# I really need advice on what is normal



## m.t.t

I wanted to talk this over with a friend but realized I want honest in the know advice from my TAM friends. I don't know if this is a normal start of a relationship.

I have been very happy and settled with being single and after a couple of weeks of going on dates with someone earlier in the year, I realized that I'm not going to date anyone unless it is a really good match in values and lifestyle and I'm really attracted to them. I'm not attracted to many people. So I have been on the happy single train.

Ok. So I had still my dating profile active but hadn't even looked at it in months. I clicked onto it a couple of weeks ago and there was a message from someone that I was instantly hit with a wow. Not a model good looking wow but a guy that I was just attracted to. This never happens usually I'm like they are ok. I was so interested I was super careful to press the like instead of randomly losing him with a wrong tap of the screen.

So I'm very cautious with who gets my details, I'm always skeptical. I didn't give out my number but agreed to a facetime meeting (which I have never done before. Normally I would go for coffee) We are in COVID lockdown at the moment where I am.

So this guy and I just click big time. In our initial facetime, I thought that he talked too much and didn't let me get a word in. So I was mildly disappointed but we kept talking. I realized then that he was just nervous and selling himself. He feels like he is someone special. We have facetimed every day since and text and talked on the phone but mostly text and facetime for hours while we discuss and deep dive into everything. I'm almost embarrassed to admit we are often talking for hours. We even just facetime while I'm working in the studio on a painting and he just sits and draws and we chat.

This thing between us has snowballed fast! He is very open with his feelings and he has not held back in telling me that he is smitten with me. He has shown me his world, added, me in his private Instagram. He has all of his sisters on his Instagram. His world checks out. I really like this guy he feels like a version of myself if that's not weird to say. I show him less and I shut down anything I don't feel comfortable sharing yet, he responds with wanting to understand why but is respectful.

But because we haven't met in person and facetime is behind a screen I'm very cautious that all of his intenseness is a worry. I'm holding back because that is sensible but I'm feeling the same way. Is the fact that he is all smitten with someone and not afraid to voice it a bad thing? I've never really been asked how I feel if I'm comfortable talking about something etc.

I have never experienced this before. I have never really had a loving relationship so I am not familiar with the kind words, expressions of interest. He shows me his house, his drawings, his world. I feel it's genuine but I'm very cautious that I might be being played or he might be a crazy person. He is 57, creative, funny, builds things, likes to talk things through, I'm very attracted to him, he can cook, his house looks like my house would look. He is almost too good to be true and if we didn't facetime constantly I would not believe it. I look back on his Instagram and he is consistent in who he is over the years.

We have organized to meet this Saturday. I am worried but excited and I'm trying to tame the feeling that this guy is my right guy but it just feels like nothing I have never experienced before. I don't gush at people, I'm more reserved and cautious, this guy is like a big friendly puppy and I love it. I should say that he hasnt done anything that I find suspicious yet apart from being so open with his feelings. I'm just enjoying this with no expectations if this does build into something it is more of a worry for me. He told me he is telling his sister about me today. This sister I can see from her Instagram follows and is followed by many of my contemporaries. I just worry as I feel like he is being very open and full on.


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## SunnyT

Well, it sounds like you have a good take on it. Been there done that. H and I met online....long distance, 1100 miles. I had to learn to trust his openness, his talkativeness, his sincerity, all of it. I really had to be cautious too. I had to get used to someone WANTING to talk to me, to someone saying nice things to me, asking what I think and what I want.... all completely new and scary to me. I was kind of giddy on the inside, but I didn't trust that he was just a guy saying what a girl wanted to hear. We too talked for hours, all the big stuff and all the little stuff. 

So I went to meet him. I went with the idea that it should be a fun weekend....and if it was off, or not right.... then that was ok. It was good for me to grow and learn to trust myself and to work these things out. 

That was 15 years ago. We've married, combined families into a huge conglomerate. He never stops talking...which I really, really love. He is all those things he was when I went to meet him. I used to ask myself while "dating" him, if it's "all good". If I'm enhancing my life.... well ya. It is STILL all good. 

So go meet him. Because what if he IS the right guy? What if he really is genuine? What if it's all good, forever???


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## 3Xnocharm

I’m glad that you have found somebody that you’re excited about! Just keep your common sense, is about the best advice I can offer. I’ve never hit it off virtually with anyone like that. I would be nervous meeting up because for me, the way a man smells and how he kisses are both crucial components of attraction for me. I’ve chatted with guys from online dating sites who I thought I’d connected with, and then when we met face to face... crickets. I hope since you’ve been face timing so much that it just continues naturally in person! 

Be sure to update us! 


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## m.t.t

Hi guys, we are still planning to catch up on Saturday. But I’m starting to feel a bit uneasy about a couple of things. I’m not sure if it’s me or this is an issue. But I think it is.

It was discussed if we would have sex when we meet up. I get that we have been talking a lot over video chat but I said that I wouldn't go there. But I would be up for kissing if we felt the connection. The thing is that he is saying he is fine with that but is challenging me in it. Asking why I want to wait, that he respects that, but if we are going to be together why wouldn’t we have sex If we both liked each other in that way? That he bonds through sex and as we can’t see each other often it would be better not to wait but he respects my decision. But then he will call it rules in a joking way.

The other thing is that he told me today is that he is thinking of moving closer to me. I like the idea in the fu if all goes well but he started going on and on about the logistics and how difficult it will be to see me with where I live and my child and how I will fit him into my life. It got very intense and he was going back and forth with the yes and no of it all over video chat. We have t even met in person yet. It seems a bit off. He is also doing the same with meeting up in a few days. He will say it’s a long way are you sure? Do you want to stay for the weekend ? I know you said no to sex but is that a firm no? Why do you feel like we should wait if we have the connection already?

I got very overwhelmed with what felt like angst and drama. I told him that it was making me feel stressed, that it feels like he isn’t quiet ready for a relationship atm. If he needed a bit more time before we meet up then that’s ok I will still be here. But I can’t-do the back and forth intensity of decisions that are far too early to make. I said let’s give it 3 months and then see if you want to move closer. He told me after my lecture he decided that I was too assertive or somthing and he thought that he wouldn’t continue but he was fine after a min but then said in the past he would have hung up on me, thrown the phone on the floor and called me a *****! But that he doesn’t deal with things like that anymore. It was a bit concerning that he would share that with me.

He felt that I was being really tough on him. Maybe I was but we haven’t met yet and the drama over moving to be closer to me seems unnecessary and now a bit unbalanced?

he said he doesn’t want to get any more attached if we are not going to work because he is already so invested in me. So he is working years Ahead. I keep saying that I like Thomas thoughts but let’s not stress over these things and just enjoy getting to know one another. I feel like he is trying to lock me down maybe ? 

we finished up the video chat tonight with him asking if he should buy food for when we meet up. The thing is we have talked about it many times and what he would buy. It felt like yet another yes no thing over the weekend and meeting. I just said yes why wouldn’t you be as I though we had decided ?

What do you guys think ? Im
Feeling a bit exhausted. He is wanting to video chat both day and again at night which I have told him is difficult with work. He has told me as I wasn’t around last Sunday for a few hours he was worried I was having dinner with my ex and he got all stressed out about it.

Is this guy just a bit intense? I really like him. The daytime chats are always great but at night he gets more moody or somthing. Maybe we are too tired and we shouldn’t be taking so late but usually we find it hard to finish taking to one another. He is always so reluctant to hang up. Though tonight when I suggest we should sleep he said fine and basically hung up. Didn’t say goodnight.


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## Mr.Married

Moving too fast
Not yet based in reality
Pressure for sex
Romance over riding reason

You need to slow down. You haven’t even seen this guy face to face. Reality and screen time are two very different things. Your getting carried away.


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## WandaJ

wow, way too fast on his part. He does sounds pushy and needy. Not good. He already gives you a lot of drama and emotional blackmail, and you haven't met yet in person.

Be careful. These are your warning signs.


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## lucy999

No. He's fine when you agree with him. Then when you don't he gets all pissy. 

No. I would cancel the date, frankly.

The pushing for sex and talking about moving closer to you is scary.


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## 3Xnocharm

This guy is a nope. Thank goodness you are seeing these things now! The pressure for sex instead of letting things happen naturally… Talking about moving near you… It’s all very alarming. You’d be wise to put him in the rearview. 


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## Cooper

Good grief how can you even wonder if things are "normal". The alarm bells ringing in your head are there for a reason, listen to them!

The guy is trying to get laid and then will never see you again, that's why he is pushing for sex. You know why he is crying about the distance? He wants to guilt you into sex by making you feel he is making a great sacrifice. Afterward he will claim the distance is just too much and he can't do it, or he suddenly decide it's too risky to travel because of the virus so can't see you again.....until he gets horny that is.

Way way way too many red flags, please don't let this guy manipulate and take advantage of you


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## Tomara

I 100% agree with the others. There are red flags flying all over the place. He sounds scary to me. Next time, don’t let a total stranger have your phone number that fast, I know I know Covid and all but with very little info he can find out where you live! I have been stalked before so I was very cautious after that. Be safe.


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## Openminded

No, no, no. Back away.

ETA: He’s moving way too fast. My opinion? He’s playing you. You’re not very long out of a bad relationship. You don’t need this.


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## m.t.t

Thanks, for your replies, I wrote this after we video chatted last night. I didn't sleep much.

I don't think he is playing me for sex. But I do think his idea of sex and mine are different. I think a lot of people from what I hear give out sex pretty easily share photos etc. I'm very open-minded but not with myself.

What I get from him is that he is used to instant relationships. Where you sleep together quickly and then that's it you are together and basically moved in. He seems to have had a few long term relationships like this. His last one went for 9 years.

Emotionally I have felt myself pull back. He seems to be someone that needs to talk everything over in detail and pull it apart. I love that but not about a new relationship. I said that maybe he needs to talk it over with one of his sisters any stress that he is feeling about us. His overanalyzing is what is exhausting me. But in every other way I think e is a great match.

The woman that I went on a few dates earlier in the year was a bit the same. She was also full-on too. I'm not used to it. I have realized that I don't get carried away. I'm a bit more reserved and careful. One thing that I am wondering is this man is a trans man. I have never dated a tran s man or had one in my life that I know of. You can't really tell so maybe I have. But it may account for the intensity and over-analyzing. I think women from what I have experienced are more prone to this.


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## m.t.t

Openminded said:


> No, no, no. Back away.
> 
> ETA: He’s moving way too fast. My opinion? He’s playing you. You’re not very long out of a bad relationship. You don’t need this.


I don't need this no. I have been divorced for around close to 2 years. I have no desire to be in a relationship but with someone that ticks all the boxes I would be willing to go there. I don't think I'm being played for sex but it is a possibility. But I'm sure that he could play a much easier game than with me. Sex is easy to get especially for a trans man.


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## m.t.t

3Xnocharm said:


> This guy is a nope. Thank goodness you are seeing these things now! The pressure for sex instead of letting things happen naturally… Talking about moving near you… It’s all very alarming. You’d be wise to put him in the rearview.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I really appreciate your input. You have been a great support to me. Thank you ! 

I'm not sure though if I want to review mirror him just yet. I'm super sensitive and quick to pull back. I'm thinking of pulling out of Saturday and just watching this one. I have a feeling he is trying to lock me down. I have come to realize that I'm quite a catch  I don't need to settle for crumbs.


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## Casual Observer

m.t.t said:


> I don't think he is playing me for sex. But I do think his idea of sex and mine are different. I think a lot of people from what I hear give out sex pretty easily share photos etc. I'm very open-minded but not with myself.


If I were single again, it would be very important to know that, eventually, physical intimacy would be an important part of our relationship. I would be probing about past relationships, looking for red flags that might signal a belief that sexuality was something she was either past or didn't see as being important. But I would not push knowing such things on the first couple of dates!!!! 

This guy seems just a bit too here-and-now. He wants a guarantee for something that's more personal than anything else you can offer, which makes it a lot less personal. It's OK to have rules and things you'd wait for before sex would be part of a relationship. If that's how you feel. Someone who feels otherwise might not be a good match.


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## lucy999

Just please be careful. Will you let us know how the date went?


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## WandaJ

He just moving too fast that’s what gives us all red flags. You haven’t even met yet and he already talking about moving closer. Doesn’t it suffocate you a bit?


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## m.t.t

WandaJ said:


> He just moving too fast that’s what gives us all red flags. You haven’t even met yet and he already talking about moving closer. Doesn’t it suffocate you a bit?


Yes I feel suffocated! He seems to have more of a need for contact than I do. It not something women seem to usually complain about but I don’t think this is a controll thing as I would with some guys but more he is very very keen on me.


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## m.t.t

Casual Observer said:


> If I were single again, it would be very important to know that, eventually, physical intimacy would be an important part of our relationship. I would be probing about past relationships, looking for red flags that might signal a belief that sexuality was something she was either past or didn't see as being important. But I would not push knowing such things on the first couple of dates!!!!
> 
> This guy seems just a bit too here-and-now. He wants a guarantee for something that's more personal than anything else you can offer, which makes it a lot less personal. It's OK to have rules and things you'd wait for before sex would be part of a relationship. If that's how you feel. Someone who feels otherwise might not be a good match.


Yes I agree. I think and he has brought this up that with his last relationship she no longer found him desirable. He transitioned late and they met before he started to transition and she prefered butch women not men. So I’m guessing there is also a lot of anxiety for him if I am going to be into him in that way.


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## Livvie

I'd run away as fast as I could. None of this sounds normal.


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## WandaJ

@m.t.t Be careful. If something feels too good to be true than maybe there is a reason. 
His rushing things is not normal. He admires you but starts pouting the moment you have different opinion. Doesn’t have a sense of boundaries. 
If you already feel like suffocating, that feeling will only increase with time when he becomes more possessive of you.


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## GC1234

He seems to be a little much too soon. I dated a guy like that once...he was so intense, felt like I couldn't breathe. Turns out, he was still talking to his ex girlfriend while we were together, and as soon as I broke up with him, they got back together...so yeah, be careful with those types.


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## 3Xnocharm

I feel like you are making excuses for him, because it feels good to you to have somebody who seems so interested in and so into you. These are not small things you are seeing and describing. Learn from your past mistakes. 


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## m.t.t

3Xnocharm said:


> I feel like you are making excuses for him, because it feels good to you to have somebody who seems so interested in and so into you. These are not small things you are seeing and describing. Learn from your past mistakes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you I hear where you are coming from. You could be right.

We spoke this morning and he brought up the conversation from last night.

He said he didn't mean to freak me out about the discussion around moving closer to me. He said that he was just letting me know that he had thought about what if, and because of circumstances have him considering moving back out of the city he wondered what renting was like around my area. We live an hour away from one another. He doesn't have to live where he does because he is also self-employed. He said that he is really excited to meet someone he feels a connection with and is just excited and not afraid to admit he has thought about moving closer. But he knows it sounds a bit wacko.

The sex thing. I have some personal issues around. I'm a childhood survivor. I have come to understand through extensive therapy that I have some issues around my connection with people and subtle flirting. It's not something that I'm aware of really or I do on purpose but it can be confusing to people. I have tried to work on this, but I put out a vibe that I'm the cool girl that is down for things. I'm also in the arts so I'm surrounded by people that are out there and comfortable with their sexuality etc. I'm only comfortable with someone inside of a relationship. This is hard to explain and is apparently common with children that have been mistreated in this way. I have a few boundary issues because of this. So I told him that no I'm not down for anything like that and his response was not to sulk but he wanted to discuss it. Why I was so firm on waiting and what that meant for me. Why I wouldn't give in to sex if we did feel like we connected in that way. He did say that he needs a partner that is comfortable with sex as it's important to him. I said it's very important to me too, but I need to feel comfortable, that I have firm boundaries around it and he wanted to know why and if we should talk about it. But in him wanting to talk about it and analyze it I felt questioned and pressured. I want him to know that I am interested in him but I'm not going to jump into bed with him straight away. He has said he will wait until I am ready and comfortable that he respects how I feel but he is confused as to why you would wait if you are both feeling it. That is why I feel the pressure.

we will lay in bed at night skyping for hours even after midnight and we just talk about everything. It's not sexual but we have discussed sex but not in a sexting way just an open discussion about sex and sexuality. I was fine with that but think laying in bed and video chatting for 4 hours or so night after night has escalated things in a strange way. WE are also way overtired and it's just silly to do this but we seem to not stop talking. When we video chat during the day when I'm painting we have less intense conversations they are great and relaxed and fun.

So I have decided to still meet him in person. HE does have some boundary issues but then again so did I. I'm not heavily invested in this working, I like him a lot but I'm not going to chase or stand still for the wrong person. I love the life I have now and I feel like I'm standing on solid ground. He has to be great for me to let him in any further. If he triggers off another doubt before we meet on Sat then I will pull out. If on Saturday he makes me feel uncomfortable I'm going to not see him again. I am really excited to meet him and I think if I don't my gut tells me I will regret it. This guy is like no other that I have met. I think it's worth seeing how he treats me. I have gotten to the stage I feel brave and No is so easy to say.


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## heartsbeating

lucy999 said:


> Just please be careful. Will you let us know how the date went?


I shall put on my worry-wart hat for a moment. Please ensure you meet in a public place and someone else knows where you are going and who you are meeting.

It may all be fine. Just reading what you have shared, I was getting an uncomfortable feeling. The kind that makes me wanna open a window and climb out. So anyway, use proper judgement - don't lose your head while listening to your heart. And the usual be safe kinda stuff.


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## heartsbeating

As for the sex thing - yeah, he might figure that you have grown emotionally close and sex is the natural next step. If that's not how you feel, and that isn't compatible with him, it would be understandable if his reaction was respecting your choice and acknowledging that wouldn't work for him so he'd move on - I could understand that. However, that you end up feeling some sort of pressure and the explaining involved sounds exhausting. Among other aspects that you have shared. 

I do hope it all goes well. Ultimately, I want you to be safe.


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> I shall put on my worry-wart hat for a moment. Please ensure you meet in a public place and someone else knows where you are going and who you are meeting.
> 
> It may all be fine. Just reading what you have shared, I was getting an uncomfortable feeling. The kind that makes me wanna open a window and climb out. So anyway, use proper judgement - don't lose your head while listening to your heart. And the usual be safe kinda stuff.


Thank you for the concern, I will be. But because of COVID we can't hang around outdoors. I will be meeting him out but then if I feel comfortable I will go back to his place for lunch. Something I would never do usually. Is this an instinct or something that I wrote?


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> Thank you for the concern, I will be. But because of COVID we can't hang around outdoors. I will be meeting him out but then if I feel comfortable I will go back to his place for lunch. Something I would never do usually. Is this an instinct or something that I wrote?


I couldn't claim it to be instincts - especially given this medium; a forum. Granted, while you have provided positive aspects, I'm pinpointing the potential 'negative' here. And sorry, I don't mean to rain on your parade... just looking to what have you decided is important to share.

Your feelings and reactions:

He feels like he is someone special.
He is almost too good to be true.
I got very overwhelmed with what felt like angst and drama.
I'm feeling a bit exhausted.
Emotionally I have felt myself pull back.
His over-analyzing is what is exhausting me.
It seems a bit off.
I have a feeling he is trying to lock me down.
Yes I feel suffocated!
His reactions to you:

The thing is that he is saying he is fine with that but is challenging me in it.
He started going on and on about the logistics and how difficult it will be to see me with where I live and my child and how I will fit him into my life.
It got very intense and he was going back and forth with the yes and no of it all over video chat.
He is also doing the same with meeting up in a few days. He will say it’s a long way are you sure? Do you want to stay for the weekend? I know you said no to sex but is that a firm no?
He felt that I was being really tough on him.
He told me after my lecture he decided that I was too assertive or something and he thought that he wouldn’t continue but he was fine after a min but then said in the past he would have hung up on me, thrown the phone on the floor and called me a ***! But that he doesn’t deal with things like that anymore.
He has told me as I wasn’t around last Sunday for a few hours he was worried I was having dinner with my ex and he got all stressed out about it.
At night he gets more moody or something.
He is always so reluctant to hang up. Though tonight when I suggest we should sleep he said fine and basically hung up. Didn’t say goodnight.
So yeah, it's all this that you wrote.


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## heartsbeating

Actually, reading the above makes my whiskers twitch. Listen to your head (and if you feel instincts are valid, that too). I mean, if a girlfriend relayed to me that she felt 'It seems a bit off... I feel suffocated.. he didn't like the assertiveness... and stressed about where I was for a few hours' (in a suspicious / insecure / threatened way). I'd be telling her to steer well-clear.

Your reaction to him is telling. While this may be part of how you handle people getting close to you, which you acknowledge takes you time and you're more reserved, please don't dismiss how you feel. The fact that he seems to be pressing the sex aspect (like I said, which is different if he just called it that you're not going to be compatible because of this), that he didn't like when you were assertive, that in the past he would have thrown a tantrum (okay, I leave room here that maybe he's had personal growth), the perceived moodiness, the suspicion and insecurity.... holy red-flags, Batman!


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> Thank you for the concern, I will be. But because of COVID we can't hang around outdoors. I will be meeting him out but then if I feel comfortable I will go back to his place for lunch. *Something I would never do usually*. Is this an instinct or something that I wrote?


Why would you this time, then?


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> I couldn't claim it to be instincts - especially given this medium; a forum. Granted, while you have provided positive aspects, I'm pinpointing the potential 'negative' here. And sorry, I don't mean to rain on your parade... just looking to what have you decided is important to share.
> 
> Your feelings and reactions:
> 
> He feels like he is someone special.
> He is almost too good to be true.
> I got very overwhelmed with what felt like angst and drama.
> I'm feeling a bit exhausted.
> Emotionally I have felt myself pull back.
> His over-analyzing is what is exhausting me.
> It seems a bit off.
> I have a feeling he is trying to lock me down.
> Yes I feel suffocated!
> His reactions to you:
> 
> The thing is that he is saying he is fine with that but is challenging me in it.
> He started going on and on about the logistics and how difficult it will be to see me with where I live and my child and how I will fit him into my life.
> It got very intense and he was going back and forth with the yes and no of it all over video chat.
> He is also doing the same with meeting up in a few days. He will say it’s a long way are you sure? Do you want to stay for the weekend? I know you said no to sex but is that a firm no?
> He felt that I was being really tough on him.
> He told me after my lecture he decided that I was too assertive or something and he thought that he wouldn’t continue but he was fine after a min but then said in the past he would have hung up on me, thrown the phone on the floor and called me a ***! But that he doesn’t deal with things like that anymore.
> He has told me as I wasn’t around last Sunday for a few hours he was worried I was having dinner with my ex and he got all stressed out about it.
> At night he gets more moody or something.
> He is always so reluctant to hang up. Though tonight when I suggest we should sleep he said fine and basically hung up. Didn’t say goodnight.
> So yeah, it's all this that you wrote.





heartsbeating said:


> Actually, reading the above makes my whiskers twitch. Listen to your head (and if you feel instincts are valid, that too). I mean, if a girlfriend relayed to me that she felt 'It seems a bit off... I feel suffocated.. he didn't like the assertiveness... and stressed about where I was for a few hours' (in a suspicious / insecure / threatened way). I'd be telling her to steer well-clear.
> 
> Your reaction to him is telling. While this may be part of how you handle people getting close to you, which you acknowledge takes you time and you're more reserved, please don't dismiss how you feel. The fact that he seems to be pressing the sex aspect (like I said, which is different if he just called it that you're not going to be compatible because of this), that he didn't like when you were assertive, that in the past he would have thrown a tantrum (okay, I leave room here that maybe he's had personal growth), the perceived moodiness, the suspicion and insecurity.... holy red-flags, Batman!


Thank you for taking so much time to do this for me I'm touched. It does give me a lot of pause. I was planning on having an early night tonight and not video chat. I hadn't told him that yet, but earlier this afternoon he suggested we do an hour only so we don't stay up so late which I'm now thinking is a good idea. It might help to sort out how I'm feeling about meeting this Sat. I'm observing him closely at the moment. I did write the post about what he said at 3 am and I did wonder if I was just overtired freaked out and emotional but maybe not.

Yes I did say that I'm more reserved I'm also a big introvert. I've had many people tell me both males and female friends that I'm very hard to get close to it's like I have big walls and they are super high. I do keep people at bay and I do panic at close emotional intimacy. To be honest I would rather be in a room with a lion as long as he wasn't too hungry!


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> Why would you this time, then?


Because we have another few weeks of restrictions. Part of me tells me that maybe just say no and wait until they are lifted. If he is still around, then fine let's meet, but part fo me tells me that I want to meet him to see if I should say no thanks so I don't invest any more time into this.

Also, his sisters are connected to friends of mine on Instagram. He is close to his sisters, they are all over his Instagram who are a bit older than him and it makes me feel a little bit more confident that he is an ok person to meet.


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## heartsbeating

It's good to take a pause. It's not often that I send messages (called 'conversations' here) ...but I've sent one your way. Take pause, consider things. I'm wishing you the best.


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## lucy999

I would caution you to not go to his house if things are going well on Saturday. This whole thing is moving so fast--too fast. If you have a good time outdoors, leave it at that. Leave the inside, out of public meetings for long down the road.

The No. 1 reason is your safety, of course. But I think it's a good idea to see how he reacts when you end the date on a good note and not do these feel-good marathon sessions.


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## 3Xnocharm

Going to his place= bad bad idea. Don’t do it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GC1234

I don't think it's a good idea to go to a guy's house in the beginning of a rapport/relationship. I think it may put expectations in his head that you may not have, so I would agree with everyone else. The best relationships are those where we take our time and get to know someone. No need to rush.


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## Livvie

GC1234 said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to go to a guy's house in the beginning of a rapport/relationship. I think it may put expectations in his head that you may not have, so I would agree with everyone else. The best relationships are those where we take our time and get to know someone. No need to rush.


And he's already been complaining about how he thinkd sex on the first date is important.

You've never even met this person in real life!! 

Honestly, he doesn't seem very emotionally balanced. I think you are in for big troubles with this person.


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## GC1234

Livvie said:


> And he's already been complaining about how he thinkd sex on the first date is important.
> 
> You've never even met this person in real life!!
> 
> Honestly, he doesn't seem very emotionally balanced. I think you are in for big troubles with this person.


I agree, this guy strikes me as way too intense. I hope I'm wrong, but time will tell.


----------



## Openminded

Don’t assume that because he’s close to his sisters he’s really a good guy. Maybe he is and maybe he isn’t. But he’s pressuring you for sex when you’ve never met him and that’s a red flag. Going back to his house sends a message to him that he can likely talk you into it. And he will continue trying.

Why the great rush to meet up? (And if you’re on lockdown are two strangers supposed to be meeting up at this point?)


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## Livvie

... Adding... meeting in person is very important BEFORE you decide if you even want to have a relationship with this person. True story: years ago when I was newly single I had a wonderful, warm, nice, HOT physical therapist. We had a great connection. And again I've gotta say, he was smoking hot. But, pheromone-ally (new word) he was wrong for me and so I didn't want to pursue that kind of relationship with him.


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## PieceOfSky

Verifying facts is relatively cheap. A background check from somewhere like spokeo.com can be a heart or lifesaver.

First, I’d want to know his alleged “remote” address is what he has represented, and claims about his past ring true with his address history. And that these alleged sisters really are sisters rather than people he noticed are friends of your Facebook friends or whatever. That is discoverable with a very cheap person search on spokeo.com

A more extensive (including criminal background) check is not super expensive, and easy to do via spokeo.com. Well worth it IMHO.

Also, I would ask your friends to contact the alleged sisters to verify they are who he says they are, and he is who he is saying he is, and that he is someone worth knowing.

IMHO, he is already showing signs of consciously driven manipulation. Even ignoring the sex discussion.

I know you want this to pan out. I would too. But, safety first and foremost. Have him show you his drivers license or govt issued ID, before this goes further. Share it with a friend or family member. If you meet, meet in public, checking in with friend/family as you arrive, and make it clear that you were doing so and are expected to periodically through the day.

And IF you are resistant to a simple quick background check and assertively asking for proof of ID at this point, you should really ask yourself why.


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## Blondilocks

This guy has psycho written all over him. You can explain, justify, rationalize and romanticize 'til the cows come home and he will still be a 57 year old Norman Bates. You'd have to be nucking futs to meet him let alone go to his house.


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## Cooper

OP it's clear barring any major snafu you are plunging ahead and going to meet this guy, so please exercise the caution needed when meeting any stranger.....and he is a stranger.

Something else I want to point out is you need to consider the lack of conveinious of this relationship. With all the red flags is it truly worth your energy to try and build and maintain a relationship with a guy who doesn't live close to you? I don't care how much you face time, person to person time is the only way to build and maintain a relationship in my opinion, and that doesn't mean once a month meeting for sex. (Though that can be fun if it's the only expectation!)


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## m.t.t

PieceOfSky said:


> Verifying facts is relatively cheap. A background check from somewhere like spokeo.com can be a heart or lifesaver.
> 
> First, I’d want to know his alleged “remote” address is what he has represented, and claims about his past ring true with his address history. And that these alleged sisters really are sisters rather than people he noticed are friends of your Facebook friends or whatever. That is discoverable with a very cheap person search on spokeo.com
> 
> A more extensive (including criminal background) check is not super expensive, and easy to do via spokeo.com. Well worth it IMHO.
> 
> Also, I would ask your friends to contact the alleged sisters to verify they are who he says they are, and he is who he is saying he is, and that he is someone worth knowing.
> 
> IMHO, he is already showing signs of consciously driven manipulation. Even ignoring the sex discussion.
> 
> I know you want this to pan out. I would too. But, safety first and foremost. Have him show you his drivers license or govt issued ID, before this goes further. Share it with a friend or family member. If you meet, meet in public, checking in with friend/family as you arrive, and make it clear that you were doing so and are expected to periodically through the day.
> 
> And IF you are resistant to a simple quick background check and assertively asking for proof of ID at this point, you should really ask yourself why.


You can't do background checks in Australia, official ones anyway. I have seen his license and his license address. It may sound ridiculous but I don't feel worried about him being meet you on the spot pycho but I'm super aware and cautious of men who are abusers or mentally unstable.


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## m.t.t

Cooper said:


> OP it's clear barring any major snafu you are plunging ahead and going to meet this guy, so please exercise the caution needed when meeting any stranger.....and he is a stranger.
> 
> Something else I want to point out is you need to consider the lack of conveinious of this relationship. With all the red flags is it truly worth your energy to try and build and maintain a relationship with a guy who doesn't live close to you? I don't care how much you face time, person to person time is the only way to build and maintain a relationship in my opinion, and that doesn't mean once a month meeting for sex. (Though that can be fun if it's the only expectation!)


An hour away isn't a distance here in Australia, most people travel that to work daily and then drive back again. A two-hour daily commute is normal. No he doesnt live in my area but I drive 30 mins to do the shopping. This is just life here. Also if we did hit it off we would be doing weekends until we decided how to move forward thus the conversation about moving etc. All hypothetical but yes distance and expectations need to be discussed. 

The last person I dated on the 4th date I found out she never stays away from her home overnight and she would never consider moving away from where she lived. So I didn't see her again because there was no point. There was also the fact that I realized that I wasn't into her enough. She was also full-on with her initial liking of me. Not much different to this guy.


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## m.t.t

Blondilocks said:


> This guy has psycho written all over him. You can explain, justify, rationalize and romanticize 'til the cows come home and he will still be a 57 year old Norman Bates. You'd have to be nucking futs to meet him let alone go to his house.


I hope not, but thanks for making me rethink and consider.


----------



## m.t.t

Livvie said:


> Honestly, he doesn't seem very emotionally balanced. I think you are in for big troubles with this person.


This is what I'm worried about. From what I understand he seems to have instant long-lasting relationships with women that lack judgment. This flags to me that he lacks boundaries and judgment. I'm sitting on the fence today. I'm feeling way less excited about meeting him. Yes you guys have cast doubts and I have been listening.


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## m.t.t

We spoke via video chat last night. It was a bit different he seemed less energized, very relaxed. I'm wondering if the difference is I'm dealing with a person with anxiety issues. That's ok I have anxiety too. He seems to ruminate over things and retells me the same situation that is causing him to stress nearly every conversation. He will re-explain every time. I don't know if he realizes. But it's not attractive and gets a bit borning. He will say because of COVID I can't do * which means * and this is frustrating because I need to do * in order to do *

He seems very scared of COVID and it has personally affected him as in he can't work and his restrictions are harsher than mine. I'm fortunate that I'm still about to do my thing and I tend to take the don't stress over what he can't control just work out what you can and deal with things as they crop up. So last night's conversation was nice but he seemed quite different to other chats. He was less on so to speak. It did make me wonder if night time guy is very different to day time guy. Odd. But he is staying up late to talk to me. I don't video chat until my child is in bed. I don't know but I think I'm looking at him very closely now. I think I'm losing interest. I have realized his need for connection is much much greater than mine. I need space in a relationship and seems from listening to him being joined a the hip.


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## Openminded

What’s the hurry anyway — especially if he’s afraid of Covid and he’s never met you?


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## lucy999

I wonder if he's changing his demeanor due to your previous convo about his moving closer and sex?

I don't think it matters, though. 

I'd be lying if I said I'm disappointed you're losing interest.


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## AliceA

I've had an experience similar to that. The more they push, the more you pull away. I would think he has sensed you pulling away and might be analysing his own thoughts and feelings and where they are coming from. Is loneliness playing a part in his feelings/enthusiasm? It's good for him to consider things like that. You've tapped the brakes and now you are both going to have to take more time to assess the merits of a relationship with each other.

Repeatedly pressuring you regarding sexual contact is a problem imo. By the second time of having to explain it, I think I probably would've called it off if I were you, but I understand that you feel it might be worth seeing it through. He's now backing you into a corner though. You will probably feel like you have to stick to what you said because he's forced you to say it and explain yourself numerous times. He should've just accepted your position without making you feel like you had to list all your points out so he could pick each point apart with his counter-arguments (like a debate). Yes, it's nice to be asked your thoughts, it's not nice to feel like you're under a microscope. I wouldn't put up with it again if I were you. There is a point where you need to stand up for yourself and tell him he can take it or leave it but you're tired of discussing it.


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## m.t.t

AliceA said:


> I've had an experience similar to that. The more they push, the more you pull away. I would think he has sensed you pulling away and might be analysing his own thoughts and feelings and where they are coming from. Is loneliness playing a part in his feelings/enthusiasm? It's good for him to consider things like that. You've tapped the brakes and now you are both going to have to take more time to assess the merits of a relationship with each other.
> 
> Repeatedly pressuring you regarding sexual contact is a problem imo. By the second time of having to explain it, I think I probably would've called it off if I were you, but I understand that you feel it might be worth seeing it through. He's now backing you into a corner though. You will probably feel like you have to stick to what you said because he's forced you to say it and explain yourself numerous times. He should've just accepted your position without making you feel like you had to list all your points out so he could pick each point apart with his counter-arguments (like a debate). Yes, it's nice to be asked your thoughts, it's not nice to feel like you're under a microscope. I wouldn't put up with it again if I were you. There is a point where you need to stand up for yourself and tell him he can take it or leave it but you're tired of discussing it.


He didn’t actually counter argue it, I guess he wanted to understand it and be clear on what I meant. It wasn’t just sex but he took it to mean no contact . I will see, and no I won’t stand for testing boundaries. I’m not afraid to say goodbye.

He has said he the other night that realized that taking about my sexual boundaries made me feel uncomfortable. He said that he doesn’t want to muck things up between us.
I can tell He is nervous about meeting tomorrow. I could have put it off but I feel good about it today. i guess there is no rush but I don’t want this to keep going on without meeting up. I don’t want a screen romance and neither does he do the only way to tell how this really feels is to meet him in person.


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## Livvie

m.t.t said:


> He didn’t actually counter argue it, I guess he wanted to understand it and be clear on what I meant. It wasn’t just sex but he took it to mean no contact . I will see, and no I won’t stand for testing boundaries. I’m not afraid to say goodbye.
> 
> He has said he the other night that realized that taking about my sexual boundaries made me feel uncomfortable. He said that he doesn’t want to muck things up between us.
> I can tell He is nervous about meeting tomorrow. I could have put it off but I feel good about it today. i guess there is no rush but I don’t want this to keep going on without meeting up. I don’t want a screen romance and neither does he do the only way to tell how this really feels is to meet him in person.


Well... He said: he realizes talking about your sexual boundaries made you uncomfortable? That's him spinning words and impressions in a manipulative way. He should have said: me bringing up sex with someone I haven't even met in person was out of line and I'm sorry I did that and made you uncomfortable. HIS behavior was something that was discomfort making, that was the problem, not something in yourself (talking about your own sexual boundaries), see the difference?


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## Blondilocks

Well, if you're looking for a project - he's your guy.


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## m.t.t

Livvie said:


> Well... He said: he realizes talking about your sexual boundaries made you uncomfortable? That's him spinning words and impressions in a manipulative way. He should have said: me bringing up sex with someone I haven't even met in person was out of line and I'm sorry I did that and made you uncomfortable. HIS behavior was something that was discomfort making, that was the problem, not something in yourself (talking about your own sexual boundaries), see the difference?


I do but I'm not really sure the way it was worded. I just took from it what I needed to and the fact that sex was not mentioned or implied again at all.I have talked to pushy sex guys and this doesn't feel like that. I have had some great advice. I am going to meet with him in a few hours, go for a walk first and if I feel comfortable I will go and have lunch and we have decided to draw together. If I'm made to feel uncomfortable I will leave. If he is disappointed in that kind of day, he has planned it, then he isn't the guy for me. I feel comfortable meeting him now. But I won't be hanging around if he is cookoo or pushy. I have been through to much to allow that back into my life.


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## AliceA

m.t.t said:


> He didn’t actually counter argue it, I guess he wanted to understand it and be clear on what I meant. It wasn’t just sex but he took it to mean no contact . I will see, and no I won’t stand for testing boundaries. I’m not afraid to say goodbye.
> 
> He has said he the other night that realized that taking about my sexual boundaries made me feel uncomfortable. He said that he doesn’t want to muck things up between us.
> I can tell He is nervous about meeting tomorrow. I could have put it off but I feel good about it today. i guess there is no rush but I don’t want this to keep going on without meeting up. I don’t want a screen romance and neither does he do the only way to tell how this really feels is to meet him in person.


That's fair enough. It's a good sign that he wasn't trying to shoot down your reasons. After years of living with someone who's only interest in me was what I could do for him, I encountered someone who actually wanted to know what I was thinking. I'm still getting used to it. Sometimes it feels like he's trying to drill into my head. Interesting feeling, mostly nice, but sometimes exhausting.


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## lucy999

How was your date?


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## heartsbeating

I hope it all went well... or at the very least, you got clarity on any doubts you had.
Please check in when you can


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## frusdil

I'm in Australia too, and the only place over here with harsh lockdowns is Victoria. So I'm assuming you're not there, and if you are, neither of you have any business travelling to each other right now.

Other states have some restrictions yes, but only Victoria is in harsh lockdown, so there's plenty of public places that you two can meet.

I really hope that you didn't go to his place, for so many reasons but the main one being your safety.


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## m.t.t

frusdil said:


> I'm in Australia too, and the only place over here with harsh lockdowns is Victoria. So I'm assuming you're not there, and if you are, neither of you have any business travelling to each other right now.
> 
> Other states have some restrictions yes, but only Victoria is in harsh lockdown, so there's plenty of public places that you two can meet.
> 
> I really hope that you didn't go to his place, for so many reasons but the main one being your safety.


 Melbourne is in stage 4 outside of that is a 3


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## m.t.t

Thank you for your support and asking how it went 

The meeting went a bit like this. I told him the night before that I wouldn't meet him at his home but want to meet him and go for a walk first. I felt confident that I would get a good sense of if I felt comfortable. I also reached out to an aquantience and vetted him the best I could. But I was really going on what I felt. It was also a test to see if he would push boundaries with the meeting and going for a walk. He didn't and we met. It was raining like crazy but he met me out with an umbrella and we walked. I instantly felt comfortable so we went back to his place. I really don't think this is a great idea usually but I chose to.

We talked, played a board game, we made tea, he cooked lunch and we ended up drawing side by side and talking. No alcohol, no suggestive talk, we had chemistry, I could feel it and I was very drawn to him. It just felt natural and I really liked being there. I would never recommend going to a guy's house on a first meeting but I trusted my gut when I met him and I'm glad I did. He kept his hands to himself. It was obvious he was nervous and liked me but I felt safe and respected. So far so good. This is probably the most drawn to a person that I have felt for a very long time.

So then today I went back and spent a few more hours getting to know him face to face. He made lunch we sat and drew and listening to music and talked. I've never really had this ease with someone before. I'm still cautious though, he still tells me he really likes me, he brought me a pot plant and he opens doors and makes me tea.


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## lucy999

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. Slow and steady wins the race.


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## m.t.t

lucy999 said:


> I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. Slow and steady wins the race.


I agree, thank you


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## heartsbeating

I'm glad it went well


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## StarFires

There are trolls who come to boards like this just so they have a bunch of people to argue with. They sign up and post provocative subject matter in order to draw people in with posts of their opinions and links to factual data and all that jazz, but the OP disputes everyone and everything everyone says.

I'm not calling you a troll. I know you were sincere in your initial intent of posting for "honest in the know advice," but I'm pointing out that you ended up doing the same thing. Every single respondent told you what they thought, pointed out the various red flags, and shared their discomfort in answering your title that it isn't normal. But you didn't like any of it, so you repudiated everything they said and did what they suggested you shouldn't do.

I think you posted because you just wanted to share your excitement and expected others to join in and be excited for you. When that didn't happen, your purpose transformed into defending your opinions and impressions of him. You immediately forgot that you came here because you were skeptical to begin with and felt some undue pressure and discomfort quite early on.

There were a couple dates, and I'm glad they turned out nicely for you. I think those made you feel like you (and he) have proven everyone wrong, but I'm not so sure because it's still way too early to know that for certain. I wager that what everyone told you still stands because, as my mother was the first to tell me, "Leopards don't change their spots." And, as Maya Angelou taught us years ago, "When a person shows you who they are, believe them." 

I know you heard those before and hope you're not ignoring those wise pearls passed down through the ages by being vigilant and prudent and exercising good judgment. He was able to pull you in very quickly with the various number of times he expressed his interest in you and however number of ways he expressed it. While others pointed out that personality trait with concern, I want to point out that it's a personality type - a type that I usually warn women against because it's well known in the relationship community of professionals to be a very effective and very often employed tactic used to.....pull a woman in. Once he gets her in, he changes personalities.

That, along with talking about moving closer to you and several other tactics he used - they all got you. I'm not going to read through this thread again in order to enumberate each one, but suffice it to say his methods were common and pedictable and he knew what he was doing.

There are very few and very particular circumstances under which I suggest a person leave their marriage/relationship or suggest a person run away from a developing one because it isn't my intention to break up relationships and tell people to divorce over every kind of problem. But no sense in me going there since you don't want that kind of advice, so I'm only going again ask that you be vigilant and prudent and exercise good judgment. Guard your heart and scrutinize him for a long time and at the first new signs of anything questionable, please run for the hills. 

It's human nature not to listen to people and ignore the early warning signs. There's an inner need and sense of urgency to experience adversity for ourselves, especially once feelings have already begun brewing. I'm just hoping you won't remain in the relationship if or when you begin to see his true colors for yourself. Most of all, I'm hoping you are right and we all are wrong, and the relationship flourishes problem-free. But if it doesn't, get out even faster than you got pulled in.

*Romeo Is Bleeding: When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong*
This will help you to know what to look out for.


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## heartsbeating

I agree with the sentiment of still being cautious. Despite being glad the meetings went well. Those doubts and such were there for a reason.


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## heartsbeating

And while this is on my mind, scenarios with friends came to mind where they ignored the red-flags. One dated a guy, had him over and during sex he became physically abusive. She called the police, had bruises on her arms, emotionally shaken by the ordeal, and went to court. Afterwards, said she ignored the warning signs which she could see in hindsight. Another ignored (and admitted to me later that she was annoyed with me when I suggested she step away - I didn’t know the extent of things at that time) the flags until he had his hands around her neck. Then she left and had restraining order on him. Unfortunately, these scenarios happen.

I do hope this isn’t the case for the OP.


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## 3Xnocharm

Reading that link makes me never want to date ever again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StarFires

3Xnocharm said:


> Reading that link makes me never want to date ever again.


LOL It's no joke, is it?

This is the thing though, everybody has known someone who tried to tell of their experience with the types of personality-disordered people that this essay describes. Unfortunately, every one of them falls short in their descriptions because they're not able to articulate what they went through lto the degree of this counselor's scathing accuracy. But we've all heard these stories before on this forum and/or from people in real life. A lot of things get blown off as less significant than they actually are because the listener or reader isn't able to fully absorb the magnitude of the person's experience since the person wasn't able to eloquently tell the stories. Not to mention a lot of women are too embarrassed of what happened to them, so they truncate the details of the episodes out of fear of exposing themselves to scrutiny.

It's a very educational essay that isn't meant to instill fear of the dangerous personalites out there but is meant to be studied so people can reconize the dangerous personalities out there and then steer clear before becoming too involved and falling victim. There are several personality types it describes, and so many people looking to become somebody's romantic partner fit those descriptions to a tee. It's easy to get swept up and pulled in when you don't know what to look out for.

I love that people can learn about this part because I think it's probably the most common - a portion of his description of a Borderline.....

If someone with a Borderline Personality Disorder attempts to draw you into a relationship, there is a very simple, concrete way to know it. *Pay attention to your stomach.* Even though he may initially seem sweet, attentive and empathic, *you will likely perceive a subtle tightening in the pit of your abdomen*, like a small rock you've suddenly noticed in your shoe-barely noticeable, but there.

Listen to that rock, because *it is the voice of instinct*, and it's trying to tell you something. *Listen to your fear* and start scanning for an incoming missile. The Borderline is often a tough target to initially confirm, but close attention to his attitudes and behaviors and an emotional position of calm neutrality can help you confirm his threat-potential. And if Borderline is confirmed, get out of there before it's too late.

But if too late has happened, and you are already involved with a Borderline Controller, you have experienced far more than the pinch of a small stone in your gut. You've been engulfed in an insane, hyper-emotional ride where spewing sheets of scalding lava alternate with warm, soothing baths of emotional saccharine. Life itself will have become a series of whipsawing emotional extremes, between his clinging adoration and hateful spite. The hallmark of this pattern is that "just when things seem to be going well," and he is treating you best, he suddenly turns into a perverse version of Air Jordan and you're the ball. Slam-dunked would be a mild way of describing the receiving end of this intensely emotional pounding. 

He was just treating you like a goddess. He was being so sweet and attentive. Maybe he was even telling you how wonderful you are. Then, in the sudden twinkling of a diabolical eye, he's treating you like you've become a "*****-on-wheels." And you don't know why.

He accuses you of everything from insincerity to infidelity, and *your mind scrambles to discover what you just said or did that's setting him off. He keeps saying it's you, and is so intensely convinced it is you that it's hard not to believe him*. Later, after his firestorm of vindictiveness has died down, you might realize what triggered him. You did not respond "right" to his compliments, or scratched your nose in the midst of his adoration, or maybe you just burnt the toast that morning or were two-minutes late coming home from the office. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. There will always be something - apparently innocuous to you - which will abruptly stoke his raging fire again. And again and again, round and around, until your spirit and soul are finally ground into fine, despondent grains of charred debris, and your mind eventually looks like a Tokyo china-shop after a 9.0 earthquake.

Maybe he never physically beats you. Or maybe he does. Or maybe he never will. But you never know. He is stunningly impulsive and unpredictable. But he always assaults you emotionally, ripping into every fiber of your being with verbal vindictive, threats and accusations. Being keel-hauled over a coral reef is a cake-walk, compared to a Borderline's torment.

The only thing predictable about such a Controller is his extreme unpredictability. It is only after you become intimately snared into him that you discover the soul-grinder that lies waiting to strike. Until then, you may even find him amazingly attentive, sensitive and empathic to your every need.* He can initially appear to be completely non-threatening. That is why it is critical to learn how to identify this type of individual, because there is a high probability that brutally sociopathic or sadistic-type personality disorders may hide behind his appealing camouflage of muted sensitivity.*


----------



## m.t.t

StarFires said:


> There are trolls who come to boards like this just so they have a bunch of people to argue with. They sign up and post provocative subject matter in order to draw people in with posts of their opinions and links to factual data and all that jazz, but the OP disputes everyone and everything everyone says.
> 
> I'm not calling you a troll. I know you were sincere in your initial intent of posting for "honest in the know advice," but I'm pointing out that you ended up doing the same thing. Every single respondent told you what they thought, pointed out the various red flags, and shared their discomfort in answering your title that it isn't normal. But you didn't like any of it, so you repudiated everything they said and did what they suggested you shouldn't do.
> 
> I think you posted because you just wanted to share your excitement and expected others to join in and be excited for you. When that didn't happen, your purpose transformed into defending your opinions and impressions of him. You immediately forgot that you came here because you were skeptical to begin with and felt some undue pressure and discomfort quite early on.
> 
> There were a couple dates, and I'm glad they turned out nicely for you. I think those made you feel like you (and he) have proven everyone wrong, but I'm not so sure because it's still way too early to know that for certain. I wager that what everyone told you still stands because, as my mother was the first to tell me, "Leopards don't change their spots." And, as Maya Angelou taught us years ago, "When a person shows you who they are, believe them."
> 
> I know you heard those before and hope you're not ignoring those wise pearls passed down through the ages by being vigilant and prudent and exercising good judgment. He was able to pull you in very quickly with the various number of times he expressed his interest in you and however number of ways he expressed it. While others pointed out that personality trait with concern, I want to point out that it's a personality type - a type that I usually warn women against because it's well known in the relationship community of professionals to be a very effective and very often employed tactic used to.....pull a woman in. Once he gets her in, he changes personalities.
> 
> That, along with talking about moving closer to you and several other tactics he used - they all got you. I'm not going to read through this thread again in order to enumberate each one, but suffice it to say his methods were common and pedictable and he knew what he was doing.
> 
> There are very few and very particular circumstances under which I suggest a person leave their marriage/relationship or suggest a person run away from a developing one because it isn't my intention to break up relationships and tell people to divorce over every kind of problem. But no sense in me going there since you don't want that kind of advice, so I'm only going again ask that you be vigilant and prudent and exercise good judgment. Guard your heart and scrutinize him for a long time and at the first new signs of anything questionable, please run for the hills.
> 
> It's human nature not to listen to people and ignore the early warning signs. There's an inner need and sense of urgency to experience adversity for ourselves, especially once feelings have already begun brewing. I'm just hoping you won't remain in the relationship if or when you begin to see his true colors for yourself. Most of all, I'm hoping you are right and we all are wrong, and the relationship flourishes problem-free. But if it doesn't, get out even faster than you got pulled in.
> 
> *Romeo Is Bleeding: When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong*
> This will help you to know what to look out for.


I have to disagree with you.

I asked for help in what my concerns were not for someone to tell me what to do. I believe I listened to all that everyone had to say and I had further doubts but I wanted to see for myself. I have continued to see him, I saw him again last weekend just gone and I still don't have any bad feelings when I am with him, in person. I know what that pit in the stomach feels like and I feel good in his company. Not by what he says but from how it feels to stand next to him and hold his hand.

We have daily contact, I have my boundaries still and I'm still vetting him. I have worked long and hard and I'm not going to enter into something lightly. I wanted your help in nutting things out not just doing as you tell me to do.

My parents married after knowing one another for 6 weeks, they had 20 years together. So some people just know, so maybe he is just super keen on me, who knows but I'm not going to run for the hills before thinking things over and seeing myself. Dating in Australia is a bit different to the American 'dating' thing. I'm vetting learning about him, and I'm still enjoying our drawing dates over skype. 

I would still like you guys to be here for me, I don't think I'm at all like a Troll. I'm a bit shocked at the comparison TBH.


----------



## StarFires

m.t.t said:


> I have to disagree with you.
> 
> I asked for help in what my concerns were not for someone to tell me what to do. I believe I listened to all that everyone had to say and I had further doubts but I wanted to see for myself. I have continued to see him, I saw him again last weekend just gone and I still don't have any bad feelings when I am with him, in person. I know what that pit in the stomach feels like and I feel good in his company. Not by what he says but from how it feels to stand next to him and hold his hand.
> 
> We have daily contact, I have my boundaries still and I'm still vetting him. I have worked long and hard and I'm not going to enter into something lightly. I wanted your help in nutting things out not just doing as you tell me to do.
> 
> My parents married after knowing one another for 6 weeks, they had 20 years together. So some people just know, so maybe he is just super keen on me, who knows but I'm not going to run for the hills before thinking things over and seeing myself. Dating in Australia is a bit different to the American 'dating' thing. I'm vetting learning about him, and I'm still enjoying our drawing dates over skype.
> 
> I would still like you guys to be here for me, I don't think I'm at all like a Troll. I'm a bit shocked at the comparison TBH.


It seems like a comparison would have some pretty bad connotations, but that wasn't the tenor of what I was saying. I didn't mean any offense to say they do x and you did x also and then disclaimed any such suspicion of you. I'm glad you're still feeling him out and getting to know him. Best of all, you feel good in his company, so I'm as hopeful as you are for your sake.


----------



## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> I would still like you guys to be here for me...


From what I’ve observed with threads like yours are that the TAM community overall, will continue to offer support one way or another.

The responses and suggestions you received were based on what you wrote, observed, and were feeling within yourself. Perhaps it helped you write out the hesitations you experienced. Perhaps combined with the responses, it helped to give you pause. At the end of the day, you’re grown-folk and will navigate this the best you know how.

I think if things continue in a positive way for you both, and you shared that here, you’ll likely receive cheerleaders in your corner (and perhaps with relief).

if things take a different turn, I think you’ll still receive cheerleaders here who are keen to support you through it. It’s all just part of life’s learning.

We (those who posted replies) don’t know you - just as you don’t know us (and really we’re all ‘us’). But those who expressed concern for your safety after more of your posts, no doubt would also express compassion and/or joy for you, too. Which ever route this takes, you’re not alone.


----------



## bobert

m.t.t said:


> I would still like you guys to be here for me, I don't think I'm at all like a Troll. I'm a bit shocked at the comparison TBH.


I was shocked by that comparison as well. Some members here get their panties in a knot if anyone disagrees with them or if the OP doesn't do exactly as they say, when they say it. Ignore them. If they become a problem, block them.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

I'm sure there's still a lot you don't know about him like whether or not he has any alcohol or substance problems. if I were you I would invest a little money on the internet and run a quick background check on him just to make sure there's not a criminal background to give yourself peace of mind. 

He sounds very talkative, and that's fine unless all he does is talk and doesn't let you get in a word edgewise or something like that we're all he wants to talk about is himself and doesn't really talk much about you or what you like or want to talk about. 

He sounds nice but do whatever you have to do to check background and just be sure as you can. Remember that people can easily hide alcoholism or addictions especially online. make sure he's not so talkative because he's a meth head or something!

and don't let him get in such a hurry that he wants to be on a pace that makes you feel uncomfortable. Don't let him crowd you into too much too soon. But do try to relax and enjoy!


----------



## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> From what I’ve observed with threads like yours are that the TAM community overall, will continue to offer support one way or another.
> 
> The responses and suggestions you received were based on what you wrote, observed, and were feeling within yourself. Perhaps it helped you write out the hesitations you experienced. Perhaps combined with the responses, it helped to give you pause. At the end of the day, you’re grown-folk and will navigate this the best you know how.
> 
> I think if things continue in a positive way for you both, and you shared that here, you’ll likely receive cheerleaders in your corner (and perhaps with relief).
> 
> if things take a different turn, I think you’ll still receive cheerleaders here who are keen to support you through it. It’s all just part of life’s learning.
> 
> We (those who posted replies) don’t know you - just as you don’t know us (and really we’re all ‘us’). But those who expressed concern for your safety after more of your posts, no doubt would also express compassion and/or joy for you, too. Which ever route this takes, you’re not alone.


Thank you x I really love this space...


----------



## m.t.t

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm sure there's still a lot you don't know about him like whether or not he has any alcohol or substance problems. if I were you I would invest a little money on the internet and run a quick background check on him just to make sure there's not a criminal background to give yourself peace of mind.
> 
> He sounds very talkative, and that's fine unless all he does is talk and doesn't let you get in a word edgewise or something like that we're all he wants to talk about is himself and doesn't really talk much about you or what you like or want to talk about.
> 
> He sounds nice but do whatever you have to do to check background and just be sure as you can. Remember that people can easily hide alcoholism or addictions especially online. make sure he's not so talkative because he's a meth head or something!
> 
> and don't let him get in such a hurry that he wants to be on a pace that makes you feel uncomfortable. Don't let him crowd you into too much too soon. But do try to relax and enjoy!


You can't do background checks in Australia. But I have vetted him in other ways. So I do check where I can here and there but I just feel like he is solid, I get a calm sense of trust with this guy. It's not like me but I am settling into it a bit more.

We talk a lot but he also listens and hears me. Yes, he could be those things and if I come across an issue I'm strong enough to walk. I saw him again last weekend. We spent the weekend together. Well, both days not overnight. The time we share together feels really easy. I'm usually trying to get away from people after a while; I'm a true introvert but I want more time with him no less. I'm slowing it down a bit and Covid is too. But I'm very happy.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Can't believe you're not allowed to do background checks there, especially in the age of internet dating. Glad you're feeling good about it though.


----------



## m.t.t

Everything with this guy is going really well. I spent last weekend with him and it was great. He came and over to my place on the Sunday and it was a really happy day. It's so easy between us, I'm really feeling close to this man and I like it.

But there is one thing that has been bothering me a bit and I'm not sure what's going on. We have always skyped of an evening and sometimes it great and sometimes it ends up in misunderstandings and we have discussed why this might be. The misunderstandings are not fights or disagreements but just a strange vibe. It's always ok in the morning. We always talk about it. I always have to be the one to say good night but he will just keep the conversation going. Even when I wind it up he prolongs it somehow. It's like he doesn't want me to go. 

He has to told me that he finds it hard at night time as he would prefer to be with me than seeing me on a screen, he finds it frustrating. When I say we had better sleep he kinds of gets a bit of a sulky vibe, I hate this! I have noticed that when we talk during the day either on skype or phone or in person he is totally fine. Happy and engaged a very different vibe etc. But night time he is different. He is still all of those things but he gets a bit sensitive and sulky. He almost does this thing where you know how some people will say something negative in order to get a positive response. This is usually around our relationship. An example would be him saying maybe he is too sensitive for someone like me. That maybe I would prefer someone different. I say no not at all, I love the way you are, etc and then he goes I don't know you just seem so together maybe I'm not as together as you are. It's all self-doubt talk out loud. He seems sulky and depressed at night or something. It's almost like talking to a different person.

This is the only thing that I'm not liking. I can't get my head around why he is so different on skype at night. Out chats are long so maybe he is tired but he wants to do them. I asked him why he is so different and he said he doesn't really know why. It's the constant needing to reassure him and the depressing night time vibe I just don't get. In the morning I will get a text all happy and then a call all happy to a skype call. His needy and depressed feel of an evening is confusing and it's making me rethink things a bit. What do you guys think this maybe? I'm wondering if it's a simple as saying let's give our night time skype a miss? I just don't get why he is so different of an evening.


----------



## Livvie

Well, that is strange. It would be a red flag for me. It's not exactly the sign of someone who is an "average" kind of emotionally healthy, especially for his age. I'd be wary. I'd think that if this progresses, if you get to the place you are spending a lot of time together in person, that eventually this trait will come out again, and maybe even in a bigger and more impactful way. The problem is that by that time your would be very enmeshed in a relationship and it would be harder for you to let it go.


----------



## bobert

If he has mental health issues they can be worse at night. Things like being tired or medications wearing off can cause worsening symptoms at night. He could also be lonely at night when he has no distractions or things to do, but he needs to learn to self soothe.


----------



## m.t.t

I have wondered about his mental health. I don’t want to be too judgmental as I have my own issues but I’m wondering if there is something. 

He sent me a text after we finished our chat tonight where I ended up asking him about the difference. He said he didn’t know why but agreed there was a difference, The text said 
I love you ♥ 
Which is not really somthing I want to hear for the first time in a text, he has indicated that he has never felt this way about someone before and it shows. I’m not sure about the text, I feel that he means it deeply and that worries me.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Wow, way too much too fast. He sounds needy and codependent. You two spend entirely too much time Skyping, you both need to get back to having lives. I don’t mean to cut it out altogether, but it needs to be a reasonable amount. It sounds like you should skip those nighttime Skype sessions altogether. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cooper

My take is he wants you to act all sad and depressed at having to say goodnight. It's as if he's trying to measure your feelings and get you to mimic his actions. Could be insecurity or emotional manipulation.


----------



## Blondilocks

The guy could have 'Jack the Ripper' tattooed on his forehead and you would still ignore it because he's a nice guy during the daytime.

Two words - Control Freak.


----------



## Openminded

Way. Too. Fast.


----------



## lucy999

@bobert took the words right out of my mouth. I think he is lonely and it manifests at night.

The I love you text is entirely inappropriate.
Way too fast. Way too soon. Everything is. And like @3Xnocharm said, you need to pull back and resume living your life. I know you are, but I vote for no more of these marathon Skype sessions.
He keeps showing you true glimpses of who he is and then either he or you explain them away and forge ahead.

Please tell me you haven't had the exclusivity talk. I think you should tell him you have a date with someone and see how he reacts. I have a feeling it won't be good. Yeah yeah it's a **** test but I think it's warranted here.


----------



## AliceA

m.t.t said:


> Everything with this guy is going really well. I spent last weekend with him and it was great. He came and over to my place on the Sunday and it was a really happy day. It's so easy between us, I'm really feeling close to this man and I like it.
> 
> But there is one thing that has been bothering me a bit and I'm not sure what's going on. We have always skyped of an evening and sometimes it great and sometimes it ends up in misunderstandings and we have discussed why this might be. The misunderstandings are not fights or disagreements but just a strange vibe. It's always ok in the morning. We always talk about it. I always have to be the one to say good night but he will just keep the conversation going. Even when I wind it up he prolongs it somehow. It's like he doesn't want me to go.
> 
> He has to told me that he finds it hard at night time as he would prefer to be with me than seeing me on a screen, he finds it frustrating. When I say we had better sleep he kinds of gets a bit of a sulky vibe, I hate this! I have noticed that when we talk during the day either on skype or phone or in person he is totally fine. Happy and engaged a very different vibe etc. But night time he is different. He is still all of those things but he gets a bit sensitive and sulky. He almost does this thing where you know how some people will say something negative in order to get a positive response. This is usually around our relationship. An example would be him saying maybe he is too sensitive for someone like me. That maybe I would prefer someone different. I say no not at all, I love the way you are, etc and then he goes I don't know you just seem so together maybe I'm not as together as you are. It's all self-doubt talk out loud. He seems sulky and depressed at night or something. It's almost like talking to a different person.
> 
> This is the only thing that I'm not liking. I can't get my head around why he is so different on skype at night. Out chats are long so maybe he is tired but he wants to do them. I asked him why he is so different and he said he doesn't really know why. It's the constant needing to reassure him and the depressing night time vibe I just don't get. In the morning I will get a text all happy and then a call all happy to a skype call. His needy and depressed feel of an evening is confusing and it's making me rethink things a bit. What do you guys think this maybe? I'm wondering if it's a simple as saying let's give our night time skype a miss? I just don't get why he is so different of an evening.


I’m not sure what his issue is, but communication is always, always, the way to resolve it if it can be resolved.

Talk about it during your next get together. Tell him how it comes across to you. If he does it again, point out, “you’re doing that sulky thing again”, or however you would word it.

Just last night I told my partner (on phone) to please not say “that”, it was nothing bad, I just tell him now, no anger, no irritation, just letting him know. A sign for me that a person is a keeper is if they can hear what you say and take it onboard without unnecessary drama.


----------



## AliceA

m.t.t said:


> I have wondered about his mental health. I don’t want to be too judgmental as I have my own issues but I’m wondering if there is something.
> 
> He sent me a text after we finished our chat tonight where I ended up asking him about the difference. He said he didn’t know why but agreed there was a difference, The text said
> I love you ♥
> Which is not really somthing I want to hear for the first time in a text, he has indicated that he has never felt this way about someone before and it shows. I’m not sure about the text, I feel that he means it deeply and that worries me.


Personally, the timing wouldn’t overly worry me. Texting it isn’t ideal, but not a big deal either. Just because he admits to falling hard and fast doesn’t mean he’s bad for you. If you don’t feel it, fair enough, but sometimes our nerves at the start are coming from the fear of being hurt.

If he feels you are “out of his league”, he’s going to be more excited about this than he probably would be otherwise.


----------



## m.t.t

bobert said:


> If he has mental health issues they can be worse at night. Things like being tired or medications wearing off can cause worsening symptoms at night. He could also be lonely at night when he has no distractions or things to do, but he needs to learn to self soothe.


I'm getting the feeling that he feels insecure and lonely at night.




3Xnocharm said:


> Wow, way too much too fast. He sounds needy and codependent. You two spend entirely too much time Skyping, you both need to get back to having lives. I don’t mean to cut it out altogether, but it needs to be a reasonable amount. It sounds like you should skip those nighttime Skype sessions altogether.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've had issues with co-dependence myself, I have wondered if he has a similar issue.



Cooper said:


> My take is he wants you to act all sad and depressed at having to say goodnight. It's as if he's trying to measure your feelings and get you to mimic his actions. Could be insecurity or emotional manipulation.


The thing is I would prefer a happy goodnight. I don't get how anyone would want a sad parting. TBH I find it a bit unattractive. I'm very independent so I'm not going to be all mopy about parting for the evening. I love taking to him but I also happy to say good night when I feel it's time.



lucy999 said:


> @bobert took the words right out of my mouth. I think he is lonely and it manifests at night.
> 
> The I love you text is entirely inappropriate.
> Way too fast. Way too soon. Everything is. And like @3Xnocharm said, you need to pull back and resume living your life. I know you are, but I vote for no more of these marathon Skype sessions.
> He keeps showing you true glimpses of who he is and then either he or you explain them away and forge ahead.
> 
> Please tell me you haven't had the exclusivity talk. I think you should tell him you have a date with someone and see how he reacts. I have a feeling it won't be good. Yeah yeah it's a **** test but I think it's warranted here.


I don't want to play games to see what he will say. We have had the talk and I'm happy to be exclusively seeing him. Dating in Australia is a bit difrent we don't usually date multiple people here. Online dating has introduced a more American style of dating but we usually date one at a time.



AliceA said:


> I’m not sure what his issue is, but communication is always, always, the way to resolve it if it can be resolved.
> 
> Talk about it during your next get together. Tell him how it comes across to you. If he does it again, point out, “you’re doing that sulky thing again”, or however you would word it.
> 
> Just last night I told my partner (on phone) to please not say “that”, it was nothing bad, I just tell him now, no anger, no irritation, just letting him know. A sign for me that a person is a keeper is if they can hear what you say and take it onboard without unnecessary drama.


We communicate really well... I spoke to him about it this morning. He told me he does get sulky and he hates it about himself but is working on it. 



AliceA said:


> Personally, the timing wouldn’t overly worry me. Texting it isn’t ideal, but not a big deal either. Just because he admits to falling hard and fast doesn’t mean he’s bad for you. If you don’t feel it, fair enough, but sometimes our nerves at the start are coming from the fear of being hurt.
> 
> If he feels you are “out of his league”, he’s going to be more excited about this than he probably would be otherwise.


I think he does feel like I am out of his legue. I get that sense from him. He has told me that he worries that he will stuff it all up


----------



## AliceA

m.t.t said:


> I don't want to play games to see what he will say. We have had the talk and I'm happy to be exclusively seeing him. Dating in Australia is a bit difrent we don't usually date multiple people here. Online dating has introduced a more American style of dating but we usually date one at a time.


Yeah, I'm Australian and if I want to pursue something after the first coffee meeting, I'm not meeting anyone else until I figure out where that's going. I hadn't really thought of it as a cultural thing until you said that.



m.t.t said:


> We communicate really well... I spoke to him about it this morning. He told me he does get sulky and he hates it about himself but is working on it.
> 
> I think he does feel like I am out of his league. I get that sense from him. He has told me that he worries that he will stuff it all up


It's good that he's taken that on board. It can take a little time and some reminders, but I think there's always going to be some issues to work on. Perfect relationships are a myth imo. I had a small issue with my partner giving me "advice". He's working on it. 

I get why this guy is so invested so fast if he's feeling like you're out of his league. He doesn't want this opportunity to slip through his fingers. People think saying "I love you" is a massive thing. It's just a description of a feeling, and it may not be the same as the love someone feels after 1, 10, or 50 years together, but it's just a way to express ourselves. He's not saying, "I know everything about you" or "marry me", he's just telling you that he really wants this to work because thinking of you makes him all tingly and happy (and probably scared). Not all love is the same, and I wish there were many more words for the various levels/stages whatever of love, but "I like you" is bleh, "I desire you" is also bleh, so we use the words we have available.


----------



## m.t.t

AliceA said:


> Yeah, I'm Australian and if I want to pursue something after the first coffee meeting, I'm not meeting anyone else until I figure out where that's going. I hadn't really thought of it as a cultural thing until you said that.
> 
> 
> 
> It's good that he's taken that on board. It can take a little time and some reminders, but I think there's always going to be some issues to work on. Perfect relationships are a myth imo. I had a small issue with my partner giving me "advice". He's working on it.
> 
> I get why this guy is so invested so fast if he's feeling like you're out of his league. He doesn't want this opportunity to slip through his fingers. People think saying "I love you" is a massive thing. It's just a description of a feeling, and it may not be the same as the love someone feels after 1, 10, or 50 years together, but it's just a way to express ourselves. He's not saying, "I know everything about you" or "marry me", he's just telling you that he really wants this to work because thinking of you makes him all tingly and happy (and probably scared). Not all love is the same, and I wish there were many more words for the various levels/stages whatever of love, but "I like you" is bleh, "I desire you" is also bleh, so we use the words we have available.


oh I didn’t realise you were Australian as well  

Thank you for your thoughts, they have given me a different perspective on things.


----------



## turnera

If you are dropping everything else in your life to be with a person, it's too much and unhealthy. Make sure you're still hanging out with girlfriends, doing things on your own, having hobbies and other outlets. That way, you'll be able to see HIS actions from a healthy perspective and you'll sense if it's off.


----------



## m.t.t

turnera said:


> If you are dropping everything else in your life to be with a person, it's too much and unhealthy. Make sure you're still hanging out with girlfriends, doing things on your own, having hobbies and other outlets. That way, you'll be able to see HIS actions from a healthy perspective and you'll sense if it's off.


I totally agree with that. Years ago I would have done that but now I just couldn't be in a relationship like that. It's a bit harder with COVID but I do have a full life off with all of those things but I have had to make room for a relationship. If I didn't that wouldn't be fair. We do communicate a lot but I have no issue not picking up the phone if I'm busy and he gets that. 

He does seem to have more of a need for spending time together than I do, but we talk about things and negotiate that. He is further ahead with this than I am, but he knows this and I keep things slower. He seems to be more a heart on the sleeve type and I'm not. I'm super independent and he is very much a couple person. This could cause a few issues but we both are willing to balance this and hopefully it works.


----------



## m.t.t

Ok, I'm back again.... Somethings is bothering me. It feel like keeps pushing for more of me.

He came over for lunch today, so a mid-week visit. We have been spending the whole weekend together. So this has now taken it to all day sat and Sunday and now one day during the week but no sleepover only on a Saturday night. This for me feels like enough for now. We live an hour apart and I do my share of the traveling. I thought we were all good. We had a great day. He rang me when he was nearly home and we talked about a few things. But again the conversation got deep. I'm not sure why this happens, but I think he takes it there and I follow. After we talked he sent a message, it was an odd text so I rang him back. He said he was feeling really flat. That he had a great day but now that he is home he is feeling lonely and he doesn't want a lonely relationship. On the phone, he asked how I envisioned how a relationship would work as I was a busy person. I said weekends and after 6 months I would most likely feel comfortable with sleepovers during the week if my daughter was also comfortable with it. He then said he felt that the distance and the restrictions would be difficult for him and he would have to think about it. He said he felt a bit down that it would take so long as he can't bare being without me after he leaves. He said that he thinks I'm looking for more monogamous casual.

We had talked about the night time Skype thing and how he seems a bit different, I would call it a little sulky and sad and he said that he thinks it his fault that the conversation gets all heavy and that he just really feels deep loneliness and wants to be there with me. He said he didn't want to bring up the night skype thing as he didn't want us to stop them but he finds them very difficult and he gets sad. When we are in person this guy and I are great, more than great to be honest but at night he is so needy and sad it's pushing me away. The conversations are a bit like endless loops of are you ready for a relationship, why are you so tough? When you said this what did you mean?

We talked about how he told me he loved me over text and I didn't respond right away and how that hurt him, I said that I would prefer things like that to be said in person or at least over a phone. He said if it was him that got that message he would have responded straight away. He felt hurt and I get that, but I was just a bit shocked and didn't know how to respond. He said that this is an example of me being really tough and he finds it hard that I can be tough on him when he is so open with how he feels. He feels that we are wasting time not being together.


He admits that he is sulky and told me he knows this about himself and needs to work on why he feels this way. I said I just want to be happy and have fun with him. I see it being long term but I have a daughter and run a business but I have made lots of room for him in my life but things need to progress at a slower pace than he would like. He is a great guy we get one well but I can't work out if he has just fallen hard or he is nuts. I haven't known him long enough to get a sense of things. I'm starting to find this a bit much. But I have a feeling he would say that I'm not used to being in a relationship with someone that loves me.

In-person this guy is a 10 for me. When we are not together and he is alone and skyping, a bit sulky questioning the distance between us and the logistics and my toughness he is dropping to a 5 or less. I'm super independent, I don't need a relationship to be happy. I would like one but this is starting to feel hard. I'm not sure if the fact that he is super into me is causing him to act like this.


----------



## turnera

He is not in a healthy place. He needs to work on his own self esteem, get a life, make friends, do activities, and not place all his 'happiness' on whether a girl is climbing all over him. This will NOT get fixed by you giving him more attention, actually the opposite. He's one huge red flag wrapped up in a red bow, and if he can't handle you taking it slow, it's best to end it with him and let him move on to the next woman to suffocate. Sorry, JMHO.


----------



## lucy999

He is putting his eggs in one basket. He is banking so hard on this relationship and its hopeful success, he is killing it. Sounds like he doesn't have his own life and expects you to make him your life. 
It sounds too smothering TBH. I'm afraid that if this progresses any further and if you do make it permanent, he still won't be satiated even when he does have you. I fear he will get jealous or super clingy when you have to fulfill commitments, be it business or family or friends, elsewhere. It's unfortunate he won't listen and heed your request to slow it down. While it's good you two are open and honest and communicative, the fact is, he is not respecting you. He just isn't. He keeps pushing when you say to stop pushing (not in those exact words but pretty much).


----------



## Openminded

I’ve dealt with behavior like that and eventually it became so difficult that I ended the relationship. For a long time I thought things would get better but they didn’t. People like that don’t usually change.


----------



## Cooper

I ended my last relationship because it became exhausting trying to always passify her feelings, very similar to what you are going thru right now. That type of person is so hard to deal with, you can never miss them enough, you can never love them enough, you can never reassure them enough, it just becomes too much and ends up being a turn off. 

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I think all the issues you have concerns about are legitimate. Sometimes we meet someone who on paper seems perfect, or who we may even fall in love with, but....that doesn't mean that person is right for us. I hope things work out for you, but don't accept a relationship if it's not a comfortable fit.


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## 3Xnocharm

He is clingy, needy, and a control freak. If you stay in a relationship with this man he is going to isolate you from everyone and every thing in your life. Nothing will ever be enough. I even worry about him stalking you. 

You seriously need to end this. 


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## m.t.t

lucy999 said:


> He is putting his eggs in one basket. He is banking so hard on this relationship and its hopeful success, he is killing it. Sounds like he doesn't have his own life and expects you to make him your life.
> It sounds too smothering TBH. I'm afraid that if this progresses any further and if you do make it permanent, he still won't be satiated even when he does have you. I fear he will get jealous or super clingy when you have to fulfill commitments, be it business or family or friends, elsewhere. It's unfortunate he won't listen and heed your request to slow it down. While it's good you two are open and honest and communicative, the fact is, he is not respecting you. He just isn't. He keeps pushing when you say to stop pushing (not in those exact words but pretty much).


I think this is true. He works when he wants to but due to COVID he can't or at least he is working very little. It is interesting to me that he seems to have gone into instant long term relationships in the past even when there were children involved. I know some parents are like this but my daughter comes first and TBH I'm not desperate to totally upend my life for someone that I'm just getting to know. He is getting a lot of me for the little time we have known one another.

He posted on Facebook that he was now in a relationship, one of his sisters asked if he had asked me first, (he didn't he askes after the fact) did I even know we're at that stage. He told me this. From what I hear from him people are telling him to slow down but he tells them that he can't help it, he is just really excited by us.

Side note I did find out that his mother had manic depression. He told me this has been a fear of his, that he would end up like her. I don't know a lot about the illness, I wouldn't right someone off for it but it does give me pause in his behavior.


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## Prodigal

In a relationship of such short duration, you certainly have enough reasons already to pause and think about this. So I'll give my two cents from where I sit. Pull back. Now. You wouldn't be questioning some of the things he's doing this early on if your gut wasn't telling you that something is a little off here. 

I wouldn't be involved with someone like this. He could have stellar qualities, but that doesn't negate the red flags flapping in the breeze. Let's just say this man sounds neurotic. I don't need or want neurotic in my life. JMO.


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## m.t.t

3Xnocharm said:


> He is clingy, needy, and a control freak. If you stay in a relationship with this man he is going to isolate you from everyone and every thing in your life. Nothing will ever be enough. I even worry about him stalking you.
> 
> You seriously need to end this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for your concern. I feel that I'm in a very healthy place at the moment, and I have found someone that isn't.


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## Blondilocks

m.t.t said:


> Side note I did find out that his mother had manic depression. He told me this has been a fear of his, that he would end up like her. I don't know a lot about the illness, I wouldn't right someone off for it but it does give me pause in his behavior.


He may be bi-polar; but, I wouldn't ascribe his daytime vs nighttime behavior to bi-polar. That is his loneliness and neediness coming to the fore, imo. He doesn't seem to cope well with being alone when it's dark. He is entirely too desperate. He would completely take over your life to fill the void in him.

Bi-polar can be managed with meds which have to be continuously monitored and adjusted. It is not a walk in the park for anyone. I wouldn't sign up for it after seeing a relative's battle with it.


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## m.t.t

Blondilocks said:


> He may be bi-polar; but, I wouldn't ascribe his daytime vs nighttime behavior to bi-polar. That is his loneliness and neediness coming to the fore, imo. He doesn't seem to cope well with being alone when it's dark. He is entirely too desperate. He would completely take over your life to fill the void in him.
> 
> Bi-polar can be managed with meds which have to be continuously monitored and adjusted. It is not a walk in the park for anyone. I wouldn't sign up for it after seeing a relative's battle with it.


I'm just wondering if I keep the breaks on and keep my boundaries strong if he will adjust? I can't live totally enmeshed with anyone one, I have been in the past, I was a bit more like him once when I was much younger. Not as bad but I wanted to be close to my ex-husband in the early years. It was unhealthy and I fixed what this was about myself.


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## Livvie

My opinion is that he isn't going to adjust. I don't think the issues he has going on are adjustable, unless we are talking about years of work he chooses to do, not in reaction to your behavior.


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## Openminded

No, I doubt he will adjust. This is who he is. And red flags are everywhere.


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## lucy999

I don't think he will adjust, sadly. Because you are telling him your concerns and he isn't doing a damn thing to pull back. In fact, He steamrolls ahead with what he wants to do. That's extremely disrespectful. If he truly did "love" you, he would respect your wishes. Or at least attempt to compromise.


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## 3Xnocharm

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## Luminous

You've got a good head on your shoulders m.t.t.

You have thought about this alot and continue to be cautious.

What do your instincts say? That 'gut feeling' never lies, as much as we try to justify doing otherwise at times...


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## Cooper

Sometimes its better to let things develop organically instead of trying to steer a person to what you like or expect, especially early in a relationship. If you tell the guy "I don't like you getting pouty when we say goodnight" it's easy for him to modify his behavior for a time, but that isn't him being his true self and eventually he will revert back. By then you may feel more committed to the relationship and less likely to walk away.

Let him act freely, its the only way you will know if he is right for you.


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## turnera

Set up some boundaries in your head. Like "If I say I can't see him and he comes over anyway" - and you have a limit of 3 times, the third time he does it you break up with him. That way, you are putting in motion a good strong rule that you know is logical and if/when he crosses that boundary the third time, you have that rule to fall back on, to give you strength to break up. And if he never crosses that boundary, then you can feel better about the relationship moving forward.


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## m.t.t

turnera said:


> Set up some boundaries in your head. Like "If I say I can't see him and he comes over anyway" - and you have a limit of 3 times, the third time he does it you break up with him. That way, you are putting in motion a good strong rule that you know is logical and if/when he crosses that boundary the third time, you have that rule to fall back on, to give you strength to break up. And if he never crosses that boundary, then you can feel better about the relationship moving forward.


Thank you for this, it's a more concrete plan than I had and it's helpful. I think I have a lot good with this guy, I'm not afraid to say no though. I have come to realize that a lot of what is bothering me are things that I have had trouble with myself in the past. The words interdependent and enmeshment come to mind. I'm really excited to have this new feeling with someone but I'm not going to go forth in something that causes to regress to where I came from. 

I have decided to write what my boundaries are down on paper so they are more concrete. Relationships scare me, they always have. I'm used to being with unavailable people as I feel like I know how to play a role in that. I've done a lot of work and I'm ready for something better for myself. If he needs more from me than I can give right now then I'm not the person for him.


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## m.t.t

Luminous said:


> You've got a good head on your shoulders m.t.t.
> 
> You have thought about this alot and continue to be cautious.
> 
> What do your instincts say? That 'gut feeling' never lies, as much as we try to justify doing otherwise at times...


my gut tells me to give it more time.


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## m.t.t

I have given it more time. I have realized I have found myself in the middle of the punish cycle? This man has told me he struggles with jealousy and at first, I thought ok good to know but he really is the most jealous man I have ever come across. He is looking at who comments on my (not private) business Instagram account, if they leave heart emojis he is suspicious. I got a notification on my phone and he deemed it suspect due to the time of day and wanted to know who it was from. I did question him on this lack of trust and his response was that if he got a notification I would be suspicious and would want to know, I said I honestly wouldn't and it was just a weekly news update notification.

He also let me know that he thought that I was only sending him a kiss emoji or a love heart emoji not using them as a response to friends and on other people's insta posts. I explained that my friends and some of my customers have always used them and I don't want to stop just because he feels that they only belong to him. That in my industry if someone posts an image on Instagram of something that is visually great people will heart it, which means that they love it. Since that happed a couple of days ago he no longer sends me good morning text and will no longer use an emoji at all. He messages me later on and no emoji insight. I can't help but feel that this is some sort of punishment.

Also, he told me that as I told him on the weekend that I would take care of a few things before I visited that day he was suspicious that I was maybe seeing someone. I explained that I was feeling out of sorts and wanted to take a bit of time before I arrived so I was in a good headspace when I saw him. As it was I still wasn't feeling right but I thought that I hid it well. He noticed that I seemed a bit off and was upset with me. He felt that I ruined the day that he was excited to see me but because I was a bit headspacy the day was ruined and he was unhappy.

I had previously explained to him hat I sometimes go into a bit of spacy head space but not often. I said no one has ever noticed but I might seem a bit off. I was only like that for about 30 min into my visit and I let him know that I was feeling a bit spacy. He told me that if effected his mood and next time he would prefer me not to come. He said in hindsight though if I had phoned and told him I wouldn't be there until say after lunch or later then he would assume that I was cheating on him.

I did see some signs that things were maybe a bit flaggy but it really escalated this weekend with him saying some troubling things and really pushing boundaries. I can see that he struggles with anxiety and has major trust issues. I'm going to break it off but I feel that I need to be a bit careful how I do it I think. That will also be the end of me dating. I am just not good at not attracting controlling men.


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## Luminous

m.t.t, sounds like your course of action will bring you peace of mind (eventually). If this behaviour is being displayed at the start, goodness knows what you will be in for down the track if you continued.

Regarding breaking up with him, if you are to do it on 'his' turf, perhaps have a friend nearby in the neighbourhood or have them drive you to there if possible. He sounds very unstable.

You say you have trouble that you only attract controlling men, but, given your past experiences (relationships/marriage), how much of an opportunity have you had to really explore it? From what I have known of you, your personality is that of a person who is confident, but reserved/quiet, and doesn't need to dominate in a relationship, but can stand your ground when/if you need to. Controlling guys probably get drawn in by your quietness and gentle nature, but then freak out when they realise you have a backbone underneath all that. Just some food for thought.

Above all, just be careful.


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## 3Xnocharm

Not one single thing that you posted here surprises me about him. I could see this coming. I don’t think it’s that you attract controlling men, I think it’s that you see the signs and still allow them in your life. That is what you need to work on. We all saw it. Trust your instincts more going forward. Having a man in your life just simply to have a man in your life just is not worth it. I am so glad you are breaking this off. I say do it over the phone or text. 

Many many hugs to you. 


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## lucy999

I'm relieved you're breaking it off. Do not do it in person. Don't think, he deserves a face to face breakup. No, he doesn't. He is extremely rude and punitive, among other things. He doesn't deserve your grace.

I agree with @3Xnocharm. You choose to ignore red flags early on. I'm not going to kick you while you're down so I'll leave it at that.

I'm glad you're finally listening to your intuition and breaking things off. DON'T do it in person. You've seen how punitive he is when he doesn't get his way. This won't be pretty so you must be far away when you do it.


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## heartsbeating

Ohhhh absolutely.... do NOT do this in person. But do consider how to do this to leave him with feeling his dignity is in tact. NOT in person though.


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## heartsbeating

And that’s not something I’d typically suggest. For your safety, please not in person.


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## heartsbeating

Also, consider me overprotective if you need, and yes, I’m about to pull out a gender-related card here... but might be worthwhile letting a close male in your circle know that you’re breaking up with this guy. A brother, uncle, friend... I’m not sure for what purpose I’m saying this really. If you needed, you would call the police. I dunno, just felt the need to suggest you let others close to you know. You need physical human support, as well as virtual human support 😉 Like I said, I might be overprotective, but please be savvy and safe x. I don’t want you experiencing what my friends did.

Signed, a virtual human.


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## m.t.t

Thank you all for your support guys, I am really happier on my own but there is a small part of me that wants someone to share aspects of my ife with and I seem to ignore the flags or maybe I run toward them. I spoke to my psychologist about him and she did say run, it's not a walk away situation but a run away. But there is a small part of me that thinks maybe I'm tellng the story in a twisted way, maybe he is just really observent and blunt and I'm being harsh. Either way I feel that if I'm not happy why should I look into that further. 

My stepfather (he came into my life when I was 9) was I now realize a sadist he was also all of abusive subtypes, and he somehow always made me feel sorry for him. I think that maybe I need to explore this further.



Luminous said:


> m.t.t,
> 
> You say you have trouble that you only attract controlling men, but, given your past experiences (relationships/marriage), how much of an opportunity have you had to really explore it? From what I have known of you, your personality is that of a person who is confident, but reserved/quiet, and doesn't need to dominate in a relationship, but can stand your ground when/if you need to. Controlling guys probably get drawn in by your quietness and gentle nature, but then freak out when they realise you have a backbone underneath all that. Just some food for thought.
> 
> Above all, just be careful.


Thank you for this perspective, it's really helpful.


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## 3Xnocharm

There is still part of you that is trying to make excuses. You aren’t twisting anything about him. Can’t figure out why you insist on fighting yourself. 

Did you break it off yet?


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## Prodigal

Of course you want to share your life with someone else. But you need to work on your own issues first. If you get laser focused on doing whatever you can to change your mindset, I truly believe you can find a partner who doesn't have all the baggage of this current guy.

Please let us know when you breakup with this man, and let us know that you are safe!


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> But there is a small part of me that thinks maybe I'm tellng the story in a twisted way, maybe he is just really observent and blunt and I'm being harsh.


Okay, there may be a small part of you that thinks that... but a small part is not the majority of what you feel. I trust that you're not twisting the story. You need to trust that you're not. He may well be playing a part in that. Your psychologist said 'run'... they trust you're not twisting the story, either.


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## Openminded

Combination of denial and running toward the flags? Maybe. From the outside, from what I read, the caution signs were there.

It would probably be beneficial to do some more work on you before letting another “someone new” in your life.

What’s your plan for getting rid of him?


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## Blondilocks

m.t.t said:


> my gut tells me to give it more time.


Your gut lied. Try some probiotics. 

Seriously, you insist on ignoring more red flags than in a Communist parade and question if your psychologist is reading the situation correctly because you may be spinning the story in your favor. Your gut isn't the problem - it's your head. You're desperate and the desperation is calling the shots. If you don't care about your own well-being, at least think of your daughter.


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## 3Xnocharm

@m.t.t. How are things going?


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## m.t.t

3Xnocharm said:


> @m.t.t. How are things going?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thanks @3Xnocharm I'm good... I'm am questioning whether I'm making too much of things and my anxiety and the way I perceive things are part of the issue. I seem to have a fearful-avoidant attachment style that morphs into anxious preoccupied at times. I'm not sure if I m relationship material.

I don't know, I haven't broken things off with him. But I did decide that if there was another incident I would let him know that I'm not able to meet his needs and I think it's best if he finds a relationship that is more suited to what he needs from it.

I see my psychologist tomorrow so I will be talking it over a bit with her. I know a lot of you will be disappointed with his update. You all talking sense and I appreciate it but what if I just need to work things through more with him, what if a lot of this is me and my perception?


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## 3Xnocharm

It’s not your perception. He’s a ****. Let him go and find someone who isn’t a ****. (D i c k)

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## heartsbeating

I hope your psychologist can help you to stop second-guessing yourself. All the best.


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## Blondilocks

m.t.t said:


> thanks @3Xnocharm I'm good... I'm am questioning whether I'm making too much of things and my anxiety and the way I perceive things are part of the issue. I seem to have a fearful-avoidant attachment style that morphs into anxious preoccupied at times. I'm not sure if I m relationship material.
> 
> I don't know, I haven't broken things off with him. But I did decide that if there was another incident I would let him know that I'm not able to meet his needs and I think it's best if he finds a relationship that is more suited to what he needs from it.
> 
> I see my psychologist tomorrow so I will be talking it over a bit with her. I know a lot of you will be disappointed with his update. You all talking sense and I appreciate it but what if I just need to work things through more with him, *what if a lot of this is me and my perception?*


Your perception is all that matters. It forms your reality. Get comfortable with calling a spade a spade. Your psychologist will let you know if your perception/reality is out of whack with the rest of the world.

It doesn't matter one bit if another woman would perceive him to the be second coming - you aren't her.


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## lucy999

Hon, you aren't making too much of things from where I sit. You keep moving the goalposts and thus, your boundaries are eroding.

But I think it's good that you're seeing your therapist and talking about it. You're being proactive.


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## cma62

This thread had all kinds of triggers for me after living with my Ex H for 35 years , that displayed many of the same reactions and behaviours your boyfriend does.
It won’t get better and believe me you are second guessing yourself, thats what he wants.
It is subtle manipulation, so he can control you and push your boundaries.

I see the old me in you, not wanting to ruffle feathers, enjoying the love bombing.. its all a plan for him to make you complacent and cater to his every whim.
Don’t fall for the manipulation, he will suck the life out of you.

You will start to tolerate the small things that have given you knots in your stomach... unfortunately this will all proceed to be your new normal and he will have you right where he wants you.
Your life will not be your own.
It will be his life and you will just be along for the ride.
He will never love you for you but love you for what you can do for him.
Sever ties now before you become so enmeshed in this insidious mess, you wont see the forest for the trees and will be catering to his every whim , to your detriment.


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## Prodigal

m.t.t said:


> what if a lot of this is me and my perception?


Of course it's you and your perception. How we perceive people and situations is how we determine how to react/behave. It's not your perception(s) of this relationship that are skewed; it's the fact that you question their validity.


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## m.t.t

I'm exhausted and I'm done. I'll explain more later maybe.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> I'm exhausted and I'm done. I'll explain more later maybe.


Does that mean you ended things?


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## Evinrude58

He was talking about moving closer to you, and pressuring you for sex—— before you even met in person?

That is CARAZEE!!!!!

Sounds like a major stalker.

you haven’t run fast enough.

Didn’t read your whole thread. You’re Bi or what? Wondering how that works. 
Good luck. Everyone needs someone. Life is hard as it is. 
this guy isn’t the one.


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## Luminous

m.t.t said:


> I'm exhausted and I'm done. I'll explain more later maybe.


Be sure to look after yourself m.t.t.


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## lucy999

m.t.t said:


> I'm exhausted and I'm done. I'll explain more later maybe.


Ok. Take care of yourself and be careful.


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## WandaJ

m.t.t said:


> what if a lot of this is me and my perception?


Frankly, that's all it matters. It is your relationship, your life and your perception is what matters. You have every right to have your own perceptions of the guy and make decision based on it.

He is already exhausting you..... want this to be your life?
There are so many nice guys out there. be patient, work on yourself first, on increasing your self- esteem, so you don't let any guy outthere to mold you into what he wants.


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## Prodigal

m.t.t said:


> I'm exhausted and I'm done. I'll explain more later maybe.


Take your time. If you feel like posting in the future, I look forward to hearing how this played out. If you don't feel like giving details, that's fine too.


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## heartsbeating

hey sweetheart, hope you're doing okay.


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> hey sweetheart, hope you're doing okay.


Thanks for checking in with me, it's very much appreciated. I'm feeling pretty burnt out emotionally at the moment to be honest.

My daughter is having serious heath issues and her father isn't being at all supportive or understanding but it does really remind me of why I'm better off not being with him. It would be nice to have the other parent to discuss and decide things with.


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## m.t.t

UPDATE- sorry it's long winded but this is how it went down.

I got sucked back into things with him. I feel foolish but this is how it was, he would twist my mind around and I was uncertain what was going on if I was faulty in my thinking that he was manipulating me even when he indicated that he was because he wanted his own way. We would go out or go away and we would have a great time but when it came time to part ways he would let me know what I did wrong, what he was disappointed about. I would be shocked and upset because it was ridiculous, I thought we had a great time, but he would bring up things like I didn't paint with him that night. (I had fallen asleep on the bed after dinner ) or I wasn't responsive enough in bed on the holiday etc (just so you know I am responsive he had me under the microscope all the time)

I would drive home and think this is insane, this is over and he would ring and he would be nice again and I would soften and I would be receptive again. This sounds pathetic I know but I think he hooked into something deeply ingrained in me. He asked for more and more of my time, blocking me if I took too long to call that night getting my daughter ready for bed or get sulky when I wanted an early night so would cap the conversation at 11.30 pm. Some nights he would say goodnight at 7 pm because he felt that I was too quiet that day and no longer wanted to talk to me later that night because he was tired of waiting for me. We would talk at 9.30 at night and talk or skype during the day. I would spend all weekend with him including Friday nights and sometimes visit him during a weeknight. My time was limited with my business and my daughter but I gave away all my free time to him. If I rand him and then signed off talking and said I'm off for a walk with a friend he would say you told me you were flat out busy with work why are you wasting time walking with a friend when you don't make time for me?

Any bruise, love heart emoji on my business Instagram had him questioning me. etc. I was caught in a cycle where I wanted out but couldn't pull the pin. I then went away for 3 nights. My son organized a beach house and invited me, his sister his partner, and myself. He wasn't happy that he wasn't invited. I explained that we had only been seeing each other for a short time, my son had not yet met him when it was booked and it was my son's holiday. I also felt that he is naturally dominant and would insist on doing things his way, go to the beach he wanted and eat when he felt that we should eat, etc. It would have been a very different holiday. I did feel like he should be invited but I knew that he always found fault and would sulk and I didn't want this short stay away to create conflict. We had a great time just hanging out. I text him during the day and nights, but he wasn't really responsive. He complained that I don't play that board game with him and that I looked like I was having fun and he wished that I showed that fun side to him. He told me I wasn't really fun to be around normally. The next morning he rang me to tell me he was letting me know he was back on apps looking for friends because he was too lonely. I asked what apps but he didn't want to tell me but said it wasn't tinder and that is too full-on and not him! I asked if they were dating apps and he said some but they also have friendship options and that is what he is after. I let him know that I found it hurtful that he rang me to tell me that when I'm away, that we had plans for when I got back etc, he made out he had no idea about plans and he feels rejected that he wasn't invited away and everyone he has told this too has said it's weird that he wasn't invited away with us. Maybe it is weird but I wanted time with my children and my son didn't want to invite a man that he hadn't met.

He then ended up sending me a break-up text and then told me he is blocking me later that night. I refused to let it ruin the last bit of my time away. He sent another text two days later telling me that he missed me and said that I'm cold heated etc as I didn't fight for the relationship I just let him end it over text. He said most women would find a way around the blocked text like email or knocking on the door and fight for the relationship and he guesses that I didn't really love him and I'm way too cold for him. He said that he has joined dating apps as he doesn't want to wait as COVID might make meeting people hard if we go into lockdown again. I haven't responded and I'm not going to.

Yes, you all warned me and I must love to be a fool. I guess I'm having a sad day about it all.

--


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## PieceOfSky

Sounds like you are learning from it. That’s the opposite of being a fool.

Sorry you’re feeling sad, but it sounds like you are much better off leaving him behind.


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## Luminous

As much as you are having a down day (hope your daughter is on the mend), your description of recent events seems to indicate this guy is a (borderline) sociopath, with the maturity of a child. 

Either that or his insecurity is his driving force/motivation, and that never ends well. Just reading what you wrote regarding his behaviour was draining. You can't have anything resembling a normal life when someone like that is in it. They can never take a back seat, or not be the centre of attention. 

I hope once things settle down you get some peace m.t.t


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## Openminded

Yes, it was all too predictable but at least you got out in time. Those stories often have a very bad ending. Glad that yours didn’t.


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## Prodigal

From your update, I'd say it was (1) all about his insecurities, and (2) he played far too many games. This guy isn't relationship material. He's a self-centered, immature man. Be very, very happy that this relationship is history. Learn from it and move on.


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## Evinrude58

You first asked if it wS normal. Nothing at all normal about this guy. 
i Believe this person to be EXTREMELY dangerous. You got lucky getting out with your life.


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## 3Xnocharm

He’s completely disgusting. I’m so glad you’re out and that you’re ok! I hope this provides you with a strong lesson to listen to yourself when those alarm bells go off and those who care about you, and that you never again punish yourself with a horrible man. Remember that YOU are the prize, girl! And if it isn’t a FK YES, then it’s a FK NO. 

Happy new year and new beginning to you! 


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## m.t.t

Thank you for listening, there was so much that happened. From sexual boundaries pushed, it becoming obvious that he wanted my daughter around less even suggesting boarding school might be helpful for her, to wanting to 'help' me with my business and suggesting splitting profits. I had to walk away from this situation with him thinking it was his choice in the end. I realized I was scared on some levels and also worried he was a great guy and it was all in my head. When he blew up at me for asking my father's opinion on a car after he had already given me his (he said that if I ask for his opinion I shouldn't need to ask for anyone else's, if i do feel the need then don't waste his time) and hot tears welled up in my eyes while my children were in the other room and I had to blink them away and pretend that it was all ok, even though he was now cold to me and sulking. I knew that I was allowed to ask someone else's opinion and I didn't want to be that women, but I could see that this is where this is heading and in fact I was already there.

A simple shoulder massage, with me flinching and asking him to ease up a bit because it was hurting and him NOT stopping and saying it can't be hurting that it's not that hard, and me having to pull away from him to make him stop, he then got angry and cold and told me that I had to make things dramatic and I'm attention seeking and my daughter is now going to thing that he hurts me. He refused to let me explain that my arms are sensitive that I loved the massage but can he just be a little bit more gentle. He wouldn't talk to me or hold my hand, it was awful silence.

I think just need to write this out so I don't forget, I don't take him back again.


----------



## Openminded

Yeah — I don’t think he’s through with you yet so it’s certainly possible he may circle back now and then to test the waters. Good to have it all here so you can reread if you’re tempted to take him back.


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## Prodigal

The consistent theme I see in everything you've posted about this guy is he resorts to childish behavior; thus, the sulking every time he doesn't get his way. He also discounts what you think and feel. The problem is, you already do that to yourself, so he was adding to your self-doubts. 

Look, I'm just some stranger out in cyberspace. But I can tell you this guy is MAJOR bad news. And he preys on women like you. Go no contact. Block him from any and all media. Just get him out of your life completely. He's toxic.


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## Evinrude58

I never liked this term, but controlling, is the word. Psycho is another.
Dangerous!!!!!!!

swbd your daughter to boarding school?
You’re a really bad parent if you ever speak to this guy again.
If I knew you in real life, I’d be afraid for you.


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## lucy999

I am so glad you are rid of this extremely dangerous man. And I don't think I'm being dramatic when I say he is very, very dangerous.

Nothing would ever be enough for him if you had decided to stay. He's a taker. He will take, take, and take some more until you are left with nothing--spiritually, emotionally, financially . . . You will have no self-esteem and no other relationships except for him.

You're not a fool. You were hopeful and manipulated by a seasoned pro.

Please. Block him. And mean it. Nothing good can ever be had from letting him back into your life.

I'm really glad you're ok and you're done with him.

If you start to feel weak or sad enough to think about reaching out to him, come here instead. We will remind you of why you shouldn't be with him (we won't be cruel--we will be supportive!) and talk you off the ledge.

Please block him right this minute. 

And with that, happy new year! What a great way to start your new year. Well done.


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## heartsbeating

Hey darling heart, block his number and contact. This is the right thing. We’re here to ‘listen’ and your experience may be helpful to someone else. I’m proud of you for seeing him for what he is.


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## m.t.t

I'm back with disappointing news. I felt strong and great after it ended via text, I pulled up my socks and thought ok it's over let's get back to my life and how I want it to look. To be honest I was happy. I want to share it because I don't think I'm alone in this way of thinking and reacting and I feel stupid. I feel weirdly confused and anxious over this whole thing. He unblocked me and reached out, He has been reaching out via email, etc constantly, dissecting the relationship teling me that he misses me etc, have mostly ignored but then I responded.

I saw him for the first time on Wednesday and we have started talking again. I'm not good at ignoring people and I'm not a blocker. He kept face timing me until I picked up and I got drawn again. I don't really understand why but I guess all of his words of missing me etc has drawn me back in.

He wanted to see how we went without the pressure, so he suggested casual as we both agreed we want different things in a relationship he said that I'm only comfortable with causal, where he wants a proper relationship. The way he puts it makes me feel like I need to say no I am capable of more, I want more! A lot of our conversations go like this, for example, he will say I would like to go here but you don't like going there so there is no point, then I will say why would you say that I love going there. He said he talked like try and get me to come back with a positive, to test me.

I said I am comfortable with a fully committed relationship. He then said unless I give him 4 nights a week he will continue to look for a partner to get his needs met. He then went on to say that he has run into his ex a few times now. I said to him that it's strange that he didn't run into her when we were together but as soon as we broke up he keeps running into her. I can't help thinking he is telling me without any prompting on my behalf is being used to manipulate me. He has always been over the top with monogamy but lets me know that he is talking to lots of new people but would rather have a relationship with me, but only if i give him 4 nights.

I have no idea why this man has such a hold over me. I've turned into that woman, needy and uncertain and I hate it. One of the last things we spoke about last night over facetime was that time after my car accident while I was in hospital getting checked out he offered to massage my feet but complained that I had hair on my toes and he started ripping them out with his fingers. I told him to stop because it hurt, it was laughed off by both of us, but it left me feeling uncomfortable. During our conversation last night he told me he did that ( ripping the hit out) because he was upset and pissed off with me ringing for my ex-husband right after the accident. I explained once again to him that I was still in shock at the time and all I could think of was that I couldn't go to the hospital because my daughter would be left at school.

Why can't walk away from this man? It feels as though he is offering me something I really want and I can have it if only I'm a certain way and I buying into it.

I can walk away... and I should. I think it will be easier if I just send a text and stop the face to face stuff, I just get pulled back in far too easily somehow.


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## Evinrude58

Personally, I think you could be a case study for students of forensic psychology that want to know what some of the women that dated Ted Bundy would have said. I wish you’d listen. This person is dangerous. I am not the only one seeing it.


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## Openminded

If you don’t have a therapist then you need to find one and if you already have one then you need to find a new one because they obviously aren’t helping you.


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## m.t.t

Evinrude58 said:


> Personally, I think you could be a case study for students of forensic psychology that want to know what some of the women that dated Ted Bundy would have said. I wish you’d listen. This person is dangerous. I am not the only one seeing it.


I feel ridiculous in this, I don't feel that he is being respectful, I feel stupid even posting here, but I can't see that he is dangerous. Can you explain please?


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## Evinrude58

I’m not going to waste my time, respectfully. You’re blind to what I’ll say so I will at least give you a little future deja vu in order to probably save your life:

step 1: he’ll isolate you from friends and your support group. Don’t have a support group? Reason #1 he picked you.

step 2: He will continue to force you into a relationship. He will move in with you.
He will force you by manipulation to constantly bend to his will. He will start sentences with “if you cared about me/love me you would/wouldn’t do xxxxxx.”

step 3: He will start breaking your self esteem bytelling you all the reasons you aren’t good enough for him and especially anyone else.

step 4: You will finally start pulling away and he will sense it. His fear of abandonment will cause him to lose his **** and when he thinks or you’re stupid enough to tell him that you’re done with him, he’s going to beat the hell out of you or possibly kill you.

Now ma’am, I don’t know you. I wish I was wrong. You’re not gonna listen. But I’ve been blunt as hell and crystal clear about this with you. You will now start seeing these things and seeing this progression.
I wish you wouldn’t let it start, because it’s a damn train wreck waiting to happen.

But just maybe you’ll remember what I described when you start living it with this guy, and get some help before he physically harms you.

I will say nothing further on your thread. But I wish you luck, and I really believe you should avoid this man, and see a professional for your emotional weakness that are preventing you from seeing what a normal person would see IMMEDIATELY.

im sorry for the 2x4, but someone needs to waje you up before it’s too late.


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## BlueWoman

Nothing here screams red flag. Whether he's the right guy or not remains to be seen. But enjoy the now. This is the fun part.  I responded to the original message, but apparently I need to read more.


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## BlueWoman

Whoa. Now I've read the thread. This a hot mess. Once I read your second post, I realized this guy was bad news. But he's not the problem you need solve. You know he's not going to respect you. It doesn't matter that he didn't let you explain that he was hurting you when giving you an arm massage. It doesn't matter that he sulks when he doesn't get his way. The problem you need to solve, is why do you keep going back to someone who is obviously emotionally abusive. And how much longer do you think it will be before it turns physical? Because I have got to say, this screams of classic abuse. He's going to hit you and you are going to to convince yourself it was your fault. 

I get fearful avoidance. I'm FA as well. But that doesn't mean that my instincts are wrong. You knew almost immediately that he was bad news. And yet here it is 4 months later and you are still involved with him. Why aren't a blocker? Whatever your reason is, get over it. Block him and then figure why repeatedly invited this chaos into your life. 

This is not about your fearful avoidance. FA is when you feel really strongly for someone and that intense feeling that you have for someone panics you. So you avoid healthy relationships to avoid the anxiety. If this were a healthy relationship we would all be telling you that he's a great guy, and you would be obsessing about a bald spot that makes him not perfect. 

But the need to get into bad relationships is something else. I am sure that is a real thing as well. And I'll admit I have never had the urge to be in a bad relationship. Even my ex wasn't actually a horrible person. He wasn't abusive. This guy is abusive. And you are like a toad in hot water. Every time you tolerate his bad behavior, he turns up the heat. So are you ready to jump out now? He's not fixable. But I think you might be.


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## lucy999

He insults you by commenting about the hair on your toes, then proceeds to rip it out? While you're still in the hospital after you've been in an accident?

Then he tells you it was because you called your ex-husband before him? This was his punishment to you? He sounds like a psychopath. 

And the shoulder massage incident?

This sort of behavior will only escalate. That is dangerous. Like I said before, he is a taker. He is not a giver. Tell us--what exactly has he given you? 

He has pushed your sexual boundaries. He got upset when you asked your dad his opinion about a car after this man already gave you one. He suggested boarding school for your daughter. This man wants to possess you and totally control you. He is extremely punitive for even the most innocuous of circumstances.

You said you wrote these things out so you can go back and read them. Have you done that? I'm holding you accountable.

This sounds like the type of man who will end things in a murder-suicide. 

What would you tell your daughter about a man like this who treated her the way this man treats you?

I think you went back not because he has a "hold" on you, but because you are lonely and he's the only one in your orbit right now. Dump him and love yourself, hon. You don't owe him any explanations. He is abusive. Already!

Do NOT go down this path. I am telling you. Your story will end up on 48 hours.


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## Openminded

People like him continue to push and push because they want more and more control. What you’ve seen so far is only the tip of the iceberg. Much worse is in your future if you don’t get out and stay out.

The real question is not why he’s the way he is — it’s why you think so little of yourself to settle for someone like him.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> I feel ridiculous in this, I don't feel that he is being respectful, I feel stupid even posting here, but I can't see that he is dangerous. Can you explain please?


Are bullies dangerous?

They can be - to their victims. So for you, it’s that he is creating instability; guessing yourself and constant justifying, while reeling you back in. Plus the toe-hair pulling and alike to be nasty. So if he was doing that after an accident and in a public setting (hospital), indicates what he is capable of down the track and in a private setting.

None of this is loving and caring. Choose carefully who you surround yourself with.

If I was sharing what you wrote, what would you suggest that I do?


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## heartsbeating

Also, good question from another poster, why aren’t you a blocker? You owe this guy nothing. You do, however, owe it to yourself to recognise this is unhealthy and act accordingly.


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## heartsbeating

Also the consequences, if you continue, could impact you long-term in how you respond with others - and potentially with good men. Example, friend has been in two long-term abusive relationships. We took her out to dinner as our guest. Hubs was paying and she carried on like a pork-chop about this gesture at the table. He looked to me in slight bewilderment. I stepped in, explained this was something we wanted to do, and suggested she just accept it with thanks - but then suggested if she really wasn’t comfortable with it, then we didnt need to pay. She decided to accept it with thanks. And then still continued on. I suggested she needed to stop talking about it, as it was done, and intended as a caring and welcoming gesture. Afterwards, she told me that she wasn’t used to being treated and considered like that (she lives further away). Another moment cropped up, whereby my husband offered to drive us to friend’s dinner party. He didn’t partake in the party offerings, as he had the responsibility of driving afterwards. In the car, she apologised to him that it was due to her that he couldn’t partake (due to him driving). He explained to her that it was his choice, and he was happy to have that responsibility. This was huge for her to hear and recognise. She shared with him she was used to being blamed for things in the past - so in her mindset she thought my husband would somehow be blaming her that he ‘had’ to drive. It would not have even entered my husband’s perspective.

She has achieved so much for herself, and is having therapy, however, it’s those seemingly small interactions where the impact of those relationships (and childhood) can become evident.


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## Blondilocks

You want advice on what is normal. Here it is: there is nothing 'normal' about this guy unless we're talking about psychopaths.

You're flattered that he is so focused on you. You think you must really be something special for him to be so nuts about you. Darlin', this isn't about you. The fact is you're the only game in town because you are the only one who will tolerate him. If his ex could tolerate him, she wouldn't be his ex. You win the booby prize.

The shoulder massage didn't clue you in and the hair pulling while you were incapacitated in a hospital bed didn't clue you in. Trying to get rid of your daughter didn't clue you in. Not wanting you to talk to your dad didn't clue you in. 

What will it take? A punch in the face? Or, maybe a punch to your daughter's face? For God's sake, be a responsible parent and get the guy away from your life and your daughter's life.


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## Prodigal

Sadly, you were given tons of advice on how your relationship with this guy is not normal. And, even more sadly, you chose to ultimately ignore the feedback/advice. There are countless folks who post here asking for advice but rarely take it. Which leads me to conclude that people will do what they want no matter how many opinions they ask for. That's fine, because I realize I have no control whatsoever over what people ultimately choose to do with their lives.


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## Cooper

m.t.t It both angers me and hurts me to read your post.

I get angry because it's obvious you are being manipulated and groomed by a controlling man and there's nothing I can do about it. 

It hurts me because this is a form of abuse, and it will get worse, and again I can nothing to stop it. He will hurt and damage you both physically and emotionally, and your daughter WILL suffer as well.

Any good man would want to kick the **** out of this guy and make him leave you alone. You need to find the strength to erase this guy from your life.


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## Ms. Hawaii

I’m scared for you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m.t.t

Blondilocks said:


> What will it take? A punch in the face? Or, maybe a punch to your daughter's face? For God's sake, be a responsible parent and get the guy away from your life and your daughter's life.


I've kept him out of my family home for awhile now, so he hasn't see my daughter since before I posted it was over. I am a good parent, or at lest I try my hardest to be the best parent possible.

A bit has happened since I posted. He did draw me back into listening to him and I was thinking again that maybe I was seeing him in a negative light. I spoke to a domestic abuse hotline tonight and she echoed what you have all said. She said what he did to me today is a form of assault. I wont go into it, there is no need but I have told him it's best if we don't see each other again and I cut all contact.

I don't know why I kept trying, I don't think I'm lonely but maybe I am. I also realize that I'm very easily manipulated and vulnerable to people that want to take advantage of me. I'm not in business or in other areas in life but in a romantic sense I think I have a lot more work to do. I find saying no and holding and setting boundaries far too difficult for me.

He is gone and I am really thankful for you all.


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## Evinrude58

m.t.t said:


> I've kept him out of my family home for awhile now, so he hasn't see my daughter since before I posted it was over. I am a good parent, or at lest I try my hardest to be the best parent possible.
> 
> A bit has happened since I posted. He did draw me back into listening to him and I was thinking again that maybe I was seeing him in a negative light. I spoke to a domestic abuse hotline tonight and she echoed what you have all said. She said what he did to me today is a form of assault. I wont go into it, there is no need but I have told him it's best if we don't see each other again and I cut all contact.
> 
> I don't know why I kept trying, I don't think I'm lonely but maybe I am. I also realize that I'm very easily manipulated and vulnerable to people that want to take advantage of me. I'm not in business or in other areas in life but in a romantic sense I think I have a lot more work to do. I find saying no and holding and setting boundaries far too difficult for me.
> 
> He is gone and I am really thankful for you all.


Bravo! 
I think you have made a super important advancement in dealing with this— acknowledging that you have some sort of weakness in romantic dealings.
The advancement is that you actually STOPPED interacting with this person. So many people can’t use the self discipline to control their emotions and put actual brakes in a relationship that is dangerous, or just hurtful. It’s not easy!

I’m glad you have the logic to call and talk to a real person who has dealt with this kind of stuff and get some firm resolve to end this.

This guy is a clearly damaged and dangerous person.


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## 3Xnocharm

Thank God. 

I hope like hell you blocked him this time. It’s the only way. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Openminded

He needs to be blocked this time. And permanently. No testing the water again — that’s just asking for trouble. As for future romantic relationships, you need to take a long break until you do a lot more work on yourself. People like him look for people like you. And there are more just waiting for the opportunity.


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## Openminded

If you need an incentive to keep him out of your life, think about the impact on your daughter if something happened to you. He’s been testing you to see how much he can get away with before he escalates to the next level. Next time you may not be able to just walk away. What will that do to your daughter?


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## Blondilocks

You posted on the 7th and on the 8th you were back at it? 
This guy isn't mesmerizing you and he is no Svengali. He is what he is - an abusing creep. It is all on you if you continue to sign up to be abused.


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## MattMatt

@m.t.t Your husband is a control freak.

My wife has hairy toes. So what did I do? I kissed her hairy toes, because they are HER hairy toes. I didn't pull them out.

He really doesn't deserve you.


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## DownByTheRiver

Deleted by author after realizing there's more to the story.


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## Livvie

See post 173. This isn't a husband, it's a man she met not that long ago. And no need for a detective. She's decided to terminate the relationship.


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## Cooper

Good for you ending things with this guy. Don't be surprised if he keeps trying to contact you, guys like him don't like to feel as if they lost. 

You made a comment in one of your post as to why you would let something like this happen. Many times it's because we don't want to hurt others, or disappoint them, sometimes even at the cost of our own happiness or better judgement.

In the future never be afraid of saying NO. You don't owe long winded explanations, or face to face last conversations. Be strong and learn to be a bit selfish.


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## m.t.t

Cooper said:


> Good for you ending things with this guy. Don't be surprised if he keeps trying to contact you, guys like him don't like to feel as if they lost.
> 
> You made a comment in one of your post as to why you would let something like this happen. Many times it's because we don't want to hurt others, or disappoint them, sometimes even at the cost of our own happiness or better judgement.
> 
> In the future never be afraid of saying NO. You don't owe long winded explanations, or face to face last conversations. Be strong and learn to be a bit selfish.


I've have always been deeply effected but other peoples disappointment. It causes deep upset in me. Even if i don't like the person, its an emotion that that I see that cuts me deeply. You are onto something with this comment. 

He is the most insecure man I had ever been involved with. There were times when I wanted to not see him, like after an accusing phone call the night before or when he would just hang up on me because I would say I didn't have long to talk tonight. I would always go because I knew he would have thought deeply obout what food to buy to make us for lunch. He would want to discuss what to buy us and I coudnt stand the image of the food that he bought us to eat just sitting there in the fridge and the disapontnt that he would have felt that we are not sharing it. Saying no if someone is going to be disappointed cuts me like a knife. This is something I guess I need to work on as I have no idea why I would not consider my own discomfort in doing something first.


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## Openminded

You are very co-dependent. Don’t get into another relationship until you work all of this out with a therapist or you will just repeat it.


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## Openminded

It’s especially dangerous in this situation to go along with what he wants and not tell him no for fear of disappointing him. Because he’ll be back (if he isn’t already).


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## Prodigal

Hey, I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are bringing issues from your childhood into your adult relationships. I mean, c'mon, you need to tell people like this guy to get lost. The thing is, you are allowing people's opinions of you dictate how you respond. 

Please, please, please, stay out of all relationships until you learn to hear your own inner voice. Learn to allow that voice to dictate how you respond in relationships. Honestly, you have no business trying to be in a relationship at this point.


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## m.t.t

Openminded said:


> It’s especially dangerous in this situation to go along with what he wants and not tell him no for fear of disappointing him. Because he’ll be back (if he isn’t already).


I guess I am co-dependent in one aspect, I continually fail to put my needs first and I often don't know what I want to do, I will happily do what ever my partner wants to do despite the fact that I really don't want to. I had this issue in my marriage, I really thought that I had sorted this out but I guess I slip back into it easily. The other aspects of codependency are not really an issue for me though. 

I know that he will be back, but I wont be going back or engaging with him. I blocked him after he reached out to me the following morning. I blocked him without responding. I can't afford to ever let myself get pulled back into it. He just had a way that pulled me in despite anything that had just happened the day before. He is dangerous for me in many ways.


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## m.t.t

Prodigal said:


> Hey, I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are bringing issues from your childhood into your adult relationships. I mean, c'mon, you need to tell people like this guy to get lost. The thing is, you are allowing people's opinions of you dictate how you respond.
> 
> Please, please, please, stay out of all relationships until you learn to hear your own inner voice. Learn to allow that voice to dictate how you respond in relationships. Honestly, you have no business trying to be in a relationship at this point.



I think you are right. I do find your last sentence a bit harsh and that is maybe because it's painful to hear. I have read that you cant expect to attract healthy partners if you are not in a healthy place yourself. I thought I was, my therapist thought I was in a good place but this guy just threw me of balance from the start, I really don't know why I allowed it.

I did hear my own inner voice right from the start, but I kept ignoring it. So I do have one and great instincts I think but I place more importance on pleasing the other person than myself and I also doubt the hell out of that inner voice.


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## Prodigal

m.t.t said:


> I do find your last sentence a bit harsh and that is maybe because it's painful to hear.


The truth hurts, but there it is. At this time, you ignore your inner voice when it warns you to steer clear of certain people. You posed the question as to whether or not this latest guy's behavior was "normal." You pretty much got a resounding "no" to that. So I stand by my opinion that you have no business being in a relationship for the time being.

Work on having a good relationship with yourself first.


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## m.t.t

Hi everyone,

I still come back here to read through this thread on occasion. It's helpful as this man still finds ways to reach out to me. They are always very manipulative messages designed to get me to respond to him. I ignore him though. They are always about how badly I treated him, how I'm a liar as I said I was ready for a relationship yet I pulled back etc. They get blocked and ignored.

This was an extremely difficult relationship to extract myself from. I was talking to a helpline for domestic violence as I said all it took was a phone call or a facetime call and I would be drawn back into agreeing to meet with him. I said it was almost like I was being hypnotized somehow. My brain was saying no but I was agreeing. It was really confusing. She asked me if I had heard of fawning? I hadn't. Learning about fawning allowed me to understand what the hell was going on with me. Sadly I got why battered and abused women stay. 

He was the most manipulative, mentally abusive, controlling crazy-making person I have ever met. I am deeply grateful to you all for trying so hard, reading back I can see that I made so many excuses for what was happening and the self-doubt over what I knew wasn't right is alarming really. I have been out of the relationship for a while now and I have been told that he has taken up what I do for a living as an obsessive hobby and he is also following my closest business contacts and friends on his social media... This I find creepy but I'm not totally surprised. I now strongly believe (as hinted at by my psychologist ) that he is an obsessive Bordeline Personality Disordered BPD individual. I received a link below that I only skimmed through at the time I'm ashamed to say, but I read it a few weeks back. The description of the controlling BPD individual is the nightmare that I also went through.

I hope that this thread can help others.



StarFires said:


> *Romeo Is Bleeding: When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong*
> This will help you to know what to look out for.


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## Openminded

I’m glad to hear you didn’t fall back into the trap. I think he has some very serious issues and they would have only escalated with time.


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## 3Xnocharm

I’m so glad to read that you are holding your ground, good for you! It is a little disturbing that you can still see messages from him, that sounds like you don’t have him properly blocked… You should take care of that for your own peace of mind and sanity. There is no point in allowing yourself to be subjected to these messages that keep him in your life in a small way. He needs to be purged!  I do think this thread can very likely help someone else in the future, and I am glad that you read back through it for yourself and provide updates. 

You got this! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating

3Xnocharm said:


> I’m so glad to read that you are holding your ground, good for you! It is a little disturbing that you can still see messages from him, that sounds like you don’t have him properly blocked… You should take care of that for your own peace of mind and sanity. There is no point in allowing yourself to be subjected to these messages that keep him in your life in a small way. He needs to be purged!  I do think this thread can very likely help someone else in the future, and I am glad that you read back through it for yourself and provide updates.
> 
> You got this!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awww ... have I told you lately @3Xnocharm that I dig your presence here?

And completely agree about the blocking.


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## heartsbeating

To also echo those earlier thoughts, I'm also glad that you're here to offer insights to others and share with us how you are. 

I am SO glad you see him for exactly what he is. Keep protecting yourself.


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## 3Xnocharm

heartsbeating said:


> Awww ... have I told you lately @3Xnocharm that I dig your presence here?
> 
> And completely agree about the blocking.


Aw thank you honey! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lucy999

I know we're adults and all, but I feel the need to tell you how proud I am of you. 

I know what fawning means in a general sense but I googled it for the definition as it applies to relationships. It's a trauma response. I found my reading about it quite interesting. Thank you for saying something about it. I had never heard of it in that context before.

You're doing great by not responding to his continued communication. I still maintain that he has the potential to be highly dangerous, so please have a heightened awareness about you. Okay?


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## Evinrude58

I’m kinda surprised you had the self discipline to stay away from the guy. You probably saved your own life. He is a very dangerous person I think.
I wish you luck finding a man who is both mentally stable and digs you as he should.
As someone said, this thread would be good reading for someone else in your situation. There’s a lot of women that fall victim to these guys whose cheese slid off their cracker a long time ago.


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## DownByTheRiver

You need to block him every way and really cut him off. I am getting a really psycho vibe from this guy. The toe hair wasn't the least of it. How sadistic. I'm getting a Charles Manson David koresh vibe. There's something seriously wrong with this guy. Please cut him off totally so he'll move on to the next victim.


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## m.t.t

DownByTheRiver said:


> You need to block him every way and really cut him off. I am getting a really psycho vibe from this guy. The toe hair wasn't the least of it. How sadistic. I'm getting a Charles Manson David koresh vibe. There's something seriously wrong with this guy. Please cut him off totally so he'll move on to the next victim.


I have cut him off. There are lots of ways for me to be contacted so he had sent messages.



Evinrude58 said:


> I’m kinda surprised you had the self discipline to stay away from the guy. You probably saved your own life. He is a very dangerous person I think.
> I wish you luck finding a man who is both mentally stable and digs you as he should.
> As someone said, this thread would be good reading for someone else in your situation. There’s a lot of women that fall victim to these guys whose cheese slid off their cracker a long time ago.


I laughed so hard at the cheese and cracker remark😂

I'm feeling ok, a bit more fragile than I did but I'm ok. I don't think I will go back to online dating again though.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

m.t.t said:


> I have cut him off. There are lots of ways for me to be contacted so he had sent messages.
> 
> 
> 
> I laughed so hard at the cheese and cracker remark😂
> 
> I'm feeling ok, a bit more fragile than I did but I'm ok. I don't think I will go back to online dating again though.


That dude needs to get diagnosed, that's for sure.


----------



## m.t.t

DownByTheRiver said:


> That dude needs to get diagnosed, that's for sure.


he apparently sees a psychologist, one of the alarming things that I found out later in the relationship was that he has had several psychologists stop seeing him, they let him go. He felt is was to do with his ex and that toxic slightly unbelievable story. He would also say that sometimes his current psychologist would give him double sessions back to back which I find also odd. But as far as a diagnosis goes he was only seeing them to get over his ex and then deal with our relationship issues etc. He said he didn't even have an anxiety diagnosis which I find odd

Both my psychologist and who I've talked to on the abuse helpline have all strongly suggested that he is dangerous and that he is most definitely personality disordered but with the disclaimer that he isn't their patient so they obviously cannot diagnose but warn me. BPD or one of the dark triads.


----------



## m.t.t

lucy999 said:


> I know we're adults and all, but I feel the need to tell you how proud I am of you.
> 
> I know what fawning means in a general sense but I googled it for the definition as it applies to relationships. It's a trauma response. I found my reading about it quite interesting. Thank you for saying something about it. I had never heard of it in that context before.
> 
> You're doing great by not responding to his continued communication. I still maintain that he has the potential to be highly dangerous, so please have a heightened awareness about you. Okay?


Thank you, it's nice to hear that 

I really wanted to come back add the term fawning to my thread. I really believe understanding fawning is what made it easier to get out. The woman on the helpline that I spoke to that day gave me the most incredible gift by asking if I have heard of fawning as it sounds like what I'm going through. I hope it helps someone else.


----------



## Evinrude58

Glad you had the good judgement to get some pro advice


----------



## DownByTheRiver

m.t.t said:


> he apparently sees a psychologist, one of the alarming things that I found out later in the relationship was that he has had several psychologists stop seeing him, they let him go. He felt is was to do with his ex and that toxic slightly unbelievable story. He would also say that sometimes his current psychologist would give him double sessions back to back which I find also odd. But as far as a diagnosis goes he was only seeing them to get over his ex and then deal with our relationship issues etc. He said he didn't even have an anxiety diagnosis which I find odd
> 
> Both my psychologist and who I've talked to on the abuse helpline have all strongly suggested that he is dangerous and that he is most definitely personality disordered but with the disclaimer that he isn't their patient so they obviously cannot diagnose but warn me. BPD or one of the dark triads.


They probably quit him because he was probably not listening to them and convinced he's right all the time so they probably felt it was a waste of time.


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## Evinrude58

They probably quit him because he was scary as hell and they felt he was dangerous and he made them uncomfortable. Psychologist don’t mind taking one’s money.


----------



## m.t.t

He rang me from a private number this morning to say that he forgives me. It felt like I was a deer in headlights. I did say I don't appreciate being tricked into answering the phone. He said he just had to ring up to say he forgives me. So he can move forward and let go of us.

I said I'm too sure why he feels that he needs to forgive me as I haven't really done anything wrong but ok. He went on to say that I lied, told half-truths, but he forgives me. He said that I was never really monogamous or rather I had my own version of what that is. ( I was never not faithful to him, it's nuts) I said I thought we had closure but ok then I forgive you too but he didn't like that at all as he was the one that was hurt in this and he doesn't really have a quantity of who I really am. But he does miss me but is trying his best to move forward. He wanted to have everything ok between us for when we cross paths. I said it was unlikely that that would happen but he insisted that it will most likely happen, not sure what he was getting at we don't have mutual friends or live close to one another and I didn't want to take the bait and ask. But he was obviously hinting at something.

He went on to say to are you happy? You seem happy? I know things are progressing with someone else or something to that degree but I didn't answer (I'm not seeing someone) I was short but my heart was beating out my chest I ended up saying hope that helped all the best I have to go.

I'm upset that he has brought all of its back just as I was healing and moving forward.


----------



## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> He rang me from a private number this morning to say that he forgives me. It felt like I was a deer in headlights. I did say I don't appreciate being tricked into answering the phone. He said he just had to ring up to say he forgives me. So he can move forward and let go of us.
> 
> I said I'm too sure why he feels that he needs to forgive me as I haven't really done anything wrong but ok. He went on to say that I lied, told half-truths, but he forgives me. He said that I was never really monogamous or rather I had my own version of what that is. ( I was never not faithful to him, it's nuts) I said I thought we had closure but ok then I forgive you too but he didn't like that at all as he was the one that was hurt in this and he doesn't really have a quantity of who I really am. But he does miss me but is trying his best to move forward. He wanted to have everything ok between us for when we cross paths. I said it was unlikely that that would happen but he insisted that it will most likely happen, not sure what he was getting at we don't have mutual friends or live close to one another and I didn't want to take the bait and ask. But he was obviously hinting at something.
> 
> He went on to say to are you happy? You seem happy? I know things are progressing with someone else or something to that degree but I didn't answer (I'm not seeing someone) I was short but my heart was beating out my chest I ended up saying hope that helped all the best I have to go.
> 
> I'm upset that he has brought all of its back just as I was healing and moving forward.


Bloody hell. If he does this again - just tell him not to contact you and hang up. Do not engage. You owe him nothing and he is someone to be extremely careful of.

If he persists, look into what can be implemented legally if needed.

Big hugs, make yourself a cuppa, breathe.


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## Prodigal

m.t.t said:


> . He wanted to have everything ok between us for when we cross paths. I said it was unlikely that that would happen but he insisted that it will most likely happen, not sure what he was getting at we don't have mutual friends or live close to one another and I didn't want to take the bait and ask. But he was obviously hinting at something.


Yeah, he's "hinting" at something, and that something is stalking. I can't understand why you didn't just say you forgive him and then sign off. As long as you engage this madman (and I believe he is dangerously unstable), you're going to have him sniffing around. I mean, c'mon, he's calling you from a phone you don't recognize so you'll pick up? 

Who gives a royal fug if he "forgives" you or not? PLEASE quit engaging. Because, I assure you, he'll start popping up when you least expect it. And I'm pretty sure he'll call again. This person is mentally disturbed. Cut him out. Cut him off.

ETA: Change your phone number NOW.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> He wanted to have everything ok between us for when we cross paths.


If I were in your shoes, I'd be seeking support / advice as to what you can do if he persists or starts showing up places where you are. 

Be prepared, have a plan. He's not giving up.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> He rang me from a private number this morning to say that he forgives me. It felt like I was a deer in headlights. I did say I don't appreciate being tricked into answering the phone.


I'm back again because I am feeling more defensive / protective / riled up for you, the more I think about this.

If I remember correctly, you have grown children. Imagine for a second they're young, and you saw them being harassed. I imagine your reaction would be quite firm and protective for them, in how you might deal with who was doing the harassing, yeah? If I'm correct with that assumption, I think you need to pull that 'energy' out for yourself to deal with him in that way. Firm, assertive, and clear communication. No explaining how you feel. Just BAM ...tell him straight. Do NOT do this.. (or whatever). Short and sharp and no room for him to respond back. I know you weren't expecting this but it won't be the last time from him. Plus, get prepared for what you can do in terms of legalities or involving others if (or rather, when) he calls or 'runs into you' again.

He is giving you the heads-up that he is not going to just disappear. Armed with this knowledge, you can start preparing. But NOW - not at the point that he becomes a bigger problem. And do tell others close to you.


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## DownByTheRiver

You said a while back that he had several ways of contacting you. You are letting him contact you. You need to block him on everything where he can't see your social media, where he can't call and text you, where he can't call a private home line, where he can't send you an email. And then you need to stop answering the phone when you don't know who it is on the other end. The world will not come to an end if you miss a phone call from someone else who has no caller ID that you recognize. I don't ever answer my desk phone. I would rather he can't even leave you a message, but if he does leave you a message you just need to listen to the first two words and then delete it and then block the phone he called from. 

This guy is dangerous. It's specifically those guys who are insecure who end up murdering women that try to leave them and their children. 

A few weeks back you were saying how you have kept your daughter away from him. But way before that you said he doesn't want your daughter around anyway. So really you're just acquiescing to what he wanted. You need to block him and you need to maybe one time put in writing that you do not want him to contact you ever again and then keep a copy of that and then start keeping a log of every time he contacts you anyway or you see him in your vicinity. 

And once you have a log that shows he's continually disrespecting your wishes you may need to go get a restraining order. Once he violates the restraining order then the police are obligated to pick him up. I doubt it would help much but it does scare some guys and make them move on. 

He's a stalker at this point. All stalkers have a high potential for being dangerous. you need to get this one out of your life and quit communicating with him!


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## Openminded

He hasn’t forgiven you and he’s not going to ever give up reminding you that he feels wronged, He long ago crossed into scary stalker territory and now you need to take real precautions to protect yourself.


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## Openminded

And he’s giving you warning that you’ll definitely be crossing paths because he plans to hang around your area trying to make that happen. He obviously knows where you live. I don’t think you can be armed where you are — and he seems the type to ignore an AVO if you could even get one based on what he’s done so far — but you’re going to have to be really proactive because he’s made it clear he’s not going away.


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## 3Xnocharm

You should have hung up on him as soon as you realized who it was. I know it caught you off guard. You owe him nothing, stop engaging in any way. I believe you can file a cease and desist order against him so that he can’t even contact you through mail or email or phone. I have no doubt you are going to have to end up with a restraining order against him. You are way too nice a person and he’s feeding off that. I’m so sorry you are going through this. 

Change your phone number. Now. Never give him the satisfaction of a back and forth conversation with you again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DownByTheRiver

"People who can't say no attract people who can't let go."


----------



## m.t.t

I've wasted most of the day in a weird headspace. Yes, I should have hung up but I guess I just disappeared a little into myself. I went onto autopilot I guess. But I know that I was not that responsive and ended the conversation abruptly with I hope you have closure now when he started talking about I still have love in my heart for you etc.




DownByTheRiver said:


> You said a while back that he had several ways of contacting you. You are letting him contact you. You need to block him on everything where he can't see your social media, where he can't call and text you, where he can't call a private home line, where he can't send you an email. And then you need to stop answering the phone when you don't know who it is on the other end. The world will not come to an end if you miss a phone call from someone else who has no caller ID that you recognize. I don't ever answer my desk phone. I would rather he can't even leave you a message, but if he does leave you a message you just need to listen to the first two words and then delete it and then block the phone he called from.
> 
> This guy is dangerous. It's specifically those guys who are insecure who end up murdering women that try to leave them and their children.
> 
> A few weeks back you were saying how you have kept your daughter away from him. But way before that you said he doesn't want your daughter around anyway. So really you're just acquiescing to what he wanted. You need to block him and you need to maybe one time put in writing that you do not want him to contact you ever again and then keep a copy of that and then start keeping a log of every time he contacts you anyway or you see him in your vicinity.
> 
> And once you have a log that shows he's continually disrespecting your wishes you may need to go get a restraining order. Once he violates the restraining order then the police are obligated to pick him up. I doubt it would help much but it does scare some guys and make them move on.
> 
> He's a stalker at this point. All stalkers have a high potential for being dangerous. you need to get this one out of your life and quit communicating with him!


I run a business so I can't change my phone number as it's all over the internet and on business cards etc. I also have a very active business Instagram page which he is blocked on but it's easy for him to make another account to contact me. But I will not answer another blocked number again. But he must have been using another number because he is blocked. I think of sending him a please do not contact me again or I will be forced to take it further but

A, I don't want to try and contact him as I think is feeding into his need to have contact.
B, I don't want to antagonize him. My tactic has been to be nice and move on, grey rock kind of thing. I have an image of running into a bear in the forest (we don't have them) and just being boring so they move on.

I really appreciate you all reaching out to help me through this.


----------



## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> I'm back again because I am feeling more defensive / protective / riled up for you, the more I think about this.
> 
> If I remember correctly, you have grown children. Imagine for a second they're young, and you saw them being harassed. I imagine your reaction would be quite firm and protective for them, in how you might deal with who was doing the harassing, yeah? If I'm correct with that assumption, I think you need to pull that 'energy' out for yourself to deal with him in that way. Firm, assertive, and clear communication. No explaining how you feel. Just BAM ...tell him straight. Do NOT do this.. (or whatever). Short and sharp and no room for him to respond back. I know you weren't expecting this but it won't be the last time from him. Plus, get prepared for what you can do in terms of legalities or involving others if (or rather, when) he calls or 'runs into you' again.
> 
> He is giving you the heads-up that he is not going to just disappear. Armed with this knowledge, you can start preparing. But NOW - not at the point that he becomes a bigger problem. And do tell others close to you.


I know I would be different if this was about my children thank you for the care and reminder... I guess he has spent a lot of time telling me during the relationship that I'm a cold person that is a bit hard so I think I'm still trying extra hard to be seen as soft and kind 



3Xnocharm said:


> You should have hung up on him as soon as you realized who it was. I know it caught you off guard. You owe him nothing, stop engaging in any way. I believe you can file a cease and desist order against him so that he can’t even contact you through mail or email or phone. I have no doubt you are going to have to end up with a restraining order against him. You are way too nice a person and he’s feeding off that. I’m so sorry you are going through this.
> 
> Change your phone number. Now. Never give him the satisfaction of a back and forth conversation with you again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I want to do something like that but to be honest I'm a little bit scared of upsetting him. Thank you for your support 3Xnocharm


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## Openminded

Even if he were only a garden-variety user (which he isn’t — he’s much more than that) he would be bad enough. He sees your kindness as weakness, something he can exploit. Don’t be surprised one day when he turns up at your door. Always be prepared, in whatever form that might take.


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## m.t.t

Openminded said:


> Even if he were only a garden-variety user (which he isn’t — he’s much more than that) he would be bad enough. He sees your kindness as weakness, something he can exploit. Don’t be surprised one day when he turns up at your door. Always be prepared, in whatever form that might take.


I keep wondering about what I would do, thank you for reminding me that I should have a plan for this even as well. Though I think it's not likely that he would show up. More inclined to show up at an event I'm participating in and thanks to covid that won't happen for 8 months or so.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> I know I would be different if this was about my children thank you for the care and reminder... I guess he has spent a lot of time telling me during the relationship that I'm a cold person that is a bit hard so I think I'm still trying extra hard to be seen as soft and kind


EMBRACE cold and hard.


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## heartsbeating

(with this scenario, I mean... not life in general)


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## heartsbeating

Start planning and share with others that he's becoming a problem. 

And next time he gets in touch, think about us here at TAM if it helps. In a quick-second-flash, consider all of us who mentally want you to NOT engage with him. Imagine all of us standing right beside you in solidarity. And if you do 'imagine' us ...(based on avatars which I scrolled through on this thread) you have: Catwoman, a brain and heart in discussion, a few dogs, a few cats, a frog (I think), a beautiful tree, flowers, a stylishly dressed woman, a few fun sassy-looking women, random alphabet letters, AND a STOP SIGN.


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> (with this scenario, I mean... not life in general)


😂 


heartsbeating said:


> Start planning and share with others that he's becoming a problem.
> 
> And next time he gets in touch, think about us here at TAM if it helps. In a quick-second-flash, consider all of us who mentally want you to NOT engage with him. Imagine all of us standing right beside you in solidarity. And if you do 'imagine' us ...(based on avatars which I scrolled through on this thread) you have: Catwoman, a brain and heart in discussion, a few dogs, a few cats, a frog (I think), a beautiful tree, flowers, a stylishly dressed woman, a few fun sassy-looking women, random alphabet letters, AND a STOP SIGN.


Love this thought and imagery, thank you !


----------



## DownByTheRiver

m.t.t said:


> I've wasted most of the day in a weird headspace. Yes, I should have hung up but I guess I just disappeared a little into myself. I went onto autopilot I guess. But I know that I was not that responsive and ended the conversation abruptly with I hope you have closure now when he started talking about I still have love in my heart for you etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I run a business so I can't change my phone number as it's all over the internet and on business cards etc. I also have a very active business Instagram page which he is blocked on but it's easy for him to make another account to contact me. But I will not answer another blocked number again. But he must have been using another number because he is blocked. I think of sending him a please do not contact me again or I will be forced to take it further but
> 
> A, I don't want to try and contact him as I think is feeding into his need to have contact.
> B, I don't want to antagonize him. My tactic has been to be nice and move on, grey rock kind of thing. I have an image of running into a bear in the forest (we don't have them) and just being boring so they move on.
> 
> I really appreciate you all reaching out to help me through this.


any contact you allow from him only makes him think you are still in a relationship. Being nice and mild is exactly what will keep him hanging on. When he calls you at work block every number he calls from. Better yet, if you can have someone else answer your phone and screen your calls. if there is any kind of security in the building where you work you should provide them a photo of him and his name and tell them not to let him in or to at least alert you so you can lock your door.


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## DownByTheRiver

m.t.t said:


> I've wasted most of the day in a weird headspace. Yes, I should have hung up but I guess I just disappeared a little into myself. I went onto autopilot I guess. But I know that I was not that responsive and ended the conversation abruptly with I hope you have closure now when he started talking about I still have love in my heart for you etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I run a business so I can't change my phone number as it's all over the internet and on business cards etc. I also have a very active business Instagram page which he is blocked on but it's easy for him to make another account to contact me. But I will not answer another blocked number again. But he must have been using another number because he is blocked. I think of sending him a please do not contact me again or I will be forced to take it further but
> 
> A, I don't want to try and contact him as I think is feeding into his need to have contact.
> B, I don't want to antagonize him. My tactic has been to be nice and move on, grey rock kind of thing. I have an image of running into a bear in the forest (we don't have them) and just being boring so they move on.
> 
> I really appreciate you all reaching out to help me through this.


If you have not already read the article I wrote in the crime thread that is all about how you know if you have a stalker and what to do, you need to read it and understand what this is about. 









Talk About Marriage







www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## m.t.t

Hey all,

It's been mentioned to me before but I had dinner with a friend last night that told me that he has started using the medium (I'm a practicing professional artist) that I use and posting a lot of it on his Instagram. He was and still is a hobbyist. The thing that was pointed out to me is his sculptural work in my medium is basically imitating mine. I decided to actually look for myself and I felt sick. He is copying my forms even my techniques. It not that I'm worried that he is going to try and impersonate me and sell them etc but it's just really really odd and creepy. I wondered that maybe he doesn't realize but I posted a sculpture that was unique in form and there is his replica. He is clever with his hands. I'm just lucky that I have built a career out of my work and have a good following etc but if this was one of my contemporaries I would be starting to watch them like a hawk until I needed to get a copyright lawyer.

His sisters and friends (a friend or two are still following me have noticed) are all liking and commenting and they used to follow me so can't they see that his works are basically a rip-off of my own? What is going on with this?

I also noticed that he is doing drawings that have titled that are negative and directed I'm assuming at me like I fell for a lier once etc. This I don't care about so much but tells me that he hasn't moved on much. I get a decent amount of money for my work is he implying what I do isn't that hard or is he hoping I see it and get upset ?? I'm just more what the hell is he doing this for? I feel like it's just so weird and creepy. I guess I'm really upset by this. It seems psycho. I'm glad I looked but not really. By the way, By the way, he has me blocked on Instagram (he is also blocked on everything of mine as well. I can't block him from my website though as I don't know his ISP address.

Is this a form of stalking?


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## Evinrude58

So the psycho is copying your art?

He is definitely doing it to get your attention and hoping there will be a confrontation over it. Don’t bite.

you might consider packing a self defense device though. He’s a nut and his whole life seems to have you in laser focus. This guy sounds crazy enough to do bad things.


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## lucy999

m.t.t said:


> I wondered that maybe he doesn't realize but I posted a sculpture that was unique in form and there is his replica.


Of course he realizes it. He copied you on purpose. Even if he is blocked, he has shown how crafty he is circumventing all the security measures you've put in place. He has friends that can easily keep him updated and screenshot your stuff.

Gently, stop giving him the benefit of the doubt. He is no friend of yours. He is your enemy and he could cause serious harm to you. I literally loled when I read that he said he forgave you. I just . . . Wow.

I do think you should visit your local police station and talk to someone about stalking laws and make them aware of this guy. Maybe they can give you info on what is needed to get a restraining order from stalking against him. Lots of departments have a stalking division that might be helpful. I would start making my presence known to them.

Get some pepper spray. And are tazers sold to civilians? I know nothing about that. Brass knuckles are good, too. I realize those are old school devices. Personal protection devices have come a long way. Remember to always walk to your car with your keys intertwined between your fingers facing out like little knives. I don't think I'm being an alarmist when I also suggest looking into some basic self defense classes.

And I think you should practice the scenario where he calls you again from an unknown number and you immediately hang up--don't speak a word. Just hang up. I say practice because I do understand the deer in the headlights feeling and we do things by rote. Practice.

Or better yet, don't answer a number that's not listed in your contacts. Let's be honest--our security measures we've put in place are only good if we don't circumvent them ourselves. Don't answer unknown calls. I've always said, if someone who's not in my contacts wants to talk to me and I don't pick up, they will leave a message. If they don't leave a message, I have my answer then--I'm glad I didn't pick up.

I hate that you're still dealing with this freak.


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## m.t.t

lucy999 said:


> Of course he realizes it. He copied you on purpose. Even if he is blocked, he has shown how crafty he is circumventing all the security measures you've put in place. He has friends that can easily keep him updated and screenshot your stuff.
> 
> Gently, stop giving him the benefit of the doubt. He is no friend of yours. He is your enemy and he could cause serious harm to you. I literally loled when I read that he said he forgave you. I just . . . Wow.


I don't give him the benefit really, and he is far from being a friend of mine. I'm was more thinking that he is just nuts and not trying to deliberately copy to get to me. But now I see he is trying to get at me, it has upset me. I'm not going to say anything. to him though and I've asked my friend not to tell me again. I think it's best never to look again otherwise I will be like those people that are left stalking their exes social media account which he knows I'm not one of those people so maybe that's why he is doing it so I stay engaged and thinking about him. 

I have kept his messages to me as they really do show me his nature. I looked at them last night. He text me multiple times, things like

"just be honest with me, I need you to be honest are you talking to other men at night time when you are not talking to me? I would reply no I'm not,I don't know why you would think this, I was asleep etc. Or What other men? He would go on to text just so you know no other partner would find it acceptable talking to another man at night time and I would say There are no other men! 

This was a wash and repeat-style accusation. I'm either thinking now it was a projection or he is really insecure and unsable. Either way, his beliefs are why I think he is angry and calling me a liar. Trying to explain and reassure him was so exhausting and I really should have listened to you all on page 1. 

I thought that when two people realize a relationship doesn't work after a few months or so they just part ways and they say they wish you the best they actually move on and mean it. I' not perfect but I bent over backward trying to please him and reassure him. I had my boundaries of not moving in and not staying over here in the end but I had no one else and I gave him ALL of my free time even though I knew it was wrong. He still wanted more.

I'm feeling angry but trying to get back towards yawn!


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## Evinrude58

What I find bothersome is how you didn’t catch this yourself almost instantaneously.
Why do you think you found this clear psycho attractive? Did you like the attention he gave? Be careful you don’t let the next guy that gives you that cause you to get invested too soon.

I hope this rat goes in his hole and stays there.


----------



## m.t.t

Evinrude58 said:


> What I find bothersome is how you didn’t catch this yourself almost instantaneously.
> Why do you think you found this clear psycho attractive? Did you like the attention he gave? Be careful you don’t let the next guy that gives you that cause you to get invested too soon.
> 
> I hope this rat goes in his hole and stays there.


I think I explained it earlier, yes I found the love that he said he had for me compelling, that has been missing from me my whole life, not being loved that is. He also had a way of tapping into my compliance response. So even though my instincts were telling me to get out I kept being talked into staying. He was really good at manipulation. I'm overly responsible, he was really good at making me feel like I needed to do better. 

HE was NO catch what so ever. I realized that he was the type of person that wanted to join you in your life as he didn't have one of his own. That was uncomfortable but yet I found it hard to turn him down. He had this way of making you feel bad for him. I know I gave him a ton of extra chances and the benefit of the doubt because he was trans. They are hard done by and he played this card a lot.

He plays mind games, I hope he gets caught in the rat glue so he doesn't hurt others.


----------



## Blondilocks

m.t.t said:


> because he was trans


This guy used to be a woman?


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## m.t.t

I spoke to my psychologist yesterday, she feels that the copying makes him a very unstable unwell person, he has psychopathic behaviours. She is writing a letter of support and has strongly suggested that I make myself known to the local police. The thing is is is telling me to send him a clear text to say do not contact me again etc, but I don't really want to contact him at all as it tells him he has crossed my mind which is obviously what all this copying etc is about.

I wish he wasn't in my mind constantly. I'm ruminating, nothing positive really just my mind going over events and I can't seem to turn it off.


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## m.t.t

.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> I spoke to my psychologist yesterday, she feels that the copying makes him a very unstable unwell person, he has psychopathic behaviours. She is writing a letter of support and has strongly suggested that I make myself known to the local police. The thing is is is telling me to send him a clear text to say do not contact me again etc, but I don't really want to contact him at all as it tells him he has crossed my mind which is obviously what all this copying etc is about.
> 
> I wish he wasn't in my mind constantly. I'm ruminating, nothing positive really just my mind going over events and I can't seem to turn it off.


Your psychologist suggested you contact him to not contact you again, is that right? As well as she is writing a support letter and suggesting you contact police.

And you’re questioning the first part of this recommendation by her - if I’ve read that correctly?

Listen, I’m not one to just follow advice of ‘authority’ (aka psychologist in this case) without a bit of critcal thinking attached, HOWEVER, sometimes one needs to recognise the limitations of one’s own judgement and knowledge of how to navigate something.

In this case, if I were in your shoes, I’d recognise the seriousness at play and that therapist is trying to keep me safe. I’d then try to get out of my own way to help with that. Remembering also she told you to steer well clear before and you didn’t. Help her to help you.

In other words, I’d be following her advice.


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## heartsbeating

As a much lesser example, a person who used to be in my team contacted me after some time for a reference. I was happy to help. Provided a glowing reference, she got the job. Well deserved. She contacted me to thank me for that and was thrilled about the new job. Cool. Then texted me a few months in, asking for my time to talk through a scenario / issue with the new job. Again, I was happy to help and allocate time for her. She didn't have the support in the new team as she was used to in mine. The issue she raised was more of a process thing, and so I didn't get drawn into the emotion of it, and instead suggested a few steps in terms of process for her to navigate; including a suggestion of who she could escalate to (in terms of role) if needed. With the steps I suggested, was also what management would consider which would be in her best interest to follow to get the outcome she was after. A short time later, she left a voicemail for me and short text - she hadn't followed all the considerations that I had suggested and issue not yet resolved. The extent of my 'help' was not open-ended. I replied back that I couldn't help her anymore from here and wished her the best.

While your psychologist won't turn her back on you, if you're not putting into place the 'steps' of process, then you're not doing what you can to help yourself and could make her advice less valuable. In my example, it was free time and goodwill that I offered. In your case, the therapist is a paid professional with your best interests in mind. There's still 'steps' that have been 'strongly suggested' to help you navigate this. Whether you do or not, can determine your outcome.


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## lucy999

Among other things, I think your psychologist is telling you to tell him to never contact you again for legal reasons. Setting the legal stage so to speak. So there is no mistake that when he contacts you again, your complaint that he's stalking or harassing you has merit.

*You to police: He won't stop contacting me. I want him to stop. I think he's stalking me.

*Police: did you tell him to stop contacting you?

*You: no.

You don't have to even read his response. Does your daughter still live with you? Send the text, or have her send the text, then give her your phone to block him again before she gives your phone back. Or have a friend do it. Hell, have your psychologist do it.

He doesn't need a treatise. A simple don't ever contact me again will do. And don't respond. One and done.


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## m.t.t

Thank you for your detailed response @heartsbeating I read it and sent the text. I unblocked him so and I was surprised that I wasn't blocked on his end text-wise. It does seem strange for him you only had to upset him by not texting back for a few hours and you would be blocked and gives me the thought that he was in fact waiting to hear from me. 

Ok so now I feel yuck. I did read what he wrote as he replied so fast I hadn't blocked him yet. I said to him I'm making this clear for you please leave me alone and do not contact me again. He replied that he thought that he made it clear (when he rang my phone a private number I might add) that he never wanted to see me again as I'm a liar and a cheat and he wants nothing to do with me and he feels sorry for ****! He said the name of yet another person so I guess he is now accusing me of seeing them. This person likes all of my posts on Instagram at the moment but I'm not seeing them, they are a friend more an acquaintance really. It seems to get to me that he does this, I want to yell I'm not seeing anyone, I wasn't cheating on you and I'm still not seeing anyone!

I followed up with I will take action if I need to, leave me alone. He said that I'm crazy and he didn't know what I was talking about. I didn't respond and that was it.

I feel anxious and awful and I can't get it out of my head. That exchange just has my head and body reeling with anxiety and somehow guilt? It's like I want to go back and be nicer. I do know how sad and ridiculous this sounds.


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## heartsbeating

It doesn’t sound ridiculous - it IS ridiculous. Keep him blocked. My suggestion is to show your therapist and get her to talk through with you / help navigate this need for you to appear or be ‘nicer’ - especially with the last person who deserves it. There’s some lessons in there for you. 

Good job on sending the text. Maybe screen shot it. And that is that. I repeat for good measure and in upper case  ...

KEEP HIM FRICKN BLOCKED.


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## heartsbeating

Also, while I don’t want to give much more thought to him whatsoever for your sake - he’s already twisted things from when he was phoning to ‘forgive you’ to this message. He is messed up and you owe him nothing: not your tears, not your thoughts, not your anxiety, and certainly not your need for his approval.

You did what you needed to do.Well done. Feel good about that. It wasn’t easy for you and you did it.

Now bounce back to focus your mind on something good and nourishing for you. Your art, music, a bath, laugh with a friend.


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## lucy999

BRAVO!! Now make an urgent appt. with your therapist to get rid of the guilt feelings (I get that BTW).

And do not act on those feelings. Come here instead.


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## DownByTheRiver

Silence can't be good.


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## heartsbeating

DownByTheRiver said:


> Silence can't be good.


Or ...no news is good news!

She did have another thread that indicates some other focuses in her world at the moment. 

Maybe this person has gotten the message. GAWD...HOPEFULLY!!


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## m.t.t

DownByTheRiver said:


> Silence can't be good.





heartsbeating said:


> Or ...no news is good news!
> 
> She did have another thread that indicates some other focuses in her world at the moment.
> 
> Maybe this person has gotten the message. GAWD...HOPEFULLY!!


No, he has left me alone..... The relationship with him has helped me learn a lot about myself which is in one way good.... I realized that he is a bottom feeder. Maybe the wrong term but he looks for people that are useful to him. So I'm guessing he will have found someone else as it wasn't about love for him.

Things are difficult right now and @heartsbeating I wish my mother-in-law was still around. She has now flown out of state and I could really do with her company right about now.


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## DownByTheRiver

I am so relieved he is leaving you alone.


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## m.t.t

I'm feeling awful. I found out while I was on social media yesterday that one of his siblings has just passed away. He was super close to them and it was sudden. I found out through a tribute someone else wrote on their account not by his social media account.

I was so shocked to hear this and I didn't really think before I sent him an email showing him how I heard (link of the other persons acount and how sorry i was to hear the news. I'm guessing he may have blocked my email, he was forever blocking and unblocking so I don't really know if he has got the email. 

I'm feeling really sick about the whole thing. I had moved on and now I'm back thinking about him and wondering if he is ok. I have for the first time looked at his social media page, something I'm not proud about and it's left me feeling regretful and sad. 

I'm not sure what advise I'm after here but I'm now thinking that I wasn't a good person in the relationship and I wish that I was there for him. I know he was awful to me so what is going on? I'm now the one that has reached out. I told him to never contact me and now I have contacted him!


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## 3Xnocharm

I know you’re feeling bad because of his loss but he doesn’t deserve your time and empathy. You know you weren’t the bad person, this is just you feeling guilt because you are too good a person to not feel bad over this. 

My recent ex boyfriend’s mom just passed away in March. I unblocked him and sent a brief text extending condolences. After a few days of no response I reblocked the number. While I felt a bit bad for him, I felt my own loss of his mom more, she was a wonderful lady. He crapped on me too hard for me to have much more than a generic sympathy, sorry to say. Now I just found out that his dad had a heart attack this past Sunday and was supposed to be having surgery sometime this week. I loved his dad and I’m praying for him to recover. I didn’t reach out this time. His life is going to fall apart if he loses his dad and honestly my give a damn is gone. Almost 50 year old man still dependent on his parents. What the hell was I thinking! 

You are too good a person to waste any more of your energy and brain space on this person. Be kinder to yourself. In fact, extend yourself that kindness that you keep trying to give to him. He doesn’t deserve it but you do. 

Editing to add... if you haven’t already, block his email before he responds. Do that for yourself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m.t.t

3Xnocharm said:


> I know you’re feeling bad because of his loss but he doesn’t deserve your time and empathy. You know you weren’t the bad person, this is just you feeling guilt because you are too good a person to not feel bad over this.
> 
> My recent ex boyfriend’s mom just passed away in March. I unblocked him and sent a brief text extending condolences. After a few days of no response I reblocked the number. While I felt a bit bad for him, I felt my own loss of his mom more, she was a wonderful lady. He crapped on me too hard for me to have much more than a generic sympathy, sorry to say. Now I just found out that his dad had a heart attack this past Sunday and was supposed to be having surgery sometime this week. I loved his dad and I’m praying for him to recover. I didn’t reach out this time. His life is going to fall apart if he loses his dad and honestly my give a damn is gone. Almost 50 year old man still dependent on his parents. What the hell was I thinking!
> 
> You are too good a person to waste any more of your energy and brain space on this person. Be kinder to yourself. In fact, extend yourself that kindness that you keep trying to give to him. He doesn’t deserve it but you do.
> 
> Editing to add... if you haven’t already, block his email before he responds. Do that for yourself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks you so much 3X i really needed to hear this, I was really distressed yesterday. Your story really helped... The what was I thinking resonates with me as well, I kept thinking what am I doing with this man? But I did appreciate what I learnt by being with him.

I realized his siblings death brought up grief over others friends passing recently and i was also the suddenness of it. I also felt bad as when I looked at his socal media I saw how prolific he has been in what was my creative medium of choice and I felt inferior as I'm hardly working at the moment due to other things that are happening in my life. I feel really dark about it all to be honest.

He didn't reply, so he either has blocked my email or he choosing not to which is more of a relief I think as I couldn't bear to get back into anything with him even a conversation as getting away was for me so bloody hard. It is very possible that he hasn't given me a second thought after I sent the text to leave me alone few months ago which makes me feel even more ridiculous that he pops into my head ever now and again. Sigh.


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## 3Xnocharm

I’m glad to hear that my message helped a bit and also that he didn’t respond. So block and move forward. 

I can say that I am so happy to have my ex out of my life now. He was a colossal waste of my time and I have a lot of regret that I let it go on for so long. I gave up my last young years and it was all for nothing. I may never have another relationship again and that thought makes me sad. But I know what I’m looking for now and I won’t be making the same mistakes going forward. I’m determined! I’m enjoying my freedom to do what I want so it’s all me until someone worth it comes along! 

Hugs to you, keep your head up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m.t.t

3Xnocharm said:


> I’m glad to hear that my message helped a bit and also that he didn’t respond. So block and move forward.
> 
> I can say that I am so happy to have my ex out of my life now. He was a colossal waste of my time and I have a lot of regret that I let it go on for so long. I gave up my last young years and it was all for nothing. I may never have another relationship again and that thought makes me sad. But I know what I’m looking for now and I won’t be making the sales mistakes going forward. I’m determined! I’m enjoying my freedom to do what I want so it’s all me until someone worth it comes along!
> 
> Hugs to you, keep your head up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


sending hugs back !

I'm taking 12 months off of any romantic connections or looking, I will even and have turned down interest as I really need time to process not just this relationship but my past ones as well. I love being single.

3x I know the feeling of wasted time I had that feeling with my ex husband. I see a lot of him at the moment as our daughter is really unwell. Seeing him multiple times a week has been great in that I can see how far I have come as well as how grateful I am no longer with him. Your person will be worth waiting for.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> Thanks you so much 3X i really needed to hear this, I was really distressed yesterday. Your story really helped... The what was I thinking resonates with me as well, I kept thinking what am I doing with this man? But I did appreciate what I learnt by being with him.
> 
> I realized his siblings death brought up grief over others friends passing recently and i was also the suddenness of it. I also felt bad as when I looked at his socal media I saw how prolific he has been in what was my creative medium of choice and I felt inferior as I'm hardly working at the moment due to other things that are happening in my life. I feel really dark about it all to be honest.
> 
> He didn't reply, so he either has blocked my email or he choosing not to which is more of a relief I think as I couldn't bear to get back into anything with him even a conversation as getting away was for me so bloody hard. It is very possible that he hasn't given me a second thought after I sent the text to leave me alone few months ago which makes me feel even more ridiculous that he pops into my head ever now and again. Sigh.


Heya, did you follow @Prodigal's advice and block his email regardless so that he couldn't respond?

She is absolutely correct about extending that kindness to yourself. Keep yourself in focus.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> I'm not sure what advise I'm after here but I'm now thinking that I wasn't a good person in the relationship and I wish that I was there for him. I know he was awful to me so what is going on? I'm now the one that has reached out. I told him to never contact me and now I have contacted him!


Are you still going to counseling? And if so, do you raise these things with her?

Give your daughter a big hug. Phone your MIL and tell her how much you appreciated her support when she was with you.

...I'm being bossy  intended from a good place though!


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## Evinrude58

I am praying you never have contact with this guy again, and that someone special comes into your life that treats you well.


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## m.t.t

Evinrude58 said:


> I am praying you never have contact with this guy again, and that someone special comes into your life that treats you well.
> 
> Maybe one day... thank you !


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> Heya, did you follow @Prodigal's advice and block his email regardless so that he couldn't respond?
> 
> She is absolutely correct about extending that kindness to yourself. Keep yourself in focus.


No I don't seem to be a blocker, I can ignore a message forever but I can't block people. I guess I like to know what is going on. So even though I did initially block him I unblocked as I just prefer to know what going on. I had also assumed he blocked mine and might not have gotten the message. I ended up getting it quoted back to me via a text message 6 days later with a simple thank you in response. Somehow that was all I needed and I emotionally moved on from worry about it and if he was ok.


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> Are you still going to counseling? And if so, do you raise these things with her?
> 
> Give your daughter a big hug. Phone your MIL and tell her how much you appreciated her support when she was with you.
> 
> ...I'm being bossy  intended from a good place though!


MIL is back staying with me. Not as stressful this time as I'm more open to saying what I need from her. She goes home tomorrow. Her stays are shorter and we agree on a time frame. My daughter is very ill with anorexia. She became critical (medically unstable) when MIL was last down and I think the stress of all the hospital stuff just made me less able to cope with her personality.


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## m.t.t

I think maybe I'm not a blocker as I have learnt to know what you are dealing with at all times. It's like a safety thing for me. I have had other situations where one might have blocked but I tend to just mute and ignore. 

The police here also told me that if you are being harassed then you need those messages as proof of harassment so don't delete messages or block those that are posing harassing issues. You need the prof and dates. 

I'm thinking it over.


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## m.t.t

Ok, I have to write this here, I really don't know what is wrong with me. I have been thinking about him a lot and I can't seem to get him out of my head atm and I really don't really get it. Is it because I'm not seeing anyone and I don't want to? I'm trying to rationalize and think back to how much I wanted out of the relationship, the relief I felt when it was over, and the confusion as to why I kept sliding back in with him. But I just want him. It's not rational. Is it my ego because he is no longer trying to contact me? Have I forgotten about it all?

I'm really wanting to connect to him and have a coffee. Why is this haunting me? I feel like maybe I need to get more of something to black it out. I'm back to thinking maybe I was just not warm enough and kind enough. I have realized that I have an avoidant attachment and he is insecure so maybe I could have made him feel more secure, but that doesn't take away my lost attraction to him. I'm lost in this sadness that I could have brought him in more. I think I'm faulty and I'm not great at being in a relationship when someone wants to be very close to me.

He tried to reach out to me many times after it was over and I just ignored his texts but now all I want is to hear from him and have a coffee. I know you are going to think I'm nuts but I'm struggling and I don't know why after I felt elated for it to be over.


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## Hopeful Cynic

m.t.t said:


> Ok, I have to write, I don't know what is wrong with me. I have been thinking about him and I really don't really get it. Is it because I'm not seeing anyone and I don't want to? I'm trying to rationalize and think back to how much I wanted out of the relationship, the relief I felt when it was over, and the confusion as to why I kept sliding back in with him. But I just want him. It's not rational. Is it my ego because he is no longer trying to contact me? Have I forgotten about it all?
> 
> I'm really wanting to connect to him and have a coffee. Why is this haunting me? I feel like maybe I need to get more of something to black it out. I'm back to thinking maybe I was just not warm enough and kind enough. I have realized that I have an avoidant attachment and he is insecure so maybe I could have made him feel more secure, but that doesn't take away my lost attraction to him. I'm lost in this sadness that I could have brought him in more. I think I'm faulty and I'm not great at being in a relationship when someone wants to be very close to me.
> 
> He tried to reach out to me many times after it was over and I just ignored his texts but now all I want is to hear from him and have a coffee. I know you are going to think I'm nuts but I'm struggling and I don't know why after I felt elated for it to be over.


I suspect you are remembering the parts of him that appeared to be good, and you want that again. You don't want him specifically, but you want the good parts that he was providing back at the beginning, the feeling of being with someone who really 'got' you. Your brain eventually figured out that he 'got' you as a tactic but wasn't a genuine person, but the heart still wants to be 'gotten.'

Just keep working on the lessons you learned about being selective. I'm not seeing any fault in you here. Just a normal, caring person, working on getting over realizing that they had been taken in by a charming sham. It's hard to let go of the dream sometimes.


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## Evinrude58

Please don’t let your emotions get you killed. You’d have a very difficult time selecting anyone with the level of psychological problems and is as dangerous as this guy is.
And, if you are heterosexual and want a man, it would also be beneficial to choose one with the right physical equipment. Just sayin’.......


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## 3Xnocharm

Whenever you start feeling this way, look at it.. acknowledge it... then remind yourself that this person is dangerous. That trumps EVERYTHING ELSE. Please reach out to your therapist. You are a kind, loving person and you deserve so much better than what you find yourself pining for. Your safety is number one, not just because you’re you, but because you are a mom and that means you are someone else’s whole world. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> Ok, I have to write this here, I really don't know what is wrong with me. I have been thinking about him a lot and I can't seem to get him out of my head atm and I really don't really get it. Is it because I'm not seeing anyone and I don't want to? I'm trying to rationalize and think back to how much I wanted out of the relationship, the relief I felt when it was over, and the confusion as to why I kept sliding back in with him. But I just want him. It's not rational. Is it my ego because he is no longer trying to contact me? Have I forgotten about it all?
> 
> I'm really wanting to connect to him and have a coffee. Why is this haunting me? I feel like maybe I need to get more of something to black it out. I'm back to thinking maybe I was just not warm enough and kind enough. I have realized that I have an avoidant attachment and he is insecure so maybe I could have made him feel more secure, but that doesn't take away my lost attraction to him. I'm lost in this sadness that I could have brought him in more. I think I'm faulty and I'm not great at being in a relationship when someone wants to be very close to me.
> 
> He tried to reach out to me many times after it was over and I just ignored his texts but now all I want is to hear from him and have a coffee. I know you are going to think I'm nuts but I'm struggling and I don't know why after I felt elated for it to be over.


Below are just some of your own words reflected back. 
Please keep raising how you are feeling with your therapist to help you to navigate. 
Despite yourself - you owe it to yourself (and your family) to be emotionally, mentally, and physically safe.



m.t.t said:


> I was talking to a helpline for domestic violence . . . Learning about fawning allowed me to understand what the hell was going on with me. Sadly I got why battered and abused women stay.
> 
> . . . He was the most manipulative, mentally abusive, controlling crazy-making person I have ever met.





m.t.t said:


> He also had a way of tapping into my compliance response. So even though my instincts were telling me to get out I kept being talked into staying. He was really good at manipulation.
> 
> . . . HE was NO catch what so ever. . . He plays mind games, I hope he gets caught in the rat glue so he doesn't hurt others.





m.t.t said:


> I spoke to my psychologist yesterday . . .he has psychopathic behaviours.


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> Below are just some of your own words reflected back.
> Please keep raising how you are feeling with your therapist to help you to navigate.
> Despite yourself - you owe it to yourself (and your family) to be emotionally, mentally, and physically safe.


Thank YOU ! 

I think I need to see her more often. I spoke to 1800 respect last night and that was helpful too. I guess I feel really good about taking the year off any type of relationship and dating. I'm feeling really good and sorting myself out. The tricky bit is that I feel I could be there for him as a friend. I have a need to be there for men that are sad. I want to help and support them. Unconditionally be there for them. I'm not really sure what that's about but I'm going to have to dive into it and sort it out. I can't get caught up by some like like him again.

I feel good about not looking at dating and just spending time with friends, some of who I have dated, and how we talk is in stark contrast to how he talked to me. I get it, but I'm dangerously drawn to him.


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## 3Xnocharm

It’s hard when you’ve been a “fixer” your whole life to turn it off. Trust me, I know. I was very proud of myself for not trying to support and fix a man I had started a friendship with back in the fall. He had some real issues, and that automatically triggers my fixit senses. But I talked myself out of following my normal script. I ended up ending the friendship after a few months, he didn’t add anything real to my life and I got sick of hearing all his issues on repeat. I can’t fix him or anyone else. I can’t get into a romantic relationship with someone who needs fixing. Most of them don’t want to be any better and bring nothing to the table anyway. You don’t need him as a friend and he doesn’t need you to be his friend. He’s horrible. Let him be his horrible self living his horrible existence without having you there to abuse. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m.t.t

3Xnocharm said:


> It’s hard when you’ve been a “fixer” your whole life to turn it off. Trust me, I know. I was very proud of myself for not trying to support and fix a man I had started a friendship with back in the fall. He had some real issues, and that automatically triggers my fixit senses. But I talked myself out of following my normal script. I ended up ending the friendship after a few months, he didn’t add anything real to my life and I got sick of hearing all his issues on repeat. I can’t fix him or anyone else. I can’t get into a romantic relationship with someone who needs fixing. Most of them don’t want to be any better and bring nothing to the table anyway. You don’t need him as a friend and he doesn’t need you to be his friend. He’s horrible. Let him be his horrible self living his horrible existence without having you there to abuse.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I missed your message 3Xnocharm, I'm proud of you too for going no and seeing that he didn't bring anything of value to the relationship. I know I would find that hard to recognize.

I came back to read this thread as I'm really struggling today. I was out to dinner with a friend last night and they told me that he is buying work off off one of my colleges. He posted it on his social media page. I have an awful feeling that he is getting more invloved in my community of work connections, the ones close to me. I have been triggered into thinking and talking about him again. Then thinking that maybe I could have made the relationship work and that I could have been kinder, more romantic. Even made me feel like reaching out. I wont but the urge is there.

I had a quick look stupidly at his social media page, I don't as a rule ever look at it page and his work is looking good. It's left me feeling lonely and ridiculous and way less gifted in my own creative field. I don't really like his work but he is really prolific and I feel a bit sh__ .


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## lucy999

Okay, so you should tell your friends that they are not to discuss him with you. Period. You've GOT to erect those boundaries! And if they are real friends, they will respect your boundaries. If they continue, they're not your friends and you need to break up with them. And honestly, even if you didn't ask them not to discuss him, that's really ****ty of them to do so. Do they know what he's done to you?

And, dude is a straight up psychopath. You know it, we all know it. And quit comparing your talent to his. I'd rather be less talented and be sane than be him, ten ways from Sunday. 

I know you're in your feels right now (I read your other post). Get out of your head and get moving. Something other than this. You can totally get this monkey off your back, just keep it moving.


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## heartsbeating

m.t.t said:


> I missed your message 3Xnocharm, I'm proud of you too for going no and seeing that he didn't bring anything of value to the relationship. I know I would find that hard to recognize.
> 
> I came back to read this thread as I'm really struggling today.


What did you gain with rereading this thread?


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> What did you gain with rereading this thread?


I've read parts of it and I'm really grateful have to have documented this relationship from the start. Reading back he started to unravel me from the start before meeting. Even thinking back before I wrote here and the persistent asking for my phone number after saying not until we meet was pushed and pushed. He pushed my boundaries from the first few text messages. I don't think he was just after sex as some members felt, but you and many others really saw him clearly. He wanted to own posses and control me. The sex questions were just another boundary push that he used to test me I believe. 

So reading back helped me to stop thinking about wanting to each out. I found out with his gas lighting me where everything was wrong with me and I was the cause that I'm left with feelings of guilt and that I could have been a better girlfriend. Reading this helps me remember those feelings that I had when I was with him and I could never do the right thing or be the right way. It reminds me of the times where he ripped into me so I was left stunned and in tears to then try harder to do what he expected of me, and I was then met with kisses and I love you repeated to me over and over and over again. It was traumatizing and does make me wonder if he is just playing out his own traumas with me. Either way, I know he will be history one day but boy do I wish that I listened to you all before I met him. I still feel messed up over it.


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## 3Xnocharm

Then it’s a very good thing you have this thread to reference. Your spidey senses were tingling from the beginning, so now you know to listen to yourself if that ever happens again. You can do this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating

Tell the thoughts that get some kind of high from dwelling on drama to eff off. No place or need for it. Plant yourself firmly in your current reality.

Focus on your daughter, yourself, and your MIL


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## m.t.t

heartsbeating said:


> Tell the thoughts that get some kind of high from dwelling on drama to eff off. No place or need for it. Plant yourself firmly in your current reality.
> 
> Focus on your daughter, yourself, and your MIL


good advice... my brain does tend to want to ruminate over things. I think it's anxiety related ?

I guess I was just feeling physically lonely and as he was my last person to kiss or to be physically close to my thoughts have turned back to him and got stuck on a few good things.


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