# Who do they cheat with?



## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

If you really want see your WS, just take a look at their affair partner. 

It's too convenient to lay the marriage problems or the imperfections of the betrayed spouse as cause for cheating.

JUST TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE AFFAIR PARTNER....and you'll see someone who is pathetic. 

The standards for an affair partner are quite low....just saying.

It's even funny in a dark way. The cheater cheats on you for supposedly being lacking, but the losers they cheat with are seriously lacking.

The guy my wife cheated with owns nothing, he's broke, dumped her when I filed for divorce. He's a liar and a coward. 

Seems as though cheating has a lower standard for the affair partner than the marriage partner.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

I don't think the issue is that the affair partner is a loser or successful, ugly or beautiful....it's that he/she is "new." 

When you're married, the exciting in-love feelings fade into something else. Some people find it hard to resist those feelings you get from somebody new.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Cubby said:


> I don't think the issue is that the affair partner is a loser or successful, ugly or beautiful....it's that he/she is "new."
> 
> When you're married, the exciting in-love feelings fade into something else. Some people find it hard to resist those feelings you get from somebody new.



Thanks for proving my point.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

They always affair down.


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## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Served Cold said:


> If you really want see your WS, just take a look at their affair partner.
> 
> It's too convenient to lay the marriage problems or the imperfections of the betrayed spouse as cause for cheating.
> 
> ...


Another poster made the statement that most waywards affair down. To the AP, the waywards are the best thing they have ever seen so they will do anything to keep him/her around. This feeds the waywards ego that she is a catch and that anyone is lucky to have her.

That's what I found in my situation. I am a pretty successful guy, and my WW cheated with a guy that owns nothing and makes about 1/2 of what I make. Makes no sense...


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

dadof2 said:


> Another poster made the statement that most waywards affair down. To the AP, the waywards are the best thing they have ever seen so they will do anything to keep him/her around. This feeds the waywards ego that she is a catch and that anyone is lucky to have her.
> 
> That's what I found in my situation. I am a pretty successful guy, and my WW cheated with a guy that owns nothing and makes about 1/2 of what I make. Makes no sense...


No offense, but a man is more than what he owns or brings home in pay. Some big wigs at Goldman Sachs made millions by proffering financial instruments they knew would fail; since they own more and make more than an engineer, are they more valuable? Without engineers to make all the tech, those big wigs wouldnt have a job and we'd all be living in caves.

A guy can be valued for his perspective on the world, for his technical capacity to modify the environment (physical or social) in a positive way, for his experiences even if they dont net income, for his candor, for his comfort with his sexuality, etc..

I am not suggesting you are less valuable than your WW's AP, just that it is more complicated than what he makes or how much he owns. I think Cubby has a point.

I also think the brain chemistry of human beings naturally support "serial monogamy". That is to say that innately the brain "neutralizes" the electrochemical insanity we call love over time; it is up to us to put in place strategies that continuously stimulate the release of neurochemical configurations we label "love". Often times the fault lies with both parties growing complacent over time. Even if one remains committed to trying such strategies, it will not work long term unless it goes both ways.

My reason for posting this is not to attack anyone, but merely to encourage introspection/retrospection in regards to what went wrong in the marriage; perhaps the WS was completely the source of any and all problems, or perhaps not enough was being done by both parties to stymie the natural neurochemical equilibrium our brains all aim for over time. Let me be clear: under no circumstance does any act of infidelity belong to the BS- infidelity is a failure of the WS and the WS alone.

Just IMO


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

dadof2 said:


> Another poster made the statement that most waywards affair down. To the AP, the waywards are the best thing they have ever seen so they will do anything to keep him/her around. This feeds the waywards ego that she is a catch and that anyone is lucky to have her.
> 
> That's what I found in my situation. I am a pretty successful guy, and my WW cheated with a guy that owns nothing and makes about 1/2 of what I make. Makes no sense...



In a warped way it does make sense for a cheater to affair down in some way. It's really about make believe, affair partner douche doesn't pay the bills, that's for the betrayed spouse to cover.

Affair partners are about telling the WS what they want to hear and in return they get free sex.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

dadof2 said:


> Another poster made the statement that most waywards affair down. To the AP, the waywards are the best thing they have ever seen so they will do anything to keep him/her around. This feeds the waywards ego that she is a catch and that anyone is lucky to have her.
> 
> That's what I found in my situation. I am a pretty successful guy, and my WW cheated with a guy that owns nothing and makes about 1/2 of what I make. Makes no sense...



Money is only one idea of success. I consider men in the military special operations community considerably more impressive and successful than millionaires sitting in congress.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

My old lady had an affair with a nutless wonder. He seriously was born with out testies.....now that's some weird crap right there!

And the POS had a serious case ADD and would be all over her ,never concintrating on one part of her body, so he even sucked in bed.

I know having sex with this POS was her payment in having a friend that listened. 

There was the convict's, the cop's, plenty of strange....hell I could go on and on.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Isn't "affairing" up an oxymoron? 

Just by the fact that the AP is having an A with a married spouse, willing to destroy one or two marriages, has no morality; to me, "affairing" down is the default.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> If you really want see your WS, just take a look at their affair partner.
> 
> It's too convenient to lay the marriage problems or the imperfections of the betrayed spouse as cause for cheating.
> 
> ...


The woman who I had my RA with had one thing my wife did not have. The ability to listen to my s**t and to be interested in it.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> The woman who I had my RA with had one thing my wife did not have. The ability to listen to my s**t and to be interested in it.


What does RA mean?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> What does RA mean?


Revenge affair


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Revenge affair


Thanks for clarifying.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Cubby said:


> I don't think the issue is that the affair partner is a loser or successful, ugly or beautiful....it's that he/she is "new."
> 
> When you're married, the exciting in-love feelings fade into something else. Some people find it hard to resist those feelings you get from somebody new.


Bingo. Also the AP is dedicating everything they say to your WS about them and how wonderful they are. They don't need to talk about the kids, the mortgage, the groceries, the in-laws etc. So while the BS may still "date" their spouse, it's not 100% of their interactions. While the AP seems to be 100% about the WS. Their focus is 100% about the WS and how wonderful, sexy and smart they are. It's a fantasy built on the focus of a small part of your life.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> The woman who I had my RA with had one thing my wife did not have. The ability to listen to my s**t and to be interested in it.


MM, just curious... what was your wife's response to your RA?


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

WS's xAP was cheating with more than one OM; WS was cheating with her and not respecting boundaries with a female friend. xAP was lying to many about being abused by her xBS; WS was lying to the xAP about many aspects of our marriage. xAP was lying looking for an out from her marriage; WS was lying to get some strange on the side. xAP was using many and WS was trying to use xAP for sex, using me to keep things normal at home. xAP did not finish HS and has a low paying clerical job and this is where they differ....WS is normally very driven at work, has two advanced degrees, and earns a high income. That said, the latter doesn't matter because they were both too busy cheating to actually do their jobs. 

So yes, I can see all the similarities I mentioned, and more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> The woman who I had my RA with had one thing my wife did not have. The ability to listen to my s**t and to be interested in it.



Was your wife's affair partner as good a listener as you revenge affair partner?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

In my WW's case her AP was your average run of the mill Joe. Made an average wage, average house and car. AP gave compliments and acted interested in every word she spoke. They were in an office when they spoke. When WW and I spoke we were at home, so while she told me of her day I was compiling a grocery list, cleaning dishes, cooking dinner or whatever else needed to be done. Often times we spoke while watching TV. Point is I did not give one hundred percent attention to her every word. WW may have been doing the same chores as me when I have her a compliment. For me it came down to communication. 

WW's AP is broken in many ways but it was WW and mine breakdown in communication that was the real problem. I would like to think I am far better than WW's AP and maybe I am, but for six months he was apparently better, at least in my opinion. This is because she gave herself to him, allowed him to invade the marriage. It's not how much money, what title you've earned at work, it's how broken is the WS. My WW thought our marriage was over, thus began an affair. If WW had communicated that to me, she would have known the marriage wasn't over. We could have both worked on our problems. But something inside was broken and she had an affair. This really sucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drifting on said:


> In my WW's case her AP was your average run of the mill Joe. Made an average wage, average house and car. AP gave compliments and acted interested in every word she spoke. They were in an office when they spoke. When WW and I spoke we were at home, so while she told me of her day I was compiling a grocery list, cleaning dishes, cooking dinner or whatever else needed to be done. Often times we spoke while watching TV. Point is I did not give one hundred percent attention to her every word. WW may have been doing the same chores as me when I have her a compliment. For me it came down to communication.
> 
> WW's AP is broken in many ways but it was WW and mine breakdown in communication that was the real problem. I would like to think I am far better than WW's AP and maybe I am, but for six months he was apparently better, at least in my opinion. This is because she gave herself to him, allowed him to invade the marriage. It's not how much money, what title you've earned at work, it's how broken is the WS. My WW thought our marriage was over, thus began an affair. If WW had communicated that to me, she would have known the marriage wasn't over. We could have both worked on our problems. But something inside was broken and she had an affair. This really sucks.


No offense, DO, but it sounds to me like your wife pretty much force-fed you an entire 55-gallon drum of concentrated Kool-Aid.

_And you *loved* it._


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## Butterfly1014 (Jul 24, 2014)

I so needed this today. My WAWH, found out today that I was filing for custody of our son and a D. It all started when he called this morning and asked what "my" son was doing, mind you our son is 4. He hasn't spent any one on one time w him at all this month and only seen him 4 times last month after he left. Anyways he has the nerve to ask me to keep our auto insurance together to save money! He has already gotten 2 tickets since he left and I have already taken steps to separate them. 
As for the affair, everyone on here was right he was. With his EX baby momma that was also M. He definitely affaired down, her home is a dilapidated trailer that has to be over 30 yrsold, her house is filthy, and they never got along when they were together, constant infidelity on both sides. So I am hurt right now, but I know that in the end I will be the one that can walk away with my head held high, knowing that I never sunk to their level.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> If you really want see your WS, just take a look at their affair partner.
> 
> It's too convenient to lay the marriage problems or the imperfections of the betrayed spouse as cause for cheating.
> 
> ...


True story.... My wife's ex remarried and his new wife ended up having sex with a homeless guy they had living in their basement and even knocked up by him. He was summarily tossed from the house, died a few months later of a drug overdose and my wife's ex divorced his wife over it all.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Here's the thing. Your spouse chose both of you based on some attraction.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing. Your spouse chose both of you based on some attraction.



Finding someone to cheat with you is a compromise, call that attraction or whatever,,,


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Someone on here, I wish I could remember his name to give him credit, said that in many cases, the WW is looking for only one or very few things in an AP. ergo, if the WW is just looking for attention, then the need for the AP to be physically attractive or even financially solvent is just unimportant.

That makes so much sense to me now. When I try to make sense of my (second / current) husband's EA, well a light bulb went off. She liked indie bands like he did and with him at least, she had that *****y alpha female behavior going on. I even saw text messages to my husband that began with "a$$hole" as if that were his name.

I noticed also in my first marriage that my exH favored women with that *****y / crazy kind of demeanour. Maybe that's something that some men like but know that it doesn't work in the long run.

I just had to point out to my future husband that if he wanted me to prioritise him, he was going to have offer that in return. I realise these things are easier when you're not married and there no children involved.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

It seems that APs are so caught up in sexually counseling other people's husbands or wives, that they don't have enough time, energy and ambition to further themselves otherwise. My X2B's AP is a spiteful, clingy, vindictive emotional basketcase. He needed 150% attention. 

She told him he betrayed HER...That's right...those words did come from her mouth. She told me she knew him for years and years although she met him 8 years after we were married (so much for even a "F" in Math). She was telling him she doesn't know why she can't find a good man (I guess cause all the good ones are married). I asked if he couldn't have bought her a mirror in the EA stages so she could see her low self-esteem bursting through the seams of her clothes. 

She was even planning a wedding with a man whose wife called her and asked her who the hecks she was...But you know, she is high up there on his pedestal...Duh...So yes, :iagree: they are usually a reflection of the WS.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

Sometimes I think its easier for people to cheat than it is to try to do anything with their spouse to rekindle their relationship.

Of course no matter what you do your still the same person so what good would it do if they are wanting someone else.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Gus

You couldn't be any more wrong. WW's affair killed me on the inside. Why? Because she is capable and I never thought she could. I know she was broken, perhaps still is, but she has one chance to prove it to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> MM, just curious... what was your wife's response to your RA?


She was angry, naturally.

It took her a while to get over it, but we talked. A lot. Which we had failed to do after her affair.

Funny thing my affair actually hurt me more than my wife's affair had hurt me.

I ended up on Seroxat for a while after my affair.

And my wife decided to use her counselling skills on me. (PhD in Psychology.)

Yeah, bit messed up but she did not want me getting counselling with someone else as they all knew her through her job or socially.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

dadof2 said:


> I am a pretty successful guy, and my WW cheated with a guy that owns nothing and makes about 1/2 of what I make. Makes no sense...


Actually, it makes PERFECT sense because...

...her cheating had *NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU*. 

It wouldn't have mattered if you were the best looking guy in the world...she still would have cheated.

It wouldn't have mattered if you made BILLIONS of dollars, she still would have cheated. 

It wouldn't have mattered if you could cook like Chef Ramsey, did laundry like George Jefferson, cleaned like Merry Maids, was as generous as Mother Theresa, and was the best parent in the world to your kids, _she still would have cheated_. 

It wouldn't have mattered if you had a perfectly chiseled body or were the best lover in the world, and could make her have 16 orgasms just by looking at her, SHE STILL WOULD HAVE CHEATED. 

Why? 

Because her cheating had nothing to do with how '_perfect_' YOU are, and everything to do with how _flawed_ SHE is. It had nothing to do with what YOU possess--whether material or character--and everything to do with what the cheater _LACKS_ (gratitude, empathy, compassion, insight into their own thinking, self-control, patience, etc.)

Cheating has NOTHING to do with the betrayed. The cheater ALWAYS had other options _besides_ cheating, and chose to exercise NONE OF THEM. 

Basically, we could have been God Himself and the cheater STILL WOULD HAVE CHEATED. 

Rant over.

Vega


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

badmemory said:


> Isn't "affairing" up an oxymoron?
> 
> Just by the fact that the AP is having an A with a married spouse, willing to destroy one or two marriages, has no morality; to me, "affairing" down is the default.


That's always been my stance on it.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

I wish my ww would have affaired down, might have been easier for me to take. No, my ww's affair partner was 15 years younger than my WW, is in better shape than me, drove a better car, lives in a better house, etc. etc. Other than being a selfish, cheating douche nozzle, he's probably a pretty good guy. I might even feel a little guilty if I ever get the chance to kick his ass. No probably not, but still, AP's can come in all shapes and sizes.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

I'd only add that based on an info available to me "they" often seek/fall for novelty and excitement so don't be surprised if ap looks totally opposite. Eg if you have decent income the ap is poor or unemployed, if you are mentally strong and composed the ap will need a shoulder to cry on, etc etc. Furthermore gives great segway into justification (you never had time for me, you were not there emotionally,...)


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## jmiller2020 (Sep 3, 2013)

Vega said:


> Actually, it makes PERFECT sense because...
> 
> ...her cheating had *NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU*.
> 
> ...


I love your post Vega and I just want to add that I also agree with the post that discussed the brain chemicals and how he (I think male) explained it is the responsibility of both partners to keep them flowing. So as much as I enjoyed your post I have to slightly disagree in that I feel it does have something to do with the betrayed. Sure the WS does have more options but the truth of the matter is he or she became vulnerable for a reason, susceptible for a reason and any BS that has come to terms with what else went wrong in the marriage prior to the affair would agree and they make sure it changes the next time around. 

Now in no way do I think cheating is okay or right but I also don't want the BS to feel they contributed nothing to the state of their marriage. If it has nothing to do with the BS than the BS feels they have no control if someone cheats on them or not (in the future). That is a very unsettling feeling. 

The only way I would be able to move on from having been cheating on would be to own what I didn't do right and make sure I did things better the next time around. Having that control and knowledge of my own behavior would decrease my anxiety that my next parter would betray me. I hope this makes sense. (I am not trying to offend the betrayed in anyway).

I would love to hear the opinions of BSs. In my experience knowing what was wrong in the marriage and making sure they keep a better eye on the marital temp the second time around helps them keep their sanity and allow themselves to be vulnerable enough to fall in love again.


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## jmiller2020 (Sep 3, 2013)

Served Cold said:


> In a warped way it does make sense for a cheater to affair down in some way. It's really about make believe, affair partner douche doesn't pay the bills, that's for the betrayed spouse to cover.
> 
> Affair partners are about telling the WS what they want to hear and in return they get free sex.


And NO responsibility or accountability.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

As a betrayed spouse who has a cache of emails and texts that is a reminder of how low a WS can go.

for example....

other man douche:
" your so awesome.... being with you is awesome."

First off....this douche lacks grammar skills ...it's YOU'RE not YOUR so awesome.

Not to confuse Harvard with Harvest...the douche or douchettes of this world are taking care of "biness".


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Vega said:


> Actually, it makes PERFECT sense because...
> 
> ...her cheating had *NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU*.
> 
> ...



Love it, Vega.
:smthumbup:


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

People cheat because something has ended for them in their marriage (for many reasons). In ideal world, they shuold divorce first. In less than ideal world, there is mortgage, car payments, college funds, children. then at one point you realize that there is no intimacy between you and your spoouse, you just live your lives together, but your kids still need you and since you are not killing each other on everyday basis, it is better for them to have one home. You look into mirror, then on your birth certificate, and become sad and bitter person, convinced that your life is pretty much over, that decisions you've made as that straight from college twenty something now bite you the ass. Then someone shows up in your life, who doesn't yell at you, who respects you, makes you feel much more calm and relaxed on everyday basis, and voila!


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> People cheat because something has ended for them in their marriage (for many reasons). In ideal world, they shuold divorce first. In less than ideal world, there is mortgage, car payments, college funds, children. then at one point you realize that there is no intimacy between you and your spoouse, you just live your lives together, but your kids still need you and since you are not killing each other on everyday basis, it is better for them to have one home. You look into mirror, then on your birth certificate, and become sad and bitter person, convinced that your life is pretty much over, that decisions you've made as that straight from college twenty something now bite you the ass. Then someone shows up in your life, who doesn't yell at you, who respects you, makes you feel much more calm and relaxed on everyday basis, and voila!



Seems as though you couldn't leave until someone else came along. Ever heard of divorce....voila....


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Served Cold said:


> Seems as though you couldn't leave until someone else came along. Ever heard of divorce....voila....


did you read the whole piece??


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> If you really want see your WS, just take a look at their affair partner.


It's odd but it's not. At first it doesn't make sense but once you understand the thinking that makes people cheat then it makes a lot of sense.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

It kinda feels weird to ask, was my X2B also a reflection of me? Until he changed ponds? Scccaaarrryyyy! I guess the better explanation is that he was always searching for his reflection in a cesspool elsewhere until he found it...Goes back to the original post...Yep.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*More often than not, they'll always trade down~ really just to see exactly how much they can hurt you! If you don't believe me, then just take time to ask my rich, skanky XW! She'll tell you!*


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

jmiller2020 said:


> I love your post Vega and I just want to add that I also agree with the post that discussed the brain chemicals and how he (I think male) explained it is the responsibility of both partners to keep them flowing. So as much as I enjoyed your post I have to slightly disagree in that I feel it does have something to do with the betrayed. Sure the WS does have more options but the truth of the matter is he or she became vulnerable for a reason, susceptible for a reason and any BS that has come to terms with what else went wrong in the marriage prior to the affair would agree and they make sure it changes the next time around.
> 
> Now in no way do I think cheating is okay or right but I also don't want the BS to feel they contributed nothing to the state of their marriage. If it has nothing to do with the BS than the BS feels they have no control if someone cheats on them or not (in the future). That is a very unsettling feeling.
> 
> ...


J 
We can all Monday morning quarterback about things in the marriage that may be we should have done different or whatever the case. I'm not going to beat myself up for not being perfect. My WW could do a lot of things different and that doesn't even include having an A. That's a whole seperate set of things wrong.

I don't know if I could do anything different that would have kept my WW from having an A. She is very selfish, self-centered and immature. She obviously has little to no respect for our marriage or for me. Or for that matter herself. Why else would any woman buy all the [email protected]#t from some POSOM, especially one that is married? Does she not have any respect for POSOM's wife and kids? Nope all she and POSOM were concerned with was their little sneaky a** A.

My problem was I married someone that is very immature and always wants things her "way" and if you hinder that in any way then her passive/aggressive behavior kicks in and you get treated like crap. She would use anything and everything to justify her behavior. She would find something small to accuse me of not "doing my part". Or if I tried to do a lot, well then I'm trying to show her up. I've been accused of mistreating her family, her friends, our friends and even my own family. When I ask for specifics and then I go to them to ask if I did mistreat them they would all look at me with puzzled looks on their faces and ask where I got that idea from and no I haven't done anything to mistreat them. This all goes to her "justifying" hating me and why she should have someone "better".

I'm not a perfect man nor am I a perfect husband. Apologize when you're wrong and try to do better. What else can I do? That's way more than anything WW has done. Sorry is just not in her vocabulary.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Who do they cheat with?

OM#1: 44, divorced, one kid, ex-army, construction-worker and liar (_had a part-time role as a 'retained Firefighter' which he used as a chat-up line_)
Had a bit of a reputation for f*cking married women due to his above-average-sized c0ck. 

Went on for 9 months before she had her head turned yet again for...

OM#2: 47, single, no kids, solvent (so possible 'good catch')...but wait: a bit of a 'Player' (in his own head) and all-round _ego-driven jerk_.
Was a 'friend' of mine, who actually got me to confide in him about situation with my wife and OM#1 above so he could make _his _own move on my wife.
Target acquired after just 5 days and he dumped her after 2 months... :scratchhead:


So, generally, devious and sneaky all-round...


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

davecarter said:


> Who do they cheat with?
> 
> OM#1: 44, divorced, one kid, ex-army, construction-worker and liar (_had a part-time role as a 'retained Firefighter' which he used as a chat-up line_)
> Had a bit of a reputation for f*cking married women due to his above-average-sized c0ck.
> ...


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

davecarter said:


> Who do they cheat with?
> 
> OM#1: 44, divorced, one kid, ex-army, construction-worker and liar (_had a part-time role as a 'retained Firefighter' which he used as a chat-up line_)
> Had a bit of a reputation for f*cking married women due to his above-average-sized c0ck.
> ...


Jesus C. That had to sting bro- sorry to hear it.

Really, people like OM #2 make me fear for the future of the human race sometimes. Has our society's pursuit of consumerism really corrupted people's moral character THAT much? Or is the guy just literally a sociopath?


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

HarryDoyle said:


> I wish my ww would have affaired down, might have been easier for me to take. No, my ww's affair partner was 15 years younger than my WW, is in better shape than me, drove a better car, lives in a better house, etc. etc. Other than being a selfish, cheating douche nozzle, he's probably a pretty good guy. I might even feel a little guilty if I ever get the chance to kick his ass. No probably not, but still, AP's can come in all shapes and sizes.


I can sorta relate to this. My WS's AP was younger than me by a ways and not unattractive at all. Don't know if it's strange or not, seemed so to me at the time, but she looks quite a bit like me. We're both thin but she's skinny/probably doesn't eat much type of skinny as opposed to me being in shape, more muscular. I work out, run, ski, etc. Her personal life is a hot mess but mine isn't....but still, it's always bugged me about her having youth on her side. I'm not unattractive, don't look my age, and keep myself in shape but it seems to some, me being in my 40's....I'm over the hill, regardless. 

Of course, when I found out about her and her age....that old saying came to mind, "when you turn 40 I'm gonna trade you in for two 20's." 

Nothing said "younger is better" more than my WS pursuing an affair with the younger xAP. Sure didn't do much for my ego. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

loyallad said:


> J
> We can all Monday morning quarterback about things in the marriage that may be we should have done different or whatever the case. I'm not going to beat myself up for not being perfect. My WW could do a lot of things different and that doesn't even include having an A. That's a whole seperate set of things wrong.
> 
> I don't know if I could do anything different that would have kept my WW from having an A. She is very selfish, self-centered and immature. She obviously has little to no respect for our marriage or for me. Or for that matter herself. Why else would any woman buy all the [email protected]#t from some POSOM, especially one that is married? Does she not have any respect for POSOM's wife and kids? Nope all she and POSOM were concerned with was their little sneaky a** A.
> ...


I could have written almost the same thing LL. I wasn't perfect either but I did my part plus some. My wife was similar to yours in that she was naive, immature, and entitled. She thought she deserved anything and everything and was better than normal people. Under the surface though, she was insecure and needed external validation and couldn't handle it.

I evaluated my part and have tried to do better. WW must not have done that. It's why I've been happily married to good woman for two decades and my long time EX is currently sporting a new boyfriend while her hubby sets at home wishing she'd come back. But he deserves it since he left his wife for her when he was her new boyfriend.  I just don't understand what these people expect to happen when they do this stuff?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I was an OM.

Was I a POS? I don't know. I took what was being offered to me and it was a boost to my ego. Did she affair down? I don't know.. I think I was just very different. Exotic and full of new possibilities. He seemed like a solid good guy who deserved much better. 

Did she trade down when she cheated on me? In some ways yes, in some ways no. I think he is a real POSOM/slow player.. He's had multiple affairs. Birds of a feather...


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Don't think WS do a background check on the AP before they hook up not that it would do any good.

Both sides only get snippets of each other unlike the BS who gets the good, the bad and the ugly the AP/WS only share the good stuff and even then it's pretty easy to put a shine on a pig (so to speak)

After all isn't that what makes an AP so appealing all the good with none of the reality of life.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

TryingToRecover said:


> I can sorta relate to this. My WS's AP was younger than me by a ways and not unattractive at all. Don't know if it's strange or not, seemed so to me at the time, but she looks quite a bit like me. We're both thin but she's skinny/probably doesn't eat much type of skinny as opposed to me being in shape, more muscular. I work out, run, ski, etc. Her personal life is a hot mess but mine isn't....but still, it's always bugged me about her having youth on her side. I'm not unattractive, don't look my age, and keep myself in shape but it seems to some, me being in my 40's....I'm over the hill, regardless.
> 
> Of course, when I found out about her and her age....that old saying came to mind, "when you turn 40 I'm gonna trade you in for two 20's."
> 
> ...


Don't feel too bad.

If younger women were really all that, then they would not waste their time with married men. A married man has a handicap for a woman looking for marriage herself.

With my husband's ex EA, she was annoyed that the only men she could get to date her were men 10 years older than she. Self- described as 50 pounds overweight, that may have had something to do with it. Kind of sounds like older men are plan b to her.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

staystrong said:


> I was an OM.
> 
> Was I a POS? I don't know. I took what was being offered to me and it was a boost to my ego. Did she affair down? I don't know.. I think I was just very different. Exotic and full of new possibilities. He seemed like a solid good guy who deserved much better.
> 
> Did she trade down when she cheated on me? In some ways yes, in some ways no. I think he is a real POSOM/slow player.. He's had multiple affairs. Birds of a feather...


Staystrong I refer to my WW's OM as a POS for a couple of reasons. One if you know a woman is married even if she says her marriage is awful don't and I mean don't take this as an opportunity to worm your way into her life and try to get in her pants. Maybe that made him feel special that he got some stray off another man's wife. If it did well speaks volumes of his morals and the little value he has of himself. Secondly he has a wife and kids of his own. Put effort into those people, not someone elses wife. Now I know it takes two to have an A and yes I don't think too much of my WW either. Just the way I look at things, especially my own situation.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I've never tried it because I'm not interested in playing that role but when you think about it if you're looking for some thrills and/or no strings attached sex a married woman is the perfect target. Find one that is feeling unappreciated, start telling her how wonderful she is, how horrible her husband treats her and how if she were yours you would treat her like a goddess.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Honestly… Something I recognized early on. It is simply better for me to consider the OM’s losers. So it’s not going to help me at all thinking about them from a ‘good catch’ standpoint. 

So the inverse is true as well. My WW needed them to be a ‘good catch’ so it’s hardly going to assist her perception of herself thinking about them being losers she was tossing our marriage away for.

The trick is really getting your wayward to see them and seek out reasons they are losers and seeking out perceptions that you are the catch. If they continue to see that AP as a catch… run. You’ll always be competing with a fantasy. If they seek out reasons you are a loser… run. You’ll always be fighting an uphill battle of perceptions you can’t control. 

People generally see in others what they are looking for.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I was an OM.
> 
> Was I a POS? I don't know. I took what was being offered to me and it was a boost to my ego. Did she affair down? I don't know.. I think I was just very different. Exotic and full of new possibilities. He seemed like a solid good guy who deserved much better.
> 
> Did she trade down when she cheated on me? In some ways yes, in some ways no. I think he is a real POSOM/slow player.. He's had multiple affairs. Birds of a feather...


POS is it's own thing. Sometimes a OM is a POS and sometimes not. Being an OM or OW is playing with fire and risky though. Moving to a long term relationship with an AP I think is playing with fire while holding gasoline. The odds are just tiny that it will work out.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

The string of guys my ex crawled into the sack with had one thing in common with me. They all eventually dumped her when they got to really know her.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

There are some bad husbands out there and wives who don't know what to do about their situation. They lean on someone else and are 'helped' to get out. I'm talking about instances of abuse, etc. 

Clearly the worst AP's are the ones who view it as a conquest. Those guys deserve to have to be hung on a hook by their balls. They are predators. 

I had a run-in with a married woman was one time when she invited me to dinner at her place. She was a foreigner and I was a traveler. Her husband was back in her homeland. We had dinner and good conversation. I did not initiate anything. At the end, she said 'You know, I was really tempted by you but I realize I really love my husband and just needed some attention." I told her I was honestly happy to hear that, and I think we did the right thing. I think she was a good woman, just lonely, and long distance can be hard. If I'd been a real douche, I suppose I could have steered things towards more than dinner, by pouring more wine or whatever. A night of pleasure, and perhaps years of regret for her. 

That was all my pre-marriage pre-kids era and these were young couples. My understanding of marriage changed once I got married. 

If you're a good guy and a good husband and dad, and you love your wife, it's sometimes not enough. Unfortunately.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Don't feel too bad.
> 
> If younger women were really all that, then they would not waste their time with married men. A married man has a handicap for a woman looking for marriage herself.
> 
> With my husband's ex EA, she was annoyed that the only men she could get to date her were men 10 years older than she. Self- described as 50 pounds overweight, that may have had something to do with it. Kind of sounds like older men are plan b to her.


Yah, I don't let it bother me too much anymore but at the time it was disconcerting. I'm much better off not having the same life problems xAP has.

At the time it bugged me because on the VAR recording I heard my WS explain to her the reason why she should believe he was interested in more than "just sex" with her. Given their age difference she was accurately assuming all he wanted was sex while she was trying to make sure she had a soft place to land (she was pursuing an exit affair from her BS and she wanted to get pregnant). He explained that younger women were "less complicated" and "more fun," along with more interested in keeping their SO's/husbands happy (of course!) IDK where he came up with drivel but most of the time I get a good laugh when I think about it. I once asked him where he came up with that load of crap....he just looked embarrassed. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Like so many things it comes back to the Golden Rule..do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. 

If my partner were to approach a guy claiming she was misunderstood and feeling loney I would prefer he turn her down and send her back to me to sort things out one way or another before getting involved. So I feel it's only right that if I were in the situation a married woman were making herself available to me I would do her husband the courtesy of sending her back home to deal with him.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Cheating may be motivated by many things, but often the underlying and unconscious attraction is for superior genes. That's not to say the AP isn't a loser in social terms!


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

jmiller2020 said:


> Now in no way do I think cheating is okay or right but I also don't want the BS to feel they contributed nothing to the state of their marriage. *If it has nothing to do with the BS than the BS feels they have no control if someone cheats on them or not (in the future). That is a very unsettling feeling. *
> 
> 
> Yes it is unsettling but that's because it true they may cheat again and they may not you can never know deluding oneself in believing you have control is not healthy
> ...


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Cheating may be motivated by many things, but often the underlying and unconscious attraction is for superior genes. That's not to say the AP isn't a loser in social terms!


I don't believe that's true. I think most often the WS feels they're missing something in their life and looks outside to fill that hole (figuratively speaking). Often times it's that they're missing something from within it's just they don't see it at the time. It's easier on the psyche to blame the spouse for their unhappiness.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

OptimisticPessimist said:


> Jesus C. That had to sting bro- sorry to hear it.
> 
> Really, people like OM #2 make me fear for the future of the human race sometimes. Has our society's pursuit of consumerism really corrupted people's moral character THAT much? Or is the guy just literally a sociopath?


Nah, I'm cool with it now.

The ironic thing is, given the state of our marriage, during the period when my wife was seeing OM#1, I did start to think _"maybe he is better for her, relationship-wise"_
(FWIW, our marriage was like....the best, violent, funniest episode of 'Tom & Jerry' you can remember...but it's not good for marriage or kids)

So, then after finally coming to terms with the fact we were not good for each other as opposed for OM#1 taking her off me....OM#2 comes barging in like the Tasmanian Devil, all confidence, swaggering wannabee-Alpha, 'arent-I-the-sh!t' and my wife totally fell for that.

I have some email-correspondence between them, and from what it says, I am not surprised my ex-wife wants nothing to do with OM#2 ever again and has blocked his cell-phone #
Choice-cut from his correspondence to her: _"Unlucky for you, chick. Pushing-40, financially broke, emotionally-needy, two kids, looks fading, divorce looming...gave you a 'Get Out Of Jail' free-card and you even f*cuked that up!"_

But, yeah, he's like, 'Sociopath 101'...


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Cheating may be motivated by many things, but often the underlying and unconscious attraction is for superior genes. That's not to say the AP isn't a loser in social terms!


Superior genes? What then explains some of the loser AP's out there? I'm going by some of the descriptions provided about AP's here, described by both BS's and WS's. Some of them are described as losers in terms of social aspects but many of these "loser traits," as described, can only be inherited via DNA. Somehow I fail to see the correlation between some AP's and their more endearing traits, and superior genes. Is there a study out there which confirms your statement and if so, where is it located?

Or should this just be lumped in with all men having the innate desire and need, beyond the limits of self-control even, to spread their seed as far as wide as possible? If so, I'll just return to my regularly scheduled programming.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I don't believe that's true. I think most often the WS feels they're missing something in their life and looks outside to fill that hole (figuratively speaking). Often times it's that they're missing something from within it's just they don't see it at the time. It's easier on the psyche to blame the spouse for their unhappiness.


:iagree:

Married where do you come up with it's about superior genes? WTF! I'm sorry but I'm throwing the bullcrap flag on that. How would you know if the OP isn't a carrier for some type of disease? You may be attracted to certain traits of the OP but that's not because of superior genes.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Cheating may be motivated by many things, but often the underlying and unconscious attraction is for superior genes. That's not to say the AP isn't a loser in social terms!



That's an oxymoron. Sorry...but this made me laugh.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Who do they cheat with?*



loyallad said:


> :iagree:
> 
> How would you know if the OP isn't a carrier for some type of disease.?


....agreed!! ....its highly probable they are infected with Acute D-bag-itis.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Luckily, there are gene pools and then there are gene cesspools.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

It's a tough pill to swallow, but the person someone cheats with is the person they deserve. I don't mean this as a cheap shot but it's the reality. 

A relationship built on love has a 50/50 chance. That's reality. 

I don't know the stats on affair relationships lasting , but my intuition see's it as facing an even lower than the traditional 50/50 chance of surviving.

I couldn't imagine starting off a committed relationship with someone who I cheated with. I'd know I and she would know that we're both capable of lying and deceit.

To clarify why I started this thread, I should have been clearer on my meaning of it. 

The person they cheat with is a reflection of where someone is in their own crises. 

There are many people who will cheat with you....many people who will sleep with you....but a precious few will really love you.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Served Cold said:


> Seems as though cheating has a lower standard for the affair partner than the marriage partner.


I'm 5+ years out from DD with my fww. Years of IC, MC, reliving the events of the past...

All this introspection and what do I know? It will never make sense. It will never be rational. If anything I have learned... it really has nothing to do with you.

I think the MILITARY has a phrase that describes it in the only way that makes any sense... *"A Class A Triple Cluster F--K".*
Carry On.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: Re: Who do they cheat with?*



RWB said:


> I'm 5+ years out from DD with my fww. Years of IC, MC, reliving the events of the past...
> 
> All this introspection and what do I know? It will never make sense. It will never be rational. If anything I have learned... it really has nothing to do with you.
> 
> ...


Or Charlie foxtrot or FUBAR... Yep.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

Served Cold said:


> A relationship built on love has a 50/50 chance. That's reality.
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine starting off a committed relationship with someone who I cheated with. I'd know I and she would know that we're both capable of lying and deceit.
> ...


Maybe I'm unrealistic or completely wrong but a marriage should be built on a special love. A love that goes beyond the romantic love. A love that your willing to accept them with their imperfections and they accept yours and in doing so you give your heart to them because of that love. You trust them to protect your heart and when they cheat that trust is betrayed and the heart is deeply hurt.

I think WS either don't care or they don't share that same love that you have for them. I think that's why there are so many hurt and broken people on here. There's a feeling of being violated. Something special was taken from you. The bad part of it is one of the people responsible for taking that away from you is the one person that made a vow to not do that. That really cheapens your marriage and often causes the BS to doubt his own worth.

I agree with you Served. Why would you think a relationship started in an A will ever be one of value? I know of two seperate people that married their AP. One is now divorced (marriage lasted less than 3 years) and the other though still married to her AP rarely sees him (they live in seperate states) and dreads it when she does. :scratchhead:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> Was your wife's affair partner as good a listener as you revenge affair partner?


I have no idea.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

TryingToRecover said:


> Yah, I don't let it bother me too much anymore but at the time it was disconcerting. I'm much better off not having the same life problems xAP has.
> 
> At the time it bugged me because on the VAR recording I heard my WS explain to her the reason why she should believe he was interested in more than "just sex" with her. Given their age difference she was accurately assuming all he wanted was sex while she was trying to make sure she had a soft place to land (she was pursuing an exit affair from her BS and she wanted to get pregnant). *He explained that younger women were "less complicated" and "more fun," along with more interested in keeping their SO's/husbands happy (of course!) *IDK where he came up with drivel but most of the time I get a good laugh when I think about it. I once asked him where he came up with that load of crap....he just looked embarrassed. Lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your husband's a hoot, thinking that women who want to get pregnant by random men and who just happen to be young(er than he is) are uncomplicated.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Served Cold said:


> It's a tough pill to swallow, but the person someone cheats with is the person they deserve. I don't mean this as a cheap shot but it's the reality.
> 
> A relationship built on love has a 50/50 chance. That's reality.
> 
> ...


This topic has ban bait written all over it. Not a threat, more of a premonition.

Waywards tend to affair down if one of the items causing them strife is their self-esteem, or sense of control in their life or marriage. By affairing down, they choose a partner that will idolize them; someone that will feel lucky to have them. Someone that builds them up. Someone they can manage.

It's very, very common.

My ex did it.

As for the last point above. The statistics I always hear quoted are that about 3 percent of affairs transition to 'traditional relationships'.

I understand that lots of folks here hurt and, it's easy to say terrible things about those who are unfaithful. 

But ... there is also a very seldom discussed fact that it takes someone to have completely resolved their feelings about their former relationship and the betrayal.

The betrayal sucks. But ... sometimes the 'partnership' between those in the affair becomes a better relationship than the one that was abandoned.

I have 4 sets of long term very dear friends all in happy, loving marriages, all well north of 1 decade, some at 2 decades. They started as affairs. 

None of them are thrilled at how their relationships started. All of them can't imagine being with anyone else.


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## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

I haven't read this whole thread, but can say that my husband did "Affair down". OW is a mess. Alcoholic, lost custody of child-doesn't even live in the same state anymore, no car, no phone, didn't graduate from high school, etc. She is cute. I'll give her that, but she is also very young. He has told me a few times lately that I am perfect. I wonder if that is why he chose someone so "imperfect"? Someone who he felt was more of a mess than he is? He was broken...anyways, obviously I am not perfect. But I am not a broken person either. Thankfully he has realized that he was and is working hard to recover.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Deejo said:


> This topic has ban bait written all over it. Not a threat, more of a premonition.


Huh, I wouldn't have pegged this as a hot topic for bannings but that shows how much I know. I trust you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Deejo said:


> This topic has ban bait written all over it. Not a threat, more of a premonition.
> 
> Waywards tend to affair down if one of the items causing them strife is their self-esteem, or sense of control in their life or marriage. By affairing down, they choose a partner that will idolize them; someone that will feel lucky to have them. Someone that builds them up. Someone they can manage.
> 
> ...


*But it certainly might get a tad embarrassing if their kids or grandkids were to ever get around to inquiring as to how they came to meet!*


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Deejo said:


> This topic has ban bait written all over it. Not a threat, more of a premonition.
> 
> Waywards tend to affair down if one of the items causing them strife is their self-esteem, or sense of control in their life or marriage. By affairing down, they choose a partner that will idolize them; someone that will feel lucky to have them. Someone that builds them up. Someone they can manage.
> 
> It's very, very common.


But what aspects of an affair partner do they chose/look for when 'affairing-down'?
(first thing I thought when I saw who my ex-wife was seeing was _"he's punching above his weight with my wife_"

But then, as a man, I was looking at her and his respective physical appearances.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Your husband's a hoot, thinking that women who want to get pregnant by random men and who just happen to be young(er than he is) are uncomplicated.


:rofl:

Believe me, the irony wasn't lost on me!! Nor was it on him.....now .


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Deejo said:


> This topic has ban bait written all over it. Not a threat, more of a premonition.
> 
> Waywards tend to affair down if one of the items causing them strife is their self-esteem, or sense of control in their life or marriage. By affairing down, they choose a partner that will idolize them; someone that will feel lucky to have them. Someone that builds them up. Someone they can manage.
> 
> ...



I had no idea that only 3% of affairs end up as "traditional relationships". I had guessed it would be higher. 

I appreciate your contribution and insight from the perspective of once having been a betrayed spouse.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: Who do they cheat with?*



arbitrator said:


> *But it certainly might get a tad embarrassing if their kids or grandkids were to ever get around to inquiring as to how they came to meet!*


Perspective is everything. Not a question or circumstance that is ever going to come up. Certainly not with kids. For all of the speculation we do here, geared towards penance or come-uppence, I don't see any up side whatsoever in telling children. Adult children that have questions is another story. I and my siblings know about my mother's infidelity ... over 30 years ago. It doesn't cross anyone's radar today.

In my friends case there are 4 children ... all which he had with his second wife. He has a BETTER marriage, regardless of how it began.

In the case of one of my other friends, he owned the affair. And in his case he affaired up.

I recognize that the preponderance of people that find their way here are relatively newly betrayed, angry and bitter. Justifiably so.

But 5 to 10 years down the line, justifiably bitter and angry doesn't cut it.

Hopefully at that point it becomes possible to recognize that the relationship wasn't what you once thought it was regardless of who may be responsible, or you may be able to acknowledge that your ex-partner actually did you a favor.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: Who do they cheat with?*



davecarter said:


> But what aspects of an affair partner do they chose/look for when 'affairing-down'?
> (first thing I thought when I saw who my ex-wife was seeing was _"he's punching above his weight with my wife_"
> 
> But then, as a man, I was looking at her and his respective physical appearances.


In my ex ' s case it was availability, and esteem building.

And to be clear, as I've stated many times and in light of my previous post, my ex and I get along very well. 'Infidelity' is not something that shows up on the radar of our interactions.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Not that I'm a fan of his but Dr.Phil once said, "If they're prepared to cheat with you...what makes you think they're not prepared to cheat on you?" I get the sense most people who cheat somehow think they're affair relationship is 'different' and somehow transcends common sense but I believe that's just the 'fog' people refer to around here. 

Undoubtedly there are affairs that do turn into LT relationships. My ex's is one of them. As much as we all (myself included) want to believe in the Karma bus I don't think it really exists. 

For me the fly in the ointment when it comes to considering an affair is that there would always be one person who would know who's judgement I fear more than anyone else's....me.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Undoubtedly there are affairs that do turn into LT relationships. My ex's is one of them. As much as we all (myself included) want to believe in the Karma bus I don't think it really exists.


Funny. I am pretty sure the alleged fog that compells mates to toss away their families and create elaborate ruses that afford them time to meet for motel and backseat rendezvous is fiction.

Karma in its most literal sense, I think, is pretty much real: there are consequences for one's actions. I just don't think it's what you think it it is  It's not about you playing the role some ancient Hebrew diety and metering out justice as you see it.

I am pretty sure there are consequences for behavior. Good, bad, and otherwise just different.

Broken families, ended marriages, etc: that stuff is real. That is part of Karma.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

TimeHeals said:


> Funny. I am pretty sure the alleged fog that compells mates to toss away their families and create elaborate ruses that afford them time to meet for motel and backseat rendezvous is fiction.
> 
> Karma in its most literal sense, I think, is pretty much real: there are consequences for one's actions. I just don't think it's what you think it it is  It's not about you playing the role some ancient Hebrew diety and metering out justice as you see it.
> 
> ...


I definately agree there are consequences to your actions. As a general rule people who make bad choices financially, in their marriages, healthwise etc do eventually suffer the consequences. 

I just don't believe there is a divine invervention to ensure all is made fair.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: Who do they cheat with?*



MaritimeGuy said:


> I definately agree there are consequences to your actions. As a general rule people who make bad choices financially, in their marriages, healthwise etc do eventually suffer the consequences.
> 
> I just don't believe there is a divine invervention to ensure all is made fair.


[irony]
Jesus, I hope not.
[/irony]


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I can identify with this whole thread.

I have two LTR ex's who cheated on me. One was with a fireman who was an alcoholic who would start drinking around noon and was drunk almost every day. But he was a firemen and she worshiped firemen almost pathologically. 

The other was a slick poser of a 'ladies man', who would flirt with everyone in a skirt and would dye his hair black and slick it back and then go out with his 20 something year old son and 'score' with women.

I've also seen the other side. My current wife's ex husband cheating on her almost from the get go with a woman he's still with after almost twenty years.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

TryingToRecover said:


> Superior genes? What then explains some of the loser AP's out there? I'm going by some of the descriptions provided about AP's here, described by both BS's and WS's. Some of them are described as losers in terms of social aspects but many of these "loser traits," as described, can only be inherited via DNA. Somehow I fail to see the correlation between some AP's and their more endearing traits, and superior genes. Is there a study out there which confirms your statement and if so, where is it located?
> 
> Or should this just be lumped in with all men having the innate desire and need, beyond the limits of self-control even, to spread their seed as far as wide as possible? If so, I'll just return to my regularly scheduled programming.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do your research, and you'll find plenty of peer-reviewed information supporting my statement. Yes, it's a little too general, but it's basically correct. Following are a couple of easily accessible sources. There are many more.



> The findings support evolutionary psychologists' "good genes" hypothesis: Women have orgasm more often with their most symmetrical lovers, increasing the likelihood of conceiving these men's children. Well, that's how it would have worked for millennia, before condoms and the Pill.


And further down:



> Baker and Bellis found that when women do engage in infidelity, they retain less sperm from their main partners (their husbands, in many cases), and more often experience copulatory orgasms during their trysts, retaining semen from their secret lovers. Taken together, these findings suggest that *female orgasm is less about bonding with nice guys than about careful, subconscious evaluation of their lovers' genetic endowment*.


The Orgasm Wars | Psychology Today


Go to page 225 here:

The Evolutionary Biology of Human Female Sexuality - Randy Thornhill Distinguished Professor of Biology University of New Mexico, Steven W. Gangestad Distinguished Professor of Psychology University of New Mexico - Google Books


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Sometimes people have affairs because they're getting the one thing from the affair partner that they aren't getting in the relationship.

So a woman who is getting 9/10 things she wants may have an affair with a guy that will give her the 1/10 things she isn't getting. So he can be a total loser but just give that one thing that she's not getting. So now in her life she's getting 10/10 things she wants, and she hides the affair because she doesn't want to risk losing the 9/10 things for the 1/10 thing. Same goes for some guys.

This is why they're so dangerous, and why affair partners often are such losers -- they can't provide the other things, which is why the cheating spouse doesn't leave the marriage. They just want a top up.

You can, I think, reduce the odds of these kinds of affairs by constantly checking in on the marriage, and try to be objective about it. Find the weakest thing in your marriage and bring it up to at least a tolerable level. Otherwise there's a gap in your marriage armour, so to speak.

On the other hand, sometimes people have affairs for reasons that have nothing to do with the other spouse, or the marriage at all. Some people will just cheat given the opportunity. Some people need to have constant validation from others. Some people just crave the excitement of the new and the drama that it brings.

The only solution for this stuff I think is good mate selection. Which can come too late after the rings are on.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Served Cold said:


> If you really want see your WS, just take a look at their affair partner.
> 
> It's too convenient to lay the marriage problems or the imperfections of the betrayed spouse as cause for cheating.
> 
> ...


You are stereotyping a specific type of affair. The guys I know see sugar babies or escorts and don't tell the former they are married and the latter don't care if they are or not.

Coworker right now is 44 and he sees a 24yr old grad student at FSU. She is very hot he treats her great. They go on daycations, nice dinners, as the "sugar baby" monicker describes some $$$ and gifts too. The part he likes GREAT HOT SEX WITH A GORGEIOUS WOMAN!

So.......in her mind she is be wined and dined by a older professional guy who doesn't have a family and just likes younger women.

They talk constantly, but there are no strings and he has the means to do it makes about 220k.

So, it's all relative, he is happily married by all forms of measure aside from liking to be with new and younger woman from time to time.

Many affairs are with women/men that have no clue their affair partner is married or 'attached', but I do agree affairing down is pretty common we all have seen it. Just know there are other affairs too.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

marduk said:


> So a woman who is getting 9/10 things she wants may have an affair with a guy that will give her the 1/10 things she isn't getting.



The problem with this "thinking"/statement is at least two-fold:

1 Nobody can fulfill every desire of anybody else insofar as I know. That's an internal thing. If you've got a gaping hole you are trying to fill to make you feel better about yourself, then you might be the problem, not your spouse. Contentment is largely a DIY thing.

2. Habitation will always triumph if you are always looking for something external that you desire to "make you happy". You will never be content if that's the path you choose. If I can get that new car I will be happy. You get the car. You are happy. A year later, you take the car for granted, and it has lost most if not all of its appeal.

If you think of people like things, and you are looking for things and people to make you happy, you're missing out on contentment, and you'll be stuck on a treadmill your whole life because if the person who you've been with 20 years says "you look nice", you've heard it before, and you'll take it for granted. It looses its ability to make you feel good about yourself, but the problem isn't with the words or who is saying them: the problem is you are depending on external things to make you feel good about yourself and your life.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

TimeHeals said:


> The problem with this "thinking"/statement is at least two-fold:
> 
> 1 Nobody can fulfill every desire of anybody else insofar as I know. That's an internal thing. If you've got a gaping hole you are trying to fill to make you feel better about yourself, then you might be the problem, not your spouse. Contentment is largely a DIY thing.
> 
> ...


Oh, I agree with you there. There are things you can do to make your marriage strong, and things you can't do.

What you can do is try to be awesome and objectively try to address your spouse's desires without failing to meet your own needs. Meaning if your wife complains that you don't pay attention to her, assess if you actually do or don't -- because someone else might. And that someone might only need to do that one thing to get in her pants.

But what you can't do is try to meet her desires that should have nothing to do with the marriage. Like if she's a good person, or can only find fulfillment through others, or whatever.

I've talked to a single dude that insists on only dating married women because they're so easy to get in the sack. When I asked him why, he said that all he needs to do is pay attention to them and the clothes come off.

Of course I told him that he was a ********* but took his words seriously.

And to your point, how many people these days seek contentment internally rather than externally?


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

I appreciate the many points of views. It's a window into other's opinions and it's enlightening. 

I can only speak for myself and personally I could not begin a relationship with someone else's spouse. I see someone who is willing to cheat as a character flaw and cowardice. 

Sure, some may believe that to affair up is about age, looks or monetary attributes. But for me it's really about character. This is where I draw the distinction. 

I don't think a cheater should be condemned for life. Many people who have cheated grow and become a better self, and some don't grow from it. 

Sure, some affair partners end up together. I guess it's a mindset of "All's well that ends well". I doubt these affair partners turned into "real relationships" would tolerate cheating.

The hypocrisy is glaring. So, is happy ever after, an ideal regardless as how to get to it?


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

TimeHeals said:


> The problem with this "thinking"/statement is at least two-fold:
> 
> 1 Nobody can fulfill every desire of anybody else insofar as I know. That's an internal thing. If you've got a gaping hole you are trying to fill to make you feel better about yourself, then you might be the problem, not your spouse. Contentment is largely a DIY thing.
> 
> ...


Excellently worded! BRAVO!!!!! :smthumbup:


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

OhGeesh said:


> You are stereotyping a specific type of affair. The guys I know see sugar babies or escorts and don't tell the former they are married and the latter don't care if they are or not.
> 
> Coworker right now is 44 and he sees a 24yr old grad student at FSU. She is very hot he treats her great. They go on daycations, nice dinners, as the "sugar baby" monicker describes some $$$ and gifts too. The part he likes GREAT HOT SEX WITH A GORGEIOUS WOMAN!
> 
> ...


A contradiction here? The fact that they don't care or ACT like they don't know is reflective of their loser mentality. No my very dear, they DO know, they are just mentally and emotionally immune to the knowledge. No conscience. Hot sex with gorgeous STDs perhaps? :rofl:


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

change title to "WHAT they cheat with"


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## Imstrong123 (May 18, 2013)

IT IS NEVER the spouse's fault when a WWS cheats...never, ever! They cheat because they have a problem...many times they need validation from strangers, from desperate women (in my case) who would hear anyone telling them what they wanted to hear, and that was my H...they cheat because they can, because the have no integrity, are not honest, and whatever they feel when they are cheating is overwhelmingly much more exciting than putting the effort to be a good husband, father, friend..as these roles demand you be unselfish....this people are the absorbed in their own needs, wants, impulses and don't care about anyone else but themselves...
is almost kind of a madness really...IF you didn't have kids, it was a young marriage, you did right in divorcing her...move on, life is too short and reconciliation is very, very hard...Good luck!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

If you read "not just friends" the author says that the person that gives MOST in a marriage is actually at the highest risk of being cheated on...

Because the other person is invested less.

I'm learning that lesson the hard way.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> Was your wife's affair partner as good a listener as you revenge affair partner?


I have no idea.

This song, "He's Back in Town," tells the story of what happened as far as I could make out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjmxp9-cGQI

That song is like knives in my soul, now.


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