# Have we let this get too far?



## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

My husband keeps distancing himself from me more and more. The harder I try to explain how I feel, the more he pulls away. Now he is practically hanging off his side of the bed trying not to snuggle me at night, and he stopped even asking for sex. 

We were having conflicts about sex, he wanted it constantly and it was just too much. I tried to tell him that he isn't loving to me and only touches me at all when he wants it and that foreplay is non-existent. So he got all passive aggressive on me and instead decided just not to bother at all anymore.

I don't want a divorce, but I feel like I am just not getting anything OUT Of this relationship anymore.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

1. Give him all the space he needs

2. Is he having an affair?

3. Talk to him about how you are feeling.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> 1. Give him all the space he needs
> 
> 2. Is he having an affair?
> 
> 3. Talk to him about how you are feeling.



1-- I have been, but nothing is better 

2-- I don't know

3-- I have, but it doesn't really change anything. He blames me for not having sex often enough. He is kind of mean to me sometimes, but when I ask if he wants to leave me, he says no. Maybe he is afraid of the financial ramifications...I don't know.


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

lisa3girls said:


> 1-- I have been, but nothing is better
> 
> 2-- I don't know
> 
> 3-- I have, but it doesn't really change anything. He blames me for not having sex often enough. He is kind of mean to me sometimes, but when I ask if he wants to leave me, he says no. Maybe he is afraid of the financial ramifications...I don't know.


1. Giving space is OK, but he may need the opposite. I know that in my situation, I would try to initiate but my W would be busy on FB, or doing something. I would try nuzzling and kissing her neck and ears and running my fingers gently though her hair, and she would put the computer down, and then basically tell me to get it over with. 

2. I know in my case I am not having an affair, but I would not jump to that conclusion unless there is some sort of proof...Does he spend a lot of time away from home?

3. He may be frustrated, and hence the mean-ness. Some people (myself included) feel some discomfort in asking for something like sex when there has been rejection, or passive-aggressive behavior from your SO during or after sex. Do you roll your eyes at him, or look disgusted with him after? Some men like to feel they have given what they got from sex, so to speak, but if you give him any signs that make him think he is the worst in bed, I wouldn't blame him for feeling that way.
Also, have you tried plain talk about what you want from sex with him? Do you have requirements? Let him know..Sometimes you have to chop down the bush and show him the axe, rather than beat around it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Did you tell him that their are some things that you need from him to make sex mutually enjoyable. Did you ask him what he would like to do, would he be interstedc in reading books to gether, taking direction from you?

When a person is passive aggressive it is good to call them on it each time. That brings the behavior out in the open. Also say haow it makes you feel. 

When talking about your lack of satisfaction with sex, talk about what you need from him don't make it about what he is not doing. If he is resistant, ask him what if anything he would like to do? Would he like to continue having lots of sex that ia not mutually satisfying. If so why would he want that. Ask in a netril tone not angry you want to know.

He may react badly at first give him time and space and let him come to you. If he does not ask him if he wants to pick up the discussion about your sex lives again. 

If he does not you and he persist in this you have the choice MC, stay and have his kind of sex and eventually and risk resenting him, have no sex, ask for a separation and eventual divorce. Do you have kids?


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Do you have kids?


Yes, 3 daughters. Ages 16, 11 and 10. We have ALOT on our plates including taking charge of my MILs affairs (she is elderly and incapacitated) and my oldest has a pervasive learning disability which makes her HARD to raise (and causes many disagreements on how). 

Hubby has been a stay at home dad, he says he is unhappy but claims he cannot get a job because of my job (but honestly he doesn't even look or try) and having to drive the kids around. I think he likes to wallow in self pity and not really do anything about it. 

The meanness sometimes extends to the girls, with some name calling and in my opinion belittling. I really don't like it and it doesn't make me any more attracted. I don't know how to get it back.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

mr.miketastic said:


> 1. Giving space is OK, but he may need the opposite. I know that in my situation, I would try to initiate but my W would be busy on FB, or doing something. I would try nuzzling and kissing her neck and ears and running my fingers gently though her hair, and she would put the computer down, and then basically tell me to get it over with.
> 
> 2. I know in my case I am not having an affair, but I would not jump to that conclusion unless there is some sort of proof...Does he spend a lot of time away from home?
> 
> ...


Well, I used to have sex with him even if I didn't really want to because I knew it was important to him. But I guess it wasn't good enough. Sometimes I would be really into it, but sometimes I wouldn't but I would do it to please him. My only requirement is affection-- without just wanting sex.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

mr.miketastic said:


> 1. Giving space is OK, but he may need the opposite. I know that in my situation, I would try to initiate but my W would be busy on FB, or doing something. I would try nuzzling and kissing her neck and ears and running my fingers gently though her hair, and she would put the computer down, and then basically tell me to get it over with.
> 
> 2. I know in my case I am not having an affair, but I would not jump to that conclusion unless there is some sort of proof...Does he spend a lot of time away from home?
> 
> ...


You failed to mention one extremely important thing, she is not having sex because he is not pleasing her. You may not realize this but that is one reason women stop having sex, but, like her husband, some men don't realize it as a problem. They expect the wife to give them sex because they are entitled. They should both expect mutually satisfying sex. 

If she has tried to change this and he is resistant, then she should stop having sex with him and talk to him again. If things don't change, she can chose to leave and he can try and get someone to put up with him. 

If she has made no attempt to talk to him then it is wrong to cut him off without giving him a chance to change. 

Should she have sex to make him happy and forgo her happiness. Why do you think she should do that?


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

I didn't really cut him off...I was trying to be truthful with him and he reacted immaturely. I told him I don't enjoy sex as often as he does, and that actually, if he wasn't pushing it on me so much, I might WANT it more....I also said I needed some affection to go along with it. So he just got pissy and said fine I won't ask anymore.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

lisa3girls said:


> I didn't really cut him off...I was trying to be truthful with him and he reacted immaturely. I told him I don't enjoy sex as often as he does, and that actually, if he wasn't pushing it on me so much, I might WANT it more....I also said I needed some affection to go along with it. So he just got pissy and said fine I won't ask anymore.


Call him on it, tell him that you feel he is not responding to a simple request for the need for affection. Ask him why, let him know how that makes you feel.

Ask him why he feels you should give him what he wants and he cannot give you the simple act of affection. Tell him you feel that he is the only one getting anything out of sex, and you need more to feel that he loves and cares about you.

If he is still pissy suggest MC. what ever you do don't have sex with him and make him think that his needs are more important.


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> You failed to mention one extremely important thing, she is not having sex because he is not pleasing her. You may not realize this but that is one reason women stop having sex, but, like her husband, some men don't realize it as a problem. They expect the wife to give them sex because they are entitled. They should both expect mutually satisfying sex.
> 
> If she has tried to change this and he is resistant, then she should stop having sex with him and talk to him again. If things don't change, she can chose to leave and he can try and get someone to put up with him.
> 
> ...


Can you show me in my post where I said she was required to have sex with him? or that I feel he, or I am entitled to it? It's not an entitlement, but it damn sure is an expectation set before the exchange of vows. Yes indeed, if he is not pleasing her then that is a problem, but that is a problem that both of them should work together to fix; It takes two to tango.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> The harder I try to explain how I feel, the more he pulls away.


It's not what you said, clearly it's how you said it. I'm not accusing you I'm pointing out a fact. He obviously feels rejected and devastated by your critique of possibly the only way he feels he can express love to you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> It's not what you said, clearly it's how you said it. I'm not accusing you I'm pointing out a fact. He obviously feels rejected and devastated by your critique of possibly the only way he feels he can express love to you.


This issue is a sensitive one for me so forgive me if I am misinterpreting what you and Mr. M are saying. There seems to be a hint of a standard applied to women that is not applied to men - we feel loved too when we have loving sex. Why do we have to tip around to get what we need, men make their needs clear. Can woman not do the same. 

How do you know how she said it and how does his rather childish reaction help the negotiations. Is this her problem or is it his problem? How should she have phrased a request for affection. It seems a fairly innocuous request. If she asked for a kidney that would be something else again. 

What you seem to be saying or what I interpret from your post is that he feels love through sex, that's a given he is a man that how men are. But she has somehow wronged him because she stopped having what was unsatisfactory sex for her but made him feel loved. 

It seems that the default is that any woman who denies sex to her husband is wrong to do so. There are circumstances where a woman is justified in stopping, if she has 1.) tried to solve the problem repeatedly 2.) continued having sex while trying to get a change to let him know she loves and accepts 3.) and he has refused her request for loving sex. 

Chances are they would still be having sex if he gave her a simple loving caress. How much more passive - aggressive can you get than to give up sex rather that give a caress!

This situation can be solved but I think you need a third party. Having sex with him will not solve both their problems. 

I am trying to understand why it seem the general consensus that he is being wronged by his wife. She has done everything that women are asked to do by men. Please share how you see that she is at fault?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It's not about being wronged. Everyone has some aspect of their psyche that's a scared fragile child. No one asks to be stabbed in the heart no matter that they ask you to 'tell them the truth' (whatever that is). You have to be sensitive to that. Not everyone can hear The Truth the way you tell it to them. Maybe it just comes down to tact. 

For example I was out a few weeks ago and someone I know vaguely looked at how I was dressed and quipped "You look like you're color blind!" Well I happen to BE color blind. Green, blue, yellow and gray are almost the same thing to me. Still I don't like being made fun of that way.

See?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> It's not about being wronged. Everyone has some aspect of their psyche that's a scared fragile child. No one asks to be stabbed in the heart no matter that they ask you to 'tell them the truth' (whatever that is). You have to be sensitive to that. Not everyone can hear The Truth the way you tell it to them. Maybe it just comes down to tact.
> 
> For example I was out a few weeks ago and someone I know vaguely looked at how I was dressed and quipped "You look like you're color blind!" Well I happen to BE color blind. Green, blue, yellow and gray are almost the same thing to me. Still I don't like being made fun of that way.
> 
> See?


Nope I don't really. Do you mean she stabbed him in the heart when she stopped having what he knew was unsatisfactory sex for her, or before she stopped when she was having sex and asking for what she needed or was it a one - two. Is ignoring her request for love long before she stopped sex come under the category of a fatal wound as well or is one more grevoius than another? 

I believe I understand what you are saying. You are saying that he is being mean because he feels unloved. He is devastated by the lack of sex and he is insulted that she asked him in a very bad way for affection. I agree with the first part but not with tye 2nd His behavior, while dysfunctional, is understandable because he is suffering a fatal one two shot. I am sympathetic to his feelings but I also realize that he is in a position of his own making. He was given a choice to change and he opted not to do so. Actions have consequences she set a boundary for her psychological well being and he decided to cross it. 

He also has the choice to recognize his error and approach her like an adult and talk. He is going to lose his wife and family if he keeps on. He may end up here with many other men and women who realize too late that they had a chance to fix things and they blew it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

mr.miketastic said:


> Can you show me in my post where I said she was required to have sex with him? or that I feel he, or I am entitled to it? It's not an entitlement, but it damn sure is an expectation set before the exchange of vows. Yes indeed, if he is not pleasing her then that is a problem, but that is a problem that both of them should work together to fix; It takes two to tango.


Your situation seems totally different from this lady, your wife is ignoring your needs and is nasty like she doing you some kind of favor when she has sex. Wrong wrong wrong. I cannot understand why a woman do that to good men. You sound like a good man, nothing like this man. 

If you read her post she did continue to have sex with him and she did ask him for what she needed. He did not give her what she needed. I'll bet anything that if your wife asked you for more affection to make her feel loved you would be all over it in a minuite. Not this guy. 

Your in a position that is difficult and intractable. In addition it is not of your making. You never had a chance to change what has happen because your wife has not told you why she is acting like a beoch. Not this guy he had a chance several from the sounds of it well before the sex stopped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

You assume too much when you assume people know themselves that well. This kingdom of the confused right here should be proof enough that's nonsense.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Lisa.. your lack of libido could be due to the fact that he's mean. Women tie in our emotions to sex.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Your right Runs . I can figure everyone one else out except me. I guess it is being too close to the action can't back up far enough to get the full picture. Oh well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> This issue is a sensitive one for me so forgive me if I am misinterpreting what you and Mr. M are saying. There seems to be a hint of a standard applied to women that is not applied to men - we feel loved too when we have loving sex. Why do we have to tip around to get what we need, men make their needs clear. Can woman not do the same.


I completely understand what you are saying. I am sorry if I came off as a demanding person...That's one thing I am not.

If I may, I will illustrate a little using my own situation. It took me years to finally figure it out actually. My wife, instead of telling me the truth, will come up with some sort of excuse why she doesn't get into it with me. I take the statements at face value and try to change. She then comes up with something else after that, so it turns into this endless dance of her excuses and my attempts at fixing. At some point, you start to get the idea that no matter what you do to change, it still will not be what she wanted.
Let's say that when she does deign to share her favors with you. When she does, it turn into this farce with her telling you to hurry up and get it over with, despite you doing the things she told you she likes. Do you think a man will really feel good after something like that?
No, they won't. 
On the other side, yes, if the man is not making any attempt to try and seduce his wife, then I understand the hesitancy, and dislike for sex.
I would say if you like sex, don't get married.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I am sympathetic to his feelings but I also realize that he is in a position of his own making. He was given a choice to change and he opted not to do so. Actions have consequences she set a boundary for her psychological well being and he decided to cross it.
> 
> He also has the choice to recognize his error and approach her like an adult and talk. He is going to lose his wife and family if he keeps on. He may end up here with many other men and women who realize too late that they had a chance to fix things and they blew it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, yes, I asked for some change. What you have to understand is I wasn't getting any real affection...oh he'd wait, for example until I was changing in the bedroom and grab my nipples claiming how he loved them (but it was rough, and not 'affection' and it didn't feel good, as a matter of fact it hurt). He would expose himself and tell me he was ready (I guess that was supposed to be foreplay). You know, I actually went along for a while. But when I tried to have a conversation about MY needs, I got a snippy immature, well FINE then I won't ask anymore, you let me KNOW when you want sex. I was SHUT DOWN.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Lisa.. your lack of libido could be due to the fact that he's mean. Women tie in our emotions to sex.



It definitely doesn't help. It is hard to want to be with someone who is mean to you. I have told him he is mean to me, but he still jabs at me. I mean, even when I get my hair done (new color, new cut) he won't even say anything unless he hates it, which he almost always does. But he is Mr. Sensitive and I am supposed to walk on egg shells when he can be outright mean to me.


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## Orion (Jul 17, 2010)

lisa3girls,

I feel bad that you are being treated as you are. I am a man and love sex but your hubby seems to be a bit obsessed and possibly likes the "power and control" of getting sex on command more than the actual sex itself. Your culpability in this is that you let this go on when you weren't into how he was actiing towards you. This is not an indictment of you because I am sure that you were trying to figure out how to respond. You are correct to establish some boundaries now. I am sure that you feel groped and clawed at when he's trying to "get you in the mood". You should tell him that (and more) and suggest marriage counseling. If he is not willing to go, then you need to decide if you can live the rest of your life feeling how he makes you feel when he wants sex from you. Whatever you do, do not have sex with him until you can get your mind around what YOU want to do. Good luck.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Orion said:


> lisa3girls,
> 
> I am sure that you feel groped and clawed at when he's trying to "get you in the mood". .


That is exactly how I feel.


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## Orion (Jul 17, 2010)

You mentioned that his meanness extends to your daughters as well at times. Does he have a negative view of women in general? How was he in his past relationships with women? I am trying to see if his meanness is towards all women in general.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Orion said:


> You mentioned that his meanness extends to your daughters as well at times. Does he have a negative view of women in general? How was he in his past relationships with women? I am trying to see if his meanness is towards all women in general.


I don't know. His father was a big jerk. Really mean spirited and often said really offensive things. Now he is starting to get like that... he can be fun and really great with them too, I mean there are times he does such NICE things that even I wouldn't do...taking the teen to concerts, buying them fun treats (ice cream sundaes etc), but then when he is trying to correct something (that I agree needs correcting) he is just nasty about it-- like calling my older a pig when she is chewing and talking, or calling my middle a chunk when she is asking for the millionth time for more cookies. It is all in the approach. With me it is just 'digs' like the cat-- it is like he is trying to hurt me.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> he is just nasty about it-- like calling my older a pig when she is chewing and talking, or calling my middle a chunk when she is asking for the millionth time for more cookies. It is all in the approach. With me it is just 'digs' like the cat-- it is like he is trying to hurt me.


Not ok. He is mentally abusive.


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## hippygirl39 (Apr 14, 2011)

I have been in a similar postion and we are currently separated. I felt that every time my husband touched me, he made it sexual i.e. a hug but the hand would stray to the bum, or a kiss that he would try and turn into a proper kiss. For years, I was trying to make him understand that I wanted him to love me for who I was and not just for sex. I withdrew physically from him because I didn't want it all to be about sex and felt I was under pressure because he wanted it and I didn't. He was unpleasant with me, quite controlling (wouldn't let me go away for a weekend with friends). Often seemed uninterested in me unless he thought there was a chance of sex. Didn't seem to like talking to me and I always felt he talked down to me. When I tried to talk to him about our problems, he would first of all explode, then eventually calm down but the conversation would always end up being about the lack of sex. My thoughts were that if we got the relationship right, the sex would follow. He generally tried to be nice to me for a while and it would even get to the stage where I would see he was making an effort but then he got fed up of waiting for the sex he thought would come immediately and within 10 days would start being short with me again.
I totally understand where you are coming from and am currently in a similar dilemma myself about whether to take him back as he is insisting he can change (where have we heard that before?). If you still love him it's worth trying to work it through with counselling, but if the love has gone, you have to think about whether you want to be with this person for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE and whether you can be happy with him. Only you will know the answer to that one but I know for sure that if my children were older, I wouldn't be having this dilemma and I would not be even considering staying with him as I deep down don't think we are really compatible with regards to what we want out of marriage. Good luck whatever you decide.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

That is perfectly fair. And I think you said it in a tactful manner.

How often was he initiating?



lisa3girls said:


> I didn't really cut him off...I was trying to be truthful with him and he reacted immaturely. I told him I don't enjoy sex as often as he does, and that actually, if he wasn't pushing it on me so much, I might WANT it more....I also said I needed some affection to go along with it. So he just got pissy and said fine I won't ask anymore.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Doesn't anybody here see that he's throwing a tantrum? A big old 5 year old tantrum. He's all I'm going to take my toys and go home. I say let him. He sounds like a jerk and since he's the one that wants the sex he can darn well learn how to be nice or he ain't getting any. This to me is kind of my version of manning up. 

On a side note I do think you could have said it better. "Honey you know what I wish you'd do....and then tell him" To flat out say you don't enjoy sex that much is a blow to his ego. When he grabbed you rough you say something sweetly like "ouch gentle sweetie my little body can't take your strong hands". When he flashed you the comment could have been "oh let me tell you what I'd love for you to do now and give him directions..." Catch more flies with honey...kwim?


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