# Just had 10 year anniversary; things aren't good



## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

Hi everyone, I am trying to get some thoughts, reflections, frameworks on what I can do to change the dynamic of my marriage. I have always been "the rock," according to my wife, of our relationship, but over the past few years I have realized that I myself don't really have that from her. I am now actually getting to the point where it all feels very hopeless and I am having a very difficult time seeing anything good or functional from our relationship in 10 years, even 5 years with her. I've always been an optimist, but I am losing that and fast.

How I got here...

1. We both have great full time employment - I won't get into details here, but we really don't have anything to complain about. Everything has been good for a long time. We've never not been employed since we met in school. The level of stress in our relationship, along with coping strategies, does not bode well if and when this would happen. We don't own a house, but I cannot see us doing this with the way we currently work together and manage stress. She makes marginally more than I do, but I also have way more benefits, so it works mostly.

2. We have two kids- both beautiful and wonderful kids. Our parenting styles are different, but our goals are similar. This is probably the only OK thing happening right now. Our kids are picking up on our negative relationship though. I found out that like a year ago, my 3 year old was telling my mother that she "thinks mommy should be nicer to daddy." I was shocked. I have kept silence on this for the reason I am about to get to...

3. Emotional stress and coping- I don't understand my wife's approach to dealing with stress. It's hard to describe this in a forum post, but I have simply had too many extremely, extremely emotional arguments/discussions with her where she ends up on her knees, on the floor screaming and begging me for something. I don't even know how to respond to this anymore; I end up trying to avoid difficult topics because I have a fear of descending into this madness again and again. There are so many examples of emotional meltdowns, I cannot understate how negative this has become. I don't trust her with difficult topics anymore. For years, she blows up saying "you must HATE me," well, it is starting to become true. She has been going to a meditation class, but I have not noticed any change. I still feel a wildly irrational response always simmering right below the surface of our interactions.

4. We live away from family and are sleep deprived. This is no good for anyone and for sure calls into question your perspective on things.

5. We have almost no time for each other. Like, literally none. I have asked for more time from my wife, but all I can get from her is one night a week for 2 hours after the kids go to bed. I am just as busy as her and I don't see how we can improve the marriage without spending time with each other. It is very, very frustrating.

6. On a related note, I like sex. I like intimacy. Our relationship used to be pretty hot and we used to talk and be physical, now she complains about her body all the time and doesn't believe me when I tell her she is beautiful. She commits to sex on our one night a week, but it is routine and I don't think she wants it. This is a tricky thing, because at least we still have it sort of, but I think it is important to have it as much as possible. It is a way of communicating when words fail, you know? I expressed interest having sex more often, and that was dismissed with a "well everyone I talk to says once a week is what they do." I find that pretty dismissive and insulting, actually. Her sex drive has declined significantly and it is really depressing. I definitely do not feel desired or wanted, which creates a vicious cycle because then you end up acting that way unintentionally.

7. I have no other friends locally. I am working on this, but I work with all women basically. This changes who I can be friends with at work a lot. Plus, people suspect you when you are a male and start seeking friendships without your spouse. It is remarkable, actually. I have no desire for an extramarital anything; I also know that my wife is not responsible for my happiness, so what else can I do?

8. I help with the kids all the time. She gets them up in the morning, I put them to bed all by myself. We split things more or less very well.

9. Life is better when she is gone. She was recently out of town for 4 days on a trip, I was with the kids all by myself and we did so much. I was still sleep deprived, but it was 100% less stressful. There was no crying. We had fun. It was a peace I haven't known in years.

so...
I am seeking help from a counselor because I am developing a lot of blaming attitudes toward her. She refuses to go, saying "I already know what they're going to say." It is hard for me to understand this response. I feel like the older I get, the less I know. This, along with my feelings of extreme hopelessness, are red flags for me, but I am really at the end of my rope. I always thought I could handle a lot, but I feel incredibly alone and lonely and I don't see a good resolution to all of this. I know no one is perfect and I definitely am not, but this can't go on. All I want is a peaceful and loving relationship with my wife. I am afraid of spillover of this into other aspects of my life.

Thanks in advance for any constructive comments. I am not even sure what to expect.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

I have just a couple questions before being able to offer any input. You state: " I have simply had too many extremely, extremely emotional arguments/discussions with her where she ends up on her knees, on the floor screaming and begging me for something." 
What kinds of topics are the two of you are discussing that lead to this type of breakdown? And what is it that she is begging from you? It would help to have some specifics to know if her reactions are normal or way overboard. 

You have no time together? About that - how old are the kids? Are they overcommitted with activities? What time is their bedtime? What goes on in the late evening that keeps the two of you with only 1 free 2 hour time per week to spend together?


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

He put it as number 6 but so many of these threads are about sex.

It is always about sex, or lack thereof.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

the list is just to separate my ideas/points. sex is probably high on my list most days, but it was the dismissive attitude I received that really stings. It's sometimes hard to know if lack of sex causes or is a symptom of another problem. I'm open to the realization it could be both. I can't make her want me or want sex, you know? 

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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I think that most of our marriage problems stem from a lack of understanding. I think you should have your wife read your post, and this way you are being honest with her and you are letting her know that this is a serious issue for you that can't be dismissed. 

What is her side of the story? Is she happy with you and the marriage?


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

troubledinma said:


> I can't make her want me or want sex, you know?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


I do know.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

Abc123wife said:


> I have just a couple questions before being able to offer any input. You state: " I have simply had too many extremely, extremely emotional arguments/discussions with her where she ends up on her knees, on the floor screaming and begging me for something."
> What kinds of topics are the two of you are discussing that lead to this type of breakdown? And what is it that she is begging from you? It would help to have some specifics to know if her reactions are normal or way overboard.
> 
> You have no time together? About that - how old are the kids? Are they overcommitted with activities? What time is their bedtime? What goes on in the late evening that keeps the two of you with only 1 free 2 hour time per week to spend together?


it's hard to respond with specifics since this is usually the culmination of a different sensitive discussions. I will respond this evening when I get a moment. I need to think about a good example. 

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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

Lack of sex most surely is a symptom and it causes more problems. If she is bodyconcious and just goes through the motions to stop you from demanding it it just adds more stress to the whole situation. The more stress there is, the more she does not like to have sex and be intimate. But if you would stop demanding it she would on the one side feel relieved she does not have to do it, on the other side it adds more resentment because she feels even more undesirable. Same goes for you telling her that she is beautiful. That is expected and does not count. If you would stop telling her it would be a major issue.

How old are your kids, is there the possibility to get a babysitter once a week to get some alone time for you? Just going to dinner, cinema, concerts or whatever. Or having your/her parents take the kids for a weekend so you can spend some time together?
Why does she have no time for you? What is she doing after work? Chores? Work? Kids? She has time for meditation class, what is she saying about that, does she feel it is helping her? How?

Did she ever have documented mental problems or are there problems in her family? Any substance abuse?


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

I'm not reading sex as the primary issue but rather the emotions out of wack. My DW went on Zoloft and that evened her out and fixed a lot.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

Tortdog said:


> I'm not reading sex as the primary issue but rather the emotions out of wack. My DW went on Zoloft and that evened her out and fixed a lot.


oddly enough, she refuses to consider this, citing the negative impact on her sex drive. 

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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

rzmpf said:


> Lack of sex most surely is a symptom and it causes more problems. If she is bodyconcious and just goes through the motions to stop you from demanding it it just adds more stress to the whole situation. The more stress there is, the more she does not like to have sex and be intimate. But if you would stop demanding it she would on the one side feel relieved she does not have to do it, on the other side it adds more resentment because she feels even more undesirable. Same goes for you telling her that she is beautiful. That is expected and does not count. If you would stop telling her it would be a major issue.
> 
> How old are your kids, is there the possibility to get a babysitter once a week to get some alone time for you? Just going to dinner, cinema, concerts or whatever. Or having your/her parents take the kids for a weekend so you can spend some time together?
> Why does she have no time for you? What is she doing after work? Chores? Work? Kids? She has time for meditation class, what is she saying about that, does she feel it is helping her? How?
> ...


none. no, she has never had any diagnosed problems. 

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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

troubledinma said:


> oddly enough, she refuses to consider this, citing the negative impact on her sex drive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


Well, and there is that. I do think it has hurt my wife's sex drive and that was hell to deal with. She still uses it and that makes the sex issue tougher. 

There are alternatives to Zoloft. My wife has toyed with changing up. But take away Zoloft and my wife is a wreck. I mean, I can deal with it but she can't deal with herself. She hates living with us as a family, hates me, etc. Zoloft helps put away all her mean thoughts. 

Go figure.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Meditation is nice.

*But!*

Aspirin is really good for a headache.

But no doctor would prescribe it to treat, for example, an ingrowing toenail.

That would require minor surgery.

Your wife needs evaluation to see if she needs the attention of a psychiatrist or a psychologist because she is clearly suffering from some mental disorder. 

And it is so bad that even a child of three can identify it.

And that's another thing. You and the children are being negatively impacted by her behaviour, family counselling might be of help.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

He's right. Drag her in... Somehow.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Since you're sleep deprived, it seems you have too much on your plate. Re-prioritize and drop some things if you can. How old are your children?

The next time she gets down on her knees and starts screaming and begging, you look at her and tell her very softly that you will talk with her when she behaves like an adult and not a toddler.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

kids are 1.5 and 4. I've dropped all my non work commitments. the 1.5 year old doesn't make it through the night yet. my approach with the kneeling has come to asking her- does this help you? it doesn't help me. 

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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Take turns with the baby. At least one of you will be getting a full night's rest every other night. No sense in both being up.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

I have been reflecting on the typical topic and trajectory of the conversation. It usually is something about me not saying we spend enough time together, so it becomes a discussion about work, stress, etc. It then gradually crescendos to an all-out crazy scene and a lot of crying/screaming/sobbing/kneeling -usually in about 15 minutes and gets much worse as time goes on (she should, after all, be doing work). It IS hard because there are, at some point, so many hours in the day. She feels I basically am one more person requesting her time. I get that to a certain extent, but I go long periods of time like this with trying to give her space, so when I say something, it is not arbitrary and it's not a constant nag. I do however feel that *nothing* will change (for the better) without time spent on it - even if your reason is work. I do think she is stressed past the max, but it has been that way for years really and I can't tell any difference in coping. There is one difference, I am becoming less able to cope except now I don't have another me to rely on. I basically only have her and I can't.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Take turns with the baby. At least one of you will be getting a full night's rest every other night. No sense in both being up.


-One of the difficult lessons in marriage is that what is equal is right, but what is right, isn't always equal. What we do is one of us sleeps upstairs away from the kids every night. I just spoke with her tonight about this. I have been up with the baby the last two nights (she was upstairs) and probably got 8 hours sleep over the two nights. I have been obviously not at my best today, but here's the thing, she was up *anyways* every time she heard the baby cry. I heard her walking around upstairs and she says this.

I argued with her because in the past, she lords it over me, like she is always making the sacrifice and not getting sleep, etc., so it is like she has the right to be mean and short tempered. I am 110% willing to take it for the team and get in there and stay up with the baby, except then we get the worst outcome almost every time. She doesn't catch up on sleep since she is up anyways and I can never fall asleep after the baby is up. So we're both tired and less functional for everything.

So I don't know. I am not sure what I am doing this for. It seems it always ends up with both of us being exhausted and then irrational. You know? It's not a wise choice, but one that I feel I am compelled to make anyways.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I think that most of our marriage problems stem from a lack of understanding. I think you should have your wife read your post, and this way you are being honest with her and you are letting her know that this is a serious issue for you that can't be dismissed.
> 
> What is her side of the story? Is she happy with you and the marriage?


Yes. She knows about all of this. It has been a frequent refrain, not all at once, as presented here, but none of this is new. I spoke with her tonight about the sex part and the time part. We did come to a concrete step - which I am pretty happy about - one Friday afternoon a month we're going to leave work and do something together.

Great outcome, right?

Her side of the story? I think she loves me - at least she says she does - but she is experiencing a deluge of demands- work, kids, and me. I am almost always 9th or 10th on that list- catch my drift? I understand the reality of this, but I think we still need to be more present in each others' lives than we currently are. I feel like I (or we, really) could be bumped up to maybe 4th or 5th on that list?

I don't think she is happy with the marriage per se, but she is not happy with anything. She feels like she is failing at everything. I don't think it is anything about me specifically, other than I am now just one more demand on her time. It's kind of a dark place, you know?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Stop getting up with the baby. At 1-1/2 years old, that baby should easily be sleeping through the night. Might be a few tough nights of "crying it out", but that child is plenty old enough to learn self-soothing and falling back to sleep.

A baby that age certainly doesn't need a bottle during the night. A pat on the back, turn on some soft music, and quietly leave the room.

Every time you get up with the baby you're reinforcing the behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So you guys are both full time doctors, sleep deprived, and have almost no time together and yet you imagine you should be having all kinds of sex? 

I'm curious how that works. 

And I agree with happy. A 1 1/2 year old should be sleeping through the night. 

Is there a medical reason for this or are you catering to it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

The baby is challenging, yes. we've tried several rounds of sleep training to no avail yet. I appreciate the insight, but I already know that is an issue and it is being dealt with. I don't think I am being unreasonable. I am not asking for hours of nightly sex. I also don't think it is JUST about the sex either. I would say affection is closer to the mark, but sex is part of that. there is almost no affection that I myself don't initiate. I have given a lot of space about what I need to feel loved. I go a long time, not rocking the boat, then as soon as I say anything, boom. that's it. We can't have that and I am just being a horndog. I'm rapidly losing faith in this. I want my children to see me in an affectionate, loving relationship too, you know? 

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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

and no, we're not medical doctors. nothing about our work is life and death. 

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## AmbiguousHusband (Apr 17, 2015)

TroubledInMa,

Your situation is mine. Identical. There are only a few differences I see, and based on my experience, I'd like to just offer some words of encouragement.

1. You're doing great. I feel like I have largely failed as a husband, failed as a worker, etc., but i am a good dad. It always gives me hope to hear that from others, and if what you say is true, the world needs more of you.

2. My wife went through the same thing. Two babies, weight gain, sleep deprivation, all of it. Sex was null and void. while ere are plenty of issues for your wife to deal with, try and be as understanding as you can regarding her drive. Believe me, I know how frustrating it can be, but my wife said it really well when she explained to me that it was extremely difficult, awkward and confusing to go from "a play thing" to a bottle, and then back to a play thing again.

I can't imagine how hard that must be for women.

3. Whatever you do, don't make the same stud choice I did. I got so frustrated one night (when my youngest was 2, about 4 years ago) I went to a strip club and wound up being "relieved" there. No sex, but close enough that it nearly ruined our marriage. 

You seem like a decent and honorable man, so I just want to use my mistake to help you avoid one. 

Use porn. Use toys. Pleasure yourself all you want, but remain faithful (assuming you and your wife doesn't consider masturbation cheating). It adds so much complexity to the situation.

Please understand I'm not suggesting you're the type of man who would do it, but I never thought I was either, and it's the biggest regret of my life.

I'll stay on this thread - because my situation so closely resembles yours.

God speed.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

AmbiguousHusband said:


> TroubledInMa,
> 
> Your situation is mine. Identical. There are only a few differences I see, and based on my experience, I'd like to just offer some words of encouragement.
> 
> ...


yep. I am realizing a lot of mistakes I made about being direct about my desires. I won't repeat that, ever. I was trying to be accomodating, but I was not clear enough. it did no one any favors. 

I am trying so hard to be understanding about the body issue stuff. She has always had this and now it is just accelerating. I am willing to do so much more to give her space to feel better about herself, but it doesn't matter. She shuts that down. I can't tolerate that. That is unfair. 

Cheating is unacceptable. I would straight up leave and tell her to her face why if it comes to that, but I would not go behind her back. It would be a long time to turn everything around, but would it be longer than waiting for my wife to figure it out? will I have to wait 5,10, 15, 20 years? my wife is hot and I tell her that and she doesn't believe me. I mean there is so much I want to do. I can only take so much of this before I give up, you know? my life is also precious. I want my children to see me in a loving, passionate relationship and I can only run triage on my wife's issues for so long. 

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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't have great advice. All I can say is been there, done that in your wife's shoes.

Ours are Irish Twins (11 months apart) and honestly for the first 1.5-2 years after my first was born it was just a really really dark place in our marriage. We were under so much stress, both working and barely keeping our bills paid, and dealing with two babies that did not sleep. My oldest was the world's worst sleeper. He did not sleep through the night until he was four. Four! 

We co-slept. All four of us. That does not work for everyone and I will not spout any wisdom about sleep training or the like, because honestly we tried ALL of it, and failed at ALL of it, and it was just triage with all of us doing whatever we could to get as much sleep as possible. 

You may not see the end of the tunnel with the sleep thing, but there WILL be a day when that kid doesn't wake up at night. I promise you. 

I went through a really bad time mentally, really horrible post partum depression and anxiety. I can relate to her being "up anyway" when the baby cries as I was like that too. It felt like trying to sleep next to a ticking time bomb. I was constantly on edge and my nerves were just wrecked. I honestly tried to sleep with them in a different room at first. I couldn't. I had dreams of them passing from SIDS and I needed to be close enough to hear them breathe. So they ended up in the same room. That wasn't enough either so they ended up where I could touch them, feel their breathing. 

I was depressed. I kept having visions of awful things happening to the kids while they were in my care like I was incapable of caring for them. It made me paranoid to be left alone with them. I thought everyone just went through that and it was stress. I can't tell you how many times I daydreamed about my own suicide. Hundreds of times. As if it were a regular thought that everyone has. The breaking point was when I was driving home from work one day and just decided to start driving in the wrong lane towards oncoming traffic. Narrowly missed an oncoming car. My come to God moment wasn't omg I almost killed myself, but omg I can't believe I almost killed someone else. I wanted to die but not bring someone else with me. 

Anyway has she seen a doctor? I got on meds. They didn't work right away. But I was desperate for relief. My doctor also gave me some sleeping aids temporarily to help me sleep - I could still get up to help with the baby but I didn't have that crazy anxiety that kept me awake all the time. 

And forget about sex or feeling sexy during that time. I mean I would wake up in the morning and hate my body for breathing, hate my heart for continuing to beat, hate my mind for constantly racing and never giving me a break. I just wanted to crawl somewhere and never see another human being. Forget about intimacy. 

It did get better. It does get better.

I look back now and think of how grateful I am for my husband during that time. He was so patient with me even when I knew he was at the end of his rope. He was so loving to our kids when I couldn't be. He was always 100% there helping with them when they were being difficult. I honestly don't know how he did. I don't know how he hung on. Or why he did. 

It's ok if you can't. It's ok for you to ask things of her, especially to demand that she takes care of herself. I wish my husband had been more forceful with me in that regard. Now that I am stable I have so much regret and sadness that I truly hated that period of my life and I will never get those moments with my babies again.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

That. Above
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

Thanks for understanding. I usually am eternally patient, but mine is finally running out. It apparently is not boundless, I am discovering. I feel like I have nothing left to give. I do everything I can and want to do more, you know? My main goals are to not feel angry/resentful/bitter (which is really hard), to go do interesting things on my own, and find support on my own to deal with my own emotions since my wife is in no shape to help me at all. 

I feel like I am wasting my time and emotional energy. I have no way myself to be replenished. I always thought marriage was supposed to be a source for that, but mine hasn't been for a long time. I look forward to her being gone for trips or staying late at work, etc. THAT is where my "replenishment" comes, but it mainly is just that the bleeding stops. It's a red flag if there ever was one.

She refuses to do medication. As I mentioned before, she is worried her sex drive will stop. Which is kind of ironic, I guess considering the state of that part of our relationship.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

troubledinma said:


> 9. Life is better when she is gone. She was recently out of town for 4 days on a trip, I was with the kids all by myself and we did so much. I was still sleep deprived, but it was 100% less stressful. There was no crying. We had fun. It was a peace I haven't known in years.


That says a lot.

Therapy / counseling for you will help. But it sounds like your wife needs more than just meditation. Something's not quite right - and - until she admits that - she likely won't be able to get the kind of help she needs.

What really bothers me is how this might be impacting your children. If that last statement that I quoted above is true, have you ever considered separation or divorce for the sake of your children?


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

I have considered it. Usually when I am at my most frustrated. I am not ready to walk away yet. Some of this is my fault in not being clear and direct with my feelings. I acknowledge my failure here (and with her). So I can't expect everything to turn on a dime. Proper support is just going to have to be a theme we come at again and again. I barely even know what I need (I'm always the supporter, not the supported) except that I have no support and now I finally need something.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

troubledinma said:


> I have considered it. Usually when I am at my most frustrated. I am not ready to walk away yet. Some of this is my fault in not being clear and direct with my feelings. I acknowledge my failure here (and with her). So I can't expect everything to turn on a dime. Proper support is just going to have to be a theme we come at again and again. I barely even know what I need (I'm always the supporter, not the supported) except that I have no support and now I finally need something.


Makes sense - its hard to have a rational discussion with someone who drops to their knees in dramatic agony anytime there is a disagreement. Or holds things over your head anytime you try to open up about your own needs - yet is angry that you aren't somehow closer(?).

But I think you are putting too much of this on yourself. You can't make another person happy. 

I would be tempted to deal with her "tantrums" the same way you would handle a child. Just walk away - tell her to let you know when she's calmed down enough to discuss whatever has upset her.

I have this bad image of you getting calls about your kids when they get to school - falling to their knees and screaming uncontrollably when things don't go their way.

Sorry if this sounds too negative - but I think a lot of the issues lie with your wife - and you can't "fix" another person.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

Well, most of that has happened without children present, but I am sure they know more than we think. One thing at a time though.

Part of this is removing some of the burden from myself, which being open and direct addresses. How can anything change without me doing what I should have been doing all along? The ball can clearly be in her court now.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

troubledinma said:


> Well, most of that has happened without children present, but I am sure they know more than we think. One thing at a time though.
> 
> Part of this is removing some of the burden from myself, which being open and direct addresses. How can anything change without me doing what I should have been doing all along? The ball can clearly be in her court now.


Children definitely notice more than you think. Yours are still very young, but its something to consider.

Just don't fall into that myth that you've got to "fix" yourself and do a bunch of work before the relationship can begin improving, or before she should have to start looking in the mirror too.

Good luck.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Let's break it down.

1.5 years old is too old to not sleep through the night. I know - mine didn't. My exH said she was hungry and he'd give her a bottle. I said if she was hungry she'd take a sippy cup. She shoved it away. (told ya!) So I convinced him to let her cry it out. Night after night - get up, comfort, put back down. Wait for the cry. Again, longer wait, again, even longer wait. What? Is that QUIET? It took many nights like this. There is no such thing as trying several cycles. You simply DO NOT cycle back. It might be a long process of several weeks vs. a few nights but you don't cycle in and out of it. This comes form the American Association of Pediatrics's "Birth to age 5" book.

Her meltdowns MAY come from sleep deprivation. You don't have time for your wife, you don't have time for friends. You don't own a home to upkeep so not sure where your time is going. Kids should be in bed by 7 or 8 for the 4y/o. A few rules to implement: no separate dinner for kids vs. parents. Everyone eats the same. If they don't, they won't starve, I promise. One cleans up the kitchen the other bathes. Get kids to brush teeth then in a calming bath together. Then some snuggly reading time and lights out. 4y/o comes out? Back to bed. One of the most ingenious ideas I ever saw was to add a hinge so there are four on a door and cut it in half. Lock it. That way you can still look over the bottom half to see them but the 4y/o can't come out. You can go check (no, no water. no, no more stories. no, you don't need to use the bathroom) but without getting sucked into the vortex.

TELL THEM it's mommy/daddy time. Period. "Go to sleep, it's mommy-daddy time. Good night! I love you!"

For a while that might meet pass out exhausted in each other's arms. But gradually you two can watch TV and snuggle or go to bed and have long pillow talks, sit on the porch with a glass of wine.... but once you get the kid time situated, you'll have couple time. Then you can rebuild.

As to wife's meltdowns, I would say don't engage. When you sense it's going that way, just hug her and say "let's talk about this once you've had a chance to calm down". If she needs counseling to learn coping techniques, so be it. If she won't go by herself, make a marriage counseling appointment and stress this as one of the issues.

Most topics aren't life/death or out-on-the-street financial issues since you two are OK there. So that level of drama is unwarranted but she feels what she feels. She needs to learn techniques to remind herself this isn't worth falling apart over. She has to talk herself down. Or maybe you can learn to do that.

These are rough years - I hope you can look back and laugh at how awful, exhausted, etc. you both were and be happy.


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Let's break it down.
> 
> 1.5 years old is too old to not sleep through the night. I know - mine didn't. My exH said she was hungry and he'd give her a bottle. I said if she was hungry she'd take a sippy cup. She shoved it away. (told ya!) So I convinced him to let her cry it out. Night after night - get up, comfort, put back down. Wait for the cry. Again, longer wait, again, even longer wait. What? Is that QUIET? It took many nights like this. There is no such thing as trying several cycles. You simply DO NOT cycle back. It might be a long process of several weeks vs. a few nights but you don't cycle in and out of it. This comes form the American Association of Pediatrics's "Birth to age 5" book.
> 
> ...


my view is her overreaction has always been there. The sleep deprivation accentuates it. the sleep deprivation depletes my coping as well,so I am less able roll with it. I hope this dynamic changes soon. I am much less sympathetic with this and I am no longer tolerating the behavior. I have walked away in the past, for those who suggested that, but frankly it often doesn't work or it comes back later as an expression that I "don't want to listen to her." So I need to be assertive and clear and face to face. A passive route won't work. 

The thing about my kid's sleep - usually it is from 8-4:30ish, increasingly until 5. last week was a set back. more like 3:30 (unacceptable). The kids have a great bedtime routine. they're never up later than 8:15. the older one wakes up only when the younger one does. it's also the middle of summer, which doesn't help when it is light at 5:30am. Dinner is great. we all eat the same thing. I hear you, sometimes they don't eat. oh well. they always make up for it the next day. 

I don't think sleep deprivation is the end all be all excuse. We can't wait for the opportunity to get sleep before we address these things. we could be waiting a long time.

this past week I was able to work out some changes over the summer that I feel OK about. We worked out 3 nights a week where we do something together and one afternoon a month for a "date afternoon" where we take off work and do something for us. this won't last in the Fall, but maybe it will give us space to rehabilitate. 

I am abandoning the sex stuff for now. I expressed my frustration and desires about having a better one. I expressed I cannot go on indefinitely like that. I realized I had not done that adequately before. that was my responsibility. Now I need to move on for the moment. we will revisit. I will focus on the friendship piece since for now since I do need that too. 

last night we played a game for a while, then cuddled. she actually offered sex, but was crying while doing so. It wasn't right. I actually declined and suggested that we cuddle, so we did that. she sobbed a lot with no talking, etc. I was just there.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Why was she crying last night?


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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

kag123 said:


> Why was she crying last night?


not sure. tough day for her, me being a pain in the ass. probably a lot of things. Sometimes talking is secondary. I am sure I will find out.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

troubledinma said:


> not sure. tough day for her, me being a pain in the ass. probably a lot of things. Sometimes talking is secondary. I am sure I will find out.




How were you a pain in the ass??? Did she tell you it was your fault, or did you just assume this? You aren't coming across on these posts as some insensitive *******.

Does she complain about work much? Conflicts with bosses, co-workers or customers? Complain about being treated unfairly? Has she ever threatened to quit her job? 



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## troubledinma (May 30, 2016)

It was an attempt to be lighthearted to myself. I don't seriously think I am. yes, quitting work comes up constantly. I don't see what it will accomplish. 

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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

troubledinma said:


> It was an attempt to be lighthearted to myself. I don't seriously think I am. yes, quitting work comes up constantly. I don't see what it will accomplish.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk



She has a victim's mentality. Life is so hard - but it's that way for all of us. Some of us learn to handle it. Those that can't - they throw tantrums and cry a lot. And - if they are lucky - they marry someone who will take care of them - coddle them. Agree with them when they think the world is out to get them.

Is your job stressful? Does she listen to you talk about your job when you've had a hard day? Or does it become a competition, or simply trigger her to start talking about her own job? Or maybe you quit bringing up your job years ago because she never really listens?

Have you done any research / reading on codependency?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

And how are you defining "sleep deprivation?" Based on the schedule you just described with your kids - yes it's tiring - but if they sleep from 8pm-4am you shouldn't be a walking zombie. That's a pretty good schedule.


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