# I am totally lost and need help, please...



## LucySoares (Feb 4, 2012)

First of all I need to say that I am not married and never have been. My story is about an ex-bf I loved (and still love) with all my soul. I am only posting here, because I found that in this forum people truly want to be helpful. I did not have much luck in the other sites I have tried post story.So I hope you guys don't mind. Sorry the post is long but I had to write the whole story.

I have never really had much luck with romances, and before meeting this bf in question, I had two ther bfs who cheated on me. The only difference between the three of them is that the last one was the only one who showed remorse and regret for his action. The other two seemed almost proud of themselves for what they did.

Anyway, I dated this guy for three years and a few months. We had lots of things in common and we both had been looking for someone whom to build a solid relationship with. He was like my soul mate and we were truly happy together. We started talking about marriage, he was really excited about the idea of marrying me. Which I thought was cute cause many men run away from that idea. But he did not, so... : )

One day we had a big fight (which we rarely do) before he went back home to visit his family and while in a get together his family organized, he drank more than he should have and ended up having a ONS with some random girl. He admits that being angry/hurt and drunk played a part, but again he said he takes full responsability for what he did.

The very next day he called me crying and told me everything which had happened. He did mention that he was drunk, but did'nt try and use that as an excuse. He told me it was purely sexual, no kissing, no cuddling afterwards, they just did it and went their ways. 

And yes he eventually got blood tests and Thank God he did not catch anything nasty. The girl did not get pregnant either. He knows that because his family knows her and she said she was the pill. Anyway it's been a while so if she had a child they would know it by now. 

He sounded truly hurt and remorseful. Yet I was too devasted over the whole thing and could not take him back at that time. I told him one day I could forgive him, but not take him back.

He tried everything to earn a secong chance, no drinking when I wasn't with him, no being alone with other girls, etc...
Anyway, I just couldn't get over the pain of being cheated on by yet another bf. Specially since he was the one man I loved in the purest (is that right?!) sense of the word. 

I moved away and cut all contact with him. He was devasted just sitting there watching me gather my stuff to leave his house. He was virtually dead to me as far as I was concerned.

I hated him for almost a whole year. I hated when someone, like my brother (who's was his best friend) tried to tell me that he went into a depression and was a broken man over me breaking up with him, but above all for cheating on me. My brother said he never forgave himself for what happened that day.

About a month later I had a car accident (I am 100% recovered now). A few days later, my brother told that my ex had been there every single day after the accident. He came into the room only after my brother told him I wasn going to be mad at him. 

My brother said that he would talk about what happened and how sorry he was, saying that if I died his life would be over too. Sometimes he would just stay there with my family. 

The point is that his actions touched my so deep I realised I still love very much. The fact that he came to the hospital just to be there for me after I cut him out of my life for a year. It blew me away. He could've just forgotten about me and moved on with his life. Yet he didn't, he still thought about me and still wanted me back. He was there for me, even though he knew I might even be mad at him for doing so. 

After I left the hospital he asked me if I would let him visit me at home and I said yes. He is even more wonderful now then he had been (before he cheated he was always the perfect bf). 

He obvious still wants a chance and he wants to prove to me in ever way possible that he would do anything (besides all that he is doing already) to deserve my love again. And the truth is that I want him back too.

What do I do now? Can I trust that, after suffering for a whole year the consequences of his infidelity, he finally learned his lesson? My heart tells me to go for it, that he truly regrets his behavior and he is showing me this every day he is there for me, when in fact he did not have to.

I need some advice. What would you guys do if you were in my shoes?

Thank you for the time.

PS.:Usually I am that woman who hates the rationalization "it was only sex, you're the one I love", afterall it doesn't hurt any less to be cheated on only because someone says that. But I do understand that in this case it most likely was only sex. My fear is that he might see my forgiveness as me being submissive(did I spell it right?) and believe I am saying that I wouldn't mind if he did it again, as long as he says it was only sex again.


----------



## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

Give in!


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Anyone and everyone can screw up. It's not the screwing up that defines who we are, it's the getting back up afterwards that does. 

Could he cheat on you again? Of course, but that's no different a reality than it was two years ago. Love, relationships, trust - are all risk. 

He has done what everyone here would say is exactly what he should have. He confessed to you, and obviously still cares about you. If you love him my vote would be to give him a second chance.


----------



## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

It sounds like the guy admitted his ONS and appears to have learned a valuable lesson. It is always hard to trust when someone has betrayed you. Do you believe people can make mistakes, can change for the better? If you do believe mistakes and changes are possible are you willing to throw away a chance to have a more meaningful and mature relationship?


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Anyone and everyone can screw up. It's not the screwing up that defines who we are, it's the getting back up afterwards that does.
> 
> Could he cheat on you again? Of course, but that's no different a reality than it was two years ago. Love, relationships, trust - are all risk.
> 
> He has done what everyone here would say is exactly what he should have. He confessed to you, and obviously still cares about you. If you love him my vote would be to give him a second chance.


:iagree:

Talk about expectations going forward.Clear boundaries and consequences.Best to you both.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

It depends on whether you believe people can change from the core or not.

If you do believe it, the crapshoot is that you might be guessing wrong and letting yourself in for more of the same. If he's skilful enough about it, you may never find out.

If you don't believe it, the crapshoot is that you might be needlessly forsaking something good.

Either way, you have to recognize and live with both the good and bad possibilities of your belief. And either way, your life will be richer if you guess right and poorer if you guess wrong.

From experience, I have become a "don't." If I were you, I would tell him to take a hike, I'd say that running around is in his foundation and you can do better. But that's just me.



LucySoares said:


> My fear is that he might see my forgiveness as me being submissive(did I spell it right?) and believe I am saying that I wouldn't mind if he did it again, as long as he says it was only sex again.


I think that's exactly what you're in for next time you have a squabble. I assume he's an adult, and adults make decisions. Children make mistakes.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

lascarx said:


> adults make decisions. Children make mistakes.


So you've never made a mistake? Must be nice.


----------



## VENOMIZED_199 (Feb 4, 2012)

Lucy,

give him that second chance. He could of not said anything but he was a man and had the guts to tell you. In my opinion he is a good man. He also really cares allot because if he didn't you would of not seen him at the hospital. Hands down take him back. 

Bill....


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's probably worth giving him a chance. He knows your limits, you stuck to them for some time. It was only him doing something extraordinary that has won your heart back. Hopefully he has learned how precious it is to have your heart now.

Do know though that he is susceptible to cheating. So there is work that the two of you need to do to affair proof your relationship.

I highly recommend that the two of you read the books linked to in my signature block under building a passionate marriage. They are largely about affair proofing your marriage.

Good luck to you and your guy!!


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> So you've never made a mistake? Must be nice.


I've made bad decisions, but they were decisions, I went into them with my eyes open, ready to accept the consequences. And no, I've never done wrong just for kicks.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I guess to me that's the difference between a "mistake" and an "accident" I've made lots of mistakes that were deliberate decisions - some I knew were mistakes when I made them others only the benefit of hindsight revealed the error. 

This is a semantics debate so it's fundamentally a waste of time but to me, my affair was a mistake but it was by no means an accident.


----------



## VENOMIZED_199 (Feb 4, 2012)

I have made some mistakes also. I'm not happy about them but I have. What causes people to cheat? I think it would come down to not getting it at home. For me I am very sexual with high energy. I can be intiment for numrous hours......all day. People make mistakes but he sounds like a good guy.

Bill
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I guess to me that's the difference between a "mistake" and an "accident" I've made lots of mistakes that were deliberate decisions - some I knew were mistakes when I made them others only the benefit of hindsight revealed the error.
> 
> This is a semantics debate so it's fundamentally a waste of time but to me, my affair was a mistake but it was by no means an accident.


There's a difference between thinking that you would take you back and saying that anyone else should. I don't know what your spouse chose to do with you, but if you got taken back, I say you got lucky, and if you got booted, you deserved it. If you got lucky, bully for you, no skin off my back.

I still stand by my opinion that if you're unfaithful, you're deliberately doing wrong.


----------



## VENOMIZED_199 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yeah I agree being unfaithful is wrong, but sometimes in certain cases it was the spouse who forgot about the relationship so the other one strays. It takes two to make a marriage work.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

VENOMIZED_199 said:


> Yeah I agree being unfaithful is wrong, but sometimes in certain cases it was the spouse who forgot about the relationship so the other one strays. It takes two to make a marriage work.


The one who strays had the choice to be honest and ask for a divorce. What doesn't work, doesn't work.

Lying and hiding are wrong any way you cut it.


----------



## VENOMIZED_199 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yes I totally agree that it is wrong but before it gets to the point of an affair people both Men/Woman should communicate and make it work. People have needs and when they are not met things can happen. It is really sad but I would say 60% of people probably are cheating. What is the world coming to?


----------



## VENOMIZED_199 (Feb 4, 2012)

I am going to be honest with everyone, I personally am not getting what I want from my current situation but part of it could be my fault also. I'm not sure where to turn or what to do.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

VENOMIZED_199 said:


> Yes I totally agree that it is wrong but before it gets to the point of an affair people both Men/Woman should communicate and make it work. People have needs and when they are not met things can happen. It is really sad but I would say 60% of people probably are cheating. What is the world coming to?


You answered your own question. The world is coming to being about abdicating responsibility, about taking destructive, self-serving hedonism and whitewashing it with statements like "people have needs and when they are not met things can happen."

Don't mean to run you down, but you need to take a closer look at what unfaithfulness can do.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

VENOMIZED_199 said:


> I am going to be honest with everyone, I personally am not getting what I want from my current situation but part of it could be my fault also. I'm not sure where to turn or what to do.


Be straight and do right. That doesn't mean stay in a situation where you're not happy, but never hide anything and never lie. If you want to work on it, go ahead. If you don't, own up to that, be as kind as you can and move forward.


----------



## VENOMIZED_199 (Feb 4, 2012)

You are not running me down I do appreciate the advice. I'm not sure how to go about this.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

VENOMIZED_199 said:


> You are not running me down I do appreciate the advice. I'm not sure how to go about this.


The first thing you can do is start a thread here and ask for help. Its easy and you don't have to take any advise given to you but it could save a lot of people a world of hurt. I am assuming it has something to do with infidelity since you are monitoring this section. If its not pick the right section and start a thread, how could it hurt to get some opinions? If your not sure pick the General Relationship section and you will likely get more results because of how many people veiw that section along with Coping with Infidelity and the Sex in Marriage sections. 

If your thinking of commiting adultery remember, everyone doesn't come through that OK. Some do not make it at all.


----------



## VENOMIZED_199 (Feb 4, 2012)

No I am not thinking about that but I would like our relationship to be healthier and filled with happiness.

Bill
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

VENOMIZED_199 said:


> No I am not thinking about that but I would like our relationship to be healthier and filled with happiness.
> 
> Bill
> Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Post your concerns in the General Relationship section I am guessing. If your having trouble get the book "Five Love Languages" Its usually acommunication issue. Also go here;

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

and here: Married Man Sex Life

another good book " His Needs Her Needs"


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

lascarx said:


> There's a difference between thinking that you would take you back and saying that anyone else should. I don't know what your spouse chose to do with you, but if you got taken back, I say you got lucky, and if you got booted, you deserved it. If you got lucky, bully for you, no skin off my back.
> 
> I still stand by my opinion that if you're unfaithful, you're deliberately doing wrong.


Oh there's no doubt I was deliberately doing wrong - and I have never believed or tried to sell it as any thing else. I made the decisions and the prices are mine to pay. No one has an affair by accident. 

Given what I believe about people and knowing what I do about me and what I did - I would have taken me back - lucky for me my wife agreed. And yes - I did get lucky.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Given what I believe about people


There you are. It's about what you believe. I happen to believe that you're fooling yourself if you think you've fundamentally changed somehow due to this experience.

Again, none of my concern. I hope you do fine, I hope everyone does fine.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Most betrayed partners say that the sex part is not the most painful part of an affair by their partner, it is the lying and deception that goes along with an on-going affair.

Your BF had a drunken one night stand. He could have kept it from you but he called you and confessed all. 

If you truly want him back, sit him down and lay out the boundaries you expect him to follow. BTW - no Boy/Girls Nights Out that involve bars or clubs would be a good rule for you both. Many relationships have been trashed because people just fail to recognize that alcohol in a bar or club atmosphere without your partner is a recipe for disaster.

He was honest with you when he really could have attempted to hide it. He expressed true remorse and asked for your forgiveness. He was there for you when you where injured.

Your choice, but it sounds like he may be worth another chance.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

lascarx said:


> There you are. It's about what you believe. I happen to believe that you're fooling yourself if you think you've fundamentally changed somehow due to this experience.
> 
> Again, none of my concern. I hope you do fine, I hope everyone does fine.


OMG - If I have gone through all the pain and destruction of my affair and NOT changed I'll jump off a bridge. To think that I could go through that - that my wife and I could go through that - and NOT learn from it and make ourselves and our marriage better is just tragic. I would never say I'm above making mistakes, but I would say that I always - always - learn from them and that is change. 

The above doesn't really address your point though. I interpret your position to believe that someone who cheats has a fundamental character flaw. To this I steadfastly disagree. Some cheaters do - serial cheaters, those who lie and pursue false reconciliation to the point that it steals their spouse's soul - they do, but not all cheaters. As I said to the OP - everyone and anyone can screw up and it's not our mistakes that define us - its how we handle and deal with them that does. The difference IMO is that for people like serial cheats for who it is a character flaw it's not a mistake, it's part of who they are. For some of us though - it is just a horrible mistake and therefore something we can change.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

VENOMIZED_199 said:


> I am going to be honest with everyone, I personally am not getting what I want from my current situation but part of it could be my fault also. I'm not sure where to turn or what to do.


Well you know that I had an affair and I read where that's not an issue for you but let me tell you - do not cheat. The prices you will pay you cannot fathom. Every cheater here on TAM will tell you that the scars will be with them for the rest of their lives. Post over in the general section, read those books that were suggested, above all talk to your wife. I'm one of the lucky ones - my affair was a wake up call to my wife and I and we have used it too make our marriage better than it has ever been. Don't let it get to that point. Go talk to your wife. 

To the OP - my apologies for the my thread jack.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I interpret your position to believe that someone who cheats has a fundamental character flaw.


That's right.



sigma1299 said:


> To this I steadfastly disagree.


That's your right. Hopefully you're right and it won't just end up a behavioral experiment to your wife's final regret.



sigma1299 said:


> Some cheaters do - serial cheaters, those who lie and pursue false reconciliation to the point that it steals their spouse's soul - they do, but not all cheaters. As I said to the OP - everyone and anyone can screw up and it's not our mistakes that define us - its how we handle and deal with them that does. The difference IMO is that for people like serial cheats for who it is a character flaw it's not a mistake, it's part of who they are. For some of us though - it is just a horrible mistake and therefore something we can change.


Sounds to me like you're just picking up the chalk and drawing the line south of where you happen to stand. Anyone can do that.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

lascarx said:


> That's right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope - I'm not a serial cheat - never been anywhere near it before and never going near it again. And I have done everything - everything - to rebuild my marriage. I have willingly paid the prices for my actions and been held accountable for what I did.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Nope - I'm not a serial cheat - never been anywhere near it before and never going near it again. And I have done everything - everything - to rebuild my marriage. I have willingly paid the prices for my actions and been held accountable for what I did.


I still say the foundation remains as laid. What stands between you and doing it again is strength of will and that only. And willpower fails more often than it succeeds, but I think most know that when they chance it.

I think that's enough. Good luck to you.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

The foundation does stay as laid. I have a wonderful wife and a wonderful marriage as I did before my affair. What stands between me and cheating again is strength of will? Well in a manner that's correct but what really stands between me and a repeat is that I would never ever do that to me or my wife again. 

I'm not above temptation - no one is - so yes strength of will is a large part of it, but so is my commitment to me and my wife. If I ever arrived at the point again where I was tempted and wanted to give in I would tell my wife and let her make her own decisions accordingly. Never would I cheat or live a lie again. I learn from my mistakes and try very very hard to not make the same one twice.


----------



## LucySoares (Feb 4, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Well you know that I had an affair and I read where that's not an issue for you but let me tell you - do not cheat. The prices you will pay you cannot fathom. Every cheater here on TAM will tell you that the scars will be with them for the rest of their lives. Post over in the general section, read those books that were suggested, above all talk to your wife. I'm one of the lucky ones - my affair was a wake up call to my wife and I and we have used it too make our marriage better than it has ever been. Don't let it get to that point. Go talk to your wife.
> 
> To the OP - my apologies for the my thread jack.


No problem. I am glad my story has given one more chance for people to talk and expose their points of view.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I'm not above temptation - no one is -


Friend, I have to say this is getting funny. I just commented on another thread where this guy was saying that he was now ready to do right even though he cheated twice, and I was wondering what you might say to that, with your one-cheat rule.

Anyway, he basically used that same line about how everyone can mess up, and I say, no, you messed up.

It is you who's not above temptation, leave the rest of us out of it. And if it were really only you, the principle would be the same, it's you that has to make it or break it.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

So you are above temptation? You've never been tempted by something you knew was wrong? Again - must be nice. If you manage to make it through your life without ever hurting someone you love or succumbing to temptation than all of us here should bow to you - but you're human just like me and everyone else here - so you have your scars and mistakes same as everyone else. 

I would not judge you by those mistakes but rather what you did with them. 

Everyone can and does mess up - you said you're no exception. What I would say to that thread is this. If I cheated again and my wife took me back she'd be a fool. In reality she wouldn't get that chance because I'd out myself rather than make her do it.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> So you are above temptation? You've never been tempted by something you knew was wrong? Again - must be nice. If you manage to make it through your life without ever hurting someone you love or succumbing to temptation than all of us here should bow to you - but you're human just like me and everyone else here - so you have your scars and mistakes same as everyone else.


And my attitude is: my failure and my failure alone. Not general failings of human nature, but my failings. I don't water things down with little interjections about how others can also be expected to fail. I know what I expect of myself.



sigma1299 said:


> I would not judge you by those mistakes but rather what you did with them.


Again, as long as those "mistakes" stayed north of where you decided to draw your line. As soon as they go south of there, you put another label on them entirely.



sigma1299 said:


> Everyone can and does mess up - you said you're no exception. What I would say to that thread is this. If I cheated again and my wife took me back she'd be a fool. In reality she wouldn't get that chance because I'd out myself rather than make her do it.


You just made my point for me.

I get the sinking feeling that this isn't getting anywhere. Debate with waywards, no matter how reformed, never really seems to. No offense meant.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

lascarx said:


> And my attitude is: my failure and my failure alone. Not general failings of human nature, but my failings. I don't water things down with little interjections about how others can also be expected to fail. I know what I expect of myself.


So you paint yourself better than the rest of us? Or do you hold the rest of us to a higher standard than you hold yourself?




lascarx said:


> Again, as long as those "mistakes" stayed north of where you decided to draw your line. As soon as they go south of there, you put another label on them entirely.


I don't understand your point here. I have never said my affair was anything other than something I did deliberately. I have never once tried to minimize it here or anywhere else.





lascarx said:


> You just made my point for me.


Of course I just made your point for you - we believe some of the same things. The difference is that you only see black and white while I see shades of grey and human failing.



lascarx said:


> I get the sinking feeling that this isn't getting anywhere. Debate with waywards, no matter how reformed, never really seems to. No offense meant.


Well, first I'm not reformed. I made a mistake and I'm doing everything I can to fix it, I will not repeat it. Second, of course this isn't going anywhere - you see only black and white and make no allowance for someone to really screw up, fix it, and move on. I will not accept judgement that my affair makes me a bad person or even a bad husband. In reality I've done other, less dramatic things, that would come closer to making me question what kind of person I am. You wont get me to accept that good people aren't capable of making really bad mistakes and I won't get you to accept that one really bad mistake doesn't make me a bad person.

I'm done for the night but I'll be back tomorrow.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> So you paint yourself better than the rest of us? Or do you hold the rest of us to a higher standard than you hold yourself?


Neither. I just see no need to qualify my failings by saying that anyone could have them. When I fail, I fail. Period.



sigma1299 said:


> I don't understand your point here. I have never said my affair was anything other than something I did deliberately. I have never once tried to minimize it here or anywhere else.
> 
> I will not accept judgement that my affair makes me a bad person or even a bad husband. In reality I've done other, less dramatic things, that would come closer to making me question what kind of person I am. You wont get me to accept that good people aren't capable of making really bad mistakes and I won't get you to accept that one really bad mistake doesn't make me a bad person.


I haven't made those judgements against you. Reduced to bedrock, the argument is that I say one cheat makes a character flaw, and you say it takes two cheats. You're not a bad person, but you are a cheater and I believe that means where some of us have the innate moral imperative not to do wrong, you have only willpower and fear of consequences. I don't envy you that burden, and don't wish you ill.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that some people are very proud and do not realize their own vulnerabilty.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I think that some people are very proud and do not realize their own vulnerabilty.


Yes, pity that cheaters just don't get how quickly it can all come down.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

lascarx said:


> Neither. I just see no need to qualify my failings by saying that anyone could have them. When I fail, I fail. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't made those judgements against you. Reduced to bedrock, the argument is that I say one cheat makes a character flaw, and you say it takes two cheats. You're not a bad person, but you are a cheater and I believe that means where some of us have the innate moral imperative not to do wrong, you have only willpower and fear of consequences. I don't envy you that burden, and don't wish you ill.


I don't say it takes two - or one - or three. I say we're all humans and as such are all flawed and that it takes examination and consideration by the people involved to determine what was a mistake and what may be a deep seated character flaw. To believe that a one off mistake instantly means that the person lacks "the innate moral imperative not to do wrong" is - well - black and white and unrealistic. I hope when you need it most no one cuts you with the same sword you are wielding.

I assure you I have just as much desire to not do wrong or to do right as you do. I'm just willing to accept that humans are flawed and can make a mistake and that doing so does not instantly condemn their character. 

I will say that IMO a repeat offense - and this applies to lots of things in addition to cheating - does start to indicate something about a person's character. I did cheat and I can't change that so in that regard I will always be a cheater but that does not mean that I will cheat again or that I will spend the rest of my life resisting a temptation to cheat. I love my wife and have no desire to be with any woman other than her. 

This has turned into me defending myself - which I really have no interest in. It's pointless to try to defend something which I freely admit was horrible and can't be defended or justified. My position is what I believe (and did long before my affair), not my justification or defense. I've been on both sides - I have forgiven and been forgiven by this same set of beliefs.


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Give him a chance. It was a drunken ONS, and he seems to be contrite and willing to be transparent.


----------



## Husban441 (Jan 31, 2012)

Lucy, I truly understand your situation and the emotions you must be going through. First as you said you are not married you are dating. You may feel that dating is a commitment and it is in many ways but it is not being married. Dating is more like an interview and testing ground for marriage. This gentleman agreed did cheat on you but as you say he shows remorse this does not mean he will cheat on you in marriage. Prior to me getting married I dated a lot, I had many different girl friends and many one night stands. My friends considered me a playboy and every day a new girl, so it seemed to them. Yes I have cheated on occasions on my girl friends and of course we never lasted either. When I finally got married I made that coconscious commitment to honor my wife. I have had many opportunities but I have never cheated on my wife and when I find myself in a situation a married person should not be I excuse myself from this situation. I truly believe that my dating relationships including the ones I cheated in made me realize how hurtful and how much damage an affair can be, so I chose to be a better man because of it. This maybe what your boyfriend has also realized. One last thing ask your self why did all my other boyfriends cheat on me? Is their a track record here? take a look at your self and your own self respect and refuse to allow this to enter your relationship.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I don't say it takes two - or one - or three. I say we're all humans and as such are all flawed and that it takes examination and consideration by the people involved to determine what was a mistake and what may be a deep seated character flaw. To believe that a one off mistake instantly means that the person lacks "the innate moral imperative not to do wrong" is - well - black and white and unrealistic. I hope when you need it most no one cuts you with the same sword you are wielding.
> 
> I assure you I have just as much desire to not do wrong or to do right as you do. I'm just willing to accept that humans are flawed and can make a mistake and that doing so does not instantly condemn their character.
> 
> ...


Friend, I'm going to try and put this in even plainer language and hope you get it, and if you don't, we'll just have to drop it.

I don't drink often, but I've been known to tie one on occasionally. Sometimes I was out without my wife, with the boys. The worst I ever did was make people listen to my singing, which is probably worse than a waterboarding during the doing of it, but leaves no lasting damage, at least not last I heard. And when a lady expressed interest in me, I said no thanks, even when I was pretty well snookered. It just didn't interest me because that's the way I'm set up, not to cheat on my wife. It is indeed a moral imperative.

Contrast that with the fellow who can't control his impulses when he's had a snootful, and ends up with a broken-hearted wife. It's clear - he has to live by different rules than me. That's life, the luck of the draw. I can drink in mixed company without having my wife or partner around, and he has to exercise willpower not to drink no matter how much he wants to join the party. He has to watch himself and only himself, and should not be bothering with whether his weaknesses are common to the human species. Do you get what I'm saying? You can take my booze analogy and apply it to anything you like, pretty co-workers, face-book pals, whatever.

You don't have to defend yourself, bully for you if you can do right from now on in. My point is that there are cheaters and non-cheaters. Cheaters need to watch it carefully at all times and non-cheaters don't. And cheaters shouldn't go around claiming that we're all cheaters given the requisite circumstances. We're not. That's what set me on to you to begin with.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Where on earth did I say everyone is a cheater? I'd really like you to show me that. I get it, I just disagree with you. Don't patronize me or treat me like I'm stupid because I have a different opinion. This debate isn't about me, it's about what you and I think people are.

What set us off on each other was the sanctimonious statement that children make mistakes, adults make decisions to which I say B.S. 

Everyone is flawed - if you think you're not you need a serious reality check. Does that mean everyone will cheat or could cheat - of course not, but it does mean everyone is capable of making a serious mistake that they are fundamentally better than. That mistake can certainly be many things other than cheating.

I'm off to watch the Super Bowl.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Where on earth did I say everyone is a cheater? I'd really like you to show me that.


Here you go:



sigma1299 said:


> I'm not above temptation - no one is - so yes strength of will is a large part of it, but so is my commitment to me and my wife.


When it comes to cheating, which this is about, some of us are above temptation. Doesn't make me better than you, I might be an axe-murderer to go along with my faithfulness, but it's silly to put these little bits in. It's not really a big deal to me, but all cheaters seem to need to do it in every third or fourth sentence, it's always that little soothing bit implying I'm-just-human-and-it-can-happen-to-anyone-even-you. It grates.



sigma1299 said:


> What set us off on each other was the sanctimonious statement that children make mistakes, adults make decisions to which I say B.S.


Which saying is of course in your own self-interest.



sigma1299 said:


> Everyone is flawed - if you think you're not you need a serious reality check. Does that mean everyone will cheat or could cheat - of course not, but it does mean everyone is capable of making a serious mistake that they are fundamentally better than. That mistake can certainly be many things other than cheating.


Sure I'm flawed. My flaws don't happen to be anything having to do with unfaithfulness, and that's why they're not relevant here.

Cheaters often fall into the position of basically saying that all flaws are equal. The implication is that because everyone is flawed and screws up, it means that cheating should just be treated like any other possible screwup. That seems to be another mantra with which cheaters comfort themselves and advise others.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> Give him a chance. It was a drunken ONS, and he seems to be contrite and willing to be transparent.


Friend, what she needs to do is decide if she can handle him doing it again.

He seems to think having a fight is an excuse to get liquored up and be unfaithful. Those situations can go on and on, they're known to. Sooner or later, he might be inclined to say that the fight is enough of an excuse and drop the booze out of it, and then he doesn't need the fight as his excuse anymore, and you see where this all leads you, the slide into the pit. He's a cheater, the crack is already there.

Contriteness can also go on and on. I guess if she's prepared for a life of having him coming home looking like a sad puppy-dog but still smelling of another lady's perfume, she can certainly give it a try.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

lascarx said:


> Here you go:


Really?? I said everyone is subject to temptation - temptation is not a synonym for cheating. To stay with your analogy - if you were an axe murderer you'd have a temptation to kill people with an axe. I have a temptation to drive to fast. Read what I wrote not what you want - and nice job equating cheating to being a murderer - yeah right. 





lascarx said:


> but all cheaters seem to need to do it in every third or fourth sentence, it's always that little soothing bit implying I'm-just-human-and-it-can-happen-to-anyone-even-you. It grates.


This is a matter of opinion not fact, and based on what I've read in my time here on TAM an unfounded opinion. So, like your statement that children make mistakes and adults make decisions I say B.S. And I'm sorry that humanity annoys you. 




lascarx said:


> Which saying is of course in your own self-interest.


 Not really I'm not defending my self I just happen to think it's condescending, sanctimonious, and B.S. As an adult I've made mistakes, I've made decisions, and I've made decisions that were mistakes. Whether you'll admit it or not - as an adult you've made mistakes to. 







lascarx said:


> Cheaters often fall into the position of basically saying that all flaws are equal. The implication is that because everyone is flawed and screws up, it means that cheating should just be treated like any other possible screwup. That seems to be another mantra with which cheaters comfort themselves and advise others.


This is so silly it almost doesn't justify a response but since I'm here. Of course not all mistakes or screw ups are equal and they shouldn't be treated equally. Cheating is a horrible thing to do but it's not the worse failing a person can suffer. And again - I never said that all mistakes are equal. Stop putting words in my mouth.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Stop putting words in my mouth.


If you'd just quit backstepping like a hog before the chopping block, I wouldn't have to.

Now I just read enough of your story to see that your offense was some kind of penpal-dirty stories thing and you never bedded your co-respondent. Some people do say that those things are just as bad as bed affairs, but there's plenty enough who say that only a bed affair is the real test of it. You think you could call a bed affair, just-one-night or longer, just an iddle-widdle mistake? You haven't been there, you can't know. Maybe you need to try one of those out before you throw them onto the pile of everyone-screws-up-sometimes.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

lascarx said:


> If you'd just quit backstepping like a hog before the chopping block, I wouldn't have to.
> 
> Now I just read enough of your story to see that your offense was some kind of penpal-dirty stories thing and you never bedded your co-respondent. Some people do say that those things are just as bad as bed affairs, but there's plenty enough who say that only a bed affair is the real test of it. You think you could call a bed affair, just-one-night or longer, just an iddle-widdle mistake? You haven't been there, you can't know. Maybe you need to try one of those out before you throw them onto the pile of everyone-screws-up-sometimes.


Again with the putting words in my mouth - show me where I've back stepped. I never called either my affair or a full on EA/PA a little mistake. Really man - stop reading what you want to in my post and read what's there. 

And I'll pass on trying on a PA - thanks anyway.


----------



## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Anyone and everyone can screw up. It's not the screwing up that defines who we are, it's the getting back up afterwards that does.


I guess I'm somehow misinterpreting that. Sure sounds like a whitewash to me.

You picked this squawk with me, I didn't pick it with you. My guess is that you have a sore spot someplace that got prodded. You need to remember that I didn't put that sore spot on you, you did that to yourself. And when it gets prodded, it's probably actually doing you more good than harm.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

take a walk guys and cool down


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I'm sure that does sound like whitewash to you. I believe that people can over come their mistakes. That they can take ownership of them, do what they can to repair the damage, pay their prices and be better people than they were. That in no way negates or erases the mistake. You don't believe that so it sounds like whitewash to you, which is fine - we're not going to agree. I do think some affairs are mistakes but certainly not all. There are stories here where were I the betrayed spouse I could reconcile and there are stories where I couldn't, to me each situation is unique and has to be evaluated on it's own. They are all shades of grey to me, to you they are all black and white - your beliefs work for you and are the product of your life experience just like mine. We don't have to agree - that's why they make chocolate AND vanilla. 

Interesting point about a sore spot - I'll have to ponder that for a while.


----------

