# What does a women mean when she says...



## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

When a women who has had a PA, but has come back to try again, says she knows in her head you are the right one for her, but in her heart she still feels for the OM... What is going on in that skull? What conflict is raging? And where do I fit in to that train of thought? What will break that log jam? Will i ever be able to compete with the feelings for the OM in her heart. Even if her head is telling her I'm the one?

I want the ladies point of view.... I know what my men friends will tell me... But a lady is wired different. I want your insight...from your heart....


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Not a lady. She loves the OM not you. But she knows for practical reasons she needs you to help support her and so on. Not a good message at all.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

That's really depressing....


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

You're gonna drive yourself nuts trying to figure her out. She just showed you all the signs of a classic cake eater

Twice, your situation is, for the want of a better word, pathetic. There is a life beyond your cheating wife. You should let her go before you cause yourself more damage by hanging on to her. There's nothing left there


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Pretty much she is still very emotionally attached to the OM.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Or she could still be in the Fog...


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Or she could still be in the Fog...


Could be, couldn't be, doesn't matter. The Op's situation is going to remain static if he doesn't take concrete action towards extricating himself from this hellhole.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> Could be, couldn't be, doesn't matter. The Op's situation is going to remain static if he doesn't take concrete action towards extricating himself from this hellhole.


Agreed.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

Still emotionally attached...still in a fog... Agree and agreed. She's not done, either way she's not with me in her heart so she's still with him...

Bjorn: concrete action...? Everybody says walk away. Some say run... Most say slam the door in my heart and don't open it again.

This has been and still is the hardest thing for me to do. Pathetic? Yes, it is pathetic. I admit I should have done the 180 a year ago... 

I see her everyday. We run a company together. It's been a daily nightmare...

Guess I know the answer before I asked it... 

Still very depressing...


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Woman here. She loves him but logically you provide something less emotional like money or security. You're like an old favorite pair of gym shoes. You are sturdy and dependable but he is like stilettos which are so damn sexy.

Or maybe she just doesn't want to divorce - too much effort - you know deciding who gets what, having your mail forwarded, having to mow your own lawn, etc. Total buzzkill so she's going to 'try' to make it work while she weighs out the pros and cons of her situation.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

She wants him not you

Sorry dude


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Twice said:


> When a women who has had a PA, but has come back to try again, says she knows in her head you are the right one for her, but in her heart she still feels for the OM... What is going on in that skull? What conflict is raging?


Another woman chiming in here. No "raging" conflict going on inside her skull. She's playing you like a cheap violin. Sure, she likes you enough; she can tolerate you. But you are her choice for logical reasons. If she's all hot to trot, it won't be with you. At least not now. The OM? She may let him go. But that doesn't mean her radar isn't scanning the horizon for a new thrill, should she decide her life needs some excitement.



Twice said:


> .... I know what my men friends will tell me... But a lady is wired different. I want your insight...from your heart....


Yes, in many ways I realize I'm wired differently than a man. But when it comes to manipulating and cake eating? Women can be every bit as lethal as a man. And, men, I do NOT mean that you are more lethal. In fact, when it comes to cheating and cake eating, I think it's a pretty level playing field.

No matter who is the needy one - the man or the woman - the one who has the upper hand is the one calling the shots and screwing with their partner's head.

JMO, but I'd drop someone who fed me this line of b.s. like radioactive waste ...


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

IMO, she's telling you that for practical reasons she knows that she should stay with you, but her heart wants to be with the OM. It doesn't sound to me like a woman who is contrite, apologetic and seriously wanting to make amends and reconcile.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Not a "lady", but:
She wants your MONEY.
But, she wants to be with HIM.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Twice, WHY did she come back?...

Did you bust affair, expose her and the AP , and do a 180 on her?....

Or did she go out, have her little fling and come home and eat a some cake?

Has she gone transparent for you, given you the whole truth, sent him an NC letter and showed true remorse?

Sorry to be so blunt, but she seems to be using you as a safe "plan B", and doesn't mind seeing you twist in the wind.....

Please go to the "coping with infidelity" section and read the steps for beginners.....It is bitter medicine, but your best chance for a healthy recovery...

I hope she is sincere and just in the FOG, but without more detail, no one can give you a truly considered opinion.....

the woodchuck


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Not a woman, but have heard the same story. Opinion: Woman likes how OM makes her feel...the high euphoric feeling stemming from the novelty and the forbidden fruit of the object of affair obsession. Like taking a new drug. Utterly given into selfishness and has fried all her logical circuits regarding what she is giving up...The Fog. Says things to string you along, because she is partially aware that there is no guarantee that affair is going to last...yet wants to stretch out time to make sure...cake eating. You are seeing the ugly side of a love addiction...but it's not love...it is insanity. Time to yank your side of the equation and let her lie in the bed she made.


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

Also I'm male, not female.


Twice said:


> This has been and still is the hardest thing for me to do.
> Pathetic? Yes, it is pathetic. *NO!!* Trusting in faith and hope can never be pathetic... But when love is outright rejected... No more room for faith and hope to continue growth... I admit I should have done the 180 a year ago...
> 
> A daily nightmare...
> ...


You need to prepare your mind to accept what she has done to your relationship. You can only control yourself... 

Does gender change the meaning of her words? Her thoughts are expressed quite clear. I understand the hope you seek in finding a female to tell you that she is just holding on to _*all*_ relationships, including her AP. I apologize you have to go through this, but start looking at getting therapist whom can help you... 
To grow and proceed you may have to go back (BY YOURSELF ALONE) into what you have allowed your history to be, then you can decide what will be your own future. The future starts each day you decide to break away and start defining yourself with a stronger identity. If you know of whom you are to yourself, then nobody can take that away!

Good Luck!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

It means she doesnt love you, even though she realizes that you are what she SHOULD want. Dont hang on this woman.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

You're getting kicked in the nuts metaphorically and then begging her for more.

Stop asking to get kicked in the nuts.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She means her heart belongs to this other guy but her credit cards are linked to you. She doesn't love you, has little sexual interest in you but she'll be happy to consume your wages. She's hoping you will understand that her heart is really into this other guy and you won't be expecting sex.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm sorry twice. I'd think about getting divorce papers served to her ASAP. Your wife needs to be committed to you and only you. If you stay, her finding another man is very likely with this attitude. Your wife is using you. You are her plan b. Don't be that back burner option. Get yourself out of this marriage. 

If this man was willing to take your wife into his home, she'd pack up and leave you in an instant. If I were you, I'd keep it to yourself until she was served. You don't want to keep on getting screwed over either.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> *If this man was willing to take your wife into his home, she'd pack up and leave you in an instant. *


This^^^right there. FACT.She is disrespecting you.

Now in addition to what all the ladies told you , after you rid yourself of this situation, there is something you need to do to ensure that this _never_ happens to you again with future prospective partners.....


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## torani (May 6, 2013)

Just my opinion as a female. I am emotional. Could it be that he was meeting an emotional need of hers? 

Presently my guy isn't meeting my needs emotionally. When another man pays attention to me, it feels good... when another man tells me I am beautiful it feels good. Makes me wish my present partner would do more of certain things for me... I long to have the things I need from him but I am just not getting it from him. 

That being said, I would never cheat on my guy even if he isn't giving me everything I need. Its wrong, and I would never want someone to do that to me.. How hurtful.. 

I would rather we work on our relationship so that I feel fulfilled so that when another man does approach me, I can resist the temptation because I am getting everything I want from whom I am with. 

But your girl has already cheated. Its insensitive for her to tell you that she still has feelings for this OM. She needs to make a firm choice... Get rid of him completely, even in thought and dedicate herself to you completely or she should move on..

It is NOT FAIR for you to have to sit around trying to make it work if she is not 100 percent in your relationship. I would say be firm and let her go until she can make a firm decision. Don't tolerate being seconds... 

You deserve more than that.... Your needs are just as important... their is someone out there who will love, cherish and appreciate you, just the way you are. Don't let her keep you in this position...

how would she feel if the situation were reversed...


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## Porcupine (Apr 11, 2013)

"says she knows in her head you are the right one for her, but in her heart she still feels for the OM... "

As a woman - yes, the right one for security, for companionship, for stability, for all the boring stuff associated to marriage.

And he is the right one for all the passion and excitement and lust and anticipation.

Even if she forgets him, I'm sorry, down the road there will be someone else.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

Torani: thank you for your reply...I am reading it again, and again because it is right on...

Porcupine: so well said... Agree completely. 

CaribMan: what can be done to insure this never happens again?

DsGrazz: your words are like a light bulb going on in the dark... Thanks.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Trenton said:


> I'd need your complete relationship history to be able to give you any actual insight.
> 
> I wonder though, why are you so tolerant?
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I suggest that you read the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. 


The affair is causing your wife's body/brain to produce feel-good chemicals in huge quantities. While this is going on with the body/mind she is not thinking streight. 

Your wife apparenlty knows that the relationship with the OM is a dead end and not good for her. But she likes the way she feels.

You know that crazy, head or heals feeling a person gets in the first 18 months of being "in love". Well that's what she's feeling.

I disagree with others who say that what she means is that she wants your money. That's not what she's saying. IT's all about those feel good brain chemicals.

Right now you are meeting some number of her needs. The OM was (or is) meeting some of her needs. Between the two of you she probably is having more of her emotional needs met than she has ever had met in her life. So the brain chemicals are pour out at levels that are intoxicating. 

What she wants is both you and the OM ... that's called cake eating. She wants you both because it makes her feel fantastic... like a drug.

The only way for this cake-eating thing to stop is for her to stop all contact with the OM. Given some time she will return to a more normal state. Once she does.. she will most likely really dislike the OM.

Humans are chemical engines. If you understand how the human body/mind works with the chemicals we produce, what she is saying is pretty clear.


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## raising5boyz (Nov 8, 2008)

LISTEN TO WHAT ELEGIRL SAID! She is right on.

Years ago I had an affair. After a couple of weeks of the affair I told my husband about it. And even though I brought in out into the open, and I ended it with the other man....I was an emotionaly mess for a long time. I did have feelings for the other man, however they were more of a fantasy then anything, but it took months for me to realize that. I truly thought it was love.

If you love her, and if she is being 100% honest with you and 100% no contact with him, you can get through this. There are some good books our there for the person who did the cheating. It was rather eye opening to me.


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## raising5boyz (Nov 8, 2008)

One more thought on this; The OM and I had actually became friends....along with our spouses, and out kids. I really regretted what I did because my actions destroyed the friendships that had been built. I mourned losing him and the other as a friend.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> What she wants is both you and the OM ... that's called cake eating. She wants you both because it makes her feel fantastic... like a drug.


Elegirl, you are right... In fact one of her comments to me was..." if I could combine the two of you I'd have the perfect man ". 

So, what you and everybody else say that to cure her addiction for the other man, I need to remove myself from her life.... I get that. 

Since we see each other everyday, and the OM lives 6 states away ( and they haven't seen each other in 5 months) it's both a blessing, and a curse... The curse is it makes a true 180 almost impossible...


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Twice said:


> In fact one of her comments to me was..." if I could combine the two of you I'd have the perfect man...


This is a mean thing to say.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

And I bet you wouldn't mind having a harem along with your current wife, too -- as long as all of those gorgeous women paid for all of their own stuff and didn't expect you to support them. 

(Sarcasm)


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Twice said:


> Elegirl, you are right... In fact one of her comments to me was..." if I could combine the two of you I'd have the perfect man ".
> 
> So, what you and everybody else say that to cure her addiction for the other man, I need to remove myself from her life.... I get that.
> 
> Since we see each other everyday, and the OM lives 6 states away ( and they haven't seen each other in 5 months) it's both a blessing, and a curse... The curse is it makes a true 180 almost impossible...


It seems like your goal is to reconcile.

If true, part of your challenge now is to give her the ability to tell you her truth, even when it is painful to you. She did this time, and unfortunately it hurts. But that is actually a good thing, as you now have information to continue to move forward in your life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Twice said:


> Elegirl, you are right... In fact one of her comments to me was..." if I could combine the two of you I'd have the perfect man ".
> 
> So, what you and everybody else say that to cure her addiction for the other man, I need to remove myself from her life.... I get that.
> 
> Since we see each other everyday, and the OM lives 6 states away ( and they haven't seen each other in 5 months) it's both a blessing, and a curse... The curse is it makes a true 180 almost impossible...


Have she ended all contact with the OM? 

No, you do not need to remove yourself from her life for her to get over the addiction. 

Get the book "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs"


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The affair is causing your wife's body/brain to produce feel-good chemicals in huge quantities. While this is going on with the body/mind she is not thinking streight.



Thats little consolation to someone who has to, in the meantime, sit and put up with their spouse banging someone else.

I think he needs to free himself and start getting some of his own feel-good chemicals going on. But it all depends on what he wants ultimately.

But this line of thought can be applied then to all cheating. Calling it an addiction, therefore necessitating the need to stand by them and help them through this addiction. I guess if OP wants to look at it along those lines and "help her", then he's gotta do what he wants to do. But I think sugarcoating this, and making her to seem the victim is going to only serve to cause him more pain in the future. I think she will learn a very valuable lesson......cheat, and have him feeling sorry for her.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dusty4 said:


> But this line of thought can be applied then to all cheating. Calling it an addiction, therefore necessitating the need to stand by them and help them through this addiction. I guess if OP wants to look at it along those lines and "help her", then he's gotta do what he wants to do. But I think sugarcoating this, and making her to seem the victim is going to only serve to cause him more pain in the future. I think she will learn a very valuable lesson......cheat, and have him feeling sorry for her.


I don't think that is what she means. Certainly not to sugar coat an ongoing affair or love her out of it. 

But if the cheating spouse has stopped the affair, as in the case, then it is important to recognize that their thinking can still be altered by the affair and that it may take time to clear her head. So understanding that, he can take some comfort that she may not be thinking these things in 6 months.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't think that is what she means. Certainly not to sugar coat an ongoing affair or love her out of it.
> 
> But if the cheating spouse has stopped the affair, as in the case, then it is important to recognize that their thinking can still be altered by the affair and that it may take time to clear her head. So understanding that, he can take some comfort that she may not be thinking these things in 6 months.


Well I don't really mean that Ele is trying to sugarcoat it(even though I wrote that), but it does seem sort of an excuse.

And we aren't for certain that its stopped, unless I missed Twice saying it most definitely has.

Sure I suppose I can see what you are saying, problem is, the BS shouldn't really have to put up with it in the meantime.
Sure he can back off so she has her time to mourn the loss of her OM, but Twice shouldn't even be put in that position in the first place.
She may be over the OM in 6 months, but I doubt it. But if she is, it still doesn't erase the fact that she wants this perfect man and has let Twice know he aint it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dusty4 said:


> Thats little consolation to someone who has to, in the meantime, sit and put up with their spouse banging someone else.


Why would the OP have to sit and put up with his wife banging someone else? As anyone here even suggested something that nonsensical? I doubt it. He needs to insist that she go to no contact with the OM. He should not tolerate her affair at all.



dusty4 said:


> I think he needs to free himself and start getting some of his own feel-good chemicals going on. But it all depends on what he wants ultimately.


It’s not your choice to decide if the OP should end his marriage or work towards reconciliation. 


dusty4 said:


> But this line of thought can be applied then to all cheating. Calling it an addiction, therefore necessitating the need to stand by them and help them through this addiction. I guess if OP wants to look at it along those lines and "help her", then he's gotta do what he wants to do. But I think sugarcoating this, and making her to seem the victim is going to only serve to cause him more pain in the future. I think she will learn a very valuable lesson......cheat, and have him feeling sorry for her.


Addiction is used loosely when talking about the fog of an affair because people in affairs behave in seeming irrational ways to keep it going.

But for a moment let’s discuss this as though it is a true addiction. Why is there a need to stand by someone who has an addiction? The only person who can help an addict is themselves. They will only deal with their addiction when they chose to, not one moment sooner. Generally loved ones of addicts are best to take a tough love stance towards the addict. What does that mean? Get out of my life until you are off the addiction substance for a period of time and have your life together. Anything less is being codependent.

So either she ends the affair, has no contact with OM ever again, and recommits to the marriage or she has to leave.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dusty4 said:


> Well I don't really mean that Ele is trying to sugarcoat it(even though I wrote that), but it does seem sort of an excuse.
> 
> And we aren't for certain that its stopped, unless I missed Twice saying it most definitely has.
> 
> ...


If the OP wants to work on recovery with his wife, it's a reasonable thing to do. Many marriages recover and do well after infidelity. 

I'm not really sure why the comment about a 'perfect man' is so disturbing. No one person is the perfect man or the perfect woman. No one person meets 100% of their spouses needs. That's a fact.

This is why the book "His Needs, Her Needs" is a good resource. It explains the way needs affect a relationship and how to go about meeting the most important needs. It also points out to the reader that no one can meet all of another person's needs. Thus a person has be know that they have to find ways to protect their marriage from their own unmet needs.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> It’s not your choice to decide if the OP should end his marriage or work towards reconciliation.


Of course. It is impossible for this to be anyone's choice but the OPs choice. No one here is forcing the OP to do anything. We are offering advice and trying to encourage him. Everyone's advice is valuable, as it may help the OP make the right choice (but who knows?). 

I would personally be gone in a flash and let the OM have her. But that is just me. He is going to make his choice eventually, too. Your advice was for him to make a no contact rule, but to me that is already tolerating the affair. Anything short of leaving her is tolerating the affair in my opinion.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

Elegirl...now you hit another topic I am struggling with... 

I have asked, no, insisted she write the OM a letter, which I want to read, and tell him she's done done done. She refuses for several reasons...all are bs, but here they are:

There's nothing left to tell him, we are over and he knows it.
He wont respond anyway.
He's not the issue, we have our problems.

So, I told her until she can put it in writing then I will assume the A is still active. Or at least if he were to show up at her door she would start again...

I wish she could read all the advice here at TAM... So much to learn... For both sides...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Twice said:


> Elegirl...now you hit another topic I am struggling with...
> 
> I have asked, no, insisted she write the OM a letter, which I want to read, and tell him she's done done done. She refuses for several reasons...all are bs, but here they are:
> 
> ...


These little bullsh!t excuses she is giving you are YOUR ANSWER. She isnt willing to do what needs to be done to salvage your relationship. So, its time for you to man up and show her the door. It may lead to remorse on her part and reconciliation, it may not. But at least you would be taking a stand for yourself, instead of sitting there doing nothing while she cheats and abuses you. Do this for yourself.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

I downloaded the book "HIs needs, her needs" tonight and will begin getting serious about doing this right...

( ive made) So many mistakes over the last year... Makes me wonder if doing it wrong is worse than not doing anything.

I know the answer to that... But I still wonder how things would have been if I had followed the advice I got here.

She hasn't ended all contact with the OM.
She hasn't showed remorse.
I haven't done a 180.

We tried mc, but I may have started it too early. She was still having the affair and continued for several months despite our sessions.

Now the OM has disappeared back into his world ( he has some major problems that heist dealing with), and she is left to face me every day ( as well as her family and all our friends)...

This sucks.... Life is very unfair sometimes. I have so much to learn ( even after over 50 years on this planet)....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Twice said:


> Elegirl...now you hit another topic I am struggling with...
> 
> I have asked, no, insisted she write the OM a letter, which I want to read, and tell him she's done done done. She refuses for several reasons...all are bs, but here they are:


The no contact letter is not about her or the OM. At some point she needs to learn that it’s not all about her.

It’s about YOU and YOU MARRIAGE. The WS writes the letter and mails it to show protection and care for the BS. She has to let you read the letter and you need to be with her when it is mailed out.

If you feel that you need the letter written then if she wants you to give her a chance, she has to write it


Twice said:


> There's nothing left to tell him, we are over and he knows it.


It does not matter if there is nothing left to tell him. If she will not do this to make you feel protected and cared for, then she does not care enough for you to help you heal. And it’s her job now to help you heal.

After the letter is written ‘ownership' of the letter passes to the BS to decide whether it is sent or not. It is recommended it is sent.


Twice said:


> He wont respond anyway.


Well isn’t that the reason for the no-contact letter? So that he never contacts her again?

If he does contact her, she has to tell you ASAP. If he contacts her, stalking charges are a reasonable thing to file. 


Twice said:


> He's not the issue, we have our problems.


Yes, you and she share about 50/50 the state of your marriage before she chose to cheat.

However her infidelity is now the cancer in the marriage. It’s a cancer that she has to help heal. What she’s trying to do is to take the focus off her infidelity as though it does not count. Well it counts and she has to own up to that.


Twice said:


> So, I told her until she can put it in writing then I will assume the A is still active. Or at least if he were to show up at her door she would start again...


I agree with this. If she cannot even write a no contact letter to help you feel secure, protected and cared for then you do not have a marriage anymore.


Twice said:


> I wish she could read all the advice here at TAM... So much to learn... For both sides...


This is why I suggest the book “Surviving An Affair” by Dr. Harley. It talks about the no contact letter, why it’s important and a lot of other things. After that the books “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters”. Those three books are a very good map about how to end the affair and how to rebuild yoru marriage. Both of you should read them and do the work the books direct.

Basic requirements of the letter

-the affair was a mistake
-it caused great pain to their spouse and children (if any)
-they no longer wish any contact in any way with the OP
-any violation of the NC request will be immediately reported to, or shown to the BS
-it is final and leaves no room or requirement for the OP to respond
-it is not a goodbye letter, it is a permanent ending
-should be matter of fact, offer no emotion or expression of missing the affair partner
-it should not lament or morn the loss of the affair
-it should be written in such a way that the BS is happy with it.
-after writing 'ownership' passes to the BS to decide whether it is sent or not. It is recommended it is sent.
-make sure you keep a copy of the no-contact letter
-A handwritten letter by the WS, is preferable to a typed, or emailed NCL. Some people may like to send it registered mail to ensure there are no 'bunny boiler' style games of pretending it never arrived.



After the NCL is sent, any attempts at contact by the OM are to be IMMEDIATELY reported to the BS. This includes: Emails, cards, letters, text, phone calls. The aim is for the WS to provide total transparency so as to give the BS a level of security as to the honesty and commitment of the WS. 


At no time should the WS acknowledge or respond to any attempts at contact by the OM

Sample NCL:

OM,

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my husband, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my husband and children. I am going to work hard to be the best wife that he deserves.


Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. My spouse has all the details of our relationship.

Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time in the future. I will tell my husband of any attempt you make to contact me.

Sincerely,

.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Twice said:


> She hasn't ended all contact with the OM.
> She hasn't showed remorse.
> I haven't done a 180.


She has had no consequences for her actions, so this will continue for as long as that is true. Do you really want to be with someone who isnt sorry that they cheated on you??

I think maybe No More Mr Nice guy would be a better read for you than HNHN. Or, Surviving an Affair, also by Dr Harley.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Twice said:


> I downloaded the book "HIs needs, her needs" tonight and will begin getting serious about doing this right...
> 
> ( ive made) So many mistakes over the last year... Makes me wonder if doing it wrong is worse than not doing anything.
> 
> ...


You need to read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harely BEFORE you read "His Needs, Her Needs" (also by Dr. Harley).


"Surviving An Affair" expands on the things we are telling you here.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

Advice Taken... Downloading it now. Gonna be another long night...


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Kick her to the curb. It might knock some sense into her. Also read Married Man Sex Life Primer. It will explain how you got here. You need to "Alpha Up." She perceives OM as alpha/sigma and you as gamma. It's probably not the case, but that's the way a lot of married women see guys who try to seduce them.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I remember your thread before. 

She ran off with the other man up to FIVE STATES AWAY and spent a long time with him...and yet you said she was 'still in business with you.'

Well, I very much doubt that she was minding the register or helping stock shelves from FIVE STATES AWAY, so whatever 'role' she plays in your business and the fact that you are PAYING HER has quite a bit to do with her continued presence.

If she can 'be in business' with you from five states away...she can be in business with you AWAY from the business. Buh bye. Don't come in. We did just fine with you away all those months. We can do it fine without you again. Cut her lose from your work force so you can start to heal. Ditto apartment.

Dry up the dollars, the fancy restaurants that you are trying to 'nice' her back with, the gifts, the free room and board, the romantic walks...see how long she stays then.

(Hint: Not long) Are you enjoying a wife or are you buying a companion because you are afraid of being lonely? The dollar cost is irrelevant. The cost to your self respect is immeasureable and I'm betting you can find a girl with better rates.

From what I remember, she isn't giving you sex anymore...and you still keep her around. She has kept her V off limits to you, her husband...because she's emotionally 'disconnected'. Well...she told you why. Her heart and V are hardwired together.

This is something like four threads you've written with you being in the EXACT. SAME. PLACE!

You are looking for some loophole...some trick...some intrepretation which gives you hope to weather out this 'rough patch'. Sir...this isn't a 'patch' any more then the Sahara is a 'sand trap'. Your situation is THE SAME...so our answers are THE SAME. Asking in a new way won't change anything.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Twice said:


> Now the OM has disappeared back into his world ( he has some major problems that heist dealing with), and she is left to face me every day ( as well as her family and all our friends)...


And, what happens when he deals with his major problems and returns?

I don't have to even put the answer, because you know exactly what your wife will do.

You deserve better than this. You deserve to have someone that is totally committed to you and no one else. If she isn't willing to make even the first steps towards that kind of commitment (like a NC letter), then...well...

It's your decision how you want to live. You've made a 100% commitment to your wife; is only 50% committed to you. Which of you is getting what they deserve?

Demand what you deserve out of life.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Why would the OP have to sit and put up with his wife banging someone else? As anyone here even suggested something that nonsensical? I doubt it. He needs to insist that she go to no contact with the OM. He should not tolerate her affair at all.


Well if your intention was not to put an excuse to her behavior with the whole feel good chemical thing, then I apologize.




> It’s not your choice to decide if the OP should end his marriage or work towards reconciliation.


Uh, ya, which is why I said "But it all depends on what he wants ultimately."

I also said I THINK he need to free himself. I don't recall telling him he has to do what I say or else. Its called an opinion and everyone has them.




> Addiction is used loosely when talking about the fog of an affair because people in affairs behave in seeming irrational ways to keep it going.
> 
> But for a moment let’s discuss this as though it is a true addiction. Why is there a need to stand by someone who has an addiction?


Again, if this isn't what you implying, then my apologies. But usually when someone brings up something as an addiction, the natural result is for someone to stand by them and help them until it becomes obvious that they do not want the help.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I'm not really sure why the comment about a 'perfect man' is so disturbing.


Because part of being the perfect man is the qualities of a man she cheated on her husband with.



> No one person is the perfect man or the perfect woman. No one person meets 100% of their spouses needs. That's a fact.


Thats obvious. But not talking about that. Its the idea that why can't Twice be more like the guy she had sex with.

If a significant other of mine said something like, "well, now if you could only be 2 inches taller, have blue eyes and do the dishes more, you'd be the perfect man", that would be a different story. She tells me that I need some qualities of a man that she cheated on me with, thats very disturbing, as if cheating with the guy wasn't bad enough. Insult to injury.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

JCD: he is five states away...and she flew out of town ( or he came here) every other weekend for nine months.

The last time she saw him was in January..

During the week she is in the office working.

Regarding your comment about "buying a companion". That's not it at all. My IC called it attachment syndrome. She said I need to seperate the want from the need. 

For me the similaritys amoung my threads is that I'm ok on my own and need to just make it "stick"... Tell her no, be unavailable, not be a doormat ( as someone here called me).

I get that and it is taking every fiber of my being to do that.

My personal and professional life are all tangled up. She's involved with me daily. Its almost impossible to get space between or time off from all the personal bull ship.

We earn like crazy so if either one bails out of the company then our kids school and our retirement is in jeopardy.

In short, i have more reasons to try to make it work then I do to just kick her to the curb (another fine suggestion from the TAM crowd)

Ps: after one day the 180 is starting to work. She is going crazy with my new non-engagement , and cold business only attitude. 

Hope I can keep it up... No pun intended.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Let's change the dynamic then, shall we?

I'd much rather view this exercise as a means for you to ground yourself in a way of thinking and living that feeds you ... your sense of self, your confidence and your overall fulfillment with life rather than trying to frame this around;
"What can I do to make my wife want me again?"

Because I will tell you flatly, if that is your current perspective than it won't work. It can't work.

I would advise you to start thinking and behaving in a manner that serves 'You' and does not focus on the concept or prospect of 'Us'.

For those that have done this work and have made the change, and I put myself in that category, your wife's conduct and your tolerance of it and complicity in it ... becomes utterly, and wholly unacceptable. Turn your stomach unacceptable.

And make no mistake, the point of the 180 is to help you separate from and distinguish yourself from a disinterested, disrespectful, or disloyal spouse.

What is your goal? If it's to win back your wife, that's fine, as long as you can accept that is a longshot goal if she isn't ACTIVELY pursuing the same agenda.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Back to your original question - what does she mean..

She means
1. You should stop spending effort and money on her and find a new woman to give those things too.

2. You should be posting OM on cheaterville and seeing what you can do to complicate his life through any legal means possible.

3. You should be doing an accounting of how much she spent on the affair and extracting that from her half.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Twice said:


> When a women who has had a PA, but has come back to try again, says she knows in her head you are the right one for her, but in her heart she still feels for the OM... What is going on in that skull? What conflict is raging? And where do I fit in to that train of thought? What will break that log jam? Will i ever be able to compete with the feelings for the OM in her heart. Even if her head is telling her I'm the one?
> 
> I want the ladies point of view.... I know what my men friends will tell me... But a lady is wired different. I want your insight...from your heart....


She is using you as an emotional crutch, while having all the fun with OM. You're also her back up plan in case her relationship with OM turns out badly.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

Deejo: I have read you post several times, and I am going to read it again... Very powerfully put.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Twice said:


> JCD: he is five states away...and she flew out of town ( or he came here) every other weekend for nine months.
> 
> The last time she saw him was in January..
> 
> ...


Floating Cow Carrier. Or in other words, bullship.

You have two (holds up two fingers) TWO relationships going on here.

You have you and your...'friend'...and I call her that because she isn't having sex with you, she isn't emotionally engaged with you, and the quotes are for the incredibly cruel things she's said to you...that you just lap up in the name of 'honesty'. Using the word 'friend' is stretching it to the limit.

Second, you have you and your business partner who are making mad money. How many people do you work with? Do you need to be married to all of them to be able to work together? Do you need to have romantic lunches with all of them? NO???? Well....why do you need to do these things with HER?

You refuse to look at this like a business deal...how about your best friend. If you best (male) friend told you about this chick treating him like this...and he was still with her, what exactly would you be thinking of him? Sympathy and a hint of disdain. Because he's allowing it. It shows a weakness of character.

Hell, Heinrich Schliemann made and lost a number of fortunes over his life. He dedicated himself to something bigger then himself. So the possible loss of this business...you have the model. You know it works. If SHE decides to push the detonator because you won't rub her feet and tell her she isn't fat, then that is on HER!

You can do the exact same business with a business partner you aren't wanting sex with...but not getting...despite vows and promises. Because my friend, she has no integrity. This isn't a single flaw because she isn't fixing anything despite it being,what, a year?

Now...is she living with you? Is she dining with you? You can solve both of those issue quite handily. Move out. Eat alone. Schedule meetings, inventory, or desperately important paperwork during your normal 'couple time'. Put her in another office room. This really isn't rocket science. It's merely a matter of will power.



> In short, i have more reasons to try to make it work then I do to just kick her to the curb (another fine suggestion from the TAM crowd)


This is an excuse for you to keep trying. But she's made HER desires clear. She wants her paycheck and she wants her womb sanctified and saved for OM, giving you MINIMAL return for your effort and money. Tell me I am wrong.

Now, your first post on THIS thread had an interesting quote: 



> When a women...says she knows in her head you are the right one for her, but in her heart she still feels for the OM...


Do you feel that this woman should be listening to her head or her heart? Do you disdain this woman for not making intelligent choices?

Well, YOUR head is telling you you are a schmuck for letting yourself be treated this way. Your heart is still going pitter pat. How does this inform your future choices?

NOW...if you cannot save the business without staying in the marriage, then stay married. I think that is painful and short sighted, but go ahead. You are 58 years old. You can make and lose a million bucks a dozen times, but all the money in the world is not going to give you another 10 years of life. Why are you wasting so much of it with her? Save your time and resources for someone who is not stringing you along.


Look...I am normally a very sympathetic and warm badger...for a few posts at least. But this is 6 months and four threads and you are just now getting off the mark. Congratulations on your 180. KEEP IT UP. This isn't about SAVING anything. It is about making you emotionally distant enough to ignore the blue birds and pink lights and see the relationship in a realistic light.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

_
This isn't about SAVING anything. It is about making you emotionally distant enough to ignore the blue birds and pink lights and see the relationship in a realistic light.
_

Yes.... Sadly, I agree. See her for who she is...

Let's see; that makes the 435th time I've been told that here on TAM, by my friends, by her friends, by my kids, and my MC... Last weekend the OM's brother even told me that...( That's another story....)

*It's taking a while, but it IS sinking in....*

Thanks JCD.... Thanks TAM... That's why I came here. Too get my head screwed on right.... For the gut check.... To grow a set. Time to got to work, in more ways than one.


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## Ano (Jun 7, 2012)

She wants both of you and shes having trouble deciding which one, but she does realize that you are the safer and better option. 

My husband did this. It was almost a year of his back and forth bullsh*t before he made a final decision. 

It was rough when we got back together the final time, but it was worth it. After all of the mess, I still married him.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Twice said:


> _
> This isn't about SAVING anything. It is about making you emotionally distant enough to ignore the blue birds and pink lights and see the relationship in a realistic light.
> _
> 
> ...


Okay, here is my set of rules for you to live by. Right now, you do not have the will power to do the right thing yourself, but if you just follow my handy dandy rules, you don't need to make any choices yourself and just need to strictly apply them.

WHY should you put your relationship in my paws? Well...my ideas are TOTALLY untested. However they have one selling point: they are not YOUR ideas...which has 5 months of Fail on them. If you could figure it out, you would have. So what do you have to lose?

1) Drop all MC today. Please note the bolded part above: you are PAYING an expert for their advice and you are not listening to them. What are you, the government? She no longer gets to use constant whining about her feelings and endless talks about your relationship as 'proof' she is working on things. It hasn't worked at all for 5 months. Time to save time and money.

2) Pack lunches EVERY day. Eat in your office. That way you change the dynamic: She has to come to YOU for lunch companionship. And you do NOT eat out with her before you hear those three words men love to hear: "It's my treat". If she just suggests without paying, gesture to your bag lunch. Instant excuse.

3) Hire a worker who can learn to do what SHE does. If you need to replace her, have someone handy who can. She is replacable. Let her be nervous. Tell the person it is on a trial basis of 6 months with an option for a permanent position. Unless she invested huge sums in the business, she is an employee. If she HAS, have an attorney work out what her share of the profits would be...as well as how much it would cost to buy her out. Why not arm yourself with information?

4) You are allowed ONE phone call a week to her. That is to establish a date with her. You are ONLY to talk about the date. Nothing else. You can talk ON the date. You are only allowed to date once a week with her. That includes long walks, phone calls, meals, or seeing anything. If it isn't work, it's fun. Period. If ANYTHING conflicts with the night in question (Saturday), no date that week. If SHE cancels...no date that week and no date next week either. Honestly if SHE cancels, you should just dump her.

5) You can't spend more than $20 on your first two dates. She knows you can afford more. You aren't going to wow her with your cash...she's seen that trick. Why waste more of it? After that, a dinner date of $50. Budget.

6) Sex....she may feel insecure enough to want to throw you a bone to 'get things right'. If her livelihood is threatened, she may allow you to ejaculate in her body. First, do NOT accept anything less then "I want to have sex with you." She doesn't get to play the girly games of a hair flip and a wink so she can mentally say she is true to OM if YOU take it. She needs to be direct. Second, condoms every single time until you see an STD screening. Mr. POS was slime enough to go after a married stupid woman. He will screw anything. You like your health, thank you very much. Tell her that in those terms. You have been treating her like her pvssy is gold plated. Trust me, there are 3 BILLION more of them out there. She needs a knock on her desirability. And frankly, I wouldn't until another 4 months go by (9 months cheating, 9 months sexless) but I know you can't do that.

If she pursues you, that is good information. If she doesn't...that is good information too. Not pleasant information, but necessary.


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## Twice (Mar 31, 2013)

JCD said:


> If she pursues you, that is good information. If she doesn't...that is good information too. Not pleasant information, but necessary.


Words to survive by...

1) MC dropped in April... Even she said my WS was nowhere near ready to deal with the next step.

2) No lunches since last month. None planned

3) That's a tough one but I'll make an effort to replace her...or at least have someone who can step in and fill her shoes. Already saw the lawyer about buying her out... Have the war chest built and ready to deploy.

4) Haven't had a personal phone conversation with her since last week... Only business discussions... She tried but I cut her off.

5) Dates... Don't think I'm ready for that... Been there, done that, didn't get the tee shirt.

6) Im sure I can survive without her pvssy for as long as it takes her to say "i want to have sex with you" After all thats what I've been doing up to now... 

I really like your concept of diminished desirability... If she chases me I can decide from there. If she dosent, no difference from what I got now...


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Twice said:


> Words to survive by...
> 
> 1) MC dropped in April... Even she said my WS was nowhere near ready to deal with the next step.
> 
> ...


Hell then you are doing well. I was going to suggest a war chest too. Last I heard you two were thick as thieves, so my comments on dating.

And it sounds like you are NOT living together? That is good.

Sounds like you are on the road to healing.

Boy does that suck! I'm praying for you brother.


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