# Porn addiction without ED?



## dragonfli

I think my husband may have a porn addiction. We have been together 12 yrs and he has always looked at porn and masturbated to it. I didn't ever have an issue as I thought it was pretty normal for guys to do. I would even watch it with him occasionally. I didn't think that (up until a year ago) that it might be a problem.
I told him about a year ago that I thought he might have a problem as he started to spend ALOT of time in the bathroom and he stopped initiating sex, but he has never had an issues with ED.

Because I raised the issue, he has over the last year quit looking at it a couple of times, even for as long as 2 months, but he always starts looking again. 

I think he looks at it every day now again and I am anxious that it will take over and destroy our marriage. Either by him looking at too much or me making a big deal about what may not even be a real problem. I am not even really sure what my biggest issue is with the porn. It makes it very difficult to try to talk to him and tell him that it bothers me when I don't even know what it is that BOTHERS me about it. 

He does look at VERY hardcore porn, I don't know if the type of porn matters. 
He says he only masturbates about 50% of the time and I believe him because he is spending the most time looking while on work coffee breaks and while at home when I am here. He doesn't have really any alone time, except driving to and from work.

Every time(since bringing up my issues) I find out that he is looking again and I try to talk to him about it he is embarrassed. He tells me that it MIGHT have been a problem befor (looking too much, looking at it to avoid dealing with problems, and just being bored and killing time)... but its different now and he says if its becoming too frequent or he can't go a couple of days without looking, that he will scale back.

We have a pretty good sex life, we are both fairly high drive but when he is tired from work (some days he works 12-16 hour shifts) he says he too tired to have sex so he either just goes into the bathroom to look at porn or masturbates. This really bothers me, not so much the masturbating part...I don't even know, I just feel left out!

What is a normal amount of porn for a guy to look at and how does one know if its becoming a problem? And how do I figure out why the porn makes me so anxious? Maybe "*I*" am the one with the porn problem.


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## richie33

If it bothers you its a problem. If its a addiction....only he can truly answer that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FemBot

It sounds to me like you have every right to be concerned. It's becoming a third wheel in your relationship. I can guarantee you he's not just looking and not masturbating. It makes no sense. Are there really people who watch porn as a leisurely past time?

I would be ticked if my H passed me over to masturbate to porn. You need that intimacy from him. It's one thing to use it when you're not getting any but quite another when you are replacing sex with your W with porn.


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## dragonfli

After reading Jen53's post about putting parental controls on the computer I realize that I may be in a similar situation. I think he DOES have a problem with porn and MY problem is that I am codependant and trying to control it. I will be ordering "Codendancy for Dummies" anyone else have any book suggestions to help me work on me?


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## FemBot

Codependant no more - Melody Beattie

Codependent No More - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## sparkyjim

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dragonfli said:



I thought he might have a problem as he started to spend ALOT of time in the bathroom and he stopped initiating sex, but he has never had any issues with ED.

I am not even really sure what my biggest issue is with the porn. It makes it very difficult to try to talk to him and tell him that it bothers me when I don't even know what it is that BOTHERS me about it. 

I just feel left out!

And how do I figure out why the porn makes me so anxious?

Click to expand...

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dragonfli said:


> It doesn't take much reading to see why you are upset with your man's use of porn and to also see that he does have a problem.
> 
> Understand this... the ED will come. Right now he is young but as time goes on it will come...and who is to say that not initiating is not a form of ED...?
> 
> Codependency... you are in a relationship with someone... If your partner wakes up with a headache it is going to affect you that day in some way. Codependents choose people who need fixing. If that is you then you need to seek help. But if you chose someone you thought was good for you and their subsequent choices and failures are affecting you then I don't think that codependency is really the issue for you.
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> dragonfli said:
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> "He does look at VERY hardcore porn, I don't know if the type of porn matters.
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> he is spending the most time looking while on work coffee breaks.
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> Every time(since bringing up my issues) I find out that he is looking again and I try to talk to him about it he is embarrassed. He tells me that it MIGHT have been a problem befor (looking too much, looking at it to avoid dealing with problems, and just being bored and killing time)... but its different now and he says if its becoming too frequent or he can't go a couple of days without looking, that he will scale back."
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> I think if he is looking at coffee breaks then he is on the edge - if not in the grips - of a real problem.
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> He says it's different... I have heard that one a lot...
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> Yes - what he looks at does matter. It will affect how he looks at you and how he behaves...
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> dragonfli said:
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> "What is a normal amount of porn for a guy to look at and how does one know if its becoming a problem?"
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> dragonfli said:
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> This is a diversion from the issue really. The normal amount is actually - not that much. That is what is normal. Don't measure by what has occurred with men in the last few years. This phase of porn availability is not "normal."
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> dragonfli said:
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> Maybe "I" am the one with the porn problem.
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> dragonfli said:
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> Women really need to stop saying this. You are doing yourselves all a very big disservice...
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## FoolMeOnce

I could have written you original post almost word for word. A couple of books I found helpful:

For you: 

Mending a Shattered Heart: A Guide for Partners of Sex Addiction, by Stefanie Carnes, PhD

For him: 

Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction, by Patrick Carnes, PhD

The inside covers of both will give suggestions for further reading. The back of the books will give resources for recovery for you both.

Sexual addiction is best addressed as soon as possible, as it is a progressive disease. It usually is only a matter of time until what is on the screen will not be enough, and one will progress to chat rooms and massage parlors and then prostitutes, if it is in fact addiction, which it sounds like it very well could be.

It is very important to educate yourself. Read everything you can get your hands on. You have an advantage since you already have open lines of communication on the topic.


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## eyuop

Open communication is the key. Since he knows you know about it, have a chat with him about what you love about him (and your sex life with him) and also how it could improve (for both of you). You don't need to approach porn as "his problem".

I know another poster said that it matters what kind of porn. I would agree if it is violent, illegal or very abusive type porn -- or he only watches gay porn (might be an indicator...). But hardcore -- well, lets just say there is a zillion kinds and I don't think it really matters.

I've viewed porn for almost 30 years. No ED (not even close!). I'm in the process of recovering from viewing it (I don't want it to be a part of my life), and have made very good progress.

I would suggest marriage counseling, specifically counseling for sexual addictions. Counselors are all about getting couples to talk things through and move toward a healthier relationship.

Porn is a drug for a guy (and some women, too). It is addicting. Just watching (and not masturbating) ups the adrenaline, endorphin and testosterone levels (temporarily). 

Anyway, I hope he can see how it affects your sex life with him. My wife is LD (in comparison to me), and my porn viewing never affected our sex life. She always got more sex than she wanted, even though I was supplementing my drive heavily with porn viewing and masturbation. Now that I'm recovering from that model, I'm trying to decrease my drive (by not feeding it with porn) and increase hers (through communication and being more "alpha"). Hers has increased some, and mine has decreased some as a result. I still find myself "binging" sometimes (I'll be super high drive for a whole day or maybe three days) and either viewing porn (rare) or basically initiating more sex than usual (like 2 or 3 times in one day).

My wife seems to think having sex more than once a day is ridiculous, but sometimes she humors me if I make it easy for her .


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## Mr B

You know it has become a problem when he begins to prefer masturbating to porn to having sex with you. This is fairly common for married men in long term relationships who find the arousal and orgasms attained using porn to be stronger and more exciting than sex with a long time partner.


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## russi

I read the OP's post and thought that I might have written it myself and forgot.

I agree with everything everyone else has said....

YES, ED will probably follow eventually. There was a time in my marriage that when my husband and I had intercourse (once every two months or so) he would look at porn for about an hour to get an erection, which he'd lose quickly unless he started to look at porn again.

It's good that you're talking, and if he's responding to your discussions in a positive way, that's a good first step. I'd say don't trust any sort of "I'll work on it." If it's come up multiple times, and multiple times he's failed to keep it from interfering with your relationship together, he can not do it alone. Whether you go to counseling or work together through books and talks is up to you and how you feel about the situation, but just leaving him to his own devices is the wrong choice, as his boundaries he set for himself will slowly expand, I believe. It's what I experienced multiple times, at least.

When you talk about it, make sure you put emphasis on the fact that you're not trying to shame him. For example, not "What you look at disgusts me, you're sick" but "I know that some people are interested in it, but I'm feeling really uncomfortable about it." UNLESS it is something illegal, because he can ruin his life, and he needs help to stop immediately. Don't act like it's your fault, but make sure you don't make him feel horrible about it, he might wall up and it will make the situation worse.

One more thing. And this is probably the most important thing I want to share; Do not, in anyway, let this affect how you feel about yourself. It has the ability to eat away at every part of you, and hurt your relationship in ways you never thought would happen. Remind yourself of all your positive traits, and remember your partner is showing interest and concern, which means he cares and wants things to be better, take heart in that. Believe things can and will be better one way or another, but don't try to brush it aside and ignore. A positive but realistic view is important. And if you have told him that you see it hurting your relationship, and it still happens, YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. Caps lock because this is important. No matter what started it, an inability to respect the other partners feelings and boundaries is in no way your fault, and I have a feeling that might be what the bigger problem is now.

I wish you lots of luck, keep being strong, and stay positive.


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## Tony55

dragonfli said:


> What is a normal amount of porn for a guy to look at and how does one know if its becoming a problem? And how do I figure out why the porn makes me so anxious? Maybe "*I*" am the one with the porn problem.


Your problem is in the acceptance of his viewing porn, by embracing an activity that was once considered something one didn't discuss and did in private, you've removed the _'governor'_ (a device put on machines to limit its function) from his pursuit of porn. In other words, you as a woman, believe it or not, would have balanced him in a positive way simply by standing firm on something you inherently find destructive to the marriage. Would he still masturbate to porn? Of course. But it would be a limited, private activity, governed by the non acceptance of it as something you do openly, like someone passing gas, we all do it, but we prefer it be something someone keeps too themselves or does it in private.

T


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## sexaddictiontreatmenthelp

The issue of porn use is about coping unhealthily with emotions. His embarrassment around it is a sure tell that shame is a factor and he needs help. He should seek counseling for this. Remember that your level/frequency of sexual intimacy is NOT a factor in pornography use. More or less sex with you will not curb his acting out sexually. You will simply become his pornography.


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## ladybird

More than likely ED will come eventually. If he would rather masterbate then have sex with you, his wife, That right there is a problem. 

My husband looked at porn very rarely in the beginning, it didn't like it, but it didn't really bother me much, because we were still having sex and our relationship was great. I should have known better, but I never thought it would ever come between us.

It will eat away at you a little more each and everyday. It will rock the very foundation your marriage stands on, TRUST. It will also cause major issues.. I know it has with my marriage. It has caused major issues in my marriage and I am not sure if the damage that has been done can ever be repaired, and it isn't because he looks at it it is because he chooses it over me and we go months on end. I need sex to feel close to him, who else do you share an intimate moment with other than the man/woman you vowed to spend the rest of your life with and them viewing porn on this level is not upholding the vows they took with you! 

I don't care what anyone says, it will affect your self esteem, self worth, it will also make you feel lonely. It is hard not to feel that way.

Porn makes you anxious because you are competing with it, in a way. If it bothers you you shouldn't have to accept it.


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## Aaronsmid

The volume and accessibility of porn has obviously exploded in recent years as has its acceptance, particularly amongst the younger generation. Therefore answering your original question... 

"What is a normal amount of porn for a guy to look at and how does one know if its becoming a problem? ..." 

I genuinely believe that most men view porn daily. Casually filling dead moments with visual sexual chewing gum. Certainly all the ones I talk to do. Society is still getting itself into gear about this. 

Is it a problem? Almost certainly yes, if you aren't actively sharing the 'pastime' that is. That said my partner watched crap on the TV daily for years. Addicted... Probably... A problem? For me, hell yes it was, I did have the option to join her but passed.


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## ILoveMyWife!

If he doesnt think he has a problem you might want to talk to him kindly and VERY supportively letting him know how you feel. DO NOT PUSH HIM! It will not help to give him ultimatums at this time. He needs to realize things on his own. I realized my problem when I separated from my wife. I realize the issues that were going now on my own.


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## MarriedToTheOne

Exploding the MYTH of Porn Addiction:

Exploding the Myth of ‘Porn Addiction’ | Psych Central News

No such thing as porn 'addiction,' researchers say -- ScienceDaily

http://www.lolitalion.com/why-sex-a...fear-of-sex-a-conversation-with-dr-david-ley/

Is Pornography Addictive?

Why there's no such thing as sex addiction - Telegraph

Don’t believe the sex addiction hype - Salon.com

Pornography and addiction--three harmful myths - counselor

The Myth of "Porn Addiction" - hypnotherapy-in-exeter.co.uk

Dopamine Madness Approaches Critical Mass: The Addiction Myth May Crumble! - The Clean Slate Addiction Site

Christian Myths: Lust - The Christian Left Blog


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## MarriedToTheOne

Double post...


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## mglaser

Porn "is" bad all the way around. It is unhealthy to "any" relationship. It's addictive, and consuming. Needs to "stop" for health to be reinstituted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedToTheOne

mglaser said:


> Porn "is" bad all the way around. It is unhealthy to "any" relationship. It's addictive, and consuming. Needs to "stop" for health to be reinstituted.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well, as the great American spokesman said, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to your own facts." (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)

And what you have expressed is a personal opinion, which is not backed up by any current psychological research or clinical studies. 

The current DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders -- DSM-5 -- used by psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists for mental health treatment, to include addiction) does NOT include pornography as an addiction diagnosis. The current DSM-5 does have a new section for "Behavioral Addiction", but only includes "Pathological Gambling" in it at this time. Internet Gaming Disorder is being researched for inclusion within the future DSM. Online pornography viewing is mentioned in the DSM-5 (as far as having potential, if abused, to become a "problematic disorder" (NOT addiction) however even then there is no accepted diagnostic criteria for "problematic pornography disorder" (much less "pornography addiction").

The addition of an addition of "Hypersexual Disorder" (not Addiction) to include a sub-section on "Pornography Disorder" was proposed (by a quite small number of researchers) and debated, however the vast majority of researchers and psychiatrists declined its inclusion citing its failure to meet accepted criteria for meeting qualifications for an addiction, disorder, or having an established diagnostic criteria. 

Interestingly, one's degree of religious belief has an extremely strong impact on how THEY define pornography. Note that it is not how the experts define it, but how the individual defines it, with many extremely religious people defining viewing pornography ONE TIME as being "Porn addiction"! This study was conducted just this last year by the prestigious Case Western Reserve University.

Pornography obviously has the ability to negatively effect a relationship however that is based on the involved personalities. 

Many couples enjoy watching pornography together as a type of sexual foreplay. In many cases the female also watches pornography (or more frequently reads it... steamy, explicit "romance novels" - such as the immensely popular, best-selling "Fifty Shades of Gray" read mainly by women - are very much indeed pornography - it is NOT just imagery! - though a significant portion of women do watch pornography imagery). Even in cases where only one partner or the other watches (or reads) pornography, it often is not something that the other partner feels threatened by. Especially if the activity is not abused by personality traits.

But this is true of ANY behavioral activity. 

The husband who is so involved (for example) with fishing and fishing equipment purchases and fishing club meetings and buying and reading every possible fishing magazine and book, to the point of emotionally stepping away from his wife, is in a behavior activity that IS very definitely problematic to the relationship. 

The same would be true of the wife who devotes an inordinate amount of HER time to every possible church activity (and even creates other activities, such as a church women's book club, and church women's crochet and knitting club, etcetera, etcetera - and HAS to be involved in everything on ever occasion!). 

In both cases, the activities create an unacceptable distance between the partners and the excessively involved individual is using something else to achieve emotional fulfilment that they should be getting from their partner.... It is a form of EMOTIONAL CHEATING - something that IS recognized by all marital professionals. Lay people tend to think of emotional cheating as strictly involves another person, but it can be one's job, one's outside friends / family, one's hobbies, etcetera. 

Obviously if the other partner participates in that activity also to a STRONG degree, then while it may still be a personality dysfunction, at least it is not relationship threatening.

This is NOT a personal opinion, but a well-recognized fact. Someone who looks at abused pornography viewing as such a personality dysfunction is hypocritical if they do not recognize that ANY type of excessive / abused personal behavior is also a personality dysfunction and readily capable of negatively impacting the relationship.

Then there are the REAL (professionally recognized) ADDICTIONS. 

Drug Addiction. Alcoholism. Pathological Gambling. Etcetera.

Relationships where one of the partners has such a TRUE addiction are (as any professional expert will attest) are truly "living hell". The various personality trait dysfunctions (though potentially problematic for some relationships) pale in comparison. 

In discussions with several psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, and counselors, they not only talk about the extreme difficulties in treating marital problems that involve real addictions as compared to personality trait dysfunctions, but bristle at the thought of any type of comparison between the two... In fact, it was one of those who gave me the illustrations of fishing and church involvement - when carried to extremes and / or abused - as being no different than that of viewing pornography that is also excessive or abused. 

Few reported instances of marital counseling therapy that dealt with that had problems due to pornography viewing - however one who did have such a case also alerted me to the Case Western Reserve study and felt that a current case that she had wasn't due to a situation of that type. Again, ALL were emphatic that recognized REAL addictions were vastly more serious scenarios for successful treatment.

As far as "health", I am not sure what your quote meant by that. If referring to mental health, that has been addressed by the above. Viewing pornography is neither an addiction nor a mental disorder (though it can be a personality trait dysfunction in SOME cases). As far as medical health, I have talked now to several medical doctors and have yet to find one who said that viewing pornography (unless carried to an extreme degree due to being a personality trait dysfunction to the point where, for example, one's sleep suffered for a long time period) created medical health problems. None had ever treated a case where there had been such a degree of excessive behavior of viewing pornography or heard of another doctor who had done so (though one had an insomnia patient from excessive online video gaming and another had an insomnia case from a woman who was involved with excessive online gambling - which the DSM-5 does recognize as an addiction... both cases had the doctors working WITH therapists in treating the underlying cause).

So, aside from your PERSONAL opinion, all / any pornography is NOT an addiction or a problem. It is NOT consuming in every case. It is NOT a problem for every relationship. And it does NOT have to stop to "reinstitute" health (what does that even mean???).

And as a counterpoint, the following ARE recognized Mental Health Disorders (that one sees extremely LITTLE discussion about - which leads me to believe that many people are actually ANTI SEX and not truly concerned with the full range of things that negatively impact on marriages / relationships):

1. Female Sexual Arousal Disorder: This mental health condition is not only recognized by the professional manual DSM-5, but also in prior issues of the DSM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_sexual_arousal_disorder

2. Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder: Also listed in the DSM. Prior to DSM-5, it was so my listed as HSDD, but as of DSM-5 it is now listed separately as Male HSDD and Female HSDD (readily the more prevalent of the two).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoactive_sexual_desire_disorder

Note that these ARE recognized Mental Health Disorders - and that (again) the DSM does not (and has not) recognize(d) pornography (whether audio, imagery, or reading - let's not forget the steamy, explicit romance novels loved by so many women) as an addiction or mental health disorder.

So, if you have a personal problem with an individual with a personality dysfunction trait or are personally against pornography of ANY form or are anti sex or fit into the classification of people (*) identified in the Case Western University study, then so be it. That is a problem, but is an individual problem, an anecdotal report, and not evidence of a full spectrum situation where "one size fits all".

So rather than making such emphatic STATEMENTS as implying fact, I would suggest that such comments be prefaced with "Strictly in my opinion... ".

As Mr. Moynihan said:

"You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."

(BTW, nothing that I have written or quoted is MY opinion. My opinion is my own. I have simply stated facts as reported and recognized by others, by professional experts)

(*) I personally do find it strange that religious people have such a puritanical belief (no pun intended) concerning sex. The Bible is a very sexually themed book (1) and the Song of Songs or Song of Solomon (when read in its original translations before the puritanical re-wording by the Medieval works up to and including the King James Version) is very clearly a story of sexual love between two (apparently pre-marital) lovers. A number of attempts have been made to make it a symbolic story (why so steamy in that case, why not more emotionally romantic rather than sexually romantic?). And of course, all the puritanical re-wording done during the Medieval times (KJV)... I mean, changing the wording of breasts by cling them "fawns" and "does". (2)

(1) Books

The Genesis of Sex
Sex in the Texts
The Earthy Nature of the Bible
God and Sex (Coogan)
The Erotic Word
Sex and the Bible (Ellens)
The Spirituality of Sex
Divine Sex (Thelos)
Sex and God (Ray)
The X-Rated Bible
The Uncensored Bible
Sex Texts from the Bible
Flame of Yahweh
Pregnant Passion
Taboo or Not Taboo
God, Sex, and Women of the Bible
Carnal Israel
Does God Belong in the Bedroom
Sacred Secrets
Yahweh's Wife


Note:
- Kosher Sex
- Kosher Adultery
- Kosher Lust
- Sheets Music (Leman)
- Under the Sheets (Leman)
- Turn Up the Heat (Leman)


(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Songs

Books:

The Song of Songs (Bloch) (Lyrical translation from early Hebrew text)
Strong as Death is Love
Embracing the Devine Feminine
Intimacy Ignited
The Book of Romance
Holy Sex: The Way God Intended It
Solomon's Song of Love
Kiss Me Like You Mean It

The above literature references Judaic and Christian books. The same type of literature can be found within pretty much any religion.

So if secular reasoning (logic and professional experts findings) and theistic faith positions can't establish a position that one can accept, then at least realize that your position is based on personal opinion with no factual, historical, or theistic support.

That said, I am done with this Thread!


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## Uptown

^^^^^ Amazing post. Concise and articulate. Well supported (when also including post #16) by numerous references to blog discussions (e.g., Wikipedia) backed by peer-reviewed articles. Well done, MTTO!


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## badsanta

MarriedToTheOne said:


> Well, as the great American spokesman said, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to your own facts." (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
> 
> And what you have expressed is a personal opinion, which is not backed up by any current psychological research or clinical studies.
> 
> The current DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders -- DSM-5 -- used by psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists for mental health treatment, to include addiction) does NOT include pornography as an addiction diagnosis. The current DSM-5 does have a new section for "Behavioral Addiction", but only includes "Pathological Gambling" in it at this time. Internet Gaming Disorder is being researched for inclusion within the future DSM. Online pornography viewing is mentioned in the DSM-5 (as far as having potential, if abused, to become a "problematic disorder" (NOT addiction) however even then there is no accepted diagnostic criteria for "problematic pornography disorder" (much less "pornography addiction").
> 
> The addition of an addition of "Hypersexual Disorder" (not Addiction) to include a sub-section on "Pornography Disorder" was proposed (by a quite small number of researchers) and debated, however the vast majority of researchers and psychiatrists declined its inclusion citing its failure to meet accepted criteria for meeting qualifications for an addiction, disorder, or having an established diagnostic criteria.
> 
> Interestingly, one's degree of religious belief has an extremely strong impact on how THEY define pornography. Note that it is not how the experts define it, but how the individual defines it, with many extremely religious people defining viewing pornography ONE TIME as being "Porn addiction"! This study was conducted just this last year by the prestigious Case Western Reserve University.
> 
> Pornography obviously has the ability to negatively effect a relationship however that is based on the involved personalities.
> 
> Many couples enjoy watching pornography together as a type of sexual foreplay. In many cases the female also watches pornography (or more frequently reads it... steamy, explicit "romance novels" - such as the immensely popular, best-selling "Fifty Shades of Gray" read mainly by women - are very much indeed pornography - it is NOT just imagery! - though a significant portion of women do watch pornography imagery). Even in cases where only one partner or the other watches (or reads) pornography, it often is not something that the other partner feels threatened by. Especially if the activity is not abused by personality traits.
> 
> But this is true of ANY behavioral activity.
> 
> The husband who is so involved (for example) with fishing and fishing equipment purchases and fishing club meetings and buying and reading every possible fishing magazine and book, to the point of emotionally stepping away from his wife, is in a behavior activity that IS very definitely problematic to the relationship.
> 
> The same would be true of the wife who devotes an inordinate amount of HER time to every possible church activity (and even creates other activities, such as a church women's book club, and church women's crochet and knitting club, etcetera, etcetera - and HAS to be involved in everything on ever occasion!).
> 
> In both cases, the activities create an unacceptable distance between the partners and the excessively involved individual is using something else to achieve emotional fulfilment that they should be getting from their partner.... It is a form of EMOTIONAL CHEATING - something that IS recognized by all marital professionals. Lay people tend to think of emotional cheating as strictly involves another person, but it can be one's job, one's outside friends / family, one's hobbies, etcetera.
> 
> Obviously if the other partner participates in that activity also to a STRONG degree, then while it may still be a personality dysfunction, at least it is not relationship threatening.
> 
> This is NOT a personal opinion, but a well-recognized fact. Someone who looks at abused pornography viewing as such a personality dysfunction is hypocritical if they do not recognize that ANY type of excessive / abused personal behavior is also a personality dysfunction and readily capable of negatively impacting the relationship.
> 
> Then there are the REAL (professionally recognized) ADDICTIONS.
> 
> Drug Addiction. Alcoholism. Pathological Gambling. Etcetera.
> 
> Relationships where one of the partners has such a TRUE addiction are (as any professional expert will attest) are truly "living hell". The various personality trait dysfunctions (though potentially problematic for some relationships) pale in comparison.
> 
> In discussions with several psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, and counselors, they not only talk about the extreme difficulties in treating marital problems that involve real addictions as compared to personality trait dysfunctions, but bristle at the thought of any type of comparison between the two... In fact, it was one of those who gave me the illustrations of fishing and church involvement - when carried to extremes and / or abused - as being no different than that of viewing pornography that is also excessive or abused.
> 
> Few reported instances of marital counseling therapy that dealt with that had problems due to pornography viewing - however one who did have such a case also alerted me to the Case Western Reserve study and felt that a current case that she had wasn't due to a situation of that type. Again, ALL were emphatic that recognized REAL addictions were vastly more serious scenarios for successful treatment.
> 
> As far as "health", I am not sure what your quote meant by that. If referring to mental health, that has been addressed by the above. Viewing pornography is neither an addiction nor a mental disorder (though it can be a personality trait dysfunction in SOME cases). As far as medical health, I have talked now to several medical doctors and have yet to find one who said that viewing pornography (unless carried to an extreme degree due to being a personality trait dysfunction to the point where, for example, one's sleep suffered for a long time period) created medical health problems. None had ever treated a case where there had been such a degree of excessive behavior of viewing pornography or heard of another doctor who had done so (though one had an insomnia patient from excessive online video gaming and another had an insomnia case from a woman who was involved with excessive online gambling - which the DSM-5 does recognize as an addiction... both cases had the doctors working WITH therapists in treating the underlying cause).
> 
> So, aside from your PERSONAL opinion, all / any pornography is NOT an addiction or a problem. It is NOT consuming in every case. It is NOT a problem for every relationship. And it does NOT have to stop to "reinstitute" health (what does that even mean???).
> 
> And as a counterpoint, the following ARE recognized Mental Health Disorders (that one sees extremely LITTLE discussion about - which leads me to believe that many people are actually ANTI SEX and not truly concerned with the full range of things that negatively impact on marriages / relationships):
> 
> 1. Female Sexual Arousal Disorder: This mental health condition is not only recognized by the professional manual DSM-5, but also in prior issues of the DSM.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_sexual_arousal_disorder
> 
> 2. Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder: Also listed in the DSM. Prior to DSM-5, it was so my listed as HSDD, but as of DSM-5 it is now listed separately as Male HSDD and Female HSDD (readily the more prevalent of the two).
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoactive_sexual_desire_disorder
> 
> Note that these ARE recognized Mental Health Disorders - and that (again) the DSM does not (and has not) recognize(d) pornography (whether audio, imagery, or reading - let's not forget the steamy, explicit romance novels loved by so many women) as an addiction or mental health disorder.
> 
> So, if you have a personal problem with an individual with a personality dysfunction trait or are personally against pornography of ANY form or are anti sex or fit into the classification of people (*) identified in the Case Western University study, then so be it. That is a problem, but is an individual problem, an anecdotal report, and not evidence of a full spectrum situation where "one size fits all".
> 
> So rather than making such emphatic STATEMENTS as implying fact, I would suggest that such comments be prefaced with "Strictly in my opinion... ".
> 
> As Mr. Moynihan said:
> 
> "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
> 
> (BTW, nothing that I have written or quoted is MY opinion. My opinion is my own. I have simply stated facts as reported and recognized by others, by professional experts)
> 
> (*) I personally do find it strange that religious people have such a puritanical belief (no pun intended) concerning sex. The Bible is a very sexually themed book (1) and the Song of Songs or Song of Solomon (when read in its original translations before the puritanical re-wording by the Medieval works up to and including the King James Version) is very clearly a story of sexual love between two (apparently pre-marital) lovers. A number of attempts have been made to make it a symbolic story (why so steamy in that case, why not more emotionally romantic rather than sexually romantic?). And of course, all the puritanical re-wording done during the Medieval times (KJV)... I mean, changing the wording of breasts by cling them "fawns" and "does". (2)
> 
> (1) Books
> 
> The Genesis of Sex
> Sex in the Texts
> The Earthy Nature of the Bible
> God and Sex (Coogan)
> The Erotic Word
> Sex and the Bible (Ellens)
> The Spirituality of Sex
> Divine Sex (Thelos)
> Sex and God (Ray)
> The X-Rated Bible
> The Uncensored Bible
> Sex Texts from the Bible
> Flame of Yahweh
> Pregnant Passion
> Taboo or Not Taboo
> God, Sex, and Women of the Bible
> Carnal Israel
> Does God Belong in the Bedroom
> Sacred Secrets
> Yahweh's Wife
> 
> 
> Note:
> - Kosher Sex
> - Kosher Adultery
> - Kosher Lust
> - Sheets Music (Leman)
> - Under the Sheets (Leman)
> - Turn Up the Heat (Leman)
> 
> 
> (2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Songs
> 
> Books:
> 
> The Song of Songs (Bloch) (Lyrical translation from early Hebrew text)
> Strong as Death is Love
> Embracing the Devine Feminine
> Intimacy Ignited
> The Book of Romance
> Holy Sex: The Way God Intended It
> Solomon's Song of Love
> Kiss Me Like You Mean It
> 
> The above literature references Judaic and Christian books. The same type of literature can be found within pretty much any religion.
> 
> So if secular reasoning (logic and professional experts findings) and theistic faith positions can't establish a position that one can accept, then at least realize that your position is based on personal opinion with no factual, historical, or theistic support.
> 
> That said, I am done with this Thread!



This is an old thread and while that post is a great read, it is *"strictly my opinion"* that only someone struggling to justify that their porn habits are not harmful would go through this much research to convince themselves and others that behaviors like watching porn are no more a problematic behavior than being overactive in church functions. 

Wow, just wow! 

Please add to your research if you would, how the impact of working in porn effects the actor/performers in the videos ability to have a healthy family versus the impact of being overactive in the church effects the respective members of the congregation to have a healthy family. 

Simple, one person's problematic behavior is likely harmful to others, while the other contributes in a positive way to the community. I would go so far to say that is a fact and not just my opinion.

Now I am not one of those people that feels porn is a horrible thing, but I do try to be mindful and stick to written literature as it is much less likely that someone was emotionally harmed in the creation of that type of content. Perhaps some workers in the adult film industry like what they do and advocate for newfound sexual freedom and education, which I imagine might help some folks understand themselves better, but if that were the case, this would be a thread about helping someone advocate to not be ashamed of learning to just be themselves around other people and not just watching porn alone in the bathroom (fact the OP did say her husband watched porn alone in the bathroom). 

Cheers,
Badsanta


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## jimrich

dragonfli said:


> I think my husband may have a porn addiction. We have been together 12 yrs and he has always looked at porn and masturbated to it. I didn't ever have an issue as I thought it was pretty normal for guys to do. I would even watch it with him occasionally. I didn't think that (up until a year ago) that it might be a problem. I just couldn't imagine doing that as it is obviously cheating and an offense to my wife's pride and dignity. I have masturbated at certain times but never to avoid or neglect my very HOT wife!
> I told him about a year ago that I thought he might have a problem as he started to spend ALOT of time in the bathroom and he stopped initiating sex, but he has never had an issues with ED. IMO, this is not about sex. It's about some hidden, repressed NEED inside of him that is only satisfied by the IMPERSONALNESS of porn.
> 
> Because I raised the issue, he has over the last year quit looking at it a couple of times, even for as long as 2 months, but he always starts looking again. If this is connected to hidden, neurotic needs, he will not be able to stay away from it UNTIL he faces and resolves those hidden, emotional disturbances.
> 
> I think he looks at it every day now again and I am anxious that it will take over and destroy our marriage. Either by him looking at too much or me making a big deal about what may not even be a real problem.Yes, it certainly can! I am not even really sure what my biggest issue is with the porn. It makes it very difficult to try to talk to him and tell him that it bothers me when I don't even know what it is that BOTHERS me about it. This is where therapy and counseling helps folks to examine and put into words what they FEEL about things. You may be insecure and jealous or just offended that he is finding pleasure away from you - which is Cheating, IMO.
> 
> He does look at VERY hardcore porn, I don't know if the type of porn matters.
> He says he only masturbates about 50% of the time and I believe him because he is spending the most time looking while on work coffee breaks and while at home when I am here. He doesn't have really any alone time, except driving to and from work. The bottom line is WHY does he do it? Is this a neurotic activity that is driven by damaged emotions?
> 
> Every time(since bringing up my issues) I find out that he is looking again and I try to talk to him about it he is embarrassed. He tells me that it MIGHT have been a problem befor (looking too much, *looking at it to avoid dealing with problems,* Well that's about as clear as it can be! It's an emotionally driven NEED! and just being bored and killing time)... but its different now and he says if its becoming too frequent or he can't go a couple of days without looking, that he will scale back. If this habit is about inner stress and damaged emotions, just scaling back won't work for very long!
> 
> We have a pretty good sex life, we are both fairly high drive but when he is tired from work (some days he works 12-16 hour shifts) he says he too tired to have sex so he either just goes into the bathroom to look at porn or masturbates. This really bothers me, not so much the masturbating part...I don't even know, I just feel left out! ... And feeling left out - because you are - is both humiliating and PAINFUL for a spouse who is supposed to be about the most important part of the others life! Of course it "bothers" you - that would BOTHER most spouses, IMO.
> 
> What is a normal amount of porn for a guy to look at and how does one know if its becoming a problem? It's becoming a problem whenever it does NOT FEEL RIGHT to the other partner! And how do I figure out why the porn makes me so anxious? The number 1 way is to be totally HONEST with your self about what you feel and why you feel it! Maybe "*I*" am the one with the porn problem. IMO, you are the VICTIM of a "porn problem" that now exists in your mate. I'd go see a counselor ASAP!


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## peacem

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## Daisy12

I completely know how you feel as porn destroyed my relationship. It has changed how I see my husband and how I think about the kind of man and father he is. I am terrified my girls will find out and lose respect for their father, cause frankly I have lost respect for my husband. He is not the man I thought he was and even though he was completely remorseful and ashamed of what he did and he changed his life to stop looking at porn and has given me all access over his internet use, I still don't know if I want to stay with him. The damage his porn use has done is so great that I'm unsure I want to go one in this marriage. I stay now cause I'm afraid to upset my children's life and I do still love him very much and he has changed and part of me is hoping that the changes will stick and that as time go by I will begin to respect him again.

If this is a problem for you in your marriage, your husband need to make an effort to change, but even if it does don't be surprised if it doesn't fix anything. Some wounds can't be healed. I'm sorry you are here, it's the worse feeling in the world to have your husband do this to you. Please know this is not your fault or your problem and as other people have suggested seeing a counsellor would help. 

All the best.


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