring whether we request that she only have supervised visitation. That one is hard for me to accept as I know how hurt my wife and kids would be, how her family will react, and I don't want to hurt my kids' relationship with their grandparents. But I will do so if absolutely necessary.
> 
> As far as carrying the VAR, I get that it's to protect myself from false accusations but I always want to capture her instability in case I need to prove it one day.


Look man, I get that this is hard. I get the you are a "nice guy" I get it. 

But when are you going to man up about this crap an protect your children? When??? 

How long do you think it would be before this spills over to the kids, FYI, I really has already. 

Do you want her to completely loose touch with reality and harm your children? 

Look, time to get hard about this. Time to get the **** out. Time to care more about your kids than you care about being a scared doormat...

Get it??????


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## father_of_2

Cynthia said:


> Why would you go away with her?
> Why would you share a hotel room with her?
> From what you write, it appears that your wife has no idea whatsoever that you are planning to leave her. Are you planning to leave her?





BluesPower said:


> I get the you are a "nice guy" I get it.


Up to this point in our marriage, I have been the quintessential "nice guy" while she gets away with behavior someone tougher than me would never accept. I think fear is the basis for this. Fear of being alone and never finding love again, of it all backfiring on me and losing the kids, of losing what has become my second family. Fear of the backlash in the form of verbal abuse and emotional blackmail that comes whenever I have put her in her place before. It's why I agreed to going away with her and why I have always had a hard time saying "no" - I have this default behavior of trying to please people and be a peacemaker so that _I_ don't feel unloved.

This is why I haven't had the guts to have an honest discussion with her about divorce. I know how she will react - it will be a dumpster fire of epic proportions if I bring up her mental health issues or that I think she needs to leave the house and ESPECIALLY if I say that she can't see the kids. I would have the VAR going to protect myself, but I worry that bring the subject up before I have discussed an exit plan with a lawyer will be a disaster with someone as unstable as her.



BluesPower said:


> But when are you going to man up about this crap an protect your children? When???


The fact that's it's Xmas time also has me hesitating - I don't want to ruin Christmas for my daughters, especially the 8 year old who does know what divorce means as some of her friends' parents are divorced.

But clearly this is unsustainable. I started reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" in 2017 - I will pick it back up again this weekend and read it.

When is the right time to man up? How do I even start that conversation with her? Or do I need to formulate an exit plan with a lawyer first before I say anything at all to her?


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## BluesPower

father_of_2 said:


> Up to this point in our marriage, I have been the quintessential "nice guy" while she gets away with behavior someone tougher than me would never accept. I think fear is the basis for this. Fear of being alone and never finding love again, of it all backfiring on me and losing the kids, of losing what has become my second family. Fear of the backlash in the form of verbal abuse and emotional blackmail that comes whenever I have put her in her place before. It's why I agreed to going away with her and why I have always had a hard time saying "no" - I have this default behavior of trying to please people and be a peacemaker so that _I_ don't feel unloved.
> 
> This is why I haven't had the guts to have an honest discussion with her about divorce. I know how she will react - it will be a dumpster fire of epic proportions if I bring up her mental health issues or that I think she needs to leave the house and ESPECIALLY if I say that she can't see the kids. I would have the VAR going to protect myself, but I worry that bring the subject up before I have discussed an exit plan with a lawyer will be a disaster with someone as unstable as her.
> 
> The fact that's it's Xmas time also has me hesitating - I don't want to ruin Christmas for my daughters, especially the 8 year old who does know what divorce means as some of her friends' parents are divorced.
> 
> But clearly this is unsustainable. I started reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" in 2017 - I will pick it back up again this weekend and read it.
> 
> When is the right time to man up? How do I even start that conversation with her? Or do I need to formulate an exit plan with a lawyer first before I say anything at all to her?


You act like you need her permission to divorce her. You don't. 

I get that you are an abuse person, male of female it does not matter. 

However, you get a lawyer, start documenting everything, carry the var around, and get ready to leave. 

Seriously, NOW is the time to man up... 

Please say that you understand that...


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## Andy1001

@Father-of-2 you say that the reason that you accept her behavior is fear.
I’d like to ask you a hypothetical question. 
If tonight while laying in bed you had a heart attack or a stroke do you think that your wife would help you. Would she call 911, would she begin CPR or would she see this as the answer to her prayers. 
If something happens to you health wise she will have sole care of your children and believe me Christmas being ruined will be the least of their problems. 
If you suck this up and actually go on vacation with her and buy her the expensive necklace then buy something else as well.
Life insurance.


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> When is the right time to man up? How do I even start that conversation with her? Or do I need to formulate an exit plan with a lawyer first before I say anything at all to her?


#1 - It's always the right time to man up. 

#2 - When she is behaving rudely, you tell her that you are not going to tolerate being treated that way, then you walk away. You do not have discussion with her about it or let her spin it until you are dizzy. You simply tell her you don't like it then physically remove yourself from her. Don't make it a big drama. Make it very simply and clear, while being perfectly calm and collected.

#3 You need to formulate an exit plan immediately and decide the safest way to let her know that you are getting divorced. I don't think you should be the one to tell her. If you are, have 911 on speed dial; I'm not joking. You should at least have another adult with you who is witness. The attorney will know how to have her removed from the home. Of course, her parents will need to know at some point and should be a line in your plan.

As far as this trip you are taking with her, I think you should book two rooms, but on different floors. You stay in the higher floor room. If you don't want to tip your hand, you stay with her and don't tell her about the extra room. If she gets unruly, leave the room and go to your other room without telling her where you are going. Just let her know that you aren't sticking around to be abused and that you have made other arrangements and will be fine. That way you have told her that you have a plan and will not be staying on a couch or under a bridge, but are safe and fine.

If some new drama comes up, you tell her that you are not tolerating being treated this way and think you should take separate vehicles, because you want your peace and are not going to engage with her in drama, then tell her that you have booked separate rooms. If she goes off on you, let her know she's being recorded and that you aren't going to tolerate her abuse. If she goes crazy, call 911 and have her committed again.

If new drama comes up and you are taking separate vehicles, I recommend you stay at a different hotel than her entirely. The reason I recommend the same hotel in the first place is because it could be a big problem if you leave her without transportation.

Yes, I know it's Christmas, but crazy doesn't take a holiday and it's not your fault if you have to draw a line in the sand this time of year or any time.

P.S. No More Mr. Nice Guy and a terrific diagnostic tool, but his solutions are not great, some of them are downright stupid.


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## father_of_2

BluesPower said:


> You act like you need her permission to divorce her. You don't.
> 
> 
> 
> I get that you are an abuse person, male of female it does not matter.
> 
> 
> 
> However, you get a lawyer, start documenting everything, carry the var around, and get ready to leave.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, NOW is the time to man up...
> 
> 
> 
> Please say that you understand that...




Yes, I do.

What's ironic is, I just reread what I wrote earlier and noticed that I said I people please so I don't feel unloved. Well, I don't feel loved now!

I realize I have made my own mistakes - I didn't follow through on my feelings that I shouldn't let her come home after her hospitalization. I didn't go with her to the doctor after she was discharged. There have been no consequences for her behavior because of my own "nice guy" behavior.

I am going to cancel the new years trip. My plan is to tell her I don't feel comfortable traveling with her due to the way she has treated me over the past 2 months. Not exactly sure how I'm going to word it yet. I have an appointment with my IC on Tuesday - I will work on it then. I also need to work on my confidence and assertiveness.

I'll text the attorney and make an appointment with him.


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## st5555

At this point I'd run everything past your lawyer first. He knows how to best protect your interests. Like you, I am also a nice guy and we are proof that nice guys finish last.

For me, while in a deep depression about a year ago, I asked my wife how to fix things and she said, "Be more assertive." I realized she was right and letting my voice be heard and recognized took our marriage into a much better direction. She later said in a moment of anger that she hated me being more assertive, but that's another story! I can see how this wouldn't help in your case as you are dealing with some serious mental issues on her part. Before my wife was under medication, not getting way made her upset, which lead to anger which grew into some serious rage. Thanks goodness for happy pills!

Keep your VAR going, listen to your lawyer and the most important thing you can do is protect your children from her abuse. I'll bet your eight year old dreads coming home from school as she knows she's going to be treated poorly by your wife.

Good luck, it looks like you are headed in the right direction and doing the best you can under the circumstances.


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## Adelais

I think that cancelling the trip is a good idea. Spend the time with your children: family time.


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## Tilted 1

father_of_2 said:


> Yes, I do.
> 
> What's ironic is, I just reread what I wrote earlier and noticed that I said I people please so I don't feel unloved. Well, I don't feel loved now!
> 
> I realize I have made my own mistakes - I didn't follow through on my feelings that I shouldn't let her come home after her hospitalization. I didn't go with her to the doctor after she was discharged. There have been no consequences for her behavior because of my own "nice guy" behavior.
> 
> I am going to cancel the new years trip. My plan is to tell her I don't feel comfortable traveling with her due to the way she has treated me over the past 2 months. Not exactly sure how I'm going to word it yet. I have an appointment with my IC on Tuesday - I will work on it then. I also need to work on my confidence and assertiveness.
> 
> I'll text the attorney and make an appointment with him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry being assertive, does mean you don't have to give her an reason or excuse. " I changed my mind"


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## She'sStillGotIt

father_of_2 said:


> When is the right time to man up?


30 years ago.


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## father_of_2

She'sStillGotIt said:


> 30 years ago.




Fair point, though I think taken a bit out of context.

Today has already started out contentiously. 

Last night I took DD1 to a birthday party and left DD2 with my wife. My wife was having a hard time waking up from her 2+ hr nap after work so I was a little worried about the 2 year old, who was playing when I left.

So, when we got to the party I texted her asking how it was going. No response for 15 min, so I called - no answer. Called again - no answer. Left a voicemail saying I was checking that she woke up because I was a little worried about DD2.

I got a text from her about 5 min later... "Fine." I figured she'd gotten my voicemail and was responding to that.

I got home from the party and DD2 was still up playing (after 9PM by this point) and my wife was still in bed watching TV. I ended up having to put both girls to bed because my wife couldn't be bothered.

Little did I know that she hadn't heard my voicemail until this morning. I made breakfast for the girls and us, went to tell her it was ready and she was smirking and snickering "I just heard your voicemail." I said "Ok" she laughed and said "so ridiculous"

I just left the room at that point. Then I was taking the baby to the bathroom and she barges in and says "and next time don't tell [DD's friend's grandmother] that I'm sick when I'm not sick!" I said had no idea what she was talking about so she repeated it and slammed the bathroom door.

Then she sends me a load of harassing texts.

Fast forward to after the game, we're in the car and she starts in on me about the voicemail. "so you thought I was sleeping instead of watching my kid?" I said "yep" - and she starts laying into me saying I was being passive aggressive, she wants the real father_of_2 to come out, and some other insults. Keep in mind the girls are hearing all of this.

So I said "that's enough". She said "that's enough from YOU" so I repeated myself and said she's being rude and needs to stop right now. She said "well I'm soooo sorry" and snickered and then stopped.

I did capture all of this on my VAR, so that's good.

Next time I shouldn't even leave my daughter with her if I feel uncomfortable.

This is just reason #500 to end the marriage.


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## RebuildingMe

This sounds like hell on earth. I’m sorry you are going through this and I hope you find the courage to leave your marriage.


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> Next time I shouldn't even leave my daughter with her if I feel uncomfortable.


This is an important point. Since you believe your wife is mentally unstable and you are planning to fight for full custody, leaving your child alone with her isn't going to help your case. You'll have to learn to do this as a full-time single dad. Now is the time to start learning how.


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## aquarius1

I know that I can be an alarmist but fate and experience has taught me to be that way.

Don’t leave your kids alone with her. She is unstable. 

I know that makes it harder on you. But just please don’t. Especially after you announce your intention to leave.

Please trust me on this one.


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## father_of_2

What a **** show my marriage has become! I don't know what would be worse - being married to my insufferable wife or poking hot needles into my eyes...

After the ridiculous berating I took on Saturday for daring to call her out for sleeping when she was supposed to be watching the baby, we actually had a pretty tranquil Sunday. DD1 had another basketball game, we went to church afterwards, and then picked up dinner and went home. After I put the girls to bed while she napped (big surprise) she suddenly wanted to be intimate. I agreed because I'm a man and never say no to sex. But don't worry folks - I had a successful vasectomy in April!

Then the major blowup at 5:30 in the flippin' morning today.

It really started yesterday when I found her notes from her most recent therapist visit (way back in October since she skipped the appointment last week!) that she left on my desk, in which she wrote alternatives for "He's an a*****e" and "He gets on my last nerve". Reading this made me pretty irritated, so I went and grabbed a pint of vanilla ice cream I'd bought Sunday for the girls and ate the whole damn thing, didn't go to CrossFit like I'd planned, and plopped myself on the couch to watch TV while working instead of sitting in my office.

Fast forward to the afternoon. I had asked her to (gasp) pick up the baby on the way home because I had work I needed to finish - by now back in my office. So she did and was extra cranky when she walked in the door. I was about to make dinner but stepped away for a few minutes. When I came back:

Her: "Did you eat all that ice cream?"
Me: "Yep"
Her: "Did you go to CrossFit?"
Me: "No"
Her: [storms out of kitchen] "I'm going to lie down. I don't feel well." [slams bedroom door]

I then went in the bedroom to get my wallet so I could run to the corner store and get an ingredient for dinner. She proceeds to try to start a fight.

Her: "It's all a joke to you. You don't even want to lose weight. You just want to be fat for the rest of your life"
Me: "Bye" [walked out the door]

When I got back from the store 10 minutes later she was asleep. I made dinner for all of us (including my ungrateful wife) and the girls and I had a nice time eating dinner. She slept for 2+ hours and then left to go to the grocery store to buy some stuff for her students. Whatever...

I then (as usual) bathed both girls, got them ready for bed, read to them, tucked them in to go to sleep. She came back during this time and went BACK to sleep.

Wake up at 4:15 this morning to the sounds of her scream sneezing in the bathroom with the door wide open, lights blazing, toilet flushing 10 times. I pretended to stay asleep but couldn't. So I got on my phone after she left the room. She came back in about 5:15 and saw me on my phone so started talking. Mundane stuff at first, but then she started in on me, asking if I was going to get up and go to CrossFit right that second. I said no. Then she started on the "it's a joke to you" stuff again, and then went into an epic rant about all the horrible things I've done - 

- putting her in the hospital, 
- talking to her parents and mine about her mental health, 
- not losing weight - I'm a fat disgusting piece of ****
- again falsely claiming I said it wasn't a long term marriage (her go-to), 
- that I was the cause of her long depression
- how dare I say that she wouldn't get out of bed for 6 months
- how dare I tell her that I had closure over the miscarriages - I'll never know what it's like to deliver dead babies
- how dare I tell her it's been four years since her last miscarriage and it's time to move on
- I'm an a******
- I'm a liar

So, I had enough, and said "God, you are such a FB! I'm so done with this ****!" I sprinkled in a few "FU" and "F off" and "You had a psychotic break!!!" a few times. I said "Jesus ******* Christ" a few times, which REALLY made her mad. She said "You don't say that!!!" which made me laugh. I also said "I want you out of this room. Preferably out of this house and ideally out of my life"

I shouldn't have even responded. I should have walked away but I wanted all of this caught on my VAR, which it was.

It continued for another 10 min or so, but I shut my mouth and let her rant until the baby woke up. So I went and got her up and my wife followed me ranting! By this time I'd turned on voice memo on my phone too.

She then asked if she should look into getting an apartment. I said she should go stay with her parents. Which set her off again - saying that I was telling her to abandon her children, that it's her house and she pays for half of it and she's not leaving! I stopped talking at this point and again let her rant. After she left for work, I found she had put a suitcase on my office chair along with my sunglasses - ?????

I was waiting to talk to my IC today about how to approach cancelling the New Year's trip, but she did it for me during her ranting. So problem solved I guess, though I would have liked to have the upper hand there.

So, I have now had conversations with two lawyers. The second one gave me much more confidence than the first, and I am planning to move forward with filing a petition for divorce with temporary orders that the girls stay in the house and (hopefully) that she has to leave. But will have to wait until after the holidays because all the judges are out of office and it's going to have to be that she's served papers instead of me giving them to her.

I'll call a third lawyer in a few min. just to cover my bases but so far the 2nd one is in the lead.

Sucks that this is my reality...


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## father_of_2

Had a listen to the recording today. Wow, it sounds even worse than it did when it actually happened. She was absolutely unhinged.

She texted while I was at basketball practice with the girls last night that she would "consider my offer" to go stay with her parents and that she'd spoken to her lawyer. I just said "As did I" and then she sent me one of her trademark barrages of texts ridiculing me and then said "JK I don't tattle" - I don't know if that means she didn't really contact a lawyer or what.

Then she came home and went right back to sleep in our marital bed. She "apologized" for her actions but to me it rang hollow and today is sending me pics of her lunch and acting like nothing happened.

It's maddening and can't go on like this. My daughters don't deserve to be in a household this broken.

I've had a good conversation with the second attorney now and he's given me a lot of confidence. I'll reach out to him today again to make an appointment to get things started.


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## terrycjr

Sounds very similar to my situation. My wife accuses or blames me for all kinds of things to try and shift the light. The last time she was arrested, she tried telling the police i was going to kill my children so that they would not let me take them. Fortanetly they took her, for 11 days to a hospital and started Lithium. It looked like the answer for 5-6 weeks until a new doctor put her back on her abused drug of choice, now where back where we were 2 months ago.

A huge part of my issue, and maybe yours as well is that we are completely kept out of the treatment. She wont let me talk to her doctors or go to appointments. It leaves me feeling like an untrusted outsider, and also only give her doctors one side of the picture, and usually a picture painted to get her the drugs she wants, not the wants that could help her.

If your wife was taking medicine that she adjusted to, like Lithium, and then abruptly quit, she could be worse off. I feel its so important to be together in treatment, unfortunately privacy laws prevent that, and i mine or both our cases could end badly

Sorry, read a few more of your comments. It hits so close to home lol, i dont mean to laugh but i feel you. Even the sneezing, my wife will sneeze 7-8 times in a row, with maximum effort, like wtf. Then gags herself brushing her teeth so shes in the bathroom with door open, lights all on making choking noises. She cant sleep without the TV on, so even thats a battle, especially becasue she's also deaf, so the volumes at 50% or more at 1am. Then when she does fall asleep, its sideways acroos the bed, snoring, becuase she needs to line up with some part of the f'in solar system to sleep properly...


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## 3Xnocharm

father_of_2 said:


> It's maddening and can't go on like this. My daughters don't deserve to be in a household this broken.
> 
> I've had a good conversation with the second attorney now and he's given me a lot of confidence. I'll reach out to him today again to make an appointment to get things started.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am glad to read that you are seeing the light. Keep going.


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## father_of_2

terrycjr said:


> Sorry, read a few more of your comments. It hits so close to home lol, i dont mean to laugh but i feel you. Even the sneezing, my wife will sneeze 7-8 times in a row, with maximum effort, like wtf. Then gags herself brushing her teeth so shes in the bathroom with door open, lights all on making choking noises. She cant sleep without the TV on, so even thats a battle, especially becasue she's also deaf, so the volumes at 50% or more at 1am. Then when she does fall asleep, its sideways acroos the bed, snoring, becuase she needs to line up with some part of the f'in solar system to sleep properly...



I literally lol'd when I read the part about gagging when she brushes her teeth. My wife does that too! And she scream sneezes at least 10 times in a row. It's so annoying.


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## father_of_2

Tbf, I'm sure there are things I do that annoy her just as much, but not at 4:30am


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## terrycjr

father_of_2 said:


> I literally lol'd when I read the part about gagging when she brushes her teeth. My wife does that too! And she scream sneezes at least 10 times in a row. It's so annoying.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


lol wow, is she a brunette, about 5'-7", 120 pounds and addicted to candy crush


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## Cynthia

When she goes off on you and jump right in with verbal abuse, it makes matters worse. Any recording that includes your active participation in the abuse is not going to do you any good. If you can't find your happy place, please find a therapist who can help you get there.


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## SunCMars

father_of_2 said:


> Surprisingly nothing really happened last night. Since over had the VAR on me and recording, there's been very little to report. Figures!
> 
> Only a matter of time before her next outburst though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It sounds like she has 'that sense' about her.

She hears not the solid state recorder, the VAR, but she sees clearly the 'stinkle' in your eyes.

Ah, or maybe she has a friend on the other side of the wire, telling her when to unload and when to remain silent.
There are at least two of her, in that's her, noggin' nest.


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## SunCMars

Cynthia said:


> When she goes off on you and jump right in with verbal abuse, it makes matters worse. Any recording that includes your active participation in the abuse is not going to do you any good. If you can't find your happy place, please find a therapist who can help you get there.


You truly are that kind lady. But, he must get though each day, oh my, somehow.

The recordings (should be) only be for his protection, not for his (or our) amusement.
He, we get it.

I know you feel sorry for this wife of his. And we should too, three, four.

We need not pile on this sick lady, by offering up yet another remark, that same-same advice or just plain snark.

Again, you come from a good place, in a bad world.

I know this.



King Brian-


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## SunCMars

father_of_2 said:


> I literally lol'd when I read the part about gagging when she brushes her teeth. My wife does that too! And she scream sneezes at least 10 times in a row. It's so annoying.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now....

This is the place where sympathy meets antipathy for those in your situation.

_Think_ of her quirks humorously, if you must, but speak not any mockery when it serves no kind purpose.


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## father_of_2

Cynthia said:


> When she goes off on you and jump right in with verbal abuse, it makes matters worse. Any recording that includes your active participation in the abuse is not going to do you any good. If you can't find your happy place, please find a therapist who can help you get there.


Truly much easier said than done. When she is literally _screaming_ at me (at 5:30AM) "You were telling me to get out of bed when I was SICK [with depression] - I WAS SICK!! WHY DON'T YOU GET YOUR FAT A** OUT OF BED?!!" are you telling me that I shouldn't defend myself? That I should be passive and say "OK honey I'll get up"? That makes no sense.

When she is calling me an a-hole and a liar and a fat mother..... that I should just take it? I guess I could just walk out of the room, but every time I've done that when she's in this unhinged state - she follows me and continues!

Saying "I'm done with this ****" after what she said above is one thing. Saying "FU" or "F off" after more of her abuse is pushing it but I don't think it rises to the level of participating in abuse. Telling her several times "You had a psychotic break!" is definitely not abuse. I agree, saying "You're such a FB" afterwards is going beyond what I should have said. 

I'm in a no win situation here. If I respond in kind, I'm participating in the abuse. If I don't respond, I'm then a doormat and subject to abuse and ridicule.


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> Truly much easier said than done. When she is literally _screaming_ at me (at 5:30AM) "You were telling me to get out of bed when I was SICK [with depression] - I WAS SICK!! WHY DON'T YOU GET YOUR FAT A** OUT OF BED?!!" are you telling me that I shouldn't defend myself? That I should be passive and say "OK honey I'll get up"? That makes no sense.


I have been verbally abused on many occasions from various people who were important to me. I have learned that getting into it with someone does not work and it only makes me into the same kind of person that they are. Getting sucked into the drama doesn't work. I no longer participate in relationships with people who verbally abuse or otherwise mistreat me. 

Neither does your supposition that the only other option is to comply. That's not it either.

Waking you up to scream at you is a form of physical abuse. You need to get away from someone who is treating you like this. Yelling back makes matters worse. Ask your attorney what you can do about her waking you up and following you around and yelling at you. When she comes at you, you need to get away from her. If she isn't allowing you to get away from her, I would think that you could tell her that you could call 911 and have her removed. That's where your attorney's advice would come in handy. Is it against the law for her to harass you and make it block you physically from getting away from her abuse?

Can you pile the kids up in one room for the time being so you can have a room where you can lock the door and sleep away from her? Desperate times call for desperate measures. The kids already know there is a problem.

I know some people are thinking why should he be the one to move out of the bedroom? Because he is the one who wants to move out of the bedroom and he can't force her out. He needs his own space.

When someone is yelling, yelling back escalates the situation. Do not respond to her. You are giving her something to respond, so it continues the drama. You do not need an answer her foolishness. Doing so just makes her think she has a point that can be argued. Arguing with a fool is an exercise in futility. Have self-control and ignore her. Yes, I am telling you not to defend yourself. What good has it done so far? None. Yelling back adds fuel to her fire and makes her feel more justified. She's not interested in fairness and she's not listening to your defense. She will only use everything you say again you.


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## 3Xnocharm

@father_of_2, if you stopped responding to her during these tirades, do you fear she would physically attack you?


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## father_of_2

3Xnocharm said:


> @father_of_2, if you stopped responding to her during these tirades, do you fear she would physically attack you?


It's hard to say. Often when she gets like this and I don't respond, she will either get 2 inches from my face and scream something like "I AM YOUR WIFE!!" while berating me for "not defending her" or do something like she did Tuesday morning where she physically blocked me from getting out of the closet while I was getting dressed so she could harass me even further.


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> It's hard to say. Often when she gets like this and I don't respond, she will either get 2 inches from my face and scream something like "I AM YOUR WIFE!!" while berating me for "not defending her" or do something like she did Tuesday morning where she physically blocked me from getting out of the closet while I was getting dressed so she could harass me even further.


Physically blocking you may be considered imprisonment. Again, check with your attorney.

I understand that it is hard not to get sucked into the drama, but you can learn to go into yourself when she does this. There are methods to learning how to step out of the situation in your mind and find a place where you can have peace while she is raging. Yes, I've learned how to do this, so I know it's possible. It's better that she be the only one yelling. If you yell back, it will likely prolong her attack. However, even if you learn to retreat mentally and emotionally while she is raging. it is still a toxic environment and takes a huge amount of energy to live in. This is a serious problem. Do not wait to file for divorce. You need freedom from the abuse.

This is a high energy conflict that is creating problems not only for you, but for your children as well. The environment is toxic. I know you've asked her to leave, but maybe that could be a mantra that you can adopt when she starts in, "Please go to your parents now." over and over again.


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## SunCMars

Is it no wonder why those trapped in insanity's dungeon, find no peaceful solution, finding only scorn and rancor.

It is bad for those that are unstable and for those that are subject to this, that unbalanced nature.

Society is said to be, 'too free' to allow the resurgence of insane asylums, and too negligent and too cheap to admit that forever need.

It seems that lawyers, both free us and imprison us for any imaginable, but not for what is best for society, at large.

They work for the client, whoever good or bad that pays them. Clients are rarely saints or impoverished philosophers.

How could they be? 
These are the rarest of birds.


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## delupt

Fo2 - clearly, verbally defending yourself or fighting back verbally will not work. You cannot engage the crazy, you cannot compete.

Yes, get out of the room, get out of the house, hang up the phone ... only something along the lines of "you cannot speak to me like that, we can discuss it later when you are calm" ... turn a back and leave. Mine once got so irate over some nonsense that she began frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog ... I half-smiled and handed her a tissue, and went for a coffee.

On her physically blocking you as they try to incite violence from you: my lawyer said I could use proportional force to extricate/defend myself - an open hand to move her aside with a forceful push when blocked was about the max he could defend. But I'm in W EU, I assume the anglosphere is even more gynocentric so always consult your lawyer. The VAR is for your protection if she becomes violent and to mitigate any false accusations of DV, nothing more.

But beware, as I dealt with her better, my borderline ex started going for our eldest son (young teen at the time) ... he's 20+ now, in therapy, and they never see each other anymore and probably never will ... it breaks my heart but these people will never stop in their quest to be the victim, they always have another gear.


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## father_of_2

We'll, after a couple of relatively tranquil days, that side is coming out again.

First, she didn't sleep last night, which amplifies her agitation.

But everything was ok for most of the day (except her complaining that I never text her during the day anymore like I used to - I just said I'm very busy with work)

Then - and you all please tell me if I'm in the wrong here - I asked a buddy via text if he wanted to go see the new Star Wars with me next week. The last two times a SW movie came out my wife first ridiculed the movies, then teased me for wanting to see them, and then I ended up going to see them alone.

Offhand, I told her I had asked my friend, thinking she would be happy I didn't ask her. Boy was I wrong. First she asks why I didn't ask her first. I told her that I didn't think she'd be interested. She stormed off. Then she comes back out with that mad look on her face, walks right past me, them comes back and says that I really hurt her feelings. I told her she didn't want to go to the last two. She cut me off saying "I don't want to argue with you!" and slammed the bedroom door.

I honestly don't know if I am the jerk here. Should I have asked her first so she had the opportunity to say no and then ask my friend?

Truth be told, I don't want to go on any dates with her right now. Why would I want to go on a date with someone who verbally abuses me several times a week?


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## bobert

I don't know if you were wrong about the movie but I got in trouble for the same thing. 

I asked a close friend of mine if he wanted to go see the Star Wars movie and didn't ask my wife first. I told her after the fact that I'd be going to see it in a week, with a friend of mine. Like you, I also thought she'd be happy about it. 

She doesn't like or care about Star Wars. She doesn't like "Star" anything. Her criteria for picking a movie or show on Netflix, etc. is "nothing with spaceships, outer space, aliens, SciFi, etc". If I do pick Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. because she was already asleep anyway, she gets mad and rolls over... and is asleep again 5 seconds later. She would never tease anyone about liking that stuff but she personally doesn't, so I thought I was saving her the suffering and asked a friend of mine. I'd rather see the movie with someone who will enjoy it anyway. (For the record, I would NEVER invite my wife to a movie if she were ridiculing me for liking or seeing the movie.)

On top of all that mentally she's in no place to go to a movie. She'd most likely have panic attacks or another issue and have to leave. She's really sick right now and probably off her meds. We're fighting right now and she pretty much wants nothing to do with me, so why would she want to see a movie that she doesn't like, with someone she doesn't like very much right now? 

Apparently, I was wrong. She was not happy when I told her. She was mad and upset that I didn't ask her first. I think her response was "thanks for inviting me". In the end I changed the plans and invited her instead of my friend. Then she changed her mind and said to ask him instead...

All that to say, I don't know if it was wrong or not but at least you're not alone in the craziness?


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## FrazzledSadHusband

bobert said:


> I don't know if you were wrong about the movie but I got in trouble for the same thing.
> 
> I asked a close friend of mine if he wanted to go see the Star Wars movie and didn't ask my wife first. I told her after the fact that I'd be going to see it in a week, with a friend of mine. Like you, I also thought she'd be happy about it.
> 
> She doesn't like or care about Star Wars. She doesn't like "Star" anything. Her criteria for picking a movie or show on Netflix, etc. is "nothing with spaceships, outer space, aliens, SciFi, etc". If I do pick Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. because she was already asleep anyway, she gets mad and rolls over... and is asleep again 5 seconds later. She would never tease anyone about liking that stuff but she personally doesn't, so I thought I was saving her the suffering and asked a friend of mine. I'd rather see the movie with someone who will enjoy it anyway.
> 
> On top of all that mentally she's in no place to go to a movie. She'd most likely have panic attacks or another issue and have to leave. She's really sick right now and probably off her meds. We're fighting right now and she pretty much wants nothing to do with me, so why would she want to see a movie that she doesn't like, with someone she doesn't like very much right now?
> 
> Apparently, I was wrong. She was not happy when I told her. She was mad and upset that I didn't ask her first. I think her response was "thanks for inviting me". In the end I changed the plans and invited her instead of my friend. Then she changed her mind and said to ask him instead...
> 
> All that to say, I don't know if it was wrong or not but at least you're not alone in the craziness?


Having been there, let me give you an example and advice.

You could buy a pull tab at a bar & win $1000., come home, hand your wife $980 and say you were gonna keep $20 for yourself. Your wife will then go on a screaming tirade that your a selfish SOB and she NEEDS that $20 bill.

STOP THINKING LOGICALLY about trying to avoid trigger points. No matter what you do, IT WON'T FREAKING MATTER!!!

It's a control thing. They want to be in control over every detail in their life. May have something to do with their past, maybe not. You can only control how you respond.

In my case, when I started pushing back, my wife left. But my life is much more peaceful now. I still gotta get thru the divorce, but I am not stressing anymore about what is gonna set off the wife. Luckily, my youngest is a senior and graduates HS in 5 months, and he lives with me.


----------



## MJJEAN

father_of_2 said:


> Then - and you all please tell me if I'm in the wrong here - I asked a buddy via text if he wanted to go see the new Star Wars with me next week. The last two times a SW movie came out my wife first ridiculed the movies, then teased me for wanting to see them, and then I ended up going to see them alone.
> 
> Offhand, I told her I had asked my friend, thinking she would be happy I didn't ask her.


Are you or are you not filing for divorce? 

If you are, STOP ENGAGING! What you do is not your STBXW's business. Learn to grey rock. Look it up if you need to. Grey rock works if you stick with it.

If you are not filing, there is nothing anyone can do for you because you are choosing to stay and this is what you get when you decide to stay with someone mentally unhinged.


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## 3Xnocharm

No you were not wrong by not asking her. Number one, she makes fun of something that you enjoy. So she can pound sand. Number two, you don’t even want to be around her right now, why would you ask her on a date? Let her have her little snit, and keep your plans. 

Ask her when she is going to her parents... whenever it is, it’s not soon enough. 


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## Cynthia

You did nothing wrong by inviting your friend.

As far as her getting angry, @3Xncharm is on the right track. Don't answer her questions, but ask, "When are you moving in with your parents?"

Stop pretending with her. It's not doing you any good. When a marriage is broken, when you are filing for divorce, date nights are over.


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## Openminded

You’ll never win with her no matter what you do.


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## father_of_2

No surprise here - after what had been a fairly good day, she asked me if I'd bought that $1k necklace. I said "No, I think it's awfully expensive."

Well... That set her off. "I should have known! You sound just like your FATHER! After all you've put me through this year, and you say it's too expensive?!"

I reminded her we have to make her first car payment and I didn't think it was practical. She says "So I'm not going to have any presents under the tree?!" I said I didn't say that. I was actually going to go to Kendra Scott and get her something less expensive. So she says she'll just go buy it herself tonight. 

She has ALREADY spent nearly $4,000 on Xmas this year, double our usual annual Xmas budget, including buying herself a $265 ring that she's been wearing everyday.

She has bought me a few $5 and $10 trinkets and t-shirts and told me I have to buy my own big gift after one of her unhinged tirades. So I spent $200 last night on some accessories for my car and was going to buy a new car stereo with money I get for Xmas.

Her actions are all so hypocritical.

If it weren't for the fact that we are supposed host Xmas Eve dinner for our families, I would have said "when are you moving to your parents" instead of just keeping my mouth shut and walking out of the room tonight.

I fully expect another night of unhinged abuse. This time I will say nothing except telling her she needs to stop, and if it continues, I WILL ask her when she's moving to her parents. And if necessary, I will cancel the Xmas Eve dinner.

I'm just biding my time until after the New year before filling. I don't want to ruin Xmas any more than it already has been.


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## *Deidre*

When the pain of not changing your situation, becomes worse than the idea of changing it (and the unknown of what that looks like), you'll figure out a way to leave.

I feel bad for anyone with mental illness, but no one should have to tolerate abuse as you have been.


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## sunsetmist

father_of_2 said:


> I fully expect another night of unhinged abuse. This time I will say nothing except telling her she needs to stop, and if it continues, I WILL ask her when she's moving to her parents. And if necessary, I will cancel the Xmas Eve dinner.
> 
> I'm just biding my time until after the New year before filling. I don't want to ruin Xmas any more than it already has been.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Consider these miserable days as down payment on what is to come. You will rest easy that you have done the right thing--never question this path. This is/was your decision. 

I, on the other hand, would have considered Christmas ruined already believing that you are living in purgatory. Kids and family are not stupid. Preparation and beginning actions take time and the sooner you make initial preparations, the better. There is no such thing as the perfect time.

I have lived where you now are. PTSD was the result and I didn't even realize it for a long time. This is a life-long dance with no choice but to breathe deeply and pray.


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## father_of_2

PTSD is something I worry about happening to me. I think I've become self aware enough throughout my 30s that I recognize I've already felt it - I've been reticent to speak my mind for years because she would shout me down or ridicule me until I gave in. I regularly pretend to be asleep when she comes in the bedroom so I won't be subject to her abuse. Even right now, I don't want to go into our bedroom because I know she will start in on me or give me "if looks could kill" stares the moment I walk in.

This is no way to live. It's weird, every time I write something like this, I can see so clearly the purgatory (thanks, @sunsetmist) I am living in.

I think I've shared this before but my biggest fears in divorce are 1) that it will all backfire on me and I'll lose custody of my children and 2) that I would go back to the self-imposed isolation of my early- to mid-20s, when I would talk to "girls" from online forums, become infatuated and think they were real and that they wanted to be with me. That one is really embarrassing to admit, but it was a big problem for me that I'm determined not to repeat.

I have been working on both of these issues with my IC, who I wish I'd gone to in my 20s! It really is interesting, considering my mother's history of schizophrenia (and the frenetic behavior that goes along with it), that my two major romantic relationships have been with a very moody girl my freshman year of college who wanted to wait for marriage to have sex so would freak out the next day after we just made out, and my wife.


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## Thor

father_of_2 said:


> I honestly don't know if I am the jerk here. Should I have asked her first so she had the opportunity to say no and then ask my friend?
> 
> Truth be told, I don't want to go on any dates with her right now. Why would I want to go on a date with someone who verbally abuses me several times a week?


You're the boiled frog, not the jerk. You've been so abused for so long that you don't see how totally screwed up your situation is. She will berate you for anything. You cannot win. You cannot make the "correct" or safe choice, because she is not logical. From a layman's standpoint she is crazy. Crazy people do crazy things and have crazy thoughts.

The only way to peace for you is to be nowhere near her. Extricating yourself has many traps, so you need to be working with a good lawyer who has seen these kinds of situations, and a psychologist who knows how to deal with such people. You need to have strategies to deal with her and strategies to protect you legally.


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## Thor

father_of_2 said:


> I think I've shared this before but my biggest fears in divorce are 1) that it will all backfire on me and I'll lose custody of my children and 2) that I would go back to the self-imposed isolation of my early- to mid-20s


Please plan carefully and take all possible precautions legally speaking. You need to start wearing a VAR all the time when you are around her. It is probably legal but double check your state laws. Even if it isn't legal, I would still have the VAR just for evidence if things should become violent. When she calls the police to make a false report of you being violent, you will be very happy to have that recording!

Your biggest fear should be some crazy thing she does unexpectedly. You can't even predict if she'll be angry you are going to Star Wars! She will do the unexpected.

Working with a lawyer will be key to documenting her behavior, which will secure your custody of the kids. Your lawyer will know how to gather the right kinds of data in the right ways to be admissible in court.

Be prepared for wild unexpected things from her.


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## father_of_2

I definitely already have a VAR with me at all times!

I even leave it on when she's not around as she has already falsely accused me of abusing the girls during her psychotic break. I want there to be no doubt the next time (though the police and fire fighters had no doubts last time).


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## father_of_2

Well the s*** has hit the fan today and I've told her I want a divorce.

A little back story: I have twin younger sisters. One married, one not. The married one has a 3 year old son but she's extremely rigid with his bedtime, putting him to bed at 6:30 every day. This drives everyone crazy because we hardly get to see him. It makes my wife especially crazy because she's not able to control my sister.

As I mentioned the other day, we are supposed to host Xmas Eve dinner tonight. My sister, predictably, has said the 6pm start is too late so her husband and son won't be coming. I talked her into coming a little early so we could at least see my nephew for a little bit. She agreed and I told my wife this.

I went to CrossFit with the other sister and my brother-in-law this morning. After the workout my sister asks what time they should come and is 4 ok? Anticipating the backlash from my wife I said come after 5.

Well, I didn't anticipate well enough apparently. While I was making myself some lunch my wife asked what time they were coming over and hopefully not 5. I said "I told you they would be coming early so yeah around 5 or so."

I shouldn't have been surprised but here came yet another of her unhinged tirades. This time with both girls listening while eating lunch. I had the VAR going the whole time.

She started screaming at the top of her lungs - how was she supposed to know this, I make decisions without her, I allow my sister to make the schedule, I don't communicate with her, this makes her SO ANGRY, it's SO INFURIATING, etc. It kept escalating and I told her she needed to stop as the kids are listening and she was scaring them.

She walked off and into our bedroom and slammed the door, yelling all the way.

I went in and confronted her - I said how dare she talk to me that way in front of the girls. She said "how dare you NOT LOSE WEIGHT?!"

I kept my cool this time.

She started saying "let's get to the root of the problem here" I said "yes, let's. The root of the problem is that you have not been taking your meds"

Another rude comment about my weight and complete denial that she hadn't been taking them.

I said "oh really?", went into the bathroom and got her pill bottle. She yelled "DON'T YOU TOUCH MY F****** PILLS!!!!" I grabbed he bottles, said "Lexapro, issued October 14th, still 7 remaining. Abilify, issued November 24th, still 15 remaining" 

She then grabbed the pill bottle from me and started punching me in the stomach with it, yelling at me to lose weight

I told her to stop hitting me and if she hits me one more time I will call 911 and have her arrested.

Etc etc etc

So back out in the bedroom I said I'm done - done with her, done with the marriage, and I want her out of the house. She refused of course, so I said I'll be moving to the guest room until I get a court order to have hey removed from the home.

And that I want a divorce ("GOOD!!!" she said) and would be contacting my lawyer the day after Christmas to file. And if she even thinks about hitting me again I will not hesitate to put her in jail. 

I used no profanity, I raised my voice to tell her to stop hitting me, and I didn't touch her. And all of it was caught on the VAR.


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## father_of_2

And I'm at Lowe's buying a door lock for the guest room right now. Who knows what she's is liable to do in the middle of the night.


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## Livvie

Good for you.. it's time to get out of this situation!!! I'm rooting for you.


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## lucy999

Cancel the dinner tonight. I am dead serious. You take your kids out for a good meal tonight. Don't care it's the 11th hour. Let your wife have her meltdown all by herself.


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## father_of_2

lucy999 said:


> Cancel the dinner tonight. I am dead serious. You take your kids out for a good meal tonight. Don't care it's the 11th hour. Let your wife have her meltdown all by herself.




If it weren't for the fact my kids are so looking forward to seeing their grandparents and cousins I would. As it is...


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## lucy999

By now you're probably in the throes of dinner. I hope you and the kids are having a good time with extended family.


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## Chuck71

Father of 2...... I have some experience in what you are in. Few facts for you.... she will not change without

intense help and admitting her situation. If the needed help is refused, she will get worse.

You are the protector of your girls. As so you should D your W and distance them from her.

The life you thought you had with her at one time is gone. You have been beaten down so much

you no longer know what normalcy is. You think the daily chaos IS normal. Maybe D her will wake her up.

Staying in this is worst choice you could possibly make


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## father_of_2

Chuck71 said:


> Father of 2...... I have some experience in what you are in. Few facts for you.... she will not change without
> 
> intense help and admitting her situation. If the needed help is refused, she will get worse.
> 
> You are the protector of your girls. As so you should D your W and distance them from her.
> 
> The life you thought you had with her at one time is gone. You have been beaten down so much
> 
> you no longer know what normalcy is. You think the daily chaos IS normal. Maybe D her will wake her up.
> 
> Staying in this is worst choice you could possibly make




Agreed. And she is in complete denial that anything is wrong with her. She was trying to turn it on ME yesterday by saying I was the crazy one.


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> Agreed. And she is in complete denial that anything is wrong with her. She was trying to turn it on ME yesterday by saying I was the crazy one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When they turn it around on you, that's called DARVO. It's a manipulation technique. 

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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> Agreed. And she is in complete denial that anything is wrong with her. She was trying to turn it on ME yesterday by saying I was the crazy one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In time she will do this to your girls. In your Ws eyes, she is doing nothing wrong....YOU are the

one with issues. Therefore you can NOT rationalize with her. My XW tried that on me, worked for about

three days. All that is left is for her to cheat on you and blame it on you. The sooner you get out, the better.


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## father_of_2

My wife is an enigma. It's simply astonishing how she can just turn on and off the psycho behavior.

Example - the blowup the morning of Xmas eve and then when people start arriving for the party she becomes bubbly, happy, giddy - completely the opposite of her earlier behavior. I know she's putting on a show, but hell if anyone else can tell. My sister did pick up on a few little things and told my dad but they were inconsequential.

She did try to confront me about putting a new doorknob on the guest room door while I was carving the turkey. I wanted to say "so I don't have to worry about getting murdered in the middle of the night" but I just said "we can talk about that later" and she stomped off back to the party where she put her happy hat back on.

Then she gave me a gift while we were all exchanging gifts - some shaving products and a blanket (I feel like returning it all...). The night before I had gone and bought her a $100 gift card to Kendra Scott as I'd been planning on, despite the fact she went and bought herself that $1000 necklace against my wishes. I guess, like another poster, I thought I was taking the high road. After her explosion that morning, though, I was on the fence with actually giving it to her. When she gave me a gift with our families all around, I felt guilty not giving her something, so I went and brought it out. She was all smiles and happy and kissing me, telling me she loves me and showing it off to her mom and sister.

I stayed up until 1:30AM putting together the Santa gifts and never got a chance to move my stuff from our bedroom to the guest room so I ended up crashing there both Xmas eve and Xmas. I also didn't want to have my daughter asking why I wasn't sleeping in there on Xmas morning...

Xmas day and the day after she was civil. "I love you" when she or I would step out of the house, etc. Kids were around so I reciprocated, but ugh...

Then today, her mood was less civil. She came out at one point showing me a fashion pill dispenser she bought "before _ got all mad" - I don't believe that for one second. It had nothing in it and still had tags! Not to mention that I didn't raise my voice during that altercation until I told her to stop hitting me.

Then we took the girls to see Frozen II and then dinner. At dinner, I was going to say something to my oldest but was interrupted and forgot what I was going to say. She says "Maybe it was a lie. Oh, that was a joke. Hahaha" - WTF?

So, I'm sitting here in the guest room debating whether I should just go grab my pillow and sleep over here... Yes, I will._


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## Tilted 1

father_of_2 said:


> My wife is an enigma. It's simply astonishing how she can just turn on and off the psycho behavior.
> 
> Example - the blowup the morning of Xmas eve and then when people start arriving for the party she becomes bubbly, happy, giddy - completely the opposite of her earlier behavior. I know she's putting on a show, but hell if anyone else can tell. My sister did pick up on a few little things and told my dad but they were inconsequential.
> 
> She did try to confront me about putting a new doorknob on the guest room door while I was carving the turkey. I wanted to say "so I don't have to worry about getting murdered in the middle of the night" but I just said "we can talk about that later" and she stomped off back to the party where she put her happy hat back on.
> 
> Then she gave me a gift while we were all exchanging gifts - some shaving products and a blanket (I feel like returning it all...). The night before I had gone and bought her a $100 gift card to Kendra Scott as I'd been planning on, despite the fact she went and bought herself that $1000 necklace against my wishes. I guess, like another poster, I thought I was taking the high road. After her explosion that morning, though, I was on the fence with actually giving it to her. When she gave me a gift with our families all around, I felt guilty not giving her something, so I went and brought it out. She was all smiles and happy and kissing me, telling me she loves me and showing it off to her mom and sister.
> 
> I stayed up until 1:30AM putting together the Santa gifts and never got a chance to move my stuff from our bedroom to the guest room so I ended up crashing there both Xmas eve and Xmas. I also didn't want to have my daughter asking why I wasn't sleeping in there on Xmas morning...
> 
> Xmas day and the day after she was civil. "I love you" when she or I would step out of the house, etc. Kids were around so I reciprocated, but ugh...
> 
> Then today, her mood was less civil. She came out at one point showing me a fashion pill dispenser she bought "before _ got all mad" - I don't believe that for one second. It had nothing in it and still had tags! Not to mention that I didn't raise my voice during that altercation until I told her to stop hitting me.
> 
> Then we took the girls to see Frozen II and then dinner. At dinner, I was going to say something to my oldest but was interrupted and forgot what I was going to say. She says "Maybe it was a lie. Oh, that was a joke. Hahaha" - WTF?
> 
> So, I'm sitting here in the guest room debating whether I should just go grab my pillow and sleep over here... Yes, I will._


_

Yes take yourself out of that game! Grab your pillow because she will not leave the room. No arguing with that type of person._


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## aquarius1

Her crazy is making you crazy.
You've been in this crap so long you are having trouble knowing whats real.
You are real, your feelings are real.
Separate yourself from her before you wake up and another year of your life has slipped away.
You are in IC right? You need a sane anchor.
Keep moving forward with your plans. 
A New Year awaits in more ways than one.


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## Chuck71

You are allowing this to affect you. Do you enjoy this? She is playing you and having a ball doing it.

Great W to others, monster to you. I did notice you stated she was hitting you. Why didn't you call the police?

Beware of her drumming up a false DV charge on you. That would sure tickle her fancy.

I want to go into more detail but I think giving you a reading assignment would be much better.

It says pretty much what I was going to say but it more detail. 

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/63357-time-regroup-move.html

Rather long read but the advice and insight is invaluable.


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## BluesPower

No brother, she is not an enigma... She is ****ing crazy...

When are you going to stop expecting her to act like a normal person. She is a crazy person that hates your guts....

Let that sink in for a second.... SHE IS A CRAZY PERSON THAT HATES YOUR GUTS, YOUR EXISTIANCE.... 

You better put a lock on your BR door our you will wake up DEAD... 

Brother, please a thousand times please, get out, get out of this insane relationship...


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## father_of_2

Thanks, that is an interesting read and I'll get into it more later.

3:45am this morning, I'm sound asleep in the guest room with door locked and she comes banging on the door.

- why are you sleeping in here?
- you aren't going to be comfortable
- your back will be hurting in the morning
- you won't sleep well
- come back to bed

I said no, I'm going to stay in here.

She pleaded with me to come back to bed again. I said no again and closed the door. Mistake: I didn't relock it.

She has barged in 4 times to "get XYZ". Threw my phone on the floor, slammed the door 3 of those 4 times. Loudly putting away pots and pans at 4:30am, loudly doing laundry at 5am. The guest room is right next to the kitchen and laundry room, so she knew full well what she was doing.

And it's all so hypocritical. She slept in here or on the couch multiple times over the course of several weeks after her hospitalization and I never said a word in protest.

It's maddening...


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## father_of_2

Chuck71 said:


> I did notice you stated she was hitting you. Why didn't you call the police?



I wasn't injured in the slightest. She started punching me in the gut with a pill bottle after I confronted her for not taking her psych meds, yelling that I should lose weight.

I guess I should have, but it was Xmas Eve and my kids were looking forward to the party we were hosting that night.

I did tell her if she hit me again I would call 911, to which she replied "you're such a ****ing pansy!"

I did capture all of this on my VAR.



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## 3Xnocharm

Well now you know, lock that damn door. 

Do you have a plan yet? You can’t keep doing this. She needs to go stay with her parents. But if she refuses to leave, what is your backup plan? After her attack on you with the pill bottle, I feel like you need to go to the police and outline to them what is going on there. Play some of the recordings for them so they know just what you’re dealing with. Just a thought, preemptive protection. 

You need to do something, immediately. 




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## Tilted 1

Of two, you got to stop playing by her rules get a set of ear plugs and wear them. How does your STBX treat the kids again? Maybe it's time to get with the lawyer and end this.This would be the best as a dad you can do. 

Now is the time to change you static life to your new life.


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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> I wasn't injured in the slightest. She started punching me in the gut with a pill bottle after I confronted her for not taking her psych meds, yelling that I should lose weight.
> 
> I guess I should have, but it was Xmas Eve and my kids were looking forward to the party we were hosting that night.
> 
> I did tell her if she hit me again I would call 911, to which she replied "you're such a ****ing pansy!"
> 
> I did capture all of this on my VAR.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To intensify @BluesPower comment, she is BSC, bat s##t crazy. Unless you can read her emotions,

which you obviously can't, you do not engage with her. THAT is what she WANTS.

Ya know how to take her games away, STOP playing them. Get a dead bolt for the door.

Move your essentials there or get bank box. She is ramping up her game. You aren't ready for it so 

don't even try to play. The only thing you should say to her is "I'm done with this. I am filing for a D.

If you have anything to say to me, run it through my lawyer. And we both can tell the kids or I will."

You are in for a tormented life if you stay. I can promise you, it will continually get worse.


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## Prodigal

father_of_2 said:


> And it's all so hypocritical. She slept in here or on the couch multiple times over the course of several weeks after her hospitalization and I never said a word in protest.
> 
> It's maddening...


Well, yeah, it IS maddening … because you continue to let it be this way. Get a lawyer and divorce her crazy ass. You're starting to get unhinged. Crazy begets crazy. Believe me, I know. I was married to an alcoholic. I got out to save my life and my sanity.

I suggest you do the same. And soon.


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## Openminded

Yes, she’s crazy and yet you seem constantly surprised by her behavior. You shouldn’t. She’s got depths of crazy that haven’t even been touched yet. Anticipate it and plan accordingly.


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## lucy999

Sir, your children are living in an abusive home. So are you. By your continuing to stay makes you complicit in that abuse. GTFO!

I've read your entire thread but I can't recall--why are you staying? Remind me.


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## Livvie

Openminded said:


> Yes, she’s crazy and yet you seem constantly surprised by her behavior. You shouldn’t. She’s got depths of crazy that haven’t even been touched yet. Anticipate it and plan accordingly.


This.


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## Chuck71

lucy999 said:


> Sir, your children are living in an abusive home. So are you. By your continuing to stay makes you complicit in that abuse. GTFO!
> 
> I've read your entire thread but I can't recall--why are you staying? Remind me.


 @lucy999 is correct. If you stay, your little girls will grow up to be like their mom. A miserable person who

hates herself. If your W loved herself and was unhappy as she said, she would have D you years ago.

But with your daughters growing up to be a mini version of your W, they too will lead miserable lives.

Have children they mistreat and manipulate, while being M to a man, similar to you.

But YOU can change all that. Have your daughters grow up in a healthy environment.

You're waffling on filing for D......do it for your girls. You can always date your W years down the 

road if she seeks help and begins recovery. But right now, she thinks YOU are the crazy one.

GTFO.......See a lawyer tomorrow. End 2019 on a positive note.


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## father_of_2

You all sure have a way of opening a dude's eyes...

The lawyer I've been speaking with was off for Xmas but I'll give him a call tomorrow to set up the appointment. Last time we talked he did give me a few things to begin pulling together - a timeline, financial status, a budget for her to live on her own should a judge grant a temporary order.

Luckily I'm very meticulous about our budget so that won't be an issue.

What has held me back? Simple - fear - of the unknown, of hurting my kids, of the financial implications, of being a single dad. Even, yes, of hurting my wife and her family.

I also have some deeply rooted self esteem issues that I'm working on with my IC that I am determined to overcome. This causes the nagging thoughts of "you'll never find someone again," which I know is just negative self talk, but it's something I'm working on.

I'm moving forward with the divorce. The holidays have slowed me down but I'll get it moving.

I have slept in the guest room for three nights now and except that first night it's been pretty nice. No lights coming on at 3am with lots of commotion, no being woken up just to be harassed. I've moved my essentials over here to make my evening and morning routines easy, though my clothes are still in the master bedroom.


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## Chuck71

The link I sent you on post #153 is your road map for success. ReGroup and you have similar situations.

That thread was one of the most active ones on here, when I came to TAM. Again that thread is your

road map for success. ReGroup's W also ridiculed him, berated him, used his daughter as a pawn

to get to him. All of us who posted on his thread rode the journey with him, through good and bad.

We posters on yours are willing to do the same for you but....it's a choice YOU have to make.

ReGroup was scared of the unknown....until the posters lead him to the door. He chose to open the door.

ReGroup's life changed.

So can yours


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## lucy999

father_of_2 said:


> What has held me back? Simple - fear - of the unknown, of hurting my kids


Respectfully, I can't imagine them being hurt worse than they have been, being in your BSC household. Kids see and absorb way more than we think they do.

You owe it to your kids to get them out. If it were just you, that's one thing. But you're their father. It's your duty to protect them.

I realize this is a horse of a different color, but my dear friend's husband is an alcoholic. They have 3 children. I've seen first hand the devastation her staying with him has caused her children (and to her). It's downright tragic. When I talk to her kids, they reference their alcoholic dad alot. That's not normal nor healthy. While I love my friend dearly, I'm mad at her for subjecting her kids to that crap year after year. Their innocence is lost.

Put your other fears aside because frankly, they don't really matter. The kids' wellbeing should come first.

Keep going.


----------



## BluesPower

father_of_2 said:


> You all sure have a way of opening a dude's eyes...
> 
> The lawyer I've been speaking with was off for Xmas but I'll give him a call tomorrow to set up the appointment. Last time we talked he did give me a few things to begin pulling together - a timeline, financial status, a budget for her to live on her own should a judge grant a temporary order.
> 
> Luckily I'm very meticulous about our budget so that won't be an issue.
> 
> What has held me back? Simple - fear - of the unknown, of hurting my kids, of the financial implications, of being a single dad. Even, yes, of hurting my wife and her family.
> 
> I also have some deeply rooted self esteem issues that I'm working on with my IC that I am determined to overcome. This causes the nagging thoughts of "you'll never find someone again," which I know is just negative self talk, but it's something I'm working on.
> 
> I'm moving forward with the divorce. The holidays have slowed me down but I'll get it moving.
> 
> I have slept in the guest room for three nights now and except that first night it's been pretty nice. No lights coming on at 3am with lots of commotion, no being woken up just to be harassed. I've moved my essentials over here to make my evening and morning routines easy, though my clothes are still in the master bedroom.


I can't remember what your self-esteem issues are, or if you have even said.

But brother, whatever they are they are no reason to stay with this woman. You could be the fattest, grossest, dumbest, ugliest man alive and you do not deserve this. And you never have. 

Further, whatever your issues are, I actually promise that they are not as bad as you think. You are like a dog that has been beaten over and over again. 

I will spare you the speech about how there are hundreds of women with in a hundred mile radius of you that would appreciate a decent man like you. It is true, but for now you just have to get out. 

Oh, and staying with her is hurting your children, that is probably the worst and stupidest thing you have done is to not realize that part. 

GTFO of this marriage for God's sake...


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## father_of_2

Woke up this morning to the sound of the garage door opening. Looked at my phone and saw she texted that she was going grocery shopping and she would have told me but she can't get to me. And that she doesn't understand the point of all this.

She's going out with a friend in a couple hours. I'll give the attorney a call then.


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## father_of_2

BluesPower said:


> I can't remember what your self-esteem issues are, or if you have even said.



It comes from my own mother being mentally ill and taking that out on us kids in much the way that my wife does. And my dad staying with her - however, she was much more compliant with doctors and medications than my wife is.

In addition, I was bullied constantly growing up by my older brother and shoved aside in terms of attention from my parents because of my twin younger sisters.

As a result of this and not realizing the effect of it when I was younger, I spent most of my teens and twenties believing I was a POS. 

I went through periods where I was - moved out at 20, got a full time job in IT, decided to go back to school and finish my degree.

But I also ate myself to nearly 370 lbs, didn't go on any dates between the ages of 23 and 28 and generally didn't like myself. 

Then I met my wife, who gave me attention, even if it came with a side of derision. I lost 100 lbs, became more self confident, got a master's degree and have become successful in my career. This on top of having my amazing daughters.

But those self esteem issues are still in the back of my mind. That's what I'm working on overcoming.


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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> It comes from my own mother being mentally ill and taking that out on us kids in much the way that my wife does. And my dad staying with her - however, she was much more compliant with doctors and medications than my wife is.
> 
> In addition, I was bullied constantly growing up by my older brother and shoved aside in terms of attention from my parents because of my twin younger sisters.
> 
> As a result of this and not realizing the effect of it when I was younger, I spent most of my teens and twenties believing I was a POS.
> 
> I went through periods where I was - moved out at 20, got a full time job in IT, decided to go back to school and finish my degree.
> 
> But I also ate myself to nearly 370 lbs, didn't go on any dates between the ages of 23 and 28 and generally didn't like myself.
> 
> Then I met my wife, who gave me attention, even if it came with a side of derision. I lost 100 lbs, became more self confident, got a master's degree and have become successful in my career. This on top of having my amazing daughters.
> 
> But those self esteem issues are still in the back of my mind. That's what I'm working on overcoming.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is your relationship with your parents / siblings now? Those issues should be addressed 

with an IC. Your attachment / abandonment emotions are creeping up on you during this mess.

Your fear of the past are now dictating your moves for the future. Did you M her because she was

the first female to show you attention? Did she remind you of your mother?

Do you wish for your daughters to end up like your W and mother?

Break this cycle. 

Again see an IC to get to your root issue from childhood


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## father_of_2

Yes, I am seeing an IC to work through all of this. Interestingly, I was going to another IC to have a place to vent my frustrations with my wife. I feel it became too complicated a situation for him. His advice was always to be passive, talk to her doctor, and not engage. 

My wife and I saw an MC in 2017 the last time a similar situation played out. When I tried to get my wife to go to MC again this time, I made the appointment but she refused to go. So I went by myself. The MC has now become my IC and has given me the same type of advice you all have but it's difficult to get appointments with her.

To answer your question about my parents/siblings - I get along pretty well with my dad, despite his story-topping conversational style. He's a former Air Force colonel and was always pretty strict. Constantly butting heads with him is why I moved out at 20. He and I are similar in our professional ambition and interests. But he always favored my brother.

My relationship with my mom is cordial but I don't talk to her much. I see her when I see my dad, of course, but she guilt trips me (and my siblings) constantly, so I minimize my exposure. She favored me a lot of the time but that just meant more exposure to her illness as a child, which I got pretty sick of by the time I was 11 or 12.

I haven't seen my brother in 2 yrs, nor have I met his son, which is sad. His wife wants nothing to do with my wife because of my wife's delusions about his wife (that she hacked my wife's phone, put a GPS tracker on my wife's car, hired private investigators to follow her, etc.). On top of that, my brother and I can't be in the same room for more than a couple hours before he starts picking on me and I get fed up and tell him to get bent.

I get along with my sisters ok but don't spend much time with them and don't really have in depth conversations with them.

In short - the person I'm closest to in my family is my dad (but there are limitations) and I'm not close to any of siblings.

I was always closer to my friends than family. But my wife has driven my best friend largely out of my life because of delusions about his wife (the catalyst for the 2017 incident), and most of my other friends wives don't meet her standards either. So I get to hang out with co-workers who I consider friends when I travel for work and I hang out with one of my oldest friends who has never gotten married once every 6 months. Otherwise I spend all of my time with my wife, my kids, and my wife's family.


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## pastasauce79

Dealing with someone with bipolar disorder is tough. A dear family member is bipolar. About 15 years ago she got diagnosed with depression and anxiety but last year she got two hypomaniac episodes and she was diagnosed bipolar.

During those hypomaniac episodes she got delusions, paranoia, insomnia, and anger issues. Her husband became her enemy. She picked on him all day, every day, following him, asking what he was doing, calling and texting him 100 times a day. Her poor husband was exhausted. I helped watching her for a few days and I thought I was going to lose my mind!

She's back to mostly normal now. She's taking a low dose of Prozac which I don't know if it is helping. 

I see her becoming introverted and anxious. She gets along with her husband but sometimes I see a lot of exaggerated anger towards him. She says she doesn't remember her hypomaniac episodes. 

I can imagine how angry and mean your wife could be towards you. And no matter how good you are towards her, her obsessive mind is going to focus on the bad or the delusions she's had. 

It's sad your wife has mental health issues, but you have to focus on you and your children. If she's not willing to take her medicine and go to counseling then there's nothing you can do to help her. It's her choice to live the way she's living. You have to choose a better life for you and your children. 

Don't get pulled into the same crazy mindset. You have to focus on the good qualities you have. Don't be afraid of being on your own. Sometimes is better being alone than being around toxic or crazy family members. 

Once you are on your own you can start going out with friends. You can meet new people. You don't have to rescue your wife anymore or being responsible for her decisions or her actions. 

Focus on the positives that a future without her can bring. Be excited about a new and calmer house. You can eat whatever you want! You can start new routines and traditions with your kids. You can show your kids how to have a normal household. 

To me you have a lot of good things to focus on while you are dealing with a divorce. 

Don't be afraid. Be firm and decisive. You are in control of your life and you are going to succeed just like you've done it with your career. 

2020 could be the beginning of a new chapter in your life. Divorce your wife. It's time for you to have a normal life. You deserve it!


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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> Yes, I am seeing an IC to work through all of this. Interestingly, I was going to another IC to have a place to vent my frustrations with my wife. I feel it became too complicated a situation for him. His advice was always to be passive, talk to her doctor, and not engage.
> 
> My wife and I saw an MC in 2017 the last time a similar situation played out. When I tried to get my wife to go to MC again this time, I made the appointment but she refused to go. So I went by myself. The MC has now become my IC and has given me the same type of advice you all have but it's difficult to get appointments with her.
> 
> To answer your question about my parents/siblings - I get along pretty well with my dad, despite his story-topping conversational style. He's a former Air Force colonel and was always pretty strict. Constantly butting heads with him is why I moved out at 20. He and I are similar in our professional ambition and interests. But he always favored my brother.
> 
> My relationship with my mom is cordial but I don't talk to her much. I see her when I see my dad, of course, but she guilt trips me (and my siblings) constantly, so I minimize my exposure. She favored me a lot of the time but that just meant more exposure to her illness as a child, which I got pretty sick of by the time I was 11 or 12.
> 
> I haven't seen my brother in 2 yrs, nor have I met his son, which is sad. His wife wants nothing to do with my wife because of my wife's delusions about his wife (that she hacked my wife's phone, put a GPS tracker on my wife's car, hired private investigators to follow her, etc.). On top of that, my brother and I can't be in the same room for more than a couple hours before he starts picking on me and I get fed up and tell him to get bent.
> 
> I get along with my sisters ok but don't spend much time with them and don't really have in depth conversations with them.
> 
> In short - the person I'm closest to in my family is my dad (but there are limitations) and I'm not close to any of siblings.
> 
> I was always closer to my friends than family. But my wife has driven my best friend largely out of my life because of delusions about his wife (the catalyst for the 2017 incident), and most of my other friends wives don't meet her standards either. So I get to hang out with co-workers who I consider friends when I travel for work and I hang out with one of my oldest friends who has never gotten married once every 6 months. Otherwise I spend all of my time with my wife, my kids, and my wife's family.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can see why you avoid certain members of your family. I'd bet if you told your dad everything

that is going on he would give you a "toughen up" type speech. With your brother, next time you're 

around him and starts jerking you around, "That's enough, I'm tired of it, been tired of it.

Treat me with due respect or I will simply stop coming around you." It's sad families end up this way.

My STBW has a very dysfunctional family. Both her parents are alive, both mine have passed but in all

honesty, she is just as much an "orphan" as I am. Re-new that friendship with your guy friend.

I'd say he'd be glad to see you, especially when you tell him you are filing for D.

Anytime a female runs off all of the guy's friends when they M, that's an enormous red flag. 

The last thing the female would want is for one of your guy friends to see her BSC actions before you

and give you a heads up.


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## father_of_2

Another not so fun, drama filled weekend has just concluded.

Aside from her temper tantrum the first night I stayed in the guest room, Xmas Eve had been the most recent major confrontation.

When I woke up yesterday, she was knocking on the door at 8:30am wanting me to help with the girls. Fine. But when I got up she says "how much longer are you going to sleep in there?" I said, "I don't know" just to get her off my back and it worked - until last night after the kids were in bed.

She had been napping for hours, as she has done nearly every day of 2019 and now the beginning of 2020. So, as usual, I got both girls fed, changed into pajamas, read bedtime stories, brushed teeth, got them to bed.

I finally sat down to watch the end of the Titans/Patriots game and out she comes, ready to have a talk. She says "so how much longer are you going to sleep in there?"

I said, "as long as I feel like it's necessary"

I shared my feelings that she's been very abusive, she has gone on tirades full of name calling and ridicule, and that I will not tolerate it. That, combined with her getting violent on Xmas Eve, makes me concerned for my emotional and physical safety sleeping with her.

She apologized for her behavior, said she knows it was wrong, that she never should have struck me and said she would never do it again. I thanked her for apologizing but told her I didn't know if I could believe it because it has happened SO MANY times. 

She asked what I want from her. I said I want an acknowledgement that there is something more significant going on than just depression and anxiety, that I want her to take responsibility for her mental health. That she doesn't realize the toll her mental health has taken on me, the kids, her family, and mine.

She then went into an emotional speech covering many things, from reminding me that I'm not a doctor (for the hundredth time) to telling me that I didn't go through the trauma she did with the miscarriages to saying that the doctors in the hospital said that the account I gave the police and the nurse in the hospital "wasn't her" - which she has taken to mean that I embellished to get her on more meds. She then starts saying if I don't love her anymore and don't want to be married to her, that's OK and if that's what God has planned for her, then she'll figure it out.

I said she is turning out all around to make herself into the victim, when in fact she has done all these things to me. I recounted that I was interrogated by police in my own front yard (which she only remembers as me shooting the breeze with the police and firefighters), that if anyone had believed her that I could be in jail right now.

This is all familiar territory.

She then changed tactic abs started saying she's concerned about me getting back pain from the guest room bed, and some other equally vapid excuses.

I never heard her say she wants to come back because she loves me, misses me, and wants to work on rebuilding our marriage. All I heard was reasons why it hurts her feelings and bruises her ego.

Basically it ended with me saying we're at an impasse and I don't see a way past it.

Today, same thing. Knocking on the door to help with the girls. 9am this time, which is fine.

But she barely said two words to me all day. Wouldn't look at me.

Tonight, after the familiar bedtime routine, I got to spend about 3 peaceful hours alone watching TV.

Then, as I'm about to go to bed, she comes out. I was moving her laptop and papers out of the guest room in case she needed to work.

She says "since you say you're SO scared for your safety around me, I've decided I just won't talk to you." I said, "OK" and went to bed.

I haven't been able to go to an appt with the lawyer yet because she and the kids have been in Xmas break and it's near impossible for me to get away. Moreso because she leaves me with the kids all day while she naps.

They're all back to school/work tomorrow. Things will be set in motion.


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## Chuck71

Deflecting at it's finest. DARVO example at a PhD level. You should have said -I'm running into town,

stay AWAKE for three hours to watch YOUR kids. Her sleeping like Rhonda Van Winkle is an excuse. 

Enforce your boundaries.


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## aquarius1

You are on the right path. Head down, move forward.
Call that lawyer today.
Its time for this to end. For you AND your children.
Trust me, you cant fix crazy.
She needs a more contrite attitude and a serious pursuit of health with a specialist (Psychiatrist)

Please keep moving ahead with your plans before you and your kids are consumed by this. 

From what you have written i can see the cycle of abuse is escalating again. Keep your VAR glued to you. And call 911 this time. NO EXCEPTIONS


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## Cynthia

I agree that it is imperative that you call 911 if/when she hits, kicks, scratches, or anything of that nature. If there are no consequences, she will continue and likely escalate. 

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## 3Xnocharm

I'd like to know what the hell happened to her going to stay with her folks..!


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## Marduk

If you're going to divorce her, these interactions were totally unnecessary and only served to increase the drama in your life. Is that what you want?



father_of_2 said:


> Another not so fun, drama filled weekend has just concluded.
> 
> Aside from her temper tantrum the first night I stayed in the guest room, Xmas Eve had been the most recent major confrontation.
> 
> When I woke up yesterday, she was knocking on the door at 8:30am wanting me to help with the girls. Fine. But when I got up she says "how much longer are you going to sleep in there?" I said, "I don't know" just to get her off my back and it worked - until last night after the kids were in bed.
> 
> She had been napping for hours, as she has done nearly every day of 2019 and now the beginning of 2020. So, as usual, I got both girls fed, changed into pajamas, read bedtime stories, brushed teeth, got them to bed.
> 
> I finally sat down to watch the end of the Titans/Patriots game and out she comes, ready to have a talk. She says "so how much longer are you going to sleep in there?"
> 
> I said, "as long as I feel like it's necessary"


Good answer. It should have ended there.



> I shared my feelings that she's been very abusive, she has gone on tirades full of name calling and ridicule, and that I will not tolerate it. That, combined with her getting violent on Xmas Eve, makes me concerned for my emotional and physical safety sleeping with her.


Zero point in this interaction.



> She apologized for her behavior, said she knows it was wrong, that she never should have struck me and said she would never do it again. I thanked her for apologizing but told her I didn't know if I could believe it because it has happened SO MANY times.


Zero point in her apology, you _thanking_ her for it, or you telling her that you don't believe her. The divorce will do that for you.



> She asked what I want from her. I said I want an acknowledgement that there is something more significant going on than just depression and anxiety, that I want her to take responsibility for her mental health. That she doesn't realize the toll her mental health has taken on me, the kids, her family, and mine.


She asked you for an out, and you gave it to her.



> She then went into an emotional speech covering many things, from reminding me that I'm not a doctor (for the hundredth time) to telling me that I didn't go through the trauma she did with the miscarriages to saying that the doctors in the hospital said that the account I gave the police and the nurse in the hospital "wasn't her" - which she has taken to mean that I embellished to get her on more meds. She then starts saying if I don't love her anymore and don't want to be married to her, that's OK and if that's what God has planned for her, then she'll figure it out.


And then she told you she wouldn't do what you asked her to do, and said it was OK for you to leave her. At that point, you should have certainly concluded the conversation with something like... "I'll take that under advisement."



> I said she is turning out all around to make herself into the victim, when in fact she has done all these things to me. I recounted that I was interrogated by police in my own front yard (which she only remembers as me shooting the breeze with the police and firefighters), that if anyone had believed her that I could be in jail right now.


Someone that identifies as a victim will always see themselves as a victim, no matter what you do or say. It's their identity, not an attribute.



> This is all familiar territory.


And yet you play into it in a familiar way.



> She then changed tactic abs started saying she's concerned about me getting back pain from the guest room bed, and some other equally vapid excuses.


All she did is try to paint herself as the caring one here, which is an opportunity you gave her.



> I never heard her say she wants to come back because she loves me, misses me, and wants to work on rebuilding our marriage. All I heard was reasons why it hurts her feelings and bruises her ego.


Because she doesn't.



> Basically it ended with me saying we're at an impasse and I don't see a way past it.
> 
> Today, same thing. Knocking on the door to help with the girls. 9am this time, which is fine.
> 
> But she barely said two words to me all day. Wouldn't look at me.
> 
> Tonight, after the familiar bedtime routine, I got to spend about 3 peaceful hours alone watching TV.
> 
> Then, as I'm about to go to bed, she comes out. I was moving her laptop and papers out of the guest room in case she needed to work.
> 
> She says "since you say you're SO scared for your safety around me, I've decided I just won't talk to you." I said, "OK" and went to bed.
> 
> I haven't been able to go to an appt with the lawyer yet because she and the kids have been in Xmas break and it's near impossible for me to get away. Moreso because she leaves me with the kids all day while she naps.
> 
> They're all back to school/work tomorrow. Things will be set in motion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So... let your actions speak for you instead of your words. After you talk to the lawyer, do everything he/she tells you to do. Everything. And when your lawyer tells you to inform her, do so in the plainest, coldest way possible... with an escape route.


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## RebuildingMe

18 pages long, same behavior, same results, still no lawyer retained. FO2, you need to find your happiness one way or another. You are keeping yourself in hell now. You need to climb out.


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## 3Xnocharm

father_of_2 said:


> She says "since you say you're SO scared for your safety around me, I've decided I just won't talk to you." *I said, "OK" and went to bed.
> *


THIS needs to be your go-to response to most of the crap she spews your way. Just "OK" and then wander away. It isnt you agreeing with her, its you getting away from her.


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## TomNebraska

sunsetmist said:


> There are degrees of Bipolar disorder and your situation sounds miserable. You have never lived in a mentally healthy home and this makes your decisions more difficult.
> 
> My ex had Bipolar II (DSM_IV) and NPD with BPD tendencies. ...


I was just thinking that sounds similar to what father_of_2 is experiencing here; maybe not NPD as much, but definitely some strong symptoms of BPD (particularly the abusive parts, re-writing history/selective memory, and fear of abandonment).

So, medication is not the answer; that may serve to reduce the severity of bipolar episodes, but it won't do anything to address her high conflict nature.


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## father_of_2

I have a deep seated need to set the record straight and defend myself. I have always done so, even as a kid when my siblings would unfairly malign me. I distinctly remember my dad telling me I don't always have to fight back, even if I'm right, when my sisters were being confrontational and me saying "I can't just let her win!"

I think it's the same thing here. I have a need to fight back.

I'm in contact with the lawyer today and trying to make an appt


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> I have a deep seated need to set the record straight and defend myself. I have always done so, even as a kid when my siblings would unfairly malign me. I distinctly remember my dad telling me I don't always have to fight back, even if I'm right, when my sisters were being confrontational and me saying "I can't just let her win!"
> 
> I think it's the same thing here. I have a need to fight back.
> 
> I'm in contact with the lawyer today and trying to make an appt


You are no longer a child. You are a grown man. You know this is a problem. Now is the time to stop thinking that way and going down that road. It's not doing you any good. It is increasing the drama. Do you think you might have a need for drama?


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## father_of_2

Don't think it's a need for drama so much I don't automatically defuse it and, agreed, that's what I need to do instead of engaging in a pointless argument.


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## Affaircare

@father_of_2, 

May I give you an example so you can see how this plays out?

My exH cheated on me, moved to another state with a woman who had 4 children by 4 men, and refused to stop cheating. I filed for divorce. 

He immediately went to all our clients, our co-workers/employees, and anyone who would listen and told them *I* divorced him, I was the one breaking up the family, I was the one with anger issues, and we were divorcing due to my abuse, etc. Naturally, I had a DEEP-seated urge to defend my honor and set the record straight...and yet I didn't act on it, to my exH -OR- to the clients, co-workers, and friends. 

I realized that anything I said to my STBXH--any word I said, no matter how I said it--would be twisted and used as a weapon against me. It wasn't like I would explain why I got angry and he'd say, "Oh you have a good point there! It was reasonable for you to get angry. Thanks for explaining that to me." NOPE! I don't care if I had been St. Theresa and he was Satan himself...somehow or another he would take a fairly reasonable reason for finally getting angry and turn it into my fault and him being the victim. It's called DARVO, and that stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender (learn more about it here: https://www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/). Soooo...no real point in setting the record straight with STBXH!! I decided it was just wisest to say "That's YOUR opinion--mine differs greatly" over and over again and not engage. 

I also realised that if I tried to defend my honor and set the record straight with the co-workers, clients, and friends, I'd actually be joining in HIS GAME. See...I would be essentially doing exactly what he was accusing me of doing: being angry and talking bad about him (because in real life, I was angry about adultery and telling others of his adultery was talking bad about him because he truly was BEHAVING badly!!). Anyway, I decided that in order for there to be a "dance" there had to be two partners, and instead of doing the same thing I'd been doing--which wasn't really working out for me and always ended in more abuse--I would do the opposite! Sometimes 180 degrees different. I made the conscientious choice to bite my tongue, keep quiet, AND LET MY ACTIONS SPEAK FOR ME. I continued to be kind to the co-workers, clients, and friends. I didn't rage at them. I stayed in touch. I acted relatively happy and peaceful (because in my heart, I am happy and peaceful). And I didn't say one single word. 

Know what happened? My exH continued with his ravings about how *I* filed for divorce, and I was the one breaking up the family, I was the one with anger issues, and we were divorcing due to my abuse, etc. ... and while he raved and gradually would even rave at them, I was just quiet and happy and peaceful and kind. And every single co-worker, client, and friend eventually contacted me and said something like, "Ummm...it wasn't you, was it? He's kind of an angry person. Did he cheat on you? Yeah, I've noticed you just were calm and he was kind of over the top." 

So @father_of_2 ... you decide. You can defend yourself and set the record straight, and then you are playing the EXACT SAME GAME she is and look just as abusive and disgruntled and nuts as she looks. OR You can just bite your tongue, act in a wise, kind, peaceful, happy way and live YOUR life...and let your ACTIONS speak for you. People aren't dumb--they'll see who's doing what.


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## father_of_2

Thanks, @Affaircare, that's very insightful and helpful. I will take your (and others) advice and no longer engage.

It's exactly what I did today, except defending my D8 when my wife yelled she was going to throw away her favorite stuffed animal because D8 came home with lice today. I simply said, we aren't throwing anything away. There are other ways to deal with it.

And then, predictably, _I_ dealt with the lice with both girls alone for 2 hrs while my STBXW retired to the bedroom to nap.


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## phillybeffandswiss

father_of_2 said:


> It comes from my own mother being mentally ill and taking that out on us kids in much the way that my wife does. And my dad staying with her - however, she was much more compliant with doctors and medications than my wife is.
> 
> In addition, I was bullied constantly growing up by my older brother and shoved aside in terms of attention from my parents because of my twin younger sisters.
> 
> As a result of this and not realizing the effect of it when I was younger, I spent most of my teens and twenties believing I was a POS.
> 
> I went through periods where I was - moved out at 20, got a full time job in IT, decided to go back to school and finish my degree.
> 
> But I also ate myself to nearly 370 lbs, didn't go on any dates between the ages of 23 and 28 and generally didn't like myself.
> 
> Then I met my wife, who gave me attention, even if it came with a side of derision. I lost 100 lbs, became more self confident, got a master's degree and have become successful in my career. This on top of having my amazing daughters.
> 
> But those self esteem issues are still in the back of my mind. That's what I'm working on overcoming.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This should motivate you to get out faster. You realize your Siblings, you as well, were and are acting out your parents terrible marriage?

You stay and you continue the cycle with your children. 

Be the one to break it.


----------



## Chuck71

Let's get some expert advice for Fo2..... @Uptown


----------



## aquarius1

father_of_2 said:


> Thanks, @Affaircare, that's very insightful and helpful. I will take your (and others) advice and no longer engage.
> 
> It's exactly what I did today, except defending my D8 when my wife yelled she was going to throw away her favorite stuffed animal because D8 came home with lice today. I simply said, we aren't throwing anything away. There are other ways to deal with it.
> 
> And then, predictably, _I_ dealt with the lice with both girls alone for 2 hrs while my STBXW retired to the bedroom to nap.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yes, lice happens around 8-9 years old. 
Seriously, it runs through schools in the fall and winter.

Just wash beddings and toys on the bed in really hot water and dry in a dryer.
They key is getting rid of the eggs, which stick to the hair shaft or you will get a reinfestation in a few weeks when the eggs hatch.
I got a lady from Lice Busters to come over and show me how to do it. Get a ridged lice comb (straight misses some), coat the hair in thick conditioner after the first lice treatment. Part the hair in sections and slowly drag the comb from scalp to ends, wiping off after each time. Do this every night for 2 weeks. It's great bonding time with your daughter. If your other daughter does not have confirmed lice, no need to do it to her. Just look real close at the scalp especially around the ears and back of the neck.

You are dealing with this fine. Keep on keeping on. And leave as soon as it is possible. Keep that goal in mind. Everyday life can slow us down, think it's not the right time to leave. It is.


----------



## father_of_2

They both had confirmed, live, lice in their hair. Pretty gross, but they were both troopers last night dealing with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aquarius1

father_of_2 said:


> They both had confirmed, live, lice in their hair. Pretty gross, but they were both troopers last night dealing with it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yea. Had that with my DD. Gave me the creeps but hey we survived. Sorry thats double the work. Do they hold them out of school until they are cleared? Mine did

Just throw out winter hats etc its easier. Wash coats with hoods, scarves and brushes,combs.

Tell the girls not to share hats coats brushes or to hug people.

Lice love clean hair. Keep that in mind

LMK if i can help further
You are a good dad BTW


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## father_of_2

Thanks, @aquarius1, I needed to hear that!

She's been texting me selfies and "I love you" today... I haven't responded. It feels manipulative given the state of our world.


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## BluesPower

father_of_2 said:


> Thanks, @aquarius1, I needed to hear that!
> 
> She's been texting me selfies and "I love you" today... I haven't responded. It feels manipulative given the state of our world.


Yeah, when are you going to wake up? WHEN????? 

It does not FEEL LIKE MANIPULATION it IS manipulation. She can feel you getting some balls and she does not like it. 

Please, Please, Please, Please wake up and file for divorce. Please man...


----------



## Cynthia

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, when are you going to wake up? WHEN?????
> 
> It does not FEEL LIKE MANIPULATION it IS manipulation. She can feel you getting some balls and she does not like it.
> 
> Please, Please, Please, Please wake up and file for divorce. Please man...


Thankfully you are beginning to recognize that feeling you get is from being manipulated and you are naming it. That's a step in the right direction. 

@BluesPower is right that she doesn't like the fact that you are not putting up with her manipulation tactics. Expect escalation. When she comes at you physically, openly VAR the episode, so that you can be heard telling her she is being recorded (before you call 911), then please call 911 immediately. While you are waiting, it will be easy to get her to admit that she hit you. You will have it all recorded and they will haul her off. When she's in jail, get a permanent restraining order and have her removed from the home, so you and your children will be safe.


----------



## Marduk

father_of_2 said:


> Thanks, @aquarius1, I needed to hear that!
> 
> She's been texting me selfies and "I love you" today... I haven't responded. It feels manipulative given the state of our world.


And yet it seems to work.

Have you met with a lawyer yet?


----------



## father_of_2

Marduk said:


> And yet it seems to work.
> 
> Have you met with a lawyer yet?


Yes - awaiting a return call for the next steps meeting.


----------



## Marduk

father_of_2 said:


> Yes - awaiting a return call for the next steps meeting.


In the meantime, ignore her. Go totally dark except for logistics about the kids. This should be made clear to her, and if she won't abide by it, just block her.

All of this is designed to get a rise out of you, trigger a response that satisfies her ego and perhaps buys her time, and serves to try to make you the bad guy in all of this. 

Sometimes the best way to win is to not play the game at all. This goes to what @Affaircare said above as well. My ex said all kinds of things about me to our friends and both of our family. I didn't fight it, I was too busy just trying to pick myself back up and get out of the dumpster fire I found myself in.

Everyone figured it out sooner or later when I was just fine after the divorce, and she wasn't.


----------



## aquarius1

father_of_2 said:


> Thanks, @aquarius1, I needed to hear that!
> 
> She's been texting me selfies and "I love you" today... I haven't responded. It feels manipulative given the state of our world.


Yea, NO. She doesn't love you. She loves herself. She loves that she can be a lazy, crazy violent B around you and your kids.

She's trying to love/sex bomb you. Don't fall for that BS


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## Chuck71

aquarius1 said:


> Yea, NO. She doesn't love you. She loves herself. She loves that she can be a lazy, crazy violent B around you and your kids.
> 
> She's trying to love/sex bomb you. Don't fall for that BS


Yep.......... soon she will use her two last resorts to pull you back in. First she will try to use the kids

to get you back under her spell. When that fails, she will try to vagina bomb you.

The good news is....you have discovered her main strategy. The bad news is she will meltdown.

But as stated above, VAR and nanny cams. If she hits you again, call 911. If she says she will

drum up a false DV claim against you, you have it on tape. She is no longer your partner, she is your enemy.


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## father_of_2

More "Love you!" texts today (didn't respond) and one about her student getting attacked by another student - I just said "whoa", though after I sent it I realized I shouldn't have responded to that either. 

I've left a couple messages for the lawyer. I know he was in court all day yesterday so I left a message for his law partner but nothing back. Will text him directly now.


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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> More "Love you!" texts today (didn't respond) and one about her student getting attacked by another student - I just said "whoa", though after I sent it I realized I shouldn't have responded to that either.
> 
> I've left a couple messages for the lawyer. I know he was in court all day yesterday so I left a message for his law partner but nothing back. Will text him directly now.


I don't think you should tell her you want a D until you consult with lawyer. Reason why is you are not 

"ready for her claws" when she learns. Remember Star Wars, the first three... '77, '80, '83?

Luke was not ready to face Vader in The Empire Strikes Back. Your W is Vader. You are still Luke

when he first meets OB-1. You are far from a Jedi.....but at one time all the Jedis on TAM, weren't there yet

either. Listen to the advice given, read the books recommended, if you have ideas...

share them here. This board helped me out a lot seven years ago. I've been paying it forward ever since.

A month after DDay, my STBXW had her foot on my throat. Month later I stepped into the Tao...

things quickly changed. I took the power back and she began making reaches for me. But it was not 

what I wanted to hear. By the next month.....she didn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

I tell you this because I KNOW you can make it, IF you want it. Myself and all the other posters will

be right here with you as you ride the roller coaster. Some days will be hard but they decrease with time.

My two D threads are still on the boards, I never deleted them. 

If you want out, make things happen. But hold off on telling her you want a D until consulting

with your lawyer. Be sure to mention she will have a Three Mile Island meltdown. 

Did you ever start reading that link I sent you? ReGroup's thread?


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## Uptown

@Chuck71, thanks for the call-out. Actually, Father and I discussed this issue over 2 years ago in his first thread (Oct 2017). My first post observed that he seemed to be describing symptoms of PPD, given the recent birth of his second child -- and I suggested he speak with a psychiatrist. He dismissed PPD as being unlikely because he recalled seeing similar paranoid behavior before his W had given birth to their first child over six years earlier.

Father therefore believed that her dysfunctional behaviors likely arise from a lifetime condition that is "just part of who she is." Because he had read that paranoia and temper tantrums are two symptoms for BPD, he had already started suspecting that her symptoms were those of BPD or perhaps Delusional Disorder.

In my last post in that first thread, I suggested that -- because he was seeing verbal and physical abuse lasting over 6 years --he look at my list of 18 BPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. Father never returned to that thread, however.

Six weeks later, Father started a new thread and I again brought up the issue of BPD -- and I again asked him to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. This time he responded, stating that most of those traits "ring a bell."

I therefore wrote a lengthy post discussing the implications of various BPD traits. Again, Father did not respond to my post or show any interest in BPD. This is why I have not participated in this new thread. I respect Father's right to establish the topic for each of his own threads.


----------



## father_of_2

@Uptown, I do appreciate your input now and did then as well. Things improved in 2018 as her episode waned and we ended having a good year, which was why I stopped posting. This past year is when it all went downhill.

I think I wasn't ready to accept the situation in 2017 - I didn't see it for what it really is and still had hope that my wife would get better, we'd put it all behind us, and go on to have a happy life together.

My opinion now (backed up by opinions from my old IC, my new IC, her IC - which she told me privately, and two different nurses in the hospital) is that she's bipolar with psychotic features. There's perhaps BPD in there, too. I've read they can go hand in hand and also that one can often look like the other.

She's not willing to accept any diagnosis beyond "depression and anxiety" but it's so much more than that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## father_of_2

@Uptown, I just re-read your posts in my previous thread from 2017 as well as the 18 traits of BPD. I'd be lying if I said she hasn't exhibited each and every one of those traits at one time or another.

You mentioned fear of abandonment as a consistant trait in all BPDers. I hadn't thought about it in context 2 years ago but yes - this is definitely something she exhibits. It can be something as simple as me going to AutoZone or the grocery store or to the gas station to get a drink and I get the third degree about when I will be back, why I need to go right that second, what I'm going to buy. And then get in trouble when I get home for taking too long. I got to the point where I would head this off by clearly explaining where I was going, how quickly I'd be back, etc. which seems to placate her.

Case in point - last night after taking care of bedtime I decided I'm going to do something for myself and go see Star Wars. I am confident enough to go to a movie alone so here I go. Out of courtesy I went in to the bedroom, woke her up to tell her I was going to the movies - "right now?? Why?? Who are you going with??????"

Uncanny...

And you did mention that Bipolar-1 and BPD go hand in hand 50% of the time. This seems very likely to me and I'll be bringing it up with my IC at my next appointment, which is supposed to be next week but I'll see if she has any openings tomorrow.

My lawyer's associate has been out of the office with flu, which is why she hasn't returned my calls. And he has been in court this week. Trying to connect with him to get the ball rolling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## father_of_2

She's been sending me a lot of sunshiny texts today as well as wanting hugs and kisses when she leaves for work in the morning - I've completely ignored her texts today but I'm really having a difficult time with it as it's not like me to be unkind and not respond. She and I used to send loving texts throughout the day every day before she started up with the abuse again... it hurts to not be able to consider her my partner and best friend anymore.


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## 3Xnocharm

You are doing good not answering. Just keep reminding yourself its a trap.


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## BluesPower

father_of_2 said:


> She's been sending me a lot of sunshiny texts today as well as wanting hugs and kisses when she leaves for work in the morning - I've completely ignored her texts today but I'm really having a difficult time with it as it's not like me to be unkind and not respond. She and I used to send loving texts throughout the day every day before she started up with the abuse again... it hurts to not be able to consider her my partner and best friend anymore.


Well get used to it, OK. Do something to keep busy. 

Man, you have got to get away from this insane woman ASAP... Please stay the course. 

She is doing this because she knows you are serious, if you go back, it will start again. 

I am really hoping she does not kill you over the next few weeks. I hope that wakes you up to how serious YOU BEING STRONG IS right now. 

Your kids are depending on you...


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## father_of_2

Finally was able to speak with the lawyer just now. He's emailing the paperwork to me to file - looking at filing Monday.


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> Finally was able to speak with the lawyer just now. He's emailing the paperwork to me to file - looking at filing Monday.


This is a step in the right direction. When your wife is served, she will likely be severely triggered. Please keep a VAR with you at all times and be ready to dial 911. This could escalate quickly.

Keep telling yourself that hitting, punching, etc. is abuse and you have to set boundaries. It is the right thing to do. Calling 911 isn't a punishment. It is an appropriate response to abuse, as is divorce.


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## farsidejunky

father_of_2 said:


> I have a deep seated need to set the record straight and defend myself. I have always done so, even as a kid when my siblings would unfairly malign me. I distinctly remember my dad telling me I don't always have to fight back, even if I'm right, when my sisters were being confrontational and me saying "I can't just let her win!"
> 
> I think it's the same thing here. I have a need to fight back.
> 
> I'm in contact with the lawyer today and trying to make an appt
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your deep-seated need to defend yourself is nothing more than you trying to hide your own insecurities. 

A secure person does not need others to believe what they already know to be right.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## father_of_2

You're right, @farsidejunky. I'll remember that the next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PieceOfSky

From 

https://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do

The JADE link therein might be relevant to that deep seated need:

https://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/jade-dont-justify-argue-defend-explain


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## father_of_2

I was fully expecting to be grilled when she got home about why I didn't respond to her texts, but she was all sunshine and rainbows. The fake happy personality she puts on at parties and with family is now what she's using on me. Including trying to play footsie on the couch. I moved my feet away.

I got the paperwork from the lawyer to start filling out - his divorce questionnaire. I'll work on that tonight once the kids are in bed.
@PieceOfSky, thanks for that article. I started reading a bit of it and it makes a lot of sense. I'll finish reading it tonight.


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## ConanHub

farsidejunky said:


> Your deep-seated need to defend yourself is nothing more than you trying to hide your own insecurities.
> 
> A secure person does not need others to believe what they already know to be right.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I agree with this with the caveat that I don't care until someone crosses a line to hinder me or get in my way and then the gloves are off.


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## Openminded

She probably suspects what’s coming. When it becomes reality, love-bombing may go to an entirely new level. Be prepared.


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## Cynthia

Openminded said:


> She probably suspects what’s coming. When it becomes reality, love-bombing may go to an entirely new level. Be prepared.


Let's hope. Love bombing would be much better than unhinged.


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## Chuck71

F02..... if you haven't pushed her this far before.....be aware. But be aware anyway for when she learns of D 

papers, she will meltdown. Meltdowns are very unpredictable for even people who know how to react

to them.


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## lucy999

Be prepared for anything with regard to your wife. Don't ever think, "she wouldn't do that." This is a whole other level.


----------



## Adelais

father_of_2 said:


> @Uptown, I just re-read your posts in my previous thread from 2017 as well as the 18 traits of BPD. I'd be lying if I said she hasn't exhibited each and every one of those traits at one time or another.


Remember that most everyone has exhibited every one of those traits at some point in their life. Stress causes us to not be at our best, and we can all lose it in one area and then get ourselves together.

To be considered BPD, one has to do most of them on a regular basis.


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## Adelais

She may actually be clueless that you are about to D her. She is used to drawing you back in, and that is what she is trying to do now.

When she realizes that she is no longer going to have you in her life as her object of abuse, manipulation, $, and love (when she wants it) she may very well go into a panic and begin to seriously act out (love bombing, desperation, violence and maybe even suicide attempt.)

Keep your phone on you. Do you have a recording app on it?


----------



## Cynthia

Adelais said:


> She may actually be clueless that you are about to D her. She is used to drawing you back in, and that is what she is trying to do now.
> 
> When she realizes that she is no longer going to have you in her life as her object of abuse, manipulation, $, and love (when she wants it) she may very well go into a panic and begin to seriously act out (love bombing, desperation, violence and maybe even suicide attempt.)
> 
> Keep your phone on you. Do you have a recording app on it?


This is true. If she has BPD, another thing to be aware of is a suicide attempt. I know it's hard, but even if she does attempt suicide, don't let that sway you from your plan to get away from the drama. She is not a safe person. Living and sleeping in a house with someone who sees no problem with harming you physically and lying about you is dangerous to you and the children.


----------



## father_of_2

I carry a VAR with me everywhere when she or the girls are around. I save the recordings and charge it every night.

She's never outwardly shown suicidal tendencies. We kind of got worried about that once during her long depression earlier last year when she lied about going to the partial hospitalization program when I went out of town. I think I told that story in my first post of this thread.

I am under no illusion that she'll take filling for D well. It will not be an amicable divorce. She will not accept that I will get the house and custody of the kids. She will make false accusations - potentially of heinous acts. But I will have my recordings to protect me and expose her lies and abuse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## father_of_2

Finally getting the backlash I expected for not responding to texts. She called after picking up DD2 today and asked why I don't answer her texts. After a moment, I said "I don't have anything to say"

She ended the conversation after that and hasn't said much to me since getting home. She made dinner for her and the girls, didn't even ask me if I wanted something, despite me always making enough for everyone. Ok fine no problem

I'm working on the filing paperwork but it's taking a few days to be accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

In this case, the backlash being the silent treatment is a win for you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## father_of_2

Yes indeed! I don't have to be bombarded with negativity about her day at work. She went to the bedroom when I sat down on the couch to eat dinner. She wasn't "feeling well", which is what she always says when I stand up to her and she turns herself into the victim.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> Finally getting the backlash I expected for not responding to texts. She called after picking up DD2 today and asked why I don't answer her texts. After a moment, I said "I don't have anything to say"
> 
> She ended the conversation after that and hasn't said much to me since getting home. She made dinner for her and the girls, didn't even ask me if I wanted something, despite me always making enough for everyone. Ok fine no problem
> 
> I'm working on the filing paperwork but it's taking a few days to be accurate.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very good reply.......you're getting it.

Remember to be happy, smiling, have that swag in your step.....even if you have to fake it.

Be on your game so much that you roll out a compliment (doesn't have to mean it).

"My your outfit is pretty Mz. Pxxxx" That is what I told my STBXW a few times. Reason it stunned her

is I didn't end the comment with sweetie, darling, honey, or even her first name. I ended it by calling

her in proper form by her previously M last name. Helped me separate the old her from the new her.

She told me later that really stung her. I did that to help me, not to hurt her.

Just give off the vibe that you're done, don't verbalize it yet. You're still not 100% convinced

yourself that this is over....which is normal. When you are 100% she will sense it immediately.


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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> Yes indeed!* I don't have to be bombarded with negativity about her day at work*. She went to the bedroom when I sat down on the couch to eat dinner. She wasn't "feeling well", which is what she always says when I stand up to her and she turns herself into the victim.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If she had treated you like a H you'd have listened....she hasn't in a long time. She can go boo hoo to

her female friends from work and her family. You're headed out the door so that is NOT your job

anymore (listening to her whining).

Keep up with your boundaries. Prepare for the meltdowns, they will come.

When she brings out her claws.... STAND STILL. Doing that makes her OWN her anger.


----------



## father_of_2

Well, now I've sent the completed questionnaire back to him and asked for the fee agreement. 

Lawyer feels that because of the time since her last psychosis, and indeed even since she struck me on Christmas Eve, we wouldn't be able to convince a judge to grant a restraining order. Basically, if she was dangerous enough to warrant a RO, why didn't I do it then? So we'll set a hearing in 2 weeks for temporary orders that force her to leave the house and the kids stay here.

But I told him that if she reacts violently in any way - harassing, belligerent, physically violent (which is all within the realm of possibility) - that I would change it and seek a RO.

This all feels surreal and, at the same time, like a big kick in the n**s... But I know I'm doing the right thing for myself and my kids.


----------



## father_of_2

I should note, today's attitude from her was hostile - loud and irritated in the morning. With the kids right there in the kitchen eating breakfast, she confronted me about a Walmart receipt she found last week that showed I bought a Kit Kat and a soda when I bought a load of groceries. Same song and dance about my weight. I told her "This is not the time for this conversation." She was seething after that and didn't say one more word to me before she left. Fine by me!

Wouldn't talk to me in the evening (again fine by me!) but visibly seething and then went to the bedroom before I sat down to eat dinner. Better than the alternative, I guess.

Tonight, when I was putting DD8 to bed at 8PM, she said to me "I wish mommy was awake to tell me good night" - sums the last year up pretty well, I think...


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## Chuck71

"My weight is NOT your problem"
"I see things otherwise"
"You done yet?"

Find a friend who needs a cake for a birthday party and let them pay you for it and put it on your card LOL

Let her "seeth" more. Her own anger will engulf her. Stand still and watch it happen.

How's it going with lawyer?


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## father_of_2

All good with lawyer, questionnaire submitted, just need to plop down the credit card once he sends me the fee agreement and away we go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aquarius1

father_of_2 said:


> Well, now I've sent the completed questionnaire back to him and asked for the fee agreement.
> 
> Lawyer feels that because of the time since her last psychosis, and indeed even since she struck me on Christmas Eve, we wouldn't be able to convince a judge to grant a restraining order. Basically, if she was dangerous enough to warrant a RO, why didn't I do it then? So we'll set a hearing in 2 weeks for temporary orders that force her to leave the house and the kids stay here.
> 
> But I told him that if she reacts violently in any way - harassing, belligerent, physically violent (which is all within the realm of possibility) - that I would change it and seek a RO.
> 
> This all feels surreal and, at the same time, like a big kick in the n**s... But I know I'm doing the right thing for myself and my kids.


Nobody said it would be easy. But both you and the children deserve peace. Please be safe.


----------



## In Absentia

The whole thread the wife has been vilified, treated almost like a criminal. I understand she is not pleasant (to put it mildly), but isn't she mentally ill? Not really her fault, is it? Regardless of her behaviour... I don't have the time to read the whole thing... was she like this when you got married?


----------



## RebuildingMe

Fo2, glad to see you taking steps to permanently get your life back.


----------



## father_of_2

@In Absentia, hindsight is 20/20, of course, but yes there were some incidents when we were dating that should have raised some red flags and would have if I had been raised in a household with a normal mother. She could be pretty moody, there were a couple times when she was belligerent, but no mania or psychosis until a few months after we got married and I didn't know that's what it was at the time.

I loved her and loved being with her when she was stable because she was fun, caring, and pleasant to be around. I always thought tolerating the other behavior was what I was supposed to do as a good boyfriend/husband. I would apologize for p*****g her off for wearing the wrong shoes or for getting upset with her for saying something rude to me (because it was my fault she said something rude, right?!) or whatever else she was mad about, and then she'd love me again.

This morning was more of the same hostility. First, while I was busy brushing DD2's teeth and dealing with a terrible twos kind of morning she started interrogating me about what groceries I bought last night that cost $230 from Instacart. I said I can show her the receipt if she wants. She said "just tell me!" So I said I bought meat, diapers, and more.

Then she was doing DD8's hair and asking where the bow was that DD8 wore yesterday. DD said it was in the car so my W starts in on her. Don't get me wrong, we all have to get after our kids sometimes, including me. And DD8 has a bad habit of losing things frequently, so I understand getting annoyed. But my wife will rant for several minutes and has to make her point 5 times with ridicule and it almost seems like she wants to hurt people's feelings so they do what she wants. 

So, instead of just making her point once, telling DD to go get it out of the car and take better care of her things as I would have, she started ranting at DD, telling her she is going to take $10 from her if she can't find it in the car, and ridiculing her for several minutes. Then when DD came back without a bow, she raised her voice even further and ranted some more. Told her to get another bow, went in the bedroom to put it on and then I hear DD yell out in pain.

W came out and was ranting more about taking $10 from DD while looking through her backpack. I went in to check on DD8 and she was in tears. I asked what was wrong and she said my W had yanked the two sides of her ponytail as hard as she could and hurt her. I hugged her and went out and repeated what DD8 had said to my W and asked if that was true. She said "I was tightening her ponytail, I didn't yank anything!!!"

Then she found the missing bow in DD's backpack..........

I just waited for her to leave because I've realized now that it's not worth getting into it with her and then the whole morning calmed down. Daughters and I had a nice time. DD2 sat in my lap on the couch and quietly watched cartoons for a bit before we had to go and DD8 watched her own show on her iPad.

I agree that her mental illness is not her fault and I've done everything I can think of to be supportive and help her manage it. But it's not enough because she doesn't believe anything is wrong and sees my attempts to help as malicious. But not taking her meds, not going to her therapy and psychiatrist appointments, raging through the house and being abusive certainly is her fault and I am not going to subject myself or my kids to it any longer than absolutely necessary.


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## 3Xnocharm

In Absentia said:


> The whole thread the wife has been vilified, treated almost like a criminal. I understand she is not pleasant (to put it mildly), but isn't she mentally ill? Not really her fault, is it? Regardless of her behaviour... I don't have the time to read the whole thing... was she like this when you got married?




She does not get a pass to be abusive. Also, just because you would rather not leave your psycho wife doesn’t mean you should encourage others to do the same. 




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## phillybeffandswiss

Wow......

That hair story hits home. That’s why two of my family members were raised by our grandmother. Of course there was more, but the catalyst was a very similar hair incident.

Nicer man than me. I wouldn’t summarize anything for someone passing judgment, while not having time to read to see if their statement is warranted.


Oh and abuse is criminal, ask all of the people with convictions who are mentally ill.


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## dubsey

Chuck71 said:


> "My weight is NOT your problem"
> "I see things otherwise"
> "You done yet?"



Also, "I'm sorry you feel that way." is a good catch all.


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## father_of_2

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Wow......
> 
> That hair story hits home. That’s why two of my family members were raised by our grandmother. Of course there was more, but the catalyst was a very similar hair incident.
> 
> *Nicer man than me.* I wouldn’t summarize anything for someone passing judgment, while not having time to read to see if their statement is warranted.
> 
> Oh and abuse is criminal, ask all of the people with convictions who are mentally ill.


I think that's what got me into this situation...


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## lucy999

Like I said, this is a whole other level. This is unchartered water for both of you because you're sticking to your guns this time.

She will go through every emotion. She will twist and turn on a dime to see what sticks. Surprise! Nothing will. Steer the course. You are doing great.


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## In Absentia

father_of_2 said:


> [MENTION=43957]
> I agree that her mental illness is not her fault and I've done everything I can think of to be supportive and help her manage it. But it's not enough because she doesn't believe anything is wrong and sees my attempts to help as malicious. But not taking her meds, not going to her therapy and psychiatrist appointments, raging through the house and being abusive certainly is her fault and I am not going to subject myself or my kids to it any longer than absolutely necessary.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Fair enough... I understand... my wife doesn't want to fix herself either. But at least she behaves completely the opposite. It's very hard when you run out of options...


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## Thor

Document in a diary everything she does. That whole story about pulling hair, berating a daughter for misplacing the barrette, etc is the kind of thing which will be important to have documented when it comes to custody! You might not realize it, being the boiled frog, but that entire event was quite abusive to the kids. Have a hidden diary she cannot find (locked in a safe maybe) where you write all these things down. Having a contemporaneous record is important.


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## father_of_2

lucy999 said:


> Like I said, this is a whole other level. This is unchartered water for both of you because you're sticking to your guns this time.
> 
> She will go through every emotion. *She will twist and turn on a dime to see what sticks.* Surprise! Nothing will. Steer the course. You are doing great.


As evidenced by the text I got about an hour ago - "I really am sorry I hurt you. I will not do it again and I was wrong."

I haven't and won't respond. There's no point. Seriously - hurt me? She's done much more than that.


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## Openminded

Mental illness is not an excuse. Obviously.


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## aquarius1

again I say. It is NOT the fault of the person who has mental illness.

It IS however, our RESPONSIBILITY to do everything in our power to pursue wellness, even if it takes YEARS.


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## lucy999

father_of_2 said:


> As evidenced by the text I got about an hour ago - "I really am sorry I hurt you. I will not do it again and I was wrong."
> *
> I haven't and won't respond.* There's no point. Seriously - hurt me? She's done much more than that.


Good. Continue to keep your head on a swivel.


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## nekonamida

Please tell your lawyer about the hair pulling incident. Each and every situation like this needs to be documented for court. This can and will escalate over time. No matter what happens with divorce and custody, even if you played nice and stayed with her, she will get more physical next time. Because to her, your daughter is wrong, she's right, and she's already greatly minimized your daughter's pain and further drove that point home by apologizing to you and not her like it's nothing worth feeling sorry for.


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## Cynthia

I see others are thinking the same way about the hair pulling incident. I came into the thread to post the same thing. Purposefully pulling a child's hair is abuse, plain and simple. There is some tugging involved, but any normal parent will be careful to not pull. Your daughter's perception of the incident was that her mother was purposefully pulling her hair to hurt her. Think about that for a moment. This was not some sort of overt disciplinary action where the mother tells the child that what they did was wrong and there will be a consequence. The mother was taking her anger out on her daughter. That's abuse. Taking out one's anger on a child is abuse. Furthermore, her anger over the incident was ridiculous and shows a lack of self control on the part of your wife.

You are responsible for shielding your child from abuse, even when it from her mother. Talk to your attorney and find out what you can do to protect your child.


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## father_of_2

Thanks, @Cynthia and @nekonamida, I have relayed the story to my attorney through an email. I have audio of it and told him I'd be happy to transcribe it and share the audio if it's ever necessary.

Re-reading that story and modifying it with actual names for my attorney made me thing of other ways my W ridicules DD8 - She frequently ridicules her for her hair when DD8 does it herself ("your hair looks terrible! I will redo it") and even for how well DD8 brushes her teeth, telling her that they're yellow and look disgusting and W will re-brush them.

Just venting here... 

We are ruled by her anxiety as well. I work from home so I am here when DD8 gets off school. She could very easily take the bus home from school and walk to our house - I could even stand outside and wait for her. But my W had a bad experience riding the bus when she was in Kindergarten and religiously watches Dateline/20-20/etc., so DD8 is not allowed to ride the bus. I have to go pick her up and I'm often taking meetings in the car while sitting in the car line. I took the bus for my entire school career - I am no worse for wear.

DD8 is not able to play with her friends very often either - even ones who live on the street, just 4 houses down from us and are in her class, because my W is afraid she'll be kidnapped off the street. We live in a gated community on a street with a cul-de-sac. There have been incidents when her friends have come knock on the door and my W won't let DD open the door to even say hi!

Reason #501 to end this marriage...


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## 3Xnocharm

@father_of_2, how are things going?


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## father_of_2

I'm struggling with everything right now. 

I am falling so far behind at work because my mind is so preoccupied thinking about all that I've been through in the past year.

- having to deal with her depression for 6 or 7 months, with her refusing to get out of bed for most of that time and the emotional, physical and financial implications of it. All the accusations of "staring at all the women in Disneyland", of wanting to leave her and the kids, of saying things I never said

- her ramp into mania, with being accused of being addicted to porn and spending all of our money on it, of having secret credit cards, of having an affair, and worst of all - being accused of abusing my daughters

- the continuation of the manic episode over the course of 3 months, with numerous belligerent outbursts full of the worst verbal abuse she has ever thrown at me

- her striking me on Xmas Eve

- her becoming belligerent towards my oldest daughter

But now over the last 3 or 4 days, perhaps matching all of your predictions about love bombing, she seems to be stabilizing. She's back to acting as she has when I've loved her the most - kind, calm, touching the back of my neck while I'm driving us all to dinner, telling me I'm handsome, giving me words of encouragement about work, even helping put the girls to bed at night. Is it all an act? Or is she really stabilizing, and how long will it last? Surely, there will be another series of manic/depressive episodes at some point in the future.

I have to go out of town the first week of Feb for work, which is worrisome, but her parents will help. I told the lawyer that I don't want her served until I get back, even if I finally file this week.

I know I need to follow through, but I feel like a hypocrite to file now that she's stabilizing. Like I'm the a*****e now.

My best friend (the one who is the subject of some of her delusions) came down from the frozen north to go to the concert with me this week. He stayed with my parents for one night. I couldn't bring him in to my own house too see my youngest (his goddaughter) because of my wife's delusions.

We went to Austin for the night, got a few drinks, I told him everything that is going on (he agrees it's time for the nuclear option), and we went to the concert (it was awesome!!). Had a really great time, and was able to get away from my wife for a night. I really appreciated the night away and the good company of one of my oldest friends.

I have more paperwork I have to fill out for the lawyer before he'll file. But I also have a ton of work I have to get caught up on and I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. My IC says I'm depressed - probably true. I have an appointment with a psychiatrist to see about medication for myself but not for 2 more weeks. In the meantime I'm trying to pull myself up but my bootstraps and soldier on.


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## lucy999

It's alot. There's no denying that. Mental illness isn't static. There are peaks and valleys. This life with her is no longer sustainable, especially since there are children involved. She will revert back to her abusive ways. You know this. Mentally ill or no, they are still abusive--bottom line. Your kids shouldn't be subjected to that. And let's say for argument's sake she isn't in fact mentally ill. Because she seems to turn on the charm and straighten up and fly right when she feels you mean business. Doesn't change a damn thing, right? In fact, it makes it more clear what you need to do.

Remind me--does your boss know what's going on? If not, can you tell him/her a cliff's notes version of what's going on? Can you take a short leave of absence with your vacation/sick leave? 

Glad to hear you've got an appt. for a possible med to get through this difficult time. You're being proactive. 

You're not an ******* for filing. You're first and foremost protecting your kids. Do you want them to say that they grew up in an abusive household with a crazy mother? That their dad turned a blind eye? My best friend did. Her mother was mentally ill and a pill addict. Her father enabled it. My friend is 45 and should be in therapy because of her father's inaction. She is in a dysfunctional marriage herself with an alcoholic she refuses to leave. She has 3 daughters. 

Re: serving her while you're away on a business trip. If everything is ready to go why not? I think that's a good time to do it. You will be away and her parents will be there to help.

You're doing fine. Take it day by day.


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## aquarius1

Do you have an EAP at work? In times like these it's best to have a sit down with your boss and possibly HR. 
I agree, a doctor approved leave of absence/Short term disability may be required to get you back on track.
Stop thinking "soldiering on" in the only option. Help yourself so that you can help your kids. 
The old "put your own oxygen mask on first" thing they tell you on an airplane.


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## 3Xnocharm

No you would not be the ass for filing, not even close. You have to know that the craziness will be back, and probably soon. I agree with you to not have her served until you are back, you don’t want your children to be subjected to however she reacts without you there. I’m glad you got a chance to get out and have a fun night away from her. 




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## pastasauce79

The problem with bipolar disorder is you won't know what's going to trigger the next manic or depressive episode. You can have an idea, but you won't know for sure. 

You can't walk on eggshells your whole life. Your daughters need stability. 

It's hard to walk away from someone you love but you and your daughters come first.

My husband's cousin had a bipolar schizophrenic mom. It's a miracle she's ok now. She got away from her mom and worked really hard to have a normal life. It was the best thing she did for herself. She's got a stable job and a stable life now. 

Even if divorce papers trigger another manic episode in your wife, I think it's the best thing you can do for yourself and your daughters.


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## Openminded

Don’t wait to file until the next time she destabilizes and then you have to repeat all you’ve gone through. Because you know there’ll be a next time and one after that and one after that — forever. That’s your life if you don’t make a change.


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## Chuck71

There's really never a "good" time to file for D. Your W will be around your kids eventually no matter how

you spell this out. You're gun shy in filing and that's 110% normal. Her mood swings will change if you

file or not. You've witnessed this yourself for years. Try to have your family at stand by to help be

go-betweens. Maybe even tell the W you will stop the D motions if she seeks help.

You're either going to file for D and face the shatstorm or not file and still face continual shatstorms 

to come.


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## Cynthia

Do not feel guilty for filing. Your wife has deserted your marriage and family by not acknowledging and working through her mental illness. This is causing pain and trauma to you and your children. She is unrepentant abusive physically, emotionally, and mentally to you and the children. This goes in cycles. You are in a calm portion of the cycle right now. Rejoice for the reprieve, but do not be deceived, nothing has been solved. She still isn't acknowledging the abuse or doing anything to resolve it. 

If your wife truly repents in the future, you still have the option to remarry if she also wants to at that time, but in order to be safe, she would have to show a clear and long-term commitment to her health and to the health of you and the children in order for that to be successful.


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## aquarius1

Thats exactly why it’s called BI POLAR disorder.

Because they cycle between the poles of depression/euthymic/manic

Some are rapid cyclers, with hours or days between states.

Others take longer, but eventually make the journey.

Without a mood stabilizer on board she will cycle again.

Dont be fooled or complacent. Follow your plan to free yourself and your children from this nightmare.


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## BluesPower

OP, for the life of me, I cannot understand why you refuse to take the advice that so many people are giving you. 

These are people that have lived some of this, and made it out the other side, alive I might add. 

You are wasting your life, your weakness, your indecision, you denial, your hopium, all of it do you and your kids a disservice... 

I hope against hope that you wakeup soon and file for divorce...


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## father_of_2

Yes, I know all this. Seriously, I've never been so weak or indecisive in my life.

W stayed home sick from work today so I wasnt able to get anything done re: divorce... 

I'm getting there.


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## BluesPower

father_of_2 said:


> Yes, I know all this. Seriously, I've never been so weak or indecisive in my life.
> 
> W stayed home sick from work today so I wasnt able to get anything done re: divorce...
> 
> I'm getting there.


Listen dude, you have to get out of this marriage and then you need some type of therapy, long and deep therapy to figure out what in the **** is wrong with you. 

To figure out what made you stay in this **** hole of a marriage. 

I also think you are lying. You have been this indecisive in your life. If you think hard enough and you will be able to admit the truth to yourself. 

GET OUT, for God's sake GET OUT... Quit making excuses.


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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> Yes, I know all this. Seriously, I've never been so weak or indecisive in my life.
> 
> W stayed home sick from work today so I wasnt able to get anything done re: divorce...
> 
> I'm getting there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is a period of indecisiveness everyone faces at one time or another while staring down a D.

It is so complacent to just try and ride it out. But when you are so damaged from the abuse over 

the years, you have lost who you are. Many people stay, even though they know it will be a living hell.

But at least it is a hell "they know." The last thing they want to do is chart undiscovered land and

the fact IT just might be a "hell they do not know." Completely normal.

But you will survive this.....and thrive beyond your imagination. Yo Chucks hows yousa knows?

Because I was there......I tried everything to save our M. But there was a point I got tired

of being the only one trying. I pulled away..... took two weeks away from her to realize, I did not want 

to go back to that. I left her one non-negotiable during the D, a way for her to possibly try and start saving it.

It went unanswered. I placed her in a situation to show her hand, she showed it.

That was it for me, never looked back. This was seven years ago this month. I can't express how much

happier I have been since that occurred. Two books I want to recommend........

"Awareness" by DeMello (on PdF) and "Abolition of Man" by CS Lewis. (also PdF)

Abolition is what led me to the Tao. I had read it before and thought I had grasp it completely.

Well I was close but not completely. That read.... made me realize, my once W didn't have a snowball's

chance in hell of ever having me in her life again.


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## DTO

Time to bail. When she's refusing to get help for her issue, she's saying that you and the kids matter less than she does.

At that point you need to protect yourself and your daughters. Right now she has documented emotional / mental issues. Get it handled.


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## father_of_2

Thought I'd give you all an update.

I'll probably get crucified for this by some of you, but I haven't left her. I haven't filed for divorce. I have moved back to the bedroom.

The reason for this is that I no longer feel physically unsafe. Things have swung 180 degrees getting where they were in the fall. My wife has now gone into another period of high anxiety and depression. She's called in sick 15+ days already since Xmas break, including the entirety of the last two weeks. Her mood is very low.

I would look like a complete a****** if I left now or if I kicked her out.

There is a silver lining, however. She's become much more aware of her illness and willing to listen to me and others. I believe this is because when she's manic she thinks everything is amazing with her mood and health but when she's depressed she can recognize something is wrong.

So, I have been comfortable enough to have a very frank discussion with her about her unacceptable behavior from October through early January. I told her that our marriage will not survive another episode and that I will not tolerate that behavior from her ever again. She has (outwardly) accepted what I've said and has been very apologetic and loving.

This has led to her agreeing to go back to the psychiatrist this week, even though she'd just gone 2 weeks ago, and allowing me to go and discuss everything with the psychiatrist.

He gave her an OFFICIAL diagnosis of bipolar.

So, I'm hopeful for her to actually recover and get moving on the right track.

But for my part, I still feel very resentful. I haven't responded to any sexual advances or reciprocated the touchy feely behavior she's shown towards me. I'm just not ready for that.

If I'm being honest with myself, we will probably still end up splitting up because I don't trust that the more contrite, calm, and rational version of my wife will stick around. I will stick to my guns next time she has an outburst. I will not sweep anything under the rug this time.

So, we will see what happens...


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## PieceOfSky

Did her psychiatrist prescribe a treatment?


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## Chuck71

father_of_2 said:


> Thought I'd give you all an update.
> 
> I'll probably get crucified for this by some of you, but I haven't left her. I haven't filed for divorce. I have moved back to the bedroom.
> 
> The reason for this is that I no longer feel physically unsafe. Things have swung 180 degrees getting where they were in the fall. My wife has now gone into another period of high anxiety and depression. She's called in sick 15+ days already since Xmas break, including the entirety of the last two weeks. Her mood is very low.
> 
> I would look like a complete a****** if I left now or if I kicked her out.
> 
> There is a silver lining, however. She's become much more aware of her illness and willing to listen to me and others. I believe this is because when she's manic she thinks everything is amazing with her mood and health but when she's depressed she can recognize something is wrong.
> 
> So, I have been comfortable enough to have a very frank discussion with her about her unacceptable behavior from October through early January. I told her that our marriage will not survive another episode and that I will not tolerate that behavior from her ever again. She has (outwardly) accepted what I've said and has been very apologetic and loving.
> 
> This has led to her agreeing to go back to the psychiatrist this week, even though she'd just gone 2 weeks ago, and allowing me to go and discuss everything with the psychiatrist.
> 
> He gave her an OFFICIAL diagnosis of bipolar.
> 
> So, I'm hopeful for her to actually recover and get moving on the right track.
> 
> But for my part, I still feel very resentful. I haven't responded to any sexual advances or reciprocated the touchy feely behavior she's shown towards me. I'm just not ready for that.
> 
> If I'm being honest with myself, we will probably still end up splitting up because I don't trust that the more contrite, calm, and rational version of my wife will stick around. I will stick to my guns next time she has an outburst. I will not sweep anything under the rug this time.
> 
> So, we will see what happens...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She's a really good fisherwoman! Reeled you in......again. You enjoy dancing with the Devil don't you?


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## 3Xnocharm

It sounds like you are being very realistic and smart about all of this. I have a feeling her current state will not last. 



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## Cynthia

@father_of_2, Thanks for the update. I'm sure it's hard to come back and face the group when you haven't left the situation, but you can still get support here whatever you decide. It's your life. Some of us may or may not agree with your decisions, but again, it's your life and you are the one who has to live it.

At least at this point, while she is more receptive and cooperative, you are using the opportunity to get a diagnosis and being proactive to have her admit to her dysfunction. That should be helpful for you in the future when she likely reverts to her former dysfunction, since it is a cycle and you obviously recognize where she is at in the cycle.

It was smart to go to her psychiatrist appointment with her to make sure the truth is spoken and that she got an actual, professional diagnosis. That's a good step in the right direction.

So, despite staying in an unhealthy situation and moving back into the bedroom with her, you have made some progress in other areas. I hope she doesn't stab you in your sleep when she gets into the next cycle. Please, please be careful.


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## father_of_2

PieceOfSky said:


> Did her psychiatrist prescribe a treatment?




Yes, she is seeing a new psychiatrist now as the old one moved. The new one diagnosed bipolar, took her off SSRI antidepressants, increased her dosage of Lamictal, and put her back on Abilify and Klonopin at a higher dosage, which she had somehow convinced her previous psychiatrist to take her off of. 

My paralysis in December/January has basically put me in a position where I don't know if I can still get full custody of the kids. I haven't discussed it with my lawyer but he has said previously that, even with mental illness in the mix, judges are going to err on the side of kids spending time with both parents, so a clear and present risk to their physical or mental safety has to be in play. Right now, I don't think that's the case. When she's manic, it clearly is.

Interesting twist this afternoon - my FIL came to pick up the kids and take them out for the day. He told me he has recently been diagnosed bipolar as well. We all knew of his mood swings - it makes sense. But his is not as severe as my wife's.

My biggest worries right now are not physical danger but how her staying home from work and laying in bed 18 hrs a day is affecting my girls - what is it teaching them? My 8 year old has been quite moody and distracted lately - is that just being an 8 year old or is it a result of my wife really not being present for her? My 2 year old has been crying a lot lately. Again, is that because she's 2 and 2 year olds can be a pain in the butt or is it as a result of my wife not being present?

And then there's the financial implications if my wife quits yet another job.

The instability makes me very resentful of her. And again I'm left holding the bag. But I don't see an exit right now...


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## Adelais

I would suggest you have a family meeting with your wife present and explain that mommy has an illness that affects how she thinks and how she acts sometimes. Then you could ask your daughter what types of things she has noticed, and you could confirm whether or not those things may be due to her illness. You can explain that sleeping a lot is part of her mom's illness.

You might even mention that Granddaddy also has it, and that sometimes it runs in the family. Your children may have inherited it, and if they know what to look for when they are older, they might get the help they need sooner, and not make those around them miserable.


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## Cynthia

father_of_2 said:


> The instability makes me very resentful of her. And again I'm left holding the bag. But I don't see an exit right now...


Move out of the bedroom.
Wait for her to hit you again, because she will.
Call 911.
Have her hauled away.
Get a restraining order.

Hopefully this won't happen again, but the best way to determine the future is to consider history.


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## Djani1979

Does anybody know if his wife killed him? If he stayed with her there is a good chance that he didnt wake up one morning.... So sad...


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