# Had another D-day yesterday....need advice.



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Terrible terrible day yesterday...got no sleep last night..called in sick to work.

How it started:

Something kept telling me all week to check his truck so I did yesterday while he was still sleeping...lifted up the backseat and there is a built in storage container..guess what..discovered a laptop! I guess he went out and bought a refurbished laptop for about $75.00.

Started shaking inside and out..took it out and went upstairs and woke him up and confronted him...after about half an hour he admitted that about a month ago he initiated contact with his EA. We were definently going thru a really rough patch the last couple of months..and he said he needed a place to get a respite from our arguments, etc. I was ****ing livid...told him to get the **** out. Everybody I talked to from my sister, etc. thinks I should kick him out even just for a bit..but it is so hard..I love him and want this to work. Plus I know how it has been the last couple of months..lots of tension and anger on my side.

I feel sick inside...he came back and both of us talked thru the night and he was crying, etc. He said it was like he needed that fun flirtatiousness from her because all he got from me was *****ing and anger and resentment. He is going to destroy this laptop this morning in front of me because I told him if he wants this to work we have to have zero contact with her.

Am I fool???

22 year old son is livid..I told him yesterday what his dad did and he is even taking out his anger on me telling me that I am gutless for not kicking him out...I feel like crap..this is even worse than when I first discovered EA last fall.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

doubt it was just the one time contact


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

highwood said:


> 22 year old son is livid..I told him yesterday what his dad did and he is even taking out his anger on me telling me that I am gutless for not kicking him out...I feel like crap..this is even worse than when I first discovered EA last fall.


Hurtful, but your son's not entirely wrong. Why is he still there?


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree...I am still debating kicking him out. But then I find myself thinking then that even gives him more free time to make contact with her.

I don't know my heart and my head are telling me two different things....


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Highwood, I'm so sorry that you are going thru this- again. Remember that affairs are an addiction; it's like dealing w/ an alcoholic, and you just found the bottle under his truck seat. You cannot change him. He has to do that. For him to arrive at that place, he has to feel the bottom. That means facing the consequences of his actions. If you let him back in, he will view that as no harm, no foul, and he will continue his destructive behavior. He has to see his world caving in on him. Prayers are with you.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I am so sorry. I understand when you say you love him and want it to work.
Do you love him with his lies, or do you love want you want your marriage to be. Because he lied when he bought the computer, and lied when he hid it from you, and then lied when he contacted her-again, and lied ....
He is effectively blaming you for his contact, saying all he gets from you is anger and he didn't like it. From where does your anger come? His original EA? Too bad, He has to suck it up. 
You have the right to be respected, and I don't see that happening so far. Have you asked to see all the contact from the new computer?


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## Alecia4 (Apr 17, 2011)

I have learned through my own experience and research that many people who have affairs make multiple contacts with their affair partners before maintaining zero contact. Obviously zero contact is a necessity and your spouse needs to be willing to do that. But a slip up does not mean that he doesn't love you or that your marriage won't work. 
I'd encourage you to visit my husband and I's blog where we tell our story as well as provide links to other sites with similar stories. My husband had multiple affairs and almost left us for his last one because it wasn't just sexual but became emotional. After confessing and ending it he attempted contact one time unsuccessfully and then gained contact one time after that for a period of two weeks. I know exactly how you feel. I'm not sure that "livid" even begins to describe how it feels. You have to start the trust building from ground zero all over again! But it can be done if he is willing.There is still hope. 

Marriage Life


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## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

Awww, Highwood--so sorry for you. 

Look I have been where you were after my Dday-wanting to kick him out but not wanting to give him time with the OW. 

I had to kick him out that first night. Told him GTFO and go be with your w***e. I had too. 
He slept in the car in our driveway. 
He begged and pleaded the next morning. I was pulling my 180 (my own way-I had never read this board yet) but I did let him back in the house. Partly just so he couldn't be sleeping with her. I still wouldn't speak to him or look at him pretty much for 3 days, and I also picked my self up and went out every night. One night until 2am. He was so frantic. It was kind of funny & pathetic at the same time. Anyhow my intentions were not right at first (I was out of my mind nuts/hurt/sad) but it worked out. It will only even work if your spouse is really truly done. And if not-there is nothing you can do, except make it hard as hell on him & the OW. 
Also-you should have kept that laptop--and not confronted until you got to see what was on it! It's not like he would have reported it stolen! Imagine if he went to get it out of his truck and it was gone! Patience my friend. Good luck to you.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Implement *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559* as well as *The 180 degree rules* to emotionally empower yourself to move on with your life, with or without him.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

sunshinetoday said:


> Also-you should have kept that laptop--and not confronted until you got to see what was on it!


I completely agree with this.

It's not just about the contact with the OW that he's hiding. It's what's going on between them. It could be anything from him bothering her in an unrequited way up to the two of them planning how they're going off into the sunset together with all of your money.

There is this big problem that happens post DD, where you are furiously angry and disgusted by him, but these very justifiable reactions have the effect of pushing him further away. It is a tightrope you walk. I found reading Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair shed light on how to handle all of this. As morituri suggests, DO THE 180. It gives your body and brain something to do other than obsess about his behavior, which is beyond your control. You will need to do this anyhow, no matter what the future holds--so start TODAY.

(Also I assume because you've been on this merry-go-round for a while, that you are fully up to speed on Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.)

But I agree with what's been said, he has not hit rock bottom, he does not believe that there are consequences for his behavior other than you being deeply hurt and angry. That is just not enough. Don't beat yourself up over it: if that's all it took, TAM would not exist.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Highwood, so sorry. I let my anger get the best of me since December and I became the bad guy. I got my anger under control for several weeks now but there was a lot of damage done to my wife. I can say she deserved it initially but not the constant barrage over several months. 

I would have thought about going balistic if I found out if my WS was in contact with the OM or started something with someone else. Though keeping my anger under control is very important to me right now, for my own sake.

I would opt for full disclosure, full accountability, a NC letter. Kind of a start over deal. It sucks, but if you want your marriage to work, you are more or less back at square one. 

As justified as we (BS's) may feel, get your anger under control. Seriously. It is doing you any good. You have a right to be angry, but don't go over the top. 

Get your anger under control. 

It is another betrayal all over again.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Highwood, looking back on my DDay #2 almost a year later, even though it made me so angry and hurt so much I am almost grateful for it because it got me out of limbo and made me realize my ex was not committed to me, had not been committed for a long time (if ever??) nor was going to ever stay committed again. So I took off my ring that very moment, and reached for the yellowpages, and looked up attorneys at law.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

This is terrible, truly. I understand that they get a dopamine rush out of their affairs that is like an addiction. But seriously, this is way out of the park. It is so planned, premeditated and meant to benefit himself at your expense. All for him and to he!! with his wife and family? And the woman is younger than your son??

Sorry you have to go through this. I am also in R. It is so hard because you don't know what the truth is. The thing that kills me, is that THEY KNOW THE TRUTH. They know what is going on. And we have to run around trying to figure it out while they stall, lie, minimize, blame-shift and gaslight.

Don't let him make a fool out of you. You are right, if you are nice or talk about the weather or be in the same room, he WILL see that as everything is alright. My H is the same way. 

Be strong and please take care of yourself. BTW, why do you feel that he thought he got away with it? What skills did you employ to catch him?


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

Oh, and yes, agree with the poster who said 180 time.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Is an EA worth £75/$? That is surely worth looking at. That is a lot of money to spend on 'chat'.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

Sorry about the younger than your son comment, unless it is true of course. I think I may have confused two posts. Need more coffee!!


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

No, the EA is the same age as me..43.

I waver back and forth...not sure..we are starting MC tomorrow with a new counsellor. We both agreed that we cannot get thru this w/o any outside help. I feel like crap....he knows my trust for him after this is at rock bottom.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Do you know if this counselor is trained in dealing with infidelity?

My WS and I just had our first MC session this Saturday post DD#2. New MC, we went through MC after DD#1 three years ago, but he was in the EA the whole time.

This new MC is like night and day to the old one. The old one just didn't know the questions to ask. Never once asked if my WS had broken it off--that was just assumed, because no one in their right mind goes to MC while in an EA, right????? :rofl: Gosh this stuff makes you so cynical once you've learned the hard way.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

highwood said:


> No, the EA is the same age as me..43.
> 
> I waver back and forth...not sure..we are starting MC tomorrow with a new counsellor. We both agreed that we cannot get thru this w/o any outside help. I feel like crap....he knows my trust for him after this is at rock bottom.


I hope your MC deals with the affair first. And no, he deserves no trust from you at this point. Except that you can trust he will lie to your face!

If you have time to read the link Just Let Them Go, it helps you out of anger's grip. I have had a hard time controlling emotion also, and it helped very much.

{HUGS}


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

ParachuteOn said:


> If you have time to read the link Just Let Them Go, it helps you out of anger's grip. I have had a hard time controlling emotion also, and it helped very much.
> 
> {HUGS}


where is this link parachute? 

Good Luck highwood....sorry! Oh and it was my H that kissed a girl the same age as our son or close to it (I might or might not have posted that somewhere on here). Drunk night. Phones blew up that night amongst all the kids. really embarrassing to say the least for all of us.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Do you know if this counselor is trained in dealing with infidelity?
> 
> My WS and I just had our first MC session this Saturday post DD#2. New MC, we went through MC after DD#1 three years ago, but he was in the EA the whole time.
> 
> This new MC is like night and day to the old one. The old one just didn't know the questions to ask. Never once asked if my WS had broken it off--that was just assumed, because no one in their right mind goes to MC while in an EA, right????? :rofl: Gosh this stuff makes you so cynical once you've learned the hard way.


To elaborate further, my MC knew all the lingo--discussed how to draft an NC letter, the fact that I would supervise it and mail it certified mail, discussed exposure, the works. Had a copy of Not Just Friends right on his bookshelf.

Brought right out into the open the yearning by WS had for the OW and how tremendously hard it is to break contact. Discussed the importance of independent verification, insisted that I install spy software on his phone as a means for both of us to show our commitment to the marriage.

I already knew we had turned the corner before the session, but wow what an affirmation it was of all things TAM.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

If you can get your hands on that laptop again, do it! You NEED to know if this is EA has already gone PA. Chances are that it has if he's gone thru the trouble of spending money on a secret laptop. You need to do this to protect yourself and your health.

You really need to get over this fear that pushing him away will bring him closer to her. The reality is this: He already is with her emotionally and you've lost him. What R is about is rebuilding a new marriage because the old one was destroyed by infidelity.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> To elaborate further, my MC knew all the lingo--discussed how to draft an NC letter, the fact that I would supervise it and mail it certified mail, discussed exposure, the works. Had a copy of Not Just Friends right on his bookshelf.
> 
> Brought right out into the open the yearning by WS had for the OW and how tremendously hard it is to break contact. Discussed the importance of independent verification, insisted that I install spy software on his phone as a means for both of us to show our commitment to the marriage.
> 
> I already knew we had turned the corner before the session, but wow what an affirmation it was of all things TAM.


Awesome. :smthumbup:

You had a great MC. Its a shame a lot of MCs aren't like the one you had. Many dont have experience in dealing with infidelity and end up validating the WSs affair.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

I've been down the same path as you. My husband has been detached from our marriage for years. We start MC last year and I find out he is still in love with an "old friend". They see each other, he pours out his heart to her, mostly about our marriage (he won't talk to me), they call each other and text. She is married too! This has been going on for 12 years! 

A complete lack and absence of boundaries from him and her. They have none. He doesn't see anything wrong with what he is doing. He really doesn't.

He blames me, quote: "you should have told me before we got married what you expected of me"!!! I said "you should have told me about your secret love of your life before we got married". 

No wonder he can't emotionally connect to me. I told him I wanted him to go no contact late last year. He told me to go f$#k myself and said I was trying to control him. He moved out. 3 months later he was asking to come home. I told him he has to ditch the "friend". He did. Fast forward to now, he tells me he wants a divorce because he misses "her" and has "nobody to talk to" and my "expectations of him are too high".

Are you kidding me? He just does not have what it takes to be in a marriage. It is clear after all the MC we've been through that he is emotionally retarded, unable to connect with the primary relationship person - me, his wife. I said FINE go ahead and file, I will not live the rest of my life like this, and when are you moving out??


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

brokenbythis said:


> I've been down the same path as you. My husband has been detached from our marriage for years. We start MC last year and I find out he is still in love with an "old friend". They see each other, he pours out his heart to her, mostly about our marriage (he won't talk to me), they call each other and text. She is married too! This has been going on for 12 years!
> 
> A complete lack and absence of boundaries from him and her. They have none. He doesn't see anything wrong with what he is doing. He really doesn't.
> 
> ...


OMG. Kick his ass to the curb and rake him over the coals in the divorce.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

Ingalls said:


> where is this link parachute?
> 
> Good Luck highwood....sorry! Oh and it was my H that kissed a girl the same age as our son or close to it (I might or might not have posted that somewhere on here). Drunk night. Phones blew up that night amongst all the kids. really embarrassing to say the least for all of us.


Link is in LordMayhems signature, but I think Morituri already posted it here earlier.

I am sorry but Boo-Hoo so what all he got was b!tching from you, did he think getting a laptop to stroke his ego was going to make you STOP b!tching?? 

No way. He is a big fat liar. I know you love him, but he needs to wake up fast. Isn't he your son's father? Your son has a right to his feelings, but the next time he says stuff like that to you, tell him to go tell his father how he feels. Let them have it out. You shouldn't be taking it from all sides. He is plenty old enough to talk man-to-man.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

Highwood, hope things are better for you today.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

High, Ive been there with my heart and head at war. All I can say is you gave him a second chance and he blew it. You must play hard ball if you have ANY prayer of saving your marriage. You must do this for yourself and because your son is watching. Put him OUT. And go from there.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks all for your concern! It is better today after 3 rough days...yesterday we had it out and I told him to man up and that if he wanted to be in this marriage he has to commit 100% because I don't deserve this crap. He agreed and said he wants to start marriage counselling again..so we are booked in on Friday. He also on his own without me or anyone telling him..he did up an email to her that essentially told her that he was sorry for leading her on and that he needs to work on his marriage...he sent it in front of me and let me read it prior.

I know he has been dealing with other issues for the last couple of years which does not excuse what he did in anyway however it contributed to this behaviour.

I know some will not agree with my decision but I am proceeding with caution becuase I do love him and do not want a divorce and either does he...it will be a long road in front of us however I think with good MC that will help. I think feeling ashamed about what his family/my family are thinking did shake him up quite a bit. THe last two days have been hell for him and he hit rock bottom.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I forgot to add that I also sent her many emails over the last couple of days telling her to **** off and that I want to hear from her as to how she can carry on with a married man but as I know she is gutless she will not do it. Of course I got no response..I called her a piece of trash who knew he was married and didn't care because he was a means to an end for her.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

..and not that it is any excuse but I haven't been perfect myself I never betrayed him however I was going thru a phase for a number of years where I did not feel romantic feelings for him and I would reject his advances/attempts at affection, etc. Plus he said that I never wanted to discuss sensitive topics when he would try and bring it up re: his frustations about our marriage, which is true if I have to be honest about it...so I do share some of the blame, not in what he did, but in how our marriage went south.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

HW, good for you!

Just be careful, really, really, really careful.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

ParachuteOn said:


> HW, good for you!
> 
> Just be careful, really, really, really careful.


Yes, absolutely! I think he realizes that she was using him, because everybody kept saying what are you thinking?? We all saw what her motivations were and he did not.

As well he would lose alot in terms of his family as well financially he would suffer greatly..we have a business together he would have to buy me out and it would cost him alot of money. He is 50, he is highly money responsible so to start again at age 50 would be a hassle. 

Like I said in the email to his friend, that I sent..I guess you arent' worth it honey!!! I told her to find another sucker!

No, I am fairly resourceful and smart and I think he has never realized that as much as he has in the last 7 months..and my gut intuition incredible..my sister told me she can't believe how much my intuition told me about this.


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## ParachuteOn (Apr 20, 2012)

highwood said:


> Yes, absolutely! I think he realizes that she was using him, because everybody kept saying what are you thinking?? We all saw what her motivations were and he did not.
> 
> As well he would lose alot in terms of his family as well financially he would suffer greatly..we have a business together he would have to buy me out and it would cost him alot of money. He is 50, he is highly money responsible so to start again at age 50 would be a hassle.
> 
> ...


And keep listening to that intuition, it will serve you well in the next few weeks. I'm just a little gun-shy on this one. I mean, he may have hit rock bottom, and you may have triumphed over the OW......but it all happened pretty fast, he still gets away with everything kind of, and the cost?? A couple of MC sessions and some more "b!tching"? Well worth it if she bailed because of too much heat.

Ask yourself, where would all this be if she wanted to fight for him? Just asking so you don't go back (emotionally) too soon.


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## Poppy (Mar 14, 2012)

I am so sorry. Your intuition has paid off...painfully, but it has. I desperately need help too and have to jump in here and hope I get help..if I post separately he might see it. We went to a sex therapist Friday night and it was great. We then went back yesterday separately. I thought she was going to tell me there was hope, but instead she said the odds were stacked against me...his job and his pattern of behaviour. She asked me why I was still with him and where was my line in the sand. What else would he have to do for me to say enough? She said she did not believe for one moment that he did not pay for sex again in Singapore after I left with the kids and that I need to get tested for HIV again. I am freaking out. I asked him this when I got home. Last night would have been the first night I was covered with contraception on the pill and we would not have had to use condoms....he did not go near me!! Not strange to you, but we have been having sex every day for 4 months. Is our therapist right? I told her he had been having sex with prostitutes from the Phillippines, Thailand and Indonesia and she flipped....said it would be better if I said he had spent 30,000 dollars last year on high end prostitutes in NY..at least they have health care and rules. Today I have felt close to tears all day....do I continue with R or just say enough is enough...regardless of how sorry he is now? Please, please help me.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

ParachuteOn said:


> And keep listening to that intuition, it will serve you well in the next few weeks. I'm just a little gun-shy on this one. I mean, he may have hit rock bottom, and you may have triumphed over the OW......but it all happened pretty fast, he still gets away with everything kind of, and the cost?? A couple of MC sessions and some more "b!tching"? Well worth it if she bailed because of too much heat.
> 
> Ask yourself, where would all this be if she wanted to fight for him? Just asking so you don't go back (emotionally) too soon.


For her to fight for him would be nearly impossible she lives across the ocean in Asia...not much she can do from that location to fight for him. I doubt she will...she is gutless and I am sure knows from my emails to her that I am not wallflower and would come after her hard. I think she realizes from my emails and his today that he will not leave his marriage for her...plus the last time they saw each other was in August 2011..I mean sure you can email, etc. but what kind of a relationship is that???


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Poppy said:


> I am so sorry. Your intuition has paid off...painfully, but it has. I desperately need help too and have to jump in here and hope I get help..if I post separately he might see it. We went to a sex therapist Friday night and it was great. We then went back yesterday separately. I thought she was going to tell me there was hope, but instead she said the odds were stacked against me...his job and his pattern of behaviour. She asked me why I was still with him and where was my line in the sand. What else would he have to do for me to say enough? She said she did not believe for one moment that he did not pay for sex again in Singapore after I left with the kids and that I need to get tested for HIV again. I am freaking out. I asked him this when I got home. Last night would have been the first night I was covered with contraception on the pill and we would not have had to use condoms....he did not go near me!! Not strange to you, but we have been having sex every day for 4 months. Is our therapist right? I told her he had been having sex with prostitutes from the Phillippines, Thailand and Indonesia and she flipped....said it would be better if I said he had spent 30,000 dollars last year on high end prostitutes in NY..at least they have health care and rules. Today I have felt close to tears all day....do I continue with R or just say enough is enough...regardless of how sorry he is now? Please, please help me.


Highwood, all my fingers are crossed for you that he has hit rock bottom. I was fortunate in that my DD#2 my WS's contact with the AP had started to lessen and peter out on its own, so instituting NC was night and day this time. I pray your MC is educated in infidelity--our first MC after DD#1 wasn't and I credit them with some of the fault for the length of this affair as a result (that and my ignorance about how addcitive it all is).

Sorry if I segue to Poppy--

Poppy, have been hoping to hear from you. I am sorry your MC freaked out so much. Is this the sex addiction therapist?

You have to see how she views this--the behavior is appalling, life-threatening, risky, and profoundly selfish. It sounds like he lied yet again about another major issue? If that is the case you need to strongly ponder it being a deal breaker. If he was willing to risk your life over this, he is just not worth it--he is indeed too broken to be retrieved. Your children need you, think of them. I am so sorry to hear this turn of events.


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