# Daughter is tearing our family apart, and now I am paying the price



## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

Back in 1997, I had my first and only child (Daughter), and a few months after that my boyfriend (Her father) proposed and we got married.

A couple of years later, He becomes unbearably abusive and violent, and he used to beat me, and when I told him that I want a divorce he got really mad at me and told (Accused) me that I am requesting divorce not because he is aggressive but because I am having an affair with another man... I never cheated on him and I never had any kind of any emotional nor physical relationships with anyone, He then apologize and promised that he will change.

We remain together and I must say that he has changed and becomes a much better respectful husband and a father. His work requires him to travel quite often outside the country, thus, most of the time I am alone and I used to that.

Years passed by, Our daughter grow up doing mistakes just like any other teenager till one day her cousin (My niece) who is with her in the same university came to me telling me that there is a guy who my daughter used to go out with then she left him for another guy is now harassing/threatening my daughter and that he will expose her if she doesn't get back to him together. My daughter has never mentioned that she is seeing anyone and she has never slept outside the house never ever - Her dad's rules.

The exact next day, My niece has brought a bunch of videos and nude pics of my daughter and that guy told my niece that if my daughter doesn't comeback to him, he will post everything on the Internet.

I have seen things I wish I have never seen - That guy was filming most of their intimate encounters and making her talk horrible dirty things while doing everything... very sick and disgusting things that I cannot even imagine why on earth a man would want his girlfriend to be talking on the phone with her father while she is pleasuring him and he is filming everything.

Stupid me, My husband got his hands on the computer and saw everything. He initially has gone mad screaming and shouting. But, He kicked our daughter from the house and now he is once again accusing me that I was cheating from the past and that this is not his daughter because his own blood and flesh would never do such a thing to him.

It has been 7 months now, He left the house, He lives on his own, doesn't talk to me nor our daughter at all regardless how many times we tried to reach him, he doesn't pay anything for us nor bills or anything at all. On top of that he said he will not file for a divorce because I am a cheater and my daughter is *****, so, We do not deserve anything.

I tried to talk to him that I have never cheated on him and that it is his daughter and what she did is unforgivable and that I need and want him - I feel that he truly hate us and I really feel sad how our life has changed.

Is there anything I can do to fix my marriage which has been affected by something I have never done in the first place?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Learner said:


> Is there anything I can do to fix my marriage which has been affected by something I have never done in the first place?


Yes. 

You can file.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well that's a bit of a mess.

You are wrong that what you daughter did is unforgivable. Of course she can be forgiven by you and her father. And you both should forgive her. Clearly your daughter was traumatized by the emotional abuse that you husband visited up you. So she met an abusive man who abused her. The abuse is different from what your husband did, but it's still abuse. 

Your daughter is in serious need of help. Please get her to a therapist so she can figure out why she allowed herself to be abused like that and so that she learns to protect herself from it ever happening again.

Now about the stalking ex-boyfriend. Why exactly is the cousin the carrier of news from the abusive ex-bf? Is the cousin a friend of this ex-bf? I would worry about why she's involved at all.

You can help your daughter learn to not allow herself to be abused by you, HER MOTHER, stepping up to the plate and helping her handling this abusive ex-bf. She's 19 right? How old was she in these videos? Were any of them taken when she was under aged? If so, her ex-bf make child pornography and should pay the price for that. How old is this guy anyway?

Is there any written communication between the ex-bf and your daughter of him threatening her, threatening to put videos on the web, or threatening in any way at all? Are there any texts, emails, or voice mails? 

Get her cousin to write out a statement of the threats that the ex-bf told her and get it notarized.

Now he's threatening to publish videos of her online. Well in many states that is now illegal. Please check out the laws where you live to find out if there are laws that cover this. 

Then you need to help your daughter get in touch with the police and get a restraining order against this guy. Part of that order has to be that he cannot publish any videos of her anywhere. That by doing this he's breaking to restraining order.

Also look into stalking laws where you live. Your 19 year old daughter is being stalked. She needs for you to help her stand up to this guy and protect herself.

As for your husband. He's not much of a father, is he? So he saw the videos. Get over it already. He should have stopped with the first few frames that he saw. Why on earth would a father (and a mother) actually watch more than a frame or two of that?

Your husband has left you. Clearly he was looking for an excuse and found one that makes him able to justify leaving. He's gone. He's not coming back. So you need to get on with your life.

He says that he's not filing for divorce because you don't deserve anything. Well, it's not his choice. Why are you allowing him to accuse you of something that you have never done and debase you by saying that you do not deserve anything? Why? Do you know that he does not have to file for divorce? He clearly thinks that you will put up with anything that he does... that you will not act on your own and protect yourself.

So... go get an attorney and file for divorce. Show your husband that he's full of crap and that yes, you not only deserve 50% off all assets accrued in the marriage, but you might also deserve some alimony and more. Also, if he's a high earner, ask that the divorce includes that he has to pay his daughter's college until she's graduated. And if you want, even offer a DNA test to prove that she's his kid.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> *Get her cousin to write out a statement of the threats that the ex-bf told her and get it notarized.*
> 
> Now he's threatening to publish videos of her online. Well in many states that is now illegal. Please check out the laws where you live to find out if there are laws that cover this.
> 
> Then you need to help your daughter get in touch with the police and get a restraining order against this guy. Part of that order has to be that he cannot publish any videos of her anywhere. That by doing this he's breaking to restraining order.


If you get a notarized letter, send a copy to the dean where he went to college! Universities have to be extremely proactive these days regarding sexual abuse and in your case *sexual extortion*.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Why are you blaming your daughter in any of this? She needs your protection right now. What exBF is doing is illegal pretty much everywhere in the West. Talk to her and suggest she go to the police.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

As a parent, I'm floored that you place all the blame for this on your daughter. It makes me question if the situation is even real.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Wow, give your daughter a break she is a kid. Kids do stupid stuff and don't always make good decisions. She had no experience with someone like this predator. She needs some therapy and love right now not to be shamed. I am sure she feels enough shame for a whole lifetime. She also was extorted and abused by a really horribly human being and is probably beyond humiliated. 

As far as your husband goes give him some time. That has got to suck to see his daughter like that.

What is needed right now is empathy for everyone, as well as charges against the scumbag ex.

Remember just because everything has gone to crap right now doesn't mean it will forever.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Why are you blaming your daughter in any of this? She needs your protection right now. What exBF is doing is illegal pretty much everywhere in the West. Talk to her and suggest she go to the police.





OnTheRocks said:


> As a parent, I'm floored that you place all the blame for this on your daughter. It makes me question if the situation is even real.


Absolutely

Get your priorities straight. Your daughter needs you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner,

I hope that you do not feel that the responses here are harsh against you. They are not really. They are honest reactions to what you wrote.

Everyone here is more than willing to give you some support through all that you need to do for your daughter and with your husband.

Do these replies give you a different perspective than what you have had up to now? What do you think?


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

My English is not good. So, Maybe I didn't explain everything very well.

I do not blame my daughter, I am very disappointed because of what she did. Probably I am the one to blame because I failed to raise her to be a decent girl that respects herself and her family, that is my fault because she used to be with me 80% of time as her father was always abroad working and providing for us.

I am very sad as a mother because of my daughter choices and decisions. She lies about serious things. She is mature, and she was not drunk - actually she doesn't drink at all. When I sat with her and actually I unconditionally slapped her she said that she was not forced to do anything she didn't want to do and she enjoyed every second of it, and if times goes back she will re-do it again, and hearing that hurts.

Her father kicked her that night only and she slept at my sister house because she picker her u, and the following day I brought her home. So, She is still with me in the house.

My daughter has been living normally and enjoying her life with her new boyfriend as nothing happens. In other words she doesn't care - she doesn't even talk with me sincerely about anything. That makes me very sad too of how this kind of person becomes.

My brother met the ex-bf shortly after the problem and told him that he will not live another day if he posted anything, Surprisingly the ex-bf apologized that he said that he would never do such a thing he was just very angry how my daughter has been cheating on him with the other guy (her current bf) and she hurt him - so he wanted to get back to her.He admits that what he did is not justifiable and he knows the legal consequences - We never heard from him.

I have not posted her to ask help for my daughter - She is fine and she doesn't care !

I am her asking if I can help myself or my husband. I know his personality he gets angry and hurt easily and whatever he says is just words... Honestly I feel the same way he feels and how our daughter who we did everything for her is rewarding us.

My husband doesn't have any affairs - he is actually sad and lonely...Our friends said that about him, he just don't want to see or talk with us because apparently he wasted his life on ungrateful daughter and a wife who spoiled his only child. 

I don't want a divorce - This is not why I am here for.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Which country are you in, @Learner?

I am only asking as advice that we can give will vary country to country.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

IMFarAboveRubies and MattMatt, We live in Austria.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

What would you consider a successful resolution to this problem? What is your ultimate goal? Would just getting your husband back in the house be good enough? Do you need a certain level of respect from him or just his presence? Does he have to accept his daughter, even if grudgingly?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Learner said:


> IMFarAboveRubies and MattMatt, We live in Austria.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge_porn#Europe

Not sure but a Revenge Porn law might exist in Austria, so the nasty young man may have broken the law.

I really do not know what to say about your husband.

He needs to step up to be the man you and your daughter needs.

So sorry you and your daughter are where you are.

Have you arranged counselling for her?

PS

Es tut uns Leid, dass mein Wissen über Ihre Sprache ist fast Null! 

(From Google Translate!)


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Learner, I do not know was the revenge porn laws in Austria, but I would get the police involved, your husband is just being a jerk, but your daughter is what I am truly worried for. You need to move on this quickly.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

I really don't know how to explain this - My daughter is fine and enjoy her life 112%.

I and her father are not fine.

That young man (her ex) is a just an idiot who made empty threats and my daughter knew he wouldn't dare to post anything and actually she was never worried nor concerned. He didn't post anything, they were just stupid words coming out of his mouth because my daughter left him for another guy. In fact that guy apologized and he said his words and whatever his threats were are very wrong.... This was OVER long time ago - Case closed and no problems at all !!! I hope I made this point clear enough !

The real problem here is me and my husband. 

Cletus, You asked: What would you consider a successful resolution to this problem? I posted on this forum looking if there is any...Ideally I wish if my husband comes back and you and him do not split, Even if he doesn't forgive our daughter. I wish that him and I be together again..


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Learner, counseling for you and your husband.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You forgave him for his abuse once then he called his daughter a shameful name, accused you again of cheating, stopped paying for anything, kicked her out of the house and then left. Ask yourself why you want this guy back. I know it is early in the thread and there may be more to the story, but it must be amazing because he has no redeemable qualities in my eyes.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Learner said:


> Even if he doesn't forgive our daughter. I
> wish that him and I be together again..


Why? He doesn't sound like anyone I would want any where near me or my daughter. 

Surely you can do better. Or failing that, surely you can manage on your own. You have no power here. He's already left, and I doubt anything you say would entice him to come back. You should probably be grateful for the favor he's given you, even if you don't feel that way today. Do you have any means of supporting yourself without him?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Learner said:


> When I sat with her and actually I unconditionally slapped her she said that she was not forced to do anything she didn't want to do and she enjoyed every second of it, and if times goes back she will re-do it again, and hearing that hurts.
> 
> My daughter has been living normally and enjoying her life with her new boyfriend as nothing happens. In other words she doesn't care - she doesn't even talk with me sincerely about anything. That makes me very sad too of how this kind of person becomes.


Well, what did you expect? You slapped her. If I were your daughter, I would stop telling you the truth, too. YOU are unsafe. 

I told my DD25 growing up that she could tell me anything, that I would never judge her and I would never stop loving her. She was skeptical, but came to see that I was telling the truth - I would never judge her. I might not be happy with her choices sometimes, but that is not HER. 

Today, she tells me everything. I am the ONE safe person in her whole life that she knows she can tell anything to.

Maybe if you work really hard, and apologize, you can earn her trust back.

And by the way, she probably learned to be with abusive males from living with her father. You may want to consider getting her to therapy to learn to value herself better so she doesn't feel she has to do such crude things to keep a boy. And DO involve the authorities on this.

As for your husband, if you want him back, I hope that you first set a boundary that he is not allowed to harm your daughter before you'd even consider letting him back home. You owe HER your allegiance, not him. You can't MAKE him come back. But you can make it clear that you're willing to consider it, but only if he goes to therapy with you. Him seeing you defend yourself will help him respect you more and possibly want you more. But I suspect he may just be happy now being single, honestly.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Have you tried to communicate to your husband? If not directly then through his family or a close mutual friend. He must be made to understand that your daughter's problems are not your fault alone, he was also her parent. He is deflecting blame apparently in an immature attempt to relieve his own guilt. He is no doubt hurting and injured by your daughter's attitude in all of this.

The best you can do is to attempt communication and try to reason him into understanding that you are not the enemy but rather a willing ally. It appears to me he is distancing himself from the problem and, in his mind, from the associated responsibility of a wild daughter. Perhaps there is a trusted friend or family member that can help him to understand that running from a problem is not a solution. He needs to be man enough to deal with the problem and not try to make it disappear by refusing to deal with it, that will not prove successful.

Your daughter is a product of our current culture and it happens even with the best parental oversight. You are but one woman, spewing virtue and decency while all the rest of humanity is pulling her in another direction. It is a difficult bias to overcome and doing it alone, 80% of the time, makes it even more so. Your husband may think he is distancing himself from the problem but in reality he appears weak and passive to all who know about the situation. Handling a problem by losing one's temper and removing oneself from the situation does not prove strength nor resolve but rather shows his unwillingness to actually deal with it. Perhaps your daughter is too much like her father.

Again, communication is your only real tool to try to reach him. If he is completely unreasonable then I fear there is not much else you can do. I regret you finding yourself in this situation and wish you good fortune.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Your H sounds like an opinionated jerk.

Are you two religious at all? If so, might be worth a visit to your pastor for you and your H.

I will echo that this sounds like something where a little counseling might get you guys back on the same page again.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

I come from a semi-wealthy family where we have farms. So, Money is not the issue and it has never been. When I wrote he stopped contributing, that was a bad sign not because I need the money but because I felt he is so hurt and he no longer cares about us.

The first years of our life together were rough and he was going through a lot and since more than a decade and a half, he promised that he will change and he regrets the way he mistreated me, He kept his words and he never got physical with me. He made more than any man can do to me and my daughter happy. He took us to 76 countries around the world, he showered us with gifts and love, he used to travel frequently but he calls us multiple times a day. He worshiped his daughter. Everyone from the family and friends knows and sees in his eyes how much he loves us.

I fall in love with this man who has made sincere efforts to change and he changed to be the man who I love and admire. He is the one who made us feel happy and secure.

I firmly believe that he didn't see all the content, He just saw a couple of nude pics and thought they were photoshoped, But when he saw one of the video and it was real he started screaming... I seen tears in his eyes that I have not seen in ages since his mother passed away and he didn't kick or attacked or even talked to our daughter he just didn't wanna see her and he wants her out of his sight that moment, so I called my sister to pick her up.... 

I don't know if he blames me or not...Through family members he said that the most important person in his life (His daughter) who gave everything for her has no love nor respect for him and that just kills him.

I wish I can find reasons to hate him and be happy that he left us... I cannot because there is none. Same family members multiple times said that he doesn't speak ill about me and he admitted that I have no hand in what happened... But he feels that all his work, love, life, dreams, and wishes that he had and would have had are crushed and burned because our daughter turned to be like that. He sees there is no point of being a family ever again....

When I sat with my daughter to talk about how he behavior and irresponsible actions have hurt here closest person who love her the most me the mother and her father, and that she must go there to father personally to apologize - she didn't even allow me to finish and kept interrupting me that she is a grown free woman and she does in her private life what she wants and she has done nothing wrong and she doesn't care... she provoked me with her words...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Learner said:


> I come from a semi-wealthy family where we have farms. So, Money is not the issue and it has never been. When I wrote he stopped contributing, that was a bad sign not because I need the money but because I felt he is so hurt and he no longer cares about us.
> 
> The first years of our life together were rough and he was going through a lot and since more than a decade and a half, he promised that he will change and he regrets the way he mistreated me, He kept his words and he never got physical with me. He made more than any man can do to me and my daughter happy. He took us to 76 countries around the world, he showered us with gifts and love, he used to travel frequently but he calls us multiple times a day. He worshiped his daughter. Everyone from the family and friends knows and sees in his eyes how much he loves us.
> 
> ...


You know from your own experiences that your husband is or has been abusive.

And yet there seems to be a feeling that you are trying to, somehow, blame your daughter for the failure of your marriage to a man who is or has been, abusive?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your daughter is right on some level. She is an adult. By law, she can do whatever she wants when it comes to having sex with her boyfriend.

She is young and like a lot of young people she made a mistake and allowed a scumbag boyfriend video the sex that they had. It is the boyfriend, not your daughter who you and your husband should be angry with. You seem to accept his excuse for what he did. What he did, giving the videos to her parents, is horrible. He, has done more damage to your family than your daughter has done. But you seem to accept his excuse, an excuse that he probably only said because her father was confronting him.

You say that your daughter is being defiant basically. Of course she is. You have physically and verbally attacked her. So now she is on the defensive. That's why she seems to be ok, because she's not now going to let you see or know what is going on with her.

Be very careful of this ex-bf. Just because he said some silly words to your husband, it does not mean that he told your husband the truth. THe fact that the ex-bf went out of his way to her your daughter by making sure that her parents saw the videos means that he's a sick, dangerous person. There is a good chance that he's not done with his stalking of her.

I know that you do not want a divorce. How long has your husband been gone? How much longer will you wait to see if he is going to act like a mature adult/husband and come home?

The only thing that I think you can do now is to write him a letter and stand up for yourself. To tell him that he too raised your daughter. Her behavior and choices have more to do with today's social norms than with either of you. Either he is your husband and will come home and repair your relationship or you are going to need to move on. And you love him and don't want to move on . You want him in your life. Ask him if the only reason he was with you is for your daughter? Or did/does he love you too? if so why does he abandon you?

Maybe remind him of good things. Let him know the good things you said about him above.

If that does not get him back, I don't think he's ever coming back.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

What, exactly, are you upset about? Surely it isn't premarital sex as you admitted to partaking yourselves.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

It is very difficult for us as parents to accept actions that are directly against the way you have raised them. (Religious standards, personal standards etc). It hurts us deeply. We are indeed disappointed. We try to protect them from heartbreak and keep them on a moral code we believe is acceptable.

That being said...they do grow up and make their own choices. We are still their parents. They need our love, support and guidance. 

You are in a very bad place now because she doesn't feel like she can confide in you or come to you about any issue that you won't automatically approve of. Those feelings are established over an extended period of time. You will need to work hard to change that if you want to gain her trust. 

Your husband is being a big ostrich. He runs away from his family and sticks his head in the sand when you have encountered probably the biggest challenge of your lives? Unless there is a lot more to this story, that makes zero sense. He needs to be a husband and a father. That requires him to be involved in his family, being present. He runs away and accepts no contact from you both? That is a very severe, unrational reaction. I'm not sure why you want to welcome him back. Very, very bizarre.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If this is the biggest challenge in their lives, they a blessed beyond belief.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

I suck at writing in my mother tongue, let alone trying to explain this delicate matter in another language. However, Because of my poor writing, I will try to dumb it down as points in order for it to hopefully be more comprehensible.

- My husband:

a) He is a known man, loved and respected by the entire community we live in because of his graciousness and helping others.

b) Though I come from a wealthy family, My husband has never ever made me contribute to anything in the house at all. He used to tell me your money is yours and my money is ours. The house, furniture, 2 cars (Family care & our daughter car) are all bought and paid fully by him. In other words, We live under his roof and enjoying his money.

Only water, electricity and minor fees that used to be auto-payment on his account - It seems that he deleted those payment, anyways, the total of such bills is hardly a couple of hundred euros which is next to nothing.

c) As a husband and a father he was always there for us when we needed and wanted him, and yes his work takes him from us but I and my daughter were fine with that. Truth to be told he offered to leave his career and find another job - I didn't want him to do that.

d) My husband said it loud and clear before this incident that he is fine that our daughter have relationships (Regardless if it includes sex or not), that is her life and her choices. The only thing he warns about was to be safe from STIs and having a child who she might not be ready for, of course he had other rule that she doesn't sleep outside the house.

e) When the family talked about this matter, My husband said that our daughter having sex and videotaping herself, these are private things and it is her life to do what she wants even if he as a father wishes that she makes better choices.

f) During the same family talk, My husband said that what truly broke and shattered his from the inside out are:

1) How his daughter the person he loves unconditionally the most has no respect nor love for him, Calling him on the phone to have a conversation with him and while he was abroad asking her if she needs or wants anything and that he loves her while she is having sex. 

He told that she can have sex with whomever and whenever she wants, But, Involving him in this despicable way is something cannot forget, because that shows how his daughter doesn't value him.

2) We tried to convince him that our daughter is young, immature, and making stupid choices and all this crap which I don't personally beleive, But he also knew that his daughter never admitted what she did was a mistake and she didn't even bother to go to her dad to apologize or visit him. She just called a couple of times and only because me and other family members pushed her and she did that unwillingly. 

Only these two things have caused him pain and sadness than he cannot get over it as he says.

Will you continue to bash and keep on insulting my husband? As most of you have been doing all along?


- Myself:

a) I don't have problem with my daughter having sex. So, Can we get this out of the way?

b) I am very sad how our daughter has been using her dad in sick and insulting way.

c) When I talked with my daughter about it, She has never admitted that what she did (Calling her father in the middle of the act) is wrong... She was just parroting more or less your words .... Yes all of your words how she is free woman and can do whatever she wants.

When the discussion was heats up and tried to reason with her that she cannot and has no right to call her parent and that is unacceptable, She kept interrupting me and that she actually done it multiple times with her father because she enjoys it and made her and her guy happy and she would never hesitate repeating that again if she gets the chance too. Only then I slapped her.

d) A few days later as a mother, I talked with her again and tried to explain to her that her dad loves her more than anything in the world and I told her that we love her no matter what, and that she must go to see her father in person. She didn't want to and she said that this is her personality and who she is love it or leave it, and that we have no right to be angry and that these videos were supposed to be a part of her private life.

e) My husband and I have been through a lot, and he was always there by our side. This time he is hurt and I feel it because I know he is very sensitive person. I want him back, because he is someone who I don't want to live without. No man has done and gave a fraction of what my husband did to us, I literally heard these words multiple times from multiple wives how they envy me how a good husband I have.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

@Learner, you can't blame people for giving you their replies as they did. You did not give all the information initially. Now that you feel like you are not getting the replies you want, you are getting upset. People can only give you replies based on what information you give out. 

Now that we know there is more to this, then, we can certainly see things from your H's perspective. 

What your D did was sick. Calling her father while she is having sex or performing sex is sick. Trying to include her father in her sexual activities without his knowledge is sick. She needs help. Try getting help for your daughter to figure why she would do something like this.

Your H has every right to feel disgusted. Who wants to find out that their beloved child would involve them in their sexual activities and to this level. He did what he taught was right by putting her out of the house. Why would he want her in the house with him when she has violated his love as her father.

I would feel disgusted with you too because you can't seem to realize how nasty your D's actions were. She is not a two year old girl. She is a grown woman with no concept of how wrong her actions were. That in itself speaks to what sort of person she is. 

Get help for your D. Work on your relationship with your H without your D being around. Maybe have her stay with family or friends. BE on the side of your H. Let him know how you understand his pain. Try seeing this from his POV. Give him time to heal.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> What you experienced was a nightmare, from my perspective. It seems that many people on this forum wouldn't be phased by seeing their child having pornographic sex, but like you, I would be traumatized and deeply saddened to see my child degrade him/herself with casual sex. If the child were in love, or wanting a committed relationship, I would understand it. But it seems your daughter is acting like a wh*re and she is proud of it. Very sad.


You are making a judgement of the daughter that you have no knowledge of. Why do you think it was casual sex? Why do you think that the daughter was not looking for love and a committed relationship with the bf who took the videos? Was it really pornographic sex? Or was it just sex with the guy she was in love with? A lot of people apparently video some of their sexual encounters with their SO. I don’t understand doing it, but a lot of people do. They certainly don’t expect that the videos will be given to their parents or show up on the internet. It’s naïve to think that no one else will ever see the videos, but most 19 year olds are naïve.

Exactly what is pornographic sex anyway? If there were videos of you having sex with your husband, that would be pornographic sex. 

It is most likely that the girl was in love and thought that this was a committed relationship. But we now know that this is an abusive guy. Any guy who gives videos of sex with his gf (ex or current) to her parents to humiliate her is a seriously abusive guy. I guess she got smart and left the guy. Good for her.

On the topic of her parents seeing the videos. The parents had no business looking at the videos. As soon as they saw what the videos were, they should be turned it off and deleted the videos. The only reason that I’m not too harsh on Learner and her husband for viewing what they did view is that while caught up in the moment, I can understand that someone might watch the videos of their daughter without much thought except shock. But the parents should have never violated their daughter’s privacy that way. 

Why is it that some of us don’t think that the daughter having sex with her boyfriend is not that big of a deal? It’s because that’s the norm in our society. People today have sex out of marriage with their SO. The only real issue here are the videos. And it’s the bf, not the girl, who distributed them. It’s the parents to viewed them when they should never have stooped to that.

Why did I say that if this is the worst thing that ever happens to them, they are blessed? Well I can think of a lot worse… how about their daughter dying? Being killed? Becoming seriously disabled? 

There are people here on this forum who have lost children, whose children were victims of horrible crimes like a girl raped repeatedly from ages 6 to 12 by an adult man that the family trusted. Or a son who goes off to war and returns with a traumatic head injury that renders him unable to function in life. I could go on and on with things much worse that happen to people. This incident is so blown out of proportion that I wonder what the OP and her husband would handle it if something bad, really bad ever happened to them and/or their daughter.

The OP engaged in premarital sex. The OP’s daughter engaged in premarital sex. The difference was that the daughter was videoed and they viewed it. Just imagine if the OP’s parents saw videos of her having premarital sex. Would that then make her a terrible person? I think not.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner,

In your newest post you clarified quite a bit.

It sounds like the only issue that your husband has is that your daughter called him while she was having sex because she liked doing that. 

I can see how that is a transgression of parent and child relationship. I can understand your husband and you being upset about it.

I wonder if your daughter is not clear that this is the main (and maybe only) thing that you and your husband are upset about. I do agree that your daughter needs to go to counseling. Were it my daughter and she did not understand the HUGE transgression it is to include her father in her sex I would take her to a counselor to help us discuss this one point.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

It's been several months and multiple people family, friends, and professionals talked with her about this.

Her words were: She has some twisted/kinky/wild desires and enjoyed that. She didn't mean harm to her father as all this is supposed to be her secrete/private life, Thus, Since she sees no harms was intended, She is not wrong and no one has right to be angry at her - This is who she is and who she will always be. 

Honestly, I am OK with my daughter's decisions, Because I know that life will teach her lessons and she will regret some day how she treated us. We gave her everything and if she wants to be who she is let it be... Someday she will learn...


For the 57th times I repeat, I am not her to seek help for my daughter - I did my part and it up to her. For the 57th times, I want to reiterate that I am posting her because I need help to get my husband back.
@brooklynAnn, I tried. He says that there is no point of being a family ever again, because the most precious fruit the family (Meaning our daughter) turned to be like this and that all his dreams and what we have worked for have gone... so what's the point.

I truly love him and I want to be with him. I thought of pushing myself into him and move into his new apartment, But I cannot leave my daughter alone.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> It's been several months and multiple people family, friends, and professionals talked with her about this.
> 
> Her words were: She has some twisted/kinky/wild desires and enjoyed that. She didn't mean harm to her father as all this is supposed to be her secrete/private life, Thus, Since she sees no harms was intended, She is not wrong and no one has right to be angry at her - This is who she is and who she will always be.
> 
> Honestly, I am OK with my daughter's decisions, Because I know that life will teach her lessons and she will regret some day how she treated us. We gave her everything and if she wants to be who she is let it be... Someday she will learn...


Your posts have been largely about your daughter so it's only natural the people would concentrate on that. 



Learner said:


> For the 57th times I repeat, I am not her to seek help for my daughter - I did my part and it up to her. For the 57th times, I want to reiterate that I am posting her because I need help to get my husband back.
> 
> @brooklynAnn, I tried. He says that there is no point of being a family ever again, because the most precious fruit the family (Meaning our daughter) turned to be like this and that all his dreams and what we have worked for have gone... so what's the point.
> 
> I truly love him and I want to be with him. I thought of pushing myself into him and move into his new apartment, But I cannot leave my daughter alone.


Several people, myself included gave you input on things that you can do to try to get your husband to come back.

If you have already done those things, then there is not a lot more that you can do except to give him time. 

Or, you could do something to shock him. Yes, shocking him might just wake him up that he's about to really lose you. That he's not the only one with the power in this relationship. And that is for you to file for divorce. I know, you don't want to file for divorce. But it just might be that until you do, he thinks it's all about him. He thinks he's punishing you and he has control over the situation.

It's called destabilizing the situation. Changing the dynamics. It very often works. 

If you file for divorce, you can always cancel the divorce if he comes back. Until the day that the judge signs the final divorce decree the divorce can be cancelled. And there is even re-marriage after a divorce.

It just might shock him into realizing what he has to lose.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> It's been several months and multiple people family, friends, and professionals talked with her about this.


Who was it that spread your daughter's person life to multiple family members and friends?

What professionals talked to her about this? How did she end up going to professionals about it?


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

As I wrote previously that I don't want a divorce - This is not why I am here for.

He said he will not file for divorce because there is no reason to, and that he will not put any more efforts or do anything for us again. He also mentioned it clearly and actually to my face that if I file for a divorce he will gladly sign all the papers and that he doesn't care that I can even take the house and everything else - I am having pretty much everything anyways...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Have you asked him straight up what it would take to get him to come back?

If the answer is "nothing", then you should probably believe him. If the question has not been asked, then ask it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> As I wrote previously that I don't want a divorce - This is not why I am here for.
> 
> He said he will not file for divorce because there is no reason to, and that he will not put any more efforts or do anything for us again. He also mentioned it clearly and actually to my face that if I file for a divorce he will gladly sign all the papers and that he doesn't care that I can even take the house and everything else - I am having pretty much everything anyways...


I know that you said that you don't want a divorce. But you might have no real choice in this. He's left you. So far he's not made any indication that he plans to return to your marriage.

The way things are going, you could be married for the rest of your life with a husband who will not talk to you, who blames you and who will never return. Are you ok with this? 

Earlier you said that he said that he will not file for divorce because you are at fault and you do no deserve anything.

As for him saying that he will gladly sign the papers and give you everything, surely you know that some people will say things simply because they feel that they have the upper hand. It's easy for him to say that he will just sign the papers if you file because he proablby believes that you would never file. 

The suggesting of filing to destabilize things is just that, only a suggestion. One that might have a very good chance of working because it's exactly what he thinks you will not do.

But if you don't want to file, that's fine. You can try other things.

1) You can just go on as you are and just leave him to his own devices. He might some day come back. In the mean time, you will most likely eventually fall out of love with him. That is what happens with long separations. At that point you might want to file for divorce because your love for him is gone.

2) You can go on a letter writing campaign and just write him, telling him how you feel about him. Do this for as long as you still love him. Or until he tells you to stop. Or until he returns. 

or maybe there is something else that you can think of.

You are most likely to get his attention if you do something that he does not expect you to do. 

I think that you are looking for something magic that will make thing all good again. I get it. You just want things back to normal. But it's not looking good for that.

So what are you going to do? What plan do you have?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

It feels like your story is changing...you start off talking very badly about your husband and disgusted by your daughter. Now you are trying to backpedal and say your husband is such a wonderful man, and that what your daughter did is not that big of a deal.

This presents a challenge to us trying to give you ideas.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

There is something very off about this story. I agree with Matt the abuse part needs to be addressed.

Good luck.

EDITED. On reflection, the OP may not be ready for deeper insight. I've kept my original post and can repost it later if appropriate.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's funny, sometimes people come here for what THEY perceive as the major issue in their life, and ask for help on it. 

But what happens is that those of us reading the story see all the red flags of all the OTHER problems going on in the family. And we very often don't WANT to give you advice as to how to get what you want, when what you want may be HARMFUL. Or may be masking bigger issues.

Bottom line, you all three have bigger issues than whether your husband stays married to you. So some of us aren't going to waste much time trying to help you get what YOU want, when what you NEED is something else altogether.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Learner said:


> When I sat with my daughter to talk about how he behavior and irresponsible actions have hurt here closest person who love her the most me the mother and her father, and that she must go there to father personally to apologize - she didn't even allow me to finish and kept interrupting me that she is a grown free woman and she does in her private life what she wants and she has done nothing wrong and she doesn't care... she provoked me with her words...


To her, it's no big deal. This is a sign of the times (well, any era, really). We live in an age where it's almost the norm for people to Snapchat nude pictures of themselves, record themselves having sex, etc. and not generally care who sees it.

We have to remember that, to the 25 and under crowd, sex has never been a taboo subject. Kids at 10, 11, 12 are able to access things online in seconds. They know more about sex (not necessarily sexuality, however) at 12 than I did at 18, and I wasn't exactly sheltered.

All that to say - to your daughter, this is no big deal. It's what everyone does. Nude pictures, sex videos - all part of the social and sexual norm of that generation. Our generation can't put a stop to it, any better than our parents could put a stop to whatever it was that WE did and they didn't understand or agree with. Things that made THEM feel like they failed at parenting.

As far as your husband is concerned, he's clearly traumatized by what he saw - what father wouldn't? Girls grow up being a father's little princess. We men put a halo on our mothers and our daughters. They're not supposed to do things like this. But they do, and it's part of parenting to accept that our children will do things we don't like, understand, or abhor. This is one of them.

I've had to accept that my stepson and his girlfriend share pictures of themselves. I was furious when I first found out. I did NOT need to see the things I saw. Now that they're a little older, I've accepted it, reluctantly. I still don't like it, but I've also come to terms with the fact that it's what that generation does, and it's likely something I'd have done at that age, had we had the technology. They are still minors, though, so I hammer home my concerns about that every chance I get, but it falls on deaf ears. Parents have to pick their battles, and this is one that I admit defeat in. At the very least, he/they keep their faces out of the pictures they send each other. Wasn't the case prior. Ugh. Trauma indeed.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

@alexm, Please, If you re-read some of my posts, you will see clearly that I have literally stated mutliple times over and over time and again that what hurts us is NOT the sex nor even filming it !!! have repeated that so many times and I don't know what can I do or say to make reader understand that the issue here is NOT the sex nor filming it !!!!

The issue here is that she was calling her dad in the middle of the act, and violating his love and involving him in despicable and lewd ways, and to make things worse, She doesn't want to admit that was wrong nor talk with her father about it.

Please people, Read my text before lecturing me about how the world has change and that premarital sex is normal.

@larry.gray, You asked: "What, exactly, are you upset about?"

- I am upset and sad why our daughter has been calling her father while she was having sex. I repeat, NOT the premarital sex !

- I know that my husband is sensetive and what his daughter did to him hurts him deeply in his soul especially that he really worships her. But even though I understand his pain I am upset and sad why he left to be alone torturing himself. I want him back.

Did that answer your question?

@turnera, Why are you bothering yourself posting into one's thread telling them you are not willing to help. Besides, "you all three have bigger issues" would you care to elaborate? Or, You don't wanna help explaining your words too? 

@EleGirl, Thanks for your advice, But, I will not file for a divorce because this whole destabilize things strategy doesn't work especially with my husband, Besides, I would never do something that I personally don't believe in. The other suggestion about the letters is something of course I am considering though.

On the other hand @EleGirl, You wrote "you will most likely eventually fall out of love with him", It astonishing how you make such a strong statements and conclusions in generalized manners as you know all the human beings and have studied the mankind nature. No disrespect, But, I don't know what kind of men you have been with or what kind of loving relationships you have had or still having, But, I can assure you that as long as I am breathing, I will always be in love with my husband, He is the man I have, still, and will always wholeheartedly love, respect, and owe so much too.

@Spicy, I am not sure I understood you or even you understood me. My husband is indeed a wonderful man, I started with some history and I clearly wrote that he has changed to be the better - what is that you don't understand? Also, "what your daughter did is not that big of a deal." now you are putting words that I have not said in my mouth.... huh? Where in any of my posts I wrote that? I consider what my daughter did (I mean here calling her dad in the middle of the act - NOT the sex nor even the filming) an atrociously disrespect and dreadful crime against her dad. Don't claim things about me that I have not said because that is absurdly obscene.

@Cletus, I am very afraid of asking this question in a direct straightforward explicit manners... If the answer was "Nothing" it will kill me, and yes call me stupid but I would rather continue living the rest of my life with a tiny hope that maybe someday.... Cletus, I am here seeking for help from people experience... I am not looking for unnecessary confrontations and putting ends to things which will result in destroying my life. Do you and others understand me? 

@MattMatt and you too @sapientia?
Cannot you be more specific in your comments? Make it worthwhile at least. If you really want to help, Ask specific questions. Do not throw sweeping and vague statements.

Getting back to you @MattMatt, Or, Do you prefer to be called Jesus himself? Because it seems to me that you don't beleive humans do mistakes and realize their mistakes and learn from them and change... don't you?

Anyhow, Since you brought it up and you with others including @Spicy are pushing me to reveal what I meant by "he WAS/USED TO BE abusive in the PAST more that 17 years ago" I will explain this part though it has no connection to my current problem, But, I will do my best providing all the info.

Well, Back in the days when we started dating I fall for him and I felt he is the ONE who I want to marry and spend my life with, and I still feel the exact same way till now and forever. So, I wanted to strengthen our relationship and take it to the next level, In other words I wanted to make it official, and the best way for me to do so was to get pregnant and have his child. 

Sure enough, Since then he becomes mine and as a result he proposed to me, and I married him and moved into his house. 

Shortly after giving birth, I must admit that I wasn't an easy co-operative wife for my husband. At my parents' home I used to get and have whatever I wish, But, Things were different at my husband's house due to his income then. Admittedly I never shut up about it, I was always the *****ing and moaning about how he cannot afford things for me and how my brothers are providing for their wives unlike him. I made his life hell with my nagging. At that time I made my husband work two jobs, yet, I was never satisfied and always complaining and he put up with my attitude because he wants to keep our marriage, However, There were times he says he had enough and he explodes and physically pushing me away or putting his hands on my mouth to shush me up and yes he was agressive in that. When I look back at how I was I know that was wrong behavior from my side driving him beyond his limits, and yes I repeat he MUST NOT have put his hands on me because that is very wrong and I threaten him with divorce!

Until one day my father came to our house while my husband was outside, and told me that he has been noticing that my husband is under pressure and that we are not very happy couple as we used to be, and he mentioned that he talked with my husband about it and he told him that he knows that I am a demanding person and he offered him that he can take money whenever he wants and as much as we need.

My father told me that he was impressed how decent my husband was by telling him that he loves me and our daughter so much that he will do anything for us. I felt reassured then that my husband really loves us, and I decided to change my attitude with him to test him, and thankfully sure enough my husband has noticed how I stopped complaining and nagging and that I become an understanding wife.

I swear since that day he has never puts his hands on me ever again, and multiple times he sincerely apologized and regrets how he was acting so mad towards me, and he changed to be the loving husband I wish.

Did that satisfies and answer your curiosity about his past?


Lastly and most importantly, I am not here to lock horns with any of you, and you know this. I am here seeking for help and advice, and of course I am here to provide all the details you may need.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Learner. You changed your story after a number of us were gracious to grant you our precious free time to help you.

Had you given us the full information we could have helped you.

But you didn't do that.

But now you are chiding us and name calling us (and no, I do not prefer to be called Jesus. So thank you for that example of everyday blasphemy) because you didn't give us the full details.

Maybe when you are willing to give us the entire, full story (which I think we are still yet to see?) you can come back and perhaps you will find some people here who might be willing to offer you more help.

So long as you do not throw it back into their faces. Again.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

If your husband and marriage were so great, this problem with your daughter would not cause him to leave your marriage. I agree with the others that your story has changed multitudinous times, and many details are being excluded.

The truly creepy part (to me) is that your niece presented you with the videos of your daughter and you actually viewed them! And not only did you view them, you left them on the computer for your husband to stumble across.

I really wonder if your story is even legit..


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

Why this attitude @MattMatt? Just like @turnera wasting you precious time posting here to tell me that you don't want to help.

Once again, As I wrote previously that I am not her to argue...I am to learn if there is anything I could do to help myself and my husband.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Is this possibly a troll? High school IS out for summer.

How it is that someone so new to the forum understands the @[name] callout feature?

@Learner, I can certainly expand on my post. In case this is for real (I'm considering), I'm not sure based on your last posts, you are ready for what some of us think is really going on.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't understand putting a spouse before a child. 

I love my husband dearly. I have great respect and admiration for him.

But if he were to leave me over something like this, I would let him go. My focus would be on my child and helping her heal. 

Your husband seems incredibly prideful and immature. And you seem to enable him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sapientia said:


> Is this possibly a troll? High school IS out for summer.
> 
> How it is that someone so new to the forum understands the @[name] callout feature?
> 
> @Learner,* I can certainly expand on my post. In case this is for real (I'm considering), I'm not sure based on your last posts, you are ready for what some of us think is really going on.*


I think you should say it, sapi, very clearly and explicitly. 

Her defense of her husband is disturbing.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

OP, you don't like the advice from any of us. We are all wrong and only you are right. We now have a glimpse of what your husband and daughter deal with from you everyday. Yet you are so puzzled why your relationships are strained....

You want us to ignore most of what you wrote and give you a magic pill to make him come back. 

I don't have the ability to do either.

Good luck....


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

She admits to getting pregnant to get the guy to marry her? The stuff about him getting two jobs to keep her happy? Her daddy issues? Long essays here on TAM? 17 years, and only one child?

This is very off.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

jld said:


> I think you should say it, sapi, very clearly and explicitly.
> 
> Her defense of her husband is disturbing.


I'm still considering. My hypothesis may be right, but the persons involved may be wrong. It might not be the husband, but rather the OP. Not sure what to if so.

@Learner, have you been to a counsellor to discuss your issues?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Learner, based on your posts, you've only got one move left. You'll need to pick your daughter or your husband, but you can't keep both in your life. Who will you choose? 

Sent from mobile using Tapatalk


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Oh, and why the heck is this thread in Coping With Infidelity? 

Sent from mobile using Tapatalk


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

@jld,

"I don't understand putting a spouse before a child." You couldn't be more wrong !

Re-read my posts you see clearly that, As much as I wish to get back to my husband and I thought of moving into his apartment and I have a strong feeling that might work, But, I didn't do it, Because I will not leave my daughter alone.... Do you see to whom I have given the priority?

Please, Read and re-read if necessary before you deduce wrongful things...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Learner said:


> @ [MENTION=38163]Cletus, I am very afraid of asking this question in a direct straightforward explicit manners... If the answer was "Nothing" it will kill me, and yes call me stupid but I would rather continue living the rest of my life with a tiny hope that maybe someday.... Cletus, I am here seeking for help from people experience... I am not looking for unnecessary confrontations and putting ends to things which will result in destroying my life. Do you and others understand me?


Then I cannot help you. The confrontation has already happened when a spouse moves out for seven months. 

Good luck.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

Call me a skeptic but I think the OP is making up stories. She's been registered since 2012 and never posted prior to this thread. So she's been lurking for a very long time. Interested but never participating?

Aside from all the story changes mentioned by the other posters, she lives alone with her daughter in Austria most of the time because her husband travels all the time yet he took her to 76 countries around the world. (76 countries? If its more than 10 why not just say MANY countries? Who counts?) The awkward interaction between all the family members reminds me of a bad Persian movie.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Learner said:


> Why this attitude @MattMatt? Just like @turnera wasting you precious time posting here to tell me that you don't want to help.
> 
> Once again, As I wrote previously that I am not her to argue...I am to learn if there is anything I could do to help myself and my husband.


I have helped you.

I have helped you again by pointing out by coming here with an attitude you might make people consider carefully if they should help you again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Now it transpires that the daughter sent explicit material of her having sex with a lover to her father.

Why on *earth* would a daughter even think about sending such material to her father? :scratchhead:

I can't *possibly* think of any reason why a daughter might do something like this. :biggrinangelA:

_Oh, Matt, yes you can..._ :FIREdevil:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> @jld,
> 
> "I don't understand putting a spouse before a child." You couldn't be more wrong !
> 
> ...


Would your husband be ok with you moving into his apartment? Have you asked him?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner,

I'm confused about this. Could you please clarify.

Did you daughter only call your husband while she was having sex?

Or did your daughter also send explicit material about her having sex to her father? If so, what?


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

@EleGirl "Would your husband be ok with you moving into his apartment? Have you asked him?"
I have not asked, But I was thinking of doing it even without asking him, But as I wrote earlier that I cannot because I cannot leave my daughter alone, not even at friends or family. I am all she has and she is all I have.

As for the other questions, Matt Mr. precious time seem to be having so much of it and he's posting lies on my thread.

So, Answering your questions: "Did you daughter only call your husband while she was having sex?" Yes.

"did your daughter also send explicit material about her having sex to her father?" No. That's Matt's lies.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> @EleGirl "Would your husband be ok with you moving into his apartment? Have you asked him?"
> I have not asked, But I was thinking of doing it even without asking him, But as I wrote earlier that I cannot because I cannot leave my daughter alone, not even at friends or family. I am all she has and she is all I have.
> 
> As for the other questions, Matt Mr. precious time seem to be having so much of it and he's posting lies on my thread.
> ...


Let's be clear here. Matt is one of the most level headed posters here on TAM.

It is very easy with threads like this one where the details keep morphing for a person to misconstrue what has been said and get confused about the facts as presented.

I don't see what Matt said a as lie. He clearly misunderstood something you said. That's why I asked the question, to straighten out what I saw as a misunderstanding on his part.

Attacking the people who are actually trying to be helpful is not a good approach.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I don't think this is the place for you to get advice because you don't want it. Your story keeps changing. If your D is an adult then let her be one and go to your husband. I have a feeling your husband leaving you has more to do with you and just using your daughter as the excuse. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Learner said:


> @EleGirl "Would your husband be ok with you moving into his apartment? Have you asked him?"
> I have not asked, But I was thinking of doing it even without asking him, But as I wrote earlier that I cannot because I cannot leave my daughter alone, not even at friends or family. I am all she has and she is all I have.
> 
> As for the other questions, Matt Mr. precious time seem to be having so much of it and he's posting lies on my thread.
> ...


Oh, I am sorry. I was in error. However, I was not lying. 

I apologise. 

I am sorry that I found it difficult to negotiate the shifting quicksands that your story has morphed into.

She only *phoned* her father whilst she was having sex. And did not send sexually explicit material to her father. 

Because that makes the whole darn thing so much better. Doesn't it?

Splitting hairs will not fix your problems.

Attacking people on TAM who are trying to help you will also not fix your problems.

They really won't.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Learner said:


> @alexm, Please, If you re-read some of my posts, you will see clearly that I have literally stated mutliple times over and over time and again that what hurts us is NOT the sex nor even filming it !!! have repeated that so many times and I don't know what can I do or say to make reader understand that the issue here is NOT the sex nor filming it !!!!


And if you read what I posted, you will understand that the blame for this is put on HIM, as well as her.

Furthermore, you spoke of being a failure as a parent, and my reply was meant to tell you that you were/are not.

What she did was despicable, in the eyes of her father, but not to you. You "get" it. He does not. What her father did in return was despicable in YOUR eyes. And this is the part YOU do not "get" - how he could do such a thing.

I understand your English is not 'sehr gut', but I'm on your side, and attempting to answer the question of why your husband did what he did.

Verstehen?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

My take would be that your daughter's actions were the final straw for your husband. Your high maintenance pushed him to the breaking point. You should leave him alone and pray that he forgets how *****y you were, and decides he misses you.
To answer your repeated question, In the end there is absolutely nothing you can do to MAKE him come back to you, so just hope he changes his mind and move on with your life with your daughter.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

OP is quite sure that none of us can read.

The problem for her is, we can ALL read, and we can call Bullsh!t when we read it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> She only *phoned* her father whilst she was having sex. And did not send sexual explicit material to her father.
> 
> Because that makes the whole darn thing so much better. Doesn't it?


My understanding is that the father had no clue this was going on until he watched the videos of his daughter having sex. These are the videos that her ex-bf provided to her parents.

As a father Matt, would you watch videos of your daughter having sex?

Had the OP and her husband respect their daughter's privacy and not watched those videos, there would be now problem that they knew of. This is something that bothers me.

It also bothers me that the daughter was comfortable with bringing her father into her sex life (now that this out of the bag since the parents watched the videos). Why would a girl feel comfortable brining her father into her sex life? That's the question that seems to be on some people's minds.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm trying to figure out wth this thread has to do with infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> I'm trying to figure out wth this thread has to do with infidelity.


Good point. I'm moving it to general.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

1. You're a troll. (most likely)

2. In case 1. isn't true: High probability your daughter was [sexually] abused. 

3. That call and vid, if it actually happened, is definitely revenge of some kind, for something, on someone.

4. *I'm still trying to decide if the abuser was your H, or you.*

5. You/your family can afford counselling. Get some.

6. You asked for details, now you have them. Don't attack the messenger and don't immediately deny. You claim you want new insight about what happened. If there was any funny stuff going on with your daughter growing up you *know* it in your gut. Every mother knows.

I hope this helps, with either your summer boredom (in which case visit the Off Topic threads and stop making stuff up re: serious topics), -- or finding out the truth so you can either heal or get help.

Best,
Sapi


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

I am sorry for lashing out and attacking you, I really don't mean to be mean. I am just angry with myself, my daughter, and my husband. However, Whatever mode I am in,I have no right to chide. 

I apologise. 

Is there anything that I can do, details to elucidate, or questions to answer so that you would help me?

Or, Are you asking me to leave? Many of you have said it


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Learner said:


> I am sorry for lashing out and attacking you, I really don't mean to be mean. I am just angry with myself, my daughter, and my husband. However, Whatever mode I am in,I have no right to chide.
> 
> I apologise.
> 
> ...


Leave the marriage.:slap:


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Learner said:


> I am sorry for lashing out and attacking you, I really don't mean to be mean. I am just angry with myself, my daughter, and my husband. However, Whatever mode I am in,I have no right to chide.
> 
> I apologise.
> 
> ...


Don't leave -- the thread. Particularly if there is any truth to what we fear about your story. Because if there is, then you are excused for any lashing out, at least from me. There is nothing more terrifying than seeing one's child do something like this, and trying to figure out Why?.

If anyone continues to gaslight you, the mods will help. @EleGirl is watching this thread.

Be well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> I am sorry for lashing out and attacking you, I really don't mean to be mean. I am just angry with myself, my daughter, and my husband. However, Whatever mode I am in,I have no right to chide.
> 
> I apologise.
> 
> ...


No, you are not being asked to leave.

You are being asked to be less argumentative and attacking of those trying to help you.

The thing is that you are asking for advice on how to get your husband back. The fact is that you might never get him back because that's up to him. 

But it was suggested that you write him some letters. You can do that. If he will talk to you in person you can try that too. But that's all you can do. That and give him time. But how much time are you willing to wait for his return when he shows no inclination to do so?

But many of us here seem to think that the problem in our family is much larger than you getting your husband to come back. That's a big part of the issue on this thread. There is more here it would seem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> Or, Are you asking me to leave? Many of you have said it


Ohhhh.... you mean ask you to leave your marriage, not this thread.... guess I missed that one.

Yes, your husband has already left you. Plus his reaction of leaving you because of something your daughter did is rather extreme.

But you will do what you will do.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Look, your daughter is 100% right not to trust or talk to you in an open manner. You sided with her father, you told countless other family members and professionals about her sex acts, you slapped her and you still blame her for the sex acts while supporting her father.


Here's my advice. File for Divorce. He told you in no uncertain terms he is going to do what he wants, but he won't file. So, I disagree with Cletus in asking for another more decisive explanation. I disagree with anyone who suggests asking him what to do to fix things. He has expressly told you what he wants, on multiple occasions, he just isn't going to do the work.

So, unless you want an open marriage which is completely one sided, it is time to file the paperwork yourself.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Look, your daughter is 100% right not to trust or talk to you in an open manner. You sided with her father, you told countless other family members and professionals about her sex acts, you slapped her and *you still blame her for the sex acts while supporting her father.*


And for this reason, and likely many others, she should never speak to you again.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

What really bothers me is the thread title.

*Daughter is tearing our family apart, and now I am paying the price. *

Again, if this were my daughter, I'd really be asking WHY she did those things? Acting out like that doesn't happen for no reason. To my original point that something is very wrong with this whole story.

And yes, divorce is the only sane option. Maybe by doing so you can repair whatever trust is broken between you and your child.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Learner said:


> @turnera, Why are you bothering yourself posting into one's thread telling them you are not willing to help. Besides, "you all three have bigger issues" would you care to elaborate? Or, You don't wanna help explaining your words too?


I'll be happy to, despite the rudeness. 

You stayed with man who abused you, your daughter probably witnessed it, or at least the aftermath of it, and it has become part of who she is. It has skewed her vision of what life is like. She grows up with a mom AND a dad who expect strict obedience and very conservative views, probably without ever discussing with her what SHE thought about it. She saw a mom who put her own dignity aside by staying with a man who would hurt her, so she's confused on what a woman's role IS. She's at the age where she's trying to figure out what she believes in and stands for and she tries rebelling, even rubbing it in her dad's face, probably just to get a reaction (that she expects) out of you guys. She's basically 'selling' herself to men because she's confused and that's not giving her any satisfaction, nor is the responses of her parents, one of whom in an exceedingly theatrical and overdramatic fashion storms out of her life without a single word and the other who, frankly is more concerned about herself and her own happiness than her daughter's. And the daughter is once again being taught by example that the man rules, the woman is subservient (unless she rebels), and it's the woman's role to pine away for a man who is currently not showing ANY respect to his own family (maybe because they are females?)

So, like I said, I GET that all you want is your husband back. But the whole situation is symptomatic of a dysfunctional three-way relationship where none of you are getting what you want or should get out of it. Unless of course, your husband was just looking for an excuse to get out and be single again and this came in handy.

We've given you advice on what to do to try to get him back. But the one thing that takes posters here SO long to understand is that YOU CAN'T CHANGE HIM. You can't make him want you back. You can try to make that choice as appealing as possible, but you still can't make him come back. To do that, you'd have to find out why he really left in the first place. Honor? Shame? Loneliness? Dissatisfaction? Wanting more sex? Until you figure out WHY, you can't address it. I would start there.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

><)))#"> ~j


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

Sapi,

"High probability your daughter was [sexually] abused" and "the abuser was your H, or you"

Accusing us of such a thing...This is really the unthinkable in itself... But,Since I promised to be more civilized in the discussion, I will answer you.

- My husband the man who is now being accused as a pedophile sexual predator molesting his only beloved child is working in high ranking position for the state where he spent his entire career fighting child trafficking not just in Austria but all over the world. He is well-known in the field and many countries all over the world (Including the US) have relied on his expertise fighting and dismantling these gangs.

He spent and still spending his life fighting for this noble cause which is protecting children from any harm, and he is so proud in serving this cause.

Sapi, Even if I am not his wife and I known him for ages, accusing a man which such a background is really too much !

- Me, The mother the sexual abuser.... How can I defend myself and prove my innocence to you Sapi... Do you want me to swear on my child life or on the bible or I am not sure what to do? That is a hard one...

Please Sapi, Ask me real questions and I will be glad to answer and clarify. Please do not misunderstand me, I really don't mean to be "argumentative" but I am trying to answer the questions and clarify more details hoping that I could reach somewhere.

@EleGirl
"You are being asked to be less argumentative" I will ...But don't you see what others are writing? Don't you see @turnera who knows nothing about my life writing

"She grows up with a mom AND a dad who expect strict obedience and very conservative views, probably without ever discussing with her what SHE thought about it. She saw a mom who put her own dignity aside by staying with a man who would hurt her,"

She is talking like she was living with us... She ignored what I wrote that we traveled the world and how my husband provides everything we need and he never had a rule except no sleeping outside the house.... She ignored all that and started saying things from her imagination... On top of that, It is not just her imagination is so poor, so is her math, Because if she bothers to count she would know that my child was hardly a year or two when my husband was aggressive with me, yet once again, she kept laying and stating nonsense, then she switched talking about my daughter "She's basically 'selling' herself to men"!!! My daughter who she only have been with two guys> her ex and her current bf...... and you call that is help? These are pure insults 

Seriously @EleGirl ... You guide me how to respond to such things?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> Seriously @EleGirl ... You guide me how to respond to such things?


On an open forum like TAM, people will speak their mind about what they believe they get from a person’s posts. If you think their take on things is wrong, you can politely explain why or you can just ignore their post.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> It also bothers me that the daughter was comfortable with bringing her father into her sex life (now that this out of the bag since the parents watched the videos). Why would a girl feel comfortable brining her father into her sex life? That's the question that seems to be on some people's minds.


When I was her age, I was dating a manipulative guy. Like he'd tell me that I wasn't mature enough for him, so he was giving me 6 months to see if I could become a good enough girlfriend. Stuff like that. He had me doing sex stuff I can't even think about now, because he had that much control over me and because my family had raised me to think of sex as shameful; so I 'had to' do it anyway to keep him, so by that time, it was like I was one of those people where they held the gun that someone else used to kill someone, so the killer would say 'well, you're in on it now, you can never tell the truth.' 

And I'm pretty sure that if he had told me to phone my dad during sex, I probably would have done it, AND pretended it way my idea, just to please the guy.

I have no idea if that's how your daughter is, OP, but it's one possibility.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> My understanding is that the father had no clue this was going on until he watched the videos of his daughter having sex. These are the videos that her ex-bf provided to her parents.
> 
> As a father Matt, would you watch videos of your daughter having sex?
> 
> ...


I am not a father. Well, maybe I am, but that's not relevant to this thread.

But I fear I would have done something to him that he would not have forgotten in a hurry.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> "She grows up with a mom AND a dad who expect strict obedience and very conservative views, probably without ever discussing with her what SHE thought about it. She saw a mom who put her own dignity aside by staying with a man who would hurt her,"
> 
> She is talking like she was living with us... She ignored what I wrote that we traveled the world and how my husband provides everything we need and he never had a rule except no sleeping outside the house.... She ignored all that and started saying things from her imagination... On top of that, It is not just her imagination is so poor, so is her math, Because if she bothers to count she would know that my child was hardly a year or two when my husband was aggressive with me, yet once again,


Your first few posts gave the impression that you and your husband were upset that your daughter had a boyfriend and had sex at all. It took talking to you for a while for you to write out exactly what you are and are not concerned about. 

Some posters are more likely to believe the first things a person writes and not the further clarifications that you gave.

You might want to go back are re-read all of your posts critically. You should be able to see that you gave a very strong impression what is characterized in the above quote. 

And let’s face it, you cannot expect people to read through your posts and do the math. Be very explicit with your writing.

Another point is that a child, even a 2-year-old can be very badly affected by what goes on in their home. By the time a child is 5 years old, their personality and most of their traits are set for life. That means that even by age 2 a lot of this is already well formed. So yes, a lot of strife, arguing, etc. at home can imprint on even a 2-year-old.



Learner said:


> yet once again, she kept laying and stating nonsense, then she switched talking about my daughter "She's basically 'selling' herself to men"!!! My daughter who she only have been with two guys> her ex and her current bf...... and you call that is help? These are pure insults


I agree that this is a misrepresentation of what your daughter has been up to. Two boyfriends is hardly selling herself to men. And this is why I have been very confused by your and your husband’s reaction to your daughter’s actions. It’s way over the top.

Now in Turnera’s defense, in your first few post YOU made it sound like your daughter allowed herself to be used and abused by her boyfriend. Here are some quotes from your early posts that painted this picture of your daughter.



Learner said:


> I failed to raise her to be a decent girl that respects herself and her family





Learner said:


> That guy was filming most of their intimate encounters and making her talk horrible dirty things while doing everything... very sick and disgusting things that I cannot even imagine why on earth a man would want his girlfriend to be talking on the phone with her father while she is pleasuring him and he is filming everything.





Learner said:


> what she did is unforgivable


So you really should not be surprised if people believe what you posted.

After reading all of your posts, I think that your daughter is right. She is an adult and did nothing wrong. I don’t think she ‘sold herself’ to anyone. What was wrong was her ex-bf giving you the photos and videos and you and your husband watching them. You slapping her was wrong too. You invaded her privacy, a place you had no right to go. And then you slap her? But I do understand that you were in shock and after your husband walked out you were more than likely greatly upset.

How did all of the relatives, friends and professionals find out what your daughter did? Exactly what were they told that she did? Did they also view the videos?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

turnera said:


> When I was her age, I was dating a manipulative guy. Like he'd tell me that I wasn't mature enough for him, so he was giving me 6 months to see if I could become a good enough girlfriend. Stuff like that. He had me doing sex stuff I can't even think about now, because he had that much control over me and because my family had raised me to think of sex as shameful; so I 'had to' do it anyway to keep him, so by that time, it was like I was one of those people where they held the gun that someone else used to kill someone, so the killer would say 'well, you're in on it now, you can never tell the truth.'
> 
> And I'm pretty sure that if he had told me to phone my dad during sex, I probably would have done it, AND pretended it way my idea, just to please the guy.
> 
> I have no idea if that's how your daughter is, OP, but it's one possibility.


Thing is, turnera, this father actually watched the sex tape, the whole thing. Would your husband, or any father you know, do that?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I am not a father. Well, maybe I am, but that's not relevant to this thread.
> 
> But I fear I would have done something to him that he would not have forgotten in a hurry.


Ah, but that does not answer the questions. Would you watch videos of your daughter having sex (had you a daughter)?


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

@turnera Maybe, She may did it to please her ex. But same question again, Why would a man want his girlfriend or wife to be talking to her father while they are having sex? Regardless if it was from him or her ... What is gain or the benefit out of it....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jld said:


> Thing is, turnera, this father actually watched the sex tape, the whole thing. Would your husband, or any father you know, do that?


The father of my step children was faced with something like this.

When my step daughter was about 15, an older guy on the internet asked her for video footage of her naked. For some awful reason she went along with it and sent him some via a web cam.

I found the chat and the video. I showed a censored frame of it to her father. His reaction, as soon as he saw it was "Do not show that to me." 

We contacted the FBI and gave them what they needed (not the video). They went after the guy. 

To me, that's how a father reacts to such things.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Ah, but that does not answer the questions. Would you watch videos of your daughter having sex (had you a daughter)?


If I knew beforehand what was on it? No.

I'd have destroyed the video and had 'words' with the male creature concerned.

Who played the video for him, @Learner?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> @turnera Maybe, She may did it to please her ex. But same question again, Why would a man want his girlfriend or wife to be talking to her father while they are having sex? Regardless if it was from him or her ... What is gain or the benefit out of it....


There are two scenarios that I can think of, and they could be combined. And don't jump all over me for saying the following. I'm only writing out what comes to mind. 

1) He's a sick pervert and gets off on father/daughter sexual fantasies. He might even watch a lot of father/daughter porn. It's out there very much available. So having your daughter call her father brings that into play for him during sex. And thus he can live his sick father/daughter fantasies. And she was just playing a game with her then bf.

2) Something like a girl calling her father during her sex could point to a girl who was molested by her father. She wanted to call him during sex so that she could, in her mind, humiliate him and put him in his place. Doing this would help a child who had been abused feel back in power of her own sexuality. Her wild sex incluations with her first boyfriend is also pretty common for victims of abuse. This would also explain why your daughter feels that she does not need to apologize to her father for anything.

I'm not saying that #2 is exactly what was going on. I'm saying that it's a possibility based on what you wrote and what I learned in years of working with children/youth who were abused.

It's most likely #1. But your husbands reaction is very much off and makes #2 a likely hood.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

For clarification, We didn't watch everything as you keep on assuming !

I personally only seen a single nude photo of her... just to confirm that was her - I never knew that she was dating a guy as my daughter never mentioned it, thus, I thought this whole thing was a lie, and when I saw the first photo a massive shock hits my heart to know that was the truth... I was blinded like a bat with what I seen that I forgotten to unplug the flash usb stick and that where my husband had the access and he only saw a photo or two to get so shocked and confused, then, the video file started normally with their cloths on and just his daughter with her ex in the room filming themselves for the first minutes you never expect it will be what it is... then she picks the phone and calls her dad and you can see her with her ex laughing while the phone is on speaker ... then her ex starting groping her and touching her inappropriately ... my husband was so shocked and confused about whats going and when that scene comes he start screaming and throw away the screen...

I just cannot understand how you were even questioning that I and her dad watch this creepy ****....


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

@EleGirl you are calling my husband a sick pervert even after I explained who he is and what he does for a living / You are out of line. Please don't post anything on my thread - I don't want any help comes from you !


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Learner said:


> @turnera Maybe, She may did it to please her ex. But same question again, Why would a man want his girlfriend or wife to be talking to her father while they are having sex? Regardless if it was from him or her ... What is gain or the benefit out of it....


If it was the boyfriend, control and dominance. Making someone do something against their normal nature. (Like Manson and his cult members?)

If the daughter... perhaps revenge? An ill-judged attempt to show her boyfriend how "bad" she was?

You need to get professional answers via counsellors, if this hasn't already happened, I suggest you arrange it ASAP.

Austria - ESCAP
Psychiatrische Ziekenhuizen
Home | PCM - Psychiatrisch Centrum Menen

I cannot guarantee any of those links will be of assistance to you and your daughter and your husband.

But I hope and I pray that they -or links on their sites- might be of help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The way you originally wrote about this, it sounds like you watched a lot of the video and watched her do a lot of debasing thing, her talking very dirty, etc. And that she called her father. It would be creepy if you wanted a lot of video... through several sexual encounters.

So how many minutes of the video did you and your husband watch?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Learner said:


> @EleGirl you are calling my husband a sick pervert even after I explained who he is and what he does for a living / You are out of line. Please don't post anything on my thread - I don't want any help comes from you !


 @Learner. I think that you should be very careful of attacking a moderator on any site that you are using.

Especially a moderator as kind and as giving as @EleGirl.

Your attack on @EleGirl is *way* out of line and I think that you should apologise to her, now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> @EleGirl you are calling my husband a sick pervert even after I explained who he is and what he does for a living / You are out of line. Please don't post anything on my thread - I don't want any help comes from you !


I did not call your husband anything. I gave two scenarios that could lead to what your daughter did. 

And.. I don't care what your husband does for a living. If only what a person did for a livng made them except from doing wrong. But we all know that's not the case. Sadly.

But I'm glad to hear that this sort of thing did not transpire in your family.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Let me be 100% clear. You do not have to like, condone or agree with ANYTHING she did. Yet, when daddy bull-dozed into shaming territory, as a woman, this should have been your line. This idiot even drew you into the same area and blasted you. What does your alleged infidelity, real or fake, have to do with your daughter's situation? Absolutely NOTHING. You will find very little support for this guy because he harbored this resentment for all of these years. Seriously, every time you try to protect him, many of us see an abused woman. You are exhibiting all of the classic signs:
It's your fault.
It's your daughters fault.
He's a saint.
He worked really hard.
He made a mistake.

I mean you are even scared to admit he is wrong in words on a forum. Every time you start leaning in that direction, you start blaming your daughter and accusing posters of not reading or listening to your newest history rewrite of the "greatest husband ever" who made one mistake. I get a high verbal abuse vibe off your words as well. Seriously, you have yet to say he was wrong with his words or actions.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I did not call your husband anything. I gave two scenarios that could lead to what your daughter did.
> 
> And..* I don't care what your husband does for a living.* If only what a person did for a livng made them except from doing wrong. But we all know that's not the case. Sadly.
> 
> But I'm glad to hear that this sort of thing did not transpire in your family.


My sister used to work for a lawyer who had spent a number of years working for the government in Miami, enforcing drug laws. Yet he himself was a cocaine user.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Learner said:


> @EleGirl you are calling my husband a sick pervert even after I explained who he is and what he does for a living / You are out of line. Please don't post anything on my thread - I don't want any help comes from you !


So. I can understand the shock of hearing that and seeing at as accusation. But sometimes what quacks like a duck is... sometimes, not always, a duck. Abusers come from all walks of life, all professions, even caring professions in the area that they are sworn to protect. Ele is not trying to hurt you. I would feel similarly, I suspect. But it is worth looking into to your heart, looking at the behavior of your daughter, and asking yourself.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

There is something I want to reveal but witnessing your judgments/accusations/imaginative fallacious conclusions and allegations making me hesitant to share it, and you might just continue bashing me and my husband and my daughter as most of you have done, and still doing....


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

Earlier last week, My daughter and her boyfriend have told me that they want to take their relationship to the next level and they decided to get engaged.

I talked with my daughter mutiple times (Heart-to-Heart) to re-consider and that she is too young and that she still have studies to finish. But she is really feeling it and that it is the right thing for her, and she asked me to support her in this.

Personally, Even though her boyfriend is a fine young man, I am NOT happy about this. Obviously, She is too young for this and I am not sure if she knows what she is doing. However, My daughter has made it clear that they will get engaged regardless wht I think and if I approve it or not that has no impact whatsoever. In other words, She is doing it anyways with or without me.

So, What should I do:

1) Cancel the whole thing. My family has the power to prevent it from happening. But, My daughter comes first and I don't want to hurt her.

2) Should I tell her that I have a condition for my acceptance and that she has to go to her dad and sort this matter, and he will attending the engagement party and making the father's speech?

3) Should I go by myself and tell my husband about this and that time has come to see our little baby in the white dress? 

Will 2 or 3 help us to get back together?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Oh and to answer a question, I was watching a house. My wife's car was at this house and she should've been at work. Then I realized who was there and it was my daughter. Now, I could have walked in, but I do not know or want to know let alone see, what they may or may not have been doing. I left, called my wife at work and told her to tell my daughter I walked in the house. Nope, I am not watching videos, I didn't even bother confirming sex.

To be fair, she hasn't confirmed her country or culture and I do know some who would watch for punishment and confirmation purposes. These cultures tend to not entertain western beliefs.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Learner said:


> Earlier last week, My daughter and her boyfriend have told me that they want to take their relationship to the next level and they decided to get engaged.
> 
> I talked with my daughter mutiple times (Heart-to-Heart) to re-consider and that she is too young and that she still have studies to finish. But she is really feeling it and that it is the right thing for her, and she asked me to support her in this.
> 
> ...


I would tell her that she has your blessing, on one condition. That she not have the actual wedding until she has graduated from college. If she does that, then you will gladly help pay for the wedding. If she decides she has to get married now, she will have to do it on her own.

And maybe talk about the need nowadays for a woman to have her own college degree so that she is not beholden to her husband for money.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Learner said:


> There is something I want to reveal but witnessing your judgments/accusations/imaginative fallacious conclusions and allegations making me hesitant to share it, and you might just continue bashing me and my husband and my daughter as most of you have done, and still doing....





Learner said:


> Earlier last week, My daughter and her boyfriend have told me that they want to take their relationship to the next level and they decided to get engaged.
> 
> I talked with my daughter mutiple times (Heart-to-Heart) to re-consider and that she is too young and that she still have studies to finish. But she is really feeling it and that it is the right thing for her, and she asked me to support her in this.
> 
> ...


Drawn conclusions?

You said he hit you.
You said you hit her.
You said he left and is not helping you at all.
You said he will sign divorce papers.
You said he called you a cheater with no proof, again.
You said you both watched the videos.
You said SHE didn't appreciate what he's done for her.


So, what conclusion do you want people to draw? I don't care what you rewrite, I'm going by what you told us before your feelings became hurt. He is a terrible person, no matter what culture you two come from. Teens make sex videos and no it isn't just because scumbag males force them to. Welcome to 2016 where boys and girls knowingly do stupid crap on video. So, now, you daughter is this godawful person because of sex? Only in your and your husband's eyes.

Go ahead, stop the wedding and continue the abuse you learned from your husband. Yep, she is too young in my book. They wouldn't be staying in my house, but I'd support the wedding. Before you say it, yep, my daughter just got married too young. Unlike you, I said "whatever you are an adult." I told her all of the college and life things as well. Hopefully, she won't learn the hard way. I live my own life, I haven't got time, nor want, to live hers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Learner said:


> @turnera Maybe, She may did it to please her ex. But same question again, Why would a man want his girlfriend or wife to be talking to her father while they are having sex? Regardless if it was from him or her ... What is gain or the benefit out of it....


That's easy. Young men are c*cky yet insecure - especially around the father of the girl they're with. If he is able to get her to 'thumb her nose' at her father, then he has all the power. Sick, yes, but this guy sounds like a total loser.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> Earlier last week, My daughter and her boyfriend have told me that they want to take their relationship to the next level and they decided to get engaged.
> 
> I talked with my daughter mutiple times (Heart-to-Heart) to re-consider and that she is too young and that she still have studies to finish. But she is really feeling it and that it is the right thing for her, and she asked me to support her in this.


How long has she been dating this guy?


Learner said:


> Personally, Even though her boyfriend is a fine young man, I am NOT happy about this. Obviously, She is too young for this and I am not sure if she knows what she is doing. However, My daughter has made it clear that they will get engaged regardless wht I think and if I approve it or not that has no impact whatsoever. In other words, She is doing it anyways with or without me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Be careful trying to fix someone that you aren't cut on their shattered pieces.

I'm with @phillybeffandswiss on this one.

Peace out.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Learner said:


> Earlier last week, My daughter and her boyfriend have told me that they want to take their relationship to the next level and they decided to get engaged.
> 
> I talked with my daughter mutiple times (Heart-to-Heart) to re-consider and that she is too young and that she still have studies to finish. But she is really feeling it and that it is the right thing for her, and she asked me to support her in this.
> 
> ...


Marriage in Austria ? Austria



> 1. Legal Age for Marriage:
> The legal age for both men and women is 18. Individuals of at least 16 years of age may also marry provided that written, notarized consent from both parents is presented and if the other spouse is at least 18 years old.


Your daughter was born in 1997, so is now 19.

I do not understand how your family (who in your family?) has the power to stop her marriage if she is already of an age when she no longer needs parental consent to marry?:scratchhead:


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Learner said:


> Earlier last week, My daughter and her boyfriend have told me that they want to take their relationship to the next level and they decided to get engaged.
> 
> I talked with my daughter mutiple times (Heart-to-Heart) to re-consider and that she is too young and that she still have studies to finish. But she is really feeling it and that it is the right thing for her, and she asked me to support her in this.
> 
> ...


Don't fight her engagement, it's going to build resentment, and it's going to encourage her to push back. This is basic young-adult stuff.

Tell her that you and your H / family / et al can't pay for a wedding party right now, and try to work with her on setting a date a minimum of 2 years down the road. (Preferably after graduating college)

Your self-described options... 
1) No. Under no circumstances. You don't have the power to stop her from eloping, and you're going to encourage that.
2) Yes, she should try to involve her father. Instead of saying "he will be doing X" have her boyfriend go to him, and ask for his blessing.* This seems antiquated, but trust me, it's not.* Asking a father for their blessing isn't about women being property, it's about building a solid alliance between families. Having your in-laws at your throat is a recipe for divorce; and if you love your daughter, you're going to want her to have a successful marriage. You may want to talk to her BF / Fiance about this yourself.
3) Preferably wait until the future SIL talks to him. Then step in, and encourage him to play ball.

None of this is necessarily going to bring you and your H back together.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Regarding the future SIL asking your H for his blessing... This can be tricky, concerning your current situation. You really need to sit the SIL down and talk with him about it. 

Explain to him that you want your DD to be happy, and that if she is happy with him, and he is good to her, then you are going to support them. 

Explain to him that marriage isn't just about love, especially not about infatuation. It's about building alliances and bringing 2 families together; with that in mind it is in his best interests to try to get her dad on board. Explain this to DD too. Also, discuss the importance of having his family's support, and favor toward DD. Toxic in-laws can destroy a marriage. Make sure this doesn't come across as a threat, but as you trying to help them and to look out for their relationship, because you want them to be together forever.

Here's a couple of good articles on it.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> And.. I don't care what your husband does for a living. If only what a person did for a livng made them except from doing wrong. But we all know that's not the case. Sadly.


Of *course* he's in a field related to stamping out child abuse/exploitation.

There are too many inconsistencies in the thread. None of the followup makes sense. There is a consistency to stories, even ones that seem too unbelievable to be true, but not this one. 

I don't believe the OP for a second, any of it, except she's lonely. That part I believe.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

sapientia said:


> Of *course* he's in a field related to stamping out child abuse/exploitation.
> 
> There are too many inconsistencies in the thread. None of the followup makes sense. There is a consistency to stories, even ones that seem too unbelievable to be true, but not this one.
> 
> I don't believe the OP for a second, any of it, except she's lonely. That part I believe.


I'm starting to agree. I had read the first 2 pages, and jumped to the end to comment. After reading the rest...

This story changes shape and color like a mimic octopus.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sapientia said:


> Of *course* he's in a field related to stamping out child abuse/exploitation.
> 
> There are too many inconsistencies in the thread. None of the followup makes sense. There is a consistency to stories, even ones that seem too unbelievable to be true, but not this one.
> 
> I don't believe the OP for a second, any of it, except she's lonely. That part I believe.


Funny you should mention that...
Child sex abuse police officer Nick Lidstone sentenced - BBC News


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Learner said:


> @EleGirl you are calling my husband a sick pervert even after I explained who he is and what he does for a living / You are out of line. Please don't post anything on my thread - I don't want any help comes from you !


You are way out of line OP to attack elegirl like this. Not only is she one of the kindest, wise and compassionate posters on TAM, she's also a moderator. And no, she doesn't need me to come to her defense, but I was so angered by your post I had to say something.

Only a sick pervert would watch HIS DAUGHTER having sex. That's disgusting and so many levels of wrong.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Funny you should mention that...
> Child sex abuse police officer Nick Lidstone sentenced - BBC News


Being a Brit, you may remember that Jimmy Savile was a big sponser of the NSPCC (National Society for the Cruelty to Children). Helped fund-raise for and donated to them etc. It appears that he was a predator of children and adults.

In some ways, it's not completely unlikely to see people in such positions abuse their power. Power does messed up things to the brain.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> Being a Brit, you may remember that Jimmy Savile was a big sponser of the NSPCC (National Society for the Cruelty to Children). Helped fund-raise for and donated to them etc. It appears that he was a predator of children and adults.
> 
> In some ways, it's not completely unlikely to see people in such positions abuse their power. Power does messed up things to the brain.


Draws people predisposed to these types of exploitation, too.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks for the provided thoughts, I did what I felt right !

My daughter and I went out together for lunch, and we talked a lot. I am really happy because of the time that we spent together today.

We started our talk that she is young for such a serious commitment, and that marriage comes with lots of responsibilities, and that she has a degree to finish, because education is very important. She agrees and understood all that.

After that, I decided to bring her father into the discussions, and I was very firm with her, I told her that she has two options:

A) Goes to her father and fix things with him by apologizing and asking his forgiveness. In return, We will fully fund her engagement, wedding, and honeymoon. Besides, They (Her & Her husband) will be more than welcome to live in our house. We have a big house which we really don't use most of its rooms.

B) She can go ahead, elope marry whomever she wants, But, She will do all that on her own. No one in the whole family her father's side nor my side will attend or pay a single penny in anything. If she chooses to do so, then, She will have to move in with whomever she is going to marry.

I was VERY afraid of her reaction and the ramification of what I said, But, I stood my ground and I didn't show any hesitation in what I said. 

Thankfully, When I just started talking about option (B), She interrupted me saying that her dream wedding is her dad gives her away with a speech, and that we all must be there. Because that what will make her happy and that what she wants.

However, She raised two points:

- They want to get engaged really soon, and they wanna marry sometime end of this year => Well, This is something can be discussed and arranged.

- As for her father, She said that she is: So ashamed and feeling guilty because of what she did and she cannot look him in the eye after all this, and then she cried and kept asking what is he doesn't forgive her or even see her.... That is my daughter who I love and raised !

I promised her that he dad will be more than happy to see her and all this cloud will go away, and if necessary I will step in to fix this, But, I told her that it must come from you first.


I am so happy how things are developing, But, There is a voice in my head keeps telling me that maybe my daughter isn't quite sincere in her intentions and she is doing that just to ensure that everything is being paid for.....I don't wanna think this way....But seeing how my daughter was so stubbornly disrespectful she was... make me wonder... I hope I am wrong.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I somehow doubt that this will end well.

Too many strong personalities vying to be the top one. 

Family therapy is what I would recommend, professionally.

But that might not be a viable option in this case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Learner said:


> Thanks for the provided thoughts, I did what I felt right !
> 
> My daughter and I went out together for lunch, and we talked a lot. I am really happy because of the time that we spent together today.
> 
> ...


Sigh. Poor girl. Does every discussion with her involve quid pro quo? 


> I was VERY afraid of her reaction and the ramification of what I said, But, I stood my ground and I didn't show any hesitation in what I said.
> 
> Thankfully, When I just started talking about option (B), She interrupted me saying that her dream wedding is her dad gives her away with a speech, and that we all must be there. Because that what will make her happy and that what she wants.
> 
> ...


This entire thread makes me want to puke. Sorry, OP. It just does.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

OK against my better judgement, I'll bite.

You say you live in Austria but judging from how your family is interacting I take it that your family is not Austrian. (I have many friends living in Germany and Austria) Would you be kind enough to tell us the ethnic and religious background of everybody involved? I would generally refrain from going there but seeing how strained the discussion is getting on this thread I feel getting more family background would be helpful to the posters.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

@matt Why do you think it may not end well? Your words are scaring me ...

I know my husband, He is dying to see her and I am sure that he will forget everything the moment that she knocks oh his door and hug him. He is a good father with very kind heart.

Once that part is fixed...It is done Matt, I don't see any other problems, and we will get back together living normally as we were as one family. This is what I am hoping and anticipating.

My only fear is that my daughter may change her mind or does what we agreed on just to get what she wants.... But I feel these are just wrong thoughts, Because I really felt that my daughter was talking from the bottom of her heart.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You still haven't addressed the possibility that your husband left just because he wanted to.

But I'm curious - you told her you wanted her to graduate first, but then you said the only stipulation to you paying for it all was that she apologize to her dad? Is that right? Why didn't you just say she had to graduate before you'd pay for the wedding? Odds are 50/50 that they would even be together in 2 years.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Learner said:


> @turnera Maybe, She may did it to please her ex. But same question again, Why would a man want his girlfriend or wife to be talking to her father while they are having sex? Regardless if it was from him or her ... What is gain or the benefit out of it....


For some people, having sex on the phone with or near but hidden from view of a parent is a thrill. It's a naughty adrenaline rush. The thrill of wondering if you'll get caught, the thrill of getting away with something if you don't. 

Also, there can be some rebelliousness in there, too. The young woman doing such a thing as a way of thumbing her nose at and rejecting her parents values and declaring herself free to do as she pleases.

The young man could have gotten a kick out of "stealing" the young woman from her father and she may have gotten a thrill out of being "stolen".

This kind of kink was never my thing, but I know people who have experimented with it back when they were younger and parental authority was much more of a factor in their lives.

As for your husband leaving...well, I think he was looking for an excuse. The precious child has grown, he has no real reason to stay in the marriage, and he left as soon as he could find any excuse to leave. I don't know about Austrian culture, but it is not uncommon for people to stay married " for the child(ren)" and then to end the marriage soon after the child(ren) reach legal adulthood.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

@turnera
In my mind, my eyes, and my heart I know that my husband left because he is hurt from the closest person to his heart (His daughter). I am sure about this, and once his daughter comes back to her dad, He will be back. He loves me, I know this, He knows this, and our daughter knows this too.

As for the graduation, I am not worried about this part, Because my daughter loves her studies and she will continue for sure even if no one encouraged her to do so. Besides, Her BF is actually very keen on this matter and he told me that he will make sure that she completes her study and continue higher education if she wants to.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

Please do me a favor and answer my question.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you looked at your phone bills lately? To see if there's a phone number you don't recognize that your husband called a lot?


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

Yes @turnera I have checked, and all is good ! Also, My elder brother who is a very close friend with my husband has talked with him about this matter if there is someone in his life/affair - Yes, Even though he is my brother, But they are VERY close friends,and my husband answer was a categorically resounding NO.

Honestly speaking, I am SO unpleasantly taken aback by most of your reactions, I thought that you would be happy for me that things are developing to the better direction that my family are getting back together... All got was just negative and super pessimistic vibes, It shows that they don't wish to see us back happy family together...

See the likes for the post of the @NobodySpecial .... "malicious" to see a daughter getting back to her dad and a husband getting back to his wife? Only a malicious freak would puke when good things such as these happen, and the worst are the ones who even "Like" !


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Learner said:


> See the likes for the post of the @NobodySpecial .... "malicious" to see a daughter getting back to her dad and a husband getting back to his wife? Only a malicious freak would puke when good things such as these happen, and the worst are the ones who even "Like" !


It had nothing to do with your family getting back together. I would suggest you seek advice in the family forum, particularly from @turnera on authoritative (not authoritarian) parenting. But at your daughter's age, it is likely too late.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner said:


> Yes @turnera I have checked, and all is good ! Also, My elder brother who is a very close friend with my husband has talked with him about this matter if there is someone in his life/affair - Yes, Even though he is my brother, But they are VERY close friends,and my husband answer was a categorically resounding NO.
> 
> Honestly speaking, I am SO unpleasantly taken aback by most of your reactions, *I thought that you would be happy for me that things are developing to the better direction that my family are getting back together*... All got was just negative and super pessimistic vibes, It shows that they don't wish to see us back happy family together...
> 
> See the likes for the post of the @NobodySpecial .... "malicious" to see a daughter getting back to her dad and a husband getting back to his wife? Only a malicious freak would puke when good things such as these happen, and the worst are the ones who even "Like" !


I do hope that your family can get beyond your daughter having a sex life and heal. I would guess that everyone here hopes that.

But it’s not true that your “family are getting back together” at this point. What is true is that your daughter has agreed to apologize to her father for calling him during sex. 

There is hope on your part that you have put into potion things that will bring your husband back and heal your family. I hope that’s true. 

But, at this point your daughter has not talked to her father. There is no indication that it would go well if she did. He has not softened his stance towards her and you. I say that because he has not returned home on his own. So it’s’ probably that people here think that there is little chance that her talking to him will help their relationship. And even less chance that he will return to you after she talks to him.

Only time will tell.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Learner,

You say that your daughter called her father while she was having sex with her bf. 

You say that she was doing a lot of dirty talk. 

But it seems that her father did not hear any of the dirty talk, or sex noises when she was on the phone with him. And the only way he knew about it that he views some of her sex videos. 

Is this right?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Learner said:


> Yes @turnera I have checked, and all is good ! Also, My elder brother who is a very close friend with my husband has talked with him about this matter if there is someone in his life/affair - Yes, Even though he is my brother, But they are VERY close friends,and my husband answer was a categorically resounding NO.
> 
> Honestly speaking, I am SO unpleasantly taken aback by most of your reactions, I thought that you would be happy for me that things are developing to the better direction that my family are getting back together... All got was just negative and super pessimistic vibes, It shows that they don't wish to see us back happy family together...
> 
> See the likes for the post of the @NobodySpecial .... "malicious" to see a daughter getting back to her dad and a husband getting back to his wife? Only a malicious freak would puke when good things such as these happen, and the worst are the ones who even "Like" !


*shrug*

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm just being practical, hoping to help you see all possible scenarios. I've been doing this a really long time, and in all that time, I have NEVER seen a husband just move out because of his daughter having sex. And I don't understand you saying that now he's being talked about as a predator to his own daughter; did I miss something? 

i'm just trying to protect you by helping you see the realistic prospects of what might be going on. With her, with him, and with you. I know you want him back, and you may have good reason to think he will come back; we're not there. It sounds like he turned a leaf and became a great man overnight and that, too, makes me doubtful that the picture you're painting is all that truthful. He makes good money, he takes you on trips and buys you stuff...but his daughter feels a need to rebel in such an odd way? I just feel like there's something you're not telling us (as you yourself said you're afraid to tell us some things lest you get a negative reaction). 

Therefore, I highly doubt he's going to slap his forehead, realize his mistake, and come running home as you're wishing for.

Your recent actions are great and I'm glad you're communicating. I'm not a handholding kind of poster; I don't get all mushy very often, and I don't think you need it. My job, IMO, is to remind you of the other things that could be going on so you can arm yourself with knowledge and search for the truth, lest you get blindsided by results many of see the possibility for. Foreknowledge is forearmed. That's all. 

If you came here to be congratulated, you should say so. But this is a public forum and therefore all are welcome to post their thoughts. These are mine.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> *shrug*
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm just being practical, hoping to help you see all possible scenarios. I've been doing this a really long time, and in all that time, I have NEVER seen a husband just move out because of his daughter having sex. And I don't understand you saying that now he's being talked about as a predator to his own daughter; did I miss something?


There were those of us who saw the actions of the daughter potentially indicative of abuse.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That would explain a lot.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

Just sharing the latest AMAZING updates:

About an hour ago, My phone started ringing, and it was my husband's number, This is how it went play-by-play:

Me: Hello !
Husband: I miss you...
Me: .... I couldn't say a word coz I was jumping of joy
Husband: Listen, I want you to put on "that" dress because I will pick you tomorrow evening at 6 for a date.
Me: Our daughter has things to tell you, I think you should sit with her first. 
Husband: She has been here the past three hours and she's still here...
Daughter: Hey Mom, & Don't forget tomorrow at 6, The three of us !
Husband: and BTW, be aware that you have your stuff with you cos you are not coming back home as we will spend the weekend in "that" hotel.
Me: .... I was so happy that I couldn't say a thing except OK OK

Hung up !

After 2 minutes, I called him again:

Me: And, After the weekend - What is going to happen?
Husband: I don't understand, What do you mean?
Me: I mean, After the weekend, Will you continue to be living in "that" apartment by yourself.
Husband: By myself not anymore, But, It is up to you though if you wanna come here... But it's kinda small for the three of us - isn't? I am coming back home, Haven't you heard what I said beginning of the call... I said: I miss you 
Me: .... Once again, I was so happy that I couldn't say a thing except OK OK

After a little, I called my daughter and she was still there, I wanted to know what has happened. She didn't much except that when she went there and throw herself between his arms, he couldn't hold his tears, and he didn't even let her talk much. She told me that he just told her that he loves her more than himself and she can always come to him regarding anything because he will always be there for her.

I couldn't be more happier and prouder of my daughter and my husband !

Two questions though:

1) I am thinking of going to his apartment a few hours before 6. I really want to jump his bones, Is this a good idea? Or, Should I hold the sex till he explains why he did what he did and left me all this period and stayed alone? Frankly, I feel somewhat I shouldn't even bring this up once we are back together as we are turning a new page.

2) My husband called a few minutes ago again after our daughter has left, and told me that she told him that her BF is a Muslim. To me, my husband and our daughter this is NOT a thing at all ! We really don't care about the religious background. As a matter of fact we don't consider ourselves Christians because we are not (We never went to any church or house of worship, we are not baptized...etc). However, Some of our family (My side & husband's side) are Christians, and my husband has raised a good point that we need to be prepare when we introduce him to the rest of the family and prepare for their reaction (In case if they have), as well as, the most important part is that we want him to be very comfortable with us and our family members especially in family occasions such as Easter, Christmas or even when it comes to food/drinking ... Also, This is something we will keep in mind especially when we plan for the engagement and the wedding as maybe some of his family will come.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

@turnera and @EleGirl
I want to say I am very sorry for the way I responded to you poorly in some of my posts. I really mean it. This experience has taught me a lot and it is clear that I need to work on myself to be more patient and have a better control of my emotion and reaction. You were very kind to me and tried to open my eyes to things I have not even think of. Thank you, and as I just posted, I am still looking for your great inputs.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm not buying this....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So all is well.

Be aware that if your daughter marries this guy, your grandchildren will be raised as Muslims. Do you even know anything about Islam?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ask your daughter about how the wedding will be done? Where will it be.

One of my nieces married a Muslim. Her family, like mine, are Catholic. He insisted that the married be an Islamic marriage. Now what does that mean?

That means that it's very different from a European or Christian marriage.

The marriage is a contract between the groom and the bride's FATHER. Except in my niece's case, since her father is Catholic, he was not allowed to sign the marriage contract. Instead the Imam acted as her male guardian. 

She was 26 years old and not allowed to sign her own marriage contract. Her father and her family were not allowed to witness the wedding. they were only allowed to attend the dinner afterwards. There was no Bride's father's speech because the bride's father was not a Muslim. 

You need to find out about the Islamic marriage contract. The basic contract allows for the man to have 4 wives. Several of us family members worked to research and write my niece's marriage contract. We followed the format from a friend of hers from a wealthy Islamic family. The friend's father was very wise and built in all kinds of protects for his daughter. For example in their marriage contract, it states that if the guy marries a second wife, it gives his first wife the automatic right to a divorce. And in that divorce she gets all of his assets and custody of their children. 

Look up the Islamic laws for divorce. If your daughter and this guy were to get divorce, he keeps everything that is his. She keeps everything that is hers. There is no community property. But he gets 100% custody of their children. She can see the children if he allows it.

If he dies, she gets 1/8th of his assets. The rest to go his parents and the children.

Now if the wife is not Muslim, she gets nothing in divorc, she can never have her children and with death she cannot inherit anything.

Under Islamic law a man is allowed to 'correct' his wife.. meaning beat her as long as he does not break bones or cause a lot of visible damage.

Of course you say you live in Europe. But more and more European countries are allowing Muslims to have Muslim law. And he could always convince her to move to an Islamic country. If that happens, she could be in big trouble.

See if you can stretch this enagement out for a year or two.


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## Learner (Oct 23, 2012)

Thank you very, very much @EleGirl !

I just printed out all these points and I will make sure to do some research and talk with my daughter, my husband and the BF too about each and every single point.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ok, will be interesting to see what they say.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Learner said:


> 2) My husband called a few minutes ago again after our daughter has left, and told me that she told him that her BF is a Muslim. To me, my husband and our daughter this is NOT a thing at all ! We really don't care about the religious background. As a matter of fact we don't consider ourselves Christians because we are not (We never went to any church or house of worship, we are not baptized...etc).


Then you are going to be in for a BIG shock (and so is your daughter).
There are many things that a Muslim wife is just expected to know, and unless she gets them right others are likely to look down on both of them, and pleading the outside card is worse not better - many lifetime Muslim women have difficulty living up to the impossible (and usually unrewarding standards, and inequality).


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

From my very small understanding of Islam, her boyfriend is already breaking the laws of his faith by engaging in pre-marital sex, and also by marrying outside of his faith. She will most likely be under heavy pressure to convert. If this is her desire, then great.

I am glad you will research what @EleGirl said, your family all needs to understand clearly what marrying a Muslim will mean for her future. ALL of the Muslims I know are wonderful people, and yes, I have read the Quran. Some verses I strongly disagree with, such as:

Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.

Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Spicy said:


> From my very small understanding of Islam, her boyfriend is already breaking the laws of his faith by engaging in pre-marital sex,


Generally, premarital sex with non-Muslim women is seen as ok. It’s Muslim women who must be protected from this. 



Spicy said:


> and also by marrying outside of his faith.


Islam does not allow a Muslim woman to marry outside of the faith.

But it does allow a Muslim man to marry outside the faith. I dated a Muslim guy for a while in college. He told me that a lot of Muslim guys in Western countries look for non-Muslim wives as they believe that converting a non-Muslim to Islam will ensure their passage to heaven.

In Islam the children must be raised in the father’s faith, Islam. And since in Islam, a man rules the home, he has 100% control over the children. The wife is incidental. If she wants to not covert and leave it’s ok. After all she produced more Muslims. Plus, it is assumed that with pressure she will eventually convert to the religion of her children and the religion that gives her some rights. She has zero rights under Islam if she does not convert.



Spicy said:


> She will most likely be under heavy pressure to convert. If this is her desire, then great.


Yep


Spicy said:


> I am glad you will research what @EleGirl said, your family all needs to understand clearly what marrying a Muslim will mean for her future. ALL of the Muslims I know are wonderful people, and yes, I have read the Quran. Some verses I strongly disagree with, such as:


I agree that the idea is for Learner, her husband and their daughter to completely understand the difference in culture, religion and law.

When my niece married, she married a guy who had been educated in Europe and the USA. They both have PHDs. He was very moderate and westernized. Fast forward 16 years. She’s converted to Islam. They are very staunch Muslims. He gave up his career in his PHD field and runs an Islamic religious kindergarten to high school. 

People usually go back to the way they were raised. And the wife usually follows her husband in this.


Spicy said:


> Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.
> 
> Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

What sect is he?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A cousin of mine married a Muslim. Once she had the kids he wanted, he took the kids back to his country and she never saw them again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> A cousin of mine married a Muslim. Once she had the kids he wanted, he took the kids back to his country and she never saw them again.


While things seem good between my neice and nephew-in-law, she will not allow him to take both of their children back to his home country at the same time. The idea is that he will never leave one behind. Plus, she will no longer visit his home country. I have not heard why, but I can imagine. 

His praents are very moderate by the way. Both are European educated. When the mother visits the USA she wears shorts, sleeveless blouses. Says she hates going to Saudi becaue they are so backward and she hates wearing the hijab and abaya.


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