# Goodbye and Thank You to Everyone



## Forever Changed

Hi there TAMMERS,

This will be my last thread. As from tomorrow, the 1st of January 2014 I will not be coming back to TAM.

I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, I can't thank everyone enough here for the advice, encouragement and the listening of my crazy rants. My life has been Hell since the 8th of July 2012. But now, it is time to move on.

I often think that if I went against all the advice and begged and pleaded with EXW that we may not have gotten divorced. But I know this would have made me look like a clingy, needy little boy. The 180 was invaluable in helping me unlove her.

Sure, there is a little love left in my heart for her, but my brain says no, Dan, there isn't. I listen to my head now.

And sometimes I wonder if she thinks why I didn't fight for her - because to her, I went NC and did the 180 as soon as I learnt about it. She knows nothing of this site and all the lessons I have learnt. 

Because of this experience, and the lessons I have learnt from TAM I am the Man that I should have been years ago. Somehow, in ways I will never understand, this was the way it was meant to be.

We were both very sick at the time. It's just shame that there was no MC, no trial separation or anything. Oh well. She made her mind up and that was that.

Can't change that. 

I hope Sarah, that you find a good man that will fit in with your family and love you.

In years to come, I will teach Declan the lessons I have learnt and how he should never be a Doormat, or a Nice Guy. He needs to look after himself, and say no to things without feeling guilty. And also to be very, very careful in choosing his future wife. I will teach him about Red Flags, Fitness Tests, The Game and everything that goes with relationships. 

So, again I want to say thank you so very much to everyone.

I have been though Hell, lost my sanity and had many breakdowns.

But, now, I am back. Recovered. Healed. I never thought I would reach this point.

I wish everyone here peace, joy, happiness and love in 2014.

Signing off,

Daniel.


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## Jellybeans

Forever, you will be missed!

Wishing you all of the best in 2014 and in your future!


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## anchorwatch

Best wishes, Dan. Good health to you and Declan.


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## TBT

Daniel,what can I say? You know I've only always wished the best for you and young D.I hope that the future brings you a real and abiding peace and that you and Declan make some wonderful memories together throughout the coming years.Take care and stay strong Dan.I'll be sending a prayer along the way.

TBT


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## manticore

wish the best man, I hope in the future you can spend alot of more time with your Little one and lead the life you deserve, you have a lot of good in you.

remember even if you have moved on, you can always return to let us know how are you and how good life have treated you now.


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## Forever Changed

You know, one day I may return and share my experiences with a girl that truly loves me, as I love her.

You never know.


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## arbitrator

Forever Changed said:


> You know, one day I may return and share my experiences with a girl that truly loves me, as I love her.
> 
> You never know.


*That's the very least that we can expect of you, FC! Best of luck to you, Kind Sir, and please don't be a stranger!*


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## 2ntnuf

Good luck, Dan. I hope you find the peace and joy that I know you deserve. I'm sorry that you had to go through all of this. I'm glad that you are okay. I wish and pray only for the very best for you, D, and your family. I will look forward to the day you come back with happy news of a new loving happy relationship. God Bless You, Dan. I will miss you.

2ntnuf


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## ne9907

Good luck and you will be missed!
But it is great to hear you are better!!


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## angelpixie

Good luck, Dan. I've been pulling for you since you first landed on TAM. I'm proud of how you've learned and not given up on you or on Declan. Keep on going! Your boy will be so proud of you as he gets older. 

I agree with the others. Don't forget us here -- stop by and give us an update now and then. I have no doubt that you will find a very special woman one day, one with whom you and Declan can have a wonderful family.

Hugs, sweetie!!


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## Forever Changed

Hi again everyone,

I'm sorry to come back here, but I had nowhere else to turn. If I thought I was scared and alone way back when, that was only the beginning.

I have had a rough few weeks. EXW has bought a house 5 minutes away from her parents. I hope she is happy and that Declan is settling in.

I am having huge trouble with being abandonded and left to rot. I simply cannot understand how soulless she is. I checked her FB page (which surprisingly, didnt kill me). It indeed appears that she is Finding Herself and going out with the girls and drinking a lot of wine and having a good time. Which is none of my business.

I dont know what I am trying to say but the part of me that was Dan - he has gone to sleep now. He was too sad and tired, so he is asleep now. I don't want to wake him - he cannot take anymore.

But now, this new version of me has a heart made of stone, I am deeply suspicious of every single person and think that they are all devils ready to attack me. There has been a few times over the past couple of months where I have dared place a little bit of trust in them, only to be trashed. It hurt. If I haven't learnt my lesson about people now, I am an idiot.

She texted last week about Skype, and when it could work around her visitors - I felt like she was tapping me on head and going there, there - you can see your son but only when I an not going out of my way. I said leave it till next weekend. I couldn't take it. Had a horrific experience with the doctors on the Saturday which shook me up very, very much and I could not take anymore. Hence over the last couple of days 'going to sleep'.

Yesterday I cut myself becuase I was so frustrated with everything - this is ok. Makes me feel better. I will take physical pain any day over mental pain. I do pray with my heart and soul every night that God calls me home, I reach up to the stars and cry and hope that it is my last night. But this is ok too.

At least Declan knows me. On out last visit, FIL said that every time there is Skype getting ready he gets all excited and says Dad-da, Dad-da and a few other things. More in 5 seconds with XFIL than EXW in one year. And when we did have Skype, I was being all silly and so was Declan and EXW said that 'look, he's copying you.'. That was special.

Just distressed today. And sometimes I fear I am losing my grip on reality. 4 walls and your own thoughts can do that. 

Thanks for listening,

FC


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## Healer

I'm sorry you're in pain. Are you not able to see your son more than you do? What's the custody arrangement? Seems like you need more of him in your life and vice versa...


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## Forever Changed

She lives hundred of miles away, and we have a Parenting 'Plan'. But she adjusts this to whatever she wants, with the bare minimum. I just agree. I can't fight anymore.

Yes, I can see him whenever. But there are so many external factors from preventing me. Too many to go it to. If I could be there every weekend I would be.

I am deathly scared of her. Scared of her cruelty, which she inflicts. I mean, scared, terrified. Pertrified. I can't ever explain to people how much. 

She has thrown me out like rubbish. I talked to the legal people and I have an appt on the 20th of Feb, but I will cancel that. I can't take it. She will crucify me, she will be angry and I my mind is only just hanging on. I am really, really worried that I will lose my mind. Yes, I am a damaged person. Very damaged.

I'm just trying to survive, and at this point I have to put Declan out of my mind (he is just turned 21 months) so the sadness doesnt cripple me. 

It's a struggle.


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## lenzi

You sound like you're experiencing high anxiety.

There are meds for that.


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## Forever Changed

Yes. Meds. I have been taking Xanax since 2005. 

So I go to the chemist only to be informed that on that day, that very day they are now 'Narcotics'. 'Schedule 8'. 'Open to Abuse'. Had to go back to the doctor who treated me like a drug addict (he is not the one I usually see). He was really insulting. Eventually got a different anti anxiety med. No one told me any of this. Cost me money which I don't have just because my doctors incompetence. Chemist said they even told him the new rules not 2 days before I saw him!

So that ruined my Saturday. 

If only I could go to Hospital for a 'rest'. But this is not an option. Just ranting here today.


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## Morgiana

FC, I get the fear; I am afraid of my ex as well. With all the issues you are having now, are you on any medication for depression? If you aren't able to work through the fear at this point, maybe it is time to seek assistance. Living in fear isn't the way life is supposed to be .


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## Morgiana

Another coping mechanism Ive had is to say to myself, what is the worst he could do to me? What are you at the base of your fear, afraid of? I was afraid he was going to win in court during custody because he is an unabashed liar and a very difficult person. The weeks before the custody case were my worst time; i kept my therapist through the time just because I was afraid of what I may do to myself if I lost split custody. That was the core of my fear, and I managed to get past it. 

What are you really and utterly afraid of?


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## Forever Changed

I am scared of her emotional cruelty.

But at the core of my fear, I am scared of her taking my boy away from me forever.

And of her absolutely crucifying me should I rock the boat. I was an alcoholic with crippling anxiety. That's why she left. I can't even explain the fear, it was there before she left me. The dread of coming home. The walking on eggshells. The parents in law.

But you are right in what you say, what else could she do? She has taken everything. But oh no, she is something else entirely. Her cruelty knows no boundaries and at least with this, it's the devil I do know. Time after time she has hurt me immensely, and I just don't know what she is capable of. And she enjoys it.

Yes, I could MAN UP and pick up the phone. I've tried to pretend to dial and talk to her - and I can't speak.


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## Forever Changed

Please note that I paint myself in the worst possible light.


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## 2ntnuf

One of these has to be worth the time spent reading, right? 


How to Overcome and Conquer Your Fears | The Art of Manliness

Panic Attacks and Fear

Fear of the unknown | 2KnowMySelf

Fear of the Unknown: How Can I Overcome It?

Conquering Uncertainty: How to Overcome Fear of the Unknown

11 ways to conquer your fear of change - positively present


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## Forever Changed

Thank you very much 2NT, I shall read them after work so the words sink in. The worst part of this whole process has been the fear and the terror.


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## 2ntnuf

Believe me. I do know something about that fear and terror. It is crippling. It may not totally go, but as you do little things to check yourself before you decide to make a move, you will see that making the move is less painful. You will learn to trust yourself a little at a time. That was the key for me to get over some of that fear. You also need to forgive yourself for what you could not control. You can't control anyone, but yourself. You can only do what you know. How can you rightly hold yourself responsible for what you did not know? If I was taught 1 + 1 = 3, it will always equal three to me and I will argue that point. Once I learn that it actually equals, 2, and I accept that, I can procede to 1 + 2 = 3, and so on. I was wrong, but I was just mistaken in my beliefs. I knew no better than what I learned. It's like dealing with the alcoholism. One step at a time. Be gentle with yourself. You deserve it.


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## MSP

Find someone happy to hang out with. Anyone. Join a club of some kind. Join a therapy group--anything. 

Please try to do some kind of exercise. If I can start, you can. When I began lifting weights in late 2012 I had just spent nearly a year sleeping for an average of 2 hours per night; I had a full time job; my marriage was as good as over (I thought); I had a brain injury; and even worse besides that I don't want to get into. 

Spend some time in nature. Even if you just sit in a park for 15 minutes a day, it will help. Nature is healing. 

Take a good multi-vitamin, because stress messes with you almost as badly as poor eating does. 

Here's a supplement you can get over the counter at a health food store that will stop your brain from spinning over the same stuff all the time: n-acetylcysteine (often just called NAC). It works quite well and can help you sleep, too.

ETA WARNING: n-acetylcysteine should not be taken with lithium or antidepressants containing lithium. Consult a doctor first.


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## Jellybeans

Hey Forever! I am sorry to hear you are so down! Please do not cut yourself. Nothing good will come from that. You need to be healthy and that is not the way to get to a healthier place.

Sometimes you have to go through a LOT of bad before you start to get to the good. 

It may help if you pick up some exercising and meet up/call up old friends. Get a good support system you can talk to. Meet new people. Find a new hobby, take a day trip somewhere you've always been meaning to go but haven't yet (it doesn't have to be far away). Get some sunlight. Get out of your house. Fresh air is a Godsend.

You are stronger than all this ickiness. Promise.

Hugs!


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## arbitrator

*FC: Please get involved with a group and find yourself a church who might help restore your faith, more especially in yourself.

To a certain extent, I still fear my rich skanky XW for what she might conceivably try to do to me. But I can't let that bother me in that I have put my full faith in God to help to fully deliver me.

You're a good man, FC! Let the world see that in you! And please come back to us anytime that you please. After all, your absence from us will be duly noted! Take care of yourself and Godspeed, my friend!*


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## Jellybeans

Today is World Cancer Day.

I hope one day there is no cancer at all! I hope you kick that cancer in the A$$, Forever!


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## Forever Changed

Thanks for all your kind words everyone. I appreciated all of your advice very much. Believe me I am trying, trying my best to do what all of you say. I feel very strange today. Which is not unusual.

Though I did face my fears by texting EXW this morning to ask if she was ok to Skype this Sunday. Baby Steps. I asked how Declan was settling in, she said that he is settling in much better. I asked her how she was, and I hope all is well. So, Skype this Sunday arvo. It is my duty as a father for Declan to see me, no matter how much it affects me. But it is getting a lot, lot better. 

I feel that the whole world is against me. I really do. It seems that if I open my mouth, people tell me how it is, if I keep quiet and try to do what I think is right - people still persecute me. No one is listening. No one. I can't get through to people even if I talk until I'm blue in the face!

People laugh at my pain, embarrassment and sadness. I feel that no matter what I do, or what I say, people put me down, minimize me and basically make me feel like an idiot.

And my mama, bless her heart, I love her very, very much. But she has this habit (and she has done this to me all my life, again, it is not her fault and I cannot tell her how I feel) - I tell her something which is positive (to me) and she puts this 'spin' on it, the tone of her voice, the statements that make me INSTANTLY DOUBT or worse, when I make the SMALLEST mistake, FEEL THAT THE WHOLE WORLD IS POINTING AT ME LIKE I AM THE WORST PERSON ON EARTH. Throughout my entire life, this is how it has been. 

Siggghhh. Sometimes my mind doesn't know where to go. I have a headache. Thanks for listening.


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## 2ntnuf

Forever Changed said:


> Thanks for all your kind words everyone. I appreciated all of your advice very much. Believe me I am trying, trying my best to do what all of you say. I feel very strange today. Which is not unusual.


You are welcome. Good for you. Do whatever you need to do.




Forever Changed said:


> Though I did face my fears by texting EXW this morning to ask if she was ok to Skype this Sunday. Baby Steps. I asked how Declan was settling in, she said that he is settling in much better. I asked her how she was, and I hope all is well. So, Skype this Sunday arvo. It is my duty as a father for Declan to see me, no matter how much it affects me. But it is getting a lot, lot better.


Well, not, "no matter how much it affects me". I wouldn't say that. I am sorry if I made it seem like that. I was wrong. I do not want you to feel horrible for not seeing him. I think you have other work to do on yourself. There are ways to communicate with him other than skype. You can write to him and send it, "return receipt requested". You can record you voice, reading him a story and ask questions or talk about it and send it to him on some storage device. You can send him a card, once in a while. You don't have to write anything to your exwife. If you want to talk with her about him, you can keep it to him and not ask how she is. You can ask how Declan is. That is in your hands. 

You can also stop all contact, but I don't think, even your ex would want that. I just think she wants you to stop pining over her. It's a big job and you aren't ready to do that. That's something you have to work on. 

I think you need a great deal of counseling. 



Forever Changed said:


> I feel that the whole world is against me. I really do. It seems that if I open my mouth, people tell me how it is, if I keep quiet and try to do what I think is right - people still persecute me. No one is listening. No one. I can't get through to people even if I talk until I'm blue in the face!


It's not, though, your feelings are not right or wrong. They can't understand. They can't feel what you do. They can't experience it from your perspective. You are not wrong. You are an individual. Each of us is different. It is what makes the world such an amazing place. 



Forever Changed said:


> People laugh at my pain, embarrassment and sadness. I feel that no matter what I do, or what I say, people put me down, minimize me and basically make me feel like an idiot.


Some folks will never understand your pain. I encounter them, too. It's because they have not experienced the level of pain you have. You might find it helpful to learn to look at things in perspective. They cannot know you. It's not their fault and it's not yours. It just shows a lack of understanding.



Forever Changed said:


> And my mama, bless her heart, I love her very, very much. But she has this habit (and she has done this to me all my life, again, it is not her fault and I cannot tell her how I feel) - I tell her something which is positive (to me) and she puts this 'spin' on it, the tone of her voice, the statements that make me INSTANTLY DOUBT or worse, when I make the SMALLEST mistake, FEEL THAT THE WHOLE WORLD IS POINTING AT ME LIKE I AM THE WORST PERSON ON EARTH. Throughout my entire life, this is how it has been.


When the most important person in your whole life, makes you feel inadequate, even though they don't mean it, and they love you, a person cannot help, but have that color all other things he does in his life. He cannot separate that he does have an opinion, that is important. He believes everyone else is correct because he has been told he is not by that one person who means all to him. 

It is a way to keep you close because you need her to help you think. What you may not realise is, you are intelligent and you have to know that to move forward in any part of life. You do trust yourself, or you would not come here and write. When you don't understand, ask. When you are not confident, seek out and read articles. Check the author's other works to be as certain as you can of reliability. Then, read and remove what doesn't seem to fit. Trust your gut some. Check on the things. 

You need to see a counselor for this. It's important, FC. 



Forever Changed said:


> Siggghhh. Sometimes my mind doesn't know where to go. I have a headache. Thanks for listening.


By all means, the ball is in your court. Do not contact anyone, if you cannot. Do not follow anyone's advice, if it will harm you. I do not think less of you. I have not laughed at you. I've only cried with you. I've only prayed for you. I've only tried to help. I am not a doctor and you do need to talk to someone. 

Do not worry about what others think. I know, I will understand. I am unimportant, in the greater scheme of your life. You are what is most important. You cannot do a thing for anyone if you don't put your health and welfare first. Please ignore anything else I've written to protect your health. I do not mean to push so hard to get you to talk to anyone. I do wish only the best for you.


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## Forever Changed

So I had Skype with Declan this Saturday.

It started off where he was sitting in his chair, as soon as he saw me he was "Dadd-da, Dadd-da, Dadd-a". It made my heart melt and made me very proud of myself in keeping up with Skype, even though it traumatised me very, very deeply in the beginning. It still does; but after this latest one I am getting much better.

It is, after all, between my son and me, his father.

I asked how he went swimming to EXW, no answer. I continued to watch Declan and then I asked again. No answer. So I continued to have a chat to him and then said goodbye and hung up. I thought if she was simply going to ignore me, whats the point. Obviously he is not yet 2 so he can't tell me what's been up.

But then she texted and said that Declan must have hung up on me, not sure what happened and did I want to Skype again. I did, and it lasted about half an hour.

She sends me basic emails every week (she stopped for a few weeks there). I actually found my balls one morning and texted that I am his father and I need to know about his development. She texted back and said that between all the moving, xmas and various visitors she had 'forgot. Now they are just headings: New Words, Daycare, New Skills. Just basic info under all these headings, a few words.

I have found that every time I ask a question about anything that Declan has been doing, she only has 2 one word answers, being 
"Good" and "Yes". Ok, I get it.

So now it has occurred to me that I have to work out some strategy so get some info out of her. She did say that they went and saw some boats and that he has to be good for Jan - his Day Carer. First time I've heard her name. Still don't know where Jan is.

So it has come to this: I am leaving this Hellish town and moving back to my home town across the country. I am hoping for June. No matter what, I have to - for my sanity. 

Little Declan says Dadd-da and grandmama a lot. Still, she never actually says Dadd-da. I think I have heard her say that twice. It doesn't hurt anymore and I can't do anything about it.

Turns out exFIL is taking my boy swimming today.

So, I really do not know when I will see him again. I don't think it will be this year, but I am out of options. Everything I have read, the advice, the courts all leads to one thing: I can't do anything.

All I CAN do is keep up with Skype, and see him whenever I can see him, all on her terms. Again, she will not go out of her way in any way, shape or form to facilitate these visits. That, and she can't seem to go anywhere or do anything without them.

So that's that.

Dan


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## Forever Changed

After nearly 2 years of pure Hell, this is how it will be.

1. Move home
2. Get a job
3. Stay with mama for a while; I'm not good with changes and I need support
4. Work in job, move to a unit
5. Heal, get my head right. Be safe and content, and eventually, hopefully 'Happy'.
6. Become who I was, before I lost myself and was torn to pieces during my terrible marriage and devasting divorce
7. In months or years to come, Daddy and Declan will be together again, somehow.


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## 2ntnuf

That was a tough decision, but I think a pretty good one for now. Some things I found. I'm not asking you to read them. I'm just putting them here. If you want to look at them, fine. If not, that's fine, too. 

Resources | Parental Alienation Help

Parental Alienation | Shrink4Men

The Impact of Parental Alienation on Parents | Psychology Today

https://www.google.com/search?q=par...j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8


In any case, whatever you are doing is working just fine right now. At some point, you may want to think about what it was you did this time and try to repeat that behavior. I'm thinking you were a little disconnected in some manner and yet, the love you feel for you son showed through. You disregarded her to some extent. You took her off that pedestal and placed your needs first. That's healthy, Dan. That's what you want to do. 

http://www.thefeelgoodlifestyle.com/make-yourself-a-priority.html

Put Yourself First | SparkPeople

How can I put myself first in my life? - selfesteem selfcare boundaries | Ask MetaFilter

Relationships: Putting Yourself First | Psychology Today

Hope those help you further, Dan. You are taking care of you right now. That's important. Keep going forward. Make the changes you need to make and keep going. Make small goals you can achieve and once you have them in hand, make new goals.


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## 2ntnuf

Double post.


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## Forever Changed

2NT,

You know what the most stupid, ridiculous and irrational part of this whole thing is?

There is a tiny, small, crushed, destroyed part of my heart that wishes she would come back. The girl I once knew, the girl I adored and loved so very, very much.

Isn't that the stupidest thing you've ever heard?

But my head says 'Why, Dan? You don't find her attractive, you don't find her interesting, you find her boring, you are scared of her, she abanonded you, stole your baby, took all of your money and furniture, not to mention your sanity, trust, love and innocence and crushed your spirit and laughed at you when you werer paralysed by grief'.

I need to stamp on that stupid last shred of my heart that has been broken. 

Even after everything, how can my heart feel that way?

It's just crazy.


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## 2ntnuf

Forever Changed said:


> 2NT,
> 
> You know what the most stupid, ridiculous and irrational part of this whole thing is?
> 
> There is a tiny, small, crushed, destroyed part of my heart that wishes she would come back. The girl I once knew, the girl I adored and loved so very, very much.
> 
> Isn't that the stupidest thing you've ever heard?


No. It's not stupid. 



Forever Changed said:


> But my head says 'Why, Dan? You don't find her attractive, you don't find her interesting, you find her boring, you are scared of her, she abanonded you, stole your baby, took all of your money and furniture, not to mention your sanity, trust, love and innocence and crushed your spirit and laughed at you when you werer paralysed by grief'.
> 
> I need to stamp on that stupid last shred of my heart that has been broken.
> 
> Even after everything, how can my heart feel that way?
> 
> It's just crazy.


You love her. You always will. We don't really stop loving someone, in my opinion. 

That can be backed with science. We create neural pathways that will always be there. There are chemicals released by our body that promote bonding. Those chemicals are still released, albeit in smaller measure, when we think of them in a nice way. You don't want to hate her, I imagine, so you will feel those feelings of love. It's pretty normal. They will fade over time as you find other things to love and other people. They won't hurt as much, once you are able to find new love. You will be able to think of that new love instead. 

I don't have the links to the science available, or I would post them. You can look them up if you'd like. We produce serotonin, ........I can't remember. There are three major ones. 

We feel those feelings, but we don't show them the love by our actions. We can't in the manner we'd like, because they don't want that any more. The tough part is getting to the point that you can show a little love, through respect of her, while not hurting so badly that you find yourself dwelling on the thoughts. That will happen, too, but you may only show very little. 

You have to make enough changes in your life that will make you happy, that you are able to let go of those strong thoughts of her. You can do that, but it's really hard. I understand that, all too well. I still love x2, no matter what she did. I even still love x1. It's much easier to deal with feelings around x1 because I decided we were really not good for each other. 

It flies in the face of some of these threads on sexual attraction being so important. There are many things which must fall into place. I was greatly attracted to x1, but we could not live together. I was less attracted to x2 and the love grew over time, through all the trials. It was stronger than I've ever felt before. It's probably what helped to break me. I guess there needs to be a balance. That balance has to put me first, even before her or anyone else. I don't mean to say we should not care about others, just make certain I take care of me first, or I will not have anything to give in loving deed.


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