# Great read for the BS!! Why Is It So Hard to Remember They Suck?



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Why Is It So Hard to Remember They Suck?

August 17, 2015 by Chump Lady

Today’s guest post is by Tempest (who has a PhD in psychology)

Why is it so hard to remember that they suck? What makes hapless chumps so prone to pity and compassion, even after our spouse has attempted every position in the Kama Sutra with our best friend from college?

We are all at varying stages in the process — suffering the first pangs of horror and panic attacks after learning of the ultimate betrayal, followed by the slow, but still sharp pain of realization of how badly we were deceived by the one person we trusted most with our hearts. And the RAGE that seems as if it might consume us from within, but which finally propels us to take the steps necessary to disengage from our marriage or union and look ever so slightly into the future at what life will be like post-divorce. A sigh of relief — the divorce is final, settlement is settled, no-contact is in place (as well as it can be if we are co-parenting with the cheater), the anger subsides, and then….we start to miss them, to edit the past and remember the good times with the person we thought they were.

What’s up with that? Month after month, our cheaters got carpal-tunnel system from texting their APs, sneaked away from family events to bang the babysitter or the next door neighbor or a graduate student or a co-worker, bought the APs fancy dinners or gifts that we never saw the likes of. And we MISS them? Get nostalgic for the happy times? Huh?!


(read the rest here)


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Thank you, Truthseeker. I needed to read that. The ex has been extra nice lately, even though he's continuing on in his relationship with his exit AP. My luck, they're going to be among the 3% of exit affairs that become successful LTRs. When I get going back down the path of sadness and regret, I need to remember his response on DDay, when her text came across his unguarded phone that said "Please don't call me tomorrow. I'm too upset to speak with you right now." He had given me the ILYBINILWY speech a few months prior, swearing there was no one else, and saying he wanted to separate when our rental property became vacant. Then, he had gone to a lawyer behind my back and drafted a dissolution of marriage settlement - I found out about that about two weeks prior. So, here came this text, and I suddenly saw it all very clearly. I read it out loud to him, stating the name of the pig it was from, watched his face turn white as a sheet, and said, "I guess she's upset the divorce isn't moving along fast enough." He looked at me with icicles in his eyes and said, "Pretty much."


Yep. I needed to remember that. And every other stupefyingly insensitive thing he's said to me since. He's being nice now, for, as usual, purely selfish reasons. Not because he's truly sorry about all that he's done to my and our son's lives.

Fvck him and his overly entitled, drama queen girlfriend. They'll both get exactly what they deserve: each other.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Nomorebeans said:


> Thank you, Truthseeker. I needed to read that. The ex has been extra nice lately, even though he's continuing on in his relationship with his exit AP. My luck, they're going to be among the 3% of exit affairs that become successful LTRs. When I get going back down the path of sadness and regret, I need to remember his response on DDay, when her text came across his unguarded phone that said "Please don't call me tomorrow. I'm too upset to speak with you right now." He had given me the ILYBINILWY speech a few months prior, swearing there was no one else, and saying he wanted to separate when our rental property became vacant. Then, he had gone to a lawyer behind my back and drafted a dissolution of marriage settlement - I found out about that about two weeks prior. So, here came this text, and I suddenly saw it all very clearly. I read it out loud to him, stating the name of the pig it was from, watched his face turn white as a sheet, and said, "I guess she's upset the divorce isn't moving along fast enough." He looked at me with icicles in his eyes and said, "Pretty much."
> 
> 
> Yep. I needed to remember that. And every other stupefyingly insensitive thing he's said to me since. He's being nice now, for, as usual, purely selfish reasons. Not because he's truly sorry about all that he's done to my and our son's lives.
> ...


Yeah they do deserve eacch other as for the POSOW...










She deserves all the misery that is coming her way. As I wrote in another thread about chumplady - *"She helps to pick BSs off the floor, dusts them off and tells them to throw the sh!t sandwich their WS served them them right back in their face. If nothing else Chumplady shows the BS they HAVE options and the do not need to cling to the R path. She brings balance to the force. "*


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Having lived through it, it's actually quite simple. If it's an exit affair.

See, it starts with the other person 'giving up' on the marriage, long before you even know it. You truck along for months or years not realizing that the other person is done. You're still there and happy and haven't even BEGUN to morn it, when they're already GETTING OVER YOU.

Because they're already done with you, and they just haven't told you, they're open to someone else. So they start a fling with someone else. See, they're over you and planning on leaving, right, so why not? It comes with an added bonus that if you find out, you'll leave on your own, right? It's a one way road, and the band aid will get ripped off.

So, now they are happily banging said new person, having gotten over you and the marriage, and you're still thinking everything's fine. Maybe you're going through a rough patch, sure...

Then BOOM!

D-day.

Frequently, you get no closure, no answers, no nothing. Just a betrayer spouse who suddenly doesn't give a **** about you and is happily giving someone new what you wanted all along.

And they're MONTHS or YEARS ahead of you regarding letting go of the relationship, with someone already new!

Add to this my thesis that someone that would do such a thing to begin with doesn't emotionally attach to a person the same way than someone that wouldn't...

And, well, you get exactly this scenario. You're still in mourning, they're happily off and ****ing.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Having lived through it, it's actually quite simple. If it's an exit affair.
> 
> See, it starts with the other person 'giving up' on the marriage, long before you even know it. You truck along for months or years not realizing that the other person is done. You're still there and happy and haven't even BEGUN to morn it, when they're already GETTING OVER YOU.
> 
> ...


Like I've said repeatedly Cheaters are the drunk drivers of relationships they kill a family of 4 and frequently walk away without a scratch. Chumplady has their number.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

I count myself lucky that I realized my exww sucked (figuratively and literally) the moment I found out about her cheating. I don't miss her, I wouldn't go back in time and I'm extremely happy I divorced her.

I think it would be really, really difficult if I still pined for her or missed her or loved her. I realize a lot of BS spouses do, even if they divorce their WS. Having your love for them die is so much easier than having it still burn on. I don't envy those that still have the feels for their WS.

The down side is, I don't have the feels for anyone that way and don't know if I ever can again. It really does kill a part of your heart and soul.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Healer said:


> I count myself lucky that I realized my exww sucked (figuratively and literally) the moment I found out about her cheating. I don't miss her, I wouldn't go back in time and I'm extremely happy I divorced her.
> 
> I think it would be really, really difficult if I still pined for her or missed her or loved her. I realize a lot of BS spouses do, even if they divorce their WS. Having your love for them die is so much easier than having it still burn on. I don't envy those that still have the feels for their WS.
> 
> The down side is, I don't have the feels for anyone that way and don't know if I ever can again. It really does kill a part of your heart and soul.


Infidelity changes the BS forever that why it is so vile and chearters deserve whatever misery come their way.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Infidelity changes the BS forever that why it is so vile and chearters deserve whatever misery come their way.


Yup. When it comes to my thoughts on women/relationships, I'd say I'm pretty much damaged goods. It's like I don't even care about trusting someone because I don't let myself open up or be vulnerable enough to allow myself to get hurt should they **** me over.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I also doubt I'll ever be able to trust a man not to betray me again, and will therefore be pretty much alone for the rest of my life. His cheating is the gift that keeps on giving. I can only hope Karma runs over him like a Mack truck someday, and sooner rather than later. That's really all I have to look forward to at this point.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@Healer & @Nomorebeans that is the complete [email protected]#$%^& unfairness of infideliyt - the cheater gets all the orgasms and none of the scars and pain - it infuriates me.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

well how I read into your title, it's different for me. All I can remember is she sucked.....literally on another man!!!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @Healer & @Nomorebeans that is the complete [email protected]#$%^& unfairness of infideliyt - the cheater gets all the orgasms and none of the scars and pain - it infuriates me.


Bah, the answer is to live well.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I haven't told this story, and I feel crappy about telling it, but here goes.

A few months ago my wife and I went to a big dress-up event. With a bunch of her friends.

Sitting across from us, I noticed an attractive, statuesque blonde woman. It was my ex-wife. She noticed me, I noticed her, and we ignored each other.

We went for a walk, the group of us, and walked by her. She stood up to walk around herself, and I actually got a good look at her. She'd be over 40 now, and she was desperately trying to look 25. Had gained weight, too much make-up, dress too tight and short. But still the same her, classical beauty that she was.

She was there alone with a much younger woman, though. And it struck me how much she was still trying to be 25. Here I was, with a beautiful, fit wife, surrounded by a group of friends. And there she was, still beautiful for her age, but really trying hard. No man around. I got to go home that night with my wife who loves me and my kids that think I'm the greatest.

What does she have?

I hope cheating on me and dumping me was worth it. I'm sure she had great sex with her affair partner, and it was all worth it. It has been worth it, for me. 

Seeing her that way really put it into perspective.

Well, that and finding her name on ****** *******. Which is odd, given that she's never remarried.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> I haven't told this story, and I feel crappy about telling it, but here goes.
> 
> A few months ago my wife and I went to a big dress-up event. With a bunch of her friends.
> 
> ...


I do think a lot of BSs stay out of fear...frea ot the unknown, fear they won't or can't find anyone better...not all some do genuinely reconcile but I would bet a lot stay out of fear. You left and found something better...


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I bet the sex with her AP has not been worth it, in the final analysis, Marduk. That's the kind of justice I hope to see someday - him alone and trying too hard to be happy when clearly he isn't, and seeing me with someone who truly loves me and would never cheat on me.

Some might say I must not have ever loved him to wish him harm. I did love the man I thought he was. I hate the one he really is. So maybe that's true.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Nomorebeans said:


> I bet the sex with her AP has not been worth it, in the final analysis, Marduk. That's the kind of justice I hope to see someday - him alone and trying too hard to be happy when clearly he isn't, and seeing me with someone who truly loves me and would never cheat on me.
> *
> Some might say I must not have ever loved him to wish him harm.* I did love the man I thought he was. I hate the one he really is. So maybe that's true.


He betrayed you in the most vile, cruel way imaginable so its normal to want to see the karma bus run him over and then back up.


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## Survivorgirl (Nov 18, 2015)

I have been really thinking about the meaning of karma. I guess we all think that some force in the universe gives them exactly what they deserve. I actually think it is who they are--their vile, despicable personality--that attracts the same type; thus, making the cycle continue: they attract the same type of vicious people to do to them what they have done to us. I hope that makes sense. There is a saying, a liar's punishment is not that he cant' be believed it's he can't believe the truth. So believe it or not, I really think they damage themselves by lying and cheating. It's all they know, attract and become. They live in their own sorry state. The BS? We have a chance. We can choose to move on and find better partners. Just a thought.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Survivorgirl said:


> I have been really thinking about the meaning of karma. I guess we all think that some force in the universe gives them exactly what they deserve. I actually think it is who they are--their vile, despicable personality--that attracts the same type; thus, making the cycle continue: they attract the same type of vicious people to do to them what they have done to us. I hope that makes sense. There is a saying, a liar's punishment is not that he cant' be believed it's he can't believe the truth. So believe it or not, I really think they damage themselves by lying and cheating. It's all they know, attract and become. They live in their own sorry state. The BS? We have a chance. We can choose to move on and find better partners. Just a thought.


I think true remorse, change and R - do happen but are rare -- very rare. I've seen enough in my own life and read stories here and on other sites to believe that cheaters even ones that do "reconcile" rarely feel true remorse or get it - what they feel is the pain of the consequences for their actions which makes them upset. TAM is a good place where people can and do get challenged on their bullsh!t - some other sites let waywards have their own space to cheer each other on and whine about how their BS is a meanie to them after the affair comes to light...

The Bs has a lot of work to do - more than just healing from the affair - but also to get to the bottom of why they chose their partner the way they have...and how they can become a better partner to the next person...its not fair - it never is


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Survivorgirl said:


> I have been really thinking about the meaning of karma. I guess we all think that some force in the universe gives them exactly what they deserve. I actually think it is who they are--their vile, despicable personality--that attracts the same type; thus, making the cycle continue: they attract the same type of vicious people to do to them what they have done to us. I hope that makes sense. There is a saying, a liar's punishment is not that he cant' be believed it's he can't believe the truth. So believe it or not, I really think they damage themselves by lying and cheating. It's all they know, attract and become. They live in their own sorry state. The BS? We have a chance. We can choose to move on and find better partners. Just a thought.


Yes, that is my notion of karma as well. People who mistreat others don't seem to have very happy lives...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

technovelist said:


> Yes, that is my notion of karma as well. People who mistreat others don't seem to have very happy lives...


I also love the line " i never meant to hurt you" - what did they shink screwing another person would do to us..give us a buzz...SMH


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @Healer & @Nomorebeans that is the complete [email protected]#$%^& unfairness of infideliyt - the cheater gets all the orgasms and none of the scars and pain - it infuriates me.


Why do all the BS on here think the cheaters get away scott free with no long term issues? There are WS that end up committing suicide. There are WS who lose the spouse of their dreams only the don't realize it until the BS divorces them and is LONG GONE. Most the time they affair down so the BS was far superior. This means in all liklihood the primary loser is the cheater. Once you can feel compassion and sympathy for the WS as well as the BS, you are most likely fully healed. Until then, you are still tainted by the emotions and have yet to compartmentalize the experience into your story. Hope this helps! DUDE


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Why do all the BS on here think the cheaters get away scott free with no long term issues? There are WS that end up committing suicide. There are WS who lose the spouse of their dreams only the don't realize it until the BS divorces them and is LONG GONE. Most the time they affair down so the BS was far superior. This means in all liklihood the primary loser is the cheater. Once you can feel compassion and sympathy for the WS as well as the BS, you are most likely fully healed. Until then, you are still tainted by the emotions and have yet to compartmentalize the experience into your story. Hope this helps! DUDE


and many walk away scott free...sorry Dude - I have seen a lot of infidelity in my life and not one cheater suffered the conseuqences you describe...the biggest punishment for the cheater I suppose is their own flawed character...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I have seen a lot of infidelity in my life and not one cheater suffered the conseuqences you describe..


haven't seen one or couldn't see one consequence? This is my point, you know logically they are most likely experiencing countless consequences, but the FOG prevents the betrayed from seeing this phenomenon. I get it, its tough, but its true. The WS is hurt very badly, especially if its the female. You will have to trust me on this I guess. DUDE


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> haven't seen one or couldn't see one consequence? This is my point, you know logically they are most likely experiencing countless consequences, but the FOG prevents the betrayed from seeing this phenomenon. I get it, its tough, but its true. The WS is hurt very badly, especially if its the female. You will have to trust me on this I guess. DUDE


Sorry dude - the biggest victim is the BS - they have to deal with a situation created by the cheater - whatever scars the cheater may have are self inflicted...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Sorry dude - the biggest victim is the BS - they have to deal with a situation created by the cheater - whatever scars the cheater may have are self inflicted...


And who can HURT YOU the most, someone else or YOU? I think you can do FAR MORE damage to you than someone else. <-Meet the WAYWARD MIND...Once you grasp this you are almost there. The wayward to some extent, kills off their old self. Yeah the BS is hurt but can heal. The WS has destroyed their emotional state, especially if its a female. DUDE


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## Florida_rosbif (Oct 18, 2015)

In reply to the original posting, this must be the same effect that let's me look back at school and remember the good times, completely overlooking the unjustified beatings by sadistic teachers, the bullies and the rest of the bad ****.

It's human nature, an automatic psychological defence mechanism, to blot out the bad parts so that you can look back wistfully through rose tinted specs. However, I don't think that I'll need a paper journal to remember the pain that followed DDay, the sense of betrayal and the realisation that this was an attack on the very essence of my masculinity and self-esteem.


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## Florida_rosbif (Oct 18, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> And who can HURT YOU the most, someone else or YOU? I think you can do FAR MORE damage to you than someone else. <-Meet the WAYWARD MIND...Once you grasp this you are almost there. The wayward to some extent, kills off their old self. Yeah the BS is hurt but can heal. The WS has destroyed their emotional state, especially if its a female. DUDE


I don't know if that's true Dude, it is possible for the unrepentant to sail onwards through their life in a permanent state of denial if all goes well for them.

However, if karma dictates that they eventually end up in a bad place after the dissolution of their marriage, then they end up going through the introspection and self-questioning that would lead to them realising what they've done.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Florida_rosbif said:


> I don't know if that's true Dude, it is possible for the unrepentant to sail onwards through their life in a permanent state of denial if all goes well for them.
> 
> However, if karma dictates that they eventually end up in a bad place after the dissolution of their marriage, then they end up going through the introspection and self-questioning that would lead to them realising what they've done.


Isn't the unrepentance evidence enough of their f'd upness?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Florida_rosbif said:


> However, I don't think that I'll need a paper journal to remember the pain that followed DDay, the sense of betrayal and the realisation that this was an attack on the very essence of my masculinity and self-esteem.


If healed you will no longer "remember" the pain. Also, you don't derive your masculinity and self-esteem from anyone, this is internal to you and YOU CONTROL THIS...DUDE


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Dude007 said:


> If healed you will no longer "remember" the pain. Also, you don't derive your masculinity and self-esteem from anyone, this is internal to you and YOU CONTROL THIS...DUDE


Sure you do.
You can heal, but forgetting the pain is actually not healthy. The pain is what propelled you to actually recover from the betrayal. You don't need to wallow in it, but to forget the pain is not healthy either. It is part of life. There's good and bad and pretending one part of life didn't take place is not realistic.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

While there is some immediate relief and even gratification thinking that the WS is somehow suffering, the fact is the BS is still thinking about the WS. The best course of action is to practice indifference. No good comes from hanging onto the anger and bitterness. Imagining karma working its magic or being upset that it doesn't are just distractions from the person you should be focusing on - YOU.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Ynot said:


> While there is some immediate relief and even gratification thinking that the WS is somehow suffering, the fact is the BS is still thinking about the WS. The best course of action is to practice indifference. No good comes from hanging onto the anger and bitterness. Imagining karma working its magic or being upset that it doesn't are just distractions from the person you should be focusing on - YOU.


Yeah I'm skeptical of karma - I do believe if the WS is truly that flawed their flaws will allow them to make bad decisions which will make their lives miserable - but thats not karma that is failing to be introspective and improve oneself...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Sure you do.
> You can heal, but forgetting the pain is actually not healthy. The pain is what propelled you to actually recover from the betrayal. You don't need to wallow in it, but to forget the pain is not healthy either. It is part of life. There's good and bad and pretending one part of life didn't take place is not realistic.


Who is pretending? you may remember but you don't feel. So it can't be described as pain. Pain is something you feel. A memory is a memory, if compartmentalized you don't have any feelings associated it. Its been filed in long term memory. DUDE


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Compartmentalization is one of the sad coping mechanisms of cheaters, particularly serial cheaters. They separate their cheating lives from their married lives so they don't have to deal with the hurt and consequences of their actions. I try to stay far away from compartmentalization whenever possible.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Compartmentalization is one of the sad coping mechanisms of cheaters, particularly serial cheaters. They separate their cheating lives from their married lives so they don't have to deal with the hurt and consequences of their actions. I try to stay far away from compartmentalization whenever possible.


So a BS who can compartmentalize is a born WS, they just didnt know they had the skill set. DAMN!!!!!!!!!! DUDE


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Dude007 said:


> So a BS who can compartmentalize is a born WS, they just didnt know they had the skill set. DAMN!!!!!!!!!! DUDE


Don't be silly.

My point is that using compartmentalization techniques to get through life isn't always healthy, just like forgetting the pain of infidelity. Face it head on.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

You can't feel memories stored in long term memory. Just FYI
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Dude, are you aware that what you are discussing isn't compartmentalization at all, but just outright repression of a painful emotion.

Block away, young man.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You CAN feel memories stored away in LT memory. Good and bad....

How do you think I can write heart wrenching novels? You can't just "make it up" readers would see it....

Same reason why TAM calls out people who are fulla crap with made up stories.

In my D, I knew she would return.... she did, several times. I knew the outcome....

Am I better off now than I was three years ago? He!! yes. Her? LOL who knows, who cares....

Fact is......... at times she was wonderful, other times she was a pathetic snail

Who she was........ always will love that person... but she died....

Who she turned into was... a stranger. A lost person.... running from something....

If she stopped running, maybe she would see what it is she is trying to elude. I doubt she ever will...


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## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

marduk said:


> Having lived through it, it's actually quite simple. If it's an exit affair.
> 
> See, it starts with the other person 'giving up' on the marriage, long before you even know it. You truck along for months or years not realizing that the other person is done. You're still there and happy and haven't even BEGUN to morn it, when they're already GETTING OVER YOU.
> 
> ...


Bingo!!

Living this as we speak. Such utter garbage.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Dude, are you aware that what you are discussing isn't compartmentalization at all, but just outright repression of a painful emotion.
> 
> Block away, young man.


Actually its worse than what you infer, I have limited "Feelings" due to my personality both Good and Bad. Meaning Love is a very limited feeling and so is hurt. When loved ones have died(grandma/father) I barely shed a tear and was only "down" a day or two. So I probably can't comprehend the pain more that repression if this makes sense. I'm a SOLID ENTP...What is your myers-briggs? This will help me understand your perspectve and you mine. DUDE


Portrait of an ENTP - Extraverted iNtuitive Thinking Perceiving
(Extraverted Intuition with Introverted Thinking)

The Visionary

As an ENTP, your primary mode of living is focused externally, where you take things in primarily via your intuition. Your secondary mode is internal, where you deal with things rationally and logically.

Do all ENTPs suck at having romantic feelings? self.entp
Submitted 1 year ago by [deleted]
In a lot of the comments and articles I've read about ENTPs, it seems like we're all just awful at experiencing romantic feelings because we think too much about the future and the implications of falling in love as opposed to many FPs and Sensors. We naturally have these large and grandiose plans and visions that tend to make us think and plan too much instead of just feel and go with our gut.

Portrait of an ENTP


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Healer said:


> I count myself lucky that I realized my exww sucked (figuratively and literally) the moment I found out about her cheating. I don't miss her, I wouldn't go back in time and I'm extremely happy I divorced her.
> 
> I think it would be really, really difficult if I still pined for her or missed her or loved her. I realize a lot of BS spouses do, even if they divorce their WS. Having your love for them die is so much easier than having it still burn on. I don't envy those that still have the feels for their WS.
> 
> The down side is, I don't have the feels for anyone that way and don't know if I ever can again. It really does kill a part of your heart and soul.


It's kinda the same feeling you have when you're in a bad relationship for a long time. If you get out one day, you really don't know if you can trust anyone enough to have a healthy relationship with again... and if your spouse eventually realizes what they did and tries to make it up to you, you'll never really trust them (fully) again. Either way it kills a part of you'll never really know you'll ever get back.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If you can not trust, you can not love..... not in a healthy way


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Jeez so the feeling dominant types who are betrayed are literally scarred and can never fully heal because they actually give a rats ass?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Dude........ to dismiss is to "put away," "avoid," "ignore," yet the burning ember is still there

Eventually it must be confronted.... the band aid will be ripped off

Deniability is a great defense but it is temporary.... the ghosts always return

If I stood fast and thought I was A-1 perfect in my M, I would have been lying to myself...

I admitted my mistakes, accepted them... no one is perfect

She never admitted anything.... until it was way too late

In late November '12 I was a scared person, suffering from the gas lighting

In late December '12 I stepped away from everything and looked to the light

In late January '13 I spoke through her, not to her. As Neo.... I believed. She was scared to death, worried, 

had bumps on her face... nerves. "Not my f'ing problem."

I gave the best I could.... I offered a lifeline.... she refused. I tore up the non-negotiable a week before

the D final.

How is she / how am I..... I'll bet my 62 Vette she wakes up at night more than I do wondering WTF have I done


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

So you admit mistakes and move on. Sounds logical to me. So what is the problem then?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Dude007 said:


> So you admit mistakes and move on. Sounds logical to me. So what is the problem then?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You stated
You can't feel memories stored in long term memory. Just FYI

I debunked it.....

Is there a problem?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

I got no problem and I don't feel memories committed to long term, hardly even short term so the debunking is debunked. Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Then your belief is yours, and yours alone to feel


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Maybe what yall are feeling is still a grieving process? If so then it's just not complete yet possibly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Grieving does not involve positive concepts and upward enhancement...


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Actually its worse than what you infer, I have limited "Feelings" due to my personality both Good and Bad. Meaning Love is a very limited feeling and so is hurt. When loved ones have died(grandma/father) I barely shed a tear and was only "down" a day or two. So I probably can't comprehend the pain more that repression if this makes sense. I'm a SOLID ENTP...What is your myers-briggs? This will help me understand your perspectve and you mine. DUDE


Dude: I'm an INTJ...so is my husband which is why I rarely comment on these threads. I just don't understand people that get mired in this stuff.

My mother got divorced in her 40s and could NEVER completely move past it. She discussed it for 30 years in very enthusiastic terms and would often draw analogies to it when discussions about other things took place. Although I loved my mom very much, I could honestly just never understood why someone would spend so much time and energy dwelling on nonsense. She could never get over my father's cheating on her with multiple women and I didn't get it. It had nothing to do with her. It was just the way he was....I knew that when I was 5.

Bottom line, he wasn't happy with my mother...probably for his own defects, not hers and chose to be with other women. Big deal...move on. In my own case, my ex-husband may have been with other women...I gave him permission to do so. I never checked cause I didn't care...its irrelevant. I didn't want to be married to him anymore so what he did with his time or his penis was his business. I didn't own him and didn't enjoy his company anymore anyway. Since we got divorced, I've never spoken to him or been curious about what he's doing. I don't know anything about him and have no interest in what he's doing. That's his business.

I just cannot understand internalizing other people's actions. The only thing required is to try to analyze the things that you did wrong that may have contributed to the downfall of the relationship overall but that doesn't mean you internalize an affair...usually it has nothing to do with the BS...unless there's some serious alienation of affection over long periods of time. And even then, the other partner has an obligation to get a legal separation first.

But I also know this is a product of my personality type. I'm cannot understand people who waste their precious time and energy in life on emotional drivel over someone not worth two dead flies. Spending time thinking about an ex-marriage is only worthwhile if its productive to something you need to work on or fix about yourself...not if all you can do is flame about your ex. Spending all your energy being angry and wishing bad karma on an ex is stupid...they don't care, they've moved on with their lives and you're still thinking about them, giving them your energy and emotion and giving them far more relevance than they deserve.

I literally don't even remember having much of an emotional response to my divorce. I just knew that I had gathered plenty of data to know I had to get a divorce and I needed a solid plan to do so to ensure that my children were ok.

I spent my time investing in finding someone far more important to spend my time on. But again Dude, you have a personality type that makes it difficult to understand the other 90~%.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

"I spent my time investing in finding someone far more important to spend my time on. But again Dude, you have a personality type that makes it difficult to understand the other 90~%."

Nail on my head!! I tried to explain myself but it's alien to the peeps or they think I'm suppressing something, again nope! My mind just doesn't work that way!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Nail on my head!! I tried to explain myself but it's alien to the peeps or they think I'm suppressing something, again nope! My mind just doesn't work that way!


Believe me, I get it.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> Actually its worse than what you infer, I have limited "Feelings" due to my personality both Good and Bad. Meaning Love is a very limited feeling and so is hurt. When loved ones have died(grandma/father) I barely shed a tear and was only "down" a day or two. So I probably can't comprehend the pain more that repression if this makes sense. I'm a SOLID ENTP...What is your myers-briggs? This will help me understand your perspectve and you mine. DUDE
> 
> 
> Portrait of an ENTP - Extraverted iNtuitive Thinking Perceiving
> ...


I'm not sure MBTI explains this.

I'm a solid ENTP too. However, I definitely have romantic feelings and can be hurt by meanness on the part of my wife (or anyone else I care about).


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> *If you can not trust, you can not love*..... not in a healthy way


Not in a Healthy Way? Probably right...

In my youth it was all Black and White. Being cheated on.. it all just a bunch of grey. Absolutes are no more.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Absolutes, black and white, are all boring!! Sorry too much ENTP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Techno if u have strong romantic feelings u can not be a strong Entp. They are mutually exclusive. Entp just get bored of people too fast. They don't care enough to be hurt. We just wonder where the next party is at??!! Or who is gonna talk to us because we are just that damnn cool!!! Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> Techno if u have strong romantic feelings u can not be a strong Entp. They are mutually exclusive. Entp just get bored of people too fast. They don't care enough to be hurt. We just wonder where the next party is at??!! Or who is gonna talk to us because we are just that damnn cool!!! Dude


Sorry, but I have had my type confirmed by an official MBTI test by a certified test administrator. It shows the following preferences, all with 30 as the maximum preference level:

E 19
N 30
T 22
P 20

All of those are fairly strong preferences, not wishy-washy.

I have also taken online tests, all of which produce the same type.

So I don't think your analysis is correct...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Sorry, but I have had my type confirmed by an official MBTI test by a certified test administrator. It shows the following preferences, all with 30 as the maximum preference level:
> 
> E 19
> N 30
> ...


Yet you FEEL???!! That should be very recessive! Not arguing, just seeing it from my ENTP perspective. Do you grow bored of people fast? DUDE


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

I too had a professional facilitator. It cost over $1000 per employee and our entire dept was analyzed. DUDE


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> Maybe what yall are feeling is still a grieving process? If so then it's just not complete yet possibly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Many grieve and put that behind them but also are forever changed by infidelity. I am no where near what I was when married. my thoughts, opinions and expectations of myself and my relationship are about as different as they could be from them. Doesn't mean I haven't dealt with and movec pasted it.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

"Many grieve and put that behind them but also are forever changed by infidelity" and I appreciate you using the term "many" rather than "all". This implies you agree that some folks can bounce back, maybe even better than before. So therefore I totally agree with you!! DUDE


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> "Many grieve and put that behind them but also are forever changed by infidelity" and I appreciate you using the term "many" rather than "all". This implies you agree that some folks can bounce back, maybe even better than before. So therefore I totally agree with you!! DUDE


Maybe some don't recognize the change as good since we all tend to cling to ideals we previously held (especially in regards to love, marriage and relationships). Or maybe the change for some people isn't good because they still cling to those ideals that have proven to be invalid or incorrect in their own experience. Instead they become embittered and angry


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Well I agree Y, but was trying to win the argument wout pointing out anyone could come out ahead, if they want to do the work. If they don't, then yes, they are forever changed for the worse. It's umtimately a choice. Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> Yet you FEEL???!! That should be very recessive! Not arguing, just seeing it from my ENTP perspective. Do you grow bored of people fast? DUDE


Of course NTs have feelings; they just don't try to use them to make decisions, because that's not what they're for.

Of course you have to consider feelings in making decisions, but then make the decisions rationally.

I don't get bored with people fast... if they're interesting people. :smile2:


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Actually my feelings are very recessive. I laugh and make jokes at funerals because it's funny to me. It's not a coping mechanism, I actually view the world that way. I used to think something was wrong w me til I joined personality cafe after finding out I was Entp and low and behold there is an army of us out there. Well like 3 percent of population. Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Well I agree Y, but was trying to win the argument wout pointing out anyone could come out ahead, if they want to do the work. If they don't, then yes, they are forever changed for the worse. It's umtimately a choice. Dude


My opinion (and this is only my opinion) is that there are number of people-some of them on this forum-that seem to almost invest in the pain of a divorce to the point where it defines them. In fact, they almost relish dwelling in it. They refuse to choose to move on and it IS ultimately a choice.

Affairs are a devastating but there's really nothing worse than letting a partner who cheated on you change your perspective on life and the opposite sex or to make you bitter, angry and wishing for bad karma for the rest of your life.

Honestly, its like drinking poison and expecting the other person to drop dead. Simply put...its stupid and the only damage you're doing is to yourself. Your ex doesn't care.

I do not understand people that dwell on this stuff long-term. I've known women that are bitter and angry for ridiculous amounts of time after this stuff happens. There was a woman on this forum not that long ago who was still claiming devastation about an affair almost 30 years after it happened. Seriously?!?

But like I said, I recognize that its largely a component of my personality type. I have trouble understanding irrationality. Its not that I don't have emotions...they just usually come secondarily to making decisions and it makes zero sense to waste energy on a long-gone cheating spouse to me. I see so many stories of divorced spouses still arguing with their ex, facebook stalking them and knowing about every detail of their lives...and I seriously don't understand why someone would invest in someone who doesn't care about them that way. Its self-destructive, bizarre behavior from someone who wants absolute negativity in their life as long as that life is still someone connected to someone that treated them like trash. 

I think there's just far too many people that love to be miserable and angry. They're literally invested in being a victim and finding other victims to vent to rather than actually finding happiness. Its not logical to me.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Summed up "Its not logical to me."

Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I think there's just far too many people that love to be miserable and angry. They're literally invested in being a victim and finding other victims to vent to rather than actually finding happiness. Its not logical to me.


Guilty as Charged.

My only defense... that Warm Fuzzy Blanket of Pain is mighty large. Plenty of room for all to get under.

Seriously, I asked my IC about these feeling... She said it all a self-defense mechanism, very common to the betrayed.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Rwb, the good news is you recognize it and you are fixing it!!! Go you!!

Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> My opinion (and this is only my opinion) is that there are number of people-some of them on this forum-that seem to almost invest in the pain of a divorce to the point where it defines them. In fact, they almost relish dwelling in it. They refuse to choose to move on and it IS ultimately a choice.
> 
> Affairs are a devastating but there's really nothing worse than letting a partner who cheated on you change your perspective on life and the opposite sex or to make you bitter, angry and wishing for bad karma for the rest of your life.
> 
> ...


Excellent points...recovery takes hard work...and the BS needs to dig in as soon as possible...easier said than done I'm afraid..but great post!!!


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Excellent points...recovery takes hard work...and the BS needs to dig in as soon as possible...easier said than done I'm afraid..but great post!!!


AND, if they can slow down their emotional response, and raise the LOGICAL RESPONSE, guess what??!! Maybe BS wants out anyway and no one will be mad at them for leaving?(guilt free leaver) Maybe BS wanted to start a new career in another town? Maybe BS wants to go to Europe for a month and just say F it! Maybe BS remembers that old flame messaging them on Facebook that they ignored? If the BS can subdue the hurt and pain, they can SPRING to LIFE LIKE NEVER BEFORE!!! If they would only THINK of all the benefits derived???! Or be pissed and angry...IDK DUDE


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> AND, if they can slow down their emotional response, and raise the LOGICAL RESPONSE, guess what??!! Maybe BS wants out anyway and no one will be mad at them for leaving?(guilt free leaver) Maybe BS wanted to start a new career in another town? Maybe BS wants to go to Europe for a month and just say F it! Maybe BS remembers that old flame messaging them on Facebook that they ignored? If the BS can subdue the hurt and pain, they can SPRING to LIFE LIKE NEVER BEFORE!!! If they would only THINK of all the benefits derived???! Or be pissed and angry...IDK DUDE


The points you make are logical..sometimes emotions cloud everything...which is why Im a big propononet of IC to help guide a person if needed...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

RWB said:


> Not in a Healthy Way? Probably right...
> 
> In my youth it was all Black and White. Being cheated on.. it all just a bunch of grey. Absolutes are no more.


One must be concrete before they are abstract..... 

99.9% of people wear "rose tinted" glasses at some time..... sad thing is, some never take them off


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> The points you make are logical..sometimes emotions cloud everything...which is why Im a big propononet of IC to help guide a person if needed...


I think the problem is that too many people *invest* in misery. 

They tell the same story over and over to get attention and sympathy often relishing a new audience so they can go through the tiresome detail again and again. They concentrate on and live in the pain every day often using it as an excuse to avoid reality. They villify the ex in every way possible and never examine the relationship as a whole to avoid taking culpability in anything that transpired (and I don't mean the affair, I mean the decline of the relationship). They attach to the ex's new life and new partners in a very clingy, bizarre way...knowing an unnecessary amount of detail and often using their own children to gain purchase to nose into the ex's relationships. In fact, they have no issue with involving their children in a lot of unhealthy aspects of the now-over marriage and divorce. I could go on and on...

Its so self-destructive and it often lasts for a really unnatural amount of time. Like I said, my mother had some of these traits and it was no fun for us kids growing up. 

I see a lot of people like that on this forum...more often women, since they tend to be have personalities that are more based on emotion than logic/analysis/introspection.

Again, I realize that I have issues understanding this type of behavior because of my personality type but to be honest, I feel very fortunate that I'm not this way. Divorce was a brutal process for me legally but emotionally, I'll admit it was pretty simple and I feel like I got out of it fairly unscathed. I also saved my children from the trauma of an emotionally irrational mother who put her own needs in front of theirs. Divorce was an investment for me...in myself and fixing the things I do wrong...in learning about what I need and what I want to do with my future life.

I think it really can be a positive experience if you're willing to do the work. A lot of people just make the choice to get stuck though....its tragic.


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