# Old love returns while in a bad marriage



## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

I've been married for 8 years, we have two young children. We have a very toxic marriage. We fight a lot and there has been times where DH will hit or push me. I have been feeling depressed and stuck for so long. We have tried counseling several times. Seemed to work temporarily in the past. Now it doesnt. DH doesnt see his faults and doesnt consider himself abusive. He is reluctant to "try" anymore to make things better because he says to me its useless. Yet, he stays in this marriage. He is a very loyal person and he feels he must stay for the kids - I dont think he would ever cheat either even though he admits he is unhappy.

I am also extremely unhappy and I worry more about how my kids are dealing with our fighting WAY more than DH worries about it. I think its damaging for them and he thinks it would be more damaging if we split up.

I never ever believed in infidelity either. But now someone from my past has come into my life again. Yes, via Facebook of course. We were young and in love at 17 (20 years ago now) but my strict parents forbid me to keep seeing him after they read my diary (we had sex). So he enlisted in the military and we tried to write a few times but my parents threw those letters away too. Eventually we moved on but heartbroken. Now we are talking again. He lives on the west coast and I live on the east coast. He is separated, no kids. We have been talking or texting every day for a month now. DH doesnt have any idea. We are so in sync and are still so crazy about each other. I am very tempted to board a plane and see him. Its been 20 years. I think I could get away with it without DH knowing. This man does come to my state every few months because of his family here but next time for him is Thanksgiving because he is a full time student (and that is a long time to wait). I want to leave my husband but not sure how to do it. But in the meantime I am secretely having a relationship with this other man and feel bad and not sure If I should risk seeing him. Any thoughts?


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## Want2babettrme (May 17, 2013)

Since there is physical abuse happening you need to get yourself and your kids out. You and the kids are in danger and it will get worse without changes. If you don't think you can do this on your own, contact a local women's shelter for help.

As far as the OM goes, you have far too much happening in your life to be pursuing this fantasy. And it is a fantasy which is exciting and distracts you from the painful reality of your marriage. 

What happens when your violent husband finds out about your affair? Someone's going to get hurt or end up in jail. 

Tell your OM you can't talk to him any more. End your marriage and spend some time getting yourself better before you start looking for a new relationship.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Don't do it. Leave your husband if you must, but do that before meeting with this old flame. Keep your integrity and honor intact. 

Speaking as someone who had an exit affair... Don't make my mistake. The end result may be the same, but do it with integrity. As well, if the affair becomes known, the odds of an amicable separation/divorce are nil. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

You know, there is something to say about first loves. *sigh* I remember mine fondly. But sitting next to him on the bus ride to school and holding his hand is very different from sitting next to him on the couch scratching himself. However, I am not going to dismiss the feelings you believe you have for your childhood boyfriend. And I'm sure those feelings are intensified by the fact your marriage is not a happy or healthy one. Distractions are addicting. 

But here's the thing. I think seeing him at Thanksgiving would be too soon. If you two are "meant to be" then he will wait for you. 

> He will wait for you to separate from your husband. Just because you say your husband won't leave the marriage doesn't mean you don't have a choice in the matter. 

> He will wait for you to stand on your own two feet and be emotionally and financially independent 

> He will wait for your children to come to terms with the fact that mommy and daddy are no longer together. You must protect their feelings. 

> He will wait for your divorce to be finalized. Or, at the very very least, close to being final. 

Only when the above is accomplished then there is no reason why you can't pursue a relationship with him. 

I know that you are going to "follow your heart" regardless of the advice given to you on this board. And I get that, I really do. But please, please try and do what is in the best interests of your children. Introducing another man into their lives may backfire. You can't cultivate a healthy relationship with someone new if the foundation it is built on is unheathy. 

In the meantime, start putting together an exit strategy if leaving this marriage is what you really believe is the right thing to do. And based on what you said, it's time to run like the wind! 

Good luck to you.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

If you want to stay in your marriage, then you need to commit to it. If you want to screw other men, then you need to divorce your husband.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Thanks, this is great advice. Your right, he would wait. The feelings are intensified by all the talking we have been doing and getting to know one each other all over again. Aside from texting, we have spent hours on the phone too. And yes, of course it helps that Im not happy in my marriage; but I need to get out and now I feel some motivation finally. Me and this other man seem to still be very connected and I cant ignore that. So with that said, I dont know if I can keep myself from seeing him over thanksgiving week since he will be in town. Would it really be THAT bad if I did?



IrishGirlVA said:


> You know, there is something to say about first loves. *sigh* I remember mine fondly. But sitting next to him on the bus ride to school and holding his hand is very different from sitting next to him on the couch scratching himself. However, I am not going to dismiss the feelings you believe you have for your childhood boyfriend. And I'm sure those feelings are intensified by the fact your marriage is not a happy or healthy one. Distractions are addicting.
> 
> But here's the thing. I think seeing him at Thanksgiving would be too soon. If you two are "meant to be" then he will wait for you.
> 
> ...


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

You are already having an affair. An emotional affair. In your mind, you have already been in bed with him, haven't you?

So your marriage is, far all intents and purposes, on life support at best. 

Do the right thing. Tell Mr Smiles he needs to back down a bit, and tell Mr PAGirl you want a divorce. Take the advice given above about getting your life together. Things may work out with Mr Smiles, and they may not, Be prepared for it either way. Don't lose your identity in this fantasy. You are BOTh living out the fantasy that something great may have happened. But you went on, fell in love (for a while at least) and got married, etc etc. 

Stop living the dual life. You may get with Mr Smiles after your divorce, but please, keep your integrity intact, and don't let this go any further until you are legally and morally free to do so. You want to be able to hold your head up in the world; that's how to do it. Don't let your gonads and fantasies rule your life.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My friend went down this path. I'm not sure how far she took things with her blast from the past before her divorce because she knew my stance on cheating. All I know is a month after she filed for divorce she was dating him. A year after the D was final she married him. They dated for 2 years total before marriage.

He's unemployed and they can barely pay the electric bill. I wonder sometimes if it was worth it just so she didn't have to be alone.


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## MissFroggie (Sep 3, 2013)

You are a damsel in distress and your knight in shining armour is ready to rescue you! Or so it seems right now....

Your relationship is abusive and there is no question that you should get out before it escalates and you become another statistic. Get you and your kids out. Get help to leave, have a clear plan, have support and do it!

This old flame might be ideal for you or he might be a fantasy because you are in a bad situation right now. If he is ideal for you, don't start out with a messy relationship by taking things further than they have already gone - you want him to trust you later, don't you? Also, you need to be safe and secure and not feel like you NEED him before you get involved, when the time is right be with him because you CHOOSE to be, not because you need help.

When we are in abusive situations we are unable to make clear decisions because we are looking to survive and not thinking about what we need long term. We make irrational and poor decisions when we are afraid and in need. Get out, get strong and then decide about relationships and your future. Knights in shining armour don't exist, but that's okay because you don't need to be the damsel in distress either xx


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sigh.....Facebook strikes again....


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

I am taking your advice seriously. I plan on divorcing... and not because of this guy, because of my kids and me. I have even scheduled an appointment with a therapist for myself. I wont go and visit him because obviously if I completely disagreed with all of you, I wouldn't have written on this board. I had a nagging feeling it wasn't a great idea. I just WANT to though! However, is it so wrong to continue talking to him? Yes it is an emotional affair, but it is what it is. Its not like Im in a great and wonderful marriage and am risking throwing it away.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

The old flame and the divorce have NOTHING to do with each other.

If you're getting divorced, DO IT. Do it for the RIGHT reasons for yourself and your kids.

Ex-bf may be the love of your life, but it's WAY TOO EARLY to tell.
1.) He is willing to text, talk, carry-on with a MARRIED woman. That does NOT speak well of him (or you, to be honest). If he doesn't have clear boundaries about such things and YOUR marriage/family is not considered off-limits by him...what makes you think he'd see a distinction when YOU'RE MRS. Oldflame and he meets someone else he used to know. Get the picture?

I know, I know, we ALL like to think we're 'special' and we're 'different' and we're not like all the other women/men in his/her life....but it just ain't so!

2.)COMPLETELY call it off with ex-bf. Do NOT see him over Thanksgiving (you should be looking at how your kids will be handling a holiday without dad in the picture). Do not see him/text him/call him until AFTER the divorce has been filed.

3.) Spend your time and energy on YOURSELF and your children.

4.) As a parent, take a good hard look at what it was YOUR parents disliked about your relationship with OldFlame. As a parent, you KNOW we sometimes see more than our kids do, have more experience, can predict how things will end. Try to be a parent NOW and figure out what it was that was not good about your relationship.

5.) Take it slowly! You can always speed things up LATER ON if things are going well, but it's hard to slow things down.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

An old GF from my Ws past surfaced and now an affair. They re-connected in March and now we are headed for divorce. 

I hope my WS thinks she is worth it after all is said and done.


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## Moulin (Jul 30, 2013)

Of course it's all sunshine and rainbows with the FB guy. He doesn't see you when you first wake up in the morning or grumpy from PMS and you don't have to wash his dirty underwear. 

Stop communicating with FB guy, work on the marriage. If you can't save the marriage, divorce but don't become a cheater. You can't regain lost integrity.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Before you go hooking up over Thanksgiving or any other time with your first love, I suggest you have an exit plan/strategy in place. Your husband has physically abused you. If you announce you want a divorce, it may trigger him to hit you.

Line up a place to go; specifically, a women's shelter. Have some money and a change of clothes for you and the kids stashed somewhere.

Right now, it would be wise for you to set aside the high you are getting off of reconnecting with an old flame. Those feelings are possibly interfering with you really understanding the seriousness of your situation.

Romance/lust/love can make us feel like we can conquer mountains and slay dragons. This will not be the case if your husband's hand comes in contact with your body. And I don't mean a loving touch. He has proven he is an abuser.

Focus on getting to a safe place first. The advantage of a women's shelter is the people there can hook you up with legal services so you can file for divorce. They also take the safety of you and your children seriously.

As should you.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

the grass isn't always greener.

and I would bet most times after you really get to know him again it won't be nearly as good as you though it would be.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Little story for you PA. I used to date a girl a long, long time ago back in the mid 60's. Lost contact with her for 41 years and bingo, got an email from someone that was asking if I was the same 6301 from a state back east. I replied back "who are you" and got a reply from this person who was friends with my old girlfriend form back in the 60's. I was given my old GF's email address and we made contact. One thing lead to another and I made a trip back east and visited. It was a nice visit. Went back to California and we continued to talk. she wanted me to move in with her. I told her that 41 years had passed and we aren't teenagers any more and we both have changed.

Anyhow, she convinces me and I made the move. After the first month I knew this was wrong. I saw all the faults she had that drove me up the wall when we were teenagers and why we broke up. Now I don't walk on water either and I had been single for 18 years before I moved back with her so I was set in my ways. The long and the short of it is people change over the years and after 9 months with her, I came back to her house with a bunch of boxes and was out of there the same weekend. Our kids, hers and mine were grown, you still have yours. That's asking a lot from this old boyfriend. Real good chance it won't work. Your already in a lousy situation. Divorce and give your children the stability and a peaceful home life. They are number one. In time a nice guy may come around and then you can date him. One thing at a time.


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## Thepoet (Sep 8, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> 1.) He is willing to text, talk, carry-on with a MARRIED woman. That does NOT speak well of him (or you, to be honest). If he doesn't have clear boundaries about such things and YOUR marriage/family is not considered off-limits by him...what makes you think he'd see a distinction when YOU'RE MRS. Oldflame and he meets someone else he used to know. Get the picture?
> 
> I know, I know, we ALL like to think we're 'special' and we're 'different' and we're not like all the other women/men in his/her life....but it just ain't so!


I have to agree, a man that would pursue a woman that is already in a relationship is not a real man. He's the lowest form of scum.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

The other thing to think about PAgirl is this.

If your EA partner and you work out, it probably will not matter, but if you dont then you will be a cheater looking for the love of your life.

Here is a thread of a woman that cheated on her husband near the end of a bad marriage, now she is wondering how to tell the next Mr Soulmate, that she cheated.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...8-when-tell-potential-dates-about-affair.html

This could be you, if you dont mind then nevermind, but if you think it might matter someday then think twice.

Unless you want the PA in PAgirl to stand for Physical Affair or you plan on hiding it and taking it to the grave.

Take care!


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

PAGirl... Don't do it. It isn't worth it. You have enough to deal with, and going to see your EAP will just exacerbate the current issues. 

If your H has already been abusive, this could surely send him over the edge. Do what you need to to leave, but do that first. If when you are less vulnerable you want to pursue things with the man from your past, do it then... But not before. 

You have to be able to look you children in the face, and you don't want to add to their pain any more than the dismantling of their family will bring. An affair will do just that.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

I wonder just how bad her boogeyman husband really is, in real life, and how much of it is just her rewriting history....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

As the others have said,bc this thread has a lot of great advice,work on your situation first.If the old flame really wants to give it a try he is capable of waiting for you to get your train wreck of a life back on track.

While I agree the grass isn't always greener,once you're on your feet and have your head on straight,there is nothing wrong with casually dating the man.But we're talking way,way,way in the future.

After my divorce I became more active in social media and ended up friending/getting friended by a guy I've known since I was a kid. We emailed a bunch then met for coffee.

A few years went by and we're extremely happy.

We're getting married on 9/30/13.

BUT I had my sh*t together well before we even started talking.I think that's the key.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> I wonder just how bad her boogeyman husband really is, in real life, and how much of it is just her rewriting history....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What does this mean??? :scratchhead:

Are you suggesting Im lying? Why would I make something up on a message board?!

I just want some third party advice. Who are you to accuse me of making up stories here?!

My husband has hit me and pushed me down onto the ground MANY times and I have gotten bruises...and he does not feel remorse any more for it. He used to years ago, say he was sorry. But in the last two years, it happens much more often and he says that I deserve it because I would call him a f*ckn loser or whatever. But this is in the middle of an argument. He does not just walk away like he should. That would end the argument. Instead he raises his fist and sometimes he strikes. Its usually after a very heated argument. I have been DEEPLY depressed and felt stuck because of the house and kids that we share for YEARS. It just so happens that me and this other man reconnected. I was already wanting to get out of my marriage but didnt have the confidence to do it.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Just to add... I told him last night Im not going to visit him.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

PAgirl said:


> What does this mean??? :scratchhead:
> 
> Are you suggesting Im lying? Why would I make something up on a message board?!
> 
> ...


Physical violence is not ok. It also sounds like you could do some improving on name calling and emotional abuse.Everyone has something they need to work on and while I do feel you need to get away from this man,I also feel you have a lot of work to do on your own behaviors and habits.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Physical violence is not ok. It also sounds like you could do some improving on name calling and emotional abuse.Everyone has something they need to work on and while I do feel you need to get away from this man,I also feel you have a lot of work to do on your own behaviors and habits.


True. Not denying that. I have started weekly therapy. Yes, my dad did this to me too growing up. Im not saying I dont have faults either. I still dont see any harm with continuing a friendship with this man when he lives 3,000 miles away. But I agree you should be mentally healthy before getting involved again.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

You may not see anything wrong with it but if this friendship is something that must be kept secret from your spouse then that is one indication that there is something wrong with it.

Aside from the fact that when your husband finds out you've been communicating with another man on a higher level than the usual "hey how's the weather" then you'll have even more trouble on your plate.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Well truth be told, husband found out just last night and saw my phone. He didnt get physical. He just said we are done... but he is still reluctant to move out because he wants to be with the kids. I might have to legally get him moved out. I dont know.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

What was on the phone that made him say you guys are done? That's not the typical response when texts are innocent or just catching up on old times.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

ScarletBegonias said:


> What was on the phone that made him say you guys are done? That's not the typical response when texts are innocent or just catching up on old times.


It is with a controlling personality.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

"I love talking to you. Three hours seems like nothing." Was his text that came through at the time.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> It is with a controlling personality.


Good point.

I was under the impression that a controlling/abusive guy won't immediately say it's done,he'd want to keep the woman under his thumb and prove to OM that the wife belongs to the husband.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

PAgirl said:


> True. Not denying that. I have started weekly therapy. Yes, my dad did this to me too growing up. Im not saying I dont have faults either. *I still dont see any harm with continuing a friendship with this man when he lives 3,000 miles away. *But I agree you should be mentally healthy before getting involved again.


Well, since a follow up post said that your husband found out last night anyway, my comment is a bit late. But, you asked, so I will tell you. It would be ok to continue the friendship... if that was what it actually was. But it's not. It's an affair. And there is no excuse that can be made to make an affair "ok". None. Not physical abuse, not emotional abuse. Nothing. While maried to your husband, it is not ok to carry on an affair of any sort...even with someone 3000 miles away. My AP (affair partner) was about the same distance from me. No chance whatsoever of meeting in person. It still was not ok. Yea, I may come across as harsh, but it's because I've been there, done that and woke up. Like I said, if was actually only a friendship, it would be ok. But since it's not, it's not ok.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Good point.
> 
> I was under the impression that a controlling/abusive guy won't immediately say it's done,he'd want to keep the woman under his thumb and prove to OM that the wife belongs to the husband.


But he is refusing to move out. My husband just texted me and asked me to type up a job estimate for him (for his business)??!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

he's refusing bc of the kids he says.

I think I'd be incredibly worried and fearful if I was being abused then my husband found out I was having an emotional affair.He might be calm now but you never know what's going on inside of his mind.Just be careful and get your ducks in a row.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> he's refusing bc of the kids he says.
> 
> I think I'd be incredibly worried and fearful if I was being abused then my husband found out I was having an emotional affair.He might be calm now but you never know what's going on inside of his mind.Just be careful and get your ducks in a row.


Your right. He just texted me saying "instead of wasting your time talking to this bozo you could have been cleaning out the crap that you left in the upstairs hallway". Does he not understand what is going on here? I am going to look for some legal counsel or something.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

What do I do if my husband demands to look at the texts on my phone? Do I let him? He knows I am talking to him and said its fine and we have are beginning separation (we got separate bank accounts yesterday). Now suddenly he wants to see the texts Ive had with the other man. Does he want to use them against me in court? If I delete the texts, does that protect me in the long run (legally)?

They are not sexual, but yes a little flirty. He calls me babe or baby in the texts. I didn't want husband to see this and lash out on me.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

If you want to stay married, give him the phone. If you want to D, delete them, because he will find out eventually.
You are deep in an EA. If you are doing something you don't want your spouse to see, it is outside the bounds of a marriage-and you seem to know that. One of your relationships needs to end. Either you pick, or your husband will.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

I want to end the marriage. I don't know where this other relationship is heading, I realize it may not go anywhere. But I need to end my marriage regardless. We have done counseling several times and I don't see anything changing. I cant stand my husband in so many ways - including the way he treats the kids sometimes.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Then seek out the resources available to you and file.... Your fear is only paralyzing you right now. The A is just something to take the focus off the magnitude of the changes about to take place. It is a cowardly way out, and infidelity is akin to the feelings caused by abuse.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

I have helped a female go through exactly what you are going through. This is ONLY the beginning. You need to remain proactive and your only weapon will be the kids, sadly.

This woman I knew had two kids with a mean physical guy. When he got drunk, he got aggressive. When they argued, he got physical. When she denied him sex, he got verbal. She worked during the day and he worked during the night. There relationship was complete crap and she felt stuck. She worked a dead end job, has two kids with him, wish he'd go back to before, etc etc. She was afraid to leave him.

But then along came her first boyfriend from the beginning of time.. she took his virginity.. and described him as the love of her life but they went separate ways and she never really stopped loving him. The minute they started talking, she did not feel stuck anymore and now had a reason to leave. They had a full blown EA. She was so addicted to this guy now.. she couldn't focus on work - nothing. She put him over everything and looked like she was highschool again. Her abusive spouse found out and he did the same thing - we are done. That was it and moved out the next day. Didn't make sense.

As the days progressed, they set up days to have the kids. The OM and her now started to have sex and re fell in love and everything was great. Now, the H started flipping out. Started being verbal on facebook. She had to block him. It was a whole mess - he started threatening once he saw that she was happy and he wasn't. He started to threaten his life and hers. Wanted to go to counseling. Wanted to kill the other guy. etc etc She took the kids from him for a month through the court and that is probably the only reason why she is still alive because he got his crap together. 

In the end, her first love left her after 3 months. She was devastated. He went back to his ex. 

Now, she feels brand new. Her ex husband calmed down and has a g/f now who is hotter than her - so she sometimes gets angry because he brings her when they pick up the kids. I can tell she's not completely over her ex husband now that the fog is over and her life is at a standstill. She dates around now, but many guys aren't interested after a week once they see how much baggage she carries around but that certain guy will pop up soon.

She goes out a lot now when the ex has the kids and that's it now.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

You were going to MC correct? Did the counselor know about the physical abuse?
I ask because I went to MC also, and in a way it gave my stbx more ammunition. A couple of times I couldn't go and he ended up going alone.. that was a disaster.

I was later told at a women's abuse clinic that they NEVER recommend MC for situations like this. 

I understand why you think this new man would be a solution.. it's an escape from the marriage and life you have. And it may seem okay for right now, but you are just avoiding the things you need to do.

With that being said, if your husband is physically abusive you need to get out of the house and get your kids out. You need to file an order of protection.

A lot of times people like this are "okay" and seem stable because they are just waiting for the right time to pounce.

This other guy you have in your life will need to be put on the backburner - if you want the chance to have a relationship with him you need to get yourself well emotionally.

I don't think you have to be 100% divorced but at least be filing and separated for a time. As much as you think you know this man you don't... not in the state you are in right now. He looks so much better because of the relationship you have been in, and due to the fear you have. 
But getting into a relationship with him or continuing it will only hurt. You cannot use him as a crutch for the things you need to deal with. And since you were in an abusive relationship you need to figure out WHY .. because you may find yourself with another guy who has those traits.

Focus on YOU and the kids and getting out.

Then focus on a relationship that you can fully commit to.

I do not agree with having EA BUT I can understand when you are in such a situation that it can happen without you even knowing it.

I would suggest NOT giving your husband the phone, and calling the police if he tries to do anything to you because you won't give it to him.

Oh.. and get a lawyer!!!!!


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

wise said:


> I have helped a female go through exactly what you are going through. This is ONLY the beginning. You need to remain proactive and your only weapon will be the kids, sadly.
> 
> This woman I knew had two kids with a mean physical guy. When he got drunk, he got aggressive. When they argued, he got physical. When she denied him sex, he got verbal. She worked during the day and he worked during the night. There relationship was complete crap and she felt stuck. She worked a dead end job, has two kids with him, wish he'd go back to before, etc etc. She was afraid to leave him.
> 
> ...


Happy ending! I mean through the EA, she found the confidence needed to leave her abusive husband. Yes the other relationship didnt work, but at least she moved on. She could still find love again.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

To answer Bunny's question, no I did not have the courage to tell the counselor about the abuse while we went to marriage counseling together. 

Now that I started therapy for myself, it is with the same counselor, and yes I told her it was happening all this time.

My stbxh got a little scary and grabbed the phone out of my own pocket yesterday. But he cant figure out the password to unlock it. So he gave it back.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Do you have a lawyer yet? 
I hope you've stopped conversing with the OM.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

PAgirl,

I could never blame someone for leaving an abusive relationship.
I think separation can be a probation period as a wake up call if you want to try and save the marriage or even give yourself some time to clear you head.

Getting involved in an EA seriously complicates it for you and any kids you have. I could show you stories here on TAM, its ugly.

If you leave the marriage do it for you, and give yourself enough time to settle into your decision.

The fact that you have endured in an abusive relationship means you need counseling. No disrespect intended.

If this guy (Your EA partner) is truly free to pick start another relationship (not just on a break from his wife, before he decides to get back with her, which happens all the time), then he should be able to give you some room for your own well being.

Personally I think you should approach a separation as a way to try to address the needs in your marriage. Have no contact with this other boyfriend. Your husband needs a wake up call, and men often don't realize what they are in danger of losing until its to late. Let me apologize for the denseness of my gender.

You will not regret feeling like you gave it an honest shot. But you NEVER have to tolerate abuse of any kind!! 

You are still very young.

You have made a very bad choice to communicate with this man like this. At this point one day your husband will tell your kids that you began a love affair with another man and that is why the marriage ended. This may be true if you show him the phone or not.

Tell him that no matter what happens you made a bad decision to start this communication with another man before you either fixed or fled you current marriage. And you are ending all contact, it will get very messy if you fail at this point.

I am inclined to think that if your husband is willing to work to improve the marriage even during the separation that you tell him you will show him the phone, maybe in counseling, but if you are going to divorce, then tell him it was a bad decision on your part and you chose not to discuss it with someone that you are litigating with.

He will be pissed but you are divorcing him anyway and showing him the phone will not help you.

There is the thought that he may think it was much worse if you do not show it to him, so you have to use your own judgment here as well.


Now this...


PAgirl said:


> Happy ending! I mean through the EA, she found the confidence needed to leave her abusive husband. Yes the other relationship didnt work, but at least she moved on. She could still find love again.


I am not trying to insult you here but this makes you sound like a very weak, dependent and immature woman.

I am worried that you do not have a good support system. I think you should start individual counseling ASAP and discuss this with your counselor. 
( I know this sounds a bit pretentious on my part)

Also is there any kind of father figure you can discuss this with.
This last statement tells me you need some guidance, and not just a "you go girl" type counsel.

Its a bit scrambled but I think I said what was on my heart.
Abuse Is never acceptable but I am sure you are 50% of the other problems in your marriage, so you need to grow some and please consider the long term consequences of what you do on you, your marriage, and your children.

I wish you well, Take care!


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Im sorry you have gotten the wrong impression of me. I am 38 and I have been with my husband for nearly 10 years (married for 8). I already know I need counseling because I obviously shouldve left years ago when the abuse started. I am in counseling now. I have a best girlfriend who I am also sharing all of this with as well (now I am anyway). I never said that my husband is all to blame. I know what my faults are. I am working on them. The difference is, my husband does not recognize his faults. He thinks there is nothing wrong with hitting - he actually said this to me. Mainly my faults are that I nag him and put him down. But after years of fighting, it just comes naturally because I dont respect him anymore. Now, I certainly am not doing that. I am just not arguing anymore. Not worth it.

Another thing, I have a full time career and we have a three year old son who is possibly autistic and also has a serious heart disease (genetic). So I have to deal with his medical appointments and therapists and coordinate all of that while managing my job and our home responsibilities. Its a lot on my plate and its been easy to not focus on my marriage problems and instead focus on my son and other things in life. That is how I have been dealing. I do believe that I am healthy enough emotionally to handle going through a divorce now; but two months ago, I dont know. I just didnt want to perish the thought. Just the fact that I WANTED to talk to another man, is what made me re-evaluate everything. If this other man disappeared tomorrow, I can guarantee 100% that I will still go through with this divorce. This has helped me open my eyes.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

PAgirl said:


> ...husband found out just last night and saw my phone. He didnt get physical. He just said we are done... but he is still reluctant to move out because he wants to be with the kids. I might have to legally get him moved out. I dont know.


Why don't you leave?

You are the one that is having an affair and you are the one that wanted the marriage to be over, so why aren't you leaving?

If this guy is abusive and has been for years, wouldn't you, as a mother, be more concerned with getting your kids away from him? 

You have never told anyone about the abuse, even your best friend? Only now, that you are in love with old-boyfriend, and ready to move on from your marriage, do you tell anyone that he has been abusive the whole time? I am not calling you a liar, but it doesn't come across as very sincere...it screams of rug-sweeping your affair and blame-shifting it on his abuse.

*I will trust that you are telling the truth about the abuse.* Do you have any evidence, pictures of the bruises, recordings of the abuse (ie: VAR)? If not, please get a VAR and have it on you just in case he assaults you in the future.

Talk to an attorney and start planning the split. Stop your affair until you have your children safely away from the abuser. Stop calling him "fawkin loser", which instigates his assaults. Have very little contact except for the children's sake.

Seriously, you should plan on leaving him as opposed to expecting him moving out, because he likely won't unless you have proof of his abuse. Talk to a lawyer about getting custody or 50/50 split if you think he should be in the kid's lives (unless you can prove abuse, he'll likely get 50/50).

Start the ball rolling now instead of flirting with old lover-boy. Yours and your children's safety should be your primary concern if the guy is abusive.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

PAgirly,

Thank you for clarifying your situation to me.

It does sound like you are in a stronger place then I realized.
I am glad for you. Keep finding support.

Saying it is ok to hit makes my blood boil.

Having said that I just want to make sure you have no regrets.

If you divorce and your husband wakes up (that's as nice as I can put it) you may decide to try and mend the family, so involvement with another man would be harmful. Think about giving it some time at that point.

PAgirl I believe you when you say that the old flame just opened your eyes, its not TAM orthodoxy but I get it.

There is no excuse for cheating, but abuse changes everything in a marriage.

The problem is that cheating under these circumstances is like a revenge affair, it seems like it will help but you don't find out till later the real damage it does to everyone involved.

You are moving in the right direction, just remember, don't do anything you will regret, its not worth it.

I am so sorry for what has happened to you. 

You and your 3 year old son will be in my thoughts, my youngest of 4 just turned 18 and I know how things that affect your kids take a toll.

You sound very responsible, and under the circumstances and with those responsibilities anyone with common sense knows that you don't want to be divorced.

I really wish you well, take care!


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Thank you Decorum. Yes, I have been worried that a divorce would shake things up so much for our children that it would be worse for them so I put the idea out of my mind for too long. I tried not to think about it but I certainly knew it wasnt a healthy living situation either. Financially, I think I can support them myself...so I am feeling a lot more positive about it. The thing about "mending the family" is that if the husband says he will change, there is no guarentee. Ive known him for nearly 10 years so I dont think he can change that much. His controlling nature is part of him honestly. I need to do what is best for everyone.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

PAgirl said:


> I am taking your advice seriously. I plan on divorcing... and not because of this guy, because of my kids and me. I have even scheduled an appointment with a therapist for myself. I wont go and visit him because obviously if I completely disagreed with all of you, I wouldn't have written on this board. I had a nagging feeling it wasn't a great idea. I just WANT to though! However, is it so wrong to continue talking to him? Yes it is an emotional affair, but it is what it is. Its not like Im in a great and wonderful marriage and am risking throwing it away.


You are very much cheating and eager to continue so. Hours of secret calls etc. So you are being dishonest with yourself if you think you wanting a D has nothing to do with your affair partner.


Have you realized that your husband won't let you pack up his kids and move across the country to be with your lover?

That your kids should stay right where they are today. Same school, same friends. Same father.

It's you who has chosen to leave them to be with your affair partner.

As a mother would you want your children to be in a relationship with someone behaving like you are? Someone who is already cheating in the fathers trust and faith in you?

The path you are on does not have a happy ending for anyone. It's built on betrayal and lies.

Unfortunately is sounds like you've done a great job rationalizing why its ok for you to cheat and betray your own marriage - that your husband deserves it, and that your OM will step in and be a great dad to your kids, and that your horrible husband will hopefully never be the wiser to having been cheated on, and will just give you the house, the kids, alimony, and his blessing to move across the country with your kids, to be with their new better dad. Then he'll just slink off into the past and go away.

Sorry, but that's all fantasy.

The harsh reality is that it won't work out that way at all.

Your kids will see through your lies and realize mom is just another cheater who betrayed their father and tried to nail it to him in the divorce.

They'll never accept or tolerate the guy you are trying to replace as their father.

And your husband will figure out he's being cheated on and will go for custody, and will expose you as a cheater to friends and family.

No more family get togethers or Christmas mornings. Instead you'll be shuttering the kids back and forth for holidays and school breaks.

The choice is yours - keep cheating or choose to stop being that person.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw I'm not saying stay married to an abusive husband.

Not at all.

Just do not be a cheater. That's the cowards way of dealing with things.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

PA - I think you have bigger issues to worry about at the present than the old love. I read your other thread about your 7 year old daughter, her odd behavior recently and the possible sexual possible she may have experienced. I urge you to get a hidden cameras for the home and follow up with the child psychologist you were planning to take your daughter to. IF I were you, I wouldn't tell your husband about the hidden cameras especially given his somewhat nonchalant attitude when you brought up your daughter's issues.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> PA - I think you have bigger issues to worry about at the present than the old love. I read your other thread about your 7 year old daughter, her odd behavior recently and the possible sexual possible she may have experienced. I urge you to get a hidden cameras for the home and follow up with the child psychologist you were planning to take your daughter to. IF I were you, I wouldn't tell your husband about the hidden cameras especially given his somewhat nonchalant attitude when you brought up your daughter's issues.


Yes, I know. My son also has some medical issues too. As far as the other man, I have changed my mind since the beginning of this thread. Im not getting swept up in the fantasy anymore. I told him that no more flirting and just casual conversation only. I dont see anything wrong with that. As long as it doesnt interfere with my busy life. Yes, I am toning the long conversations down. I dont have time for it anyway. I am still glad I reconnected with him even if it just remains as friends. 

Bottom line is, yes a divorce is hard on the kids... but what is worse - seeing them deteriorate before my eyes??! Yes, that is worse. So I am taking steps towards a divorce, I have contacted an attorney, and I am getting my daughter private counseling.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PAgirl said:


> What do I do if my husband demands to look at the texts on my phone? Do I let him? He knows I am talking to him and said its fine and we have are beginning separation (we got separate bank accounts yesterday). Now suddenly he wants to see the texts Ive had with the other man. Does he want to use them against me in court? If I delete the texts, does that protect me in the long run (legally)?
> 
> They are not sexual, but yes a little flirty. He calls me babe or baby in the texts. I didn't want husband to see this and lash out on me.


Most courts do not consider a friendship/relationship that exists only by phone and electronically as an affair. There has to be physical sex for it to be legally considered an affair.

You two are in the process of separating. You do not need to show him the texts. Shoot go get another phone, just like the one you have, then there is nothing to check. Texts can be down loaded from some phone even after they are deleted.. they are still there in memory. 

I'm mostly concerned about you being safe. So do have a cell phone near you, or on you, at all times. Dial 911 if she starts to abuse you, throw things, etc.

If he starts to yell, tell him that you will not talk when there is yelling and emotional/verbal abuse. You have to stop calling him names. When you argue back, call him names, try to explain/justify yourself you are escalating the situation. So instead back out of it.

If you have to call 911 tell the police that he beats on you often and you do not want him in the house anymore. They will most likely have him leave. YOu can get a restraining order.

From the things he's saying, this is going to escalate.

I do not recall. Has you cheated before?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Your welcome PAgirl.

I think you are on the right path. This is all over my head, but when I mentioned "mending" I only meant like give yourself 6 months before dating to avoid the appearance of leaving for another man, and to be sure you are ready to move on. Give your head a chance to clear from the divorce and all.

EleGirl above is a good resource on issues of abuse, but it seems unlikely that your husband would change to me as well, and I think it would take some years of proven change before he could earn his way back.

But I am NOT pushing for that, I am just more concerned that YOU have no regrets. If you are at peace with your decision that's good enough, (as much as one can be at peace under the circumstances, you know what I mean).

I don't think I have to warn you about jumping back in based on his promises.

Its going to be hard but I wish you well.

Take care!


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

Elegirl = Thanks for that, great advice. To answer your question... no, I have never cheated, not even talked to another guy in any questionable way before. Same goes for my husband, never cheated. Yes, my therapist also said that in the courts, talking or texting is not considered an affair. She also said to delete all texts right away.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

PAgirl said:


> Yes, I know. My son also has some medical issues too. As far as the other man, I have changed my mind since the beginning of this thread. Im not getting swept up in the fantasy anymore. I told him that no more flirting and just casual conversation only. I dont see anything wrong with that. As long as it doesnt interfere with my busy life. Yes, I am toning the long conversations down. I dont have time for it anyway. I am still glad I reconnected with him even if it just remains as friends.
> 
> Bottom line is, yes a divorce is hard on the kids... but what is worse - seeing them deteriorate before my eyes??! Yes, that is worse. So I am taking steps towards a divorce, I have contacted an attorney, and I am getting my daughter private counseling.


 I'm glad you finally realized that. For a while there you were getting your wires crossed up and you have way too much on your plate. 

What you need to do is end the abusive marriage you in, then take a step or two back and let the dust settle, make sure you kid is ok with the problems he has and after your head clears, then if the door is still open with the old boyfriend, then you can enter with a fresh out look on life and be happy. I too believe that no matter how bad the problems are between you and your husband, he has no right hitting you. Honestly, I don't know how he could look himself in the mirror. Not to mention that there can be nothing worse for a man other than being a molester than being a wife beater. No one has respect for someone like that.

My first wife was as mean as they come when pissed off and she on a few occasions had got physical with me and I was on the other end of her fists and her mouth. she was a biter and she bit me in the stomach and drew blood. Needed stiches and I could have cut loose and changed her appearance for life but didn't. Thank God we divorced. Remember, take one step at a time.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

I had my first consultation today with a divorce attorney. I told her about everything, including the other man. She said talking is fine, but a physical affair is not. So I know to keep it the way it is until everything is final which I know could take up to two years if he doesnt consent to the divorce. I got a lot of questions answered and I will be filing soon. I am going to start seperating the credit cards and other finances. The only problem is that my husband can stay in the house if he chooses... until he hits or pushes me again, then I need to call the police and get an order of protection filed. Then he will have to move out. My main concern right now is that this is gonna financially run me dry. But I dont really have a choice, my kids need a better life than this and so do I.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

wise said:


> I have helped a female go through exactly what you are going through. This is ONLY the beginning. You need to remain proactive and your only weapon will be the kids, sadly.
> 
> This woman I knew had two kids with a mean physical guy. When he got drunk, he got aggressive. When they argued, he got physical. When she denied him sex, he got verbal. She worked during the day and he worked during the night. There relationship was complete crap and she felt stuck. She worked a dead end job, has two kids with him, wish he'd go back to before, etc etc. She was afraid to leave him.
> 
> ...


Well she did the right thing. Why should she want a mean drunk guy who is abusive? Let "hotter than her"
Girl have him. She will eventually find someone much better than her ex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hereinthemidwest (Oct 7, 2010)

ANOTHER FB STORIE...OMG this kills me. After how long you think what you once had is still there? You both aren't even the same people. STOP go to you husband...sit and talk tell him your needs. Walk around the tv naked if you have too. TELL HIM I am thinking of leaving. Dont run into arms or some other guy. You owe yourself more then then that. If you leave...leave for YOU.

Once you pull this deadly trigger...never the same. I am begging you...SAVE YOUR MARIAGE / FAMILY.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

PAgirl said:


> I had my first consultation today with a divorce attorney. I told her about everything, including the other man. She said talking is fine, but a physical affair is not. So I know to keep it the way it is until everything is final which I know could take up to two years if he doesnt consent to the divorce. I got a lot of questions answered and I will be filing soon. I am going to start seperating the credit cards and other finances. The only problem is that my husband can stay in the house if he chooses... until he hits or pushes me again, then I need to call the police and get an order of protection filed. Then he will have to move out. My main concern right now is that this is gonna financially run me dry. But I dont really have a choice, my kids need a better life than this and so do I.



Thanks for the update PAgirl it is a sensible approach.

It actually sounds like you are both emotionally ready to move in that direction anyway.

In the future he may respect you for your decision, if he can shall we say wake up.

Please don’t take any risk with your welfare or your children’s, and of course if he behaves himself then be fair to him as well, he does not need a record that could hurt his income, and his ability to support his kids.

Take care!


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## KAM1959 (Aug 28, 2013)

He is abusing you. Get out now before it's to late. There is no excuse for violence and 8 years is not that long! In short, get a divorce. 
Violence given by a man on a woman or a woman on a man is not true love. I know first hand.


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## PAgirl (Sep 10, 2013)

So interesting that some of you on this thread is telling me to save my marriage and others are telling me to divorce. I have gotten some advice from really good friends too who know both me and my husband really well. My matron of honor actually. She said I need to divorce. She has seen his temper. Its really about my kids. They are the true victims and I cant let this continue for their sake. Now my husband is hurting and swears he will change so its getting hard for me ... not sure if Im doing the right thing. Well, I am 90% sure I am. I know he cannot change overnight... just not possible. Even if he never raises his hand again, he is still very controlling and impatient. I am starting to see how other married couples are and they seem genuinely happy... like I type of happy that I dont have or ever had I dont think. Im 38 so I dont think its too late to change my life for the better. Thanks everyone for your opinions they have been very helpful!


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