# How not to take it personal



## Kvboo (Feb 12, 2013)

Those with a withholding sex partner how do you not take it personal when your advances or sexual comments about wanting some are turned down?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

If you want to grow the understanding and intimacy between you and your spouse it's okay to feel rejected. But it's not okay to react with anger or distance due to the rejection. This is where most people make most of their mistakes.

Spouse turns you down, how you respond to that is more important than either of you fully understand.

"I understand sex isn't in the cards tonight. What do you need instead?" 

If they need space, you need to examine your need for closeness. Are you needy and crowding them?

If they need JUST to be held, you need to examine your nonsexual affection and discover if you are sending a signal that all affection leads to sex.

Reacting with hurt or anger only makes the gulf wider.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

This is a really tough one, and I'm not sure what the right reaction should be.

I can only speak for how I reacted. In my case, my ex was a CSA survivor, so while my initial reaction was puzzlement eventually after being patient for a long time, I did become angry, and confronted her. After realizing how broken she was and still in post traumatic phase (even after years), I gave up. Never asked her for sex again. she never revealed her CSA until I confronted her.

I think maybe it depends on where she's coming from. If it's CSA then I would approach from a point of tenderness and understanding. If it's a physical issue, same. If it's simply low libido, I'm not sure how I would handle that because I never had such a wife or girlfriend. On the other hand if it's just plain old fashioned meanness or obstinance (and I think once it a while it is), then I think anger is justified.

As to how not to take it personally? Maybe impossible, but with my ex, after I realized that it had very little if nothing to do with me, my anger subsided to near zero.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

How often does it happen, and what % of your advances are rebuffed?


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I agree with the above posters. If that does not work, you've worked on yourself, and tried everything (including counseling), then you can assume that it is entirely their attitude or dysfunction, and so does not reflect on you - it isn't personal. Of course, if you reach that point, it's usually better to divorce and move on to a better relationship. (And if it is something about you personally that you can't change - innate personality traits - then you may as well leave.)


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Very hard not to react with frustration or anger. My hubby and I had huge issues with his LD previously, and for the most part reached a happy medium.

I'm ticked with him today though, as I was last night, because I wanted to spend some time together yesterday afternoon, I had some friends over and he went to have a nap. When they left I went upstairs with the intention of snuggling up to him and spending some time together but no, he was just getting up and wasn't interested. 

I asked him again and he went downstairs and said he'd come back up in a minute, which of course he didn't. I waited over half an hour for him to come back up. Do you know how humiliating it is that your husband would rather watch television than spend time with you? Very hard not to take that personally.

He couldn't give me one lousy hour out of the whole weekend? Really??

This is coming on top of a few rejections lately, and I'm over it. It's selfish. I have NEVER ONCE rejected him. Not one single time. Even when I've been exhausted and he wants sex I did it.

Excuse my rant, just having a bad day


----------



## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

If it's a one time thing, understanding. As a man, you should always be outcome i independent. "Oh cool, not feeling it? I'll go for a run!"

Once it becomes a trend it needs to be addressed immediately. Tell the other partner step, or its time for a replacement. .


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kvboo said:


> Those with a withholding sex partner how do you not take it personal when your advances or sexual comments about wanting some are turned down?


How often are the rejections?

100% of the time?

50%

Got to know that really....


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I agree with Elegirl. How you should react is directly related to the frequency of rejection. Once in a while? Shrug it off, give her a backrub and hit the sack. Every time? After you've chased the "why" for a couple of years with no luck, I think a little anger is completely understandable.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Kvboo said:


> Those with a withholding sex partner how do you not take it personal when your advances or sexual comments about wanting some are turned down?



Nope. It's not like if it was Brad Pitt the outcome would be different.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If the withholding is deliberate and sustained over months or years you ought to be pissed. You ought to feel abused because that's exactly what's happening. No one should be happy or content to live in Stalag 19 or have any inclination to cuddle with the camp commandant. If a woman was being punched in the face every day nobody here would be suggesting she learn how to enjoy it or that she conduct a lot of soul searching to figure out why she is making her spouse abuse her. An essentially sexless marriage (when there is no legitimate medical reason for it) is and should be unacceptable unless it's by mutual consent. If that's what you have, you should take it very personally.


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

I have worked this approach out with my LD wife so that she NEVER turns me down but instead she responds "Not right now" and she picks a day/time in the very near future when we will have sex. This accomplishes several important things:
1) her desired outcome (no sex) is similar to a rejection
2) let's me down easy: hearing "Tomorrow" is better than "No"
3) forces her to think about a better time
4) gives me the specific "better time" to look forward to, so I can plan and initiate again at the designated moment


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It is personal in the extreme. There is no other way than to take it personally. I honestly think there ought to be sex education on increasing and controlling your libido. It is totally able to be exercised and developed like any aspect of your body.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ZombieOnViagra (Nov 29, 2014)

I've had some limited success when I have separated myself from my ego. On those times, any resentment that I may be experiencing seems to disappear and I've felt much better. Now if only I could increase my rate of success, I'd be a happy man.


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

At the beginning yes it hurt and yes one feels rejected and rebuffed.

How do you stop being hurt and rejected? Easy peasy...don't make any advances whatsoever. Don't expect anything either.
If she wants a neck/shoulder massage, do it but don't expect anything in return.

Self preservation.


----------



## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

askari said:


> At the beginning yes it hurt and yes one feels rejected and rebuffed.
> 
> How do you stop being hurt and rejected?
> If she wants a neck/shoulder massage, so it but don't expect anything in return.
> ...


I don't even offer. I just pretty much ignore her all together.
Since I feel pretty much like a sugar daddy roommate, that's just what I've been lately. I don't tell her where I'm going, what I'm doing, or invite her along with me when I leave the house. BTW, she loves the m/c, but I rode Saturday. She didn't even know I was going, til our daughter told her I was.
It's really sort of gotten pretty easy to do too.


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Flyer...lots of people on here call that the '180'. I haven't made a conscious decision to do a 180. Like you I just get on with my life. If she goes out I don't ask where she is going or what time she is back. I don't tell her either...which seems to piss her off. But she hasnt got enough brain cells to put two and two together!

It really is as if the lights are on but no one is in. I married her for all the right reasons (at the time). Marriages need to be worked on...compromises need to be made...you have to do things you might not want to do (not necessarily sexual) for either the good of the marriage or for the other person.

Put your hand in the fire and you get burnt....so don't put your hand in the fire. Infact don't even go anywhere near it!


----------



## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

askari said:


> Flyer...lots of people on here call that the '180'. I haven't made a conscious decision to do a 180. Like you I just get on with my life. If she goes out I don't ask where she is going or what time she is back. I don't tell her either...which seems to piss her off. But she hasnt got enough brain cells to put two and two together!
> 
> It really is as if the lights are on but no one is in. I married her for all the right reasons (at the time). Marriages need to be worked on...compromises need to be made...you have to do things you might not want to do (not necessarily sexual) for either the good of the marriage or for the other person.
> 
> Put your hand in the fire and you get burnt....so don't put your hand in the fire. Infact don't even go anywhere near it!




:iagree:100%


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

jorgegene said:


> In my case, my ex was a CSA survivor, so while my initial reaction was puzzlement eventually after being patient for a long time, I did become angry, and confronted her. After realizing how broken she was and still in post traumatic phase (even after years), I gave up. Never asked her for sex again. she never revealed her CSA until I confronted her.
> .
> .
> .
> As to how not to take it personally? Maybe impossible, but with my ex, after I realized that it had very little if nothing to do with me, my anger subsided to near zero.


I am in a very similar situation. Didn't find out though until 29 years into the marriage about her CSA. Now that I know, I try not to take it personally but the cuts run really deep due to not only the rejections (she'd rather watch Saturday morning cartoons that first summer after the wedding than have sex with me). So I still have a visceral emotional response to rejection sometimes.

For me, I knew that she had a full sexual past before me, and then we had a good sex life while dating up until just a few months before the wedding. I chalked it up to a lot of stress leading up to the wedding. So it seemed that she was quite capable and happy to have lots of sex, but then not with me. So I really took it deeply personally at first. Once I figured it wasn't just me, she managed to get pregnant so I stayed for the kids.  

So the context and the history is important on whether one takes it personally. If there is a good reason for the spouse's low drive and/or rejections then it isn't personal. It still is not acceptable but it is on them.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Yes, Thor, your story is similar to mine.

My ex. had the triple whammy of early childhood molestation, a brutal monster of an ex. husband before me, and stuff in between.

She hid this all from me until it was too late. It was only after taking things extremely personally and at first being patient and gentle, but later not accepting brush offs, did I learn in bits and pieces of her past. Of course it in a way was my own fault that I rushed into all this. I take full blame for that. She needed someone to take care of her and I was that. it was only when I realized how terrified of sex she was and how she had been treated that I resigned to just give up.

After all that, it wasn't even her no sex, or even her BPD symptoms that made me leave. It was the cybercheating. Not once, but 3 times.

Speaking to the original question put forth as to 'how to not take it personally:

I think the answer is; you can't.

You will take it personally to one degree or another. Depending on the circumstances and the actual reasons for rejection, you will either take it LESS personally after realizing how terrified a person is of sex (for whatever reason), or MORE personally the more you realize its' about all about you, whether out of resentment, your contribution to the problem, nastiness, or whatever


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

There needs to be a clarification between "withholding" (as in "I'm not going to have sex with you.") and not being in the mood (as in "I really don't feel like it tonight.")

Withholding is detrimental to the marriage. Not being in the mood is natural and can be avoided by better planning.

Is he withholding or not in the mood?


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

In your other posts you talk about him putting up with your crap and also him having porn/masturbation issues. Sounds like there's more going on than just "withholding".


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Thor said:


> I am in a very similar situation. Didn't find out though until 29 years into the marriage about her CSA. Now that I know, I try not to take it personally but the cuts run really deep due to not only the rejections (she'd rather watch Saturday morning cartoons that first summer after the wedding than have sex with me). So I still have a visceral emotional response to rejection sometimes.
> 
> For me, I knew that she had a full sexual past before me, and then we had a good sex life while dating up until just a few months before the wedding. I chalked it up to a lot of stress leading up to the wedding. So it seemed that she was quite capable and happy to have lots of sex, but then not with me. So I really took it deeply personally at first. Once I figured it wasn't just me, she managed to get pregnant so I stayed for the kids.
> 
> So the context and the history is important on whether one takes it personally. If there is a good reason for the spouse's low drive and/or rejections then it isn't personal. It still is not acceptable but it is on them.


Why did her CSA history not interfere with her burning up the sheets before marriage? Looks like the tired old bait and switch to me. She played the game long enough to get a husband and then found it no longer necessary. 

If someone has a LD before marriage, it really doesn't matter all that much to me why they are LD. They could have (and should have) avoided dating or marriage until they worked through whatever physical, emotional, psych, or voodoo malfunctions were interfering with their sexual business. When someone says "I do", we should be able to infer that they actually can. If I am terrified of horses and refuse to get on them, I have no business applying for the position of jockey. The person who hired me shouldn't have to put up with my deliberate fraud.


----------



## Stillasamountain (Jan 13, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Why did her CSA history not interfere with her burning up the sheets before marriage? Looks like the tired old bait and switch to me. She played the game long enough to get a husband and then found it no longer necessary.



This is the part I don't get either. So, yeah, it sounds... convenient now.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Why did her CSA history not interfere with her burning up the sheets before marriage? Looks like the tired old bait and switch to me. She played the game long enough to get a husband and then found it no longer necessary.


Female victims of CSA frequently run into a psychological problem once they get married. If the abuser was a male family member or a trusted adult male, boyfriends are not in those categories. But once the boyfriend becomes a husband he moves into those categories of family or male authority figure. It is a common phenomenon with female CSA victims. And they frequently don't really understand it, they just suddenly find themselves triggering during sex with their husband or having nightmares and flashbacks.

Married CSA victims can find themselves unfulfilled emotionally and sexually in a marriage and then seek that great fun sex they remember with boyfriends. Affairs are more common with CSA victims than others for this reason.

The level of dysfunction in victims varies tremendously, so these are broad generalizations.

edited to add: CSA victims frequently start sex at an earlier age than average, have more partners than average, and engage in wilder sex than average. When dating the CSA victim it can seem pretty amazing because she may be quite uninhibited. This was my wife (though I did not know her true history when we dated). So it is a real shock when the sex stops after the wedding. She truly did enjoy sex with me and with other men before marriage. It screws with one's mind because of that, which is what led me, as a Nice Guy, to at first blame myself for some unknown defect which turned her off of sex.

The other side of the coin is that some CSA victims become quite prudish. One would know early in dating that this woman is not interested in sex and has some aversions to the whole subject.


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

askari said:


> At the beginning yes it hurt and yes one feels rejected and rebuffed.
> 
> How do you stop being hurt and rejected? Easy peasy...don't make any advances whatsoever. Don't expect anything either.
> If she wants a neck/shoulder massage, do it but don't expect anything in return.
> ...


It is personal, whatever the cause. My LDH just never feels any desire for sex. However, he didn't actually let me know this until after we had married - he was more than willing to have sex before we got married. This has led me to suspect that he's married me for my income, especially now that he seems to spend most of his time lying on the bed resting while I work and take care of the house. I do take it personally, I feel as if I've been duped. When I first started struggling with the fact that we are in a sexless marriage, I spent months racking my brains to try to discover why he didn't want sex with me. I felt unattractive and undesirable and every time I had the "talk" with him, I felt needy and ridiculous. During the talks he would always promise to make an effort to change things, but these were empty promises. I now realise that the half bottle of whisky he drinks 4 or 5 evenings a week probably has a lot to do with his lack of desire but he's not willing to cut down on alcohol - he obviously fancies the bottle a lot more than he fancies me  . It was about six months into the marriage that I realised we had a problem and I've spent the past 15 months trying to find a way to fix it, but it will take both of us to fix this and he's not joining in. So, rather than spend my time feeling like I'm flogging a dead horse, I decided that I would just have to find ways of dealing with things the way they are. I can't change him and he's not responsible for my happiness, I am. Taking back control of my own happiness has led to me having to let go of the desire I have for him and I now longer don't have any sexual feelings towards him. As for feeling unattractive and undesirable, I now look to other men for reassurance that I am indeed an attractive and sexy woman. I haven't cheated, but I have noticed just how many men look at me and try to flirt with me and this has gone a long way towards restoring my self esteem. Sad story, I know, but I feel much better since reclaiming my independance and desirability - I now feel that I can move forward with this. I don't expect my marriage to last, but I've accepted this and am waiting until my finances are a little more stable and I can move on.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

doobie, since you are the breadwinner be sure to investigate how your finances will be impacted by D. Talk to a lawyer if you can't get a clear idea online yourself. Mostly I am concerned that he will take half your net assets and also get some form of alimony from you. If your finances are a bit shaky right now it might be better for you to pull the rip cord on the marriage sooner, rather than waiting for things to be better.

It doesn't sound like your marriage can survive or be good, so I would not waste time. Be strategic regarding your own best interests. You don't owe your husband anything.


----------



## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

doobie said:


> It is personal, whatever the cause. My LDH just never feels any desire for sex. However, he didn't actually let me know this until after we had married - he was more than willing to have sex before we got married. This has led me to suspect that he's married me for my income, especially now that he seems to spend most of his time lying on the bed resting while I work and take care of the house. I do take it personally, I feel as if I've been duped. When I first started struggling with the fact that we are in a sexless marriage, I spent months racking my brains to try to discover why he didn't want sex with me. I felt unattractive and undesirable and every time I had the "talk" with him, I felt needy and ridiculous. During the talks he would always promise to make an effort to change things, but these were empty promises. I now realise that the half bottle of whisky he drinks 4 or 5 evenings a week probably has a lot to do with his lack of desire but he's not willing to cut down on alcohol - he obviously fancies the bottle a lot more than he fancies me  . It was about six months into the marriage that I realised we had a problem and I've spent the past 15 months trying to find a way to fix it, but it will take both of us to fix this and he's not joining in. So, rather than spend my time feeling like I'm flogging a dead horse, I decided that I would just have to find ways of dealing with things the way they are. I can't change him and he's not responsible for my happiness, I am. Taking back control of my own happiness has led to me having to let go of the desire I have for him and I now longer don't have any sexual feelings towards him. As for feeling unattractive and undesirable, I now look to other men for reassurance that I am indeed an attractive and sexy woman. I haven't cheated, but I have noticed just how many men look at me and try to flirt with me and this has gone a long way towards restoring my self esteem. Sad story, I know, but I feel much better since reclaiming my independance and desirability - I now feel that I can move forward with this. I don't expect my marriage to last, but I've accepted this and am waiting until my finances are a little more stable and I can move on.



My story exactly. I have a LDW. But we do have two, grown, beautiful daughters.
Been married 33 years, never cheated on each other. I'm in too deep to bail. I have a successful, thriving business, if I were to bail, it'd pretty much bankrupt me and I'm too old to start over. So, I continue to live my life and enjoy my toys/hobbies to the fullest.
She has a teaching degree and was a SAHM for a few years while the girls were growing up. Now, she's teaching in a private school, where she has the past 14 years.


----------



## wingman (Dec 1, 2014)

Rejection sucks. My wife and I had a huge issue with me wanting sex several times a week and her only once a week. It almost broke us up. At her urging, we limited sex to once a week and set aside time every Sunday. That time is sacrosanct . Yes it is hard for me during the week - I have to masterbate when I am horny. But the sex is always great on Sunday, my wife always has energy and enthusiasm (as do I). I am less frustrated because I am not being rejected - I know not to make advances during the week. I know when sex is coming. Every week I look forward to Sunday's like a date.


----------



## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

wingman said:


> Rejection sucks. My wife and I had a huge issue with me wanting sex several times a week and her only once a week. It almost broke us up. At her urging, we limited sex to once a week and set aside time every Sunday. That time is sacrosanct . Yes it is hard for me during the week - I have to masterbate when I am horny. But the sex is always great on Sunday, my wife always has energy and enthusiasm (as do I). I am less frustrated because I am not being rejected - I know not to make advances during the week. I know when sex is coming. Every week I look forward to Sunday's like a date.



I'm not sure how or if I would be able to handle this, honestly, I really don't know.
To me, now this is only my opinion, but, it seems like it would just "become a job". Although, in my case, it'd be fun to at least try for a while. It'd beat what I get now anyway.


----------



## Kvboo (Feb 12, 2013)

Thor said:


> How often does it happen, and what % of your advances are rebuffed?





EleGirl said:


> How often are the rejections?
> 
> 100% of the time?
> 
> ...


I'll start by saying I have a very HD. If we could do it every day I'd love it but with life and kids not going to happen. We usually have sex or just me giving him head once a week. but in between those times I will try to get a quickie here or there out of him and his typical jokingly response is what's wrong with you. I don't get mad or say anything mean I'll just say your boring since I'm usually trying to get it while he's in the kitchen or comes into the bedroom to change. He's not into talking about why he doesn't want to be more active and I don't push him to say why he's not in the mood. We've gone through all the stages were I was the LD partner, then we both were HD and now it's him with the LD. 

I've come a long way and lost a lot of weight and started taking care of myself and caring about making sure I look good everyday for me and him so it kind of hurts the feelings and is hard not to think something is wrong with me when your partner doesn't want to be physical with you even when your offering just to give him a BJ in the kitchen.



Chris Taylor said:


> In your other posts you talk about him putting up with your crap and also him having porn/masturbation issues. Sounds like there's more going on than just "withholding".


Thankfully I can say we've worked through all of those issues 2 years ago after a heated argument were we separated and we both owned up to our faults and accepted that we both needed to change our ways him with his porn viewing and me pushing him to hard. Things have drastically improved for us and between us.


----------



## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> My story exactly. I have a LDW. But we do have two, grown, beautiful daughters.
> Been married 33 years, never cheated on each other. I'm in too deep to bail. I have a successful, thriving business, if I were to bail, it'd pretty much bankrupt me and I'm too old to start over. So, I continue to live my life and enjoy my toys/hobbies to the fullest.


Amen flyer. I thought that when the kids were gone it would be time to pull the pin. The reality is, if I dismantle my thriving business its going to be awfully difficult to set up two households and pay years of college tuition...still all about supporting the kids.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I don't understand how it can not be personal. You want sex with your spouse and he/she doesn't want sex with you. To me that would be like saying you shouldn't be hungry if you go to the fridge and it's empty. 

Of course it's personal. Obviously your response is going to be tempered by your relationship. As in, if it's an infrequent occurrence you're more likely to shrug it off but it doesn't mean you shouldn't be disappointed. You're allowed to have feelings.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> Amen flyer. I thought that when the kids were gone it would be time to pull the pin. The reality is, if I dismantle my thriving business its going to be awfully difficult to set up two households and pay years of college tuition...still all about supporting the kids.


The reality is it's going to be the most difficult thing you ever do no matter when you do it. Putting it off until 'the time is right' will most likely end up in putting it off to the point where the lack of sex is no longer an issue. There will always be a compelling reason not to 'pull the pin.' The sad part is if you ever do manage to do it when you come out the other side you'll be kicking yourself for not having done it sooner.


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Thor said:


> doobie, since you are the breadwinner be sure to investigate how your finances will be impacted by D. Talk to a lawyer if you can't get a clear idea online yourself. Mostly I am concerned that he will take half your net assets and also get some form of alimony from you. If your finances are a bit shaky right now it might be better for you to pull the rip cord on the marriage sooner, rather than waiting for things to be better.
> 
> It doesn't sound like your marriage can survive or be good, so I would not waste time. Be strategic regarding your own best interests. You don't owe your husband anything.


We have no assets whatsoever, I'm just trying to get myself to a point where I have enough saved to rent my own place - this usually means 3 months rent up front. We've been here a year and I financed moving into this place. What my H will do for an income, I have no idea. The last thing I want is to leave him in poverty, but he has always had his parents to fall back on, whereas I have never had that luxury. I do know that when we split up, he will need to get his father to finance his future. We don't live in our home country so I don't think any of the legal stuff will kick in when we first split up. I will need to find somewhere to live or keep this place on my own and take in a lodger.


----------



## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks MG. Maybe I am waiting for it to come from her rather than me being the horny bastard who threw his SAHM wife under the bus for a younger model. She is no more thrilled having a partial husband than I am having a partial wife. I can live with whatever the story is if she pulls the pin.


In the interest of ending the threadjack, damn straight its personal. How does a rejection come with any other caption than "I don't want you".


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Cre8ify said:


> In the interest of ending the threadjack, damn straight its personal. How does a rejection come with any other caption than "I don't want you".


Agreed, whichever way you look at it, it's personal - because the one person that you can (morally) have sex with doesn't want to have sex with you. My LDH has assured me that it's nothing to do with me and than he finds me attractive and "wants" me but I find that pretty hard to believe when we haven't had sex for 3 months.


----------



## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> we haven't had sex for 3 months


Sorry doobie, that's soul crushing. We went more than 6 months in 2012 and my wife didn't notice as far as I could tell. I stopped chasing as I wanted to know she held no power over me by withholding if that were her plan. There was no plan...she had no issues with us. She hates that this drought period ever happened btw and would be embarrassed about it to her dying day.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If you think sexual rejection hurts you have never studied or practiced any of the arts, or never designed buildings, products, etc intended to be used by the general public. Or tried to sell stuff.


----------



## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

My experience is completely different John. I create fashion items for for my living. There are hits...there are misses. The misses are part of the process and never tip me over. I can honestly say that the failure of even my most beloved project, has never left a mark like my wife can.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I work on longer term 1-2,year projects (consumer electronic stuff). It's a team effort but when this consumer review or that tears us to pieces, it hurts. Or used to 

My older girl is a design major in college. Serious rejection training too.


----------



## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

Cre8ify said:


> My experience is completely different John. I create fashion items for for my living. There are hits...there are misses. The misses are part of the process and never tip me over. I can honestly say that the failure of even my most beloved project, has never left a mark like my wife can.




Same here. I bid on jobs. I get some of them, loose some of them. 
All together different from being rejected by the wife.


----------



## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

With myself I never seem to get any better handling rejection. I try to learn from it. Or try a different approach with it. When I get to feeling rejected I tend to back off and stay a way for a while . Like if a rattlesnake bit you. But the strange thing is then She will come forward after a few days and say what's wrong how come you don't cuddle anymore, Or you seem so stand offish .Then the whole cycle starts over. I come back for more and get rejected again. And I never seem to get it.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

flyer said:


> Same here. I bid on jobs. I get some of them, loose some of them.
> 
> All together different from being rejected by the wife.



Then you're not pouring your soul into your work. Which is good.


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> If you think sexual rejection hurts you have never studied or practiced any of the arts, or never designed buildings, products, etc intended to be used by the general public. Or tried to sell stuff.


We're both creatives - he's an artist and I'm a writer/crafter. In the past I've showcased my craft stuff loads of times at events and, yes, the rejection of my creativity can be a little hard to take - however, the rejection of me as a person, as a woman and as a partner is far, far worse. When a client rejects a piece I see it as a rejection of that particular piece of work - it's more usual that it's not a rejection - I just need to rework/tweak the piece and it then gets accepted. However, the rejection of ME and my sexual activities/skills is something that beats me down on a daily basis. Interestingly, my H feels the rejection of his work much harder than I do. I have it in my mind that I use my writing to make a living - I barter my skills in this area for money. However, when I'm offering myself, I do so freely and the rejection is unbearable because I can't alter/edit/tweak and then get accepted. I've tried dressing differently, acting differently, etc but none of it is good enough to get accepted by the man who is supposed to be my lover - it is ME and my love that is being rejected.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, the thing is you're being rejected by one person for a specific piece of work that does not have too much time and effort involved compared to a relationship. Also relatively simple and not very expensive stuff.

I help design electronics. Expensive stuff that takes years to design and test. Lots of pieces. But eventually when you take the thing home and power it up it's my responsibility to make sure the User Experience is what they expect it to be - expensive stuff.

Then a month after your pride and joy hits the market you read reviews on amazon or what not that make your stomach turn. At that point it's not nearly as different.

Thankfully we do a lot of testing and simulation before going to the market. Would be nice to do it with a potential spouse


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> Well, the thing is you're being rejected by one person for a specific piece of work that does not have too much time and effort involved compared to a relationship. Also relatively simple and not very expensive stuff.
> 
> I help design electronics. Expensive stuff that takes years to design and test. Lots of pieces. But eventually when you take the thing home and power it up it's my responsibility to make sure the User Experience is what they expect it to be - expensive stuff.
> 
> ...


John, I wouldn't worry too much about reviews - user experience also depends on the user - not just their expectations but their ability  . I happen to know for a fact that a lot of the reviews you see online nowadays are "paid for" reviews and taste and satisfaction are particularly individual qualities. 

As for testing a potential spouse before going to market - this is a second marriage for both of us - maybe I should have asked his first wife for an honest review  .


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

That's the spirit!!!!!!

A spouse review site. Let me talk to some Venture Capital sources 

User reviews are important unfortunately because potential users are influences by existing reviews. Management cares about such things...


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> That's the spirit!!!!!!
> 
> A spouse review site. Let me talk to some Venture Capital sources
> 
> User reviews are important unfortunately because potential users are influences by existing reviews. Management cares about such things...


I'm in John when you find the backers - I'll do the social media marketing side of it


----------



## tascam (Sep 26, 2008)

All of these are reasons not to marry. If she's not putting out, you can get it somewhere else. No sex = relationship is over.


----------



## marriedandlonely (Nov 7, 2011)

I personally think some of us make our own mistakes when we allow our partner to hold us at arms length instead of insisting on a kiss on the lips when spending time apart and not accepting a peck on the cheek as in my own instance and although having made numerous advances after cooking cleaning mending and a healthy financial support ,I still cannot get a genuine warm cuddle that leads to a commitment and even asking the question "why" I get "I just dont feel like it"
To be blatantly honest I am at the point of throwing the whole thing out with the bath water,I am at my witts end trying to understand the female way of thinking it always seems to be the opposite of what I've imagined it may be
Maybe a bloke should take a course of estrogen pills and see if it helps understand my spouse's psyke
I FIND IT HARD NOT TO TAKE IT PERSONALLY & AFTER 7 YEARS I REPRIMAND MYSELF FOR TURNING DOWN PROPOSITIONS IN OUR PAST:scratchheadfrom outside sources)


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Thor said:


> Female victims of CSA frequently run into a psychological problem once they get married. If the abuser was a male family member or a trusted adult male, boyfriends are not in those categories. But once the boyfriend becomes a husband he moves into those categories of family or male authority figure. It is a common phenomenon with female CSA victims. And they frequently don't really understand it, they just suddenly find themselves triggering during sex with their husband or having nightmares and flashbacks.
> 
> Married CSA victims can find themselves unfulfilled emotionally and sexually in a marriage and then seek that great fun sex they remember with boyfriends. Affairs are more common with CSA victims than others for this reason.
> 
> ...


What's magical about a wedding ring that brings this phenomenon to light? Her first encounters with her husband occurred before marriage. He was still male and back then, she was quite sexually active. Does wedding cake promote PTSD in CSA victims?


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> What's magical about a wedding ring that brings this phenomenon to light? Her first encounters with her husband occurred before marriage. He was still male and back then, she was quite sexually active. Does wedding cake promote PTSD in CSA victims?


Marriage can trigger PTSD in the female CSA victim.

The basic dynamic is that a boyfriend is just some guy, which is not threatening. In her childhood, she was traumatized by one or more trusted adults, including males. The abuser may have been a male relative. Parents may have inflicted trauma by shaming her for the abuse if she told them about it, or may have told her it was her fault it happened.

So there are a lot of negative connections in her mind between male relatives and her abuse.

When she gets married, or perhaps when she is engaged and the wedding is approaching (the case with my wife), the boyfriend crosses over from just being some guy into becoming an adult male _relative_. So now her trauma is triggered by him. And, he wants to have sex with her which can make it much worse.

Many women don't understand what happened, but they now find sex very difficult with their husband. Their trauma is triggered by the sex with him. Before the wedding the sex was fun and unrelated to the abuse.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Hit the bottle, it's what my ex did, but any excuse. You have to thrash it out, talk, talk and talk again. Other than that it's a case of continuing to live like a trappist monk, which sent my ex husband over the edge, silly sod. Good Luck xxx


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Kvboo said:


> Those with a withholding sex partner how do you not take it personal when your advances or sexual comments about wanting some are turned down?


Depends on the reason. many people refuse due to physical or psychological problems that make sex difficult or unpleasant.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Mr B said:


> Depends on the reason. many people refuse due to physical or psychological problems that make sex difficult or unpleasant.


Those people have no business getting married unless they honestly make it clear that their intent is to have a sexless marriage. When one says "I do" their partner should be able to assume they can and will do as they promised. Anything else is fraud. Once in a marriage, if someone finds they just can't or don't want to have sex, they should have the decency to leave the marriage and leave their completely innocent fraud victim as fully restored as possible. Don't deceive them and then take half their property and custody of the kids.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

There are many factors to a relationship, love, respect, sharing the same goals, if those things are compromised then you need to ask yourself some questions. I was given a get out clause, my husband left, I would never have him back because he ticked none of the above mentioned boxes. Perhaps I'm the lucky one, all I can say is although at first I felt my life had ended, I have now seen that no matter how long or hard we tried at the marriage, it would have never worked. Good Luck xxx


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Forcibly and fraudulently dragging one's spouse down into a celibate zombie hell for life is about the lowest, most evil behavior the human mind can conceive of. There has to be a special corner in hell waiting for a lot of people.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Not necessarily, probably. In hell? Wow, I'm in serious trouble then. Unconditional love is OK if the conditions are right. I love the way you think though, good sense of humour or not xxx


----------



## dealing (Sep 30, 2014)

I've been married 8 years but with my wife 16 years, I love her dearly.lately our sex life has taken a turn for the worst.i know as a man I shouldn't sound needy but I want & need affection attention sex from my wife.she has never turned me down but she never iniates sex she acts like its a chore and basically just lays there & takes one for the team.just because she never turns me down she thinks our sex life is fine.i beg to differ.its different when someone desires you & it shows in the bed room or else where that my wife doesn't.we've tried counseling read books etc. now we argue so much about it before hand that we're both turned off & don't even follow through which is a win for her so to speak. this has been going on for @least a year & im starting to resent her lack of effort.i don't know how much more lack of overall affection etc I can handle, please help


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Women need more than the old come on, it's difficult to know where you're going wrong. If she finds it a bit of a chore, then questions need to be asked. Some men can be very wham, bam, thank you mam, which isn't good, unless the woman is a pro and good at faking it. I'd revaluate the situation, sit down to a nice cup of tea together, nothing complicated, stick to Ceylon rather than the Lapsang Souchong. Could be just a storm in a tea cup, toddle pip xxx


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Kvboo said:


> Those with a withholding sex partner how do you not take it personal when your advances or sexual comments about wanting some are turned down?


Is it really "withholding" or do they just not want to fvck you? 

I don't mean to sound crass but I think it's pretty f-ked up anyone would "withhold" from their partner. Seems more likely they are low libido or just not that into sharing genitalia with you. 

I'm sorry. That DOES suck.

It is extremely hard not to take it personally if you have a partner who constantly and habitually turns you down for sex. I mean who wouldn't feel bad about that?


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

tommyr said:


> I have worked this approach out with my LD wife so that she NEVER turns me down but instead she responds "Not right now" and she picks a day/time in the very near future when we will have sex. This accomplishes several important things:
> 1) her desired outcome (no sex) is similar to a rejection
> 2) let's me down easy: hearing "Tomorrow" is better than "No"
> 3) forces her to think about a better time
> 4) gives me the specific "better time" to look forward to, so I can plan and initiate again at the designated moment


That sounds so soul-sucking. You have to plan when you can have sex? Eeh. Do you ever get to turn her down and tell her "Wednesday at 7?"


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

I can fit you in between the dental appointment and having my hair done. You need to get the necessities out of the way first, good dentists and hairdressers are killers to find. Keep those crumpets warm xxx


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Those people have no business getting married unless they honestly make it clear that their intent is to have a sexless marriage. When one says "I do" their partner should be able to assume they can and will do as they promised. Anything else is fraud. Once in a marriage, if someone finds they just can't or don't want to have sex, they should have the decency to leave the marriage and leave their completely innocent fraud victim as fully restored as possible. Don't deceive them and then take half their property and custody of the kids.


Agreed - I'm in a fraudulent sham of a marriage. I've just spent 3 weeks away visiting family for Christmas and can honestly say it was much easier dealing with our relationship from a distance. I did not miss him at all and welcomed the chance to sleep in a clean bed every night on my own. I've just arrived back and he's missed me terribly (the company, not the physical stuff as there is no physical stuff any more). Before I went away we had an incident in a bar one night when a guy we know was coming on to me really strong. I was flattered, yes - the guy actually came right out with it and said he wanted to take me outside and "nail" me. This was the first time in a couple of years that I actually felt that a man wanted me and it was a thrill. However, I moved away as I could see that this would lead to trouble. The guy then started on my H, telling him what he'd like to do to me. My husband took this for a while but eventually objected to what the guy was saying and the guy then became quite belligerent, threatening violence. It was an awful experience and I'm now reluctant to go out at all. Yes, having somebody fancy me is very flattering and makes me feel like a woman again but the whole incident was so unpleasant (and scary eventually) that I now feel the need to avoid the company of men.


----------



## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

intheory said:


> Why? Why as a man can't you be needy sometimes?
> 
> I'd love for my husband to "need" me more. Sounds great. I want someone that I can matter to.
> 
> ...


I don't think that's the kind of needy being talked about here.


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

intheory said:


> Why? Why as a man can't you be needy sometimes?
> 
> I'd love for my husband to "need" me more. Sounds great. I want someone that I can matter to.
> 
> ...


It is sad thing when you first realize it.

But it's really no different from all of the stuff you learn as a man growing up.

You are supposed to just take it. Women, children, everyone else can cry and get emotional, but you cannot. At least, you can't let anyone see.

That's just how it is.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> It is sad thing when you first realize it.
> 
> But it's really no different from all of the stuff you learn as a man growing up.
> 
> ...


We've set up a society where boys are turned into emotionally stunted men and girls are turned into sexually repressed women. No wonder sites like this are so popular.

As VMS stated, the "neediness" men are advised against here is different, but how often is that clarified? How many emotionally stunted men who are breaking inside are told "don't be needy" and rather than take that first step to open up to their wives, just stuff everything down deeper instead because "needy isn't attractive"?


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Women just want men to value them, if you do this, without overdoing it, then you've cracked the code. Oh, it's windy xxx


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

People like to complicate things, we can set goals which are totally beyond us. Life is competitive enough, it's a case of revaluing what you have and homing in on all the positive aspects. Be thankful for all the good things life offers you, there are many, it's just a case of looking for them at the bottom of the draw. I found my camera the other day, best feeling xxx


----------



## marriedandlonely (Nov 7, 2011)

askari said:


> At the beginning yes it hurt and yes one feels rejected and rebuffed.
> 
> How do you stop being hurt and rejected? Easy peasy...don't make any advances whatsoever. Don't expect anything either.
> If she wants a neck/shoulder massage, do it but don't expect anything in return.
> ...


A lot of truth in the old saying "ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES JACK A DULL BOY":scratchhead:


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

The artificial smoke and mirrors only works for so long, props have a tendency of letting you down, just when you need them. Watch the wall behind you.....darn, too late xxx


----------



## marriedandlonely (Nov 7, 2011)

I dunno said:


> Women just want men to value them, if you do this without overdoing it, then you've cracked the code. Oh, it's windy xxx


Herein lies a problem,experience has taught me that no two occasions exact the same "CODE" depending on the mood and the woman,SO how elastic is the 'code' and can we ever crack it, truthfully ?
SO HERE IS A QUESTION FOR ALL WOMEN IS IT PART OF A WOMANS MAKEUP TO WANT/NEED THE COMPLIMENTS OF ANOTHER MAN, AND DO YOU REALLY THINK WOMEN ARE CREATURES WHO WANT A MONOGOMOUS RELATIONSHIP IF SOCIETY DIDN'T EXPECT IT

And yes ,when it all comes down to it men want the same things as women someone to hold and be held by and a show of appreciation for the things provided ,and as for men,in most cases I hope, given the chance,the occasion to take their  mate to places and highs that only two intimate souls can experience , to satisfy her smallest whim, to take the sex act to a place that creates a delerium of satisfaction that is enjoyed and looked at as a special occasion where two souls blend in a beautiful indulgence , rather than looked at as a task

But it makes me sad that we cannot fathom the reason for a constant rejection which in turn makes us wonder how to regain the trust needed for a loving ,caring relationship .(apologies for the WBTM type of man who only cares about his own satisfaction)
Just how far down can one go before we say I'm opting OUT?


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

People differ, they sometimes read situations in a completely topsy turvy, upside down way, it's what makes them, them and you, you. We travel through life searching and trying to get the balance right, often we fail miserably, if we can learn from our failings and stand by our inner goodness then we've won, pointing the finger will never do, it's rude, if anything.....Vive la difference xxx


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

marriedandlonely said:


> But it makes me sad that we cannot fathom the reason for a constant rejection which in turn makes us wonder how to regain the trust needed for a loving ,caring relationship .(


Constant rejection is either a form of psychological dysfunction or a total lack of attraction. In the first case it could be due to childhood abuse or very faulty parenting, of learning the wrong lessons about what sex is and what it means, or some kind of organic illness. I the second case it could be the man has become unattractive to her (fat, lazy, alcoholic, abusive), or she is just using him for other needs such as financial support.

The genders could be reversed and the same arguments made.

Whatever the cause, it is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Unfortunately, people do tend to pair up with similar levels of dysfunctions. The Nice Guy pairs up with the sexually dysfunctional woman, and then he is unable to have boundaries himself, so he is unable to leave the marriage.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Our perception of people changes at different stages in our lives, what we look for in a person, say in our twenties is not always the basis to a solid foundation and lasting relationship. We may rush into a marriage through family or financial pressure, in which case it's never going to be an easy ride. If your partner decides to throw the wedding ring in the sock draw the day after the wedding, then let it be a warning. Keep warm xxx


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

doobie said:


> The guy then started on my H, telling him what he'd like to do to me.


What kind of bars are you going to? That sounds like the ********* move of the century. I can't imagine going on to some guy about how I'd like to have sex with his wife...and live to tell about it.


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

MaritimeGuy said:


> What kind of bars are you going to? That sounds like the ********* move of the century. I can't imagine going on to some guy about how I'd like to have sex with his wife...and live to tell about it.


This was just our regular night out with friends at a local bar in our village. The guy who came on to me doesn't live on this island but visits for work purposes several times a year. I'd met the guy before (and met his wife and children) and he seemed okay. However, he'd come into the bar a little earlier already totally drunk and looking for trouble. The trouble didn't actually start until most of our friends had left the bar (they'd all realised that the guy was out to cause trouble) and by then my H had also had quite a lot to drink (half a bottle of whiskey before we even left the house). Two totally drunk men is a recipe for disaster. I was stuck in the middle, trying to get my H to keep his mouth shut - the bar owner and a couple of our male friends were preventing the other guy from coming near my husband (who he was threatening to kill by this time) and it was a very scary experience. Despite being in my fifties, I'm not a big drinker (can only manage two drinks in an evening) and am not that used to being in bars - I have never been caught in the middle of a potential fist fight in this way and it was pretty horrific. The other guy kept being ejected from the bar, waiting round the corner for us to leave and then rushing back in to have another go. In the end, the bar owner and another guy wrestled him to the floor and another friend of ours went and got his car, came back in to collect us and drove us home despite the fact that we live a two minute walk away. Needless to say, I heaved a sigh of relief when the guy eventually went back home to the mainland. To be honest, I was just as disgusted with my H's behaviour as I was with the other guy's - they were like a pair of animals arguing over me as if I were a bone or something. I felt humiliated by both of their behaviours.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Was he a local or an expat? I thought you live in some relatively remote part of Greece?


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> Was he a local or an expat? I thought you live in some relatively remote part of Greece?


Yep, I do live in a remote part of Greece where a lot of ex pats live. This guy works for an international company that has regular business in our area. It looks as if some of the people here who use the company are considering alerting his employers to what happened - he was in corporate uniform at the time. He also seems to have stolen a package that was supposed to be delivered to us (which will be taken quite seriously by his employers, a delivery company). We've been reluctant to make the complaint ourselves as we know he is likely to lost his job over this (we've discovered he's already been suspended a few times) and we know that this will impact quite dramatically on his family income - he has a wife and two children. 

From my point of view, I was enjoying a night out with friends which turned into a scary incident involving two men ready to fight over me. Not at all flattering, though I do know that some ladies enjoy this type of thing. It's never happened to me before and in the past if I have seen a fight about to kick off, I've made a sharp exit. However, because my H was involved, it put me at risk and I felt I had to stay to make sure my H didn't get too out of order. 

The irony here is not lost on me - my H (who has no interest in me sexually) was offended that another man was showing an interest. Talk about dog in a manger - all this did was show my H in an extremely bad light. I felt totally objectified by both men.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

The guy sounds like a real loser. It's only a matter of time before he runs into the wrong person with that kind of behaviour. From your side if he loses his job because you report a missing package that's not your fault...it's his.

I see your point about how horrible an evening that was. That kind of drama is no fun for anyone.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

From what I remember from a trip to Greece aeons ago the locals are quite the amorous types, hitting on foreign women. But that was decades ago. Today they've beaten down by Frau Merkel...

They, like my own birth country, have fallen to globalization. But it's a good life experience to have. Do they still have the Flying Dolphins hydrofoil boat service? We took some island trips with that... Wheeeeee! Try a ride and stop worrying


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> From what I remember from a trip to Greece aeons ago the locals are quite the amorous types, hitting on foreign women. But that was decades ago. Today they've beaten down by Frau Merkel...
> 
> They, like my own birth country, have fallen to globalization. But it's a good life experience to have. Do they still have the Flying Dolphins hydrofoil boat service? We took some island trips with that... Wheeeeee! Try a ride and stop worrying


They do still have the Flying Dolphins John - a quick way to get around the islands but not very interesting as you don't get to see the scenery. We've been living in our village for more than a year now and the local men are always quite respectful. They have lots of ex pats living in the area and everybody here (men and women) tend to be very welcoming towards us.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

It's been a long time since I've been in the Greek islands but I recall when I went there the men seemed to think American woman would have sex with them at the drop of a hat. I think they had watched too much American television. Or maybe American women on holidays at the time were having sex with them at the drop of a hat.

Attempts to seduce my girlfriend at the time were essentially a leer and a hand gesture. Not very subtle...


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Feeling a little like we've threadjacked with the talk turning to Greek islands - this is about taking it personal which is the case wherever you live. If you want a Greek island discussion (and there's quite a lot to discuss), maybe we should start one on one of the other boards where it would be more relevant - I'm more than happy to join in with it.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Nothing wrong with the switch to a Greek Island, we have horizontal ran at the moment and the thought of sunning it on an island somewhere sounds bliss. Perhaps it's where we should all be mentally, it would half the problems straight away, I'm thinking of a remote beach on Corfu. Keep focused and more importantly, warm xxx


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

We grew up in a different part of Europe thinking American women in general would be "easy" and maybe they were in the 70's. I came here in 1982 for college and they were nothing like "easy".... Not in the Deep South at least. Now I know better.

But if the guy in the bar was from a part of the world that still thinks so...


----------

