# WW Remembering Their Affair



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

WW what do you remember about your affair?

WW how has time effected what you can remember about the affair?

Any WW not remember their OM name?

BH what do you remember about the affair and how has time effected your memory of WW affair?


----------



## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I remember FWWs details like the back of my hand. 

My FWW claims to not remember the APs name, though she claims to have met up 3 times. She doesn't remember where he lives or even what _city_his house is in. Even what county. Or even what it looks like. 

Yes, its preposterous. Every time I think about that it makes me smile.

Needless to say, I stopped asking questions.


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

I hope some WW's respond.


----------



## angrybuttrying (Jun 17, 2013)

As a BH, I can say I remember everything about, and think about it every day. It's only been almost 9 months since dday, though. 

What I've seen so far is that time decreased the triggers/intensity of the negative emotions, and my personal goal is to replace bad memories from the past with good experiences in the future. One can only remember so much, right? Good will eventually push out most of the bad.


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

This forum out of WW's?


----------



## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

theroad - I don't know that there are any WW's here with the kind of long distance perspective that you are facing. Most of us are within a year or two at most of D-Day, so I assume memories are still fresh in many cases.

D-Day #2 was only 10 months ago for my husband and I. Shortly after, I wrote I timeline for him, and honestly, he remembers all the details I revealed to him in those initial conversations far more than I do having lived through them.

Obviously, I remember the big details - where, roughly when (maybe not exact date, but best guess), and what happened (although details are getting less clear for me). I am losing track of conversations with OM, and specific details like that. Occasionally Matt will ask about a specific conversation that I recounted to him in the immediate aftermath, and I don't remember those details anymore.

I agree with PP that it is unlikely she doesn't remember OM's name, unless it was a random ONS. I can't imagine ever forgetting the name of the person that helped me destroy my husband and myself. The colossal amounts of pain wrapped up in these events will never leave me, at least, I can't picture that happening at this point. I do hope that with decades passing, I will be able to stop thinking about some of the big details as well, so that it can truly be my past, and not something that I carry forever. But stopping thinking about something is not the same as truly forgetting it. I will never forget the terrible choices I made.


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I would love to forget it all, as Mrs. M said. "How can you forget the person involved in messing up my marriage? ". I don't remember everything, there are times calvin brings up something I said back then. And I believe 
Him that I did but just cannot remember. The details are hard to remember. I hate the thought of the scumbag and the thought of how much I hurt calvin...but it's there. I have to live with it. But that doesn't mean I cannot be a good wife to calvin now. I am a better person, wife and mother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

If I have your story right Road, her affair happened long ago... as in 20 years ago?

I doubt it is specific to gender. I know I have problems recollecting everything about dating relationships from that long ago. General stuff probably... names... um, not the passing kind of relationships. I can't even remember the name of the girl I lost my virginity to or the full situation.


----------



## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

fWW, 5 years into R.

I remember his name, the state and city where he lived. I'm not sure I remember his exact age, birthday, eye color (EA, saw few photos of him).

I remember vividly that he called me up a few weeks after we had ended it, pretending nothing had happened. It pissed me off big time. I'll never forget what he said.

I remember that during the affair he tried as hard as he could to convince me that my husband was having an affair. I kept saying "No, he's just married to his work, that's all." He would never let it go and there was a period where I didn't respond to his messages because his insistence pissed me off.

I do not think about the OM a lot. I have no reason to, nor do I want to. He's scum. I focus my attention on my family, my marriage, paying bills, stealing some private time with my husband while our kid is in school. There's isn't really any room for the OM. I do think about the affair and when I do, I focus on myself and what I did, not on the OM.


----------



## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I agree with PP that it is unlikely she doesn't remember OM's name, unless it was a random ONS. I can't imagine ever forgetting the name of the person that helped me destroy my husband and myself. The colossal amounts of pain wrapped up in these events will never leave me, at least, I can't picture that happening at this point. I do hope that with decades passing, I will be able to stop thinking about some of the big details as well, so that it can truly be my past, and not something that I carry forever. But stopping thinking about something is not the same as truly forgetting it. I will never forget the terrible choices I made.


This is something my FWW wasn't able to do: remember many details i think she should have. Such as name, city, etc. And why to this day i believe i only have a sliver of the story. 

Your reply, and common sense, sort of confirms all that.

She claimed he was foreign, couldn't remember the county even. What his house looked like. All that. It insulted my intelligence every time i asked.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Could protective amnesia be at play, here, I wonder?


----------



## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Could protective amnesia be at play, here, I wonder?


Or, it could just be dishonesty.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

awake1 said:


> Or, it could just be dishonesty.


Or self-delusion? Not remembering because you'd have to also remember what great harm you did to someone you love?


----------



## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Or self-delusion? Not remembering because you'd have to also remember what great harm you did to someone you love?


I could see not remembering eye color, what clothes they wore on a specific day. 

But what their name is? What they look like? Where they live? 

In my opinion its just a form of trickle truth. 

Which is more likely, that they have amnesia, or that they just dont want to say?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

awake1 said:


> I could see not remembering eye color, what clothes they wore on a specific day.
> 
> But what their name is? What they look like? Where they live?
> 
> ...


Or they are blocking it out?


----------



## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Or they are blocking it out?


I think that's a convenient excuse to hide the truth. These things were exiting to them, exhilarating even. They don't block out some of the best times they've had in years. 

After all, this makes them feel "alive". Its like saying a vacation was just so awesome they forget all of it. 

I don't think their shocked by doing it, I think the shock comes from getting caught.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

awake1 said:


> I think that's a convenient excuse to hide the truth. These things were exiting to them, exhilarating even. They don't block out some of the best times they've had in years.
> 
> After all, this makes them feel "alive". Its like saying a vacation was just so awesome they forget all of it.
> 
> I don't think their shocked by doing it, I think the shock comes from getting caught.


Not always. The shock can also really come when you suddenly realise what a POS you have become.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

awake1 said:


> I think that's a convenient excuse to hide the truth. These things were exiting to them, exhilarating even. They don't block out some of the best times they've had in years.
> 
> After all, this makes them feel "alive". Its like saying a vacation was just so awesome they forget all of it.
> 
> I don't think their shocked by doing it, I think the shock comes from getting caught.


The road, are we talking that you just recently found out, or that you have known for 20 years?

If she has buried this for 20 years and it was a ons then the above is beyond unbelievable. And she would likely be telling truth in not remembering. If it was a long affair, course she remembers. His name, what he looked like, where he lived etc. 

All depends on when you found out and how long she was seeing him for.

I certainly don't remember all who I have kissed. I remember all who were meaningful though. And that doesn't necessarily mean positively meaningful.


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> theroad - I don't know that there are any WW's here with the kind of long distance perspective that you are facing. Most of us are within a year or two at most of D-Day, so I assume memories are still fresh in many cases.
> 
> D-Day #2 was only 10 months ago for my husband and I. Shortly after, I wrote I timeline for him, and honestly, he remembers all the details I revealed to him in those initial conversations far more than I do having lived through them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for responding.


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> I would love to forget it all, as Mrs. M said. "How can you forget the person involved in messing up my marriage? ". I don't remember everything, there are times calvin brings up something I said back then. And I believe



CSS, thank you.

Now I was add this question of you WW's. Do you think you are able to forget because you knew the whole story?

Where your BH's are not forgetting because even if they have most of the story. The search for or guessing what the missing pieces keeps the BH's from forgetting what they know.


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Good question, I would like to know....I do not know why it is. Makes sense to me tho that you are correct. I'm not hiding anything, I just don't dwell on the EA which means I forget the details is all. I don't even remember every word of conversations I have with friends or family or anyone really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

theroad said:


> CSS, thank you.
> 
> Now I was add this question of you WW's. Do you think you are able to forget because you knew the whole story?
> 
> Where your BH's are not forgetting because even if they have most of the story. The search for or guessing what the missing pieces keeps the BH's from forgetting what they know.


With my fww this is exactly the way it is. Granted her cheating was years ago, but even at DD she "could not remember" details. I asked her for a timeline, she couldn't even remember the season... Spring, Summer, etc.. when she first had sex with her AP. 

All that being said every once and a while, some new detail will pop out and it's been 8 years since her 1st affair. 

One example... She was having a PA with her principal (Boss) at the school she taught at. During spring-break, she decided to take our daughter and a 2 other teenagers to the beach. I stayed home and worked. Anyway she and AP had planned a hookup at beach. After being caught in another affair, I had access to email whereby she talked about this previous affair. She knew I would find out. She came clean on the affair and told me about the beach hookup.

Now years later, she wants to go back to same beach with daughter and me. I'm like you have got to be joking. She tells me to own it. We get into a heated discussion, and I ask her to own it and tell our grown daughter why I have no intention of every returning to said beach. I get the "your holding this over my head" speech. 

In the "discussion" it comes out that she didn't go over to his hotel for sex, he had family there too. They slipped out and met at another hotel for a few hours of beach sex. 

Back early on, she always maintained that she went to his hotel, never said anything about his family being there. Does it make a difference... (really no).

The point... it's the way cheaters are. The will always meter there confession to the least information need to pacify the BS, regardless.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Last nite me and the old lady talked about here affair's and she actually forgot some of the thing she admitted to from back in the day(3 yrs ago).
She seemed surprised on what I was recalling.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

RWB said:


> The point... it's the way cheaters are. *The will always meter there confession to the least information need to pacify the BS, regardless*.


Wrong. Some of us DO put it ALL out there, regardless. And not all betrayed spouses remember every detail, years later. And not all waywards forget every detail, years later. Each person is different whether wayward or betrayed. Each deals with this in his or her own way. Point is... no two situations are exactly the same, no two BS remember the same way, no two WS forget the same way.


----------



## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I think selective amnesia is at play... but also remember that the details that a BS would ask are like daggers to the heart each time something is re-counted. I imagine that pain helps burn the memories far deeper into your memory then it ever did your WS, who likely was in a fog of selfishness. Your mind really goes elsewhere amidst an A. It is the only way you can look at yourself in the mirror while you are doing it all.


----------



## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Remains said:


> The road, are we talking that you just recently found out, or that you have known for 20 years?
> 
> If she has buried this for 20 years and it was a ons then the above is beyond unbelievable. And she would likely be telling truth in not remembering. If it was a long affair, course she remembers. His name, what he looked like, where he lived etc.
> 
> ...


I can see 20 years in the future. But at DDay, or close after, it seems illogical that they don't remember large details. 

I agree though, if we're talking many years in the past that's one thing. 

I thought this was all going off more recent affairs. Say, a year ago, or two. 

To me the likeliest thing in the case of recent affairs is that they just don't want to say, rather than not remember.

Everything you say makes good sense.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

RWB said:


> With my fww this is exactly the way it is. Granted her cheating was years ago, but even at DD she "could not remember" details. I asked her for a timeline, she couldn't even remember the season... Spring, Summer, etc.. when she first had sex with her AP.
> 
> All that being said every once and a while, some new detail will pop out and it's been 8 years since her 1st affair.
> 
> ...


Is your wife very remorseful at all? She should have to swallow not going to the beach not the other way around. :scratchhead: How did your daughter react to this? To her mother's affairs in general?


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

awake1 said:


> I can see 20 years in the future. But at DDay, or close after, it seems illogical that they don't remember large details.
> 
> I agree though, if we're talking many years in the past that's one thing.
> 
> ...


Cheaters love to do this...they love their trickle truthing - they add insult to injury by doing this. Let's be honest shall we - cheaters just want to get away with it..period....many of the ones that do come back have had their fun now they want their old life back....and many get their old lives back with minimal or no consequences...


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> theroad - I don't know that there are any WW's here with the kind of long distance perspective that you are facing. Most of us are within a year or two at most of D-Day, so I assume memories are still fresh in many cases.
> 
> D-Day #2 was only 10 months ago for my husband and I. Shortly after, I wrote I timeline for him, and honestly, he remembers all the details I revealed to him in those initial conversations far more than I do having lived through them.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mrs Mathias, for this good post.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

This happened in my case.

My W knows his name very well. My very mention of his name, will wake her up, these days, in surprise.! 

She obviously fell in love with him. This happened almost 20 years ago. She knows how he looks like. She knows where her ex-lover was from, the locality.


----------



## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

RWB said:


> With my fww this is exactly the way it is. Granted her cheating was years ago, but even at DD she "could not remember" details. I asked her for a timeline, she couldn't even remember the season... Spring, Summer, etc.. when she first had sex with her AP.
> All that being said every once and a while, some new detail will pop out and it's been 8 years since her 1st affair.


Apologies RWB because my reply seems longer than your post :butterfly:. SO sorry you are plagued with it after so long and I can relate. Feels like :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:. The icon for my profile is . Go figure. 

EVERY article I have read by psychologists on affairs puts DISCLOSURE and TRANSPARENCY as an absolute necessity for R. BS must be told whatever they want to know. Most on TAM feel the same. I got tired :fish:ing, gave up after a year and decided to believe him. Worst decision I ever made!

When we are left with nagging questions, we are in a limbo reflecting on the worst possible scenarios. Imagine going to the doc and he says the results of your tests were fine but he won't give you more details. 

I feel denied of what is needed most to get the best out of life - peace of mind. 

You are on this thread so many years later. What does that say? Perhaps give your fWW my post to read, a fellow BS and also another piece I posted. Though I know how hard it is to make them "get it" and take us seriously: 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/119314-puzzle-way-explain-your-need-know-your-ws.html

It's 4 years later and I still haven't been given the answers. It's insulting not be taken seriously. I found out more only months ago giving me insight into a side of him I never knew. There were at least 4 more women. One was his ex-mistress - I never knew he had an affair with his ex-partner when his son was just 2 years old ugh! I SO often asked were there other women. He was a schmalzy ladies man, a smooth operator though he has always given the opposite impression to everyone. Sheesh! if they could read the emails I found! He also pretended he was single to these women. Whoa there! the ultimate insult. I now have to relive the whole sorry saga. Had I known all this I would have run for the hills 4 years ago. Like most women, I abhor those kind of men. 

I hope some WS are reading this because the pattern on TAM of WS continuing to lie by non-disclosure is alarming. There are usually 500 or 600 posters on TAM whenever I log on. That is a whole lot of pain! 

I can't see myself staying now, 4 long years down the track, having endured the difficult road of R which led to nowhere in the end. And how did he behave around women when I wasn't there for the last 4 years, this schmalzy, smooth operator? How on earth would I know! 

I was married before and it didn't work out. We are still good friends and co-parented 3 amazing children who now tell us they had a fantastic childhood despite us being apart. This would never have been possible if betrayal caused our parting. It is insidious and destructive for all involved, including children. My first marriage seems like a walk in the park. Whatever else he was, the father of my children as I call him, was an honest man. I didn't mean to but I blurted all this out to him last week and said that though we had our troubles at least we didn't lie to each other. 

He looked at me and said "But we had nothing to lie about". 


_*Readers: The opinions I express here are just that - my opinions only:smnotworthy:*_


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Good question, I would like to know....I do not know why it is. Makes sense to me tho that you are correct. I'm not hiding anything, I just don't dwell on the EA which means I forget the details is all. I don't even remember every word of conversations I have with friends or family or anyone really.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 When ever something pops into CSS's head about the A she tells me,I have 99%
I have 99 1/2% of it all but once in awhile she will think
K
K of something,its usually
something that doesn't really matter,a lie that he told to make him self look better,no big deal.
I also believe everything she has told me,like the four kisses,a peck on the lips then
she jumped into her truck and ran.
She knew it was wrong and actually felt guilty.
Some things she said to me during her A were kinda cruel,she can't remember
a few of them though she admits she was cruel with her words but can't recall what excatly what she said.
That's ok,it how she is fixing it,that's what matters.
I wonder if she pushed it out of her mind because it disgusted her?
Eh...it doesn't matter now,what matters IS right now.
Right now is pretty good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

calvin said:


> When ever something pops into CSS's head about the A she tells me,I have 99%
> I have 99 1/2% of it all but once in awhile she will think of something,its usually something that doesn't really matter,a lie that he told to make him self look better,no big deal.


Calvin, to follow on from the post I just wrote above I had to comment on your story to say that it's SO good to hear that your fWW has listened to what you need and given it to you. Great to hear a positive outcome for once. Kudos to you both for working through it and the very best to you and your partner for a bright and happy future ahead


----------



## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Cheaters love to do this...they love their trickle truthing - they add insult to injury by doing this. Let's be honest shall we - cheaters just want to get away with it..period....many of the ones that do come back have had their fun now they want their old life back....and many get their old lives back with minimal or no consequences...


Cheaters NEVER get their old lives back, period.

I didn't "love my trickle truthing". I didn't sit there thinking "Hm, what kind of half truth am I going to tell him today? Let's see.....oh, this is going to be so much fun!"

If asked "Tell me everything that happened within the last 9 months", how long would it take you? Would you be able to remember every second? Every word you have spoken/typed? Every purchase you made? Every thought you had? Btw, you'll sit there and talk until I'm satisfied with your answers.


----------



## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

**********, I completely identify with your experience. It's the difference between a false R and a true R. I am beginning to wonder if the aftermath or existence of an affair hasn't a great deal to do with how the marriage began. Those marriages in a true R may be marriages that were based on real love. The related affair does truly end. Those marriages that were based on a lie by at least one party (eg convenience), they do not stand a fighting chance and end up in false R. They survive on face-value...fakes, frauds. That fake partner has no intention of ever telling the truth, not because you or I are unlovable, but because that person has no clue about love, period. Not an excuse, but the truth does help to set one free. The truths we have to rely upon ourselves for.


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

********** said:


> Calvin, to follow on from the post I just wrote above I had to comment on your story to say that it's SO good to hear that your fWW has listened to what you need and given it to you. Great to hear a positive outcome for once. Kudos to you both for working through it and the very best to you and your partner for a bright and happy future ahead


Thanks moon,if it would have went physical then I don't know what would have 
happend,I guess it would have been much harder.Can't say what path I would have chosen.
I do know the TT didn't last long at all,she came clean quick,I kinda had to drag
It out of her a little bit....I asked a few times and she did admit it.
She is still ashamed of it but she needs to forgive herself more.
She does every thing she can for me when I trigger,and those are getting far apart now.
There are 5-8 other couples here who are in various stages of R also.
Wish you all the best,its hard but every thing can be re-built and be better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

RWB said:


> With my fww this is exactly the way it is. Granted her cheating was years ago, but even at DD she "could not remember" details. I asked her for a timeline, she couldn't even remember the season... Spring, Summer, etc.. when she first had sex with her AP.
> 
> All that being said every once and a while, some new detail will pop out and it's been 8 years since her 1st affair.
> 
> ...


Yes details change. I think because they do not remember what they said, left out, or lied about the last time. So when they bring up the past they repeat what it was that they told you years ago. Hoping to not trip themselves up.


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

the guy said:


> Last nite me and the old lady talked about here affair's and she actually forgot some of the thing she admitted to from back in the day(3 yrs ago).
> She seemed surprised on what I was recalling.


My wife is surprised at what I can remember what she said about the affair from years ago.

I think I remember so much because the very little she has told me is not that hard to retain.

Also spending all these years trying to figure out the whole story has kept me from forgetting what I do know.


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Gentlemen....
So how would you describe or "rate" for lack of a better term. How your wives
Are trying to repair the damage they did.
If this is a thread jack I'm sorry and will not pursue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> *Cheaters NEVER get their old lives back, period.
> *
> *I didn't "love my trickle truthing". I didn't sit there thinking "Hm, what kind of half truth am I going to tell him today? Let's see.....oh, this is going to be so much fun!"*
> 
> If asked "Tell me everything that happened within the last 9 months", how long would it take you? Would you be able to remember every second? Every word you have spoken/typed? Every purchase you made? Every thought you had? Btw, you'll sit there and talk until I'm satisfied with your answers.


By definition that is not trickle truthing..that is not remembering..trickle truthing is holding back details INTENTIONALLY so as to save your own neck. 

In my experience many cheaters do get away with it....many affairs are rug swept...


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

We all do forget stuff,no matter what the situation,we just forget sometimes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

calvin said:


> We all do forget stuff,no matter what the situation,we just forget sometimes
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: Sometimes I forget what I had for breakfast....


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is your wife very remorseful at all? She should have to swallow not going to the beach not the other way around. :scratchhead: How did your daughter react to this? To her mother's affairs in general?


She is very remorseful and has given herself 100% back to our marriage since DD. The length and number of affairs before being caught is still hard to deal with, but 4 years into R we are still together. Are things perfect? Who has a perfect life? 

I think the "Own It" comment was more or less a "get over it already" that I took very personal. 

BtW, we did go to the beach with my daughter, just another town "we" have never visited before.


----------



## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

theroad said:


> My wife is surprised at what I can remember what she said about the affair from years ago.
> 
> I think I remember so much because the very little she has told me is not that hard to retain.
> 
> Also spending all these years trying to figure out the whole story has kept me from forgetting what I do know.


When you're questioning a cheater you're insanely focused on the answer. Of course you will remember what was said. Nothing else can distract you in that state of hyper-focus. A "Grand Inquisitor" as Shirley Glass puts it. You'll file it, cross-reference it, compare it to what has been stated before. The mental energy I've spent thinking and trying to synthesize what was said before DDay, after DDay, and after DDAY2 is simply staggering. I would have preferred to be devoting thought to other matters and I'm pretty bitter about the amount of time my brain was held captive. 

It's a one million piece puzzle and there will _always_ be missing pieces. The question is can you make out the picture without them?

From the WS side I'm sure there are many layers of thought as well. As semi-professional liars most usually do a pretty good job of keeping the story straight, at least what they've revealed. Like most BS I've had things come up later that weren't revealed previously. I ask 'Why did you remember that now? Why didn't you mention that before?' Well the human mind is amazing, awesome, but there's only so much it can handle and process. 

So when you're asking a detail the first time, hyperfocused, the WS is answering but might be thinking all of these things at the same time:

What really happened? (And they may or may not actually recall)
What will my spouse's reaction be? (I think a lot of brain power is spent here)
What did I say before?
What if I tell the truth? 
What if lie? 
What is my spouses body language? 
I don't want to be divorced!

So, on the second and later questionings, there is less brainpower devoted to worrying about the reaction, and if they're finally telling the truth they don't have to use brain power to make up a lie and get the story straight. So it seems plausible that more 'details', particularly ones that 'don't matter' can be dredged up by their brain. 

The problem is that we BS _*don't trust proven liars*_. A minor detail changed, or a new revelation, no matter how small, opens up the entire case. Cross reference again, compare, revisit...

Lastly (curse my long posts)...

You could ask me details about sexual encounters and talks I had while in real relationships I was emotionally invested in twenty years ago, and I probably couldn't come up with any satisfying specifics- so 'I can't recall' is plausible. Especially if a person wants to forget it. 

I can't imagine forgetting the name of someone I slept with though, and I'm pretty sure I'd remember locations, if not how many times at that location. Some people do seem to be able to blow even that stuff off though. I wonder that experiences they hold important enough to remember?


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

MrMathias said:


> So when you're asking a detail the first time, hyperfocused, the WS is answering but might be thinking all of these things at the same time:
> 
> What really happened? (And they may or may not actually recall)
> What will my spouse's reaction be? (I think a lot of brain power is spent here)
> ...


MM,

*I think you are spot on here.*

After a few days of saying to my wife... "I know you are lying. I can see it. What does it matter at this point. Your only chance with me... if you truly want it... is the Truth."

She broke and "started" to tell the truth. I asked her why continue to lie when you have been caught in multiple PA. 

Her response was very telling. "I am so ashamed, it is so hard to admit, I can't even let myself hear the truth." She had been lying for so many years to me, herself, family... the truth was impossible to grasp.


----------



## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> By definition that is not trickle truthing..that is not remembering..trickle truthing is holding back details INTENTIONALLY so as to save your own neck.
> 
> In my experience many cheaters do get away with it....many affairs are rug swept...


Can the BS distinguish between trickle truthing and not remembering? No, how could they?


----------



## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: Sometimes I forget what I had for breakfast....


But a cheater doesn't have that luxury. If we forget something, it's lying. I'm not saying it's unfair but I cannot prove that I didn't remember this or that. It's something that cannot be resolved.

I don't know about other WW's but it bothers me that I'm unable to prove that there are some things I do not remember. I'm not lying about them, I don't remember them. To my husband, those are things he saw as lies and I believe he still does to this day, he just learned to live with it.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

FourtyPlus said:


> But a cheater doesn't have that luxury. If we forget something, it's lying..


Well in another thread, The Road stated that this all happened well before the internet. AOL's mainstream "you've got mail" was around '95... some of us were messing around with dialup severs since the late eighties. That places the affair nearly 20 years ago. Memories are going to be faint. I believe it'd be totally irrational to believe a wayward is going to remember every detail from that long ago. 

Bits and pieces, but that's about it for someone like me. I tend to remember theory type stuff, so I would remember why, but not really what.

My WW would probably remember more.. yet she's the sort that remember facts, and "adjust" why to suit current chain of thoughts.


----------



## workindad (May 7, 2011)

40+ why would you expect your husband to think otherwise. What I am trying to ask is what have you done to repair the trust you damaged.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> *But a cheater doesn't have that luxury. If we forget something, it's lying.* I'm not saying it's unfair but I cannot prove that I didn't remember this or that. It's something that cannot be resolved.
> 
> I don't know about other WW's but it bothers me that I'm unable to prove that there are some things I do not remember. I'm not lying about them, I don't remember them. To my husband, those are things he saw as lies and I believe he still does to this day, he just learned to live with it.


The lying started with the affair so naturally when the WS says they did not remember this or that - well they have been lying for so long why should they receive the benefit of the doubt now? When you repeatedly abuse someones trust it is easy to see why "I don't remember" rings hollow after the affair is discovered...


----------



## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> The lying started with the affair so naturally when the WS says they did not remember this or that - well they have been lying for so long why should they receive the benefit of the doubt now? When you repeatedly abuse someones trust it is easy to see why "I don't remember" rings hollow after the affair is discovered...


No disagreement from me.


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

calvin said:


> Gentlemen....
> So how would you describe or "rate" for lack of a better term. How your wives
> Are trying to repair the damage they did.
> If this is a thread jack I'm sorry and will not pursue.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Has been a good wife.

That though does not fill my need for the truth.


----------



## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

workindad said:


> 40+ why would you expect your husband to think otherwise. What I am trying to ask is what have you done to repair the trust you damaged.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't expect him to think otherwise.

Going back to my point: the BS can't distinguish between Trickle Truth (intentionally withholding info) and not remembering something. No need to define trickle truth as something different than not remembering because it's the same for a BS: it's lying.

I don't believe you can repair trust that has been broken. You have to build up new trust. It's not the same trust, it's new. The same way you don't continue with your same old marriage (if you R), you build a new one.
To answer your question: I have kept daily itineraries detailing what I'm doing, where I'm going, with whom and why, when I'll be back etc. I keep receipts of everything so I can prove where I was and what I did there. My workday consists of driving around a lot, meeting strangers alone in their home, some of which are single males. For a while, my husband accompanied me, eventually he stopped. I still make sure he knows where I am and what I'm doing at all times, I also call when I'm late and explain why. I had incidences where I pulled over in the rain because I couldn't see the road anymore. I called and let him know and did take a picture overlooking the hood of the car and the rain pouring down, even a lightening strike. I have software that times/dates photos as my cam doesn't have this feature. I felt that I needed to do this in case I get questioned. If I go to the store and he doesn't want to come along, I ask my daughter. I try whatever possible to make sure I'm never alone, I always have someone with me and can produce evidence of what I did during the day. If I go to the store alone, I take photos of random items at various times to prove I was at the store. I don't show these photos as soon as I get home but I keep them, in case I need them. 
My computer is open to everyone at all times. If there was the slightest indiscretion, my husband would know in a heart beat. I do not know if he checks or not. He can at any given time. Same with my calls. It's always there for anyone to look at it or use it. I hide nothing.
When I talk about something that happened during the day, it's 100% detailed. I try as hard as I can to remember every single detail so I can account for it. 
A lot of times I feel like an idiot for doing this because my husband doesn't want to hear my detailed accounts of what I did. He gets bored with it and has told me so many times. 

There isn't a shred of privacy in my life and it's not a complaint, just a statement. My husband knows everything, sees everything I do. I can't do more than that. There isn't anything else I can do to show I'm not doing anything I'm not supposed to do.

I see myself as a person that can't be trusted anymore. I keep records of everything I do, not to keep me from straying but to be able to answer any question. I'm horrified of not remembering or not being able to disprove something I might be accused of but didn't do.

Sorry for the novel, but that's my answer.


----------



## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

As for me, I encourage calvin to get VARs and to check my phone and the call log. It is right on My Att.net . I want him to do these things so that he feels better. I also want a lie detector but I understand it costs money for these things. It would help us with our R though. I also let him know what I am doing throughout the day. If he wants to drive to where I work and see my truck there..or even come in, he may . We are doing much better than we were tho 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

FourtyPlus said:


> I don't expect him to think otherwise.
> 
> Going back to my point: the BS can't distinguish between Trickle Truth (intentionally withholding info) and not remembering something. No need to define trickle truth as something different than not remembering because it's the same for a BS: it's lying.
> 
> ...





CantSitStill said:


> As for me, I encourage calvin to get VARs and to check my phone and the call log. It is right on My Att.net . I want him to do these things so that he feels better. I also want a lie detector but I understand it costs money for these things. It would help us with our R though. I also let him know what I am doing throughout the day. If he wants to drive to where I work and see my truck there..or even come in, he may . We are doing much better than we were tho
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Two WW's doing the work to rebuild trust, verify NC, put their BH at ease.


----------



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

theroad said:


> Two WW's doing the work to rebuild trust, verify NC, put their BH at ease.


Without her efforts,we'd never make it,I know she feels bad but I need her to.
Not always and forever but enough so that I know she won't do it again.
I don't even thing she has any good memories of the A,it disgust her now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

