# she won't even try



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I am in bad shape. I have been married to the best woman I have ever known for 10 1/2 years. We have 2 unbelievable boys (5 & 6). My wife and I have been having real problems for about a year now. I have not been a saint. I never cheated on her. She is very emotional and for the first several years of our marriage, I did not offer the emotional support that I should have. A year ago we lost a 38 yr old friend suddenly. It was an eye opener for both of us. I realized what is important in life. I made the commitment to myself to change the way I view everything. I have been trying to make my wife understand this. I have apologized profusely. I have started to open up to her emotionally. I have never opened up to anyone in my 40 years. She had an emotional affair for 8 months through email and texts. I forgave her because I knew where she was emotionally. She committed to cut if off in January. I recently asked her if she had contacted him again and she said yes...she sent him a 2 word text on his birthday. I lost it. We had a fight. I cooled off and spent 2 days writing her a completely non confrontational letter that explained pretty much everything that is in my head. I met with our therapist and included some ideas to help us start to reconcile our differences. She read it and told me she wants a divorce. We both acknowledge that we have not made a concerted effort to save our marriage. She just says she's done....doesn't want to try anymore. Wants to throw everything away because she doesn't want to try. She has not empathized with me on one single situation for the past year. She seems to have romanticized the entire idea of divorce....she will be happy, our kids will be happy because she is happy, etc. Incidently, 3 yrs ago I left my successful and promising career to move our family back close to our hometowns. I am trying to get a business started and she has been the only really bread winner. She just keeps saying that she needs to do what's best for her and that I can't tell her what to do. She just says she doesn't want to try anymore. I really think she is going through a midlife crisis. I know she is going to deeply regret this if it proceeds. She is already on medication for depression. What can I do???? How can I save my family????


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## d1221 (Mar 13, 2011)

reallyover?

Sorry to hear what you are going through!

How long has she been consistent about saying she wants a divorce? Is she willing to go to MC?


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

It's only been 3 days....we have been to counseling a few times.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

sounds similar to my situation...looking back i think i pushed my wife to much to tell me she wasnt going to do it and to give me some hope...she just felt more pressurised and it backed her into a corner where i forced her to make a decision

i would give her a bit of breathing space and time to think...in the meantime try and put into practice some of the things she would like you to change


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

ilovemywife7 said:


> sounds similar to my situation...looking back i think i pushed my wife to much to tell me she wasnt going to do it and to give me some hope...she just felt more pressurised and it backed her into a corner where i forced her to make a decision
> i would give her a bit of breathing space and time to think...in the meantime try and put into practice some of the things she would like you to change


Thank you. I am trying to do that. Extremely difficult do be cordial to a woman that's ripping your heart out and splitting our family under these circumstances. We are grunge to stay in the same house.....not sure if its a good idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, i had the same thing...but i moved out and was a big mistake...she wouldnt let me back into the house after 3 months separation and last saturday called the police when i said i was moving back..its all on another thread...its best to stay put

good luck i hope it works out ok


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## WomanScorned (May 8, 2011)

I'm sorry about the midlife crisis. My ex is having a typical one with a 21 year old girlfriend for an affair. He wasn't interested in saving our family or marriage of 18 years, either. You have to accept that you cannot change her mind, and it's her decision and ultimately her loss that she will break up the family. I take responsibility for my part in a lousy marriage, but I WILL NOT take responsibility for breaking up my family. I've told him that numerous times. But when they make up their minds, it doesn't matter what you want anymore. I don't know how you accept it, but you have to to move forward with your life, and for the sake of your children. Good luck to you.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

reallyover, I ask myself is it really over too... It's not that I'm giving up due to our marriage not being as good as it could be, its not even because she cheated, its because she just walked away from it, doesn't even want to work on it, left me hanging and I now need to deal with it.

Mine has a romanticized view of the separation too, thinking it will allow her to solve all her problems or atleast make her happier, doesn't realize that she is in the fog of cheating. And it is all just so hasty.

With yours, I don't know if its the euphoria of the EA that is making her so sure or if its just the idea is stuck in her head. Obviously at this point your marriage is meaningless or worthless to her and that hurts, so I feel your pain. When I was at this point in my breakup I got good advice from a friend - just take control of the things you can have control over, if there is something you can do to give yourself some sense of accomplishment do it, something around the house broken go fix it etc.


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## staircase (May 16, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> It's only been 3 days....we have been to counseling a few times.


That's not very much time at all. Like others have said, give her some space and time. Maybe the reality of what she is asking for hasn't set in yet.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She's right. You can't tell her what to do.

At this point I would back off and give her some space. Tell her you are committed to the marriage and willing to do any/everything to fix it. That you realize waht you contributed to where you are now as well as how her EA put your marriage in this position. Tell her you're committed to restoring the marriage and that it takes two.

Leave the ball in her court. Don't beg her though.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I cannot offer enough thanks for the feedback. I am obviously in a pretty tough mental place and the comments really help give me clarity on how to proceed. I love my wife more than anything in this world. I cannot see a future without her. If you knew who I was, it would amaze you to see me write this. She is completely oblivious to the gutwrenching aspects of divorce. Thinks it won't be hard on the kids if we love them. She can buy a house with a white picket fence and sip coffee while the kids play hopscotch on the sidewalk with all their new friends......very naive. I went through it at 12 when my parents divorced. A truly brutal experience for everyone. She has been the primary bread winner for the last 2+ years by a long shot. I think I would be considered a primary caregiver over that time. I have a very strong family network locally...she does not. I suggested she go speak to an attorney to get "guidance". I have no desire to get into an ugly divorce with my wife but I think it may be an eye opener to see the worst case scenario. On my side, I am going to have to try to control my temper as we try to cohabitate. It seems I am going to have to try to show her what I can be even though she acts likes she hates me at times and doesn't trust anything I say. It will be very difficult. She is the most unselfish person I know and this is the most selfish attitude I have ever personally seen......just tries to justify everything because she thinks it is best for her and will help her find happiness.....going to be a tough road.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Thinking of getting the kids out of the house for a few days to let her experience an empty house and absolute silence.......


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Any opinions on if I should confront this guy and tell him to contact her and ask not to contact him anymore???? She may see promise there and it could be giving her some hope of a future.....I think it would be a quick hit and onto the next one for him....but what do I know. If I was this guy and someone's husband confronted me....I think I'd say "yessir"....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry I glossed over the affair part...

Is he married? Or girlfriend? If he has a partner, tell her today. When was his bday? The thing is your wife never ended contact with her affair partner (and wishing him a happy birthday is still staying in contact with someone she betrayed you with) therefore ti's very likely she is still in the fog. "The Fog" of the affair.

When it's infidelity, it's a whole different monster to handle.

I wouldn't fight her AT ALL on what she feels but make it very clear the relationship isn't workin gout for you either this way--with her carrying on with the man she betrayed you with. 

You have zero marriage or chance of reconciliation as lon gas she's in contact with this guy.

ZERO.

So you need to tell her that as long as a third party is involved, you also aren't interested in reconciliation. That you won't stand idly by while she carries on with a third party.

Take some of the control back. 

Treat her as you would a co-worker: cool, calm, confident, NO EMOTIONS.

But DO state your boundaries: that you won't live in an open marriage.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> Any opinions on if I should confront this guy and tell him to contact her and ask not to contact him anymore???? She may see promise there and it could be giving her some hope of a future.....I think it would be a quick hit and onto the next one for him....but what do I know. If I was this guy and someone's husband confronted me....I think I'd say "yessir"....


I struggled with deciding if this was an appropriate action to do or not. 1) she has probably told him all sorts of misleading info to ensure he knows shes available to him, he may not know that you are trying to save the marriage. 2) he probably knows and just doesn't care just wants sex 3) it will get a reaction from your wife, she might be really angry at you but its not your problem 4) if you feel it will help you I think its within your rights to do so, just don't expect much to come of it, it won't affect the outcome of their relationship

In my case I went and texted the guy from my wife's phone explaining my side of the situation. I have no regrets about doing this, and it did get to my wife - she felt some shame for her bad decision to leave our child and me behind as I was just recovering from surgery. But as I said it didn't really affect the outcome, him and my wife are still having their "relationship".


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

she went from January til May with no contact. she said her text was two words....gave this slug hope. I know the strategy...sit in the weeds until something happens and here I am. He doesn't feel guilty because he wasn't aggressively pursuing her. That's why I wonder if it's worth telling HIM I know what's up....he is divorced and my wife told me he cheated on his wife when they were seperated.

BTW, she will not to this day acknowledge that she had an EA. Says she was just talking to an old friend from high school. She has this thing in her mind that she cannot let me win anything, be right about anything. She thinks I'm trying to "control" her by saying she needs to cut off contact. I asked her to commit that she would and she went into a grey area. I told her that if she couldn't do it, we were over and I left. She backed off and said she would. I wrote her the note and she said she wanted a divorce. I can't threaten her with not trying to reconcile....that's what she wants at the moment.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> BTW, she will not to this day acknowledge that she had an EA. .


If that is the case, I'd let go fast. If she can't even admit and own that her affair was in fact an affair, then there isn't anything to work on. Until she can own her part, you don't stand a chance. And if she's still in touch with him, no dice.

Her saying you're trying to control her by telling her to cut off contact with the man she betrayed you with is utter BS. And you know it. 

How did you find out about it? What were there texts about? How did you discover the affair? 



reallyover? said:


> I can't threaten her with not trying to reconcile....that's what she wants at the moment.


Then give it to her. 100%.

I am telling you, the more you fight her on what SHE WANTS, the worse off for you. Accept her decision. Act like you are moving on to. Respect yourself. If she sees you crying and begging forher back, it's going to make her want to run faster and farther away from you. 

You could post this thread in "Coping with Infidelity" so you can get more responses... and also add more details on the affair.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I did tell my wife that since this is her decision, she has couch duty. Also if we cannot live together in a civil manner, she would be the one leaving the house. She couldn't believe I told her that.......first time I was strong with her about anything other than this EA in a LOOONG time.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

And I agree with you. The person who wants out should be the one to leave if they are making no effort to work things out.

See how respecting yourself WORKS? She prob thought you were going to tell her to stay in bed and please cuddle with you and you will give her wahtever she wants in the divorce and she can keep her "friend" and you guys can all meet up for lunch one day to share her. 

LOL


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> I did tell my wife that since this is her decision, she has couch duty. Also if we cannot live together in a civil manner, she would be the one leaving the house. She couldn't believe I told her that.......first time I was strong with her about anything other than this EA in a LOOONG time.


good for you!


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Jelly...I do get it. I have been giving her a little rope just because she is exceptionally emotional and I have been the polar opposite my entire life up until the last year or so. I kind of empathize with her side a little, by no means excusing anything though...she crossed a definite line. I found two emails in Jan...just talking about us fighting again....she was planning to call him on Christmas Day...she was concerned what would happen if she left me...etc. You know....just talking to a HS friend, yeah right. Nothing sexual at all. She is very messed up mentally and I have been trying to see things from her side. The problem overall is that she absolutely has no had any empathy for my perspective on anything in over a year. I can tell you that she would be one of the absolute nicest people you have ever met...except with me. Can't seem to bring herself to forgive me.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I really am transforming how I interact with everyone and have received a long list of acknowledgement from people that they see the changes. My wife even acknowledges it. I had deep intimacy issues as a result of my parents marriage but I have made big strides in the last year despite utter rejection from the person I want to notice it most.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

jelly...I hear you on the lack of acknowledgement. This is a complex issue though. I think whe really does see the issue. She can't admit to me that she was wrong. I have talked intensely with her best friend who says there is nothing really there between the two. She was in counselling for months while this was happening and she didn't even mention it to her therapist.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

My wife's friends whom were lifelong friends, said the same thing that there was nothing going on between her and the OM. And, Like yours, my wife used the words "I am Done", meaning, she didnt want the marriage anymore. 
It sounds to me, like your wife is still involved in her emotional affair, in the fog, and your history together has been rewritten in her own mind already. 
your wife, and my wife sound like twins, especially mentally. The thought processes you revealed about her were highly aggravating to me. Not being able to admit that having an affair is a) what she was doing and b) wrong as wrong can be, just sounded so familiar.
You cannot seek forgiveness, or closeness from someone who is in your wifes mindset. It sounds like she is using your past issues as fuel to justify her actions in her head, and even if you take those issues away, or fix them, in her mind, it will be too late, because really, thats all she has to blame this all on. 
Ever-ready to shift that blame, that fault, that lack of character becuase to acknowledge it would ultimately take away the last thread of self respect she somehow thought she had.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> jelly...I hear you on the lack of acknowledgement. This is a complex issue though. I think whe really does see the issue. She can't admit to me that she was wrong.


This is a major major problem, IMO.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I agree. She is dug in and cannot bring herself to feel "controlled" by me in any way. She acts like I've had her locked in the basement for 6 years.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Shoo, you nailed it. Don't know how to get her out of the funk though. My last real hope it that when she realizes that this divorce has potential, not that I want it to be, disaster written all over it for her maybe the head will be removed quickly from the tightening grip of the sphincter.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Controlled...
As if she wasnt a grown woman able to say something if feeling that way.
More "justifications" to hold onto dear life that last shred of misguided self-respect.
If you have kids, expect to hear that "we shouldnt stay together just because of them.." as an off-base reason to not work it out. 
Its really sad that none of the reasons that ARE definitely there that make your marriage worthwhile and supportable arent able to be seen right now, nor are they "willing" to be seen by her.
They are the extents of the "fog" that totally consumes someone in an affair.
---listen to me giving advice like I aint sittin here with my face in my hands....

Just know, that you are not the only one going through this right now this very moment of June 21, 2011. 
It truly is no consolation Im sure, but it is honest empathy and understanding.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> Shoo, you nailed it. Don't know how to get her out of the funk though. My last real hope it that when she realizes that this divorce has potential, not that I want it to be, disaster written all over it for her maybe the head will be removed quickly from the tightening grip of the sphincter.


I am afraid that relying on a potential divorce having an affect on her decisions, may leave you open for further disappointment. In my situation, it was decided for me. My wife used the divorce as a means to "escape" her guilt and the acknowledgment of wrongdoing. Of course, we know this to be faulty thinking, as they have to look themselves in the mirror from this point on. So far however, they havent truly examined their own selves, and arent of the proper mindset to want to.
In a sense they only think they have control of themselves, when they dont, and are using everything "circumstantial" rather than accepting that as human beings, everyone makes mistakes and must learn to apologize and make things right if they want to. 
Our wives, seem to either have not reached that point of maturity in their lives, or perhaps its another part of the fog that prevents it,, I am not sure. 
Just dont set yourself up for further disappointment or pain. I really hope it can work for you, but in the meantime, prepare your heart for anything that could happen.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks Shoo....already heard about the kids. It would be crazy to try to work it out for them. They will be happier in divorce because Mom will be happy...don't you understand that? LOL but not really. I am prepared for the worse but hoping for some progress. I wish I could get her to see what is so frickin obvious. What also kills me is that if we do divorce, she is in for a world of hell whenever she does wake up. She is an incredible person with the exception of this issue and it will be devastating to her to know she has devastated our kids family.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

It's a hail mary pass i guess. Come on Flutie!!!


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Reallyover?, I am afraid of the lifting of the fog for my wife too.
Despite alllllll the years of struggle, shes not an evil person. Weak willed and immature for sure, in a lot of ways. I guess thats one of the deceptive issues with getting caught up and involved with someone else outside of the marriage. Waking up after its too late, and realizing finally how badly they fked up.
For now my wife uses the phrase, "I will have to just deal with my decisions, good or bad" as if some great philosophical piece of wisdom from atop the mountain, stroking her proverbial beard...
but theres me, and theres our kid too. So no where are we in that statement.
Problem is, what happens when that ball is back in our court, and they DO realize what theyve done. Have we gone through this great hell of our own for nothing?, Do we conceed, and wonder if there is any dignity in ourselves? 
Dignity, does it have a place between two people promised to one another at some time?

I truly worry about that. The time may or may not come when the fog clears and for all the reasons in the world I could accept her back, but even typing that right here brings with it a twinge within me of being a pushover, or some similar adjective..
I would think she would eventually want some sense of "sureness" about my answer, and after all this I dont know if I could give it.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Shoo, dignity and pride...running in short supply now. After talking to a good friend today, I wonder if that has something to do with it. She has driven me into the frickin ground over the past year. Like a whipped puppy. Women like confidence, swagger and humor. Got none of that right now. I need to pull my head out of my buttocks and be the man I am but it's so damn hard when everything is stacked against me. I can tell you, I would not take her back down the road. I am typically not a very forgiving person. I have forgiven a lot from her over this past year and she's kicking my teeth in. Don't see any way to get that one out of my head if this continues on this path.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

you know what I just realized....even if this ends, I can at least feel like I have done everything in my power to save our marriage. It's a selfish thought but it makes me feel better. My actions have led to problems in our marriage but I have tried like hell to fix them. Sadly, my wife may not realize her side of this until many lives are crushed. Frickin sad man.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Its funny, I was at a party this past weekend, and heard a girl talking about how she just wanted to meet a "nice guy" for once, and being tired of all the b.s.
Its as if we as men, start off confident and strong, but in ways change in order to meet needs and expectations of women. In those changes we undermine who we are somehow, and become exactly what it is they "think" they do not want.
Then they act a fool, and ruin it, searching for mr. confident only to find him with a bunch of other women, unable to commit, and they come 360 degrees back to wanting what it is we became while trying to build a life with them.
It sounds like a freakin mess.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

maybe that's why some guys switch teams???? LOL. Good stuff.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> you know what I just realized....even if this ends, I can at least feel like I have done everything in my power to save our marriage. It's a selfish thought but it makes me feel better. My actions have led to problems in our marriage but I have tried like hell to fix them. Sadly, my wife may not realize her side of this until many lives are crushed. Frickin sad man.


it is sad.. but you are right. and doing everything possible to save your marriage counts for everything now and down the road. It isnt selfish at all. 
Your actions have led to problems, but so has everyones actions in all marriages. You at least have the sense to acknowledge your part in it, and she seems to be lacking that right now due to influence from something else.
It surely takes two to make it work, and to decide to keep on making it work.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Our kids don't deserve this. Good news that we have a minimum 6 month cooling off period for marriages with kids. Is that good news?? She is going to really dislike herself if this keeps rolling.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Shoo, RO, I'm right there with you guys, I am so connected to this thread right now... exactly how I'm viewing life right now, what is it about us "nice guys" that we've let it get to this point??


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Don't know....not typically a nice guy if I'm being honest. I am naturally a raging type a personality. this last year I've allowed myself to be a doormat because of the guilt I felt for my wife's state. I need to find the right equilibrium. Seeing her curled up on the couch tonight is going to be the first step in the right direction in a long time. Not going back to where I was but I'm turning around from where I've been. I feel pathetic about myself. Unbelievable. If you give an inch they take a mile???? Dunno.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Lon said:


> Shoo, RO, I'm right there with you guys, I am so connected to this thread right now... exactly how I'm viewing life right now, what is it about us "nice guys" that we've let it get to this point??


I think we did what we thought was the right thing. Our core told us to take care of the ones we love. Even if that meant to make changes in ourselves throughout the years. To become something our wives decided they didnt like was a function of their own infidelity and weakness, not out of becoming better men. I personally think this "alpha-male" strategy is a load of crap, because all to often my life has demanded a softer touch to many issues. Plus, my goal in life is not to keep a stringer full of women that LOOK for that, therefore always being on the hunt for the rest of their lives.
I am content in my strength and ability, as much as I am in my ability to be tender towards situations that require it.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Shoo, I agree with you. I was always very focused on work and probably took my wife for granted more than anything. I need to find the switch to turn on between work and family. I never looked for it. I couldn't agree with you more.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I know the guilt you are talking about, I became a doormat and I recently realized at some level it was to compensate for the guilt I felt from seeing my wife so depressed and imprisoned during the first couple years of raising child. I wasn't a useless parent at first but I eventually submitted to her complaints and unjust criticisms. When she was able to start having more time for herself it became my duty to let her live her life, and suck it up. Still, her mere presence just makes me go blank and useless...


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

don't put it on yourself. tough to explain the need for the selfish behavior. My wife's been doing it for months and I can't figure out why she can see that marriage needs "some" boundaries. Just thinks that the mere mention of me not being comfortable with some behavior that any rational person would know is inappropriate for a married person to partake in means that I'm a control freak and don't want her to do anything on her own. Ridiculous.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

I hear a lot of men talking about getting too involved with work. But whats behind that? The desire to "provide" and increase the lifestyle of your loved ones? What man wouldnt see that as paramount to his expression of care for his family. All too often it is used against us when it as no relevance, pertaining to the wife's lack of appreciation or desire to screw around with someone else. Not only is it to put food on the table, but to provide for retirement together, to be able to afford critical things like healthcare and transportation. Geez, the implications of hard work are sooo far reaching and to whose benefit? A wife that would rather throw it away for some turd with no job, and a couch fit to be burned.
I dont know. I cant make sense of it. Ive worked at a job for over fifteen years that gives very little in terms of increases. Over the years my wife's job gave her yearly increases of 2%, 4% and so forth. To the point that eventually her income was greater than mine. My pride took a hit of course, but I knew I still did my part. Maybe I should have gone and gotten a job that paid more, but only to keep above hers? I dont know. Among working the job, keeping the house maintained and automobiles working and addressing issues like that around the house, still gave me a place.
It was until SHE decided that another man was too tempting and fantastic to exercise some self control that I had some sense of standing in my house and family. How it all hinges on so very little.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> don't put it on yourself. tough to explain the need for the selfish behavior. My wife's been doing it for months and I can't figure out why she can see that marriage needs "some" boundaries. Just thinks that the mere mention of me not being comfortable with some behavior that any rational person would know is inappropriate for a married person to partake in means that I'm a control freak and don't want her to do anything on her own. Ridiculous.


I will bet up until the OM came into the picture those boundaries you mention were very much expected of you.
That whole "control" accusation was one I heard all along as well. Funny how the lack of self control on their part is never mentioned. 
My wifes actions make me think I should have been a hellll of a lot more controlling than I was. at least we could have afforded this divorce...


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

For me it was just an overall mentality. Quick decisions, black and white a lot of the time. Supreme confidence. All working towards a need to succeed. My problem was I was like that at home too. I think it was immaturity that led to my not being able to see my wife needed me to slow down at home and communicate on her emotional level. I think I felt that she knew who I was when we were married so she must like it. Never really realized that a marriage needs focused attention too. I see it now. Sadly the delay has caused a lot of pain.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I think we really got screwed by moving back home. Been away for over a decade and were forced to meet new friends which was tough on my wife. We moved back here and now it a mad dash to reconnect with all of those wonderful people from high school that were so important that there was no need to communicate with them for the past 15 years. She was emotionally damaged and any man that gave her any emotional attention would be intriguing. I really think that is what led to this EA.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

One of the things that I believe contributed to my wifes interest in another man, was the lack of "character-rich" people in her life. you know, those positive, morally charged people that would have had influence in those areas that are now so questionable in her mind. I currently have a house full of her books and CDs and movies etc., and when i look at them, they ALL deal with some form of infidelity occurring, and they glorify it, and make it out to be something to be desired and adding spice to her life, often going to the extent of degrading a family-life by picking it apart and making it seem imposing and contrite. With this kind of influence, and her support group of friends that are all single or very liberal in their boundaries, its no wonder I had a very hard time combating her immediate switch to Ho-Bag.
She was somehow convinced that her life was mundane and lacking any spice. The subject of just about every piece of literature she owns.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Plus, the midlife crisis shes extremely embedded in right now, and the Xanax for anxiety attacks, the freaking unimaginable debt she is personally in despite her ability to "overlook" it. 
How the deck somehow evolved into being stacked against me can be easily outlined. But here I am going through it, attempting to deal with it all. Let me try to consider some distant future where I can breathe again.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Shoo....I'm with you there man. My wife's best friend and her brother are her two closest confidants. They are in trainwreck marriages. I have mentioned to her that she may want to seek guidance from them in addition to someone in a stable marriage. Of course I'm an idiot for even suggesting that their problems have any impact on her judgment. Cannot say anything that makes sense to her. So bitter towards me. Absolutely frustrating.


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## WomanScorned (May 8, 2011)

Your wives sound like my ex. He's a guy, but he's been telling me all the same things, not owning up to the affair, telling me I'm too controlling....etc. So men can do the same thing. I just hope that one day they wake up and realize what they lost and just what they've done to their kids. It might not be until they're on their death beds, but hopefully it WILL happen.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

just found a pretty good definition of EA on wikipedia....that'll be on her desk tomorrow....maybe I'm not crazy....maybe they do exist....maybe they are destructive to a family structure


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## WomanScorned (May 8, 2011)

Reallyover: You bet EAs are real, but very easy for the ones involved to ignore as an affair. "It's just a friend". If it's just a friend, can we all go out to lunch together? I'll bet she'd say 'no'. That's not a friend. That's an affair.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Great point...might have to steal that one from ya. Thanks. You might be scorned but you're pretty helpful.


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## WomanScorned (May 8, 2011)




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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

Going through the same things WW wont admit an affair not sorry, disgusted with her life and her friends support her feelings for the OM. Funny one of her friens is 40 and single no kids the other married beacuse of money. Sister never been married babys dad let her. After a couple of weekends of what she is doing my friends would kick me in the butt and tell me to go home and work it out.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

As I think this through...I am really starting to feel bad for my wife believe it or not. She is destroying our family because she is incapable of rational thought at the moment. She will wake up in a year or two and be absolutely devastated. Makes no sense that people can see the forest through the trees sometimes.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Das,....the unwavering supportive friend thing drives me insane. yeah friends need to offer support but ADVICE too. My wifes friends and her entire family have that mentality. No one to slap her in the head and ask her what the hell she's thinking. They just give her a hug and tell her they're there for her. Grow a pair for G sake......


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## sadand (Apr 2, 2011)

I keep hoping that as my H gets that kind of feedback from his friends it will influence him too. He is destroying our family without even trying to be here


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I just "confronted" the W with the EA definition. She glanced at it....don't think she'll even read the whole thing. What she did was text book definition. She says in one breath that she did it and the next she calls him a friend again. It is crazy how she tries to justify everything in her head to keep herself from feeling responsible for any of what is happening. What is unbelievable is that we had the same trigger....the death of our young friend. I decided to change my entire life for the better, she decided to look elsewhere. This shouldn't happen to a marriage....can't believe it's not worth effort to her. I feel so bad for our kids.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

here's a snapshot into her mind at the moment......she is going to take the wikipedia definition of an Emotional Affair that I gave her this morning and highlight the parts of it that DO NOT apply to her situation. Holy Shi..............


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> It is crazy how she tries to justify everything in her head to keep herself from feeling responsible for any of what is happening.


It's actually NOT crazy. This is the exact way that every wayward and cheating spouse acts. That is why they call it The Script.

YOU KNOW full well the truth: that an affair partner is not a "friend." 

So next time she throws taht "friend" BS line at you tell her "Stop. You and I both know that someone you have an affair with isn't a 'friend.' If you refuse to admit that, then that is your problem to work through." and change the discussion.

Don't print out anything for her anymore. She has already made her choice. Don't try to convince her into staying. Don't try to tell her all the reasons why your relationship is salvageable. This will only push her away. I know it goes against every fiber of your being of doing waht you want to do, but the more you pursue, the faster she'll run away from you.

You need to start thinking logically. What if I posted to you that my husband had an emotional affair and is calling the OW a "friend?" And that I told him he had an EA but he blew it off saying it's only a friend but admits to an affair with her and by the way, he said he wants a divorce.

You would tell me what?

You'd tell me to get my self-respect back, stop chasing him and tell him, "Fine. If that is what you want, you got it but I won't stick around waiting for you if you change your mind. I won't accept the relationship this way either."

STAND BACK. I am telling you, you are doing things to harm your marriage if you don't back off immediately. Give her what she wants in spades. She cannot miss you at all if you are always there for her.

START DOING 180s!


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Jelly, I know you're right. I hope I have the resolve. It is so damn hard, mostly because of the kids. I drove them to daycare this morning and they were completely silent. It is affecting them already and my wife and I have been cordial and don't argue in front of the kids. I feel so damn bad for them. I know what effect it will have on them. My W does not. I know that taking your suggestion would end up being the best thing for them as well if she wakes up....gotta try to keep that in the front of my mind. Man is that tough......


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Remember, none of this was YOUR choice so she is the one who needs to be feeling bad. All you can do is be the best dad for your kids. Show them what a good role model is.


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## DasAstro (Jun 16, 2011)

i tried the same things as everyone at first, pleding, crying, begging trying to explian to WW what an emotional affair is. she just ignored it. It took a while for me to come to my senses if she wants the OM than have fun but i am not going to be her doormat, her fallback guy, always there for her. its hard and everyday is a struggle but just keep on with the 180, come here and post talk to other people about anything. When i think about it will the OP do the things you do for your WS i doubt it. Will the WS really be happy with the OP i dont think so, they will still have the same issues bills, kids, work and themselves to deal with. Find some positive music to listen to, exercise is a great thing, read a book i guess last book i read was curious george lol. do something you always wanted to do something small for now but you will feel better. We where all single at one time and we where ok, we cant allow ourselves to be mentally abused and pooped on anymore. And if you have kids we dont want to set the example that this is ok


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I am unbelievably tempted to send this guy a note and tell him I know what he's doing and tell him we're working our marriage and don't need the distraction he represents. I am pretty confident he wouldn't tell my wife about it. I'd be scared sh**less if some woman's husband was on to me. I know it doesn't fix the underlying problem here but him sending my wife a note telling her not to contact him anymore may be the only way to get my wife out of the funk. If she is thinking about even slight chance of something developing with him later on that is giving her strength to crush our family??? Maybe she would reevaluate our situation with clearer vision??? Maybe it's the only shot of us fixing the actual intimacy problems in our marriage???? Is my head screwed up?


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## Thorn407 (Jun 22, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> I am unbelievably tempted to send this guy a note and tell him I know what he's doing and tell him we're working our marriage and don't need the distraction he represents. I am pretty confident he wouldn't tell my wife about it. I'd be scared sh**less if some woman's husband was on to me. I know it doesn't fix the underlying problem here but him sending my wife a note telling her not to contact him anymore may be the only way to get my wife out of the funk. If she is thinking about even slight chance of something developing with him later on that is giving her strength to crush our family??? Maybe she would reevaluate our situation with clearer vision??? Maybe it's the only shot of us fixing the actual intimacy problems in our marriage???? Is my head screwed up?



Reallyover, I've done what you want to do. It worked both ways. It bit me in the ace and the Other guy knew I was onto him. I'm not proud of it but made it clear I was going to pull a Tony Saprano on his ace. Then once again her sister took the lead in sending more threating emails.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

How'd it bite you???? At the very least I'd like that parasite to be nervous.....


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## Thorn407 (Jun 22, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> How'd it bite you???? At the very least I'd like that parasite to be nervous.....


Because both of the FWB's ran to her and told her what I said. then the threats from her sister started again. Personally I don't have a problem with doing what needs to be done. At this point I really have nothing left to loose. :lol:

Let me be clear on one thing. I'm going to end someones life. but I will beat the tar out of someone and remove a few teeth with my boot.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

YOur head isn't screwed up for you are going through a very traumatic experience right now. It's a wonder any of us survive this BS. And in way, it's good we DO survive cause when we come out on the other end we think, Daaamn... I am tough.

STOP pursuing her. Give her what she wants. She wants out, let her go!

As for contact OM, that is up to you. If you wanted to you could email/call him saying

_ "I am aware you are involved in an affair with my wife since about January. She openly admitted this to me & I am also aware you're in contact with her. Your name may end up called in our divorce motions in court, so I am letting you know in advance. If I were you I would get tested for STDs and then go go back and re-test in 6 months. I am sorry I have to be the one to tell you this if she did not."_

That will def get his attention. It isn't threatening and the STD thing sounds like you are watching out for him, like a pal, LOL

If you decide to send him something, RUN IT BY US FIRST ok? We'll help you critique it.


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## Thorn407 (Jun 22, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> YOur head isn't screwed up for you are going through a very traumatic experience right now. It's a wonder any of us survive this BS. And in way, it's good we DO survive cause when we come out on the other end we think, Daaamn... I am tough.
> 
> STOP pursuing her. Give her what she wants. She wants out, let her go!
> 
> ...


I did that last part......
It sure can ruin a players lifestyle.
LOL


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Which part?


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Here's what I'm thinking.....
"Not knowing you, I mistakingly assumed you would do the right thing and tell my wife you were not interested in future contact of any kind from her after you received my last message. Apparently I need to be more clear and blunt. I am aware of your "lying in the weeds" strategy. You feel it doesn't make you look like you are pursuing her. You may even be able to not feel bad about yourself. As a man, a certain part of me appreciates the effectiveness of it. Where you have a problem is that you are using the strategy on a married woman. Where you have a really big problem is that I know who you are and you are using it on my wife who was in a difficult emotional state when you started your BS. You had an emotional affair with my wife. Since you haven't ended it, you are still having an emotional affair with my wife. We are working through issues in our marriage and outside distractions are not needed. You are an outside distraction. I assume that if you do choose to take this advice, your approach will not give any indication to my wife that it was in any way shape or form provoked by me. Please let me know if you have any questions or need further clarification. Oh, and happy belated birthday.


Just a rough draft.....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I dont' like it. It gives him too much power and you come across as threatening and like your wife had no part in it, like she was a victim. 

The last part is better: 

_You had an emotional affair with my wife. Since you haven't ended it, you are still having an emotional affair with my wife. We are working through issues in our marriage and outside distractions are not needed. You are an outside distraction._ 

**

DO NOT ask him if he has questions or needs clarification. That makes you look weak. You just need to state what you want an taht's it. And do NOT wish the guy who your wife is betraying you with a happy birthday. F him.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Jelly...I get it. The only reason for the Birthday wishes is that was what my wife's last text to him is regarding. With regards to the control thing...I get that too. I have a problem though. This guy has not been initiating contact with her. For the last 5 months, there have been only 2 texts and my wife sent it. He is just lingering out there....any suggestions to get him to cut it off????


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

No no no. don't wish him a happy birthday. 

Well if she is still getting messages from him she wasn't truly committed to NO contact.

CHeck this out: I had someone calling me a lot after I told them I was NOT interested in speaking with them. Person won't stop calling me, even late hours on the weekend. Y aknow what I did on Sunday?? 

Called the cell phone company to block the #. Now the person can't call me again.


Really--if she didn't want him to reach out to her, she'd end it. But she wants out, so let her GO.

If you want to, write him but don't wish him a happy birthday or day or anything. Just call him a spade like you see it...that you are hip to their affair, aware they are in contact, and he should get tested for STDs--that she admitted "everything" to you (be vague that way). You can also tell him how she told you contact ended but she says he won't leave her alone (this will get his goat and he will tell you, if it's the truth--how she won't leave him the F alone). 

You can't MAKE him stop. Only SHE can.

I cheated in my marriage (not proud of that). Believe me, if she wants to, she will stop.

She doesn't WANT to.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Ask yourself if it is worth even fighting this? Are you really sure you can recover your marriage after all of this? You will be carrying this stigma with you for the rest of your marriage and I am willing to go out on a limb and say that you will not treat her the same as before; you might become more distant and that will in turn hurt your marriage. Again - can you really get 100% past this because if you can't, and lie to yourself, and her, you could be wasting valuable precious time in your life. Now, if you are doing this for the kids and are willing to sacrifice your total happiness for that you have a serious decision to make.

I did this 11 years ago. I thought I had really worked through it, but quite honestly, now that I have had time to think, I was probably doing it to hold on to her and for the kids. I have to confess that I did not give her as much affection as I should have and I am wondering if it isn't because I was just too damaged inside from her ifidelity. 11 yrs later, she asked me for a divorce. I am now 50, I could have started being re-singled at 40.

You have a tough decision to make my friend. Either way, I am sorry this is happening to you. And JB is right, h**ll NO! No birthday wishes for the pr***ck! Send him rat poison instead.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks again Jelly...just to further clarify, the bday thing is a smart ace thing...just letting him know I see some of their communications....trust me I'm not wishing this sum**** happy bday.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

She's not going to end it because she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong. The only reason I want him to end it is to try to kill any hope that my wife may have of a future with this guy. If that happens, MAYBE she'll use some reason when looking at our situation. Make sense?


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Bright, I am by nature not a forgiving person. Obviously, this situation has been unbelievably tense. My wife has some deep emotional issues right now that I had a role in creating. I hear what you're saying. I have asked myself the question many times. The answer to whether or not I could forgive her would really be determined by how much ownership she takes in the situation and by how much remorse she shows. I truly feel that she has the potential to wake up one day and realize what a complete and utter fool she has acted like...... If she completely crumbles and begs for forgiveness, I think I could forgive but not forget....otherwise I wouldn't be on this site right now. If she half heartedly does...I'm out.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I wouldn't wish him a happy birthday at all. HE KNOWS she's been in contact with him on his birthday. 


If she doesn't feel it's wrong then that is her problem, not yours. Don't stand by while she self-destructs. Protect yourself. Tell her you aren't down with the marriage as -is and it's over if she can't stop having affairs.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

reallyover, you are right. My stbxw seemed sincere at the time of asking forgiveness but to be honest, she really never seemed to be deeply hurt by her actions and in retrospect she never really owned up to it being her fault entirely. She said that she strayed because of my inability to meet her needs and she even in a round about way asked me to own up to being partially responsible. Had I not been so stupid back then, I would have said no F'n way will I apologize for her infidelity. So I guess if you see your W being truly remorseful and asking you to forgive her while taking full responsibility for her actions, then I think it could work. And, oh yeah, you can forgive but will never forget. But the forgiveness has to be genuine; you can't ever hang this over her later if you chose to reconcile. I wish you the best with this, I know what pain it causes.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Jelly, you're absolutely right. This site has helped me see things more clearly. I am starting to do the 180 thing. I told her this morning that I am done trying to convince her of anything and that this situation is on her. I have done all I can. She is making the decision to split this family and she will be the one racked with guilt down the road. I saw an immediate change in her demeanor. I need to get my mojo back. Done kissing her buttocks and being her doormat..........

Bright, good point on hanging it over her head....forgiveness should prevent that if this thing turns around. I hope I can remember that. First things first though...


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Yip, like I said, as long as she doesn't hold you partially responsible; which I would venture to guess she might.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Bright...I freely admit that my not being there for her emotionally left a major void in her life. I hurt her that way but in no way does that justify what she did.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

WOW....just noticed that she put the Wikipedia definition of EA I gave her this morning in her desk drawer. That can't be bad?? I figured that thing went in the trash before she sat down. Interesting....


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> She's not going to end it because she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong. The only reason I want him to end it is to try to kill any hope that my wife may have of a future with this guy. If that happens, MAYBE she'll use some reason when looking at our situation. Make sense?


RO my wife is doing the same thing, she is pursuing a relationship with this guy that started as a casual hookup at the bar, from what I can tell, and she thinks it is more and he obviously is leading her to believe there is more. It makes a lot of sense what you are saying... so am I worried about them making a future together? Kinda but not really: 1) I can see him for what he is and my only job is to prevent him from weasling his way into my child's other home, but when he gets bored or she asks for any kind of emotional commitment he will probably just go away 2) if he does commit and turns out to be a decent person after all ( though doubtful), well then I guess my wife will have found what she was looking for, I can possibly be happy for her but I will still have to guard my child until I feel safe with him around my son. Either way, my only concern in any of this is that my child never has people in his home who have no regard for him, nor do I want people he starts attaching to coming and going from his life. This is not the life I wanted to create when I married and had a family, but thats the way it goes sometimes, the trick to living is learning how to adapt.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Lon, It's tough. At our core I think we all want our spouses to be happy. The problem I am having is that I have made massive positive changes in the way I interact with people. I have become much more open and willing to have intimate conversations. During this revelation that I've had, my wife was carrying on with this frickin guy behind the scenes....no sex, they actually only saw eachother once....the first time they met since high school. I want my wife to he happy she is an incredible person with everything in the world except for me right now. My issue is that I truly believe my wife can be happy with me, even on an emotional level, for the first time in our lives. She won't give me the chance.......Unbelievably frustrating. I have turned my attention to myself and my kids. Let her sweat it out. I've done what I can do. You are right. Protecting your kids is paramount. Can't believe how many of these scumbags there are out there working on married women.....


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> Lon, It's tough. At our core I think we all want our spouses to be happy... I want my wife to he happy she is an incredible person with everything in the world except for me right now. My issue is that I truly believe my wife can be happy with me, even on an emotional level, for the first time in our lives. She won't give me the chance.......Unbelievably frustrating. I have turned my attention to myself and my kids. Let her sweat it out. I've done what I can do. You are right. Protecting your kids is paramount. Can't believe how many of these scumbags there are out there working on married women.....


Our wives' affairs are somewhat different but we are both pretty much in the same place, though I'm a little closer in my resolve to end it. I too believe my wife could be, and would have been, happy with me if she gave me a chance, but she hasn't been willing to give it a chance for sooo long. And yeah I am very disappointed with the slimeballs out there that are just preying on married women who also have closed up shop for their loving devoted husbands and are itching for intense affection. Anytime I hear leave-your-guy-cause-he-won't-treat-you-like-I-can songs I get livid, so disrespectful and I can't believe we as a society tolerate that.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

A few days into the 180.....wife doesn't know what to do. Goes from frantic to trying to out-happy me. Sad but funny to experience. I hope it's being effective......


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## Thorn407 (Jun 22, 2011)

OK i've been trying to figure this out. But WTH is a 180?


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## DelinquentGurl (Mar 25, 2011)

Thorn407 said:


> OK i've been trying to figure this out. But WTH is a 180?


It's basically the opposite of something you would normally do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SixMonthsInHell (Jun 27, 2011)

Kind folks: new member here. Not intending to hijack your thread. Have been dealing with same issues with my stbxw since January. I have heard the same script - 'i am done', 'kids will be happy when i am happy', etc. Together 18 years, 2 kids 13 and 11. There is at least an EA....damn FB. She is so determined, and focused and confident. Truly 6 months in hell. My big problem is moving on, having trouble accepting emotionally that it is over. I know it intellectually. 

It is astounding how common this seems to be.


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## WomanScorned (May 8, 2011)

A 180 is getting yourself fabulous in mental attitude and physical appearance to make yourself feel better, and in the process make the ex see exactly what he/she is missing. It works to boost your confidence, though I was pretty skeptical at first. I've done it, though, and damn, I'm hot  I feel SO much better about me.

Yes, it is amazing how common this all is. I like knowing I have support and plenty of people know how I feel. You know, I was just thinking I wanted to be where I was six months ago, but I don't really want to be there. I'm glad I'm here. I've grown as a person.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Tragically, I think I am filing for D tomorrow. I have begun to regain my self confidence and my self respect and now realize (mostly through a lot of feedback here) that I don't deserve the BS she has pulled. I have owned everything that I can think of on my side of our marriage. She will not own her EA. She is deep in the "Fog". If our marriage has any hope of reconciliation, she needs to have an epiphany and realize and own her wrongs and seek my forgiveness. Maybe my filing for D will lead to that. It's ironic and sad to think that I need to file for D as an attempt to save my marriage and family. Wow.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well, if you file for D, be prepared for it to shake out either way. 
She may wake up and she may not. The point of filing for divorce should never be as a "threat." It should be because you are ready to terminate a relationship. It shouldn't be used as "leverage."

Thing is--she won't own what she did. That is scary. And to me, you have zero marriage as long as she continues her affair and tells you herself she doesn't want to be married.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I filed. I am frickin sick to my stomach. What a brutal experience to cut ties legally with the most important thing in my life. WTH. I need to regain my composure before going home. Still trying to work the 180 and hoping for the R. I don't plan to tell her for a few days. She met with her atty today for the first time. Waiting to see if anything comes from that. Talked to W and explained what effect her EA had on me. She continues to bring up past experiences and tries to justify her actions. Continues to say she wants a D but hasn't filed????? What a brutal day. I am sad for my boys.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

When will she be served? 

I am sorry to hear of your pain today. It is gruelling. I do hope you do something nice for yourself today.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

SixMonthsInHell said:


> Kind folks: new member here. Not intending to hijack your thread. Have been dealing with same issues with my stbxw since January. I have heard the same script - 'i am done', 'kids will be happy when i am happy', etc. Together 18 years, 2 kids 13 and 11. There is at least an EA....damn FB. She is so determined, and focused and confident. Truly 6 months in hell. My big problem is moving on, having trouble accepting emotionally that it is over. I know it intellectually.
> 
> It is astounding how common this seems to be.


This book has helped me a lot. I was where you are. Check it out, it might surprise you.

Mars and Venus Starting Over: A Practical Guide for Finding Love Again After a Painful Breakup, Divorce, Or the Loss of a Loved One by John Gray, Ph.D


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Jelly, plan is to work the 180 and keep the D in my back pocket. Still hoping my W comes out of the haze she's in. Telling her I filed will make that much more difficult. At least I have protected myself and my kids. If she does go to file she will then learn that I already have. Still hoping for the best but she is so confused and tormented right now. We had a chat that she initiated about the place we are, just told her infidelity crushed my spirit, etc.....she again denied it's significance. Keeps going back to the past.....


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## SixMonthsInHell (Jun 27, 2011)

brighterlight: thanks. I have read that one by John Gray. Also read Rebuilding by the late Dr. Bruce Fisher. That one is good too. When all this started in January I got sent to a shrink by my family doc. Still seeing the shrink. 

Early on I ended up at a bookstore and found the DB books by Michelle W Davis. Also read stuff by Gottman and lots of other stuff off the web. Got the Fertel CDs off the web. And lots of other stuff. I am in a profession where I read a lot, and after 20 years I can read very quickly and retain it. And tons of resources are available on the web, if you know where to look and get it.

So I read all this stuff and the light-bulb goes on....I neglected her needs, did not maintain connection, did not put the relationship first. Put everything else before the relationship....my work, her work, kids, their activities, house, everything but the marriage. And the fire went out. We stopped connecting. Got nasty with each other past few years. By the time she dropped the bomb in january, it was too late for her. 

Now she is determined and focused on the big D. i am sure there is an EA with OM, probably more. Since January, the blackberry beeps all the time, and she keeps it with her everywhere.

I was always a hard worker. Never a player with the ladies. Did not really understand what made her tick. just wanted to be in a secure home, with my wife and kids. I did not get it. Once I did get it, was too damn late.

Early on I got coaching from the DB coaches. Very good, but did not work for me. I could not be consistent with the 180 or the Last Resort thing. I kept trying to appeal to reason - guess how that worked out.

We tried a bit of MC, but she bailed after a few sessions....it was a disaster. Since then she has been on a mission to destroy this marriage and this family, and is 90% of the way there.

From everything I have learned, I will probably make some other woman happy down the road. But this is a waste and a damn shame. And the worst thing of all is that my kids will be permanently affected. They will survive, and i will do my best, but it will never be the same. All because she is in the Fog and is 1000% convinced that she will be so much happier when i am gone.

Sorry for the ranting vent - or was it a venting rant. Sometimes i just want to scream and smash things.....


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Ok...things are going well on the 180 front. One issue....she talked to her Atty today. Pretty sure she was told to spend more time with kids to prove caregiver status....gets off work earlier than usual. plays games with kids, etc........She wants alone time with them since I'm taking them away for a few days so I leave for almost 3 hours. I come back just before bedtime for kids and am an immediate a-hole because I am interfering with her time with kids....wtf? Plan to talk to her about it....she's a frickin emotional wreck.

She seems to see me with such hate right now.........


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> She seems to see me with such hate right now.........


Yes. Your the person interfering with her fantasy!
My Ex has moved from hating me, to pitying me then to wanting to be my friend, and now as I continue to separate she is sounding almost conciliatory. All rubbish of course. She is still in the A when she has just spoken/slept with him determines how she sees and treats me.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

SixMonthsInHell said:


> brighterlight: thanks. I have read that one by John Gray. Also read Rebuilding by the late Dr. Bruce Fisher. That one is good too. When all this started in January I got sent to a shrink by my family doc. Still seeing the shrink.
> 
> Early on I ended up at a bookstore and found the DB books by Michelle W Davis. Also read stuff by Gottman and lots of other stuff off the web. Got the Fertel CDs off the web. And lots of other stuff. I am in a profession where I read a lot, and after 20 years I can read very quickly and retain it. And tons of resources are available on the web, if you know where to look and get it.
> 
> ...


Wow! I need to stop being surprised at how all these post from the guys sound like a carbon copy of my situation. SMIH, thanks for this clear and concise version of my situation exactly. I wonder if it possible to do all of the above and on top of it be a rock star at romance and affection - Ummmm, 1% of the male population maybe, or just plain no! All the things you mention above takes their toll. And instead of getting a, "hey, honey, I am grateful for all the things you do for us, I understand how much effort all this takes and I love you for caring about our family", we get a "well, I am not happy." It's not like we never did anything, on the contrary, we went somewhere (out of town) every weekend for 5 straight weekends in February and March, then we took a one weekend break, and went somewhere the next two; WTF! How much time did she want from me. I am not saying the paying more attention to the SO is not important, it is very important, but in the scheme of things, there are only 24 hours in a day, and 8 or them are spent sleeping; and mine wanted much more of my time. Add to that, in my case, 2 hour commute daily to and from work, parents, in-laws, special holidays (except mothers day and valentines day), and oh yeah, don't forget excercise cause God only knows that you can find an extra couple of hours a day in there to work out, on and on, and the thing we fail at is being in a truly romantic relationship with our wives. So, yes, I have learned from this, unfortunately a few of the things on the above list will be off the menu. So whatever it is that gets put on the back burner will be "neglected" and someone won't be happy - but that's OK because it isn't the wife. I know, we will knock off the list going to see her family out of state every month or two, that'll give me more time with her. Wait, I can't do that because she is now pissed that we didn't go see her mom for her birthday - damn another week in the dog house. LMAO! Get all that! I know, it is about priorities and I know we dropped the ball with the choices we made but heck, the majority of those things had to get done or they would have negative consequences. I guess, in retrospect, the only thing that really needed to get done was raising the kids; I should have ignored everybody else's birthday's, special events, in-laws, and heaven forbid, any time I MIGHT have had for myself, yip, could have taken them off the menu and everyone would have been happy. :bsflag:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

SixMonthsInHell said:


> ...I was always a hard worker. Never a player with the ladies. Did not really understand what made her tick. just wanted to be in a secure home, with my wife and kids. I did not get it. Once I did get it, was too damn late.
> 
> ...From everything I have learned, I will probably make some other woman happy down the road. But this is a waste and a damn shame. And the worst thing of all is that my kids will be permanently affected. They will survive, and i will do my best, but it will never be the same. All because she is in the Fog and is 1000% convinced that she will be so much happier when i am gone.


wow, just like BL said too, this resonates so strongly with me... I wasn't even a workaholic or anything, just that I was more dedicated to my job (and made sure to be there on time and put in my 8) I didn't even work that hard, barely succeeded but it was just work. However, in my mind, without my income to provide, what else could we even do??

Have some women ever heard of something called responsibility? Yeah I was supposed to be dedicated to the marriage too but how can I do that when I'm doing all the work and you are always spending spending spending on your hobbies and personal interests and which came to not include me? How is that fair that you spend all my humble income before I can even get it in the bank? You expect to just put your wishes into the universe a la "The Secret" and things magically come to you? You still gotta do some lifting once in awhile.

Anyways, I used to operate under the pretext that if I cover my bases first then I can have some real growth, take risks and start enjoying life, but I guess I need to change my attitude in this and realize I can't always have the bases covered but I need to grow and live life anyway... not sure how but I'm figuring it out.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

My thread has officially been hijacked......


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

How so? By me? I think these are called "threads" for a reason because the subject can change but generally follows the same topic. If I've offended I'm sorry, I will gladly delete my posts if you feel they have strayed from the topic you started...


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Lon...no. Just an emotional train wreck right now. Wife is totally gone emotionally. We will be apart for about a week..I'm taking the kids for a few days then her. Hopefully that space will inject a little civility back into the house. She is so cynical about everything I say. It's crazy. Here's a question...is it possible to suggest therapy while doing the now infamous 180?
I've heard a lot of great things about Retrovaille from our MC. Don't know how to approach it though.


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## SixMonthsInHell (Jun 27, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> My thread has officially been hijacked......


Sorry man. My fault (everything wrong is apparently my fault...:scratchhead

I hope your 180 is working. I could never keep it going consistently. FWIW, I think one purpose of the 180 or LRT is to make them look at you differently....make them curious. Will asking for MC just re-confirm to her that she needs to be done ? I know that is what happened in my case.

hang in there.


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## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

SMIH....no it's not man. on edge here.

Need help! How can we avoid conflict. We have filed for D and are still living in same house. We agree we need to be civil and work the process as nicely as possible. She just views everything I say with such distrust and disdain that I can't believe it. How can I work a 180, be confident, and honest and have her crap all over everything I say????? I know this will take time, but man.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

You have filed for "D". This means it is over. You need to act like it is over. 

Work on yourself, exercise, get out of the house when you can. Don't say anything around her. She can't crap all over what you are saying if you don talk. Don't be around her. Avoid her as much as possible. If you have to communicate, do it through email, text or lawyers.

Be confident and happy and show her that you will be fine without her.


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