# Wrong to demand sexual satisfaction?



## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

First - I'm talking specifically about oral sex. We're in our mid twenties, married for five years, were each others first sexual partner/serious relationship, and she's had no sexual trauma to explain her misgivings about doing it. I shower multiple times a day, and would never dream of expecting it when I'm dirty. After eight years of being together, I've only recently had it "until completion," and (in the rare occasion) she does it, it's about three minutes into it before she stops suddenly and wants to switch to something else. The "until completion" happened less than ten times (in eight years), and it's usually performed with the feeling of it being a chore..

I work full time, go to school part time/full time (depending), despite getting limited sleep im the one who always wakes up early to handle the dogs, while she stays snoring in bed. I plan to work towards a premed and become an MD - shes content with working part time and spending time with her family. 

I don't mind that ( we're fine financially), but I think it's time she grows up, realizes sex is sometimes about the other person, and gets over the "I feel dirty doing it."

Frankly, I feel pain getting three hours of sleep, going to work and school on the same days, and working my butt off to better myself (us). The last thing I need is being sexually frustrated, and "it makes me feel ****ty" is becoming a very aggravating answer. 

I'm amazed reading other women talk about "pleasing their man" and honestly can't imagine my wife ever saying that. I think I'm a pretty good husband and frankly, deserve that. 

Is it wrong (after being married for five years.. ) to finally tell her she needs to drop the "I feel ****ty" attitude and realize I'm her husband?


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

If its just because she feels dirty then she needs to get over it by sex therapy or whatever because I can see you've got a lot of built up resentment towards it. That's BS plain and simple, however it could be a number of underlying reasons, like maybe she thinks she's horrible at it and is too self conscious, maybe it hurts her jaw and is very uncomfortable about it, maybe you don't go down on her so she won't do it to you in retaliation.

If she is unwilling to address the issue with sex therapy or even reading up on a mans needs it shows she either really hates it or doesn't care about your needs. Either way you need to decide if it's a deal breaker. If it's not a deal breaker and you've both tried everything to get her to get over her issues but nothing worked then you should let it go before you live wallowing in your own resentment.

One more thing, I hope your approach at trying to get her to do it doesn't involve rubbing everything you do for her in her face and then trying to put your **** near it. That could be dangerous lol.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

Doing it for her is one of my favorite things to do, and was the first sex act we ever did. She bought some things from online, and despite the Incongruence, I very much enjoy spending time doing things with/to her using them.

It's just a bit odd spending thirty/ forty minutes or so teasing her and using them during foreplay, then getting my three minutes (or usually not), and having the thought enter my head "something's off with this..."

I brought up before that it was important to me, and got the "that's pretty petty" or some other excuse from her. 

I'd probably start crying uncontrollable tears of joy (figure of speech), if out of the blue and unprovoked she approached me with "you've been studying hard, let me help you with something.." and she did it all the way. Thats my current fantasy, but I'm aware it will never happen if things continue as they are....

I've always wondered if it's because she never had prior bfs. And really I don't know if it's out of the normal to expect it, since I've never had a prior relationship either.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I think that accepting oral and not reciprocating is a lowdown, scurvy thing to do. And I think oral is a basic need in a full sexual relationship.

Having said all that? I'm not sure how you demand it. Demanding doesn't generally turn out so well in these matters. It does hurt my heart that she doesn't want to do it for you.

Let's see what the guys say...


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

I'm in a very similar situation.. 

Starting out, it was almost a sure thing. Three years and 1 kid later, I get it once in awhile, but never on my terms and rarely as a freebie or to completion. making demands is out of the question. Talking about it or trying to analyze it seems to make it worse. Doing nothing means you're just giving up on it. I can't resist going down on her myself - and I don't think stopping would get the point accross. 

She has excellent technique and it gets better each time. Even when she's half-assing it, it's good. I let her know how good it is, how hot it makes me, so it's like she gets off on knowing she's good at it, giving it sporadically, even hinting about the possibility of more and then withholding it! Sometimes I really just think she loves holding all the cards and having that kind of power of me. If any other guys have have had success stories here, I'd love to hear it! 

Nick, I feel your pain and wish I had better advice. You are in a better spot than me in some ways because you're on a good career path and your wife only has to work part time. She does not have the excuse of being constantly exhausted that my wife has.

oh and unless you're just really huge, complaining about her jaw is BS. Sex is work, it can be exhausting.. but practice makes perfect.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

ahh the old 'aching jaw' excuse - if you perfect your art you don't need to do it long enough to get jawache, know what I'm saying? Also another good reason for the man to be on top... 

she sounds a bit selfish but also a bit inexperienced - I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt here and say it's the latter. when she does it to completion does she swallow?


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

Dollystanford said:


> ahh the old 'aching jaw' excuse - if you perfect your art you don't need to do it long enough to get jawache, know what I'm saying? Also another good reason for the man to be on top...
> 
> she sounds a bit selfish but also a bit inexperienced - I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt here and say it's the latter. when she does it to completion does she swallow?


Hahahaha....no.

Usually I give clues it's about to happen and she stops then and there.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Male or female, demanding sexual satisfaction just won't work. You can't MAKE her want to. You can tell her how you feel about it, and that the lack of reciprocation makes you feel less important/loved/desired...whatever.


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## mrsamazing (Feb 9, 2012)

i would suggest talking to her about it again, assuming you have already, go into the detail you do in your op, call her on her bull**** it "makes me feel ****ty" defense, referring to you use of mail order items in comparison. tell her you need a real reason, and that you need her to be willing to look for a solution. of course this talk should be during a non sexual setting.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

My husband and I have been married 12 years, together 13. Until recently, he only got oral from me about 10 times AT MOST in the first 11 years we were married. He has done for me almost every time because he wanted to. I never pushed him to do it, and he never pushed me. He asked me why once and I told him quite honestly... my gag reflex sucks (no pun intended). Unless I actually get something to numb my mouth/throat, I can't do it for him. And he understands that. And YES, my jaw hurt because it took him longer to finish that way no matter what I tried. However, I kept at it anyway. Jaw ache isn't a BS answer, no matter what anyone says. 

Bottom line is that you can't DEMAND, or make her do something she is not willing, or uncomfortable doing. She has to want to do it, plain and simple. BTW, when I do it for my husband, yes, I do swallow. Not because I like the taste (it's bitter, no matter what we try to change it)... but because I know HE prefers it....but he'[d never demand that I give him oral, nor that I swallow.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

NickCampbell said:


> Hahahaha....no.
> 
> Usually I give clues it's about to happen and she stops then and there.


*sigh*

and then what happens - you finish yourself off, she hops on?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

That's right, you cannot DEMAND that she do oral. If you do she will turn off and never do it. Doing a sex act because of demand is demeaning.

It sounds like you have made a point of complaining to her about who often and how she does this act. She's responding in a pretty predictable mannner.

How often do you compliment her no what she does? Yea I know you think she's not really good at it, does not do it long enough, etc. But the old saying that honey attracts more flies applies here. Compliment her when she does it. Afterwards tell her how much you enjoyed what she did. Try this approach instead. See how that works.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

No, you can't demand. The best you can do is express a preference. Quite apart from the rights and wrongs, it hasn't got a cat in hell's chance of achieving anything positive.

So far you've had suggestions of sex therapy and complimenting her in the hope she does it more. The other standby of course it make yourself so fit, strong and manly, and have so many other women flirt with you, that she feels that she is cheating herself by not doing it to you.

Whether any of these will work in your case is down to you to find out.

By the sound of things though, I doubt it's possible for you to alpha up, counsel and compliment enough to make a difference to someone who basically finds the act about as alluring as wiping someone else's arse.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Not sure if it's wrong to make demands but it doesn't work around my house. If my wife ever catches fire and I yell "stop, drop, and roll!", she'll burn alive standing straight up. She doesn't "do" orders.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Personally, I think you're "wrong" to define "sexual satisfaction" as "oral sex to completion". If I had a loving partner who was into sex, who was an eager and active participant, I wouldn't care if oral sex to completion wasn't on the menu. Or anal. Or... Name your pleasure. Missing one or two things doesn't define the success or failure of an intimate relationship.

On the other hand, since leaving my marriage and meeting my GF, anything is on the menu. Having an uninhibited lover whose sex drive matches your own is a real treat, I can tell you! 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

She doesn't like complements about it because it "makes her feel ****$y" or some variant. I've settled with a "that felt good" as the most I can get in, without it turning negative. 

Anyway, we had a talk about it this morning. The other part (unmentioned) in this is that she had an emotional affair with some guy online for the past three to four years. She's had no contact with him for the past few months, and we're getting counseling for it and other issues. 

Anyway, during the talk she got upset, then I threw the "you know what's upsetting? You talking to another guy outside the marriage about sexual things, while your husband gets nothing and continually rejected when he brings things up.."

That shut her up. 

But she still called the act "petty" and "I can't believe it means that much to you," etc etc etc. I held that it did. She did the "you ask for it all the time.." I replied "what you're saying is - that guy dying of starvation over there, keeps asking for food.."

It ended with her demanding to know how many times per week I wanted it, I said that's ridiculous, but that I'd like to be able to ask her for things rather than going throughout the day sexually frustrated. And I told her the "you've had a hard day at work/school" fantasy..

She said shes going to work on it. I had about two hours before work, kinda hoping but didn't say anything (as we were just lounging on the couch after that) - nothing. Another sexually frustrated day at work. 

Meanwhile she spent the day out with her dad...

Maybe tonight? 

Btw, I think the jaw excuse is BS (I haven't said that to her though). My jaw hurts too when I'm doing stuff to her, but that's time for pleasing your partner, and rather than "sorry, I know youre really enjoying this, but my jaw is starting to hurt so I'm going to stop" - change positions slightly, give yourself a short rest while using something else, etc etc etc. But using it to NOT do something your partner gets pleasure out of, is a horrible excuse.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

Nope, I don't see anything about love making demands. Sorry.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."
> 
> Nope, I don't see anything about love making demands. Sorry.


?

Let's stay based in reality and not the idealistic, please.


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## ChubbieOwl (Nov 19, 2011)

I know some people are going to think I am crazy and wrong here, but when my husband wants oral and he hasn't had it in a while (honestly, sometimes I don't realize I haven't done it recently) he will play around with me and just shove my head in his crotch.
Then it becomes like a game and I just go with it and try to torment him with his pants on until he can't stand it and finally forces me to go for it all the way.
But we have a very honest relationship and he knows that I enjoy a little rough play sometimes, so he knows I don't get mad when he does it. Sometimes a woman enjoys being dominated a little. If you want proof, then check out the popularity of the Shades of Gray books.
I say try it at least LOL, maybe she needs some forward encouragement.
Or find out what she would really like to get from you and maybe you can work out a deal, like if she gives you oral, you will give her one of her fantasies in return.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It is interesting that you led with stuff about bj and not the very serious issue of a 2 yr emotional affair. The EA is more serious that the number of bj's you are getting. 

I have no advice about bj because I don't think they should be your focus at this point. I think you should concentrate on why the EA occurred and for the length of 2 yrs. Determine if your wife is the type of woman that you want to invest your time and energy to create a family. 

Would the woman you thought you married have a 2 yr EA? Do you still want to stay with her? She deceived you for yrs and I don't think she has atoned adequately. Talk about dirty. If bj are dirty with her husband, what is deception, lying and cheating??

You have much to think about and to do. Don't get diverted with bj's, they will come. Perhaps this will not work with your wife and a more loyal and loving woman would be more compatible?.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

NickCampbell said:


> ?
> 
> Let's stay based in reality and not the idealistic, please.


Believe it or not, it IS realistic... if you actually try it. When I started following this principle, it was like things completely changed with my husband and me. But, I know, some don't believe that these things can work.



NickCampbell said:


> She doesn't like complements about it because it "makes her feel ****$y" or some variant. I've settled with a "that felt good" as the most I can get in, without it turning negative.
> 
> Anyway, we had a talk about it this morning. The other part (unmentioned) in this is that she had an emotional affair with some guy online for the past three to four years. She's had no contact with him for the past few months, and we're getting counseling for it and other issues.
> 
> ...


Ok, my husband has used the jaw excuse with me quite a bit. Guess what... it isn't just an excuse. It's realistic. And when that happens, he does do other things... usually it is actual intercourse. And, while I get pleasure from oral, it doesn't bother me when he stops because it is the intimacy that is important... not the specific act. But, if that particular thing bothers you so much, then don't do it for her. You obviously hold that against her... "I do this for you, you need to do it for me"

Ok, I will say this... I understand the frustration because she would talk about these things with her EA partner. Believe me, btdt. But making demands of specific acts isn't gonna get them any faster. Tbh, I'd rather have intercourse than get/give oral. Yes, I do give it on occasion. But, my husband is odd sometimes. He actually PREFERS that I don't always finish him off that way. There are times when he wants to finish with intercourse instead. 

The point that Unbelievable was making is that demands don't get you anywhere... except further frustrations. And demands will make her clam up more. They will make her resent you. Keep the lines of communication open. And, see if you can get in to see a counselor to try to get past this issue. I do agree about the EA and talking to him about sex acts but not doing those acts with you. Again, BTDT... both my husband and I. But we still had sex, just not...adventurous.

That's another question... you make it sound like she has cut you off completely...as in no sex. Is that the case or is it just the one act?

BTW, to liken oral sex to a man dying of starvation, begging for food? Not even close.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Chubb
My husband does not ask, I hate that a husband needs to ask- that seems degrading to me, not bj's. But then again, I like taking orders. 

I digress. this is not about bj for this poster i think it is about their relationship.


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## ChubbieOwl (Nov 19, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Chubb
> My husband does not ask, I hate that a husband needs to ask- that seems degrading to me, not bj's. But then again, I like taking orders.
> 
> I digress. this is not about bj for this poster i think it is about their relationship.


You have a valid point. If the wife isn't that invested in her relationship with her husband, they why would she care to make him happy?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

NickCampbell said:


> ?
> 
> Let's stay based in reality and not the idealistic, please.


Getting relationship instructions from the One who created all life is about as real as it gets. If both parties tried to abide by my quote, how many complications could be avoided?


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## intrigid (May 21, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Getting relationship instructions from the One who created all life is about as real as it gets. If both parties tried to abide by my quote, how many complications could be avoided?


You're getting your relationship advice from "the One"? Sorry, but you're about as qualified to talk about reality as I am to talk about quantum mechanics.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."
> 
> Nope, I don't see anything about love making demands. Sorry.


but love should be recipracial!

if only one partner is loving then the other is an a$$.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Getting relationship instructions from the One who created all life is about as real as it gets. If both parties tried to abide by my quote, how many complications could be avoided?


...who are you talking about?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> but love should be recipracial!
> 
> if only one partner is loving then the other is an a$$.


This is why Believers are told to hook up with other Believers. If both have a clear understanding of what is expected of them, there is less room for misunderstanding. Without some guideline, people are left to respond to the whims of their emotions. It's no challenge to find someone who will be loving toward you when everything's great and you're lovable. Finding someone who will still love you when the crap hits the fan and you're not so much fun to be around is a lot harder. That's really the only kind of love worth having because sooner or later, the crap always hits the fan.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

NickCampbell said:


> ?
> 
> Let's stay based in reality and not the idealistic, please.


That is a couple of comments today that shrug off the idealistic definition of love as unattainable. I can't even call myself christian, yet I think that is one of the best descriptions of love there is, and yes its ideal I don't understand how we don't aspire to that? Or atleast if we are going to throw love out the window we forfeit our right to complain about our own happiness.

If you don't love your W in the ideal sense, then you are refusing love from her, and without love what is there in a relationship? blowjobs? if all you wanted was blowjobs why did you marry? If you want a good relationship that includes amazing blowjobs then embrace the ideal definition of love, not just for your W but for your own life and everyone in it.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

Whether someone believed in God or not, what part of this could anyone seriously argue with? What therapist would suggest that selfishness is great for relationships? Arrogance? Deceipt? Sounds like a lot of common sense to me.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

Lon said:


> That is a couple of comments today that shrug off the idealistic definition of love as unattainable. I can't even call myself christian, yet I think that is one of the best descriptions of love there is, and yes its ideal I don't understand how we don't aspire to that? Or atleast if we are going to throw love out the window we forfeit our right to complain about our own happiness.
> 
> If you don't love your W in the ideal sense, then you are refusing love from her, and without love what is there in a relationship? blowjobs? if all you wanted was blowjobs why did you marry? If you want a good relationship that includes amazing blowjobs then embrace the ideal definition of love, not just for your W but for your own life and everyone in it.


Never shrugged it off as unattainable. 

Just I would rather talk about it as adults and in specifics, rather than dealing with vague, general sentences. 

Anyway, neither of us are religious, and I'm a staunch Atheist.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Nothing in there about sacrificing virgins or praying about your soul. You want a plan of specifics like PX90? I think it's just a matter of two people who each put the others' needs first, who put the success of the marriage above their own petty selfish concerns. Whether you believe you came from the Almighty or a chimp, the definition of love makes a lot of sense.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

religion has nothing to do with it, nor is it vague or overgeneralized.

Love has everything to do with pleasing and receiving pleasure from your spouse.

Instead of demanding a specific act be performed on you, how about just showing your love, being yourself and if she loves you and wants to please you she'll let you guide her in the ways you appreciate. Right now she is defensive because you are asking in an unloving way.

drop the resentment over this, you don't need a bj to survive and the more resentful you are about not getting it the longer it will be before she wants to give you head.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I didn't tell my husband about what happened to me sexually as a young child until our 12th year of marriage. It took me a lot of guts, since I've kept it a secret all these years. 

If my husband demanded oral or sex, he'd never get it from me. Love is kind, love is patient not demanding. It took me 11 years to really enjoy giving him oral. Before that it was only a fantasy of his.

I absolutely adore my husband!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Going down "to completion," but stopping just before the "explosion" ... 

Okay, I'll offer my POV. I have a big-time gag reflex. I gag when I laugh too hard, so I don't think my husband would have appreciated me heaving the "results" all over the bed at the conclusion of the act.

On the other hand, two glasses of wine, and I could get all the way to the finish line. If not, I would just switch to a hand-job at the last second.

Maybe I was being selfish, but I gave it my best, and hubs didn't seem disappointed in the job I did up until "10 seconds to lift-off" when my manual dexterity came into play ....


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Nick, going back to your first post though... yes I do agree that your W will have to drop the "I'm slvtty" attitude whether she is being sincere about her feelings of if its just an act to get out of pleasing you.

Depending on which will really define your course of action I suspect. If she is losing attraction for you, then you really need to stop putting covert expectations on her (such as "I am a good husband I deserve it") and stop doing things passively in hopes of getting what you want (that is a "niceguy" approach that kills attraction).

If its that she genuinely feels slvtty she needs some kind of counselling, mayeb sex therapist, to work past that attitude because you are right in a sense that she is your W and in a committed sexual relationship with you, there is nothing consensual either of you could do that could be construed as slvtty... even if she just prefer it behind closed doors.

You should look up Athol Kay, Married Man Sex Life (blog, book) he has spent countless hours studying and freely sharing about sexual attraction in marriage.


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