# Religious Inspiration



## draconis

LOVE/MARRIAGE

BIBLE

Ephesians 5 (King James Version)

28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 

33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Colossians 3 (King James Version)

18Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. 

19Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. 

20Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. 

21Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged. 

QU'RAN

5. The Table Spread (Al-Máída)
005.005 This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.


BUDDHIST

'Compassion and love are not mere luxuries. 
As the source both of inner and external peace, 
they are fundamental to the continued survival of our species.'
His Holiness the XIV Dalai Lama

LOVE 
The definition of love in Buddhism is: wanting others to be happy. 
This love is unconditional and it requires a lot of courage and acceptance (including self-acceptance). 
The "near enemy" of love, or a quality which appears similar, but is more an opposite is: conditional love (selfish love, see also the page on attachment). 
The opposite is wanting others to be unhappy: anger, hatred. 
A result which one needs to avoid is: attachment.

This definition means that 'love' in Buddhism refers to something quite different from the ordinary term of love which is usually about attachment, more or less successful relationships and sex; all of which are rarely without self-interest. Instead, in Buddhism it refers to de-tachment and the unselfish interest in others' welfare. 

'Even offering three hundred bowls of food three times a day does not match the spiritual merit gained in one moment of love.' 
Nagarjuna 

"If there is love, there is hope that one may have real families, real brotherhood, real equanimity, real peace. If the love within your mind is lost and you see other beings as enemies, then no matter how much knowledge or education or material comfort you have, only suffering and confusion will ensue"
His Holiness the Dalai Lama from 'The little book of Buddhism' 


The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings. .
Buddha

CONFUCIUS

Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire. 
Confucius 

Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it. 
Confucius 

HINDU
Only in a world of love can we unfold and grow

When love was to himself yet new and warm
And stainless, played like morning with a flower
Ruru with his young bride Priyumvada.
Fresh-cheeked and dew-eyed white Priyumvada
Opened her budded heart of crimson bloom
To love, to Ruru; Ruru, a happy flood
Of passion round a lotus dancing thrilled,
Blinded with his soul's waves Priyumvada.


WICCA

As a man loveth a woman, by mastering her, so the Wicca should love the Gods, by being mastered by them.
Book of Shadows The Old Laws(1961)~Gardner

OTHER NOTABLES

There is more hunger for love and appreciation in this world than for bread.
Mother Teresa

The greatest science in the world; in heaven and on earth; is love.
Mother Teresa

Fear less, hope more, eat less, chew more, whine less, breathe more, talk less, say more, love more, and all good things will be yours.
Swedish Proverb

To be loved, be lovable.
Ovid

Absence sharpens love, presence strengthens it.
English proverb

~~Compiled by draconis~~


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## mamab

That was interesting, draconis. So, what were you trying to say in all that? Personally, I have problems with some of it, because they are not my beliefs, but it's interesting to see what others say about love.


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## draconis

First I wanted to start a thread using religion as a thread for inspiration to relationships. I wanted to include all I could (I study religion as a hobby). I also wanted to say that love was universal.

draconis


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## mamab

Well, I agree that religion can have a great influence on relationships, I just never thought about how other religions viewed it.


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## draconis

mamab ~ If you ever wanted I'd do a bible study here on whatever topic was needed, with or without any other religion involved. Name a topic and we can start a bible group!

draconis


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## TGolbus

I would love to hear more of free will versus destiny...is this a good place to start?


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## Blanca

TGolbus said:


> I would love to hear more of free will versus destiny...is this a good place to start?


I took a religion class on free will vs. destiny once. it was really interesting. the professor thought everything was destiny b/c, he said, he couldnt imagine a situation where anyone had a thought that wasnt determined on their past experiences. He said he could not even conceive of a "free" thought. He ended up convincing me.


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## draconis

Even God can change his mind.

draconis


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## Blanca

draconis said:


> Even God can change his mind.
> 
> draconis


what do you mean?


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## GAsoccerman

Drac, I think it is great you have studied many religions, I have done the same while I was in college.

It is interesting how they intertwine and yet are so different.

I hope it is a real eye opener for some.

Live is full of diversity and you must be versitile to move forward.

Understanding your past and others past will help shape your future.

Kudo's.


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## draconis

ljtseng said:


> what do you mean?


Abraham's barter with God is one example

Genesis 18:20-32 (King James Version) 

20And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 

21I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. 

22And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. 

23And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 

24Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 

25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 

26And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. 

27And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and ashes: 

28Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. 

29And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. 

30And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 

31And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. 

32And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.


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## draconis

This is the reason they have advanced her (Mother Teresa) so fast to sainthood. I think it is important that we make the effort everyday.

draconis


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## Blanca

draconis said:


> Abraham's barter with God is one example


I dont get how this passage is an example of free will vs. determinism. It is just an example of an exchange of communication between Abraham and God. 

Are you saying that God can change his own mind and so there is free will? And so in the above passage are you assuming that God changed his mind at some point?


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## draconis

ljtseng said:


> I dont get how this passage is an example of free will vs. determinism. It is just an example of an exchange of communication between Abraham and God.
> 
> Are you saying that God can change his own mind and so there is free will? And so in the above passage are you assuming that God changed his mind at some point?


God wanted Abraham to find fifty good people, yet allowed himself to be talked down to ten. Now as many parts of the bible the passage can be taken many ways. The set with Job, Satan and God whereas God doesn't know where Satan had been, And Satan Challenges God's sevant Job (Kind of a bad bet if God knew he would lose? Though the argument is Satan liked the misery, but it only reinforced Job and many others. Why would God test Job, Moses, Adam, Eve, Cain, Isiah etc if he knew how they would do in the tests? 

Let me ask you, what fruit did Adam and Eve eat in the Garden of Eden?

draconis


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## Blanca

draconis said:


> God wanted Abraham to find fifty good people, yet allowed himself to be talked down to ten.


Well, to get on the same page here, I'm not really talking about whether God can or cant change his mind. Im talking about what causes that change, whether it was a "free" choice, i.e. ones past and biological makeup had nothing to do with it, or whether the choice was determined by the nature/nurture of that persons' past. 

So even if Gods mind was changed in this situation, I would argue that it was determined to be that way from the beginning and that nothing really 'changed'. 



draconis said:


> (Kind of a bad bet if God knew he would lose?... Why would God test Job, Moses, Adam, Eve, Cain, Isiah etc if he knew how they would do in the tests?


I'm not talking about the omnipotence of God. What Job, Moses, Adam, Eve, Cain, Isaiah, and yes, even God, all did in each of those situations was determined by the nature/nurture of their past. Their response to God, and Gods decision to test them, was determined to happen that way. Now whether or not God knew that, and why he did it if he already knew it, well, that's another topic.



draconis said:


> Let me ask you, what fruit did Adam and Eve eat in the Garden of Eden?


I've heard it was sex. but then i dont really know.


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## voivod

okay. question. was satan one of God's creations?


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## Blanca

voivod said:


> okay. question. was satan one of God's creations?


I've heard Satan was his son, yes. That is an interesting spin, isnt it. How can anything evil come out of god??? but then, if you think about it, all evil is Gods creation.


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## voivod

ljtseng said:


> I've heard Satan was his son, yes. That is an interesting spin, isnt it. How can anything evil come out of god??? but then, if you think about it, all evil is Gods creation.


satan had/has God-like powers didn't/doesn't he? because satan is not a mortal.

hey, sorry, i'm not trying to highjack this thread. i just became very interested in religion sept. 2nd of this year. i like to hear/read other people's ideas about God.


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## draconis

Satan or the Morning Star was an Arch Angel and second to God, by all bible, acrophila etc text.

The Fruit was the fruit of knowledge. Whwn Adam and Eve eat that they np longer did things by instict, they had thought, and reason. If you believe in manifest destiny why bother with anything, even church, the bible, prayer, even this thread because whether you will go to heaven or not has been determined.

Without reading other texts not put into the bible parts of the bible don't make sense like the two creation stories of man, The fact Adam and Eve had 3 sons but they married girls.

draconis


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## Blanca

draconis said:


> If you believe in manifest destiny why bother with anything, even church, the bible, prayer, even this thread because whether you will go to heaven or not has been determined.


I dont bother. I simply live out my determined destiny . To say that I choose to bother with these things would imply I'm making a "free" choice. However, I am not making a "free" choice. My choice to do any of the above is determined by my biological makeup and my nurture. If I choose to do nothing, that also was determined from the beginning. 

Just as the body is determined on its path before it even leaves the mothers womb, so does the mind follow the same determination.


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## Blanca

voivod said:


> i just became very interested in religion sept. 2nd of this year. i like to hear/read other people's ideas about God.


If you're really interested in religion then you might be interested to know that in the original hebrew in the old testament, the word in Genesis 1:1, is not _created_ its _organized._

Also, the correct phrase of Genesis 1:1 is "In _*a*_ beginning..." not "_*the*_ beginning..." Implying there is more then one beginning. 

Furthermore, in the old testament biblical hebrew, the word _God_ is plural in form, _Gods_. 

And the title of the old testament, is "A Beginning." i think that is so beautiful. 

Just little words and little changes, but it puts such a spin on things, i think.


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## draconis

ljtseng said:


> I dont bother. I simply live out my determined destiny . To say that I choose to bother with these things would imply I'm making a "free" choice. However, I am not making a "free" choice. My choice to do any of the above is determined by my biological makeup and my nurture. If I choose to do nothing, that also was determined from the beginning.
> 
> Just as the body is determined on its path before it even leaves the mothers womb, so does the mind follow the same determination.


*So what you are saying is that if someone cheats, murders, etc it really isn't their fault that path was chosen for them?*

John 5:29 (King James Version)

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

Mark 16:16 (King James Version)

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

King James Version (KJV) 
John 3:18, 36

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Proverbs 3:13 (King James Version)

13Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

John 1:12 (King James Version)

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Matthew 7:21 (King James Version)

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 5:24 (King James Version)

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

James 5:18-17

15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 

16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. 

17Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. 



*So according to the Bible WE can save ourselves by words, deeds, and belief, What would it matter if we are choosen to live a path? Why would the Bible say those that believe?*



draconis


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## Blanca

draconis said:


> *So what you are saying is that if someone cheats, murders, etc it really isn't their fault that path was chosen for them?*


No, I never said the path was chosen _for_ anyone. I said ones' path is determined. That doesnt necessarily mean one is not responsible for ones actions. That is another argument, though. 



draconis said:


> *What would it matter if we are choosen to live a path?*


Well, again, that statement is assuming that a determined path is chosen by someone else. A determined path could be chosen by someone else, or a determined path could be chosen by the person. Just b/c the path is determined does not necessarily mean it was not chosen by the person.


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## draconis

So if you chose your own path isn't that free will, even if some onmipotent knows what you will chose?

draconis


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## Blanca

draconis said:


> So if you chose your own path isn't that free will


I don't think it is free will. Princeton defines free will as, "the power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies." _Unconstrained by external agencies_. How is it even possible to make a choice free from ones external agencies? By that definition, in my opinion, God is ruled out as negligible. 

On the other hand, princeton defines determinism as, "a philosophical theory holding that all events are inevitable consequences of antecedent sufficient causes;" Each person is born into a very specific biological design, into a very specific external environment, that will forever directly affected every single choice that is made, for their entire life. To say that a person can dissociate from what they were born into, and make a 'free' choice, is inconceivable to me. 

Ones' biological makeup and external environment defines each person. It _is_ who one is. _To be_ is an eternal state. We are the same from the beginning to the end. We are here, in my opinion, _to know_ who we are. 



draconis said:


> even if some onmipotent knows what you will chose?


I'm going to guess you know what your kids will do in a variety of situations. And you probably know how to approach them based on who they are. God is no different. He knows us very much like a parent knows their child.


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## IanIronwood

Interesting take, but I would have chosen a much, much different Wiccan quote. Firstly, Gardner isn't often quoted and isn't known outside of the Gardnarians -- who don't pay much attention to his original work, anyway.

But this one, from the Charge of the Goddess, I often find inspirational:

"For behold! All acts of love and pleasure are My sacrifice!"


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