# Sexual Attr. or Respect?



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

More respect! Without respect, there is no sexual attraction.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think respect will lead to sexual attraction. Sexual attraction on its own can burn out quickly without respect.

Earn her respect (her trust).


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Sexual attraction is usually a cut and dry feeling, either you are or not attracted to someone, but respect has to be earned and maintained. You can earn someone's respect with your actions but if they are not sexually attracted to you then there is not much you can do.

But in saying that there is so much more to sexually attraction that's just the physical. Whether you respect someone has a play in that as well. I myself need both from my spouse, I need to be respected and have him find me sexually attractive.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Both in equal parts.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?


That's a good question. However, I'm not sure if it can be answered. After all, you can have great sexual attraction for a very sexy mate who has little or no integrity, and much respect for someone you are not sexually attracted to. On the one hand, you might be having a great sex life with someone who is cheating on you, and on the other, you might be treated like gold by a respected billionaire who you find gross.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> Both in equal parts.


I think you're correct. You can't have one without the other if you want to be in a healthy and happy relationship.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Daisy12 said:


> Sexual attraction is usually a cut and dry feeling, either you are or not attracted to someone, but respect has to be earned and maintained. You can earn someone's respect with your actions but if they are not sexually attracted to you then there is not much you can do.


I hear what you are saying. The first time my husband and I saw each other, there was instant physical/sexual attraction.

But without the other things to back that up, the raw attraction would not have mattered.



> But in saying that there is so much more to sexually attraction that's just the physical. Whether you respect someone has a play in that as well. I myself need both from my spouse, *I need to *be respected and *have him find me sexually attractive*.


I was a bit surprised to see this, as I would not think to say this. But I am guessing this comes from your husband's having used porn in the past?


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

jld said:


> I hear what you are saying. The first time my husband and I saw each other, there was instant physical/sexual attraction.
> 
> But without the other things to back that up, the raw attraction would not have mattered.
> 
> ...


You are right this probably does come from the porn issue. Before I never had to question whether he found me attractive, but after finding out about the porn and lies I have started to question a lot of things I never gave much thought about. It has completely changed our marriage and rewritten our history. We have to start from scratch and create a new marriage, one that works on both sides...it's not easy.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Daisy12 said:


> You are right this probably does come from the porn issue. Before I never had to question whether he found me attractive, but after finding out about the porn and lies I have started to question a lot of things I never gave much thought about. It has completely changed our marriage and rewritten our history. We have to start from scratch and create a new marriage, one that works on both sides...it's not easy.


Please do not question *yourself,* Daisy.

I would definitely question his worth, though.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> That's a good question. However, I'm not sure if it can be answered. After all, you can have great sexual attraction for a very sexy mate who has little or no integrity, and much respect for someone you are not sexually attracted to. On the one hand, you might be having a great sex life with someone who is cheating on you, and on the other, you might be treated like gold by a respected billionaire who you find gross.


I don't think we can know what will happen. We can make educated guesses about how things might turn out. I think that's all anyone does. 

I think respect must be earned and maintained over a lifetime. I know I can't help who I am attracted to. I have a tough time building that attraction from nothing, but respect can increase or rather deepen my love and attraction for someone I am already attracted to. 

I think there has to be some respect there already, along with sexual desire. I've had relationships of both types. It was tough to grow in respect for one, even though I wanted her any time, any place she was wanting me for sex. 

I still don't respect her in the manner that she deserves. I still find her sexually attractive, no matter what has transpired.

I've respected more than desired one woman. My level of attraction increased, but in a more maturing type of way. I didn't desire her for wild sex, but for sex, yes. While the other, I desired for whatever in sex, though I could not care less what she talked about. 

Abby Normal?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Which is more important, food or water?


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't think we can know what will happen. We can make educated guesses about how things might turn out. I think that's all anyone does.
> 
> I think respect must be earned and maintained over a lifetime. I know I can't help who I am attracted to. I have a tough time building that attraction from nothing, but respect can increase or rather deepen my love and attraction for someone I am already attracted to.
> 
> ...


If I understand your response correctly, I don't think it's abby normal at all. 

I think if you respect a woman and have some sort of sexual attraction towards her, you're in a 100% better place then if you have a strong sexual attraction towards a woman and little respect for her. That's the winning place to be.

Case in point: I used to have a very strong sexual attraction towards a woman who would put out any time and any place. However, I had little respect for her. That's not what I wanted! She lacked education and sophistication. Yet, she was incredibly sexy! That's just asking for trouble. 

Remember the movie Casino and Robert De Niro's character Sam (Ace) Rothstein? He married a hooker named Ginger played by Sharron Stone. Sure, he was sexually attracted to her, but did he have respect for her? Look how it ended. After her short lived facade of high class pleasantries she went right back to being the low class hooker she always was.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I've respected more than desired one woman. My level of attraction increased, but in a more maturing type of way.


This seems reasonable. How did that relationship turn out?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Which is more important, food or water?


Water.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> This seems reasonable. How did that relationship turn out?


She thought I didn't desire her and dumped me. I always kind of thought that women liked to be sexually desired? Don't most or many or whatever is pc, really want to be looked at by their SO, at times, like they are the only woman in the world for them? Maybe I'm misreading some posts or just misunderstanding? 

I do know that listening is important, too, or it won't last. 

I sort of feel like it's a situation based answer.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> She thought I didn't desire her and dumped me. I always kind of thought that women liked to be sexually desired? Don't most or many or whatever is pc, really want to be looked at by their SO, at times, like they are the only woman in the world for them?


You know, that is a good question. Some women on here say that. Some have said they want power over men. And some say that women always have power over men. 

I think they say that last one because *they* have always had power over men.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?


*IMHO, it takes the perfect combination of both! And this applies to the both of us!

For me to ever be able to laciviously desire her lovely body, I also have to be into her intelligence!*


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

My book it's respect. If I don't respect a woman I am with I couldn't have her as a significant other. I learned this first hand after my x wife cheated. She was still the same woman who prior to that moment I thought was a 10 out of 10 scale. But after D day I found , and still do , nothing physically attractive about her at all. This is tied to the fact I have zero respect for her.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> Both in equal parts.


I agree, and it has to be mutual. No matter how sexually attracted I am to someone, it will never become physical if there is no mutual respect.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Ideally, I agree that it is best to have equal amounts of respect and attraction. I agree that it is also ideal for both partners to have equal amounts of each for the other. Don't know if that makes any sense. 

Anyway, I don't know how anyone could truly know since we keep those things within us, in part. Actions are the only way. It's too easy to learn what makes our partner feel respected and to do those things for manipulation purposes. So, I'm a bit skeptical. 

With attraction, it's pretty clear when a man can't perform, or a woman just lies there. 

Anyone have a clue how to be more certain of another's feelings?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I had great respect for my second wife. I had less attraction than respect.

It didn't work out well. Sometimes, I didn't think about sex.

I had great attraction for my first wife. I had little respect. I still could perform in the bedroom. In fact, that lack of total respect might have allowed me to be more free with my fantasies. 

Is that weird? Isn't that the same as those who experiment with their sex life while single and having "fun"? That's sort of how I took it. 

When married, the respect for their partner was so important, they didn't want to do some of those things they might with another. They didn't want to turn their spouse away, yet the man the don't really respect, but find attractive, could possibly get the kinkier stuff? 

Don't know. I'm asking. 

Seems like we want one thing in single life and another in married? I'm getting more confused. Sorry.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that if my wife didn't respect me, she wouldn't be attracted to me.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Sorry, I know they are tough questions. I know what I posted was controversial. I don't know everything. I just have to state it the only way I know how. It may be TMI or it may make folks afraid to answer. I don't mean for it to be that way. I just want to figure these things out.

I'm confused and a little afraid. That's why I started this thread. I don't want to make any major mistakes. I can't afford the pain any more. Thanks for the replies.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

In my experience, men can f*ck anything, but only treat a woman with respect if they grow feelings. So who knows. 


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

xMadame said:


> In my experience, men can f*ck anything, but only treat a woman with respect if they grow feelings. So who knows.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry for you experiences. I'm not, nor have ever been one of those. Most here probably don't believe me, but it's true. There are few women I know that I'd care to get that physically intimate with. Maybe I'm an anomaly? So be it.

I wasn't taught to only show respect for women I feel something for, but I'm sure I've been disrespectful at times to women and men. I'm only human, after all. I can respect some things, but others, I cannot. It's best for me to just stay clear of those men or women I don't respect. I do that as well as I can. 

It's obvious to me that you probably don't respect those men who do not respect you. Wouldn't that be doing the same thing you criticize? I'm not blaming you, but trying to get you to see that we can't respect everyone. We can only try. 

I'm pretty much the same.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

xMadame said:


> In my experience, men can f*ck anything, but only treat a woman with respect if they grow feelings. So who knows.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




You have had bad experiences with men then.

I can look at a women as a physical object who I don't respect and I suppose I could masturbate to her. That's how I sum up porn. But if I met that same woman in real life I would see her beautify yet feel no attraction and would NEVER be interested in interacting with her in any way.

I guess like enjoying the Borne movies and the character but seeing the actor? I wouldn't see them as the same thing. (I imagine the actor would be gracious in person and therefore likable so I might like him.)

In my experience, most men would not fvck a woman they don't respect. In fact I only know of one guy at work who is in the "fvck anything with 2 legs" camp and I don't respect him as a result.

So for me - I'm with @MrsHolland - they go hand in hand.

But I'm in a higher income environment and I frankly think higher income folks for some reason earn more and fvck less. I don't understand the correlation but believe it's there.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Probably because it's not that easy to do either...earn a great deal of money or screw a pile of women. So, a choice must be made to either place most of your day's hours into learning to earn more or screw more. You can do more with money, and the more you earn, the more choices of women you will have, so, why not learn how to earn? That's the way I see it, even though I am poor.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Probably because it's not that easy to do either...earn a great deal of money or screw a pile of women. So, a choice must be made to either place most of your day's hours into learning to earn more or screw more. *You can do more with money* and the more you earn, the more choices of women you will have, so, why not learn how to earn? That's the way I see it, even though I am poor.


Totally agree with the bolded. Money brings a lot of freedom.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You have had bad experiences with men then.
> 
> I can look at a women as a physical object who I don't respect and I suppose I could masturbate to her. That's how I sum up porn. But if I met that same woman in real life I would see her beautify yet feel no attraction and would NEVER be interested in interacting with her in any way.
> 
> ...


With respect you are very wrong.I am in a long term relationship but up until then I would sleep with any attractive woman.That was the only rule,she had to be attractive.And I had lots of one night stands.I didn't give a damn whether she was smart or dumb.I would be in the top one percent of the income bracket and I know plenty of guys who are the same.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

One night stands... respect need not apply. It's solely about the physical attraction. 

In marriage... wives don't have sex with husbands they don't respect. 

Physical attraction is a huge part of why men marry a woman. That is not necessarily so for women. Yes, women want to marry the guy who makes them weak-kneed and swoon. But, they will marry a man with whom they have no physical attraction. The thing is, most men (8/10) are clueless about this fact.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Stack said:


> One night stands... respect need not apply. It's solely about the physical attraction.
> 
> In marriage... wives don't have sex with husbands they don't respect.
> 
> Physical attraction is a huge part of why men marry a woman. That is not necessarily so for women. Yes, women want to marry the guy who makes them weak-kneed and swoon. But, they will marry a man with whom they have no physical attraction. The thing is, most men (8/10) are clueless about this fact.


I wouldn't date nor marry someone I had no physical attraction to.. this would get very very old.. if I did... I would be tempted to look over the fence... 

I need both.. respect, physical attraction and may I add.. abounding trust.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Stack said:


> One night stands... respect need not apply. It's solely about the physical attraction.
> 
> In marriage... wives don't have sex with husbands they don't respect.
> 
> Physical attraction is a huge part of why men marry a woman. That is not necessarily so for women. Yes, women want to marry the guy who makes them weak-kneed and swoon. But, they will marry a man with whom they have no physical attraction. *The thing is, most men (8/10) are clueless about this fact*.


probably because it is not a fact.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?


I don't see how you can have attraction without respect.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't see how you can have *sexual* attraction without respect.


Fixed it for you. 

Some folks can't.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't see how you can have attraction without respect.


You can have instant sexual attraction for someone but it takes time to respect someone.If their is no initial attraction then the respect does not come into it.If the relationship lasts then respect of course is very important but if there is no sexual feelings then it is unimportant.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> You can have instant sexual attraction for someone but it takes time to respect someone.If their is no initial attraction then the respect does not come into it.If the relationship lasts then respect of course is very important but if there is no sexual feelings then it is unimportant.




Some can have instant sexual attraction. Me and many others - not so much. If you're saying one can find the features of another to their liking - of course, but that doesn't translate to sexual attraction without interaction and something more. Pretty / sexy men and women are a dime a dozen... meh... but I think of sexual attraction as involving some sort of pull - literally attraction - and I'm not pulled by physical presence alone. Many are like me.

But I also know of many like you who perhaps only need to see with your eyes to be sexually attracted.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> You can have instant sexual attraction for someone but it takes time to respect someone.If their is no initial attraction then the respect does not come into it.If the relationship lasts then respect of course is very important but if there is no sexual feelings then it is unimportant.




Furthering my prior post, perhaps it has more to do with what it takes to make yourself sexually available. If I'm sexually available, I require much less to be sexually attracted. But that's been over 30 years for me.

I'm not sexually available, and I'm very happy in my relationship. Therefore, even the most beautiful woman with an alluring smile, who walked gracefully in slow motion (everything is sexier in slo mo right  ), with a killer body, would only register a very long glance. I'm not dead after all. But I would feel no personal desire or pull at all. No desire to pursue. And my boundaries prevent me from establishing more of a connection which could lead to a sexual attraction.

It's been a great while since I've been a pursuer but it's not something you forget. It's an innate, hunter feeling. I can get that with my family - I'm very much the type to silently guard my family and am very aware of threats to my kids and dangers to my marriage.

Interesting topic though.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> Both in equal parts.


Why does it need to be one or the other?

I like chocolate and I like vanilla.

When I go to the ice cream store I order one scoop of chocolate and one scoop of vanilla ice cream.

I cannot sacrifice one for the other. I must have both to be happy.

Do not, do not ask me which one I like better.

If sex is chocolate and the rest is vanilla.......*and I am putting my own scoops on*.....where the hell did the vanilla go? It must be at the bottom of the cone.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

You folks are all making me think. Thanks for the responses.


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## hewasneverreallymine (Jan 3, 2017)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?




Respect in public and we don't want respect in bed lol pull her hair and slap her ass lol but be sure she gets pleasure and not have to do all the work ~Peace


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

What if you have neither?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

MrsHolland said:


> probably because it is not a fact.


There are always those who marry for money


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Depends on what you want? Do you want to control your spouse or be partners / equals? Do you want to share decision making or do you want them to be submissive to your desires?

In terms of overt stereotyping, I would think in general it is better for heterosexual women if their man respects them than if he finds her sexually attractive. And for heterosexual men, the opposite. YMMV.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Holdingontoit said:


> Depends on what you want? Do you want to control your spouse or be partners / equals?
> 
> So, by not respecting them, you are controlling them? Or, do you mean by having sexual attraction for them you are controlling them? I'm not following....at all. Please expand and explain. You may have a very valid pov that I am missing.
> 
> ...


I think the SIM area would disagree with your assertions. Remember, respect is earned. It would take not having sex with the object of your desires, time and togetherness to earn that respect. That's tough to do and not very progressive. 

However, it seems that is what you are suggesting, which is perplexing. 

I had respect for my second wife. I had more for her than any other person I knew. She earned it with her responses, her demeanor under pressure, her intelligence, her logic, her conclusions, her eagerness and, my mistake, her integrity. The last one was the one I made the most glaring mistake on. I don't care about the others or even that last one any more. 

However, I simply posted that for example, to show that we can have respect, and not find greater and greater attraction. We had a limited marital sex life. 

As I think I posted in this thread, my first wife was hotter, but I had little respect for her, though I have grown in respect for her over the years. My attraction for her was inexplicable and undeniable. 

I don't even know why my hormones go crazy when I am around her. I don't want her to be my wife. I don't want to have sex with her. She is married. However, I sure could if she wanted and we were both single. 

I still don't have the respect for her that I did for my second wife. 

Hope that helps you get the idea.

So, which is better?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I don't think it is so much a gender thing as a direction thing.

So maybe I would say it is always and everywhere a good thing that your spouse find you hot. It is not always and everywhere a good thing that you find your spouse hot. So it is more important that your spouse find you hot than that they respect you. And it is more important that you respect your spouse than that you find them hot.

Of course, it is best if both of you feel both about your spouse. But it doesn't always work out that way.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Holdingontoit said:


> I don't think it is so much a gender thing as a direction thing.
> 
> You mean a control thing? Like, who wants to be in control the most? Not sure what that means.
> 
> ...


I'm beginning to think you must have both or it won't work. I still haven't figured out why you are thinking this is a gender issue? I'm a male, so I would look at it from my perspective, not a woman's. I can't really understand a woman's perspective or read a woman's mind. And, I started the thread, so it would be tough to ask as if I was a woman. 

That only happens in movies.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I said at the top of my latest post that it is NOT a gender issue. What I meant by "direction" is whether you are the person who feels the feeling or the person on the receiving end of the feeling.

Of course if you want it to work well for both people, then both of them should both respect their spouse and find them hot. And if someone neither respects their spouse nor finds them hot, that marriage is doomed to unhappiness.

As for only having one but not the other, to me the worst is to find your partner hot but they do not find you hot. That stinks. Even if they respect you. Your partner finding you hot but you not finding them hot is for me better than the other way around.

I can only relate my experience. I started out finding my partner hot and respecting her. She respected me but did not find me hot. That was awful for me. Over time I lost respect for her (huge overspending) but was still hot for her (despite huge weight gain). Still awful for me. Now she has lost weight but I am old and tired and no longer hot for her. Much easier for me. So in my experience, what hurts is your partner not finding you hot. My not finding her hot has been far less painful. In fact, now that we stopped having sex, she is much happier with our relationship. Hence my focus on the importance of the inbound direction (how one's partner feels about one) rather than the outbound direction (how one feels about one's partner).


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I think that they tend to go hand in hand.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?


I made a note to reply to this...
A relationship is unlikely to work with only one or the other. But this wasn't your question. As to how much of each...This really depends. All I can say is that I believe that for a longterm success in a partnership (and this is just from personal experience and observations) sexual attraction plays a MUCH more important role for women than many men realise or many women might admit to and the reverse is true for men...That's another generalisation, but you really need a lot of both (ideally).


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks inmyprime. That was well thought out. I appreciate that. 


Well, I think, shh don't tell anyone, that women need to be wanted more than respected, and men need to be respected more than wanted. oops.......I'm gonna get in trouble for that one. Sorry folks. I don't mean to be a rotten mysoginist or however you spell it. I don't care.......

Also, I sort of came to that conclusion and others after I started this thread. I've been thinking plenty about it and the replies. 

I just have an issue with how much, like you said. I mean, women don't, oh boy, here I go again, generalizing....I'm so sorry....seem to like when a man is too clingy. Many men seem to get clingy when they love a woman. I think they want to protect her, but end up suffocating her. So, to counter that, it seems less respect for her is needed, so he wants her and wants to protect her, but isn't that worried, so he goes and does his thing until he wants some from her. 

In the mean time, he talks when she needs him and listens and empathizes with her. He helps her, but he doesn't spend as much time with her as she would like. Almost, but not quite. It doesn't bother him, either, cause he figures she can handle it. A bit of a lack of love and respect, in my opinion, causes that. 

I honestly don't know for sure, though. I'm still thinking aloud here, to some extent.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I think I meant it the other way around (that it might be more important for women to find their man sufficiently sexually attractive than either the men realise or the women will admit to...). Conventional wisdom teaches us otherwise, as you say, but we are all animals at the base of things...And men (I can only speak for myself) do need to respect a woman, more than "locker room" talks would imply for *long term success*. After all, even looks fade with time (some might argue that for women, they fade quicker, earlier).

For example, even "clinginess" can be forgiven if there is a lot of sexual attraction.
On the other hand (and I experienced it with my wife when she is PMSing heavily sometimes) no matter how amazing* my flirting skills, it bounces off of her, like water off the duck's back and only causes annoyance...So there is definitely no attraction at that moment (and very little respect and even less self-respect from my side, afterwards 

*"amazing", it turns out, is a very subjective term :smile2:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

There is an old saying, "the less you love them, the more they love you back". I always thought this can't be a healthy basis for a relationship, but I guess it is true for _some_ relationships.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

But, I do think respect must be there to make it work long-term. I just think, since respect is built over time, it will be, if the attraction is strong enough to keep the two together. 

Maybe her attraction is more important than I think, but those are all about chemicals and where I was coming from previously. If those are there and less respect for the woman, he will, over time, because he doesn't want to lose a woman who really turns him on, grow to respect her more and more, because of who she becomes and what he notices along the way. 

Eventually, as they get older, that attraction wanes a little and they see all the things they've gone through and accomplished, ideally.

Then, the respect replaces the attraction that has been lost. The physical figures don't matter. All they see is the woman or man they met when younger. It's in their eyes and in their touch. 

Anyway, I don't know. I'm just trying. 

I didn't realize what you were saying the first time. I was going along the lines of your third short post. I guess.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I agree with you. What you write about respect evolving and growing over the life of a relationship makes complete sense. (Whereas sexual attraction is maybe not quite as elastic but I think it can still grow: for example I feel that I find my wife more sexually attractive now that she is more mature, in her thirties, rather than when we first met, when we were in our teens, although I can't be sure as I was very attracted to her back then as well). I also think that I have more respect for her now although I also can't be sure whether this has maybe more something to do with me, rather than her.
Judging from the sample of one (our situation), I would say that both the attraction and respect grew more or less proportionally over time. We both matured and it may feel like we respect each other more (which we might do, I don't know).

I guess I took the question at face value, i.e. "what's more important *at the time when you meet/get together with a person*, sexual attraction or respect" rather than "what's more important *over the course of a relationship/marriage*, sexual attraction or respect".
(My bolds).
I was responding more to the first type of question but after reading the follow up posts, I see now what you meant and I don't see anything wrong with it.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> probably because it is not a fact.


Women will never admit many of them settle for a consolation prize... especially when they realize they won't qualify for "the one" and settle on marrying "the list" because he checks off most of the items: my parents like him, he's educated, he nice, he has a good job, he's taller... as so on.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Stack said:


> Women will never admit many of them settle for a consolation prize... especially when they realize they won't qualify for "the one" and settle on marrying "the list" because he checks off most of the items: my parents like him, he's educated, he nice, he has a good job, he's taller... as so on.


Yes some* men and women* may well do this, some, not many or most would be my guess. None of this is fact, it is speculation.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Stack said:


> Women will never admit many of them settle for a consolation prize... especially when they realize they won't qualify for "the one" and settle on marrying "the list" because he checks off most of the items: my parents like him, he's educated, he nice, he has a good job, he's taller... as so on.


...this list made me chuckle.

I think if I ever had a 'list' it'd be more along the lines of: he's been through sh!t that made him resilient, had a dysfunctional upbringing, knows what his values are... can cook.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I wouldn't date nor marry someone I had no physical attraction to.. this would get very very old.. if I did... I would be tempted to look over the fence...
> 
> I need both.. respect, physical attraction and may I add.. abounding trust.


I feel the same. 

For me, they go hand-in-hand fairly equally in terms of this long term relationship/marriage. 

I need that sexual attraction... which encompasses the physical and a sexy, intriguing mind too. 

And I do respect the pants off him. Literally. Which contributes to my attraction to him.

I respect him more now than I ever have. I'm experiencing the man he is, how he leads himself through life, and with integrity. I know where he's come from, what he's been through, the faults, limitations, acceptance and growth. It's the whole package that I find interesting, intriguing, intoxicating. However it's not these traits alone... it's that I also find him physically attractive and handsome. I shared once that I did a double-take when driving to work. He'd stopped to grab a coffee and was walking as I drove past. His walk caught my attention. I didn't even realize it was him at first ha ha. 

He's like catnip to me. Pathetic, I know!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> What if you have neither?


I'd be out the door.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> I'd be out the door.


If it were only that easy, I should have made that decision a long time ago.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?


Women can not be sexually attracted to a man they don't respect.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Women can not be sexually attracted to a man they don't respect.


LOL. So not true.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> LOL. So not true.


I imagine a big wiener for the short term would trump respect? 

Money might trump a big wiener for the medium term?

Respect and love along with enough financial security for the long term?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

wild jade said:


> LOL. So not true.


It's been true of every woman I've met. Clearly, you are special.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> ...this list made me chuckle.
> 
> I think if I ever had a 'list' it'd be more along the lines of: he's been through sh!t that made him resilient, had a dysfunctional upbringing, knows what his values are... can cook.


You don't have a list? That made me chuckle. I told my wife, and she chuckled too. Every girl/women has a list. The real issue is women have a problem being honest, especially in their dealings with other women. I don't expect you to actually admit such. Highlighting the absurdity of the items the list was a rather transparent attempt to deflect. Carry on.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> ...this list made me chuckle.
> 
> I think if I ever had a 'list' it'd be more along the lines of: he's been through sh!t that made him resilient, had a dysfunctional upbringing, knows what his values are... can cook.





MrsHolland said:


> Yes some* men and women* may well do this, some, not many or most would be my guess. None of this is fact, it is speculation.


All women have a list... to say otherwise is simply not true. 

Yes, it is proven, empirically, that women can, and do, walk down the aisle to marry a man with whom they have no sexual attraction and may not even love. Anecdotally, that's why we see old men with younger women.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Stack said:


> You don't have a list? That made me chuckle. I told my wife, and she chuckled too. Every girl/women has a list. The real issue is women have a problem being honest, especially in their dealings with other women. I don't expect you to actually admit such. Highlighting the absurdity of the items the list was a rather transparent attempt to deflect. Carry on.


Easy tiger. The chuckle I had with your post was self-deprecation more than anything.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

And then there are those that will not communicate and you can only guess at what they think based on their actions and random comments etc. My ex WS likes the Beckham's, Tatum's, Manganiello's etc of this world - her fantasy men. Her AP wasn't in this league looks wise but he was in the ballpark. 

Did she respect him? I guess so, he made her feel good; made her feel attractive. He was management material, well spoken, good at his job (I suspect), a bit of a leader. She had a record of going for the suits (previous affairs). Is it respect - sort of. Maybe it was all just sexual attraction.

I don't really know for sure about respect - not enough info. For all I know she respected the fact that he was good in the sack. I know she didn't respect me or find me sexually attractive. She said so.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Clearly, you are special.


I wish. But not hardly.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> ...this list made me chuckle.
> 
> I think if I ever had a 'list' it'd be more along the lines of: he's been through sh!t that made him resilient, had a dysfunctional upbringing, knows what his values are... can cook.


Tee hee. My "list" seems to look a lot like your list.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I imagine a big wiener for the short term would trump respect?
> 
> Money might trump a big wiener for the medium term?
> 
> Respect and love along with enough financial security for the long term?


I think you're confusing things. Money doesn't prompt either sexual attraction or respect. Not for me, at any rate. 

All I meant was that I can find someone who is very handsome and/or charming on the surface to be very sexually attractive, and still not have any respect for him (if his personality is obnoxious or he isn't very smart, or something like that). 

It's easy enough to separate the two things. I can also respect someone that I have no sexual attraction to.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?


Don't know.
I will tell you one thing. IMO if a woman loses respect for her man, lack of sexual attraction is soon to follow.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Stack said:


> All women have a list... to say otherwise is simply not true.
> 
> Yes, it is proven, empirically, that women can, and do, walk down the aisle to marry a man with whom they have no sexual attraction and may not even love. Anecdotally, that's why we see old men with younger women.


I didn't have a list. So you are wrong, with your generalisation that ALL women have a list. Maybe it is something Oprah might agree with though.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> I think you're confusing things. Money doesn't prompt either sexual attraction or respect. Not for me, at any rate.
> 
> All I meant was that I can find someone who is very handsome and/or charming on the surface to be very sexually attractive, and still not have any respect for him (if his personality is obnoxious or he isn't very smart, or something like that).
> 
> It's easy enough to separate the two things. I can also respect someone that I have no sexual attraction to.




I see what you are trying to tell me. You could be attracted to someone physically handsome, who has no other qualities that would normally cause you to want a long term relationship.

I agree and when I have and we attempted to talk, which is what has to be done for sex to happen, I get turned off until we don't talk. I then choose to move along.

Yes, I can respect a woman for her abilities and maturity without being at all attracted to her. 

Can you tell me what this means in the context of a long term relationship? Is it better to have more sexual attraction at first than respect or the opposite? 

Is it better to attempt to have them in equal measure? Honestly, I don't think that is possible.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> I didn't have a list. So you are wrong, with your generalisation that ALL women have a list. Maybe it is something Oprah might agree with though.



You have no standards regarding who you date or who would marry or who you wish to share your life? Hmmm? You are the only woman I've spoken with who didn't have list, however short, describing an ideal husband or partner or SO floating around in her mind. 

Such traits as honesty, caring, respect, sense of humor, tall(er), athletic, smart, articulate, successful, racial preference, ambitious, passionate, etc... have no bearing on your choice of partner or even a friend. An admitted psychotic serial cheater would make the cut for you? 

Those lists of ideal men have propelled romance novels to a billion-dollar genre and was the motivation for Disney to change their animation paradigm to target girls, focusing on romantic narratives.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> Don't know.
> I will tell you one thing. IMO if a woman loses respect for her man, lack of sexual attraction is soon to follow.


So, you, as a man, think that women need to have more respect for a man than sexual noattraction? 

What does it take for a woman to respect a man? How long will it take for her to respect you enough to find sexual attraction? 

As a man, do you think it is better for men to have more sexual attraction than respect?

Do you think it is better for her to earn your respect or for you to give it initially and let her prove over time, that you were right to give it freely?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I respect many people whom I find sexually repulsive. But, I can be sexually attracted to someone I don't respect. 

I think this question lacks a necessary dimension: time. It's also not always an either/or scenario.

In the short term, respect may not be needed to have sexual attraction and act on it; in fact, in some cases respect may prevent you from acting on sexual attraction. In the long term, both probably play an important role for most people.

I give everyone a default level of respect. From there, they either earn more, or lose some.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> I respect many people whom I find sexually repulsive. But, I can be sexually attracted to someone I don't respect.
> 
> I think this question lacks a necessary dimension: time. It's also not always an either/or scenario.
> 
> ...


I think almost all of us do. 

Would it be better to have more respect for a woman you marry or sexual attraction? I'm considering that we all have a certain level of respect for everyone. 

You ask about time. How much time would it take in most cases, to date and marry? 3 years? 

Okay, let's say 3. At the end of that 3 years, you have a date with marriage to that woman. Both of you want a good long term marriage. 

Would it be better to have a higher level of respect than sexual attraction or the opposite? 

Is it better to earn greater respect over time? 

Is it better to learn to be sexually attracted over time?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I think almost all of us do.
> 
> Would it be better to have more respect for a woman you marry or sexual attraction? I'm considering that we all have a certain level of respect for everyone.
> 
> ...


IMO, a higher level of sexual attraction is better. However, I wouldn't marry someone if there wasn't already a high level of mutual respect. Why? Because respect can continue to grow, but sexual attraction will often fade a little (sometimes a lot) over time, so better to start high. I don't think sexual attraction typically grows after marriage (it can, but more often work, kids, and stress get in the way).


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I see what you are trying to tell me. You could be attracted to someone physically handsome, who has no other qualities that would normally cause you to want a long term relationship.
> 
> I agree and when I have and we attempted to talk, which is what has to be done for sex to happen, I get turned off until we don't talk. I then choose to move along.
> 
> ...


Both sexual attraction and respect are essential for LTR, IMHO. As is compatibility.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> Both sexual attraction and respect are essential for LTR, IMHO. As is compatibility.


I agree. I'd like to discuss only sexual attraction and respect.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Stack said:


> You have no standards regarding who you date or who would marry or who you wish to share your life? Hmmm? You are the only woman I've spoken with who didn't have list, however short, describing an ideal husband or partner or SO floating around in her mind.
> 
> Such traits as honesty, caring, respect, sense of humor, tall(er), athletic, smart, articulate, successful, racial preference, ambitious, passionate, etc... have no bearing on your choice of partner or even a friend. An admitted psychotic serial cheater would make the cut for you?
> 
> Those lists of ideal men have propelled romance novels to a billion-dollar genre and was the motivation for Disney to change their animation paradigm to target girls, focusing on romantic narratives.


Well I have never read a romance novel in my life so not familiar with these types of lists. I had no list of traits, no preconcieved notion. I do however have very high standards which means that a lot of men are of no interest to me, if that is a list then so be it. But I would say in this case that MEN and WOMEN have preferences, not just ALL WOMEN as you say.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> Well I have never read a romance novel in my life so not familiar with these types of lists. I had no list of traits, no preconcieved notion. I do however have very high standards which means that a lot of men are of no interest to me, if that is a list then so be it. But I would say in this case that MEN and WOMEN have preferences, not just ALL WOMEN as you say.



Of course men have lists or, as you say, preferences. I haven't said otherwise. At least men are open and honest about it, unlike women. Women will go to their grave claiming there are more important "preferences" that trump physical appearance/attraction. Yet, we all know physical attraction is as important to women as it is to men, if not more. Women see men as someone they will sleep with or someone they won't. Yes, men do the same with women. Once again, men are honest about it.

You are intelligent and articulate. Yet, you feel the need, for reasons only known to you, to plead ignorance about this topic of lists or... preferences or standards, especially regarding romance novels. You have never seen a cover? You have never read an excerpt? I have no clue what kind of character traits those protagonists possess, as I too have never picked up a romance novel. But, I'm aware of the "type" of man that is always on the cover. Young. Muscular. Full head of hair. Strong facial features. Generically attractive. It's never a 60yr old man, sporting the comb-over, wearing glasses, with his pants hiked up over his waist. At least I'm honest about it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> IMO, a higher level of sexual attraction is better. However, I wouldn't marry someone if there wasn't already a high level of mutual respect. Why? Because respect can continue to grow, but sexual attraction will often fade a little (sometimes a lot) over time, so better to start high. I don't think sexual attraction typically grows after marriage (it can, but more often work, kids, and stress get in the way).


Mine grew. Dunno about my wife's. Respect grew also, I feel. We have been together since we were 15-16 (now 35/36) and it was amazing to watch her turn from a girl into a woman. Maybe it will fade from now onwards, I have no idea. But I hope not.

I did have one thought today and perhaps it is not so relevant for this thread. This is a big generalisation but I always felt that women's definition and understanding of both respect and sexual attraction is much more complex. I don't know whether the line is as clear as with men, where it's basically, for sexual attraction: "nice tits, great ass, face ok from the front": tick. Respect: "she knows how to park the car": tick. (I did say it was a generalization...) With women, it's so many components that it all becomes blurry. 

I see a lot of comments from women who require a man who is able to bring home a decent income, without it, he is not a "proper man". Or how he is so and so, has a "sexy" sense of humour. How they fancy a guy who is not "typically good looking" but is determined and ambitious etc.
Where do these things belong to? In the "respect" or the "attraction" column? It's two different worlds where certain words begin to take on a subjective meaning to perhaps become meaning-less?

So the thought I had was that sometimes I feel it would be much easier, if the definition coincided more precisely, then there would be less separations/divorces. A woman might make herself feel that money & power is "sexy" in a man (possibly because she is at a stage where she really needs to settle down/needs security etc) but then once security is there, she might realise that actually, "I am really not that into him". 
This wouldn't happen if both sexes had the same definition of what's attractive! 

I do think that *genuine* (primal) sexual attraction is very important for a woman (towards a man) and is underrated because other things might take priority, temporarily. Of course sexual attraction is also important for men, but it's almost not worth discussing because what men need in a woman, can be counted on one hand (with three fingers).


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I agree. I'd like to discuss only sexual attraction and respect.


I thought about this response of mine since I posted it, off and on. 
@wild jade, I want to tell you I wasn't angry with you. I didn't really respond the way I needed to be understood. 

I'm sorry to all of you for that. 

I really don't care if you all want to take the discussion other places that you think relate to the topic. It's really okay with me. 

What I intended when I posted this response was, I don't want to talk about anything except sexual attraction and respect. 

You all can. I don't care. I just want to address the topic. I don't see anything wrong with any of you men and women talking about whatever you think relates to it.

I haven't said anything or even commented on some of the posts which could have been thought of as off topic. 

Please understand, I think these two are the boiled down basics. If anyone wants to explore other ideas, that's fine with me. I don't want to, but you can. 

It doesn't bother me at all what you all talk about, within reason. And I know you are all reasonable. I've been here long enough to know. 

Again, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to discourage thought experiments. I could be missing valuable knowledge. I don't want to do that, if I can help it.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I thought about this response of mine since I posted it, off and on.
> @wild jade, I want to tell you I wasn't angry with you. I didn't really respond the way I needed to be understood.
> 
> I'm sorry to all of you for that.
> ...


Can you tell us why you want to focus on these two issues? It may help to actually get the discussion actually addressing the issues you want to address.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Because I had more attraction for my first wife than respect. I couldn't talk much to her and feel like she understood me or like what she was saying was close to what I was talking about. I think that was due to my lack of respect. I never lost attraction for her.

I had more respect for my second wife than I had attraction. I wanted to talk with her as much as I could. I valued her opinions highly, though she could not be trusted to be faithful. My attraction for her grew, but not in a primal fashion. It grew in ways I though of a more mature. 

My first wife never complained about our sex life. Sometimes she said I wanted her too often. 

It was the opposite in my second marriage. 

I wondered because of those things, what was best for a good long term relationship, since I'd experienced both.

I don't think it's possible to have equal amounts of each. I really don't and if they ever are equal, it won't be for long. One will always surpass the other. 

I think as we get older, that animal attraction will lessen, while our desire for each other will grow. I think that desire will be in an equal amount or close, to the amount of respect we have. 

Edit: Notice I didn't say attraction. I said desire. I think those are different.

Hope that makes sense. I just didn't want to start this about me. I wanted free thinking so I could read and be able to think about my position in comparison with others, so I could be more objective and feel less pressured. 

I thought it would be an interesting discussion. Maybe I was mistaken.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Stack said:


> Of course men have lists or, as you say, preferences. I haven't said otherwise. At least men are open and honest about it, unlike women. Women will go to their grave claiming there are more important "preferences" that trump physical appearance/attraction. Yet, we all know physical attraction is as important to women as it is to men, if not more. Women see men as someone they will sleep with or someone they won't. Yes, men do the same with women. Once again, men are honest about it.
> 
> You are intelligent and articulate. Yet, you feel the need, for reasons only known to you, to plead ignorance about this topic of lists or... preferences or standards, especially regarding romance novels. You have never seen a cover? You have never read an excerpt? I have no clue what kind of character traits those protagonists possess, as I too have never picked up a romance novel. But, I'm aware of the "type" of man that is always on the cover. Young. Muscular. Full head of hair. Strong facial features. Generically attractive. It's never a 60yr old man, sporting the comb-over, wearing glasses, with his pants hiked up over his waist. At least I'm honest about it.


I have never, ever, not once read one word from a romance novel. As for lists, no I never had one, not ever. I do have standards which many men would not meet, it is not something that I think about consciously more something that is a knowing, something that men in my life (dad, brothers etc via example have shown) and I expect no less, if you want to call that a list then I am cool with that.


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## Davidmidwest (Nov 22, 2016)

All I know, as a man, I like to be admired and though of being a good provider and I need to hear that in away that shows I am special to her. Good at compromise, cooks dinner and has it ready once in a while. At all costs sit down together for a meal, Dress up and wear make up sometimes to look pretty,
That admiration that I am special and affection will go well and for the woman to not quit portraying those niceties, romance, and etc. while they were dating and it continues through out the marriage. It is touch when money, work, kids, and time take you out of the game. Do you want memories of goodness, love, togetherness, good sex. Put boundaries on work, housework to spend more time at home together, but also do you own hobbies so you get a break.

Husbands, do the same, your woman , the rest below is the same for a woman and a man. We want to be loved, cherrished. Besides being told and touched. She needs to know you are same and will provide a safe home for her and your children. And of course, you do your part to set up memories and romance to set the stage for making love just as equally as her. None of this, "Want to do it?" What fun is that. Oh' buy her trinkets of affection occasionally and never forget a dinner date and a gift on Valentines day, Christmas, her birthday, or when ever the mood strikes you. Don't ever say, can that fish or tool, or gloved you purchased two weeks before Christmas, "Gee, can that be your Christmas gift?" The means you aren't special and not work caring for.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Because I had more attraction for my first wife than respect. I couldn't talk much to her and feel like she understood me or like what she was saying was close to what I was talking about. I think that was due to my lack of respect. I never lost attraction for her.
> 
> I had more respect for my second wife than I had attraction. I wanted to talk with her as much as I could. I valued her opinions highly, though she could not be trusted to be faithful. My attraction for her grew, but not in a primal fashion. It grew in ways I though of a more mature.
> 
> ...


Are you still with your second wife? Which of the two did you find better?

Personally, I could handle lack of respect for only a very short time, and without it I couldn't have LTR. But with sexual attraction it's easy to make up the difference. I can always close my eyes. Or spin up a fantasy. My sexual energies and interest will still exist without that.

I wouldn't say that my desire for him has increased over the years. But certainly we are bonded in ways that make it pretty unthinkable to stop wanting to be together just because we're no longer young and sexy.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> Are you still with your second wife?


No, we divorced 5+ years ago.




wild jade said:


> Which of the two did you find better?


At the time, I thought it wasn't so difficult to be less attracted and have less sex. I'm aging and I knew eventually she would be less interested, due to menopause. I figured it was highly important to respect a woman I would be with in my later years. I believed we would find each other's company more comforting than daily sex. I exaggerate a little since I doubt many are having daily sex in their 50s and later. 

Now, it would be difficult, in my 50s, to find a woman who was really physically attractive like when I when I was in my 20s. Bodies change. That doesn't mean I think anything great about myself. Just that I find the same physical things attractive in a woman I always did. I know I won't be able to find a woman like that, though they do exist. Usually, I see them with someone in much better shape who has power and money. 

Count me out of that group. 




wild jade said:


> Personally, I could handle lack of respect for only a very short time, and without it I couldn't have LTR. But with sexual attraction it's easy to make up the difference. I can always close my eyes. Or spin up a fantasy. My sexual energies and interest will still exist without that.


Why would you have to spin up a fantasy if you are sexually attracted to the person? Dream you are with someone who is wealthy? I'm not sure I understand.

You say you could only handle lack of respect for a short time, but what if you had not respect for your partner, but were sexually attracted to them at a chemical level you could not really control? Know that you would be able to control your actions, just not the feelings.

Maybe your respect for him isn't a big deal? I'm a bit confused. 



wild jade said:


> I wouldn't say that my desire for him has increased over the years. But certainly we are bonded in ways that make it pretty unthinkable to stop wanting to be together just because we're no longer young and sexy.


When I read that you are bonded in ways that make it pretty unthinkable...I think that you are simply talking about how your lives are mingled through money, house, retirement accounts, and maybe children and grandchildren. 

All tangible and material things that I find can be lost in an instant. Is that what you meant? 

If that's how life is supposed to turn out as a married couple, I'd rather be alone. I find no real respect in those "things". I don't want to be respected for what I have, since I don't really have anything anyway. I'd rather be respected for who I am. Maybe that isn't enough or worth a tinker's dam to most women?


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Why would you have to spin up a fantasy if you are sexually attracted to the person? Dream you are with someone who is wealthy? I'm not sure I understand.
> 
> You say you could only handle lack of respect for a short time, but what if you had not respect for your partner, but were sexually attracted to them at a chemical level you could not really control? Know that you would be able to control your actions, just not the feelings.
> 
> Maybe your respect for him isn't a big deal? I'm a bit confused.


What I meant was that I actually have lost quite a bit of sexual attraction for my husband, but it doesn't really affect our sex life because I can easily compensate for this. He's gained a lot of weight and has a few other issues that greatly reduce my attraction for him. But I just deal with it (compensate) and so far, the only thing that reduces the amount of sex we have is his own health issues.

The feeling of uncontrollable sexual attraction isn't necessary for good sex. 

As for bonded, no I wasn't talking about material entanglements. I was talking about spending half my life with this person, the shared experiences, the intimacy and companionship. We are truly bonded, and there's no way I could look at some harbodied sexpot young guy and think that he has anything to offer me beyond a good boff. And probably not even that, LOL. Just because someone is really hot to look at doesn't mean they are any good in bed. 

For me at any rate, the only thing looks are good for is looking at. And while good looks are nice, they really aren't all that important.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> What I meant was that I actually have lost quite a bit of sexual attraction for my husband, but it doesn't really affect our sex life because I can easily compensate for this. He's gained a lot of weight and has a few other issues that greatly reduce my attraction for him. But I just deal with it (compensate) and so far, the only thing that reduces the amount of sex we have is his own health issues.


Oh, so you really don't have that chemical sexual attraction I was speaking of? I understand.

I suppose I've never experienced having it, then losing it, if that is the case. I can't imagine having a chemical attraction that is basically inexplicable and then losing it, even when losing respect for them. I don't think it's possible unless my body's ability to sense whatever caused the attraction was gone. 

I'm guessing, but I think you do respect him less. Remember I asked that question? I'm guessing you need the fantasy because you don't respect him or are as attracted to him as you used to be or could be. 




wild jade said:


> The feeling of uncontrollable sexual attraction isn't necessary for good sex.


It is for satisfying sex. That's my opinion. I didn't meant to suggest it is the only one. 

Otherwise, it's just getting off in numerous ways. Basically, the end result is the same and it's pretty tedious for me. 



wild jade said:


> As for bonded, no I wasn't talking about material entanglements. I was talking about spending half my life with this person, the shared experiences, the intimacy and companionship.


What kind of shared experiences? Can you list one or two and tell me why they keep you with him? The intimacy part suggests to me that you have taught him how to please you and it would be too difficult to do that with another man. It seems like you are saying it took you half your life to get him to this point. So, the companionship is based upon regularities and consistencies that, while you may not enjoy them, you find comfortable because you aren't up for new surprises. 

Do I understand you at all? 




wild jade said:


> We are truly bonded, and there's no way I could look at some harbodied sexpot young guy and think that he has anything to offer me beyond a good boff. And probably not even that, LOL. Just because someone is really hot to look at doesn't mean they are any good in bed.


I'm not interested in a sexpot for a long term partner. They pretty much turn me off. They disgust me. Not sure I can put it in a nice way, if asked. Please, don't ask. :laugh:

Oh, sure, I know a hot person isn't necessarily great in bed. They have to know what pleases me, know how to do it the way I like it, and be enthusiastic about it while wanting to do it. And not just for me, but for their pleasure as well.

Does that make sense? 




wild jade said:


> For me at any rate, the only thing looks are good for is looking at. And while good looks are nice, they really aren't all that important.


Well, we all have to compromise. Believe me, I would never be able to land a hottie. What is hot to me, isn't likely hot for many other men. 

In any case, hot alone won't do it for me. Sorry if you thought that's what I have been saying. It isn't. 

There must be that chemical attraction to start with. How strong it is in comparison to the amount of respect I have for a woman is where it must start.

The right combination of hot to me, along with respect, seem to be the ticket to satisfaction.


Will you answer a few questions? 

How old are you? Or, at least, are you fully in menopause?

Do you believe hot men were missing out on a catch, in you? 

If you could do it all over again, what kind of man would you choose? One who wants you to rock his world or one who respects you for the mature adult you are, your accomplishments and your dedication to being the best you can be? 

Maybe you would have liked some combination of those things?


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I'm guessing, but I think you do respect him less. Remember I asked that question? I'm guessing you need the fantasy because you don't respect him or are as attracted to him as you used to be or could be.


Why do you guess this? It's not that I don't respect him, it's that I find his weight gain and health issues to make him less attractive. If you're going to be with someone for the long term, then it's likely something you'll have to face. We all get older, more wrinkly, develop health issues and so on. And consequently become less sexually attractive. It has nothing to do with respect.




2ntnuf said:


> What kind of shared experiences? Can you list one or two and tell me why they keep you with him? The intimacy part suggests to me that you have taught him how to please you and it would be too difficult to do that with another man. It seems like you are saying it took you half your life to get him to this point. So, the companionship is based upon regularities and consistencies that, while you may not enjoy them, you find comfortable because you aren't up for new surprises.
> 
> Do I understand you at all?


No. I don't think you do. I am always up for new surprises, and no I haven't "trained" him to please me. We've lived together, travelled together, had brand new and wonderful experiences together, and endured hardships and always had each other's back. We have built memories, we have laughed, we have shared so much over the last 20 years that I couldn't even begin to isolate just one or two things that keep us together. 



2ntnuf said:


> Will you answer a few questions?
> 
> How old are you? Or, at least, are you fully in menopause?
> 
> ...


I am 50, and have not started menopause. I don't see myself as a "catch", and highly doubt anyone has missed out by not being with me. That said, I don't really think I've missed out either. If I had to do it all over again, I would make the same types of choices I made. Personally, I need to be appreciated for who I am. And would have to also appreciate any LTR for the whole package.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> Now, it would be difficult, in my 50s, to find a woman who was really physically attractive like when I when I was in my 20s. Bodies change. That doesn't mean I think anything great about myself. Just that I find the same physical things attractive in a woman I always did. I know I won't be able to find a woman like that, though they do exist. Usually, I see them with someone in much better shape who has power and money.


Ok, I see where this is coming from now. I think this is all a bit pessimistic. It's never too late to meet somebody new. To be honest, instead of trying to work out a formula, it might be more fruitful to try and socialise more to maximise your chances of meeting the love of your life. I do think you can have both in one person (attraction and respect). How much of each, doesn't really matter. It seems that in your previous marriages, one was always missing. Things didn't work out well in the past, it doesn't mean they won't work out in future. 50 is really not old and a great time to meet someone new. The good thing is that she will also have a lot of experience behind her and it's much less likely mistakes will be repeated. Go and get them.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Ok, I see where this is coming from now. I think this is all a bit pessimistic. It's never too late to meet somebody new. To be honest, instead of trying to work out a formula, it might be more fruitful to try and socialise more to maximise your chances of meeting the love of your life. I do think you can have both in one person (attraction and respect). How much of each, doesn't really matter. It seems that in your previous marriages, one was always missing. Things didn't work out well in the past, it doesn't mean they won't work out in future. 50 is really not old and a great time to meet someone new. The good thing is that she will also have a lot of experience behind her and it's much less likely mistakes will be repeated. Go and get them.


Very good grasshopper. reference to the television series of the 70s, Kung Fu. :wink2:

See, I was hoping to save myself the embarrassment of revelation.

Ah, but the future is yet to be written and will likely turn out the same as the past. 

I've got no idea how to go and get them. I've got no idea how to date. I haven't been on a date since 2002 and that took a hell of a lot for me to go after her. 

Much is revealed in this thread, but most only see what they want to see. 

Thanks @inmyprime. Impressive.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

There are many places to meet people, apart from obvious (work). Any social events, parties, concerts. Get some hobbies. Have you tried ballroom dancing? (In my opinion, an undercover operation to couple people up. Before our wedding, we took some ballroom dance lessons, so that we don't look like fools in our wedding, and I basically spent the majority of the time watching older guys dancing with my wife...I later realised it's mostly for singles...).
Anyway, if you want something to happen badly enough, it *will* happen.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Why those dirty old men! hahaha


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I've got no idea how to go and get them. I've got no idea how to date. I haven't been on a date since 2002 and that took a hell of a lot for me to go after her.


You'll still have to deal with that issue that bodies do change and that what you find attractive isn't actually keeping up with your age. That will make it much, much harder for you. And even when you do find one, it'll be an ongoing problem.

But if you're actually willing to date someone your own age, I think if you look you'll find that there are way more women than men, that many are seeking a relationship, and that they don't really have a clue how to date either. 

So it actually isn't that hard.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> You'll still have to deal with that issue that bodies do change and that what you find attractive isn't actually keeping up with your age. That will make it much, much harder for you. And even when you do find one, it'll be an ongoing problem.
> 
> But if you're actually willing to date someone your own age, I think if you look you'll find that there are way more women than men, that many are seeking a relationship, and that they don't really have a clue how to date either.
> 
> So it actually isn't that hard.


So, you'r telling me I'll never find an attractive woman again.

All women are going to become unattractive.

If I settle for a woman my own age who I'm not attracted to and never will be then I'll have way morew women I won't be interested in to choose from.

Only those women in my age group, who I won't be attracted to, will be inteested in a relationship and have no idea how to find a man they truly want. 

Oh great! Those are wonderul option. I'll go kill myself now, so I don't have to worry about ever being happy again. Thanks......

Has your husband considered suicide often? :laugh:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

No, I think you misunderstood: there are women for you out there who you will find both attractive and who will also be close to your age.
Do you need to date Miss Universe? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> No, I think you misunderstood: there are women for you out there who you will find both attractive and who will also be close to your age.
> Do you need to date Miss Universe?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If she said it like that, I'd have understood.

Hell no. I know better than to think I'd be attractive to a miss universe. And, as I've already said right in this thread, it isn't necessarily about a hottie. 

It's about chemical attraction. A hottie can be standing in front of me and I wouldn't care more than to just look at her like a fine artist's painting.

It's also about resect. There has to be a certain amount of respect for the woman, as well, or she will be a turn off. 

I've been all through this. There are seven pages of what I think. It isn't tough to figure out. 

widjade just likes to start trouble. She does that on purpose. She knows how to be positive with her posts. She just doesn't like it when men want to have options. She wants men to be stuck because she feels stuck in her marriage. 

It's either that or she simply hates me. I'm not sure. You don't give her enough credit for her intelligence, inmyprime.

You may not have been around long enough to see enough of her posts, ether.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Haha, sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you both 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Haha, sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you both
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No problem. 

The reality is, it's unlikely to find a woman I want to be wth at my age, with the income I have, by the fact that I have already been divorced twice, and with my health history.

I know all this stuff. I just haven't said that I realize my "handicaps" inhibiting me from finding a decent woman. 

I think many readers look at the surface of a thread and figure the person doesn't realize they are already handicapped with issues. Beleve me, I know better than most I've got issues. I don't want to dwell on that stuff, nor have I asked about how to handle them, because I don't think anyone here has the ability to help me with solving them. 

Therefore, I know I must accept what I cannot change, and work on the things I can change.

That's a daunting task. 

In the meantime, I ask questions like this to understand what will make my work a little less arduous.

I have to understand who I am and what I want, or I'll never have a decent chance. Some just don't get that. Some do and want to cause confusion so that it never happens. Some think it is humorous to cause more issues. Some want to thread jack in an attempt at some sort of payback. 

There are many types of members here at TAM. Not all of them are on the up and up, if, you know what I mean. You have to ignore the ones who aren't really doing much harm, but directly address those who are attempting to cofuse, bully, and mislead. 

If no one addresses bullying, it will continue. I had to be sure before I addressed wildjade. I am sure. 

Hell, I even took a few of her posts seriously, giving her the benefit of doubt. 

Once again, thanks for your comments and suggestions. 

I appreciate your well thought out responses, inmyprime. They helped.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> widjade just likes to start trouble. She does that on purpose. She knows how to be positive with her posts. She just doesn't like it when men want to have options. She wants men to be stuck because she feels stuck in her marriage.
> 
> It's either that or she simply hates me. I'm not sure. You don't give her enough credit for her intelligence, inmyprime.
> 
> You may not have been around long enough to see enough of her posts, ether.


Oh brother. 

I actually thought we were having a genuine conversation. I didn't realize you were waiting for me to say something you didn't like so you could start putting me down.

Just out of curiosity, who do you think is the bully in this thread?

I'm fine with you having options. I just think you're conditions will be limiting them. But clearly you're looking for reassurance and not interested in anything else.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it better to have more sexual attraction for your SO than respect, or more respect and less sexual attraction?


There is no sexual attraction for me, aside from a quick flash of illogical lust , without being able to respect a woman.

The more my wife respects me and the more I earn respect, it definitely adds to her friskiness with me.


For us, the two are linked with sexual attraction following respect.

It boils down to a level of discipline as well.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Why would you be in a relationship without both? Sexual attraction ebbs and flows throughout a relationship, obviously, but still, if it's not there in some form, I would think it would be hard to maintain a relationship. A large part of what sets a relationship apart from a friendship is sex. If you aren't feeling it, what you have is basically a friendship.

Regarding respect, maybe it's just me, but I do my best to respect everyone. Sometimes I fail. There's a big difference between respecting someone though and liking them enough to want to pursue a relationship. But I would say when you lose either respect or attraction in a relationship, it does not bode well for its future. Many people on this forum have noted that hand in hand with a loss of sexual attraction in a relationship, is usually a loss of respect, or loss of affection in general. 

Some people invest more emotional attachment to sex than others. I have been with a small number of partners, some of whom have had to have a very high level of emotional connection for sex to happen, some of whom showed little respect for me but were happy to have sex with me (needless to say the latter few didn't last very long once I recognized that). I'm somewhere in the middle I guess. I wouldn't want to have sex with someone I didn't respect, and have at least some attraction and emotional connection with.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I have to understand who I am and what I want, or I'll never have a decent chance.


I absolutely agree with this. 


I don't understand your perspective of wildjade. The interaction between you seemed honest and with reasonable intention. I agree that she is highly intelligent. I'm feeling the need to come to her defense as based on the posts in this thread between you, all I noted was a healthy exchange of experiences and opinions. It provided some insight to both of you. No doubt you felt otherwise.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> I absolutely agree with this.
> 
> 
> I don't understand your perspective of wildjade. The interaction between you seemed honest and with reasonable intention. I agree that she is highly intelligent. I'm feeling the need to come to her defense as based on the posts in this thread between you, all I noted was a healthy exchange of experiences and opinions. It provided some insight to both of you. *No doubt you felt otherwise*.


I did hearts. As you and everyone else could tell. Did you happen to see how she seemed to want to push the idea that i want a hottie and not somone for whom I will find that special chemical attraction and respect? Even after several pages of me stating that in one way or another until I was tired of typing, she suggested I just wanted a hottie, in so many words. 

I tried that respect and then sexual attraction should add thing. It doesn't work. I even stated that. 

Sometimes folks get ideas in their heads due to what they believe they have read, or what they have experiened. It doesn't make it the truth or the idea intended to be conveyed. At what point do you say enough?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I did hearts. As you and everyone else could tell. Did you happen to see how she seemed to want to push the idea that i want a hottie and not somone for whom I will find that special chemical attraction and respect? Even after several pages of me stating that in one way or another until I was tired of typing, she suggested I just wanted a hottie, in so many words.


I reread the last few posts and I understand how you interpreted this. Only she'd be able to clarify if it was intended this way or otherwise; she may choose not to.




2ntnuf said:


> I tried that respect and then sexual attraction should add thing. It doesn't work. I even stated that.
> 
> Sometimes folks get ideas in their heads due to what they believe they have read, or what they have experiened. It doesn't make it the truth or the idea intended to be conveyed. At what point do you say enough?


Many of us do this. 

At what point do you say enough..? Well, personally I have a limited amount of fvcks I can give in a day - and they are generally dedicated to what I deem as having value or meaning, extending to a variety of instances and/or connections.

If I'm not being understood about something, maybe it's the way I'm communicating that's ineffective. Maybe I'm not attempting to understand the other person. And other times, I may question whether and why I need to be understood.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

For the record, my intent with that post was to point out that the fears and limits that OP faces are exactly the same as a lot of women face.

In other words, there's nothing really to fear but fear itself.

The limitations of choice are in response to a post where he said one of the biggest problems he faced was that he was much less attracted to older women as they grow older because he wants the same things as he did when he was younger. 

Sometimes it's worth considering whether perspectives are worth updating.



2ntnuf said:


> Now, it would be difficult, in my 50s, to find a woman who was really physically attractive like when I when I was in my 20s. Bodies change. That doesn't mean I think anything great about myself. Just that I find the same physical things attractive in a woman I always did. I know I won't be able to find a woman like that, though they do exist. Usually, I see them with someone in much better shape who has power and money.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Women can not be sexually attracted to a man they don't respect.


Er.....um......yes, we can.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> I respect many people whom I find sexually repulsive. But, I can be sexually attracted to someone I don't respect.


Exactly. Not sure why this would be any different for men and women?

I'm sexually attracted to LOTS of people I have little respect for. Which doesn't mean I'd ever actually have sex with them. But it doesn't mean I wouldn't, either (if I was single and had some reason for wanting to do it). Haven't most men who have had more than just a few partners had sex with a woman they didn't respect just because she was hot? If two people know they are just going to have a ONS and never see each other again, why do they need to respect each other (other than by offering basic human kindness before, during and after the act)? I've never been a ONS person, but have seen most of my girlfriends do it once or twice with guys they certainly didn't respect, but when he looks like Tatum Channing, who the F cares? 

Lack of respect is kind of vague, however. If a man I was highly sexually attracted to did not have my respect because he was a criminal, a dangerous psycho, or violent weirdo, etc. then no, I'd never have sex with him regardless of attraction. 

I know this thread wasn't about casual sex, so maybe @BetrayedDad meant that women in LTR's won't remain sexually attracted to a man they don't respect. I would still disagree because I know plenty of women in LTR's who don't respect their man but who still are attracted to and have sex with him....but in a more general sense, I think a woman would certainly lose at least some sexual attraction if he lost her respect or she may lose all of her attraction toward him.

Again, I think it depends on why he doesn't have her respect.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> Don't know.
> I will tell you one thing. IMO if a woman loses respect for her man, lack of sexual attraction is soon to follow.


It seems this would generally be true....but is not always true. I just know women who are highly sexual and also so strongly attracted to their man that even after they lost respect for him, they still had plenty of sex with him. Some women do not see sex as a "reward" they "give" to a man. Some women can compartmentalize sex and want to have it even when there is a loss of respect, just because they simply want sex!

The same women (the ones I know personally, I mean) would NOT still have sex if they had lost _physical attraction_ to their man. 

I'm not saying this describes all women. Just offering some other examples.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There's a young girl who lives next door to us. Her parents pay the rent on her house. We own ours.

She has two men in her life.

She respects the one -who is a nice chap- but she doesn't respect, or even like, from what she says, her other man.

The conversation in their back garden between her and another older female went like this:

Girl: "*Like* him? Oh! I don't like him. In fact, sometimes I hate his guts!"
Older woman: "I don't understand? If you hate him, why do you allow him to keep coming round?"
Girl: "He has an absolutely massive c**k and he knows how to use it!"
Older woman. "Oh, I see."

The night time squealing from her when he is there is ummm _interesting_ to say the least. If it gets really bad we wear headphones.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> It seems this would generally be true....but is not always true. I just know women who are highly sexual and also so strongly attracted to their man that even after they lost respect for him, they still had plenty of sex with him. Some women do not see sex as a "reward" they "give" to a man. Some women can compartmentalize sex and want to have it even when there is a loss of respect, just because they simply want sex!
> 
> The same women (the ones I know personally, I mean) would NOT still have sex if they had lost _physical attraction_ to their man.
> 
> I'm not saying this describes all women. Just offering some other examples.


Do you think this also would occur in a long term monogamous relationship?

I could see it short term or while dating, but not long term. IMO.

For example, I could see modern day porn stars not really liking each other or not respecting each other, still having great sex, but not if they were married for 25 years.

I think long term marriages are like a long term anything. I bought a repossessed Ferrari 308 many years ago. When I first drove it I felt like I was literally in heaven. It's a wonder I didn't have an orgasm while driving.
20 some years later I drive it MAYBE once or twice a year just to maintain it.

I believe long term sexual relationships are the same. There MUST be something other than physical attraction keeping you in the game. It transitions to a much deeper level. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.

Respect is part of that.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Women can not be sexually attracted to a man they don't respect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Faithful Wife said:


> *Lack of respect is kind of vague, however.* If a man I was highly sexually attracted to did not have my respect because he was a criminal, a dangerous psycho, or violent weirdo, etc. then no, I'd never have sex with him regardless of attraction.
> 
> I know this thread wasn't about casual sex, so maybe @BetrayedDad meant that women in LTR's won't remain sexually attracted to a man they don't respect.


Fair point, I think everyone's definition of what commands respect is probably different depending on their needs.

Even criminals, a dangerous psycho, or violent weirdos can command respect. Respect is a machismo trait usually commanded by the alphas of the pack. People who present a STRONG image WHETHER GOOD OR BAD. Doesn't matter if her runs a fortune 500 business or a gang. Someone you look at and know better than to trifle with. A man you know wouldn't put up with garbage from anyone including you but at the same time has the ability to protect you either physically, financially or both.

If you feel like the man you are sleeping with is weak, impotent, unable to protect you, a doormat, easily duped, broke, stupid, etc. etc. I don't care if he looks like Channing Tatum, the woman will not respect him and will easily lose all sexual attraction. Women simply tend to see more past the physical appearance to what's underneath than men do. They need that mental stimulation. Obviously, there are exceptions but we're all speaking in generalities here.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> If you feel like the man you are sleeping with is weak, impotent, unable to protect you, a doormat, easily duped, broke, stupid, etc. etc. I don't care if he looks like Channing Tatum, the woman will not respect him and will easily lose all sexual attraction. Women simply tend to see more past the physical appearance to what's underneath than men do. They need that mental stimulation. Obviously, there are exceptions but we're all speaking in generalities here.


Sorry I still gotta disagree and I wouldn't say they are "exceptions". 

Just as there are men who will chase a beautiful but horrible woman to the ends of the earth, no matter what she does to him....there are women (not exceptions) who will chase a beautiful but idiotic man to the ends of the earth, no matter what he does to her.

I mean haven't you seen it yourself? I'm surprised if not. It is not uncommon at all. I'm not saying these are particularly bright women, just as men who chase horrible women are typically not that bright either.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> Do you think this also would occur in a long term monogamous relationship?


I think there is still an old sticking point here, which is that you (I think) and so many other men, believe the male sex drive is stronger than the female sex drive. I think you believe this due to your generation and your personal experiences....but there is so much more going on out there with women. 

Women who are extremely sexual will tend to want to have sex, regardless of what else is going on. Now it is certainly true that many women will lose all sexual attraction if they lose respect....but just as many will not, if she was a highly sexual woman to begin with. This could be said about a man and most men would agree. But I say it about women and men at TAM disagree...however, men I've known personally would totally agree because they've seen women do it, too. TAM is still the land of undersexed men and oversexed women, after all. 

I don't even want to recount the absolute idiotic crap that I have seen go down between some of my female friends and men in their lives, only to have her still be obsessed with f*cking him. And yes I mean in long term monogamous relationships. If the sex was good and he is hot to her physically....then him being a complete idiot - although she wouldn't like it and would fight about the other things in the relationship - still did not stop her from wanting sex all the time. I'm not talking about just one friend. Throughout my life, I've known so many women like this.

Ultimately these relationships and marriages will typically break up, because the problems are of the type that cannot be solved (such as him being a complete tool). But the sex was always there right up until the end and even sometimes after the relationship was over.

For myself...I don't actually know how I would feel or what I would do because no man I've ever been with has lost my respect.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think there is still an old sticking point here, which is that you (I think) and so many other men, believe the male sex drive is stronger than the female sex drive. I think you believe this due to your generation and your personal experiences....but there is so much more going on out there with women.
> 
> Women who are extremely sexual will tend to want to have sex, regardless of what else is going on. Now it is certainly true that many women will lose all sexual attraction if they lose respect....but just as many will not, if she was a highly sexual woman to begin with. This could be said about a man and most men would agree. But I say it about women and men at TAM disagree...however, men I've known personally would totally agree because they've seen women do it, too. TAM is still the land of undersexed men and oversexed women, after all.
> 
> ...


Thanks. This is all very interesting!
Maybe a guy can be a tool and still be respected.
In my mind, not being respected means that I appear weak in the other persons mind. I can't imagine a woman being hot for a man that they see as weak.
When I cannot control my emotions (regardless of what they are) I can see my wife lose respect for me. This is the one thing I try the hardest to fight to control.

Regardless, thanks for letting me see your view clearly.


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## HD48 (Jan 14, 2017)

I believe that men have a distinct need to be respected. I know I do. But that's not a big thing if you're worthy of respect. Respect isn't something you campaign for. You either have earned it, or you haven't. 

Sexual attraction is another thing that isn't just based on how someone looks. We all know the grass withers and the flower fades. Someone's essence coupled with their appearance produces sexual attraction for me. I am much more attracted to someone who is "pretty" who just "has something about them" that makes me curious, than someone who is a "10" physically, but who is aloof and unapproachable. But, having said that, sexual attraction is absolutely mandatory. As a man, I expect to present myself as attractive to my wife. I owe her that. I want to fight aging tooth and nail. I may have to keep my hair buzz cut due to the fact that I don't have as much hair as I used to when I was 25(I'm 45), but I DON'T have to have a beer belly or let my hair look like a forest on my body. It is possible to have a lean, ripped abdomen, even at my age, it just takes dedication and work . I want my wife to desire me AND respect me.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> For the record, my intent with that post was to point out that the fears and limits that OP faces are exactly the same as a lot of women face.


You could easily have posted that in one sentence. I'd have been fine with that. You chose to circumvent directness and forfeit understanding to make some point, which actually is below in the third part of your response. 

That's what I was reading, animosity for some reason. I believed it was due to your dissatisfaction with your life. Rarely is someone's vitriol toward another due to the object of their expressions. 

Can I extrapolate and say that you find that your husband is less attracted to you now, than you'd like? Is that a fair guess? 




wild jade said:


> In other words, there's nothing really to fear but fear itself.


I agree with this saying. I wonder how those who have a phobia feel about it? 

In this thread, I don't know what fear you are speaking about. I think the fear I showed was about making a similar mistake to my past. Yes, I'm sure both men and women have fear they will make the same or similar mistakes as the did in the past. 

I actually like it when someone asks if I am afraid of something they think they see. That's fine and should be done more often for all. 



wild jade said:


> The limitations of choice are in response to a post where he said one of the biggest problems he faced was that he was much less attracted to older women as they grow older because he wants the same things as he did when he was younger.


No, I don't want the same things I did when I was younger. I don't think the same. I have lived and experienced many things I did not then. It's simply impossible for me to want the same things, even in a woman. I have a difficult time connecting with women who are, it seems, beyond a certain number of years younger. A lack of connection is a turn off, not a turn on for me. 

If you suspect things, ask me. I have no reason to lie.



wild jade said:


> Sometimes it's worth considering whether perspectives are worth updating.


I agree.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> Do you think this also would occur in a long term monogamous relationship?
> 
> I could see it short term or while dating, but not long term. IMO.
> 
> ...


Zackly! I mean, exactly. Darn colloquialisms. :grin2:


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> Thanks. This is all very interesting!
> Maybe a guy can be a tool and still be respected.
> In my mind, not being respected means that I appear weak in the other persons mind. I can't imagine a woman being hot for a man that they see as weak.
> When I cannot control my emotions (regardless of what they are) I can see my wife lose respect for me. This is the one thing I try the hardest to fight to control.
> ...


That was a great post, @Faithful Wife. The shorter one I "liked" was really helpful, as well. Thanks.

This post made me reread it and consider it from another angle. Ump, I never liked the word, "weak". It is very general and feels like in one word, a man is not a man, but is stripped of his manhood and all that encompasses. Like his personal dignity is completely gone, but that's perception from outside and may not reflect his true inner feelings.

Other than that, I tend to agree.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> What if you have neither?


Neither.

Neither/Nor

I like Nether, that warm Scenty Place, that finds a Home for my Nose.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

SunCMars said:


> Neither.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You're back. Some of us thought you left or turned into another poster.


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