# Made some more progress...but she is still saying divorce



## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

She talked to me the other night..we talked in depth. We cried...we yelled....we insulted....and we hugged...then she read me part of poem that she is writing...first time in 4 years she has let me read any of her poetry. It was amazing to me. Very Deep and painful, a lot of anger and resentment toward me coming from her...but I oddly enjoyed. So I wrote her a letter to comment back... here it is:

_Hey Sexy. How’s your day been? I just wanted to write you real quick. First off I want you to know that I do love you. I love you with all of my heart. I always hoped that you and I would be together for eternity, I never imagined that we would be down this road. Although I’m not sure where this road will lead to, I know that I am still here and I am still fighting for you. I love you so much…and last night as hard as things are for us to talk about, you opened up and expressed part of your feelings and that made me feel amazing. 

For the first time in a long, long while you opened up to me. You spoke with me like we were on the same level. You came to me like an adult. It is something that has been missing for a long time between us. 

You had enough faith and trust left in you to read me the poem that you are writing. It left me speechless, I mean speechless. I had absolutely nothing to say. That meant every thing to me. When we started dating I begged you to let me read your writing and you were hesitant about it. One day you finally let me read some. Your writing is special your words are full of conviction and passion. You speak from your heart and that is when I can truly see YOU. 

So I mainly wanted to thank you. Thank you for trusting me enough to read and talk with me finally. I’ve missed it for so long. I pray, even though you still only see one option, that we can work through this. I know I can’t change you, I know I can’t force you to do anything. I can just ask and accept where it goes from there. Regrets, hatred and anger are born from the unknown and thoughts/questions left unreleased through our words in writing and the things we say.

You and I amazingly enough are coming from the same stand point on a lot of things. How we got to that point differed greatly but a lot of the same views. Now we need to figure out how we are going to take on these things. It doesn’t matter where they lead us, we still need to figure out how to take them on. In order to do that, I think we need to figure out why we feel that way. A couple of your feelings I already know why, but there are others that I don’t. I would like understand why. All I can say is although some things said did hurt. The fact that you said them meant everything to me. 

Secondly I want to address the other issue. I want to first and foremost apologize for making you uncomfortable by me touching you. You are my wife, but that doesn’t mean that if you don’t want to be touched that I should anyways. With that said, I need you to understand how I feel about the matter. I am and always have been a guy. Plain and simple! I enjoy sex with you. Dirty, sneaky, sweaty, fall out of the shower sex, and like you, as humans, have a sexual drive and need. Let’s face it, hand-eye coordination training doesn’t in anyway compare to feeling you, the one person I desire and lust to be after. 4 Months is a LOOOOONG TIME….talking calices here…permanent stretch marks….and a lot of AA Batteries (you know you laughed) However I do respect you. I have since day one when we decided to build us instead of having a pure sexual relationship. That, coupled with our communication, is what made us as strong as we were. I have always respected your boundaries and as long as you have made them clear, as you always had. But I have also had the comfort of knowing you wanted to be around me. The little things that you did (IE watching me skate, talking with me, laying next to me to watch a movie, letting me rub your legs w/o expectations, touching me when you walk by) subsidized for us not being sexual when you didn’t want to. It made me feel needed, wanted, and most of all made me feel that you were attracted me. As little as guys like to admit it, unless they are self absorbed, need that feeling. But that is missing now. You haven’t desired to be around me for awhile. That hurts. That is one of the blocks that have helped resurrect this wall between us. I don’t want to drive you further away because I’m pushing myself on you. But I also don’t want to repeat the last year, or our past mistakes.

Sorry this was so long…just a lot on my mind. I Love you. I love you with all of my heart. If I loose you, which I hope I don’t, there will NEVER be someone like you again. You are by far the most amazing, interesting, diverse, and loving person that I have the pleasure of knowing. I suggestions on what we can do…when your ready or when the time is right I’ll talk to you about them. Don’t quit on me yet. Again it meant a lot that you spoke with me last night. _

Our anniversary is coming up in about a week. It is laying heavy on both of our minds. 
She asked me if I ever thought of just giving up, I responded Yes. I told her that every time she rejects me, or goes out with these guys, or is rude, or tells me she can't do this I feel like giving up. But in my mind I weigh the options and told her that the pain is worth it to me. That the good outways the bad in my mind. 

Her answer was opposite. She said the bad out weighs the good in her mind. I stated that was because she only chooses to remember the bad. 

She also says that she wants privacy. And the last few weeks everything has become hers, hers, hers...she sounds like a 3yr old. 
I told her that we are married, and I do respect her privacy...rather that I have been respecting her privacy, but the reason I started invading it was because of her EA(which she still denies). 

She still won't move back into the bedroom and is now calling the guest room her room. And looks at it as permanent. If that is the case she should move out....either way it kills me.

The only plus thing that I see going on right now is she is talking to me more about our issues...but is still VERY VERY tip toe'ish.


----------



## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't know how long you guys have been together but I went through this same thing in my last relationship but we where together 9 years before all that sleeping in separate rooms, going out with guy "friends" and questioning the meaning of everything.

I don't think that it's specific to old relationships though, because my current Wife and I went through something similar but learning from experience, I put and end to it right away.

My ex wanted to "sew her wild oats" my current flat-out cheated. 
You Wife had an EA and doesn't understand why you would invade her privacy or why she lost her right to a secret life, yeah mine too. Go figure a woman that wants her cake and eat it too.
Don't you know that this is the female definition of independence?

I joke but to keep from crying. 

Unless there are kids involved I suggest you stand your ground and force her to make a choice because you have nothing to loose really. If there are kids involved you can still ask her to make a choice but be aware of what you are gambling.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

rockbottom,
i cried out loud reading you letter. this is the puzzler. how can a dude write this to his girl and not have her sobbing and begging for a new start? i don't understand. never will. y'know, i laid my heart wide open to my wife recently and, although her treatment of me has been a hell of a lot more civil, we're still separated going on 1o weeks. it freaking hurts to see someone else hurt as i do. let me make one suggestion: fight FOR you marriage. don't ever quit.


----------



## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks Voivoid...
It is so hard not to quit.....the rejection hurts more and more every time. I guess to insure my sanity I need to quit questioning the meaning of everything....

the separation issue would be easier if we didn't agree not to see people and she still does...1yr ago I would have said F IT and went out and found some...but I've matured a lot...I do know that it hurts a lot.


----------



## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

carmaenforcer said:


> I don't know how long you guys have been together but I went through this same thing in my last relationship but we where together 9 years before all that sleeping in separate rooms, going out with guy "friends" and questioning the meaning of everything.
> 
> I don't think that it's specific to old relationships though, because my current Wife and I went through something similar but learning from experience, I put and end to it right away.
> 
> ...


We have been together for 8yrs Sept 10....that day keeps getting closer...She also doesn't understand that she had an EA...she doesn't see a wrong to it...another one of the many hurdles we need to get over if, we are to continue in our marriage.


----------



## wanderluster (Sep 4, 2008)

Rockbottom,
this is now the time to let go. You have inevitably heard the old saying "if you love something let it go..." She is behaving as though she is waiting for you to let go. It's not quiting, it's allowing her the respect/room/patience she is asking for. When women begin to invent boundaries in relationships that seem extreme, it is often times as obvious as it seems. She wants to establish some independance from you, which in turn should make you question whether you have allowed her the kind of space she requires to feel happy in the past, and to continue to pursue you with interest. 

This is a classic situation where a man and woman don't know how to balance the distancer & pursuer roles, and learn when to make yourself and your tendencies more absent to eachother from time to time. Learning how to let the situation playout, without manifesting impossibly horrific scenarios, like perpetual sadness, or a blanking out of the heart and without thinking in dramatic movie theme terms like "fighting for her" will gain at the very least the closure you will need to move on. Ultimately, the situation sounds as if you would like to see her love you when she may not, you would like what you would like. It's sometimes hard to hear, that our percieved selfishness seems more like selflessness to us. You would be in your own best interest as far as your standing with your wife, to move out, take some time to discover more about yourself, how you lost control, why you needed control in the first place. I would seperate myself from the situation for a while, and do some self searching, instead of spending so much time and energy avoiding the devil you don't know.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

rockbottom,
i wanna be clear. my view on marriage is that it was ordained by God, i have a huge amount of respect for it. i said "fight for you marriage" NOT "fight for your wife."

i know you love her like no other. or more than you could love another. i don't think the lord is asking you to give up the fight. i think he wants you to find new ways. letting go, as crazy as it sounds, CAN BE fighting for your marriage. i don't know what your heart is telling you right now, but there is some merit to the "judo" style of relationship combat. agree with her, respect her wishes, but keep close. living with her might be the only way you can save it. if that's the case, so be it.

let me ask you this: is an emotional affair the thing keeping you apart? is it your "snoopiness" discovering it that is the wedge between you? i'll tell you what i think. an ea is more common than you might know, especially the way i hear it described. screw it, if it's just an ea, learn to deal with that yourself. if it's your snoopiness, stop it! stay out of her stuff, it is hers afterall.

if it's going out with other dudes, that sucks. but what is she getting emotionally from them that she's not getting from you? provide her with whatever she's not getting from seeing these other guys. they must feed her ego, for lack of a better term. she wants to date, be romanced, can you do that?

fight man, fight.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

hitrockbottom-

I have read all your threads. I struggle with the poetry, not being the romantic type, sorry.

The only hope I see for your marriage is if you firm up and stop being such a doormat. she does not respect you, and what's more, you don't seem to respect yourself. also a huge amount of your identity is tied up with her.


----------



## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

Well Last night...I talked with her again.

I started by saying that I want to move her family out of our living room. We need privacy. Neither one of us have had it since her sister and kids moved down 2yrs ago. I was tired of walking 
around my house and not feeling at home. She agreed. 

I then asked her to move back into the room. She said no. I asked her if it was permanent that she lived in the guest room, or if she ever planned to move back in. She said at this point yes it is permanent.

I told her if that is the case then we need to go file for a divorce this week. I said that I couldn't live in this grey area of letting her act "single" and at the same time have her expect me to be her husband. 

I asked if her moving out was partially a privacy issue w/her. She said yes. It involved my "snooping" and me asking where she went when she went there.
I responded with I acted like that because you turned your back on me. You gave your emotions and heart to another man. You quit wanting to see me, you damned me for the very things you participated in, and you offered me up no excuse. On top of it all you filled our relationship with lies. So yes, you provided the seed of jealousy and my actions coupled with my mind acted as the soil. Thus my snooping. Oddly she agreed that she did that same when she was having those feelings, and both of us were justified in that.

I also stated that I have quit that. I haven't went through her phone. I haven't been in her books, email, or PC. I stated that if I wanted to I could, but I choose not to. Because now, all I can do is let you be you. I am making the first step in forgiveness and rebuilding trust. 

If that leads to a divorce or not I don't know.

I told her I would get the lock for the guest room for her, but I WOULD NOT be locked out of any room in my house. If she felt like she needed to lock me out then she could move out. I won't have that.

We also talked more about us. She needs time still from what I gathered up. I asked her what she needed. She said at this point friendship. I didn't respond. I don't know how to act as a friend outside of our marriage. 

The thing that got me is that she apologized for "Failing me" and being a "failure in our marriage"

As for moving out...at this point not an option. NO MONEY. I don't know what is going on as far as the SEX issue, as mundane as it seems...I am a man and I do need it...but I won't push the issue with her. I did catch her checking me out when I was drying off in the shower this morning, and she did let me come up behind her kiss her neck and graze my hand across her front.
She responded. She embraced my arms and grabbed my hand. Little hope in the friends with benefits area....:smthumbup:


As for my identity, yes part of it was tied up in her. She is the only person I have known for this long. Regardless of whether we are dating or married. We grew up together. So yes There is a lot of her in me and visa Versa. I can't help that. In my mind being from a military lifestyle and my self preservation...I can either work on things with her...or I put her in a here today gone tomorrow Zone.....if I do that I don't know if I can switch back. Thats the only way I stayed sane growing up. (guess thats where therapy would come in though huh.)


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I am liking the sound of the new firmer YOU!
Forget putting a lock on her door in your house. Be firm, Be firm.


----------



## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> I am liking the sound of the new firmer YOU!
> Forget putting a lock on her door in your house. Be firm, Be firm.


The lock is two sided...so I can unlock when I want. It is to be used for the kids barging in. Happened twice this weekend...both times she was undressed.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Well here's a tip. Make an extra copy of the key, because after a few days have gone by, she is going to say "honey, I mislaid my key, can I borrow yours?", and then she will never give it back!

And yes, how come, you not only don't get sex, but you get to have her sister and kids all over your house for two years? That may well be why you don't get any sex. 

If I were in your shoes, I would be throwing the lot of them out! Her, her sister and her sister's kids. If her sister had any sense at all she would be sticking up for you. Jeeeeeeez.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

rockbottom,
you made a difficult decision being strong and IT PAID OFF!!! she's still here and she knows why you were checking up on her....

like ronald reagan would say: "trust, but VERIFY."

she knows now that you're on guard, and i think in this situation, good. you also issued a form of ultimatum, and you got away with it. maybe as you get more comfortable laying the law down, you could hit her with another ultimatum: i see you want to carry on like this...if it leads to adultery (she still IS your wife) then BOOT, we're done. what's the worst that can happen?

i threw down an ultimatum years ago. my wife was all sideways about me and some things i did (i was drinking then, and had no intentions of quitting) and SAID she wanted me out. so i said, ok, i'm tired of this s#!t, if i step out of this door, i'm not coming back. she stopped me, crying, and asked me to marry her. (we weren't at the time. i recall that WAS the issue. i was tired of living in sin, we had a 3 year old daughter at the time and i wanted her to grow up in a family) i wish i still had the guts to throw down an ultimatum, but this time she is so right about the issues she has with me, in fact she doesn't know how right she is. i am a mess due to alcohol. (SOBER 110 DAY THOUGH) just twisted with lack of self esteem. funny how booze works on a person, especially when they used it to prop themselves up.
anyway, i think congrats are in order.


----------



## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

Yeah..I went in light hearted...asked what I wanted to...prodded a little...but when she became defensive instantly, I felt belittled...my old self came out. I realized that eventually, if this track kept straight, then we were divorcing anyways. So I came out with it. Strong and bold. 
Wasn't offering up an Ultimatum Per Say...just an acknowledgment of the situation. If she is saying that 100% she will never move back into the room. Then Yes the marriage is over. Plain and Simple. - We did discuss reasons for that as stated.

another odd note. I asked to lay with her that night...and I did. I reached over for her hand. She took it, we fell asleep together for the first time in months holding each other. 

She also recently called me up and asked how my day was going. Again a first in awhile. I know that I lay in the friend zone still right now, but atleast she knows where I stand on things. 

Now as I have read in previous post I need to work on being my old flirty no expectations self.

IE I sent her a message earlier referencing the 
---*Little hope in the friends with benefits area..*

It stated that I know why you called..you were pondering that benefits package you saw this morning.

She replied back with a smile.



And congrats on the 110 days Sober...I went 4 months to clear my head and to regain myself. Your self esteem drops Drastically when relying on booze. I hear that, it was part of my problem....see first few threads....I had to prove to myself it wasn't a Vice.
I started AA meetings, but quit. I am not nor will I ever be a person of establishment. Having someone elses views pressed on me I don't look highly of. 
That and I saw no reason to give up one Vice "alcohol" only to obtain another "years of AA and that becoming my crutch" I figure it was good to a kick start...but for true healing and self-discovery I needed to be able to control it on my own.


----------



## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

Ok another odd day..

Yesterday the wife called a few times asked how my day was going. We talked. She told me of her plans....etc.

Well Last night she had to pick up a male friend from the airport. Midnight range. She is also sick right now. She picks him up(I have never met him) Takes him to his house. I guess they went inside to chill for a little she ended up falling asleep. With her medication and everything I can understand. I however was never called. I sent her a message at 3am asked if she was good. She replied back at 430am said yeah she just fell asleep over here.(at this point I didn't know she was at this guys house.) 
In my mind I was good because I knew she was safe. She didn't come home though she went back to sleep and called @9am saying that she was headed to her appt. asked if I needed anything before she went on her trip. 

I asked where she was, she didn't hesitate in telling me she slept at this guys house. Said she fell asleep on the couch watching TV.(he is 25, marine, and single, and she has only known him for a few months)

I feel like this is Highly Inappropriate, however you look at it. I called my boy up, he said yeah tell her.

She came by the house before she left for her weekend trip, She was With this guy(no he isn't going on the trip.) I told her that I felt the situation was inappropriate she said she didn't. I asked what would she do if I stayed at another womens house. She said she wouldn't care.

Is this a defense mechanism for her? Is she like this because she still has her mind blocked on the marriage? How do I counter this?

on top of it all I went to introduce my self to this guy. She gets in the truck, doesn't introduce me. He sits in the drivers side sees me come around. Just looks at me. I hit the window. He steps out and says what. I'm like I wanted to introduce myself I am her husband. He shakes my hand and gets right back in the truck....he just had a real bad demeanor.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Please stop being a doormat.


----------



## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

I can't do this anymore. 
Mark Twain - 
I don't feel that I was being a doormat. I poured my all into this marriage. I have been more dedicated to this woman in the last 4months then I have in a Long Long While. 

I have never treated her in this way that she is treating me. I don't deserve to be put through this. I love her. She is the only person that has known me for this long. And now I must move on. 

I must prepare myself for the end. My anniversary is in 4 days. For some reason it makes this that much worse. 

I sacrificed my house, my friends, my way of life to give her everything. Now I have nothing but my love to offer her and that seems not to be enough. 

I will begin to mentally step back. I can't do this anymore and expect to stay sane. Thank all of you on this forum for your input and helping me through this situation. I will update if anything gets better. If not you may see a poem or two more from me but I don't know how much more effort I can put into this. 4 Months of heartache and pain.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

If there is any hope for your marriage at all, IMHO, it can only come from you laying down the law. I would issue an ultimatum and stick to it. And you have to be prepared to to have your ultimatum trumped.

How you allowed her sister and kids to stay I do not know. I am amazed you haven't given the whole lot of them an ultimatum. You have far more power in this situation than you realise. In fact, I would forbid the door lock thing. that's just conceding more ground to your wife. Tell her you have changed your mind. If her sister's kids are the cause of the need for the lock, then tell her to get rid of her sister. You are letting these women run your household in a way where you get absolutly nothing out of it.

A sick marriage with no intimacy can't get better with the in-laws in the house. End of story. Your wife probably enjoys having them as a barrier.


----------



## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

Can you get your soon to be ex wife on here to explain her side? I find it hard to understand this situation fully without hearing both sides, especially in this situation.


----------

