# The not knowing aspect



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Hi folks,

Some of you know me very well. After reading this you may conclude that I have no business being in the CWI forum. I just don't know how to approach this.

After 11 years of struggling with a BPD wife (4 years married), I've decided not to pursue the marriage any further and go ahead with the separation/divorce. She left our marital home 4 days ago (not for the first time btw). It was her decision for the nth time and I'm pretty determined to not end up begging her to come back. I'm a self-diagnosed "nice-guy"+"rescuer"+idiot by the way.

I must admit, I've been a fairly inconsistently suspicious partner over the years. Due to her BPD traits which presented themselves as her complete lack of respect for me and our relationship, I have always found it difficult to fully trust her. Having said that, over the years I have never gotten any hard evidence of cheating on her part, but my gut feelings have always been quite volatile. I've done some snooping at various points in our relationship, but again, nothing concrete was found.

To be fair, I'm almost sure (almost) that my wife was at least physically loyal to for the entirety of our marriage (not sure about before still).

4 days ago when we were having our very last conversation about separating, I asked her if she was planning to date while separated (something I would've never thought I would end up asking the love of my life). She said she's not sure what I mean by dating, but probably yes. I was heart broken. I then foolishly asked if she was going to have sex. She got very defensive and said "if that's what you want to hear, then yes I might have sex". This absolutely crushed me inside.

2 days later, she went and got a new phone + new phone number. She proceeded to erase all the recent calls/texts from her previous phone and brought it for me saying "it doesn't work anymore, I can't charge it". I checked the phone and it works/charges just fine. Strangely enough, she cancelled the "Caller ID" service off her old phone too, so whoever calls gets listed as "private" now. She also said I'm free to tell everyone that "she's a *****" if they asked why our marriage ended!  I said I would never do such a thing.

I'm working on empowering myself to finally end this toxic relationship and have been making some decent progress thanks to the TAM friends in the "Private Members Forum". 

I however, can't shake off the crushing mind movies and the uncertainty about her fidelity. 

I'm still financially helping her with a lot of things and would like to make this divorce a very amicable one, but I sometimes think the only reason I'm doing that is because I still consider her a dear friend and want the best for her. 

Now I don't think I would want the best for her if she actually ran to another guy's bed right away. My self-esteem has almost completely vanished thanks to over a decade of emotional/verbal abuse and this is one last thing I simply don't plan on backing off from.

I really don't want to snoop/spy. Every time I do that I end up obsessing about her. I want to move on, but I also want to know/guess the truth. Can't rely on her being honest with me. She's a BPD and very unpredictable (specially since her brother died in a car accident 7 months ago)

How do I cope with this?

Thanks


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## jaykay007 (Sep 7, 2010)

I have been there dude, 2 years ago. Read my posts and you might get some perspective.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Clearly the idea of sleeping with others isn't novel to her. She wouldn't have to cleanse her old phone if there wasn't anything on it either.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

jaykay007 said:


> I have been there dude, 2 years ago. Read my posts and you might get some perspective.


Just finished reading all your posts. OUCH! Glad you came out of it financially intact. That won't be the case with me. I'll be losing more than half of my assets. 

This is why I'm not getting past the suspicions. If she's being unfaithful, I can't allow her to live a comfortable life on my dime. If she's just taking some space and waiting till we actually divorce then I can tolerate helping her ease into her new life. I still care for her (if she's being truthful).


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

snap said:


> Clearly the idea of sleeping with others isn't novel to her. She wouldn't have to cleanse her old phone if there wasn't anything on it either.


That's what's killing me. This is a woman who told me I'm the love of her life and she would be completely lost without me as recently as 2 weeks ago.

She went through the trouble of getting a whole new phone and new phone number (not even transferring the old number) 2 days after separation. She was very proud of it too. I don't know if she was just trying to piss me off or satisfy her own ego, but it sure feels fishy.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

She had someone lined up at the very least. Most likely though the affair has been ongoing for a while: she has tested the waters before diving.

You'll know who he is very soon. She'll claim they hooked up after you split.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

You still re a "nice guy" man. Sorry about that, but I did all the same things for YEARS. That is, until she served me with the papers.
You can live a smoother life if you only date single women a few times and then move on.
Works for me.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

I know I'm still a nice guy. Nice guy syndrome is not something people can just jump out of.

I'm set on ending my marriage, but I don't want to help my wife ease into her new life if she's already seeing others. I have had no sleep for 2 days and have no idea what to do.

Do I even have enough to suspect anything? I'm such a mess.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Just finished reading all your posts. OUCH! Glad you came out of it financially intact. That won't be the case with me. I'll be losing more than half of my assets.
> 
> This is why I'm not getting past the suspicions. If she's being unfaithful, I can't allow her to live a comfortable life on my dime. If she's just taking some space and waiting till we actually divorce then I can tolerate helping her ease into her new life. I still care for her (if she's being truthful).


All speculation but does knowing she cheated makes a difference in asset settlement in your state?

As for getting over, I hated my xWW on dday and I still hate her today. Each time she comes to my mind it's with hate so I don't miss the good times we had. Hope that helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm sorry to say that she's going to get plenty of your assets, whether you like it or not.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

keko, no I live in a no-fault province (canada).

I know what you mean about hate and dday. I know hate helps people get closure. Maybe that's what I'm looking for.

I just don't know what to do about it.

She's driving the nice expensive car I bought her as an anniversary gift and has taken both keys so I have no access to it. 

Even though I had no intention of spying on her, I can't help but wish I had the keys to put a VAR in her car. I did it last time she left and it actually helped me find out that she wasn't unfaithful, so I did everything possible and convinced her to reconcile. 

This time, I feel different. She's a BPD and no matter what I do, she will always run away. Looking at it from that perspective has helped me decide that divorce (which she wants) is probably inevitable, but I still deeply care about her and want her to have the space she needs. I also wanted to possibly help her with her BPD if she was willing. She makes much less than I do and life won't be easy for her. 

I'm just not willing to financially help her seek other relationships. I'm badly devastated by this separation. It would be very cruel of her to cheat. 

My gut feeling is telling me she's being unfaithful. Is the gut feeling always right?


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I'm sorry to say that she's going to get plenty of your assets, whether you like it or not.


I know.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

So sorry you are coming to this... 

I'm also in Canada.
Do you have a legal separation in place?
Check out the marital property act for your province.
It's most likely that everything is 50\50 if bought after the marriage.
So is the debt. Doesn't matter if you bought the car as a gift, it's 50% yours. What you need to know is probably on the net, too. Even a sample form. Just needs a lawyer's review.

Writing all this out in a draft and giving it to her might help her see the finality of it all. This is what she wants? This isn't all about freedom for her to do whatever she wants. Reality check.

Is she still wearing her wedding rings? 

I hate to say this, but once you seperate, unless you agree NO dating, it becomes none of your business. It's not "cheating" really.. if you have discussed that you will date other people and are separating with the intent of divorce. Sorry, but that's how it plays.
It sucks. Either tell her NO dating and work on the marriage, or know that she is dating.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm usually all for investigating to get the truth

but in your case if it helps you get away from this woman I'm all for just going straight to a lawyer and going dark on her. The amount of abuse you've suffered through is more than enough to justify divorce, do you really need that extra straw of infidelity to break the camel's back?


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

synthetic said:


> She's driving the nice expensive car I bought her as an anniversary gift and has taken both keys so I have no access to it.


Tell her to give you a key. Don't ask, tell. It's joint property.

If she refuses, tow it away.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I am going to give you the skinny, brutal and honest.

First, separation for many people means no rules, no committment, etc, separation = no spouse to be responsible. Separation means I can screw whomever I want. In counseling I am dealing with a guy similar to you. He separated last year from his wife. She immediately got into an A. This young guy is devastated. He keeps asking me why did she do this? The Veteran brought his father with him last time and asked me again. I said, you told me that your wife did not want to separate, you set down no agreement and you left. She begged you to stay and you walked out on her and the baby. In this case she felt abandoned. The guy tried to commit suicide and I had his father commit him a few weeks ago. Separation to many means I am free to pursue whatever.

Second, you said you are done with the marriage. Then get over it. You are flip flopping. Don't. Move on my man, move on.

Third, she has BPD. Did you really expect something other than her responding, "yes I might have sex". Dude, you said you are done with the marriage. Nothing she says or does should matter. 

Fouth, you don't want the marriage to end. Read your OP. I have a feeling that you want her to come running back pleading, crying, begging, saying what an arse I am. It will not happen guy. You have a better chance of hitting a unicorn on the highway then having her come running back to you.

Fifth, decide what terms you want for D. You being the nice guy give her what she wants. If not then get a shark of a lawyer. Listen my friend. My sister died of cancer when I was in Iraq in 2009. She was a sweetheart. in 2007 she D, her husband. He was a body builder and got nasty on steroids. Here my sister was dying of cancer and he started to beat her. When she D him, he got almost everything, a new truck, alimoney (yep-he got alimoney). She had to move in with my parents. All because her lawyer liked her husband. I said it correctly. My sister's attorney liked her husband and talked my sister into giving him whatever he wanted. Go figure. MY FRIEND, DO WHAT YOU MUST, BUT Don'T GIVE AWAY THE FARM.

Sixth, she is not your dear friend. She does not want the best for you. Why on God's green earth do you want the best for her? I get it that you don't want to burn her. Don't. But buddy, she is not your dear sweet friend.

Seventh, (repeating) you said you are done with the marriage. Read your post. Stop doing this to yourself man. Move on, move on, MOVE ON.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

so in summary

move on


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> so in summary
> 
> move on


+Lawyer up and get the legal D wheels moving. Taking real action will help you feel less out of control/lost.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

I am divorced from a personality disordered woman. With time, one heals.
She probably has cheated, as mot PDs do.
But, as another poster suggested, focus on divorcing and getting out asap.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why the obsession now to find out if she's cheated? Where is this coming from? If s he has told you she wants a divorce and separation, let her go.

She may have cheated. She may not have. W/o any concrete proof, you will never know for sure. 

You have described this relationship as being toxic, with her leaving several times, that have deal with a lot of emotiona/verbal abuse from her. Why do you care what she does now if she wants out?

Let her go.



snap said:


> Clearly the idea of sleeping with others isn't novel to her.


Eh, I don't think that's fair. He asked her straight up if she planned to date or ever sleep with someone again and she was honest with him--just as he is prob going to date again and have sex with someone else. It's inevitable--there are 7 billion people on the planet after all. 



synthetic said:


> . I know hate helps people get closure. Maybe that's what I'm looking for.


Hate/hatred does not help people get closure. If anything, it keeps them paralyzed and unable to move on. It's the exact oppsite of moving on/getting closure. It's not a good thing. 

Take the legal measures to separate your lives and move forward. Also, therapy is a good idea cause it sounds like you've dealt with a tumultous relationship for the past decade. No doubt you've got some scars and issues that stem from that.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

If I'm not mistaken, in Canada, if the divorce is filed on grounds of adultery, the waiting period is waived, is that correct? If that is the case, then yes, you should hire a PI, get your proof, then divorce her as soon as possible. You really need to get this toxic woman out of your life, like yesterday.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

LM does bring up a practical reason

I would ask your lawyer and maybe hire a PI if it can set you free quicker


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If she's going to give herself the luxury of acting like a single woman then she should be paying for that lifestyle NOT YOU! Cancel all joint credit cards, pull half the money from joint bank accounts, if she denies you access to the car you bought her then proceed to call the finance company that has the lien on the car and inform them that you can no longer make the payments on the car and that they can repossess it at their leisure. The point is that she should see that you are no longer going to provide the benefits of being married to you while she is out playing single girl.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> If she's going to give herself the luxury of acting like a single woman then she should be paying for that lifestyle NOT YOU! Cancel all joint credit cards, pull half the money from joint bank accounts, if she denies you access to the car you bought her then proceed to call the finance company that has the lien on the car and inform them that you can no longer make the payments on the car and that they can repossess it at their leisure. The point is that she should see that you are no longer going to provide the benefits of being married to you while she is out playing single girl.


:iagree:

She is going to cake eat as long as possible. She wants him to finance her single girl status. It's time for her to face reality.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> She is going to cake eat as long as possible.


She can't cake-eat if he puts a stop to it. 

He has said himself in his posts that he wants her to be ok and wants to help her out financially so if he continues to do that, it's on him.

It almost sounds like he wants to find out she is cheating so that he can use that as an escape clause to not help her out financially. And that's fine and all but, IMO, I think it's simpler than that: If she wants a divorce, he should accept that and stop helping her out at all. He shouldn't be waiting around for a shoe to drop or hoping for the absolute worst in order to disentangle himself from he. It's... almost masochistic (or sadistic?) in a way.

I have been in this type of toxic relationship before. It's like I wanted to hear more and more of how bad it really was so that could use that an excuse for wanting out. And then I'd learn something and I'd want something else, something more to prove it was really real and bad. Does that make sense? Maybe I can't articulate what I'm thinking but anyway, synthetic, I've been there before and the thing is, you need to take her at face value: she wants out, she's not willing to work on things, let her go. Stop waiting for Something Very Bad/Worse to happen she the writing is already on the wall. It's not healthy to keep yourself in that state of limbo.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

One other thing. *GO DARK* as much as it is practically possible and on those occasions that you must deal with her, make your comments business like - short and to the point.

It's time for you to start a hard *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559* and *The 180 degree rules*.

Consider this *your emotional detox program*.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> I am divorced from a personality disordered woman. With time, one heals.
> She probably has cheated, as mot PDs do.
> But, as another poster suggested, focus on divorcing and getting out asap.


I agree with Liam. Move on, my friend. 

My cheater spouse got caught this time, but I was naive to the signs of cheating and now that I look back on my 20 year marriage, there are red flags of prior affairs. Huge red flags.

I.E. condoms in his gym bag, periodically starting fights to leave the house. These would happen every few years, likely when he was in an affair. 

I thought he was just being moody. 

Frequent men's only outings. And, boy's night's out. 

In the affair in which he was caught, I found he was using those camping trips for trips with OW, and the boy's night's out were really being with his girl night's out. 

Move on, my friend. 

I have researched this extensively. Most marriages in which their is infidelity end in divorce. 

They may limp along for awhile, but they almost always fail. Only a small percentage survive past five years. 

Why wait. Move on, now. The signs of cheating are there, but your wife is just good and being deceptive, IMO. Just like my husband.

The only way I found out was that someone who knew, sent me anonymous photographs and emails. Otherwise, I would still be unaware.


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