# If just a kiss means sex, then what does a hug mean?



## Lauren 2 (Aug 11, 2014)

I've been lurking for a long time to gain perspective on a relationship my H had with a co-worker. She was from out of town and they did not see each other often, but it was clear that each of them was quite taken with the other. She was fired after only working there about a year, and the relationship actually grew once she was fired. She was distraught and looked to my H for emotional support. This went on for over 2 1/2 years and ended when I found an email they had exchanged. It was obvious that it was not a typical business relationship and I called him out on it.

I have very little of the correspondence they exchanged, but H admitted that he had an attraction to her that was beyond what it should be. He said that he was only with her in the office and that they met once for dinner after she was fired. He admitted to hugging her.

I also discovered a second relationship with a woman my H met at a conference. Again, there was very little I had to go on, only a brief exchange between them but eventually came to understand that my H and this second OW texted for about a 6 month time period, stopped for about 5 months, then started up again for another 6 months.

My point is this. My H has minimize his involvement with these women, ultimately I think to spare me and himself any more pain. I believe he's truly remorseful and has put them completely behind him. We went through 6 months of MC and H realizes why he conducted himself the way he did. However, the things I know about their relationships are only because I continued to prod him for details and drew conclusions from simple remarks he made. We have been in a good R for almost 2 years.

When I see the comments on here about a kiss meaning sex, I wonder what a "hug" would mean?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Lauren 2 said:


> My H has minimize his involvement with these women, ultimately I think to spare me and himself any more pain.


When you say that he's minimized his involvement w/ them... does that mean that he's voluntarily eliminated any and all contact w/ them?



Lauren 2 said:


> When I see the comments on here about a kiss meaning sex, I wonder what a "hug" would mean?


It probably means that _she_ hugged _him_. More specifically, _his penis_.

With her vagina.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sorry if that last bit came across as harsh. I didn't mean to offend, only to sort of (lightly, hopefully) shock you into the realization that your husband has likely been trickle-truthing you w/ respect to his "involvement" w/ these women.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

He told you it was only a hug because he knows you would not accept that he kissed her or anything else.

First rule of a cheater minimize, minimize, minimize make it sound like it wasn't a big deal and maybe they will buy it.

It only happened once, I didn't enjoy it. it was just oral, only a kiss, only a hug.
Most of the time(always) if the were alone even for ten minutes they had sex, adults have sex, especially adults who are walking outside the lines of their relationship, they don't waste time and rarely miss an opportunity.

More investigation and questioning is needed ask questions then later on ask them again and wait for the differences(lies) to come out they will sooner or later.


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## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

Of course he could be telling the truth, not for people here to call him out.

I had an A with a former co-worker for 3 years. When my wife found out, I spent months and months minimizing and trickle truthing to disguise the awfulness. I told myself the lies and minimisation would spare her pain, in fact it had the opposite effect.

There is a possibility your H has done the same.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

A hug is the least of your problems.

I hug everyone. Am very tactile that way.

In your case, your husband was having emotional affairs, at minimum. That is a lot more than just hugging someone goodbye. 

You saw the messages so only you know what else was said (though I am sure, not all).

He needs to break contact with these women and really commit to not harming your marriage like this again.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My ex-husband claimed that one of his OW only "hugged" him. A couple months later, while monitoring his cell phone, I discovered what really happened. She'd hugged him all right. Well, his penis anyway. Apparently, mostly with her tonsils.

Look, OP, your husband had at least two long-term emotional affairs. With women he had physical access to, and time alone with. The likelihood that either affair or both affairs were not physical is incredibly low. Think about it. Is your husband the non-sexual type, or is he high drive? Would he have courted _you_ for 2.5 years without ever wanting, even expecting, sex? Then why believe he'd have that type of forbearance in the highly-charged atmosphere of an exciting and illicit affair?


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

Rowan said:


> My ex-husband claimed that one of his OW only "hugged" him. A couple months later, while monitoring his cell phone, I discovered what really happened. She'd hugged him all right. Well, his penis anyway. Apparently, mostly with her tonsils.
> 
> Look, OP, your husband had at least two long-term emotional affairs. With women he had physical access to, and time alone with. The likelihood that either affair or both affairs were not physical is incredibly low. Think about it. Is your husband the non-sexual type, or is he high drive? Would he have courted _you_ for 2.5 years without ever wanting, even expecting, sex? Then why believe he'd have that type of forbearance in the highly-charged atmosphere of an exciting and illicit affair?


That's true, a man, especially a married man is not going to court any woman for that long a time without making it worth his while, my guess is a man would know very early on his chance of hitting the jackpot with the OW. I'd say within days, or in some cases, hours. If is someone he already knew, all the preliminary work has already been done by the time the next step occurs.


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## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

Hugs can mean different things... Was it a glad to see you hug or his hands on her ass squeezing her body tight hug?


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## Lauren 2 (Aug 11, 2014)

Hey all

Thanks for responding. I need to clarify some things.

My H and MC both characterized these relationships as EA's. At first my H said they were friendships, but after two MC appointments he changed his tune. Since Dday 2 years ago, H has had NC with both of these women (I'm 95% sure of that) and if he did, he knows it would be the end of our marriage. H is very remorseful and has done a lot to heal our relationship. The biggest thing is that he is a different person than he was during the A's.

As far as the possibility of a PA with either of these women, the second OW lives across country from us and I do not believe that they would have had an opportunity to meet in person again. As to the first OW, yes, he continued to travel to her city for the company even after she was fired (in fact that is when their relationship grew, after she was fired). My gut tells me that both of them were not PA's though, because of the tone of the communications I found with both OW's. I would characterize them as conversations between two people drowning in sugary sweet sticky unicorn vomit, but not as conversations between lovers. 

BUT

When I say H minimized the relationships, I mean that he trickle truthed the extent of the length and frequency of his contact with these OW's. I literally had about 5 emails between H and each OW for relationships that lasted at least 2 1/2 years and 1 1/2 year. So I had to piece information together and drill my H for insight. His excuse has always been that he doesn't remember details. It was during one of these drillings in MC. The MC asked if there had been any physical contact with OW #1. H's response was "we probably hugged". 

H's has always maintained that they were not physical affairs. I think he's telling the truth and I have no way to prove differently. But, given that he clearly TT'd the details of the emotional side of the A's I feel like he probably TT'd his physical interactions as well. When I see on here that admission of a kiss means so much more, I am left to question what really happened. 

I am never really going to know. Am I?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Lauren 2 said:


> I am never really going to know. Am I?


I'm three years into this hell. I was basically kept in the dark for almost a decade. When I finally got some admission, it was a kiss. Then it became a BJ. You answered your own question. You never are going to find out the complete truth. BJ? Sure, which most likely lead to intercourse. I'm also dealing with another girl and an EA. I'm sure it was a full blown EA and PA. Again, I'll never get the complete truth. Cheaters won't admit to everything, only what they feel they have to. They take these secrets to their graves. 

I'll give you some advice... I have wasted most of my life these past three years trying to get the truth. It's caused my family incredible devastation. In all my effort I've maybe squeezed out a few juicy details here or there, mostly being confirmation on exactly what a low life the OW was. I guess in a way it made me feel a tad better about myself. She's pathetic - a serial homewrecker who slept with at least four men (two being brothers) in the same company knowing two of these men were married with little kids. 

Don't waste your time. I've aged ten years in the last three. The biggest challenge will be coming to accept you will never know the complete truth (I'm still not there.) and even if you did you'll always doubt it anyway. You know his true character now, that's the important thing. None of us want to hear we married a cheat and liar. We want to protect our spouses, but the reality is they didn't protect us.

I should have left when I first found out, it's never the same. If you're in a position to divorce, my advice to anyone after this hell is just do it. 

Hugs, it's the worst pain ever. I know.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Lauren 2 said:


> I am never really going to know. Am I?


No, you are never going to know.

Why?

Because your husband is a betrayer and a liar. And his convienent loss of memory is an admission of guilt.

So let us review.

He has betrayed you twice and continues to lie about it all. 

That leads me to think the possibility he will betray you again is probably 100%. Only next time he will hide it better.

I don't mean to be Mr. Gloom & Doom, but those seem to be the cold hard facts.

So, what are you going to do about it all?

Were it me, I'd leave. Just go. Tell him there will be one final session and if he continues with lapses of memory or if you don't think you're getting the whole truth and nothing but the truth, end of marriage right there on the spot. He gets a clean slate and one chance to come clean. If you aren't fully convinced, then just go.

Besides, I guarantee you this betrayer isn't done yet.

I wish you well.


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## DoveEnigma13 (Oct 31, 2013)

waylan said:


> Hugs can mean different things... Was it a glad to see you hug or his hands on her ass squeezing her body tight hug?


Mouths can hug too.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Lauren 2
You will never know for sure. That is OK, there are lots of things you can never know for sure (like whether or not you have cancer that hasn't been detected yet). It is an unfortunate part of life. 

You don't know how physical it was: There are hugs like you give your grandmother, there are intimate hugs, and then there are hugs that are a euphemism for sex.


I would concentrate on the emotional affair. What was he looking for? Was he lonely? Did he need his ego stroked? Was he missing something at home? Does he crave attention? Did he need someone to talk to? Was it a calculated thing, or did he just sort of end up getting close to someone?

If the reasons for what he did don't go away, then he will likely do it again. An EA has a good chance of leading to a physical affair, so if the EAs continue a physical affair is likely whether or not it has already happened .





Lauren 2 said:


> Hey all
> 
> Thanks for responding. I need to clarify some things.
> 
> ...


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

I am never really going to know. Am I?

You could always ask him to take a polygraph...


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