# Are Men as Thick as They Seem?



## AlphaMale74 (Oct 15, 2014)

http://www.net-burst.net/help/needs.htm


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

I got as far as the first sentence:


> Some wives have the* perfectly understandable* tendency to let hurts and problems fester until finally blurting them out at an emotional time when the pressure becomes too great to keep the problem suppressed any longer.


It's not "perfectly understandable". It's sh!t communication skills.


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## BrutalHonesty (Apr 5, 2015)

In other words, are can some women be this childish? Like having successive tantrums can actually make an effect on an adult other than be ignored. I would never be with a woman that acted this way. 

The main issue is that many men in this generation let women get away with this kind of crap. 

Me? I hold women to the standard of adults. Capable of communicating like grow-ups without making scenes, and able to show understanding of another's position. 

I don't know how those other guys go through life like that. They must be utterly miserable.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

Also:



> For instance, a woman might get somewhat abusive during such a time, or do other hurtful, out-of-character things. *The husband must learn not to take these hurtful words or actions too seriously.*


Or the wife must learn some self-control and not say them in the first place. Putting up with outbursts like that simply tells the woman that it is ok to have them.

The author hit it on the head with this one though:



> They might think men are thick, but maybe if women were as skilled and perceptive as they imagine, they would realize when they are failing to communicate and find solutions.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

The article is putting the responsibility for the marriage on the woman.


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## Gonecrazy (Oct 12, 2014)

Hi Mate, 
All I read here is about the difference in communication styles and thought processes between women and men. My wife would simply say, "I don't know about that combo", to which I would just grab another shirt. Man and woman can communicate using English. Some just chose not to listen.

Gonecrazy


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> Suppose Carol is highly embarrassed whenever Bob, her husband, wears colors that clash. Whenever she mentions this to him, Bob just looks blankly and continues wearing offensive combinations.


This sounds to me like a case of passive aggression.



> Imagine the confusion if Carol were unaware that Bob had never in his life been able to see color and, like Carol, he was barely aware that the way he sees the world is vastly different from the way Carol sees it.


I find it incredible that someone could reach adulthood and still not know that they are color blind.....

and so it is, I can't take something seriously when the author uses weak / unrealistic examples to make a point.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The article stated that the wife had thought she had clearly communicated with her husband. Her eruptions appear to be brought on by her husband's seemingly dismissive attitude toward her concerns and the unwanted behavior continued.

This is an example of wives believing that they have fully and repeatedly communicated their concerns and their husbands have repeatedly shined them on until divorce papers are served and husbands are declaring themselves blindsided.

Temper tantrums are not an effective communication tool but they apparently get more attention than civil conversations. And, what do the wives have to lose? They've tried every other technique in their state issued husband manual. Besides, talking 'til one is blue in the face just gets so tiring.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

There you go. The problem with 90+ percent of marriages. 


"the wife feels sure she has accurately communicated her concerns, whereas she has actually left her husband with no idea of how significant the matter is to her. What to him initially seemed to have all the appearance of a crisis apparently evaporates when his wife is in a better mood."


It stops being funny when the wife walks though.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Both men and women need to learn their spouse. Real communication takes effort and growth in marriage.

Many, regardless of gender, are unwilling to "learn" their partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Sorry. I didn't answer the question: Yes, we are that thick.

I lived with my wife for AT LEAST 5 years after she checked out and had NO CLUE.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Wurds rrr two beeg!!! Duuuuuhhhh......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

jld said:


> The article is putting the responsibility for the marriage on the woman.


No! Who could possibly hold a woman responsible? It's crazy! Obviously every marriage that fails, every woman that cheats, is strictly the responsibility of the man in the relationship. How could it be otherwise?










It's almost like some people live in an alternate reality, as if they think women are intelligent and emotionally mature enough to make their own decisions and act on them rather than just reacting to what the men in their lives do. It's crazy town! 
:slap:

/sarc :banghead:


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> The article stated that the wife had thought she had clearly communicated with her husband. Her eruptions appear to be brought on by her husband's seemingly dismissive attitude toward her concerns and the unwanted behavior continued.
> 
> This is an example of wives believing that they have fully and repeatedly communicated their concerns and their husbands have repeatedly shined them on until divorce papers are served and husbands are declaring themselves blindsided.
> 
> *Temper tantrums are not an effective communication tool *but *they apparently get more attention than civil conversations.* And, *what do the wives have to lose?* They've tried every other technique in their state issued husband manual. Besides, talking 'til one is blue in the face just gets so tiring.




Temper tantrums do get more attention. They are successfully used in abusive relationships and can escalate over time to murder. Beatings are common. 

They feel safe because the consequences are skewed to believing a man can and should take being emotionally, verbally, and physically abused. Few really believe a man can be abused and so find reasons that he asked for it. 

It's no different than denying a woman the beliefs that her word is true when she says a man abused her. The basic difference is in the fact that men don't reveal their feelings as readily in situations less extreme and they are physically larger than their partner in most relationships. 

Those differences are at the core of poor communication. Neither has the ability to communicate effectively with the opposite sex. Individuals do, whether male or female.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> No! Who could possibly hold a woman responsible? It's crazy! Obviously every marriage that fails, every woman that cheats, is strictly the responsibility of the man in the relationship. How could it be otherwise?
> 
> It's almost like some people live in an alternate reality, as if they think women are intelligent and emotionally mature enough to make their own decisions and act on them rather than just reacting to what the men in their lives do. It's crazy town!
> :slap:
> ...


It did not even seem to put it on both of them. It was all on her.

If the woman is okay with carrying the marriage, then it's fine. But if not . . . Then a man who wants to keep his wife may want to look at what _he_ can do to foster better communication--like learning about active listening.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Temper tantrums are not an effective communication tool but they apparently get more attention than civil conversations. *And, what do the wives have to lose?*


Their dignity?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

azteca1986 said:


> Their dignity?


They might feel like they are starving for love. They might be willing to give up their pride to try anything they think might get them that love.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Are men as thick as they seem?*

Yes. Most are. Some are not. But most are. However...only when it comes to identifying, interpreting, communicating and responding to feelings. 

Other than that, men are supercalifragilisticexpialidociously awesome!


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

jld said:


> *They might feel like they are starving for love. *They might be willing to give up their pride to try anything they think might get them that love.


I don't know how you got this from the article. It could be that. It could be a thousand other things. I just don't think borrowing the communication techniques of a two year-old is an effective way of enlightening a husband.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

azteca1986 said:


> I don't know how you got this from the article. It could be that. It could be a thousand other things. I just don't think borrowing the communication techniques of a two year-old is an effective way of enlightening a husband.


My husband says it is the only sure way of getting his attention. I have a soft voice and a gentle manner, and that does not seem to get through to him.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> They might feel like they are starving for love. They might be willing to give up their pride to try anything they think might get them that love.


Love is charity. It's the only way we can understand that someone loves us. 

Infants do not have the capacity for love. They are self-centered by design. They are incapable of doing anything charitable. Parents love them by feeding and caring for them. Parent's love is not reciprocated. It is possible to say we can love with it not being reciprocated.

Unfortunately, marital vows do not require reciprocity of love. They specifically speak of loving without it being returned. Therefore, the person who finds themselves searching for love with another before divorcing/annulling the present marriage do not love their spouse. They are not being charitable. They are incapable of saying yes or "I do" to those vows and meaning it. It would be more charitable(loving) to release them of their vows.

Do you remember my posts about changing the vows of a marriage and making them more like a contract that is signed? This is why I posted that way. It was a realisation that each of us has a different and personal definition and they are valid to both spouses and must be determined and agreed upon before the marriage. They must also have consequences spelled out in reasonable detail so as to mirror our strong beliefs. 

If you want to cheat on your husband, jld, and he is okay with that under certain circumstances as you describe here, that's between the two of you. For those of us who value our word and profession of those vows with a greater understanding of the depth of their meaning, it seems important that we pair with others of like mind to control damage. However, that does tend to eliminate revenge, which may make it unpalatable for many who choose to be unfaithful and then proclaim the benefits and maturity of reconciliation. 

Doing so will eliminate the need for all of these discussions and debates. It will allow quicker healing and determination of responsibility in the dissolution of the marriage and provide for fair consequences that are up front and known. Courts will be less bogged down with "feelings". Those can be dealt with in counseling as they should be.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

What do you mean, my cheating on my spouse and his being okay with it?

I have not cheated on him, nor do I plan to. And he would most certainly not be okay with it.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I never had tantrums--and shame on the men who put up with those, and the women who use them to get what they want (never met these folks, but hey, I cannot prove they don't exist). 

When I left my ex, he admitted I had communicated the things that bothered me. But his defense? "I didn't know it was important because you didn't scream and cry." 

So, if you scream and cry, you are at fault for failing to communicate properly. If you don't scream and cry, you are at fault for failing to communicate properly.

I tend to think the problem is that some people just don't want to listen to what they hear. And I would guess that this works both ways (women who don't listen to their men, as well as men who don't listen to their partner).


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Somobody forgot to tell my husband that tantrum are for women only. Damn it would save me twenty years of misery


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

According to the article, women can get very emotional, and scream out about what is bothering them, and men will not see that the issue is very important to her.

Or, she can calmly and rationally explain the issue over and over again, and the man will still not be able to "read her mind."

So, from all of this, I would conclude that men are actually much thicker than they appear. My default expectation would be that they can actually listen and understand. I'm surprised to read that this is not the case.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> What do you mean, my cheating on my spouse and his being okay with it?
> 
> I have not cheated on him, nor do I plan to. And he would most certainly not be okay with it.


I did not accuse you of cheating on him. Neither do I have any proof of your subsequent statements. What I do have is your opinion that it is okay to cheat when you don't feel loved. That, in and of itself, tells me what you believe and that you would likely choose that consequence if he does not show you love in a manner you recognise as being loving. Some folks separate or divorce. There are choices.



jld said:


> They might feel like they are starving for love. They might be willing to give up their pride to try anything they think might get them that love.


Do you believe you have choices, but do not allow for others to have them?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I did not accuse you of cheating on him. Neither do I have any proof of your subsequent statements. What I do have is your opinion that it is okay to cheat when you don't feel loved. That, in and of itself, tells me what you believe and that you would likely choose that consequence if he does not show you love in a manner you recognise as being loving. Some folks separate or divorce. There are choices.
> 
> Not sure where you are getting this. Saying what may happen if a woman does not feel loved is not the same as saying it is okay. And the article is not even about cheating.
> 
> Do you believe you have choices, but do not allow for others to have them?


Not sure what this means, either, nor what it has to do with the article.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

jld said:


> My husband says it is the only sure way of getting his attention. I have a soft voice and a gentle manner, and that does not seem to get through to him.


Do you also roll around on the floor?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Azteca.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> Not sure what this means, either, nor what it has to do with the article.


You are correct. I apologise for getting confused. However, I stand by my post. I just wish it had been in another thread. The thread I confused this with would have been quite appropriate. 

Again, I am sorry for my mistake.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

always_alone said:


> According to the article, women can get very emotional, and scream out about what is bothering them, and men will not see that the issue is very important to her.
> 
> *Or, she can calmly and rationally explain the issue over and over again, and the man will still not be able to "read her mind."*
> 
> So, from all of this, I would conclude that men are actually much thicker than they appear.


It doesn't say that at all.



> They might think men are thick, but maybe if women were as skilled and perceptive as they imagine, they would realize when they are failing to communicate and find solutions.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Personally, I love it when I hear a woman say to me, in a sultry voice: "oh baby, you're soooo thick..."


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)




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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

azteca1986 said:


> It doesn't say that at all.


Yes it does:



> The solution is for a wife to wait until she is in an obviously good mood, ensure she has her husband’s full attention, and then lovingly but carefully explain how significant this matter is to her. This approach is likely to have more impact than a dozen temper tantrums. *It may still, however, take several attempts on the wife’s behalf* for the husband to grasp the importance of the matter. Despite what many women seem to assume,* husbands do not have the magical ability to climb inside a wife’s mind. *


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

I as a woman take offense to this article. Yeah, we've all heard men are from Mars and women are from Venus. We are inherently different and our communication styles are different. We can't blame men for being thick headed since I know personally women who can be classified as that also. When having a conversation with someone, we have to constantly reiterate our own understanding of what is being said because we process information from our own experience filter. For communication to be effective, the message expressed has to be understood by both parties. To say grown women have to have a tantrum to get their husband's attention is ridiculous!


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> The article stated that the wife had thought she had clearly communicated with her husband. Her eruptions appear to be brought on by her husband's seemingly dismissive attitude toward her concerns and the unwanted behavior continued.
> 
> This is an example of wives believing that they have fully and repeatedly communicated their concerns and their husbands have repeatedly shined them on until divorce papers are served and husbands are declaring themselves blindsided.
> 
> Temper tantrums are not an effective communication tool but they apparently get more attention than civil conversations. And, what do the wives have to lose? They've tried every other technique in their state issued husband manual. Besides, talking 'til one is blue in the face just gets so tiring.


This would be what Michele Weiner Davis talks about, re: Walk-Away Wives, where she says "I tried everything I know to get through to him" when it would be more accurate to say that she tried the same thing over and over again, to predictable conclusion.

I say that not to excuse the husband from striving to be a better spouse (or the wife for that matter).


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

maritalloneliness said:


> I as a woman take offense to this article. Yeah, we've all heard men are from Mars and women are from Venus. We are inherently different and our communication styles are different. We can't blame men for being thick headed since I know personally women who can be classified as that also. When having a conversation with someone, we have to constantly reiterate our own understanding of what is being said because we process information from our own experience filter. For communication to be effective, the message expressed has to be understood by both parties. To say grown women have to have a tantrum to get their husband's attention is ridiculous!


:iagree: X 10^6


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

always_alone said:


> Yes it does:


And concludes with the bit I quoted. Repeating the same message over and over again is not communicating.

In my business we can't blame consumers if they don't understand our ads. The onus is on the party that is under the impression they are communicating to get their message across.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, that mentality risks creating a walk away wife.

It would probably work out better if each partner made efforts to understand the other.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Both men and women need to learn their spouse. Real communication takes effort and growth in marriage.
> 
> Many, regardless of gender, are *unwilling* to "learn" their partner.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This. How many times do spouses 'hear' the other but decide to say whatever it takes to appease and then go on their merry way and do whatever they want thinking 'they'll get over it'.

Claiming the spouse doesn't communicate well enough can be a smokescreen for 'I didn't like what was being said so I'm going to ignore it'. Selfish.

People seem to think that wives who throw temper tantrums do so deliberately. Some may, but in most cases it would be more accurate to call the behavior a melt-down. In the article, the wife apologized for her behavior. She was embarrassed.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Nucking Futs said:


>


:rofl:


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Poor Melvin. Another victim of poor communication. Obviously his psychiatrist did not clearly communicate that Melvin needed appointments more frequently than every two years. Good thing that Melvin has a firm grasp on reason and accountability.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

It's not fair to assume that b/c someone is communicating the same message, they are communicating it in the same way.

I know that I tried a lot of different things--communicating in simple, direct terms what my needs were. Using humor when that didn't work. Putting things in writing. Using analogies. Making comparisons to his needs v. mine--and I was also listening and meeting his needs (according to him). 

At some point, one concludes that the other does not care enough to make an effort. I am quite certain neither sex has a monopoly on selfishness. But to say women aren't communicating effectively is just throwing blame around. A lot of women--and men--communicate effectively. They cannot force their partner to care about what is communicated.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Unfortunately, marital vows do not require reciprocity of love. They specifically speak of loving without it being returned.


I disagree with this. With marriage vows, both people make the same promise to the other (usually). The marital vows do clearly state that each spouse will give to the other. So each spouse can assume reciprocity of love.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that the article makes gross generalizations and a lot of assumptions that are most often not even true.



> *The solution is for a wife to wait until she is in an obviously good mood, ensure she has her husband’s full attention, and then lovingly but carefully explain how significant this matter is to her. This approach is likely to have more impact than a dozen temper tantrums. *It may still, however, take several attempts on the wife’s behalf for the husband to grasp the importance of the matter. Despite what many women seem to assume, husbands do not have the magical ability to climb inside a wife’s mind. They might think men are thick, but maybe if women were as skilled and perceptive as they imagine, they would realize when they are failing to communicate and find solutions.


My bet is that if you ask most women whose husbands ignore their needs, they will tell you that they did exactly that for a long time. It was only after probably years of attempts to communicate in a civil and clear manner that she gives up. Sure, some women get to the yelling stage. Some don't. To assume that most women do it ridiculous and condescending to women.

How about this.

If either spouse has something significant to tell the other, then that spouse waits until they are in an obviously good mood, ensure they have their spouse's full attention, and then lovingly but carefully explain how significant this matter is to them.

Then the other spouse actually pays attention, does not get defensive, does not shut the other out.

Communication in marriage is a two way street. Both spouses will play one or the other role in the scenario at times in the marriage. Both need to treat each other with respect, hear what the other is saying and act on it.


I really dislike the article.
.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> I never had tantrums--and shame on the men who put up with those, and the women who use them to get what they want (never met these folks, but hey, I cannot prove they don't exist).
> 
> When I left my ex, he admitted I had communicated the things that bothered me. But his defense? "I didn't know it was important because you didn't scream and cry."
> 
> ...


Based on the article, the author seems to think that this is something that most women do. After all it they did not think it was wide spread then why write an article about it.

Like you, I do not do temper tantrums. What's the point? 

But in my marriage to my son's father... it was he who constantly had temper tantrums. He would not, could not, formulate his thoughts and bring them up in civil discussion.


.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

sisters359 said:


> A lot of women--and men--communicate effectively. They cannot force their partner to care about what is communicated.


True, but also consider that if one person doesn't place the same importance on what the other is communicating as they do, the first person is not automatically "wrong".

I think it's a great article, it has obviously managed to piss off men and women pretty equally .


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## Eyvonne (Mar 23, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I think that the article makes gross generalizations and a lot of assumptions that are most often not even true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really disliked the article too, but I figure the aurthor was just trying to "dumb-it-down" a little....you know, for the guys...
Evie


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Yeah... my husband, when he does not like my answer to something, keeps asking the same question, and "why", pushing (or bullying) me to change my mind, giving me all kinds of reasons why my position is not "right" and his good> I will keep saying "no", "I don't want to beacause...". 

After ten minutes I would finally yell "NO! How many more times do I need to say it?

Would that be a tantrum? Or should I stay calm and loving, and patient as with a two year old who cannot grasp the concept of the word "no?"


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

That's the thing, Wanda. Different people have different definitions. They judge according to what they project, not according to what may have been the facts of the situation.

And they do not know what they themselves may have done in the same situation.


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