# How bad do you think ogling other people is?



## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

Ok, 
Look, i get it, guys need to oggle all hot women in the area. Most gals do the same with guys for that matter. What are you guys really thinking when you see hot women on the street? Does this have anything to do with your faithfulness or your wives? How do you gals deal with your guys doing this?

My thought process is along the lines of "would do him", "wouldn't do him". Guys passing me by aren't really very important to me (i don't drool and envision myself in bed with them), i just feel the need to classify everything that's visually interesting (whether guys, gals, cars, clothes etc). There'll be that one exceptionally attractive guy i'll look several times at and try to figure out if he really is that attractive. 

Finally, how do you break it to a guy that it's highly offensive when he's with you on the street, a hot woman passes by then he checks if you're looking, thinks you're not and turns his head to check out her ass? Then, of course, he sees you looked back after her as well and smile and he acts odd. How do i have this talk with him? I understand that there are a ton of pretty women out there, i'll look at them as well...as i'll look at hot guys. I won't hide it or pretend i'm not doing it. I look at just about anything around me. I'm aware some women are more attractive than me, just as some men are more attractive than him. They're just eye candy. But i don't like this dishonesty crap. As a bonus, i'm pretty attractive too and i would actually dress up more provocative (don't understand by this naked or sleazy) for him if he'd only freaking let me/tell me he wants me to. Right now he thinks that as long as he's in jeans and skate shoes i'd look like crap being more womanly and dressed up. 

The thing about my guy is that he's desperately tried to hide being interested in other women. For the first three years or so, it might even have been genuine because he really, really seemed disinterested. The problem is i can't even tell anymore. After that, i don't know what the hell happened. He points out all the "ugly" women in the area, when asked who he finds attractive he said that he doesn't find most women exceptionally hot, just nice looking. On one occasion he told his guy friends how he has an exceptionally hot colleague they'd like to meet. He'd previously mentioned he found her too manly. So i asked him if he found her hot. He said "yes, she's hot for this bunch here, they like most women anyway, for me she's not because she acts too much like a man". He's the guy who always criticized other guys with being obsessed with women, actually to their face. 

How do i strike a conversation without seeming threatening? Don't get me wrong, i get how it's natural for people to look but my idea of a marriage is honesty, enough trust and emotional connection to be able to not pretend stuff like this isn't happening. Just as with porn, i'm not going to tell him to stop, want to check up on him while he's doing it or hold it against him. But it's crap when he actually denies and hides it for years. Is it so wrong of me to ask him to be open about this?


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

My step-father was like this and even as a guy I found it embarrasing, especially since he began visiting my college, which was a party school. 

Seriously, it's hard to know how to fix this other than to tell him exactly how it makes you feel. And if you are willing to follow through, let him know that it will not be tolerated. To me, its a matter of respect for the other person, and even for my wife. 

I ran around with the wrong people as a young man, and fighting was our mode of entertainment. I didn't change overnight after I married. My wife had an amazing shape, so on a few occasions, when guys were being very obvious, I went overboard, and when they pushed back ... the police were called. Point is, if he looks at the wrong girl, life might teach him a cruel lesson.

Tell him how it makes you feel, and how it makes you doubt yourself as a woman. If he loves you, it should be tempered immediately.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi, thank you for replying 

This is not a usual occurrence on his part. The woman that passed by really was attractive enough to make me want to stare at her (in fact that's how i noticed he was looking, we were looking at the same thing) and i'm not bothered. It doesn't necessarily bother me as a woman. I'm aware that some people will be more attractive than me. 

Argh, it's hard to explain. I want honesty and i want to know who i'm living with. If he hides all this stuff about himself, pretends not to look at women, at porn, not to be interested in any of them, i get a sense of him being exceptionally uninterested and then, when i see him doing any of that it completely spoils my impression of him. I'll think "Wow, i don't know this guy at all, and he's my husband". 

That's what's bothering me. None of the stuff he's doing feels that threatening to me, the concealing of his personality, however, is threatening because i figure "if he goes through so much to hide this and that, what else is he hiding". So how do i explain that i know he's a guy and he is welcomed to be more open with what he likes, wants etc?


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

Ahhh! I see.

My wife struggled with the fact that she found certain guys to be attractive, but thought it made her abnormal. I told her that it was going to be hard for me to explain, but I'd rather her be honest with these feelings, because I'm not threatened by them. Also, because she is very insecure, she likes it when people notice as long as it's not leering. Again, I explained that she could be open about it. Trying to hide it only makes me suspect she's letting the thoughts go too far.

With me, I lived in a small community when I lived with my father. Seemed like every third child in the area looked like him, and he talked endlessly to us about seizing the moment, and never marrying. I suspect people thought I was just like him. I was attracted to older women. Seems like when I really noticed, it always led to trouble. I'm hypersensitive about it now. A number of years ago, I even took my wife to his funeral, and nearly panicked when I recognized several women I had slept with as a teenager because they all greeting me a little over the top.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

"Trying to hide it only makes me suspect she's letting the thoughts go too far."
yes, this is exactly what i'm talking about. I desire an open and honest marriage. If we said we'd be faithful to each other, then great, this should offer us more freedom of expression rather than make us hide things. If we're hiding things then maybe we're not secretly that committed after all. 

I've always had a problem with the theory that you're close to someone in your marriage yet that someone acts completely different when he/she is alone (aka struggle not to oggle when you're with your spouse but whistle over other people when you're alone). Now that i found him and i know i love him i'd just love us to be close and honest with each other and not feel threatened by attraction to other people that we'll naturally feel occasionally. 

My problem is, how the hell do i explain this to him without him being afraid that i'm nagging or that he'll get me angry if he's truthful? You know how some guys are, you ask them "how attracted are you to other women?" and they'll think it's turning into a fight and stop listening. We had the same problem with porn...i asked a really short question and he behaved like a 7-year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Not only is that not attractive but it makes me feel like he's hiding something. This is the same guy who makes a ton of poop jokes. My reasoning "dude, if you can tell me about your pooping habit, you're ashamed to tell me that you wank, what the hell is up with that?"


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Does he come home to you every night? Is he faithful and attentive to you?

How about just saying "She's pretty attractive. what do you like about her?" Listen to what he says. If you are insecure that his looking at other women threatens you, take what he says and apply it to yourself.

Yes, guys do this and it can be disrespectful. Use it to your advantage.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

I see Ooogling, and just looking as two different things.

I am well aware my husband has found other women attractive, and always does, I find other men "pretty". It also has to be mentioned that when I find someone "pretty" it does not mean I'd bother doing anything sexual with them even if I was single, they're the equivalent of a really well put together flower box, merely scenery, as (ive tried explaining to my husband) attraction for me, comes from things above the physical.

Oogling is a bit different in my book, (which aparently is different from many peoples) Oogling is almost obsessive, the continued staring and checking out and drooling over etc. I have been oogled, and its not a fun or nice feeling, its kind of gross and disturbing, like a horny puppy humping your legs with his eyes.

Now, if my husband was doing something along those lines, or making a point to talk to whatever random chick it is he's finding attractive at the moment, I would be severely put off...and have been.

your husbands hiding it would concern me too, similar to how you explained it. It's not the actual behavior, but the act of hiding it that would cause my concern. If you can explain that to him, with confidence and assuring body language that makes him comfortable and able to not assume you have other motives or concerns, do it. Just make sure you don't present yourself insecure or like you're worried he's up to something.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

Chris Taylor said:


> Does he come home to you every night? Is he faithful and attentive to you?


Yup, he comes home and he's faithful as far as i know. Attentive not so much lately but i can understand why and that's another story. 



> How about just saying "She's pretty attractive. what do you like about her?" Listen to what he says. If you are insecure that his looking at other women threatens you, take what he says and apply it to yourself.
> 
> Yes, guys do this and it can be disrespectful. Use it to your advantage.


I didn't go the whole way. I just said "she's pretty attractive" regarding women on TV. His response is usually "nah, she has a big mouth", "she's ok but kind of plain" or "are you kidding me? she's chubby". I didn't ask a ton of times though and i have no clue what to believe anymore. yeah, i'm picky when it comes to guys too, but c'mon, every single one of those women? 

What would you think of a guy who always says this kind of stuff and goes to all lengths to make other women look ugly while you're "exactly the perfect size a woman should be". He then mentioned once "hey, you know, your boobs are the best i've seen for your body shape and size, by far". Yes, i know he was comparing me to what he sees on the web and porn, but still, isn't it a bit far fetched that he just points the defects in all these women?

For the record, i'm more the kind that can afford walking with spouse on the street and commenting on all people..,"that one looks good, that one not so much, she's nice, he's cute...etc" on both genders. They're just people we look at who have nothing to do with our lives. Am i seeing things wrong here?


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

CLucas976 said:


> I see Ooogling, and just looking as two different things.


Yeah, i meant looking. Bad choice of words then, sorry 



> Your husbands hiding it would concern me too, similar to how you explained it. It's not the actual behavior, but the act of hiding it that would cause my concern. If you can explain that to him, with confidence and assuring body language that makes him comfortable and able to not assume you have other motives or concerns, do it. Just make sure you don't present yourself insecure or like you're worried he's up to something.


Will try to do just as you suggested. Thanks for the advice.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Most people look, and considerate people try to be discreet about it. I don't want to know when my boyfriend has noticed the huge boobs on the girl that just walked by, just as I'm sure he doesn't want to know when I'm checking out the nice butt on that guy. 

But there's a difference between discreet and hiding. Discreet is simply being low-key, not drawing attention to what you're doing. Hiding is going out of your way to make it look like you're not doing it, and even lying about doing it. 

At the same time, though, I have to wonder why you keep asking, or bringing it up to him. If you don't want him to stop, and you don't care if he does it, then why bring it up? Most women bring it up because it bothers them, they want the guy to stop or they want to fight about it. Given that that is typically the reason for bringing it up, he's going to feel as though he has to hide it when you ask, because he doesn't want to fight or whatever. Even if he *should*, in your opinion, know you're different, if women in his past have had issues with it, and all he sees in other relationships is women having problems with it, he's going to go with what he thinks is safest. 

I would stop bringing it up. I think if you ignore it you might get better results. If he sees that you don't really care, and maybe even that you check out other men, eventually he should come to realize that you're not bothered and that he doesn't have to hide anything.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

@Atruckersgirl

That's the thing. I don't bring it up. A few years ago, i didn't even think about him looking at other people. We'd walk on the street, i'd mind my own business and looking and he'd stick to his. He made me suspicious when he kept pointing out how some women weren't attractive, as if trying to convince me that he's not looking after other women. 

And to put it plainly, now i'm curious what this is all about, what he's really like and just how much he looks. I didn't pick on him for looking at someone. I'm don't expect him to share every single thought. I just want to get a better understanding of his 'whole" personality so to speak . I'm asking how to approach it exactly because i know he might be worried i want to pick a fight.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I was discussing this with my husband one day. I am also different in this area. Men will do that anyway, so why don't we do it with them together, then they don't need to hide. It is like watching porn, no matter how hard you try to forbid him from watching it, he'll still do it, it is only making him try to lie and hide. Do it with him together. 

When I see hot chicks, I point it out to my husband, and both of us start to enjoy it. She has a nice body, she has nice boobs, she has a pretty face, congratulations. My husband can watch, can stare, but can he go up to that girl and do anything? Do you think the other girl is interested in him? NO. He can't do anything. The woman comes and goes, it is like witnessing a small accident, he forgets right away!


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

@greenpearl - yes, that's sort of how i feel. I mean, we talk about all cars we see, all places we see, all everything we see. We talk about what we do during our day at work, we're supposed to be confident enough in our relationship and bond to know that while we're attracted by other people occasionally and we might look, it doesn't mean much. 

So i never understood why this has to be hidden and never discussed. My question remains and i think that's what i'm going to ask him, how he can point out all the ugly (i don't see them that way but oh well) women around but never a pretty one


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I apologize. The way I read it was that you are always asking him or talking about it and he denies and hides it. My mistake. 

Honestly, I don't know of any way you really could bring it up that he won't think it's going to be a fight, except to maybe preface it by saying, "I don't want to fight, but I'm curious to know..." and then just hope that he takes you at your word and answers you honestly.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I am going to offend some people! I don't know who they are, hope they are not offended. 

We check out heavy ones. Call me naughty here. 

Some women are heavy, it is OK that they are heavy, the problem is they don't dress modestly. They wear tight shirts, and you can see their meat going up and down, it is really interesting to watch. 

And there are people who wear weird clothes or make up, they attract our attention. 

I don't think there are many gorgeous women on the streets, all of us are pretty in a way, there aren't many who can really turn your heads. But there are many funny ones like I just mentioned.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

@atruckersgirl - nah, it's prefectly ok  I was thinking of the exact approach you mentioned. I just like things to be open and honest. I guess i think that's what people should do when they're close. My guy on the other hand is afraid to talk about sex, other people, fantasies, anything that has anything to do with him being a guy. I'm really not comfortable with that. 

@greenpearl - where i live, for some odd reason there are so many pretty (and dressed up and on heels) women that you're seriously tempted to joke they are out looking for a wealthier husband now that we're in some pretty rough financial times. They aren't trashy but they look like they put in three-four hours of grooming just to go take the garbage out. They were't always like this either. 

I'm not officially annoyed because i feel the need to be girly in behavior and dress up to but my guy feels that we'd look like crap together (him wearing sporty stuff) if i did.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Nekko,

If they think that they can get men on the street, then I find them very naive. 

I don't know how many people hook up just by meeting each other on the street. Those women are dressing up for nothing. 

Internet is a better way if they do want to meet up men, most of them are bad ones though. 

When I put on something nice, my husband will try to put on something nice. When I wear jeans and shirts, my husband will put on something similar, that has been our code. Normally I just wear jeans and shirts. 

I used to wear dresses or skirts to go to meetings on Sundays, now we don't go to meetings anymore, my dresses, skirts, and high heels are all resting!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

At one time I became fascinated by body language. Did you know for example that a 3 second look at a stranger means there’s interest in the eyes of the beholder! Now trying to stop that 3 second look from occurring would be the same as trying to stop your heart from beating with just your mind. That is it simply isn’t possible because it’s automatic.

Observe yourself for example walking through say a shopping mall. We have to walk with our eyes open to look at for a café or a shop etc. and to stop bumping into things. Now while you’re scanning your surroundings notice where your eyes linger. Out of the 10, 20 or 30 people your eyes scan over 90% of the people you simply wont “see”. But you’ll stop your scanning when you see a person who is attractive to you and you eyes will linger on them for 3 seconds. That person has been selected as attractive and just like a heartbeat there’s nothing you can do to stop your eyes lingering.

What happens next? Well your eyes have paused over the person. Depending what else your were thinking about now you have a choice what to do, that is what comes next is a “conscious choice”. If we’re pretty interested our eyes will scan the whole body. If that comes back with a plus then we’ll take in more detail. Detail like what clothes are they wearing, are they coordinated, do we like the style, what are the colours, does what they’re wearing match the “type” of person we like. What’s the expression on their face, what does their demeanour tell us about them, confident, sad, happy etc. etc.

All this can take place in around 10 or 15 seconds after the initial 3 second filtering of the person from all those around them.

If we’re quite attracted to and interested in them we will “signal” our interest. If the person we’re looking at is interested in us they will signal their interest back. Now we’re walking past each other. If we’re seriously interested our head will turn … for a look at the back! This is when it’s wise to first see if there are any obstacles in your path, such as a lamppost.

Now what does it mean when you witness your husband turning around for a look? Well he is consciously doing it and because of that he can stop doing it. But if he’s a red blooded male it will take quite a lot of will power not to look after that 3 second pause. Does it mean he’s on the lookout for another woman? If that’s the case then he’ll make contact with her with some form of chat up line. If you are attractive, should he still be looking at other attractive woman? Well he’s still with you so maybe you are overly worrying.

I think it all comes down to “it’s just what some men do”. Did you know that when a woman turns around and walks away that something like 80% of men will look at her bum? It’s a natural thing to do. If a woman bends down in front of us we will look at her breasts. If a woman bends down with her back to us we will look at her bum. It takes a conscious effort not to. Women know these things very well as it’s pretty heavy flirting, much like pushing her hair back and exposing her neck and an ear. We don’t live in a shoe box and we do notice the attractions around us. Doesn’t mean we’re cheating or we have the inclination to cheat.

Bob


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Bob,

YOU are funny. 

You men are just funny creatures. 

I check out handsome men too. 

We check out handsome men, too. 

But I haven't seen anyone I want to linger!


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

Hey Bob, was looking forward to you responding. I am well aware of all that you've mentioned. I've done some looking myself (i'm especially attracted to voices as well so if something sounds right i'll literally scan the room to see where it's coming from) and guys do look at me. You've mentioned checking for lampposts. A guy ran into one once after we've stared at each other. 

I get it ...honestly do. I agree with the bum checking as well as i've walked past enough reflective surfaces to know that men are looking and i've had plenty of co-workers who were strictly talking with my cleavage. 

My problem is that he is convinced to make me believe he doesn't like any other women, doesn't find them attractive, thinks most are ugly. That's to a point makes me feel like his mother rather than his "equal". The part about the shoebox that you've mentioned...it feels like he thinks i'm an idiot? Understand what i mean?  We all go through that, we know it's for the most part harmless yet he'll continue to pretend it's not happening. It's like when you ask someone "are you breathing?" and they say no, over and over again and you wonder why they have to lie about it.


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## Tangled (Nov 11, 2010)

I personally am not bothered by it, my husband that left me din't do it much but if I did notice it I didn't care cause I knew he loved me and I loved him and I was the one he was going home with. As for me, I don't particularly go around looking at guys, I don't have an interest for other men I love my husband and he more than enough for me to look at ...well when I had him..


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

A man will notice a woman, this is not disputed.

But of course, a man, he should not go out of his way to be over the top ogling, either with or without his woman, any other woman. What beneficial purpose at all would this serve? 

This will be disrespecting to his woman, causing insecurity and often insult.

Regardless he should NEVER hide that he notices a woman as a man will do, this is wrong.

For a man to be apparent to notice a woman, this is flattery to her providing the man is presenting himself with respect and digninty, but over the top ogling, which is making a woman feel uncomfortable, the man that does this is not presenting himself with respect and dignity. From such a man, ogling will never be flattery to a woman!





Nekko said:


> @greenpearl - where i live, for some odd reason there are so many pretty (and dressed up and on heels) women that you're seriously tempted to joke they are out looking for a wealthier husband now that we're in some pretty rough financial times. They aren't trashy but they look like they put in three-four hours of grooming just to go take the garbage out. They were't always like this either.


The lower the economy, the higher the heels. 

Rising high heels correlate with falling economy.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Nekko said:


> "My problem is, how the hell do i explain this to him without him being afraid that i'm nagging or that he'll get me angry if he's truthful? You know how some guys are, you ask them "how attracted are you to other women?" and they'll think it's turning into a fight and stop listening. We had the same problem with porn...i asked a really short question and he behaved like a 7-year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Not only is that not attractive but it makes me feel like he's hiding something.


 

I think most men have been "burned" by being THIS open with their women, even learning this as a teen or other "good" advice from men - to never share too much, it could bite them 
in the end. Maybe YOU can handle the truth, but the majority & probably women from his past couldn't. I remember being at a party once where this woman said she would cut her 
husband's balls off if she ever caught him looking at another woman - or porn. This is rediculous overkill but such women exist & have influenced the minds of men. 

I recently was at a Water park, watched while this young couple was sitting in nearby chairs, both red eyes -visably crying, his head buried in a towel, she moved away, he tried to comfort her, MUCH Drama- he left & I was determined to strike up a conversation with her, see if she needed someone to talk too-- and this was the whole problem, HE just casually 
"Mentioned" something about looking at women, she took this SOOOOO personal, it destroyed their vacation. She admits he has been faithful, good to her, better than past boyfriends. I tried to reassure her , from all I know about men & communication, the fact he was shedding tears in a public place *spoke volumes *- to how he didn't want to "hurt her". He could have done what many do, brush her off, say she is over-reacting. Which is true much of the time. 

But I sure bet this guy has learned his lesson with women - to keep this thoughts to himself!!! I say women should never ask these kinds of questions --unless you have proven to him , and to yourself -that you can HANDLE his honestly in this area & will hold nothing against him in expressing such ogling. Many many women will dissect every little word that comes out of his mouth & easily construct a mountain out of something he sees as a molehill. 

Me & my husband have come to this place of openness with one another, but even I got some upset the 2nd time we went to a strip club. It had less to do with anything he said but more to do with his attention. I had it out with him later that night , he was very willing to just never go back, but that was not what I wanted from him. I did not mind his enjoying the scenery, but I had to get at his heart, knowing I was still #1, he made it all very clear. I think a woman must FEEL this before she can honestly accept her man's ogling. 

If you feel this from your man, by all means, talk about it, try to connect with him where the opportunities to share are easier/safer for him , I would start with some porn watching, 
suggesting which women you feel have really beautiful bodies, asking which he prefers, pointing out the men who turn you on & WHY, asking if he likes this one or that one, this may get him to open up more - not even realizing what he is saying!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

We teach others how to treat us.

The marital road is littered with the corpses of men who are told that "honesty" is required.

Being nice guys - trying to please - they open up.


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## Kaitlin (Nov 10, 2010)

Attraction is a natural aspect of humanity. It doesn't go away just because you are in a committed relationship, but it does change in strength. My husband and I might find some other person attractive, but that doesn't mean we're attracted to them, and neither of us would accept "oogling." Since we've been together, the interest in others of the other sex has truly diminished, and I am just fine with that  It is my personal belief that if you are truly happy and satisfied in a relationship attraction, oogling, and fantasizing about other people just doesn't happen.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Kaitlin said:


> It is my personal belief that if you are truly happy and satisfied in a relationship attraction, oogling, and fantasizing about other people just doesn't happen.


I guess the term OOGLING needs to be defined: I looked it up, it states : 

1. To stare at impertinently, flirtatiously, or amorously
2. to look at (someone) amorously or lustfully
3. look at with amorous intentions
4. Urban Dictionary is my favorite - it states this: to glance or stare in a flirtatious way ; eye amorously --to look at someone as if ones eyes are about to pop out of ones head.

When I originally read all this, I assumed the definition was simply looking - a passing fleeting attraction, but this Oogling word seems to imply MORE than that, in this case, I agree with Kaitlin !!!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Oogling definitely out when married/in a committed relationship. Probably not good at any time. But there are rare times, at least for me when the chemistry’s truly singing that’s it’s not until after a while that I realise I’m actually staring, almost like mesmerised for a while. That’s how I first saw my wife and from that time on I was in love for a very long time. Sometimes it’s a lamppost that gets me out of my trance lol.

Bob


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

AFEH said:


> At one time I became fascinated by body language. Did you know for example that a 3 second look at a stranger means there’s interest in the eyes of the beholder! Now trying to stop that 3 second look from occurring would be the same as trying to stop your heart from beating with just your mind. That is it simply isn’t possible because it’s automatic.


Although many people would disagree, I think its a mutual shared body language that tends to turn ogling or watching into a dangerous opportunity in just a few seconds.

Probably, I had one of the strangest childhoods. My father was really into seducing women like it was a game, so he talked about this instead of normal father/son topics. And since I went through an eastern mysticism and trancendental phase, I became interested for a time, but just couldn't stomach treating people like it was a game. My dad would bet me a significant amount of money that he could have sex with a particular married woman, and I lost more times than not.

The philosophy was that a guy should already know if there is an agreement before he even approaches her. It's the combination of body language. You see cases where the affair begins before words are even uttered, usually started by someone watching. Not saying that watching is wrong, but only that it can mean more to the one being watched if you are not careful.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

takris said:


> Although many people would disagree, I think its a mutual shared body language that tends to turn ogling or watching into a dangerous opportunity in just a few seconds.
> 
> Probably, I had one of the strangest childhoods. My father was really into seducing women like it was a game, so he talked about this instead of normal father/son topics. And since I went through an eastern mysticism and trancendental phase, I became interested for a time, but just couldn't stomach treating people like it was a game. My dad would bet me a significant amount of money that he could have sex with a particular married woman, and I lost more times than not.
> 
> The philosophy was that a guy should already know if there is an agreement before he even approaches her. It's the combination of body language. You see cases where the affair begins before words are even uttered, usually started by someone watching. Not saying that watching is wrong, but only that it can mean more to the one being watched if you are not careful.


I don’t get what you are saying Takris. With respect it sounds like you are projecting and not understanding the way I meant it.

Bob


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## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

_There'll be that one exceptionally attractive guy i'll look several times at and try to figure out if he really is that attractive._

If I do this my wife says I've gone from glancing to staring. Even if I'm zoning out and just looking away from her if there are women in that direction she'll nudge me


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

i dont know what is worse oggling or the snap shot and i constantly stare at other women i am a shoe freak and how else do you know what to buy my h is a people watcher but what i really hate is when i am at the g store and people just stare and peer into your cart lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

Thank you all for your answers. When i wrote ogling i also assumed it meant looking, i didn't know it had a deeper connotation. Anyway, i talked to him, he was honest and I actually appreciate that.  

@BWW - Yes, you're quite right. A guy trying to deny he notices women isn't doing a very smart thing. 

I don't get the part with the heals though. I can understand the heel size is tied to economy but why are all these women doing it? I'm personally tempted to do it (now) because i'm starting to feel short and small between all these tall women on heels.

@SimplyAmorous - I can handle most of it. Yes, there's some stuff i'd be jealous about but i'll never nag or yell about it again. I'm just going to ask politely and deal with whatever happens. But i understand the part about having to feel nr. 1 though. (for me it's not the nr. 1 most beautiful, sexy etc...i can easily accept others will be better, it's nr. 1 person he wants to be with). Otherwise, the relationship starts feeling a bit pointless imo. 

Ok, my bad with Ogling, i thought it simply meant looking a bit longer than a second. Let's just go back to "looking". 

@Conrad - Yes, i know. You have a valid point. I've seen plenty of men having to suffer because of being honest. I still have male friends who hide out to smoke so that their wives don't know. I never understood this. I've never forbid my guy to do anything...literally, can't remember one thing in 9 years. he's not my child, he's an adult. All i can do is ask for honesty and accept it. I used to get a bit angry before when he told me i "look like crap in that dress"...but looking back, he was actually right and now i dress a lot better. 

@chefmaster - That usually happens in malls. I don't stare at him per say. One quick glance, do whatever i'm doing, another quick glance. I'm not actually compelled to look. i could ignore looking at guys. But i'm just too curious and visual and i'll look at nearly everything that passes me by. I also notice women that look good very often. Children or older people with pretty eyes or nice clothes...almost anything.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

re How bad do you think ogling other people is?
... It's only bad if one of the partners suffers with bad/unhealthy self esteem/worth and feels threatened by it. It's also 'bad' if the ogler is blatant and offensive because that's a form of cheating, IMO. 
If the upset partner takes the time to fix their bad self worth, they will be in a better position to confront the 'ogler' assuming the ogler is being offensive. The ogler needs to realize that their is a polite way and an offensive way to ogle. 
My wife and I decided a long time ago that we would not 'flip out' if one of us 'looks' at some other person because we know such flipping is about insecurity and bad self esteem. We decided to have good self esteem and permit each other to look in a decent and respectful way. So far our agreement is working and we are free to walk down at the beach without fear or gguilt when we both 'looks' at really delightful stuff which in no way threatens our marriage or respect for each other. I don't DROOL and she doesn't flip out. Same for me. It's a matter of perspective and maturity based on good self respect and modesty of behavior. If there ever is a problem with 'looking' we will be able to work it out with good communication and mutual respect (love).


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## turmoil (Nov 2, 2010)

What a great site. I was recently divorced and this website helped me make the decision. My ex and I are still good friends, there are no resentments, and neither of us secretly longs for the other person. It's truly the best divorce in history.

I just started dating again. I did get into a relationship faster than I expected, as I tried very hard to respect my ex husband's feelings (I left). He ended up getting into a relationship quickly, so when the man I was interested in asked me out, I went. Have been in therapy for over a year and I continue to go because I want a healthy relationship. That’s always the goal. As far as the boyfriend, I chose a much different type of mate than my ex-husband. My husband let me walk all over him. This man will not, and I respect him for that. 

With this, new conflicts are surfacing. One is that he ogles other woman. *To be honest, simply put-it makes me feel bad.* I'm still sorting out whether this is my insecurity or not. In the meantime, I am communicating with him about it. The main feeling that I have is that it feels very disrespectful. Why, you men ask? *Because to me, sex is very important. I am sharing it with you and only you, because I choose you. I could choose other men, but I choose you. You ogling other women is communicating: even though I have this great woman, I'm a bit greedy and I'm making it known. * I know personally that I'm enough, but if he does not, I am definitely capable of moving on. I will humbly say that I am a very attractive woman with a lot to offer another man. However, I would like to work through this with him because he truly is a good man and outside of some of these issues, we connect well (including great sex). I also know that he really does care for me deeply already, I can tell by his other behaviors. Additionally, I am fairly confident that he will not cheat on me. This does not change the fact that ogling behavior is disrespectful.

A bit more about my thoughts on it:
*I do understand he will be attracted to other women.* I can physically be attracted to other men. However, I make a choice not to let my mind go there-I just don’t entertain it. Temptation is exactly that-temptation, and I don't believe in playing with it. It's not that I ignore other men and pretend they don't exist. It's that I choose not to fantasize about them-physically or emotionally. I’ve got a man who can satisfy me. For you men who say "all men categorize". Fine. I get it, I'm sure I do too. Then be done, don't make the woman know how you categorized them and for god's sakes, if the categorizing is so biological, you won't need to envision having sex with them to determine if they actually are "do-able".

The BF is having a tough time understanding my position, and I his. I cannot shake my reluctance to accept that men are just visual creatures who have no control over their desire. I think it's a societal cop-out, all the way. * Men have been allowed to do it because women had no social power prior to now.* Men, we don’t need you financially any more and you’ll begin to see that. I do believe your behaviors will change. 

The bottom line is that it feels disrespectful, and that I actually don't think it's safe because healthy monogamy is difficult. That's my belief-wrong or not. His is that all men do this and me requesting that he change is my attempt to control him. This is not it at all. I am not requesting that he cease talking to/looking at other women as the people that they are. Categorizing their beauty is fine. *I just expect you to control your signaling of lust.*

At this point, the only course of action I have is to begin ogling other men. I expressed this during our discussion last night, and he thought it was vindictive of me. I cannot emphasize that it is not my intention. In reality, it is my last attempt to help him understand what the behavior does to anyone, male or female. I feel I must reflect his behavior back to him through actual experience. I just don't accept the double standard.
*If the behavior is truly not disrespectful and something that should not bother me, he should have no problem with me doing this to other men.* Up to this point, I have not done this because I know it will hurt his feelings. However, pardon the feminism, but men have been able to escape on the "it's just the way we are" for too long now. I don't enjoy playing games and I do believe this is a bit of a game. But honestly, sometimes these social norms require some reality.

I’m a hard a** about it. I know. I am not abnormally jealous but this issue bothers me greatly. I understand monogamy is difficult. And, I’m not unfair. I’m happy to work on any other “female” issue we have. I don’t use men for $, I’m not shallow, and I don’t expect men to take care of me [but if you think it’s sexy to do so-I will too]. * I’m just about equity.* That’s what this divorcee feels a relationship should be about these days. Insight welcome.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm willing to share my insight.



turmoil said:


> What a great site. I was recently divorced and this website helped me make the decision. My ex and I are still good friends, there are no resentments, and neither of us secretly longs for the other person. It's truly the best divorce in history.


Good to hear that your divorce went as smooth as can be. That is testament to both of you.



> I just started dating again. I did get into a relationship faster than I expected, as I tried very hard to respect my ex husband's feelings (I left). He ended up getting into a relationship quickly, so when the man I was interested in asked me out, I went.


I will attempt be respectful concerning you and your new boyfriend, but I will be honest, I am considering it very likely you are rebounding, and perhaps motivated by and building this relatoinship on a less than solid foundation.

However, relationships being what they are, always a learning experience and a chance to enjoy learning about someone new and learning more about yourself. 




> Have been in therapy for over a year and I continue to go because I want a healthy relationship. That’s always the goal.


A noble goal.

What specifically is a healthy relationship to you, simply as you can define it? 



> As far as the boyfriend, I chose a much different type of mate than my ex-husband.


Nothing wrong with doing something different to expect different results.

Again, however, how much you choosing based on what your ex husband is not, rather than simply what this new man is himself?

Sometimes how we define something makes all the difference!



> My husband let me walk all over him. This man will not, and I respect him for that.


All good men reading this, read that sentence again and again and commit it to memory. 

This is not just BBW at it again and again about respect and dominance, it is coming straight from the source. 



> With this, new conflicts are surfacing. One is that he ogles other woman. *To be honest, simply put-it makes me feel bad.*


How is he ogling? Is he trying to hide it at all, or being blatant?

A little ogling, nothing unhealthy about it.

Too much, indeed lack of respect.



> I'm still sorting out whether this is my insecurity or not.


If you are in a new relationship soon after leaving a marriage, it is most likely many things, but all these things will impact your sense of insecurity regardless.



> In the meantime, I am communicating with him about it. The main feeling that I have is that it feels very disrespectful. Why, you men ask? *Because to me, sex is very important. I am sharing it with you and only you, because I choose you. I could choose other men, but I choose you. You ogling other women is communicating: even though I have this great woman, I'm a bit greedy and I'm making it known. * I know personally that I'm enough, but if he does not, I am definitely capable of moving on. I will humbly say that I am a very attractive woman with a lot to offer another man. However, I would like to work through this with him because he truly is a good man and outside of some of these issues, we connect well (including great sex). I also know that he really does care for me deeply already, I can tell by his other behaviors. Additionally, I am fairly confident that he will not cheat on me. This does not change the fact that ogling behavior is disrespectful.


Be careful what you wish for!

Asking your boyfriend to pretend to not notice other women, how will you feel if he grants your request to be deceitful to you merely to spare your feelings, when already you admit "My husband let me walk all over him. This man will not, and I respect him for that."

How much will lose respect for him when he begins to be dishonest with you? How much more when he does some other little thing here or there to spare your feelings or some such thing?

What you doing, a slippery slope indeed if you not careful, and especially if you not approaching this from proper foundation.



> A bit more about my thoughts on it:
> *I do understand he will be attracted to other women.*


I wouldn't be so sure you understand exactly. 



> I can physically be attracted to other men. However, I make a choice not to let my mind go there-I just don’t entertain it.


A bird doesn't expect a fish to fly, and the fish doesn't expect the bird to breath underwater.

So it is, when a woman, primaly sexually driven by hypergamy, can easily not entertain building her mind in a fantasy with some other man, then makes the mistake to equate this with a man, primaly driven by visual polygamy, wondering why he cannot simply do the same.

Apples and oranges. 

Ask a woman to not be flattered, even for a second, by receiving deliberate interest to her from a young, rich, handsome, charming, socially exceptional, extroverted man with a million dollar smile, and a somewhat mysterious dark side, that he willing to discuss over some drinks on his private yacht, and then it is beginning to be equal to asking a man to not be attracted to an attractive woman.

The million dollar man, not going to see that around every corner. Easy to say the woman is not going be too distracted too often running into these men.

Beautiful women, well, they are mostly everywhere it is to be seen. A constant battle for the man indeed! 



> Temptation is exactly that-temptation, and I don't believe in playing with it. It's not that I ignore other men and pretend they don't exist. It's that I choose not to fantasize about them-physically or emotionally.


Easy to make that choice for a woman. 



> I’ve got a man who can satisfy me. For you men who say "all men categorize". Fine. I get it, I'm sure I do too. Then be done, don't make the woman know how you categorized them and for god's sakes, if the categorizing is so biological, you won't need to envision having sex with them to determine if they actually are "do-able".


It is biological and primitive, not going to work to try to bargain or negotiate. It is simply being dishonest.



> The BF is having a tough time understanding my position, and I his. I cannot shake my reluctance to accept that men are just visual creatures who have no control over their desire.


Asking a man to flip a switch in his head to turn off noticing other women, not going to happen.

What you asking, only for deceit. 

When a woman finds the switch in her mind to turn off her being flattered by attention, only then is it time to discuss finding and turning off the attraction to attractive women switch in the man's mind. 



> I think it's a societal cop-out, all the way. * Men have been allowed to do it because women had no social power prior to now.* Men, we don’t need you financially any more and you’ll begin to see that. I do believe your behaviors will change.


Nope.

And if your boyfriend is expected to be leveraged with this kind of thinking, he won't be around for long at all.

The kind of control you attempting to put over this boyfriend, or any man, simply will not work.

A wise man told me when I was younger, to choose my battles wisely.

The battle you have chosen, it is not going to turn out well. 



> The bottom line is that it feels disrespectful,


This language, "feels", is emotional and feminine.

Using only logic, and thought, can you envision what exactly is the issue from your boyfriend's perspective?



> and that I actually don't think it's safe because healthy monogamy is difficult. That's my belief-wrong or not. His is that all men do this and me requesting that he change is my attempt to control him. This is not it at all.


Whether you call it controlling, or your boundry, or simply saying it is your line in the sand, is all the same.

What is important? What does this mean? Is this a relationship deal breaker? These are the kind of questions you two need to be discussing.

Not simply initiating a definition from your feminine perspective and expecting agreement.

Do you care about your boyfriend? Then listen to what he is saying.



> I am not requesting that he cease talking to/looking at other women as the people that they are. Categorizing their beauty is fine. *I just expect you to control your signaling of lust.*


This is quite reasonable actually.

As long as it is understood by both what is truly being requested.



> At this point, the only course of action I have is to begin ogling other men. I expressed this during our discussion last night, and he thought it was vindictive of me. I cannot emphasize that it is not my intention. In reality, it is my last attempt to help him understand what the behavior does to anyone, male or female. I feel I must reflect his behavior back to him through actual experience. I just don't accept the double standard.


It is vindictive, because again it is apples and oranges.

Men are not women, and women are not men. 



> *If the behavior is truly not disrespectful and something that should not bother me, he should have no problem with me doing this to other men.* Up to this point, I have not done this because I know it will hurt his feelings. However, pardon the feminism, but men have been able to escape on the "it's just the way we are" for too long now. I don't enjoy playing games and I do believe this is a bit of a game. But honestly, sometimes these social norms require some reality.


It is a game because you are choosing to make it a game.

If your relationship is less important than making some fantastic testament to feminism or make a standing to protest some "social norm", then simply be prepared for the consequences.



> I’m a hard a** about it. I know.


If you say so. 



> I am not abnormally jealous but this issue bothers me greatly. I understand monogamy is difficult. And, I’m not unfair. I’m happy to work on any other “female” issue we have. I don’t use men for $, I’m not shallow, and I don’t expect men to take care of me [but if you think it’s sexy to do so-I will too]. * I’m just about equity.* That’s what this divorcee feels a relationship should be about these days. Insight welcome.


My opinion, much of what you saying is result of the newness of your relationship so soon after your marriage, you have not much to lose in this current boyfriend to make an example of him, as some experiment of what you believe you can expect of a man, thus this particular line in the sand.

I don't care to make any judgment for this, right or wrong, because that is not important to me. 

Your thoughts and sharing, are very worthwhile and I appreciate hearing them and having the opportunity to share my own thoughts.

I wish you well.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

BBW,
You know I adore you, right? I am being sincere here. When you wrote about apples and oranges my head nearly exploded though. So a guy gets a pass at oogling women but a women doing the exact same thing is different? Total bs. If a man wants to blame biology for undressing/putting in a column/using the women he sees for spank material later, then women get the same pass for staring at men and imagining them naked, how great they are in bed and how much stamina they have. After all, our biology is that of finding the fittest, best looking and most athletic man to produce our offspring. I was able to control myself my entire marriage (somehow) and didn't use my biology as an excuse but after finding out about my husband's hobby, to hell with it. I now am as obvious as he is. He says I am being disrespectful. Wow, pot....kettle?!


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