# Marriage in trouble and I don't know what to do



## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

I love my wife dearly and love my family. I want her to be happy and I want to save our marriage, but it has deteriorated to a low point.

I'll start from the beginning. We were friends for several years, she was with a guy several years and they had broken up and she and I started dating right after. Several weeks into dating, we moved in together and subsequently decided to get married and two weeks later we were married, May 1, 2007. A month later, she was pregnant and 2 months after that we bought a house. Needless to say life progressed quickly, but we were blissfully in love. I absolutely adored her.

We had planned a natural home birth and were very excited about it. She went into labor Feb 22nd and labor progressed throughout the day, but overnight, completely stalled. About 5am next morning, our son's heart rate began to drop and my wife was rushed to the ER. Labor never progressed from there and that afternoon, our son was born via cesarean birth. 

I think this took an emotional toll on me. It was a huge disappointment, probably for us both. I remember feeling terrible about it, wondering if I had not done well encouraging her and feeling awful it went wrong. Never the less, we had a healthy baby boy and 4 days later he was home.

My wife and I were adoring parents and I think emotionally, we poured ourselves into him and not into eachother. My wife took long to recover her libido and no longer would have sex. I think this took a further toll on me, right or wrong. I felt inadequate and maybe I withdrew from her somewhat, but I never stopped loving her, maybe just forgot how to connect with her and satisfy her emotionally. She, I think withdrew from me as well.

In the second half of 2010, she began to get very ill and doctors could not figure out why, they kept incorrectly diagnosing her with bronchitis, but her condition continued to worsen. After the New Year, she began to rapidly lose weight and her health was in rapid decline. Finally, doctors felt her lymph nodes and realized they were enlarged and did a chest xray and discovered a large mass. 2 weeks later she was diagnosed with Hodgkins Lymphoma. Her health still in decline, she was hospitalized in ICU with fluid on her lung and heart and a rapid heartbeat of 140-150 and was there for about 5 days while they stabilized her. 

This was terribly stressful for me. I worried every day for her survival. Soon after she was released from the hospital, she started chemo and her cancer quickly diminished. The chemo lasted more than 6 months and in itself was devastating.

After chemo she went through 5 weeks of radiation, but that was nothing compared to chemo.

I went to every treatment I could with her, I was at the hospital with her as much as possible and I was devoted to her getting healthy again. I probably could have done more work around the house, but I wanted to wait on her nonstop. I also handled the insurance companies and dealt with the medical providers. I had to fight with them at times to get her through the door for treatment. I felt even more inadequate after this and of course our sex lives which already at this point was maybe once a month, was now nonexistent. 2011 was devoted to her health.

In 2012 we never rebounded. As the year progressed we became more and more distant. Hardly talked except for logistical stuff or about our son and hardly did anything together. We had sex but a few times this year and she really did not want to.

I also need to add that I did not do much around the house since our son was born. I had my few chores, trash and lawn mowing and did those, but I never did anything else. I would leave dirty laundry around the house and was generally a slob. She said this is not the issue though.
We would sit on separate sides of the couch, each on our respective laptop and not pay any attention to her. I also gained weight and let myself go and stopped caring for myself. At times she would talk to me and it would go in one side and out the other, but those things were mostly logistical things anyway, what to feed our son, scheduling and stuff like that. She would not talk about her feelings. I would ask her if anything was wrong and she would always say, nothing and if there was, she would tell me. All this time, something was completely wrong.

Around Thanksgiving, I could tell she had reached the point where she had completely withdrawn from our marriage and as Christmas approached, things began to get unbearable between us. I could also tell that she was trying to make herself more and more sexy, posting photos flirty photos on facebook and flirting with guys at a Christmas party we attended together. She had purchased new bras and underwear that were much more sexy than ones she purchased in the past. 

After the Christmas party I said to her, "Our marriage has really hit a rough patch" to which she agreed. She told me she did not feel attracted to me anymore and said she did not know why, but that she was otherwise happy. I did not understand this, asked her if there was anyone else and she said no. She also expressed little interest in trying to improve things. I still could not comprehend this, so I felt completely frustrated with the situation and went for a 2 hour walk. When I came home, we talked some more, she admitted she was sexually frustrated and that her libido was back, but could not feel sexually attracted to me, did not want to have sex with me.

A few days later she told me she wanted to separate and sell our house and get apartments. I did not want this, my intentions to work this out. She said she needs to be separated to know what to do. 

Our house was bought at height of the boom, and currently is appraised for 50,000 less than what we paid for it. We currently owe more than 30,000 than what it is appraised for and 35,000 than what it shows on Zillow. It also needs a lot of work in order to be able to put it on the market and we have had issues with sink holes. There are several foreclosures nearby as well. Bottom line is, our house is not sellable in my opinion and short sale or foreclosure will ruin us both financially. 

I begged her to give me another chance and try to work through this, but she had no interest. Said she needs to separate. We were going to go together to her parents in Virginia for Christmas, but I stayed home so as to give her space and figured her parents would talk to her. I did not feel she was being rational. While gone, I took a deep look at myself and began to exercise, clean the house from top to bottom and try to be a better person, husband and father. I started seeing a counselor who felt I have adult ADHD. 

My wife stayed away through the New Year and one of our mutual friends talked to her while she was away and got her to slow down on wanting to sell the house and give it a little more time and try marriage counseling. Catch was, I could not try to romance her. I could not hug, kiss, touch her or tell her she is beautiful, compliment her or tell her I love her. This was very difficult for me because I wanted to do this more than ever. I was reading things online that said I need to be doing this, but this is opposite from what she wants.

We had our first session a week ago and the counselor said that basically, we had withdrawn emotionally from eachother. We were giving our emotion all to our son and not eachother. We were not spending time together, doing things together, creating memories together and having fun together. We were not connecting emotionally. The improvement things I was doing would not hurt, but the core issue is that we lost our emotional connection and that would need to come back in order to save our marriage.

My wife said basically, she has no intention of working on this. She is willing to do some things with me, but her feelings, for her need to come back naturally, not be forced and she is not going to try to bring them back. Since the session, we went out for dinner at a nice restaurant and played cards one night. The conversation at dinner was awkward at best. I was trying to force it I guess. I said stupid stuff like, I'd like to get to know her again and asked her what her interests are. I asked those awkward questions because I felt like she had a wall in front of her and it was tough to get through. I just wanted to get through. I also feel like I know her pretty well, so it is hard to talk to her. The card game was fun. She laughed a lot, but we really didn't talk much.

I try to smile at her every day and talk to her about her day, but she doesn't really respond to it. I also have been doing a lot of house work and cleaning. I continue to exercise and have lost 25 pounds since December 20th. I was at 215 and now I am down to around 190, sometimes less than that. I would like to get under 180.

Last night I was trying to get her to talk, just talk, connect. We were sitting on the couch, half watching TV and I thought having a nice time. I was sitting towards her, trying to be open. She went to another room and got out a book about separating, called "Mom's House, Dad's House" and casually stated she would like me to read it. Naturally, I took this badly, felt like salt in the wound. I said I was going to bed, but I was too upset to go to bed. I came back down and asked her if she felt differently since counseling and she said she had drifted more towards separation than working through it. This upset me so much. I said basically, fine, lets get it over with, divorce me. I felt like she made up her mind.

I told her, I was going to get my own attorney, that I would never leave the house and we had planned to put our son into Montessori school next year and that this was now out of the question and he would have to go to public school. If we separate, I cannot afford it. This morning, my anger continued. I told her that when our son is with me, she has no say in how I raise him. All of the things I said to her, hurt her feelings, I know she didn't sleep last night. I think I was angry and trying to hurt her. I also felt like her mind is made up and I don't want to be strung along anymore, so get on with it. Also, maybe she needed a dose of reality, that separation and divorce is going to change everything.

I was upstairs getting ready for the day and she came to me and said I hurt her feelings and that she was just trying to communicate with me when she handed me the book. She was just trying to say that is how she feels right now and she wants me to read it. She was not trying to hurt my feelings. She also said she needs to separate in order to know what she wants and has not ruled out reconciling, she just can't do that right now. We both cried. I said that not a single cell in my body wants to separate and it is my intention to save our marriage.

I took the day off and we went to breakfast. She said she is going to see an attorney just for advise and wants to talk to a realtor. I said I am not going to sign anything with a realtor at this time. I will likely see an attorney myself.

I want to save this marriage. I just don't know what to do. I want to connect with her, but how do you connect when you cannot romance or compliment and the person you are trying to connect with does not want to reconnect? I asked her if she would be hurt if I were to see someone else, not that I intend to, but just to get an idea where she is emotionally. She said she is not sure, but it would probably hurt her feelings. She said she still loves me and there is some of her that does not want to separate, but her heart says she needs to separate.

I am so tired of feeling the hurt and stress that goes along with being in limbo. I just don't know what to do. My heart tells me we will work this out, somewhere we will have a breakthrough and reconnect and it will be better than before, but I have no actual indication of this. Everything seems to be going in the opposite direction. More than that, divorce will financially devastate us and put us both in deep debt. 

I am sorry this is so long. Any bit of help I can get is very much appreciated.
Thanks
Rob


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Rob, get the book Divorce Remedy and start working on yourself pronto. Do not pursue her, tell her you love her, try to convince her to work on the marriage or go to MC. Just be friendly and give her the space she craves and she may not bolt. Do not pressure her. 

Your marriage can recover but it will take time. Take care of yourself and your child.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks. I will look for that book tonight. 

We have been to one session of MC so far and have another scheduled next week. I am not sure she considers it MC or just counseling. She wants me to read the book "mom's house, dad's house". I told her I would. I have been trying to give her the space she needs.

I appreciate your advice.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You're right about needing to reconnect in order to recover your relationship, but you need to understand that if she isn't receptive, nothing you do will make any difference. Whether she comes around or not will depend a LOT on whether she thinks she'll find fun and joy with you.

You *can* give her compliments if they're sincere and you aren't expecting a response. Just go be the fun guy she once knew, the one who isn't moping around for her. Take classes, go work out at the gym, maybe even flirt a bit with other women in a lighthearted way. Get your SELF on track if you want your relationship to stand a chance.

As far as your house... 

There are a couple of things a Realtor will tell your wife. You can get a bridge loan that lets you pay off most of your mortgage with a sale, and a new loan for the amount you are left owing. 

You may be able to talk to your bank about a short sale, too, but you should also seek the advice of a tax advisor before agreeing to a short sale. 

In court, a judge could order the house sold and require each of you to pay off half the remaining debt, or could place the entire remaining debt on one of you.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

Right now, nothing I do is working. She said that even me trying to be a better person is making her feel uncomfortable.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

RobD said:


> Right now, nothing I do is working. She said that even me trying to be a better person is making her feel uncomfortable.


Then you're doing it as an attempt to manipulate what SHE does.

Seriously, focus on making a good life for yourself that will be rewarding _even if she leaves._ Do not be concerned with how it affects her. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to let herself be affected by you, so that's under HER control.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

RobD said:


> Right now, nothing I do is working. She said that even me trying to be a better person is making her feel uncomfortable.


Exactly she feels like you expect a "return" from by you being a better husband.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Quietly work on yourself. Say nothing about it. Actions speak louder than words. It will take some time before she believes in any changes. She'll think you are only doing it to win her back, and honestly, at least for now, she is right.

Not mentioned yet: Do not initiate relationship talks! It will only reinforce her present feeling that the marriage is doomed, and she will re-bomb you. If she brings it up you just listen and validate her. Do not try to convince her back! She has made up her mind. (for now)

You can do this but you have to be strong. And patient. Only show a positive attitude. I found Michele's book DR to be one of the best guides for how to navigate from where you are right now.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Also.... tell her that if she really wants space, really wants to separate.... then she should just GO. You don't have to bargain with her....she is free to go. 

The only thing up for discussion is child custody/visitation. You don't have to discuss anything else with her. You can even say, "I don't want to discuss this right now. You want space, go have it." PERIOD.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

You could have written this about me 6 years ago. Nothing you say will matter. I agree with the previous poster. Work on you and give her space. She wants to leave because she is cheating. I'd bet a lot of money on it.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks for the advice everyone. Very good stuff.

I do not believe she is cheating. We discussed this. I am pretty sure she is not cheating. 

Did your situation of 6 years ago workout?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I am very sorry for your pain.

It's time for you to stop acting needy. That is a turn-off. Stop letting her call all of the shots. If you don't want to separate and/or divorce, then tell her no to reading "her" books about separate houses. 

You stay in your home. If she wants out, she goes. She is no longer attracted to you. She may have found someone else. Investigate.

Continue to work on yourself. It may bring back her attraction to you but if it doesn't, you will be in a better place to meet new women someday.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

It doesn't even matter if she is cheating. The point is, she is NOT contributing to the marriage at all. She is leaving... she wants to make you an equal partner to the leaving. You do not have to be a partner to it, you don't have to help her thru it, you don't have to be pleasant, you don't have to grovel.... 

You can't save the marriage by yourself. You can't make her happy...whatever she is missing, she will have to figure out. You can't fix this. You can't even change you to make her stay... it doesn't work that way. 

What YOU have to do.... is pull yourself up by the bootstraps and make sure that YOU are ok. THEN you have to be the sane parent and make sure the kid is ok....and keep it that way. 

Find your support group.... best friend, family, whomever....
See an attorney.... doesn't mean divorce, but you have GOT to know what you are looking at financially and child custody. Knowledge is power. She doesn't get to call all the shots. SHE is the one breaking the deal.... you get to figure out your part!!

You can do this. YOU make it work.... despite whatever she throws at you.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

She sounds either terribly depressed or...I hate to say it because it tends to be too quickly assumed here on TAM many times...she's cheating on you. She wants to separate, she wants you to read a book about separating, she acknowledges she's not attracted to you but doesn't have any interest in trying to regain it, she buys sexy panties and posts flirty things on Facebook. The most incriminating thing, IMO, is her saying she has regained her libido but just doesn't want to have sex with _you_. That doesn't mean she doesn't want to have sex. She does...just not with _you_. I wager she's going outside the marriage to get her needs met, despite the fact you are more than able and willing to provide them.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

She is cheating. Sorry brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

Rob. Unfortunately and fortunately it did not for many many reasons. We have kids together and still have to have some sort of relationship for them but looking back, I see now so many reasons it didn't work. It's truly amazing we made it as long as we did. We just don't view life the same at all.


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## InMySkin (Jan 8, 2013)

SunnyT, you sound like my kind of person. I agree with you 100%. 

Personally, I don't want a man to "stay" with me out of obligation or because he fears what might happen to him financially; I only want him to stay because that is -- in his heart, in his mind -- what he truly WANTS to do. Nor will I ever "beg" a man to stay when he has clearly showed me that has little to no interest in doing so. 

To the original poster, as hurtful as it is to lose the one you love and have built a life with, I believe that the constant rejection by that person is more hurtful and damaging to your spirit and self esteem in the long run. As others have said, continue to work on you...


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

InMySkin said:


> SunnyT, you sound like my kind of person. I agree with you 100%.
> 
> Personally, I don't want a man to "stay" with me out of obligation or because he fears what might happen to him financially; I only want him to stay because that is -- in his heart, in his mind -- what he truly WANTS to do. Nor will I ever "beg" a man to stay when he has clearly showed me that has little to no interest in doing so.
> 
> To the original poster, as hurtful as it is to lose the one you love and have built a life with, I believe that the constant rejection by that person is more hurtful and damaging to your spirit and self esteem in the long run. As others have said, continue to work on you...


OP,

Every once and a while I will read a thread here and it will hurt my soul. This is one of those times. I am not sure I can point to any one reason other than I feel your sincerity and recognize it being ignored. 

You have been given some solid advice by some good people here who know the ropes. Sometimes it can get cynical but very often the cynicism turns out to be the truth. 

As has been stated get an attorney in order to understand your rights and to protect yourself as a father and as a provider. If things do go sideways I would encourage you both to find one attorney that will work in the interests of your family instead of against one another.

The red flags of an affair are there. It could just be her spreading her wings to see what is out there but do some investigation. There are plenty here who will show you how to be entirely thorough.

I am wishing you well and I am hopeful for you both.

Oh and do not read that crap your wife wants you to read. If my wife wanted me to read a book about separation I would burn it.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Don't allow "her" book to become another contention between the two of you by denouncing it out right. Sure, you don't want to split up and hand the kids back and forth, but give it a very quick look so when she brings it up you can validate her present feelings. The last thing you want to do is refuse to read it or throw it back at her. Doing that will NOT help you reach your goal of reconciliation. 

Validating her feelings doesn't mean you have to agree with them.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks for the response. I still don't think a physical affair has occurred st this time not ruled out an emotional one yet. She says no, but spends an awful lot of time on facebook and is no longer friends with me or lists herself as married. 

I'm reading divorce remedy now and it is helping. I have an appointment with an attorney on monday. She is seeing one too.

I want to work it out with her because I love her and our son.the financial situation is secondary. I don't want to stay married if it means being the way it was.

I know she is totally checked out for now. I'm no longer trying to convince her to try, or profess my love for her.
I looked at the book and read some pages paged through the rest, it's not for me at this time.I don't plan to reject it to her.

Just going to do the best for me and my son. 

how do I approach mc? We have an appointment on tuesday. Not sure she considers it mc even.

Thanks again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

Our counselor is going to talk to us separately next week. I think it has affected her outlook. She said she feels she like she should not have to do anything she does not want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I think you should stop talking to her unless it has to do with your son. I admire the very hard work you did when she was sick, it really is not fair, the way she is treating you now. At least she is being honest with you about wanting to end her time with you, my ex dragged it on for years.


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## damiana879 (Aug 26, 2011)

I hate to say it, but it does sound like she is cheating. It's all of the classic signs, but she may be afraid to tell you about it because deep down in her heart, she does have some feeling for you, so it's hard to tell you that she has found someone else to meet the needs that she states she can't have with you. For a lot of people, you can ask all you want, and they will deny to try to "spare" you your feelings, and not hurt you, but if she is absolutely not willing to work, there may be no choice but to go ahead and separate and get it over with. You need to work on you and your son, it's sad and I'm sorry for your pain, believe me, I feel it as well, my husband is kind of pulling the same thing in a way and it does hurt. I have been cheated on a number of times and it just sounds like those are classic signs. Investigate. Good luck.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

Even if she were cheating, nothing I can really do about it. I still do not think she is though, this is not to say it won't happen, but she goes to bed every night between 9-10 and works at home and our 5 year old son is home half of the day. I do not see how she could be logistically cheating at this time. Now, she is going away in March for a activist thing she is involved with. I don't think anything is happening right now.

She is a facebookaholic though. I think she has a lot of emotional issues right now.

I cannot give up on our marriage. It will devastate our son who turns 5 next month. I am afraid what it will do to him. A divorce will be so damaging to the two of us. We will not be able to raise our son the way we intend. I don't see how she thinks it is even possible. A divorce from what I can figure will cost us both $10,000 atleast including taxes, realtor fees and attorney costs. This does not include cost to get two apartments $800, separate utilities. We intended to send our son to Montessori School, will not be possible if we divorce.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

She says she is not and I do trust her. I think she wants to feel sexy though. She is sexy though.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

Even if she does or has or is cheating, I am determined to work through any issue with her to remain married.

I want to say that I truly appreciate all of your help! I really like MR. It seems like the best book I have read/info on my situation read yet. I was following other programs and the situation was worsening. She was getting further away. Since coming on here and posting about our situation and reading this book, I am feeling better.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Rob have you done any investigating on her FB accounts, emails or IMs? Do you have access the her computer or used a key logger on it?


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

I have not. I just don't want to snoop. I don't want the stress of snooping. At this point, I feel there is nothing I can do to convince her and the only thing I can do is be the best I can be and feel happy with myself. If she is going to cheat, she will. I do trust her and feel that she won't unless it was indeed over, but I am not going to investigate her. I am going to be loving towards her and kind and work on myself and whatever happens happens. She knows I want to work it out, work through this, love her. I don't need to convince her of that anymore. I am just going to get back to me and feeling good about being myself. I have been doin g that to an extent, but have tried to convince her to work on the marriage and it has pushed her further away and accomplished the opposite. I don't feel investigating her will do me anygood at this point. She is going to do what she wants and if she does something like cheats on me, then she will have to live with that. Not me.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

And be supportive of my son, who I think is sensing what is going on and has been acting out to an extent. That is the best I can do for now


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does your wife work at a job earning money? It's not clear if she does.


There is a chance she will move out and take your son. It's pretty common for this to happen. You might want to discuss with the attorney what you can do to prevent from removing your son from the family home.

If she wants a separation, then she needs to move out on her own and support herself. That's what being on her own is about.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

:iagree:

Elegirl is right.

Go see an attorney, know your rights and protect your son.

I do not think your wife is cheating Rob.

I do think she has been through a life changing event. The fear of death can shake a person to their very core. 

And the results are rarely positive.

Your wife might have the mentality that it is "me" time. That she almost died and she is going to do what she wants to now.

regardless of how you feel about her or how much you love her.

And you cannot compete with that mentality.

You can honor your vows until the day your divorce is final.

You can respect your marriage and her wishes until the Divorce is final.

You can "Let Her Go". 

And while this is happening you can improve you, be a better man and love your child. 

And you need to do this because I do not think your wife's life will improve with her decisions.


You do not need MC. She needs a good shrink to help her sort out her feelings after going through a life changing event.

I truly feel for you being in a position like this. Do not let it kill your love. Because your son is going to really need you for years to come.

HM64


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

As I am learning myself...and I will paraphrase something Mavash said in one of my threads...it takes two people to fix a broken marriage. One person alone, no matter how desperately he/she tries, cannot fix it. 

Your wife is stringing you along emotionally because she 'doesn't know what she wants'. I believe you have been more patient and supportive of her through eveything than many people would have been. You've done your part. It's time to put the pressure back on her. She needs to figure herself out and stop stringing you along indefinitely. Put a reasonable time limit on this ambivalence. Say, 6 months or whatever you're comfortable with. If she hasn't made a decision by then or isn't at least working hard on herself (IC, antidepressants which I think she really could use) by then, then she has in effect made her decision not to care enough about you to try to work things out.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

that sounds like a good plan. Thanks. It's going to suck financially. I am guessing $10,000 each for us to split up. I'm seeing an attorney on Monday.

I wonder if I should give her only a month.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

HM, I think you're right too.

I don't think I need MC either. I know what could be done to fix our marriage and but she is not receptive to anything from me at this time. It seems every approach I take, she just gets further away. 

I think if she goes through with this, she is going to be in for a huge awakening and I will be gone. It will be too late.

She is only thinking about herself, being incredibly selfish, not even thinking about our son. She is not having foresight to see how devastating this will be for him, how badly financially we will be hurt and not be able to afford sending him to Montessori school. She still thinks we will be able to.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

My wife does work. She works from home though.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Montessori school is the least of your problems.

And this is the worst time to sell a home.

But no matter what you need to see a lawyer and plan for the future.

Because if she is leaving you cannot stop her.

And make the best decisions for you and your boy......

Like I said your wife is only concerned for herself right now.

Focus on you.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Rob - if you do plan to divorce, see if she will agree to mediation. It is far cheaper than divorce lawyers.

She may be a "walk-away-wife." Read up on it.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

RobD said:


> She says she is not and I do trust her. I think she wants to feel sexy though. She is sexy though.


I also think she has escaped into Facebook. She may be having an EA with another man via chats, etc. She won't admit it. I am guilty of that (not FB but another forum) when I "checked" out of my marriage. It is very intoxicating but it is all fantasy. 

Now looking back, it was a huge mistake. I wish my husband would have snooped & knocked me back into reality. There were major problems in the marriage (abuse) & escaping into the cyber world just added to the problems.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

She has said that Facebook is an escape to her. She clearly has escaped into it. I do think something is going on like an EA. The other day I heard her taking photos at 8 in the morning. She took like 5 photos with her cell phone in another room. 

I sent her a text saying "Iknow what's going on".. probably a mistake, but I do feel like I want to know the truth. We did talk. She said nothing is going on but that she has connections with several people on facebook, but nothing is going to come of it. She has her cell phone password protected and she logs out of facebook when she is away from her computer, so I suspect she knows I did a little snooping. I don't want to snoop though. IT does not seem to benefit me. I can tell what is going on even without snooping. Snooping probably just makes it worse.

I am pretty much doing the last resort technique and so far nothing has changed, but it has only been less than a week.

We talked yesterday and she said she is conflicted on what she wants to do. So it seems she has not totally shut the door on working this out, but with any pressure I place on her, she gets closer to doing just that. So I have backed off tremendously. The text I sent was a mistake and resulted in the conversation we had, but since then she stopped wearing her ring. 

It sucks being in limbo land. 

I met with an attorney today. 

I thought about, or have been thinking about how much time I should give this before I decide to act. I can't live like this for long without seeing some progress. I wondered if I file for divorce if that is a good idea and how much time I should allow this to go before making a decision. I know patience is a virtue in this situation, but I don't want to play the part of a doormat or be strung along either. 

I sometimes feel a strong stance might be in order.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

I still feel like if I can be patient for a little while longer, back off with trying to convince her to remain married to me and continue to focus on improving myself and being a devoted father, she will come around to the idea giving us another shot. I just wonder how long I should give it. If I give it that time frame and nothing improves or she shows no interest is making an attempt to fix our marriage and file for divorce, would that be a wake up call for her or would she just be likely to sign it and we would be divorced.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

I also should add about the EA thing... in March she is going to a conference in DC and she will be with the people who she is spending all of her time with online. I don't know if anything inappropriate is going on, but she is being highly secretive and I think the early morning photos thing was very odd and suspicious. 

She considers herself separated from me and does not feel like she has to answer to me or explain this. She was upset about my text on the subject, felt it was out of line for our situation. Said, if we want to reside in the same house, I can't do stuff like sending her texts like that. She said the talk was fine, but the text made her angry.

I am trying to be patient, but starting to feel like I am getting to the end of my rope. 

It's been a month now that we have been separate and it has only been getting worse. I have been improving and working on myself since then, but only recently have I backed off her. Before that point I had been trying to reason with her and convince her to give our marriage another shot. 

Most of the time I felt emotionally like a chicken with its head cutoff. Not sure what to do. Now, with the exception of yesterday's text, I have been fairly consistent for a 6 day period.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

RobD



> The text I sent was a mistake and resulted in the conversation we had, but since then she stopped wearing her ring.


She is playing you. You should keylog the PC to verify what she is saying to her "friends" on FB.

If you are not willing to do that file for D.

Because that is where your marriage is heading my friend.

Get tough. Get smart.

And act!

HM64


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

I think if I investigate her like that, it will only make her run faster. I know what she is doing by her actions, she clearly has something to hide. It's obvious. Investigating would only confirm. 

How do you do a keylog anyway? Can someone find out you did one? 

Just curious.

Do you not think this can be saved? I still have hope it will. I still feel I need to exercise a bit of patience for now. 

She has gotten some advice that is in saving the marriage's favor and seems to be considering it, but needs time. I think if I file D now, she would sign, but if I give her time and back off some, give her space, she might come to the realization that she needs to do what is best for Liam and that is not necessarily staying in a marriage that is unhappy for her, but it does mean, imo knowing you gave it every last shot. I read so many stories where people split and the one who initiated the split is the least happy. 

I will know if we do split, I did everything I could to work this out. I will split in peace. When my son asks me why we split, I will be able to tell him in confidence that I did what I could to preserve the marriage and keep our family together. I also feel that I will be able to able to recover quickly from this. 

I am exercising, going out, meeting new people, making new friends. Getting hit on and flirted with at bars. I am doing open mic nights and enjoying life, creating my own life, which will continue with or with out her. This started before joining this board, but with joining the board, I taken the advice to back off and stop pursuing her or trying to reason with her. I am very comfortable in my own skin right now, probably more so than I have been in 2 years. I have much less stress and feel overly fairly content. I am not pleased about this situation, but my selfesteem is not suffering at this point. I will give this some more time, but not wait forever. 

I am fully prepared to let her go at this point. I just need to know that I exercised some patience first.

As always, I am truly grateful for everyone's support and help during this time. You have helped me tremendously.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Gah!

Another betrayed husband not wanting to accept the evidence.

On the other hand, sexy underwear is commonly used as a pot-holder or gardening wear. And the secret phone/internet use could be a big surprise party coming for the husband. The photos are generally a sign of a job application, but only if they are posing in the sexy underwear.

Getting in better shape - making her uncomfortable? That just exudes "invalidation". Once someone gets in that mood, there isn't anything you can do in their eyes. They have negative things to say no matter what you do.

The trauma of the health issues - that can be a hard thing on a marriage for sure. I'm very slowly recovering from a two-year trauma so far and I have such gratitude for my wife pulling all this weight. I think I'll hold off boffing her little sister for a while longer. (kidding!)

The exposure of the affair(s) - I'm ambivalent about this. She seems to have checked out of the marriage completely as opposed to being a cake-eater who wants to both stay in the marriage and screw around. Either way though just getting divorced in the least costly manner seems to be the right path ahead. Filing is what starts to shake a cake-eater out of their fog, and it's the step to healing if you need to go on without her in any case.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

I hear you but I am not there yet.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Rob, Don't allow calls for snooping to allow you to get off course. If you are following the advice in DR you know it is not recommended.

Like yours, my wife is also in a MLC. She told me she wanted a D last March. I backed off, removed all pressure to make her stay or work on the M. 

Guess what happened? 10 months later she is still in our home, and still not in an A. Had I pressured her or snooped it up, she'd probably be long gone. As it is now, I feel our M still has a chance. 

You are correct; if she's bent on having an A you can't stop her. You may be able to push her to one quicker though! Any time you spend following her around is wasted time you could have put to better use. 

You are also correct that filing for D now will likely get you D. Michele calls that the _After the Last Resort technique_, only to do once you have given up. 

Stay on course. Take the focus off her and put it on you and your son. Work on bettering yourself and your life.



RobD said:


> I will know if we do split, I did everything I could to work this out. I will split in peace. When my son asks me why we split, I will be able to tell him in confidence that I did what I could to preserve the marriage and keep our family together. I also feel that I will be able to able to recover quickly from this.
> 
> I am exercising, going out, meeting new people, making new friends. Getting hit on and flirted with at bars. I am doing open mic nights and enjoying life, creating my own life, which will continue with or with out her. This started before joining this board, but with joining the board, I taken the advice to back off and stop pursuing her or trying to reason with her. I am very comfortable in my own skin right now, probably more so than I have been in 2 years. I have much less stress and feel overly fairly content. I am not pleased about this situation, but my selfesteem is not suffering at this point. I will give this some more time, but not wait forever.
> 
> I am fully prepared to let her go at this point. I just need to know that I exercised some patience first.


^^^This! You are doing well Rob. Keep it up.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Buying sexier underwear that is clearly not meant for your benefit
Outright flirting with other men at a Christmas party both of you attended together
Secretive communications on FB
Snapping photos at odd hours of the day

Tally it up and your wife is at a minimum in an emotional affair with one (or more) guys. Since she's going to a conference where these FB friends will be attending, my guess is that if she hasn't physically cheated already, she will at the conference. From what you write, snooping is taboo to you and you seem resigned to the fact that your wife may or will cheat on you. Your reaction appears to be to accept this, try to improve yourself and hopefully she will come back because she sees a better you. Also, you are trying to "nice" your way back into her heart. 

If all of this was happening to me. I would tell the wife that "I no longer wish to be with you anymore. Everything you have done recently (the list above plus the emotional abandonment, distance, secretive nature, etc) has caused me to fall out of love with you. I am done with you." 

I would also state that you know that she is cheating on you emotionally with someone else at a minimum and that you suspect that she has physically cheated on you. If she protests, provide the list above as glaring beacons telling you that this is true. I would let her know that you can no longer trust her nor respect her, and that you choose divorce.

This is how I would react. Take it for what it's worth. Good luck.


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## Shoshannah (Aug 29, 2012)

You are already implementing parts of the 180. Getting in shape, cleaning house and changing habits are a good start. Implement the 180 the rest of the way. Take care of ourself and your son. It will make you feel better, give our wife the "space" she craves and maybe she will fall in love with you again. Even if she doesn't, you will feel better.


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## Ellen Steve (Jan 23, 2013)

When a marriage hits bottom and there are children involved generally one partner picks it up and tries to put it together. This often works, but when your partner’s mind is made up there is nothing you can do. Keep working on yourself. Losing weight is great and taking classes to improve your mind is awesome. Separating is not always the answer. If you are apart, both of you may find that you like being apart. Start living your life as if you were already divorced. Take responsibility for your son and be the best dad you can be. Find time to court our wife. Talk to her as if she were someone you want to get to know. Simple and affectionate gestures can also help. If you find that nothing is working, an ultimatum might be the answer. Discuss this option with your attorney. While you work on yourself, make sure you son is in the loop, and above all don’t make him feel as if he is the problem. Marriage Advice For Women


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

RobD said:


> I hear you but I am not there yet.


Lets us know when you get there. When you do, it could be a game changer in how you fight this thing.

As you move forward you will see that what you didn't in the past hasn't worked and why, and the new steps you take may save this thing. But then again there are deal breakers for all of us.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

At least you have until March, cuz when she goes to that conference it just may seal you and your sons fate.

Your son is counting on you for protection, and for "some reason" I have a feeling your sons mother isn't thinking like a parent....and more so after the conference in March. After that you sons mother will be influenced by others...in real life...and when that happen what effects your sons mother effects your son and who your son is going to be around.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sure your wife is going to do what she is going to do, but when it effects your son I would imagine you would make damb sure what ever this boys mother is getting involved with is looked into!!!!!


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> She sounds either terribly depressed or...I hate to say it because it tends to be too quickly assumed here on TAM many times...she's cheating on you. She wants to separate, she wants you to read a book about separating, she acknowledges she's not attracted to you but doesn't have any interest in trying to regain it, she buys sexy panties and posts flirty things on Facebook. The most incriminating thing, IMO, is her saying she has regained her libido but just doesn't want to have sex with _you_. That doesn't mean she doesn't want to have sex. She does...just not with _you_. I wager she's going outside the marriage to get her needs met, despite the fact you are more than able and willing to provide them.


After spending way too much time on here, reading thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread the same red flags invariably point to the same cause. An OM.

Even myself, after being here on TAM now, there have been at least one, possibly two, instances in the distant past where I am almost certain, in hindsight, my wife either had a short term affair, or tried her best to do so but wasn't attractive enough to get the man she wanted. Massive red flags to those experienced in infidelity, yet to the average guy with no clue, you just feel a bit uncomfortable, sorta know something is off, but don't know how to say anything, and if you raise it you are shot down as being "psycho" or "insecure".

And to me, it seems pretty obvious she has found a new romantic interest, and has let OP go...


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

update...

So it's been a while since I updated. 

We had a few counseling sessions, set some boundaries and discussed doing things to see if we could reconnect. During that time my wife continued to go further and further away. I have already said I suspected an EA, well, since confirmed. I found out who the guy was and confronted her. She admitted. 

She has since filed for divorce, service pending. I should receive papers any day. Really sucks. I still want to save this marriage, but realize there is nothing I can do to save this marriage, any effort will have to come from her.

I probably should not have confronted her about the other guy. It is an email/FB/phone thing, the guy lives in CA and it is unlikely it will ever become anything. I just accelerated the divorce by confronting her. Maybe that was a good thing because it was headed in that direction anyway. Nothing was bringing us closer. She did not intend to even try. I think mc was just a formality to her. 

I am now doing what I can to allow the divorce to proceed. IF anything, working together might bring us closer, if not, I can start a new life without putting it on hold. I live in PA, there is a 90 day cooling off period before it can be finalized.

I've been pretty upset. We're still in the same house. Neither of us have any where to go and can't afford to get our own place. I wish we could. My attorney advises me not to move out though anyway. 

We're going to have to short sale our house, but the bank will work with us and it appears they reinstated the tax forgiveness on the unpaid portion of the debt. 

I got to work on being the best dad I can be. Last few days have been hard. I have been trying to figure out what to do, what to be and how to move forward. I even signed up for a dating website, but that does not help, just feels fake. I still love my wife. I still want to be with my wife. 

I think that she is unwilling to give any effort towards our marriage because of this other guy. She said that she feels she will not be able to reconnect, but how could she if she is connecting with someone else, someone who she cannot reasonable be with. I feel like at some point, she is going to have a huge awakening of the caliber mistake she is making. 

I know that being away from our son is going to be a huge struggle for her, even giving up control of how we raise our son together. She will not have control over that. I just wonder how she has considered that.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

RobD

You did the right thing. You confronted her.

Now you know some of the truth. And by her filing shows she has no desire to be married, to reconcile or work on anything.

And your wife is not considering you or your son, only herself.

Sad but true.

Focus on you. Focus on your boy.

You can only control yourself. 

And do not bother dating until you get the mess at home finalized.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

I know and really don't want to date, just don't want to feel the hurt associated with what's going on. She really is a good mother and loves our son to death which is what is most shocking about this situation. She claims that she held on as long as she did for him, but could no longer live a lie. 

I don't know, she never said that things were as bad as they were until it was too late. Then she didn't want to do anything to try to work it out. 

I have to move on now. There is not a single thing I can do to make her change her mind. It's just hard. I am hurt very deeply by this. Our son has no idea, but he too will be very hurt. I hope the pain for him will be minimized, but I am worried.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Rob

I know a man whose wife went through chemo. She also had a double masectomy.

A truly life altering experience.

When she came home from the hospital she handed her husband divorce papers.

No counseling. No discussion. Just BAM!

He could not win. Only lose. It was the only choice he was given.

He is slowly getting his life back.

"Let Her Go!"

It is not what you want. It will not be good. But when one is left with no choice you go in the only direction you can.

Forward.

And make the best of it.

HM64


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

I know. That is pretty much my situation.


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## brokin4hymn (Feb 22, 2013)

THE instruction manual tells if she they want to leave, let them, or if they get literally sexual with another in any way leave them. If you don't flow the manual, expect tremendous torment and sorrow!


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

I don't care, cancer or no cancer. She's selfish. She doesn't have a monopoly on death. We all die.

She should realize that the person who loved her the most, supported her through her sickness is YOU. But she's an idiot and making a big mistake. Move on with your life. Trying to convince her of this is impossible and will cause you more torment. You did your best and should be proud of yourself. Think about healing yourself, protecting your son and then one day finding a good, happy, stable woman. Good luck.


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## RobD (Jan 15, 2013)

Hi Everyone. Thanks for helping me through a troubling time. I am divorced now for several months. I spent the time since my last post healing and I am feeling normal again and even feel the divorce was the right thing. I know I gave it my best shot. I have moved on. I even started dating again. Taking things slow. Had a great summer with my son.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I am glad you are doing well Rob.

How is your boy and how is the coparenting with your Ex?

HM


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hi Rob. 

Glad to hear you're healing and your life is on a better path. 

Best wishes for you and your son.


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