# Car scan tool



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ok so I'm thinking about buying a scan tool for my car. In the past I would just go to autozone and have them ck it but I feel I fix and repair my own vehicles so much I should just buy one . 

I have been shopping on amazone and there are so fing many to choise from and the price range is anywhere from 15$ to 2000$

The reviews seem very generic almost like there fake!

Anybody have any recommendations?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Plus I will be in the market for a used car soon and I thought it would be useful for making sure any future purchases could be scanned to make sure there are no codes.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I've got a fairly cheap unit. These days there is so little one can actually repair on a modern car. It is really handy though to be able to read the code to see how time critical it is. Also, a bad fuel cap (or just putting it on loosely) is the most common cause for the engine light to come on. My kids have all had various issues, too. Some were pretty minor and resulted in an easy sensor replacement, while others like a camshaft timing chain tensioner needed an immediate trip to the shop.

Mine just reads basic codes and will reset the MIL dashboard light. It won't display all the possible parameters such as engine rpm, ignition timing, fuel mixture, voltage etc that a full engine diagnostic tool will. So look at what the tool is capable of vs what your needs are.

When you read the code, do some research on the internet for your specific make, model, and year. Sometimes there are common problems and the code itself doesn't totally point you in the right direction. The online search may inform you that the sensor is frequently bad, or the code usually means a certain part or adjustment is the culprit.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

chillymorn69 said:


> Plus I will be in the market for a used car soon and I thought it would be useful for making sure any future purchases could be scanned to make sure there are no codes.


Yes! And beware the "Ready" status. The MIL light can be turned off with the scanner and the codes cleared. But the car's computer will require a specific time before it is then ready. Basically, the computer realizes the codes were cleared but it doesn't want to report that everything is actually working properly until the car has been run for a while. Either a certain number of engine start/stop cycles, or a certain distance or time running. Until that has happened it will report it is not ready, even though no codes will be shown and the MIL light is off. Then once the car has run for a while it will report ready, and if there are still any problems it will turn on the MIL light and report codes.

A dishonest seller would clear the codes and turn off the light just before you show up to test drive the car. You think everything is ok. Then the next day after you get the car home the MIL comes on!

Your scanner will tell you if the computer has been reset recently and is not yet Ready.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Thor said:


> Yes! And beware the "Ready" status. The MIL light can be turned off with the scanner and the codes cleared. But the car's computer will require a specific time before it is then ready. Basically, the computer realizes the codes were cleared but it doesn't want to report that everything is actually working properly until the car has been run for a while. Either a certain number of engine start/stop cycles, or a certain distance or time running. Until that has happened it will report it is not ready, even though no codes will be shown and the MIL light is off. Then once the car has run for a while it will report ready, and if there are still any problems it will turn on the MIL light and report codes.
> J
> A dishonest seller would clear the codes and turn off the light just before you show up to test drive the car. You think everything is ok. Then the next day after you get the car home the MIL comes on!
> 
> Your scanner will tell you if the computer has been reset recently and is not yet Ready.



I hear you.

Also if the light is on i could tell if its a simple sensor that I can repair or a transmission code etc.

Just more info to decide if I want to buy it. There seems to be a fair bit of cars for sale with the lights on and I could use it as a bargining tool.. 


Just repaired my honda . The cel and tsc lights were on the cel was blinking wich means you could cause more damage driving. I had autozone scan it and it said misfire .so i changed the coil pack for 36 $ and bam im on the road again.


If I had to pay a garage it would have been 200 $

Lots of cel light problems are easy fixes.


If you have a scanner.

I get a lot of satisfaction saving money repairing my own cars and I think I save a substancial amount of money doing it.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

I've got a couple of bluetooth modules. The plug into the car and then connect to an app on your phone. I think the app I use is called Torque. The devices are cheap and simple. I keep one in the glove box all the time just in case I need it on a trip.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

FalCod said:


> I've got a couple of bluetooth modules. The plug into the car and then connect to an app on your phone. I think the app I use is called Torque. The devices are cheap and simple. I keep one in the glove box all the time just in case I need it on a trip.


I have seen them .

But I don't want to be messing around the theres an app to down load bull****.

I want plug and go technology.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> Ok so I'm thinking about buying a scan tool for my car. In the past I would just go to autozone and have them ck it but I feel I fix and repair my own vehicles so much I should just buy one .
> 
> I have been shopping on amazone and there are so fing many to choise from and the price range is anywhere from 15$ to 2000$
> 
> ...


Dumb question - why continue to own cars that need such frequent repairs? Do you enjoy repairing them? Is it a good use of time away from family, love and friendship?


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

You do realize that you do not need a scanner, right? For every vehicle, there is a way to get the CEL to blink out codes. Sometimes you alligator clip two terminals together, then switch the ignition on,off,on that quickly and the light blinks out codes. For other vehicles, the procedure is different.

I drive vehicles with upwards of 300k miles on them and have had CELs come on exactly twice in the past 20 years. If I had a vehicle throwing codes more than once every five years, I'd consider replacing it.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

chillymorn69 said:


> I have seen them .
> 
> But I don't want to be messing around the theres an app to down load bull****.
> 
> I want plug and go technology.


I've got this one and use Torque pro on an out of service cell phone for it. Works fantastic, you can display instruments if you want (tach, oil pressure, temp, etc.), clear codes, review history, deep scan, the works. Around $30 total. I bought it when I was car shopping and most of the cars I checked had just been cleared. Deep scan still caught them. 

Do you really prefer to spend a bunch of money to avoid 5 minutes downloading an app?


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

chillymorn69 said:


> I have seen them .
> 
> But I don't want to be messing around the theres an app to down load bull****.
> 
> I want plug and go technology.


I have both. I have an old Actron CP9135 AutoScanner that is a plug and play diagnostic tool. I also have a BAFX Products Bluetooth Diagnostic OBDII Reader that is the device that requires the phone. I much, much prefer the latter because it gives me much more information. I'm sure that the plug and play devices have gotten better, but with the one I have, it just gives me a code that I have go lookup somewhere.

The other cool thing about the Bluetooth tool is that it gives me a bunch of information I can use while driving. I used it on a trip to record lots of fun data (I'm a data geek) about things like instant mileage, engine temps, etc.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

chillymorn69 said:


> Lots of cel light problems are easy fixes.
> 
> 
> If you have a scanner.
> ...


Unfortunately my current car is a 15 yr old Audi, which means nothing is user fixable, and everything is expensive! About all I can do is change filters and spark plugs.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

FalCod said:


> I have both. I have an old Actron CP9135 AutoScanner that is a plug and play diagnostic tool. I also have a BAFX Products Bluetooth Diagnostic OBDII Reader that is the device that requires the phone. I much, much prefer the latter because it gives me much more information. I'm sure that the plug and play devices have gotten better, but with the one I have, it just gives me a code that I have go lookup somewhere.
> 
> The other cool thing about the Bluetooth tool is that it gives me a bunch of information I can use while driving. I used it on a trip to record lots of fun data (I'm a data geek) about things like instant mileage, engine temps, etc.


Big brother is also a data geek!

I think I said too much !


R


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

FYI on a Honda if you get an 02 sensor fail it can be a sign of valve seal blow but killing the sensor.

On older Cars this can be something to watch out for and not was to find. There’s no smoke because of the cats and the oil leaks internal so if you are burning oil and 02 sensor goes bad buyer beware.

Cel can be simple or a warning of bigger problems.

I have a good Mechanic Friend who will scan my vehicles for free.

And I ran through the misery of buying a used Honda for my Daughter that the o2 sensor was replaced before I bought it but then after buying I had oil consumption and ended up paying 2700 to put in another used motor. 

Food for thought.

Also auto zone will scan for free if you don’t want to spend the money on a scanner.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> I've got this one and use Torque pro on an out of service cell phone for it. Works fantastic, you can display instruments if you want (tach, oil pressure, temp, etc.), clear codes, review history, deep scan, the works. Around $30 total. I bought it when I was car shopping and most of the cars I checked had just been cleared. Deep scan still caught them.
> 
> Do you really prefer to spend a bunch of money to avoid 5 minutes downloading an app?


I *need* this. 20 minutes ago I had no idea it existed and now I *need* one. First, because I do whatever repairs my tools and skills allow. Second, because my son will be used car shopping for his very first car soon.



chillymorn69 said:


> I get a lot of satisfaction saving money repairing my own cars and I think I save a substancial amount of money doing it.


Oh, yeah. Last CEL that came on was a bad EGR valve. $300 and a day at the shop. DIY $56 and about 25-35 minutes.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

concernedhub said:


> And I ran through the misery of buying a used Honda for my Daughter that the o2 sensor was replaced before I bought it but then after buying I had oil consumption and ended up paying 2700 to put in another used motor.


It turns out the long term reliability of a used car depends almost entirely on the first owner. There is little correlation to brand or model, unlike new cars where there is a difference. As a result, my next car will be bought new, with the plan of being the last car I buy. The goal is 20 years and 150k miles.

One of my daughters bought a used car from her BIL who had taken very good care of it. Three months later the engine came apart, probably a connecting rod or crankshaft failure which smashed a large hole in the case! So there's always a risk even if it is a respected brand and well cared for.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> Dumb question - why continue to own cars that need such frequent repairs? Do you enjoy repairing them? Is it a good use of time away from family, love and friendship?


Because I don't do car loans.

I haven't had a car payment in 20yrs. I buy decent used for 3000 to 5000$ cash.

Maybe spend 3 to 4 weekend a year fixing them . I have 3 cars by the way.

Now let me ask you how much your car payment is? How much your extra ins on a new car is? And what do you spend your time on that you can't put in a few days a year saving thousands of dollars? Plus lots of newer cars break down.

My kds are almost grown. And them seeing how to fix things and save some money I tink is good.

Instead of being like sheep following the heard or keeping up with the jones's


I guess for me to drive 3 or 4 vehicles that my family can use the extra hassle is worth it.

I bought a ford ranger for 500$ put 800$ into fixing some easy stuff and drove that truck for 3 yrs then sold it for 1800$

Bought a 2000 accord for 3200$ have fixed it 3 time in the 4.5 years of driving it.


Bought a 2002 accord for 3600$ drove 2yrs without a problem this weekend spent 2hrs replacing the coil pack. That includes driving 20min onevway to get the part.


I try for debt free living if I can't pay cash then I can't afford it.


Funny thing is now That I could afford to buy a new vehicle or for someone to fix it I just despise paying for something I can do myself.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> FYI on a Honda if you get an 02 sensor fail it can be a sign of valve seal blow but killing the sensor.
> 
> On older Cars this can be something to watch out for and not was to find. There’s no smoke because of the cats and the oil leaks internal so if you are burning oil and 02 sensor goes bad buyer beware.
> 
> ...


Scanners are pretty cheap now.

Under 50$ should get something pretty good.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

chillymorn69 said:


> Because I don't do car loans.
> 
> I haven't had a car payment in 20yrs. I buy decent used for 3000 to 5000$ cash.
> 
> ...


I so feel ya! 

We bought a 2004 Pontiac Vibe new with 15 miles on it, paid it off, and are still driving it. That is the only car we've ever bought new. We got it right after the auto show on a $0 down, $0 interest promotion. The Vibe is usually driven by DH. I usually drive a 2007 Dodge Grand Caravan we bought used 4 years ago for $7,000 cash. 

Not only do we not have car payments, but the insurance savings is about $200 per month and I don't ever pay for delivery. The Vibe's rear seats all fold flat for about 8 ft cargo space and the van has stow-n-go seating for absolutely amazing cargo space. I have moved a refrigerator, a stove, a washer and dryer set, a couch and love seat, and a bedroom set in those vehicles. 

My girls have both spent time at the auto parts store and at the junkyard scavenging replacement parts. When they were teens they helped me make repairs and, now that they're adults, pretty much only pay a mechanic if it's something they don't have the tools to do themselves. 

I've watched too many friends and family keep up with the Jones's with bad results. The latest is a guy who always had a new lease vehicle every 2 years. He was injured, lost his job, lost his car, and is now totally screwed on government aid. Had he put those 14 years of lease payments towards a purchase, he'd still have a car and a way to get to a job. (Public transport here is a joke and very unreliable, so most employers actually ask during the pre-hire interview if you have a reliable vehicle. It's really that bad.)


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## sparky24 (Apr 6, 2017)

I use bluedriver love it


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

for a couple years, my wife and i owned a snapon franchise, which she ran. my wife, @Akinaura, sold a whole LOT of scan tools because she was always very well informed about them and could tell her customers exactly what to expect from them and how to use them. and not just snapon brands, as a franchisee, she got LOTS of trades. so, hopefully she will come in and comment. 

we also dont like to buy new cars. the last car we bought with payments was purchased over five years ago, and i plan on never making a car payment again. 

financially, it just makes no sense.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

As'laDain said:


> i plan on never making a car payment again.
> 
> financially, it just makes no sense.


It could make sense. The price of used cars is pretty high these days, at least for something with less than 100k miles on it.

Looking up the common Toyota Corolla prices on KBB shows the following. A mid level 2018 stick shift no additional options vehicle shows a typical actual price around $22k. A used 2012 mid level stick shift with no additional options sells in a private sale for about $8500. The used vehicle has 81,000 miles on it.

If we guess the typical lifespan of the Corolla is going to be about 160,000 miles, I could buy one new vehicle or 2 of the used ones. The raw purchase price savings is about $5k if I were to sequentially buy the 2 used cars. But we know the large majority of maintenance and repair are going to occur in the last half of the vehicle's life. It isn't too hard to rack up $5k in repairs. All it takes is one engine or transmission problem. Or a few sensors, or an engine seal.

The reliability of a new vehicle is a true savings in real dollars. Edmunds shows a total repair and maintenance expense to 75k miles (on the 2014 Corolla) as $1800. The new car comes with a warranty, too.

The used car will have much higher repair and maintenance costs. One site reports the cost to 150k miles on the Toyota is $11k. To use round numbers then, the maintenance costs of the used car will be $9k.

Sorry for all the math. But here are the bottom lines looking at driving about 160k miles. I could buy one new car for $22k, and then expect maintenance and repair costs of another $11k. Total expense $33k. If I buy two used cars, one now and run it to 160k miles, then another used car and run it to 160k miles, the total purchase prices will be $17k. The maintenance and repair costs will be another $18k, for a total expense of $35k.

It is clearly cheaper to buy one new car and drive it to the end rather than buy 2 mid-life used cars. Even if I had to pay some interest on a loan for the new car.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

chillymorn69 said:


> Ok so I'm thinking about buying a scan tool for my car. In the past I would just go to autozone and have them ck it but I feel I fix and repair my own vehicles so much I should just buy one .
> 
> I have been shopping on amazone and there are so fing many to choise from and the price range is anywhere from 15$ to 2000$
> 
> ...


The inexpensive tools work just fine. These read a code and will allow your to erase the code as well. The $2000 scanners are for tech that go much deeper into diagnosing driveability/CE issues.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Thor said:


> It could make sense. The price of used cars is pretty high these days, at least for something with less than 100k miles on it.
> 
> Looking up the common Toyota Corolla prices on KBB shows the following. A mid level 2018 stick shift no additional options vehicle shows a typical actual price around $22k. A used 2012 mid level stick shift with no additional options sells in a private sale for about $8500. The used vehicle has 81,000 miles on it.
> 
> ...


those maintenance costs seem rather high to me. if we tally up all the repairs we have done to my wifes honda civic over the last 9 years, it probably totals about 5k. but, the honda is at about 260K miles. and we havent paid any payments on it during those 9 years, nor have we paid for full coverage insurance. then again, we have done all of the work for it save for getting the heads re-machined. everything else, we did ourselves. 

regardless, that is not counting the depreciation in value. buying a new car and driving 80k miles depreciates the value of the vehicle you quoted by 13,500 dollars, if you can then sell it for about 8,500. that is a 13.5k dollar loss in value on top of the interest and the extra insurance payments over the time that vehicle was driven and paid for. just driving it off the lot will mean you own a car that is immediately worth about 20% less than you paid for it. so before you even get it home, your new vehicle has already lost 4400 dollars in value. which is almost as much as i have spent over 9 years on our honda civic, after 200K miles. now, if you have the money, you can avoid the financing costs and full coverage insurance costs of buying new by simply buying it in cash. but that doesn't help with the 20-30% loss in value before the end of the first year. 

of course, it might be cheaper to go with a new car for someone who has no idea how to do their own maintenance on their vehicles. in our case, we buy used and our vehicles depreciate very little in value, so long as they are not totaled in a car accident. since we do our own repair and maintenance work, it usually doesn't cost us more than parts.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I pulled those maintenance costs from several different websites which claimed they had extensive repair databases. They compared numerous different makes and models. I know my Audi runs me hugely more in maintenance and repair than a Toyota Corolla!

For me, the goal is to have an adequate mid-level vehicle with the minimum total cost of ownership over the next 20 years. That represents about 150k miles given my current driving habits. I looked at buying one new car and driving it the entire distance, or buying a sequence of used cars. A new car would not be traded after a few years, which means the depreciation doesn't matter. I expect in 20 years to have a $0 value for whatever I was driving. I don't care what the car may be worth in a year or in 10 years because I plan on keeping it 20 years.

My initial plan was to buy a good used vehicle approximately 2 yrs old, with the plan on selling it after about 8 years, then replacing it with another used vehicle of lower mileage. But the cost of a 2 yr old vehicle is quite high, and it comes with all the risks of major expenses without warranty. Mathematically if one plans to keep a vehicle until it has no resale value, buying new isn't more expensive than buying a series of used cars. 

Where it makes no sense is to buy new and then replace it after 4 or 5 years with another new car. That's what most new car buyers do, and they indeed do lose a lot of money to depreciation.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> I've got this one and use Torque pro on an out of service cell phone for it. Works fantastic, you can display instruments if you want (tach, oil pressure, temp, etc.), clear codes, review history, deep scan, the works. Around $30 total. I bought it when I was car shopping and most of the cars I checked had just been cleared. Deep scan still caught them.
> 
> Do you really prefer to spend a bunch of money to avoid 5 minutes downloading an app?


This is the right answer. Unless you want to pay a small fortune for a decent handheld scan tool, one of the Bluetooth readers / smart phone / Torque Pro are the way to go. Not only do you get the code checking/clearing ability, but you can graph your data to see where you might have a problem. The cheaper handhelds will not give you the graphing ability.

I too enjoy fixing my own cars, saved a lot of money over the years. Just used my Bluetooth reader to solve an issue on my stepson's car. Was popping a bad catalytic converter code, but using the graphing capability, I could see that one of the O2 sensors was not reacting correctly. Would never have seen it without the graphing capability. After a little more looking, it was actually a vacuum leak causing the car to run rich, which was messing with the O2 sensor. 

P.S. if you have a VW / Audi, OBDeleven is the best thing going. Not only can you read codes, you can get into the actual coding of the computer to make changes if necessary and perform checks of individual components.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

chillymorn69 said:


> Because I don't do car loans.
> 
> I haven't had a car payment in 20yrs. I buy decent used for 3000 to 5000$ cash.
> 
> ...


I've got the worst of both worlds. I drive a new car, so I've got the higher cost associated with that. And I also have a very good buddy with an old car that seems to break semi-regularly that I fix for him for free. It had been sitting a few months and last weekend it wouldn't start so I checked and the fusable link for his starter was bad, and I swapped it out. Now it cranks but won't run so I've got to check for spark and fuel delivery issues sometime in the next week. I'll be glad when he gets rid of that car. 

Oh, for the OP, there's an app on your phone you can use to scan your car depending on the age of the vehicle. I think it takes a code reader adapter that you have to plug into your car. My buddy has one and likes it because it can give you more info on how your car is running.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> I'll be glad when he gets rid of that car.


I feel you man. When I "did" repair friends and families cars every stinking problem from then on out was mine to sort. Every squeak, groan, non-start, squealing and rattle I owned because I replaced 4 spark plugs and a fuel filter 12 months ago. :scratchhead: I no longer work on family/friends cars as a result. Furthermore, I have 6 cars. I have enough to tinker with and keep maintenance on.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> Because I don't do car loans.
> 
> I haven't had a car payment in 20yrs. I buy decent used for 3000 to 5000$ cash.


About 1/3 the amount one should have in an emergency fund. I agree.



chillymorn69 said:


> Maybe spend 3 to 4 weekend a year fixing them . I have 3 cars by the way.


I typically spend one day per year giving each of the 3 cars a lightweight exterior detail. I have no garage, so they're subject to bird and tree droppings. Basically, I do clay-bar, then a very light buffing, then coat of 12-month polymer wax. This basically means that bird droppings land on wax, not paint, so the paint doesn't get etched. Etched paint exposes metal and starts rust.



chillymorn69 said:


> Now let me ask you how much your car payment is?


I make one payment per car, at the time of purchase. Back in the 1980s, I succumbed to the belief that you "had to build a credit rating" if you wanted a house (you don't), and got a loan for a car that I could have just paid for. It was a 24 month loan, and felt like a monkey on my back, and I could only take a few months of it, so I paid it off after like 3 payments. Ugh.



chillymorn69 said:


> How much your extra ins on a new car is?


Very little. I was surprised. At my age, car insurance rates are predominantly about my driving record (spotless for 30 years), my rate of claims (very low), and where I live (outside the city).

I 'traded' cars in 2015. Went from a '96 Acura Integra with 420,000 miles on it to a two-year old Infiniti G37 Sport...so, not only newer, but also went from economy model to performance model. My premiums went from $320 to $360. Not bad.

I had purchased the Acura in 2004 for $3500, with 170,000 miles on it already. In case you're not aware of what that is, an Integra is basically a Japan-spec Honda Civic. So it's a bit smaller, with just a bit more engine power and a more aggressive suspension, and often luxury touches such as leather seats. Previous owner had replaced the clutch recently, and also the front brake linings. Rear brakes were original, and nothing else other than wiper blades, spark plugs and light bulbs had been done. To get it to 420,000 miles, I did regular maintenance per the schedule, plus spent one Saturday finding and fixing a water leak into the trunk. That's all.

I had been wanting a "sleeper" for a while - a car that looked kind of ordinary but cornered like it was on rails. And I'd been saving for it. 2015 turned out to be the year because a family member fell into need for a car. I went over that Acura with a fine-toothed comb. I found slight engine oil leaks and spent one afternoon changing the oil pan gasket and valve cover gasket. That saved me all of $250, but I was about to give the car away and was trying to minimize costs for that one occasion. I also took an afternoon and buffed out the paint, making it look new. I then changed every fluid it contained, and also replaced the brake pads front and back, not that they needed it - but so the other family member could have 2 years or 30,000 miles without having to do anything. Entire unscheduled maintenance cost for that car over the 250,000 miles I put on it was around $600 in 10 years and I did pay mechanics for most of it. The Infiniti I bought for over $20,000, never had paid anything like that for a car, but it might be my last. And I paid cash for it. Also bought a brand-new Prius for my now ex-wife that year, also paid cash. She put on extended warranty so that she has a warranty on a car until she's 82 years old.



chillymorn69 said:


> And what do you spend your time on that you can't put in a few days a year saving thousands of dollars? Plus lots of newer cars break down.


I've never had even very old cars break down. I've never been stranded. My philosophy has developed into this one: if a car requires a repair that costs more than a set of tires, then I get rid of it. The only vehicle I've gotten rid of for this reason was a Toyota pickup with over 400,000 miles on it that needed an engine rebuild. During its lifetime, it never required anything more than a $180 catalytic converter - that was the installed price at a muffler shop that put a lifetime warranty on it. OK, yeah, tires are always more than that but they're wear and tear.

I spend my time in the company of others, making new friends, doing community things. I don't thrive on things or solo work.



chillymorn69 said:


> My kds are almost grown. And them seeing how to fix things and save some money I tink is good.
> 
> Instead of being like sheep following the heard or keeping up with the jones's
> 
> ...


What is it about your way of purchasing cars that they end up needing so much? Hondas are reliable...my Acura never needed a repair except for the trunk leak, and I've put over 300,000 miles on two different Civics and never did anything other than routine maintenance.

I spent very little time on cars not because I pay mechanics to work on them - but because the cars don't demand the time. Until 2015, I never bought a car younger than 10 years, or with less than 150,000 miles of use on it.

OK, not true...back in the 1970s, I ended up with lots of cast-off family cars. Typically 3-5 years old, with 50,000 to 70,000 mile on them, mostly Chevy, Buick and Ford, but none were reliable. For a car of that vintage to hit 100,000 miles, you'd probably have changed out the transmission already, and certainly my GM product needed something electrical done every year. But the whole car industry seemed to learn to make them much more durable somewhere in the mid-1980s...the Japanese at first, then followed by the Americans in the mid-1990s.

Based on the experience of my friends who own Audis, VWs and BMWs, those cars still can't be expected to make even 200,000 miles without costly repairs, so I've avoided them...I did own a few Audis and loved the driving experience, but the cost of parts, much less labor, keeps me from ever doing it again!




chillymorn69 said:


> Bought a 2002 accord for 3600$ drove 2yrs without a problem this weekend spent 2hrs replacing the coil pack. That includes driving 20min onevway to get the part.


Whereas the four Honda products I've owned are all older, still in the family, and none have ever required ignition work. Are you in an area where they use salt on the roads? I understand salt causes electrical components to degrade faster. And exhaust systems. I probably am not too keenly aware of how much the environment in other 
areas accelerates wear on cars.



chillymorn69 said:


> I try for debt free living if I can't pay cash then I can't afford it.


Absolutely. Keep $15k sitting somewhere in case you suddenly need to replace the house's roof (has happened to me) or for something medical that insurance doesn't cover. For anything else, you can plan, and start "making payments" into savings account ahead of time.

My only car loan lasted a few months and was over 30 years ago. Paid off my house by age 45, and after that, only upgraded homes when I could pay the difference in cash.

VERY glad I chose that way of living because it meant I was never 'owned' by a bank, mortgage company or absolutely HAD to have a job.



chillymorn69 said:


> Funny thing is now That I could afford to buy a new vehicle or for someone to fix it I just despise paying for something I can do myself.


Looking at the books in my cars, where I keep records of repairs...the last things I've had done were:

2015 - replaced battery (wear and tear item) in brother's Accord - was 8 years on the old battery.

2013 - Replaced front brake linings on 2002 Tacoma truck, first time, at 190k miles.


I'm cheating a bit, as I'm not counting what I've done for my girlfriend's car. It was neglected for a long time as her ex-husband didn't want to do a damned thing. It's a 2001 Nissan with 225,000 miles. I gave it a valve cover gasket, to stop the oil leak (90 minutes and $25). Then took it to my mechanic for a full tune-up ($80) and got very aggressive ice tires on it ($550). She's a hospice nurse, travels to people's homes and they don't get days off work for bad weather. Also, a work requirement is that her car be clean, as she may have to transport patients...so the radio antenna, stuck in the "up" position, had to be dealt with. Couldn't even FIND a mechanic or dealer to work on it because the OEM part can't be had, so I found an aftermarket mast ($30) and spent 30 minutes modifying the OEM power antenna to accept it. I also buffed out the fogged up plastic headlights, that takes all of 10 minutes. That's all the car required after ten years of nobody doing anything for it.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> About 1/3 the amount one should have in an emergency fund. I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where you from?

I can tell you that cars do not last in pa for more than 170k to 200k.

Lol lots of salt! And very hilly! With pot holes bigger than your car!


Lol,lol,lol


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

This youtube poster is really into diagnostics, maybe much more involved than many people want to be involved.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ScannerDanner/playlists

Also "Erick the Car Guy" on Youtube has some good videos.

Car parts, go online and check out Rockauto.com. If you need a part with a good warranty, some Auto Zones will match online prices BUT the online part has to be exactly the same part number and with the exact same warranty as AutoZone has on their part. 1A Auto.com parts has some good warranties Auto Zone matched, but the store manager might not play ball.

I retired as a auto mechanic many years ago and did other work for a while. My scanner is an older INNOVA OBD2/OBD1 Scan Tool. I won't brag about it but it does the job most of the time. I have older and newer cars so I wanted the OBD-1 capability. If I have a light on, I use my scanner and if I need something more sophisticated, I go to the auto parts stores.

My guess is one of the better smart phone combinations would be better than what I own.

DustyDog, way to go on your experiences concerning cars. No new cars for me. The depreciation sucks. the house has been paid for a long time ago. Now the taxes and insurance are about what the original mortgage was 45 years ago.

My neighbor owns a European car repair shop and I am amazed how expensive those cars are to repair PLUS how difficult it is to obtain factory tools and repair literature to work on those cars. I worked for a Toyota dealer for 10 years and nothing was nearly as costly as the European car parts.


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## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

Okay, I'm here, lol. 

The costs on scan tools are going down more and more from the bigger brands (Snap on, Marco, MAC), because they are trying to get more scan tools into the hands to oil changers and tire techs.

Now, there are some Bluetooth ones that are great for the backyard mechanic that cost less than $100. The only issue with some.of those is that sometimes you have to buy their "package" to access more in-depth software to do things things like TPMS resets or lift gate or automatic backdoor opener controls. Beyond that, I still recommend them to people. Innova makes a good one and there company behind Matco makes a good one.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> Where you from?
> 
> I can tell you that cars do not last in pa for more than 170k to 200k.
> 
> ...


Look up "Rust Belt". There are 15 states that use considerable amounts of salt on the roads, and 10 that do so only very rarely. All other states use no salt, and many of the "no salt" states are higher population, such as California. So, "rusted out" cars are actually a minority.

I grew up in Michigan at a time when a car was expected to have "rust perforation" before it was 5 years old. I moved from there to Georgia, and my next-door neighbor had a 20-year-old Mustang up on blocks that he'd sanded to bare metal five years earlier. It just sat there with the faintest patina of oxidation, no rust perforation.

I moved west of the Mississippi in '85, to Colorado, and since that day, I have never had to deal with rust of any kind on a vehicle. Have not had exhaust system problems since then, and get WAY more miles out of brake system parts than I knew was possible.

Consumer Reports has commented on this, that the budget for unscheduled vehicle repairs, overall, in rust belt states, should be doubled, compared with states that don't use salt. Over the life of the car. Accordingly, I have noticed that 10 year old cars in, say, Illinois, have MUCH lower resale values than the same cars in Western states. Not that I'd drive to Illinois to save $3,000 on a rusty car, LOLOLOLOL


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