# Living in Limbo - "separated" but living together



## swanee (Dec 19, 2020)

Hey all, I'm new here and just looking to get some thoughts down and perhaps get some other perspectives. I've been married 8 years and together for 12. I've always done the finances and in the beginning, we always did them together.

After marriage and buying new house, my husband just stopped being a part of these conversations and left them to me. Which, I've continued to take care of. About 5 years ago, my husband started a new job but still at the same company and his workload tripled. He was on call 24/7 and constantly consumed with work. About 4 years ago, we moved to another city to be closer to family (his) and I feel like he's always really resented it.. that I pushed the issue. After moving here, his workload intensified as he was now working from home and it's when I realized a definite shift in our marriage. He was constantly on edge an I could tell he was overwhelmed. After he'd finish work, he just wanted to decompress and our communication, which was never great, continued to deteriorate. I think for me, I ended up finding ways to fill the void in my marriage. Planning girls trips each year, planning a trip for us to Europe, shopping etc.

Earlier this year, my husband lost his job. Upon doing so, he suddenly wanted to know be a part of the financial conversation and monthly budgeting. I knew we had accumulated a significant amount of debt but was terrified to actually tell him how much. So, I only told him about the debt on cc we had together. He lost his mind and started blaming me for it all and not being open about it. This is totally true but I also feel he should've bucked up and insisted long ago that he be apart of this conversation if not on a monthly basis, at least a quarterly basis. After his reaction, I knew there was no way I could tell him about all the other debt. So, against my better judgement, I just did whatever I could to work and try to pay the additional debt without him knowing. Problem is, I also used these same cc's to incur continuing debt this year. Not significantly but regardless, I was doing it.

Fast forward 6-7 months and we've significantly paid down the debt he knew about... 70% of it.

Then my husband finally got a job offer which obviously was cause for much celebration. With this job offer, a security clearance was required.

About 5 weeks after he started the job, he was contacted regarding his security clearance about some "flags" that have come up as it relates to debt.

My husband came home and confronted me about it and I finally shared the gravity and entirety of the situation. He was understandably devastated, angry, sad and I'm sure a whole host of other emotions. I felt so ashamed and guilty for having kept this from him and feared that because of my betrayal of his trust, he very well could lose his job.

That night, my husband moved out of our bedroom and into the guest room and the silent treatment commenced.

We didn't talk for several days but I tried apologizing everyday. I rounded up all my credit cards and created a sheet with all the logins and everything to every account I had and provided this to him.

On the days we have talked since then, he continually blames me and just berates me about it all. I've told him that I am so very sorry but I cannot change what's happened in the past, I can only try to everything in my power to move forward and ensure it never happens again.

If I'm being totally honest, while I'm devastated for the state of my marriage currently, the relief of having the weight of this secret off my chest is incredible.
My husband has been saying I'm insane, I'm selfish, I have no integrity and just wants to constantly beat me down mentally for this.

As mentioned before, there has been some issues within our marriage prior to all of this coming out however my husband seems to believe that this is now the only issue
I feel stuck in limbo not knowing how to move past things. I've asked him if he wants to stay married because if so, I believe the only way for us to do so is to get counseling but I think in his mind, he thinks I'm the only one that needs counseling.

I've had some very dark days over the last few months but do finally feel that I have a clear conscience and want to work to do whatever I can to erase this debt and work on my marriage but I can't do it alone.

We don't have any children so the big thing for me is just feeling so isolated and shut out. Since this all went down, we don't eat together, don't go to church together and do not spend any kind of downtime together.

I welcome any insights and advice as at some point, we've got to either decide to try and move forward or decide that we no longer want to be married because I can't continue to live like this.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

If I may ask, what type of debt(s) were you hiding from him? I'm not sure, even after reading your post, why you felt it necessary to hide this information from him? You lied about a major issue, but it sounds like you are making a sincere effort to make amends. He keeps hammering you about your mistake. But I get the feeling there's a lot more to this, which is why I think his continued anger might stem from other issues.

Would you care to expound?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Lots more random thought and you've left out a lot of information.

Well you were in charge of the finances but it's his fault you are in debt because???? he trusted you? or because he spent abunch of money without asking?
How did all this debt accumulate? 
I'm in charge of the finances at my house and it can be a heavy burden to make all the decisions and keep the ship right. I don't like telling family members no when they want things but that's my job.
You say you moved to be closer to his family but he resented it? What prompted the move?
Secrecy is a marriage killer in my opinion. Why did you keep it a secret? Why is there so much debt?
Before the debt how was the relationship?
Do you know what his needs are?
It sounds like he wasn't meeting your emotional needs. It sounds like you spent a lot of money on things you couldn't afford like vacations.

Did he will he lose his job due to the risk that debt brings?
How did he manage to pay off 70% of the known debt?

Infidelity is what has happened. So you must work to rebuild trust and it will take time. You need counseling. Yes he will probably need some and perhaps marriage counseling but you need to start with yourself. Which is good because that is the only person you can control.


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## swanee (Dec 19, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> If I may ask, what type of debt(s) were you hiding from him? I'm not sure, even after reading your post, why you felt it necessary to hide this information from him? You lied about a major issue, but it sounds like you are making a sincere effort to make amends. He keeps hammering you about your mistake. But I get the feeling there's a lot more to this, which is why I think his continued anger might stem from other issues.
> 
> Would you care to expound?


I think that understanding the "reason" I was hiding this from him is something I need to get to the root cause of for sure. Part of it was that I think I felt I had it under control, part of it for sure is that I was afraid to tell the whole story. When I say this, I in no way am using this as an excuse because sitting here now, this is something that I want to absolutely take full responsibility for and again, make sure it never happens again. The debt I was hiding was CC debt that I had in my own name. He has it in his mind that when we moved here, we were debt free. I tried bringing up the fact that just because he not recall about the home improvements and other big ticket things we purchased before we moved here, doesn't mean they didn't exist. I've always made more money than he has by a significant amount so when I said this...his response was.. Well I figured since you were making XXXXX, this would've all just been paid for. I just want to do whatever I can to address it and fix it but I feel that I just don't deserve to be punished for this every day.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

If I was in your shoes, here's what I would do: I'd tell my husband that battering me over the head for my mistake is not going to correct the issue. I'd be totally transparent with him and request that he sit down with me and go over our finances (and the ones I messed up) with a fine toothed comb. 

The thing is, however, that I get the feeling that your husband cannot get past you lying to him. You need to think really hard why you committed financial adultery, so to speak. Again, I think your husband may be angry about more than just you lying about the debt. I also believe you'd better do some serious soul searching right now and figure out why you hid this information from him. 

What type of expenses were you racking up on your own credit cards? Granted, you may not feel you deserve to be "punished" this way, but realize that your husband is really disappointed and probably feeling as if you've pulled the rug out from under him. Consider how you would feel if the roles were reversed.


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## swanee (Dec 19, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Lots more random thought and you've left out a lot of information.
> 
> Well you were in charge of the finances but it's his fault you are in debt because???? he trusted you? or because he spent abunch of money without asking?
> How did all this debt accumulate?
> ...


I'm not intentionally leaving out a lot of information, it's just there is a lot of info and hard to capture everything in a single post. 
1. I've never not once said it's "his fault" we are in debt. The point I was trying to make is that a significant amount of the debt was debt acquired by both of us but that he doesn't want to acknowledge that, because of the betrayal. 
2. I think making him sit down and go over finances together is something I should've definitely done some time ago but also do feel that this is something he should've pushed for too. 
3. This debt did not accumulate overnight. As mentioned, there were significant home improvements we made the year before we moved. Then the move itself cost a large chunk of money. Purchases made after we moved here etc. 

I think you're spot on when you say it's a huge burden... and your point about saying "no". That is something that I should've not just been telling him, but telling myself. 
He resented the move because 20 years prior, he moved to be away from his family. And I understand leaving all of our friends was hard but I just felt we were missing our on our niece and nephews lives and didn't want 18 years to go by and they don't even know us. 
I don't know why I kept it a secret but again.. that's something I need to figure out. 
Before moving here, our relationship/marriage was something our friends would say they always aspire to.

The good news is.. he got his clearance (THANK GOD)!

He didn't manage to pay down 70% of the debt.. we did. I had a couple good months with significant commissions and we got it knocked down.


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## swanee (Dec 19, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> If I was in your shoes, here's what I would do: I'd tell my husband that battering me over the head for my mistake is not going to correct the issue. I'd be totally transparent with him and request that he sit down with me and go over our finances (and the ones I messed up) with a fine toothed comb.
> 
> The thing is, however, that I get the feeling that your husband cannot get past you lying to him. You need to think really hard why you committed financial adultery, so to speak. Again, I think your husband may be angry about more than just you lying about the debt. I also believe you'd better do some serious soul searching right now and figure out why you hid this information from him.
> 
> What type of expenses were you racking up on your own credit cards? Granted, you may not feel you deserve to be "punished" this way, but realize that your husband is really disappointed and probably feeling as if you've pulled the rug out from under him. Consider how you would feel if the roles were reversed.


I have put myself in his shoes repeatedly and I like I said above, I would absolutely be feeling many if not more of what he's feeling. The bottom line is.. if the "punishment" continues forever and he can't let it go, all that's going to do is bring out resentment in me and we will never move past this.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

swanee said:


> I'm not intentionally leaving out a lot of information, it's just there is a lot of info and hard to capture everything in a single post.
> 1. I've never not once said it's "his fault" we are in debt. The point I was trying to make is that a significant amount of the debt was debt acquired by both of us but that he doesn't want to acknowledge that, because of the betrayal.
> 2. I think making him sit down and go over finances together is something I should've definitely done some time ago but also do feel that this is something he should've pushed for too.
> 3. This debt did not accumulate overnight. As mentioned, there were significant home improvements we made the year before we moved. Then the move itself cost a large chunk of money. Purchases made after we moved here etc.
> ...


While I do understand the burden of being the gatekeeper for money I still call ******** on the he should have sat down and asked you. In each relationship people end up with jobs. If my job is to do the finances then I do them. If I need help or if the finances are getting out of hand I say hey we have to stop spending money. My husband knows that part of that is if he wants to spend money that isn't normal like 400 for a car part or 1000 to take a tree down he asks me if that's going to be ok. Not because I'm in charge of our lives but I'm in charge of the finances so if he isn't going to do them he needs to make sure he isn't breaking them.

If my job is to cook the meals I don't get made because he never makes me let him cook. Just doesn't make sense. Flip side he eats what I cook (mouth shut) 

Now I agree he can't punish you forever but this hasn't been that long and had the opportunity to greatly impact his job which can be hard to find right now. So it isn't just the lying it is also how it almost wiped out something important to him. Nobody likes being unemployed.

So as mentioned by me and prodigal. This is an infidelity and those don't disappear overnight. You can expect that some of these feelings will continue for a while. You have given him all the account information but have you two discuss what should happen going forward? Who is going to do the finances going forward? How are expenses and decision about expenses made? When should an expense be discussed?

If you don't have the money to move then don't move, if you don't have the money for movers rent a van those kind of things. 

Me and my husband have defacto spending habits where if we wants something that is out of the ordinary or expensive we talk about it. Even if it is me and even if we have the money I let him know that I want this thing and ask him if he thinks I should get it.

For you two to heal you have to take more responsibility for not doing your job (finance) and not let him know that things were going south. If it is too much for you then tell him have him either help or take over. This is not the time to be defensive. Also come up with a plan on how you are going to cut expenses and help to work out of this hole.

In your telling the moving sounded like your idea to be near nieces and nephews. Did he even want to move? This could be another spot of resentment. You move where he doesn't want to be, he thinks everything else is ok. Then he finds out the move put you in deep hidden debt. You say you had to fix up the house and such that he knew that but he didn't know how much you didn't have to do that with. How much did he get to help pick the house, the refurbishments and such?

I can tell you I'd be pissed if I was in debt because my husband decided to pay 2k to have our house painted. Of course our household doesn't do debt.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

swanee said:


> if the "punishment" continues forever and he can't let it go, all that's going to do is bring out resentment in me and we will never move past this.


I guess at this point, you need to outright tell him to stop punishing you for your mistake. Tell him if he wants to discuss it calmly, you're all in. Any chance he'd be willing to give marriage counseling a try?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Ask him what it will take to move past this. He may have some ideas about how to recover. He may say he can’t move past it and wants out. But he needs to do more than just continue to complain.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Credit card debt is so expensive to carry, is there a way to find a cheaper source of debt financing and pay off the credit cards?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

swanee said:


> The good news is.. he got his clearance (THANK GOD)!


That is very good news. Not receiving his clearance due to debt you lied to him about would have been a marriage-killer. 



swanee said:


> I have a clear conscience and want to work to do whatever I can to erase this debt and work on my marriage but I can't do it alone.


While you are correct that you cannot do it alone, just make sure, completely sure, that he fully knows and agrees to ALL financial data in the future. Complete, utter transparency.
You can work on your marriage alone. Make sure your husband sees you doing it. Ultimately, that's all you can do. If there is anything you can do to bring in money to continue liquidation of these debts, do so. 

As debts are liquidated, do not EVER AGAIN use debt behind your husband's back.



swanee said:


> If the "punishment" continues forever and he can't let it go, all that's going to do is bring out resentment in me and we will never move past this.


You have to let it go. Let go, and let God. Do not allow yourself to develop resentment. I know. Easier said, than done. "Seventy times seven" is a LOT of times. 

In saying this, I also want to say that I was not very good at it. I was on your husband's "side" of this kind of complete betrayal. I have to say, it took me a LLLLLLOOOOONNNNNGGG
time to "let it go".....

Any resentment you keep will cause the demise of your marriage.



Openminded said:


> Ask him what it will take to move past this.


This is a superb idea.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cut up the credit cards. If you cant afford things don't buy them.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You have bigger problems than the debt. I’m not saying it’s not a major issue. 

See if you can find a GOOD marriage counselor. I’m not fond of most but a good one could help you both ferret out your problems and more importantly how to deal with them.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Whatever was causing you to hide the debt and financial situation in general from him likely still exists. You knew you were spending over your head, and to cover your tracks, you went to your credit cards. That can be evidence of an addiction, and over the years, your husband has probably seen some of the evidence but never put it together.

I see three issues here. One, your husband. Sorry, but you can't do much to change his mind based on reason, or love. Because the second reason is betrayal- he may feel very much like someone who's discovered their spouse's affair. The secrecy, the way things were covered up, the suspicion that he doesn't know everything. And third, as mentioned above, your willingness to spend beyond your means.

I would suggest watching a Ted Talk or other video about infidelity, to get a sense of how your husband feels, and what it takes to get out from under it. You already started the process by turning over your CC logins etc to him. Complete transparence and telling him it's OK, that you understand why he can't trust you, and that it can take a very long time before he does again.

And perhaps attend a financial planning class, or at least read some good books on the subject.

And finally talk with your husband about your shared visions. What are they? Where do you want to be 5 years down the road? Does he still want to be with you?

Even though he has his own set of problems, you need to address your own problems, as a stand-alone thing, to get through this. You can't say "Yes, I need to work on this, BUT you need to xxx." Uh-uh. He may in fact need to work on other things but there is no connection between the two.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I can understand why he’s not letting it go, I see so much deflection and putting this back on him - he should have this, he should have that, and now he needs to this, this and this or else I can’t.

You’re not fully owning it, not one bit. You’re not really remorseful at all, and he can feel this! You’re making it conditional and you cannot do this - you are 100% to blame for the debt.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Luckylucky said:


> I can understand why he’s not letting it go, I see so much deflection and putting this back on him - he should have this, he should have that, and now he needs to this, this and this or else I can’t.
> 
> You’re not fully owning it, not one bit. You’re not really remorseful at all, and he can feel this! You’re making it conditional and you cannot do this - you are 100% to blame for the debt.


She may not be 100% to blame for the debt but she is 100% to blame for the hiding of the debt. TWICE.


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## swanee (Dec 19, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> I can understand why he’s not letting it go, I see so much deflection and putting this back on him - he should have this, he should have that, and now he needs to this, this and this or else I can’t.
> 
> You’re not fully owning it, not one bit. You’re not really remorseful at all, and he can feel this! You’re making it conditional and you cannot do this - you are 100% to blame for the debt.


You are way off base here. I am completely remorseful and feel guilty beyond words. I'm not making anything conditional either. What i'm to blame for is hiding this and lying about it. I didn't create this debt on my own but because of the betrayal and the deception, I do take 100% responsibility. I'm not deflecting.. All I'm saying is that we had some underlying issues in our marriage before and we both need to get those addressed and worked on in order to move forward.


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## swanee (Dec 19, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Whatever was causing you to hide the debt and financial situation in general from him likely still exists. You knew you were spending over your head, and to cover your tracks, you went to your credit cards. That can be evidence of an addiction, and over the years, your husband has probably seen some of the evidence but never put it together.
> 
> I see three issues here. One, your husband. Sorry, but you can't do much to change his mind based on reason, or love. Because the second reason is betrayal- he may feel very much like someone who's discovered their spouse's affair. The secrecy, the way things were covered up, the suspicion that he doesn't know everything. And third, as mentioned above, your willingness to spend beyond your means.
> 
> ...


This is some good advice and I appreciate your taking the time to write it out. I think one thing that really resonated with me is what is our "shared vision"... This is something that we never really talked about. In speaking with my sister in law, she was telling me how all of her paycheck goes right into savings and everything is paid out of my brother in law's check. This was something they consciously sat down and discussed and definitely something we need to make a plan to do going forward if we are to stay together. I've looked into some financial planning/counseling through my work in addition to doing some counseling we will start this week. Thanks again for your input.


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