# What would you do?



## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

I originally posted this under the General Discussion section, but was advised to post it here. For those that have already read this under General section, I appreciate you responses. I am posting here as recommended to see if there are any additional thoughts.

Is this emotional infidelity, physical, infidelity, or nothing at all?
A few years ago, my wife was working at a nursing home as a nurse practitioner. In her role she commonly spoke with a male pharmacist, employed by the same company, but located at a different site. It was common for nurses and staff to call her at home after work, and for her to walk out of the room during the phone conversations, which I thought nothing of. 
Then, while at a 4th of July celebration, my wife told me about this male pharmacist that worked for the company and how they had become friends. She told me that he was Gay, and that he hated the life style. She also told me that he said he wished that he could quit the life style and he and her move away and start all over. I told her that I thought this to be inappropriate, and I did not like her talking to him. 
One night, as I was working on a report for her, she received a phone call and went outside, I became curious and went out the backdoor and around the house to hear her side of the conversation. She was laughing and talking. When she came in I asked who she was talking to and she again told me the pharmacist. I got upset and said that she should not be talking to him, and that it was wrong. She told me that she had rather talk to him than me. After an argument, I finished her report and hope that this would be the end of it. 
Then a month or so later I came home from work early to surprise my wife, son and his friend by going to the lake with them, which she had planned. When I got there she was very glad, and asked me to take the kids to the lake, as she needed to stop by her work first, then would be there asap. Disappointed that she would not be there the whole time, I took the kids to the lake, and waited for her to arrive. 3 hours later she was still not there and the beach closed. We went home, and I called my wife’s phone several times, with no answer, then after what seemed like calling 50 times, her phone was answered. A male’s voice said hello, then he it was hung up, and additional calls were not answered. I then called the nursing home and was told that no one had seen my wife in the facility, that afternoon and that they did not believe her to be there. 
A few minutes later she called me and said she was on her way home. I asked her where she had been and she said the nursing home, but when I told her that wasn’t true, she said she went to the main corporate office work pick up some medication, and had got me a gift as well. She denied that a male answered her phone, and shared nothing about what she actually did. 
She left that position a few months later, and I was glad, since I did not want her to continue to be in the environment, and was not sure if, or what went on. I do not know if this male is gay or not, and I have never met him.
In her new job she, as far as I knew, had not contact with him. Then one day my son and I was too meet her after work, and go to dinner. AS she was busy, it was common for her to be late leaving work. As time approached for her to leave, she called me and ask that I take my son on home, because she was much busier than expected, which was a big change from the conversation on the phone 30 minutes prior. 
A day or two later, I happen to look at the texts on her phone and found that this pharmacist came by where she worked about 10 minutes before she was supposed to leave. I also found that she was supposed to have met him earlier that day, but did not make the meeting, and I assume that was why he was not coming by at closing time. I do not know what they were meeting about. And, I do not know if she commonly meets with him. 
Needless to say, we had a big argument over this, and in the end, she said that it was all business, that the company (nursing home) was opening a new clinic. And, that he was meeting with her to see how to do the drug labels. I found that very strange, why a pharmacist would need to meet with a nurse practitioner on how to do drug labels, since that is in his arena, not hers. 
After a lengthy argument, we finally moved forward, and I hope that she would no longer continue this friendship. I also looked at her phone periodically, and have found not texts between them. She does not have his name stored, but I did remember the number he texts her from before. 
She later told me that she was friends with him, because they both disliked the owner of the nursing home company. I told her I though it strange if they both disliked hi, that they would be meeting to start a clinic in which the person they both do not like would own. 
Now, last week, which has been about 4 months since she met with him at her work, when we were supposed to be going to dinner, I was looking at her phone. We had both just upgraded our phones, and I was merely trying to adjust some settings while she was seeing a patient. She received a new message while I was looking at her phone, which was from the pharmacist. The content of the message came across the screen without me actually having to open it. It read “Don’t waste my $70 dollars!!! Schedule an appointment at European Body Works.” When she came back and I gave her back her phone, I told her that I read the message as it came across the screen. I knew it to be his number, which she does not realize that I knew who sent the message. She read the message but made no commit. Two days later I asked her what the message was about. She responded that someone had bought her a gift certificate, then hesitated, and told me it was the pharmacist. She then went on that I had not right to get mad, and that people buy her gift certificates all the time. 
I bit my lip, and spent much time in prayer, not know what to say or do at this point. Finally, this past Saturday morning I told her that I found this relationship to be totally inappropriate, and that it was inappropriate for him to buy and for her to accept a gift certificate from this man. She told me that he gave it to her for helping him with the labels, and that she gets gift certificates from people often. I told her that yes, she has got gift certificates before, but that she has always told me about them. Yet this gift certificate, for a spa, which I feel myself in an intimate type gift certificate was kept secret from me. I told her that it is wrong, and extremely inappropriate. We did not argue, which was good. But she made no promises that she would not continue to talk with, meet, or text this man. 
Now, I apologize for the long story, but I am confused, worried, upset sad and hurt. Am I wrong in feeling this? IF so, please tell me. If I have a friend, I make sure my wife meets him, and I never have a female close friend. I have never met him, and he might very well be gay, but I am confused. What should I do? Am I wrong for thinking this is an inappropriate friendship? Is this emotional infidelity? Should I ignore it and continue as normal?


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Like I said in your other thread stick a var in her car and a few in the house.
Way too many red flags so it is time to do something about it.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Here read this link
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html
And get this book
http://www.amazon.com/Married-Man-L...&sr=1-1&keywords=married+mans+sex+life+primer


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He isn't gay, your wife is being a little lamb, happily skipping to the slaughter.

She needs a reality check.

Could you hire a PI to background check him?

In the UK The Royal Pharmaceutical Society would take a dim view of a pharmacist who behaves like him.

The State Board would probably feel the same, he needs to be reported and CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know is also a useful option for him.


----------



## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

worried, the first thing you need to know is there's virtually no chance the pharmacist is gay. It's one of those things wayward wives say to make you let your guard down. It's similar to "oh, he's not very good-looking" or "I'm not attracted to him at all." 

If I'm betting money here, I say it's gone physical by now. I'm sorry, but that's what it looks like. There's a reason those blocks of time where she probably wasn't doing what she said she was are making your inner red flags go up. Always trust your gut feeling.

The lack of texts mean they're using some kind of app on their phone that doesn't show up. You need to become James Bond and find out more information. And stop confronting her with every piece of info you get. You've already interrogated her too much and now she's hiding it better. 

Accumulate your evidence so you get a clearer picture. Then come back here with what you've found and you'll get very good advice from those who've been in your shoes and know what works and what doesn't.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> .
> Now, I apologize for the long story, but I am confused, worried, upset sad and hurt. Am I wrong in feeling this? IF so, please tell me. If I have a friend, I make sure my wife meets him, and I never have a female close friend. I have never met him, and he might very well be gay, but I am confused. What should I do? Am I wrong for thinking this is an inappropriate friendship? Is this emotional infidelity? Should I ignore it and continue as normal?


No apologies needed. Get it out here on the forums. Your feelings(gut) are not wrong. She is most definitely in EA. Her needs are being met by a "gay" man. I'm betting he is not gay. It is a way to throw you off the scent by stating he is gay. If she has not introduced you then she is hiding something. Not a good activity when married. If she is hiding it then it is wrong. 

You need to keep investigating quietly. Do not show your hand until proof positive. 

Do not under any circumstances ignore this. She is up to something and your gut is telling you so. Not to mention her actions and activities are suspect.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I think you already know what's going on.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Denial is a protective mechanism used until we are mentally healthy to deal with our problems.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Fear is the artificial shell we imprison ourself.

You could hire a P.i.

You could put a voice recorder in her car, gps tracking, or put the recorder around the area she usually talks in.

You could be proactive and find out.

But fear is holding you back.

Your image of your family would be shattered, and then as the pieces came crashing down, you would try unrealistically to put it back together like it never happened.

The reason why your asking us because you can't tell yourself.

But many go through this.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Sorry bro. Too many red flags to be innocent. She's cheating.
You will get lots of help here to get thru this. I was cheated on by my wife two years ago and I am just fine now. You will be to.


----------



## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

worried1234 said:


> I originally posted this under the General Discussion section, but was advised to post it here. For those that have already read this under General section, I appreciate you responses. I am posting here as recommended to see if there are any additional thoughts.
> 
> Is this emotional infidelity, physical, infidelity, or nothing at all?
> A few years ago, my wife was working at a nursing home as a nurse practitioner. In her role she commonly spoke with a male pharmacist, employed by the same company, but located at a different site. It was common for nurses and staff to call her at home after work, and for her to walk out of the room during the phone conversations, which *I thought nothing of. *
> ...


Dear worried1234,

As others have indicated, you have every reason to worry. Moreover, you need to uncover exactly what is going on between your wife and the pharmacist. Others here will help you with that task.

What I would like to address is: (1) the ineffectiveness of your reaction as your wife formed an inappropriate relationship with another man; (2) the implications of this for the future of your marriage; and (3) what you need to do about it.

Take a look at the parts of your original post that I have bolded. As your their relationship blossomed, developed and likely became physical, you first ignored it, then complained about it, then got upset about it, then _"hoped"_ it would stop, then tried to convince her that is was inappropriate, then bit your lip and _"prayed"_ about it, then complained about it even more strenuously, and finally came here asking for help, admitting that you are _"confused, worried, upset sad and hurt."_ But, at no point in time did you tell her to end the relationship it or inform her what would be the consequence if she continued it.

It would appear that you are another victim of the _'loss of cojones'_ epidemic that has been sweeping through the male population of the Western world for the past few decades. As such, you have lost the ability to recognize the signs of female infidelity and you do not have the capacity to stand up to your wife, tell her what you expect from her and take effective action when she ignores you. Unless you correct this, you will either lose your marriage or become a prisoner within it.

Here are a few things for you to think about as you decide how you should respond to your wife's infidelity (and make no mistake, whether your wife and the pharmacist have physically _'consummated'_ their illicit relationship or not, she has broken her marriage vow to _'forsake all others'_):

- Your wife has repeatedly ignored your entreaties to stop the relationship, intentionally deceived and even flat out lied to you about it, and chosen one more than one occasion to spend time with the pharmacist rather than with her husband and children. By all appearances, he is now the most important thing in her life and you and even her children are of secondary importance.

- What his means is that she has her respect for you, and no marriage can survive for long if the wife does not respect her husband. If you do not regain her respect, and soon, your marriage is doomed.

- You will not regain your wife's respect by continuing to behave as a confused, whiny, ineffectual man. Women univerally prefer strong men to weaklings and self-confident men to milquetoasts. You need to decide what you expect from her, tell this and then give her consequences if she fails to satisfy you. Bear in mind, however, that the timing of this is very important. If you confront her before you know how far their affair has progressed, she will likely continue to deny doing anything wrong and you will then either have to act on imperfect information or back down once again.

- There is a limit to how long you can let your wife get away with this and how many times you can do nothing about it. Eventually, her loss of respect will turn to loathing and, at that point, nothing you do will ever win back her heart.

There are numerous threads on TAM/CWI that started out like yours. Most of them ended badly. In the ones that didn't, at some point the husband began to stand up for himself and hold his wife accountable for stepping outside the marriage. I am not aware of any marriage that survived in which the husband begged his wife to stop cheating, used reason to convince her to stop it or tried to _'nice'_ her out of it.

It's up to you to decide how you want your thread to end and then to do what you need to do to get the desired outcome.

Good luck.


P.S.: Get yourself a copy of Athol Kay's book, _"Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011."_ It describes the kinds of behavior that enable men how to win and hold on to the affection of women.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Your wife is cheating on you. Yes, it's an emotional affair. Physical affair? It's possible...and very likely, since she meets him secretly for periods of time that are unaccounted for.

You have been *rugsweeping* the affair since it started, and she's been *gaslighting* you every step of the way.

You have to decide TODAY what you are willing to put up with.


----------



## whatUknow (Aug 17, 2013)

It might be all of the above, EA, PA, friendship. You know what is going on, you just need to come to terms with it and decide what it is that you want to do, I would recommend the Married mans sex life primer 2011. 

Listen to your instincts.


----------



## Hammond_B3 (Oct 31, 2014)

Worried1234, I feel for you. I'm in a somewhat similar circumstance. My wife has been texting, emailing and talking with a "guy friend" for a long time and makes light of it even though she knows it bothers me. For you she says he's gay and for me it is, "He's a devout Catholic and suffers from ED." It bugs the $h!t out of me that she would know he has ED. That's not the sort of thing marrieds "friends" should be sharing with each other. After some investigation I find the guy subscribes to multiple porn sites where the women look like and are built just like my wife and he also subscribes to several adult dating sites. There's a lot more to my story, but I won't go into it because this post is about you. All I will say is that in my scenario I handled everything completely wrong. You will get a lot of advise on TAM, some helpful and some not. Just think it through before taking action. You mentioned praying about it, so I will also keep your situation in my prayers as well.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, yes... please get tested for STDs/HIV.


----------



## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

worried1234 said:


> 3 hours later she was still not there and the beach closed. We went home, and I called my wife’s phone several times, with no answer, then after what seemed like calling 50 times, her phone was answered. *A male’s voice said hello*, then he it was hung up, and additional calls were not answered. I then called the nursing home and was told that no one had seen my wife in the facility, that afternoon and that they did not believe her to be there.
> A few minutes later she called me and said she was on her way home. I asked her where she had been and she said the nursing home, but when I told her that wasn’t true, she said she went to the main corporate office work pick up some medication, and had got me a gift as well. *She denied that a male answered her phone*, and shared nothing about what she actually did.


How on earth can you she deny what YOU KNOW you heard? How can you accept what she says? Or that she shared 'nothing about what she actually did'?

The worst thing you can think of happened that day. Be sure of that, at least.


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

how would she feel if you had a lover on the side?

Would she stay with you?


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

The man is not gay and is usually used as one of the excuses so you don’t suspect anything when she is talking to him along with Im just helping him with a relationship problem or hearing don’t worry he isn’t my type. Given the length of time this has gone on and the missed family meetings etc this has most likely gone physical.

It isn’t unusual at all for WS to not store the phone number or if they do many times its under a false name to divert attention. In almost every case where a spouse starts delfecting back onto you that you have no right to get mad about a “gift” or checking a persons phone for messages they are guilty of something. Since she knows you saw the text don’t be surprised if she doesn’t start guarding her phone and never letting it out of her sight.

She needs a reality check and you need a reality check. Take a step back and see what is really going on here. Your letting your emotional heart dictate your rational brain. She is having an affair and you know it deep down. The faster you blow this up the better chance you will have of saving your marriage if that is what you wish.

Until you start getting the truth and the OM is out of the picture your fighting a losing battle. You wont get the truth from her and the more you ask the more secretive she will get. She feels she has nothing at risk here as you have not held her accountable for her actions. She has the best of both worlds. Its time to start holding her accountable.


----------



## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

worried1234, you might benefit from reading Propwash72's thread (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/228050-help-midlife-crisis-spouse.html) and, in particular, his post #152 (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/10835986-post152.html).


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Yep, my Ex WW used the following to throw me off the trail as to her affair partners:

- Eww, he is ugly. Not my type.
- He is like a brother/father/uncle to me. That would be gross. 
- He is gay

And sadly yes, she had enough affair partners that some of these were used more than once. The common thread is they are used to minimize your suspicion of the possibility she would sleep with him. When they spend that much energy trying to convince you they wouldn't sleep with them, but seem to have no concern that it worries you. Yeah, that's a problem.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Of course, he might have told her he was gay to allay her suspicions of him.

Or to set her a challenge, "Well, I am gay, but why don't you try to 'turn me straight?'

Oldest trick in the book.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Consider this for a moment. Your wife loves you, cares about you more than anything in the world. Why are you not worth more to her than a friendship with a gay pharmacist? She says it's nothing but the guy is ready to change sides for her? Abandon his entire lifestyle for her and this is nothing? Come on man, you know that smell, fishy. If he is really gay and he's telling her he wants to flip the dial to FM then she is at least in an EA. From the events you describe however, I would bet a substantial amount it has gone physical. Gather your intel and prepare yourself for what you may find. Hang tough and let us help if we can.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

How can you be in such denial? How would she feel if the roles were reversed? The fact that she said she would rather be talking to him than you said it all at the beginning. Your wife is playing you for a fool and seriously thinks you are a moron and has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Enough is enough!


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

tulsy said:


> Your wife is cheating on you. Yes, it's an emotional affair. Physical affair? It's possible...and very likely, since she meets him secretly for periods of time that are unaccounted for.
> 
> You have been *rugsweeping* the affair since it started, and she's been *gaslighting* you every step of the way.
> 
> You have to decide TODAY what you are willing to put up with.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Yup, he's been rugsweeping this affair and eating up all the gaslighting. She continues to do this because he backs down EVERY SINGLE TIME.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Acoa said:


> Yep, my Ex WW used the following to throw me off the trail as to her affair partners:
> 
> - Eww, he is ugly. Not my type.
> - He is like a brother/father/uncle to me. That would be gross.
> - He is gay


Mine also used

- he's married.

Yeah, as if that stopped her.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Not only is this guy NOT gay, he's most likely been having sex with your wife.

And as far as I can see will continue to, because you've pretty much done nothing to stop them from doing it.

What I would do, or should I say have done, was told her that anymore contact with this guy and I'm filing for D.

She's gotten away with it so long, because you've alowed it.

Get an STD test. Tell her that she needs to PASS an STD test before you'll have sex with here again.


Like babe's in the woods....


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Time for you to bring the hammer down on this. You can't nice your way out of this and she need to know that her husband has a back bone and has taken his last step backwards and the sooner you let her know that this ends now or she's going to have a bigger problem on her hands and she wont like it one bit so stop waiting around and put it on the table where she understands what's at stake.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I will repeat what I said in your other post:



manfromlamancha said:


> OK here are my observations:
> 
> 
> You have every right to be worried. She has been (and is) behaving very inappropriately. Crossing boundaries all the time.
> ...


----------



## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Rather talk to him than you?!! I'm very sorry to say that she's planning her exit. She's blowing smoke up your a$$ at every turn. You're losing her, my friend, if you haven't already. Sorry, but I think you should prepare for the worst. Good luck. If her mind and body have already moved on, maybe this is for the best.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bryanp said:


> How can you be in such denial? How would she feel if the roles were reversed? The fact that she said she would rather be talking to him than you said it all at the beginning. Your wife is playing you for a fool and seriously thinks you are a moron and has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Enough is enough!


Maybe he writes for literotica?
I hope he isn't real because this is a trainwreck.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

So she abandons you and the kids at the beach , and goes off to be with her affair partner.

The only reason why you are here is because you want us to tell you differently, or you want to make her love you again.

You probably want answers why me, and why doesn't she love me like I love her?

Not going to happen.

You being weak is validating her choice to validate her to seek what she perceive as a real man.

Even now, you lack courage and live in denial.

Your proving her point.

You can'taccept reality and the situation.

The only way for you to move forward is to detach, and take control of your life.

We can only suggest you change you, because you have no power over her, none.

Your only real power is to walk away, or deal consequences for those who cross your boundaries.

It is like your a country being invaded and you standing by , crying while it happens.

Your opponent , your wife, doesn't respect you.


----------



## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Read MMSLP now.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Q tip said:


> Read MMSLP now.


If not sooner.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm done I wish him well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Just remember folks, when you're betrayed by the one person that's supposed to have your back for life, it is hard to accept. Its unbelievable as a matter of fact.

Add to that the progressive society we find ourselves in requires us to not hold people responsible for their actions. It also empowers people to be selfish in their pursuit of their own happiness and everyone else doesn't really matter.

Most all of us were in denial. Its human to trust and believe our spouse.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

These type of threads make me wonder. Initial post and gone. If I was in this type of situation I would continually refresh my screen in hopes of some help, but that's just me.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Thound said:


> These type of threads make me wonder. Initial post and gone. If I was in this type of situation I would continually refresh my screen in hopes of some help, but that's just me.


Maybe the OP has writers block...


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Maybe the OP has writers block...


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Maybe the OP has writers block...


As a joke, he has been cck blocked so often that the blood no longer flows to the correct head.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

It's hard to hear the truth, too hard for some I guess.


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Deleted


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Damn tapatalk app


----------

