# The Pain and Frustration of a Rejected Wife



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I am so angry and hurt! My husband regularly rejects me or keeps a lackluster attitude about intimacy. I've been dealing with this for months now, and it's taking a serious toll on me mentally. My self esteem is really suffering.

Dealing with rejection as wife and woman is uniquely painful, as men are supposed to be horny and ready to go all of the time. When *my* man doesn't live up to this expectation, then I feel so unsexy, unwanted, like a failure.

For months, I've felt like the only woman on earth with this problem. All of the women in my circle of friends complain that their husbands chase them non-stop. When they gripe and joke about it, I fake-laugh along with them, but inside I'm feeling sheepish and flawed. For months, it's been my little secret frustration. I did confide to my best girlfriend, and she had little sympathy for me. She actually said, "What a nice dilemma to have!"

In one way, I'm happy to have found this forum, as now I don't feel so alone. I never would have thought other women deal with this problem. I always thought men want sex all the time from anyone.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/98817-ld-husband-journal.html

Welcome.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I read the first two pages of posts, and I plan to read the rest over time (150 pages!). I do feel a mixture of emotions. It helps that to know I'm not the only woman on earth going through this.

I haven't read the final pages, so I don't know whether you resolved the imbalance yet. How do or did you cope? I feel so unwanted, unattractive and powerless. In the past, I was accustomed to having it just about whenever I wanted it.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

kTc said:


> Dealing with rejection as wife and woman is uniquely painful, as men are supposed to be horny and ready to go all of the time. When *my* man doesn't live up to this expectation, then I feel so unsexy, unwanted, like a failure.


OK, so maybe your expectations need to change. all men are not the same. Just as all women are not the same.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

michzz said:


> OK, so maybe your expectations need to change. all men are not the same. Just as all women are not the same.


Well, they're changing, and they're changing quickly. I think we need to change society's view. These stereotypes are particularly harmful to women.


----------



## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

The first question I find to always be helpful is: was is always like this, or did something suddenly change a few months ago? Finances, stress, kids, health, etc. Lots of possible factors.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

kTc said:


> I read the first two pages of posts, and I plan to read the rest over time (150 pages!). I do feel a mixture of emotions. It helps that to know I'm not the only woman on earth going through this.
> 
> I haven't read the final pages, so I don't know whether you resolved the imbalance yet. How do or did you cope? I feel so unwanted, unattractive and powerless. In the past, I was accustomed to having it just about whenever I wanted it.


It's not a happy ending... so far. But there are small improvements. 

It's a long and difficult journey, and a lot of the time I still feel as hopeless and lost as I was at the beginning. 

I think my thread is more a story of self improvement, rather than improvement of my LD husband. Which is what I originally wanted. 

How do I cope? 

For a long time I cried. Now I try to keep myself busy with other things, and make sure I take care of my needs myself. I'm leaning more towards indifference all the time, I'm not sure that it is the best way, but it helps you survive. I wouldn't say I've mastered coping. Some days I don't handle well at all, like today.

But other days everything is great. I'd say on average I have more good days than bad now. (And that doesn't mean better sex or more sex.) That means I've changed MY attitude and MY perspective.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Have you thought about what it is that might bring out more interest from your husband?

You mention he is not living up to your expectations. Are you certain you are living up to his? Not trying to be accusatory, just wondering if both things could be going on.


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I hate the stereotype that men think about sex 24/7 and want it all the time, because it is not true. I can see that with my own husband. 

My husband rejected me for several months, time after time when I would try to initiate sex. We talked about it often and only recently has he been more interested in sex. 

There are a lot of possible reasons for why a man is low drive, but have you looked into any of them?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Also, good questions to have answered up front are:

1) What frequency would make you happy?
2) What frequency would your H be happy with?
3) When you do make love, how many times is it good to great vs number of times it's perceived by you to be "duty sex"?
4) What is your current frequency for sex? One/day, one/week, one/month, or other?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kTc said:


> Well, they're changing, and they're changing quickly. I think we need to change society's view. These stereotypes are particularly harmful to women.


I think a non-gay male IS supposed to desire and lust for women.

It's by DESIGN in our species as other species.

In the event a bull has been castrated and had his testicles removed or a dog spayed, then that changes thing.

Do you really want all men as some submissive creatures who no longer desire women?


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

TheCuriousWife said:


> It's not a happy ending... so far. But there are small improvements.
> 
> It's a long and difficult journey, and a lot of the time I still feel as hopeless and lost as I was at the beginning.
> 
> ...


I've done so much crying. It's at the worst times too. Right after trying to initiate and being shot down. I lie in bed at night, just feet away from my husband, crying while he sleeps.

I do appreciate your replies; they have already helped my loneliness.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Forest said:


> Have you thought about what it is that might bring out more interest from your husband?
> 
> You mention he is not living up to your expectations. Are you certain you are living up to his? Not trying to be accusatory, just wondering if both things could be going on.


Over the last few months, I've tried tons of things. I've made comments, sent text messages, worn lingerie, arrived in bed naked. Nothing has really worked any better than the rest. My success seems to be random.

He very rarely initiates. I think I want that back more than anything. It makes me feel wanted, desired, like a woman.


----------



## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

How long have you been married? What are you ages?

Has he seen a doctor to have his testosterone levels check? You need to rule out any medical reasons first. Insist he see a doctor.

Does he watch a lot of porn?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

kTc said:


> Over the last few months, I've tried tons of things. I've made comments, sent text messages, worn lingerie, arrived in bed naked. Nothing has really worked any better than the rest. My success seems to be random.
> 
> He very rarely initiates. *I think I want that back more than anything. * It makes me feel wanted, desired, like a woman.


So, he used to initiate regularly in the past and sex was more frequent in the past? Has he had his T levels checked or even thyroid? Are there other symptoms like a general lack of energy to do anything, or things he used to enjoy that he no longer does?


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> I hate the stereotype that men think about sex 24/7 and want it all the time, because it is not true. I can see that with my own husband.
> 
> My husband rejected me for several months, time after time when I would try to initiate sex. We talked about it often and only recently has he been more interested in sex.
> 
> There are a lot of possible reasons for why a man is low drive, but have you looked into any of them?


I'm just beginning my research, actually. Things cooled off for a long time, and as I got a bit older, I began to realize that life is short. I wanted to bring that part of our life and marriage back.

I started with subtle hints. He didn't really respond. I upped my hints, and still didn't really get the reaction I hoped for. Then, I flat out started throwing myself at him and begging for it.

He would sometimes acquiesce, but usually without a lot of genuine enthusiasm.

It's has been humiliating for me.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

James2020 said:


> The first question I find to always be helpful is: was is always like this, or did something suddenly change a few months ago? Finances, stress, kids, health, etc. Lots of possible factors.


Well, our only child left for college a couple of years ago. Suddenly we found our lives with a lot more free time and a lot less stress. I was and still am hoping that we can reconnect using some of that time.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Forest said:


> Have you thought about what it is that might bring out more interest from your husband?
> 
> You mention he is not living up to your expectations. Are you certain you are living up to his? Not trying to be accusatory, just wondering if both things could be going on.


Well, aside from this complaint (frequency and him initiating), he's a wonderful man and husband, a true gentleman. He's always been a hard worker and has provided for our family through the years. We feel alike on so many issues: parenting our son, finances, how we spend our time together (minus this one activity).

Well, I am no longer a twenty-something spring chicken, but I think I've held up pretty well through the decades. We're both in good shape and exercise regularly. We're both at healthy weights. In fact, I've actually been weight lifting for the past year or so, to try to tone up and up my desirability.

I guess I feel a certain amount of vulnerability at this stage in life, and his lack of interest is heightening that feeling.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

treyvion said:


> I think a non-gay male IS supposed to desire and lust for women.
> 
> It's by DESIGN in our species as other species.
> 
> ...


He's fully intact, thankfully! I absolutely do not want a submissive creature. I want my man back. I want to be grabbed, taken, caressed, wanted, needed, desired. I want him to want me!


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> Over the last few months, I've tried tons of things. I've made comments, sent text messages, worn lingerie, arrived in bed naked. Nothing has really worked any better than the rest. My success seems to be random.
> 
> He very rarely initiates. I think I want that back more than anything. It makes me feel wanted, desired, like a woman.


So what non blatantly sexual things have you done? That may be part of the problem here. If he has a non sexual need that is not being filled by you, and yet all you are doing is throwing sex at him...that would be like throwing roofing nails at a starving person and expecting them not to be hungry any more.

I do agree that social stereotypes do need to be shot down and reconsidered. I think the assumption and conventional wisdom you had bought into regarding how men are supposed to be is very damaging to men.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

kTc,
Men feel much the same, most of your feelings I echo, and I am not in a sexless marriage, just in a mismatched drives marriage. Yes the doctor is the first step, just in case.
MN


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Also, good questions to have answered up front are:
> 
> 1) What frequency would make you happy?
> 2) What frequency would your H be happy with?
> ...


1. One a week would be ideal. More would be nice but I'd actually settle for less, particularly if he'd initiate.
2. I'm not sure. I guess I could ask.
3. For the last couple of years, it's felt more like an obligatory routine from him rather then a genuine exciting event.
4. I think I try a couple of times a week. We probably actually complete the act every couple of weeks. But, I'm so weary of getting shot down, that I probably only try a fraction of the time that I want to.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

karole said:


> How long have you been married? What are you ages?
> 
> Has he seen a doctor to have his testosterone levels check? You need to rule out any medical reasons first. Insist he see a doctor.
> 
> Does he watch a lot of porn?


We've been married 20 years. We're in our mid forties.

No, he hasn't. I don't think that he thinks there is any problem. I have broached the topic with him, and he just doesn't understand the significance.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

karole said:


> How long have you been married? What are you ages?
> 
> Has he seen a doctor to have his testosterone levels check? You need to rule out any medical reasons first. Insist he see a doctor.
> 
> Does he watch a lot of porn?


I forgot to address your last question. I'm not sure. If he does, he's not very open about it. He works a lot, runs his own business, and keeps a fair number of hours at his office. I suppose he could be partaking then, but I'd be surprised.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> kTc,
> Men feel much the same, most of your feelings I echo, and I am not in a sexless marriage, just in a mismatched drives marriage. Yes the doctor is the first step, just in case.
> MN


I've heard this clichéd complaint from men my entire life of course, but I don't think I truly understood the depths of this kind of pain until a couple of years ago.

I'm now at my wit's end.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> So what non blatantly sexual things have you done? That may be part of the problem here. If he has a non sexual need that is not being filled by you, and yet all you are doing is throwing sex at him...that would be like throwing roofing nails at a starving person and expecting them not to be hungry any more.
> 
> I do agree that social stereotypes do need to be shot down and reconsidered. I think the assumption and conventional wisdom you had bought into regarding how men are supposed to be is very damaging to men.


Well, I feel like we have a very healthy marriage outside of this one inconsistency. We are affectionate. Despite his work ethic, we almost always make it a point to spend time together in the evenings. We nearly always have dinner together and relax afterward.

Lately (the last couple of years), I've been trying to gravitate after-dinner entertainment toward intimacy, without much luck. He's up for cuddling during movies, and we are quite affectionate otherwise.

Maybe I need to bluntly, directly ask him what we can do to fix this?


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> Well, I feel like we have a very healthy marriage outside of this one inconsistency. We are affectionate. Despite his work ethic, we almost always make it a point to spend time together in the evenings. We nearly always have dinner together and relax afterward.
> 
> Lately (the last couple of years), I've been trying to gravitate after-dinner entertainment toward intimacy, without much luck. He's up for cuddling during movies, and we are quite affectionate otherwise.
> 
> *Maybe I need to bluntly, directly ask him what we can do to fix this*?


This is a great idea, though be prepared to have to get creative in drawing it out of him.

One of the things for me that is a sure desire killer is when my wife and I are home from work and I ask how her day went, and she says something along the lines of "fine" without expanding at all. I know I have done nothing wrong, so I know she is not upset with me, but it feels as if she has closed a part of herself off.


----------



## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

You say things cooled and now you want to bring it back. Why did things cool? Is it possible he feels like you ignored his sexual needs for a while? Not saying it's your fault, but it has been known to happen.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> This is a great idea, though be prepared to have to get creative in drawing it out of him.
> 
> One of the things for me that is a sure desire killer is when my wife and I are home from work and I ask how her day went, and she says something along the lines of "fine" without expanding at all. I know I have done nothing wrong, so I know she is not upset with me, but it feels as if she has closed a part of herself off.


I'll muster up the courage to open this conversation tonight.

I just can't help feeling disappointed that I have to take so much responsibility for our intimacy. I shouldn't have to work this hard to catch my husband's interest.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I Don't Know said:


> You say things cooled and now you want to bring it back. Why did things cool? Is it possible he feels like you ignored his sexual needs for a while? Not saying it's your fault, but it has been known to happen.


There were stressful times in the past in our lives. Finances and free time were tight in the past. In all honesty, there were probably times, particularly in the first few years as new mother, when I could have been more receptive to him.

I realize now that was a mistake, and I don't want us to spend the rest of our lives like this.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

No man in his late 40s and older performs like a man in his 20s and 30s--fact.

A lot of factors in the dropping libido.

You can chose to believe it is a personal rejection of yourself, or you can find out what exactly it could be OTHER than that before arriving at that opinion.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> I'll muster up the courage to open this conversation tonight.
> 
> I just can't help feeling disappointed that I have to take so much responsibility for our intimacy. *I shouldn't have to work this hard to catch my husband's interest*.





kTc said:


> There were stressful times in the past in our lives. Finances and free time were tight in the past. *In all honesty, there were probably times, particularly in the first few years as new mother, when I could have been more receptive to him.*
> 
> I realize now that was a mistake, and I don't want us to spend the rest of our lives like this.


Is it possible that he felt this way in the past about you?


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

michzz said:


> No man in his late 40s and older performs like a man in his 20s and 30s--fact.
> 
> A lot of factors in the dropping libido.
> 
> You can chose to believe it is a personal rejection of yourself, or you can find out what exactly it could be OTHER than that before arriving at that opinion.


I think I understand that, and I accept that. I'm not looking for the rabbit days that we had before our son was born. Although, I wouldn't complain .

Is once a week out of the question for a man in his 40s? Surely once every two weeks is achievable?

Even with less frequency, I'd be immensely helped, particularly my confidence and self-esteem, if the initiation was less lopsided like it is now.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

kTc said:


> There were stressful times in the past in our lives. Finances and free time were tight in the past. In all honesty, there were probably times, particularly in the first few years as new mother, when I could have been more receptive to him.
> 
> I realize now that was a mistake, and I don't want us to spend the rest of our lives like this.


If there was a history of you not being receptive to him, it's possible he's either carrying around resentment which is preventing him from responding, or may have "switched off". Many people experience this as a means of maintaining their own sanity. He may be suspicious that this is a temporary change and doesn't want to go down that path again.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If you haven't directly discussed this issue with him, that's where you need to start.

Also ask yourself why this discussion would be difficult? You may find some answers that apply to the whole situation in that question to yourself. Ie: lack of open communication is deadly to a coupled sex life.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> Is it possible that he felt this way in the past about you?


That's such a gentle question, and yet it is hard to read. It's possible. There have been times in our marriage where he's expressed more desire than I have. That was mainly when we were raising our child and under tremendous pressures. Still, even when I was experiencing lower desire, we still had good frequency. As a courtesy, I rarely ever declined. I never thought it was much of a big deal, but it was never so lopsided as now.

I'll swallow my pride and ask him that tonight, too.


----------



## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

kTc said:


> Dealing with rejection as wife and woman is uniquely painful, as men are supposed to be horny and ready to go all of the time. When *my* man doesn't live up to this expectation, then I feel so unsexy, unwanted, like a failure.
> 
> For months, I've felt like the only woman on earth with this problem. *All of the women in my circle of friends complain that their husbands chase them non-stop. When they gripe and joke about it, I fake-laugh along with them, but inside I'm feeling sheepish and flawed. For months, it's been my little secret frustration. I did confide to my best girlfriend, and she had little sympathy for me. She actually said, "What a nice dilemma to have!"*


Wow. I can't begin to tell you how disturbing the bolded part is to me. This is your circle of friends. Is this how you felt at one time?

Trust me, rejection hurts men every bit as much. Especially repeated rejection from the woman who vowed to love you. The woman you gave up all other women for.

Talk to him. Find out what's going on. It could be a thousand things. He may not want to talk about it. He could be embarrassed or unsure what the problem is. Keep trying and make him trust that he can let you in.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> If you haven't directly discussed this issue with him, that's where you need to start.
> 
> Also ask yourself why this discussion would be difficult? You may find some answers that apply to the whole situation in that question to yourself. Ie: *lack of open communication is deadly to a coupled sex life*.


Absolute truth.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> If you haven't directly discussed this issue with him, that's where you need to start.
> 
> Also ask yourself why this discussion would be difficult? You may find some answers that apply to the whole situation in that question to yourself. Ie: lack of open communication is deadly to a coupled sex life.


It's difficult, because I'm not accustomed to taking the lead with our intimacy. It's honestly not the role I want to assume. I want him to be aggressive and take me.

I feel we do have open communication on just about everything else: parenting, finances, family, etc. We just don't talk much about sex.

This is all so nerve racking. I just want to fix this as soon as possible, and the suspense of talking it out is rough.


----------



## bestwife (May 10, 2014)

Don't give up, everything must be resolved sooner or later.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If the very idea of discussing your marital sex life causes you anxiety, then this itself is part of your problems and it means you have a part in this, too.

This is YOUR marriage and YOUR sex life. If you are "afraid" of discussing such martial topics, then this is a clue you need to be more open to communication yourself. 

What harm do you think will happen to you or him by simply discussing your sex life?


----------



## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

ktc-my heart goes out to you! I have been involved with men's health issues for several years now (along with my urologist) and sometimes I just do not understand "MEN"! Most know that they must keep the home fires burning but for whatever reason -- don't. I also believe that for the most part, subconsciously, they know they have a problem but just will not see a doctor and apply whatever remedy needed to fix THEIR issue.

intimacy (sex) is very good for their health and the health of the woman in their lives not to mention the health of their relationship with this woman. Maybe you need to drag him, albeit kicking and screaming, to a doctor and get tested to find if there is a medical causation for his problem.

I wish you the best!


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

So often we end up guessing so much here. At this point I think I understand enough history. I would say that this dry spell is 2 years or less. Before that you were at least 8x that frequency for most of your marriage (4x per week). There was no slow decline it was more of a sudden drop. You are still active enough to know whether or not he has erection problems. 
I suspect empty nest syndrome most of all. Suddenly after 18 years the buffer between you (your son) is gone and you only have each other to deal with. No hiding. No school functions. He is using work as a dodge to avoid the change (men hate change). 
I have a lot of questions to answer at this point, so this might get long.
Once a week is what I am suffering through. Physically a man of 45 who isn't obese is not risking anything by having sex at that frequency. 
About your talk tonight. Yes it is important. There is a pretty good chance that it will only be the start to a solution. Don't make the mistake that I did/do. If he answers your questions with "I don't know" believe him. He is probably as confused as you are about why his drive has dropped. Be prepared to compromise. He may not be able to muster enough desire to initiate every other week. Try to remove the pressure. It's way to early for ultimatums. Do talk about feelings. 
You share movies together. Who picks the movie. Are you feeding him a diet of chick flicks? ( I ask because you said you were trying to introduce romance again) Mix in action movies, especially with good looking men. Getting his heart racing will get his heart racing. Too much eye candy for him might turn him off. Communicate about this. 
Movies are low pressure together time. Less communication means less chance of an awkward silence. You should mix in some more active together time when you can.
You are venturing into uncomfortable territory. You are doing it out of desperation. Hopefully he will be more comfortable than you are but he may not. Good luck.
MN


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> That's such a gentle question, and yet it is hard to read. It's possible. There have been times in our marriage where he's expressed more desire than I have. That was mainly when we were raising our child and under tremendous pressures. Still, even when I was experiencing lower desire, we still had good frequency. As a courtesy, I rarely ever declined. I never thought it was much of a big deal, but it was never so lopsided as now.
> 
> I'll swallow my pride and ask him that tonight, too.


I'm not talk so much about sexually, but were there times where he may have felt like he was on the back burner as you focused on the kids and other things? That he was maybe more an accessory to your life than the center of it?

One of the things that is happening as men and women move towards more parity in different aspects of life, and marriages is that men are realizing that they no longer have to settle for the stereotypical male roles in marriage anymore than women have to settle for the stereotypical female roles. Many of the same intimacy issues women report in marriages affect men too, and as social stereotypes fall, men are becoming more comfortable with expressing those needs.


----------



## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

kTc said:


> Maybe I need to bluntly, directly ask him what we can do to fix this?


:iagree:


----------



## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

You're definitely not alone kTc. But be certain the wives aren't alone in the sexual frustration camp. It's a blow to your self esteem no matter your gender.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

KTC, have you had a chance to speak to him yet?


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I think it could very well be resentment from when the shoe was on the other foot. Coupled with age and working too much.

I hate to even suggest this but are you sure there isn't another woman? or porn?

are you generous in the bed room or a pillow queen who doesn't return the favor.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Yesterday, I did speak shortly to my husband about our sex life. I asked him why we don't make love more often. He said that if I want more sex, then we can have more sex. It was hardly the glowing endorsement I was hoping for.

I asked him if he wanted more sex. He said he was very happy with our sex life and our lives in general. I asked if he'd like to connect more often, and again he said that if I want to then that's fine with him. He said to just let him know when, as he's not a mind reader.

I became nervous the longer we spoke about it, and with his lackluster responses, I lost my confidence. I didn't even try to initiate yesterday evening.

I was disappointed with myself for letting the issue drop so fast. But today, I brought the issue up again more directly, which I'll describe in the next post.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Today, he returned from the office relatively early. Knowing this might be a more intense discussion that yesterday, I let him relax and unwind for about an hour before I renewed yesterday's discussion.

I began by telling him that I love him, and I miss the way our sex life once was. I told him that I need to reconnect more often. He said that was fine by him (again). I said it's actually more than that, and I wanted to speak to it yesterday but lost my nerve. I told him I need to feel more wanted, and that I need him to initiate more often. I excitedly told him that I want to be grabbed and taken into the bedroom. I told him that I yearn for his enthusiastic pursuit. I told him that we're still so young, with so much life ahead of ourselves, and that we should be sharing our intimacy together as often as we're both willing to.

He remained quiet as a spoke, but his subtle facial reactions were not forming the expression I was hoping for.

I spoke gently about how progressively over the last two years, I've felt unwanted, and even left behind sexually. I talked about how being the primary pursuer has made me lose some feelings of confidence and attractiveness. I said that as a woman, I needed him to initiate more often to make me feel feminine, and desirable.

That's where he spoke up.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

He's a composed man, a true gentleman. He commands very strong control over his emotions, which has probably served him well in business. When I first met him, he was extremely difficult to read. Over the years, I have learned to glean his emotions from subtle facial cues and voice tones.

Listening to me, he became quite irritated, nearly angry. He never raised his voice or yelled, but the deliberate way that he strung together his response told me he was likely angry.

His immediate response (which probably felt reckless to him), was when did I change my mind? I said that these feelings had been gradually growing over the last couple of years. He said no, when did you desire me again?

That took me aback. I told him I have always desired him.

He interrupted me and began citing general times in our marriage when I've been reluctant or outright against intimacy. Many of them were certainly true, although as a percentage of our marriage, I believe they account for a very small fraction of the decades we've been together.

There was no convincing him. He continued.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

He said there was a time in his twenties when he wanted me thrice a day. But I was the limiting factor.

He reminded me that very early in our relationship I (more than once) informed him that marriages are much more than "just sex."

Nearly in a mean-spirited fashion he looked right at me and said that I taught him that, and that I was right.

I am tearing up now. The man takes honesty to unparalleled levels, so I have no doubt that I said something years ago in my naive youth to that effect. It is true that early in our marriage, in my twenties, I foolishly didn't appreciate the sensuality and intimacy that accompanies sex. Perhaps I articulated myself insensitively back then. But we've had years upon years since then. Things improved. Our frequencies recovered (so I believe), and I became much more open minded about sex and intimacy.

I tried to communicate this to him as best as I could. I added that now we could change ever more for the better. That this years now could become the best sexual years of our lives. I talked about my future hope of us becoming so physically close and even adventuresome.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Halleluiah, the dam is broken. Now we can get somewhere.
MN


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

It fall on deaf ears. He said I made him to feel like a horny teenager. His libido became a boat anchor around his neck. For a time, early in our marriage, he literally had wished it away.

He was speaking slowly and quietly, as sure sign of hurt or anger for his personality. He said he wants things to continue as they are. He said we're happy. Why change now? I said why not?

He said that after all of these years, he's afraid to. He spoke about some of my past rejections of him, some of them quite poignant. It actually surprised me the clarity of his memories of these events, many of which I have forgotten and must take him at his word. There was a Valentine's Day that he initiated, and I apparently left him hanging. There was a time on the floor in front of the TV during movie in which I was too uncomfortable. There was a Florida vacation where I was too worried our hotel room neighbor's might here us. There was my early resistance to having the lights on. Finally, I said I get it. I've heard enough.

I hear these stories, and I don't doubt they're true, but they were so long ago, and I was so young. I wasn't fully comfortable with my body at times, which is ironic, because in my youth I was quite lean and tight.

And I don't believe that I had anywhere near the understanding of the significance that sex and intimacy could bring into a relationship. I told him all of this, and then I made the point that I did improve greatly during the mid and more recent years of our marriage.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

He nearly snapped at me in response. He said early in our marriage, he was close to giving up. He was frustrated, hurt, and angry.

He glared at me, right into my eyes, and quietly said, "I felt then as you feel now."

By now I'm streaming tears. I'm losing control of my own emotions. What was supposed to be a simple discussion about our reconnecting has blown into a full examination of our early marriage years, with a detailed listing of my sins. This entire discussion hasn't gone at all as I had hoped, and I now regret even bringing it up.

But it doesn't stop there. He's not finished yet. He said that he holds too much bitterness, too much resentment to change now. Plus, he adds, even if he changed now, he's too afraid I'll yank the carrot away. I managed a break in my sobbing, and told him I didn't understand the carrot analogy. He said he doesn't want to run on a treadmill with a carrot strung on a stick in front of him, only to have it yanked away.

I'm shocked, literally shocked by this revelation. He's been harboring anger and bitterness for decades over things I inadvertently did in my extreme youth.

I did a lot of listening, and I heard a lot of my flaws, which is tough to hear, particularly when in the current here and now, I feel needy and vulnerable for him.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> It fall on deaf ears. He said I made him to feel like a horny teenager. His libido became a boat anchor around his neck. For a time, early in our marriage, he literally had wished it away.
> 
> He was speaking slowly and quietly, as sure sign of hurt or anger for his personality. He said he wants things to continue as they are. He said we're happy. Why change now? I said why not?
> 
> ...


Try very hard NOT to say anything that could be seen as rationalizing or excusing your past behavior. He has lost his trust in you sexually.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I asked him, how have you hidden this bitterness and anger for so long? Why haven't you told me? Why haven't you tried to change it?

"Oh, I did. Many times." He spoke of talking about this over and over again. This was again very early in our marriage. He said we'd argue, cry, have sex, and things would improve again for about a month or so. Then, I would revert back to my self.

He described his frustration. He spoke of his shame. He said he felt like a hormone-crazed pervert. Then, he said that to cope, he gave up our sex life. He stopped trying. He stopped initiating. He stopped buying me slinky lingerie.

He said the worst was when I didn't even seem to notice. At that point, he decided to make his decision final. He divulged to me that he even began his business out of sheer sexual frustration. He had time and energy that he needed an outlet for.

But once the business became profitable, he found that business success, power, and profit helped fulfill his sexual void.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Everything you have described here sounds about right and makes sense with what your original question was. His behavior and reaction is very consistent. It also seems as if your assumptions about how "men" are was very damaging to your relationship, and your recent pushing probably drove him further away, built more resentment, felt like you were twisting the knife.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

To Him,
Stop that childishness. I don't want to get more because I might get rejected. Man up! be fearless for a month. She would sign a no rejection contract at the drop of your hat. For love we all go into areas where there is risk. You really want revenge? for every hurt feeling? Try this, twice a day until she cant walk right. That will teach her!

To kTc,
Good Job, you did it! You got him to open up. Now give him some time to digest all this. Let it soak down into his bones until he believes it. In the meantime increase intimacy. Shower together. Treat him. Give him his favorite pleasures. Even the food kind. Make sure he knows every day three times a day that he is the One for you. if he doesn't give the sex at first he will in time. There is a bit of pride to wear off. 
Communication is open. Choices are still limited but at least you're talking.
MN


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> I am so angry and hurt! My husband regularly rejects me or keeps a lackluster attitude about intimacy. I've been dealing with this for months now, and it's taking a serious toll on me mentally. My self esteem is really suffering.
> 
> Dealing with rejection as wife and woman is uniquely painful, as *men are supposed to be horny and ready to go all of the time*. When *my* man doesn't live up to this expectation, then I feel so unsexy, unwanted, like a failure.
> 
> ...


Most men are when they feel loved and desired by their woman.

Your friends marriages are quite likely in the same deep trouble yours is, and they seem absolutely clueless...actually reveling in ignorant bliss...


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I see now, looking back, that his business' birth does roughly coincide with a great period of harmony in our marriage. Ironically, as busy as he became, we began to really get along. As our son approached his teen years, the money really began flowing in, our money stresses ended, and we really grew together as a couple. At least I thought so.

At the time, I had no idea he was signing off on me sexually. I was so proud of him and his business. I had no idea his sexual frustration was the impetus for beginning it. The pain and guilt of this realization is so difficult to bear.

He reiterated his love for me and our son. He said that despite his frustrations, he never stopped loving me. He said his priorities just changed. He began to measure himself by what he could build and provide for his family. His community stature and his wealth became a sort of measurement of his masculinity, replacing his lost sexuality, in a way.

Hearing this is absolutely heartbreaking. At this point, I'm speechless.

Quite satisfied with himself, he ended this discussion telling me that I had little right to complain. He has never cheated on me. He put up with little sex and little interest from me, all the while providing for us plentifully. He cited the pool, the cars, the private tuition, etc.

I'm full on crying at this point. He says he's done talking for tonight, that he's tired of talking about sex. Then, he says he's going for a drive. He always take the BMW for a drive when he's upset. It's like a form of therapy for him.

He's still out driving, I suppose.

I feel awful. I wish I had never brought this up. Things are far worse now that I have.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> To Him,
> Stop that childishness. I don't want to get more because I might get rejected. Man up! be fearless for a month. She would sign a no rejection contract at the drop of your hat. For love we all go into areas where there is risk. You really want revenge? for every hurt feeling? Try this, twice a day until she cant walk right. That will teach her!
> 
> To kTc,
> ...


She needs to be careful here not to push too hard either. He knows she is wanting more sex, and if pushed too hard, she will come off as manipulative and selfish. He doesn't seem like the type of man to just "get over it" when sex is offered. There are a lot of men who are not manipulated by the prospect of sex.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm on my second glass of wine, processing all of the things he said. I know that he speaks his heart. He rarely lies, and when he does, it's a white lie over something inconsequential, usually to spare someone unnecessary pain.

I'm completely struck by his candor tonight. He never raised his voice at me, but his words and his honesty stung hard. It seems like he really needed to express his grudge that he's been carrying around for so long. He pounced on my current desires and my neediness and juxtaposed it against my past behavior, almost like I had no right to feel that way I do now, because I did not feel the same way in the past.

I wish I had known. As upset as he was and is with me now, my God, I wish I had known he felt so strongly all of these years.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Yes sam, 
I wrote too fast. I still think that things are not so bad as they look. Patience, is a key. Unless he turns out to be a serious grudge holder. He is getting his revenge now. She cried in front of him a very good thing. He's not going to give her up for his pride.
MN


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I sit here with such a heavy heart. I'm alone in this huge, beautiful house. I'm not sure I've ever felt so alone before in my life.

My son is off in college. We raised a wonderful young man. He's very strong academically, and he's rarely ever been in trouble. He's extremely polite and respectful in public. That's one thing we've done remarkably well. He and I raised a damn fine son.

I love my husband with all of my heart. I know he's angry with me right now. I sit here, imagining myself in his shoes, carrying his pain. I can imagine that my revelations, my new found needs, sexual desires, and plans have reopened a very old wound for him. He probably grew to a point where he thought this issue was put to rest for good, and here I have brought it back up to the surface. He found a coping mechanism, albeit a less-than-ideal one, it was one that worked for him. It got him through for many years, and now I've broken it. And I've hurt him while doing it.

I'm trying to understand his perspective.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Don't you think it is healthier that it is all out in the open now?


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm not sure why I'm going on, pouring my heart out to stranger on a random online forum.

I suppose I feel I owe it to my online peers to share my story and my painful experience. Maybe someone else can read our thoughts, feelings, and discussions and learn from our marriage's shortcomings.

The worst feeling at the moment is regret. It's one of opportunities passed by. I literally cringe and tear up thinking about some of my past behavior.

As I really think back, I remember more and more details. Most originate from the earliest years of our marriage.

I was such a young, naive, stupid young woman. I don't know if it was harmful "advice" handed down to me by my female peers, but somewhere along the line as a girl, I was warned that men only cared about one thing. We, as maturing young women, were expected to protect that and withhold it, lest we get a reputation or worse still ruin our lives with an pregnancy out of marriage.

That upbringing instilled a certain amount of shame and willful ignorance about sex that I carried well into my marriage. For a long time, I viewed men as somewhat opportunistic cretins that would "steal" my purity if I permitted them to. That submitting to sex was somehow cheapening myself. Most of this, I believe I learned from my upbringing.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Ouch. This is one time I wish I hadn't been right.

KTC--don't regret for a moment having had this conversation, even though it hurt. You picked the scab on a nasty emotional wound that's been festering for a long time. I can identify with many of the things he's said here, because I've felt much the same from time to time. The urge to "get revenge" some day with the tables being turned, etc. It's not healthy, and it's not productive, and it's something I continually have to fight against. 

It's going to take time, patience and empathy (and quite possible professional help) to help him move past this resentment, and to keep yourself from building your own resentments in the meanwhile.

Finally, don't hit him with your point about it being so long ago. It was a long time ago FOR YOU, because you only recently started prioritizing sex. It's not a long time ago for him, because the resentment he's carried has been active this entire time.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I did carry most of this sexuality baggage into my marriage. Luckily, I chose a wonderful man, an old fashioned gentleman. My husband proved to be the opposite of all of the warnings I'd been given. But it took time to realize that. At first, and for a time, I suppose that I viewed his sexuality as sort of threatening.

That had a real effect one me. It certainly dampened my own ability to realize and enjoy the affair. And it probably affected my own enthusiasm.

But I worked through those issues. I never told him these things, but each time I surrendered myself to him, and gave him my body, he never let me down. He never violated my trust.

Perhaps it's because I chose the right man for my first, or maybe I just got lucky, but none of the womanly warnings I received growing up in my teen years ever applied to him.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I learned all of these things about him, about myself, and about my marriage over the course of years. Perhaps the better word is that I "unlearned" what I had been taught about sex and learned to relax and trust the event.

I guess my point is that I changed. I understand that it took time, and now realize the impact that it had own my young husband, right in his sexual prime. I cringe thinking about that. I had nowhere near the full appreciation for the damage I was causing.

Not only did I shed the sexual taboos of my upbringing, but I believe I grew to actually enjoy it.

Ironically, as I've aged, my body has become more weathered but our marriage has never felt stronger. I've always viewed us as a wonderful, powerful team. That bonded me to him. He ran our family business empire, and I raised a miniature version of him, at least that was my goal.

Over the years, my trust in my husband exceeds words. My love for him has never been stronger. I think that realization was what first drew me to really authentically, uncontrollably desire him sexually.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

He's still out driving.

I realize now that I should have shared more of my sexual feelings with him over the years. I should have kept him more aware of my youthful sexual shame. I fear that he may have blamed himself for many of my own hangups, merely because he was ignorant of my own inner demons.

I should have carefully explained to him that during that period in my life when I swatted his hand away from my butt, it was out of my own shame, not out of rejection for him. I felt too fat, and his touch brought my attention to the fact that I was unhappy with my own body.

Ironically, I don't even have that body now. But I did learn to overcome that shame. I learned to accept my body and the fact that time will continue to erode away my youth. That's why I want to get as much enjoyment of each other in as we can in our time left.

I should have shared my joy with him as I shed my own sexual inhibitions. After all, it was he that led me on that journey. He could have shared in my pleasure and pride. And, I can *still* share that with him. I believe he'll come home. I'll give him some time, and I'll share some of this with him, if he'll have it. I think it will help him understand my perspective. I hope it's not too late to begin this kind of communication. We really do communicate very well in general; we just have traditionally avoided most things sexual in the past.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Like Sam said earlier--don't push too far, too fast. Empathize, express your regrets, and give him time. He's angry and it will take some time to get over.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> Yes sam,
> I wrote too fast. I still think that things are not so bad as they look. Patience, is a key. Unless he turns out to be a serious grudge holder. He is getting his revenge now. She cried in front of him a very good thing. He's not going to give her up for his pride.
> MN


I agree with this. I honestly think he is probably quite in love with her, but he has over the course of years had his sexual desire for her killed. It will take time to return, but...and this is the harsh possibility...it may never return in the way she is hoping.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> I did carry most of this sexuality baggage into my marriage. Luckily, I chose a wonderful man, an old fashioned gentleman. My husband proved to be the opposite of all of the warnings I'd been given. But it took time to realize that. At first, and for a time, I suppose that I viewed his sexuality as sort of threatening.
> 
> That had a real effect one me. It certainly dampened my own ability to realize and enjoy the affair. And it probably affected my own enthusiasm.
> 
> ...


They don't apply to most men, and the feelings your husband are not uncommon for men to feel. As I pointed out in my very first post to you here...this is the problem when people believe what "everybody says", social stereotypes, and conventional wisdom rather than believing the person, their words, and their actions happening right in front of them.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> Like Sam said earlier--don't push too far, too fast. Empathize, express your regrets, and give him time. He's angry and it will take some time to get over.



And for god's sake, do not say anything in a way to come off as blame shifting, or trivializing his feelings. At the same time, while knowing he is upset, angry, do not let yourself become a verbal punching bag either. You made a mistake, but you do not deserve to be abused for it. This is going to be tough for both of you.

As you pointed out earlier, his side of it, he could be feeling as if you robbed him of his most vital sexual years, that he gave that up to provide for a wife and son whom he loved, and now in return, his wife is demanding he make her feel desired, as she is moving past her prime. That is a tough pill to swallow.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Wow, ktc. THAT was a big conversation, perhaps the biggest in your life, no? Even though it was so painful for you, I'm sure you will work through that pain and he will work through his and together you two can find your way. The reason I'm saying this is that the incredible amount of honesty and vulnerability you both showed in that conversation was very loving and mature...even if it was very difficult (and even if he seemed a bit shrewd at the moment, that was just his honestly shining through). You two can rebuild something. Just know that it will take some time to work through this, but you can rebuild it.


----------



## khaleesiwife (May 9, 2014)

Damn KTC! I was on the edge of my seat reading this thread. It's a cautionary tale of what happens if we as women, don't know how to enjoy our sexuality. Reading this, I have learned a lot as I'm sure any woman who reads this will also. You articulated yourself to perfection! As I watch my husband sleeping right next to me I am compelled to wake him up and give him the goods, so to speak. We have an exceptional sex life, but it's times like these, when he initiated and I turned him down flat to finish watching a movie that I realize that I should have paused it, taken care of him, and then resumed my movie with a smile of satisfaction on my face instead of the pathetic longing look I have on right now. Thank you for your tale. If it doesn't help anyone else it certainly helped me. Good luck to you and your Husband. I pray it all works out for you.


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

Wow. This is the most fascinating thread I've seen in a *very* long time, perhaps ever.
I have no advice, but please keep posting.
Just wow.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am really impressed with your patience with him, kTc. I sure could not do that. His temper tantrum last night, along with his passivity all those years, would have likely made me lose all respect for him. He would not have been the only one out for a long drive last night, wondering if he really wanted this relationship or not.

But you seem to be able to accept it, analyze your own past objectively, and even take responsibility for his behavior. I am not sure all that is healthy, but you seem willing and able to handle it.

I hope things work out how you want.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

jld said:


> *I am really impressed with your patience with him, kTc.* I sure could not do that. His temper tantrum last night, along with his passivity all those years, would have likely made me lose all respect for him. He would not have been the only one out for a long drive last night, wondering if he really wanted this relationship or not.
> 
> But you seem to be able to accept it, analyze your own past objectively, *and even take responsibility for his behavior. I am not sure all that is healthy, but you seem willing and able to handle it.*
> 
> I hope things work out how you want.


:scratchhead:

While I agree *he* should have been more open and honest in the past, I don't understand your comments. KTC has to share some blame as well. It's a two way street. Hopefully they can BOTH work through this. FWIW, my wife and I did...

Good for you KTC! The lines of communication are now open. Let him digest it for a while until he calms down and suggest another conversation when he's ready to talk about it again. Keep things positive at all times!


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think he was blaming her. But she seems okay with it, so hey, whatever works for them.

I think it would have been healthier for each of them to own what they did: "I withheld for years because I was ashamed of my body." "I was passive for years because I was scared of rejection."

Totally agree they need to work together to heal the resentment of the past and build a happy future together.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

JLD, while I honestly believe you mean well, I implore you to leave this one alone. Your unique, albeit, quite limited view of husband/wife dynamics, that while it works wonderfully in your marriage, can be quite damaging when applied to more normal relationships.

kTc is already struggling to understand that everything she thought she understood about men, about how men function in marriage, all of those stereotypes, everything she had been led to believe was wrong. She really does not need the water to be muddied further by your personal view based on the dynamic you have with, and your views on how men should behave. They are quite frankly very outlier views, and her relationship, the problem she is facing now is one that many of us understand through personal experience.

kTc, jld has some very unique views on men and the husband/wife dynamic. Her marriage is one that is essentially a Parent/child relationship where the man is the parent, and the woman is the child. She believes that the woman has no responsibility for her actions, in that the man controls the environment and so any behavior on the womans part is is direct response to what he did. Essentially the woman has no responsibility for her words or actions, and that it is the mans responsibility to stand there and take it.

kTc, please take jld with a grain of salt and realize that her views and experiences are very different from yours, and are largely effective only within the unique dynamic of her relationship, and if applied to others, could be very destructive.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jld said:


> I think he was blaming her. But she seems okay with it, so hey, whatever works for them.
> 
> I think it would have been healthier for each of them to own what they did: "I withheld for years because I was ashamed of my body." "I was passive for years because I was scared of rejection."
> 
> Totally agree they need to work together to heal the resentment of the past and build a happy future together.


I don't think he was blaming her at all. I think he was expressing his feelings on the matter, explaining why he felt the way he did, and how personally handled it in such a way as to keep his own sanity while also protecting his wife from his own internal pain.

Your views on the marital dynamic, and your views on how "real men" should act are just as destructive in this situation as all of the misguided notions she bought into in the early parts of her marriage.


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> kTc, jld has some very unique views on men and the husband/wife dynamic. Her marriage is one that is essentially a Parent/child relationship where the man is the parent, and the woman is the child. She believes that the woman has no responsibility for her actions, in that the man controls the environment and so any behavior on the womans part is is direct response to what he did. Essentially the woman has no responsibility for her words or actions, and that it is the mans responsibility to stand there and take it.


Samyeagar, this is your interpretation. This is not what JLD has expressed, or I for that matter. You can let KTC make her own opinion about JLD like she is going to make her own opinion about you or me. 

I am not sure why you feel so confident to promote yourself as some kind of moral or mainstream authority.


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

KTC, do you have sex ever? Is your husband able to have sex?

I am concerned that he is hiding behind those past rejections to hide the fact that he cannot get an erection anymore.

Just wondering.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Duguesclin said:


> Samyeagar, this is your interpretation. This is not what JLD has expressed, or I for that matter. You can let KTC make her own opinion about JLD like she is going to make her own opinion about you or me.
> 
> I am not sure why you feel so confident to promote yourself as some kind of moral or mainstream authority.


Of course she can form her own opinion, but she needs to have the information to make an informed decision.

You and your wife do not have a typical marital dynamic. Neither of you maintain views of the opposite sex that are generally compatible with others in long term relationships. 

I make no claim, nor have I ever promoted myself as any moral authority, but let's face it Dug, you and jld are kinda out there, and your marital dynamics would be very destructive to most people.


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> Of course she can form her own opinion, but she needs to have the information to make an informed decision.
> 
> You and your wife do not have a typical marital dynamic. Neither of you maintain views of the opposite sex that are generally compatible with others in long term relationships.
> 
> I make no claim, nor have I ever promoted myself as any moral authority, but let's face it Dug, you and jld are kinda out there, and your marital dynamics would be very destructive to most people.


You have the accurate information for KTC to make a proper opinion about JLD. Yet you say you do not promote yourself as any moral authority. I find it amusing.

But let's not hijack the thread. Let's have an open discussion about KTC's issues.

We all have the right of an opinion and have the right to disagree with what others may write. It is an open forum.


----------



## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Duguesclin said:


> KTC, do you have sex ever? Is your husband able to have sex?
> 
> I am concerned that he is hiding behind those past rejections to hide the fact that he cannot get an erection anymore.
> 
> Just wondering.


Not sure where you got that. She stated that they have sex about once every 2 weeks.

Believe it or not some men do give a crap what their wives think of them, and it does affect them positively and negatively.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

insted of thinking tis was the worst conversation in your marriage I think you should be thinking it was the best!

print out this thread and hand it to him to read. After he reads it tell him your sorry. tell him your thankfull for him being who he is, which was all the things you mentioned in your posts. Ask him if hes willing to bring back the fire for you and that you will never forgive yourself for ignoring his needs as he tried to meet yours. Tell him that you know you were truly blessed to have married such a caring,understanding, person and that you can take it slow and rebuild the sexual spark that he once had for you. Tell him you know it was not very fair to ask this of him but your hoping that he will do it anyways.

Good luck


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Duguesclin said:


> You have the accurate information for KTC to make a proper opinion about JLD. Yet you say you do not promote yourself as any moral authority. I find it amusing.
> 
> But let's not hijack the thread. Let's have an open discussion about KTC's issues.
> 
> We all have the right of an opinion and have the right to disagree with what others may write. It is an open forum.


JLD has left her own trail all over the place here, so it's more that she has made herself clear. I'm just giving kTc a heads up that you and jld have extremely different marital dynamics, and views on the opposite sex than most people do, and that your views and experiences from your relationship do not in any way apply to hers.

Case in point from this very thread...after taking a very difficult step in reaching out to her husband and starting to dig into this issue, your wife threw this all back on him, was disparaging to her husband, and in her own passive agressive way, was disparaging to kTc even.

Let me tell you, if kTc approached her husband the way jld is hinting at here, her marriage will be wrecked.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening KTC
This is really tough. I wonder how many marriages have deep hidden resentment from poor communication. I think that it may get much better - maybe when both of you think a bit, you will realize that despite everything you can be very happy together.

A few years ago after a long time of almost no intimacy, my wife and I had a "talk". It was very difficult, but the basic situation was not so different from yours - each of was feeling rejected because the other had become so depressed and frustrated. Once we really understood what was going on, everything got better and we have been very happy since.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> Not sure where you got that. She stated that they have sex about once every 2 weeks.
> 
> Believe it or not some men do give a crap what their wives think of them, and it does affect them positively and negatively.


I reread the thread and she said every couple weeks. One post asked if every two weeks was too much to ask, so I am guessing it may not be that often.

I do have to wonder if there's some kind of erectile dysfunction going on. 

I think she's taking responsibility for rejecting him, and trying to understand why she did it. Did you hear him taking the same responsibility for her feelings? Expressing sincere regret?

I think if they each own their feelings and their part of the dynamic, they can build a strong happy relationship. 

What I am hearing here is that she is to blame and it is up to her to turn everything around. That could work. Chilly morn and Sam are giving advice on how to do that. If she is willing to take on that kind of responsibility, that could be the solution. I would not do it, but I am not KTc.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jld said:


> I reread the thread and she said every couple weeks. One post asked if every two weeks was too much to ask, so I am guessing it may not be that often.
> 
> I do have to wonder if there's some kind of erectile dysfunction going on.
> 
> ...


That's what healthy people do in normal relationships.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

A lot of men, dare I say most men, and women for that matter do not desire, nor would tolerate a wife or husband, and marriage such as you and yours jld.

As I have said before you and Dug chose very wisely, and I do commend you for that because many people don't. You have in all appearances a very happy and successful marriage because it works for you and your husband. I will also say again, and I know I am not alone here, but what you have would not work for very many people.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> That's what healthy people do in normal relationships.


In my opinion, Sam, that is what dominant females do for their male submissives.

And reverse it for male-led marriages.

And split it right down the middle for 50/50 marriages.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Can we please not bring this down into another argument about whether men are allowed to have feelings again?


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jld said:


> In my opinion, Sam, that is what dominant females do for their male submissives.
> 
> And reverse it for male-led marriages.
> 
> And split it right down the middle for 50/50 marriages.


You are in a D/s male led marriage right?

Her husband took responsibility for himself many years ago by redirecting and eliminating his sexual desire for his wife. He sacrificed that part of him for the good of his relationship. I know it is inconceivable for you, but she, the woman, the wife, is taking responsibility for her part in it now. I know you can't grasp that a woman could possibly do anything wrong and it not be her husbands fault, but just because you can't wrap your mind around it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

kTc and her husband have taken a huge step forward in the communication department. kTc is very fortunate to have a husband who was open and honest with her...again, that shows that he really does care and love her because what he shared with her left him very vulnerable, another thing you can't even imagine...male vulnerability.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Holy cow kTc!

I have the echo what FaithfulWife said, that was one hell of a painful and cathartic conversation. But as I was reading it, I couldn't help but get angry for you. Your husband is pulling the biggest bullsh!t passive aggressive move so many men think is going to save them or their marriage.

He was unhappy.
He wasn't getting sex.
He felt like his libido was somehow wrong.
He was hurt you didn't want him as he wanted you.

So what does he do?

Turns it off and focuses on something else. And now that you've grown comfortable in your body and your sexuality (and don't kid yourself he's been loving every minute of turning you away!) he says it's too late.

Well Bull Sh!t!

What HE should have done all those years ago is to be honest with you that your rejection hurt him and was in the process of destroying his love for you. But he didn't do that. Instead HE HIMSELF bought into the same damn erroneous stereotypes and classified his libido as a problem instead of classifying your lack of libido as a problem.

He screwed up!

So now you've reached sexual maturity and you want a full and exciting sex life. You got there all by yourself because your husband left the building all those years ago. But now, he's going to punish you for those years of rejection. He's going to get back at you for not being as sexually available and expressive as he wanted you to be. He has plenty of experience of turning off his sexual urges and now he's going to really enjoy watching you try to do the same.

I say again, Bull Sh!t!

Does he want a marriage that consists of tit for tat, leaving everyone titles and tatless, or does he want a sexually liberated and loving marriage? Now ask yourself this... Who the hell would actually WANT to live a relatively sexless life? Someone who gets more out of revenge than healing.

Tell your husband that while neither of you can undo the past you have a decision to make about your future.

What will that future be?

Sexlessness for his revenge?
Learning to fully express your needs and desires?

And don't be afraid of the answer. You found your sexual self, don't let anyone EVER take it away from you!


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Holy cow kTc!
> 
> I have the echo what FaithfulWife said, that was one hell of a painful and cathartic conversation. But as I was reading it, I couldn't help but get angry for you. Your husband is pulling the biggest bullsh!t passive aggressive move so many men think is going to save them or their marriage.
> 
> ...


I agree with you in principle AP. He handled it completely the wrong way back then. If I recall correctly, he DID confront her about it, but when he didn't make any headway with her he chose to let it go rather than divorce her, or at least be honest with her that he was ending his sexual relationship with her for good.

I think this was handled poorly on both sides back then.

I do NOT think that slapping him with an ultimatum right now is a good idea. I think KTC would be better served to get both of them into some marital counseling to try to work through some of this.

His revenge fantasy is unhealthy. I do NOT think he's actually "enjoying" it, he's just very angry and is not handling that anger in a productive way.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> You are in a D/s male led marriage right?


What has that got to do with anything?



> Her husband took responsibility for himself many years ago by redirecting and eliminating his sexual desire for his wife. He sacrificed that part of him for the good of his relationship.


Which was a stupid thing to do! He killed a vital part of himself rather than confront the issue. He bought into the stereotype as badly as she did.




> I know it is inconceivable for you, but she, the woman, the wife, is taking responsibility for her part in it now. I know you can't grasp that a woman could possibly do anything wrong and it not be her husbands fault, but just because you can't wrap your mind around it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.


Sam, you know I like you a lot, but you're just plain wrong on this view. JLD has countless times spoken of things she does wrong AND things Dug lets her down about. But maybe you've missed those posts?



> kTc and her husband have taken a huge step forward in the communication department. kTc is very fortunate to have a husband who was open and honest with her...again, that shows that he really does care and love her because what he shared with her left him very vulnerable, another thing you can't even imagine...male vulnerability.


Yes, they've taken a HUGE step forward and bravo to her husband for FINALLY being honest. Shame his wife had to drag it out of him though! No, if he really did love and care for her he wouldn't have been rejecting her these past few years. That's CLASSIC passive aggressive bull sh!t and has ZERO to do with love.

His vulnerability should have happened years ago. But he didn't show it and now instead or working on that sexual bucket list the husband has to unlearn his years of passive aggressive revenge tactics.

Once again, you're wrong about JLD's stance on male vulnerability. You can't have full transparency without vulnerability and what the ONE thing she always urges? 

TRANSPARENCY!


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Holy cow kTc!
> 
> I have the echo what FaithfulWife said, that was one hell of a painful and cathartic conversation. But as I was reading it, I couldn't help but get angry for you. Your husband is pulling the biggest bullsh!t passive aggressive move so many men think is going to save them or their marriage.
> 
> ...


You seem to be assuming that his drive is something that can be turned off and on light a light switch, and for a whole lot of people, it just can't, and they don't work that way. That doesn't make someone passive aggressive. 

You may be right in that is what is going on here, but I think it is a bit too early to make that call. See how he progresses, see what his actions are, see if he throws it back in her face, see if he actively withhold. If he is doing those things two weeks from now, a month, three months, then yeah, he's being an ass and punishing her in an abusive way...but again, I think it's way too early to make that call.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I agree with you in principle AP. He handled it completely the wrong way back then. If I recall correctly, he DID confront her about it, but when he didn't make any headway with her he chose to let it go rather than divorce her, or at least be honest with her that he was ending his sexual relationship with her for good.
> 
> I think this was handled poorly on both sides back then.
> 
> ...



You're probably right about not delivering any ultimatums right now. But damn that husband triggered me up one side and down the other!


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> What has that got to do with anything?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lack of desire is not the same as passive aggressive rejection. So are you saying then that way back early on that her lack of desire, her rejection of him was passive aggressive behavior as well, even after he talked to her about it?

JLD has said many times that she does not believe that a real man is in any way vulnerable to a woman, and if he feels as if he is, then he is not a real man. She has also said, many times that she believes that a woman's behavior is in response to what the man did, and it is his responsibility to figure out where he went wrong to cause the woman to behave in the way she did...that does not sound like holding the woman accountable for much of anything at all.

The reason I brought up the D/s type of marriage jld has is to make it clear that jld is bringing a very different POV to this issue. I know you know that strategies from a D/s relationship, that mind set would not be terribly effective in being applied to a non D/s relationship.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> You seem to be assuming that his drive is something that can be turned off and on light a light switch, and for a whole lot of people, it just can't, and they don't work that way. That doesn't make someone passive aggressive.
> 
> You may be right in that is what is going on here, but I think it is a bit too early to make that call. See how he progresses, see what his actions are, see if he throws it back in her face, see if he actively withhold. If he is doing those things two weeks from now, a month, three months, then yeah, he's being an ass and punishing her in an abusive way...but again, I think it's way too early to make that call.


Sam, it may be too early to make that call, you're right.

BUT!!!

For the past few YEARS kTc has been the one pursing sex several times a week. If this was ONLY a matter of his libido switch it would have been turned back on by now, don't you think? That's why I think he's been enjoying her discomfort and giving back to her what she gave him. Only he is doing it with full cognizance of all the levels of pain rejection inflicts. That's what I can't wrap my brain around.

He knows how it hurts, he's been there and done that and he's all too willing to give it right back to this woman he supposedly loves? If that's love... no thank you!


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think for clarification, KTC indicated that he IS willing to have sex with her, and in fact does. She was disappointed that he just didn't have that "fire" about it. I completely understand her feelings on this.

I don't believe he has been rejecting her. I believe she indicated that he has deprioritized sex in their marriage. I believe he did this as a coping mechanism, and i think he's still bitter about having to take that step. I can guarantee you he's most angry about missing out on his prime years. Nothing can be done about that now, of course, but he's going to need time, and I believe counseling to adequately put it behind them.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Sam, it may be too early to make that call, you're right.
> 
> BUT!!!
> 
> ...


Not necessarily. Sometimes when it is gone for a person, it is gone, no matter how badly they want it turned back on. There are countless stories here where this is the case...mostly women losing it completely for their husband, but the flip side certainly does happen. 

Granted, the situation with my ex wife was very different from this, but the final four years of that marriage was completely sexless. I had absolute zero desire for that woman who by objective standards most men would have found extremely physically attractive, who even after we separated still tried to get me into bed, but nope, the desire was just simply absent...not even repulsion, just absence...I was as sexually attracted to her as I would be attracted to a rock.


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I think for clarification, KTC indicated that he IS willing to have sex with her, and in fact does. She was disappointed that he just didn't have that "fire" about it. I completely understand her feelings on this.
> 
> I don't believe he has been rejecting her. I believe she indicated that he has deprioritized sex in their marriage. I believe he did this as a coping mechanism, and i think he's still bitter about having to take that step. I can guarantee you he's most angry about missing out on his prime years. Nothing can be done about that now, of course, but he's going to need time, and I believe counseling to adequately put it behind them.


QFT. And I think she is going to have to be patient with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Not necessarily. Sometimes when it is gone for a person, it is gone, no matter how badly they want it turned back on. There are countless stories here where this is the case...mostly women losing it completely for their husband, but the flip side certainly does happen.
> 
> Granted, the situation with my ex wife was very different from this, but the final four years of that marriage was completely sexless. I had absolute zero desire for that woman who by objective standards most men would have found extremely physically attractive, who even after we separated still tried to get me into bed, but nope, *the desire was just simply absent...not even repulsion, just absence...*I was as sexually attracted to her as I would be attracted to a rock.


And that's my point. I don't recall exactly how your divorce finally came about but instead of living a miserable existence you two split up. You didn't continue to live with a woman who had hurt you to the point of killing your sexuality and desire for her. Nor did you "pretend" that everything was okay and keep going with your marriage. You had the BALLS to keep your balls and move on.

This guy cut his balls off in order to keep his comfortable existence going. 




Fozzy said:


> *I don't believe he has been rejecting her. I believe she indicated that he has deprioritized sex in their marriage.* I believe he did this as a coping mechanism, and i think he's still bitter about having to take that step. I can guarantee you he's most angry about missing out on his prime years. Nothing can be done about that now, of course, but he's going to need time, and I believe counseling to adequately put it behind them.


He's done both, for the past couple of years.



kTc said:


> 3. For the last couple of years, it's felt more like an obligatory routine from him rather then a genuine exciting event.
> 4. I think I try a couple of times a week. We probably actually complete the *act every couple of weeks.* But, I'm so weary of getting shot down, that I probably only try a fraction of the time that I want to.


That's a lot of rejection and quite a long time for a man to allow his libido to grow back if he was so inclined. In fact, he's had loads of time to say to his wife... "What gives? All those years I wanted sex and you didn't and now that I've conquered my sex drive you want it back? Be careful what you wish for wife because once it's back it's staying!" No, instead he ignores her and allows her to feel the same hurt and humiliation of rejection he felt all those years. 

Such a great guy...not!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Convection said:


> QFT. And I think she is going to have to be patient with him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the men participating here are voices that absolutely need to be heard. So please bear with me as I struggle through this triggering thread.. I know and like all of you and totally respect your POVs! Just bear with me please....

I spent the first 15 years of my marriage in a sexless state. Multiple issues contributed to it. I was mostly at fault but I wasn't wholly responsible because my partner/husband abdicated his position as a member of our partnership. Neither of us were equipped to be honest or transparent with what was going on. We nursed our respective hurts away from one another. 

Then I got my sh!t together and learned what I needed to learn, heal what I needed to heal and talk about what I needed to talk about. 

Meanwhile my husband was, once again, along for the ride. 

After I got my groove back (or more precisely grew a groove) my husband would, and still does at times, reject me. I worked too gaddamm hard to get here it is NOT going on the back burner! So it is me chasing after him to discover the essence of rejection. Recently (yes I can be very slow on the uptake) I have come to understand that every one of his rejections happen because he is angry at me for something else. Something he hasn't talked to me about, something he is keeping to himself, something he wonders if he *should* be angry about or does he have the right to be angry about.

Instead of saying to me, "dammit wife I expected you to....." he holds it in, rejects me, pulls away and it's up to me to pull it out of him. 

I resent the hell out that! He can be angry with me, he can yell and tell me I let him down, he can even make demands that I do whatever. But what he CANT do is keep it to himself and leave me to suffer in silence and feel hurt and rejected because he doesn't have the BALLS to speak up!

Okay, so this is why this thread is triggering me so badly.

This husband didn't have the balls to speak up way back when. Okay that can be forgiven and forgotten. We were all young and dumb when we first started out. But he is no longer young and dumb and yet he remains without the balls to tell his wife he doesn't trust her new found sexuality and instead rejects her thus causing her the exact same hurt she caused him...back when they were both young and dumb.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I think the men participating here are voices that absolutely need to be heard. So please bear with me as I struggle through this triggering thread.. I know and like all of you and totally respect your POVs! Just bear with me please....
> 
> I spent the first 15 years of my marriage in a sexless state. Multiple issues contributed to it. I was mostly at fault but I wasn't wholly responsible because my partner/husband abdicated his position as a member of our partnership. Neither of us were equipped to be honest or transparent with what was going on. We nursed our respective hurts away from one another.
> 
> ...


First, the bolded...the husband did speak up, and his wife chose to believe conventional wisdom about how all men are, and how marriages should be rather than listen to her flesh and blood husband telling her what he wanted and needed.

Now onto more generally what you said...I can absolutely see why this is triggering for you, and understand and empathize completely. I am familiar with your story, and unfortunately can relate in many ways.

The case with my ex wife is very different because I was dealing with a woman who is NPD, so there was no possible way of working it out besides leaving.

One of the things my now wife and I talked a lot about before we even started dating was sex, and general attitudes and expectation towards sex. One of the things we discovered right away was that our communication styles were very compatible. We were able to talk very openly and candidly with no reservation. That was one thing I need in a partner...no coyness, no hedging and beating around the bush, no game playing...lay it out there honesty and openness.

The fact that we are rather compatible on pretty much every major issue from finances, kids, religion, all those things bodes well for us as we don't really have many fundamental disagreements. There are some areas we have different standards, that are not double standards, but it works really well.

Regarding sex, I think the proof is in the actions and even though we have very different backgrounds and histories, and even different views, we are extremely compatible and just work so well together. One specific incident that clued me in actually was we were in the middle of one of the few real big go rounds we have had, it was after midnight and we both had to get up early, and she just stopped right in the middle of it and said it was getting late, and she wanted to get laid, and we could finish the argument after we were done...holy sh1t...


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

AP, congrats on having the self-awareness to understand why this thread is triggering you. Many posters don't.

I don't think this is about having the balls to leave the marriage. KTC said that other than this issue, her H is awesome. He may feel the same way about her, and think that aside from sex, she is a great wife. If so, he could have compartmentalized this and just accepted a mostly fantastic marriage in exchange for this. I don't think this is healthy but he would hardly be the first.

You have dig the bullet out of the wound for it to heal. Now that he's finally let it out, maybe they can move forward. I hope their mutual love is enough that he is willing to open himself up - essentially he has to give her a chance and risk being hurt again. It is a risk for him. I guarantee his biggest fear is that she will "turn off" again six months after their love life picks up, which would just crucify his self-esteem. At the same time, ktc, you have to be willing to try and earn his trust again. Assuming he's willing, and you get things rolling again, be patient. He will have moments of regression. The first time you reject him (and you will for some reason, at some point), he will probably get mad. Patience, patience, patience. At some point, it might be helpful to speak to a third party.

Of course, all this is contigent on him being willing to try again.

Wishing you luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Anon...ktc remembers (now) the many times she rejected him and the many conversations he initiated with her about it, back when.

You sound like he just shut it off without a fight, but that is not what she AND he are saying happened.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Anon...ktc remembers (now) the many times she rejected him and the many conversations he initiated with her about it, back when.
> 
> You sound like he just shut it off without a fight, but that is not what she AND he are saying happened.


You're right, and myself and others have been trying to gently remind her of what has actually happened, but I think we should give AP a bit of slack here as this has understandably been a pretty good trigger for her.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

KTc, sorry for the thread jack.

I still feel like your husband should have not abdicated his needs for sexual connection with you in the first place. Yes, he brought it up and yes you shot him down. But you were both young and dumb. If you hadn't found your sexual groove, he would still be nursing his resentment and face growing old as a man who never got to enjoy a full sex life. I find that sad, really sad.

I worry that he has played with your feelings these past few years. This, to me, doesn't bode well for being able to fully get past it. But at least the wall has been revealed to you, so there's that. But what would be happening if you hadn't sought out advice on how to deal with his rejection? One of both of you would end up in CWI....

The men are preaching patience. Okay that makes sense. 

From where I sit, 30 years into marriage and 10 years into trying to reconnect and make it work, the constant hurdle I face is his passive aggressive way of dealing with our difficulties. It is a sabotage and to me it means, without him having to say it, "this is good enough for me and I won't do any more to make it great."

So...just be warned. Working to move forward or working to move away.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Good enough is enough for many people. I don't think it is fair for us to expect others to want GREAT. If they are fine with good enough, why is that wrong?

I'm divorced once already because good enough wasn't enough for ME personally...but I know many people who it is enough for. Why should they have to feel like they should go for "great"? If both spouses are fine with good enough, then it is good enough.

ktc is NOW not fine with good enough, yet she was before. She wasn't even aware that things weren't that great. I actually feel her husband has shown a lot of love and grace for trying back when, and then when he couldn't get her to go for GREAT (good enough was fine for HER) instead of leaving her, he started his own company, worked on himself, and became outcome independent. Over time, this squealched his sex drive but that was actually a benefit to him.

He was happy with the good enough. Now she isn't.

I honestly don't see how there is any "blame" being placed on EITHER of them. They both did the best they had with what they knew at the time. And they do love each other and have a good life.

She now wants a GREAT sex life, he doesn't, he's fine the way things are, good enough. Why doesn't that just make sense? Neither of them were trying to hurt the other, and still are not trying to hurt each other.

Just because he had one convo with her about his pain in the past and was a bit steely in his tone about the past resentment, it doesn't sound like he's been a seething cauldron of resentment for all this time. Why doesn't he get credit for that? She didn't describe a big passive aggressive pattern in their daily life. I don't think he takes pleasure in rejecting her. He has simply dampened his sexual urges in response to her rejection back in the day. It doesn't sound like your husband to me, at all. This husband actually tried many, many times to discuss things.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Thank you all for all of your comments, replies, and questions. Rather than reply to each individually, I'll try to address them in a couple of posts. I also have some thoughts I need to express, and somehow typing them out helps me. This forum and your feedback has already helped me immensely. Just knowing that I'm not alone, that I'm not the only woman on the earth who feels unwanted by her man helps.

As an update, he did return home. He was pretty drained from his long drive, and I bet he did a lot of thinking. He was actually warmer to me upon arrival than I expected. He hugged me tightly and for a long time. He told me he has always loved me and always will love me. He said he does not want to fight (he said this despite the fact that our conversation was entirely civil). He said we don't have to fix this all tonight, that there is no way to fix it in just one night, that we can work on it if we both keep an open mind. He asked for my patience. I agreed.

His ability to manage his emotions and work through problems rationally has always amazed me. I can think and think and think about a problem to the point of approaching a nervous breakdown. He'll listen to my problem, remind me of the true scope of the problem, which is usually far smaller than I have been feeling. And then he'll systematically build a plan of attack to tackle the problem. I have confidence we'll do that here. He seems to be already over his initial anger and open to working toward a resolution. That gives me hope.

My cloud of emotions has subsided somewhat today. I understand and appreciate that what he shared with me last night must have been difficult. It took me two tries to divulge my needs and hurt, and my pain is recent. He spoke calmly and honestly about injuries that are years old.

I love him with all of my heart. I always will. I believe he feels the same about me. Even if our sex does not improve, I will always love him. But if there is any chance we can fight through this issue, no matter how long it takes, I want that chance. I have been struggling with this for two years, and I am patient enough to work through this into the future.

I slept in this morning. He did make a point to gently wake me before leaving for the office. He kissed me on the forehead. Later in the day, I sent him a text message that I love him, which he returned in kind.

I think those are all good signs. I will heed the advice of many posters here, and I will stay patient. This may not be fast or easy to overcome, but today I am glad that I broke the silence.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I made it to post #65 (page 5) and stopped there..(saving a # of your posts at the bottom to RECAP his FINALLY opening up to you... 

1st I want to say to you kTC... thank you for sharing your story here.. in all my years here on TAM, I have yet to read one that hits to THE HEART OF HOW A MAN , who loves his wife dearly, and is that Gentleman type.. faithful, honest and true.. to what REALLY HAPPENS when he decides "I am going to stay in this marriage, love the best of my ability YET is hurting excruciating over feeling sexually rejected, just wanting your desire more than anything else... pushed aside, *his words speak the heart of many many husbands... . *

I have my own story in this.. I landed on TAM because I was feeling JUST LIKE YOU.. I wanted him to "TAKE ME" , get more aggressive, though I wanted it 3 times a day, once a week would have killed me !... And similar to your story...my H had some resentment built up over the years for me too...but it was NOTHING close to yours (in our situation, years of infertility was our monkey wrench- scheduling sex was not helping matters... his feeling rejected started there, then we had 5 more kids in 9 yrs.. and I put him on the back burner).. he too is that Gentleman type who loved, seemed happy (and he was in everything else)..never one to complain....

And as it so often happens...with us women... age 42, I found myself raging for Intimacy after our 1st son left for college... I too felt needy..the most vulnerable ever... and through our heart to heart talks, mostly in our bathroom with tears... I realized just HOW deep, how wide ...I hurt my husband.. but he never held it against me.. he did all he could to give me what I needed.. yet I cried a river wanting to go back there and live those years again...for him/ for us. 

I have yet to read the last so many pages... I just wanted to get this out.. I really FEEL for your husband -reading this.. just as I did my own... But also *for you*.. and I feel your thread should be read by EVERY YOUNG BRIDE ..OMG.. because this scenario is what can happen when we fail to understand THIS NEED ...rejecting our men.. THEY ARE MORE SENSITIVE HERE than we realize.. ..then us not even noticing when they slow down their advances.....


Some will become ANGRY outright, FIGHT with us, tell us we're cold fish!!... some will cheat on us... some will divorce us ..and others will Do as your husband had done to cope (he did this out of love, but the sacrifice was very great).... how very unfortunate ..

I really feel men have the lousy end of the stick in this... as their sexual PRIME is in their early yrs.. and ours is often late 30's/ early 40's...they have to put up with us ..not "getting it" -understanding that antsy unrelenting craving they have for us ....then when this finally hits US like a tidal wave... he may be so resentful.. wanting some "pay back"..

You have a powerful story here to share.. that holds many lessons... 

I hope you & he can save this ... 

*THE RECAP *: 



kTc said:


> *He's a composed man, a true gentleman. He commands very strong control over his emotions,* which has probably served him well in business. When I first met him, he was extremely difficult to read. Over the years, I have learned to glean his emotions from subtle facial cues and voice tones.
> 
> *Listening to me, he became quite irritated, nearly angry. He never raised his voice or yelled, but the deliberate way that he strung together his response told me he was likely angry.
> *
> ...





kTc said:


> *He said there was a time in his twenties when he wanted me thrice a day. But I was the limiting factor.
> 
> He reminded me that very early in our relationship I (more than once) informed him that marriages are much more than "just sex."
> 
> ...





kTc said:


> *It fall on deaf ears. He said I made him to feel like a horny teenager. His libido became a boat anchor around his neck. For a time, early in our marriage, he literally had wished it away.
> 
> He was speaking slowly and quietly, as sure sign of hurt or anger for his personality. He said he wants things to continue as they are. He said we're happy. Why change now? I said why not?
> 
> ...





kTc said:


> *He nearly snapped at me in response. He said early in our marriage, he was close to giving up. He was frustrated, hurt, and angry.
> 
> He glared at me, right into my eyes, and quietly said, "I felt then as you feel now."
> *
> ...





kTc said:


> *I asked him, how have you hidden this bitterness and anger for so long? Why haven't you told me? Why haven't you tried to change it?
> 
> "Oh, I did. Many times." He spoke of talking about this over and over again. This was again very early in our marriage. He said we'd argue, cry, have sex, and things would improve again for about a month or so. Then, I would revert back to my self.
> 
> ...





kTc said:


> I see now, looking back, that his business' birth does roughly coincide with a great period of harmony in our marriage. Ironically, as busy as he became, we began to really get along. As our son approached his teen years, the money really began flowing in, our money stresses ended, and we really grew together as a couple. At least I thought so.
> 
> At the time, I had no idea he was signing off on me sexually. I was so proud of him and his business. I had no idea his sexual frustration was the impetus for beginning it. The pain and guilt of this realization is so difficult to bear.
> 
> ...





kTc said:


> I'm on my second glass of wine, processing all of the things he said. * I know that he speaks his heart. * He rarely lies, and when he does, it's a white lie over something inconsequential, usually to spare someone unnecessary pain.
> 
> *I'm completely struck by his candor tonight. He never raised his voice at me, but his words and his honesty stung hard. It seems like he really needed to express his grudge that he's been carrying around for so long. He pounced on my current desires and my neediness and juxtaposed it against my past behavior, almost like I had no right to feel that way I do now, because I did not feel the same way in the past.
> 
> I wish I had known. As upset as he was and is with me now, my God, I wish I had known he felt so strongly all of these years.*





> I sit here with such a heavy heart. I'm alone in this huge, beautiful house. I'm not sure I've ever felt so alone before in my life.
> 
> My son is off in college. We raised a wonderful young man. He's very strong academically, and he's rarely ever been in trouble. He's extremely polite and respectful in public. That's one thing we've done remarkably well. He and I raised a damn fine son.
> 
> ...


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Happy for you kTc.

Thanks FW for the reality check.

ETA: and Sam and Fozzy and Convection...thanks for the patience!


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Good enough is enough for many people. I don't think it is fair for us to expect others to want GREAT. If they are fine with good enough, why is that wrong?
> 
> I'm divorced once already because good enough wasn't enough for ME personally...but I know many people who it is enough for. Why should they have to feel like they should go for "great"? If both spouses are fine with good enough, then it is good enough.
> 
> ...


I'm 95% of the way there with you FW, but I actually do think he's carrying around quite a bit of resentment. I think he probably just didn't realize it until she brought the subject up. It may have even surprised him as much as her.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ktc...I have high hopes for your marriage and sex life.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> I'm 95% of the way there with you FW, but I actually do think he's carrying around quite a bit of resentment. I think he probably just didn't realize it until she brought the subject up. It may have even surprised him as much as her.


Right but what's wrong with that, really? He was terribly hurt and tried very hard to change things. When she wouldn't work with him, he still loved her, he didn't leave, he just GAL'd himself into a successful business man. Carrying resentment is something we all do when we've been disappointed in life, yet this husband didn't turn into a giant jerk to her, he silently managed his pain and forged ahead with other parts of his life while still loving her and caring for the family well.

In my post you quoted I said "he doesn't sound like a seething cauldron of resentment"...if he did and was torturing her all these years, it would be obvious then and now. That is not what she described.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Happy for you kTc.
> 
> Thanks FW for the reality check.
> 
> ETA: and Sam and Fozzy and Convection...thanks for the patience!


We gotcha AP


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> We gotcha AP


Now you're gonna make me cry. Big old internet group hug!


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

> *That's a lot of rejection and quite a long time for a man to allow his libido to grow back if he was so inclined.* In fact, he's had loads of time to say to his wife... "What gives? All those years I wanted sex and you didn't and now that I've conquered my sex drive you want it back? Be careful what you wish for wife because once it's back it's staying!" No, instead he ignores her and allows her to feel the same hurt and humiliation of rejection he felt all those years.
> Such a great guy...not!


OP, you sound sincere so I am going to make a few observations. There was an attachment injury to your relationship that your DH carries as a resentment. Despite what was said above, resentments do not heal on their own. The affirming desire you want from your DH will not return until this attachment injury is repaired. 
I can personally vouch for this approach:
Healing Attachment Summit

You can heal one another ... it will take some time, but with honesty and vulnerability you can work through this healing process. It sounds like you have a good start. Kindest Regards-

<endnote> Let me add one more comment. If how you characterized your DH is reasonably honest ... I try every day to be this good a man.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

His sharp honesty about the past has forced me to re-examine our sexual history. I do so now with a renewed perspective. I have changed so much over my life. I've lived through dating, college, marriage, childbirth, parenting, and now I'm adjusting to an empty nest. Our son moving out may have served as the trigger event which jarred me into my current state.

Overnight, my purpose for existing changed. With my son leaving our house for his life's next chapter, my daily activities, responsibilities, and family dynamics changed drastically, nearly overnight. His maturing has even changed my own perception of myself. He is no longer a child. He is a young man and no longer depends on my nurturing to survive.

I once saw my supreme responsibility in life as being a mother first. In my fairly recent research about marriage and sexuality, one of the themes I read over and over is that the best thing you can do for your children is to put your marriage first. I think we raised a fine son, and I think our marriage is generally healthy.

But I do think I may have made a mistake defining my role at times. Being a nurturing mother and a sexual wife are not mutually exclusive. They are not inherently incompatible. There may have been times in my life when I felt they were, consciously or unconsciously. Childbirth places new mental and physical demands on a woman. Parts of her body are used in new ways, and I'm not sure I was fully prepared to keep an appropriate emphasis on my sexuality.

I had to recover from birth's trauma. My breasts suddenly took on a new role. Mentally, I agonized over trivial decisions like which types of bottles to purchase for our newborn or which preschool to enroll in. Our new son probably took on a tremendous amount of my attention. In hindsight, I wish that I had been more careful about ensuring my husband received a more balanced amount of my attention.

One of life's worst feelings is regret, regret of paths never taken, or opportunities left unrealized. My heart breaks when I think about declining sex over the risk that we might wake the baby, and a litany of other pitiful excuses.

Sometimes, I gave my husband scraps like quick sessions or manual stimulation. At the time, I selfishly felt tired or stressed, and I just wanted to get him off my back. I look back, and I was annoyed by his persistence. I felt hounded by his sex drive. Back then, before I understood the gravity of sexual fulfillment, his needs felt petty to me, like he was chasing me for a quick release. With my new understanding of sexual psyche, I think my sexual consolation prizes to him back then were insulting and shallow. I satisfied his primal need for release, but I left him emotionally hungry. I didn't understand the complexities of needing sexual desire, because I believe I took sex for granted.


----------



## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

kTc said:


> His sharp honesty about the past has forced me to re-examine our sexual history. I do so now with a renewed perspective. I have changed so much over my life. I've lived through dating, college, marriage, childbirth, parenting, and now I'm adjusting to an empty nest. Our son moving out may have served as the trigger event which jarred me into my current state.
> 
> Overnight, my purpose for existing changed. With my leaving our house for his life's next chapter, my daily activities, responsibilities, and family dynamics changed drastically, nearly overnight. His maturing has even changed my own perception of myself. He is no longer a child. He is a young man and no longer depends on my nurturing to survive.
> 
> ...




KTc, I think most every married woman on the planet has done this at some point in their marriage.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> His sharp honesty about the past has forced me to re-examine our sexual history. I do so now with a renewed perspective. I have changed so much over my life. I've lived through dating, college, marriage, childbirth, parenting, and now I'm adjusting to an empty nest. Our son moving out may have served as the trigger event which jarred me into my current state.
> 
> Overnight, my purpose for existing changed. With my son leaving our house for his life's next chapter, my daily activities, responsibilities, and family dynamics changed drastically, nearly overnight. His maturing has even changed my own perception of myself. He is no longer a child. He is a young man and no longer depends on my nurturing to survive.
> 
> ...


Wow. Just wow. I nominate this thread to be a sticky, a must read.

One thing about you kTc that gives me great hope for success is that you are not really showing any signs of being emotionally damaged. The fact that you are able to feel what you are feeling, accept what you are accepting shows me that you are actually in a very emotionally healthy place, and that bodes very well for your future.


----------



## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

I dont really have any great insight that has not been said by the people that posted here. Just wanted to say this was a great thread, from the OP who has made great strides and admitted not only her spouses faults but her own, to the mostly civil back and forth between the posters even when there was not a full agreement.

It's threads like these is why I joined TAM and good to see they still happen.

OP i wish you the best of luck.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ktc...there are dozens of men who feel just like your husband used to right here at TAM. You should read some of their stories, too.

And the husbands here pray and hope that their wives can come to understand what you have now come to understand. Sadly, most will end up divorced instead.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I know there are many things I could have done differently. I wish I had done so. However, I cannot change the past.

My husband did try to communicate these things to me. We did talk and argue about sex, frequency, and variety. I'm embarrassed to admit that some perfectly normal positions back then scared me. I was timid. I lacked confidence. Sometimes I felt too stupid or ashamed to try new things. Some positions seemed too exotic or even demeaning to me at one time. Oh, how I've changed! My mind is now so open and adventuresome!

Why was I so risk-averse back then? I'm not sure. The false feeling of youthful invincibility and seemingly endless time blunts the need to explore life and its calculated risks. Since then, we've both done a lot of living. We've both lost friends and family members. We've pulled through two family tragedies and come out stronger. Life's struggles and my middle-aged wisdom has taught me that life is so very short. Each moment is a treasure, never to return again. I no longer want to take them for granted; I don't want to waste any more opportunities.

I think newer cultural elements have also opened our society's tolerance of women's sensuality. There was a time when women weren't really expected (or even possibly allowed) to enjoy sex merely for its pleasure. Popular books and movies (many just within the last few years) have challenged that assumption and have provided a safe forum for women to express their own desires and fantasies. As society sheds the sex taboo for women, I think both women and their men will benefit from it. There is no shame in giving your loving husband the ride of his life!

If I can get him to turn around, I am going to make it worth his while!


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Samyeagar said*: I* nominate this thread to be a sticky, a must read*.


* I DO TOO !!!*



kTc said:


> Sometimes, I gave my husband scraps like quick sessions or manual stimulation. At the time, I just wanted to get him off my back. I look back, and I was annoyed by his persistence. I felt hounded by his sex drive. Back then, before I understood the gravity of sexual fulfillment, his needs felt petty to me, like he was chasing me for a quick release. With my new understanding of sexual psyche, I think my sexual consolation prizes to him back then were insulting and shallow. I satisfied his primal need for release, but I left him emotionally hungry. I didn't understand the complexities of needing sexual desire, because I believe I took sex for granted.


kTc.. on my latest thread (below).. one of the 20 was to help women understand how our men FEEL.. especially in those early years, wanting us/ needing us.....and one of the other areas we so often fall in ...is putting our kids before our husbands.. 

I will put these 2 on here.....



> *2*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I am trying very hard to stay positive, to concentrate on the future, and I still don't know how long it will take to right this ship, or even if it's possible.

Over the last day, I've thought and written a lot about my husband and our marriage's history. I think understanding the history and his perspective is crucial to fixing the future.

However, I need to be selfish and vent. I need to indulge in expressing my own feelings. I need a catharsis.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Expressing your feelings isn't selfish, ever.


----------



## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Read this earlier today and have tried several times to muster up a useful comment, but I can't. 

I can't believe the level of emotional pain this thread released in me. This isn't a trigger, it's a full-on shotgun blast to my face.

Without peer, the most compelling thread I've seen on this site.


----------



## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> ktc...there are dozens of men who feel just like your husband used to right here at TAM. You should read some of their stories, too.
> 
> And the husbands here pray and hope that their wives can come to understand what you have now come to understand. Sadly, most will end up divorced instead.


:iagree:

I just want to add that I find it interesting that the empty nest phase seems to be what triggered ktc's understanding, and I'm looking forward to the empty nest as the best time I can honorably divorce my wife!


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

The last roughly two years or so have gradually become torturous for me. I have suffered in silence.

I suppose as my husband shut himself down,combined possibly with a waning desire from aging, our disparate drives became more aligned. Looking back this period of our marriage was remarkably peaceful and lacking of drama. Little did I know that he was inwardly suffering, carrying around this bitterness, hurt, and anger.

Fast forward to our empty nest. My life has suddenly simplified itself, shedding the daily complexities that created so much stress and exhaustion. My daily responsibilities now largely revolve around caring for my husband and myself. It's almost as if I've met him and gotten to know him for a second time.

I'm terribly ashamed to admit this. Now,I listen to him again. I truly listen to him. Now, when he recounts his daily business battles, his stories feel so much more important to me. In the past, when I was caring for our son, my husband's work stories, stresses, and his priorities often felt more distant to me, like "just details" to me. I trusted him and had full faith in him.

I, of course, did listen, but I don't think I truly empathized with him like I should have. I was too distracted. Sometimes in the past, I half-listened during his stories, watching out for critical keywords. My abstraction of him, I suppose, marginalized him, and I'm ashamed of it. I have always been immensely proud of him. I have always loved and cared for him. I have not always paid the true authentic attention to him and his life and his daily battles that I should have as his wife.

This may be another case of taking something wonderful for granted. My husband is an intelligent man, and I am absolutely blessed that he's chosen me and stood by me. He's been such a rock solid husband, supporter, and provider, that I sometimes forget the man's human. He's not a superhero, he's not a mythical god that's invincible and invulnerable to emotions. The man just makes it look so damn easy. I have probably leaned on him too much historically. When it hits the fan, that man keeps a cool head and assumes a position of leadership. When he walks into a room, people instinctively follow him, because they trust him.

But he's still human. He has wants and needs. He has vulnerabilities. He does feel pain. *He* needs _me_ too.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Despite my past failures, I wish that he could have been more open with me. I have great hope for the future, but my heart weighs heavy knowing I opted myself out of decades of pleasure and intimacy.

I wish my husband had fought harder. I wish I would have heard him better and understood. I wish he'd started more arguments over this. We speak often and resolve many conflicts well. We are both cognizant that a central component to two people living happily together is becoming good at reaching compromise.

I'm not sure why we weren't able to talk this one out, and our apathy has cost us so much time. We're going to work through this now, and late is preferable to never, but we both share the responsibility of tabling this issue.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

My husband isn't going to change overnight. I know this. To expect that would be incredibly selfish and unreasonable. I do feel that it is reasonable for me to expect that he will give some genuine effort to alleviate this issue. I feel that some measure of compromise is in order.

Secretly inside, I pray that we can talk this through, heal old wounds, regain his trust, and then open the sexual floodgates. Whether it's an increasing sex drive within me or my neediness, I have allowed myself some fantasies lately. I am ready. I am ready to give. I am ready to be taken. I am ready to take. I want him. I want him to want me.

This brings me to my selfish emotions. The last two years have gradually becoming an exercise in frustration, and at times misery.

I, by no means, intend to alienate any men that might read these words. You men are a great resource to me, so please read these next selfish posts of mine patiently and know that I am not indicting men for generalized sexual dynamics. I understand that generalizing is not always accurate and it's usually not fair. I am also not marginalizing the sexual pain many men feel while young. In fact, I'm empathizing. I'm appreciating that. I'm feeling it now.

But I do feel that this rejection is uniquely painful for women. I'm not saying more painful, but it's definitely different for women.

Wives are supposed to get headaches. There are countless jokes about women's supposedly universal lack of sexual desire. Did you hear that scientists have found a substance that permanently removes all of a woman's libido with just one bite? Yeah, it's wedding cake... There are many more jokes like that.

That's the default. And men are expected to be overly sexual. In fact, masculinity seems inherently tied to men's sexuality in our culture. Some women even believe that any single man will have sex if offered. I know that's not true, as some of my divorced girlfriends have told me about when renewing their dating lives. A couple of them were shocked when seemingly single men declined their subtle offers for one night stands. It challenges the default assumption: Men are supposed to be horny all of the time.

Early in our marriage, my husband did certainly chase me around the house all of the time. Sometimes it was flattering; other times it was flat out annoying. As I've written before, I didn't have a healthy enough understanding of sexuality to always see it for the compliment that it truly was.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

As you continue to read and learn more about sexuality, you will likely come to see that it is not more painful for a woman to be rejected than a man, regardless of wedding cake jokes.

But it will take some time.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Well now, I'm approaching middle age. I've worked hard to preserve a slim figure. I believe my husband is proud of me and still attracted to me. He seems to show me off at times publicly, hanging me off of his arm at events, me clad in a tight dress.

But I'm well aware that my beauty is slowly fading. My skin shows spotting and sun damage. My skin is not taut and tight like a 20-something's. I am a healthy weight, but I feel like I eat like a bird, and maintaining that weight seems to require more and more effort in the gym.

Young men rarely invest in a second glance to check me out like they used to. While I obviously care most about my husband's desire and can live without other males' attention, that extra look from a stranger checking you out can give you a small boost of confidence that you still have it. And those looks come less frequently now, particularly from younger men.

I feel I was blessed with youthful beauty, and I am thankful for that. But as it fades, it is difficult. I don't consider myself an especially shallow person, defined solely by my superficial looks, but I always took pride in my appearance. Watching my raw beauty fade, beyond my control, is difficult.

These facts make me feel vulnerable, mortal, and at times old.

If men and their worth are defined by their virile sexuality, women are often pigeonholed into being valued by their youth and beauty, both of which are time-sensitive commodities.

As stranger interest fades, my husband's attention and desire becomes that much more critical for me. I have always wanted my husband's desire, and now it feels as if it's nearly all I have left. That has made me much more needy.

Please don't judge me yet. There is much more. My pain and hurt isn't only about me aging and losing my looks. But, in order for me to be fully honest with you and with myself, I have to express this.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

kTc said:


> Is once a week out of the question for a man in his 40s? Surely once every two weeks is achievable?


Late to the thread, but I can field this one. I'm 56 and if I only got it once a week I'd feel neglected, and start to get cranky after two weeks or more. 

There have been a few times when we went a long time without, and it really changes your mood to dark. 

I think pbguy asked about testosterone and thyroid, both excellent questions. Mid-40s is when T levels can really drop (even much earlier in life, too). It may not be his mind, so much as his body that doesn't respond. 

I didn't read the whole thread yet, but has he had ED issues?


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I suppose the empty house, adjusting to my son moving out, and adjusting to becoming solely a wife again have left me feeling somewhat empty. It has also renewed the importance that my husband plays in my life.

I have gradually found myself yearning for him. Yet most of the time, he does not reach for me. I can and do initiate with varying levels of boldness. We do connect sexually, which I am grateful for.

However, there is no selfish validation like having your man want you, need you. When he initiates (which is less common now), it is a compliment, a validation of me as a woman like no other. As casual lighthearted attention and flirtation from other men has faded into oblivion, my husband is really the only source of male attraction left in my life. This has left me starving for much more.

I've come onto him in bed and received lukewarm response. It's disappointing. At times, it's crushing. Yes, I receive sex, but it's not the same as being wanted. It's nowhere near what it feels like to receive authentic, enthusiastic attention. I want to be really wanted. I don't want obligatory routine sex.

When I first dealt with my rekindling flame, I tried subtlety. It often failed. I'd slink into bed with a silky nightie, hoping he'd take the hint and ravish me. That approach left me disappointed more often than not.

I've flirted throughout the day in text messages. I've tried playful approaches. Hell, I've flat out asked plainly for sex.

Usually, it works. Sometimes it does not. Regardless, when I initiate 19 of the last 20 occurrence, I began to question whether his heart is truly in it.

My bewilderment morphs into anxiety. What's wrong with me? I'm a woman. He's a man. He's supposed to eat this up. So, I began to try harder. I lost weight. I spent more on lingerie. I planned exotic getaways. At times, particularly for getaway trips, my pursuits actually seemed to irritate him.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

All the while, as I'm dealing with my neediness and new found vulnerability, I feel as if I'm the only woman on earth with this problem. I feel flawed, unworthy, unattractive, undesirable, unwomanly. What woman fails to attract her own soul mate? What kind of failure is she?

I grew tired of crying myself to sleep in bed next to him as he slept. I began to research on the Internet and found this forum, which has been a lifeline for me. Just knowing there are others has given me tremendous support. As I've written before, my girlfriends have the opposite problem, so they're not going to have much sympathy for me. I dare not tell many of them, as they'll probably shame me.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kTc said:


> The last roughly two years or so have gradually become torturous for me. I have suffered in silence.
> 
> I suppose as my husband shut himself down,combined possibly with a waning desire from aging, our disparate drives became more aligned. Looking back this period of our marriage was remarkably peaceful and lacking of drama. Little did I know that he was inwardly suffering, carrying around this bitterness, hurt, and anger.
> 
> ...


If your husband was an intelligent man, he would find a way to minimally satisfy your needs even though he does not "feel" like it.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Everything culminated on his birthday recently this year. I have lots of time on my hands, so I decided to plan my best birthday celebration for him. I wanted to splurge and do something sweet, intimate, and memorable.

His birthday fell on a Tuesday. I took out a suite in one the local upscale hotels. It was a gorgeous room with a king sized bed, and a honeymoon hot tub.

I went to his office and used my key to his car. I left in his driver's seat a birthday card that included the hotel room key. I kissed the envelope with my red lipstick. I also left a black thong, sprayed with my perfume on the seat. I was finished being subtle.

I checked myself into the hotel and got settled into the room. I had brought my iPod full of sweet romantic music. I also brought wine and two glasses. We could order room service for dinner. I had tried to plan for everything.

Trying to be mindful of his Wednesday workday, I even brought a suit, dress shirt, tie, socks, and shoes along with me so that he could just change at the hotel the next morning.

I slipped into my newest piece of lingerie, ready to greet him at the door by dropping my bathrobe to reveal the outfit.

As I lay on the bed, waiting for him to arrive, I felt proud of myself and of my present to him. And, I was excited for us to enjoy each other.

He called about 90 minutes later, casually. He actually sounded irritated with me. "I have to work tomorrow." I explained the extra suit and the effortless dinner plans. He only need show up. "I'm tired, and we didn't plan for this." I said that was the whole point. It was a surprise. "Come home and we'll celebrate over the weekend." He hung up.

I was devastated. He did not and could not have known the effort and planning I placed into the room and the evening, let alone the emotion investment and anticipation.

I was still distraught, nonetheless I still hoped for a change of heart from him. He never arrived and did not answer my calls. I drank the bottle of wine alone in the room, feeling sorry for myself.

I slept alone that night.

I had gone all out. I had taken the largest initiation risk ever and made the biggest sexual gesture in my life, and he had left me hanging.

It's the deepest rejection I've ever felt, and it drove me to look for support and to begin researching how to fix this.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

kTc said:


> Everything culminated on his birthday recently this year. I have lots of time on my hands, so I decided to plan my best birthday celebration for him. I wanted to splurge and do something sweet, intimate, and memorable.
> 
> His birthday fell on a Tuesday. I took out a suite in one the local upscale hotels. It was a gorgeous room with a king sized bed, and a honeymoon hot tub.
> 
> ...


And his reason for such blatant, intentional rejection was....?

He's been getting back at you these past couple of years. He needs to own that. He needs to own the fact that he KNEW damn right well what you've been trying to do and he knew damn right well that he was intentionally sabotaging it.

I still think you can make it through this, but the behavior described above...you're going to start remembering more and more of those slights when you tried to connect and he sabotaged.

He knows the pain of rejection and he has willingly allowed you to suffer it over and over and over while not once informing you.

Wow! Your guy really holds a grudge!


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Why is it any different than the ways she rejected him all those years ago? Remember, he lined out for her several times when he was trying to create a romantic evening for her and she did the same thing and rejected him without a second thought.

His sex drive was dampened by all that rejection. He just isn't "feeling it anymore".

Back in their early years, she just wasn't "feeling it".

What is the difference? I don't think he rejected her to punish her anymore than she rejected him to punish him in the past. He is a busy business man. My husband would not be very happy about me springing a romantic weeknight hotel room, either, he just can't switch gears like that. She built up her anticipation and then felt horribly rejected, yet if she had handled it differently and done it on the weekend, he might not have rejected her.

In fact it worked out well for them both, because it led to them finally discussing the problem.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kTc said:


> He said that after all of these years, he's afraid to. He spoke about some of my past rejections of him, some of them quite poignant. It actually surprised me the clarity of his memories of these events, many of which I have forgotten and must take him at his word. There was a Valentine's Day that he initiated, and I apparently left him hanging. There was a time on the floor in front of the TV during movie in which I was too uncomfortable. There was a Florida vacation where I was too worried our hotel room neighbor's might here us. There was my early resistance to having the lights on.


How is this above any different?

They have both hurt each other and let each other down.

I still see no reason to vilify the husband any more than the wife.

They were BOTH wrong to be so selfish. But they love each other and can work to bring things back around.

They BOTH need to see their part in this. She is just now seeing her part in the past. Why doesn't he get some time to adjust so he can see his part now?


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
this is the real tragedy of LD/HD. The LD person feels miserable and rejected, and that turns to frustration and, though they don't want to admit it even to themselves, anger and hatred. It is shameful to admit how much they are hurt by rejection so they keep it inside, where it slowly eats them up. No one wants to be intimate with someone they hate, so even if the LD partner starts to change, the HD partner may avoid sex just to spite them - tough maybe not really consciously.

I think the only solution is for both to just wipe the slate clean. Really start over, and just forgive and forget all the earlier suffering. It really can work.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> How is this above any different?
> I still see no reason to vilify the husband any more than the wife.


I tend to agree. I'm rehashing the past, because I hope to learn from our past mistakes, and I want to understand his perspective.

I'm not really interested in figuring out who is the more righteous partner or whose actions were more justified. I'm not interesting in tallying any score. I just want my man back, and I want to be the wife of his dreams (I'm hoping that those fantasies involve a mutually-satisfying sex life). I want us both as completely happy as we can be.

My goal, and I hope he shares this goal along with me, is to find out how our communication broke down in the past, what we can both do to meet each other's needs now, and how we can prevent this from ever happening again.

I know those are lofty goals, but few things matter more to me than my marriage.

He's not home yet tonight, but I'm nervous to speak with him again. I am hoping and praying that I'm able to meet his needs consistently enough to part him from his pain and bitterness. I want him to trust me again. I want him to feel safe with me again.

It's hard to wait. I want to fix this now. Selfishly, I want to undo all of this tonight and go on with our lives (I want the next, fun, fulfilling chapter to begin). But I will be patient.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I have the feeling that your deep love for each other will be able to move this mountain of resentment. Probably a lot faster than most stories like yours.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kTc said:


> I tend to agree. I'm rehashing the past, *because I hope to learn from our past mistakes, and I want to understand his perspective.*
> 
> *I'm not really interested in figuring out who is the more righteous partner or whose actions were more justified. I'm not interesting in tallying any score. I just want my man back, and I want to be the wife of his dreams (I'm hoping that those fantasies involve a mutually-satisfying sex life). I want us both as completely happy as we can be.
> 
> ...


 Your attitude is so refreshing.. there is no blame shifting going on here... if your husband feels your remorse as WE read it here on these pages..and the resolve you have to bless him again/ find your way back to each other....to NEVER allow these things to ever BE again...(I can relate to this)... from the man you have described.. I just can't imagine his not opening up to you again...and giving himself fully...it will come...hang in there! 



kTc said:


> The last roughly two years or so have gradually become torturous for me. I have suffered in silence.
> 
> I suppose as my husband shut himself down,combined possibly with a waning desire from aging, our disparate drives became more aligned. Looking back this period of our marriage was remarkably peaceful and lacking of drama. Little did I know that he was inwardly suffering, carrying around this bitterness, hurt, and anger.
> 
> ...


 Keep speaking these things to him... love on him... you married a good man. THIS all needed to be opened up ....you've both suffered...he's asked you to be patient with him (yesterday).. it will come..


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> And his reason for such blatant, intentional rejection was....?


Let's go right to the source for this answer:
_"I have to work tomorrow." .... "I'm tired, and we didn't plan for this."_

So that's exactly what he said, and it sounds like a plausible answer to me. For the record, he did not outright REJECT her. He RESCHEDULED their time until the weekend. There's a big difference between hearing just NO versus hearing LATER (defined by a specific timeframe).


----------



## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

KTc, I think there's some resentment to get over, but to me, you never really took it too far. With enough showing of love, admiration, and non-sexual affection, it's probable that he'll regain a level of confidence and comfort in intimacy.

As has been mentioned many times by the men here that relate to your husband's position, I believe it is only going to take persistence, patience, and continued understanding on your part.

I find your self-reflection rather remarkable.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

In the grand scheme of the stories of similar situations, this one stands out to me as looking like it could have a very positive outcome. I think she's got this one.

I think this is also a good demonstration of how conventional wisdom of how "men" and and how "women" are, those bits of common knowledge as so very destructive. Not only the stereotypes of women, but the ones women hold of men. The male stereotype she held onto, clung onto even when she had proof right in front of her face in her husband, she still chose to believe the stereotype and that has led to a lot of damage here, and has in countless relationships. My wife and I ran into some similar "male" stereotype issues early on in our relationship that almost broke us up because of her refusal to accept what was right before her very eyes.

I would be happy to expand upon my own experiences as a man if you want kTc, but do not want to inject anymore here than you want.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

samyeagar said:


> In the grand scheme of the stories of similar situations, this one stands out to me as looking like it could have a very positive outcome. I think she's got this one.
> 
> I think this is also a good demonstration of how conventional wisdom of how "men" and and how "women" are, those bits of common knowledge as so very destructive. *Not only the stereotypes of women, but the ones women hold of men. The male stereotype she held onto, clung onto even when she had proof right in front of her face in her husband, she still chose to believe the stereotype and that has led to a lot of damage here, and has in countless relationships.* My wife and I ran into some similar "male" stereotype issues early on in our relationship that almost broke us up because of her refusal to accept what was right before her very eyes.
> 
> I would be happy to expand upon my own experiences as a man if you want kTc, but do not want to inject anymore here than you want.


 :iagree: I may have had some repression due to certain acts, associating them with porn, not relating these acts in a loving/ giving way in marriage (my blunder)... but I can't say I have ever struggled with thinking ALL men are the same.. 

I always had a divider in my head... is he one of the good guys.... or one of those who jumps from woman to women to woman.. breaking hearts as he goes... some really do NOT have right intentions, and the girl ends up feeling used and deeply hurt ... Depending on what she wants, she has to use wisdom here.

The Good Guys are willing to take their time and get to KNOW a girl ...and allow for that comfort, exclusivity if she desires.....she will feel deeply cared for ...before he ever goes there.. I've never felt my husband just wanted sex...."just a release".. I've always felt it was a mutually giving experience shared.. 

Here is where she spoke about being warned all men only care about ONE THING...



> *Ktc said*:* I was such a young, naive, stupid young woman. I don't know if it was harmful "advice" handed down to me by my female peers, but somewhere along the line as a girl, I was warned that men only cared about one thing. We, as maturing young women, were expected to protect that and withhold it, lest we get a reputation or worse still ruin our lives with an pregnancy out of marriage.*
> 
> *That upbringing instilled a certain amount of shame and willful ignorance about sex that I carried well into my marriage. For a long time, I viewed men as somewhat opportunistic cretins that would "steal" my purity if I permitted them to. That submitting to sex was somehow cheapening myself. Most of this, I believe I learned from my upbringing*


 I would still teach my daughter to be very careful about the type of men she wants to date.. that sex is beautiful, but there is a time and a place.. and for someone very special.


----------



## ifweonly (Feb 27, 2014)

kTc said:


> Well now, I'm approaching middle age. I've worked hard to preserve a slim figure. I believe my husband is proud of me and still attracted to me. He seems to show me off at times publicly, hanging me off of his arm at events, me clad in a tight dress.
> 
> But I'm well aware that my beauty is slowly fading. My skin shows spotting and sun damage. My skin is not taut and tight like a 20-something's. I am a healthy weight, but I feel like I eat like a bird, and maintaining that weight seems to require more and more effort in the gym.
> 
> ...


Ktc you already know that Love is soo fragile and marriage is not a "Walk in the Park". I am moved by you and hubby's situation and it saddens me that you are going through this emotional rollercoaster. 

I do want to encourage you along another venue. You are a maturing woman and while that separates you from other more youthful women, you now have an attraction that they have not yet achieved. Maybe the 20 year old guys are not drooling over you but that in itself does not mean you are no longer an attraction magnet. Far from it! It seems that as we mortals mature, we appreciate those who have made that journey with us in a whole new light. I believe that we expect maturity has instilled an element of intelligent conversation, a love style that is tailored to the one that we are loving, respect, etc. 

You may not be hit on by other mature men but they may also respect the fact that you are married. I know some men have no respect but a lot of us do admire a woman who has a certain mature beauty but we also respect you.

I truly wish that you and h can reach a common ground in your relationship and you both come out winners! I wish you the best.


----------



## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

kTc said:


> Despite my past failures, I wish that he could have been more open with me. I have great hope for the future, but my heart weighs heavy knowing I opted myself out of decades of pleasure and intimacy.
> 
> *I wish my husband had fought harder*. I wish I would have heard him better and understood. *I wish he'd started more arguments over this*. We speak often and resolve many conflicts well. We are both cognizant that a central component to two people living happily together is becoming good at reaching compromise.
> 
> I'm not sure why we weren't able to talk this one out, and our apathy has cost us so much time. We're going to work through this now, and late is preferable to never, but we both share the responsibility of tabling this issue.


I've seen AP say things like this before and while I do believe you wish that now, I don't believe for a minute at that time it would have been a good thing. I think it would have been taken as "here we go with the sex fight again" and could have caused more damage than it was worth to him. At that time you weren't yet ready to hear him. At some point he decided it was a fight he was NOT going to win. You can only argue about the same topic so many times. Usually the other partner just doesn't want to hear it one more time. What then. What do you do when the person you love tells you, either in words or (in)action or tone, YOU AREN'T GOING TO WIN, SO STFU!

If you're at a point where divorce is preferable to what you're living with, you might bring it up again. But if you WANT to stay married, at some point you resign yourself to the fact that this just isn't going to happen and if you bring it up one more time, it might be the end of the marriage.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> I've seen AP say things like this before and while I do believe you wish that now, I don't believe for a minute at that time it would have been a good thing. I think it would have been taken as "here we go with the sex fight again" and could have caused more damage than it was worth to him. At that time you weren't yet ready to hear him. At some point he decided it was a fight he was NOT going to win. You can only argue about the same topic so many times. Usually the other partner just doesn't want to hear it one more time. What then. What do you do when the person you love tells you, either in words or (in)action or tone, YOU AREN'T GOING TO WIN, SO STFU!
> 
> If you're at a point where divorce is preferable to what you're living with, you might bring it up again. But if you WANT to stay married, at some point you resign yourself to the fact that this just isn't going to happen and if you bring it up one more time, it might be the end of the marriage.


We all have things we don't get in our marriage. We decide how we're going to deal with that. Holding in a lot of resentment is just going to make _us_ miserable. 

This man gave his wife his power. He was not forced to. He could've kept speaking up, regardless of her response. He could've divorced her. He could've gone to counseling to try to resolve the issue from his side. He was not forced to allow resentment to build up.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> Yep, he could have and probably should have done a lot of things. But what he did was decide to stay married and apparently faithful to his wife. He decided to take care of his family. And at some point it seems he decided that what he wanted wasn't important, he wasn't important.


I think he decided he would rather stay married than have what he wanted sexually. It was worth it to him.



> I guess it's his fault that she wouldn't listen. He probably thought he was doing a good job of keeping himself in check and didn't think he needed counseling. Could be that only when the roles were reversed did he actually realize he was carrying this resentment.


He may not have realized the extent of his resentment. But it would be hard for me to believe he was not aware of resentment at all. It did not take several intense sessions with psychologists to get that resentment out on the table.

And I think AP was right in thinking that he was taking it out on his wife, by rejecting her.

Did we ever get a straight answer on possible erectile dysfunction?


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I've read through all of your responses, and I apologize that I won't have time tonight to post a proper reply. I will try to do so tomorrow.

It was asked if my husband has erection issues, and I don't believe so. We've had a few failures over the years, but they've been relatively uncommon. Often they follow an evening of over-enthusiastic imbibing.

Last night, he took the lead for our Friday entertainment and planned for a wonderful dinner at one of our favorite restaurants. We took our time and dined slowly, talking about life, future travel plans, and our son. I had a wonderful time, and if he's harboring any severe short-term resentment or anger over our heavy talk, he did an excellent job of suppressing it.

I think he's very good at "compartmentalizing" many areas of life, as has been suggested in prior posts. I on the other hand am not; everything just seems to run together. Everything affects everything else. 

I badly wanted to initiate another heartfelt conversation about our sexual dynamics, but he had arranged for drinks (apparently half of the word "****tails" is censored ) after dinner at a bar with another couple that we're friends with. We had a lovely, elegant evening overall, and I just wanted to leave it at that.

Neither of us attempted initiation. It was certainly on my mind and would have been so appropriate after such a perfect evening. But, with the recency of our last conversation, I wanted to keep the pressure low for him. I'm trying to think about what's best for the strategic long-term.

He's been playing golf with a friend most of the day, and I have the house very clean. The two of us are about to settle into a homemade dinner with wine, and then I'm planning on gently bringing up the topic again. I'm going to do my best to listen. I'm simultaneously nervous and excited.

Thank you all for hanging in there along with me. You have all helped me immensely.


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

kTc, pls keep posting.
Forgive the vulgar comparison, but this thread has me riveted unlike anything since the last few episodes of Breaking Bad, can barely wait for your next post.

My interest runs deep because (figuratively speaking) I am your husband, and you are my wife. That moment in your story when the conflict reached it's peak: busy with the kids, high stress, difficult finances, you too tired for sex, his libido "a boat anchor around his neck", filled with "shame", a "hormone-crazed pervert" ? I have been in that exact place with my wife !!

Like your husband, I pondered all possible options, eventually settling on the same idea as him to "just give up on sexlife" but stay married and focus on outside things like building my business.

Well your H must be an android or something because I made it 9 months sexless and found I couldn't sleep and my frustration and anger kept leaking out sideways into all areas of my life and marriage. I came online to the forums (actually a different one but very similar to this) and learned alot about the stage of life where demands of parenting young kids can (in some cases) destroy the sexual relationship.

Ultimately, because I am not an android and had failed at the "giving up on sexlife" plan, I changed course and (ironically) launched a To-The-Death fight against my own wife to save our marriage. Whatever issues were affecting our sexlife, we better get that all out on the table and come to an all around agreeable solution, otherwise we were DONE. I don't want to thread jack so will quickly conclude by saying that was 8 years ago and we have been averaging sex 2X per week ever since. 

Suffice to say, some of us can REALLY identify with your story.


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

kTc said:


> If men and their worth are defined by their virile sexuality, *women are often pigeonholed into being valued by their youth and beauty*, both of which are time-sensitive commodities.
> 
> As stranger interest fades, my husband's attention and desire becomes that much more critical for me. I have always wanted my husband's desire, and now it feels as if it's nearly all I have left. That has made me much more needy.


One of the biggest challenges for both men and women at midlife is to let go of the cultural archetypes that provide a frame of reference in early adulthood. The years 20 -40 are spent trying to meet the world's expectations. We see these images in the magazines, in the cinema ... everywhere we go basically. The task at midlife is to realize you are whole, lacking nothing. Your job is then to filter out the cultural projections and engage passion and love in a way that fulfills you. 

One of the frequent contributors here has this thoughtful tagline: 

'And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.' 
- Friedrich Nietzsche (1823)

The pigeonhole you describe is based on a dysfunctional idea you are free to reject. And then you can dance and not worry that our younger generation can't hear the music. (anyway ... this is what I am trying at 46  ) Kindest Regards-


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

"Forgive the vulgar comparison, but this thread has me riveted unlike anything since the last few episodes of Breaking Bad, can barely wait for your next post." tommyr

Perhaps because it give us all hope that with two relatively selfless people who are committed to each other can actually work through the hurts and break through beyond our problems to an even better relationship?


----------



## Trader1 (Oct 27, 2013)

Might be a troll, they seem to write some of the most "riveting" posts here.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Bingo Trader!


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I chickened out again Saturday night, and chose not to interrupt our nice night together. We both enjoyed the night, but it backfired on me Sunday.

We spoke at length on Sunday, at my request. It backfired, because early in our discussion he accused me of always picking "fights" on work nights. Having already broken the ice, I took that blow and kept on fighting.

This discussion did not go anywhere near as well as the first. I'm not sure if it was the three bottles of wine and their increased honesty, or if it was his anger with me for bringing it up on a Sunday night, but he seemed far less cooperative and far more brutally honest.

He seemed to get his claws out early, so I tried an even softer opening, saying that I felt we should talk about having a more balanced sex life, stressing that I wanted to especially listen to his perspective. I promised him I would listen, not interrupt, not talk over him, and not judge him.

He was completely against the conversation with his arms crossed and an annoyed tone to his voice. I had to prod him with "why" questions to even get him to talk at first. But once I asked him why he no longer felt safe to initiate, he unleashed.

He said isn't this what you want? I reiterated some of our prior conversation. I stressed my future-oriented optimism. He said he found my new priorities ironic. I asked him to explain more. "I was against it, before I was for it," I believe were his words. People change, I told him. He said, too late. He doesn't want to change. He's been through too much to change now.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

He spat out he has been feeling angry with himself for indulging me on the last conversation. I asked why? Said it makes him feel too vulnerable, too unsafe.

It gives me too much control, again. Just like when I "controlled" our sex life, apparently. What were my hang ups and deprogramming were seen by him as methods to control him and manipulate his behavior. Particularly in early in our marriage.

We continued with our wine, and he really warmed up to bringing up the past. No matter whether he was aggressive, passive, talked with me, hinted, etc. he never could control the outcome. Said he hates things he can't control or win. Hence the golf, car, and career.

Said it eventually began to feel like a power struggle to him. Said it was horrible. Horrible to feel at odds with his wife. I've been listening. None of this is too shocking yet. I'm really trying hard not to be defensive. More wine.

Then he drops this bomb. Our son came. Said he felt the worst imaginable feelings as a new father. He originally resented our son at some raw level. He has never told anyone until telling me now, but he felt some primal jealousy of his own new son. Once identifying that awful emotion, he then hated himself. I'm stunned. I had never known. Has always been a great enthusiastic father from what I've observed. But he was jealous of the time and attention our new son received from me.

Said that was yet another danger of the dynamic. He put that hellatious emotion into a box and forget about it forever. Tried to put energy into becoming best father ever.

Eventually began crying while divulging all of this to me. I've only seen him cry one other time, when his father died tragically, too young.

He dealt with some anger toward women in general. He actively avoid dealing with women in business. He found he had to work through that too. All of these feelings were related to feeling controlled, helpless, or powerless. Said it really darkened his outlook on life, made him less trusting of people, particularly women. None of this was easy to hear.

During the conversation, while baring his soul, he said even now he feels foolish for telling me the full, honest truth. Something about handing me the ammunition to hurt him yet again.

We never even got around to talking about the future, fixing things, or making a plan to compromise.

We both got too drunk. Stumbled to bed. No sex. Too drunk anyway.

This morning, I slept in with a mild hangover. He was gone to work when I woke. Acted like it never happened this evening.

I'm not sure how I feel. I remember most of the conversation. Most of it was him talking, crying, and expressing his anger and bitterness again. But this time, it all seemed far more deep and profound. My early optimism is tempered a bit.

I've tried to stay positive and optimistic, but his pain seems entrenched and deep. The ensuing work, if he's still willing to work toward a fix, looms larger than I thought.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I'd say you may have made a breakthrough. His crying and letting out those hidden emotions are a good sign, in my view. 

There's a lot bottled up inside that man. You're just now getting to some of it -- he opened up like he never has to anyone. You can feel good about that. Just remember to never, ever use it as ammunition. I know how that feels; I reckon lots of people do. But to me, I think you made progress, he made progress. Be his ally. Use his opening up as a lever to open him up more, but tread lightly as he is obviously struggling. You may be the only one who can help him at the moment.

You write and spell very well, by the way. I'm a little anal about that, so I appreciate when people do it so well.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

doubletrouble said:


> I'd say you may have made a breakthrough. His crying and letting out those hidden emotions are a good sign, in my view.
> 
> There's a lot bottled up inside that man. You're just now getting to some of it -- he opened up like he never has to anyone. You can feel good about that. Just remember to never, ever use it as ammunition. I know how that feels; I reckon lots of people do. But to me, I think you made progress, he made progress. Be his ally. Use his opening up as a lever to open him up more, but tread lightly as he is obviously struggling. You may be the only one who can help him at the moment.
> 
> You write and spell very well, by the way. I'm a little anal about that, so I appreciate when people do it so well.


Thank you for the compliment. I have to confess that I haven't been proofreading every post, particularly late-night, wine-inspired ones, but I do always try to take the time to use correct grammar and spelling. I find incorrect English (their, they're, its , it's, we, we're, etc.) distracts me when I read comments. Worse yet, missing paragraphs, capitalization, and commas can make posts arduous to read through. They become one massive block of monolithic text that requires parsing to understand. It's nearly a chore.

I really do appreciate all of the feedback so far. I'm a bit clueless how to proceed at this point. I still feel lonely and unwanted. I know it's going to take time to work through this, but I am dealing with my desperate needs now.

Sex and initiating sex occupies my mind constantly throughout the day. It feels like it takes every ounce of willpower to refrain from trying to initiate with him every single night.

I still want him, and I want him now. Knowing he'll often indulge me, is hard. I am not strictly denied sex, just the type of sex that promotes the intimacy I crave. I want him to want me. Herein lies my torture.

He rarely flat out denies me; he just doesn't initiate. When we are together, his lackluster attitude can make it feel like he's just humoring me. I want more than obligatory sex.

I understand I've injured him. I know he's carrying a lot of baggage that's inhibiting genuine desire.

What I don't know is where to go from here. I don't want to have deep 3 hour conversations every couple of days. I don't think he does either.

I do feel like I need to quietly, without a lot of fanfare, demonstrate my trustworthiness again to him. We've exchanged a lot of words. Now I need to prove my intentions to him. He's fond of saying, "Talk is cheap; I care about actions."

I need to show him, make him understand, that my desire for him is now durable. That it's not just a phase, I have a new understanding, and I will forever see intimacy differently.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Don't forget he needs to prove it to you as well. The pendulum swings both ways. 

Maybe you can have talks once a week. From my experience, scheduling them sometimes works, but it's not for everyone. At least once a week for a month, maybe try that to start. If you do something for 30 days, it tends to become a habit.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening KtC
This sounds so difficult. I wish he could just forgive and be happy. 
I know that after many years (decades) of frustration, lack of sex and other serious relationship problems, I had a "talk" with my wife. She apologized -and that was it. All is forgiven, we love each other and are happy. I wish more people could learn to forgive - it really helps the person doing the forgiving even more than the one who is forgiven.

In your case, maybe you should avoid having serious talks after too much alcohol. I think he just needs to learn to trust you again, to believe and trust that you won't take advantage of him.

The desire for sex / intimacy makes men vulnerable. It takes trust to be willing to be vulnerable to someone. 

I think you are doing all the right things, I'm just sorry this isn't resolving more quickly.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Forgiveness is easier, in my experience, when there are fewer layers of crap to forgive.


----------



## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm having a hard time getting a good understanding of the situation. Can you answer the following:
1. How many years have you been married?
2. For how many years of your marriage did you reject him? 
3. How often were you rejecting him?
4. During the early years of your marriage, even with your rejections of him how often were the two of you intimate?
5. What was the longest stretch the two of you went without sex and was that because you were rejecting him or because he gave up trying?
6. Did he ever have a serious discussion with you of how your rejection was affecting him?
7. It seems he has been rejecting you for the last 2 years, right? 
8. Are these recent discussions the first that you asked him what was going on with all his rejection of you?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

It sounds like in your situation your husband restructured his psychology after your rejection when he was earlier in his career. He focused on his career and other things he could control and killed his impulse for you. You now are seeing the light and your sexuality has kicked in, and it burns, it stings, it itches, it has to be taken care of. Husband is still repressed under all the protective layers that make up his new psyche.

I too wonder how many years the low to no sex period was. And I'm glad you see the light. You can now realize the pain you must have caused and PREACH to other women who may not consider their males sexual requirement.

By the way, I don't even think he is "paying you back" per say. I think he has adjusted his psyche and his requirement for it is low, but also a fear that you will take it away from him again, and by not starting it up he protects himself from that pain, the same pain you feel...


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

treyvion said:


> It sounds like in your situation your husband restructured his psychology after your rejection when he was earlier in his career. He focused on his career and other things he could control and killed his impulse for you. You now are seeing the light and your sexuality has kicked in, and it burns, it stings, it itches, it has to be taken care of. Husband is still repressed under all the protective layers that make up his new psyche.
> 
> I too wonder how many years the low to no sex period was. And I'm glad you see the light. You can now realize the pain you must have caused and PREACH to other women who may not consider their males sexual requirement.
> 
> By the way, I don't even think he is "paying you back" per say. I think he has adjusted his psyche and his requirement for it is low, but also a fear that you will take it away from him again, and by not starting it up he protects himself from that pain, the same pain you feel...


This is what I see too.. I really think this story needs shouted from the roof tops to young women/Mothers -in regards to our husbands.. I don't want to say IF.. but *WHEN* he allows himself to TRUST again...after he gets ALL OF THIS OUT..... ugly as it may be...to want to put a stop to the bitterness, as it's destroying you both, just wasting what COULD BE...here and now....(his talking/ crying is the best sign it's gonna happen though.. I believe that!)...it NEEDS to come out.. like a Dam that has broke...

Your message here, the severity of how this can affect a MAN, his psyche, to compartmentalize like this all these years, the power to suppress our deepest desires...it's effects on a marriage, is so strong.*.when* this is mended, you are back in each others arms/ intimacy flourishing, forgiveness has gone forth for the years lost...I think the 2 of you should do a seminar together.. what a powerful message you will have for us all to take heed. 

Just reading this.. I HURT for BOTH OF YOU.... 



> *KtC said:* Then he drops this bomb. Our son came. Said he felt the worst imaginable feelings as a new father. *He originally resented our son at some raw level. He has never told anyone until telling me now, but he felt some primal jealousy of his own new son.* Once identifying that awful emotion, he then hated himself. I'm stunned. I had never known. Has always been a great enthusiastic father from what I've observed.* But he was jealous of the time and attention our new son received from me.
> 
> Said that was yet another danger of the dynamic. He put that hellatious emotion into a box and forget about it forever. Tried to put energy into becoming best father ever.
> 
> Eventually began crying while divulging all of this to me. I've only seen him cry one other time, when his father died tragically, too young*.


I've read other men speak like this.. they too hated themselves..so very sad.... none of this should be. 



> *KtC said:* *He dealt with some anger toward women in general. He actively avoid dealing with women in business. He found he had to work through that too. All of these feelings were related to feeling controlled, helpless, or powerless. Said it really darkened his outlook on life, made him less trusting of people, particularly women. None of this was easy to hear.
> 
> During the conversation, while baring his soul, he said even now he feels foolish for telling me the full, honest truth. Something about handing me the ammunition to hurt him yet again.*


 Wow..this even affected how he looked at women as a whole..



> *Abc123wife said:* I'm having a hard time getting a good understanding of the situation. Can you answer the following:
> 
> 1. How many years have you been married?
> 2. For how many years of your marriage did you reject him?
> ...


Looking back.. Ktc... was your husband reasonable in what he wanted back then?? If he had his way..what would sex/ intimacy look like ?? and looking back to where you were.. what did you want.. how big was the divide? 

KtC....as a woman who has experienced lower drive (feeling pressured/ bothered...busy Mom, preoccupied) ....and NOW "unsatisfied" high drive ...you've been on both sides of this .... which has been more difficult??


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

treyvion said:


> It sounds like in your situation your husband restructured his psychology after your rejection when he was earlier in his career. He focused on his career and other things he could control and killed his impulse for you. You now are seeing the light and your sexuality has kicked in, and it burns, it stings, it itches, it has to be taken care of. Husband is still repressed under all the protective layers that make up his new psyche.
> 
> I too wonder how many years the low to no sex period was. And I'm glad you see the light. You can now realize the pain you must have caused and PREACH to other women who may not consider their males sexual requirement.
> 
> By the way, I don't even think he is "paying you back" per say. I think he has adjusted his psyche and his requirement for it is low, but also a fear that you will take it away from him again, and by not starting it up he protects himself from that pain, the same pain you feel...


It's hard for me to assess how long the conflict period was, because I just didn't care much about the conflict. I remember the discussions and even arguments peppered here and there in our early marriage. I look back and realize I marginalized the gravity of the situation. I didn't understand how strong his feelings were and how important this was to him, so it really didn't occupy much of my thoughts.

After speaking with him, I realize now that he was carrying this frustration and sense of powerless around much of the time, while I was willingly clueless. This continual frustration evolved into anger, and then into bitterness and cynicism.

From my honest assessment now, it seems more like a coping defense mechanism and not something designed to now punish me intentionally.

I am really trying to put myself into his shoes, because I want to understand his feelings and motivations. I am guessing that my recently changed attitudes toward sex and intimacy have really confused him. That I'm now asking him to tear down this wall he's built and to express a need and want that was so lopsided for so long is probably also confusing to him.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Abc123wife said:


> I'm having a hard time getting a good understanding of the situation. Can you answer the following:
> 1. How many years have you been married?
> 2. For how many years of your marriage did you reject him?
> 3. How often were you rejecting him?
> ...


1. We've been married twenty years.

2. It's hard for me to say definitively, because early on I didn't place much emphasis on sex. I think the worst rejection happened in the early years, particularly after our son was born.

3. Again, it's difficult to say for me objectively. I remember we had sex, and I remember I wasn't always up for it. I do remember not understanding why he used to get so upset about it.

4. In high weeks probably twice a week. In low times, maybe a couple or few times a month. This is really a guess.

5. I'm not completely sure. I know for sure that last year, I began to see that he seemed less interested than I preferred. I went through a period where I tried desperately to rouse him into initiating. When that consistently and miserably failed, I decided that I would stop initiating until he did. Three months of zero sex later, I broke down and initiated. So recently, we've gone as long as three months. In fact, that was the period in which my frustration culminated into me beginning my research into this problem.

6. Yes. We spoke about it many times early in our marriage. We even fought about it.

7. He doesn't outright reject me often. It happens occasionally. He just isn't that interested in sex, and he rarely initiates.

8. When my interest renewed, I'd hint, I'd prod him. I'd tell him we should have sex more often. He'd halfheartedly say, "Sure. Whatever makes you happy." Those were my early warning signs something was amiss. Then, I escalated it by asking why we weren't having more sex. He'd dance around that one, "We can have sex any time that you want to." Notice he'd put the emphasis back onto me, careful never to hint any about his desires. Then, I finally began to anger and ask him, "Why aren't we having more sex?" He'd respond back that he rarely turns me down and, and I can ask for it whenever I want it. It was hardly the glowing endorsement I was wanting.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I would suggest reading up on information regarding Walk Away Wife Syndrome for some good insight.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Looking back.. Ktc... was your husband reasonable in what he wanted back then?? If he had his way..what would sex/ intimacy look like ?? and looking back to where you were.. what did you want.. how big was the divide?
> 
> KtC....as a woman who has experienced lower drive (feeling pressured/ bothered...busy Mom, preoccupied) ....and NOW "unsatisfied" high drive ...you've been on both sides of this .... which has been more difficult??


SimplyAmorous, thank you for your response. I agree. I wish someone had spoken to me in my youth, or even during my thirties. I cringe to think about the years wasted. I've been fighting this issue for around two years; he's been carrying this around for two decades.

For me, having the higher desire is far worse.

When we fought about sex years ago and I was the lower desire partner, I remember feeling very annoyed at times. I remember growing tired of having the same discussions and arguments. I remember giving into sex just to keep the peace, which doesn't feel good.

But now? Now I feel like a needy, emotional wreck. Sometimes it feels like I think about sex all of the time. Some time back, I began to try to catch men's eyes, just for some male acknowledgement.

I crave my husband's touch. When he touches me, I hate myself, because I find myself greedily wanting him to escalate his attention, every time. In the car, I'll move his hand from my knee to my inner thigh. Then I'll move it to my breast. Sometimes he obliges, and sometimes he rolls his eyes at me.

If we kiss during a movie, I'll torture myself debating whether I should try sometime more. Should I? Would he be receptive? Am I annoying him? Is he too tired, too full? Is he just humoring me?

We go to bed, and I hope (as I always do, lately) that he'll jump onto me and ravish me. He doesn't. I waffle in my head over what to do. Should I? Would he? Surely he doesn't want to, or does he?

Usually, while I'm running this inner debate, I eventually hear his heavy breathing, signalling he's now asleep. At that point, I rarely wake him up, because waking him for sex he doesn't even want on a work night seems especially unfair. Since he fell asleep so fast and so easily, it meant he actually didn't want to, right? Or did it? Would he have? Would he have felt my waking him was worth it? These questions actually prevent me from falling asleep some nights.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Then, as the higher drive partner, there are the times when I've gone all out.

I've arrived to bed naked, and he has either not noticed that or ignored it.

I've caught him reading in bed. I'll "take a shower" (as fast as I can) and change into something silky to surprise him. Only he doesn't seem so surprised, or even happy about it. Let alone enthusiastic, which is what I really want and need.

I'll casually remark we should sleep in this Saturday and make love until lunch time. "Sure." Sure?  Your response is, "Sure"!? Ugh. I want my man to go crazy over that.

As we've aged together, my husband has never been sexier to me. He has gorgeous hair. There is some gray mixed into it now, and that actually drives me crazy! The gray hair and time's lines on his face complement the incredible life wisdom and confidence that he's gained over the years. He's a confident leader, been successful, lived through just about everything life can throw at him, and he's emerged through all of that stronger. He looks the part too, and now I find myself lusting for him.

Then I think about myself. I feel less attractive than ever before all the while I find him more sexy than before. It's tough. It feels like the balance there is tilted against me.

I see women my age checking him out with regular frequency. Hell, I occasionally catch women close to my son's age checking him out! While we're on a dinner date!

It's a compliment, for sure. They probably think I'm a lucky ***** to have such a gorgeous husband. They think he's hunting me down non-stop, can't keep his hands off of me, and that he's all mine. Well sort of. I'm with him, but I'm the wife whose hot successful husband doesn't chase her and doesn't seem to want her sexually.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You realize that all the feelings you are describing were felt by him before, right?


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Faithful Wife
I'm sure she does.

I think it is very difficult for someone on one side of the HD/LD relationship to really understand what the other side is like unless they change.


Both sides are awful. Being rejected by the person you love about something so important and intimate is absolutely devastating. 

Feeling you are just a sex object to the person you love generates a different sort of deep unhappiness. Not the desperate need, but a anger and resentment, and a lack of respect for you partner. That lack of respect becomes a lack of self respect because you are with them.

It is so difficult to make people understand how serious this is.




Faithful Wife said:


> You realize that all the feelings you are describing were felt by him before, right?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kTc said:


> SimplyAmorous, thank you for your response. I agree. I wish someone had spoken to me in my youth, or even during my thirties. I cringe to think about the years wasted. I've been fighting this issue for around two years; he's been carrying this around for two decades.
> 
> For me, having the higher desire is far worse.
> 
> ...


In short, it sounds like you need more than your getting. I know it feels like a wooden plank to the face at times, a burn a hunger that never gets satisfied and it feels like it's wearing your health down to suffer through it.

I don't know what to say to get him to want it more with you. Perhaps raise up your own physical appearance game and use social validation. A husband will want to claim his wife for his own, so if other suiters are persuing her his interest and attention will be peaked.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, it's very serious. The male/female dynamic is so often unbalanced (and can remain unbalanced) and the LD person literally doesn't understand the problem because they don't feel what the HD person feels. Hopefully, it won't be that way here. But what if it is? What if he remains as uninterested, and you have a permanent surge in your drive and not a temporary one -- can you live the life he lived for all those years?


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

My wife lost her libido shortly after the first child was conceived and I was pretty upset for a few years. Eventually though, I found other things to fill the void. I built a long string of custom AR style rifles. I found out I had a knack with plants and adopted a gardening hobby. I wound up in a job that demanded nearly eighty hours a week.

She did not get it back until around the time the youngest was graduating from high school and going off to college. Suddenly, she wanted sex all the damn time.

You would think I would have been happy about that. But I wasn't. Not even a little bit. I found out that all the crap I had buried was still there. It still comes out in weird ways sometimes.

Your past situation as you describe it doesn't sound nearly as bad as what I remember with my wife. I think your husband will be okay with a little patience and kindness.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

treyvion said:


> In short, it sounds like you need more than your getting. I know it feels like a wooden plank to the face at times, a burn a hunger that never gets satisfied and it feels like it's wearing your health down to suffer through it.
> 
> I don't know what to say to get him to want it more with you. Perhaps raise up your own physical appearance game and use social validation. *A husband will want to claim his wife for his own, so if other suiters are persuing her his interest and attention will be peaked*.


Maybe, maybe not. This situation is very different from my ex wife and I, but it is similar in that I had lost all attraction to her because of mental walls I had built to protect myself. By all exterior standards, my ex wife was gorgeous, top shelf material, and she wanted sex with me, pursued me, even after we separated, still wanted me in bed, but my desire for her was exactly zero.

As I suggested earlier, while not an exact comparison, I think that understanding the Walk Away Wife (Spouse) Syndrome would shed some understanding on the mental state of her husband.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> My wife lost her libido shortly after the first child was conceived and I was pretty upset for a few years. Eventually though, I found other things to fill the void. I built a long string of custom AR style rifles. I found out I had a knack with plants and adopted a gardening hobby. I wound up in a job that demanded nearly eighty hours a week.
> 
> She did not get it back until around the time the youngest was graduating from high school and going off to college. Suddenly, she wanted sex all the damn time.
> 
> ...


You lost between 17-19 years of a sex life? If people knew this was something that could happen they wouldn't be trying to have kids.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

treyvion said:


> You lost between 17-19 years of a sex life? If people knew this was something that could happen they wouldn't be trying to have kids.


More than that, treyvion. You have to add the age gap between oldest and youngest. Somehow my wife and I managed to have two more children, although I can tell the you the day, the hour and what the weather was like when they were conceived.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> My wife lost her libido shortly after the first child was conceived and I was pretty upset for a few years. Eventually though, I found other things to fill the void. I built a long string of custom AR style rifles. I found out I had a knack with plants and adopted a gardening hobby. I wound up in a job that demanded nearly eighty hours a week.
> 
> She did not get it back until around the time the youngest was graduating from high school and going off to college. Suddenly, she wanted sex all the damn time.
> 
> ...


Your history sounds remarkably similar to my husband's and mine.

1. What is your intimate life like now with your wife?
2. You mention it changed suddenly; how did she communicate her new desire to you?
3. Do you recall any of her specific behaviors that greatly helped, or (assuming things are now better) has time been what healed the wounds?
4. Have her changes been consistent and durable over time?

Thank you for sharing.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

I feel I should put out there that I know that things could be far worse. I've continued reading other stories, many of them have brought me to tears. The stories of trying over and over again. The tales of heartbreak over such long periods of time. Some have been without intimacy for decades. Others have fought through horrific abuses exacted upon them in years past that now affect them and their also-innocent spouses.

Neither of us has suffered abuse. I'm not strictly denied all access to sex. I do have a sex life, just not the enthusiasm and frequency I prefer.

I hope I don't come across as too spoiled. I know that my family and I have been blessed with good health and relatively good fortune in life. I love my husband and marriage.

For all of that, I'm very thankful.

This is really the only major complaint I have in life, and while it certainly could be worse, the nature of this issue seems to make it feel so large and affect so much of my thought, life, and psyche.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

tommyr said:


> kTc, pls keep posting.
> Forgive the vulgar comparison, but this thread has me riveted unlike anything since the last few episodes of Breaking Bad, can barely wait for your next post.
> 
> My interest runs deep because (figuratively speaking) I am your husband, and you are my wife. That moment in your story when the conflict reached it's peak: busy with the kids, high stress, difficult finances, you too tired for sex, his libido "a boat anchor around his neck", filled with "shame", a "hormone-crazed pervert" ? I have been in that exact place with my wife !!
> ...


Tommyr, I apologize that I haven't replied to your thoughtful post yet.

Is your wife still lower desire? Has she shown any changes? Have kinds of efforts are you trying to get through to her?

I'm at a loss at the moment on what to do next. I'm very thankful my husband did not fully give up on our marriage.

I have been doing tons of thinking over the last few days about what to do next. I understand that I am going to have to charge ahead and accept more responsibility for our sexual leadership.

This is something I've only really taken the lead on for the last year or so. I think when I first tried taking the lead (first passively, then more aggressively because his initiations finally dwindled away to nearly nothing), I expected my boldness and risk-taking to elicit a much more pronounced response from him than it did.

Originally, before our heavy conversations, I was angry at him. The problem was with him for not responding to my advances. With what I know now (and accepting this is hard) I have to majorly adjust my timetables. I'm not sure how long it's going to take to undo years and years of damage and bitterness. I'm not sure if it can all be undone. I'll take what healing we can accomplish, though.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

kTc said:


> Your history sounds remarkably similar to my husband's and mine.
> 
> 1. What is your intimate life like now with your wife?
> 2. You mention it changed suddenly; how did she communicate her new desire to you?
> ...


If it's not objectionable, I'm going to answer outside of the constraints of these questions.

My wife experienced a medical condition associated with menopause. There are various theories about why this happens, but I don't think anyone really agrees as to the cause. It is very, very temporary and can be over in less than six months.

Libido goes through the roof. We're talking about an insomnia that only sex will cure, inability to concentrate at work, inappropriate thoughts about attractive work mates and a huge amount of just general irritability. 

I don't believe in, "Limping upon two different opinions." Either I wanted to be married to this woman or I did not. It's that simple. It did help that she apologized for the wasted years though.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

treyvion said:


> *You lost between 17-19 years of a sex life? If people knew this was something that could happen they wouldn't be trying to have kids*.


You know what I worry about the most in life in regards to each of our sons...(thanks to TAM)...is this right here... they'd curse the day they were born to have to live in a marriage like that..and there seems no way to predict this either !! 

Here I am the Mother saying "SON...make damn sure she can orgasm & loves touchy/feely affection & can't get enough...or don't dare marry her!".... I just feel this will give them the best odds for a happening sex life... but then resentment or all sorts of other things can enter too... I just wouldn't understand anyone who didn't want regular orgasms...maybe I am wrong but this seems to separate the Low drivers from the High.. 

I often wonder about the wives like Ocotillo...(just curious)...did she NOT orgasm in the past but started to in mid life? ... I know our hormones cause THIS rushing change ....for me it got much more intense but I always felt LIKE THAT too in the past, just LESS OFTEN...but always once he got me going. 

That is a question for kTc ...did you not orgasm in the past with him ... why you didn't care to have sex ..but up to 3 -4 times a month ? Did you ever masturbate - when he was suffering like that , wanting more ?


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ocotillo said:


> My wife experienced a medical condition associated with menopause. There are various theories about why this happens, but I don't think anyone really agrees as to the cause. It is very, very temporary and can be over in less than six months.
> 
> Libido goes through the roof. We're talking about an insomnia that only sex will cure, inability to concentrate at work, inappropriate thoughts about attractive work mates and a huge amount of just general irritability.


 What do you mean -medical condition ??.. did she start taking hormones -which brought this on ..another poster here, Mary35, ..her drive shot up LIKE THAT..in her late 40's... much regret on her behalf too...

I felt *like this* (what you described here)..I even went to my OBGYN & asked about it...(she just told me to enjoy it).. I wasn't on any hormones or anything ... I was undressing every good looking man I seen on the streets, my H found it a bit amusing... I never hid this fact.. when I set my eyes on porn....especially Bj's.. I'd feel shivers right to my private parts... I could hardly sleep.. couldn't keep my hands off him. .. it was CRAZY... I was thinking I had a freaking sex addiction.... 

I know my dopamine was mightily stirred prior to this (a video I made for the 2 of us -I stayed up all night long scanning old photos, added a love song )...when I played this back..it took me by storm.....he will say it started there...


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> If it's not objectionable, I'm going to answer outside of the constraints of these questions.
> 
> My wife experienced a medical condition associated with menopause. There are various theories about why this happens, but I don't think anyone really agrees as to the cause. It is very, very temporary and can be over in less than six months.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Empathy for time lost, damage caused and feelings hurt--a heartfelt apology in other words--can sometimes do more to help resentment than resuming a sex life. 

Take care of the emotional side. Until you do that, throwing yourself at him will do no good.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> What do you mean -medical condition ??.. did she start taking hormones -which brought this on ..another poster here, Mary35, ..her drive shot up LIKE THAT..in her late 40's... much regret on her behalf too...


I don't know if it has a name. I will check. One theory holds that the ovaries shift from producing estrogen to producing testosterone just before they shut down. (The two hormones are similar chemically.) I'm not a doctor, but I do know what I saw - LOL. She was insatiable.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ocotillo said:


> I don't know if it has a name. I will check. One theory holds that the ovaries shift from producing estrogen to producing testosterone just before they shut down. (The two hormones are similar chemically.) I'm not a doctor, but I do know what I saw - LOL. She was insatiable.


So hers SHUT DOWN within 6 months, you mentioned it's very temporary and generally lasts less than 6 months... (I hope she has remained taking care of you -since THIS powerful experience to open her eyes??)

I haven't went through menopause yet...nothing shutting down...that was 5 yrs ago for me.. though I will admit , it's more MENTAL now.. and just wanting to build it up... the insatiable has passed.. I loved it -when I was getting it - but the one track mindedness of that - was too much.. tormenting...at least now I can concentrate on other things! 

Very interesting, learn something new every day..


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Fozzy said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again. Empathy for time lost, damage caused and feelings hurt--*a heartfelt apology in other words--can sometimes do more to help resentment than resuming a sex life.
> 
> Take care of the emotional side. Until you do that, throwing yourself at him will do no good.*


Speaking of apology...I've had this book on my shelf for a few yrs now (same authors as the Love Languages).. I cracked it open earlier tonight while killing some time at one of my kid's practices... I thought of THIS THREAD...

The Five Languages of Apology: How to Experience Healing in all Your Relationships: ...speaking the LANGUAGE of apology our partner needs (how THEY SEE IT) will be necessary to overcome here.. 










Just a piece of this article >>Five Languages of Apology by Gary Chapman: Improve Your Marriage



> *The Five Languages of Apology*
> 
> People apologize in different ways. And each way of apologizing has a different meaning. Here are the five forms of apology that Dr. Chapman and Ms. Thomas present in The Five Languages of Apology:
> 
> ...


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm late to this thread, but I did want to let you know that I had a similar situation in my marriage, and it has been turned around. 

After having children (more than ten years into our relationship with its very good sex life) I rejected my husband for the next ten years--not always, but sex a few times a month was far below what he wanted and needed and was used to, and the fall- out from that put our marriage in the tank in several different ways. 

When I finally came to understand how lack of sexual intimacy was affecting him--truly making him less of the man he could be--I went to him and apologized and we began working on the issues we'd been rug sweeping for years. 

That was a year and a half ago, and my libido is as strong as it it ever was before kids--probably stronger. And that's what brings me around to being on the other side . . . I want sex every day. Three or four days a week used to sound like ALL THE TIME to me. Now it's barely enough to keep me going. 

You can read my story at the link in my sig if you want; but trust me when I say that there were some male posters who lashed out at me and said they hoped I'd get to feel the pain of rejection. Well, now I do lay awake some nights just _wanting_ him so damn bad . . . and although it's frustrating, the worst is knowing that he felt like that for _ten years._ And he stayed. And he was faithful. And he welcomed me back with open arms and forgave me and worked with me on untangling what had happened so that it would never happen again. 

It's so hard to talk to him about wanting more sex. I feel like I don't have any ground to stand on. At the same time, I know what the slow erosion of sexual intimacy did to us the first time, and I get paranoid if we go through a period where there is not a lot of sex happening. But I've also found out that I cannot pressure him.

As Fozzy said, I think apologizing and acknowledging his pain from the years you rejected him is crucial. It was a very important part of the reconciliation process with my husband--he needed to understand why I was suddenly "getting it," and he needed to know that I had come to understand the degree of emotional pain I had caused by rejecting him.


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> I'm late to this thread, but I did want to let you know that I had a similar situation in my marriage, and it has been turned around.
> 
> After having children (more than ten years into our relationship with its very good sex life) I rejected my husband for the next ten years--not always, but sex a few times a month was far below what he wanted and needed and was used to, and the fall- out from that put our marriage in the tank in several different ways.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> So hers SHUT DOWN within 6 months, you mentioned it's very temporary and generally lasts less than 6 months... (I hope she has remained taking care of you -since THIS powerful experience to open her eyes??)


It can last only six months. With my wife, it lasted nearly four years. She also had an usually long menopause proper that spanned nearly ten years. I don't know if there is any connection, but thought I would throw that out anyway.


----------



## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

Wow, so we finally have our sexless-marriage-man poster boy hero!
It only took him 25 years or so and BOOM!! Payback time! Revenge is a dish best served cold! In yo face, frigid biatch. Shoes on the other foot, how do you like me now? How's it feel? Do you like it? Huh?!

Seriously, he's done what we've all dreamed of... withholding sex long enough to get the LD spouse to notice! But wow, it took 20+ years. Ouch.

This is not a recipe for success.

Being rejected like that does eat you up. I felt it for a long time. That's how I eventually found this site last year. But since then, I realized something else, too: I was a spineless pu55y!

Realizing it, admitting it, and doing something about it wasn't easy work, but it was worth it. I was finally able to stand up and have the life I wanted. It included being willing to leave the marriage. 

Unfortunately, your husband decided to kill a part of himself to get through this. Now he's a bit broken. How you acted back then might be considered wrong. But he should have handled it with you, even if it meant leaving. But now he's withholding a big part of making a marriage work. You shouldn't put up with it. Notice the emphasis I'm putting on the difference in this flip-flop:

*His version of how this will work:*
Back then: You withheld intimacy
Now: He withholds intimacy

*The real solution:*
Back then: He shouldn't put up with how the marriage was going
Now: You shouldn't put up with how the marriage is going.

I like the 5 languages of being sorry. Find a way to iterate how repentful you are. I don't know if a long letter would work. (It seems like he dominates any attempt you have while talking) Sign you both up for marriage counseling. Let him know you're committed to making this work. But you won't sit around putting up with revenge. Let him know that he didn't hand you ammunition to hurt him with. You're not some businessman out to backstab him, you're his wife, dammit! And a more mature, understanding wife now. You were once an idiot, or damaged, and you screwed up. But you're moving forward now.


A person can't sit back for 20 years with a problem like this and not take any blame for how it worked out!


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> You know what I worry about the most in life in regards to each of our sons...(thanks to TAM)...is this right here... they'd curse the day they were born to have to live in a marriage like that..and there seems no way to predict this either !!
> 
> Here I am the Mother saying "SON...make damn sure she can orgasm & loves touchy/feely affection & can't get enough...or don't dare marry her!".... I just feel this will give them the best odds for a happening sex life... but then resentment or all sorts of other things can enter too... I just wouldn't understand anyone who didn't want regular orgasms...maybe I am wrong but this seems to separate the Low drivers from the High..
> 
> ...


I always appreciate your posts.

Orgasms and masturbation felt like forbidden topics growing up. I really didn't shed the feelings of shame associated with them into well into my marriage.

Early in marriage, I did not speak up to him about what made me feel good. Looking back, it didn't feel safe to do so, not because of anything he did or said, but because of my upbringing.

Now that I think about it, it took me quite a long time to genuinely enjoy guilt and shame free sex. It took achieving that before I could even contemplate suggesting my preferences or what I wanted out of sex. The evolved over a few years, and as I very slowly became more assertive about sex, slightly more aggressive, I realized that I had been selling myself short all of these years.

Also, I came to realize that life is short, and the shaming feelings I had felt impressed upon me for so long were completely incompatible with how I really felt about sex with my husband.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again. Empathy for time lost, damage caused and feelings hurt--a heartfelt apology in other words--can sometimes do more to help resentment than resuming a sex life.
> 
> Take care of the emotional side. Until you do that, throwing yourself at him will do no good.


Throwing myself at him too aggressively seems to trigger his defense mechanisms and raise his anxiety.

How can I slowly, gradually, and consistently break through his walls without making him feel threatened?


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

GettingIt said:


> I'm late to this thread, but I did want to let you know that I had a similar situation in my marriage, and it has been turned around.
> 
> After having children (more than ten years into our relationship with its very good sex life) I rejected my husband for the next ten years--not always, but sex a few times a month was far below what he wanted and needed and was used to, and the fall- out from that put our marriage in the tank in several different ways.
> 
> ...


For me, particularly right now, this is an awful place to be.

I'm just on the cusp of coming to the realization of the pain I subjected him to. Plus, I have the added awareness that he's been subjected to this kind of misery an order of magnitude longer.

I want to jump into his arms and wrap my legs around him and yell, "I get it now!" Alas, I am probably 15+ years too late.

I too feel feel like I have no ground to stand on, no justification for feeling like the injured party. That is very hard. I understand that no matter how profound the pain I feel now, he is far more familiar to it. I feel completely unjustified. And yet, I still do not want to give up.

The hardest part, what I weep the most for, it what we could be. Yes, maybe it's far later than it should have been. I know it's _far_ later than he would have preferred. *But we are not dead yet*. _I still want another chance_. One more shot. I want to bless him with everything intimate I can throw at him. I want to spoil him. I want him to feel virile, wanted, needed, sexy, and make him know that from now on, his little wife will ensure he never receives anything less than all of my intimacy and support.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

kTc said:


> Throwing myself at him too aggressively seems to trigger his defense mechanisms and raise his anxiety.
> 
> How can I slowly, gradually, and consistently break through his walls without making him feel threatened?


KTC - I apologize if I missed this (it's a long thread), but have you actually apologized? Like no justifications, or anything, just acknowledged that you hurt him, and recognized the ramifications, and you are genuinely regretful--not because it's now your turn, but because it hurt someone you love?

It's easy to have a long conversation about this kind of thing--drag up a lot of history and old feelings, etc, without actually saying the words the other person really needs to hear. I also like SA's post about apology languages. It may be you just need to find the right way to make him understand you.


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

kTc said:


> Well, I feel like we have a very healthy marriage outside of this one inconsistency. We are affectionate. Despite his work ethic, we almost always make it a point to spend time together in the evenings. We nearly always have dinner together and relax afterward.
> 
> Lately (the last couple of years), I've been trying to gravitate after-dinner entertainment toward intimacy, without much luck. He's up for cuddling during movies, and we are quite affectionate otherwise.
> 
> *Maybe I need to bluntly, directly ask him what we can do to fix this?*


Hi kTc, I've read the entire thread and I just re-read the original few pages to look at how the thoughts have evolved. You want to know what's going on and how to fix this .... Indulge me for a minute as I speak from your DH's perspective:

We had an intimate marriage for a good number of years, and then our wonderful children were born. My DW made the a choice to subordinate my emotional needs to those of the children, and I felt abandoned. I love my children and I love my wife, so I complained to her about this lack of emotional intimacy. I made the decision to create a compartment to hold all these emotions in order to cope with this. Now our children have left the nest and my DW wants to return the focus of her emotional intimacy to me. I want to ask her ... What has changed? There are any number of situations where I may be subordinated again (child gets cancer, parents need help, grandparent responsibility). How do I know for certain she will not make this same choice. I cannot endure another emotional abandonment. 

It's not enough to apologize and there are no amends that can be made. Your DH needs your empathy; it's part of the healing process to share in this pain. Your DH has to know at his core that you won't do this again. Do you feel you were mistaken to place the needs of your children at the expense of intimacy with you DH? If you don't believe you made a mistake, nothing will change. If you work to repair this damage and vow it will never happen again, you can start to rebuild an intimate, loving relationship. Kindest Regards-


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

When I got married, I actually listened to the preacher talk during the sermon. He said the biggest thing to remember in marriage is to learn how to forgive and to let things go. He knew from talking to innumerable couples about their problems that this is the number one issue in marriage. In the U-2 song 'One', Bono says "yeh, we hurt each other and we'll do it again..."

Far from me to tell anyone to forgive. I've only been married for 15 months; I can't tell anyone to forgive when they've been married for 10, 20 30 years and been hurt badly. Although, I have been hurt badly in past relationships and I DID forgive. I know it's super hard.

I only pray that you and your husband can get past the hurts. It sounds like your husband definitely has NOT. I hope that he can eventually let it go and you guys can truly enjoy and seek the intimacy unrestrained by the deep hurts of the past. That will be a wonderous time for you.

Life ain't easy, that's for sure....


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I think what you husband is telling you is that he has repressed his sexuality due to your attitudes about sex. You appeared to him to be repulsed by his sexuality. Now you are telling him you want him to unleash what has been held back, but you have not shown him that you are able to handle it. If he were to let it loose now and you were not available to him, it would be too much for him to bear.
You said yourself in this thread that once a week would be good. I do not think that would satisfy him, based on what he is telling you. You could end up with a man that wanted sex at least 3 times per week, possibly more. What if he wants sex twice a day? I’m serious. He has all this pent up sexual frustration that he has channeled into other areas and he is telling you he is afraid that you will reject him again. So what if he does want sex with you daily? What then? Will you reject him again?
I am asking these questions to help you sort through what he is probably thinking, based on what you posted about his response. These are important questions to ask yourself. For a person with a high drive to put their drive into park, when it comes back again, expect it to be as high as before, even if he is now in his 40’s.



kTc said:


> It's hard for me to assess how long the conflict period was, because I just didn't care much about the conflict. I remember the discussions and even arguments peppered here and there in our early marriage. I look back and realize I marginalized the gravity of the situation. I didn't understand how strong his feelings were and how important this was to him, so it really didn't occupy much of my thoughts.


It will take time, but it is important to start thinking about him and his needs. When you went to all the trouble for his birthday, it wasn’t really about him. It was about you. It is important to learn what his needs are and to work to do your part in meeting them.
He has not felt desired by you for a long time. That is something you are going to have to overcome. He cannot make himself feel desired by you. That will only come from you showing him how much you want him and appreciate him, including his body. You may have to start with non-sexual touch, like giving him a massage when he has had a stressful day. Without expecting it to turn sexual, enjoy touching him and making him feel wonderful and relaxed.


kTc said:


> As we've aged together, my husband has never been sexier to me. He has gorgeous hair. There is some gray mixed into it now, and that actually drives me crazy! The gray hair and time's lines on his face complement the incredible life wisdom and confidence that he's gained over the years. He's a confident leader, been successful, lived through just about everything life can throw at him, and he's emerged through all of that stronger. He looks the part too, and now I find myself lusting for him.


 Do you ever tell your husband any of this? He needs to hear from you how you feel about him.
Do you express your appreciation to him often about things he does as a man? 
There is a book I wrote a review on that explains how to express appreciation to a man in ways that he will connect with. Men and women’s brains are structured differently. If you are interested in learning more, check out my review on the book here: http://thefemininereview.com/marriage/melt-your-mans-heart-review
It is going to take time to repair the damage that has been done. Be patient, but be active in building him up and showing him that you do desire him greatly. You will have to build not only his belief that you desire him, but your trustworthiness that you are going to continue to meet his sexual needs and not go back to rejecting his advances. If he is going to make advances, you cannot turn him down.
I believe that you two will overcome this. He obviously loves you. He will have to work through his feelings, but the fact that he has shared them with you shows that he is able to do that. He has given you a huge gift by opening up to you and sharing his feelings. From how you describe him, it is unlikely that he normally shares such depth with anyone else. Be sure to thank him for that and tell him how much you appreciate his transparency and depth of sharing. He needs to hear that from you. It will also help him to feel safe with you, which is extremely important in resolving these issues.


----------



## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> When I got married, I actually listened to the preacher talk during the sermon. He said the biggest thing to remember in marriage is to learn how to forgive and to let things go.
> 
> I only pray that you and your husband can get past the hurts. It sounds like your husband definitely has NOT. I hope that he can eventually let it go and you guys can truly enjoy and seek the intimacy unrestrained by the deep hurts of the past. That will be a wonderous time for you.
> 
> Life ain't easy, that's for sure....


I agree with the above! You made mistakes early in your marriage due to being young and unknowing. How many of us haven't done that? How do you undo something you didn't understand at the time was harmful? When you knew better, you did better! 

It has been 2 years since you have been trying your hardest to make it up to your husband. He has some big issues if he can't get over it by now. Some will say "but he went through 18 years of hell before that." But it does not sound like you were completely sexless, just less than what he wanted early on in the marriage. 

At any rate, it seems he can't accept that you did not know better and want to make up for it. After 2 years now of trying to make up for it, it appears that he is just revengeful and holding a grudge. Without some serious counseling for him, there may be nothing more that can be done. It doesn't sound like he is going to suddenly change his stance if it hasn't changed in the past 2 years!


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Abc123wife said:


> I agree with the above! You made mistakes early in your marriage due to being young and unknowing. How many of us haven't done that? How do you undo something you didn't understand at the time was harmful? When you knew better, you did better!
> 
> *It has been 2 years since you have been trying your hardest to make it up to your husband*. He has some big issues if he can't get over it by now. Some will say "but he went through 18 years of hell before that." But it does not sound like you were completely sexless, just less than what he wanted early on in the marriage.
> 
> At any rate, it seems he can't accept that you did not know better and want to make up for it. After 2 years now of trying to make up for it, it appears that he is just revengeful and holding a grudge. Without some serious counseling for him, there may be nothing more that can be done. It doesn't sound like he is going to suddenly change his stance if it hasn't changed in the past 2 years!


People keep pointing to how she has been trying for two years now, but I really think that the recovery has only just begun...starting from when they actually started communicating about the issue.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Abc123wife said:


> It has been 2 years since you have been trying your hardest to make it up to your husband. He has some big issues if he can't get over it by now. Some will say "but he went through 18 years of hell before that." But it does not sound like you were completely sexless, just less than what he wanted early on in the marriage.
> 
> At any rate, it seems he can't accept that you did not know better and want to make up for it. After 2 years now of trying to make up for it, it appears that he is just revengeful and holding a grudge. Without some serious counseling for him, there may be nothing more that can be done. It doesn't sound like he is going to suddenly change his stance if it hasn't changed in the past 2 years!


She has not spent any time trying to make it up to him. This has been all about her sexual needs, which is not the same as making it up to him or meeting his needs and especially not about his healing from feeling rejected. She has just within the last few days come to understand his pain and what has been going on with him. This is the first time he has opened up to her about the depth of his pain, what he did to cope and how that is impacting them today. Taking an attitude of entitlement over this will possibly destroy an otherwise wonderful marriage.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

What Cynthia says really rings true to my experience. 

My husband was so conditioned to being rejected for those ten years that it's not like he could just flip a switch and suddenly trust that he could unleash his desire any old way and any old time. 

It was frustrating for me at first, and it required a lot of patience. 

After a period of what I suppose could be described as "hysterical bonding" when I first went to him after "finding" my libido again, we started to struggle. Old habits die hard, and he really didn't trust me emotionally, nor I him. I was struggling to let go of some old resentments so they wouldn't dampen my desire again, and he was struggling to learn to initiate sex again and to not hide how he felt in order to avoid conflict. It was two steps forward, one step back. A year and a half later, it still is. You will need patience, and you will need the ability to see the bigger picture and not allow the steps backward to define the process. 

As Cynthia said, you must work to meet his needs and to understand how those years changed and conditioned him. He is not the same person emotionally. I think it's crucial for you to find a way to appreciate this from his perspective, and to communicate to him that you do appreciate this and that you are deeply sorry. 

One of the things my husband did tell me early in the process was that he believed in my sincerity when I said I was sorry. I really tried to focus many of our conversations around that fact--that I hadn't comprehended, that I had come to comprehend, and that I made me feel utterly bereft to realize that someone I loved was in such hell for so long. Frankly, it was he who finally requested that I stop brining it up. He asked that when I felt the need to express my sorrow to him again, that I just seek him out and hug him instead. And so that is what I did for a long time; and he knew what those hugs meant, and he could hug me back instead of listen to me vent my guilt. Because, really, that venting of guilt eventually was for my peace of mind more than it was for his. 

And it was then--when he asked for the hugs instead--that I really did think about meeting his needs going forward, and it was a stark reminder that not only were his needs are very, very different than mine, but that it could be some time before he was comfortable telling me exactly what his needs are. In the past, he tried to tell me, and I'd dismissed him, so in order to avoid that sort of rejection, he'd gotten used to not telling me what he wanted. 

It's a lonely place to be, sometimes. I get that. And I do agree that your husband has some work to do on himself if he wants to work WITH you on repairing your marriage. You can do everything humanly possible to understand and meet his needs, and be patient while he heals, but you have a limit, too. I think it is vital that you find a way to communicate this to him. I was so, so lucky in that my husband was willing to take a look at what he had contributed to our horrible dynamic for all those years. Your husband is not there yet, it seems. 

I feel horrible saying it, but sometimes I think I never would have lasted a year, let alone ten, if I felt so rejected by my husband. I have asked him why he stuck it out, and he said because there were enough glimmers of hope to keep him going. But everyone is different, so don't make the same mistake your husband did--don't allow this to damage you and change you in ways that might be impossible to undo. 

I strongly, strongly suggest counseling for you--for both of you, if he's willing. I started IC right away when I initiated reconciliation with my husband, and it was a tremendous help. I needed help with purging resentment and learning how to keep it at bay, I needed help with forgiving myself for what I'd done to my husband, and I needed help with being patient with the process. I still go occasionally, because after awhile you do let your guard down, and you find yourself sliding into old habits, you find yourself giving in to old assumptions. 

My marriage is something I now work on consciously every day; and that is something I wish we both had done from the beginning.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> She has not spent any time trying to make it up to him. This has been all about her sexual needs, which is not the same as making it up to him or meeting his needs and especially not about his healing from feeling rejected. She has just within the last few days come to understand his pain and what has been going on with him. This is the first time he has opened up to her about the depth of his pain, what he did to cope and how that is impacting them today. Taking an attitude of entitlement over this will possibly destroy an otherwise wonderful marriage.


That's because she didn't know she had some making up to do.



JerryB said:


> A person can't sit back for 20 years with a problem like this and not take any blame for how it worked out!


He is a passive aggressive pvssy. And it is not an otherwise great marriage if the number one component of any great marriage is a fulfilling and mutually beneficial sex life! Sex is after all how a friendship is differentiated from a marriage, right? They may have a great partnership and a great friendship but they sure as hell do NOT have a great sex life, ergo, not a great marriage!

She is entitled to have his honesty. She is entitled to have problems addressed and worked on. She is entitled to have the opportunity to express herself and be heard, just as her husband is. He didn't avail himself and decided instead to close up shop and sell the business. That was his choice, and a pretty lousy choice at that!

You could spin it that way, that this is all about her sexual needs. But you would then be advising her to go the same idiotic route her husband did.

She has just come to understand his pain because for the past twenty years he has been hiding his pain and for the last two years he has been ignoring her pain. And finally when her pain got to be so great she confronted him about it, he let his bitterness free as he enjoys his dish best served cold.

The recovery could have begun two years ago. It could also have begun 10 years ago. It didn't happen because HE didn't make it happen. It's happening now because SHE is making it happen.

You don't get to be angry and bitter about accepting the unacceptable. He made that choice and now he is forcing it on her.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

JerryB said:


> Wow, so we finally have our sexless-marriage-man poster boy hero!
> It only took him 25 years or so and BOOM!! Payback time! Revenge is a dish best served cold! In yo face, frigid biatch. Shoes on the other foot, how do you like me now? How's it feel? Do you like it? Huh?!
> 
> Seriously, he's done what we've all dreamed of... withholding sex long enough to get the LD spouse to notice! But wow, it took 20+ years. Ouch.
> ...


:iagree:

Best post of the entire thread.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> She has not spent any time trying to make it up to him. This has been all about her sexual needs, which is not the same as making it up to him or meeting his needs and especially not about his healing from feeling rejected. She has just within the last few days come to understand his pain and what has been going on with him. This is the first time he has opened up to her about the depth of his pain, what he did to cope and how that is impacting them today. Taking an attitude of entitlement over this will possibly destroy an otherwise wonderful marriage.


You nailed it. Right or wrong, the perception is still that it is 100% about her.

This is *especially* true, if she expects him to suddenly throw her over his shoulder and carry her off to the bedroom in a heat of passion. 

Nobody could burn up with that level of desire and have it go unfulfilled for very long. They'll either end the relationship, cheat, or through a mental lightening rod, find a way to cope.

It is something I did not realize about myself until fairly recently: That sexual energy was being diverted into violent patterns of thought.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> That's because she didn't know she had some making up to do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Deep breath here AP. Take a step back...it's too early, and we don't have enough to go on to tell if this is a replay of your situation, and going too far too fast down the he's a jerk and should just suck it up route might do more damage at this point...maybe later, but just not yet


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> He is a passive aggressive pvssy.
> <not helping>
> 
> And it is not an otherwise great marriage if the number one component of any great marriage is a fulfilling and mutually beneficial sex life! Sex is after all how a friendship is differentiated from a marriage, right? They may have a great partnership and a great friendship but they sure as hell do NOT have a great sex life, ergo, not a great marriage!
> ...


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

kTc

Keep up the good work of self-examination and truly listening to your husband and responding in a relationally safe manner. That is what it will take to begin the journey you two are on.
Neither of you is perfect, so this recovery is not going to be perfect either, but you will get there now that you both understand the problem and want to make your marriage work. Your husband has stood by you this long and he has told you he isn't going away. Your man loves you.
He may not be desiring you as you would like, but that will take time for him to warm back up again. He has turned it off. The engine is cold. That will not last forever. I really believe you will be able to ignite the spark again and heal.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I disagree he was passive-aggressive. He tried to talk to her about it. She didn't understand (which makes sense since she was LD at the time) and he gave up (also understandable) and dealt with life as it was. 

Now the question is will he be able to come back from this. Not everyone could or would. I certainly hope he can and does -- and the talks about it to clear the air are great -- but she should be prepared for her next step (whatever that might be) if he can't or won't.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Ktc, what are your husbands sexual fantasies? The reason I ask is because I was in the same boat your husband is in. I had lost attraction for my wife after a pattern of sustained rejection, but we managed to turn it around. But in my case, my wife eventually had a drunken one night stand with a neighbor and she felt and showed a hell of a lot of remorse. She was willing to do anything to make up for her mistake. Now, I felt that her remorse was sincere, so I decided for R. I wanted to be desired by the one person I chose to be my sexual partner for the rest of my life, just like you want right now. The rejection felt no different. But now I had an ace card. If she really wanted to reconcile, she would have to show desire. But I'm also not a complete idiot. I know you can't fake desire forever. After thinking about it a lot, I decided that the only way I could really have what I needed from her was to find out what turned her on and do it. So I got her drunk a few times and started chatting about things that turned me on. I had rejected the few fantasies and kinks she shared with me in the past, so she was afraid to tell me for fear of getting my prior response. But after the drunken ONS, all bets were off. I was either going to have a wife who f*cking wanted me or I was going to get a divorce. So, I got her drunk because she was afraid to tell me. The previous time she did, I shut her down because I thought I wouldn't be able to deliver. So I got a hell of a lot of details about what she wanted, what she craved. While sitting in our living room, I would laugh and act silly and tell her I felt like watching some porn. I would tell her ahead of time that I didn't expect sex that night, that I was just in a mood to talk about porn. I would bring something up, say it looks hot, and ask her what she finds hot. What kind of porn did she like? She would show me. 
I used that information to turn her on. I just needed to know what she was desiring. Now, my situation is a bit different. My wife suffered some terrible abuse in her past, which is why she was so afraid to open up to me. But after knowing all the details about what she wanted, I was able to provide. I wasn't about to make the same mistake twice!


when I learned how to turn her on, I was able to turn sex into something to look forward to. I forgave her hang ups because I knew I had a part in them and them. She had been taught by her past not to trust men and I didn't help by rejecting her kink. Your husband has been taught by his past not to trust women. YOU had been taught to downplay the importance of sexuality.

So, in the end, I think you should find out what HIS fantasies are. You may already know them. If you can't get it out of him, start with the things you have rejected in the past that he expressed interest in.
Just be sure tot find a way to be open and honest. I'm not going to go into details about it here, but at first I reacted in a much worse way than your husband did when she brought our sex life up. But of course, my situation was a bit different. I know that both of us resented each other for each others rejections. 

Those sexual turn ons and kinks are powerful. Today you would think that we were a couple of horny teens. 

So, do you know what turns him on? If not, FIND OUT! 

And don't give up. Your one of the brave ones on TAM. you can do this. Time, effort, and optimism are your friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

He took a business trip in another city and brought me along. Staying in the five star hotel got the best of me, and I succumbed to the romantic room.

I initiated once on Saturday and once on Sunday. His enthusiasm seemed minimal for both romps.

After our Sunday session, I told him, "We ought to do this more often. It's a way to celebrate each other, our marriage, and our lives together."

He said, "Sure."

Sure. Sure! Ugh. I stayed calm, but it stung. Sure.

I said, "I would like to have you more often and place a little more emphasis on our intimacy. Would you?" I phrased it carefully, trying to word it to make him feel wanted.

His response: "Baby, we can make love anytime that you want to."

He had to include the "that you want to." Ugh. I'm trying to be patient. This feels like his escape clause. He validates my feelings and shares my sentiment at a minimum level, safely, without expressing too much desire of his own, thus staying safe from rejection.


----------



## Trader1 (Oct 27, 2013)

Maybe he wants to more than you realize and is just playing it safe. Don't over analyze everything, just go with it and initiate whenever and wherever you feel like. I'm thinking you're not going to get rejected very often.

Stop talking and start doing.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Trader1 said:


> Maybe he wants to more than you realize and is just playing it safe. Don't over analyze everything, just go with it and initiate whenever and wherever you feel like. I'm thinking you're not going to get rejected very often.
> 
> Stop talking and start doing.


You may be right about over analyzing. I don't get rejected often, but I want him to take the lead. Just 1 out of maybe 5 sessions would make things feel more even.

I am terrified that I've broken him permanently. I suppose that I am happy enough overall to live out my life like this (I'm still getting some intimacy).

But I know what we're capable of, and it saddens me to think that we're missing out on that. How can I make him understand that? Our potential?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kTc said:


> He took a business trip in another city and brought me along. Staying in the five star hotel got the best of me, and I succumbed to the romantic room.
> 
> I initiated once on Saturday and once on Sunday. His enthusiasm seemed minimal for both romps.
> 
> ...


Your only hope is like a guy in the same position. Use social validation in hopes that his competitive juices will come and claim his wife.

Sexy might not have an effect on him, because he may have compartamentalized himself such that it is no longer a strong impetus on him.

Sorry to hear of your pain. The statement that he made is one that makes sense and sounds good to say, but I don't think deep in his heart it's that important to him.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

kTc said:


> He took a business trip in another city and brought me along. Staying in the five star hotel got the best of me, and I succumbed to the romantic room.
> 
> I initiated once on Saturday and once on Sunday. His enthusiasm seemed minimal for both romps.
> 
> ...


You are right. He is not risking rejection. He is playing it safe and seeing what you are going to do. When he said, "Baby, we can make love anytime that you want to." He is asking you to show him how much you want him. Try to see this as the opportunity it is for you to build trust. His trust lies in your trustworthiness.
Take this as a big green light. Do not despair. If you view this from a different perspective, it is a good thing. Embrace this.


kTc said:


> You may be right about over analyzing. I don't get rejected often, but I want him to take the lead. Just 1 out of maybe 5 sessions would make things feel more even.
> 
> I am terrified that I've broken him permanently. I suppose that I am happy enough overall to live out my life like this (I'm still getting some intimacy).


He will take the lead when he feels safe to do so. That is going to take a long time. I would say at least a year. In the mean time, encourage him. Tell him what you enjoy about him. He needs to know that you really mean it. Tell him specifically what you enjoyed about love making. When you are making love, tell him that you enjoy what he is doing. You are making up for years of negative reinforcement. It will take time to rewire his brain.


kTc said:


> But I know what we're capable of, and it saddens me to think that we're missing out on that. How can I make him understand that? Our potential?


This is not permanent. His thinking patterns have formed based on being rejected. Be patient. Let go of expecting him to initiate. He isn't going to do that for a long time. Right now, he is making himself completely available to you. He is probably gauging what to expect as far as frequency. Show him what you want. He is collecting information. Give him plenty of positive information. How many times have you turned him down? How many times are you willing to initiate to make up for all the turn downs? It's okay. It's going to get better and as you continue to show him that you have changed. There is nothing you can say to make him understand. It is all about your actions and your willingness to reach out to him and overcome the rejection.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

It's Friday, and while my husband's still at work, I'm thinking about sending him a text message like this, "Save some energy for tonight, because I want have you after work!"

What do you think?


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> It's Friday, and while my husband's still at work, I'm thinking about sending him a text message like this, "Save some energy for tonight, because I want have you after work!"
> 
> What do you think?


Funny that...an hour or so ago my wife texted me...

"I know its a couple of hours before you come home, so I hope it's not too mean to tell you that I'm already naked and waiting for my gorgeous husband to come home and ravage me <3"

In a couple of hours, my wife is going to be completely ravaged.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think it's a good approach. Keep it light and playful.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP, I'm a guy. Unfortunately, I cannot relate to what you and your husband went through. My wife and I have had a good to great sex life our entire marriage. We have 3 kids and there are 3 to 5 years between each one. From the beginning, we always knew that no matter how much you needed to sacrifice and work as a team, the one place we cannot sacrifice is quality time with each other. Even if we could not afford a weekly date night back then, we tried to go out at least once a month. Your thread is a great example of how children can ruin a marriage - if you let them. It's not the children's fault, because they don't know any better. 

My only thought for your situation is to not ask for it, don't hint around and don't dress up hoping he'll initiate. I think what you need to do is TAKE! From what I see in your thread, you keep asking him for it. You keep framing your communication to him in the form of a question. Instead of saying "We should do this more often" or "How about we make love all morning", tell him things like "I find you extremely hot and want to fulfill your desires" or "I'm going to drive you wild tonight". If he says "Whatever you want babe", just respond back with something like "You are what I want". It seems like it's going to take repetition and demonstrated proof that you want to fulfill his needs. If you keep doing it, his walls will crumble. Ultimately, for us men we will crumble if our spouses keep throwing themselves at us.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

kTc said:


> It's Friday, and while my husband's still at work, I'm thinking about sending him a text message like this, "Save some energy for tonight, because I want have you after work!"
> 
> What do you think?


This is good, but do not expect enthusiasm. Your post seem to show that you are expecting and enthusiastic response. At this point, that is unlikely to happen, so try to be happy with a "yes" and enjoy him.
Your situation is much better than if he were turning you down regularly. He is willing and that is an excellent foundation to build on.


----------



## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

kTc said:


> It's Friday, and while my husband's still at work, I'm thinking about sending him a text message like this, "Save some energy for tonight, because I want have you after work!"
> 
> What do you think?


Joining this thread late, but I think it is best for now (maybe for up to a year) for you not to initiate in ways that expect him to be very active and energetic. I agree with the people that said it might take him a year or so to get to the point of being enthusiastic again. I advise you just hope for more sweet, gentle sex, with you doing most of the giving for now, and not yet expect him to 'ravage' you, or expect him to be passionate or romantic.

Figure out what he does seem to prefer and respond to, and focus on doing that. Right now, I don't think he is wanting or ready for romantic weekend getaways, to be surprised by you in lingerie, etc.. Take it slower.

My advice is based on my experiences with an LD H, who was LD due to both low testosterone and basic personality. I never rejected him though so my situation is different than yours. But I have a suspicion that your husband's testosterone might be very low now too and his lack of desire might not just be the resentment, although resentment is a clearly a huge part of it.

When I spoke to my H about wanting to have more sex, he reacted defensively and with some anger, and tried to deflect by listing my flaws or things I've done wrong (not relating to sex). Certainly I have those flaws he mentioned, but I didn't believe that was the only reason we weren't having much sex (every 2-3 weeks). He didn't believe his testosterone could be low (T) and said he wouldn't go to the doctor until his regular physical exam in 6 months. Right before his exam, I reminded him to ask to get tested, he did, and it turned out that he had very low T (300 ng/dl). 

He has gone on T shots and today, things are much improved, we have sex every 2-3 days. He is MUCH more into it, and does initiate. 
However, due to his personality, he still doesn't 'take me' or ravage me (as I have asked him to), and he probably never will.

Even if your H has low T also, I wouldn't bring up the possibility of his getting tested for several months while you work on the resentment issues first. I agree with what most people said about being very patient with him.

In the 6 month period I was waiting for my husband to go get his T checked, we still made a lot of progress. He absolutely hated talking about the problem so I tried to minimize that. I think you will drive him crazy if you bring it up as often as you do and imply that you want him to act differently. It will make him feel like he is in the wrong, a bad husband, or that you are trying to control him.

Instead, initiate by doing what he likes and get his body used to having sex more often. That will start improving his drive, desire, trust in you. Start by giving him a long fully-body massages if he likes massages, and don't always initiate sex so that he knows you are doing it for him not yourself. Also, often during the day, just come up and give him a hug, then walk away, clearly not expecting anything in return.

My husband had a negative reaction if I asked for sex using words or asking him to do something or start things, or if I put on lingerie, since he felt it was a demand. What worked is if I just started caressing him with no words (usually in bed), eventually caressing him down below.

Also, my H likes french kissing, kissing his neck and ears, love bites, so I do those things.

Also, I always give my H a BJ as foreplay (not to completion). I asked him to give me guidance on what feels good so now I know what actions/pressure with my tongue and mouth that he really likes. That really helps his arousal and sex is better for him if we start that way. I would not advise doing BJs to completion very often without getting any O or pleasure for yourself.

If your H is masturbating, I think you should ask him to stop doing so and come to you with his needs, and tell him that you will never reject him. If your H has gotten used to the pressure of his hand, he may be desensitized and have a harder time enjoying sex with you.

Spend lots of time telling your H the specific things about him that you respect and admire.

I know it will be hard to be patient, but your H needs to slowly build his desire back up and it really may take 1-2 years. 

My H (even after on T shots) has 'responsive desire', rather than 'spontaneous desire', so is much more likely to respond to my starting up the physical contact. He even (before T) said he 'never thinks about sex at all except when we have already started fooling around'. Now that he is on T shots, he still doesn't initiate the way I'd like, but he is extremely active and energetic once he gets going. So even if I do have to start things up subtly, within a few minutes he is totally into it, really wild and passionate most of the times, and he seems so joyful about it.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

Kari and CynthiaDE, thank you both so much for your comments. I think you both have shared a lot of insight.

My text message from my last post created sex but little enthusiasm again. In fact, I have seen very little change in him since our initial difficult discussions. I'm trying so hard to be patient. I'm trying so hard to quietly take the lead.

How do higher desire partners survive this in the long term? I feel as if this issue consumes me. I'm doing my best to love him every day and to concentrate on his positive qualities.

Despite my efforts, I think about sex _nearly all of the time_. *Every time* he and I are together on the couch, I catch myself hoping that _this time_ he'll reach for me.

Peers here have warned me to be patient and prepare for months or even years of waiting.

How do you all cope with this *on a daily basis*?


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

kTc said:


> Despite my efforts, I think about sex _nearly all of the time_. *Every time* he and I are together on the couch, I catch myself hoping that _this time_ he'll reach for me.


Truth.

This is exactly what runs through my head every day. I am constantly having to keep myself in check, and having to remind myself to keep my hands to myself, and keep my mouth shut.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kTc said:


> Kari and CynthiaDE, thank you both so much for your comments. I think you both have shared a lot of insight.
> 
> My text message from my last post created sex but little enthusiasm again. In fact, I have seen very little change in him since our initial difficult discussions. I'm trying so hard to be patient. I'm trying so hard to quietly take the lead.
> 
> ...


Often times they don't. The marriage may not technically end, but it often doesn't survive either.


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

kTc said:


> Kari and CynthiaDE, thank you both so much for your comments. I think you both have shared a lot of insight.
> 
> My text message from my last post created sex but little enthusiasm again. In fact, I have seen very little change in him since our initial difficult discussions. I'm trying so hard to be patient. I'm trying so hard to quietly take the lead.
> 
> ...


You cope/"survive" by shutting off those emotions and pulling away. You constantly remind yourself that sex is off the table and to keep your hands to yourself. 

My husband refused me sex repeatedly for over a year(we only had sex on his time) and now several months later, I still struggle with initiating for fear of rejection even though he has not rejected me in months now. It's a tough thing to get passed.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

kTc said:


> Despite my efforts, I think about sex _nearly all of the time_. *Every time* he and I are together on the couch, I catch myself hoping that _this time_ he'll reach for me.
> 
> ...
> 
> How do you all cope with this *on a daily basis*?


What typically happens is there are just enough scraps of affection and glimmers of hope that the unhappy HD doesn't quite get to the point of actually doing something drastic.

Things can go on for years like this.


----------



## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> What typically happens is there are just enough scraps of affection and glimmers of hope that the unhappy HD doesn't quite get to the point of actually doing something drastic.
> 
> Things can go on for years like this.


Love is a crazy thing, isn't it? :scratchhead:


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> What typically happens is there are just enough scraps of affection and glimmers of hope that the unhappy HD doesn't quite get to the point of actually doing something drastic.
> 
> Things can go on for years like this.


That's just sad. I know, cause i went through it with my ex.


----------



## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Truth.
> 
> This is exactly what runs through my head every day. I am constantly having to keep myself in check, and having to remind myself to keep my hands to myself, and keep my mouth shut.


This is when the resentments build. The loneliness. 

You're looking at your mate on the couch and every fiber of your being wants to pounce and get connected with your spouse, but then reality snaps you back into place. You remember your partner just doesn't feel that way about you.

So you log back on the TAM.


----------



## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

kTc said:


> Kari and CynthiaDE, thank you both so much for your comments. I think you both have shared a lot of insight.
> 
> My text message from my last post created sex but little enthusiasm again. In fact, I have seen very little change in him since our initial difficult discussions. I'm trying so hard to be patient. I'm trying so hard to quietly take the lead.
> 
> ...


Do not expect him to reach for you in the near future. Perhaps avoid sitting on the couch with him. And don't bring the subject up again for at least a month.

Since your H said he won't reject you, I suggest for the next month don't expect him to initiate at all, and every 4 days or so, you initiate when he is lying in bed, wordlessly, by caressing him intimately. That way, you are at least having sex every 4 days. Masturbate in between if needed.

Then after about a month of doing this, ask him to take turns initiating sex, and divide up days of the week, for example you will initiate anytime between Sunday and Tuesday, and he will initiate anytime between Wednesday and Saturday, unless someone is really ill or something.

After about 6 months of this, where he gets used to you being reliable and having sex twice per week, than I think it is time to ask him to go to the doctor to get his Testosterone checked. I dont think he will greatly improve if his T is low, and I suspect that might be a part of the problem, in addition to his old resentment.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Truth.
> 
> This is exactly what runs through my head every day. I am constantly having to keep myself in check, and having to remind myself to keep my hands to myself, and keep my mouth shut.


It feels like I have to turn off or ignore a part of myself. It's an inner temptation that I fight against nearly constantly.

It's doubly painful, because pop culture preaches that most husbands would do nearly anything to have such a sexually attentive wife and mine resents it. I have to reign that part of me in.


----------



## kTc (Aug 6, 2014)

4x4 said:


> This is when the resentments build. The loneliness.
> 
> You're looking at your mate on the couch and every fiber of your being wants to pounce and get connected with your spouse, but then reality snaps you back into place. You remember your partner just doesn't feel that way about you.
> 
> So you log back on the TAM.


I have the feeling that I'm going to need a fair amount of TAM therapy and venting over the next few months or years. I'm hoping it's months and not years.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kTc said:


> It feels like I have to turn off or ignore a part of myself. It's an inner temptation that I fight against nearly constantly.
> 
> It's doubly painful, because pop culture preaches that most husbands would do nearly anything to have such a sexually attentive wife and mine resents it. I have to reign that part of me in.


Are you sure you didn't hurt him terribly early in your relationship? Perhaps he has closed himself off and it makes him feel more secure. I have added to this thread early on, he might still see the past when he looks at you. So the resentment is as big or greater, and like you said when you look good he's angry.

Perhaps early on it used to pain him when he was rejected over and over again, had the ability to take care of you, but you wouldnt' share your body and your love with him, so he turned it off and it has stayed off.

Perhaps you trying to open him back up to share the sexuality that you both missed, is him viewing a power and leverage play in action. He might see that now that she wants it, I'm just supposed to stop what I'm doing. Now that she wants it I have to give in, what about all those times she rejected me?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kTc said:


> It feels like I have to turn off or ignore a part of myself. It's an inner temptation that I fight against nearly constantly.
> 
> It's doubly painful, because pop culture preaches that most husbands would do nearly anything to have such a sexually attentive wife and mine resents it. I have to reign that part of me in.


In a man it's kind of a voodoo trick. If you rely on that one who is rejecting you, restricting you who does not desire you at all in that way it will shrink your ego.

After being trained to not respond to her as a man should, your genitals will even get less attention from your mind and the flaccid may not be as prominent and the erections weaker.

It's a burning feeling in your soul, where it eats from your pleasure banks. What's left feels dry like the desert.

You want to be loyal, you want to do right, and even if you did want to cheat your mojo and confidence are quite fractured.

It sucks.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

kTc said:


> I have the feeling that I'm going to need a fair amount of TAM therapy and venting over the next few months or years. I'm hoping it's months and not years.


I hope it is short too, but you can handle this. You can refocus your attention and not make a problem the center of your life.
I have a method for refocusing attention that I have used and have shared with many people that is quite effective. I wrote an article on it, if you are interested, it may be of help to you.
How to Refocus Your Thoughts Using 3x5 Cards | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

How goes it kTc?


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

This is an old thread, but it makes me want to weep. Why is there (What often seems to be..) a fatal attraction between HD and LD?


----------



## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> This is an old thread, but it makes me want to weep. Why is there (What often seems to be..) a fatal attraction between HD and LD?


Dunno about the OP, but I fixed my HD/LD situation. It took the duress of separation to do so. Zombie thread.


----------



## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

My husband didn't touch me for years. I finally thought he must be gay. Turns out he was worn out from several affairs and prostitutes. 

I don't always believe in the LD theory. My husband was a cardigan wearing, boring accountant. He was getting plenty of action.


----------

