# manup,temp control,silly games



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I understand the Man up concept and the thermostat concept and that it works if applied with the right amount of touch so to speak.



BUT, It just seems so silly to me I guess I'm getting to the point that I just don't want to be married to someone an adult no less that needs someone to keep their thumb on the back of their neck 24 /7 to get what they deserve out of their marriage.

To have to be on your gaurd always so you don't get screwed just don't sound like much of a marriage.


do you think all marriage eventually turn into this or are there marriages where both people are givers and reasonable and have the ability to police themselves. to realise when things are out of balance and then on their own try to be a good partner and fix the imbalance without having to play silly games.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

My personal experience to date is that manning up/temp control REALLY works.

But like you are finding, the more I man up, the less I want to make the effort into pouring myself into a marriage that I don't get much out of.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> do you think all marriage eventually turn into this or are there marriages where both people are givers and reasonable and have the ability to police themselves. to realise when things are out of balance and then on their own try to be a good partner and fix the imbalance without having to play silly games.


There definitely are marriages where both people give, are reasonable, are committed to each other, and are mature enough to try and address their own issues. I'd like to think that my H and I fall in to this category. We've been married 23 years - neither of us has ever resorted to playing any games (at least not the kind you are talking about). 

I've realized that I don't see a lot of those kinds of marriages on here as the majority are people asking for advice with problems and there often is a great imbalance in their marriage because one or the other is unreasonable or immature or any number of things. So when it starts to get me down, I just unplug, and go spend time with the one that I love.

"_I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum_." ~Frances Willard


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> BUT, It just seems so silly to me I guess I'm getting to the point that I just don't want to be married to someone an adult no less that needs someone to keep their thumb on the back of their neck 24 /7 to get what they deserve out of their marriage.
> 
> To have to be on your gaurd always so you don't get screwed just don't sound like much of a marriage.



I understand "man up" and there isn't anything wrong with it, BUT IMO, I agree that if you're at a point in the marriage where you always have to be on guard, and as you put it, "to keep their thumb on the back of their neck 24 /7 to get what they deserve out of their marriage", then to me its not much of a marriage. 

I 100% believe marriage is work and anything worth having should be, but when it gets a certain point of constantly feeling the need to man up just so you marriage will work/last, then something is wrong. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

The purpose of the Man Up and the thermostat is to make people see that their behavior is negatively affecting their spouse. The one who is too needy is smothering their spouse, although they think they are being loving. We love people in the way that we want to be loved, and our behavior may bring exactly the opposite of what we want.

This will feel forced at first, but then it should become a natural part of our lives. I had to learn to do this as a parent because I tended to be too much of a friend to my children.

However, if this feels false to you and you never get comfortable with it, I would say that you and your spouse are not compatible. You are supposed to be meeting each other's needs, not playing games. It should eventually feel right, and if it never does, then your spouse is not the right person for you. The idea is to love your spouse, bring back the sexual attraction, not to make you subservient.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> There definitely are marriages where both people give, are reasonable, are committed to each other, and are mature enough to try and address their own issues. I'd like to think that my H and I fall in to this category. We've been married 23 years - neither of us has ever resorted to playing any games (at least not the kind you are talking about).
> 
> I've realized that *I don't see a lot of those kinds of marriages on here as the majority are people asking for advice with problems and there often is a great imbalance in their marriage because one or the other is unreasonable or immature or any number of things. * So when it starts to get me down, I just unplug, and go spend time with the one that I love.
> 
> "_I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum_." ~Frances Willard


:iagree:

I see that too and I haven't been on here very long. My husband and I are both givers. We don't play games with one another either and don't see the point in doing so. We call each other out on issues if necessary, talk about it, then drop it. We're honest with each other, even when it may hurt to hear or deliver the truth, but from that we've developed a deep respect and love for one another as partners. 

I USED to play games in previous relationships, but I was a lot younger and sillier too. I faced myself and grew up.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Acorn said:


> My personal experience to date is that manning up/temp control REALLY works.
> 
> But like you are finding, the more I man up, the less I want to make the effort into pouring myself into a marriage that I don't get much out of.


Amen!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband wouldn't know how to play games and frankly I HATE games, never been a part of our experience in any way. I don't disagree that these things WORK for others though, it is just not needed FOR ME --or FOR HIM. 

Simple honest heartfelt communication, being vulnerable before each other with our wants /desires --is all WE need with each other to arouse our doing for the other. Sure sometimes we may have a little fight, being as close as we are, this is bound to happen at times, but we NEVER go to bed angry. When it is done, it is BURIED. We learn something of value with every little fight we have to bring us to a better place. 

We are both givers, but it helps tremendously that we have the same Love Languages in the same order, so everything flows quite naturally.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I thought this thread would have generated some responses from some of the people who advocate the manning up journey.

not that I disagree that the concepts in the manning up is wrong.

it just seems like to much bull sh-t to have to go through.


My concept of marriage is different I guess I want a partner an equal partner some one who is a team player not someone who is selfish that you have to keep in check or they might fall out of love with you.

someone who is honest someone who would comunicate that you were not making the grade or that they were unhappy for whatever reason instead of just being complacent and letting things degrade.

someone with good morals


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

That's the kind of marriage that everyone wants. You are right, if your spouse does not let you know what they want, does not participate as an equal partner in the marriage, then you do not have a relationship that is worth keeping.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

chillymorn said:


> it just seems like to much bull sh-t to have to go through.
> 
> 
> My concept of marriage is different I guess I want a partner an equal partner some one who is a team player not someone who is selfish that you have to keep in check or they might fall out of love with you.
> ...


I won't call it manning up.

Here is what I will tell you. My view of, and perspective regarding intimate relationships has been forever changed. That started shortly after my marriage cratered 3 years ago.

I have seen people refer to this stuff as bullsh!t, call it game playing, misogynistic, manipulation, contrived, inauthentic, and pathetic.

I used to be one of them.

Different people here ascribe different elements of importance, whether it be focusing on passion, emotional balance or temperature, or playing up 'alpha' qualities.

Me? In a nutshell, I now simply coalesce down to simply, 'paying attention'.

Pay attention to yourself. Hold yourself accountable. Be the kind of person you admire. Have a personal code of conduct, that you enforce on yourself, and hold others accountable to, based upon it.

From the moment we 'fall in love' what do most relationships do? What is the arc they follow? Do they grow consistently stronger, more loving, trusting, and bonded over time?
Or do they become less of what they once were? Cracks show up. Annoyances. Distraction. Obligation. Selfishness. Passion ebbs. Respect starts to dwindle. Resentment starts to set in. 

Relationships strive towards imbalance ... not balance. Everyone believes the opposite.

Those who figure out the code for maintaining a balance of both their own and their partners happiness and satisfaction with the relationship, are able to make it work. They are paying attention.

Paying attention may also make it clear that you should NOT remain with a particular partner.

Paying attention means doing things that foster your bond instead of deteriorating it. It also means challenging yourself or your partner when necessary to point out imbalance and attempt to correct it.

All of the 'work' is going to feel like bullsh!t and a chore if your partner is not responding positively.
But that is exactly the point. Doing the work, enables you to see, that it's time let a partner that doesn't want to work with you ... go.

Most people want the marriage you describe. The issue becomes that most people do all of the 'work' up-front on the relationship, and then presume they are done. Voila, they have balance.

All I can tell you is that my ex-wife possessed ALL of the positive qualities you outline. Who would knowingly marry a selfish, closed off, dishonest, morally bankrupt partner with the belief you'll spend a lifetime together?

It's always going to be work. Man-up is just ONE methodology for helping guys realize that it IS work. And the work starts with themselves and then expands to encompass their partners, families, friends, co-workers etc.

The work helps you to determine which relationships should be valued, cherished, and fostered, and which should be minimized, or terminated.

At it's core, it is not about what you can get someone else to do. It's about what you are going to do, and distinctly not do, moving forward.

The work will always be there, whether you think you have a balanced relationship or not.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Deejo nailed it. Particularly:

"Pay attention to yourself. Hold yourself accountable. Be the kind of person you admire. Have a personal code of conduct, that you enforce on yourself, and hold others accountable to, based upon it."


I would also add that you need to command respect and expect to be respected. LTRs require work. Our biology betrays us and we begin to take each other for granted. If we do not "pay attention" to our relationship we will find that doesnt resemble the one we had or the one we envisioned.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Great post, Deejo. This is what so many people miss about the meaning of marriage. It should not be tit for tat, but doing things for your spouse because you love them. I hate the attitude that women game men for their money, and men should game women for sex. Don't get married if you want to get something for your selfish ego. It is supposed to be about giving yourself to another person so that you two together can become greater, better people, than you could be by yourself.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> I won't call it manning up.
> 
> Here is what I will tell you. My view of, and perspective regarding intimate relationships has been forever changed. That started shortly after my marriage cratered 3 years ago.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to respond .

Fantastic responce.

you spelled it out so even a thick head like me could clearly gain a better understanding.

with that said I think I will pay better attention to life in general.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

Deejo said:


> I won't call it manning up.
> 
> Here is what I will tell you. My view of, and perspective regarding intimate relationships has been forever changed. That started shortly after my marriage cratered 3 years ago.
> 
> ...



Deejo,
I have written countless articles expressing the thoughts you have written here. This is the key to a mutually happy marriage. Very well said Sir!

Warmly,
RDJ


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

I wouldnt consider manning-up to be part of marriage, or even a marriage saver. To me manning-up is realizing that you have issues. Just that. Sure, these issues tend to rub your spouse the wrong way, which is why many try to man-up to save a marriage.

But resolve your issues for you. If your wife comes around, great. If not... Well, your a man now, go figure it out!


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

I believe that manning up is good for inspiring sexual polarity. But good sex is not a marriage.

A good marriage inspires good sex. 

A good marriage comes from mutually meeting each other’s needs for happiness. Selflessness not selfishness, everything else grows from there. I believe that is what deejo’s underlying point was here. Please correct me if I'm misreading it.

Warmly,

RDJ


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

To me ManUp = enforce your boundaries. And that isn't a game that is demanding respect. 

And the thermostat loosely speaking means: Don't crowd your partner emotionally. Don't be needy. It is a turn off. 

My W has absolutely no idea that I say "ILY" less than I want. That I sometimes wait for her to hug me. This isn't like doing 3D calculus in my head. It is a light bit of emotional restraint. I never screw with her head though. She asks me "nicely" to do things for her at bed time. This is very much a "do you love me"? type behavior. I happily do those things. 

I don't deny her my love, simply provide her enough space to love me back. 





chillymorn said:


> I understand the Man up concept and the thermostat concept and that it works if applied with the right amount of touch so to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Quoted for Truth



MEM11363 said:


> To me ManUp = enforce your boundaries. And that isn't a game that is demanding respect.
> 
> And the thermostat loosely speaking means: Don't crowd your partner emotionally. Don't be needy. It is a turn off.
> 
> ...


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

How can anybody demand respect? Did you mean command respect? 
Not saying ILY and holding back to illicit a response from her sounds manipulative. How would that be different than a woman who withholds sex to get what she wants?
What am I missing here MEM? :scratchhead:


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> How can anybody demand respect?


By being respectable and holding to account anyone who refuses to treat you as you are.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

ren said:


> By being respectable and holding to account anyone who refuses to treat you as you are.


That isn't demanding though, that is commanding. You simply cannot demand anyone to respect another human being. You can however act in a way that makes others respect you, i.e, commanding respect. 
If you are demanding respect, you are a dictator and the lesser beings only show respect out of fear. 
Bottom line, respect is earned.....it isn't demanded.
I think MEM meant command not demand. I hope.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That isn't demanding though, that is commanding. You simply cannot demand anyone to respect another human being. You can however act in a way that makes others respect you, i.e, commanding respect.
> If you are demanding respect, you are a dictator and the lesser beings only show respect out of fear.
> Bottom line, respect is earned.....it isn't demanded.
> I think MEM meant command not demand. I hope.


I think you are looking at 'demanding respect' from the POV of a person who is elevated, or wants to be elevated above the other. Sure, not possible. But if your needs and interests are constantly put on the backburner for your spouse, then you can demand equal respect in the sense that you expect the partner to give your needs equal consideration. You expect to be treated with the same respect that you give. Still demanding. Respect here is the careful consideration of the other person's needs and desires.

Often, the one who is not respecting their spouse doesn't even realize it. They live in a world of one, their self, and their own needs, assuming the spouse has the same exact needs. They give what they think the other one needs. If it is a man, you'll often see that they think that a great income should be enough for the wife. By putting her foot down, explaining that it is no longer acceptable to her that he would expect sex without a bare minimum of quality time, she is demanding his respect.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> How can anybody demand respect? Did you mean command respect?
> Not saying ILY and holding back to illicit a response from her sounds manipulative. How would that be different than a woman who withholds sex to get what she wants?
> What am I missing here MEM? :scratchhead:


exactly.


both side are playing games instead of just loving eachother and comunicating.

I starting to think I just don't want to be married to someone who isn't on the same page as I moraly

with holding and manipulating is not something conducive to a happy marriage.

its sinfull in my mind. evil even 

just not something I want to be around.

if I realised a friend was using this type of behavior they would not be my friend for long.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> I understand the Man up concept and the thermostat concept and that it works if applied with the right amount of touch so to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It really does take two to tango. Being on the dance floor by yourself or worse with a partner who is deliberately out of step and kicking you in the shins is not much fun and is never going to be.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> *To me ManUp = enforce your boundaries. And that isn't a game that is demanding respect.*
> 
> And the thermostat loosely speaking means: Don't crowd your partner emotionally. Don't be needy. It is a turn off.
> 
> ...


Yes. I agree.




Our boundaries are there to protect our Golden Values and our Golden Rules. These are what form the very foundation of our psyche and from that foundation comes all our external behaviour in life. All that we do, all that motivates us to do what we do. Our Golden Values and Rules form the very core of our own unique and very individual belief system and our boundaries are there to protect our belief system.

So by not respecting our boundaries our spouse is demonstrating a total and utter lack of respect for who we are at the very core of our psyche. It is tremendously disrespectful to trash another’s belief system. In marriages these things can be as bitter and resentful as a religious war. It can really be a clash of belief systems.

Once I became aware my wife did not respect my boundaries and therefore my core golden values and rules my marriage was over and done with no matter how much I loved her. Because I knew she’d have no problem, absolutely no conscience about hurting me again in the future as she’d hurt me in the past.

So yes. You can demand respect for who you are at the very core of you. It sure doesn’t mean, like in my case, that you are going to get it. But you will now know exactly where you stand and take the appropriate action. Or alternatively you can be a codependent.

It sure isn't a game.





The questions a man on his manning up journey should ask himself are “Do I have the balls to enforce my boundaries?”. “What is the best way to enforce my boundaries?”. “What are my boundaries, what is it about ME I want to protect?”. And that latter question leads to the question “What are my Golden Values, what are my Golden Rules, what is it I’m trying to protect?”. When you discover those things you will know a lot about who you are at your very core and you’ll no longer compromise your golden values and golden rules of your life.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Halien said:


> I think you are looking at 'demanding respect' from the POV of a person who is elevated, or wants to be elevated above the other. Sure, not possible. But if your needs and interests are constantly put on the backburner for your spouse, then you can demand equal respect in the sense that you expect the partner to give your needs equal consideration. You expect to be treated with the same respect that you give. Still demanding. Respect here is the careful consideration of the other person's needs and desires.
> 
> Often, the one who is not respecting their spouse doesn't even realize it. They live in a world of one, their self, and their own needs, assuming the spouse has the same exact needs. They give what they think the other one needs. If it is a man, you'll often see that they think that a great income should be enough for the wife. By putting her foot down, explaining that it is no longer acceptable to her that he would expect sex without a bare minimum of quality time, she is demanding his respect.


Demanding is "treat me this way or else" and the or else is what makes the person react differently out of fear. It isn't real respect. 
I couldn't demand respect out of my husband/kids. Sure, I could yell a lot and order them around but what would happen behind my back? Anger, hatred, couldn't wait to leave the house, etc.
Commanding respect is totally different. That is acting in a way that makes you respectable. Demanding is the exact opposite of that. It is about fear tactics, threats and intimidation.
I really hope Mem meant command.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> How can anybody demand respect? Did you mean command respect?
> Not saying ILY and holding back to illicit a response from her sounds manipulative. How would that be different than a woman who withholds sex to get what she wants?
> What am I missing here MEM? :scratchhead:



I don't see it (or intend it when I do this) as manipulative. Rather, it is giving my wife the opportunity to engage in the work of the relationship. Part of a relationship is making sure your partner knows that they are loved, wanted and desired. Many of the ways I do this are by telling her I love her, hugging her, touching her, doing things for her. If I continually do that, and don’t give her the opportunity to engage in that behavior on her own, I am lessening her as a partner. She does not have the opportunity (or at least has less of an opportunity) to work with me and beside me on the relationship. People take more pride in something when they have worked to earn it, rather than if it is just given to them. Just as I need to work on the relationship, I need to make sure that my wife has the opportunity to put in the work as well. I believe this is better for both of us.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Demanding is "treat me this way or else" and the or else is what makes the person react differently out of fear. It isn't real respect.
> I couldn't demand respect out of my husband/kids. Sure, I could yell a lot and order them around but what would happen behind my back? Anger, hatred, couldn't wait to leave the house, etc.
> Commanding respect is totally different. That is acting in a way that makes you respectable. Demanding is the exact opposite of that. It is about fear tactics, threats and intimidation.
> I really hope Mem meant command.


My wife demands respect from me and the kids and it hasn't worked well for her at all. I have been able to gain the respect of our oldest son by being respectful and affectionate to him and modeling and encouraging the behavior I would like to see from him. My wife has a fit over this, bemoaning the situation and claiming that I influence him to be disrespectful to her. I nicely explain to her that if she wants to have what I have, she needs to do what I do or at least something equivalent. 

She is pretty much not taking to direction and I think she feels that she loses face if she takes suggestions from me, but I see her directly copying some of my actions and it has made our household a lot better for everyone, I couldn't be happier


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> How can anybody demand respect? Did you mean command respect?
> Not saying ILY and holding back to illicit a response from her sounds manipulative. How would that be different than a woman who withholds sex to get what she wants?
> What am I missing here MEM? :scratchhead:


Respectfully, you're perspective simply is not coming from the same place.

Work with me;

I'm married. I love my wife. Adore her. I love to send her mushy cards every week declaring my feelings for her. That's who I am. I'm a mushy card person.

My wife used to go wild for this. But over time, I just don't get the feeling that she feels as deeply about the mushy cards as I do. Where way back when she used to light up, smile, and throw her arms around me, now she just smiles and says "I'm sweet." then goes about her business.

Lately, I've been finding the cards unopened.

But I love her, and by golly, I'm going to send her those cards twice a week now, to make it absolutely clear to her how much I truly and deeply love her. I wonder why she has never sent me a card? Oh, who cares. I love her, and I love sending her those mushy cards.


Does that make MEM's statement of 'giving her space to love me back' more clear?
Paying attention to what your spouse does, and does not respond well to, I simply do not see as manipulation. Certainly not in the context you outline. Striking emotional symmetry for the relationship means fostering 'good' things. By it's very nature that means there will be things you choose to do more of, to foster positive outcomes, and things you do less of, to minimize or avoid negative outcomes.

In the little parable above, 'I' am being selfish ... and stupid. I am putting my need to express myself and my feelings above, and in conflict with the emotional outcome that I want to foster with my wife.
So what would you suggest? Stay emotionally true to myself and keep sending those mushy cards, and eventually come to blame and resent my wife for not reciprocating? 
Or should I be smart enough to recognize what does, and does not trigger or elicit positive emotional responses in the woman I love.

If folks see that as game playing, then all I have to say is ... Game on, baby.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That isn't demanding though, that is commanding. You simply cannot demand anyone to respect another human being. You can however act in a way that makes others respect you, i.e, commanding respect.
> If you are demanding respect, you are a dictator and the lesser beings only show respect out of fear.
> Bottom line, respect is earned.....it isn't demanded.
> I think MEM meant command not demand. I hope.


It is demanding though. The way I see it these are two distinct things:
You command respect or you don't
You demand respect or you don't. 

Commanding respect is what happens when you are respectable. You behave with respect and thus the default assumption becomes that you will be treated with respect. 
Regardless of whether you command respect, you can still demand respect. You probably won't get any unless you actually do command respect, but that's a separate issue. What I was getting at with my original comment is that you should demand respect by commanding respect. When you refuse to tolerate the disrespectable the respect you command becomes the respect you demand. 

"I said good day, sir!"


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Demanding is "treat me this way or else" and the or else is what makes the person react differently out of fear. It isn't real respect.
> I couldn't demand respect out of my husband/kids. Sure, I could yell a lot and order them around but what would happen behind my back? Anger, hatred, couldn't wait to leave the house, etc.
> Commanding respect is totally different. That is acting in a way that makes you respectable. Demanding is the exact opposite of that. It is about fear tactics, threats and intimidation.
> I really hope Mem meant command.


Still, I'm suggesting that you are looking at command/demand from the POV of the spouse who will always respond in a conscientious way. 

What I was trying to suggest is that some of these manning up actions need to take place because the spouse only sees one way of relating to you; their way. If you enter into a relationship with an attitude of respect for the other, though, you will assess your partner's needs in a way that recognizes that their needs may be completely different than you would normally think. Respect means putting the time into them to learn them, and what makes them tick. The partner may be behaving in a way that commands respect, but that doesn't mean that you'll treat them with respect. May be laziness, or it may just be because the spouse just doesn't get it, but a partner sometimes doesn't respect the other, even though they deserve it. Then, the invisible partner could ultimately force a reset on the marriage, saying that they will no longer accept the status quo. In these cases, manning up is more about shaking up the status quo, but the goal should be mutual respect.


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

Believe it was Dalrock who said that if a man was just 1, 5 or even 50 failed fitness tests from losing his wife, she isn't really his wife anymore. Though he used a much more graphic word than I would use, the point stands. This is where chillymorn is coming from: he's manning up and his wife is still fitness testing the crap out of him and he's just tired of constantly having to survive them. So as deejo says, the manning up and seeing the wife not change may lead to realizing that the wife has to be let go.

Regarding respect, in order to "demand" respect, one must be able to "command" respect to begin with. Only when one is able to command respect can he demand respect. If that respect isn't forthcoming in the face of legitimate command then demand, then it's probably time to consider separation since the spouse is holding too much contempt to give respect. This aspect of being able to command respect really means working on oneself first because the ability to command respect must come from within, it's not just a bunch of words... For the PC among you, the terms he/she and husband/wife in this paragraph are interchangeable.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bright,
I attempt to do all the basic stuff that "earns" me respect. All the stuff that causes me to respect OTHER people. 

But when I have done that and someone is blatantly disrespectful then I let them choose to either:
- Stop doing that and continue to interact with me OR
- Continue doing that and lose their ability to interact with me

That is demanding respect. I only do it when I have to. 




Therealbrighteyes said:


> That isn't demanding though, that is commanding. You simply cannot demand anyone to respect another human being. You can however act in a way that makes others respect you, i.e, commanding respect.
> If you are demanding respect, you are a dictator and the lesser beings only show respect out of fear.
> Bottom line, respect is earned.....it isn't demanded.
> I think MEM meant command not demand. I hope.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

ren said:


> It is demanding though. The way I see it these are two distinct things:
> You command respect or you don't
> You demand respect or you don't.
> 
> ...


Yes it is an end to tolerance of disrespectful behaviour. In my case the categorical, uncompromising end to my tolerance and understanding of my wife’s passive aggressive behaviour. It helps if you’ve previously decided it’s the hill you will die to your wife and therefore your marriage on.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Zzyzx said:


> Believe it was Dalrock who said that if a man was just 1, 5 or even 50 failed fitness tests from losing his wife, she isn't really his wife anymore. Though he used a much more graphic word than I would use, the point stands. This is where chillymorn is coming from: he's manning up and his wife is still fitness testing the crap out of him and he's just tired of constantly having to survive them. So as deejo says, the manning up and seeing the wife not change may lead to realizing that the wife has to be let go.
> 
> Regarding respect, in order to "demand" respect, one must be able to "command" respect to begin with. Only when one is able to command respect can he demand respect. *If that respect isn't forthcoming in the face of legitimate command then demand, then it's probably time to consider separation since the spouse is holding too much contempt to give respect.* This aspect of being able to command respect really means working on oneself first because the ability to command respect must come from within, it's not just a bunch of words... For the PC among you, the terms he/she and husband/wife in this paragraph are interchangeable.


Spot on. But we don’t find that out (bolded) until after we have demanded respect for our boundaries. If that respect of our boundaries is not forthcoming then we know in no uncertain terms that our wife no longer respects us and does indeed hold us in contempt and the reason wont matter. In my case if my wife respected my new boundaries it would have put an end to her passive aggressive behaviour and she couldn’t handle that. I would never have found that out and just how deeply held within her psyche these things are if I didn’t demand respect for my boundaries.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> do you think all marriage eventually turn into this or are there marriages where both people are givers and reasonable and have the ability to police themselves. to realise when things are out of balance and then on their own try to be a good partner and fix the imbalance without having to play silly games.


Very very rare....


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That isn't demanding though, that is commanding. You simply cannot demand anyone to respect another human being. You can however act in a way that makes others respect you, i.e, commanding respect.
> If you are demanding respect, you are a dictator and the lesser beings only show respect out of fear.
> Bottom line, respect is earned.....it isn't demanded.
> I think MEM meant command not demand. I hope.


I think you're blurring the line between respect and deference. You can force someone to defer to you, if you are prepared to use enough power / aggression / whatever - essentially force someone to do what you tell them under threat. 

When someone respects you, they do what you want out of a realisation that it's the right thing to do. 

With the former, you can force the issue - force them to defer to you. With the latter, you can build what the other person _ought to_ respect, but they have to decide to respect it for themselves. The example you set should (may?) help, but it's like the "change yourself to see a change in others" idea. You can be what you respect, and by showing it, set the tone for the other person, but they have to decide to respect you for themselves.

If they don't, you can't make them. You can force them to do what you want, or walk and find someone who does respect you and what you stand for.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> I think you're blurring the line between respect and deference. You can force someone to defer to you, if you are prepared to use enough power / aggression / whatever - essentially force someone to do what you tell them under threat.
> 
> When someone respects you, they do what you want out of a realisation that it's the right thing to do.
> 
> ...


Takes courage that. Well said.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Takes courage that. Well said.


Thanks. I think that is the only way. You can't "make" someone respect you - only they can make _themselves_ do that. This applies to getting respect in any circumstance, not just a marriage.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

stillme4you said:


> Very very rare....


your probly right. Isn't it a shame.


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