# Lapdancing clubs and shirt!!!



## fruitloops (Mar 17, 2014)

Hello all I am a newbie here and currently going right out of my mind. Ok excuse me if this is a bit long. My husband and I have been married for 21 years, and have 5 beautiful children. We have had our fair share of ups and downs over the years generally being a struggle with business and stress relating to that. My husband has always accused me of being not to worried about sex and he always has to initiate things in that department according to him.. but he has sometimes treated me like dirt in various points thru our marriage. I admit sex is generally not at my top agenda, bringing up children and day to day stresses seem to take over and dosnt make me feel sexy!!

Okay so with our line of business he has many meetings and nights out. He also has been away abroad working the longest of times most recent for a month. In this time somebody whom he had fallen out with in business and owed money to texted me and said he was ok finding money for the lapdancers. I felt sick and confronted him by email as he was away. The worst thing was we were going through an incredibly hard financial time a couple of months back and he would take £300 - £400 cash out with him on a night out and I used to complain to him we couldnt afford it and he said he had to buy clients a few drinks to do business.. His answer to my confrontation was if I believed what this guy said I really didnt think much of him at all. He said myself and our children were and always will be his priority and the reason he works so hard to give us all what we deserve in life and that he loves me so much and has so much respect for me. I left it at that but have never forgotton about it, obviously. He told me how much he has missed me and when he first came back home a week ago things were like we had first met.

Until yesterday - I was going through some old washing that had been around for a bit, and when I was hanging it out to dry I noticed one of his formal white shirts had yellow labels pinned to it. They were wet but I could make out the writing from the dry cleaners "lipstick and fake tan, please treat" ... he generally takes all his shirts to the dry cleaners as he says its cheap (it is) and saves hassle for me.
Now this label was pinned to HIS shirt, with that I stormed into the house and asked him to explain himself. He just sat there and said its not his .. wasnt even a label from this particular dry cleaner he uses and he really dosnt know how it got there!!!! 
With that he said he has nothing to explain himself for and is not guilty. For the record this shirt did not go away with him, there were no such stains on it and it appeared clean, just with these labels on. I think he had put it in the wash by mistake when clean or thought it needed freshening or something ??

Now am I going mad, or am I being a doormat. Or could there be a very plausible explanation for this!!!????? I am going out of my mind with worry and cannot stand to look at him at the moment. I am in two minds whether to confront his friend (also our employee) who always accompanies him on these nights out and get him to tell me what actually goes on and how far things go in these places as far as my husband is concerned.. I dont think he has time for an affair, but at the moment my mind is putting two and two together and making 1000!!! Anyones thoughts and help much appreciated I dont know which way to turn


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

So you washed the shirt, but the labels stayed on anyway? Or do you mean you came across a shirt which had been returned from the drycleaners cleaned, with the labels still on? I'm confused.

It's difficult to say because I don't understand the details.


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## fruitloops (Mar 17, 2014)

Omego said:


> So you washed the shirt, but the labels stayed on anyway? Or do you mean you came across a shirt which had been returned from the drycleaners cleaned, with the labels still on? I'm confused.
> 
> It's difficult to say because I don't understand the details.


I washed the shirt with a bunch of other washing and these labels were pinned onto it (I had missed them when I put in washing machine) they stayed on thru the wash. I think he had picked this up previous from the cleaners and put the shirt in the wash without noticing the labels still on !!


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

It sounds like it's just lapdancing. Most clubs I have ever heard of do not allow anything more than perhaps a girl rubbing herself on a man's crotch and touching by the man is usually forbidden.

Certainly if there was fake tan and lipstick on his shirt this ties in with a dancer brushing her face on his collar etc. If it was more, the stains wouldn't be on this shirt.

Now it is completely disrespectful to spend money on this when you are strugginling, but I have known people that "have to" do this type of thing depending on the clients they are entertaining.

As such, the evidence seems to be that your husband is not cheating per se - depending on your definition. Certainly, my definition is kissing or more and emotional involvement. Lap dancing does not satisfy either of these.

Not to say you will be happy about that, but perhaps you need a robust discussion about boundaries - sooner rather than later.

I would advise against involving an employee as that opens up all sorts of cans of worms and it really is best avoided. It is between you and your husband.

Good luck. Keep us updated if you can.


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## fruitloops (Mar 17, 2014)

Thank you Chris989. This all has come out whilst he was away in the US. The latter about the shirt only yesterday. When I confronted him by the first email initially he did say he had had a drink in a lapdancing club once on someones birthday.. but this wouldve been last year 2013. This most recent was earlier this month before he went away.. so hes kind of telling part the truth.. maybe out of having to. I would hope he is quite embarrassed about the whole thing and his way is complete denial. Absolutely spot on with the client thing, I do know the sort of clients he entertains and theres a lot of pressure.. I would certainly hope he dosnt do it again, but like you said, boundaries sooner rather than later!! thanks for your advice its really appreciated.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Poor guy has to drag clients to a hootie bar and endure lap dances just so he can bring home the bacon. No amount of suffering is to great for us husbands to bear to keep our wives happy. Rather than thank him, he gets grief for his troubles.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

From a male perspective, lap dancing is often seen as totally harmless - but something some men "have to not tell the wife".

I do know several women who actually go to lap dancing clubs - some with their partner and some just going along with mixed sex friends. I was appalled to find out recently that some female reps were more or less forced to take male clients to a lap dancing club, but the moral messages are very mixed about the whole thing.

I can say, and I am a hypocrite, that I would have been appalled had my wife gone to a club where men rubbed their crotches in women's faces and legs.

I know some on this board count it as cheating, but I want to at least also try to give a bit of an insight into how your husband might see this.

I would hate a misunderstanding to end up badly affecting a relationship. Good luck with your "talk"!


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## fruitloops (Mar 17, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Poor guy has to drag clients to a hootie bar and endure lap dances just so he can bring home the bacon. No amount of suffering is to great for us husbands to bear to keep our wives happy. Rather than thank him, he gets grief for his troubles.


FYI I dont expect him to do that nor do I tell him to, he has his own mind!! And I also support him every which way I can for every aspect of the business. Theres always another way to entertain clients or am I niave!!


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## fruitloops (Mar 17, 2014)

Chris989 said:


> From a male perspective, lap dancing is often seen as totally harmless - but something some men "have to not tell the wife".
> 
> I do know several women who actually go to lap dancing clubs - some with their partner and some just going along with mixed sex friends. I was appalled to find out recently that some female reps were more or less forced to take male clients to a lap dancing club, but the moral messages are very mixed about the whole thing.
> 
> ...


Thank you, it is good to get this from a guys perspective. Needless to say I am seething at him right now he is working downstairs as if nothings happened


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

He knows he did a bad thing and his defense it was nothing is his way of trying not to get into as much trouble as he knows he should. He is being preemptive. If he didn't do a bad thing, he would have told you about it wouldn't he.

Many guys do think it is 'harmless'. I think the reality is they don't see it as cheating. I am not so lenient about it. There are strip clubs and there are lap dances. The lap dances are a little more. There is physical touching.

I don't think it is the end of the world, but I also don't think it is innocent. This is a good time to reset/reinforce boundaries. He should definitely be grounded for a couple weeks and take his xbox away.

Tell him you respect him and you love him, but you don't feel loved when he feels he has to have other women touching him. Tell him how it makes you feel. I think a nice little dose of reality will work wonders. I would not come at him mad. I would tell him how he promised to love and protect you and tell him how his actions hurt you. He can't defend against that. He can easily defend against the anger of you being mad. He has already conjured up defenses in his own mind for that and he is prepared. Sorry for letting out the roadmap to guys defenses when getting caught doing a bad thing.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

fruitloops said:


> FYI I dont expect him to do that nor do I tell him to, he has his own mind!! And I also support him every which way I can for every aspect of the business. Theres always another way to entertain clients or am I niave!!


No, you are not. It is a complete lack of respect to have a wife at home and getting your rocks off with another woman in one way or another. 

Some will say lapdancing is harmless. I say bullsh*t. If a woman of mine felt the need to go to a male strip club, then in my view I don't mean that much to her in the first place. Her getting her jollies off with other men there is showing a complete lack of respect for me.

I had one gf do this long ago. She came home and figured as long as I reaped the benefits of her night out, I should be thankful. She was wrong.

Now the question for you is, how are you going to proceed? Do I think this is a deal breaker? For me in a general relationship, it is. In a marriage? hmmm, maybe not. But I feel that if someone likes to have someone else rubbing all over them, stripping for them in a private room, would cheat if given the perfect opportunity.


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## theorydo (Mar 17, 2014)

It's difficult to say because I don't understand the details.


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## fruitloops (Mar 17, 2014)

vellocet said:


> No, you are not. It is a complete lack of respect to have a wife at home and getting your rocks off with another woman in one way or another.
> 
> Some will say lapdancing is harmless. I say bullsh*t. If a woman of mine felt the need to go to a male strip club, then in my view I don't mean that much to her in the first place. Her getting her jollies off with other men there is showing a complete lack of respect for me.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fruitloops (Mar 17, 2014)

hi guys,well the sleepless night just woken from.. The thing that hurts the most is that he has lied to me he had said that he "went for a drink in one on a colleagues birthday" which I know was beginning of 2013. The shirt was lying here at home with these cleaners labels on them while he was saying that and this was from January this year as there was a date on it! He would always go out particularly the back end of last year and roll in at 4.30 am I always questioned him where would you be till that time of the morning he said there was a bar that did extra hours they went to. The employee always drove them and brought him home .. How to proceed? Well as he is in the complete denial attitude I cant talk to him so maybe I should stick all my thoughts and how much he has hurt me to an email .. As bad as that sounds at least he will read it and may strike a chord with him. Hes acting as if nothing has ever happened &#55357;&#56850;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

fruitloops said:


> I washed the shirt with a bunch of other washing and these labels were pinned onto it (I had missed them when I put in washing machine) they stayed on thru the wash. I think he had picked this up previous from the cleaners and put the shirt in the wash without noticing the labels still on !!


OK. It doesn't sound like he has anything major to hide, otherwise the shirt wouldn't have been carelessly thrown around. In response to your asking him about the club, it's one of these cases of "lying in order to keep the peace." 

I can understand that you're worried about how far things could go in the clubs, however. Perhaps you can say that you understand that going to these places may be necessary for business, but that it really bothers you, so could he please be aware of that?


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

fruitloops said:


> hi guys,well the sleepless night just woken from.. The thing that hurts the most is that he has lied to me he had said that he "went for a drink in one on a colleagues birthday" which I know was beginning of 2013. The shirt was lying here at home with these cleaners labels on them while he was saying that and this was from January this year as there was a date on it! He would always go out particularly the back end of last year and roll in at 4.30 am I always questioned him where would you be till that time of the morning he said there was a bar that did extra hours they went to. The employee always drove them and brought him home .. How to proceed? Well as he is in the complete denial attitude I cant talk to him so maybe I should stick all my thoughts and how much he has hurt me to an email .. As bad as that sounds at least he will read it and may strike a chord with him. Hes acting as if nothing has ever happened ��
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Also, I think you should stop dwelling on these details. You need to make your point once to him, and leave it at that. I've often noticed that if you make a clear request, you often get a good result. It seems as though he feels compelled to lie and hide things which may be minor, because he's afraid of exactly what is happening right now.

He needs to feel free to tell the truth about where he is going. It seems that two things are really upsetting you: 1)him lying about where he is going and 2)the fear that something more is going on at the clubs.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I am sure he doesn't understand why you are hurting and how much you are hurting. 

An email is probably a good idea as you can clearly express why you are hurting and what the lies mean to you.

It is rare for anything more to go on in these clubs as, in most places, if that were found they would be shut down. Of course it depends on which country this happened in and which part of that country. Even so, it is entirely possible for some men to be faced with the prospect of sex and turn it down. We aren't like dogs on heat and those that believe that should look at themselves before assuming others are the same.

At the end of the day, clubs or not, anyone can cheat pretty much any time by buying sex, or if you are a woman just going to pretty much any bar.

It may be that he would be relieved if you tell him lapdancing clubs are off limits from now on in. Then in the future, if he comes under pressure to go to one he can honestly say he can't because "the wife won't let me do it". Cue eyes raised to the sky all round and an exasperated "Geez, women!".


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

fruitloops said:


> FYI I dont expect him to do that nor do I tell him to, he has his own mind!! And I also support him every which way I can for every aspect of the business. Theres always another way to entertain clients or am I niave!!


One should never jump to conclusions. Perhaps there was a little old lady who had a sun allergy. She used spray tan to conceal her condition. She was crossing the street and became faint due to the heat. Your husband gallantly caught her as she stumbled, picked her up, and carried her across the street to safety. In so doing, some of her lipstick and spray tan was transferred to his collar. Heroes are usually quite modest, so, naturally, he wouldn't have told you about this deed. 
The associate who alleges that your husband spends money at strip clubs would be a bit harder to explain and combined with the physical evidence left by the rescue of the grandmother, I can see how a wife might be suspicious.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

fruitloops said:


> Hes acting as if nothing has ever happened &#55357;&#56850;


Bet you he wouldn't act like nothing happened if you were to go out and get a monster penis rubbed all over you.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Bet you he wouldn't act like nothing happened if you were to go out and get a monster penis rubbed all over you.


Culturally that is quite different. It may not be morally, but an average town here in the UK will have several female lap dancing clubs. I don't recall ever seeing a heterosexual male lap dancing club.

I don't believe it is helpful to make comments that incite the OP to anger/hurt.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

It depends in which state he was, every state has different rules about touching or no touching (by the customer).
Classy clubs have just dancers, some raunchy places have extras girls, and the do more, illegally.
I've been in the USA only once, but I 'researched' it a lot, as my BF is American and he used to go to a strip club. It's hard on me, even as he did this before he met me even, so I feel for you so much...


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> Culturally that is quite different. It may not be morally, but an average town here in the UK will have several female lap dancing clubs. I don't recall ever seeing a heterosexual male lap dancing club.
> 
> I don't believe it is helpful to make comments that incite the OP to anger/hurt.


I'm not suggesting she do it. I'm indicating that if the roles were reversed, he wouldn't like it one bit, hence his attitude like nothing ever happened is classic denial and an insult to her intelligence.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

vellocet said:


> I'm not suggesting she do it. I'm indicating that if the roles were reversed, he wouldn't like it one bit, hence his attitude like nothing ever happened is classic denial and an insult to her intelligence.


I think it could be denial based as much on society/peer group attitudes as much as it might be hypocrisy. In order to see that he is in denial he needs to understand why first. 

I worry that, should she go in all guns blazing, he will feel justified in withdrawing or not engaging with her on the issue.

I'm not really disagreeing with you even; I expect if we were all in the pub together we would rapidly reach a consensus. It's easy to fall out when it's on a forum like this.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

fruitloops said:


> Hes acting as if nothing has ever happened ��



My husband has always accused me of being not to worried about sex
Somebody... ...texted me and said he was ok finding money for the lapdancers
dry cleaners "lipstick and fake tan, please treat"
He's getting his jollies with the boys. More than likely he's not having sex with another woman. You work on his concern over sex, he works on staying out of topless bars, everyone's happy.

T


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Lapdancing clubs and shirt!!!*



Tony55 said:


> My husband has always accused me of being not to worried about sex
> Somebody... ...texted me and said he was ok finding money for the lapdancers
> dry cleaners "lipstick and fake tan, please treat"
> He's getting his jollies with the boys. More than likely he's not having sex with another woman. You work on his concern over sex, he works on staying out of topless bars, everyone's happy.
> ...


Those 'jollies' are sometimes over the line depending what kind of place it was. Topless only? Totally nude, touch or no touch, what extra services etc. To me personally, a lap dance with touching is cheating, but some think it's fine. Everyone has their own limits, and the partner has to respect those.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

My one and only experience at a lap dancing bar.

When in Vegas a number of years ago, I was out with a buddy. It was late (like 2am or so) and we flagged down a taxi and asked him to take us to a bar. The cabbie told us the only places open at that time of night are strip bars. We, say OK, lets go.

After a minute or so he mentions this place has a cover charge and doesn't serve alcohol. Apparently a stripper bar in vegas can't serve alcohol. So we say, that's no good. The cabbie says there is another place that isn't a stripper bar, the girls are just topless and you can drink there. So we say, thats' good, lets go.

We arrive at the bar and it is a lap dancing bar. I had never been to one before. We get a beer and take a seat. There are lap dancers grinding on people all over the place. I would guess 20% of it was girls grinding on girls.

While sitting there a stream of very good looking ladies in tight dresses start walking around the room. The odd one would stop at our table to make small talk. Found out a lap dance was $20.

A guy next to me gives two girls each $20, and they peel off their dresses. So all they are wearing is a thong and high heel shoes. And the girls start dancing and rubbing on them. I had to move a bit as I was in the way.

My buddy and I are there for a drink and to watch the entertainment. Most of the girls quit stopping by our table because we weren't buying. One girl stopped by every so often and we would make small talk to find out what goes on there. She was quite nice and I think she wanted to stay away from the drunk slimy guys.

We found out dances were $20, but for $100 you could go in the back room for '5 private dances'. She said nothing any different really happens in the private room. She said that anything more than what was going on our in the bar was illegal. She did say that some of the girls would arrange 'dates' for later (outside the bar) with guys to make extra money.

I ended up giving the girl $20 to give my buddy a lap dance. I remember I had to hold his glasses so she could rub her boobs in his face. She thought I was gay because I wouldn't go for a dance myselft. I didn't because I knew I would feel guilty about it afterwards.

To me, stripper bars are harmless. I have only been a few times, but you just sit and watch some girl dancing up on a stage naked. The lap dancing bar was much more erotic with virtually naked bodies right close to you (or rubbing on you if you pay the money).


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

fruitloops said:


> FYI I dont expect him to do that nor do I tell him to, he has his own mind!! And I also support him every which way I can for every aspect of the business. Theres always another way to entertain clients or am I niave!!


I think he was being sarcastic 
I agree with you on the lapdancing, and iv think your husband is hiding the truth.... Otherwise.... he would have just told you the truth.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> One should never jump to conclusions. Perhaps there was a little old lady who had a sun allergy. She used spray tan to conceal her condition. She was crossing the street and became faint due to the heat. Your husband gallantly caught her as she stumbled, picked her up, and carried her across the street to safety. In so doing, some of her lipstick and spray tan was transferred to his collar. Heroes are usually quite modest, so, naturally, he wouldn't have told you about this deed.
> The associate who alleges that your husband spends money at strip clubs would be a bit harder to explain and combined with the physical evidence left by the rescue of the grandmother, I can see how a wife might be suspicious.


Ha! You are a sarcastic bastard! Might you be British?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Remains said:


> Ha! You are a sarcastic bastard! Might you be British?


With proper motivation, I could be almost anything.


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## fruitloops (Mar 17, 2014)

thanks guys, a lot of perspectives here although not sure about unbelievable post well I've been off line for a few months and need someone to talk to more than ever. Last night was a slanging shouting match where I threw up the lapdancing clubs incident .. I told him I knew exactly what he was up to previously and he was a bloody liar for denying it .. Unfortunately his face speaks volumes hes a bad liar.incidentally we are not open with each other we clam up I really think we have come to the end of the road. Trust is a huge thing but for the record he didn't go to the clubs anymore as we are nearly down to our last few hundred £ 's and yes the row was about money. Sometimes I wish I could get away and it will all be better for myself and my girls but no money and nowhere to go that's impossible 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

there is nothing at all wrong with going to a strip club. It is a form of entertainment...albeit a relatively expensive one.

It gets a little weird with the lapdance stuff, but i could see a guy that is horny and getting NO help from his wife wanting to spend hundreds on a stripper getting lapdances. NO sex ever goes on in these clubs.

Now if you found evidence he was finding women there, and taking them to a hotel room for sex...obviously a big line was crossed. 

the money thing is a little suspicious, here in the states lap dances are like $20-$50. There are "champagne rooms" where they really soak you for more money, but 500 pounds sounds like a lot for just a lapdance. It had better have been some sort of MAGICAL lap dance for that much! Like that one in the movie where Selma Hyack dances with a snake!!

Does he entertain clients doing this? that might explain why the cost is soooo high.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

murphy5 said:


> there is nothing at all wrong with going to a strip club.


Unless, that is, his wife has a problem w/ it.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

murphy5 said:


> there is nothing at all wrong with going to a strip club.


:rofl:

:scratchhead:

You sound like the poster on TAM who believes flirting with OM is healthy and makes a marriage stronger.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

He's lying about not knowing about it.

He had lapdance. He doesn't want to tell you.

You'll get some trickle truth (he already started with saying he got a drink at a strip club, etc) until the truth comes out.

But for me, it's not so much the action at this point, it's the LYING.

Cause if he is going to lie about this when you have evidence, what is he lying about on a daily basis?

ETA: He sure spent a lot of money at that place. Damn. I'd be more pissed about THAT than some skank rubbing all over him. If that's how he wants his sex, that lets you off the hook.

But to the guy who said strip clubs aren't a big deal--- well, if the couple agrees it's ok, then it's ok. If one spouse doesn't like it, then it's a no go and if a spouse wants to fight to go, then ok! It would show where the feelings of the other person lie.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

yeah I agree, if the wife is dead set against it, and told him ahead of time, then they are off limits.

I can easily see a Baptist or born again Christian wife flipping out about it.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm not Christian at all and wouldn't like my husband going to strip clubs getting some other woman's body rubbed on him. Why does religion have anything to do with it?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

that_girl said:


> I'm not Christian at all and wouldn't like my husband going to strip clubs getting some other woman's body rubbed on him. Why does religion have anything to do with it?


Word.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> there is nothing at all wrong with going to a strip club. It is a form of entertainment...albeit a relatively expensive one.
> 
> It gets a little weird with the lapdance stuff, but i could see a guy that is horny and getting NO help from his wife wanting to spend hundreds on a stripper getting lapdances. NO sex ever goes on in these clubs.
> 
> ...


In some of the clubs you could get head until completion for $20 even. And others I heard straight up sex in the club, usually in the champaign room.

Most of the clubs however, if a stripper is going to do sex with you, it will be at a nearby hotel.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

fruitloops said:


> thanks guys, a lot of perspectives here although not sure about unbelievable post �� well I've been off line for a few months and need someone to talk to more than ever. Last night was a slanging shouting match where I threw up the lapdancing clubs incident .. I told him I knew exactly what he was up to previously and he was a bloody liar for denying it .. Unfortunately his face speaks volumes hes a bad liar.incidentally we are not open with each other we clam up I really think we have come to the end of the road. Trust is a huge thing but for the record he didn't go to the clubs anymore as we are nearly down to our last few hundred £ 's and yes the row was about money. Sometimes I wish I could get away and it will all be better for myself and my girls but no money and nowhere to go that's impossible ��������
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please, don't go down this road.

I get the sense that you just aren't communicating. That you both want the same thing: each other.

It is so very easy for a marriage to slide down into oblivion because of misunderstandings and hurt when you both love each other.

If money is tight, Relate will give you counseling based on ability to pay. 

We had an awful experience there, but if your marriage is on the rocks, then it must be worth a 50/50 shot?

Be the change you want to be and initiate a calm discussion about your issues.

There are several ways of doing this and it is hard, hard work - but I promise it can be worth it.

One way is scheduling 30 minutes - a car is a great place to talk as you are both looking away from each other and it is non confrontational. Have 1 minute each, during which time there is a "rule" that you cannot interrupt each other. Also, have a "rule" that you cannot simply slag each other off.

I'll have a look for a resource about it, but don't give up hope! 

Marriage is precious.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> One should never jump to conclusions. Perhaps there was a little old lady who had a sun allergy. She used spray tan to conceal her condition. She was crossing the street and became faint due to the heat. Your husband gallantly caught her as she stumbled, picked her up, and carried her across the street to safety. In so doing, some of her lipstick and spray tan was transferred to his collar. Heroes are usually quite modest, so, naturally, he wouldn't have told you about this deed.
> The associate who alleges that your husband spends money at strip clubs would be a bit harder to explain and combined with the physical evidence left by the rescue of the grandmother, I can see how a wife might be suspicious.


Or like when a colleague demonstrated some spray tan at work and proceeded to get it everywhere.

And like when we were at an awards dinner and the managing director's sister in law decided to plant an enormous kiss on my cheek and then offered to set me up on a date... with her mother!

Yes, she was a little in drink!:rofl:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Unless, that is, his wife has a problem w/ it.


My wife has told me on numerous occasions that she has nothing against me visiting a strip club.

Still, I'd not not put that to the test.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

I would hazard a guess that half of the men on here have been in a strip club or seen a stripper at a bachelor party. Maybe a quarter on here have done so at least 10 times. It is pretty common.

There really is not much difference between a strip club and a beach where all the women are wearing thong bikinis. Or even closer, a topless beach.

Not sure in England, but in US there is no sex in the champagne room! Just lap dances. And if you touch the girls, large Al comes and breaks your fingers.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> There really is not much difference between a strip club and a beach where all the women are wearing thong bikinis. Or even closer, a topless beach.


 You laughed milk out of your nose after you typed this right?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I believe some women have nightmares that their husband might actually have a little enjoyment in life before he's dropped into a grave. If a wife can be easily replaced by a half-naked girl with an IQ of 25, swinging on a pole for money, her position is already in jeopardy. A wife has 365 days a year, for 60 years to get her man's attention. If some strange chick can upstage her in 6 minutes in public, there's a problem.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

LOL "Not much difference between a beach and a strip club."

Then, your strip club SUCKS :rofl:

In college, my friend took up dancing at a club to make extra money. I went a few times to watch her. Not something I'd do again...the overall vibe was seedy at best. Older men leering at her, younger men drinking and telling her to bend over in front of their faces.

She lasted about 3 weeks. Then she was done. I only went a couple of times but I promise you it was WAY DIFFERENT than a day at the beach :lol:

Not all men consider this fun or entertaining. Just like not all women like to shop (ME! ME!) ...if a couple agrees it's no big deal, then it's no big deal.

It's something I liked to weed out while dating. I'm not ok with it but wouldn't want to argue about it.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> I believe some women have nightmares that their husband might actually have a little enjoyment in life before he's dropped into a grave. If a wife can be easily replaced by a half-naked girl with an IQ of 25, swinging on a pole for money, her position is already in jeopardy. A wife has 365 days a year, for 60 years to get her man's attention. If some strange chick can upstage her in 6 minutes in public, there's a problem.


I never said they were a lot of fun! The "fun" part is hanging out with your friends, drinking beer, watching some girls who are easy on the eyes, and possibly egging-on a friend to drop a few dollars into a G-string. 

Like a beach? yeah for me at least. They are sleazy, but its not like you are cummng in your seat watching the women. They are just there dancing...its a whole lot more tame than almost any porn you can see online. 

I bring this up because the OP seems to feel it is a cheating offense for her husband to go to a strip club, even one where apparently he went with work contacts. It is not that unusual is all I am saying


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

To me, going to a strip club certainly would be cheating. Sorry, but what goes on there, is not always just watching. They take your money with their breasts from your mouth, even with other body parts, and nude grinding is cheating too. Not even talking about what happens if you spend enough money. Many clubs have extra's girls, who do mostly everything for money.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

catfan said:


> To me, going to a strip club certainly would be cheating. Sorry, but what goes on there, is not always just watching. They take your money with their breasts from your mouth, even with other body parts, and nude grinding is cheating too. Not even talking about what happens if you spend enough money. Many clubs have extra's girls, who do mostly everything for money.


Maybe in the Netherlands but this is certainly not the case in the UK. The clubs would lose their licence in a heart beat.

Anyway, how in heck do they take money from your mouth with their breasts? Seriously? That just sounds at best awkward and at worst impossible for many women.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I could squish myself together to get money from someone's mouth  Promise.

Some people deem strip clubs cheating. If that's a boundary in a relationship then it has to be kept. It doesn't matter what anyone outside the relationship really thinks.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I could squish myself together to get money from someone's mouth  Promise.
> 
> Some people deem strip clubs cheating. If that's a boundary in a relationship then it has to be kept. It doesn't matter what anyone outside the relationship really thinks.


I agree entirely with your point; I just don't want the OP to be driven mad with ideas of what her husband might, or might not, have done in the club.

I really don't think it's helpful to be posting about what goes on in this or that club - especially when they are in different countries.

It's easy for this to become a horror story trading thread about strip clubs whilst we forget that some poor woman is being tortured by the mind movies these horror stories might give her!

She needs to focus on healing the marriage (and he does, even more so) and setting boundaries for the future to which he will adhere.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But did he even say how the stains got there? No.

I think that's the bigger issue.

It's like the time my husband smoked pot. lol. It was new in our "living together" part of the relationship and he went out with buddies and came home weird. He looked at me, looked suspicious lol....went directly to brush his teeth and went to bed. :wtf:

The next day, I saw that he had thrown his t-shirt in the trash. lol. Again, "wtf". I picked it up and looked at it...nothing. Smelled it...smelled like him and smoke from a bar or something.

I asked him about it and he said it was just an "old shirt". Tried to just say nothing. Said I shouldn't be going though things. OMG I threw his behavior in his face....accused him of cheating (weird behavior, etc), he assured me that wasn't it, blah blah and finally he just said, 'I smoked out with F last night!" (a buddy of his).

I stopped. I looked at him. And I bust out laughing. Pot? ALL THAT OVER POT? Wtf just tell the truth.

But then I was angry that he just didn't say that...he made it this big thing with me thinking maybe he was cheating or being shadier than pot. 

Sometimes it's not the actions, but the LIES they say or the OMISSION of truth when they tell you things...


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I always wondered what the people whose spouse had a physical affair feel when they read that porn and going to strip club is cheating.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Doesn't matter what they think. Everyone has different boundaries for their own relationships.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

richie33 said:


> I always wondered what the people whose spouse had a physical affair feel when they read that porn and going to strip club is cheating.


They need help either way; I figure it's a good thing that this is all they have to deal with and if we can help keep a marriage together - whatever the cause of pain - that's what we're here for.

I would suggest that a break up caused by these issues should not be discussed in this section.

I was going to say that infidelity is just an extreme version of dishonesty, but it isn't. The pain it causes is of a different order and a different type to anything else in my experience and I know I'm not alone in thinking this.

I've dealt with the pain of dishonesty, then the pain of an emotional affair and finally the pain caused by a physical and emotional affair and you simply can't use the same language to describe the difference.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

boundaries is fine but the word cheating is too strong of a word for me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> I believe some women have nightmares that their husband might actually have a little enjoyment in life before he's dropped into a grave. If a wife can be easily replaced by a half-naked girl with an IQ of 25, swinging on a pole for money, her position is already in jeopardy. A wife has 365 days a year, for 60 years to get her man's attention. If some strange chick can upstage her in 6 minutes in public, there's a problem.


I remember speaking to a dance teacher I know who was very upset. Her star pupil who got a BA in Dance decided to work as a lap dancer. At at least 5 times the salary of any other job she could have tried for.

When I suggested she get her star pupil to come back and give lessons the look she gave me was evil!:rofl:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Do y'all realize what's out here in the real world? If you have an employed husband who doesn't beat you, have a criminal record, isn't running from the law or creditors, isn't cooking meth in the basement, isn't running around on you, isn't secretly gay, confused, or curious, you are ahead of the game. If the most tragic thing he has ever done in your marriage is pop into a strip club with some male associates your life has been Disneyland sweet and you should count your blessings. Does it make sense to spend the first 20 years of life fixating on finding a guy and the next 60 complaining that you found one?


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Lapdancing clubs and shirt!!!*



Chris989 said:


> Maybe in the Netherlands but this is certainly not the case in the UK. The clubs would lose their licence in a heart beat.
> 
> Anyway, how in heck do they take money from your mouth with their breasts? Seriously? That just sounds at best awkward and at worst impossible for many women.


There aren't many strip clubs in the Netherlands at all. I looked into it a lot, because my bf used to go to one before we met, he's from the USA. 

One takes money from your mouth pushing boobs together with your hands, against the guy's face. My bf told me how that works.

Every state in the USA has different laws, every club has a different class, or lack of it.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

For more info : www.stripperweb.com, on how they work in different states, clubs, class, services etc.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Do y'all realize what's out here in the real world? If you have an employed husband who doesn't beat you, have a criminal record, isn't running from the law or creditors, isn't cooking meth in the basement, isn't running around on you, isn't secretly gay, confused, or curious, you are ahead of the game. If the most tragic thing he has ever done in your marriage is pop into a strip club with some male associates your life has been Disneyland sweet and you should count your blessings. Does it make sense to spend the first 20 years of life fixating on finding a guy and the next 60 complaining that you found one?


:rofl:

Wow. You must have the lowest standards for your mates.

This isn't about the SC anymore. He won't even talk about it. Doesn't know where the shirt came from. oooh Lies. If it's no big deal then just be honest.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Lapdancing clubs and shirt!!!*



Chris989 said:


> I agree entirely with your point; I just don't want the OP to be driven mad with ideas of what her husband might, or might not, have done in the club.
> 
> I really don't think it's helpful to be posting about what goes on in this or that club - especially when they are in different countries.
> 
> ...


No horror stories needed, he needs to tell the truth. Otherwise she will always make up her own horror stories.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

catfan said:


> There aren't many strip clubs in the Netherlands at all. I looked into it a lot, because my bf used to go to one before we met, he's from the USA.
> 
> One takes money from your mouth pushing boobs together with your hands, against the guy's face. My bf told me how that works.
> 
> Every state in the USA has different laws, every club has a different class, or lack of it.


Thanks for the information you have posted. I am at a loss as to how this might help the OP.

You have one experience - vicariously achieved via your boyfriend. Both of you have agendas in this and neither agendas are of any help to the OP.

I am not posting this reply as a dig at you, but I feel the OP could focus on the negatives here and that might not help. Their marriage is already in a parlous state and I would like to think we can help fix that.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Her husband can fix it. He can tell the truth and let her marinate in it for a while so she stops going crazy and focus on the issue or lack of issue. But the fact that he wasn't straightforward or hid the fact that he even went to strip club is shady and should be looked at.

Im not a fan of strip clubs but if my husband went to one and got shet on his shirt, and lied about it, I'd be more upset about the lie than just being honest.

Sure, I'd be upset that he went to a SC (especially right now in our rocky marriage) but it would be MY CHOICE to do with the truth what I wish. Not having the truth creates a mental whirlwind of "what ifs" that are more damaging, imo, than the truth.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

From various sources: 40% of American males have an arrest record and about 9% have a felony conviction. 3.64% identify themselves as gay or bisexual. 10% don't even have a high school diploma. 26% have a diagnosed mental illness. 10.5% of males 25-44 have a substance abuse addiction. 10% of single men over 18 are over 65. For every 100 single females there are only 86 single males. Out of ever 100 single females, 30 will get married this year, meaning they've probably already found their guy. Only 30% of adult males have a college degree. 16.6% of adult Americans are underemployed. 6.8% are unemployed. 

If you have a sane, straight, employed, sober, educated guy, you might consider hanging onto him.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Lapdancing clubs and shirt!!!*



Chris989 said:


> Thanks for the information you have posted. I am at a loss as to how this might help the OP.
> 
> You have one experience - vicariously achieved via your boyfriend. Both of you have agendas in this and neither agendas are of any help to the OP.
> 
> I am not posting this reply as a dig at you, but I feel the OP could focus on the negatives here and that might not help. Their marriage is already in a parlous state and I would like to think we can help fix that.


Indeed only the husband can fix it and to state a sc is all innocent can be far from the truth. If she doesn't know what really happened, she can't put it to rest and to just state it's normal for men and should be accepted by women....


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> From various sources: 40% of American males have an arrest record and about 9% have a felony conviction. 3.64% identify themselves as gay or bisexual. 10% don't even have a high school diploma. 26% have a diagnosed mental illness. 10.5% of males 25-44 have a substance abuse addiction. 10% of single men over 18 are over 65. For every 100 single females there are only 86 single males. Out of ever 100 single females, 30 will get married this year, meaning they've probably already found their guy. Only 30% of adult males have a college degree. 16.6% of adult Americans are underemployed. 6.8% are unemployed.
> 
> If you have a sane, straight, employed, sober, educated guy, you might consider hanging onto him.


hence why there are so many unhappily married spouses, and so much cheating and divorce. And modern society does not help at all! The rap videos, porn, social websites that promulgate a licentious life style....

So yes, if you have a marriage, and it is roughly good, it is CERTAINLY worth the effort to try to better it! And getting all upset over small things it going in the opposite way. 

Going to a strip club, for me, I think is a small thing. Watching some "normal" porn is not a biggie. A spouse that travels for work...totally normal for today, being overly paranoid for no good reason...that's your problem, not theirs. 

There is a line, though, that cant be crossed. If the strip club leads to taking a ***** to a hotel for a BJ...well obviously that is cheating. And just hanging around a strip club to leer at the girls, instead of going with friends for a good time...that is creepy. Ads on websites posting your contact info--trying to get local people to respond...that is a hornets nest ready to tip over into your lap! 

Some on here will disagree with me. That's fine, we all have our own way of living and code to live by. Be true to yourself, actually think thru what your personal code is, and things will be ok.

If you hate that your spouse goes to strip clubs, you need to talk to him about it. Find out why you hate it...is it some irrational fear of him cheating, or a fundamental belief system that can not be budged to accommodate him? Talk it out. Is it all about the money? Well, you can get in and out of a strip club for maybe $30 here-the price of a cover charge and two drinks. You can ask him why the heck he is dumping so much money there! 500 pounds is a heck of a lot. 

Tell him to go to the club, spend little money, get horny, then come home for YOU to give him a lap dance! But be prepared to get sexy and kinky for him! Think of the bux you will save.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

catfan said:


> Indeed only the husband can fix it and to state a sc is all innocent can be far from the truth. If she doesn't know what really happened, she can't put it to rest and to just state it's normal for men and should be accepted by women....


I am *not* saying it is "normal for men and should be accepted by women" and have not done so. I *am* saying he should tell the truth. I *am* saying they have to agree on boundaries for *their* marriage. Stop pushing your agenda. It does not help the OP.

I want their marriage to work. That's all there is to it.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

For someone who hates strip clubs she spents way too much time researching it.
It reminds me of the movie Private Parts about Howard Stern. The people who hated his radio show listened more than his fans.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I simply cannot believe that guys swear that sex doesn't occur in strip clubs. Yes it is illegal in most places but it happens anyway. And every guy who says it doesnt knows that it does. Even the higher end clubs get cited now and then. It isn't innocent fun. It is also hardly the way to maintain a marriage continuing to behave like irresponsible single boys.

Men are so ridiculous. Women can't respect men who keep loopholes open in the name of sex. The weakness it demonstrates is massive. It breeds mistrust.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Men are so ridiculous.



I see.

Please, this isn't helping the OP.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

what the truth strip clubs aren't innocent doesn't help? 

her husband being a liar is what's not helping. Her husband spending money they don't have is what's not helping. 

the man code about strip clubs doesn't help anybody. I personally think lap dances are cheating. would any of you suggest that your daughters overlook this kind of behavior from their husbands?


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Lapdancing clubs and shirt!!!*



clipclop2 said:


> what the truth strip clubs aren't innocent doesn't help?
> 
> her husband being a liar is what's not helping. Her husband spending money they don't have is what's not helping.
> 
> the man code about strip clubs doesn't help anybody. I personally think lap dances are cheating. would any of you suggest that your daughters overlook this kind of behavior from their husbands?


Totally agree to this. The truth is that the husband isn't respecting her or the marriage. It seems women just have to deal with heir husband going to strip clubs, as this is normal? No, it's not, esp. if the wife is not comfortable with it. Trying to make this lady believe strip clubs are innocent and acceptable does not help her. Making her see that she can stand up for herself and is justified to do so, is.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

catfan said:


> Totally agree to this. The truth is that the husband isn't respecting her or the marriage. It seems women just have to deal with heir husband going to strip clubs, as this is normal? No, it's not, esp. if the wife is not comfortable with it. Trying to make this lady believe strip clubs are innocent and acceptable does not help her. Making her see that she can stand up for herself and is justified to do so, is.



:iagree:

and now in order to be consistent, I need to advise the OP of something called "girls night out" - GNOs. if your discussion with your husband on marital boundaries isn't going well, then if you have some adventurous female friends they'll be able to plan just the right kinds of actviities for a few saturday nights. I think that might get the message through to him.
sorry, not really kiding on this. sometimes tit for tat is exactly the right idea. then try the conversation with him again afterwards........


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't think that is smart.

for one thing you should emulate good behavior not bad behavior.

Second thing what if he's okay with it and uses it to bolster his own position that going to strip clubs is no big deal.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> I don't think that is smart.
> 
> for one thing you should emulate good behavior not bad behavior.
> 
> Second thing what if he's okay with it and uses it to bolster his own position that going to strip clubs is no big deal.


Then she'll know her marriage is over and was headed in that direction regardless. Zero tolerance for disrespect necessarily means something tough. In his face. I certainly wouldn't maintain my respect for a spouse that couldn't show me the same. She could just file for divorce, but I think a shot accross the bow makes more sense prior to doing that.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I would rather her just say that if he does it again it is over. And she has to mean it.

That is a warning shot across the bow. The other is game playing.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> there is nothing at all wrong with going to a strip club.


Really?

Girlfriend of mine long ago went to strip clubs with the girls. Her view was that as long as I reaped the benefits of a horny woman when she got home, I should be fine with it. She was wrong.

I don't want to have sex with someone that is hot and bothered because of other men. So one night she did this and she indicated how horny she was. And at that point I had had enough anyway and said[paraphrasing to the best of my memory], "well then go F one of the guys that got you horny......oh, and leave my key on the kitchen counter on the way out"

Bottom line. If the significant other doesn't like it, then there IS something wrong with it.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My wife has told me on numerous occasions that she has nothing against me visiting a strip club.
> 
> Still, I'd not not put that to the test.


Not saying this is what your wife is thinking, just speaking for myself here.

If I were to tell a SO of mine that I didn't mind her going to see other men taking their clothes off and getting aroused by them, that would me, for me, that I would just want to reserve the right to do the same.

Could be your wife really doesn't care. But it just baffles me why anyone is ok with their SO getting their rocks off enjoying other people like that.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> Please, don't go down this road.
> 
> I get the sense that you just aren't communicating. That you both want the same thing: each other.



If I want a woman, why would I feel the need to go watch other women strip and get a lapdance?




> Marriage is precious.


Well apparently it wasn't that precious to him.

I get your points though. If he wants to change his ways and feels that his marriage is more important to him than getting a boner from some other woman, then he needs to make some serious amends and STAY HIS ASS AT HOME from now on. Or if this is a business night out, and the strip club is the only form of entertainment, he can suggest a casino, golf, something other than involving other women. Or he stays back at the hotel.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> :iagree:
> 
> and now in order to be consistent, I need to advise the OP of something called "girls night out" - GNOs. if your discussion with your husband on marital boundaries isn't going well, then if you have some adventurous female friends they'll be able to plan just the right kinds of actviities for a few saturday nights. I think that might get the message through to him.
> sorry, not really kiding on this. sometimes tit for tat is exactly the right idea. then try the conversation with him again afterwards........


An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.


Only in one eye


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## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Really?
> 
> Girlfriend of mine long ago went to strip clubs with the girls. Her view was that as long as I reaped the benefits of a horny woman when she got home, I should be fine with it. She was wrong.
> 
> ...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

NatashaYurino said:


> vellocet said:
> 
> 
> > Really?
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

My guy friends brought me to a nudie bar for my bachelor party a little while ago. Last time I had been in one, I was 17 or 18 (no joke). Back then, I didn't have the money to pay for a lap dance/private dance, and up until my bachelor party, I had NO idea that it was more than just dancing in front of you - honestly.

Call me naïve, but I did not expect what I got when the guys paid for these on my behalf.

This discussion has been had here before. MOST wives will not stand for lapdances, but some are okay with their husbands going to a nudie bar. Lapdances and private dances are not mandatory (though you do get a lot of pressure...). And it's almost impossible to ignore the dancers approaching you looking for your money. They will often get a little too cozy with you during that period, too.

In any case, what OP's husband did is reprehensible, in my eyes. It's one thing to look, it's quite another to have a woman half your age draped all over you when you have a wife and kids at home.

However... OP says herself that sex is not a priority in her life and often goes by the wayside (and from the sounds of it, it's been like this for a long time). Guy's got to get his kicks somehow, if you ask me, and if HE views this as relatively harmless, he likely doesn't feel bad about it. Using your imagination in the shower or watching porn can only go so far for the spouse of a low-drive man or woman.

That's not to say he didn't do anything wrong - now he knows, that's for sure. But if the guy's busting his hump and looking for some action from his wife and isn't getting any, what are the other options, other than cheat, divorce or live with it?

The saying "happy wife, happy life" also applies to husbands (but it doesn't rhyme). There's no excuse for stepping over your spouses boundaries, but there is justification occasionally.

So now the husband knows that his wife views this is "too far", but his wife should also now know that a little effort will go a long way to prevent this type of thing from happening.

Seriously, this type of thing, affairs (emotional or physical), divorce, etc. can almost always be prevented by a little effort on the part of the person who does not view sex as important in the relationship. It's not a cure-all, but it certainly goes a LONG way to maintaining a healthy relationship.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Write a check for $500 to your favorite charity. Same money spent and its going to a better place. A good suggestion is the phillyguy fund, c/o Talk About Marriage.

Whack off for five minutes. You can look at naked women on the interwebs, I'm told. And you don't have crappy music blasting out your eardrums.

You've saved 4-5 wasted hours, and not given money to women programmed to do everything and anything to remove cash from your wallet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

There's a lot more that goes on in strip clubs than I think most imagine. 

Maybe 20 years ago, North Carolina. Buddies and me go to strip club. Buddy goes back into private room with stripper for a "lap dance". Comes out 20 minutes later. BJ to completion.

Figured maybe that was just a fluke and not the norm.

Maybe 10 years ago, my next visit to a club. Out with a vendor. My birthday. Vendor paid for a private lap dance for me. Did not request it, did not know it was coming. A few minutes into this, this stripper is pulling out a condom and unzipping my pants. I never requested anything, but the vendor did.

Few years ago. Visiting back east with wife in the off season. The night action was lame. She saw a strip club and said we should try it for some drinks and see if it was livelier than the rest of town. We went in. Topless only, and they served drinks. The stripper was grinding on us both, and we were having a good time. Stripper says "you guys should take me home with you". We obviously did not...but the offer was there.

About 6 months ago, my next visit to a strip club. Out with the buddies. Full nude / no alcohol. When a single buddy went back for a lap dance, he got far more than that.

A couple weeks ago, out at a friends for a party. A group of 8 of us, H's and W's, went out to another full nude club. W and I were quite buzzed. Having fun. Had a very attractive stripper ask us if we wanted a lap dance. W said sure! We go back. Full nude. Full on contact. Only stipulation stripper made was "no fingers inside of me, but you can touch wherever you want". She also said if we wanted to stay longer, it would be $250 for 1/2 hour. And while she said couldn't say what she'd do, as she could get in trouble, she said "you can direct me and my body however you want". Not too much left to the imagination there.

At any rate, that's the extent of my strip club experiences. Maybe once every few years. Each time, there was just about anything you wanted available.

Been to only 1 strip club without the W since we met. Topless only. She is fine with that. She prefers I don't partake in lap dances without her, and I'm fine with that, and it just isn't something I'm into. She doesn't mind if I play with the occasional stripper boobie or butt, but she doesn't want the visual of someone grinding on me and in a near sex state without her there.

We both have the threesome fantasy, and while we came close once years ago, it's pretty much just that. The occasional lap dance together fills that fantasy for us without going "too far". 

But back to the point....strip clubs have strippers....and from what limited experience I have in them (strip clubs, not strippers) many of them are side job prostitutes, open to whatever you want to do in order to make a few extra bucks. I imagine it's inevitable for some of the girls. Why spend all evening doing 10 lap dances for $20 plus tips when you're watching other girls make the same money in the amount of time it takes you to do one dance...

Most guys I know never do anything more than have a couple drinks, throw a few dollars up on the floor or tuck it in a G-string, and look at naked women. But, the few I knew who took it to whatever limit was available found there weren't a heck of a lot of limits.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I have said it many, many times that strip clubs have a lot of sex going on in them. There is a faction of guys that will tell you otherwise so they can continue to visit them. There is another faction that will tell you that only the seedy places are like that. 

Bull. There are guys with money and girls who want it. It is that simple. There will always be free enterprisers even if the management says no.


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