# 20 years in smoke



## LBHmidwest

My beautiful wife left me without any notice at Thanksgiving. We had the typical dream life - two great kids under 8, we met in college, good jobs, hardly ever fought, good stability and finances. We had bought a second vacation home and were redoing our current home.

I got an "I don't love you" followed by cruel impersonal divorce notice from her attorney. She never warned me or talked about any marital issues until the week prior to this.

She decided within a day she didn't want the house and has kept the kids 90% of the time. She backed out of a temporary agreement and now we are going to a hearing. 

Through this she has ruined our finances, losing our 2nd home, a vehicle, our primary home has been partially demolished in preparation for an addition and renovation.

She had acted depressed and had strange sleep issues but everything else seemed normal. A best friend, a bad influence, recently moved near us and so on.

My heart is broken but I'm trying to move on. My STBXW is all about herself. Long list of complaints, most of which are very trivial and others I don't even remember. Extreme weight loss, new look, and the kids say she basically ignores them for her phone and working out. She even forgets their meals.

It's sad watching someone you love change or embrace their new self, mid-life crisis whatever this is. I'm the only dummy probably dreaming she isn't having an affair but as circumstantial evidence builds it seems ever more likely.

Her/our "community" friends are abandoning her in droves but she marches on without talking to anyone. No counseling, not attempts at reconciliation and only communicates when she wants or needs something.

I'm trying to stay strong for my children and work is supportive as are friends.

I never had one divorced friend, I had NO IDEA how painful this could be nor how cruel someone you've loved most of your life can become within hours and sustain it.

I read and hear better days are ahead but it seems so impossible to get there. Like so many here say, it's hard to watch someone you love destroy everything and seem happy while their "2nd life" is their only focus.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Wow, I'm sorry. I can't help but think it's an affair given the tell-tale, albeit circumstantial evidence. 

The really sad part is that it doesn't even seem like she gave your marriage a chance. I'd fight like hell for those kids.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho

You might consider posting a thread in the infidelity section. If you can find proof then ... as odd as it sounds ... you might have a chance to save it if you want. She could be in the fog of an affair. At the very least, it will add clarity to figuring out why.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## ReGroup

Can you address this, "only communicates when she wants or needs something?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LBHmidwest

She remained in the house for a few weeks though I was mostly away. She bought a new house immediately (family wealth) and is renovating.

At first the communication was all a long list of complaints in person, seemed she wanted to get a lot off her chest. I have NEVER argued, or denied. I agreed with some/most of it. Housework, laundry, more appreciative (yet I gave her flowers, complimented her, nice vacations for family, etc.) I have pointed out some of her flawed logic for the future (she thinks she will have the kids for every holiday, all summer, etc - she is under the illusion she controls our kids for whatever reason).

Now I get minimal communication regarding things with the children or bills. She's walked away from almost all the bills. We don't have any agreement in place so I don't want to ruin our credit. She seemingly has a never ending source of money but ran down our accounts and left 2 months of bills with my first check 2 weeks away.

I am doing everything I can for the kids. I did everything "wrong" at first - I begged, went to counseling, asked her to do so.Did everything I could to make her comfortable, get things out of the house, boxes and boxes of food, etc. I've been civil, nice, never argued, listened, been berated - "taken it". I'm trying the 180 now but she's fixated on herself anyway.

The last two weeks communication has mostly ceased unless she needs to clarify something or warn/ask me to pay a new bill. Just try to do your flex and medical allocations with this going on! She had new hair, perfume, and so on the other night when she dropped off the kids an hour late. Continues to lose weight too. I complimented her on looking nice and got yelled at for 5 minutes for saying that - she denied she looked nice.... Ohhhhhh K and it was none of my business if she was dressed up.

I don't have proof of anything, just a lot of small things, texts, etc. Gaps in time, etc. Hard to prove but seem to keep adding up. I have not done a real investigation but I'm in a no fault state and it won't matter anyway, would to me but in my heart I know.

I should say, like probably a lot of husbands, I can see some of her points about me - there is no doubt I was not perfect. On the other hand her criticisms went from minor to major and very lengthy going back to when we dated over the. Over the next few weeks after I was informed. I never drink, yell, scream, fight, love my wife and kids, solid community guy, we have tons of friends. But like so many say, my self esteem is shot at this point. I know it's about HER but all she talked about was AWFUL ME. I caused her to leave. I know intellectually it isn't true it's just a way to control the narrative and justification of an emotional divorce but convincing myself at night is a new thing.

If you are reading, imagine your life. Your kids, dog, activity and now it's GONE. Some of you are ahead of me. I never had an inkling.

I have to focus on my children and my health. I know I'm cracking up, not eating, not sleeping and so on. I am starting the Divorce Care classes and am in counseling. I'm working out, friends are trying. Some of the help isn't help but hearts are in the right place.

She tried to pull some fast ones at our church, child support calculations and temporary custody. That is scratching the surface.

Last night my kids called at 9 pm, the youngest is 5. They still hadn't had supper and they normally are in bed at 8:15. It's just killing me, yes I'm documenting.


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## ReGroup

Can you get access to her phone records?
Do you have money to hire a PI?

Have you consulted with a lawyer? If you haven't - make it priority #1.

How old are you two?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho

You say it won't make a difference if she had an affair but it very well could even if it doesn't result in a different divorce agreement. Right now you are the bad guy. Don't be surprised if she paints that picture for your kids, family and friends. Notice how suddenly these 'minor' complaints turned into really big complaints. She is finding every fault she can. That alone screams that there is somebody else. Why all of a sudden? Why couldn't she have come to you to work on those things. She thinks she can just walk away, take the kids and have you pay for it all? She is in la-la land and somebody is influencing her.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LBHmidwest

both mid 40's

yes on 3 months of phone (I haven't figured out how to reverse lookup cell numbers but have considered it)

Family and best friend are horrible influences. Best friend was a serial cheater on her husband and now divorced.

Yes on lawyer


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## smallsteps

Sorry you find yourself here LB. I had a similar situation happen to me a year ago. 

Yes, at this point you are devastated, you never saw this coming. You need time to process this all. I know you won't understand this now but as you move away from the situation and time goes on you will see the red flags that were there. Things that didn't make sense to you before - little gaps in time, arguments that you felt didn't need to be started, blame thrown at you, outbursts that made no sense - will begin to.

It takes two for a marriage to break down but it's only one person's decision to walk away and possibly have an affair. That part is not on you. You will need to figure out what role you played in the breakdown of your marriage and work on those issues, make yourself a better person. Do not make the mistake of dwelling on everything she did wrong, it really doesn't help. 

I myself to this day have no idea what is going through my stbxh' s head and nor do I care anymore. Yes I know he's a narcissistic, controlling jerk but that's enough. Then it was time for me to move on and realize I didn't deserve that. That being said this is your journey and its just beginning, you'll get to that place too someday.

In the meantime, it's time for Mr.Nice Guy to go away. It's time for you to get that 180 in place, for YOU, not to try to win her back. You need to get a lawyer and protect what is yours before she ruins everything you worked for. Get a custody agreement in place NOW, do not let her step on your rights as a father. This is so important in these early stages so she realizes from the start that you mean business. You aren't going to let her call the shots.

Yes, it does sound like there is someone else. My stbxh at least told me the night he left. In my state, adultery and abandonment make a difference. That is why you need to know. With all you have at stake here -finances, houses, children- if it even makes the slightest bit of difference you have to find out the truth. 

Hang in there. I know you are devastated and you don't see it now but things do get better with time. Take some time to heal, this is probably one of the biggest upheavals in your life you will ever experience. Lean on your friends,continue to improve yourself, keep posting here. This place is a great source of information and support. I wouldn't have made it through my journey without it and I have met some pretty awesome people here too.

Don't isolate and get into your own head. Journal your thoughts, keep posting here, talk to people, get into some form of counseling for yourself. The divorce care group is a great idea.

Just take this one day at a time, one step at a time. It does get better, I know that for sure.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I'm so very sorry. It does sound like your wife up and left you for another man.

It's not normal for anyone just to get up and walk away from a long marriage without reason. Especially not trying to work it out first. Her actions do point out that she's having an affair. 

I feel really awful for your children. Your wife is so self involved in herself that she makes them fend for their own. I hope you at least get 1/2 custody. Your children need you.


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## Bobby5000

You did have to address financial issues. Stopping the financial bleeding is a first task and you should probably start trying to separate financial assets etc.


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## Conrad

LBH,

Textbook cheater script.

Find out who he is and blow it up.

That's priority 1a after getting your money in your own account and cutting her off completely.

Chances are he's married also and his wife is your best ally in this.

Quit beating yourself up. Yes, you did the wrong things in taking her crap and trying to "be better". All the while she was talking herself into victimhood so she could cheat on you.

No man ever became more attractive to his wife by how well he pushed a vacuum.


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## Horizon

"No man ever became more attractive to his wife by how well he pushed a vacuum".

Right!, but damn I gave it one hell of a shot


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## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> both mid 40's
> 
> yes on 3 months of phone (I haven't figured out how to reverse lookup cell numbers but have considered it)
> 
> Family and best friend are horrible influences. Best friend was a serial cheater on her husband and now divorced.
> 
> Yes on lawyer


spokeo.com is one option

Crush the affair.


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## JohnSebastian

US Search is another.


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## Conrad

Horizon said:


> "No man ever became more attractive to his wife by how well he pushed a vacuum".
> 
> Right!, but damn I gave it one hell of a shot


I've heard the vacuum is a good forearm workout.


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## LBHmidwest

Thanks, I mean that sincerely.

I am in counseling and trying to move forward. It's a slightly better every day the last week or so. 

The past two times in person I've seen her were the first two times I wasn't sure I wanted her back. She's just so..... beautiful on the outside but what comes out of her mouth is filth. I have hung up on her politely and asked her to leave.

We will have, depending on her, either an easy or hard time separating. With some mixed marital assets we can part "about even" if I take all the debt. If she tries to undo her marital assets that we have paid taxes on together for 20 years it will be more difficult.

She never researched how custody works. She seems to genuinely believe she is entitled to every holiday, birthday, break, full summer. There has been no reasoning or amicable approach. I only got a few days over Christmas break because I let it slip that though I want the kids all I can I'm just documenting how punishing she's being with their time with me for the judge. The next day she offered more time in an email.

It has been tough. We lost a friend to suicide a day after I got the "I don't love you" and she wouldn't even talk about, go to the funeral, or ask me how I was. She switched to a church I wanted to go to with the children. Went a few times and got an affidavit she attended church. She's done another dozen things that don't bear mentioning.

I worry for her. I see a lot of clinical indications of mental illness but there isn't much I can do about it until it more seriously manifests. 

My lawyer isn't attentive but he was recommended and who take my case first. I have the temporary hearing and will go from there if I don't like his performance.

It's hard to believe an affair but I do have to look harder at it. Either way = she is gone. But as a friend told me, it may not matter in court but it will in the court of public opinion. In some ways I think it is more logical to have an emotional than physical affair but it's probably my ego / psyche trying to protect me.

Again thanks. I haven't posted anywhere but have read and read the past few months. I just never had a clue my wife and I would divorce or she could be this "new" person.

Thanks for the support.

For me the worst is coming home to an empty house that looks like a tornado hit it. I know I have to learn to be alone, like myself, embrace the future and so on. But it feels like I have to build an Egyptian pyramid by myself right now.


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## "joe"

hi LBH. i am truly sorry for what happened, and i know what it's like, because something very similar happened to me last june. your w has acted with calculated viciousness towards you and you should remember that: she's not, anymore at least, morally capable of marriage. my only word to you is, this happened 5 weeks ago. the emotional turmoil is only beginning, please be ready for it. i'm very happy you're in counseling.



> Her/our "community" friends are abandoning her in droves


good. you have their support?


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## Horizon

Conrad said:


> I've heard the vacuum is a good forearm workout.


For sure, but can be a bit tough if you have a dodgy lower back. I need an extender to the extender!


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## LBHmidwest

"joe" said:


> hi LBH. i am truly sorry for what happened, and i know what it's like, because something very similar happened to me last june. your w has acted with calculated viciousness towards you and you should remember that: she's not, anymore at least, morally capable of marriage. my only word to you is, this happened 5 weeks ago. the emotional turmoil is only beginning, please be ready for it. i'm very happy you're in counseling.
> 
> 
> 
> good. you have their support?


so far yes, I'm can't begin to imagine what horrors I'll read in the first hearing. I went pretty soft and took out the vicious stuff. I'll try to stay on the high road. It will do no good anyway, the folks supporting me are top notch so that's a plus.

Anyone have a tip on phone calls. We've made sure the kids call everday but my youngest didn't want to talk tonight, lots of family/cousins where she was at. broke my heart, when my kids haven't even wanted to call mom I made them.


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## LBHmidwest

Found empty and full bottles of Lipo Slim Extreme pills. Only $80 / bottle... She has lost a ton of weight. In the last few days she didn't have the girls fed by 9 PM and was napping all afternoon today. Just strange. I feel like I'm in a coma and should wake up but I never do.

I've got to stop looking at Facebook. Her feed had pics of my children and a few nieces with labels "Family Christmas". Of course... I wasn't there. Dang... Like reliving Christmas all over again.


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## "joe"

LBHmidwest said:


> the folks supporting me are top notch so that's a plus.


oh yes it is. hold onto those people.


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## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Found empty and full bottles of Lipo Slim Extreme pills. Only $80 / bottle... She has lost a ton of weight. In the last few days she didn't have the girls fed by 9 PM and was napping all afternoon today. Just strange. I feel like I'm in a coma and should wake up but I never do.
> 
> I've got to stop looking at Facebook. Her feed had pics of my children and a few nieces with labels "Family Christmas". Of course... I wasn't there. Dang... Like reliving Christmas all over again.


Block her on FB.

Why are you torturing yourself?


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## qwerty1971

Wow, your story and mine are very similar. 20 years married, 23 together, 4 kids, and she up and told me one day during some, what I though were, regular marital problems, that she did not want to be my wife anymore. It sucks, it hurts. Come to find out my suspicions on her cheating on me were correct. for a while too. felt stupid because I trusted her completely and she played me like a fool. Of course i have anger over how it all (and is currently going) down, but there is still a part of me that misses her. i also "torture" myself by playing the "what if i had done this" game. I have been to war and have had some massive pain n my body but this pain is definitely the worst. 
I feel for you brother.


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## LongWalk

Clinical signs of mental illness do not preclude infidelity.


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## helolover

Conrad said:


> Block her on FB.
> 
> Why are you torturing yourself?


This is so very important. my life turned around when I stopped "checking up" on X. I was trying to decipher what she was doing, who she was seeing and interpreting what her status updates meant. What a huge waste of time. I deleted her and her friends/family. 

You cannot move forward as long as you're compelled to check up on her. You are enmeshed with her. She's not enmeshed with you. There's a power imbalance not in your favor. 

She's getting her ego kibbles from social media. Don't participate.


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## LBHmidwest

And so it begins...

in earnest.

We've had some recent tugs over moving possessions out of the home. I want to move on and not pressure her but she's upset I'm boxing up her stuff she left here. A lot of it is clothes, meds, etc., along with most wedding pics, albums, dress, etc. I thought I was being nice, found out different 

Had our first legal skirmish. I'd estimate we spent 5-6k between us (unreal what divorce attorneys cost) and she settled for basically what I asked for the day she left as a temporary arrangement.

It's hard to battle, deal or communicate with the irrational.

The further I get into this the better off I'm starting to feel without her. Unfortunately, I feel like this is destroying our children and there is little I can control except being as good of a dad as I can be.

It's hard to rewire the brain quickly, I felt like celebrating over the first legal skirmish - first thought - I should call the wife and we go out tonight! Oops, she's what brought me here....

Her fog and la la should be lifting now. That's the evil in me I try to tamp down. Now she gets to go some time without the kids!


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## LBHmidwest

It's so difficult navigating events - ballgames, common friends, and so on. Our girls struggle not seeing us together at these things.

I look at how different I've become in only a few months. Like so many, I wish I had done this before but it's hard to replay the game.

Communication is a nightmare. Whatever I do is wrong but I've stopped almost all contact except for the children. She certainly has except for "wants".

It's hard to be rational with the irrational. I've come to understand her view and mine of the past are so different. It doesn't matter at this point anyway, but it's hurts to see how far off from reality she was or is.


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## LBHmidwest

How do I or should I tell her I want to settle and let her go. I've read in her legal briefs that I don't believe she will dissolve the marriage.

I haven't had hope of reconciliation for a month.

Do I tell her that?

I kinda thought trying to give her all her stuff at the house was a clue (conveniently she doesn't want it for a few months).


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## beyondrepair

LBHmidwest said:


> *It's hard to believe an affair *but I do have to look harder at it.


LBH. 

I relate completely with your situtation, I've been faced with a very similar situation and I'm signing divorce papers in 10 days.

Never blame yourself, this is on HER.

IMO there is a 99.9% chance your wife is in fantasy land having an affair, and keeping you as plan B.

You can either try to get the evidence you need and crush/expose it bursting her bubble, or do a hard 180 on her cheating azz.

Hang in there.


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## LBHmidwest

I did a little work but she has such a sheer volume of numbers it's impossible without a PI. Part of it is the nature of her job and activities, She has thousands of texts a month. I tried to find a pattern but can't say I did.

There have been some unexplained absences and she cut off so cold and hard it seems to make sense. Family and a friend are also working hard behind the scenes.

I've worked hard on the 180 but she's sucked me in a few times.

As so many say - EVERYTHING and ANYTHING I do is wrong. Figured that out quickly.

Good news, I'm working hard on me and hit a big weight loss milestone this week (working out). 

I think the toughest things are my girls don't even want to call mom at times, she's not feeding them or getting them to bed on time, sleeping with the young one every night, just not the Mom she used to be....

I wonder if her family sees this - I doubt it. Many of her friends have peeled off too.

In person, she's developed huge "ticks", no control of her emotions, lots of personalities at once - kind of like all the things she used to exhibit but vastly heightened.

One thing about it, after reading legal briefs for the hearing it's clear we lived on different planets. Interestingly, she must not have been that confident in her planet considering she settled as our case was called.


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## beyondrepair

LBHmidwest said:


> I think the toughest things are my girls don't even want to call mom at times, she's not feeding them or getting them to bed on time, sleeping with the young one every night, *just not the Mom she used to be....*


During our separation my younger son was having worsening ADHD symptoms at school, and my STBXW saw no need for a doctor's appointment, I had to insist on one and she eventually admitted to the doctor that she was probably in denial.

I later found out that during the 2-3 weeks leading up to the appointment she was busy planning a romantic trip with POSom.

 

Is she on FB? Check private messages if you can.


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## LBHmidwest

Is she on FB? Check private messages if you can.[/QUOTE said:


> I assume I'd have to have her password? I don't have any of that stuff.
> 
> She took a few computing devices the kids use and she won't let those come back with them!
> 
> It's a hard hard adjustment. I know our friends cannot get their heads around it.
> 
> For me, I know I should have been a better husband at times. The guilt is tough. Even then, I can't figure out why no conversation, ultimatum, etc.
> 
> Nothing has ever made sense.
> 
> All I know is her new life isn't with me.


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## ICLH

We could have all been a better spouse at one point or another. I think about it all the time. Don't beat yourself up. I never got a conversation or ultimatum either. I was headed out the door to work one morning and he said he was just letting me know he wanted a divorce. A month went by before I got reasons why. None of it made sense. He had already begun to see someone else before I was even out of the house. Although it's very hard, start rebuilding a new life for yourself and your family. It can be done. It's hard but it can be done.


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## beyondrepair

Right, you would need a password.

The fact that she won't allow those devices back MIGHT indicate messaging our communications she doesn't want you to see, but I know we can easily get paranoid in these situations.

You can get passwords through keyloggers for instance, but you must still have access to the computer the person usually uses and in many countries / states this might be illegal.

In my case the paranoia was real though.


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## LBHmidwest

ICLH said:


> We could have all been a better spouse at one point or another. I think about it all the time. Don't beat yourself up. I never got a conversation or ultimatum either. I was headed out the door to work one morning and he said he was just letting me know he wanted a divorce. A month went by before I got reasons why. None of it made sense. He had already begun to see someone else before I was even out of the house. Although it's very hard, start rebuilding a new life for yourself and your family. It can be done. It's hard but it can be done.


Thanks... I appreciate it. I got three nights of blasting before I got the divorce email so she let everything out, but never really talked, then pulled the bomb with a remote.

I have spent the time to go to counseling, research some of the things she said and can honestly say there are things I did wrong but in the whole - she said I did things that simply aren't true. But it doesn't matter.

I know it's for her justification and narration to family and a few friends. Thank GOD some of my friends and people outright laughed when I shared some of her hurtful comments. People that have seen us at our best and worst.

Our children are really starting to suffer. It's hard to hear an 8 year blame her mother for ruining our family and my 5 yr old ask if Mommy has a boyfriend or new husband yet. I was shocked they think I shouldn't be alone, if Mommy left I should get a girlfriend.

This is too warping most days for me.

None of my friends have been through this, they look at me like I'm broken glass. I know I've wallowed in suffering but it does feel like I'm turning my ship ever so slightly.

Interestingly a pastor shared with me that people have an external and internal voice and conscience. Kind of the idea that peoples' inner voices and outward action can be going the same direction... or not.

For example. You see yourself as a family person, going to the future, etc. One the inside, the voice is telling you to go the other way.

One day for same people, the inner voice takes over the direction and the outward follows. His explanation for walk away wives.


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## LBHmidwest

That, extreme weight loss, mega weight loss pills, new hair, lack of kid interest except for child support, unexplained absences, not responding to important texts (sick child, etc.).

Something has her interest.

We live where she grew up so that possibility is much easier to believe.


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## ICLH

LBHmidwest said:


> That, extreme weight loss, mega weight loss pills, new hair, lack of kid interest except for child support, unexplained absences, not responding to important texts (sick child, etc.).
> 
> Something has her interest.
> 
> We live where she grew up so that possibility is much easier to believe.


There is definitely something going on. These are all signs that point to a cheating spouse/cheating partner. If she isn't seeing anyone now - she will be. Just be prepared. It really stings. He starting disappearing late at night, changed his hair style, and started working out. It wasn't for me. He happened to leave his phone out one day so I picked it up and looked through it. Didn't have to look far at all. He was seeing a girl he went to high school with and we live in his hometown. Oh, and who was the bad guy? Me. Because I looked through his phone. Geeeezzz.

I'm not trying to upset you any further but from my own personal experience after he said he wanted the divorce (out of the blue) he showed NO EMPATHY. He showed complete disregard for my feelings in every way. The best thing I could have done was go NO CONTACT.


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## LBHmidwest

ICLH said:


> I'm not trying to upset you any further but from my own personal experience after he said he wanted the divorce (out of the blue) he showed NO EMPATHY. He showed complete disregard for my feelings in every way. The best thing I could have done was go NO CONTACT.


Thanks. I am doing my best on No Contact. At first, she ruled me with the children but I did win a partial victory with more work to go.

One of the things I've read talks about how MLC spouses don't see history the same way. That is DEFINITELY true in this case. My children see it too. I try to have the cardinal rule with my children not to speak ill of their mother, but it sure is tough if they are asking out of the blue if mommy has a boyfriend, she sure works out a lot, has quit cooking, etc.

My oldest daughter had a tough weekend. Finally she opened up tonight. I know she wrote some letters for her mom, I told her if she couldn't talk to write. She told me she blames mom for all of this, mom doesn't care about her or our family. Apparently Sunday School had some lessons on family today too so that was hard on her. I did not ask for the letters to mom. I know my daughter has a lot of hostility right now. She talked about friends in school "divorce kids" and they are telling her good and bad things.

Man... my heart can't take this. I've hoped for the Disney ending but I that horse left the barn.

In some ways, probably my ego talking, I'm not as sure of an affair as I'm sure she WANTS an affair and this will make it easier. I know her best friend, habitual philanderer wants her out on the prowl with her.

Thanks for the support. 

My toughest days now are those without the children. I have them just slightly less than 1/2 time but that is a long week in between their time with me. That's when I feel myself coming apart.

I'll never understand someone that never talks about problems in a marriage and cuts all ties in a heartbeat. The children say she has NEVER talked to them about any of this, how they are doing, how they are feeling, etc. She won't look any of our friends in the eye, I hear stories every day from someone that just tried to say hi and she'll keep her head down, cross the street, walk the other way.

When she's with family or friends in public, then she's a chatterbox with those around her. But, I hear she acts like she's 10 and her mother is 30 when they are together - mother has her under her thumb.

Whatever is going on, there is a lot of shame.

All I know is I can't watch a show, read a book with the kids or get away from thinking about it. We went to the park, everyone there is a mom/dad family but us today. It's just like everything is a reminder.

My crying has started to curtail. I still haven't broke down for a bender. I'm sticking with working out. Most friends are hanging in. Contemplating an attorney change (too expensive and non-communicative).

The real war lies ahead, it's just battles so far.

I did get a laugh out of the few weeks she remained in the house it was "I'm not coming after you" over and over meaning the kids, money, etc.

Ya.... right. That didn't last long.

I'd hate to see her if I'd walked out if this isn't coming after me!


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## ICLH

Keep working out and working on YOU. I know it's hard. He said he wasn't coming after me either but the last time we spoke he said he was going to bat. He was going to make sure I got NOTHING - not even my dog. He flipped almost overnight. He even admitted to me that some of his closest friends thought he was crazy for divorcing me because he really couldn't give a logical reason for deciding to do so. My life was completely turned upside down overnight. I had a comfortable home and a structured life and now I'm sleeping on a twin bed surrounded by a bunch of boxes that I won't be unpacking because I will be moving again. I am grateful that we did not have children. I believe this experience would be 100 times worse. Are your children in counseling? There are some men on TAM that have started some threads that would be very helpful to you. Sending positive thoughts your way. It will get easier. Stay strong and alert when dealing with her. She doesn't have your best interests at heart anymore.


----------



## LBHmidwest

ICLH said:


> Keep working out and working on YOU. I know it's hard. He said he wasn't coming after me either but the last time we spoke he said he was going to bat. He was going to make sure I got NOTHING - not even my dog. He flipped almost overnight. He even admitted to me that some of his closest friends thought he was crazy for divorcing me because he really couldn't give a logical reason for deciding to do so. My life was completely turned upside down overnight. I had a comfortable home and a structured life and now I'm sleeping on a twin bed surrounded by a bunch of boxes that I won't be unpacking because I will be moving again. I am grateful that we did not have children. I believe this experience would be 100 times worse. Are your children in counseling? There are some men on TAM that have started some threads that would be very helpful to you. Sending positive thoughts your way. It will get easier. Stay strong and alert when dealing with her. She doesn't have your best interests at heart anymore.


Thanks for the advice. I've tried to make her take her stuff, she won't so far. Everything is on her schedule, want, time. I don't have the girls in counseling except for school but it will be a possibility.

I feel the same - I went from a great family life to part of my life as a black hole. I don't know if it's worse or better to remain in the home - both ways have pluses and minuses.

I'm sending prayers for you.


----------



## ICLH

It may be better for you to remain in the home for the children's sake. It looks better in court if you remain in the home when children are involved. In my case, we had no children, and I feel leaving the home gives you an advantage. I'm not surrounded by memories or triggers. I'm in a whole new environment. It might not have that home away from home feelings but at least it's fresh and new. Sending positive thoughts your way and I hope today was a better one for you.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks ICLH, just got home from DC Class. It does help. Hope you are well, love the 3 pineapples


----------



## LBHmidwest

I miss Pineapple Lady 

I blew it... got hit up out of the blue for a huge request from her. Like a dummy I got sucked into a long phone conversation, gave her almost all she wanted and immediately realized I'd been duped the next time I saw her in person.

I have to tattoo 180 somewhere!


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> I miss Pineapple Lady
> 
> I blew it... got hit up out of the blue for a huge request from her. Like a dummy I got sucked into a long phone conversation, gave her almost all she wanted and immediately realized I'd been duped the next time I saw her in person.
> 
> I have to tattoo 180 somewhere!


Yoda You must unlearn what you have learned - YouTube


----------



## smallsteps

LBHmidwest said:


> I miss Pineapple Lady
> 
> I blew it... got hit up out of the blue for a huge request from her. Like a dummy I got sucked into a long phone conversation, gave her almost all she wanted and immediately realized I'd been duped the next time I saw her in person.
> 
> I have to tattoo 180 somewhere!


That will happen in the beginning. It happened to me a few times early on. You'll eventually pick up on when she's baiting you along and you will be able to stop it.

We've all been there. You learn, that's what's important.


----------



## Conrad

smallsteps said:


> That will happen in the beginning. It happened to me a few times early on. You'll eventually pick up on when she's baiting you along and you will be able to stop it.
> 
> We've all been there. You learn, that's what's important.


LBH,

Does your wife have a taste for bagels?


----------



## 6301

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks for the advice. I've tried to make her take her stuff, she won't so far. Everything is on her schedule, want, time.


 Right there^^^^^^^. There's your problem friend and all it's doing is making things worse.

She wont take her stuff. Oh yeah? Well if you want to end that crap, the you have to do two things. #1 Get some steel in your back bone and top playing the victim. If the crap is all packed up and ready to go, call her and tell her that it's all packed and she has until the end of the week to pick it up or it's going to be out in the drive way and if she waits too long then too f--kin bad. 

Man you have to fight back and I speak from experience. I have kids too and I didn't lose them. Why? Because they know I love them and will always be there for them no matter what. Your wife is using bully tactics and your the one letting her get away with it. You kids know who their dad is. You wont lose them.

#2. If you going to be spending all kinds of money on a lawyer, then get one who has teeth like fangs and give him the go ahead to not just take a nip at her heels but to bite her square in the ass and make it hurt. The one you have might be a bit too passive. You lose. 

Believe me, this all might sound harsh but you better realize that if you give that woman half a chance, she'll leave you looking like a run down road kill and not bat an eyelash. This is a fight and at one time she was the love of your life but that was yesterday and yesterdays gone. Stop playing nice guy, take the gloves off and fight back.


----------



## LBHmidwest

6301 said:


> Right there^^^^^^^. There's your problem friend and all it's doing is making things worse.
> 
> She wont take her stuff. Oh yeah? Well if you want to end that crap, the you have to do two things. #1 Get some steel in your back bone and top playing the victim. If the crap is all packed up and ready to go, call her and tell her that it's all packed and she has until the end of the week to pick it up or it's going to be out in the drive way and if she waits too long then too f--kin bad.
> 
> Man you have to fight back and I speak from experience. I have kids too and I didn't lose them. Why? Because they know I love them and will always be there for them no matter what. Your wife is using bully tactics and your the one letting her get away with it. You kids know who their dad is. You wont lose them.
> 
> #2. If you going to be spending all kinds of money on a lawyer, then get one who has teeth like fangs and give him the go ahead to not just take a nip at her heels but to bite her square in the ass and make it hurt. The one you have might be a bit too passive. You lose.
> 
> Believe me, this all might sound harsh but you better realize that if you give that woman half a chance, she'll leave you looking like a run down road kill and not bat an eyelash. This is a fight and at one time she was the love of your life but that was yesterday and yesterdays gone. Stop playing nice guy, take the gloves off and fight back.


Thanks for the advice - my lawyer - so far isn't communicative but she hates him. She told me that over and over and over on the phone.

I don't have the liquid resources and trying to mediate. She's afraid she has things at risk and so do I. I did "win" in court so that was a plus.

She's getting her stuff and good riddance!

THANKS to everyone here. I'm a lost soul but trying to get off the mat.

Until a few months ago I was a very smart man. I'm getting back to that as I go and I always could learn.


----------



## ICLH

I went to my first IC session today. She told me that it was written all over my face that I didn't value myself. Divorce has it's side effects. You aren't a lost soul. You just feel like that right now. My therapist gave me an assignment. She told me to make a list of all of things that were positive about myself. She also wants me to make a list of boundaries that I expect to stick to when it comes to determining whether or not I will except someone into my life. If they don't stay within my boundaries than she told me to tell them to "fu#k off." Just like that. So I'm going to be making a couple lists. Might help you, too.


----------



## LBHmidwest

ICLH said:


> I went to my first IC session today. She told me that it was written all over my face that I didn't value myself. Divorce has it's side effects. You aren't a lost soul. You just feel like that right now. My therapist gave me an assignment. She told me to make a list of all of things that were positive about myself. She also wants me to make a list of boundaries that I expect to stick to when it comes to determining whether or not I will except someone into my life. If they don't stay within my boundaries than she told me to tell them to "fu#k off." Just like that. So I'm going to be making a couple lists. Might help you, too.


If you don't mind sharing that list I'd like to see it!

I had an appointment today off the subject of divorce and it was kind of interesting. Nice to hear from them I'm regarded as a great guy in town, good person, good dad, good husband and my wife is seen a lot differently than she was a few months ago. I almost.... felt bad for her.

It's good to hear people talk so nicely, doesn't mean it's true but it does help me build myself back up.

My counselor and a friend that does it for a living have been great. They've just seen this too many times and know that when a woman or man gets on this track it's a runaway train and their anger is the fuel. Eventually they run out of fuel but it's usually too late.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Found out she's had a burn phone for awhile today. Surprise Surprise...


----------



## ICLH

How'd you find out?


----------



## LBHmidwest

child called me on it because mommy was on her "other" cell phone


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## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> child called me on it because mommy was on her "other" cell phone


Kids say the darndest things


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks for the advice - my lawyer - so far isn't communicative but she hates him. She told me that over and over and over on the phone.
> 
> I don't have the liquid resources and trying to mediate. She's afraid she has things at risk and so do I. I did "win" in court so that was a plus.
> 
> She's getting her stuff and good riddance!
> 
> THANKS to everyone here. I'm a lost soul but trying to get off the mat.
> 
> Until a few months ago I was a very smart man. I'm getting back to that as I go and I always could learn.


One of my favorites from the book of Matthew:

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves

Somenhow, we codependents focus on that second part at our peril.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Conrad said:


> Kids say the darndest things


Ya, and call on phones with restricted numbers


----------



## LBHmidwest

But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

1 Corinthians 7:11

I'm not sure about one part of this


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 7:11
> 
> I'm not sure about one part of this


LBH,

Keep in mind, divorcing a woman in Bibilical times put her on the dole in the town you lived in.

That's why it was limited to adultery.

If she wasn't satisfactory in other ways, you were free to marry another one.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 7:11
> 
> I'm not sure about one part of this


The Bible is clear on divorce; God is against it. There are some exceptions when divorce is scripturally permissible. 

For example, if both spouses are Christians but one of them is a habitual adulterer, then divorce is permissible to the offended spouse. Another example is when the nonbelieving spouse leaves the Christian spouse. Divorce is permissible because the couple is unequally yoked together.

If one spouse is a Christian and the other spouse is a (drunk, poor, loser, angry, gambler, whatever) the believing spouse is NOT supposed to seek divorce because the Christian spouse sanctifies the weaker spouse.

For example, suppose a Christian woman has a Christian husband who is not emotionally available to her or the family, can she divorce? Not according to scripture. She is supposed to work on the marriage through faith and allow God to sanctify the husband. Suppose a husband has a toxic relationship with his wife and they are both Christians. Can he divorce her so he can finally stop all of their bickering? Not according to the Bible. In both of these instances in a Christian marriage the spouse who divorces the weaker Christian and then goes on to remarry is committing adultery.

God hates divorce. Christians are not to seek divorce, they are to work out their differences amongst each other. Christians are not supposed to divorce the spouse because they think they can do better with a different person. That is not the intent of marriage. Marriage is a covenant between husband, wife, and the Lord.

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/4607.htm


----------



## Conrad

Picture,

Divorce meant something quite different when those words were written.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Picture,
> 
> Divorce meant something quite different when those words were written.


God's commandments about marriage and divorce are written in scripture. What is quite different is how people interpret what is written.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> God's commandments about marriage and divorce are written in scripture. What is quite different is how people interpret what is written.


I completely disagree.

King Solomon had 750+ wives.

You're entitled to your view.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> I completely disagree.
> 
> King Solomon had 750+ wives.
> 
> You're entitled to your view.


Correct. Old Testament. Keep reading, you'll get it.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Correct. Old Testament. Keep reading, you'll get it.


Condescending much?


----------



## Pictureless

I'm not a nice guy


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> I'm not a nice guy


I'm an ass, you're an ass.

But, I have historical context.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> I'm an ass, you're an ass.
> 
> But, I have historical context.


I have what is written in the bible.

Your argument is not with me. Take it up with God.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Dear Lord,

I'm in pain. Many of us here are.

No one has all the answers about the bible, Jesus Christ, or God. But we all walk a path we choose and I hope you bless us on our way.

The challenge you have given me is tearing me apart. I am seeking you, I hope you receive me, I'm a lost tortured soul but I am trying. I am trying.

divorce care daily email excerpt today
A “painful soul” is what’s left of your soul after it has been torn apart. Here is what a painful soul feels like:

“It felt like all of my blood had turned to ice,” shares Susan. “My heart was racing. I thought that I was going to get sick. I remember having this feeling that a big hole had opened up underneath me and that I was sinking down into it, and I couldn’t find my way back up.”

James says, “I felt like my heart and my soul had been pulled out.”

God can and will heal you. Your painful soul can be mended. The Bible says, “He restores my soul” (Psalm 23:3). But how? Psalm 19:7 says, “The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul.” God’s words in the Bible will revive your soul. Make a commitment to read the Bible each day.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Dear Lord,
> 
> I'm in pain. Many of us here are.
> 
> No one has all the answers about the bible, Jesus Christ, or God. But we all walk a path we choose and I hope you bless us on our way.
> 
> The challenge you have given me is tearing me apart. I am seeking you, I hope you receive me, I'm a lost tortured soul but I am trying. I am trying.
> 
> divorce care daily email excerpt today
> A “painful soul” is what’s left of your soul after it has been torn apart. Here is what a painful soul feels like:
> 
> “It felt like all of my blood had turned to ice,” shares Susan. “My heart was racing. I thought that I was going to get sick. I remember having this feeling that a big hole had opened up underneath me and that I was sinking down into it, and I couldn’t find my way back up.”
> 
> James says, “I felt like my heart and my soul had been pulled out.”
> 
> God can and will heal you. Your painful soul can be mended. The Bible says, “He restores my soul” (Psalm 23:3). But how? Psalm 19:7 says, “The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul.” God’s words in the Bible will revive your soul. Make a commitment to read the Bible each day.


LBH, 

What a beautiful post. I feel your pain. I know what you are going through because it's happening to me now. We love our wives but they are rejecting us.

God knows our sorrow and will heal us because he loves us and wants us to be happy. We have to believe and trust in Him. He will solve our problems if we give them to him. God works on his own time so be patient. God wants us to learn from this trial. What have you learned?

We have victory over rejection! The one who loves us most, just as we are, will never reject us. Never! When He made us He said we were very good. We belong to Jesus, and he believes we are so competent and worthy of His love that he was willing to die for our sins. Now that's love! Dying for someone else's mistakes. My wife couldn't say sorry for the simplest offense, but my Lord paid for all my sins on the cross.

I know I'm a Christian. My wife claims she is. 1 Corinthians 7:15 says if you are a Christian and your spouse is an unbeliever and they abandon the marriage you should let them go. I said to my wife Christians don't give up on marriage, they try to work out their differences. She said she didn't want to. She initiated and has paid for the divorce. 

Is she a Christian? Only God knows what's in her heart, but I didn't break our covenant, she did. Now I am at peace. No more fighting, no more despair. Christians seek peace love and happiness. She could have had all that with me if she tried but she doesn't want to do things God's way, she wants to do things her way. Maybe she is a Christian, but she's not acting like one.

LBH, your situation sounds similar to mine. Understand that you can't make someone love you and that you can't control their behaviors. God allows bad things to happen to good people because he wants us to grow. God doesn't allow anyone to take on more than they can handle, and with His help you can overcome any problem. You just have to believe.

God bless you.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> I have what is written in the bible.
> 
> Your argument is not with me. Take it up with God.


And, you're His spokesman.

Good deal.

Explains much.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> And, you're His spokesman.
> 
> Good deal.
> 
> Explains much.


Nope. Never said I was. Who's condescending? Go look in the mirror. 

I know what it says in the bible, you have your historical context.

Follow and believe what you wish it matters not to me.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Nope. Never said I was. Who's condescending? Go look in the mirror.
> 
> I know what it says in the bible, you have your historical context.
> 
> Follow and believe what you wish it matters not to me.


When did western civilization stop permitting men to take more than one wife?

And, why did that happen?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I know I have to be a better man, husband and father. I have been very introspective and trying to come out of the other side a better person.

This is not a grueling trip I wanted to take but I have been put upon the road whether I want to walk this path alone or not.

This whole breakup, on a multitude of levels - has no logic and I'm a logical person. It's like trying to do a puzzle but the pieces are from 10 different boxes. I just can't do it.

The worst is my children. I can't stand to be apart from them. I can look at my marriage, inlaws, wife and see that I deserve to be with someone that loves - faults and all. Yet, the prospect of finding her or vice versa seems so unlikely right now.

I will keep on the 180, counseling and getting better every week. I've found every day doesn't work, two steps forward, 1 back, 1 forward, two back, three forward and one back and so on.

A pastor told me that people have inner voices telling us our secret thoughts. Other voices tell us what we should do, what is moral, acceptable. In some, the inner negative voice wins and with my wife, this seems to make sense.

I think, she is finally getting the love she wanted from her mother too because of this. seems odd but a piece of the puzzle.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Technical question - I find the 180 tough is some respects.

My wife will contact me - usually email or text telling me she's done or wants certain things. Sometimes reasonable, sometimes not. Can be about kids, financial issues, belongings, etc.

She has a pattern of only pursuing her interests and placating me, string me along til she gets what she wants.

Examples - offering to switch weekends with kids, then refusing. Offering to consider mediation, then not talk about it after she gets some stuff. Doesn't respond to suggestions about how we handle things with kids, calls, school, etc. But then wants something.

Anyone have good phrasing or ideas to set boundaries. This seems juvenile in my own mind to ask but I'm curious how others handle this.


----------



## Conrad

"I'm not ok with X" (whatever it is) works like a charm.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Life is better with the kids!


----------



## soca70

LBHmidwest said:


> Found out she's had a burn phone for awhile today. Surprise Surprise...


LBH - read your post. Noticed some similarities to mine. Do not settle for less than 50/50 on the kids and I'd go for more if possible with this revelation.


----------



## LBHmidwest

SOCA - have read your thread.

One thing about all this is the speed she's moved at. IDLY, Divorce, new House in a few weeks. It's been warping to me at least especially since there was no warning (I'm a big dummy obviously)

Trying to get into mediation. Would be my preferred route and I think best for all us, family included. Get things settled amicably

I'm still just a yo you of up down up down. I can cognitively know the right things to do and think but I can't make myself always do them.

Too many reminders, too many common friends, too many odd things.

Latest - didn't want to talk to the kids any more after this morning today and doesn't want 1/2 of an upcoming school break...

My girls have looked at me a few times this weekend when they know I'm grinding on things (I'm trying not to around them) and told me "You are a good dad, don't be sad dad, we know Mom wanted to leave the family." (mouths of babes...) On one hand it's great they pick those things up and I beat myself up because they do pick those things up.

I'm amazed they tell me mom never ever talks about anything or asks how they are doing. She's enjoying life - money, new house, new clothes, my money, fun.... I think., and so on. And I was thinking this was the best year of the rest of my life a few months ago. Now I live in a destroyed house, lost additional property, kids having struggles, finances shot, retirement next, downgraded vehicles, can barely keep going at work.

I had no idea divorce could be this awful and sure had never dreamt of it. As a child of divorce I never ever wanted my kids to be in this situation.

I was called a horrible dad and emotional abuser last week for the 2nd time. Total BS on the horrible dad, and I asked if she looked up emotional abuse and what factors I fit. After stammering - I controlled her. I asked in what ways.... she wasn't sure. I said you did the finances, you went wherever whenever with whoever you wanted and I never even gave it a second thought. I didn't love her family - her family is dysfunctional and disintegrating. So... I know cognitively she's wrong yet it hurts and I second think myself. My counselor said typically emotional abusers tend not to be as introspective as I am and so on but it's hard to not grind on that label.

I know it's BS but it's hard to not blame myself and feel a tremendous amount of guilt. Thank GOD so many friends tell me it's all BS - no way did I cause anything or create problems in my marriage. But, I also know I did do things too and could be a be a better dad and husband. I have to work on me and be a better person.

Of course, anything is perception, justification, narrative and so on. Nothing I can control there but it sure hurts.

It makes no sense but my heart wants her back worse now than ever and my brain wants her back less now than ever. I think a huge component is the children. I was at a game the other night and the kids were introduced for parents night, many of the kids had parents with different names, it just went through me like a laser.


----------



## Pictureless

LBH

Hang tough. What you're feeling right now is normal. Emotions cause people to look for blame to explain why when bad things happen.

You are not to blame. You cannot control the feelings and behavior of others. You can control yours.


----------



## LBHmidwest

been wrestling with putting separated on our relationship on Facebook. Don't know why, seems hard or wrong to do. Seems like she should do it.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> been wrestling with putting separated on our relationship on Facebook. Don't know why, seems hard or wrong to do. Seems like she should do it.


Mine deleted me from FB almost immediately afterwards. It's like I never existed. She either really hates me or has to pretend she does in order to ease her guilty conscience. Or maybe she doesn't want to offend her POSOM. :lol:

I'm lucky. One less tie to an immature and selfish person. I cancelled my FB account. I never liked it anyway. It always seemed so narcissistic and shallow...hey look at me, look what we're doing, see where we are. Blah. 

I believe if someone wants to tell me something, they will speak to me or call me. F FB! It's for cheaters and teenage girls!

Start thinking about you LBH. What do YOU want the world to know about you. And then don't tell them, show them! Show them your amazing awesomeness and prove what a dip sheep she was for throwing away her own happiness with both hands.


----------



## Blindsided13

My husband did same deleted me from fb then denied it, are we in high school ? They threw away happiness thinking it can be found somewhere else not realizing it is inside you . Work on yourself, live your life. Be happy.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## LBHmidwest

Pictureless said:


> Mine deleted me from FB almost immediately afterwards. It's like I never existed. She either really hates me or has to pretend she does in order to ease her guilty conscience. Or maybe she doesn't want to offend her POSOM. :lol:
> 
> I'm lucky. One less tie to an immature and selfish person. I cancelled my FB account. I never liked it anyway. It always seemed so narcissistic and shallow...hey look at me, look what we're doing, see where we are. Blah.
> 
> I believe if someone wants to tell me something, they will speak to me or call me. F FB! It's for cheaters and teenage girls!
> 
> Start thinking about you LBH. What do YOU want the world to know about you. And then don't tell them, show them! Show them your amazing awesomeness and prove what a dip sheep she was for throwing away her own happiness with both hands.


Thanks and good advice. I went ahead and marked Separated. Then wanted to go back and not do and FB doesnt let me  So... it's done. Actually feels good today. Her account still shows married
:smthumbup:

took the girls to church, mom could have came but didn't show. I could heare the girls asking where she was yesterday and this morning on the phone during their call but she wouldn't tell them. I guess she really really really misses them. Hard on the kids more than anything.

I am doing everything for me and my children. Just shows me the custody fight never had anything to do with the girls - just the check.

And... another unexplained absence out of town. Hmmm


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks and good advice. I went ahead and marked Separated. Then wanted to go back and not do and FB doesnt let me  So... it's done. Actually feels good today. Her account still shows married
> :smthumbup:
> 
> took the girls to church, mom could have came but didn't show. I could heare the girls asking where she was yesterday and this morning on the phone during their call but she wouldn't tell them. I guess she really really really misses them. Hard on the kids more than anything.
> 
> I am doing everything for me and my children. Just shows me the custody fight never had anything to do with the girls - just the check.
> 
> And... another unexplained absence out of town. Hmmm


Rock on, Alpha Male!

If you look around you can find instructions on how to change your status to divorced.

Is your phone ringing with calls from her? Is she texting you her love? Remember this.

Don't just signal you are moving on, MOVE ON. Delete every photo, email, FB post; any and all non-divorce related matters concerning her. Block her on FB. Delete her from your contacts. Set her cell calls to go to voicemail. Trust me, if its really important she will get in touch with you.

Then go have a steak dinner and do something YOU like doing that you always put off doing because she didn't like it.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Actually she has disappeared off FB and that was her big big thing at night. I think it has been painful for her to see how her friends have abandoned her in droves. The only people commenting on anything she put up were her family members.

She's barely contacting me and I her. Contact occurs only about kids and when she wants something. I try to go days, not minutes without replying if I can.

No love to me! Heck she was mad I boxed up her stuff and put it on the porch. I was shocked she only took major household stuff this week I wanted her to take it all (half) but now I have to do one more time in a week or so. Aaargh. 

I'd say more but it would narrow me down so much. 

All she has worried about is her new house and I think the boyfriend but I've never proven it.

The big outside influence on her is a wealthy family "getting her back". She's been out of their clutches off and on for 20 years. She is back with them for one reason - MONEY - they are financing her escape.

I only hit separated because we have not divorced. She seems to want one as fast as possible.

I'm sure many of us have inlaws or know people that think the world only works "their" way and with wealth often it does. The shock of me getting almost half the kids time rocked them a bit and they know I'm coming.

I did have to laugh reading discovery from her about how I'll handle the children's religious upbringing. She's went to church 3-4 times in a year - all but one with her mom. Ya.... Makes sense for her to bring that up.

I believe more and more there is a man simply because what kind of mother wouldn't want to see her kids in church if she hadn't in a week. Makes no sense unless romance involved. 

I don't know whether to puke or cry thinking about it.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> I don't know whether to puke or cry thinking about it.


Neither will get her back.

I know you are venting. It's good to let it out. But she ain't coming back, dude. If it makes you feel better, mine isn't either. Like you, I have no proof of POSOM but I just know. The extreme overnight change, the NC, the hatred of me, the speed of divorce, etc.

It sucks. But it's reality. Don't give her the satisfaction. The NC from mine has been a blessing. Use the NC from yours to detach.

Move on. You are free from misery. What a awesome gift you have been given. Now take the fight to her. Boot her in the a$$ as she's walking out the door of your life!


----------



## synthetic

Anger is your best friend. Don't push it away. Invite anger with open arms and be a good host for it for the next few months. You need it to survive her betrayal.

Always feel angry towards her and use the energy for mere 'survival'. There's nothing special for you to do in these trying times. You just need to survive using your anger. 

Your anger will subside later on and you'll find your sanity back.

She betrayed you. End of story.


----------



## LBHmidwest

She called her best friend within minutes of getting off the phone with her daughters to say she was with family out of town.... Ya, right. She couldn't tell her daughters that. Uh huh. Yeah.

Love to see her outed, that's for sure. And the OM.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Actually she has disappeared off FB and that was her big big thing at night. I think it has been painful for her to see how her friends have abandoned her in droves. The only people commenting on anything she put up were her family members.
> 
> She's barely contacting me and I her. Contact occurs only about kids and when she wants something. I try to go days, not minutes without replying if I can.
> 
> No love to me! Heck she was mad I boxed up her stuff and put it on the porch. I was shocked she only took major household stuff this week I wanted her to take it all (half) but now I have to do one more time in a week or so. Aaargh.
> 
> I'd say more but it would narrow me down so much.
> 
> All she has worried about is her new house and I think the boyfriend but I've never proven it.
> 
> The big outside influence on her is a wealthy family "getting her back". She's been out of their clutches off and on for 20 years. She is back with them for one reason - MONEY - they are financing her escape.
> 
> I only hit separated because we have not divorced. She seems to want one as fast as possible.
> 
> I'm sure many of us have inlaws or know people that think the world only works "their" way and with wealth often it does. The shock of me getting almost half the kids time rocked them a bit and they know I'm coming.
> 
> I did have to laugh reading discovery from her about how I'll handle the children's religious upbringing. She's went to church 3-4 times in a year - all but one with her mom. Ya.... Makes sense for her to bring that up.
> 
> I believe more and more there is a man simply because what kind of mother wouldn't want to see her kids in church if she hadn't in a week. Makes no sense unless romance involved.
> 
> I don't know whether to puke or cry thinking about it.


Drive it.

Time to lead.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Daughter calls me this morning.

"Daddy, we had an awesome time last night!"

"Ya honey, what did you do?"

"Mom let us stay up until after 10 PM and it was a school night! We even got to watch a new movie Mom bought us and we didn't even brush our teeth!!!!"

Bedtime on school nights is 815 PM. 

I guess my wife felt guilty about the Weekend... Isn't is supposed to be the dad as "Mr. Fun" and the Mom as the strict one?

Another day to document something my wife would have never done a few months ago.

In strange news.... I had a lady chat me up at the gym yesterday. She was very nice, not that attractive, but really sweet. Then I had a gal chat me up at a sports bar last night, she hinted around wondering if I'd be back at the same bar at the same time next week or maybe we could meet up. I told her I was going through a divorce - that didn't even phase her! I declined but said maybe down the road when I'm back to having my feet under me and my head clear but I might be in on a Monday night now and then. I'm in my mid 40's and her in her early 30's, very nice looking. Then I had a female acquaintance that got divorced last year call out of the blue and talk until after midnight.

I'm sure not ready for anything but I have to admit it felt kinda good!


----------



## tom67

In strange news.... I had a lady chat me up at the gym yesterday. She was very nice, not that attractive, but really sweet. Then I had a gal chat me up at a sports bar last night, she hinted around wondering if I'd be back at the same bar at the same time next week or maybe we could meet up. I told her I was going through a divorce - that didn't even phase her! I declined but said maybe down the road when I'm back to having my feet under me and my head clear but I might be in on a Monday night now and then. I'm in my mid 40's and her in her early 30's, very nice looking. Then I had a female acquaintance that got divorced last year call out of the blue and talk until after midnight.

:smthumbup:


----------



## LBHmidwest

In sad news one of my best friends from college is getting divorced. Wow, 21 years later and a month or so apart. How crazy. That person was left too.

Sad news but at least their children are out of HS now.

What the hell do these people think? Goddamn selfish SOB's. Where are their friends, parents, etc. Someone today told me to look at my wife's best friend and her mother. That tells you who she is. Interestingly, she wasn't them for 20+ years but she is today.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> In sad news one of my best friends from college is getting divorced. Wow, 21 years later and a month or so apart. How crazy. That person was left too.
> 
> Sad news but at least their children are out of HS now.
> 
> What the hell do these people think? Goddamn selfish SOB's. Where are their friends, parents, etc. Someone today told me to look at my wife's best friend and her mother. That tells you who she is. Interestingly, she wasn't them for 20+ years but she is today.


Our personalities have many "parts" to them.

We choose which ones we emphasize.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LBH, I am sorry you are here and going through this. You have found a good place here. 

I have no doubt that your wife left because of another man. Looking back, are you SURE that she NEVER brought up things that she was unhappy about in the marriage? I only ask because soooo many men come here whose wives left and they were totally blindsided...however, this is rarely the case. I know first hand because I went through that scenario in my first two marriages...I approached begging for changes to be made, only to be blown off and told that -I- was the one with the problem. Then they were dumbfounded when I said I was done and I left. If you are 100% that this is not the case with your wife, then that further drives me to believe she was cheating. 

I admire the way you are handling things, I think you are doing pretty good. Try not to engage with her as much as possible. As far as your kids go, I have to say that they (at least the older, vocal one) are pretty damn amazing. For your young children to tell you that they know its mommy's fault, not yours....wow. I would suggest to you though, that if they do not wish to call their mother when they are with you, that you dont make them. Give them some power, there. She is the adult and should be the one making the effort to reach out to her children anyway. Not forcing them to call will let them know that you have their backs. Also if I were you, i would be fighting for primary custody, she doesnt sound like she is currently worth a damn as a mom. 

Embrace any anger that comes along, it will help you move forward and heal. Enjoy the female attention you are getting, too, that can only make you feel better about yourself!


----------



## LBHmidwest

3xnocharm - I think she did, in her way, think she said things. I was totally blindsided though.

Her "warning" she said was 5 years ago when our 2nd child was born. By that, I mean two months after the baby was born and she said it one time one night. I honestly thought it was post partum depression. That is the only time in 21 years she expressed any significant level of unhappiness. She also said she wouldn't consider counseling because I told her at that time I wasn't interested in it. Honestly, I don't remember talking about it. It was more of a I came home from work, she was in a rage, hadn't slept the night before, and talked about being overwhelmed and leaving. I hadn't thought of that night in 5 years.

She did make comments about not being appreciated or thanked - rarely but a few times a year. I gave my wife jewelry, surprised her with flowers, gave thoughtful gifts and we were regularly intimate and excitingly so - not vanilla. I had 5 huge boxes of flower vases in the house from over the last 15 years that she had kept. I'm talking 3 x 4 x 3' boxes.

She commented about struggling with the house and cabin and I suggested we hire a cleaning lady. I was wrong, I should have done more.

At times, not often, she talked about being a little overwhelmed with her schedule. I suggested she cut back on some of the things she was doing, in all honesty she was trying to do too much for too many not to mention her kids and family. 

Through all of this year her family has had an incredible amount of turmoil and she was the defacto stabilizing force. In late October she wanted more time for herself. I suggested she use our family college tickets to a football game so she could go with friends. She often went out with friends, book club, etc. She was not tied to the house.

She told me she should have communicated her dissatisfaction and "numbness" to our marriage. She said she was tired of changing for me (I had no idea what I was making her change and still mostly don't).

She said she didn't want to work on anything because when we dated 25 years ago I said I didn't want to be a couple that broke up and got back together.

If anything - I did ask her to change. The major sign was going to sleep early and sleeping far too much on weekends. I didn't realize she was avoiding me, she said it was for working out early and being healthy. In September she started to lose a tremendous amount of weight and I started asking about depression. She would not tell me she was on a very expensive high caffeine weight loss pills. I have spoken to doctors and this was probably a cause of the strange sleep and other habits that started to manifest then - at least part of it.

We had bought a second home last spring debt free. She told all of her friends and me into November this was the "Best Summer and Year of her Life". I've had 20 people tell me this since she left. We started a 100k house remodel/expansion. We were talking about me taking a better job (out of the area and I think this might have been a problem looking back - she wouldn't have been 20 minutes from her mother, more like 2 hours).

The family thing cannot be overstated, she had an ugly year.

I'm trying no to engage, I asked her to consider mediation and I was supposed to get a response yesterday and didn't. I did, however, receive a couple of things in the mail and we live blocks apart now. Odd, but OK.

It's a good idea on the calling. It would be tough to do that though, we have just never answered each other's phone calls since she left (she started this). IF I've wanted to talk to her it's taken as many as 3 times to get her to take the phone from the kids. She will hang up, I call back, etc. I haven't even tried in a month nor do I want to.

I do think they should call at least once. I have the common courtesy to make sure the girls are together, focused and if they don't bring up calling I give them 5 minutes lead time to think of stuff they want to say or ask. She often has them call from grocery stores, while she is with family and they are distracted by cousins, etc. call right before they will lose a tower. She knows this drives me nuts. I won't fight back like this though, I will keep the high road. My wife, until a few months ago, I thought was fantastic - just a far too typical hover parent.

I hope.... she's just in a phase of stress, move, etc. Time will tell. I defintely want split and worry what she is going through. I'm certain with medical backing she did or has had some type of mental break - how significant is hard to determine. This is based on decision making, fast speech patterns, not remember facts as facts, odd behaviors as a mother, isolating herself from anyone but her mother, etc. I'm not a mental health professional but numerous friends of ours are.

I actually got asked out last night to meet someone to eat (apparently things have changed since the 1980s!). I semi declined. I left it for sometime in the future. I would not be a guy I would want my daughter to date right now and I don't want to enflame the divorce further. I am lonely and miss companionship - I'm working out, taking the Divorce Care classes, attending church regulary, going to IC, reading, participating here. I may not end up a better guy but I want to try. The lady was very kind and said she wanted to be friends anyway and I could use one. I could. This person is someone that is a friend of a friend type of thing, nice lady.

If I understand an "emotional" vs. a "logical" divorce I think that is what my wife is doing. A lot of circumstances came together at once and she felt she had to leave me - I was pushing hard on her sleep and wanting a better marriage (I told her I didn't want to be roommates - she turned that recently into me saying she was a roommate to me - lots of little twists like that from her mouth and pen). Her family was in disarray and I think they saw an opportunity to get her back. I do think she is having some type of relationship - emotional and or physical. Her best friend is a train wreck that moved back to the area and they spent a ton of time texting and calls, 90 mins, 60 minutes, 100 texts a week before she left.

Plus, I know I can be bullheaded, I was focused on her changing and I thought we had a 9 out of 10 marriage. I really had no idea that our marriage was in jeopardy, I thought we did need to talk and couldn't get her to do so. When she did, she had already planned the divorce.

The hardest part for me is we had and I have a very large group of friends and acquaintances, only one has ever expressed to me that they saw it coming. My wife had told her a few months ago she was numb to the marriage and wanted a new life. She told the friend I was too controlling. My wife did the finances. She went all over the state coaching, sports, friends, I never checked up on her, asked her a ton of questions, etc. I should have supported her at one public event this year and I didn't feel well and didn't go (I should have soldiered it).

I know, long answer. My wife won't even speak to any of our friends. She will be polite if they try to talk to her and usually walk away or quickly get away.

I am a lost lost person who lost the love of his life. I don't mean to have her on a pedestal, she was at times frigid, not affectionate in small ways and wanted things her way - she loved control of the family. She also has a high level of OCD but I'd learned a long time ago to roll with it.

On one hand, I want her to be free to chase whatever this happiness is she wants.

On the other hand, she should have communicated or did a lot better job of talking about the possible demise of a marriage with little kids involved. 

I won't figure it out and it doesn't matter. I do think another guy whispered in her ear, she is the euphoria of that - losing weight, finding false happiness, etc. I think guilt is wracking her soul too.

As a mediator I talked to said, "Your wife has purchased and/or renovated 3 homes in 8 months. That is not normal or rational behavior on any level, it speaks of her need for some new security in the second half of her life and a major depression she thinks she can spend her way out of." 

Who knows. All i knew is I haven't seen my kids since Monday morning and I'm dying inside the more i'm without them. Some of it is about her but I think in a few years I'll probably have a significant other and another set of kids to look after that aren't my own.

If I can make it. I'm hanging on to the cliff like a rock climber right now.


----------



## smallsteps

LBHmidwest said:


> In sad news one of my best friends from college is getting divorced. Wow, 21 years later and a month or so apart. How crazy. That person was left too.
> 
> Sad news but at least their children are out of HS now.
> 
> What the hell do these people think? Goddamn selfish SOB's. Where are their friends, parents, etc. Someone today told me to look at my wife's best friend and her mother. That tells you who she is. Interestingly, she wasn't them for 20+ years but she is today.


LB 

When everything first happened to me I thought I was the only one that this happened to. I felt alone and sort of isolated.

The thing is as time went on and I spent time here and spoke to others around me I began to realize I WASN'T alone at all. It happens quite frequently. It's sad but it does. It actually helped me to realize I wasn't the only one this happened to.

None of it makes sense sometimes. They have their issues. Most of the time they think nothing is wrong with them and continue to go through life just as they had before. I've come to realize this in my own case.

The nice thing is we have the opportunity to acknowledge our shortcomings and work on fixing them. We can become better people through all of this.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH,

Your story and mine are remarkably similiar. Long story short, my wife of 22 years started her second affair (her first in 2004) in Oct of 2013. We have two girls, one 21 and a senior in High School, and a 16 year old living with me. It felt like my world was ending...but it's not. Through a lot of self-reflection and counseling, it's her narcissistic ways that I can't control or change. I'm focusing on me. The hard part is not wanting to beat the crap out of the POSOM. 

This blog has helped me immensely. While it is sad that so many men have similiar stories, it is also somewhat reassuring. I too know that I'll survive this and the right woman is out there but I still struggle with my insecurity/ego issues.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Never open mail at 10 pm after a long day. 

WAWSTBEX (aka Blitzkrieg) sent a huge pile of bills for the girls from January. Most of which are extracurriculars they never did before the break up and I wasn't asked about whether they should do.

I told her I was happy to pay the percentage of bills based on our daycare/health income split % that was determined in the temp settlement and could get her the check right away. Plus I'd be more than happy to make this a formal change in our child support agreement going forward (I pay a set amount with health and daycare as additional costs based on income levels). I offered to let her attorney and mine know she wanted a new agreement based on her bill payment requests and I would be honored to send them PDF copies of the bills along with her request for payment. She tried to call immediately and I didn't answer.

Bet she's trying to figure out what I'm saying


----------



## LBHmidwest

To everyone reading, posting follow ups, praying for my girls. I appreciate it.

I had a good day. A long time female friend, smart as a tack and tough as nails, took me to lunch. She gave me a lot of good listening time, advice and just plain friendship and hugs. So many friends say such nice things. This lady was great. Her jist was ya, you were awful. All you did was take your wife on 2-3 vacations a year, bought a dream house, fixing yours, don't drink, treated her great, super kids, respected by your colleagues, great friends, always treated your wife nice at any function I saw you at. 

I feel like it takes 10 friends to knock down one tiny thing my ex said but having a mom and wife of 20 years cross examine me and start laughing at most of the stuff was an eye opener. This lady is the friend we all wish we had - smart, tough, loving, great mom, great wife, everyone likes her even though she has a lot of personality. Most of my close friends are male and having a female that knows us both helped a lot.

I have so so many great "real life" friends that have done so much.

Many of you here have too. THANKS


----------



## ICLH

LBHmidwest said:


> I am a lost lost person who lost the love of his life. I don't mean to have her on a pedestal, she was at times frigid, not affectionate in small ways and wanted things her way - she loved control of the family. She also has a high level of OCD but I'd learned a long time ago to roll with it.
> 
> On one hand, I want her to be free to chase whatever this happiness is she wants.
> 
> On the other hand, she should have communicated or did a lot better job of talking about the possible demise of a marriage with little kids involved.


I can definitely relate to all the above completely.


----------



## LongWalk

You never went through the phone records to pin down who OM was. Did you find that work too depressing?

Once you find out his identity, do you think it will help or hurt your 180 efforts. Battling about the divorce terms has got you thinking about her way too much.


----------



## beyondrepair

LBHmidwest said:


> 3xnocharm - I think she did, in her way, think she said things. I was totally blindsided though.
> 
> Her "warning" she said was 5 years ago when our 2nd child was born. By that, I mean two months after the baby was born and she said it one time one night. I honestly thought it was post partum depression. That is the only time in 21 years she expressed any significant level of unhappiness. She also said she wouldn't consider counseling because I told her at that time I wasn't interested in it. Honestly, I don't remember talking about it. It was more of a I came home from work, she was in a rage, hadn't slept the night before, and talked about being overwhelmed and leaving. I hadn't thought of that night in 5 years.
> 
> She did make comments about not being appreciated or thanked - rarely but a few times a year. I gave my wife jewelry, surprised her with flowers, gave thoughtful gifts and we were regularly intimate and excitingly so - not vanilla. I had 5 huge boxes of flower vases in the house from over the last 15 years that she had kept. I'm talking 3 x 4 x 3' boxes.
> 
> She commented about struggling with the house and cabin and I suggested we hire a cleaning lady. I was wrong, I should have done more.
> 
> At times, not often, she talked about being a little overwhelmed with her schedule. I suggested she cut back on some of the things she was doing, in all honesty she was trying to do too much for too many not to mention her kids and family.
> 
> Through all of this year her family has had an incredible amount of turmoil and she was the defacto stabilizing force. In late October she wanted more time for herself. I suggested she use our family college tickets to a football game so she could go with friends. She often went out with friends, book club, etc. She was not tied to the house.
> 
> She told me she should have communicated her dissatisfaction and "numbness" to our marriage. She said she was tired of changing for me (I had no idea what I was making her change and still mostly don't).
> 
> She said she didn't want to work on anything because when we dated 25 years ago I said I didn't want to be a couple that broke up and got back together.
> 
> If anything - I did ask her to change. The major sign was going to sleep early and sleeping far too much on weekends. I didn't realize she was avoiding me, she said it was for working out early and being healthy. In September she started to lose a tremendous amount of weight and I started asking about depression. She would not tell me she was on a very expensive high caffeine weight loss pills. I have spoken to doctors and this was probably a cause of the strange sleep and other habits that started to manifest then - at least part of it.
> 
> We had bought a second home last spring debt free. She told all of her friends and me into November this was the "Best Summer and Year of her Life". I've had 20 people tell me this since she left. We started a 100k house remodel/expansion. We were talking about me taking a better job (out of the area and I think this might have been a problem looking back - she wouldn't have been 20 minutes from her mother, more like 2 hours).
> 
> The family thing cannot be overstated, she had an ugly year.
> 
> I'm trying no to engage, I asked her to consider mediation and I was supposed to get a response yesterday and didn't. I did, however, receive a couple of things in the mail and we live blocks apart now. Odd, but OK.
> 
> It's a good idea on the calling. It would be tough to do that though, we have just never answered each other's phone calls since she left (she started this). IF I've wanted to talk to her it's taken as many as 3 times to get her to take the phone from the kids. She will hang up, I call back, etc. I haven't even tried in a month nor do I want to.
> 
> I do think they should call at least once. I have the common courtesy to make sure the girls are together, focused and if they don't bring up calling I give them 5 minutes lead time to think of stuff they want to say or ask. She often has them call from grocery stores, while she is with family and they are distracted by cousins, etc. call right before they will lose a tower. She knows this drives me nuts. I won't fight back like this though, I will keep the high road. My wife, until a few months ago, I thought was fantastic - just a far too typical hover parent.
> 
> I hope.... she's just in a phase of stress, move, etc. Time will tell. I defintely want split and worry what she is going through. I'm certain with medical backing she did or has had some type of mental break - how significant is hard to determine. This is based on decision making, fast speech patterns, not remember facts as facts, odd behaviors as a mother, isolating herself from anyone but her mother, etc. I'm not a mental health professional but numerous friends of ours are.
> 
> I actually got asked out last night to meet someone to eat (apparently things have changed since the 1980s!). I semi declined. I left it for sometime in the future. I would not be a guy I would want my daughter to date right now and I don't want to enflame the divorce further. I am lonely and miss companionship - I'm working out, taking the Divorce Care classes, attending church regulary, going to IC, reading, participating here. I may not end up a better guy but I want to try. The lady was very kind and said she wanted to be friends anyway and I could use one. I could. This person is someone that is a friend of a friend type of thing, nice lady.
> 
> If I understand an "emotional" vs. a "logical" divorce I think that is what my wife is doing. A lot of circumstances came together at once and she felt she had to leave me - I was pushing hard on her sleep and wanting a better marriage (I told her I didn't want to be roommates - she turned that recently into me saying she was a roommate to me - lots of little twists like that from her mouth and pen). Her family was in disarray and I think they saw an opportunity to get her back. I do think she is having some type of relationship - emotional and or physical. Her best friend is a train wreck that moved back to the area and they spent a ton of time texting and calls, 90 mins, 60 minutes, 100 texts a week before she left.
> 
> Plus, I know I can be bullheaded, I was focused on her changing and I thought we had a 9 out of 10 marriage. I really had no idea that our marriage was in jeopardy, I thought we did need to talk and couldn't get her to do so. When she did, she had already planned the divorce.
> 
> The hardest part for me is we had and I have a very large group of friends and acquaintances, only one has ever expressed to me that they saw it coming. My wife had told her a few months ago she was numb to the marriage and wanted a new life. She told the friend I was too controlling. My wife did the finances. She went all over the state coaching, sports, friends, I never checked up on her, asked her a ton of questions, etc. I should have supported her at one public event this year and I didn't feel well and didn't go (I should have soldiered it).
> 
> I know, long answer. My wife won't even speak to any of our friends. She will be polite if they try to talk to her and usually walk away or quickly get away.
> 
> I am a lost lost person who lost the love of his life. I don't mean to have her on a pedestal, she was at times frigid, not affectionate in small ways and wanted things her way - she loved control of the family. She also has a high level of OCD but I'd learned a long time ago to roll with it.
> 
> On one hand, I want her to be free to chase whatever this happiness is she wants.
> 
> On the other hand, she should have communicated or did a lot better job of talking about the possible demise of a marriage with little kids involved.
> 
> I won't figure it out and it doesn't matter. I do think another guy whispered in her ear, she is the euphoria of that - losing weight, finding false happiness, etc. I think guilt is wracking her soul too.
> 
> As a mediator I talked to said, "Your wife has purchased and/or renovated 3 homes in 8 months. That is not normal or rational behavior on any level, it speaks of her need for some new security in the second half of her life and a major depression she thinks she can spend her way out of."
> 
> Who knows. All i knew is I haven't seen my kids since Monday morning and I'm dying inside the more i'm without them. Some of it is about her but I think in a few years I'll probably have a significant other and another set of kids to look after that aren't my own.
> 
> If I can make it. I'm hanging on to the cliff like a rock climber right now.


LBH, our XW's sound remarkably similar.

Married 11 years, just signed divorce papers a week ago.

Due to having a demanding job, I only have my kids sleeping over two times a week.

I can totally relate to your situation, felt blindsided myself.

But it does get easier.


:smthumbup:


----------



## Pictureless

LongWalk said:


> You never went through the phone records to pin down who OM was. Did you find that work too depressing?
> 
> Once you find out his identity, do you think it will help or hurt your 180 efforts. Battling about the divorce terms has got you thinking about her way too much.


What's the point? In his case and in mine, finding out who the POSOM is pointless. Our wives have checked out and gone dark. Except for divorce details there is NC. 

Mine agreed to pay for the divorce and it's already been filed less than a month after R failed. 

Clearly neither wives are grieving the loss of the relationship. 

Some don't. Some can just switch it off one day and the next day start a new relationship as if you were dead and your relationship never happened. The grass is greener. It's easy to leave if you were never in the relationship in the first place.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> What's the point? In his case and in mine, finding out who the POSOM is pointless.


I completely disagree.

There are times a man needs to stand up to feel good about himself.


----------



## LBHmidwest

LongWalk said:


> You never went through the phone records to pin down who OM was. Did you find that work too depressing?
> 
> Once you find out his identity, do you think it will help or hurt your 180 efforts. Battling about the divorce terms has got you thinking about her way too much.


I never bought spokeo or those things, I probably should. So much conflicting advice. In my heart and head, I know she strayed. A huge issue is that she doesn't have 5, 10, 15 numbers, it's wayyyy more than that she calls often. If you want to know why, PM me but I don't want to narrow my/her identity here. Suffice it to say, there are reasons she could call men 20 times a month that has nothing to do with an affair.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> I completely disagree.
> 
> There are times a man needs to stand up to feel good about himself.


I understand but that's not going to get her back. I know she's lying but I have no proof. She brought the divorce immediately after dumping and has gone NC. What now? Go over their while hes doing her...call her, email,.beg????

Its over.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> I understand but that's not going to get her back.


Who cares?


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Who cares?


Exactly. So why bother trying to expose the POSOM? What's your point?


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Exactly. So why bother trying to expose the POSOM? What's your point?


Wanting to get her back and standing up for yourself are two entirely different things.

Not sure why you're confused.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Wanting to get her back and standing up for yourself are two entirely different things.
> 
> Not sure why you're confused.


 I'm not confused I'm upset about being lied to and used. I don't want her back. I can't refute her lies when she's gone, there's NC, and she obviously doesn't give a bleep about me.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> I'm not confused I'm upset about being lied to and used. I don't want her back. I can't refute her lies when she's gone, there's NC, and she obviously doesn't give a bleep about me.


Not sure I can help you understand the difference.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Not sure I can help you understand the difference.


I guess not. A person can't "stand up" for themself when they've been bulldozed by selfish liar.


----------



## beyondrepair

I exposed my XW to both families before divorce was final.

You can call me vengeful, but for me it was an act of justice after all the blameshifting, gaslighting and never owning up to anything.

I'm not expecting to get her back either.


----------



## Conrad

beyondrepair said:


> I exposed my XW to both families before divorce was final.
> 
> You can call me vengeful, but for me it was an act of justice after all the blameshifting, gaslighting and never owning up to anything.
> 
> I'm not expecting to get her back either.


Good man.

There are times you must stand up and be counted to fully love yourself.


----------



## beyondrepair

Thank you.

Although while talking with my Xinlaws I realized blood is indeed much thicker than water. :nono:


----------



## Conrad

beyondrepair said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Although while talking with my Xinlaws I realized blood is indeed much thicker than water. :nono:


We all find that out.

I actually advise people to expose to in-laws and then quit talking to them, forever.


----------



## synthetic

beyondrepair said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Although while talking with my Xinlaws I realized blood is indeed much thicker than water. :nono:


blood is also messier than water. All future interactions between them will be polluted by a gooey redish thing called 'mistrust'.

when u stumble upon a house of cards, kick it


----------



## beyondrepair

synthetic said:


> blood is also messier than water. All future interactions between them will be polluted by a gooey redish thing called 'mistrust'.
> 
> when u stumble upon a house of cards, kick it


Right on the money. :lol:


----------



## Mo42

LBH-- do not turn down the companioship out of regard for you stbxw's feelings for the love of all things Holy. Go ahead and enjoy yourself, hang out with some ladies now and then. The sooner you do this the sooner you can get over that last hump-- the part of you that, while you are on here saying she is gone forever and you dont want her back, still believes and wants her back.


----------



## Pictureless

Mo42 said:


> LBH-- do not turn down the companioship out of regard for you stbxw's feelings for the love of all things Holy. Go ahead and enjoy yourself, hang out with some ladies now and then. The sooner you do this the sooner you can get over that last hump-- the part of you that, while you are on here saying she is gone forever and you dont want her back, still believes and wants her back.


The way to get over the old lady is to get on top of a new one. :smthumbup:


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks, all of you, sincerely.

I had a pretty good day. Honestly, i'm ashamed I lost my voice a couple of times but not bad.

Wife never would respond to my offer to cease child support payments in lieu of her request for me to also pay a bunch of bills. Ok, let me say this, not smart sometimes. I loved her but sometimes I was shocked at little weird lapses in common sense.

Get a call about insurance. She bought a new vehicle and is all over me to sign title on the one she's keeping. My long time insurer is calling pressuring me to sign all this new paperwork because now that the divorce is going they have to untangle a bunch of things.

My response...

I'm happy to sign the titles.

I won't sign the insurance stuff. They literally can't believe me. I say why should I? She stiffed me about a grand last November not paying my insurance and plates but paid these two out of our accounts right before jetting plus she had a bunch of work done on her vehicle I paid for. I found out in December and had to pay it all.

They didn't know that.... So I say she owes me money. Period. No way I'm signing off, I want the rebates and the plate rebates - half. End of story. They say it isn't their problem. I agree and tell them goodbye.

My phone rings 15 times in next 5 minutes - Blitzkrieg calling every 20 seconds. No message  I never returned her calls from last night either.

30 minutes later, she starts calling again. I'm still busy. I text her that I'm busy for 4 hours yet.

Had to be where she works so I spoke to her in person. It was worth the price of admission! Fury is now funny to watch, I don't care. I told her this is it - no more. I'm done, it's a business deal. I've tried to be nice, reasonable and fair but it's a two way street. Besides, no response on mediation. She offers up mediation won't work for her. I said, no problem, thanks for never telling me. . I told her I wanted to be divorced in 2014 but 2016 is fine with me. The attorneys will love it more but so what. She is looking at me like she can't believe it. She says why would we be married 2-3 years from now. I said if she wants the attorneys and courts to handle it I'm going through her stuff with a fine tooth comb, I'm in no rush. I mention 2-3 people she knows that went over 3 years with less stuff to sort out. I gotta be honest, her look was priceless.

She just left from getting the kids and I got a check plus a letter with a bunch of clarifications/answers to recent issues she wouldn't address.  I'm not trying to talk to her, these are things that have to be done - kid time issues, house items, and she blames her lawyer for not understanding child support and trying to get support and bill payments. Ya.... right.

Also got a lot more hate for my attorney from her. Maybe I should keep him though I hate him too.

Best thing was she was rattling on about something because she was nervous and I looked at the clock. It was 5 minutes BEFORE the time she was supposed to be here tonight and we'd been doing stuff for five minutes. She said her clock must have been fast. No problem I said, Iphones are noted for that and it's just one more thing to document for her breaches of our temporary agreement along with child support and some other items. She said I was kidding. I assured her I wasn't.

I'm finding an honest but cruel streak. Feels good and I know it's bad to feel good about it but I like it anyway.


----------



## Conrad

Why are you willing to sign anything?

Keep the attorney.

That sensation you're feeling between your legs will increase.... I promise.

They've been checked out for awhile.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm signing because at least informally we agreed to the vehicle swap. It may change but i'm happy for her if her mom buys her something new. I'm sure I'll see a $800/month payment next week when discovery hits. I traded off my vehicle with a payment to get close to hers in value. I wanted to go liquid.

I notice in a new email she pulled same trick, answered/responded to half the things we need to solve.

Tomorrow, I say all or none. I can live with it either way if she can.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> Why are you willing to sign anything?
> 
> Keep the attorney.
> 
> That sensation you're feeling between your legs will increase.... I promise.
> 
> They've been checked out for awhile.


:iagree:


----------



## Conrad

I wouldn't sign anything.

She kept her word, right?

Respond in kind.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> I wouldn't sign anything.
> 
> She kept her word, right?
> 
> Respond in kind.


Take your time respond, don't react.


----------



## LBHmidwest

simple, i got paid for prepaid insurance and plates

i brought it up a few weeks ago she was on my largess

she laughed, I said OK... it will sort out

Didn't know she was trying to trade. Shows up with new one tonight, like most things, she's trying to be cute and ramrod stuff at the last second.

I have a check and I'm off her vehicle. Win win I never had her on the one I got. SHould be about even. In fact, I think she up bought though I suspect her mom bought it too, be interesting to see. That or a $1,000 month payment for her expense sheet.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Good Divorce Care Email today

Forgive Yourself
Day 48

You become your own greatest enemy when you do not forgive yourself.

“Sometimes it’s hard to forgive yourself after divorce because you don’t want to admit you did anything wrong,” says Rose Sweet, “and because the other person is usually pointing the finger at you or other people are putting you down for your failure in the marriage. That’s giving God-like power to all those people who are putting you down. Just stop. Go to God and say, ‘Lord, show me what I’ve done wrong. Help me seek forgiveness, and help me let go of everyone else’s opinion of me.’”

“The most difficult person to forgive may be yourself,” says Doug Easterday, “because you were there when you made mistakes, and you remember your attitude and the inappropriate things you have done, said, or even thought. But forgiving yourself is such an important arena. It means that you choose to walk in the higher realm.”

Forgiveness is a process that will take time, and it is also a choice. Decide that you will forgive yourself just as God forgives you, even when you don’t feel you deserve it. One awesome characteristic of God is that you don’t have to measure up to certain standards to deserve His love. You don’t have to follow certain rules or act in a particular way. He loves you no matter what you have done. God sees you inside and out, and He continues to extend His love and forgiveness to you.

“I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name” (1 John 2:12).

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

Thank you, Lord, that You have forgiven my sins and cleansed me inside, fresh and new. Amen.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Keychains

Not long ago I had keys to many buildings, many vehicles, many doors.

Now I have keychain I don't recognize.

Kinda hurts

More keys to go


----------



## LBHmidwest

Wife calls me hun last week. This week she brings the kids home to my house on accident after work.

Family member of hers calls me, some family members are concerned she's on drugs because of mannerisms, sleep and weight loss (where were they 3 months ago!).

Friend of MIL says MIL is telling everyone that she now gets to see her grandkids every day. Rich, she wouldn't even take them when we offered before because she was too busy. MIL is taking credit for convincing wife to get rid of me.

Wife is up to 40+ pounds off, she wasn't heavy to start.

I've went totally dark again. 4 emails from her, no response from me this week.

Kids come home tonight. They say mom and grandma say she'll be divorced in 4 months. Guess they are on a faster time frame than I am.

Kids were up on a school night last week 3 hours past bedtime.

Served as waitresses at a party for grandma til 1 AM this weekend. They served drinks, beer, etc. Great, they are 5 and 8.

I don't even know what to do anymore.

Sent in over 1,000 pages for her attorney's discovery request.

More people come out of the woodwork to support me and criticize her. The new car really sticks out.

Found out how much money she took last November. It was more and earlier than I thought. But... I did a lot of research and feel better about how I'll come out financially.

Kids say mom got a new computer too. Glad I gave her 1 of the two laptops and both kindles. 3 people, 4 devices. Hope it's enough.

I'm cutting back and she's spending $$$ like it's water from a tap.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Wife calls me hun last week. This week she brings the kids home to my house on accident after work.
> 
> Family member of hers calls me, some family members are concerned she's on drugs because of mannerisms, sleep and weight loss (where were they 3 months ago!).
> 
> Friend of MIL says MIL is telling everyone that she now gets to see her grandkids every day. Rich, she wouldn't even take them when we offered before because she was too busy. MIL is taking credit for convincing wife to get rid of me.
> 
> Wife is up to 40+ pounds off, she wasn't heavy to start.
> 
> I've went totally dark again. 4 emails from her, no response from me this week.
> 
> Kids come home tonight. They say mom and grandma say she'll be divorced in 4 months. Guess they are on a faster time frame than I am.
> 
> Kids were up on a school night last week 3 hours past bedtime.
> 
> Served as waitresses at a party for grandma til 1 AM this weekend. They served drinks, beer, etc. Great, they are 5 and 8.
> 
> I don't even know what to do anymore.
> 
> Sent in over 1,000 pages for her attorney's discovery request.
> 
> More people come out of the woodwork to support me and criticize her. The new car really sticks out.
> 
> Found out how much money she took last November. It was more and earlier than I thought. But... I did a lot of research and feel better about how I'll come out financially.
> 
> Kids say mom got a new computer too. Glad I gave her 1 of the two laptops and both kindles. 3 people, 4 devices. Hope it's enough.
> 
> I'm cutting back and she's spending $$$ like it's water from a tap.


Sounds like your eyes are opening.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I was thinking boyfriend.

I'm thinking it's mom friend. Mom has two of her four children estranged and my wife had been 40% gone for 20 years.

Now they are together every day.

I'm not sure about the annals of divorce how an affair with a mother ranks, but it's starting to look like that more than anything.

Two narcissists spending time together every day. Only one with money.

This will last forever.

If there isn't a boyfriend. I can't figure the weight loss and 2nd phone though.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> I was thinking boyfriend.
> 
> I'm thinking it's mom friend. Mom has two of her four children estranged and my wife had been 40% gone for 20 years.
> 
> Now they are together every day.
> 
> I'm not sure about the annals of divorce how an affair with a mother ranks, but it's starting to look like that more than anything.
> 
> Two narcissists spending time together every day. Only one with money.
> 
> This will last forever.
> 
> If there isn't a boyfriend. I can't figure the weight loss and 2nd phone though.


Stay the course. Be strong. Why no longer matters. The sooner the legal cords are cut the better off you will be emotionally. Strive for the morning when you wake up and your first thought is about you.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Keys back.

Her stuff is gone

Relatively painless.

Honestly, I just can't stand to look at her. I really can't. I try to maintain eye contact but I just feel sorry for her. I'm sure it comes across badly to her but I just feel like whoever I knew is gone and the Devil signed the contract with her.

I've been no contact still. I really like it. Liberating. I walked off today and let her sort. She had a big pile. I asked about a couple of things, shrugged my shoulders and said enjoy.

I couldn't name 10 things she took. A friend made a good point after she left (he monitored). His comment was 1/2 what she took were unopened wedding gifts from 20 years ago and the other half were all family heirlooms whether they were or not (her selection of 1/2 was always the newest or most expensive - usually with a family member giving it or the money. Kinda funny since we got so little. Must be a way for her to feel better about it.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH,

I wish I was where you're at. I too have been in a 20+ year relationship, High School sweethearts, and she left me and our 16 year old daughter for another guy. I found out last Oct and know that there is no reconciliation. But I can't shake the desire to hurt the POSOM and I regressed yesterday when I saw her in POSOM's car after dropping off our daughter. Keep up the good work. Eventually, hopefully, i'll be there too.


----------



## LBHmidwest

AFPhoenix said:


> LBH,
> 
> I wish I was where you're at. I too have been in a 20+ year relationship, High School sweethearts, and she left me and our 16 year old daughter for another guy. I found out last Oct and know that there is no reconciliation. But I can't shake the desire to hurt the POSOM and I regressed yesterday when I saw her in POSOM's car after dropping off our daughter. Keep up the good work. Eventually, hopefully, i'll be there too.


Been reading your thread. So sorry.

I wouldn't wish me on anyone. I cried in front of a 20 year friend an hour later today. Suddenly the finality hit me and my daughters wanted me to take them on a trip we take this weekend every year.

A few months ago I could have went with the cash in my pocket and now I can't afford the gas and hotels.

Of course she drives off in her new 45k vehicle with new phone, new computer, new house, new clothes, new look. My friend says I'm doing ok. Ya. My house is destroyed, I traded back a lot of years and miles in vehicles.

But. I have the kids right now and that's what counts.

It's funny. I could care less about crystal and silver but that's what she honed in on. She'll never use it and our kids will have it anyway. Have fun storing it.

I'm no better, I'm just trying to convince myself I am getting better every day and faking it. But, it sorta works.


----------



## Pictureless

It's not an overnight thing. It's going to take some time. Her behavior is cruel and inhuman. How can she do that? Because she checked out. She's done. Be like her: forget and move on. Because she don't care.

I know it goes against your nature because you are a kind, caring, loving person. But it's no longer about her. There is no more us. It's you now. Care about you.


----------



## just got it 55

beyondrepair said:


> I exposed my XW to both families before divorce was final.
> 
> You can call me vengeful, but for me it was an act of *justice* after all the blameshifting, gaslighting and never owning up to anything.
> 
> I'm not expecting to get her back either.


Powerful word


----------



## LBHmidwest

Always something. Trying to decide why I'm paying child support. Kids don't even have clothes that fit. It would take away from her fun money though.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Had kids for almost a week. They asked to call mom once. They share more and more.... sounds like I'm the dad and mom. She's a lady they have to stay with. It just makes no sense.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Hey, I don't have to buy a Valentines gift and/or meal, trip, etc. for the first time in 25 years!


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH, the fact that I'm not buying my STBXW a gift but he's buying her one makes me sad...and angry!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## synthetic

AFPhoenix said:


> LBH, the fact that I'm not buying my STBXW a gift but he's buying her one makes me sad...and angry!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wait a few months and you'll laugh at this post.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> LBH, the fact that I'm not buying my STBXW a gift but he's buying her one makes me sad...and angry!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You enjoy buying gifts for ingrates?


----------



## AFPhoenix

No Conrad, I don't like to buy gifts for ingrates, or *****$. I will, however, miss the enjoyment that I had for buying or doing nice things for the woman that I loved for the past 22 years. It makes me angry that I was so easily replaced while I feel like i'm in shambles. I hope it gets easier.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> No Conrad, I don't like to buy gifts for ingrates, or *****$. I will, however, miss the enjoyment that I had for buying or doing nice things for the woman that I loved for the past 22 years. It makes me angry that I was so easily replaced while I feel like i'm in shambles. I hope it gets easier.


Buy yourself something.

On her birthday, I upgraded my audio system - majorly.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Valentine's Day hurts.

I don't care what anyone says. My first one alone since 1987


----------



## AFPhoenix

I know it sucks LBH....I know. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. Should I stay in or go out? What are you going to do?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I have to travel to work. I was going to meet an old friend that got divorced a few years ago for a drink but that got cancelled for a meeting. I was bummed. I kinda like her.

Yes, I know... I shouldn't date. But harmless fun on Valentine's Day if it rolled that way seemed appropo

How about you?


----------



## Pictureless

synthetic said:


> Wait a few months and you'll laugh at this post.


5 days before she dumped me I bought her and her kid new jackets for an early Christmas present. 
3 days before she dumped me I took them out to eat.

After she dumped me she wouldn't even give me back the can opener that I owned and bought before I met her. She said I had no use for it.

Yup, come back in a few weeks and see how you feel then.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> I know it sucks LBH....I know. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. Should I stay in or go out? What are you going to do?


Go out. Go anywhere. I am. I don't care. Why sit around thinking about what she's doing?

I talk and say anything and everything to all females now: young, old, married, single, etc etc etc. Who cares. You can do that now if you want. Or don't want. For me it's just like batting practice; keeping my swing ready for game play.

Go out to the local place tonight. Have one or two drinks and nurse them. Say hi to everyone that looks at you. Don't look away. Get a yummy appetizer and watch the tv behind the bar. Ignore the couples and any singles unless they make contact first. If someone does talk to you, talk about what you want to talk about. It's you time.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> I have to travel to work. I was going to meet an old friend that got divorced a few years ago for a drink but that got cancelled for a meeting. I was bummed. I kinda like her.
> 
> Yes, I know... I shouldn't date. But harmless fun on Valentine's Day if it rolled that way seemed appropo
> 
> How about you?


Are you a decent singer?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Conrad said:


> Are you a decent singer?


I have a feeling a punch line is coming.

But no, I only have a voice for cattle (you rural people get it).


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> I have a feeling a punch line is coming.
> 
> But no, I only have a voice for cattle (you rural people get it).


If you were, karaoke is a great way to meet people.

It's what I did.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I just realized the "Real Housewives" have not been on in my house for 3 months.... AWESOME!

Little melancholy today. Love me some Diana Krall

Diana Krall - Wide River To Cross (Lyric Video) - YouTube


----------



## Pictureless

Light shining brightly here. I'm making a good day.

I got some feel good Motown on now while I cyber shop! I'm going to treat myself to something today.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I bought myself a nice pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones yesterday. And I actually appreciated the gift!


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I bought myself a nice pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones yesterday. And I actually appreciated the gift!


Bravo!


----------



## ICLH

LBHmidwest said:


> I just realized the "Real Housewives" have not been on in my house for 3 months.... AWESOME!
> 
> Little melancholy today. Love me some Diana Krall
> 
> Diana Krall - Wide River To Cross (Lyric Video) - YouTube


The truth finally comes out. There is your answer. The Real Housewives was the influence behind your wife leaving. I'm serious.


----------



## IronWine29

If I was going to send a request to my ex for Valentine's Day...

Damien Rice - Rootless Tree - YouTube


----------



## LBHmidwest

IronWine29 said:


> If I was going to send a request to my ex for Valentine's Day...
> 
> Damien Rice - Rootless Tree - YouTube


Didn't see that coming at the 1 minute mark! holy schnikies!


----------



## IronWine29

Best. Breakup. Song. Ever.

I got more:

Bloc Party - One Month Off - YouTube


----------



## LBHmidwest

Go to church today, shockingly my wife and children are there. They were supposed to be gone overnight at a hotel out of town before an event for the kids today. My D8 and I were looking up churches for them to attend the other night as she doesn't like to miss. I thought it was funny, my wife only attends church on the weekends she has the girls.

Today's readings and sermon were on divorce, only reasons divorce is acceptable,seeking forgiveness, working on fixing things with family, etc. I looked over at me STBXW and asked, "Enjoy the readings?"

Then the sermon touched on all this, I chuckled under my breath (I sit with the girls between us at church, I just do it). She looked at me and then after the sermon I said "One of the best sermons I've ever heard" and she looked like the demons from hell were pulling her apart.

One should not feel a need to be angry and almost gloat in church but I have to say it felt rich to have her have to hear it.

But, she has the kids right now and I don't. NOTHING makes up for that.

I ate with a man last night that lost his wife of over 40 years. He had a huge insurance policy on her. He just turned 72 and said he'd give every dollar back for her as he cried. We were a set of messes, that's for sure. I'd give every dollar I have just to have the kids 100 percent of the time and her to go away.

Loved the new clothes, new jewelry and blonder hair yet again today. Black bra under a sheer white top for church. Classy. She was ALWAYS classy before. Now.... not so much.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Go to church today, shockingly my wife and children are there. They were supposed to be gone overnight at a hotel out of town before an event for the kids today. My D8 and I were looking up churches for them to attend the other night as she doesn't like to miss. I thought it was funny, my wife only attends church on the weekends she has the girls.
> 
> Today's readings and sermon were on divorce, only reasons divorce is acceptable,seeking forgiveness, working on fixing things with family, etc. I looked over at me STBXW and said "Enjoy the readings?"
> 
> Then the sermon touched on all this, I chuckled under my breath (I sit with the girls between us at church, I just do it). She looked at me and then after the sermon I said "One of the best sermons I've ever heard" and she looked like the demons from hell were pulling her apart"
> 
> One should not feel a need to be angry and almost gloat in church but I have to say it felt rich to have her have to hear it.
> 
> But, she has the kids right now and I don't. NOTHING makes up for that.
> 
> I ate with a man last night that lost his wife of over 40 years. He had a huge insurance policy on her. He just turned 72 and said he'd give every dollar back for her as he cried. We were a set of messes, that's for sure. I'd give every dollar I have just to have the kids 100 percent of the time and her to go away.
> 
> Loved the new clothes, jewelry and blonder hair yet again today. Black bra under a sheer white top for church. Classy. She was ALWAYS classy before. Now.... not so much.


Does it feel like your focus is entirely on her?


----------



## LBHmidwest

It did this morning, I'll give you that. But on the other hand, I don't want her back, I want her gone. I feel sorry for her and sorry for the kids. It's almost a feeling of disgust or yuckiness.

I
don't
want
her 
back

That has been a great thing to know, now convince myself of, but know.

I had to do some things yesterday with a very sentimental property to me too so a lot of things certainly came to the top.

I sat their looking at the view and thought only I wish my kids could be there and if I could hang onto it would another lady someday be there with me.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> It did this morning, I'll give you that. But on the other hand, I don't want her back, I want her gone. I feel sorry for her and sorry for the kids. It's almost a feeling of disgust or yuckiness.
> 
> I
> don't
> want
> her
> back
> 
> That has been a great thing to know, now convince myself of, but know.
> 
> I had to do some things yesterday with a very sentimental property to me too so a lot of things certainly came to the top.
> 
> I sat their looking at the view and thought only I wish my kids could be there and if I could hang onto it would another lady someday be there with me.


What are you doing for you today?


----------



## AFPhoenix

I'm at the same place LBH. I don't want her back...but I don't want her to be with anyone else...especially when I feel so alone. Selfish I know.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I'm at the same place LBH. I don't want her back...but I don't want her to be with anyone else...especially when I feel so alone. Selfish I know.


What are you doing for you today?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I have to drive a few hours to watch one of my daughters for an hour. 4 hours for 1 hour... Then going to the "community event of the year" banquet solo. Not something I want to do but forcing myself too.

A lot of this is complicated living in a smaller community.

Probably go work out after the banquet. Foot is getting better I hope.

Get the kids back during this week, looking forward to that.


----------



## Pictureless

LBH,

Great posts. Oh the irony...

Friends from our church told me that in the weeks after our divorce became public, the pastor had sermons on 1 Corinthians 13. _Not one Sunday, every Sunday._ Scrooge stopped going about a month ago.

Since she has her kids every other weekend, I think we can safely assume how she's spending her time.

As for me, I'm the same person Sunday morning that I was Saturday night. I've made a new life in a different city and I like my new church and study group.

And my wife was classy in church too. Do you know that one morning on Communion Sunday after drinking the wine of the Eucharist she said, "Ahhh, yummy!"


----------



## helolover

Conrad said:


> If you were, karaoke is a great way to meet people.
> 
> It's what I did.


I did the same on V-day. I never thought one time about silly X. 

I put my swagger on, went out with my buddies and took the stage. I channeled a bit of Layne Staley and Guns and Roses. 

I had groupies. 

Karaoke is a great way to meet peeps.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Went to kids events and to the banquet tonight. Hard to go to both but I did it. It's so hard on people, my friends and acquaintances, they just don't know what to do. It's hard for them to even have innocent conversation.

I'll keep doing things and it will keep getting easier.

A friend did some nice surprises today too. God bless him.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH,

I agree, friends are life savers.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Went to kids events and to the banquet tonight. Hard to go to both but I did it. It's so hard on people, my friends and acquaintances, they just don't know what to do. It's hard for them to even have innocent conversation.
> 
> I'll keep doing things and it will keep getting easier.
> 
> A friend did some nice surprises today too. God bless him.


What did you do with friends before you met her?

Sports?

Politics?

Woodworking?

There are meetup groups for damned near everything.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Conrad said:


> What did you do with friends before you met her?
> 
> Sports?
> 
> Politics?
> 
> Woodworking?
> 
> There are meetup groups for damned near everything.


Conrad - I had a ton of outside interests, that was one of the big criticisms of me she had. I also involved my children in a lot of them (they like many of the same things).

Actually I am into the outdoors big time, do a little work in politics and headed to DC soon. My wife did such nasty financial things to me I can't afford a lot of travel right now on my own and pride has kept me from letting friends foot the bill for ice fishing trips and things like that.

I have to do all I can right now financially to cut back. I went from an affluent lifestyle to pretty tough. That happens when someone steals all your savings, runs up your cards, and monstrous legal bills start hitting. Not to mention paying for everything on one salary instead of two. Plus a 4 digit child support.


----------



## LBHmidwest

12 emails from wife since she called me hun

1 from me to her, just sent her the tax prep cover letter to sign

Feels frockin awesome

didn't take any of the kids stuff from daycare either. told her I wouldn't let the kids live out of suitcases anymore. daycare texted me three times I forgot the suitcases. daycare lady is friends with the ex, I guess I did forget


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> 12 emails from wife since she called me hun
> 
> 1 from me to her, just sent her the tax prep cover letter to sign
> 
> Feels frockin awesome
> 
> didn't take any of the kids stuff from daycare either. told her I wouldn't let the kids live out of suitcases anymore. daycare texted me three times I forgot the suitcases. daycare lady is friends with the ex, I guess I did forget


Turning the tables is fun, isn't it?


----------



## AFPhoenix

There must be something in the air....congrats on holding your ground. Waking up is nice.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> There must be something in the air....congrats on holding your ground. Waking up is nice.


This happens like the sunrise, with every group that passes through.

If you maintain the NC and chart your own course, she'll begin to feel like she's "missing out" and start feeling differently.

But, posOM MUST GO FIRST. That's why exposure is so vital.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I haven't worked on finding POSOM. They can have all the fun they want. The toll on my ex will come back in spades down the road.

I really don't want her back. I, in particular, do not want her family back. I shudder when I think of many of them. If I knew I could have the wife I had a year ago, yes. Not the one I've known since October. I don't see trusting her ever again without a lot of therapy and a drug test. Even then, why?

A few friends have told me if they ever see us reconciling they'll drag me out of my own house by the neck and will not let it happen. I laughed it off at first (if you saw me you'ld know why, think of dragging out an NFL Offensive Tackle) but these guys, scrawny as they are seem to be serious lol.

My ex was a great lady, I loved her deeply have since 1988. She was a good mother, good friend, we had a great life. Now, it's gone and she chose that path. I feel horrible for our children.

Now it's on to the business deal and wrapping things up. If she wants out fast I'm willing. The price just has to be right. 

I've caught myself checking if attractive women are wearing rings the past week or so. Gorgeous single mom in the grocery store tonight with a couple of cute kids asked me for a help in a couple of aisles finding stuff (must be new in town). Couple of people at work hadn't seen me in a month and whistled with all the weight I've lost today.

I'm still a mess at times, there is no doubt. My kids cried tonight because they want to go to our cabin and mom told them she sold all the stuff in it so they can't go (she actually put all the new stuff in her house - I don't get the point of the lie but whatever). I told them we can go and take air beds and hang out. We still own it. Who cares about a TV and regular beds. They think that sounds awesome some weekend coming up.

I refused work travel but now have scheduled some trips, even when I have the kids. Great friend will take them. 

It's like gluing a broken mirror back together and over time the cracks are healing, some new small ones get in but not as bad as the big ones.

I tailspinned a little yesterday, a mutual friend told me even while she was pregnant she didn't want to have kids. She only got pregnant for me. It would seem my life was a lie longer than I thought. At first, it killed. Today, I just realize she did me a favor by leaving.

I don't want to be with someone that doesn't love me. (If I tell myself that another 100,000 times I'll fully believe it too)


----------



## Pictureless

Your ex is who she is right now. Is that a great lady? Do great ladies take away from their kids to furnish their love nests?


----------



## synthetic

Your definition of a "great lady" has changed as your personality has grown. Your ex is the same dishonest childish idiot she always was.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Pictureless said:


> Your ex is who she is right now. Is that a great lady? Do great ladies take away from their kids to furnish their love nests?


Ya, could be true. Right now she's riding the money train her mother and I provide.


----------



## LBHmidwest

synthetic said:


> Your definition of a "great lady" has changed as your personality has grown. Your ex is the same dishonest childish idiot she always was.


I think there has really has been a dramatic change in her, almost like a break in personality. Maybe she hid it better, I'm not sure. But she really did a ton of great things. Now it's a total 180 from great to awful. It's been a lot to digest in a short time. 

She would not take money from her family for 20 years and now it's hundreds of thousands in a few months. Maybe she thought I held her from their money and now it's lights out.

I do think she was a bit focused on herself, nothing horrible, but not within a mile of this.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Wife sent me another useless email today. She's just creating an email for discovery about an activity our daughter wants to be in. Me, no response.

Friends were slated to come over for supper, kids love company.

Before my 20 year friends show up I have the girls call their mom. Mom is asking them questions about what we are doing, who's coming for supper, what the surprise is I won't tell the girls for later, etc. Girls are asking me questions while she's talking to them. I just keep telling them none of it is their mom's business. 

My friends show up and make immediate comments on all the money my STBXW is spending. The kids come into the kitchen where I'm making supper while they are talking to their mom. I ask if the phone call was good and the kids say ll mom could talk about was the things she is going to buy them when she has them next week.

Hmmm It was 30 seconds after I and the couple talked about all the money STBXW is spending. The couple about fell out of their chairs laughing and rolling their eyes.

It was just on a perfect cue.

Money will buy happiness. For awhile. Sickeningly she's now trying to pull the kids back to her through money.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Hmmm It was 30 seconds after I and the couple talked about all the money STBXW is spending. The couple about fell out of their chairs laughing and rolling their eyes.
> 
> It was just on a perfect cue.
> 
> Money will buy happiness. For awhile. Sickeningly she's now trying to pull the kids back to her through money.


Keep reminding yourself how better off you are without her.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Pictureless said:


> Keep reminding yourself how better off you are without her.


Thanks man, I'm trying. I'm not better off now because it's hard to choose pain over complacency... but I will be down the road.

My feet are like walking on razors. I've just killed them working out. I got a 1/10 of a mile into my 2.5 mile walk today and just felt like there had to be blood running out of my shoes they hurt so bad.

I walked the 2.5 anyway. I was always the most perserverent person I ever knew and I won't stop now!


----------



## Pictureless

Take the pain. Trust me.

Bad wheels were always a problem in the army. Get properly fitted footwear for your feet. Keep your skin clean and dry and wear cotton socks. Some guys used to use moleskin on blisters. I just took the pain. Eventually your sores heal and your feet toughen up.

Take care of your feet. You're going to need them to march into heaven.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH...like everything else, moderation is the key. I realized that I was spending too much time at the gym...perhaps I should look to work on my flexibility...


----------



## LBHmidwest

You guys are dogs but I love it!

I think I'm going to give in and go out with a lady for drinks. Not for a relationship, she's separated too. I know a relationship is the last thing I need and she's said the same.

Heaven seems a reach right now. Purgatory feels beyond the next river.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Now if I could just figure out how to live without my kids. I'm 500% better when I have them.

The biggest rip of a divorce is even if you get 50% of the time, you DON'T have 50% of the time.

This is when I hate her the most and have trouble even imagining forgiving her. Especially when I know she ignores them when she has them.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Now if I could just figure out how to live without my kids. I'm 500% better when I have them.
> 
> The biggest rip of a divorce is even if you get 50% of the time, you DON'T have 50% of the time.
> 
> This is when I hate her the most and have trouble even imagining forgiving her. Especially when I know she ignores them when she has them.


LBH do like Ceegee and get them into therapy when they are with you.
She really went off the rails, sorry.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> You guys are dogs but I love it!
> 
> I think I'm going to give in and go out with a lady for drinks. Not for a relationship, she's separated too. I know a relationship is the last thing I need and she's said the same.
> 
> Heaven seems a reach right now. Purgatory feels beyond the next river.


A little FWB never hurt anyone.

You need a little ego boost.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Last two weeks of church... last week divorce is evil. This week... love those that wrong and hate you

Church has been good. People there even better. Something about a single guy with little girls I think. My kids are so cute and well behaved.


----------



## Heartbroken84

Sorry your STBXW is such a selfish piece of work, sounds like your kids are lucky to have a Dad like you!! Enjoy your time with them, even if it's not as much as you like at least that time is quality instead of them being ignored like it sounds mum does!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks Heartbroken. I went down to coffee after the service while my kids were in Sunday School. A lot of people are very very supportive. 

My wife told the girls she couldn't make church today, needed to clean her bathroom. Great example of a mom. I don't care about the church, her choice. Just hurts the girls she's not there and to lie.

I WILL be better off without her. Wish the kids were the same.

Conrad, I'm taking the girls to the cabin in a few weeks too. Working a fun side job next week in another state. Thanks for the PM's. I'm moving on the best I can.

Wish I had the $ to do it but oh well!


----------



## LBHmidwest

I know I'm not ready to date (keep telling that to myself)

But... I've had a lot of fun lately. I thought the smart thing to do is meet some other folks that are separated, would have more in common. I've been talking and talking with wonderful women.

Just listening to women talk about their relationships, ask me questions, share stories and so on has been fantastic. Obviously there are women that are difficult to talk to. But I've found a couple already that are highly intelligent, beautiful, and did a lot of good things in their marriages. It's interesting when someone you barely know seems to get "you" more than someone you were married to.

I'm going to go out twice this weekend if something doesn't fall through which I more than expect. Drinks and appetizers with a lady that is the total antithesis to my former spouse and a nordic blonde that has a NASA brain and love for dive bars and the same musical and movie tastes. The blonde talked to me until the middle of the night last night, she's just amazing. Too good to be true I'm sure. The best part, she has that touch - the ability to be insightful, say the right thing, ask the right question.

I have to say I'm pretty excited.


----------



## Heartbroken84

Have an amazing time!!!


----------



## LBHmidwest

I have made a couple of strong connections with women before meeting them. Apparently too strong.

One tells me today she has dates every day this week, gives way too many sex life details and I think put me in the friend zone for the next 5 years because I'm so brainy and good at communication. The topper, she's bagged some 25 year olds (she's in her 40's) I think 25 years ago that was all the kiss of death right?

The other one, I swear I'm not making this up, has an ex from 15 years ago show up at her door unannounced. Wife left him a few weeks ago. They go out. He gets drunk, they leave the restaurant separately. She talks to me until 2 AM (i'm the new shoulder guy apparently).

Tonight she tells me he showed up at 2 am at her house, more sober, professes she's the lost love of his life and they scrogged until lunch. But... she still wants me to take her out Sunday but her policy is 6 months of dating before sex so I know that up front.

I more f'd up than I was  Hearing these two tell stories was like trying to watch porn in church.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LBHmidwest said:


> I have made a couple of strong connections with women before meeting them. Apparently too strong.
> 
> One tells me today she has dates every day this week, gives way too many sex life details and I think put me in the friend zone for the next 5 years because I'm so brainy and good at communication. The topper, she's bagged some 25 year olds (she's in her 40's) I think 25 years ago that was all the kiss of death right?
> 
> The other one, I swear I'm not making this up, has an ex from 15 years ago show up at her door unannounced. Wife left him a few weeks ago. They go out. He gets drunk, they leave the restaurant separately. She talks to me until 2 AM (i'm the new shoulder guy apparently).
> 
> Tonight she tells me he showed up at 2 am at her house, more sober, professes she's the lost love of his life and they scrogged until lunch. But... she still wants me to take her out Sunday but her policy is 6 months of dating before sex so I know that up front.
> 
> I more f'd up than I was  Hearing these two tell stories was like trying to watch porn in church.


Um...wow. Who are these women? Women you actually went out with?


----------



## LBHmidwest

No was planning to go out with one saturday and one sunday. It really is nuts out there. I think I'm better off walking on the treadmill and lifting.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LBHmidwest said:


> No was planning to go out with one saturday and one sunday. It really is nuts out there. I think I'm better off walking on the treadmill and lifting.


I agree with you! At least you got a glimpse of their drama before you got too sucked in!


----------



## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> No was planning to go out with one saturday and one sunday. It really is nuts out there. I think I'm better off walking on the treadmill and lifting.


Oh man! I just deleted the message I wrote out on your previous post (of excitement!). Sorry that it turned out the way it did. But just think, be glad you found out that they were trainwrecks before getting more invested. Are you meeting these women online? Take a look at what you are going for and re-evaluate. Some of the stories I have heard from guys...well, when I hear what was in the profile, I am like duh.

I still think your strategy is a good one though. It's mine...and it's working. I gravitate toward the separated (for 7 or more months) because I think it instills some boundaries. It forces each of us to take it one day at a time. I am not interested in anything long term, just a pal to make this transition with, someone who gets it without making demands.

But, who knows...maybe in a couple of weeks (or months) I will be lamenting my stupidity!


----------



## Pictureless

It sucks dating at our age. I'm not going to lie, I'm not over Scrooge but I want to be. Finding someone compatible is going to be more difficult than I thought. I'm seriously considering moving if I don't get that job.

The dating site I joined has been an eye opener in a bad way. So many beautiful women looking for love but they have no moral or religious foundation. The ones that do are either too: too young, too old, or 200 lbs.

Not trying to sound like a shallow jerk, but there has to be a physical attraction and a moral compass.

Where are all the pretty Christian women? Not up here!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Ya, I don't know what's in my own head.

I have a desire to be intimate, but not committed.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> It sucks dating at our age. I'm not going to lie, I'm not over Scrooge but I want to be. Finding someone compatible is going to be more difficult than I thought. I'm seriously considering moving if I don't get that job.
> 
> The dating site I joined has been an eye opener in a bad way. So many beautiful women looking for love but they have no moral or religious foundation. The ones that do are either too: too young, too old, or 200 lbs.
> 
> Not trying to sound like a shallow jerk, but there has to be a physical attraction and a moral compass.
> 
> Where are all the pretty Christian women? Not up here!


You have to be kidding.

You will never find more willing women than at this age.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> You have to be kidding.
> 
> You will never find more willing women than at this age.


No, I'm not kidding. I'm not entering into another relationship with a woman unless she's a Christian.

We can be friends and activity partners, but no love, romance, or sex if she's not a Christian. I've learned from my mistakes.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> No, I'm not kidding. I'm not entering into another relationship with a woman unless she's a Christian.
> 
> We can be friends and activity partners, but no love, romance, or sex if she's not a Christian. I've learned from my mistakes.


Christians make mistakes too.

They're subject to the same emotions and temptations as the rest of us.

Faith is no guarantee against perfidy.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Christians make mistakes too.
> 
> They're subject to the same emotions and temptations as the rest of us.
> 
> Faith is no guarantee against perfidy.


I agree. And I'm not going to argue with you about my personal beliefs.

I think I will do better next time marrying someone firmly established in their faith. Not someone without a moral compass (or someone who changes their religion with every new husband).

If there is a next time. Other than the loneliness I could get used to being single. I discern what is best for me!


----------



## Fenix

Pictureless said:


> It sucks dating at our age. I'm not going to lie, I'm not over Scrooge but I want to be. Finding someone compatible is going to be more difficult than I thought. I'm seriously considering moving if I don't get that job.
> 
> The dating site I joined has been an eye opener in a bad way. So many beautiful women looking for love but they have no moral or religious foundation. The ones that do are either too: too young, too old, or 200 lbs.
> 
> Not trying to sound like a shallow jerk, but there has to be a physical attraction and a moral compass.
> 
> Where are all the pretty Christian women? Not up here!


How old are you? I was thinking early 50s. I would agree with Conrad if that is the case. Have you tried Christian Mingle?


----------



## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> Ya, I don't know what's in my own head.
> 
> I have a desire to be intimate, but not committed.



Why in the heck would you want to be committed? You are just getting out of/got out of a commitment. Take some time.


----------



## uhboy

LBHmidwest said:


> My beautiful wife left me without any notice at Thanksgiving. We had the typical dream life - two great kids under 8, we met in college, good jobs, hardly ever fought, good stability and finances. We had bought a second vacation home and were redoing our current home.
> 
> I got an "I don't love you" followed by cruel impersonal divorce notice from her attorney. She never warned me or talked about any marital issues until the week prior to this.
> 
> She decided within a day she didn't want the house and has kept the kids 90% of the time. She backed out of a temporary agreement and now we are going to a hearing.
> 
> Through this she has ruined our finances, losing our 2nd home, a vehicle, our primary home has been partially demolished in preparation for an addition and renovation.
> 
> She had acted depressed and had strange sleep issues but everything else seemed normal. A best friend, a bad influence, recently moved near us and so on.
> 
> My heart is broken but I'm trying to move on. My STBXW is all about herself. Long list of complaints, most of which are very trivial and others I don't even remember. Extreme weight loss, new look, and the kids say she basically ignores them for her phone and working out. She even forgets their meals.
> 
> It's sad watching someone you love change or embrace their new self, mid-life crisis whatever this is. I'm the only dummy probably dreaming she isn't having an affair but as circumstantial evidence builds it seems ever more likely.
> 
> Her/our "community" friends are abandoning her in droves but she marches on without talking to anyone. No counseling, not attempts at reconciliation and only communicates when she wants or needs something.
> 
> I'm trying to stay strong for my children and work is supportive as are friends.
> 
> I never had one divorced friend, I had NO IDEA how painful this could be nor how cruel someone you've loved most of your life can become within hours and sustain it.
> 
> I read and hear better days are ahead but it seems so impossible to get there. Like so many here say, it's hard to watch someone you love destroy everything and seem happy while their "2nd life" is their only focus.


I feel your pain brother. Had something similar happen to me, although shorter marriage and less abrupt. But still painful. In my case it's narcissistic personality with a midlife crisis, and likely post partum depression. What a mess. I'm in the midst of watching her start her 2nd life so selfishly. I am the one that filed, but she left me no choice since she wanted to continue her affair, even with 3 little kids...so pathetic. But shows you how alert you need to be when you put so much trust in your spouse. Tough road by I know there are better days ahead.


----------



## LBHmidwest

So sorry uhboy.

When I found out my wife never wanted our children it really clicked how crazy she is.

That's why she's punishing me by trying to keep them away.

Hang in there. Good people here.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Friends called me up and took me out for a steak. Can't beat the friends I have and it's so easy to forget all the people that care for us but feel helpless too.

I think I could take my top 25 friends and do or run anything in the world. Why the hell haven't we done it???? I never thought of it before today though either!


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Friends called me up and took me out for a steak. Can't beat the friends I have and it's so easy to forget all the people that care for us but feel helpless too.
> 
> I think I could take my top 25 friends and do or run anything in the world. Why the hell haven't we done it???? I never thought of it before today though either!


:smthumbup::smthumbup:
That's a good start.

Oh and please don't speedball like Jim Belushi please.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Jim Belushi is my favorite. For some reason I can remember exactly what I was doing when Belushi, Candy and Farley all died.

I've barely drank. I did go out a few times now with friends. trying to get back in a groove.

I've had to slow down working out for a bit. Need to get back on it. My feet and legs were breaking down so I got a good talking to by some friends that know their stuff.

Going to replace walking with more biking tomorrow.

I did meet one lady, just casual. Nice to be told I'm a nice looking guy in person for the first time by a lady in 25 years! Then get a follow up text she wanted to make a move but didn't. 

There is a fine line with not starting a relationship but getting out there and letting your hair down a little. Hopefully I'll thread the needle.

If not, I'll get my ashes hauled and go to church  and pray about my deep sins. I actually am religious but I need to let go a little. I just have to or I'm going to let go a lot.

Makes sense in my head, has to look foolish to all of you.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I absolutely blew it. Did everything I shouldn't. 

I held everything in for about 6 weeks, total no contact.

Then I made the mistake of typing one email. It started a huge chain reaction of emails back and forth. Her being herself, me trying to be nice. Then getting back acid so then I'd take the bait and refute and point out her flawed memory and logic.

I'm so P'd off at myself right now!!!


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> I absolutely blew it. Did everything I shouldn't.
> 
> I held everything in for about 6 weeks, total no contact.
> 
> Then I made the mistake of typing one email. It started a huge chain reaction of emails back and forth. Her being herself, me trying to be nice. Then getting back acid so then I'd take the bait and refute and point out her flawed memory and logic.
> 
> I'm so P'd off at myself right now!!!


The difference between those who succeed and those who fail is the following:

Those who succeed get up ONE MORE TIME.

Time to get up.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm getting on a plane tomorrow...

Gets to you when your daughters are crying, mom is throwing an email hissy fit and my cooker just blew. Coldly, but it blew.

You are right Conrad. One more of the next thousand!


----------



## Fenix

Next time, come here before sending the email! 

Deep breaths.

As far as threading the needle goes, just be honest. I think anyone who wants to start a relationship with anybody in our situation is a little bit nuts. Now, FWB? That is the way to go.


----------



## weightlifter

Normally I hang in CWI. Here is your most likely scenario. IF you want help investigating, I am scary good at it. PM me. If not. YOUR road, not mine. Its an offer not a command. Ive been in many dozens of threads here. I know this part.

>If anything - I did ask her to change. The major sign was going to sleep early and sleeping far too much on weekends. I didn't realize she was avoiding me, she said it was for working out early and being healthy. In September she started to lose a tremendous amount of weight and I started asking about depression. She would not tell me she was on a very expensive high caffeine weight loss pills. I have spoken to doctors and this was probably a cause of the strange sleep and other habits that started to manifest then - at least part of it.<

Sept pills. Likely she had OM on radar at that point. EA started likely a bit after there. Actual PA... Unknown without further data. Then again you may not want it. Its not My road or other posters road. Its YOURS. Some men want the info to process others dont. YOUR mind for YOUR closure.

>I've caught myself checking if attractive women are wearing rings the past week or so. Gorgeous single mom in the grocery store tonight with a couple of cute kids asked me for a help in a couple of aisles finding stuff (must be new in town). Couple of people at work hadn't seen me in a month and whistled with all the weight I've lost today.<

BAM!


----------



## LBHmidwest

I was good on my trip, work work and work! More emails, been nc again. Thanks for the PM Weightlifter.

Good to have kids and be home. Feels like forever.

I was on the way out on the trip and a mom sits next to me with a cute 30 month old roughly. Nice young boy and smoking hot nice mommy. Boy starts crying, etc. 

My satchel has some kids stickers, gummies and that kind of stuff in it from habit with my kids. So I offer mom and him a Toy Story sticker and a bag of gummies and a mini coloring book Kid is beaming, mom is beaming, easy flight.

Lady behind says that was one of the nicest things she's seen on a plane.

Lady on the way back complains about her career, her husband being inattentive, on and on. Then she asks me a few questions so I tell my story briefly, she's blown away. She's at a conference and hour away from home this week and happy, her hubby can stew at home.

I ask her if she loves him, why yes she does, deeply after 20 years, no kids but some of the fire is gone. I ask why, she's thinks a lot of it is her, she makes more, better career, lots of travel. He's home without her a lot on a farm.

I ask why she can't text him or leave him a note and tell him maybe he'd enjoy a night or two in the big city. Maybe put a lipstick kiss on it, be a little seductive.

I feel like a perv sorta but she starts going crazy with ideas, bouncing them off me.

Last I knew if hubby shows up he won't be able to walk out. Bubbly, clothes, room service, she was going to upgrade the room, on and on.

I was so damn happy for her and them, hope it works.

Then I sit around now, girls are down and think about her calling me all the stuff she did.

Which guy am I? Maybe I'm both.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Is it common?

Is it common for the WW to go 4-5 months of pure anger, hate, never any let up. Every dirty trick, no remorse, no effort to be amicable?

I'm trying to avoid all contact, do what I can, etc. I'm just surprised there hasn't been any let up yet.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Is it common?
> 
> Is it common for the WW to go 4-5 months of pure anger, hate, never any let up. Every dirty trick, no remorse, no effort to be amicable?
> 
> I'm trying to avoid all contact, do what I can, etc. I'm just surprised there hasn't been any let up yet.


Did you expose her affair?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Weightlifter is trying to help. If she was/is having one nothing has yet come out.

In many respects, I think it's all about her family money but I don't know. She's spending money at an unbelievable rate. I was convinced there was an affair, but I don't know.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Weightlifter is trying to help. If she was/is having one nothing has yet come out.
> 
> In many respects, I think it's all about her family money but I don't know. She's spending money at an unbelievable rate. I was convinced there was an affair, but I don't know.


Weightlifter is a veteran here.

I will yield to his expertise in discovering posOM.

But, IF there is a posOM, the venom will not dissipate UNTIL you blow it up.

It's like clockwork.

There will be a spasm of hatred and vitriol as you pierce the delusion.

Then she may slowly come out of the fog.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I thought... it was likely.

I think more and more every day her affair is getting back into her mothers arms and wallet. It's a thick wallet and grandma is running out of grandchildren she can see. (grandma is down to 40% of her immediate family and 50% of her grandchildren)


----------



## weightlifter

Does she have an Iphone? Problem is she is an ex but I JUST had an evil idea that is actually legal.

I like my evil ideas.


----------



## Thound

weightlifter said:


> Does she have an Iphone? Problem is she is an ex but I JUST had an evil idea that is actually legal.
> 
> I like my evil ideas.


I like evil ideas in cases like this. Too bad you cant share it with us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

I just can't take it. My girls were bawling tonight. They did not want to leave when mom came. I literally feel the life coming out of me.


----------



## weightlifter

Your stbx home is a negative place. I mean functionally not morally. I get it stbxw bad person... what I am getting at is their reasoning or is it purely the break up.

See your PM. Still doing some work for you.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Hang in there LBH. I know how you feel. Push through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

The 180...

We have so much to cover but I'm not

No alternative care plan

Huge financial bills neither of us will now pay, credit rating at risk. I won't pay all the bills anymore and let her coast. She claimed assets I didn't expect that have costs. She, of course, wants me to sell assets for OVER market value and give her half the proceeds. On asset is worth 30x the few remaining payments and it's a recreational item I will use during the divorce that at this pace could take years.

No schedule other than bi-weekly - she refuses to cooperate with a schedule for holidays, breaks, summer, anything.

Still has the children's Christmas presents I gave them. Has books and other items I gave them after she left. Refuses to return. Accused me of this with keeping one a pajama set - she has them - duh. I have let the kids take anything they want to mom's house.

She is telling the community that I criticize her to children. ABSOLUTE lie. The kids are sharp.

She refuses their requests for more than one call a day. She listens in on all their calls.

She is now trying to rekindle friendships, people are complaining to me they don't want to talk to her. I try to deflect. Theory is her social life is crumbling... Yup.

Told one daughter she could go to a meeting on their evening with me this week. Lent church night, only 2 other kids there and meeting was then cancelled. I looked bad not being in church - she went - a rarity.

She is telling people stories that are non sensical. People are more worried about her logic and reasoning.

I got the worlds stupidest email tonight, recent communications seem bizarre. She asked a question, I answered it simply with 3 words. She want's to verify again. I ignored.

We can't file taxes. She wants it both ways - divorce and taxes. There are issues that I find put me in double jeopardy. I had an easy and reasonable solution. No response so I won't provide tax documents to file at this point.

The list goes on.

I love the 180, but it's a pain too playing chicken with a crazy person


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH, again, I know how you feel. Keep up the good fight. Isn't it funny that everyone sees through their charade? A better question, why didn't we? I saw the signs that Raider gave me...foolish me.


----------



## LongWalk

How much weight did she lose, taking caffine diet pills? Sounds a lot like she has damaged her brain physically. Her aggression is pathological. Her desire for change seems like a restless search. 

Perhaps I am reading into it too much but it seems that her issues are not really your relationship. She has come unglued. Needs therapy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> The 180...
> 
> We have so much to cover but I'm not
> 
> No alternative care plan
> 
> Huge financial bills neither of us will now pay, credit rating at risk. I won't pay all the bills anymore and let her coast. She claimed assets I didn't expect that have costs. She, of course, wants me to sell assets for OVER market value and give her half the proceeds. On asset is worth 30x the few remaining payments and it's a recreational item I will use during the divorce that at this pace could take years.
> 
> No schedule other than bi-weekly - she refuses to cooperate with a schedule for holidays, breaks, summer, anything.
> 
> Still has the children's Christmas presents I gave them. Has books and other items I gave them after she left. Refuses to return. Accused me of this with keeping one a pajama set - she has them - duh. I have let the kids take anything they want to mom's house.
> 
> She is telling the community that I criticize her to children. ABSOLUTE lie. The kids are sharp.
> 
> She refuses their requests for more than one call a day. She listens in on all their calls.
> 
> She is now trying to rekindle friendships, people are complaining to me they don't want to talk to her. I try to deflect. Theory is her social life is crumbling... Yup.
> 
> Told one daughter she could go to a meeting on their evening with me this week. Lent church night, only 2 other kids there and meeting was then cancelled. I looked bad not being in church - she went - a rarity.
> 
> She is telling people stories that are non sensical. People are more worried about her logic and reasoning.
> 
> I got the worlds stupidest email tonight, recent communications seem bizarre. She asked a question, I answered it simply with 3 words. She want's to verify again. I ignored.
> 
> We can't file taxes. She wants it both ways - divorce and taxes. There are issues that I find put me in double jeopardy. I had an easy and reasonable solution. No response so I won't provide tax documents to file at this point.
> 
> The list goes on.
> 
> I love the 180, but it's a pain too playing chicken with a crazy person


here

A Voice for Men – Humanist Counter-Theory in the Age of Misandry


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> The 180...
> 
> We have so much to cover but I'm not
> 
> No alternative care plan
> 
> Huge financial bills neither of us will now pay, credit rating at risk. I won't pay all the bills anymore and let her coast. She claimed assets I didn't expect that have costs. She, of course, wants me to sell assets for OVER market value and give her half the proceeds. On asset is worth 30x the few remaining payments and it's a recreational item I will use during the divorce that at this pace could take years.
> 
> No schedule other than bi-weekly - she refuses to cooperate with a schedule for holidays, breaks, summer, anything.
> 
> Still has the children's Christmas presents I gave them. Has books and other items I gave them after she left. Refuses to return. Accused me of this with keeping one a pajama set - she has them - duh. I have let the kids take anything they want to mom's house.
> 
> She is telling the community that I criticize her to children. ABSOLUTE lie. The kids are sharp.
> 
> She refuses their requests for more than one call a day. She listens in on all their calls.
> 
> She is now trying to rekindle friendships, people are complaining to me they don't want to talk to her. I try to deflect. Theory is her social life is crumbling... Yup.
> 
> Told one daughter she could go to a meeting on their evening with me this week. Lent church night, only 2 other kids there and meeting was then cancelled. I looked bad not being in church - she went - a rarity.
> 
> She is telling people stories that are non sensical. People are more worried about her logic and reasoning.
> 
> I got the worlds stupidest email tonight, recent communications seem bizarre. She asked a question, I answered it simply with 3 words. She want's to verify again. I ignored.
> 
> We can't file taxes. She wants it both ways - divorce and taxes. There are issues that I find put me in double jeopardy. I had an easy and reasonable solution. No response so I won't provide tax documents to file at this point.
> 
> The list goes on.
> 
> I love the 180, but it's a pain too playing chicken with a crazy person


If someone is determined to fight you, fight to win.


----------



## Fenix

LongWalk said:


> How much weight did she lose, taking caffine diet pills? Sounds a lot like she has damaged her brain physically. Her aggression is pathological. Her desire for change seems like a restless search.
> 
> Perhaps I am reading into it too much but it seems that her issues are not really your relationship. She has come unglued. Needs therapy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, she sounds like she is losing it. 

I don't understand her. She was the one who left, right? She should be feeling guilty, not vengeful and hateful. 

You might want to start thinking about what it would take to get (close to) full custody. Something's not right here...


----------



## Conrad

Fenix said:


> I don't understand her. She was the one who left, right? She should be feeling guilty, not vengeful and hateful.


Unless she blames him for everything, like she always has.


----------



## Fenix

Conrad said:


> Unless she blames him for everything, like she always has.


Yeah.  Foreign mindset to me, I guess.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Her only concession fault in 21 years of marriage was she could have communicated more.

The pathological need to fight is just draining me. All I want is happy kids, getting finances under control, and some sense of going forward.

Looking back is easy, so wish I'd have been tough as nails to start.

Now I have to go see her in church if she shows... awesome.

She actually is trying to talk to people I've worked with for 20 years that used to be her friends. That in and of itself is crazy. She's not getting invited to things, people aren't going when she is invited, on and on.

Thanks guys/ladies.

I'm just worn out. I set a record for sleep in over four months last night, 9 hours. That used to be 3 nights worth.


----------



## weightlifter

Keep healing and venting here bro. How many have we at TAM taken thru their grim times?

FWIW read the thread by poster whyeme. Starts off epic bad. Ends... Epic good.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Stupidity...

Her a week ago in an email to me - You have a package from X Company on your porch. I have the email delivery receipt

Me- Nothing on my porch. Yes, I double checked.

Her - It has to be there. I have the delivery email receipt.

(Me inside voice - WHY the Frock is she ordering stuff with the package coming to my house??- I say nothing.

Me - It isn't.

Her - it says it's there. It has to be there.

Me - no response

Fast Forward a week until yesterday.

Me - Your package is on my front porch. Was there when I got home today - attached message to the top of the previous emails.

Her - Is it my package from X Company addressed to me? Where is it? When can I get it?

Understand - this is an outside porch on house, think deck with stairs.

Me- Thought how stupid are you and went to bed without replying.

Her Today - WELLLLLLL is it my package? Is it? Why don't you reply? Are you keeping my package? Why would you do that? She's doing this while she knows I'm probably at church.

Me - no response - can she be any dumber? Package still on deck.

Her - well, where are you, why won't you reply, where is my package?

Me - It's on the front porch.

Then I left town.

Her - OK, Got my package

She has serious issues... Funny part, 3 out of 10 times UPS Doesn't deliver to our home, they drop packages where we work even if the receipt said it's at home.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LOL...I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you. Raider pulled the same crap about wanting me to download the bank statements from when her student loan was deposited last Sep. (I closed the account in Dec but she can still see the statements). I told her to do it herself. I like the 180. I see how much of a doormat I was. Keep the faith brother, I'm right there with you.


----------



## weightlifter

Funny how they want to subcontract the sex services but want to KEEP bug killing, package receipt, and car maintenance.


----------



## LBHmidwest

weightlifter said:


> Funny how they want to subcontract the sex services but want to KEEP bug killing, package receipt, and car maintenance.


Ya, found out she attached her new SUV to my house for insurance this week though she left the house and all the billls...

Got bills for $1000 in January to fix up a vehicle she traded off a few weeks later without talking about it including 1200 worth of tires when I still had the takeoffs

won't pay on credit card she ran up

won't pay other bills for items but wants them as assets

i'm just wore out and ready to chuck it all


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> i'm just wore out and ready to chuck it all


Broken Arrow! Explore ALL your options including bankruptcy. 

Divorce is a perfect time to make a fresh start for yourself.


----------



## LBHmidwest

too many assets for that. We'll see, only thing she hasn't listed as an asset is the mailbox but she might remember it's by the road yet


----------



## bandit.45

Next time she starts a text message war just don't answer. You are belittling yourself and stooping to her level when you do that. Ignore her and get back on the high road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

Too late, I sent a snippy one. She really pizzed me off tonight while the girls were on the phone. God I hate it when the inner Cartman in me gets out.


----------



## bandit.45

LBHmidwest said:


> Too late, I sent a snippy one. She really pizzed me off tonight while the girls were on the phone. God I hate it when the inner Cartman in me gets out.


Then grow up and grow a brain. All you are doing by being nasty with her is cementing her opinion that you are evil and deserve what you get. Why don't you just buy her a set of steak knives to plunge in your back?

Someone needs to be the adult. Why can you not rise to the challenge? You're better than her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBHmidwest said:


> Too late, I sent a snippy one. She really pizzed me off tonight while the girls were on the phone. God I hate it when the inner Cartman in me gets out.


It's tough, believe me I know. Raider always knows what buttons to push to get me to re-act. Let me rephrase that, I now realize that, and while she still
pushes my buttons, I don't give her the satisfaction to react that way anymore. WALK AWAY! Go for a run, vent on here, do not respond to her. It's what I do, and it feels great.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

I was wrong, I know it.

She made them call when they were in the car. First daughter gets on and says she wanted to call from home - they were on their way home - but mom made her call from the car on way home. Mom likes to monitor all calls and even jump in to correct me/girls. The girls wanted to spend tomorrow night with me to do a school project that makes more sense for me to help with but it's "mom's night", she yelled no to them. Then they were talking about how they were looking forward to being with me later in the week for a long period. I heard her say something then the girls started saying no they liked being with her too. Then something else was said I didn't catch and a fight broke out between the three of them. Phone call ended. 

Sorry. It's heartwrenching for me to have this F---G S--T go on with my kids so crazy WW can get her jollies.

I sent a text after the call - Your only stated concern is what's best for the girls is your only interest. They know better. Don't blame me.


----------



## tom67

lbhmidwest said:


> i was wrong, i know it.
> 
> She made them call when they were in the car. First daughter gets on and says she wanted to call from home - they were on their way home - but mom made her call from the car on way home. Mom likes to monitor all calls and even jump in to correct me/girls. The girls wanted to spend tomorrow night with me to do a school project that makes more sense for me to help with but it's "mom's night", she yelled no to them. Then they were talking about how they were looking forward to being with me later in the week for a long period. I heard her say something then the girls started saying no they liked being with her too. Then something else was said i didn't catch and a fight broke out between the three of them. Phone call ended.
> 
> Sorry. It's heartwrenching for me to have this f---g s--t go on with my kids so crazy ww can get her jollies.
> 
> I sent a text after the call - your only stated concern is what's best for the girls is your only interest. They know better. Don't blame me.


document!!


----------



## bandit.45

Document document document.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

I have documented every day for over four months. EVERY day. Plus, I report concerns to third parties and name them for future testimony if needed.


----------



## bandit.45

Good. Be smart man. Now just stop engaging with that psycho whenever she tries to goad you into a fight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pictureless

Whenever you start to feel like you "would crawl through hell for just one chance to put our family back together" come back to this post and remember

She is not the person you married. You don't want that. You want to be happy. You will never be satisfied if you need her to be happy.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Pictureless said:


> Whenever you start to feel like you "would crawl through hell for just one chance to put our family back together" come back to this post and remember
> 
> She is not the person you married. You don't want that. You want to be happy. You will never be satisfied if you need her to be happy.



I agree. I wish it was that easy for my children. THATS what kills me.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> I agree. I wish it was that easy for my children. THATS what kills me.


As long as you are providing for your children and loving them righteously they will be okay. Divorce sucks for them too but in time they will see it wasn't what you wanted for yourself and them.

You have to believe that. And you have to grieve your own loss, you can't cry their tears too.

Children are more resilient and perceptive than adults think. Honestly be the best parent you can be and they will naturally gravitate to you.


----------



## LBHmidwest

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. I am the walking definition.

180... Take 22 (like a movie scene)


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. I am the walking definition.
> 
> 180... Take 22 (like a movie scene)


Hey progress not perfection.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again.


No that's the definition of my XW, marrying again and again over and over. 

I'm at the point of forgiving myself and I forgive her. Even the anger is fading into laughs because of the definition of insanity. Kind of like the movie "War Games."

"How about a nice game of chess?"

Feeling so blessed for all I have and what I've learned.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH, each time you get a little stronger. Hang in there brother.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Well...

Wife claimed a bunch of assets in discovery I didn't expect. So I sent her the payments and bills when she asked me to pay her some money.

Should be interesting...


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm dying laughing.

I get an email tonight after she sends me $20 in bills and I send here $1100 in bills and a reminder she won't cooperate on a parenting plan, alternative care, schedule for holidays, birthdays, summer, etc.

Her response - My attorney will contact yours regarding your email today.

And.... that will do what exactly 

Went out last night with girls and a big event this morning. I continue to be amazed at all the support I get through this. One family friend of HER family spent 5 minutes telling me to get as far from them and as fast as I can - but do everything to keep my children from their clutches. YA, no duh!!!


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBHmidwest said:


> I'm dying laughing.
> 
> Her response - My attorney will contact yours regarding your email today.
> 
> And.... that will do what exactly
> 
> Stay strong, don't let her drag you down. Don't respond to her idle threat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

Had to see her at a kids event tonight. New clothes, wedding band on right hand, big ring on left where wedding ring used to go.

Looks like a mid life crisis or something weird. She's so animated she looks like she's on crack. Crazy to watch.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Kinda funny.

Went to church, no STBXW of course... But the church goers finally succeeded and getting me sat with a very nice recent divorcee. Good job, pretty, kids.

Two of our kids come out of Sunday School today playing like best friends.

Every feel like you are on display as various couples give you winks and smiles.

NO, not rushing in, but it felt kinda nice. The lady in question asked me a few questions about the situation I'm in, was reassuring, very nice.

Ran into this lady and her family a lot lately.

Doesn't mean a thing, just nice to feel like you can almost imagine something new, tangible, real. 

This person even lived where my lake house is for 8 years and liked the area, same university, just kinda... nice.

And... I can add her to yet another person that asks... sooo.... is your Mother in Law being as difficult as I have heard and can imagine she is? But, I didn't bite. Just said it's been interesting...

Kids are great today, Oldest asked me if Grandma caused the divorce out of the blue after church. I just need to let Mom and MIL cook themselves in their own stew with my children.

I dread losing the girls tomorrow.

To all you azzhole dads, you make the rest of us sick.


----------



## weightlifter

Being set up by fellow churchmembers?!?


----------



## LBHmidwest

weightlifter said:


> Being set up by fellow churchmembers?!?


No set up yet. I've had 3 or 4 people I know in town, especially in the church bring up this woman. Her husband left her much the way my wife left me a few years ago. 

I think it's one of those things where we are both in our 40's, both with young children, both "liked" by the community. You know, name a Hallmark movie. A colleague has been talking about her for a month or two, he was giving me the thumbs up behind her back when I was talking to her.

Colleague stopped by today to ask me what we all talked about, did I like her? I said I did but if she's as great as he and others say the best thing to do is get more time in before really doing anything.

My attorney is a **** but he's my **** I guess. STBXW is SERIOUSLY hurting herself with family court in his opinion with all the stuff she's pulling with kids. He said he can tear her up at a hearing we'll be having. On the other hand, said to just pay all the bills and we'll sort it out, isn't worth it to fight. Not to narrow myself down but he laughed at some other issues her attorney brought up and said if it comes up in the hearing the judge will not only rule in our favor but will laugh at them and make me look great so just let it ride.

Sure wish I had my kids more.

Oh yeah, and found out where she moved a bunch more money to boot I hadn't caught before. Nice... Oh well, found it.

Worked out tonight. Sitting alone like normal. Have to get used to this.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> No set up yet. I've had 3 or 4 people I know in town, especially in the church bring up this woman. Her husband left her much the way my wife left me a few years ago.
> 
> I think it's one of those things where we are both in our 40's, both with young children, both "liked" by the community. You know, name a Hallmark movie. A colleague has been talking about her for a month or two, he was giving me the thumbs up behind her back when I was talking to her.
> 
> Colleague stopped by today to ask me what we all talked about, did I like her? I said I did but if she's as great as he and others say the best thing to do is get more time in before really doing anything.
> 
> My attorney is a **** but he's my **** I guess. STBXW is SERIOUSLY hurting herself with family court in his opinion with all the stuff she's pulling with kids. He said he can tear her up at a hearing we'll be having. On the other hand, said to just pay all the bills and we'll sort it out, isn't worth it to fight. Not to narrow myself down but he laughed at some other issues her attorney brought up and said if it comes up in the hearing the judge will not only rule in our favor but will laugh at them and make me look great so just let it ride.
> 
> Sure wish I had my kids more.
> 
> Oh yeah, and found out where she moved a bunch more money to boot I hadn't caught before. Nice... Oh well, found it.
> 
> Worked out tonight. Sitting alone like normal. Have to get used to this.


Keep working out my friend, it does wonders for your body and mind. You'll thank yourself in just a few short months when summer gets here and you're looking and feeling good.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Stay the course LBH. I agree with Pictureless, keep it up. I'm getting in the best shape that i've ever been in...and it's noticed by others, but more importantly, I notice.

It's different for me, I have full custody of D16 and Raider only has visitation with no over night visits. I'm sure it has to be tough being alone...but then again, take that time and enjoy it as well.

There's nothing wrong with a Hallmark movie!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks guys. Went on a trip tonight to pick up a truck for a friend. By truck I mean semi, oh well, neither of us have a CDL but it made it home. Breaking the law haha. Out here, not so much.

Attorney says if ex would play ball divorce would be over in 4 months. Hard to image 26 years of my life can be reduced to being over in 8 months from start to finish. On the other hand, I can't see her cooperating/settling.

My dog still loves me.

Feel like I've been in a huge funk lately. Not sure what stage I'm in, I think it's the I still can't believe any of this happened but I keep waking up and going to work or doing something.

I've dropped 50 lbs, 6" of waist now.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks guys. Went on a trip tonight to pick up a truck for a friend. By truck I mean semi, oh well, neither of us have a CDL but it made it home. Breaking the law haha. Out here, not so much.
> 
> Attorney says if ex would play ball divorce would be over in 4 months. Hard to image 26 years of my life can be reduced to being over in 8 months from start to finish. On the other hand, I can't see her cooperating/settling.
> 
> My dog still loves me.
> 
> Feel like I've been in a huge funk lately. Not sure what stage I'm in, I think it's the I still can't believe any of this happened but I keep waking up and going to work or doing something.
> 
> I've dropped 50 lbs, 6" of waist now.


How much does she weigh? You're dropping that dead weight too!

On to brighter and better!


----------



## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> My dog still loves me.
> 
> Feel like I've been in a huge funk lately. Not sure what stage I'm in, I think it's the I still can't believe any of this happened but I keep waking up and going to work or doing something.
> 
> I've dropped 50 lbs, 6" of waist now.


Your kids love you and you have lots of friends. You're in pretty good shape that way.

Plus, you must be looking good! :smthumbup:

If you enjoy her company, Just ask her out! I am sure she knows your story. Shake it up a bit.


----------



## ICLH

LBH - You and I joined TAM around the same time. Would you agree it is getting a little easier as time goes on? I think the second month as been the worst for me so far.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Pictureless said:


> How much does she weigh? You're dropping that dead weight too!
> 
> On to brighter and better!


A lot less after all the Lipo Extreme pills... looks the best she ever has from 10' away...

But, I like what your are saying. Hard to believe there was ever someone in there I did love. More BS today and yesterday. I wish she'd batch some emails once in awhile. I hate a steady trickle.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Fenix said:


> Your kids love you and you have lots of friends. You're in pretty good shape that way.
> 
> Plus, you must be looking good! :smthumbup:
> 
> If you enjoy her company, Just ask her out! I am sure she knows your story. Shake it up a bit.


Ran into her and the kids tonight twice with my kids. You might be right.

Lots of friends, but hard for married guys to spend a lot of time away. And, quite a few are a ways away. It's been long enough their attention on me is waning and justly so.

I'm trying to will myself to workout, feeling a real ebb lately. Can't go to sleep, can't wake up when I do.

I really had no idea how tough a miserable divorce could be.


----------



## LBHmidwest

ICLH said:


> LBH - You and I joined TAM around the same time. Would you agree it is getting a little easier as time goes on? I think the second month as been the worst for me so far.


Yes, we are both on a similar timeline, holidays sure didn't help.

I would say the 1.5 month mark around Christmas was by far the worst for me.

For some reason I'm not sure of, it seems like I've really been slipping back the last few weeks again. I've begun to think of bad things again, just not wanting to keep going or able to see a reasonable future.

Not sure if its because of all the discovery stuff or just being tired of fighting all the time. While I have friends, I don't have much for family and the "keep your chin up" doesn't really cut it when your kids are suffering. They both left crying tonight again, didn't want to leave.

I have to keep going, just have to (he tells himself with a grim but somehow not fully convinced nod).


----------



## AFPhoenix

Dude...I want to give you a hug...I'm sorry that you and your children are suffering like this. I know you have heard it before, as we both started this journey about the same time, but it will get better. You deserve more. Stay the course. When you emerge on the other side, help others. Hopefully I'll be there as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## beyondrepair

LBH, how are you doing?

I know how you feel, sometimes I can feel myself missing my kids and starting to backtrack, but you have to keep pushing forward.

She will never see me sweat. Better days ahead for sure. Let them crash and burn.

A little righteous anger helps.

Stay strong.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks guys, I hope I can emerge. I had another beatdown today reading some legal things.

Like a lot of rural men I'm a man of my word. While I can be complicated and multifaceted, at my core it's important to be honest, trustworthy and a good family person and friend.

I thought until last October my wife was classy, honest, supportive, ethical and a good mother.

Seeing what has transpired, reading her legal briefings, getting blindsided with something this morning just leaves me shaken.

I should respond with = get away as fast as I can. Yet, I have this feeling she is just mentally ill and not in control or I realize more likely, the real her was suppressed and now out of the barn.

A good friend stopped this morning and said that in his opinion, and his wife's - I was a good influence on her. Her personality and "wants" stayed in check because of my influence and morality, now that she is "on her own" and with her crazy mother - she's like a horse out of the pen - just running to run with no thought.

Some of this will be solved next week, or reviewed to be solved in the future.

It's just nuts to see them want a quick divorce, yet pile on so many legal manuevers and briefings that it makes it impossible. It's like they just want a war, not a divorce.

Please please pray for me to get more time with my children. They want to live with me full time and just visit mom. They do know the score at their young ages. But when they leave crying it's just tears my soul apart.

Obviously I overthink things.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks guys, I hope I can emerge. I had another beatdown today reading some legal things.
> 
> Like a lot of rural men I'm a man of my word. While I can be complicated and multifaceted, at my core it's important to be honest, trustworthy and a good family person and friend.
> 
> I thought until last October my wife was classy, honest, supportive, ethical and a good mother.
> 
> Seeing what has transpired, reading her legal briefings, getting blindsided with something this morning just leaves me shaken.
> 
> I should respond with = get away as fast as I can. Yet, I have this feeling she is just mentally ill and not in control or I realize more likely, the real her was suppressed and now out of the barn.
> 
> A good friend stopped this morning and said that in his opinion, and his wife's - I was a good influence on her. Her personality and "wants" stayed in check because of my influence and morality, now that she is "on her own" and with her crazy mother - she's like a horse out of the pen - just running to run with no thought.
> 
> Some of this will be solved next week, or reviewed to be solved in the future.
> 
> It's just nuts to see them want a quick divorce, yet pile on so many legal manuevers and briefings that it makes it impossible. It's like they just want a war, not a divorce.
> 
> Please please pray for me to get more time with my children. They want to live with me full time and just visit mom. They do know the score at their young ages. But when they leave crying it's just tears my soul apart.
> 
> Obviously I overthink things.


It's not over thinking, its just being surprised and shaken by the behavior of someone you thought you knew. I get what you're saying. It's really weird. 

How old is she BTW? Mine is 49. I'm thinking she's going through the perfect storm of emotions with all her issues and baggage; maybe bad menopause too. I don't know. What do you think?


----------



## LBHmidwest

She is 45, been together since we were 19 yrs old.

I've been told it does have a great deal to do with her childhood. Her mother never loved her, never showed her affection but did to two of her three siblings. The "favorite" was kicked out of the family in October and my divorce happened in November. Theory being it's almost like an affair - but with her mother paying for everything.

They pulled quite a few financial things. One this morning is key, I hope it doesn't destroy my case. Kind of a linchpin issue for my future financial well being.

Also was eye opening to see she is making more than me after child support. At the first hearing they pulled every trick in the book to over inflate my salary and deflate her income so we were 4 digits apart for child support. 

Big thing to me is kids, coming out of this with some semblance of retirement and my house.

I came from nothing and worked hard, saved all my life, was frugal, didn't spend foolishly.

Just too many months of losses and pain. I need a victory to get me going again.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LBHmidwest said:


> Please please pray for me to get more time with my children. *They want to live with me full time and just visit mom. *They do know the score at their young ages. But when they leave crying it's just tears my soul apart.
> 
> Obviously I overthink things.


If THIS is how your kids feel, I hope like hell you are fighting tooth and nail to make it happen! Their well being will be seriously compromised if they are forced to live where they dont wish to be! Then the b!tch can pay YOU child support, too.


----------



## Pictureless

3Xnocharm said:


> If THIS is how your kids feel, I hope like hell you are fighting tooth and nail to make it happen! Their well being will be seriously compromised if they are forced to live where they dont wish to be! Then the b!tch can pay YOU child support, too.


What she said!


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm trying for 50-50. She has filed for 100% which will never happen. She has made, I hope, a lot of mistakes that will upset the judge. Kids are too young in this state to have an impact. In a few years they can pick. Kids at this age have separation anxiety no matter what house they leave, but they are sincere in not wanting to go. General impression is mom ignores them. I'm sure she loves them, she's just a lot more worried about "her". Her emails are always about her.

She shouldn't pay child support to me, though... down the road with her holdings I suppose so but they'll hide the income. I do make more now.

At 50-50, child support goes away then to a percentage of direct bills. 

I'm not opposed to paying my kids way in life in the least, just not more than I should. If I pay fair, then I have more opportunity to spend on them in other ways too.

THANKS guys.

I got to see the mountaintop last year of where I wanted to be at 44. Poof, it was gone.

Happened to better men and women than me before and will today and tomorrow again.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Did the online parenting class tonight. That made me feel AWESOME. I'm doing everything, I mean everything right with the girls. Mom, not so much.

Thought some of you might like something I did with the girls at Christmas. We signed this and it's framed on our mantle. We look at it every so often. I try my best to live it.

RESOLUTION



I DO solemnly resolve before God to take full responsibility for myself and my children.

I WILL love, protect, serve, and teach them.
I WILL always take the time to listen, spend time, and show my affection and love.
I WILL be willing to lay down my life for them or anyone that needs help.
I WILL teach them religion and spirituality is love and understanding – it makes us better humans.
I WILL encourage them to love with all of their heart, mind, and strength.
I WILL train them to honor authority, live responsibly, be inquisitive and learn their whole lives long.
I WILL confront evil, pursue justice, and love mercy.
I WILL pray for others and treat them with kindness, respect, and compassion.
I WILL let the past go and try to learn from it, but not repeat it or use it as an excuse.
I WILL work diligently to provide for the needs of my family.
I WILL teach my girls that all humans are to be valued – no one is above another.
I WILL forgive those who have wronged me and reconcile with those I have wronged.
I WILL learn from my mistakes, repent of my sins, and walk with integrity as a man.
I WILL do all I can to help ________ and _____ become caring, compassionate adults, wives and mothers.
I WILL promise no other duty on earth means more to me than being a father.
I WILL give away my daughters to a man that is better than me.

I WILL work with the strength God provides me to fulfill this resolution for the rest of my days.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." 1 Corinthians 13:4-8


----------



## LBHmidwest

http://www.kmarshack.com/High-Conflict-Divorce/Recognizing-High-Conflict-Divorce.html

Helped me understand what I'm facing...

Narcissism... Means... Me trying to be the win-win person.... all of it.

All I can do is batten down the hatches and turn into the wind. I've been taking on water and will again. But I was always good with boats.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Weird week

Had a court hearing, pre trial conference

Show up before the hearing and my attorney says that their side got going finally. He got three letters the day before hearing.

One about coparenting (she won't) and they don't want me asking her any questions about schedule because she won't deviate for anything (how awful for the kids).

Two- they are shocked we're deposing her 

Three - they now want a settlement meeting

So the attorneys chatted and they want to postpone the deposition for the settlement conference. Ploy. Shockingly they do not want to depose me.

As the case was called her guy wanted my guy to agree to another pre trial conference this summer. He walked off and I said no way to my attorney, let's get this done, she thinks I want to stall to save the marriage.

So, they do a little battling and bickering, her attorney takes the route of trying to plant seeds about my trying to take advantage of his client. Judge didn't find it funny they only agreed to a settlement conference in the hallway. 

Then her guy said there was an agreement for the next pre trial conference later this summer. My guy said no way, they filed for divorce, they won't even meet to settle, they won't work on any parenting plan, we have no kid birthday, holiday, summer plan in place and they are stalling though they initiated this case. He pointed out there will be nothing new to find but a possible deposition

She and her attorney looked electrocuted. He sputtered and moaned but the judge agreed = he asked what would change between now and then ? Nothing. And he'd be at any depositions so what's the problem?? Then her guy again brought up wanting to make us come back in person before trial, judge said no way. I expect you both to give me a 5 minute call on X date, no pre trial conference and trial was set! They were hot. Then he chastised STBXW and I for not settling, not working for the kids and burdening the court system for no reason (I agree, but he must not know that). He said he'd make us go to mediation and we should get our acts together for our kids.

My guy says she wants control control control but then gets scared in court and realizes she's might lose. They have the upper hand in child support and more time for her right now so they want to bleed me financially and keep the status quo. He also believes they want no part of me on the stand in a trial or the quality witnesses I will produce. He believes I gave one of the best discovery responses he's seen for financial and especially parenting (they asked a TON of parenting questions and I hit them out of the park). His expectation is they will settle whenever the trial starts, not a second sooner.

Oh joy joy.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Weird week
> 
> Had a court hearing, pre trial conference
> 
> Show up before the hearing and my attorney says that their side got going finally. He got three letters the day before hearing.
> 
> One about coparenting (she won't) and they don't want me asking her any questions about schedule because she won't deviate for anything (how awful for the kids).
> 
> Two- they are shocked we're deposing her
> 
> Three - they now want a settlement meeting
> 
> So the attorneys chatted and they want to postpone the deposition for the settlement conference. Ploy. Shockingly they do not want to depose me.
> 
> As the case was called her guy wanted my guy to agree to another pre trial conference this summer. He walked off and I said no way to my attorney, let's get this done, she thinks I want to stall to save the marriage.
> 
> So, they do a little battling and bickering, her attorney takes the route of trying to plant seeds about my trying to take advantage of his client. Judge didn't find it funny they only agreed to a settlement conference in the hallway.
> 
> Then her guy said there was an agreement for the next pre trial conference later this summer. My guy said no way, they filed for divorce, they won't even meet to settle, they won't work on any parenting plan, we have no kid birthday, holiday, summer plan in place and they are stalling though they initiated this case. He pointed out there will be nothing new to find but a possible deposition
> 
> She and her attorney looked electrocuted. He sputtered and moaned but the judge agreed = he asked what would change between now and then ? Nothing. And he'd be at any depositions so what's the problem?? Then her guy again brought up wanting to make us come back in person before trial, judge said no way. I expect you both to give me a 5 minute call on X date, no pre trial conference and trial was set! They were hot. Then he chastised STBXW and I for not settling, not working for the kids and burdening the court system for no reason (I agree, but he must not know that). He said he'd make us go to mediation and we should get our acts together for our kids.
> 
> My guy says she wants control control control but then gets scared in court and realizes she's might lose. They have the upper hand in child support and more time for her right now so they want to bleed me financially and keep the status quo. He also believes they want no part of me on the stand in a trial or the witness I will produce. He believes I gave one of the best discovery responses he's seen for financial and parenting (they asked a TON of parenting questions and I hit them out of the park). His expectation is they will settle whenever the trial starts, not a second sooner.
> 
> Oh joy joy.


Stay the course.

The hell with the b!tch

Not one extra penny.

She will blink.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Don't falter! Watch her unravel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

Had a VERY ugly week with a silver lining.

I had some face to face and phone conversation time with STBXW. I was blunt, to the point, and didn't back down. I also did the right thing for the children. Previously, it didn't matter.

Suddenly, I had two "thaw" occasions with her for the children. The first in 6 months. I hope it continues. I will extend a nicety this week. She's still fruit loops but I'll wish for change.

A month or so ago I just didn't want to date or talk. I have made a few "friends" that are women but my heart wasn't in it.

A new lady came into my life a month or so ago. She had an incredibly difficult marriage and a tragic ending to the marriage but is positive, smart, caring and impresses the hell out of me. She is a very high powered executive. I I find myself smiling every time we text or email. We spent a lot of time on the phone in the past week.

Friday night she called and a friend stopped and I had to end the conversation. Later I got a text asking if I was still up. We talked until 4 in the morning. I was seriously worried, I would have guessed 2 AM. It was just amazing. I thought maybe it was too much. (She can't sleep she always says).

Yesterday I was busy with kids at their events and she was too we talked about getting together sometime though. Out of the blue I get a text that all of her kids were on overnight visits. I girded the courage and asked her out for a very late supper.

She said YES! I was like a 18 yr old freshman in college scoring a date with a sorority cheerleader. I showered, picked up a bottle of wine of a type she likes and got on the road. She had no reason to let me pick her up but I asked rather than meeting, I had a feeling I should be this way. Her home was lovely. Her pics weren't quite a match but she might have thought the same of me, who knows.

We chatted, had a great time and she didn't even make fun of me fumbling around in the downtown of her "Big" metro town I don't visit often. The first restaurant we picked shut down the kitchen, the second one had too but she wasn't phased. We just took a walk and found one she'd wanted to eat at.

She buddied up to the server, he swapped out something for her that wasn't on the menu as a side. We talked for hours. They kicked us out reluctantly. She made sure the manager knew how great our waiter was - I LOVED that.

We walked around, carriages going, partiers, full moon. She rolled down the wind and enjoyed the wind in her hair and took her home, it was almost 1 AM. She said she wanted to ask me in was afraid we'd talk all night. Instead, we rolled back the sunroof, the windows and sat in the woods with the full moon going. I wanted to hold her hand or lean over to kiss but I chickened out. We talked until 2, great stuff. We had a 3 hug parting.

I haven't smiled this hard in a long time. I woke up this morning and smelled her perfume on my arms from hugging her. Nice...

NO idea what the future holds. But it could have been a lot worse first date

I sent her complimentary text on the way home.

I just got one that thanked me for a nice night, complimenting her, thanking me for driving down.

Now I need advice.

We talked about going out again in person but I'm gone for a week. She didn't say in the text I had a great time or she wants to go out again. 

You ladies in particular, what's my next move?


----------



## Conrad

What is it you want?

Do you realize how many red flags are in your description of her?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I like her, very smart.

Honestly, I don't see the red flags other than the situation she survived but I won't pretend to be smart right now.

I'm all for your advice/help.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> I like her, very smart.
> 
> Honestly, I don't see the red flags other than the situation she survived but I won't pretend to be smart right now.
> 
> I'm all for your advice/help.


The insomnia is a bad sign.

Also, the talking to 4am seems BPD-like.

What do you know of the demise of her marriage?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Learned about BPD.

Insomina worsened this past week for her. I do know she is the person we hear about that the court and law enforcement let down. This was a very bad week for that history. It's public record.

Good thing. I have a first date out of the way. I feel no guilt. I got some practice with someone I could consider romantically. Didn't dwell on my past, ex, things like that. I have a long ways to go but it's another step.


----------



## Conrad

LBHmidwest said:


> Learned about BPD.
> 
> Insomina worsened this past week for her. I do know she is the person we hear about that the court and law enforcement let down. This was a very bad week for that history. It's public record.
> 
> Good thing. I have a first date out of the way. I feel no guilt. I got some practice with someone I could consider romantically. Didn't dwell on my past, ex, things like that. I have a long ways to go but it's another step.


No, I'm totally agreeing on that part. And, I can see you are feeling much better.

Remember....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence.html


----------



## LongWalk

LBHmidwest said:


> Learned about BPD.
> 
> *Insomina worsened this past week for her. I do know she is the person we hear about that the court and law enforcement let down. This was a very bad week for that history. It's public record.*
> 
> Good thing. I have a first date out of the way. I feel no guilt. I got some practice with someone I could consider romantically. Didn't dwell on my past, ex, things like that. I have a long ways to go but it's another step.


What did you mean by the highlighted statement?


----------



## LBHmidwest

LongWalk said:


> What did you mean by the highlighted statement?


I'm sure she does have issues sleeping. There were some tragic events in the past, not carried out by her. It was an anniversary of sorts to those events.

I'll pm


----------



## weightlifter

Congrats LBH
baby steps
Go for it. Ask directly.  LOOK STRONG.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Two of my STBXW's siblings reached out to me today.

They invited me to Easter along with the girls. We had a nice talk, they wanted to hear what was going on and shared things from their perspective.

Common theme, hatred of my MIL and blaming her for everything. Sad.

I was deeply moved by this today.

Update - I wasn't clear enough. The family has now SPLIT for holidays. STBXW, MIL and 1 SIL vs. BIL and SIL, various kids. I was invited to the non STBXW family dinner.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Two of my STBXW's siblings reached out to me today.
> 
> They invited me to Easter along with the girls. We had a nice talk, they wanted to hear what was going on and shared things from their perspective.
> 
> Common theme, hatred of my MIL and blaming her for everything. Sad.
> 
> I was deeply moved by this today.


You only know what they tell you and be thankful for that. You know how blood wars turn out.

What you feel is sorry for how they choose to live. That's not you. 

Make yourself a great day!


----------



## tnpapadakos

LBHmidwest said:


> She remained in the house for a few weeks though I was mostly away. She bought a new house immediately (family wealth) and is renovating.
> 
> At first the communication was all a long list of complaints in person, seemed she wanted to get a lot off her chest. I have NEVER argued, or denied. I agreed with some/most of it. Housework, laundry, more appreciative (yet I gave her flowers, complimented her, nice vacations for family, etc.) I have pointed out some of her flawed logic for the future (she thinks she will have the kids for every holiday, all summer, etc - she is under the illusion she controls our kids for whatever reason).
> 
> Now I get minimal communication regarding things with the children or bills. She's walked away from almost all the bills. We don't have any agreement in place so I don't want to ruin our credit. She seemingly has a never ending source of money but ran down our accounts and left 2 months of bills with my first check 2 weeks away.
> 
> I am doing everything I can for the kids. I did everything "wrong" at first - I begged, went to counseling, asked her to do so.Did everything I could to make her comfortable, get things out of the house, boxes and boxes of food, etc. I've been civil, nice, never argued, listened, been berated - "taken it". I'm trying the 180 now but she's fixated on herself anyway.
> 
> The last two weeks communication has mostly ceased unless she needs to clarify something or warn/ask me to pay a new bill. Just try to do your flex and medical allocations with this going on! She had new hair, perfume, and so on the other night when she dropped off the kids an hour late. Continues to lose weight too. I complimented her on looking nice and got yelled at for 5 minutes for saying that - she denied she looked nice.... Ohhhhhh K and it was none of my business if she was dressed up.
> 
> I don't have proof of anything, just a lot of small things, texts, etc. Gaps in time, etc. Hard to prove but seem to keep adding up. I have not done a real investigation but I'm in a no fault state and it won't matter anyway, would to me but in my heart I know.
> 
> I should say, like probably a lot of husbands, I can see some of her points about me - there is no doubt I was not perfect. On the other hand her criticisms went from minor to major and very lengthy going back to when we dated over the. Over the next few weeks after I was informed. I never drink, yell, scream, fight, love my wife and kids, solid community guy, we have tons of friends. But like so many say, my self esteem is shot at this point. I know it's about HER but all she talked about was AWFUL ME. I caused her to leave. I know intellectually it isn't true it's just a way to control the narrative and justification of an emotional divorce but convincing myself at night is a new thing.
> 
> If you are reading, imagine your life. Your kids, dog, activity and now it's GONE. Some of you are ahead of me. I never had an inkling.
> 
> I have to focus on my children and my health. I know I'm cracking up, not eating, not sleeping and so on. I am starting the Divorce Care classes and am in counseling. I'm working out, friends are trying. Some of the help isn't help but hearts are in the right place.
> 
> She tried to pull some fast ones at our church, child support calculations and temporary custody. That is scratching the surface.
> 
> Last night my kids called at 9 pm, the youngest is 5. They still hadn't had supper and they normally are in bed at 8:15. It's just killing me, yes I'm documenting.


Dude please please please get the audio book version of Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now....it is the only thing that helped me stop my suffering over a similar situation...the sleuthing only made me more sad and angry...you are ready for a breakthrough of epic proportions. We can't control anyone or change their minds...only our own...my mind was using me instead of me using my mind till I started delving into his talks and books...trust me you will start to feel better if you just lay back and listen...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SurrealLife

LBHmidwest said:


> My beautiful wife left me without any notice at Thanksgiving. We had the typical dream life - two great kids under 8, we met in college, good jobs, hardly ever fought, good stability and finances. We had bought a second vacation home and were redoing our current home.
> 
> I got an "I don't love you" followed by cruel impersonal divorce notice from her attorney. She never warned me or talked about any marital issues until the week prior to this.
> 
> She decided within a day she didn't want the house and has kept the kids 90% of the time. She backed out of a temporary agreement and now we are going to a hearing.
> 
> Through this she has ruined our finances, losing our 2nd home, a vehicle, our primary home has been partially demolished in preparation for an addition and renovation.
> 
> She had acted depressed and had strange sleep issues but everything else seemed normal. A best friend, a bad influence, recently moved near us and so on.
> 
> My heart is broken but I'm trying to move on. My STBXW is all about herself. Long list of complaints, most of which are very trivial and others I don't even remember. Extreme weight loss, new look, and the kids say she basically ignores them for her phone and working out. She even forgets their meals.
> 
> It's sad watching someone you love change or embrace their new self, mid-life crisis whatever this is. I'm the only dummy probably dreaming she isn't having an affair but as circumstantial evidence builds it seems ever more likely.
> 
> Her/our "community" friends are abandoning her in droves but she marches on without talking to anyone. No counseling, not attempts at reconciliation and only communicates when she wants or needs something.
> 
> I'm trying to stay strong for my children and work is supportive as are friends.
> 
> I never had one divorced friend, I had NO IDEA how painful this could be nor how cruel someone you've loved most of your life can become within hours and sustain it.
> 
> I read and hear better days are ahead but it seems so impossible to get there. Like so many here say, it's hard to watch someone you love destroy everything and seem happy while their "2nd life" is their only focus.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SurrealLife

I'm sorry to hear what you're going through, but I promise this will only make you stronger once you get through this. I went through the same thing a year and a half ago. Came home to a letter, was told everything I did was wrong, left to pay all the bills, lost my dogs, and the house. Not trying to threadjack, just stating our similar situation. A few months after she left, my mom passed away from her battle with cancer and two months later my dad almost did. She didn't even have the decency to be there for me through that difficult time. I was 40 last spring when I started college and she had divorce papers delivered a week before finals so within 6 months of her leaving, my mom passed away, my dad aalmost did, and I got a DWI (was reduced to reckless driving ). The reason I'm mentioning all this is because after fighting for our marriage for 8 months I moved on. I met someone a fwe months later and now live with her. She's sexy and beautiful and makes me happy. My now ex-wife has gained 40lbs. and is dating a 58 year old(she's 37). You too will move on and be happy. I don't know you but from your story I feel sorry for your wife and my ex- because they're selfish people that suck at life. Hang in there, it will get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucyinthesky

I had a similar thing happen only my husband went in for surgery and got a new life, same as you married 25 years. I was blind sided, my 28 yrs old son from a previous marriage had died 6 months earlier......... my husband did go for help and they told him mid life crisis. I thought really? at the age of 65. I was devastated and funny thing is, he blames everything on me, even though he is the one who left and refused counseling with me. Nobody in my family wants anything to do with him, its like he had a personality change. It was so hard for me because not only was I grieving the loss of my son I had my sons daughter to raise alone and she was 4 years old. So fast forward 2 years and I meet a wonderful man and I am getting married again. The saying time heals all wounds is true, maybe not all, but I have made a lot of progress after a nervous breakdown. It takes time and life will go on for you again it just doesn't seem possible when you are in it. Nobody can understand either until it happens to them. As my granddaughter would say from the movie frozen " Let It Go"
PS I think it was the weight loss for your wife that changed her


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## happyman64

LBH

I read your entire thread today.

You have gotten stronger, smarter and just maybe a little wiser.

Glad your date was great. And red flags or not it feels good to feel those old tinglings in the right places again with a woman!!!


Do yourself a favor. Go spend some family time with your WW (wicked wifes) siblings.

Your kids will love the family time.

Two things will happen. 


A. Your wifes siblings will express their concerns about their sister and will most likely ask you for your input.
Be honest and express your concerns for your kids and the crazy ex too.

B. They will also be looking at you. Be strong. Be happy. Be you.

It will get back to your Ex and MIL. It will unnerve them....

Keep fighting the good fight. Your kids are worth it and so are you.

And yes your attorney is a ****. But you need an attorney like that. Especially as your Ex tries to slowly bankrupt you for being a good man.

HM


----------



## LBHmidwest

lucyinthesky said:


> I had a similar thing happen only my husband went in for surgery and got a new life, same as you married 25 years. I was blind sided, my 28 yrs old son from a previous marriage had died 6 months earlier......... my husband did go for help and they told him mid life crisis. I thought really? at the age of 65. I was devastated and funny thing is, he blames everything on me, even though he is the one who left and refused counseling with me. Nobody in my family wants anything to do with him, its like he had a personality change. It was so hard for me because not only was I grieving the loss of my son I had my sons daughter to raise alone and she was 4 years old. So fast forward 2 years and I meet a wonderful man and I am getting married again. The saying time heals all wounds is true, maybe not all, but I have made a lot of progress after a nervous breakdown. It takes time and life will go on for you again it just doesn't seem possible when you are in it. Nobody can understand either until it happens to them. As my granddaughter would say from the movie frozen " Let It Go"
> PS I think it was the weight loss for your wife that changed her


A friend that is a psychologist knows my family and hers though he lives hours away. Years ago, unprompted without me criticizing my mother in law, he asked me how much my wife was like her. I said very little thank GOD. He then asked about her best friend. I said it's hard to say. She says a friends wife but it's really her roommate from college, a diseased soul. He reminded me the other day he told me to watch out down the road if the best friend came back heavy into her life.

His opinion. The best friend gave her the divorce road map. She had not given up resentments, tried to love. She tried to "fix" me, her, the marriage with kids, lake house and house renovation. Her friend probably got her introduced to the right guy or a local guy from her past gave her the "emotional" connection to flee. She wanted to be happy, had wanted plastic surgery and her friend gave her the weight loss pills to start. She got hooked on the "high" and that started the sleep crash cycle.

Mom wanted me out anyway. Was willing to pay for it.

Mom and my ex now barely speak.

Thanks all. I WILL be better off. And Firebelly, I needed a friend and you've been great.

I'm built to overanalyze but I admit I get lost in all the pysychology, I just do. I'm a simple guy that wants to live by the golden rule, raise my kids to be good adults, help others, protect others, play fair. I understand alpha and all that, I've always had dogs.

But this hurts so so so bad. I still get bad thoughts but less and less. But when they come, I can fight them off faster.

I do see myself happy in a few years. 

I'll never be an expert here, I'm just not built that way mentally.

My family has never been close but we are trying, that could be a blessing if it will hold together. It was something I never thought I'd see. I don't know if it's funny or sick to have your relatives saying, "We never dreamed you'd get divorced. We have to have your back."


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## LBHmidwest

happyman64 said:


> LBH
> 
> I read your entire thread today.
> 
> You have gotten stronger, smarter and just maybe a little wiser.
> 
> Glad your date was great. And red flags or not it feels good to feel those old tinglings in the right places again with a woman!!!
> 
> 
> Do yourself a favor. Go spend some family time with your WW (wicked wifes) siblings.
> 
> Your kids will love the family time.
> 
> Two things will happen.
> 
> 
> A. Your wifes siblings will express their concerns about their sister and will most likely ask you for your input.
> Be honest and express your concerns for your kids and the crazy ex too.
> 
> B. They will also be looking at you. Be strong. Be happy. Be you.
> 
> It will get back to your Ex and MIL. It will unnerve them....
> 
> Keep fighting the good fight. Your kids are worth it and so are you.
> 
> And yes your attorney is a ****. But you need an attorney like that. Especially as your Ex tries to slowly bankrupt you for being a good man.
> 
> HM


Thanks, seems after the fact to what you stated but I've been thinking the exact F'g thing you just said as have a couple of close friends I share with!

In fact, I just texted SIL to see if they were eating Easter Supper together. I want to try and get back in time to at least be there for awhile. I"m on a LONG trip with the girls but if I leave early for home.... I could get back. SIL was all for it.

THANKS guys.

I'm not wiser, I'm trying, maybe someday.

I've had people at work, friends notice all the weight loss, saying it's "good to see the old me" sometimes at work again. That's progress.

I even chitchatted the STBX at a kid handoff today. She was fuming and it didn't sweat me. I was as nice as pie with a big smile. I even picked up two armloads of trash out of her new rig. I forgot she treats them all as rolling trash cans. Plus I have a feeling she knows I went out  I'm HAPPY about it. Didn't throw it in her face, didn't brag, just did it and God put fate in action. She may not know but... unlikely she isn't guessing I did.

Plus I know two of her witnesses for character got cold cold feet today. STBX told them they wouldn't be cross examined and they could stay with previously written statements. One of their husbands called me. I assured him I'm turning my attorney who makes Al Pacino in the Devils Advocate look like a Puzzy. I'm turning him loose like a pitbull on a cat wrapped in bacon if we go to court. (No actual animals were harmed). I assured him my attorney will make them rue the day they stepped up for STBX. Nothing personal but my kids are at stake and if they want to answer questions about character they better be prepared because people, good people like these are, can't and won't lie in court. I will take no prisoners and I fear nothing that can be said about me.

Plus I know she had to organize her own Birthday/Easter party and only 2 friends would go, and both of them are paying hell with their husbands for agreeing to go with her and now the plans have been downsized - good to have moles . (Social life cracked beyond repair)


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## Intheknow

I've spent the better part of three hours reading your story, and I am inspired by your dedication to your kids, the evolution of a shattered husband to a self realized person of value and the direct and honest way in which you have shared this very personal and emotional journey thus far.
Also, it's good to know that there are quite a few sincere and caring people on TAM. and I've learned a lot from their posts as well.
I feel comfortable enough to actually write about my marriage and confident that I will find support and advice through my issues.
Thanks for sharing, LBH, I'm excited for you and can't wait to see how everything will come together.
Cheers!


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## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> Now I need advice.
> 
> We talked about going out again in person but I'm gone for a week. She didn't say in the text I had a great time or she wants to go out again.
> 
> You ladies in particular, what's my next move?


ASK HER OUT. Send her a text and ask. What did you talk about? Does she like music? Plan an evening. She (and you) sounds like she had a great time. Three hugs. Yeah. Ask her out.

At this point, don't worry about her lousy marriage. Have a good time, be honest and enjoy the company.


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## LBHmidwest

Fenix said:


> ASK HER OUT. Send her a text and ask. What did you talk about? Does she like music? Plan an evening. She (and you) sounds like she had a great time. Three hugs. Yeah. Ask her out.
> 
> At this point, don't worry about her lousy marriage. Have a good time, be honest and enjoy the company.


Thanks Fenix, I did ask but got an equivocal response.

I was specific about plans I know she likes in a 3 night window. She responded she's out of town with kids but we should keep chatting. I admit, I remember her saying that. My bad, in my defense it was two weeks away because I'm gone for most of the next 10 days. I am forgetful and I wasn't often before D day.

Since the date her texts, contact have cooled. Not trying to overread but I suspect she's hedging or juggling another guy or two. Which, is more than fine and fair.

I'll stay friendly but cool my response times and text lengths to match.

Besides, I already figured out I'm fine if I DON'T see her again. At the least, I broke my dating cherry and I did okay an saw life out there with a female.

And a big brain smoking hot blonde has been communicating often. She's been playing a 100 questions, feels like I'm being screened but maybe she's smart and trying to cover some bases of her needs. We have a bit of distance, and she's asking how anchored I am to my job, kids, etc. Good questions, possibly way too early since we haven't had an official date but yet again, could be she isn't very flexible- willing to sacrifice/bend for love at all. Either way, it's made me thing about things I hadn't getting back into dating.

One of the seven deadly sins reared it's head with her for me. The part where I imagine myself showing at a community event a year from now and the ex sees her and says to herself, "I can't believe that SOB found someone hotter than me. And she's smarter too."

Thanks everyone. I'm no where near out of the woods on any of this but this has been the first week or two where I've had sustained, tangible mental and other gains that I can viscerally feel and others can sense.

I feared sharing with a few friends I went on a date. They were freakin' ecstatic. 

My head still keeps me prisoner to the idea my/our/family future should be together but at least it's letting me explore other options now.

THANKS to all of you that have taken the time to post. While this is "computer site". It's still real lives and real people we deal with, help, and care for on here. I'm blessed to have all you TAM folks trying to help me and my girls.


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## weightlifter

Your wife has too big an ego to let herself think she has been replaced by younger and hotter.

One date down. many to go. I was surprised last night. I work with a short balding guy who I think is like 57. He has the gift of gab tho. So... dead night. I walk over to the work station and he is in his emails. Whatever dating site he is using he has TONS of women flirting with him ages 45-55. Dates about two a week.

I thought he was full of sh!t until I saw his inbox.


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## LBHmidwest

Intheknow said:


> I've spent the better part of three hours reading your story, and I am inspired by your dedication to your kids, the evolution of a shattered husband to a self realized person of value and the direct and honest way in which you have shared this very personal and emotional journey thus far.
> Also, it's good to know that there are quite a few sincere and caring people on TAM. and I've learned a lot from their posts as well.
> I feel comfortable enough to actually write about my marriage and confident that I will find support and advice through my issues.
> Thanks for sharing, LBH, I'm excited for you and can't wait to see how everything will come together.
> Cheers!


Sorry I can't give you three hours of your life back


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## LBHmidwest

weightlifter said:


> Your wife has too big an ego to let herself think she has been replaced by younger and hotter.
> 
> One date down. many to go. I was surprised last night. I work with a short balding guy who I think is like 57. He has the gift of gab tho. So... dead night. I walk over to the work station and he is in his emails. Whatever dating site he is using he has TONS of women flirting with him ages 45-55. Dates about two a week.
> 
> I thought he was full of sh!t until I saw his inbox.


Damn, I even have hair!

I wish I was in a bigger city to date, rural sucks for that. But at least I'm close to bigger towns.

There is a local girl I like but I think it's wise to play very cool locally unless something happens on its own. Kind of the, if you like wait until you are more ready theory and pray another guy isn't there first 

Blonde and Date girl texted today. Good just to have ladies checking in. 

THANKS for all your help WL!


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## LBHmidwest

I have my kids back. That's what counts tonight in my world. Dog is sleeping on the foot of their bed (ya, they became snuggle bunnies recently).

big Easter planned, hot blonde texting me, female coworkers dropping by the last few days in droves to see how I'm doing, hearing so much better.

Happy Easter all! I'm heading to the lake.


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## happyman64

LBH

Go have a great easter with your kids.

Do not let all those women melt your phone. 

HM


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## bandit.45

LBHmidwest said:


> I'm sure she does have issues sleeping. There were some tragic events in the past, not carried out by her. It was an anniversary of sorts to those events.
> 
> I'll pm


If I was a cheating ho I would have a hard time sleeping too. My conscience would keep me awake.


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## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> I have my kids back. That's what counts tonight in my world. Dog is sleeping on the foot of their bed (ya, they became snuggle bunnies recently).
> 
> big Easter planned, hot blonde texting me, female coworkers dropping by the last few days in droves to see how I'm doing, hearing so much better.
> 
> Happy Easter all! I'm heading to the lake.


BE THE COOL DAD in front of those female coworkers. Hell bring it up. "I took kids on a riverboat ride in that nearby metro place you live near. I took kids swimming at xyz123 and they had a blast!" then put some pictures of it on your desk. FEW things will get a normal man (IE not a rock star) a date or bedmate faster than the recommendation of another woman she trusts and bring out some quality women who are not actively dating. 

Better than puppies in a park. "LBH this is my friend Lisa. [holds up picture] See she is not fat. She needs a date for xyz function..." That actually happened to a distant friend of mine MANY times and ended up getting his current girlfriend that way. And this woman a single mom of one was NOT actively dating. He brags about his hot wet snail trail every other weekends.

Yea saw your town. Yikes for size.


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## LBHmidwest

bandit.45 said:


> If I was a cheating ho I would have a hard time sleeping too. My conscience would keep me awake.


So not her on this one. It was on the hubby, big time. I have seen news articles, it was a tragic event.


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## LBHmidwest

Everyone have a great Easter, off to have fun with the girls and post mercilessly on FB. Yes, I did delete and block the STBXW awhile back but i'm sure she has her ways


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## weightlifter

Be the dad!


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## LBHmidwest

Where to start!

The last few weeks have been fantastic.

Took the girls on a big trip with family and friends on the water. Fishing, boating, drinking, lots of other kids, great people. What an AWESOME time. I barely remember I used to be married. I went almost a whole day after waking up not thinking about..... her!

The women adopted the girls and I. They even stole my phone and started texting my lady friends. It was hilarious. Don't leave your phone laying around. No, I don't have a pass code.

The men told me to be mean as hell to the STBX and the girls love me.

The women were crying when we left that I was such a good dad and my kids are so nice, polite, and well behaved. Nice to have smoking hot, smart, nice women telling me I'll make some lady lucky down the road.

No one would let me pay for a darn thing but I found some ways to anyway.

I was the pied piper with about 8 kids, took them fishing, tubing, cleaned fish, watched over them swimming, etc.

STBXW pulled some crap while I was gone, who cares. Pulled more today, all attempts to CONTROL. She can choke on her own bile.

Half my inlaws got in touch last week, they want to remain close with the girls and I. I'm floored, They've broken off relations with the other half of their family over recent family events including what happened to me. I was moved to tears.

It's taken 6 months but I've had two awesome weeks in a row, hope it continues.

I have to admit, one of the ladies is so far out of my league looks wise I keep looking behind me to see who she is talking too. Brains, nice, kind too. Both have taught or allowed me to see my ex for who she was - controlling, snide, unhappy, did I mention controlling, and she rode me full-time. I loved her, but I've fallen out of love with her.

I sound like I'm on meds I'm so much better, I realize. But hey, it's fun to be happy and I hope it lasts. I know dark days will come but it's just looking so much better.


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## happyman64

Remember the good days LBH.

They will get you through the dark ones.

And stop looking over your shoulder. The hot chick is talking to you.

She obviously likes what she sees. Even if it might be something buried inside you. 

HM


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## Fenix

Loved the last post, LBH!! There will be dark days but none so dark as what you have gone through. Relax into your happiness, stay focused on your girls and moving forward and have fun!!


And yeah, stop looking behind you!


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## Pictureless

Happiness is the ex wife in the rear view mirror! Keep trucking!


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## LBHmidwest

I got up the courage to ask the blonde on a date.

She said YES!!

Then she even remembered I had a board meeting and presentation today and wished me luck with the yes. She has done some very nice little gestures already.

:smthumbup:

To be honest, I never even planned to date until after I was married but I'm just thrilled and I admit it!

Still talking to brunette but she just seems preoccupied. If you snooze you lose. Yes, I'm old.


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## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> I got up the courage to ask the blonde on a date.
> 
> She said YES!!
> 
> Then she even remembered I had a board meeting and presentation today and wished me luck with the yes. She has done some very nice little gestures already.
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> To be honest, I never even planned to date until after I was married but I'm just thrilled and I admit it!
> 
> Still talking to brunette but she just seems preoccupied. If you snooze you lose. Yes, I'm old.


:smthumbup:


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## weightlifter

You realize all those women will be trying to set you up with their friends...

What did I say before your trip? Can I call me or what. Better than puppies in a park.


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## tom67

weightlifter said:


> You realize all those women will be trying to set you up with their friends...
> 
> What did I say before your trip? Can I call me or what. Better than puppies in a park.


woof! woof!


----------



## LBHmidwest

weightlifter said:


> You realize all those women will be trying to set you up with their friends...
> 
> What did I say before your trip? Can I call me or what. Better than puppies in a park.


I haven't been set up by the ladies at work but I did let a few of them know I was dating. It will get out for sure. I told them not to tell anyone and showed off the pictures of the blonde.


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## LBHmidwest

I had an awesome date with brainy kind blonde. Wonderful, smart, witty, down to earth lady. 

Made reservations at a nice local sole owner ecclectic eatery near campus. Brought flowers, she loved them and put them in a vase at her place. Nice place. Went to supper, she was helpful on directions. Hated me opening doors. We then talked, ate and drank in the restaurant for 5 hours. I offered to walk around or go to another location nearby (bars, nice downtown district, dessert) she just wanted to have conversation and a few drinks.

She seems to care about others, "Happiest she is in life is when her class of kids is happy and learning". I was the envy of every guy, she was striking. I was lost in her eyes. Gotta say, it was great.

Took her home then sat in the driveway talking. She had a friend staying for the weekend (female colleague). She gave me a hug and offered her cheek. Talked a bit more, she was worried about my long drive home. She threatened to break my legs if I got out to open her door again but I said I was going to  She then told me I was a really good man and she had great night. She couldn't believe I brought flowers, opened doors, thanked me for the nice meal and said she hated to have me leave but it was a long drive home. She leaned over, gave me another hug, pulled the back of my head in for a kiss. First kiss with a different woman in 25 years. I was dazed. It happened, she backed off, smiled, touched my face and said get the door big guy.

Texted a few times on way home, she refused to sleep until I was home. Very sweet, not smart... but sweet.

Date with Brunette M or Tues, we are cooking together at her place.

Unrelated, Got invited on a huge fun guys trip, awesome destination. Someone backed out of their non-refundable spot, little cost to me and this is an expensive deal. I couldn't have done it pre D. STBXW was cooperative for children time switching, I offered more time to trade dlater in the year. Was almost nice about it... She's gaining weight... hmm = off the pills? Getting normal?

I have my bad moments, I wanted to tear up in a store today watching a family with girls like mine.

But... compared to 3 weeks ago. This is ROSES!!!

Thanks everyone here. I have a long ways to go but waking up thinking about a goodnight kiss from a girl more beautiful on the inside than the outside, which is saying something, instead of a FU speech, ex, pain, not wanting to live, etc. is a pleasant change!

I asked her to go out before the goodnight kiss. 

I did WAY better on the conversation give and take about past relationships too.


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> I had an awesome date with brainy kind blonde. Wonderful, smart, kind, down to earth lady.
> 
> Made reservations at a nice local sole owner eater near campus. Brought flowers, she loved them and put them in a vase at her place. Nice place. Drank, had a nice supper then talked in the restaurant for 5 hours. I offered to walk around or go to another location nearby (bars, nice downtown district, dessert) she just wanted to have conversation and a few drinks.
> 
> Nice lady, seems to care about others, has done great things for her family and friends and very unassuming about it. Guys were literally locking up when I walked to the restaurant, in the restaurant and on the way back to the car. She's not a barbie doll, just.... striking.
> 
> Took her home, sat in the driveway talking. She had a friends staying for the weekend (female colleague). She gave me a hug and offered her cheek. Talked a bit more, she was worried about my long drive home. She threatened to break my legs if I opened her door again but I said I was going to  She gave me another hug, pulled my head in for a kiss. First kiss with a different woman in 25 years. I was dazed.
> 
> Texted a few times on way home, she refused to sleep until I was home. Very sweet, not smart... but sweet.
> 
> Date with Brunette M or Tues, we are cooking together at her place.
> 
> Got invited on a huge trip, someone backed out. STBXW was cooperative, I offered more time to trade day later in the year. Was almost nice about it... She's gaining weight... hmm = off the pills? Getting normal?
> 
> I have my bad moments, I wanted to tear up in a store today watching a family with girls like mine.
> 
> But... compared to 3 weeks ago. This is ROSES!!!
> 
> Thanks everyone here. I have a long ways to go but waking up thinking about a goodnight kiss from a girl more beautiful on the inside than the outside, which is saying something, instead of a FU speech, ex, pain, not wanting to live, etc. is a pleasant change!
> 
> I asked her to go out before the goodnight kiss.
> 
> I did WAY better on the conversation give and take about past relationships too.


I'm really glad to hear this! Keep happy and well my friend!!!


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## LBHmidwest

Thanks P.

It's interesting hearing woman talk about their past. On one hand I see their points, on the other hand it's like listening to what my wife said so you find yourself wondering - what is truth?

Too deep for me.

I know what I did, didn't do, can do better and will do better.

I thought going on a few dates would be so so wrong. I'm sure my heart will get broken doing this. But it feels like I'm living again. Just having someone text about something, ask how you are, wish you luck on a project, seeing if the kids are well, whatever.

I also realize I didn't have much or any of that before!


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks P.
> 
> It's interesting hearing woman talk about their past. On one hand I see their points, on the other hand it's like listening to what my wife said so you find yourself wondering - what is truth?
> 
> Too deep for me.
> 
> I know what I did, didn't do, can do better and will do better.
> 
> I thought going on a few dates would be so so wrong. I'm sure my heart will get broken doing this. But it feels like I'm living again. Just having someone text about something, ask how you are, wish you luck on a project, seeing if the kids are well, whatever.
> 
> I also realize I didn't have much or any of that before!


I hear you. It does feel good knowing you're wanted and that you matter to someone. 

As for their pasts, I wouldn't be too concerned. We all have pasts and you are only going to get their versions of the truth. 

As for you and your stuff: one day at a time, bro. Forgive yourself and let go because you can't changed what happened between you and your ex wife. 

My advice: Enjoy your time with your new friends and live in the present. Baby steps. Ignore your heart, follow your gut.


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## BleepingFamily

I like the fact you got o many replies! Shows support.

If I can add my 2 cents, and I haven't read any of the replies yet so I might be off topic.

First off, when a woman leaves you cold turkey, it's almost always because there is another man. People in general have a hard time just up and leave because of all the ties they have, and when it happens its because they have ties elsewhere (aka having an affair).

Secondly (and I'm going to be a little harsh here), you have to realize she is not coming back. The sooner you realize it the better, and the sooner you can start living again.

Come on let's go for a drink! On me!

Mike


----------



## BleepingFamily

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks P.
> 
> I also realize I didn't have much or any of that before!


Love this, very good insight, you are starting to detach yourself from your ex. EXCELLENT!


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## LBHmidwest

Wish I was in Maine. Lobstuhhh, brew and scenery! Great writer from Maine other than King... Paul Doiron.

Thanks man. SHE ain't coming back and I don't want her too. She can enjoy her mom! I think she is the boyfriend.

Brunette cancelled, soccer rescheduled, bummer. Working on another time.

Having soon to be ex inlaws over to bbq wed, girls will be thrilled to see their cousins, aunts, uncle!

16 days to mega trip!


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## AFPhoenix

Good for you LBH! I too have noticed that the world is not as gray. Enjoy your new freedom. Live it.


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## LBHmidwest

Found where the ex hid a pile of income last year. I thought it was fishy she wanted to extend our taxes, not me. Now I know why.

Something every day. Doesn't even bother me really, it will sort out. Trial date set too now. 

Wish blonde was here, I'd give her a foot and back rub for free


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## weightlifter

Is that AN INCOMING ROUND for the xw to deal with?

Can you say...

BOOM!

I knew you could.


----------



## happyman64

Keep focusing on you LBH.

You are doing great.

And nice job finding your wife's hidden income. This tells you how long your wife was planning to leave you.

Maybe you can have your lawyer drop her a bomb in the near future.

HM


----------



## LBHmidwest

Her moral compass is askew. 4 things she did to manipulate child support.

She also failed to report this during discovery. Incredible. The arrogance...


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> Her moral compass is askew. 4 things she did to manipulate child support.
> 
> She also failed to report this during discovery. Incredible. The arrogance...


Silly man. The opportunity....

For YOU.


----------



## LBHmidwest

weightlifter said:


> Silly man. The opportunity....
> 
> For YOU.


Yes, I shot that to the attorney ASAP!

I watched the judge that would try our case go ape on a case a few months ago where one hid money. She has a quandary now... I like it.

She wanted a whole bunch of things with the kids this summer. In this state I should get half the summer.

My reply.

"Review your previous email where you said scheduling for the summer, holidays, etc. would only go through your attorney. Feel free to bring your requests up at our settlement meeting next week with my attorney present. Until then, I won't commit to any scheduling you may or may not have made with the children."


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> Silly man. The opportunity....
> 
> For YOU.


Can you say big arse trump card?
I can.:lol:


----------



## LBHmidwest

I hope you guys are right. I've been through one divorce, this one. Not exactly making me an expert


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> I watched the judge that would try our case go ape on a case a few months ago where one hid money. She has a quandary now... I like it.


ME TOO! Wish they allowed videoing in court. I would love for you to post a copy.

You WILL be giving us an update on that one wont you?

(Hint yes you will. Just nod LBH)


----------



## LBHmidwest

Court is in a few months at the earliest. We'll see, I hope... just such a mess of things in her head. Like watching medusa grow before me.

Thanks WL.

Brunette and blonde hanging in there. Scheduling is such a pain with kids, jobs and distance. Patience.. Patience...


----------



## Chuck71

glad to see you are viewing the situation with opened eyes

your STBX is in a state of delusion and is being given all the petrol

she needs from mommy. Women always love their mother's approval,
just like we guys do with our dads. In her "dream state" she thinks

she came out on top. Let her think that, live your life and enjoy your

two girls. (If you have a chance, read LostLove77s thread). The 

only thing she is secure with is money. Stand up to her and 'they'

will turn tail and run. she will one day realize, money can only go

so far in happiness.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks Chuck and everyone else. It's a great family here.

Been on dates with four woman now and made a great friend here. Maybe I will run off and meet you in Vegas sexy smart girl  !!!! How the hell can I beat an offer like that! 

Dating is interesting. Every date has been awesome. I was reluctant to do so but now... I'm loving it. It DOES help and I did wait long enough I'm in a better place. The difference in me from date 1 to 2 was amazing - less about HER, was able to deflect, stay positive, etc. I'm focusing on smart women who did not just ditch their husband. Smart, holy smokes is that nice!!! I've done some stupid stuff but all have laughed it off. SHE wouldn't have done that (for example, went to an art museum that closed at 3 pm - what kind of musuem does that? - should have looked at hours online lol). Heck, we both thought it was funny I did that.

Also being respectful of them, time, kids, parents and I haven't given up one minute of my kids time to date - not one. Will I, yes, after D is final.

I'm in Month 7

For those of you starting out I can tell you this. I really don't think I could have endured any more. But that's wrong, I could of and you can too.

I've lost 60 pounds, made a ton of new friends, went out to bars, museums, live music, plays - things I wanted to do but SHE didn't. I love my kids even more and they say I'm a better dad. $$$ suck but that's OK. I've had hot smart women hit on ME. It's awesome!

Even on bad days, and there are some. I feel numb and more sorry for her than upset or crying for me. Do I scream once in awhile, yup.

I'm not happy, far from it, but I can see I will be. But I can just feel the detachment from my former life sinking in and at times I actually like being single. 

It's hard figuring out my future. I wish I had my girls all the time, financial security and someone that loves me. But... I will and I can see it.

My friends have stuck, that's been amazing.

Wanna feel good about yourself? Have a smart, caring, kind, hot woman you've went out with send you thoughtful texts, call your for good night, wish you well at work events, tell you that your ex is out of her flipping mind and that in a few dates they can't help but think about the things they are going to do to me. THAT sure helps turn the page!

(Ok, it's also nuts to date for scheduling, figuring out what they are thinking, want, etc. - no doubt there)

I may not always make sense. But I feel like I'll find a new life I like better than the old one, except for the children and some material things.


----------



## weightlifter

Four?

Being the pig i am.

Didyou get laid yet?


----------



## bandit.45

I like your post. You are talking about yourself and your progress and mentioning the WW very little. As it should be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

weightlifter said:


> Four?
> 
> Being the pig i am.
> 
> Didyou get laid yet?


A gentleman doesn't kiss and tell but actually...... no. I could have pushed one over the edge pretty easily but I didn't. Another date ended in a very painful manner. She has a smart 12 year with a clock and a cell phone and a way to sneak to his house from grandma's lol.

Honestly, it will happen and with more than one. Not saying it sound like an *******. I have genuine like for all of these ladies I have not had a bad date. All have their pluses and minuses. All are smart, nice, complicated, infuriating, wonderful, complex and new. I sure don't understand women at all.

If I put one's personality of chasing me with the niceness and body of one I'd be in real trouble.

It's pretty weird but I just sent a text to one telling her to slow down, she has "it" all planned out for a date this week and honestly I'm not a pressure guy. I'm making supper, kid is away for a couple of nights, I'm leaving on a trip soon and she wants to give me a sendoff to remember. I think it actually scored more points from the girl getting back the message because I reiterated I'm likely to hurt her, no pressure, think things through. She sent back the "I'm an adult, you are a way better guy than you give yourself credit for and I care for you" type message. It was racier lol!!!

3 dates in 4 nights rounding the bases a bit with all is exciting but I feel kinda yucky too like I'm doing something wrong.


----------



## weightlifter

As long as you are making NO promises.

Glad progress is made.


----------



## Pictureless

Life, light, and love after D. Yes!!!! Go at your own pace and enjoy-for YOU!


----------



## Chuck71

As most guys, I hate shopping. But it is nice to purchase those 

jeans / slacks in smaller size. When you are dating females, you

are DATING. Not making wedding plans...I once thought that was 

just a phase some went through in their late teens or early 20s...

I was wrong. Play the field, you'll know when someone special

comes along. Remember those ucky feelings you had for the dream

girl back in high school...that means this girl may be something

special. If a woman has to have a date go precisely perfect, good

bet her expectations for you in the future will be unrealistic.

It's a minefield, scheduling dates around kids, work, your time


----------



## LBHmidwest

Got invited to a great concert tonight by one of the girls. She scored tickets when I get back from my trip. Won't let me pay, was talking about even getting a room since it will be over late.

Hmmm... I take that as a semi-invitation!

T


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Got invited to a great concert tonight by one of the girls. She scored tickets when I get back from my trip. Won't let me pay, was talking about even getting a room since it will be over late.
> 
> Hmmm... I take that as a semi-invitation!
> 
> T


Ahhh
Ya think?:lol:


----------



## Fenix

weightlifter said:


> As long as you are making NO promises.
> 
> Glad progress is made.


And plan on using protection!!


----------



## weightlifter

Tick tick tick
did LBH get some?
Which one was she?
How many times did he demonstrate how an internal combustion engine works using a live female model?

These and all your questions answered on the next episode tomorrow.

LOL


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm am SO SO SO conflicted!

I don't want to be that shallow, chase tail guy.

Yet... part of me does obviously.

I'm also planning on having a lot of fun where I'm going on this trip. Yes, that kind of fun. No I'm not paying for it but I feel relatively confident it will be fun and no strings.

I invited concert girl to dinner tomorrow night. She just texted and said someone asked her to switch shifts so she took a chance I wouldn't mind her coming early, like 3-4 PM vs. 6 PM.

Hmmm, how does the head decide between genuinely nice and clingy? Weird question. And she's making strawberry shortcake to bring no matter what I tell her about not to bring anything.

Girls shared stuff about mom and grandma tonight that really makes me hot. Plus Mom pulled a trip idea I told them I was doing when I get home in a week from my trip. Now she is doing it Friday. It's kind of a big deal and something she would have NEVER thought about. Damn.. just pizzez me off! Love it where she's leaving them alone now too and never told me.

Don't misunderstand. Girls told me they KNOW i want nothing to do with mom anymore.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH, 

Our paths seem very similar...Go with it my friend. Trust your instincts.


----------



## Pictureless

I'm so digging what I'm reading. A good man with values and options is so attractive to women. Sounds like you'll be rockin all nite and I'm not talking about a concert. Hope there's a double encore!


----------



## Chuck71

LBH.... enjoy yourself with her, enjoy the concert

sex is a primal instinct. which means.... she

may be coming on to you. as you are seeing

controlling the environ around you, gives you

a clear view of things. I loved it when females come on

to me years ago. But pop did inform me, "Son if she will

drop her panties for you on the first date, she will for 

anyone. No matter how many times your momma says it, 

you are not special." 

Your girls know who the stable one is. If they got into a jam,

who would they call? (insert lbh's name here)


----------



## LBHmidwest

Weightlifter, yes... 

Back home and digging in after a great trip. Arrived to three weird emails from the she devil, no shockers. 

She totally ignored the part in the settlement meeting where we said no summer schedule agreement meant she can't enroll the kids in anything she can think of. Of course, she's enrolling the kids in anything she can think of. No big deal except a ton of it is WORK day events out of town and stuff like that.

My response will be there is no summer schedule and don't make plans for them during their time with me - period. If you have to explain or apologize to the kids - your problem.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Weightlifter, yes...
> 
> Back home and digging in after a great trip. Arrived to three weird emails from the she devil, no shockers.
> 
> She totally ignored the part in the settlement meeting where we said no summer schedule agreement meant she can't enroll the kids in anything she can think of. Of course, she's enrolling the kids in anything she can think of. No big deal except a ton of it is WORK day events out of town and stuff like that.
> 
> My response will be there is no summer schedule and don't make plans for them during their time with me - period. If you have to explain or apologize to the kids - your problem.


CGs X planned this.... and of course it pushed into his time

if camp is June 11-15, then she gets them that week if she enroll

them. Which means you get them the week before and after.

Thank God fathers can now fight in court for 50 / 50 custody.

So many of my friends in the 80's maybe got to see their dad 

every other weekend and a Thursday night at Bob's Pizza Joint.

It bothered a lot of guy friends while they were in jr. high and

high school. It bothered a lot of female friends in high school 

and later on in life.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I like that about making her have them during things she enrolled them in.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> I like that about making her have them during things she enrolled them in.


LBH it all goes back to.....her wanting to control you.

I know my words aren't as eloquent as Conrad's but he

would have told you the same thing. Those girls are her

daughters but they are yours too. If the girls summer break is

eight weeks, go four and four. The enrollment weeks, are given

to the parent who enrolled. If she enrolls them in three weeks

of summer camp, she carries those three weeks and one other.

One thing I love about TAM is, I have learned the details of 

co-parenting and I, don't have any children


----------



## LBHmidwest

We are only going by temporary agreement, she will agree to NOTHING else. You are right about control!!! And you are eloquent. I miss Conrad.


----------



## happyman64

I miss Conrad too!

Glad to see you moving on with your life.

HM


----------



## bandit.45

It's good to see you detaching and moving on LBH. I'm glad you got a little trim too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Weightlifter yes what?

kind of slow tonight.

Welcome back and all that sh!t


----------



## LBHmidwest

Yes, big YES.

Have to admit, brought a smile to my face, repeatedly.

Dating... it's interesting. Hard to be on the same path as someone else. It's too soon for me but it's enjoyable mostly. Haven't had a bad date or bad time. I've tried to stop a few ladies from pursuing things further, that seems to redouble their efforts strangely.

Ex continues to be a nightmare. Nothing new. Just gets old and makes me numb. Hard to believe I ever knew her. So much vitriol in one human, she has to be just awful on the inside. So much anger and craziness. Whatever fuel she needs I guess.

Netflix is my new friend!

I would guess, strictly a guess, ex has heard I'm dating and that is causing some of her recent craziness. Oh well, it's what she wanted. She always said I'd never sleep with another woman. I guess she was wrong, very very very wrong


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> I've tried to stop a few ladies from pursuing things further, that seems to redouble their efforts strangely.
> 
> Please don't say this shocks you. Remember the girls who played "hard to get" with in the your past? Yes....
> 
> 
> Ex continues to be a nightmare. Nothing new. Just gets old and makes me numb. Hard to believe I ever knew her. So much vitriol in one human, she has to be just awful on the inside. So much anger and craziness. Whatever fuel she needs I guess.
> 
> *You knew who you thought was her. The her you thought would be around for decades*
> 
> Netflix is my new friend!
> 
> I would guess, strictly a guess, ex has heard I'm dating and that is causing some of her recent craziness. Oh well, it's what she wanted. She always said I'd never sleep with another woman. I guess she was wrong, very very very wrong


This behavior is normal from a WS. Things almost never turn out

as they had planned it. Sex is a basic human instinct. Siggy's id.

Somehow..... she knew you did. Remember the 180.

How was it to get back in the saddle?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chuck71 said:


> This behavior is normal from a WS. Things almost never turn out
> 
> as they had planned it. Sex is a basic human instinct. Siggy's id.
> 
> Somehow..... she knew you did. Remember the 180.
> 
> How was it to get back in the saddle?



It's a crazy life. I really don't have my head around it, just have to try to keep going. 

Her latest attempts at control are beyond ridiculous with the children. She has them scheduled for upwards of three things at ONCE on some days this summer, really? None of it ran by me and the kids don't want half of it. Pathetic, not sure if it's guilt or just a legal ploy trying to get me to fail somehow, I think both.

Siggy's ID - Sigmund Freud? 

She knew you did - ex knew something? Me going out?

Saddle, honestly - exciting on one hand and weird on another. It's exciting to be with new women and yet I miss the familiar - how things work so to speak. Plus, I find weird conversations already happening (women seem to have a fascination where and how many condoms). There is no such thing as "no strings" or just for fun, at least I haven't found that.

Going out with someone new tomorrow night. Banker with kids that lost her husband to cancer. 

I've went out with four women, had some fun on vacation in the tropics. I really haven't had a bad date, talk to every girl I've been out with. It's getting a little weird to juggle. No one feels like the one. They all feel like fun and interesting for now. One thing I've found is that SMART is a big big key for me. I just have to have interesting, stimulating conversation, smarts, brains, ambition. 

Friends are starting to want to set me up good or bad.

Also finding women seem to think, mostly, they have been treated badly and had very bad date experiences. I just try to be myself, gentleman, friendly, have a date plan and text/call ahead and after.

There is a weird friend/date dynamic too. Being called sweet feels like the kiss of death but it hasn't always been so. 

I have in my head too soon to date seriously but it has helped me see a future with someone else.

NO, no rushing into anything


----------



## Chuck71

I'm not ok with children's scheduling. Counter proposal. Send to her

and lawyer. You aren't McD's, she can't have it her way.

Many say no strings going in. Most of the time, that changes after 

first time. To alleviate the guilt for going too far, too fast... they

pull a "let's get serious" card. Go out with whomever you can.

Enjoy the fast pace. Really liking someone and thinking they're the 

"one" are very different. If someone thinks you're the one after

a first or second date, that is very likely, a red flag. 

Keep in mind, if you date someone who has been continually 

treated badly, would they recognize a good guy? Yes on Freud.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks Chuck, I sent her crazy schedule to my lawyer last week. We didn't come up with a summer plan a month ago and he told her then - NO PLAN - NO SCHEDULING of kids. She ignored him.

I think you nailed one of my date partners - I tried talking her out of moving as fast as she did. It may have been cruel but I told her I'm going out with another woman tonight, have told her that she should go out with other people too. She admitted I was very upfront about not wanting to be serious. I just think she's built for monogamy, it's a good thing, just not me right now. I'm built for it too.

THANKS Chuck.

It's funny, ex sent some hot email at the end of the week threatening me with all kinds of things because I tried to clarify the summer schedule times on pick up/drop off days. I replied her email made no sense - it didn't.

Today, a whole raft of emails over night going on about the kids schedule. No reply to my follow up. This is per norm. It's like she doesn't even read or comprehend or keep things in order.


----------



## Chuck71

If you were completely over her, I would suggest messing with her head

but.... you are not there yet. Plus the children schedule is not set

It all comes back to control and wanting a reaction

silence is the best thing. Have lawyer tell HER to stop contacting

you about schedule

I'm sure lawyer knows several ways to legally close her trap

Emergency, yes but we all know what her 

definition of emergency is. Her comment, you will never sleep

with any other woman, you probably believed it when it was said.

All form of control and no one relinquishes control willingly.

Dating to commitment is all about timing. The girl I dated between

1st and 2nd love wanted a commitment, I was not ready yet.

When 2nd love came, I was ready, as was she. Both have to be ready

or it will not happen. If one says they're ready and is not, you will hear this

"I felt as if he / she pushed me into the relationship when I was not ready.

I think that is where resentment came about and, why I cheated"

Sound familiar on TAM?


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> I think you nailed one of my date partners - I tried talking her out of moving as fast as she did. It may have been cruel but I told her I'm going out with another woman tonight, have told her that she should go out with other people too. She admitted I was very upfront about not wanting to be serious. I just think she's built for monogamy, it's a good thing, just not me right now. I'm built for it too..


#putting on asbestos underwear. Here comes the fire...

You see a lot of women love to think of themseves as "LBH's girl" ( or whoever). Even very smart higher paid ones. Along comes a man with a good job and apparent sanity. Biology takes it from there.

We are not that genetically far from our caveman ancestors.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks guys, you are killer.

Ex always said that I'd never sleep with anyone else while married. She was right... and wrong...

Great date tonight. I'm confused. I've never had a bad date. All have been sweet, smart, kind, considerate, easy to talk to. There is one I like the best. She's just hot, sweet and makes my heart flutter. But I think she knows I'm the right guy at the wrong time or something like that. We communicate regularly. I'll ask her out again one of these days. It seems when she could I couldn't and vice versa, now she's out of state a month. 

I guess I want to have fun, companionship but I haven't had a "I have to have her forever" moment with anyone.

Nice comments weightlifter. I hope I'm a catch, not so sure... down the road maybe! 

A friend is trying to play set up with a really attractive smart woman, talked to her a few times now. Little distance but she's nice. 

These women sure research a guy! All of them have looked me up, found people that know me, etc., before going out. It's been a good thing, I have, I'm proud to say, an excellent reputation across this state. Every lady has let me pick them up and every one says they don't normally do that, could be a lie too. I'm not good at playing the guessing game.

One thing I found helpful was a good friend. A very flirty lady that wanted to go out with me but I couldn't at first has helped. She now has a boyfriend but we've went out on a few pretend dates. She has literally coached me. Kinda fun, after one fun friend date/trial run she texted I did so good she wanted to get a room and was glad I didn't suggest (we were at a hotel lounge and restaurant with a gorgeous view for about four hours. Honestly, I was thinking it but I don't bag other guys ladies! We decided to lay off for awhile. But since then... she has said if she breaks up she's going to ravage me. God I love a woman that knows what she wants. I'm willing to be used


----------



## Chuck71

One thing I found helpful was a good friend. A very flirty lady that wanted to go out with me but I couldn't at first has helped. She now has a boyfriend but we've went out on a few pretend dates. She has literally coached me. Kinda fun, after one fun friend date/trial run she texted I did so good she wanted to get a room and was glad I didn't suggest (we were at a hotel lounge and restaurant with a gorgeous view for about four hours. Honestly, I was thinking it but I don't bag other guys ladies! We decided to lay off for awhile. But since then... she has said if she breaks up she's going to ravage me. God I love a woman that knows what she wants. I'm willing to be used 


I'm sure you would put up a fight

kicking and screaming all the way

:rofl:


----------



## LBHmidwest

Hey man, I'm serious. Maybe it's the old west or man code or fraternity in me but I don't farm another guy's ground


----------



## weightlifter

Ive seen your job title. If you are sane and can pull off a good alpha / beta balance, you are a catch.

Attached women see their single female friends, see... well... you... and start thinking.... hmmmm


----------



## Chuck71

Chuck71 said:


> One thing I found helpful was a good friend. A very flirty lady that wanted to go out with me but I couldn't at first has helped. She now has a boyfriend but we've went out on a few pretend dates. She has literally coached me. Kinda fun, after one fun friend date/trial run she texted I did so good she wanted to get a room and was glad I didn't suggest (we were at a hotel lounge and restaurant with a gorgeous view for about four hours. Honestly, I was thinking it but I don't bag other guys ladies! We decided to lay off for awhile. But since then... she has said if she breaks up she's going to ravage me. God I love a woman that knows what she wants. I'm willing to be used
> ********************************************
> 
> I'm sure you would put up a fight
> 
> kicking and screaming all the way
> 
> :rofl:


**********************************************
God I love a woman that knows what she wants. I'm willing to be used 


..............was mainly referring to this statement.

Was intended for your reaction with women in general

not one specific


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks guys, sincerely.

Have a few dates lined up this weekend, clingy is a little upset I had plans for Friday an Saturday. Tough.

I hope I am Alpha Beta Weightlifter. I thought.. I was.

Ex is REALLY pulling out the stops now. Found out she asked a friend to allege bad stuff too. Her friend refused and told me. Whew.. She'll find someone but I can't believe it. Really can't. Had four emails while gone, all wacky as the proverbial loon. She must be cratering.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks guys, sincerely.
> 
> Have a few dates lined up this weekend, clingy is a little upset I had plans for Friday an Saturday. Tough.
> 
> I hope I am Alpha Beta Weightlifter. I thought.. I was.
> 
> Ex is REALLY pulling out the stops now. Found out she asked a friend to allege bad stuff too. Her friend refused and told me. Whew.. She'll find someone but I can't believe it. Really can't. Had four emails while gone, all wacky as the proverbial loon. She must be cratering.


She is p!ssed you are not pining, begging and just doing nothing and drooling in a corner somewhere. lol
It is sad though a few years down the road as her sex rank goes down while yours goes up.
Oh well.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks guys, sincerely.
> 
> Have a few dates lined up this weekend, clingy is a little upset I had plans for Friday an Saturday. Tough.
> 
> I hope I am Alpha Beta Weightlifter. I thought.. I was.
> 
> Ex is REALLY pulling out the stops now. Found out she asked a friend to allege bad stuff too. Her friend refused and told me. Whew.. She'll find someone but I can't believe it. Really can't. Had four emails while gone, all wacky as the proverbial loon. She must be cratering.


you may want to photocopy definition of perjury and send it to her


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> you may want to photocopy definition of perjury and send it to her


:iagree:
And subpoena her friend.:lol:


----------



## Chuck71

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> And subpoena her friend.:lol:


if she' single and cute, he should go out with her

talk about a reaction :rofl:


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> if she' single and cute, he should go out with her
> 
> talk about a reaction :rofl:


:smthumbup:


----------



## LBHmidwest

Married, known them 15 years. Good friend couple so to speak.

She was gone for 3 days at a "graduation" an hour away, that's what she calls it to the girls lol.

Bad weather in the midwest. My uh... friend coming over had to cancel. Must say part of me is disappointed!

Yes, I hope the friend does testify so that I can bring this up. She doesn't know i know, husband overheard the conversation God bless him!


----------



## LBHmidwest

I got up to 15 emails this time without a response. I try hard not to, couldn't figure a way out of not responding. So i did the opposite of what she wanted.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> I got up to 15 emails this time without a response. I try hard not to, couldn't figure a way out of not responding. So i did the opposite of what she wanted.


I know you shouldn't but I would be tempted to reply simply "are you done?"
Oh to see her blood boil.:lol:


----------



## LBHmidwest

This turned out well.

For a follow-up I get a long plaintive email saying I don't inform her of my or the girls plans when they are with me. She wants to fill their schedule when they are with me but that requires more stuff. Today she told me to go get more stuff where she left it. I simply told her that doesn't work for me, this does if you want the kids to have it 

She also admitted that she signs up the girls for things they don't want to do but she feels it's her decision. Doesn't seem like the definition of 50/50 legal custody that I'm not asked. She was told in the presence of her attorney to stop this behaviour previously.

Sounds like an emergency motion to curtail her control issues with the kids is the next item on the docket.


----------



## tom67

Sounds like an emergency motion to curtail her control issues with the kids is the next item on the docket. 

Sadly yes.
And for her to pay your attorneys fees also.
This is basically contempt of court.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I like the attorneys fees idea especially well, over 10k so far.


----------



## Chuck71

another strong arm tactic, refuse to comply, do as Tom said

hit her where it hurts, the off-brand Hermes purse

petrol math doesn't seem to add up, 50/100 is not 100


----------



## LBHmidwest

I was dumb today,

note to self. even after record number of foolish emails, don't respond

and don't respond while angry

and don't respond to more than her

and.... trust your intuition. I found out she really tried to pull something today, that's why all the emails, she wanted to trigger me and did. Hopefully I was ok, but she's really trying to keep the kids from me.


----------



## tom67

lbhmidwest said:


> i was dumb today,
> 
> note to self. Even after record number of foolish emails, don't respond
> 
> and don't respond while angry
> 
> and don't respond to more than her
> 
> and.... Trust your intuition. I found out she really tried to pull something today, that's why all the emails, she wanted to trigger me and did. Hopefully i was ok, but she's really trying to keep the kids from me.


take her to court!


----------



## bandit.45

She's after you big time brother. Hide your pots and bunnies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> I was dumb today,
> 
> note to self. even after record number of foolish emails, don't respond
> 
> and don't respond while angry
> 
> and don't respond to more than her
> 
> and.... trust your intuition. I found out she really tried to pull something today, that's why all the emails, she wanted to trigger me and did. Hopefully I was ok, but she's really trying to keep the kids from me.


get back to observing, 50k ft. growth, forward progress


----------



## LBHmidwest

Wasn't too bad. She tried to file a last second emergency motion. Judge quashed it. Crazy, wants the kids away from me. 

Just gets old. Trial in August, can't come fast enough

Then she'll just file emergency motions month after month if I have 50/50


----------



## LBHmidwest

Went to the movie "Blended". It's pretty good if you liked 50 First Dates and The Wedding Singer (Sandler and Barrymore)

I went with a widow, we both thought the movie should be called "Too Close To Home" lol. Lot of moments about what we are both going through. We did laugh awfully hard. (One parent widower and one divorced)

Just an idea for some of you, took my date out after that to a vineyard with live music. Had a great time. . Then drove around a state park and watched the water with fireworks going off. 

Ex is right back on the emails trying to control the kids the kids and me during their time with me. Narcissists are interesting to deal with when not in a relationship with one and a backbone has been grown.

I'm very confused about dating. It's great to get out, but I feel like I'm not the guy I will be and I'm dealing with very real people and emotions. It feels as though some are feeling more attachment than I am but trying to hide it so to speak because they know I'm not in a great place, not divorced, etc.

I'm not sure I would date doing it over and I'm not sure I wouldn't.

My date last night said I'm a great guy and she's afraid, she likes me a lot, her kids would, but she thinks my ex has to have been crazy to leave and will realize it at some point and want to come back - then what would I do? 

I thought that was interesting but I can't see my letting the ex back in my life beyond children. It's wonderful to be complimented yet my heart aches because I've never hurt anyone in my life and it feels like I might be in a position to do so with someone that I date.

I've set clear boundaries with one date, she seems to accept it but I think she is more into biding her time in the hopes she'll be around when I move on.

In a nice touch, ex had girls with others last night while she was gone for the night. She really doesn't get any part of cooperation or what parenting should be in a divorce.


----------



## Chuck71

key word is "trying to control", I can "try" to buy a $30 million beach

villa in Naples... think I'll get it?

The women know your X blew a great chance and are aware if she 

had any sense, she would come back. What they want to hear is,

"I do not know who she is anymore" but stick with "it's complicated"

You must seek what is best for you. If you put a date's possible

future emotions before your present feelings... that leads to....

road to Mr. Doormat and sinking into the weeds of co-dependency 

and yes.... these women will know it.  The independent ones will

move on, the co-dependent women will latch onto you.

Guess what your future will be like... 

Your X has put many other things above her children, kinda lets

you know, in the end, it wasn't you..... it is something inside her.

Let her be..... it's you and the kids. When they get older... they 

may choose to stay with you more.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks Chuck! I got a long email from one lady I'm dating, a very smart woman. She wants to follow her heart with me... uh oh 

Another sent me a creepy text after I didn't ask her to stay the night. She invited herself over. I didn't want an overnight guest. I have not responded, she continues to try and get me to engage.

Got a long drippy revisionist history email from ex trying to go through the last month. My impression, it's 4 or 5 day since last communication so I assume her lawyer told her to change a bunch of her points in previous emails that she hung herself in.

I continue to work out, focus on moving forward.

In a weird note, I was at a sporting event for kids as a coach and a lady friends have asked to set me up with was there. I look up and she's talking to the STBXW. I have no idea why, but it bugged me to see them talking. I think it's because the possible date has talked to me off and on after church about how I'm doing, holding up, offering advice with kids, etc. 

Had to ask some friends tough questions about my marriage the past few days lining up character witnesses. Thank GOD all see me as a good guy, husband and dad. I feel so foolish doing this. What a a waste.

Couple of friends took me to lunch yesterday, kind of an intervention just to make sure I'm hanging in there. They wanted to go through all the stuff the ex has pulled, tell me I'd doing better, I'm not pining for her, I still bleed because she pulls stuff with the kids constantly, she just wants the kids to hurt me. Sounds dumb but it helps to have people just walk me back through some of the history and make sure I have things straight in my head.

Going out tonight. 

Thanks Chuck, everyone. You have excellent advice Chuck.


----------



## happyman64

You have some good friends the LBH.

Keep listening to them.

And I know some women can be pushy and some can play it cool.

Take your time and do not let any of them rush you into anything.

HM


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks Chuck! I got a long email from one lady I'm dating, a very smart woman. She wants to follow her heart with me... uh oh
> 
> Sharks are circling and yes, YOU are the chum. Apparently sane loving single father with good job.
> 
> Another sent me a creepy text after I didn't ask her to stay the night. She invited herself over. I didn't want an overnight guest. I have not responded, she continues to try and get me to engage.
> 
> Was she pretty?
> 
> Women trying to bed you. Poor [email protected] LOL.
> 
> Got a long drippy revisionist history email from ex trying to go through the last month. My impression, it's 4 or 5 day since last communication so I assume her lawyer told her to change a bunch of her points in previous emails that she hung herself in.
> 
> You see the jugular, now slash it!
> 
> I continue to work out, focus on moving forward.
> 
> In a weird note, I was at a sporting event for kids as a coach and a lady friends have asked to set me up with was there. I look up and she's talking to the STBXW. I have no idea why, but it bugged me to see them talking. I think it's because the possible date has talked to me off and on after church about how I'm doing, holding up, offering advice with kids, etc.
> 
> Huh. A woman trying to set you up with one of her friends or she is the set up or ??? Me no understand!
> 
> Had to ask some friends tough questions about my marriage the past few days lining up character witnesses. Thank GOD all see me as a good guy, husband and dad. I feel so foolish doing this. What a a waste.
> 
> Couple of friends took me to lunch yesterday, (Free food the best kind!) kind of an intervention just to make sure I'm hanging in there. They wanted to go through all the stuff the ex has pulled, tell me I'd doing better, I'm not pining for her, I still bleed because she pulls stuff with the kids constantly, she just wants the kids to hurt me. Sounds dumb but it helps to have people just walk me back through some of the history and make sure I have things straight in my head.
> 
> Going out tonight.
> 
> Thanks Chuck, everyone. You have excellent advice Chuck.


----------



## Chuck71

When the STBXW sees she can not inflict pain on you anymore

they get at you through the kids, see it on TAM too often

My 2nd love's mom would do that to her dad

Women are like jobs..... If you need one really bad, none appear

you can post ads on 50 dating sites and turn in 500 resumes

but once you obtain a job or settle down with one woman

they flood you all at once

Try not to hold it against some women who are direct

I admire any one who is direct and to the point

the one inviting herself over ...... let's say you allowed her to

how do you think the next time would be?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Messed that up. 

Friends have mentioned a divorcee to me as a dating partner numerous times. Honestly, I'd never noticed her before. 

Suddenly, it has seemed like I run into her constantly. Again, I probably had just not paid attention. She is classy, good looking, good job, talked to me quite a few times. Seems kind, considerate, well behaved kids.

Saw her talking with my ex at length at ball game as I coached, just gave me a weird feeling.


----------



## bandit.45

Don't date anyone your ex chats with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## helolover

bandit.45 said:


> Don't date anyone your ex chats with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


concur 100 percent.


----------



## LongWalk

It could be sinister, but sometimes women just want to make sure they are not crossing into someone else's territory.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Well....

For all my successes, I have really backslid the past few weeks.

I have tried to cut off one lady friend, she is resisting.

I have now hit the "I can't wake up" phase.

Our bank shocked me yesterday with changes in some financing I thought were no problem. I'm OK asset wise, not liquidity. I'll figure that out.

Got cuffed a little at work, first time in my career - concerned about my focusing on this stuff at work.

I'm trying to refocus and regroup. All I can do.

I've actually turned down companionship so to speak the past few nights.

Hard to describe, just a numb dull ache, feeling disattached from myself. Not emotional, almost resigned more so. 

In a hilarious note. Ex is tearing out the carpet she put in the house in January with new carpet already. Kids can't figure that out. And she talks/yells to herself - blames me for her and kids problems. They keep expecting to see someone with mom but she is alone when they go find her, not on phone either. That's a little freaky!


----------



## Chuck71

alone time needed. get a few guys and go fishing

ya know, you don't "really" fish but.... it's the time that counts

the carpet really isn't a surprise, it reminds her of you and as long

as she has money flowing like petrol, she will spend it for that 

momentary high. 

As for the talking to herself :rofl: does she answer back?

Maybe her POSOM is imaginary. God knows I wouldn't know any 

guy who could put up with her


----------



## happyman64

Get your focus back on at work.

The rest will fall in place. Even your cash flow will bounce back.

Have you ever recorded your ex when she is talking to herself?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Should have the kids record her. They thought someone else was in the house. She was saying I ruined her life, the children's something like that. They go in the basement, she's all alone. They repeated the story tonight.

She's also leaving them alone. Was anyway. I told them to call me next time it happens, hasn't since.

You are right chuck, I need to spend some time doing something good.


----------



## Chuck71

what is your fav sport? your fav sports team? your fav player from

your childhood?


----------



## LBHmidwest

football vikings studwell

Mutual parting with a lady I've been dating tonight. I can't compete with a man that passed away (my words I did not say) and she can't compete with my ex/drama while going through a divorce (words she did say). 

I feel like I can't focus on much but myself right now. Dating is good for one thing, practice for when you are ready. But eggs will get broken. Hopefully not too many of my own


----------



## Chuck71

buy a few Viking team sets from the 70s and 80s

Twins are my fav, sets aren't $$

those cards take me back to, the innocence of yesterday

or buy yourself something, sportcoat, chainsaw, game tickets

do a few mini outings with the guys, drink a few beers

burp loud, fart..... just get away from the stresses


----------



## LBHmidwest

Good week with kids. They asked me to open a daycare for other kids last night, they said I'm a good daddy and good with kids. Very sweet. 
Weekend was good, lots of activities. They have lots of questions, I try to be honest. The ex is talking way too much, confusing them, not being nice. Can't control it.

A lot of you feel the way I do. I just want my kids and wish she'd go away without them. Won't happen but I can dream.

I hope to look back and see that any of this made sense. Right now, it just feels like an adult was selfish and that's about it.


----------



## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> Good week with kids. They asked me to open a daycare for other kids last night, they said I'm a good daddy and good with kids. Very sweet.
> Weekend was good, lots of activities. They have lots of questions, I try to be honest. The ex is talking way too much, confusing them, not being nice. Can't control it.
> 
> A lot of you feel the way I do. I just want my kids and wish she'd go away without them. Won't happen but I can dream.
> 
> I hope to look back and see that any of this made sense. Right now, it just feels like an adult was selfish and that's about it.


Yeah, that's about it. And we deal with the fall out.


It is really mind-boggling at times.


----------



## SamuraiJack

LBHmidwest said:


> football vikings studwell
> 
> Mutual parting with a lady I've been dating tonight. I can't compete with a man that passed away (my words I did not say) and she can't compete with my ex/drama while going through a divorce (words she did say).
> 
> I feel like I can't focus on much but myself right now. Dating is good for one thing, practice for when you are ready. But eggs will get broken. Hopefully not too many of my own


Isnt it strange how people automatically get deified when they die?
I met this one lady who went on and on about her dead husband and how he would hit her and yell at her "but it was allright because he loved her."

Check please!!!


----------



## Chuck71

in 2034 everything you post here will make perfect sense

it's still you and the two girls...just minus one moron

kinda like it was in the past huh?

little girls pick up on a lot more than we give them credit for

they know you will always be there..... graduation, prom,

cleaning shotguns when their b/f comes over, 7 years older than she

you have an adventure..... more complex than having boys

but you're up to it. And one day... closer than you realize, those

girls will choose themselves, where to stay. Patience......


----------



## LBHmidwest

Good advice as always guys.

I friend asked how I felt today.

I feel like an old ship that has been in a close quarter battle. Think of the English ship in the beginning of the movie Master and Commander or the French ship at the end. Shot, full of holes, sails tattered, grape shot throughout but still floating. I just have to keep floating and bailing water.

One thing about all of this, I haven't found a "true" bottom yet. Seems impossible to believe. I will one day, but haven't yet.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Went to a shrink for the first time in a few month. Good visit. Wanted to see what I could do better for some coping skills, try to see if there are things I can do better for the kids, get a grasp of how I'm doing.

Things went well. I feel like a mess but she says I'm right where I should be, a few of the coping things I've done make sense, keep doing the 180, keep working out, try to do fun things. I'm a little depressed, but nothing to worry about getting on meds or that type of thing for.

Long discussion about dating, she asked if I had. I had not dated previous to last visit. Mixed message, shouldn't because not divorced yet I should get out and do something, not be afraid to date, just not seriously. Also not to feel guilty, she left. Kinda confusing...


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Went to a shrink for the first time in a few month. Good visit. Wanted to see what I could do better for some coping skills, try to see if there are things I can do better for the kids, get a grasp of how I'm doing.
> 
> Things went well. I feel like a mess but she says I'm right where I should be, a few of the coping things I've done make sense, keep doing the 180, keep working out, try to do fun things. I'm a little depressed, but nothing to worry about getting on meds or that type of thing for.
> 
> Long discussion about dating, she asked if I had. I had not dated previous to last visit. Mixed message, shouldn't because not divorced yet I should get out and do something, not be afraid to date, just not seriously. Also not to feel guilty, she left. Kinda confusing...


Find some time when you can be completely alone with no phone, kids, computer, TV, etc.

Just think. Imagine in your mind you are doing something that you enjoy. Identify what makes you happy. What is it? Picture yourself doing that and see yourself in that moment just being you...being happy and carefree.

Then spend some time everyday pursuing that image, that moment. Make that your goal. Make it happen.

Whatever it is that you see yourself doing shouldn't be dependent upon a romantic partners participation. If it is then you are living for the world, and the world can reject you at any time for any reason.

Love yourself and pursue your happiness. The rest will follow naturally.


----------



## tom67

Pictureless said:


> Find some time when you can be completely alone with no phone, kids, computer, TV, etc.
> 
> Just think. Imagine in your mind you are doing something that you enjoy. Identify what makes you happy. What is it? Picture yourself doing that and see yourself in that moment just being you...being happy and carefree.
> 
> Then spend some time everyday pursuing that image, that moment. Make that your goal. Make it happen.
> 
> Whatever it is that you see yourself doing shouldn't be dependent upon a romantic partners participation. If it is then you are living for the world, and the world can reject you at any time for any reason.
> 
> Love yourself and pursue your happiness. The rest will follow naturally.


Hmmmm...
Driving range with unlimited golf balls:corkysm60:
Oh you were talking to LBH


----------



## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> Went to a shrink for the first time in a few month. Good visit. Wanted to see what I could do better for some coping skills, try to see if there are things I can do better for the kids, get a grasp of how I'm doing.
> 
> Things went well. I feel like a mess but she says I'm right where I should be, a few of the coping things I've done make sense, keep doing the 180, keep working out, try to do fun things. I'm a little depressed, but nothing to worry about getting on meds or that type of thing for.
> 
> Long discussion about dating, she asked if I had. I had not dated previous to last visit. Mixed message, shouldn't because not divorced yet I should get out and do something, not be afraid to date, just not seriously. Also not to feel guilty, she left. Kinda confusing...


It is confusing.

I don't think there is a road map that is for everyone. You have to make your own way, listening to your inner compass and working to say engaged and not spiral down. It gets more manageable with each passing week, but there are still lots of ups and downs. At least that is how it is for me.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Update of sorts.

Got a goofy letter from her attorney, she's very bored and desperate. It was solved when I received it or it was issues she hasn't tackled that aren't my problem.

She's trying to pull a fast one on the house. Thank God I did some documentation earlier. 

Seems to be more likely a bi polar break is the root cause of her issues. Definitely explains her money habits, revisionist history, and moods. I continue to be amazed at her ability to spend money.

I've almost eliminated dating but have interest in a lady I'm getting to know slowly. She has been promoted to me locally and I continue to run into her more and more. I was reluctant to talk to her after seeing her with ex for a bit at a game a few weeks ago but she always seems friendlier than ever. I was very impressed at an event the other day, something happened to her that put her in a bit of danger and she shrugged it off and went right back to the activity, pretty cool. She was really calm under pressure as I talked her through what to do to be safe. One of her children has also asked me for some help with a hobby and she asked me for some advice about her property. Suffice it to say I got pulled in to doing some work, offering suggestions, helping the child, etc. I did her a favor today without telling her first and she just called to thank me. We had a nice conversation that got into some other topics, I've probably spent an hour talking in person or the phone in the past few days. She didn't realize some of my education and I didn't realize all of hers either. I'm impressed her kids are nice and well-behaved. Almost scarily so!

I'm going to stick with the theory she's a single mom with a bunch of kids that needs some "guy" help now and then. She's smart, nice and friendly. I know a woman won't fix me, I have to fix me. But if something develops, great. I won't push too hard.

She asked me twice if I'd be where she is tomorrow  before she hung up.

Divorce + surgery you didn't want while being awake and no painkillers. 

Ok, I did cut loose with a bunch of friends last nice. Good time.


----------



## Chuck71

promoted to you...... she a female boxer????


----------



## LBHmidwest

Small town people do love to play matchmaker! Within a few weeks of wife leaving I had people telling me this lady sure is nice... I didn't even know who she was then.


----------



## Chuck71

you would laugh your arse off if I told you have my grandparents

met back in the 1930s. Small towns do have their idiosyncrasies


----------



## Pictureless

LBHmidwest said:


> Small town people do love to play matchmaker! Within a few weeks of wife leaving I had people telling me this lady sure is nice... I didn't even know who she was then.


Keep an open mind. Don't engage with the intent of gaining a girlfriend, try to become her friend first. 

You can never have too many friends. And good friends look out for you.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Ya, life is funny. Kids met a cousin today, mom doesn't even know her blood nephew was born. Showed up at a public event sans bra. Never seen that in 20 years. Whole new her...

Never too many friends. New neighbor, married with kids introduced herself tonight. Wants her kids to play with mine this weekend. About the same ages, I ok'd it.

Dealt with a goofball motion. I swear she is not of the logical world. I hope the judge sees that somehow some way.

Never enough friends.


----------



## LBHmidwest

New dude showed up while STBXW had kids... Almost perfect to what I suspected. Former local that lives a little under an hour away now.

Fits like a glove


----------



## bandit.45

You were bound to see her true lifestyle at some point. How's the D progressing? When is your next court date?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

Supposedly in August. Meeting with attorney tomorrow. 

There isn't a single day she doesn't pull something. I'm just numb numb numb.

In November my thought was, an others, that it would be a local guy but lived a little ways away. True dat...

Thanks Bandit, I'm just feeling better than I thought in some ways and way worse in others.

Tough when your kids are telling you they are sick of mom pushing them so hard in athletics and they aren't even 10.


----------



## Chuck71

anytime you push something on kids, they end up hating it

it's always hard seeing you STBX or your X with someone else

but what makes it hurt is you recall who she used to be

get used to seeing different guys with her, she will have no 

regard as to how it will affect the kids. My 2nd love's mom 

would have a different guy every month and..... bragged about it.

Eventually, 2nd love...... did exactly as her mom did.

Hang in there....... just be glad you are riding yourself of her


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> New dude showed up while STBXW had kids... Almost perfect to what I suspected. Former local that lives a little under an hour away now.
> 
> Fits like a glove


Hmmm who told you ages ago there was almost assuredly a guy and that not all affairs are 24/7 fvckfests and that sneaking him in under the radar would be easy with that garage door.

Hmmm who was that...

The who told you this is... The name is...

#yankchain


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm with you WL, I think you pegged it as 75%... I was pretty sure but until this weekend she was careful. Must figure she's home free and far enough past leaving me to give doubt to the community of when he showed up. However... I think many will assume it was a long standing thing.

Worst part. He's a deuche bag through and through, but monied. Kind of weird wimp actually. He must have reached her emotional level. 

Kids didn't mention him so it wasn't obvious at least. It was around other people. Wonder what her family really thinks now


----------



## Pictureless

On the bright side, at least you know now...if that still matters to you.

In your brain wish her well and keep moving on. You're better off without her.

Time to step up now. Control your passions and hold your tongue. And lead. Show your kids the man--a REAL MAN--that STBXW will miss someday when the fog lifts. And it will...it always does.

The best revenge is being happy. It leads to complete indifference too.


----------



## ReidWright

so she kept the OM underground through all of this, since Thanksgiving? (sorry I didn't read 100% of the older messages).

That's some incredible covering up. Like CIA level stealth.

I know you're done with her, but do you have any idea of the timeline now? how'd they meet? 

I've heard affairs like this usually last a year (then the new relationship energy has worn off), so if she told you on Thanksgiving, I bet they were an item for three months before that. So watch for a possible fallout.

Since this guy will be around your kids a great deal of the time, you might want to further investigate him.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I've known him 22 years, she and he were probably in high school together, I think she's slightly younger. Her weight loss began in earnest last September.

Sounds dumb, my guess would be coincidence, facebook, that type of thing. Also could be she did have a guy and this is number 2 or 3. I'll never know unless she or someone tells me. The key thing is he has a nearby but very remote property she could be seen near but not be thought of out of the ordinary and lives very close to hear sister in a big town less than an hour away. Very convenient... Plus he's here all the time too.

One second I want to end it all, the next I'm ok with it. The lows don't get as low as they used to. Even this.

I've lost a ton of weight, 20 lbs less than I did 25 years ago now.

As they said in divorce class, no one controls their spouse when married, nothing I can do now.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Worst part. He's a deuche bag through and through, but monied. QUOTE]
> 
> :rofl: Hell they're made for each other
> 
> two empty shallow people will never stroke one another's ego
> 
> it's a first person thing, not third person
> 
> that has as much chance lasting as I do
> 
> being on the cover of Sports Illustrated


----------



## LBHmidwest

Kids said mom forgot to feed them the other night. They brushed their teeth and went to their bed on their own at ten. She yells to them to come to supper after 10 pm.

And I'm going to likely get my ass kicked in this state. Fn travesty.


----------



## LongWalk

How much time do you have with your kids now?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## LBHmidwest

just less than 6 days in 14


----------



## Chuck71

make a note through your lawyer, "if your STBX can not feed her

children in a timely manner, child welfare services will be contacted

and you will attempt to obtain full custody."

I'm betting she made sure her POSOM had a nice dinner and

just....forgot about the kids. How old are the girls? If she has a 

pattern of this emerging, judge may want to look into this.

Question, if children are 50 / 50 why did you post 6 out of 14 days?


----------



## LBHmidwest

If I said 50 / 50 my mistake, what I want, don't have it now. started with only every other weekend and an eve til I took her to court.

Got a lot of info last night, good to hear the community is sick of her act and thinks she's crazy. Doesn't help me, just validating for what good it does.


----------



## Chuck71

get 7 / 14, she does 6 /14 for a reason

time to blow up her plans

when you do

be sure to tell her "have a nice day"


----------



## LBHmidwest

I hope... judges in this state seem to prefer 2-4 in 14


----------



## Chuck71

ask why. if you do not agree, investigate the true why

write an op-ed in your paper

as a writer

I like to make noise

I prefer to be hated but respected

than liked but seen as weak


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> ask why. if you do not agree, investigate the true why
> 
> write an op-ed in your paper
> 
> as a writer
> 
> I like to make noise
> 
> I prefer to be hated but respected
> 
> than liked but seen as weak


Perfect


----------



## LBHmidwest

I was reading pictureless saying that when they can't hurt us we are past them.

We'll I'm not yet. I'm hearing terrible stories from my kids and others about her behaviors, dress, and so on. I've seen some of it myself.

45 going on 18, and she was a very mature 18 so I have no idea what this is but it does get me.

Trying to hang in there.

First lady I ever dated seemed to be a friend zoner, both of us stayed in touch, occasionally go out, suddenly it seems to be clicking over time more so. I actually was on a date a few weeks after going out with her and ran into her on a date with a different woman, she was kinda peeved but at the time I told her, "Hey, you didn't want to go out that night!" She took it in stride and we continued to talk, see each other now and then. Been Working into things gradually but I like smart and man is she,plus kind, considerate, caring and perceptive.

She definitely keeps my head in the right direction in a good way, doesn't put up with pity party stuff which is good for me but she does it in a kind way. Seems to know when to jab me, make me think, or give me some support.

That... is a nice talent to be around. She says I do the same for her. We'll see. Spending some time with her and kids this week at a lake, she coincidentally is there at the same time at her family's place. Also met her family at a July 4th party and passed the test, yes, I knew it was a test though they all claim it isn't, right


----------



## Chuck71

congratulations on the gal situation. she knew she had no say when

you were seen out with someone else. you're "dating"

Your STBX has to justify her incompetence by dressing as the age

she is acting like


----------



## LBHmidwest

Funny how quick people notice someone in halter tops without bras hanging around high school boys at events... shocking that's noticed.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Funny how quick people notice someone in halter tops without bras hanging around high school boys at events... shocking that's noticed.


:wtf:
The cheese is really sliding off her cracker.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I thought it was just me. I had a community member, woman, just go on and on and on about her this weekend. Naming dates, stories, etc. I know she's partying with her crazy friend, guy showed up, she's getting closer to divorce and can't help herself.

It's amazing how loud and the exaggerated body language she displays have came about. 

Well. I have a kid free night with my special friend tomorrow in a new house she bought. Her master bedroom is about as big as my house. I can care less about money but I'm impressed how well she does, handles her finances, and so on. Would be a big difference from me making all the money. I could live with that, surprisingly actually to realize I could be 2nd in the earning.


----------



## LongWalk

Your STBX is in the heat.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## LBHmidwest

LongWalk said:


> Your STBX is in the heat.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


That's makes me rosy inside. She was 19 and a virgin when we started dating. And I 100% believed her too.

Perhaps there is a lot of pent up childhood coming out. 

I'm getting my groove on to so I guess I can't complain.


----------



## Pictureless

It's human nature to wonder about the EX and what she's doing, but I'm hoping for you that after the divorce is final the only time you will have to deal with her is concerning co-parenting.

Out of sight, out of mind really is the best. It helps speed up the healing on the road to indifference. 

The best thing I've read recently was Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood by Dennis Rainey. Not a marriage or divorce book per se, but a book about being a man. 

I'm not suggesting you're not a man; just saying this book helped me when my wife rejected and divorced me. 

Lots of lessons in the book I forgot over the past few years. Controlling passions. Leading. Keeping silent instead of speaking out.

Let bozo walk around with her knockers hanging out....it speaks for itself. Keep loving your kids and doing right. You know the truth. That's all that matters.


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> Funny how quick people notice someone in halter tops without bras hanging around high school boys at events... shocking that's noticed.


LOL and if shes over 40... other things are hanging more than they used to

#apologizestofemalemembersherethenrunslaughing


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> LOL and if shes over 40... other things are hanging more than they used to
> 
> #apologizestofemalemembersherethenrunslaughing


----------



## LBHmidwest

Crazy just gets worse. Feel so sorry for my children. Every time I have them for my extended period they just decompress, lots of sharing, sleeping, wanting to be held, heard, safe. Kills me, not much I can do. More inlaws have reached out with concern - THEIR problem.

Case has been postponed officially, I'm very disappointed.

Continue to see one lady as it works for us. She told me she doesn't want to be serious, just have fun, relax and things will go as they go - don't overthink right now. Works for me! That was followed by some occasional recent outstanding overnight dates. She is very positive and kind, a huge plus.

Been out having some fun. Probably a little too much but I had some amazing times on a vacation recently. I approached vacation like I did a college weekend. I was mainly with couples but our large group had singles too. It's nice being where the water, booze and music mix! We had some gorgeous women, beautiful boats and were living it up so we were pretty noticeable.

I just worked at being relaxed. I have worked out hard, modernized my haircut, bought some new clothes, wear a nice watch, bit of jewelry now and then. I tried to mix with women that caught my attention. I'd hang with group and if someone caught my eye I'd just go over, introduce myself, maybe use some humor, and just try to be my fun self. tried to be myself, show a little humor and interest in them. Interestingly I found a couple of times that even in the lady I wanted to meet didn't have interest... a friend would.

This sounds very shallow, and ya, it probably was but I had a couple of amazing nights. I have to pinch myself honestly. I have found that women have no problem going after what they want if the mood is right and the setting is ideal. 

I'm not there, hanging on some days, but life is moving forward and the "old" and the "improved" me are coming out more days in sync.


----------



## weightlifter

Amazing what getting laid will do aint it?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Well... I met some very special ladies, smart, beautiful, amazing careers and alluring in many ways. One lives a few hours away, we are trying to make some plans for next week.

I have found that short term "fun" doesn't fix anything, just a distraction. But a very pleasant one.


----------



## weightlifter

#emotevoicefromthepast (behold the power of cheese)

Behold! The power of VAGINA!

I rather doubt you are in a true position to take and truly hold a woman's heart yet.. So the short term duty. Someone has to do it!


----------



## bandit.45

LBHmidwest said:


> Well... I met some very special ladies, smart, beautiful, amazing careers and amazing in many ways. One lives a few hours away, we are trying to make some plans for next week.
> 
> I have found that short term "fun" doesn't fix anything, just a distraction. But a very pleasant one.


Don't underestimate the way it's rebuilding your confidence and sense of masculinity. 

And it may have the added effect of pissing your STBXWW off to no end when she finds out you are servicing all those honeys. Payback is sweet.


----------



## happyman64

Cheers to the "old", "new" and "improved" LBH.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks guys. On one hand it is great. I'm much more aware of women, opportunities, flirting that I used to be. I helped a girl pick "cheater" glasses in a store the other day. She just starts asking for help out of the blue. I wasn't into her but I just knew somehow I could have asked her out/number and got a yes. Maybe I was wrong but I don't think so. I was in a suit, killing time before a meeting.

Dating is NOT easy. There is a LOT of CRAZY. I've been burned already.

I'm also pretty certain ex has heard about the dating and might be part of the new crazier her. I made sure to let a few mouths know I had an amazing time on vacation, I weigh less than when I got married, new hair cut has been noticed, etc. it will get back to her  

I have more weight to lose, case isn't finished, kids are my priority.

If I had my finances and kids, I'd be much happier, that I know.

Truthfully, in most ways I am a better man than I was. I also worry that I sunk into this "phase" of adolescence. I appreciate all of you, sincerely. In a year I hope I'm much better. I worry I could slide all the way off the cracker too


----------



## bandit.45

Just enjoy the ride man...

Enjoy the women and the fun. Live your life. Don't get bogged down in guilt or self doubt. You are doing nothing wrong. Your STBXWW is the one who did wrong, not you.


----------



## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks guys. On one hand it is great. I'm much more aware of women, opportunities, flirting that I used to be. I helped a girl pick "cheater" glasses in a store the other day. She just starts asking for help out of the blue. I wasn't into her but I just knew somehow I could have asked her out/number and got a yes. Maybe I was wrong but I don't think so. I was in a suit, killing time before a meeting.
> 
> Dating is NOT easy. There is a LOT of CRAZY. I've been burned already.
> 
> I'm also pretty certain ex has heard about the dating and might be part of the new crazier her. I made sure to let a few mouths know I had an amazing time on vacation, I weigh less than when I got married, new hair cut has been noticed, etc. it will get back to her
> 
> I have more weight to lose, case isn't finished, kids are my priority.
> 
> If I had my finances and kids, I'd be much happier, that I know.
> 
> Truthfully, in most ways I am a better man than I was. I also worry that I sunk into this "phase" of adolescence. I appreciate all of you, sincerely. In a year I hope I'm much better. I worry I could slide all the way off the cracker too


Ah, don't worry about it. I think it is all natural and the phase will end eventually.


----------



## Chuck71

LBH..... didn't you say at one time your X said you never could sleep

with another woman? :rofl: Should have placed $$ on that!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chuck71 said:


> LBH..... didn't you say at one time your X said you never could sleep
> 
> with another woman? :rofl: Should have placed $$ on that!


She always said I'd never sleep with another woman. It was more of a sweet thing, I didn't want to. We had a great sex life.

I was just thinking about what I was doing this time last week.

Kids opened up more tonight. My God STBXW is cruel. She just is so hard on them, so wrong in how she fights through them. She is trying to fight through them with her siblings even.

10 months in and no parenting plan and she hasn't taken the required classes. I can only hope the judge has an ounce of common sense and can see through her.

I'd rather have my girls than doing what I did last week. But someday I'll find a happy balance again I hope.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> She always said I'd never sleep with another woman. It was more of a sweet thing, I didn't want to. We had a great sex life.
> 
> I was just thinking about what I was doing this time last week.
> 
> Kids opened up more tonight. My God STBXW is cruel. She just is so hard on them, so wrong in how she fights through them. She is trying to fight through them with her siblings even.
> 
> 10 months in and no parenting plan and she hasn't taken the required classes. I can only hope the judge has an ounce of common sense and can see through her.
> 
> I'd rather have my girls than doing what I did last week. But someday I'll find a happy balance again I hope.


So sorry
She needs a psych evaluation big time.


----------



## Chuck71

it's sad when the kids are played out as pawns

luckily only one parent is doing that in your case

my 2nd love went through that, especially her little brother

when he came home from his dad's, his mom's first 

question was "where's the check"...... not 'how was your weekend'

or 'did you have a good time'


----------



## LBHmidwest

So when the ex wears lycra all day at a public event, one of the 2 out of 300 women there to do so... is that a message lol.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> So when the ex wears lycra all day at a public event, one of the 2 out of 300 women there to do so... is that a message lol.


Were the high school boys hitting on her?


----------



## bandit.45

LBHmidwest said:


> So when the ex wears lycra all day at a public event, one of the 2 out of 300 women there to do so... is that a message lol.


She did it to goad you. She's a moron.


----------



## LBHmidwest

It still works....

Yes, some were hanging with her. 

Had to leave early then sent me lovey texts to send with girls about how much she cares. Ya, she doesn't work on Saturday night.


----------



## bandit.45

LBHmidwest said:


> It still works....
> 
> Yes, some were hanging with her.
> 
> Had to leave early then sent me lovey texts to send with girls about how much she cares. Ya, she doesn't work on Saturday night.


Phhhhhbbbttttt...up hers. One day you will be free from her mess.


----------



## LBHmidwest

One of my fears is that no, I never will be free from her. Never ever.

Church lady made a point to sit with me for 45 minutes after service was over today. She seems really great, but it bugs me she talks to ex too.

I just stay away. Maybe down the road.... I currently try to avoid women that seem like they could actually be a good match long term.


----------



## Chuck71

You are nowhere near ready for a LTR

if the only way your X can get attention is to dress like a [email protected]

well, there isn't much else there to offer

any woman worth her salt will leave something "to the imagination"

of the guy. But.....one thing great may come out of this, your X

may get frisky with a cute senior and go all the way with him

and........ be put on the sex offender registry.... God knows that guy

would brag to anyone within earshot! And the end result would be

full custody for LBH


----------



## LBHmidwest

The killer is she looks way better in her 40's than she did in her 20's and the weight loss pills worked.

It's hard, very hard to turn off 20+ years of loving someone. I try, but I can't deny that pain, especially when the kids are with me and want their family together, when she's flirting/getting attention in our sight, when I feel alone in a town where I used to talk to everyone. I know the alone part I've done to myself, even in a crowd I just stay quiet. Someone did tell me it's perceived as being dignified, self contained. But...I do hurt for my children and while I know I have to let loose "what should have been" it isn't something that just clicks.

One day at a time. 

Over time I know things are better. I was so hopeful to get this trial over.

Thanks guys.


----------



## SawbladeLily

LBHmidwest said:


> It's hard, very hard to turn off 20+ years of loving someone. I try, but I can't deny that pain, especially when the kids are with me and want their family together


I hear you there. It's hard when you live in a small town and everyone knows you too. We live in a small town in Maine where pretty much everybody knows everybody, and since I used to serve on various boards and organizations in the region, really everybody knows me. But as yet, not a lot of people know about the pending divorce. The kids were not ready to tell friends and talk about it much, and since STBX works and spends most of his time out of town and abroad, it doesn't look much different on the outside. So people are often asking where STBX is this week, or just stuff in general. I just smile and give the usual answers and don't go into anything because I'm not one to air my dirty laundry in public. But then I wonder if that is the wrong way because it gives me a little twist too, and I don't want to lose my family. I like being a family, and I liked being a family unit. That's when I get really pissed at what STBX has done. To the kids and the family! I don't want him back, but I want my family "home" back. I want the man I married back, but he's long gone. My oldest even said the other day that she's not even sure who her father is anymore, because he's not the man that she thought her father was. So we trudge on. Small town offers comfort for me because my roots are here, but it can also add to the emotions too. I'm very glad we settled back here because of the extended family, but I hate the thought of everyone knowing my private business.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I feel for you Lily, love the author Paul Doiron from Maine, the other author lol.

You sound a lot like me.

98% of the time I'm the model parent through a divorce.

But I wasn't tonight. I just lost it. Been around her far far far too much this weekend. I was so hoping she wouldn't come to some events but she did. 

Last night she left before the kids were done and didn't tell them where or why. I don't care, I know.

Tonight she's going on and on about how she spent the night and day with her sister. Uhhhh yeah, right.

I told the kids it was a lie, period, no question. I shouldn't have done it but I just get sick of it

Got a text to go for drinks tomorrow night with someone from divorce class way back when. She wants to "catch up". I told her straight up it could be fun but I'm not a relationship guy, I'm not good for anyone. Her reply, she isn't either and first drink on her and we'll go from there. Her kids are with her STBXH. I've figured out that code already.

Ya, I'm stupid but any port in the storm and I need a diversion now and then...


----------



## SawbladeLily

Have you ever watched North Woods Law? (or is it Lawmen?) The new book from Doiron is just out. I haven't read it but I've seen it in town. 

Good for you getting out and having the social fun. That's another problem with small town - I don't dare. Haha... I had to go over 1,000 miles for my first night out on the town in 25 years with another man.  
But I guess that doesn't really count because it was an old friend I went out with years ago just before I met my husband. It was fun though. Just what I needed. It's nice to get some attention that makes you remember who you used to be! I go out with a group of friends and that's fun too, but I've refused offers to actually go on a "date". I know as soon as I do, everybody is going to be talking about it, and I'm just not ready to deal with that yet. Worse, my girls are not ready to deal with that. It was ok to go visit and get away with an old friend, but the whole idea of mom dating other men that they know is not welcome yet. It only took about a week after they were told the news of divorce to make those connections, and one of them asked flat out "Does this mean you are going to be going out with other men?". I was honest and said probably yes, someday, but not too soon because there is too much I need to work through first. They've been really good though, and at one point were even joking about trying to pick out a suitable boyfriend, and preferably one with older boys because they would like and older brother or two. Funny girls. I knew then that we all were going to be ok. One step at a time.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I have not went on a date within an hour of where I live. I have actually ran into people I know on dates but it's ok. Ethically, I was left behind so I don't feel bad about it anymore. And I've never lied to a woman, my divorce is in process.

Good idea with kids. Same thing I do. They WANT me to have a girlfriend, but I tell them my focus is on them and it is when I have them. I have never left the girls for any reason during their time with me except a couple of work events. If their mother gave them to me when she is gone, I would return the favor but after doing so to start, she did not reciprocate.

Good for you to get out, feel good, have fun, get some attention. It's hard to start over dating. I didn't date a lot before getting married, seems to almost scare women.

Funny thing is my STBXW bagged on me for some of the things I'm good at but it seems to be exactly what other women want for themselves and kids. It's a big world. You'll do well, you sound really together.


----------



## SawbladeLily

I'm actually very lucky in a way too. I had some acquaintances about a half hour from here that happened to be at the same event I was on the day after I found out about infidelity.Of course they could see something was wrong and I spilled my guts to them. One had just gone through that and was just finalizing divorce. She immediately introduced me to her friend who had gone through the same a couple years ago. They both took me under their wing and gave me a list of what to do immediately (lawyer, find papers, how to protect myself, etc). Since then we've become very good friends and we will often go out together with a group of single friends. One has been dating again, so that man will join us sometimes, and there are also a couple of men in the same boat too who are part of this social group. It's very easy-going and people come and go as they have time. It's very nice because we can go out, dance (or not) and just be generally supportive of each other and have fun. It's great because we are mostly all in the same place as far as relationships go so no pressure (like being set up on a date). So in a way, my kids have indeed helped... I met up with these angels at a sporting event for our kids! It helped me get through a rough winter, and re-find something I had lost in myself, or thought was gone, and that alone has given me a lot of strength and confidence. It's nice to be around people who have "been there, done that", much like this website.


----------



## SawbladeLily

LBHmidwest said:


> Good for you to get out, feel good, have fun, get some attention. It's hard to start over dating. I didn't date a lot before getting married, seems to almost scare women.


I think I can understand that too... If you didn't date a lot before you were married, and then were married for 20 years, women could wonder if now you are making up for lost time and are going to become a player. I have to say based on my own personal experience, that's a valid fear. In fact, that scenario is also why I forgave the first infidelity and decided to stay with my STBX 15 years ago. He had not dated a lot and was younger than me by 3 years when we met. I did see how he could get into that excitement of dating and the thrill of the chase etc, and I forgave that first time. I myself had dated quite a bit and had a wild streak for a number of years. It's funny looking back now after being together for almost 25 years. I was the wild one when we met and had done a lot of crazy things, but as soon as I met my husband, that was all behind me. I never thought I would ever get married because I didn't like the way men would wander. But then my STBX was so different, and he has such a wonderful family who also are very stable and loving and committed. I believed I finally had met someone who I could trust and I envisioned a life-time of love and commitment. 

So me, the wild one settled down and committed fully and faithfully, and the nice boy from a good family turned into a serial cheater. Go figure. Now that you made that comment, I wonder if he had sown his proverbial oats first, would he have been more stable and faithful? But then you are contrary to that thought, so I guess it is what it is. We'd be billionaires if we could figure out any way to predict all that. 

Yes, I can see why not having dated much could seem a little scary to women. But then again, going out with someone who has been around the block more than a few times also seems scary, so I would say the bottom line is, dating again is scary no matter what for some people. Gee, that was a helpful answer, wasn't it?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I missed the part about North Woods law, seen it. I like those type of shows but it seems like since the divorce started I don't watch much TV.

Hmmm, hadn't thought about the part of "wild oats". I had slept with a fair amount of women but hadn't dated much medium or long term.

Just thought I'd meet someone, love her, get married and that was it. One day I woke up and it was gone.

Cool you have a group like that, sounds very relaxing and fun. Good to have "road maps" to go through this. My friends are all very married and most of my advice has been - be good, be fair, be kind, a few were on me to stop the financial stuff right away and I didn't, that was wrong. The "good advice" just served to get my tail kicked on about everything court wise and ever since.

I don't get a big thrill from the chase. I'd rather have a kind, considerate woman with a passion and love in her eyes, brains, makes me a better man, loves kids and someone other people respect and admire because she's a joy to be around.

I'm just not a serial conquest guy. Maybe I'm turning into one though


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm going to enter some intensive weekly counseling for various reasons. If anyone has any advice, I'd appreciate it. Going to Ph.D. that specializes in helping those who can't seem to move on going through a divorce.

Friends/colleagues insisted, they just worry I'm not getting past this.

I would contend there is a lot to get past including things other than the divorce that have happened on the side but off I go.

Hopefully I'll have my Good Will Hunting breakthrough.


----------



## LBHmidwest

This is an article worth sharing

How to Help People Going Through a Divorce | RELEVANT Magazine


----------



## tom67

I went through ic for about a year in 2010.
You'll be fine it's normal.


----------



## tom67

What really gets to you from what you said is the shape mentally the girls are in when they are dropped off.
That would wear on anyone (with a conscience)


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks Tom.

This divorce has felt like I play on the team that plays against the Globetrotters.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I've had some but this is supposed to be intensive. I have no idea what to expect. Hope it helps.

It's funny, people act like I/some of you here don't WANT to be happy, back to our old selves.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks Tom.
> 
> This divorce has felt like I play on the team that plays against the Globetrotters.


I remember those games.
I was lucky we settled and I "only" paid a little under $11,000 with her and my attorney.
I don't know this is probably stupid but maybe if you can have a 5 min. talk with her how all the $$$ will be going to the shysters and just start towards a settlement.
Of course her shyster will play the game that she is getting screwed blah blah.
Eh just a thought maybe not a good one.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Her mother is paying all expenses. The strategy is to liquidate me. I'm over 14k in legal expenses already. Settlement will be low to mid 6 figures. Plus custody remains a nightmare. She wants 100%, insane, I've filed for 50.

We'll go to court ordered mediation now. It will be pointless. I won't give an inch and she loves the temporary agreement in place because she hid a ton of income in 2013 until May of this year, well after the agreement and discovery.

It will come out a trial... someday.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Her mother is paying all expenses. The strategy is to liquidate me. I'm over 14k in legal expenses already. Settlement will be low to mid 6 figures. Plus custody remains a nightmare. She wants 100%, insane, I've filed for 50.
> 
> We'll go to court ordered mediation now. It will be pointless. I won't give an inch and she loves the temporary agreement in place because she hid a ton of income in 2013 until May of this year, well after the agreement and discovery.
> 
> It will come out a trial... someday.


So your lawyer did a citation to discover assets.
Good.


----------



## LBHmidwest

She ignored discovery.... showed up when she finally provided documents for taxes. She requested an extension... should have know something was up. Some income disappeared, some showed up. She has spent more than 30k on attorneys I'd guess, or her family has... Money is not an issue to her but they want all of mine and my kids and possessions.

My attorney constantly says "people like her pay people like you to go away - this is the reverse". But, they are enjoying it, they just are that way.


----------



## tom67

Ugh
The judge may have golfed with one of them or he worked for one of their firms.
Sadly it is corrupt.

Protect yourself as best you can.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Just the timing of it all. No hanky panky I know of, legally


----------



## LongWalk

What a drag they are making it.
Fight on.


----------



## barbados

tom67 said:


> Ugh
> The judge may have golfed with one of them or he worked for one of their firms.
> Sadly it is corrupt.
> 
> Protect yourself as best you can.


Sad but so often true Tom. 

Going to a court to get justice is like going to a prostitute to get love. The reality is all either of them want is your money and all you get is screwed !


----------



## Chuck71

karma will make sure one day your X and her family will realize

you can't buy tomorrows with yesterday's money


----------



## Chuck71

how are things proceeding?


----------



## weightlifter

Drive by hello to LBH


----------



## LBHmidwest

Not sure what to say guys. Thanks for asking.

Not good, divorce finish line in sight, I hope.

I remain amazed that this creature once was the object of my devoted love and affection or that we ever had a life together.

I wish I had words of profound meaning, or a positive spin. I just don't.


----------



## Chuck71

Would be nice to send a youtube True Colors by Cyndi Lauper but....

it's nothing you already haven't went through. Focus on you and the 

daughters. Things will fall into place as we have stated. I know that is

partially impossible to believe right now....but they will. They 99.9%

always do. How are you taking care of you? Any positive milestones

for your girls? When I went through my he!!, she could have 

physically "kicked my arse"....no joke. After it was over and "the clouds

parted"...I was ready to step in the ring with Mike Tyson. Would I have

won? Who knows....but he would have GD sure known....I was there.

Stay strong LBH


----------



## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> Not sure what to say guys. Thanks for asking.
> 
> Not good, divorce finish line in sight, I hope.
> 
> I remain amazed that this creature once was the object of my devoted love and affection or that we ever had a life together.
> 
> I wish I had words of profound meaning, or a positive spin. I just don't.




You're in the final sprint. She isn't that person and probably hasn't been for a very long time.


----------



## LBHmidwest

My set of rules for those blindsided by a long-time spouse with kids, money, property and crazy/mean ex.

Especially if you are male with more income, retirement, etc.

1. When you get the I don't love you. Stop. Stop whatever you want to do. No more talk, listening, anything. Go to work, love your kids, get an attorney. Do NOTHING without thinking.

2. Get an attorney

3. Stop all your money going anywhere but you, freeze/grab what you can.

4. Stop communicating except for kids. Only respond to medical, educational issues. Clearly communicate yours to them too.

5. Do NOT give up any time with kids, house, cars, anything. Insist on 50/50 day one - period.

6. Never text or email until you absolutely have to, have friends read them before you send if it's at all critical, possibly mean. Innocent stuff is even a problem.

7. I'm a horrible example but don't vilify yourself.

8. Love up your kids, examine yourself, workout, go to divorce care classes, parenting classes, learn new things.

9. Don't ABSOLUTELY need it, don't buy it. Kids don't need everything you think either.

10. Don't let ex take all your/kids stuff.

11. Don't cooperate at all unless they are demonstrating cooperation and care. If they don't, they are only interested in taking everything they can including your soul.

12. Get help, counseling, friends, church, work, anything you can.

13. Splurge on yourself once in awhile. You just have to. You can't martyr everything. That said, be careful with your money.

14. Be calm, polite, don't communicate anything you don't have to. You want them to feel your wrath, it won't help, they don't care and you have to stop caring.

15. Don't give up. Get up, shower, go to work, give yourself passes but don't indulge.

16. People do care, but you will wear them out. It just happens.

17 - cut all the ties you can - couple friends, facebook, don't assume people hate you though, they don't usually. Most will be on your side if you have dignity, weren't a jerk, and don't torch your ex in public. Let them burn themselves. People know.

18. Vent to who you can, but remember, there are spies.

19. Sleep is impossible, feel free to get some help there. Do it early, not late. A few months of bad sleep is when you need help.

20. They weren't who you thought. When and if you date, you will see that in others and be shocked at what you accepted as good in a mate.

Don't give them an inch. They already took a mile before you knew they were leaving.


----------



## Fenix

Number 20 especially. This shocked me.


----------



## Chuck71

I agree Fenix. Was it a masterful smoke screen or do we become complacent? 

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me,"- Ty Cobb


----------



## LBHmidwest

Part of her family was going after her last night. The part on my side.

I found myself just torn apart. I LOVED her for 26 years, whatever she was.

This wasn't the movie where it starts a steady decline. This was the movie where everything is going up, then a few months of confusion and gone.

I had to reread a bunch of things for legal reasons. Weird to see how everything is fine, then one day it's weird, a week later it's gone. I've never come to grips with the what, why, how, who and it kills my personality to not understand something.


----------



## weightlifter

Still think there was a low intensity affair.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I think there was some type of dalliance, but I think it ended. She has not been missing for chunks of time the last month or two like she was before. She was always gone, now she answers every time the kids call and doesn't leave town.

The deeper I got into things the more it was a power play by her mother with $$$ and promises.


----------



## bandit.45

Stay the course LBH. You will soon be free of a lamprey sucking your soul out.


----------



## Fenix

Chuck71 said:


> I agree Fenix. Was it a masterful smoke screen or do we become complacent?
> 
> "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me,"- Ty Cobb



Chuck, for me, this is the most difficult thing to deal with. How could I have been so stupid? I haven't yet learned how to forgive myself for that.


----------



## bandit.45

LBHmidwest said:


> I think there was some type of dalliance, but I think it ended. She has not been missing for chunks of time the last month or two like she was before. She was always gone, now she answers every time the kids call and doesn't leave town.
> 
> The deeper I got into things the more it was a power play by her mother with $$$ and promises.


Oh I think it went way deep. You will probably never know for sure, but I would bet it went PA. That's why she was such a merciless mean ass b!tch towards you...why you could never calm her down or talk rationally to her.


----------



## Chuck71

Fenix said:


> Chuck, for me, this is the most difficult thing to deal with. How could I have been so stupid? I haven't yet learned how to forgive myself for that.


It was a masquerade. A masterful one. Some of it may have been

the part of you that fell blindly. Even when you have your BS flag up,

a certain part of us will fall blindly. The feeling is compared to someone's

first hit of heroin. But your feeling, like mine and others here, was a healthy

and free high. And it does not wear off in x number of hours. We still watch out 

for the big red flags but overlook the mini ones. Before we know it, the mini are many.


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> Oh I think it went way deep. You will probably never know for sure, but I would bet it went PA. That's why she was such a merciless mean ass b!tch towards you...why you could never calm her down or talk rationally to her.


I would agree with Bandit. Her actions are clockwork with someone who is

having a PA and feeling the "second thoughts." LBH if she came to you today,

said everything you want to hear...what would you do? You would temporarily

feel much better but how long do you think it would be before all these questions

you have about what occurred, will haunt your mind again? The fact her mom may

have instigated a portion of this is worse than her having a posom. You can have

her NC a posom, you can't NC a parent...especially when you have kids. When you

fight a two front war, all the other two will do is resist enough to deplete your 

resources. It's not "if" but 'when' you will raise the white flag.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I don't want her back...

We've had a bit of legal wrangling lately. I came through with flying colors.

She was absolutely pasted, destroyed, slaughtered, ripped apart by my attorney. She doesn't even know the half of the lies he's trapped her in for trial. I almost... felt sorry for her.

I was amazed, even when he was actually very kind trying to help her help herself out of trouble, she just can't do it. Her mind is so determined the kids are hers, I'm evil, everything is her way.

He was masterful at getting her to talk, giving her rope, having the answers before she gave them and just taking her down dead end roads with no way out.

She denied an affair - I did NOT know he was going to bring that up. Then he went after some evidence that she tried to pass off as nothing. He kept after it and pointed out how her explanations could not make sense. Her own attorney was looking at her in a whole new light.

It was good, for the first time in a year, to feel like I "won" something in this break up. There is no winning. But if she goes to trial, she's toast. I don't know if she can process right now, but it was attorney 10, her 0.

I will always love the woman I knew for 26 years. My college sweetheart, the woman I raced home to see, the one that had our children, the one I thought I'd grow old with. Illusion or not it was my life and I liked it. 

I don't want this one, at all.


----------



## bandit.45

LBH, maybe she really was that person at one time. But people change bro. Sometimes they change incrementally and sometimes they do a complete 180 in their behavior, so drastically that those who know them are stunned. It happens. It's the human condition. 

I remember reading a Sherlock Holmes story, the Speckled Band I believe, and in that story Holmes describes how some people are like trees. For years they grow straight and true, but at some point they develope a boll...an abnormality, and afterwards the tree grows crooked and gnarled. 

I don't think you will ever know why your wife changed. Maybe it was the affair that changed her. Maybe she changed before the affair and you didn't notice. Maybe the change was happening so slowly that you developed the boiling frog syndrome. She upped the heat and upped the heat slowly and twisted things in a way to make everything seem normal.

Or, like you say, maybe she was always like this and your love goggles prevented you from seeing who she really was. 

Whatever it was, she is no longer your problem. I'm glad the hearing went well. Maybe it will shock into some reality, maybe it will make her hate you more. Either way, once the divorce is final you should completely shut her off and go dark. Figure out a way to do the kid transfers without having to interact with her. Maybe pick the kids up from school on the weekends or days you get them. Whatever you do, cut off contact with her as much as you can, then step back and watch the slowly unfolding train wreck her life becomes.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I try the NC. Three emails from her tonight... All stuff I have to respond to. Rather than pull back after getting cuffed, she's bolder.

Drives me nuts


----------



## Chuck71

I can relate to what you said a lot LBH. There were a lot more good times

than bad. But when it was bad....it was bad. My guess is things inside her

had to change before she had the A, to even have the A. After the A,

things continued to change and in most cases, the amount of change was

overwhelming. Get used to her erratic behavior...at least until the girls 

are 18.


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> I don't want her back...
> 
> We've had a bit of legal wrangling lately. I came through with flying colors.
> 
> She was absolutely pasted, destroyed, slaughtered, ripped apart by my attorney. She doesn't even know the half of the lies he's trapped her in for trial. I almost... felt sorry for her.
> 
> I was amazed, even when he was actually very kind trying to help her help herself out of trouble, she just can't do it. Her mind is so determined the kids are hers, I'm evil, everything is her way.
> 
> He was masterful at getting her to talk, giving her rope, having the answers before she gave them and just taking her down dead end roads with no way out.
> 
> She denied an affair - I did NOT know he was going to bring that up. Then he went after some evidence that she tried to pass off as nothing. He kept after it and pointed out how her explanations could not make sense. Her own attorney was looking at her in a whole new light.
> 
> It was good, for the first time in a year, to feel like I "won" something in this break up. There is no winning. But if she goes to trial, she's toast. I don't know if she can process right now, but it was attorney 10, her 0.
> 
> I will always love the woman I knew for 26 years. My college sweetheart, the woman I raced home to see, the one that had our children, the one I thought I'd grow old with. Illusion or not it was my life and I liked it.
> 
> I don't want this one, at all.


Remember to twist the knife before removal. She would.


----------



## ReidWright

yep, don't try to be nice and let the affair go unmentioned...put it in the divorce record. 

I'm sure she's telling your kids and everyone else that she's an angel in all of this. Make sure everyone sees her dented, tarnished halo.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I thought I'd hear an overture of settlement but maybe she wants to run right up to the trial date. If so, I don't think I'd settle anymore. I think she should have to sit there in front of a judge and get her azz handed to her. That way she'll remember it forever and when she pulls crazy emergency motions in the future, the judge will know who she is.


----------



## weightlifter

Napoleon said that. In effect. Never interefere when the enemy is destroying itself.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm learning...

Some stuff this week where she is trying to reassert control. Rather than no contact.

I let her have enough control of some things she does not understand. Now that she took the bait.

I communicated the parameters of participation on my part, asked her to describe exactly to explain her actions to the children, and complimented her on her decisions (which were stupid but she didn't understand but now does thanks to my filling in the blanks).

Fun to write the kind of emails you HOPE she brings to trial.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Wish me luck. Trial is imminent.

less than a year to tear down a lifetime


----------



## bandit.45

Good luck.


----------



## LongWalk

Remember when you once wrote:



> It's hard to rewire the brain quickly, I felt like celebrating over the first legal skirmish - first thought - I should call the wife and we go out tonight! Oops, she's what brought me here....


She made this Hell for almost a year now. Conrad and ReGroup were still here back then. Lot of water under the bridge. One element in your wife's MLC – dieting. Dadof2's wife is an amphetamine addict.


----------



## Chuck71

but no guy wants a size 6 with a schitty personality

unless..... it's a ONS

LBH...I wish you the best of luck. The journey you took

culminated in your destination. Hope to see you in LaD


----------



## LBHmidwest

I won't lie. I'm hurting so bad it's unbelievable, mainly for my children. I've been a bit careful to not put exact things down she's done but no one would believe me anyway.

She left items for the girls today in a 3 gallon Victoria's Secret bag. Really? Ok, I get the message.

At this time last year I was doing a house project, loved our cabin, kids great, financially set and a nice retirement, nice vehicles, good jobs.

Now, barely can make ends meet, trying to hang on at work, crazy ex, kids struggling, friends choosing sides.

I really will never understand the why's or the destruction. I try not to dwell anymore but it happens.

I've found out I'm a pretty good guy, good friends, have never lashed out, cheated or lied through this, kids are my priority, work does value the old me at least and trying to let me work through this, new friends, definitely some crazy adventure.

But coming home and waking up alone over half the time except for my trusty dog is a killer. Without $$$, it's hard to do fun things.

Just venting. But I sure hope she enjoys the money, mother and meat puppet(s). She is skinny, was beautiful anyway, but damn is she haggard up close and she's so loud, manic and domineering it's sad to watch.

It was like watching The Exorcist at the deposition. I hope that version comes to trial.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks everyone, meant to say that.

I think in some ways the worst part is did I live a lie? Was she that way and I was too dumb to know or did a switch get pulled?

I think... there were little signs, but then when she decided to pull the plug there was no stopping her or going back.

For the other people that have this happen with no warning. I can't emphasize enough when you get the "I love you but not enough speech". Do everything in your power to end their life and ties to you. Their use of your money, keep your kids, money, house, all of it. Don't give a dammm inch.


----------



## Chuck71

Truth is....she doesn't know either. She is not the same woman you married. Try

to remember who she "was".... before she died and turned into a bytchy, shallow

kunt. She thinks money will bring all happiness and bouncing from

guy to guy will merit a fun time. She will end up empty, broken, used up.

Did I leave anything out? Oh...in the process place numerous things above

her daughters. But all is fine, dad is there...enjoy the time you will get with them.

You will fart twice and scratch your arse and you will be walking them down the aisle.


----------



## Faithful123

sad story, get yourself to some counselling, engage family, use any support network for yourself. Focus on you and the kids as best you can. As for the affair and chasing that it only serves to torment yourself further, just leave it alone, its not relevant now, shes gone for the time being. Stay focused, make a list of what you need to do for yourself and focus on it. Eat healthy, excercise and get out of your head. Allocate yourself some worry time say an hour a day max. Catastrophise and fairy tale it all you want in this time, cry and feel upset, its normal. But always come back and focus and continuing, just keep going one day at a time, stay out of your head as much as you can, dont think about what she has done or is doing, think about what you are doing and always re focus your attention on yourself. Be strong, be consistent and at this stage dont try and get her back as that makes it worse. in time it will soften and will become easier, I promise. Best wishes.


----------



## happyman64

Sending you some strength LBH.

HM


----------



## LBHmidwest

thanks guys/ladies, I need it. Today is a dark day, hours til show time 

Saw her final witness list, HUGE, but weird.

Should be interesting.

Wish I could quit running it all through my mind


----------



## LBHmidwest

Court day is over. We are so far apart of everything. I have tried to be fair, use real numbers, fair with kids. Total opposite from her side.

She asked for over 80% of my take home pay in child support and alimony. How? She prorated a bonus and part of a year's salary. I hope judge looks at TAXES/INCOME not her worksheet.

Attorney thought it went well and he admonished us at end for not settling. 90% of admonishment at her.

Her mom slept through court and sister made evil faces all day.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Court day is over. We are so far apart of everything. I have tried to be fair, use real numbers, fair with kids. Total opposite from her side.
> 
> She asked for over 80% of my take home pay in child support and alimony. How? She prorated a bonus and part of a year's salary. I hope judge looks at TAXES/INCOME not her worksheet.
> 
> Attorney thought it went well and he admonished us at end for not settling. 90% of admonishment at her.
> 
> Her mom slept through court and sister made evil faces all day.


:wtf::wtf:


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Court day is over. We are so far apart of everything. I have tried to be fair, use real numbers, fair with kids. Total opposite from her side.
> 
> She asked for over 80% of my take home pay in child support and alimony. How? She prorated a bonus and part of a year's salary. I hope judge looks at TAXES/INCOME not her worksheet.


Did this really "surprise" you?


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Court day is over. We are so far apart of everything. I have tried to be fair, use real numbers, fair with kids. Total opposite from her side.
> 
> She asked for over 80% of my take home pay in child support and alimony. How? She prorated a bonus and part of a year's salary. I hope judge looks at TAXES/INCOME not her worksheet.
> 
> Attorney thought it went well and he admonished us at end for not settling. 90% of admonishment at her.
> 
> Her mom slept through court and sister made evil faces all day.


She only asked for 80%? so she is being amicable.....

Every settlement offer I have seen has been such an incredible joke like yours. The asking for the moon and stars should have been expected. Hopefully your judge has a tiny bit of sense and will look at the facts which is taxes and actual real documents as opposed to fancy spreadsheets which most of the time don't even add up.


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> She only asked for 80%? so she is being amicable.....
> 
> Every settlement offer I have seen has been such an incredible joke like yours. The asking for the moon and stars should have been expected. Hopefully your judge has a tiny bit of sense and will look at the facts which is taxes and actual real documents as opposed to fancy spreadsheets which most of the time don't even add up.


The fact that a judge has that much power is scary on so many levels.
Equity/Admiralty court on steroids.
Don't get me started.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I couldn't sleep last night, thought I was fine but then mind wouldn't shut off.

I was very complimentary mostly, I did get a few barbs in but her attorney opened the door.

For those of you going through a divorce. I would say the trial was very anti climatic and boring. you sit there and wish your attorney would ask a 100 questions but the trial would never get done.

I'm scared but the judge did seem to go after her. 

I can't even imagine life if the judge gives her anything close to what she wants.


----------



## weightlifter

Good luck.

You said she blew her credibility. Did judge take note?


----------



## Lostinthought61

I had a family friend get screwed by the system, he basically sold everything he had and skipped town sent a note to his ex and told her off and left the country...he brought a boat and lived on it with his new girlfriend....wife never saw a cent and eventually the kids when they got older found and visited him on occasion, he showed them the court papers proving his story and they ended up blaming her...she was so pissed.


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> Good luck.
> 
> You said she blew her credibility. Did judge take note?


Thanks for reminding me of this.


----------



## tom67

Not that she would listen but you could remind her that both shysters will make more money than her if she keeps this up.


----------



## LBHmidwest

He went after more so on kids issues, all her previous emergency motions, putting the kids in 3x the activities they were in previous years, trying to control their time with me, chastising her that all the witnesses said we were great family and parents and in his opinion that is no accident - we have great kids because we are BOTH good parents, not just her. Told her he didn't want to hear about in the future if the kids and I do something like camp some weekend and miss a volleyball practice she didn't ask me about.


----------



## Chuck71

all a form of control and manipulation.

it is a huge ego boost for her if she thinks you are doing just as she wants


----------



## LBHmidwest

Everything is the one year anniversary of something right now.

One year later, I still don't have any sense of a even an ok future. That's the worst for me.


----------



## tom67

Watch this movie
http://zumvo.com/payback-1999/;)


----------



## LBHmidwest

Didn't work but was it the mel gibson payback?


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Didn't work but was it the mel gibson payback?


Yes sorry I'm sure you can find a good link.
It is a great movie.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Everything is the one year anniversary of something right now.
> 
> One year later, I still don't have any sense of a even an ok future. That's the worst for me.


the one years are hard.... first Thanksgiving w/o.... first Christmas...

New Year's Eve... My last one was August of '13... would have been 16 years since met

it did not bother me anywhere near I thought it would. There are weeks 

that go by without a single thought of her. With kids though, constant reminder.

I joined TAM two years ago today. I've grown more from hearing other

people's stories than my own. To me... my D proceedings were literal 

he!! but.... I have read much... much worse on here. Yours will be a step by 

step process. She wants everything... if she had her way, you would just 

forward your paycheck to her and she would have 100% custody.

Luckily things have changed..... hang in there. You have my #....

call anytime.


----------



## LBHmidwest

she is WORSE since the trial, I swear their is no end her crazy


----------



## farsidejunky

In what way?


----------



## tom67

Have lawyer get a hearing to try and get a psych evaluation.
It's not like you can get her anymore mad at you?
Hey nothing to lose and everything to gain bro.


----------



## LBHmidwest

kids
daycare
emails
girls items

you name it, she's a nightmare

poor ex is home alone again tonight. has been home the last few months on weekends when I have the girls. boo hoo for her


----------



## LBHmidwest

girls say she cries constantly now

bummer


----------



## Chuck71

probably has to....all that anger inside her....she is a supernova ready to collapse


----------



## Fenix

LBHmidwest said:


> girls say she cries constantly now
> 
> bummer



Not your problem. I don't think anger is driving the crying...more like fear.

oh well....the roosters are coming home to roost. (or whatever that saying is!  )


----------



## Faithful123

LBH I have been following you, as hard as this is you seem to be progressing well under the difficult circumstances you are facing. Just an observation, be careful not to fall into a victim mentality or get too angry. Easier said than done. I was on the edge of both, writing things down in a journal helped, it clears your mind and lets you refocus on the next step. As for her crying, well her suffering is her issue now not yours. Stay strong mate and remember you and your kids deserve much better than this. Eat well get plenty of sleep and interact and make new connections with people, it will help...Good luck, although I dont think you need luck.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I do fall into it now and then and the financial realities are miserable.

4 days from when I got the email last year. Every date sticks in my mind, hopefully they won't forever.

Appreciate everyone's help.

She's a miserable wretch, I just want out of her clutches.


----------



## Faithful123

Use this forum to vent, it's safe place to express your frustrations. Bottling things up makes them worse. Talk to family or a trusted friend, cry occasionally, it's cathartic. It's hard not to be disappointed and angry, but it's important to control it, you are the one that is balanced. Your feelings are perfectly normal and to be expected. Financial issues are always a worry, I have them atm, selling property soon moving with 3 kids and so on. You are doing this and soon enough it will be sorted out, then you can breath again and go on living your life without the suffering she is causing you. Stay focussed and strong, do anything day to day you can productitively to move forward no matter how small it is. Post away we are in your corner.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks, I appreciate it.
> 
> I do fall into it now and then and the financial realities are miserable.
> 
> 4 days from when I got the email last year. Every date sticks in my mind, hopefully they won't forever.
> 
> Appreciate everyone's help.
> 
> She's a miserable wretch, I just want out of her clutches.


Most who follow your thread have been there. Trust me, we ALL want you to 

come out on top. If I had several STDs trust me, I'd be coming to your area

to pass it on. Stay true to your girls. It will be sooner than you realize, they will

understand the dynamics of what occurred. I wish I could say something to bring

you peace but....you know the score. As in my case, I rolled out the Rocky IV

soundtrack but...that has very special meaning. Pull from your strength and 

"fake it till you make it." At my one year DDay, I didn't give a damn if

Window Cork was deal or alive. No kids though...changes all dynamics.


----------



## Chuck71

ReGroup, GutPunch, Zillard were here for me. We ALL are here for you.

Post away every 5 minutes if you like. We have been there


----------



## DayOne

Chuck71 said:


> ReGroup, GutPunch, Zillard were here for me. We ALL are here for you.
> 
> Post away every 5 minutes if you like. We have been there


:iagree: TAM is definitely a support group. Use it as a resource. Use US as a resource.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I really don't have a story that is believable. How many things have occurred. Her issues, loss of material things, rotten things to kids, friend committed suicide, work pressure.

I don't know how I'm here. I keep getting up. Not always productive but I keep going.

The worst parts are the loss of future, seeing her spending all this money and living so well, hurt of my children who just want their parents back, small town things where I know she cheated but she hasn't been dumb enough to get caught.

There have been good things too.

Shrink says detach, don't talk to her, go to once a week email checks. it's so hard with kids.

Add in $, trying to figure out dating at all after 26 years, worn out friends, trial and the things she did as that led up.

It's just been a very long year. I'm in the middle of the speech to the email from last year and it seems like a decade of pain.

I figured out why at least some people do awful things to themselves. It's not getting back, sense of loss, can't stand the pain. It's that every day is dying again.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> I really don't have a story that is believable. How many things have occurred. Her issues, loss of material things, rotten things to kids, friend committed suicide, work pressure.
> 
> I don't know how I'm here. I keep getting up. Not always productive but I keep going.
> 
> The worst parts are the loss of future, seeing her spending all this money and living so well, hurt of my children who just want their parents back, small town things where I know she cheated but she hasn't been dumb enough to get caught.
> 
> There have been good things too.
> 
> Shrink says detach, don't talk to her, go to once a week email checks. it's so hard with kids.
> 
> Add in $, trying to figure out dating at all after 26 years, worn out friends, trial and the things she did as that led up.
> 
> It's just been a very long year. I'm in the middle of the speech to the email from last year and it seems like a decade of pain.
> 
> I figured out why at least some people do awful things to themselves. It's not getting back, sense of loss, can't stand the pain. It's that every day is dying again.



Survivor - I'm Not That Man Anymore (live) - YouTube


----------



## weightlifter

Ugh. Sorry dude.

When is alimony and CS set?


----------



## LBHmidwest

few months - up to judge, takes awhile

got a letter from attorney saying her guy botched some custody stuff at trial and closing letter, hope he's right.

I'm not going to read any of it.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> few months - up to judge, takes awhile
> 
> got a letter from attorney saying her guy botched some custody stuff at trial and closing letter, hope he's right.
> 
> I'm not going to read any of it.


Don't blame you.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I hope all is well with you...I too have been struggling lately


----------



## LBHmidwest

Got another three page letter today. She's cooperative, great parent, and I'm hiding money and a horribly uncooperative parent.

Hmmm and she took the coparenting class when?

She hid 40k in income?

She on and on and on.

It just gets old.

I have kids for thanksgiving. She has barely any family. Most of her family will not be there. Sad and satisfying to watch the whole family burn down.


----------



## Faithful123

LBH I feel for you. Nice you have kids for thanksgiving though. Wish I could say more, but I am thinking of you.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Got another three page letter today. She's cooperative, great parent, and I'm hiding money and a horribly uncooperative parent.
> 
> Hmmm and she took the coparenting class when?
> 
> She hid 40k in income?
> 
> She on and on and on.
> 
> It just gets old.
> 
> I have kids for thanksgiving. She has barely any family. Most of her family will not be there. Sad and satisfying to watch the whole family burn down.


Did she send you the letter direct or did it come thru her lawyer? If she sent it direct get a no contact order done thru your lawyer. No one cares her opinion and her letter has no bearing on the judges decision since you have had the hearings if im not mistaken.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Got another three page letter today. She's cooperative, great parent, and I'm hiding money and a horribly uncooperative parent.
> 
> Hmmm and she took the coparenting class when?
> 
> She hid 40k in income?
> 
> She on and on and on.
> 
> It just gets old.
> 
> I have kids for thanksgiving. She has barely any family. Most of her family will not be there. Sad and satisfying to watch the whole family burn down.


same lies, same spin....we've seen this before

she thinks if she tells those lies enough, they become true

When people show you who they are, believe them.


----------



## Fenix

Chuck71 said:


> When people show you who they are, believe them.


:iagree:

LBH, I am sorry that you are struggling right now. The holidays can really ratchet up the stress and pain, can't they?

This is my first Thanksgiving without the kids. I am doing the Friendsgiving route and have some decadent things planned. Will it make up for it? Maybe. I do know that new traditions need to be started. They can help take up the empty spaces.

*hugs*

2015 will look bright for you. Just hold on...things will turn.


----------



## Chuck71

Fenix said:


> :iagree:
> 
> LBH, I am sorry that you are struggling right now. The holidays can really ratchet up the stress and pain, can't they?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Holidays are bad. 2012 was my heIIodays. But I spent the day Thanksgiving
> 
> after on my first non-WC date. Very very very very weird.
> 
> But spent Christmas Eve with my mom, first time I had done that with just
> 
> her in..... I guess 15 years. She even watched It's a Wonderful Life with me.
> 
> Just like she watched cartoons with me when I was knee high to a junebug.
> 
> The holidays are tough but they also help you focus. 2012 hurt like the 9th
> 
> ring of he!! but....what I learned from it....invaluable.


----------



## SamuraiJack

LBH
Good story. I like where the ending is going. Be strong. 
My ex had some crazy in her too.
I know its all overwhelming, but each time you get down, reach down and grab some more. There is an incredible reserve in you that you can tap.

Her time will come.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks everyone.

Good holiday, spent it with family a long ways a way. Lots of driving. Went well.

Mom dumped her sorrows on them on the way home today. She was upset not to be with them, misses them terribly, if they'd been with her they'd have seen their two cousins (she didn't say not her two sisters, four other cousin, two aunts, an uncle and great uncle. Funny her mom didn't attend her thanksgiving, only her and a sister.

Kids really talked on way home. Favorite... 9 year old tells me mom told her she could see me on her birthday but she'd cancel her birthday party with friends. 9 year old says then cancel it. Mom wouldn't. 

Sucks when your kids are crying wanting their family back and their evil mom uses them as pawns.

Their aunt on my side absolutely went nuts with early christmas, the girls were loaded down with clothes yesterday, they were so so excited. I don't think I'm ever getting them out of their ugg boots and miss me jeans. Beats the heck out of dad's jc penney!

Happy Thanksgiving.

Last year at this time I was in my cabin, alone, scared, and contemplating really dark stuff when a friend called.

What a fd up year.


----------



## Chuck71

money can rent love but never buy it. your MiL has to buy compliments.

So will your exW in the end.


----------



## LBHmidwest

for whatever reason my phone and facebook blew up today

ex is really going nuts ranting and raving around town

new one is I yelled at her to lose weight after our second girls. My ex is 10x more attractive than me, I rarely yelled and certainly not for that. She was thin then. She wanted a mommy makeover but this is nuts.

Hearing she talks about me constantly, friends/acquaintances are not putting up with her or mom attacking me, she's been told to get help by friends, some went after her for offering me every other weekend saying we live 10 blocks apart we should split time, she is really really really talking a lot I guess. Heard from many sources.

I have no idea on why today is the day for me to get all of this.

weird gets weirder


----------



## honcho

The more she talks the less anyone believes them. Let her rant, it just drives people away from her and they start to see the real her. 

I was accused of forcing my stbx to lose weight, also got accused of making gain weight so no one would want her. Did not let these ramblings by her bug you. It just makes her look foolish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

broke it off with a girl tonight, too many sheet tests, nice person, we have fun but constant need for commitment, wanting to make dates three months into future, etc.


----------



## billy baru

Good job on the breakup man. Sounds like this girl had issues.. Nice to be able to see them in the early stages, huh?


----------



## Chuck71

that girl was not understanding your position in the D

that would have been a common occurrence in the future

wise call


----------



## Faithful123

LBH I follow your thread daily but haven't commented for a while. Been busy recently with my own personal battles. Your resilience is actually inspirational to me and probably others here. I know you struggle I can read that in your posts. 

I don't want to focus on your ex but man, she is desperately broken at this point. You on the other hand stand fast, strong and as a beacon to your kids. They need that from you and you are delivering. Be proud of that and be proud that you are further down this road. 

My IC said that children see a lot more than we realise, we should become the person we want our kids to be. Through this your kids will idolise you if they don't already. 

You're closer to you're destination whatever and wherever that is or will be. I sometimes go back to the start of my post and read some of the things I typed, it shows me how far I have come. I did it with yours tonight. All I can say is wow, you've come a long way. 

Keep fighting the good fight, be kind to yourself, look after your kids, reach out here and anywhere else you need to when you struggle. 

Thanks for helping me with my journey. Stay strong.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks all

Weird to be complimented for hurting someone. After all... my ex dumped me 

Shrink day. He says things will get worse or stay bad until she finds a new toy or new focus and that it's not likely any time soon.

he complimented me on break up.

got deep in my family history, says I have a hero complex. Alcoholic dad, mom that wasn't a good mother. So i worked to make something of myself, create a "perfect" family and now I can't protect my children, everything I did fell apart and hard for me to handle. Right on that I guess.

he keeps saying ex is like my mom, incapable of love - liked being married but not a partner in marriage.

thanks faithful. honestly, I don't feel very far ahead of last year. this anniversary and trial stuff has been rough.

have your kid tell you they want to be with you on their birthday because they weren't last year. then have them say mom said she could IF she cancelled her birthday party. then daughter says I told mom to cancel and mom wouldn't.

That kind of stuff makes my hero complex bleed in my ears


----------



## Chuck71

it is all about her and her thoughts and actions

the kids are a distant second

this is how a warped mind works

she is a tormented soul he!! bent on tormenting others

damaged people.......damage people


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'll give her credit, showing up at a school program in a body stocking dress, huge earrings, and knee high boots was over the top. She looks better by far than she ever has.

And every time I see her, another dead petal falls off my rose... 

Some of you will get that.


----------



## Chuck71

but internally, what was your take?


----------



## happyman64

DId you compliment her?

"Honey you look hot but your meeting is at the corner of 38th and Broadway..."


----------



## LBHmidwest

I die every day

picked up the girls in a new dress tonight

the woman who didn't dress up 15 nights a year before and often in slacks when she did.

we do not speak to each other, I never look at her head on, haven't in a year


----------



## the guy

Why.....she is just a women...granted you folks were married once, but at the end of the day you guys are just two people that had kids together.

What sucks is she is not looking at you head on and thinking how sad you look.

Phuck her and what she wears, so stop letting her define you!

Were the hell is the indifference? She is not your problem anymore.So go find a new problem that is younger and hotter.


----------



## the guy

Besides she does it to piss you off....the poor bastard she is with now most likely is dealing with the same crap you went through.

Phuck her and her show and tell bullcrap!


Am I wrong?


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> I die every day
> 
> picked up the girls in a new dress tonight
> 
> the woman who didn't dress up 15 nights a year before and often in slacks when she did.
> 
> we do not speak to each other, I never look at her head on, haven't in a year


LBH you know she is doing it to push your buttons.
Keep venting.

On a lighter note if you want a good laugh watch the bears play the cowboys.
Hope the bears get blown out they need change BAD.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> I die every day
> 
> picked up the girls in a new dress tonight
> 
> the woman who didn't dress up 15 nights a year before and often in slacks when she did.
> 
> we do not speak to each other, I never look at her head on, haven't in a year


Quit not looking at her. Never looking at her head on feeds her power trip and make you look submissive to her. 

Look the devil square in the eye, she will start turning away.


----------



## Chuck71

she is a shell of her former self

pity the guy who has to deal with her BS

stop looking, your eyes can deceive you 

hang in there brother


----------



## LBHmidwest

narcissists are fed when you look at them through a divorce, it is a loss of power to them if you don't

1. Never look at the Narcissist. The lack of attention will be very upsetting to the Narcissist. It is a kind of narcissistic injury. Do not acknowledge their existence.


----------



## Chuck71

and she is related to Medusa


----------



## LBHmidwest

Living too much in the past in my my head. One year anniversaries really suck.

Gotta see a future of some sort soon.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> narcissists are fed when you look at them through a divorce, it is a loss of power to them if you don't
> 
> 1. Never look at the Narcissist. The lack of attention will be very upsetting to the Narcissist. It is a kind of narcissistic injury. Do not acknowledge their existence.


You notice how she dresses all the time. She knows you are looking at her and you fuel her want for attention now. I know and understand about not acknowledging their existence. She is feeding off her feelings of supieriority over you I think more than her want for attention. 

Its just been my experience but they tend to hate being looked in the eye and tend to be less "flamboyant" once you start doing that. Im not saying im right just an opinion.


----------



## Chuck71

she wants a reaction....that feeds her addiction

wear shades and don't look

picture her as your drinking buddy in drag, you'll never look again


----------



## Faithful123

LBH I feel your pain I spent a great deal of time living in the past and it feeds your anxiety. For me it helped to use a bit of anger to bring my rational mind back to reality and focus on the present. 

As for narcissist I had one of those and the complete lack of attention worked well for me. Complete indifference even if faked in her presence works. She sounds like she also lacks any insight at all into her own behaviour so it's possible whatever your do it won't change anything. 

My stbxw lost a lot of weight, joined a gym etc etc, no doubt there's an OM. She started trying to bait me in her interactions looking me up and down giving me compliments about my physique, hoping I guess I would reciprocate, so I never did. I didn't even thank her for the compliment, I let it wash over like it was a nothing. She was steaming on the inside. I did get some sick pleasure out of it.

Anyway, stay strong my friend, each step is one step closer to your destination no matter how slow it seems.


----------



## LBHmidwest

We never ever speak.

Three phone calls, none since May

Two mediation sessions, didn't look or talk to her

depositions, never looked or spoke to her

emails, a few texts, that's it

I try to stay away, 180 all I can

Small towns really suck  TMI


----------



## Chuck71

stay the he!! away from her drama triangle or as I called it when I started TAM

her washing machine spin cycle

learn this acronym...... IDGAF


----------



## LBHmidwest

I wish I could get it through my head it's her, not me while still owning I could have been better.

Just stuck


----------



## Ynot

LBH, I have not read your entire thread just the beginning and the end. Your situation is a lot like mine. Except I have the benefit of not having to deal with issues of custody. My ex is a narcissist as well and a WAW, after 24 years. I feel for you brother!


----------



## Chuck71

everyone could...have done better. no one is perfect. if you gave your best

you hold your fvcking head high bro. it's just like in my case with my current

break up. it had nothing to do with me and everything to do with UGs internal

psyche. UG has to go burn out and find herself. Meanwhile this dude is 

going to live it up! And I may enjoy it enough to....not want to give it up when 

the time comes. You have my number....you call me any freaking time.


----------



## LBHmidwest

This was the last week we were together last year. lost cabin, new pickup, kids, savings disappeared, on and on.

Hard to watch her spend so much money, have the kids more. It's wrong to whine about unfair but oh brother this is crazy.


----------



## Faithful123

LBH listen to chuck we all made mistakes and in hindsight would have perhaps changed some things. The thing is from reading your thread you have already taken responsibility and owned your share.....she hasn't.

Time to let that go it serves only to torment you, trust me I know and through IC I now understand once we have done all we can do for ourselves then we have to simply let it go. Easier said than done.

We are all products of our environment, childhood etc the difference between you and her is that you have an understanding of that. 

I feel for you it's tough I went through similar with my first marriage breakdown and didn't learn from it, on this occasion I know exactly where I'm at and what I deserve. 

As I always say do little things each day that make your circumstances better and make your happier. They do really add up and help, it's slow but it works. I'm talking simple pleasures, like a nice meal etc.

Make sure you reach out when needed, we all stumble from time to time. Keep going you're another day closer to your destination.

Keep well.


----------



## Chuck71

LBH you are beating yourself up over things that....would mean something

if she wanted to be with you. She does not want to, so they are mute.

Now if you cheated or abused her (literally...not how she can dramatize it)

then you would be in a real bad spot. But you didn't. You have washed away

your sins from the M. Her on the other hand, refuses to think she even had any.

She has a cross to bear and I promise you, when she faces it, it will not be pretty.

But you can walk away with a clear conscience knowing you tried.

Y'know...just like I said in my blog about UG. I am really glad I am in my position

than UG's. The holidays suck....everytime you see a happy family...

that is a trigger for you. Never forget, you wanted the family together

and she wanted it fractured. Ten years from now your girls will fully understand

what happened..... and I can already tell you who they will want to be with....


----------



## LBHmidwest

I feel you Chuck.

I keep playing out the future in my head. I think it's a she wins no matter what end game


----------



## Chuck71

change the GD game....seriously


----------



## Chuck71

watch the entire video brother

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PuUflTcJzA


----------



## LBHmidwest

Note to self

Do not open christmas decorated envelopes with no return address. It might be your exes christmas letter.

Too funny. All the letter has is sports, sports and sports.


----------



## Chuck71

so she sent you a Christmas card?


----------



## LBHmidwest

sent me her christmas letter and new professional studio pics of her and girls

I did our christmas letter until last year, neither of us did one.

It's ok, I was hesitant to do one but why not.


----------



## Chuck71

you should send her one....with you at a strip club... Merry F'ing Christmas


----------



## LBHmidwest

I am going to send her one, girls and I had a way better year.

And I'm going to put the girls pics with her nieces and nephews she doesn't get to see anymore including a new baby she's never held but I have!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Just gets better...

Sister in law I don't talk to, haven't in a year tells me ex ranted to her for over two hours last night about me, her mother and her brother's family. This sister in law HAD stayed neutral, that's over now. The rants were full of lies, crazy talk, and so on. Easily disproved by me and her brother. Lots of made up stories, communications, etc.

Christmas will be with my kids and half of exes family. Ex with half of her family. Almost all the grandchildren where I and kids are 

Merrry Fg Christmas - Clark Griswold

I'm liking having the girls on a holiday for once, this is SWEET!'

Having Exes family continue to leave her for children and I.... sweeter.


----------



## Chuck71

patience Padawan. look how bow now unraveled. She is like any empire

in Europe. If left alone, they crumble from within.

....On a lighter note....I really need to take my own advice in my case.


----------



## LBHmidwest

There is no joy in watching someone you love tear apart their family and yours....

And not know if they are even in control of their own faculties


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> There is no joy in watching someone you love tear apart their family and yours....
> 
> And not know if they are even in control of their own faculties


It doesn't make it any easier knowing.


----------



## Chuck71

Bro....she is a huge train wreck just waiting to happen. ALL of us know it

and you do too. Difference is...you still love her. Not a damn thing wrong with that.

I still love UG and....well that's another story. But we have to let them

burn up inside. No matter what we do, they would anyway. Maybe the once 

supernova....now a white dwarf can resolve their issues enough to accept help.

The first steps are up to them. Making it for them makes everything else mute.

Reality has it's own special way of 2x4'ing people. You may see some things

in the next month that will blow your mind. But if you've been on TAM awhile....

it's not really, that much a surprise. Hang in there. Call anytime.


----------



## Chuck71

How was Christmas with the girls?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I have the girls all week and will next year too 

We had a fantastic Christmas Eve with a special meal and a few presents. Santa did a good job and attended church this morning.

Spent Christmas with 1/2 of exes family. My girls and their cousins had a ball. No one really talked about my divorce or their crazy mother. The kids played, food was fantastic, weather perfect, they swam, they sang Christmas songs and I think we all see it as a major shift in our lives away from my ex, her mother and her sister. 

Ex had Christmas with her sister, mom and 2 kids and no uncle. We had 6 grandkids, other two siblings, and a few other throw ins like me.

No joy in all of this but.... at the end of the night I and BIL commented that the family is sure a lot nicer without my ex, his mom and other sister. Night and day BETTTER!

Daughter wrote a note to santa last night wanting our family together and some other things about Christmas I thought ex should see regarding presents, hopes yet for holiday with mom coming up.

So.. I forwarded it but only mentioned a Santa issue she was worried about at mom's house lol.

I was going to drop off my christmas letter that futured her estranged family but I didn't. I'll just mail it hahaha.

I'm smiling, a rare thing, but GOD I love having my girls back!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Merry Christmas Chuck and all.


----------



## Chuck71

Merry Christmas brother! Your position is a lot better than you realize.

Look towards the light. Trust me.....


----------



## Fenix

Merry Christmas, LBH! 2015 is going to rock for you and your girls.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Been a good holiday with girls. We did a lot with their cousins and they want to stay with me, not go to mom. But I'm sad at that too.

Spent time today sledding and I got out some winter recreational things. I really didn't do anything fun last winter but maybe I will this year.

Gotta get back to me if I can ever financially recover.


----------



## Chuck71

in the year 2044 you will remember this Christmas not for the psycho being

gone but the times you spent with your girls. I can promise you that.

Then you will smile....and tense up as your five grandkids all....jump on your lap.

Patience Padawan.....patience


----------



## LBHmidwest

Had a nice New Years. Went out with a new "friend". She is recently divorced, spouse cheated.

Both of us feel like we've already hurt others just by dating and not being ready for commitment. Both of us have dated others that say they understand, but really don't. It's hard to predict someones heart. 

So... we've spent some low key time together. Not even really dating just talking, hanging, have a drink or two. Last night I went to a party she wanted to go to with her work colleagues. We had a really nice time, it was good just to be in that "atmosphere" again around a lot of other couples, laughing, playing games.

Obviously I was getting the once over but I was impressed with her demeanor and her friends, I know she was nervous and in the midst of it all her ex showed up (colleague to everyone too but wasn't invited). Her friends politely but firmly had him out the door in minutes and she did not break down, even later alone with me. That was a bit surreal... But we don't control our exes. Basically, he had heard she might bring someone and wanted to eyeball me though he lives with the woman (one of many) he cheated with. 

That was brassy. One of the guys, who was best friends with her ex, said he thought it was funny the ex pulled that because on the way out all he said was (referencing me) "that guy is really big" lol.

I'm sure one of us will hurt the other but I hope not, hard to know the future though too but we seem to get each other. I think we both look at this a bridge for now, I hope that's the case.

Happy new year everyone.


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> Had a nice New Years. Went out with a new "friend". She is recently divorced, spouse cheated.
> 
> Both of us feel like we've already hurt others just by dating and not being ready for commitment. Both of us have dated others that say they understand, but really don't. It's hard to predict someones heart.
> 
> So... we've spent some low key time together. Not even really dating just talking, hanging, have a drink or two. Last night I went to a party she wanted to go to with her work colleagues. We had a really nice time, it was good just to be in that "atmosphere" again around a lot of other couples, laughing, playing games.
> 
> Obviously I was getting the once over but I was impressed with her demeanor and her friends, I know she was nervous and in the midst of it all her ex showed up (colleague to everyone too but wasn't invited). Her friends politely but firmly had him out the door in minutes and she did not break down, even later alone with me. That was a bit surreal... But we don't control our exes. Basically, he had heard she might bring someone and wanted to eyeball me though he lives with the woman (one of many) he cheated with.
> 
> That was brassy. One of the guys, who was best friends with her ex, said he thought it was funny the ex pulled that because on the way out all he said was (referencing me) "that guy is really big" lol.
> 
> I'm sure one of us will hurt the other but I hope not, hard to know the future though too but we seem to get each other. I think we both look at this a bridge for now, I hope that's the case.
> 
> Happy new year everyone.


Next get together if her ex shows up pretend to kiss.


----------



## Chuck71

Nice to hear your date went well! My NYE date fizzled out like a bad fart. But that's

life. Enjoy yourself...new year...new life. And only YOU dictate how it goes.

Keep us updated.


----------



## just got it 55

weightlifter said:


> Next get together if her ex shows up pretend to kiss.


WL why pretend

Haven't checked in for a long time LBH

Be well young man

No steps backwards 

55


----------



## LBHmidwest

Can't say I had this 

Why You Should Date The Kind Of Woman Who Makes You A Better Man - NewsLinQ

To the good men in the world, you deserve a woman who has it all. She could be a writer, a runner or an investment banker for all I care. Just date a woman who has all the qualities you want in a partner.

This isn’t a dating checklist by any means. It’s just a catalyst to get you thinking about the type of woman with whom you want to be. The right woman for you is out there, so don’t settle. Be patient.

The woman you date should surprise you, fascinate you and make you smile. This woman should make you better.

Date a woman who travels. Date a woman who will climb mountains, surfs waves and who likes to explore. Date a woman who is interested in other cities, cultures and the world.

A woman who travels will have an open mind and isn’t afraid to experience new things. This sense of adventure will translate into your relationship.

Date a woman who is comfortable with who she is. This woman will be confident in herself and won’t need you to tell her every day that she’s beautiful because she already knows she is.

Date a woman who isn’t afraid to show you who she is. This woman will be easy to wake up next to and make you feel comfortable.

Date a woman who is smart. She doesn’t need to have a degree in neuroscience, but date a woman who can carry an intellectual conversation about something for which she is passionate. This woman will challenge you and make you think. You will always be fascinated by what she has to say.

Date a woman who has her own hobbies. They don’t need to be your hobbies, as it is good if you have different interests. Date a woman who has many things in her life that define her.

Date a woman who is interesting. Date a woman who has a bit of an edge and isn’t afraid to show it. Maybe she’s a little quirky or weird, but let’s be honest, you are, too. Her differences are what set her apart from everyone else.

Date a woman who has goals. She doesn’t need to have it all figured out. Actually, it’s better if she doesn’t. But, date a woman who has a clear idea of whom she wants to be in the future. She might not be there yet, but she is on the right path.

Date a woman who lives her life to the fullest. This woman won’t need to be taken out on extravagant dates; she will have fun doing just about anything with you. Date a woman who appreciates the little things in your relationship. She will treasure the time she gets to spend with you.

Date a woman who makes you laugh out loud. Maybe it’s her corny jokes or that she’s not afraid to call you out on your corny jokes, but you can always count on her to lighten the mood.

Date a woman who also understands and appreciates your sense of humor. Her laugh will be the best medicine.

Date a woman who is curious and who loves to learn. She will ask many questions, but her curiosity will allow her to get to know you in a way that nobody else ever has. She will become your best friend.

Most importantly, date a woman who makes you better.

Amongst her being on a path to fulfill her own hopes and dreams, she will be your biggest supporter. This woman will surprise you every single day with her kindness and generosity. And, if you ever need anything, she will be there for, you without hesitation.

She will let you in and help you discover the amazing person you are. She will inspire you to not only be a better partner, but also a better human being.

When you find a woman who makes you better, keep her close and treat her well. She deserves it and so do you.


----------



## LBHmidwest

No decision yet...

Ex has now helped break up another family. New BFF with the wife who left her husband, very young children.

Road map...


----------



## Chuck71

sociopathic and delusional people tend to attract each other...

How is your dating scene going?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Hi C,

This will sound unlikely but I have tried not to date since going out last May/June. i dated a lady for awhile, very nice, just wanted movement towards commitment so I ended it. I feel bad, she still communicates. She tells me she is going on dates... ya, that's what I encouraged her to do.

Done a few things socially with a teacher. She just divorced and has kids too. Seems to have been through similar things, and her dates have wanted to move faster too.

So... I am not dating but seeing someone. We kinda laugh, we don't know what to call it. If it works, we do something when neither has kids. Kids come first.

I got pushed to take the previous out in the town where I live, I just couldn't do it. I'm not ready.

I did have a smoking hot much younger lady going through a divorce tell me I should take her out to talk over a beer sometime. Like five minutes later I thought... she just totally told me to ask her out. Let's just say I'm not good at this yet. I missed four decades of dating lol.


----------



## weightlifter

LBHmidwest said:


> No decision yet...
> 
> Ex has now helped break up another family. New BFF with the wife who left her husband, very young children.
> 
> Road map...


'Splain this better. I'm dumb.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Ex has a neighbor, the wife has been her new BFF the past few months.

Now the neighbor has kicked out her husband, has the same attorney as ex. My kids say mom has been telling her to divorce, over at their house all the time.

Never heard a word about them as a troubled family before this. Three young children.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Ex has a neighbor, the wife has been her new BFF the past few months.
> 
> Now the neighbor has kicked out her husband, has the same attorney as ex. My kids say mom has been telling her to divorce, over at their house all the time.
> 
> Never heard a word about them as a troubled family before this. Three young children.


schit begot schit


----------



## LBHmidwest

Final order is in.

Their is no winner but I think she won the bulk of things. I've filed an appeal.

My attorney was sick I didn't get 50/50, I didn't think I would, judge isn't noted for 50/50.

Never expected legal, didn't get.

Finances. Totally baffled. The judge didn't read both sets of exhibits or didn't pay attention. Some really bizarre misses on simple match. Attorney is beyond apoplectic - he did clarify all in trail so I don't know how judge missed some things so badly. 

Some good, I almost got 50/50. If this is the worst she can do to me so be it.

I can't talk or look at her, I know that's hard on kids. She's ramped up criticism of me in front of kids, hard to take.

Her weight loss and manic behavior continues. A substance abuse counselor that just met her I work with said she exhibits meth use behavior but it just be she keeps up her mega dollar diet pills.

In fifteen months she's lost relationships with her brother, sister, me, and now only sometimes sits with her mom. Often they are apart at games and so on.

I'm trying to refinance, get my house in order, and move forward.

Dating is weird. I see someone that has recently divorced, no pressure and just nice times. She wants no part of meeting my friends or hanging out in my town, which is perfect for me.

Not sure what else I can do. Hopefully Judge is honest and at least reconsiders a few things that are clear whiffs.


----------



## Chuck71

is the judge banging your STBX? Ask attorney to have him recused from the case.

Appeal was definitely in order. Now for the good news....if she is loading up

on the diet pills.....she will crash. If she is overdoing them, which I think she is, 

the crash will be similar to a psychosis. I've seen it enough to have a 

familiarity with it. The substance abuse counselor.... she is your friend.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Actually counselor is not a friend, she met ex through her friend socially and then put two and two together we are exes. 

I doubt the judge is, her attorney clearly is. I think the lesson for me is I didn't hire a local attorney and he prepared a case for metro judges. For example, this judge never references tax returns.

I don't want to appeal, just have him straighten out the exhibits he used for calculations of retirement and child support. We are 10k apart in salary, not 50k annually. It's ON our taxes from 2010-13, it's not rocket science.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Actually counselor is not a friend, she met ex through her friend socially and then put two and two together we are exes.
> 
> I doubt the judge is, her attorney clearly is. I think the lesson for me is I didn't hire a local attorney and he prepared a case for metro judges. For example, this judge never references tax returns.
> 
> I don't want to appeal, just have him straighten out the exhibits he used for calculations of retirement and child support. We are 10k apart in salary, not 50k annually. It's ON our taxes from 2010-13, it's not rocket science.


For judges it is rocket science. They aren't accountants and they don't take the time to ever go thru a great deal of documents. I get the feeling more and more they don't do anything other than half listen to a hearing, make some quick rulings and if you don't like it force you to appeal and let someone else take the time to hear about it.

All of course costing more time and money. Even many of the lawyers don't understand tax law or how the perfect divisions they come up with impact people.


----------



## Chuck71

judges.....lawyers...... *puke*

at least a prostitute advertises what they're actually going to do


----------



## honcho

Chuck71 said:


> judges.....lawyers...... *puke*
> 
> at least a prostitute advertises what they're actually going to do


And they are honest upfront in all they want is money and no illusion they care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Are the kids in therapy? I strongly recommend you make sure they go at least 1x a month.

Best wishes


----------



## LBHmidwest

They are in therapy. They say mom takes more of the visit than they do.


----------



## wileywiccan

My heart breaks for you. I understand all too well how you feel and the pain that constantly nags at you.

The only thing people in this situation can do is try to find some peace and happiness while working through the maze of emotions and the legal process.

I wish you well.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Had a few people ask if I'm OK.

Hard to answer...

Final order in, not divorced yet. I'm appealing. The judge made a number of big errors with exhibits in evidence.

The ex is crazier than ever. I do all I can to not have any contact or communication.

I say this a lot. I'm just worn out. Every week I find something she "took" from the house, she continues to pull every trick there is, I'm getting number all the time but it drains me too because I know she still has power over me.

The weirdest was a phone call where she is sweet as a pie, calling me sweetie, babe, etc. Then she gets interrupted and calls back and yells at me for 15 minutes until I finally hung up. That was CRAZEEEEEEEE I asked if she was ok, needed to be put in a hospital or what during the first call.

Funny thing, she wanted to replay all the bad for her in the last year - like I care!

Kids struggle, money sucks, trying to get finances in order.

Doing some positive things, more time for me, seeing a therapist and some other work.

Learning I was pretty co-dependent, let things always be her way. Especially big things - money, when we had kids, vehicles, etc.

I've really just had enough. A nightmare that doesn't end.


----------



## Chuck71

They can only do to you..... what you allow them to...... you have my #


----------



## WasHappyatOneTime

LBHmidwest said:


> Had a few people ask if I'm OK.
> 
> Hard to answer...
> 
> Final order in, not divorced yet. I'm appealing. The judge made a number of big errors with exhibits in evidence.
> 
> The ex is crazier than ever. I do all I can to not have any contact or communication.
> 
> I say this a lot. I'm just worn out. Every week I find something she "took" from the house, she continues to pull every trick there is, I'm getting number all the time but it drains me too because I know she still has power over me.
> 
> The weirdest was a phone call where she is sweet as a pie, calling me sweetie, babe, etc. Then she gets interrupted and calls back and yells at me for 15 minutes until I finally hung up. That was CRAZEEEEEEEE I asked if she was ok, needed to be put in a hospital or what during the first call.
> 
> Funny thing, she wanted to replay all the bad for her in the last year - like I care!
> 
> Kids struggle, money sucks, trying to get finances in order.
> 
> Doing some positive things, more time for me, seeing a therapist and some other work.
> 
> Learning I was pretty co-dependent, let things always be her way. Especially big things - money, when we had kids, vehicles, etc.
> 
> I've really just had enough. A nightmare that doesn't end.


The codependent stuff is where the "real" work starts.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thought I'd check in

I've worked very hard to completely disengage. I really took the 180 serious and it's hard with kids but I've taken things to all new levels and it's been great for me.

For her.. Not so much  I've endured renewed letters from attorneys, legal threats, drawn up motions that haven't been entered, etc. 

The difference, I'm just SMILING and ignoring. I'm finally after 17-18 months getting to the point I get it - big game, she's crazy, it's her problem with her self-esteem and if I don't engage she has to either ramp up or go away eventually - I pray.

Had an appeal this week, if the judge doesn't correct his math a judge above him will. It's not rocket science.

I miss my cabin way more than her. Kids are doing well, want us together but won't happen. Getting my house back together and doing some more fun things.

Money is always an issue because of child support, legal wrangling and so on but I'm at peace. She is getting 45% of my take home pay... that's not right ergo the appeal.

A long time friend, a very smart cool woman with a neat job set me up with her sister. We had a nice time. I was pretty honored, my friend thought I had really moved forward.

I have set backs, dark thoughts, bad moods but they go away faster. 

Even hit a hotel bar now and then traveling. I had never done that while married except with colleagues, I'm just a whole new me lol.


----------



## Chuck71

Great to hear from you brother! Was a bit worried.

Stay on focus with you and the two girls.

Isn't it fun to just smile and laugh at your delusional STBXW?

When you start ignoring her.... she has to own her own chaos

She thinks if she can drag this out, she will bankrupt you

no regard how this affects the children. But hasn't that been her behavior

the last 18 months? Just keep climbing.


----------



## happyman64

Good Update LBH.

I hope you get a positive outcome from the appeal.


----------



## farsidejunky

You sound so much healthier, brother. Awesome.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Small towns are a pain but they are fun too.

I went to the courthouse early because my attorney is from out of town so we spent an hour together before the case. Ex was there. My attorney walks over with her attorney and they part.

Went through everything my attorney says exes attorney told him he's been threatening motions and writing letters to placate my ex. I'd told my attorney NOT to respond the past few weeks. I figured she was trying to get me to engage since I refuse all contact. I told my attorney to Just say thanks for your letters and threatened motions that and we'd welcome discussing them with the judge and say we'd include how to file their threatened motions but we don't want to be condescending and that's it - nothing else.

Got some other good news on a couple of fronts that I liked. As time drew near I asked if I really had to stay. Attorney said no, not really and it would really chap her if I left my own appeal and the judge cares less if I'm there - I won't be asked to talk about anything.

Saw her last night and she could spit nails, her head was ready to turn. Today, friends saying she's on the warpath. Apparently the hearing went well lol.

This is a person who when I filed the appeal asked three additional things to HER and then if I did so I'd sign to drop appeal. I know, that is not logical. Her and attorney have been threatening me so much I didn't know what was real, after yesterday, I know it was all smoke so I feel better.

I wonder if her attorney has broke the news she will not get child support this summer while I have the girls. I'm going to enjoy cutting that check as she continues to tell the girls she's having money issues (no way she is).


----------



## Chuck71

:wtf::wtf::wtf: Child support while you have them?

Yeah your STBXW is half Indian half bulldog

either on the warpath or sitting on her a$$ growling

have a great weekend with your girls


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chuck71 said:


> :wtf::wtf::wtf: Child support while you have them?
> 
> Yeah your STBXW is half Indian half bulldog
> 
> either on the warpath or sitting on her a$$ growling
> 
> have a great weekend with your girls


She will NOT get support!!!


----------



## LBHmidwest

BeenThereB4 said:


> She's psychotic


Took awhile to figure it out. It's been hard to watch the complete change in her but it was always lurking, I just made things work.

And to be honest, probably a lot of marriages are this way. You don't know til someone goes off the deep end. In her case - her mom, the money, the family problems, her issues in childhood, need for weight loss/control/self esteem all hit at once.

I will be glad this happened if girls stay steady a few years from now.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Took awhile to figure it out. It's been hard to watch the complete change in her but it was always lurking, I just made things work.
> 
> And to be honest, probably a lot of marriages are this way. You don't know til someone goes off the deep end. In her case - her mom, the money, the family problems, her issues in childhood, need for weight loss/control/self esteem all hit at once.
> 
> I will be glad this happened if girls stay steady a few years from now.


No you aren't alone
Say Goodbye to Crazy Episode One: Talking with Crazies


----------



## LBHmidwest

I had to spend time with some college friends, sad occasion. Hadn't seen some of them in years. One friend walks up to me, I'm dreading it, he was just as much a friend with my wife 20 years ago.

Hey says, "So... So.... So... sorry. I hear your ex and mom went off deep end together? Is it true you have half her family sticking with you and girls." Yes I say. He can't believe what he's heard from her hometown was true.

Had Easter already with half her family, they still don't get together, the whole family came apart. But... watching my girls with their cousins I know I'm doing right. There is good and evil in life. Evil can only be fought by standing up to it.


----------



## weightlifter

Re: friend setting you up,with her sister. Women setting up the women they love with you speaks VOLUMES.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Girls kept talk about a recent athletic event. I thought I must have missed it and I was gone for a funeral anyway. Nope, no info sent to me. Many of my colleagues had kids at the event and I heard it from them too.

There are about 20 significant things she's not following in the final order. Time to file a contempt of court motion.

Never ends.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> Girls kept talk about a recent athletic event. I thought I must have missed it and I was gone for a funeral anyway. Nope, no info sent to me. Many of my colleagues had kids at the event and I heard it from them too.
> 
> There are about 20 significant things she's not following in the final order. Time to file a contempt of court motion.
> 
> Never ends.


Can't play nice to "crazy"
Do it!


----------



## weightlifter

You, luvmyjava and... Ugh. Who is the other current pscho harpy? Should have a convention.


----------



## Chuck71

don't forget BetrayedDad, lonelyhusband.... but the all-time one was ReGroup's Queen Lizard


----------



## farsidejunky

Chuck71 said:


> don't forget BetrayedDad, lonelyhusband.... but the all-time one was ReGroup's Queen Lizard


Because he was a fat, balding, show-stealer... lol


----------



## Chuck71

farsidejunky said:


> Because he was a fat, balding, show-stealer... lol


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Hadn't heard that in a year! 

Mavish was Conrad's Yoda. Would love to see her post again soon.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm glad I'm at the top of something.

Attorney says I'm now in the top 3% of crazies he's dealt with up from top 5%.

Good to know I'm climbing!

Funny story tonight.... Their mom got kicked out of local convenience store by the manager with the children. I cannot begin to imagine why and the girls weren't sure, something about mom wanting something and they didn't have it.

I can only shake my head at the weird stuff they share.


----------



## Chuck71

A good while back I mentioned STBXW diet pills (per you) and her taking more than recommended.

If you overtake certain "uppers" you can enter a state of psychosis 

I am not a psychiatrist but I work with them, we see things as described semi-often

Many think since it is OTC you cannot OD on it, wrong, wrong, wrong.

You seriously might recommend a psychological evaluation of her.

To just be a schit? No...because your two girls are around her.

Google what can happen by taking too many diet pills on a regular basis. Let me know what you think.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> I'm glad I'm at the top of something.
> 
> Attorney says I'm now in the top 3% of crazies he's dealt with up from top 5%.
> 
> Good to know I'm climbing!
> 
> Funny story tonight.... Their mom got kicked out of local convenience store by the manager with the children. I cannot begin to imagine why and the girls weren't sure, something about mom wanting something and they didn't have it.
> 
> I can only shake my head at the weird stuff they share.


Wow...
She's a Cub fan right?
:lol:Anyway


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> A good while back I mentioned STBXW diet pills (per you) and her taking more than recommended.
> 
> If you overtake certain "uppers" you can enter a state of psychosis
> 
> I am not a psychiatrist but I work with them, we see things as described semi-often
> 
> Many think since it is OTC you cannot OD on it, wrong, wrong, wrong.
> 
> You seriously might recommend a psychological evaluation of her.
> 
> To just be a schit? No...because your two girls are around her.
> 
> Google what can happen by taking too many diet pills on a regular basis. Let me know what you think.


Good point Chuck even just anti depressants she goes on one bad trip she's dancing on the roof naked.
Or worse has done something to the girls and then you hope you get an honest court appointed psychologist.
If you hear more of this sh!t it may be time.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> I'm glad I'm at the top of something.
> 
> Attorney says I'm now in the top 3% of crazies he's dealt with up from top 5%.
> 
> Good to know I'm climbing!
> 
> Funny story tonight.... Their mom got kicked out of local convenience store by the manager with the children. I cannot begin to imagine why and the girls weren't sure, something about mom wanting something and they didn't have it.
> 
> I can only shake my head at the weird stuff they share.


Keep working at it, it took my attorney about a year and a half to finally admit I had the strangest freakshow divorce ever......its good to be on top :lol::lol:


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> Keep working at it, it took my attorney about a year and a half to finally admit I had the strangest freakshow divorce ever......its good to be on top :lol::lol:


Actually this one is whoa...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/260298-dead-end.html


----------



## LBHmidwest

I've tried... seriously, I have. In this state it's about impossible to get an evaluation. I even offered to trade drug tests, she declined 

New thing, she now has legal custody and is not telling me the events the kids are in. For instance, totally skipped an event two weeks ago and this weekend says they are at a meet in a town of 30k but not where, when, etc.

She's a #%$#@%@$#% rip.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Yes, Lipo Extreme Plus

White Girl Meth

What a drug counselor called it


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> I've tried... seriously, I have. In this state it's about impossible to get an evaluation. I even offered to trade drug tests, she declined
> 
> New thing, she now has legal custody and is not telling me the events the kids are in. For instance, totally skipped an event two weeks ago and this weekend says they are at a meet in a town of 30k but not where, when, etc.
> 
> She's a #%$#@%@$#% rip.


:banghead::banghead::banghead::iagree:


----------



## Chuck71

your lawyer needs to be doing what you are paying him for.

this schit should not be going on this late in the D proceedings.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'll explore the legal options Monday. Two likely alternatives. 

Took a big step, went out with a local lady this weekend that mutual friends know and hers known mine. I'd avoided anything close to home. Had a nice night and plan to go out again.

I've done a lot of wrong things. Went out with fun, smart, interesting women, tried not to date, dated again, avoided it, got set up, and this just kinda happened. I've really never had a bad date or bad time. I really liked my friends sister but at the end of the date she said a few things that just was TMI. Great person, a weaker me would pursue for the "fun" aspect and she would like to. Rather, I'l try to be mature.


----------



## just got it 55

farsidejunky said:


> Because he was a fat, balding, show-stealer... lol


with evil sperm

55


----------



## Chuck71

I recommended Regret to read Zs three threads and followed that with Groups's 

When kids are involved, I always recommend those two. It's sad Conrad and Mavish aren't here.


----------



## LongWalk

Yes, Conrad and Mavash were special.

I wish ReGroup would say hi.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Got some good news!

The judge amended the order to give the children an additional month of nights. Now we have a virtual 50/50 arrangement.

Not bad considering the only offer I ever received was a 32 hour weekend and 2 week summer vacation.


----------



## Chuck71

YES


----------



## LBHmidwest

Funny.... get the amended order and now the texts and emails are coming on other subjects. She is persistently crazy, I'll give her that!


----------



## Chuck71

How dare you not let her anger dump on you! :rofl:

She has to be seething right now. Stay at 50k ft, observe

She is like the Russian in Rocky IV.... you just "cut" her


----------



## LBHmidwest

19 months....

Her original offer was 32 hour weekend and 2 weeks of the summer, but those would be controlled by her so if kids had activities they wouldn't come to me.

Now I have just under 50% math time and over 50% or over "real" time with girls.

It's been an expensive fight but I'm glad I did.

Had to be outside for a children's event today. Ex is a skin tight track suit, gaudy colors, etc. Only people running were the kids 

A very attractive mommy in a separation that has has been extra friendly was holding my elbow and chatting me up as she walked by. I was still in a suit from work. That was.... priceless 

Got a really weird text that was on the same subject as something my attorney already handled. We were more than kind with a compromising offer but she had to text me she rejected it. I just replied it was her issue and I'm using the new order immediately  no response which is perfect, we'd went a pleasant month without communication - just the way I like it.


----------



## Chuck71

My 1st love dresses very hot and sexy, guys eat it up

doesn't bother me, I know what is on the inside

memory lane..... sure but nothing more

if you wanted reinforcement on why you would never want to go back to your XW

her actions now..... will show you why

pop popcorn, sit back and watch..... just thank God you aren't a part of it anymore


----------



## weightlifter

Attractive mommy is on way to D i hope.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Not chasing mommy! She just is my new buddy at kids events. There are worse people to be by


----------



## LBHmidwest

Still in legal battles but I have kids for the summer. I made a peace offering with more time for her and she threw a fit. What is that called, oppositional defiance  Ex threw a fit over what weekends were hers, I gave her what she wanted. The new weekends work way better for me. Karma finally happened.

Been seeing a very nice lady, so far we click. Not too hot, not too cold. She told her sons she is dating.

Going to spend the week camping with kids and other friends/family. Kids are thrilled.

Still seeing the strange manic mannerisms and the fancy dresses to things like ball games kids are in. I used to be bothered, now I actually laugh at how crazy she is. That is a big improvement for me.

I'm not good at checking in. Feels like limbo.


----------



## Chuck71

What she is doing is called devolving. Sit back and watch.... it will not be pretty.

You know her for what she is..... that helps a lot. A sexy soulless woman may make for a 

great car date but never a wife or mother. You are at the point where I told ReGroup

"you can tell time without seeing the hands" aka the old LBH is gone.

You can be as civil and nice to her as you can but.... you still get the same anger dump.

You see everything clearly now....... when your thread does conclude and you either 

leave TAM or go to LaD.... do not nuke this thread. Your progress is an example to many newbys.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks Chuck.

I'm sure not there yet. I wish I was.

Everyone is different.

I truly will never ever understand the psychology walk away spouses in good relationships have. Money, sex, narcissism, mid life crisis, it doesn't really matter. The wreckage is always on whoever cares more.

At least I've used the time to improve myself and work on re learning certain things. I don't think most divorces have near this level or resource draining, hostility, crazy behaviors, but it is my divorce. Especially sad with great young children.

The other day a friend from here gave good advice. I missed the ex, I really did on a trip home. The friend said look at the seat as an opportunity, not a loss. I know we hear things over and over and over but sometimes they do stick!


----------



## Chuck71

Any plans this summer with your two girls? 

I thought my D was "the worst" when I first came here. It took five minutes to read one A LOT worse.

If you want to hear one worse.....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/212314-wrists.html


----------



## weightlifter

Drive by hi to lbh


----------



## Chaparral

For others just reading this thread, I think it is so important to acertain if there is and who the cheating partner is. Your ex fits all the actions of what a wife does that enters a torrid affair, at least in her mind, and what she does to her family. I have no doubt there was a big time affair complete with getting dumped, as they usually do, when her affair partner got his fill. You started out being the poor dumb sap she could take to the cleaners and then you evolved to the root cause of all her troubles when she got dumped.

If you had gotten the truth in the beginning you would be much further along in healing instead of still questioning what you could have done better. Cheating has nothing to do with the BS as there are many alternatives that are moral. 

When you allow yourself to face the fact that this is 100% the fault of your wife you will do well. You let her continually bait you with emails yet leave you out of the loop for example. How is it you don't have schedules for all athletic events? What kind of leagues do not have that info at their websites? Why aren't your girls communicating events to you in addition to other resources. I coached a ton of youth league teams. Coaches should be used to divorcing parents its so common, and send out emails to all parties.

Work on indifference. Checking her out to see what she's wearing and how hot she is is just wallowing, not evolving or improving. You are constantly trying to mollify her. It ain't possible. The constant emails are her attempt to keep you on the line and its working marvelously. CUT HER LOOSE. Bring a date to some of the events. Laugh and have a good time. Fake it till you make it.

Just my opinion.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I didn't have any $ resources to track down the cheating. My accounts went to almost zero with two months of bills to pay not to mention legal bills. Yes, I think she cheated.

I could have done better, I think it's important to look at that. Did our family deserve this, no, do I justify what she did... no. Is this extremely complicated including her very wealthy and domineering mother that is beyond description - yes. Most women don't wake up a week later in new house, new vehicle, unlimited legal and household budget.

Do I think weight loss pills and other self esteem / adolescent issues came up - yes.

I can play catch up on schedules, but if I don't know there is a speech contest - no - that's impossible. Or getting a schedule the night of a game. I'm doing my very best and I know a lot of coaches, teachers, but not all. I'm not a mind reader and the kids are pretty afraid of her. They will not talk to her own family members with her present in public. They act like they don't know them. Am I documenting, contacting the coaches, so on - yes.

Emails - suck when you have kids - I reply to perhaps 1 in 20 at this point. I don't mollify for her, I try to do best for kids - it's not easy to weigh out.

I'm pretty trapped financially and otherwise, people do think I'm way better, but it is faking. Perhaps it will take hold.


----------



## Fenix

Hey LBH, haven't been around awhile. Hang in there. Things will get better.


----------



## Chaparral

The best defense is offense.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Hi Fenix


----------



## Chuck71

LBH..... hypothetical, take cheating off the table. Her actions of the last 18 months, the way she

put other people / things above the two girls, walking out of a M without a fight.... would your 

viewpoint remain the same about her?

I never knew if WC cheated or not.... it didn't matter.... her walking out was enough for me.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chuck,

I remain as baffled as ever. There have been so many weird, outrageous things - many more than I ever put here. I go back and forth on knowing she cheated. I believe she did and it broke off. She couldn't go public because her mother (money) is very religious and very worried about what people think so she would have not paid for her if a boyfriend was around. I think the deposition flushed her out on cheating very well. What's it matter? Not at all in this state and she didn't bring him out publicly.

In no way to do I want her back. I kind of go with her as "A" I knew before and "B" who she is now. A wasn't as great as I thought she was, B is still far worse than I can get my head around.

I got hit with things this morning at work about how upset she is I won't talk to her or communicate and that I appealed the divorce. I just smiled and said I'm moving on and the final order whiffed on custody and financials so why wouldn't I appeal?

Great having my kids!


----------



## Chuck71

One thing I am glad you see is Person A was not as grand as you thought.... you only thought that when things

blew up. I have yet to meet a guy from TAM I have spoken to away from public boards who have 

told "everything." Sometimes it is not what they do, it is the retelling and explanation 

of your actions. My D was super easy plus no kids.... I feel for you brother, I really do.

Your D cost you $$$$$ but you got the girls..... in my eyes I envy you. I really do....


----------



## LBHmidwest

There is no "Getting girls" if I lost a day a month it would bother me to be honest. 50/50 is the best I can do unless mom gives them up or has significant issues I can prove.

I have spent so much it's unimaginable - to the point I can't buy or do anything. But I'm proud I've hung in there against 10 digit bankroll.

It really is crazy to think after the "big" awful things she's done she still focuses on stuff like I won't acknowledge her in public.

A friend tonight told me the human condition boils down to this - does a person love outward or inward as a priority. The rest is degree.


----------



## Chuck71

any plans for the 4th holiday?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Comedy of errors. Kids are doing swimming/athletics and some friends having parties. Weather messed up the whole lot but turned out great. Kids spent time with their mom's side of the family and I was told I was NOT invited - this was a smiling thing - they wanted me to have no choice but to let them have kids and force me to go do something. So I did, spent the night in a bigger city, had a great time. Tonight friends, fireworks, and I filled a decent sized pool for them to use the rest of the summer.

Next weekend I have a couple of dates with two different women I really like and have went out with before. I think as much as anything it's nice to get out, have a meal/activity and conversation with someone smart and interesting. I'm in a very low key place dating. The girls family asked to take the kids for me again next weekend. I find it amazing they offer to do this even though it's a date, my ex is their blood - they are amazing people and my kids are fortunate they are in their lives. It's nice to have support from people who know the ins and outs of ex and family.

Summer schedule ends this week, back to school in 6 weeks already. 

I'm getting better with kids. I absolutely refuse to communicate with ex so she's pulling out all the stops at athletic meets - tiny clothing, trying to sit close, very manic, trying to get me to talk or say anything to her. Even when she speaks I don't. Understand none of this is about the kids. In the background she's still sending letters through attorney weekly and spreading lies. I and attorney usually just ignore letters now when hit with crazy stuff I just simply show the facts if possible and move on.

Finances are definitely my biggest worry right now.

Hope you are well Chuck.


----------



## bandit.45

Sounds like you have your head on straight LBH. You have come a long way man. I'm proud of you.


----------



## happyman64

Enjoy the time without the kids.

You have earned it.

And keep smiling back at them. every time. All the time.


----------



## weightlifter

Go lbh!


----------



## LBHmidwest

My head is better, but not straight. I think the constant worry financially and just hearing / seeing so much daily and weekly takes it's toll. My choice though is to give up the kids and that won't stop anything financially from being the way it is currently anyway.


A friend this week told me she broke her vows not me. Her brother reminded me two weeks before the divorce she was telling him and anyone that would listen it was the best year of her life. There is no real explanation and that does still bother me, it's like a puzzle that lays there undone with pieces that should fit but don't no matter how hard I try.

That said. I have gotten to the point where I do not want her back. Glad to be away, have found things in other women I really didn't know existed. The ex was not someone that told me nice things about myself, told me I was a great lover, good dad, good man, showed kindness to others easily other than when I initiated. It's nice to be appreciated by someone after I've planned a date, weekend away, given even a small gift. II realize our personalities worked in some ways but that nagging feeling I had that she never chose our family over her birth mother came home to roost and I realize so many of her criticisms of me where actually just mirroring her own things I should not have tolerated.

My friends have been great though some have seemed to wither away or avoid me, her, both. Other friends I didn't know I had stepped up.

The mind games can still get under my skin. The kids still pass on things that drive me nuts, her desire for control is unquenched yet.

I got a letter from her, funny because it was a written letter, then pdf'd to me outlining how I've limited her ability to communicate with me since she left. She had dates and times and screenshots outlining that I stopped her emailing me at work, stopped her texting me at work, deleted texts that came during work, deleted 6 AM texts, on and on. Then she had that I allowed coaches, teachers and friends to text me at work, email me at work. She finished saying she was upset I will not acknowledge or talk to her in public. All very true.

I just responded - Yes.... I agree with facts of your letter. Your behavior has warranted the creation of boundaries. What part of the letter specifically is about my question about how we cooperate to make scheduling easier with children? NO response. I think it was good. Agree with her crazy, have her own the crazy, and get back to the specific child issue. (She refuses to share a google calendar - only wants to dictate to me their schedule through one).

It has been very fortunate two of her siblings remain firmly behind the children and I.


----------



## Nomorebeans

LBHmidwest said:


> My friends have been great though some have seemed to wither away or avoid me, her, both. Other friends I didn't know I had stepped up.


This is very true in my experience, as well. A situation like ours - being on the receiving end of walk-away, wayward spouses - definitely separates the men from the boys, so to speak. I've had a couple friends wither away, but I've had many others I didn't know I had rush to my side and stand by me. That includes some of my STBXH's own family members and friends he had before knowing me.

Sounds like you're doing better, LBH. Yes, those boundaries are tricky to negotiate - especially when you're dealing with someone who thinks she or he is entitled to everything always going their way. You're doing a great job of maintaining them, in spite of all her squawking. Good for you!


----------



## Chuck71

Anytime she rants as in the letter..... "I'm sorry you feel that way" When WC tried that with me,

I sent above statement or nothing at all. I would wait until she asked in a way I considered 

polite. Sometimes it took her asking for a week. 

If your XW wants to scream and pout, by all means let her.... just do not engage with it

Currently... how are you and XW setting up the children's schedule? How far in advance do you set it?


----------



## LBHmidwest

This is a tough day. Ex has taken the kids. We couldn't agree on the final order after the summer visitation. My attorney and I view it one way, her and hers supposedly another. Her attorney was supposed to have contacted mine days ago and didn't. I went to where I'm supposed to get kids after an activity and as I pulled up I got a text she had the kids per her attorney and they were not in any short term activities immediately.

The kids and I had a lot of plans this week, many with her estranged family. 

I'm very worried about girls and can't really get my head around it, shocked and numb this has occurred. I don't know if I'm wrong, she's wrong, but to literally "take" the girls is crazy to me. I've been kicked so many times I worry there is something about the order/schedule I don't understand but my attorney sees it the same way as do a few trusted friends that work with contracts.

Feels like something worse will come shortly, this must be a short game to long game.


----------



## Chuck71

Nip this schit in the bud NOW. She will start doing as ReGroup's did.... taking the kid whenever

she feels like it. The only way she knows she can get to you now is.... through the kids.

You bet your arse she will do it too. Before she has a chance to again, turn you into an 

emotional wreck..... cut this BS off. It's sad it will take a judge's order to make her

stick to a co-parenting plan. I recommend a co-parenting schedule be posted on a site

(many D spouses use this, offhand I can't recall the site name but I am certain other posters know it)

and............ a month in advance. Again.... curtail her plans.... if she gets away with this

once, bet the farm she will do it again.


----------



## Chaparral

LBHmidwest said:


> My head is better, but not straight. I think the constant worry financially and just hearing / seeing so much daily and weekly takes it's toll. My choice though is to give up the kids and that won't stop anything financially from being the way it is currently anyway.
> 
> 
> A friend this week told me she broke her vows not me. Her brother reminded me two weeks before the divorce she was telling him and anyone that would listen it was the best year of her life. There is no real explanation and that does still bother me, it's like a puzzle that lays there undone with pieces that should fit but don't no matter how hard I try.
> 
> That said. I have gotten to the point where I do not want her back. Glad to be away, have found things in other women I really didn't know existed. The ex was not someone that told me nice things about myself, told me I was a great lover, good dad, good man, showed kindness to others easily other than when I initiated. It's nice to be appreciated by someone after I've planned a date, weekend away, given even a small gift. II realize our personalities worked in some ways but that nagging feeling I had that she never chose our family over her birth mother came home to roost and I realize so many of her criticisms of me where actually just mirroring her own things I should not have tolerated.
> 
> My friends have been great though some have seemed to wither away or avoid me, her, both. Other friends I didn't know I had stepped up.
> 
> The mind games can still get under my skin. The kids still pass on things that drive me nuts, her desire for control is unquenched yet.
> 
> I got a letter from her, funny because it was a written letter, then pdf'd to me outlining how I've limited her ability to communicate with me since she left. She had dates and times and screenshots outlining that I stopped her emailing me at work, stopped her texting me at work, deleted texts that came during work, deleted 6 AM texts, on and on. Then she had that I allowed coaches, teachers and friends to text me at work, email me at work. She finished saying she was upset I will not acknowledge or talk to her in public. All very true.
> 
> I just responded - Yes.... I agree with facts of your letter. Your behavior has warranted the creation of boundaries. What part of the letter specifically is about my question about how we cooperate to make scheduling easier with children? NO response. I think it was good. Agree with her crazy, have her own the crazy, and get back to the specific child issue. (She refuses to share a google calendar - only wants to dictate to me their schedule through one).
> 
> It has been very fortunate two of her siblings remain firmly behind the children and I.


I can't tell for sure since I haven't personally seen her in real life but I have a hunch her concern about you not acknowledging her presence and communications is about her thinking you would always be her plan B.

Her constant irritation at you ignoring her is revealing her bad judgement. This isn't at all how she had things planned.

Her actions seem to indicate that she is trying to up her attractiveness to lure you back in. The clothing and behavior is designed to attract you.

Have you literally told her that she fired you from the caring husband job? Have you asked her if she thought you would be friends and buddies after she tore your marriage to pieces and hurt you and your children? Have you told her you believe she had another man and always will believe that? Have you told her you can't and will never trust her with your feelings again?

The next time she messes up your schedule or makes it clear you aren't invited to their families event, laugh and tell her that's cool and you already had a date. 

Ask her if she knows what "you reap what you sow" means.>0


----------



## LongWalk

When she left you, she wasn't too keen on communication. Funny how it's more interesting now.

You never found out if she was cheating but you felt it, right? In any case it is likely that she has had one or several boyfriends. However, she has not been able to find one that is interested in making a life with her. Anytime a person like her has a new boyfriend, she is likely to bend his ear about her divorce difficulties. Smart guys, even when they are up to the ears infatuated with a new sex partner, listen to the woman complaining about the ex and one day they realise that when her personality issue manifest themselves in the future, they, too become the object of never ending criticism.

You should write a note on paper, telling her that you see no point in communicating with a manipulative liar. But the letter in an envelope, seal it and drop in the waste basket.

If she genuinely wanted to communicate, she'd shock you with honesty and introspection. She is not capable of it.


----------



## Chuck71

Men give attention for sex, women give sex for attention

Seems no guy is meeting her emotional needs

as LW stated.... the risk / reward being around her isn't worth it

now she wants you to LBH

funny thing happened to her on her planned trip to nirvana,

you have grown, set boundaries

in truth... her actions forced you to become the new and improved LBH

she only has herself to blame


----------



## LongWalk

Actually, to add one more thought.

Honesty, introspection and remorse do not manifest themselves the same way. A very proud person who says that they were wrong and want back in the relationship may actually be expressing deep remorse, although they are not explicit. Another person who says all the right things may superficially appear remorseful but because they have weak internal boundaries and low self esteem, their apparently better attitude may not amount to much.

That is why actions generally speak louder than words.

A genuinely remorseful ex who wanted reconciliation would be extremely easy to get along with. They would have coffee and pastries on offer, etc. Moreover improved relations would not be ruined by covert contracts.


----------



## LBHmidwest

It seems to myself, her estranged family friends that the most likely scenario is she was unhappy, probably hid it well outwardly. Buying the cabin, house expansion was an attempt to spend out of it. Best friend moves back, horrible influence and likely hooked her on weight loss pills, partying and during this time met guy/guys meeting her need for approval, esteem.

At the same time her family came apart and her mom likely offered her the love and support she never had along with the money she dreamed of if only she'd leave me, her mom would stand by her. Her mother had exiled a brother that ran their large family business. I've been told at their family meeting announcing the divorce they would get the girls 100% and destroy me.

Instead, 20 months later I have the girls almost 50%, I'm in my house, job promotion, dating smart, attractive women at times and am a far better person and dad.

I don't think she really wants me back, I think she wants to make me want her back and hurt me. I think she thinks this creates a "show" for a couple of other mothers that she now pals with. I think the reality hit home with a long half summer without the girls, I'm spending great time with half her family, she's lost a ton of friends and her social life (I have too as a spin off, not primary).

She's not texting like all is normal, wants me to bring child items to her work. Attorney has still not detailed what's happening and why she has girls during my time. The legal system really sucks and I think it is sexist for dads. If I make a mistake, I'll lose the girls, her... it will just not happen.

But... eventually I will see her implode.


----------



## Chuck71

Watch her implode while chomping popcorn LBH

The courts are biased but not as bad as in past, given time... things will get better for guys

Some women want complete equal rights.... in every way.... even child custody

but quite a few do not want to give up their leverage in a D and child custody, alimony, etc

I've posted on your thread over a year, read what you posted, heard what you said....

It would shock me literally if you even entertained the thoughts of a re-run

You took her and her mom's best shot..... and came out on top with the girls

In this D you are Neo now..... stopping bullets.... you proved your masculine metal

Her child abduction (might as well call it what it is if it was your time), this is a 

"go for the jugular" moment. All it is when you divide it down is....

setting your boundaries and enforcing them.


----------



## Decorum

LongWalk said:


> Actually, to add one more thought.
> 
> Honesty, introspection and remorse do not manifest themselves the same way. A very proud person who says that they were wrong and want back in the relationship may actually be expressing deep remorse, although they are not explicit. Another person who says all the right things may superficially appear remorseful but because they have weak internal boundaries and low self esteem, their apparently better attitude may not amount to much.
> 
> That is why actions generally speak louder than words.
> 
> A genuinely remorseful ex who wanted reconciliation would be extremely easy to get along with. They would have coffee and pastries on offer, etc. Moreover improved relations would not be ruined by covert contracts.


This is a gem to keep in mind. It seemd anixomatic as I read it. Well said.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I appreciate everyone here.

The folks that know at work, friends have all expected me to go crazy, ape, nuts. I was very very numb and down at times yesterday. Felt like I was crushed literally but... i did great at work, no problems, had a bunch of meetings with staff, no one has a clue.

Proud the crazy mom took another run at my exes siblings to go to her and ex and they told her to F off, literally. 

I saw ex tonight, driving into town when I went to a store. Big idiot looking white sunglasses, kids waved at my like crazy.

I am not Neo at all. Just me. I've been pretty beat down and the next 18-24 months will be extraordinarily hard yet as we move through appeal and finances.

A very nice lady expressed her high schoolish age children really like me, met them this week. It was pretty interesting to go out as a man seeing their mom, have supper, look at a house she's thinking about buying together. It was... very ok, Not forced, I didn't feel guilty, they asked about my girls, sports, would i take them fishing, etc. I had a very awesome step dad. Do not think I'm rushing, I AM NOT, at all, this was just a thing that happened by circumstance. Yet, I was pretty proud their mom trusted me to meet them. I'm the first guy they've met in a few years after their dad lost his way and left their life.

I say this constantly, my finances are the bothersome part. I in NO way want her back, yuck, icky, sick, gross. I'll always love what I thought we had. That's just me, I'm a sentimental guy. My sister in law said she's worried at times will the "me" come back, the guy that talked about current events, cool things, trips. She misses that guy at times, the happier go lucky version. She's right, it is coming back. I've started reading daily papers again, having interests, thinking a little into the future, not a lot.

it's not easy but I'm learning to take a longer term view with girls. So she "stole" my girls, my week, whatever. The girls now know she removed them from a swim meet, she is keeping them from their 5 yr old cousins birthday party and sleepover - the kids realllllllllly love each other. They KNOW I do no lie, I don't manipulate. She may win this skirmish in her twisted mind, but.... it's a pin in her balloon. It will pop someday.

She may end up with a lot of money and men that scare me. I can't control that. If she does, in this state, the girls will be able to walk away from her. I think she knows that painfully because the girls ask me about how that works.


----------



## Chuck71

Neo didn't believe he was either did he?


----------



## LBHmidwest

lol Chuck.

I act better than Keanu but he's way hotter. But since ex ran with girls I have a very busy social weekend all three days. Outdoor play and date with an arts major then MBA who's smart and breathtaking. going to a lake for a date with a passionate brilliant redhead who I had the pleasure of meeting her sons. Then catching up with a friend who's back in the area that went through a rough divorce. It's starting to feel more like a date than catching up, got a text tonight she's nervous to meet me after all these years again. It's like Bo Derek nervous meeting some lug. Ya.... right. She's a bombshell but sweet, teaches special ed and on the faculty of a university. 

If I can get through this. I will eventually have one helluva life again! Far better than with a crazy self loathing narcissist that piled her crap onto me to feel better.

I'll get to watch my kids grow up with their cousins, I'll know my nieces and nephews that won't even legally be my nieces and nephews. In fact, I put them in my will, eliminated my ex entirely and place the sibling she hates in charge of my estate for the kids. Felt good.

Pretty cool when your future ex brother in law actually thinks it's great you are going out and getting away from his crazy sister. He actually said he was glad about the divorce, without it our kids would not grow up together and we would not have become the friends we have the past few years. Wow. He didn't say the divorce part to be mean, he was very kind about it.


----------



## tom67

LBHmidwest said:


> lol Chuck.
> 
> I act better than Keanu but he's way hotter. But since ex ran with girls I have a very busy social weekend all three days. Outdoor play and date with an arts major then MBA who's smart and breathtaking. going to a lake for a date with a passionate brilliant redhead who I had the pleasure of meeting her sons. Then catching up with a friend who's back in the area that went through a rough divorce. It's starting to feel more like a date than catching up, got a text tonight she's nervous to meet me after all these years again. It's like Bo Derek nervous meeting some lug. Ya.... right. She's a bombshell but sweet, teaches special ed and on the faculty of a university.
> 
> If I can get through this. I will eventually have one helluva life again! Far better than with a crazy self loathing narcissist that piled her crap onto me to feel better.
> 
> I'll get to watch my kids grow up with their cousins, I'll know my nieces and nephews that won't even legally be my nieces and nephews. In fact, I put them in my will, eliminated my ex entirely and place the sibling she hates in charge of my estate for the kids. Felt good.
> 
> Pretty cool when your future ex brother in law actually thinks it's great you are going out and getting away from his crazy sister. He actually said he was glad about the divorce, without it our kids would not grow up together and we would not have become the friends we have the past few years. Wow. He didn't say the divorce part to be mean, he was very kind about it.


LBH I have a casual gf who knows I am not going to remarry under the current system, on over a year.
My advice do not EVER sign a contract of which you do not know the terms of the agreement.

You are one strong dude.
Her family sees it (well the ones with half a brain)
Look up MGTOW and AWALT.
Peace.


----------



## tom67

Oh and Japan is going through this along with Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0TDXkmCub0


----------



## Chuck71

Going to the lake for a date.... OMG... lol..... you'd have to read my thread in LaD to understand it

but.... it's a good thing. I reconnected with an old flame at the lake this year, actually two old flames

Nothing became of either, well I take that back.... just nothing to promote a future with

Maybe this Fall.... re-read your entire thread.... you aren't aware how far you came

but 'we all' do.... oh BTW.... Conrad sends his well wishes. I kept him up to date on your progress

If Conrad were here.... he would say you are on your path to becoming a Jedi... I would 2nd that


----------



## weightlifter

Lol. He is poster Disenchanted except he's not porking 20 year olds.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Jedi I am not.

I do have more future dates and found out ex dumped the kids after stealing them, ahhh I saw it coming! I really did. Daughter sent an email saying she wants to come to my house soon! NOT supposed to email from mom's house. More power for me


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks Chuck, Conrad, WL, etc.
I'm not there yet. getting there some days.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Friends are commenting ever since the ex "taking" the kids and flaunting the schedule that I have changed much to the better. I think... it was the final straw of accepting this person I thought existed is gone, period.

I get rumblings of her continued build up of lies but they aren't believed and people are noticing more and more her weight loss, manic mannerisms and general blame on me for her life two years after she left.

Couple of friends told me very specific things that she is saying that are quite outlandish. I didn't have to defend myself, before i could say anything, friends said they are so sorry to have to tell me about all this lying and just keep my chin up, keep going, focus on the kids. I think her world is really crumbling. I saw her for a full day and it was more sad than anything. Very pretty woman but just haggard, crazy and weird with the kids. Badgered people after an athletic event about where I was, what I was doing, why I didn't stay for whole thing, why they were taking my kids home. The people were half scared at how she acted, just HAD to know. (All I did was go home early to get an early start on a neighbor BBQ as I was in charge and event ran late).

I'm pleasantly surprised to be confused about dating and have met some unique, smart, interesting women and I'm not rushing into anything but feel like I'd like to find a "girlfriend" not just dating. If it's meant to be it will happen.

Kids well, finances suck, appeal moving along. This has been so long almost everyone I know assumes we have to be divorced.

Thank God for friends.

The first person that told me my ex was a "snot" literally week one of the breakup told me today how much better off I am without her and almost everyone knows it - including her.


----------



## ConanHub

You sound like you're doing great! Good ending to a rough story.

Going to go through your whole thread and see if I can get a "read" on your ex. 

Pretty damn messed up woman from the posts I've read so far.

I love seeing a BS come out healthy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

She brought out her claws and you stood still.... silent.... and she imploded

She brought everything upon herself, course she was who created it too

It will be nice to be around a sane, competent female.... you haven't had that in a good while

You fought the battles.... many will read your thread in the future and realize..... it can be won..... slow but steady


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Friends are commenting ever since the ex "taking" the kids and flaunting the schedule that I have changed much to the better. I think... it was the final straw of accepting this person I thought existed is gone, period.
> 
> I get rumblings of her continued build up of lies but they aren't believed and people are noticing more and more her weight loss, manic mannerisms and general blame on me for her life two years after she left.
> 
> Couple of friends told me very specific things that she is saying that are quite outlandish. I didn't have to defend myself, before i could say anything, friends said they are so sorry to have to tell me about all this lying and just keep my chin up, keep going, focus on the kids. I think her world is really crumbling. I saw her for a full day and it was more sad than anything. Very pretty woman but just haggard, crazy and weird with the kids. Badgered people after an athletic event about where I was, what I was doing, why I didn't stay for whole thing, why they were taking my kids home. The people were half scared at how she acted, just HAD to know. (All I did was go home early to get an early start on a neighbor BBQ as I was in charge and event ran late).
> 
> I'm pleasantly surprised to be confused about dating and have met some unique, smart, interesting women and I'm not rushing into anything but feel like I'd like to find a "girlfriend" not just dating. If it's meant to be it will happen.
> 
> Kids well, finances suck, appeal moving along. This has been so long almost everyone I know assumes we have to be divorced.
> 
> Thank God for friends.
> 
> The first person that told me my ex was a "snot" literally week one of the breakup told me today how much better off I am without her and almost everyone knows it - including her.


It does take some time but people do start to see thru the poor me story and see the weak person behind the crazy stories. 

Nobody I know will even speak to my crazy stbx anymore. They purposely avoid her when they see her now. They all realize how screwed up she is and none want the whirlwind of "drama" that she lives on now.


----------



## LBHmidwest

This will probably go another 16-22 months give or take with the appeal system in this state, in other words a 4 year divorce. She has asked for continuances 4 times and received 3 though she filed.

Kids tonight - Mom is a liar, we caught her lying this week (she has had FOUR funerals to attend since my summer visitation was over including one where she was gone all last night, ya.... right) They called her mom crazy, my 7 year said she is "cuckoo". I about spit up, I was drinking a soda while driving. Grandma has been acting really "weird" and she stinks, her house stinks and no one likes her behind her back. Ok...

More talk about how their mom, aunt and grandma say awful things about their Uncle that has been so kind to us. I didn't say anything, they just he's really nice and why are they so mean and how can grandma not like her own son? Will I ever not like them?

Ex pull some stuff last few days, I ignore, then framed it and responded matter of fact that an action resulted in x and I want her to remain within some texting boundaries, no threat. If not, I'll just block her phone next.

Employee today overheard a conversation with her and someone else. Ex was complaining about summer schedule, having to take kids. The other person asked how she would get two weekends in a row post summer visitation, her son is divorced and his final order didn't work that way. Suffice it so say Ex sputtered, said her attorney "said she was right!". Same attorney that still won't respond to mine.

Mine field ahead in August. She claims right to kids for an event week which is accurate but final order stipulated she had to add days to my summer IF she claimed a local holiday. She is claiming holiday but says I had to inform her I wanted visitation extended. Nope, doesn't read that way. We'll see. 

I'm going to go have some fun this weekend and working on getting the house improved.

Want to be better, getting there. Dang, if I had $$$ I think I'd be really ahead!


----------



## Chuck71

LBH .... this is why I mentioned "pop popcorn and sit back and watch"

quite funny isn't it? Little girls are vastly underrated in the knowledge

of family dynamics. We had Tonka trucks, sports, "rough housing" 

they have Barbie and relationships (on multiple levels)

Realize.... she could have the girls for 30 days next month

and would fight you for the 31st. It has NOTHING to do with

the girls, nothing to do with you.... it is ALL about her.

LET HER OWN IT

Next time you do the child swap.... send this with the girls


----------



## LBHmidwest

Well...

Not sure if I did right or wrong today. After saying what I was going to accept for texting going foward, asking for her cooperation and offering to work with her on acceptable times (I am frustrated with her continued non-essential texting during my work day and before wake up time) for her she got me to respond.

I was woken up for a text that she should have sent days ago and responded, I shouldn't have. I did block her cell and even if it means missing a call from the girls for a few days I will keep in place. Last I knew ex has her cell, burner cell, home phone, access to other phones so if she doesn't call it's her choice. She often allows children calls from home phone anyway.

It's totally a control issue, I get that. Yet, I can't turn off my phone due to work and I have to look at every call/text. The funny part is she couldn't hardly get out of bed until about 6 months before she left me. She often slept in past 9 on weekends and 7 730 on weekdays. Now she'll text at 6 AM. Expensive weight loss pills work!


----------



## weightlifter

Another corner turned. You are thinking a girlfriend might be nice.
Id wait to get more of this crap ironed out before tho.


----------



## Chuck71

If you are a war buff.... check out WW2... notice the erroneous poor judgments Germany made after

DDay. This is where your STBXW is now. She is all over place, irrational, out of control.... desperate to regain it.

Most great empires crumble from within.... just leave her alone and she will destroy herself.

Your girls are taking mental notes on what is happening....


----------



## LBHmidwest

Watching a Churchill bio right now. 

I get your point WL. My counselor encouraged me to try a little more seriously, friends, even my kids. I am trying to do it the right way, slow, steady, right person and reasons. I find it much easier not to talk about the past now on a date, etc. 

It really is amazing what it's like to tear apart 26 years together financially, things, kids, relationships, friends. It's like a bomb goes off and nothing ever quite stops burning.

But... I can step and see the blast now, I'm not always in it.


----------



## LBHmidwest

weightlifter said:


> Another corner turned. You are thinking a girlfriend might be nice.
> Id wait to get more of this crap ironed out before tho.


You are probably right but actually I think it's been/is a good thing. Great to have things to do, someone to spend time with, not moving too fast at all either.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Update

Exes oldest sister sees a lot of juvenile, irresponsible and negative behavior with the ex. She had never opened up to me but really let loose this last week. It is nice because the kids aunt has been generally neutral but positive with kids and I including giving the kids birthday gifts when they are with me instead of mom. At this point about half the future former in laws are squarely in my camp.

Ex continues to flaunt the final order on numerous issues. She makes it up as she goes along. I've done legal contracts for 20 years so.... It's humorous at best.

I've even blocked her phone and she worked around it, since then - she has NOT texted during my requested blackout times except for kids same day issues.

Witnessed total crazy last week. She went berzerk when I dropped off kids at her house. She came out of her house ranting and raving say Hi My Name over and over and that I won't talk to or communicate with her. It was surreal. I never got out of the vehicle, I never do, I just happened to have the windows down. I never broke cool or spoke, just drove away when kids were clear. I've seen people hauled away to psych in ER's, it was this level of nuts. Unfortunately no neighbors outside, I stopped 50' away and looked around for a witness.

Continued fight this week, she wants to have her cake and eat it too on custody schedule - again. But she played into my hands, she didn't proof her response through attorney. Actually asserted there is no such thing in our order as a "summer visitation" for me. Apparently that line in the order that says "Father's Summer Visitation with Children" is a figment of my imagination. She wants a very strange holiday the judge awarded her, however, she has to extend summer visitation to me if it falls on my time with kids. Originally it didn't but but she ran with kids, flip flopped schedule and now it does so she screwed up.  Now she's sweating as it's a big deal to her mother that pays all her bills.

Love life is getting clearer, really starting to like a lady more an more. Going slow but feels good. Had a a few more great days/evenings together. Conversation nice, smart, lovely, seems to want a strong relationship - not a right now. We've went really slow - painfully slow physically - but I told her up front I want it that way. I know some of you are agreeing, some disagreeing but I want, if this works out, to be that way. I have enjoyed getting told nice things about myself, seeing things in her that I appreciate. I was sorta seeing another woman but that has turned to friendship/colleague which is more than OK. For the first time, I feel pretty mature about decisions I'm making with this woman and making good conscious decisions. She's been divorced a long time and I'm the first guy to meet her family and son. I'm pretty honored honestly, and they seem nice and they are protective of her in a good way. Her sister, kind of imposing, told me there must be something special about me for her sister to have me around and I better treat her well! Plus said her sister is decent, ethical, caring and honest. Pretty much what I've seen.

So... Mile marker 22 months

Financially strapped
Ex still as MLC/Diet pill crazy as ever if not the worst she's ever been
I'm moving on better
I'm not getting as down though I still think this will never end and I'll never "win"
Kids saying more things negative about mom and their grandma
Co workers/friends saying I'm way better
Still never taken any meds
Starting to have a possible serious relationship
Sawbladelily still my dear TAM friend off the board
I have bad moments, but not horrible
Truly truly never want Ex again

In short I'd say by this fall I'll be human again and hopefully by this time next year really getting my groove

I've never understood why the Ex, for wanting this divorce, cannot go away. It's just crazy how much control she craves, how much she's baiting, and how she's ramping up more as I detach more, establish more boundaries.

There are worse things than going out with someone and having them tell you that they are afraid because I'm nice, considerate, caring, capable, smart, plan nice dates, good with their family. (I'm a mix of alpha/beta no doubt) In the midwest that can be considered cowboy morality too. A man is a man but manners aren't a sometimes thing and women do deserve a certain respect. Hmmm Maybe it wasn't all me like I thought when I started here!


----------



## Chuck71

She wants to control you, when she can't control herself

How's that working out for her?

You don't understand why she chose D...... neither does she

Your STBX is a puppet to her mother. Oh.... ever wonder what

STBX will be like in twenty years.... yeah.... just like Mommy

Megabucks. 

"Your STBX would pass up being a trash collector at the Gates of Eden

to be an empress at the toll booth to hell."

Good luck with your potential new flame. You dated around

until you felt "that something." Wise move.... Good things come

to those who wait.

BTW-Your girls are soaking in your STBX's dysfunction

don't be shocked if you hear one day, "How did you put up with mom?"


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck. Be a good dad. Be a good man. Just not so good you overlook other peoples bad behavior like your wife's.

From now on, when people beat you over the head showing you who they are,,,,,,,,,,believe them.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chaparral said:


> Good luck. Be a good dad. Be a good man. Just not so good you overlook other peoples bad behavior like your wife's.
> 
> From now on, when people beat you over the head showing you who they are,,,,,,,,,,believe them.


Agreed. I never took that in another area of my life, but from the start of dating my ex I really did. My shrink said the moment I stayed with her when she said she wasn't going to have kids was the moment I gave up that part of myself to make her happy and just never stopped appeasing.

I find the autopsy easier and more depressing than what seemed like a great 20 year run at the time. Funny, nothing really made what happen - happen. It could have just as easily been we are still married. Life is funny.

I just hope in a few years I'm happy and with girls all I can be with a rebuilt life.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> My shrink said *the moment I stayed with her when she said she wasn't going to have kids* was the moment I gave up that part of myself to make her happy and just never stopped appeasing.


Your shrink is very wise...... we read all the time here where men lose themselves over the years.

When you lose so much of yourself, your attraction drops.

Funny you mentioned you wanting kids. That was exactly the main reason I broke things

off with UG. She agreed to having, then retracted. Well not exactly retracted, I found her birth control 

pills. TBH I think she wanted me to find them.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I just think a MLC hit the exact moment her family imploded and Mom just told her.... "I'll make it up and take care of you $$$. It was always your husband and brother that caused our problems, without them we'll be great." 

They just didn't expect the rest of us would go on without them ha!

She's a control freak. The weight loss and manner is getting more shocking. Maybe she is teetering. She's under extreme pressure this week, I'm not caving in so far to what she desperately wants and rather than reply to her self serving reply last night I've ignores which I know is the worst for her. I neither accepted, rejected or commented what her joke of an offer back to me.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> I just think a MLC hit the exact moment her family imploded and Mom just told her.... "I'll make it up and take care of you $$$. It was always your husband and brother that caused our problems, without them we'll be great."
> 
> They just didn't expect the rest of us would go on without them ha!
> 
> She's a control freak. The weight loss and manner is getting more shocking. Maybe she is teetering. She's under extreme pressure this week, I'm not caving in so far to what she desperately wants and rather than reply to her self serving reply last night I've ignores which I know is the worst for her. I neither accepted, rejected or commented what her joke of an offer back to me.


If you had replied, what do you think she would do?

Communicate effectively with you or open up her anger river?

What was Mommy Megabucks few years like, leading up to your DDay?


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> If you had replied, what do you think she would do?
> 
> Communicate effectively with you or open up her anger river?
> 
> What was Mommy Megabucks few years like, leading up to your DDay?


Back in the Conrad days:grin2:
Two phrases again...
"I'm sorry you feel this way"
And this was more mine...
"Are you done?">
Reserve that for special moments but LBH you are closer to the "50,000 feet"
You are almost at apathy.
Stay the course my man and you can date as many or whoever I highly suggest doing some research on MGTOW men going their own way.
Look into it that's all.


----------



## honcho

tom67 said:


> Back in the Conrad days:grin2:
> Two phrases again...
> "I'm sorry you feel this way"
> And this was more mine...
> "Are you done?">
> Reserve that for special moments but LBH you are closer to the "50,000 feet"
> You are almost at apathy.
> Stay the course my man and you can date as many or whoever I highly suggest doing some research on MGTOW men going their own way.
> Look into it that's all.


I alway had a variation to Conrad's phrase
"I would say I'm sorry you feel this way but that implies that I care and I dont"


----------



## Chuck71

IDGAF..... short n simple


----------



## LBHmidwest

I've gotten much better at those phrases IF I have to reply. It's fun to watch her in a sick way try to deal with the new uncaring me.

Attorney meeting today, trying to decide how far to push things, including back into court. 

I'm getting better with her, harder when kids involved. MUCH harder.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Meeting went well.

Basically thinks ex is trying to raise her game to get me to crack. He thinks she's recording when we are together to try and get me to react, say the wrong thing.

He stuck to the order, confirmed I was right, pointed out some things I can do better in public with her to my benefit to outwit any games.

I'm going to a concert to my favorite singer Friday night with a great lady.


----------



## Chuck71

Whom is the singer?

observe @ 50k ft / 180 / NC / stand still / remain silent

silence to people like her is like Lysol to bacteria

She knows you won't crack...... this attracts her subconsciously 

don't wish her away yet LBH, you still have some learning to do

IF you want to see a true emotion out of her...... remain still


----------



## LBHmidwest

Gary Allan

I don't want her back, attracted, even a thought in her mind

I HAVE to say hi to her, he believes she's recording trying to be sickly sweet and I won't talk. I'm supposed to say "Hi, what's _______ (critical / important/ pressing) for children, please email/text the issue if you want a response."

I want her well away

The worst is yet to come. When or if I date locally. When and if I get more time with children - 50/50 or majority, When and if her mother or other abandon her. I'm not anywhere close to what she's likely to let loose yet.

But I'm getting colder, more clinical, detached.

kids tonight ran to me and hugged and kissed me. That.... was awesome. We went for groceries and they kept it up all the time, lots of town folks I know saw them being some loving, missing me.

Neighbor kids over all night playing.

The times I miss 

I don't really wonder if she thinks I'll crack or if she subconsciously harbors anything. It's more just get away, stay away on my part.


----------



## Chuck71

Never implied you would take her back, you simply have more to learn from her

for your next LTR.

One can't learn when they felt beaten down...... that was you back in 2014

the 2015 LBH is a different person........ 

You always knew it, now you believe it

I didn't say you were Neo just to hear my arse roar........

You will learn more now than you ever expected

The world...... is now your oyster..... LIVE IT BROTHER


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks Chuck,

Give me back the 50k in savings she ran with, debt free cabin, reasonable monthly to her and my kids.

At this point, I'd be a Hangover Wolfpack happy lol

But... gotta hang in there about 17 more months guessing to get this all wrapped up, alimony over, child support straight and hopefully be well moved on.

Unless Sawbladelily makes me move to Costa Rica and chuck it all. Not a bad idea either.

Would it be in bad form to run with my retirement and tell the kids I'll see them again when they are 19?

NEO... hardly. Although I felt like I wanted to go Howie Long on a couple of punks that hassled me on a date the other night!


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks Chuck,
> 
> Give me back the 50k in savings she ran with, debt free cabin, reasonable monthly to her and my kids.
> 
> At this point, I'd be a Hangover Wolfpack happy lol
> 
> But... gotta hang in there about 17 more months guessing to get this all wrapped up, alimony over, child support straight and hopefully be well moved on.
> 
> Unless Sawbladelily makes me move to Costa Rica and chuck it all. Not a bad idea either.
> 
> Would it be in bad form to run with my retirement and tell the kids I'll see them again when they are 19?
> 
> NEO... hardly. Although I felt like I wanted to go Howie Long on a couple of punks that hassled me on a date the other night!


One of my good friends and coworkers always talked about living on the beach in Costa Rica. He had never married so he had lots of retirement funds haha! 

He had it all planned, he was going to work one more year, buy two more motorcycles so he would have 14 then. He was going to ship 7 to Costa Rica and keep 7 here. I hired him originally because he was always buying bikes from us. Remember single his whole life so he could afford these indulgences.

6 months into his plan he died of a heart attack. My purely joking bad advice is go to Costa Rica, you can always come back home after you have blown the retirement money haha!!!

In real life your crazy ex would probably follow you. When I was looking to move to a different state for work everyone including the judge thought she would follow me.


----------



## Chuck71

honcho said:


> One of my good friends and coworkers always talked about living on the beach in Costa Rica. He had never married so he had lots of retirement funds haha!
> 
> He had it all planned, he was going to work one more year, buy two more motorcycles so he would have 14 then. He was going to ship 7 to Costa Rica and keep 7 here. I hired him originally because he was always buying bikes from us. Remember single his whole life so he could afford these indulgences.
> 
> 6 months into his plan he died of a heart attack. My purely joking bad advice is go to Costa Rica, you can always come back home after you have blown the retirement money haha!!!
> 
> In real life your crazy ex would probably follow you. When I was looking to move to a different state for work everyone including the judge thought she would follow me.


I had childhood dreams of moving to Montserrat, the '95 volcano eruption had other ideas.

Plymouth was destroyed, old style architecture. 

Try moving to Pitcairn Island (Mutiny on the Bounty, Fletcher Christian, etc) and take your BSC XW with you

Miss the ship.... (no airports there), would take her at least a year to return..... 

a year without her would be nice, wouldn't it?


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks Chuck,
> 
> Give me back the 50k in savings she ran with, debt free cabin, reasonable monthly to her and my kids.
> 
> At this point, I'd be a Hangover Wolfpack happy lol
> 
> But... gotta hang in there about 17 more months guessing to get this all wrapped up, alimony over, child support straight and hopefully be well moved on.
> 
> Unless Sawbladelily makes me move to Costa Rica and chuck it all. Not a bad idea either.
> 
> Would it be in bad form to run with my retirement and tell the kids I'll see them again when they are 19?
> 
> NEO... hardly. Although I felt like I wanted to go Howie Long on a couple of punks that hassled me on a date the other night!


Check this PDF out, DeMello's Awareness 

http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf

let's talk about it


----------



## honcho

Chuck71 said:


> I had childhood dreams of moving to Montserrat, the '95 volcano eruption had other ideas.
> 
> Plymouth was destroyed, old style architecture.
> 
> Try moving to Pitcairn Island (Mutiny on the Bounty, Fletcher Christian, etc) and take your BSC XW with you
> 
> Miss the ship.... (no airports there), would take her at least a year to return.....
> 
> a year without her would be nice, wouldn't it?


Well my crazy stbx is terrified of water and she wouldn't get on a boat for a million dollars so maybe I should move there. Thoughts to ponder :smile2:


----------



## Chuck71

honcho said:


> Well my crazy stbx is terrified of water and she wouldn't get on a boat for a million dollars so maybe I should move there. Thoughts to ponder :smile2:


Let me guess, she won't "fly or float"


----------



## honcho

Chuck71 said:


> Let me guess, she won't "fly or float"


Well she is certainly flying on a different plane of existence in her lunacy haha

She only flew once and that didn't bother her but water way different story. No boats, no swimming pools, driving on bridges I would have to be in left lane so she wouldnt see the water.

I grew up water skiing, swimming and doing everything water related so I never understood the "quirk" with her. I used to have my lifeguard certificate and offered to teach her to swim but the best I could do was get her waist deep in a pool once in all the years. Yet as much as she feared it she owned probably 20 swim suits. A great many things with my special one I gave up trying to figure long ago.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chuck, I have not read that, wow! I'll have to find some time.

It's amazing to go from loving life, loving you think your wife to in a few years thinking most of your life was some big fallacy you wish you had a big "do over" on.

But... I am starting to hit the "up" tail of the bell curve to getting better. People here are right about doing things you like, getting out, having fun. 

We should have a big TAM meeting in Vegas


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Chuck, I have not read that, wow! I'll have to find some time.
> 
> It's amazing to go from loving life, loving you think your wife to in a few years thinking most of your life was some big fallacy you wish you had a big "do over" on.
> 
> But... I am starting to hit the "up" tail of the bell curve to getting better. People here are right about doing things you like, getting out, having fun.
> 
> We should have a big TAM meeting in Vegas


You would be surprised the fun you could have with a curling iron, switchblade, frog legs, and

an 8-track player....... *evil grin*

LBH..... you are almost at the point you were when your world crumbled

We here at TAM want you to learn from your previous transgressions and live a more 

happier life. You just climbed out of the schitpool and dried yourself off.

Grab your pad n pencil......


----------



## Chuck71

honcho said:


> Well she is certainly flying on a different plane of existence in her lunacy haha
> 
> She only flew once and that didn't bother her but water way different story. No boats, no swimming pools, driving on bridges I would have to be in left lane so she wouldnt see the water.
> 
> I grew up water skiing, swimming and doing everything water related so I never understood the "quirk" with her. I used to have my lifeguard certificate and offered to teach her to swim but the best I could do was get her waist deep in a pool once in all the years. Yet as much as she feared it she owned probably 20 swim suits. A great many things with my special one I gave up trying to figure long ago.


My XW's matra was "I don't fly or float" even though she wanted to visit Hawaii.... *eyeroll*

Course it is hard to fly or float after tipping the scales at 150-175 lbs. heavier than wedding day.....

LOL yes, have pics to prove it in back chat. I made the mistake of taking her under in pool

when we were dating. Talk about a "stink eye"


----------



## honcho

Chuck71 said:


> My XW's matra was "I don't fly or float" even though she wanted to visit Hawaii.... *eyeroll*
> 
> Course it is hard to fly or float after tipping the scales at 150-175 lbs. heavier than wedding day.....
> 
> LOL yes, have pics to prove it in back chat. I made the mistake of taking her under in pool
> 
> when we were dating. Talk about a "stink eye"


Mine always wanted to go to Australia and she only gain about 125lbs.....

Which of course always leads to the "loaded" question they all ask, do I look fat? We have the let's be open and honest in a relationship or answer the question so you don't get your throat slit while you sleep haha!

My crazy ex has done just the opposite of LBH "special one" mine had lost a great deal of weight before the meltdown but now I've never seen her so big. It was a shock the last time I saw her in court. 

LBH someday your stbx will finally hit bottom, just keep caring for your kids as best you can so your ex doesn't drag them down with her.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Felt good to have a long time friend say I'm detaching more and more and starting to think more strategically with my actions, see her actions before they occur and have no expectations her behaviors will improve.

Her actions and comments are only getting worse as she loses more control and she's making legal mistakes with her exercise of primary custody in my opinion. The girls did some really good things this weekend without me, they showed great strength and fortitude going against her in public - they spoke and went over to their family in public with mom present - her inlaws. The girls have never done that before, something gave them courage.

Been working on re-arranging/improving my house, great concert, doing OK. It feels like a I'm starting to watch the trainwreck rather than blame myself for it while on the ride.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Felt good to have a long time friend say I'm detaching more and more and starting to think more strategically with my actions, see her actions before they occur and have no expectations her behaviors will improve.
> 
> Her actions and comments are only getting worse as she loses more control and she's making legal mistakes with her exercise of primary custody in my opinion. The girls did some really good things this weekend without me, they showed great strength and fortitude going against her in public - they spoke and went over to their family in public with mom present - her inlaws. The girls have never done that before, something gave them courage.
> 
> Been working on re-arranging/improving my house, great concert, doing OK. It feels like a I'm starting to watch the trainwreck rather than blame myself for it while on the ride.


Don't be shocked if she doesn't change her style of crazy as her current way hasn't been effective for a long time now in keeping you attached. This girl just won't let you go.


----------



## Nix

I went through something very similar a couple of years ago, except we were a same-sex unmarried couple with no kids.

I was 44 and my ex was 40 when she blew up my entire life and left me devastated. The weight loss, the sneaking around with no explanation of where she was going, all of it is exactly what happened to me. I am so sorry to hear that she is neglecting your kids, though, and I hope you are successful in protecting them from her.


----------



## Chuck71

LBH...... I think you read ReGroup's thread. Queen Lizard tried every possible way to get him to not

detach from her..... angry, polite, curt, delusional, etc....expect your XW to do the same.

XW will eventually try..... the seductive Mrs. LBH.... ya know, the one you fell in love with.

Stay at 50k ft. and observe..... her actions will allow you to make the decision.

Little girls pick up on what is going on a lot quicker than what we adults think. They are usually tense

when they are with their mom.... wonder why? You know why.


----------



## tom67

This guy was poor when his xw cheated on him.
Well I bet she is regretting that decision now.
Have a look:smile2:
RomanAtwood - Net Worth in 2015

Here is his youtube channel and yes I know this is the exception.
But he is genuine imo.
Here when he did make a wish.:smile2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubkdDACluSQ


----------



## LBHmidwest

A friend, substance abuse counselor, is worried for ex. She saw her this weekend and thought she was emaciated. It's her choice to "skinny up" for self esteem and one last bastion of control.

C, I don't see "seductive her" coming back. I can't imagine it.

I was floored this weekend. I had a private moment with a a high school aged son of a woman I've dated asked me to come around more, spend more time with him, brother, mother. We were looking at his deer stand and checking out his bow, guy stuff. He said he and brother think I'm a great guy, make his mother happy, she's always happy when I'm around or coming/after I leave, treats her and them right. I was pretty floored. He's a junior in high school. That was quite a thing, I was pretty shocked on a lot of levels. Quite the young guy. I think he just likes my boat, ha!


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> A friend, substance abuse counselor, is worried for ex. She saw her this weekend and thought she was emaciated. It's her choice to "skinny up" for self esteem and one last bastion of control.
> 
> C, I don't see "seductive her" coming back. I can't imagine it.
> 
> I was floored this weekend. I had a private moment with a a high school aged son of a woman I've dated asked me to come around more, spend more time with him, brother, mother. We were looking at his deer stand and checking out his bow, guy stuff. He said he and brother think I'm a great guy, make his mother happy, she's always happy when I'm around or coming/after I leave, treats her and them right. I was pretty floored. He's a junior in high school. That was quite a thing, I was pretty shocked on a lot of levels. Quite the young guy. I think he just likes my boat, ha!


Ok, now we are talking important stuff, bows and boats. It's less than a month for the bow opener here in wis. It's great her son wanted to talk "guy stuff" with you, says a get deal about the comfort level with you.


----------



## weightlifter

Many children dearly love their parents and know their parents will never get back together again. He is simply looking out for his mom and wants her to be happy.

Cool info tho.

A ~14 year old sees you as a positive. Keep giving good vibes.


----------



## turnera

LBHmidwest said:


> A friend, substance abuse counselor, is worried for ex. She saw her this weekend and thought she was emaciated. It's her choice to "skinny up" for self esteem and one last bastion of control.


I was just going to ask you if you thought she was getting into drugs. Another poster's wife started getting into cocaine or meth, I forget which, and she sounds - and looks - just like your stbx.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHs STBXW takes diet pills like candy.....

Lipo Blast.... states take three a day / no more than four within 24 hr period

Guess how many she takes.....


----------



## LBHmidwest

It's so cold people left a work picnic tonight early. Ex HATES cold. Drop kids off and she's in short shorts and muscle shirt screwing around in lawn. Ya...

Lipo Slim Extreme. I'm not even sure anymore and I'm not looking it up.

Her life to waste.

Me... sad for her. Sad her mother was and is so overbearing. Sorry she made a deal with the devil for her "happiness".

It's just not a big deal anymore. With time either she'll get worse, the same, better. With time, I'll get better.


----------



## Chuck71

Your female therapist friend called it "Rich Girl Meth" .... I pulled it up.... 

Dietary supplements do not face the same FDA regulations as "medicine"

We can thank Orann Hatch (Utah) for that "push through"

You are in a much better place than she is.... and I'm certain you now realize you have been for awhile

Continue moving forward....


----------



## LBHmidwest

She has two cousins that have asked me about Meth, one was an addict. Straight to my knowledge now. He's brought it up numerous times. I honestly can't imagine that or if she took it was something a friend said try this without telling her what it was.

Again... her choices in life.

Feels great to have really changed my house around, the house my kids have always known. Friends see me getting better. kids were great and well behaved tonight.

One of the ladies I've dated is soul searching a bit about "us" and I - rather than chase - said to take time. Her work schedule is crazy (Traveling 4-5 nights a week for next month - seasonal once a year thing) and she wanted to keep going out but I said no - let's take a break. You sort You out and I'm not stressing I did something. She seems scared of her own emotions, investment and genuinely likes me but seems like she has to decide what she wants. I'm the first guy to meet her family and child after six years of divorce and it seems she is scared suddenly that this is "real" when I asked her to attend a colleague's wedding. I would have chased before but now I've given her space and confident I was a great guy and she'll either choose to continue or she won't. If she wants to continue, at that time, I'll consider if that makes sense. No promises. My self respect is coming back. We are quite a bit different politically but she's amazingly smart and deep, but I think a tough marriage made her guarded and she didn't expect some of the emotions she's dealing with. Me asking to go to the wedding I think got her really thinking - a good thing. It's time to go one direction or another. Her son actually sent me a handwritten note for something he mentioned he liked in passing nd I gifted it to him a week later, not expensive.

And yes.... The the young man was the son of a different woman. Tells me that both women are good mother's. Very good. But I think single mother's, good ones, have to be guarded and slow to let a man in and I would not want it any other way. THAT is something that feels good to me. It's not a red vs. blue pill things - it's a class and consideration thing.

I have dated both casually and NOT been pushing physically with either. Sawbladelily is my wing girls (thank  ) I have found physical without a connection left me cold. Happy short term but cold. The boy who spoke to me has mother who has had a major job change, new house and I gravitated away and sorta thankful for it so I could focus on the other lady. I've not been playing either one in any way. It seemed like it just took it's course. I think the month or so gap is what caused her son to say what he did because this past weekend things worked out to see each other - at her urging.

Life is complicated, but more interesting.

It's amazing to me that after being in a 25 yr relationship when you date it can be great or gone in seconds at a whim on either's part. So far I've been able to be me, a better me, but I'm not trying to ever be someone I'm not. I find it's extremely fun to have great conversations, go out for fun things, have something to look forward to and be a gentleman again - opening doors, admiring a lovely woman, being proud to go out with someone, planning dates, etc. I have come to realize I was a pretty good husband in these regards. 

This sounds conceited and I'm very egoless but I'm learning that I WAS a good man that was very under appreciated and good luck to the ex in finding better. I suspect she'll find her beefcake or a wallet - but that isn't a guy who would have done everything for her happiness and while cliche' - I hope she appreciates my absence as I'm beginning to appreciate hers.

Ok, kinda cathartic to write all that


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chuck71 said:


> Your female therapist friend called it "Rich Girl Meth" .... I pulled it up....
> 
> Dietary supplements do not face the same FDA regulations as "medicine"
> 
> We can thank Orann Hatch (Utah) for that "push through"
> 
> You are in a much better place than she is.... and I'm certain you now realize you have been for awhile
> 
> Continue moving forward....


Her best friend moved back from one of the largest US Cities in April of 2013. Most horrible woman I ever knew. Serial philanderer, nasty thing. She had really gained weight and suddenly skinnied up about the time ex started to shed. Hmmm wonder where she got the pills.

I wonder Exes mom is beginning to see she bought a bill of goods from her daughter that has to be coming due.

Two narcissists, one with money. It won't last forever.


----------



## Chuck71

You're a lot like me, you're a "take it or leave it" type..... we aren't 25 any more

Y'know.... when we put on dog n pony shows...

Have you noticed single females with daughters often wait to start dating again... after the D reaches 18?


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> You're a lot like me, you're a "take it or leave it" type..... we aren't 25 any more
> 
> Y'know.... when we put on dog n pony shows...
> 
> Have you noticed single females with daughters often wait to start dating again... after the D reaches 18?


Again not giving a f^ck so to speak is quite attractive.
I am totally different at 48 from that 30 yr old goof.
Take it or leave it.
Life is too short.


----------



## Chuck71

tom67 said:


> Again not giving a f^ck so to speak is quite attractive.
> I am totally different at 48 from that 30 yr old goof.
> Take it or leave it.
> Life is too short.


Tom..... I did an article on supplements and the Orrin Hatch "push through" back in 2003.

Lots of things have changed since then but this was a base for future articles. I can send you the link

to it if you would like or if LBH is okay with it, post it here. BTW... Hatch received large contributions from

numerous dietary supplement manufacturers in his 2000 re-election bid. Amazing isn't it?


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> Tom..... I did an article on supplements and the Orrin Hatch "push through" back in 2003.
> 
> Lots of things have changed since then but this was a base for future articles. I can send you the link
> 
> to it if you would like or if LBH is okay with it, post it here. BTW... Hatch received large contributions from
> 
> numerous dietary supplement manufacturers in his 2000 re-election bid. Amazing isn't it?


It's the stimulants that will eventually do her in.
Just like when Rumsfeld promoted aspertame which turns into formaldehyde in your body.

The Shocking Story of How Aspartame Became Legal - Daily Health Post


----------



## honcho

Chuck71 said:


> Your female therapist friend called it "Rich Girl Meth" .... I pulled it up....
> 
> Dietary supplements do not face the same FDA regulations as "medicine"
> 
> We can thank Orann Hatch (Utah) for that "push through"
> 
> You are in a much better place than she is.... and I'm certain you now realize you have been for awhile
> 
> Continue moving forward....


My crazy stbx took every weird supplement you could think of. At one point she was taking at least 20 different things in a day. She was convinced they leveled her mood out. Doctors told her what she was taking was either vodoo medicine or simply not going to do anything but of course her Internet medical expertise was superior to a real medical degree.


----------



## Chuck71

Honcho.... if you search enough you can still find articles which tout the benefits of smoking, written in the 1990's.

Words cited though... a Dr. who graduated from U of Burundi.... SMFH

I'm surprised your BSC STBXW didn't accuse you of doctoring those pills to make her submit to some 

mind control experiment. You really need to do a Top 10 list on things she had accused you of...

Do you ever wish.... couple years ago, you didn't just grab your guns, tools, truck, dogs and just GTFO?


----------



## honcho

Chuck71 said:


> Honcho.... if you search enough you can still find articles which tout the benefits of smoking, written in the 1990's.
> 
> Words cited though... a Dr. who graduated from U of Burundi.... SMFH
> 
> I'm surprised your BSC STBXW didn't accuse you of doctoring those pills to make her submit to some
> 
> mind control experiment. You really need to do a Top 10 list on things she had accused you of...
> 
> Do you ever wish.... couple years ago, you didn't just grab your guns, tools, truck, dogs and just GTFO?


Maybe I'll do the top ten when it's done she keeps adding new ones haha. Actually had depositions today and she showed up. Even got a couple new story lines today I was gonna update my post later, I'm still trying to sort out the wierdness.


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> Maybe I'll do the top ten when it's done she keeps adding new ones haha. Actually had depositions today and she showed up. Even got a couple new story lines today I was gonna update my post later, I'm still trying to sort out the wierdness.


I just...:banghead::banghead::banghead:


----------



## Chuck71

Honcho....... be glad you didn't have kids


----------



## honcho

Chuck71 said:


> Honcho....... be glad you didn't have kids


LBH does have the harder long term road because he has to see the "special one" more often because of the kids


----------



## Chuck71

LBH's XW2B needs a nickname...... any thoughts LBH?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm trying to remember why I didn't go straight to Alaska like I wanted to after college. That was my plan.

Love.... sweet love. Seems funny now. And... only 11 more years until my youngest is in college. I'd be in my mid 50's.

Two years my hair wasn't nearly this grey.

Two years ago I had money, vacation home, good future. I try to tell myself it will all be better.

I call her Lady Voldemort  Have for a long time now.


----------



## thenub

I would drop the "lady" from that handle


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> I'm trying to remember why I didn't go straight to Alaska like I wanted to after college. That was my plan.
> 
> Love.... sweet love. Seems funny now. And... only 11 more years until my youngest is in college. I'd be in my mid 50's.
> 
> Two years my hair wasn't nearly this grey.
> 
> Two years ago I had money, vacation home, good future. I try to tell myself it will all be better.
> 
> I call her Lady Voldemort  Have for a long time now.


You know I HAVE to ask...... why Alaska?


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> I'm trying to remember why I didn't go straight to Alaska like I wanted to after college. That was my plan.
> 
> Love.... sweet love. Seems funny now. And... only 11 more years until my youngest is in college. I'd be in my mid 50's.
> 
> Two years my hair wasn't nearly this grey.
> 
> Two years ago I had money, vacation home, good future. I try to tell myself it will all be better.
> 
> I call her Lady Voldemort  Have for a long time now.


In high school I worked on fishing trawlers in lake mich. The plan was to graduate then head to Alaska and me and my best friend were going to work on salmon boats. I can't even blame love for not going, I just got cold feet. My buddy , usually after a few beers, still asks why we didn't go. Haha


----------



## LBHmidwest

Always wanted to live there since I was a little kid. Finally went a number of years ago and talked about moving up there again. I love nothing like a wilderness setting. I especially love western Alaska, the rivers are immense and the fishing is unbelievable. All my buddies have went the past few years, I can't even hardly do anything locally much less a trip. The state I live is in is ranked near the worst in both parenting time given to the father and has one of if not the highest child support rate in the nation. I'd have to say that seems accurate.


----------



## turnera

I joined ROTC (Air Force) in high school - the first female ever, in our school; back then, girls weren't allowed to wear pants at our school; imagine how I stood out in an Air Force uniform, in the hippy days. My plan was to become a pilot in the Air Force. Until they told me I had to have 20/20 vision. Grrr.

God, I wish I would have stayed in it and gone to the Air Force.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> Always wanted to live there since I was a little kid. Finally went a number of years ago and talked about moving up there again. I love nothing like a wilderness setting. I especially love western Alaska, the rivers are immense and the fishing is unbelievable. All my buddies have went the past few years, I can't even hardly do anything locally much less a trip. The state I live is in is ranked near the worst in both parenting time given to the father and has one of if not the highest child support rate in the nation. I'd have to say that seems accurate.


Life Below Zero?

You will love Life Below Zero


----------



## turnera

Go!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Kids here.

They are the most important thing.

Over a 100,000 views. That seems.... like I've wasted a lot of people's time!

Love those shows Chuck. I used to watch them when I had cable


----------



## Chuck71

It's on Hulu ........


----------



## LBHmidwest

I've been really good about making weekend plans the past 4-5 months and didn't this weekend. I think I wanted to test and see what alone time does. Voldemort pulled a lot of stuff with the schedule since July and the wheels of justice grind slowly. Eventually a judge might figure out her games but until then.

Grrr Just see where a college kid that has a mutual friend of mine on FB posted pics of my children and how wonderful they were to babysit this summer while home from college.

Hmmm Ex never has them babysat - ever, maybe with her mom - never once with me in two years. Testified to that in court. What webs we weave.


----------



## Chuck71

She is showing whom she is....... believe her


----------



## LBHmidwest

In shocking news... another attorney letter. Only two this month. Woe is her. Hasn't gotten my retirement yet because no QDRO and she's all in the right with the parenting plan... if only I would do what she says and follow the order like she says. Two weeks ago it was a difficult order to follow.

Apparently she didn't care for the letter my attorney sent reminding her she ran with the kids, she is breaking the order and she is bringing these problems on herself and if she wants my retirement she needs to get the qdro - not my problem.

She's threatening to garnish wages. This should be fun.

Broken record.

She's like a seagull barking "mine" "Mine" "mine" "mine"


----------



## Chuck71

I'm not trying to be funny but could you imagine the craziness if you won the lottery!

Could you lease a car for an evening and pick your girls up in a high end vehicle? 

Talk about completely throwing a wrench in her weekend.......


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chuck71 said:


> I'm not trying to be funny but could you imagine the craziness if you won the lottery!
> 
> Could you lease a car for an evening and pick your girls up in a high end vehicle?
> 
> Talk about completely throwing a wrench in her weekend.......


It wasn't lost on me the wage garnishment letter accusing me of running off with my retirement was the day after I got a new TV the girls saw. I played it up that it was a 3k TV, it was $300.

I thought it would be fun to play with her mind. :grin2:

I'm working out again hard, that will be fun too.


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> It wasn't lost on me the wage garnishment letter accusing me of running off with my retirement was the day after I got a new TV the girls saw. I played it up that it was a 3k TV, it was $300.
> 
> *I thought it would be fun to play with her mind*. :grin2:
> 
> I'm working out again hard, that will be fun too.


Can't like this enough.....

after all..... what did she do to you?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Yep, still alive 

Ex ratcheting up things, why is it so easy to escalate? It's sickening and funny in certain ways. I can now anticipate much better though. She's fallen into a couple of traps that worked nicely for me if we end up in court (not letting kids call, ignoring polite requests to limit communication, not following order, etc.)

Kids doing well though they bring up too much about mom, their life as they try to work through things.

Still impossible to schedule, I don't get court mandated info on kids activities then face bizarre efforts on her part to get me schedules through back doors like friends when kids with me. She refuses to use a shared google calendar. Only wants me to follow her calendar, I refuse.

Money is by far the worse, really scraping by. I literally get a few hundred dollars a check than her and our income wasn't that far apart plus i have 3/4 of the bills and insurance. Just.... sucks. I'm in appeal though for that and 50/50 yet for children.

Dating life is interesting. Been seeing a nice lady since June, distance is a small issue but actually serves as a little insulation to let things build up more slowly. I would say at this point I enjoy dates, companionship, fun. I've made more than my fair share of mistakes, but nothing that hurt anyone or was mean spirited. It definitely seems like dating is a unique experience. 

I probably won't get rid of her legally until next summer. I think most everyone assumes I'm divorced though not true yet. In-laws continue to be great, great for girls. Friends really just fall away over time in a couples group so to speak. People talk more about "inviting me/guest" places but not happening fast.

Ex officially reached the "is she having an eating disorder or drug use" comment stage in community because of really just shocking weight loss. I just say, "not my problem" and try to move along.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Yep, still alive
> 
> Ex ratcheting up things, why is it so easy to escalate? It's sickening and funny in certain ways. I can now anticipate much better though. She's fallen into a couple of traps that worked nicely for me if we end up in court (not letting kids call, ignoring polite requests to limit communication, not following order, etc.)
> 
> Kids doing well though they bring up too much about mom, their life as they try to work through things.
> 
> Still impossible to schedule, I don't get court mandated info on kids activities then face bizarre efforts on her part to get me schedules through back doors like friends when kids with me. She refuses to use a shared google calendar. Only wants me to follow her calendar, I refuse.
> 
> Money is by far the worse, really scraping by. I literally get a few hundred dollars a check than her and our income wasn't that far apart plus i have 3/4 of the bills and insurance. Just.... sucks. I'm in appeal though for that and 50/50 yet for children.
> 
> Dating life is interesting. Been seeing a nice lady since June, distance is a small issue but actually serves as a little insulation to let things build up more slowly. I would say at this point I enjoy dates, companionship, fun. I've made more than my fair share of mistakes, but nothing that hurt anyone or was mean spirited. It definitely seems like dating is a unique experience.
> 
> I probably won't get rid of her legally until next summer. I think most everyone assumes I'm divorced though not true yet. In-laws continue to be great, great for girls. Friends really just fall away over time in a couples group so to speak. People talk more about "inviting me/guest" places but not happening fast.
> 
> Ex officially reached the "is she having an eating disorder or drug use" comment stage in community because of really just shocking weight loss. I just say, "not my problem" and try to move along.


Ever get that feeling you wI'll never be divorced legally or rid of her?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm in a state where it's very easy to prolong divorce. She did for a year and a half, now I filed an appeal. It's nuts but I've started to live like I'm divorced regardless.

I even took a pic of my final order I keep in my phone 

It was my sincere hope that filing the appeal would cause her to come back to the table, well I mean come for the first time, to try and settle. My belief is her mother will not let her, plus they both love to fight.

I'm really not sure if it's good or bad but I've really gotten much better at being pointed, tough and short in messages if I absolutely can't avoid communication.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Many on the forum wonder about dating.

I think I dated to soon, well I know I did.

Yet.... there is a wonderful world out there of people to meet and get to know. Everything I read says don't compare and contrast to ex - but I think if the ex is being horrible it really helps to show that the other sex does have some wonderful people. It has shown me how much I tolerated, put up and was simply used and not appreciated. I did fall into that 25 year relationship trap that I never saw ending and thought was great. I was really good at a lot of things I had no idea about = romantic, good with intimacy, planned fun things, kind, ethical, well read, smart, good advice, listener - things I was never told but now am and it feels pretty damn good.

It's strange to think I'd never even want to date her now and two years ago I'd have stopped bullets for her, given all I had in the world if she was sick, you name it.


----------



## turnera

What I tell people is, when you start dating again, don't see each other more than once a month, twice tops, for the first 3 to 5 months. Give yourself time to get to know them without the constant PEA-chemical-induced fog messing with your brain.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> I'm in a state where it's very easy to prolong divorce. She did for a year and a half, now I filed an appeal. It's nuts but I've started to live like I'm divorced regardless.
> 
> I even took a pic of my final order I keep in my phone
> 
> It was my sincere hope that filing the appeal would cause her to come back to the table, well I mean come for the first time, to try and settle. My belief is her mother will not let her, plus they both love to fight.
> 
> I'm really not sure if it's good or bad but I've really gotten much better at being pointed, tough and short in messages if I absolutely can't avoid communication.


Love to fight.....the magic phrase. The appeal ultimately gives her just what she wants, drama and still stuck in your life in some way other than just the kids. 

It's almost certain that if I can ever get to the mythical final order people claim happens this mess of mine will end up in appeal. Both lawyers agree on this given my STBX's love of fighting and drama


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> Love to fight.....the magic phrase. The appeal ultimately gives her just what she wants, drama and still stuck in your life in some way other than just the kids.
> 
> It's almost certain that if I can ever get to the mythical final order people claim happens this mess of mine will end up in appeal. Both lawyers agree on this given my STBX's love of fighting and drama


I find it harsh on the surface but...
MGTOW HQ ? Men Going Their Own Way Forums ? View topic - Man Wins Lottery. Will He Blow It?


----------



## LBHmidwest

turnera said:


> What I tell people is, when you start dating again, don't see each other more than once a month, twice tops, for the first 3 to 5 months. Give yourself time to get to know them without the constant PEA-chemical-induced fog messing with your brain.


This makes a lot of sense and of all the women I've went out with this has been the pace and the longest I've stayed interested in someone. We've been non-physical relatively and spent quality time doing quality things and having quality conversations (do I overuse quality...  )

For me, I'm not in a hurry and not the type to rush back into marriage so it's freeing in some ways to have things to look forward to, be able to date but not change myself to do so and find out maybe I'm not so bad of a guy!


----------



## Chuck71

Did you check out DeMello?

Compared to a year or two years ago, you are in such a better place

It's 5-3 in the ninth.... time to act like Mariano Rivera with an attitude


----------



## weightlifter

Is it me or do the MGTOW posters seem bitter to the point of unhealthy. i get not marrying again if its not your thing but the posters on that site seems over the top.


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> Is it me or do the MGTOW posters seem bitter to the point of unhealthy. i get not marrying again if its not your thing but the posters on that site seems over the top.


Like I said regarding the link I posted...
Ghost rider who started the thread I agree with.
I do NOT agree with the posters that say they are glad she is dead in fact I find that disgusting because 3 kids now don't have a mother.


----------



## Chuck71

weightlifter said:


> Is it me or do the MGTOW posters seem bitter to the point of unhealthy. i get not marrying again if its not your thing but the posters on that site seems over the top.


A few reminded me of the new age feminists... only difference in the two is who raises the lid to pee


----------



## weightlifter

If you've been burned and don't wish to marry, don't. I get it. The just seem poisonous.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm not giving up on life.

The very worst is $$$ and not having kids. Really, don't miss her at all. But, I think that's probably most guys a few years down the road. I really don't understand how judges can do the things they do. I have far less income than she does and more responsiblity - insurance, bigger chunk of bills and can't even get the required phone calls, clothing, etc.

One Fd up system. Really, why not divorce if you are a narcissistic person with lawyer money to burn?

I'm NOT a bitter, non introspective person. I see balance, think critically, it's just overwhelming how unfair the system is in this state at least.

I can only hope appeal works but if not, I can't and won't live like this. I just won't.


----------



## Goobertron

My condolences. It reminds me of what happened to me years ago. My now ex-wife seemed to go through a mid-life crisis, lost weight and told everyone she just didn't want to be married to me anymore. She was having an EA. The best advice I got is get on top of the property settlement stuff as soon as possible. If you still have a shared financial arrangement still you're very vulnerable. As the initiator she's way ahead right now, where as you're grieving, she's in the I'm sexy and single phase. Most likely she was dressing up as part of that or she may have been going to meet someone after and resented feeling guilty.


----------



## lovelyblue

LBH..read your thread..

So how you doing man and is your ex-wife still crazy?


----------



## Chuck71

LBHmidwest said:


> I'm not giving up on life.
> 
> The very worst is $$$ and not having kids. Really, don't miss her at all. But, I think that's probably most guys a few years down the road. I really don't understand how judges can do the things they do. I have far less income than she does and more responsiblity - insurance, bigger chunk of bills and can't even get the required phone calls, clothing, etc.
> 
> One Fd up system. Really, why not divorce if you are a narcissistic person with lawyer money to burn?
> 
> I'm NOT a bitter, non introspective person. I see balance, think critically, it's just overwhelming how unfair the system is in this state at least.
> 
> I can only hope appeal works but if not, I can't and won't live like this. I just won't.


You're farther along than you realize....

How old are your girls now?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Two years ago is when it all fell apart. I will lose 5 years of my life before this is over, I don't expect an official divorce until next summer at the earliest as of right now.

Goober - she has major self esteem issues and the need for money. While married I shielded her from family with my love and money. Now, her mother does that for her against me. She has radically changed from a casual person to now way over dresses for everything and wears clothes more appropriate for teens than a mid 40s woman. She is spending an enormous amount of money on herself, clothes, remodeling a house that is now a joke in town because the remodel has hit two years. She is a very attractive woman but haggard and manic - the pills.

Lovely - She is crazy, just sent me some crazy stuff just now. I ignore. Professionals tell me 2-5 years is the norm of irrational behavior or until major crisis occurs. That's unlikely as she has all the money she needs now and if her mom dies she'd actually be happy. I have come to understand that her ratcheting up behavior is in lock step with the better I'm doing. In other words, as I create more distance, heal, she tries harder to get me to engage, raises the stakes, flaunts the final order, says more outrageous lies - it's just what they do to get a reaction. Wanna p off a narcissist - ignore them. In fact, I now leave any time she sits anywhere near or tries to come by me in public. I have literally gotten up during games when she sits 2 or 3 chairs away from me and move across the gym. Yes, I realize she tells people from my community I'm a jerk, etc and won't even sit by her - she's just trying to be good and I won't behave nicely. Well... hopefully some people actually get how crazy it would be for her to literally stalk me like that. But if they don't, their problem. 

Chuck, started they were 5 and 8, 7 and 10 now.

One thing that is very odd is that so much of her blood family stuck with the girls and I. Ex and I are part of Shakespeare play about money, greed, mental illness, family issues, and plain insanity. This will not end well and I know it.

Funny story, I took a lovely smart MBA lady that has lived here, NY, SF and out for a really nice road trip to some lakes, parks, natural history day. She loves that stuff. I made a fancy lunch on my coleman stove at a beautiful lake, bottle of wine, made a fire, s'mores, blanket on the bank - perfect.

She's my age and no one, she said, had ever done a day that was so fun and so thoughtful and romantic her whole life. That WAS my wife's life, plus great kids, respectable husband. I mentioned the day to a few close friends, including some women, you'd have thought I was Fabio and I'm certainly not. Most of them were... "Wow, I can't imagine a day like that."

I'm far from perfect. I'm still a mess, I'm barely solvent, everything reminds me of her, I feel like a fool, I wasted half my life, I'm job locked.

If I can get my order changed to better financial terms, create a better life, and continue to create distance I'll make it. Some days I don't see it happening. I really don't.

I'll never ever understand the madness this was and is. I can't comprehend what drives a person to do this.

Last night I watch Gone Girl, first time, had been avoiding it. That woman was in some ways my ex - she was the world's best actress and just could be so sweet and terrible and beautiful and crazy and devious and uncomprehending about her own behavior. She actually looks a little like the ex so that was creepy too.

Now I'm thinking I should plan my murder at her hands


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Now I'm thinking I should plan my murder at her hands


Boy I know this feeling.......


----------



## just got it 55

LBH I have always followed your thread but haven't posted but once or twice.

I will add to Chucks comments

You have come a very long way.I have been in some tough financial times myself,

and I will tell you the type of man you appear to be on the interweb

you will work your way out of it.

You are doing what seems to be all the right things

Just a comment for encouragement is all I can offer

Keep your chin up young man 

55


----------



## LBHmidwest

Thanks 55, everyone. Your words mean a lot. 

I understand that my codependency is that I thought with her, being a nice good guy would have results. It doesn't, it's been a life lesson for me.

I fight hard on the inside about what I WANT to do. I struggle right now with the idea I should just chuck it all. From moving away to worse. 

It's a loss of control, a loss of having any idea of the future, mourning, knowing the pain my children suffer. When I start looking at loss - kids, family, identity, retirement, income, vehicle, cabin, boats, friends, significant job upgrades, sleep, self esteem - I can't imagine really ever quite getting "back".

I sit her needing tires on my dang vehicle, winter clothes for the kids, clothes for myself, numerous house repairs, oil change/maintenance for some equipment, tags coming due. And I watch her burn through money like water.

In the end I know, maybe I'll get lucky and what I do will somehow have some positive effect on my children.

Likely, it's all for naught but I will try to stay on the high road. And not many will know but me.

It's hard to play a game where whatever I do, it won't matter in regards to her. She will be what she is times 10, she's thriving on building her new image of herself now. Whatever I give her isn't enough, whatever choice I make is wrong, whatever happens she is both victim and victor. 

Funny you said chin up, I hear that a lot. But as time has went by, I don't talk as much and people begin to assume you are "fine". People who have not went through a Hurrican Divorce have no idea.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Thanks 55, everyone. Your words mean a lot.
> 
> I understand that my codependency is that I thought with her, being a nice good guy would have results. It doesn't, it's been a life lesson for me.
> 
> I fight hard on the inside about what I WANT to do. I struggle right now with the idea I should just chuck it all. From moving away to worse.
> 
> It's a loss of control, a loss of having any idea of the future, mourning, knowing the pain my children suffer. When I start looking at loss - kids, family, identity, retirement, income, vehicle, cabin, boats, friends, significant job upgrades, sleep, self esteem - I can't imagine really ever quite getting "back".
> 
> I sit her needing tires on my dang vehicle, winter clothes for the kids, clothes for myself, numerous house repairs, oil change/maintenance for some equipment, tags coming due. And I watch her burn through money like water.
> 
> In the end I know, maybe I'll get lucky and what I do will somehow have some positive effect on my children.
> 
> Likely, it's all for naught but I will try to stay on the high road. And not many will know but me.
> 
> It's hard to play a game where whatever I do, it won't matter in regards to her. She will be what she is times 10, she's thriving on building her new image of herself now. Whatever I give her isn't enough, whatever choice I make is wrong, whatever happens she is both victim and victor.
> 
> Funny you said chin up, I hear that a lot. But as time has went by, I don't talk as much and people begin to assume you are "fine". People who have not went through a Hurrican Divorce have no idea.


You will persevere, survive and ultimately win the war. You do need to take a stand for what you believe in which is what you are doing. 

You have children which add a whole new level in the game. Though they may not understand the struggle today and probably never will understand the whole dynamic of your situation you will have positive influence on them.


----------



## Chuck71

Do the girls know how to use a cell? This could take Lipo-Ho out of that equation.

A D takes its it toll and sad to say, when you don't talk about it anymore... people think you're fine.

We're men.... we shouldn't talk about this anyway.... remember we are men.... we could have both legs

chopped off but all we should want is to send our last $20 home to the wife and kids.

Yeah..... Statler Brothers... were pop's... his "drinking music" Burned them SOBs right after he died.

You would love to be where you are now.... a year ago. Wouldn't ya?

Every step you take towards a full recovery... you will hit a snag. Frustrating... yes

People can usually see BSC.... your STBXW appears to have it stamped on her forehead

She wants everything and is not happy when she gets it.... want that life?


----------



## LBHmidwest

When you think your life can't get worse it does. She and her attorney really really really got me today.

Checkmate inches closer

this is all a coma and i'll wake up, right?


----------



## turnera

You will wake up. When you're finally done with her and your NEW life starts without a POS like her in it.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> When you think your life can't get worse it does. She and her attorney really really really got me today.
> 
> Checkmate inches closer
> 
> this is all a coma and i'll wake up, right?


What did they pull this time?


----------



## lovelyblue

_she tries harder to get me to engage, raises the stakes, flaunts the final order, says more outrageous lies - it's just what they do to get a reaction_

Ugh my former-sis-in law is like this and I feel so bad for my brother.

I tell my brother to act like he doesn't care.. Just take care of the kids and ignore her stupidness.


----------



## LBHmidwest

She pulled a financial maneuver. Very nasty, attorney assured me that no judge would go for it - one did. Not good at all. I'm sure it's designed to get me to end the appeal.

Not a good day, at all.


----------



## happyman64

Don't end the appeal. 

Does she have leverage over you?


----------



## Chaparral

What you describe doesnt make it look like shes thriving. Looks more like she's losing it.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'm going to start a private thread


----------



## LBHmidwest

Merry Christmas all.

Hang in there on your painful journeys, put your children first, try to keep your dignity, smile, enjoy life even in the briefest moments.

May peace come to you in 2016


----------



## farsidejunky

You too, LBH.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## weightlifter

May 2016 be YOUR year.


----------



## Chuck71

LBH..... glad to hear from you. I noticed the other blog you posted. Are you doing okay?

You took your STBXW and MiLs best punches and you are still standing. What's that say about you?

Life is a mind game (popism) and a D sure as he!! is too. Hang tough.....

It is never how you start the race, it is how you finish it.

2016 will be defined by YOU...... not your anorexic pill popping STBXW.

Will you have the girls for Christmas this year?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Girls are with me for Christmas, as many of you know, just means they aren't the following year 

I've really struggled at times lately, Thanksgiving was very tough. The constant barrage just wore me down and I've had other personal struggles.

I do my best to maintain boundaries but it's so hard with children. Their clothes are horrible, they haven't even been given flu shots, she continues to do her worst on legal fronts and communication.

I went a long time without engaging but have pushed back a bit recently and will more so shortly. Just am email with documentation of areas that she's not following the order. Just to make sure she can't say I never told her. I know she's under a lot of pressure with things so I do think it will be her problem on how to process.

She left her career and is already unhappy a family member will not talk to her there. Been funny to hear about.

She showed up at an athletic event the other day in spandex. I was shocked at the weight loss. She is extremely thin but not that attractive to me, hard to explain. I'm sure to other men she is. I see the mannerisms and exaggeration and haggard.

The kids did meet someone and her children recently. That went extremely well, I realllllllly contemplated but it's someone I've had a long friendship with and know her children well. It was the best day I've had in two years. The kids were well behaved, I've gotten to know her children well. It really felt great. She made Christmas items with them, one was reading on her lap, board and card games, great food. The relationship aspects have went very very slow so that's a great thing. The girls are sitting here in the slippers, lip gloss, hair things and so on she gave them. Even better, she treats her ex with incredible respect. 

I don't know what will happen, have to get through the appeal and see. Life could get so good or be so tough yet after.


----------



## Chuck71

I totally get the clothes and money thing.... as a guy, I can sympathize completely. You feel in a way,

you are a failure. Get that thought out of your head. Your girls want to be with you regardless... at their age,

YOU are their saving grace from your XW, aka "The Miley Cyrus" of delusions and amphetamines. 

Christmas 1989, yes I was just out of high school, parent has a very rough year..... all I got for Christmas was 

underwear / socks (females pleeeeeeeeze..... stop treating this as a Christmas gift, we should enjoy those

gifts.... what's wrong with the pair I'd worn since 1982? LOL) and a box of my favorite ice cream 

from my lard-a$$ days of early teens.... Ice Cream Sandwiches.

I'd give anything to taste one of those again.... being pop has been gone 20 years and mom will never be

"mom" again after her stroke. It's hard to see this in the here and now.... he!! I didn't, took me many years.

Don't let them get you down..... every time you feel like giving up.... look into their eyes.... that's all you need.

You have come way too far to give up now.

You find your XW not sexy because you see her for what she is.... on the inside. Other guys will realize this too....

When I ended it with my ex gf last year, I sent her XH a sympathy message..... we "knew of" each other

back in the day..... Maybe you'll get a few yourself...

I don't have kids.... if I did, I would not care where we were, as long as we were together and safe.

Sending you good vibes out West


----------



## LBHmidwest

I know meeting someone will just cause her to ramp up. I did laugh yesterday morning, my youngest asked mom what her boyfriends got her for Christmas. Yes, plural. Was it I laughed cuz it was funny... no.

My youngest has holes in her shoes and we have snow, I'll send her back in some from my house.


----------



## Chuck71

I agree she will ramp it up...... why?

You are in a solid LTR with respect and boundaries. Y'know... what most any female would want with a man.

Your XW... is playing the field with guys who only want ONS. I can almost bet money, the guys she is with... are much

lower income and are using her for her money, not to mention sex.

She wants what YOU have. So when she sees you having what she wants, yes she will get upset.

But LBH... you are living your life for YOU and the two girls. Maybe your XW is jealous of your new gal because

she knows what you can bring to an LTR.

She is having "buyers remorse" but that is HER problem.

LBH when you buy clothes , shoes for your girls... can they only wear them when they are with you?

Can you refit them with the clothes they came over with, when the -child swap- takes place?


----------



## LBHmidwest

The court order requires her to provide clothing. She has totally ignored it, I've brought it up a few times. I always bought half the clothes previous to D taking a guess. I heard D7 beg for shoes twice on the phone at my house now. It's like... their mother just isn't paying attention.

She may be using younger men but I'd bet she is finding wealthy men actually if she wants any type of relationship. She likes money. I'm sure she's enjoying her new body to the fullest.

Who knows how solid anything is for my friend, I didn't do it to hurt ex. I felt I was at a point that it was fair for her to meet mine and I feel a lot of family normalcy with her and children and found out my children quickly felt the same

I doubt there's any remorse on her part, any feeling of loss, anything except I continue to ruin her life - she isn't divorced, she doesn't have my retirement, she doesn't have 100% of girls, she spent Christmas with a small part of her family while the rest and my family were together, I won't communicate in anything but briefest rarest terms.

I don't know what her "happiness" was supposed to look like. I doubt she did either.

When someone you love does this and being together 25 years there is always a part of me that will love her and pray for her. I wish it wasn't true but it. For my daughters sake I hope she can find some semblance of a life.

Until then, I'll continue to detach and think of her less and less.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> The court order requires her to provide clothing. She has totally ignored it, I've brought it up a few times. I always bought half the clothes previous to D taking a guess. I heard D7 beg for shoes twice on the phone at my house now. It's like... their mother just isn't paying attention.
> 
> She may be using younger men but I'd bet she is finding wealthy men actually if she wants any type of relationship. She likes money. I'm sure she's enjoying her new body to the fullest.
> 
> Who knows how solid anything is for my friend, I didn't do it to hurt ex. I felt I was at a point that it was fair for her to meet mine and I feel a lot of family normalcy with her and children and found out my children quickly felt the same
> 
> I doubt there's any remorse on her part, any feeling of loss, anything except I continue to ruin her life - she isn't divorced, she doesn't have my retirement, she doesn't have 100% of girls, she spent Christmas with a small part of her family while the rest and my family were together, I won't communicate in anything but briefest rarest terms.
> 
> I don't know what her "happiness" was supposed to look like. I doubt she did either.
> 
> When someone you love does this and being together 25 years there is always a part of me that will love her and pray for her. I wish it wasn't true but it. For my daughters sake I hope she can find some semblance of a life.
> 
> Until then, I'll continue to detach and think of her less and less.


She is paying attention regarding clothes, she also knows you will take care of it. This is one of the crappy parts of divorce when you have one that is responsible and one that's not. The irresponsible always know the other person will take care of it.


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## Chuck71

Document (photos) and contact DHS. Could help you in future custody hearings.

Does she receive any CS?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Just a Little  Not far off the per capita earnings in this county.


----------



## weightlifter

Isnt she a gazillionaire thru mommys money?

No shoes? dubya tee eff.


----------



## weightlifter

BTW while many in her family support you. Be nice but not too nice. You never know who may have a spouse who is a mole.


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## Chuck71

Your CS is for the kid's shoes, clothes, coats, school supplies.

This needs to be brought up in court. At least have something in place when you have to buy them,

you can deduct it from CS amount.

She needs to stop buying those Gdamn Lipo Blast diet pills and buy her kids some damn shoes. #%^&%$#


----------



## LBHmidwest

My favorite. Tells girls how many presents her and grandma bought them for Christmas, they go there for rest of school break. No biggy...

Then they tell me she told them she got 3 Santa presents because she was so good last year. She asked how many I got from Santa. Of course, none... I can only shake my head as the girls keep asking why I didn't get any if mom did.

I'm smiling about it, really. Not much I can do. I worry about things changing, not a mole. No one even goes to their Christmas or other activities anymore and they give up a big check to skip. 

I actually want her family to reconcile, best for my kids if they have a functioning family. It will take the death of grandma and then a will that doesn't wreak havoc but I'm sure it will and just harden things further.


----------



## Chuck71

I have a feeling when granny dies, her will will unleash more havoc than WW2 in Europe.

I have said it before and I will say it again.... if I ever get one of those incurable STDs

I want you to introduce me to your XW *schiteatinggrin*


----------



## LBHmidwest

Appeal over, should hear end of the month on decision

Her man is public, brother of her best friend she used to party with, spend time with her when she cheated on her husband. He's an exact copy of me but ten years older. EERIE exact copy. His wife left him 3-4 years ago.

Kids saying he now spends the night with them.

This has just been the best 29 months ever!


----------



## ReidWright

LBHmidwest said:


> Appeal over, should hear end of the month on decision
> 
> Her man is public, brother of her best friend she used to party with, spend time with her when she cheated on her husband. He's an exact copy of me but ten years older. EERIE exact copy. His wife left him 3-4 years ago.
> 
> Kids saying he now spends the night with them.
> 
> This has just been the best 29 months ever!


sounds like you're better off now, good for you!

I think you tried a lot of things but never could find out any details when she was stepping out, right?

Any lessons learned for future investigators? Anything you would do differently to get evidence? any red flags in hindsight?


----------



## LBHmidwest

I think that every situation is different.

I didn't see it coming, woke up with no money and 2 months of bills. That precluded even basic attempts at finding out and honestly at first I didn't think so. Really my first clue was a month or two after she left when someone shared errant texts and even that wasn't very conclusive.

I think if your intuition says something is going on, it probably is if you are an otherwise rational person.

One night before she left I looked at her phone and it was locked for the first time. I should have just taken it right then and there.

In some ways I really care - man with my kids overnight and she leave them with him. In other ways, just get out of my life.

She wore a mexican vacation dress to our daughters church event. Just watching a mid 40s woman become a teenager. It's painful.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> Appeal over, should hear end of the month on decision
> 
> Her man is public, brother of her best friend she used to party with, spend time with her when she cheated on her husband. He's an exact copy of me but ten years older. EERIE exact copy. His wife left him 3-4 years ago.
> 
> Kids saying he now spends the night with them.
> 
> This has just been the best 29 months ever!


Hopefully they will rule by the end of the month, it must be a relief that the hearing is over with at least.


----------



## anewstine

LBHmidwest said:


> I think that every situation is different.
> 
> I didn't see it coming, woke up with no money and 2 months of bills. That precluded even basic attempts at finding out and honestly at first I didn't think so. Really my first clue was a month or two after she left when someone shared errant texts and even that wasn't very conclusive.
> 
> I think if your intuition says something is going on, it probably is if you are an otherwise rational person.
> 
> One night before she left I looked at her phone and it was locked for the first time. I should have just taken it right then and there.
> 
> In some ways I really care - man with my kids overnight and she leave them with him. In other ways, just get out of my life.
> 
> She wore a mexican vacation dress to our daughters church event. Just watching a mid 40s woman become a teenager. It's painful.


I went back and read your original post, our situations are somewhat similar. I too don't recognize who I married at this point. He has changed into someone I don't recognize and has become a poster child for a midlife crisis, overnight seemingly. I am so sorry that you too are having to go through this. And the worst part is the kids. I have a 5 year old (we were married for 16+ years) and that is the worst part and worry about the same things that you are. I hate that we were caught in these idiots wave of destruction.


----------



## AVR1962

LBHmidwest said:


> She remained in the house for a few weeks though I was mostly away. She bought a new house immediately (family wealth) and is renovating.
> 
> At first the communication was all a long list of complaints in person, seemed she wanted to get a lot off her chest. I have NEVER argued, or denied. I agreed with some/most of it. Housework, laundry, more appreciative (yet I gave her flowers, complimented her, nice vacations for family, etc.) I have pointed out some of her flawed logic for the future (she thinks she will have the kids for every holiday, all summer, etc - she is under the illusion she controls our kids for whatever reason).
> 
> Now I get minimal communication regarding things with the children or bills. She's walked away from almost all the bills. We don't have any agreement in place so I don't want to ruin our credit. She seemingly has a never ending source of money but ran down our accounts and left 2 months of bills with my first check 2 weeks away.
> 
> I am doing everything I can for the kids. I did everything "wrong" at first - I begged, went to counseling, asked her to do so.Did everything I could to make her comfortable, get things out of the house, boxes and boxes of food, etc. I've been civil, nice, never argued, listened, been berated - "taken it". I'm trying the 180 now but she's fixated on herself anyway.
> 
> The last two weeks communication has mostly ceased unless she needs to clarify something or warn/ask me to pay a new bill. Just try to do your flex and medical allocations with this going on! She had new hair, perfume, and so on the other night when she dropped off the kids an hour late. Continues to lose weight too. I complimented her on looking nice and got yelled at for 5 minutes for saying that - she denied she looked nice.... Ohhhhhh K and it was none of my business if she was dressed up.
> 
> I don't have proof of anything, just a lot of small things, texts, etc. Gaps in time, etc. Hard to prove but seem to keep adding up. I have not done a real investigation but I'm in a no fault state and it won't matter anyway, would to me but in my heart I know.
> 
> I should say, like probably a lot of husbands, I can see some of her points about me - there is no doubt I was not perfect. On the other hand her criticisms went from minor to major and very lengthy going back to when we dated over the. Over the next few weeks after I was informed. I never drink, yell, scream, fight, love my wife and kids, solid community guy, we have tons of friends. But like so many say, my self esteem is shot at this point. I know it's about HER but all she talked about was AWFUL ME. I caused her to leave. I know intellectually it isn't true it's just a way to control the narrative and justification of an emotional divorce but convincing myself at night is a new thing.
> 
> If you are reading, imagine your life. Your kids, dog, activity and now it's GONE. Some of you are ahead of me. I never had an inkling.
> 
> I have to focus on my children and my health. I know I'm cracking up, not eating, not sleeping and so on. I am starting the Divorce Care classes and am in counseling. I'm working out, friends are trying. Some of the help isn't help but hearts are in the right place.
> 
> She tried to pull some fast ones at our church, child support calculations and temporary custody. That is scratching the surface.
> 
> Last night my kids called at 9 pm, the youngest is 5. They still hadn't had supper and they normally are in bed at 8:15. It's just killing me, yes I'm documenting.


My first husband left me after 7 years marriage. He was my high school sweetheart. He had always told me how special I was to him, how he loved me and we would hug passing in the house. He ended up falling in love with another woman and I was pushed away. I too did not see it coming. I was shocked, there was no explanation except he was in love with two women and he thought he wanted to marry her.

If you have not found a counselor I recommend it. You need a support system to get thru this. One thing I can say, is if she is having an affair you did not push her into it. People can be very unhappy in their marriage and not seek out an affair.


----------



## LBHmidwest

AVR I'm better and I'm not, it was 29 months ago and still not divorced.

Thanks for your kind words. 

I just had no clue, looking back now I can see things and still find things I didn't have any idea about. Something a friend or family member brings up, a new story.

The guy is the brother of her crazy best friend. His wife life him shortly before. It's just come full circle.


----------



## AVR1962

LBHmidwest said:


> AVR I'm better and I'm not, it was 29 months ago and still not divorced.
> 
> Thanks for your kind words.
> 
> I just had no clue, looking back now I can see things and still find things I didn't have any idea about. Something a friend or family member brings up, a new story.
> 
> The guy is the brother of her crazy best friend. His wife life him shortly before. It's just come full circle.


I think when we are truly in love with someone we are willing to overlook faults that should speak to us. Even though my first husband had an affair and left like you wife did I had a very hard time getting over him and moving on with my life.At the 2 year point his affair had broke up with him and he was with someone else. He had come to the house and was hanging around acting like he was interested in me, made a comment that we had alot of fun in the bed which I did not take up on. About 45 minutes later he tells me he needs to go, his girlfriend is waiting in the car. At point I realized that had I taken him up on his offer he was doing to his girlfriend what he had done to me. I had no idea she was in the car. It was a real turning moment for me. I knew he had not changed and he was doing the same to her. I realized then I was worth more and I no longer wanted to be treated like this.


----------



## happyman64

LBH

Not much longer now and you will be free.

Praying that your kids will be ok and someday, mark my words, they will fully understand what Mom really did that broke up your family.

HM


----------



## LBHmidwest

Very sorry and glad you didn't go back to him! His loss.

I hope she gets better and it's a good ending. Nothing about me, they look back and don't remember it sucked, it was good. Not likely... but....

Our new pastor stopped today and asked if she could help mediate and bring ex and I together for kids. Apparently a parishioner or two had "shared" with her. I calmly, clinically, coldly answered her questions. She was very methodical.

She noticed behaviors including a very inappropriate dress at first communion and asked if ex really bonded with girls as a mother. I'd never been asked that. Honestly, no. I know she loves them, but it's a cold, detached physical love but one that is very demanding of them.

She too noticed her guy are the same car, he's just older. Surreal.


----------



## anewstine

LBHmidwest said:


> Very sorry and glad you didn't go back to him! His loss.
> 
> I hope she gets better and it's a good ending. Nothing about me, they look back and don't remember it sucked, it was good. Not likely... but....
> 
> Our new pastor stopped today and asked if she could help mediate and bring ex and I together for kids. Apparently a parishioner or two had "shared" with her. I calmly, clinically, coldly answered her questions. She was very methodical.
> 
> She noticed behaviors including a very inappropriate dress at first communion and asked if ex really bonded with girls as a mother. I'd never been asked that. Honestly, no. I know she loves them, but it's a cold, detached physical love but one that is very demanding of them.
> 
> She too noticed her guy are the same car, he's just older. Surreal.


I just don't understand how they can do this to their families. Do they have no guilt or shame? Why can't they take responsibility? I don't know and I wish I did. But the fact is that we deserve so much more and our kids do too. I just wish it didn't affect them so much in the meantime. I am praying for you and your children. Hang in there.


----------



## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> AVR I'm better and I'm not, it was 29 months ago and still not divorced.
> 
> Thanks for your kind words.
> 
> I just had no clue, looking back now I can see things and still find things I didn't have any idea about. Something a friend or family member brings up, a new story.
> 
> The guy is the brother of her crazy best friend. His wife life him shortly before. It's just come full circle.


37 months and we didn't have kids to fight about. Your already are in appeals court. Your divorce is on the fast track! Sorry but I do need to bring some of my bad humor into things at times...

I don't think you can get completely better until the legal cap is done for good. Every stupid letter from a lawyer, every court notice, it all drags you right back the mess and drags up hurt and emotional pain over and over. 

Everytime i get an email from my lawyer, all I need to do is see his name or email address and I can feel my blood pressure skyrocket.


----------



## anewstine

honcho said:


> 37 months and we didn't have kids to fight about. Your already are in appeals court. Your divorce is on the fast track! Sorry but I do need to bring some of my bad humor into things at times...
> 
> I don't think you can get completely better until the legal cap is done for good. Every stupid letter from a lawyer, every court notice, it all drags you right back the mess and drags up hurt and emotional pain over and over.
> 
> Everytime i get an email from my lawyer, all I need to do is see his name or email address and I can feel my blood pressure skyrocket.


You poor thing. That is a ridiculously long time. I am just starting my process. People suck don't they...its not bad enough that they did what they did but now they have to twist the knife.


----------



## honcho

anewstine said:


> You poor thing. That is a ridiculously long time. I am just starting my process. People suck don't they...its not bad enough that they did what they did but now they have to twist the knife.


The long time is a result of divorcing crazy people, me and LBH got blessed with nutjobs. 

Cut your deal, be fair, don't try and "win" in the game of divorce. Do it as quick as you can and treat divorce like cancer. You want the fastest quickest way to remove it from your life and start to heal yourself.


----------



## tom67

Honcho and LB you are not alone... :frown2:

This is not for you two especially LB but newbies have to see this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEOwjfpZwak


----------



## LBHmidwest

It is done. I've spent everything I have and more. I've sacrificed, done everything I can to be a good man, father, fight for my girls. Appeal gave minimal relief. It's like reading fiction. I have never understood how her testimony, without documentation, was accepted by the courts for our income, retirement, etc. I know appeals rarely succeed but I expected more. I won a little. I find it amazing how things are 180 degrees the opposite of what was "truth".

It is done. I am divorced. I was approached by a few companies recently. I'd always said no for 20+ years but for some reason I said yes and start a new, better job soon. I will lose time with the kids, job requires a move. She'll be back for more pay soon. 

I have no advice. I fought and lost. There is no "justice" in my case. None. An evil person was rewarded for her actions, continues to be atrocious, and now has the live in that's my ten year older twin.

Seems like I'm getting myself together, what's left of me anyway. Moving out of my 25 year house and job, I've found someone I really like but it's challenging to date with kids and now I'm moving further away.

Excited about job and new town, I'll be able to do some recreational things, buy a nicer home than I have now.

Divorce is miserable, with a rich narcissist it's beyond comprehension.


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## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> It is done. I've spent everything I have and more. I've sacrificed, done everything I can to be a good man, father, fight for my girls. Appeal gave minimal relief. It's like reading fiction. I have never understood how her testimony, without documentation, was accepted by the courts for our income, retirement, etc. I know appeals rarely succeed but I expected more. I won a little. I find it amazing how things are 180 degrees the opposite of what was "truth".
> 
> It is done. I am divorced. I was approached by a few companies recently. I'd always said no for 20+ years but for some reason I said yes and start a new, better job soon. I will lose time with the kids, job requires a move. She'll be back for more pay soon.
> 
> I have no advice. I fought and lost. There is no "justice" in my case. None. An evil person was rewarded for her actions, continues to be atrocious, and now has the live in that's my ten year older twin.
> 
> Seems like I'm getting myself together, what's left of me anyway. Moving out of my 25 year house and job, I've found someone I really like but it's challenging to date with kids and now I'm moving further away.
> 
> Excited about job and new town, I'll be able to do some recreational things, buy a nicer home than I have now.
> 
> Divorce is miserable, with a rich narcissist it's beyond comprehension.


I'm so sorry it ended as it has for you. In the world of divorce the more you lie and break the rules the more you get rewarded and it's get proven time and time again by this broken system. 

In my state as much as I wanted to appeal all that would have happened had I won appeal the whole case just gets kicked back to the original idiot judge for retrial. As bad as he was the first time the second would be just as bad. I still stew about the whole impartial legal system joke. 

You have a new job in a new town, a fresh start. Make the best of it, it's all any of us can do. Try not to be too jaded by the whole ordeal.


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## Chuck71

Don't know what to say. The courts in your state are truly f'ed up. 

A change of scenery may be a good thing for you.

In a few years your girls will be old enough to decide where they want to stay.

Outcomes like this is why more and more men refuse to get M


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## honcho

LBHmidwest said:


> It is done. I've spent everything I have and more. I've sacrificed, done everything I can to be a good man, father, fight for my girls. Appeal gave minimal relief. It's like reading fiction. I have never understood how her testimony, without documentation, was accepted by the courts for our income, retirement, etc. I know appeals rarely succeed but I expected more. I won a little. I find it amazing how things are 180 degrees the opposite of what was "truth".
> 
> It is done. I am divorced. I was approached by a few companies recently. I'd always said no for 20+ years but for some reason I said yes and start a new, better job soon. I will lose time with the kids, job requires a move. She'll be back for more pay soon.
> 
> I have no advice. I fought and lost. There is no "justice" in my case. None. An evil person was rewarded for her actions, continues to be atrocious, and now has the live in that's my ten year older twin.
> 
> Seems like I'm getting myself together, what's left of me anyway. Moving out of my 25 year house and job, I've found someone I really like but it's challenging to date with kids and now I'm moving further away.
> 
> Excited about job and new town, I'll be able to do some recreational things, buy a nicer home than I have now.
> 
> Divorce is miserable, with a rich narcissist it's beyond comprehension.



How are things going for you LBH?


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