# "Serve Day"



## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Hello all,

A little update here. Wife and I are still separated. The main sticking point on proceeding with a divorce is her insurance coverage...she's almost uninsurable due to pre-existing conditions, and I'm not desiring to cut her off completely. We're kinda' stuck right now...she refuses to get help for her issues (which she claims don't exist), and I'm not willing to leave her without health care coverage.  So no real progress on negotiating a divorce settlement.

In the meantime, the folks at the church we formerly attended (and which she still attends) took it upon themselves to plan a "Day of Service" at the house we both still jointly own. They did this without any consultation on my part at all. To say I feel very conflicted about this is an understatement.

On one hand, I appreciate their concern. I understand their motivation. They want to "do something" and this was what they came up with. 

However, this seems to me to be a HUGE overstepping of boundaries. They take it upon themselves (with my wife's help) to plan a day of service sprucing up our house...and no one bothers to tell me about it until the plans are made and the supplies have been ordered!

I'm guessing that the motivation here is that I'm a deadbeat and am not maintaining our joint marital property during the separation. However, this is not true. I continue to cut the grass, make routine repairs (including rehanging some gutters in some of the awful heat waves we had in Ohio this summer!), and otherwise do my part. I've even been scolded by some of my friends (including a few on this forum) who say I'm doing too much and am being too much of a "nice guy." But the reality is, my name is still on the deed for now, so it's my responsibility to maintain it to the best of my ability.

I called the small group leader to address this issue. First of all, I warned him that a lot of stuff he hears from my wife may be a distortion / smear campaign. He gave me a very "political" answer....he said he knows there are two sides to every story. He did mention in passing that he hears rumors from time to time from ladies in the class who are close to my wife, and that he tries to remind everyone that "there are two sides to every story." But beyond that, he wouldn't offer any specifics. And in his position, I probably wouldn't either.

I then addressed the issue of the upcoming "Serve Day." I said I was uncomfortable with it. He said that it's not unusual to be uncomfortable when someone else is doing something kind for you. He basically said (in a very nice way) that "we're doing it anyway and I hope you and your wife will be able to accept it in the spirit with which it was intended." I think he completely missed my point.

I then talked with my wife about it. I told her I wasn't OK with 2 dozen people tackling projects at our house without my input. She said that she also felt uncomfortable about the magnitude of the project, but it was too late to do anything about it. 

So what should I have done? Put my foot down and been branded an ass? Called the police on "Serve Day" to report them as trespassers?

What do you do when you communicate a boundary and no one listens? 

I decided that this was a boundary I am not going to enforce this time. I know I'm going to take a lot of criticism for this, but I determined that in this instance, the cost of defending the boundary was going to be a cost I'm not willing to bear at this point. And I really DID appreciate all the free work that got done on the house!

Another aspect of all of this bugs me....some of the projects that got done yesterday at the house were projects that I had proposed doing myself. But she always had reasons she didn't want me to do them....she didn't trust me to pull the weeds without hurting the flowers, so she "forbid" me to pull weeds in her favorite flower garden. But she never did either, so the weeds grew up and choked out the flowers and it turned into a "weed garden." But when the folks from church came and offered to clean out the flower bed, she happily let them do it! 

There were various other things around the house that I've deferred from time to time because rather than discuss things rationally and try to come to an agreement, her default position was always something along the lines of "you'll probably screw that up.....just leave it and I'll get it later...."

I know, I know....I should have just done it anyway. But at the time, I wasn't up to dealing with one more verbal tirade.

I think it's another example of black-and-white / BPD thinking....when **I** suggest something, it's a horrible idea because I suggested it. When someone who is showing her sympathy suggests it, it's a wonderful idea!

Again, very conflicted about how to respond to this....the Serve Day was yesterday and apparently a lot got done. I do appreciate getting a lot of free work done on the house...maybe it will help the resale value if we end up selling it in the divorce. On the other hand, I'm feeling overstepped in that I expressed concern to both my wife and the leader of the "serve day," and they both basically brushed off my concerns. 

I could have put my foot down or even called the police, but what would that have really accomplished? Made me look like an ass and validate to the group everything my wife has been saying about me.

My wife claims she didn't ask for help, that the group just kind of came up with the "serve day" idea on their own. However, 24 people don't just give up a gorgeous Saturday in September to go work on somebody else's house unless there's more than meets the eye going on. I'm wondering what my wife is telling everyone that suddenly motivated them to come rip up a concrete sidewalk to install additional drainage, paint both bathrooms, or paint the shed. (All projects I had been proposing for a while, but my wife always had reasons for telling me to put them off.....)

Am I overreacting to this? Am I being a doormat again? What the heck?..........


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Likely a bit of both.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Agreed....what would have been an appropriate / healthy response?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Agreed....what would have been an appropriate / healthy response?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It depends on when you found out about it.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad said:


> It depends on when you found out about it.


Wednesday of this week....the "Day of Service" was yesterday.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Wednesday of this week....the "Day of Service" was yesterday.


The only way you could have really stopped it was to put your foot down immediately. Call the church. Call the pastor. Call it off.

Then again, is your pride the thing that makes you dislike this so much? That people in your community won't think well of you?


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Hmmm...good question.

There is a little bit of a pride thing involved. But I'm not above calling in professional help for home projects that are beyond my abilities.

My bigger concern is what brought this whole thing about? What has she told people as part of the ongoing smear campaign that motivated them to do this? ("Serve Days" aren't unheard of at that church, but they're usually reserved for people who are terminally ill or elderly folks who can't keep up with their homes on their own). If the folks at church wanted to do something that would REALLY be helpful, they might confront her about her smear campaigns. Also, I'm concerned that their efforts could have been spent elsewhere, helping an elderly or critically ill person who really did have some serious problems at their house. Most of our stuff was either routine or long-term wish list items that have flexible timing requirements....nothing was critical like water in the basement or the ceiling collapsing due to leaks in the roof.

It also seems to me as if my wife, and by extension the folks at church, have already effectively invalidated me by not listening to my concerns about the property.

I don't really care what the neigjbors think about me. The neighbors know that we're separated, and that is a bigger point of embarassment for me than a work day at the house. It's easier for neighbors to understand shutters needing painted than it is to understand a broken home.

Maybe I'm making too big a deal about all of this. It's one of those subtle, backhanded things that makes you feel both grateful and uneasy at the same time. If it were just routine thing that the folks at church do for each other all the time, I'd be fine with it. But knowing that the last time our class did something like that was for a woman who was bedridden with terminal cancer, it makes me wonder what's being said behind my back.

Just not sure how to take it......


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It depends on when you found out about it.


Very good point!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Hmmm...good question.
> 
> There is a little bit of a pride thing involved. But I'm not above calling in professional help for home projects that are beyond my abilities.
> 
> ...


Then it's really on her, isn't it?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Wife and I are still separated. The main sticking point on proceeding with a divorce is her insurance coverage...


Hurt, we've been talking about your abusive W since July of last year. YOU SHOULD HAVE FILED FOR D THEN. I am simply flabbergasted that you are still protecting her from suffering the logical consequences of her own selfish, childish, mean behavior. Meanwhile, she's spent another year running around town to portray you as "The Perpetrator" -- all because she is so convinced she is "The Victim," always "The Victim."


> I'm wondering what my wife is telling everyone that suddenly motivated them to come rip up a concrete sidewalk to install additional drainage....


WONDERING? Telling awful things about you? You think? She is just telling them the same crap she was telling a year ago. This is OLD NEWS. Last March 11, I posted in your thread that _"her accusations of your being abusive are getting worse but there certainly is nothing new about them. A year ago, she accused you of being a danger to your son (by being neglectful) when he burned his finger on the lawnmower."_ Last July 8, you said _"I'm sure she's at church right now telling all her friends what a scum I am because she caught me lying." _

As I've stated before, women having strong BPD traits are extremely persuasive because most of the outrageous things coming out of their mouths are projections that they sincerely believe (because they are created subconsciously). You therefore are very fortunate to have lasted another year in your toxic marriage without her having you arrested, as my BPDer exW did to me. 

If you think having two dozen people in your front yard is embarrassing, just wait until your neighbors are on their lawns, watching you being handcuffed and hauled off in a police car -- as happened to me. Like you, I foolishly stayed in the toxic marriage so I could ensure my BPDer exW had medical insurance and got treatment.


> Am I overreacting to this?


Are you kidding? You aren't even close to UNDERreacting. Except for complaining about it here, you've not reacted at all. Two dozen people have just treated you like a charity-case and you still don't realize how insulted you were. 

Many years ago, I lived in an apartment building where someone on my floor had been stealing my newspaper several days a week for four months. Because it was done on an irregular basis, it was difficult to catch the person. Yet, one day I was home doing my exercises near the front door -- and I heard a rustling noise in the hallway. I opened the door quickly to find my next door neighbor kneeling down with my paper in her hand.

She was so startled by my catching her that she fell over backwards, doing a full backwards somersault there on the floor, just four feet in front of me. She said nothing -- trying to pretend she was only glancing at my paper in her hands. Being utterly humiliated at being caught in such a petty theft, she put the paper down but didn't even manage to stand up. Instead, after righting herself following the sommersault, she crawled on her hands and feet back into her own front door, which was just five feet down the hall. (Yes, this was one of those rare "There IS a God" moments.)

I realized, of course, that she would feel she had to continue stealing my newspapers for a while because a sudden stop in the theft would constitute an open admission she was the one who had been doing it for four months. So, of course, three days later, my paper was again stolen. And it happened two more times after that.

To put an end to it, each time my paper was missing, I went downstairs and bought one and then placed it in front of her door. On the three occasions I did this, I wrote on the front page -- in large, black letters -- "*Complimentary Copy -- So Sorry You Are Going Through Hard Times*." Because I did not put my name on the paper, the only way she could know it was from me was to know someone had been stealing my paper for four months. She therefore had to endure the humiliation in silence.

Of course, she would have to have been an idiot to believe the complimentary copies were an indication of my being "so sorry." We both knew I was purposefully SHAMING HER, not doing a good deed at all. 

I mention all this, Hurt, to say I believe your W likely has persuaded some of those church members that your behavior is shameful. I therefore agree with your "guess" that _"the motivation here is that I'm a deadbeat and am not maintaining our joint marital property during the separation."_ They were doing YOU a favor (in supporting her) in the same way that child protective services will be doing YOU a favor when they finally believe her false allegations about the burned finger and come to take your son away.

That is, I suspect you've just been handed a newspaper saying, "*Complimentary Copy -- So Sorry You Are Going Through Hard Times*." I believe it is about time you experienced sufficient righteous anger -- against your W, not the well-meaning church members -- to get you to file for divorce.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Hurt, we've been talking about your abusive W since July of last year. YOU SHOULD HAVE FILED FOR D THEN. I am simply flabbergasted that you are still protecting her from suffering the logical consequences of her own selfish, childish, mean behavior.


Uptown, I get where you're coming from. If I were in your shoes, I'd be flabbergasted right now, too.

Here's my main hangup. And this is HUGE. My religious background includes the belief that divorce is never acceptable except in cases of adultery. These are beliefs that I have earnetsly begun to question the last few years, but the depth of their roots in my psyche are HUGE.

I grew up in a church that today would be described as spiritually abusive. There were dictates as to how long a woman should wear her hair. What jewelry was permitted (wedding rings only). How long a woman's skirt had to be (skirts only! No slacks allowed!). Thankfully, I've moved beyond an environment that is THAT regimented, but I still hang out on the conservative side of the theological street.

To give you an example of the type of beliefs I'm surrounded by, look at the big stink recently caused by one of the pastors at Saddleback Chuch in California. He basically said that abuse is not a good enough reason for divorce. He did leave open the door for long-term separation, but not divorce. All you need to do is google search "saddleback minister abuse" and get the full story.

My pastor at the time gave me this wisdom....he told me it was my duty to stay and become a "human punching bag" if necessary to make my marriage work. That God expected nothing less of me. That one made me physically ill. At least the abuse I've endured is "only" emotional and verbal. I sure as hell hope he isn't giving that advice to battered women. Wow.

This type of thinking makes me physcially ill. It reminds me of a woman I heard of whose mechanic husband sabotaged her car brakes to try to kill her. She discovered his plot in time, but her church told her she did not have Biblical grounds for divorce. Apparently in their worldview, attempted murder is OK, but adultery is a sin. Obviously, I overstate my case, but that's the type of thinking that I'm surrounded by.

Strangely, my super-conservative parents raised me in this mindset until I got married myself, and then they divorced. I've always wondered if things would have turned out differently for me had they gotten divorced earlier. I know they were staying together for me and my sister, but the message we received was that marriage is mutual misery. I'm married to someone who possibly has BPD....my sister has never married or even seriously dated. Staying together for the kids really worked wonders in my family!

And I reject the thinking that abuse is not a "good enough" cause for divorce. I don't believe God calls us to live in abusive relationships. I believe that if we rely too heavily on certain specific verses from the Bible without taking the context into account, we come away with a very warped view of Christianity. At least that's what I would say to a battered woman who asked me my opinion. Why do I have such a hard time applying it to myself? I think mainly because my wife's abuse toward me has been only verbal and emotional. And I'm still stuck with the idea that marriage is a life-long covenant that cannot be broken unless one of us is unfaithful. I'm literally afraid I'll burn in hell if I divorce her.

But then i look at my own situation. So far, I have never been physically threatened. There are months (hell, even YEARS) when there is no abuse at all. But when it erupts, it's like a living hell for literally moths at a time. 

Lately, things have been calmer. I'm not sure if this is a true change of heart, or if it just means she's happier without me around (she's made statements before that she's in a better mood whenever I'm not around!). There have even been a few scraped knees and cut fingers that she could have blamed on me, but didn't! Is this a sign of good things to come? Or is it the cylcical nature of BPD?

This past weekend, against my better judgment, I put a new rook on the out-shed. That was one project that the folks at "serve day" didn't do. (You may commence flaming now!) At first, she told me the trim looked like crap and that she'd have her best friend's husband come clean up my mistakes next week. But then later, she told me how much she appreciated what I did. And I sensed she really meant it. Is this a change of heart? Or more BPD mind games?

If it were my decision alone, I would have been gone YEARS ago. But I still worry about what God thinks about me. Does he expect me to endure hell now, to avoid hell later?

I'm a very lost man right now.......


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Uptown, I get where you're coming from. If I were in your shoes, I'd be flabbergasted right now, too.


Hurt, actually, you are in my shoes -- the ones I was wearing six years ago. Remember, I lived with my BPDer exW for 15 years and didn't D until 18 months after that. Hence, you are doing at least as well as I did. Although I get impatient with you, I don't mean to be judgmental. With my advice, it's a case of "do as I say, not as I did." I hate to see you going down the same painful path I took for so many years.


> Here's my main hangup. And this is HUGE. My religious background includes the belief that divorce is never acceptable except in cases of adultery.


I understand. Boy do I understand! I grew up in a fundamentalist church and, while in college, I de-pledged a fraternity because I believed all the drinking was sinful. I also went door to door giving testimony with a Bible in my hand. Indeed, I did my undergraduate work in the Midwest in the heart of the Bible belt. When someone on campus approached me with a joint, I reported him immediately to a security guard -- who simply laughed at me for getting so worked up about it. Needless to say, I've changed a lot over the years.


> Why do I have such a hard time applying it to myself? I think mainly because my wife's abuse toward me has been only verbal and emotional.


No, that's not the reason. You know as well as I do that verbal and emotional abuse can be far more damaging than physical abuse. IMO, your adult logic already has a good grasp of what needs to be done but your intuitive mind, i.e., the "inner child," is lagging behind by many months. For all human beings, it seems true that the inner child makes at least 90% (if not 95%) of the important decisions. I was 50 years old before I understood that simple notion. And it took me 12 years to do it.

What happened was that, for 12 years, I took my bipolar foster son to a weekly family group meeting with the psychologist who was treating him. Whenever the psychologist challenged me on something, I always had an elaborate well-thought-out explanation for doing whatever I had chosen to do. Never mind that what I had chosen was not working with my foster son and never mind that I kept repeating the same pattern year after year.

The psychologist was always greatly amused by my explanations. He would laugh and point out, in his kindly fashion, that my elaborate rationalizations could not disguise the fact that my inner child -- not my adult -- was calling all the shots, making nearly all the decisions. In any contest between the adult and child, he claimed, the child would almost always win. But I just could not swallow that concept.

Yet, after twelve years of his gentle rebukes, it dawned on me one night -- right as I was about to drift into sleep -- why he had to be right. My inner child, I suddenly realized, is the sole judge of what is fun and what is not fun. That decision is all powerful. The adult part of my mind will nearly always conclude that it makes no sense -- indeed, would be preposterous -- to do something, go somewhere, or date someone I do not enjoy. My adult logic thus nearly always has to end up in the lap of my inner child.

This is why learning about my exW's problem (BPD) and my problem (codependency) is the easy part. What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts. Simply stated, I had to persuade my child that my adult views of my ex's illness and my own codependency are correct. Had I failed in that effort, I would remain stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots.


> I'm literally afraid I'll burn in hell if I divorce her.


I suspect you are so burdened with GUILT over the thought of walking away from a sick loved one -- a notion that is ANATHEMA to us caregivers -- that you cannot believe at a gut level that God will forgive you. How can he when you are unable to forgive yourself? 

Yet, if you are married to a BPDer as I was, you can get rid of the guilt by reading about this disorder. You will find that, by continuing to stay in the marriage and walking on eggshells, you are harming your W by protecting her from the logical consequences of her own bad behaviors -- thereby destroying her opportunities to confront her issues and learn how to control them.


> There are months (hell, even YEARS) when there is no abuse at all. But when it erupts, it's like a living hell for literally moths at a time.


Given what is at stake, it is important you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid opinion on what it is you and your son are dealing with. BPD traits are persistent and triggered (typically every two or three weeks, if not sooner) by minor events. They do not lie dormant for "years," as you say. Moreover, the outbursts do not last for "months at a time." Although nastiness and cold withdrawal may easily last that long, the rages and temper tantrums typically last only several hours (and rarely as long as 18 hours).


> Or is it the cyclical nature of BPD?


BPD does not have a "cyclical nature." As I said, the rages are unpredictable, being triggered by very minor things you say or do. Because the anger is always there, it only has to be triggered by a perceived threat of abandonment or engulfment. This is why the spouses always have the feeling they are walking on eggshells -- they never know what minor thing will set the BPDer off next.

If your W's outbursts really are cyclical in nature, one possibility to consider is bipolar disorder. It is cyclical because it is caused by gradual, slow swings in body chemistry. Another thing to consider is a hormone problem (or even a head injury) which can cause a flare up of strong BPD traits lasting a few months at a time.


> Or more BPD mind games?


Although BPDers sometimes play mind games, the far greater problem is their heavy reliance on projection. Because projection works at the subconscious level, BPDers are firmly convinced that the outrageous accusations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true. And, a week later when they are saying the exact opposite, they are firmly convinced it is true also. 

Significantly, this flipping from one extreme view to the other usually is NOT the result of mind games. Instead, it is due to the projections which create distorted perceptions of your intentions and motivations. Yet, because a BPDer has been thinking in this distorted way (with regard to loved ones) since early childhood, she cannot see that she is doing anything wrong.


> I'm a very lost man right now.


I really doubt that, Hurt. I believe it would be more accurate to say you are strongly "conflicted" due to the remaining disparity between what you know intellectually and what you feel to be true at the gut level. I had the same conflict myself after reading about my W's BPD traits. Because I had lived with her for 15 years, it took more than two years for my inner child to catch up with my logical adult. Until that happened, my inner child kept sabotaging my efforts to break away from my exW.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Although BPDers sometimes play mind games, the far greater problem is their heavy reliance on projection. Because projection works at the subconscious level, BPDers are firmly convinced that the outrageous accusations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true. And, a week later when they are saying the exact opposite, they are firmly convinced it is true also.
> 
> Significantly, this flipping from one extreme view to the other usually is NOT the result of mind games. Instead, it is due to the projections which create distorted perceptions of your intentions and motivations. Yet, because a BPDer has been thinking in this distorted way (with regard to loved ones) since early childhood, she cannot see that she is doing anything wrong..


Interesting that you mentione projection. Because I see that as being one of THE key problems I've kept encountering. Before I had read about BPD, I used to tell my wife, "If there is ever an opportunity to interpret something I've done in more than one way, it seems to me as if you always choose the worst possible interpretation..." Naturally, this didn't get anywhere, but it's how I felt.

My counselor mentioned something recently...she went as far as she ethically could, but I still got the message. She mentioned in very generic terms how she often likes to get spouses in her office individually and hear their interpretation of events. She said frequently, the wife will go in and tell a story about an abusive husband who is terrorizing her, etc. The counselor said she's often almost ready to call authorities based on what she's hearing.

Then, she'll get the husband in. If it's truly an abusive situation, she asks leading questions and can usually uncover hidden anger. But she said if she's dealing with a personality disorder, almost as soon as the husband starts telling his side of the story, she said, "it becomes very clear what I'm dealing with...."

She told me this, and I remarked, "Yes...I noticed you did that several times with my wife and me when we were both coming to see you." I then said, "I can only imagine the bad things my wife said about me, but I know you can't say...." The counselor just looked at me and nodded, but I think I read the expression on her face. It was as close as she could come without actually filling in the blanks for me. 

The counselor also made a comment to both of us once that after us both telling her our version of the same story, that if she didn't know better she would swear it was a different event. She made a point that our two different perceptions were WAY beyond what would be normal differences in a narrative between two normal people.

Finally, I told my counselor about another interesting clue I had discovered. My wife had taken our son to go visit her parents several weeks before I moved out. I was doing an inventory of our property, at my lawyer's advice. As I was looking in one of our closets, I found a briefcase-sized fireproof safe, once which I didn't know about. As it turned out, the key for it was the same as the key for the safe I did know about. When I opened it, I found several DVDs of our son's pictures, and scanned documents. I also found an envelope bearing the insctiption "Emergency Cash."

Next to the safe, I found two duffel bags that were clearly packed in anticipation of being gone for several days. One bag had several changes of my son's clothes in them, including a stash of pull-ups. The other bag had several changes of my wife's clothes. Since they were out of town for a visit to family, I knew she had to have two other suitcases with her. So what the hell was this?

It looked like an emergency stash that she had put aside, ready to bail out and leave me at a moment's notice. She had hidden it in a closet that I rarely rummaged through, so I'm sure she thought I'd never find it. I left it exactly as I found it.

When I told the counselor this, she said that's the kind of thing she would advise a client in a physically abusive relationship to do....be prepared to leave at a moment's notice. However, she never told my wife to do that, because she (the counselor) doesn't see any abusive tendencies in me. 

What does this mean? What the counselor said (and I agree), is that my wife is projecting "abusive husband" onto me. I had another psychologist tell me once that BPD is like a movie playing in a person's head....everyone else in their life is like a movie screen which the movie gets projected onto. No matter what you say or do, no matter how hard you try to "do better," the movie is all they can see.

And I get that. What I don't get is that now that I've moved out, why is she being nicer - at least to my face? I've heard that most BPD breakups can be hell. Not that I want to go through that kind of hell, but why the sudden "nice" act? Is it an act?

The counselor suggested one possibility...now that she can portray herself as a victim to the folks at church, she gets the sympathy she craves so much, and that temporarily puts her demons to rest. I don't know. She's actually doing a lot of healthier things, including getting more connected with friends and attending a divorce support group. I can see how folks might see her as the victim....if I hadn't lived through the past several years and seen her "other" side, I wouldn't believe it myself, based on her current behavior.

This is all so confusing......


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hurt,

I remember the day I was told that it was "tempting" to take "some" of the money I provided and "set it aside".

I would have never dreamed.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Conrad.... I'm not sure I know the full story. Where can I learn more about the story you're referring to?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> Conrad.... I'm not sure I know the full story. Where can I learn more about the story you're referring to?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's not all in one place.

I was just referring to the similar thought patterns of having clothes packed and ready with the idea that you should divert household money to pack your "saddlebags".


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> What does this mean? What the counselor said (and I agree), is that my wife is projecting "abusive husband" onto me.


Because BPDers are always seeking validation of their false self image of being "The Victim," you are allowed to play only two roles. One is the role of "The Savior," which you can play whenever she is infatuated with you or otherwise splitting you white. The other role, of course, is "The Perpetrator," the cause of her every misfortune. If you set strong healthy boundaries and refuse to play those roles, a BPDer typically will leave you, as my exW did to me.


> Now that I've moved out, why is she being nicer - at least to my face? ...why the sudden "nice" act? Is it an act?


Perhaps. Or perhaps she's flipped to splitting you white. But does it really matter??? You know it won't last no matter what it is. That is the way emotionally unstable people behave.


> The counselor suggested one possibility...now that she can portray herself as a victim to the folks at church, she gets the sympathy she craves so much, and that temporarily puts her demons to rest.


Yes, as long as she is getting validation (of her "victim" status) by trashing you behind your back, she will have far less need to trash you to your face. Another possibility is that she is "triangulating," a behavior BPDers do a lot of.

Essentially, they obtain validation for their "victim" status by badmouthing one person (e.g., the spouse) to another person (or group of people). Yet, if they persist in that for very long, the other person's eyes eventually roll back into his head because he gets tired hearing about it. The BPDer therefore switches the two people in the other corners of the triangle. That is, she will start badmouthing the third person to the husband, while bragging on the H and building him up.

This triangulation is often seen when a BPDer plays the spouse off against the child, sometimes favoring the spouse and sometimes favoring the child. Of course, it also can be extended to include other family members, friends, or church members.


> I can see how folks might see her as the victim....if I hadn't lived through the past several years and seen her "other" side, I wouldn't believe it myself, based on her current behavior.


As I noted earlier, the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning, which means they interact very well with business associates, casual friends, and total strangers. None of those people see her dark side because they pose no threat to her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment). This is why, when you divorce a BPDer, you can expect to lose most if not all of your common friends. They cannot imagine that she would be telling such awful things about you unless they are true.


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

It's interesting to me how tenacious denial can be. This week, I've been muling over how close I might have come to losing everything. The accusations. The threats. Telling our close friends I'm abusive. Claiming I was trying to have her committed so I could take our son. Telling folks I was likely to hurt her (never laid a hand on anyone in anger, but especially not her!) And finally, discovery of her secret "getaway stash."

So why do I still doubt myself? When I'm feeling "sane," I admit to myself that all it would have taken is one mistake on my part....a raised voice, an accidental injury, anything....and I could have lost EVERYTHING. Even my very freedom!

You'd think that realization would help me see past any short-term improvements in her demeanor. So why do I still question myself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

hurtnohio said:


> When I'm feeling "sane," I admit to myself that all it would have taken is one mistake on my part....a raised voice, an accidental injury, anything....and I could have lost EVERYTHING. Even my very freedom!


Yes, if your W is a BPDer as you suspect, you are in great danger. A person who is incapable of trusting you (and even herself) can turn on you with a vengeance at any time. My BPDer exW, for example, had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge after I had taken care of her, and her five children, for 15 years.


> You'd think that realization would help me see past any short-term improvements in her demeanor. So why do I still question myself?


Again, my view is that the logical adult part of your mind was convinced months ago and no longer is questioning the danger you are in. You will not be willing to act on that intellectual knowledge, however, until you close the gap between your adult logic and the feelings of your inner child. As I said above,_What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts. Simply stated, I had to persuade my child that my adult views of my ex's illness and my own codependency are correct. Had I failed in that effort, I would remain stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots._​


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## hurtnohio (Jul 17, 2011)

Uptown said:


> Yes, if your W is a BPDer as you suspect, you are in great danger. A person who is incapable of trusting you (and even herself) can turn on you with a vengeance at any time. My BPDer exW, for example, had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge after I had taken care of her, and her five children, for 15 years.Again, my view is that the logical adult part of your mind was convinced months ago and no longer is questioning the danger you are in. You will not be willing to act on that intellectual knowledge, however, until you close the gap between your adult logic and the feelings of your inner child. As I said above,_What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts. Simply stated, I had to persuade my child that my adult views of my ex's illness and my own codependency are correct. Had I failed in that effort, I would remain stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots._​


It's possible my faith is contributing to this. Having been taught for years that "God can do anything," and that "childlike faith" is important to God, I feel a lot of guilt over my decision to leave. My understanding of the role.faith plays in all this has become more nuanced over the years.....for example, I no longer believe that being a Christian requires me to be a doormat. I also understand that God will only change people who WANT to change. But old patterns of beliefs die hard. Were it no for the obligations I felt my faith imposed on me, I would have left a decade ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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