# One good reply needed…thanks



## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

Can one smart person give me some insight?
I've read a lot of horror stories before posting this, so maybe mine is mild in comparison, but not to me. 
Married 18 very happy years. 2 kids. I ran a large business from home and also was the primary caregiver to our two boys. She traveled as a consultant. 
I knew something happened 14 years ago, just wasn't sure what. Asked her, denied it. Many other times over the years, asked her, denied anything happened. 
Best marriage I thought, and no way, could not happen to us.
Fast forward to last week. Asked her again, but bluffed and said I know it happened. Don't know why, but last week something triggered the memory and I just knew. For the first time, I just knew…like a woman's intuition! She confessed. But all it was consisted of a drive home from the bar outing that the work gang of hers had been on that Friday evening, and making out with "groping" in his car before coming home. Said she was too tipsy to drive, but I know from other facts that the plan was to drive home with him anyway. She had been flirting with him at her work for a while. She said she never spoke with him again outside work.
So, I read up on all of this, and the stats state that only 17% of those who strayed and didn't admit it strayed only once, most(the other 83%) strayed 3-5 times.
So…told her I know that you are in the 83%…tell me. 
She said a year or so later she kissed a guy in the hotel hallway who had been at a company function (a client) at that hotel. And that was all that happened there. Also said that she later accepted internet porn short stories from a guy she met at another annual company event and that he would send these stories and she would write back with her impressions of them…strange, I know. 
She swears that this is all that has happened.
Our marriage had never been better when she admitted these things last week and we have lots of very good bed time together currently. It just changed how I perceived myself and my life. I had no idea. I have had multiple opportunities to stray, and never have. 
She said it was just the excitement, that none meant anything to her, it was just the sexual attraction. 
Back then, we had small kids and we were an average type of couple romantically speaking. She was quite unemotional during the time she had the flings (4-6 years into the marriage, the period where partners get restless/bored with the sameness of things) in terms of not showing much affection. I always showed affection and just chalked it up to post partum depression (she had suggested this) or the rut of busy parents, or a low libido of hers. I took care of our kids and her mother in our house for 2 years (she died of breast cancer) while she did these things.
Everyone who knows us or knew us would have said we were the best couple. Always happy. We were, and she is a good person.
I wanted to die knowing that one person in this world loved only me. I know that's old fashioned and sappy, but I waited till 35 to marry, because I wanted one true love. I'm too old (53) to start over and I don't really want to..but I wish I could end my life knowing whoever I am married to was faithful to me.
As you might guess, I'm having a really hard time blocking it out. I cried to myself the other day, the first time in 10 years (since my brother was killed in an accident) that I have cried. I don't know if I have ever cried other than those two times in my life…if that you gives you any indication of what I'm going through. I forgave her, and made her feel better. I didn't want her to hurt and I was grateful she confessed to all, if that is all. Still, inside, I just don't know how to make my hurt go away. 2 weeks into this and it still rips me apart.
Can anybody help? Any good data on outcomes in one night stand flings like this? Just really hurting. 
I've put myself in dangerous, hard, tough situations, requiring huge amounts of mental and physical fortitude…but this?…this is a tough one for me.
Thanks people.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

It's not about data. It's about facts. That is something your wife isn't giving you. She has the full 5000 piece puzzle all put together and you've got maybe 5 pieces.

From experience I can tell you that the "just kissing" is not talking about on the lips. I was the wayward and those are pretty close to my admissions at first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

There is nothing mild about your story, infidelity in all of it's forms is extremely traumatic. Your wife sounds like a serial cheater, and there is no doubt that you have only got the tip of the iceberg. 

How old are your children?

Wife needs serious IC (individual counseling) and you need to understand the pain and suffering involved in reconciliation, if you decide to go that route. Most around here say it takes 3-5 years to heal from infidelity, so two weeks is NOTHING for you and your healing.

I'd start checking legal options, maybe get some IC of your own and start protecting your assets. 

This is not going to be easy, and you may not be able to actually reconcile. Many betrayed spouses have the knee jerk reaction of instant forgiveness, having no idea the emotional trauma that they have suffered. That trauma will continue to reveal itself to you in coming weeks and months. 

Eat right, exercise, make yourself and your mental/physical well being your top priority.

Good luck and sorry that you are here.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

when they say they only kissed it really means we did everything under the sun.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

There's a number of books that have been discussed in here about dealing with the aftermath of affairs. But I really doubt you've heard the whole story yet. Consider a polygraph, as I suspect most of any evidence is long gone. Until you feel comfortable you know WHAT you're forgiving, you can't really start the healing. Every new revelation will reopen the wounds. 

You could also consider counseling, both individual and marriage. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

53 is young! I will turn 50 this year and wouldn't hesitate to end things if my husband did anything again. Happily, we're over 4 years out and things are really good, but that's because HE did what he needed to do. We've both worked hard, but if he had continued to cheat and trickle truth and rugsweep, which is what your wife is doing, no way.

Please read this thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

And PLEASE read up on the 180 (it's in that thread somewhere). 

You can choose to ignore this and think things will get better, but they will not. Your wife will continue to cheat on you. My advice is to end this, now, and work on yourself, for yourself, so that you are happy with yourself, and JUST yourself. Dying knowing that someone was loyal to you isn't the be all and end all of your existence. Find another reason to live your life to the fullest, that doesn't depend on someone ELSE.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can one smart person give me some insight?
> I've read a lot of horror stories before posting this, so maybe mine is mild in comparison, but not to me.
> Married 18 very happy years. 2 kids. I ran a large business from home and also was the primary caregiver to our two boys. She traveled as a consultant.
> I knew something happened 14 years ago, just wasn't sure what. Asked her, denied it. Many other times over the years, asked her, denied anything happened.
> ...


Polygraph.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

thanks…I read both links. Somewhat helpful.
Wanting to die knowing I had a special person in my life doesn't define me. In the grand scheme of things, I've been very lucky. I've been in enough pediatric hospitals to understand this. I just put it out there to give you a sense of what the marriage meant to me.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

unfortunately your wife doesn't show the same love for your M as you do. I would polygraph and maybe DNA the kids, just based on everything you wrote, there is some probability they are not yours.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> ...I knew something happened 14 years ago, just wasn't sure what. Asked her, denied it. Many other times over the years, asked her, denied anything happened.
> 
> ...Fast forward to last week. Asked her again, but bluffed and said I know it happened....She confessed. But all it was consisted of a drive home from the bar outing that the work gang of hers had been on that Friday evening, and making out with "groping" in his car before coming home. Said she was too tipsy to drive, but I know from other facts that the plan was to drive home with him anyway. She had been flirting with him at her work for a while. She said she never spoke with him again outside work.
> 
> ...


She how you got more out of her? First it was nothing. Still nothing...nothing...finally, here's a piece, but that's it....then you pry, here's another piece, but that's all, I swear.

It's called trickle truth, and it's always the tip of the iceberg of lies.

You wife is not the person you thought she was/is. She's is a liar, and you can't trust what she says. In all likelihood, you may never have the whole truth. 

You were too eager to forgive her, and too concerned about hurting her feelings...get rid of that notion. YOU are the one hurting, and SHE is the one who has hurt you. You need to tell her that you don't believe her, you're sick of living a lie, and if she doesn't come out with full details, you're filing for divorce. Be prepared to end it if you really want to save it.

Once you get more info, tell her you want her to write out a timeline of when it all happened. Then, once you have the timeline, tell her to get in the car because you're going somewhere, but don't tell her where. Pull into the parking lot of a lawyers firm and park the car..., then look her in the eye and tell her that you have booked a polygraph (even if you haven't) and that you are going inside with her to see if she passes, and if she fails it's over. Ask her one more time, if there's anything she wants to tell you before you proceed.

Be prepared for the waterworks and more of a confession.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me. 
Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> unfortunately your wife doesn't show the same love for your M as you do. I would polygraph and maybe DNA the kids, just based on everything you wrote, there is some probability they are not yours.


This^^^
If you want to get to the truth.
Sorry you are here.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


You may get the "parking lot confession"


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You're in for a long and painful recovery, I think. She cheats on you, and you're worried about hurting and humiliating her?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


It's not about her anymore, this is about you. Without being sure you have all of the facts that you need to make the decision on how you direct the rest of your life you will be in limbo which will slowly kill you from the inside out.

Some folks here have gone all the way with the poly, but the majority of folks learn what they need to know with just the threat. But I would not make any empty threats if I were you. 

After being through infidelity myself, the first thing I would do if I were you would be to protect myself, get legal advice, file for divorce, have her served and then maybe she can come to you with ideas on how to make this right with you.

She is the one who should be putting in the effort to reconcile, not you. Until she does that you have no marriage, no nothing. How old are your children? I ask this for legal reasons. 

You need to change your midset about upsetting your wife immediately. It is now her job to repair the damage she has done and if she doesn't do that, and isn't willing to try, then you my friend are fighting a losing battle.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


No way dude! Sh's the one with the track record of lying, not you. It's not your fault you doubt her...she has changed her story multiple times, hid things, been inappropriate, trickled, lied by omission, etc. 

You are looking at this all wrong.

What about your hurt and humiliation?


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

Kids are 15 and almost 11. Again, I am still the primary caregiver. I have home-schooled-tutored them, and ran my business from home, which is now quite a large operation, so our contributions to our income have been similar. WS works just 50%, and when she works, travel is 100% of the time, so she is always gone when she works.


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## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

And now that you have confronted her, and that she has done some trickle truth... she is probably furiously covering her tracks, contacting others men to stop contact or go underground more. You should have been monitoring her phone/computer usage as she reacted to this. And it's not too late to start doing that.

You've been hurt, and will probably have issues with having an honest relationship with her. Because you'll always be wondering. You'll worry about the "whole" truth from the past (which she hasn't shared with you) and you'll be worried about the future & if she'll do it again.

If she hasn't done a good job explaining the WHY of the past mistakes she's made--something you can really understand & work with--then she hasn't told you enough. And probably hasn't told the whole truth.

By the way: Rereading your first post... did you say you were taking care of her dying MOM while this was going on?!?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


There is only one use for a polygraph.... parking lot confessions.. this mean that sometimes subject person freaks out right before the polygraph and starts vocalizing a stream of truth.

Polygraphs are wrong 25% of the time. So even if she took a polygraph you have no way of knowing if the results are accurate. It will cause more confusion then clear up anything.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> It's not about data. It's about facts. That is something your wife isn't giving you. She has the full 5000 piece puzzle all put together and you've got maybe 5 pieces.
> 
> From experience I can tell you that the "just kissing" is not talking about on the lips. I was the wayward and those are pretty close to my admissions at first.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Listen to Regret. When I first came here trying to make sense of things I PMed another wayward (our situations had some similarities, though we were oppositely situated) to ask her thoughts on whether she believed what I was being told. She replied "With respect, it is a small chance that she's been 100 percent forthcoming on what actually happened." She knew. Regret knows.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

53 is NOT too old to start over.

If you are in a modicum of good shape, have a steady career and financially grounded, you will be shocked at the number of women who would be very interested in you. 

I would rather give my retirement, my home and my security away than spend one more hour under the same roof with an unrepentant serial cheater.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

davidsmith003 said:


> Kids are 15 and almost 11. Again, I am still the primary caregiver. I have home-schooled-tutored them, and ran my business from home, which is now quite a large operation, so our contributions to our income have been similar. WS works just 50%, and when she works, travel is 100% of the time, so she is always gone when she works.


There are some books that I think will help you and your wife. They are all by Dr. Harley. Read them in the order below.

Surviving an Affair
His Needs, Her Needs (affair proofing your marriage)
Love Busters

Infidelity occurs in something like 60% of marriage. There is a way to recover from the infidelity and to protect your marriage. It will take both of you working on this to recover and restructure your marriage.

Your wife has a weakness in that she cannot handle the traveling required by her job. In order to fix this, she has to stop traveling. This means finding a different way to earn income that does not require travel.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

thanks


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Poly - I would not recommend it. At best you might get a parking lot confession but even those are rare.

Forgiveness - you forgave her too soon. I doubt you got the truth.

She cheated, she lied, and you seem to be giving her a pass. 

Let's say down the road some woman contacts you and tells you a different version of what happened between her husband and your wife. Then what? It will open up a new can of worms.

A cheater can say we groped and kissed and that may be the truth. But rarely is it the whole truth. Cheaters use code words and phrases. Normally "A kiss" is code for "We had sex".

Just saying.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

listen david.... YOU are the one suffering badly in this moment, so honestly i dont see the problem asking her a poly. You may not go trough it in the end, but it gives her a clear message of what your dealing with and how you feel to her.
The answer she will give will be inlighting for you also


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


IMO she's spent enough time NOT telling the truth that any "indignation" on her part wouldn't be at all justified.

Dude, you had to LIE to her in order to get even the smallest sliver of truth out of her, and what you were able to get out of her is likely just the tip of the iceberg. And you know the old saying...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> when they say they only kissed it really means we did everything under the sun.


*Agreed! A spousal confession of "cranial kissing" with their AP largely means that it didn't exactly take a very long period of time to get down to the "pelvic" variety!*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The polygraph has worked great for the folks here that have used it. It isn't perfect but it is as close as it gets.

Not one time in the last three years can I remember a cheater admitting everything when they start confessing.

Your case sounds like it is going to be much worse than average. She always works away from home. She goes out drinking with other men.....

Your wife has two separate lives. She's a party girl on the road. Check out shamwow's threads. Same issues but yours is worse because of kids.


How far back can you check her phone/text records.

Do you have access to her computer?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Like others have already told you


She has been lying to you for a large part of your married life and NOT really feeling guilty about it - what does that tell you about her?
This is not about her feelings - that boat has sailed a long time ago - this is now about you and closure for you
You have got nowhere near the whole truth - far from it! She has trickle truthed you so far and with no real consequences - what do you think she really (deep down) thinks of you?
You are more likely to find that she has been constantly cheating on you and getting her rocks off (sounds like that kind of person to me) mainly because she knew that she could get away with it and if you did find out, there would be no repercussions

So where is your real line in the sand before you kick her out? What would she have had to do to get your attention? Let's say, for example, and as a result of a polygraph test threat, she (tearfully, of course) tells you that for 15 years of your 18 year marriage, she has been having trysts varying in what was done from one night stands through to a full threesome on to a a very deep intense EA coupled with PA that ended when OM dumped her. And that one of your kids is actually his! But ... she is now very sorry that she did this to you, and that you are the love of her life etc etc. Would you still forgive her and take her back or would that cause you to kick her to the curb?

I hope it's not as bad as that, but as the poster who said you have very few pieces of this 5000 piece puzzle, it could be. You need to know! So please don't even think about hurting her feelings over a poly. She should be bending over backwards to make amends to you!


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Kids are 15 and almost 11. Again, I am still the primary caregiver. I have home-schooled-tutored them, and ran my business from home, which is now quite a large operation, so our contributions to our income have been similar. WS works just 50%, and when she works, travel is 100% of the time, so she is always gone when she works.


This is great news for you legally, many fathers are not in a favorable position because they almost always lose primary custody of their children, sounds like you may not.

My wife cheated, then moved out with my children, I had no choice in the matter, legally. She was a stay at home mom.

You will save yourself many days/weeks/months/years of heartache if you just file for divorce and go from there. I speak from experience on this. You need to know whether she is invested in the marriage or not, and unfortunately I do not think she is.

Filing for divorce is easily reversible, but you need to show your cheating spouse that there are repercussions for her indiscretions or you will spend the rest of your days with a lying cheater and hating your life.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


Absolutely the wrong way of thinking. You asked for the truth and got lied to for years so any rights or moral high grounds have long gone.

This is a truth mission. Plain and simple. Feelings be damned.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I agree with the polygraph... if for no other reason that to indicate to her that you know that there is more to the story than she is letting on. 

I would ask her to write everything out, give it to you, ask her if she is sure that is all... and then tell her when her appt is. 

I think you can save things with the right steps... but IC / MC should be a must.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

It sounds like you were happier before your wife confessed. 

It seems as if you have no intention divorcing your wife no matter what she has done or will do. You’re even afraid of offending her. You took care of her terminal mother for two years while she was making out and you’re afraid of this:



davidsmith003 said:


> I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth.


You have every right to resent her for the rest of the marriage even if she is telling the truth now. Remember she lied to you for years. If she is fooling around give me one reason why she should give up her single life while she travels. If you caught her by accident you would still do nothing. I would give my left nut to have a wife like you. I would have treated a wife that acted like you better and not have had a low libido years ago.

Given that, you might be better off not knowing any more than you already do. 

Please see this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/179898-will-i-forever-think-her-my-wife-cheated.html

Time will help but it will always be there. Men tend to put their wives and mothers in a pedestal. It sometimes helps to realize that they are human.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


SHE CHEATED ON YOU. YOU DID NOT CHEAT ON HER !

This is not the time to worry about HER possible hurt feelings. You need to get the truth.

Right now you are getting TT'd big time.

We Just Kissed = They had sex.

She has no boundaries while traveling without you, so if you want R, she needs to have a NON traveling job.

53 IS NOT too old to begin again with someone else.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I was told in March 2 years ago by my then wife that she had "been in love with another man for 2 years". She insisted nothing physical had happened. Swore on our children's lives. There were all sorts of reasons why I believed her, but it just didn't sit right.

She insisted that it had not been the man that I thought it was but would not name whoever it really was.

A few weeks later, I looked at her search history and noticed she had been Googling the name of the guy I suspected (I didn't suspect anything physical had gone on.).

That morning, within 15 minutes of me finding that name I looked his address up using the electoral roll and drove around to his house. It turns out he hid from me so I didn't get to speak to him.

Over the next few weeks I kept digging away and about 6 weeks later, late one night, she admitted that they had "just kissed". Everything unraveled from there as I knew at that point that adults don't "just kiss". They have sex. Why on Earth wouldn't they?

From that moment on, it took me months and months of working through her trickle truth. In many ways I hate her for it to this day, but I do also love her somehow.

Either way, even given a head start, what was oodles of evidence in hindsight and a suspicion of who it was, it took me maybe 3 months to begin getting anything like the truth.

Ironically, at the very same time, my boss (who was a nasty, horrible POS himself but that's another story) was going through a similar thing - but he wouldn't challenge his then wife and didn't ever attempt to get the truth.

He left home 12 months later and doesn't see his kids that often and hasn't found anyone else since, but saved himself the pain of finding the truth. I got the pain, but still live with my kids and now ex wife.

edit: I don't mean to be harsh, but your wife has had sex with several men over the years. Maybe she still is now. Your choice, but what you know won't change the truth. Only when you know the truth can you make an informed decision on your own life.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


Seriously? 

You are worried about her hurt and humiliation. So, did you enjoy being cuckolded? Why are you so scared from your wife? Man up.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?
Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?…I know you all are saying I'm in denial and I know the characteristic of that is to not know you are in it! Catch 22. It would be nice if there was someone on here who had that experience.
But... I hear you.
And "manning up" is turning down the women who have come on to me over the years (used to be a tennis pro…comes with the job).
Right now, I'm just looking for good advice, and I take your point regarding the polygraph.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I feel for you, but I have to be a bit heavy with this: SO WHAT? You think that she will be humiliated by being hooked up to a polygraph machine to test whether she was being honest about lying and deceiving you? That makes absolutely no....please reconsider.

Let's be honest. You are afraid that it will show that she was not being honest and you don't want that pain. No one wants that pain for you. You have told yourself that you are too old at age 53. That is young, unless you only plan on living another 5-10 years. The 50's are the new 40's. Seriously. I hope she was honest with you, but how would you feel at 60 if you found out she was not? Perhaps a lot more pissed than you do at 53 because those last 7 years would have real value to you.

Not doing it is fine and it is your choice whether to ask, but be honest about your reasons. if she is humiliated for taking it, well, that is the cost of doing business in the new economy since you learned the "truth".


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?
> *Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?…*I know you all are saying I'm in denial and I know the characteristic of that is to not know you are in it! Catch 22. It would be nice if there was someone on here who had that experience.
> But... I hear you.
> And "manning up" is turning down the women who have come on to me over the years (used to be a tennis pro…comes with the job).
> Right now, I'm just looking for good advice, and I take your point regarding the polygraph.


Have you asked her why? Kissing/Groping 2 or 3 times? Why? Did she not know it was wrong after the first time? Why then do it again? This is assuming her story is true.

If you read what I just wrote, then consider this. Does it make any logical sense that what she said is all that happened? How is it possible that she did not grow a conscious after the first time? In the alternate, it's quite possible that, after the first time, it became easier to cheat on you, and, if that were the case, does it not stand to reason that she may have gone further/done more than she admitted to?

And therein lies the power of "trickle-truth" because, although it may sound plausible and although you might want to believe, it simply doesn't stand up to logic.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

Good point regarding the time. If I had know 14 years ago, I might not be on this forum.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?
> Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?…I know you all are saying I'm in denial and I know the characteristic of that is to not know you are in it! Catch 22. It would be nice if there was someone on here who had that experience.
> But... I hear you.
> And "manning up" is turning down the women who have come on to me over the years (used to be a tennis pro…comes with the job).
> Right now, I'm just looking for good advice, and I take your point regarding the polygraph.


You have had lots of "good advice". Just look back through every single other thread from men and women in your position. It is the same _every time._

If your version of "good advice" is for others to say your wife is obviously telling the truth - then look elsewhere. Because she isn't.

We know it. She knows it and I think you know it, but just don't want to admit it.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?


Yes there is a chance, it's 1/100000000000000000000%.




davidsmith003 said:


> Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?


Nope, don't think so.

Hang out around here long enough and the similarities between stories become really eerie.

First similarity in almost all of them = minimizing what happened (trickle truthing).

She'll say she didn't want to hurt you further etc etc.

They all do this.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

ok…thanks everyone. 
Eye opening. 
Yes, I am naive when it comes to this sort of thing. Not where I ever trained myself to be, so unprepared to deal with it.
Anyway…thanks everyone for taking the time to help. 
Your time is greatly appreciated.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry you are here.

It doesn't matter if it was 14 years ago or 14 days ago....you were wronged. It is 'fresh' for you since you finally have confirmation with somewhat of a confession.

Do not think you are able to 'nice guy' your wife about this. Like others have said you forgave to early/easy.

Your wife has strung you along for 14 years with lies and is only giving you the bare minimum.

Stay strong for yourself and let your wife do the hard work of earning back your trust.

Good luck.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?
> Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?…I know you all are saying I'm in denial and I know the characteristic of that is to not know you are in it! Catch 22. It would be nice if there was someone on here who had that experience.
> But... I hear you.
> And "manning up" is turning down the women who have come on to me over the years (used to be a tennis pro…comes with the job).
> Right now, I'm just looking for good advice, and I take your point regarding the polygraph.


Someone posted here about 2 years ago about his wife who taught high school or something and was caught at school making out with a colleague. As I recall her job might have been at stake which could have led to a lot of embarrassment and she came home to confess and cry, get ahead of the narrative, and say it was the first and only time, she didn't understand it herself, and it would never happen again. Could have been the truth. As I recall, OP left after a day or two satisfied that she was truthful or that he did not want to know more and there was no need for further inquiry. At the time I wondered if he would be back. I haven't kept up regularly here in the past year or two and maybe he did come back. My thought at the time anyway was that even if she was telling the truth and she was just making out with this guy, that alone is a big problem and not one I could put to rest on the simple say so that I was confused and it won't happen again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?
> Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?…I know you all are saying I'm in denial and I know the characteristic of that is to not know you are in it! Catch 22. It would be nice if there was someone on here who had that experience.
> But... I hear you.
> And "manning up" is turning down the women who have come on to me over the years (used to be a tennis pro…comes with the job).
> Right now, I'm just looking for good advice, and I take your point regarding the polygraph.


Yes there is a chance that she is telling the truth. It's not a big chance, but there is a chance.

There is a tendency on TAM for posters to make absolute statements about things that they imagine that your wife has done. Be careful as these imaginative things can get very wild.

There will also be a loud choir of mostly men saying that you have to punish her, humiliate her, etc and then dump her. They will tell you that no man with self respect will stay with a woman who has done what your wife has done. 

Be careful at listening to the extremes. You need to make up your own mind on whether or not you can recover your marriage. This will be a very trying and painful time for you.

Sadly, most people cheat try very hard to not tell their spouse the truth. A fairly large percentage of marriage counselors will tell their clients to not tell their spouse of infidelities but to instead stop cheating and spend the rest of their life making it up to their spouse by being a very good spouse. This is probably the kind of advice that your wife has received.

But you know now. 

When I caught my husband cheating he never admitted anything until I found out the truth from some other source. When I had irrefutable facts, he'd admit. It got exhausting. What I finally told him is that my imagination is probably worse then reality, but the facts I already know and my imagination are all that I have since he keeps trying to hide things. So I will assume the worst of the worst. Thus I went into recovery with the assumption of the worst and demanded that he follow a recovery path based on the worst. He went along with that.

The thing is that there are some who will tell you that you have to get every single bit of information down to the exact measurement of his body parts, the number of times they did this or that, and on and on. Well after a while it gets exhausting. You will never know 100%. 

It takes 2-5 years for a marriage to recover from infidelity. The books I suggested are the best route I have found to do that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pepper123 said:


> I agree with the polygraph... if for no other reason that to indicate to her that you know that there is more to the story than she is letting on.
> 
> I would ask her to write everything out, give it to you, ask her if she is sure that is all... and then tell her when her appt is.
> 
> I think you can save things with the right steps... but IC / MC should be a must.


He does not have to pay hundreds/thousands of dollars for a polygraph to let her know that he does not believe her. All he as to do is to look her in the eyes and tell her that he does not believe her. She is obviously not telling him the truth. Since she is not willing to tell the whole of it he will go forward with the belief that she had sexual affairs with every guy she's admitted to be with.

If this is not true, she will go nuts trying to prove he's wrong. It it's true, she will most likely just let it stand.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?....


NO. Not at all...it's not the whole truth. No chance.

If it was the truth...the fact that she denied it for years before admitting to one slip, then you find out later there was another slip...imagine what she HASN'T admitted yet. At what point did it become true, only at the last admission? If I were a betting man, I'd let it ride...

BTW, I only mentioned the polygraph so you could obtain a parking lot confession. If you choose to actually book a real test, so be it...I don't think it's necessary...I think more truth and tears will trickle out while you are staring at her in the parking lot. I would mention that you already know something she hasn't admitted to, but you want to hear it from her...be tactful and plan how you are going to get the truth out of her. 

...and once you get the next piece of the puzzle, don't assume "that's all". Don't be so eager to forgive her...heck, you don't even have enough information to make an informed decision, let alone forgive her.

You're just scratching the surface.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Yes there is a chance that she is telling the truth. It's not a big chance, but there is a chance.
> 
> There is a tendency on TAM for posters to make absolute statements about things that they imagine that your wife has done. Be careful as these imaginative things can get very wild.


They are also, I am afraid, usually correct.



EleGirl said:


> There will also be a loud choir of mostly men saying that you have to punish her, humiliate her, etc and then dump her. They will tell you that no man with self respect will stay with a woman who has done what your wife has done.


True and I always found this puzzling on a pro marriage forum. He does need to know what he can forgive.



EleGirl said:


> Be careful at listening to the extremes. You need to make up your own mind on whether or not you can recover your marriage. This will be a very trying and painful time for you.
> 
> Sadly, most people cheat try very hard to not tell their spouse the truth. A fairly large percentage of marriage counselors will tell their clients to not tell their spouse of infidelities but to instead stop cheating and spend the rest of their life making it up to their spouse by being a very good spouse. This is probably the kind of advice that your wife has received.


This would be awful advice. Terribly bad advice. It would be immoral. It would be wrong. It enable her behaviour.



EleGirl said:


> But you know now.
> 
> When I caught my husband cheating he never admitted anything until I found out the truth from some other source. When I had irrefutable facts, he'd admit. It got exhausting. What I finally told him is that my imagination is probably worse then reality, but the facts I already know and my imagination are all that I have since he keeps trying to hide things. So I will assume the worst of the worst. Thus I went into recovery with the assumption of the worst and demanded that he follow a recovery path based on the worst. He went along with that.
> 
> The thing is that there are some who will tell you that you have to get every single bit of information down to the exact measurement of his body parts, the number of times they did this or that, and on and on. Well after a while it gets exhausting. You will never know 100%.


In my experience, this questioning seems to be a male thing. I don't ever recall seeing anyone advised to ask these type of details. I see a lot of hurt people asking why they want to know and why their cheating spouse will not tell them.

It is part of the healing process for some people and, if the answers are desired then they should be given. 



EleGirl said:


> It takes 2-5 years for a marriage to recover from infidelity. The books I suggested are the best route I have found to do that.


OP: Time is your best friend and worst enemy. This stuff takes a lot of it, but as time will go by, so will the pain.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Crap David, I feel sorry for you, because I've been there recently, too. I found out a whopping 20 years later. Much similar, too. It just hit me, over a couple of weeks it grew stronger until I confronted her. 

She's told me anything I wanted to know, however, and (I believe) has never held back. Still, what you said about wanting to die knowing you had that one true and loyal person is an emotion I felt too.

I've never had a ton of awards, accolades, achievements to hang my hat on, but always believed I was an honorable man and devoted father, with a faithful wife. I could reflect on that in old age, and be proud. What am I supposed to do now? Say, "Well, two out of three ain't bad." ?? Heck's Bells, that pisses me off.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Forest said:


> what you said about wanting to die knowing you had that one true and loyal person is an emotion I felt too.


Hence my moniker. It's a gut punch like no other. As my psychologist friend says, I will forever look back at it as the greatest kick to my balls of my life. 

So much for the fairy tale.

Good news is, there are still plenty of women out there who know how to treat a good man properly. Apparently our wives don't fit that description.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.


I've got news for you Dave. If she was, even as a minimum, doing what she admitted do with these guys, she doesn't think you're the cat's pajamas anyway. If you don't do the poly thing, you may as well shut up about it, accept the way things are, and go about your business.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Also, as has been mentioned, time is a funny thing. The mind even worse.
When I uncovered this, I remember thinking there was only a 1% chance I'd feel like divorcing her. Now, 5 months later my mind has put me thru such torment that I'd probably say its a 20% chance. If it were not for the financial blow, 50%. You get the picture. This is despite the fact that she has been totally remorseful, and has been faithful the last 20 years.

If you value you marriage, try to control you mind, and not obsess constantly, as I have. My pride will not allow me to let it go. Not saying that is the right thing, just how its played out for me.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?
> Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?…I know you all are saying I'm in denial and I know the characteristic of that is to not know you are in it! Catch 22. It would be nice if there was someone on here who had that experience.
> But... I hear you.
> And "manning up" is turning down the women who have come on to me over the years (used to be a tennis pro…comes with the job).
> Right now, I'm just looking for good advice, and I take your point regarding the polygraph.


There is a general rule here, which to be honest I think I have only seen to be wrong once and even that I doubt as I think the guys wife found his TAM account.

That is;

"We only talked." = "We kissed and fondled each other."
"We only kissed." = "We had sex."
"We only did it once and he couldn't finish" = "We were at it like bunnies."
"We used condoms." = "We went bareback."
"We never did BJ's or anal" = You guessed it.

As mentioned you might be one of the lucky ones but the odds are firmly stacked against you.

There are two resources that might be of use to you, one is the wayward spouse instructions, Chapparal has that somewhere I think and Josephs letter. If your wife is genuinely remorseful they will make sobering reading for her.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Josephs letter.

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. 

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes. 

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. 

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have. 

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. 

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. 

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important. 

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. 

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it. 

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. 

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier. 

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. 

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

thanks…good advice.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

I found out a while ago (from a friend who had witnessed it) about my (now ex-wifes) boss caressing her leg at a party. When confronting her with it she went from just brushing it off as a drunk boss being an idiot, to (much later and only after I had actually scheduled a poly) admitting to actually having sex with him. This was minutes before she was to take the test. There were many more lies along the way, and to be honest, I doubt I will ever know the full truth, but it really doesn't matter anyway now. I would tell her that to set your mind at ease so there would be no doubt in your mind, that she take a poly. Then actually set one up. Tell her if she passes it, you will not question her about it again. I agree with everyone else on here, I think there was much more than she is admitting to.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

russ101 said:


> I found out a while ago (from a friend who had witnessed it) about my (now ex-wifes) boss caressing her leg at a party. When confronting her with it she went from just brushing it off as a drunk boss being an idiot, to (much later and only after I had actually scheduled a poly) admitting to actually having sex with him. This was minutes before she was to take the test. There were many more lies along the way, and to be honest, I doubt I will ever know the full truth, but it really doesn't matter anyway now. I would tell her that to set your mind at ease so there would be no doubt in your mind, that she take a poly. Then actually set one up. Tell her if she passes it, you will not question her about it again. I agree with everyone else on here, I think there was much more than she is admitting to.


Russ! Good to hear from you. Did anything come of the money your legal advisor informed you that you were due as hush money?

Sorry for threadjack OP.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

except that, she still could have lied again 2 weeks ago and said nothing happened, like she did before. She didn't have to say anything. Our marriage was doing great (please no chuckling on that point…I do get the irony!) and she admitted it with nothing to gain from it. Now, she didn't admit the other two instances, but a couple days later, when I showed her the stats, she gave up that info. She didn't have to do that. She could have just said that she was one of the 17% that only cheated once. I would have NEVER found out…so that makes me believe her. Doesn't that follow at all?
Doesn't that at least make some sense people? …preparing for the avalanche of comments as to my naivety…which maybe I am.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

I'm more and more leaning towards the polygraph. Just not all the way there. I'll post back after a while if something has changed, and thanks again to so many of you…all of you…because no matter your take on this, harsh or not, your comments come from experience, and from just trying to help. For that, I am grateful to all.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> Kids are 15 and almost 11. Again, I am still the primary caregiver. I have home-schooled-tutored them, and ran my business from home, which is now quite a large operation, so our contributions to our income have been similar. WS works just 50%, and *when she works, travel is 100% of the time,* so *she is always gone when she works*.


Based on what you wrote in your original post, her infidelities all happened while she was traveling for her job. With that in mind, her traveling now would always prey on my thoughts. I'd *always *wonder what was happening. Is she flirting with some other guy? Is she driving with another man in his car? Doing what? Kissing another guy in the hallway of a hotel (And are you absolutely SURE it never went further than just kissing, I mean, this WAS a hotel?! :scratchhead Sending and receiving more questionable texts? Sounds like she's crossed the line quite a few times. *Has she confessed to everything*? Trust is soooo easy to lose, and sooooo difficult to get back.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Check phone, texts, facebook etc. records. Depending on the phone you can chase down deleted texts.

You can look up phone numbers on spokeo.com.

How long is she gone when she is working?

Does she meet any of the same people while she is working on the different jobs?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

You said that you had bluffed and said that you knew 'it' happened. 

She was probably unaware of what you knew so tried to cover her bases.

Take some time to read some other threads, almost exclusively you will find that you will get trickle, trickle, trickle.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

davidsmith003 said:


> except that, she still could have lied again 2 weeks ago and said nothing happened, like she did before. She didn't have to say anything. Our marriage was doing great (please no chuckling on that point…I do get the irony!) and she admitted it with nothing to gain from it. Now, she didn't admit the other two instances, but a couple days later, when I showed her the stats, she gave up that info. She didn't have to do that. She could have just said that she was one of the 17% that only cheated once. I would have NEVER found out…so that makes me believe her. Doesn't that follow at all?
> Doesn't that at least make some sense people? …preparing for the avalanche of comments as to my naivety…which maybe I am.


She admitted a little so that you don't dig around and find out the actual mess she made. There is a lot more than what you know. She broke your trust. It's her responsibility to show you she can be trusted. Polygraph is a good way to start rebuilding that trust. Are you willing to give her the chance to prove herself?

Go through Russ101's thread. I'd help you out.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Doesn't that at least make some sense people?


If it makes sense to you then you have your answer.

But then, that's not what your gut is telling you and also not why you are here.

Trust your gut.

Everyone has differing abilities to "let go" of things. Maybe she's willing to talk about these things now because she feels they're so far in the past that it's no big deal and isn't happening now so there are no consequences or something. Maybe not, maybe she's diverting you from what is currently going on.

I couldn't deal with that niggling in the back of my mind, but maybe you can. We all have different pain thresholds.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Re, the poly test, though you might get a parking lot confession, many waywards even lie then hopeing to avoid the test by admiiting a little more. Go through with the test. If she says she won't take the test for any reason, you have your answer about still lying.

Find out who the police in your area use and give the examiner a call. He will instruct you how to formulate your questions.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can one smart person give me some insight?
> I've read a lot of horror stories before posting this, so maybe mine is mild in comparison, but not to me.
> Married 18 very happy years. 2 kids. I ran a large business from home and also was the primary caregiver to our two boys. She traveled as a consultant.
> I knew something happened 14 years ago, just wasn't sure what. Asked her, denied it. Many other times over the years, asked her, denied anything happened.
> ...


Ah a fellow analytic, turn that part off right now. Stats mean nothing. Right now, you are in turmoil and part of believes she could possibly be in the 17%. It is one giant rabbit hole. Your wife lied for 14 years and now she is minimizing. All you will do is over analyze the situation and freeze when you need to make a decision.


davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


See, it already started. She told you the truth knowing it would hurt and humiliate you. She can be angry, but she told lies for 14 years, logically speaking, why would she feel humiliated to prove her assertions true? She breached your trust, so she can't honestly say "why don't you believe me."
"Gee, I don't know, Uhm I thought it was one and it is possibly 6.....".


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Another point to consider. How is her demeanor? When you question her does she look like the cat that ate the canary?

If all she did was talk/kiss/grope, she might feel so relieved that it only went that far that she acts more natural and honest. If she has that "Holy cow, I'm caught" look, all the more likely it went further. 

Also, remember, we are all adults now. Kissing and holding hands is for kids. When adults get motivated....


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.
> Has anyone on this thread actually ever done one on a spouse? I suppose just asking if she would agree to one would probably tell me what I need to know.


Dave

Why would you ask her? She has been lying to you for years.

Take her on a date. Drive to the lie detector appt. Walk her in and sit her down.

The shock alone might get you the truth.

And when she asks why you are doing this just tell her she has been lying to you for a long time.

The truth starts today!

HM


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

yes…it's the last point you made. Kissing is for kids really. 
But, her demeanor is good, natural. But then again, it was when she lied before, so I follow everybody. I'm getting it.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

go with the poly. No harm. To address your points, it was easier to admit something to keep you from digging for more. The phrase Trickle Truth exists for a reason. Read all of the posts about that. It will shock you. It may be truth, but its trickling and there is a whole lot more where that came from. As they say in court, (1) the truth, (2) the WHOLE truth and (3) nothing but the truth. Any other way allows for lies and omissions. She will not be bothered by the poly, if she gave you the truth, whole truth and nothing but. Otherwise, prepare yourself for some major push back and manipulation.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> yes…it's the last point you made. Kissing is for kids really.
> But, her demeanor is good, natural. But then again, it was when she lied before, so I follow everybody. I'm getting it.


She told this lie for 14 years, I don't buy the "looks tell all" when it is a well practiced lie.



davidsmith003 said:


> Doesn't that at least make some sense people? …preparing for the avalanche of comments as to my naivety…which maybe I am.


Also, no, because you are minimizing and rewriting your own words:


> Asked her again, but bluffed and said I know it happened.


No, this is not a free and loose confession. Sorry to be blunt, but she told someone you both know, has mementos she thinks you stumbled on or has been in contact with other men or one of these men.

If she came to you on her own, we have a few threads like this, by herself and confessed I could see your strong doubt. She was in hotel corridors playing grab a$$ and kissing. We have one thread where I actually almost believe the wife's version of nothing happening at a hotel, but she doesn't have a history with other guys over 14 years..


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

thanks


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

By your own admission, you bluffed her before Dave. Tell her you "knew what happened" because of a call you received saying that some guy confessed during MC to an affair with her several years ago and his wife called you. She can prove her love and ease any doubt by taking a poly.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

about the polygraph, if she is indeed telling the truth she should be more than willing to take advantage of the chance to prove she's being honest. 

have a consequence ready if she resists,


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Ive read your story David. Im kind of head of intel here tho its not official, its a role I ended up with over the past year.

Given what I have read I will give you odds. Not as grim as some but very very grim. Im a logistics guy by nature, having been behind the scenes getting logistical type stuff of known and even OPs who never had a thread.

Probability of no nudity involved contact. IE stopped at kissing and over the clothes groping. 15%. Ive seen it several times and verified thru my VAR work here.
Accurate count of three inappropriate encounters 2%. Im very grim here.
At least a BJ. 75%
Full sex fest. 60%
Anal or fisting or other fetish type stuff. 20%
She sent nude pics. 65%
She received peen pics. 85%
she is still actively cheating. 40%
oh and NEVER say because she wont do it with you means she will never do a certain sexual activity. DOZENS of cheating wives here took it in the azz and never even considered it for the hubby.


RTBP was the master of the use of the poly threat. His thread has been taken down but it worked roughly thus:
Wife, one week from today you are having a polygraph. Pass it and I will do my damndest to get through this and live to my dying days with you. Fail and it is divorce and exposure to EVERYONE you hold dear.
You may change your answer at any point up to the point we walk through the door. Once inside, your answers are locked forever.

BTW his wife PASSED and AFIK they are still in R nearly a year later.

MULTIPLE times here the wife confessed at the last second in the parking lot thusly known as a parking lot confession.

WL


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

what was the source of your percentage data conclusions or was this satirical? Sorry, couldn't tell.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Dis. You may have had a SAHM wife but I have never to this day seen ANYONE roast a SAHM and win like you did.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> what was the source of your percentage data conclusions or was this satirical? Sorry, couldn't tell.


VERY VERY real. Ive done VAR work for like a dozen people now. PMed timeline questions to dozens of betrayed and received them back. Taken two calls from betrayed husbands on the verge of mental breakdowns and talked them back. Verified about five people with very strange stories that they are indeed real people. Posted my standard evidence gathering post... ?100? times.

I look at patterns. I see patterns where others dont. 

FWIW this is my standard evidence gathering post. Responsible for now taking down 30 cheating wives and 2 cheating husbands:

paste
_Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history! 

Credit tacoma 03072014

This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history

Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything she has said into the phone is right here.
I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to.

Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS.

Edit: It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved. 
_
jeez this thing is long. Really gotta get back and crunch this thing down a bit.

Men are largely math and statistically based thusly I provide data in estimated percentage/ odds.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

My Fww took a poly. Eight years after dday. On the way to the exam she did drop a mini-bomb. Turns out her EA was 1 year long, not the 6 months she had originally claimed. Anyway she passed the poly.....there was no PA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Tobyboy said:


> My Fww took a poly. Eight years after dday. On the way to the exam she did drop a mini-bomb. Turns out her EA was 1 year long, not the 6 months she had originally claimed. Anyway she passed the poly.....there was no PA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BAM. Parking lot confession.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> Our marriage had never been better when she admitted these things last week and we have lots of very good bed time together currently.


Hysterical Bonding. This is when sex is often and amazing after D-day. Sort of a “reclaiming” of what's yours.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Tobyboy said:


> My Fww took a poly. Eight years after dday. On the way to the exam she did drop a mini-bomb. Turns out her EA was 1 year long, not the 6 months she had originally claimed. Anyway she passed the poly.....there was no PA.





weightlifter said:


> BAM. Parking lot confession.



Still have her take the poly no matter was she confesses in the parking lot. Don't listen to her when she says: "I've told you everything. Now can we please go home?"


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> my fear of the polygraph is this…if she is telling the truth, I will have then hurt and humiliated her. Hooking her up to a machine? I know it's practical, but that would make her resent me for the rest of the marriage, if she is telling the truth. I know she is the one who started the ball rolling down that hill, so you could argue she deserves it, but it just seems like such a move that would alienate her from me.


 She had no problem humiliating you by messing around with a couple other guys did she? 

By doing that she let you know that she comes first and your feelings do count and why not. She's the one on the giving end so all in all please stop feeling sorry for her because she sure as hell doesn't feel sorry for you.

All your doing is giving her the passing lane to continue and until you decide to reclaim your pride and dignity that she used to wipe her ass with, then your in for more that you bargained for. Wake up friend and reclaim what was once yours. Time for playing games is over. It's hardball time.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

davidsmith, i would ask your W why there was only kissing each time. why didn't it progress to PinV sex? the "i felt guilty" excuse doesn't fly here because she's done this more than once. 


you see, after we've been with a partner a while, heavy petting usually leads to sex. we get used to satisfying our urges. so the kissing only, coupled with the thrill of someone new, just doesn't make sense. 

of course your W may be an exception. i can truly only speak for myself but when it's getting hot, it's hard to stop. luckily i only kiss my H


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Given her history of indiscretions, I agree with an earlier poster who suggested paternity tests of your 2 kids. The tests are cheap. The results, if good, would ease your mind tremendously.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Graywolf2 said:


> Hysterical Bonding. This is when sex is often and amazing after D-day. Sort of a “reclaiming” of what's yours.


It's also relief and, sadly, pathetic gratitude. "Oh, my God! They chose to come back to me! They must really love me and want me, after all! I was so afraid they were going to tell me they didn't love me, any more and want OM/OW, instead."

And yes, those thoughts -or something like them- passed through my mind when my wife told me her affair was over.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

I don't know much about the poly, never appealed to my thinking, but I do think any statement or expression to the effect of "There, I told you everything, happy now?" or "what else do you want to know?" is a flimsy line of defense against the truth. Also, she's copping to some petting and making out with a few guys over the course of your marriage, but nothing else happened? Maybe. I suppose. It's possible.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

No…I must have not been clear. The sex has been fantastic the past two years. Long before she told me two weeks ago. Even I am not that naive!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The sex has been good for the last two years? How was it before, was there a change?

You didn't answer the question about how long she w as out of town at a time.

You also didn't answer if she saw the same people while she was out of town.

She thought someone ratted her out. Now I'm guessing she knows you bluffed her since you couldn't add any details.

Have you tried checking her phone, texts etc.?

Does she leave her phone lying around and unlocked?


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> *There is only one use for a polygraph.... parking lot confessions.*. this mean that sometimes subject person freaks out right before the polygraph and starts vocalizing a stream of truth.
> 
> *Polygraphs are wrong 25% of the time.* So even if she took a polygraph you have no way of knowing if the results are accurate. It will cause more confusion then clear up anything.


Make that 50%


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

sorry... Travels to different companies as a consultant. Goes back to the same client for a period of time, then that gig is over, and on to the next week of work somewhere else. 
Up until 2 years ago…no…she never approached me for sex. I always had to initiate. 
Have not looked at her phone or computer. This is all very new.
I bluffed her by saying I saw some things on a chat room of a company she worked for, which is actually the truth. That's how I first became suspicious. She had been taking a few Friday evenings to have beers with the "gang" where she was working instead of coming home. At that time, she worked for a regular company, regular job, no travel. Kid was 1 year old at that time and I took care of him while working from home. A posting on a company stock chat board referred to footsie with her initials and another big wig. That same evening she did not drive home from the bar. Said she was too tipsy and got a ride home. I went to bed about 1 AM that night, when she wasn't back yet. I asked her about the internet posting and she said the union guys do that to discredit management.
I had always wondered/suspicious/didn't want to know…I just didn't want to lose my new son, I guess.
So, fast forward to two weeks ago, I bluffed and told her there was more on the chat room that I didn't show her, and she then told me about time #1. Said they drove home, since she was too tipsy, and stopped at a golf course and made out. 
I then did research, that's just my approach, and got the data about only 17% of spouses who are unfaithful and didn't tell were unfaithful just once. So I showed her the data and she told me of the hallway kissing in the hotel and the internet porn stories.
I didn't want to really get into details here, but I suppose it may help with what you decide.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

great article.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Buddy, you can take all the stats and probability and throw them out the window. With a WW all you can do is hold on because you're in for a rough ride!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> sorry... Travels to different companies as a consultant. Goes back to the same client for a period of time, then that gig is over, and on to the next week of work somewhere else.
> Up until 2 years ago…no…she never approached me for sex. I always had to initiate.
> Have not looked at her phone or computer. This is all very new.
> I bluffed her by saying I saw some things on a chat room of a company she worked for, which is actually the truth. That's how I first became suspicious. She had been taking a few Friday evenings to have beers with the "gang" where she was working instead of coming home. At that time, she worked for a regular company, regular job, no travel. Kid was 1 year old at that time and I took care of him while working from home. A posting on a company stock chat board referred to footsie with her initials and another big wig. That same evening she did not drive home from the bar. Said she was too tipsy and got a ride home. I went to bed about 1 AM that night, when she wasn't back yet. I asked her about the internet posting and she said the union guys do that to discredit management.
> ...


David it's what you want.
Yes the details help for me at least to tell you to stop walking on eggshells my man.
Yes polygraphs are not the most accurate but the threat of one may get you answers.
You know you came here because your gut told you something just isn't right.
Do you want to live like this of course not.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?
> Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?


NO!


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"except that, she still could have lied again 2 weeks ago and said nothing happened, like she did before. She didn't have to say anything. Our marriage was doing great (please no chuckling on that point…I do get the irony!) and she admitted it with nothing to gain from it. Now, she didn't admit the other two instances, but a couple days later, when I showed her the stats, she gave up that info. She didn't have to do that. She could have just said that she was one of the 17% that only cheated once. I would have NEVER found out…so that makes me believe her. Doesn't that follow at all?"

This is both the point and power of trickle-truth.

The WHOLE point is to give you a logical sounding PARTIAL truth, based on info you have already discovered or suspicious about. 

The goal is to get you to stop asking questions for fear of offending the WS and appearing as a jealous control freak.

But the seed of doubt remains with you because, as many other posters have pointed out, there are major logical holes in her story.

You already feel this in your gut.

I'm afraid you have probably only seen the tip of this iceberg.

DO NOT back down.

Insist on a poly to clear the distrust between you which SHE brought into the M.

Tell her that any confessions BEFORE the poly will allow you to consider staying and working on the M, but if it shows she is lying then you will file for D.

And if she gets angry and refuses, tell her that in your view her refusal is clear evidence she is lying and the betrayal goes deeper, so you will file for D.

Chances are she will confess more (but probably NOT ALL at first) when she realizes she is not escaping the poly.

Sometimes it happens while driving to the place or even in the parking lot.

And once her story starts to crumble, keep up the pressure until you feel you have the full truth.

I do not think R works when the WS continues to lie and deceive the BS, though others here might say knowing 100% of the betrayals is not really necessary...I do not agree though.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Like we've said before:

Who makes out? Teenagers, that's who.

Adults have sex. End of story.


Trickle Truth big time. We've seen it many, many times here before.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)




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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Prepare for the, I'll use safe words, "he took advantage of me" defense. Many times, when drunk or tipsy are used, the spouse is building up a defense for their actions.

Wife: "We pulled over, we made out, but I don't really remember what happened after that cuz i wuz 2 tipsy 2 drive!"


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> Up until 2 years ago…no…she never approached me for sex. I always had to initiate.


Did anything change or happen 2 years ago?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

A huge red flag for infidelity is a big change in sex frequency. Either more sex or less sex is huge. Less sex can mean the wayward wife is being faithful to another man or simply getting enough sex from someone else.

More sex can mean someone else is turning up their overall sex drive. It may mean an affair has come to an end. It may mean an affair has started and more sex is being given to belay any suspicions the husband may have.

A higher sex drive may be a function of age also.

You need to check phone/text records, especially the time around two years ago.

Check out facebook and what sites she is/has been visiting.

Is she protective of her phone, now or in the past?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, while you investigate, you should be acting as if you believe everything you have been told and are satisfied with her answers. Otherwise, she will get better at hiding things.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP lets parse the details post into pieces.

>sorry... Travels to different companies as a consultant. Goes back to the same client for a period of time, then that gig is over, and on to the next week of work somewhere else. 
multiple clients at once or one at a time? Timerange at each client?
Up until 2 years ago…no…she never approached me for sex. I always had to initiate. Menopause or perimenopause?
Have not looked at her phone or computer. This is all very new.
Does she leave her phone lying around or is it hooked to her hip 24/7? Is it locked? If yes do you know the combo? company phone? 
I bluffed her by saying I saw some things on a chat room of a company she worked for, which is actually the truth. That's how I first became suspicious. She had been taking a few Friday evenings to have beers with the "gang" where she was working instead of coming home. came home at what time? how many times? At that time, she worked for a regular company, regular job, no travel. Kid was 1 year old at that time and I took care of him while working from home. A posting on a company stock chat board referred to footsie with her initials and another big wig. That same evening she did not drive home from the bar. Said she was too tipsy and got a ride home. (where have we heard this one before 1000x? comment for regular TAMmers not OP. Phillyguy13 and Russ/John at the very least) I went to bed about 1 AM that night, when she wasn't back yet. She got home when? I asked her about the internet posting and she said the union guys do that to discredit management.
I had always wondered/suspicious/didn't want to know…I just didn't want to lose my new son, I guess.
This was X years ago?
So, fast forward to two weeks ago, I bluffed and told her there was more on the chat room that I didn't show her, and she then told me about time #1. Said they drove home, since she was too tipsy, and stopped at a golf course and made out. 
I then did research, that's just my approach, and got the data about only 17% of spouses who are unfaithful and didn't tell were unfaithful just once. So I showed her the data and she told me of the hallway kissing in the hotel and the internet porn stories.
I didn't want to really get into details here, but I suppose it may help with what you decide.<
Hallway took place when roughly?
Porn story took place when roughly?

The porn story one is quite possibly a player doing boundary moving probes.

Her age roughly. "Mid 40s" good enough. How good looking is she by AN OUTSIDE observer with 5 being median, 6 is pretty, 7 is near beautiful, 8 the best pull a normal man ever gets and part time model, 9 goes out with multi-millionaires and a full time model, 10 is perfection all around and 1 in 10,000 women and yea right if you say this.

Does she do a lot of girls nights out?
If yes, gets back when?
Have a BFF that she tells everything?
How often does she do the drinking thing with clients?

One try cheaper than a poly. VAR up push her, then listen to the phone call when she calls her BFF, usually from the car. 
One expensive try, less obvious to her. PI in next outing.

Getting the full story on first try is possible but highly unlikely.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

yes, this being just 2 years ago…she lost a bit of weight, but she was always in very good shape. Got in better shape and said that revved up her drive…which is something that does happen. Bought sexier clothes. Had a bit of cosmetic surgery after that.
She is very pretty, 5'4", 110-115. mid40's. smart. A 9 on most people's scale I would say. Back then, 12-14 years ago when this happened, she was more like a 7. So, she actually is better looking now than then, and her attention has been with me much more as a 9 than when she was a 7, so if that helps at all, there it is.
She has no BFF…no gals night outs. 
I take from all I have read here that I need to determine if she is telling the truth through a poly, regardless of how uncomfortable that makes us both feel while it happens, and regardless as to the error rate of those tests.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't worry about the error rate.

Get her tested.

The key is too shock her.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> yes, this being just 2 years ago…she lost a bit of weight, but she was always in very good shape. Got in better shape and said that revved up her (sex) drive…which is something that does happen.


This is very true. A woman’s body image is very important to her sex drive.



davidsmith003 said:


> She has no BFF…no gals night outs.


Does she still travel?



davidsmith003 said:


> I take from all I have read here that I need to determine if she is telling the truth through a poly, regardless of how uncomfortable that makes us both feel while it happens, and regardless as to the error rate of those tests.


The high error rate isn’t critical. The main thing the poly does for you is to cause them to confess on the way to the test (“parking lot confession”). 

You also learn something from their reaction when you ask them to take the test or how willing they are to take it. How would you react if your wife asked you to take one? I bet you wouldn’t miss a beat and say yes.

A previous poster wrote that the poly confirmed that his wife only had an EA. I’m sure that’s very comforting for him and helped their marriage.

I think that your gut is telling you that it’s likely she had a PA and your brain is having a debate with your gut. Your brain knows that you might be better off not knowing any more than you already do. 

It sounds like you could have a very happy marriage now if you could let go of the things that caused you to post in the first place. 

Forest probably wishes he never confronted his wife about what happened 25 years ago.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/179898-will-i-forever-think-her-my-wife-cheated.html

If you can’t let go and move on, then you need to find out the truth and work with your wife to heal. Or get a divorce.

At this point the only way to find out the truth is a poly. Remember how she lied for 14years until you told her you had some proof? The poly works just like that.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

yes…travels 50% of the time. 
I think I have what I need now. thanks


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

i know you are scared about the unknown. hopefully she's been honest with you and you can move on.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

thanks…I appreciate it.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

david - I have great respect for many of the posters here. I do disagree with the poly I think they are worthless, I almost got one done, but,,,,,,

1. The poly is only as good as the technician administering it. Make sure you find someone who has a solid reputation and high recommendations. There are some who are just bad.

2. It should cost you around $600 depending on where you live and have it done.

3. Don't discount driving some distance if you find a good technician. The one I found was a few hours away.

4. There are some ways to beat the poly and one can educate themself on these techniques. So don't inform your wife if you do this.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Dis. You may have had a SAHM wife but I have never to this day seen ANYONE roast a SAHM and win like you did.


Well much of that is thanks to TAM. But one thing that predates TAM was my ability to cunningly calculate a possible divorce. I started preparing for it before Dday, got legal advice when she showed signs and protected my assets. I would have liked very much to reconcile but keeping my ducks in a row legally and financially allowed me to far outwit my ex wife. 

No matter what route any betrayed husband takes, I think it is of paramount importance to put yourself first and protect yourself.

If I were the OP in this case the very FIRST thing I would do would be to talk to a lawyer.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Disenchanted said:


> *No matter what route any betrayed husband takes, I think it is of paramount importance to put yourself first and protect yourself.*


:iagree:


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> I do disagree with the poly I think they are worthless.


I think the poly could be useful and good...but I would never have bothered with it myself.

I trust my gut and got a confession without it. While I doubt very much that I have the whole truth, I knew what I needed to reconcile and I simply didn't get that from her. So at least in my case, a poly would have been a waste of time and money.

Of course, just her reaction to a demand for a poly would probably be enough for me to know that what is in my gut is real.

I wrote a concise list of requirements for reconciliation and handed it to my at-that-time-wife. A list that was 100% unambiguous, and told her it was 100% non negotiable. It was tough list. Complete transparency, phone access, email access, all details of sexual encounters, and a few other things. 

She refused on the complete transparency demand. I needed nothing more then that refusal to know the marriage was over.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

In regards to the poly, it's a situational tool; to be avoided if possible, unless monitoring options are exhausted. They're not completely accurate; but as I understand them, there's a much greater chance of inaccuracy indicating a lie as the truth versus the truth being a lie.

There are certain situations, such as yours, where a poly is about the only option to have a reasonable chance to find the truth; and in your case, finding out about the PA question is critical. One, because you have a valid reason to doubt her statements (it's just not likely that adults stopped at kissing when they had the opportunity to do more), and two, you need to know what you're trying to get past/forgive if you R. If a PA is your point of no return, then knowing the truth is even more important.

Also, other than just her actual results from the test; you gain a chance for a last minute confession; and have an opportunity to judge her remorse by her willingness to take one or not.

If I was in your shoes I'd research thoroughly first; and then arrange it.

Good luck.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> david - I have great respect for many of the posters here. I do disagree with the poly I think they are worthless, I almost got one done, but,,,,,,
> 
> 1. The poly is only as good as the technician administering it. Make sure you find someone who has a solid reputation and high recommendations. There are some who are just bad.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I agree.

Whenever they ask you a question to which the answer is true, and you don't want to answer true, just ask yourself a question in your head to which the answer is false. 

Unfortunately if your mind is disciplined enough you can outmatch a poly flawlessly.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

DarkHoly said:


> Yeah, I agree.
> 
> Whenever they ask you a question to which the answer is true, and you don't want to answer true, just ask yourself a question in your head to which the answer is false.
> 
> Unfortunately if your mind is disciplined enough you can outmatch a poly flawlessly.


The statistical probability of her having had CIA training is tiny.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Ask yourselves: What does the poly measure?

Then wonder aloud: What different things could affect those measurements?

That's the measure of reliability.

Parking lot confessions are another thing altogether.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> ...
> 
> 4. There are some ways to beat the poly and one can educate themself on these techniques. So don't inform your wife if you do this.


FYI, It might be wise to have a keylogger on her PC (for multiple reasons)...

...if you give her a weeks notice before the poly, you'll see if she starts googling "how to beat a polygraph", or something of that nature.

Good luck buddy...hope it's all good news, but at this point it would be foolish not to verify.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

WyshIknew: thanks, don't want to threadjack either, but can't talk about it yet as divorce is not final until end of May. Still living with STBXW in same house (not same room) and are really just raising kids together until she moves out next month. I am sad at times because of having to start over etc, but happy at other times knowing I don't have to answer to her about anything, nor do I ever have to try and make her happy (not that I ever could). OM is still working at same co. and I guess they could still be together (doubt it though for many reasons) but really don't care if they are. Thanks for asking. 

Hope David goes the route of the Poly. I think he will never feel comfortable with her unless he gets one done.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

russ101 said:


> WyshIknew: thanks, don't want to threadjack either, but can't talk about it yet as divorce is not final until end of May. Still living with STBXW in same house (not same room) and are really just raising kids together until she moves out next month. I am sad at times because of having to start over etc, but happy at other times knowing I don't have to answer to her about anything, nor do I ever have to try and make her happy (not that I ever could). OM is still working at same co. and I guess they could still be together (doubt it though for many reasons) but really don't care if they are. Thanks for asking.
> 
> Hope David goes the route of the Poly. I think he will never feel comfortable with her unless he gets one done.


Russ101 do update us when you can because I was very interested to know if she tried to fight for your marriage or not. Sorry for the T/J.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

russ101 said:


> I found out a while ago (from a friend who had witnessed it) about my (now ex-wifes) boss caressing her leg at a party. When confronting her with it she went from just brushing it off as a drunk boss being an idiot, to (much later and only after I had actually scheduled a poly) admitting to actually having sex with him. This was minutes before she was to take the test. There were many more lies along the way, and to be honest, I doubt I will ever know the full truth, but it really doesn't matter anyway now. I would tell her that to set your mind at ease so there would be no doubt in your mind, that she take a poly. Then actually set one up. Tell her if she passes it, you will not question her about it again. I agree with everyone else on here, I think there was much more than she is admitting to.


Words from a man who did it... And boy did he get trickle truth.

Btw russ... How is life otherwise? Dating? Same job? Update what you can. There are those of us interested in the climb back up and seeing our charges recovery.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

holy crap. i have seen this before.. oh yea, it's my life, but names, dates, ages changed. 

I have posted about this. My date was Sept 2013:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/145449-trust.html#post5751761

Let me guess: 
1) both you and your wife are successful in the workplace
2) your wife values her worth by her work/promotions
3) you wanted kids and she was indifferent 
4) she worked longer/harder at work after having kids (not saying affair but to avoid coming home to screaming kids)
5) she progressed well in the workplace after kids
6) you had a time when you were starting your own biz and were dependent on her income to continue to live comfortably, (she felt really special and accomplished for providing for her family as the sole bread winner)
7) your business took off and now she no longer needs to work
8) she has always been able to get along with men much easier then women
9) she doesn't enjoy mom-type activities (crafts, baking etc)
10) she had sex with you as if it were her job
11) you two rarely argued
12) the passion between the two of you died off after kids (ok that is a gimmie)


close??? if so, I can provide my must do's and don'ts. I my friend was in your situation in Sept 2013. I AM SORRY YOU ARE HERE......


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

russ,

I don't want to thread jack either, but do give us an update when you get a chance.

And I still am hoping you totally crush that POSOM for helping to destroy your children's family.

After you expose the A at her work, I hope that motherf***er ends up in the unemployment line.

I can't stomach scumbags like him...make sure he suffers as many consequences as you can rain down on his head.

Maybe smashing his life up will make him pause before f***ing up the next family's life, as I'm sure s**tbags like him never stop this behavior unless the price gets too high.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

My God! That is so accurate! Do you know me????


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

David. The reason is we all see the patterns. The reason i was able to give you the percent odds is ive read this all before in hundreds of threads. There is rarely anything new here.

We call it the script. Russ story has similarities to yours.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Actually, I am concerned with many red flags that could very well indicate your wife may still be having affairs.

I would encourage you to investigate and lay low for awhile before you bring up the poly with her.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> Can't there be any chance that what she is saying is true?
> Is there anyone on here who had a wife who strayed 2 or 3 times but actually never went past the kissing/groping level?…I know you all are saying I'm in denial and I know the characteristic of that is to not know you are in it! Catch 22. It would be nice if there was someone on here who had that experience.
> But... I hear you.
> And "manning up" is turning down the women who have come on to me over the years (used to be a tennis pro…comes with the job).
> Right now, I'm just looking for good advice, and I take your point regarding the polygraph.


davidS you had a gut feeling before she " came clean "

How much is your gut telling you now ?

It must be in overdrive!!

Pay attention to it

55


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

David-

The ultimate question for you.. if she has lied and cheated on you in the most terrible way(s) you can imagine, would you still want to be with her - assuming she can be completely honest with you about whatever details in the past you want and that she never does this again (there is no guarantee that she will not)? Assume you can move on from this, your kids will be OK, re-marry and find someone else.....

This is not an easy question to answer, but the one I had to ponder (and kind of still am...)... if it's a resounding no, then you need to protect yourself and move on. Otherwise it might be worth you trying to reconcile. But know this, you must have the complete truth (it took my wife 3+ months), and the more time with lies she tells you, the less chance that the two of you will survive (the trickle truth is just as painful as the day you found out). Be skeptical of her intentions, as they maybe just to pacify the situation and to save her embarrassment. You need to disclose the affair to people close to you(your parents, her parents, etc). That way, the embarrassment is there, and intentions to reconcile are a little more clear. She must be remorseful, no anger towards you, no excuses (which she may say are reasons), and want to be with you more then ever.

I still wake up with anxiety and triggers every night. My wife wakes up with me (3am) and stays awake until I fall back asleep. She comforts me, she tries to understand my pain, and is willing to answer any redundant questions I have about her affair. She fears I may leave, and I fear she may leave. We WANT to be together, not out of NEED, and that is what keeps us together....for now.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

And might I add.....

Your title of this thread screams that you are not here in reality. Do not brush this aside, do not ignore the facts, do not live in fantasy land. She has and probably still is cheating on you. Sex without a condom... SEX!! I know you probably just threw up a little but that is reality. You never thought she would be like that ---none of us do otherwise we would never marry - but she is f***ing some other dude(s). I know you probably want to punch me, but you must wake up. 

Again - I am sorry you are here.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

pauslon said:


> This is not an easy question to answer, but the one I had to ponder (and kind of still am...)But know this, you must have the complete truth (it took my wife 3+ months), and the more time with lies she tells you, the less chance that the two of you will survive (the trickle truth is just as painful as the day you found out). Be skeptical of her intentions, as they maybe just to pacify the situation and to save her embarrassment.


Interesting factoid. From my experience here.

A wife who did "the works" in an affair but surrenders completely
is about as likely to get reconciliation as 
a wife who "only" had an ea but put up a month of trickle truth.

A PA destroys a marriage.
the lies that follow prevent a new one involving the same people.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Interesting factoid. From my experience here.
> 
> A wife who did "the works" in an affair but surrenders completely
> is about as likely to get reconciliation as
> ...


Truth!


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

Kids are 10 and 15. My wife and I get along great…well…except for me right now trying to make sense of this. 
Update: I saw a counselor today. A good one. Seen it all. Her PHD and experience practicing made her conclude the same things this message board is telling me…that there is more, possibly much more. She didn't like the poly. It's true about the inaccuracy of polys, but she did suggest that my wife see her and confess all, if there is more. 
We both agree I can't move out of this state of unhappiness nor can I move towards a decision about the marriage until I know everything. 
So basically, I could have saved 260 bucks for the hour and a half, or else you guys need to start charging!
I'm just not as jaded as some, I guess, since my case is one where we really are happy together and it may be that she is truly remorseful. Only time, and maybe the threat of a polygraph, will tell.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

davidsmith003 said:


> Kids are 10 and 15. My wife and I get along great…well…except for me right now trying to make sense of this.
> Update: I saw a counselor today. A good one. Seen it all. Her PHD and experience practicing made her conclude the same things this message board is telling me…that there is more, possibly much more. She didn't like the poly. It's true about the inaccuracy of polys, but she did suggest that my wife see her and confess all, if there is more.
> We both agree I can't move out of this state of unhappiness nor can I move towards a decision about the marriage until I know everything.
> So basically, I could have saved 260 bucks for the hour and a half, or else you guys need to start charging!
> I'm just not as jaded as some, I guess, since my case is one where we really are happy together and it may be that she is truly remorseful. Only time, and maybe the threat of a polygraph, will tell.


Good work!

Seeing the counselor will do nothing as far as getting the truth goes. If she can lie to the person that knows her best in the world, lying to a total stranger - who she will see as "the enemy" will mean nothing to her.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

good point


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> I'm just not as jaded as some, I guess, since my case is one where we really are happy together


Sorry dude, she may be remorseful, but nope we have many posters that say the same thing. Your current confusion, your feelings and seeing your marriage as happy otherwise, as opposed to this "aberration," is not unique.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

David

I think it is awesome that you are happy in your marriage.

You obviously love your wife and it sounds like she loves you.

Get to the bottom of what is bothering you. Get the truth.

Make sure your wife understands and agrees to the boundaries in your marriage and that the two of you are on the same page.

HM


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

I hear you


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

intheory said:


> @davidsmith003
> 
> "I forgave her, and made her feel better. I didn't want her to hurt and I was grateful she confessed to all, if that is all."
> 
> ...


For her to say what she is saying about how little she actually did is like asking a man what he did in the strip joint and him saying he didn't look at the dancers.

We have seen many examples of travelling men and women here. Unfortunately, this is following a familiar pattern. 

Folks that travel have a tendency to be tempted by loneliness and distance from anyone who knows them to start living a double life. I have no doubt that your wife loves you very much. Its just that she has another life when she leaves her house and goes on the road.

This really has nothing to do with you. Its all on her and her choice of work.

Have you backed up her phone to the computer and used a program to find her deleted messages?


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

no…can you please tell me how to back it up? It's an iPhone 5c.
I started checking our phone bill daily because it shows her calls and messages. The thing is, so many texts to me are not showing up as having happened on the list of messages sent…so I am wondering if she is using some text app…even though it does not show on the text to me that it is coming from an app lie text free. Anyway, this could mean that she is using some sort of other text program that our verizon iPhone texts to each other? thanks a lot


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

in other words…if I wasn't clear…her calls are showing up accurately on the verizon usage record online, but many of the texts to me are not showing up as having been sent by her to me, even though I am getting texts from her. Could she be using a text ap that I don't know about, out of habit, that she used with other guys?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I believe, if you both have iPhones, they do an iPhone to iPhone texting that is not part of your contract and won't show up on the bill. You can text each other by the iPhone thing if it is activated. I guess hers is.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Do you have apple Mac or ipad? I believe of they are synced then you can see every text that is sent. Others here will be able to give better details of needed. 

I think you need to start snooping here. But you must pretend all is fine, and don't confront with anything you find until you have run it past people here. You will regret it if you end up confronting with what you feel is solid and find that she makes up plausible answers on the hop. Cheaters can explain just about anything away. Plausibly! And once you confront, she then knows you have been snooping and she will know how to hide stuff better.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Go to the apple store and see what is and has been on her phone.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There are threads here that people have synched the phone to itunes and then used a program to get deleted texts, including imessages. I think. 

Hopefully, one of those guys will catch this.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Try pm to Lordmayhem, he has a lot of experience with iphones.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

thanks


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

davidsmith003 said:


> thanks


try this thread. you may find someone here that can answer specifics http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...spy-catching-them-technology.html#post1449265


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

David,
Good luck. My stbx was also a consultant, a fabulous liar and a serial cheater. I thought we had had a bad spell but that our marriage was in a really strong place, when I discovered his cheating. It was still going on. 25 years of lies. 

All I can say is do not bury your head in the sand. You deserve better. Your kids deserve a parent who has the fortitude to go after a healthy, honest relationship (whether or not you decide to R).


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

thanks…very helpful. I'm hoping a good old fashioned talk will do it. But if not...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

davidsmith003 said:


> thanks…very helpful. I'm hoping a good old fashioned talk will do it. But if not...


That is never advised here. Cheaters are consummate liars. If she is cheating she will convince you otherwise. She will take it further underground. You may only get one chance at this.

Im guessing she has been doing this a long time and will be able to lie like a rug. Worse still, when a cheater gets worried you know, they will go to extraordinary lengths to hide their actions. This has led to people being cheated on for years before they were able to get proof.

Do not be lazy or fearful. Your number one purpose as head of the household is to protect your family. Do not waver in this.

If you look up infidelity statistics, you will see 80% of cheaters are never caught. Probably more than that since it has been proven women will even lie about it in an anonymous study.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

I guess you're right. Just having such an incredibly difficult time adjusting my thinking and approach. Thanks


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

In this context, nice guys really do finish last.


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## davidsmith003 (Apr 11, 2014)

already have


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Go to the mmslp link below and read the reviews. You should download the book there or amazon and read it to before you have any convos with your wife. Marriage changes us but we can fix it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

davidsmith003 said:


> already have


No, you are just at the start of your new journey, you've been given knowledge and power don't finish last. Yes, that includes divorce and reconciliation.


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