# my wife wants to meet up with an old boyfriend



## carguy129

Hello all. This is my first post. I was googling what I wrote in my subject line and came across this site. After reading on the site for a few hours I decided I definitely need to post immediately. Here is my situtation:
My wife and I have been married for 15 years - both of ours first marriage. We have children. My wife was travelling with her best friend (female) 6 or 7 years before we met for a period of about 2 months. While travelling, overseas she met a guy. They hung out together for about a week. She slept with him twice. He lives in a different country so they went their seperate ways but have kept in touch through face book and she made me aware of this years ago. He emails her several times each year and always on her birthday. He even sent her a teddy bear once (this was about 10 years ago). He is married as well 
My wife is going on a week long business trip next week on the other side of the country. This guy is now working in the same country as us so my wife said she is going to meet up with him for coffee. He will have to make a 5 hour drive or 90 minute flight to be in the city where her conference is or as he said, "make sure he plans a busines trip there" so he can see her. 
I am not happy about my wife keeping in touch with him at all and when she said she was going to meet up with him I was floored. I told her it was inappropriate because he is not just a friend - they had sex - twice. She said it probably would not have happened if she had not had a bit to drink. I said, what about the second time?
I can't forbid her to go but if she sees him despite my objections, this will be very damaging to our relationship. I deperately need feed back from men and women. I have tried to tell the story impartially as I can.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore

carguy129 said:


> Hello all. This is my first post. I was googling what I wrote in my subject line and came across this site. After reading on the site for a few hours I decided I definitely need to post immediately. Here is my situtation:
> My wife and I have been married for 15 years - both of ours first marriage. We have children. My wife was travelling with her best friend (female) 6 or 7 years before we met for a period of about 2 months. While travelling, overseas she met a guy. They hung out together for about a week. She slept with him twice. He lives in a different country so they went their seperate ways but have kept in touch through face book and she made me aware of this years ago. He emails her several times each year and always on her birthday. He even sent her a teddy bear once (this was about 10 years ago). He is married as well
> My wife is going on a week long business trip next week on the other side of the country. This guy is now working in the same country as us so my wife said she is going to meet up with him for coffee. He will have to make a 5 hour drive or 90 minute flight to be in the city where her conference is or as he said, "make sure he plans a busines trip there" so he can see her.
> I am not happy about my wife keeping in touch with him at all and when she said she was going to meet up with him I was floored. I told her it was inappropriate because he is not just a friend - they had sex - twice. She said it probably would not have happened if she had not had a bit to drink. I said, what about the second time?
> I can't forbid her to go but if she sees him despite my objections, this will be very damaging to our relationship. I deperately need feed back from men and women. I have tried to tell the story impartially as I can.


Wow - that would definitely exceed my comfort level too. Question: How would your W react should the situation be reversed? It might be a good thing to calmly ask this... Second, do you have the means to travel with her (make it so if you can) and say you'll join her for her date and see how she reacts...

Just some random thoughts.


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## cons

This is no appropriate for a married woman....to meet up with a man alone...especially since they have been intimate in the past....

Absolutely not!!!

This "friendship" does not honor the marriage. It is purely selfish on her part to maintain this friendship. I would suggest looking at some of the articles on marriagebuilders.com that discuss "friends". 

I would definitely tell her that you would like her not to have contact with this man any more. Remember, just because you didn't make this request before, doesn't mean you don't have a right to do it now. Let her know that how disrespectful this contact is for you and your marriage. 

You're right, you can't respectfully forbid her to not meet up with him. But you can inform her that the consequences of meeting up with her results in damage to your marriage. 

By choosing her friend, she is disregarding you and your marriage.


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## 3Xnocharm

carguy129 said:


> *I can't forbid her to go but if she sees him despite my objections, this will be very damaging to our relationship*. I deperately need feed back from men and women. I have tried to tell the story impartially as I can.


Oh, but you can. This is not some lifetime, innocent, childhood friend. Tell her if she goes, that you will not be there when she gets back. Put your foot down NOW.


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## Hicks

Have you ever read the correspondence on facebook?

Ask her to see the emails back and forth "right now".

If you have anything other than willingness to show it to on the spot, then you have a problem.

I would personally offer her the choice between seeing him / continued correspondence and remaining married to me.


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## murphy5

I too would feel queezy about it. But in reality...you cant go around not trusting your wife of 15 years. If she wanted to shack up with a guy, there are probably many on your street she could do it to. I would say to sit her down and explain some ground rules...like public places only, no hotel rooms, not heavy drinking, etc. Explain you trust her, but don't want her to make a drunken mistake you will both regret. 

Unless, of course, you have had previous instances that make you doubt her fidelity. That would be a different situation for sure.


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## bandit.45

Tell her if she goes you will be going to see a lawyer....and mean it!

Ex lovers and ex boyfriends have no place in a marriage. You should never have put up with her corresponding with him. I bet if you dig in her phone and compute you will find out they are meeting for sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aspydad

What do you mean you can't ask her not to? You're her husband and you have every right. You let her keep in contact for whatever reason via Facebook. Fine as long as she is not emotionally involved - if emotional - NOT GOOD.

If it were me, I would have a sit down and let her know that married women don't go out of town to meet up with someone they have slept with in the past. You not comfortable and would like to her not to do this. If she insists - then you guys got bigger problems than this and if this were me - I would be ending things real quick.


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## harrybrown

Either she takes you with her, or she does not meet him.

She also needs to stop all contact if she wants to stay married to you.

How would she feel if the roles were reversed?


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Tell her if she goes you will be going to see a lawyer....and mean it!
> 
> Ex lovers and ex boyfriends have no ace in a marriage. You should never have put up with her Comtinuo go to correspond with him. I bet if you dig in her phone and compute you will find out they are meeting for sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ugh...
I'm a guy and if I am meeting a woman taking a 5 hour drive it is not for just coffee I can tell you that.:banghead:
Yes they are meeting for a fling (sex).
Now what is your line in the sand?


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## PBear

Of course, all she has to do now is say that she won't meet him... And then she's free to do what she likes on her trip. Not envious of your situation at all. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

See if you can contact his wife asap maybe she has a fb page leave her a message.


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## ReformedHubby

I won't advise you on what you should do but I will tell you what I would do. If my wife wanted to do something like that I would forbid it. If she still insisted on going I would start making my own plans with previous flames. Why not, she's doing it? 

I think your wife might need a reminder that you have value too.


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## NotLikeYou

carguy129-

Okay. Your first mistake was made years ago and is ongoing. You did not set a boundary on the relationship that, No, its not okay to keep in touch with people you had sex with before (that should apply to both of you, btw).

So having never set that boundary in place before, you find yourself about to be screwed by it.

And, yes, Mr. "I'll drive 5 hours to spend time with you" intends to bang your wife like she was a cheap saloon door. Your wife, for her part, is prepared to get slammed.

The fact that you were able to talk to your wife about it is a good sign. I would try that again, and emphasize how serious this is to you. Most people aren't very good at putting themselves in someone else's shoes, but try to make her see how it would feel if she were in your position-

Ask her how she would feel if "Trixie from High School / College" was keeping in touch with you and was looking forward to seeing you the next time you were headed to her state.

You're in a bad situation, because that boundary you didn't put in place? Your wife doesn't respect you enough to put in place on her own. Well, she would probably happily put it in place for YOU, but Rahoolio here is "just a friend she had hot monkey sex with when she was single and available." 

And here's the worst part- at this point, even if your wife agrees with you 100%, you're still going to get anxiety attacks and trust problems, because how will you REALLY know for sure that she isn't seeing him anyway and just placating you?

So I would try real hard to get her to delay the business trip. If you can't do that, your other options are to hire a PI to tail her, or decide to fly out and join her for the majority of the trip yourself.


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## tom67

You should have stopped it 10 years ago with the teddy bear but whats done is done.
Only way she should be able to go is if you go otherwise prepare for d.


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## carguy129

Wow - Thanks for all the quick responses. There is no way I can go. Kids at home so can't take the whole family. The flights would cost thousands. My wife has not really given me cause to distrust her but she does get adventurous when having some wine. She would not cheat on me with "someone on the street" as someone said but this is a different situation. She met this guy and was attracted enough to have sex with him. What makes this situation different is he is not an ex-boyfriend (which is why I purposely said old boyfriend). The met and then parted because they lived in places 1000's of miles apart. They did not break up so there was not an ending of the relationship by choice, only by circumstance.

I could hardly sleep last night thinking about this. 

Just one more thing - my wife is staying with her brother for part of this trip (he lives in the city where the conference is) and she said it is "only coffee". I do not know if she is seeing her old boyfriend while she is staying with her brother but even if that was the case, the old boyfriend will be coming in from out of town so he will have a hotel. Maybe he tells my wife - oh lets have a drink instead of coffee .... Horrible scenarios running through my head. Our marriage is not bad (but not great either) and all I can think is - I can't compete with the great memories of the week they spent together. What husband could?


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## tom67

What you have to do now is get in contact with his wife she may not know anything about this.
Think about it your marriage may not be that great because she has been in constant contact with him over the years.
Having 3 people in a marriage is not good.
Ask her if you stayed in contact with an old gf if she would have accepted that. Of course not.
You have some tough decisions ahead good luck.


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## bandit.45

Set your boundary and stick with it. If you tell her no, and she goes anyway, that is all you need to know about the true state of your marriage. 

A wife who loves and respects her husband would not want to cause him stress line this, and vice versa. You need to step up and demand respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

Hicks said:


> Have you ever read the correspondence on facebook?
> 
> Ask her to see the emails back and forth "right now".
> 
> If you have anything other than willingness to show it to on the spot, then you have a problem.
> 
> I would personally offer her the choice between seeing him / continued correspondence and remaining married to me.


This is my advice.

Inappropriate and disrespectful.

I would ask for history of communications as well. ON THE SPOT TOO. When you ask, do NOT give her time to go back/delete stuff. 

She either does it right there and then or the answer is "will not show you/share with you".....which most likely means that she is already emotionally cheating on you.

Heck just the fact that she is willing to meet him would be enough......


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## naiveonedave

I would consider printing out on-line divorce forms and leaving them out for her to "find". This is past believable.


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## HomeFrontDadAndMore

carguy129 said:


> Wow - Thanks for all the quick responses. There is no way I can go. Kids at home so can't take the whole family. The flights would cost thousands. My wife has not really given me cause to distrust her but she does get adventurous when having some wine. She would not cheat on me with "someone on the street" as someone said but this is a different situation. She met this guy and was attracted enough to have sex with him. What makes this situation different is he is not an ex-boyfriend (which is why I purposely said old boyfriend). The met and then parted because they lived in places 1000's of miles apart. They did not break up so there was not an ending of the relationship by choice, only by circumstance.
> 
> I could hardly sleep last night thinking about this.
> 
> Just one more thing - my wife is staying with her brother for part of this trip (he lives in the city where the conference is) and she said it is "only coffee". I do not know if she is seeing her old boyfriend while she is staying with her brother but even if that was the case, the old boyfriend will be coming in from out of town so he will have a hotel. Maybe he tells my wife - oh lets have a drink instead of coffee .... Horrible scenarios running through my head. Our marriage is not bad (but not great either) and all I can think is - I can't compete with the great memories of the week they spent together. What husband could?


Sounds like you're a lot like in "my place" with working W and family. One good thing is your wife is communicating to you about this where I don't believe mine would. The trick is to make certain you don't drive it all underground.

Like others have counseled, I'd quietly 'snoop' to verify. I think you have ample grounds. I'd also make it perfectly clear you're not comfortable with the meet up - especially with the history.

It seems to me the only course is to appeal to her on if the roles were reversed... if she doesn't give a real clear signal that she then understands that - reverse the roles and start communicating and visiting with your old female relationships.

My guess is that she's not telling you everything that has gone on in your married history.


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## turnera

carguy129 said:


> I can't forbid her to go but if she sees him despite my objections, this will be very damaging to our relationship. I deperately need feed back from men and women. I have tried to tell the story impartially as I can.


"Great, wife, turns out I can take vacation that week and the parents will watch the kids, so I'm going to make it a working vacation, just the two of us! I'm excited!"

Borrow the money from your folks for the ticket. Your marriage is at stake.

Or you could just set your boundary: "I do NOT accept you doing this and if you do, I will consider it proof that you are choosing your own wants over this marriage and I'll be seeing my lawyer."


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## Caribbean Man

The horse has already bolted from the stable.

You allowed or turned a blind eye to their quasi emotional affair for all of these years , thinking that it would make you look like a strong and secure husband, and now she has you in
" checkmate."

Can't really " blame " her because you allowed it.

When two people are married, it is always advisable that their opposite sex friends should at minimum be friends of the marriage.
In other words, secrets should be non existent.

Although she was forthright with you ,you had very loose or non existent marital boundaries.

I think that it's time to start talking about boundaries, dealbreakers and inappropriate behaviors.


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## tom67

It is possible she has met up with him before on a previous "business trip" isn't it?
Check her fb messages if you can.


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## happy as a clam

Can you install "Find my Phone" or GPS tracking on her phone? Or maybe it's time to hire a PI to follow her around out there for a few days.

The fact that she EVEN told you she was thinking about meeting him is good -- at least she wasn't hiding that from you.

But the fact that she still wants to go despite your repeated objections, that she is not willing to honor your wishes, is bad.

You're in a very bad spot.


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## happy as a clam

turnera said:


> "Great, wife, turns out I can take vacation that week and the parents will watch the kids, so I'm going to make it a working vacation, just the two of us! I'm excited!"
> 
> Borrow the money from your folks for the ticket. Your marriage is at stake.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## tom67

turnera said:


> "Great, wife, turns out I can take vacation that week and the parents will watch the kids, so I'm going to make it a working vacation, just the two of us! I'm excited!"
> 
> Borrow the money from your folks for the ticket. Your marriage is at stake.
> 
> Or you could just set your boundary: "I do NOT accept you doing this and if you do, I will consider it proof that you are choosing your own wants over this marriage and I'll be seeing my lawyer."


This^^^Tell her this with NO EMOTION keep it very matter of fact no crying or whining or begging.
Yes this should have stopped a long time ago and she probably lost some respect for you for allowing this but this is the new you who is not going to be disrespected anymore get it?


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## RoseAglow

Before I was married, I used to travel a lot for work. I was living with my now-husband. He had a hard time with the travel; he had been married before, and his then-wife cheated on him.

After the 2nd or 3rd business trip, he told me "I have no reason to doubt you. You've done nothing to make me think that you have or would cheat. But I am really uncomfortable with you traveling. I have no idea what you're doing or with whom."

So we sat down and worked out some ground rules or agreements.

After learning more from MB and TAM, I would never schedule a meeting with an ex unless it was one of the ex's who is also friends with my DH (we all hung out in the same group as teenagers and DH and I were even platonic roommates with others a good decade before he and I got together.) 

Knowing what I know now, I would not be comfortable in your shoes, either. If it were me, I would tell her that my STRONG preference would be for her to NOT MEET her ex. 

However, if she insisted, I would have a similar conversation as listed above, and would try to get her agreement on some rules.

The first and most obvious rule is, no sex with anyone who isn't YOU. 

After that rule, I would ask her to do the following so that you can be comfortable:

1. Txt before she left to meet with him.
2. No drinking, or minimal (as in, one glass of wine.)
3. Txt as soon the meet up is over.
4. Txt as soon as she is back in her hotel room (if the meeting is during the day and she will have other things to do between their meeting and the end of the business day.)

BTW not specifically mentioned above, but one of my 'rules for travel' is to spend the evenings in the hotel room. This means that if I want a drink, I pick it up from the bar and carry it to my room. If I want to sight-see, I get back early. If I wanted to go see something special- if I could go see a concert or a movie- my DH knew all about it. I made sure to bring home a ticket (although he never asked to see one.) 


If she has really friend-zoned this guy, she shouldn't be too upset at those requests, if it's couched as something she is doing to make you feel better.

Pre-TAM/MB, I would not have thought twice about meeting up with an old friend/ex for coffee, if that ex were truly friend-zoned (which all of them have been.) So her thought to do so doesn't surprise me. 

I am also not too surprised at the idea of arranging schedules to meet up, if she is a frequent traveler. It's a fairly common practice. My company actually has a website where you can find out who also has visits scheduled in the same place/same time, so you can meet up if you want. Traveling can be very lonely, it is really lovely to meet up with a friend and have dinner, check out the city, etc. I have two male friends in particular who I'd check in with to see if they were going to be in the same area; my DH knows both of them personally. One of them was just in our nearest city, so he and I and my DH all met up for dinner. 

If the guy does NOT have business planned at the meet-up location, I would be very, very worried. That is a totally different situation. In this case, I would try to arrange it so that you can travel with her. See if the grandparents can watch the kids or something.


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## Mostlycontent

3Xnocharm said:


> Oh, but you can. This is not some lifetime, innocent, childhood friend. Tell her if she goes, that you will not be there when she gets back. Put your foot down NOW.


I totally agree with you. This kind of stuff just pi$$es me off to my core. I had a similar situation when I was engaged and then newly married to my W many years ago.

She was close friends with a guy that she had dated for a year and a half but they were just friends at that point. This was long before TAM existed, or the internet for that matter, but I told her it was inappropriate for her to maintain contact with him. You don't ever get to be "pretend single". At least not if you want to be with me.

Had they always been just friends, I may have felt differently but that wasn't the case. Women seem to have a blind spot, or as I call it, a "stupid" spot in their head about this kind of thing. They just don't really get how guys are and think something is innocent when it's far from that.

At any rate, we had a number of fights over it and I told her that I was so gone if she contacted him again and I truly meant it. I was seething that she would even request it considering the angst it caused me. I viewed it as a direct assault on my mental and emotional well being and I responded accordingly.

She finally understood my position as the years went by the mere mention of this scenario still angers me to no end.


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## IrishGirlVA

Tell her to come here and tell us her version of the story. She'll get the same responses you have been getting from us. I can't believe there would be one reasonable person who would think this was OK. 

Even if she has no interest in him sexually, the fact that you are uncomfortable with them meeting "for coffee" should trump all. 

I like the idea of the phone tracker. I would do that since you are likely unable to go on the trip.


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## carguy129

I can't go on the trip with her. I am self employed and can't be away for a week especially while the kids are still in school. Besides, that just avoids this occurrence. Perhaps they meet again at some future time that she does not tell me about. We need to address this now. I do like the idea of saying " I need to see your facebook account now and see what the actual correspondence was/is but that won't prove anything if she just deleted the correspondence previously. More info - I am very attracted to my wife wife. I still think she is hot. She is self conscious of her stomach because she kept a little weight on after our 2nd child but she still has a great body (an ass the drive me crazy) and is tall and striking. However, I am like other men who complain about the lack of sex, we only do it about 2 to 3 times per month. I would have sex with her everyday if I could - she completely turns me on.

We have only had one conversation about her going for coffee with old bf. She sprung it on me about 4 or 5 days ago (Thurs I think - today is Monday). She was still not sure if he could make it because he was still quite some distance away. She leaves tomorrow.


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## bandit.45

Why can't you call her now. Why are you futzing around with us? You better call her and lay down your boundary now before she leaves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mostlycontent

IrishGirlVA said:


> Tell her to come here and tell us her version of the story. She'll get the same responses you have been getting from us. I can't believe there would be one reasonable person who would think this was OK.
> 
> Even if she has no interest in him sexually, the fact that you are uncomfortable with them meeting "for coffee" should trump all.
> 
> I like the idea of the phone tracker. I would do that since you are likely unable to go on the trip.



And that's really the point. My W felt similarly about her Ex and said I had nothing to worry about. Okay, I believe you but what about his motives and intentions? If one person has impure motives and then a few drinks are introduced, something bad can happen.

I don't think it's ever a good idea to to put one's self in inappropriate situations no matter how innocent you believe it to be. Not even the hint of impropriety should be tolerated.


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## naiveonedave

I would read MMSLP, independent of this situation. 2x month is way too little, imo. That is not healthy for your relationship. The book might help. It will also help you establish better boundaries for this type of thing.

I really think you will make a mistake if you don't lay down the law and do some snooping. This has the potential to end your marriage based on what already happened, not what happens this week and next.


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## ConanHub

tom67 said:


> You should have stopped it 10 years ago with the teddy bear but whats done is done.
> Only way she should be able to go is if you go otherwise prepare for d.


I would have sent the Teddy bear back with head arms and legs detached and a knife through it's heart!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

The fact she sprung this on you last minute is a huge red flag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mostlycontent

naiveonedave said:


> I would read MMSLP, independent of this situation. 2x month is way too little, imo. That is not healthy for your relationship. The book might help. It will also help you establish better boundaries for this type of thing.
> 
> I really think you will make a mistake if you don't lay down the law and do some snooping. This has the potential to end your marriage based on what already happened, not what happens this week and next.


Yeah, the sex two or three times a month is concerning. Most anyone who is healthy will want sex more frequently than that. Unless she has some hormonal issues or emotional issues, I might be concerned that she isn't as attracted to you as you'd like.

I get that people have busy lives and all but this seems a bit over the top.


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## Hope1964

If you can't go, contact his wife and see if SHE can go.

Your wife MUST cease all contact with this guy. You also need to start snooping on her facebook and emails and phone to make sure she doesn't have anything else going on.

Read this book

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## carguy129

IrishGirlVA said:


> Tell her to come here and tell us her version of the story. She'll get the same responses you have been getting from us. I can't believe there would be one reasonable person who would think this was OK.
> 
> Even if she has no interest in him sexually, the fact that you are uncomfortable with them meeting "for coffee" should trump all.
> 
> I like the idea of the phone tracker. I would do that since you are likely unable to go on the trip.


I think I may show her this whole thing tonight. I tried to tell her that men and women can not be "just friends". Not when they meet in their twenties and especially not when they got naked together and ****ed each other!!! The more I type the madder I get. As one poster said : "he is not driving 5 hours just for coffee". I agree - not unless he is gay.


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## seasalt

I can never understand how one spouse cannot tell another how their behavior would make them feel. If you can clearly enunciate your distaste for her intended actions and the conduct of her relationship with her former lover and she brushes them off she really doesn't love you. How could she if she doesn't or won't respect your feelings.

Do it now.

Good luck,

Seasalt


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## turnera

Either she is lying to you or she is lying to herself. No man will go to all that trouble for a cup of coffee: he expects to be 'paid' for coming.

Show this to her and then say 'This is my boundary. You should be willing to accept my boundary on an opposite sex meetup just as I would accept one of yours concerning other women. If you can't, then we need to discuss why we are even married.'

SHE NEEDS TO SEE STRENGTH FROM YOU on this. Women are attracted to strong men, whether we want to acknowledge it or not. Currently, HE IS WINNING; HE is being the strong one in that he is pursuing her; YOU are being the beta male in considering allowing it to happen. That immediately makes her like him more and you less.


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## lifeistooshort

IrishGirlVA said:


> Tell her to come here and tell us her version of the story. She'll get the same responses you have been getting from us. I can't believe there would be one reasonable person who would think this was OK.
> 
> Even if she has no interest in him sexually, the fact that you are uncomfortable with them meeting "for coffee" should trump all.
> 
> I like the idea of the phone tracker. I would do that since you are likely unable to go on the trip.



ESPECIALLY if she has no interest in him sexually, why would meeting him for coffee be worth upsetting her husband? This is a big fat no go, and if my hb pulled something like this there would be h$ll to pay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

turnera said:


> Either she is lying to you or she is lying to herself. No man will go to all that trouble for a cup of coffee: he expects to be 'paid' for coming.
> 
> Show this to her and then say 'This is my boundary. You should be willing to accept my boundary on an opposite sex meetup just as I would accept one of yours concerning other women. If you can't, then we need to discuss why we are even married.'
> 
> SHE NEEDS TO SEE STRENGTH FROM YOU on this. Women are attracted to strong men, whether we want to acknowledge it or not. Currently, HE IS WINNING; HE is being the strong one in that he is pursuing her; YOU are being the beta male in considering allowing it to happen. That immediately makes her like him more and you less.


:iagree:
That's why when you have the talk no emotion and straight to the point.


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## Thundarr

carguy129 said:


> I can't forbid her to go but if she sees him despite my objections, this will be very damaging to our relationship. I deperately need feed back from men and women. I have tried to tell the story impartially as I can.


No you can't physically force her to do anything but you can and should set boundaries and then communicate them. You really shouldn't have to on this because it's obviously inappropriate; even more so since she knows you're uncomfortable with it. But to be more specific, you should have already taken a stand on her boundaries with this guy. This problem didn't materialize out of thin air. You've let it breath.

If it were me ( assuming I let it get to this point which I wouldn't ), I'd make sure she knows that this would mean she's not respecting the marriage and your not going to be a part of it.


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## michzz

carguy129 said:


> *I can't forbid her to go but if she sees him despite my objections, this will be very damaging to our relationship. * I deperately need feed back from men and women. I have tried to tell the story impartially as I can.


Darn right you can forbid her to see him. Let her know the consequences are the end of your marriage.

Yo can't physically restrain her. But you sure as h$ll can set the boundaries.

She should have no contact with this man. It is an ongoing emotional (at least) affair.

It will go physical if it hasn't already without your strong objection and she respecting you.


----------



## Malaise

Instead of posting this to us you should be burning up the phone with her.

Tell her how you feel and don't mince words.


----------



## Hicks

No way a man drives 5 hours for coffee.
Ask to see her correspondence asap. You have nothign to lose. It's a reasonable request. As is NO CONTACT WITH FORMER **** BUDDIES.


----------



## DoF

carguy129 said:


> I can't go on the trip with her. I am self employed and can't be away for a week especially while the kids are still in school. Besides, that just avoids this occurrence. Perhaps they meet again at some future time that she does not tell me about. We need to address this now. I do like the idea of saying " I need to see your facebook account now and see what the actual correspondence was/is but that won't prove anything if she just deleted the correspondence previously. More info - I am very attracted to my wife wife. I still think she is hot. She is self conscious of her stomach because she kept a little weight on after our 2nd child but she still has a great body (an ass the drive me crazy) and is tall and striking. However, I am like other men who complain about the lack of sex, we only do it about* 2 to 3 times per month*. I would have sex with her everyday if I could - she completely turns me on.
> 
> We have only had one conversation about her going for coffee with old bf. She sprung it on me about 4 or 5 days ago (Thurs I think - today is Monday). She was still not sure if he could make it because he was still quite some distance away. She leaves tomorrow.


In Bold is your PRIMARY issue that both you and her should've been working on ALL ALONG.

What you are dealing with NOW, is simply the consequence of NOT dealing with that issue.

And it's just a matter of time before you will be on her boat (looking elsewhere for sex cause you ain't getting it at home).


----------



## lifeistooshort

ReformedHubby said:


> I won't advise you on what you should do but I will tell you what I would do. If my wife wanted to do something like that I would forbid it. If she still insisted on going I would start making my own plans with previous flames. Why not, she's doing it?
> 
> I think your wife might need a reminder that you have value too.



Ohhh, you and I think alike here. I would do exactly the same thing for the same reasons; I think power balances of this nature are extremely important. My hb knows very well that what's good for you is also good for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF

Hicks said:


> No way a man drives 5 hours for coffee.
> Ask to see her correspondence asap. You have nothign to lose. It's a reasonable request. As is NO CONTACT WITH FORMER **** BUDDIES.


Yep, this should've been a boundary from day 1.

Your wife seems a bit "off" to think this is ok. I mean I appreciate her honesty and all but the actual act of meeting him is "out of her mind".

Sorry

Ask her for all email/facebook/phone records and EXPECT IT RIGHT THERE AND THEN.

No records/hand over phone = she has been cheating all along.....maybe not physically, but CERTAINLY emotionally.

I would also assume she had inappropriate conversations with him (sexual) as well.

See for yourself....

This guy has only ONE goal when it comes to meeting her. AS a women, she should know VERY well what that goal is.......but it's CERTAINLY not "friendship".


----------



## tryingtobebetter

If I was in your position I would say I was not comfortable with her meeting up with him. If she loves you she will accept that and cancel the assignation.

Good luck.


----------



## PBear

Again... She's going to do as she likes on this trip, regardless of what she tells him. The only difference is she'll stop telling the OP about her social activities. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mostlycontent

DoF said:


> Yep, this should've been a boundary from day 1.
> 
> Your wife seems a bit "off" to think this is ok. I mean I appreciate her honesty and all but the actual act of meeting him is "out of her mind".
> 
> Sorry
> 
> Ask her for all email/facebook/phone records and EXPECT IT RIGHT THERE AND THEN.
> 
> No records/hand over phone = she has been cheating all along.....maybe not physically, but CERTAINLY emotionally.
> 
> I would also assume she had inappropriate conversations with him (sexual) as well.
> 
> See for yourself....
> 
> This guy has only ONE goal when it comes to meeting her. AS a women, she should know VERY well what that goal is.......but it's CERTAINLY not "friendship".


Your post is right on the money but the part in blue is what I question. Of course she should know better but apparently women have a blind spot, or again as I call it, a "stupid" spot in their brain when it comes to these things. 

She may only wish to have coffee and catch up with him. that seems harmless enough but what are his intentions? No guy I know would drive 5 hours without the hope of sex. Us guys get that but some women don't. I find that inexplicable.


----------



## naiveonedave

OP - you need to hack her FB account from your home computer or do some other sluething before you confront tonight. I don't think you will get the real story and then she will bury what you don't already know. Especially if this is a EA or a PA already.


----------



## michzz

Mostlycontent said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Your post is right on the money but the part in blue is what I question. *Of course she should know better but apparently women have a blind spot, or again as I call it, a "stupid" spot in their brain when it comes to these things. *
> 
> She may only wish to have coffee and catch up with him. that seems harmless enough but what are his intentions? No guy I know would drive 5 hours without the hope of sex. Us guys get that but some women don't. I find that inexplicable.


No, they are not blind to it, they WANT YOU to believe that. Big difference!


----------



## unbelievable

Your wife knows full well what this guy wants and she probably wants the same. They are sex partners. Some time has gone by but that is who they are. They had little time to be anything else. The guy used to nail your old lady like a loose board and he must have been quite proficient at it. They only actually spent 1 week of their lives with each other and they are still communicating all these years later (in spite of both being married). 
I'd just put it to her plainly. She needs to get her mind, her heart, and her body all in the same place. If part of her can't give up Mr. One Week she needs to take the rest of her to him. Not interested in being married to 80% of a woman or even 98% of one. She's either mine or she's history. I don't go digging up old sex partners and the only reason I would is if I intended to knock off some more tail. There never has been any good reason for her to text, email, or chat with another guy and especially not one she'd been intimate with. She'd come unglued if you drove six hours to have "coffee" with one of your former conquests and if she wouldn't come unglued, you're not someone she particularly treasures.


----------



## Decorum

Absolutely not!
I am guessing that your wife has held a secret fantasy about him for years, she is bored, life may be a little stale ATM. 

This will spark up, probably go physical pretty quickly. 

He has become an enemy of your marriage, she should have NOTHING further to do with him. 

Your only option will be to file on her if she does, make sure you mean it.

I have seen wives choose the friend over the husband because they represent excitement and fantasy love.

*You will lose the marriage if you let them meet anyway.*

She may have already been disconnecting from you, in which case she may threaten to leave you, don't give in.

Better that she does than she cheat on you!!!!!

I am so sorry.


----------



## bandit.45

unbelievable said:


> Your wife knows full well what this guy wants and she probably wants the same. They are sex partners. Some time has gone by but that is who they are. They had little time to be anything else. The guy used to nail your old lady like a loose board and he must have been quite proficient at it. They only actually spent 1 week of their lives with each other and they are still communicating all these years later (in spite of both being married).
> I'd just put it to her plainly. She needs to get her mind, her heart, and her body all in the same place. If part of her can't give up Mr. One Week she needs to take the rest of her to him. Not interested in being married to 80% of a woman or even 98% of one. She's either mine or she's history. I don't go digging up old sex partners and the only reason I would is if I intended to knock off some more tail. There never has been any good reason for her to text, email, or chat with another guy and especially not one she'd been intimate with. She'd come unglued if you drove six hours to have "coffee" with one of your former conquests and if she wouldn't come unglued, you're not someone she particularly treasures.


:iagree::iagree::iagree: to the letter.....


----------



## bandit.45

If she threatens to leave then say "OK" and start packing her bags for her. Get out the garbage bags and start throwing her sh!t in them.


----------



## treyvion

Mostlycontent said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Your post is right on the money but the part in blue is what I question. Of course she should know better but apparently women have a blind spot, or again as I call it, a "stupid" spot in their brain when it comes to these things.
> 
> She may only wish to have coffee and catch up with him. that seems harmless enough but what are his intentions? No guy I know would drive 5 hours without the hope of sex. Us guys get that but some women don't. I find that inexplicable.


Yeah, no guy is definately driving 5 hrs to an ATTACHED woman unless there was a strong likelihood for sexual relations.


----------



## Malaise

treyvion said:


> Yeah, no guy is definately driving 5 hrs to an ATTACHED woman unless there was a strong likelihood for sexual relations.


As in, he knows it's a sure thing.


----------



## turnera

michzz said:


> No, they are not blind to it, they WANT YOU to believe that. Big difference!


Not always true. I've known a few women who weren't used to being around men and they clearly had no idea that every guy is a horndog and every woman is fair game to some men.


----------



## treyvion

Malaise said:


> As in, he knows it's a sure thing.


That's what I'm saying. He might do it once in a while to a new conquest to blow her mind, but to a married woman... He's going there because he KNOWS for a fact that it's going down.


----------



## turnera

carguy, I urge you to stop at the bookstore on the way home and get Married Man Sex Life Primer, and sit down tonight and read the whole thing before you take another step.


----------



## michzz

turnera said:


> Not always true. I've known a few women who weren't used to being around men and they clearly had no idea that every guy is a horndog and every woman is fair game to some men.


I think you misunderstand me.

I think the women know exactly THEIR OWN INTENTIONS.

And want their men to believe they do not have those intentions.


----------



## treyvion

michzz said:


> I think you misunderstand me.
> 
> I think the women know exactly THEIR OWN INTENTIONS.
> 
> And want their men to believe they do not have those intentions.


She KNOWS whatsup and she's excited about an old but reliable suitor to come to fill her needs.


----------



## RoseAglow

At TAM we see so many marriages fall apart due to affairs, and so often, the affairs start out exactly like you are describing: it was an old boyfriend/girlfriend; they met at a conference; they started on FB.

As soon as posters see the above, we all see the signs and start waving the flags. The thing is, usually the OP is posting because things are going south. You are a little different, you are posting because your wife honestly told you something and it makes you very uncomfortable. 

Are you really ready to end your marriage over this? If so, by all means throw down the gauntlet, make the ultimatum.

If not, consider collecting some more information and putting together a strategy.

In your shoes, my strategy would be something like this:

1. Snoop, to find out whether anything is going on that you are not aware of.

2. Talk with her to find out A. Are they still planning on meeting? If no, you might be starting a HUGE BATTLE in your marriage over a meeting that will never happen, with or without your interference. B. If yes, ask for the boundaries as noted in my prior post.

3. If you thoroughly snoop and find no evidence of anything going on, then look into some Marriage programs. I personally think Marriage Builders is a good program (Check out the book His Needs, Her Needs.) Others have had good luck with different programs. 

But the main thing is- tell her that you want to improve your marriage, and see if she will agree to read the books and commit with you. That way you can let the "marriage pros" discuss why it's a bad idea to see or speak with former lovers, and other boundary issues.

BTW if she does see him during this trip, I think you should do a LOT of quiet snooping afterwards, even if you don't uncover anything prior to the visit. Then you will know where things stand and can go from there.

Unlike most of the posters, I don't feel I have enough information to tell whether or not you really need to be sweating out this particular meeting. I can understand why you're VERY uncomfortable, and I would HATE it if I were in your situation. 

At the same time, this still could be two old friends putting together their travel to catch up. In the Non-TAM world, I think this happens fairly frequently, even between people who slept together once or twice. BTW going to bed once or twice does not usually equal a relationship, just a fling. It's probably not someone she had feelings for, it was just some fun. 

Also, a few FB emails over the years is not an emotional affair. I can't tell from your posts how often they email. I have a few "ex's"/ex FWB on my FB- my husband knows about them. We email, he knows this. I have gotten a cute "This card made me think of you" from one of them- it was a knitting card, and I am a knitter. I still would not bang that guy again if we were to meet, even if I was single. 

Sometimes TAM reminds me of the old slogan, 'Marijuana is the gateway drug'; while close 100% of all drug addicts started out with pot, not all pot users become addicts. 

Similarly, there have to be certain conditions to have an affair. Ex-lovers meeting up is a condition where an affair has a higher likelihood of happening. However, not all ex-lovers will reunite as lovers. I've done it several times as a single girl, met with old boyfriends in a bar to simply catch up. I wouldn't do it now, because I've read too much on MB an TAM, and it would hurt my husband, even if nothing happened between me and an ex. But I might have just rolled my eyes at my DH in my pre-TAM/MB days.

I totally, 100% agree with PBear that if you go on the attack with her, she is likely to just shut down communication with you. Right now, it sounds like she is open and transparent. 

If your snooping shows that she is, indeed, open and transparent with you, then you are in a good place. 

The fact is, if she travels, a GPS won't so you any good. You will only know where she is, not who she is with. If she is cheating on you while traveling, she is probably cheating in his or her hotel rooms. Chances are high that they are in the same hotel- it will be the one that caters to business people and are preferred vendors. Most of the big chains like Marriott and Hilton have hotels very close to each other, so if you happened to notice that the GPS says "Hilton" while her hotel is the Marriott, but they are only right across the street from each other, it won't be very helpful, it will only drive you insane.

As long as she is traveling and on her own, you can't be sure of her fidelity. A traveling career can be very, very hard on a marriage if there is not strong trust, good boundaries, and excellent communication and agreement.

There is no good option, other than building trust, and working out your own rules of engagement for travel. For us, we agreed that I would travel for a certain period of time until I was promoted to a home-based position. Even now, I travel a few times a year. We just work it out. Hopefully you can, too.

Good luck!


----------



## unbelievable

treyvion said:


> Yeah, no guy is definately driving 5 hrs to an ATTACHED woman unless there was a strong likelihood for sexual relations.


Unless I'm visiting my mom or my daughter, if I'm driving 5 hours to meet a female, I'm either riding her like a stolen mule or I have major felony warrants for her. Risk losing my marriage and kids over a woman I knew only a week? She'd have to have a joy buzzer surgically implanted in her vagina.


----------



## Theseus

3Xnocharm said:


> Tell her if she goes, that you will not be there when she gets back. Put your foot down NOW.


As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I already knew this would be most people's response on this forum. :slap:

Carguy, generally most people on this forum are opposed to opposite sex friendships period. 

HOWEVER, if your wife planned to cheat on you, then she wouldn't have told you about this guy. *As a matter of fact, she didn't have to tell you she was meeting him at all*. 

Either you trust your wife or you don't. It sounds like she is being upfront and honest with you, so I vote that you continue to trust her.

You don't have to trust *him*, and sure, maybe he's looking for sex, maybe not, but it takes two to cheat. One is not enough.


----------



## Malaise

Theseus said:


> As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I already knew this would be most people's response on this forum. :slap:
> 
> Carguy, generally most people on this forum are opposed to opposite sex friendships period.
> 
> HOWEVER, if your wife planned to cheat on you, then she wouldn't have told you about this guy. *As a matter of fact, she didn't have to tell you she was meeting him at all*.
> 
> Either you trust your wife or you don't. It sounds like she is being upfront and honest with you, so I vote that you continue to trust her.
> 
> You don't have to trust *him*, and sure, maybe he's looking for sex, maybe not, but it takes two to cheat. One is not enough.


And if she respects her husband she won't meet him.

If she does meet him, how much does she care about her husband's feelings?


----------



## Married but Happy

Your marriage doesn't sound all that good, so perhaps you have reason to be concerned. On the other hand, adding distrust to the current issues may only drive her further away - or maybe you'd be better off apart anyway? What is it that you're clinging to if the marriage isn't good? It seems that either you make a leap of faith and trust her, or outright ask her not to meet him - if she does anyway, you're relationship is probably dead anyway.


----------



## Mostlycontent

michzz said:


> I think you misunderstand me.
> 
> I think the women know exactly THEIR OWN INTENTIONS.
> 
> And want their men to believe they do not have those intentions.



Well, of course women know their own intentions but the rest of your statement is assuming that OP's wife is conniving and manipulative and that's a bit much to assume at this point.

I think many women are just too plain trusting and naive when it comes to men, even despite repeated evidence to the contrary.


----------



## bild-a-loco

As others have said, it is completely inappropriate for her to meet up with this guy - there's absolutely nothing good that can come from it. If you're uncomfortable with it, and have told her you're uncomfortable with it, and then she STILL wants to do it - that tells you she puts more value on meeting up with this innocent old friend than she does on her relationship with you - tell her you are not happy about it. That doesn't make you a bad guy, that doesn't make you mean or controlling, that just makes you a husband who loves his wife. 

What she does based on you telling her you're not comfortable with this will dictate your next move. I can't imagine there's a woman out there who wouldn't have a problem with her husband saying, "I'm gonna' fly halfway across the country and meet up with a former lover of mine, just to have dinner or something - nothing to worry about honey!" THAT would never happen! Good luck.


----------



## Thundarr

Theseus said:


> As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I already knew this would be most people's response on this forum. :slap:
> 
> Carguy, generally most people on this forum are opposed to opposite sex friendships period.


This is an ex lover who has tried to keep in tough with her for years. Most people outside of TAM wouldn't like this either. Taking jabs at TAMERS who disagree with you about OSFs won't help carguy. And I'm not an OSF basher.




Theseus said:


> HOWEVER, if your wife planned to cheat on you, then she wouldn't have told you about this guy. *As a matter of fact, she didn't have to tell you she was meeting him at all*.


Saying potential and current AP don't come up in seemingly innocent conversation is just factually incorrect and I hope carguy doesn't believe that. It's the very thing many unfaithful partners do to camouflage what they're doing.



Theseus said:


> Either you trust your wife or you don't. It sounds like she is being upfront and honest with you, so I vote that you continue to trust her.


He clearly doesn't like or trust the situation and told her this.


----------



## lancaster

Sounds like a bad idea and a selfish one too. I make it a point to never, ever stay in touch with old girlfriends. Especially as I am now married.

My wife on the other hand still has pics of her and her exes on FB. 

Your wife IMO is all kinds of wrong here.


----------



## treyvion

Malaise said:


> And if she respects her husband she won't meet him.
> 
> If she does meet him, how much does she care about her husband's feelings?


It's pretty simple. If this is a real "friend" he wouldn't mind meeting the wife with the husband present. There should nothing they have to do behind his back.


----------



## Q tip

Stop all this immediately
Go through Facebook, deleted, sent and archived msgs. Have they met after that sex session. Maybe they have... Phone msgs, pics... Emails. Everything.
Contact OMW, let her know Fvck Buddies are trying to meet.
Nip it now, she'll respect you when you stand up for "us" and protect your relationship.

Forbid the meeting. They've planned it already. OMG... Get in here and c0ck block. 

Walking all over you, mr nice guy.

Instantly demand NC forever. If she argues, you will know ALL you ever need to know.

Besides, you'll save him a frustrating 5 hour drive with no p*ssy at the end of that rainbow...


----------



## Clay2013

I would ask for access to all her stuff tonight. Emails, facebook and anything else you know of. If she hesitates then you don't need to go any further. Most states are no fault states so dragging out her cheating is really a waste of time. If she openly gives you access then your marriage has a chance and you can talk to her about it. if not then why waste another day with someone willing to have sex with someone else and tell you about it.


----------



## BradWesley

Theseus said:


> As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I already knew this would be most people's response on this forum. :slap:
> 
> Carguy, generally most people on this forum are opposed to opposite sex friendships period.
> 
> HOWEVER, if your wife planned to cheat on you, then she wouldn't have told you about this guy. *As a matter of fact, she didn't have to tell you she was meeting him at all*.
> 
> Either you trust your wife or you don't. It sounds like she is being upfront and honest with you, so I vote that you continue to trust her.
> 
> You don't have to trust *him*, and sure, maybe he's looking for sex, maybe not, but it takes two to cheat. One is not enough.


Totally agree.

This thread is the equivalent of turning on the lights in a room full of moths.


----------



## MattMatt

tom67 said:


> See if you can contact his wife asap maybe she has a fb page leave her a message.


:iagree:


----------



## MattMatt

carguy129 said:


> Wow - Thanks for all the quick responses. There is no way I can go. Kids at home so can't take the whole family. The flights would cost thousands. My wife has not really given me cause to distrust her but she does get adventurous when having some wine. She would not cheat on me with "someone on the street" as someone said but this is a different situation. She met this guy and was attracted enough to have sex with him. What makes this situation different is he is not an ex-boyfriend (which is why I purposely said old boyfriend). The met and then parted because they lived in places 1000's of miles apart. They did not break up so there was not an ending of the relationship by choice, only by circumstance.
> 
> I could hardly sleep last night thinking about this.
> 
> Just one more thing - my wife is staying with her brother for part of this trip (he lives in the city where the conference is) and she said it is "only coffee". I do not know if she is seeing her old boyfriend while she is staying with her brother but even if that was the case, the old boyfriend will be coming in from out of town so he will have a hotel. Maybe he tells my wife - oh lets have a drink instead of coffee .... Horrible scenarios running through my head. Our marriage is not bad (but not great either) and all I can think is - I can't compete with the great memories of the week they spent together. What husband could?


Or ""accidentally"" puts a double vodka in her coffee?


----------



## Q tip

Theseus said:


> As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I already knew this would be most people's response on this forum. :slap:
> 
> Carguy, generally most people on this forum are opposed to opposite sex friendships period.
> 
> HOWEVER, if your wife planned to cheat on you, then she wouldn't have told you about this guy. *As a matter of fact, she didn't have to tell you she was meeting him at all*.
> 
> Either you trust your wife or you don't. It sounds like she is being upfront and honest with you, so I vote that you continue to trust her.
> 
> You don't have to trust *him*, and sure, maybe he's looking for sex, maybe not, but it takes two to cheat. One is not enough.


DISAGREE If you read, it takes 1.5 to cheat and a glass of wine. That's good for two sessions. Her words.

Freely talks about it -- boundaries so weak, she does not see what's coming... Rewarding a 5 hour trip with wine and...?


----------



## MattMatt

Hope1964 said:


> If you can't go, contact his wife and see if SHE can go.
> 
> Your wife MUST cease all contact with this guy. You also need to start snooping on her facebook and emails and phone to make sure she doesn't have anything else going on.
> 
> Read this book
> 
> Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


OP, ask her for an introduction to his wife, 'just for coffee.'


----------



## Cynthia

The wife telling her husband about this man is not an indication that it is okay. It is an indication that she doesn't want her husband to feel uncomfortable or threatened by this man being around her.


----------



## Q tip

Innocent trip, seeing old Fvck buddy. Nothing can possibly go wrong. They've only kept in touch for years. Mr teddy bear in your face. He's gotta be laughing at this one. He may have quite a few diseases by now, so make that doctors appointment for blood tests before she leaves to make after she returns -- that is, if she wants to return.

Remember, they probably won't use protection, condoms. 

Ok that's the bad possibility. What are the chances of his celibacy and no alcohol after that nice coffee from the bar next door?

Now, what could possibly go wrong...?


----------



## Q tip

CynthiaDe said:


> The wife telling her husband about this man is not an indication that it is okay. It is an indication that she doesn't want her husband to feel uncomfortable or threatened by this man being around her.


Yep, just in case she has a bit of fun, things will be normal at home. I do this all the time with my SOs... Never a problem.


----------



## unbelievable

treyvion said:


> It's pretty simple. If this is a real "friend" he wouldn't mind meeting the wife with the husband present. There should nothing they have to do behind his back.


If this is a real "friend" he would want her to have a happy, healthy, stable marriage and family. He would refrain from doing anything that might produce even the slightest possibility of friction or mistrust between her and her husband. There is nothing to be gained from persisting in this fantasy for either of them, so they both need to grow up and knock it off. He doesn't need to meet her with or without her husband. He's got a wife. He knows how unthrilled he would be if she chatted up a guy who used to bone her. He knows it's not the kind of activity that would likely strengthen his own marriage, so why the hell would he do it to her's?


----------



## HomeFrontDadAndMore

BradWesley said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> This thread is the equivalent of turning on the lights in a room full of moths.


Theseus & BradW, you have a valid point. I'd hazard a guess that a large part of the members find this site through suspicions, actual evidence affair or simple complaints such that typical reaction is SO is guilty.

I came with suspicions but a very real belief my W wouldn't ever consider an EA/PA and received the same predominant opinions that it was possible. 

I stalled snooping out of guilt but kept getting crossed signals so I did: I found no solid evidence but certainly strange comments between her and a couple others - many that she would then later share with me but with the timeline, "story", etc. of the contact changed... 

I'm still on the side that my W is not in a EA/PA but certainly not sharing the full story on a lot of things - So, I'd consider the potential that OP's W could very well be trying the upfront approach to put OP precisely in the position of bad guy knowing full well he'll be without any evidence to the contrary.


----------



## Entropy3000

carguy129 said:


> Hello all. This is my first post. I was googling what I wrote in my subject line and came across this site. After reading on the site for a few hours I decided I definitely need to post immediately. Here is my situtation:
> My wife and I have been married for 15 years - both of ours first marriage. We have children. My wife was travelling with her best friend (female) 6 or 7 years before we met for a period of about 2 months. While travelling, overseas she met a guy. They hung out together for about a week. She slept with him twice. He lives in a different country so they went their seperate ways but have kept in touch through face book and she made me aware of this years ago. He emails her several times each year and always on her birthday. He even sent her a teddy bear once (this was about 10 years ago). He is married as well
> My wife is going on a week long business trip next week on the other side of the country. This guy is now working in the same country as us so my wife said she is going to meet up with him for coffee. He will have to make a 5 hour drive or 90 minute flight to be in the city where her conference is or as he said, "make sure he plans a busines trip there" so he can see her.
> I am not happy about my wife keeping in touch with him at all and when she said she was going to meet up with him I was floored. I told her it was inappropriate because he is not just a friend - they had sex - twice. She said it probably would not have happened if she had not had a bit to drink. I said, what about the second time?
> *I can't forbid her to go but if she sees him despite my objections, this will be very damaging to our relationship.* I deperately need feed back from men and women. I have tried to tell the story impartially as I can.


Hell no.

You can't stop her from going but you do not have to be there when she gets back. Tell her you find this very disrespectful and unacceptable. Let her choose. If he is more important then you know it is over. He is an ex lover. In fact the basis of their relationship is that they hooked up. No.

If was going to travel that far to see a woman I knew for that short a time and hooked up with ... she and I would be in bed within hours depending on logistics. We would have some drinks first. Maybe. maybe right into the sack and then drinks.


----------



## unbelievable

You can't stop her from being disrespectful and uncommitted but you can stop her from disrespecting and being uncommitted to you.


----------



## Machiavelli

carguy129 said:


> she still has a great body (an ass the drive me crazy) and is tall and striking. However, I am like other men who complain about the lack of sex, we only do it about 2 to 3 times per month. I would have sex with her everyday if I could - she completely turns me on.


Your wife is hotter than you are and she is not sexually attracted to you. Not good. Do you know of any women who _are_ sexually attracted to you?




carguy129 said:


> I think I may show her this whole thing tonight.


Why would you show her this thread? Because you don't have the authority within yourself to lay down the law? If you do show her this thread, you will damage your case and reduce whatever sexual attractiveness you retain.

How obese are you?


----------



## priorityone

I don't know. I know I would NOT be ok with this and it could be a deal breaker for me.

Is she reaching out perhaps? Trying to get you to tell her not to go and that is why she told you? You said your marriage isn't great. Maybe she wants you to fight for her? Perhaps she even subconsciously wants you to fight for her?

Either way, I have sort of been there so I get it. Good luck my friend.


----------



## Q tip

HomeFrontDadAndMore said:


> Theseus & BradW, you have a valid point. I'd hazard a guess that a large part of the members find this site through suspicions, actual evidence affair or simple complaints such that typical reaction is SO is guilty.
> 
> I came with suspicions but a very real belief my W wouldn't ever consider an EA/PA and received the same predominant opinions that it was possible.
> 
> I stalled snooping out of guilt but kept getting crossed signals so I did: I found no solid evidence but certainly strange comments between her and a couple others - many that she would then later share with me but with the timeline, "story", etc. of the contact changed...
> 
> I'm still on the side that my W is not in a EA/PA but certainly not sharing the full story on a lot of things - So, I'd consider the potential that OP's W could very well be trying the upfront approach to put OP precisely in the position of bad guy knowing full well he'll be without any evidence to the contrary.


Choice:
- Allow her to go and meet. They have a history and a happy one at that. Very pleasant.
- Allow her to go and forbid contact permanently. 
- Don't go and forbid contact permanently. 

No matter what, Contact OMW and cover history and planned meeting. She'll keep him home or he will deny. You'll have good info there too. He may be a player returning the the scene of previous conquests?


----------



## treyvion

Machiavelli said:


> Your wife is hotter than you are and she is not sexually attracted to you. Not good. Do you know of any women who _are_ sexually attracted to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you show her this thread? Because you don't have the authority within yourself to lay down the law? If you do show her this thread, you will damage your case and reduce whatever sexual attractiveness you retain.
> 
> How obese are you?


Listen to Mach. This is not something you can debate, complain about or get her to see.

All you can do is to try to help yourself. You will do this by managing your time, attention and using social proofing.

Sometimes there was nothing you could do, wife/gf figured for this minimal outlay on their behalf they can be taken care of and have comfort and safety. Sometimes they don't even stop whatever shinannigans they were doing before you.

You can let her realize this is not part of the deal in messing with you.


----------



## Q tip

No matter what. Read MMSLP immediately


----------



## Machiavelli

bandit.45 said:


> The fact she sprung this on you last minute is a huge red flag.


It's part of her rationalization hamster's way of dealing with the impending sexual liaison. She's telling you (kinda sorta) in advance of the act. If you don't object violently, to her it means you approve the liaison, which she feels you should.


----------



## Entropy3000

murphy5 said:


> I too would feel queezy about it. But in reality...you cant go around not trusting your wife of 15 years. If she wanted to shack up with a guy, there are probably many on your street she could do it to. I would say to sit her down and explain some ground rules...like public places only, no hotel rooms, not heavy drinking, etc. Explain you trust her, but don't want her to make a drunken mistake you will both regret.
> 
> Unless, of course, you have had previous instances that make you trust her fidelity. That would be a different situation for sure.


No.

Proper boundary setting involves definitie boundaries. The above are not boundaries. They are plausible denial. They say trust her and then they want you to control what you cannot control. These are not good boundaries. The only winning move is not to play. Otherwise it is just weak.

Marriage is about love and respect. Trust is a by-product. She is already breaking your trust by having this hook up. She needs to trust your feelings on this matter.

What she proposes is not trustworthy. He was a hookup for crying out loud. What do they talk about over coffee. How much he could make her come? How he loved seeing her ride him. Seriously. This is what they have in common. F'ing.


----------



## Entropy3000

PBear said:


> Of course, all she has to do now is say that she won't meet him... And then she's free to do what she likes on her trip. Not envious of your situation at all.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Still preferble than offering her cover. Than permission for an oooppsie.

But indeed so. That is why the biggest issue was the contact at all!!! They should not have been in contact.


----------



## Entropy3000

carguy129 said:


> Wow - Thanks for all the quick responses. There is no way I can go. Kids at home so can't take the whole family. The flights would cost thousands. My wife has not really given me cause to distrust her but she does get adventurous when having some wine. She would not cheat on me with "someone on the street" as someone said but this is a different situation. She met this guy and was attracted enough to have sex with him. What makes this situation different is he is not an ex-boyfriend (which is why I purposely said old boyfriend). The met and then parted because they lived in places 1000's of miles apart. They did not break up so there was not an ending of the relationship by choice, only by circumstance.
> 
> I could hardly sleep last night thinking about this.
> 
> Just one more thing - my wife is staying with her brother for part of this trip (he lives in the city where the conference is) and she said it is "only coffee". I do not know if she is seeing her old boyfriend while she is staying with her brother but even if that was the case, the old boyfriend will be coming in from out of town so he will have a hotel. Maybe he tells my wife - oh lets have a drink instead of coffee .... Horrible scenarios running through my head. Our marriage is not bad (but not great either) and all I can think is - I can't compete with the great memories of the week they spent together. What husband could?


This may not be an EA. What they have is a sexual relationship. So I agree. They may not soend much time catching up at all. They may just go for it and then talk.


----------



## Entropy3000

carguy129 said:


> I think I may show her this whole thing tonight. I tried to tell her that men and women can not be "just friends". Not when they meet in their twenties and especially not when they got naked together and ****ed each other!!! The more I type the madder I get. As one poster said : "he is not driving 5 hours just for coffee". I agree - not unless he is gay.


he was a hookup ... a sexual fling. That is who he is to her. Not a friend.


----------



## Malaise

As a hookup, not a friend, he only has loyalty to one part of her, not her as a person.


----------



## Entropy3000

Married but Happy said:


> Your marriage doesn't sound all that good, so perhaps you have reason to be concerned. On the other hand, adding distrust to the current issues may only drive her further away - or maybe you'd be better off apart anyway? What is it that you're clinging to if the marriage isn't good? It seems that either you make a leap of faith and trust her, or outright ask her not to meet him - if she does anyway, you're relationship is probably dead anyway.


Maybe she wants to know he even cares.


----------



## Q tip

Entropy3000 said:


> Maybe she wants to know he even cares.


Agree! Stand up like you have a pair and protect your marriage!


----------



## michzz

michzz said:


> I think you misunderstand me.
> 
> I think the women know exactly THEIR OWN INTENTIONS.
> 
> And want their men to believe they do not have those intentions.





Mostlycontent said:


> Well, of course women know their own intentions but the rest of your statement is assuming that OP's wife is conniving and manipulative and that's a bit much to assume at this point.
> 
> I think many women are just too plain trusting and naive when it comes to men, even despite repeated evidence to the contrary.


That's the thing, that naivete', if it exists, is limited to young girls, not grown married women.

I believe that a lot of women use that male prejudice to their advantage, presuming of their innocence.


----------



## treyvion

michzz said:


> That's the thing, that naivete', if it exists, is limited to young girls, not grown married women.
> 
> I believe that a lot of women use that male prejudice to their advantage, presuming of their innocence.


Exactly. She has a lot of "juice" for this old paramour.


----------



## GusPolinski

carguy129 said:


> I can't go on the trip with her. I am self employed and can't be away for a week especially while the kids are still in school. Besides, that just avoids this occurrence. Perhaps they meet again at some future time that she does not tell me about. We need to address this now. I do like the idea of saying " I need to see your facebook account now and see what the actual correspondence was/is but that won't prove anything if she just deleted the correspondence previously. More info - I am very attracted to my wife wife. I still think she is hot. She is self conscious of her stomach because she kept a little weight on after our 2nd child but she still has a great body (an ass the drive me crazy) and is tall and striking. However, I am like other men who complain about the lack of sex, we only do it about 2 to 3 times per month. I would have sex with her everyday if I could - she completely turns me on.
> 
> We have only had one conversation about her going for coffee with old bf. She sprung it on me about 4 or 5 days ago (Thurs I think - today is Monday). She was still not sure if he could make it because he was still quite some distance away. She leaves tomorrow.


Honestly it's really not enough to say just "No" to this. Instead, go w/ this...

"HELL NO, SH*T NO, F*CK NO. NO!!!"

If she does it anyway, make sure that she comes home to new door locks and packed bags waiting for her in the driveway.


----------



## Entropy3000

Hey babe, I am going back to Spain and meet up with Janine. You know the Aussie chick who I shacked up with for a few weeks in Europe. Just for some espresso. Yeah she will be in Greece but she is going to fly in just for this. In Barcelona. Yeah. We just want to catch up on old times.

Well I will have a hotel room. Not sure what her plans are. I guess she would stay in town for a bit while I am there. She might as well stay with me.

Yeah you know her. I met her in Palma De Mallorca at a great bar and dance club while in port there and she travelled to Nice and then Barcelona as we came into port. She spent the spring in Southern Europe. Had a fling with a sailor. Me. What do we have in common? I think she loved art. Yeah she loved nudes.


----------



## GusPolinski

Entropy3000 said:


> Hey babe, I am going back to Spain and meet up with Janine. You know the Aussie chick who I shacked up with for a couple of weeks in Spain. Just for some espresso. Yeah she will be in Greece but she is going to fly in just for coffee. In Barcelona. Yeah. We just want to catch up on old times.
> 
> Well I will have a hotel room. Not sure what her plans are. I guess she would stay in town for a bit while I am there. She might as well stay with me.


"...and hey, since you won't be there to do anything w/ my penis..."


----------



## Entropy3000

GusPolinski said:


> "...and hey, since you won't be there to do anything w/ my penis..."


It's my penis. My body. My wife cannot forbid me from sticking it in other women ... oh wait ... that just sounds stupid.


----------



## BradWesley

It's nice to see that the Beta Boys are out in force tonight!


----------



## Pinkpetal

"My wife and I have been married for 15 years - both of ours first marriage. We have children. My wife was travelling with her best friend (female) 6 or 7 years before we met for a period of about 2 months".

So your wife has been in contact with this guy for over 20 years now? Maybe it started as a hook up, but I think for your wife it has become an EA. She feels a connection with him that built from their intimacy and it has continued to build over the years. He gave her a teddy bear?? I'd bet money that secretly in her heart she has romanticised him with "what could've been". She feels she knows him well. 

But what has changed to make a 20 year online EA now want to cross paths physically? Proximity, now he is in your country? I think your wife is being very naive to believe that she knows this guy at all, or to think that she can maintain her footing at the tip of this very slippery slope.


----------



## Aspydad

Theseus said:


> As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I already knew this would be most people's response on this forum. :slap:
> 
> Carguy, generally most people on this forum are opposed to opposite sex friendships period.
> 
> HOWEVER, if your wife planned to cheat on you, then she wouldn't have told you about this guy. *As a matter of fact, she didn't have to tell you she was meeting him at all*.
> 
> Either you trust your wife or you don't. It sounds like she is being upfront and honest with you, so I vote that you continue to trust her.
> 
> You don't have to trust *him*, and sure, maybe he's looking for sex, maybe not, but it takes two to cheat. One is not enough.


Sorry but this post just does not hold true - at least for everyone. So I will respectfully have to disagree!

I for one (who loves has wife very much) had an emotional affair with my first love (five years ago). It started with us innocently connecting on Facebook (25 years after the breakup). I told my wife of this - showed my kids this women's picture - they commented right away how much she looked like my wife! and she does! Reason I even met my wife is that I saw her on campus and had to meet her because she looked just like my first love (this was one and a half years after the devastating break-up.) I have never told my wife this but it is true.

I had no intention of getting close to my first love via this Facebook connection – but we did get close. Found out she was not happy in her marriage – also found out that I was her first love as well – I never knew that. The reason we broke up is because we were semi long distance as she went to a different college 1.5 hours away but was in my home town – then during the summer – she went back to her home town which was four hours away – we did not make it as I thought she did not love me and I bailed – did the 180 big time – I was just 18 and falling in love scared the hell out of me (of course I did not know what love was back then – but, I do now.)

We conversed for two months until her husband decided he did not like us connected. I will tell you, that it did give me a high to communicate with her as the old feelings did come back to me. There is only one woman in the world that could temp me to cheat on my wife and this was / is the girl. I kept telling myself and her that I changed the feelings for her from the deep ones I had to more of a friendship – but, who was I kidding? If you ever heard the song “Lips of an Angel” I swear she had those lips – I just melted when I first kissed her and have never had a kiss like that again! While I love my wife more than I ever loved this woman – the love is completely different. 

Knowing what I know about myself – there is no way in hell I would let my wife go to meet with an old lover!! The guy could be telling himself that no way I would cheat on my wife - and your wife may be telling herself there is no way I will cheat on my husband – but, I tell you the high one gets from connecting with an old flame is very powerful. By the way – if they have been communicating for years – they do have emotional feelings for one another. Good luck with that.


----------



## Thundarr

BradWesley said:


> It's nice to see that the Beta Boys are out in force tonight!


If you start a beta/OSF thread, I'll participate. You can call me or whoever all kinds of names. But that's not really what OP came to TAM for though. He's a real person with a real problem.


----------



## BradWesley

Thundarr said:


> If you start a beta/OSF thread, I'll participate. You can call me or whoever all kinds of names. But that's not really what OP came to TAM for though. He's a real person with a real problem.


Relax dude.

It's only a comment about some of the others commenting!

Sheesh


----------



## Thundarr

BradWesley said:


> Relax dude.
> 
> It's only a comment about some of the others commenting!
> 
> Sheesh


Well then I'm relaxed Brad. I would just hate for the OP to get caught in some philosophical debate about OSF. I'm not saying I wouldn't like you opinion about his situation. It's just as valid as mine. I felt that your comment was meant to antagonize posters and not help OP is all.


----------



## treyvion

"well if you want to have boyfriends fine with me. All I ask is they pay some bills around here. Im not going to take care of somebody elses girlfriend. Plus im gonna do what I gotta do."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## murphy5

Machiavelli said:


> It's part of her rationalization hamster's way of dealing with the impending sexual liaison. She's telling you (kinda sorta) in advance of the act. If you don't object violently, to her it means you approve the liaison, which she feels you should.


THAT is an interesting take on it. I was wondering why a woman would possibly mention this contact if she was planning on shtooping the guy. I have to admit, that IS a possibility.

But, in that sense, all he has to do is have a serious talk about boundaries with her, and that hamster might go hide in its hole, instead of coming out to play


----------



## HomeFrontDadAndMore

machiavelli said:


> it's part of her rationalization hamster's way of dealing with the impending sexual liaison. She's telling you (kinda sorta) in advance of the act. If you don't object violently, to her it means you approve the liaison, which she feels you should.


dead right


----------



## nuclearnightmare

carguy

does she have any marital boundaries that she wants you to abide by? e.g. no internet porn, no lap dances or strip shows, no boys nights out to singles bars or nightclubs etc ??


----------



## The Middleman

When I found my wife just corresponding with an EX BF who lived close by, I went nuclear. Long story short, I told her that if she wanted to be in contact with an EX, I was going to file for divorce. No contact with an EX for any reason. You need to draw the same line in the sand. If she goes anyway, don't be there when she gets back.

Actually, I would insist that she not go at all; despite what you said, you can tell her not to go. As her husband you can ask that and if she values the marriage, she will understand. I don't think you can trust her under these circumstances.


----------



## sparkyjim

I think CM is right - he has allowed this relationship to exist because he wanted to be the "cool", with it husband. Now he has to live with his lack of action. He should have done something long ago. If he had he also might be having sex more than three times a month...


----------



## Catherine602

Tell her you are glad she feels comfortable meeting her old bf because you were dying to get in contact with Ellen, Angie and Laura. If fact, you found them on Facebook and have been sending messages back and forth. While she is away, you will see them. No sense waisting time. 

Give her a big kiss and thank her sincerely. Tell her she has made your day, actually made you a happy man because you can't wait to see them. Ask her when is she is going exactly


----------



## 6301

Your in a real bad situation friend and the only thing I can tell you is this.

If she's up to no good and meets up with this guy and it goes farther than a cup of coffee and in to something intimate, no doubt will notice some subtle changes in her when she gets back. You've been married to her long enough to know and you should be able to tell.

If need be, check what she's taking with her on her trip and if you need to be nosy then check her underwear in her dirty clothes bag and see if there's anything on them that points to her being unfaithful.

If you notice the changes then tell her that you know something is wrong and set up a polygraph if you feel she's not being truthful. If she refuses then you know she has something to hide. 

You opened the bottle and the genie got out years ago and now you can't reverse it. This thing with the guy still keeping in touch shouldn't have been allowed. If the roles were reversed she would feel the same way.


----------



## tom67

6301 said:


> Your in a real bad situation friend and the only thing I can tell you is this.
> 
> If she's up to no good and meets up with this guy and it goes farther than a cup of coffee and in to something intimate, no doubt will notice some subtle changes in her when she gets back. You've been married to her long enough to know and you should be able to tell.
> 
> If need be, check what she's taking with her on her trip and if you need to be nosy then check her underwear in her dirty clothes bag and see if there's anything on them that points to her being unfaithful.
> 
> If you notice the changes then tell her that you know something is wrong and set up a polygraph if you feel she's not being truthful. If she refuses then you know she has something to hide.
> 
> You opened the bottle and the genie got out years ago and now you can't reverse it. This thing with the guy still keeping in touch shouldn't have been allowed. If the roles were reversed she would feel the same way.


:iagree::iagree:
Exactly demand respect.


----------



## darklilly23

Hi there,

I am sorry you are going through this,
I went through something similar.

"Just a friend." (That my ExH slept with)


The extremely kind people here will be a lifeline for you and keep you sane.

You are sane to feel the way you do, it's your gut telling you to be on red alert.
I wish I had trusted my gut sooner. 

Keep coming to TAM


----------



## Catherine602

I think he should be vigilant but also smart. She has no fear that he will take the script from her and get in contact with his old gf. Why is she so sure of him. That's his fault. He is so busy chasing her that he not standing still and thinking. He needs to be laser sharp and say no to this meeting. 

However, he should make it clear that he had not thought of meeting up with some his old flame but this situation makes him think about them all of the time now. I think he should look up a few of them while he and the wife are sitting together. Tell her all about and what they are doing. He should not hide what he is doing.


----------



## kilgore

Catherine602 said:


> I think he should be vigilant but also smart. She has no fear that he will take the script from her and get in contact with his old gf. Why is she so sure of him. That's his fault. He is so busy chasing her that he not standing still and thinking. He needs to be laser sharp and say no to this meeting.
> 
> However, he should make it clear that he had not thought of meeting up with some his old flame but this situation makes him think about them all of the time now. I think he should look up a few of them while he and the wife are sitting together. Tell her all about and what they are doing. He should not hide what he is doing.


that seems like game playing that will only escalate things. why not just say he doesn't like it?


----------



## Bobby5000

I think you need to talk in two ways. 

1. First, you may have some serious problems in your marriage. She is willing to do something which will in many cases end a marriage. Quite incredibly, far from profusely apologizing, she has indicated she will be seeing him again. Since most adulterors lie and conceal, her willingness to bring this out in the open may be a cry for help. 

2. Putting 1 aside, no, I would not let her get anywhere near the guy. Imagine someone in your restaurant saying, you mean the fact that I admitted stealing 9,000 from you means you don't trust me alone with the register. Duh. She might say tough luck, I am seeing the guy, but now you now where you stand.


----------



## Catherine602

kilgore said:


> that seems like game playing that will only escalate things. why not just say he doesn't like it?


I agree but they are empty words if he is not bold. 

I wouldn't even bring something up like this to my husband. He would probably have me committed. He has no more leverage over me than the OP has over his wife. 

My husband has attitude. He does not back down from me. I back down first. I don't fear him nor do i feel threatened that he will walk out on me. I respect him and want him to think the best of me. He is a person I want to impress because he has value to me. For many reasons, he might not always be with me. Life happens. So I don't take him lightly.

The OP wife does not feel the way I feel. She does not care what her husband feels, she does not care if he respects her or not. She does not care to impress him and she is not worried that one day he will not be there. It has nothing to do with his value. It has to do with her silly fantasy. 

While she is day dreaming about being desired by an old bf, the man who really loves and cares about her is treated like he means nothing. He means everything. She would not have this fantasy if it were not for this loving man. She is secure in his love so she can relax and dream. He needs to shake things up. 

It's not a game. It's real life. He could reach a tipping point and just leave. She will be sorry that she let her family go for some bottom feeder who does not care a thing for her. She would beg him to take her back. 

Happens all the time. Instead of letting her think that he will always be there to be disrespected, he should be kind enough to let her know now, before it is too late, that she may lose him. That gives her a chance to stop being a fool and realize what she has and act accordingly. I think that is being honest not gaming.


----------



## Entropy3000

bradwesley said:


> it's nice to see that the beta boys are out in force tonight!


(((hugs)))


----------



## tom67

Entropy3000 said:


> (((hugs)))


(((Entropy)))
Oh wrong forum


----------



## Happyfamily

carguy129 said:


> I am not happy about my wife keeping in touch with him at all


Well there's a lesson there. She's going to push the envelope until you impose meaningful consequences.


----------



## clipclop2

No.

Send her here and let us tell her what she doesn't want to admit she is knowingly walking into.

Do not accept this for one second.

Also your marriage is already trouble. Address it straightaway.


----------



## barbados

Almost sexless marriage (2-3 times per month)

W carries on contact with ex sex partner for past 15 years.

W wants to meet for "coffee" (sex) with said guy.

This rabbit hole goes deeper than OP knows.


----------



## Omego

Catherine602 said:


> My husband has attitude. He does not back down from me. I back down first. I don't fear him nor do i feel threatened that he will walk out on me. I respect him and want him to think the best of me. He is a person I want to impress because he has value to me. For many reasons, he might not always be with me. Life happens. So I don't take him lightly.
> 
> The OP wife does not feel the way I feel. She does not care what her husband feels, she does not care if he respects her or not. She does not care to impress him and she is not worried that one day he will not be there. It has nothing to do with his value. It has to do with her silly fantasy.
> 
> Happens all the time. Instead of letting her think that he will always be there to be disrespected, he should be kind enough to let her know now, before it is too late, that she may lose him. That gives her a chance to stop being a fool and realize what she has and act accordingly. I think that is being honest not gaming.


:iagree::iagree:

This just nails it. It all boils down to being taken for granted. 

OP, I'm gong to chime in here with another female perspective as well. I wouldn't want to see an ex or be in contact with him because I'm only interested in my H and would be afraid of losing him if I tried anything like that. 

The problem lies within your marriage. If your W is fantasizing about a man from the past, you have a major problem. Others have given very good advice. I hope you follow it. Best of luck and I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation.


----------



## syhoybenden

Aw, he11 no!
:nono:


----------



## Married but Happy

OP can only decide and communicate his boundaries and concerns to her, and she will decide for herself if she feels they are reasonable or not. Either way, there are potential consequences, and they both will decide for themselves if they are worth risking.

Ultimately, they do not own each other, nor can they control each other, but they can negotiate and perhaps compromise, weighing each other's issues and concerns, and deciding how to value them versus their own and the relationship.


----------



## BradWesley

(((hugs)))


Entropy3000 said:


> (((hugs)))


Thank you and you're welcome!

It's always a healthy thing to acknowledge who you really are!


----------



## BostonBruins32

bandit.45 said:


> Tell her if she goes you will be going to see a lawyer....and mean it!
> 
> Ex lovers and ex boyfriends have no place in a marriage. You should never have put up with her corresponding with him. I bet if you dig in her phone and compute you will find out they are meeting for sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This. 

I would get weightlifter in here to help you figure out how to get some details on their conversations. No way they're meeting just to hang out.


----------



## DoF

The more I read and think about this thread, the more it seems like OP's wife thinks of OP as a "husband/father" and does her own thing on the side.

There is no way a loving/caring/considerate wife would EVER even THINK about talking about this stuff with their husband.

I'm sorry.

She is completely negligent, selfish, inconsiderate, disrespectful and HORNY on top of it.

At this point, I wouldn't even express to her how I feel about the situation. I would simply think about what type of a person she is by doing this and accept the person in front of me.

Once you really think about all that, clearly the only choice it so pack her **** and leave it in front of the door when she returns with divorce papers.

I wouldn't want to continue my marriage if my wife even THOUGHT that this sort of thing was ok. I can see my feelings/love for such person dwindle QUICKLY.

Ohh, HELL no.


----------



## weightlifter

1) Click on community
2) Pick members list
3) Choose H
4) Go to the page with hardtodetach
5) Read his thread
THAT is why you dont allow it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Married but Happy said:


> OP can only decide and communicate his boundaries and concerns to her, and she will decide for herself if she feels they are reasonable or not. Either way, there are potential consequences, and they both will decide for themselves if they are worth risking.
> 
> Ultimately, they do not own each other, nor can they control each other, but they can negotiate and perhaps compromise, weighing each other's issues and concerns, and deciding how to value them versus their own and the relationship.


I love the you don't own me stuff. Marriage is a partnership and as much as own is a hot word for some connotations people have with it, indeed when you enter into such a relationship there is ownership and accountability. You essentially put each other into each others keeping. When someone says my husband or my wife, there is a type of owndership there. Not slavery but a bond. We own the relationship. The relationship is two people in a lot of marriages.

This is why repeatedly people say that you don't control others but you can control yourself. Going along ith anything of this nature is at the very least tacet approval. You can say you are uncomfotable but if you allow, yes I said allow the other person to do this with no consequences you are not in agreement with it. Sure you may up the resentment and add to the spiralling. 

Also just like brakes that squeak, you deal with the problem early to ease the costs and more importantly dangers. Some people are less impacted by sharing their mate than others.

I mean hey, he could really stand his gorund and isist she use a condom but that is a ludicrous boundary. She will do what she wants. It is very unlikely tey will use a condom. He does not own her after all.


----------



## Entropy3000

BradWesley said:


> (((hugs)))
> 
> Thank you and you're welcome!
> 
> It's always a healthy thing to acknowledge who you really are!


Affirmations are a powerful tool.


----------



## GusPolinski

Married but Happy said:


> OP can only decide and communicate his boundaries and concerns to her, and she will decide for herself if she feels they are reasonable or not. Either way, there are potential consequences, and they both will decide for themselves if they are worth risking.
> 
> Ultimately, they do not own each other, nor can they control each other, but they can negotiate and perhaps compromise, weighing each other's issues and concerns, and deciding how to value them versus their own and the relationship.





Entropy3000 said:


> I love the you don't own me stuff. Marriage is a partnership and as much as own is a hot world for some connotations people have with it, indeed when you enter into such a relationship there is ownership and accountability. You essentially put each other into each others keeping. When someone says my husband ot my wife, there is a typ of owndership there. Not slavery but a bond.
> 
> This is why repeatedly people say that you don't control others but you can control yourself. Going along ith anything of this nature is at the very least tacet approval. You can say you are uncomfotable but if you allow, yes I said allow the other person to do this with no consequences you are not in agreement with it. Sure you may up the resentment and add to the spiralling.
> 
> Also just like brakes that squeak, you deal with the problem early to ease the costs and more importantly dangers. Some people are less impacted by sharing their mate than others.
> 
> I mean hey, he could really stand his gorund and isist she use a condom but that is a ludicrous boundary. She will do what she wants. It is very unlikely tey will use a condom. He does not own her after all.


IMO man and wife do indeed "own" each other, but only for as long as each "gives" himself/herself to the other -- absolutely, completely, and wholly.


----------



## BradWesley

Entropy3000 said:


> Affirmations are a powerful tool.


You completely missed the point!


----------



## DoF

GusPolinski said:


> IMO man and wife do indeed "own" each other, but only for as long as each "gives" himself/herself to the other -- absolutely, completely, and wholly.


Agreed

Most people that say "you are controlling" are simply telling you "I will do whatever I please whenever I please" read: I don't want to be locked down in a relationship.

But they want the benefits of BOTH.


----------



## Entropy3000

BradWesley said:


> You completely missed the point!


No, I did NOT. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Take it outside to another thread like Thundarr suggested. LOL. There can be a sausage fest of Alphaness. Until the ladies start taking names.


----------



## tom67

Entropy3000 said:


> No, I did NOT. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Take it outside to another thread like Thundarr suggested. LOL. There can be sausage fest of Alphaness. Until the ladies start taking names.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Haha. The OP hasn't posted since page 3. This could all be moot. She may have not realized how dead-set against it her husband was.

I agree it's inappropriate but that doesn't mean she's going to cheat. I do agree that the marriage isn't as solid as it should be and there are certainly things they should start doing and listening to his concerns even if she knows/thinks they are an overreaction.

She could insist he bring his wife so she can meet her. Then maybe OP would be OK with the meeting. Especially if they took a group photo to prove she was there. If they are FB friends, see if there is a public acknowledgement of the meeting. If they aren't hiding this, again, maybe it's just one of those things where they cared about each other, realized nothing more was going to come of it and left it as just friends. 

I think it's very telling that she's honest about this. I don't think she's doing it to be evil and conniving. I'm sensing a LOT of projection on this thread. A LOT.


----------



## treyvion

EnjoliWoman said:


> Haha. The OP hasn't posted since page 3. This could all be moot. She may have not realized how dead-set against it her husband was.
> 
> I agree it's inappropriate but that doesn't mean she's going to cheat. I do agree that the marriage isn't as solid as it should be and there are certainly things they should start doing and listening to his concerns even if she knows/thinks they are an overreaction.
> 
> She could insist he bring his wife so she can meet her. Then maybe OP would be OK with the meeting. Especially if they took a group photo to prove she was there. If they are FB friends, see if there is a public acknowledgement of the meeting. If they aren't hiding this, again, maybe it's just one of those things where they cared about each other, realized nothing more was going to come of it and left it as just friends.
> 
> I think it's very telling that she's honest about this. I don't think she's doing it to be evil and conniving. I'm sensing a LOT of projection on this thread. A LOT.


Even doing this group thing with the wife, but husband is to lowly to invite or "not fun", is not a good thing. Invite the husband too. If it truly is a friend, their level of frinedship should be different now and their partners should be able to come. If they do just HAVE to do it without their spouses, alot of times it is them getting that old feeling back and exploring romantacizm even if they don't act upon it sexually.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

EnjoliWoman said:


> *Haha. The OP hasn't posted since page 3. This could all be moot. * She may have not realized how dead-set against it her husband was.


Yeah I noticed this too. We should probably all back off until he replies again.


----------



## jack.c

EnjoliWoman said:


> Haha. The OP hasn't posted since page 3. This could all be moot. She may have not realized how dead-set against it her husband was.
> 
> I agree it's inappropriate but that doesn't mean she's going to cheat. I do agree that the marriage isn't as solid as it should be and there are certainly things they should start doing and listening to his concerns even if she knows/thinks they are an overreaction.
> 
> She could insist he bring his wife so she can meet her. Then maybe OP would be OK with the meeting. Especially if they took a group photo to prove she was there. If they are FB friends, see if there is a public acknowledgement of the meeting. If they aren't hiding this, again, maybe it's just one of those things where they cared about each other, realized nothing more was going to come of it and left it as just friends.
> 
> I think it's very telling that she's honest about this. I don't think she's doing it to be evil and conniving. I'm sensing a LOT of projection on this thread. A LOT.



In Italy they say:

THINK THE BAD THINGS TO IN ORDER TO AVOID THEM.

But then again.... you are probably right


----------



## BradWesley

Entropy3000 said:


> No, I did NOT. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Take it outside to another thread like Thundarr suggested. LOL. There can be sausage fest of Alphaness. Until the ladies start taking names.


You still don't get it, but not surprising since you seem to have difficulty understanding what is and is not a compliment. That's your problem not mine.

With regards to the ladies of TAM, I tend to agree with them more than i do the guys. They seem to have the "balls" as opposed to so many of the guys who are very weak!


----------



## bandit.45

Hope he comes back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EnjoliWoman

treyvion said:


> Even doing this group thing with the wife, but husband is to lowly to invite or "not fun", is not a good thing. Invite the husband too. If it truly is a friend, their level of frinedship should be different now and their partners should be able to come. If they do just HAVE to do it without their spouses, alot of times it is them getting that old feeling back and exploring romantacizm even if they don't act upon it sexually.


NOWHERE does the OP say his wife has implied he is too lowly to invite or he is "not fun". That is your projection or reading too much into the very little bit we know. OP has FOUR POSTS. We cannot assume very much from those four posts about him or his marriage. 

She already knows he runs his own business and school is in session. She doesn't have to ask to know that OP simply can't make it. Don't we all know our spouses schedules and our ability to pay for such a trip? 

I'm not saying it's a GOOD idea... I'm just saying her POSSIBLY meeting him for coffee (still no confirmation last we heard) doesn't mean she's going to automatically cheat. Don't be so jaded. I know I wouldn't cheat. I left my 13-year marriage and didn't cheat.


----------



## Malaise

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you consider a man who objects to his wife seeing an old lover to be weak.

And a strong man wouldn't concern himself with it.

The pages of TAM are full of men who were not worried about their wives seeing male 'friends'. A lot of those men are now divorced.


----------



## GusPolinski

EnjoliWoman said:


> Haha. The OP hasn't posted since page 3. This could all be moot. She may have not realized how dead-set against it her husband was.
> 
> *I agree it's inappropriate* but that doesn't mean she's going to cheat. I do agree that the marriage isn't as solid as it should be and there are certainly things they should start doing and listening to his concerns even if she knows/thinks they are an overreaction.
> 
> She could insist he bring his wife so she can meet her. Then maybe OP would be OK with the meeting. Especially if they took a group photo to prove she was there. If they are FB friends, see if there is a public acknowledgement of the meeting. If they aren't hiding this, again, maybe it's just one of those things where they cared about each other, realized nothing more was going to come of it and left it as just friends.
> 
> I think it's very telling that she's honest about this. I don't think she's doing it to be evil and conniving. I'm sensing a LOT of projection on this thread. A LOT.


Cheating quite often starts w/ "inappropriate" situations, correct?


----------



## Malaise

GusPolinski said:


> Cheating quite often starts w/ "inappropriate" situations, correct?


Not just that. If she meets her old lover, after her husband objects, she is not just being inappropriate, but also disrespectful.

And contemptuous of her H and the marriage as a whole. 

IMO


----------



## BradWesley

Malaise said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you consider a man who objects to his wife seeing an old lover to be weak.
> 
> And a strong man wouldn't concern himself with it.
> 
> The pages of TAM are full of men who were not worried about their wives seeing male 'friends'. A lot of those men are now divorced.


Where did I say that the OP was a weak man. I never said or indicated that.

Stop making assumptions!!!!


----------



## Malaise

Who are the weak men then?


----------



## BradWesley

Malaise said:


> Who are the weak men then?


If you have to ask the question, then you would not understand the answer.


----------



## tom67

I think Elvis has left the building.


----------



## Machiavelli

EnjoliWoman said:


> She already knows he runs his own business and school is in session. She doesn't have to ask to know that OP simply can't make it. Don't we all know our spouses schedules and our ability to pay for such a trip?


I agree with you. She's planned this out very well.


----------



## Malaise

BradWesley said:


> If you have to ask the question, then you would not understand the answer.


Thank you, Master Po.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

GusPolinski said:


> Cheating quite often starts w/ "inappropriate" situations, correct?


It often does. But as another poster used this analogy - every pot smoker doesn't try harder drugs or become an addict even if every addict started with smoking pot.

Just because she is in an inappropriate situation doesn't mean she SEES it as inappropriate if her intentions are not then she may very well see it as very innocent. If they've kept in touch but only occasionally, both are married, she may think coffee is just coffee and if he wants more she can always say NO.


----------



## Entropy3000

EnjoliWoman said:


> Haha. The OP hasn't posted since page 3. This could all be moot. She may have not realized how dead-set against it her husband was.
> 
> I agree it's inappropriate but that doesn't mean she's going to cheat. I do agree that the marriage isn't as solid as it should be and there are certainly things they should start doing and listening to his concerns even if she knows/thinks they are an overreaction.
> 
> She could insist he bring his wife so she can meet her. Then maybe OP would be OK with the meeting. Especially if they took a group photo to prove she was there. If they are FB friends, see if there is a public acknowledgement of the meeting. If they aren't hiding this, again, maybe it's just one of those things where they cared about each other, realized nothing more was going to come of it and left it as just friends.
> 
> I think it's very telling that she's honest about this. I don't think she's doing it to be evil and conniving. I'm sensing a LOT of projection on this thread. A LOT.


I guess it depends on how you define cheat. I don't think he should be ok with the relationship period. They are not childhood friends. They are hookups who stay in contact. Yes that could grow from there. BUT she should be going NC, instead she is going to get a shot of this guy that will seal the deal one way or the other. There is nothing ok with any of it.

The outward signs as people suggest are just cover. But really those are beside the point. By putting a facad on this she just sets up the relationship for further adventures. Best to squealch this as soon as possible.

He needs to ask himself why he has put up with this all along. Why is it even ok for her to suggest to him she meet up with a guy who banged her so long ago. I put it this way because this is the basis of the relationship. Why would he be ok with it escalating.

Instigation -- Ongoing to the point of planning a trip to meet up.

Isolation -- She is going across country to meet a man she has previously hooked up with sans her husband. This is part of the deal.

Escalation -- This escalates the relationship and puts them in to the venue to take it up a level.

She may be prepping her husband for the next level. Indeed this is one thing I have seen on TAM, that may be skewed. The number of men who are into this as a fantasy. Erotica for some. The Hotwife scenario. So many of these read that way. However, it appears that this may exist well beyond fantasy for way more couples than I would have thought. I don't know. But perhaps this is where this is going. It is more likely if this is for real that she is really just going to take her relationship to the next level with this guy. It is only sex. Right? 

Come on guys, there is nothing ok with any of this. Get real. Saying the wife being there is some kind of a boundary is absurd. Hey if we believe TAM they will just have a threesome. There are no boundaries right now.

So the fact she would even set this up would be enough for me to be a delabreaker. Honestly. Who even thinks this way?


----------



## Omego

I think she knows full well that it's not innocent. Constant contact over 15 years? Receiving a teddy bear (I mean why should he even know her mailing address)? Remembering her birthday? And, yes the OP has left the building, which makes me wonder......


----------



## Entropy3000

treyvion said:


> Even doing this group thing with the wife, but husband is to lowly to invite or "not fun", is not a good thing. Invite the husband too. If it truly is a friend, their level of frinedship should be different now and their partners should be able to come. If they do just HAVE to do it without their spouses, alot of times it is them getting that old feeling back and exploring romantacizm even if they don't act upon it sexually.


I can atest that once you have gone this far with someone it can take literally seconds from seeing each other to passionate kisses. It happens. It does not have to be seconds. But there is nothing to the seduction here. It is already prmied.


----------



## treyvion

Entropy3000 said:


> I can atest that once you have gone this far with someone it can take literally seconds from seeing each other to passionate kisses. It happens. It does not have to be seconds. But there is nothing to the seduction here. It is already prmied.


It was primed years ago, and they will pick up where they left off at.


----------



## Entropy3000

BradWesley said:


> You still don't get it, but not surprising since you seem to have difficulty understanding what is and is not a compliment. That's your problem not mine.
> 
> With regards to the ladies of TAM, I tend to agree with them more than i do the guys. They seem to have the "balls" as opposed to so many of the guys who are very weak!


I get way more than you could possibly imagine. On the internet people are not always who they represent. I am not playing though. Again move it somewhere else. I am going to put you on ignore because you seem to be playing to another audience.

Feel free to keep it going sans me.


----------



## Entropy3000

GusPolinski said:


> Cheating quite often starts w/ "inappropriate" situations, correct?


Inappropriate Behavior --> Unfaithfulness --> Cheating

The further it goes up this chain the harder it is to deal with and the more damge that has been done. There is a momentum but basically it is a like a cancer for the marriage. A self fullfilling prophecy. By the time it progresses the marriage is not worth saving at some point. So why let it get started?


----------



## GusPolinski

Machiavelli said:


> I agree with you. She's planned this out very well.


LOL. Word. I had the same thought.


----------



## ReformedHubby

EnjoliWoman said:


> She could insist he bring his wife so she can meet her. Then maybe OP would be OK with the meeting. Especially if they took a group photo to prove she was there.


I am projecting but realistically only one of two things would happen if she insisted he bring his wife.

1) "Something" comes up and all of a sudden he can't make it. This is the most likely scenario.

2) If he is actually dumb enough to ask his wife to come along. This would mean she would never hear from him again. I don't think his wife would kill him (although she would probably want to) she would just forbid him from meeting up or talking to her again.


----------



## treyvion

Entropy3000 said:


> Inappropriate Behavior --> Unfaithfulness --> Cheating
> 
> The further it goes up this chain the harder it is to deal with and the more damge that has been done. There is a momentum but basically it is a like a cancer for the marriage. A self fullfilling prophecy. By the time it progresses the marriage is not worth saving at some point. So why let it get started?


It is an escalation, and each level up is more exciting than the last.


----------



## GusPolinski

EnjoliWoman said:


> It often does. But as another poster used this analogy - every pot smoker doesn't try harder drugs or become an addict even if every addict started with smoking pot.
> 
> Just because she is in an inappropriate situation doesn't mean she SEES it as inappropriate if her intentions are not then she may very well see it as very innocent. If they've kept in touch but only occasionally, both are married, she may think coffee is just coffee and if he wants more she can always say NO.


Yeah, because it's totally normal to drive/fly all over to "just have coffee" w/ a former lover. Sounds legit to me.

Look, she's a married woman, and she shouldn't be putting herself into this situation, especially once her husband has voiced his objections. To continue w/ any plans to do so is -- at the very least -- highly disrespectful.

And that's more "telling" than anything.


----------



## treyvion

GusPolinski said:


> LOL. Word. I had the same thought.


She let the husband know this type of thing is going to be going on, so she won't have to cover tracks.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

3Xnocharm said:


> Oh, but you can. This is not some lifetime, innocent, childhood friend. Tell her if she goes, that you will not be there when she gets back. Put your foot down NOW.


As weird as this is to say "in this day and age", it's 100% true. At first your wife will be angry and even a little resentful. But explain that you value your marriage too much to allow it to have risky behaviors. It's like drinking and driving. Would your wife allow you to drive while drunk. Odds are (unless you're plastered) you'll make it home without incident...the concern over it is the "what if".


----------



## unbelievable

treyvion said:


> She let the husband know this type of thing is going to be going on, so she won't have to cover tracks.


Or to justify her behavior to herself by verifying that her husband accepts (and condones) her conduct. "He doesn't care, so why shouldn't I?" Maybe she is overtly engaging in this conduct precisely because she wants her husband to "fight" for her. If she didn't care what he thought about it there would be no need to even mention her plans to him. He'd have no way of knowing what or who she did on her trip. Maybe she wants his head to explode and for him to passionately demonstrate his devotion to her. Guys are often not naturally emotional but women are. Absence of passion to her might look like absence of caring.


----------



## naiveonedave

I really agree with Mach on this. Her telling him about the meetup is her rationalizing that if he doesn't say no, then my affair is okay. Him calling her out will lead to a fight, because she will not have a rationalization for how this could be OK, but she wants to do it anyway. There is just no way a married woman doesn't know what this meet up is about, no one is that naive.

If she goes on this trip and there truly is an affair, it will go underground after the trip. Hence my earlier post about sleuthing now.


----------



## treyvion

naiveonedave said:


> I really agree with Mach on this. Her telling him about the meetup is her rationalizing that if he doesn't say no, then my affair is okay. Him calling her out will lead to a fight, because she will not have a rationalization for how this could be OK, but she wants to do it anyway. There is just no way a married woman doesn't know what this meet up is about, no one is that naive.
> 
> If she goes on this trip and there truly is an affair, it will go underground after the trip. Hence my earlier post about sleuthing now.


I think she will go on the trip regardless.


----------



## bandit.45

treyvion said:


> I think she will go on the trip regardless.


I do to. This won't end well.


----------



## treyvion

bandit.45 said:


> I do to. This won't end well.


She's going to try to punk him down...

If he says anything she will verbally punk him down and do it anywy.

If he doesn't say anything she will do it, and it will punk him down knowing she did it.

This is one of those line in the sand type negotiations.


----------



## naiveonedave

treyvion - I totally agree, she is going, the OM is going to be there. The line in the sand is very well put. Which leads to the real question is what is the OP going to do?

IMO, she goes, I go lawyer up, if it was me. This is almost a straight out of the book MMSLP situation.


----------



## devotion

I found the tempest of this whole thread interesting and a reminder to me to really law down the rules of no contact with former exes. There's just no reason for that (I follow that rule, too, so its not one sided). My gf was friends with her ex on facebook and even though she still doesn't completely agree with the premise she's unfriended and stopped communicating at all. Mainly because I asked and because its one of the many things she does for me. End of story!


----------



## Q tip

Carguy129

Where are you....?

How are you. What s going on. What are your plans and thoughts....?


----------



## DoF

Malaise said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you consider a man who objects to his wife seeing an old lover to be weak.
> 
> And a strong man wouldn't concern himself with it.
> 
> The pages of TAM are full of men who were not worried about their wives seeing male 'friends'. A lot of those men are now divorced.


To their defense, chances are high that their wife would've done it elsewhere regardless.

You can't really stop someone from doing whatever they want to do.....one can only voice their concerns, or be quiet.

Act usually follows regardless....


----------



## treyvion

DoF said:


> To their defense, chances are high that their wife would've done it elsewhere regardless.
> 
> You can't really stop someone from doing whatever they want to do.....one can only voice their concerns, or be quiet.
> 
> Act usually follows regardless....


You can't stop them at all... But you can choose not to be around any longer. Either that or resuming a similar level of activities yourself.


----------



## DoF

treyvion said:


> You can't stop them at all... But you can choose not to be around any longer. Either that or resuming a similar level of activities yourself.


Sure, although I wouldn't lower my standards to crappy person like that.

But agreed on "no longer being there"


----------



## treyvion

DoF said:


> Sure, although I wouldn't lower my standards to crappy person like that.
> 
> But agreed on "no longer being there"


We need to be mindful that we don't have to get caught up in the moment with these sitches. Sometimes it just wasn't for us...


----------



## Omego

bandit.45 said:


> I do to. This won't end well.


And that's what is terrible. They have kids. The best thing would be for OP to put his foot down and for the wife to decide that she doesn't want to lose him. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like she's going to do that.


----------



## turnera

Q tip said:


> Carguy129
> 
> Where are you....?


Car 54, Where Are You? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tee hee (showing my age)


----------



## tdwal

turnera said:


> Car 54, Where Are You? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Tee hee (showing my age)


Your that old? I thought only I was.


----------



## turnera

Still remember the theme song!


----------



## lancaster

I guess as others have pointed out it does not matter what the wife does, it is the actions taken by the OP that are most important.

I do not tell my wife what she can or cannot do. Similarly, I do not tell her who she can spend time with. I have made it clear she can do anything she desires as long as she realizes there are consequences. For me, those consequences involve me leaving her if need be. Considering the state of our marriage and her desire to work on it, I think she evaluates her actions completely, as do I.


----------



## Q tip

turnera said:


> Car 54, Where Are You? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Tee hee (showing my age)


wow, someone gets it...


----------



## bandit.45

Carguy, what is your 20?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Q tip

I think he's blown a gasket...

He should consider junking her and trading up


----------



## Thor

Carguy, lots of strong opinions on this forum. But you can be certain that everyone here wants you to have a great, fun, fulfilling, and happy marriage. Even though there are many suggestions you file for divorce, tell her not to come home, etc, all of these people are either speaking from personal experience of being too soft on their wandering spouse or they successfully used strong actions to either stop a developing affair or kill an ongoing affair.

Don't give up yet. We're in your corner for you and your family.


----------



## Vanton68

tom67 said:


> Ugh...
> I'm a guy and if I am meeting a woman taking a 5 hour drive it is not for just coffee I can tell you that.:banghead:
> Yes they are meeting for a fling (sex).
> Now what is your line in the sand?


Not me, I'll drive 5 hours for just coffee, but if the drive is 5 1/2 hours it's for porn star sex.


----------



## Theseus

Thundarr said:


> It's the very thing many unfaithful partners do to camouflage what they're doing.


That's ridiculous. So if she tells her husband all about this guy, that's part of her sinister plan to mess with his mind and camouflage the relationship.

Yet, if she hides it, then she must be guilty because why else would she hide it, right?

So she's guilty no matter what she does!


----------



## Theseus

GusPolinski said:


> Honestly it's really not enough to say just "No" to this. Instead, go w/ this...
> 
> "HELL NO, SH*T NO, F*CK NO. NO!!!"
> 
> If she does it anyway, make sure that she comes home to new door locks and packed bags waiting for her in the driveway.



Even if you think the wife's relationship is inappropriate, I think we should at least agree that the above reaction is really over the top. It's sad that several people "liked" it.

If the OP divorces his wife over this, what reason would he give to the judge? "My wife had lunch with another man?" Think about that for a moment.

Between doing nothing, and kicking her out/filing for divorce, there are a lot of other, less drastic options available.


----------



## GusPolinski

Theseus said:


> Even if you think the wife's relationship is inappropriate, I think we should at least agree that the above reaction is really over the top. It's sad that several people "liked" it.
> 
> If the OP divorces his wife over this, what reason would he give to the judge? "My wife had lunch with another man?" Think about that for a moment.
> 
> Between doing nothing, and kicking her out/filing for divorce, there are a lot of other, less drastic options available.


Like what? Voicing his objection? Requesting that she not do it? Wait, he already did those things.

Seriously, how would you react if your wife said this to you...

"Hey honey, while I'm out of town next week, I'm going to meet up w/ this guy that I f*cked a couple of times years ago while I was backpacking around Europe. By the way, we never really 'broke it off', per se, it's just that we sort of went our separate ways. But even still, we've kept in touch all these years, and he still buys me birthday gifts. Oh, and he's also flying in specifically to 'have coffee' w/ me. He's also getting a hotel for the night."


----------



## Entropy3000

Theseus said:


> Even if you think the wife's relationship is inappropriate, I think we should at least agree that the above reaction is really over the top. It's sad that several people "liked" it.
> 
> If the OP divorces his wife over this, what reason would he give to the judge? "My wife had lunch with another man?" Think about that for a moment.
> 
> Between doing nothing, and kicking her out/filing for divorce, there are a lot of other, less drastic options available.


One less drastic option is for her to not meet this guy.

Imagine that.


----------



## lancaster

Theseus said:


> Even if you think the wife's relationship is inappropriate, I think we should at least agree that the above reaction is really over the top. It's sad that several people "liked" it.
> 
> If the OP divorces his wife over this, what reason would he give to the judge? "My wife had lunch with another man?" Think about that for a moment.
> 
> Between doing nothing, and kicking her out/filing for divorce, there are a lot of other, less drastic options available.


This is not just "another man" it is an old romantic interest and sexual partner. They are going out of their way to meet one another despite any concerns voiced by their spouses.

Something does not smell right here IMO.


----------



## larry.gray

Theseus said:


> That's ridiculous. So if she tells her husband all about this guy, that's part of her sinister plan to mess with his mind and camouflage the relationship.
> 
> Yet, if she hides it, then she must be guilty because why else would she hide it, right?
> 
> So she's guilty no matter what she does!


Correct. The proper answer is neither of those you listed, it is: don't meet up with ex lovers.


----------



## Thundarr

Theseus said:


> That's ridiculous. So if she tells her husband all about this guy, that's part of her sinister plan to mess with his mind and camouflage the relationship.
> 
> Yet, if she hides it, then she must be guilty because why else would she hide it, right?
> 
> So she's guilty no matter what she does!


Context; You said in your original quote that you think he should trust her and you used the fact he told her about this guy as an example why. My point is that her telling him about this guy doesn't prove innocence or guilt because people not cheating do it and people cheating also do it. Both use it to keep their spouse from being suspicious. So it means nothing. 

Regarding carguy, I actually don't think it matters what anyone says on this thread. His wife is going to do whatever she wants to because she knows he's going to make noise but that's about it.


----------



## Malaise

Thundarr said:


> Context; You said in your original quote that you think he should trust her and you used the fact he told her about this guy as an example why. My point is that her telling him about this guy doesn't prove innocence or guilt because people not cheating do it and people cheating also do it. Both use it to keep their spouse from being suspicious. So it means nothing.
> 
> *Regarding carguy, I actually don't think it matters what anyone says on this thread. His wife is going to do whatever she wants to because she knows he's going to make noise but that's about it.*


That about sums it up then.


----------



## michzz

Theseus said:


> If the OP divorces his wife over this, what reason would he give to the judge? "My wife had lunch with another man?" Think about that for a moment.


No, it would be:
*"my wife had lunch with a so-called former romantic interest while on a business trip despite the objections of her husband."*


----------



## nuclearnightmare

EnjoliWoman said:


> Haha. The OP hasn't posted since page 3. This could all be moot. She may have not realized how dead-set against it her husband was.
> 
> I agree it's inappropriate but that doesn't mean she's going to cheat. I do agree that the marriage isn't as solid as it should be and there are certainly things they should start doing and listening to his concerns even if she knows/thinks they are an overreaction.
> 
> She could insist he bring his wife so she can meet her. Then maybe OP would be OK with the meeting. Especially if they took a group photo to prove she was there. If they are FB friends, see if there is a public acknowledgement of the meeting. If they aren't hiding this, again, maybe it's just one of those things where they cared about each other, realized nothing more was going to come of it and left it as just friends.
> 
> I think it's very telling that she's honest about this. I don't think she's doing it to be evil and conniving. I'm sensing a LOT of projection on this thread. A LOT.


this underscores that boundaries can be different for different couples. but it sounds like she has violated two of his boundaries, but perhaps he has not excelled in communicating them to her.

that's an easy one for him to solve though. he needs to bring down the hammer on her maintaining ANY kind of relationship with this guy. what she did is disrespectful to him whether she was honest about it or not. 

He does have a dilemma in terms of what consequences to shower her with if she does not immediately apologize and agree that what she did (for 15 years) was wrong, even if she didn't physically cheat. He can't control her but he can threaten her, with 100% intent to follow through if need be.


----------



## Entropy3000

Coffee


----------



## Windwalker

michzz said:


> No, it would be:
> *"my wife had lunch with a so-called former romantic interest while on a business trip despite the objections of her husband."*


Actually it should read.

No, it would be:
"my wife had lunch with a former *FVCK BUDDY that never really cut ties* while on a business trip despite the objections of her husband."

So what exactly did they have in common? I mean other than the sex?


----------



## murphy5

Q tip said:


> wow, someone gets it...


not to show MY AGE, but i got toody's autograph at a restaurant at the NY worlds fair when i was a kid!


----------



## Machiavelli

Entropy3000 said:


> Coffee


I don't remember those guys being that young looking.


----------



## tom67

Machiavelli said:


> I don't remember those guys being that young looking.


And you are happier for it. if you don't remember them at all.


----------



## clipclop2

A lot of people have affairs in plain sight. 

First thing they do is convince themselves they are just being friends with the opposite sex person.

Their spouse is clued in so they think they are not doing anything wrong. But in hearts they know that their heart is being tempted. By not revealing that temptation to their spouse they allow themselves to walk into an affair.

When you tell your spouse that you are intrigued by someone, attracted to them, feel a desire to spend time with them especially alone, everyone is clear about the temptation.

When you are willing to spend time alone with an opposite sex friend with whom you have had a relationship you are saying you are willing to risk your marriage.

There is the impression of impropriety. 

Why would anyone want to make their spouse worry if they could avoid it?

If I really want to see another man that bad I know my husband should be there. A spark in the past can be ignited easily. The past has a huge pull on people. There is also a weird psychology that justifies it because it was before the spouse and has nothing to do with them.

The only man I would like to see on my own is one I should not be with on my own.


----------



## tom67

Nothing to see here - YouTube


----------



## devotion

clipclop2 said:


> If I really want to see another man that bad I know my husband should be there. A spark in the past can be ignited easily. The past has a huge pull on people. There is also a weird psychology that justifies it because it was before the spouse and has nothing to do with them.
> 
> The only man I would like to see on my own is one I should not be with on my own.


Exactly! I actually have some passing interest in seeing what my ex-wife is doing. I have absolutely no interest in her romantically or sexually, but if I did see her, I'm taking my GF with me. I have no idea what HER intentions would be, #1, and yes, there was a past there, and I don't need to drudge up that past. 

Bottom line is I hope the OP told his wife that he doesn't want her to do it. If she still does it, then he has to decide how big a deal it is. My GF had asked me what I would do if she didn't want to unfriend her ex on Facebook. I said I would be disappointed and sad that she didn't do it for me. Maybe I would have broken up with her on it, don't know. I know that if she was going to go SEE the guy then yes, I would. Not allowed now, and definitely not if we get married. And its not that I'm telling her what to do.. she can do it, just not with me.


----------



## carguy129

Theseus said:


> As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I already knew this would be most people's response on this forum. :slap:
> 
> Carguy, generally most people on this forum are opposed to opposite sex friendships period.
> 
> HOWEVER, if your wife planned to cheat on you, then she wouldn't have told you about this guy. *As a matter of fact, she didn't have to tell you she was meeting him at all*.
> 
> Either you trust your wife or you don't. It sounds like she is being upfront and honest with you, so I vote that you continue to trust her.
> 
> You don't have to trust *him*, and sure, maybe he's looking for sex, maybe not, but it takes two to cheat. One is not enough.


***UPDATE*** Hello all. I did not expect to get so many responses when I started this thread. I was unable to get to a computer yesterday (I started this thread on Monday and today is Wed)and so when I logged in this morning, I could not believe all the responses. I have not had a chance to read all of them but the quote above really applies here. My wife and I had a long talk Monday night.

I trust my wife. I don't trust this schlep who has been keeping in touch with my wife. I now honestly believe she just thought it was innocent. She did not have sex with many men before we met and she does not realize how most guys think. They will cheat on their wife if given the chance. (sorry guys - not all of us but probably the majority) Especially if a perfect circumstance arrives like being away on business with a hotel room to go to.

In reference to my wife not being interested anymore in this guy sexually, she said "if you don't believe me, read the facebook correspondence". And so I did. He initiated all the contact over the years. She did respond to it. Over the last 12 months, he sent her his cell number 3 times saying he wanted to chat to catch up. She did not respond to those emails, did not give him her cell number, has never texted him and does not have his cell number in her cell phone contacts ( I checked).

She is not going to go for coffee with him. She realizes how much this was upsetting me and so agreed it was not a good idea. She won't initiate any contact with him. This guys wife knows about his friendship with my wife and was even emailed my wife once (I think it was to thank my wife for an email she sent congratulating them on the birth of their son). She probably trust her husband and does not realize what his likely real intentions are. Or maybe they have an open marriage - who knows.

My wife now realizes that it is highly likely that that given the opportunity, he would cheat on his wife with my wife. (my wife is hot - I can't blame him). and that no, planning a business trip to another city to be there the same time as her is not innocent. She realizes that now. Some posters have sent that "some woman have blinders on when it comes to this". My wife did. 

We talked for 2 hours Monday night and it brought us a lot closer. The silver lining to this situation. I know I take my wife for granted some times and need to show her more often how I feel about her. Sure we fight, but she is still the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with. She does know that I am attracted to her, or more that I want to have sex with her all the time ( I don't think she realizes that she completely turns me on - just thinks I am very horny all the time). But she said that she needs to feel wanted non-sexually as well. More date nights and talking. (btw - we had awesome sex Monday night after she finished packing for her trip and the kids went to bed).

I'll read some more of the responses and reply again. Thanks for everyones input


----------



## Caribbean Man

carguy129 said:


> ***UPDATE*** Hello all. I did not expect to get so many responses when I started this thread. I was unable to get to a computer yesterday (I started this thread on Monday and today is Wed)and so when I logged in this morning, I could not believe all the responses. I have not had a chance to read all of them but the quote above really applies here. My wife and I had a long talk Monday night.
> 
> I trust my wife. I don't trust this schlep who has been keeping in touch with my wife. I now honestly believe she just thought it was innocent. She did not have sex with many men before we met and she does not realize how most guys think. They will cheat on their wife if given the chance. (sorry guys - not all of us but probably the majority) Especially if a perfect circumstance arrives like being away on business with a hotel room to go to.
> 
> In reference to my wife not being interested anymore in this guy sexually, she said "if you don't believe me, read the facebook correspondence". And so I did. He initiated all the contact over the years. She did respond to it. Over the last 12 months, he sent her his cell number 3 times saying he wanted to chat to catch up. She did not respond to those emails, did not give him her cell number, has never texted him and does not have his cell number in her cell phone contacts ( I checked).
> 
> She is not going to go for coffee with him. She realizes how much this was upsetting me and so agreed it was not a good idea. She won't initiate any contact with him. This guys wife knows about his friendship with my wife and was even emailed my wife once (I think it was to thank my wife for an email she sent congratulating them on the birth of their son). She probably trust her husband and does not realize what his likely real intentions are. Or maybe they have an open marriage - who knows.
> 
> My wife now realizes that it is highly likely that that given the opportunity, he would cheat on his wife with my wife. (my wife is hot - I can't blame him). and that no, planning a business trip to another city to be there the same time as her is not innocent. She realizes that now. Some posters have sent that "some woman have blinders on when it comes to this". My wife did.
> 
> We talked for 2 hours Monday night and it brought us a lot closer. The silver lining to this situation. I know I take my wife for granted some times and need to show her more often how I feel about her. Sure we fight, but she is still the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with. She does know that I am attracted to her, or more that I want to have sex with her all the time ( I don't think she realizes that she completely turns me on - just thinks I am very horny all the time). But she said that she needs to feel wanted non-sexually as well. More date nights and talking. (btw - we had awesome sex Monday night after she finished packing for her trip and the kids went to bed).
> 
> I'll read some more of the responses and reply again. Thanks for everyones input


Good that this entire episode has served as a wake up call to you.
Good to see that your wife understands your concerns and isn't calling you insecure or a control freak.
Marriage takes work.

In the meantime , you can read some very good books suggested here in this thread and make sure that your marriage has good , sound boundaries which both of you agree on and respect.

Best wishes on your marriage.

One more thing, never be afraid to raise your concerns about your perception of issues within your marriage ,with your wife.


----------



## carguy129

Aspydad said:


> Sorry but this post just does not hold true - at least for everyone. So I will respectfully have to disagree!
> 
> I for one (who loves has wife very much) had an emotional affair with my first love (five years ago). It started with us innocently connecting on Facebook (25 years after the breakup). I told my wife of this - showed my kids this women's picture - they commented right away how much she looked like my wife! and she does! Reason I even met my wife is that I saw her on campus and had to meet her because she looked just like my first love (this was one and a half years after the devastating break-up.) I have never told my wife this but it is true.
> 
> I had no intention of getting close to my first love via this Facebook connection – but we did get close. Found out she was not happy in her marriage – also found out that I was her first love as well – I never knew that. The reason we broke up is because we were semi long distance as she went to a different college 1.5 hours away but was in my home town – then during the summer – she went back to her home town which was four hours away – we did not make it as I thought she did not love me and I bailed – did the 180 big time – I was just 18 and falling in love scared the hell out of me (of course I did not know what love was back then – but, I do now.)
> 
> We conversed for two months until her husband decided he did not like us connected. I will tell you, that it did give me a high to communicate with her as the old feelings did come back to me. There is only one woman in the world that could temp me to cheat on my wife and this was / is the girl. I kept telling myself and her that I changed the feelings for her from the deep ones I had to more of a friendship – but, who was I kidding? If you ever heard the song “Lips of an Angel” I swear she had those lips – I just melted when I first kissed her and have never had a kiss like that again! While I love my wife more than I ever loved this woman – the love is completely different.
> 
> Knowing what I know about myself – there is no way in hell I would let my wife go to meet with an old lover!! The guy could be telling himself that no way I would cheat on my wife - and your wife may be telling herself there is no way I will cheat on my husband – but, I tell you the high one gets from connecting with an old flame is very powerful. By the way – if they have been communicating for years – they do have emotional feelings for one another. Good luck with that.


WOW - that nails it big time. Those old feelings coming back can be very powerful. I don't think my wife realizes that now and I told her she likely wouldn't until she saw this guy in person and it all comes rushing back. The memories of being 25 and free and single and that rush of meeting someone new. I told her that even though she was thinking now that she only planned on coffee and chatting, perhaps they have a few glasses of wine and it all starts coming back. Definitely a situation to avoid. I realize this even more now myself.


----------



## carguy129

Malaise said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you consider a man who objects to his wife seeing an old lover to be weak.
> 
> And a strong man wouldn't concern himself with it.
> 
> The pages of TAM are full of men who were not worried about their wives seeing male 'friends'. A lot of those men are now divorced.


I did think I was being strong and secure to put up with it. My wife said that she is kind of flattered that it bothers me. (I think a little jealousy can be a good thing). She is not upset that I do not want her to meet him (I did not forbid her, I think that would say I completely distrust her). And that yes, my feelings or way more important than keeping in touch with him.


----------



## jorgegene

This story sounds like it will have a happy ending.


----------



## jorgegene

Unfortunately, most of these stories don't.


----------



## carguy129

unbelievable said:


> Or to justify her behavior to herself by verifying that her husband accepts (and condones) her conduct. "He doesn't care, so why shouldn't I?" Maybe she is overtly engaging in this conduct precisely because she wants her husband to "fight" for her. If she didn't care what he thought about it there would be no need to even mention her plans to him. He'd have no way of knowing what or who she did on her trip. Maybe she wants his head to explode and for him to passionately demonstrate his devotion to her. Guys are often not naturally emotional but women are. Absence of passion to her might look like absence of caring.


I agree. I don't think that was intentional on her part but it certainly appeals to our base instinct. Kind of like if some guy grabbed her ass in a bar and kicked the crap out of him. That would be low brow behaviour on my part and my wife would likely not be overtly happy about and would probably give me **** but I bet you it would damn sure make her feel protected and wanted.


----------



## bandit.45

carguy129 said:


> I agree. I don't think that was intentional on her part but it certainly appeals to our base instinct. Kind of like if some guy grabbed her ass in a bar and kicked the crap out of him. That would be low brow behaviour on my part and my wife would likely not be overtly happy about and would probably give me **** but I bet you it would damn sure make her feel protected and wanted.


Congratulations on successfully nipping this in the bud before it got out of hand. 

What you said above is true. One things about women: when their man stands up to another man in her defense, society will tell her to scold the husband for being jealous. And she will usually do so. But subconsciously the act will reinforce her knowledge that her man loves her.

I think you're going to get laid a little more for a while.


----------



## bandit.45

Did you ask her to end this friendship with the ex? If not you should. 

Like I said, ex-lovers and ex-boyfriends have no place in a marriage. This guy needs to go away forever.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Did you ask her to end this friendship with the ex? If not you should.
> 
> Like I said, ex-lovers and ex-boyfriends have no place in a marriage. This guy needs to go away forever.


No more teddy bears
Unless it's from YOU.


----------



## Q tip

She needs to tell him and copy his wife and you no trip. It's cancelled. Then No contact permanently.

Unfriend FB and remove/block any and all contact from all sources. 

If he attempts contact, she needs to take no action except tell you. 

He's initiated all contact and she responds. Coffee offer after a 5 hour trip is pure BS. She responded. It all needs to stop permanently

He is not a friend of your marriage or her personally. He's toxic. A poison. 

Good work protecting her and your marriage! Take action now while she agrees. She should not care in the least if you are right. If she disagrees, she definitely does not take the trip.


----------



## michzz

Stay vigilant for awhile.

Sometimes things go underground.

I wouldn't tell your wife you are monitoring, but do so for a bit.

That FB discussion could have been pruned to look good.


----------



## tom67

michzz said:


> Stay vigilant for awhile.
> 
> Sometimes things go underground.
> 
> I wouldn't tell your wife you are monitoring, but do so for a bit.
> 
> That FB discussion could have been pruned to look good.


To make sure it's over please find a way to contact his wife.
You need a second set of eyes on this.
Otherwise good job.


----------



## Omego

I love the way this story ended. I was too pessimistic. I'm glad it all worked out OP.


----------



## bandit.45

You need to talk to the other man's wife and ask her if she even knew he was planning on meeting with your wife.

Bet you she did not.


----------



## DoF

bandit.45 said:


> You need to talk to the other man's wife and ask her if she even knew he was planning on meeting with your wife.
> 
> Bet you she did not.


OP's only concern is his WIFE, not the guy or his wife. 

Glad it worked out, but keep in mind that your wife might be telling you everything you want to hear.

Trust but verify.


----------



## Q tip

Huh? This is not over. He needs to gain closure and rid her of this pest forever. NC. The whole thing!


----------



## treyvion

Q tip said:


> Huh? This is not over. He needs to gain closure and rid her of this pest forever. NC. The whole thing!


VARS, Keyloggers, GPS, Cell phone tracking and all are in order. He needs to find out for sure she shut it down. They may stop for a little bit, but anything can trigger it to restart.

And a teddy bear as a gift, comon, that's pretty sentimental.


----------



## Q tip

treyvion said:


> VARS, Keyloggers, GPS, Cell phone tracking and all are in order. He needs to find out for sure she shut it down. They may stop for a little bit, but anything can trigger it to restart.
> 
> And a teddy bear as a gift, comon, that's pretty sentimental.


Yep! They only talked. ACTION is what is measured at this point.


----------



## carguy129

tom67 said:


> To make sure it's over please find a way to contact his wife.
> You need a second set of eyes on this.
> Otherwise good job.


I would not go that far. I do need to put some trust in my wife. If she says she is not going, then I need to trust her at her word. If there is no trust in a marriage, it is done for. Maybe I get hurt by something happening in the future but if I have zero trust in her then I may as well leave now. If she goes to meet this guy and I find out, then yes, our marriage is likely over but I do not get a gut feeling that she is out to betray me here. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Our marriage is not perfect and over the years, there have been times when I thought, this is done. Hell, I was even on ****** ******* at one point (I know that is opening a whole new can of worms but nothing came of it) but that is not how I feel now. In fact, this matter may have sparked a renewal in our marriage where we start to communicate better and show more appreciation for each other. A little jealousy may have been what I needed as a wake up call. 

I know this. If I left my wife, guys would be lining up to take my place before the sun set.


----------



## Marduk

bandit.45 said:


> Did you ask her to end this friendship with the ex? If not you should.
> 
> Like I said, ex-lovers and ex-boyfriends have no place in a marriage. This guy needs to go away forever.


Agree with your second point but not sure about the first.

He should go quiet on this and be observant for a while. If she cuts off all contact with this guy on her own, he can trust her and know that she can handle this kind of thing in the future. He's also off the hook for any future guilt trips on this point.

If she doesn't, he should be very, very cautious.


----------



## carguy129

bandit.45 said:


> You need to talk to the other man's wife and ask her if she even knew he was planning on meeting with your wife.
> 
> Bet you she did not.


I have thought of this. Still do and still might. If I see or hear anything inappropriate from him I likely will. I did not ask my wife if the other guys wife was aware of him talking about a meeting but I will when she gets back.


----------



## carguy129

carguy129 said:


> I would not go that far. I do need to put some trust in my wife. If she says she is not going, then I need to trust her at her word. If there is no trust in a marriage, it is done for. Maybe I get hurt by something happening in the future but if I have zero trust in her then I may as well leave now. If she goes to meet this guy and I find out, then yes, our marriage is likely over but I do not get a gut feeling that she is out to betray me here. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Our marriage is not perfect and over the years, there have been times when I thought, this is done. Hell, I was even on ****** ******* at one point (I know that is opening a whole new can of worms but nothing came of it) but that is not how I feel now. In fact, this matter may have sparked a renewal in our marriage where we start to communicate better and show more appreciation for each other. A little jealousy may have been what I needed as a wake up call.
> 
> I know this. If I left my wife, guys would be lining up to take my place before the sun set.


That's funny. This website blocked the name of the website I typed. The dating website for married people.


----------



## naiveonedave

Just my opinion, but I would keep my eyes and ears open for awhile. You may have caught on to something and your wife had a plan for if you found out. Low probabilty, imo, based on what you have written, but better to err on knowing versus not knowing.


----------



## Q tip

Contact the OMW. Your wife needs not know. If there are issues, she may warn him with time to say you are crazy. Just contact the OMW. If your wife mentions something, you'll know they are in contact.

Think! It is a bit of a chess game. TAM/CWI gets you off checkers and onto Chess!


----------



## bandit.45

You're wife may be honest and honestly did not know what she was getting into.

Or she might be a cooler customer than you think and she may try to keep things going with the OM by taking it underground.

Here is the deal, you haven't really looked into all the communications they have had. You have not really snooped to see the extent of their correspondences. I think you need to install a key logger on her computer to see if she is e-mailing him, and also a VAR under the front seat of her car to see if she is talking to him.

The best outcome is you find nothing, but the money and time invested is worth the peace of mind you would be getting.


----------



## Hicks

I think your fine. Showing the facebook correspondence tells you right there it's innocent from her side. You convinced her it's not innocent from his side. She then agreed and canceled plans for him to meet her. I think it would be a mistake to treat her like a cheater now.


----------



## larry.gray

carguy129 said:


> That's funny. This website blocked the name of the website I typed. The dating website for married people.


It's a pro-marriage forum. That website goes against everything this one stands for.


----------



## treyvion

carguy129 said:


> That's funny. This website blocked the name of the website I typed. The dating website for married people.


Is that ****** ******* .com? Thought that was a big cheating site...


----------



## treyvion

larry.gray said:


> It's a pro-marriage forum. That website goes against everything this one stands for.


It's promoting people to be tortured in marriages in which they are being cheated or treated horribly?


----------



## changedbeliefs

Don't contact the other guy, or his wife, what a childish suggestion. If you don't want your wife to see, or do anything with, this guy, then you tell her exactly how you feel, yourself. I suggest you cut right through the crap, with something like this:

"I know you probably are attracted to him, enjoy his company and would like to be with him physically. However, you're married, I forbid it, you're mine." In essence, that's what this comes down to.


----------



## treyvion

treyvion said:


> Is that ****** ******* .com? Thought that was a big cheating site...


I said the words "A" "S" "H" "L" "E" "Y" and "M" "A" "D" "I" "S" "O" "N"


----------



## naiveonedave

changed - you can not argure with a liar. If she is cheating, and you confront with no evidence, it goes further underground. Don't see the point of even confronting. He did enough of that now. Eyes and ears open, mouth shut right now. OP needs to decide if how much he wants to snoop.


----------



## bandit.45

He can snoop and verify without accusing his wife or being a d!ck. She doesn't need to know he is doing this. If he finds nothing, then he can rest easy and spend his time figuring out how to make their sex life more frequent and exciting.


----------



## Q tip

carguy129 said:


> I would not go that far. I do need to put some trust in my wife. If she says she is not going, then I need to trust her at her word. If there is no trust in a marriage, it is done for. Maybe I get hurt by something happening in the future but if I have zero trust in her then I may as well leave now. If she goes to meet this guy and I find out, then yes, our marriage is likely over but I do not get a gut feeling that she is out to betray me here. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Our marriage is not perfect and over the years, there have been times when I thought, this is done. Hell, I was even on ****** ******* at one point (I know that is opening a whole new can of worms but nothing came of it) but that is not how I feel now. In fact, this matter may have sparked a renewal in our marriage where we start to communicate better and show more appreciation for each other. A little jealousy may have been what I needed as a wake up call.
> 
> 
> 
> I know this. If I left my wife, guys would be lining up to take my place before the sun set.



Disagree. You are taking steps to protect your marriage. Don't chicken out (beta out). Why put the fox in the chicken house because you trust the chickens. Protect your marriage. What else does a hubby do...? Open the door?

Think. It's free. Don't think and regret.


They were fvck buddies and wanna meet up. Contact the OMW. Pressure and attention on both ends can help. 


Alternative - trust the chicken and the fox...


----------



## Thundarr

You discussed it and she agreed it's not a good idea and she understands it's big deal to you. Well that's how we would have hoped she would react. It's a good sign. Fingers crossed.

She then felt compelled to prove to you that she hasn't been inappropriate by asking you to look at her email. I'm hoping this was pretty spontaneous and not hours later though. I'm sure you'd let us know. That's good too. Transparency is a big deal.

You verified phone records so you'd actually trust what she was saying. I didn't you think had it in you carguy. That kind of verification is a touch thing to wrap your head around as being good. But in a case where red flags are popping up you really owe it to you marriage to snoop a little.

Good job and good luck.


----------



## Q tip

So they won't meet up? 

Contact the OMW. 

She'll know if he will be in town or out of town. A fake biz trip was planned. If you compare notes, you may have saved two marriages. If he stays home during your W trip - great. If he's there - problem. Fake trip remember? 

Do the OMW a huge favor. Contact her directly. Perhaps he's on his last chance with her with all his cheating and your W is too great a temptation for him. Remember, he's had a taste. You don't know this guy at all.

MMSLP is a must read. ASAP. Bet you don't know what a 10 second kiss is for...


----------



## Happyfamily

carguy129 said:


> That's funny. This website blocked the name of the website I typed. The dating website for married people.


Ok, so the plot thickens. She was maintaining contact with a former lover, and you were on a dating site for married people.


----------



## Q tip

carguy129 said:


> I would not go that far. I do need to put some trust in my wife. If she says she is not going, then I need to trust her at her word. If there is no trust in a marriage, it is done for. Maybe I get hurt by something happening in the future but if I have zero trust in her then I may as well leave now. If she goes to meet this guy and I find out, then yes, our marriage is likely over but I do not get a gut feeling that she is out to betray me here. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Our marriage is not perfect and over the years, there have been times when I thought, this is done. Hell, I was even on ****** ******* at one point (I know that is opening a whole new can of worms but nothing came of it) but that is not how I feel now. In fact, this matter may have sparked a renewal in our marriage where we start to communicate better and show more appreciation for each other. A little jealousy may have been what I needed as a wake up call.
> 
> I know this. If I left my wife, guys would be lining up to take my place before the sun set.


Wake up please. You spoke with your wife. His wife needs to talk to him. Contact OMW so she can have the same conversation. 

It's unfair your wife is burdened with this while Mr. Fancy Pants meets women with fake biz trips everywhere because no one wants to call her.

What if it was the opposite. You are in the dark, His wife knows but won't contact you... WTF... Do the right thing. If it's nothing, fine. If it's something, she will be extremely thankful as you would if she contacted you. Please play Chess now.


----------



## sidney2718

Windwalker said:


> Actually it should read.
> 
> No, it would be:
> "my wife had lunch with a former *FVCK BUDDY that never really cut ties* while on a business trip despite the objections of her husband."
> 
> So what exactly did they have in common? I mean other than the sex?


If the OP and wife live in the US, the odds are that their state is a no-fault divorce state. In that case no reason need be given to the judge or anyone else.

It is that simple.


----------



## sidney2718

Caribbean Man said:


> Good that this entire episode has served as a wake up call to you.
> Good to see that your wife understands your concerns and isn't calling you insecure or a control freak.
> Marriage takes work.
> 
> In the meantime , you can read some very good books suggested here in this thread and make sure that your marriage has good , sound boundaries which both of you agree on and respect.
> 
> Best wishes on your marriage.
> 
> One more thing, never be afraid to raise your concerns about your perception of issues within your marriage ,with your wife.


One thing that's important is more romance. Send her flowers once in a while. Go watch a sunset. Little random acts of kindness go a long way toward rewarding her for being honest and above board.

And I suspect she'll love you for it.


----------



## sidney2718

carguy129 said:


> I agree. I don't think that was intentional on her part but it certainly appeals to our base instinct. Kind of like if some guy grabbed her ass in a bar and kicked the crap out of him. That would be low brow behaviour on my part and my wife would likely not be overtly happy about and would probably give me **** but I bet you it would damn sure make her feel protected and wanted.


Agreed. But remember that there is a fine line between feeling protected and wanted and feeling owned. You don't want her to feel owned. She's a mature woman living her life who *chose* to spend it with you.


----------



## sidney2718

carguy129 said:


> I would not go that far. I do need to put some trust in my wife. If she says she is not going, then I need to trust her at her word. If there is no trust in a marriage, it is done for. Maybe I get hurt by something happening in the future but if I have zero trust in her then I may as well leave now. If she goes to meet this guy and I find out, then yes, our marriage is likely over but I do not get a gut feeling that she is out to betray me here. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Our marriage is not perfect and over the years, there have been times when I thought, this is done. Hell, I was even on ****** ******* at one point (I know that is opening a whole new can of worms but nothing came of it) but that is not how I feel now. In fact, this matter may have sparked a renewal in our marriage where we start to communicate better and show more appreciation for each other. A little jealousy may have been what I needed as a wake up call.
> 
> I know this. If I left my wife, guys would be lining up to take my place before the sun set.


You are absolutely right. Don't let the horribly wounded talk you into doing anything stupid. Marriages are built on trust not on spying. Wives are not property. The husband's word is not law. A marriage is a contract between two consenting adults who need to be treated like adults.

That said, a little additional romance as a reward can't hurt either.


----------



## sidney2718

carguy129 said:


> That's funny. This website blocked the name of the website I typed. The dating website for married people.


Not an accident. Think about it. TAM's attitude is that marriages are to be saved if possible. That other place is in some ways the enemy.


----------



## Q tip

bandit.45 said:


> You're wife may be honest and honestly did not know what she was getting into.
> 
> Or she might be a cooler customer than you think and she may try to keep things going with the OM by taking it underground.
> 
> Here is the deal, you haven't really looked into all the communications they have had. You have not really snooped to see the extent of their correspondences. I think you need to install a key logger on her computer to see if she is e-mailing him, and also a VAR under the front seat of her car to see if she is talking to him.
> 
> The best outcome is you find nothing, but the money and time invested is worth the peace of mind you would be getting.


I know she knows exactly what she is getting into. She already has with him. Now it's lattes and sports talk? The guy has no class. He insults OP and his wife.

OP keep in mind zero actions have taken place. Words only. Own this like you have testosterone. You can't nice yourself a happy ending. 

Your W may have brought this MEETING up AND inferS coffee to see if you'll bite. Plausible meeting you already approved. If something happens, well, it just happened. LIKE LAST TIME... except now she's married. This is a planned reunion. Union of what...?


----------



## sidney2718

changedbeliefs said:


> Don't contact the other guy, or his wife, what a childish suggestion. If you don't want your wife to see, or do anything with, this guy, then you tell her exactly how you feel, yourself. I suggest you cut right through the crap, with something like this:
> 
> "I know you probably are attracted to him, enjoy his company and would like to be with him physically. However, you're married, I forbid it, you're mine." In essence, that's what this comes down to.


I'm against the end of that. She is NOT his property. An attitude like that will get a guy divorced fairly quickly.


----------



## sidney2718

bandit.45 said:


> He can snoop and verify without accusing his wife or being a d!ck. She doesn't need to know he is doing this. If he finds nothing, then he can rest easy and spend his time figuring out how to make their sex life more frequent and exciting.


How about doing the last bit first. The problem with snooping is that if it is discovered, the wife loses trust in the husband...


----------



## michzz

carguy129 said:


> I would not go that far.* I do need to put some trust in my wife. If she says she is not going, then I need to trust her at her word. If there is no trust in a marriage, it is done for.* Maybe I get hurt by something happening in the future but if I have zero trust in her then I may as well leave now. .


Don't confuse blind trust with trust.

You have legitimate reason to wonder what is going on.

She seems to have complied with your wishes.

Key part to this. She is complying with your wishes, at least appears to be.

Is it what she wants to do? I doubt it. Her first interest was as she told you.

I hope she reins that impulse in and discards it.

For your sake.

Don't confuse you need to trust her with her actually being trustworthy.

I would still monitor the situation if I were you.


----------



## Q tip

sidney2718 said:


> How about doing the last bit first. The problem with snooping is that if it is discovered, the wife loses trust in the husband...


No, so to clarify. *Privacy VS Secrecy*

Secrecy - There is no secrecy in marriage. Complete access of the couple's stuff. Passwords, emails, phones, iPads, tablets. pCs. All should be fully accessible to both.

Privacy - using the toilet, sometimes not even that either. 

Feel free to snoop. It goes both ways. You're married now. That's how it is at my place. Complete access. Passwords. Everything. That's what's called trust. Catch me if you can is not trust.


----------



## Windwalker

sidney2718 said:


> If the OP and wife live in the US, the odds are that their state is a no-fault divorce state. In that case no reason need be given to the judge or anyone else.
> 
> It is that simple.


Yes, you are right. In that instance it does not matter.

In the court of her husbands mind is where it matters. That's why a person should have boundaries that are clear and specific. That way when one spouse/SO crosses the boundaries there are clear and obvious consequences to those actions.


You cheat and I have the door locks changed and your crap on the curb.

It is that simple.


----------



## Mostlycontent

sidney2718 said:


> I'm against the end of that. She is NOT his property. An attitude like that will get a guy divorced fairly quickly.


I've definitely referred to my wife as being "mine" or belonging to me". She seems to like it and has even commented that she likes belonging to me. 

Now I don't treat her like property but there is a real sense of ownership in marriage and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. My wife belongs to me and is protected by me in the same way my children are. I see nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Theseus

bandit.45 said:


> Here is the deal, you haven't really looked into all the communications they have had. You have not really snooped to see the extent of their correspondences. I think you need to install a key logger on her computer to see if she is e-mailing him, and also a VAR under the front seat of her car to see if she is talking to him.
> 
> The best outcome is you find nothing, but the money and time invested is worth the peace of mind you would be getting.



Oh, this is ridiculous, why not insist on a polygraph while you are at it?

This isn't a woman who has had an affair. The OP said she hasn't done anything to make him suspicious. So the above advice is only going to damage their relationship. 

Too many people on TAM automatically assume cheating is going on, and push for the most dramatic response possible.


----------



## bandit.45

Theseus said:


> Oh, this is ridiculous, why not insist on a polygraph while you are at it?
> 
> This isn't a woman who has had an affair. The OP said she hasn't done anything to make him suspicious. So the above advice is only going to damage their relationship.
> 
> Too many people on TAM automatically assume cheating is going on, and push for the most dramatic response possible.


Okay. 

OP, ask your wife to submit to a polygraph.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

sidney2718 said:


> How about doing the last bit first. The problem with snooping is that if it is discovered, the wife loses trust in the husband...


I'd want to know if I was sexually fulfilling a cheater first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2

I think the only thing I would want to talk about is why she didn't clearly shut him down when he reached out multiple times wanting to talk to her on the phone.

I can understand not wanting to be rude. A lot of people fall into the belief that to say anything at all makes them inappropriately rude because who knows, the guy might be completely innocent in heart. It can be interpreted a different way though. Establishing your own boundaries, eg., stating that you don't feel it right to engage in conversations with opposite sex friends especially those with whom you've had a romantic relationship with or had feelings for in the past. It isnt good for married people. Your husband/wife would have to be included in everything and it would probably be awkward and unsatisfying. So while you appreciate then reaching out, you'd really prefer not to continue chatting. You wish them well. 

I did that with an old boyfriend when I got serious with my now husband and he respected the request for the most part. Hr touched base every now and then after that but in very generic ways - nothing personal. Generic informational emails where I was copied amongst others. That stopped and I found out recently it is because he died! Ack! 

A guy that wouldn't respect such a request or one that would be offended is a guy you'd have to conclude was up to no good. And if he was truly interested just as a friend he would respect your desire to hold your marriage above all else without healing on any guilt.


----------



## Headspin

Trouble is as betrayed we can only see the end of it all when it went wrong so our advice will be colored by that experience 

I have been where this guy was and I gave it the "yeah what was I thinking, she loves me, trusts me surely I have to do the same" but actually not having that boundary gave her the green light and she lied deceived under my nose because of my naivety and trust 

This naivety bit is the danger "Oh woe is me and I simply did not realize how much this might hurt "

That's the bit I learned was just complete nonsense. At the end of my time with vstbxw I asked her if the "tables had been turned what she would have done or thought"? 

" I'd never have let you out of my sight if you did that to ME"!:scratchhead:

enough said

How is it they don't 'get it' don't 'understand it' ??

Truth imo is that they do and now I'd be as vigilant as hell tell OM wife 

How come I am not so 'naive' !!? .........mmmm

Lets face it if it is all innocent none of the participating parties will have a problem with it will they


----------



## Omego

bandit.45 said:


> You need to talk to the other man's wife and ask her if she even knew he was planning on meeting with your wife.
> 
> Bet you she did not.


Oh, I'm sure she did not. I don't know a single woman, including me, who would tolerate that kind of thing. I feel for the guy's wife. She probably has no clue that he's been keeping up this kind of contact.... 

I must admit that it's strange that she maintains the contact. An ex of mine tried this right before I got married (second time) and I had to just shut him down. I wouldn't like my H to do that to me, so why would I do it to him?

These kinds of threads really resonate with me. Way back in the day, when I was young, I remember being head over heels with a guy who constantly talked about his ex. Luckily I didn't stay with him for long, but even that short experience was very painful. And then after I left, I received a letter from him saying I was the most wonderful girl he had ever met... Go figure....

I like clear situations. If you need to be in contact with ex's you're probably not married to the right person.... No one deserves to be plan B.


----------



## weightlifter

Carguy.

Keep your eyes open and your mouth shut. Look for those little subtle changes and if you start seeing them go 007 on her. Just be vigilant.

This guy may be a player (or not. I dont get the feeling either way on this guy.) But some of these clowns will probe for months or years... The reason they are willing to probe is they are probing MANY women at the same time. Looking for the day you have a fight, forget her birthday...


----------



## carguy129

Theseus said:


> Oh, this is ridiculous, why not insist on a polygraph while you are at it?
> 
> This isn't a woman who has had an affair. The OP said she hasn't done anything to make him suspicious. So the above advice is only going to damage their relationship.
> 
> Too many people on TAM automatically assume cheating is going on, and push for the most dramatic response possible.


I agree. I still do not believe my wife had intentions of hooking up again. She probably did like the attention and the flattery (I think that is a word) - don't we all? Still though, as I said, it was inappropriate but it has been addressed. Doesn't mean I like it and no I won't forget it or turn a blind eye to it. I think our marriage is coming around after being at a low a few years back but we still have a long way to go. I have done inappropriate things in the past as well. It is just that my wife was not aware.


----------



## treyvion

weightlifter said:


> Carguy.
> 
> Keep your eyes open and your mouth shut. Look for those little subtle changes and if you start seeing them go 007 on her. Just be vigilant.
> 
> This guy may be a player (or not. I dont get the feeling either way on this guy.) But some of these clowns will probe for months or years... The reason they are willing to probe is they are probing MANY women at the same time. Looking for the day you have a fight, forget her birthday...


Their not clowns. This is how they get their sex.


----------



## Q tip

:rofl:


bandit.45 said:


> Okay.
> 
> OP, ask your wife to submit to a polygraph.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:
:lol:


----------



## bandit.45

carguy129 said:


> I agree. I still do not believe my wife had intentions of hooking up again. She probably did like the attention and the flattery (I think that is a word) - don't we all? Still though, as I said, it was inappropriate but it has been addressed. Doesn't mean I like it and no I won't forget it or turn a blind eye to it. I think our marriage is coming around after being at a low a few years back but we still have a long way to go. I have done inappropriate things in the past as well. It is just that my wife was not aware.


Saturday morning, after you two get up, make her coffee....maybe even a nice breakfast. Cuddle on the couch and with a notepad and pen clearly right out a list of boundaries for your behavior towards each other and others. Lay out very clearly your expectations with clearly defined rules for your marriage. Number them. 

If contacting or responding to messages from old flames or lovers is a no no, then make that a rule. Come up with the rules together. Then when you are both done, sign it like a contract.

Your wife will appreciate you taking the lead and being proactive towards safeguarding the marriage. I bet you'll even get laid afterwards.


----------



## Cynthia

bandit.45 said:


> Saturday morning, after you two get up, make her coffee....maybe even a nice breakfast. Cuddle on the couch and with a notepad and pen clearly right out a list of boundaries for your behavior towards each other and others. Lay out very clearly your expectations with clearly defined rules for your marriage. Number them.
> 
> If contacting or responding to messages from old flames or lovers is a no no, then make that a rule. Come up with the rules together. Then when you are both done, sign it like a contract.
> 
> Your wife will appreciate you taking the lead and being proactive towards safeguarding the marriage. I bet you'll even get laid afterwards.


This could be phrased as a re-commitment to each other.


----------



## sidney2718

Mostlycontent said:


> I've definitely referred to my wife as being "mine" or belonging to me". She seems to like it and has even commented that she likes belonging to me.
> 
> Now I don't treat her like property but there is a real sense of ownership in marriage and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. My wife belongs to me and is protected by me in the same way my children are. I see nothing wrong with that.


I understand what you are saying. I'd prefer to say that my wife and I own each other. I do not have the right to order her around. And I certainly would't do the "ownership" bit in front of anyone else.


----------



## Cynthia

There is a difference between owning and belonging, but they sound the same. In ownership, one belongs to another as property. In belonging, they belong together. A husband and wife belong together. Children belong with their families. Our sense of belonging is very important to our sense of security, but it not the same as owning each other.


----------



## Q tip

CynthiaDe said:


> There is a difference between owning and belonging, but they sound the same. In ownership, one belongs to another as property. In belonging, they belong together. A husband and wife belong together. Children belong with their families. Our sense of belonging is very important to our sense of security, but it not the same as owning each other.


Well, if after all this banter and advice, OP takes no action, they meet and they do the deed, who owns who...?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Lila said:


> Carguy,
> 
> . * However, I will add that in an attempt for transparency and honesty, that you reveal to your wife the "inappropriate things" you did in the past (i.e. seeking an affair partner on AM). This is one of the boundaries that should be included in your agreement - no seeking EA online.*


:iagree:

This entire episode can open the way for more respect and better transparency in their marriage.

There are a few opportunities here that can be exploited to improve the relationship between them.


----------



## devotion

I am going to give the wife some credit. She was just clueless that most guys just want sex -- and I'm a guy so yes, I'm impugning my gender. My GF's ex would text her happy birthday and send messages on Facebook; she never responded to them. Maybe they were innocent, maybe not. But she is starting to believe that there is a chance that if the door is opened that more could happen, so why even open that door? That's an ex for a reason. She also knows I trust her, I don't trust him. End of story. 

I believe the OP's wife at this point and I think the OP didn't really clearly state his concerns before. Now that he did his wife seems to be taking the right steps without fighting, so its time to have some trust. Yes, be a little wary. 

Also, in my opinion he owes nothing to the other man's wife -- that's not his problem and it will just get complicated. That's their problem; his wife's ex should not be in either of their life, period. 

I was cheated on by my ex-wife so maybe I should be bitter and more suspicious, but I don't want to live that life. I want to trust my GF and I want the OP to trust his wife. Good luck and keep the open communication channels open. And yes, it seems like the OP made some mistakes too, so its time to correct the ship and feel like you did early on in the relationship.


----------



## manfromlamancha

We haven't heard from carguy for some time now. Carguy, are you still around ? How did this play out in the end ?


----------



## jorgegene

carguy129 said:


> I would not go that far. I do need to put some trust in my wife. If she says she is not going, then I need to trust her at her word. If there is no trust in a marriage, it is done for. Maybe I get hurt by something happening in the future but if I have zero trust in her then I may as well leave now. If she goes to meet this guy and I find out, then yes, our marriage is likely over but I do not get a gut feeling that she is out to betray me here. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Our marriage is not perfect and over the years, there have been times when I thought, this is done. Hell, I was even on ****** ******* at one point (I know that is opening a whole new can of worms but nothing came of it) but that is not how I feel now. In fact, this matter may have sparked a renewal in our marriage where we start to communicate better and show more appreciation for each other. A little jealousy may have been what I needed as a wake up call.
> 
> I know this. If I left my wife, guys would be lining up to take my place before the sun set.


The point some people here are trying to make (i think) is that it is ok to put a certain trust in your wife and be optimistic about her intentions. At the same time, the point of being vigilant and quietly monitoring her activities (at least to a degree) is to make sure you are not living a lie.

And find out months or years from now rather than now.


----------



## Q tip

devotion said:


> I am going to give the wife some credit. She was just clueless that most guys just want sex -- and I'm a guy so yes, I'm impugning my gender. My GF's ex would text her happy birthday and send messages on Facebook; she never responded to them. Maybe they were innocent, maybe not. But she is starting to believe that there is a chance that if the door is opened that more could happen, so why even open that door? That's an ex for a reason. She also knows I trust her, I don't trust him. End of story.
> 
> I believe the OP's wife at this point and I think the OP didn't really clearly state his concerns before. Now that he did his wife seems to be taking the right steps without fighting, so its time to have some trust. Yes, be a little wary.
> 
> Also, in my opinion he owes nothing to the other man's wife -- that's not his problem and it will just get complicated. That's their problem; his wife's ex should not be in either of their life, period.
> 
> I was cheated on by my ex-wife so maybe I should be bitter and more suspicious, but I don't want to live that life. I want to trust my GF and I want the OP to trust his wife. Good luck and keep the open communication channels open. And yes, it seems like the OP made some mistakes too, so its time to correct the ship and feel like you did early on in the relationship.


Excellent. I agree. 

Keep in mind these two are not X-anything. Just two ships bumping twice (at least) in a week (so she says). He needs to avoid the obvious iceberg in their marriage. 

Simple to avoid, we are simply advising him NOT to go full steam ahead. Anything else will work just fine. But, he does not need to put it in reverse, that would be extreme.


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## Q tip

carguy129 said:


> I agree. I still do not believe my wife had intentions of hooking up again. She probably did like the attention and the flattery (I think that is a word) - don't we all? Still though, as I said, it was inappropriate but it has been addressed. Doesn't mean I like it and no I won't forget it or turn a blind eye to it. I think our marriage is coming around after being at a low a few years back but we still have a long way to go. I have done inappropriate things in the past as well. It is just that my wife was not aware.


A PUA is also aware that flattery can and will get him everywhere. It's just one of many stepping stones to the prize.

Good she's communicating. It seems to be following PhillyGuy13s story. Hopefully she is in permanent No Contact with him. If not, you are way behind, sir.

Remember, she had no intentions of hooking the first time around. But did. He's been hovering ever since.


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## treyvion

Q tip said:


> A PUA is also aware that flattery can and will get him everywhere. It's just one of many stepping stones to the prize.
> 
> Good she's communicating. It seems to be following PhillyGuy13s story. Hopefully she is in permanent No Contact with him. If not, you are way behind, sir.


True, unfortunately while we like to be honest. Some of the social wizard of the oz structures it would be wiser to adhere to.

Flattery in the right amount of doses, some popularity crap, a bit of massaging of the truth. You can still be forthright and with good intention for the most part tho, but social graces and style will help!


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## Q tip

intheory said:


> You lost me here, sorry.


Really. You've never been walked in on in the toilet while on your throne?


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## Q tip

intheory said:


> Not in recent memory, no. I shut the door and press the lock button by rote.
> 
> But it's more the idea that there is so little trust remaining in the marriage that your spouse feels that they cannot *allow* you bathroom privacy.
> 
> That's pretty bad.


Nothing of the kind happened. :scratchhead: I was making an example of differences between privacy and secrecy for the folks. Some may confuse this in terms of electronic devices as if they have a right to secrecy in marriage.


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## Q tip

Carguy,

- is wife in NC permanently. Zero tolerance for anything else.

- have you contacted OMW

- what actions (now words) have been taken

- is the trip still on


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## GusPolinski

Pretty sure that a) she went on the trip and b) she's already back home.


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## carguy129

Lila said:


> At this point I think Carguy should worry more about his wife's reaction to his AM account than anything else. For those not familiar, AM is a website specifically targeting married people seeking adulterous affairs. Carguy admitted to setting up a profile on it when things were rocky in their relationship.
> 
> I find it surprising that many have branded the wife a cheater, even though she's done nothing to suggest she is, but no one has said a damn thing to carguy about his AM account!
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Yes. We were in a bad place. Nothing came of it (AM site) and I would not do it again. If our marriage got to that place again, I think it would probably be over. Plus, now, we are more motivated for it to not get that way again.


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## carguy129

GusPolinski said:


> Pretty sure that a) she went on the trip and b) she's already back home.


My wife gets home tomorrow. btw. She talked to her friend that was on the trip (the one 20 years ago when she met the guy) with her and her friend sided with me. Not that my wife didn't think she wouldn't now that my wife has her blinders off.


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## carguy129

devotion said:


> I am going to give the wife some credit. *She was just clueless that most guys just want sex *-- and I'm a guy so yes, I'm impugning my gender. My GF's ex would text her happy birthday and send messages on Facebook; she never responded to them. *Maybe they were innocent, maybe not.* But she is starting to believe that there is a chance that if the door is opened that more could happen, so why even open that door? That's an ex for a reason. She also knows I trust her, I don't trust him. End of story.
> 
> I believe the OP's wife at this point and I think the OP didn't really clearly state his concerns before. Now that he did his wife seems to be taking the right steps without fighting, so its time to have some trust. Yes, be a little wary.
> 
> Also, in my opinion he owes nothing to the other man's wife -- that's not his problem and it will just get complicated. That's their problem; his wife's ex should not be in either of their life, period.
> 
> I was cheated on by my ex-wife so maybe I should be bitter and more suspicious, but I don't want to live that life. I want to trust my GF and I want the OP to trust his wife. Good luck and keep the open communication channels open. And yes, it seems like the OP made some mistakes too, so its time to correct the ship and feel like you did early on in the relationship.


 I bolded two sentences above that really apply. Also, I will not be contacting the other guys wife. A said above, that is their marriage - maybe she it totally fine with it. I just want the contact to end and move on. This whole scenario has turned out to be a good thing. It brought out feelings in me I had not felt before and really made me realize how much I love my wife nad want to be with her.


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## carguy129

manfromlamancha said:


> We haven't heard from carguy for some time now. Carguy, are you still around ? How did this play out in the end ?


My wife gets home tomorrow and we will talk again. No meeting happened.


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## bandit.45

carguy129 said:


> My wife gets home tomorrow and we will talk again. No meeting happened.


Excellent. I suggest you buy a dozen roses to greet her when she comes home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Lets just take this one at face value. One of our rare wins here on TAM.

He got the proverbial shot across the bow. They have both altered course. Boundaries have been rebuilt and connections deepened.


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## devotion

carguy129 said:


> I bolded two sentences above that really apply. Also, I will not be contacting the other guys wife. A said above, that is their marriage - maybe she it totally fine with it. I just want the contact to end and move on. This whole scenario has turned out to be a good thing. It brought out feelings in me I had not felt before and really made me realize how much I love my wife nad want to be with her.


Thanks carguy, I told my girlfriend this story as a nice story with a happy ending. Because you guys communicated. And my girlfriend had the same blinders about talking with someone she's slept with but also believes me now that nothing good comes from talking with someone in the past like that. 

Good luck and I hope your relationship is stronger from now on!


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## Q tip

I'm happy and relieved no meeting occurred. Any third party to confirm? Yah, I know. Trust, but still there's then verify part.


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## weightlifter

Q tip said:


> I'm happy and relieved no meeting occurred. Any third party to confirm? Yah, I know. Trust, but still there's then verify part.


I always will think all clear... Then Wrangler happened this week.


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## tom67

weightlifter said:


> I always will think all clear... Then Wrangler happened this week.


Exactly
Sheesh!


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## Malaise

carguy129 said:


> *I bolded two sentences above that really apply.* Also, I will not be contacting the other guys wife. A said above, that is their marriage - maybe she it totally fine with it. I just want the contact to end and move on. This whole scenario has turned out to be a good thing. It brought out feelings in me I had not felt before and really made me realize how much I love my wife nad want to be with her.


But, isn't that all he wanted from their original hookup? Why should she think he wanted anything else?

It's not as if they were life long friends. They were f-buddies, that's all.


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## Decorum

How is it going Carguy?


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