# Need advice for how to approach wife



## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

I have been married for nearly 7 years and have 2 children. My wife and I have had our ups and downs typical of any marriage, and most of our friends have always thought of us as a wonderful combination that could make it through anything from talking to them. However, over the past 2 months I started to notice a big difference in my wife's behaviors. She started going out with a girlfriend who is going through a divorce and staying out until 2am nearly every time. She always claimed it was to help her friend through her tough times, but I just had a bad feeling as it was happening 3 times a week, oftentimes weeknights and she works at a daycare and gets up at 5:30am. Her behaviors with her cell phone during this time also concerned me as she was constantly texting all night long and seemed very secretive. Her phone was never out of her hand or pocket and whenever I was sitting next to her and a text was received she immediately had to go to the bathroom or stand up to go "charge" her phone and then would read and respond. When I called her on it, she got terribly defensive and wouldn't let me see her phone. She said it was just with her girlfriend from work and I had no business seeing what they talked about. Then one Saturday night, her best friend and family came from out of state to visit. Apparently my wife tried to get her best friend to go out with her all Saturday, but her friend wasn’t up for it as they have 2 small kids as well and she went to bed around 11:30. Immediately after, my wife told me she was leaving to go out for a drink and just left. It was at that point, that I truly felt she was having an affair. When I got upset about her going out all the time, she just told me going out was fun and she enjoyed it and that I should go out more too and she felt bad for always making me feel bad for going out with friends occasionally. She also said she was feeling like we were more friends or buddies than husband and wife. When I looked up what this means, all online sites seemed to say this meant she found someone else.

Then one day I went online to check the phone records and my heart sank as I saw she was constantly texting 2 different phone numbers. I snuck her phone away from her and saw one of the numbers was a man’s name. I immediately asked her about it and she said it was just her girlfriends brother in law who is the bartender at the bar who gives them free drinks and is just a friend. I asked her if she had ever been to his house and she said just once with her girlfriend for 5 minutes to get free movie tickets, but swore our marriage that she had never been there any other times. Then I took her phone and went to a friends house to talk to him. I don’t really know why I took her phone, but it was just an emotional moment and I didn’t want her to be able to confide in him while I was gone. When I came back, I said I don’t believe your story and there is no way he is just a friend as the phone records showed 30-40 texts every single day for the past 3 weeks, not one day was ever missed and typically my wife is the one who started the texts each day. She finally admitted that one night her girlfriend was having a big fight with her husband so she left and texted the guy to see if she could go to his house to watch a movie. She said all that happened was he put his hand on her leg but she removed it. Then later that night I checked her Facebook and noticed she had sent some messages to her girlfriend asking her to warn the guy that I had her phone and that she was worried I would try to call or text him from her phone. She admitted several times that she’s pretty sure this is it and we’re getting divorced. Definitely nothing that seemed to make it seem like I was overreacting or even anything that said I think my husband is assuming the worst that I cheated. However, there was also nothing in there that concretely said I figured it out or anything other than her girlfriend did say “oh no, hopefully (the guy) doesn’t say anything”, which sure seems bad to me.

Then a couple days later she said she talked to her best friend (same friend who had visited a week earlier) and told me she told her everything and felt sorry for the first time and seemed a lot different. We had a great night and I truly thought change was coming. After a couple of days I couldn’t get over it still so I called her best friend and just asked her to explain to me why I shouldn’t worry. The second I asked why shouldn’t this guy concern me, she immediately stopped me and said she was never told anything about a guy. She was rather upset that she was lied to as well and never even knew my wife had left that Saturday when they were visiting. She just thought I was jealous of her going out with her girlfriend and had even told my wife that she should stop going out with her and work on us, and that was without even knowing about a guy and just thinking I was perhaps letting it get to me too much. My wife has stuck to her story and I told her I talked to her best friend and she has since admitted to her best friend everything she said to me. She seems to be different and wanting change for the most part. For the past 2 weeks, she has always planned on going out with her same girlfriend who got her in this whole mess today (Saturday) and staying over at her house tonight. Earlier this week I said if you do that, don’t come home and we’re divorcing. She thought that was ridiculous and said she was going out and wouldn’t be treated like a prisoner in her own home for the rest of her life. I said this isn’t for the rest of our life, but I just found out everything within a week ago so this is too soon. I finally said you could go out today and shop all day with her and go out tonight as long as you come home to sleep. She was pretty upset but finally after I basically demanded it she agreed, but said it would be late (2-3am) and she’d have to get a cab because she’d be drinking too much. She has never had to get drunk like this before in her life, she has fun partying and will get drunk when she doesn’t have to drive but has never had to be like this before. Now here I am, reading posts on this site and finding stories that are much too similar to mine that say she is cheating without a doubt. At this point, I don’t know what to do, how to get the truth or if I ever will. Do I just leave or tell her to leave, or do I confront the guy since I know where he works at least? I just want the honest truth so I can decide how to move on with our family. I have even told her I can deal with the truth if she cheated and it doesn’t necessarily mean I will leave, but I can’t deal with what I have been told up to this point.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

Also, when I did finally take her phone, all texts had been deleted and since last weekend when I did this she has continued to delete all texts. She told me she did text him last Sunday evening to never text back anymore and so far, they have not texted each other again, but she is texting her girlfriend even more now. Of course, right after telling him they couldn't text anymore, she deleted the texts rather than showing me to prove that's what she said.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Which phone is she using?


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## mrsamazing (Feb 9, 2012)

That realy sucks. She is in the "fog" and no where near ready to quit what shes doing. She should not be going out with the friend of hers AT ALL. That friend is an enemy to your marraige. There are a multitude of changes she must make to stay with you. Stand up for your marraige and dont *****foot around here.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

Verizon HTC Rezound


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Do you know if it has a sim card?


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

I believe it does, but I had read online that Verizon has some lock on all their phones to retrieve deleted texts. I couldn't really find anything else that made it seem like it was possible either.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> I believe it does, but I had read online that Verizon has some lock on all their phones to retrieve deleted texts. I couldn't really find anything else that made it seem like it was possible either.


Do you have a card reader? On the net there are some extractor's that can get deleted texts.

Also does it have a memory card? It might contain some pics/videos. How to Recover Deleted Pictures & Videos from HTC Rezound


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

She is following the cheater's script to the letter.

Just a friend or other girls relative (yeah right. He is her lover).

No I have never been to his house. OK I went there once to watch a movie alone with him (she went there for sex.)

You are controlling and holding her prisoner. (You are getting too close to exposing her secret life and does not want it to change.)

OK I'll she will come home, but not until 2-3:00 AM. (Are you kidding me.)

I think you have enough evidence to ensure that she is cheating on you and you know who she is doing it with. No need to confront the OM because he has been warned. That is why she got so upset when you took her phone. She was afraid you would call him and he would say something that did not agree with all the lies she has fed you. Also why she sent the FB message to her GF to get her to warn OM.

If you have to get concrete evidence. Activate the "Find My Phone" App on the iPhone. It will give you the address of where she is. 

Get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and velcro it under the driver's seat of her car. Maybe get another one to place in the bedroom or bathroom of your house (where ever you see her run to when she want to be alone with her phone.

She is using her GF to communicate with him and arrange the dates and hook-ups.

Have you tried to back up her iPhone oh a computer. You will need iTunes installed on the computer. Then when you can sync the phone. It will recover at least a month of deleted text. Other here can give step by step instruction.

She is now taking everything underground. You need to back off a little and act as if you are OK with what she is doing now. 

Start your snooping. She will slip up and then you will know everything.

Good luck

Edit: Whoops - sorry - I thought she had an iPhone.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She is in an emotional affair at the very least with this man and using the toxic friend as a cover. 

Do the text snooping according to what the folks here tell you to do. If I were you, next time you know she is going out, trade cars with a friend and follow her. See where she goes. 

Take pics, gather evidence from texts and e-mail, scrub her computer of ever bit of info you can. Don't make a move until you have concrete proof she is cheating. Then confront... and be ready to show her the door.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You realize that she is going to have sex with him today right?

She had hoped to make it an all night sleep over with the friend covering for her. 

Do you know where the guy lives or his phone number? If so you need to get someone to watch your kids tonight while you go check up on her at his place. 

My guess is the gf is covering for her hooking up. Sit outside the guys house and see if she shows up there. 

The other thing to do is check which under wear she wears out tonight both before and especially after. See if you can grab them from the laundry and have them tested for sperm


I'm sorry but there is no way she waited for her friend to go to bed and then headed out if there was no affair going on. He called her and told her to meet him that night
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Listen to Shaggy. He's rarely wrong. 

You need to act fast and decisively.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

It's not an iPhone, so I don't know if those apps exist for her phone or not. She never makes phone calls, its literally all done with texting to her friend and never one call was made to the guy throughout everything. But I agree, I do still feel like she is going through her friend to talk to him and set stuff up, I can't help but not to think that. Why won't she just leave me, I don't get it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She is preparing to leave you, but she won't cut the cord until she is sure the OM will take her 100% 

You are her safety net. In her fog, she still thinks she is pulling one over on you.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> It's not an iPhone, so I don't know if those apps exist for her phone or not. She never makes phone calls, its literally all done with texting to her friend and never one call was made to the guy throughout everything. But I agree, I do still feel like she is going through her friend to talk to him and set stuff up, I can't help but not to think that. Why won't she just leave me, I don't get it.


She has the security of marriage from you and the fun of sex with other men. 

Start seperating finances, removing her names from credit cards/bank accounts, put valuable items in a safe. Do these under the radar without tipping her off. 

Sorry to say but just from what you wrote your marriage has been off for a while and she has no interest in fixing it. Take the matters into your hand and start protecting yourself.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

According to my wife he's working at the bar tonight and she promised they won't be going to that bar. I should probably call to find out if he is working. If so, maybe I just need to go there. I know his name but he is completely unlisted, can't find his address anywhere.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Dont call him. It would only tip them off.

Follow her tonight and see for yourself where she is going.

Cheaters LIE, LIE and LIE. Don't believe a thing she says.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yes. Get a friend to trade cars with you and figure out a way to follow her.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Look up in pipl.com and spokeo to see if you can fInd him 

Don't believe her. She may be meeting him before or after his shift. Can you check her texts or has she gone underground. 

It really sounds like she planned on hooking up tonight. Get those panties and check them. You can use an at home sperm testing kit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If she suddenly stopped usIng her phone she might have bought an affair phone. It's very common
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> It's not an iPhone, so I don't know if those apps exist for her phone or not. She never makes phone calls, its literally all done with texting to her friend and never one call was made to the guy throughout everything. But I agree, I do still feel like she is going through her friend to talk to him and set stuff up, I can't help but not to think that. Why won't she just leave me, I don't get it.


Most betrayed spouses never understand.

She is using you as house husband, banker and babysitter while she lives the wild life of a single party girl. Having to provide for herself, maintain her own residence and be responsible for the kids half of the time will cut into her party time. Also the OM is OK with scr*wing a married woman, but she knows that if that changes he will probably bail.

Again, you need to act calm and unconcerned. All communication is now going underground. Watch out for an affair phone hidden in her car or in her purse. A pre-paid phone that you do not even know about. 

And like another here said, she has a date with him tonight. She intended to make it all night long but you ruined her plans. You could find out a lot if you could track her tonight. Have a friend she doesn't know do it if possible. He could go into the bars unnoticed (assuming she actually goes to the bar first).


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

She did have to all of a sudden leave at 9:15am this morning to go watch her girlfriends daughter while her girlfriend went to an eyebrow waxing since her babsitter fell through. Maybe it already happened, cuz her plans of going shopping in a nearby city have now not happened as she just said they stayed in town to go shopping since her and her girlfriend decided to just "hang out" instead.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Easier to just have a friend follow her from the house, then you can leave a few minutes later and go to where he tells you to meet him. That shouldn't arouse suspicion like you trying to leave the exact time as her.

Tonight will probably not be a good night. If you find her with OM, do all you can to fight the urge to crack his skull...you'll have an assault charge filed on you. If you see him and want to confront them, fine. But do it as calmly and quickly as possible. Tell her "You lied to my face...I'm done with it. Don't come home. You don't live there anymore." Then tell OM "You can have her, good luck." Maybe add "c0******** " to the end of that for good measure.

If it were me, and I caught them together tonight, I would probably not confront, just go home and pack her a bag to put by the door...and then go dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

You are completely right, she is cheating without a doubt.

It's hard to read between the lines, but I gather what YOU mean by cheating is whether it's become a physical affair. That we don't know yet, but she's barrelling in that direction at the speed of light, if she isn't already there.

Let's set that aside for a moment.

She has already betrayed you and the marriage in numerous ways without it having to go as far as you fear. The main thing that she has done is lie, and lie, and lie. As you can see, it's reached a point where you would be foolish to believe anything more that she says.

Confronting her further at this point will only teach her that she needs to hide it more carefully.

Your hurt, anger, and pain at what she's doing are not factors in what she chooses to do next. It is not about you right now, it's about her, her, her.

You need to research the OM and find out all you can about him--is he married, does he have a girlfriend.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> She did have to all of a sudden leave at 9:15am this morning to go watch her girlfriends daughter while her girlfriend went to an eyebrow waxing since her babsitter fell through. Maybe it already happened, cuz her plans of going shopping in a nearby city have now not happened as she just said they stayed in town to go shopping since her and her girlfriend decided to just "hang out" instead.


Make sure get a hold of her panties.

Can you buy and place a GPS in her car today?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

keko said:


> Make sure get a hold of her panties.
> 
> Can you buy and place a GPS in her car today?


:iagree:

Why would she HAVE TO LEAVE?? Couldn't her GF drop her kid off at your house?? A very lame excuse. And yes something is up with this. They are definitely now conspiring closely to keep you from finding out the truth. Time for you to enlist some helpful buddies you can trust.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Why would she HAVE TO LEAVE?? Couldn't her GF drop her kid off at your house?? A very lame excuse. And yes something is up with this. They are definitely now conspiring closely to keep you from finding out the truth. Time for you to enlist some helpful buddies you can trust.


My guess would be they're hooking up right now.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> She did have to all of a sudden leave at 9:15am this morning to go watch her girlfriends daughter while her girlfriend went to an eyebrow waxing since her babsitter fell through. Maybe it already happened, cuz her plans of going shopping in a nearby city have now not happened as she just said they stayed in town to go shopping since her and her girlfriend decided to just "hang out" instead.


Can you confirm the girlfriend "waxing" story w a third party? Same w shopping (not sure which gf this is...toxic divorcee, best friend, someone else?)

She clearly has a lot of balls in the air spinning lies to everyone around her. They've got to fall soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

I have no idea where her friend lives and she is unlisted as well. I did just call the bar and he is working right now, I'm sure it sounded suspicious and I just gave a fake name and then hung up before he came to the phone.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> I have no idea where her friend lives and she is unlisted as well. I did just call the bar and he is working right now, I'm sure it sounded suspicious and I just gave a fake name and then hung up before he came to the phone.


Until when is he working? 

Do you think they are meeting at your wife's friends house? Orgy going on maybe?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If you want the truth you will have to find it your self. 

Get the VAR and place it in the car, you didi mention that conversations were taking place but that there rare so the VAR will take some time.

Hire a PI expensive but well woth it

Don't use your own car to follow her, in fact it's best you get a friend to to this, your do emotional and will push the limits to follow her and it will get you caught. 

Get a GPS if you don't have the support I mentioned above, this will give you a better chance to track at a distance. Locating her car after 2AM there is a good chance she not going anywere soon.

Plant some hidden cams in the house.

Take some time off of work,rent a car, get a hotel, tell your working out of town for a week, follow up on the bartenter, he;s your best lead, following him 1st may give you a better idea when and were your WW will be after you get more details on him.

Alot of work brother, that why its expensive for a PI.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

It also sucks cuz when we have good nights this past week and I don't get upset, we have really good nights. She also says I love you still and things actually seem to be improving as long as I don't bring all this back up. But then when she didn't want to come home tonight I got all upset again and although I feel it's warranted, if I go to the bar to confront him and find out nothing but suspect he's lying from how he says it, then all I've done is ruined any chance with my wife that she isn't lying. I know there isn't really 1 sign pointing to her not cheating, and it's foolish for me to think that, but isn't there at least a chance that she was just down about our marriage and he gave her something other than sex that made her feel good about herself. But deep down she knew it was wrong so she couldn't tell me since she wanted to keep doing it. Sure, it probably would have resulted in an affair but maybe it didn't and I'm just worried if I go to this stalker status and get caught then I've lost all her trust as well and at that point, I would agree, whats the point of being married if you have to go to that level?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> I know there isn't really 1 sign pointing to her not cheating, and it's foolish for me to think that, but isn't there at least a chance that she was just down about our marriage and he gave her something other than sex that made her feel good about herself.


As hard it is, you have to play dumb husband until you can find hard evidence of an affair or not.

zabasearch.com for address search


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok here's what went down today. You ruined her night tIme hookup so she met with him this morning for daytime sex together. 

Get those panties. Watch her when she comes home tonight. Want to bet she needs a shower or else is freshly showered already? Try making a move on her and see just his quickly she rejects you. 

Btw. She may still try to pull the too drunk to come home card. 

You need to find this gf and where she lives. I'm betting she's home while your wife is out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Hire a PI to follow and check up on him and her. They will get the goods if there are goods to get. Watch for unexplained missing time and sudden changes in plans like today's babysitting 

Get a gps installed in her car along with a var in it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If you want answers you will need to quitly do it your self.

Confront with out proof is a waste

Find some one to follow her, Get the GPS , get the VAR, if you have to get a PI. THis will eat at you and eat at you. years from now even if she changes her behavior and is a great wife for the 20 years, you will have this question eating you up.

At the very least get the answers that will help you move on....with or with out your wife.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

has any one not told OP anything other then what we are telling him post after post?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Well, now you know why her friend is getting divorced and your WW walked right through the same door.

I agree that she needs to be tailed tonight.

How old are you guys and how old are your kids? Who was the second number she was calling frequently?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

keko said:


> Orgy going on maybe?


This is a *bartender* we're talking about. What do you think?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> This is a *bartender* we're talking about. What do you think?


The other las vegas guy. Everytime I see toxic friends and a bar involved fist thing that comes to mind is that.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The only good thing from that thread is RG got the whole truth from WW when he confronted her with hard facts and real thruths. 

That guy had lic. plate numbers and addresses, everything need to blow his WW out of the water. That basic info just made his WW come clean.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> It also sucks cuz when we have good nights this past week and I don't get upset, we have really good nights. She also says I love you still and things actually seem to be improving as long as I don't bring all this back up. But then when she didn't want to come home tonight I got all upset again and although I feel it's warranted, if I go to the bar to confront him and find out nothing but suspect he's lying from how he says it, then all I've done is ruined any chance with my wife that she isn't lying. I know there isn't really 1 sign pointing to her not cheating, and it's foolish for me to think that, but isn't there at least a chance that she was just down about our marriage and he gave her something other than sex that made her feel good about herself. But deep down she knew it was wrong so she couldn't tell me since she wanted to keep doing it. Sure, it probably would have resulted in an affair but maybe it didn't and I'm just worried if I go to this stalker status and get caught then I've lost all her trust as well and at that point, I would agree, whats the point of being married if you have to go to that level?


Look, your wife is lying and it's all about sex. Or more correctly, the chemicals unleashed on the brain when a woman has sex with a new guy and secondarily and subsequently, the feel good chemicals in the guy's semen that get absorbed through the vagina (and possibly sublingually) that elevate her mood and help create a bond. In practice, it doesn't matter whether she's banging him for the raw sex or the chemistry, both trains go through the same tunnel.

Don't get offended, but you're going to have to start thinking with a little craftiness, which you haven't done so far. I know it's tough since your marriage is in a death spiral, but you have to think a few moves ahead of your wife. You're one of the guys that is going to need iron clad proof, since your are rationalizing away the proof you have, and that's why you need to actively try to catch your wife and her lover(s) in or near the act; for your own piece of mind first, and to shut down her denial machine second.

Implement all the previous investigatory suggestions tonight. Plus the tail, either yourself or someone else. Do you have a video camera? Put it on a tripod in the back seat floor of your car to record the events. Don't do any confronting at the bar where the OM works. Don't even go in there, just be there when he walks out the door. Do you know what he even looks like?


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

She knows you are watching her calls and is now in stealth mode. You can see your wife now is like a drug addict and can't stay away even when you know what she is doing basically. Unless you follow her or have her followed she will continue to be one step ahead at all times. If you you can't/won't then file for divorce and expose....this has a sobering affect on cheaters.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> Sure, it probably would have resulted in an affair but maybe it didn't and I'm just worried if I go to this stalker status and get caught then I've lost all her trust as well and at that point, I would agree, whats the point of being married if you have to go to that level?


 You just do not get it. Sex or no sex with the OM, the other man (OM) has a relationship with your wife that is inappropriate just by virtue of the secret communications. Sex or no sex with the OM, getting drunk at bars and coming home at 3am is not acceptable behavior in a marraige. Sex or no sex with the OM, your wife is spending too much time with a toxic friend that is getting a divorce and is using your wife as her wing-man as she hunts for men. Sex or no sex with the OM, you wife told you that she sees you as more of a friend or buddy rather than as her husband, this is cheaters code for I love you but an not in love with you. Your marraige is in big trouble already, so you need to stop letting your fear of taking the wrong action stop you from taking any real action, because doing nothing will eventually mean the end of your marraige anyway. 

In marriage proving that your spouse has not had sex with some else is not a prerequisite, for you demanding that she start acting like a married woman. Demand the following:

1) Full no contact (NC) with the OM.
2) To verify this NC, she must give you full transparency with phones, computers, text messages, etc. Tell her that you will give her the same full transparency because, except when going to the bathroom, married people do not have a right to privacy from each other.
3) No more acting like a single person and going to bars etc without you.
4) Since the toxic friend that is getting a divorce was party to her relationship with the OM, and is using her as a wing-man as she hunts for men, she must end her relationship with this toxic friend now.

As it is heading now, your marraige is probably over. Taking action now is your best chance at saving it. It may already be too late, in which case you will finally know and can move on.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shamwow said:


> Easier to just have a friend follow her from the house, then you can leave a few minutes later and go to where he tells you to meet him. That shouldn't arouse suspicion like you trying to leave the exact time as her.
> 
> Tonight will probably not be a good night. If you find her with OM, do all you can to fight the urge to crack his skull...you'll have an assault charge filed on you. If you see him and want to confront them, fine. But do it as calmly and quickly as possible. Tell her "You lied to my face...I'm done with it. Don't come home. You don't live there anymore." Then tell OM "You can have her, good luck." Maybe add "c0******** " to the end of that for good measure.
> 
> ...


You need to put her stuff in a garbage bag put it on the porch and text her to get it. Buy new locks at lowes and change them. Text her that her key no longer fits.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Girls night out takes down yet another marriage. Where do people get the idea their spouse can go out drinking and not act like other drunk people? It boggles the mind.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

DO NOT GO TO THE BAR TO CONFRONT OM!!!! 

That will be a waste of time as he has already been warned that you may call or contact him.

DO NOT CONFRONT ANYONE UNTIL YOU HAVE PROOF!!!

Everyone here is sure she is in an affair but you really have no proof. The only thing you can prove is that your wife is an idiot who likes to go out and get drunk.

Slow down on the urge to confront. You need proof that they are spending time together outside of the bar. I would say have a friend follow her or GPS her car. You are too emotional and would probably do something stupid and get arrested if you did find them together.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Girls night out takes down yet another marriage. Where do people get the idea their spouse can go out drinking and not act like other drunk people? It boggles the mind.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Playing with gasoline and matches and then act dumb founded when it blows up in their faces.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

You know, I think the wives who are ripe for an affair LOOK for GNOs. It seems the women who very regularly do this are in a life they don't want (marriage), so they behave as if they are in another one (single), and eventually find a guy.

Very occasional GNOs are fine - but when they become regular it's a disaster waiting to happen. If my W started going into that pattern, I would be start making preparations for D.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

While a lot of these messages were coming out for me not to go confront the guy, I was already on my way...I talked to him and he denied everything at first...I asked him if they talked outside of the bar and he said no, then said well we text every now and then...then I asked if she had been to his house and he said no, then it changed to once with her girlfriend...when I kept telling him that she had told me she had been to his house more than that he finally admitted that one time she came with her girlfriend and then her girlfriend left and she stayed. I asked how long she stayed and he said about as long as it took to watch a movie. I had already even said the name of the movie and he couldn't remember the movie when I asked him again after he admitted to it, and said "Fred?"...then I said no, you watched "Red" and he goes "oh yeah, the one with Bruce Willis". Up to this point, he lied about every single thing and I realized it was a completely useless visit, but then said about 3-4 times in a row that I shouldn't leave her and that there is nothing to worry about. He also said "she didn't do anything wrong, well ok she lied to you, but she didn't do anything worth getting a divorce over". I'm not sure if the reason he said this was because nothing really happened or because he really is just using her for sex and doesn't really like her. If I broke the marriage up, perhaps that scares him and makes him realize he would be done with her? I'm trying to be devil's advocate and assume the 2nd part is the truth, because otherwise I don't get why he would say that. If he honestly was a good guy that was just her friend why not just be honest. The fact that he didn't want to admit to anything at first does make me think he hasn't talked to my wife since I found out or you'd think he would have had some of the story matching, so I don't know if him lying might actually be somewhat good or not. If it truly was a friendship, I don't understand why he'd be worried at all to just be honest from the start either though.


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## Onmyway (Apr 25, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> It also sucks cuz when we have good nights this past week and I don't get upset, we have really good nights. She also says I love you still and things actually seem to be improving as long as I don't bring all this back up. But then when she didn't want to come home tonight I got all upset again and although I feel it's warranted, if I go to the bar to confront him and find out nothing but suspect he's lying from how he says it, then all I've done is ruined any chance with my wife that she isn't lying. I know there isn't really 1 sign pointing to her not cheating, and it's foolish for me to think that, but isn't there at least a chance that she was just down about our marriage and he gave her something other than sex that made her feel good about herself. But deep down she knew it was wrong so she couldn't tell me since she wanted to keep doing it. Sure, it probably would have resulted in an affair but maybe it didn't and I'm just worried if I go to this stalker status and get caught then I've lost all her trust as well and at that point, I would agree, whats the point of being married if you have to go to that level?


I'm just pointing this out, the worst part about my wife's affair wasn't the sex part, that was like number 3 on the list. The emotional aspect is much worse, her telling him that she loved him hurt much worse than hearing about the handjob she gave him. Her having sex with him was nothing like hearing about how she chased him.

And worse than either of those is that she lied to me in so many ways to cover herself. The sex hurt my ego, the lies and emotional aspect destroyed it.

Not having sex doesn't mean it's not an affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I think that a GNO that is nothing more than some married ladies getting together for dinner or going to a movie or going to a special event can be fine and even good for the marriage.

But when a married woman starts hanging out with single girls and they are going to bars and clubs it is a ticket to disaster. It may not even be that the wife has any intention of doing anything inappropriate. But in that environment, she will get approached by men. She might even be surprised that she LIKES the attention and craves more. It's all downhill from there.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

H,

Big mistake on confronting the OM. Why would you even considering believing someone who took your wife to his house? Seriously do you believe they only watched a movie? C'mon.

When was the last time you had sex with her?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> While a lot of these messages were coming out for me not to go confront the guy, I was already on my way...I talked to him and he denied everything at first...I asked him if they talked outside of the bar and he said no, then said well we text every now and then...then I asked if she had been to his house and he said no, then it changed to once with her girlfriend...when I kept telling him that she had told me she had been to his house more than that he finally admitted that one time she came with her girlfriend and then her girlfriend left and she stayed. I asked how long she stayed and he said about as long as it took to watch a movie. I had already even said the name of the movie and he couldn't remember the movie when I asked him again after he admitted to it, and said "Fred?"...then I said no, you watched "Red" and he goes "oh yeah, the one with Bruce Willis". Up to this point, he lied about every single thing and I realized it was a completely useless visit, but then said about 3-4 times in a row that I shouldn't leave her and that there is nothing to worry about. He also said "she didn't do anything wrong, well ok she lied to you, but she didn't do anything worth getting a divorce over". I'm not sure if the reason he said this was because nothing really happened or because he really is just using her for sex and doesn't really like her. If I broke the marriage up, perhaps that scares him and makes him realize he would be done with her? I'm trying to be devil's advocate and assume the 2nd part is the truth, because otherwise I don't get why he would say that. If he honestly was a good guy that was just her friend why not just be honest. The fact that he didn't want to admit to anything at first does make me think he hasn't talked to my wife since I found out or you'd think he would have had some of the story matching, so I don't know if him lying might actually be somewhat good or not. If it truly was a friendship, I don't understand why he'd be worried at all to just be honest from the start either though.


OK you screwed up. Everyone tried to tell you he had been prepared by your wife and her toxic GF. Why would you confront a lying creep and expect anything other than lies. And just in case you don't realize it, that line that she hadn't done anything to get a divorce over was exactly what she told him to say.

Edit: Where is that damn banging your head against a brick wall emoticon?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> While a lot of these messages were coming out for me not to go confront the guy, I was already on my way...I talked to him and he denied everything at first...I asked him if they talked outside of the bar and he said no, then said well we text every now and then...then I asked if she had been to his house and he said no, then it changed to once with her girlfriend...when I kept telling him that she had told me she had been to his house more than that he finally admitted that one time she came with her girlfriend and then her girlfriend left and she stayed. I asked how long she stayed and he said about as long as it took to watch a movie. I had already even said the name of the movie and he couldn't remember the movie when I asked him again after he admitted to it, and said "Fred?"...then I said no, you watched "Red" and he goes "oh yeah, the one with Bruce Willis". Up to this point, he lied about every single thing and I realized it was a completely useless visit, but then said about 3-4 times in a row that I shouldn't leave her and that there is nothing to worry about. He also said "she didn't do anything wrong, well ok she lied to you, but she didn't do anything worth getting a divorce over". I'm not sure if the reason he said this was because nothing really happened or because he really is just using her for sex and doesn't really like her. If I broke the marriage up, perhaps that scares him and makes him realize he would be done with her? I'm trying to be devil's advocate and assume the 2nd part is the truth, because otherwise I don't get why he would say that. If he honestly was a good guy that was just her friend why not just be honest. The fact that he didn't want to admit to anything at first does make me think he hasn't talked to my wife since I found out or you'd think he would have had some of the story matching, so I don't know if him lying might actually be somewhat good or not. If it truly was a friendship, I don't understand why he'd be worried at all to just be honest from the start either though.


Did you leave him with the impression he was on dangerous ground?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

:banghead:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

keko said:


> :banghead:


Not necessarily. If I had talked to the bartender,he would have been in fear of his life.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

keko said:


> :banghead:


Thanks
Chappy I think it was provided because I asked in the previous post. Not a response to yours.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Not necessarily. If I had talked to the bartender,he would have been in fear of his life.


Yea but the OP is too beta. He can't even say NO to his wife for going out until early morning. I bet once she finds out he visited the OM she'll be busting his balls.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

As long as you keep giving your wife the money to go to his bar and get the tips and any other benifits, he will tell you what ever you wnat to hear.

face it bro they synced there story's the idiot messed up the name of the movie. You are getting played, until you shut up cool off and go stealth they all are one step ahead of you.

Sorry but you need to do some damage control and lie your @ss off to your WW. Tell WW you talk to the OM and the stories match and apoligize for doubting her (btw she already knows you two talked) any way this is a dead end.

From now on its a dead end its all a dead end you are on to her and she knows how close you are and she will lay low. What really f^cked is no matter how fragile the marriage is right now she will go out, but she will lay low.

Settle the f^ck down and if you want the truth you to will lay low and give her enough rope to hang her self.

Or


You except this behavior as unexceptable and you get a lawyer on Monday and have her served. It will then be up to your WW to change and with draw the divorce before its finalized and continue with the divorce as she continue to screw up her marriage.


Dude your are so affraid and continue to doubt everything, only to make misstake after misstake instead of cooling your jets and going stealth and finding the truth in a calm and collected way.

Make a plan and work the plan. In doing this you need to breath step back and regroup.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> DO NOT CONFRONT ANYONE UNTIL YOU HAVE PROOF!!!
> 
> Everyone here is sure she is in an affair but you really have no proof. The only thing you can prove is that your wife is an idiot who likes to go out and get drunk.


 You are in effect saying that unless he has proof of her having sex with the other man (OM) her actions to date are acceptable and should be allowed to continue. They are not. Her current actions are out of line for a married woman and are reason to take action in and of themselves. Waiting for proof of cheating is also waiting until it is too late to save the marriage. What if he would like to try to save his marraige before she crosses the line of no return and not after? The fact that he has no proof of her having sex with the OM may mean that she has not done it yet. If she has not, she is certainly heading there, and the sooner he takes action to stop it the better.

Why do so many posters seem to want to have after the fact proof that their marraige is over before taking action, when taking action and stopping inappropriate behavior early is the only way to have a chance at saving a marraige?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> Up to this point, he lied about every single thing and I realized it was a completely useless visit


Rookie mistake to confront the OM. Everyone tries to reinvent the wheel when it comes to breaking up an affair. :banghead: I made tons of mistakes myself, so I can hardly blame you. It's just frustrating to watch it play out live, because many of us want so much for you to learn from our mistakes.



help_me_2001 said:


> If I broke the marriage up, perhaps that scares him and makes him realize he would be done with her?


 I'm not very surprised. Let's see, he met your wife at a bar, where he was searching for the love of his life...

You should take full advantage of this bit of information. Although we can't be certain that this isn't a lie too (see above) more likely than not he was just using your wife.

Unfortunately, we have no idea what his standards are for 'nothing worth getting a divorce over.' An ONS? A BJ? While these may not be dealbreakers for you either, I don't think you can use this as evidence for what your wife did, or did not, do.

It's still possible she didn't cross the finish line. But you are right, you must take all of the evidence as a whole and brace yourself for the worst.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So option 1 go off and shout your mouth off demanding answers (this things goes no were and WW justifies way she wants out)

option 2 go dark and investigate how far gone WW really is ( it take time and alot of pain but you get the truth to have an effective confrontation)

option 3 screw the truth file monday get her served and see if she changes before the D is finalized. (best way to make WW face the consequnence and she stops behaving this way...but no truth)


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> DO NOT GO TO THE BAR TO CONFRONT OM!!!!
> 
> That will be a waste of time as he has already been warned that you may call or contact him.
> 
> ...



...and lie to his face about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

TRy said:


> Why do so many posters seem to want to have after the fact proof that their marraige is over before taking action, when taking action and stopping inappropriate behavior early is the only way to have a chance at saving a marraige?


Because they may take it underground.

You and I might not be fooled by this, but OPs are desperate. They want so badly to trust and believe that their spouse is still the same person they married. They too often buy, hook, line and sinker, "nothing happened," or "you're controlling" or whatever works to keep the OP under their thumb.

No one is saying sit back and let them have at it for weeks on end. Just don't jump the gun so fast because of how newly betrayed OP psychology works. We just keep seeing it over and over.  it is so depressing.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

We've honestly had sex this past week on 2 different nights. First time in a really long time that's happened to be honest. And in all honestly, it was really good sex, hard to explain but it felt like it was way more than just having sex, which is what really gave me hope. I think I walked away from the bar feeling good because of what he he had said at the end, but the more I thought about it, the more I wondered if he would just say that because he really doesn't want anything more than what they have. That or my wife has made him think the only way they keep going is if it stays a secret. If he really was an honest guy and my wife is just the absolute worst liar in the world, I still think he would have just been honest from the start and admitted to texting and her being at his house. He still never admitted to the truth about how she came over by herself, he never gave into that even though he did finally say after my wife's girlfriend left she stayed. But if that was the truth my wife never would have lied and said she went by herself as that sounds so much worse, so I know he was just too afraid to admit it in case I was just bluffing or something. I've talked to my wife in the past hour through texting and she is upset and now isn't sure she is even coming home. Of course now I just wonder if that means she is going to talk to him tonight and feels the need to apologize. The last text I got said I'm not answering any of your texts for a while just so you know. It's all F'ed up and I don't think I can take it anymore. No matter how crazy I am, and everything I've done to want to steal her phone, look up her texting, confront her boyfriend, there is no way she can put the blame on me and that's what keeps happening.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Dude stop having sex with her and get tested for STD's like yesterday.

Is she going out tonight?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So what option are are you going to take?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

This is why you should never have spoken to the OM under these conditions. Now he's inside your head and messing with it.

He was never your issue, anyhow. Your issue is with your wife.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

keko said:


> Yea but the OP is too beta. He can't even say NO to his wife for going out until early morning. I bet once she finds out he visited the OM she'll be busting his balls.


Well it did take stones to go talk to the bartender. It just depends on what the bartender thought when OP left. Was he laughing or wondering if he should be watching his back.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Boy does she have your number. I can't believe you let her get away with this? Were are your boundries? Are you that codependent?

She has abandon the family and you are to scared to show her the tough love that will show her you will no longer be her doormate.

Do you want to know what your next step is?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

He just gave a free sex permission for tonight.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

keko said:


> Yea but the OP is too beta. He can't even say NO to his wife for going out until early morning. I bet once she finds out he visited the OM she'll be busting his balls.


She probably knew before he was out of the bar.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> We've honestly had sex this past week on 2 different nights. First time in a really long time that's happened to be honest. And in all honestly, it was really good sex, hard to explain but it felt like it was way more than just having sex, which is what really gave me hope. I think I walked away from the bar feeling good because of what he he had said at the end, but the more I thought about it, the more I wondered if he would just say that because he really doesn't want anything more than what they have. That or my wife has made him think the only way they keep going is if it stays a secret. If he really was an honest guy and my wife is just the absolute worst liar in the world, I still think he would have just been honest from the start and admitted to texting and her being at his house. He still never admitted to the truth about how she came over by herself, he never gave into that even though he did finally say after my wife's girlfriend left she stayed. But if that was the truth my wife never would have lied and said she went by herself as that sounds so much worse, so I know he was just too afraid to admit it in case I was just bluffing or something. I've talked to my wife in the past hour through texting and she is upset and now isn't sure she is even coming home. Of course now I just wonder if that means she is going to talk to him tonight and feels the need to apologize. The last text I got said I'm not answering any of your texts for a while just so you know. It's all F'ed up and I don't think I can take it anymore. No matter how crazy I am, and everything I've done to want to steal her phone, look up her texting, confront her boyfriend, there is no way she can put the blame on me and that's what keeps happening.


Tell her her stuff is in the front yard, she wasn't coming home any way, she just had not figured out the excuse yet. Coming home that late isn't any better than not coming home. A wife going out like she is isn't interested in your feelings or your marriage. In other words, you are married and she is not.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> We've honestly had sex this past week on 2 different nights. First time in a really long time that's happened to be honest. And in all honestly, it was really good sex, hard to explain but it felt like it was way more than just having sex, which is what really gave me hope. I think I walked away from the bar feeling good because of what he he had said at the end, but the more I thought about it, the more I wondered if he would just say that because he really doesn't want anything more than what they have. That or my wife has made him think the only way they keep going is if it stays a secret. If he really was an honest guy and my wife is just the absolute worst liar in the world, I still think he would have just been honest from the start and admitted to texting and her being at his house. He still never admitted to the truth about how she came over by herself, he never gave into that even though he did finally say after my wife's girlfriend left she stayed. But if that was the truth my wife never would have lied and said she went by herself as that sounds so much worse, so I know he was just too afraid to admit it in case I was just bluffing or something. I've talked to my wife in the past hour through texting and she is upset and now isn't sure she is even coming home. Of course now I just wonder if that means she is going to talk to him tonight and feels the need to apologize. The last text I got said I'm not answering any of your texts for a while just so you know. It's all F'ed up and I don't think I can take it anymore. No matter how crazy I am, and everything I've done to want to steal her phone, look up her texting, confront her boyfriend, there is no way she can put the blame on me and that's what keeps happening.


They are both liars. Stop trying to analyze why they would lie - accept that everything out of her mouth (and his) is a lie.

So now she is so upset she doubts that she will come home. Do you want to guess where she will spend the night? At his pad. 

When are you going to wake up?

:banghead:


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:
with chap's suggestion. You know this is what would happen if the roles were reversed. You KNOW it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

She blames you b/c you have no solid proof to back your stance or validate your position.

Once you have a smoking gun her tune will change.

Or

Once you have her served D-papers her tune will change....what sucks is with out proof she wil make you out to be a controlling H that won't let her have friends and will divorce her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She has already used the controlling card on you and you folded like a cheap tent. 

You tell her, you will muster the courage sooner or later, that she is free to do anything she wants but you are also just as free to divorce her and find an honest, loving, wife. Tell her she can go be free and be the town bicycle as long as the lowlifes she hangs out with want her.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

chapparal said:


> She has already used the controlling card on you and you folded like a cheap tent.
> 
> You tell her, you will muster the courage sooner or later, that she is free to do anything she wants but you are also just as free to divorce her and find an honest, loving, wife. Tell her she can go be free and be the town bicycle as long as the lowlifes she hangs out with want her.


:iagree:

We all know why she will not be answering your text tonight. She will be too busy with OM to bother with her doormat husband who will be waiting at home no matter what she does to disrespect and betray him.

Divorce her. Enough is enough. Honestly, even without an affair, her behavior is enough grounds for any self respecting man to divorce her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10.Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11.Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

TRy said:


> You are in effect saying that unless he has proof of her having sex with the other man (OM) her actions to date are acceptable and should be allowed to continue. They are not. Her current actions are out of line for a married woman and are reason to take action in and of themselves. Waiting for proof of cheating is also waiting until it is too late to save the marriage. What if he would like to try to save his marraige before she crosses the line of no return and not after? The fact that he has no proof of her having sex with the OM may mean that she has not done it yet. If she has not, she is certainly heading there, and the sooner he takes action to stop it the better.
> 
> Why do so many posters seem to want to have after the fact proof that their marraige is over before taking action, when taking action and stopping inappropriate behavior early is the only way to have a chance at saving a marraige?


I agree that her actions are way out of line and most men would not stand for it. I was just trying to get him to realize that confronting OM or her without proof of an affair is a waste of time and will change nothing. It seems he is going to be her doormat until he has some kind of proof and kept saying "should I confront her", "should I confront him". I was just trying to make him understand that it was pointless to confront without some solid evidence.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

HelpMe,

You are not listening to anyone's advice very well so I will keep it simple for you.

God gave men balls for a reason. How about using yours???

Your wife is playing games with you, disrespecting your marriage and running around not only on you but her family.

Send her a text tonight that you have packed her a bag with her clothes and left it outside for her.

Let her know when she is ready to act like a wife and mother and she can stop lying her butt off to your face she can come home.

Tell her you are giving her a limited time and if she cannot grow up you will mail her the divorce papers.

Why would you tolerate this nonsense.

Grow up and grow a pair!!

HM64


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> While a lot of these messages were coming out for me not to go confront the guy, I was already on my way...


I think the K.I.S.S. principle tells us that the best strategy for you personally is simply to go to an attorney and get the divorce wheels turning. Don't stop until you're single.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Dude, I would bet a couple of grand that she is cheating and lying. She already told the guy not to tell you anything but it looks like they haven't discussed the specifics. Don't fall for it. Here is what you do.

When she comes tomorrow, take her cell and hide it. Tell her that you are going to get the data recovered from it through a software program. She can come clean in the mean time.

Call a Verizon representative and talk to them on how to get back the messages. 

Login to her facebook and retrieve all her messages she sent as zip(Even deleted ones I think)

Google her model phone and see if you can find any software that can retrieve the messages from that phone model.


You need to act fast. Don't even give her a chance. Your wife's story followed the cheater's script to the T.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

yeah, I think you are all right. I did tell her if she didn't come home right away that we were done. That was an hour and a half ago, and I agree, I know where she is going tonight. Even if she does come home I know she's going to that bar to see him. A part of me wants to go and wait in the parking lot to see when she goes there, and another part of me has realized that wont' change anything other than allow me to know I left a woman who was already cheating on me. I don't think I need the proof anymore. And I know an earlier response said the hardest part wasn't that she was having sex, but knowing she loved the other guy. I agree, I honestly think the sex part is hard enough and not sure if I'd leave her over it or not, but knowing she doesn't care one bit about stopping and being in our family even within a week of me finding everything out. It just proves how much she needs him and this new lifestyle she has. I wish her well when she asks her new guy that will laugh in her face when she asks him if she and her 2 kids could move in with him. I'm going to step up and pack her bags tonight, and this is my house and my family now. Thanks to everyone for the honesty no matter how brutal it sounded, I always thought it would be so easy to leave someone who cheated on me, but turns out its so much harder than it should be.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

H,

if you have any close friends ask them to visit that bar and take pictures of her.

Make sure to change the locks as well.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> yeah, I think you are all right. I did tell her if she didn't come home right away that we were done. That was an hour and a half ago, and I agree, I know where she is going tonight. Even if she does come home I know she's going to that bar to see him. A part of me wants to go and wait in the parking lot to see when she goes there, and another part of me has realized that wont' change anything other than allow me to know I left a woman who was already cheating on me. I don't think I need the proof anymore. And I know an earlier response said the hardest part wasn't that she was having sex, but knowing she loved the other guy. I agree, I honestly think the sex part is hard enough and not sure if I'd leave her over it or not, but knowing she doesn't care one bit about stopping and being in our family even within a week of me finding everything out. It just proves how much she needs him and this new lifestyle she has. I wish her well when she asks her new guy that will laugh in her face when she asks him if she and her 2 kids could move in with him. I'm going to step up and pack her bags tonight, and this is my house and my family now. Thanks to everyone for the honesty no matter how brutal it sounded, I always thought it would be so easy to leave someone who cheated on me, but turns out its so much harder than it should be.


Not just go to the bar to see him. See will be spending the night with him.

Congrats on locating your balls. Hold on to them.

If you own the house together you cannot legally lock her out - so be careful there. If her name is on the deed or the mortgage, talk to a lawyer first. But there is nothing that says you cannot pack her stuff and put it outside the door.

And yes it is hard to realize that the person you spent the last 7 years loving and building a life with is ready to toss all that in the trash for some a-hole.

One question though - you said "her kids" above. Are they your children or her from another relationship?

Stay strong and move forward to make a better life for yourself and the kids.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

No, they are our kids. I just know she will try to keep them as well, but trust me I will fight for our kids until the very end. They are my entire world and always will be.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Put the kids in the car, drive to the bar and walk in and tell her that you and the kids want her to come home, in a loud voice for everyone to hear, including the bartender.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I wouldn't expect anything less from a father with the welfare of his kids in mind.

In most states custody goes 50/50 unless some agreement is reached or one spouse can be proven to be a danger to the children.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> I wouldn't expect anything less from a father with the welfare of his kids in mind.
> 
> In most states custody goes 50/50 unless some agreement is reached or one spouse can be proven to be a danger to the children.


He mentioned she works at a daycare. She might be more favorable in front of a judge, for a higher percentage. That is of course from what info was given.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> If you own the house together you cannot legally lock her out - so be careful there. If her name is on the deed or the mortgage, talk to a lawyer first. But there is nothing that says you cannot pack her stuff and put it outside the door.


He's an owner, he can change the locks. He may be forced by the law to let her in the house, but that's another issue. In any case, it's to make a point.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> He's an owner, he can change the locks. He may be forced by the law to let her in the house, but that's another issue. In any case, it's to make a point.


Yeah - you're right. Maybe I should have said "kick her out".

He can always say the locks were old and he just had not had a chance to give her a key since she is never home.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Just to valadate your stance in this matter, it is very rare that being nice ever works out. I think in a small way you have been acommidating and reasonable.....BUT YET IT CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!


The step you take from here on out have nothing to do with proof of cheating or what ever, it about *you* taking a stand that this is not the marriage you want.

You can not control her and she is more then welcome to have a marriage with this kind of behavior, but for you it does not cut it and and will not tolorate it any more.....that you do have control over and it will be up to her to make the choice on what she see's as a healthy marriage.

A health marrige is not this....at least for you. Again its her choice to do what she wants and in what she believes is a healthy marrage, just like you can do what you want in finding someone that share the same value.

After all this and what you just posted, its no longer about her behavior it is now what you will tolorate as a man that just wants a healthy marriage with a women that share that same value.

It realy is the bottom line, what she does from here on out is up to her and what *she* wants out of *her* marriage. 

You my brother have made a stand not for her but for you and yours.

Its not what knocks us down that matters, its how we get back up that counts.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

help_me_2001 said:


> yeah, I think you are all right. I did tell her if she didn't come home right away that we were done. That was an hour and a half ago, and I agree, I know where she is going tonight. Even if she does come home I know she's going to that bar to see him. A part of me wants to go and wait in the parking lot to see when she goes there, and another part of me has realized that wont' change anything other than allow me to know I left a woman who was already cheating on me. I don't think I need the proof anymore. And I know an earlier response said the hardest part wasn't that she was having sex, but knowing she loved the other guy. I agree, I honestly think the sex part is hard enough and not sure if I'd leave her over it or not, but knowing she doesn't care one bit about stopping and being in our family even within a week of me finding everything out. It just proves how much she needs him and this new lifestyle she has. I wish her well when she asks her new guy that will laugh in her face when she asks him if she and her 2 kids could move in with him. I'm going to step up and pack her bags tonight, and this is my house and my family now. Thanks to everyone for the honesty no matter how brutal it sounded, I always thought it would be so easy to leave someone who cheated on me, but turns out its so much harder than it should be.


Stand tall guy.Sorry this happened to you.


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## help_me_2001 (Apr 28, 2012)

So I won't get into the details of what I did in the case that my wife were ever to find this forum, but I finally got my proof tonight that she went and saw the guy even after everything that happened today...I texted her at 4am and said her suitcase is packed outside, all the doors are locked, and the garage is disabled, you are not welcome at my house anymore. I don't think she actually has keys, we just use the garage. For the first time, she sounded desparate and realized how bad this is going to suck for her and continued to text even after I said I have to go as I have 2 kids down the hall that are counting on me in a couple of hours. She still claims they haven't had sex, as if holding on to that last little bit of information makes all the difference. Obviously she has, but even worse, the fact that tonight still just HAD to happen proves how this marriage was never going to work. She is begging to stay at the house until she finds a place to live to which I replied, "you need to ask your guy if you can have half of his bed, our credit cards are now cancelled and we will have 2 checking accounts come Monday. Your life is about to get real, and I don't think you are prepared for it, but I did everything I could to prevent tonight from happening and you still left our family." I do appreciate everyones comments to help me see the light, and I finally feel better, it's nice to get closure even when its the worst closure you could have ever imagined. Without this forum, I don't think I would have had "the balls" to do what I did tonight. Thank you


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

H,

How did you found out? You can always edit your post later on.

Make sure to keep an eye on the bank account so she won't empty it.

Doesn't matter but.if she stops by somehow get her panties just to prove it to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Help
It sucks being the adult but you did the right thing.

She needs to feel consequences for her actions.

Your wife is messed up. I am glad you have your priorities straight.

She does not deserve you, the kids or the marriage with behavior like that.

Stay strong my man. Life will get better as long as you make it happen.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*"you need to ask your guy if you can have half of his bed, our credit cards are now cancelled and we will have 2 checking accounts come Monday. Your life is about to get real, and I don't think you are prepared for it, but I did everything I could to prevent tonight from happening and you still left our family."*

Well done. I think you finally have her attention.

I would suggest you "go dark" on her for the rest of the day.

Ignore all her attempts to contact you.

Expose her affair to both of your families today. Make this your first priority. Just a short call to each of your and her parents and siblings to tell them that she is having an affair, that you gave her a choice to choose you or the affair partner, and that she chose the affair partner. Tell them who the affair partner is but do not give them the gory details. Do not tell your wife you are doing this. Expose the other man to his boss. This may or may not do any good, but let the boss know that his employee is sleeping with married women with young children that he is meeting on the job. You can hint that he has some legal exposure for allowing this to continue via alienation of affection, whether or not this is true might not matter as just the thought of such a thing may be enough for him to reprimand the other man. If you know the other man's family, expose to them as well.

Next, find a lawyer. Call first thing tomorrow and make an appointment to begin the divorce process ASAP. You can always stop the process if you decide to reconcile. Find out your options, your rights, and how you should proceed in the short term.

Before your appointment, separate finances, cancel joint credit cards, etc.

Purchase a voice-activated recorder. This is very important. Your wife sounds very volatile. She also sounds very selfish and spoiled. There is no telling what she will do. Use the voice-activated recorder to record all your conversations with her. This will protect you from any false accusations from her.

At this point, your wife may be willing to do whatever you want to reconcile. If you go this route, you should tell her her you are proceeding with the divorce and will stop the process if she complies with your requirements for reconciliation. At a minimum, I suggest the following: Tell her you need complete honesty - she writes down for you a timeline of the affair and comes clean with all details you ask for. No contact - she agrees to no contact with the other man, directly or indirectly, including looking at his Facebook profile and she handwrites to him a no contact letter stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior and how terrible she feels for having risked her marriage and family, which mean more than anything in the world to her, and that if he ever attempts to contact her again, she will file harrassment charges against him. Tell her if he tries to contact her again, she must not respond and must tell you immediately. Complete transparency - she gives you complete access to all communication devices and accounts, she doesn't delete anything going forward, she lets you know her whereabouts 24/7, no more going out with anyone who is not a friend of your marriage.

Tell your wife that you know you have been a doormat for a very long time. Your wife was walking all over you. I am shocked that you stood up for yourself the way you did. Your wife will be shocked. Your wife is used to manipulating you into allowing her to behave in inappropriate ways. She is very selfish and spoiled. She feels entitled to do what she wants while you stand by and wait for her, ready to take her back. This mindset will not change overnight. She will snap out of it temporarily, but revert back to it. She may agree to your conditions for reconciliation but then immediately "test" them. Let your wife know that the days of you being a doormat are over.

Cheaters lie. Once caught, they lie even more than before caught. Assume going forward that all your wife's words are lies. Believe only her actions.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Will_Kane said:


> *"you need to ask your guy if you can have half of his bed, our credit cards are now cancelled and we will have 2 checking accounts come Monday. Your life is about to get real, and I don't think you are prepared for it, but I did everything I could to prevent tonight from happening and you still left our family."*
> 
> Well done. I think you finally have her attention.
> 
> ...


Solid advice, expose her affair, as for the OM expose far and wide , don't mess around he is a predator on your marriage so make sure his family , friends , coworkers and any one else you think will effect his life are told . Shatter their lie and show them up for who they are .



_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

More information in the thread below:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Be ready for some heavy begging, grovelling and worse, retaliation. Have someone with you when she comes to meet you. She might well as try to provoke you. And don't even doubt it, she had sex with him.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Nw expose to friends and family that she is cheating with a loser bartender and you gave her the boot. Do it fast before she tries to spin more lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

help_me_2001 said:


> No, they are our kids. I just know she will try to keep them as well, but trust me I will fight for our kids until the very end. They are my entire world and always will be.


Just make sure you don't use them against her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good job standing up for yourself and your kids. Do everything said by the previous posters. File for D, and if she chooses to reconcile then let it hover over her head like a big hammer. 

And do not let her back in that house the first time she comes back groveling and crying. Remember she has become a master manipulator and is playing you even now. She needs to either move in with OM or slum it on a friend's couch for a couple of weeks, but do not let her back home until she has done some heavy work to earn the right to do so.

Or until she gets smart and has the cops force you to let her in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> And do not let her back in that house the first time she comes back groveling and crying. Remember she has become a master manipulator and is playing you even now. . . do not let her back home until she has done some heavy work to earn the right to do so.


This.

You only have so many ways of popping her bubble and forcing her to acknowledge reality. 

You have to make your choices carefully and without emotion.

It is no different than dealing with children. You don't want to be the one with the whining tantrum throwing toddler, where you manage to get all the way through the checkout line without buying candy, and then you stop at the gumball machine on the way out the door.

She has to work for the marriage now. She cast it aside like a dirty rag, like a used [fill in the blank]. She has to demonstrate that she fully comprehends what she has done, not just cry because she got caught with her pants down.

ACTIONS, NOT WORDS.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry bro, it aint over.
Now that the reality thet you are no longer tolorating her crap, you will get the begging and the pleading. If I can be so bold as to repeat the other post......

ACTIONS, NOT WORDS.


Her consequences the next few months will hopefully clear her fog so that she can at least be a decent mom.

So file, and get the cusdoty in order, it important that there is some sort of moral clause set up by your lawyer that will prevent her current life style indangering the kids.

Hopefull WW sees the bottom of the barrel and turns her current behavior around for the sake of the kids, often and saddly enough WW's sink them selves deeper into there self destruction.

You next step is all about the kids and from here on out its all about NC the OM &TC (toxic friends) and behavior that fits a healthy mother. So stay focused and there is a degree of behavioral treats that she needs to exhibit before you can reconize a change that will dictate the course of you current path.

In short don't get soft, but identify what you want from her and stick to this point. Also identify a time line and stick to it. MAKE A PLAN AND WORK THE PLAN. 

You stay the course it is now up to her to change this course you have set for your self. Becarefull she'll try to trick you! Her enrollment to IC is a good step but only if it comes from her, if she agrees to NC then validate it.

Sorry for the spelling and the long novel, it just hits so close to home and its something I should have done 13 years ago, instead of slapping my fWW around and letting her continue with her 2nd life style.

You did good, I wish I had this site so many years ago.

Now your research and investigation is all about if WW can be trusted with the kids....validating a change that tells you what your next step is with regards to the kids. Its not over...sorry.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Even if there was no sex, the fact that she has been in an intense EA that she valued more than her marriage to you, clearly shows that *she does not care about you* despite efforts on your part to give her a chance to recommit to the marriage.

You may love the woman with all your heart but if there is no trust or respect, there is no marriage just a legal piece of paper.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you been given this book list yet

Married Men Sex Life +blog

Love Busters

His Needs Her Needs

Five Love Languages

You need to read all of these if you continue your relationship with your wife or any other woman. Rarely does a satisfied woman wander but it does happen..........rarely.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Have you been given this book list yet
> 
> Married Men Sex Life +blog
> 
> ...


This is the carrot, the reason why she should come back to the marriage.

But the carrot is only offered on certain conditions that MUST be met:

full transparency (all passwords, accounts, phones, computers open to you)

no contact with the OM, starting with a handwritten letter of no contact that you deliver certified mail

I strongly recommend that you tell someone she respects, her parents for example, what has happened, not the details, just explain that she has cheated on you--they are your ally in holding her accountable

---------------

I will add one caveat to chap's point about a satisfied woman (btw, I am a woman). I suppose it's true for mentally healthy, normal average women. 

But there are some women who are tremendously needy. They roam the world seeking validation of their sexual attractiveness, and because they can never get ENOUGH validation from one person, they continue to seek it with multiple men. If a woman is like this, it's because she has serious self-esteem issues and needs serious counseling. There's no guarantee that she will be "fixed" or that she'll believe that she's loveable if she's just with one man. In that case, no amount of working on yourself, or the marriage, will help her. 

That's why good counseling is important. The trouble is, some counselors believe that the affair is caused by the marraige. A bad marriage can open up vulnerability to an affair, but it is NEVER the cause of the supremely selfish choice to cheat. Other counselors just ask if the affair is over, and then ask the spouses to discuss the problems in their marriage. But they don't hold the cheating spouse accountable for the gaping wound in the loyal spouse's heart. So the key is to find a counselor trained in infidelity.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

morituri- you brought some ggod point I would like to add. Just like in shamwows case, the already fragile marriage is once again stepped on by the wayward.

Its one thing to be called out as a wayward and to do the work at that moment. But it is totaly different when called out as the way ward and still the waywards dismisses the marriage and takes that final step of I was caught and I will continue. 

This happened with sean and his WW when he confronted at the hotel with the kids and his WW choose the OM even with the kids in the parking lot.

Since I have no experience with this kind of slap in the face I get side ways. In my case it was a drop to the floor...drop OM... kill my self ...I'll do anything kind of moment for my fWW. 

In this case its a degree of disrespect that tells OP that "ya you know or are on to me but I will do "it" again".

M- 
I see your point, as bad as I want to believe and stand by a pro marriage view... I have become optimistic after 3,000 post and years in this community that there is a point were the wayward has just left the marriage, and the betrayed should just let the wayward go.

I have seen this in several threads and it is just how some spouse are versus how some spouses want to be. The ones that want, change and stop, the ones that continue to betray even after a monumental confrontation just might not be worth the effort.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

the_guy,

Everybody knows that I am of the "an affair is a deal breaker" camp but nevertheless I respect the fact that there are folks who are of the "an affair is not a deal breaker" camp. I also believe that for this camp, if respect from a wayward spouse to his/her betrayed spouse does not show up immediately upon discovery of his/her affair, that the odds of saving the marriage are slim to none. When that happens, the only options available to a betrayed are: 1) Stay in limbo hoping things will get better or 2) Detonate the nuclear option, divorce to protect him/herself emotionally, physically and financially. 

My concern is that too many of us are pushing option 2) with a zeal even when the betrayed and wayward want to try to recover. This is not good for we may end up becoming unwitting saboteurs of their attempts to recover. I am also concerned that we are not pushing enough IC for betrayed spouses with a professional therapist with experience in helping victims of infidelity and PTSD. No matter what happens to the marriage, a betrayed has to recover or face a future with anger and bitterness poisoning their lives and the lives of their loved ones.

The OP needs to emotionally detach via the *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559* and *The 180 degree rules* in order to move on with his life, with or without his wife.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

morituri said:


> My concern is that too many of us are pushing option 2) with a zeal even when the betrayed and wayward want to try to recover. This is not good for we may end up becoming unwitting saboteurs of their attempts to recover. I am also concerned that we are not pushing enough IC for betrayed spouses with a professional therapist with experience in helping victims of infidelity and PTSD. No matter what happens to the marriage, a betrayed has to recover or face a future with anger and bitterness poisoning their lives and the lives of their loved ones.
> 
> The OP needs to emotionally detach via the *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559* and *The 180 degree rules* in order to move on with his life, with or without his wife.


Morituri, I hear you, but I also think that BS so often need a real dose of wake up medicine so that they don't put themselves through hope and dream mode waiting to WS that have truly left the marriage.

I agree that if a WS doesn't feel shocked at being found out, there isn't a lot of hope. They are just too entrench is the affair. How any stories have played out here over the long haul where sometimes for years the BS wastes their life waiting for the WS to stop cheating and return, yet the dont. They have no motivation to stop.

Standing up to the WS and refusing to be the third person in a relationship doesn't always end the affair, but it does leave. The BS in a much healthier place and not wasting away their life waiting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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