# First time poster - seeking reality check



## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

Hello, everyone. I happened to find these boards a few weeks ago and have been reading and contemplating posting my situation. I would like an honest and objective opinion about my situation, as I truly don't know if I am being unrealistic or have expectations that are too high. I will try to explain 

Husband and I have been married 22 years (me age 48, him age 49), kids are 12 and 15. WE have had our ups and downs throughout the years just like anyone. Starting about year 5 or so into marriage I started noticing a decline in his interest in physical contact, but then once the kids came along honestly was so tired and so involved with raising babies, toddlers, and young kids that I really was too tired to notice or even care. We may have been intimate maybe six times in a year? And both of us were o.k. with it. Fast forward the last three -five years and now that the kids are much "lower maintenance" in some ways, I have felt the desire to get back to 'like it used to be' and I guess that is a one-way street because he is not really on the same page. He went two years ago to get his t-levels checked which were extremely low, and has been getting shots weekly. For a few months he was really pretty interested (2x a week - which was awesome), but it has dwindled again to where it is 1X a week or even 1x every other week if he has a lot going on. Honestly, for me, it's not really even the physical aspects of it, more or less that I feel sooo disconnected from him when it is like that...........like having a brother instead of a spouse(

Some of the things that really bother me that I want to find out if I am being unrealistic about are:

1. I just can't seem to talk to him about any of this because it turns into a big to-do and we will have a big falling out. To me that is a bad sign right there that we can't even talk about it (( I have explained that it is important to me and he just says that I am being selfish because right now the kids have a lot of needs and that we need to concentrate on THEM. We do have one that is having some struggles, but I still don't think it is selfish to also find some time to keep US as a couple intact. Am I wrong?

2. Since the youngest was a baby, he has turned into a 'night owl' and stays up until about 2 a.m. mostly just playing on his computer, sometimes doing work, watching movies, etc. It just bothers me that for 12 years I have went to bed alone. NOTHING I have said has gotten him to come to bed early, as he says it is just not his thing to go to bed early. I feel so alone. Again, he says this is me being selfish and not respecting his boundaries. Am I wrong on this, too?

3. I asked him to read "love languages" with me as it was highly recommended. He begrudgingly read the chapters I printed out for him (he wouldn't commit to reading the whole thing). My 'languages' were affirmation and physical touch. He says he can't be something he's not (( And that I am trying to change him. Evidently I speak his 'language' which is quality time, but he is not speaking mine. He actually made an effort for a month or so, but then it reverted back and he says it's just not who he is.

4. I am feeling guilty because after 3 years of this, I just don't know how long I can take it. I feel horrible because other than this, he is WONDERFUL. A wonderful dad, person, and overall great husband. What else can I do and am I wrong to feel guilty?I know if for no other reason, I have to make it work for the kids. Any 'general' comments or suggestions?


By the way, I am 5' 6", 124 pounds, not unattractive, and he has at times told me that I am prettier than when we got married. But no amount of lingerie, games, or anything else will get his attention. I miss that intimacy and connection that I have with him, but communicating that just makes him 'give in' all the while me knowing his heart isn't in it............the lack of enthusiasm just can't be missed (((

Please share any thoughts or comments. I do appreciate it!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Does he have any performance issues?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Do you KNOW what he's doing on the computer, late at night? Or are you assuming you know? My first guess is porn, but...

Personally, I think this is god's little joke on humans. When we're young, the guys typically have the high sex drive in a relationship, and are feeling hard done by when their partners aren't as into sex as they would like, especially when kids come along. Then later in life, a woman's sex drive hits it's peak as the guy's start to decline. Fricking hilarious. 

In any case, have you considered counseling, where both of you should be able to share your feelings in a non-confrontational environment?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

No, Buddy..........absolutely no performance issues whatsoever, just not really enthusiastic once anything happens, and initiates very infrequently ((

PBear, I am 99% sure there is NO porn involved. It just wouldn't interest him. Just like me walking in front of him in next to nothing would not create a stir. For a time, I would go and check on him and hear sports going in the background and see him with his guitars and whatnot. He got tired of me coming to check on him (said it felt like I was 'checking up' on him and not just checking on him, if you understand the difference) and asking him to come to bed and it led to a big blow-up. I told him I absolutely will NOT come looking for him anymore at night once we had several big blow-ups. I have held true to my word for the last year. Why be with me when he has games, guitars, online communities, and other various and sundry hobbies.

So am I justified in feeling so unhappy? And is it selfish to want more when everything else is great?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No, you're not being selfish. But now the big question... What are you willing to do to get a healthy sex life?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

PBear said:


> Do you KNOW what he's doing on the computer, late at night? Or are you assuming you know? My *first guess is porn*, but...
> 
> Personally, I think this is god's little joke on humans. When we're young, the guys typically have the high sex drive in a relationship, and are feeling hard done by when their partners aren't as into sex as they would like, especially when kids come along. Then later in life, a woman's sex drive hits it's peak as the guy's start to decline. Fricking hilarious.
> 
> ...


Exactly what I was thinking. If he's taking care of himself with porn, he's not going to be that interested in you. If I were you, I'd try to find out EXACTLY what he's doing at night when you're asleep.


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

Forgot to say.............I DID go to a counselor about 3 years ago when this started. He refused to go saying he was happy, I was not - so no need for him to go! The counselor basically told me after several visits that I could either a. ask him to come with me, b. invite him to come with me, or c. insist he come with me. I chose 'b' and he declined. She also said I could either a. make plans to change my life without him, b. continue with him and make positive changes (a few were suggested), or c. live 'as is' and find other things to spend my attention on. I chose 'b'. 

I truly am at a loss


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

At one point - about two months ago - I had reached my limit of the casualness of this relationship and told him I was going to see an attorney. He promptly proceeded to parade the kids into the room and told them mom was leaving...........and they were IN TEARS, bawling, asking 'why, why, why', and it was just HORRIBLE. I don't think I could ever leave for that reason alone. And if I DID manage to get him to improve and get more interested, would it just be out of OBLIGATION??? I don't want someone to feel OBLIGATED to be with me..........either they want to be with me in that way or they don't. What is wrong with THAT??


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Ok, so your plan B's didn't work out for you. Are you willing to play hardball yet?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

No, PBear, I am scared! I don't know what to do! He makes me feel like I am just a selfish person and that I should be satisfied with all of the good that I do have............and I know there is lots of good..........and I appreciate all of it. But what's wrong with wanting more??? And would I be destroying my kids for ME being selfish???


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Never tell them you are going to leave until/unless you really are going to leave.

So he called your bluff on that one.

But that was a very cruel thing he did to your kids.

Are you sure you aren't ready to leave yet? Just based on that scene alone, I'd be done. (Which isn't meant to say you should be done, it is just to show you how very cruel that was and how others would react).


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Basically, your husband is telling you that he's fine the way things are, and you need to decide if you can accept this. You can't force him to do anything. All you can do is lay out your boundaries, and then be willing to enforce them. Enforcing them may show your husband that you mean business this time, and he may put in an effort to try to meet your needs. No guarantees. But at least you will be able to start improving your situation, one way or the other. 

For me... Living in a sexually unsatisfying relationship was not acceptable. I left my marriage at 43 years old. Things are much better now. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## neuklas (Jun 13, 2013)

Using the kids to call the divorce bluff is atrocious.

Devil's Advocate though - for 15 or so years sex has been infrequent. You admit to being wrapped up in the kids - too tired for it to really matter much other than the infrequent connection.

Now they are older and more self-sufficient. And you want that part of your life back. 

From a male perspective, I'd be saying "where was this over the last decade or so?" And I'd be pissed off about it.

He's got his movies and his music and his games. You had the kids. And . . .

Sounds like unspoken resentments to me, though obviously the really low T is not helpful.

Just saying . . .

Obviously your needs matter and he should want to meet them. I'm just not ready at this point to write him off as completely selfish and unreasonable.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> No, Buddy..........absolutely no performance issues whatsoever


Well, so much for the advice I had considered!

On the coming to bed. I don't know that that means as much as you think. I go to bed later than the wife. As much as I love her, I treasure that time alone. We don't have to go to bed at the same time to have sex. It does seem a little weird that he thinks you're "checking up on him". Guilty conscience about something?

Does he satisfy you when you do have sex?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> So am I justified in feeling so unhappy? And is it selfish to want more when everything else is great?


You are justified. It is not selfish.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> would I be destroying my kids for ME being selfish???


Sorry, I keep seeing something new.

Your kids wouldn't be destroyed. 

You might want to wait a few years (I'm not sure if "staying together for the kids" is actually doing them a favor or not).

If you want to try to motivate him to engage and you're not ready to threaten the marriage, I think there's something to be said for telling him "if nothing's changed when the kids are 18, I'm outta here".


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If you let your fear control you, there is no solution. You have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it, and frankly, I think there is virtually no hope whatsoever that he will change.

If you stay, you are agreeing with the premise that sex isn't important - at least not as important as everything else for which you're staying. Life can be much better and happier if you leave, and from the way you describe yourself, you would have plenty of success dating and moving on if you so choose.

I had to end my first marriage and move on to find some happiness in life - it was the best decision I ever made (well, second only to choosing my current partner).


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

neuklas said:


> Using the kids to call the divorce bluff is atrocious.
> 
> Devil's Advocate though - for 15 or so years sex has been infrequent. You admit to being wrapped up in the kids - too tired for it to really matter much other than the infrequent connection.
> 
> ...


I don't think that's what happened here. If I recall, he lost his drive FIRST, but she stayed busy enough as a new mother that it wasn't a huge deal for her. I don't think he's dealing with resentment over the past, because he started it.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Ack, again with another post.

Nueklas's point is well taken. Was he upset with the infrequent sex before the last couple of years? Does he see it as you having withheld sex? He may be getting his revenge. Does he see you have having denied him for 15 years and now you want yours? If the lack of sex was your fault or he perceives it to be your fault, have you said you're sorry?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

And yeah, that was a completely selfish jerk-move to use your kids against you like that. Horrible.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Who knows what his motivation is for behaving the way he behaves. 

However, one thing I noticed from your situation is that he seems unwilling to work with you on this issue and he seems unconcerned that you are going to leave him over this. 

The stunt he pulled with your kids was outright manipulation. Outright. It was cruel to them and it was cruel to you too - because it didn't in any way address the reason you were considering leaving. 

Faithful is right on that one, he loaded for bear and called your bluff. 

I don't think you are selfish for wanting more. It's like I said on another thread yesterday - you can have a brand new car that everyone is envious of - but if one of the windows is missing and it's not fixable it's going to get on your every last nerve. It's going to destroy the car, too, given enough time. 

I'm a little younger than you but in somewhat the same situation and have been asking myself all these questions as well.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> I don't think that's what happened here. If I recall, he lost his drive FIRST, but she stayed busy enough as a new mother that it wasn't a huge deal for her. I don't think he's dealing with resentment over the past, because he started it.


Fozzy's right. I withdraw my last comment (Is there someway to just delete your own comments?).

I'm going to slow down and try THINKING before my next reply


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## neuklas (Jun 13, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> Fozzy's right. I withdraw my last comment (Is there someway to just delete your own comments?).
> 
> I'm going to slow down and try THINKING before my next reply


You two are right. His loss of drive came first. I read too fast.

At some level though GAPeach acted fine with it for some time, and now it's not fine anymore because she decided it was not fine with her and what she wants.

I respect that 100%. His personal world is rocking though after a long period of what he thought was mutual contentment.

I get that, so foot dragging I don't think is too surprising.

With all that said, using the kids as a weapon bothers me more and more the longer I think about it. It's worse than atrocious. 

I think, to me, it would be evidence of a deep character flaw the likes of which I would want nothing to do with. And, with that said, I think I'd be gone - not worth it to me to be with someone who would use kids to an advantage like that -


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks, everyone. YES, fifteen years ago we were BOTH o.k. with six times a year. We both were, because we were both worn out from all of the kid stuff. Before that, it was more often, but starting to decline right before the kids, and that's when I started being unhappy with it. Then the kids - which we were both o.k. with the way things were during that time frame because we were both worn out. I guess I just am ready to what it was like 'before kids' before he has gotten to that point, if he ever will. I think having the kids put a bandaid on something that actually had started shortly before they were born. And now that they are older, it's all coming back to the surface.

I WAS sincere about going to see an attorney when I said it and was prepared to go, so no bluffing on my part, just couldn't go through with it when the kids got as upset as they did. I also DO think it was terrible about bringing the kids into it.......just wanted to see if I was off-base on that.

I keep thinking that MAYBE, if I can just hold out until the oldest is gone THEN I can do it with no regrets - and that's IF it doesn't improve. I am still going to continue to find ways to make it improve as best as I possibly can with only one person making an effort. And knowing that if it doesn't, I will have nothing holding me back in six years. I will be 54 by then! I feel like I'll be too old to making such a change, but I also probably won't care by then if it stays the same. What are some thoughts on this strategy???


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Your kids already know that things are bad between mom and dad. Your husband has already seen to that. You're not going to fool them into thinking things are fine by sticking around in an unhappy marriage for the next six years.

I won't encourage or discourage you from divorce, but I will say this. If you do make the move, have everything lined up and fire with both barrels before he knows what hits him. Your husband has already proven he's not above manipulation and dirty fighting.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> Your kids already know that things are bad between mom and dad. Your husband has already seen to that. You're not going to fool them into thinking things are fine by sticking around in an unhappy marriage for the next six years.
> 
> I won't encourage or discourage you from divorce, but I will say this. If you do make the move, have everything lined up and fire with both barrels before he knows what hits him. Your husband has already proven he's not above manipulation and dirty fighting.


What Fozzy said.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

GP,

Back to the "him not wanting it" issue for a moment.

I've been on this board for only a couple of weeks as well. As a Low-T, ED guy, I'm very curious about what motivates men who's wives want more sex than they do. 

I know that, although I have had occasional performance issues, if I could always perform, I'd always want it. Not initiating or avoiding sex was due to fear of failure. Luckily, my wife was always very understanding and I always had my mouth

So, you said your husband does not have any performance issues. But, does he always satisfy you? Could he be worried about performance from that perspective? Does he still get the shots?


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

Buddy, there are NO performance issues with him.........things are always PERFECT when he IS interested, and I have ZERO complaints. He has been on the shots about two years now. His levels are consistently normal now. He tried to go on 'maintenance' with gels and patches, but was not consistent with them and decided it was just easier to go and get weekly shots. It also eliminated a lot of other issues he was having (depression, weight gain, fatigue, etc.), so he has other reasons for wanting to continue it. The interest just isn't there and it makes me so sad.

Fozzy, Neuklas, and others -YES, in my mind I didn't think it was right that he involve the kids like that, but he has just about convinced me that I am so 'not normal' with a lot of things and I am constantly second-guessing myself a lot.........a whole lot. Truly, I think rather than serious character flaw, he just did it out of fear knowing that I was for once serious, and he just didn't know what else to do. He is one of the best people I know. And I do love him. I just want a marriage relationship, not a roommate-forced-to-be-intimate situation. I don't even know when he is with me if he really wants to be, or if it is a sense of obligation (which is what it sort of feels like). I agree it's not for the best for the kids, BUT..................in my heart I think I would feel less guilty if I did it when they were adults. But I need to keep processing all of this now that I have finally gotten some perspective from outsiders. It truly HURTS me that I do nothing for him in that area (( It does (((( And to not be willing to talk about it because I am being SELFISH and thinking only of me? I get it that the kids have had some big 'stuff' going on needing our attention, but aren't WE important, too? More thinking needed on my part ((( I'm just scared to do anything.......scared to stay, scared to go. I feel like I am withering inside and he doesn't even want to listen (((


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Consider that by staying, you are modeling a sexless marriage to your children. This makes it likely that they will grow up and have similar issues.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Some things I'd want to investigate if I were you:
Is your husband addicted to p*rn?
Is he having an affair (emotional or physical)?
Is he depressed?

If after investigation the answer to each of the above is "no", then unfortunately there probably is no easy answer to your situation.

Some people are self-centered. They want the facade of a marriage and family life, but don't really want to invest in a real relationship.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Have you ever thought of writing all your thoughts down in a letter to your husband? Perhaps he could read it in private and that would avoid him becoming confrontational as he is when you try to discuss it with him. Tell him everything, how you love him, want to be with him, want to have a healthy marriage (not a roommate relationship), a sex life, etc. etc. Just pour out your heart.

As suggested above, I would first rule out a porn addiction or an affair. Put a keylogger on his computer. 

I sincerely hope things work out for you. I sense the sadness in your words and it's heartbreaking.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't agree that it will be easier in a few years. I'm a bit younger than you are but am already thinking about the comfort of an empty nest, retirement funds we have built together, our plans to travel once the kids are gone, etc. 

Perhaps it just seems easier because it's a few years away and you can push the snooze button on having to take action right now?

I don't think it's any easier on the kids either. I don't think it ruins kids to have divorced parents. However I do have a few friends who parents waited till they were gone to get divorced. How do they feel - they were responsible for their parents staying together and being unhappy. Also just right when you get out into the world the life you left behind breaks. 

Not to sounds like a hypocrite of course because I'm also fence sitting right now and weighing my options. I'm no better or worse than anyone else here who has been sexually unhappy for years but can't seem to make the move either. Right now I'm kind of luxuriating in feeling sorry for myself but it's going to be time to put up or shut up soon.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> Buddy, there are NO performance issues with him.........things are always PERFECT when he IS interested, and I have ZERO complaints.


OK, so that's not an issue either.

So, it's just that he won't cooperate and work with you to improve the sex and intimacy. He doesn't want to deal with it and wants to blame you instead. His reluctance to deal with your needs, which indicates that he doesn't care about your happiness, is almost more disturbing than the sex issue.

I'd normally recommend telling him that you are unhappy and something needs to be done in X amount of time or you're leaving. However, as Fozzy points out, your husband isn't known to fight fair (he might drag out the kids again!). Perhaps you'll just have to tell him how very unhappy you are and that there will be changes in your behavior if he won't try to do anything about it (while you quietly load up the gun barrels). 

If he fails to respond, then start the 180. Withdraw emotionally, work on self improvement, always be pleasant, prepare to leave (emotionally and financially), give up hoping that he'll change. I probably wouldn't wait more than a year or two. There's always a (very) small chance that'll notice something's up and consider trying to change (but don't expect it). 

What's the financial situation? Who makes most of the money?


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> Buddy, there are NO performance issues with him.........things are always PERFECT when he IS interested, and I have ZERO complaints. He has been on the shots about two years now. His levels are consistently normal now. He tried to go on 'maintenance' with gels and patches, but was not consistent with them and decided it was just easier to go and get weekly shots. It also eliminated a lot of other issues he was having (depression, weight gain, fatigue, etc.), so he has other reasons for wanting to continue it. The interest just isn't there and it makes me so sad.
> 
> Fozzy, Neuklas, and others -YES, in my mind I didn't think it was right that he involve the kids like that, but he has just about convinced me that I am so 'not normal' with a lot of things and I am constantly second-guessing myself a lot.........a whole lot. Truly, I think rather than serious character flaw, he just did it out of fear knowing that I was for once serious, and he just didn't know what else to do. He is one of the best people I know. And I do love him. I just want a marriage relationship, not a roommate-forced-to-be-intimate situation. I don't even know when he is with me if he really wants to be, or if it is a sense of obligation (which is what it sort of feels like). I agree it's not for the best for the kids, BUT..................in my heart I think I would feel less guilty if I did it when they were adults. But I need to keep processing all of this now that I have finally gotten some perspective from outsiders. * It truly HURTS me that I do nothing for him in that area (( It does (((( And to not be willing to talk about it because I am being SELFISH and thinking only of me? I get it that the kids have had some big 'stuff' going on needing our attention, but aren't WE important, too? More thinking needed on my part ((( I'm just scared to do anything.......scared to stay, scared to go. I feel like I am withering inside and he doesn't even want to listen *(((


There are at least 3 posters in this thread alone right there with you. Welcome to the "Too Hard To Stay, Too Scared To Leave Club". There are also at least 2 posters in this thread alone that have been right there in the past. Good folks to listen to here.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

You are not selfish for wanting to connect with your husband. You are also in a situation that is far more common than many think.

What is his parents marriage like? Did they stay together for the kids sake in a loveless marriage by any chance?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

First I want to assure you that I am in a similar position to you. I'm 48 have 2 kids at home. 16 and 21. There is a difference in our history instead of dropping straight into sexlessness when we started having kids (we did get started a bit more quickly than you did) We slowly declined to the point we are at now (around once a week). I'm the High Drive partner. 

We never dipped to monthly or every other month. We didn't get so involved in our kids that we forgot to take care of our marriage. One of our self evident truths was That the best gift you can give to your children is happily married parents. It is not too late for you to give your kids that. 

Next I was as surprised as you are that once a week is not even close to being statistically sexless. Sexless is defined as 10 times per year or less. So once a week is 8 x more than your sexless average. surely something to celebrate even if it isn't as much as you want. (personally I want 2-3 x a week) Even the every other week schedule is 4 x more than the previous rate. You don't know yet how unheard of it is to get a low drive partner to add that much sex to the schedule.

OK so you have moved a mountain so far, but the goal is still out of sight. I gotta tell you the sleeping schedule is probably a big part of the problem. Going to bed together promotes intimacy in marriage. That is not code for sex. Other than sexual intimacy is sharing of secrets, financial interdependence, shared trust, and things like that. Semi-sexual intimacy is touching, showering together, massage and things like that. Your marriage is suffering from a lack of other than sexual intimacy. The bed schedule is hurting this. My wife works 11 pm to 7 am, I work 9-5 so I know how this can mess you up. Honestly about a year ago I started to not want to sleep together on weekends because that intimacy was going away and the trust with it. We have to work hart to keep the level of intimacy up.

Other than sexual intimacy can be easier to get from a low drive partner if they don't get suspicious that you are just secretly trying to sneak your way to sexual intimacy. What you will get out of increasing other than sexual intimacy is more emotional involvement in the sex you are getting. not more sex. Still a worthwhile goal.

12 and 15 are not times to drop off involvement in your kids lives. These can be some very exciting and fun years. Your husband may still be feeling pressure to parent. He needs to focus some of his time on making sure his kids have happy parents instead of blame shifting, and making you out to be the bad one. 
MN


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

WOW, this just about makes me want to cry..........in a good way! There are people JUST like me and that 'get' what I am saying.............it is such a relief just to be able to SAY all of this and get objective opinions and to hear that I am not off-base on everything.

FWife, I don't know how the kids would know that there isn't much intimacy, as we don't share too much in that area with them and how would they know? Maybe I am missing out on something or are they truly THAT perceptive? I would not want to model a marriage for them that would create any future sense of 'what's normal' when it's not, but I honestly don't think they pick up on any of that.

Anon, I am convinced there is no porn. At one time he was having a close 'friend' relationship with a co-worker, but I shut that down (they were texting WAYYYYY too much for just a friendship). I pay the bills, so I see no more of that going on with his phone. I don't think the depression applies either, so I could be dealing with just a difficult situation.

Karole, I absolutely have NEVER thought about writing a letter. BUT I MIGHT NOW! I will be nervous as heck to give it to him knowing it might not be well-received, but what have I got to lose? I VERY, very seriously might do this........and will time it when there is not a lot of other stressful stuff going on (as best I can........seems like there is always something).


MissScarlet, I just wonder if I do wait it out, if THAT Is when things improve..........when it is just he and I and he doesn't have the diversion of the kids? If I give up NOW and turns out later WOULD have been the time he chose to invest in me, then I would have made a poor choice to leave. But of course I could be wrong on my theory and when they are gone, he is STILL uninterested. It's just a gamble. I'm sorry you are in that same situation.

Buddy, 180............I need to read up on that and yes, it sounds like it might be in order. That was one of the options the counselor gave.

Holland, his parents divorced............his dad left his mom for someone else. My parents are going on year 49.

4x4, THANK YOU. I feel overwhelming relief as I mentioned above, just KNOWING I am not the only one.

MrNails, yes, those figures are surprising. And I am happy the weeks it is 1x a week. NOt THRILLED, but will take that over the every-other-week schedule. But again, if he is doing it out of 'obligation', then I guess I would rather have ZERO. It is a crucial time for our kids, I honestly believe that........especially with some issues one of them is having. I couldn't live with myself if I contributed in any way to that child struggling even more. I get the whole attitude of him being 'suspicious' if I try to get anything close to intimacy - and that's not what I am shooting for, but that's how he takes it. It's just overwhelming to know what to do or not do anymore.

FORGOT TO SAY, when I had the confrontation and told him I was going to see an attorney, he never even said he would miss me, how he loved me, couldn't live without me, or anything like that..........he just asked how I could do this to the kids AND that he wasn't giving up everything he worked for (( NO MENTION of me and him at all. I know he loves me, but that kind of hurt, too..............it's like all of the reasons he didn't want me to go, NONE were about me and him (( 

Thank you for listening, everyone. It truly helps getting this out ).


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So once you backed down, where there any ramifications for trying again? Like counseling, promising to make an effort, anything? Or did it just get swept under the rug?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> FWife, I don't know how the kids would know that there isn't much intimacy, as we don't share too much in that area with them and how would they know? *Maybe I am missing out on something or are they truly THAT perceptive?* I would not want to model a marriage for them that would create any future sense of 'what's normal' when it's not, but I honestly don't think they pick up on any of that.
> 
> Anon, I am convinced there is no porn. * At one time he was having a close 'friend' relationship with a co-worker, but I shut that down (they were texting WAYYYYY too much for just a friendship). I pay the bills, so I see no more of that going on with his phone. * I don't think the depression applies either, so I could be dealing with just a difficult situation.
> 
> ...


First bold: they're shockingly perceptive. Don't underestimate them.

Second bold: This raises my hackles. Details?

Third bold: Don't stake your happiness on what's basically a gamble. You have no idea whether or not your husband might "come around" someday on his own. His current behavior does not indicate that he will. You have to base your decisions today on his behavior today. Don't try to be Nostradamus.

Last bold: This is very troubling as well. Did you two ever talk more about this incident? Or did he just rugsweep it after he called your bluff? Did he seem at all interested in WHY you were threatening to leave?


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> Anon, I am convinced there is no porn. At one time he was having a close 'friend' relationship with a co-worker, but I shut that down (they were texting WAYYYYY too much for just a friendship). I pay the bills, so I see no more of that going on with his phone. I don't think the depression applies either, so I could be dealing with just a difficult situation.


This one is setting off alarm bells with TAM readers all over I'm sure. How long ago was this and could it have moved to online chat? Any chance of a new online friend? 

Even knowing how LD my wife naturally is, I had to do some snooping myself to at least feel confident it's not a current problem. I can never be 100% certain of the past, but I'm confident in the present. Infidelity has to be ruled out with as much certainty as possible.

You are most welcome and glad/sad you are here with us. That part I bolded earlier has been written by many of us almost word for word.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> I keep thinking that MAYBE, if I can just hold out until the oldest is gone THEN I can do it with no regrets - and that's IF it doesn't improve. I am still going to continue to find ways to make it improve as best as I possibly can with only one person making an effort. And knowing that if it doesn't, I will have nothing holding me back in six years. I will be 54 by then! I feel like I'll be too old to making such a change, but I also probably won't care by then if it stays the same. What are some thoughts on this strategy???


This is the strategy I'm employing now. I only have two years to go, but will also be 54 when it's time to pull the trigger.

What this has done for me is make the day-to-day resentment easier to tolerate. Even though the light at the end of the tunnel is small and far away, it's a real comfort to know that this kind of passionless life doesn't have to be forever.

In that time, things may change. Maybe my wife will drive the road to Damascus and be blinded by a divine light that will make her sexually attracted to me. Maybe I'll lose my balls in a freak hunting accident and not care about a genuine sexual relationship any longer. But I also know that I have worked hard for decades to improve things and that further work will yield no improvement.

I'm sure that you, like me, will fear that at our age it might not be possible to find someone to experience sexual passion with. But at some point, you may realize that even the hope for a real relationship is worth more than what you have now.

I feel for you and wish you all the best.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> FWife, I don't know how the kids would know that there isn't much intimacy, as we don't share too much in that area with them and how would they know? Maybe I am missing out on something or are they truly THAT perceptive? I would not want to model a marriage for them that would create any future sense of 'what's normal' when it's not, but I honestly don't think they pick up on any of that.


But they are picking up on the fact that your marriage is "sterile".

Because it is, correct?

I'm assuming your husband doesn't swoop in and take you in his arms and plant big kisses on you while he dips you in front of them, right?

But THAT is how you model a good married sex life for your kids. You make open displays of enthusiastic affection and admiration and even sexual flirting.

If you aren't doing that...ever...then you are presenting a sterile picture of married sex to your kids.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> *WOW, this just about makes me want to cry..........in a good way! There are people JUST like me and that 'get' what I am saying.............it is such a relief just to be able to SAY all of this and get objective opinions and to hear that I am not off-base on everything.*
> 
> ............................................
> 
> Thank you for listening, everyone. It truly helps getting this out ).


I recall going for years thinking "is it me?, Am I the only one whos HB is not all over her?". Damn that, I am attractive, a good, loyal, honest, loving woman. I had men chasing me my whole life before I married the ex, I could not deal with his rejection of me. But when it dawned on me that he was getting all his needs met, house wife, friend, mother to his kids etc I started to understand just how selfish this man was. OK a very good, hard working man but selfish none the less.

OP you are in very good company, sadly there are many others out there that have walked in your shoes. Each situation is different but also the same so yes we "get it". Stay strong and know that this is more about his issues than you personally.

I asked about his parents because this was a big factor with my ex. As FW says, the parents model what is a healthy or unhealthy marriage to their kids, my ex had passive aggressive parents who stayed married till death in a loveless/sexless marriage. If I knew then what I know now then I would never have married such a damaged man.

And yes children are very perceptive, adults can argue that all they like but the reality is that parents model marriage to their kids and set them up for a life of pain when they do not model a healthy version of marriage.

That is a huge part of the reason I divorced my ex, the thought of my kids thinking that loveless/passionless marriage was OK was the push that I needed. I want my kids to know that they have every right to be in a marriage full of love and passion, a real union not a union that is hollow.

The kids now see me with my partner, the man I love with all my heart. They see us hugging, kissing, being affectionate together and they are happy that I am alive again.


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

Sorry I don't know how to use the direct quotes yet :scratchhead:

PBear, he did try to make an effort and started approaching me more often, but it lasted about a month and then it was back to the norm. And every time I just had this 'gut feel' that he really felt obligated, and was no way doing it because he really truly wanted to.

Fozzy, thanks for your feedback on all of that. We never talked about that incident again except him saying if I ever tried to leave again, it would be the last time it would be brought up and I better be sure (which I understand that..........I would have said the same to him........wouldn't want the 'threat' of someone leaving looming over my head). More on the 'friend' in a minute.

4X4 - he had over 1400 text messages in a month to a co-worker, and he admitted to it reluctantly when I asked him about it that it was over the line, but he said he was helping her through a rough patch with her boyfriend. I asked him to cut contact on a personal level and he did immediately. The very next day, there were NO MORE messages to and from them, I know from the phone bill. This was about a year ago.

Big Dude - I am thinking the same thing. At least with this as a possible strategy, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. And you are right, taking the risk and finding nothing is probably better than what I am living through right now.

FWife, I see what you are saying. NO, that isn't the atmosphere here at all. I would LOVE something like what you describe. He would make my dream come true if he created that environment!

Holland, not to sound like I think I am all that (I'm not), but I have a fair share of guys flirting with me in all different situations. Of course I am not interested. But it lets me know that I am not unattractive. I would LOVE for him to pay that kind of attention to me. It is breaking my heart ((( And you know what? He IS getting all of his needs met, you are exactly right! I do ALL of that for him and more. And his needs are met. So why can't mine be? That IS in a way selfish when I look at it like that.

Wow. I have a lot of things to process right now.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

GP it is OK to say that you are an attractive woman, never let yourself get so beaten down that you lose your confidence. I got to that point and along with it I got ill, lost 1/3 of my hair (and I have beautiful, long thick hair), started getting chest pains and other ailments. 
I live a different life now, my hair is back to beautiful, I slowly got my confidence back and I now live by the motto "life is short, enjoy it". I am also very staunch in the concept of "fix it or move on", there was no middle ground for me when I had the lightning bolt realisation that I was letting my life be wasted.

Yes you have a lot to process, there is no need to make any hasty decisions or drastic actions. Talking to others that have been or are still where you are at is good. A network of support is a good thing.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

GP, how long ago was this contact with his coworker? Does he still work with this person? 

Here's my take on this. People don't spend that much time "helping" a coworker through a rough patch in a relationship without there being something in it for them. I have female coworkers that are going through rough patches. I don't even have their phone numbers, nor do i want them. I wish them well, but that's as far involved as i get. 

1400 text messages in one month is not offering advice, it's an emotional attachment. If he's coworkers with this woman, it doesn't mean he stopped contact just because the texting stopped, because they still work together.

I'm sorry but this behavior, the thing with the kids, and the fact that he basically told you off over the divorce threat and more or less dared you to follow through rather than take the opportunity to strengthen the relationship.....I don't see this as being a healthy relationship for you to stay in as it presently stands.


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## GeorgiaPeach415 (Sep 16, 2014)

Thank you, Holland. It is not easy to know what to do. I typically like to just fix something or move on, but with this, I am just what seems like frozen, as I've been mentally sorting through all of this going on three years. You would think I would have reached some kind of resolution before now, but I am just as confused now as I was back then (

Fozzy, YES, I absolutely know 1400 messages in a month was more than advice. Which is why I called him on it. It was about a year ago. They still do work together. But he has told me it stopped and everything is professional. They don't have anywhere they could go to talk privately at work without it causing suspicions, so I do truly believe that anything that is said at work is strictly work because of that reason. It would NOT look good for them to talk that frequently one-on-one. I did print out PROOF of all of it in case I ever needed it (not the messages themselves, but just the log that shows how many were coming in and going out and to what number). I will hang on to that indefinitely in case I ever need it. I have no idea, though, if any of what is going on recently is connected to that. It seems like it couldn't be as it was a year ago AND this kind of stuff has been going on for much longer. He did immediately cease the messaging as soon as I called him on it. The records show that he did. Regardless of this situation, the rest of it is NOT healthy, I agree. 

Thinking through what each and every one of you has said! And grateful for the feedback!


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

You're doing great Peach! Thanks to Simply Amorous I like to think of posts as little bricks of love. Sometimes they hurt when they hit their target, but we need those bricks thrown at us to make us think.

Holland on the other hand, wields a giant baseball bat of love. She'll just come to a thread swinging, and I love her posts for it. :lol::lol:


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Your husband sounds like a classic Narcissist. You have every right to be upset.

His constant neglect of your needs is a form of abuse. Up until now he has no reason to change.

I presume you cook and clean up after him, do his laundry, and ironing.

In my humble opinion i would stop doing this for him until such time that he can engage you like an adult regarding this issue.

He deliberately starts a big blow up when you bring this up to deter you from bringing up this subject.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You say how great he is and then go on to describe a really terrible person and husband. To whit:
-- He had an affair
-- He knows what you need but refuses to meet your needs in marriage even though he is getting his needs met by you.
-- He manipulated you by undermining his kids sense of security in the world.
-- He continues to manipulate you by making you feel that you are wrong, your are gulity of something, you are bad, when it is he who is wrong, he who should feel guilty and he is bad.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

GeorgiaPeach415 said:


> No, Buddy..........absolutely no performance issues whatsoever, just not really enthusiastic once anything happens, and initiates very infrequently ((
> 
> PBear, I am 99% sure there is NO porn involved. It just wouldn't interest him. Just like me walking in front of him in next to nothing would not create a stir.


check again. Porn is a late night magnet for men. He may just wait until he hears you snoring, then its *party time!*


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