# so lost and confuse



## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

I don't want to go into details about what my wife did. Bottom line is she had a 6 month affair 4 years ago with a friend of ours. They called it off on their own and I was none the wiser. We moved out of state about 1.5 years ago. This last summer when she went home she reached out to him again. Supposedly nothing physically happened, though they were up to all hours texting and talking on the phone. During this 1 month visit home while I was back in our new state and home she told me she wanted a divorce. Though I knew things were not going the best for us I was completely broadsided. I flew out the next day and tried to sit with her and reason with her. Finally I got out of her that she had had an EA with him and she was done being miserable in our marriage and wanted to pursue a relationship where she would be happy. Over a series of events during the next week she decided she would stay and we would get counseling when we returned from vacation. Once home I confronted her. I told her it was time to be 100% honest and tell me everything. At that point she told me she had a 6 month A 4 years ago.
It has now been 6 weeks since DDay. We are in counseling and working towards saving our marriage. We have been married 18 years now and have 4 children, who we don't think know anything. 
I love my wife to death. I do see the remorse and she is working her tail off to prove to me how sorry she is and how much she wants to make this work. I don't know if I can do this. I know this is a roller coaster of emotions and feelings. But every time I kiss her, or touch her or her me thoughts of him pop into my head. She keeps encouraging me to talk to her about how I am feeling. She tells me to let it rip, tear into her, let it out. At the same time I don't want to. We have had a very rough marriage and there has been so much hurt. I am so tired of the hurt. I am so tired of beating each other up. That is how we ended up in this place to begin with, never letting go, always trying to one up the other one until finally one of us took that fatal step. I am done with hurting each other, aside from the fact that there is nothing I can do to her at this point to one-up her, I am just done causing pain. I want to move forward and heal. I want to rebuild. 
Here is the problem though. I cant deal with the thoughts of them together. I cant deal with trying to be intimate or just affectionate and seeing him there, thinking about everything she has done with him. Knowing that she gave herself to him. How do I get past this? Will these thoughts ever be gone? I don't know if I can do this for the rest of my life. It scares me because I have no desire to leave her. I love her and know that this is where I want to be. I see what she is doing and how hard she is working to make us better. We are better relationship wise than we have been since we got married. 
Do these thoughts ever go away? How do you get past them? Does this ever heal? Or do I just have to deal with this for the rest of my marriage? I just want to wake up from this nightmare.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Only you can tell the answer to those questions....years from now.

Each person is different. Some people can get past it, and some can't. I know myself, I could never get past it. I'd always have those thoughts.

Others can compartmentalize and put it away.

I wish you luck.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

This is tough to live with, I have the same issues with my wife's A. I still have the mind movies and the anger at times but it keeps getting to be less and less of a problem. 

Part of your issues is that you have this hidden. Your wife tells you to let her have it OK. Does her family know about the A did you expose to the OM's wife, GF, Family. If no that could be part of your hang up. You are sucking it in. Did your wife get checked for STD's, I know it was a few years ago but that still should be done. Has she answered all your questions in the detail you require?

I know from experience if you do not get these things done it will keep causing you pain and problems.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

most of my questions have been answered. There are always more questions. But I also know there are some that I just don't want to know nor need to know. Unfortunately I don't compartmentalize, I obsess. I am trying to forgive and move on. But it keeps coming back up. He was such a part of our life for the last 10 years that everything is a reminder. No one knows except for a very few select people I have told. She has never told anyone and she never will, mostly out of shame. I don't want to tell anyone more. I see no point in it. It will only cause more stress, resentment, and continue to tear us both of down out of humiliation and anger. She used everyone around her to facilitate her A. Including dropping off our kids at my parents house to facilitate her meetings. I just don't see any advantage to telling anyone more. We have our network of people supporting us and encouraging us to work through it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

I think that with time it will eventually be like any traumatic experience we have in life.

It becomes less a present reality in our lives, but you will be forever changed by it. 

Its like a combat veteran. What they experienced has forever changed them. They are no longer the same person, and sometimes those emotions will come to the surface and have to be dealt with.

But as time goes on, the frequency of these episodes will probably decrease.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

You don't "get past it". It is now part of who you are. That is reality. What you can do, however, is to move on and be happy in life for yourself on your own terms. In your situation that will best be served without her.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Typically exposure is to end the A. It seems your wife ended it (IMO).

You can get past it but it takes work. And I am not sure that you will ever forget it.

Forgiveness can come but again that takes work as well.

Your wife telling you to let it rip, etc. Let me say that there are ways for both of you to discuss these things in a better more productive way then "let it rip". Responding to your wife in anger is not productive at this point. But to let her know your feelings, thoughts, etc is fair and I believe is productive. To let her know the hurt, pain, doubt, anxiety, I do believe is productive and to allow her to help you heal is productivie and helpful.

My wife and I have been in R since May, and we had a false R from November 2011 till April of 2013, which sucked.

You can do it. It is hard work, but a lot of the healing I will say came from my wife helping me and it is still continuing.

Mind movies are about the worst thing I can think of about the truth comes out, but you can work through those as well.

Not everyone does make it but if you really do love you wife like you say, through love you can make it. I do believe that love conquers all. If you wife is true, repentive, remorseful, then I will say beyond a shadow of doubt that you can make it.

Don't look at today as a gauge of whether you can make it. I would set a time of say, January 2014. And see where you are then. Try to make it to January, don't worry about emotional set backs that come up, they will my friend and some will hit you hard and at the most inconveint time.

If your wife is true and you do love her, then give it more time.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

lostnsad said:


> Do these thoughts ever go away? How do you get past them? Does this ever heal? Or do I just have to deal with this for the rest of my marriage? I just want to wake up from this nightmare.


To your questions. I can only speak as a BS two years post Dday.

1) The thoughts haven't gone away yet, but they are less frequent and less intense.

2) I don't think any BS can get completely past these type of thoughts.

3) Heal? I'm not sure how to define that, but the best you can hope for is that the wound scars over. But every time you look at the scar, you're reminded of what happened.

4) Yes you will have to deal with this for the rest of your marriage. The thoughts may subside but they'll never completely go away. That doesn't mean you can't have a successful R though. Only you can answer the question of whether they become manageable enough for you to keep going.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

lostnsad said:


> I don't want to go into details about what my wife did. Bottom line is she had a 6 month affair 4 years ago with a friend of ours. They called it off on their own and I was none the wiser. We moved out of state about 1.5 years ago. This last summer when she went home she reached out to him again. Supposedly nothing physically happened, though they were up to all hours texting and talking on the phone. During this 1 month visit home while I was back in our new state and home she told me she wanted a divorce. Though I knew things were not going the best for us I was completely broadsided. I flew out the next day and tried to sit with her and reason with her. Finally I got out of her that she had had an EA with him and she was done being miserable in our marriage and wanted to pursue a relationship where she would be happy. Over a series of events during the next week she decided she would stay and we would get counseling when we returned from vacation. Once home I confronted her. I told her it was time to be 100% honest and tell me everything. At that point she told me she had a 6 month A 4 years ago.
> *It has now been 6 weeks since DDay*. We are in counseling and working towards saving our marriage. We have been married 18 years now and have 4 children, who we don't think know anything.
> I love my wife to death. I do see the remorse and she is working her tail off to prove to me how sorry she is and how much she wants to make this work. I don't know if I can do this. I know this is a roller coaster of emotions and feelings. But every time I kiss her, or touch her or her me thoughts of him pop into my head. She keeps encouraging me to talk to her about how I am feeling. She tells me to let it rip, tear into her, let it out. At the same time I don't want to. We have had a very rough marriage and there has been so much hurt. I am so tired of the hurt. I am so tired of beating each other up. That is how we ended up in this place to begin with, never letting go, always trying to one up the other one until finally one of us took that fatal step. I am done with hurting each other, aside from the fact that there is nothing I can do to her at this point to one-up her, I am just done causing pain. I want to move forward and heal. I want to rebuild.
> Here is the problem though. I cant deal with the thoughts of them together. I cant deal with trying to be intimate or just affectionate and seeing him there, thinking about everything she has done with him. Knowing that she gave herself to him. How do I get past this? Will these thoughts ever be gone? I don't know if I can do this for the rest of my life. It scares me because I have no desire to leave her. I love her and know that this is where I want to be. I see what she is doing and how hard she is working to make us better. *We are better relationship wise than we have been since we got married*.
> Do these thoughts ever go away? How do you get past them? Does this ever heal? Or do I just have to deal with this for the rest of my marriage? I just want to wake up from this nightmare.


I agree with the posts already given. They are on the mark.

Here is a little different take on it using the bolded parts as discussion points...

You are expecting too much too soon. Six weeks past d-day, and you are looking for peace and a R.

I tried to put things past me in a similar way. It really is next to impossible to skip the steps of grief. We so want to accept the past, that we short change ourselves. We deny ourselves the choice to feel the things associated with the betrayal.

In other words, you can really decided to R until you have processed it for a longer time.

Don't get into a trap of making yourself R in a short time frame. There is no time limit on your choice.

The "why" of the affair can make us crazy. I think you should be focused on the "why" part of saving the marriage instead.

Why keep a wife that you can't trust? Why keep a marriage that clearly has been one-sided?

I know it has more to do with the kids and/or the money. Been there.

Hope you do find peace. It is the worst time in life for most of us.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am not convinced the A is really closed. She took a trip back home and talked with him. Well maybe they did have sex and maybe the did not. The exposure is to make sure there is a stake in the heart of the A. In my mind there is a doubt the A is truly over. As for the POS if he is married his bs deserves to know as well. 

I would give that more thought. She will never travel back home again with out you? You need to make sure the A is dead. I tried the route of taking the high road does not work and again causes more pain.

if the POS your wife slept with has no problems in his life he will go back fishing for her in the future. You do not need that.

The A did not end four years ago it was going on last summer as either and EA or a PA. I would not believe that last summer they just talked. Sounds like a lot of BS

I hope you guys do R but she only is going to respect you if she thinks you are willing to end the marriage and you cannot be a nice guy. You need to be Alpha and take charge


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

can't LOL! typos suck


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Brother,

First of all, I am sorry you are here. Second of all, be very vigilant. I hope you can reconcile, but so many people here have gone through false reconciliations.

She seems to be doing the heavy lifting and transparency needed for R but remember she is an accomplished liar. She was leading a double life for a long time and letting you believe she was being faithful which was not the case.

Her Affair was HER fault. It was no one else's. She cheated on you for the simple reason she wanted to. Remember that. She could very well do it again so you will always be vigilant.

The feelings and memories never go away, but they will lessen in time. It is almost 2 years from my DDay and I have pretty well moved on. Everyone is different.

Right now, focus on what you really want to do with your life. Write a bucket list and start doing those things. Focus on the positive. If you have anger, the gym is a great place for it. It does wonders in may ways.

A Heavy bag is a good alternative to getting in trouble with the law.

You cannot have your old marriage back. It was destroyed. You can have a new one where you are not so blind in love and you pay attention more. R will be hard and the chances of you doing it instead of D are not that great. However if you BOTH and I mean BOTH work hard toward it, life will get better. Do NOT assume she has quit her Affair with him because she is being nice.

You may have hard feelings toward her but let her know you love her and hold her accountable. Don't be too mushy here. She lost respect for you to have an Affair and you need her to respect you if you will R. Be strong, not overbearing but don't put up with any crap from her and demand nicely she be transparent in all things.

I would snoop on her. Don't for one instance think she is doing the hard work. Cheaters often pretend to R while they figure an exit strategy. Trust but Verify.

I wish you well and hope that you will have a successful R. God bless brother.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

lostnsad said:


> No one knows except for a very few select people I have told. She has never told anyone and she never will, mostly out of shame. I don't want to tell anyone more.* I see no point in it. It will only cause more stress, resentment, and continue to tear us both of down out of humiliation and anger. She used everyone around her to facilitate her A. Including dropping off our kids at my parents house to facilitate her meetings.*_ I just don't see any advantage to telling anyone more. _


LNS

I respect your decision here... but, always the but... 

Her affair(s) are the 800lb monkey always lurking in the corner of your marriage. By keeping it a secret from family, she really has never had to "own it" as her fault, her decision, her betrayal. Therefore, you are left pretty much alone to deal with it, analysis it, live every day with it in the back of your mind. 

I myself am 4+ years out from my wife affairs and DD. She was also very ashamed and wanted to keep it a secret from everyone. I told her I would not live that way around family with this secret. Either she told the truth or I would not stay. No more secrets.

BTW, when she left for a month to visit "family" she met with "Him" and they had sex again. When she requested a divorce, she was replacing you. You like every other betrayed spouse wants to paint the best from the worst possible situation. I did too. It's a survivable mechanism wired innately.

Hear a truth... Regarding cheaters, there is always more than admitted to. Fact.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I agree that it is quite likely that she resumed the physical affair when she went back again and then asked you for a divorce. A woman with children would not ask for a divorce from you unless the affair was physical again.
1. You need to get tested for STD's
2. Since she has the affair 4 years ago and recently is it possible that she could have gotten pregnant from him? If a child fits the time line then you need for them to get tested for paternity.

You seem awfully forgiving. She cheats on you for a period of time with your good friend 4 years ago and goes back and continues to cheat on you and then asks for a divorce.
I sense that you are one of the good guys and she knows that even with you knowing about her sexual affair you would never divorce her so really she had nothing to lose.

She truly humiliated and disrespected you in the worst possible way with a good friend which is a double betrayal. If the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would have been so forgiving and accepting as you have been? Nobody and I mean nobody respects a doormat. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change down the line. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck to you.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Make sure not to rugsweep. You have to earn a true reconciliation and that takes time.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

And if she senses you are too willing to forgive, she'll be tempted to do it again.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

I understand what many of you are saying about being a door mat. This is one of my biggest fears that she is just playing the game, the last four years of our lives have been a complete lie. The return to him this summer concerns me greatly as this tells me she was not sorry the first time and that she was seeking to reconcile with him. This is a discussion we will be having tonight. She needs to be honest with herself and me about what she was trying to do. She still has not come to grips with how long the EA went on before the PA. I believe it was years she says only a couple months at the most. As for the truth I know she is hiding stuff. But I do believe that she has been honest in all of the questions I have directly answered. Again my fear is that she will do this again. I have little to no faith in her at this point. I don't trust her at all. If it wasn't for the fact that we are so far removed from where it happened I wouldn't let her out of my site. As for her facing the fire with family, I have often thought that myself. She only had to deal with myself and 2 other people. I don't know that involving any one else serves a purpose. But as usual she gets to play the perfect wife in front of everyone else. And yes this bothers me. But again, I don't see how telling everyone will help us move forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP, there is no room for secrets in a healthy marriage. That is a cancer to your relationship with your spouse. Do not confuse secrecy with privacy (personal grooming, etc).


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

lostnsad said:


> I cant deal with trying to be intimate or just affectionate and seeing him there, thinking about everything she has done with him. Knowing that she gave herself to him. How do I get past this?


Two things Dawg. 1. You have no choice but to deal with it. 2. He didn't do anything that you can't or haven't done.
Since no physical damage done during their get togethers, your biggest concern should be if they were getting together since the purported 4 year hiatus. If she reached out, spent time with this dude, and asked you for a divorce, I have mind movies seeing them together. 
What's worse is the likelihood she's back with you because her plan to sail off into the sunset with this character fell through and you're the fall back guy. Women don't get back with their boyfriends (prior or current), ask for a divorce so they can find a relationship they like, and change their mind to become the model wife in a week. When a woman says she wants to leave you to find a person to make her happy, it means she has already found that person my man.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

MY firt though, beyond trying to get the treal truth from her is about whas really going on untill she decided to recommit is... exactly this, her real reasons to recommit. My guess is OM dumped her or made himself unaviable for a the future he promised her for so long once he realized things got really serious.

What reasons did she give for changing her mind from D to R?


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

She is using your fear of exposure and embaressment against you. And you need to dissect why you are so willing to take her back at all. She knows most men would not. And she does not admire you for it. Because if she admired or respected you she would not have done this to begin with.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

The way I understand it, you and your wife have been beating each other up trying to get one up one each other and you said that it has been a rough marriage. With that said, it seems to me that you would be willing to settle for a rough relationship with your wife rather than no relationship at all. So you have to take a time out from all of this and if need be, take a weekend by yourself to think and ask yourself if this is the way you want the rest of your life to be.

Would you be better off living on your own, single and having a clear vision of your life or stay in a marriage that is built on a shaky foundation. You already said that you can't or your having a hard time dealing with her affair and you don't trust her.

You have four kids. You think they can't see that you and your wife aren't real happy? If not then your not giving the kids any credit. They know that Mom and Dad aren't happy. 

If you decide to end it, you won't be divorcing your kids. As long as they know you love them and will always be there fro them, they can adjust. All in all if you weren't happy prior to the affair, what makes you think your going to be any happier with the knowledge that she had an affair. All that affair will be is one more problem that up to this point you didn't need. Think about it. I wish you the best.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

ThePheonix said:


> * When a woman says she wants to leave you to find a person to make her happy, it means she has already found that person my man.*


LnS,

We here at CWI are not trying to beat you up, or forcing you into dumping your wife... 

Far from it. This place is about "Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity." from the homepage. 

However... we are about Truth. I have been where you are, many of the long timers here the same. If anything "we" have learned, if you rug-sweep early after DD you will regret it as the months... years roll along. 

We can tell (understand) you want to forgive, forget, and re-join your marriage prior to adultery as quick as possible, but it just don't work that way. Your wife, has broken the trust, given herself willingly to another, kick you to the curb, if she is to regain her place by your side she has to come clean and admit everything, no more lies. If she doesn't, you will be playing the guessing mind game for years to come. 

It's time to cut bait or fish, your choice.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

One more time. Is their a remote possibility based on the time line that any of your children could be that of the OM?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"As for her facing the fire with family, I have often thought that myself. She only had to deal with myself and 2 other people. I don't know that involving any one else serves a purpose."

OP, 

Do not underestimate the power of exposure to wreck an A and change the situation immensely.

Exposure will finally give your WW a real consequence for what she has chosen to do.

She keeps it secret from both of your families because she knows the shame it will bring her if she is known to be an unfaithful spouse.

Stop helping her hide what she has truly become. 

Make her live the reality of her choices.

I doubt she will find the A or POS anywhere near as appealing if she has angry family members grilling her about wtf she has been doing.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Why did she hook-up with him again---she obviously has not got him out of her mind---and your problem is you may be 2nd best to her lover----you probably have been 2nd best the whole time-----if she can't get him out of her psyche---your mge will fail, as it is not a mge, but a 3some

She may be doing her dam*est to fix this, but the question you really need an answer to is why is she working so hard

is it for the kids, and when the last kid leaves ---she will then be gone

is it cuz you are her bank---I E she can't make it on her own---and he isn't gonna provide for her---so even tho you are sloppy 2nds---you are it---whether she loves you or not

That brings us to the question of love----how much does she really love you----for the last 4 yrs or longer---SHE HAS NOT LOVED YOU---HE HAS BEEN HER H---HE HAS REPLACED YOU

She has come home every night for the last 4 to 5 yrs---and looked you in the eyes, and said everything was OK---this is carrying on her A---by LIES OF OMMISSION

Can you really get over this---knowing what you know---and even worse facing the trigger in front of you day after day---for it is her, your wife, and she willingly/happily/ did to you, via manipulation/deceit, the total destruction of your heart and soul---------had she put the effort into her mge she put into deceiving you---your mge may have been much different 4 yrs ago

What is gonna happen, the next time there are problems, or a rift---right now, she is trying to save the mge---BUT WHY IS SHE TRYING TO SAVE THE MGE---her actions, 4 yrs ago, and recently---show her lover has taken her from you---how long do you have her for---till he crooks his fingers to her, and says---I want you---and she runs to him, via more deceit and lies

If you R this mge---make sure she signs a POST--NUP, with a DURESS CLAUSE


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

We had a talk about this summer last night. *I made her dig deep and admit that there was at last an emotional affair. *I don't think she really admitted that to get self or me until now. *So that is progress. *The AP did not turn his back on her. *When she initiated NC he tried to convince her that she should leave me. *That she deserves to be happy, and even though they never discussed getting back together it was in the back of both their minds as she started the EA and discussing D with me. *I'm not a fool and I completely understand that part. *I also have very big reservations concerning the last four years and how she could possibly be sorry for what she did but still go back to EA this summer and play me for the fool for the last 4 years. *This scares me, a lot. I will continue to drag stuff out of her. *the issue she has is she buries these things that she doesn't like to think about. *Unless someone, me, makes her actually think about it she won't. *There is no doubt I love my wife.**As for the one up stuff there were never instances where you did this so I'm doing that. *It was always holding stuff over each other's heads. *Trying to get our needs filled out of guilt rather than love.*As for the children, they are all mine. *As for OM, he is a thirty-something fat pos living in his mom's basement who does nothing but go out and have fun. *No responsibilities no real life, nothing. She will not go back to him.*As for telling everyone. *I just don't see the point. *I know I would be humbled, but it would real havoc on her and my family. *She didn't do this to them. *She did it to me. This is our relationship, not theirs. *I see no need to air our laundry. Right now they are not hurt, so why do that to them.*Bottom line is I have not been a good husband. *I have neglected her emotionally for years. *However, there is no way I deserved this and she knows that. *But I will not give up yet. *But I will also not settle for half truths. *
So my next question. *Do I force out all the details? *EVERYTHING. *I think I can handle it. *More for the fact that I want her to face what she did than because I want to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> So my next question. *Do I force out all the details? *EVERYTHING. *I think I can handle it. *More for the fact that I want her to face what she did than because I want to know.



Why bother? She will not tell the complete truth. There are no consequences to deal with and no exposure to fear. She lied to your face then and its just as easy to lie to your face now.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

lostnsad said:


> **I see no need to air our laundry. *
> 
> So my next question. *Do I force out all the details? *EVERYTHING. *I think I can handle it.
> 
> **More for the fact that I want her to face what she did than because I want to know.*


LnS,

I too wanted my fww to "face what she did". I understand your desire to keep the matter close to home, but honestly, my wife sitting down in front of her parents and admitting to her years of unfaithfulness and the barrage of questions was the strongest wake up call she every had.

Point... The exposure is not for you, not about vengeance, or getting even... It is about her living in reality, no more lies. If you are afraid she will bolt out of shame, she is already gone.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I agree the exposure is not for you but to actually help her realise what she has done and continues to do in her mind at least. It will help kill the affair and hopefully start to remove her from any misplaced notions of romance that is not real also known as the fog. I know that it will be humbling but IMO very helpful in general.

I would want to know all the details and I agree with you in that getting her to admit them, will also be helpful to her. The problem is how do you get all the info, she may never tell you the complete truth. This is why the folks on this board give the advice they give. Good luck and stay strong.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Exposing to anyone else at this point (IMO) is not needed if the A is over. It is a shame that you have to drag stuff out of her. I do understand her reluctance at bringing stuff up but if she is not willingly answering your questions that would be a concern for me.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Is failure to expose rug sweeping at this point? It depends on the level of remorse. Since the OM is no impressive figure, OP may wish to leave him in peace. Not all in-laws can deal with an affair. OP may not wish to share this. However, going this route requires that WW commit herself to R.

Beside a time line of the affair, OP might ask his wife if she thinks the affair has caused a wound that will fester and poison their marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Exposing to anyone else at this point (IMO) is not needed if the A is over. It is a shame that you have to drag stuff out of her. I do understand her reluctance at bringing stuff up but if she is not willingly answering your questions that would be a concern for me.


I disagree completely, you really do not know that the A is over because you have not exposed the A and you do not know what would happen if that POS lived close by.

You have to realize that your old marriage is dead. Your wife killed it when she spread her legs for another man. ( I have lived through this) The perfect wife needs to get knocked down and fight to rebuild a new marriage with you. The only way that is going to happen and the only way you will get close to the real truth as to what happened is to light a fire.

Expose the A if you can to that POS's family and to yours and hers. She has to believe you are willing to walk if you do not get complete remorse and the whole truth. I am sorry I do not believe she was back home for a month and she only talked with him. 

A's only end if there is shock and awe. You have to be very Alpha here. You expose and tell her you are ready to throw her out if she does not do the following

1. NC letter to the other man you get to mail
2. STD test and you get the results.
3. MC for you both and IC for her and maybe you.
4. All passwords and access to her phone when ever you want.
5. No trip home again ever unless you are there with her.

By the way being tough does not mean being and Ahole it just means not more BS and no more you trying to take the high road.

By the way she will blow up at you for the exposure. This means she cares more about him and herself then you and your marriage. She will get over it. If she does blow up just point at the door and tell her to go. 

Once you have shown her you are willing to lose her and she believes you. Then and only then can you work on rebuilding the marriage.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

mahike said:


> I disagree completely, you really do not know that the A is over because you have not exposed the A and you do not know what would happen if that POS lived close by.
> 
> You have to realize that your old marriage is dead. Your wife killed it when she spread her legs for another man. ( I have lived through this) The perfect wife needs to get knocked down and fight to rebuild a new marriage with you. The only way that is going to happen and the only way you will get close to the real truth as to what happened is to light a fire.
> 
> ...


Thinking back when my wife had the EA in 2010 my IC told me my wife would do it again and go PA if a guy lived local, and it happened just as my counselor said. So perhaps exposing is the way to go. In my case it would have brought more eyes on the situation and perhaps the PA would have never happened if my wife would have been questioned as to what she was doing, where she was going, etc, if more family members would have known.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

And what about transparency from her going forward to prove to you that she isn't still in contact with him?

Have you found how they communicate? Phone? Skype? Text? Email.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

I don't see the point in coming out. I see the remorsefulness in her now. I think she understands what she has done. I do not think that now is the time to face her or my family. If this is something that needs to be done at a later time we can discuss. We had a long conversation concerning wanting to get every detail. I don't feel a need personally to get this information. I don't see how that will help. I did however ask her to write down every detail. Though she was willing to do it I rescinded the request realizing that it was merely vindictive and a form of torture for her. even though she may deserve to suffer, I am done with the pain. I just want to be able to put this behind us and move forward with healing and R. I don't know how to do that without just letting this go and forgiving her. I just don't know how to forgive this. I know I want to. I know I want to live the rest of my life with her. I am trying not to rug sweep here, but I want the hurt to go away. Every time it comes up it renews the pain and destruction. I think I handle things in a decent manner. I do bury some things at times, but if they keep coming up I do address them with her. I don't see the point in constantly beating her up. I don't see how that helps the healing. I fear that there are times when I want to bring things up and realize it is out of vengeance and wanting to cause hurt. Not to put my mind at ease or put something to rest. Constantly hurting each other is how we got here. just want to be happy. I just want to love my wife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The woman I married and fell in love with so many years ago. The one has endured so many things together with me. I just want it to go away. 

And no, none of the children are his. the youngest is 7.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> And what about transparency from her going forward to prove to you that she isn't still in contact with him?
> 
> Have you found how they communicate? Phone? Skype? Text? Email.


they are not in contact any more. She made the NC call before she revealed the PA but after the EA about 8 weeks ago. I have certain access to both of their records if need be. At this time I firmly believe the A is over. She told me last night she hates him. I know that may seem extreme but I have ben asking her about her feelings since DD and I have noticed they have been fading extremely fast. on NC call he tried to guilt her into leaving me still and she flat out told him she was done with him. I think she sees him for what he truly is at this point and have little to no concern of her going back to him, as long as we can R. if we cant R then I really don't care how she chooses to destroy her life nor will I have any input anyway.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

lostnsad said:


> I don't see the point in coming out. I see the remorsefulness in her now. I think she understands what she has done. I do not think that now is the time to face her or my family. If this is something that needs to be done at a later time we can discuss.
> 
> I just want to love my wife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The woman I married and fell in love with so many years ago. The one has endured so many things together with me. I just want it to go away.
> 
> And no, none of the children are his. the youngest is 7.


The last part first. Assuming she is telling you the truth, then this may be fact. A known fact is that she cheated on you, lied and covered it up (she says it was for a certain period of time, but you will never know the truth as cheater's lie). I hope for your sake you are right in this. 

They ended it and she went back, so I wouldn't trust that it is done and over with. She is covering her tracks. It is good that she is telling you this now, but it sounds like she is more remorseful over her actions and guilty about them and getting caught, but I don't know you, her, or the things that are happening in your M, this is just my observation.

Now for the part about just wanting to love your wife, the person you married long ago. Sorry but that person no longer exists and she is a totally different person, whether you or her want to admit it, and your M is different and will never be the same again.

I wish you luck, but know that rug sweeping will not make it better only prolong the pain when it comes out in the future. Your need to lash out and say things is your hurt coming out. You will need to address this in order to heal, because if you keep pushing these feelings down, eventually it will be a watch pot boiling over (and the results will not be good). A M needs a strong foundation to build off of, and one that has just swept aside infidelity will be visiting issues again soon (she cheated and had a LTA, then went back years later, so she has proven herself a serial cheater, and liar as she never planned to tell you. Just something to think about.)


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

lostnsad said:


> She told me last night she hates him. I know that may seem extreme but I have ben asking her about her feelings since DD and I have noticed they have been fading extremely fast.


Don't bet on this as this is the way that people deal with these types of emotions is to defer them or aim them differently. Remember hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is. Hate is the same feelings and intensity as love only focused on the negative aspect. My WW told me the same thing after D-Day. How she hated the OM and never wanted to see him the rest of her life. She now admits after over a year that at times she still thinks about him and misses the connections they had (she hasn't acted on those feelings from what I can see through checking, but it is only time before she goes through with it, if she feels the need.) All of our boundaries don't me squat if she has the will and desire. Yours had the desire once, it faded and the A ended, then they started again. History is the only true predictor of your future.

Once again. Good luck.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

bryanp said:


> I agree that it is quite likely that she resumed the physical affair when she went back again and then asked you for a divorce. A woman with children would not ask for a divorce from you unless the affair was physical again.
> 1. You need to get tested for STD's
> 2. Since she has the affair 4 years ago and recently is it possible that she could have gotten pregnant from him? If a child fits the time line then you need for them to get tested for paternity.
> 
> ...


Encapsulated very nicely


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

lostnsad I know you want this to go away and you want to feel better. Please listen to the advice here. Most of us did not take that advice and it blew up in our faces. Cheaters have a play book and your wife while she seems remorseful and she says she hates him now, will still contact him again or allow him to contact her again unless you take steps.

Exposure is not about revenge or punishing your wife it is about nailing a stake in the A and really killing it. Your wife's family will help you make sure she leaves this behind and exposing him makes him run for cover and will distance him from your wife.

I have been married for 31 years and this happened to me. Your wife has to know that you are in control and not passive and not vindictive. I will tell you what is going to happen a few months from now your wife will want to know that she meant something to him and that she was special and not just a good f! She will call him or answer one of his calls.

You have a choice and that is to be Alpha about this. You are not going to rebuild your marriage or fix your wife. She killed them, done and over. What you have a choice of now is rebuilding a new marriage and discovering the new wife. That is hard to take and I know I am being harsh but I see myself in you. I failed and had a false R with my wife. 

Once I exposed it was really dead. The POS ran for cover and tried to save his marriage and his job. My wife all of a sudden wanted our marriage and me very badly when she new I was done with our marriage but that only happened after

I exposed
She saw Divorce papers

Sunlight kills affairs and allows you to rebuild a marriage.

OK so you do not want details but make her give you a timeline of everything.

She made a NC call! No she needs to write a NC letter that she gives you to mail.

Also you need to write a letter to him. All the things you feel, hurt about and want to scream about. Then read it to her.

At this point there is going to be yelling and crying. It has to be done to start again.

If you go passive, do not want to discuss, do not expose, You are going to keep suffering and for a much longer time.

Cheaters have a playbook, she is following it and you are playing defense and not offense. The A will win if you stay passive.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

So I am trying to do this right. I don't know what that is. I don't know what emotions I should be feeling at this point. I have dealt with hurt, anger, betrayal, grief, mis-trust, guilt, you name it. I feel like right now there is mostly sadness and anger, and a lot of hurt and obviously no trust. I feel like I have asked the questions I need to ask. I feel like I have come to grips with the fact that good people make horrible decisions. But I also understand how people make those decisions. It is no different than any other decision we justify in our own mind. There are many times all of us make poor selfish decisions in the moment that we know we will regret down the road. I am not justifying her actions at all. there is no excuse for what she did. 

Can someone please define sweeping it under the rug? I feel like I have dealt with the fact that it happened. I know all I want to know. I know I will never have my "innocent" marriage back again. I know I have to rebuild it. I am not saying ok all is well and lets get on with our lives. What I am trying to do is realize we cant change the past. We can only work to improve the future. I don't see a point in focusing on the A but rather on the events that lead to the A so we can re-build our marriage and start out R. there is nothing going on at this point. And no I will never know what is truly in her heart. Unfortunately no one ever knows what is in another's heart. We just have to learn to trust again and have faith. I don't know if I am letting her off easy, if I should be beating her up, maybe I am being a door matt. I don't know. What I do know is I want to make it this better and R with my wife.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She not only cheated you, she also cheated on her/your family by using them as baby sitters. They unknowingly were involved in her affair.

No consequences --> No reason to change. Which is the exact reason her affair resumes. Next time she has the opportunity to cheat, she will think a little about the consequences of exposure. Maybe she is trying to reconcile only because she feels the need to keep up her image of a good mother and wife.

And exposure, you need not do it in a mean spirited way. And you need not expose it to everyone you know, just some members of her close family that will hold her accountable when she messes up again.. Exposure is very important for WW like yours who are big on words and pretensions.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Here is how to keep the rugsweep from happening:

Your wife needs to face what she did and start taking active steps to make sure she never does this again. 

1) She gets into independent counseling, weekly, with a pro-marriage counselor who will hold her feet to the fire and help her get to the bottom of why she allowed her boundaries to fail;

2) She throws out everything that has to do with the OM: clothes she wore for him, gifts, letters, etc. She gets a new cell phone and new phone number. 

3) She comes clean on her financial infidelity towards you. She needs to go back and add up all the money she spent on her affair, show you the bank records, reciepts and everything. I guarantee you and she will both be shocked when she adds it all up. 

4) She willingly takes your anger and tears anytime you need to unleash on her. No running away from the pain she caused you. Now that doesn't mean you have the right to physically or empotionally abuse her, but you need to let out some of the anger you are feeling. 

5) She writes you a timeline of when the affair started, how many times they hooked up, when, where, etc., so you have a clear view of the entire affair so you can process it and move on. 

6) She comes clean on her sexual deeds with him, whatever you need to know, as often as you ask, even if she has to repeat it. 

7) No witholding sex from you....period. And if she did things with OM that she never or wouldn't do for you, she better be able to explain why, to your satisfaction. 

8) She has to be willing to accept that you could choose to walk away anytime you want, even years down the road.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

lostnsad said:


> they are not in contact any more. She made the NC call before she revealed the PA but after the EA about 8 weeks ago. I have certain access to both of their records if need be. At this time I firmly believe the A is over. She told me last night she hates him. I know that may seem extreme but I have ben asking her about her feelings since DD and I have noticed they have been fading extremely fast. on NC call he tried to guilt her into leaving me still and she flat out told him she was done with him. I think she sees him for what he truly is at this point and have little to no concern of her going back to him, as long as we can R. if we cant R then I really don't care how she chooses to destroy her life nor will I have any input anyway.


Not exaggerating, saw a much similar post from a BS a few weeks back. The affair resumed shortly after that.

The opposite of love is apathy, not hate. If she hates him, she still has strong feelings for him.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

Thorburn.
She is willing to answer the questions for the most part. The issue we run into and she will admit this, is that she doesn't like digging deep and opening up, and I feel like unless I know what I am looking for I don't know what to ask about. However, once the conversations has started I feel that she is honest and willing to talk about anything I ask. it just takes so much work to get to that point. And again how do I know she is not hiding something or doesn't even realize it is there. Again there are no excuses, and she knows this. But She has been through a lot in her life, some due to me others due to things that happened to her before me. She has learned to compartmentalize and bury things so deep she probably doesn't even realize they are there. I see her trying though. I see her willingness to talk to me about feelings and emotions and thoughts that she has not exposed to me since before we were dating and our early marriage. It just takes a lot of work to get her to do it.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

lostnsad said:


> So I am trying to do this right. I don't know what that is. I don't know what emotions I should be feeling at this point....
> 
> Can someone please define sweeping it under the rug?
> 
> ...


YOU are trying to do this right. You are wondering what emotions you should be feeling. This is the part that shows you are a bit of a doormat. Not to hurt you. I was there too.

Rugsweeping is hiding or minimizing the affair. It means you don't want others to know. It means you are making it out to be less of a deal than it really is for both of you.

YOU have to rebuild it?!? This show us that YOU are working on the R, but you are not allowing it to be HER responsibility.

The last parts of your post all indicate that you are rushing into a R instead of considering what other options are available. I would dare say most of us in the betrayed camp make these same decisions early after d-day. 6 weeks is still early.

You have been given some excellent advice. It is so difficult to apply it, because your sitution is unique. Sorry, but that is not true. Your story is almost as typical as it gets.

Save yourself more misery, and actually make it possible to have a true R. Do this by telling her it is over, file for a D, and have her move out. Tell anyone that is part of your (and her) circle that she had an affair. Then she can begin to understand why an A is not good. She can begin to R in a way that would be more likely to reach your goal of saving your marriage.

In the meantime look in the mirror and watch your feelings change. It may take time. You don't need to ask what you should feel, just observe what you do feel. When you get to a point way past hurt and angry, you will discover indifference. That is the point when you will be comfortable to D, and find a woman worth your efforts.

So sorry you are here. I am about 2.5 years out from d-day. Life is good. I am hoping that yours will be good too. It will take time.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

She does not digging deep into thing? I am sure you do not like the fact she had sex with another man. You cannot be giving into her likes and dislikes if she really wants to rebuild a new marriage with you she needs to dig deep. To bad if it is something she does not like or it is painful for her. It is a must do.

Allowing her to not dig deep and explain herself. Marriages have problems the one thing you have to do is deal with the A first, then you can deal with the other stuff. Listen to Bandit - good advice 

My Dday was 7/10/2010 we are still in R. I do not have mind movies on a daily basis anymore. We are rebuilding the trust and communication. We are having more of a marriage now then we did before.


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## OnMyOwnat50 (Jan 28, 2013)

My story is something to think about as you ponder your next move. My STBXH had an EA with a woman at work 3 years ago. I suspected an affair and because our marriage had always been rocky, I asked him to leave. He did. Suspicions confirmed when H of OW calls me two days later. H of OW confronts wife and my H. They agree to break off affair, but continue it for several months before the OW breaks it off with my H. My H begs to come home. I let him. Went to MC. Things not great, but are OK for about a year. Don't think he is making the effort he needs to make toward reconciliation, so 16 months after he came home, I tell him I want a divorce.

Within two weeks of our separation (October 2012), rumors are flying at their workplace that STBXH and the OW are at it again. I anonymously emailed/texted the OWs H. Wish I had been more direct. It shakes the man up and he confronts OW and my STBXH again but they deny everything and as I found out a couple weeks ago (nearly a year later), he believed them. The OWs H actually thought it was my STBXH who sent the anonymous message--- trying to cause problems in the marriage. Think they cool things off for a while, but who knows. STBXH very depressed and texting me frequently, leaving me to believe that OW broke it off again after the confrontation.

Fast forward to two weeks ago, find out STBXH bought a house in the town the OW lives in. I decide to call the OWs H to "warn" him. He tells me he already knows, and he found out when he got back from a 12-hour drive dropping their oldest son off for his first semester at college. Turns out while he was away that STBXH and the OW packed up her stuff and moved her (and one of their twin boys) into his new home. The guy had no idea anything was up. He and his 3 boys are devastated.

Point of the story is this. Neither I nor the OWs H did what we should have when the EA was first discovered. We both asked our spouses to give up their jobs but didn't force it because of the state of the economy and the number of people that were unemployed. Unfortunately, we also couldn't check their work email or their work-issued cell phones, or their work-issued password-protected laptops. We trusted them. Big mistake. I think there was a year or so in which they had given up contact with each other... but they kept going back to each other. The OWs husband has considered exposing the affair to everyone they work with but worries that if she loses her job she can't help pay the bills. 

I can file for divorce in two weeks, but in the wake of this mess you have another destroyed family and 5 children (2 of mine; 3of the OWs) who are devastated by what my STBXH and the OW have done. Who knows what would have happened if we had done what we should have.... but there's certainly a chance that they could have been stopped had we done more than we did....


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Here is how to keep the rugsweep from happening:
> 
> Your wife needs to face what she did and start taking active steps to make sure she never does this again.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying I'm all of this. The more I think about the exposure part the more I think there is validity in what you say. If she had come clean 4 years ago and been exposed what happened this summer probably would not have occurred. I will bring it up in counseling. The other issue is the full disclosure. There are questions I still have that have yet to be fully answered. O think more because she doesn't want to think about it than that she doesn't remember. We are all capable of putting timelines together I'd we want to. I did. I pulled up all my flight itineraries from working out of town and somehow I know more about their timeline and days than she does. I see this as a major issue. I see this as her burying it and not wanting to deal with what she did. We shall see. I will approach her in it again. I will consider both of these long and hard. As for leaving I will do that regardless of what she says whenever I want. She has no control over that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I would be very surprised if your IC will be supportive mine was not but when I did not expos and took the high road my wife did not respect me and played lip service to the R and this part hurt my male ego even more. Her AP did not fear me and continued to pursue my wife.

The shock and awe of the exposure is what kills the A and sneaking behind your back. If you decide to Expose do not let anyone know you are going to do it. We had a couple of bad days after exposure but it snapped my wife out of the fog.

The tears she had before exposure were for herself and not for me. The tears that came afterwards were for me and for our family and what she had done to us.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lostnsad said:


> I understand what you are saying I'm all of this. The more I think about the exposure part the more I think there is validity in what you say. If she had come clean 4 years ago and been exposed what happened this summer probably would not have occurred. I will bring it up in counseling.
> 
> *Do you have a good counselor? One who is pro-marriage and who doesn't take excuses and crap from your wife? If not, you need to find a new one. Bad counselors, who side with the wayward, can be as damaging to a marriage as an affair. *
> 
> ...


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

lostnsad,

Closely read the posts by Mahike and Bandit.

Your WW sounds very similar to my exWW, and probably the majority of WSs that are not really working to fix their problems.

Your time since d-day is relatively short, and your feelings have not had a chance to evolve yet.

Your wife is not worried about your R, or a D judging on the things you have described.

Your hesitation on her consequences have left her feeling empowered.

Yesterday your strong posts about wanting to R are understandable, but leave you in a weak position for negotiation.

In order to improve your position, you need to push/prepare for a divorce. You need to play the game of chicken, and do NOT back off until she is clearly honest and forth coming in all aspects.

If that doesn't work, R was never a true option for you.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

the question I have at this point, and she will tell me everything I ask, is how much do I really want to know? Do I really need to know the details? I think the timeline, when and where, maybe even what are probably beneficial for closure. There are times that I think I can handle the dirty details, but then I wonder if that will just destroy me. To date the way that I have been handling things that come up depends on severity and frequency. If the question or thought only comes up once and I can dismiss it I leave it alone. If it continues to come up repeatedly and causes turmoil inside I address it with her. Once addressed I usually feel better about it. The reason I am trying to do it this way is because I would first off be asking questions and lashing out ceaselessly, second some of the things that come up are not motivated by healing but anger and wrath. I try and process all of these emotions and thoughts that come up and reason through them to figure out if it is old and has been addressed satisfactorily or if it is new and needs to be addressed. As with the details, it keeps coming up, but I am very afraid it will destroy me. As of right now the mind movies have diminished, and the horrible thoughts also. I don't want to let them back in. But I also know if I don't get the answers I need it will come back up. 

so the question. Do I really need to know? Do I need to know exactly what they did? Positions? O? everything? Does this help or just make things worse? the fantasies in my head are under control. Do I want to re-open this can of worms? or will it come back regardless and we will just have to deal with it later? Is it best to just get it out of the way now?


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## raven3321 (Sep 25, 2013)

Sorry for your pain.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

@bandit

I am not sure about our counselor right now. We are not overly happy with her. But we have only been able to have a few sessions. I am not sure how much a few sessions are going to do for us. I would imagine that results are going to be slow going. I do think she is pro-marriage and I think she is definitely not on her side or coddling her. but I do think she could hold her feet to the fire a little more.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

lostnsad said:


> If she had come clean 4 years ago and been exposed what happened this summer probably would not have occurred.


 The 6 month affair that ended 4 years ago did not only impact what your wife did this Summer. It negatively impacted your marraige from the day the affair started until today. Even assuming that the affair was for six months and that it really ended 4 years ago, that is 25% of your marraige where you never had a real chance.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Some people do not want to know the details. I read or saw or heard the results of their time together. Emotions for you are all over the place at this time and I get that. Anger was a big one for me.

The one thing you have to do at this point is 1. expose, 2. Demand all the info you want or need and 3. She needs to know you will walk (file for a D and have her served, you do not have to go all the way but she has to know you are ready to throw her ass to the street) 

You have to be an Alpha. Now you can decide later if you want to D or R and how much detail you really need but she needs to know you are a strong man


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

lostnsad said:


> ... how much do I really want to know?


Her honesty in sharing is one of two things; she realizes how important honesty is in rebuilding trust, or she really doesn't care how it hurts you. Just my opinion. I hope you know which of the parts is true for your relationship.

How much do you want to know? That is your discretion. If it is too scary to ask, you are probably not ready to deal with the reality.

The details really won't change what did or did not happen. They probably won't affect your decision to R or eventually to D.

She cheated. You know.

Your focus probably will eventually be on your decision to continue with this type of woman, or to move on to something different.

We all need different amounts of time to make the decision. The default choice is usually for R. The numbers show that with betrayal a D will usually happen. Allow youself time to make any real decision. 

The idea is to eliminate regrets in either path. You won't be able to do this if you don't allow yourself the emotional space to think it through for as long as it takes.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

I am not filing for a divorce. I am not going to expose her. I am not going to force her to stay in a relationship out of fear. she needs to stay out of love, not fear. Not because of pressure from outside forces. i will give this a go, I will do everything I can to make this work, and I believe she will too. If she proves me wrong then im the fool. If we fail it wont be because we didn't try. If she walks all over me again then that is on her and we will be done. 
If I expose her and threaten her then she will be staying under false pretenses and that is not what I want out of a relationship. I understand what you are saying and i respect it especially knowing that you have been through this already. I want to take these things to heart and you do still have very good advice. However I can not take that road, I just don't feel that it is right for me, and it is not what I want. I feel it Is a continuing of the games that brought us to this point to begin with.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

My sincerest wishes for success.

The choice is yours to make.

May the odds ever be in your favor. 

Keep us posted on how it goes. It is always beneficial to others knowing how you are doing. We become attached to people that have suffered through these things.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

lostnsad said:


> I am not filing for a divorce. I am not going to expose her. I am not going to force her to stay in a relationship out of fear. she needs to stay out of love, not fear. Not because of pressure from outside forces. i will give this a go, I will do everything I can to make this work, and I believe she will too. If she proves me wrong then im the fool. If we fail it wont be because we didn't try. If she walks all over me again then that is on her and we will be done.
> If I expose her and threaten her then she will be staying under false pretenses and that is not what I want out of a relationship. I understand what you are saying and i respect it especially knowing that you have been through this already. I want to take these things to heart and you do still have very good advice. However I can not take that road, I just don't feel that it is right for me, and it is not what I want. I feel it Is a continuing of the games that brought us to this point to begin with.


It is not a game. look at other sites and read books about A's. Your wife is playing by the cheaters rule book and you are going to lose what you say you value.

Taking the high road and being passive is not noble. Your kids will know all someday, nothing stays hidden for ever and what example will you have shown them.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

the bottom line is I cant control her. that is obvious or this would not have happened. By threatening D and exposure that is what I would be doing. If I want a D then that is what I should do. If and when my children find out, and im sure they will. I will be able to say I did what I thought was right. I will be able to say that I tried to end the hurt and misery of the prior 18 years. I will be able to hold my head tall. If she decides to cheat again she will be the one who will have nothing to say. She will not be able to say that I forced her or manipulated her in any way. She will not be able to say that I did anything in any way to force her to stay in this relationship. Again, she will cheat if that is what she wants to do and there will be nothing I can do about it at that point. I will continue to check in. Right now she is writing up a timeline of all of the events. from start to finish.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Does your wife spring nice surprises on you? Do little things to make you happy? What did she find in the A that was missing from your relationship? Or was it merely boredom? Who pursued whom? What did they say about you?

You must really hate the ex friend. Does she?


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

right now yes my wife is bending over backwards to do everything she can to prove how sorry she is. She is searching long and hard inside herself to make changes and I do see some, a lot. As we all know only time will tell on that.

yes she does do nice little things for me, now.

She had a friend in him, he was a fun escape from the hardships of being married. More than anything though he was willing to listen when I was not there or unwilling to.

He always had feelings for her I think. She fell in love with him and made the first move. Still getting info on the rest of it. 

they didn't talk about me. 

Do I hate him? yes and no. Do I wish him dead? no, but I wouldn't be upset if he did die a miserable death... tomorrow

does she hate him. I don't know. she says so. But I know she hates what they did. He was truly a good friend at one time. they destroyed that. It will never be the same. I think there is the possibility that she misses the friendship they once had, and that she wishes it was still there. But she knows that it never will be again. she knows they destroyed that by the A. When she had the NC she saw him for his true colors as he tried to guilt her into leaving me and destroying her family. She saw that he cared nothing for her but only wanted sex at that point. Since she is not a sexual person at all I have little concern about her reaching out to him for that. I know there is always doubt, and I do have that, but I feel that she realizes what she did, and that she has no desire to do it again, especially with him.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

lostnsad said:


> Do these thoughts ever go away? How do you get past them? Does this ever heal? Or do I just have to deal with this for the rest of my marriage? I just want to wake up from this nightmare.


Just went back to rethink about your issue. The answers we have been giving are our ideas on how to heal for you.

You really didn't want advice on how to deal with her, just a way to get past the thoughts.

It seems that the problem is that your wife is your trigger.

My opinion is that you will always have thoughts as long as your primary trigger is part of your life.

Trust is a pandora's box after a betrayal. Maybe most of us are trying to help you with something you really don't want to open.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Dear lostnsad,

This is your marriage and your life and so we must all respect the decision you have made and wish you well. That said, the whole purpose of TAM/CWI is to offer advice and share personal experiences so that you have as much information as possible on which to base your decisions. In that spirit, allow me to make some observations.



lostnsad said:


> *I am not filing for a divorce. I am not going to expose her. [The approach you have decided to take in order to R with your WW has been taken by many other BSs before and the results have generally not been good. Failure to expose means fewer eyes on your WW and therefore more opportunities for her to cheat again and less chance of her being caught.]* I am not going to force her to stay in a relationship out of fear. *she needs to stay out of love, not fear. [Whatever your WW feels for you right now, it is not love. Only a few months ago, she told you that she wanted a divorce so that she could pursue a relationship with the OM. I don't know why she has decided to stay and neither do you. Only she knows that but the odds are that fear of the alternative (e.g., the effect of D on her children and her financial future) is a major reason. Remorse is not love. People don't cheat on the ones they truly love. So don't kid yourself that she is in love with you right now. Might she come to love you again someday? Perhaps, but, female nature being what it is, if she perceives your reaction to her adultery as being that of a weak, dependent man, the odds are low.]* Not because of pressure from outside forces. i will give this a go, *I will do everything I can to make this work, and I believe she will too. [Men who take a firm stand on adultery, expose it **in order to give their WWs consequences, file for divorce to test their WWs level of interest in R and withhold forgiveness until theie WWs have earned it are also doing everything they can to save their marriages. For all you know, what you have decided to do may not be all you can. Also, don't assume that "she will too." Only time will tell how deep is her remorse and how committed she is to R.]* If she proves me wrong then im the fool. If we fail it wont be because we didn't try. If she walks all over me again then that is on her and we will be done.
> *If I expose her and threaten her then she will be staying under false pretenses and that is not what I want out of a relationship. [Unfortunately, you will never have what you wanted out of your marriage -- a forever faithful wife. The best you can hope for now is one who does not cheat on you a third time (she's already cheated twice by your account). You need to realize that what you want and what you get are likely to be different if you don't do what is necessary to get what you want.]* I understand what you are saying and i respect it especially knowing that you have been through this already. I want to take these things to heart and you do still have very good advice. However I can not take that road, I just don't feel that it is right for me, and it is not what I want.* I feel it Is a continuing of the games that brought us to this point to begin with. [Taking a tougher approach to infidelity is no more or less a "game" than what you have decided to do. I sense that you believe that your approach is somehow morally superior. It is not.]*





lostnsad said:


> *the bottom line is I cant control her. that is obvious or this would not have happened. By threatening D and exposure that is what I would be doing. [You are falling into one of the most common traps that WSs set: "if you give me consequences for my adultery, you are trying to control me." First, this is just not true. Exposing, filing for D, setting boundaries, etc., are things that you do yourself and have every right to do. Indeed, they are no more controlling (a lot less, **actually) then how she sought to "control" you by accepting all of the benefits of marriage while cheating behind your back. Second, marriage implies that each partner has a degree of control over the other. When you agree to marry someone, you give up a measure of personal freedom. You agree not to have sex with others, you agree to support your spouse financially, emotionally and otherwise, you agree to help your spouse raise your children. Thus, when the two of you married, you agreed that she has a right to "control" to a degree your behavior for the health of the marriage and vice versa.]* If I want a D then that is what I should do. *If and when my children find out, and im sure they will. I will be able to say I did what I thought was right. I will be able to say that I tried to end the hurt and misery of the prior 18 years. I will be able to hold my head tall. [I agree with you on this 100%. In the end, only you can decide what is right for you and your marriage.]* *If she decides to cheat again she will be the one who will have nothing to say. She will not be able to say that I forced her or manipulated her in any way. She will not be able to say that I did anything in any way to force her to stay in this relationship. [But not with this. If she betrays you again, **in order to assuage her conscience, she will spin it so that you sound like the bad guy. The fact that you took what you considered to be the high road the first time you caught her cheating will earn you no credit whatsoever in her mind.]* *Again, she will cheat if that is what she wants to do and there will be nothing I can do about it at that point. [You sound like a fatalist. Of course you cannot prevent her from cheating again but that's not the question. The question is what is the best thing to do to reduce the likelihood of this happening and, on this question, the direction you have decided to take is not the one that seems the most effective based on the combined experience of the BSs (successful and unsuccessful) who have posted on TAM/CWI.]* I will continue to check in. Right now she is writing up a timeline of all of the events. from start to finish.


I think what people here are trying to tell you is that you seem too trusting of your WW, too fearful of taking strong action to prevent a repeat of her infidelity and to quick to forgive her, than circumstances warrant.

R takes years and success is the exception, not the norm. Whether it happens depends on a myriad of factors but one of the most important one seems to be how the BS reacts. The experience on TAM/CWI is that BSs are generally better off demonstrating strength rather than weakness, i.e., being less trusting rather than more, giving consequences to rather than trying to "nice" their WSs back and only forgiving after the WS has proven over an extended period of time his or her commitment to the marriage and willingness to do whatever it takes to help the BS recover from the adultery.

All that said, I wish you and your family the best possible outcome.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

This is sad primarily because the OP is so focussed on keeping his marriage together that he cannot see

that his wife is in love with someone else - she does not hate the OM, she loved him but is disappointed that he keeps pursuing her when it doesn't suit her
that she never exhibited any remorse for what she did before for 6 whole months (at least) again because she was in love with the OM
that it is not normal or OK for a wife to "fall in love" with someone else whilst married and this is a really big deal
that she pursued him again and started it up again only to be found out by OP
that she is making some sort of attempt at R with OP but with certain conditions (where this should really be unconditional to have any chance at all of not recurring and working out)
that there is no easy way or shortcut to resolve this - and rug sweeping is definitely not the answer as it will not really force the WW to deal with what she has done - exposure to make sure that this is killed properly, full transparency, timeline and details to bring OP fully into the picture and offer reassurance whilst realising the full impact of what she did, and finally 180 for OP to repair himself before going forward with either D or R.

However this might have some chance of working and I hope for his sake that it does. My view is that he would be better served by not taking shortcuts and going through the whole (proven) process as encouraged by all here.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

lostnsad said:


> The bottom line is I cant control her. that is obvious or this would not have happened. By threatening D and exposure that is what I would be doing.
> 
> *If she decides to cheat again she will be the one who will have nothing to say. She will not be able to say that I forced her or manipulated her in any way. She will not be able to say that I did anything in any way to force her to stay in this relationship.* Again, she will cheat if that is what she wants to do and there will be nothing I can do about it at that point.


Are you justifying or prophesying? 

We all understand, you are giving her another chance. I did the same with my FWW, but the real question remains... does she truly want you back as her "forever", or does she *just need you *now do the reality and turmoil of her affair. Remember, she was the one that demanded a divorce. 

_"We"_ have been there, right up to our eyeballs in this mess. I sense you are afraid you will "run" her off if you expose her years of adultery. Truth... if you are afraid, she is already gone.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The time line will give new clarity
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> This is sad primarily because the OP is so focussed on keeping his marriage together that he cannot see
> 
> that his wife is in love with someone else - she does not hate the OM, she loved him but is disappointed that he keeps pursuing her when it doesn't suit her
> that she never exhibited any remorse for what she did before for 6 whole months (at least) again because she was in love with the OM
> ...


So we met with our counselor last night. She is going to sit down and figure out the timeline. MC will sit with her and help her dig it all out and figure out what when where. I think this is good because she needs to face what she did and why. 

This summer happened because she never fully severed those feelings for him. That is because she was never forced to. She was able to get away with it. Like you have all been saying. I think now that she has actually seen the damage and is starting to look at what she did she is realising that there never was anything there of substance. Unfortunately I think you are right and she may still have feelings for him, however as she looks back at what she did I think those will fade. This like everything will take time. 

She says she is willing to expose to anyone I ask her to. I believe her. And we will bring this up in counseling next week. I do see a value to it because she needs to face what she did, however the value is not that other people will keep her in line. It has to do with again facing what she has done and the impact it has on everyone around us. 

I want to clarify that she is willing to do anything and to this point though she has not been perfect in it she has tried, I see that. She is opening up. This is very difficult for her to do. You can say I'm being soft but if you knew her you would understand, she buries everything, that is one of the reasons we are here right now. She is digging and doing the best she can and though it may take some work for both of us she is giving me the answers I need. Again it takes some digging and asking a lot of questions, but I think she is being as honest and open as she can, I see it and believe it. 

There are two people in every relationship. I don't want anyone to think I'm defending or justifying her actions. There is a reason she was in this situation. I shut down years ago. I was not there for her at all. I travelled 3 weeks a month rarely talked to her when I was gone Or home. I gave no support to her emotionally whatsoever I did not help with the kids or household in any way. Again this is not an excuse this is merely starting the facts surrounding the event. Again this summer I was not there for her and though she threatened D I think it was more of a cry for help and out of desperation that she could not continue living this way. Again I'm not justifying and neither is she, but If I had been doing my part and she hers this would not have been a temptation. 

I said in my OP I want going into details but I had what would be considered an EA probably 10 years ago. I still think it was less than it was but she was convinced it was a PA. Even though there was no emotional bond I spent way too much time with a client and I turned my back on my wife in times of need. I was not in love I was not emotionally attached, however I did place myself in compromising situations that I knew were wrong and I shouldn't have done it. To this day she still thinks something happened. Regardless as a result she shut down on me. 

Again, there is NO justification for what she did. She knows this. What I'm trying to explain is a little of the background. I was not the ideal husband and no she was not the ideal wife. We have both hurt each other horribly over the years. As I have said before I am done with the hurting. I'm done with causing pain. We have an opportunity to become that marriage that we have both wanted but have been unable to give because of our pride, immaturity, and selfishness. Yes she had to face what she has done. To this point I think she has buried it but every day I am forcing her to dig long and hard into what she did. Our MC is completely in agreement and is going to hold her feet to the fire. I am very relieved in this because I did have concerns. 

I am not disregarding everything that is said here. Some of your posts have taken me back weeks in this process. I have truly taken your advice and looked long and hard at it. And I will continue to do so. I want to do this right. I want to make my marriage work. And even though I may not follow your advice I do consider it and weigh it into my situation. I understand that even though all of these situations are very similar I need to weigh in the 2 personalities that are involved in mine and the circumstances In our lives then and now. 

Am I afraid of her getting frustrated and leaving. Absolutely. But I think that is more of a trust issue at this point. I plain and simple don't trust who she is and what she says. Just like she is afraid of the same thing. She is very aware of the fact that I could get up and walk out at any minute. As well she should be. As we continue on this path though and I explain what it is I need to rebuild trust and move beyond this point she is willing to do anything I ask. If you knew her and how difficult some of this is for her you would take a greater appreciation for how hard she really is trying. There are things that have been buried for 30 years and she doesn't even know how to dig them up. These are all things that we are learning together. She is doing a lot of the heavy lifting right now she is trying to face what she has done. She didn't have to reveal the PA. I would have never found out. But she knew she would have to tell me in order to be able to move on. I know she is here and will do whatever it takes to make this work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## moto164 (Aug 4, 2013)

Its best to give the most info available so the experts can give accurate recommendations.


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## moto164 (Aug 4, 2013)

Doe's your councilor know the full story.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

yes. she knows about the client I had this going on with and another that my wife suspected but there was never anything there. Again this was a border line EA. I had no separation anxiety, when the job was done I spoke to her only on a professional level and very rarely at that. I made some poor decisions in the places I went with her but never crossed any lines or was even tempted to. The only reason I would consider it an EA is because I neglected the attention my wife needed for work, and to socialize after work at that time she happened to be around a lot. there was never any one on one time spent with her we were always in a group setting, with many co-workers and other clients. If I was to be completely honest I would say I had a true EA with my job more than with any body else. Again I can see the perception of an EA however I truly feel that it was more me being selfish and not wanting to deal with the drama at home than actually searching for an emotional bond with anyone. there was one instance a year or two down after this job I worked with her at that I met her in Texas for. I originally was not going to go because of my wife's concerns. at the last minute the salesperson had to cut out of the meeting. Because I knew the client I was forced to go. I made the poor decision of crashing on her couch instead of getting a hotel room. Her 16 year old son and Fiancée for lack of a better term were both there and there was nothing that happened. I am fully aware of the fact that again I made a very foolish decision. I was up front and honest with my wife about it and hid nothing but she never believed me. 
My counselor does not know that part of it, I don't think. But then we haven't really been talking much about myself or even any of our past. We have been mainly trying to focus on my emotions and trying to get through this. We both know there are many issues we need to face and deal with. We are both working at fixing this and our communication. We will be dealing with the root of the problems moving forward. I have tried to be honest with everyone here. I have nothing to hide form anyone. I have no pride left at this point. if you want the full story of our 18 year marriage it will take a week to write. The bottom line is though I did not cheat on my wife, I do hold a lot of blame for the situation our marriage was in at the time of the A. I did not make her have the EA or PA. however I did make her feel neglected and that is why she was searching for something more. I know there are people out there who are just cheaters and that is how they are. I know we all think our wives are different. But my wife was not out for a thrill. she was not out to hurt me or anything of that nature. We had both shut down on each other. She was miserable and was only looking for someone who cared. her feeling that way is my fault. this does not justify what she did, and she was just as much to blame for the situation. I truly believe that if we learn to fulfill each others needs this will not happen again. Furthermore, she knows that if we get to the point where we need to search for something in someone else we will be D. Not because of any sort of A. But because we will both come to the realization that this just isn't going to work. I have already told her and the MC that this is my last try. If we cant get it right now, it will never be right.


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## RyanBingham (Mar 27, 2013)

barbados said:


> You don't "get past it". It is now part of who you are. That is reality. What you can do, however, is to move on and be happy in life for yourself on your own terms. In your situation that will best be served without her.


Agreed - reality is hard to shake especially if the op wasn't part of the fantasy. Everything he sees in his mind's eye will be as real and he will either suck it up or it will torment him and have undue consequences if he remains with her. She needs consequences and he needs to focus on detaching.


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

It has been a while since I have posted. I have been reading here and there on other threads recently and thought I would check in on my status.

We are now a little past 3 months from dday. Though things are not perfect they have vastly improved. Our communication is a thousand times what is has ever been before. She is completely open with her thoughts and feelings, from what I can tell, as we all know we can never know what another is truly thinking. She has completely dedicated herself to me and our family. She shows remorse and seeks atonement on a daily basis. Yes it is still very hard for me. There are still times I want to just walk away. But when those times come she is there. She works hard to bring me back. She fully accepts and embraces the fact that she brought this on and dutifully works at showing me in every way that she is fully committed to me. When there are questions she answers them. When I need her she drops everything and is there for me. She ceaselessly works at rebuilding trust by being 100% open and honest in all aspects of who she talks to what they say where she is and what she is doing. 

Though there are times I think she buries some of her feelings I think it is more because she feels she has no right to feel that way because she is the one who caused all of this damage and hurt. But I think she is learning that I need to know these things, I need to know that she feels pain for what she did. As a result she is starting to open up more on that aspect. 

We are going to IC and MC and this seems to be helping both of us in communication. But the majority of the work is done on our own by being open and honest with our thoughts and feelings. We have and are learning to meet each other's needs on a daily basis. 

As for my original question. Will these thoughts ever go away? No. They will always be there. They will always creep in. Though at times they may haunt me and seek to destroy me I will not let "him" win. I will not let her actions control my life and destroy everything I love. Instead I will use those images to remind me to be ever vigilant of my heart. I will use them to remind me that I need to constantly check in on her and delve into how she is feeling and where her head is at. I will not allow this A to be a tool of destruction but rather a tool to rebuild our marriage and family and to bring us to a place where neither of us will ever feel neglected in any way again. 

This is where I want to be. This is what I want to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

lostnsad said:


> I don't want to go into details about what my wife did. Bottom line is she had a 6 month affair 4 years ago with a friend of ours. They called it off on their own and I was none the wiser. We moved out of state about 1.5 years ago. This last summer when she went home she reached out to him again. Supposedly nothing physically happened, though they were up to all hours texting and talking on the phone. During this 1 month visit home while I was back in our new state and home she told me she wanted a divorce. Though I knew things were not going the best for us I was completely broadsided. I flew out the next day and tried to sit with her and reason with her. Finally I got out of her that she had had an EA with him and she was done being miserable in our marriage and wanted to pursue a relationship where she would be happy. Over a series of events during the next week she decided she would stay and we would get counseling when we returned from vacation. Once home I confronted her. I told her it was time to be 100% honest and tell me everything. At that point she told me she had a 6 month A 4 years ago.
> It has now been 6 weeks since DDay. We are in counseling and working towards saving our marriage. We have been married 18 years now and have 4 children, who we don't think know anything.
> I love my wife to death. I do see the remorse and she is working her tail off to prove to me how sorry she is and how much she wants to make this work. I don't know if I can do this. I know this is a roller coaster of emotions and feelings. But every time I kiss her, or touch her or her me thoughts of him pop into my head. She keeps encouraging me to talk to her about how I am feeling. She tells me to let it rip, tear into her, let it out. At the same time I don't want to. We have had a very rough marriage and there has been so much hurt. I am so tired of the hurt. I am so tired of beating each other up. That is how we ended up in this place to begin with, never letting go, always trying to one up the other one until finally one of us took that fatal step. I am done with hurting each other, aside from the fact that there is nothing I can do to her at this point to one-up her, I am just done causing pain. I want to move forward and heal. I want to rebuild.
> Here is the problem though. I cant deal with the thoughts of them together. I cant deal with trying to be intimate or just affectionate and seeing him there, thinking about everything she has done with him. Knowing that she gave herself to him. How do I get past this? Will these thoughts ever be gone? I don't know if I can do this for the rest of my life. It scares me because I have no desire to leave her. I love her and know that this is where I want to be. I see what she is doing and how hard she is working to make us better. We are better relationship wise than we have been since we got married.
> Do these thoughts ever go away? How do you get past them? Does this ever heal? Or do I just have to deal with this for the rest of my marriage? I just want to wake up from this nightmare.


Your thoughts express why I will not go back to my former wife.
1) I could not bear with the thoughts of her with someone else
2) I do not think I deserve to be going through the pain of something she did. As I stated to my doctor (after getting checked for STDs) I do not paying for my sins but will not pay for the sins of someone else. 
My former spouse could be the nicest person in the world but at the end of the day - she knew hat she was doing AND knew the hurt she would cause but did it anyway. Sorry if I am not supportive of your efforts in getting back with your wife but I have to be honest. 

My former spouse did the same - withheld from me and gave herself to someone else. All while I was trying to support her and the kids. Not pleasant. All for some bozo who just called her `sexy` everyday. 
The key to ask yourself is this......if you had a best friend or even your son whose wife did this to them what would you tell them? 
There is your answer - sorry she did this to you.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

sorry I did not read you last post before posting....sorry man ....


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## lostnsad (Sep 23, 2013)

I guess that is the point for me. Is my relationship with living with this pain? Though there are times I feel I can't deal with it, in the end I know that she is the one I want to be with. For me I will endure that occasional torture, knowing it is fading, knowing that it will pass. Knowing that this is where I want to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It does fade.
We're going on 4 years of R and its working.
It does happen so don't let anyone tell you different.

Granted you guys still have a long way to go but you can get to the other side together.


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