# Thanks to all and one piece of advice for new posters



## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Firstly, I'd like to say thanks to all of the posters I've spoken with over the years on TAM. Most are very helpful and insightful and have the best of intentions at heart. You guys/gals are great, and I hope you keep it up.

I have been posting here a fair bit but have dropped back to being more of an observer the last year or so. Still, great info and advice most of the time, glad to see it's being kept up.

To any new posters, I offer one piece of advice before you go forward into trying to solve your sexual issues in your relationship/marriage. Be sure you have a partner who wants to solve them as well.

And I mean really be sure. Not just says they want to but actually puts forward the effort as well. Anyone can say they want to, but if you truly want something you work toward achieving it and make an honest effort to do so.

Anything in marriage, whether it be finances, children, sex, whatever, it all should be viewed from a team concept. There is two people on this team, so if one of you isn't wanting to work to improve the situation then that means 50% of the team isn't working toward that improvement. No team can improve with only half of it making a full effort to do so.

That doesn't mean there's something wrong with your spouse, and your partner shouldn't be thrown under the bus, they certainly can still care about you a lot as a whole, but there's also little point in working toward achieving a goal that requires both people to put in substantial effort when only one of you have a definitive interest in doing so.

Reading through so many posts, there is a lot of frustration on these boards from posters who have said "I tried X, Y and Z, and then tried Q and S as well and it didn't help." That's likely because your partner just isn't interested in sex, or interested in sex with you. Until your partner comes around and wants to make things better, there's not much point digging to deeply on these boards. Solve that issue first, because that is the real root problem. If your partner equates having sex with you to doing a load of laundry or reshingling the roof, it doesn't matter how much you study up on giving good oral or doing the reverse cowgirl. It may help briefly, but you'll quickly return to square one. Get him/her to want to improve the sex life, then work on improving it.

Easier said than done I know, but it's best to focus your energy on the solution than on finding a band-aid.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Easier said than done!


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Very wise words. 
Team work is vital.

We live in a country where manicures/pedicures are a normal atleast once a month.
My wife and 12 year old daughter had a manicure/pedicure this morning. 
I specifically said that I did not want our daughter to have any nail varnish other than clear or a very pale, subtle colour indeed.

She come home with bright red finger nails and bright green toenails. 
My wifes response - she's on holiday (from school). 
She looks like a tart.

Team work? yeah right. My wife probably did it just to pi$$ me off.

One of the many reasons I have no time for her.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The nail polish colors are fine - she's 12! 

Unless you live in a non enlightened part of the world...


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

My 7 and 4 year old play with bright nail polish all the time. 

She looks like a tart? Because of her nail polish? I don't see how that's possible.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Its up to aksari to feel how he feels about his daughters nails. Who's to say which part of the world is more enlightened than another? It's all about perspective.

What I feel is a gross overreaction he may feel is an underreaction.

OP - great advice.


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

kingsfan, how about an update? Did you marry your fiancé? Did things improve?


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Firstly, I'd like to say thanks to all of the posters I've spoken with over the years on TAM. Most are very helpful and insightful and have the best of intentions at heart. You guys/gals are great, and I hope you keep it up.
> 
> I have been posting here a fair bit but have dropped back to being more of an observer the last year or so. Still, great info and advice most of the time, glad to see it's being kept up.
> 
> ...



KingsFan, this is great advice and VERY well said! Thank you for sharing. :smthumbup:

I have found your words to be so true in life....change in people only happens when they themselves WANT to change. It comes from a need or want within themselves. Sometimes we can help uncover that need or want, but ultimately it has to be their decision to WANT to change. 

Larry Winget says that people usually change when they get uncomfortable with themselves. Unfortunately, it sometimes takes something big to happen to make someone uncomfortable: One of his many examples is with people who smoke. Many times people want to stop smoking, they know the dangers of smoking, but they only take action and CHANGE once they get diagnosed with cancer....only then do they get serious and do it.

Another example he mentions....people want to eat healthy, they know the dangers of eating high fat foods every day, but they only take action and CHANGE once they have a heart attack....only then do they get serious about it.

I have read so many stories on TAM about spouses that have had to walk out and head toward a divorce before the other spouse realizes a change is needed. It is only then that they get serious and do it. Isn't it a shame that some people need such a dramatic wake up call to take action in their life? 

Thanks again for your awesome post Kingsfan. I will print it out and teach this very important lesson to my son.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

john117 said:


> The nail polish colors are fine - she's 12!
> 
> Unless you live in a non enlightened part of the world...


If he says it's not fine then it's not.

I teach in a Catholic middle school in south Florida, and I have a plethora of enlightened and successful cheerleaders, academic Olympians, dancers, artists, award writers, athletes, etc. They are PLENTY enlightened... But, they cannot paint their nails, and all our parents are okay with these rules, half wouldn't mind their daughters painting them but follow the rules very cooperatively, the other half probably still wouldn't allow it even if we didn't have that rule.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Has any of those Olympian academics and assorted high achievers ever questioned the utility or purpose of the no nail polish rule on 12 year olds???

Enlightenment comes from questioning everything and ultimately finding purpose, not by following rules just because. If I told my kids to not paint their toes like Pokemon because the nail polish increases their risk of some horrible nail ailment they'd probably go along with it. I could pull rank and they could probably go along with it too. But just because... May not be a valid reason for them.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I don't think that's the point. The point is it's his child, his culture and not ours. I have a huge problem with the presumptive nature of us in the west. What makes us so damn high and mighty that we believe we are more enlightened than everybody else? Who is to say who is right? I don't have a problem with it but Im not going to call somebody out if they do. 



john117 said:


> Has any of those Olympian academics and assorted high achievers ever questioned the utility or purpose of the no nail polish rule on 12 year olds???
> 
> Enlightenment comes from questioning everything and ultimately finding purpose, not by following rules just because. If I told my kids to not paint their toes like Pokemon because the nail polish increases their risk of some horrible nail ailment they'd probably go along with it. I could pull rank and they could probably go along with it too. But just because... May not be a valid reason for them.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

john117 said:


> Has any of those Olympian academics and assorted high achievers ever questioned the utility or purpose of the no nail polish rule on 12 year olds???


Well, of course... It has been the topic of some argumentative writing in my class. Why?



john117 said:


> Enlightenment comes from questioning everything and ultimately finding purpose, not by following rules just because. If I told my kids to not paint their toes like Pokemon because the nail polish increases their risk of some horrible nail ailment they'd probably go along with it. I could pull rank and they could probably go along with it too. But just because... May not be a valid reason for them.


Of course, but you follow them while you question them... Unless you feel they are such a violation of human rights that you must move to civil or violent disobedience, you still follow them. 

I don't agree with 55 mph on the highway for myself, but I still follow it.

As it happens valid are the reasons to most of our parents and teachers. Uniformity, inner self expression vs outer self expression, and other issues they learn to grow into... There's no way I'm going to elaborate on the intricacies of private school rules on nails. Suffice it, please, to say there is quite the extensive rationale that ultimately you wouldn't agree with anyway. Once they hit ninth grade, they can color them all they want. 

Such a school as ours you probably wouldn't be interested in. However, people like the OP might be, and there are many others.

I don't think there is a problem with it personally, but I don't run my school. If it's okay with you that a parent would let a young girl cosmetically paint her nails, I would like to assume it's also okay with you a parent would prefer the nails plain.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I hope you're doing well, kingsfan. I think about you often, and I hope you're doing well in your relationship.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Kari said:


> kingsfan, how about an update? Did you marry your fiancé? Did things improve?


Sorry for not replying earlier. True to my words I sort of took a bit of a sabattical from these forums for a few days/weeks. 

We aren't married, wedding is postponed as money was tight due to a death in the family that resulted in a very expensive flight/stay out of province. So we bumped it back to next year.

Did things improve...I assume you mean sexually. No, they didn't. I'd have to say they got worse. Rest of the relationship I fear is suffering as a result, or at least partly.



I Notice The Details said:


> KingsFan, this is great advice and VERY well said! Thank you for sharing. :smthumbup:
> 
> I have found your words to be so true in life....change in people only happens when they themselves WANT to change. It comes from a need or want within themselves. Sometimes we can help uncover that need or want, but ultimately it has to be their decision to WANT to change.
> 
> ...


Teach your son, as I will teach mine. It really was amazing looking back on when I was growing up just how little society expected you to value sexual compatibility in a relationship. You were expected to never stray and take whatever came your way, regardless of how much or -far more often- how little. 

Your partner wants to gamble away the house? Get a divorce!
Your partner wants to spend you into the poor house? Get a divorce!
Your partner assaults you? Get a divorce!
Your partner is an alcoholic? Get a divorce!
Your partner just isn't to interested in sex with you? Stay and take it!

I plan to explain to my children in very clear terms that if sex is important to you, find someone who shares the same mind set and also understands that if sex loses its importance to them, that doesn't mean it loses its importance to you, nor should it. If your sex drive was a switch you could turn on and off at will, there wouldn't be the very forum we are all posting on.



Created2Write said:


> I hope you're doing well, kingsfan. I think about you often, and I hope you're doing well in your relationship.


Thanks C2W, nice to see you are still posting away here! I'm doing well, though the bedroom could use improvement! How's the book coming along?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Why would you marry if your sex life prior to marriage is poor. Marriage is not exactly an aphrodisiac for many.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Why would you marry if your sex life prior to marriage is poor. Marriage is not exactly an aphrodisiac for many.


Nor am I expecting it to be. But I have a lot of other parameters that go into it, a story I have posted many times on here so I'm not going into it again.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Thanks C2W, nice to see you are still posting away here! I'm doing well, though the bedroom could use improvement! How's the book coming along?


The book is now a seven part series.  But, given how lengthy my posts are here, I doubt that comes as a surprise. lol. 

You're a very patient guy. I really commend you for that. I know your fiance has had some sexual abuse issues(I think?), and it's really honorable for you to put her first. I just hope you realize that your needs aren't any less important than hers. And I hope she realizes that too.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> The book is now a seven part series.  But, given how lengthy my posts are here, I doubt that comes as a surprise. lol.
> 
> You're a very patient guy. I really commend you for that. I know your fiance has had some sexual abuse issues(I think?), and it's really honorable for you to put her first. I just hope you realize that your needs aren't any less important than hers. And I hope she realizes that too.


You do recall correct. Assaulted at 14 and in a few other abusive relationships (sexually and otherwise) after. She often says I am the only person she's been in a relationship with (long-term or otherwise) who seems to even give a **** about her, nevermind put her first. 

She does put me first in somethings and I put her first in somethings. Unfortunately for me, sex isn't something that I feel she puts forward the best effort, but again, that also likely stems from her past, at least in part. Kind of a visicious circle really. 

Glad to hear the book is coming along well. I have been slowly working away at one of my own. Well, more like I have started about a dozen different stories but haven't finish anything yet. Ideas are easy to come by, but having the time to properly expand on them and give them the depth and range they deserve is another. Friendly wager says you'll be a best selling author before I get done chapter three on anything I started, lol.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> You do recall correct. Assaulted at 14 and in a few other abusive relationships (sexually and otherwise) after. She often says I am the only person she's been in a relationship with (long-term or otherwise) who seems to even give a **** about her, nevermind put her first.
> 
> She does put me first in somethings and I put her first in somethings. Unfortunately for me, sex isn't something that I feel she puts forward the best effort, but again, that also likely stems from her past, at least in part. Kind of a visicious circle really.


I can't even imagine the struggle that must be for both of you. I'm sure this is probably a question you've been asked a thousand times, but out of curiosity, is she in counseling? If so, has she discussed sex with her counselor? Because it's incredibly unfair of her to return your patience, love, and acceptance with less than the best she has to offer. 



> Glad to hear the book is coming along well. I have been slowly working away at one of my own. Well, more like I have started about a dozen different stories but haven't finish anything yet. Ideas are easy to come by, but having the time to properly expand on them and give them the depth and range they deserve is another. Friendly wager says you'll be a best selling author before I get done chapter three on anything I started, lol.


LOL! Well, I seem to have the same issue you do: I start so many stories it's difficult to dedicate myself to just one. My fantasy series is too mature and complicated for the writer I am right now, so I'm focusing on something less complicated. Although, what started as a basic, easy plot is developing into a more complicated political endeavor, so I guess I can't turn off the imaginative aspect of my brain. 

And I accept your wager.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I can't even imagine the struggle that must be for both of you. I'm sure this is probably a question you've been asked a thousand times, but out of curiosity, is she in counseling? If so, has she discussed sex with her counselor? Because it's incredibly unfair of her to return your patience, love, and acceptance with less than the best she has to offer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She is in counselling and does discuss sex, though I'm not sure to what depth. I don't usually ask much about her counselling sessions, I let her tell me what she's comfortable with. 

I'm not certain she's returning less than the best she has to offer, which is the concerning part for me right now. I do feel she doesn't try as hard as she can, but I don't know if I'm 100% correct in that assumption either as sex is a difficult issue for her obviously. So I am quite confused at times about what is/isn't to be expected from her and from the relationship. 

Regarding writing, right now my current topic of the day is a simple reflection on a road trip I took for work, and recapping a journey down memory lane of sorts. I have considered doing something similar to what you are writing about now, but I prefer ideas that allow for the mind to wander and have more imagination and also I don't want to write about something I have been involved with on a work level, and I spent a few years working in municipal politics so I think I'd get as bored writing about it as I was while doing the work, lol.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

We live in a relatively cosmopolitan but still third world African country...not that it makles much difference!

My daughter, like most other young girls, used to play around with nail varnish and 'kids' make up when she was younger and I didn't object because it was simply 'playing'.

The difference now is that she is 12 going on 18. She wants to wear 'proper' make up when she goes out - I won't let her. She wants to have 'proper' nail varnish....act like an 18 year old! 
In teh US you have junior prom queens (??) - 8-9 year old girls who's parents dress and make them up so that they look like 18 year old Marilyn Munroe's! Ugh! They have all their life to wear make up etc....let children be children...


But the crux of it is that my wife totally and utterly ignored my feelings. She didnt even 'try' a compromise, she went for traffic light colours just to defy me.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> She is in counselling and does discuss sex, though I'm not sure to what depth. I don't usually ask much about her counselling sessions, I let her tell me what she's comfortable with.
> 
> I'm not certain she's returning less than the best she has to offer, which is the concerning part for me right now. I do feel she doesn't try as hard as she can, but I don't know if I'm 100% correct in that assumption either as sex is a difficult issue for her obviously. So I am quite confused at times about what is/isn't to be expected from her and from the relationship.


That is so unbelievably tough.  I'm really sorry. Hopefully her counselor is encouraging her to move past the sexual abuse, and realize that _you_ are not her abuser; you are a _safe_ place where her sexuality can be allowed to blossom and flourish. But practicing that is, of course, up to her. I hope she really is trying, and I hope she continues to do what she can for you. You clearly deserve to be loved and accepted sexually, since you have loved and accepted her. 



> Regarding writing, right now my current topic of the day is a simple reflection on a road trip I took for work, and recapping a journey down memory lane of sorts. I have considered doing something similar to what you are writing about now, but I prefer ideas that allow for the mind to wander and have more imagination and also I don't want to write about something I have been involved with on a work level, and I spent a few years working in municipal politics so I think I'd get as bored writing about it as I was while doing the work, lol.


Yeah...my writing has been mostly poetry lately. A little in my sci-fi story, but mostly poetry. It helps me get through the difficult times like nothing else does, so it's my literary default. I hope to dedicate more time to my stories soon.


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