# I'm not happy with who I am anymore...



## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So I started a thread in the Sex in Marriage forum but now I feel I need to change to the Mental Health forum. 

My wife and I have had our normal issues, arguing about finances, kids, sex, etc. About a year or so ago, we had a huge blowup and she wanted to leave and I begged her not to and that we would work things out. We started going to couples counseling and we would take two steps forward and three back. We would find something that seemed to work and then life would come in and we would be off track again. 

I then started to talk to my PCP and explained that I was having anxiety about what was going on at home because I never figure out how much wife was feeling and how sometimes I got that impression that she wouldn't be there when I got home. This then caused me to feel depressed. My doctor first put me on generic Lexapro and after having sexual issues with it switched me to Wellbutrin. That worked better than the Lexapro but I still had some sexual issues along with I didn't feel it was helping the anxiety. I mentioned this to them again and they suggested Venlafaxine and now the sexual issues are better for the most part. I do have an appointment next Monday with a psychiatrist to discuss where to go from here. 

I've still been having the anxiety and depression with the medication and it got to the point Friday night where I felt like I wanted to end my life. I was talking to my wife Saturday night and mentioned this to her. She's been distant since then and I've tried explaining to her that it would be a huge help to hear that we will get through this together and that she will be there for me. He response was that she had to watch out for the safety of herself and the kids first. Sunday morning she told me that she didn't sleep much Saturday night because she was worried for herself. 

Where do I go from here? I'm completely lost for the most part.....


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

ZDog377 said:


> He response was that she had to watch out for the safety of herself and the kids first. Sunday morning she told me that she didn't sleep much Saturday night because she was worried for herself.


It became about her? Does she always lack empathy or is this new?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your talk of suicide scared her. When you talk to your psychiatrist, ask him about individual counseling to help you with codependence on your wife. I do hope you find some help as it is obvious you are in much pain. I'm so sorry.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> It became about her? Does she always lack empathy or is this new?


Yeah, it pretty much became about her. She finally let me hold her last night, but she slept in her side of the bed Saturday night. I feel her lack of empathy has gotten worse but maybe I'm just overanalyzing things.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Your talk of suicide scared her. When you talk to your psychiatrist, ask him about individual counseling to help you with codependence on your wife. I do hope you find some help as it is obvious you are in much pain. I'm so sorry.


I have been doing some individual counseling already with our couples counselor. I understand that she was scared, but it doesn't take much to try and comfort someone in this situation, let alone a spouse. Any time I've been around her and she's been hurt I've put my arms around her until she was done crying.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Try Zoloft for anxiety. Discuss that with your PCP tomorrow. Wellbutrin had strong side effects for me. It works with dopamine not serotonin. Zoloft is an SSRI. Works good for me. 

Use a different therapist for your IC. Not same as the couples counseling.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

How recently did you switch medications? Suicidal thoughts are a common side effect of these types of medications during the initial adjustment period. 

Have you explicitly told her what you want or need from her? It can be difficult for the spouse of a depressed or anxious person to know what to do during a down period. Especially if you've previously been very stoic and never really needed a shoulder to lean on. Sometimes that comes out as awkwardness from the spouse or just a total lack of any action at all. 

I know the first time I had a breakdown in front of my husband he didn't know what to do. I don't think he knew I had feelings. I certainly never showed them to anyone. 

If you have told her what you want and she refuses to provide it, that is a different issue.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

kag123 said:


> How recently did you switch medications? Suicidal thoughts are a common side effect of these types of medications during the initial adjustment period.
> 
> Have you explicitly told her what you want or need from her? It can be difficult for the spouse of a depressed or anxious person to know what to do during a down period. Especially if you've previously been very stoic and never really needed a shoulder to lean on. Sometimes that comes out as awkwardness from the spouse or just a total lack of any action at all.
> 
> ...


I've been on this one for almost a month now. I have told her many times what I wanted both in the relationship and this past Saturday night when I told her about the suicidal thoughts. I've told her I constantly feel like just a room mate. I don't feel desired anymore. I'm the one managing all the bills and almost everything else in the house. I do all the laundry, she just has to fold it.

This past Saturday I did all the talking and she pretty much laid there. I told her that I don't feel like I got any support from her and all I wanted her to do was lay next to me and tell me that we would get through this together.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Z, she may not be able to meet your needs. I think both her words and actions are telling you this.

She told you a year and a half ago she wanted to leave? And you begged her not to?

Did you mention that in your original thread?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

jld said:


> Z, she may not be able to meet your needs. I think both her words and actions are telling you this.
> 
> She told you a year and a half ago she wanted to leave? And you begged her not to?
> 
> Did you mention that in your original thread?


It was more of an argument back and forth. I told her to leave and she said fine. I then told her I was frustrated and really didn't mean it and really wanted her to stay. 

She told me last night that she is going to individual counseling tonight because she realized she had some things to work on as well. She said it does other her that she has no desire for intimacy. 

I'm considering writing her a letter just so I can get things out there.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Z, I am saying this gently.

Nothing has changed because you have changed nothing.

You keep going to her and telling her you want her to change, rather than bettering yourself and letting that influence her (or not).

If you want change, it starts with you.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Z, I am saying this gently.
> 
> Nothing has changed because you have changed nothing.
> 
> ...


I'm trying and I know it's not going to happen overnight. She's glad that I'm going to the doctors and hopefully getting on the right track. I think that's led her to go to counseling by herself tonight. I've started working on more things in the house and watching YouTube videos to learn.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What do you love about yourself, Z?


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Been there and done that. I am now on Xanax and Wellbutrin and all is great again. I no longer dwell on negative thoughts or worry about things that may remotely occur. I sleep like a baby and my wife loves the new me. I resisted taking antidepressants for a very long time. I also had PSTD and would attack my wife in the middle of the night or if she tried to wake me up. When I saw her hiding behind a pillow to wake me up for work it broke my heart. When I sat up during the night and woke up right before I punched her so that I moved my fist from her face to her forehead at the last moment, I knew I needed help. Getting my doctors involved was the best thing I did. This was very early in my marriage since I met my wife less than a year after coming back from Vietnam. Since then life and my marriage has been great. The only pain in the neck was finding an antidepressant that worked and which did not take away my sex life, a common side effed of AD drugs and why many stop taking them. Life without sex made me more depressed. The worst part was that you had to give each new drug at least 6 weeks before you could determine if they worked or not so it took me over a year to find what was not the best but good enough without interfering with my sex life. Do what you have to do because I went on to have a very successful career and a very happy 44+ year marriage.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> What do you love about yourself, Z?


Physically - not much

Emotionally - I'm a hard worker, I like to make the people around me happy

Her visit to counseling last night seemed to be semi-productive. She was told that her reaction to my suicidal thoughts was justified. Also, she told my wife she needs to set boundaries. I'm going to have a session with the counselor on Monday as well.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Z, what do you do well?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Z, what do you do well?


Provide for my family, service customers at my job, love my family and friends


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

ZDog377 said:


> Yeah, it pretty much became about her. She finally let me hold her last night, but she slept in her side of the bed Saturday night. I feel her lack of empathy has gotten worse but maybe I'm just overanalyzing things.


It sounds like she's scared. Maybe she's afraid of you doing something to yourself and is pulling away to protect herself. 

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> It sounds like she's scared. Maybe she's afraid of you doing something to yourself and is pulling away to protect herself.
> 
> Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk


Go read his other thread, it is much more involved than what you posted.

Look Z, keep talking and getting counseling. What you have to learn is, you control your own happiness. All the drugs in the world won't help if you do everything just to keep her around. You need to change because YOU don't like the anxiety and depression you feel. You can't tie your happiness to pleasing her. This is why people fail at many things, they do it strictly for others and lose themselves in the process.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Go read his other thread, it is much more involved than what you posted.
> 
> Look Z, keep talking and getting counseling. What you have to learn is, you control your own happiness. All the drugs in the world won't help if you do everything just to keep her around. You need to change because YOU don't like the anxiety and depression you feel. You can't tie your happiness to pleasing her. This is why people fail at many things, they do it strictly for others and lose themselves in the process.


That's why I'm doing the counseling and that stuff. I don't like thr way I feel now. It seems her and I are talking more now so that is helping as well. She said last night I am too clingy which I as I I am going to try and work on. I thought asking questions about her day and where she was going and stuff was just being caring.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ZDog377 said:


> That's why I'm doing the counseling and that stuff. I don't like thr way I feel now. It seems her and I are talking more now so that is helping as well. She said last night I am too clingy which I as I I am going to try and work on. I thought asking questions about her day and where she was going and stuff was just being caring.


Depends on your motive. She can sense it.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

This weekend will be interesting. I let her do her thing today and only sent her a text when I had time to talk. If she didn't call, no loss on my end. It is sort of relaxing in a way not getting all worked up about where she is and stuff anymore. Hopefully I can continue this way...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You can by working on your own end. Also, just work on your issues. You can't get out of your dark thoughts if you let her negativity weigh you down. Your situations is completely different and it shouldn't matter to you what she can sense.. Calling someone clingy after being deprived of physical, sexual and emotional contact for years is disingenuous. Follow your counselors advice even if it means addressing "clingy" falls further down the list. The last thing you want to do is add more issues to fix because your list will never end. Deal with one or two issues at a time at your doctor's behest.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

ZDog377 said:


> This weekend will be interesting. I let her do her thing today and only sent her a text when I had time to talk. If she didn't call, no loss on my end. It is sort of relaxing in a way not getting all worked up about where she is and stuff anymore. Hopefully I can continue this way...


That's great! Everyday, do one thing...even if it's small...that takes you out of your comfort zone. I have been reading a book about that, and I've been following it too, and life is really beautiful when you don't live so guarded, and worried about things that likely will never happen.  ((hug)) You can do this.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You can by working on your own end. Also, just work on your issues. You can't get out of your dark thoughts if you let her negativity weigh you down. Your situations is completely different and it shouldn't matter to you what she can sense.. Calling someone clingy after being deprived of physical, sexual and emotional contact for years is disingenuous. Follow your counselors advice even if it means addressing "clingy" falls further down the list. The last thing you want to do is add more issues to fix because your list will never end. Deal with one or two issues at a time at your doctor's behest.


I believe she is going to counseling with me Monday but not to the psychiatrist. I've wrote her a letter that I'm going to read to her on Monday. The counselor said she can be there for support but she is not to do anything but listen. I'm just still trying to wrap my head around her having no desire for intimacy at all. She says she is still in love with me though. I asked her about the kids and she said the sex had a purpose then.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some just have very little (or no) desire for intimacy. Most of the time nothing changes that. It's who they are. Your thread in SIM was one of many such threads. 

A few will make a sustained effort to overcome that disinterest (which may or may not succeed) but the truth is that most will remain the way they've always been. And if they aren't willing to make that effort then there are the usual two choices for the spouse who wants intimacy. 

In a perfect world, "like" would marry "like" and everything would work out. In the real world, that's often not the case. Unfortunately.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Well, first counseling session was a bust. I thought with all the stuff going on it would be a more positive experience. Just got told all of the things I need to work on instead. I didn't even get to read the letter I spent probably an hour and a half on. I'm tired of trying to express my feeligs. Just keeping them bottled up from now on. Into the trash it goes....


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> This weekend will be interesting. I let her do her thing today and only sent her a text when I had time to talk. If she didn't call, no loss on my end. It is sort of relaxing in a way not getting all worked up about where she is and stuff anymore. Hopefully I can continue this way...


When you said that it was “sort of relaxing,” this is exactly what many of us have been telling you. What happened was that you calmed down. When you are focused on someone or something that you have no control over and are wrapped up in wanting something that you have no way to get from her, you are not relaxed or at peace. What you did was you let go and you had peace.

This is what it means to relax and to calm down. It means to stop obsessing over things that you cannot control and to peacefully deal with your own responsibilities.



ZDog377 said:


> Well, first counseling session was a bust. I thought with all the stuff going on it would be a more positive experience. Just got told all of the things I need to work on instead. I didn't even get to read the letter I spent probably an hour and a half on. I'm tired of trying to express my feeligs. Just keeping them bottled up from now on. Into the trash it goes....


You wanted to read her a letter because you don’t feel heard and you think if she finally hears you she will make the necessary changes, because she says she loves you. I get that and know that you are in pain, but your conclusion is wrong. She has already heard you and she is not willing to make those changes.

If you had read her the letter you would feel even worse than you do now, because she would reject what you said. She would tell you that it was your fault and your problem in some way and turn it all back to you again. This is probably one of the reasons why you are struggling in general. Because you think she holds the key to your happiness and if only she understood that she would do what it takes to make you happy.

But that is a lie you are believing. The key to your happiness is not with your wife. It is with you. You hold the key to your happiness. That is why we keep telling you to stop trying to get your wife to do things and to focus on your own responsibilities only.
On the flip side, you can relax about trying to make your wife happy. It is not within your power to make her happy, so stop trying. Treat her with love, kindness, patience, and peace, but do not try to make her happy. You can do nice things for her when you want to, but only when you actually want to. And stop doing things for her that she ought to be doing for herself. Why on earth are you doing her laundry? Stop that. Do not do another load of her laundry. Just stop.

Yes, do the kid’s laundry and your own laundry as you usually do, but when you are doing for her what she ought to be doing for herself, you are enabling her selfishness and fostering a codependent environment. Stop doing anything for her. If it is something that you or the kids also need, then it’s not only for her. But if it’s something that is specific to her, like her laundry, don’t spend another minute on it. You handle your own responsibilities and she handles hers. It’s okay.

This doesn’t mean you take an attitude about it. Not at all. This is not a punishment or trying to teach her a lesson. This is you handling your responsibilities and not doing for her what she ought to be doing for herself.

Your relationship is out of balance. Relax and focus on what you’re supposed to be doing. Stop focusing on what you think she should be doing. It will take pressure off both of you. Hopefully this will bring about some peace in your home and in your heart.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Z, all of us can see that you have some issues that need to be addressed. Most of them center around codependency.

That said, I want to focus for just a moment on your wife. She has over $100,000 in student loans that she is just... Ignoring. Who does that? What does it say about her character? What does it say about her ability to deal with problems?

You trying to demand or exact change from your wife is trying to get blood from a turnip.

So, now you know she won't change. What are YOU going to do about it?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Z,

There is a pretty noticeable difference between engagement that is outwardly focused, and engagement that is self focused. 

For example:
Z2: I'm going out for a while
Z: Have a good time, drive safely

Vs
Z2: I'm going out for a while
Z: Where are you going?
Z2: To run some errands. 
Z: When will you be back?

Same thing - if she gets home later than you expected. The comments below - create a high cling factor. 

Where did you go? Or: You were gone a lot longer than I expected.




ZDog377 said:


> That's why I'm doing the counseling and that stuff. I don't like thr way I feel now. It seems her and I are talking more now so that is helping as well. She said last night I am too clingy which I as I I am going to try and work on. I thought asking questions about her day and where she was going and stuff was just being caring.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Z,

There is a pretty noticeable difference between engagement that is outwardly focused, and engagement that is self focused. 

For example:
Z2: I'm going out for a while
Z: Have a good time, drive safely

Vs
Z2: I'm going out for a while
Z: Where are you going?
Z2: To run some errands?
Z: When will you be back?

Same thing - if she gets home later than you expected. The comments below - create a high cling factor. 

Where did you go? Or: You were gone a lot longer than I expected.




ZDog377 said:


> That's why I'm doing the counseling and that stuff. I don't like thr way I feel now. It seems her and I are talking more now so that is helping as well. She said last night I am too clingy which I as I I am going to try and work on. I thought asking questions about her day and where she was going and stuff was just being caring.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

MEM2020 said:


> Z,
> 
> There is a pretty noticeable difference between engagement that is outwardly focused, and engagement that is self focused.
> 
> ...


 @MEM2020...I realize now what I was doing. However, it used to be she gave those details out without me even asking. Now she's asking like they're classified material. Just like the other day, I asked her what her work schedule was for the week. Her response? What does it matter, it can change. I do know I definitely need to work on being clingy though.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> When you said that it was “sort of relaxing,” this is exactly what many of us have been telling you. What happened was that you calmed down. When you are focused on someone or something that you have no control over and are wrapped up in wanting something that you have no way to get from her, you are not relaxed or at peace. What you did was you let go and you had peace.
> 
> This is what it means to relax and to calm down. It means to stop obsessing over things that you cannot control and to peacefully deal with your own responsibilities.
> 
> ...


I don't feel the laundry deal is bad, all the clothes are sorted and I just put them in the washer/dryer and then she folds them when I bring the basket back upstairs. I do agree I need to calm down more, I'm out of town again this week so hopefully I can relax some more.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Z, all of us can see that you have some issues that need to be addressed. Most of them center around codependency.
> 
> That said, I want to focus for just a moment on your wife. She has over $100,000 in student loans that she is just... Ignoring. Who does that? What does it say about her character? What does it say about her ability to deal with problems?
> 
> ...


If talk matters into my own hands as far as debt goes. I've told her that just about the entire tax refund is going to pay off debt. I'm going to start on that tonight. I know that she's impulsive and that creates a lot of problems, at least financially. 

Also, I'm the session on Monday morning the therapist told us we both have codependency issues that we need to work on. The afternoon session for my individual counseling was much better because I'm going to someone new who has a fresh view on things.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> I don't feel the laundry deal is bad, all the clothes are sorted and I just put them in the washer/dryer and then she folds them when I bring the basket back upstairs. I do agree I need to calm down more, I'm out of town again this week so hopefully I can relax some more.


If it is a mutual chore and she is holding up her end, that's one thing, but if it's something you are doing for her that she ought to be doing for herself, that's another thing entirely. That was my point. Maybe the laundry is something that is an example of something that's working. How can this become the norm?

I'm glad you are in therapy and hope that it helps you to move forward into a more positive mindset. You have tremendous value to your family whether you can see that right now or not. I hope therapy helps you to recognize that.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Here is the one thing that I've been struggling with for the past week or so. So I've given her "space" and let her do what she wants and wait for her to call me and that stuff that she says she needs. I've kept all my emotions about how I feel used and lied to all to myself. The hard part is, it's pushed me away even more. I'm expected to reciprocate when she wants to hug and kiss though, even though she's allowed to tell me she doesn't like it when I do it. We have sex, but it's so emotionless it's almost not worth it anymore.....


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Compatibility, Z.

You are a zebra who thought he married another zebra. She has shown herself to be a horse, and you can't figure out why she doesn't have stripes.

You keep expecting high character from her. I don't know that she is capable.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Compatibility, Z.
> 
> You are a zebra who thought he married another zebra. She has shown herself to be a horse, and you can't figure out why she doesn't have stripes.
> 
> You keep expecting high character from her. I don't know that she is capable.


What do you mean by high character?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> What do you mean by high character?


Someone who demonstrates generosity, compassion, reciprocity, and shows care for others as well as herself.

Oh, and one who is not ignoring $150K in student loans.

Your wife is just fine when things are on her terms. Funny, that.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Someone who demonstrates generosity, compassion, reciprocity, and shows care for others as well as herself.
> 
> Oh, and one who is not ignoring $150K in student loans.
> 
> Your wife is just fine when things are on her terms. Funny, that.


:iagree:
Why would she want to change? She has gotten herself into a position where her life is very convenient. She knows if you leave her it will hurt you more than it will hurt her.

If you are going to stay in relationship with her, there are things you can do to make it more comfortable for you, but you are not going to get the love and respect that you want from her. She doesn't have it. You can't get from her what she doesn't have to give.

Maybe if you were to let go of the marriage and hope of a unified, loving relationship with your wife, but transition into more of a business relationship until you are ready to divorce, you can grieve what you have lost, begin to heal, find healthier ways of caring for yourself and your children, and moving forward to health without worrying about whether she is with you. You know she's not, so you can move forward without trying to drag along an unwilling participant.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> :iagree:
> Why would she want to change? She has gotten herself into a position where her life is very convenient. She knows if you leave her it will hurt you more than it will hurt her.
> 
> If you are going to stay in relationship with her, there are things you can do to make it more comfortable for you, but you are not going to get the love and respect that you want from her. She doesn't have it. You can't get from her what she doesn't have to give.
> ...


It already feels like a business relationship. In exchange for services of x, I'll let you sleep in the same bed and have sex now and then. I asked some very pointed questions to her last night and got the responses I pretty much expected. This new counselor we are seeing on Saturday is pretty much my last ditch effort. We both agreed we weren't thrilled with the previous counselor.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> It already feels like a business relationship. In exchange for services of x, I'll let you sleep in the same bed and have sex now and then. I asked some very pointed questions to her last night and got the responses I pretty much expected. This new counselor we are seeing on Saturday is pretty much my last ditch effort. We both agreed we weren't thrilled with the previous counselor.


You know what? It's okay. It's okay that she is this way. Your life may feel like it revolves around her, but seriously, Dog, it does not. She is not your life and your breath. She is your wife, but she doesn't seem understand that the way you do. I seriously doubt this new counselor is going to help. If you two aren't on the same page as to what your goals are and what you want out of life and marriage, you will not be able to resolve these issues. You have different world views. Her world view has to do with expecting you to finance her life while she does whatever she damn well pleases. Unless she has a change of heart, that is who you are dealing with, counselor or no counselor.

And that is okay, because like I said, your world doesn't revolve around her. Detach and learn to live your life to the fullest.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Sorry for two posts in a row. I've been thinking about you and your situation. 

I want to encourage you that you don't need your wife to comply with what you believe is right in order for you to be happy. You have everything you need to be happy without your wife's help. You have everything you need to be healthy without your wife's help.

You travel extensively. This should be a great help to you. Think about developing some hobbies that you can take with you or start reading the classics to expand your mind and your understanding.

Have you gotten into a workout routine? You should be able to join a health club, like Planet Fitness or LA Fitness or 24 Hour Fitness. Something that would be in most cities you visit. Or you can workout in the hotel. Most hotels these days have a reasonably appointed fitness room.

Start doing things to build yourself and to grow and prosper, not only financially, but in your soul. Feed your soul and your spirit with things that uplift and inspire you. You do not need your wife's cooperation for any of that, but it is a good way to get started in feeling like you can breath and move without your wife's cooperation. Use your time away to get some air and grow.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Z, I practice Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Every decent sized city I travel to for work (say 50K and over) has a BJJ school. There are some schools, like the one in Chattanooga, that welcome me like family, right before they try to choke me out on the mat... 

The point is that Cynthia is right. Find a hobby that travels well.

BTW, I am not an expert. I started approximately 1 year ago.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Sorry for two posts in a row. I've been thinking about you and your situation.
> 
> I want to encourage you that you don't need your wife to comply with what you believe is right in order for you to be happy. You have everything you need to be happy without your wife's help. You have everything you need to be healthy without your wife's help.
> 
> ...


I definitely like reading, I'm always picking books up from the library. I've been looking at some hobbies to start at home, at least that will get my mind off things. Like I said earlier, I'm starting to detach from wanting to spend time with her. I am starting to spend more time with the younger two and sometimes even the older one. I think I'm pretty much done with trying to figure things out, I'm just going to let whatever happens, happen. After seeing some things this evening, I've finally realized she doesn't have it in her to change...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Z,

There are a short list of phrases we (me, Far, others have found useful - ESPECIALLY in conflict and/or counseling). But they ONLY WORK if you remain calm and in control of your own emotions:
1. I'm sorry you feel that way
2. I don't see it that way
3. I'm not ok with that 

Two and three - may produce a challenge - which can be good. 

For instance - the response to (2) might be: What do you mean? 

My reaction is solely based on - M2's affect. If she has moved into an adversarial stance, which she rarely does anymore: I say. I am not willing to debate this - this isn't a contest to me. If you seek comprehension, I will speak, if instead you wish to compete, to win, I don't believe you will be able to hear me. And then I shut the heck up and wait until she decides what she's trying to achieve. Connection or conquest. 

Watch what happens if she doubles down: Well if you refuse to explain yourself we aren't going to get anywhere. (Which is code for - I want to fight - so man the **** up and get in the ring). 

And my response to that is: Let's revisit this when it feels like the focus is on comprehension, not conquest. 

(3) Is easier. If asked: What does that mean? The answer is simple: That pattern is pushing me away. 

Any resistance on this point - manipulation - pokes - insults is met with the following: For just a moment here, we are talking about me. About what matters to ME. I cannot stop you from doing X. Not even going to try. Just telling you that it is pushing me away. You don't get to decide now I 'should' react anymore than I get to do that in reverse. 

-------------
Z - sometimes your biggest issue is a lack of planning - you need to create a plan for the session. A plan - a message. 

Probably best to start with the truth - in summary: which is that the marriage is sick, and on a bad trajectory 

Good counselor will ask why? 

Your plan could have two parts but not three. Part one is what you believe your individual contribution to the bad state of the marriage is and what you plan to do about it. And part two could be what your combined dynamic is, how it isn't working. 

I wouldn't suggest how to fix that at this stage. Just lay out what is broken between the two of you. 

At this point, Z2 is going to be asked to contribute. No matter what she says - don't interrupt. Worst case - take notes and write down what you disagree with. Don't speak unless calm and if that means saying - I need a minute - don't hesitate to say so. 

You definitely want to describe your financial dynamic as tense and toxic. You do NOT want to say that Z2 is bad with money and pretends she has no student debt. 

You bring up the dynamic - let the counselor ask why - and then you ask Z2 to speak FIRST. DO not turn this into a point scoring activity or Z2 will hate you. She is already going to feel embarrassed. 

You gotta be supportive emotionally while firm on the mechanics of dealing with it. 

Example: It feels bad when we have debt I don't know about. It scares me, and that makes me angry. And it has eroded my trust in her. I wish I made more money, and that Z2 had taken on less student debt. But - for now - we have to deal with what we have. 

Avoid: Harsh, disrespectful judgements like: Z2 has lied to me repeatedly about spending money and has selfishly blown off her creditors. I don't trust her any more. 





ZDog377 said:


> I definitely like reading, I'm always picking books up from the library. I've been looking at some hobbies to start at home, at least that will get my mind off things. Like I said earlier, I'm starting to detach from wanting to spend time with her. I am starting to spend more time with the younger two and sometimes even the older one. I think I'm pretty much done with trying to figure things out, I'm just going to let whatever happens, happen. After seeing some things this evening, I've finally realized she doesn't have it in her to change...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Z,

I also love to read. A love of reading is a beautiful gift - even better when passed down to the next generation. 

Connection is often a magical combination of deep comprehension coupled with support and love. 

In therapy you might try something like this: We all struggle with desire, with impulse control - me with food, Z2 with money. 

No one expects you to accept the bad behavior - thing is - she won't let you help her if it feel adversarial. And it is way less likely to feel adversarial if you demonstrate that you understand the underlying driver. 





ZDog377 said:


> I definitely like reading, I'm always picking books up from the library. I've been looking at some hobbies to start at home, at least that will get my mind off things. Like I said earlier, I'm starting to detach from wanting to spend time with her. I am starting to spend more time with the younger two and sometimes even the older one. I think I'm pretty much done with trying to figure things out, I'm just going to let whatever happens, happen. After seeing some things this evening, I've finally realized she doesn't have it in her to change...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> I definitely like reading, I'm always picking books up from the library. I've been looking at some hobbies to start at home, at least that will get my mind off things. Like I said earlier, I'm starting to detach from wanting to spend time with her. I am starting to spend more time with the younger two and sometimes even the older one. I think I'm pretty much done with trying to figure things out, I'm just going to let whatever happens, happen. After seeing some things this evening, I've finally realized she doesn't have it in her to change...


You are beginning to look forward. That is excellent progress.

Even so, it's okay to grieve the loss of your marriage. It will help you move through it in a healthy way.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Just a quick update from this weekend. First appointment with the new therapist went well. She was very open in explaining her background and as of right now I like her better over the other one. Since it was the initial assessment we both explained our sides of things and she (therapist) told us what we were to work on for the next visit. We are to create a list of things we would like to see change in the marriage and then separate it into categories of deal breaker/no deal breaker. Z2 and I had a heart to heart later that night and she said that she would go get her levels checked to see if they were the cause of her desire issue. Baby steps is all I keep reminding myself.....

I've also found some cheaper online courses online that I can take to learn some more things.....


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What type of courses?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> What type of courses?


Courses in web design, business.....through udemy online.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If it pleases you and makes you a better Z, do it.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So I finally had my appointment with the psychiatrist yesterday. After talking for a little bit, she feels I have a mild form of bipolar. They are going to try supplementing the medication I am on now with neurontin three times a day and she will see me again in a month. I do have at least one appointment with the personal counselor before then. I'm glad that I finally have some idea of what's going on but at the same time I'm a little nervous. 

Z2 hasn't had much to say, she just wants to know what the prognosis is. We have our second appointment with the couples counselor tomorrow so we will see how that goes. Our biggest discussion lately has been the cruise that she wants to go ok with some of the money she gets from her aunt.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ask her how much will be left after she pays the SL debt.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Ask her how much will be left after she pays the SL debt.


She is saying it's ok because her aunt told her she wanted her to use some of the money to go on a family vacation.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> You have different world views. Her world view has to do with expecting you to finance her life while she does whatever she damn well pleases.


That hit like a ton of bricks, The OP and I have the very same problem in that respect. There's not much that can be done when you have a wife like that. I've been trying to fix things but am now coming to the realization that it really can't be done. Some who has no empathy for you or for anyone else can't be helped. Her world is herself, nothing more.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> That hit like a ton of bricks, The OP and I have the very same problem in that respect. There's not much that can be done when you have a wife like that. I've been trying to fix things but am now coming to the realization that it really can't be done. Some who has no empathy for you or for anyone else can't be helped. Her world is herself, nothing more.


I'll say her world is her and the kids. I'm very rarely if at all part of it.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> I'll say her world is her and the kids. I'm very rarely if at all part of it.


I know how you feel.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If she is already marginalizing you with the kids, may I ask what is the point of staying married? You can have a great relationship with your kids as a single father. You basically are that now. 

It sounds to me like she has already divorced you in heart and mind. You are nothing more than a glorified babysitter to her. You are not part of her circle anymore.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> If she is already marginalizing you with the kids, may I ask what is the point of staying married? You can have a great relationship with your kids as a single father. You basically are that now.
> 
> It sounds to me like she has already divorced you in heart and mind. You are nothing more than a glorified babysitter to her. You are not part of her circle anymore.


Honestly I don't know the answer to that. I'm trying to stay focused on making myself better right now and then I'll deal with her and I. I don't think a divorce would be the best mentally for me right now.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> Honestly I don't know the answer to that. I'm trying to stay focused on making myself better right now and then I'll deal with her and I. I don't think a divorce would be the best mentally for me right now.


That's a lot better than before. Focusing on being the best you can be and learning healthy boundaries will make you stronger and eventually you will deal with the marriage issues and will be ready to do whatever needs to be done. It's okay to not just jump into something. Even though things are difficult/bad now, divorce might end up being worse for you. Sometimes we get ourselves into such a position that going from survival mode in marriage is better than going completely under and unable to make ends meet.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

It's excellent news that you're in therapy and s/he is helping you bring some of these issues into focus. 

Therapy was a profoundly helpful experience for me. Although I no longer see her I continue to reap its benefits today. 

Good luck.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So after couples counseling today, I've realized that we are more than likely on the downhill slide towards divorce. She's completely void of emotion when I talk about needing support for my mental health issues. She says I'm using it as a crutch and she lost all compassion when I wouldn't get an at home job. I tried explaining things to her but she didn't want to hear it. I was having a hard time dealing with the diagnosis over the weekend and she said she wasn't going to have a "pity party" for me. It's almost like she's embarrassed that I have the diagnosis. She even mentioned to the counselor today that living in a duplex would be ideal and she also mentioned me getting a girl on the side again. 

We talked on the way home from counseling and she said that there still is passion in the marriage (don't know how), but not as much as when we started. I did mention that I'll never forget how much she hurt me the night I told her I was considering suicide and how her first thought was for her and the kids. Pretty much me talking again and her not saying anything. Par for the course lately it seems....


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm sorry ZDog that you're not being emotionally supported, but you cannot force her to care. Stop trying and seek other, healthier ways of having your emotional needs met. She is no longer an option for that, but you keep hoping and expecting it from her. That is making you feel worse and driving her further away. When you do that, you are showing her an emotionally needy man who cannot take care of her and the children. Some women can handle that, but others cannot. She obviously can't. 

You can do this. You have everything you need to have your needs met in healthy ways. We've discussed that here. Work on that and stop looking to her to have your needs met. She is not capable. Asking her to do it is like her asking you to be who she wants you to be. It doesn't work.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

I think I finally reached my breaking point after last night and printed out the divorce paperwork. She saw me putting it together and asked what it was. I told her it was the divorce paperwork and her response was "if that is what will make you happy". We have a counseling appointment Friday where I'm just going to say things for the last time and go from there. I'm not expecting much but at least I will feel better.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Her response is telling.

Move forward, Z.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

@farsidejunky, do you think a few months of separation would help at all?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Z, I don't know for certain. Nobody does.

I would ask this of you: Why separation?

Separation to me appears to be you still holding on to hope.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Z, I don't know for certain. Nobody does.
> 
> I would ask this of you: Why separation?
> 
> Separation to me appears to be you still holding on to hope.


She's actually the one that suggested separation. I've mentioned to her before that I think she takes things for granted and is only in this because she can still be "single" but have the necessities taken care of as well. I've talked to my dad about it and he said I can move back in any time. I know I have the support of all of my family no matter what happens. 

There is part of me I feel that is always going to have some hope that things will work out. I've finally crossed over to the point that I feel there is a greater chance of divorce than working things out. I look back and realize everything we have been through and I've been blessed with two amazing kids and I just can't understand how she wants to throw it away.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Z, those that want to find a way.

Those that do not want to find an excuse.

She does not want to. It really is as simple as that.

As for separation, maybe she would learn to miss you. The problem with that is when you move back in, she has to live with you again. I don't think she likes who you are, brother. I really don't. 

In fairness, I am biased. I would never do a separation. I would insist that we either work together to improve the marriage under the same roof, or we part ways. Please keep this in mind when considering my advice.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Separation may have a different meaning for her than it does for you. I'm speaking from experience 😁

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Playing devils advocate for a moment if you'll permit... She doesn't give a rats about your issues. They are your issues, after all. They are your responsibility. She may have had this expectation of a man all along. Meanwhile you were looking for someone more sympathetic and supportive. She's not that woman and you're not compatible, so why hold out hope, especially when a separation will likely reinforce to her that she doesn't want to deal with your issues? 

Get the help and awareness you need. You are your own best advocate.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't think there is any point in separation unless it is a therapeutic separation while the issues are being actively worked on. A therapeutic separation would be necessary if being together was making things worse, but both parties were extremely committed to working out the problems. Usually in this case it would be one person who had some major issues that needed serious work before s/he would be healthy to live with.

Your situation does not meet the criteria for what a therapeutic separation would be for. Your wife has shown no desire to work on her issues or to even admit that she has any issues. She seems to think that everything is your fault, despite you apparently doing everything you can on your part to remedy any of your personal issues.

Unfortunately it appears that your wife is done with the relationship. She seems to have zero interest in you beyond what you can do for her and the kids and it doesn't seem to matter to her if you have any kind of personal relationship with her. If you ask anything of her, she appears to consider it to be unfair and a waste of her time.

Sure you are a part of this situation and have made your share of mistakes, but it's not your fault that your wife is lazy and uncommitted to you. You have worked and tried to do whatever you can to fix it, but she has not been willing to do her part.

Please do not just roll over and giver her whatever she wants in the divorce. She needs to get a real job and she needs to be personally responsible for ALL of her student loans. Based on everything you have told us about her, I would expect that she will try to put off as much of her personal responsibility on you as possible. She may even see this divorce as a way to relieve herself of personal responsibility. Please do not enable her in that. Please do all you can to protect yourself.

Have you bought a book on divorce in your state and read through it a couple of times? If not, that would be a good next step.

I'm sorry it has come to this, but I think you will find yourself in a healthier state by making these steps to detach yourself from your wife.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't think there is any point in separation unless it is a therapeutic separation while the issues are being actively worked on. A therapeutic separation would be necessary if being together was making things worse, but both parties were extremely committed to working out the problems. Usually in this case it would be one person who had some major issues that needed serious work before s/he would be healthy to live with.
> 
> Your situation does not meet the criteria for what a therapeutic separation would be for. Your wife has shown no desire to work on her issues or to even admit that she has any issues. She seems to think that everything is your fault, despite you apparently doing everything you can on your part to remedy any of your personal issues.
> 
> ...


I haven't found a book on divorce yet, I've been trying to figure out if I should do a free consultation or not. She has finally admitted that she has some issues she needs to work on. She feels she has never truly dealt with the deaths of her dad, aunt, and grandmother. She feels the only way that will happen is with time.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You should still file.

"Wife, if the only way for you to admit that you could be a better wife is to get shown divorce papers, why would I want to actually consider working it out?"


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP
I regret to tell you but she is mentally a child. Reckless debt, inability to empathize, self centered, unable to cope with death and perhaps most telling is her willingness to allow the ebb and flow of life to toss her about like a jellyfish in the tide. Life is a fight from beginning to end. Her comment "if that is what will make you happy" is blatantly hypocritical, she has no concern about your happiness else she would be a better wife. She sees in separation the opportunity for freedom, to be single and care free while you take care of the "adult" aspects of life like the bills and watching the children.

You are somewhat immature as well but not nearly as much as she. You both need to see life for what it is and not the ride at Disneyworld you both seem to expect. She, I fear, is completely unable to do this so it falls to you, for the sake of the children, to be the grown up. You must face the harshness of life, as we all do and persevere through it. There are two young lives depending on you two, sadly she cannot be counted on to do her part so you must. Life does have good times and things can be better but I believe you will need to find your own inner strength and then find a mature, responsible woman to share it with. Good fortune to you.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It would be helpful to do a full psych evaluation for both. Z for existing reasons and Z2 because of this immaturity issue. She seems to believe too much in magical thinking, and I would really need to know if it's simply a choice rather than something more difficult to manage DIY.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> I haven't found a book on divorce yet, I've been trying to figure out if I should do a free consultation or not. She has finally admitted that she has some issues she needs to work on. She feels she has never truly dealt with the deaths of her dad, aunt, and grandmother. She feels the only way that will happen is with time.


I would read a book before talking to an attorney. That way you are not wasting your time asking a bunch of questions you could have the answers to already by reading up on the situation.

Time does not heal all wounds. Facing them and working through them is what brings healing. If your wife is unwilling to do the work, she will never heal.

I also agree with what @NoChoice said about your wife's maturity level. Some people never mature mentally and emotionally. They get stuck at a certain age for some reason or another and never grow after that. They operate with the mind of a child. The only way to remedy that is to make a concerted effort to change and grow. Your wife has given no indication that she is ready to do that.

You, on the other hand, have been making some progress. Keep it up.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

john117 said:


> It would be helpful to do a full psych evaluation for both. Z for existing reasons and Z2 because of this immaturity issue. She seems to believe too much in magical thinking, and I would really need to know if it's simply a choice rather than something more difficult to manage DIY.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I've had somewhat of a psych eval, that's where I was diagnosed with a mild case of bi-polar. I know she won't go because she feels there is nothing wrong on her end.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She doesn't want a divorce but neither does she want to be a real wife. She just wants you to support her and not make demands of any kind on her. She's suggested a separation (which is unlikely to be successful) to stop you from filing. Stalling is all she can come up with since she's apparently still not willing to do the work necessary to have a good marriage. And you obviously can't do all the work yourself. 

File. See what she does then. Maybe that will be the push she needs. Or not. But you won't know unless you try.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So I finally told our oldest today what was going on. One of the hardest things I have ever had to do. He had gone to a friends house with me and on the way over asked me why I was so sad. I told him I was just sad because his mom and I were always arguing. He thought for a while and asked me if it was because of "that one week a month where you don't talk to a lady". I told him no. After I told him, his first words to me were "is this because you work a lot and don't get appreciated or because mom wants to buy lots of things and you tell her no?". I was absolutely floored. I explained that neither is mom or I were at fault and we reached this decision together. He spent the rest of the ride crying and trying to calm himself down. When we got home, he told her that all he wanted do was spend time with me and he actually had me lay down and talk to him a bit before bed. 

I got to spend some time with my uncle this morning, he drove out and took me to breakfast. I've had the same group of people that I've been talking to a few times a day letting them know I'm OK and dealing with things. The outpouring of support from family and friends has been amazing to me. 

Her and I talked today and I told her that there would be no coming back from this. I wouldn't want to get back together because then I would always be wondering when it would happen again. She's started going into emergency mode and saying how she needs to cancel this and can't afford certain things now. I told her that I would work with her on things to help the kids out but nothing more. I stated "that I had been walked all over" in the marriage, I wasn't going to be walked all over leaving it. She wants to do it as a simple no-fault divorce.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

What's the financial side looking like? If she doesn't come out too different money wise I got to wonder.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

john117 said:


> What's the financial side looking like? If she doesn't come out too different money wise I got to wonder.


I haven't slept much in the past two days, can you explain a little more please?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Zdog, you had a very raw, honest conversation with your son. There is a moment when we realize our children (as much as we try to shield them) have a pretty good inkling of what is going on. You did well with him. Continue to reassure him that you will never stop loving him, and that he will be okay.

You also did well with your wife. Reality is beginning to set in. Don't be surprised if she throws a hail Mary to save the marriage for all the wrong reasons. She may even beg, cry, and throw sex at you.

Don't fall for it. She has shown you what type of wife she is willing to be to you. Why would it now suddenly be different?

I would suggest that you strongly encourage her to get a job. 

"Wife, our marriage will be over soon. The single best way you can make sure you provide a stable home on your end is to have solid employment. I would suggest you start looking sooner rather than later."

Keep your chin up, Z. You are handling this well thus far.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Zdog, you had a very raw, honest conversation with your son. There is a moment when we realize our children (as much as we try to shield them) have a pretty good inkling of what is going on. You did well with him. Continue to reassure him that you will never stop loving him, and that he will be okay.
> 
> You also did well with your wife. Reality is beginning to set in. Don't be surprised if she throws a hail Mary to save the marriage for all the wrong reasons. She may even beg, cry, and throw sex at you.
> 
> ...


As sad as it seems, I am sort of getting vindication watching her head spin like the exorcist trying to figure out everything she needs to do once it becomes final. I took back all the oil change stuff I had bought for her car and told her repairs and such on that vehicle is her responsibility now. It's quite liberating for lack of a better word....


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Of course it does. You have carried her in the mechanics of your relationship. However, she has carried you on the emotional side.

You know the withdrawal you experienced when she was pulling away from you? That is what she is going through now. She forgot you had value.

While I said the single best thing she can do is to get a job, the single best thing you can do is to figure out how to love yourself again. No partner wants to try and carry that much emotional weight. 

I would further argue that any partner that does not love themselves cannot carry someone who doesn't love themselves, either. Your wife falls squarely into that category.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Did you adopt her son? If not, will she let you see him if you divorce?


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## Dr. Stupid (Dec 8, 2016)

I'm glad to see that you're on your way to not being blatantly used anymore Z. She's going to find out soon who was whose crutch. 

With all of your emotional issues, I feel confident that if you continue moving away from her, part of the dark cloud that surrounds you will dissipate, and you will find yourself the better for it. In fact, I can't help but guess that many of your issues continue because of that dark cloud. 

Stand strong. I've been following you for a while, and I'm in your cheering section. You're too good of a soul to not find happiness.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

ZDog377 said:


> I haven't slept much in the past two days, can you explain a little more please?


What is the likely financial picture for you and her post divorce, compared to current?

Follow the money...


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

@Openminded, I've never adopted her son. I'm all he has ever known, so it would throw him for a loop if she wouldn't let me see him. I don't think that will be an issue. 
@john117, I don't think either of us win out on the post-divorce side. I don't even know where to begin running numbers but I do have some retirement savings (under 50K) compared to her amount of 0. 

We had our "final" marriage counseling appointment today. I was hesitant to go to it because I knew things were over but I told myself that I needed the closure. I definitely got it. This therapist is very blunt. I feel she has accomplished in three visits what the old therapist was still working on after a few months. She asked me point blank if I could do a separation agreement and I flat out said no. She then told me my options were divorce or living without sex the rest of my life. Option A it is! 

We both now seem to look/feel better. I feel like instead of dancing around the huge question mark we finally faced it. I am sure there will be some emotional challenges ahead. I sat down with her when we got home and told her the following..."we will get through this, either individually or together. Whether it is day by day or minute by minute, I will be here for you if you need it". She agreed likewise.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You still need to know figures. I have my set down to dimes. Here's what's yours, and what's mine. No child support or alimony. Include attorney costs for friendly and not friendly split. Include a property division proposal. In my case that's huge due to the substantial art collection we own. 

Here's where it gets tricky. It doesn't really matter what the numbers say. In my case I'm happy as a clam to not deal with a McMansion. Not so from her. In your case, she may not be off badly financially but she'll have to get a real job, which is a deal breaker for her.

In other words, while the numbers are favorable to her, she now has to work like the rest of us. That's not desirable for her. She may not even understand it. 

I've tried to explain how this works. To no avail. You need to explain the outcome, it's a lot more complicated. It's not simply here's half my 401k, bye. 

Months ago we discussed this and I theorized that inability to see thru such scenarios was a bit of a hint towards some mental health issue present. Now that you're in the red zone and she still lives in la la land it almost seems my original assessment wasn't off by much... 

Mrs. Z2 sees what she wants to see. And shuts off everything else. Not a recipe for coping.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Z this thread is a breath of fresh air. You actually moved through it, do you know how many people on here just stay in dead marriages? You seemed to be one of the ones who is gonna escape. 

Just want to give you some hope. There is more then likely someone else out there who will actually care about you like a wife should. Have you given yourself the chance to think that yet? In time you will probably meet here. Maybe you should start to have some hope for that. I think this is the turning point where things will start to change for the better for you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I don't understand the "we" in "We will get through this".

You are divorcing, right?

We stops long before filing.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

We has left the building a long time ago...

I suggest some financial counseling for her also, since her trip to la la land appears to be longer than expected.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

I'll be honest, I have so many thoughts running through my head right now. In my head I wanted this to be a civil divorce, I need to realize it won't be. Is the best way just to keep a notebook and write all these thoughts down?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ZDog377 said:


> I'll be honest, I have so many thoughts running through my head right now. In my head I wanted this to be a civil divorce, I need to realize it won't be. Is the best way just to keep a notebook and write all these thoughts down?


It sounds like a good idea. The counseling sounds like a great idea, too.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Nobody benefits from a non civil divorce except the lawyers. 

Perhaps you can explain the costs and benefits of a mediated or collaborative divorce, and offer it as an option.

That's my approach.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Does anyone happen to know of any good resources online for how to deal with bi-polar in a relationship? I've been searching things and reading articles but haven't found anything that really makes sense. Kind of just questioning a lot of things lately. She also let me know that she had 20 partners before we got married. I'm not letting her see that it bothers me but kind of confused inside....


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

A simple question, Z:

Are you done?

You don't sound like it.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> A simple question, Z:
> 
> Are you done?
> 
> You don't sound like it.


For a couple days, I was. I'm still not 100% saying I'm all back into it either. I'm in a weird state right now I guess.....


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> For a couple days, I was. I'm still not 100% saying I'm all back into it either. I'm in a weird state right now I guess.....


What happened? I'm thinking she may have said or done something to manipulate you. Did you have sex with her?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> What happened? I'm thinking she may have said or done something to manipulate you. Did you have sex with her?


Just a lot to think about. Yes, we did have sex. Things were weird before that though.....I've started to question if I have more than bi-polar as well.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> Just a lot to think about. Yes, we did have sex. Things were weird before that though.....I've started to question if I have more than bi-polar as well.


Well, the sex does complicate things.

Be open to what is going on with your thinking patterns and how it impacts your feelings and behaviors. Get your diet in order so you are eating a ton of vegetables and drinking plenty of water. What you eat impacts how you think and feel, which of course impact everything in your life.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

We have been going to counseling for the past few weeks and the counselor brought up that she is seeing a lot of couples like ourselves and she was considering starting a support group. Does anyone know a private and online way to start a support group? I've looked at Facebook, but know you can see who is in the groups at least.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> We have been going to counseling for the past few weeks and the counselor brought up that she is seeing a lot of couples like ourselves and she was considering starting a support group. Does anyone know a private and online way to start a support group? I've looked at Facebook, but know you can see who is in the groups at least.


Does your therapist mean a support group or group therapy?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Does your therapist mean a support group or group therapy?


Support group.


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