# Is this cheating?



## joseywales (Mar 14, 2009)

Ok, really there is no one that I can talk to about this. Which I guess answers my question in of itself. The thing is my wife and I have not been close lately. I suppose maybe it is the normal hum drum of every day life.

But the thing is there is this girl who everytime I look toward her I have to look away, because I am afraid that she can see right through me. The type of girl that when I do talk to her she makes me weak in the knees. At the same time I feel so guilty. I can feel the sexual tension between us like a huge weight on my shoulders. I have never felt the way that I feel around her before with my wife or anybody else.

Often I try to avoid her because I am afraid that I will be unable to control myself. I go out with her from time to time with friends and I am afraid to drink, for fear that I will do something stupid. Most nights I dream of her, and quite honestly it is driving me crazy both with guilt and desire.

Is there something wrong with me? Am I just caught up in the excitement of a new girl, and the hum drum of married life. Is there really something to that 7 year itch thing. Is this a normal phase of marriage or is it something more?

Am I a bad husband and father for thinking these things?

Thanks in advance...


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## Ted (Mar 2, 2009)

It's not cheating yet, but it will be if you aren't careful. If you are tempted by this woman, DO NOT have any more contact if possible. Also I'm a firm believer that you should tell your wife that you are having these feelings. It will start an uncomfortable conversation, but if you are both willing to work on it, it may pull you out of the hum drum. (This kind of honesty is usually lacking when couples begin to drift.)

The other thing it will do, is take the excitement factor you have for her right now. When it's a secret, you can live in this fantasy world. But once you tell, the fantasy may disappear.

I don't think you are wrong for these feelings, but I think they are a symptom of issues you should work on with your wife. That's my two cents. I wish you the best.


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## Oldfart (Mar 14, 2009)

Been there done that. I have been married for 25 years and these things happen. A couple of things; ask your self what inspired you to marry your wife, look for that spark with all your passion and fix it. 

Every one has fantasies but never, never, never, never think they will come out the way YOU think they will. It will blow up in your face and you both may get hurt.

Lastly speak with your wife, try and sort through this, have you ever thought she may have similar feelings.


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

oh , I'd be so crushed if I knew my hubby was obsessing over another woman like that. That's crushing. Especially to the extent that you're clearly fantasizing about this girl, a Lot..

It's really nothing more than lust, a feeling all humans have, but it can damage your marriage, for sure. The other posters are right. You need to try your best to honor your wife, even in your thoughts, and realize that this is just that, a fantasy. 

Your wife is the one you thought well enough of to marry, she deserves your attention , not this girl. 

It's not wrong of you in theory to be having these feelings, you can't always help what you think and feel, but you do have Some control over those thoughts, and feelings. And if it gets to the point where you're thinking of this girl, night and day, if you're masturbating instead of having sex with your wife, and thinking of this girl while you do it, then yes, I'm sorry, but that is an affair. 

Even if your wife never found out, it's infidelity, because it has come between you and your marriage. Do you see my point? Having those thoughts, and then realizing they are not healthy adn pushing them from your mind, no, that's not infidelity.

But be careful you don't start fantasizing about her , and neglecting your wife because of it. In that respect, it becomes infidelity. It's not cheating yet, but it could sure go that way really quickly... Put this girl out of your mind, and focus your heart and your desires on your wife. 

You two must reconnect, if you can't then the longer you go letting your marriage crumble, the harder it is to bring it back. Good luck..


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## joseywales (Mar 14, 2009)

Marina,

you are making me feel worse... 

I feel terrible for feeling this way, Sometimes I think that I am strong enough to handle it. I always try to play it cool. Tonight I had to work late, (really) and this girl knew it. She begged and begged for me to go out with her just for dinner and some drinks. I really really wanted to go but said no several times. but soon I could no longer resist and agreed. still under the illusion that this was in theory plutonic (just not in my mind). I knew I should not go, and I did anyway.

Then as we where eating she mentioned that she was not sure about the place that we had gone to. She wondered if any of my wifes friends would see us. I was aghast, and exicted to find out that she had feelings for me too. Then I felt terrible for going along with it. Its almost like I am out of my body screaming no, and something just keeps going forward.

Terrible does not describe how I feel, but at the same time strangely happy.

Do you guys/girls really think that this is something to talk with my wife about. I would kill me if I was her


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Well, sorry, but you asked.

But josey, you've just taken it to the next level. Now you are most certainly cheating. 

Don't think, that because you just went out to dinner, with another woman, and haven't had sex yet, that it's not cheating. 

You went out to eat, alone, with a woman that begged you to go, that you knew you shouldn't be even anywhere near, and you most undoubtedly had to lie to your wife about it. And omission, is the same as lying. 

So, now you're cheating. Why? I dont' get it. Yes, I'd be devestated if I was your wife too. 
And geez, it didn't take much for you did it? You didn't even try very hard to resist. And don't lie to yourself, and fool yourself , it's not platonic, and you know it full well.

You have fantasized about this girl for a while, and dream of her, of being with her, and she clearly likes you too, so, it's not platonic and never has been. 
I feel very sorry for your poor wife. She deserves better. No one deserves this kind of betrayel. You won't get any sympathy out of me. 

If you truly love your wife, and want to keep her in your life, then stop this now, while it's in the early stages. Confess to your wife, and seek therapy, and just pray she forgives you. 

Everyone has weak moments, and it's not too late to make this right.....


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## joseywales (Mar 14, 2009)

After re-reading I guess I should clarify.

After she asked if I though any of my wife friends would see us I was aghast - - when did this "friendship" turn into an affair that we needed to hide.

Then I felt horrible, as I thought about it because I knew that I had choose a restuarant precisly because it was out of the way, where no one would see us.

Neither of us have openly stated any feelings for each other, but some how the messages appears to have been communicated without words. Clearly she believes that we are now in some relationship worthy of hiding, eventhough I have in theory done nothing illegal other that in the privacy of my mind (Masurbation is not an issue believe me).

I was temporarily excited because she let her guard down for a minute so I know that I am not the only one with this attraction.

Its like the adult in me knows better but the child in me doesn't care. It was all legal in my mind when it was under the guise of friendship, but that appears now as it was all an elaborate hoax, perhaps one that only existed in my mind serving as justification for my actions.

I cant help but think of the song "Devil Woman Leave me alone", I fell helpless around her, but if she would only leave me alone I would be fine.

Childish I know. I need to deal with this, fortunatly the problem is only in my head right now. The only way to deal with this is to be firm with her (the other woman) and tell her I have no intention of having an affair.

Still I have to admit I enjoy the sexual tension and the flirting.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

i can tell you what is is.
its not that your craving attention. your feeling a breath of fresh air from newness. 
its not about feeling youthful again.
its fact you have and know your wife. but just simply talking to someone new and connecting has revitalised ideas and fantasies, made you feel horny again.
whether they become real enough is another thing but thats your choice.
just remember you could lose what you have.
the thing is in life , you stay in a comfortable environment.
but we forget who we really are. the person who we were b 4 we married and we changed to suit that other persons needs, because were making sacrifices and commitment.
i thought about this recently -
we cant have everything we want from one person - its really alot to ask for. are we ever truly happy.

but to answer your question - if your wife had your thoughts and feeling, would you think she was cheating?


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

well josey, it's like you said, you are not just thinking about it anymore..

You took her out to dinner, to a place where you were sure no one would see you two. This is not a friendship, not when you've been fantasizing about having sex with her, and cant' get her out of your head.

It will most certainly move to the next level, sex, if you don't put a stop to it right now.

It's not this girls fault, as you say, if she would just leave you alone you'd be fine, you weren't fine, you were obsessing about her , night and day.

This is up to You, to control these urges. You can, like you said, the adult in you knows it's wrong, but the child in you doesn't care. Well, you're not a child, so stop acting like one. Don't hurt your wife Josey, because I doubt she'll see your "dinner" as just a friendly power dinner with a work colleague, not if she knows you've been lusting after this girl. 

Your feelings are not evil, or intended to purposely hurt your wife, but they are not appropriate. You can't sit around all day dreaming of this girl, night and day, and then take her out to dinner, and think that you won't eventually have sex with her.

You have to stop this now, unless your marriage means nothing to you.


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## joseywales (Mar 14, 2009)

You both are right of course. I don't know if I would use the word fantasize about her, honestly I have no desire to have sex with her. Well I mean I do have the desire, but I don't want to. I know that if I were to have sex with her it would just ruin the fun. The best that could possibly come of it is I destroy my wife, kids and marry this girl and end up in the same dead end boring life 3 years from now.

I guess the major thing for me is the excitement, I feel like a school kid who has a crush on a girl but would never tell. I am so tired of my life right now get up, go to work, come home, go to bed, get up, go to work on and on and on. It seems to never end, for 5 years it has been this way.

I am sick and tired of being the responsible one everyday. My wife is in some funky depression after she had the twins (about a year ago). I have tried everything, happy pills, counseling, couples counseling. Nothing works, she just sits on the computer all day. I considered having the internet shut off at my home, but decided against it because she would just sit in front of the TV, which I think is worse. She cant even be bothered to empty her ash trays which are overflowing, so she starts to use pop cans, which then get spilled all over everywhere by my older son.

I cant remember the last time I saw her change out of her pajamas. She has not cleaned in god knows how long. Lately I have been working 70-80 hours a week to hit a deadline, and have been only able to clean the kitchen every night (which is my pet peeve). I started taking my clothes to the dry cleaners to be washed because I dont have the time, and she cant be trusted to manage it. Sometimes she will call work and beg me to come home, I do and she goes to bed. BED FOR GOD SAKES. I'm salaried, I have a job to do, every time she does that I have to back to the office after the kids go to bed and work late sometimes all night. DOESN'T SHE KNOW I'M TIRED TOO? I push forward why cant she?

If you mention anything to her about this she goes off into a tyraid about how hard it is to be a stay at home mom. Since when did SAHM become untouchable, and unquestionable? I'm sorry on the whole there must be SAHM that suck at it. I think she is one.

For the last week I have been eating chips and hot sauce, bagels, and cereal for every meal. My living room looks like a delivery food graveyard. I wish I could just fire my wife. I wish she would get a job, I will pay for the babysitting, I don't care at this point.

I am getting quite a bit off topic here I guess, but the point is when I am with the other girl all of that goes away. Its not a sexual thing. Shes funny, alert, beautiful wears makeup. Listens to what I have to say. We have a conversations that include things other than change your son, or pick up formula on the way home.

The problem is this may be worse, if it was just sex, I can dismiss that as I am just horny. This is not sex, I have connected on an emotional and intellectual level. Funny thing is I would never have sex with her because I would be afraid that she would turn into my wife.

I know Im a very sad sick person. Thats why I have come here, everything I have written here is something that I could never say without the anonymity of the internet. At least I now have gotten everything off of my chest.

Thanks.


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Josey, you're not sick, you're bored, and in light of everything you just confesed, likely fed up with your wife's inability to do right by her kids and you. So, in that regard, I don't blame you for being upset, and sick of it. 

Post partum depression is Very serious. And there are women, who after having babies, just can't seem to get back to normal. The only think that will work, is if you continue to get her help. She needs to see a therapist, and perhaps explore different kinds of meds... may I also suggest something that might be Really helpful, have her go to a Chiropractor. My Father was one, I see one regularly, and when I'm having headaches, body aches, fatigue and even feeling a bit down, it Truly truly does help. You'd be surprised at how much better you and she will feel if you go. It's not quacky science, it's based on the body, just like conventional medicine is. Try it out and see if it doesn't help her.

As for you saying you don't really fantasize about her, give me a break josey LOL... come on now, be honest. Here's an exerpt from your very first post. 


"But the thing is there is this girl who everytime I look toward her I have to look away, because I am afraid that she can see right through me. The type of girl that when I do talk to her she makes me weak in the knees. At the same time I feel so guilty. I can feel the sexual tension between us like a huge weight on my shoulders. I have never felt the way that I feel around her before with my wife or anybody else.

Often I try to avoid her because I am afraid that I will be unable to control myself. I go out with her from time to time with friends and I am afraid to drink, for fear that I will do something stupid. Most nights I dream of her, and quite honestly it is driving me crazy both with guilt and desire."

This is more than you can control, and now you've taken it a step furhter, and are in a sense, courting this woman. 

Having said that, the issues you have with your wife, and being unhappy in the marriage and her being in a rut, albeit harsh and hard to deal with, they don't excuse doing this. This kind of thing is never right, no matter what the circumstances.

You have to get at the root of the problem, with your wife, and work on it, not just let it be and get worse and worse. This problem will not go away, and it will only be complicated and made worse by this relationship with this girl. So, if you want to save your marriage, at least you owe it to your kids to try hard to do so, then you need to sit your wife down and have a long long talk with her.
Tell her she's hurting you, and that you want to know what each of you can do, to bring back the love, spark, and to help her become a responsible Mom again. 

As for the stay at home mom thing,,, I know how hard it is, cause that's what I do, and i only have one little one at home, the other one is 11 and in school. And I'm even exhausted at the end of the day. So, she might just be so worn out, that she's shut down emotionally, physically, and can't get herself out of it. Please try to empathize with her, having kids with you all day, an no other adult contact for the most part, and having them scream, and cry, and need your constant attention, is so mind bogglingly tiring. 

True, not all women, or men, do it well. But maybe she feels she's doing the best she can, with what her mental state is right now. You've got to get her some help, if all the things you say are true, she's crying out for you to help pick her back up, she's fallen and needs you. 

I hope you two can work it out. Just try to stay away from this girl, use your will power. Work on your marriage with your wife. And at least if it doesn't work out, you will always know you gave it your all. But seeing this girl, thinking about her, will only cloud the feelings you have for your wife, and also cloud your judgment. It feels good, but as you say, it will not end up any different if you leave your wife, and be with this girl. All marriages and relationships take work, All of them...


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## joseywales (Mar 14, 2009)

Talking - er writing this out has been so helpful to me.

All that stuff about my wife just kind of came out while I was typing. Im starting to realize that it is not this girl at all. It is my desire to escape from my current life. She is merely the physical manifestation of that desire.

Its funny that you mention the chriporator I suggested the very same thing to my wife this morning, and she has been complaining of pain.

Believe me with my wife we have tried it all, the depression is nothing new she has been that way for years and years. It has gotten much much worse since about the middle of her last pregnancy. At first I wrote it off on hormones, then PPD but it has been a year now and things are only getting worse.

We have tried every drug on the market, some help for a short time some make things worse. The most recent great idea from the doctor was to stop using the generic ones and use the name brand ones. I said but I though there was no difference, that they are the same thing and only quacks thought there was a difference, and now you are suggesting there is a difference? Needless to say I had the doctor backed into the corner on that one, and it is a whole different thread. In the end though after fighting for months with the insurance company (who obviously claim there is no difference) we re-started the merry go round of drugs this time on the name brand versions.

Dont get me wrong I am not now trying to point the finger at my wife. Im just trying to be honest. All the time my wife says I she feels like I just want her to pop her happy pills and go on like nothing is wrong. Truth is - That is what I want. I just want her to do whatever it takes to carry her part of the responsibilities in our marriage. I dont care how she does it, she doesn't care how I do it just as long as my part is taken care of, and why should she? Does the wideout care what the quarterback has to do to get him the ball, or does he simply care about getting the ball so that he can do his job.

My problem is as follows. What if I am tired of helping her. IS that wrong. Why cant she just pick herself up. Nobody picks me up. I have gotten to the point that I dread seeing her, and for the last few months I sleep in the recliner downstairs, when I can get away with it. And yes I will admit it, sometimes I hide at the office.

If you where to ask her she would give you a million reasons why it is my fault. Including my personal favorites He GETS to go to work everyday and He GETS to go on business trips. How the hell do you GET to go to work? Its not a freaking vacation.

She has struggled with this her whole life long before I met her, so how can it be my fault. I told her obviously the problem is with her since she has had this problem her whole life, how can I possibly do anything to help? The problem is in her head! Im sure you can imagine how well that went over, but it is true.

Marina, you have helped me to realize though that this girl is merely clouding my judgement, and giving me a temporary break from the real world while I live in fantasy land. You are right I must deal with the root problem at home, and what I am doing now only complicates those issue and probably will send my wife unfairly into a deeper depression.


Thank you so much for taking the time to listen (as it were) and to respond.


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Well, I think you're right, this girl is the manifestation of your wanting to find some peace and happiness instead of chaos and your wife's depression. 

Well, if she has been depressed her whole life, then there might even be a personality disorder going on, such as bi-polar or something? 

Remember, that a marriage is always a thing of perspective. You see the main cause of the problems as her, she sees the main cause of the problems in the marriage as you. Who is right? Who knows, probably neither one of you. If she's this depressed, then I know from friends who have spouses like that, that it is very difficult to live with someone like that. However, does that mean you're totally blameless? Of course not, it always takes two to make a marriage successful, and happy.

Think back to when you were dating, or when you first got married, and write down all the things about her that you loved then, and also write down the things about her that you love now. 

Also, write down the things about her that you can't handle, and that you need to see changed. Ask Her to do the same.... this is not just about her, and her flaws, it's both of you. Even if you're less to blame because you have been shouldering all the burden and are more responsible, she still might have things she wants you to work on, and even if you don't agree, know that this is what she's "feeling" so therefore, it's at least worth listening to. 

Get into marital counseling, pronto!  You seem very sensible, and seem to have a good idea of what the issues are in the marriage that are causing so much heartache for both of you. 

How many kids do you have? I know you said twins, is that it? 

To answer your question, no, it's not wrong of you to be tired of helping her, everyone has their point, at which they are so exhausted from working to make a marriage happy, and getting nothing back, that they begin to become apathetic. 

But, for some reason, I think you still love your wife. And remember, love is not a feeling, it's not a passing breeze that we hope lands on us, and then disappears without our permission.

Love is a choice, it's something that you just choose to do. In that regard, when feelings start to wane, because of lack of excitement, the burdon of caring for a wife who is mentally not always stable, and work, and money, bills.... that is when you have to make the choice, to love, no matter what. 

Does that mean you just keep this up forever, and never think of your own happiness? No, of course not, if you did that, you'd eventually be dead inside.

But, until you've exhausted all avenues of trying to fix it, of trying to get her to snap out of her world, then it's not time to go yet. This is even more true, since you have children. Marriages can, and do come back from this type of despair. Love takes a lot of work, and so does living with a lifelong partner. 

At least you know that this other girl at your work, is only your hearts way of crying out for some attention, some stability, some reassurance in your role as a man, and provider. She makes you feel like a man, like you're on top of the world. But, remember, she's not married to you/ nor you to her. Your wife has been the one living with you, day to day, having your children, she knows you like no other ever will, she sees the good, and the bad. Just as you see those in her. 

So this girl, is only a fleeting thought, because you're so tired of feeling like you have save your wife, instead of having a healthy marriage, where there is a mutually satisfying friendship and sexual relationship. You can get that back again. Will for sure? Who knows, perhaps not, and it might end up not working, and you will go your separate ways. But it shouldn't be because you see a pretty girl at work that makes you feel validated. 

Think about what you need to do , to get your life, and your wife's life, where you want it. Talk to her, tell her you are being sucked dry and can't stand much more of it. Tell her it's time to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. And really try to see this from her point of view, even if you don't agree, and even if she's overlooking how much her depression has damaged you and your marriage. Let a therapist tell her that, with you there. 

Keep us updated.


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## Ted (Mar 2, 2009)

Josey,

I so understand the pain of depression. Early in our marriage, my wife had clinical depression. It was hard for several years. We even became co-dependent. I would "take care" of her and that just made it even worse, because it just reinforced her lack of energy or ability to change.

I understand about the medication, but don't give up. But I would really suggest that she needs intense therapy. Marital counseling would be great for you too, but personal counseling is a definite need for her depression. That's what helped my wife. The meds are just a crutch to help during the worst. They seldom fix the problem. There are always causes/issues/patterns/habits, something that is the underlying reason for the depression. It will take a lot of work, but it can be found and overcome.

You said, "this girl is merely clouding my judgement, and giving me a temporary break from the real world while I live in fantasy land." I'm glad you now realize that the OW was just a fantasy.
Don't get caught in this fantasy world. Keep working at it. And be honest with your wife. Tell her this is wearing you down too. 

I wish you the best. Like Marina said, Keep us updated.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Josey, How long with your wife?

What happened to your passion??

Do you go on Date nights with your wife?

you are missing the passion and the fun with you wife.

Are you still physically attracted to your wife?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

A born skeptic myself, I have to say that YES, there is a difference in generic vs name brand meds. I did forensic computer work on a HUGE case a few years ago. A shocking amount of generic meds have only a fraction (some less than 3%) of the actual medicine it says on the label. It's being hushed up right now but you can still find info on it. 

As for the depression - Most of my life i've been exactly like you - get stressed or depressed, I just work HARDER. Push thru, get it done. 

Over the last six months, i've been battling a HUGE bout of can't do anything depression tho. The lack of being able to just push thru this scares the heck out of me. 

But I can see myself getting a tiny bit better. No meds (other than insane amounts of caffeine and six hour energy drinks.) I don't have any insurance (thanks America) so I can't afford therapy or happy pills. I've had to work this out myself. 

I slept for almost a month every chance I got - but then made myself clean just the master bedroom and bath (long story there) and shower every day. You have no idea how hard that is when you are totally depressed!

I would light candles in the evening in my "clean room" and just chill out to music. It sure helped me. Suggest to her that she make a haven - NO kids (I have six including a baby and a 5 yr old) where she can take a break from everything. 

Have her limit her PC use - it's a tool, not a crutch (I had to put that on a sticky note on my monitor) and start taking care of herself in tiny ways. 

For a while you may have to help her in the evenings (I know you are exhausted) to give her time to clean and chill. Let her do this for a few weeks and see if it helps. 

Take the kids on the weekends for a whole day outing. Good for you and the kids and give your wife a break. 

Did she like to cook? or is there something she was happy and proud of doing when she was feeling better? Suggest when you take the kids that she might like to do that, but that you understand if she doesn't. 

I'm branching out this month into doing more things for myself although I still score a (get thyself to the hospital) on the depression tests. But I CAN do this. She needs hope, a light at the end of the tunnel.

I wish you luck -


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## Blue (Mar 17, 2009)

Whatever you do, do NOT tell this other girl how you feel, all that will do is open the door for something to happen. Also, think of this way, this so called 'friend' of yours KNOWS you're married with children, yet she might be willing to help you cheat on your wife?

Focus that energy into your wife. Try to go to counselling with your wife and do date nights again. Get a sitter and go out, even if it's just a walk around the neighbourhood. You're looking for attention from another woman (yes it feels good, but it's a total ego feed) and creating MORE problems in your marriage and the more you do that, the more you'll detach from your wife, become more attached to the OW.

Your wife needs to seek counselling for her depression, maybe be on medication as well.. 

Be a good father, be a supportive husband and try to fix your marriage instead of looking elsewhere.


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## bounty (Mar 17, 2009)

this is normal. Don't tell your wife, it'll just hurt her and make her feel bad whilst making you feel better, assauge your guilt. But as long as you don't act on it, you have nothing to feel guilty about. I don't think humans were made to be monogamous, we're all attracted to other people at some point in our relationships. I think acting on these feelings makes the other person in the relationship feel insecure and unloved, yet it is a normal part of our being. Maybe it is society that has made it unacceptable? I don't know the answer to that one yet, just don't tell your wife.


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## Chris H. (Jan 27, 2007)

Off topic posts moved here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/politics-religion/4662-universal-healthcare.html


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