# Living A Double Life



## LonelyGirl1963

Where to begin? I guess at the beginning. If anyone I knew heard this story they would not believe it of me. I am truly white bread and plain vanilla and I have never done anything wrong in my life.

I have been married 25 years to the same man and always physically faithful to him until the last 3 years. I guess this is where I should tell you about my marriage. I met my husband and after knowing him 5 years we married. We started off as just friends and it evolved into a romantic relationship. Very early in the marriage sex became infrequent and he did not always have the ability to perform.

He has always been a very ambitious, driven, and intense man who spent 85% of his time working, 10% of his time pursuing sports, and 5% of his time with me. Believe it or not I actually charted it out after we got married. When I said something to him he said I was never to interfere with his work. Long story short, over the years, I began to feel more and more abandoned. He is a good man, a good provider and I love him and would never want to hurt him.

About me. I am an only child, no siblings, no children, parents are both dead and to make things worse, as I look back to my childhood I'm sure I suffered from separation anxiety and I think I still do. My mother was the most wonderful Mom ever and I loved her dearly. My Dad was controlling and verbally abusive to both my Mom and myself. When I lost my mother I felt like I was no longer anchored to the world, and when I lost my Dad I felt nothing but relief. I remained closely involved with him and he was very abusive to the end.

Seven years ago I was bored and started playing an online game. It was social and I was able to be creative as well making virtual things (I'm the artsy fartsy type). While playing I met a man from London online and we began spending a lot of time together. It seemed harmless, he was an avatar, it wasn't real and it soothed the loneliness. He wanted to take it to real life and I didn't. He eventually convinced me and we exchanged phone numbers, pictures, and opened skype accounts. He lost his job and after that we would spend 5 or 6 hours a day together on skype. When we went about our days we would take each other with us via the phone. In the evenings we were together virtually. We became each others lives. We were also able to make enough money together through a virtual business for him to be able to live without a job.

Three years ago he left London to come to the states to be with me.
We have spent almost every day together since. He lives in a house that I inherited from my Mom. He is illegal and I can't marry him for the obvious reasons. I'm also 15 years older than he is which he has always known. I have been told a million times that I look 20 years younger so no funny looks from people and he finds me attractive.

Everything has finally come to a head as I knew it would some day because of his immigration status because he has no life without me, he can't even work, drive or get a bank account.

Three months ago he went to an online dating site and met a girl.
She figured the situation out after visiting him at home a few times
and he lied to her and told her we were just friends. It also came out about his status so she offered to marry him. They got married a few days ago but he refuses to move out of my house and move in with her. I know it's a green card marriage because he told me if he got married it would be for a green card, but she thinks it's the real deal after just 3 months of knowing him. He said he needed a life and I agree with him.

She texted me and asked me about our relationship and I told her the truth. Now that he won't move in with her she has gotten all wiggy and keeps saying he loves me more than her and she will have to always live with that. I have tried throwing him out and he refuses to leave and even said he would tell my husband if I make him leave. She is hysterical and freaking out, and is threatening to tell my husband. I told him just please go live with her and all of this will go away. The got married at a justice of the peace in a county with no waiting time, and the next day they were at the immigration lawyer and she has already added him to her insurance.

He will not cop out to this being a green card marriage to me but he won't leave. I honestly think he is afraid to admit it because he is afraid I will tell her. He keeps telling me that I am his best friend and he always wants to be able to see me. I told him that was fine but he has to leave. He tells her he will move in with her in 2 months when she can get a bigger place. He is using his dog as an excuse not to move in with her. I have told him that I understand his decision to move on because he needs a life but he won't leave.

I know this is getting long but it's a long story. I guess I'm not really asking what to do about him or her or them telling my husband, I'm asking what to do about me and venting as well.
I take personal responsibility for my actions and I get what I get. I knew the risks. In fact I have made very little effort to hide it and yet hubby has never noticed, questioned me, or said anything. I'm not sure if he is that self involved, doesn't care, or doesn't want to know. Either way I do love him and don't want to hurt him.

I'm here because absolutely no one else in my life knows about this or ever has. Not my friends, not anyone. I just need a sounding board. Thanks for reading this very long post.


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## GusPolinski

LOL. Thanks for the laughs.


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## MountainRunner

GusPolinski said:


> LOL. Thanks for the laughs.


Gotta admit though Gus...It is creative, yes? *giggles*


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## harrybrown

You have already hurt him.

Just tell your H the truth.


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## Lostinthought61

I think i caught this on Lifetime Channel. Seriously are you asking us to believe that for the last three years you have been keeping a man in your mother's home, flying from London and your husband has no clue...i give you an A for creativity.


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## LonelyGirl1963

Xenote said:


> I think i caught this on Lifetime Channel. Seriously are you asking us to believe that for the last three years you have been keeping a man in your mother's home, flying from London and your husband has no clue...i give you an A for creativity.


Hi Guys,

No this is not a joke and yes it reads like a Lifetime movie. Sometimes life is stranger than truth. Every word is true and I was looking for some help but as I can see you are typical men with absolutely no empathy. But I guess that is not your fault because your brains only have 20% of the emotional receptors that women have. So you get pass, and thanks for your incite. I thought this was supposed to be a safe place to come for advise and believe me if you have read what I just posted I need some.

And yes as I said my husband either doesn't care, doesn't notice, or doesn't want to know. So how about some input you are men what do you think?


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## Happilymarried25

If you just want him out of your house why not call the police? He is trespassing.


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## LonelyGirl1963

harrybrown said:


> You have already hurt him.
> 
> Just tell your H the truth.


Harry thanks for your reply. I have always been of the opinion that coming clean is good only if it serves a purpose. It might serve a purpose for me but I don't think it would for him because I don't think he really wants to know.

I have not been particularly careful about covering my tracks and yet he hasn't even noticed. It actually kind of pisses me off that he hasn't. Having said that I think people accept what they can and ignore the rest.


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## LonelyGirl1963

Happilymarried25 said:


> If you just want him out of your house why not call the police? He is trespassing.


I have looked into that and in the state I live in, if someone has resided in your house for more then 2 weeks then you cannot charge them with trespassing. He was not a renter either so evicting him is not an option.


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## GusPolinski

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> No this is not a joke and yes it reads like a Lifetime movie. Sometimes life is stranger than truth. Every word is true and I was looking for some help but as I can see you are typical men with absolutely no empathy. But I guess that is not your fault because your brains only have 20% of the emotional receptors that women have. So you get pass, and thanks for your incite. I thought this was supposed to be a safe place to come for advise and believe me if you have read what I just posted I need some.
> 
> And yes as I said my husband either doesn't care, doesn't notice, or doesn't want to know. So how about some input you are men what do you think?


OK, I'll bite...

I think the notion that anyone (whether male or female) should be compelled to muster even an ounce of empathy for someone who has painted himself or herself into a corner as thoroughly as you have is both laughable and comtemptible.


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## JustTired

This same exact story is on another forum except the OP is the "new wife". All details are the same.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/534434-green-card-marriage


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## The Middleman

No sympathy for you what so ever.


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## GusPolinski

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Harry thanks for your reply. I have always been of the opinion that coming clean is good only if it serves a purpose. It might serve a purpose for me but I don't think it would for him because I don't think he really wants to know.
> 
> I have not been particularly careful about covering my tracks and yet he hasn't even noticed. It actually kind of pisses me off that he hasn't. Having said that I think people accept what they can and ignore the rest.


Well, telling him would likely motivate him to excise a cheating wife from his life.

Pretty good purpose, IMO.


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## GusPolinski

JustTired said:


> This same exact story is on another forum except the OP is the "new wife". All details are the same.


:lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


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## JustTired

GusPolinski said:


> :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


Check it, Gus: Green Card Marriage - LoveShack.org Community Forums

:scratchhead:


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## happy as a clam

I think you should move the London boyfriend and his new wife into the home you share with your husband!

That seems like an excellent way to get him out of your deceased mother's home.


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## happy as a clam

JustTired said:


> Check it, Gus: Green Card Marriage - LoveShack.org Community Forums
> 
> :scratchhead:


Good work, Detective JT!!

:lol:


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## GusPolinski

JustTired said:


> Check it, Gus: Green Card Marriage - LoveShack.org Community Forums
> 
> :scratchhead:


Honestly, I'll take your word for it. Taking a stroll through LS wouldn't be a good way to start my day.


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## Constable Odo

Xenote said:


> Seriously are you asking us to believe that for the last three years you have been keeping a man in your mother's home, flying from London and your husband has no clue...


I find people from London too snooty. The only women I meet in online games and fly over illegally from foreign countries are women from Russia or the Phillipines.




LonelyGirl1963 said:


> if someone has resided in your house for more then 2 weeks then you cannot charge them with trespassing.


I keep all my women in a van down by the river. Have you tried this?




GusPolinski said:


> LOL. Thanks for the laughs.


Damn, I shouldn't have replied to this, now my SO will know where to look for all my side dishes once she reads this. :surprise:


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## ConanHub

You have betrayed your husband and lowered yourself to the level of a tramp with absolutely no remorse and now your idiotic behavior is biting you in your cheating ass.

You want what exactly?

The answers you will find here will not suit your self centered world view.

Enjoy your mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Mods, PLEASE don't delete this thread. I could totally use the LOLs today.


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## JustTired

GusPolinski said:


> Mods, PLEASE don't delete this thread. I could totally use the LOLs today.


I know, right?!?!? This one could get real good!


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## happy as a clam

Constable Odo said:


> I keep all my women in a van down by the river. Have you tried this?


Ba ha ha!!! :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol:



GusPolinski said:


> Mods, PLEASE don't delete this thread. I could totally use the LOLs today.


:iagree: :iagree:

For realz...


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## LonelyGirl1963

JustTired said:


> Check it, Gus: Green Card Marriage - LoveShack.org Community Forums
> 
> :scratchhead:


Yes that was me too. I'm going to paste over my last post. And from the reaction I'm getting here you can see why I posted the way I did over there:

Lois you are absolutely right. I'm going to come clean and I will probably get kicked off of here for it. This forum was a little slow for me not a lot of answers very quickly and I wanted a lot of opinions. The part about being confused and panicked is true. Who I am is not. Everything I have said I have either personally witnessed or I have had personal knowledge of, so the story is true. The details are accurate.

I am the other woman. The reason I did not post as her is because I wanted opinions that were not geared towards me and my position, because I didn't want it slanted in my direction. I wanted to state the facts and I wanted a lot of help as quickly as I could get it. People who have affairs are pariahs in this society, regardless of the circumstances. I didn't want what you said to be influenced by that. I wanted to get just an overall outlook on the whole thing. I didn't want to be central I wanted to take myself out of it. I hope you can understand that.

My story is a long one and I take full responsibility for my actions. I get what I get for doing what I did. I have actually posted to a third board, but this time as myself. Thank you all for giving me the information I was seeking and I'm sorry to have deceived you but I needed opinions that were not biased towards me. I have done my best to accurately describe the situation from her standpoint. I have had several very very long conversations with her about it. I thought she had the right to know and while I understand his want for a green card, he has absolutely no life without it, he is a dog for deceiving her the way he did and she is an idiot for falling for it. Does he love me, yes I think he does as much as he is capable of. Do I still love him, yes, you don't fall out of love after 7 years overnight. Do I think he is lacking in character, yes I do.

As far as what will happen I really don't know. I have asked him to leave and he absolutely refuses. Yesterday I told him I would take care of the dog. I'm going to put the house up for rent so I have a lot of work to do and I will be with the dog a lot. I love the dog very much he was a birthday gift from me to him. He says he will be out in 60 days that they will rent a place together. He also told me that when he leaves it will be the saddest day of his life.

He has been here 3 years and when he came over we were hoping for amnesty and that he would be covered, but of course that didn't happen. He told me a few months ago that he would probably have to get married but it was the last thing he wanted to do. I let him come over here because he told me he had no interest in ever getting married. His life over there did not seem that good so I thought he wants to come and apparently isn't really leaving anything behind. I also told him anytime he wanted to go back I would get him back home.

Right or wrong we have been together because we truly have loved each other. Seven years is a long time for an affair, I think the average affair lasts maybe only 6 months. Our story (the part you don't know about) is actually a very unusual one. This is the first and only affair I have ever had and like everyone else who has ever had an affair, I had my reasons which are long and complicated, at least to me, which is why I posted somewhere else as myself.

Again, thank you everyone for your input, it has been invaluable, and even though I did not post in the normal way you helped me through a time of great panic and fear. It's not over yet, I don't know the outcome. I'm just trying to distance myself until things calm down a bit and then maybe everyone involved can be rational and come to grips. 

Looks like I was right to post it that way judging by the posts I'm getting here.


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## LonelyGirl1963

And I guess you are all on here because you have led perfect lives. LOL. I'm not asking you for your approval. I was looking for a place to vent and discuss and yes I know it is an unbelievable story and it's like I said people who have affairs are pariahs and yet i guess about 30-40% of the population have had them.


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## JustTired

OP,

This entire situation is so messed up that I want to look away but I can't. You brought a man over from England to stay at your deceased mother's house. He is in the US illegally, he married another woman, & you don't know what to do.

If any of this story is true.... I would go see a lawyer about having this guy legally evicted from the house. I would also suggest fessing up to your husband because not only is it the right thing to do, but because you have to take away the leverage this other guy has. Hell, I would probably go as far as reporting him to immigration for marriage fraud (even though nothing may come out of it, just put it out there).


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## LonelyGirl1963

Just Tired I'm sure you are tired. It takes a lot of energy going from forum to forum reading every post and trolling. LOL. Jeeze and you people are laughing at me.


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## LonelyGirl1963

If nothing else you have all been a good laugh for me too and I could really use a good one.


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## happy as a clam

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Just Tired I'm sure you are tired. It takes a lot of energy going from forum to forum reading every post and trolling. LOL. Jeeze and you people are laughing at me.


Ouch...


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## ConanHub

Being a kept man could be pretty cool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustTired

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Just Tired I'm sure you are tired. It takes a lot of energy going from forum to forum reading every post and trolling. LOL. Jeeze and you people are laughing at me.


LOL....I did post some advice for you.


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## Lostinthought61

First of all lonelygirl you have to admit if you had read your story from our perspective its a bit far-fetched and also considering the fact that there are rather dubious individuals who post stories for their own warped humor to get a raise out of the posters who sincerely want to help. As for the speed of opinions you were looking for, that like anything else takes time and more conversations to understand everything. But i can tell you this....the ONLY PERSON that i feel great sadness for is you husband, he may not have been the best husband but he did not deserve this, he did not deserve to have a conniving wife who used the marriage money to support another man. and as for the lack of empathy...your right i have NONE towards you...But i have a mountain of Empathy for your husband. walk away with shame.


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## LonelyGirl1963

JustTired said:


> OP,
> 
> This entire situation is so messed up that I want to look away but I can't. You brought a man over from England to stay at your deceased mother's house. He is in the US illegally, he married another woman, & you don't know what to do.
> 
> If any of this story is true.... I would go see a lawyer about having this guy legally evicted from the house. I would also suggest fessing up to your husband because not only is it the right thing to do, but because you have to take away the leverage this other guy has. Hell, I would probably go as far as reporting him to immigration for marriage fraud (even though nothing may come out of it, just put it out there).


Thank you! Someone who is finally taking me seriously. I literally have 2 close people in my life, my husband, and this man. I have no family, none, no siblings, no children, no parents, and a few friends. That's it. I run the risk of having absolutely no one. I got into this mess because I was so lonely and I know that is no excuse, but I know that is why I did. That is also why I didn't leave a marriage that was not fulfilling my needs a long time ago, even though I probably should have. This man was not just an affair he was my family too.


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## Constable Odo

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I have no family, none, no siblings, no children, no parents, and a few friends.


How about a cat? You could adopt a cat. Or 2. Or 30. You're definitely a cat lady.


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## LonelyGirl1963

Xenote said:


> First of all lonelygirl you have to admit if you had read your story from our perspective its a bit far-fetched and also considering the fact that there are rather dubious individuals who post stories for their own warped humor to get a raise out of the posters who sincerely want to help. As for the speed of opinions you were looking for, that like anything else takes time and more conversations to understand everything. But i can tell you this....the ONLY PERSON that i feel great sadness for is you husband, he may not have been the best husband but he did not deserve this, he did not deserve to have a conniving wife who used the marriage money to support another man. and as for the lack of empathy...your right i have NONE towards you...But i have a mountain of Empathy for your husband. walk away with shame.


The the other day my husband told me something that he has never said or admitted. He said he wished he would have spent more time working on his personal life, and his home. And do you know what it took to make him come to grips with that? It took his mother dying and his father getting old. My husband is a good person and I do love him. I have screamed and shouted from the rooftops for years what I have needed from him and it fell on deaf ears.

What has happened in your life to make you so judgmental? I have no idea what your religious affiliations are but you certainly enjoy casting stones. Is that what you do here? Is that why you are here? Bloodsport I guess huh?

What you don't get is I'm not here for someone to tell me, "oh, you poor dear," or jerk someones chain, which it seems I have done, or call me a ***** or a tramp, I just need some help sorting things out in my own head. I should probably see a psychologist but I can't afford one right now. I'm about personal responsibility, I'm not blaming anyone for the mess I'm in that falls on me. Just the act of writing it down seems to help somewhat. Yes, yes, yes, it is a convoluted mess and I'm living the results of it. Have a heart man!!


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## LonelyGirl1963

Oh and Xenote for information the house and the money I used were my own.


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## LonelyGirl1963

Constable Odo read the first line of your signature line not the second. The first one makes sense the second is crass and disgusting.


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## happy as a clam

Look LonelyGirl...

None of this will get better until you fess up the truth to your husband. Living such a big lie for so long is soul-eating. Tell him everything you told us, then let the chips fall where they may.

Will you end up alone? Probably. But that's not such a bad thing. You'll have plenty of time and space to figure out why youve gone down the path you're on. And at least your conscience will be clear and you can begin healing from all the damage you have caused.


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## LonelyGirl1963

Might I add Constable Odo yours is probably 2" long at best and not 10 LOL.


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## LonelyGirl1963

happy as a clam said:


> Look LonelyGirl...
> 
> None of this will get better until you fess up the truth to your husband. Living such a big lie for so long is soul-eating. Tell him everything you told us, then let the chips fall where they may.
> 
> Will you end up alone? Probably. But that's not such a bad thing. You'll have plenty of time and space to figure out why youve gone down the path you're on. And at least your conscience will be clear and you can begin healing from all the damage you have caused.


But that is just it. I haven't caused damage to anyone yet. I have been deceitful to be sure, but I haven't caused him any heartache. He hasn't even noticed and that causes me heartache.


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## EleGirl

JustTired said:


> This same exact story is on another forum except the OP is the "new wife". All details are the same.
> 
> Green Card Marriage - LoveShack.org Community Forums


Here is a post on that forum where greencard girl says that she is really the same person as the OP on this thread.

Green Card Marriage - Page 2 - LoveShack.org Community Forums


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## happy as a clam

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Might I add Constable Odo yours is probably 2" long at best and not 10 LOL.


Is this really necessary? :slap:


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## happy as a clam

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> But that is just it. I haven't caused damage to anyone yet.


Go back and re-read what I wrote. You HAVE caused tremendous damage... to yourself. And to your marriage. Whether your husband knows or not.

You are living a lie. Lies kill the soul. Like a slow, steady waterboard torture.


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## LonelyGirl1963

Probably the best thing I can do is what I'm planning on doing and that is not having anything else to do with the other man. And since my husband seems to be realizing his lack of participation not only in our marriage but within his own family in general, maybe he will be more open to working on our long standing issues instead of just getting mad, refusing to talk, and blowing me off. I think it's my only chance. Can anyone tell me at this point what purpose it would serve to confess to something he knows nothing about or if he does he cares not to know about. I know it's the moral thing in most peoples eyes but is it the practical thing to do? Will it enhance anyone's life. I'm not just talking about my life but his too. The last thing in the world I want to do is hurt him. I'm looking to get to the other side of the tunnel, not open a can of worms. I would like to do it with the least amount of damage to everyone.


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## LonelyGirl1963

happy as a clam said:


> Is this really necessary? :slap:


How about you ask Constable Obo.


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## EleGirl

happy as a clam said:


> Is this really necessary? :slap:


Did you read his signature line? Constable Otto brought things to that level.


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## Lostinthought61

Actually my life is good thank you for asking, and i will be the first to admit i don't walk on water (although i do know where the rocks are so it only looks like that), I am made my share of mistakes and at times continue to do so. I have only one question, you love him but he did not meet you needs...i get that....so 7 years or 3 years ago when you brought that guy over, why did you not just divorce your husband? you could have walked away....started a new life with this guy instead you strung him along and your husband....if your still in love with this guy then do your husband a favor leave him, maybe you will find happiness this guy maybe you won't but at least you can wake up each morning not living a lie.


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## happy as a clam

EleGirl said:


> Did you read his signature line? Constable Otto brought things to that level.


No, I guess I missed that. The print is so small I need a magnifying glass to read it .


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## SunnyT

It will enhance your husband's life if you come clean to him. He, like everyone else, should be entitled to a life that is not built on lies. IF he is coming around, wanting to get closer to you....then he deserves to know the truth. So that the one relationship in his life that is supposed to be the most important, is not built on lies. 

Maybe your resentment of his lack of involvement all these years has made you think that he doesn't deserve a good, honest relationship? Like he deserves the lies? 

Seems like a crappy way to build a relationship.

Why not suggest marriage counseling to him? Maybe a third party can help you two?


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## EleGirl

LonelyGirl,

You created quite a mess. 

Stop seeing this guy. You have told him and his wife that you will turn them into immigration about their greencard marriage. Do you have texts, emails or any other proof that he told you it was just a greencard marriage?

What state do you live in? I'd like to verify that there is no way of kicking a non-paying resident out of your home. I do not believe it, there has to be a way. So I'll look and help you find that. Then if he ignores your eviction notice, you tell him you are taking him to court. Court is the last place he wants to end up.

Why have you never pursued building your own network of friends? It's very doable. Start at Find your people - Meetup


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## LonelyGirl1963

happy as a clam said:


> Go back and re-read what I wrote. You HAVE caused tremendous damage... to yourself. And to your marriage. Whether your husband knows or not.
> 
> You are living a lie. Lies kill the soul. Like a slow, steady waterboard torture.


I have reread what you said. Lies do cause great damage to be sure. And probably the most damage has been done to me by me. The past is the past and I don't plan on making it my future. I'm not blaming him for my actions but he had a hand in this as well. He left me alone, he didn't want children, he only wanted me to work for him even though I had my own career before we got married. He wanted to consume my life and yet not be present in it. I should have divorced him 15 years ago but I didn't. I have let the fear of being alone rule my life and honestly I don't know if I can overcome that, at least not the way you are suggesting.


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## EleGirl

Ok folks, if you do not believe that this is a true story. Just don't post on this thread.


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## EleGirl

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I have reread what you said. Lies do cause great damage to be sure. And probably the most damage has been done to me by me. The past is the past and I don't plan on making it my future. I'm not blaming him for my actions but he had a hand in this as well. He left me alone, he didn't want children, *he only wanted me to work for him even though I had my own career before we got married. * He wanted to consume my life and yet not be present in it. I should have divorced him 15 years ago but I didn't. I have let the fear of being alone rule my life and honestly I don't know if I can overcome that, at least not the way you are suggesting.


I'm confused by what you wrote here.

Do you have a job/career? 

Are you working for your husband?


.


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## GusPolinski

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Just Tired I'm sure you are tired. *It takes a lot of energy going from forum to forum reading every post and trolling.* LOL. Jeeze and you people are laughing at me.


LOL. I guess you'd know, right?


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## happy as a clam

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I'm here because absolutely no one else in my life knows about this or ever has. Not my friends, not anyone. I just need a sounding board.


I'm not sure if you're a spiritual or religious person, but why not consider talking to a priest, a pastor, or a rabbi? Even if you're not a person of faith, they will listen. Sometimes, just the physical act of _telling another person_ face to face can go a long way towards helping you sort all this out.

I would also suggest a good counselor. If finances are an issue, perhaps you can find one who accepts fees on a sliding scale. A good counselor can help you address your fear of being alone which has kept you locked in an unhappy marriage.

Maybe in the end you will decide not to tell your husband, that's entirely up to you. Regardless, you need to get the London man and his "wife" out of your mother's home. A call to your county Sheriff can get that ball rolling.


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## LonelyGirl1963

EleGirl said:


> LonelyGirl,
> 
> You created quite a mess.
> 
> Stop seeing this guy. You have told him and his wife that you will turn them into immigration about their greencard marriage. Do you have texts, emails or any other proof that he told you it was just a greencard marriage?
> 
> What state do you live in? I'd like to verify that there is no way of kicking a non-paying resident out of your home. I do not believe it, there has to be a way. So I'll look and help you find that. Then if he ignores your eviction notice, you tell him you are taking him to court. Court is the last place he wants to end up.
> 
> Why have you never pursued building your own network of friends? It's very doable. Start at Find your people - Meetup


Elegirl thank you for your input. I have looked into it. I have a background in real estate and access to an attorney friend. Eviction in my state takes quite a long time. Probably the simplest way to get him out is to just turn off the utilities. They are in my name so that is not a problem. It is extremely hot here right now like 100 with high humidity. He won't stay long under those conditions. If you have read the other forum this has all happened very quickly and it was just yesterday that he told me he would absolutely not go. I don't really have any proof other than conversations that it is a green card marriage, but I think the facts will probably speak for themselves at the interview. Short duration knowing each other, how they met, the fact that he refuses to move in with her, all of that. She may totally have a meltdown before it even gets that far. She is really becoming hysterical. Do you know he has only met her children one time and for a very short time. It just doesn't make sense. I asked him do you even know what her children's names are. He has told me many times that he did not want to be a father to another mans kids.

No I have not yet. Not joking here but living a double life takes a lot of time. As soon as I have a chance to breath and process all of this I plan to do just that, and keep busy.


----------



## Constable Odo

happy as a clam said:


> You are living a lie.


Truer words were never penned. Whether the OPs posting is truthful, or a troll, these 5 words apply.




LonelyGirl1963 said:


> The first one makes sense the second is crass and disgusting.


To each their own.


----------



## bandit.45

Tell your husband what you did and give him a divorce. He will hate you, yes. I'm sorry but you would deserve it. If you were bored with the marriage you could have done 100 other things other than cheat. 

At some point your lover boy or his wife is going to get pissed off and tell your husband. Sh!t floats to the top of the water. You WILL get outed at some point. Up to now you have been lucky...

It would be better if he heard it from you.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> If this is real I can tell you EXACTLY what to do.
> 
> 1-build a real, complete, independent life. Go to the gym, join some social groups, meet other women in volunteer organizations or hobby areas. Get a hobby - biking, walking, running, sewing, painting, anything that is interesting and begins to allow you to define yourself.
> 
> 2- see a shrink and work through your low self esteem and dependency issues.
> 
> 3-tell your husband everything. Vs tart by writing down a complete timeline. Own it all. No blame shifting - no "I was lonely" - that's obvious and distracts from him hearing you tell him you own it all. He can own his problems later.
> 
> 4-expect to move out. Bask for his help to move out OM so you can move in there. By our marriage has been over for years - put a fork in it. It's not what you want and it's not what he wants.
> 
> 5-IF he isn't completely emasculated and destroyed - which he probably will be - you can always start "dating" again - BUT IN NEW, realistic terms that meets your needs - both of you. Read "his needs her needs" - both of you need to see how you have failed in this relationship.
> 
> The goal is to become a complete person, let husband make independent informed decisions, and stop the madness.


Yes this is real and I should write a book. Thanks for the advise. I used to work out 3 times a week with a trainer and I have just joined a gym. I'm going to look at my insurance and see if it covers some type of counseling. I will ask the counselor about the true confessions part.

Who knows maybe the silver lining in all of this is forcing me (us) to finally resolve some old issues. He is pretty well adjusted but I am coming to grips with the fact that I am not. All of these past 7 years while helping my loneliness has also brought my anxiety levels through the roof and the latest chapter in the story really pointed that out to me. I really feel like I'm losing it and I need to get a grip.

Thanks for your suggestions. I appreciate it.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> BTW - female trainer; female hobby and volunteer partners. You need to develop yourself independent of your relationship with men. You rely too much on then for validation IMHO


Very true LOL, but I can't afford a trainer this time around, I need to spend the money on counseling. I will probably pursue some of my old hobbies and meet people that way or maybe start a new business and yes find some more female friends. Most of my friends (platonic) are guys.

Little more background. My husband has always hated my friends. Not my guy friends because they are his friends too, but my female friends. The feeling was mutual they hated too.


----------



## soccermom2three

Google "Eviction Services". There are companies out there that process evictions and they are way cheaper than using an attorney. They know the local laws so it's done right the first time.


----------



## Mark72

Not to sound like a troll, but wouldn't it be ironic if the reason he is gone 75% of the time is that he is also leading a double life? How would OP feel about that?


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I should probably see a psychologist but I can't afford one right now.


You could if you stop supporting your boy toy. 

Sell the house and get a therapist. 2 birds with one stone.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Mark72 said:


> Not to sound like a troll, but wouldn't it be ironic if the reason he is gone 75% of the time is that he is also leading a double life? How would OP feel about that?


Unless he has been cheating on me from day 1 it's not something I worry about. Because he has always been the same.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Report the [email protected] from London to the immigration authorities immediately - heck, report him to the home office in the UK too (who knows if he is legal there too ?)

PS I know a good spiritualist who can muster up your mom's ghost to scare him out of the house if you want


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

manfromlamancha said:


> Report the [email protected] from London to the immigration authorities immediately - heck, report him to the home office in the UK too (who knows if he is legal there too ?)
> 
> PS I know a good spiritualist who can muster up your mom's ghost to scare him out of the house if you want


HaHa sounds like a plan! He's all Brit so he is legal there.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Thank you all for your advise and input. I really appreciate it. All the advise given to me may not be right for me but at the very least opens up new avenues of thought. Thank you Just Tired for finally believing this was not a fake. When I was reading it back to myself it was kind of like 'Wow'. Elegirl thank you for rescuing me from the hounds and allowing me to share my story, and also for your advise.

Gus, raspberries to you, I bet you are fun at a party. Constable Odo for your information I'm a dog lady and I would never have 2 cats eating the face off of my cold dead body. It would most likely be a pitbull. For all of you other judgmental men who would like to see me in stocks in the middle of the square, I wish I could gift you with some middle brain emotion receptors. You had 5 times as many of them while you were all still girls in the womb, until that wash of testosterone came along and wiped most of them out. I guess you really are from Mars so you get a pass. Empathy is an important human quality we should all embrace. I may be stupid about my own life, but I am empathetic. Nothing happens in a vacuum so there are always many factors. That's probably why we are not still stoning people to death and we actually have courts of law and therapists. For all you guys who gave genuine advise, I so appreciate you.

I would like to continue to update my progress and post to other threads. I may be lousy about running my own life, but I have at times given pretty good advise to others. What is it they say, if you can't do teach. I think we can learn a lot about ourselves from the struggles of others. Thanks for listening!


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> You could if you stop supporting your boy toy.
> 
> Sell the house and get a therapist. 2 birds with one stone.


I have stopped supporting him and I will probably rent or sell the house.
I talked to hubby today about therapy and he was actually very supportive and told me he thought our new insurance would cover it.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Xenote said:


> Actually my life is good thank you for asking, and i will be the first to admit i don't walk on water (although i do know where the rocks are so it only looks like that), I am made my share of mistakes and at times continue to do so. I have only one question, you love him but he did not meet you needs...i get that....so 7 years or 3 years ago when you brought that guy over, why did you not just divorce your husband? you could have walked away....started a new life with this guy instead you strung him along and your husband....if your still in love with this guy then do your husband a favor leave him, maybe you will find happiness this guy maybe you won't but at least you can wake up each morning not living a lie.


This is kind of in the way of an update and I can also answer your question. The green card wife was texting me hysterically today. Going on about how he still loves me and are we going to be friends and are we going to still have sex. I told her no we are not and we aren't even going to have a relationship.

Apparently she has been so distraught that she has been at home sick and throwing up. He told her he would come over to be with her and the lame jerk didn't even bother to show up, and now he is not even answering her calls. I told her she should just show up and talk to him. You know what she said? She said well he invited me to come over later tonight so I will see him then. Invited her, invited her, really? They are married. I told her I would turn off the utilities and that would force him out because they are newlyweds and this should be a happy time for them and they should want to be together. She said, "No, don't do that, I want him to be happy." I think she is just afraid she will lose him.

So to answer your question, God has been watching out for me, because I am beginning to see what a weak twisted loser he really is. I made a lot of excuses for him in my mind but I was wrong. Regardless of whether he is still in love with me or not, if I had married him he would have treated me the same way.

As an adjunct I will continue to talk to her for two reasons. One because I genuinely feel sorry for her, and she is a powder keg about to explode. I just want to let things smooth out and not poke at everyone with a stick until I can safely extricate myself from the situation. If I can't there is always plan 'B'. I think he is too much of a coward to ever tell my husband, but she is dangerous because she is acting so unstable. I'm going to help her and at the same time keep my friends close and my enemies closer.


----------



## Mark72

At some point, the 3 years PA and the 4 year EA will come out. Do you think it would be best for it to happen on your terms rather than let circumstance dictate how it happens?


----------



## ConanHub

OP. Stop assuming that because many of us have little to no compassion for a remorseless, shameless cheater like you that we are the ones with a problem.

It isn't a male issue. Many women are outraged by cheating as well, especially by someone as self centered as you.

Start caring about your betrayed husband and confessing to him and doing everything in your power to show him remorse while totally going No Contact with your walking dildo. Then you will have my attention and compassion.

Why the hell should we care about you?

You obviously only care about yourself and could give a shyt who you trample with your selfish actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

We have empathy. Empathy for the one who deserves it: your husband. Too bad you don't.


----------



## Nomorebeans

As a woman who has been cheated on, and as a Grammar and semantics junkie, I'll just say three things to you, LonelyGirl:

The noun form of the word is spelled "advice," not "advise."

Anyone who can cheat on her or his spouse for years like you have on yours is not capable of empathy, as you claim to be. Empathy is where you can imagine what pain you have not experienced would feel like (the implication being that you would then not wish to inflict it upon another). The word you're looking for is sympathy - where you feel for others who've experienced pain that you've experienced, too. The jury is still out on whether you're capable of that one.

I have neither empathy nor sympathy for you. And that would be the case whether I'd ever been cheated on or not. You have made your bed, and now you're lying in it. I frankly don't care what you do. I'm just glad to see proof, once again, that what goes around comes around.


----------



## morituri

Your OM committed visa fraud and is now subject to deportation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

From *Risks of Entering the U.S. as a Tourist, Then Applying for Marriage-Based Green Card*:



> Many fiancés and spouses of U.S. citzens, who are planning to immigrate from overseas, wonder why they cannot simply use a tourist visa to enter the United States, or enter on the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). They know they will spend a long time outside the United States waiting for their proper visa, while their fiancé or spouse is living inside the United States. And they also know that a tourist visa (a B-1 visitor visa) can be gotten in a few days from a local U.S. consulate -- or if they're from certain countries, is unnecessary, because they can enter using solely their passport, according to the VWP. So why, they wonder, can’t they just pick up a tourist visa, come to the United States, and then worry about the rest of the green card application process once they are here?
> 
> There are two problems with this idea. First, if you pose as a tourist (whether with a visa or on the VWP) with the secret intention of staying in the United States for an indefinite time, you will have committed visa fraud. Visitor visas, or indeed any temporary visas, are for people who intend to stay temporarily -- and then leave. They are not for people who plan to marry and live happily ever after in the United States. If U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS, formerly called “INS”) chooses to make an issue of it, your misuse of a tourist visa could lead to your losing the right to obtain a marriage-based green card and most other types of U.S. visas.
> 
> USCIS will be especially suspicious if you get married within two months of entering the United States. Sometimes USCIS will turn a blind eye, or you may be able to convince the officer who interviews you for the green card that when you entered the U.S. on a temporary visa you really planned a short stay (and only decided to marry or apply for a green card after you arrived). If USCIS remains unconvinced, you can ask the agency to forgive your error, but obtaining such forgiveness (in legalese, a “waiver”) is not easy.
> 
> EXAMPLE 1:
> 
> Boris enters the United States on the Visa Waiver Program, marries Sarah (a U.S. citizen) a week later, and they apply for his green card in Chicago. At their green card interview, the officer asks, “When did you decide to get married?” Boris answers, “Oh, I asked Sarah to marry me during a phone call last month, and when she said yes, I was so happy that I packed my bags, got on the earliest cheap plane flight, and we were married in the Elvis Chapel in Las Vegas the following Monday.” This is an unfortunate answer, because it practically forces the immigration officer to notice that Boris committed visa fraud.
> 
> EXAMPLE 2:
> 
> Gregor enters the United States as a tourist, marries Eileen (a U.S. citizen) three months later, and they apply for his green card in New York. At the green card interview the officer asks, “What was your intention when you entered the United States?” Gregor says, “Our relationship was going very well long-distance, so I decided to travel to the United States to see Eileen in person. Frankly, it was also time for a vacation. A few weeks after I arrived, we realized we were really and truly in love. And when that feeling didn’t wear off, we decided to marry.” This answer has promise. Even if this couple was contemplating marriage before Gregor arrived, his candid answer, plus the fact that they waited over two months to get married, makes clear that Gregor did not just use the tourist visa to get around the U.S. immigration laws.
> 
> The second problem with using a tourist visa for U.S. entry is that if your U.S. fiancé or spouse is a permanent resident (not a citizen), you will (due to annual limits on visa allotments) likely have to wait for years until you are eligible for permanent residence or a green card. That means that if you come to the United States as a tourist and your visa runs out, you will be here illegally for all of those years of waiting. Living here illegally will ultimately make getting a green card extremely difficult


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Mark72 said:


> At some point, the 3 years PA and the 4 year EA will come out. Do you think it would be best for it to happen on your terms rather than let circumstance dictate how it happens?


Mark it's quite possible it will never come out. We don't travel in the same circles, so the only way it would is if she has a total meltdown and she blames me and thinks getting rid of me will solve her problems. I've gotten rid of myself in this situation, and offered to help her, so as long as I steer clear of them maybe I won't get outed.

Maybe you have read my other posts, and this is the advise I would give a friend, if it serves a purpose then do it. If it will only hurt the other person and change nothing then don't. As far as my past that ship has sailed, I can't change it now. Why hurt my husband if I don't have to. Honestly I don't even think he would leave me over this. He is a reasonable person when it comes down to it and he knows he has been very neglectful in our marriage. That does not make what I did right, but it would help him justify it. 

What needs work is first of all me, and then then marriage.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> I have to admit I'm disappointed you are not considering exposing this, taking your medicine, so you can move on. It's not fair to hubby - but selfishly, it prevents you from making a clean (sort of) break and taking control of your life. Consider it - you're young enough to fix yourself and start over.


Do you see a reason why I can't fix myself and start over without true confessions. If retribution is the thing believe me I'm getting it even if it's not from my husband.

An argument could be made for me telling him I cheated because you had so little interest in our marriage, so take that and I hope it breaks your heart because you broke mine. I don't want to do that. Why?

I respect your opinion and yours is probably more the norm than mine.


----------



## bandit.45

He hasn't been that neglectful. 

See, when you cheat for as long as you have you unconsciously inflict upon yourself a sort of self-brainwashing, where you look back and mentally catalogue and then amplify all your husband's past mistakes and shortcomings in order to alleviate the guilt you feel for violating your marriage vows and hurting the one person on this earth whose love and feelings you were supposed to cherish and protect. Some people here call it Re-writing history. It's all part of the coping mechanisms you have to build up within your psyche. 

Here is what I predict will happen....

You will sit on this dirty secret for years to come, all the while living with this low, deep, dull anxiety that one day your not-so-clueless husband will find out what you did. Letting this toxic shame build up in your tissues like a slow rot. That anxiety will lead to stress that will then take the form of physical and psychological manifestations...skin disease, colorectal disorders, depression, anxiety disorder, panic attacks, phobias....

You think I'm kidding. Just wander over to Surviving Infidelity and read about how cheating has ruined the health and psyches of the waywards on that site. It is repleat with such anecdotes. 

As you go forward hiding this secret, you will also build up even more resentment for your husband for being the honest one with integrity who actually loves you, while you being a liar and cheat are unable to make such claims. Unable to pull yourself up out of the hole you have dug for yourself, and seeing no end in sight, you will take all that built up anger and disgust at yourself and turn it outwards. I'm sure you are already doing this to him to some extent, as he spends his days wondering what he has done to piss you off. 

And you say your husband would not react that badly if he found out...

Well that just demonstrates how detached you have become and how little empathy you have for him. I guarantee you this, the day he finds out what you have been doing you will meet a man whom you have never met before. The anguish, heartbreak, pain and anger that you will see erupt from him will wipe out all your misconceptions about the man who you THINK you have been married to. Fool yourself all you want, at some point down the road this house of cards you have built will come crashing down. He will find out one day. 

Sh!t floats to the top of the water eventually.


----------



## Maricha75

One day, LonelyGirl, the truth will come out. It would be better for it to come from you then from someone else. Do you honestly believe that neither your boy toy nor his new wife has told SOMEONE about it all? Someone, somewhere, knows something. It could be his old friends in England. It could be anyone in your town. Somebody knows. And if you don't tell your husband yourself, one of them, or someone they told, will. And if you truly want to fix your marriage, you will start over fresh... by telling the truth. And don't put the blame of the affair on your husband. YOU made the choice to have the affair. You had options, and that was the choice YOU made. He is to blame for his part of the problems in your marriage. But the affair? Not to blame. That's on you.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Do you see a reason why I can't fix myself and start over without true confessions. If retribution is the thing believe me I'm getting it even if it's not from my husband.
> 
> An argument could be made for me telling him I cheated because you had so little interest in our marriage, so take that and I hope it breaks your heart because you broke mine. I don't want to do that. Why?


If that's what you think people are suggesting, you're wrong. 

Obviously you do not highly value honesty and integrity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Do you see a reason why I can't fix myself and start over without true confessions. If retribution is the thing believe me I'm getting it even if it's not from my husband.
> 
> *An argument could be made for me telling him I cheated because you had so little interest in our marriage, so take that and I hope it breaks your heart because you broke mine. I don't want to do that. Why?*
> 
> I respect your opinion and yours is probably more the norm than mine.


Right off the top of my head? Money. Though you've deprived your husband of a faithful spouse, thereby breaking your desecrating your marriage vows, you have absolutely no problem w/ continuing to accept and benefit from the profits of his labor. In fact, you feel downright entitled to it. Confessing your years-long infidelity to him would potentially disrupt the $$$, and you're not having any of that.

Second, you'd prefer that your image and reputation not be tarnished where your husband, family, and friends are concerned. After all, while it's true that you might be an entitled, remorseless cheat, there's no reason that any of them need to know that... right?

Basically, you're morally vacuous and amazingly self-centered. And you're completely at peace w/ that.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

ConanHub said:


> OP. Stop assuming that because many of us have little to no compassion for a remorseless, shameless cheater like you that we are the ones with a problem.
> 
> It isn't a male issue. Many women are outraged by cheating as well, especially by someone as self centered as you.
> 
> Start caring about your betrayed husband and confessing to him and doing everything in your power to show him remorse while totally going No Contact with your walking dildo. Then you will have my attention and compassion.
> 
> Why the hell should we care about you?
> 
> You obviously only care about yourself and could give a shyt who you trample with your selfish actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh did I rankle you. Sorry! I don't need your approval or your compassion, and I'm not asking for it. Have you lived a perfect life? Because if you think you have, you have a much higher opinion of yourself than you deserve. Let me guess? Did someone cheat on you and break your heart? And if they did I bet it was all their fault and you the perfect being that you are had no part in it.

What has made you so passionate about telling me what a piece of **** I am. You hardly know me. Where did that come from? And I don't recall asking anyone to care about me. I'm asking for opinions and some common courtesy which is obviously not in your repertoire.

My mother always told me I didn't have to like everyone but I did need to be polite. I guess you weren't raised that way. I think, and tell me if I'm wrong, this is supposed to be a discussion group of mature people not abusive, and rude adolescent children.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

morituri said:


> Your OM committed visa fraud and is now subject to deportation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).
> 
> From *Risks of Entering the U.S. as a Tourist, Then Applying for Marriage-Based Green Card*:


I know it says all that, but practically speaking it probably won't happen. There are such blatant abuses of the fiance visa and the adjustment of status that follows that anything even approaching looking legit passes for a marriage. It's my understanding that funding is the problem. Not enough resources to really investigate properly. He will more than likely get that green card.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Oh did I rankle you. Sorry! I don't need your approval or your compassion, and I'm not asking for it. Have you lived a perfect life? Because if you think you have, you have a much higher opinion of yourself than you deserve. Let me guess? Did someone cheat on you and break your heart? And if they did I bet it was all their fault and you the perfect being that you are had no part in it.
> 
> What has made you so passionate about telling me what a piece of **** I am. You hardly know me. Where did that come from? And I don't recall asking anyone to care about me. I'm asking for opinions and some common courtesy which is obviously not in your repertoire.
> 
> My mother always told me I didn't have to like everyone but I did need to be polite. I guess you weren't raised that way. I think, and tell me if I'm wrong, this is supposed to be a discussion group of mature people not abusive, and rude adolescent children.


Blameshift much?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> He hasn't been that neglectful.
> 
> See, when you cheat for as long as you have you unconsciously inflict upon yourself a sort of self-brainwashing, where you look back and mentally catalogue and then amplify all your husband's past mistakes and shortcomings in order to alleviate the guilt you feel for violating your marriage vows and hurting the one person on this earth whose love and feelings you were supposed to cherish and protect. Some people here call it Re-writing history. It's all part of the coping mechanisms you have to build up within your psyche.
> 
> Here is what I predict will happen....
> 
> You will sit on this dirty secret for years to come, all the while living with this low, deep, dull anxiety that one day your not-so-clueless husband will find out what you did. Letting this toxic shame build up in your tissues like a slow rot. That anxiety will lead to stress that will then take the form of physical and psychological manifestations...skin disease, colorectal disorders, depression, anxiety disorder, panic attacks, phobias....
> 
> You think I'm kidding. Just wander over to Surviving Infidelity and read about how cheating has ruined the health and psyches of the waywards on that site. It is repleat with such anecdotes.
> 
> As you go forward hiding this secret, you will also build up even more resentment for your husband for being the honest one with integrity who actually loves you, while you being a liar and cheat are unable to make such claims. Unable to pull yourself up out of the hole you have dug for yourself, and seeing no end in sight, you will take all that built up anger and disgust at yourself and turn it outwards. I'm sure you are already doing this to him to some extent, as he spends his days wondering what he has done to piss you off.
> 
> And you say your husband would not react that badly if he found out...
> 
> Well that just demonstrates how detached you have become and how little empathy you have for him. I guarantee you this, the day he finds out what you have been doing you will meet a man whom you have never met before. The anguish, heartbreak, pain and anger that you will see erupt from him will wipe out all your misconceptions about the man who you THINK you have been married to. Fool yourself all you want, at some point down the road this house of cards you have built will come crashing down. He will find out one day.
> 
> Sh!t floats to the top of the water eventually.


I'm not going to say you are wrong because I don't know. You may very well be right. I can tell you this I am suffering from a lot of anxiety and have been for a long time, even before the affair. I have not really been covering things up very well and have gotten more and more careless and yet he seems not to notice. But I have to believe he has because he is very observant about most other things. So the only conclusion I can draw is he does not want to know, or for whatever reason he doesn't care.


----------



## GusPolinski

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I'm not going to say you are wrong because I don't know. You may very well be right. I can tell you this I am suffering from a lot of anxiety and have been for a long time, even before the affair. I have not really been covering things up very well and have gotten more and more careless and yet he seems not to notice. But I have to believe he has because he is very observant about most other things. So the only conclusion I can draw is he does not want to know, or for whatever reason he doesn't care.


Or he trusts that your character is leaps and bounds better than it actually is.

Poor, stupid bastard.


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Oh did I rankle you. Sorry! I don't need your approval or your compassion, and I'm not asking for it. Have you lived a perfect life? Because if you think you have, you have a much higher opinion of yourself than you deserve. Let me guess? Did someone cheat on you and break your heart? And if they did I bet it was all their fault and you the perfect being that you are had no part in it.
> 
> What has made you so passionate about telling me what a piece of **** I am. You hardly know me. Where did that come from? And I don't recall asking anyone to care about me. I'm asking for opinions and some common courtesy which is obviously not in your repertoire.
> 
> My mother always told me I didn't have to like everyone but I did need to be polite. I guess you weren't raised that way. I think, and tell me if I'm wrong, this is supposed to be a discussion group of mature people not abusive, and rude adolescent children.


Oh, this is a discussion, sweetheart. My parents always taught me to tell the truth. When teaching you to be polite, did your mom skip the part about not lying? Before you ask, I am the one who messed up in my marriage first. But I owned my shyt. My husband forgave me and we are doing fine. What has many of us p!ssed off is that you feel no remorse for what you've done to your husband. None. You come up with EXCUSES as to why you shouldn't. And honestly, I am thinking that was the real purpose in posting your thread. This happens from time to time. Someone, and it could be a genuine story at times, will post a story and then continue defending his or her actions, regarding the affair. The real purpose was actually to get well known, vocal members, who speak against infidelity, banned. I just hope it gets curtailed before that happens.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 said:


> One day, LonelyGirl, the truth will come out. It would be better for it to come from you then from someone else. Do you honestly believe that neither your boy toy nor his new wife has told SOMEONE about it all? Someone, somewhere, knows something. It could be his old friends in England. It could be anyone in your town. Somebody knows. And if you don't tell your husband yourself, one of them, or someone they told, will. And if you truly want to fix your marriage, you will start over fresh... by telling the truth. And don't put the blame of the affair on your husband. YOU made the choice to have the affair. You had options, and that was the choice YOU made. He is to blame for his part of the problems in your marriage. But the affair? Not to blame. That's on you.


I don't blame him, it was my choice. I'm only saying that is why I did it. My emotional and physical needs were not being met. Instead of having an affair I should have gotten a divorce but I didn't because of some of my own long standing personal issues. And again all of you maybe right about confessing. The stuff that bites you in the butt are the things you never see coming.


----------



## GusPolinski

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, this is a discussion, sweetheart. My parents always taught me to tell the truth. When teaching you to be polite, did your mom skip the part about not lying? Before you ask, I am the one who messed up in my marriage first. But I owned my shyt. My husband forgave me and we are doing fine. What has many of us p!ssed off is that you feel no remorse for what you've done to your husband. None. You come up with EXCUSES as to why you shouldn't. And honestly, I am thinking that was the real purpose in posting your thread. This happens from time to time. Someone, and it could be a genuine story at times, will post a story and then continue defending his or her actions, regarding the affair. The real purpose was actually to get well known, vocal members, who speak against infidelity, banned. I just hope it gets curtailed before that happens.


----------



## bandit.45

Another behavior of his that may shock you if you do confess? You may be overwhelmed when you see how much he actually does love you. That will be the worst part. 

Oh well....your decision....


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, this is a discussion, sweetheart. My parents always taught me to tell the truth. When teaching you to be polite, did your mom skip the part about not lying? Before you ask, I am the one who messed up in my marriage first. But I owned my shyt. My husband forgave me and we are doing fine. What has many of us p!ssed off is that you feel no remorse for what you've done to your husband. None. You come up with EXCUSES as to why you shouldn't. And honestly, I am thinking that was the real purpose in posting your thread. This happens from time to time. Someone, and it could be a genuine story at times, will post a story and then continue defending his or her actions, regarding the affair. The real purpose was actually to get well known, vocal members, who speak against infidelity, banned. I just hope it gets curtailed before that happens.


Oh come on get real. The guy is a rude jerk. I actually have better things to do then troll around forums for my own amusement and to get people I don't even know banned. Really? Is that what you think. I don't use terms like "walking dildo". He is really venomous, and rude. He is probably pretty entertaining too for some of you.

At what point did you feel remorse for what you did to your husband. I'm curious and how did your affair end, and why did you have one. I would really like to know because then maybe I would understand where you are coming from.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I can tell you this I am suffering from a lot of anxiety and have been for a long time, even before the affair. I have* not really been covering things up very well* and have gotten *more and more careless*


Why do you think you've done that?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> If that's what you think people are suggesting, you're wrong.
> 
> Obviously you do not highly value honesty and integrity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry I'm just not of the belief that I should hurt someone needlessly because I'm an idiot to clear my own conscience. Does that mean that in every aspect of my life I lack integrity. Do I value honesty, of course.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> as I can see you are *typical men *with *absolutely no empath*y. But I guess that is *not your fault because your brains* only have 20% of the emotional receptors that women have





LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Might I add Constable Odo *yours is probably 2" long at best* and not 10 LOL.





LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Just Tired *I'm sure you are tired*. It takes a lot of energy going from forum to forum reading every post and *trolling*. LOL. *Jeeze and you people are laughing at me*.





LonelyGirl1963 said:


> For all of you other* judgmental men* who would like to see me in stocks in the middle of the square, I wish I could *gift you with some middle brain emotion receptors*. You had 5 times as many of them while you were all still girls in the womb, until that wash of testosterone came along and wiped most of them out. *I guess you really are from Mars*





LonelyGirl1963 said:


> He told her he would come over to be with her and the *lame jerk* didn't even bother to show up...
> 
> God has been watching out for me, because I am beginning to see what a *weak twisted loser* he really is....
> 
> I think he is *too much of a coward* to ever tell my husband,





LonelyGirl1963 said:


> you had so little interest in our marriage, so* take that and I hope it breaks your heart* because you broke mine.





LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Oh *did I rankle you*. Sorry! I don't need your approval or your compassion, and I'm not asking for it. Have you lived a perfect life? Because if you think you have, *you have a much higher opinion of yourself than you deserve*. Let me guess?* Did someone cheat on you and break your heart? *
> 
> My mother always told me I didn't have to like everyone but I did need to be polite. *I guess you weren't raised that way*. I think, and tell me if I'm wrong, this is supposed to be a discussion group of mature people not *abusive, and rude adolescent children*.





LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Oh come on get real. The guy is a *rude jerk*. ...He is really* venomous, and rude*.


How exactly would you describe your attitude?


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I'm sorry I'm just not of the belief that I should hurt someone needlessly because I'm an idiot to clear my own conscience. Does that mean that in every aspect of my life I lack integrity.* Do I value honesty, of course.*


Then is telling the truth really needless?


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Oh come on get real. The guy is a rude jerk. I actually have better things to do then troll around forums for my own amusement and to get people I don't even know banned. Really? Is that what you think. I don't use terms like "walking dildo". He is really venomous, and rude. He is probably pretty entertaining too for some of you.


In this thread, at least, I have not noticed anything that would be classified as venomous, nor rude, except in reply to your own snide remarks. And I haven't paid much attention to his possible entertainment qualities, either. In fact, if I went back through all the threads he and I have posted on, I likely disagree with him, often. On this subject? Total agreement.

Why would I think you created the thread for that purpose? I really don't know. Perhaps your attitude toward most of us telling you that your husband deserves to know the truth, even if you THINK he already knows? That is a pretty big clue right there. Like I said, I am not saying your story is a lie at all. What I am saying is you truly do seem to want to hear the "It's ok. Your big mean husband ignored you so of course you couldn't help it. Shhhh! Don't tell him! What he doesn't know can't hurt him!" Unfortunately, for a remorseless spouse such as yourself, that is not the advice you will get here.



LonelyGirl1963 said:


> At what point did you feel remorse for what you did to your husband. I'm curious and how did your affair end, and why did you have one. I would really like to know because then maybe I would understand where you are coming from.


When did I feel remorse? I honestly cannot remember. I do remember that it was before I told him what happened. He wasn't as clueless as I had thought. And yes, he DID care. He just didn't act like he did... or it didn't SEEM like he did. 

My affair didn't end due to discovery, if that was what you were wondering. It just ended. And I told my husband everything. We worked it out, together. 

You are trying to figure out where I am coming from? I am coming from the perspective of a wife who cheated on her husband and knew that if there was even the slightest chance that we could fix our marriage problems and rebuild, I had to tell him the truth. Keeping it secret would make it a reconciliation in name, only. That elephant would still be in the room, even if HE didn't know it, or I didn't think he did. Either way, he deserved to know the truth, rather than continuing a lie. And, in continuing to lie to your husband, you are not really working on fixing anything... no matter how much you may think you are.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> Why do you think you've done that?


I think probably hoping he would find out or hoping he would notice. The fact that he didn't care enough to reinforced how I justified having the affair in the first place. Honestly when all of this started 7 years ago I could have painted my face green and he would not have noticed.

Since then he has begun to realize how much he has favored business and hobbies over spending time with family. Not just me but parents and siblings too. His mother's passing really opened his eyes. He also got caught in the recession and lost a lot financially. I think it somehow made him think that maybe spending time with the ones you love is more important than making money. Money can be gone and you have wasted your entire life on things and success instead of what really matters.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I think probably hoping he would find out or hoping he would notice.


Because of guilt, or for attention?



LonelyGirl1963 said:


> The fact that he didn't care enough to


... is an assumption, not a fact.


----------



## MountainRunner

You're a cheater and you don't strike me as particularly remorseful. I am a cheater too.

But here is the difference between you and I...

I knew, yes...even before D-Day, that what I was doing was wrong. I wanted out of the affair, but given how ****ed up my head is, I didn't know how to go about it. It took my wife discovering my affair for me to "wake up" and start doing something about myself lest I completely destroy our marriage.

I say again...You show no remorse nor do you show any proclivity to own your own ****.

You don't deserve your husband....And remember, this is from one cheater to another...get it?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 said:


> In this thread, at least, I have not noticed anything that would be classified as venomous, nor rude, except in reply to your own snide remarks. And I haven't paid much attention to his possible entertainment qualities, either. In fact, if I went back through all the threads he and I have posted on, I likely disagree with him, often. On this subject? Total agreement.
> 
> Why would I think you created the thread for that purpose? I really don't know. Perhaps your attitude toward most of us telling you that your husband deserves to know the truth, even if you THINK he already knows? That is a pretty big clue right there. Like I said, I am not saying your story is a lie at all. What I am saying is you truly do seem to want to hear the "It's ok. Your big mean husband ignored you so of course you couldn't help it. Shhhh! Don't tell him! What he doesn't know can't hurt him!" Unfortunately, for a remorseless spouse such as yourself, that is not the advice you will get here.
> 
> 
> 
> When did I feel remorse? I honestly cannot remember. I do remember that it was before I told him what happened. He wasn't as clueless as I had thought. And yes, he DID care. He just didn't act like he did... or it didn't SEEM like he did.
> 
> My affair didn't end due to discovery, if that was what you were wondering. It just ended. And I told my husband everything. We worked it out, together.
> 
> You are trying to figure out where I am coming from? I am coming from the perspective of a wife who cheated on her husband and knew that if there was even the slightest chance that we could fix our marriage problems and rebuild, I had to tell him the truth. Keeping it secret would make it a reconciliation in name, only. That elephant would still be in the room, even if HE didn't know it, or I didn't think he did. Either way, he deserved to know the truth, rather than continuing a lie. And, in continuing to lie to your husband, you are not really working on fixing anything... no matter how much you may think you are.


Is there still an elephant in the room, but it's just a new one. Does he mistrust you now and freak out every time you are out of touch with him or over phone calls or texts? Is he frightened that it will happen again? If you did get back to a point of trust, how long did it take?

It's not that I don't have remorse. I do. I'm just so damn scared. I have separation anxiety. I'm not using that as an excuse for what I did. I just think it's why I didn't divorce which would have been the honorable and honest thing to do. I have no family, no children, nobody except him and my former lover. My lover was more then that and it was not just about sex. After 7 years it's not just about that. He was my family too. Just him and my husband. The thought of being completely alone in the world is almost more than I can take. I mean really. I should have gotten a divorce instead of having an affair but I just couldn't do it because of my fear of being completely alone in the world. I know that is an illness that you think of only children having but I had it then and I still have it. Only then they did not recognize it or treat it. I don't want to do anything drastic until I talk to a therapist or something because right now I don't trust my own judgement. Everybody thinks it's about the sex but that was probably the least of it. It was more about the companionship and having someone to share things with and do things with. My husband and I have had sex maybe 10 times in the last 15 years and not at all in the last 7. We have been like room mates for a long time. One thing I have never done in my life is sleep with 2 men at the same time. Maybe that is why I don't feel remorse to the degree everyone thinks I should because I only slept with my lover and not my husband. What ever it's a mess, I'm a mess, and I was hoping this place could be a start of trying to figure it out and it has helped.


----------



## MountainRunner

Another thought or two...

Us cheaters use all sorts of reasoning to justify our behavior. Call out any cheater who shows no remorse and you'll be met with the standard "Sure, but..." with the "but" being the defining word, know what I mean?

I could have done that as well. I could have used all the standard "I cheated because she didn't give me sex" line, but I didn't. I owned my behavior, and more importantly...

I did something about it instead of making excuses.

I am now immersed heavily in therapy, and you wanna know why? Because I love my wife and I love our marriage. I am a severely flawed person (all my life), but now that I know that...I am doing something about it.

What are you doing other than making excuses?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> Because of guilt, or for attention?
> 
> 
> 
> ... is an assumption, not a fact.


Zillard it's all about your point of reference. I think more like anger at his inattention. Not sure really.


----------



## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I think more like anger at his inattention. Not sure really.


Excuses. Start owning your behavior my friend.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I think more like anger at his inattention. Not sure really.


That certainly fits well with the other things you've written.

And btw, is the opposite of remorse.


----------



## ConanHub

Are my words more venomous than you remorselessly, selfishly betraying your husband for years?

Do you really think your affair partner deserves more respect from me?

Do you think your AP looks at you as more than a meal ticket and a cheap piece of ass?

I don't see how you have been anything else to him.

You actually make me smile.

You are absolutely ignorant of how wretched your actions are but very sensitive and thin skinned when spoken to in harsh terms.

Haven't been cheated on BTW. I don't put up with shytty behavior.

I did lose a friend to suicide when his wife kept cheating on him.

I might take pathetic behavior a little more seriously than you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> How exactly would you describe your attitude?


As one very pissed off person. Are you a therapist in real life or something? 

You know I'm not intentionally mean to people, but I've been a pleaser type for my entire life and always went along to get along and taken everyone's crap and it's ok for them to say anything they want to me and yet I'm supposed to not say anything back to them. I'm sorry but I'm done with that. Why in your mind is it ok for them to say rude things to me and yet when I respond everyone gets pissed. I know I'm the new kid on the block here but fair is fair.

You can't goad people and expect they won't have something something to say about it.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

MountainRunner said:


> Excuses. Start owning your behavior my friend.


Making excuses and just trying to figure out what has motivated me to do it are not the same. I think I know what made me do it but I'm not sure.

I take full responsibility for it and if I get thrown out on my cheating ass then it's because of the choices I have made. If that is what you mean by owning it then I own it. If not then elaborate.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I'm asking what to do about me ...I just need a sounding board.


You're getting what you asked for, and are defiant.


----------



## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> You know I'm not intentionally mean to people, but I've been a pleaser type for my entire life...


I don't see the word "selfish" in this statement, why is that?

Again...one cheater to another...not that you'll acknowledge that because what I'm seeing here is no ownership and a whole lot of obfuscation and deflection.


----------



## MountainRunner

zillard said:


> *You're getting what you asked for, and are defiant.*


:iagree:


----------



## morituri

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I know it says all that, but practically speaking it probably won't happen. There are such blatant abuses of the fiance visa and the adjustment of status that follows that anything even approaching looking legit passes for a marriage. It's my understanding that funding is the problem. Not enough resources to really investigate properly. He will more than likely get that green card.


Have you at least tried?

ICE has a HSI (Homeland Security Investigations) tip line 1-866-347-2423 to report *marriage fraud*.

Use it.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

ConanHub said:


> I did lose a friend to suicide when his wife kept cheating on him.
> 
> I might take pathetic behavior a little more seriously than you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm very sorry about your friend. That is a very tragic consequence of a cheating spouse. So now I understand the harsh words. Thanks for telling me. You did suffer a huge loss because of an affair. Maybe that is why you post here, maybe it gives you some sort of release.

Beyond that I don't know what to say. Is my behavior pathetic? Yes it is and it is weak. Do I want to tell my husband. No I don't. I'm not convinced it is the right thing to do. Everyone disagrees with me. I know that.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Is my behavior pathetic? Yes it is and it is weak. Do I want to tell my husband. No I don't. I'm not convinced it is the right thing to do. Everyone disagrees with me. I know that.


You've admitted that you are presently very angry, afraid, and weak. 

Do want to know the best ways to address those issues?


----------



## morituri

Have you thought that your husband might have had/is having an affair of his own? If that is the case, then his odd behavior (by your assessment of his powers of perception) is not odd at all. He might have used/is using your affair to cover his.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

MountainRunner said:


> I don't see the word "selfish" in this statement, why is that?
> 
> Again...one cheater to another...not that you'll acknowledge that because what I'm seeing here is no ownership and a whole lot of obfuscation and deflection.


If I seem unclear it is because I am in my own mind. As far as the selfish part, I don't think it is selfish to expect certain things from a husband or a wife, or anyone you have any kind of relationship with. Probably the only true altruistic relationship is between a mother and her child. We all gain things from what we do. We even get something from charitable acts. It makes us feel good about ourselves. Was what I did selfish? I have not thought about it. I don't know if it was selfish by your definition of selfish. That is kind of a subjective term.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> You've admitted that you are presently very angry, afraid, and weak.
> 
> Do want to know the best ways to address those issues?


I don't even have to ask because you are probably going to tell me the best way to cure all my problems is to fess up. LOL. I feel like I'm sitting at a table with a bright light in my face and someone saying "where were you on the night of January 4th at 10 pm". Just kidding! I guess I'm being defiant again.


----------



## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> If I seem unclear it is because I am in my own mind. As far as the selfish part, I don't think it is selfish to expect certain things from a husband or a wife, or anyone you have any kind of relationship with. Probably the only true altruistic relationship is between a mother and her child. We all gain things from what we do. We even get something from charitable acts. It makes us feel good about ourselves. Was what I did selfish? I have not thought about it. I don't know if it was selfish by your definition of selfish. That is kind of a subjective term.


You're right...I don't understand the mind of a cheater. Nevermind.  *giggles*


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

morituri said:


> Have you thought that your husband might have had/is having an affair of his own? If that is the case, then his odd behavior (by your assessment of his powers of perception) is not odd at all. He might have used/is using your affair to cover his.


I have actually thought of that yes.


----------



## MountainRunner

I'm gonna say it LG...

Until you get help for your "head", you are destined to fail in any/all relationships. You need help. That has been conveyed to you in this thread both subtly and directly. You seem to have dismissed all suggestions. To me, you're not seeking advice to help your marriage; you're seeking acknowledgement and validation for your reprehensible behavior.

You're not going to get it here...Not even from this "cheater".


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I don't even have to ask because you are probably going to tell me the best way to cure all my problems is to fess up. LOL. I feel like I'm sitting at a table with a bright light in my face and someone saying "where were you on the night of January 4th at 10 pm". Just kidding! I guess I'm being defiant again.


I'll take that as a "no" and will quit wasting my time. 

Bon chance.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

morituri said:


> Have you at least tried?
> 
> ICE has a HSI (Homeland Security Investigations) tip line 1-866-347-2423 to report *marriage fraud*.
> 
> Use it.


This all just really came to a head yesterday so I have not yet pursued that, but thanks for the number.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> I'll take that as a "no" and will quit wasting my time.
> 
> Bon chance.


Didn't mean it that way. Sorry I didn't mean to offend you. Sometimes a little levity helps.


----------



## MountainRunner

zillard said:


> I'll take that as a "no" and will quit wasting my time.
> 
> Bon chance.


Agreed....I suppose I'll just add that the cake she's eating is at least organic.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

MountainRunner said:


> I'm gonna say it LG...
> 
> Until you get help for your "head", you are destined to fail in any/all relationships. You need help. That has been conveyed to you in this thread both subtly and directly. You seem to have dismissed all suggestions. To me, you're not seeking advice to help your marriage; you're seeking acknowledgement and validation for your reprehensible behavior.
> 
> You're not going to get it here...Not even from this "cheater".


You are right I do need help for my head. I cannot bring myself to tell him. I really can't. I think I would rather jump off a bridge. That is about 80% of the advise I have been getting here.

Can I ask you something? You keep referring to yourself as a cheater? Why did you cheat? Did you confess? What impact did it have on your marriage after you did?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

LOL you guys are so mean you really are. I guess I could drink some Kool-Aid.


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Is there still an elephant in the room, but it's just a new one. Does he mistrust you now and freak out every time you are out of touch with him or over phone calls or texts? Is he frightened that it will happen again? If you did get back to a point of trust, how long did it take?


He does not watch my every move. He knows he can ask for my phone, my tablet, or even my computer at any time if he feels he needs to check up on me. No questions asked. We even have both of our fingerprints open each other's phones. I don't know when he got to the point he didn't need to check up on me. I don't even know if he ever did. He knows where I am at all times, by my own choice. I call or text him if there is any change to plans. If he is afraid, he hasn't told me. He doesn't appear to be.



LonelyGirl1963 said:


> It's not that I don't have remorse. I do. I'm just so damn scared. I have separation anxiety. I'm not using that as an excuse for what I did. I just think it's why I didn't divorce which would have been the honorable and honest thing to do. I have no family, no children, nobody except him and my former lover. My lover was more then that and it was not just about sex. After 7 years it's not just about that. He was my family too. Just him and my husband. The thought of being completely alone in the world is almost more than I can take. I mean really. I should have gotten a divorce instead of having an affair but I just couldn't do it because of my fear of being completely alone in the world. I know that is an illness that you think of only children having but I had it then and I still have it. Only then they did not recognize it or treat it. I don't want to do anything drastic until I talk to a therapist or something because right now I don't trust my own judgement. Everybody thinks it's about the sex but that was probably the least of it. It was more about the companionship and having someone to share things with and do things with. My husband and I have had sex maybe 10 times in the last 15 years and not at all in the last 7. We have been like room mates for a long time. One thing I have never done in my life is sleep with 2 men at the same time. Maybe that is why I don't feel remorse to the degree everyone thinks I should because I only slept with my lover and not my husband. What ever it's a mess, I'm a mess, and I was hoping this place could be a start of trying to figure it out and it has helped.


And when you say you don't sleep with two men at the same time... you are saying you have been faithful... to your lover... for the last seven years. Whether consciously or subconsciously, you stayed faithful to your lover by not having sex, at all, with your husband. The one man you were supposed to be faithful to, you were not... and you felt that by having relations with him, you would be cheating on your lover. Think about that.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Anyway Mountain Runner and Zillard. Thank you for your help. I really need to let this all soak in and hope it will help me figure out what is the right thing to do. Take care.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 said:


> He does not watch my every move. He knows he can ask for my phone, my tablet, or even my computer at any time if he feels he needs to check up on me. No questions asked. We even have both of our fingerprints open each other's phones. I don't know when he got to the point he didn't need to check up on me. I don't even know if he ever did. He knows where I am at all times, by my own choice. I call or text him if there is any change to plans. If he is afraid, he hasn't told me. He doesn't appear to be.
> 
> 
> 
> And when you say you don't sleep with two men at the same time... you are saying you have been faithful... to your lover... for the last seven years. Whether consciously or subconsciously, you stayed faithful to your lover by not having sex, at all, with your husband. The one man you were supposed to be faithful to, you were not... and you felt that by having relations with him, you would be cheating on your lover. Think about that.


He has not wanted sex from me. Not for a really long time. I finally gave up on it. So yes I've only had relations with my lover. If there would have been a sexual relationship with my husband there would have been no lover. My lover may have been a friend instead but never a lover.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

My husband and I are great friends and I love him but we are like room mates.


----------



## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Can I ask you something? You keep referring to yourself as a cheater? Why did you cheat? Did you confess? What impact did it have on your marriage after you did?


I was wondering if you had it in you to ask. To your credit, I will give you that. You've exhibited more strength than what I've observed. Let's see if you can take it to the next level, shall we? with that being said, I will answer...

Why did I cheat? I lack self esteem. I seek my validation through women. I've been diagnosed with a disorder where I feel I am a fraud and in order to shunt that feeling, I get my validation that I am "something" from the attention from women.

Did I confess? Yes and no...I wasted no time in confessing when she found out. In fact...I was relieved. I wanted out and this was it...even if it destroyed my marriage....I confessed...because I was emotionally involved with 2 women at the time (you can read my story for all the gory, sordid details).

Impact on the marriage? I thought it was over. I told her I would honor whatever she decided. She decided to keep me...provided I met her demands...which I did. I didn't sleep in our bed 2 months. I committed to NC with my APs, I gave her full access to all my email accounts, phone, computers, installed GPS on my phone so she could track me, other stuff too, but it's late and I'm tired...

In other words, she saw me commit to doing what it takes to repair the betrayal. But more importantly, when she confronted me and I immedaitely confessed...I broke down.

Yeah I'll say it...I cried like a baby. This big, tough sum***** bawled his eyes out, confessed...and left it to her.

She decided to keep me and here we are today...stronger than ever before.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

MountainRunner said:


> I was wondering if you had it in you to ask. To your credit, I will give you that. You've exhibited more strength than what I've observed. Let's see if you can take it to the next level, shall we? with that being said, I will answer...
> 
> Why did I cheat? I lack self esteem. I seek my validation through women. I've been diagnosed with a disorder where I feel I am a fraud and in order to shunt that feeling, I get my validation that I am "something" from the attention from women.
> 
> Did I confess? Yes and no...I wasted no time in confessing when she found out. In fact...I was relieved. I wanted out and this was it...even if it destroyed my marriage....I confessed...because I was emotionally involved with 2 women at the time (you can read my story for all the gory, sordid details).
> 
> Impact on the marriage? I thought it was over. I told her I would honor whatever she decided. She decided to keep me...provided I met her demands...which I did. I didn't sleep in our bed 2 months. I committed to NC with my APs, I gave her full access to all my email accounts, phone, computers, installed GPS on my phone so she could track me, other stuff too, but it's late and I'm tired...
> 
> In other words, she saw me commit to doing what it takes to repair the betrayal. But more importantly, when she confronted me and I immedaitely confessed...I broke down.
> 
> Yeah I'll say it...I cried like a baby. This big, tough sum***** bawled his eyes out, confessed...and left it to her.
> 
> She decided to keep me and here we are today...stronger than ever before.


I'm happy for you that you worked it out in the end and that you figured out why you did it. That is probably the best protection you have against doing it again is you know why you did it. So here is the biggie, would you have confessed on your own if she did not find out?

I think my issues are similar in that I have self esteem problems as well. But for the rest of it, I'm so damned scared of being alone and I have probably made myself a self fulfilling prophesy by doing what I did.

Thank you for sharing your story with me.


----------



## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I'm happy for you that you worked it out in the end and that you figured out why you did it. That is probably the best protection you have against doing it again is you know why you did it. So here is the biggie, would you have confessed on your own if she did not find out?
> 
> I think my issues are similar in that I have self esteem problems as well. But for the rest of it, I'm so damned scared of being alone and I have probably made myself a self fulfilling prophesy by doing what I did.
> 
> Thank you for sharing your story with me.


Be happy to answer in the morning..turning in though. You recognize that you have self esteem issues...you need to address that or you will never be happy...trust me on that. You're scared because you're weak and fearful...You go for the "easy fix" or "rush" from the attention/affection/validation from others because it feeds you.

But right now you're in a marriage that is dysfunctional and you're pointing the finger at everyone/thing other than yourself. I did the same thing for years. Look to yourself before you can hope for anything lasting and joyful.

I'm rambling now...I'm really tired. Nite all...LOL


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Night Moutain Runner. Sleep well.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> Ok a couple of pages ago you started to stop the snarky responses and start to get honest.
> 
> That's good.
> 
> We normally see the BS here - and it is so painful to work with them over days, weeks, months, as they work through anguish, pain, denial... And hopefully come out with some clarity and understanding that the person they trusted and thought was one thing was actually something very different. Frankly it's a pretty horrible process.
> 
> I see someone on the other side only now coming to terms with what they've really done. And it's pretty horrible and ugly. And very lonely and sad.
> 
> So please understand why you are getting the advise you are getting. We've seen the pain. A lot of people here have felt the pain. And you come off as callous to that personal pain.
> 
> But anyway, stay here for the fun. You can keep posting and if you can weather this you might come out with more insight and get through this.
> 
> Yes hubby seems to be in a very bad state too. I bet he is in as much pain as you. No sex for a man is VERY telling... Perhaps he assumes he had already lost you and in pain just buries himself on work. I would not be surprised by this. Your assumption that he doesn't love you and doesn't care could be spot on or it could be the exact opposite. Perhaps he is agraid any confrontation will end things and he will lose you.
> 
> In any event, most here understand that lies are toxic. I think you can see that too.
> 
> Very sad...


Thank you for that. I am here because yesterday I felt like I was hanging on a rock wall. I can't say it was because of fear of being discovered it was because I am having a really hard time sorting it out and because I lost my bandaid (the lover). I have read that when you are in love with someone and have spent a lot of time with them when there is a disconnect there is actually a physical addition as well. Not sex but pheromones and oxytocin and all of that. I think that is true and I think that messes with your head too.

I know there are people that are somewhat asexual and I think that might be my husband. Or maybe he just channels everything into work and sports and there is no energy left. Sex is more than sex it is communication and that has been missing for 15 years or maybe even more. I know things tail off after awhile but they don't get non-existent.

I feel pretty beat up by this forum right now, but I feel better too. I know very big long standing problems don't get fixed over night but you have to start somewhere.

And yes lies are toxic for everyone involved. Since being separated from my lover I have stopped crying every day and I am feeling much calmer then I have in awhile. I would think I would feel the opposite but I don't.


----------



## aine

As my grandmother used to say "oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive" and boy what a web you have woven (if this is for real)?

If you want to sort the mess out you have to do the right thing.
Dump the lover, get a lawyer to kick him out of your house
Come clean to your husband and let the chips fall where they may.
Any other way, scheming, lying, covering up, is only doing to sweep it under the rug.

You know what you have to do, but will you? That is entirely up to you.

Get yourself some counselling too.


----------



## harrybrown

If you can, go with your H to a MC.

If he will not go, go by yourself.

Write out a timeline of the A and give it to your H.

He is not a mind reader. But do decide soon what you want.

You need to go one direction. figure that out soon, before you do not have that as an option anymore.

Have you put yourself in your H's shoes?

How would you feel if he had such a long A?


----------



## JustTired

LG,

As this thread evolves and you start opening up more, you hit the nail on the head when you said you are afraid of being alone. Fear is dictating your actions (or lack there of). You still haven't brought yourself to get rid of your AP completely & you can't fathom the thought of fessing up to your husband.

I want you to know that I understand that fear of being alone. That fear plagued me & made me stay with men much longer than I should have. That same fear had me holding on to men that were complete losers (like your AP).

You just have to rip the bandaid off & get it over with. Your AP knows you don't want your husband to find anything out, that's your _weakness_. He capitalizes on your fear, hence why he holds telling your husband over your head.

The situation has gotten out of control & now it is up to you to regain that control. In all reality, you actually have the upper hand - you just have to believe it & put it into action. First off, you have to take away the leverage your AP has over you. You are going to have to take risks, even if it means your husband will find out. Tell him you are selling the house & work needs to be done to it, give him a set date to leave (like 2 weeks or something). On the actual date of when he needs to leave, change the locks & turn off all utilities. Set his stuff outside. What's he going to do? Report you to the police? He's not here legally, he's not going to do any of that. Block him from your cell phone & house phone too....he's not your problem, he has a wife he can be a burden to now!

Stop talking to his wife. I'm sure in a way you feel sorry for her but she is not your problem. Block her from your phone, you didn't marry her...he did. You don't owe her any more explanations.

If you have social media (like Facebook, etc.) disable all of your social media accounts. That way the looney wife & her illegal husband don't have a way to get a hold of you or try to contact anyone you know.

Last but not least, if it looks like things are spiraling out of control in the worst way....this is the part where telling your husband comes in. Desperate people in desperate situations are dangerous & your AP may try harder to get in touch with your husband & spill the beans. It's better if your husband hears it from you than him.

It's a crazy situation but you can get yourself out of it if you push the fear aside & enable actions. Good luck..


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> Good. So what do you think you actually want? What is your desired end state? What is the ideal you 3 years from now?
> 
> Are you married? Single? Dating? Talking and communicating and making love to your husband?
> 
> I think you need to get a simpler, clearer vision of 2 or 3 specific portraits of yourself.
> 
> That way you will see with more clarity what you have to do to get there. You may end up coming to similar conclusions as others who have posted or maybe not.
> 
> But surely you will see that you have to go down a healthier path to get to any possible "good you" of 3 years from now.
> 
> Something to consider.


In 3 years I see myself with my husband. I want to have peace in my life, I don't want to be looking over my shoulder. I want to have something productive going on, either helping him with his business or one of my own. I don't see myself dating or wanting to be single. We are planning on moving to the country and already have a piece of property and have started building. I security for both of us. I want him to be happy I want me to be happy. I want what other people with good marriages have.

My hubby's secretary who I really adore will be coming to our house to work one day a week. When I see her with her husband I'm so envious because they have such a wonderful loving marriage and they are companions to each other. She is an awesome person and so is he. They seem to put each other first in their lives. They are the most important thing to each other. I also have a best friend who has a really good marriage. It took her 4 times to get it right but she finally got a good one.

One positive thing that has happened recently is my husband is not so verbally abusive. I think it's due to my as you call it (recently acquired) snarky attitude. It has backed him off, really pissed him off, but lately I have noticed that he is less abusive and more willing to listen to me rather than shout me down. He has always told me all the things he does not like about me in a less than tactful way. I finally started giving it back to him and I guess I pushed his buttons. The upside is we are having conversations now and not one sided shouting matches. So that is a really good thing.

I have probably been overly sensitive to some of the things he has said and should have just blown it off. My mother was extremely ill for an extended period of time, and I brought her to my house and took care of her. My father was incapable of looking after her, he could barely look after himself because was quite eccentric. She fell once and hit her head and had a huge green bump on her face, and he never even noticed. He was so angry and I don't really know why, that he used to call me up and tell me he wished my car would crash into a million pieces and burn, that he wished I would have died in a plane crash, that he wished he would have let me choke to death when I was a kid. Really awful things that really crossed the line. When he died I was not sad, but I was really really I mean really mad. It was such a weird reaction to a death i thought. I talked to a councilor just briefly, someone I knew and she told me the reason I was so mad, is because I wanted to fight him and win and now I never could. I think she was right. I despised him not because of how he treated me, but because of how he didn't take care of my mother when she was so sick. How could you do that to someone you are supposed to love and who was nothing but a wonderful supportive person for all those years.

I think my Dad was mentally ill and I don't want to follow him down that path.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

anonmale22 seems like the more I post here the more things keep crawling out of the woodwork. Things I kind put in the back of my mind for a long time.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

morituri said:


> Have you thought that your husband might have had/is having an affair of his own? If that is the case, then his odd behavior (by your assessment of his powers of perception) is not odd at all. He might have used/is using your affair to cover his.


It's possible, but let's be careful putting that idea in her head. The last thing her BS will need to hear if all of this does come out is her projecting onto him that "It's all your fault and I bet you were having an affair too!"


----------



## EleGirl

TheGoodGuy said:


> It's possible, but let's be careful putting that idea in her head. The last thing her BS will need to hear if all of this does come out is her projecting onto him that "It's all your fault and I bet you were having an affair too!"


Yes, her husband does not need to be accused of something he has not done.

On the other hand, if he were having an affair, she has as much right to know as he as a right to know about her affair.

This is a man who has refused sex to his wife for years upon years. He has also spends very little time with her. Statistically, when looking at men who withhold all sex, the chance that he has been having one or more affairs for a long time is very high. I think it's about 70% or more.

What he's been doing to her, by without holding sex for so long is often considered a form of emotional abuse. It certainly is considered that when a wife withholds sex for years.

.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

JustTired said:


> LG,
> 
> 
> 
> Stop talking to his wife. I'm sure in a way you feel sorry for her but she is not your problem. Block her from your phone, you didn't marry her...he did. You don't owe her any more explanations.
> 
> If you have social media (like Facebook, etc.) disable all of your social media accounts. That way the looney wife & her illegal husband don't have a way to get a hold of you or try to contact anyone you know.
> 
> Last but not least, if it looks like things are spiraling out of control in the worst way....this is the part where telling your husband comes in. Desperate people in desperate situations are dangerous & your AP may try harder to get in touch with your husband & spill the beans. It's better if your husband hears it from you than him.
> 
> It's a crazy situation but you can get yourself out of it if you push the fear aside & enable actions. Good luck..


Thank you for your encouragement and being candid about your own situation. I just got off the phone with his wife. She has been texting me constantly for the last 24 hours. Not in a threatening way but as a cry for help. This guy is broken and that comes out more all the time. Personally I think he can't be fixed. She was on her way over there today and said she was offering him a life and a chance and if he didn't want to take it then she was done. She took the day off work and she said he was either moving in with her today or that was it. If she is not successful in getting him out, then I will offer him a plane ticket back to the UK. If he won't take it then my next call is to ICE. 

My Mom used to tell me when I was young and dating that I always brought all the little birds with broken wings home and tried to fix them, and that they could not be fixed. I'm out of the fixing business and one way or the other he is either going to live with her or he is on his way back to the UK.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> You have had some terrible trama and abuse in your past and current relationship. Now is the time to let it out - you are anon so can say what you need to. Then take it into IC and hopefully you can begin to make healthier decisions.
> 
> I suspect you are modeling the poor behaviors you have seen in your past instead of making healthy choices.


Isn't it funny how everyone else's family seems nutty to you and yours seems normal. The problem is you don't realize your family is nutty until you are an adult and sometimes not even then. I think my family was dysfunctional and you know my lover has a lot of the same personality traits that my father did, except he is not abusive.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

EleGirl said:


> Yes, her husband does not need to be accused of something he has not done.
> 
> On the other hand, if he were having an affair, she has as much right to know as he as a right to know about her affair.
> 
> This is a man who has refused sex to his wife for years upon years. He has also spends very little time with her. Statistically, when looking at men who withhold all sex, the chance that he has been having one or more affairs for a long time is very high. I think it's about 70% or more.
> 
> What he's been doing to her, by without holding sex for so long is often considered a form of emotional abuse. It certainly is considered that when a wife withholds sex for years.
> 
> .


I could be wrong I don't think he is having an affair because he doesn't act any differently then he ever did. I just think he isn't that interested. He never approaches me in a romantic way we rarely even kiss each other or touch in a non-romantic way. I married my best friend and he married his maybe there just isn't any sexual chemistry between us. He has also had performance issues the few times we tried. Most men when they don't get sex are either all over you in a seductive sort of way or they are mad at you and he is neither. Just indifferent. He jokes about it from time to time but it's never serious and he never, never initiates it. He doesn't seem to have a seductive bone in his body. I just gave up on it. Maybe he just isn't attracted to me for whatever reason. Haha this is so strange too, but his guilty pleasure is chick flix. So somewhere there has to be some romance in his soul but not aimed at me.


----------



## Blondilocks

So you have posted on two other message boards as the new wife and now posting on this board as the other woman? How about getting some therapy to figure out who you really are. They'll also be able to assist you in adapting to your new single life.

So much energy put into deceiving not only your husband but, total strangers on the internet.:wtf:


----------



## Maricha75

LG, you said you have been married 25 years, right? If you don't mind my asking, how old are you? And how old is your husband?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

harrybrown said:


> If you can, go with your H to a MC.
> 
> If he will not go, go by yourself.
> 
> Write out a timeline of the A and give it to your H.
> 
> He is not a mind reader. But do decide soon what you want.
> 
> You need to go one direction. figure that out soon, before you do not have that as an option anymore.
> 
> Have you put yourself in your H's shoes?
> 
> How would you feel if he had such a long A?


I have already spoken with him about me going to counseling. He seemed surprised and then said is that something you think you really want to do. I said yes if I can't resolve the anxiety and depression myself it's something I need to do. So maybe if I do, I can get him to go with me.

Just getting that jerk out of my life and all of this has already helped. Everyone has said I show no remorse but this morning I woke up with plenty of it. When I look at him now I feel so sad and guilty about what I have done. Before I justified what I did because I tried so hard to get him to see what was happening and how I was feeling and he just didn't. I should have maybe tried separating or forcing the marriage counseling then but I didn't. Instead I found someone who made me feel good about myself and who also is a liar.
I think Mountain Runner was right when he said I was looking for validation. I needed to feel like I was desirable and lovable and I needed company.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 said:


> LG, you said you have been married 25 years, right? If you don't mind my asking, how old are you? And how old is your husband?


I'm 53 and he is 59.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Blondilocks said:


> So you have posted on two other message boards as the new wife and now posting on this board as the other woman? How about getting some therapy to figure out who you really are. They'll also be able to assist you in adapting to your new single life.
> 
> So much energy put into deceiving not only your husband but, total strangers on the internet.:wtf:


Blondilocks I did that because I know people who have affairs are pariahs in this society. I wanted a look at the situation as a whole and then as it related to me in particular. And I wasn't wrong. Read the posts. Especially the earlier ones. First of all it's such a crazy situation no one even believed me. Someone thought I was here just to entrap abusive posters and get them banned. I guess people do that but how crazy is that. I don't even know them or this site so why would I want to get them banned.

Maybe the logic makes absolutely no sense to you but it did to me at the time. I was freaking out and I wanted some unbiased information that was not focused on adultery. I would not have gotten that if I posted as myself. I'm kind of an information hound and when I'm upset about anything sometimes the only way I can calm myself is to try and get more information. So I wanted the opinion of a lot of people really fast who were not personally involved. That may not change you opinion but I hope it answers your question.


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I'm 53 and he is 59.


And he has been this way your entire marriage? Not wanting sex very often in the beginning and now, not at all... has he seen his doctor about that? I ask because my husband will be the same age yours was when you married. A few years ago, I convinced him to talk to his doctor about the problem... lack of desire, problems performing, etc. In his case, his testosterone was low. It's in normal range now, because of injections. It may not be that, but if it has never been checked, you might want to suggest it now.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 said:


> And he has been this way your entire marriage? Not wanting sex very often in the beginning and now, not at all... has he seen his doctor about that? I ask because my husband will be the same age yours was when you married. A few years ago, I convinced him to talk to his doctor about the problem... lack of desire, problems performing, etc. In his case, his testosterone was low. It's in normal range now, because of injections. It may not be that, but if it has never been checked, you might want to suggest it now.


Good thought but he has always been that way since we got married. Before we got married it was pretty good but after not so much. The only time it was good was when we went on a trip to Europe. Maybe because he was away from work and all the pressures.

He recently had his testosterone levels checked and his doctor said they were within the normal ranges. I've also heard that with men that can vary a lot, so normal for who? Maybe they are low for him but not clinically low enough to prescribe hormones.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 I forgot to add he is in extremely good shape. He works out a lot, does not smoke or drink. Nothing like that. He is competitive with men who are 20 years younger than him in sports so I don't think it's physical. We eat well most of the time and we take care of ourselves. Neither of us drink or smoke.


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Blondilocks I did that because I know people who have affairs are pariahs in this society. I wanted a look at the situation as a whole and then as it related to me in particular. And I wasn't wrong. Read the posts. Especially the earlier ones. First of all it's such a crazy situation no one even believed me. Someone thought I was here just to entrap abusive posters and get them banned. I guess people do that but how crazy is that. I don't even know them or this site so why would I want to get them banned.
> 
> Maybe the logic makes absolutely no sense to you but it did to me at the time. I was freaking out and I wanted some unbiased information that was not focused on adultery. I would not have gotten that if I posted as myself. I'm kind of an information hound and when I'm upset about anything sometimes the only way I can calm myself is to try and get more information. So I wanted the opinion of a lot of people really fast who were not personally involved. That may not change you opinion but I hope it answers your question.


LG, I was the one who suggested that possibility regarding trapping posters. And, really, in the beginning it truly seemed that way, based on how you responded. 

But I understand Blondilocks' question. You posted elsewhere as the wife, but here as the cheater. Why did you change your identity to cheater, here, if you know how people react to cheaters? That's what really makes no sense. 

As for the way you were received in the beginning, the posters were reacting to t game e tone in your posts. You appeared to have no remorse... and I think some are still questioning if you still maintain that initial stance of not telling your husband.


----------



## zillard

...or he's in the closet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 said:


> LG, I was the one who suggested that possibility regarding trapping posters. And, really, in the beginning it truly seemed that way, based on how you responded.
> 
> But I understand Blondilocks' question. You posted elsewhere as the wife, but here as the cheater. Why did you change your identity to cheater, here, if you know how people react to cheaters? That's what really makes no sense.
> 
> As for the way you were received in the beginning, the posters were reacting to t game e tone in your posts. You appeared to have no remorse... and I think some are still questioning if you still maintain that initial stance of not telling your husband.


I have plenty of remorse probably more today than yesterday because all of this is really starting to sink in and some of that has to do with talking to all of you. I think I explained why I did it the way I did in response to Blondilocks. 

In my mind I had 2 problems to deal with. My OM and the green card marriage, and if he really still loved me. At that point I still wanted to hang on to him. 

The second part was me. Why did I want to hang onto him. So I decided I should just post as myself and maybe get some help figuring out me and why I would try and hang onto something like that. Hard as it has been, I did get that help. I need a lot more probably beyond what I can get here, but everyone has to start somewhere.

If I came off as not being remorseful or callous it's because of the way some of the posters were coming at me was so aggressive and judgmental. That may relate to my own standards because I try not to be judgmental with people. I want to help them when they need it, but I don't feel like I know everything about their lives certainly not enough to judge them as a whole person. People are complicated and not fully represented by just one part of their lives. Yes I can maybe judge the situation but not the person. 

The attacks were very personal by some people such as calling me a tramp, saying I should be a cat lady, and a lot of things I can't remember since there have been so many posts. Did that make me defensive, yes, and I think it would make you or most anyone feel defensive too.

In fairness to the people that said those things, maybe it was in part because the story was really so unbelievable. I have to admit it's just really crazy and I was really crazy for living that lie.


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I have plenty of remorse probably more today than yesterday because all of this is really starting to sink in and some of that has to do with talking to all of you. I think I explained why I did it the way I did in response to Blondilocks.
> 
> In my mind I had 2 problems to deal with. My OM and the green card marriage, and if he really still loved me. At that point I still wanted to hang on to him.
> 
> The second part was me. Why did I want to hang onto him. So I decided I should just post as myself and maybe get some help figuring out me and why I would try and hang onto something like that. Hard as it has been, I did get that help. I need a lot more probably beyond what I can get here, but everyone has to start somewhere.
> 
> If I came off as not being remorseful or callous it's because of the way some of the posters were coming at me was so aggressive and judgmental. That may relate to my own standards because I try not to be judgmental with people. I want to help them when they need it, but I don't feel like I know everything about their lives certainly not enough to judge them as a whole person. People are complicated and not fully represented by just one part of their lives. Yes I can maybe judge the situation but not the person.
> 
> The attacks were very personal by some people such as calling me a tramp, saying I should be a cat lady, and a lot of things I can't remember since there have been so many posts. Did that make me defensive, yes, and I think it would make you or most anyone feel defensive too.
> 
> In fairness to the people that said those things, maybe it was in part because the story was really so unbelievable. I have to admit it's just really crazy and I was really crazy for living that lie.


Yes, you explained it to Blondilocks. And I am sure it makes sense to you why you would post as one in one forum and another in this one. But to the rest of us... it just made it seem that much more unlikely, ya know? And yes, I have seen the remorse as you have posted more. But it wasn't there in the beginning. 

Until you fully own your actions, like telling your husband the truth, many are going to assume you are just playing us, and your husband.

One more thing... I think this thread would be better in CWI (Coping With Infidelity).


----------



## Maricha75

zillard said:


> ...or he's in the closet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Equally valid.


----------



## bandit.45

I can only come up with a few reasons why a healthy male would not want to have sex with his wife....

1) LonelyGirl has some weight issues and makes a walrus look appealing...

2) Hubby got his nuts pinched in a train station turnstile and is now singing castrato...

3) Hubby is cheating and has been since the early days of their marriage...

4) LonelyGirl had other affairs early on that she is not telling us about... hubby found out, and was so emasculated he no longer wanted her sexually...

5) LonelyGirl did something to her hubby early on in the marriage that was so heinous that he will have nothing to do with her sexually...

6) Hubby is as fat as Harry Potter's mean uncle and cannot find his willy tucked inside the fat rolls, much less get it up if he did locate it...

7) Hubby suffers from depression which has never been diagnosed...

8) The marriage was arranged and hubby was never attracted to LonelyGirl in the first place...

9) He's a flamer....


So LonelyGirl...which is it?


----------



## zillard

Well, he is in good shape, likes chick flicks, and is her best friend. 

I'm voting #9
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheGoodGuy

It's sounding more plausible, along with #3 maybe? Although, again, all we're hearing is the possible rewritten history of WW, so who knows


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> I can only come up with a few reasons why a healthy male would not want to have sex with his wife....
> 
> 1) LonelyGirl has some weight issues and makes a walrus look appealing...
> 
> 2) Hubby got his nuts pinched in a train station turnstile and is now singing castrato...
> 
> 3) Hubby is cheating and has been since the early days of their marriage...
> 
> 4) LonelyGirl had other affairs early on that she is not telling us about... hubby found out, and was so emasculated he no longer wanted her sexually...
> 
> 5) LonelyGirl did something to her hubby early on in the marriage that was so heinous that he will have nothing to do with her sexually...
> 
> 6) Hubby is as fat as Harry Potter's mean uncle and cannot find his willy tucked inside the fat rolls, much less get it up if he did locate it...
> 
> 7) Hubby suffers from depression which has never been diagnosed...
> 
> 8) The marriage was arranged and hubby was never attracted to LonelyGirl in the first place...
> 
> 9) He's a flamer....
> 
> 10) Bandit.45 is a complete a s s h o l e.
> 
> 
> So LonelyGirl...which is it?


I'll vote for number 10. You really think this is funny. You **cking troll. Why don't you take Gus the other **cking troll and go have a flaming homosexual affair, and let us know who gets on top. I bet it won't be you.>:surprise::frown2:


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> Well, he is in good shape, likes chick flicks, and is her best friend.
> 
> I'm voting #9
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



And Zillard maybe you can make it a threesome and live out your closet fantasies!!!!:surprise:


----------



## bandit.45

Gus and I broke up last year. He was a good sport though....


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

TheGoodGuy said:


> It's sounding more plausible, along with #3 maybe? Although, again, all we're hearing is the possible rewritten history of WW, so who knows


Hey GoodGuy join in maybe you can film it. Then you can put it on here for all your self-righteous buddies and they can bash homosexuals along with anything that doesn't fit into your neat little box of how it's all supposed to be.:butterfly:


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I'll vote for number 10. You really think this is funny. You **cking troll. Why don't you take Gus the other **cking troll and go have a flaming homosexual affair, and let us know who gets on top. I bet it won't be you.>:surprise::frown2:


The point bandit was making, even if it DID pi$$ you off, is that it is not NORMAL for a man to not want sex with his wife unless she did something horrendous, he did something horrendous, he's having an affair, he's gained a lot of weight (not always a given there, though), there is some underlying medical condition... or he's gay, and she is his beard. He's not trolling you on this. He's trying to get you to take action, ask why he has not been sexually attracted to you, since nearly the beginning.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> Gus and I broke up last year. He was a good sport though....


He probably couldn't stand looking at your UGLY A S S anymore.:surprise:


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Sorry I didn't mean to offend you. Sometimes a little levity helps.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Maricha75 said:


> The point bandit was making, even if it DID pi$$ you off, is that it is not NORMAL for a man to not want sex with his wife unless she did something horrendous, he did something horrendous, he's having an affair, he's gained a lot of weight (not always a given there, though), there is some underlying medical condition... or he's gay, and she is his beard. He's not trolling you on this. He's trying to get you to take action, ask why he has not been sexually attracted to you, since nearly the beginning.


OMG woman do you really believe that. Stop defending these arrogant idiots. If you people can't be serious and you think those are the only realms of possibility then maybe you should not be setting yourselves up as the pillars that you seem to think you all are. Arrogance and stupidity never go together. Bad combination. Never works. Period. End of story!!


----------



## bandit.45

Maricha75 said:


> The point bandit was making, even if it DID pi$$ you off, is that it is not NORMAL for a man to not want sex with his wife unless she did something horrendous, he did something horrendous, he's having an affair, he's gained a lot of weight (not always a given there, though), there is some underlying medical condition... or he's gay, and she is his beard. He's not trolling you on this. He's trying to get you to take action, ask why he has not been sexually attracted to you, since nearly the beginning.


A woman who gets it. Thanks M.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Well you did offend me. God you are a smart a s s. You think that's helpful. You just hang around here for laughs or what.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> A woman who gets it. Thanks M.


Yeah too bad you don't.


----------



## bandit.45

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> He probably couldn't stand looking at your UGLY A S S anymore.:surprise:


Well this is true. I'm one ugly mo fo. 


But I can still get laid. 


Why can't your husband? Answer the question. Because I don't believe for one minute that your husband would starve you for sex for no damn good reason for 10 years and you not have one single inkling as to why... 

Normal men have sex. As much as they can get. 

Why? Why did he treat you that way? Why did your husband act against all basic biological human male drives and not want to have sex with you? Men are born to fvck. Either with women or other dudes if that's the way they roll. So what the hell is his problem? When did this neglectful behavior start? 

Answer the question.


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Well you did offend me.


Why is the possibility being pointed out so offensive?


----------



## ConanHub

Good lord! Your life is one big f'ing mess because you are behaving like an idiot and you are criticizing posters that have it WAY more together than you?

Tell your H that another man has been probing your birth canal for years or get lost.

You are a straight up coward to "bravely" confront people on an anonymous forum, who have way more class than a remorseless cheater, instead of facing up to your truly skanky behavior towards your husband.

Put up or shut up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> OMG woman do you really believe that. Stop defending these arrogant idiots. If you people can't be serious and you think those are the only realms of possibility then maybe you should not be setting yourselves up as the pillars that you seem to think you all are. Arrogance and stupidity never go together. Bad combination. Never works. Period. End of story!!


I have been posting here for a few years. I am USED to bandit. Doesn't mean we always agree, but I understand (most of the time) what he's saying. 

And, honestly, the only thing left out was asexuality. So, asexual, having an affair of his own, never was really attracted to you, he did somethjng, you did sonething, one of you gained (or possibly lost, in some cases) a lot of weight, or there is a medical or psychological reason for his perceived apathy when it comes to a sexual relationship. And, YES, that is EXACTLY what bandit was trying to do. Get you to TALK to your husband, rather than speculate here, on a damn forum!

Talk to the man. Which is really what we have been saying since yesterday, though it was about the other problem.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> Well this is true. I'm one ugly mo fo.
> 
> 
> But I can still get laid.
> 
> 
> Why can't your husband? Answer the question. Because I don't believe for one minute that your husband would starve you for sex for no damn good reason for 10 years and you not have one single inkling as to why...
> 
> Normal men have sex. As much as they can get.
> 
> Why? Why did he treat you that way? Why did your husband act against all basic biological human male drives and not want to have sex with you? Men are born to fvck. Either with women or other dudes if that's the way they roll. So what the hell is his problem? When did this neglectful behavior start?
> 
> Answer the question.


I think he has performance issues and I think he has a low sex drive.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

ConanHub said:


> Good lord! Your life is one big f'ing mess because you are behaving like an idiot and you are criticizing posters that have it WAY more together than you?
> 
> Tell your H that another man has been probing your birth canal for years or get lost.
> 
> You are a straight up coward to "bravely" confront people on an anonymous forum, who have way more class than a remorseless cheater, instead of facing up to your truly skanky behavior towards your husband.
> 
> Put up or shut up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get over it. I'm treating you all the same way you treat me. You don't know me so stop pretending you do. Don't assume anything it always comes back to bite you on the a s s.


----------



## bandit.45

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I think he has performance issues and I think he has a low sex drive.


Okay....I see a crack. 

Why does he have performance issues? Body image? Obesity? Feelings of inadequacy? Did you point to his little man and giggle? What?


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I think he has performance issues and I think he has a low sex drive.


The key word there is THINK. You THINK this is the problem... btw, that would be physical and/or psychological, as has been suggested above... But you THINK these are the problems. You don't know, for certain. Which is why we said TALK to him.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

zillard said:


> Why is the possibility being pointed out so offensive?


Because of the way it was pointed out. It's obvious you got a boy's club going here. I don't think it's funny, it's not helpful and it's mean spirited.


----------



## zillard

Maricha75 said:


> The key word there is THINK. You THINK this is the problem... btw, that would be physical and/or psychological, as has been suggested above... But you THINK these are the problems. You don't know, for certain. Which is why we said TALK to him.


Assumption


----------



## zillard

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Because of the way it was pointed out. It's obvious you got a boy's club going here. I don't think it's funny, it's not helpful and it's mean spirited.


I was completely genuine when I suggested it. 

It DOES happen. I've seen it happen.


----------



## bandit.45

Okay LonleyGirl, let's all stay on track here. I think we are on to something. 

Please tell us the story of how you and hubby met, what your relationship was like before and after the wedding and when did he start being neglectful and abusive? Just give us something to work with here.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> I can only come up with a few reasons why a healthy male would not want to have sex with his wife....
> 
> 1) LonelyGirl has some weight issues and makes a walrus look appealing...
> 
> 2) Hubby got his nuts pinched in a train station turnstile and is now singing castrato...
> 
> 3) Hubby is cheating and has been since the early days of their marriage...
> 
> 4) LonelyGirl had other affairs early on that she is not telling us about... hubby found out, and was so emasculated he no longer wanted her sexually...
> 
> 5) LonelyGirl did something to her hubby early on in the marriage that was so heinous that he will have nothing to do with her sexually...
> 
> 6) Hubby is as fat as Harry Potter's mean uncle and cannot find his willy tucked inside the fat rolls, much less get it up if he did locate it...
> 
> 7) Hubby suffers from depression which has never been diagnosed...
> 
> 8) The marriage was arranged and hubby was never attracted to LonelyGirl in the first place...
> 
> 9) He's a flamer....
> 
> 
> So LonelyGirl...which is it?


You know what you can say anything you want about me. You can call me a tramp you can call me a w h o r e and you can use all those nasty little abbreviations for the names I wrote above. You can call me a catwoman you can say I have no remorse anything you want about me. Screw you if you think you can make fun of my husband. Maybe he's got low T or psychological issues or whatever but he is an innocent party to all of this, and if you think I'm going to put up with that from you think again. As far as your speculations you and your buds might find it hilarious but it's not even close. You want to do stand up comedy go somewhere else and do it. And don't quit you day job.


----------



## zillard

I would be making fun of your husband... if I was homophobic. 

I'm not. There's nothing wrong with gay men. If it turned out that he is one, I would just think it sad that he was in the closet for so long.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> Okay LonleyGirl, let's all stay on track here. I think we are on to something.
> 
> Please tell us the story of how you and hubby met, what your relationship was like before and after the wedding and when did he start being neglectful and abusive? Just give us something to work with here.


We met at work. He was my assigned mentor in our career. I left the company. We remained friends and he continued to pursue me. We were friends for maybe 4 years before it became romantic. We were engaged for 1 year. Had a big family wedding. Nice honeymoon. Started our life together and then I realized that he was never home. Always working (not saying he was working) I would meet him for dinner so he was where he said he was. Then it was scuba diving, karate, mountain biking, golf, you name it. He was gone all the time.

Sex was good for the first year then dwindled off. I was angry because he was never home and didn't want to do anything I wanted to do with him. Typical woman's reaction I guess. He could be very critical of me. Probably undermined my self confidence a bit. I'm not really strong that way. I wanted kids at first, but he did not. So I didn't want to force that on him. We never had any. The years passed, and here we are. Pretty typical I think.


----------



## EleGirl

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> OMG woman do you really believe that. Stop defending these arrogant idiots. If you people can't be serious and you think those are the only realms of possibility then maybe you should not be setting yourselves up as the pillars that you seem to think you all are. Arrogance and stupidity never go together. Bad combination. Never works. Period. End of story!!


Nope, Maricha75 and the others are not kidding. We've seen this, and other versions of it here.

There is a reason why your husband has shunned you sexually for most of your marriage. Don't you think it's about time you found out why?

A sexless marriage is one in which there is sex 10 or fewer times a year. Men choose to make their marriages sexless at about the same rate that women do. Here is a book that might help you think this through.


Why Men Stop Having Sex: Men, the Phenomenon of Sexless Relationships, and What You Can Do About It


----------



## EleGirl

bandit.45 said:


> A woman who gets it. Thanks M.


I get it and agree.

There are other possibilities. But the ones you listed are high on the list.


----------



## EleGirl

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I think he has performance issues and I think he has a low sex drive.


I *was* married to a guy who seemed to have those issues for 7 years. It turned out that he had no problem performing or finding his sex drive with other women... lots of them.


----------



## Lostinthought61

LG, 
i am guessing if you could, you would wish this all away (boyfriend leave and goes back home, crazy green card wife gone and your life with your husband back to normal...but i suspect on some level you wouldn't, no matter how crazy your life is, no matter how insane it has been juggling all of this for you, secretly you enjoy it on some level, it is the rush that you felt with your boy toy when things were great and new with him...on some level you need that rush in your life, its almost an addiction. you may very well deny it but if you think deep and hard you can see if for yourself. I don't believe you could go back to a normal life, maybe at first but sooner or later you will miss the adrenaline rush, and you will crave it.


----------



## EleGirl

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Sex was good for the first year then dwindled off. I was angry because he was never home and didn't want to do anything I wanted to do with him. Typical woman's reaction I guess. He could be very critical of me. Probably undermined my self confidence a bit. I'm not really strong that way. I wanted kids at first, but he did not. So I didn't want to force that on him. We never had any. The years passed, and here we are. Pretty typical I think.


How many hours a day is your husband working and doing all his activities?


----------



## bandit.45

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> We met at work. He was my assigned mentor in our career. I left the company. We remained friends and he continued to pursue me. We were friends for maybe 4 years before it became romantic. We were engaged for 1 year. Had a big family wedding. Nice honeymoon. Started our life together and then I realized that he was never home. Always working (not saying he was working) I would meet him for dinner so he was where he said he was. Then it was scuba diving, karate, mountain biking, golf, you name it. He was gone all the time.
> 
> Sex was good for the first year then dwindled off. I was angry because he was never home and didn't want to do anything I wanted to do with him. Typical woman's reaction I guess. He could be very critical of me. Probably undermined my self confidence a bit. I'm not really strong that way. I wanted kids at first, but he did not. So I didn't want to force that on him. We never had any. The years passed, and here we are. Pretty typical I think.


No. Not typical. Sounds like a guy who never wanted to grow up. 

What was he critical about?

Did his not giving you children make you angry? Is there resentment there for that?


----------



## bandit.45

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> You know what you can say anything you want about me. You can call me a tramp you can call me a w h o r e and you can use all those nasty little abbreviations for the names I wrote above. You can call me a catwoman you can say I have no remorse anything you want about me. Screw you if you think you can make fun of my husband. Maybe he's got low T or psychological issues or whatever but he is an innocent party to all of this, and if you think I'm going to put up with that from you think again. As far as your speculations you and your buds might find it hilarious but it's not even close. You want to do stand up comedy go somewhere else and do it. And don't quit you day job.


That rankled you. Good. I'm glad to see you stick up for him. It means you are not as stone cold as I first thought. 

But I don't see a guy who likes to do all this physical adventure stuff you talk about as having low T. 

What is his career?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> Have to admit I liked seeing you run to hubby's defense here. Maybe there's hope.
> 
> But he needs to come clean too. This isn't normal.
> 
> Are you stunningly beautiful? Is there something about you two where he feels like you were out of his league?


I don't know that he feels like he is out of my league. He has never complimented my appearance a lot, but I've had quite a few people men and women tell me I'm very pretty or beautiful. If someone does not know me they usually guess my age to be 15 or 20 years younger than I really am. I took my Dad to a plastic surgeon once for some skin cancer and the Doctor asked me if I was his grand daughter.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> That rankled you. Good. I'm glad to see you stick up for him. It means you are not as stone cold as I first thought.
> 
> But I don't see a guy who likes to do all this physical adventure stuff you talk about as having low T.
> 
> What is his career?


He was tested and he does not have Low T. He is a home builder. I was a stock broker. I don't do that now. Mostly graphic design and copy writing.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> No. Not typical. Sounds like a guy who never wanted to grow up.
> 
> What was he critical about?
> 
> Did his not giving you children make you angry? Is there resentment there for that?


He was mostly critical about things like how I wore my hair, or my make-up, or how I dressed. Said I dressed to conservatively. Or he would say I was too messy (which I am, sorry) just things like that.

I can't say it really made me angry about the kid thing. I regret not having them now. Would have been nice to have family. I see women out with their daughters and I feel envious sometimes. I used to feel a lot of resentment in years past but for some reason I don't really feel that way now.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

EleGirl said:


> How many hours a day is your husband working and doing all his activities?


Many times he would be gone 14 hours a day. Plus weekend activities. Lately the 14 hour a day thing has been maybe three times a week and of course weekends. When he is home he is on the phone much of the time or texting.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Xenote said:


> LG,
> i am guessing if you could, you would wish this all away (boyfriend leave and goes back home, crazy green card wife gone and your life with your husband back to normal...but i suspect on some level you wouldn't, no matter how crazy your life is, no matter how insane it has been juggling all of this for you, secretly you enjoy it on some level, it is the rush that you felt with your boy toy when things were great and new with him...on some level you need that rush in your life, its almost an addiction. you may very well deny it but if you think deep and hard you can see if for yourself. I don't believe you could go back to a normal life, maybe at first but sooner or later you will miss the adrenaline rush, and you will crave it.


I have been accused of being a drama queen. I'm pretty emotionally driven which is probably not a good thing. I have a vivid imagination which gets me in a lot of trouble because it causes me to be anxious sometimes. Maybe I should try skydiving except I'm actually a coward when it comes to that kind of stuff. Maybe I could write a book and create some fictional drama and occupy my imagination all at the same time. I do think I'm a bit eccentric. And I'm actually not kidding about the book part might be a good outlet.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> The reason I ask is you mention performance issues. That can happen if he is intimidated - and frankly beautiful women are often really intimidating to a lot of guys. Depending on your reaction to his performance it could emasculate a guy really quickly... You'ld be surprised how hard that can be to recover from. Is this a possibility? If so, time would only make the performance anxiety worse as it is build up in his head. Just a thought


I asked him if it was me and he said no it was him. I have never said anything about it to him except maybe a comment like maybe you are tired or something like that. I know that performance issues can lead to some pretty bad internal head talk for a lot of guys.

I was thinking about talking to him about the little blue pill because maybe it would break that cycle and help him get his confidence back. Sadly if we were to sleep together tonight I would feel like I was with a stranger. I would feel really nervous because I think it's been so long we have to rebuild our intimacy.


----------



## EleGirl

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Many times he would be gone 14 hours a day. Plus weekend activities. Lately the 14 hour a day thing has been maybe three times a week and of course weekends. When he is home he is on the phone much of the time or texting.


If I recall, you said that your father was abusive, physically and emotionally.

And you say that your husband is not. I disagree. Your husband is emotionally abusive.

You say that sometimes he belittles you, puts your down. That's abuse.

He's come most of the time. He has starved you both for physical and emotional intimacy. IMHO, at the level you describe it can be considered abuse.

I what I see in you is something similar that happened to me.

When you get out of a physically abusive situation, its easy to think that making sure that you don't end up in another physically abusive situation is your goal. If you did this you hit the jack pot.

So what happened? You focused on the physical abuse. So you married a guy who is not physically abusive. And you have completely ignored that he's emotionally abusive. Not only that you praise him for being a wonderful husband.

I did that too. My first husband was physically and emotionally abusive. So I divorced him and later remarried a guy who was definitely not physically abusive. He never raised a hand or his voice to me. His form of abuse is much more subtle, harder to detect. But it's there. He was emotionally abusive and it took me time to realize this.

I'm not justifying your affair. Honestly if you felt that abandoned and alone, you should have divorced him and moved on.

However, I have read that sometimes an affair is like the steam release valve on a pressure cooker. See, once you started the affair, your husband did not have to meet your needs anymore. It took the pressure off him. So he was off the hook. And you had your needs met.

Well the pressure cooker just blew up. Now you are going to have to deal with the reality. You cheated. And he does not want to really have a close relationship with you. You serve him some purpose.. some here have suggested the types of purpose it could be.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

EleGirl said:


> If I recall, you said that your father was abusive, physically and emotionally.
> 
> And you say that your husband is not. I disagree. Your husband is emotionally abusive.
> 
> You say that sometimes he belittles you, puts your down. That's abuse.
> 
> He's come most of the time. He has starved you both for physical and emotional intimacy. IMHO, at the level you describe it can be considered abuse.
> 
> I what I see in you is something similar that happened to me.
> 
> When you get out of a physically abusive situation, its easy to think that making sure that you don't end up in another physically abusive situation is your goal. If you did this you hit the jack pot.
> 
> So what happened? You focused on the physical abuse. So you married a guy who is not physically abusive. And you have completely ignored that he's emotionally abusive. Not only that you praise him for being a wonderful husband.
> 
> I did that too. My first husband was physically and emotionally abusive. So I divorced him and later remarried a guy who was definitely not physically abusive. He never raised a hand or his voice to me. His form of abuse is much more subtle, harder to detect. But it's there. He was emotionally abusive and it took me time to realize this.
> 
> I'm not justifying your affair. Honestly if you felt that abandoned and alone, you should have divorced him and moved on.
> 
> However, I have read that sometimes an affair is like the steam release valve on a pressure cooker. See, once you started the affair, your husband did not have to meet your needs anymore. It took the pressure off him. So he was off the hook. And you had your needs met.
> 
> Well the pressure cooker just blew up. Now you are going to have to deal with the reality. You cheated. And he does not want to really have a close relationship with you. You serve him some purpose.. some here have suggested the types of purpose it could be.


I think that is very insightful especially about the part that I could get my needs met and he was off the hook and no one would find out and no one would be hurt by it and I would have what I needed. We have all been focusing on the sex part of it and yet that really wasn't all of it, the emotional part was huge. The OM was very demonstrative. It was nice to have someone tell me 2 or 3 times a day that he loved me, and go places with me, and just enjoy each others company, and talk, talk, talk.

If you don't mind me asking can you elaborate on what you mean by subtle abuse.

I actually did write in one of my posts that I should have divorced or separated instead of doing what I did.


----------



## EleGirl

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I think that is very insightful especially about the part that I could get my needs met and he was off the hook and no one would find out and no one would be hurt by it and I would have what I needed. We have all been focusing on the sex part of it and yet that really wasn't all of it, the emotional part was huge. The OM was very demonstrative. It was nice to have someone tell me 2 or 3 times a day that he loved me, and go places with me, and just enjoy each others company, and talk, talk, talk.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking can you elaborate on what you mean by subtle abuse.
> 
> I actually did write in one of my posts that I should have divorced or separated instead of doing what I did.


Perhaps if you took your husband's good qualities and the OM's good qualities (the emotional ones that you like), and made one man out of them you would have the man who fills all your needs. Neither one of them do it alone.

You might want to read the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. I think it would give you some insight.



LonelyGirl1963 said:


> If you don't mind me asking can you elaborate on what you mean by subtle abuse.


If your husband were to slug you in the face, I'm pretty sure that you would have no problem identifying that as physical abuse, domestic violence. Nothing subtle here.

If he yelled and put you down all day long, demeaning you verbally. That’s clearly abuse. Nothing subtle here.


But if he is a healthy man (not low T) but rejects you sexually... that much more subtle. It's hard to tell his motivation. I mean should you feel sorry for him because he has no sex drive? Or should you be angry at him for using passive aggressive ploys to punish you for wrongs that he thinks you have done? See that's not a clear as if he just walked up, told you he was pissed and why. Then punched you in the face. At least the latter is honest. (Though violent).

You say that he put you down for the way you wear your hair and how you dress. I know how that works on a person's head. My ex use to do that. Just little tiny jabs that on the surface are superficial. But when done enough they are a death of your self-esteem by a thousand little tiny cuts. But it's far more subtle then other kinds of emotional abuse.

Keep in mind that few abusers do it constantly. Look up the "cycle of abuse". See if you recognize that pattern.

Abuse is all about controlling the other person. Break a person’s feelings of self-worth and they are easy to control. By doing this your husband has a wife how filled some roll he needs filled and can do whatever he wants.

So what is it that he wants with a wife who he spends very little time with?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

EleGirl said:


> Perhaps if you took your husband's good qualities and the OM's good qualities (the emotional ones that you like), and made one man out of them you would have the man who fills all your needs. Neither one of them do it alone.
> 
> You might want to read the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. I think it would give you some insight.
> 
> 
> 
> If your husband were to slug you in the face, I'm pretty sure that you would have no problem identifying that as physical abuse, domestic violence. Nothing subtle here.
> 
> If he yelled and put you down all day long, demeaning you verbally. That’s clearly abuse. Nothing subtle here.
> 
> 
> But if he is a healthy man (not low T) but rejects you sexually... that much more subtle. It's hard to tell his motivation. I mean should you feel sorry for him because he has no sex drive? Or should you be angry at him for using passive aggressive ploys to punish you for wrongs that he thinks you have done? See that's not a clear as if he just walked up, told you he was pissed and why. Then punched you in the face. At least the latter is honest. (Though violent).
> 
> You say that he put you down for the way you wear your hair and how you dress. I know how that works on a person's head. My ex use to do that. Just little tiny jabs that on the surface are superficial. But when done enough they are a death of your self-esteem by a thousand little tiny cuts. But it's far more subtle then other kinds of emotional abuse.
> 
> Keep in mind that few abusers do it constantly. Look up the "cycle of abuse". See if you recognize that pattern.
> 
> Abuse is all about controlling the other person. Break a person’s feelings of self-worth and they are easy to control. By doing this your husband has a wife how filled some roll he needs filled and can do whatever he wants.
> 
> So what is it that he wants with a wife who he spends very little time with?


I don't know about the affair part but for the rest of it, it sounds like you have walked in my shoes. My best friend actually said the same thing, she said my husband was verbally abusive. She totally dislikes him. I was talking to her on the phone the other day and we were talking about the past(we have been friends since we were 14) and I said I used to pray you would find someone, this was after her 3rd divorce, and you did. You really have a great guy, and she said I prayed for the same for you and I'm sorry you didn't get the guy who would love you to death, and be the kind of person you need in your life. I was kind of shocked because she usually doesn't say things like that. I also have other friends who have said the say things. I used to work with him and I finally left because at company meetings he used to belittle me so much in front of our employees. His secretary told me one day I just can't believe the way he talks to you in front of other people.

His sister is exactly the same way, and his Dad was also that way in his younger days. Maybe it's a learned behavior in his case.

I have had lots and lots of conversations with him about his tone and what he says and the fact that he has done it in front of others. It's not only hurtful but it makes others uncomfortable too.

I know a couple of brothers (we are friends with the entire family) and they said to me one time, we are so happy we got to have lunch with you and get to know you better (H wasn't there) because he never shuts up long enough for you to say anything.


----------



## lovelyblue

LonelyGirl1963

I don't agree with cheating but I have a few questions for you.

1. Have you ever got treatment to help you heal from the abuse you suffered as a child?
2. I understand not wanting to be alone..But after 5, 10, 15yrs of seeing that your husband wouldn't change why not leave?

Did you not think that you deserved to be in a loving relationship? Did you not think that you deserved to live your dreams of being a mom and having a career?..Why did/do you accept your husband way of living?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

lovelyblue said:


> LonelyGirl1963
> 
> I don't agree with cheating but I have a few questions for you.
> 
> 1. Have you ever got treatment to help you heal from the abuse you suffered as a child?
> 2. I understand not wanting to be alone..But after 5, 10, 15yrs of seeing that your husband wouldn't change why not leave?
> 
> Did you not think that you deserved to be in a loving relationship? Did you not think that you deserved to live your dreams of being a mom and having a career?..Why did/do you accept your husband way of living?


Those are all good questions. No I never received treatment and I wished I would have. My life might have been a lot different.

As far as why I stayed I guess I was more afraid of being alone than I was of not realizing my dreams and a loving relationship.


----------



## bandit.45

You married a jerk. 

And you should have divorced the jerk....before you cheated. But you have been smacked with that plank already. 

Seriously, I think you should dump both men and live alone a few years before dating again. You need some equilibrium in your life.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

bandit.45 said:


> You married a jerk.
> 
> And you should have divorced the jerk....before you cheated. But you have been smacked with that plank already.
> 
> Seriously, I think you should dump both men and live alone a few years before dating again. You need some equilibrium in your life.


Well I dumped the OM, and I would really like to give the 'jerk' another chance. I have never been a quitter and I'm thinking maybe if I get some counseling and learn to relate to him differently things may change. Besides if I divorce him now and then wait a few years before dating I'll be too old to care LOL. But thank you for that.

I know you saw my post on the other thread. I clicked on that thread and read that guys story and in a lot of ways it was like the other side of my own. I feel for him because he is feeling so inadequate, and I don't think it has much to do with him.

People really don't understand, but I met my OM on a game called Second Life. A lot of people on that game (and it's not really a game) have sex, get married, buy houses, run businesses together, date and dance and I would say most of them are married. There have been a lot of divorces as a result of that game. Yesterday I completely deleted my store (I build 3D houses on there) and I'm never going back. It's fabulous for people who are housebound or handicapped because it lets them participate fully in life but not for me anymore.


----------



## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> People really don't understand, but I met my OM on a game called Second Life. A lot of people on that game (and it's not really a game) have sex, get married, buy houses, run businesses together, date and dance and I would say most of them are married. There have been a lot of divorces as a result of that game. Yesterday I completely deleted my store (I build 3D houses on there) and I'm never going back. It's fabulous for people who are housebound or handicapped because it lets them participate fully in life but not for me anymore.


I know all about "Second Life" and how it began ( I work in high tech).

So you kicked the OM to the curb, yes? That's a good start...Is he out of the house yet? Forgive me if I missed it, but you did state that he was living in your mother's home and did not want to leave while he pursued his follies with his OW, am I right?

Anyway...Good for you for not going back to Second Life. For me it was Facebook. I became involved with 2 women on FB...one that wanted **** me and another that wanted to rescue me from the first OW...(yes...it was a sordid "mess"). I deactivated my account over 6 months ago.

Now perhaps you can focus your energy on your relationship with your husband? It may take work, but if you want to make it work, you can...

My wife and I did it...You can too. Good luck my friend.


----------



## EleGirl

A lot of people here get what second life is like. Utherverse is another place. There are all kinds of things like that on the internet.

You need to get a real life in the real world.

You said that you are not ready to give up yet. So what's your plan?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

MountainRunner said:


> I know all about "Second Life" and how it began ( I work in high tech).
> 
> So you kicked the OM to the curb, yes? That's a good start...Is he out of the house yet? Forgive me if I missed it, but you did state that he was living in your mother's home and did not want to leave while he pursued his follies with his OW, am I right?
> 
> Anyway...Good for you for not going back to Second Life. For me it was Facebook. I became involved with 2 women on FB...one that wanted **** me and another that wanted to rescue me from the first OW...(yes...it was a sordid "mess"). I deactivated my account over 6 months ago.
> 
> Now perhaps you can focus your energy on your relationship with your husband? It may take work, but if you want to make it work, you can...
> 
> My wife and I did it...You can too. Good luck my friend.


Thank you. Well as far as the OM I texted him with the law with regards to unwanted house guests. As long as he doesn't pay rent he is considered a house guest and not a tenant, which exempts me from having to go through all the eviction process.
All I have to do is call the police and tell them he is trespassing and they will come and escort him off the property.

So I texted him and told him we can do it one of two ways. I quoted him the house guest law and said or I can turn the utilities off and sweat you out (it's been 100 here with about 
90% humidity). He said I'm going to tell your husband, and I said well if you do I have nothing to lose and I texted him the number for ICE marriage fraud (thank-you to poster who gave me that number) and I told him to look it up. I said I won't hesitate to use it. Suddenly it was like oh i would never do anything like that, you know that. He is moving on Monday.

He is such a dog. The woman he married is hysterical because he won't move in with her and she thinks he still loves me. I would be willing to bet money I'm going to have to kick him out. I'm sure he thinks I won't do it, he is so sure I'm so hung up on him. I told him it's one thing what he has done to me, but to marry someone and then treat them like that. I told him he disgusts me and he is a stranger to me and I want nothing more to do with him.


----------



## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I told him he disgusts me and he is a stranger to me and I want nothing more to do with him.


Good for you. Keep it up. What you need to do now is to move ahead with getting him out of your life if you're serious, ok? This means NC (No Contact). I just recently had the the OW contact me via email asking me to come back to her. I forwarded the email to my wife and told her that whatever she wanted to do, I would honor her decision.

Are you ready to go that far?


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

EleGirl said:


> A lot of people here get what second life is like. Utherverse is another place. There are all kinds of things like that on the internet.
> 
> You need to get a real life in the real world.
> 
> You said that you are not ready to give up yet. So what's your plan?


Well the anxiety levels have gone down about 99% so that will help right there in terms of making a decision. Counseling for me and then Marriage Counseling. If we could learn to relate to each other differently we might have a chance. I'm sure the marriage counseling would also address the sexual issues. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't but at least I will have given it my best shot, and hopefully he will have too. He is not a monster and you have only heard my side of the story, I'm sure he has his too. I am far from perfect and I'm sure I push my share of his buttons too.

I closed my SL account, I'm not going back. I don't have the slightest desire to. It's actually painful for me now.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

MountainRunner said:


> Good for you. Keep it up. What you need to do now is to move ahead with getting him out of your life if you're serious, ok? This means NC (No Contact). I just recently had the the OW contact me via email asking me to come back to her. I forwarded the email to my wife and told her that whatever she wanted to do, I would honor her decision.
> 
> Are you ready to go that far?


Fortunately I can just block him on my phone (android). I'm going to block his number and his wife's. I won't even know if they call. Until he is out I'm following the old keep your friends close and your enemies closer. His wife is close to a meltdown and to make matters worse she is a recent cancer survivor and is actually getting sick form all of this. What would drive someone to marry someone after only 3 months and those three were suspicious. You know what she tells me LOL, "I see the goodness in him and I know he will change." Followed by the question which she has asked about 100 times "Do you think you will ever have sex with him again." I told her I'm not even going to be friends with him again, are you kidding me."


----------



## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I closed my SL account, I'm not going back. I don't have the slightest desire to. It's actually painful for me now.


You'll have moments where you will want to go back LG, trust me on this. In time it gets easier to stay away. I went through FB withdrawals when I left...But I'm an HPD and I seek out validation through others, more specifically women. Don't succumb to it. Hell...if a Histrionic can stay away from social media, you certainly can stay away from SL, k? I won't lie...I was tempted to go back...I still am, but the desire diminishes with time.

If you're serious, then understand this...You will have your weak moments. Instead of succumbing to the, take some time and read about the pain some of our friends have been subjected to by their loved ones regarding infidelity and take it to heart...feel their pain and gain strength to not do to your husband what these spouses have done to their mates...and then...get some therapy as to why you let this man into your life. I know why you did, but you need to know why you did. If you love your husband like I love my wife...you will do whatever it takes...got me? Best wishes my friend. *hugs*


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## morituri

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> So I texted him and told him we can do it one of two ways. I quoted him the house guest law and said or I can turn the utilities off and sweat you out (it's been 100 here with about 90% humidity). He said I'm going to tell your husband, and I said well if you do I have nothing to lose and I texted him the number for ICE marriage fraud (thank-you to poster who gave me that number) and I told him to look it up. I said I won't hesitate to use it. Suddenly it was like oh i would never do anything like that, you know that. He is moving on Monday.


You're welcome and good for you for standing up for yourself and not allowing that piece of human excrement to blackmail you.



> He is such a dog. The woman he married is hysterical because he won't move in with her and she thinks he still loves me. I would be willing to bet money I'm going to have to kick him out. I'm sure he thinks I won't do it, he is so sure I'm so hung up on him. I told him it's one thing what he has done to me, but to marry someone and then treat them like that. I told him he disgusts me and he is a stranger to me and I want nothing more to do with him.


It really doesn't come as a surprise that he did this. Anyone who has an affair with a married person is capable of committing the most vile of things, and the OM has proved to be no exception. Remember that so that there is no next time.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I cannot believe that you are getting any kind of support for your lying to your husband and cheating on him and trying to get us to understand how wonderful the POSOM is.

TAM is not normally the place for cheaters to come to for comfort but I guess there is a first for everything!

Your accepting that you are a liar and a cheat does not let you off the hook. Neither does trying to justify it by telling us how mean your husband is.

You have done something terribly wrong and frankly do not sound like you are remorseful in the slightest.


----------



## Mark72

manfromlamancha said:


> I cannot believe that you are getting any kind of support for your lying to your husband and cheating on him and trying to get us to understand how wonderful the POSOM is.
> 
> TAM is not normally the place for cheaters to come to for comfort but I guess there is a first for everything!
> 
> Your accepting that you are a liar and a cheat does not let you off the hook. Neither does trying to justify it by telling us how mean your husband is.
> 
> You have done something terribly wrong and frankly do not sound like you are remorseful in the slightest.


THe 2X4's have been swung, the scarlet "A" has been sewn into her clothes, and she is now listening to reason. The fog is lifting and seems to be genuinely trying to make the best of the situation. Time to shelf the planks and drop the stones for a while, and let her do what she needs to do.


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## ConanHub

She needs to tell her husband. That is the start.

Anything else is still self protection and selfishness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mark72

ConanHub said:


> She needs to tell her husband. That is the start.
> 
> Anything else is still self protection and selfishness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed, but let's not beat the "you cheater" horse. If she takes the advice, great. If not, this thread will quickly die and she will not get any more help.


----------



## ConanHub

I'm never impressed with backstabbers who haven't pulled the knife out yet.

We will see if she pulls the knife out and takes responsibility for the blood dripping from the wound.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mark72

ConanHub said:


> I'm never impressed with backstabbers who haven't pulled the knife out yet.
> 
> We will see if she pulls the knife out and takes responsibility for the blood dripping from the wound.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That makes a lot of sense! Come Monday or Tuesday, we will either hear I'm telling/told him or, but.. but... or nothing.

Until then, let's have a great weekend. Care for a Yeungling?


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## LonelyGirl1963

manfromlamancha said:


> I cannot believe that you are getting any kind of support for your lying to your husband and cheating on him and trying to get us to understand how wonderful the POSOM is.


Have you read all the posts on this thread. I know there is a lot of them. I never said he was wonderful, I think maybe you read a post where I was explaining how he made me feel when I was with him. But wonderful 'ah no'.



manfromlamancha said:


> TAM is not normally the place for cheaters to come to for comfort but I guess there is a first for everything!


Comfort? No again. They roasted me pretty damn good. I almost didn't come back several times. I think maybe you are mistaking encouragement to do the right thing as comfort. Did I lie and did I cheat, yes.  And as far as this place goes, I've read a lot of the threads and I see a whole lot of cheatin' goin' on, and people here on both sides of the equation trying to work it out in an anonymous environment. One of the hallmarks of an affair is that it is secret just like this place.



manfromlamancha said:


> Your accepting that you are a liar and a cheat does not let you off the hook. Neither does trying to justify it by telling us how mean your husband is.


I was not telling you how mean my husband was to make him look bad. Posters were asking me a lot of questions and I answered them honestly. Regardless of what a POS you think I am, nothing happens in a vacuum. You think I just woke up one day and said, "Gee, I think I'll cheat on my hubby today?" NO I did not.



manfromlamancha said:


> You have done something terribly wrong and frankly do not sound like you are remorseful in the slightest.


I am very remorseful for what I did. Not for feeling the way I did towards my husband because I'm justified in that, but for reacting to it the way I did. I think you are one of those people who sees everything in black and white with no gray shades in the middle. My husband is one of those people. Man from La Macha go and look out your window, and if it is one of those many dreary days you have in the UK, then you will see that in life there are way more shades of gray, because last time I looked black and white only have 2. Thanks for your input.


----------



## ConanHub

Mark72 said:


> That makes a lot of sense! Come Monday or Tuesday, we will either hear I'm telling/told him or, but.. but... or nothing.
> 
> Until then, let's have a great weekend. Care for a Yeungling?


You're a good guy. Can't believe I haven't had one of their beers yet. Will have to remedy that! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Banging another man for years was absolutely, totally on you.

Your husband had no influence or say so over your betraying actions.

The state of your marriage was definitely his responsibility as it was yours.

Your cheating is entirely your fault and your responsibility alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mark72

ConanHub said:


> You're a good guy. Can't believe I haven't had one of their beers yet. Will have to remedy that!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 @ConanHub - Not to thread jack, but they are my fav.
@LonelyGirl1963, you have some folks that you have won over. Some are betrayed spouses. You have a golden opportunity to do the right thing in the midst of all the mistakes you made. You WILL get support if you do the right thing.


----------



## lovelyblue

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Those are all good questions. No I never received treatment and I wished I would have. My life might have been a lot different.
> 
> As far as why I stayed I guess I was more afraid of being alone than I was of not realizing my dreams and a loving relationship.


This makes sense. I also had an abusive father who could careless that he has children..My father has 6 kids and he only sees one of us.

I had a hard time forgiving him which lead me to be in one-sides relationships. I found out that once I truly forgave my father-(For myself) I didn't and wouldn't put up with being less than.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

ConanHub said:


> Banging another man for years was absolutely, totally on you.
> 
> Your husband had no influence or say so over your betraying actions.
> 
> The state of your marriage was definitely his responsibility as it was yours.
> 
> Your cheating is entirely your fault and your responsibility alone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why do you guys keep banging that drum. There is nowhere, anywhere on this thread that I have not taken full responsibility for my actions. Maybe I should go to some Middle Eastern country, rip off my berka (not sure I spelled that right), confess, and let them stone me to death. Because that is the attitude I'm getting from you.

Were you cheated on or were you the cheater. I don't think many people just show up on this site because their life is so rosey and they just want to hang out. Something brought you here. Something in your life that makes you so adamant about how I should fix my own situation. I would be curious to know.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

lovelyblue said:


> This makes sense. I also had an abusive father who could careless that he has children..My father has 6 kids and he only sees one of us.
> 
> I had a hard time forgiving him which lead me to be in one-sides relationships. I found out that once I truly forgave my father-(For myself) I didn't and wouldn't put up with being less than.


I have tried to forgive my father and so far I just have not been able to. I have never heard that about one sided relationships and father issues but it really makes sense. Thank you for sharing that.


----------



## lovelyblue

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I have tried to forgive my father and so far I just have not been able to. I have never heard that about one sided relationships and father issues but it really makes sense. Thank you for sharing that.


I know it's is VERY hard to forgive your dad it took me years to realize that my own wouldn't change and he would love me the way I need.

But once I realized this and dug really deep inside of me to choose to forgive him..I felt so much better..Does it still hurt hell yea..I'm no longer holding on to what the resentment.


----------



## ConanHub

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Why do you guys keep banging that drum. There is nowhere, anywhere on this thread that I have not taken full responsibility for my actions. Maybe I should go to some Middle Eastern country, rip off my berka (not sure I spelled that right), confess, and let them stone me to death. Because that is the attitude I'm getting from you.
> 
> Were you cheated on or were you the cheater. I don't think many people just show up on this site because their life is so rosey and they just want to hang out. Something brought you here. Something in your life that makes you so adamant about how I should fix my own situation. I would be curious to know.


I never use to give cheaters a second thought or a moment of my time.

I didn't see any need to give any emotional or mental resources to the subject.

My mother was a horrendously promiscuous cheater and I learned early to despise that behavior.

What hit me like lightning was when a good friend took his own life because his POS wife convinced him that the reason she kept getting other men to bang her was that he wasn't a good husband.

So he tried to make her happy by uprooting himself and moving away from family and friends to California where she promptly started fvcking another man . 

Too much pain in too short of a period for him. He killed himself.

I later had a very good friend that had his new wife fvck another man in his own bed.

I helped him recover and even helped him reconcile with his WW.

They are doing really well now. I had to research and study infidelity to help him.

The subject makes me want to vomit but it is at plague levels and someone needs to help.

I am in a church community and no one knew a damn thing about it.

So I ran across this site while doing research.

TAM has proven valuable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

P.S. Saying that your infidelity didn't take place in a vacuum is blame shifting.

Until you tell your husband everything and fully own everything to do with your affair, you have not taken responsibility.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

I've just read through this sad mess and want to testify that if you start to finally do the right thing on all fronts, for everyone, you won't be too old in a few years to care about finding love in your life. You, in fact, will be surprised about how young you feel.

For me, the right thing is to admit that you have wronged many people in this whole scenario. Your BH has forced a sexless marriage on you (and, yes, may have been cheating the whole time or be gay, etc.), but you could have left the marriage long ago if you were so unhappy Instead, you brought another man into the picture and jerked his life around (and, yes, I know that he is responsible for his immoral/amoral end of things).

I don't believe it's too late to do the right thing. I think it's very possible that you will be very surprised to discover after all these years what is going on in your BH's life that you haven't been a part of.

You're 53, which means that the chances are good that you aren't close to dead yet. You've opted to feel trapped all these years with your marriage rather than getting out and finding an honest life for yourself. In 20 years it will probably be too late for you to restart things on a more honest footing.

And BTW, you might want to look up old timer's threads here. His W started an affair with a man from Holland via Second Life. She checked out emotionally and was meeting him clandestinely. She, too, had had some sexless years. Old timer, it turns out, had a long-term mistress and was basically a serial cheater. (He is very engaging and I liked him quite a bit....)


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

lovelyblue said:


> I know it's is VERY hard to forgive your dad it took me years to realize that my own wouldn't change and he would love me the way I need.
> 
> But once I realized this and dug really deep inside of me to choose to forgive him..I felt so much better..Does it still hurt hell yea..I'm no longer holding on to what the resentment.


I think things like that own you until you can come to grips with it. Maybe in counseling they can help me work my way through that.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

ConanHub said:


> What hit me like lightning was when a good friend took his own life because his POS wife convinced him that the reason she kept getting other men to bang her was that he wasn't a good husband.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And maybe if he didn't know, he would not be dead right now. Did you ever think of that. Not being callus but again nothing happens in a vacuum. Anyone who takes their own life over a cheating spouse has a lot more issues than just the spouse. If you want to look at it strictly from a Christian standpoint then I guess confession is the only way to go. If you want to look at it from a practical view then maybe it is not so black and white.

It sounds like you have Mommy issues which very possibly affect your opinion on this subject a lot.

I'm sorry for what you have dealt with in your life not once but twice when it comes to infidelity, and it explains the strength behind your attitude.


----------



## Elizabeth001

A rainy day in VA...had plans on catching up with my DVR stuff but got sucked into reading this thread. Oy. 

Just wanted to add my .02. OP's H sounds to me more like asexual. All the posters that are looking for reasons why he doesn't want to have sex with her because all men want to have sex just isn't true. I'm living it. 

What exactly do you do with that? When your spouse it the perfect idea...only there's no intimacy and they are perfectly ok with it but you are left empty?

I get her. In a big way.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

alte Dame said:


> I've just read through this sad mess and want to testify that if you start to finally do the right thing on all fronts, for everyone, you won't be too old in a few years to care about finding love in your life. You, in fact, will be surprised about how young you feel.
> 
> For me, the right thing is to admit that you have wronged many people in this whole scenario. Your BH has forced a sexless marriage on you (and, yes, may have been cheating the whole time or be gay, etc.), but you could have left the marriage long ago if you were so unhappy Instead, you brought another man into the picture and jerked his life around (and, yes, I know that he is responsible for his immoral/amoral end of things).
> 
> I don't believe it's too late to do the right thing. I think it's very possible that you will be very surprised to discover after all these years what is going on in your BH's life that you haven't been a part of.
> 
> You're 53, which means that the chances are good that you aren't close to dead yet. You've opted to feel trapped all these years with your marriage rather than getting out and finding an honest life for yourself. In 20 years it will probably be too late for you to restart things on a more honest footing.
> 
> And BTW, you might want to look up old timer's threads here. His W started an affair with a man from Holland via Second Life. She checked out emotionally and was meeting him clandestinely. She, too, had had some sexless years. Old timer, it turns out, had a long-term mistress and was basically a serial cheater. (He is very engaging and I liked him quite a bit....)


I have not been cheating the entire time, just this time and I am definitely not gay. Had I have been gay I probably would have found myself a woman and not a man. Women are so much easier to understand. 

I hear what you are saying about getting too old. I have to admit that at one time I thought 53 was ancient and yet now that I'm here I feel exactly the same as I always have.


----------



## MountainRunner

53 isn't old. Hell, I'm 55 and I feel great. Just sayin...


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Elizabeth001 said:


> A rainy day in VA...had plans on catching up with my DVR stuff but got sucked into reading this thread. Oy.
> 
> Just wanted to add my .02. OP's H sounds to me more like asexual. All the posters that are looking for reasons why he doesn't want to have sex with her because all men want to have sex just isn't true. I'm living it.
> 
> What exactly do you do with that? When your spouse it the perfect idea...only there's no intimacy and they are perfectly ok with it but you are left empty?
> 
> I get her. In a big way.


Thank you! GOD, someone who understands. I think people just don't think men are ever asexual. I really think that is what it is. We are best friends and yes he is very happy with things the way they are. He doesn't see any problems with our marriage. If sex was something he wanted and I didn't he would have either left me by now, or been having a multitude of affairs. His life is a very open book. I know where he is 90% of the time and I can always reach him when I need to. Phone is not locked everything is open and accessible. I'm sure he is not having an affair. Thank you for sharing, I appreciate it.


----------



## lovelyblue

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I think things like that own you until you can come to grips with it. Maybe in counseling they can help me work my way through that.


I agree 100%. 

what also pissed me off about my father was my bother who's a years older than me..Called our dad one night in pain asking for his help and the bastard cuss his own son out telling him that his problems were his own. I mean WTF.

IMO We never know how much not having a parent or abuse parent effects us..If you need help their is no shame it in.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

MountainRunner said:


> 53 isn't old. Hell, I'm 55 and I feel great. Just sayin...


LOL. Just takes a lot more maintenance every decade.:cussing:


----------



## Elizabeth001

>>>We are best friends and yes he is very happy with things the way they are. He doesn't see any problems with our marriage.

Same here :/


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

Elizabeth001 said:


> >>>We are best friends and yes he is very happy with things the way they are. He doesn't see any problems with our marriage.
> 
> Same here :/


You have my sympathy. Have you tried to work it out, if not how do you cope with your situation?


----------



## Elizabeth001

And to add...53, 56, and in my case 46 is IMHO WAY to late to start over with nothing. All you peeps on the bandwagon saying you are oh so young ARE drinking the kook-aid. At this point in life you had better have a plan for your old age. To think otherwise is just plain foolish.


----------



## Elizabeth001

I'm not coping very well LG. search my user name and you will see my situation. He is doing better but a lot of damage has been done. I know in my heart that it will be a small miracle if my marriage ever comes close to what I truly need or feel like what I desire. I'm hanging in for the time being. I have no choice.


----------



## turnera

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I am very remorseful for what I did.


You say your H is an open book. But you are not. If you're truly remorseful, you will return the favor. Tell him the truth and let him decide what his future holds...with the truth. Not telling is simply a selfish choice - for your OWN benefit.


----------



## lovelyblue

My mom is 65 and I don't consider that old. Shoot my grandma was 82 and wasn't old imo of course.


----------



## morituri

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Elizabeth001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A rainy day in VA...had plans on catching up with my DVR stuff but got sucked into reading this thread. Oy.
> 
> Just wanted to add my .02. OP's H sounds to me more like asexual. All the posters that are looking for reasons why he doesn't want to have sex with her because all men want to have sex just isn't true. I'm living it.
> 
> What exactly do you do with that? When your spouse it the perfect idea...only there's no intimacy and they are perfectly ok with it but you are left empty?
> 
> I get her. In a big way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! GOD, someone who understands. I think people just don't think men are ever asexual. I really think that is what it is. We are best friends and yes he is very happy with things the way they are. He doesn't see any problems with our marriage. If sex was something he wanted and I didn't he would have either left me by now, or *been having a multitude of affairs*. His life is a very open book. I know where he is 90% of the time and I can always reach him when I need to. Phone is not locked everything is open and accessible. I'm sure he is not having an affair. Thank you for sharing, I appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Time and again spouses who chose to stay in a sexless marriage, are flirting with disaster. Sooner or later another person comes into their lives and they fall into an affair. Nobody has forced you to stay in a sexual and romantic dessert of a marriage for decades. YOU accepted it and forced it upon yourself.

As far as your husband not having affairs because he is an asexual open book with his personal devices, you are being naive. There are many cheating spouses who do not use their personal phones nor personal computers to communicate with their AP. If he works for a company, he could use his work desktop and/or phone to make his rendezvous. If he travels for business, he could be very well be having sex with another woman or man (alte Dame gay remark was towards your husband not you). There are men and women whose sex lives with their spouses is satisfactory but have a void inside that causes them to seek out AP to engage in sexual practices that they would never dream of having with their spouses.

It wouldn't be surprising that the day you confess to your husband about your 3 year affair, that he may also confesses about his affair(s). So, as they say, "expect the unexpected".


----------



## ConanHub

LOL! Don't have mommy issues at all.

I grew up way before her and don't need analysis from a woman who has screwed up as bad as you and hasn't fixed it yet.

My dead friend wasn't as clueless and disconnected as your H seems to be.

He found out.

Again. You are not owning one damn bit of your shyt if you don't let your husband in on the fact that you have been cuckolding him for years.

He needs the info to make an informed decision.

Anything else is you simply being the self centered cheater you chose to become years ago.

I hope you become a better person.

Continuing to lie is only keeping you in pathetic land.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

morituri said:


> Time and again spouses who chose to stay in a sexless marriage, are flirting with disaster. Sooner or later another person comes into their lives and they fall into an affair. Nobody has forced you to stay in a sexual and romantic dessert of a marriage for decades. YOU accepted it and forced it upon yourself.
> 
> As far as your husband not having affairs because he is an asexual open book with his personal devices, you are being naive. There are many cheating spouses who do not use their personal phones nor personal computers to communicate with their AP. If he works for a company, he could use his work desktop and/or phone to make his rendezvous. If he travels for business, he could be very well be having sex with another woman or man (alte Dame gay remark was towards your husband not you). There are men and women whose sex lives with their spouses is satisfactory but have a void inside that causes them to seek out AP to engage in sexual practices that they would never dream of having with their spouses.
> 
> It wouldn't be surprising that the day you confess to your husband about your 3 year affair, that he may also confesses about his affair(s). So, as they say, "expect the unexpected".


Well he doesn't travel or work for another company. His world is pretty much within a 3 mile radius. He is pretty plain vanilla about everything in his life so while anything is possible, kinky sex is probably out of the realm as well. And he seems quite content with things as they are. I'm the one who has been discontented. Right now I'm not really feeling much of anything except played out. It's not a good time for me to make that kind of decision. If I do I would like it to be with the help of a councilor who works with these kinds of situations and can give me a professional opinion not one that is biased because of something that has happened in their life. They are trained to filter out their own past situations and focus on their clients.

Life is complex, people are complex and everything is not that simple. How many times do I have to say yes I do own it, I'm the one who chose it, and I'm the one who has to live with the aftermath whatever that might be. If he is happy does that mean he needs to know if it changes nothing or if there is another way to change things? And if so why? I would rather fix it gently then tear his heart out because I think that is what I would be doing, and I can't bear to do that.


----------



## Maricha75

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> So I texted him and told him we can do it one of two ways. I quoted him the house guest law and said or I can turn the utilities off and sweat you out (it's been 100 here with about
> 90% humidity). *He said I'm going to tell your husband, and I said well if you do I have nothing to lose and I texted him the number for ICE marriage fraud (thank-you to poster who gave me that number) and I told him to look it up. I said I won't hesitate to use it.* Suddenly it was like oh i would never do anything like that, you know that. He is moving on Monday.


:banghead:
You were afforded the perfect opportunity to do the right thing... on more than one front. And yet, you did nothing. You tell your husband, OM has nothing to hold over you. Then you call ICE and tell them about him and he gets deported anyway. 

Instead... you played bluffing game. Smh.


----------



## turnera

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Life is complex, people are complex and everything is not that simple. How many times do I have to say yes I do own it, I'm the one who chose it, and I'm the one who has to live with the aftermath whatever that might be. If he is happy does that mean he needs to know if it changes nothing or if there is another way to change things? And if so why? I would rather fix it gently then tear his heart out because I think that is what I would be doing, and I can't bear to do that.


If you're not going to tell him the truth about HIS LIFE, then at least do the next most honorable thing, and divorce him so he doesn't have to continue to be cheated on. And not know it.

Do SOMETHING honorable.


----------



## alte Dame

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I have not been cheating the entire time, just this time and I am definitely not gay. Had I have been gay I probably would have found myself a woman and not a man. Women are so much easier to understand.


I was referring to your BH, not you.

And ftr, you haven't been cheating 'this time.' You have been cheating for many years.


----------



## manfromlamancha

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Have you read all the posts on this thread. I know there is a lot of them. I never said he was wonderful, I think maybe you read a post where I was explaining how he made me feel when I was with him. But wonderful 'ah no'.
> 
> 
> 
> Comfort? No again. They roasted me pretty damn good. I almost didn't come back several times. I think maybe you are mistaking encouragement to do the right thing as comfort. Did I lie and did I cheat, yes. And as far as this place goes, I've read a lot of the threads and I see a whole lot of cheatin' goin' on, and people here on both sides of the equation trying to work it out in an anonymous environment. One of the hallmarks of an affair is that it is secret just like this place.
> 
> 
> 
> I was not telling you how mean my husband was to make him look bad. Posters were asking me a lot of questions and I answered them honestly. Regardless of what a POS you think I am, nothing happens in a vacuum. You think I just woke up one day and said, "Gee, I think I'll cheat on my hubby today?" NO I did not.
> 
> 
> 
> I am very remorseful for what I did. Not for feeling the way I did towards my husband because I'm justified in that, but for reacting to it the way I did. I think you are one of those people who sees everything in black and white with no gray shades in the middle. My husband is one of those people. Man from La Macha go and look out your window, and if it is one of those many dreary days you have in the UK, then you will see that in life there are way more shades of gray, because last time I looked black and white only have 2. Thanks for your input.



And as soon as you detect any support for your alleged remorse, you switch right back to justifying the affair - in fact you just did it again - of course you woke up one day and decided to cheat !


----------



## alte Dame

Elizabeth001 said:


> And to add...53, 56, and in my case 46 is IMHO WAY to late to start over with nothing. All you peeps on the bandwagon saying you are oh so young ARE drinking the kook-aid. At this point in life you had better have a plan for your old age. To think otherwise is just plain foolish.


I am 61 & have never, ever drunk the kool-aid.

I didn't say you shouldn't have a plan. I said that the plan doesn't necessarily dictate that you won't have a love/sex life.

I don't think that, at age 46, you are in much of a position to know what life is really like as you head into retirement age.


----------



## morituri

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Right now I'm not really feeling much of anything except played out. It's not a good time for me to make that kind of decision. If I do I would like it to be with the help of a councilor who works with these kinds of situations and can give me a professional opinion not one that is biased because of something that has happened in their life. They are trained to filter out their own past situations and focus on their clients


It's probably safe to say that you probably read this forum before you started your thread and posted your story, so you knew what the environment in the CWI forum is like, and that the vast majority of its members are formerly betrayed spouses. What did you expect from posting your story?

As far as a trained therapist is concerned, are you going to look for one which will fit your confirmation bias and make you feel better about your bad choices? If you are and do find one, please don't submit your BH (betrayed husband) to him/her. He doesn't need an "expert" that will tell him it is all his fault and that he drove you to cheat on him. Afford him that little bit of dignity he will have left after he knows the truth about you and your affair.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

ConanHub said:


> I grew up way before her and don't need analysis from a woman who has screwed up as bad as you and hasn't fixed it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything else is you simply being the self centered cheater you chose to become years ago.
> 
> I hope you become a better person.
> 
> Continuing to lie is only keeping you in pathetic land.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well we can all stand to improve can't we. My hope for you is that you become a less self righteous person. Until then my closest neighbor in pathetic land will be you.

*Definition of self-righteous
[self-rahy-chuh s, self-]


adjective
1.
confident of one's own righteousness, 
especially when smugly moralistic and 
intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.*


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

turnera said:


> If you're not going to tell him the truth about HIS LIFE, then at least do the next most honorable thing, and divorce him so he doesn't have to continue to be cheated on. And not know it.
> 
> Do SOMETHING honorable.


Why do you assume he will continue to be cheated on. First of all the OM has been dumped and secondly, if that was my plan I would not be here, I would be out looking for a new OM. So don't make assumptions like that.

I'm am not a serial cheater, I had one affair and it was a long one.


----------



## turnera

lol

Every cheater who comes here and doesn't get patted on the back calls us posters self-righteous.


----------



## ConanHub

turnera said:


> lol
> 
> Every cheater who comes here and doesn't get patted on the back calls us posters self-righteous.


Yeah. We are so self righteous because we don't have some genitals on the side.

LOL 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Why do you assume he will continue to be cheated on. First of all the OM has been dumped and secondly, if that was my plan I would not be here, I would be out looking for a new OM. So don't make assumptions like that.
> 
> I'm am not a serial cheater, I had one affair and it was a long one.


So what will you do in a year, when you're still in the same boat and your marriage hasn't changed and a new guy pursues you and sweet-talks you cos he sees an easy lay and wants in your pants?

YOU will still be unhappy, and the current feelings you have will be long gone and you'll be comfortably back in 'my life sucks so I deserve this' mode. And once time has erased the feelings you had in ending it, the justifications will start coming again. And - here's the stinker - they will be even EASIER the second time. That's basic psychology. You can't escape it; it's what humans do.

I ASSUME you will cheat again because you have NOT done the real work that a REALLY remorseful cheater does - total honesty, total remorse, and willing to do anything to make up for what they did. You, instead, are doing what _kinda-sorta_ former cheaters do - and we see people like you here all.the.time. You're trying to NEGOTIATE something that lets YOU have the easy way out despite what you did. And that's not remorse. And it won't work in the end. Truth will out. In all my years doing this, I can think of 3 people out of thousands who managed to hide the cheating til their deathbed and have a decent life. All others were found out and thousands of OTHER people, affiliated with them, were hurt and damaged. Because that person was selfish and didn't want to face his/her consequences of his/her own actions.

Posters like you don't last long. Because you don't hear what you want to hear - that you can cheat, end it, pretend it never happened, keep the secret from your spouse (for the good of your spouse, of course), and NOT cheat again. 

YOU think you can do that. But thousands of cases just like yours that we've seen over the years dictate otherwise. 

If you were REALLY committed to making up for what you did, the first thing you would have done is told your H the truth - because you love him and want what's best for HIM, not YOU. So he can make a decision based on the TRUTH of his life, not the fake truth you've provided through dishonesty.

So, you're now onto the stage we see every day - blaming US for being biased, mean, out for revenge, yada yada, because we dare to tell you that you have to show integrity to earn back your grace, and you don't want to hear that.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

morituri said:


> It's probably safe to say that you probably read this forum before you started your thread and posted your story, so you knew what the environment in the CWI forum is like, and that the vast majority of its members are formerly betrayed spouses. What did you expect from posting your story?
> 
> As far as a trained therapist is concerned, are you going to look for one which will fit your confirmation bias and make you feel better about your bad choices? If you are and do find one, please don't submit your BH (betrayed husband) to him/her. He doesn't need an "expert" that will tell him it is all his fault and that he drove you to cheat on him. Afford him that little bit of dignity he will have left after he knows the truth about you and your affair.


I expected discussion and sharing, not out and out attacks on me as a person. Not name calling and I guess not so much self-righteousness. A lot of people posted to this thread with no other intention but to call me a b i t c h or a w h o r e or some equally vile thing with basically nothing to add but that. Some of you are like the Romans at the Colosseum. What is interesting to me is the nastier and the more crass the comments were the more likes they got. Do I consider that advise from a quality person. No I don't. That is someone out to get their yayas by by acting like a child and adding nothing to the discussion. I guess they are so pissed and continue to be so pissed about their own situations that behaving like that somehow soothes their own wounds. So yeah I'm pretty surprised at some of you. But hey always happy to help if that makes some of you feel better about yourselves.


----------



## turnera

We've already told you what to do, to 'add to the discussion.' You just don't want to do it.


----------



## turnera

The other thing cheaters always say when they come here: 'you're just beating me up so you feel better about yourselves.'

Nope, we 'waste' our time helping people like you because every once in a while, we get THROUGH to one of you, and you REALIZE that you can't have what you want without the sacrifice of coming clean.

Do it or not, no skin off our noses. But if you don't, I hope you'll remember the time you came to a place where you were told to come clean, how it would give you back your integrity, and you chose not to. Because eventually, you WILL pay a price for not doing so. We're just trying to help you choose to do it now, while it's not as bad, rather than later, when you've got years more of deceit piled on top of it to answer for.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

morituri said:


> As far as a trained therapist is concerned, are you going to look for one which will fit your confirmation bias and make you feel better about your bad choices? If you are and do find one, please don't submit your BH (betrayed husband) to him/her. He doesn't need an "expert" that will tell him it is all his fault and that he drove you to cheat on him. Afford him that little bit of dignity he will have left after he knows the truth about you and your affair.


How would I know that ahead of time. And you just said it. The little bit of dignity he will have left after he knows. Why should I take that away from him when there could be a different path to correcting the problem. Why should I punish him when I'm the one who made the wrong choices. I want to try and fix things and if I can't I have one of two choices. Live with it or get a divorce.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

turnera said:


> The other thing cheaters always say when they come here: 'you're just beating me up so you feel better about yourselves.'
> 
> Nope, we 'waste' our time helping people like you because every once in a while, we get THROUGH to one of you, and you REALIZE that you can't have what you want without the sacrifice of coming clean.
> 
> Do it or not, no skin off our noses. But if you don't, I hope you'll remember the time you came to a place where you were told to come clean, how it would give you back your integrity, and you chose not to. Because eventually, you WILL pay a price for not doing so. We're just trying to help you choose to do it now, while it's not as bad, rather than later, when you've got years more of deceit piled on top of it to answer for.


Let me ask you a question, were you the cheator or the cheetee? If you were the cheator then why did you do it. If you were the cheetee why do you think your spouse cheated on you? I'm curious.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

In regards to some of the comments made here. Do you think in any other part of life such as a board room, or a party, or in public, or at church would the name calling and the rudeness be tolerated. What makes this forum different. I'd like to know.


----------



## morituri

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> I expected discussion and sharing, not out and out attacks on me as a person. Not name calling and I guess not so much self-righteousness. A lot of people posted to this thread with no other intention but to call me a b i t c h or a w h o r e or some equally vile thing with basically nothing to add but that. Some of you are like the Romans at the Colosseum. What is interesting to me is the nastier and the more crass the comments were the more likes they got. Do I consider that advise from a quality person. No I don't. That is someone out to get their yayas by by acting like a child and adding nothing to the discussion. I guess they are so pissed and continue to be so pissed about their own situations that behaving like that somehow soothes their own wounds. So yeah I'm pretty surprised at some of you. But hey always happy to help if that makes some of you feel better about yourselves.


There is a "report post" icon on the bottom left of every post - an inverted triangle which you can use to report a poster to the moderators if you believe that the poster has been abusive or overstepped the boundaries set forth in the end user agreement. The moderators are really responsive to complaints.

You can also go to the top and click the "User CP" to the left of "Log Out". On the next page under "Your Control Panel", go down to "Settings and Options" and click on it. In the following page you can put the username you want to put on the ignore list.

Or you can simply tell a poster you consider to be disrespectful to please refrain from further comments to your thread. That often is enough for a poster to stop.

Lastly, getting mad at some of the commenters is not going to solve your situation for as much you believe them to be "self righteous" they are often right on the money. If the roles were reversed and it had been your husband who had a 3 year long affair, I doubt that you wouldn't be feeling a little self righteous yourself, would you?


----------



## turnera

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Let me ask you a question, were you the cheator or the cheetee? If you were the cheator then why did you do it. If you were the cheetee why do you think your spouse cheated on you? I'm curious.


I was neither. I just come here out of the goodness of my heart to try to stop misguided people from continuing to make mistakes. I've never cheated on my H and my H tells me every time a woman propositions him and he rejects her (happens every few years). 

Saying that you will ruin your H's dignity is a MAJOR copout and extremely selfish. At least be honest with this group of anonymous strangers - you don't tell him because you don't want to catch heat for what you did.

If you'd at least be honest about that, you could build on it for a better future.


----------



## turnera

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> In regards to some of the comments made here. Do you think in any other part of life such as a board room, or a party, or in public, or at church would the name calling and the rudeness be tolerated. What makes this forum different. I'd like to know.


First, people are not being rude. They're being honest. Telling you that what you did was WRONG and that it removes your HONOR is the truth.

Second, YOU came HERE for advice and insight. And that's what you're getting. So that's what makes it different from a party or a boardroom or a church.

And if someone actually calls you a wh*re or something, just report them and let the mods take care of them.


----------



## turnera

Anon, I accept plenty of input from her - except for justification for withholding the truth. The ONLY time I've seen that be a valuable, or justifiable, decision is if the betrayed spouse is on his deathbed and it won't matter and it would spare him/her the pain in his/her last days.

The ALMOST other justifiable time to not tell the truth is if the WS is immediately divorcing the BS. And then, only if the BS hasn't been knowing something was going on and was - out of ignorance - blaming himself/herself for whatever seemed to be going wrong (i.e., what the cheater does in the throes of the affair that makes the BS feel like they're going crazy).

I'm glad she's stopped cheating. I'm cheering her on for either fixing her marriage (which includes telling the truth) or ending the marriage. Just not for keeping the marriage and not telling the truth. Because that is only HALF of a marriage and based on lies and doomed to hurt the participants. I'm trying to help her see that only by being honest can she move forward with integrity. And, in the end, integrity is all we really have.


----------



## MountainRunner

turnera said:


> The other thing cheaters always say when they come here: 'you're just beating me up so you feel better about yourselves.'


Not me...Just sayin.


----------



## morituri

Going back to the OM. Keep in mind that though for the moment, he may no longer feel he can blackmail you with disclosure, the day may come when he believes that he's got nothing to lose by telling your husband about your affair. If that happens, then all your efforts to keep it hidden will be for nothing. Confessing to your husband is the surest way that the OM will never again be able to threaten you with disclosure. 

Reconciliation is much harder when the affair is discovered by the BH through his own digging or through the coming forth of a third party who informs him about it. The BH often believes that if the affair had not been discovered, that the WW would have continued with her affair. Confessing before you are outed makes this belief harder to stick.


----------



## Maricha75

MountainRunner said:


> Not me...Just sayin.


Nor I.


----------



## LonelyGirl1963

turnera said:


> First, people are not being rude. They're being honest. Telling you that what you did was WRONG and that it removes your HONOR is the truth.
> 
> Second, YOU came HERE for advice and insight. And that's what you're getting. So that's what makes it different from a party or a boardroom or a church.
> 
> And if someone actually calls you a wh*re or something, just report them and let the mods take care of them.


If someone called you a ***** or a tramp would you not consider that rude? :frown2:


----------



## morituri

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> If someone called you a ***** or a tramp would you not consider that rude? :frown2:


Then report it. Moderators like Deejo, Elegirl and Amplexor will not tolerate that kind of bad behavior and may be even ban the poster temporarily or forever.


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## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> LG - focus on those who addressing your questions and don't argue with those who CLEARLY have judged you, found you guilty and have sentenced you.
> 
> Their opinions are valid and you can learn from them, but they will accept NO input from you. So don't flinch too much and keep moving forward.
> 
> I have never been cheated on, so perhaps I can more clearly see your progress as you lift yourself from the fog.
> 
> Do this - write down all details and a complete timeline. Take your time. Even if you never share it, it will be important for your personal insight and recovery.
> 
> Second - get IC and shortly thereafter MC.
> 
> Those are separate things and you seem to be self aware enough to be able to slowly see the truths and get insight into how to change your internal thinking and also your behavior.
> 
> MC is probably the forum to disclose your affair - but you should be prepared for full disclosure when you pull the trigger. The MC setting will ensure you both have time to process this and get your points out. You will have to both see you are being heard AND be in a position to SRPARATELY take full responsibility for your EA and PA without excuses or blame shifting. I have seen progress on your posts - when you don't fall back into defensive mode with people here - so keep the hoid part of the progress going. I actually believe you can succeed if you get into GOOD MC and IC


That is good advise. You are right about the rest of it too. Reacting to those who have been judge, jury, and executioner serves no purpose for me. I will write out a timeline. I have always been a plus minus list person when I can't make a decision. So this would be similar to that. Thank you!


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## turnera

The wisest, kindest, best person I ever knew was a former wayward. Who learned from it, chose integrity ever after, and never spoke a lie again as long as I knew her. 

I judge no one for cheating. I judge them for their choices AFTER they are out of the affair fog. Once you're out of the fog - and you are clearly out of the fog - their choices most closely reflect their character. So you can make choices that reflect the character you wish people to see in you, or you can continue to hide your flaws, for whatever personal reasons you have, and hope that people will never know and never see the real person who chose the easy path.

You're the only person who has to live with you. So make the choices you'll be proud of.


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## turnera

His Needs Her Needs is an excellent first step for you. It plainly and clearly explains what we expect in marriages, how to both give it and receive it, and what can happen if those needs (ours and our spouses') aren't met, such as affairs. It will explain a lot.

And you can use it to help explain to your H, when you tell him the truth, WHY you ended up where you did. And how you and he can move forward from it.


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## EleGirl

There are two schools of thought about telling the BS about an affair. 


One says to tell because the ends the lying. A good marriage is very hard to have when there is a huge lie between the spouses. Plus it lets the BS know what's going on in their life and lets them decide if this is the marriage that they want. That was each person is given the right and dignity to make up their own mind what they want to do for the rest of their life.

The other school says do not tell. Telling is only a way for the WS to shift the guilt and pain to the BS. It's considered a selfish act to tell. Instead the WS is told to not tell but to spend the rest of their life making it up to their spouse. 

As a BS, I tend to think that telling and letting the chips fall as they may is the right thing to do. I would want to know.

But I do wish that I could have been spared the pain for something someone else did.

All that we can do is to give people info. They have to make up their own minds on what they will do. This usually takes more than one or two days. So haranguing the OP, demanding that she tell right this instant on some poster's time-line is nonsense. LG has some soul searching to do. She knows that she was wrong. Now she has to process all this, get her head together and decide what to do.


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## LonelyGirl1963

EleGirl said:


> There are two schools of thought about telling the BS about an affair.
> 
> 
> One says to tell because the ends the lying. A good marriage is very hard to have when there is a huge lie between the spouses. Plus it lets the BS know what's going on in their life and lets them decide if this is the marriage that they want. That was each person is given the right and dignity to make up their own mind what they want to do for the rest of their life.
> 
> The other school says do not tell. Telling is only a way for the WS to shift the guilt and pain to the BS. It's considered a selfish act to tell. Instead the WS is told to not tell but to spend the rest of their life making it up to their spouse.
> 
> As a BS, I tend to think that telling and letting the chips fall as they may is the right thing to do. I would want to know.
> 
> But I do wish that I could have been spared the pain for something someone else did.
> 
> All that we can do is to give people info. They have to make up their own minds on what they will do. This usually takes more than one or two days. So haranguing the OP, demanding that she tell right this instant on some poster's time-line is nonsense. LG has some soul searching to do. She knows that she was wrong. Now she has to process all this, get her head together and decide what to do.


Thank you Elegirl. I have been dwelling on this for two days, most of my waking hours. And things keep bubbling up to the surface. I have been remembering back over the last 18 months or so and he has made some remarks that makes me think he does know. Before the OM came over he even caught me talking to him on Skype. I guess in all of this I have been so busy defending myself I left out a pretty big piece of the puzzle.

I was really upset when he caught me on Skype and I said to him. I will leave, I never wanted to hurt you and I'm sorry. Hurting you is the last thing I want to do. He said I don't want you to go, where would you go. I did have a place to go because my mother's house was empty. He knows I don't talk to anyone on Skype because I don't have anyone that I talk to who uses Skype. So he knows I was not talking to some cousin or friend. He has made several remarks in a joking manner since then. He never presses it. It's like he really does not want to know. If the roles were reversed, I would have asked. I would have been curious. So what do I do shove it down his throat and say, "You must know this, even if you already do and don't want to know, I'm going to confront you with it and make you look at something you aren't prepared to see." I have a really hard time with doing that. He always tells me he got married once and he will be married only once.:crying:


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## turnera

So what he's telling you is that he will forgive you if you tell him the truth.

That he will hurt, but he ONLY wants you.

If you love him give him the honor of placing your faith in him.

I know it's really hard for you to see from your vantage point, but please trust us when we say we've seen this play out thousands of times. Your relationship with him will improve if you will just be honest with him. In fact, I suspect that if you share with him how lonely you've been in y'all's marriage, he might PUSH himself to be more sexual, because he loves you and wants you to be happy.

It's the loss of communication that has caused this great rift in your life. Bring that back. Bring back the closeness you once had by sharing with him your loneliness, sorrow, needs, and wishes for a husband who wants to ravish you in the bedroom. Let him SEE that. Let him see the pain in your eyes that led you to cheat. Let him then decide to either push himself out of his comfort zone to please you, or let you go to find it elsewhere. 

Give him that choice of dignity.

And just so you know, LG, I know PLENTY of marriages that have improved after infidelity. Many couples use this as a springboard for a second chance, the grownup choice after mistakes, to vow to make life together incredible. You can do that.


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## ConanHub

I know you haven't had sex with your H in years but get tested for STDs at least.

If you somehow get him to have sex with you again you want to make sure you aren't endangering him especially if you are not going to inform him of the possible danger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Thank you Elegirl. I have been dwelling on this for two days, most of my waking hours. And things keep bubbling up to the surface. I have been remembering back over the last 18 months or so and he has made some remarks that makes me think he does know. Before the OM came over he even caught me talking to him on Skype. I guess in all of this I have been so busy defending myself I left out a pretty big piece of the puzzle.
> 
> I was really upset when he caught me on Skype and I said to him. I will leave, I never wanted to hurt you and I'm sorry. Hurting you is the last thing I want to do. He said I don't want you to go, where would you go. I did have a place to go because my mother's house was empty. He knows I don't talk to anyone on Skype because I don't have anyone that I talk to who uses Skype. So he knows I was not talking to some cousin or friend. He has made several remarks in a joking manner since then. He never presses it. It's like he really does not want to know. If the roles were reversed, I would have asked. I would have been curious. So what do I do shove it down his throat and say, "You must know this, even if you already do and don't want to know, I'm going to confront you with it and make you look at something you aren't prepared to see." I have a really hard time with doing that. He always tells me he got married once and he will be married only once.:crying:


Go completely NC (no contact) with the OM...completely and sit your husband down and tell him you had an affair and you have ended it (but only if you're being honest, ok?). Tell him that you will offer up "full disclosure" and answer any questions he may have. He may not want to know immediately as he may need to process having been walloped in the face with an affair. Give him full access to all Internet connected devices and any passwords you may have...

Look him square in the eyes and tell him that you are deeply sorry, you've made a mistake because you've been selfish (us cheaters really are because we put our feelings above all others, don't we?) and that you intend upon getting into counseling.

That's a start.


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## turnera

FWIW, this is one of the rare instances where I blame the affair as much on the BS as on the WS. He should KNOW that he owes you sex. Yet he chooses not to. And you should have communicated those needs better. 

But if you do tell him the truth and then you say what next, IMO the single most important thing to do is to find out WHY he is asexual. And see if it can be changed. Because if it can't, you two have to make a decision on whether to keep this marriage.


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## ConanHub

Also, at least hold nothing back in a counseling session. Even if you want to keep your husband in the dark, your counselor or therapist needs to know exactly what they are dealing with.

I am sorry for your sham of a marriage.

It is truly terrible that these marital issues were not addressed at the beginning and no one had useful advice for you.

Hope you and your H become healthier individuals.

I can't honestly give your marriage much of a chance. Too much going against it combined with your great fear which seems to have been your prime motivator for decades.

If you can address your fear in counseling, to come to grips with it, face it and put it behind you that would probably unlock a great deal of success in your life and give you a greater chance at repairing your marriage.

Maybe you didn't realize how you have portrayed yourself here but it did not inspire endearment to say the least.

If you really want help then stick it out and you will get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyGirl1963

turnera said:


> So what he's telling you is that he will forgive you if you tell him the truth.
> 
> That he will hurt, but he ONLY wants you.
> 
> If you love him give him the honor of placing your faith in him.
> 
> I know it's really hard for you to see from your vantage point, but please trust us when we say we've seen this play out thousands of times. Your relationship with him will improve if you will just be honest with him. In fact, I suspect that if you share with him how lonely you've been in y'all's marriage, he might PUSH himself to be more sexual, because he loves you and wants you to be happy.
> 
> It's the loss of communication that has caused this great rift in your life. Bring that back. Bring back the closeness you once had by sharing with him your loneliness, sorrow, needs, and wishes for a husband who wants to ravish you in the bedroom. Let him SEE that. Let him see the pain in your eyes that led you to cheat. Let him then decide to either push himself out of his comfort zone to please you, or let you go to find it elsewhere.
> 
> Give him that choice of dignity.
> 
> And just so you know, LG, I know PLENTY of marriages that have improved after infidelity. Many couples use this as a springboard for a second chance, the grownup choice after mistakes, to vow to make life together incredible. You can do that.


I hope you are right. You know today for the first time in I don't know how long he said out of the blue, "Hey, you want to go with me to a gun show tomorrow." I was so surprised he hasn't asked me to go anywhere except out to dinner in so long. I'm really looking forward to it. Made me happy. Made me think there is something we can start building on even if it's small.


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## MountainRunner

turnera said:


> And just so you know, LG, I know PLENTY of marriages that have improved after infidelity. Many couples use this as a springboard for a second chance, the grownup choice after mistakes, to vow to make life together incredible. You can do that.


QFT.


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## MountainRunner

ConanHub said:


> *Also, at least hold nothing back in a counseling session.* Even if you want to keep your husband in the dark, your counselor or therapist needs to know exactly what they are dealing with.


Allow me second this. Effective therapy has to start with the patient being open and honest with their counselor. The first couple of months can be hard as we are stripped down bare and exposed...It is painful, very painful. I have probably sobbed twenty gallons of tears the first couple of months as I spilled my guts and bared my soul...I can look back on it now and say it needed to be done, but when I was mired in it...It hurt...badly....but it needed to be done.

For the love of your husband and your relationship, be strong and just do it. Good luck LG and let us know how you're doing....If you want to get better and do the heavy lifting, you'll be amazed at the amount of support you will receive here. I was spoken to pretty harshly when I came aboard. Many didn't believe me...called me selfish...told me some pretty heavy things, but I kept my "eye on the ball" and did what needed to be done. I'd like to think that one of the reasons I can contribute and simultaneously receive support for my journey is that I am being honest here and that others can see I am "walking the walk".

Be sincere, honest, do what needs to be done, and you will find a world of support here on TAM and maybe even make some friends like I have.


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## turnera

I can attest to that. As long as you're taking the strong way out, the RIGHT way out (based on thousands of cases like yours), we'll support you to the end. We just need you to take that leap of faith.


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## LonelyGirl1963

One comment I have is that my affair was for half the time emotional and half the time physical. Maybe I did not make this clear, but the emotional abandonment I felt was probably more painful than the lack of sex. Healthy sex is another form of communication and when we stopped having it, it was just another way that we stopped communicating. For us girls, sex is mostly between the ears not the legs.

Maybe because of my past or my own issues I have a very high need to be emotionally close in my relationships. All my friends, and my past romantic relationships (before I was married) have always been long and enduring compared to most. Even this affair. 

I saw a post on another thread from a gentleman who said something like after an affair you never get your old marriage back but rather you need to build a new one on the wreckage of the old one. I thought that was brilliant and oh so true.


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## turnera

So just imagine your future, LG. You take your H to MC. While there, you tell him the truth - that you felt SO abandoned, SO unloved, SO unlovable, that when another man came around and told you the love stuff you needed to hear, you just lapped it up.

Now, you see it for what it was - falsehood.

But that it also opened your eyes to what was wrong in your marriage. That you love him, but you NEED certain things in a marriage. You WANT them to come from him, but if he's incapable of giving them, you'll understand, and move on. You'd rather it was with him, but you each have your own needs, and you need to discuss in MC those needs and how to obtain them.

That's the best first step toward happiness for both of you.

Please understand something. This can't happen unless you are honest with him. I don't want you to tell the truth to punish you. I want you to tell the truth so YOU can find happiness.


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## LonelyGirl1963

MountainRunner said:


> Allow me second this. Effective therapy has to start with the patient being open and honest with their counselor. The first couple of months can be hard as we are stripped down bare and exposed...It is painful, very painful. I have probably sobbed twenty gallons of tears the first couple of months as I spilled my guts and bared my soul...I can look back on it now and say it needed to be done, but when I was mired in it...It hurt...badly....but it needed to be done.
> 
> For the love of your husband and your relationship, be strong and just do it. Good luck LG and let us know how you're doing....If you want to get better and do the heavy lifting, you'll be amazed at the amount of support you will receive here. I was spoken to pretty harshly when I came aboard. Many didn't believe me...called me selfish...told me some pretty heavy things, but I kept my "eye on the ball" and did what needed to be done. I'd like to think that one of the reasons I can contribute and simultaneously receive support for my journey is that I am being honest here and that others can see I am "walking the walk".
> 
> Be sincere, honest, do what needs to be done, and you will find a world of support here on TAM and maybe even make some friends like I have.


How long have you been recovering? Has your wife been supportive through it all or have you hit some bumps in the road.

Jeeze I'm sure therapy will be hard. This has been hard for me. A lot of times I said I was going to delete this whole thing and not come back, but for some reason I keep coming back to see what everyone has to say.:|


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## LonelyGirl1963

turnera said:


> So just imagine your future, LG. You take your H to MC. While there, you tell him the truth - that you felt SO abandoned, SO unloved, SO unlovable, that when another man came around and told you the love stuff you needed to hear, you just lapped it up.
> 
> Now, you see it for what it was - falsehood.
> 
> But that it also opened your eyes to what was wrong in your marriage. That you love him, but you NEED certain things in a marriage. You WANT them to come from him, but if he's incapable of giving them, you'll understand, and move on. You'd rather it was with him, but you each have your own needs, and you need to discuss in MC those needs and how to obtain them.
> 
> That's the best first step toward happiness for both of you.
> 
> Please understand something. This can't happen unless you are honest with him. I don't want you to tell the truth to punish you. I want you to tell the truth so YOU can find happiness.


Yes I think so.


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## LonelyGirl1963

Forgot to say thank you to all of you. What's that old thing, don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the news. So true!


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## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> How long have you been recovering? Has your wife been supportive through it all or have you hit some bumps in the road.|


DDay was 12/19/15. It was "touch and go" for the first 3 days while my wife decided what she was going to do. I offered to leave, but she said staying in the guest room would be OK. I waited for her decision and did not push her to decide sooner. I told her that whatever she decided, I would honor her decision. A couple of days went by and she stated that we could remain married...

...but only if I sought help and only if I opened access to...EVERYTHING. I even gave her access to my work email and my work voicemail and told to to check it anytime she likes. I made good on that promise. We also didn't sleep together for almost 2 months. On Valentine's Day she asked me to come back to our bed (found the day interesting because ever since I've known her, she does not like Valentine's Day).

Sure we've hit some bumps, but over the usual "day to day" stuff where we disagree and sometimes we'll argue, but nothing that will end our marriage.
@turnera stated that some marriages recover and can be even stronger after an affair? I truly believe ours is an example of it. I can't explain it, but I feel more in love with her and more connected with her than ever before. The therapy is allowing me to rethink some things and more importantly to trust....That was a biggie...especially when just the other day the OW made contact via email asking me to come back to her. Scared the beejesus outta me but I made a commitment to trust my wife...so I told her about it immediately. It went OK and now I feel better than ever about being open to her.

Throughout this whole thing...I have made a commitment to be honest and open...and ya know what? It is "liberating". I can now go about the day not having to worry about what I said, did or not do...stuff like that. Know what I mean?


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## turnera

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> How long have you been recovering? Has your wife been supportive through it all or have you hit some bumps in the road.
> 
> Jeeze I'm sure therapy will be hard. This has been hard for me. A lot of times I said I was going to delete this whole thing and not come back, but for some reason I keep coming back to see what everyone has to say.:|


It's human nature, LG. Not a single one of us wants to hear people tell us what we're doing wrong. And our first response is to FIGHT BACK! BTDT. The first two years I was at forums, I was like, are y'all crazy? It's my H who's wrong, not me!

And then I stopped fighting. And started listening. And started hearing the wisdom from people who'd traveled before me.

That's where you are at, now. Letting go of the fighting. Stopping to listen. Seeing the wisdom. And, not wanting to, but FORCING myself to, do what the advice told me to do. Because I trusted them to know better than I did, for this problem.

And they were right. SO right.

Even then, it took ME many more years before I did the scary stuff. You're doing much better than me. I have high hopes for you two.


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## EleGirl

LG, the OM has been living in your mother's home. I assume you inherited it , so your mother is not living there. Does your husband know that someone has been living in that house?


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## LonelyGirl1963

EleGirl said:


> LG, the OM has been living in your mother's home. I assume you inherited it , so your mother is not living there. Does your husband know that someone has been living in that house?


Yes he does. Again, never questions it. My lies have been by omission because he never asks.


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## MountainRunner

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Again, never questions it.* My lies have been by omission* because he never asks.


I like this...This is called "owning your sh*t". You're on your way my friend.


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## LonelyGirl1963

AnonMale22 said:


> I'm so happy everyone is coalescing toward a positive outcome. I'm not an emotional guy - pretty typical guy - but since a serious medical diagnosis a few years ago I've gotten more and more in touch with emotions. And I have no ideas HOW THE F*CK you women go through life feeling all this sh*t. Wow - what a heavy burden


Because we are the nurturers and we have to be strong to do things like give birth, help our elderly parents to the other side when that time comes, help our spouses with their challenges and do it with a hug and a smile.

And thank you for your help by the way. Sorry to hear of your health issues, so please take care of yourself. ((hugs)). Sending you some good energy too!


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## LonelyGirl1963

Personal said:


> Speaking for myself, my life is pretty good and I've done exactly that, and came here to hang out because I liked a number of the posters and many of the discussions that happen here.
> 
> My wife and I have a terrific and much varied sex life so I sometimes look up what we do or look up new stuff as well, which is how I stumbled upon talkaboutmarriage.com


Good to know. I have since heard from others who say the same thing. I have to admit I'm surprised by it. I was a little defensive when I made that statement as well. Thank your for posting.:smile2:


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## lovelyblue

LonelyGirl1963 said:


> Yes he does. Again, never questions it. My lies have been by omission because he never asks.


Maybe he trust you.
or
Maybe he just done't give a f**k.

IMO most men don't want any other man near their partners..Your husband behavior is very odd.


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