# Told my son he has 30 days to move out, too harsh?



## Marriedwithdogs

Last yr my 19 yo decided to go to a community college 2 hrs away for the experience of being away from us and playing for the football team (bc the one where we live isn't good enough).

When he didn't make the team,and couldn't find a job there(jobs abound here) he decided to move back. He doesn't have a car, so he's using our car. We are not charging him rent bc we wanthim to save up for a car, and eventually save enough to get his own Place. He's gong to school part time and working part time. That's the background.

We are a military family so we've always been about character and respect, and having a good work ethic. We never showered our kids with gifts/money,, yet unfortunately our older two have an entitlement mindset,.

My son has ONE chore he has to do before he leaves for work, which is sweeping the stairs. He has the easiest chore in the house. There have been times he hasn't done it, and times he's grumbled about it. Today I had enough. I told him he needed to sweep,and he starts mumbling under his breath, "well so and so didn't do their chore. Keep in mind all the chores get done by 6pm, and he leaves for work at 3:45...of course that's the reason they aren't done. Mind you he still has his breakfast dishes left out, and rarely cleans up after himself without someone telling him to. I told him he had 30 days to move out, find a roommate, do whatever you have to do, but you can't stay here if you are gonna argue with me over a 5 min chore and not pick up after yourself. I do NOT put up with talking back and being disrespected, and of course he only does it when my hubby isn't around.

Part of me feels like it will humble him and teach him a lesson, but the other part of me feels like it might lead him down the wrong path. Am I over reacting?


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## woundedwarrior

I understand your situation all too well. The most important thing about a threat is you have to follow through no matter what. My wife threatened her daughter with this repeatedly and she left and came back 3 times, with the last time being pregnant. She just called my wife's bluff every time.
Asking someone to do a chore and pick up after themselves, when you're in college is ridiculous. You shouldn't have to ask, but been there, done that. No, You're not overreacting.


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## Mr.Fisty

He needs to fail and see if he can get back on his own feet to learn. He should be able to fail with no one making excuses for him in order to grow up.

He is going to rebel, and figure out his own life. It is a time for him to experiment in which direction he wants his life to go. With every path that ends up in a failure, he may learn a valuable lesson from that experience.

Living on his own, being responsible for bills, upkeep of his own place,may teach him to be more appreciative of what he took for granted. Some kids need easing into adulthood, and some take that plunge and succeed. You will find out more about his character once he is out there.

Just tell him that you love him and want him to succeed. Also, state that this is a good learning experience for him as well.

He is lucky from my standpoint. I did a lot more chores than that, and the older I got, the more responsibility was heaped upon me. Things like cleaning toilets, washing dishes, laundry, lawn care, cooking, was eventually my norm over time.

Unfortunately, my father passed away when I was 15, so I ended up raising my kid brother, but I was the one who had a huge hand in raising him anyways. I taught him to read, write, mathematics,and help look over his homework. When my father died, I went to school and worked at a grocery store and gave 2/3 of my income to my mother for bills. I was working 32 hours at 15,and giving my mother about 100 to 120 a week. This is about a decade ago. I was thrust into adulthood.


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## Maneo

are you and your husband on the same page about this?


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## unbelievable

He's been an adult over a year and he's acting like he's 12. The world isn't going to blow powder sugar up his backside. He'll get no free room and board, no free car rental, no free groceries, and no boss is going to put up with his crappy adolescent attitude. He needs to do some serious growing up and he's running out of time. Whatever you have to do to drag him into adulthood would be doing him a huge favor. Perhaps he could benefit from being introduced to his nearest military recruiter. He can mumble under his breath or make lame excuses to his drill sergeant and see how well that works out for him.


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## Marriedwithdogs

Yes, hubby is in agreement as well! We just feel like failures as parents and keep asking ourselves where we went wrong? He's immature in his thinking. He has no interest in joining the military. Hubby was a drill sgt in real life and kinda parents that way too. Probably why he has no interest in joining. He may have no choice when his 30 days runs out


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## Marriedwithdogs

Guess I'm afraid he'll get mixed up with the wrong ppl, like drug users. He's responsible when it comes to going to school and work. That's about the only positives I can say at this point .


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## Maneo

Marriedwithdogs said:


> Yes, hubby is in agreement as well! We just feel like failures as parents and keep asking ourselves where we went wrong? He's immature in his thinking. He has no interest in joining the military. Hubby was a drill sgt in real life and kinda parents that way too. Probably why he has no interest in joining. He may have no choice when his 30 days runs out


First, you and hubby are not failures. As parents we each do the best we can and we all do some things right and some things wrong.

Second, he is 19 and is a young adult which is a transition. No one wakes up one day and has suddenly transformed from kid to adult. It is a transition and for each person that is an individual journey and change. No one size to fit all. What you or your husband felt or did at 19 is not necessarily the same as how your son is feeling and behaving.

I've raised three boys- all now over 21 - and am working on a fourth. Each has been different. Some matured sooner than others. 

Your last post indicates you feel he is doing some things well. Does he hear positive feedback for those behaviors or only the negative feedback for the things he is not doing so well?

Life is an improvisation not a set script.


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## unbelievable

He's an adult, responsible for his actions just as you are responsible for your's. He makes choices just as you do and, occasionally, he will make bad ones (like you probably have at one time or another). Hard consequences have great instructional value if they are permitted to do their job. Lots of young people are maturing later these days. Your son may turn out to be the very salt of the earth. It's pretty premature to be calling anyone a failure.


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## Marriedwithdogs

Thanks for the support guys. I expected someone to say,"you're kicking him out for THAT?!". I feel better knowing I'm doing the right thing. Now just pray that I will be able to stick to it bc this isn't going to be easy for me, especially if he has no where to go.


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## Marriedwithdogs

Maneo said:


> First, you and hubby are not failures. As parents we each do the best we can and we all do some things right and some things wrong.
> 
> Second, he is 19 and is a young adult which is a transition. No one wakes up one day and has suddenly transformed from kid to adult. It is a transition and for each person that is an individual journey and change. No one size to fit all. What you or your husband felt or did at 19 is not necessarily the same as how your son is feeling and behaving.
> 
> I've raised three boys- all now over 21 - and am working on a fourth. Each has been different. Some matured sooner than others.
> 
> Your last post indicates you feel he is doing some things well. Does he hear positive feedback for those behaviors or only the negative feedback for the things he is not doing so well?
> 
> Life is an improvisation not a set script.



Yes he does hear the praises, but not nearly as much as the critiques.


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## Thundarr

Requiring rent is helpful in building responsibility. Read James Lehman's stuff on rules and boundaries with adult children.


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## Marriedwithdogs

Thundarr said:


> Requiring rent is helpful in building responsibility. Read James Lehman's stuff on rules and boundaries with adult children.


To be honest, that was more for our benefit not charging him rent. I love my son but I don't like him most of the time. I love him AND like him when he's not living here a whole lot more. He doesn't spend his money on anything except his phone bill, so he's good at saving. Plan was for him to save up to buy his own car, then move out, quickly as possible. He was about a month away(financially)from being able to buy his own car


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## unbelievable

Marriedwithdogs said:


> Yes, hubby is in agreement as well! We just feel like failures as parents and keep asking ourselves where we went wrong? He's immature in his thinking. He has no interest in joining the military. Hubby was a drill sgt in real life and kinda parents that way too. Probably why he has no interest in joining. He may have no choice when his 30 days runs out


Adults do things because they are necessary, not because they always blow our skirts up. I've taken jobs I wasn't particularly thrilled about. Maybe he has no interest in joining the Army but does he have a better option? Three hots, a cot, spiffy color-coordinated outfits, free travel to exotic lands, steady paycheck, money for college, thoughtful sergeants who will happily help him with his discipline deficiencies. Where's he going to get a better deal than that? They could turn him into a stair-sweeping master in less than a week. They would teach him to lose the muttering and to sound off like he had a pair.


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## Thundarr

Marriedwithdogs said:


> To be honest, that was more for our benefit not charging him rent. I love my son but I don't like him most of the time. I love him AND like him when he's not living here a whole lot more. He doesn't spend his money on anything except his phone bill, so he's good at saving. Plan was for him to save up to buy his own car, then move out, quickly as possible. He was about a month away(financially)from being able to buy his own car


It's a struggle many of us have gone through or will go through. Adulthood and responsibilities can be uncomfortable. Moving out and getting a place and learning how to manage new bills like utilities or how to get along with a new room mate; these things take work so it's a whole easier to stay with mom and dad. 

It's not always a problem for young adults to live at home but there are red flags of when it's starting to be. Not following house rules or thinking they are adults so they can't be told do have chores or curfews and stuff like that. Those are signs of not be connected with the reality about the home owner setting house rules. So if you son isn't doing what's asked of him to stay then I don't see what other choice you have but to make him move out. Honestly letting him stay and not follow rules would be harmful to his development IMO.


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## MountainRunner

I've raised over a dozen teenagers (most from broken homes)...You weren't too harsh on him. I probably would have went "Wrath of God" on his a$$ the moment I heard the grumbling and told him to start packing. I gave my son one day when I kicked him out a few years back when his drinking was out of control (just got out of the military) and he laughingly tried to pick a fight with me while in a drunken stupor.


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## Duguesclin

Marriedwithdogs, do you have conversations with your son? Do you have other ways to connect with him other than giving him chores?

From the few facts you have shared, he seems a pretty good kid. Not sweeping the stairs and arguing with you is not acceptable and is indicative of some issues. Have you thought of why he behaves that way?

You are going to teach him a lesson by kicking him out, no question. But what about you? This decision will not only affect him but also you.

I am not saying that what he did was acceptable but punishing him will also punish you.

Please try to reach out to him and talk to him as an adult.


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## Cynthia

I don't think you were too harsh, however, I would give him an opportunity to repent, so he will be able to purchase a car and save up to find a rental. But if he won't apologize and agree to the rules of the house, then out he goes.


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## Marriedwithdogs

Cynthia, I was totally hoping that he would at least have a remorseful or repentant attitude but he still doesn't get it. I talked to him calmly again about this later that night. I gave him an analogy and put things in question form that would make him have to think. I asked him, what if your boss said," hey I notice that you are a good worker but lately you've been coming in late, can you work on that"? I asked him how he would respond and of course he said he would tell him, yes sir and comply. I asked him why. He said bc that's his boss. I said yes, and bc you're getting something out of it which is money. I said you may think you're not getting anything out of sweeping but you are getting free room and board, home cooked meals, and support. He always goes back to the "you guys act like I'm partying or doing drugs". He just doesn't get it. He's just very immature more immature than he should be at 19....at least in his thought process.


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## Marriedwithdogs

Duguesclin said:


> Marriedwithdogs, do you have conversations with your son? Do you have other ways to connect with him other than giving him chores?
> 
> From the few facts you have shared, he seems a pretty good kid. Not sweeping the stairs and arguing with you is not acceptable and is indicative of some issues. Have you thought of why he behaves that way?
> 
> You are going to teach him a lesson by kicking him out, no question. But what about you? This decision will not only affect him but also you.
> 
> I am not saying that what he did was acceptable but punishing him will also punish you.
> 
> Please try to reach out to him and talk to him as an adult.


Yes we talk. He'll come in my room and chat, we go to lunch about once a month. He has the typical teen syndrome though. When he's home he's locked in his room with his phone and laptop. The only thing he's passionate about right now is football. Sadly he has an inflated ego and thinks he's better than he actually is. He was always an average player, never great. It's good to have a passion and the dream, but if you don't have it, you just don't have it. He thinks some community college will scout him out and give him a scholarship to a university. He wasn't good enough at his last comm college so they red shirted him. Comes back home and goes to the local comm college, and they aren't impressed with him either. He's more concerned with this dream than reality. He told me he'll just keep going to different community colleges till one will "notice" him and let him play. If anything is "wrong" it's probably that! I told him that's not realistic and he needs to focus on his career path. 5 min later he's on Twitter saying that he "needs to be around ppl who are supportive". Sigh


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## Mr.Fisty

We learn through negative stimulus the best. On a scale of positive and negative, negative will always have more weight. If a trusted person lied and deceived you, you learn quickly not to trust that person, or not to trust as deeply. All the truthfulness of before has less weight compared to that one lie.

Once you cut the strings, and him learning through failure, will be a better teacher for him in the long run. You cannot instill wisdom to someone who has placed a barrier up. As much as it hurts you to see your son stumble, for his benefit, he must be allowed to.


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## Jasel

Sounds like you did the right thing. Now that you've told him he has 30 days to move out however, you can't turn around and give him an out. He's not showing you respect, and if you back down all he's going to do is lose even more respect for you and be even less willing to change.


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## NextTimeAround

Maybe this avice can help or maybe for later, but you could collect "rent" from your son to be saved for buying a car or anything else you deem worth while.

I had 3 siblings still at home when I came back to hometown as an adult to look for work. My parents hassled me with so much housework (including cleaning my brother's pi$$ off the toilet seats, I'm sure my mother doesn't ermbmer that.)

they tried charging me rent but collected it only once. I finally found a decent paying job and moved out. (although a couple of times when I dripped in to visit, my mother asked me to clean up. I had to remind her that I don't live there anymore.)

Sadly, my younger siblings got a cush deal by comparison. My brother was a lawyer at a law firm, lived with my parents for 2 years, no housework, no rent demanded.

A younger sister has been living with my parents off and on, several years well into her 30s. no rent paid. No housework done. Floor of room filled with so much stuff, you're ankle deep after a few steps.

This younger sister while still working wants to move in with my mother again. she's now in her 40s.

I hope that you treat your children more equitably.


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## sisters359

This is actually a much harder call that it seems. On the one hand, a 19 year old who is responsible about work and school is doing pretty well. On the other, it's your house and if he chooses to live in it, he needs to respect your rules. And while it is silly to grumble about a 5 minute chore, it seems like an over-reaction to throw someone out for a bit of grumbling.

I agree that threats are useless (only serious warnings matter), but I also know from personal experience that backing away from an over-reaction is ok, too. Maybe what you really need is a "re-start," where you admit to over reacting and then clarify your expectations about shared living space, and how adults need to think of others in the shared living space--and if he chooses to live with you, he needs to respect that without argument (he doesn't have to like it, and grumbling to himself isn't arguing with you). I would also explain to him that as you get older, you could use more help--even if you are still relatively young, this is true. And finally, simply by being together, you all make a bit more work for one another. The trade off is, getting to enjoy one another on a regular basis and support. 

My 25 yo is living at home. He lived in China for 1.5 years and was away at college for 4 years. He is now in school and working part-time. I try to teach-as-I-go, noticing and acknowledging the good, reminding about the not-so-good. He's very responsive and now notices things that need to be done (which he didn't do as a teen), and even notices and thanks ME for what I do. It's been a beautiful thing to see, and a long time coming (typical slob in college), and while I am excited that he will be living independently before too long, I will miss this fine young man who adds fun and humor to my life. 

Raising kids is never easy. Whatever you decide, good luck.

ETA: He is still a teen and his brain isn't done growing. But he does not sound too impulsive if he's solid on school and work. My son had a dream to be a "successful businessman in China," and while that could still happen, he was unrealistic about how quickly something like that can happen. I just smiled and supported him as best as I could--he wasn't doing any harm in the process, and coming to terms with one's own limitations (then figuring out a way to use one's strengths to compensate for those limitations) is part of growing up. Your son isn't doing any harm, either, since he's continuing in school--and besides, our kids do have to learn through their own mistakes. IME, your lack of support is simply an impetus to him to "prove you wrong," (very teen thinking). Let him make his own mistakes as long as they aren't life threatening (drugs, alcohol). Have expectations about shared living space, but make sure he knows that his life is his own to determine--try not to comment and if he asks for advice, give him possibilities (not a set path you think is the only correct way; there is never only one right way!). Again, best of luck for whatever you decide.


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## toonaive

Marriedwithdogs said:


> Last yr my 19 yo decided to go to a community college 2 hrs away for the experience of being away from us and playing for the football team (bc the one where we live isn't good enough).
> 
> When he didn't make the team,and couldn't find a job there(jobs abound here) he decided to move back. He doesn't have a car, so he's using our car. We are not charging him rent bc we wanthim to save up for a car, and eventually save enough to get his own Place. He's gong to school part time and working part time. That's the background.
> 
> We are a military family so we've always been about character and respect, and having a good work ethic. We never showered our kids with gifts/money,, yet unfortunately our older two have an entitlement mindset,.
> 
> My son has ONE chore he has to do before he leaves for work, which is sweeping the stairs. He has the easiest chore in the house. There have been times he hasn't done it, and times he's grumbled about it. Today I had enough. I told him he needed to sweep,and he starts mumbling under his breath, "well so and so didn't do their chore. Keep in mind all the chores get done by 6pm, and he leaves for work at 3:45...of course that's the reason they aren't done. Mind you he still has his breakfast dishes left out, and rarely cleans up after himself without someone telling him to. I told him he had 30 days to move out, find a roommate, do whatever you have to do, but you can't stay here if you are gonna argue with me over a 5 min chore and not pick up after yourself. I do NOT put up with talking back and being disrespected, and of course he only does it when my hubby isn't around.
> 
> Part of me feels like it will humble him and teach him a lesson, but the other part of me feels like it might lead him down the wrong path. Am I over reacting?


My middle son came to me shortly before graduating high school. He wanted to stay at home and take some computer classes in electronic music. I thought about it for a couple of days(I only needed 2 minutes) . Then sat him down in my home office and gave him three choices. College, Military, or if he stays at home, he will need a full time job, he will pay rent and utilities, and he will have to save for a car. I gave him 2 days to figure it out. He then came to me and said he would go to College. Good choice son!. He is now on the Deans list for academic excellence. :smthumbup:

You have to set limits, and be prepared to follow through. Especially if they have been used to none in the past. This scenario worked out well for me. For some it might take longer. You just have to keep at them.


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## batsociety

If I were you I'd start with charging him rent rather than booting him out. That's kind of heavy. Make not doing his chores more taxing than doing them, like $10 for every day he doesn't do what he's supposed to. 



Marriedwithdogs said:


> We just feel like failures as parents and keep asking ourselves where we went wrong?


Don't think like this. He's a 19-year-old kid, this behavior is typical.


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## sisters359

I could't articulate something that I felt before--here it is: How do you negotiate conflict in your home? The story you relate seems to say, "My way or the highway," which is fine if you are setting boundaries, and if that's what you are doing, ok. But, can he express and negotiate on other things? Because if the lesson is, "I will leave when things become confrontational," it is not a good lesson. I'm guessing you have given your kids other ways to express dissatisfaction, but that is not apparent from what your original post said, and it was just something I couldn't put my finger on 'til now. Good luck!


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## Yeswecan

sisters359 said:


> I could't articulate something that I felt before--here it is: How do you negotiate conflict in your home? The story you relate seems to say, "My way or the highway," which is fine if you are setting boundaries, and if that's what you are doing, ok. But, can he express and negotiate on other things? Because if the lesson is, "I will leave when things become confrontational," it is not a good lesson. I'm guessing you have given your kids other ways to express dissatisfaction, but that is not apparent from what your original post said, and it was just something I couldn't put my finger on 'til now. Good luck!


My way or the highway? The home belongs to mom and dad. At the age of 18 a child basically becomes a tenant. It is the rules set forth by the parent. There is no negotiation. There are no lessons being taught here. It is simple respect to abide by 1 chore assigned to a 19 year old. Sweep the steps. 

OP, my mother threw my sister and brother out for similar type things as your son is doing. I'm talking filling Hefty bags with their clothing type thrown out. Both survived and are very successful. My W and I have a 20 year old. She is working and going to college, etc. We run into this from time to time. A gentle reminder that she is an adult and we expect her to conduct herself like one is all we ask. She will be supported in all she does. All we ask is help around the house. It works.


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## Thundarr

Yeswecan said:


> My way or the highway? The home belongs to mom and dad. At the age of 18 a child basically becomes a tenant. It is the rules set forth by the parent. There is no negotiation. There are no lessons being taught here. It is simple respect to abide by 1 chore assigned to a 19 year old. Sweep the steps.
> 
> OP, my mother threw my sister and brother out for similar type things as your son is doing. I'm talking filling Hefty bags with their clothing type thrown out. Both survived and are very successful. My W and I have a 20 year old. She is working and going to college, etc. We run into this from time to time. A gentle reminder that she is an adult and we expect her to conduct herself like one is all we ask. She will be supported in all she does. All we ask is help around the house. It works.


I agree. We have to do what we think is the best thing for our kids. It's awesome when we can do this and at the same time help out and get to see them every day. But honestly that's up to them because once they feel entitled rather than grateful then we're harming them by letting it continue. I see over and over IRL and on forums where parents react out of fear and guilt and end up crippling their kids. That's the last thing parents want to do but it happens every day. And guess who the kids resent and blame later on?


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## sisters359

> My way or the highway? The home belongs to mom and dad. At the age of 18 a child basically becomes a tenant. It is the rules set forth by the parent. There is no negotiation. There are no lessons being taught here. It is simple respect to abide by 1 chore assigned to a 19 year old. Sweep the steps.


In my world, we are all always learning. Me and my kids. So, as I said, IF she is setting boundaries and this is, for her, simply a matter of that, then maybe she should feel ok with throwing the kid out. On the other hand, it is also possible to turn this into a teachable moment--about how to express discontent about things we cannot change (ie, the house rules). A tenant has more rights than the kid in this situation, by the way. A tenant can express discontent without getting thrown out. 

My kids know I don't threaten--I warn. When I state the consequences that will follow a behavior of which I disapprove, they know I will follow through. They tell their friends that (I've heard them). But they also know how to talk to me about things that they find irksome, and I know how to respond thoughtfully. They are wonderfully respectful teens and young adults now, and I am so proud of them. Two of them were very difficult children to raise, so I am even more astonished and proud of how well they have turned out. As a high school teacher, I see as many kids suffering from heavy-handed parenting as from passive, overly involved parenting, and I am thankful I was able to find a path between those two. 

There is rarely only one good way to do something.


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## Thundarr

sisters359 said:


> In my world, we are all always learning. Me and my kids. So, as I said, IF she is setting boundaries and this is, for her, simply a matter of that, then maybe she should feel ok with throwing the kid out. On the other hand, it is also possible to turn this into a teachable moment--about how to express discontent about things we cannot change (ie, the house rules). A tenant has more rights than the kid in this situation, by the way. A tenant can express discontent without getting thrown out.
> 
> My kids know I don't threaten--I warn. When I state the consequences that will follow a behavior of which I disapprove, they know I will follow through. They tell their friends that (I've heard them). But they also know how to talk to me about things that they find irksome, and I know how to respond thoughtfully. They are wonderfully respectful teens and young adults now, and I am so proud of them. Two of them were very difficult children to raise, so I am even more astonished and proud of how well they have turned out. As a high school teacher, I see as many kids suffering from heavy-handed parenting as from passive, overly involved parenting, and I am thankful I was able to find a path between those two.
> 
> There is rarely only one good way to do something.


The fact that "serious as a heart attack you" is respected gives you some breathing room to not sweat the small stuff or to pick and choose battles and teaching moments. At the bottom of everything is that your kids believe that you will follow through. Imagine that's not the case though and you're left with few good options until you gain that respect back. So yes there's more ways than one to solve many problems. There are also principles that almost always spell a downward spiral if not corrected. In this case Marriedwithdogs's son has to respect house rules before other things can happen.


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## turnera

Marriedwithdogs said:


> Hubby was a drill sgt in real life and kinda parents that way too. Probably why he has no interest in joining.


Well, there's your answer. Some people respond to drill sgt tactics, some rebel. Yours rebels. 

IIWY, I would put down the deposit and one month's rent on an apartment, hand him the keys and address, and tell him you wish him well, but you won't be rescuing him any more. Let him fail or succeed, on his terms.


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## Bellavista

We have had a couple of our kids move out and move back in, our eldest son about 4 times now. Our 20 yo daughter lives away from home for study, but comes home for a couple of days on holidays and the occasional weekend.
Every time one of the adult kids comes home, whether to live or visit, we have noticed the same phenomenon, they revert back to being like dependant kids again. I thought we had failed to raise them to be adults, however, in talking this over with some friends, we realised it is the same with just about every person. The kids just naturally go back to being kids again and drop the adult mentality.
As for asking your son to move out, it can be the making of him. The second last time our eldest son came home, we ended up asking him to leave, even though we knew the possibility was high that he would end up living on the street.
It was very hard to do, it broke my heart, but he was 25 and a big time loser. It made him grow up, he moved 600km away from where we were and had to sort himself out. The last time he was here was only for a couple of weeks while he was organising moving back down to where we live. No, he is not perfect now, but he has a part time job, he is studying at uni and he does not drink as much.
Sometimes removing the kids from the situation where they are in the mentality of being kids and making them face life as an adult does help.


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## turnera

And refusing to TREAT them like a kid when they do come home helps, too. You want a drink? Go get it. Your clothes are dirty? Sucks to be you, huh? There's the washing machine.


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## Sammiee

It might have been too harsh but you already did it and you have to stay the course or he'll just continue to crap all over you.


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