# Why are people attracted to Narcissists?



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

In the grand scheme of all of the ways that relationships, marital, dating, sexual can go off the tracks, I've been thinking a lot lately about why it is that people with NPD, who basically start eroding a relationship from the moment it starts, never, ever seem to find themselves alone or ostracized.

Found this article, and apparently science wants to know too. https://psychcentral.com/blog/new-study-explains-why-we-find-narcissists-so-attractive/

I dated a woman whose ex-husband had NPD. The man used his young daughter as a prop to consistently harm his ex-wife ... even 6 years after their divorce. By her own account, she had adored him, and post divorce, was terrified of him. He had hauled her into court no fewer than 10 times over those 6 years. He was an attorney, so he represented himself. To further cement his complete authority, he would in turn sue any attorney that represented his ex. I REALLY wanted to meet this guy ... but that never happened.

I'm sure folks here have had brushes with it, or knows someone who has it. For me, I can smell'em a mile away, and I fundamentally have an aversion to Narcissists of either gender. I'm sure most people who would recount interacting with one, likely feels the same. Nonetheless I find it fascinating that given their need for recognition, acknowledgement, adoration, or victimizing ... they never suffer for a lack of people and orbiters around them willing to take on that role. Even smart, well adjusted people.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

Why are people attracted to narcissists? 

I will hazard a guess. Most the narcissistic people I know initially appear to be very self confident and out-going. Their true NPD doesn't become apparent until later on.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Men and women attach themselves to Narcissists because they {the Narcissist} are adept at manipulation, having, displaying the fine _Art of Salesmanship_.

Narcissists have a good measure of Charisma, Chutzpah, sometimes Gravitas. 

Many of the more successful ones are, in appearance, not so in deed, attractive,.

They have a powerful [natural] chemistry set. They can attract the opposite sex with covalent bonding, {covert}, not so much as polar ionic, {at odds} bonding.





[THM]- SunCMars


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

What the article says is this: "Narcissists get dates because it looks like they’re TRYING." They put such a big effort into winning you over (at the start!) by any means possible. You can spot them a mile away once you understand it.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

blazer prophet said:


> Why are people attracted to narcissists?
> 
> I will hazard a guess. Most the narcissistic people I know initially appear to be very self confident and out-going. Their true NPD doesn't become apparent until later on.


See, I'm wondering if people are attracted to Narcissists either because they demonstrate traits they wish to emulate, admire, or fundamentally find desirable? And in my history of knowing folks with NPD, even after they had demonstrated untold levels of d0uchebaggery, those who found themselves pulled into their orbit, could not pull themselves out. As I indicated, the orbiters or partners were often people whom I would not put in the category of low self esteem, or weak minded. 

So I'm wondering if the people that stick around are looking for something from the Narcissist that either fulfills them, or they hope rubs off on them?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'll also put out there that I have been accused of being a Narcissist in the past. 

I assured that person that I didn't need theirs or anyone elses acknowledgment or adoration to recognize my own awesomeness.

That response was well received ...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Laurentium said:


> What the article says is this: "Narcissists get dates because it looks like they’re TRYING." They put such a big effort into winning you over (at the start!) by any means possible. You can spot them a mile away once you understand it.


Yeah, but I've also seen this behavior with trauma and low self-esteem. I dated a VERY attractive woman who went all in on winning me over, and once she had, she began to sabotage. She outright said at one point, "I don't deserve you." And she believed it ... which I found tragic.

I get that often these things don't become self evident until you are in the thick of it. But I am wondering if anyone here DID make that realization, what did you do? Did you extricate yourself from the relationship (friendly, lover, or other wise)? Or did you hang in and just modify your own behavior?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I too had an ex. that was previously married to an extreme narcissist for 18 years.

He had a Phd in physics and as such he could command an arrogant and condescending posture which made it difficult to stand up against.

although appallingly abusive, he had almost complete control over her.
she was simply under his spell.

it was only after he put her in the hospital that she finally realized she had to leave and did.
he continued to stalk her.

even years after she left him, she was drawn to him.
once, i had to talk her down into going to see him.

yes, they have a very powerful grip over their victims, especially as you say, when they are accomplished and clever.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Narcissists probably exist on a spectrum like most things dont they? Dont see it being a binary sort of thing. As long as thats true I think most narcissists probably arent as extreme as the ex-husband lawyer. They can mask and hide it as confidence and self-assuredness. In those cases people just think "that person has it going on"?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

SunCMars said:


> Men and women attach themselves to Narcissists because they {the Narcissist} are adept at manipulation, having, displaying the fine _Art of Salesmanship_.
> 
> Narcissists have a good measure of Charisma, Chutzpah, sometimes Gravitas.
> 
> ...



So ... it's all about electrons. Narcissists got a lotta electrons ... I'm down with that.










Edited to add: There is an obvious and glaring example of what you describe that I know we could discuss and contrast, but probably shouldn't. I'll also make clear for anyone reading that my post wasn't intended as a veiled reference to that individual. Yes, I'm of course talking about Charlie Sheen ... not pictured above. That's John Stamos.
I'm always intrigued by how people find themselves attracted to toxic.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Middle of Everything said:


> Narcissists probably exist on a spectrum like most things dont they? Dont see it being a binary sort of thing. As long as thats true I think most narcissists probably arent as extreme as the ex-husband lawyer. They can mask and hide it as confidence and self-assuredness. In those cases people just think "that person has it going on"?


I think you are probably spot on with this. My wife suspects her mom has NPD. The woman definitely demonstrates some traits ... but doesn't leave me with that really "off" feeling I've gotten from a number of NPD'rs historically. I'll have to get back to you on this ... I'm flying down to spend a week with the in-laws next week.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Who are these people supposedly attracted to narcissists? Are they mostly male or female? These are important questions. 



> Jauk set up a study involving 90 people who participated in a series of speed-dating meet-ups. (Speed-dating, though lame, acts as a good showcase to gather people’s immediate reactions to potential dating partners.)
> 
> Every participant was evaluated to determine their level of personal narcissism. They were also shown pictures of the other speed-dating participants and asked to rank their physical attractiveness. Jauk’s subjects then went through several rounds of speed dating (resulting in almost 700 “dates”) and then were asked to rate the people they interacted with.
> 
> ...


I see. So it's both men and women. I've read the study and it doesn't sound like the participants actually met in person and interacted with each other. It sounds like they were just shown pictures and told to choose which people they found physically attractive without knowing much of anything about their disposition. I think the study more implies that attractive people are more likely to be narcissistic. Speed dating is all about physical appearance after all. And the study talks about speed dating.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

Deejo said:


> See, I'm wondering if people are attracted to Narcissists either because they demonstrate traits they wish to emulate, admire, or fundamentally find desirable? And in my history of knowing folks with NPD, even after they had demonstrated untold levels of d0uchebaggery, those who found themselves pulled into their orbit, could not pull themselves out. As I indicated, the orbiters or partners were often people whom I would not put in the category of low self esteem, or weak minded.
> 
> So I'm wondering if the people that stick around are looking for something from the Narcissist that either fulfills them, or they hope rubs off on them?



This is just a theory but maybe those people enjoy the chase, thrive on drama, find it interesting, doesn't want to be a "quitter." Maybe they would be bored with someone who simply loves and adores them. I've seen this with competitive people. They like to "win" at relationships so are always trying to win their partner. But if their partner is NPD they'll never win. The NPD partner has to be the one to end it because the other partner won't ever quit.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Agree with SunCmars and jorgene posts above. 

Narcissists feel it is all about them. They believe
they are fantastic people. You are the one with 
the problem not them. During a relationship with a 
narcissist they will make you feel so. They have done 
so much and you are lucky to be with them. How dare 
you even think about leaving them. If you think about 
leaving they can turn on their charm and manipulation 
and pull you right back in. 

It is all about them. You are the one with the issues
and they have the ability and charm to make you 
think so. Unless you realize it even friends and family 
can not convince you otherwise.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Well, in the case of the study cited, a group of 90 people, presuming 45 individuals of each sex, and and about 700 dates.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Deejo said:


> Well, in the case of the study cited, a group of 90 people, presuming 45 individuals of each sex, and and about 700 dates.


Speed dating is too shallow and focused on physical appearance. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19558447


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Confidence is attractive.

I also think Narcissists want to be attractive so they work very hard on things to make them attractive. It feeds their egos.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Bc they are super super charming and they know how to act in a way that they specifically know what you want/need. They are true con artists.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

They know how to lay on the charm and they are very good at reading people. They purposefully choose someone who they know they can manipulate easily. And they work very slowly...it's the boiling frog...you don't notice how much things have changed until it's way too late. 

I'm saying this as someone who almost married someone with BPD with severe narcissistic tendencies. He was SO fun and loving in the beginning. It wasn't until I was in love that he started to change...and he changed so slowly that I didn't notice it at first.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

How many betrayed spouses on Tam have
listened to and believed their wayward spouses
lies and excuses ? I cheated because of this and that.
Even if the wayward spouse said nothing before cheating.

Text messages from someone of the opposite sex at 
strange times. Their just a friend and nothing is ever said,
for some reason. Weakness or just blind love and admiration ?

Love and blame shifting ( its your fault not mine ) your wrong
not me. 

Imagine that type of crap on steroids . 

Equal Narcissists


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

BruceBanner said:


> Speed dating is too shallow and focused on physical appearance.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19558447


Keep hoping to find a paper on the study itself, but nothing yet. Found more information here. It is interesting that once again, 'science' is pretty much telling us what we already know.

https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/narcissists-get-more-dates.html


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I think part of it is because we diagnose everything now. "He's got a big ego and is a jerk - NPD!!!!"

A very TINY portion of the population is actually diagnosable as NPD. But there aqree a lot of jerks, and people can't tell the difference.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> I think part of it is because we diagnose everything now. "He's got a big ego and is a jerk - NPD!!!!"
> 
> A very TINY portion of the population is actually diagnosable as NPD. But there aqree a lot of jerks, and people can't tell the difference.


Yep, lots of people are just *******s.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

So again, take the diagnosis out of the equation. I don't suppose we even need to qualify it as NPD.

Doesn't it leave you wondering how so many egotistical, self-serving, emotionally stunted people are in demand in the world of relationships? Even if we confine to short term flings ... I just find it amazing that these people either male, or female, who upon examination have these GIANT, glaring, gaps in their make-up ... huge swaths of the population fundamentally find desirable.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Deejo said:


> So again, take the diagnosis out of the equation. I don't suppose we even need to qualify it as NPD.
> 
> Doesn't it leave you wondering how so many egotistical, self-serving, emotionally stunted people are in demand in the world of relationships? Even if we confine to short term flings ... I just find it amazing that these people either male, or female, who upon examination have these GIANT, glaring, gaps in their make-up ... huge swaths of the population fundamentally find desirable.


They know how to play the game. And since results are more important to them than "being themselves " they'll adopt what they need to to get what they want.

Add to that that for all our decrying of superficiality and fakeness, we statistically continue to choose based on the same shallow stuff.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Not to condone narcissistic tendencies, but at least initially, the narcissist will do what it takes.

When I hear the socially inept confrontational person complain about not getting dates and then REFUSE to make the necessary changes because "I'm not gonna be something I'm not," I roll my eyes when they then complain more.

Narcissists are to be avoided and berated. However, we need to start looking deeper and upping our game lol


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Whatever the source personality it's a given that persons like "success" and a large group will "orbit up" on the grand success ladder.

The degrees of success depend greatly upon the size of the pond the whole bunch are playing in but that's the attraction in whatever flavor of the day is.

The harm often made public, or the private harm, is those orbiting don't quit the association when extreme / harmful traits show through cracks, until they themselves are suffering. 

One has to be independent themselves in any relationship. That is a fact.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> I think part of it is because we diagnose everything now. "He's got a big ego and is a jerk - NPD!!!!"
> 
> A very TINY portion of the population is actually diagnosable as NPD. But there aqree a lot of jerks, and people can't tell the difference.


On another forum I go to sometimes, I've talked about the issues with my STBX and every time someone calls him a narcissist. He's not at all a narcissist. Like I said, I almost married one...he was diagnosed by a professional, and having lived with him, I speak narcissism fluently. My STBX has none of those qualities. But because he has done something horrible to me, he gets labeled as a narcissist. 

Even after I mention how he has done literally EVERYTHING I've asked him to do during our separation/divorce, and even stepped up to the plate to care for me during 2 surgeries after we separated he still gets accused of it. He's a nice guy who was confused and made a very poor choice on how to deal with the turmoil in his life. That's not narcissism.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

notmyjamie said:


> On another forum I go to sometimes, I've talked about the issues with my STBX and every time someone calls him a narcissist. He's not at all a narcissist. Like I said, I almost married one...he was diagnosed by a professional, and having lived with him, I speak narcissism fluently. My STBX has none of those qualities. But because he has done something horrible to me, he gets labeled as a narcissist.
> 
> Even after I mention how he has done literally EVERYTHING I've asked him to do during our separation/divorce, and even stepped up to the plate to care for me during 2 surgeries after we separated he still gets accused of it. He's a nice guy who was confused and made a very poor choice on how to deal with the turmoil in his life. That's not narcissism.


I'm not familiar with your story, but I want you to know that I really appreciate this post.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

They treat you like royalty in the beginning. They make you think you are getting everything you didnt get from your last relationship, and like someone mentioned, the boiling frog analogy is spot on. It happens gradually enough you dont catch on until its too late. Its rough for someone like me who tends to fall very fast in the beginning. I think I have finally learned what to watch for so I am hoping as I wade back into the dating pool, that I can avoid them this time.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I'll ask my wife when she wakes up. See what she says.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Deejo said:


> In the grand scheme of all of the ways that relationships, marital, dating, sexual can go off the tracks, I've been thinking a lot lately about why it is that people with NPD, who basically start eroding a relationship from the moment it starts, never, ever seem to find themselves alone or ostracized.
> 
> Found this article, and apparently science wants to know too. https://psychcentral.com/blog/new-study-explains-why-we-find-narcissists-so-attractive/
> 
> ...


Ive asked myself the same question so many times, because i see this pattern in women romance books (harlequin and any of the kind) where the hero having NPD is usual and mostly expected.

I think its related to the excitment, because we are almost all NPD during teenage years (aroung level 4 in the 12 levels of personality theory), and the superfitial excitment offered from the other person (level 4) remind us of the excitment of that time where everything was new and fresh, while adulthood is real and responsible. The problem is this person had some issue wich made him/her not develop his/her personality like it was suposed to normally happen, and, as there always is the possibility of dumbing down, you may harm your own personality going back (down) in the layers of personality by admiring/living with/having relations/conversationd with said person, if you are not observant and alert enough.

Thats a part of the fog, btw: harming your inteligence/personality for awhile.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Deejo said:


> See, I'm wondering if people are attracted to Narcissists either because they demonstrate traits they wish to emulate, admire, or fundamentally find desirable? And in my history of knowing folks with NPD, even after they had demonstrated untold levels of d0uchebaggery, those who found themselves pulled into their orbit, could not pull themselves out. As I indicated, the orbiters or partners were often people whom I would not put in the category of low self esteem, or weak minded.
> 
> So I'm wondering if the people that stick around are looking for something from the Narcissist that either fulfills them, or they hope rubs off on them?


I've been with a lot of narcissists and I do think it has something to do with how I see myself. I have very low self esteem and i think i've tried to prop it up by being with guys who are popular and very confident. I can be weak minded sometimes or I just sometimes don't have a strong opinion on everything. I'm more of a follower so i think i've gravitated to strong leader types. Sometimes those strong leaders led me to do bad things. Now my husband is a strong leader but he's also a follower (of Christ) and I'm happy that he leads toward good. I'm also very introverted so a strong personality and extrovert is more what i like.

Please dont' think that I just am some kind of stupid weak woman. I read a lot and think about everything a lot. I also read a lot about different movements like women's issues and what's going on all over the world.

I don't know, just my thoughts on it.


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## Vigi (Nov 20, 2019)

I thought my husband's attitude when we met was arrogance at first. Years later, I realized how selfish he was. Didn't buy gifts, not even for the kids. Then, the kids grew up and it's me and him. We split for 2 years out of 30 but too late bc he has gotten much worse. He's demeaning, and mean. He treats me one way in doors but slowly family are figuring it out. He's mean. He lies and has betrayed my trust for the last time. I'm done. The only reason why I am eith him is bc I have 0 income. My own prison with a narcissistic psychopath.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vigi said:


> I thought my husband's attitude when we met was arrogance at first. Years later, I realized how selfish he was. Didn't buy gifts, not even for the kids. Then, the kids grew up and it's me and him. We split for 2 years out of 30 but too late bc he has gotten much worse. He's demeaning, and mean. He treats me one way in doors but slowly family are figuring it out. He's mean. He lies and has betrayed my trust for the last time. I'm done. The only reason why I am eith him is bc I have 0 income. My own prison with a narcissistic psychopath.


What attracted you to him at first?

I know you see him for what he is now but what did he appear to be when you gave yourself to him?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Thinking of this and seeing that the of the traits I see is that they are willing to gamble all and are willing to risk losing it all. Because if they don't then they know they have someone who will be their subject.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

My previous girlfriend was a narcissist. It was attracted to her because she made me feel really special, at first, and she was also a looker. I thought to myself, "I am so lucky!". But....then it goes bad. Like really really bad. You go from being the person they love and admire to literally everything in their life somehow being your fault. You stay in it longer than you should because you keep thinking you can somehow get back to that place you were in the beginning. But you can't. I put up with a lot of drama and crazy behavior because I am pretty laid back and non confrontational. I finally left when in every argument she kept saying she could do better. I was like, "Ok", and I was done. But a word to the wise. Once you leave a narcissist. Never engage them again. They will do everything in their power to try and ruin whatever happiness you have in your life. Its been over two years and even now on occasion she throws a fit and texts the entire town every time she sees me out, looking for sympathy. But...I can't say anything...because acknowledging her existence only gives her what she is seeking. Attention. When dealing with a narcissist. Block them and move on and be happy. For those married to one I don't have any answers for that!


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## Vigi (Nov 20, 2019)

Yes. I'm always the one at fault. Never takes accountability. Even when I proven it, he said he didn't remember. Convenient. 
Married way to long. But you see, I have very sick since January. He does not care. His issues trump mine. 
Lost my business. Lost our home. Lost pretty much everything and I can't get rid of the leech bc we live on his disability. Sux!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Vigi said:


> Yes. I'm always the one at fault. Never takes accountability. Even when I proven it, he said he didn't remember. Convenient.
> Married way to long. But you see, I have very sick since January. He does not care. His issues trump mine.
> Lost my business. Lost our home. Lost pretty much everything and I can't get rid of the leech bc we live on his disability. Sux!


Narcissism is a fairly specific personality disorder with the following symptoms:


> Symptoms
> Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:
> 
> 
> ...


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...onality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

It can be related to other personality disorders like Machiavellianism and psychopathy, known together as the "Dark Triad:" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

However, they need to be diagnosed, are fairly rare, they can be amplified our temporarily brought out by stress or PTSD without you having a "true" personality disorder - meaning, treat the trigger and the symptoms vanish.

In short, it could be that your husband is a narcissist... or it could be he's just a lazy *******.


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

I think I found the answer to it. But it is the question that needs rephrasing. Rather than asking why are people attracted to narcissists, we should ask "why are people falling for it".

The simple answer to why are people attracted to narcissists is because they are bleeping brilliant! They spent their entire life figuring out how to manipulate others to gain personal advantages. Thats quiet brilliant and attractive IMHO...


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## Ann-onoymous (Jan 8, 2020)

I think my husband is one. He was one thoughtful, considerate, sweet, charming person when I met him and as soon as he knew I was invested more and more of the real him kept coming out. It is three years in and finally to the point where I’m realizing I can’t ever be happy because it is all his needs and feelings. Mine are never valid. Everything is always my fault even when it’s his own ****ty behaviours. I don’t think many people long term can accept that. It is a progression, until it drives you miserable. They will be lovable in other ways to keep you hooked when you know they lack respect and consideration. It takes someone very codependent to accept it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

sa58 said:


> Agree with SunCmars and jorgene posts above.
> 
> Narcissists feel it is all about them. They believe
> they are fantastic people. You are the one with
> ...


*If a narcissist truly loves you, there is little that they won't do for you materially or otherwise! Just as long as the one they care for or is trying to impress does not question or criticize them or their choices in any way!

But when their love for you runs its course, they are more than ready to ditch you with equivocation and to move on to new conquests!*


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I have dated a few.

They are absolutely intoxicating in the first few weeks of the relationship. 

What is normally sparks in a new relationship are full-on fireworks.

Then the facade begins to wear thin, and hope becomes the enemy...in that hope will make you think you can return to what once was.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> I have dated a few.
> 
> They are absolutely intoxicating in the first few weeks of the relationship.
> 
> ...


Same. Maybe two or threeish over the years when single.

Typically they're insanely hot, physically. They're so into themselves that they're very fit, dress very sexy, and are devastatingly charming and confident. They light up a room when they walk in, and are instantly the center of attention. That's very attractive.

They also easily just go for what they want. If that's you, they throw heaps of attention your way. Compliments, flirtatiousness, and basically they drag you off to bed sometimes minutes or hours after meeting you. And they're pretty awesome in the sack.

For example, once when I was 20-ish, I was at a club and this super hot girl in a miniskirt just walked up to me while I was talking to some friends and planted a kiss on me. Drug me onto the dance floor. Ended up at her "friends" cabin in the woods that night. Turned out her "friend" was her ex boyfriend. Well, that's what she said later, anyway. Next day she bounces out of bed, makes me a big breakfast totally naked while dancing around to music. We stay in bed all day until I have to come back into town for work. She calls me like 5 times a day over the next few days, she sends me flowers at work, sends me her lingerie at home. She's at my place every night, and we go until the sun comes up. And like 3 or 4 days later, she is just gone. The last couple days, she starts to get really demanding. You don't call me enough, we don't spend enough time together, where is this relationship going, don't you want me to move in with you? And then poof! 

So you go from 0-100 right away. You're totally single one minute and then all of a sudden you're wrapped up in someone's world the next. You have this insane relationship for a few days or a few weeks. Until either they lose interest in you and jump on the next interesting guy they see, or you suddenly realize that you're endlessly catering to their ego while all of the energy they directed at you is suddenly gone.

And if you dump them, there's hell to pay. Easier to just be less interesting and have them move on by themselves.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

For those in long-term relationships with NPDs I suspect they have some kind of Stockholm syndrome. NPDs are master manipulators and know how far they can push before they bring on the charm/victim mentality/martyrdome/the next big dream/love bomb. They can get you so you feel "grateful" or "guilty" for the weirdest things...like you owe them. 

My SIL plays her husband like a fiddle.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

peacem said:


> For those in long-term relationships with NPDs I suspect they have some kind of Stockholm syndrome. NPDs are master manipulators and know how far they can push before they bring on the charm/victim mentality/martyrdome/the next big dream/love bomb. They can get you so you feel "grateful" or "guilty" for the weirdest things...like you owe them.
> 
> My SIL plays her husband like a fiddle.


Ughhh...this is an old thread but man does it trigger me. Looking back at my post separation life I was already feeling bad about it being my fault my marriage ended, then on top of that I started dating a narcissist. I don't think I've ever fallen for someone so fast. It was weird, and strangely addicting. What you say makes sense. Looking back she honestly changed who I was towards the end of that relationship. I was a shell of myself. Completely beat down, and very submissive. My life essentially became all about her. 

I became the kind of guy that people on here tell to "man up", or go read this book. I can remember once I literally fainted one evening at a bar (no I wasn't drunk) and paramedics came. I wasn't conscious but when I came to her best friend was holding my head while I laid on the floor. She was nowhere to be found. A group of guys pulled me aside and said she began screaming about how I had ruined her evening right after I hit the floor. I remember they said to me, "That she wasn't worth it, that no one should be treated like she treated me that night". I found her outside the bar on her cell phone. She made me drive home, and she complained the whole way about how I ruined the evening. Never even asked if I was ok. Even her best friend called me the next day and said, "You need to leave her, or at least not accept being treated like that". But I still had three more months of torture to endure. I didn't leave until she started comparing me to another guy that was interested in her. I kicked her out of my place and never looked back. The weird thing is that flipped things. She became totally obsessed with me. Two years later she is still walking around town claiming to be the victim, and even tried to harass my new girlfriend a few times until she was blocked on social media. I wouldn't wish a narcissist partner on my worst enemy. 

Regarding me fainting and why, I can remember just staring at her, and thinking, how did my life get here? Then the next thing you know I lost my hearing, then I started seeing spots, and then I was out. I do think being with someone that stresses you out can literally make you ill. I guess I had reached that point. That was the only time in my life I have ever fainted, and they found no real underlying cause. I am fairly certain it was a panic attack bought on by realizing what my reality had become. She was literally making me sick.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> Ughhh...this is an old thread but man does it trigger me. Looking back at my post separation life I was already feeling bad about it being my fault my marriage ended, then on top of that I started dating a narcissist. I don't think I've ever fallen for someone so fast. It was weird, and strangely addicting. What you say makes sense. Looking back she honestly changed who I was towards the end of that relationship. I was a shell of myself. Completely beat down, and very submissive. My life essentially became all about her.
> 
> I became the kind of guy that people on here tell to "man up", or go read this book. I can remember once I literally fainted one evening at a bar (no I wasn't drunk) and paramedics came. I wasn't conscious but when I came to her best friend was holding my head while I laid on the floor. She was nowhere to be found. A group of guys pulled me aside and said she began screaming about how I had ruined her evening right after I hit the floor. I remember they said to me, "That she wasn't worth it, that no one should be treated like she treated me that night". I found her outside the bar on her cell phone. She made me drive home, and she complained the whole way about how I ruined the evening. Never even asked if I was ok. Even her best friend called me the next day and said, "You need to leave her, or at least not accept being treated like that". But I still had three more months of torture to endure. I didn't leave until she started comparing me to another guy that was interested in her. I kicked her out of my place and never looked back. The weird thing is that flipped things. She became totally obsessed with me. Two years later she is still walking around town claiming to be the victim, and even tried to harass my new girlfriend a few times until she was blocked on social media. I wouldn't wish a narcissist partner on my worst enemy.
> 
> Regarding me fainting and why, I can remember just staring at her, and thinking, how did my life get here? Then the next thing you know I lost my hearing, then I started seeing spots, and then I was out. I do think being with someone that stresses you out can literally make you ill. I guess I had reached that point. That was the only time in my life I have ever fainted, and they found no real underlying cause. I am fairly certain it was a panic attack bought on by realizing what my reality had become. She was literally making me sick.


Jeezus - let me at this *****, I'll rip her to shreds. 

Having met you, you are so kind, fun, sweet, gentlemanly, smart - - to think of someone treating you this way makes me furious!!


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> She was literally making me sick.


My narcissist got me to a point where I was a recluse with SA on antidepressants, BP meds and in therapy. It has taken a good year of no-contact and working out 'what the hell was that all about' for me to be able to move forward. And I'm fairly thick skinned. The good news is we know the red flags and what to look for so we have better judgement of people.


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## jane jasmine (Dec 29, 2019)

The first impression of a narcissist is a strong and confident person who believes in him / herself.
This is what attracts people to love them from the first sight. But later on it might be another story. Narcissist will never be wrong, will never apologize (since he can't do anything bad in his own eyes), and will never be able to accept compromise, but he will do exactly what he planned to do regardless of what other might wish.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

peacem said:


> My narcissist got me to a point where I was a recluse with SA on antidepressants, BP meds and in therapy. It has taken a good year of no-contact and working out 'what the hell was that all about' for me to be able to move forward. And I'm fairly thick skinned. The good news is we know the red flags and what to look for so we have better judgement of people.


I'm so sorry.

I read "I hate you, don't leave me" and it helped me with BPD trauma. If you haven't read it, it might be helpful.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Jeezus - let me at this *****, I'll rip her to shreds.
> 
> Having met you, you are so kind, fun, sweet, gentlemanly, smart - - to think of someone treating you this way makes me furious!!


LoL, I can totally see that. Actually I would like to see it! Kidding of course, I am surprised I never told you that story. Fairly certain I mentioned her to you, but I probably didn't share how bad it really got. I probably didn't because being honest it was something I was ashamed of. Its like I lost a year of my life (the first few months were cool, while I was being lured in). The experience gave me a different perspective. 

In the past I think I may have been a bit too harsh on male and female friends that find themselves in emotionally abusive situations. There is a lot more to it than simply, "manning up", or "just moving on". The problem is you don't even realize you are being abused. You walk around feeling like you're the problem. Its a complete mind ****. Trust me. I never thought I would be in a situation like that. I know one thing though, as a man I don't care how "alpha" you think you are. We ALL have our kryptonite in a mate somewhere. It would be great if we could go through life having never met that person! 

It was a match made in hell. I was going to break up with her, but then she got cancer, and I felt bad about letting her face that alone. So I fell in deeper, and by the time she was healthy again, I was too emotionally damaged to get out at that point. I can remember I would drive her from DC to the Cleveland Clinic every week for months. There was one week I couldn't make the drive and her parents had to take her. She yelled at me and said I didn't love her, if I loved her I would cancel my plans (can't remember if it was work or kids). I should add it was me that was paying for the treatments! Her ex-hubby canceled her health insurance policy the minute he found out she had cancer. In retrospect he had probably been abused badly by her his entire marriage.

I remember one evening we returned back from Cleveland and her ex husband was there to bring back her kids. She grabbed a knife from the kitchen and began charging towards the door, presumably to stab him. I tackled her. In the process one of the drainage things from her surgery burst and there was bloody liquid on her and me. When her kids came in the door. She threw me out for "hurting her". Her kids knew the deal though. I see them around from time to time, they are always nice to me, and I get the feeling they know I was good for their mother....but, she was very very bad for me. Good times. Glad I shared this. Mainly because I think the handful of posters on here that know me, wouldn't think I could be in a situation like that at all. But I firmly believe it can happen to anyone.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> LoL, I can totally see that. Actually I would like to see it! Kidding of course, I am surprised I never told you that story. Fairly certain I mentioned her to you, but I probably didn't share how bad it really got. I probably didn't because being honest it was something I was ashamed of. Its like I lost a year of my life (the first few months were cool, while I was being lured in). The experience gave me a different perspective.


You did tell me some things about her/the relationship. Like that she keyed your car :surprise:

I get it that it feels shameful to share about a relationship like this, like you don't want to tell others because you fear it will make you look weak or like you lack good judgment and it's embarrassing. But that's how emotional and mental abuse works. The one being abused takes on so much internal conflict that they just aren't even themselves anymore. I get it. That's why whenever we would discuss her or that relationship you only told me tidbits. 

Still want to curb stomp that *****.


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## nypsychnurse (Jan 13, 2019)

My narcissistic ex and the emotional trauma of that relationship made me physically ill...it is not uncommon that ppl in abusive relationships manifest all sorts of physical symptoms esp autoimmune disorders

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> You did tell me some things about her/the relationship. Like that she keyed your car :surprise:
> 
> I get it that it feels shameful to share about a relationship like this, like you don't want to tell others because you fear it will make you look weak or like you lack good judgment and it's embarrassing. But that's how emotional and mental abuse works. The one being abused takes on so much internal conflict that they just aren't even themselves anymore. I get it. That's why whenever we would discuss her or that relationship you only told me tidbits.
> 
> Still want to curb stomp that *****.


Yep, even keying my car was straight from the narcissist play book. She was blocked on all electronic platforms, and it was clear at that point I wasn't coming back. So it was all about getting my attention by any means necessary. Of course I called the police, and of course she used it against me. Telling everyone I was out to frame her bla, bla, bla. Totally playing the victim.

One last tidbit, cops were called twice on us in parking lots while we were together. I get it. People see a huge black guy and a petite blonde woman arguing, of course they are going to think I am the aggressor. But each time when police approached us. She would curse them out and insult them so badly that her friends and I would have to talk them out of arresting her. I do hate that woman, and I can't even tell her. Because engaging with a narcissist is a no-no! Don't interact with them at all unless you have to. Nothing sticks to them anyway. You can get all upset, you can yell at them, and you can even break down and cry. They will never show you any mercy or kindness, only more torment. You'll only end up messing your life up as long as they are in it, and meanwhile they are oblivious, because well...they are a narcissist. 

Oh, last tidbit (she deserves her own thread LoL). She dangled one last carrot fairly recently. Her and her husband finally settled their divorce after years. Apparently she wants to pay me the money back for the cancer treatments, but of course simply dropping a check in the mail to me isn't good enough and doesn't work for her, it has to be attached to meeting up for a drink. No thanks! As far as I am concerned she can keep the money. Its not worth me having to have an actual conversation with her. Its just a ploy to get me to reach out. She does not care about me at all, she never did, she just think she does. She really is sick, I know this now. Typing all of this was very therapeutic for me :smile2:.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ReformedHubby said:


> Yep, even keying my car was straight from the narcissist play book. She was blocked on all electronic platforms, and it was clear at that point I wasn't coming back. So it was all about getting my attention by any means necessary. Of course I called the police, and of course she used it against me. Telling everyone I was out to frame her bla, bla, bla. Totally playing the victim.
> 
> One last tidbit, cops were called twice on us in parking lots while we were together. I get it. People see a huge black guy and a petite blonde woman arguing, of course they are going to think I am the aggressor. But each time when police approached us. She would curse them out and insult them so badly that her friends and I would have to talk them out of arresting her. I do hate that woman, and I can't even tell her. Because engaging with a narcissist is a no-no! Don't interact with them at all unless you have to. Nothing sticks to them anyway. You can get all upset, you can yell at them, and you can even break down and cry. They will never show you any mercy or kindness, only more torment. You'll only end up messing your life up as long as they are in it, and meanwhile they are oblivious, because well...they are a narcissist.
> 
> Oh, last tidbit (she deserves her own thread LoL). She dangled one last carrot fairly recently. Her and her husband finally settled their divorce after years. Apparently she wants to pay me the money back for the cancer treatments, but of course simply dropping a check in the mail to me isn't good enough and doesn't work for her, it has to be attached to meeting up for a drink. No thanks! As far as I am concerned she can keep the money. Its not worth me having to have an actual conversation with her. Its just a ploy to get me to reach out. She does not care about me at all, she never did, she just think she does. She really is sick, I know this now. Typing all of this was very therapeutic for me :smile2:.


Good call. "If you want to pay me back, donate to the following charity on my behalf."

She won't do it. Even if you meet up with her, she won't give you anything before you agree to something you don't want to agree to.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I would just like to know how certain women manage to get in positions in a social circle in which others believe that she can do no wrong.

I had that issue with my first husband. Yes, his friend's wife was aggressive in various ways. My husband acted as if he was afraid of her. He did admit that there were some things that she did that annoyed him. So when I suggested that we downshift our relationship with that couple, he would not admit to things that he had said to me about her before. For a brief moment, my (ex)MIL adored her and said something along the lines that this interloper made her feel alive. Oh dear. 

I do agree that this woman's standing in my exH's social circle bolstered hers. But still, you would do things to minimize that person's affect on your life.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ReformedHubby said:


> Ughhh...this is an old thread but man does it trigger me. Looking back at my post separation life I was already feeling bad about it being my fault my marriage ended, then on top of that I started dating a narcissist. I don't think I've ever fallen for someone so fast. It was weird, and strangely addicting. What you say makes sense. Looking back she honestly changed who I was towards the end of that relationship. I was a shell of myself. Completely beat down, and very submissive. My life essentially became all about her.
> 
> I became the kind of guy that people on here tell to "man up", or go read this book. I can remember once I literally fainted one evening at a bar (no I wasn't drunk) and paramedics came. I wasn't conscious but when I came to her best friend was holding my head while I laid on the floor. She was nowhere to be found. A group of guys pulled me aside and said she began screaming about how I had ruined her evening right after I hit the floor. I remember they said to me, "That she wasn't worth it, that no one should be treated like she treated me that night". I found her outside the bar on her cell phone. She made me drive home, and she complained the whole way about how I ruined the evening. Never even asked if I was ok. Even her best friend called me the next day and said, "You need to leave her, or at least not accept being treated like that". But I still had three more months of torture to endure. I didn't leave until she started comparing me to another guy that was interested in her. I kicked her out of my place and never looked back. The weird thing is that flipped things. She became totally obsessed with me. Two years later she is still walking around town claiming to be the victim, and even tried to harass my new girlfriend a few times until she was blocked on social media. I wouldn't wish a narcissist partner on my worst enemy.
> 
> Regarding me fainting and why, I can remember just staring at her, and thinking, how did my life get here? Then the next thing you know I lost my hearing, then I started seeing spots, and then I was out. I do think being with someone that stresses you out can literally make you ill. I guess I had reached that point. That was the only time in my life I have ever fainted, and they found no real underlying cause. I am fairly certain it was a panic attack bought on by realizing what my reality had become. She was literally making me sick.


I’m so sorry. 

With most BPD folks, if they don’t have it under control and recognize it, I say bail. 

There is no ‘cure’ for BPD, only management. Sometimes chemical.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I honestly think that Megan Markle is a narcissist. She fits all the criteria. She has cut Harry off from his friends and all his family, just as she did with hers, except her mum. She wants and get her own very demanding way all the time. She uses people and throws them away when they are no longer any use. She wants everything her way. I fear Harry will have a very miserable marriage but as yet he hasn't recognised what is happening. I fear that a divorce will happen in a few years. 
I cant imagine why anyone would stay with someone like this, and being the child of a narcissist must be awful as well. You can never get them to see reason or to admit they are wrong. They always blame everyone else for everything that happens.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I honestly think that Megan Markle is a narcissist. She fits all the criteria. She has cut Harry off from his friends and all his family, just as she did with hers, except her mum. She wants and get her own very demanding way all the time. She uses people and throws them away when they are no longer any use. She wants everything her way. I fear Harry will have a very miserable marriage but as yet he hasn't recognised what is happening. I fear that a divorce will happen in a few years.
> I cant imagine why anyone would stay with someone like this, and being the child of a narcissist must be awful as well. You can never get them to see reason or to admit they are wrong. They always blame everyone else for everything that happens.


I sympathise with MM about her family of origin. It would be interesting to learn about her parents' relationship. sometimes I wonder if the father wanted a bit strange, found it in a black woman and stayed with her for about 5 years. It's kind of like the white family of Thomas Jefferson. They wanted to ignore Jefferson's black family. The white side may have told her she will amount to nothing. ..... and she got even in the most productive way possible. It appeared to me that the white side of her family wanted some reflected publicity on them; they went about it the wrong way and MM put a lid on it.

I will say that sometimes you have go low contact or no contact with one or more family members. Some family members do not understand words.

Here's an article that does side by side comparison of how the British media treats KM and MM. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...double-standards-royal?bfsource=relatedmanual

IMO, the people who have brought instability to the monarchy are Princess Di, Fergie and Andrew. And what's up with divorce? Let's see Charles, Ann, Andrew have all divorced. Is divorce only bad when it involves a black person?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> I sympathise with MM about her family of origin. It would be interesting to learn about her parents' relationship. sometimes I wonder if the father wanted a bit strange, found it in a black woman and stayed with her for about 5 years. It's kind of like the white family of Thomas Jefferson. They wanted to ignore Jefferson's black family. The white side may have told her she will amount to nothing. ..... and she got even in the most productive way possible. It appeared to me that the white side of her family wanted some reflected publicity on them; they went about it the wrong way and MM put a lid on it.
> 
> I will say that sometimes you have go low contact or no contact with one or more family members. Some family members do not understand words.
> 
> ...


Its interesting that you bring up race, I didn't even know she was mixed race for months, she certainly doesn't look mixed race. Initially here she was very much welcomed, we were all glad that Harry had found a lady for himself even though they rushed into marriage and having a baby despite Williams warning to him not to do so. (Their mum has warned them not to rush into getting married too fast).

However as time passed her narcissist behaviour began to emerge and we began to see Harry change to become an unhappy 'woke' man whose wife was separating from his close friends, his brother, his father and his grandmother the Queen. It was clear very early on that she was demanding, self entitled and hated sharing the limelight with anyone. Lecturing us all on climate change when they flew around in private jets, telling us to think of the poor while she spent an enormous £500,000 on her baby shower and spent £1,000,000 on clothes in just a year(!!!!) and £2,000,000 on refurbishing the home the queen had let them live in. She announced her pregnancy at Eugine's wedding for goodness sake, she couldn't even let her have her special day, and always tried to hog the limelight. Their 'poor me' interviews were appalling. 

Many members of the Royal family have had to deal with years of very bad press, including Kate in the early years, but they said nothing, never complained, and came though with great dignity and integrity. Megan is very weak and hates any criticism. Megan loves attention and craves it, but it must always be on her terms. She craves the attention of rich and famous people, such as Clinton, Obama, famous actors and actresses, talk show hosts, but will cast aside those who challenge her, which she will do with Harry one day sadly. 

Megan runs when things get challenging, as I said she is very weak and has no staying power. She married Harry for what she could get from being married to a member of the Royal family. She never had any intention of going along with what was expected of her. She lies a lot, and laughingly claims that she didn't even know who Harry was despite being obsessed with Lady Diana for years.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Its interesting that you bring up race, I didn't even know she was mixed race for months, she certainly doesn't look mixed race. Initially here she was very much welcomed, we were all glad that Harry had found a lady for himself even though they rushed into marriage and having a baby despite Williams warning to him not to do so. (Their mum has warned them not to rush into getting married too fast).
> 
> However as time passed her narcissist behaviour began to emerge and we began to see Harry change to become an unhappy 'woke' man whose wife was separating from his close friends, his brother, his father and his grandmother the Queen. It was clear very early on that she was demanding, self entitled and hated sharing the limelight with anyone. Lecturing us all on climate change when they flew around in private jets, telling us to think of the poor while she spent an enormous £500,000 on her baby shower and spent £1,000,000 on clothes in just a year(!!!!) and £2,000,000 on refurbishing the home the queen had let them live in. She announced her pregnancy at Eugine's wedding for goodness sake, she couldn't even let her have her special day, and always tried to hog the limelight. Their 'poor me' interviews were appalling.
> 
> ...


You're really projecting.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> You're really projecting.


LoL, it was written like she knows Megan Markle and Harry personally. For what its worth I don't think MM is a narcissist, and I do think racism and classism are contributing factors. To say that racism isn't a factor would imply that racism doesn't exist in the UK, and that is absurd, of course it does. People on the other side of the pond like to say they have less racism than we do in America, but to me its pretty much the same everywhere. I am not complaining, but at the same time I can't pretend its a thing of the past either. Their marriage may not make it, but the same goes for half the people that get married. I don't feel sorry for Harry. To me its a man deciding to choose his own path. Maybe its also a life he never wanted? Thats my take on it.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> LoL, it was written like she knows Megan Markle and Harry personally. For what its worth I don't think MM is a narcissist, and I do think racism and classism are contributing factors. To say that racism isn't a factor would imply that racism doesn't exist in the UK, and that is absurd, of course it does. People on the other side of the pond like to say they have less racism than we do in America, but to me its pretty much the same everywhere. I am not complaining, but at the same time I can't pretend its a thing of the past either. *Their marriage may not make it, but the same goes for half the people that get married. *I don't feel sorry for Harry. To me its a man deciding to choose his own path. Maybe its also a life he never wanted? Thats my take on it.


Harry's father, aunt and uncle survived divorce. And they're white and were married to white people. I guess it's ok for white people divorces.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> LoL, it was written like she knows Megan Markle and Harry personally. For what its worth I don't think MM is a narcissist, and I do think racism and classism are contributing factors. To say that racism isn't a factor would imply that racism doesn't exist in the UK, and that is absurd, of course it does. People on the other side of the pond like to say they have less racism than we do in America, but to me its pretty much the same everywhere. I am not complaining, but at the same time I can't pretend its a thing of the past either. Their marriage may not make it, but the same goes for half the people that get married. I don't feel sorry for Harry. To me its a man deciding to choose his own path. Maybe its also a life he never wanted? Thats my take on it.


Racism is far far less here than in the USA. I for one couldn't care less if one of my children married someone who was black or mixed race. I dated a black guy for some time before my first husband. Megan's issues have nothing to do with race or class, but on her behaviour. Separating your spouse from their close friends and family is known abusive behaviour. As I said she was very much welcomed initially, but as her bad behaviour began to appear, things went downhill. She is a classic Narcissist. 
I was told by the daughter of a man who deals with VIPs at Wimbledon that she was the worst behaved VIP they had ever had there and I am sure they have had a few other difficult ones in their time. She has lost countless staff due to her rude and demanding behaviour. 
Harrys once spoken desire is to live in Africa and work with the animals, Megan wants the red carpet, the fame, the famous associates etc etc. She needs attention, she needs to be the most important. Did you see Harry's cringing conversation with the Disney executive? Just gross, but driven by Megan of course.

I think its sad that no one of mixed race can be criticised or found wanting or its called racist. I didn't realise black people were all so perfect.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> Harry's father, aunt and uncle survived divorce. And they're white and were married to white people. I guess it's ok for white people divorces.



I have no issues with divorce, and its sad that you feel the need to bring race into everything when its not relevant.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> You're really projecting.


Projecting what onto what? We in the UK have seen this unfold over the last 3 years, its not hard to see what has happened. Classic narcissist behaviour.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> I honestly think that Megan Markle is a narcissist. She fits all the criteria. She has cut Harry off from his friends and all his family, just as she did with hers, except her mum. She wants and get her own very demanding way all the time. She uses people and throws them away when they are no longer any use. She wants everything her way. I fear Harry will have a very miserable marriage but as yet he hasn't recognised what is happening. I fear that a divorce will happen in a few years.
> I cant imagine why anyone would stay with someone like this, and being the child of a narcissist must be awful as well. You can never get them to see reason or to admit they are wrong. They always blame everyone else for everything that happens.


I think the opposite.

Harry seemed unhappy with being a royal before she ever came along. And the way that the royal family and the British population treated her was horrible, and probably just crossed a line with Harry faster than maybe it would have happened before.

He's not even on the 'B' team as far as the Queen goes - he's down on the 'C' or even 'D' team, and he just doesn't roll that way. Look at his _exemplary_ military service, that he didn't want publicized. He was also viewed as quite the 'wild child' as a youth, including doing such ghastly things as smoking pot and partying in Vegas.

He never really fit the mold and I think wanted out since day 1. From what I can glean, being a royal basically blows except you're rich. But how good is it being rich if you can't make any decisions about your life? 

I heard they just bought a >$30M place in either Vancouver or Victoria, I forget which. They're loaded and will probably be just fine, and happier, without the spotlight and without being under the thumb of Her Majesty.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Oh and let’s not forget King Edward also abdicated for much of the same reasons, and to his deathbed he never seemed to regret it. 

They also blamed Simpson for it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Marduk said:


> Oh and let’s not forget King Edward also abdicated for much of the same reasons, and to his deathbed he never seemed to regret it.
> 
> They also blamed Simpson for it.


That was a complete blessing as he was a playboy and was totally unsuitable to be king. Instead we got his amazing brother and then our awesome Queen Elisabeth. I am only thankful that we have William and Kate. 

I am amazed that so many cant recognise a narcissist when they see one.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> > Oh and let’s not forget King Edward also abdicated for much of the same reasons, and to his deathbed he never seemed to regret it.
> ...


I'm amazed people see them around every street corner.

Btw, what makes a suitable queen or king, they don't actually do anything do they?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I'm amazed people see them around every street corner.
> 
> Btw, what makes a suitable queen or king, they don't actually do anything do they?


After watching the awesome Netflix series "The Crown," the highest suitability for royalty seems to be exactly that - don't do anything.

Because it provides a sense of stability, unflappability, and a connection to a shared past.

I find myself being somewhat of a monarchist the older I get.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Marduk said:


> After watching the awesome Netflix series "The Crown," the highest suitability for royalty seems to be exactly that - don't do anything.
> 
> Because it provides a sense of stability, unflappability, and a connection to a shared past.
> 
> I find myself being somewhat of a monarchist the older I get.


I learned to appreciate the Queen. My ex MIL was such a monarchist that you could see that hushed look of reverence on her face when the Queen was just on TV. 

the problem is that there are very few careers that they can take on and still avoid conflict of interest. So the more minor royals chafe. Prince Edward's wife had built a business in PR and the queen said not in my family.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Here's an opinion on Megxit:

https://thebulwark.com/lets-blame-piers-morgan-for-megxit/


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

NextTimeAround said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> > After watching the awesome Netflix series "The Crown," the highest suitability for royalty seems to be exactly that - don't do anything.
> ...


I always thought it was silly. After all, these are in essense trust fund babies with imbred genetic diseases that don't seem to offer much except kissing babies and shaking hands. Is that enough for taxpayer dollars?

If you have a Prime Minister, cut these welfare queens loose? It doesn't seem much about reverence for the past since in the past kings/queens of England actually had power.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I always thought it was silly. After all, these are in essense trust fund babies with imbred genetic diseases that don't seem to offer much except kissing babies and shaking hands. Is that enough for taxpayer dollars?
> 
> If you have a Prime Minister, cut these welfare queens loose? It doesn't seem much about reverence for the past since in the past kings/queens of England actually had power.


Meh. I like the cultural and historical tie back to the queen. And at least some symbolic balance of power. And the whole commonwealth idea.

I think it's at least part of the psychological reason that our PM can't effectively run amok like American presidents can, and do. Things like the speaker of the house holding so much power here as the representative of the crown - but their role is essentially to be a sanity check and management system for the functioning of parliament. 

Trump has effectively demonstrated that there are very little effective checks and balances on one person holding absolute power. I mean, you might as well have a king in the US, you just vote for him every four years.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I always thought it was silly. After all, these are in essense trust fund babies with imbred genetic diseases that don't seem to offer much except kissing babies and shaking hands. Is that enough for taxpayer dollars?
> 
> If you have a Prime Minister, cut these welfare queens loose? It doesn't seem much about reverence for the past since in the past kings/queens of England actually had power.


The Queen is the head of state; every country has one. Our president is head of state and head of government. While Germany has a chancellor who is head of government, they also have President who is head of state. 

Monarchists like the fact that it's been the same head of state since 1952. That means she doesn't pander to the public. Ever notice that she never says anything off the cuff publicly. she only reads speeches prepared by the Prime Minister. And this is why she is so popular. I try to observe her as well through the newspaper. I think she likes the Obamas. And I like that.

It is going to be scary when she needs to abdicate. I don't think Charles has ever recovered fully from his Diana years. She still has a strong following. I was amazed at how many people campaigned against Charles for remarrying. Get a life!

My bet, in order the save the monarchy, is that Charles will agree to be King for a short period..... 5 years maybe and then William will be king and that will save monarchy because he is the son of Diana.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Let's not forget that the Queen did dissolve Australian parliament as late as 1975. She still has that power.

An Australian told me that was when overseas voting got started.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > I always thought it was silly. After all, these are in essense trust fund babies with imbred genetic diseases that don't seem to offer much except kissing babies and shaking hands. Is that enough for taxpayer dollars?
> ...


You have to be able to exercise power for there to be any balance. I don't understand how an ineffective monarch can hold in check the PM. But I'm not sure the power of PM's or how widespread it is. Does he even control the military?

As for Trump, you mean they same Trump that is going through an impeachment trial as we speak? In front of the House, Senate and Supreme Court Justice. Sure, it's all a play being acted out that we know the ending of. But the House still controls the purse strings and the Judicial Branch still has the final say on laws and executive action.

Does the President have too much power, sure, but its the Congress fault for ceding that power over the years. But usually it only relates to military power, which isn't all together bad since trying to get 600 people agree to anything is futile. But iof course it's a slippery slope. In the end, he still answers to the people.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Government was not my major so I can't say too much authoritative about heads of state. They do play a symbolic role, they are the family of the country. Which is why we have FLOTUS and there is intense media interest in what she and family does. 

The Queen does have power like dissolving Parliaments around the world. But I bet if it were to happen again, many commonwealth members would be reviewing their "agreements."


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Yeah but First Lady's don't get paid. They basically push some maternal agenda or do some public service, but otherwise they are quite useless.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> You have to be able to exercise power for there to be any balance. I don't understand how an ineffective monarch can hold in check the PM. But I'm not sure the power of PM's or how widespread it is. Does he even control the military?


The queen effectively holds no real power, partially because we'd flip out if she tried to override anything, but also because we have representatives here that are elected Canadian citizens that 'represent' her.



> Although the person of the sovereign is shared with 15 other independent countries within the Commonwealth of Nations, each country's monarchy is separate and legally distinct.[23] As a result, the current monarch is officially titled Queen of Canada and, in this capacity, she, her consort, and other members of the Canadian Royal Family undertake public and private functions domestically and abroad as representatives of Canada. However, the Queen is the only member of the Royal Family with any constitutional role. While some powers are exercisable only by the sovereign, most of the monarch's operational and ceremonial duties (such as summoning the House of Commons and accrediting ambassadors) are exercised by his or her representative, the Governor General of Canada.[27] In Canada's provinces, the monarch in right of each is represented by a lieutenant governor. (As territories fall under the federal jurisdiction, rather than a lieutenant governor they each have a commissioner, who represents the federal Crown-in-Council directly).[28]
> 
> As all executive authority is vested in the sovereign, assent is required to allow for bills to become law and for letters patent and orders in council to have legal effect. While the power for these acts stems from the Canadian people through the constitutional conventions of democracy,[29] executive authority remains vested in the Crown and is only entrusted by the sovereign to the government on behalf of the people. This underlines the Crown's role in safeguarding the rights, freedoms, and democratic system of government of Canadians, reinforcing the fact that "governments are the servants of the people and not the reverse".[30][31] Thus, within a constitutional monarchy the sovereign's direct participation in any of these areas of governance is limited, with the sovereign normally exercising executive authority only on the advice of the executive committee of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, and the sovereign's legislative and judicial responsibilities largely carried out through parliamentarians as well as judges and justices of the peace.[30] The Crown today primarily functions as a guarantor of continuous and stable governance and a nonpartisan safeguard against abuse of power.[34] The sovereign acts as a custodian of the Crown's democratic powers and a representation of the "power of the people above government and political parties".[35][36]
> 
> Canada is one of the oldest continuing monarchies in the world.[19][37] Initially established in the 16th century,[n 1] monarchy in Canada has evolved through a continuous succession of French and British sovereigns into the independent Canadian sovereigns of today,[54] whose institution is sometimes colloquially referred to as the Maple Crown.[n 2]


But I think being a monarchy is a stabilizing force in politics. Were the queen to chastise Canada for something, I think we'd feel like we'd been put into the no-no corner by mom for sure.



> As for Trump, you mean they same Trump that is going through an impeachment trial as we speak? In front of the House, Senate and Supreme Court Justice. Sure, it's all a play being acted out that we know the ending of. But the House still controls the purse strings and the Judicial Branch still has the final say on laws and executive action.
> 
> Does the President have too much power, sure, but its the Congress fault for ceding that power over the years. But usually it only relates to military power, which isn't all together bad since trying to get 600 people agree to anything is futile. But iof course it's a slippery slope. In the end, he still answers to the people.


I don't want to get too much into the rabbit hole of politics here on a thread on narcissism... but I think Trump again has effectively demonstrated that he can overrule the house (holdback of $400M to Ukraine, redirecting funds to build the wall, etc), stacking the SC in his favor with extremely problematic judges, and effectively re-casting laws that limit presidential authority and what executive privilege means. I mean, it's actually an open question in your country - if he committed murder while president, could anybody do anything about it? The fact that's even a question means pretty much "no." 

And he seems to answer not at all to 'the people.' He seems to answer solely to 'his base.' With gerrymandering basically OK'd legally, I'm not sure that will change any time soon.

/TJ over.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I used to be a magnet for narcissists  They are attracted to people who appear vulnerable. I used to be unsure of myself, and looked for men to define me, to give me purpose. I didn't believe men when they told me I was ''pretty'' or complimented me. I was a dream gf for a narcissist, sadly. 

They come on strong, very confident, and they're super charming. At first, they shower you with attention, compliments, and at first, it all seems so great. In short order, they tell you they love you, and if you're vulnerable, you don't see that as a red flag. Well, after you tell them that you're in love with them, it is literally like a switch flips and they turn controlling, mean, abusive. It becomes all about them, and you are like, what happened? 

If narcissists showed their true colors from the beginning, no one would fall for them, but they're very good manipulators and charmers. So, that's why.

The thing that I realized though during those relationships is that if I wanted out, I'd have to learn what I was doing to attract those types.I needed to change. I needed to work on respecting and loving myself, without a man to define me. Once that eventually happened, I no longer attracted them. (Some might still try, but I didn't fall for their tricks at that point.)


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> I used to be a magnet for narcissists  They are attracted to people who appear vulnerable. I used to be unsure of myself, and looked for men to define me, to give me purpose. I didn't believe men when they told me I was ''pretty'' or complimented me. I was a dream gf for a narcissist, sadly.
> 
> They come on strong, very confident, and they're super charming. At first, they shower you with attention, compliments, and at first, it all seems so great. In short order, they tell you they love you, and if you're vulnerable, you don't see that as a red flag. Well, after you tell them that you're in love with them, it is literally like a switch flips and they turn controlling, mean, abusive. It becomes all about them, and you are like, what happened?
> 
> If narcissists showed their true colors from the beginning, no one would fall for them, but they're very good manipulators and charmers. So, that's why.


So sorry. Been there, and it sucks, and can mess you up.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Marduk said:


> So sorry. Been there, and it sucks, and can mess you up.


Yes, I was seriously messed up over those relationships. And they're hard to break away from, right? They stalk, text endlessly, call at all hours of the night, hoping to catch you again in a moment of weakness. Hoping you'll take them back, only for the abuse to begin again. They are only in it for the game.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> I don't want to get too much into the rabbit hole of politics here on a thread on narcissism... but I think Trump again has effectively demonstrated that he can overrule the house (holdback of $400M to Ukraine, redirecting funds to build the wall, etc), stacking the SC in his favor with extremely problematic judges, and effectively re-casting laws that limit presidential authority and what executive privilege means. I mean, it's actually an open question in your country - if he committed murder while president, could anybody do anything about it? The fact that's even a question means pretty much "no."
> 
> And he seems to answer not at all to 'the people.' He seems to answer solely to 'his base.' With gerrymandering basically OK'd legally, I'm not sure that will change any time soon.
> 
> /TJ over.


The President isn't immune to murder charges. If he committed murder, he would go to jail and await trial , obviously whatever the Congress felt about him, he couldn't be effective while in jail. Nowhere does it say in any written law in the US that murder is illegal except if you are X,Y,Z. Impeachment isn't really needed in those situations.

I think it would be hard to find a President in the past that didn't trespass over some Act. It's a matter of gravity of the trespass. If you are going to use the Impoundment Act against him, you need to then understand that for nearly 200 years of the republic, Impoundment was a power that the President had. It was used by Jefferson up to Nixon. The law is on shaky constitutional ground and every President has said they have rights to it.

Every SC judge is problematic for the other party... same with the use of executive privilege but no one would be so foolish as to say the President isn't entitled to it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> The President isn't immune to murder charges. If he committed murder, he would go to jail and await trial , obviously whatever the Congress felt about him, he couldn't be effective while in jail. Nowhere does it say in any written law in the US that murder is illegal except if you are X,Y,Z. Impeachment isn't really needed in those situations.
> 
> I think it would be hard to find a President in the past that didn't trespass over some Act. It's a matter of gravity of the trespass. If you are going to use the Impoundment Act against him, you need to then understand that for nearly 200 years of the republic, Impoundment was a power that the President had. It was used by Jefferson up to Nixon. The law is on shaky constitutional ground and every President has said they have rights to it.
> 
> Every SC judge is problematic for the other party...





> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Constitution explains how a president can be removed from office for “high crimes and misdemeanors” by Congress using the impeachment process. But the Constitution is silent on whether a president can face criminal prosecution in court, and the U.S. Supreme Court has not directly addressed the question.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...president-face-criminal-charges-idUSKCN1QF1D3

Our PM would face the same charges anybody else would, and would have zero legal immunity for pretty much anything, just to contrast.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > The President isn't immune to murder charges. If he committed murder, he would go to jail and await trial , obviously whatever the Congress felt about him, he couldn't be effective while in jail. Nowhere does it say in any written law in the US that murder is illegal except if you are X,Y,Z. Impeachment isn't really needed in those situations.
> ...


That's because murder is a state law not a federal law. He doesn't have immunity.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> Yes, I was seriously messed up over those relationships. And they're hard to break away from, right? They stalk, text endlessly, call at all hours of the night, hoping to catch you again in a moment of weakness. Hoping you'll take them back, only for the abuse to begin again. They are only in it for the game.


Yep.

Like the computer says at the end of "Wargames"... sometimes the only way to win the game is not to play at all.

You can't fix these people. They're never going to "get better." They may learn to manage their disorder, but they are more likely to believe that they are perfect, it's everybody else that has a problem. I mean, they are narcissists after all.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

*Deidre* said:


> Yes, I was seriously messed up over those relationships. And they're hard to break away from, right? They stalk, text endlessly, call at all hours of the night, hoping to catch you again in a moment of weakness. Hoping you'll take them back, only for the abuse to begin again. They are only in it for the game.


I blame my parents for the time I wasted with guys who might have been narcissists. I was always taught to give people second chances and the benefit of the doubt. And it was very interesting because my parents would act as if they couldn't understand the attraction any guy found in me. as in, a guy dating me was doing me a favor and I better act right.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yeah but First Lady's don't get paid. They basically push some maternal agenda or do some public service, but otherwise they are quite useless.


I think if you read a few memoirs, you will realize what savvy First Ladies have.


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## Ella-Bee (Apr 18, 2020)

Adding to what others have already said here... Narcissists don't do normal dating. They stick to a tried and tested format that is designed to mimic addiction rather than love.

1. They select victims that are more vulnerable - people who have recently broken up, people going through divorce, people who have just lost someone, people who are depressed or lacking in self esteem, people who are 'pleasers', etc. A therapist once told me it's almost identical to the criteria pedophiles have for their victims. They want someone who lacks healthy boundaries, who lacks a support system, who isn't getting what they need elsewhere..
2. They know how to 'market' themselves. Since they lack any other redeeming qualities, they tend to invest heavily in their appearance. Hours in the gym, perfectly sculpted everything, fake tans, fake hair, whatever cosmetic 'upgrades' they can get to make themselves visually stunning.
3. They lie. The first 6-12 months you will only get to see their fake 'love-bomb' persona. They do their best to hide all their negative attributes and pretend to be Mr/Miss Perfect. And they are very good actors. They will be sweet, affectionate, understanding, excellent listeners, interested in everything you have to say. At the same time, they are fishing for information to use later on.
4. They create fake bonds. You will pour out your heart to them, then they will respond with terrible stories of how they have also been hurt and victimised and how you've finally come along to make everything better again. You will feel like you've finally met someone that understands pain and suffering. You've found your soulmate (TM) and will face the world together as a team!
5. Year one is like a Disney version of romance. They will lavish attention, praise, gifts, and anything else on you and tell you how unique and amazing this relationship is. They can't get enough of you. Your ego will go from broken to sky high, and with that will come all those 'feel good' chemicals that you will start to associate with the narcissist. Normal dating can't compete. They will keep you addicted almost 24/7, until they are all you can think about.
6. They lock you in. Narcissists will quickly push for chains to bind you to them - marriage, house, pets, kids. Anything that will make it difficult to walk away. But you still think you've found The One, so all logic goes out of the window.
7. They boil you to death slowly. Once they've trapped you emotionally/financially/legally you will start to meet the real person behind that fake mask. It will start slowly - an over reaction to something that momentarily shocks you. But then they will switch back to love-bombing again, so you brush it off. Everything is fine for a while. Then they do something else that seems completely out of character. Again, you put it down to having a bad day or PMS or something. Then the abuse begins. First of all it's just sarcastic remarks and criticism. And directed at other people, not you. 'He/she just has a sarcastic/dark sense of humour' you tell yourself. I can deal with that. You find yourself sharing in their nasty 'jokes' about the waitress with the stupid accent or the guy down the street with the bad hair. Because you both are perfect and no one else can compare. You realise they can go a bit too far and can treat people cruelly, but at least it's someone else. Right? Then one day you have an argument and you find that sarcasm turned on you. All that information you willingly handed over at the start of the relationship is now used as a weapon to stick you where it hurts.
8. They create extreme highs and lows. The aim for them is to get you trauma bonded. To do this, they need to create swinging emotions that feel like a rollacoaster. They met you when you were low, then caused a massive high, then they tear you apart to create a low again, followed by more love-bombing that feels amazing in comparison. You learn to tolerate the lows, as you know there will be a high soon after. At least there will at first. They might encourage you to join them in risky behaviour to produce more adrenalin, so the highs are even higher - speeding, extreme sports, heavy drinking, taboo forms of sex, partying, etc.
9. By now it's very difficult to leave. You have a house/pets/kids together and can't easily walk away. And they know it. You also still have that vision in your head of Mr/Miss Perfect and still believe that's who they really are. So as the lows get lower and the highs are less and less frequent, it doesn't matter. You're now trapped.
10. They are now free to treat you however they like. The abuse will get more extreme and more violent over the years, gradually leading to physical violence in many cases. They may switch back to love-bombing occasionally, if they think they've pushed things too far and you are about to discard them. They absolutely hate to be discarded. If a relationship ends, it's only when THEY decide it will end. They may threaten you with divorce every single time you argue, but you're never allowed to be the one that walks. If you try that, they will make your life hell. 

Unless you've fallen for a narcissist before, they are very difficult to spot. When you first meet, it will just seem as though you've hit the jackpot and you are the luckiest person on the planet. The narcissist won't bother to keep their mask on around everyone, so you may get negative comments from people about your partner that seem completely crazy. You'll be blinded to who they are and likely lose friends/family because you'll be so intent on defending them to anyone who dares question their perfect selves. Over time you'll find your social network gradually shrinking, as it's you and them against the big bad world!

Listen to those comments. Especially from people who aren't all that close. Narcissists may keep up the mask in front of people that they think have your ear - close friends, relatives, etc. But they will rarely bother in front of colleagues or mere aquaintances that they don't consider to be influential. Especially those of the same gender as them. If your female colleagues have nothing good to say about your female narc, at least consider why that might be. The same applies for male narcs and male colleagues. My ex was charming and friendly 99% of the time towards my family, as he knew I valued their opinion. But I had a few comments from guys at work that met him on company events. Nothing extreme, but the odd awkward look that made it clear they didn't approve or understand why I was dating him. If I tried to get a group event going with both him and them involved, they would find reasons to avoid it. They very clearly did not want to spend any time around the guy, which confused the hell out of me. But I should have seen that as the red flag it was.

All narcs seem to be clones of each other when it comes to following the above technique. If you meet someone and it feels too good to be true, maybe it is. At least take a few years to really get to know them before tying yourself up.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Ella-Bee said:


> Adding to what others have already said here... Narcissists don't do normal dating. They stick to a tried and tested format that is designed to mimic addiction rather than love.
> 
> 1. They select victims that are more vulnerable - people who have recently broken up, people going through divorce, people who have just lost someone, people who are depressed or lacking in self esteem, people who are 'pleasers', etc. A therapist once told me it's almost identical to the criteria pedophiles have for their victims. They want someone who lacks healthy boundaries, who lacks a support system, who isn't getting what they need elsewhere..
> 2. They know how to 'market' themselves. Since they lack any other redeeming qualities, they tend to invest heavily in their appearance. Hours in the gym, perfectly sculpted everything, fake tans, fake hair, whatever cosmetic 'upgrades' they can get to make themselves visually stunning.
> ...


Oh man, talk about a triggering post. You nailed it. If you've ever fallen for a narc, this describes it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ella your post is so dead on. This is exactly what happens. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Ella-Bee said:


> Adding to what others have already said here... Narcissists don't do normal dating. They stick to a tried and tested format that is designed to mimic addiction rather than love.
> 
> 1. They select victims that are more vulnerable - people who have recently broken up, people going through divorce, people who have just lost someone, people who are depressed or lacking in self esteem, people who are 'pleasers', etc. A therapist once told me it's almost identical to the criteria pedophiles have for their victims. They want someone who lacks healthy boundaries, who lacks a support system, who isn't getting what they need elsewhere..
> 2. They know how to 'market' themselves. Since they lack any other redeeming qualities, they tend to invest heavily in their appearance. Hours in the gym, perfectly sculpted everything, fake tans, fake hair, whatever cosmetic 'upgrades' they can get to make themselves visually stunning.
> ...


Wow. Seriously.

You should write a book or something. An article. Something. Keep posting, please.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Yeah, E-B nailed it. I was going to simply say people are attracted to narcs because the narcs love-bomb them at the start, like a cult would. There are a lot of parallels between a narcissistic personality structure and a cult.


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## Ella-Bee (Apr 18, 2020)

I've never consideed it that way, but it is indeed similar to how a cult leader traps their followers.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, E-B nailed it. I was going to simply say people are attracted to narcs because the narcs love-bomb them at the start, like a cult would. There are a lot of parallels between a narcissistic personality structure and a cult.


I shouldn't find this funny but I do. You are correct, it is a similar psychological journey. I've been watching a lot of cult documentaries lately. It seems they all start out as utopia, then fast forward a few years. Your leader has all of your money, and your wife too!!! They literally all lead to that. The cult becomes a vehicle to feed the leaders ever growing ego.


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## Mother&Wife (May 4, 2020)

Deejo said:


> See, I'm wondering if people are attracted to Narcissists either because they demonstrate traits they wish to emulate, admire, or fundamentally find desirable? And in my history of knowing folks with NPD, even after they had demonstrated untold levels of d0uchebaggery, those who found themselves pulled into their orbit, could not pull themselves out. As I indicated, the orbiters or partners were often people whom I would not put in the category of low self esteem, or weak minded.
> 
> So I'm wondering if the people that stick around are looking for something from the Narcissist that either fulfills them, or they hope rubs off on them?


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## christine29 (Nov 30, 2021)

Narcissists are attractive primarily because they regard themselves as the prize, and this influences how others perceive them. They believe in their own worth (at least on the surface), so their charisma and confidence frequently make them the life of the party.


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## Savannah01 (Sep 8, 2021)

Like I mentioned on the other post , most exhibit “confidence ” or so it seems , we are all attracted to confidence even when it is a masquerade for a completely narcissistic personality… often we don’t see it until it fully comes into bloom and by then we are more likely deeply into the toxic relationship 
That’s it seems is the pattern we end up with when dealing with a narcissist in a relationship


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## SnakePlissken (10 mo ago)

Narcs are experts and reading people because they often had to in order to survive childhood in messed up conditions that damaged them. Instead of forming a coherent sense of self they morph into whomever they believe you want them to be based on discussions with you. The problem (for them) is they cannot play this role on the stage of life for everyone they interact with every day. When they realize this fault within their "perfect" selves they get absolutely irate and direct that self hatred to others around them...because well they are too damn perfect to be unable to meet everyone's needs so its your fault they couldnt. Narcs are children emotionally and most people love kids. Kids by the way have under developed empathy and a sense of self (just like narcs) imagine that!!! Part of me thinks we as humans are pre-wired for loving narcs because of survival of our species requires loving children.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

My STBX is a narcissist. She hid if very well (lots of love bombing) until about 2 years ago. I just ignored the signs because I loved her. It wasn't until my Mom got a terminal illness and died shortly after that I really noticed her lack of empathy. I started researching narcissism online and was blown away at all the signs that had been there all along.


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