# I'm Lost: Wife Threesome



## GuyFawkes

This is my first post, so hello TAM community! A friend of mine recommended I share my story on here and hopefully you guys can help. I apologize if this is a bit long, but this is the story of my wife having a threesome with her friend and another guy...and the threesome we had afterwards.

Background: 

Married 8 years, 33 years old, two kids. We've been together for almost 16 years. We've been there for one another through everything in our lives. I have been unfaithful in my younger years before we were married, I had sex with a handful of women, after marriage I grew out of it and have been completely faithful. She had a short month long affair about 6 years ago with another man...it was hell. After months and months of talking and pain, I forgave her and we moved on; I thought that it honestly strengthened out marriage, things have been AMAZING since then. I did tell her afterwards... if she ever lied/cheated on me again we would be done. 

We moved out of state and into a new place over a year ago, we developed a friendship with another couple. We would hangout, have fun, drink some drinks...but whenever we did, my wife and the other guys wife would sometimes get a bit crazy. When they'd drink, they'd get really touchy feely....skinny dip in the pool...that sort of thing. It didn't bother me at the time, I just chalked it up to drunk girls having fun and it was kind of hot (it did upset the other husband though). About a month ago, the other couple separated and the husband moved away (was a really toxic relationship).

The beginning of the Night:

A few weeks ago my wife and her friend went out for a girls night....while I stayed at home and watched all of the kids. At the time I was completely fine with it, I had complete trust in my wife, I told them to have fun. I also half expected they would come home a bit tipsy that night and a threesome was highly possible (I was even excited about the idea, something neither my wife or I have ever attempted...but often spoke about). My instincts were right, I just wasn't the one involved. That night her friend invited a few coworkers out with them, along with a guy she had a crush on. At the end of the night they were to drunk to drive home, so the guy drove them (My wifes friend lives a few doors down from us). 

During the entire night she was sending me texts. I was getting increasingly upset because I felt like it was just the two of them going out having dinner and a bottle of wine. When it hit around 1am I started texting her.

A few of her texts:

"we are just having a good time it's not bad. If I felt uncomfortable I would be on my way home immediately"

"you're the most important thing to me, it's just a fun night out with a friend"

"I'm not lying, (insert friends name) wants to hang out and it's going to be a good night. We are about to leave"

"We havent done anything wrong, we are on our way home in a few. She's around a guy she is interested in"

"We are almost there. We left her car"

"Are the kids all there?"

Her last text was around 1:30am. The guy drove them home. During the ride home my wifes friend jumped in the back seat, takes her dress off, they begin groping and making out. 

Threesome:

They all arrive back home to her friends house. After the heavy make out session, my wife says "alright I'm going home". Her friend say's "No, come and hang out, lets have one more drink", my wife goes into the house with both of them (wrong decision). Meanwhile, I'm sitting at home, watching a movie with all the kids. I eventually throw out a text around 3am, "wtf where are you". No reply. I eventually walk over to her friends house, the door is locked, shoes are on the front porch. I begin ringing the door bell, knocking on the door. My heart had sunk into my stomach, I knew she was cheating on me with her girl friend. After about 5 minutes, my wife finally answers the door and has that "oh god I just f'd up look" on her face, with the crazy sex hair to go with it. I walk into the house, wife follows. No ones in the living area. I start to walk up stairs and my wife turns to me and say's "there's a guy up there". I get up stairs her friend is naked and trying to get dressed, I ask..."is there a guy in here"? "NO". I look around and eventually find a guy hiding in the closest. It took every part of my soul not to beat him to a pulp. I just said F it, walked back down stairs...screamed at my wife...then left. 

Aftermath: 

When we got back home that night, I let loose...did a lot of yelling. She was super wasted and I was in a ton of pain. "How could you do this, blah blah blah", type of talk. Anyhow, the next few days we talked/I interrogated her. She claims at no point did she ever touch the guy or did he touch her, she wasn't attracted to him. For her it was only about her girl friend. It was super exciting, passionate, fun for her and in her F'd up mind she felt it wasn't bad because it was with a girl...something I've never seemed to mind (her words). She completely ignored the guy was even there. The details she gave me: she had her dress on, but pulled it down over her breasts and had her panties off, they kissed, fingered each other, groped each other...her friend ate her out while the other guy banged her friend. At one point her friend asked my wife to suck his penis with her, that it was her fantasy...my wife said no. She also told me at some point she said I would divorce her while this was all going on. My question to her was: "When you got out of that car, why didn't you make the right choice and come home?" Something she really doesn't have an answer too. She blames how drunk she was, lost in the moment, and that something must be wrong with her to be able to so easily hurt me the way she did. I'm just a few houses down, I knew she was on her way home...she didnt even try to hide it? WTF

I completely understand trickle truth and there's a super high possibility that's what she's doing. But I tend to believe all the details she's given me (she was honest about her affair in the past). Although, they were over there for almost 2 hours and I'm expected to believe this guy was just sitting on the sidelines the majority of the time while my wife and her friend went at it? Not that it really even matters. What she did is still terrible and cheating. She betrayed me, again. 


My threesome:

So over the course of talking throughout the week, I came to the conclusion I either accept her for who she is or move on. It's extremely hard to move on, we have a beautiful family together and I think we both love each other in the ways we know how. Now she seems to be struggling with the idea that she's bisexual, something she never realized in the past. Having a threesome is something her and I have spoken about and it does excite me...so I said F it, might as well try and see if something positive can result from all of this hell. I had her reach out to her friend, we all hung out, had some drinks (a lot of drinks), and talked about what happened. Her friend gave me her side of the story... apologized, blah blah. Eventually we all went up stairs, took a bath together...moved it into the bedroom. We're all naked, they both gave me oral for a bit...I had sex with my wife while they made out...but wasnt able to keep an erection. After that, it was all them. My wife basically forgot I existed and was completely into her friend. Her friend said a few times "touch your husband" "show him some attention". So I basically just sat on the sidelines for a while watching how passionate they were together (makes her other threesome story more believable). Like I was witnessing my wife cheat in front of me with my permission. I felt this was a bad idea going in...but thought i'd give it a try. It felt like I was reliving a murder scene, I couldnt get into it, had to many thoughts running through my head, and didnt feel comfortable touching her friend. Eventually I said, this isn't right....and left. Afterwards my wife apologized, again using her drinking as an excuse. "That's not what I wanted, I wanted us all to be together and enjoy it". Anyhow, at this point...I'm lost and a bit f'd up. I can keep this going...have my wife end her friendship and try to go back to what we had...or just leave her.

I don't want to sweep this under the rug but at the same time in some f'd up way this is exciting me. If she just would have been open and honest about this it would have been so much better. The betrayal is what's really making everything so hard.


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## sandcastle

GuyFawkes said:


> At the time I was completely fine with it, I had complete trust in my wife, I told them to have fun. I also half expected they would come home a bit tipsy that night and a threesome was highly possible (d.



Oh! 
So you got all revved up for a threesome that YOU controlled.

But your wife obviously did not want you included in the fun.

Did I get that right?


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## GuyFawkes

sandcastle said:


> Oh!
> So you got all revved up for a threesome that YOU controlled.
> 
> But your wife obviously did not want you included in the fun.
> 
> Did I get that right?


My main concern is honesty.


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## Lostinthought61

Guy, 

Interesting nome de plume since it did not end well for the real Guy, being torn apart literally. So Guy do you want to stay married? Does your wife want to stay married? Because you let that genie out of the bottle with your last threesome siding on the sideline. There is no higher road here.


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## sandcastle

GuyFawkes said:


> My main concern is honesty.



Like I said- it was sexy, hot and delish until it did NOT include you and you did not control the sexy 2 girls on YOU threesome.

What is at all honest with sharing the mother of your children with ANYBODY.

Oh yeah- here comes the the kink brigade.

Honesty? Situational? She did not want YOU a part of her sexytime.

Perhaps the MC can work that out for the two of you.


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## marriageontherocks2

Your wife doesn't sound like marriage material at all. She already had an affair, she should not be going out on GNO's to clubs until 2:00 am in the first place. she now cheated on you again. Why do you think she'll change?

Also she definitely sucked that dudes **** and banged him, no doubt.

If you stay married you'll be right back here every few years.


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## sandcastle

sandcastle said:


> Oh!
> So you got all revved up for a threesome that YOU controlled.
> 
> But your wife obviously did not want you included in the fun.
> 
> Did I get that right?


She was marriage material as long as HE was partaking of the super sexy threesome that he controlled. That included HIM.

Now that he is obviously OUT- he is here whining.


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## NoChoice

OP,
Your "arousal" stems from an ancient program written into our psyche over the millions of years of evolution whereby our progeny would proliferate. It is not cognizant but rather instinctual. You allowed (or could not control) the instinctual to override the the cognitive, in the beginning. As the tryst continued your cognition caught up and took over and you became falccid as your mind tried to process what your instinct had initiated. That explains your reaction. Now what of your wife?

She seems too immature yet for monogamy. In order for monogamy to be viable one must have the cognition to overcome instinct. In your case your though caught up with your instinct but in your W's case it took much longer, in fact not occurring until the instinctual had been satisfied. This is hugely problematic for a monogamous relationship. For her to change it would require a fundamental shift in her processing hierarchy which is all but impossible. It is possible, though highly unlikely, that she may eventually mature into this but in the interim it will be quite difficult to maintain your relationship.

If you wish to try, and to not have a repeat of events, then you will have to govern her life since she is incapable of self governance. She does realize this as evidenced by her statement that something is wrong with her. She is quite right. You will have to assume the role of pseudo parent and restrict her life accordingly. You will have to set "rules" for her to follow and limits on her freedom. If she truly sees her failings then she may go along for your sake and the sake of the marriage. If she does not, then she may feign acceptance, for a time, and then revert back to her previous behavior either overtly or covertly.

As to her bisexuality that is not relevant as cheating is cheating the gender of the other person notwithstanding, so that is a moot point. So it now falls to you as to what you will/can accept inasmuch as you care to keep the marriage. If not, then you will have to move on. Also, if she is not accepting of her limitations and the "rules" you must enact to protect the marriage, then the events will repeat, sooner or later.

I must caution you that taking on the role of parent in a marriage is soul draining. It wreaks havoc, causes resentment and is exhausting, so assume that station at your own risk.


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## chillymorn69

The old threesome fail.

I don't see a way to put pandora back in the box.

Time to have the I don't want to be married to a lesbian talk and divorce as amicable as possible!


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## 269370

Yeah...I heard that’s what ACTUAL threesomes are exactly like: someone sitting in the corner eating a ****sandwich.
They work better as a fantasy.
Sorry man. Just don’t agree to anything you are not comfortable with next time. At least it wasn’t with another guy...(is that sexist? As in, women look better during sex...)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sandcastle

chillymorn69 said:


> The old threesome fail.
> 
> I don't see a way to put pandora back in the box.
> 
> Time to have the I don't want to be married to a lesbian



This has zero to do with being " married to a lesbian."


This is mainstream and has nothing to to do with sexual preference.


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## David51

Whenever you bring a 3rd person into you sex life you are flirting with disaster.
You have a problem. Living with someone you know is having sex without you is called room mates not marriage. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## FieryHairedLady

Marriage is for 2 people, not 3.


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## chillymorn69

sandcastle said:


> This has zero to do with being " married to a lesbian."
> 
> 
> This is mainstream and has nothing to to do with sexual preference.


Mainstream?

I don't know abour mainstream. What is exactly mainstream about your wife desiring the same sex?

She ignored him and went at it with passion !

If that is main stream then I guess I just a old fassion heterosexual.


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## sandcastle

chillymorn69 said:


> Mainstream?
> 
> 
> 
> If that is main stream then I guess I just a old fassion heterosexual.


Sadly- you are entirely out of touch.


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## chillymorn69

sandcastle said:


> Sadly- you are entirely out of touch.


Out of touch?

Well educate me.

Am I out of touch because I would want my woman to be hetro?

Am I out of touch because that would be a boundry of mine?


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## VladDracul

Take my word for it. When there is a MFF threesome and the two chicks get together, the man may a well have a seat and watch the show. He's the furthest thing from their minds and its a real effort on their part to include him even in a small way. Their focus is on each other. The girls are doing what they are doing because they like other girls. The old saying the women control half the money and and all the puzzy is especially true in this scenario, highlighting the puzzy part. The only thing that surprises me is that the friend chick even knew the OM was doing her while she was working on the wife (or visa versa) at the "first" threesome. 
Now, whether I think...... heck, I ain't suppose to go there so I won't.


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## GusPolinski

I’d like for everyone — especially OP — to entertain the very likely possibility that his wife is lying about the nature of the initial threesome: OM banged both women like a drum, and the follow-up was nothing more than a performance on the part of both women to sell the lie.

OP, if you’re going to reconcile (and seriously, why bother), your wife’s friendship with this other woman has to be over, and your wife has to give it up _willingly_. Even if the story they’re telling is true, she (the OW) not only encouraged your wife to cheat on you with another man, she was actually an active participant in said cheating.

She’s no friend to your marriage, and it’s either time for her to go, or it’s time for your marriage to be over.


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## sandcastle

chillymorn69 said:


> Out of touch?
> 
> Well educate me.
> 
> Am I out of touch because I would want my woman to be hetro?
> 
> Am I out of touch because that would be a boundry of mine?



You are out of touch because you think a threesome involving two women and a man means the two women are lesbians.


Really- this suburban 2 soccer moms on soccer dad is so yesterday and vanilla.


I'm not finding fault with you I'm just giving you a reality check.


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## chillymorn69

sandcastle said:


> You are out of touch because you think a threesome involving two women and a man means the two women are lesbians.
> 
> 
> Really- this suburban 2 soccer moms on soccer dad is so yesterday and vanilla.
> 
> 
> I'm not finding fault with you I'm just giving you a reality check.


Thanks for the reality check.

I guess. 


In my humble opinion being bisexual is a deal breaker for me espically if cheating is involved .

Its one thing for your wife to say she gets turned on by women its a totally different thing to actively act on it to the demise of your partner.


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## VladDracul

sandcastle said:


> Sadly- you are entirely out of touch.


Not really. The typical heterosexual woman is no more likely to participate in same sex activities than the typical heterosexual male.


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## VladDracul

GusPolinski said:


> She’s no friend to your marriage, and it’s either time for her to go, or it’s time for your marriage to be over.


Youre directly on point. My comment is that if a wife (or husband) as the case may be, can be roped into such an arrangement, question their commitment and loyalty. You'll find them lacking. My take is this chick doesn't appear to be a one man woman.


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## sandcastle

VladDracul said:


> Not really. The typical heterosexual woman is no more likely to participate in same sex activities than the typical heterosexual male.



I guess I just live in an entirely not typical place with entirely untypical women and men that basically drives the US economy.

And HW lives there!

So- see you and wifey at the strip club where all the cool kids hang out!

Maybe you can meet someone who belongs to that really secret sexclub in LA!

Hetro only!


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## VladDracul




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## GuyFawkes

Thanks for all the comments everyone. I feel like this post has a bit too much back and forth fighting though. I came here for help/advice so please try to stay on topic. I think all of us are here because we were hurt at one point. The definition of marriage isn’t the same for everyone, so try to respect that. 

To sum things up a bit, this is all so fresh and I feel it’s hard to think clearly. To me, after the affair 6 years ago, she’s be an amazing wife and mother. I truly love this woman, that’s what makes all of this so hard. I thought she learned from her mistakes. To be clear, what I’m upset about is the betrayal. How easily it was for her, shiiiiitfaced or not, to put our family at risk and hurt me the way she did. Otherwise, if she wanted to include another woman into our sex life, I’m about as open as they come. All she had to do is talk to me and be honest about it. The other guy being involved is just a bonus FU to me...I just think WTF was she thinking? I honestly believe for her in that moment it was all about her girl friend, it wasn’t planned, it just happened (while a naked guy swung his D around). She say’s she’s only attracted to me and loves the sex we have, she’s NOT interested in other men. It just doesn’t make sense to me, this isn’t the woman I know? I literally could have went over there at any moment. I’m not sure the fact she made it so easy to catch her is a good thing or not (neither are good). In one way, it shows she was out of control drunk and made a dumb decision without thinking about the consequences. On the other hand it shows she just didn’t give a F (which she definitely does now). 

Our attempt at a threesome I got to see first hand how that worked out. She was wasted, could barely even walk, and was completely obsessed with her friend (drinking may be the underlying problem in all of this). We talked about it beforehand the night before while having sex and it immediately made her soaking wet. In her mind, she wanted it to be ALL three of us. I think had she not been wasted, it would have been much better. Regardless though, I feel like that’s just me distracting myself to the real problem...her betrayal. 


At this point, my wife will do whatever I ask of her. If I want her to end all contact with her friend, she will. If I want to start a 3 way relationship with her and her friend, she’s down. Although the idea of me being with her friend one on one hurts her, which slightly amuses me. It’s ok for her to F her friend, but the very idea of me F’ing her...causes her pain. This in my eyes show’s how selfish she is. I think apart of me just wants her to experience the pain I’m feeling, to “teach her a lesson”. Which if I’m being rational just sounds toxic. I’m really confused as to what direction I want to take this.

@sandcastle nothing you have said is constructive, I’d appreciate if you just ignored my post. 
@marriageonetherocks2 100% agree, that’s what I’m struggling with. I think 99% of the time she’s an amazing person...I’ve even told her before all this, I trust her completely, just not when she’s drunk. Is she marriage material...probably not after this, will she change, probably not...I hope so at least for my kids sake. And yes, she probably did mess around with the dude as well 
@NoChoice I feel like Spock has come alive and given me valuable information. I appreciate your post. I understand human nature. In my eyes monogamy is a societal construct...humans aren’t monogamous by nature. I agree about you point, “she’s not mature enough for monogamy”. Otherwise she wouldn’t have put herself in this situation. I do not want to be her overseer. 
@GusPolinski I’ve done more than entertain the idea...i think it’s highly likely that’s what happened. This guy went home with two drunken hot chicks who were wild...no way he’s just going to sit on the sideline. My wife told me she repeatedly said “don’t touch me”. The follow up wasn’t a performance, if anything it was their way of “trying” to make it up to me. They were both way to drunk to “sell a lie”, the truth of the matter is they both have a deep passion for one another. Agreed, her friend has zero respect for our marriage...or the consequences of their actions in that moment. Neither did my wife.


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## Rick Blaine

OP,
You are both serial cheaters. You slept around before marriage; she did so after. Then you were open to a tryst where you could get some from two women. So unless you are open to an to open marriage which your responses indicate you are not, then this won't work out. I feel really bad for your kids. 

The only way to save this is both of you to set firm boundaries, eliminate this other lady from your life, and never go out partying with other people. Eliminate drinking too. That is the narrow path that serial cheaters must follow and they must do it for life. Are you willing? Is she?


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## marriageontherocks2

sandcastle said:


> Sadly- you are entirely out of touch.


I don't think he is, it's largely about the company you keep. 6 heroin addicts sit around and probably think "everyone does heroin". Heavy drinkers keep company with other heavy drinkers and it appears normal. People into sex activities like same sex 3 somes, MMF, FFM hang out with other swingers so they think it's a common activity and everyone does it. But really it's still very much in the minority of marriages that are open or swing.


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## Rick Blaine

GuyFawkes said:


> It’s ok for her to F her friend, but the very idea of me F’ing her...causes her pain. This in my eyes show’s how selfish she is.


Do you see the hypocrisy here? You got excited over the chance to bang two women but when the situation was flipped and another man was involved you were upset. 

And Gus is right. She and that other guy most likely did have sex. Cheaters ALWAYS lie. You are in denial.


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## 2ntnuf

How well did her and the friend do together on you? You asked for help knowing the truth. If they banged their heads together and smiled and giggled, well, they probably never did it together before. It is a wild guess, but I think you can imagine how it would be for any two women doing that the first time.

In fact, how well did the work on each other? They could easily have been pulling this off for a long time. Seems like her husband knew how she was and got out of that marriage. I just can't imagine someone jumping in the back seat while going down the road from the club. I think this started earlier at the club. 

You have some thinking to do. I might be tempted to get them together and capture video of them goin' at it. You can figure out what to tell them. I think you might need it to get the kids or keep from getting ruined in divorce. I don't see this working out well in the long run. 

Stranger things have happened. You could work it out.

Edit: Don't forget to get permission and read up on capturing video and sound in your state. Ask an attorney, if you want it explained.


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## Diana7

She is a cheater, whether its with a man or woman its still cheating. The fact that you are willing to have another person in the marriage shows that faithfulness isn't important to you and it clearly isn't to her either. Either you live in an unfaithful marriage or you end it, but bringing another into a marriage is always a really bad idea.


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## drifting on

Do not tell your wife, schedule a polygraph and tell her when you are in the parking lot. You will get the truth then, but still have her take the poly to confirm what she just told you. You can pm me for questions since she has cheated in the past.


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## oldshirt

If she was "repeatedly" telling him not to touch her, that means he was touching her.......repeatedly.

And it means she stayed in bed while he was touching her and did not leave the scene.

Words mean nothing.

Actions mean everything.

Her actions are that she remained in a bed having sexual contact with another man and another woman, even if those words did come out of her mouth.


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## oldshirt

As far as what to do about it, go to the mountain and meditate and soul-search and determine if you even want to stay together.

She needs to do the same thing.

If both of you decide to try to remain a couple, you will need professional therapy and will need to hit the 'reset' button on your marriage and completely redesign it from the ground up and establish a completely new set of boundaries and expectations.

In the mean time while this is taking place, I would advise seeing a divorce attorney and circling your wagons to protect your legal and financial rights and protect your assets and access to your children.

You need to be prepared for and have a plan in place in case she decides she'd rather have party girl lifestyle or takes off with this gal or the OM. 

You don't want her to drain all your accounts and take off with the kids one day and stick you with all the bills and debts.


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## CuddleBug

GuyFawkes said:


> This is my first post, so hello TAM community! A friend of mine recommended I share my story on here and hopefully you guys can help. I apologize if this is a bit long, but this is the story of my wife having a threesome with her friend and another guy...and the threesome we had afterwards.
> 
> Background:
> 
> Married 8 years, 33 years old, two kids. We've been together for almost 16 years. We've been there for one another through everything in our lives. I have been unfaithful in my younger years before we were married, I had sex with a handful of women, after marriage I grew out of it and have been completely faithful. She had a short month long affair about 6 years ago with another man...it was hell. After months and months of talking and pain, I forgave her and we moved on; I thought that it honestly strengthened out marriage, things have been AMAZING since then. I did tell her afterwards... if she ever lied/cheated on me again we would be done.
> 
> We moved out of state and into a new place over a year ago, we developed a friendship with another couple. We would hangout, have fun, drink some drinks...but whenever we did, my wife and the other guys wife would sometimes get a bit crazy. When they'd drink, they'd get really touchy feely....skinny dip in the pool...that sort of thing. It didn't bother me at the time, I just chalked it up to drunk girls having fun and it was kind of hot (it did upset the other husband though). About a month ago, the other couple separated and the husband moved away (was a really toxic relationship).
> 
> The beginning of the Night:
> 
> A few weeks ago my wife and her friend went out for a girls night....while I stayed at home and watched all of the kids. At the time I was completely fine with it, I had complete trust in my wife, I told them to have fun. I also half expected they would come home a bit tipsy that night and a threesome was highly possible (I was even excited about the idea, something neither my wife or I have ever attempted...but often spoke about). My instincts were right, I just wasn't the one involved. That night her friend invited a few coworkers out with them, along with a guy she had a crush on. At the end of the night they were to drunk to drive home, so the guy drove them (My wifes friend lives a few doors down from us).
> 
> During the entire night she was sending me texts. I was getting increasingly upset because I felt like it was just the two of them going out having dinner and a bottle of wine. When it hit around 1am I started texting her.
> 
> A few of her texts:
> 
> "we are just having a good time it's not bad. If I felt uncomfortable I would be on my way home immediately"
> 
> "you're the most important thing to me, it's just a fun night out with a friend"
> 
> "I'm not lying, (insert friends name) wants to hang out and it's going to be a good night. We are about to leave"
> 
> "We havent done anything wrong, we are on our way home in a few. She's around a guy she is interested in"
> 
> "We are almost there. We left her car"
> 
> "Are the kids all there?"
> 
> Her last text was around 1:30am. The guy drove them home. During the ride home my wifes friend jumped in the back seat, takes her dress off, they begin groping and making out.
> 
> Threesome:
> 
> They all arrive back home to her friends house. After the heavy make out session, my wife says "alright I'm going home". Her friend say's "No, come and hang out, lets have one more drink", my wife goes into the house with both of them (wrong decision). Meanwhile, I'm sitting at home, watching a movie with all the kids. I eventually throw out a text around 3am, "wtf where are you". No reply. I eventually walk over to her friends house, the door is locked, shoes are on the front porch. I begin ringing the door bell, knocking on the door. My heart had sunk into my stomach, I knew she was cheating on me with her girl friend. After about 5 minutes, my wife finally answers the door and has that "oh god I just f'd up look" on her face, with the crazy sex hair to go with it. I walk into the house, wife follows. No ones in the living area. I start to walk up stairs and my wife turns to me and say's "there's a guy up there". I get up stairs her friend is naked and trying to get dressed, I ask..."is there a guy in here"? "NO". I look around and eventually find a guy hiding in the closest. It took every part of my soul not to beat him to a pulp. I just said F it, walked back down stairs...screamed at my wife...then left.
> 
> Aftermath:
> 
> When we got back home that night, I let loose...did a lot of yelling. She was super wasted and I was in a ton of pain. "How could you do this, blah blah blah", type of talk. Anyhow, the next few days we talked/I interrogated her. She claims at no point did she ever touch the guy or did he touch her, she wasn't attracted to him. For her it was only about her girl friend. It was super exciting, passionate, fun for her and in her F'd up mind she felt it wasn't bad because it was with a girl...something I've never seemed to mind (her words). She completely ignored the guy was even there. The details she gave me: she had her dress on, but pulled it down over her breasts and had her panties off, they kissed, fingered each other, groped each other...her friend ate her out while the other guy banged her friend. At one point her friend asked my wife to suck his penis with her, that it was her fantasy...my wife said no. She also told me at some point she said I would divorce her while this was all going on. My question to her was: "When you got out of that car, why didn't you make the right choice and come home?" Something she really doesn't have an answer too. She blames how drunk she was, lost in the moment, and that something must be wrong with her to be able to so easily hurt me the way she did. I'm just a few houses down, I knew she was on her way home...she didnt even try to hide it? WTF
> 
> I completely understand trickle truth and there's a super high possibility that's what she's doing. But I tend to believe all the details she's given me (she was honest about her affair in the past). Although, they were over there for almost 2 hours and I'm expected to believe this guy was just sitting on the sidelines the majority of the time while my wife and her friend went at it? Not that it really even matters. What she did is still terrible and cheating. She betrayed me, again.
> 
> 
> My threesome:
> 
> So over the course of talking throughout the week, I came to the conclusion I either accept her for who she is or move on. It's extremely hard to move on, we have a beautiful family together and I think we both love each other in the ways we know how. Now she seems to be struggling with the idea that she's bisexual, something she never realized in the past. Having a threesome is something her and I have spoken about and it does excite me...so I said F it, might as well try and see if something positive can result from all of this hell. I had her reach out to her friend, we all hung out, had some drinks (a lot of drinks), and talked about what happened. Her friend gave me her side of the story... apologized, blah blah. Eventually we all went up stairs, took a bath together...moved it into the bedroom. We're all naked, they both gave me oral for a bit...I had sex with my wife while they made out...but wasnt able to keep an erection. After that, it was all them. My wife basically forgot I existed and was completely into her friend. Her friend said a few times "touch your husband" "show him some attention". So I basically just sat on the sidelines for a while watching how passionate they were together (makes her other threesome story more believable). Like I was witnessing my wife cheat in front of me with my permission. I felt this was a bad idea going in...but thought i'd give it a try. It felt like I was reliving a murder scene, I couldnt get into it, had to many thoughts running through my head, and didnt feel comfortable touching her friend. Eventually I said, this isn't right....and left. Afterwards my wife apologized, again using her drinking as an excuse. "That's not what I wanted, I wanted us all to be together and enjoy it". Anyhow, at this point...I'm lost and a bit f'd up. I can keep this going...have my wife end her friendship and try to go back to what we had...or just leave her.
> 
> I don't want to sweep this under the rug but at the same time in some f'd up way this is exciting me. If she just would have been open and honest about this it would have been so much better. The betrayal is what's really making everything so hard.




- I'm all for sexual adventurousness but when married, you don't have sex with other people. That's purposely breaking your marriage vows and committing adultery. There are very few cases of a 3 some actually working, most wind up in divorce, so why do it in the first place?


- Open dating relationship = do whatever you wish


- Married = faithful to each other mentally, sexually, everything.


- She had an affair and you worked it out and forgave her. That took balls and you are the man.


- Your wife hasn't grown up.


- She shouldn't be hanging with friends who get drunk and have 3 some's, SHE'S MARRIED WITH KIDS.


- You were the responsible one, texting her to see how's she's doing and watching the kids.


- After all this, you still have a 3 some FFM with your wife and the other woman????


- Are you crazy?


- Drinking is never an excuse for the behavior we commit. Drinking brings out who we really are with no right and wrong morals.


- If you truly love each other and respect what marriage is really about, no more 3 some's, no more hanging with those friends who get drunk and have 3 some's. All that stops 100% or get divorced already.


- Both of you get help and learn to be there for each other instead of getting drunk and sleeping with other people. WOW.


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## BadGrammar

Geez.

I probably would have ended it after the first affair. If she had shown true remorse AND if there are children involved, perhaps it would have been worth it to try to reconcile.

The first threesome with the other guy? WTF? I agree with GusPolinski that she is probably lying about not having sex with him. Even if she did not, her behavior is still inexcusable. Your marriage ended the moment she walked into that house.

The second threesome? Unbelievable. The marital bedroom is not a Saigon bordello! 

Your wife is an emotional adolescent, and you are under her control. Many here will disagree with what I am about to write, but here it goes...

In the business world, politics, etc. women have earned and therefore deserve positions of power and dominance. In the running of a household, a woman may be the most capable partner, and if she is... she should probably call the shots. However, in the bedroom a man should never surrender to the mindset of being controlled. It leads to confusion and ultimately disrespect from his partner. Our anatomy dictates our role with regard to physical intimacy. That is not to say that a woman's pleasure should not be the foremost concern of her male partner. It should. Based on my experience, the female orgasm is usually the high point of a satisfying lovemaking session. The French call the female orgasm "la petit mort"... the little death. Ideally, it signals the ultimate surrender of control to the ministrations of a fully engaged and enthusiastic partner. In the bedroom, both male and female orgasms are the culmination of a UNION of two physical beings in a highly aroused state (though frequently non-simultaneously.) 

So, in the mind movies of the past affair, the discovery of the first threesome, and in the experience of viewing your wife pleasuring and being pleasured by another woman, you are witnessing multiple unions between the one PROMISED ONLY TO YOU.... and someone else. Obviously, that promise was and continues to be a lie. Your reaction to the second threesome was not only understandable, but it should have been fully expected by both you and your wife. That you willingly participated initially is a sign of your weakness. The fact that your wife enthusiastically continued with you out of the picture shows not only total disregard for your emotional well-being, but sullied your role as a man and husband. Despite her apologetic tears, she obviously took pleasure in flaunting her control of you... body and soul. She is an unfit life partner for any man who possesses a modicum of self-respect. 

Concerning the drinking. For many, alcohol strips away the fear of consequences and emboldens the user to pursue their heart's desire. Whether drunk dialing an old fling, or hopping into bed with a stranger. The mind may be fogged, but it is determined. An intoxicated person seldom has the ability to be a good liar. The lies come when they sober up.


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## jsmart

You're here because you know in your gut that her story is bull. She banged that guy. That's why her hair was a mess. I would bet my next mortgage payment that she knew before she left the club that they were going to get busy with this guy. Then give you the usual I was not myself due to being drunk.

With her having such a wild friend that would bring strange men to their home to bang them, after knowing the guy for just a few hours, I would say there may have been other ONS with this new wild friend on the GNO. 

Allowing your formerly adulterous wife on GNO to clubs/bars is not a good idea. A wife & mother of 3 being in a obviously meat market environment until 2 am is a red flag. 

Your fantasy of a threesome, should stay as that, a fantasy. This forum and similar forums, have MANY threads of people bringing more people into their sex life. It usually ends very badly, especially for the husband. A wife wants to know you treasure her. If you're willing to share her, then she's not your treasure. Your wife is supposed to be your Queen not a tool that can be lent out in the hopes of being allowed to borrow someone else's.

I highly recommend that you do a poly to prove the no sex claim and if she has had other affairs or ONS in the past 6 years.


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## SunCMars

I did not post on here.
Because I did not want to be taken to the woodshed and scolded by a masked, rake, Libertine.
A Guy Fawkes presenter.

That, I'm sure, would piss me off.


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## doconiram

OP, your wife is BSing you. There is more to the story than you are being told. If you want the rest, go with the polygraph idea. 

Although, does it really matter? 

She must have a lot of respect for you to keep you at home watching the kids, sounds like you may have been babysitting the other wench's kids to? So they could go out and participate in group sex. Nice.

Your wife's friend- is no friend. She is a threat to your marriage and family and your wife is no model parent/spouse.

Think about the example being set.

GTFO of this mess ASAP.

Bringing in an extra person into a marriage is asking for trouble... your wife found a way to bring in two extra people. She lied to you all night long setting up her fun. Do you really think she didn't know where things were going after the car ride when she went inside the house? She must not like you at all. She certainly has zero respect for you, your marriage or your family.


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## Lostinthought61

GuyFawkes said:


> At this point, my wife will do whatever I ask of her. If I want her to end all contact with her friend, she will. If I want to start a 3 way relationship with her and her friend, she’s down. Although the idea of me being with her friend one on one hurts her, which slightly amuses me. It’s ok for her to F her friend, but the very idea of me F’ing her...causes her pain. This in my eyes show’s how selfish she is. I think apart of me just wants her to experience the pain I’m feeling, to “teach her a lesson”. Which if I’m being rational just sounds toxic. I’m really confused as to what direction I want to take this.


the answer to this is that there is only one room for a cheater in the family and she does not want to share you (on a one on one) basis is because she does not get to control the situation and make sure her needs are met. the cheater always wants control over the non-cheater....that is why they get upset when you want to do what they have been doing to you. if you plan on staying i would first get all the facts, (polygraph), AA, no more girl nights, then lay out the rules and if she does not think she can except them then tell her your done...the question is are you ready to push the limit of everything.


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## chillymorn69

She wil do whatever you want. Take her up on that!


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## Herschel

What do you think would be the best case scenario here? Having a threesome whenever you want it, even being allowed to bang his other chick for as long as she will let you? This stuff is excited because it’s new and taboo. It will get old after a while and one of you if not more will want out (your wife likely being the one who wants to keep it going). The friend may get over the fun, find a new guy and your wife will likely obsess over her. Unless they both want to be gay and really are just placating you (which is likely the best scenario).

So, look at whatever End game you think is best and work towards it. Telling your wife, never talk to her again will be the biggest fail of all fails. She lives 3 doors down, and your wife is obsessed with her. I’d say your marriage is kinda ****ed.

So, if I were you and I somehow stupidly got myself o to this situation, I would do this. I’d tell my wife that you feel that this is going to lead to the end of the marriage, but...why not enjoy it while we can. Buy some viagra online, tell your wife you want to be able to bang her and her friend, keep everything nice and happy, work towards a divorce, maybe he wife moves in with the friend 3 doors down and you can stay at your house and find someone new.


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## oldshirt

"When a woman exposes her genitals to a man, it is because she wants to do it."

- Dr Laura Schlesinger

This is just a simple truth of the cosmos. When a woman is not attracted to man and does not want to have contact with him she does not go home from the bar with him in the middle of the night, get undressed and get into bed with him regardless if she is hot for another woman it not.

If she wants to donut-bump on the friend, they can do that whenever they want. They went home with the dude to have a 3-way with him included as a group thing.

If she was truly not attracted to the OM and did not want to have a group sex encounter with him, she would not have gone home with them, got nekkid and get into bed with him being present. 

We may never know if his penis entered her vagina. 

But let's not pretend that this was just a girl thing and that the 3 of them did not intend to have a group sex encounter.

I was a swinger for over 10 years and was very active in that lifestyle and have had lots of group sex and 3ways, 4-ways etc. 

If a woman is not attracted to him and is not comfortable with him, she does not get into bed nakey with him - even if she wants to donut-bump with the other woman.

Some people will agree beforehand that a husband of one of the women will either sit on sidelines or will only interact with his wife. But that is an agreed upon dynamic between people who practice that lifestyle that involves married couples. Not 3 horny drunks going home from the bar.

Let's at least work with what is realistic and reasonable here.


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## oldshirt

And let's also look at the actions of the OM.

If I'm with my GF or some single chick that I brought home fair and square from the bar and some other guy comes barging in and crashes the party, I am gonna be p1$$ed and kick his arse for interrupting me.

If some guy is hiding in the closet, that means he knows he had has hand in the wrong cookie jar.


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## NoChoice

OP,
I am forever amazed at the incredible things cheaters will say. "I was so drunk that I could not stop myself however, I did tell him to stop touching me, multiple times and I have amazing clarity of recall regarding this encounter, which I only succumbed to because of my alcohol induced lack of ability to think clearly. Fascinating


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## TX-SC

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> I am forever amazed at the incredible things cheaters will say. "I was so drunk that I could not stop myself however, I did tell him to stop touching me, multiple times and I have amazing clarity of recall regarding this encounter, which I only succumbed to because of my alcohol induced lack of ability to think clearly. Fascinating


Nice observation. There are a lot of inconsistencies in her story and I'd be willing to bet her interaction with the other man was more than she is saying. But, even given what you know, it would appear your wife is a little more lesbian than just bisexual. You have to consider that she may already have developed feelings for this other woman.

As for what you can do, I recommend cutting this friend from you and your wife's lives, closing your marriage to any other outside parties and focusing on what both of you want and need from your marriage. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## JayDee7

So the wife had six with another man in the past and then had a threesome with another man and woman behind her husbands back and the bright idea to have another threesome turned into a twosome between the wife and the other woman who she already cheated with.

This is a mess. A mess of a marriage, a mess of a woman, a mess of a husband. Just end this mess.


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## WilliamM

Interesting.

My wife made the mistake of allowing a friend to seduce her once. But we are wild children of the sixties so she may have just been confused. But she lied, about many things. I didn’t catch her in any specific lies about the sex with the friend. But that event led me to discover so many things she did lie about with regards to sex between us it got very vicious. 

Anyway, I came to believe my wife’s heart is in the right place even though she can’t answer questions truthfully. I don’t see that about your wife from your story. It does seem like your wife intentionally left you out, and you became involved only because you hammered on the door at the right time. 

By the way, my wife is bisexual and we have had many MFF threesomes and it’s never well choreographed. Life is always messy.

How can you get past the fact you had to hunt your wife down? I would not be able to. 

At least my wife ran to me the very first instant she possibly could.


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## TaDor

@GuyFawkes : Your marriage is in trouble - same ol' problem we guys babysit while the women go out, get wasted and laid by other people.
I have many years experience in non-monogamous relationships before my wife. She too had issues of ME having sex with other women - even if she was playing with the woman at the same time. Go figure. But I never cheated or did anything behind her back or even planned to. 

By my now EX cheated on me over and over again - it wasn't the sex that really bothered me. I'm used to 3somes and such before her. It was the lying, and falling for other people and destroying our family household over fantasy. Open relationship or not - my EX would have cheated anyway, it just would have happened differently.

I'll add more thought on this if you wish. But listen to people like NoChoice and Gus as well as the others. They know what they are talking about.

My relationship with my EX just ended. I'm not putting up with her crap anymore. I think at this point, your marriage is at a 40% chance of surviving - depending on what your wife does. As others have said - she has to be willing to shut it down. IF she isn't into doing everything it takes to save it - then your marriage quality will reduce and may die in 2-5 years. Mine limped along for almost 2 years, she cheated again - time to end it.

But I think the chances of HER cheating on your again is somewhere between 95~110%. At best, you both need counseling and learning how to respect each other.


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## MattMatt

sandcastle said:


> Like I said- it was sexy, hot and delish until it did NOT include you and you did not control the sexy 2 girls on YOU threesome.
> 
> What is at all honest with sharing the mother of your children with ANYBODY.
> 
> Oh yeah- here comes the the kink brigade.
> 
> Honesty? Situational? She did not want YOU a part of her sexytime.
> 
> Perhaps the MC can work that out for the two of you.


Except that the other woman in the threesome was concerned that the wife was ignoring her own husband and expressed that concern several times.

So I think your analysis of this situation is somewhat flawed.


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## sandcastle

MattMatt said:


> Except that the other woman in the threesome was concerned that the wife was ignoring her own husband and expressed that concern several times.
> 
> So I think your analysis of this situation is somewhat flawed.


Not if you go back to his original post.

It got messy when his wife decided to leave him out.

It was a great idea until he got axed.
It was a terrible idea from the beginning.


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## MattMatt

sandcastle said:


> Not if you go back to his original post.
> 
> It got messy when his wife decided to leave him out.
> 
> It was a great idea until he got axed.
> It was a terrible idea from the beginning.


It was a dreadful idea.

However, I find it of concern that the other woman in this threesome had more concern for his feelings than his *own wife* had for his feelings.

That is a problem.


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## 2ntnuf

If he wants to stop this and try to save his marriage, he has to know that he is sleeping with her "man" when he has sex with them. 

He has to treat the OW as a male interloper. 

I don't think his wife is full on lesbian. I think she just enjoys being led instead of being the leader. We don't even know what the rest of this marriage is like. 

It always bothers me when the op of a thread like this posts once or twice and leaves for a long time.


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## GuyFawkes

2ntnuf said:


> If he wants to stop this and try to save his marriage, he has to know that he is sleeping with her "man" when he has sex with them.
> 
> He has to treat the OW as a male interloper.
> 
> I don't think his wife is full on lesbian. I think she just enjoys being led instead of being the leader. We don't even know what the rest of this marriage is like.
> 
> It always bothers me when the op of a thread like this posts once or twice and leaves for a long time.



Apologize for being a bit quiet. I sent my wife out of state for the weekend to see her mom so I could think about things and spend time with the kids. Worst part about all of this is that my 14 year old eavesdropped on one of our conversations and now knows everything. He's best friends with the OW's son and told him everything as well. It's heart breaking, his respect and the way he views his mother has been shattered, he's afraid we'll get a divorce. Just like me, he can't understand why she would do something like that. No child should have to know what he does or go through this. The three of us had a conversation together before she left and she just cried the entire time and "hates" herself for what she's done and the example she's set for our child. 

My wife is def not full lesbian, this is the first girl on girl experience she's ever had. So it's new and exciting. Although she seems to be very confused about her bisexual awakening. She constantly say's how much she loves our sex life and my "man part"....that she has zero interest in any other man. For her, I truly believe it's all about the girl on girl thing...whether she touched the OM or not, she's not interested in him. She said a few times, I wish so bad it was you there instead of him, I'm sorry...I'm just being honest". Now that her head has cleared a bit, she thinks it's a bad idea and it's best to just end her friendship with the OW. But I can tell those feelings are still there (as I said, the very mention of the OW in bed makes her dripping wet). A bit more background, my wife works at a very high in cigar bar...constantly gets hit on by really wealthy men...and I've never felt threatened. Periodically, I'll check her phone...have never found anything out of line in the 6 years since her first affair. I also have gps on her phone (google timeline), she's always where she says she is, always on schedule at work, always texts me when she's on her way home. So up until this point I'm 99.5% certain she's been faithful within those 6 years.

Even MORE background: We have been together since we were 17. We had our first child when I was 19. We have gone through everything together in the last 16 years. The death of my parents, my nephew, us struggling to get by as young parents, working through college and jobs, she's been there with me through it all.....when I had nothing. 99% of the time, she really is an amazing person. I do realize there may be a bit of a co-dependency issue on both of our sides. It's extremely hard to just move on and start over and splitting my family apart. From my POV, I feel like I'm an intelligent person. I understand human nature and have the degrees to back that up. I think I may be fooling myself and just trying to rationalize the betrayal. A way of protecting myself from the pain. For me personally, (I said this earlier) marriage IMO isn't natural for human beings. It's something we're told is the right thing to do, whether it be from a religious stand point (I'm atheist) or a cultural/societal stand point. Marriage takes a lot of work, people must ignore those animal impulses and respect the boundaries they have agreed on. Even after that, being with the same person, the same routine, daily...things eventually start to get boring. I said earlier that everyone's definition of marriage is different, whatever two people decide on...it's their choice and we should all respect that. Traditional marriage doesn't work for everyone...and with our ever growing narcissistic Kim Kardasian culture...it seems to be dying. I try to understand all those factors and she knows that. ALL I ask for is complete honesty, which she broke. Even if we were to continue our marriage, she realizes I will never be able to really trust her again. So that's the main problem.

If you guys have any questions, I'll freely answer them.

(Going to read through the other replies and try to respond, thanks again everyone for offering you input and advice. It's very much appreciated)


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## 2ntnuf

This is too complicated for me. Someone here suggested you get into counseling and figure out what you each want, then make new boundaries within the marriage. Edit: Or, get an amicable divorce. ee. You really needs some professional advice. 

With saying your wife gets that excited about the woman, I'd say she is in love with her and is chemically attracted. Doesn't mean she doesn't enjoy a man, but it is a very important event to bring up in counseling. 

You guys need help, badly. I feel badly for your kids. It has to be tough. They probably need some counseling, too. Sorry.


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## doconiram

Does not sound like a healthy environment to raise children in.

Make sure your wife gets tested for STDs before you have unprotected sex with her.

If your wife gets "dripping wet" thinking of OW. This behavior will continue.

Also, she's lying about the other dude. She knew what she was getting into with that car ride before she went into the house with them.


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## BadGrammar

The shifting landscape of socially acceptable behavior is an artificial construct promoted by academics and the profit driven media. You, on the other hand, are a flesh and blood human being with an innate sense of right and wrong. Your definition of those elemental morals and their boundaries are at your core as an individual. My belief is that suitable life partners must share a like set of those morals and their boundaries. Is this the case with you and your wife?


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## GuyFawkes

Forgot to mention...right after it happened my wife gave me the guys name. He's a co-worker of her friends. I messaged him twice on facebook, he never responded. My wifes friend asked her what she wanted him to say...she told her "I already told my husband the truth". That was a text message between them. Since then, from what I've heard he doesnt want to get involved (he knew my wife was married, but what single guy in his situation would turn that down) and has yet to respond to me. I did tell the other husband (my wifes friends husband who left) some small details...basically I told him that I caught my wife and her locked in the house...and I'm not sure what happened. The next day he drove over there and spray painted on her wedding dress, "F'ing lesbian". I never told him about the guy involved. If I wanted to I could send him after the OM, guess I'm holding back for now in hopes I can get him to cooperate.


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## Windwalker

GuyFawkes said:


> This is my first post, so hello TAM community! A friend of mine recommended I share my story on here and hopefully you guys can help. I apologize if this is a bit long, but this is the story of my wife having a threesome with her friend and another guy...and the threesome we had afterwards.
> 
> Background:
> 
> Married 8 years, 33 years old, two kids. We've been together for almost 16 years. We've been there for one another through everything in our lives. I have been unfaithful in my younger years before we were married, I had sex with a handful of women, after marriage I grew out of it and have been completely faithful. She had a short month long affair about 6 years ago with another man...it was hell. After months and months of talking and pain, I forgave her and we moved on; I thought that it honestly strengthened out marriage, things have been AMAZING since then.* I did tell her afterwards... if she ever lied/cheated on me again we would be done. *
> 
> Strike 1
> Threesome:
> 
> *She betrayed me, again.
> *
> 
> Strike 2
> 
> My threesome:
> 
> *I had sex with my wife while they made out...but wasnt able to keep an erection. After that, it was all them. My wife basically forgot I existed and was completely into her friend. Her friend said a few times "touch your husband" "show him some attention".*
> 
> Eventually I said, this isn't right....and left. *Afterwards my wife apologized, again using her drinking as an excuse. *
> 
> Strike 3
> 
> *I don't want to sweep this under the rug*
> 
> A little late for that.
> 
> *but at the same time in some f'd up way this is exciting me.*
> 
> Of course it does.



How's that lack of integrity working for you? 

Don't worry, I won't post again. 
I have a horrible need for a wash now.


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## GuyFawkes

Windwalker said:


> How's that lack of integrity working for you?
> 
> Don't worry, I won't post again.
> I have a horrible need for a wash now.


Anytime I can share my pain and suffering...the destruction of my marriage and family...and it leads to improved hygiene...that's about the only win i've had all week. So thank you!


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## 269370

GuyFawkes said:


> Forgot to mention...right after it happened my wife gave me the guys name. He's a co-worker of her friends. I messaged him twice on facebook, he never responded. My wifes friend asked her what she wanted him to say...she told her "I already told my husband the truth". That was a text message between them. Since then, from what I've heard he doesnt want to get involved (he knew my wife was married, but what single guy in his situation would turn that down) and has yet to respond to me. I did tell the other husband (my wifes friends husband who left) some small details...basically I told him that I caught my wife and her locked in the house...and I'm not sure what happened. The next day he drove over there and spray painted on her wedding dress, "F'ing lesbian". I never told him about the guy involved. If I wanted to I could send him after the OM, guess I'm holding back for now in hopes I can get him to cooperate.




What is it that you want the OM to cooperate with? A foursome? 
You just need to decide and set some boundaries with wife and stick to them. if she breaks them, leave. You obviously lost trust in her and the whole thing screwed up your head. 
The traditional marriage model may be ‘archaic’ but is there for a reason: because everything else is unlikely to work. Remember about the kids too..You are not two spotty teenagers anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NoChoice

GuyFawkes said:


> Forgot to mention...right after it happened my wife gave me the guys name. He's a co-worker of her friends. I messaged him twice on facebook, he never responded. My wifes friend asked her what she wanted him to say...she told her "I already told my husband the truth". That was a text message between them. Since then, from what I've heard *he doesnt want to get involved* (he knew my wife was married, but what single guy in his situation would turn that down) and has yet to respond to me. I did tell the other husband (my wifes friends husband who left) some small details...basically I told him that I caught my wife and her locked in the house...and I'm not sure what happened. The next day he drove over there and spray painted on her wedding dress, "F'ing lesbian". I never told him about the guy involved. If I wanted to I could send him after the OM, guess I'm holding back for now in hopes I can get him to cooperate.


Absolutely fascinating.


----------



## GuyFawkes

https://youtu.be/_jYBSJfDz-Q

Thoughts? (I'm a big tyt fan)


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## GuyFawkes

What I want from the OM is honesty. He's the only party without a vested interest. For me, the details do matter. If my wife was completely honest with me....that would mean something. If he were to tell me, "ya man, I'm sorry...we all had sex, blah blah"... I'd be done with my wife. Not just bc of the sex, but bc of her continuing to lie.


----------



## SunCMars

GuyFawkes said:


> What I want from the OM is honesty. He's the only party without a vested interest. For me, the details do matter. If my wife was completely honest with me....that would mean something. If he were to tell me, "ya man, I'm sorry...we all had sex, blah blah"... I'd be done with my wife. Not just bc of the sex, but bc of her continuing to lie.


They did all have sex.
They were all naked together. Of course, they were.
Isn't that enough?


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## GuyFawkes

I understand you point. Regardless what she did was cheating. But for me, if it was only about her friend...and they only touched...that's a bit different then a full blown threesome.


----------



## 269370

GuyFawkes said:


> What I want from the OM is honesty. He's the only party without a vested interest. For me, the details do matter. If my wife was completely honest with me....that would mean something. If he were to tell me, "ya man, I'm sorry...we all had sex, blah blah"... I'd be done with my wife. Not just bc of the sex, but bc of her continuing to lie.


It does NOT matter; I will tell you why: say your wife DID let the other guy touch her and she KNOWS that you will leave her if you find out: what do you think she is going to tell you?
Whether she tells you or not seems like you are clutching at straws, getting some sense of 'control' back but it's not about that. It's about what you decide going forward: can you forgive her regardless and move on or will this forever be ingrained in your brain so that you won't be able to move past it?
I know it's tough.
Regardless: why do you think the guy is going to tell you the truth?
Forget the other guy. Take her to take a polygraph test if you are that keen to know: but will you be able to leave her if she *fails* it? (You will most likely get a parking lot confession if it did happen).


----------



## ConanHub

GuyFawkes said:


> I understand you point. Regardless what she did was cheating. But for me, if it was only about her friend...and they only touched...that's a bit different then a full blown threesome.


Hmmm. If my wife fd anyone but me, divorce.

If she even got naked for anyone but me, divorce.

Your wife fd another woman while she was getting fd by another man.

OM partook of your wife at a highly sexual and intimate level regardless of penetration and the other woman had her body fully.

Sorry dude. She is a ho.

Unless she was sitting way back when OM was involved with her friend, she was getting some action from OM too.

You might need to get the whole truth but what you have so far is more than bad enough to divorce over.

Your wife truly sucks. Maybe she needs mental help but otherwise she is just behaving like an out of control slvt.


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## marriageontherocks2

Rick Blaine said:


> Do you see the hypocrisy here? You got excited over the chance to bang two women but when the situation was flipped and another man was involved you were upset.


So he was excited about the prospect of having a 3-some with his wife and her friend and that means he can't be upset because she had a 3-some with her friend and ANOTHER guy, i.e. without her husband and with no prior discussion?

I don't see the hypocrisy at all.


----------



## 269370

GuyFawkes said:


> https://youtu.be/_jYBSJfDz-Q
> 
> Thoughts? (I'm a big tyt fan)


Yes, you are subconsciously trying to find ways to excuse your wife's inexcusable behaviour.
And also setting yourself 'forgiveness threshold hurdles', i.e. 'if she is telling the truth that the other guy didn't touch her, it might be ok to forgive her'.

The problem is that if it was all about having sex with her girlfriend (which I would also find not especially acceptable...) she would just have had sex with the other woman, and not also bring a guy into it.

I honestly don't know what i'd do in your shoes either. Other guys will all scream 'divorce her'. I know that when it actually comes to your own self in real life, the %age of guys who actually forgive infidelity is actually much higher than TAM would have you believe.
You might just have to put it down to a '**** up, because you weren't clear about boundaries' with each other but the mind movies will drive you nuts and you will keep digging and it will eat at you.


----------



## 269370

marriageontherocks2 said:


> So he was excited about the prospect of having a 3-some with his wife and her friend and that means he can't be upset because she had a 3-some with her friend and ANOTHER guy, i.e. without her husband and with no prior discussion?
> 
> I don't see the hypocrisy at all.


I don't see it quite like that. There _could_ be hypocrisy however if the wife's objective is to just have sex with the other woman all the time, she could just be manipulating the husband into having threesomes (and not caring when he is not included which seems to be the indication). Usually, for a guy, a FFM threesome is a dream come true, except when it comes true: then it's potentially a living nightmare.
There are people here who manage to get through bisexual marriages ok but not so many.


----------



## oldshirt

GuyFawkes said:


> What I want from the OM is honesty. He's the only party without a vested interest. For me, the details do matter. If my wife was completely honest with me....that would mean something. If he were to tell me, "ya man, I'm sorry...we all had sex, blah blah"... I'd be done with my wife. Not just bc of the sex, but bc of her continuing to lie.



Do you think that a guy that went home from the bar and got naked with a married woman and was found hiding in a closet is going to be upfront and honest with you????

And even if you do somehow get to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth out of him, where are you going to draw the line? Are you going to give free pass as long as his penis never entered her vagina?

They were all naked in bed together for the purpose of having a 3way. As long as his penis didn't enter her vagina are you going to be ok if he went down on her or fingered her while he was plowing her friend? Are you OK if he pulled out of the friend and finished on your wife's face? There was a pile of naked bodies on the bed having a sexual encounter, where are you going to draw that line?

Then let's also keep in my that you crashed this party uninvited and broke things up before they had played out. 

Maybe he did only screw the friend but that doesn't mean that he simply hadn't got to your W yet. Maybe the friend won the coin toss and had first dibs and was just feeling everyone up while she waited for her turn. 

If you want to try to reconcile this and do what you can to keep the marriage, that is your prerogative and choice. But let's at least accept that this was and was going to be a consensual sexual encounter between 3 consenting adults. And let's also accept that you are being gas lighted to one degree or another and will probably never know the full story.


----------



## Malaise

GuyFawkes said:


> I understand you point. Regardless what she did was cheating. But for me, if it was only about her friend...and they only touched...that's a bit different then a full blown threesome.


You're trying so hard to excuse her behavior but you can't deny she was naked with her friend and OM.

And if you think that in the heat of the moment she didn't give any attention to him you're deluding yourself.


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## Lostinthought61

Guy I want to switch gears for a second because right now there is a bigger victim here, your son....he can be deeply scared from this...he is now at the age when he is interested in girls and this could impact him....he may ne counseling, but separate from the both of you and your wife.


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## Lostinthought61

Also is your wife willing to take a polygraph?


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## Vinnydee

I lived with my wife and girlfriend for 30 years of our 45 year marriage. My wife and I had a few thousand threesomes but as a couple, not without the other. I did have a girlfriend who thought just because I was OK with her and I in a threesome, it meant that she could have her own FFM threesomes with other males. When I found out I dumped her. I have been the other guy in my much younger days and I cuckolded the husband of our girlfriend for 25 years of their marriage. So many guys want threesomes and group sex until they realize that the females can get one or more different men any night of the week. Men find all sure things attractive. Men cannot walk into a bar and walk out with a girl every night of the week, much less a threesome. I have seen this a lot. Guys want to open a relationship to get a threesome or keep dating a girlfriend without guilt but once he loses what he had, he finds himself without any partners while his wife is mobbed at a club because she wears a sexy dress and lets it be know that she is looking for sex.

My experience is that when a woman is allowed to have sex with others with you, she then stops viewing the sex part as a problem, just the telling part is. Sex outside of marriage is the number one sin we are told and once it is not a sin anymore, all else is just little sins. My wife wanted other women but she did it in a way that always included me. I do not buy that she did nothing with the other guy. Do you really want to spend more time with a woman like her? What you are seeing is what you will get. I travelled in non monogamous circles for most of my life. We are the only ones still married. Your choice.


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## Sports Fan

Unfortunately the other man banged them both. It does not matter whether your wife touched the other man or not which we all know is garbage. She cheated on you full stop. Im sorry you are going through this pain but unless you enforce consequences your marriage is finished.


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## GuyFawkes

@Vinnydee Sadly this is all real. I've tried to be brutally honest with all the details in hopes it would help you guys offer the best advice you could. I'm on my way to pick her up from the airport, I'll hop on here later tonight.


----------



## Marc878

GuyFawkes said:


> Forgot to mention...right after it happened my wife gave me the guys name. He's a co-worker of her friends. I messaged him twice on facebook, he never responded. My wifes friend asked her what she wanted him to say...she told her "I already told my husband the truth". That was a text message between them. Since then, from what I've heard he doesnt want to get involved (he knew my wife was married, but what single guy in his situation would turn that down) and has yet to respond to me. I did tell the other husband (my wifes friends husband who left) some small details...basically I told him that I caught my wife and her locked in the house...and I'm not sure what happened. The next day he drove over there and spray painted on her wedding dress, "F'ing lesbian". *I never told him about the guy involved*. If I wanted to I could send him after the OM, guess I'm holding back for now in hopes I can get him to cooperate.


Low class behavior on your part. How would you like it if you were him.

You'll get nothing from this guy. He's a cheater and they all lie.


----------



## drifting on

Fawkes

Forget about OM unless you confront him in person. He will not respond to you on Facebook and if you continue to contact him he will simply block you. What then, are you going to go to his Instagram account? In person confrontation is the only way to handle OM. However, if you can't control yourself I don't recommend confronting. OM just may try to agitate you, tell you lies (since he's such an upstanding citizen anyway), and what if you don't believe him? 

You have but basically one way to get your truth, polygraph. Don't be afraid, remember your wife told OM many times not to touch her. You do know now he touched her, while drunk, and while highly aroused. Your wife was also highly aroused, so think about this, how long did OM touch her BEFORE she told him not to? 

Your next problem is that your wife was more into the friend then she was you while you had your threesome. Yet, she cries and sobs that she wished you were in the first threesome and not OM. Does she wish you were there the first time so she could have ignored you then too? You also say that your friend had a crush on OM, wanted him, and then took him home. Your wife enters the house for what reason exactly? Your wife knew her friend was going to have sex with OM, was a short distance from home, walking distance, but goes in anyway. Your wife does not seem to be competent of making a decision, regardless of alcohol. It's my opinion your wife wanted that threesome and could care less about what she would lose. 

This why you need to polygraph her. To get the truth from someone who is lying to you and shoving her lies down your throat. Take a stand and surprise her with a polygraph. I will say this, you won't leave the polygraph in the same car, either you will get an uber or leave her there stranded. Take control and get tough.


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## Dyokemm

Guy,

IMO the crux of this situation is that your WW knows with no doubt you will D her if she screwed around with POSOM too.

She said she thought you were OK with the OW based on their previous flirting and hanging out with her........

So....your WW is going to stick to her story that scumbag OM never touched her.

But there is an unintentional hint at what really happened that she gave you in her own story.....

She told you that she said during the incident itself that you would D her over what was happening.

Well....if she was truly convinced you would be OK with her and the OW based on previous behavior and your discussions on threesomes....then what could possibly have been going on in addition to her fooling around with OW that would lead her to blurt out to her playmates that you would D for sure?

Based on her own claims that she thought you would be cool with her and OW, then her statements that you would D must be based on what she was doing with OM.

She is probably lying to you about the threesome with OM....she had sex with him too.

But she will not admit because she knows you will be gone.....

Thing is....you can’t try R with a WW who continues to lie to you about her betrayal either.

If you want a shot at R, you need the full truth.....

A poly is a better bet to get it than talking to POSOM.....or the OW and/or your WW for that matter as well.

While a poly may not be 100% perfect.....it is a thousand times more accurate than a lying cheater/affair partner.

Tell your WW you can’t even begin to think about moving on from this until you know she is honest.....then request the poly, with the warning that refusing to take it or failing will prove to you that she is not being honest and R will be impossible.


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## ABHale

How could you ever know she has been faithful all of these years between. 

I agree with everyone else. It was a full on threesome. Your wife is driving home and her friend climbs in the back and gets naked with the OM. Make out session the rest of the way to her house. Then the two that might be or probably are naked go in the OW house with your wife. WTF is there to understand. Your wife knew exactly what she was doing drunk or not. She drove them home so how drunk was she? She goes in the OW’s house knowing she going to join them. 

Then a failed 3sum where your own wife ignored you to the point the OW noticed and tried to get her to involve you. ( By the way, I can understand why the OW’s marriage failed if she was pulling chit like this on her husband ). 

What are you trying to save?

This is your marriage, you have allowed it to get to this point by not standing up for yourself. Best move you made was sending your wife away. She should have stayed way for a few weeks not just the weekend. 

Take a page from the OW’s husband but have your wife leave not you. 

Track what she does during this time. 

If she goes on as normal and goes on GNO during this time, I would think she is not remorseful at all for what she did. 

If she goes to a therapist and is trying to make things right, then there might be a way to save the marriage. Just don’t know why you would. 

On another site the guy sent his wife to her moms. She was going out with her friends almost every night of the two weeks she was gone. No remorse at all. He is waiting til January 1st to see if she gets it. If not he is filling for divorce.


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## Herschel

Look, she's cheated with a dude, she's cheated with a chick and a dude. This is all you know about. But none of that matters. What matters is...

WHAT DO YOU WANT?

Seriously, you are extremely wishy washy. If you ever cheat again, well, it's cheating, but with a chick, so, let me in, moral blah blah blah. I don't care about sanctity of marriage, nor do I care whether monogamy is dying off (as if that is some sort of justification). What matters is...

WHAT DO YOU WANT?

Are you asking us what to do? Like, do we think she will cheat again? Or, should you continue to 3some? Or what? Most people here will think that not only did she cheat and will likely cheat again, but you were complicit with having a 3some with her. This will only continue to get worse and feelings don't matter. Her feeling terrible that the kids knows means nothing. She knew he could find out. She knew she was cheating on you, she did it anyway. Really, all that matters is...

WHAT DO YOU WANT?


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## GuyFawkes

@Herschel That's the problem. I'm not sure what I want. That's what I'm trying to figure out. 

In other news: I did bring up the polygraph idea to her. I researched it and can get one for about $150 where I live. I told her that there's no way I can move pass this or even begin to work on our marriage unless I know she's being completely honest with me. That what she did is terrible, but at least if she's being honest, that would be something I could respect. To determine if she's honest, I asked her if she'd be willing to take a polygraph (watchin her closely)...she didn't hesitate and said yes. "I've told you the truth and if that proves it to you...I will do it".


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## Malaise

@drifting on has experience with polygraphs. Listen to whatever he says.


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## ButtPunch

When's the divorce?

I don't believe in 3rd chances.


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## eric1

You need to fully expose to the other husband. Period.


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## MyRevelation

While I wouldn't put up with this nonsense from your WW, you seem to want to reconcile this some way. That being the case, let's take it one step at a time ... you must insist on complete and permanent NO CONTACT with the OW. Then see how your WW responds before moving forward. If she refuses or grudgingly agrees, the rest doesn't matter, because you don't have the basic foundation for a successful R.


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## sandcastle

And no more suggestion, thought or fantasy about a 2fer with you and your wife and whatever woman is talked into a devastating outcome for your CHILD.

I guess it would have been great if your child heard YOU and his mother and the BFF getting it on?


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## TAMAT

GuyFawkes,

Really sorry to hear you are going through all of this, but there has to be consequences for your WW.

What happened to the OM from six years ago did you expose to his wife and family or get him fired? If not take care of that now. Perhaps have your WW call his wife and confess and apologize. 

I know you said you forgave your WW, but did your WW make amends to the other family?

Tamat


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## Jus260

GuyFawkes said:


> I did tell the other husband (my wifes friends husband who left) some small details...basically I told him that I caught my wife and her locked in the house...and I'm not sure what happened. The next day he drove over there and spray painted on her wedding dress, "F'ing lesbian". I never told him about the guy involved. If I wanted to I could send him after the OM, guess I'm holding back for now in hopes I can get him to cooperate.


Did you tell the other husband before or after you had a threesome with his wife? You said you got oral from his wife. After reading your first post, I assumed that marriage was over before the first menage. Unless I read this wrong, how do you justify having sex with this guy's wife then calling him to tell on her about the incident that didn't involve you?


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## VladDracul

Am I the only one that sees a possible connection between the screen/members name "Guyfawkers" and his allegation of his wife's and her friends have been up to. I mean.....oh what the hell, its probably just my imagination and pronouncing it like its two words.


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## Jus260

VladDracul said:


> Am I the only one that sees a possible connection between the screen/members name "Guyfawkers" and his allegation of his wife's and her friends have been up to. I mean.....oh what the hell, its probably just my imagination and pronouncing it like its two words.



Years ago I was on a board that had a strict profanity filter. One guy used to use fawk in place of **** all the time. I saw fawk as **** without even thinking about it.


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## GuyFawkes

Man you guys are ruthless. Think I'm done here. For those that actually gave well thought out advice, thank you.


----------



## TAMAT

GF,

Nothing anyone posts on an advice site can be 1/100 th as bad as what your WW did to you. 

Tamat


----------



## Malaise

GuyFawkes said:


> *Man you guys are ruthless*. Think I'm done here. For those that actually gave well thought out advice, thank you.


More than your W?


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

If I were in your shoes, the penetration of another man wouldn't be the deciding factor in whether I work on my marriage or I don't. The fact that she was in a room with some strangers ****, 3 doors down from my house, AND my children found out... done. Done done done. 

She has horrible boundaries.


----------



## drifting on

Guyfawkes 

I e mentioned what I thought to be pure incriminating responses of your wife. She told you the other guy touched her, but for how long? No polygraph will get you this answer. She told you she told OM not to touch her, again, was that once she was done with what OM was doing? For instance, let's say OM rubbed her breast. You're wife is completely infatuated with the woman, in the mood, how long before she noticed? In your own threesome, your wife forgot you were there, had to be reminded by the woman. In other words the OM and truthfully yourself could have done anything to her and she would not care. Not enough to stop it, at least in my book. 

Get the polygraph, DO NOT TELL HER WHAT WILL BE ASKED!!!! I said to surprise her and now she will be researching polys as you told her. All is not lost however, you can still get a polygraph with good results. Find an examiner who has done hundreds, police examiners are very good. Listen to his suggestions, allow him to hell you with the questions. Tell your wife the examiner you have found is touted as the best in your area. This will put your wife in unrest, and that he can decipher when someone has searched on how to beat a polygraph. 

I still suspect that with her not answering your texts, the opening of the door at friends house, and the realization of what she did will produce a parking lot confession. Now that you told her she is confident that she will pass. Probably because she thinks if she sounds confident that you will take her word. Also tell her you are including questions from the previous affair to determine if you know all and that it was the truth. Watch how she spins here, I believe you will get more new information from that cheating episode too. 

Lastly, you need the 2X4's you are getting here. This is to wake you up, as you are not fully yet. Some may seem like they are taking shots at you but I think you are getting what is actually par for your course. I highly doubt anyone is trying to inflict pain, but when you are in as much pain as you are it's easy to miss things. They are simply pointing out what you may not want to have to exam. Your wife has cheated twice, I know I would run by now. But I'm not you, and if you want to save the marriage then fine. However, you are going to have to look at this very much under a microscope, your wife is going to need to learn much more then you think. She may not be capable, and this is what you will ultimately have to understand.


----------



## Sports Fan

So your wife agreed to the polygraph. Good now go ahead and book it in. Follow through with it. Anyone can say they agree to a polygraph hoping that they will convince you of their innocence then hope you actually cannot be bothered following through.


----------



## 269370

GuyFawkes said:


> Man you guys are ruthless. Think I'm done here. For those that actually gave well thought out advice, thank you.


Hey! I would like to know how the story ends! Whether you end up with a heavenly dream-marriage (including occasional FFFFFFFM many-somes) or if it's all going to unravel.
Not to pry but for my own 'records'...I am routing for the former.

Vinnydee managed the former (it seems) so it's not impossible!


----------



## ConanHub

WOW!

Cuckolicious!!


----------



## syhoybenden

Jus260 said:


> Did you tell the other husband before or after you had a threesome with his wife? You said you got oral from his wife. After reading your first post, I assumed that marriage was over before the first menage. Unless I read this wrong, how do you justify having sex with this guy's wife then calling him to tell on her about the incident that didn't involve you?


You nailed it here.

This is where his story falls apart.

Careless writing.


----------



## Talker67

sandcastle said:


> This has zero to do with being " married to a lesbian."
> 
> 
> This is mainstream and has nothing to to do with sexual preference.


is it married to a lesbian, or married to a bi-sexual. makes a really big difference as far as the man is concerned!


----------



## Jus260

GuyFawkes said:


> Man you guys are ruthless. Think I'm done here. For those that actually gave well thought out advice, thank you.


I wasn't trying to run you off the board. My intention was to get clarification for the people on this board who are actually qualified to give advice. 

I could have been less harsh. Believe me, someone more harsh than me would have picked up on that incinsistency.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> If you guys have any questions, I'll freely answer them


Lack of loyalty, commitment, honesty and betrayal has been in your marriage several times by both of you. You say that there are different marriage arrangements and tolerations in marriage and you are right. The facts that you have now without the poly are:

Both of you have sexually betrayed each other
Both of you have broken trust
Both of you sacrificed your child’s well-being so that you can get a buzz for your ego or sexual excitement.
Your wife prefers that woman for sex over you so you are not her number one.
You compromised sexual monogamy and commitment so that you could participate in sex with another woman in your threesome.

You want relief and want to keep your wife but the violations above are nuke bombs for marriage. You are trying very hard to use your intellect and reasoning to correct you and your wife’s failings. Intellectualism and reasoning alone is not enough; morality and spiritualism are also needed. You are an atheist so I do not expect you to respond or consider this post but that does not change the truth and hopefully someone else can use the facts to avoid your situation.

You do not get the posts that you want so you leave your own thread. What have you to lose by considering the threads that you do not like? You have used your own thinking and you are miserable so maybe consider others.*.If you are really willing to change then why not find a couple that has had 30-40 years of successful marriage and then follow their actions?
*


----------



## Satya

The OM doesn't owe you anything. If anything, he could sieze upon your desperation for knowledge and really mess with your head.

You can't expect clarity from liars.


----------



## toucheturtle

I was in the same thing one time with my now ex.she wanted to open our marriage up to others like swinging. It all blew up cause i stayed at home with the children while she went out to explore.i said i am out of here! I DID GET A STD.


----------



## Lostsoul78

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Her behavior is not excusable. I hope you found someone worthy of you


----------



## [email protected]

Stay doing what you're doing and you'll remain as unhappy as you are now. Threesome is a marriage killer, and you should have thought of that at the outset.


----------



## bandit.45

I just cannot believe how people **** their lives up so badly. Unbeeleebabul.


----------



## Sports Fan

Unfortunately after Guy found out about his wife's threesome, instead of kicking the wife and her wayward girlfriend to the kerb he agreed to another threesome which involved the wife, her girlfriend, and himself. Guy then wants to get sensitive, when people call him out and give him honest good advice.

Unfortunate story however a perfect example on how not to react to a cheating situation.


----------



## NobodySpecial

inmyprime said:


> Yeah...I heard that’s what ACTUAL threesomes are exactly like: someone sitting in the corner eating a ****sandwich.


Coming from someone who has never had a threesome!



> They work better as a fantasy.


They can be pretty awesome in real life. Don't blame threesomes in general. That is not the OP's problem!


----------



## drifting on

Guy

How are you doing? Have you found out anything new? My best to you.


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## [email protected]

NobodySpecial said:


> Coming from someone who has never had a threesome!
> 
> 
> 
> They can be pretty awesome in real life. Don't blame threesomes in general. That is not the OP's problem!


Right. 

There are all kinds of things that aren't right for one couple, but are great for another. I don't like anything but plain vanilla sex with my wife and girlfriends. But I don't like two at the same time. That doesn't mean threesomes are bad. Part of the time it is awesome, but my wife just gets into this control mode - telling us what to do. 

So I don't have to enjoy it so much myself to see the potential for other people who are into it. It is obvious what kind of people it would be really bad for, so who in their right minds would recommend it to them?

Likewise, anal sex just creeps me out, speaking for myself personally participating in it. But other people are really into it so who am I to tell them it is wrong for them? 

For those who are potential - this guy was really bothered by his wife being so into another girl, and had all of this suspicion about the other guy. Resentment. These are very poor conditions to enter into a threesome with.


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## As'laDain

[email protected] said:


> Right.
> 
> There are all kinds of things that aren't right for one couple, but are great for another. I don't like anything but plain vanilla sex with my wife and girlfriends. But I don't like two at the same time. That doesn't mean threesomes are bad. Part of the time it is awesome, but my wife just gets into this control mode - telling us what to do.
> 
> So I don't have to enjoy it so much myself to see the potential for other people who are into it. It is obvious what kind of people it would be really bad for, so who in their right minds would recommend it to them?
> 
> Likewise, anal sex just creeps me out, speaking for myself personally participating in it. But other people are really into it so who am I to tell them it is wrong for them?
> 
> For those who are potential - this guy was really bothered by his wife being so into another girl, and had all of this suspicion about the other guy. Resentment. These are very poor conditions to enter into a threesome with.


this pretty much mirrors my own thoughts on it.


----------



## Diana7

As'laDain said:


> this pretty much mirrors my own thoughts on it.


Me too. A threesome(adultery) has no place in a committed marriage. 
We don't need to have had a three some to know the devastation it would bring to a marriage and the terrible consequences it would bring.


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## Diana7

A threesome(adultery) has no place in a committed marriage. 
We don't need to have had a three some to know the devastation it would bring to a marriage and the terrible consequences it would bring.


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## As'laDain

Diana7 said:


> Me too. A threesome(adultery) has no place in a committed marriage.
> We don't need to have had a three some to know the devastation it would bring to a marriage and the terrible consequences it would bring.


did you read what i quoted? 

if your stance is the same, then you are saying that threesomes are ok, but not for everyone...


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## RandomDude

@GuyFawkes

For open marriage and swinging to actually work in a healthy fashion, TRUST is one of the most important aspects of it.

Your wife betrayed it. As much as it may turn you on there is no happy ending from this.


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## Diana7

As'laDain said:


> did you read what i quoted?
> 
> if your stance is the same, then you are saying that threesomes are ok, but not for everyone...


I tried to cancel that post 4 times now.


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## NobodySpecial

toucheturtle said:


> I was in the same thing one time with my now ex.she wanted to open our marriage up to others like swinging. It all blew up cause i stayed at home with the children while she went out to explore.i said i am out of here! I DID GET A STD.


Wow. She is a red hot jerk-face. And I only say that since the TOS don't allow me to say anything worse.


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## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> Me too. A threesome(adultery) has no place in a committed marriage.


They may not have place in your vision of marriage. Which is fine.



> We don't need to have had a three some to know the devastation it would bring to a marriage and the terrible consequences it would bring.


My experience is very different. Bearing in mind that I am not only not christian but reject a fair amount of what some of them claim to believe despite growing up one myself. For us, ethical non-monogamy in the forms which we have engaged has raised some occasional challenges. But on balance, it has been an opportunity for huge growth for DH and I. We have experienced a closeness, an ability to communicate, care for each other and understand love in ways that were previously very vague for us.

I don't knock people who don't want it or for whom it is risky or for whatever reason find it morally or practically repugnant. Know yourself and live a life true to that. As a member of a community of participants in the ENM lifestyle, I have never met a kinder, less judgy, open and wonderful group of people. Many people assume that monogamy is the one true way to live and love, which is weird to me since the origin of monogamy has more to do with property rights than love. For many people, the best they can hope for is serial monogamy. Get on over to sex in marriage and the infidelity sub-forums and you will see the destruction that can cause. I won't try to pontificate on the natural state of people not being monogamous as some would. I don't have enough information.

It might bring devastation to YOUR marriage. It cause terrible consequences in YOUR marriage. But that is not universally the case in A marriage.


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## NobodySpecial

For the record, what OP describes is not ETHICAL non-monogamy which is why I distinguish his experience from generalizing to "threesomes". Threesomes are not the root culprit here.


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## NobodySpecial

RandomDude said:


> @GuyFawkes
> 
> For open marriage and swinging to actually work in a healthy fashion, TRUST is one of the most important aspects of it.


Winner, winner chicken dinner. Trust is predicated by trustworthiness. Wife was not trustworthy. I HAVE seen real, honest discussions on opening a marriage after an infidelity to have positive results. I, personally, have never seen a score balance, tit for tat experience resulting in positive outcomes. Believe it or not, it is often not about the sex. The sex is just the measuring device upon which things like honesty, caring and compassion are measured




> Your wife betrayed it. As much as it may turn you on there is no happy ending from this.


His reaction COULD have possibly been different. But then, there is no good reason it should have been. I am agreeing with the happy ending conclusion unless the 2 of them are willing to get down in the weeds with some radical honesty.


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## VermiciousKnid

NobodySpecial said:


> For us, ethical non-monogamy in the forms which we have engaged has raised some occasional challenges. But on balance, it has been an opportunity for huge growth for DH and I. We have experienced a closeness, an ability to communicate, care for each other and understand love in ways that were previously very vague for us.


Didn't he cheat on you by falling for someone else? I could swear I read you said that somewhere.


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## VermiciousKnid

To be honest I don't think the math adds up on threesomes. If non-monogamy is your thing, and the wife and I have played years ago, I found it better to do a full couple swap. In a threesome it's impossible for each individual to give both other people the same amount of attention. Someone inevitably gets left out in the cold because in the heat of the moment there will be chemistry between two people. In my experience that's between the two people not married to each other.

In partner swaps you can devote all your sexual energy for that particular get together to the one person, not your spouse, you're having sex with.

Threesomes always caused jealousy with my wife, myself, or the third party. That last one only happened once but my wife and I just really got into each other with her in the bed and ended up basically getting it on in front of her and leaving her hanging.

Multiple relationship partners, polyamory, whatever has an even bigger set of challenges because at some point there will be a conflict and a pecking order gets established. Whoever isn't at the top of the pecking order for someone else isn't going to like it. Nobody wants to be an afterthought.


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## NobodySpecial

VermiciousKnid said:


> Didn't he cheat on you by falling for someone else? I could swear I read you said that somewhere.


He certainly did fall for someone else, lo and behold, so did I. One of the challenges I mention. But not cheating.


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## NobodySpecial

VermiciousKnid said:


> To be honest I don't think the math adds up on threesomes. If non-monogamy is your thing, and the wife and I have played years ago, I found it better to do a full couple swap. In a threesome it's *impossible* for each individual to give both other people the same amount of attention. Someone *inevitably* gets left out in the cold because in the heat of the moment there will be chemistry between two people. In my experience that's between the two people not married to each other.


This is inaccurate.


> In partner swaps you can devote all your sexual energy for that particular get together to the one person, not your spouse, you're having sex with.
> 
> Threesomes always caused jealousy *with my wife, myself, or the third party*. That last one only happened once but my wife and I just really got into each other with her in the bed and ended up basically getting it on in front of her and leaving her hanging.
> 
> Multiple relationship partners, polyamory, whatever has an even bigger set of challenges because at some point there will be a conflict and a pecking order gets established. Whoever isn't at the top of the pecking order for someone else isn't going to like it. Nobody wants to be an afterthought.


Pecking orders are actually NOT required, and in some respect poly offers fewer challenges depending on where ones heads and hearts are at.


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## VermiciousKnid

NobodySpecial said:


> This is inaccurate.
> 
> 
> Pecking orders are actually NOT required, and in some respect poly offers fewer challenges depending on where ones heads and hearts are at.


Pecking orders are irrefutable in poly or any multi-partner situation be it sexual or any partnership scenario. We have partners A, B, and C. B and C need A to be there for them on the same day/same time. Both have something very important going on and want A by their side. A chooses someone's side to be by. Pecking order established. It ALWAYS happens. Conflicts are inevitable unless there is only one other partner.


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## As'laDain

VermiciousKnid said:


> Pecking orders are irrefutable in poly or any multi-partner situation be it sexual or any partnership scenario. We have partners A, B, and C. B and C need A to be there for them on the same day/same time. Both have something very important going on and want A by their side. A chooses someone's side to be by. Pecking order established. It ALWAYS happens. Conflicts are inevitable unless there is only one other partner.


that hasn't been my experience.


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## VermiciousKnid

As'laDain said:


> that hasn't been my experience.


You're only one person. If two entities of any kind, people or anything else, need your full attention at the same time, you'll choose one over the other. It even happens with children and parents. If you're not an only child you'll already know that. Pecking orders are part of nature in every species.


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## NobodySpecial

VermiciousKnid said:


> Pecking orders are irrefutable in poly or any multi-partner situation be it sexual or any partnership scenario.


Yet I know many people for whom this is not the case. It IS the case for DH and I since we share a home, mortgage, kids, a dog, a cat and 24 years of marriage. But it is not the case for many people I know.



> We have partners A, B, and C. B and C need A to be there for them on the same day/same time. Both have something very important going on and want A by their side. A chooses someone's side to be by. Pecking order established. It ALWAYS happens. Conflicts are inevitable unless there is only one other partner.


These people, being open to communication and not pitted in competition, get together and figure it out. Conflicts of practical resources is inevitable. Hierarchy of love and regard are not.


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## VermiciousKnid

NobodySpecial said:


> Yet I know many people for whom this is not the case. It IS the case for DH and I since we share a home, mortgage, kids, a dog, a cat and 24 years of marriage. But it is not the case for many people I know.
> 
> 
> 
> These people, being open to communication and not pitted in competition, get together and figure it out. Conflicts of practical resources is inevitable. Hierarchy of love and regard are not.


Communication is irrelevant. You can't be there for both partners equally. You'll pick. Even parents pick among their children. It's part of nature. The one who gets picked is on cloud 9. The other one, not so much. Ask anyone who grew up not at the top of the pecking order or anyone involved in a multi-partner relationship. It's impossible to prioritize all partners equally.


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## NobodySpecial

VermiciousKnid said:


> Communication is irrelevant. You can't be there for both partners equally.


Equality of value is not the same thing as being at any given place at any given time because some says they want it.



> You'll pick.


Hells no I won't. That is not what we signed up for. The onus would not be just on me to pick. The onus would be on ALL of us to determine what is need, want, and what might be pique. In my case, my husband and partner would be more likely to argue for the presence of the other than to be advocating for themselves. That's the thing. It is not about ownership rights. It is about caring. There have been many occasions where DH's partner needed him more, and while I would have liked him there, I said rock on.



> Even parents pick among their children. It's part of nature. The one who gets picked is on cloud 9. The other one, not so much. Ask anyone who grew up not at the top of the pecking order or anyone involved in a multi-partner relationship. It's impossible to prioritize all partners equally.


I am sorry you even grew up ON a pecking order regardless of where on it you feel. I certainly don't pick one child over the other! That is down right sad. I work my hardest to meet each of their needs. Craziness is that they have been raised to do the same.


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## VermiciousKnid

NobodySpecial said:


> Equality of value is not the same thing as being at any given place at any given time because some says they want it.
> 
> 
> Hells no I won't. That is not what we signed up for. The onus would not be just on me to pick. The onus would be on ALL of us to determine what is need, want, and what might be pique. In my case, my husband and partner would be more likely to argue for the presence of the other than to be advocating for themselves. That's the thing. It is not about ownership rights. It is about caring. There have been many occasions where DH's partner needed him more, and while I would have liked him there, I said rock on.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry you even grew up ON a pecking order regardless of where on it you feel. I certainly don't pick one child over the other! That is down right sad. I work my hardest to meet each of their needs. Craziness is that they have been raised to do the same.


You're a very rigid person and quite close-minded. You do every one of these things but it would take hell fire for you to admit it. There's no point in continuing the thread. I know human behavior. My undergrad is in psychology. It helps huge in my business. Everyone is part of a pecking order in every relationship in life. Work, friends, lovers, parent/child, whatever. You're not the one unique human being in history that isn't. You are stubborn so it's all good. Believe what you want and have a great life. I'm done with this thread. Especially since it's a zombie thread to begin with.


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## NobodySpecial

VermiciousKnid said:


> You're a very rigid person and quite close-minded. You do every one of these things but it would take hell fire for you to admit it.


I have done. We learned from it. Relationships are not static. DH has done. We learned from it. Wooo. Still I am glad you know me better than I know myself. Rigid is an interesting classification since I don't try to tell YOU who YOU are or how your relationships go.



> There's no point in continuing the thread. I know human behavior. My undergrad is in psychology. It helps huge in my business. Everyone is part of a pecking order in every relationship in life. Work, friends, lovers, parent/child, whatever. You're not the one unique human being in history that isn't. You are stubborn so it's all good. Believe what you want and have a great life. I'm done with this thread. Especially since it's a zombie thread to begin with.


I do not espouse to be unique. I am blessed that I am part of a community who lives this way and taught me a ton!


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## Steelman

Your wife and friend seem like hot messes. You have kids at home and she's two doors down in a 3 some at 3AM after being out all night? What kind of wife and mom is that?

The whole threesome thing sounds hot, but probably doesn't ever really work that well except for a small fraction of people. Especially with a friend.


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## As'laDain

VermiciousKnid said:


> You're a very rigid person and quite close-minded. You do every one of these things but it would take hell fire for you to admit it. There's no point in continuing the thread. I know human behavior. My undergrad is in psychology. It helps huge in my business. Everyone is part of a pecking order in every relationship in life. Work, friends, lovers, parent/child, whatever. You're not the one unique human being in history that isn't. You are stubborn so it's all good. Believe what you want and have a great life. I'm done with this thread. Especially since it's a zombie thread to begin with.


did you seriously just quote your academic qualifications as reason why you are correct in your assumptions of the relationship dynamics of other people? while at the same time calling those for whom your assumptions and assertions do not fit, rigid and close minded?

... i want to laugh so bad right now.... 

lol, ok, yep. 

out came a giggle. couldn't help it.


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## VermiciousKnid

As'laDain said:


> did you seriously just quote your academic qualifications as reason why you are correct in your assumptions of the relationship dynamics of other people? while at the same time calling those for whom your assumptions and assertions do not fit, rigid and close minded?
> 
> ... i want to laugh so bad right now....
> 
> lol, ok, yep.
> 
> out came a giggle. couldn't help it.


Then you put no stock into a therapist's opinion either. Pecking orders exist in everything you participate in in life. Everything. If you don't recognize them that doesn't mean they don't exist. You're not unique, neither is she.


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## Johann Sebastian

I've never tried it, and I wouldn't presume to tell someone else it's a bad idea. That being said, it just sounds like a corny porn fantasy. For most people, three's a crowd.


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## As'laDain

VermiciousKnid said:


> Then you put no stock into a therapist's opinion either. Pecking orders exist in everything you participate in in life. Everything. If you don't recognize them that doesn't mean they don't exist. You're not unique, neither is she.


i dont put stock into ANYONES opinion based on their academic qualifications. i do, however, take note of practical experience. 

so, how much practical experience do you have with non-hierarchical polyamory? anarchistic polyamory? polyfidelitous triads? 

what is YOUR experience with polyamory?


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## VermiciousKnid

As'laDain said:


> i dont put stock into ANYONES opinion based on their academic qualifications. i do, however, take note of practical experience.
> 
> so, how much practical experience do you have with non-hierarchical polyamory? anarchistic polyamory? polyfidelitous triads?
> 
> what is YOUR experience with polyamory?


Your questions are invalid because the concept of prioritization of relationships or a "pecking order" supersedes the type of relationship. Polyamory doesn't matter. The same dynamic exists in every relationship of more than 2 people. Teachers have students they prioritize over others. Coworkers have coworkers they prioritize over other coworkers. Friends have friends they prioritize over other friends. In a threesome there would be one you would prioritize over the other. Them too. That dynamic exists in all social creatures, not just humans. In prides of lions the male breeds multiple females but always prioritizes one over the other. This is not new science here. This has been studied in all social species for well over a hundred years. Goodall studied it with the apes, Kinsey, Freud, Masters, Darwin, etc. studied it among humans. This is not graduate level stuff, this is human behavior 101. Since you can't clone yourself and each clone give equal prioritization to one other person, then you choose. Sometimes not even consciously. If you're a triad and the other two people have very big important work things on opposite sides of the country and it's the biggest even of their professional lives, both want you to be there but that's impossible and neither is willing to concede, you'll choose to go with one and apologize to the other. Such is life.


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## As'laDain

VermiciousKnid said:


> Your questions are invalid because the concept of prioritization of relationships or a "pecking order" supersedes the type of relationship. Polyamory doesn't matter. The same dynamic exists in every relationship of more than 2 people. Teachers have students they prioritize over others. Coworkers have coworkers they prioritize over other coworkers. Friends have friends they prioritize over other friends. In a threesome there would be one you would prioritize over the other. Them too. That dynamic exists in all social creatures, not just humans. In prides of lions the male breeds multiple females but always prioritizes one over the other. This is not new science here. This has been studied in all social species for well over a hundred years. Goodall studied it with the apes, Kinsey, Freud, Masters, Darwin, etc. studied it among humans. This is not graduate level stuff, this is human behavior 101. Since you can't clone yourself and each clone give equal prioritization to one other person, then you choose. Sometimes not even consciously. If you're a triad and the other two people have very big important work things on opposite sides of the country and it's the biggest even of their professional lives, both want you to be there but that's impossible and neither is willing to concede, you'll choose to go with one and apologize to the other. Such is life.


so, basically, you have no experience? 

i am no respecter of men or theory, and your dogmatic adherence to the idea of a universal pecking orders adequately explains why. 

why didn't you mention the other options for dealing with such a situation?


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## FieryHairedLady

Diana7 said:


> I tried to cancel that post 4 times now.


You could go unlike his other post then.


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## VermiciousKnid

As'laDain said:


> so, basically, you have no experience?
> 
> i am no respecter of men or theory, and your dogmatic adherence to the idea of a universal pecking orders adequately explains why.
> 
> why didn't you mention the other options for dealing with such a situation?


Ah but it's not "my" adherence to the idea of pecking orders. It's the result of every behavioral scientist's research in planet history. As I said, it's not new science. If you're ignorant of that science that's not my concern. It doesn't make it any less real. As for my experience, I've been in relationships with more than 1 person at a time. Someone always has priority over the other. It's always that way for all people. If you'd like to initiate your own study, get it funded, conduct it, analyze the data, and publish the results then I fully encourage you to do so. For now I'll stick with the consensus opinion of every behavior scientist in history.


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## As'laDain

VermiciousKnid said:


> Ah but it's not "my" adherence to the idea of pecking orders. It's the result of every behavioral scientist's research in planet history. As I said, it's not new science. If you're ignorant of that science that's not my concern. It doesn't make it any less real. As for my experience, I've been in relationships with more than 1 person at a time. Someone always has priority over the other. It's always that way for all people. If you'd like to initiate your own study, get it funded, conduct it, analyze the data, and publish the results then I fully encourage you to do so. For now I'll stick with the consensus opinion of every behavior scientist in history.


yeah, well, you are the one telling me how i would react in certain situations, except that you failed to even mention my own responses to such situations. so, if my own behavior falls outside of your narrow assumption of what you predict it to be, then i would have to assume that i am either unique, or that your assumption is wrong. if you are basing this assumption on the work of others, then either they are wrong or i am unique, or you simply misunderstand the material presented by others. 

but if you are so certain that the science backs you up, then why dont you quote some links or point out some studies that show that everyone develops hierarchies as a universal and involuntary action? after all, you are the one saying that our experiences cannot be true. maybe we are in fact misunderstanding what you are talking about? 

enlighten us.


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## MattMatt

*Moderator message:-*

Please keep this thread on topic folks. Thank you.


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## NobodySpecial

As'laDain said:


> did you seriously just quote your academic qualifications as reason why you are correct in your assumptions of the relationship dynamics of other people?


Undergrad psych no less. I did math for undergrad. I am pretty sure I could not tell anyone much of anything about math.



> while at the same time calling those for whom your assumptions and assertions do not fit, rigid and close minded?
> 
> ... i want to laugh so bad right now....
> 
> lol, ok, yep.
> 
> out came a giggle. couldn't help it.


You are cracking me up.


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## NobodySpecial

VermiciousKnid said:


> Ah but it's not "my" adherence to the idea of pecking orders. It's the result of every behavioral scientist's research in planet history. As I said, it's not new science. If you're ignorant of that science that's not my concern. It doesn't make it any less real. As for my experience, I've been in relationships with more than 1 person at a time. Someone always has priority over the other. It's always that way for all people. If you'd like to initiate your own study, get it funded, conduct it, analyze the data, and publish the results then I fully encourage you to do so. For now I'll stick with the consensus opinion of every behavior scientist in history.


It is a source of much frustration in some communities how little different relationships/cultures and such have been studied. But regardless, the natural existence of a tendency toward pecking orders does not doom one to live within one. There are a LOT of "natural" behaviors we are able to stand above with our massive brains and impressive opposable thumbs. 

The point of this in THIS thread is to not blame THREESOMES as the big ugly but for the OP to recognize the manner of lack of caring, poor behavior, lies and worlds of other poo are already there lest he think declaring no more threesomes is an adequate solution.


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## VermiciousKnid

NobodySpecial said:


> It is a source of much frustration in some communities how little different relationships/cultures and such have been studied. But regardless, the natural existence of a tendency toward pecking orders does not doom one to live within one. There are a LOT of "natural" behaviors we are able to stand above with our massive brains and impressive opposable thumbs.
> 
> The point of this in THIS thread is to not blame THREESOMES as the big ugly but for the OP to recognize the manner of lack of caring, poor behavior, lies and worlds of other poo are already there lest he think declaring no more threesomes is an adequate solution.


Of course threesomes can be fun, I was just conveying the fact that you can't give both other people equal energy. It's not possible. In your own case of "challenges" you mentioned, when your hubby fell for someone else the thing that upset you most is that you were no longer at the top of his pecking order. She was. When you did it to him the same thing was true. The person at the top of someone's pecking order never complains. The favorite child of a parent, the teacher's pet, whoever. That person sees nothing wrong at all with the relationship. The person not at the top pecking order, like you when hubby fell for someone else, doesn't like it one bit, again, like you.


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## [email protected]

RandomDude said:


> @GuyFawkes
> 
> For open marriage and swinging to actually work in a healthy fashion, TRUST is one of the most important aspects of it.
> 
> Your wife betrayed it. As much as it may turn you on there is no happy ending from this.


Well done.

Trust is everything. I tell my wife to quit looking for trouble, because she is going to find it. But she will ask something like whether I told my girlfriend I love her. 

Well duh, of course I do. So why ask? But you have to say "yes". Then she is pissed off for a little while, and I ask her why she did that to herself. 

But if I lie, ever - it is going to be the seed that ruins this whole groovy thing.


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## skerzoid

You people thread jack much?


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## [email protected]

VermiciousKnid said:


> Of course threesomes can be fun, I was just conveying the fact that you can't give both other people equal energy.


You have people here who have experience where you have none. You have not studied threesomes as an academic subject or else you would have quoted studies on it. This is not an ego thing for us - we really want to share important insights, so listen to the voices of experience.

The "pecking order" business isn't how we view the whole thing. My wife gets off as a spectator watching it happen. Just like fifty thousand people watching a football game, it would be bizarre and inappropriate for your "pecking order" theory to be applied because the fans are enjoying the amazing athletic performance without actually participating in it themselves.

Likewise, my wife and I each look with tremendous fondness on our individual interactions with our children. It gives us each joy to see the child hugging mommy or daddy and saying how much they love each other. The "pecking order" business does not apply. The third person is getting joy out of the other two's interaction. 

My wife is so thrilled watching me eat another girl's ***** that it gives her an orgasm. This should not be hard to explain because people watch porn all the time, and get off as a spectator. There is no "pecking order". Because they are serving different functions. 

For the OP, he had his trust violated. That is always a losing proposition. It wasn't a problem with threesomes. He got really hammered by people who don't know much about threesomes and we really lost our way with the business of trust, which is paramount.


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## Windwalker

skerzoid said:


> You people thread jack much?


They are arguing over a zombie thread.
:rofl:


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## NobodySpecial

VermiciousKnid said:


> Of course threesomes can be fun, I was just conveying the fact that you can't give both other people equal energy. It's not possible. In your own case of "challenges" you mentioned, when your hubby fell for someone else the thing that upset you most is that you were no longer at the top of his pecking order. She was. When you did it to him the same thing was true. The person at the top of someone's pecking order never complains. The favorite child of a parent, the teacher's pet, whoever. That person sees nothing wrong at all with the relationship. The person not at the top pecking order, like you when hubby fell for someone else, doesn't like it one bit, again, like you.


Sigh. How to sum up a 5 year relationship and everything that came after with a paragraph of pseudo psych. You have no idea why I was upset.


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## NobodySpecial

Windwalker said:


> They are arguing over a zombie thread.
> :rofl:


I ALWAYS do this. When they get bumped, I never notice. Poo.


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## MattMatt

MODERATOR MESSAGE

This thread has been closed because it has gone off topic, despite a reminder.

If the OP returns this thread may be reopened if he requests it via a PM.


----------

