# I Think I am Nearing the End



## wanting more (Oct 10, 2018)

I have a very tough situation. I stopped asking my wife for sex 20 years ago - for I already knew the answer was NO. It really has not changed - we have been together for 35 years - married for 34. Basically - she shows ZERO Love Language to me - and I mean NOTHING. I should mention that I have prostate issues, and once every 10-11 days, she seems to allow sex - but it is mostly "get it out of the way and done - quickly..." I have gone out of my way to cook dinner, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the laundry, help her with her job, make sure her car is maintained, etc.... Yet from her there is NOTHING. but demands and criticism... We are now empty nesters and I am seeing nothing but a difficult life for the next however many years.... I am at a loss, except for being taken as a CHUMP in all of this. Am I doing things very wrong here? Is there any advice to salvage anything?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

wanting more said:


> Am I doing things very wrong here?


Yes.



wanting more said:


> Is there any advice to salvage anything?


This will depend on whether your wife actually wants to remain married to you.

Check out @dadstartingover book “The Dead Bedroom Fix”. It will give you some jumping off points for what your path might look like if you try to fix it. It is possible but not without your wife participating in trying to remain together.

The other fix is also good (leaving).


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Leave and enjoy life


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

wanting more said:


> I have a very tough situation. I stopped asking my wife for sex 20 years ago - for I already knew the answer was NO. It really has not changed - we have been together for 35 years - married for 34. Basically - she shows ZERO Love Language to me - and I mean NOTHING. I should mention that I have prostate issues, and once every 10-11 days, she seems to allow sex - but it is mostly "get it out of the way and done - quickly..." *I have gone out of my way to cook dinner, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the laundry, help her with her job, make sure her car is maintained,* etc.... Yet from her there is NOTHING. but demands and criticism... We are now empty nesters and *I am seeing nothing but a difficult life* for the next however many years.... I am at a loss, except for being taken as a CHUMP in all of this. Am I doing things very wrong here? Is there any advice to salvage anything?


I will just ask, if you had spent those 34 years alone would you be any more miserable? If you had been alone for the last 20 that would have been 20 fewer years being rejected. 

Why are you doing all of this stuff in bold?? None of these arouse a woman's sexual interest in a man. To switch it around, would her cooking and cleaning and doing laundry make YOU want to jump her bones? *Especially* if you are doing all of these things to get laid. That is called a covert contract, and all it does is P!ss a spouse off. It will *NOT* get you laid.

I think your perception of what is left of your life is spot on. If you keep doing what you have been doing, you will get more of what you have been receiving. How about just start doing what YOU want to do? If you want to go fishing or hunting or golfing or traveling, just do it. STOP doing all of the household BS. You have been doing what you thought SHE wanted for the last 34 years and what has been the result?

Have no illusion that anything you can do will change her one bit. You can't change another person. So decide that you are going to enjoy yourself for whatever is left of life, and to H3ll with what she wants. Actually the change has a tiny chance of changing the dynamic. 

You can salvage yourself. You can salvage what is left of life. Life is precious and you have already wasted way too much of it in a dysfunctional marriage.

You mentioned Prostate problems. What specifically do you mean? Cancer?


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## teutonic_metal (12 mo ago)

I am sorry you are going through this. If what you say is true, she sounds like a total jerk and absorbed with herself. Then again, she could have some severe mental health going on. I'm not trying to put ideas in your head just saying. Have you tried marital therapy? Talking to one that specializes in sexual issues. Also, I tried something called Marriage Fitness with Mort Fertel - Official Web Site - Home Page. It didn't help me because my wife refused, lied about wanting therapy, and started the divorce process. However, this guy has some good points to save a marriage. I feel for you man. Good luck!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

some comments

sex every 10 days is still better than many on here see.

prostate problems? what does that mean? ED? She is likely one of those women that only like PIV sex, and NOTHING else will do....so that is kind of a brick wall. If not for that, there is a ton of kinky stuff and sex without needing a penis to explore.

like someone else said, why are you doing all that housework for her, and expecting it to matter to her. it probably has the opposite effect of turning her off to you. Man up, do your share around the house, but not an iota more. get her lazy ass doing the dishes again.

if you truly want to make her moist, start being a bad boy again. go buy a motorcycle (do not ask her first). Or maybe an ATV and trailer. Go hunting with your buds. Tie one on at the local bar. ditch the frigin kitchen apron ****


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

wanting more said:


> I have a very tough situation. I stopped asking my wife for sex 20 years ago - for I already knew the answer was NO. It really has not changed - we have been together for 35 years - married for 34. Basically - she shows ZERO Love Language to me - and I mean NOTHING. I should mention that I have prostate issues, and once every 10-11 days, she seems to allow sex - but it is mostly "get it out of the way and done - quickly..." I have gone out of my way to cook dinner, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the laundry, help her with her job, make sure her car is maintained, etc.... Yet from her there is NOTHING. but demands and criticism... We are now empty nesters and I am seeing nothing but a difficult life for the next however many years.... I am at a loss, except for being taken as a CHUMP in all of this. Am I doing things very wrong here? Is there any advice to salvage anything?


Help her with her job? Does she work full time? Do you ?

1. You stopped asking for sex 20 years ago and now are miserable you don't get sex. If you want sex you should be showing you want sex by initiating. If you have been married for 34 years then you are in an age range where women don't expect to be the initiators.

2. What is her love language? The work around the house can work if her love language is acts of service but not if it is gifts or words of affirmation.

3. If she has a job and you have a job why would you do your share around the house? That isn't special that is what adults do.

4. What is prostrate problems? Does this mean you can't get it up frequently? You can orgasm. Because without good communication this can cause problems. 

5. Read up and look at responsive desire. I love sex but if my motor isn't running i don't think about it at all. Do you understand the mechanism of how sex actually works for you both? What gets her motor running? What does she think if your motor isn't working? Does she enjoy being the one to initiate..... Or whatever in the hell she allows sex every 10 days... I mean how does this allow happen if you aren't initiating and she isn't interested? And I hope you aren't literally asking for sex. I hope you are spending the day warming her up getting her thinking about it and them moving in for the lovey stuff at an appropriate time.

You don't have to be chump. How do you two spend a normal day? What is she being critical of? How have you two talked about this problem? I"m not even talking about the sex as it seems you've avoided that. But the problem of living a sad little life.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> 1. You stopped asking for sex 20 years ago and now are miserable you don't get sex. If you want sex you should be showing you want sex by initiating.


How many times are you going to get rejected before you stop? This is common behavior.



wanting more said:


> I stopped asking my wife for sex 20 years ago - for I already knew the answer was NO.


He stopped because she says NO every time.

It could be because his initiation sucks, it could be because he is unattractive to her either physically or because of his behavior, or she could just not even like him. Who knows?

He should look at the standard references like DSO’s book or Married Man’s Sex Life Primer and see if any of the things in the book describe him and the relationship he has with his wife. If they do that gives him things he can try.

Or he could just leave.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> How many times are you going to get rejected before you stop? This is common behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree he could just leave. Yes she may not like him anymore. But you know if you stop initiating your stop getting sex.

It would have been best if he tackled this 20 years ago.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In OPs only other post replying on another thread, he mentioned losing his job 19 years ago, and his wife going to work. She resented this every since. There has been a role reversal, him doing the housework and she earning the income. She resents and doesnt respect him. Both of them are miserable. Maybe they “stayed for the kids” who are now grown. Seems both would be happiest going their separate ways.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> In OPs only other post replying on another thread, he mentioned losing his job 19 years ago, and his wife going to work. She resented this every since. There has been a role reversal, him doing the housework and she earning the income. She resents and doesnt respect him. Both of them are miserable. Maybe they “stayed for the kids” who are now grown. Seems both would be happiest going their separate ways.


Ok so he's a stay at home and think's some how him doing the dishes is a favor to her and that she should drop her panties.

He needs to read up on what stay at home means. Cause it is way more work than going to work.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

What's that term when a boxer quits boxing? Isn't "he hangup the gloves" well, by inference we can say that on or about 20 years ago you hangup your balls to the Missy.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> I will just ask, if you had spent those 34 years alone would you be any more miserable? If you had been alone for the last 20 that would have been 20 fewer years being rejected.
> 
> Why are you doing all of this stuff in bold?? None of these arouse a woman's sexual interest in a man. To switch it around, would her cooking and cleaning and doing laundry make YOU want to jump her bones? *Especially* if you are doing all of these things to get laid. That is called a covert contract, and all it does is P!ss a spouse off. It will *NOT* get you laid.
> 
> ...


So you read his last thread and you know that he's a stay at home spouse (with no kids at home) and you advise him to stop doing what is his job the household?

I bet the complaining is he isn't pulling his weight and hasn't been for 20 years. She was resentful that he's not employed but he hasn't sought a job in 20 years? I'm not in my marriage for the money but this would certainly make me resentful especially if I had to cook dinner, do the kids homework, laundry and such because my stay at home couldn't be bothered.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok so he's a stay at home and think's some how him doing the dishes is a favor to her and that she should drop her panties.


Well, in my haste, I didn't check OP for previous posts. Now to correct my previous post"



Rob_1 said:


> What's that term when a boxer quits boxing? Isn't "he hangup the gloves" well, by inference we can say that on or about 20 years ago you hangup your balls to the Missy.


I would say that he just hangup his balls, period. No wonder why the wife wants nothing to do with him sexually. She must feel repulsed by such a male specimen that she's married to.



Anastasia6 said:


> Ok so he's a stay at home and think's some how him doing the dishes is a favor to her and that she should drop her panties.
> 
> He needs to read up on what stay at home means. Cause it is way more work than going to work.


I didn't read his other post (or I can'tremember if I did), and I don’t know if you did, but where do you gather that he doing the dishes was a favor, and that she should drop her panties?
Why couldn't it just be the typical female resentment and eventual lost of respect to him never going back to work again? As far as decades and decades of my personal experience if there's one thing I certainly know as a fact is that for most females regardless of what they might say now after years of hubby not working, Mr. Alpha man at work or somewhere else, eventually becomes the man, while the pathetic stay at home dad (regardless of how good a stay at home he is) is now the pathetic beta hubby, to whom her scorn is directed to?


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

wanting more said:


> I have gone out of my way to cook dinner, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the laundry, help her with her job, make sure her car is maintained, etc.... Yet from her there is NOTHING. but demands and criticism...


Then stop doing these things. If she is not going to act like a loving wife, why should you bust your ass to act like a loving husband? Only clean up after yourself and stop being her servant. Demand marriage counseling. If she refuses, you have your final answer: she just doesn't give a damn about you or the marriage.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> In OPs only other post replying on another thread, he mentioned losing his job 19 years ago, and his wife going to work. She resented this every since. There has been a role reversal, him doing the housework and she earning the income. She resents and doesnt respect him. Both of them are miserable. Maybe they “stayed for the kids” who are now grown. Seems both would be happiest going their separate ways.



Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. Okay now. Mystery solved.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow, some of these post are harsh. Was the OP a SAHD? I doubt that is still the case if they’re empty nesters. If he’s a SAHH, then I could understand why she’d be completely turned off. It’s not in a woman’s dna to support a man long term. If thing go south for his job, most loving wives will be willing to hold it down for a season or 2 but if it drags out too long, the resentment comes out real quick. 

So @wanting more what is your current home situation in terms of the finances. Are you the sole provider or does she work too. If she works, is it full time and is she bringing home similar money? The rundown if things that you do, sounds like a list of things that a sole provider would be upset to be doing all the time but if she’s out there working too, then you have to do your share without you thinking you’re doing her a favor. How’s your marriage otherwise? Do you have occasional date nights, do you surprise her with a gift once in while. I’m not talking about the usual bday, valentines, anniversary, Christmas. Do you share some activities or have some shows you watch together? How is your appearance? Are you taking care of you hair, beard, hygiene, and health? You can’t expect your wife to be wanting to sex you up if you’re not making an effort to be attractive.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ArthurGPym said:


> Then stop doing these things. If she is not going to act like a loving wife, why should you bust your ass to act like a loving husband? Only clean up after yourself and stop being her servant. Demand marriage counseling. If she refuses, you have your final answer: she just doesn't give a damn about you or the marriage.


Maybe cause she pays the bills?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Oops I went off RUS post. He does have a job. 

so if you both work and you don’t get. Along get out.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

wanting more said:


> I have a very tough situation. I stopped asking my wife for sex 20 years ago - for I already knew the answer was NO. It really has not changed - we have been together for 35 years - married for 34. Basically - she shows ZERO Love Language to me - and I mean NOTHING. I should mention that I have prostate issues, and once every 10-11 days, she seems to allow sex - but it is mostly "get it out of the way and done - quickly..." I have gone out of my way to cook dinner, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the laundry, help her with her job, make sure her car is maintained, etc.... Yet from her there is NOTHING. but demands and criticism... We are now empty nesters and I am seeing nothing but a difficult life for the next however many years.... I am at a loss, except for being taken as a CHUMP in all of this. Am I doing things very wrong here? Is there any advice to salvage anything?


What exactly are you saving? So hearing about your other post I suggest you get a job. At this point though after 34 years it's doubtful she will change. I also don't advocate blackmailing your spouse into sex.

It's your life, but it doesn't sound like a great one. As you said the kids are raised, maybe it's time to see what other options you might have.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

wanting more said:


> I have a very tough situation. I stopped asking my wife for sex 20 years ago - for I already knew the answer was NO. It really has not changed - we have been together for 35 years - married for 34. Basically - she shows ZERO Love Language to me - and I mean NOTHING. I should mention that I have prostate issues, and once every 10-11 days, she seems to allow sex - but it is mostly "get it out of the way and done - quickly..." I have gone out of my way to cook dinner, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the laundry, help her with her job, make sure her car is maintained, etc.... Yet from her there is NOTHING. but demands and criticism... We are now empty nesters and I am seeing nothing but a difficult life for the next however many years.... I am at a loss, except for being taken as a CHUMP in all of this. Am I doing things very wrong here? Is there any advice to salvage anything?


.?????? Damn


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OP, after reading your other post, I can only suggest you leave this marriage, especially now that you are empty-nesters. What's the point? I could understand if she loved you and you had a good relationship, but you don't. If you have to beg for bad sex and she despises you/resents you, I'm not really sure what you are doing there. Go and find a woman who will love you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Maybe cause she pays the bills?


He does not have another post.

So, what you are saying is....

The person (male or female) who stays at home,, does not work, but takes care of the children and the household, should be resented, and cut off from sex?

Sounds kinda harsh.

I am aware of SAHD's and that dynamic.

And yes, he should have solved this 20 years ago.

Being passive in life is a detriment in so many ways.



_L-_


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jsmart said:


> Wow, some of these post are harsh. Was the OP a SAHD? I doubt that is still the case if they’re empty nesters. If he’s a SAHH, then I could understand why she’d be completely turned off. *It’s not in a woman’s dna to support a man long term. *If thing go south for his job, most loving wives will be willing to hold it down for a season or 2 but if it drags out too long, the resentment comes out real quick.


I believe he said he is doing some work, maybe part time, but his wife has been the bread-winner for 19 years. He mentioned helping her with her work besides doing the housework, so yes he has been a SAHH. Maybe he will chime in here and elaborate. The division of labor doesn't sound like it was a mutual decision, but one she was forced into and resents. Their dynamic hasn't been healthy in 2 decades, the kids are gone, just living their lives individually would be the happiest for both of them.

Regarding the bold, would only say that for the right man, some women will happily and enthusiastically support the man, sometimes in cooperation with other women. I think you get the drift of the profession am thinking of. The only thing the man provides is muscle for protection and enforcement of payment from the customers. The women love them. 

In primitive cultures the only "work" males do is hunting and fishing, f**kng and fighting. Women do *all* of the actual work. The man kills the game and drags it home, the women dress it, cook it, serve the man ( who eats first), then clean up the mess while the man takes a nap. I read somewhere once than the caveman's 'work' week was about 20 hours.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> He does not have another post.
> 
> So, what you are saying is....
> 
> ...


He posted a reply to another thread. Look up on his profile. It was an extensive post elaborating on what had happened in the last 19 years. I don't know how to link, but just go check his profile. He has made two posts in two years. This one which started a thread and one other


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> He posted a reply to another thread. Look up on his profile. It was an extensive post elaborating on what had happened in the last 19 years. I don't know how to link, but just go check his profile. He has made two posts in two years. This one which started a thread and one other


Aye, your are correct!

One post, and one _thread starter_ for a total count of two snippets.

Both are almost _word for word_ the same dire situation that he faces.

Our original poster is apparently _shy_, and is not carrying on a dialogue with the TAM team.

This makes sense.
He needs to express himself, and to stand up for himself.

If he divorces, he will still be in the same pickle with any new woman that he can snag.

Mr. @wanting more, please respond to our inquiries.

Come out of the shadows.

Else....you will be soon dismissed for lack of any dialogue.

To answer, go to the bottom of any one page and enter your response in the (*Write your reply*) box.



_Lilith-_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

wanting more said:


> Am I doing things very wrong here? Is there any advice to salvage anything?


So you have been passive aggressive for the past twenty years by deciding to stop communicating your needs to your wife. That is kind of similar to a homeless man that has become too proud to ever beg people again for liquor money. Yet he still gets himself a good shot of booze almost once a week somehow like clockwork. 

How would you help the homeless man? Do you just be compassionate and give him a shot of booze every so often? Or would you want to see him do something with his life and make an effort to develop his career?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I think at this stage of his life, being alone would be preferable to being with a woman, his wife or otherwise. He wont have child support and since his wife makes more money, likely no support either. At guessed age of 55-60, he can look forward to his drive dropping anyway over rest of his life. Heck he can hire sn escort every two weeks and have more fun than he had now.

Maybe we read in couple of years how things turn out


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> He does not have another post.
> 
> So, what you are saying is....
> 
> ...


Actually what I was saying is if a person doesn't work and doesn't do anything at home your spouse will resent you. Female or male. In his opening he said he does dishes and stuff. However I was reading Rus. He does have another post in another thread. 

I find nothing wrong with SAHD or SAHM but it is a job. And it involves work. Sex is an activity people participate in because there is love. Resentment often clouds love. If I didn't work and didn't do things around the house like cook and clean I would expect my husband to resent it.

However looking at the other thread it appears he does work. So in this cause his wife resents him and is withholding for some other reason. It is long term and systemic. He would be justified to leave a place that neither person seems happy. I still contend if you want sex not ever initiating is not a good way to get it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

That’s a bad situation for OP. If he really is a part time worker that’s mostly being financially supported by his wife, then this is not a situation that is going to turn on any woman. I feel bad for the guy because he really feels like his situation is unfair even though from the outside looking in, the wife is getting an equally bad deal. 

I wouldn’t be slightest bit surprised if she had a long term affair in the past. The complete emotional detachment is very telling. Is it all a disgust of having to financially carry the family all these years or is it from having attached herself to another man in the past or even still today?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jsmart said:


> That’s a bad situation for OP. If he really is a part time worker that’s mostly being financially supported by his wife, then this is not a situation that is going to turn on any woman. I feel bad for the guy because he really feels like his situation is unfair even though from the outside looking in, the wife is getting an equally bad deal.
> 
> I wouldn’t be slightest bit surprised if she had a long term affair in the past. The complete emotional detachment is very telling. Is it all a disgust of having to financially carry the family all these years or is it from having attached herself to another man in the past or even still today?


Maybe both. She cant escape because if she divorces, she might have to pay HIM spousal support. She is just as miserable as he is, but he is better positioned to leave without loss.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Better go get a job brother… the job market has never been hotter as far as I can tell. Housekeeping and all that isn’t good for a man as an occupation- soul killing really.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I doubt there are many good paying jobs for 55-60 year old who hasnt held a job in 19 years. At least I wouldnt hire him. He claimed he worked at something. Heck there are panhandlers who make enough to support themselves. And they dont need to listen to wife complaining 24x7.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Actually what I was saying is if a person doesn't work and doesn't do anything at home your spouse will resent you. Female or male. In his opening he said he does dishes and stuff. However I was reading Rus. He does have another post in another thread.
> 
> I find nothing wrong with SAHD or SAHM but it is a job. And it involves work. Sex is an activity people participate in because there is love. Resentment often clouds love. If I didn't work and didn't do things around the house like cook and clean I would expect my husband to resent it.
> 
> However looking at the other thread it appears he does work. So in this cause his wife resents him and is withholding for some other reason. It is long term and systemic. He would be justified to leave a place that neither person seems happy. I still contend if you want sex not ever initiating is not a good way to get it.


Yup, I agree with this, and from reading his other post, it does appear that he works.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ccpowerslave said:


> How many times are you going to get rejected before you stop? *This is common behavior*.
> 
> *He stopped because she says NO every time*.
> 
> *It could be because his initiation sucks*, it could be because he is unattractive to her either physically or because of his behavior, or she could just not even like him. Who knows?....


A few thoughts for the benefit of the OP. I mostly agree with what you have said but would like to explain why.

Rejection is a very common problem with couples. Sometimes what seems like rejection really isn't rejection or at least not in the way it is taken.

Sometimes you just need to teach your partner how to "reject" immediate sex in a way that you can handle. For example, let's say that a wife really is too tired, has a headache, or too much on her mind to relax enough to reach an orgasm, but really wants an orgasm, so she say not tonight. If she can be taught to say or she learns to say, "I really want to have sex with you, but if we both get some sleep, I promise you that in the morning, I will sexually rock your world and make you smile all day...." then he might not feel rejected and go to sleep hugging her in anticipation of the morning.

Now as to sucking at initiation. I have been there. My primary love language is touch. Neither my wife's primary or secondary love language is touch. When I want to tell my wife how much I love her, I will usually try to hug her or touch her. My secondary love language is words of affirmation or praise. When I want to tell her how much I admire her and am proud of her I will praise her. When we were in a sex starved marriage, we argued a lot and when we were in counseling we talked a lot. My wife often (when I tried to hug her to express my love for her) would say that get your hands off me, you are always pawing at my body to try to have sex with me. Other times when she did something and praised her, she would tell me to stop buttering her up just to get in her pants. In all those cases, I wasn't trying to initiate sex, but I just wanted to show my love for her.

My point is that she didn't know when I was trying to initiate sex and when I was just trying to express my emotional love. So by definition, by initiation needed to be "better." She could have helped with that or I could have better understood things. In either event my initiation of sex was lacking.

Again, I think your post raises some great points.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

wanting more said:


> I have a very tough situation. *I stopped asking my wife for sex 20 years ago - for I already knew the answer was NO*. It really has not changed - *we have been together for 35 years* - married for 34. Basically - s*he shows ZERO Love Language to me - and I mean NOTHING*. I should mention that I have prostate issues, and *once every 10-11 days, she seems to allow sex* - but it is mostly "get it out of the way and done - quickly..." I have gone out of my way to *cook dinner, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the laundry, help her with her job, make sure her car is maintained, etc.... Yet from her there is NOTHING. but demands and criticism*... We are *now empty nesters *and I am seeing nothing but a difficult life for the next however many years.... I am at a loss, except for being taken as a CHUMP in all of this. *Am I doing things very wrong here?* Is there *any advice to salvage anything*?


Been there done that, sort of. After about 38 years of marriage, my marriage drifted into a sex starved marriage, which was just after we became empty nesters. It got so bad, I decided things had to change. I started to read every relationship book I could get my hands on. One of the first was Chapman's 5 Languages of Love. So, I want to congratulate you in at least starting down the same path that helped rebuild my marriage. Last year we celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary and we have sex twice a week and I consider myself quite pleased to be married to my wife.

What I did may not work for you. A lot will depend on if you can change yourself and if your wife wants to commit to saving the marriage or would rather not change and just divorce.

From you discussion of choirs you did and getting nothing for it, I strongly recommend you read Glover's book No More Mr. Nice Guy. A "nice guy" is code words for a codependent man who needs a woman's approval to feel validated. It comes from being around and raised by women (mothers, babysitters, teachers, authority figures) where pleasing them is critical to your happiness. 

A nice guy also is into what are called covert contracts. This is where you say to yourself, it I just do the laundry, she will be so grateful she will want to have sex with me. If you look at that in the cold hard light of day, it is nonsense. So you do your part of the contract, but she didn't even know it existed and she certainly didn't agree to the contract or her obligation under it. And then you get mad at her for her not living up to your expectations. How dumb is that. Glover goes on how to become a much more integrated and confident man who no longer engages in covert contracts but tells his lover what he wants and needs and negotiates with her.

A companion book, I found helpful, was M.W. Davis book the Sex Starved marriage. She is the master of the 180 and Getting a Life. Again code words for how to change the dynamic within your marriage and how to change yourself so you are better ready to find and be with a woman that sexually desires you.

20 years may have been too long to salvage your marriage. My length of a sex starved marriage was a slide that lasted just a few years until she told me she never would have sex with me again. I am confused by your saying she "wants" sex every 10 to 11 days. If you never initiate, and yet the two of you have sex every 10 to 11 days she has to do something to make that happen. And what she does is called initiation. So, your marriage may have more hope going for it than mind did over a decade ago.

You wanted to know what you could do. That depends on you and your wife. What worked for me was to understand what was going on and start making my wife feel loved and cherished in her love languages not mine, while not demanding anything in return (remember the no covert contract thing I learned from Glover?). Once she got use to feeling loved again, she wanted to know what I had been reading. She also saw that I had lost weight, started to dress better, did strenuous endurance sports, and was much more self confident. So I selectively shared a few chapters in some of the books with her. I broached the topic of marriage counseling. She rejected it.

Ultimately, I showed her and had her read a chapter from one of David Scharchs books where he said that everything in marriage is negotiated and that there is not right number for anything in marriage, whether it is the number of times a week you have chocolate ice cream after dinner, the number of children, the amount of hours or days of the week that football is watched on TV, or sex. I told her that going to counseling was not about her being broken and needing to be fixed, but about us discovering what needed to be negotiated in our marriage for us to be happy and then agreeing or not agreeing to a compromise that worked for each of us.

Sex Therapists are marriage counselors with extra training in helping people identify and deal with sexual problems. So we found a great ST that got my wife to understand what was happening and what was needed for our marriage to not end in divorce. Eventually, my wife understood that we would divorce if she kept her promise that she would never have sex with me. She decided that she wanted to remain married and that she would need to make some changes in her life. The ST helped us negotiate a compromise that we could both live with. We have been both much happier for over the past decade. 

Again, what worked for me, may not work for you. One piece of advice I was given was that it takes about a month of marriage counseling per year of problems to fix a marriage, if it is capable of being fixed. Since you still seem to be having sex more than once every two weeks, and for some on this forum or for me at the low in my sex starved marriage, more than once every two weeks would have sounded heavenly, the potential upside in your negotiations might not be all that much of an improvement. I am sure it certainly will not be three times a day.

So Good luck to you.

P.S. Scharch books the Crucible, Sex and Desire are pretty intense intellectual reads, but worth it once you have exhausted many of the other relationship books.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> For example, let's say that a wife really is too tired, has a headache, or too much on her mind to relax enough to reach an orgasm, but really wants an orgasm, so she say not tonight.


I/we approached this a different way.

Sex-starved version, wife comes to bed and says she is tired. She gets into bed and I start trying to initiate, then she gets angry and says NO I NEED TO GET UP! I get angry, get up and leave. She is mad at me because she’s trying to sleep and I’m messing with her.

Not sex started version, wife says she is tired. I say, “sleep well!” and go to sleep.

Now this works because I told her around two years ago we need to figure it out or I’m done. She told me about all the ham fisted ways I was initiating and that it was pissing her off. So I stopped doing all those things and gave her space, but she knows I want to have sex every day ideally twice a day.

It’s on her to figure out when she wants to, if she wants to, and if the gap is too long then I would approach it as, “what’s wrong?” rather than “y u no sex”.

I recently found out she STILL has a lot of resentment about things she wanted me to do with her years earlier I said no to.

So it’s very important that you really analyze what is going on and what happened in the past if you want to make progress today.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

The past is gone, and can never be redone. Somehow people need to figure out how to release the past and move on to the future, which is the only thing we have any ability to change. If a spouse holds on to past resentments, it is hard to see how any progress can ever be made. I am sure everyone has things they need forgiveness for, we are all flawed.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

From OP's other posting.



> "My issue is that I lost my job 19 years ago, and as a result, she had to return to the workforce... _She has resented me ever sense and lets me know this fact every chance she gets_. I now have a career _that has been longer than ANY OTHER job_ I have ever held, but it appears it is not enough."


She flat out admits she resents him for the job situation. It's not even a debate. Apparently, she tells him so regularly.

And, reading between the lines, it seems maintaining gainful employment was always a problem for OP.

@wanting more

If your job isn't enough to support you then get a job that will pay your bills and divorce. It's either that or live like this for the remainder of your life. She's not going to get over 20 years of frustration, anger, resentment, and viewing you as inferior to other men.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

A lot of times women resent being the breadwinner. It is just human nature. You became the women and she became the man. She doesn't want to have sex with a woman.


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## wanting more (Oct 10, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> He does not have another post.
> 
> So, what you are saying is....
> 
> ...


Hmmm - I guess I did not provide sufficient information here. It took me a few years, but I did land another job - it was just at a much lower salary than my previous job - so she still had to stay working. At this point, it took me quite a few years, but I make 2.5X what she makes - her salary goes toward purchasing whatever she wants on the Internet or traveling with or to see her family whenever she wants (she has more vacation than I do). And I suppose I emphasized the 'sex' too much - but my whole point is that I get virtually NOTHING from the marriage except demands and criticisms. I have siblings that wonder why I did not leave years ago...


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

wanting more said:


> Hmmm - I guess I did not provide sufficient information here. It took me a few years, but I did land another job - it was just at a much lower salary than my previous job - so she still had to stay working. At this point, it took me quite a few years, but I make 2.5X what she makes - her salary goes toward purchasing whatever she wants on the Internet or traveling with or to see her family whenever she wants (she has more vacation than I do). And I suppose I emphasized the 'sex' too much - but *my whole point is that I get virtually NOTHING from the marriage except demands and criticisms. I have siblings that wonder why I did not leave years ago...*


Then stand up for yourself and what you need in your marriage.

I will say it again, you need to read Glover's book No More Mr. Nice Guy. You need to get a life, you need to stop looking to your wife for codependent emotional validation through sex. You don't need to become a jerk, you need to become an integrated man who is confident and knows his worth and value and whose value is not defined by how his wife treats him.

Do some introspection, study what others have done in your situation, make a plan and implement it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

wanting more said:


> I have siblings that wonder why I did not leave years ago...


Your siblings are right.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

And the reason you remain married, is what?


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

When was the last time your wife has came up to you and gave one of those hugs you sink into? Or the last time she has given you a nice long loving kiss? When was the last time your wife said I love you so much? 

When was the last time you gave your wife one of those hugs she sinks into? Or the last time you gave her a nice long loving kiss? When was the last time you told your wife you love her so f×cking much?

How would your wife react if you got a nice hot bath ready for her (maybe even join in, unless she prefers to be alone in the bath) hubby and myself always had baths together, scrub each others backs and always lead to other stuff lol. Have a glass of wine for her on side of the bath with some candles. When she is ready to get out, would she let you help dry her? Rub her body lotion all over her? Hug her? kiss her? Don't try sex yet unless she initiates it. Tell her you have 2 tickets booked for her favourite restaurant for you both. Use this as an opportunity to test the waters. If she seems really excited, happy then that's a good sign. If she doesn't seem impressed that's a bad sign. Talk about all your good happy times, how you have always loved her, admire her work, admire her as a mother etc etc etc. I'm hoping she will say loving things back to you. If she doesn't say loving things back to you, that's another bad sign. Hold her hand lovingly at the table while looking in her eyes. If she pushes her hand away, and can't look at you, another bad sign. If you have a lovely evening and all went well, then carry that on at home and slowly and passionately lift your wife up and carry her to bed and start kissing, touching where all the cobwebs need removing lol. Kiss all those cobwebs away. If she pushes you away, there's your answer. I would file for divorce. 20 years is a long time and I understand your why's. I'd get sick of asking, initiating, trying for years and years to be turned down. May as well be living on your own. Wishing you all the best and let me know if you try this.

Just to add if she refuses the bath altogether and kicks off a scene, then that is a major bad sign. I would go book into a hotel for the night and not even tell her where. Only if kids are grown up, or safe with mummy till you get back.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

wanting more said:


> Hmmm - I guess I did not provide sufficient information here. It took me a few years, but I did land another job - it was just at a much lower salary than my previous job - so she still had to stay working. At this point, it took me quite a few years, but I make 2.5X what she makes - her salary goes toward purchasing whatever she wants on the Internet or traveling with or to see her family whenever she wants (she has more vacation than I do). And I suppose I emphasized the 'sex' too much -* but my whole point is that I get virtually NOTHING from the marriage except demands and criticisms. I have siblings that wonder why I did not leave years ago...*


Am with your siblings. And my original response stands. You won't do any worse alone than you are now. Unfortunately, since you make more than she does, freedom will cost you. But it will be worth it. Why spend the last part of your life as miserable as you have been for the last two-three decades. The marriage is past the "best sell by" date.

FWIW, in a marriage you can't emphasize the 'sex' too much. That is the key ingredient of a marriage. It is what makes a married couple opposed to roommates. It doesn't sound like your wife is even a very good roommate. She sounds like she doesn't consider you a very good roommate either. Don't you think your wife still carries resentment from the time when you were out of work?


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Just remember this. The sexual marketplace is very low on quality men right now. If you man up, update your style, clean up a bit, and have your life together you'll be very attractive to women. You'll have absolutely no issue dating younger, hotter, more fun women who will love to have sex with you.

Don't keep wasting your life with someone who no longer cares about you or your happiness.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> In OPs only other post replying on another thread, he mentioned losing his job 19 years ago, and his wife going to work. She resented this every since. There has been a role reversal, him doing the housework and she earning the income. She resents and doesnt respect him. Both of them are miserable. Maybe they “stayed for the kids” who are now grown. Seems both would be happiest going their separate ways.


So has he been unemployed all this time? Or was this a setback before he started working again? 30 years ago was a recession (dot-com bust).

Sounds like he was a meal-ticket and when she had to step up he was extraneous. He should have moved on then.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

See post #41, he elaborates. He was out of work 19 years ago for a few years. And it took longer yet to ramp his earnings up to exceed hers. He now earns 2.5 times what she brings in. But the damage is done. She harbors resentment from nearly 2 decades ago.

Some wives don't expect to have to deal with any adversity, evidently his wife was one of those.

Honestly, I think both spouses working is best in these modern times. An adult at home alone has too much time on their hands.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Anastasia6 said:


> Actually what I was saying is if a person doesn't work and doesn't do anything at home your spouse will resent you. Female or male. In his opening he said he does dishes and stuff. However I was reading Rus. He does have another post in another thread.
> 
> I find nothing wrong with SAHD or SAHM but it is a job. And it involves work. Sex is an activity people participate in because there is love. Resentment often clouds love. If I didn't work and didn't do things around the house like cook and clean I would expect my husband to resent it.
> 
> However looking at the other thread it appears he does work. So in this cause his wife resents him and is withholding for some other reason. It is long term and systemic.


Possibly she resents him because she had to work at all and support the family? Perhaps his pay took a long-term hit? That's common when you lose your job in a downturn.

Factoring in a little inflation, it took almost 10 years to regain my pay after losing my job. And although I've surpassed that I may never make up the ground lost since then

No way my ex would have gotten over it if she had stayed. You can't help getting laid off, but income / lifestyle is one of those things some ladies expect will remain steady or improve, not go backwards.

ETA: just saw someone else say something similar. It's a real thing and kinda sad that you'd be judged for something beyond your control.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

thunderchad said:


> Just remember this. The sexual marketplace is very low on quality men right now. If you man up, update your style, clean up a bit, and have your life together you'll be very attractive to women. You'll have absolutely no issue dating younger, hotter, more fun women who will love to have sex with you.


This exactly. That you're probably not looking to just hook up makes it even more likely.

Oddly, I recently chatted with a friend about how prominent the older man - younger woman thing is (not a huge gap mind you). The gist of this was that it's real, the younger ladies pursue (it's not just the older men doing it), and it leaves older women in limbo (no man or bad men).

Look, you have a good income; if your wife had steadily worked full-time for 20 years she has a decent income at minimum. If you make 2.5x that you are doing well by any reasonable standard. You work hard, have built your career twice, and are loving / faithful / loyal. That's all stuff women really find attractive.

Even health issues aren't as much of a barrier as you might think. I have mine, including lingering side effects from six-months of chemotherapy. Guess what? There are together, quality ladies that appreciate having an attentive, hard working guy despite your challenges and will lovingly provide regardless.

I've been in your spot exactly and can tell you from experience there's far better out there. If you are done, go find a good attorney, have a consultation, and get the process going. If she's smart (and if you even care by this point) she'll realize what my friend did - the market is not good for older women; she'll then clean up her act. If not, or if you're truly done, do out and meet people and prove us right!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


wanting more said:



... I am at a loss, except for being taken as a CHUMP in all of this. Am I doing things very wrong here? Is there any advice to salvage anything?

Click to expand...

*Actually, that was your CHOICE to allow yourself to be treated this way because it sounds as though you don't have enough spine to stand up for yourself.

Don't blame your wife for the mess you're in. Blame yourself. Then go find your testicles and stop being such a weak push-over.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> _*In OPs only other post replying on another thread, he mentioned losing his job 19 years ago, and his wife going to work. She resented this every since. There has been a role reversal, him doing the housework and she earning the income. She resents and doesnt respect him. Both of them are miserable. Maybe they “stayed for the kids” who are now grown. Seems both would be happiest going their separate ways.*_



Ohhhh.....

It makes sense now.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

DTO said:


> Oddly, I recently chatted with a friend about how prominent the older man - younger woman thing is (not a huge gap mind you). The gist of this was that it's real, the younger ladies pursue (it's not just the older men doing it), and it leaves older women in limbo (no man or bad men).


They say women prefer men 5 years older than them, on average. My wife is 15 years younger than me. If you look at charts of when men and women peak, it is obvious. There was a study that showed men at any age still prefer women around 21-22. But, like you said, it is not just men pursuing young women. Young women prefer a man who has his life together, is attractive, has a decent money, is successful, gives zero ****s, etc and these men are generally 35 - 65.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I would say preference for youth isnt gender specific, hence the “cougar” phenomena. And a lot of younger men prefer a more experienced older female. There is a thread on here where man’s wife started affair with young man her daughter’s age. The wife left to be with the young stud full time. Daughter calls him “daddy” now sadly.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

OP, seems like you are a few step ahead of what’s happening to me. I tried all the items on your list. And there is nothing. To a point I already gave up. Now it’s a coparent, cohabitates situation.

I used to imagine it would serve her the divorce paper the day my youngest graduate from college. But I have be back and forth about what’s the point of that. By then, I wouldn’t bother to meet anybody else, my kids will be on their own. I don’t know. I have no idea what to do or what’s gonna happen.

if you ask me now, I would say just want to Be retired and travel the 50 States in my Corvette C20 EV, something like that.

but let me ask you something, how did you survive in a state of marriage for so long? That I need to learn … 😅


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## wanting more (Oct 10, 2018)

DLC said:


> OP, seems like you are a few step ahead of what’s happening to me. I tried all the items on your list. And there is nothing. To a point I already gave up. Now it’s a coparent, cohabitates situation.
> 
> I used to imagine it would serve her the divorce paper the day my youngest graduate from college. But I have be back and forth about what’s the point of that. By then, I wouldn’t bother to meet anybody else, my kids will be on their own. I don’t know. I have no idea what to do or what’s gonna happen.
> 
> ...


Honestly - it was always for the sake of the kids. Life is difficult enough without subjecting them to multiple households and shared custody...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

thunderchad said:


> They say women prefer men 5 years older than them, on average. My wife is 15 years younger than me. If you look at charts of when men and women peak, it is obvious. There was a study that showed men at any age still prefer women around 21-22. But, like you said, it is not just men pursuing young women. Young women prefer a man who has his life together, is attractive, has a decent money, is successful, gives zero ****s, etc and these men are generally 35 - 65.


This sounds about right. I do think men and women tend to be "hard-wired" to be drawn to certain characteristics that translate to youth / beauty in women and success / provider-type stuff in men. Despite that, for a variety of reasons we push that aside and prefer someone our own age, all else being equal. But since we don't exist in a vacuum, you get people widening their search to get a partner that meets their needs. That age gap negative gets outweighed but the positives a potential partner possesses.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

The end is here. You can do it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> I would say preference for youth isnt gender specific, hence the “cougar” phenomena. And a lot of younger men prefer a more experienced older female. There is a thread on here where man’s wife started affair with young man her daughter’s age. The wife left to be with the young stud full time. Daughter calls him “daddy” now sadly.


Sure it happens both ways. But whether or not older ladies are accepting of younger men (and vice versa) as much as younger ladies are open to older men, the actual end result is that the older guy / younger gal is more common.

Also, when I hear "cougar" I think of a primarily sexual relationship. Here, the consideration is the OP's ability to have a better life partner. We're not talking about finding someone just to bang his brains out. We're talking about him being able to find a quality lady who will provide what his wife cannot or simply will not AND care for him in other ways also.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

wanting more said:


> once every 10-11 days, she seems to allow sex





DTO said:


> Also, when I hear "cougar" I think of a primarily sexual relationship. Here, the consideration is the OP's ability to have a better life partner.


Fair enough. And "cougar" of course refers to primarily sexual situation. I will point out that the OP was complaining that he was "allowed" sex about three times in a month. And, if he plans a future "life" partner, he will need to find someone attracted to him sexually to avoid repeating his present situation. 

BTW this "allowing" sex from a spouse is really off the charts IMO. If (after nearly six decades) my wife decided she didn't want to share sex with me anymore ( and every 10-11 days is same as zero IMO ), I would expect her to have the decency and me to have the intelligence to dissolve the partnership and quit wasting our lives. OP's wife evidently enjoys torturing him. So if he divorces her, for the money spent he will eliminate a lot of pain whether he finds someone for a "life" partner or not.


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## OLD GUY (12 mo ago)

wanting more said:


> I have a very tough situation. I stopped asking my wife for sex 20 years ago - for I already knew the answer was NO. It really has not changed - we have been together for 35 years - married for 34. Basically - she shows ZERO Love Language to me - and I mean NOTHING. I should mention that I have prostate issues, and once every 10-11 days, she seems to allow sex - but it is mostly "get it out of the way and done - quickly..." I have gone out of my way to cook dinner, clean the house, take care of the kids, do the laundry, help her with her job, make sure her car is maintained, etc.... Yet from her there is NOTHING. but demands and criticism... We are now empty nesters and I am seeing nothing but a difficult life for the next however many years.... I am at a loss, except for being taken as a CHUMP in all of this. Am I doing things very wrong here? Is there any advice to salvage anything?


Are you better with her or without her? Only you can decide.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Never use kids as an excuse to stay in misery.


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## wanting more (Oct 10, 2018)

Thank you for all of your comments. An interesting discussion with 'the misses' last evening. She admitted she is difficult, she can be a ***** most of the time, and is surprised I have stayed so long, and she is thankful that I have... Does this change anything? Do I try to fix anything? Or in doing so, will I fulfill the role as CHUMP?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

wanting more said:


> Thank you for all of your comments. An interesting discussion with 'the misses' last evening. She admitted she is difficult, she can be a *** most of the time, and is surprised I have stayed so long, and she is thankful that I have... Does this change anything? Do I try to fix anything? Or in doing so, will I fulfill the role as CHUMP?


No, No, and Yes


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

wanting more said:


> Thank you for all of your comments. An interesting discussion with 'the misses' last evening. She admitted she is difficult, she can be a *** most of the time, and is surprised I have stayed so long, and she is thankful that I have... Does this change anything? Do I try to fix anything? Or in doing so, will I fulfill the role as CHUMP?


What is there to fix? 20 years is a long dry spell.

Of course she’s thankful; she’s getting whatever she is looking for and in her own words can be a difficult ***** and walk all over you while doing it and you eat it right up. So yeah that sounds not bad for her I guess?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

wanting more said:


> Thank you for all of your comments. An interesting discussion with 'the misses' last evening. She admitted she is difficult, she can be a *** most of the time, and is surprised I have stayed so long, and she is thankful that I have... Does this change anything? Do I try to fix anything? Or in doing so, will I fulfill the role as CHUMP?


Seriously… the fact that you have to even ask is Super Chump. 

You have swallowed it this long …. You are going nowhere no matter what anyone says. You are already where you want to be and have an entire lifetime of proof. 

I would say you are wasting your time but the truth is that you are wasting ours. You are hopeless.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

wanting more said:


> Thank you for all of your comments. An interesting discussion with 'the misses' last evening. She admitted she is difficult, she can be a *** most of the time, and is surprised I have stayed so long, and she is thankful that I have... Does this change anything? Do I try to fix anything? Or in doing so, will I fulfill the role as CHUMP?


Her acknowledgement matters little without change to back up her words. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, it doesn’t change anything. Talk is cheap. Actions are what you need to look at.


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