# My marriage is headed for divorce if I can't figure out our sex life. Wife suggested opening up marriage, now I'm completely broken.



## throwawaycatalina (2 mo ago)

I've (39m) been ugly crying like a baby for two hours straight, my head is pounding. My wife (37f) and i are going through a lot right now. I've tried to improve our marriage by compartmentalizing our issues, talking about them and coming up with ways to improve. While we were on the subject of sex, she just asked me "what I thought about having sex with other people since nothing you are trying is working." It felt like a spear through my heart. Quick background: We got married young (19/21) and had two kids pretty fast and we really killed it at the parenting game. I was a boy scout leader and football coach, and my wife was PTA president and girl scout leader, etc etc. Things haven't been all perfect of course. We've had our huge fights, and fair share of f*** ups (nothing major like infidelity). The past year has been rough. Finances are bad. Our teenagers are definitely not going easy on us. My mom is dying of stage 4 cancer. My biggest client has cut my hours in half, twice. The family business is hurting. My wife feels lost now that kids don't need her as much. WHEW. So there's a lot of fear and stress right now. I wish I had a partner that would say "I'll love you no matter what, we'll get through this, we'll always have each other." But the best I get is "You know I'll always love you, but I can't continue living like this."

For most of our marriage, sex was not a significant part of our relationship. Once a week for a majority of it. When she gained 50lbs during the "baby years" (obesity runs in her family) we would go months without sex. I would constantly remind her how beautiful I thought she was and I would love her no matter what. We never used toys, tried fetishes/fantasies, or were sexually explorative at all. Vanilla sex life for sure. It's also worth noting that we aren't a jealous couple. I'm ok with her calling her friends "lovers". She goes out to parties and clubs regularly, and I go with her a lot or have my musician friends over to my home studio. About 5 years ago after a fight, she just up and took off her ring and said it was uncomfortable and she hates the idea of diamonds/rings, they get in the way of her profession, it's always breaking, etc. I've suggested a tattoo or wearing it around her neck but I admittedly haven't pressed the issue and now so much time has passed it feels like I missed my chance. I'm sure you can see where this is going. I feel like she's slowly pressed (and I've allowed) the boundries to go this far where now the next step seems to be talking about opening our marriage. I very plainly told her that it's a deal breaker for me. If my spouse can't work with what I have, and try to make things better between us, then I don't want to be in that relationship. Full stop. She understood, and reiterated something like "you know this is just me talking, trying to see what might work/what wouldn't, etc. I don't have any intentions currently to find sex outside our marriage" She also said "It works for some couples, and especially those that enjoy other aspects of the marriage but they either changed or just can't satisfy each other." My brain is a blended mush pile but I say something like "Call me a sexist or toxic male or whatever, but I aboslutely could not be happy in a marriage where my wife is out having sex with another dude. That's just how I am, and I got no problem with others if that works for them."

She has said that 1. I shoot too quickly 2. I don't initiate enough and 3. I "lost the moves that turn her on." She hates initiating but at least I've gotten her to DO THAT AT ALL because before she wouldn't even try and just expected me to. As someone with a medium sex drive I knew initiating wouldn't be a problem, as even with the ****storm that is my life right now, I am ready to go more than her, that's no question. But she doesn't like quickies, only likes sex in our locked bedroom, and not when kids are awake, etc etc blah blah. OK that just cuts down 80% of my shots, but ok fine... I thought things were going well, 3 times in one week, but I had yet to make her cum. So I decided to surprise her with some sex shop toys. I even got numbing cream to make me last longer, (spoiler alert: it didn't work as well as I'd hoped)

Here's what usually happens. Start with some flirting. Then some touching and rubbing. I'll usually finger her to get her started and wait for her to pull me on top. Dirty talking, exploring more of her body, etc. We go for 5-7 minutes usually missionary or we'll switch it up once or twice during. I always feel the buildup with her and try to read her body language as we go... I'll ask/warn/stall reach climax and at some point I'll cum and I can stay hard after orgasm so keep going, she knows when I cum and she'll lose interest and say she's "not feeling it now", and I'll say "Well, let's try a new position? Throw in a toy?" at which point she says "I'm already over it now." I guess I'm just bad at faking? (Trust me, I try!)

I have constantly said "you need to get more comfortable with communicating. TELLING me what turns you on. Because I'm not a mind reader." And she says "See, THAT is a turn off. All I know is that whatever you're trying isn't working." I may have issues "shooting my load too fast" but I am NOT a selfish lover and love the taste of her down there. Unfortunately she hates oral. OK, I play the piano and have virtuouso fingers to work with - why don't you let me finger you longer until you're close to climax? "I get bored of fingering". I literally bought toys, and am DOWN for anything you guys. But she just tells me "I don't know what to say, I just know what works and what doesn't" and I find this VERY... I don't know. Immature? Selfish?

So that's it in as considely written words as I could muster. Any help, comments, or just a nice hello right now would be appreciated because I really am in a bad spot.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Hi @throwawaycatalina , welcome to TAM. 
Yeah. I'm glad you told her the open marriage is a deal breaker. It would be for me as well. Have you considered a sex therapist ?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If she is thinking of going elsewhere for sex then sadly it's hard to see how this will work. She doesn't seem to be committed to the marriage 100% 
You say she goes to bars a lot without you. Do you trust her at these places? 

First thing to do may be to get some Marriage Counselling. Or as has been suggested above see a sex therapist. 

Don't ever agree to an open marriage. That will simply mess things up even more.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Wow talk about Black Friday indeed. Let’s break this down into its base form. Get all the details about the bedroom and your job out of your head for one second and let’s simplify.

Marriage is a union of trust, loyalty, and respect. Your wife has taken off her ring and wants an open marriage. As far as I’m concerned there is no marriage left.

Here is a very common but true phrase you will hear often around these parts: The person who cares the least holds all the power. Your wife cares the least so she holds all the power in this situation. You are unable to offer anything that she is interested in so it’s like negotiating with someone who doesn’t even care.

The open relationship dialogue often comes up when a person is already cheating and they are attempting to get “permission”.

Self Respect: Why tolerate any of this bullchit to begin with ? People get what they put up with.


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## throwawaycatalina (2 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> Hi @throwawaycatalina , welcome to TAM.
> Yeah. I'm glad you told her the open marriage is a deal breaker. It would be for me as well. Have you considered a sex therapist ?


I dragged her to a therapist years ago and had a bad experience. It kinda solidified her stance - She has said many times that she doesn't believe in therapy. I, however, was seeing a therapist once a week up until 6 months ago. I should probably get back with her. I think a sex therapist is a great idea and would open her eyes to a lot of issues. She has stated that "maybe all this is just me and I've changed and I need to be medicated" which just seems dramatic, with a pinch of truth. She constantly loses her temper with the kids. Thanks for your response


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

throwawaycatalina said:


> I've (39m) been ugly crying like a baby for two hours straight, my head is pounding. My wife (37f) and i are going through a lot right now. I've tried to improve our marriage by compartmentalizing our issues, talking about them and coming up with ways to improve. While we were on the subject of sex, she just asked me "what I thought about having sex with other people since nothing you are trying is working." It felt like a spear through my heart. Quick background: We got married young (19/21) and had two kids pretty fast and we really killed it at the parenting game. I was a boy scout leader and football coach, and my wife was PTA president and girl scout leader, etc etc. Things haven't been all perfect of course. We've had our huge fights, and fair share of f*** ups (nothing major like infidelity). The past year has been rough. Finances are bad. Our teenagers are definitely not going easy on us. My mom is dying of stage 4 cancer. My biggest client has cut my hours in half, twice. The family business is hurting. My wife feels lost now that kids don't need her as much. WHEW. So there's a lot of fear and stress right now. I wish I had a partner that would say "I'll love you no matter what, we'll get through this, we'll always have each other." But the best I get is "You know I'll always love you, but I can't continue living like this."
> 
> For most of our marriage, sex was not a significant part of our relationship. Once a week for a majority of it. When she gained 50lbs during the "baby years" (obesity runs in her family) we would go months without sex. I would constantly remind her how beautiful I thought she was and I would love her no matter what. We never used toys, tried fetishes/fantasies, or were sexually explorative at all. Vanilla sex life for sure. It's also worth noting that we aren't a jealous couple. I'm ok with her calling her friends "lovers". She goes out to parties and clubs regularly, and I go with her a lot or have my musician friends over to my home studio. About 5 years ago after a fight, she just up and took off her ring and said it was uncomfortable and she hates the idea of diamonds/rings, they get in the way of her profession, it's always breaking, etc. I've suggested a tattoo or wearing it around her neck but I admittedly haven't pressed the issue and now so much time has passed it feels like I missed my chance. I'm sure you can see where this is going. I feel like she's slowly pressed (and I've allowed) the boundries to go this far where now the next step seems to be talking about opening our marriage. I very plainly told her that it's a deal breaker for me. If my spouse can't work with what I have, and try to make things better between us, then I don't want to be in that relationship. Full stop. She understood, and reiterated something like "you know this is just me talking, trying to see what might work/what wouldn't, etc. I don't have any intentions currently to find sex outside our marriage" She also said "It works for some couples, and especially those that enjoy other aspects of the marriage but they either changed or just can't satisfy each other." My brain is a blended mush pile but I say something like "Call me a sexist or toxic male or whatever, but I aboslutely could not be happy in a marriage where my wife is out having sex with another dude. That's just how I am, and I got no problem with others if that works for them."
> 
> ...


Your marriage sounds like a car crash.
Whatever you do, *DO NOT AGREE TO AN OPEN MARRIAGE*, repeat, *DO NOT AGREE TO AN OPEN MARRIAGE.*
On reading your post it seems likely your wife is a cheater waiting to happen, or has cheated or is already cheating.
Yes, you have a problem and I can only suggest you keep a sharp eye on her activities and warn your wife that if you discover her cheating than you`re done.
Get all this under control, like yesterday, before the inevitable happens.


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## throwawaycatalina (2 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> If she is thinking of going elsewhere for sex then sadly it's hard to see how this will work. She doesn't seem to be committed to the marriage 100%
> You say she goes to bars a lot without you. Do you trust her at these places?
> 
> First thing to do may be to get some Marriage Counselling. Or as has been suggested above see a sex therapist.
> ...


Thank you for your response. Up until this past year, yes I've trusted her 100%. She has never given me a reason to distrust her. But something changed somewhere a year or two ago. Taking off the ring, and gaurding her social media and the sex just felt or seemed different, like I was able to satisfy her before and now I'm struggling like I'm feeling insecure, or I'm doing something wrong. She also has reacted very strangely to me just asking her straight up "Have you hooked up with another guy/cheated on me?" and she'd say "Yeah, lokicatalina, totally. I've got a new boyfriend and we're hooking up all the time.. " and when I tell her that's f*** up, why can't you just be serious, she denies it with a tone of emotion of resentment "No, lokicatalina, I'm not cheating on you. There, happy?" I don't know how much of it is her being unhappy and how much of it is just her personality. My gut tells me she's keeping something from me, but she is adamant that if she wanted to cheat/didn't love me, etc - she would tell me.


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## throwawaycatalina (2 mo ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> Your marriage sounds like a car crash.
> Whatever you do, *DO NOT AGREE TO AN OPEN MARRIAGE*, repeat, *DO NOT AGREE TO AN OPEN MARRIAGE.*
> On reading your post it seems likely your wife is a cheater waiting to happen, or has cheated or is already cheating.
> Yes, you have a problem and I can only suggest you keep a sharp eye on her activities and warn your wife that if you discover her cheating than you`re done.
> Get all this under control, like yesterday, before the inevitable happens.


 I would never. Whats scary is she said we've discussed it in the past and I said "I (as in ME) would have rules like I would want to know who you're having sex with." She said/ followed with a "Which I thought was weird, like, who the hell would you want to know that?" I totally lost it at this point. I don't remember that conversation. At all. And while I have bad memory, it IS possible - I could see saying something like that to try and figure out if she's already cheating and get a name? I don't know. I feel like I would remember that. Just a note - It _would _be very unusual for my wife to lie - I've had problems with lieing in the past (not infidelity) so she has taken a very staunch / righteous path when it comes to the truth- that she would never lie, and that if she was going to cheat I would know well in advance."


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## throwawaycatalina (2 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Wow talk about Black Friday indeed. Let’s break this down into its base form. Get all the details about the bedroom and your job out of your head for one second and let’s simplify.
> 
> Marriage is a union of trust, loyalty, and respect. Your wife has taken off her ring and wants an open marriage. As far as I’m concerned there is no marriage left.
> 
> ...


Appreciate your response. It's been such a slow process of me making concessions and losing myself in the process. It started with social media - she thinks those "happy wife happy hubby" posts are cringe/vomit. So I slowly got cut out of her social media. Which makes me feel unappreciated and disrespected. No anniversary post, valentines day post, etc. I'm not excluded entirely, but ANYTHING that would display us as husband and wife is MIA. Whatever, I'm not even on social media and thirsty guys can be useful. Then the ring issue. Ok, you're a hairdresser and homemaker and it gets in the way all the time. (She won't get a tattoo because she now feels like we don't need a ring to display our commitment to each other) Now she's saying she's unhappy with many facets of our marriage, one of them being our sex life. Then she brings up opening up the marriage.

And all I can think about is the huge stretch of years I got very little sex from her when she was self-concious and overweight... because growing old with my partner was /is more important than getting my **** wet. I guess the feeling isn't reciprocated.

I like that view on power. I have thought about it that I should just tell her if she cheats we're done and then get on with my life. Take a step back from being so hyper-focused on "saving the marriage" and Focus on improving MYSELF and if she's so unhappy then she can move out, draft up the divorce, etc.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

[QUOTE="throwawaycatalina, post: 20661514, membe

I like that view on power. I have thought about it that I should just tell her if she cheats we're done and then get on with my life. Take a step back from being so hyper-focused on "saving the marriage" and Focus on improving MYSELF and if she's so unhappy then she can move out, draft up the divorce, etc.
[/QUOTE]

That sounds like an excellent plan.

Read MMSLP, get fit and up your sex rank and stop chasing your wife.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Your wife sounds like a poor marriage partner, and very selfish.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

Tell your wife that you expect her to be honest about everything before opening up (record your conversation, then she won't deny it)

1) do you have relationship?

2) How many people have you been with?

3) When did you start having a relationship? (I believe it was out when the rings came out)

these questions are general and add that you will want to verify their answers on a polygraph

she will tell you something.

you will decide whether to go to a lawyer or an open relationship


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Keep in mind your wife blatantly shows and tells you that she isn’t interested in sex with you …. But wants to screw other people.

From what I gather it actually sounds like you may believe you have some responsibility inher saying this due to your performance. Be aware that this IS TOTAL BULLCHIT AND A COMPLETE LIE !!!! You are NOT responsible for this.

Never accept or give yourself away to someone that doesn’t put YOU first. Being a second class citizen in your own marriage is not actually a marriage.


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## throwawaycatalina (2 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Keep in mind your wife blatantly shows and tells you that she isn’t interested in sex with you …. But wants to screw other people.
> 
> The part I don’t believe that you recognize here is that from what I gather it actually sounds like you may believe you have some responsibility inher saying this due to your performance. Be aware that this IS TOTAL BULLCHIT AND A COMPLETE LIE !!!! You are NOT responsible for this.
> 
> Never accept or give yourself away to someone that doesn’t put YOU first. Being a second class citizen in your own marriage is not actually a marriage.


Thank you! You know, I tend to forget that even if I was the worlds greatest lover, if she was unhappy or wanted something/someone else, it wouldn't matter how good / bad I was at sex. Ya know? The biggest tell for me is that she can't even EXPLAIN why it's not "turning her on". Or whats "not working". Instead of working with me to try new things and communicate, she just expects me to up my game or something? She "doesn't know". So what does that tell me?


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## Tiddytok5 (8 mo ago)

throwawaycatalina said:


> I've (39m) been ugly crying like a baby for two hours straight, my head is pounding. My wife (37f) and i are going through a lot right now. I've tried to improve our marriage by compartmentalizing our issues, talking about them and coming up with ways to improve. While we were on the subject of sex, she just asked me "what I thought about having sex with other people since nothing you are trying is working." It felt like a spear through my heart. Quick background: We got married young (19/21) and had two kids pretty fast and we really killed it at the parenting game. I was a boy scout leader and football coach, and my wife was PTA president and girl scout leader, etc etc. Things haven't been all perfect of course. We've had our huge fights, and fair share of f*** ups (nothing major like infidelity). The past year has been rough. Finances are bad. Our teenagers are definitely not going easy on us. My mom is dying of stage 4 cancer. My biggest client has cut my hours in half, twice. The family business is hurting. My wife feels lost now that kids don't need her as much. WHEW. So there's a lot of fear and stress right now. I wish I had a partner that would say "I'll love you no matter what, we'll get through this, we'll always have each other." But the best I get is "You know I'll always love you, but I can't continue living like this."
> 
> For most of our marriage, sex was not a significant part of our relationship. Once a week for a majority of it. When she gained 50lbs during the "baby years" (obesity runs in her family) we would go months without sex. I would constantly remind her how beautiful I thought she was and I would love her no matter what. We never used toys, tried fetishes/fantasies, or were sexually explorative at all. Vanilla sex life for sure. It's also worth noting that we aren't a jealous couple. I'm ok with her calling her friends "lovers". She goes out to parties and clubs regularly, and I go with her a lot or have my musician friends over to my home studio. About 5 years ago after a fight, she just up and took off her ring and said it was uncomfortable and she hates the idea of diamonds/rings, they get in the way of her profession, it's always breaking, etc. I've suggested a tattoo or wearing it around her neck but I admittedly haven't pressed the issue and now so much time has passed it feels like I missed my chance. I'm sure you can see where this is going. I feel like she's slowly pressed (and I've allowed) the boundries to go this far where now the next step seems to be talking about opening our marriage. I very plainly told her that it's a deal breaker for me. If my spouse can't work with what I have, and try to make things better between us, then I don't want to be in that relationship. Full stop. She understood, and reiterated something like "you know this is just me talking, trying to see what might work/what wouldn't, etc. I don't have any intentions currently to find sex outside our marriage" She also said "It works for some couples, and especially those that enjoy other aspects of the marriage but they either changed or just can't satisfy each other." My brain is a blended mush pile but I say something like "Call me a sexist or toxic male or whatever, but I aboslutely could not be happy in a marriage where my wife is out having sex with another dude. That's just how I am, and I got no problem with others if that works for them."
> 
> ...


Leave.

Your marriage is over.

She has no respect for you.

She wants your permission to cheat.

She's been seeing other people already, and just doesn't want to get caught..and want to blame you for the demise in your marriage.



She wants your permission to keep on seeing whoever she's been seeing.

She doesn't want to sneak around anymore.

She wants to be out in the open with her affair partner (s).


She also is perhaps in love with whoever she's been seeing.



You two are incompatible.

You have little to no self esteem and self
respect.


Divorce, leave, go to therapy.


Stop allowing yourself to be treated terribly.


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## throwawaycatalina (2 mo ago)

bygone said:


> Tell your wife that you expect her to be honest about everything before opening up (record your conversation, then she won't deny it)
> 
> 1) do you have relationship?
> 
> ...


She's adamantly denied any infadelity. Do you think agreeing to open the marriage up would somehow get her to then admit to the cheating? That doesn't sound like her, or like a good plan. Or maybe I misunderstood your post. I appreciate your help by the way!


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## throwawaycatalina (2 mo ago)

Tiddytok5 said:


> Leave.
> 
> Your marriage is over.
> 
> ...


Yup. This is definitely what I fear most. I just wish I had proof so in the meantime I'm going to focus on improving MYSELF and keep a very close eye on her.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She started cheating just prior to taking off her rings.

Going to bars with no rings on, c'mon.

She has self esteem problems, she has body issues, she goes to bars where men buy her drinks and flirt with her.

The alcohol makes her feel better.This drinking has set her on the wrong path.

I would suggest she has had a few quickies while under the influence.
She liked those, but would prefer some overnights with a dude, maybe a particular one.

You need a friend to monitor her when she goes out alone, or with other gals.

She suffers from anxiety and depression and sorta blames you, which is cruel and unfair.

I would give her what she deserves...a divorce.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

throwawaycatalina said:


> She's adamantly denied any infadelity. Do you think agreeing to open the marriage up would somehow get her to then admit to the cheating? That doesn't sound like her, or like a good plan. Or maybe I misunderstood your post. I appreciate your help by the way!


I think your wife's not enjoying sex with you is proof that she's with someone else, she won't be happy no matter what you do. (sorry)

open relationships are built on trust and honesty, remind your wife of this

You will think if she proves that she is not cheating on you on the polygraph!

If she has something to say, she should say it now.

You should also ask the reason for starting relationships, who supported, encouraged?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

throwawaycatalina said:


> She's adamantly denied any infadelity. Do you think agreeing to open the marriage up would somehow get her to then admit to the cheating? That doesn't sound like her, or like a good plan. Or maybe I misunderstood your post. I appreciate your help by the way!


Of course, she denied cheating.

Can she deny wanting to screw other men?

The desire is there, she took off her rings.

The only thing left is getting your permission to ease what little conscience she has.

She may think that opening up your marriage will allow her to eventually find a new man, and then to dump you.
All, under your nose and with your unwritten permission.


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> She may think that opening up your marriage will allow her to eventually find a new man, and then to dump you.
> All, under your nose and with your unwritten permission.


This sounds right.

She doesn't sound ready for marriage at this time.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

The cat's already "out of the bag" OP. She's already opened your marriage. She's just looking for belated permission.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I had two extended family members, who each, had owned small taverns, a third managed them over a lifetime.

The stories they tell about their 'regulars'.

Regulars are the lifeblood of any pub, especially the ladies.

Ladies are prized because they draw in the men.

One relative-owner had booths on one side wall, with a few, out of sight of most of the clientele.

His waitresses said that all sorts of sordid things happened in those booths. I asked him why didn't he open them up to prevent this sort of behavior.

His typical answer, "You have never owned a bar, have you?"

Keep the customers happy and liquored up is the key to survival.

I was told, a lot goes on in those rear parking places, also.

Nothing new here, the Romans had their drinking gardens.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Dump your current wife, prepare yourself for your next relationship.
Here is an article on Premature Ejaculation (PE).






Premature ejaculation - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic







www.mayoclinic.org


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

throwawaycatalina said:


> She's adamantly denied any infadelity. Do you think agreeing to open the marriage up would somehow get her to then admit to the cheating? That doesn't sound like her, or like a good plan. Or maybe I misunderstood your post. I appreciate your help by the way!


When your wife suggested an open marriage, do you think she was serious and all the other stuff that`s happening with her, could she simply be winding you up?
Perhaps the marriage has gone stale and as for the lack of sex, women do go off it, there are many threads on here regarding this subject.
Maybe your wife has begun to have mental issues, what do you think?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

throwawaycatalina said:


> bout 5 years ago after a fight, she just up and took off her ring and said it was uncomfortable and she hates the idea of diamonds/rings, they get in the way of her profession, it's always breaking, etc.


Red Flag 🚩


throwawaycatalina said:


> If my spouse can't work with what I have, and try to make things better between us, then I don't want to be in that relationship. Full stop.


Good1 Hold that thought.



throwawaycatalina said:


> Unfortunately she hates oral. OK, I play the piano and have virtuouso fingers to work with - why don't you let me finger you longer until you're close to climax? "I get bored of fingering". I literally bought toys, and am DOWN for anything you guys. But she just tells me "I don't know what to say, I just know what works and what doesn't"


So nothing you do "works". Probably because she has become acclimated to another. Guessing about 5 years ago. Someone who had anatomy superior to yours and capable of lasting long and hitting the right spots for her. Her statement "I know what works" means she is getting satisfaction somehow, just not from you.



Mr.Married said:


> The open relationship dialogue often comes up when a person is already cheating and they are attempting to get “permission”.





gameopoly5 said:


> On reading your post it seems likely your wife is a cheater waiting to happen, or has cheated or is already cheating.


Exactly.



throwawaycatalina said:


> But something changed somewhere a year or two ago. Taking off the ring, and gaurding her social media and the sex just felt or seemed different, like I was able to satisfy her before and now I'm struggling like I'm feeling insecure, or I'm doing something wrong.


🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩



throwawaycatalina said:


> ANYTHING that would display us as husband and wife is MIA.


She wants to display as a single person



throwawaycatalina said:


> I have thought about it that I should just tell her if she cheats we're done and then get on with my life. Take a step back from being so hyper-focused on "saving the marriage" and Focus on improving MYSELF and if she's so unhappy then she can move out, draft up the divorce, etc.


Forget "if she cheats". If she hasn't already, which seems VERY likely, she will. The "open marriage" gambit is the last ploy. Also, don't wait for her to draft the divorce. Get your life back and let her go to the streets for the "open" life she wants. At 39 you have a lifetime ahead to find someone else. Don't move our of your house though.



throwawaycatalina said:


> Instead of working with me to try new things and communicate, she just expects me to up my game or something? She "doesn't know". So what does that tell me?


Oh she knows. But if she discloses what she knows it will give away what she has been up to.



bygone said:


> think your wife's not enjoying sex with you is proof that she's with someone else, she won't be happy no matter what you do. (sorry)


Agree with this. Sorry, but the game is actually over, your "wife" just hasn't the decency to tell you.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

More red flags than a Chinese Communist parade. One spouse talking about opening the marriage is a good indication they already have and are feeling guilty, but wsnt to legitimize it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Your situation isn't a good one for an open marriage. They can work if you deeply love and trust each other, have a good sex life, and are just looking for variety. It doesn't sound like any of those things are mutually true, so it could be an exit strategy. It is still possible that she deeply loves you but is sexually unsatisfied, and all the stress of your lives is pushing her to seek some relief in this one way. It doesn't work for you, so it won't work, end of story. Of course, if she's really unhappy, she may leave anyway, open marriage or not.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

The other posters are trying to be kind and gentle and trying to not hurt your feelings or get you too upset and so they are sugar coating it to soften the blow.

I’m going to wake you up with a pitcher of ice water to the face.

she has already been hooking up with other dudes and she is getting tired of having to sneak around and cover her tracks.

she is playing you for a fool and a chump.

she doesn’t want to sneak around anymore. She wants to openly see other men while living in your house until she finds another guy that will have her full time and then she will pack up and move in with him in the matter of a weekend or few days.

you are living an illusion if you think you have a functioning marriage.

Secretly hack into her phone, emails, social media or hire a PI and you will quickly find out she is already involved with another man or multiple men. 

you have been very naive and irresponsibly trusting here and she has been taking advantage of your naivette.

she is basically living off of you until she has things secured with her next guy at which time she will leave you in the course of a weekend.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@oldshirt beat me to it.

She's already been getting her big booty pounded by another already.

I guess I'm left wondering why you're still trying to hang on?

Would you be destroyed in a divorce?

BTW, I'm sorry about the financial trouble you have been having. You aren't alone.

A lot of characters have been revealed over the trouble of the last couple years.

I had three friends get divorced in 2020 for cheating wives.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Instead of toy shops and therapists, you might consider seeking legal advice, and find the courage to leave this marriage. Your wife sounds selfish and unkind and unless that’s a turn on, I think you can do better. You sound like you’ve become a doormat.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

throwawaycatalina said:


> Thank you for your response. Up until this past year, yes I've trusted her 100%. She has never given me a reason to distrust her. But something changed somewhere a year or two ago. Taking off the ring, and gaurding her social media and the sex just felt or seemed different, like I was able to satisfy her before and now I'm struggling like I'm feeling insecure, or I'm doing something wrong. She also has reacted very strangely to me just asking her straight up "Have you hooked up with another guy/cheated on me?" and she'd say "Yeah, lokicatalina, totally. I've got a new boyfriend and we're hooking up all the time.. " and when I tell her that's f*** up, why can't you just be serious, she denies it with a tone of emotion of resentment "No, lokicatalina, I'm not cheating on you. There, happy?" I don't know how much of it is her being unhappy and how much of it is just her personality. My gut tells me she's keeping something from me, but she is adamant that if she wanted to cheat/didn't love me, etc - she would tell me.


Everything you have said here is sign of infidelity.

Even the sex feeling “different” is a sign. Once a WW starts getting down with another, the lions share of her attraction and desire will shift to the OM and many women will feel as though they are “cheating” on the OM and will feel very awkward and defensive towards the husband.

Also her sarcastically saying saying that she has an AP and is getting down with him all the time is an actual established diversion technique that cheaters use to throw off the BS.

This is all right out of the pages of The Cheaters Handbook, including the refusal to go to MC/therapy.

Just like an embezzler and tax evader will not want to the IRS office for help in straightening out their taxes, a cheater will not go an MC/therapist’s office where they will get discovered and called out either. 

This is all almost a 100% guarantee that she is already getting with someone and is just plotting her exit strategy.

You just have not woke up and smelled the coffee yet.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Also her sarcastically saying saying that she has an AP and is getting down with him all the time is an actual established diversion technique that cheaters use to throw off the BS.


I forgot to mention above, this technique actually has a name, it is called “Agree And Amplify.”

it is an actual bona fide technique that cheaters use to get suspicious BS’s off their backs.

Also look up the term DARVO and see if she seems to be doing any of that.

DARVO stands for Deny, Attack and Reverse Victim and Offender.

A typical DARVO would be if you voiced suspicion of her cheating, she may A&A above initially, but then deny the charges in an agressive manner and then counter attack with anger and hostility and claim that you are being the asshole and that you are the one making things difficult and a hostile environment with your suspicions and accusations and that you are the one causing trouble in the marriage and are being mean to her.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Check out the advice on “How to Make a Woman Orgasm” in the “Sex in Marriage” forum.

The fact that she doesn’t want to wear a wedding band indicates that she wants men to approach her.

She clearly wants the appearance and perks of marriage without the sexual relationship, which she wants to seek elsewhere. She’s already getting sex elsewhere, so your “closed marriage” serves only to inhibit you. (Unless you live in a fault divorce state.)



> Whats scary is she said we've discussed it in the past and I said "I (as in ME) would have rules like I would want to know who you're having sex with." She said/ followed with a "Which I thought was weird, like, who the hell would you want to know that?"


She says that she is a “what he doesn’t know doesn’t hurt him” kind of woman. That’s consistent with her actions.



> Up until this past year, yes I've trusted her 100%. She has never given me a reason to distrust her. But something changed somewhere a year or two ago. Taking off the ring, and guarding her social media


That’s as close to telling you, without telling you, as you can get. She is guarding her texts, social media and apps because she’s cheating.



> and the sex just felt or seemed different, like I was able to satisfy her before and now I'm struggling like I'm feeling insecure, or I'm doing something wrong.


That’s because she’s sleeping with another man. She’s emotionally disconnected to you.



> She also has reacted very strangely to me just asking her straight up "Have you hooked up with another guy/cheated on me?"


Of course. You say that you cannot deal with knowing that she’s sleeping with another man, so she’s telling you what you want to hear.



> The biggest tell for me is that she can't even EXPLAIN why it's not "turning her on". Or whats "not working". Instead of working with me to try new things and communicate, she just expects me to up my game or something? She "doesn't know". So what does that tell me?


Exactly. She doesn’t want it to work with you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> Check out the advice on “How to Make a Woman Orgasm” in the “Sex in Marriage” forum.
> 
> The fact that she doesn’t want to wear a wedding band indicates that she wants men to approach her.


In this case it would mean becoming the OM to give her one.

From the sound of it, I don't think anyone would be interested in helping her with her problem who wasn't living behind a dumpster.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

throwawaycatalina said:


> Call me a sexist or toxic male or whatever, but I aboslutely could not be happy in a marriage where my wife is out having sex with another dude. That's just how I am, and I got no problem with others if that works for them."


Hey man, you're better than me, I couldn't be happy in a marriage if my wife even suggested an open marriage.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

throwawaycatalina said:


> Thank you for your response. Up until this past year, yes I've trusted her 100%. She has never given me a reason to distrust her. But something changed somewhere a year or two ago. Taking off the ring, and gaurding her social media and the sex just felt or seemed different, like I was able to satisfy her before and now I'm struggling like I'm feeling insecure, or I'm doing something wrong. She also has reacted very strangely to me just asking her straight up "Have you hooked up with another guy/cheated on me?" and she'd say "Yeah, lokicatalina, totally. I've got a new boyfriend and we're hooking up all the time.. " and when I tell her that's f*** up, why can't you just be serious, she denies it with a tone of emotion of resentment "No, lokicatalina, I'm not cheating on you. There, happy?" I don't know how much of it is her being unhappy and how much of it is just her personality. My gut tells me she's keeping something from me, but she is adamant that if she wanted to cheat/didn't love me, etc - she would tell me.


That something that changed a year or two ago is she got plowed by a sex god and now you simply don't cut it anymore in the sack. You need to leave this marriage ASAP, it's done, cooked and as dry as last night's turkey.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> she has already been hooking up with other dudes and she is getting tired of having to sneak around and cover her tracks.
> 
> she is playing you for a fool and a chump.


“Were you cheating on him? Did you play him for a fool?”

“No,” she laughs. “I told him I wanted an open marriage, and I didn’t want to know what (if anything) he was doing — and that he shouldn’t want to know what I’m doing. I stopped wearing my wedding ring 5 years ago. I didn’t mention him anymore on social media, openly went out in dates, referred to the guys I was seeing as my ‘lovers.’ I mean, sure, I jokingly said that I wasn’t seeing anybody else but he knew I was joking. I was totally upfront with him.”



> Secretly hack into her phone, emails, social media or hire a PI and you will quickly find out she is already involved with another man or multiple men.


Yes!


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Everything you have said here is sign of infidelity.
> 
> Even the sex feeling “different” is a sign. Once a WW starts getting down with another, the lions share of her attraction and desire will shift to the OM and many women will feel as though they are “cheating” on the OM and will feel very awkward and defensive towards the husband.
> 
> ...


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

If she uses a computer, you can install software to collect and track everything.

If she only uses an iPhone, you can connect the iPhone to an iPad so that you can see copies of the texts, messages, notifications and photos. 

You can turn on location tracking on her phone. Put in a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car. Install recorders and cameras in your own home to see what she’s doing when you are not around.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

[QUOTE="ConanHub]BTW, I'm sorry about the financial trouble you have been having. You aren't alone.

A lot of characters have been revealed over the trouble of the last couple years.

I had three friends get divorced in 2020 for cheating wives.[/QUOTE]

“For better, for richer, and in health — but only so long as I am happy.”


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CraigBesuden said:


> [QUOTE="ConanHub]BTW, I'm sorry about the financial trouble you have been having. You aren't alone.
> 
> A lot of characters have been revealed over the trouble of the last couple years.
> 
> I had three friends get divorced in 2020 for cheating wives.


“For better, for richer, and in health — but only so long as I am happy.”
[/QUOTE]
And there is no making a hohoho happy.

All three were ridiculous excuses for women.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> “For better, for richer, and in health — but only so long as I am happy.”


It really should be rewritten as “For richer or for poorer……. As long as you get back to richer right away. And in sickness and in health…… as long as you don’t stay sick very long and recover fast.” 

The reality is you can’t remain poor or stay sick.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

IME, a woman would never say "lets open up the marriage",,,,,Usually guys say that, if they have been beating themselves off for a long time, because the wife wont put out...

Rarely you may hear a woman, out of sheer frustration say something like, "look, the factory is closed, so do whatever you want to do, just don't let me know or hear about it"....And even that is something that they say, not to be taken literally, but to get a guy to stop pestering them for sex...

I guess that means I agree with a lot of the others...She's done with you sexually and wants another piece of meat...Maybe deep down she figures that if she gets the itch scratched, she will settle back into mundane life of most of the other women her age...Or maybe she thinks this will send you off and result in a divorce, where she has less guilt, because she "gave you an out" in the sex department, but I don't know ....

Get your ducks in a row, buddy...


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

I’m not the type to always think “they are already cheating” like many on this forum do but in this case I’m almost positive she’s already cheating.

Don’t beat yourself up about premature ejaculation or your sex technique because the truth is the other guy may not actually be any better in bed than you. He just now has an emotional connection and that goes a long way toward creating “great sex” no matter what that is, because as you experienced she can’t even define it.

If my wife suggested an open marriage I would just think the marriage is already over and a divorce was just a technicality.

Work on yourself and prepare to be a great catch for a good woman on the next round of life.

A previous poster mentioned the MMSLP which stands for Married Man Sex Life Primer if you didn’t figure that out. It’s on Amazon and actually a good book although the author seems to have disappeared as of recently. I’ve consulted with him a couple times during some rough patches in my marriage and he was able to properly deduce what was happening. Just FYI, he said my wife was obviously really into me and I actually needed to tone down the alpha and up the beta a little bit.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I would set her free. Because like others, I too think she has already set herself free. I just think you need to get an attorney. Listen, don't waste your time trying to "prove" infidelity. It makes zero difference in a divorce. It's a waste of time and makes you look like the crazy one. Just face reality. She's laying all this on you for premature ejaculation (if it even IS premature -- could just be her trying to deflect blame. You could be average for all I know.)

Anyway, oral and toys are out, so I don't know what magic wand she wants you to wave to fix this, but I would just remember that oral and toys may be "in" and not "out" when you begin dating new women. I would venture to say that a huge percentage of women value nonpenis foreplay even more than PIV, though most of them want that too, but if you get them off first, then how long YOU take becomes a nonissue for most.

If you don't "initiate" leaving, she is going to find your replacement and just drop it on you like a bomb. Better you take the initiative and just take control of your life by being the first to get advice from a family attorney. Fear not, if you are in the US and have underage kids, you will get 50 percent custody and not miss them at all nor deprive them of your influence (unless you should happen to have some severe problem like addiction, of course).

Good luck.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I would venture to say that a huge percentage of women value nonpenis foreplay even more than PIV, though most of them want that too, but if you get them off first, then how long YOU take becomes a nonissue for most.


That's how it was for the longest time with my wife. Oral for her pleasure, then PIV for me (and the shorter the time, the better). Probably not ideal but it did work well enough.



> get advice from a family attorney. Fear not, if you are in the US and have underage kids, you will get 50 percent custody and not miss them at all nor deprive them of your influence.


Agreed. The family courts, by and large, are no longer (very) biased against men. The default outcome is 50-50 custody, and that usually means paying no child support. Although people say that you lose half of what you accumulated in the marriage, it was never entirely yours and your wife is simply getting her half. From what I've heard, although some of the male judges are still a little biased in favor of women, the female judges are not and will happily make a woman pay alimony just as they will a man.


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

Why do you want to be with her anyway? Get divorce papers


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

throwawaycatalina said:


> It's also worth noting that we aren't a jealous couple. *I'm ok with her calling her friends "lovers". She goes out to parties and clubs regularly, and I go with her a lot or have my musician friends over to my home studio. About 5 years ago after a fight, she just up and took off her ring and said it was uncomfortable and she hates the idea of diamonds/rings*, they get in the way of her profession, it's always breaking, etc. I've suggested a tattoo or wearing it around her neck but I admittedly haven't pressed the issue and now so much time has passed it feels like I missed my chance. I'm sure you can see where this is going. *I feel like she's slowly pressed (and I've allowed) the boundries to go this far where now the next step seems to be talking about opening our marriage.*


Ahhhh... yeah she cheated and now just wants to make it official that you're cool with it.



> She has said that 1. I shoot too quickly 2. I don't initiate enough and 3. I "lost the moves that turn her on." She hates initiating but at least I've gotten her to DO THAT AT ALL because before she wouldn't even try and just expected me to. As someone with a medium sex drive I knew initiating wouldn't be a problem, as even with the ****storm that is my life right now, I am ready to go more than her, that's no question. But she doesn't like quickies, only likes sex in our locked bedroom, and not when kids are awake, etc etc blah blah. OK that just cuts down 80% of my shots, but ok fine... I thought things were going well, 3 times in one week, but I had yet to make her cum. So I decided to surprise her with some sex shop toys. I even got numbing cream to make me last longer, (spoiler alert: it didn't work as well as I'd hoped)
> 
> Here's what usually happens. Start with some flirting. Then some touching and rubbing. I'll usually finger her to get her started and wait for her to pull me on top. Dirty talking, exploring more of her body, etc. We go for 5-7 minutes usually missionary or we'll switch it up once or twice during. I always feel the buildup with her and try to read her body language as we go... I'll ask/warn/stall reach climax and at some point I'll cum and I can stay hard after orgasm so keep going, she knows when I cum and she'll lose interest and say she's "not feeling it now", and I'll say "Well, let's try a new position? Throw in a toy?" at which point she says "I'm already over it now." I guess I'm just bad at faking? (Trust me, I try!)
> 
> ...


She's checked out of the marriage from what it looks like. It doesn't matter what *you* do for her at this point.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

throwawaycatalina said:


> I would never. *Whats scary is she said we've discussed it in the past and I said "I (as in ME) would have rules like I would want to know who you're having sex with.*" She said/ followed with a "Which I thought was weird, like, who the hell would you want to know that?" I totally lost it at this point. I don't remember that conversation. At all. And while I have bad memory, it IS possible - I could see saying something like that to try and figure out if she's already cheating and get a name? I don't know. I feel like I would remember that. Just a note - It _would _be very unusual for my wife to lie - I've had problems with lieing in the past (not infidelity) so she has taken a very staunch / righteous path when it comes to the truth- that she would never lie, and that if she was going to cheat I would know well in advance."


How can this even be up for discussion?
Only one rule and that is, this is not up for discussion or negotiation.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Well , as others have stated , it seems like maybe she has already moved on
If it were me , I would want to know. I know it doesn't matter in no fault states , yet me being me , I would want some tangible proof of infidelity. 

Is there any chance of getting ahold of her phone ?

Or if you have the cash go for the PI. 

You said that you have gone to clubs with her. How does she react in these situations 🤔 

Does she dance with other guys ? Get overly drunk. ? Ignore you ?


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

@throwawaycatalina Dude, she's cheating on you. 

Call it a day and work on the 180.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

throwawaycatalina said:


> I've (39m) been ugly crying like a baby for two hours straight, my head is pounding. My wife (37f) and i are going through a lot right now. I've tried to improve our marriage by compartmentalizing our issues, talking about them and coming up with ways to improve. While we were on the subject of sex, she just asked me "what I thought about having sex with other people since nothing you are trying is working." It felt like a spear through my heart. Quick background: We got married young (19/21) and had two kids pretty fast and we really killed it at the parenting game. I was a boy scout leader and football coach, and my wife was PTA president and girl scout leader, etc etc. Things haven't been all perfect of course. We've had our huge fights, and fair share of f*** ups (nothing major like infidelity). The past year has been rough. Finances are bad. Our teenagers are definitely not going easy on us. My mom is dying of stage 4 cancer. My biggest client has cut my hours in half, twice. The family business is hurting. My wife feels lost now that kids don't need her as much. WHEW. So there's a lot of fear and stress right now. I wish I had a partner that would say "I'll love you no matter what, we'll get through this, we'll always have each other." But the best I get is "You know I'll always love you, but I can't continue living like this."
> 
> For most of our marriage, sex was not a significant part of our relationship. Once a week for a majority of it. When she gained 50lbs during the "baby years" (obesity runs in her family) we would go months without sex. I would constantly remind her how beautiful I thought she was and I would love her no matter what. We never used toys, tried fetishes/fantasies, or were sexually explorative at all. Vanilla sex life for sure. It's also worth noting that we aren't a jealous couple. I'm ok with her calling her friends "lovers". She goes out to parties and clubs regularly, and I go with her a lot or have my musician friends over to my home studio. About 5 years ago after a fight, she just up and took off her ring and said it was uncomfortable and she hates the idea of diamonds/rings, they get in the way of her profession, it's always breaking, etc. I've suggested a tattoo or wearing it around her neck but I admittedly haven't pressed the issue and now so much time has passed it feels like I missed my chance. I'm sure you can see where this is going. I feel like she's slowly pressed (and I've allowed) the boundries to go this far where now the next step seems to be talking about opening our marriage. I very plainly told her that it's a deal breaker for me. If my spouse can't work with what I have, and try to make things better between us, then I don't want to be in that relationship. Full stop. She understood, and reiterated something like "you know this is just me talking, trying to see what might work/what wouldn't, etc. I don't have any intentions currently to find sex outside our marriage" She also said "It works for some couples, and especially those that enjoy other aspects of the marriage but they either changed or just can't satisfy each other." My brain is a blended mush pile but I say something like "Call me a sexist or toxic male or whatever, but I aboslutely could not be happy in a marriage where my wife is out having sex with another dude. That's just how I am, and I got no problem with others if that works for them."
> 
> ...


I think this could possibly be a childish way of saying she wants more or would like to experience more sex partners. Even if I thought this was just a childish temporary type of selfishness meant to be even more selfish, and I thought it would be over in a year, it’s also the thought how many sex partners it will also take in that year to help her get through this? Open marriage sounds like they can’t ever have enough different sex partners.


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## LuvMyWifeAndFamily (7 mo ago)

throwawaycatalina said:


> ...gaurding her social media...


Guarding == hiding == deceit
I have not been through all the posts yet and am no relationship guru, actually I am here because my current marriage is circling the drain and I'm desperate to save it, but one difference between our situations is this: I have been looking, high and low, for 2 years for deception. Looking everywhere for it if for nothing else to have 'proof' of some bad behavior. I have studied body language books, tapped phones, keylogged electronics (hint hint 4 u), etc etc. I have discovered zero lies.
Why would your wife shield something from you? Is it fun to hide innocence? Better yet is hiding innocence even a human concept. No one has EVER thought to hide innocence it makes no sense to do so and would be a waste of energy with only negative results.
You have a serious problem. But you also have proof. Again:. Guarding == hiding == Lieing == there's your proof. What more are you waiting for. Build a case now. Don't spend money yet on counselors. Instead hire a PI, if you dunno how hire someone like me to tap her phone, keylog her computer, etc. But only do it if you want the whole graphic story.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Man, this was a rough read. While your business is spiraling, your parent is needing you for support, your wife is concerned with opening up the marriage because she’s tired of hiding her infidelities. I suspect that your wife has been unfaithful since BEFORE she took off her ring. Her doing the GNO leads me to believe she has probably had a string of affairs and ONS’.

You need to get your ducks in a row to prepare to divorce. A middle aged adulteress with kids is a tough sale for most men that are worth having. Sure, there’s an endless supply of guys who will want a ride for a couple of weeks but move in together or marry? Any guy who’s a catch would pass but if one did want to keep her, like @oldshirt said, she’d be gone in a weekend. So stop trying to nice her or wreck yourself anymore than you already have. Prepare to leave her.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

It would be great to know what OP ended up doing but he hasn't been on the site since the day he posted.


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## Cowboy263 (5 d ago)

throwawaycatalina said:


> I've (39m) been ugly crying like a baby for two hours straight, my head is pounding. My wife (37f) and i are going through a lot right now. I've tried to improve our marriage by compartmentalizing our issues, talking about them and coming up with ways to improve. While we were on the subject of sex, she just asked me "what I thought about having sex with other people since nothing you are trying is working." It felt like a spear through my heart. Quick background: We got married young (19/21) and had two kids pretty fast and we really killed it at the parenting game. I was a boy scout leader and football coach, and my wife was PTA president and girl scout leader, etc etc. Things haven't been all perfect of course. We've had our huge fights, and fair share of f*** ups (nothing major like infidelity). The past year has been rough. Finances are bad. Our teenagers are definitely not going easy on us. My mom is dying of stage 4 cancer. My biggest client has cut my hours in half, twice. The family business is hurting. My wife feels lost now that kids don't need her as much. WHEW. So there's a lot of fear and stress right now. I wish I had a partner that would say "I'll love you no matter what, we'll get through this, we'll always have each other." But the best I get is "You know I'll always love you, but I can't continue living like this."
> 
> For most of our marriage, sex was not a significant part of our relationship. Once a week for a majority of it. When she gained 50lbs during the "baby years" (obesity runs in her family) we would go months without sex. I would constantly remind her how beautiful I thought she was and I would love her no matter what. We never used toys, tried fetishes/fantasies, or were sexually explorative at all. Vanilla sex life for sure. It's also worth noting that we aren't a jealous couple. I'm ok with her calling her friends "lovers". She goes out to parties and clubs regularly, and I go with her a lot or have my musician friends over to my home studio. About 5 years ago after a fight, she just up and took off her ring and said it was uncomfortable and she hates the idea of diamonds/rings, they get in the way of her profession, it's always breaking, etc. I've suggested a tattoo or wearing it around her neck but I admittedly haven't pressed the issue and now so much time has passed it feels like I missed my chance. I'm sure you can see where this is going. I feel like she's slowly pressed (and I've allowed) the boundries to go this far where now the next step seems to be talking about opening our marriage. I very plainly told her that it's a deal breaker for me. If my spouse can't work with what I have, and try to make things better between us, then I don't want to be in that relationship. Full stop. She understood, and reiterated something like "you know this is just me talking, trying to see what might work/what wouldn't, etc. I don't have any intentions currently to find sex outside our marriage" She also said "It works for some couples, and especially those that enjoy other aspects of the marriage but they either changed or just can't satisfy each other." My brain is a blended mush pile but I say something like "Call me a sexist or toxic male or whatever, but I aboslutely could not be happy in a marriage where my wife is out having sex with another dude. That's just how I am, and I got no problem with others if that works for them."
> 
> ...


First of all, obesity runs in nobody's family. It's called being fat and she refused to lose it after having your children. You enabled her by saying she was beautiful instead of putting her on a diet and getting her in the gym. When you got married, she looked up to you and you were her man. Now you've gotten weak. You're predictable. You don't turn her on like you did back in the day. 

At least she's not asking for a divorce. She's basically giving you a hall pass to sleep with other women. My advice would be to take her up on the offer. Get off the couch and get back in shape. Start seeing other women. It will spark a flame in you since you'll start dressing better, getting in shape, and have more confidence. Don't give her any details about the women you are sleeping with. Keep your answers short when she asks about it. She will be curious as to why other women are interested in you and she'll start to be attracted to you again. Men can be attractive for much longer in life while most women start to lose their beauty after their mid 20s.

You need to turn your life around man. Get some manly hobbies. Learn how to be alone. No woman gets wet over a boy scout leader. You need to become the most interesting man in the room. Start traveling solo. Take some interesting pictures. Become the man you were born to be.

Lastly, you need to stop giving her so much attention. She will **** other men but you need to act indifferent. She will see that the grass isn't always greener. Let's be honest, we all know that attractive men aren't lined up to bang a almost 40 year old woman that's at least 50 pounds overweight. She doesn't understand that now but she will find out once she starts sleeping with other guys.


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## Cowboy263 (5 d ago)

I forgot to add, don't comment on any changes she makes with her appearance. Women thrive on attention. Whether she has a new hairstyle, clothes, or makeup, ignore it. If she says something like how do you like my hair, say something like "it looks interesting". You need to make her feel that you are getting something better and that she is invisible to you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

throwawaycatalina said:


> I've (39m) been ugly crying like a baby for two hours straight, my head is pounding. My wife (37f) and i are going through a lot right now. I've tried to improve our marriage by compartmentalizing our issues, talking about them and coming up with ways to improve. While we were on the subject of sex, she just asked me "what I thought about having sex with other people since nothing you are trying is working." It felt like a spear through my heart. Quick background: We got married young (19/21) and had two kids pretty fast and we really killed it at the parenting game. I was a boy scout leader and football coach, and my wife was PTA president and girl scout leader, etc etc. Things haven't been all perfect of course. We've had our huge fights, and fair share of f*** ups (nothing major like infidelity). The past year has been rough. Finances are bad. Our teenagers are definitely not going easy on us. My mom is dying of stage 4 cancer. My biggest client has cut my hours in half, twice. The family business is hurting. My wife feels lost now that kids don't need her as much. WHEW. So there's a lot of fear and stress right now. I wish I had a partner that would say "I'll love you no matter what, we'll get through this, we'll always have each other." But the best I get is "You know I'll always love you, but I can't continue living like this."
> 
> For most of our marriage, sex was not a significant part of our relationship. Once a week for a majority of it. When she gained 50lbs during the "baby years" (obesity runs in her family) we would go months without sex. I would constantly remind her how beautiful I thought she was and I would love her no matter what. We never used toys, tried fetishes/fantasies, or were sexually explorative at all. Vanilla sex life for sure. It's also worth noting that we aren't a jealous couple. I'm ok with her calling her friends "lovers". She goes out to parties and clubs regularly, and I go with her a lot or have my musician friends over to my home studio. About 5 years ago after a fight, she just up and took off her ring and said it was uncomfortable and she hates the idea of diamonds/rings, they get in the way of her profession, it's always breaking, etc. I've suggested a tattoo or wearing it around her neck but I admittedly haven't pressed the issue and now so much time has passed it feels like I missed my chance. I'm sure you can see where this is going. I feel like she's slowly pressed (and I've allowed) the boundries to go this far where now the next step seems to be talking about opening our marriage. I very plainly told her that it's a deal breaker for me. If my spouse can't work with what I have, and try to make things better between us, then I don't want to be in that relationship. Full stop. She understood, and reiterated something like "you know this is just me talking, trying to see what might work/what wouldn't, etc. I don't have any intentions currently to find sex outside our marriage" She also said "It works for some couples, and especially those that enjoy other aspects of the marriage but they either changed or just can't satisfy each other." My brain is a blended mush pile but I say something like "Call me a sexist or toxic male or whatever, but I aboslutely could not be happy in a marriage where my wife is out having sex with another dude. That's just how I am, and I got no problem with others if that works for them."
> 
> ...


Remember she'll reflexively put all the blame on you, for all her excuses. She'll do it automatically.

Don't fall for that deflection. Don't take the blame.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Bringing up open marriage is her saying she wants to screw other guys....plain and simple. 

She already has someone lined up....or is already doing them and tired of hiding it. Shut up and start watching/looking for evidence. That may be part of y'all's sexual issues. 

Chad/Tyrone knows how to get me off, I can't tell you how they do it, they just can. That is why the open marriage talk, she wants Chad/Tyrone more often. 

I would be making my exit plans from this adulterous woman.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

She has already done it or getting ready to do it.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> IME, a woman would never say "lets open up the marriage",,,,,Usually guys say that


You think that!🤣 Listen to all the guys on different sites talk about wives, GF, Fiancees pushing them to open the relationship against their wills. But do it because they are afraid of loosing their wives, etc if they don't agree, so they relent to let their wives, etc go get plowed by dudes left and right while they are upset at home with kids while wives are being laid like tile, after they did not want to sleep with hubby.

Can't tell how many stories I've read where she wants to go screw co-worker or already is and wants hubby to approve. Her GF's are usually doing it to their hubby's already and give them the ideas. I think more women are asking to open, because they just want some strange. The stories I see is women requesting or giving ultimatum 2-1 over the husband's doing it. If she brings it up, just eject and consider her a lost cause.

If a woman loves a man, she will not want another woman touching him, and she will not want another man besides hubby touching her.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> You think that!🤣 Listen to all the guys on different sites talk about wives, GF, Fiancees pushing them to open the relationship against their wills. But do it because they are afraid of loosing their wives, etc if they don't agree, so they relent to let their wives, etc go get plowed by dudes left and right while they are upset at home with kids while wives are being laid like tile, after they did not want to sleep with hubby.
> 
> Can't tell how many stories I've read where she wants to go screw co-worker or already is and wants hubby to approve. Her GF's are usually doing it to their hubby's already and give them the ideas. I think more women are asking to open, because they just want some strange. The stories I see is women requesting or giving ultimatum 2-1 over the husband's doing it. If she brings it up, just eject and consider her a lost cause.
> 
> If a woman loves a man, she will not want another woman touching him, and she will not want another man besides hubby touching her.


I suppose....just unheard of in my world....

Plus....women are typically the type that, unlike men, wont want to juggle that around....Guys compartmentalize, so they see nothing wrong with it....Women don't typically compartmentalize the same way...They'll just dump the guy, go off with the other one, and let the chips fall where they may..

Its the primary reason most women are initiating divorce, IMO....They don't want or need to try to live a double life like guys typically do...When they are done....they are done.....


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

Zombie cat, paging zombie cat...


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