# Someone asked - here's my story



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

I wrote this on another forum in 2011:

This is long but these stories usually are. I have been a fairly active poster over the past couple months as I continue to recover from my wife's cheating. We married very young (she was 17, I was 18) although each of us had sexual relationships in high school. We had been dating a few months when she got pregnant and we both decided we wanted the child and that we should get married. It was a great decision to keep the child, but a very bad decision to marry. 

After 6 years of fighting & stress, we decided to separate. I blamed the marriage for problems I was having with anxiety and panic attacks and wanted to change my life. After about 3 months living apart we decided to give our marriage another try and I moved back home. I hadn't dated or had sex with anyone during our separation. She went out with an old flame a few times but told me that nothing happened because the old feelings were gone. I believed her because there was no reason to lie and I wouldn't have thought of it as cheating since our intentions at that time were to divorce. 

Over the next couple of months things were better and I thought we had made the right decision to give our marriage another try. She had a vacation planned with her parents & family that was booked while we were separated so I stayed with our son for the week that she was gone. I picked her up at the airport when she returned and I immediately felt something was wrong. I asked her and she told me that she had met someone and that our marriage was over. She wanted me to move out right away since that person was driving to move in with her in our apartment. I was stunned. Shocked. I was able to drive her home & drop her off and I told her I'd pick up my things some other time. I then parked the car and cried. I'm a really tough guy but this was a real punch in the gut. I called my brother for a place to stay and he welcomed me - no questions asked - for as long as I needed. 

I was a zombie for a few days and then I decided I wasn't going to just roll over and die so I called my wife and told her I wanted to see my son and pick up my things. My heart was broken and I felt so betrayed but I refused to let this crush my spirit and believed that time would pass and I would heal. I vowed to hate her forever and I told her I never wanted to see or talk to her again other than to exchange logistical stuff about our son. We agreed to every weekend and I would pick him up Friday and drop him off Sunday evening. All exchanges would consist of me pulling up and honking the horn and him walking out with his little overnight bag. No contact with the cheating *****.

Two or three weeks later I was dropping my son off after our weekend together and my wife told me I had me to come in for some reason. I didn't see the OM's car around so I obliged her. I should point out that I was an ex-boxer and all-around tough guy and the temptation to beat the sh!t out of the OM was strong, but I truly didn't blame him at that point in time. This was all on my wife and I didn't want to beat up some guy just because he wanted to get laid. Anyway, when I came in she acted very different and wanted to hug me. I stiffened but she held on to me. She told me she had sent the guy packing and that she now knew that she loved me and only me and that she wanted me to move back home right now. More shock on my part. I had been through hell for the past 3 weeks and was determined to tough it out and put this cheating **** out of my mind forever. But now she was crying and telling me she loved me and wanted only me and please, please come home. I caved. I was so sick and tired of hurting and it just felt good to have her love me and want me. I thought about how good it would be to wake with my son every day. She was all over me and we were in the bedroom within a few minutes having sex. 

When we were finished she told me that she had been with two guys. One was a ONS and the other the guy she "fell" for and allowed to move in with her. She told me that the experiences were great for her in that she learned a lot about herself and sex with other people and how lucky she was to have me. Absolutely zero remorse because in her mind we were still separated so she had license to screw around as much as she wanted to. The fact was we were living together again working to reconcile our marriage and I thought we were making good progress. I didn't know what to do or how to feel. I was really confused because it felt like she cheated. The whoring around she did on vacation knowing that I was dutifully taking care of our child and household was wrong. When I told her how I felt she would have none of it and told me that it was an important "awakening" for her and that it was my problem if I couldn't understand that. I told her I wasn't sure I could live with what she had done but that I would try to see it from her perspective. I reminded her that I had not dated or screwed anyone since the day we met and that what she did seemed wrong to me. She finally did apologize for hurting me, but didn't see it as cheating and believed it was a positive learning experience for her. 

Over the years that followed this became more and more of a problem for me. I tried to keep it bottled up in the back of my mind and we had two more kids together. Every time I brought this up she went into pure gaslighting mode. She stuck to her view of the story for many years and basically told me to "get over it" countless times. So I would keep my feelings under wraps as long as I could and then something would trigger them and we would have the same fight over and over again. I became more and more ashamed of myself for not leaving her once I got over the shock of it all and realized what she had done. I was angry that I cared for this woman enough to swallow the hurt, anger and outrage and considered suicide many times. The fact that she was true to me (as far as I know - she would never admit it) from then on and has been a good mother to our children only complicates the situation. All facts point to her truly believing she did nothing wrong screwing these guys because it was a valuable "learning experience". Her half-hearted apologies for "hurting me" never meant a thing to me because she simply was not sorry for what she had done and didn't see it as wrong. 

Now it's been thirty years and this wound has not healed. I've been in therapy for years and recently began seeing a new psychologist and finally began to talk about this. I still feel a tremendous amount of shame along with the anger and hurt. My Dr. has assured me that in her practice she has seen many people who struggle with their partner’s infidelity for many, many years. That "surviving" infidelity is a process with many ups and downs over a very long period of time. That the BS may believe they have dealt with the situation and forgiven the WS and years later something can trigger all the emotions again and the pain, anger and shame wash over the person in waves. 

I now am quite direct with my wife and have told her that she was selfish, uncaring, and callous when she decided to experience sex with other men while we were married. It has been a difficult issue because it is not what I would call "typical" infidelity and that has made it more difficult for both of us to work on. We have now cut through the bull**** and she claims she realizes that what she did was selfish, hurtful and, most importantly, wrong. She admits that she fought the idea that it was cheating because she thinks of herself as a good person who would never do anything so horrible. She tells me it is hard for her to admit the truth, but that she knows it was wrong and is now sorry for what she did. The problem for me remains believing her. I think that now she would say anything to keep me from divorcing her. I have decided that if I am not able to find some inner resolution to this within the next year or so that I am going to either leave her. 

UPDATE as of summer 2016: The past 5 years have only complicated things more. I was making some progress toward acceptance and understanding the whole situation back then for what it was. It was still very hard for me and my triggers increased during that time as I finally faced my emotions but I did think I was making progress toward healing whether that meant staying with her or leaving. Then my daughter started using heroin and we had to rescue our 3 year-old grandson. That became a legal battle that we finally won in court in fall of 2014. He’s been with us ever since. He’s been through a lot and I would die before I would risk harming his feeling of love & security. 
So I’m staying and trying to make the best out of those areas of our life that do not cause me pain. I see a counselor weekly and that helps – but my shame for the horrible decision I made after d-day is worse than ever. I will always advocate that a BH divorce his WW because I don’t believe true reconciliation is possible for most men. They will survive but cannot thrive. Be strong and start a new life without the horrible burden of infidelity dragging you down.

A final note: if my story is not clear about this let me say that I told exactly one person about this when it happened. It was the pastor of our church whom I had become to respect a great deal - and that's saying a lot for an atheist. I've had probably a dozen counselors since that time and I never revealed it to any of them until my current counselor. That's the depth of my shame - I couldn't even tell my therapist what I had been through. I strongly believe that if I could have opened up to a therapist things would be a lot different now. If this forum had existed back then things would be a lot different now.


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

drifter777 said:


> I wrote this on another forum in 2011:
> 
> This is long but these stories usually are. I have been a fairly active poster over the past couple months as I continue to recover from my wife's cheating. We married very young (she was 17, I was 18) although each of us had sexual relationships in high school. We had been dating a few months when she got pregnant and we both decided we wanted the child and that we should get married. It was a great decision to keep the child, but a very bad decision to marry.
> 
> ...


That's a long time to keep things bottled up. Glad to hear you are starting to express yourself. Don't let your wife stifle it. You can apologize for sitting on your feelings for that long, but not for having them. If she can't deal with that she can see herself to the door.


----------



## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

My thoughts on this kind of go all over the place.

1. Loveshack destroys relationships. Posting there among all those waywards where the betrayed spouse's hands are tied by William from really giving productive advice made progress impossible.

2. If I'm reading this right, in 1976 your wife cheated on you when you were 24 and she was 23 after you choose to separate from her leaving her with a 3 year old child. The separation was your idea and you were on the road to divorce. By agreement, you were both allowed to date others and you moved out. Then you tapped danced a little reconciliation but you weren't yet quite completely together. Your wife certainly committed adultery as she was still married but betrayal, not quite as much and she was merely 23 years old still looking at a future probably raising a kid single. 

3. I notice that neither of you were virgins on your wedding day. Do the men she was with prior to your relationship still bother you too? 

4. As a betrayed husband myself, I know how every individual experiences betrayal differently but ~~~ marriages between 17/18 year olds don't work out very often and the ones that do almost always, as a rule, experience infidelity at some point in time. There's just so much immaturity and inexperience at those ages. Since you have grandchildren now that must have been 20 years or more ago {edit to add - I see you are 64 years old - so 40 years ago}, again, when your wife was 23. That's a long time to hold on to all that resentment. 

5. To extrapolate from your inability to cope with your wife having sex with others while you were separated and 23 years old that very few men can or should recover from infidelity is a bit of a reach. Recovery is possible but having a recovery plan that you work together with your {former} wayward wife whereby you communicate and rebuild your marriage and make it better than ever before has much better success at overcoming resentment than hiding your feelings and posting to a bunch of wayward spouses on Loveshack. If your marriage was awesome and your wife was hot and your kid wasn't on heroin would this really be bothering you so much still? 

6. Part of recovery is living in the now, enjoying your life and not spending all your time focused upon and living in the past. Your wife has been faithful for decades now. Unless she's a devout Christian or otherwise religious, I can empathize with her feelings that she did little wrong after you made it pretty clear you were done with the relationship. If she is religious, her sins are between her and God and, if appears, God has laid out her consequences fairly clearly by providing her a God giving spouse unable to forgive and boiling in resentment.

7. I feel maybe you're using your wife as a convenient excuse or scapegoat for your unhappiness, depression and failures. You sound fairly mean and hurtful about this ~~~ yet you made the choice to stay and now want to go back and reclaim those years ~~~~ and still yet~~~this wife stands by you as you bemoan the past for years upon years, in private, on loveshack and now TAM. It's not working for you and she's probably posting herself somewhere about how miserable she is with you too. 

8. You and your wife have overcome so many odds to still be together all these years later and now you have the opportunity to model something so much different and better for this grandchild than the chaotic and immature home you apparently gave your own children. Be constructive, not destructive. You can't go back. You're {edit = 64 years old) now and fretting over behavior and choices both of you did when you were kids. I believe last year the 50th percentile age of 1st time brides elapsed 30 years old ~ renew your vows, sweep your wife off her feet, fall in love with her again ~ such a hugely more beneficial thing to do with your time than being negative on a infidelity forum. 

9. I'm glad I waited to get married and don't have to still answer to my wife for all my stupid 20's behavior.


----------



## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Oh yeah, you've got nothing whatsoever to be ashamed about. You didn't do anything wrong. 

Why do you feel your manhood or self-worth reside in your wife's pants? Who she has sex with (or had sex with 20-30 years ago) says absolutely nothing about who you are or your worth. 

Maybe, you should take some responsibility for your sins (choices) including the choice to have extra-marital sex in the first place with your wife, whereby the two of you got pregnant and prematurely married for the fetus's benefit. 

Sexual immorality is sexual immorality. What your wife did, is very much the same as what you did with her (and others) previous to your marriage. Are you sorry about those sinful sexual experiences? Why must your wife be sorry (repentant) when you haven't removed the plank for your own eye?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So when's the divorce?


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> So when's the divorce?


It is never too late. Why spend you next years with this crap? You can still love your grandchild.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Quality said:


> Your wife has been faithful for decades now.


We don't know that. Re-read the post "The problem for me remains believing her. I think that now she would say anything to keep me from divorcing her."


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

What she did was cheating. They were separated prior, and he doesn't have a problem with what she did during that time. But they got back together.
it was understood that they were working on their marriage.

so she leaves on a trip supposedly with family, comes back, and lo and behold announces that 'she met someone, so get out'.

so she lied and cheated.


----------



## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Who would be happy being Plan B?

Set yourself free!


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Life is too short to live with this. 

If you can't get past it...move on. This isn't fair to you and it's WAY unfair to her. 

I mean...whats the point?


----------



## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

You sound like a strong person for going through the hell you have been through. No advice but just to do whatever it is you need to do at this point.


----------



## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

MarriedDude said:


> Life is too short to live with this.
> 
> If you can't get past it...move on. This isn't fair to you and it's WAY unfair to her.
> 
> I mean...whats the point?


He's 64 years old now and they are about 2-4 years shy of their 50th wedding anniversary.

He's a successful engineer and they have primary custody of their young grandchild.

They've got a life together.

and it appears neither wants to divorce so he's just posting crap on the internet, resolving nothing and living in shame because 40 years ago, while they were on a martial break he actually orchestrated, she had sex with a guy and moved another guy in.

Stupid hurtful stuff but their marriage is so much more than what his wife did in 1976 and him living and reliving the past on multiple infidelity forums, is, in and of itself, ALSO stupid and hurtful. The big difference is he's doing it now in 2016 as a grown man.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Quality said:


> He's 64 years old now and they are about 2-4 years shy of their 50th wedding anniversary.
> 
> He's a successful engineer and they have primary custody of their young grandchild.
> 
> ...


You might want to re-read his initial post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Quality said:


> He's 64 years old now and they are about 2-4 years shy of their 50th wedding anniversary.
> 
> He's a successful engineer and they have primary custody of their young grandchild.
> 
> ...


I stand by my comment. 

Everyday is another chance to change yourself, your life, your direction.

Its a one shot deal. Fear profits him nothing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> You might want to re-read his initial post.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep.....I think Quality misread.

The separation was over and they were back living together and beginning R.

She left on a family vacation she had PLANNED during the separation, so he let her go.....and she goes out and bangs 2 POSOMs.

He even said he DIDN'T obsess over what she did during the separation when she admitted going out with an old flame.....because in his mind that wasn't cheating as he assumed they were not together and moving towards D.

Quality has misunderstood what went down.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Drifter, by what you have said below, I would encourage you to think about yourself first and take actions. You are 64 years old and have had very little or no peace for 30 years.* You cannot just talk about your situation you must take actions that will help improve you. 
*
First you have to take actions to relieve the shame that you have had for so many years. *When you get expert advice on how to get better with your shame do you employ that advice?* Talk and the right information and advice is not enough, you have to take actions. I know it may be hard for you but isn’t it much harder to endure years of shame?



> *By Drifter777*
> I became more and more ashamed of myself for not leaving her
> 
> Now it's been thirty years and this wound has not healed.
> ...







> He’s been through a lot and I would die before I would risk harming his feeling of love & security


. 

You can give your grandson feeling of love and security with or without your wife. You also stated that your shame is getting worse.
So what good are you for yourself or others if you keep getting worse?

You have a choice, you can make yourself do the tough things or you can stay in the state that you are now and get worse. Only you can choose.

Get all the help that you can. Also, go back to the Christian Pastor that you said helped you. Real Christianity can help with shame a whole LOT!


----------



## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

You are 64 and have 9 year old twins?


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Bibi1031 said:


> You are 64 and have 9 year old twins?


you have the wrong Drifter

you are thinking of Drifting On


----------



## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Dyokemm said:


> Yep.....I think Quality misread.
> 
> The separation was over and they were back living together and beginning R.
> 
> ...


I think there was only one other man from the vacation who immediately came back to live with her. The other guy was the old flame during the separation. But I may be mistaken. Not the first time.

They weren't back living together ~~ yet. Supposedly it's a complicated story of why, but they were on their way to reconciling {so he thought} but he still wasn't sleeping every night at her place {I may be recalling his story on loveshack some).

I just read the situation as they separated and were on their way to divorce by his choice. He needed "space". Then she goes out with an old flame and within 3 months the OP is changing his mind and wanting to reconcile. Wife is lukewarm to the idea and enjoying this single life but they have a kid together. The story doesn't say it but this guy she brought home after her trip ~~ was she already talking to him before they discussed reconciling.

Just sounds a bit like sour grapes over her running around having sex when he initially wanted to separate and divorce. I tend to hold men to a higher standard and if you let your wife go, you don't get to complain for 40 years that she actually went. 

I don't think it was nice. It was adultery but it doesn't sound like SHE thinks she wasn't allowed to do whatever she wanted at the time. They negotiated dating whoever they wanted during the separation but he never indicated the negotiated closing that window. He just presumed. Youthful exuberance, immaturity, stupidity....it doesn't matter. He clearly indicates he isn't divorcing or otherwise upsetting his young grandson's (who he has primary custody over) peaceful existence. He can divorce her if he wants whether it's adultery, cheating or whatever. But he's not going to do that. Instead he's not going to talk about it with anyone but his therapist, Loveshack and TAM griping about a quasi-cheat his wife of 47 years did in 1976.

If she remains 40+ years later still untrustworthy and foggy, that's on him and his failure to hold her accountable and to {re}build a marriage with her.


----------



## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

conversion said:


> you have the wrong Drifter
> 
> you are thinking of Drifting On


I sure did. Thank you.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Why did you do what you did back then? 

Because you were and are a man. 

Not a pretend man, a posturing, self-styled alpha male, but a real man.

Your subsequent actions have proven this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Quality said:


> I think there was only one other man from the vacation who immediately came back to live with her. The other guy was the old flame during the separation. But I may be mistaken. Not the first time.
> 
> They weren't back living together ~~ yet. Supposedly it's a complicated story of why, but they were on their way to reconciling {so he thought} but he still wasn't sleeping every night at her place {I may be recalling his story on loveshack some).
> 
> ...


OK

Sounds like you are familiar with his old posting on LS, and it has some different/additional details to what was posted above.

I am not familiar with that posting.....was just going off of the original post above.

The facts you mention do give a slightly different take on the story though.

I agree with you....still adultery.....but if both of these guys were from the initial separation time and they were NOT fully recommitted to R the M, then I agree Drifter did sort of shoot himself in the foot if he asked for the separation and D in the first place.

Doesn't excuse his WW IMO from being a cheater.....if there were no papers drawn up and they were in ANY way discussing getting back together, then the M was still in limbo....and her flings were definitely A's.


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

That's a rough story to read. It reinforces in me why I went the route I did.....well....am going to go. If I tried to stay married to my WW a lot of it would go just as it has for you and I think life is too short to live that way. 

I personally think there are only two kinds of R. Failed R and fake R. The BS always has to eat tons of sh*t and develop a taste for it. They were betrayed as badly as a human being can be betrayed and for R they have to eat that, stuff it down, and move on. The WS spouse, however, gets a free pass. They eat nothing. They went out and got their jollies with someone else and in the end still got to keep a loyal partner. What a great deal for them. Not so much for the BS. They get a cheater. Yippee!!!

Nope, I highly recommend dumping a cheater. You'll feel SO MUCH BETTER in the long run.


----------



## KJ_Simmons (Jan 12, 2016)

I understand what you may be going through OP, however, sounds like outside this issue your marriage has gone pretty good? Me thinks if you D, you're gonna regret it more than if you had stayed. You can't go back in time and change things, and have chosen this current path for 40+ years now, so why not stop and smell the roses for a change?


----------



## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

LucasJackson said:


> I personally think there are only two kinds of R. Failed R and fake R. The BS always has to eat tons of sh*t and develop a taste for it. They were betrayed as badly as a human being can be betrayed and for R they have to eat that, stuff it down, and move on.


I personally think this is something divorced & divorcing betrayed spouses like to tell themselves to feel better about their predicament or outcome. If recovery is impossible then, they haven't really lost anything. If their spouse is & was a personality disordered serial cheating monster there is nothing they could have done pre & post divorce to change that. While I agree divorce over infidelity is the right of every betrayed spouse that wants it, recovery is and can be an option too. In real life I know hundreds of happy recovered couples. When my wife and I share our testimony at church we often meet or communicate with couples married decades that overcame previously adultery in their marriage. There's nothing fake about these people and couples. They just don't tend to stick around the internet dwelling on the past and tearing themselves and their spouse down as often as divorced persons. They are too busy living, loving and working things out.



LucasJackson said:


> WS spouse, however, gets a free pass. They eat nothing. They went out and got their jollies with someone else and in the end still got to keep a loyal partner. What a great deal for them. Not so much for the BS. They get a cheater. Yippee!!!


There are no free passes with adultery. Consequences always result. In the long run, repentance has been harder on my wife than me. She has to live with the memories of her revolting behavior and what she almost did to herself, her family and me for the rest of her life. Adulteress sex is disgusting debased fornication, there are no "jollies" or "great deal". The worst part isn't that the betrayed spouse gets a cheater ~~ it's that they get a broken person they, after being so hurt, really have to help rebuild and reconstruct. For me and my family, it was well worth the effort; however, some waywards are beyond redemption. You can't really tell up front which ones are redeemable and which are not.




LucasJackson said:


> Nope, I highly recommend dumping a cheater. You'll feel SO MUCH BETTER in the long run.


You aren't even divorced yet so you know this how?

I'm so glad my wife and I stuck it out and remade our marriage and family. My wife would have destroyed her life. She probably would have been dead by now. Our children would have been shuffled back and forth between several homes {one of them containing an unrepentant wayward} and all the other resulting consequences of divorced families. I could have remarried but would likely never know the depth of love possible from working with the wife of my youth and bearer of all my history to make our family and marriage great. I don't see anyway possible a second wife could ever achieve what we have now. Our children got their real mom back too. We even work openly together with other couples sharing our history and I'm amazed watching her be open and candid with a room full of people some of whom we KNOW feel hatred and contempt towards all cheaters. 

Adultery sucks but life is too short to spend it forever in the adultery ditch defining and labeling everything and everyone around you as an "us" {betrayed} versus "them" {wayward or cheater}. Add in junior high, middle school, high school, college and all relationships every person has ever had and I'd venture to estimate that 98% of all persons have cheated, to some degree, in at least one relationship. It's self AND other destructive. But it's human nature and doesn't have to be or define anything or anyone forever.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Thanks for sharing your story Drifter. I think many of us dont really look at what Reconciliation actually CAN look like 20 years down the road. We hear 2-5 years and think...Oh that long? No...it sometimes takes decades and it seems LOADS of regret.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So, OP, what sins over the last 30 years have you committed that are not forgivable? Anything? 

That's a long time to hold someone's feet to the fire for a mistake. Either you can't get over it, in which case you should have left by now, or you can, so it ought not be such a burden today.

Do you want to be this upset? Do you feel as if you're in a morally superior position that you get to lord over your wife? Are you intentionally holding on to your anger for your own purposes? 

As I get older, I have discovered that the happiest and most content spouses are the ones who recognizer their partner as a real, flawed person whom they still love and cherish. Time drops the rose colored glasses from our eyes and lets us see our mate for who they truly are. It's even more satisfying to sit back and realize that we're with this person because we want to be, because we chose to be, not because we have to be - emotionally or otherwise. Marriage is hard work, and perhaps you're having to do the hardest work there is. That does not mean it's worthless. 

You chose to stay with this woman for 3 more decades. Have you received nothing positive from that time? Is is nothing more than a blur of resentment, or are you perhaps, in this time and place, giving too much power to an unchangeable past? You can torpedo your marriage, probably even justify doing so, but just consider that a marriage worth 40+ years is worth an additional 20.


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

threelittlestars said:


> Thanks for sharing your story Drifter. I think many of us dont really look at what Reconciliation actually CAN look like 20 years down the road. We hear 2-5 years and think...Oh that long? No...it sometimes takes decades and it seems LOADS of regret.


This is the only reason I shared my story - to show one man's lack of recovery decades later. I'm not unique - many men stay to keep their family life intact but they are not happy - just surviving. 

Quality - I clipped this from my LS post. I changed some of the tense because it was posted in 2011. As far as your "Christ" stuff - save it for someone who cares. I spoke to the pastor back then because I respected him as a man and believed he would never reveal my secret. I am an atheist and damn proud of it.

Third-party custody is very difficult to win. What some don't understand is that if I leave my wife now my daughter can - and will - bring an action to take our grandson away from us. I'm not sure how the trial would end up but there's at least an even chance that she would win. The trial cost me $50,000. last time and I don't think it would be much, if any, cheaper today. But, really, that's just logistics. This boy loves us and needs us. He needs parents who give him unconditional love and the security that brings. Some of you think I'm "whining" about all of this? Well, I gave up most of my life to stay with a cheater for my children and my own sense of duty and well-being. Now I don't care about my personal well-being...it's all about the boy. If you think I'm whining or complaining you are just a negative person looking for a reason to slam someone who doesn't agree with you. I state the facts, reveal the emotions I felt then and now, and I try to hold up a mirror for men trying to reconcile with a cheater. Real life vs. wishful thinking.

Again, I posted because I was asked to do so. I'm not asking for advice but do welcome comments. The value judgements offered here - good or bad - mean nothing to me. I did what I did, my current situation is 100% my choice, and any criticism rolls right off my back. I don't care what anyone else thinks about any of this.

As a much-needed clarification we were living together again. It was a gradual thing as we both became more comfortable with reconciliation. First a night here and there and by the time of the cheating I had moved all of my stuff back and was staying there regularly. From my perspective things were good and we were on a better, healthier path.


----------



## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

I believe I was the one who asked you to post your story. I meant for you to write your story in hopes of helping you heal. 

Saying that, you'll get tons of points of view because people generally write opinions based on what THEY would/should have done. So yes, let the criticism roll off. 


There are couples who can R and move on but what the WS does not understand is the hurt that will linger for a long time for the BS. 


Hearing your story helps me in a sense since if my wife had a EA or PA I'd divorce for many reasons and what you went through is one of those. I'd have resentment also for 30 years if I have stayed. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Drifter777*
> 
> I became more and more ashamed of myself for not leaving her
> 
> ...


*Wow, a sensitive nerve hit? Why so hostile?* 

You have been overwhelmed with shame and the “Christ stuff” really helped me as a BS and I was hoping it would help you. *Your ways and method is “worse than ever” after 30 years. However, I will not be bothering you with any “Christ Stuff” ever again.
*


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

jerry123 said:


> I believe I was the one who asked you to post your story. I meant for you to write your story in hopes of helping you heal.
> 
> Saying that, you'll get tons of points of view because people generally write opinions based on what THEY would/should have done. So yes, let the criticism roll off.
> 
> ...


As I always point out when I read this in a post - you have no idea what you would do if you were actually faced with your wife cheating on you. Really - no idea.

Yeah - I posted because you asked and others may have been curious. This is nothing more than a warning to all BH's that things don't resolve themselves. Hoping you will feel better because "time heals all wounds" is a horrible plan for recovery. Face all of it head-on right after d-day and know that there are two different paths to recovery and that neither of them is wrong. Divorce and reconciliation are both long, tough, painful roads to travel. Odds favor a BH recovering faster when choosing divorce because he can save a lot of self-esteem and begin moving forward pretty much immediately. It's simply the safer path to healing for him.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

drifter777 said:


> It's simply the safer path to healing for him.


Well, at least it might have been the safer path to healing _for you_. It's by no means certain that it's universally true. Hell, it's not even certain that it's the right advice for you, since we don't have a way-back machine to run the experiment over again.

Hard choices, even wrong ones, leave a sting, but they shouldn't be nearly incapacitating after 30 years. I left a company in my late 20's because I couldn't stand the management team. If I had been a little smarter, I might have stayed five years and retired by 40. C'est la vie. It would sure suck to get up every morning and bemoan the choice I made at the time.


----------



## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

drifter777 said:


> This is the only reason I shared my story - to show one man's lack of recovery decades later. I'm not unique - many men stay to keep their family life intact but they are not happy - just surviving.


After 40 years, this is all on and about you and your choices. Sure, door number 3, rug sweeping, is a stupid choice many betrayed spouses take and, yet, still, most of those are pretty good after 5 or even 10 years ~~ 40 years of holding on to and persistently badgering your wife and calling her names about a quasi-affair your wife had when you were both 24 years old still makes your situation an anomaly. 

"proud atheist"??? ~~ what's there to be proud of ??? It's like saying, "I'm proud of believing in nothing". Just struck me as an odd phrase. Like the other guy said, atheism doesn't seem to be working for you. Maybe the big unicorn in the sky is trying to get your attention. I thought atheists lived by the golden rule ~~ do unto others as you've have done to you. Does your wife still hold onto resentments for things you did in your 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's??? 

I read on LS where you constantly try to get your wife to tell you why she did it. There is no right answer to that question. The internet has 1000's of different answers to that question. She did it because she could. Because she was stupid and immature. Because her husband, who she was stuck marrying because she got pregnant wasn't the prince charming she thought he was and she fantasized about having a new life ~~ a different life ~~ a better life {turned out she wasn't the only one thinking the two of you weren't awesome together}. So she met this guy and he just seemed, on vacation, so very perfect. She didn't want to pass on the opportunity she saw with this new boy to await the next time you got the itch to request a separation and divorce. He promised stability {he lied because he wanted to have sex with her} and stability is what she thought she needed. It was a bonus that OM seemed so passionate about her and they seemed so perfect. So the OM comes home ~~ you move out and 180 her. She misses you and everyday living with OM starts to bring out his flaws. He wasn't you. He wasn't your sons dad. She could see nothing but disappointment in everyone and she ended it quickly and came begging for her real husband back and his forgiveness. 24 year old you did exactly what I'd expect a boy that honorably married his knocked up girlfriend at age 18. You reconciled. You were never had much of a choice really so bemoaning it now and presenting your angst and anguish about your choice as warning story about lifetime resentment over infidelity is kind of a reach.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

drifter777 said:


> As I always point out when I read this in a post - *you have no idea what you would do if you were actually faced with your wife cheating on you. Really - no idea.*


^^^^^No truer words have been spoken.

D777, was your life/marriage without happiness? In the latter years, did you and wife not laugh together, love together, share intimacy together? There is no shame enjoying and remembering the happy moments.


----------



## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@drifter777 : I was going to say something different, but you made your point. You shared your story about what happens if you rug-sweep the problems for decades. You were also limited by the laws back then which were ever WORSE for men when it came to Custody of your children. (Compared to me, in which I have primary custody because she tried to bluff me with a scare tactic) and for her remorse, she doesn't attempt to fight me on the terms. Which is difficult after final orders. 

You didn't have the tools today back then, nor therapist who understood the dynamics of infidelity either. I'm sure if this happened to you in 2016, you'd lock her out of the apt. Filed for custody and shamed her. Its pretty crappy to come home from "vacation" and say "you gotta move, I have a new penis". I'm sure that penis got sick of having to deal with another man's crying toddler really quick. I think having constant fights with your SO is bad sign (Pre Affair and non A issues) which seems to happen to a lot of couples who marry in their teens.

Many people do R without books and therapy and live like you have. Those tools gives people a chance for a happier R, if they want it.

My nightmare started 8 months ago, hit the fan 6 months ago. I still have triggers of course, I have understanding on how to deal with them - not always. I have a rather experienced sexual past, that makes me still desire my 31yr old wife over other women. Inside and outside of the bedroom, we dig each other. We very much agree on how we raise our son. We don't want to co-parent. If I would phantom a guess on how far along I feel about "recovery", I'd say about 15%. There are things I and she needs to do, that'll satisfy my "gut" we can make it. We both talk to each other... it doesn't hurt me to TALK about the crap that happened. 

I know I can pick up other women at any time now. That was a door she opened when she broke my trust. But I want more happiness than sticking my penis in 2-3 different women a month.
My son, being happy and laughing brings me the best joy. Him hugging and kissing us has much more value, than waking up after a night of NSA sex.
@Quality : I think you have posted some pretty good stuff, but:


> "proud atheist"??? ~~ what's there to be proud of ??? It's like saying, "I'm proud of believing in nothing". Just struck me as an odd phrase.


 Uh, exactly. Proud to not be concerned about a fairy-tail being in the clouds with super-powers, yet limited thinking of a human from 2-3000 years ago. Doesn't mean such people aren't friends or respect those who need religion in their lives.

By all means, human energy is real. Its why people go to groups. Even here, we share a common experience that brings us together. But in life, that group setting is quite different. Hearing someone telling them what they need to do, is how they need to function. Who knows.

Many people here have helped me along this journey.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifter777 said:


> I will always advocate that a BH divorce his WW because I don’t believe true reconciliation is possible for most men.


You should follow your own advice.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

drifter777 said:


> This is the only reason I shared my story - to show one man's lack of recovery decades later. I'm not unique - many men stay to keep their family life intact but they are not happy - just surviving.
> 
> Quality - I clipped this from my LS post. I changed some of the tense because it was posted in 2011. As far as your "Christ" stuff - save it for someone who cares. I spoke to the pastor back then because I respected him as a man and believed he would never reveal my secret. I am an atheist and damn proud of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying the situation Drifter.

Now that you have explained you WERE back living together in R, then I have to disagree very much with Quality's assertion that these were 'quasi' As......the ONS and longer A with POSOM2 were complete and utter betrayals since the occurred on the vacation taken while you two were back in R.

I can understand why you have never truly gotten over them, considering that it seems you primarily stayed for your kids.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Bibi1031 said:


> Who would be happy being Plan B?
> 
> Set yourself free!


I'm not so sure he's a Plan B, TBH. In all honesty, it sounds like he's Plan A, but not in the traditional sense.

The problem is that they married young, and shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Yes, they both had dating and sexual experience prior to meeting each other, but they were also 17/18 at the time, and she got pregnant quickly. Basically, both of them were forced into a life of parenthood and responsibility long before they should have been.

This does not excuse or justify what she did back then in the slightest. OP stayed faithful throughout it ALL.

Again, the issue is getting pregnant and marrying young. It rarely works out well in the end. More times than not, one or both partners can't handle the fact that they're locked in to mundane family life at such a young age (in this case, late teens, early 20's. Ouch).

My wife and I dated when we were teenagers for several years - each other's firsts. She broke up with me rather unceremoniously at the end of high school. What once hurt me greatly, I now realize was a blessing in disguise. The draw to experience life, relationships, sex - all of that - is too much. Had we not broken up then, the odds that one of us did later, or worse, cheated, were high. Both of us went on to experience many different things - dating, children, marriage. Some of it good, some of it bad. We found our way back to each other, and we're better for it.

Honestly, this is the way it should be. Get out and experience life. This is what OP's wife had the pull to do. Should she have done it differently? Of course. But at the end of the day, it's all about the same thing - experience.

To be honest, he should have taken the opportunity to do the same at some point - and I think that is PART of why he feels the way he does now, all these years later. He's now like me - hasn't been with someone new since before he hit his 20's. When my wife and I broke up at the end of high school, I dated once, had a casual fling once, then met my ex wife. So the last time I dated, or even had sex with, someone "new", I was all of 19. I have no regrets whatsoever, but every now and again, I DO feel like I missed out on that part of my life. I strongly suspect OP does, too.

And it's compounded by the fact that the woman he hitched his wagon to when he was 17 or 18 HAS had those experiences, apparently got them out of her system, and has settled in with him - happily, it sounds like, I must add.

The circumstances of how she obtained these experiences are not ideal, but it is what it is. We can debate whether they were separated or not til the cows come home. He says no, she says yes. There's an impasse there. She got her experience, he did not. She has been with him ever since, and from the sounds of it, lovingly.

The rear-view mirror is an extremely important part of driving, but one must always keep their eyes on the road, in front of them.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Your wife forced Separation so she could sleep with other men. She wanted to have some experience she told you. 

Even after 30 years she never grow up and telling you to forget about it or move on is huge problem. 
You spend a lot of money on your therapists but what about your wife? Why did she never go for IC or MC ?

Sorry to hear about your Daughter. I really hope she quit using drugs for her sake and her children.


----------



## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

[QUOTE
*As I always point out when I read this in a post - you have no idea what you would do if you were actually faced with your wife cheating on you. Really - no idea.
*

[/QUOTE]

YOU have no idea what I would do...

If you ever read my story you'd know I suspected my wife may have cheated. Never found proof. Maybe it was my insecurities at the time. 

So when I discussed things about cheating with my wife I clearly let her know. If you cheat on me whether it's a EA/PA, I'm done. I even showed her my lawyers number is one click away. 

I nor do 95% of people have perfect marriages. I'm not asking for one. I've done all the hard work these past 4 years and she's done the minimum. 

So saying that, I have no problem divorcing my wife if cheating is involved. 

There are millions of other women out there. My wife does not have a magical [email protected] Would the kids be upset, sure, but I will not teach them to stay in a marriage where one spouse has looked outside the marriage for sex. Personally, I have more respect for myself to leave than stay. 

Like I said, I'd end up in the exact position you are 30 years later. 

My post has not much to do with your situation but I had to write it for my own clarity. 


Plus, I started this whole thing asking about your story. :wink2:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

alexm said:


> I'm not so sure he's a Plan B, TBH. In all honesty, it sounds like he's Plan A, but not in the traditional sense.
> 
> The problem is that they married young, and shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Yes, they both had dating and sexual experience prior to meeting each other, but they were also 17/18 at the time, and she got pregnant quickly. Basically, both of them were forced into a life of parenthood and responsibility long before they should have been.
> 
> ...


This is a great post! It feels like you have personal experience with "married too young" one way or another and you've done a good job describing my situation. 

As for Plan B - I most certainly was. She told me that she was confident in experimenting because she believed I would be there if she ever wanted me back. When I unknowingly did a 180 on d-day it scared the hell out of her. After a week or so she began to face the fact that I was NOT going to make any effort to get her back - and I wasn't. The level of hurt she inflicted pushed me into pure survival mode. I believed if I maintained absolute no-contact that I would heal much faster than doing any "pick me" dance. I also was devastated by her betrayal and I was developing a searing hatred for her after what she did and the way she did it. My only chance to save my self-respect was to treat her like she no longer existed. Of course I was dying inside but I was strong enough - fueled by her horrible betrayal - to stay the course of no contact for as long as I needed.

Yes - of course you are right regarding teenagers getting married. But in 1969 the choices were very limited. Abortion was illegal. Unmarried pregnant teenagers were treated as pariahs by society. So it was pretty much breaking the law - complete with a lot of health risks for both her & baby - giving the baby up for adoption or keeping the it. She immediately decided to keep the baby so then it was a question of should we get married. Both our families were gently pushing for "no" which is probably one reason we chose "yes". Other factors were things like I had been living on my own since I was 16 due to FOO issues so I wasn't afraid to leave my family. She was pretty mature for her age and her family would be there to support her. That said it was still a bad mistake but one I was committed to once the baby arrived. He's been a wonderful son in every respect. 

My own counselor said that infidelity in a marriage with our circumstances is common and quite understandable. I didn't fire her but I told her in no uncertain terms that I considered what she said to be callus & hurtful and I'd thank her to never patronize me by trying to rationalize the incident away. She apologized and told me I was right to call her on her bullsh!t. Yes, statistically it is common but to say it is understandable is giving tacit approval to it and that is wrong.

I can still feel the shock and pain of d-day and the hurtful way she revealed it to me. It is still right under the surface like an abscessed wound that needs treatment. All those who say "you can leave now" simply don't get it. I'm have always compartmentalized aspects of my life and can keep this beast bottled up pretty well. There are many aspects of our life together that are good and we enjoy our children and grandchildren immensely. I have a soon-to-be 7 year-old boy who depends on us to be his parents. He's been through enough trauma and in addition to lots of love and emotional support he needs consistency and stability to facilitate his healing. His life is worth more than mine so I am staying BUT I will never stop trying to resolve my emotional struggle.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

drifter777 said:


> This is a great post! It feels like you have personal experience with "married too young" one way or another and you've done a good job describing my situation.
> 
> As for Plan B - I most certainly was. She told me that she was confident in experimenting because she believed I would be there if she ever wanted me back. When I unknowingly did a 180 on d-day it scared the hell out of her. After a week or so she began to face the fact that I was NOT going to make any effort to get her back - and I wasn't. The level of hurt she inflicted pushed me into pure survival mode. I believed if I maintained absolute no-contact that I would heal much faster than doing any "pick me" dance. I also was devastated by her betrayal and I was developing a searing hatred for her after what she did and the way she did it. My only chance to save my self-respect was to treat her like she no longer existed. Of course I was dying inside but I was strong enough - fueled by her horrible betrayal - to stay the course of no contact for as long as I needed.
> 
> ...


It would be nice if your fWW expressed realization of how lucky she was that you are the man you are.

I believe she would have lost her M after what she did if you were more like most other men.

I hope she appreciates that fact and both shows and says it to you.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

drifter777 said:


> now it's been thirty years and this wound has not healed.


Damn.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You got married in 1969? I got married in 1967. It was a very different world almost 50 years ago. Our generation tended to marry very young and we were expected to be ultra-responsible and grow up fast. My ex-husband and I did those things. One day, in his mid-30's, he decided to cheat. I almost divorced him but he begged and pleaded and I didn't really want my son to be in a divorced family so I stayed. He swore he would never do it again. Thirty years later, he did -- with the same OW. I divorced him. After the divorce, we became good friends again and had many laughs about our teenage grandchildren over the last few years. We both loved them dearly and saw them every day and watched them grow. They were the center of our world. They remain so for me. 

He died a couple of months ago. I won't get to send him a text next year and remind him of those two kids who got married 50 years ago in 1967 so I'll visit his grave instead and talk to him there. 

Our grandchildren miss him very much. He was extremely important to them. I totally understand why you stay.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

drifter777,

Sorry to hear of your situation, 

You are correct that it is a commonly held belief that time heals all wounds, but infidelity seems to be an exception. Most people seem to come to terms with someone dying better than they come to terms with cheating, had your WW died instead of cheated, you would now be at peace with it. That sounds harsh but I know an 85 year old who still is destroyed by her husbands serial cheating 60 years ago.

Did you ever get a really complete and detailed confession from your WW? Sometimes BH are left to sort out inconsistent stories which makes them feel that their WWs are still lying to them even if by omission. 

Have your WW take a polygraph. You might say that the detail do not matter now, but it does matter that your WW is still lying to you, if she is, and she should be more than willing to clear up any uncertainty.

Did you ever confront the OMs and more importantly did you expose the OM to his GF or Wife?

Did you move away from the affair took place? 

Does the OMs live anywhere nearby. This can be unhealthy for you as a restaurant they went to can be a constant reminder which refreshes it every time you drive by.

I think in your real life you need to tell your story to more people, you have no obligation to keep your WWs wrong doings a secret and bottle it up inside of yourself. You should start by telling your children.

My WW affair with OM-1 took place 20+ years ago and even before we were married, but it never faded. It will come to a resolution however.

Tamat


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

NVM.


----------

