# Hair and Makeup



## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

Okay,

First, I am a man. I am writing here because I need a woman's perspective. Please, don't beat me up; just try to understand.

The truth is, I am engaged to someone I have lived with for more than four years. We plan to get married this summer.

What is bothering me? I will be blunt and explicit (I am NEVER blunt and explicit to her!) She looks horrible frequently. She doesn't take care of her hair, and her makeup often looks non existent. On the other hand, I go out of my WAY to look as good as I can every day. At our age, I spend more time on MY makeup than she does on hers. Yes. I use cleansers, and primer. I use two shades of concealer and do very subtle contouring. I use a bit of eye shadow. I use a natural looking eye shadow. I also use a black eye shadow in a very subtle way on my lashes and brows. I go out of my way to actually look like I am NOT wearing makeup. I doubt anyone knows. But I mention these things so that you might understand I am willing to walk the talk. And all of this is only AFTER I shave my head and face every single day: not to mention the pain and time in takes to pull all those embarrassing hairs in ears and nose that just don't seem to stop. To sum it up, I am not just a simple take a shower and go guy. Whether I am at home, the office, hiking, the supermarket, etc. I take pride in how I look. At my age, wash and go doesn't work.

She, on the other hand? It is a coin toss. She doesn't even carry a comb. She does bad things with her hair. Her makeup looks bad, and often looks like she isn't wearing anything at all. This, coupled with her sometimes poor choice of clothing just looks horrible. Or, if the clothes look great, the striking contrast of horrible hair and makeup somehow make it even worse.

We have had repeated conversations in the past. Does no good. I would find helpful tutorials and send them to her. Does no good. I even recently sent her an article that was written BY a woman, TO women, that basically explained the this stuff is very important to men, that it has NOTHING to do with weight issues, and that it makes men feel good when their woman looks good. The result? I slept on the couch for five days with a letter telling me that she is tired of my comments, my "suggestions," my tutorials, my gifts, ANYTHING that is related to appearance.

As one random example: she habitually does this one thing with her hair, putting it behind her ears. 10 seconds and some gel would make it looks so terribly cute. But I can't say anything. I can say nothing.

The truth? It is very painful. I wouldn't want to look that bad, and I try not to out of respect for myself and her! Not that I am some great catch, but I wouldn't ever want to embarrass her. I want her to feel proud of me, and I try hard so that she CAN feel proud of me.

I don't get the same. And the truth? It is an ugly truth. It makes me feel emotionally horrible. I am embarrassed, my stomach hurts, I lose my appetite, etc. I can't control how I feel. I can control what I DO, but I can't control how I feel.

What on Earth can I do at this point?

Please help,

Thanks in Advance


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Um. No help here. No makeup on this face. On a good day I might wear my hair down. If you find this actually painful, and you think she looks "that bad" because she does not wear gel in her hair, which is an issue of respect, then you may not be compatible with each other.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

You don't like her so don't marry her, simple.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

When you met her, did she wear make up and do her hair?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So this is the same woman you were in a sexless relationship with 2 years ago? Why on earth are you getting married???

She is who she is. Frankly, you sound a tad bit high maintenance, and she sounds the opposite. If you find her so unattractive, let her go to find someone who finds her quirks attractive. Good grief.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

You must be looking at old post. If that was the case, it was a very brief time. No problems there. Lots of great sex.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

She has different values than you do and this will never change. She's a nature kind of woman and you're a nurture kind of man. She wants to be loved and valued for who she is, on the inside as well as the outside. Looks fade, make up will only do so much for so long, eventually we all look older than our grandparents. 

This obviously really bothers you and it always will. I suggest, and you're not going to want to hear this, that you find a woman who values the time and effort it takes to present herself in the most favorable way. 

But deep down, even someone like me who rarely steps foot outside without mascara, want to be attractive to our mates without any effort at all. And honey, she will never have that with you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Guy here, but I have to respond. Do this poor girl a huge favor and do not marry her. She will be unhappy as will you.

I like the natural look. Far more sexy to me. You do not. Most guys do not do makeup so your expectations for her are far too unreasonable. 

You do not find you bride to be attractive? This marriage will not work. You are embarrassed about how she looks. Just think how bad that makes her feel. 

Jeez man, you think your fiancee is ugly and unattractive. I probably would look at her and think she is hot. This is all on you.

The ladies can give you tips on what she can do - go to mall for makeup training etc. However this fine lady has already told you NO point blank. 

You give her tutorials on how she can be less ugly? Is this for real?


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> When you met her, did she wear make up and do her hair?


Yes, she did.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> She has different values than you do and this will never change. She's a nature kind of woman and you're a nurture kind of man.


I am afraid you are right. Now, this isn't what she SAYS, but it shows in her actions.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

LoveLonely said:


> You must be looking at old post. If that was the case, it was a very brief time. No problems there. Lots of great sex.


Yes, I was looking at a post you put up two years ago about 'signs you are in a sexless relationship'. I assumed it was with the same woman.

Anyway, like I said you are not going to change her. So stop trying. Also stop with the makeup yourself.


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## bluezone (Jan 7, 2012)

Although I don't wear a lot of makeup, I do wear foundation, lip gloss, mascara. I do take care of myself and try and look my best. The only thing I'm going to chime in with here is that one of the points in "His Needs, Her Needs" is that a husband wants his wife to look good. (not that they shouldn't do the same!!)...But that it's important to them that their wife looks good and they can be proud of her. So OP you do have a point...although it sounds like your expectations may be slightly unrealistic as others have mentioned. And I think you should stop hounding her about her looks, etc. The effort to take care of herself has to come from her.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

bluezone said:


> one of the points in "His Needs, Her Needs" is that a husband wants his wife to look good. (not that they shouldn't do the same!!)...But that it's important to them that their wife looks good and they can be proud of her.


Yes, but each couple needs to agree on what exactly 'looking good' entails. If my husband insisted that I wear make up all the time and dress in fancy clothes and do my hair just so, it wouldn't be happening. These two are just mismatched completely in this regard, and if he's going to insist she conform to his standards it ain't gonna work.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

I don't have much to say here...I have two small kids. My days of standing in front of a mirror are over. Even before kids I wasn't really into makeup. Some people just aren't.
Doesn't sound like you like her very much and don't really find her attractive...why marry her? 


Sent from my iPhone


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

LoveLonely said:


> Okay,
> 
> First, I am a man. I am writing here because I need a woman's perspective. Please, don't beat me up; just try to understand.
> 
> ...


Do you expect her to doll up all the time or just when you go out together? 

If you expect this at home, I think things will only get worse if you get married because you will be frustrated with her lack of makeup and she will feel unattractive to her own husband and annoyed by you trying to control what she wears (or doesn't wear) on her face in her own home.

I never leave the house with my husband without doing hair and makeup. I seldom leave the house that way at all. And I always wear outfits he also likes and thinks are flattering on me when we go somewhere.

However, when we are at home? Just the two of us? I would never do my hair and put on makeup. I run a comb through it in the morning and spritz it with water if it's really acting up, but beyond that - it would never occur to me to put on makeup in my own home. I also wear sweatpants, t-shirts, no bra and ratty old wool sweaters around the house. (Though I never go out in public like that.)

I have made an effort lately to get cuter tops to wear around the house 'cause they were really looking scroungy. But I'm clumsy and stain things so I don't like to wear any of my "nice" clothes at home when I'm cooking and whatnot.

If my husband needed me to put makeup on every day to be attractive to him, that simply would not work long term. I would probably try at first then quickly think "this is ridiculous." Then he would feel resentful that I wasn't trying harder and I'd feel resentful that he was so fussy.

How does she feel about the fact that you do wear makeup and pluck hairs every day? You make it sound like you think that is an asset of yours, and I'm sure it is for the right woman, but I personally would be so turned off by the idea of a "man" doing that that I would end the relationship as soon as I realized he was doing that. You two may be very incompatible in this area.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

My husband thinks I look funny in makeup.


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

LoveLonely said:


> I use cleansers, and *primer. *I use two shades of* concealer* and do very subtle* contouring*. I use a bit of eye shadow. I use a natural looking eye shadow. I also use a black *eye shadow* in a very subtle way on my lashes and brows. I go out of my way to actually look like I am NOT wearing makeup. I doubt anyone knows.


Yes, everyone knows.

Maybe the woman is pissed because you wear more makeup than her. Try the reverse. Go two weeks without you wearing makeup and see what happens.

What the heck is primer?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Yes, everyone knows.
> 
> Maybe the woman is pissed because you wear more makeup than her. Try the reverse. Go two weeks without you wearing makeup and see what happens.
> 
> *What the heck is primer?*



Primer is just another money making scam :grin2:

Well actually a good one _can _help, it evens out the skin before putting on foundation.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Simple. Do not marry a person you are not attracted too. This won't get better after you marry her.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

LoveLonely said:


> I don't get the same. And the truth? It is an ugly truth. It makes me feel emotionally horrible. I am embarrassed, my stomach hurts, I lose my appetite, etc. I can't control how I feel. I can control what I DO, but I can't control how I feel.
> 
> What on Earth can I do at this point?
> 
> ...


You can't control her either. If my SO required to wear make-up so that he could be proud of me a day feel good about himself --well, he'd have to go find himself a woman who likes make-up.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Yes, I agree with the others. If the OP has to put on a mask every day, how could he possibly appreciate a woman who doesn't?


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Man makeup. It goes on your car....


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I am betting that most people know you're wearing make up. It's not that hard to tell if someone is - especially if they are going all out with contouring. Maybe she is embarrassed that her fiance wears more make up than some women do? 

Bottom line, don't marry her. You're ashamed of how she looks, which is your problem. Since you haven't told her that you're not attracted to her, I think you should just go ahead and move on. This is incredibly unfair to her.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

LoveLonely said:


> <snip>
> 
> I go out of my WAY to look as good as I can every day. At our age, I spend more time on MY makeup than she does on hers. Yes. I use cleansers, and primer. I use two shades of concealer and do very subtle contouring. I use a bit of eye shadow. I use a natural looking eye shadow. I also use a black eye shadow in a very subtle way on my lashes and brows. I go out of my way to actually look like I am NOT wearing makeup.
> 
> ...


Are you sure that your fiancee feels proud of you and that you do not embarrass her? Maybe she's hoping you'll break things off with her because she can't bring herself to do it but wants to be free of you?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WorkingWife said:


> How does she feel about the fact that you do wear makeup and pluck hairs every day? You make it sound like you think that is an asset of yours, and I'm sure it is for the right woman, but I personally would be so turned off by the idea of a "man" doing that that I would end the relationship as soon as I realized he was doing that. You two may be very incompatible in this area.



Not to pick on you, honestly  but I just wanted to ask why you think it's okay for women to pluck unwanted body hair and wear makeup but it's not okay for a man to do it?

In the animal world it is the male with the attractive appearance, build, vocalizations, while the female is that species remain pretty plain and camouflaged. There have been time periods in western society in which the male got pretty dolled up right along side the females. There are some cultures today in which the males wear flashy clothing and jewelry to attract the females.

So why in our society do we deem manscaping an unattractive behavior for a male?

In my quest for equality I challenge my own thinking and knee jerk reactions to heteronormative assumptions.

Again, not picking on you just interested in this subject.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
This is one of those cases where people like different things. I don't like makeup on women and my wife wears very little (I'd be happy if she wore none). For other people makeup is important.

If it matters a lot to you, you need to find someone compatible.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Not to pick on you, honestly  but I just wanted to ask why you think it's okay for women to pluck unwanted body hair and wear makeup but it's not okay for a man to do it?
> 
> In the animal world it is the male with the attractive appearance, build, vocalizations, while the female is that species remain pretty plain and camouflaged. There have been time periods in western society in which the male got pretty dolled up right along side the females. There are some cultures today in which the males wear flashy clothing and jewelry to attract the females.
> 
> ...


No problem, I do not feel picked on.

I don't feel it is or is not "okay" - or right or wrong - for either to do either. A person's individual grooming habits are up to them.

What I am saying is that I personally, find the idea of a man choosing to do that the opposite of attractive to me. It seems very superficial and creepy. I go in for the "rugged" kind of man. Not one who is so focused on his face that he is putting concealer and eyeshadow on. Same reason when I see an earring or necklace on a guy I am turned off. To me, that is feminine, not masculine. 

Trimming excess nose and ear hair I'll allow! But individually plucking new hairs every day? I don't like the idea of a man who looks at himself that closely in the mirror on a daily basis.

I know many women who feel the same way I do and obviously there are plenty who appreciate a meticulously groomed man.

I very briefly dated a guy once who covered his car every day. It gave me the same creeped out "WTH are you doing?" feeling. There was nothing special about his car but he parked it outdoors and wanted it to stay clean. So every time he parked at home he pulled out this meticulously folded car cover and put it on the car. Then if we went somewhere he'd have to whip it off, fold it up and store it.

What's wrong with that? Absolutely nothing. Still it creeped me the F out like I can't even say. To think of getting serious with a person so focused on appearance they were willing to be futzing around with a damn car cover every time they wanted to go somewhere? No thank you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> So why in our society do we deem manscaping an unattractive behavior for a male?


I am all for all little manscaping. I prefer not to have one eyebrow (it's genetic) so I pluck the center and the occasional errant brow hair. I trim the nose and ear hairs. (I know, TMI). Even use after shave cream on face since it is very dry. That is probably normal for a guy.

Things like concealer, shadow, liner, primer, filler, dent repair are not what a typical guy does or even knows what they are. 
Why? It just is.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

You think your makeup isn't noticeable but I guarantee you there are plenty who know. I laugh at the "no makeup" selfies that I can tell they are wearing makeup with subtle shading and variations of nude lips, etc. Personally I don't want a man who requires more maintenance than me, but that's your thing.

Does SHE mind your makeup? Has she ever said you don't need it or as much? I wonder if she's trying to prove an au natural point.

Does she EVER dress up and/or put on makeup? Have you tried saying something like "I loved that red lip color you used to wear - it looked so hot on you" to see if she's willing to appease you without having to ask outright? Unfortunately most ways to imply the need for makeup and personal grooming will come across as back-handed compliments if not done just so.

Sounds like you're metrosexual and she's just into being a natural looking female embracing her flaws and all. While I might throw on a light lip stain, some bare minerals and a little mascara when I'm around the house, I have actually been complimented by a couple men my age (that is nearly 50) that it's nice someone doesn't look like a different person when you wake up next to them without any makeup on.

It will eventually impact your attraction to her. I think you need to figure out if this is the way it's going to be and if she simply doesn't care, no flaw in either of you. Just what you like is different. She doesn't put as much effort on hte outside - maybe she puts more effort on her inside whereas you value one's outward appearance more (not saying you think personality is unimportant; just prioritized differently). So move on before she stops shaving, too.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

Okay everyone,

Thanks for all the replies. I can't respond to everyone, but I CAN sort of seeing a "big picture" developing: a big picture developed from my poor and fast writing. Let me try to answer some things and also hopefully give a better picture:

No, I don't run around looking like I am hitting the rock stage. No I don't stare at the mirror looking for every single hair. The truth? I take care of excess hair in my ears and nose when I need to. I DO wear a very small bit of concealer to get rid of this ugly, splotchy, and large pored look. That is 99% of it. And yes, I wear a good primer because (based on my limited experience) the concealer doesn't look so good many hours later without it. There are rare times, depending on the event, where we BOTH go all out: it is the crowd and the places we go.

No, she is not a "natural" plain Jane. Let me paint a better picture. She actually wears platform heels to work. Sometimes she wears fishnet hoes. Sometimes she pushes the envelope with what someone might wear at the office versus what you might wear at the club. She is really into vintage style and perhaps a but rockabilly.

At home? Who cares? I don't.

I am talking about something very different. For instance, not bothering to even run a comb through your hair all day. Or putting the makeup on in a way that looks REALLY bad. Like the spinach on your teeth, toilet paper on your shoes, kind of thing.

Sometimes she goes for a very goth look. I love it. Sometimes she goes for a very classy look. I love it. It is the RESULT that is the problem. It isn't that she hates makeup. It isn't that at all, and I am sorry for doing such a poor job of explaining this in the beginning.

I would NEVER say this to he, but I am going to be VERY clear and explicit so that you will understand: she wants to wear makeup, she wants to wear nice clothes, she wants her hair to look good. But it looks like a five year old attempted it.

And, I can't say anything. Further, I can't share a great tutorial that helps with the basics. I can't notice a great article that offers helpful advise. I can't buy a spa day. I can't suggest a skirt. I can't get help from a makeup professional. I can't purchase an accessory. Anything!

I know what I am about to say is not correct, but it is a conclusion that someone could draw. She doesn't want to be plain. She wants to wear different things, and wear makeup. It is as if she has absolutely NO INTEREST in learning how to apply the makeup, or how to make her hair look good.

I hope I am making more sense. It isn't just some "please your man" kind of thing. At work, she often looks very unprofessional: sort of like a rebellious teenager who's mother didn't teach her how to do makeup.

I don't criticize her. I ALWAYS tell her when she looks good. And I don't care what she looks like around the house.

I ask you women to turn the tables. Yes, we can ALL do what we want. We are ALL free to do what we want. On the other hand, there are at least SOME women who would be frustrated if they had a man in their life and a similar problem. Hell, I will go further. I know there are many women who have already given up on their man years ago.

The truth is, I exaggerated and painted the wrong picture about my OWN looks. Am I metro? Probably? Do I look rugged? Probably. Do I go around wearing rock star eye liner with some feminine perfectly sculpted face, tweezing my hairs everyday? Not at all. I was trying to make the point that I do put the effort in. I try to make sure my clothes fit, look nice, and I look professional at work.

I hope this allows you to have a better understanding. Thank everyone for the comments. I feel like I just can't say or do anything and it is so DAMNED frustrating!

thanks.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

My longer comment below may help you better understand, so just a quick comment here: She is WAY to hard on herself concerning shaving. I make her feel good and tell her to relax about it...lol


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

I think there must be something wrong with her then, because trust me, if her hair and makeup look that bad she's getting hints about it from girlfriends and coworkers and even people on the street that she doesn't know. Probably some of her girlfriends have been completely honest with her about it. If she's impervious to people's reactions to her, then I don't think you can hope to change this about her. I wonder if she has a more serious problem - a brain health issue. Poor grooming is often one of the first symptoms of someone being unwell.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

A side note that perhaps some women (and men too) will appreciate:

There are many women who are frustrated because some men say they don't like makeup, or they just like a natural look. While this is most certainly the case sometimes, it isn't always the case: even if the men say it is. Why? Not too long ago I found (what I think is) an interesting reply from Quora that I copied and pasted; this is NOT my writing below:

*****************

When I was about 5 years old I used to like eating tuna fish salad for lunch. I didn't know how to make tuna salad; my mom had always made it for me and I had always enjoyed it. One day, I had a babysitter looking after me. It was lunch time; she asked me what I wanted and I said, "tuna." It was a fair enough request, so she began gathering ingredients. She asked me what I wanted in my tuna salad and I told her that I liked it plain.

This is when things started to get weird.

"So no celery or anything?" She asked.
"No, just plain."
She was a little puzzled but went along. "So just the mayo and tuna?"

At this point, I didn't understand what she wasn't getting about my request; it seemed pretty simple to me. "No, literally just the tuna on a plate is fine," I told her. [probably didn't use the word "literally" at age five but just go with it]

Now she was really confused. "So, you want the tuna, straight out of the can... like a cat?"

At this point I just stared at her, blankly, for a moment. I had never owned a cat. I had no idea what they ate. I knew I certainly wasn't a cat. And what was this business about a can? I just wanted lunch. "Err, uhh, yeah... that sounds right."

She shook her head a little and then proceeded to dump a can of tuna fish on to a plate and placed it in front of me on the kitchen table. I looked down at my lunch. It looked disgusting. I looked up at her. She looked back at me with a mix of curiosity and bewilderment.

For better or worse, it was in this moment that my mom got home and walked into the kitchen. I won't take you through the dialogue that ensued because this introduction is getting ridiculous but my mom was really confused as to why the babysitter had basically given me cat food for lunch, I was confused as to what horrible things my babysitter had done to make the tuna so disgusting and unappealing, and the babysitter probably thought that my mom and I were pulling some bizarre, psychological prank on her. It was a disaster. I don't think my mom ever hired her again but years later we got to the bottom of what had happened when I randomly helped my mom make tuna salad one time.

The point is, I liked tuna salad a certain way, but I had absolutely no idea what kind of preparation was required to reach the outcome that I enjoyed. I couldn't see the individual ingredients and hadn't actually put much thought into how it was prepared so I just sort of assumed that the tuna I liked was the norm, the baseline, the unadulterated way that it came. You could dress it up more if you wanted but I didn't like dressing it up. I liked it "plain."

I think most guys think about about girls putting time into their appearance the same way my five-year-old self thought about the preparation of tuna fish salad. It's something that we, frankly, don't put much thought into and when we do, our understanding of what needs to be done to achieve the outcomes that we are most fond of is so profoundly lacking that it is basically useless for us to give our opinions on the level of preparation that we prefer.

But if you're still reading, this is the actual answer I wrote in response to this question before remembering the tuna fish incident. Enjoy.



Most guys don't spend much time thinking about a girl's clothes or makeup. If something about your appearance makes us think about either of those things, you're probably doing something wrong.

Scenario 1: If I see a girl and think, "she must put a lot of time into her appearance," it's probably because she's trying way too hard to pull off an outfit that just doesn't work and/or she caked on way too much makeup in an unskilled manner.

Scenario 2: I see a girl and think, "yikes, that girl should've put a little more effort in this morning." She might look okay; she might even look pretty good, all things considered, but if that was my first thought when I saw her, chances are she is not looking her personal best.

Scenario 3: I see a girl and think, "wow, she's hot." I can tell you one thing that I absolutely, positively have never, and will NEVER think as my next thought; "I'd really like to find out exactly how much effort this girl expends in order to achieve this appearance so I can compare it to the effort expended by comparably attractive women because that will be a factor in deciding whether or not I want to have anything to do with her." To reiterate, that has never crossed my mind. (Unfortunately, now after writing this answer, that is probably the first thing I will think after seeing an attractive woman from now on, but I digress...) (thanks a lot Quora)

The point is, if you look good, you look good. Guys generally don't know (even if they think they do) or care much about how much effort was expended to achieve the outcome, they just focus on the outcome. If the outcome makes a guy think about the preparation process, there is probably something that can be done to change the process such that it will improve the outcome.

And remember, a guy who says he likes girls who don't put too much effort into their appearance is like a five-year-old kid asking for plain tuna fish. Nod and smile, but whatever you do in response to this statement, do not stop wearing flattering clothing, using appropriate amounts of makeup (if that's your thing), etc., and please, please, please, DO NOT serve cat food to a five-year-old, no matter what he says. You will lose your babysitting job. I guarantee it.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

It is something I handle with kid gloves. Yes, there ARE other reasons. Many. Childhood abuse, a father who repeated;y said "you look like a *****", a mother who didn't teach her how to do makeup, self esteem issues about her weight (and she is so damned hot too!), probably others.

I am exaggerating, but it is as if I were to buy her a comb, it translates into "I am fat and ugly!"


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

LoveLonely said:


> What on Earth can I do at this point?


There isn't anything you can do to make her change. You can either live with it or leave.
It sounds like the problem is that she doesn't know how to do her makeup and she thinks she's doing it fine, plus you tell her she looks great when you think she looks terrible. I don't know how to tell someone that they look terrible while still maintaining a healthy relationship. It's like telling someone they are fat. It doesn't matter if they really are fat or not. What matters is that they are unlikely to get over being told they are fat and it's a problem for you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

LoveLonely said:


> Okay,
> 
> To sum it up, I am not just a simple take a shower and go guy. Whether I am at home, the office, hiking, the supermarket, etc.* I take pride in how I look. * At my age, wash and go doesn't work.


Ok, bottom line is you have no pride in your partner's appearance. You have been together for years. Why the sudden dislike? And if you hated her appearance for years, shame on you.

Either accept her for who she is and how she looks, or move on. She has already told you her position. Trying to get her to change to suit you is disrespectful. Are you not hearing her when she says to stop and back off on this issue?


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

k I get what you're saying, but sometimes, people just aren't good at applying makeup and doing hair. Fashion sense can also be a lacking skill for many people. 

I am one of those women. 

I mean, I wear bb cream, concealer, mascara, eye shadow and eyeliner (foundation if I'm going out because I have malasma under my eyes). I also flat iron my hair after washing it every other day. It isn't fancy at all and I am usually just wearing a shimmer shadow because I can't even start to do fancy stuff with it. I end up looking like a downtown hooker. 

That's it. I wear jeans and t shirts, yoga pants and tanks. 

I can't contour. I can't hardly walk in heels. I wear dresses, but the kind that look good with cute little flats or sandals. I attempted to curl my hair a few times, but omg...I looked like a fluffy cabbage patch kid. It just wasn't happening. 

I'm 32 years old. I had a mother that beat the ever living crap out of me several days out of the week, every week. My father wasn't there, he bailed when I was 5 only to return when I was 15 out of obligation. We had no where else to live. I could tell we weren't wanted there...mainly because my step mother told me so. You mentioned your fiance had a bad upbringing. Just so you know, this leads to huge amounts of insecurity and wanting to be accepted (though I'm sure you figure this out).

In those 32 years, I have tried to be more "girly". It doesn't work. Stuff like that can be learned, I guess over time...but most of the time, if we haven't got the hang of it by now, it's not going to happen. 

I do watch tutorials by the way (I LOVE me some Jacklyn hill). Doesn't matter how much she tells me how to do it, I still cannot replicate it. Girl looks good though! 

I guess my point is, this is something you cannot change about her. It is usually something you're good at, or you're not. If you can't accept this about her, it is time to move on. You're not married yet. It would be better sooner rather than later. 

OR if you are in love with her and you really want it to work, you will have to have that uncomfortable conversation with her to see if it's something she is open to working on more. If she isn't, you have your answer anyway.

What attracted you to her in the first place? You've been with her for 4 years (or more?) If she always looks terrible, how did you two end up together?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Hm. OK better picture. NO rockstar - check. No slovenly wife - check.

You don't give us much to work with. Is she in counseling for her esteem issues? If not, can you suggest it by saying something like "I want you to see yourself the same way I do". 

And if no one has showed her, I actually bet no one has told her she looks a little messy. For example, there is a friend of my daughters. Lovely girl, loves watching makeup tutorials, etc. Does her whole face very lovely, subtle... she has naturally thick brows and really all she needs is to put a touch of brow gel on them (she keeps them plucked as they are bushy and huge if not). But instead she uses this fancy Sephora (OK yeah, that's fancy to me - it didn't come from a drug store) brow marker and you can SEE she has this brown marker eyebrow that extends anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" ABOVE her actual brow. When she gets really crazy her brows dominate her whole face to the point of ridiculousness. I pulled my daughter aside and asked her "have you told [friend] that she's going a bit overboard on her brows?" and she said "We all think it - everyone laughs at her behind her back but no one can bring themselves to tell her so I"m going to offer to let us do each other's makeup one day so I can show her how I do mine"

My point is, no, often even good friends are too afraid of hurting feelings to dare tell them they are applying lipstick like a clown or brow pencil like Groucho Marx.

Are there some events you could take her to - fundraisers, parties - that warrant treating her to hair and makeup before dressing to attend? Maybe she could learn from that? I know in my city there are formal fundraisers, theme parties for a cause, adult second chance prom parties, etc. 

Aside from that, your only choice is to stop her, grab a tissue and say "hold on hon, your lipstick is smeared" and fix it yourself. Perhaps followed up by "now you're an 11 instead of a 10!" or some other such bolstering comment.

Good luck.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

OP, if your GF (God forbid) had cancer, was undergoing chemo and her hair was messed up, how would you react and what would you do? Would you be "embarrassed" about her appearance or would you just love her? If you would be embarrassed and try to fix her appearance FOR YOUR SAKE, then you need to GET OUT NOW! 

So, would you give her a pass on this if there was a medical cause?

Perhaps she has an emotional or mental issue that prevents her from doing what you want. Does GF get the same pass or do you discount those (emotional or mental) factors as not legitimate reasons. 

BTW, if you ever say to her "now you're an 11 instead of a 10!", you rightfully need to be thrown out of the house by her.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

Some very thoughtful replies, folks. Thanks. I'm limited with lack of time and only a phone, but I wanted to say SOMETHING. The point is well taken that of COURSE we would understand a medical issue and so a mental issue shiuld be given the same respect. It's definitely sonething to handle with kid gloves. I do my best to be positive, and also to not make a big deal about it. In anonymity, I can more freely express how I feel inside because of it. This is something we MUST carefully work with together. Ending the relationship certainly isn't an option for me. Not because I am blind, but because there are simply too many other great and rare things. Sure, some poster initially mentioned something I wrote a few years back. Whatever, consider that I am not even going back to read whatever I wrote. I don't need to. I haven't been on here in a VERY long time. What I DO remember is having some struggles early on, mixed with even MORE great things. What I DO remember is getting some great advice at that time. As a result, I turned here again for a little help with a very different kind of peoblem. Once again, good advice is what I am given. Anything other than good advice is only due to my poor and rapid writing. And one poster hit the nail on the head. I really do want her to see herself the way I see her. That same poster eas spot on about her past lack of experience, or role models to guide. Anyway, you folks are taking the time and effort to reply. I just want to make it clear that I am closely reading. Thanks for the help.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

EnjoliWoman said:


> For example, there is a friend of my daughters. Lovely girl, loves watching makeup tutorials, etc. Does her whole face very lovely, subtle... she has naturally thick brows and really all she needs is to put a touch of brow gel on them (she keeps them plucked as they are bushy and huge if not). But instead she uses this fancy Sephora (OK yeah, that's fancy to me - it didn't come from a drug store) brow marker and you can SEE she has this brown marker eyebrow that extends anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" ABOVE her actual brow. When she gets really crazy her brows dominate her whole face to the point of ridiculousness. I pulled my daughter aside and asked her "have you told [friend] that she's going a bit overboard on her brows?" and she said "We all think it - everyone laughs at her behind her back but no one can bring themselves to tell her so I"m going to *offer to let us do each other's makeup one day so I can show her how I do mine*"
> 
> My point is, no, often even good friends are too afraid of hurting feelings to dare tell them they are applying lipstick like a clown or brow pencil like Groucho Marx.
> 
> ...


Here's your best bet, I think. Make it into a sensual thing, doing her makeup for her, tell her you'd love to try it and to know what she thinks. If she loves the results, she'll ask for help replicating them. If she doesn't feel 'herself' then she's just a Mimi, one of those women who has no understanding of what looks good and what doesn't.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Here's your best bet, I think. Make it into a sensual thing, doing her makeup for her, tell her you'd love to try it and to know what she thinks. If she loves the results, she'll ask for help replicating them. If she doesn't feel 'herself' then she's just a Mimi, one of those women who has no understanding of what looks good and what doesn't.


I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if my boyfriend wanted us to do each other's makeup. I think I would find that not just extremely odd, but also sexually repellant. I'm not sure I could be sexually attracted to a guy who wanted to teach me how to do my makeup by showing me how he does his own. So, that might be a tack to pursue with some care, lest it backfire and result in lowered attraction.

OP, I think your best bet is to either accept that this is how your girlfriend is or to end the relationship. Educating your partner on how they can fix themselves is what Dr. Harley (see the book _His Needs, Her Needs_ or the Marriage Builders website) would call a Lovebuster, specifically, it's a disrespectful judgment. Trying to educate/correct your partner, particularly if they don't care to be educated on that topic, is unlikely to be either well received or successful. Clearly, your girlfriend's appearance is a problem for you. It's also clearly not something she desires to have you educate her on. Thus, the two of you would seem to be at an impasse. And, as having a partner you find attractive appears to be a strong need for you, it may simply be that this isn't the woman for you in a long-term sense.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Rowan said:


> I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if my boyfriend wanted us to do each other's makeup. I think I would find that not just extremely odd, but also sexually repellant. I'm not sure I could be sexually attracted to a guy who wanted to teach me how to do my makeup by showing me how he does his own. So, that might be a tack to pursue with some care, lest it backfire and result in lowered attraction.


True, but I figured she's probably already aware he wears makeup, and it hasn't turned her off yet!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

LoveLonely said:


> What on Earth can I do at this point?
> 
> Please help,
> 
> Thanks in Advance


Don't get married.


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