# Finally took a stand against the silent treatment



## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

My H has been giving me the silent treatment since Monday evening and for the life of me I had no idea why. This is a tactic he's used against me for our entire 15 year marriage. I've told him many times that he needs to tell me when he feels I've done something wrong so we can address it at the time, instead of letting it fester. That's not his style because he claims he doesn't want to argue, so he'd rather shut down. Whenever he does this I go through various emotional stages. Day one is like "what the hell happened and why is he giving me one word answers?" Day two I'm enjoying the peace and quiet, not worrying about cooking but still wondering what I allegedly did this time. By day three I'm totally fed up and ready to go to war. This is also the day when he's ready to put it all behind him as if nothing ever happened, or deflect the issue onto me as if I started it. 

Well, today is Day Three and enough is enough! I've done some soul searching and decided that I not only deserve better but if I stay in this situation I may end up doing something to him that will feel good for a moment but hurt me more than him in the long run; like punching him in his face, cutting up his clothes, or any of the other ways I've fantasized about hurting him. He's not worth my bail money. When I got home from work he tried to talk to me but I said it's too late. I'm done with him and done with us. If I didn't have something important to do at work today I would have stayed home and packed, but instead I decided not to spend money on a hotel or leave the home that I pay the mortgage on. So I will take my time and make a plan that won't put my money or credit at risk. I don't need to talk to him & he doesn't need to talk to me. I told him all of this and he told me not to threaten him. I said it's not a threat and I've been telling him for years that there will come a day when I decide I can't take it anymore and that day is today. 

This was supposed to be a nice holiday weekend but he's messed it up. We were to attend his coworker's out of town wedding this weekend but I texted H earlier to say I won't be attending but he didn't respond. Tonight he asked me if I'm still going and I said I don't plan to go anywhere with someone who isn't speaking to me, I have no desire to fake it for his friends, and unhappily married people should not take their negative energy to a wedding. And with that he left and I say good riddance. I do feel bad because I have never skipped a wedding that I've rsvp yes to but I have to put myself first and not think about the feelings of strangers. My H shouldn't have put me in this position over nothing.

By the way, I learned that he stopped speaking because I mentioned a problem with the oven and he took it personally because he thought I was blaming him. I never would have guessed. I really can't take another year of this craziness.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Mrs.X said:


> By the way, I learned that he stopped speaking because I mentioned a problem with the oven and he took it personally because he thought I was blaming him.


Good for you, X.

But I have to ask. Where you P-A about the oven problem? Is there something more to this? What* exactly* did you say to him?

I don't doubt you. Just want to make sure you are 100% in the clear before you pull the trigger.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> Good for you, X.
> 
> But I have to ask. Where you P-A about the oven problem? Is there something more to this? What* exactly* did you say to him?
> 
> I don't doubt you. Just want to make sure you are 100% in the clear before you pull the trigger.


I was frustrated about the oven but this isn't a new issue. I've mentioned it several times before but I know that I have to schedule the service because I'm the one who uses it and I in no way made it about him. He makes things about him and takes everything personally and constantly accuses me of being mad or having an attitude when I don't. I'm on eggshells all the time because the wrong tone of voice or wrong facial expression can land me in radio silence for days. Trust me, if I don't pull the trigger now it will be pulled later because this is the pattern of our relationship. He has issues and won't get help.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Good for you. If there's any chance of him getting help it will be when you're out the door. 

He probably doesn't believe you're really going at this point, so be prepared for the begging to start once it sinks in. 

He won't know what to do without his emotional punching bag.

Not that you don't know, but the extended silent treatment is s control tactic, which is why he made the don't threaten him comment. That was his attempt to take control back from you. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Good for you. If there's any chance of him getting help it will be when you're out the door.
> 
> He probably doesn't believe you're really going at this point, so be prepared for the begging to start once it sinks in.
> 
> ...


Your response is a sign that I'm moving in the right direction. All day I've been thinking life is too short for this b/s. There are husbands and wives who left for work this morning and didn't make it home and I bet their loved ones aren't saying I wish I had another day to ignore him/her. My H has alienated his siblings & children from his life and doesn't see a problem with it. People and relationships are a hassle for him. He doesn't want help because he thinks he's right. At this point all I can do is help myself.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Well, lady I have lived this for 27 years and I can tell you that no matter what you do there will never be change. I met my husband when he was 29, I was 26. The first time he ignored me was on a trip across country. We were traveling, I was chatting, asking questions, normal stuff but he would not answer my questions. I asked him if he was ignoring me and he would not answer. I told him then to never ignore me and boy as soon as he knew this bothered me it became something he used against me. This is a control tactic.

I have tried to talk, understand, reason, we have been to counseling, I have yelled and cried but nothing has changed his habits. He blames and cannot take accountability for his actions. I have decided after 27 years of BS I am leaving. I have filed for divorce. This is NO way to live. There is no reasoning, life is not on mutual ground. I have become his punching bag.

Read about passive-aggressive men.

My advise to you is to RUN!!!!!!!! 

He will try to be sweet and bring you back....trust me they cannot change. There are serious issues with people like this. They need help but they cannot identify with the problem so they project and blame you.

Staying will beat you down emotionally to a point that you will lose your ability to trust your own judgement and live a happy life.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> Well, lady I have lived this for 27 years and I can tell you that no matter what you do there will never be change. I met my husband when he was 29, I was 26. The first time he ignored me was on a trip across country. We were traveling, I was chatting, asking questions, normal stuff but he would not answer my questions. I asked him if he was ignoring me and he would not answer. I told him then to never ignore me and boy as soon as he knew this bothered me it became something he used against me. This is a control tactic.
> 
> I have tried to talk, understand, reason, we have been to counseling, I have yelled and cried but nothing has changed his habits. He blames and cannot take accountability for his actions. I have decided after 27 years of BS I am leaving. I have filed for divorce. This is NO way to live. There is no reasoning, life is not on mutual ground. I have become his punching bag.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your story. It gives me hope knowing that you survived it. I know he'll try to reason with me but I'm past the point of being reasoned with. I saw a therapist on my own a few years ago and she asked why I would be with someone like him. I really don't know because I'm very strong willed and independent, which he hates. He has slowly chipped away whatever love I felt for him.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Good for you OP! As others have said, he'll really turn it on now - the begging, pleading, tears, promises of getting help...don't fall for it.

The silent treatment is the number one tactic of abusers, it's a very powerful way of controlling someone. Don't be controlled anymore.

Best of futures to you lovely lady x


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The man has been married to you for 15 years. Why would he believe that bringing up a concern to you would result in a fruitless argument?


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> The man has been married to you for 15 years. Why would he believe that bringing up a concern to you would result in a fruitless argument?


I'd take a fruitless argument over not speaking for days. Either way the situation was a big waste and based on a misunderstanding that would not have occurred had he not assumed he knows my feelings better than I do.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

I feel for you, I spent 20 years on the receiving end of moods and especially the silent treatment. I hate it, I loath it, I detest it. It is a incredibly mean and spiteful way to deal (I cant use the word communicate because there is no communication) with someone, especially someone you claim to love. It is not only emotionally abusive it is pathetic, for me it is the adult equivalent of the 2 year old child throwing a tantrum until they get what they want then they are all happy again.

I felt like my life was walking on eggshells, I had to think through and temper every comment made in case it could be taken personally.

I'm sad to say that my XW has been pulling the same s**t on my daughter, which I didn't think would happen, luckily daughter sees through it but it still upsets her.

Life away from it is amazing. I know you have 15 years invested but that is not reason to keep on going through it. If you give it another chance you need to tell him straight that he doesn't get to treat you like that and the next time you will take his silence as his desire to divorce.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

frusdil said:


> Good for you OP! As others have said, he'll really turn it on now - the begging, pleading, tears, promises of getting help...don't fall for it.
> 
> The silent treatment is the number one tactic of abusers, it's a very powerful way of controlling someone. Don't be controlled anymore.
> 
> Best of futures to you lovely lady x


Thanks so much. I feel really good about my decision as I look at apartments online. I'll drive my point home by moving into the spare bedroom.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Mrs.X said:


> Thanks for sharing your story. It gives me hope knowing that you survived it. I know he'll try to reason with me but I'm past the point of being reasoned with. I saw a therapist on my own a few years ago and she asked why I would be with someone like him. I really don't know because I'm very strong willed and independent, which he hates. He has slowly chipped away whatever love I felt for him.


I get it! Their logic is completely illogical and it does slow chip away at all love you have for your spouse and they don't get it, don't seem to care but your actions make them angry so they feel justified to ignore you or seek revenge in some sort. It is like dealing with a small child with a terrible temper.

In my case my husband is just like my mom and so thru counseling I learned there was initially a comfort with what I was familiar with. I had to draw boundaries with my mom, and even took a stand with her. I finally forgave her and when I forgave my mom I was finally able to let go of my husband. My mother no longer ruled my life....I no longer flt I had to please her and I no longer had the feelings hurt towards her when I forgave. In the process I was also letting my husband go and realized too with him I was no longer willing to play this game. I realized there was nothing I was going to do or say that would make a difference and I was no longer to live this way.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

WonkyNinja said:


> I feel for you, I spent 20 years on the receiving end of moods and especially the silent treatment. I hate it, I loath it, I detest it. It is a incredibly mean and spiteful way to deal (I cant use the word communicate because there is no communication) with someone, especially someone you claim to love. It is not only emotionally abusive it is pathetic, for me it is the adult equivalent of the 2 year old child throwing a tantrum until they get what they want then they are all happy again.
> 
> I felt like my life was walking on eggshells, I had to think through and temper every comment made in case it could be taken personally.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement. It's good to have a male POV on this issue. I agree that 15 years is too long to put up with this; hell 5 minutes is too long. In some ways I blame myself because there were lots of red flags before we got married. Back then I should have listened but we were in the process of buying a house and I didn't want to start over so to speak. Would have been a hell of a lot easier doing it back then but I'm past the point of thinking about all the years wasted. I'm just looking forward to a bright future and not worrying about gauging someone else's mood swings.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

While some "abusers" may use silent treatment, others use it as a defense mechanism.

With my exW I learned that when she was angry the WORST thing I could to do was engage her in discussion. Silence and just nodding in agreement was by far the best way to deal with her.

Food for thought.

OP, in order to give you advice you need to be honest. You mention thoughts of cutting his clothes and hitting him. Are you a hot head?

That text you sent... very Passive aggressive and sounds like and attempt to get a response out of him by telling him you weren't going. That is a form of manipulation.

I'm not saying you aren't right to be mad but you two need marriage counselling to sort out what's going on.

Because frankly, his silent treatment can either be a cause or a symptom.



frusdil said:


> Good for you OP! As others have said, he'll really turn it on now - the begging, pleading, tears, promises of getting help...don't fall for it.
> 
> The silent treatment is the number one tactic of abusers, it's a very powerful way of controlling someone. Don't be controlled anymore.
> 
> Best of futures to you lovely lady x


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> I get it! Their logic is completely illogical and it does slow chip away at all love you have for your spouse and they don't get it, don't seem to care but your actions make them angry so they feel justified to ignore you or seek revenge in some sort. It is like dealing with a small child with a terrible temper.
> 
> In my case my husband is just like my mom and so thru counseling I learned there was initially a comfort with what I was familiar with. I had to draw boundaries with my mom, and even took a stand with her. I finally forgave her and when I forgave my mom I was finally able to let go of my husband. My mother no longer ruled my life....I no longer flt I had to please her and I no longer had the feelings hurt towards her when I forgave. In the process I was also letting my husband go and realized too with him I was no longer willing to play this game. I realized there was nothing I was going to do or say that would make a difference and I was no longer to live this way.


That's an interesting connection between your spouse & your mom. I had issues with my (late) mom as well. She was not controlling but we had typical mother/daughter stuff. We were just very different and rarely saw eye-to-eye. Years ago I was telling her something about my husband (I don't recall what) and she agreed that he was dead wrong. When I broached the subject of leaving him she balked at that. I don't know if my family's misplaced adoration of my H have lead me to stay but at this point if he needs to continue to have a relationship with my dad I won't begrudge either of them. I don't think I've ever told anyone the full extent of my marital problems because it makes things awkward when the argument is over. I won't feel the need to justify my reasons for walking away to my family.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrs.X said:


> That's an interesting connection between your spouse & your mom. I had issues with my (late) mom as well. She was not controlling but we had typical mother/daughter stuff. We were just very different and rarely saw eye-to-eye. Years ago I was telling her something about my husband (I don't recall what) and she agreed that he was dead wrong. When I broached the subject of leaving him she balked at that. I don't know if my family's misplaced adoration of my H have lead me to stay but at this point if he needs to continue to have a relationship with my dad I won't begrudge either of them. I don't think I've ever told anyone the full extent of my marital problems because it makes things awkward when the argument is over. I won't feel the need to justify my reasons for walking away to my family.


This sounds very healthy. Let everyone have the relationship they want to have. Just reserve the same right for yourself.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Mrs.X said:


> Thanks so much. I feel really good about my decision as I look at apartments online. I'll drive my point home by moving into the spare bedroom.


I don't get the silent treatment thing. It's bs, I agree. However, how often does this happen? A few days of not talking and you want a divorce, and he has no chance at all? Pretty cold, I think.

Yes, he shouldn't do that crap, but again, how often is this?
Everyone is wick to say, yes, yes, divorce him. For not talking? Geez.
I'm just not seeing it I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

jdawg2015 said:


> While some "abusers" may use silent treatment, others use it as a defense mechanism.
> 
> With my exW I learned that when she was angry the WORST thing I could to do was engage her in discussion. Silence and just nodding in agreement was by far the best way to deal with her.
> 
> ...


I am a very even-tempered and cool-under pressure. I wouldn't consider myself a hot head but I can have internal fits of rage. There was one incident a few years ago when I threw a bottle of his cologne against a wall during an argument he started after days of giving me the silent treatment. So, yes under the right (or wrong) circumstances I can flip out. I know this about myself and I discussed it with my therapist. I recognize that a relationship without communication is not the ideal situation for me and that's why I want out. I have been asking my husband for years to go to marriage counseling and he flatly refused. I am not asking again. He has real problems, some of them he's acknowledged but he doesn't "believe" in therapy. In fact, he didn't even know that I was in therapy until I told him months later. I have to lie and keep secrets in order to keep the peace around here and frankly I'm sick of it. 

I sent the text because I wanted him to tell the groom, just in case there is time to rearrange the seating or whatever. I'm sure he won't tell him because he likes to give the appearance of being a great guy with a perfect marriage. I also reserved a hotel room and I tried to change the reservation from my name to his, but he'll have to deal with that himself when he gets there. The text may have been passive aggressive but had this happened 2 years ago or maybe even 2 weeks ago I would have just gone with the flow and attended the wedding but I don't want to drive 2 hours with a person I can't stand the sight of and I certainly don't want to be in a romantic environment with him.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

WonkyNinja said:


> *It is not only emotionally abusive it is pathetic, for me it is the adult equivalent of the 2 year old child throwing a tantrum until they get what they want then they are all happy again.
> *





Evinrude58 said:


> Yes, he shouldn't do that crap, but again, how often is this?
> Everyone is wick to say, yes, yes, divorce him. For not talking? Geez.
> I'm just not seeing it I guess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's been doing it on and off for years.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't get the silent treatment thing. It's bs, I agree. However, how often does this happen? A few days of not talking and you want a divorce, and he has no chance at all? Pretty cold, I think.
> 
> Yes, he shouldn't do that crap, but again, how often is this?
> Everyone is wick to say, yes, yes, divorce him. For not talking? Geez.
> ...


It happens so frequently that I can't keep count. If I had to try to add it up, I would say it totals about 3 years. It's always about something meaningless. I haven't cheated on him or hit him. I have been a loving stepmother to his children. I've done 100% of the cooking and laundry. I pay 50% of the bills, if not more. I care about our home. He should be grateful to have a wife who does all these things, especially since it's not the '50s but he isn't. I am being taken for granted and it's not acceptable to me anymore. I can't please him or make him happy and I don't want to try anymore. I could go on but I won't. I'm not perfect by any means but if I don't want to keep up with this I shouldn't have to...


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Evinrude, I forgot to add that I've been ignored at a fancy restaurant on Valentine's Day. It was about 12 years ago but it's still one of the most humiliating experiences of my life. He has tried to make it up to me but I vowed to never let him take me out on 2/14. It may seem like a small thing but these experiences stick with you and can cut deep.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Does he have friends?

Is he otherwise faithful and dependable? What triggers the silent periods.

Almost sounds like austistic/aspergers type behavior. At least in thie thread he's not "bad" accept the silent treatment makes you go crazy.

If he's doing it that much almost seems like a total lack of empathy is semi-autistic.



Mrs.X said:


> It happens so frequently that I can't keep count. If I had to try to add it up, I would say it totals about 3 years. It's always about something meaningless. I haven't cheated on him or hit him. I have been a loving stepmother to his children. I've done 100% of the cooking and laundry. I pay 50% of the bills, if not more. I care about our home. He should be grateful to have a wife who does all these things, especially since it's not the '50s but he isn't. I am being taken for granted and it's not acceptable to me anymore. I can't please him or make him happy and I don't want to try anymore. I could go on but I won't. I'm not perfect by any means but if I don't want to keep up with this I shouldn't have to...


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

You posted this while I was typing my other reply.

He seriously sounds like has hints of aspergers........



Mrs.X said:


> Evinrude, I forgot to add that I've been ignored at a fancy restaurant on Valentine's Day. It was about 12 years ago but it's still one of the most humiliating experiences of my life. He has tried to make it up to me but I vowed to never let him take me out on 2/14. It may seem like a small thing but these experiences stick with you and can cut deep.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm sorry that you're to this point. I wish we men weren't so damn stupid sometimes. You sound like a great wife. 

If I might ask, why do you think he does this? 
Do you think it's possible if you left him for a month or two, your anger might subside, and he would have a chance to see what his foolishness has done? Maybe it would wake him up? Do you feel that he loves you?
I hate to see a woman feel she's on an empty tank. I hate to see a stupid man lose his wife over this goofy thing he chooses not to stop. 

Sorry you feel at the end of your rope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

frusdil said:


> He's been doing it on and off for years.





jdawg2015 said:


> Does he have friends?
> 
> Is he otherwise faithful and dependable? What triggers the silent periods.
> 
> ...


He has friends but he doesn't see them or communicate with them much. He'd be happier if I didn't have friends but that's not happening anytime ever. He's faithful to me as far as I know and most people see him as an amazing guy, but it's all a front because he truly hates people. His daughter pissed him off 3 years ago and they haven't been in contact since. We've missed watching his granddaughter grow up but he doesn't care. This isn't their first falling out and I usually I mend fences between them; I didn't do it so it didn't happen. The only people he genuinely seems to care about are my father and his best friend who lives out of state. Otherwise the rest of the world can go straight to hell as far as he's concerned - but he'd never say that cause it would mess up his reputation as Mr. Nice Guy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Hadn't talked to his daughter in three years??? 
Yeah, he's hard to get along with.😔
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I'm sorry that you're to this point. I wish we men weren't so damn stupid sometimes. You sound like a great wife.
> 
> If I might ask, why do you think he does this?
> Do you think it's possible if you left him for a month or two, your anger might subside, and he would have a chance to see what his foolishness has done? Maybe it would wake him up? Do you feel that he loves you?
> ...


Thanks for saying so. I have no idea why he's like this but I suspect it has something to do with his parents or his 1st marriage. He has a lot of issues and he has a hard time trusting me, even though he acknowledged that he has no reason not to. If I go out with friends I tell him at the last minute, otherwise he'll fret over it for weeks because I'm supposed to spend my free time watching tv with him. Once I went to a concert with my cousin while he was working and I came home to him freaking out because I hung out with someone other than him. I immediately grabbed a suitcase and he changed his tune pretty quick. Now that I'm reflecting on the totality of his issues I'm even more convinced that this is not the life for me. He's just a total headcase but refuses to seek help. When I leave I need to be gone for good. I can't see myself going back and forth and I need stability. A trial separation would work better if he left but he won't so it'll be permanent.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Hadn't talked to his daughter in three years???
> Yeah, he's hard to get along with.😔
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She did something very hurtful despite the fact that we were supporting her financially but considering he's the parent, he should have explained why he was hurt by her actions.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

This sounds very much like an Aspie. There's other possibilities but the social thing is a clue to who/what he is.

Especially your lack of other complaints. He's not out partying, he's not chasing women, you've not complained about money, he's not jerking off to porn, he has a job. 

Then when you fight, he's silent. Frequently. 

This is solvable absent all the other things. But you need professional help and will not survive going it alone. It may not be Aspergers but theirs definitely strong hints of it. However, learning to communicate is much easier than overcoming trust/money/porn/gambling, etc





Mrs.X said:


> She did something very hurtful despite the fact that we were supporting her financially but considering he's the parent, he should have explained why he was hurt by her actions.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Give your husband what he needs, what he craves. A divorce!

"What's that you say, husband? You don't want a divorce?

"Well, that's too bad. But you see if you had communicated with me when it made a difference you could have made your feelings known. 

"But you didn't and now you get a divorce."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

Good for you Mrs X. No one deserves to be treated this way. You must feel good at knowing that you took the control from him because it all boils down to that doesn't it?
Do you think you going through the motions of divorce will kick his butt in gear at all and maybe he'll change or are you just done? I can see how'd you be at that done stage. 
You mentioned that everyone sees him as a great guy but you never know what happens behind closed doors.
Good luck to you and stay strong.



Sent from my iPhone


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Read this...

To Those Dealing with Passive_Aggresive Emotional Unavailable Husbands

I think I'm on page 4 and onwards. It's different pages on different devices, though. 

Here's my first post there.....

I was s true passive aggressive. A lot of people use that term, but when you finally meet crazy....man! We totally know how to screw with your mind. We keep you guessing with our subtle put downs. 

We make you so pissed off. Except we are experts at it. You don't even know if you "should" be pissed off. Your gut says "this is insane". 

But, Then we turn sweet and Ilovey. and you think everything is great. That is, until you do something that makes us mad, then we get evil. 

We Keep you on the knife blade, because we never tell you what's wrong. Your supposed to guess. Except you can't. Because we never let on with our words that we are slighted. Only are actions. Except our words contradict our actions. Which totally screws with yourind even more. And we don't let up until we reach that point where if we go farther, we have to admit we are angry. Then we turn lovey again. 

And soon, your mind is messed up. Your confused. You know this isn't right. But maybe it's all in your head. So you end up on Prozac. But that doesn't even work, because we are masters at fu(king with your mind. Prozac is no match for our special Kung fu craziness. 

Yes. That was me. I had a come to Jesus moment. Turned my life around. Found out why I did those things. Understood my craziness. Saw it for what it was. And changed. 

Passive aggressive people won't change. Not unless they are dangling from Thier own precipice. And have Thier own come to Jesus moment. They won't listen to your reason, and won't admit Thier craziness. They will be scared shatless of facing those demons unless they are forced to. 

Sorry for the depressing words. That's probably not the advise you want to hear. But it's the way it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

He's going to act all surprised at the divorce, like he was blindsided by you. But deep he probably knows he fkd up big time. How can he not? It was a self fulfilling prophecy in the actions he took all these years. 

We push and push and keep pushing, then act all surprised when the inevitable shows up at the door. 

And yes, we are almost normal around others. Kind and polite and giving. That's why everyone thinks we are "great guys". It's ironic that we didn't treat the ones we should have with that same courtesy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

jdawg2015 said:


> This sounds very much like an Aspie. There's other possibilities but the social thing is a clue to who/what he is.
> 
> Especially your lack of other complaints. He's not out partying, he's not chasing women, you've not complained about money, he's not jerking off to porn, he has a job.
> 
> ...


I don't know enough about Aspergers to say for sure but I doubt he has it. He's very good in social situations and enjoys entertaining while I'm more socially awkward. When our neighbors invite us over for a cookout or holiday party he can't wait to go yet he'll drive around the block to avoid saying hi to them.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Interesting thread. Woman wants to divorce because her husband goes silent for a few days.. (And you didn't say,, did you ask what may be wrong?) Says she is not hot headed but admits to smashing a bottle against a wall! Comes up with additional affronts like being ignored in a restaurant on Valentines day 12 years ago!!!

Sorry, but I don't think the pathology is restricted to hubby!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Mrs.X said:


> I'd take a fruitless argument over not speaking for days. Either way the situation was a big waste and based on a misunderstanding that would not have occurred had he not assumed he knows my feelings better than I do.


If he has an avoidant personality with everyone and always has, the problem is his. If he can bring up and discuss problems with the rest of the world but doesn't bother doing so with you, then you have taught him that it is pointless to mention subjects that may be perceived as critical when talking to you.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Mrs.X said:


> That's an interesting connection between your spouse & your mom. I had issues with my (late) mom as well. She was not controlling but we had typical mother/daughter stuff. We were just very different and rarely saw eye-to-eye. Years ago I was telling her something about my husband (I don't recall what) and she agreed that he was dead wrong. When I broached the subject of leaving him she balked at that. I don't know if my family's misplaced adoration of my H have lead me to stay but at this point if he needs to continue to have a relationship with my dad I won't begrudge either of them. I don't think I've ever told anyone the full extent of my marital problems because it makes things awkward when the argument is over. I won't feel the need to justify my reasons for walking away to my family.


Good!!!! You said something very important here. You do not have to justify to anyone your reason for walking away....that is SO true and because you realize that it shows great strength on your part. You are absolutely heading in the right direction. Where are you in the process? Have you contacted an attorney or are you going to try to do this on your own? How many years have you been married?

I am still living in the house that my husband and I bought. Divorce will be legal in about a month or so. Reflecting even now I ask myself why in the world did I take so much and stay so long. I know for me, I had to conquer a great deal of fears but when it finally got so unbearable I knew I had to find a way out.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> If he has an avoidant personality with everyone and always has, the problem is his. If he can bring up and discuss problems with the rest of the world but doesn't bother doing so with you, then you have taught him that it is pointless to mention subjects that may be perceived as critical when talking to you.


This statement makes perfect sense for a person who does not operate out of control or revenge. The Passive-aggressive person will withhold information as part of their control and inability to be close. Withholding: A common form of passive-aggressive behavior is withholding: sex, affection, information, conversation. Someone stops chatting, sharing details of family life; someone refrains from conveying essential data such as appointments, social events, school open houses, soccer games; someone “forgets” to share news about changes at work, relative illnesses……perhaps to create a fight, to let some of the pain ooze out; or to message “you don’t count, you don’t exist in my equation anymore, you show no interest in me, so why should I bring you into my world”. Revenge, retaliation, recalibration of emotions; but it doesn’t work because the true target, the painful rupture in the relationship, remains closeted.

A PA person has a very different mind set.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Hm - a few are quick ot blame OP. I get it there are two sides of the story BUT it's been going on for the marriage - a total of 15 years of which she has estimated a total of 3 years of silence. She also says he refuses to get help.

Mrs. X, I assume by 'help' you asked him to go to marriage counseling or IC and he said he didn't need help?

What's ironic/amusing, if he came on here, he'd likely be complaining about a WAW. He'll say he never saw it coming and was blindsided and confused. He'll say you never mentioned how unhappy you were. It so often seems men need to be smacked upside the head to make them understand when we complain about something in the marriage, we've usually been patient for a while and tried gentler words and actions or tried to just tell ourselves he's had a bad day and it's not that big of a deal. We REALLY mean there is an issue when we finally bring it up! That issue deserves attention.

I know my ex felt that way. Due to the physical abuse I was careful about how and when I brought it up, but I have screamed in tears that shoving, "thumping" (his word) and name-calling was hurtful to the marriage and was killing any good feelings I had about him. But on the phone after I left, he said I could have sat him down at the kitchen table and talked to him. It's like none of the other conversations I had with him were heard. What he finally heard was the door shutting and by then it's too late. (Not that ours was salvageable but I think most marriages are.)


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Mrs.X said:


> Evinrude, I forgot to add that I've been ignored at a fancy restaurant on Valentine's Day. It was about 12 years ago but it's still one of the most humiliating experiences of my life. He has tried to make it up to me but I vowed to never let him take me out on 2/14. It may seem like a small thing but these experiences stick with you and can cut deep.


It is not a little thing. Have you read about PA behavior? There is alot on the internet but I have a great book for you if you are interested. "Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man" by Scott Wetzler. This was a god send for me and a real eye opener to my husband's behavior. I kept seeing these odd behaviors over and over again and I was trying to figure out if I had done something, what prompted them, why was he mad, why was he not talking. I would ask but I would either get some bogus answer or he would tell me nothing was wrong. It turned into a guessing game of how to keep this man happy thru the years. What I realized was nothing was actually going to make him happy.

The anger that he held against me was for things that were serious issues in the marriage. I was just to accept them, his words. He has a drinking problem. When I was asking him about this he was drinking a 12 pack a night if it was in the house so we talked and we agreed no more beer in the house but even though he agreed he was angry at me and could not see there was a drinking problem....you see, it gets twisted. He had a fixation for porn and even dating he would seek porn before he sought me, I was the one going to him. I took this that he wasn't interested in me, we talked and I had all kinds of excuses but basically he was a porn addict and I could not see that at the time. I had no idea that men would turn to porn instead of their girlfriends. This is the stuff most people do not understand about the PA person. The anger runs deep and it is not about you or what you did, it is about the way they interpret the world around them. I could write pages of examples.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> He's going to act all surprised at the divorce, like he was blindsided by you. But deep he probably knows he fkd up big time. How can he not? It was a self fulfilling prophecy in the actions he took all these years.
> 
> We push and push and keep pushing, then act all surprised when the inevitable shows up at the door.
> 
> ...


AlphaOmega, good to see you in this thread. MrsX, listen to this man's advise. He helped me so much when I was trying to understand my husband's behavior. He is target on about PA behavior. By the way Alpha, I only have about a month more in this marriage. Thank you!


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Mrs.X said:


> I am a very even-tempered and cool-under pressure. I wouldn't consider myself a hot head but I can have internal fits of rage. There was one incident a few years ago when I threw a bottle of his cologne against a wall during an argument he started after days of giving me the silent treatment. So, yes under the right (or wrong) circumstances I can flip out. I know this about myself and I discussed it with my therapist. I recognize that a relationship without communication is not the ideal situation for me and that's why I want out. I have been asking my husband for years to go to marriage counseling and he flatly refused. I am not asking again. He has real problems, some of them he's acknowledged but he doesn't "believe" in therapy. In fact, he didn't even know that I was in therapy until I told him months later. I have to lie and keep secrets in order to keep the peace around here and frankly I'm sick of it.


I understand you here as I am the same way. In some ways people who argue frequently are better at it as they haven't been pushed to breaking point beforehand. Now I'm married to someone sane I don't have the issue. If something is bothering either of us we sit down and discuss it like normal human beings usually at least holding hands.

When my XW's moods and silent treatment ended she was then angry at me for being "off" with her, she expected that everything should be back to normal. On reflection now I honestly don't believe that she remembered her mood swings once they were over.



Mrs.X said:


> I sent the text because I wanted him to tell the groom, just in case there is time to rearrange the seating or whatever. I'm sure he won't tell him because he likes to give the appearance of being a great guy with a perfect marriage. I also reserved a hotel room and I tried to change the reservation from my name to his, but he'll have to deal with that himself when he gets there. The text may have been passive aggressive but had this happened 2 years ago or maybe even 2 weeks ago I would have just gone with the flow and attended the wedding but I don't want to drive 2 hours with a person I can't stand the sight of and I certainly don't want to be in a romantic environment with him.


I don't think telling him you didn't want to go to a wedding is in any way passive aggressive and you not wanting to act like a couple at a wedding and stay in a hotel with him is perfectly reasonable. So many times when someone is treating you like this you are so relieved to be treated even close to "properly" that you are all happy and smiling and they get to pretend that it never happened.

You may want to take the opportunity while he is away to properly move into the spare room. That way when he gets home you can tell him that you are done as a couple. He can't argue that this is out of the blue when you have told him repeatedly and he has refused to even consider the issue let alone address it.



Mrs.X said:


> It happens so frequently that I can't keep count. If I had to try to add it up, I would say it totals about 3 years. It's always about something meaningless. I haven't cheated on him or hit him. I have been a loving stepmother to his children. I've done 100% of the cooking and laundry. I pay 50% of the bills, if not more. I care about our home. He should be grateful to have a wife who does all these things, especially since it's not the '50s but he isn't. I am being taken for granted and it's not acceptable to me anymore. I can't please him or make him happy and I don't want to try anymore. I could go on but I won't. I'm not perfect by any means but if I don't want to keep up with this I shouldn't have to...


You are totally correct, you shouldn't have to put up with this. It is emotional abuse and there is no excuse or justification for it.

In my case there was no way to make her happy, no matter what there was always another issue waiting in the wings. Sometimes issues were invented as a way to justify the moods without having to apologize but there will always be another reason. When you love someone you don't spend your time finding little things to be angry at them about.



Mrs.X said:


> Evinrude, I forgot to add that I've been ignored at a fancy restaurant on Valentine's Day. It was about 12 years ago but it's still one of the most humiliating experiences of my life. He has tried to make it up to me but I vowed to never let him take me out on 2/14. It may seem like a small thing but these experiences stick with you and can cut deep.


Not a small thing at all. And the fact that your spouse doesn't even think you are worthy of an apology afterwards is the salt rubbed into the deep cut.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't get the silent treatment thing. It's bs, I agree. However, how often does this happen? A few days of not talking and you want a divorce, and he has no chance at all? Pretty cold, I think.
> 
> Yes, he shouldn't do that crap, but again, how often is this?
> Everyone is wick to say, yes, yes, divorce him. For not talking? Geez.
> I'm just not seeing it I guess.


I think you guess right. 

It's not just "a few days of not talking" it's days when the person who is supposed to be your partner in life treats you with contempt without even an explanation. They expect you to guess why they are mad and then you have to make amends for it. With my XW I had apoligized for things I'd done, things I hadn't done and things I didn't even know about.

I think most people will agree that marriage is about communication, well the silent treatment is the complete opposite of that. At least in a verbal argument your partner will tell you, or yell at you, what is bothering them, with the silent treatment you don't even get that.

It undermines any level of trust that you can have in your partner knowing that for literally no reason they will turn from loving you to treating you with utter contempt.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

The key to dealing with passive aggressive behaviour is not more passive aggressive behaviour.

And yes, what you've done is passive aggressive. You were passive (enjoying the quiet) and then aggressive (not going to the wedding). Not that it makes what he did right, of course.

The key to dealing with passive aggressive behaviour is just putting a smile on your face and living your life as if everything is great. 

When my wife would give me the silent treatment, I'd grab the kids and take them for ice cream and to the park. Or go out with the boys. Or the gym. Or just go shoot some pool.

She used to carry on for days sometimes. After I started doing that, it was hours. Now it never happens. She can tell me what the problem is and we can talk about it and be good, or I can go and do something else fun and be good. Either way, I'm good.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Mrs.X said:


> She did something very hurtful despite the fact that we were supporting her financially but considering he's the parent, he should have explained why he was hurt by her actions.


I can't imagine anything my daughter could ever do that would make me stop talking with with her.

Tell her you're surprised, angry, disappointed, why you're no longer going to bail her out or whatever but to cut off contact with your child defies belief.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> This sounds very much like an Aspie. There's other possibilities but the social thing is a clue to who/what he is.
> 
> Especially your lack of other complaints. He's not out partying, he's not chasing women, you've not complained about money, he's not jerking off to porn, he has a job.
> 
> ...


Don't you mean *he* needs professional help? 

She is the victim not the abuser.

You may be able to explain a condition but that doesn't mean that she has to work out how best to stand there and take whatever sh1t he chooses to dish out. 

My XW had the same attitude that I should have just understood that sometimes she "gets like that". Never once did she try to do anything about not having the moods and sulks but she was p1ssed off with me for being upset about it.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Interesting, it sounds like the OP could have written all of the justifications for my ex leaving me including seeking justification for her actions. But as some others have asked - over the past 15 years have you trained him to do this? Perhaps by shutting him down when he has expressed concerns in the past? I know from experience, that all I was ever going to get what no matter what the issue was, was "I am doing the best I can and if you don't like it, I am leaving" No, discussion of whether my concerns were valid or invalid, or why I may have felt that way. Nope! Instead it was just a defensive reaction to something that genuinely bothered me, to hell with me or my concerns. I am sure my ex felt that she too was level headed and even tempered, but in retrospect, she knew as little about communicating as I did, despite proclaiming herself one of the world's best communicators. I would recommend that you attempt to genuinely communicate with him, in an open and non-confrontational way, what is truly bothering you AND he. Flame on!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

One thing is certain, OP is mad as hell, and she has been building resentment for years. The valentines day thing still bothers her.

Only OP knows if her husband deserves a divorce. I suggest she separates and files for divorce and if there's still love there on her part, finally let him know she might return if he does x, y, z. I think if this silent crap isn't somehow rewarded, it will likely stop. She hasn't figured out how to stop rewarding it.

If she has no love left, I hate it but she might as well divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> One thing is certain, OP is mad as hell, and she has been building resentment for years. The valentines day thing still bothers her.
> 
> Only OP knows if her husband deserves a divorce. I suggest she separates and files for divorce and if there's still love there on her part, finally let him know she might return if he does x, y, z. I think if this silent crap isn't somehow rewarded, it will likely stop. She hasn't figured out how to stop rewarding it.
> 
> ...


I agree completely. I would just hate to see a 15 year marriage break up because of a break down in communication.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If he committed some unforgivable transgression 12 years ago, the time to leave was 12 years ago. As the OP decided to stay, that indicated the matter was forgiven or accepted. If she goes back a dozen years looking for evil deeds for which he deserves current bad treatment or abandonment, I'm not even slightly surprised he doesn't want to argue with her. Leave but don't linger in place talking about it and rubbing his nose in it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Mrs.X said:


> I was frustrated about the oven but this isn't a new issue. I've mentioned it several times before but I know that I have to schedule the service because I'm the one who uses it and I in no way made it about him. *He makes things about him and takes everything personally and constantly accuses me of being mad or having an attitude when I don't. I'm on eggshells all the time because the wrong tone of voice or wrong facial expression can land me in radio silence for days. *Trust me, if I don't pull the trigger now it will be pulled later because this is the pattern of our relationship. He has issues and won't get help.





Mrs.X said:


> He has friends but he doesn't see them or communicate with them much. He'd be happier if I didn't have friends but that's not happening anytime ever. He's faithful to me as far as I know and most people see him as an amazing guy, but it's all a front because he truly hates people. His daughter pissed him off 3 years ago and they haven't been in contact since. We've missed watching his granddaughter grow up but he doesn't care. This isn't their first falling out and I usually I mend fences between them; I didn't do it so it didn't happen. The only people he genuinely seems to care about are my father and his best friend who lives out of state. *Otherwise the rest of the world can go straight to hell as far as he's concerned - but he'd never say that cause it would mess up his reputation as Mr. Nice Guy*


OMG I think you may be married to my second husband! ALL of these things sound JUST like him. I used to get the silent treatment too. Back when I cared, it used to make me insane. I got to the point where I just didn't give a sh!t any more, and would just ignore him altogether and live my life. Since we split, he has cut his son, grandkids, and majority of his family out of his life completely. (I think he MAY still speak to one brother on occasion) He has NO friends, never did. 

People keep looking for a reason that your husband is the way he is, if he's Aspie, or whatever else...I think sometimes people are just a$$holes and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WonkyNinja said:


> I think you guess right.
> 
> *It's not just "a few days of not talking" it's days when the person who is supposed to be your partner in life treats you with contempt without even an explanation. They expect you to guess why they are mad and then you have to make amends for it.* With my XW I had apoligized for things I'd done, things I hadn't done and things I didn't even know about.
> 
> ...


This is SPOT ON, in reference to contempt. When my ex would be giving me the silent treatment, it got worse as time went on...where it used to be he would just ignore me, he got to the point that he would give me these looks like I was covered in dog sh!t or something...a look of complete and utter CONTEMPT. HATE even it seemed. I never once did anything to deserve being treated like that. Even in the rare case we had an actual argument, I never resorted to name calling or screaming or anything disrespectful. (looking back I kick myself, I should have been a b!tch!) He would escalate NOTHING, and I would find myself reeling in disbelief at his behavior. 

To this day, I don't know what happened to him. Its baffling. His son has never understood it either.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ynot said:


> I agree completely. I would just hate to see a 15 year marriage break up because of a break down in communication.


This is not a breakdown in communication. This is abuse.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> This is not a breakdown in communication. This is abuse.


On who's part? The OP who may have trained her H to shut down or the H who may be acting out on his own? I am always amazed how it is just taken for granted that the woman has always communicated expertly and is never to considered to be at fault. 
3X, we have just one side of this situation. I am merely suggesting that the OP looks within before passing judgement on some poor shlub who may or may not deserve it. You would do wise to do the same.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

citygirl4344 said:


> Good for you Mrs X. No one deserves to be treated this way. You must feel good at knowing that you took the control from him because it all boils down to that doesn't it?
> Do you think you going through the motions of divorce will kick his butt in gear at all and maybe he'll change or are you just done? I can see how'd you be at that done stage.
> You mentioned that everyone sees him as a great guy but you never know what happens behind closed doors.
> Good luck to you and stay strong.
> ...


I've been told how lucky I am and that always annoys me. I'm not lucky at all. I don't want to use divorce as a trick or a ploy to make him change because I already know that any change on his part will be temporary.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Yeah, I was married to that "poor shlub"... spouses who give the silent treatment are seeking control and intend it as punishment.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

alphaomega said:


> Read this...
> 
> To Those Dealing with Passive_Aggresive Emotional Unavailable Husbands
> 
> ...


This describes what I'm going thru to a T.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> If he committed some unforgivable transgression 12 years ago, the time to leave was 12 years ago. As the OP decided to stay, that indicated the matter was forgiven or accepted. If she goes back a dozen years looking for evil deeds for which he deserves current bad treatment or abandonment, I'm not even slightly surprised he doesn't want to argue with her. Leave but don't linger in place talking about it and rubbing his nose in it.


Maybe I could get over it if it happened just once. Unfortunately, he's ruined a number of vacations. holidays, road trips and other special occasions because of some supposed transgression that I committed against him. I was merely pointing out that date to show how I've been shamed publicly and privately.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Ynot said:


> On who's part? The OP who may have trained her H to shut down or the H who may be acting out on his own? I am always amazed how it is just taken for granted that the woman has always communicated expertly and is never to considered to be at fault.
> 3X, we have just one side of this situation. I am merely suggesting that the OP looks within before passing judgement on some poor shlub who may or may not deserve it. You would do wise to do the same.


This is not the first relationship I've had but I have never been involved in anything like this. Clearly those other relationships didn't work out either for a variety of reasons and I own my part in that. Sadly, people don't come with handbooks. We should live and learn through past experiences and mistakes.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> One thing is certain, OP is mad as hell, and she has been building resentment for years. The valentines day thing still bothers her.
> 
> Only OP knows if her husband deserves a divorce. I suggest she separates and files for divorce and if there's still love there on her part, finally let him know she might return if he does x, y, z. I think if this silent crap isn't somehow rewarded, it will likely stop. She hasn't figured out how to stop rewarding it.
> 
> ...


All these experiences pile up and it's too much of a burden and I don't want to carry it anymore. No one should have to live like this. He is offended by who I am but who am I supposed to be if I can't be myself?


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Ynot said:


> Interesting, it sounds like the OP could have written all of the justifications for my ex leaving me including seeking justification for her actions. But as some others have asked - over the past 15 years have you trained him to do this? Perhaps by shutting him down when he has expressed concerns in the past? I know from experience, that all I was ever going to get what no matter what the issue was, was "I am doing the best I can and if you don't like it, I am leaving" No, discussion of whether my concerns were valid or invalid, or why I may have felt that way. Nope! Instead it was just a defensive reaction to something that genuinely bothered me, to hell with me or my concerns. I am sure my ex felt that she too was level headed and even tempered, but in retrospect, she knew as little about communicating as I did, despite proclaiming herself one of the world's best communicators. I would recommend that you attempt to genuinely communicate with him, in an open and non-confrontational way, what is truly bothering you AND he. Flame on!


Here's the thing: in the early days of our relationship if I suspected something was wrong I would ask him what was going on. I literally had to drag it out of him. I stopped asking because the reasons are always crazy. He's gotten mad because I raised my voice, or I gave him a look that he didn't like, or I had a bad day at work and he didn't want to hear about it, or I made plans to go to dinner with friends and didn't tell him about the plans as soon as I made them. The list goes on and I don't know how to handle someone being pissed off for those reasons. I did not train him to be this way. He came into the relationship like this.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> OMG I think you may be married to my second husband! ALL of these things sound JUST like him. I used to get the silent treatment too. Back when I cared, it used to make me insane. I got to the point where I just didn't give a sh!t any more, and would just ignore him altogether and live my life. Since we split, he has cut his son, grandkids, and majority of his family out of his life completely. (I think he MAY still speak to one brother on occasion) He has NO friends, never did.
> 
> People keep looking for a reason that your husband is the way he is, if he's Aspie, or whatever else...I think sometimes people are just a$$holes and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.


Wow, it really sounds like the same man. He has cut off his entire family with the exception of one brother and he comes from a large family. I don't know what his problem is. Could be a personality disorder, maybe a chemical imbalance or perhaps he's simply an a$$hole. I don't know, don't care and have zero f_cks to give. I'm not a doctor or a mental health pro and instead of trying to diagnose him I need to look out for my own well being because I'm on the verge of a breakdown. I'll be on meds and he'll just go on with life as usual, unaware of the damage his behavior is doing. Being with this man is sucking the life out of me and I'm only 45.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"I stopped asking because the reasons are always crazy. He's gotten mad because I raised my voice, or I gave him a look that he didn't like, or I had a bad day at work and he didn't want to hear about it, or I made plans to go to dinner with friends and didn't tell him about the plans as soon as I made them. The list goes on and I don't know how to handle someone being pissed off for those reasons."

Desiring to be treated with respect is pretty normal and not crazy at all. Who wants to be yelled at or given nasty looks? Isn't it customary to let your partner know if you've made plans to go out? They are supposed to just figure it out when you don't come home? I don't accept yelling or dirty looks from my kids. It's disrespectful. If you have a boss I imagine he/she doesn't tolerate it. Again, it's disrespectful. You're offended because he doesn't talk but his complaining about being yelled at is "crazy"? With exception of his not wanting to hear about your bad day, those sound like he has pretty legit reasons for objection.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

marduk said:


> The key to dealing with passive aggressive behaviour is not more passive aggressive behaviour.
> 
> And yes, what you've done is passive aggressive. You were passive (enjoying the quiet) and then aggressive (not going to the wedding). Not that it makes what he did right, of course.
> 
> ...


I'm glad it worked out for you but I'm no longer willing to adjust to his bad behavior. He needs to know there are consequences for his actions.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Mrs.X said:


> I'm glad it worked out for you but I'm no longer willing to adjust to his bad behavior. He needs to know there are consequences for his actions.


Like what?

The second thing that passive aggressive people do is threaten, MrsX. The first thing they do is act hurt or innocent.

If you're going to act, then act. What's it going to be? What's the plan?


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Mrs.X said:


> My H has been giving me the silent treatment since Monday evening and for the life of me I had no idea why. This is a tactic he's used against me for our entire 15 year marriage. I've told him many times that he needs to tell me when he feels I've done something wrong so we can address it at the time, instead of letting it fester. That's not his style because he claims he doesn't want to argue, so he'd rather shut down. Whenever he does this I go through various emotional stages. Day one is like "what the hell happened and why is he giving me one word answers?" Day two I'm enjoying the peace and quiet, not worrying about cooking but still wondering what I allegedly did this time. By day three I'm totally fed up and ready to go to war. This is also the day when he's ready to put it all behind him as if nothing ever happened, or deflect the issue onto me as if I started it.
> 
> Well, today is Day Three and enough is enough! I've done some soul searching and decided that I not only deserve better but if I stay in this situation I may end up doing something to him that will feel good for a moment but hurt me more than him in the long run; like punching him in his face, cutting up his clothes, or any of the other ways I've fantasized about hurting him. He's not worth my bail money. When I got home from work he tried to talk to me but I said it's too late. I'm done with him and done with us. If I didn't have something important to do at work today I would have stayed home and packed, but instead I decided not to spend money on a hotel or leave the home that I pay the mortgage on. So I will take my time and make a plan that won't put my money or credit at risk. I don't need to talk to him & he doesn't need to talk to me. I told him all of this and he told me not to threaten him. I said it's not a threat and I've been telling him for years that there will come a day when I decide I can't take it anymore and that day is today.
> 
> ...


If you are unhappy then you should leave. I will say this, you mentioned cutting up his clothes or punching him in the face. The fact that you even though that says something about your character. I don't mean to be rude but if you come for advice folks need to be honest. Your husband is wrong but maybe you need to look at yourself. He gives you the silent treatment because he either a) does not have the tools to communicate effectively or he sees you as a controlling b**** that blames him for everything and who believes she's right all the time and that there is no point talking to. Just remember, when you point that finger you have three more pointing back at you. Who knows, your husband may be done with you as well but is staying for the kids.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> "I stopped asking because the reasons are always crazy. He's gotten mad because I raised my voice, or I gave him a look that he didn't like, or I had a bad day at work and he didn't want to hear about it, or I made plans to go to dinner with friends and didn't tell him about the plans as soon as I made them. The list goes on and I don't know how to handle someone being pissed off for those reasons."
> 
> Desiring to be treated with respect is pretty normal and not crazy at all. Who wants to be yelled at or given nasty looks? Isn't it customary to let your partner know if you've made plans to go out? They are supposed to just figure it out when you don't come home? I don't accept yelling or dirty looks from my kids. It's disrespectful. If you have a boss I imagine he/she doesn't tolerate it. Again, it's disrespectful. You're offended because he doesn't talk but his complaining about being yelled at is "crazy"? With exception of his not wanting to hear about your bad day, those sound like he has pretty legit reasons for objection.


You misunderstood. You can raise your voice without yelling at someone. If I say something to him and he repeatedly says "huh?" because he doesn't hear me I'll raise my voice to a volume he can hear and he'll accuse me of yelling at him. I would let him know about my plans in advance but that wasn't good enough. For example, if I told him I was going out in a week he would ask when I made those plans and why didn't I tell him as soon as I made them. Or he would ask if I checked his schedule first. It's as if he wants me to ASK if I can do something instead of telling him. I don't think I give him dirty looks - I can be perfectly happy but he'll ask why I have a look on my face. I don't walk around with a mirror so I have no idea what my facial expression may be. I've been accused of being mad or in a foul mood or being sneaky or up to something because of my facial expressions.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Mrs.X said:


> You misunderstood. You can raise your voice without yelling at someone. If I say something to him and he repeatedly says "huh?" because he doesn't hear me I'll raise my voice to a volume he can hear and he'll accuse me of yelling at him. I would let him know about my plans in advance but that wasn't good enough. For example, if I told him I was going out in a week he would ask when I made those plans and why didn't I tell him as soon as I made them. Or he would ask if I checked his schedule first. It's as if he wants me to ASK if I can do something instead of telling him. I don't think I give him dirty looks - I can be perfectly happy but he'll ask why I have a look on my face. I don't walk around with a mirror so I have no idea what my facial expression may be. I've been accused of being mad or in a foul mood or being sneaky or up to something because of my facial expressions.


It sounds to me like it's taking two to tango and right now he's the only one trying to communicate.

Sit there and stew and feel superior all you want. At the end of the day, you're going to do one of three things:

1. Leave (which means not being passive aggressive anymore)
2. Stay and continue the cycle (because you are both locked into a passive aggressive cycle where his passivity feeds your aggression and vice versa)
3. Stay and actually try to work it out -- which means both of you need to work on it (which means not being passive aggressive anymore)

I suspect this is going to be #2.

As I said, one of the first really visible signs of PA behaviour is the bluff and bluster. Which you are demonstrating in spades.

Which one is it going to be?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I don't know your husband and you do. If he's an unreasonable person you should probably leave. Should have done so 15 years ago. Most reasonable people know when they are being disrespected, especially by someone they have known intimately for 15 years. I certainly know when I'm being dissed or getting the stink eye and I imagine you do, too.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

niceguy28 said:


> If you are unhappy then you should leave. I will say this, you mentioned cutting up his clothes or punching him in the face. The fact that you even though that says something about your character. I don't mean to be rude but if you come for advice folks need to be honest. Your husband is wrong but maybe you need to look at yourself. He gives you the silent treatment because he either a) does not have the tools to communicate effectively or he sees you as a controlling b**** that blames him for everything and who believes she's right all the time and that there is no point talking to. Just remember, when you point that finger you have three more pointing back at you. Who knows, your husband may be done with you as well but is staying for the kids.


I have felt like doing something to hurt him but I didn't actually carry it out, nor did I tell him. I mentioned it here because I wanted to be completely open about what I was feeling and thought this was a safe place to vent. I know that what I'm feeling is not how a wife is supposed to feel for her husband. I also know that I should not be treated this way. Not sure if you've read my other posts but H has cut a lot of people out of his life, I'm guessing because he doesn't have the tools to communicate and work out the issues that he has with them. I've said I'm not perfect and I don't mind people asking questions about my part in this but I am dealing with a person who likes a few things about me and instead of accepting the things he doesn't like he has tried to change me and turn me into someone I am not. Years of that takes a toll. I could only hope that he is done with me too; that would make undoing this union much easier but that's not the case because his reputation means too much to him. Our children are young adults with homes of their own and we have no children together.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

marduk said:


> Like what?
> 
> The second thing that passive aggressive people do is threaten, MrsX. The first thing they do is act hurt or innocent.
> 
> If you're going to act, then act. What's it going to be? What's the plan?


Leaving is the consequence. I have an appointment with an attorney next week. Thanks


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Mrs.X said:


> Here's the thing: in the early days of our relationship if I suspected something was wrong I would ask him what was going on. I literally had to drag it out of him. I stopped asking because the reasons are always crazy. He's gotten mad because I raised my voice, or I gave him a look that he didn't like, or I had a bad day at work and he didn't want to hear about it, or I made plans to go to dinner with friends and didn't tell him about the plans as soon as I made them. The list goes on and I don't know how to handle someone being pissed off for those reasons. I did not train him to be this way. He came into the relationship like this.


Whatever. I am just some anonymous dude on an internet forum offering my perspective based on my own experience. In the end you are the one (along with your STBXH and family) who will have to live with the results of your decision. If you can look at yourself in the mirror and honestly tell yourself you did everything you could and didn't just give up, then good for you.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Mrs.X said:


> I have felt like doing something to hurt him but I didn't actually carry it out, nor did I tell him. I mentioned it here because I wanted to be completely open about what I was feeling and thought this was a safe place to vent. I know that what I'm feeling is not how a wife is supposed to feel for her husband. I also know that I should not be treated this way. Not sure if you've read my other posts but H has cut a lot of people out of his life, I'm guessing because he doesn't have the tools to communicate and work out the issues that he has with them. I've said I'm not perfect and I don't mind people asking questions about my part in this but I am dealing with a person who likes a few things about me and instead of accepting the things he doesn't like he has tried to change me and turn me into someone I am not. Years of that takes a toll. I could only hope that he is done with me too; that would make undoing this union much easier but that's not the case because his reputation means too much to him. Our children are young adults with homes of their own and we have no children together.


Well if that's the case and you're miserable then you should probably leave. There's no reason to stay for the kids. Resentment with out change NEVER goes away and he doesn't seem like he wants to change. Life is too short to be miserable.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Mrs.X said:


> Here's the thing: in the early days of our relationship if I suspected something was wrong I would ask him what was going on. I literally had to drag it out of him. I stopped asking because the reasons are always crazy. He's gotten mad because I raised my voice, or I gave him a look that he didn't like, or I had a bad day at work and he didn't want to hear about it, or I made plans to go to dinner with friends and didn't tell him about the plans as soon as I made them. The list goes on and I don't know how to handle someone being pissed off for those reasons. I did not train him to be this way. He came into the relationship like this.


My story too. I'd never seen that sort of behavior before so I missed the red flags before we were married. I wanted to live together first but she wouln't hear of it, said it sounded like I was hedging my bets. I'm pretty convinced she knew that she couldn't avoid the moods for that long and I'd have left in a heartbeat.



Mrs.X said:


> Wow, it really sounds like the same man. He has cut off his entire family with the exception of one brother and he comes from a large family. I don't know what his problem is. Could be a personality disorder, maybe a chemical imbalance or perhaps he's simply an a$$hole. I don't know, don't care and have zero f_cks to give. I'm not a doctor or a mental health pro and instead of trying to diagnose him I need to look out for my own well being because I'm on the verge of a breakdown. I'll be on meds and he'll just go on with life as usual, unaware of the damage his behavior is doing. Being with this man is sucking the life out of me and I'm only 45.


You need to get away from it. The problem is that he has the moods every so often you live in fear of them 24/7. I didn't realize how miserable I was until after we split and then it was like a weight being lifted from me. I got me back.



Mrs.X said:


> I'm glad it worked out for you but I'm no longer willing to adjust to his bad behavior. He needs to know there are consequences for his actions.


I'm glad it worked for Marduk too. If you want to try one last time then all power to you but you can't back down on your consequences or you'll end up repeating the cycle. If you do want to try then I'd file the paperwork then give him the ultimatum, he gets help and treats you like a decent human being or first silent treatment and it's done. Personally I had too many resentments and zero confidence that we would get back to anything worth having. I don't regret my decision.

I do remember being told that the grass isn't any greener elsewhere. Part of me wants to buy XW a poster of a PGA fairway with the putting green at the top.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

WonkyNinja said:


> My story too. I'd never seen that sort of behavior before so I missed the red flags before we were married. I wanted to live together first but she wouldn't hear of it, said it sounded like I was hedging my bets. I'm pretty convinced she knew that she couldn't avoid the moods for that long and I'd have left in a heartbeat.
> 
> You need to get away from it. The problem is that he has the moods every so often you live in fear of them 24/7. I didn't realize how miserable I was until after we split and then it was like a weight being lifted from me. I got me back.
> 
> ...



WonkyNinja, I appreciate your comments more than you know. It really helps hearing from people who have been where I am now because you get it. No one truly understands unless they've been through this or any other form of emotional abuse. I'm working on separating myself from him but I'm being methodical instead of hasty. I could pack up and leave but I don't want to stay with friends or family; I don't want them to worry about me. I don't want to stay at a hotel because that can only last for so long. Last night I slept in the spare bedroom and today I moved my essential items to that room. He's called a couple times but I didn't answer and he didn't leave a message. He'll be getting off work in the next hour and I plan to be out of the house by then. I'm really exhausted and don't feel like driving around aimlessly but I don't have the energy to deal with him. I don't want to see him, I don't want to argue, and I don't want to hear any apologies. What I want is to stick to my guns and follow through. I just need to take it one day at a time.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Mrs.X

I have a suggestion. Rather than us reading a bunch into every nuance of your writing, and you taking the defensive, how about if we approach it this way:

When I say to my Dear Hubby: "This is a deeply serious issue--do it my way or I'm leaving" that does not communicate that the issue is serious and I intend to stay and work on it. It communicates that I intend to threaten him with unstabilizing the marriage unless he does something "my way." 

So if something truly is a deeply serious issue, I have one, honest, no-holds-barred DISCUSSION with him. I'm not yelling. I'm not raising my voice. I'm not forcing him to say yes or no--he is completely free to make a choice for himself and then I can decide for myself. But I don't make hints or make him guess or "figure it out" like a punishment--I say RIGHT OUT LOUD what I think and feel , and then ask RIGHT OUT LOUD for what I need from him. At that point, he is an adult, he is knowledgeable and mature, and he can decide how he chooses to act (or not act).

Once that's done, I don't need to threaten him or come to TAM for approval or support or anything. I just decide...and act. In your case, I'd recommend having one, honest, no-holds-barred discussion with him, telling him what you think and feel, and asking out loud for what you request. If you believe you've done this already and his response has been to "do nothing" and in your mind you have his decision (aka "I choose to not do what you request and instead choose to do nothing") 

....then you no longer need to threaten him or come here for approval. Just act. I understand that you may not want to just move out today because that may not be financially wise, and you want to consider all options and move wisely. Cool. Then pack your clothes and move to the guest bedroom today. Right now. And on this thread, let's discuss with you the pros and cons of when to move and why. 

Making a bunch of bluster and "talking but not doing" comes across as a threat from a passive aggressive person. And it's not a disrespect to you for us to mention that some of your actions are mirroring the very behavior you claim to dislike! It's more like respect, honestly, because if we didn't think you could handle it, we would lie to your face. Instead, we treat you as a mature adult who's able to look at themselves and say "Darn it's true--after living with a PA man this long, some of his habits brushed off on me. I may need to deal with that." 

If you truly are not PA, then you've made your choice and the time has come to think about your plan and then WORK YOUR PLAN beginning right now. I think your first step was to no longer "pretend" to be a happily married couple and attend the wedding "together." Cool that step is accomplished. What is your next step? Other than writing here, if your mind is truly made up to leave, what are you going to do right now...today to leave?


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Affaircare said:


> @Mrs.X
> 
> I have a suggestion. Rather than us reading a bunch into every nuance of your writing, and you taking the defensive, how about if we approach it this way:
> 
> ...


So, I've had the "when you have a problem with me please talk to me instead of shutting down" discussion several times over the course of our marriage and it hasn't changed anything at all. Yesterday I told him that I am not happy, I do not know how to fix this, I don't like feeling this way (unimportant, less than) and that this situation is not healthy for either of us so we need to part ways. I told him that I considered moving out immediately but I decided to come up with a plan instead. I said all this without yelling, cursing or reacting to his defensive comments. I did not ask him to do anything and I did not ask him to change his ways. Regardless of who's right or wrong and who's good or bad, we are both wrong and bad for each other. He doesn't seem to be at his breaking point but I am. "I'm leaving" was said as a threat, I was giving him notice but I guess I could have put my wheels in motion first and let him find out when all my stuff is gone. I wanted to make it clear that we are now in the "roommate" phase of our relationship. 

For now I've moved to another room until I can figure things out. I am meeting with an attorney next week and I hope she can help me figure things out. In my state you have to live separately for 6 months before a divorce petition can be considered as filed. I'm not sure if that means separate bedrooms or actually having a different address but once I know that I'll be able to figure out my next steps.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okay so one step you could do today, @Mrs.X, would be to begin to gather moving boxes. Or begin sorting through your things, deciding "what to keep unpacked" "what to give away" "what to pack." 

Another thing you could do is go to the bank and figure out who is on the mortgage, who is on the deed, what the balance is, etc. and then research typical selling prices for homes in your area. Kind of get a feel for what equity you may be entitle to, if any. 

You could get copies of all your household bills and figure out "where you are" with each bill, and how you want to divide them, close them, or change them. Just make a list, and include the company, the account number, the monthly bill amount and the balance.

You could begin looking into rental properties in your area. Do you want an apartment, a townhouse, or a house? Do you want to rent or own? Just start looking at what's out there...and start getting some ideas. 

You could also write down your hubby's typical schedule "he leaves at 8am...is home at 6pm and stays in the living room watching TV until 11pm then goes to bed" and figure out how you can arrange YOUR schedule to avoid him for the most part. That's not to say that you are doing to him what he did to you, but rather as a way of beginning to detach. Why be there when he's going to be there? Begin to change up YOUR schedule so you just don't run into him and you aren't around when he's around. If he tends to be home at night...go to yoga at night and then to the coffee shop afterward to have some exercise and social time in your life. Wake up before him and leave so you don't see him and he doesn't see you. Start YOUR new life and carry on with the new life YOU WANT, and begin to figure out how you disentangle his life from your life. 

See what I mean? There is a lot to actually DO in order to actually LEAVE, and if you have made up your mind and are just calmly deciding you are done, that is absolutely YOUR CHOICE... so now act. You don't need to wait until the attorney meeting.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It seems that your beef is the silent treatment. Does he say it will stop of you don't leave, or is he...... Silent????

Do you still love this man?
You haven't answered
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> It seems that your beef is the silent treatment. Does he say it will stop of you don't leave, or is he...... Silent????
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was wondering that too... If you still love him it might be worth it to try to salvage the marriage.
Have you ever seeked IC at all?
If you wanted to stay it might be worth while to explore how to best deal with these types of silent situations that happen.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I want you to do something, MrsX.

When you leave, I want you to consider finding a good therapist to go to individually. Your husband's PA might be intolerable, but you need to understand that a lot of what you complain of, you yourself are doing or are playing into.

And I don't want that to carry into your next relationship, and I don't want you to be alone out of resentment over this one.

A good place to look is how you fight the silent treatment... With your own silent treatment.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Mrs.X please ignore the posters that want to blame you for your grown adult husband's behavior. They probably don't understand the emotional toll the silent treatment can have on a person when it's used on them as a manipulative tactic. They don't understand the "walking on eggshells" household that you live in, constantly wondering what you did wrong or coming home wondering if the manipulator is in a bad mood or good mood. It makes children conflict avoidant or fixers as adults. 

I grew up in home like to some extent but my husband, his brothers and his mom had it really bad. My father in law can go for weeks not talking to whoever. It's ALWAYS over some stupid perceived slight the he's made up in his brain. The victim is quite shocked because he has been totally misunderstood by my FIL. He just reconciled with his sister after not talking to her for 30 years for some ridiculous reason. He abandoned my MIL for hours in a strange city because he got mad at her because who knows. 

It is good you're getting out now. My MIL is odd and I have a feeling she wasn't odd before she married my FIL.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Mrs.X said:


> WonkyNinja, I appreciate your comments more than you know. It really helps hearing from people who have been where I am now because you get it. No one truly understands unless they've been through this or any other form of emotional abuse. I'm working on separating myself from him but I'm being methodical instead of hasty. I could pack up and leave but I don't want to stay with friends or family; I don't want them to worry about me. I don't want to stay at a hotel because that can only last for so long. Last night I slept in the spare bedroom and today I moved my essential items to that room. He's called a couple times but I didn't answer and he didn't leave a message. He'll be getting off work in the next hour and I plan to be out of the house by then. I'm really exhausted and don't feel like driving around aimlessly but I don't have the energy to deal with him. I don't want to see him, I don't want to argue, and I don't want to hear any apologies. What I want is to stick to my guns and follow through. I just need to take it one day at a time.


You are so right, people who have not dealt with a passive-aggressive person have no clue. They really think you can have a conversation, agree and everything will be fine but that is not how it works with a PA. He might agree but that doesn't mean he will carry out the agreement and it is not a matter of you saying that demand this, it is more than likely a conversation with compassion with firm boundaries but this means nothing to the PA. Their underlying anger will not allow them to meet you half way, it is simply NOT going to happen.

When I first started reaching out to friends they would tell me, "Oh, my husband is the same way," until they listened a little longer. None of my friends have dealt with what I have. It is incredibly hard to keep your inner strength while you are being ignored and made to feel like you are nothing but dirt under someone's feet.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Well it is so good to see all the arm chair psychologists on TAM have agreed that the OP's STBX is PA and the OP is completely faultless. It could be true, I don't know, but I would like to think that the OP and others here might want to consider that they are only hearing one side of the story.

OP, I would urge you to consider the fact that most every one who responds around here is guilty of projecting their own experiences (including myself). As I said, before if you can face yourself and truly claim that you have exhausted all of your options, then by all means do what you must. You are the one who must face yourself everyday for the rest of your life.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> Mrs.X please ignore the posters that want to blame you for your grown adult husband's behavior. They probably don't understand the emotional toll the silent treatment can have on a person when it's used on them as a manipulative tactic. They don't understand the "walking on eggshells" household that you live in, constantly wondering what you did wrong or coming home wondering if the manipulator is in a bad mood or good mood. It makes children conflict avoidant or fixers as adults.
> 
> I grew up in home like to some extent but my husband, his brothers and his mom had it really bad. My father in law can go for weeks not talking to whoever. It's ALWAYS over some stupid perceived slight the he's made up in his brain. The victim is quite shocked because he has been totally misunderstood by my FIL. He just reconciled with his sister after not talking to her for 30 years for some ridiculous reason. He abandoned my MIL for hours in a strange city because he got mad at her because who knows.
> 
> It is good you're getting out now. My MIL is odd and I have a feeling she wasn't odd before she married my FIL.


Thanks Soccermom. I know people mean well but posting here has added to my frustration with this already tense situation. Your MIL was probably quite normal once but living with her H probably keeps her on guard. I feel for her and anyone who has to grow up in this type of environment. As for my H, this could be learned behaviour from his childhood. I'm not sure because I never got to know my FIL and only met him once. My H stopped speaking to his dad long before we met and he died a couple years ago and my H had no regrets.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

citygirl4344 said:


> Evinrude58 said:
> 
> 
> > It seems that your beef is the silent treatment. Does he say it will stop of you don't leave, or is he...... Silent????
> ...


I'm not sure I know how to quantify love at this point. I've had IC and found it to be very helpful. I may go back but I won't be seeking guidance on how to deal with H.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Well it is so good to see all the arm chair psychologists on TAM have agreed that the OP's STBX is PA and the OP is completely faultless. It could be true, I don't know, but I would like to think that the OP and others here might want to consider that they are only hearing one side of the story.
> 
> OP, I would urge you to consider the fact that most every one who responds around here is guilty of projecting their own experiences (including myself). As I said, before if you can face yourself and truly claim that you have exhausted all of your options, then by all means do what you must. You are the one who must face yourself everyday for the rest of your life.


Mrs.X stated that her husband has also alienated his siblings and children with his behavior so she is not the only one he treats this way. It not something she is doing to "make him this way". 

When one person is the common denominator in their relationship problems with others then yes it is solely their fault. It surely isn't anyone else's fault if they don't want to tip toe around someone that is constantly misinterpreting facial expressions or comments. People shouldn't have to live praying they don't trigger someone's irrational behavior.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

The fact that you've not articulated any real issues beyond silence. SOMETHING has to trigger it. This is why you need to get into MC to figure it out.

Or you've left out a lot of things. For the best advice you also need to share what you do, any issues, etc. Not to judge you but to give you advice.

As you see in this thread a lot of us men do the silent thing. 

If this is only a communication issue it's solveable.

Now if one or both of you is not physically interested in the other, no sex, or other issues like that it needs to come out to give the best advice.

You're fighting style can be part of this. 

One thing that stands out to me, is you seem to have laid this ALL on your husband. It's rarely one-sided...



Mrs.X said:


> I don't know enough about Aspergers to say for sure but I doubt he has it. He's very good in social situations and enjoys entertaining while I'm more socially awkward. When our neighbors invite us over for a cookout or holiday party he can't wait to go yet he'll drive around the block to avoid saying hi to them.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Great post and mirrors exactly what I was thinking.



Ynot said:


> Well it is so good to see all the arm chair psychologists on TAM have agreed that the OP's STBX is PA and the OP is completely faultless. It could be true, I don't know, but I would like to think that the OP and others here might want to consider that they are only hearing one side of the story.
> 
> OP, I would urge you to consider the fact that most every one who responds around here is guilty of projecting their own experiences (including myself). As I said, before if you can face yourself and truly claim that you have exhausted all of your options, then by all means do what you must. You are the one who must face yourself everyday for the rest of your life.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> Mrs.X stated that her husband has also alienated his siblings and children with his behavior so she is not the only one he treats this way. It not something she is doing to "make him this way".
> 
> When one person is the common denominator in their relationship problems with others then yes it is solely their fault. It surely isn't anyone else's fault if they don't want to tip toe around someone that is constantly misinterpreting facial expressions or comments. People shouldn't have to live praying they don't trigger someone's irrational behavior.


Yep and so far all we have is Mrs X's side of the story. Yet as others have pointed out, Mrs X displays many of the same tendencies she ascribes to her husband. I am sure my ex could have said many of the same things about me, and I am sure she would have been equally convincing. I had become alienated from my siblings as well, but it wasn't because of anything I did. It was because I got sick of hearing my ex bad mouth each and everyone of them. Or I could go on to say how she alienated them from me with snide remarks about how "plain" my sisters were. The OPs STBXH may very well be PA, but none of actually know that despite whatever our experiences were. I am pretty certain that if the OP can come on here and tell a bunch of complete strangers how she threw things, wanted to hurt him, cut up his clothes etc etc, she probably expressed those same things to him as well. Heavens forbid that some of us dare to suggest the OP look at herself first and perhaps attempt to have a real conversation with him. Because we all know all women are expert communicators and all men are lumbering, emotionless, mouth breathing dipsticks who just don't get it.


----------



## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

Ynot said:


> soccermom2three said:
> 
> 
> > Mrs.X stated that her husband has also alienated his siblings and children with his behavior so she is not the only one he treats this way. It not something she is doing to "make him this way".
> ...


I have nothing to gain by lying to strangers. I admitted to the things that I've done & negative thoughts that I have had but have not acted on. My husband does not speak to his siblings yet his siblings still speak to each other. He is the common denominator. I didn't come here for your judgment but you're free to give it anyway and feel however you wish. The fact that you may not believe what I say doesn't make it any less true. Seems like you & others just have a problem with women.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

You have men telling you things from the other side and seems you've not willing to be introspective. 

If you only want feedback from women then either ask for that or put it in the ladies section.

I've personally tried to give you thoughts to help you to look at the whole picture.

You just typed again that it's only your husband. It's very rare to be a one-sided deal.

Was your post a vent or do you really want feedback? To be honest your starting to argue with posters trying to help. And what does it make me want to do? Stop trying to help you and go.... SILENT.



Mrs.X said:


> I have nothing to gain by lying to strangers. I admitted to the things that I've done & negative thoughts that I have had but have not acted on. My husband does not speak to his siblings yet his siblings still speak to each other. He is the common denominator. I didn't come here for your judgment but you're free to give it anyway and feel however you wish. The fact that you may not believe what I say doesn't make it any less true. Seems like you & others just have a problem with women.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Oh Mrs.X didn't you know? It's your fault because you trigger your husband with your facial expressions, innocuous comments and mentioning the oven. But wait, he has the same problems with siblings and children. It must be their fault too.


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## Mrs.X (Apr 1, 2015)

H came home and said "Hey baby" as if nothing ever happened. He then went on to apologize for his actions and said he probably read me wrong, it won't happen again, blah, blah, blah...now what color dress are you wearing to the wedding? Seriously?! I reminded him that I'm not going & that saying he's sorry isn't a magic cure all because he's said it before and nothing has changed. Basically he wants me to accept his lame apology, get over it and let him know about the wedding so he can adjust his plans accordingly. Clearly the apology is about the wedding & not about me. This is proof that I'm making the right decision by moving forward alone. Thanks to those who have offered support & words of encouragement. Much appreciated. X


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

That's not what we are saying AT ALL.

We are trying to deal with the communication between her and H. 

Look at her complaints. It's solely communication.


Trying to understand what makes him go silent is not finding fault. She probably does do things that trigger. Does not mean it's rational. Or maybe she's doing something and not even realizing it. 

Us silly men will let you women solve it.



soccermom2three said:


> Oh Mrs.X didn't you know? It's your fault because you trigger your husband with your facial expressions, innocuous comments and mentioning the oven. But wait, he has the same problems with siblings and children. It must be their fault too.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> Us silly men will let you women solve it.


Now we're getting somewhere . . .


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

jld said:


> Now we're getting somewhere . . .


And here we see one of the real problems. When, as Jdawg, as well as myself has pointed out, a man attempts to offer an alternative or a suggestion, the idea is to be ignored or rejected primarily due to the source. After all women are the great communicators, have all the answers and are keepers of the relationship.
I have seen it here on this thread. I have seen it on the "why do men want to have sex with their wife"thread, I see it all throughout TAM. It is just accepted as a given that women always know best and anyone saying otherwise must "have a problem with women".
We hear it all the time about how men don't listen. But yet, right here on this thread, despite numerous men offering up alternatives complete with detailed reasoning as to why they may feel the way they do, their efforts are rejected out of hand. 
No, this entire thread just reinforces my opinion that women have just as much to learn about communication as any man does.
Mrs.X, I have not judged you. If you are feeling judged I would suggest you look within, because that is where that feeling is coming from. As others have suggested, if you want validation that you are doing the right thing, perhaps you shouldn't have posted publicly. Eliciting the replies from men who have been on the other end of your situation. I am sorry for pointing out that you may not be considering all sides. I am equally sorry that so many women are equally blinded to seeing the whole picture due to their own biases and belief that all men are just idiots only wanting sex and food.
I wish you luck. I hope you find happiness. But as I said, only you will know if you do. You are the one who has to look at yourself in the mirror every day.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

That fact that she's immediately defensive at even the hint that she could be contributing to the problem and blew a gasket shows us what the H deals with.

I'm sure she does it to him. So rather than engage he just goes silent. 

Classic.


Ynot said:


> And here we see one of the real problems. When, as Jdawg, as well as myself has pointed out, a man attempts to offer an alternative or a suggestion, the idea is to be ignored or rejected primarily due to the source. After all women are the great communicators, have all the answers and are keepers of the relationship.
> I have seen it here on this thread. I have seen it on the "why do men want to have sex with their wife"thread, I see it all throughout TAM. It is just accepted as a given that women always know best and anyone saying otherwise must "have a problem with women".
> We hear it all the time about how men don't listen. But yet, right here on this thread, despite numerous men offering up alternatives complete with detailed reasoning as to why they may feel the way they do, their efforts are rejected out of hand.
> No, this entire thread just reinforces my opinion that women have just as much to learn about communication as any man does.
> ...


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Remember ladies, when women act irrational they are mentally ill, probably bipolar or BPD. There's no rational cause. 

When men act irrational you've "triggered them" or made them that way. There's an explication somewhere, but we only hear one side of the story.

That's the double standard on TAM thar happens that makes people not want to listen. Just saying.


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## CMD1978 (Apr 9, 2016)

I just finished reading this entire thread and MrsX I totally sympathize with you because I think I'm married to your husband's twin brother. My H will give me the silent treatment for days at a time because I didn't read his mind and cook what he wanted for dinner. I didn't get to the laundry that day even though I work longer hours than him and basically do everything at home as well. I didn't get the oil changed in his car (which is the most ridiculous since he won't let me drive it). The lawn hasn't been mowed and now he's going to have to waste his weekend mowing it. I never find out WHAT triggered his silence until after he's come back out of it, sometimes as much as a week later. He pulls the same crap with our kids if they don't get the grades he wants in school or if their sports programs aren't consistently winning. Like they're personally at fault if their TEAM loses. Hello these kids are only 12 years old.

I too am seriously considering divorce although the silent treatment crap isn't the reason why (husband is serving time for drug possession - I had no clue he was either using or dealing). But I sure as heck don't blame you for wanting to get the hell out. People who have never lived with this particular form of abuse just don't get it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Oh Mrs.X didn't you know? It's your fault because you trigger your husband with your facial expressions, innocuous comments and mentioning the oven. But wait, he has the same problems with siblings and children. It must be their fault too.


Don't think I've seen men not getting enough sex asked to be introspective. 

In that case she's just not meeting his needs or she's an ungrateful, entitled princess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

CMD, do you see the difference between your post and the OP?

You articulated issues that lead to resentment. 

Your husband in in JAIL.

Unless she comes back with what is really going on your stories are worlds apart. Pretty sure if her H was a drug dealer or in jail she would have told us.

I'm sitting in the bleachers watching the women all load up ready to shot the guy. And nary a THOUGHT as to maybe this means it takes work to get communication going.




CMD1978 said:


> I just finished reading this entire thread and MrsX I totally sympathize with you because I think I'm married to your husband's twin brother. My H will give me the silent treatment for days at a time because I didn't read his mind and cook what he wanted for dinner. I didn't get to the laundry that day even though I work longer hours than him and basically do everything at home as well. I didn't get the oil changed in his car (which is the most ridiculous since he won't let me drive it). The lawn hasn't been mowed and now he's going to have to waste his weekend mowing it. I never find out WHAT triggered his silence until after he's come back out of it, sometimes as much as a week later. He pulls the same crap with our kids if they don't get the grades he wants in school or if their sports programs aren't consistently winning. Like they're personally at fault if their TEAM loses. Hello these kids are only 12 years old.
> 
> I too am seriously considering divorce although the silent treatment crap isn't the reason why (husband is serving time for drug possession - I had no clue he was either using or dealing). But I sure as heck don't blame you for wanting to get the hell out. People who have never lived with this particular form of abuse just don't get it.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

And this is why women logic fails when communicating to men when there are problems. 

The H can be totally irrational -or- the OP could have an arguing style that causes the H to go silent. We asked for more details. 

I can think of so many threads where people jump the bandwagon then details leak out and people, oh, well in that case I would have to change my advice, etc. Sit back and get the fulls details before going in with pitch forks.

The OP admitted to wanting to cut his clothes and hit the H. And then she shows signs of being very quick to be defensive. This kind of stuff can lead to a husband to be silent. Taking a totally one sided story and validating a poster unequivocally is not doing them any favors.




Starstarfish said:


> Remember ladies, when women act irrational they are mentally ill, probably bipolar or BPD. There's no rational cause.
> 
> When men act irrational you've "triggered them" or made them that way. There's an explication somewhere, but we only hear one side of the story.
> 
> That's the double standard on TAM thar happens that makes people not want to listen. Just saying.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Good for you. If there's any chance of him getting help it will be when you're out the door.
> 
> He probably doesn't believe you're really going at this point, so be prepared for the begging to start once it sinks in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



That's odd. I had no idea that LITS is a true believer. So why am I having so much trouble with this effort of mine?




lifeistooshort said:


> He won't know what to do without his emotional punching bag.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Whoops, there is is.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

marduk said:


> The key to dealing with passive aggressive behaviour is not more passive aggressive behaviour.
> 
> And yes, what you've done is passive aggressive. You were passive (enjoying the quiet) and then aggressive (not going to the wedding). Not that it makes what he did right, of course.
> 
> ...


Marduk found his zen here. Good work!

The reason we are not PA with our boss or friends is that they don't really give two shats about our "feelings". We don't act that way because we don't have any power against them. If I were to pout at work then my boss would call me out on it or just fire me. 

Marduk showed his wife that her PA Kung fu crazy is no match for the defence of "I'm not playing that game."

As Mr Miyagi said, "best defence? Don't be there!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

AVR1962 said:


> AlphaOmega, good to see you in this thread. MrsX, listen to this man's advise. He helped me so much when I was trying to understand my husband's behavior. He is target on about PA behavior. By the way Alpha, I only have about a month more in this marriage. Thank you!


Not sure I should be "thanked" for this. 

But I'm glad you finally figured out you new found addiction to Prozac was all his Kung fu crazy. You will experience a mental peace like you haven't since you were 11, lying on the grass staring up at the clouds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't get the silent treatment thing. It's bs, I agree. However, how often does this happen? A few days of not talking and you want a divorce, and he has no chance at all? Pretty cold, I think.
> 
> Yes, he shouldn't do that crap, but again, how often is this?
> Everyone is wick to say, yes, yes, divorce him. For not talking? Geez.
> ...


Hi Evinrude!

You don't get it because your "normal". 

For us, silence is the ultimate weapon the punish you (Agressive), without having to admit we are punishing you. (Passive). 

It's a very messed up way of thinking, that's not healthy at all, as you probably understand. It drives the target to be confused, as they know something is wrong, but since we always revert back to "happy, lovey" guy before we are forced to admit something is wrong, it ends up second guessing yourself about your emotions, or even if something was even wrong. 

We'z messed up in the brain pan. 

For me, my history was my upbringing. Coming from emotional and physical abuse, we can't lash out at our parents. So we go silent. If we say we are upset, we just get another smack across the face. But if I'm silent...see...Im mad at you guys! Can't you tell because I'm not talking to you?

It took a lot of self reflection for me to get past my emotionally stunted way of thinking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Ynot said:


> Interesting, it sounds like the OP could have written all of the justifications for my ex leaving me including seeking justification for her actions. But as some others have asked - over the past 15 years have you trained him to do this? Perhaps by shutting him down when he has expressed concerns in the past? I know from experience, that all I was ever going to get what no matter what the issue was, was "I am doing the best I can and if you don't like it, I am leaving" No, discussion of whether my concerns were valid or invalid, or why I may have felt that way. Nope! Instead it was just a defensive reaction to something that genuinely bothered me, to hell with me or my concerns. I am sure my ex felt that she too was level headed and even tempered, but in retrospect, she knew as little about communicating as I did, despite proclaiming herself one of the world's best communicators. I would recommend that you attempt to genuinely communicate with him, in an open and non-confrontational way, what is truly bothering you AND he. Flame on!


I don't think in your situation you were using PA behaviour. I have a feeling you just hit "apathy"

Hope things are better or getting better, friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> If he committed some unforgivable transgression 12 years ago, the time to leave was 12 years ago. As the OP decided to stay, that indicated the matter was forgiven or accepted. If she goes back a dozen years looking for evil deeds for which he deserves current bad treatment or abandonment, I'm not even slightly surprised he doesn't want to argue with her. Leave but don't linger in place talking about it and rubbing his nose in it.


If it's true PA it's a confusing cycle. He made her feel like ultimate crap at dinner. Two days later he's all lovey. Buys some flowers. Gives compliments. Until the next time he feels slighted for any particular reason. Pick any one. This can go on for years. I could make it go on for years. Took my ex a decade to get the mental capacity back to understand I was the messed up one. 

Holding on to grudges? We are the ultimate best at that. Beverly time you "slight" us, we can mentally play back every single other time you "slighted us". We are the king fu crazy masters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Mrs.X said:


> All these experiences pile up and it's too much of a burden and I don't want to carry it anymore. No one should have to live like this. He is offended by who I am but who am I supposed to be if I can't be myself?


Welcome to Prozac.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> And this is why women logic fails when communicating to men when there are problems.
> 
> The H can be totally irrational -or- the OP could have an arguing style that causes the H to go silent. We asked for more details.


It's nothing to do with women logic fails to communicate, it's to do with the frustration of trying to communicate problems at all with someone who on being faced with any minor issue shuts down all communication. 

We have to take OP at what they say or there is little point even being here. 

In her case:

H and OP - have an issue talking due to his silent treatment
H and his siblings - are estranged due to his silent treatment
H and his own children - have problems due to his silent treatment

the logical thing to do in this case would be to look for a common factor. Obviously, due to the failure of female logic, the women in this thread jumped to the H as the common factor as did I with my superior male logic.



jdawg2015 said:


> I can think of so many threads where people jump the bandwagon then details leak out and people, oh, well in that case I would have to change my advice, etc. Sit back and get the fulls details before going in with pitch forks.


Yes, that happens. As facts change so should the analysis and conclusion. Should we just give the OP on each new thread the silent treatment until they add sufficient additional facts to support the conclusion we want? Sorry, there's me being PA now.



jdawg2015 said:


> The OP admitted to wanting to cut his clothes and hit the H. And then she shows signs of being very quick to be defensive. This kind of stuff can lead to a husband to be silent. Taking a totally one sided story and validating a poster unequivocally is not doing them any favors.


Have you lived with a PA? The frustration builds. You can't have a discussion with them knowing that as soon as you suggest or point something out that they don't want to hear or agree with that they will then shut down and cease talking. 

She communicated to him that she isn't going to this wedding as she doesn't want to be there with him pretending that they are a happily married couple. That is pretty clear.

He then came back with 



Mrs.X said:


> "Hey baby" as if nothing ever happened. He then went on to apologize for his actions and said he probably read me wrong, it won't happen again, blah, blah, blah...now what color dress are you wearing to the wedding?


That sounds to me as if he either wasn't listening or it didn't register. I may be wrong of course.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> The H can be totally irrational -or- the OP could have an arguing style that causes the H to go silent. We asked for more details.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you being deliberately obtuse? I don't know why you are focusing on what she is doing to him considering her husband has this same problems with his siblings and children. 

When you live with someone like this it has nothing to do with arguing. An argument doesn't even have to trigger the silent treatment. A comment can be taken the wrong way and then they don't talk for days. 

She has posted that she tries to communicate with him but he refuses to respond.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Originally Posted by Mrs.X View Post
"Hey baby" as if nothing ever happened. He then went on to apologize for his actions and said he probably read me wrong, it won't happen again, blah, blah, blah...now what color dress are you wearing to the wedding?

If he's true PA he's listening. Now he's into avoidance. He knows what he did. Admitting to it is another demon that will force him to face his behaviour and acknowledge it. Who the heck wants to do that!! That's scary stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

soccermom2three said:


> Are you being deliberately obtuse? I don't know why you are focusing on what she is doing to him considering her husband has this same problems with his siblings and children.
> 
> When you live with someone like this it has nothing to do with arguing. An argument doesn't even have to trigger the silent treatment. A comment can be taken the wrong way and then they don't talk for days.
> 
> She has posted that she tries to communicate with him but he refuses to respond.


Hi Soccer Mom. 

This is an understanding that has to be gained from experience, unfortunately. I don't think many will truly understand unless your on the receiving end of it. 

Much like I can sympathize with those dealing with spouses with NPD, BPD, PD. Unless I'm there, I won't truly get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Actually you need to look at her first post. Cutting clothes? Not exactly rational thought now is it? She wants to hit him. She even followed up with her on PA things she does. Some of this is tit for tat. So until you get into more details you guys are extracting way more things that you should from limited details.

I'll leave you "experts" alone. I bet with counselling between these two they could learn effective communication.

Right now there's a wall between them and the female brigade in this thread is giving advice based on a limited information. We don't have enough information from the OP, period.

Have fun. TAM posters have jumped the shark lately.



soccermom2three said:


> Are you being deliberately obtuse? I don't know why you are focusing on what she is doing to him considering her husband has this same problems with his siblings and children.
> 
> When you live with someone like this it has nothing to do with arguing. An argument doesn't even have to trigger the silent treatment. A comment can be taken the wrong way and then they don't talk for days.
> 
> She has posted that she tries to communicate with him but he refuses to respond.


----------



## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

alphaomega said:


> Originally Posted by Mrs.X View Post
> "Hey baby" as if nothing ever happened. He then went on to apologize for his actions and said he probably read me wrong, it won't happen again, blah, blah, blah...now what color dress are you wearing to the wedding?
> 
> If he's true PA he's listening. Now he's into avoidance. He knows what he did. Admitting to it is another demon that will force him to face his behaviour and acknowledge it. Who the heck wants to do that!! That's scary stuff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


AO. Thank you for your insights into the PA mindset. I can only speak for myself but they are a big help.

I'm pleased for you that you recognized and got over it. It destroyed my marriage.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

jdawg2015 said:


> Actually you need to look at her first post. Cutting clothes? Not exactly rational thought now is it? She wants to hit him. She even followed up with her on PA things she does. Some of this is tit for tat. So until you get into more details you guys are extracting way more things that you should from limited details.
> 
> I'll leave you "experts" alone. I bet with counselling between these two they could learn effective communication.
> 
> ...


Good post, jdawg

I don't claim to know if the husband or the wife or both are exhibiting true PA behaviour. Only a professional can make that diagnosis. 

But if you want to know about my own crazy, I have lots of experience at being a mook. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

jld said:


> Now we're getting somewhere . . .





Starstarfish said:


> Remember ladies, when women act irrational they are mentally ill, probably bipolar or BPD. There's no rational cause.
> 
> When men act irrational you've "triggered them" or made them that way. There's an explication somewhere, but we only hear one side of the story.
> 
> That's the double standard on TAM thar happens that makes people not want to listen. Just saying.


If you say so. So far I have not seen a peep out of any man or anyone else that the OP is mentally ill, bipolar and BPD. Nor I have seen that the man was MADE to feel that way or was triggered. It was only suggested that the OP at least consider these issues. Not that it was a fact. But again, if you and the rest of the arm chair therapists here want to imagine that, by all means, it is your right to do so. Just don't be surprised when all of the conclusions you have jumped to from hear say and only hearing one side of the story gets challenged.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Mrs.X said:


> So, I've had the "when you have a problem with me please talk to me instead of shutting down" discussion several times over the course of our marriage and it hasn't changed anything at all.


You don'tsay...

:banghead:




Mrs.X said:


> This is a tactic he's used against me for our entire 15 year marriage.


Here's a thought. Let's talk about Walk Away Wives with young couples BEFORE the marriage, not 15 years afterwards.

Just thinking out loud. 

Carry on fixing WAW # 14,457,930 as yet ANOTHER individual case of a wife walking. I guess that's easier than dealing with the overall problem.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

marduk said:


> The key to dealing with passive aggressive behaviour is just putting a smile on your face and living your life as if everything is great.
> 
> When my wife would give me the silent treatment, I'd grab the kids and take them for ice cream and to the park. Or go out with the boys. Or the gym. Or just go shoot some pool.
> 
> She used to carry on for days sometimes. After I started doing that, it was hours. Now it never happens. She can tell me what the problem is and we can talk about it and be good, or I can go and do something else fun and be good. Either way, I'm good.


Marduk, I am glad that worked for you and I was advised to do the same thing in response to the “silent treatment”. In my case all it did was escalate the situation in that each and every time I came home from an activity, like the ones you describe above, my XH would be waiting at the door and immediately start screaming at me (us, if kid was with me) about how horrible I was to be off having fun without him and not thinking about HIM. And I do mean screaming, it was almost like a meltdown. Anyhow, after that was over he would go right back to the silent treatment routine.

The point is that this type of behavior is always on a spectrum. Some, like your wife, are able to consider the consequences to her behavior and change their approach. Some, like my XH, are so far into the spectrum of character-disturbed behavior that they lack the ability to associate consequences with their own behavior.

This is explained masterfully in the following book, if you are interested:

Character Disturbance by George K. Simon PhD


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> Trying to understand what makes him go silent is not finding fault. She probably does do things that trigger. Does not mean it's rational. Or maybe she's doing something and not even realizing it.


Okay, I'll bite. What sorts of things might a person do, without realizing and without intent, that would trigger the silent treatment?

My XH would give me the silent treatment almost daily and I was always gob-smacked as to why. So, your insight could be helpful.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

If a man were here making the same complaints, I would bet dollars to donuts that the men telling her to suck it up and she needs to try harder would tell that man to divorce his uncaring wife. The OP didn't come here to be told to get back in the kitchen where she belongs. Her husband is a jerk to her and deserves to be left in the dust.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> Not sure I should be "thanked" for this.
> 
> But I'm glad you finally figured out you new found addiction to Prozac was all his Kung fu crazy. You will experience a mental peace like you haven't since you were 11, lying on the grass staring up at the clouds.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL, looking fwd to it!!!


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

You just proved to you guys its a gender thing. To me it's not.

Countless time on TAM people jump in with advice. In the case the OP wrote a venting post with massive lack of details to give solid advice.

TAM can be helpful or TAM can be the worst thing ever. Again, based on what OP said we don't have enough to go on. 



Blondilocks said:


> If a man were here making the same complaints, I would bet dollars to donuts that the men telling her to suck it up and she needs to try harder would tell that man to divorce his uncaring wife. The OP didn't come here to be told to get back in the kitchen where she belongs. Her husband is a jerk to her and deserves to be left in the dust.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

When one of the people has an "attacking" style of brining things up. Or that person says something that there's a no-win reply.

My exW was good at making "statements" not questions. So any answer was going to be debate or arguing rather than discussion. Silence and being very selective at answering became a defence mechanism.





Red Sonja said:


> Okay, I'll bite. What sorts of things might a person do, without realizing and without intent, that would trigger the silent treatment?
> 
> My XH would give me the silent treatment almost daily and I was always gob-smacked as to why. So, your insight could be helpful.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> If a man were here making the same complaints...


Yes. THAT'S going to help. Pure blame-game. REALLY hate the gender politics on this site.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Yes, it is going to help. A lot more than posters making arguments for their beliefs that are not supported in any way, shape or form. Asking for more information may be insightful for giving advice but the OP is under no obligation to share. That does not mean she is hiding anything. Frankly, she could have videoed the silent treatments over the years and posters would be saying "Look, right there, I think that's a smirk on her face - can you back it up so we can prove we're right".


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> When one of the people has an "attacking" style of brining things up. Or that person says something that there's a no-win reply.
> 
> My exW was good at making "statements" not questions. So any answer was going to be debate or arguing rather than discussion. Silence and being very selective at answering became a defence mechanism.


Thanks for answering. The above is confusing to me since an "attacking style" is intentional so the attacker would know what they are doing and should not be surprised at a negative response.

In my situation my XH could switch from calm/happy to furious/rage to "silent treatment" in a nanosecond and in the middle of a pleasant every-day conversation, it was very confusing and I never knew why it happened.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

jdawg2015 said:


> Again, based on what OP said we don't have enough to go on.


Really?

Didn't we all just agree that the silent treatment is a form of control, which is a type of abuse? And didn't a whole bunch of posters say "I/my spouse was JUST LIKE THAT"? And they all seemed to describe the same actions on the part of the abuser. Ergo this guy is an abuser.

You know how this works gals. "Leave the POS. You deserve so much better. YOU GO GIRL" And another wife walks. Rinse, repeat.

This problem should have been nipped in the bud early. Could I have you predicted these EXACT same specifics would happen? Of course not. I doubt in these early stages of love I could find ANYTHING he/she saw as a red warning flag for a walker. I doubt I could even identify the potential walkers.

But each and every couple should have statistics in from of them on divorce, loveless marriages or worse. Show them that the chances of this happening in their marriage are pretty good. Better than NOT happening at least. And it ALL follows the same pattern each and every time.

Wife feels lonely/smothered, abused/ignored, dealing with an addict or sick of living with a tea toddler. Over work and underappreciated or underworked and unfulfilled. Fill in the blank. There's really no wrong answer. And there are hundreds of possibilities. Maybe thousands.

Finally the bad behavior becomes too much for her to bear. Finally talks to him. No change. Threatens him. No change. Until she's blue in the face.

She FINALLY sells the fact that she is truly done and you have a weeping. crying, VERY malleable shell of a man that will do ANYTHING to get his wife back.

But by then it's too late. The marriage is done and fingers start pointing.

Rinse, repeat. 

I truly wonder why nobody but me wants to try to nip this particular phenomena in the bud. So likely to happen. Such a huge probability. Yet NOBODY can recognize what is going on and try to DO something about it.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Yes, it is going to help. A lot more than posters making arguments for their beliefs that are not supported in any way, shape or form. Asking for more information may be insightful for giving advice but the OP is under no obligation to share. That does not mean she is hiding anything. Frankly, she could have videoed the silent treatments over the years and posters would be saying "Look, right there, I think that's a smirk on her face - can you back it up so we can prove we're right".


I don't understand this. You are saying that finger pointing is going to help? Because THAT was my criticism.

And what more do you need to know? He's an abuser. What, maybe she's just a ***** and DESERVES the silent treatment? The only reason I would want you to respond is to clarify that you didn't mean that finger pointing is productive. And what more could you POSSIBLY want that could clarify something that hasn't been said in nine pages?

Until we try to nip this type of stuff before it happens, what good is any advice going to do? He's an abuser. Shes tired of living with him. LEAVE him. He deserves it.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Lets have a little fun. Red Sonja is our resident expert on this issue and a bit of a hero. She was able to build up the courage to leave her POS husband. She very much seems like she knows what she's talking about. 

Yet she understands THIS from a July 2014 thread:



Red Sonja said:


> Frankly, I am gob-smacked by his reaction to my leaving because I truly did not think he cared one way or the other.





Red Sonja said:


> I do not care whether we divorce or not (he knows this); I love him but I just cannot live with him any longer.
> 
> My current problem is that he is freaking-the-fvck-out (via texts) … not eating, anxiety, mea culpa’s, guilt trips, etc. I am very worried about him.


In hindsight, do you get ANYTHING out of this more than "Too little, too late fock-face, I'm gone". Is he trying to change? Do you see real effort? Real results? 

If only you could have known earlier, huh? How nice that would have been. If only HE could have known how far you were gone earlier he could have had his own personal mea culpa BEFORE it's too late. But it was too late here. It's ALWAYS too late.
@Red Sonja: Do you think that if either one of you could have done something 10 years ago, each of you knowing what you do now, but instead of after it's too late, maybe you could have actually worked on it?

Were his mea culpa's not genuine at all? You don't see ANY sincerity in him? Do you feel, as does @lifeistooshort, that the only reason he freaked out is because he lost his punching bag? As horrible as that sounds.

Or is it possible he wants to change now because you FINALLY got through that thick skull of his what an ass he is and how you were done?

D you really see him as a bad apple that will never change?

Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Glad you’re having fun @MachoMcCoy. 

This is not fun for me, leaving my marriage was about survival and it was devastating; not exactly “hero” behavior. Nor am I an "expert" in any of this rather I have learned through therapy and directed reading enough to know disordered character behavior when I see it and how to deal with it if necessary.

*Anyhow, yes I gave him another chance and below is what he did with it, perhaps you missed this while perusing my past posts:
*


Red Sonja said:


> *“That was all I asked of my XWW... give us 6 months of therapy, self help and time together and if it doesn't work out - then we break up as friends, knowing we tried.”*
> 
> This is what my STBXH asked of me a couple of months after I moved out of our home after 28 years of marriage. There was no infidelity involved in the marriage (or so I thought at the time). I left because of a very long history of severe neglect, vicious verbal assaults and sexless-ness and, he knew I was leaving.
> 
> ...


*You ask do I think he is a “bad apple that will never change”?
*
If he ever gets into therapy with an EXPERT who knows how to confront his behavior and diffuse his manipulation tactics, then yes he may change. I calmly (and sometimes not so calmly) confronted his behavior every step of the way for over two decades with no effect whatsoever; but then I’m no expert.


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## edouble (Feb 21, 2015)

I don't disagree if we have all of the information.I sometimes shut down like this but not over something trivial like that but there is always an arguement if phone bill,bank account,kids, socisl media interactions or household chores comes up.If she was expressing this issue to someone else or in a forum,I'm sure that she would present it as many have posted here.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I don't understand this. You are saying that finger pointing is going to help? Because THAT was my criticism.
> 
> And what more do you need to know? He's an abuser. What, maybe she's just a ***** and DESERVES the silent treatment? The only reason I would want you to respond is to clarify that you didn't mean that finger pointing is productive. And what more could you POSSIBLY want that could clarify something that hasn't been said in nine pages?
> 
> Until we try to nip this type of stuff before it happens, what good is any advice going to do? He's an abuser. Shes tired of living with him. LEAVE him. He deserves it.


Blame is necessary to determine who needs help. I don't need to know anything more. I'm beginning to think that you definitely deserve the silent treatment because I'm getting tired of your one-note routine.

Unless you're in everyone's home, you're not nipping anything. You rarely even offer advice - you just jump on your soap box and bellow. 

She is within her rights to not want to be treated like an object regardless of what some posters think. Since they don't know her husband, looks like they'll have to take her word - or not.

But, no need to insinuate she's a liar just because her situation cuts too close to home.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Holy Sh!t! Will the hyperbole never stop! No one said she didn't deserve to leave IF her H is a jerk. No one said she was irrational, mentally ill or BPD. Nobody called her a liar or said she was lying. But that doesn't stop the echo chamber from continuing to spew that crap over and over.
Some of us offered a different perspective for the OP to consider. Some of us even wished her well with whatever decision she makes. That does not make us women-haters. it does not make us misogynists, it does not make us bitter angry men. It doesn't mean we are blaming the OP. It simply means that our perception of the issue (that being lack of effective communication) is not the same as the arm chair therapists who have declared her H as being PA, despite only hearing one side of the story.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Mrs X, I want to share something that my counselor and I talked about yesterday. My husband is a master at PA behavior and I have taken advise from various counselors and read books and on the internet how to deal with this behavior and have been unsuccessful. My counselor was saying that what lies beneath the PA personality is insecurity. At some point in his life he did not receive enough good kudos from his parents which made he feel unloved/unwanted/not appreciated. As an adult he has sought attention in various forms to get what his heart desires, to be "filled" but rather than seeking in healthy ways to fulfill himself he seeks in negative ways. He cannot voice his true feelings, perhaps not even sure what he is truly feeling, but to express himself makes him vulnerable and he cannot risk that vulnerability. He has to save himself and that is all he cares about is himself, his focus is on him and what pleases him so if he hurts someone it does nothing to his inner peace, he has no empathy, he cannot feel your distraught, he does not care. There is an element of anger within the PA and that you see turns into a silent revenge....covert abuse. You have to pay for disappointing him but his logic is terribly messed up. He is actually the one dishing the hurtful acts but cannot identify with it. he feels justified in his acts because " you" caused him this hurt. 

To the other posters here saying this is a gender issue, it is not. In my situation as a child growing up it was my mom who was PA. My parents roles were somewhat reversed. It was my dad that got up with us kids in the morning and made us breakfast and got us off to school. My dad was more of the care giver, he was the one that would sit us down and have talks. My mom was caught up in her own issues, her own anger and was drinking her life away to avoid feeling. The spitting image of my husband (or vise versa). My mother was a victim of abuse as a child and all of our marriage counselors have said my husband sustained something traumatic in his child hood as well but he is unable to identify.

Perhaps none of this pertains to OP but then maybe it does, none of us know, only she knows. What I do know is getting out from under these situations is not easy and we are here to help OP. She ultimately makes her own decisions.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

In my reading about literally thousands of relationships on TAM, I've noticed some distinctive patterns.

Let's begin with the way Mr. X responds to discovering that his wife is planning to socialize with other folks. 

He is consistently hostile to this idea. Now he 'claims' that the basis for his anger is the 'timing' of the communication, but that my friends is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth. 

He is a jealous, controlling person who is punishing her for spending time with friends. 

And he absolutely wants her to 'ask his permission' in these situations. 

That plus his inability to maintain - even core familial relationships - tells me all I need to know.





soccermom2three said:


> Mrs.X stated that her husband has also alienated his siblings and children with his behavior so she is not the only one he treats this way. It not something she is doing to "make him this way".
> 
> When one person is the common denominator in their relationship problems with others then yes it is solely their fault. It surely isn't anyone else's fault if they don't want to tip toe around someone that is constantly misinterpreting facial expressions or comments. People shouldn't have to live praying they don't trigger someone's irrational behavior.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

MEM I also picked up on the social aspect of this. That why I mentioned aspergers. Lot of hints of it.

Notice how this social interaction thing is basically all she complained about.



MEM11363 said:


> In my reading about literally thousands of relationships on TAM, I've noticed some distinctive patterns.
> 
> Let's begin with the way Mr. X responds to discovering that his wife is planning to socialize with other folks.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I live with this. 

Not the silent treatment as that is wholly ineffective with me. 

But - the jealousy hidden behind synthetic 'issues'. 
Instead of: I feel jealous which is making me anxious

What happens is that the other person suddenly constructs things to be angry about. 

The jealousy/controlling/competitive stuff is big. It's likely why my behavior at times seems - unusual. No one is better than M2 in one on one situations. She is close to a perfect - desert island companion.

But this other stuff - is difficult. Why - when M2 occasionally says she is 'leaving' - I just shrug. 






jdawg2015 said:


> MEM I also picked up on the social aspect of this. That why I mentioned aspergers. Lot of hints of it.
> 
> Notice how this social interaction thing is basically all she complained about.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I too have some experience with the silent treatment, lest you guys think I don't understand. Except that's it's me that's been known to give it.

I know, I know, how could that be based on what a big mouth I have here on TAM? Well let me explain.

See my hb is very PA and conflict avoidant; the elephant could be sitting in his lap and he'd just look around it and talk about sports and the weather. He is a master at playing dumb. I can't tell you how many times he's done or said something crappy and then just played dumb, hoping it would go away. And if I don't get over it right away he'll insult my intelligence by looking at me and asking "how ya doing?". WTF? How the fvck do you think I'm doing? If you're going to bury your head in the sand don't insult my intelligence further with questions like that.

So the responsibility falls on me pretty much every single time to broach difficult subjects.

I realize that some might ask why I don't just tell him that he did or said X; and I have done it before. But it becomes emotionally exhausting to be the one who has to bring everything up, and then be accused of being negative because I don't just "get over it". I was told that, that he just prefers to focus on the positive and why do I have to focus on the negative. So in other words it doesn't matter if you do or say something crappy if you're just nice enough after that; but from where I sit it's not focusing on the positive, it's burying your head in the sand. And for all of his talk about focusing on the positive things bother him too, it's just that his displeasure comes out in other subtle PA ways, like snotty under the breath comments or little d!ck moves.

So something that could have been settled in two minutes with an acknowledgement and an I'm sorry let's talk about this now becomes a huge deal, with him playing dumb hoping it goes away. If I bring it up he'll play dumb like he had no idea, except that he's often admitted that he did know what was wrong and hoped it would go away. So it's really a win for him either way because he risks nothing; he can play dumb and maybe it will go away, but if it doesn't and I bring it up and can continue to play dumb like he had no idea and then apologize half heartedly, like he's doing me a big favor because I'm making such a big deal out of it and focusing on the negative.

I'll provide a nice example: one time we were at a dinner involving his daughter so of course his ex wife and other family was there. He didn't sit by me, and his ex wife ended up sitting next to him instead. Some of you may know that he's had horrible boundaries with her and her family in the past, so in this case I was basically sitting in the corner, isolated, while he chatted with his ex wife and the family about how things were when they were married and daughter was little. I can't tell you how uncomfortable I was, and the one time he spoke to me was to snark at me for not being more social. I had others at the table looking at me with a look of pity, and of course when we left he played dumb. I didn't speak to him for the rest of the night; why should I have had to bring that one up? Why does he get to play dumb and leave it to me? 

Well guess what? The next day was our anniversary and he was off work while I had to work; I came home to half arse flowers and he ignored everything and played dumb. I lost my fvcking mind and we had it out, during which time he admitted that he knew I was upset and hoped it would go away. Then he tried to deny that he'd spent way more time talking with his ex than me before admitting that he knew he'd made a mistake, but once again instead of coming to me and addressing it he played dumb, then when I blew up he apologized. I come out of it feeling like the apology was forced and he's just trying to shut me up, so my feeling on the matter is far less important than him not being uncomfortable. I told him then that I would not be accompanying to any more of these family functions and if he wanted to go and pretend like they were all a happy family he could do it without me. Which he won't do because then it would be so obvious that he couldn't play dumb anymore and he'd have to explain why I wasn't there, which might make HIM look bad and of course we can't have that. Which is funny because if it's no big deal then what's the problem explaining it to others?

I know I've just vented but this is the source of my silent treatment; I'm tired of him playing dumb and always having to be the one to bring up difficult subjects and then being accused of being negative.

But my silent treatments do not have the nasty, controlling aspect of OP's; I don't do it when he doesn't call me the second he makes plans because he doesn't have to, I don't give it to him because he makes a comment about the dishes I just did because that's ridiculous. This is why I think she can't work with this guy, because the nasty controlling aspect of this makes her his emotional punching bag and is a big part of the power balance between the two of them. He uses this to maintain the upper hand; when I do it it's got nothing to do with maintaining the upper hand, it's got to do with the playing dumb quality that my husband is so good at.

In fairness my hb is doing a lot better and I'm giving this silent treatment much less these days as we've had some arguments, and he seems to be making efforts to do better. And he's mostly cleared up the boundary issues with ex and her family, and ex is now remarried anyway. It's just a lot of years of this habit and that's a lot to break.

And even though I have done this I have plenty of friends, so well at work, and don't have any trouble with alienating anyone.

I don't think OP can work with this though unless he gets some intensive IC to stop the need to maintain the emotional upper hand. Her leaving might be the only way to force it, and even then she might be done.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So, is there a way to fix this so she can be happy with this guy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> So, is there a way to fix this so she can be happy with this guy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think, as I said in my big vent, that he needs IC to let go of the need to maintain the emotional upper hand. That's at the root of the nasty, controlling type of silent treatment and is not gender specific. We see threads with wives doing this as well.

Some of her responses might be a natural rebellious reaction of one who is subject to this, like a rebellious teenager. The more he manipulates to keep the upper hand and essentially "keep her in line" the more she's going to fight back in unhealthy ways. One thing I understand is that trying to deal with someone that won't deal with anything is enough to make anyone question their own sanity.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I found that my ex would give me the silent treatment. Lots of times I had been an ass. Just grumpy and said mean things as a result of her berating me because I didn't wNt to go visit the inlaws or something.
It always hurt me. I hated it. I get mad, but I get it all out and I'm fine. Women, I learned, take things to heart and stay angry longer. Get resentful easier. 
So I easily see why OP is hurt and had enough. But it's sad that they can't get help for this. Surely if she left, her husband would see the error if his ways and change, especially since it appears she's all he has. I'll bet he adores this woman, otherwise he wouldn't get angry so easily and pull stupid stunts. If he didn't care, he wouldn't act like a big baby. Definitely he has some issues he could get help on. It's all a shame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So why did it not occur to you to just apologize for being an a$$ or saying mean things? 

Maybe that would've ended the argument. I know it would for me, and the very few times my hb has addressed what he knows is bothering me it goes away quickly. 

When I know he's po'd I go straight to him. I'd never ignore it and play dumb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Life,

The playing dumb thing - I learned how to deal with that a long time ago.

M2 fvcking hates marriage counseling. It's an Irish thing - anyway she hates it. 

Al I have to say is: babe, I think it would work better, having a neutral third party explain this to you. I'll schedule something for next week.

Almost always produces instant comprehension. 

To be fair - it is a lot less common now as we have much less conflict than we used to. And when she does that socially competitive stuff - I just respond with a puzzled tone. 

A desert island, a desert island, my kingdom for a desert island.






lifeistooshort said:


> I think, as I said in my big vent, that he needs IC to let go of the need to maintain the emotional upper hand.  That's at the root of the nasty, controlling type of silent treatment and is not gender specific. We see threads with wives doing this as well.
> 
> Some of her responses might be a natural rebellious reaction of one who is subject to this, like a rebellious teenager. The more he manipulates to keep the upper hand and essentially "keep her in line" the more she's going to fight back in unhealthy ways. One thing I understand is that trying to deal with someone that won't deal with anything is enough to make anyone question their own sanity.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> So why did it not occur to you to just apologize for being an a$$ or saying mean things?
> 
> Maybe that would've ended the argument. I know it would for me, and the very few times my hb has addressed what he knows is bothering me it goes away quickly.
> 
> ...


I did apologize. Every time. 
I can recall once in 18 years that she did. And that was for hitting me numerous times in a fit of rage induced by diet pills. Two weeks later After she said she'd quit them (she had a splitting headache the night she hit me), she was going out with her parents (she was driving) and started having slurred speech and blurry vision. They called 911 and she had blood pressure that was stroke level. She apologized for the hitting event that same night. But the diet pills never stopped. I didn't hold a grudge. I got over it. I was so surprised she apologized I melted. I was fine.

I hated when she was angry at me and gave me the silent treatment. I never wanted to go to bed mad
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Katiebird (Jun 7, 2010)

I just read this thread tonight. The OP's story could have been mine. After 20+ years of this - starting just a few months after we married (and I was going to call it quits at that time - second marriage and I don't need to go through this s#%& again) but a family emergency put the kibosh on that. Since then it has been happening on a regular basis - same pattern -- no explanation, and then in a few days "back to normal". After the last time, I am not back to normal. Frankly, I have given up. I am communicating but sadly, I have lost all desire to make this work. I am resigned to living as roommates. I have always been the one to try to work things out. Not this time.

I have put up with silent treatment on vacations, which ruined several for me and my kids, at holidays, etc. I have had numerous birthdays and anniversaries forgotten. When I told him I needed surgery, his first reaction was - "how much is that going to cost ME" and although he took me and picked me up several days later - he didn't come to visit. 

Then about 6 months ago, he decided to get all nice. He's brought me flowers twice - never before. Finishing a project. Still we went through the silent treatment a month or so ago - and like OP - that was it.

Unless you have lived with a PA person - you have no idea what it is like.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Blame is necessary to determine who needs help.


I guess. I just don't know how that works when the boys always say the girl is wrong and the girls always say the boy is wrong. It's gender specific finger pointing that's not working.

What I do NOT understand is why I'm the radical here. You are all correct. I do not give a rat's a$$ about ANY of these individual Walk-Away-Wife stories. What interests ME is that they all follow the EXACT SAME PATTERN. They all have the EXACT SAME DYNAMIC. And NONE OF YOU can see the forest through the trees.

One more time:


Man and Woman marry
Honeymoon stage ends, and those quirky little habits of his that you could tolerate when you were in love are not fun any more.
Woman tells man to stop.
Man doesn't hear.
Woman tells man a few more times.
Man doesn't hear. 
Woman tells man louder and with threats until she's "blue in the face".
Man doesn't hear.
Woman leaves man.
*Man FINALLY hears. Loud and clear. Life crushed. Begs and pleads for another chance.*
Woman says "too late $hithead, I've moved on".

Rinse, repeat.

Happens thousands and thousands of times per day. I find it fascinating that you all think this pandemic can be stopped, one case at a time, AFTER it's too late.

I lived the power of that bolded statement. I've seen that power at work in hundreds of cases on these forums. My life goal is to move that bolded statement, in a different form, to the TOP of that list. Right before "men and women marry". 

FASCINATING that ALL OF YOU see the power of that dynamic as well. And instead of using this force for good, you all use it for "you go girl".

And you son's will continue to become me, and you daughters will continue to marry us.

Rinse, repeat.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> So, is there a way to fix this so she can be happy with this guy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course not. By the time they get here, it's too late.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think, as I said in my big vent, that he needs IC to let go of the need to maintain the emotional upper hand.


And you are a veteran here.

Just out of curiosity, how do you get an abuser to counseling when they know they are always right?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Counselling... I think the only time it actually helps is when a person is ready to admit they need to change their behaviour or thought patterns and they are just looking for effective ways of doing that. Considering a PA person avoids self-reflection, getting them to that point would take a miracle IMO.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

breeze said:


> Counselling... I think the only time it actually helps is when a person is ready to admit they need to change their behaviour or thought patterns and they are just looking for effective ways of doing that.


And if you want a few suggestions as to how to get an abuser to WANT to change, read a little of the Macho Man's philosophy of marriage. I think he'd say something like "kick him in the gut", or "crush his world".

Or you can "talk". That's the common elixer here. And we're still at well over 50% WAW/Divorce rates.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> And you are a veteran here.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how do you get an abuser to counseling when they know they are always right?


Do something very counterintuitive: dump them while you're still emotionally invested in them. This way if it becomes a wake up call you still have feelings to work with, and if not you can start detaching.

So few people understand this though. If they're still invested they're "not ready" to give up and thus the cycle continues. 

My hb and I have had a few come to Jesus moments while I'm still invested, so when he makes some effort it still matters.

I told him that the only reason I still give a sh!t is because I love him. I also told him that if I didn't love him I wouldn't care what he did and that would be it.

He heard that. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Katiebird said:


> I just read this thread tonight. The OP's story could have been mine. After 20+ years of this - starting just a few months after we married (and I was going to call it quits at that time - second marriage and I don't need to go through this s#%& again) but a family emergency put the kibosh on that. Since then it has been happening on a regular basis - same pattern -- no explanation, and then in a few days "back to normal". After the last time, I am not back to normal. Frankly, I have given up. I am communicating but sadly, I have lost all desire to make this work. I am resigned to living as roommates. I have always been the one to try to work things out. Not this time.
> 
> I have put up with silent treatment on vacations, which ruined several for me and my kids, at holidays, etc. I have had numerous birthdays and anniversaries forgotten. When I told him I needed surgery, his first reaction was - "how much is that going to cost ME" and although he took me and picked me up several days later - he didn't come to visit.
> 
> ...


KatieBird, same here and I did try too. Communication issues were probably our first signs of trouble. On a trip before we married, driving across the states husband decided to stop talking to me all together. I would ask him a question and he would not answer. This went on for hours. I asked me if he was avoiding me, we did not have any issues, there had been no disagreement or fight. When he finally spoke and I asked him why he was not answering me he laughed, said he thought it would be funny. This was probably my biggest clue to the way this man thinks. Full of pranks and he doesn't care how they make you feel.....jumping out from behind doors, coming up behind you stopping his feet, crushing plastic bottles...all to startle, annoying and when asked to stop he does not, he thinks they are funny so I feelings are at his expense.

When the kids would go to him and ask if they could go do something he would literally sit there and act like he had not heard them at all. I would ask him if he heard what they had said, he had but he said he did not know how to respond. I would tell him that he had to at least say that I will give that some thought to acknowledge he heard them. You see though, I saw his dad do this very same thing to his mom so i have no doubt that his dad did this to him as well and he saw it as an example of how men should treat their wife and children.

When angered by something the silent treatment would be even worse. You could see the hatred in his eyes and with time I knew that I would pay some way for whatever I did, didn't do to please him or for something I had said. My husband did not like to be talked to about his behaviors of seeking women, his drinking habits or helping out with the kids and the home. If I wanted help or told him his behavior was hurting me, I would be ignored because I hurt him. There did not have to be a fight or harsh words said. 

I would try to reason with husband but his reasoning was totally off kilter and instead of seeing what I was trying to say he would place blame. He never apologized for anything, never accepted responsibility for his actions. It was all about him and everyone had to please him.

One night he had been drinking, an on-going problem with him, and he just walked away from me while I was talking to him. This was 15 years into our marriage. I had finally had enough, tired of being ignore so I went after him and I pulled on the back of the collar of his shirt and told him to never walk away from me while I was talking to him. he turned around with that furry in his eyes like he wanted to kill me, took my hand and started twisting. I was screaming and kicking and hitting him with my other hand and he just kept twisting. There was a pop and he released my had. I called the police and he was asked to leave. I ended up with a broken finger which had to be spitted and then had to have 6 months of physical therapy once healed.

There were simpler things that happened as well. One time our teenage daughter mouthed at him like teens do. I didn't take it offensively but he did because she had raised her voice to him. He said nothing to her, avoided her for days and then he told me that it really made him mad and he told me he terminated one of her gaming accts online and said it will be interesting to see how she takes that. So, again, revenge and this time the revenge was pointed towards his own daughter. How dare she cross him and without a word to her he cut her off.

This is a man that has been an admitted porn addict that has sought out 3 emotional affairs and if you go any place with him he scopes the room for some girl to lock his eyes on and I do believe he gets caught up in fantasy about this girl. Searches on the internet for sex articles, busty women pics, anything to feed that non-quenchable thirst for sexual excitement. Just months after we were married I went to him for sex, which was the norm....I was the initiator 85% of the time if not more) and he turned me down. I went to sleep and the next day asked why he wasn't interested. His response was he wanted me to know what it felt like to be rejected. So he is seeking other women, I am the one going to him for sex ey he wants me to know what it feels like to be rejected? Who is rejecting who here? and that would be the way it would be for the 24 years I have been married to this man. I was to please him and if I did not go to him and seek him for sex it would anger him. I finally stopped playing his games about 19 years into the marriage. I had enough and knew there was no way to please this twisted man.

I tried to stay as friends and live as roommates but once I emotionally left the marriage everything about him started to get to me and as I became healthier in myself I knew I could not stay, not even for the sake of our children.

I am currently waiting to hear back from my attorney with a final date on the divorce and I can say I look forward to my life without all this BS.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I guess. I just don't know how that works when the boys always say the girl is wrong and the girls always say the boy is wrong. It's gender specific finger pointing that's not working.
> 
> What I do NOT understand is why I'm the radical here. You are all correct. I do not give a rat's a$$ about ANY of these individual Walk-Away-Wife stories. What interests ME is that they all follow the EXACT SAME PATTERN. They all have the EXACT SAME DYNAMIC. And NONE OF YOU can see the forest through the trees.
> 
> ...


Macho, let me see if this might makes sense. I see what you are saying but I think that what happens in the beginning of relationships is very hormonal; that I am so in love with you feeling that makes everything seem doable.... "Oh, he loves me, he really didn't mean to hurt me by saying those things." What we might not be able to see in this stage of the relationship is (in some cases) the lies we are being told, lies of who this person is and of their past. We might feel that he is a good guy that just has been been given a fair shake in life...."how could his ex have treated him this way, he is such a good guy."We excuse the behavior, pass up the red flags. Perhaps we do talk about the issues and in this 'in love' stages we might actually work thru an issue or at least temporarily they are held at bay.

I think once those starry eyes love hormones subside and we end up dealing with an issue of conflict then couples have a different reaction than when those hormones were rushing with love. I think it is this stage of our relationships that starts taking a toll on the marriage. We might resolve some conflicts but others are held with deep hurts. This might be where the truths start coming out and you realize this person is not who you thoughts they were and their lies of their past become apparent. In some cases a spouse might start avoidant tactics or there might be anger expressed which causes more hurt but we are not resolving the conflicts and in many cases there is no resolve. Old habits might pop out, addictions might become more apparent or problematic. Denial, blame, more lies to cover actions. Bitterness ensues. 

Then when every option for healing, recovery, honest communication, resolve is depleted we emotionally leave the marriage and in some cases become roommates living in this strange relationship of legal bonding without the loving mutual bond. We have been hurt beyond repair and we know that there is no longer any hope. Some choose to stay and seek their own life within this legal or religious commitment while others choose to exit.

As far as the wife finally leaving because she has not been heard and only then the husband wakes up and is willing to try whatever it takes to make the marriage work, the relationship was not operating at a mutually functioning level AND even if the wife were to make another effort for the marriage it could be that things might be okay for awhile but then things would fall back into old habits. One thing that is hard to change is patterns of behavior. When we are hurt by whatever we have a norm in how we react, that could create a reaction in the other person that causes the marriage to be stuck. These patterns that cause the marriage to be stuck are very difficult to work thru because we have to be able to identify with the behavior that is causing the distress in the marriage and most times we cannot do that. 

So yes, we wash our hands and we do it all over again but this goes both ways for men as well as women.

I have been married twice. My first husband was a serial cheater, trying to get in the pants of any woman that walked. He wanted me to be a part of it but I opted put, not for me. It was his lies and cheating that destroyed our marriage. I did still love him when we divorced despite his actions but I was not going to stay married to a man that cheated. he knew he was doing wrong but he also liked what he was doing and did not want help. He went on to do the very same in his second marriage and is with another woman now and has cheated on her as well. He has never learned that cheating on his wife is not acceptable. He has never learned to be honest and he just continues to blow smoke and manipulate to get what he wants from everyone around him.

My second husband (the man I am divorcing after 24 years of marriage) was not much different....addiction issues, lies, PA behavior. In this situation things were not rosy when dating. I did see the red flags but "thought" he was a willing partner to work thru the issues and in the beginning he appeared to be. Once we said "I do" I saw a change in him almost over night. I was to care for our 4 children (his and mine-step family) and he did not even try with his own kids. It was like once that contract was signed he no longer had to try. he reached his goal and now onto other things and what he went onto was seeking other women. In our first year of marriage he had his first emotional affair. So while I was working part-time, caring for 4 children, maintaining the house and yard and everything else that goes into balancing a family life he was seeking this other woman for conversation, to get her to laugh at his jokes, taking her to lunch and ignoring me at home as he was caught up with this other woman emotionally. I was crushed, hurt, felt stabbed in the back, we talked, he lied, I could see what was going on and he continued, I kept trying harder, again I was the one going to him for sex and within two years of that marriage I felt used, unloved, I felt like I was the housekeeper and nanny. His free time was spent watching TV, doing crossword puzzles, anything to avoid time with me and the family. What thrilled him was lust for other women. I no longer knew why we even married. He would buy me a necklace or give me a card but there was no loving comments....it was more of lustful sexually oriented comments that made me believe all I was to him was a sex toy.

Perhaps my situations isn't typical...I have not clue but what i did have to do was look deep inside myself and ask why I was with two men that were so much alike and what attracted me to these men. This is something I never ever want to repeat. I have been in therapy for over 4 years and I have had to go back to my own childhood to put the pieces of my life together. I know that in the case of both husbands that in order for them to each deal with their addiction issues that they too will have to do the same but this is not my obligation to either of my husbands. This is something they have to want and seek for themselves. We all are on our journey thru life and we all have to deal with our own issues. I had to come face to face with a great deal of rejection that went back to my childhood, I had to conquer fears to get me to where I am today. If I thought for a second that my husband could love me instead of being caught up in his addictive behavior I would stay but I see it is not possible. Perhaps one day he will seek healing for himself but not while in this marriage.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I guess. I just don't know how that works when the boys always say the girl is wrong and the girls always say the boy is wrong. It's gender specific finger pointing that's not working.
> .


Where is anyone gender specific finger pointing? All I've seen is a couple of men trying to blame the wife for his behavior when it's been clear that the husband has this issue with others too. 

In this thread it just happens to be women that are posting their experiences with the silent treatment but I've also read other threads with men that have been victims. In my case, growing up in was my mother that would do this to the family so my dad and brother were also affected. Not as bad as the cases here but enough to walk around on egg shells. To this day, when my brother and I talk we will ask each other, "How is mom doing? Is she mad at anyone?"


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> Where is anyone gender specific finger pointing?


Sorry SM23. I'm a big picture guy. You all keep looking at each specific instance like it means something. I'm sure I was referring to my personal macro issue here. 

You don;t want to hear about it. Trust me.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> So, is there a way to fix this so she can be happy with this guy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She doesn't need to fix it. He does. 

Can he change? Of course. If he wants to. That's the million dollar question We tend to get comfortable and set in our ways. Change is very terrifying. He will either take the proverbial two by four to the head and do something productive and life changing with it, or just continue to blame everything else around him - business as usual. 

I'm not sure I follow the Walk away Wife logic posted above, though. And how if we all just talked more, this step would be avoided. 

My wife walked away from me. And it was probably the healthiest thing she did with her life. If you've lived with a true PA, it's not walking away. It's getting out with your sanity. And it wasn't a surprise to me, at least. I knew i was messed up. I knew the shat I was pulling. I also, deep down, knew the inevitable outcome of my behaviour. 

There's no amount or number of attempts at talking that would have fixed my relationship. Why? Because I didn't talk. You can't talk to a PA. We mostly just shut down. Go silent. Get mad at you at even bringing up such a terrifying topic, or suggesting that I have issues. Fk you! I'm not talking to you for a few days now. 

Don't walk away from this if you meet me. Fkn run.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

wow. Talking about this stuff tonight, for some reason, is bubbling up some bad mojo reflections in my skull. 

Usually I can self reflect and it doesn't bother me. 

You see, I've learned to become a "glass half empty" kind of guy now. My glass of learning is always half empty, as there is always more I need to learn to try to fill up the glass. 

I'm very much more mature in the head now, after being stunted for so long. And I don't shut down or do avoidance anymore when getting slighted or someone "suggests" something I need to change about myself. It took a long time to get here, but my favourite response when dealing with confrontation is to shrug, and say.."yeah. I'm mostly a dumb azz. I can see how that can be bothersome or annoying. ". 

I'm still in my MMA classes, though. So don't start escalating to the physical. I've gotten very bendy for an old Fk. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Red Sonja said:


> Marduk, I am glad that worked for you and I was advised to do the same thing in response to the “silent treatment”. In my case all it did was escalate the situation in that each and every time I came home from an activity, like the ones you describe above, my XH would be waiting at the door and immediately start screaming at me (us, if kid was with me) about how horrible I was to be off having fun without him and not thinking about HIM. And I do mean screaming, it was almost like a meltdown. Anyhow, after that was over he would go right back to the silent treatment routine.
> 
> The point is that this type of behavior is always on a spectrum. Some, like your wife, are able to consider the consequences to her behavior and change their approach. Some, like my XH, are so far into the spectrum of character-disturbed behavior that they lack the ability to associate consequences with their own behavior.
> 
> ...


That's abuse.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

Where is Mrs. X?

Anyway, my mom used to give me and my sisters the silent treatment when she was unhappy with us when we were young. There was nothing more agonizing! To be completely ignored by the one person we loved the most was a horrible experience. It was how her family "handled" unhappiness.

I have no idea where I got a healthy bone in my body, but one day when I was fifteen or so, and receiving the "silent" treatment from mom, I said "Mom, how can I know why you're unhappy with me if you won't tell me?" She then opened up and complained about our socks on the living room floor. 

I don't let my mom (or anyone) get away with that crap any longer.

There's no freaking way I'd marry a passive/aggressive. 

I hope Mrs. X is doing well.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

introvert said:


> Where is Mrs. X?
> 
> Anyway, my mom used to give me and my sisters the silent treatment when she was unhappy with us when we were young. There was nothing more agonizing! To be completely ignored by the one person we loved the most was a horrible experience. It was how her family "handled" unhappiness.
> 
> ...


Well....

Introvert. You most definitely could. Unfortunately. 

Why? Because we are at our best at the beginning of a relationship. You see, most of us are pleasers. We bend over backwards to make you feel special, the most important person in the world. And you eat it up and think we are Fkn awesome. Definitely marriage material. 

But unfortunately, all that pleasing comes with a covert contract. You need to totally worship us all the time, make us feel like kings. Why? Because our soul is empty and we are craving something. It's different for all of us. And you should be the ones filling that void. 

Unfortunately, relationships don't work that way. After the hormones and Lust wears off, as in most relationships, Routine sets in. You notice our annoying habits. Our really bad ones, too. You speak your mind. We don't like it. 

It's an assault on our perfectness In the relationship. What? We have flaws? And now your calling me out on them? No Fkn way!! Oh shot!!! I can't deal with this!! What do I do!!!

Ok!!! I avoid it. Pretend I didn't hear you. And if your persistent? Fk this!!! Fk you!! I'm not dealing with this. I'm not talking to you now for days. Beotch!!!! Maybe your the Fkn one with the problem!!!!! Look all all the nice shat I did for you in our relationship. Look at how well I treated you??? You owe me!!!!!!!!

.and days...and days. But it's been too long. I crave your attention. It's validating something in me. Ok. Be nice now. Buy flowers. Make compliments. Anything to make peace. But let's pretend we didn't argue. I can't deal with that. I don't want to admit that I need to face my scary demons. 

Oh shat!! You brought it up again. And something new this time!!! Fk you!!!! Again!!! Oh, so now I suck because I didn't putt the glass in the right spot in the dishwasher and it bounced around and broke. Yeah, I get it. I suck. Just like all the other million times you didn't say i suck but I know you think I suck. You suck too!!! 

No!!! Nothing's wrong!!! I'm just not talking to you for a few days, beotch. 

Rinse and repeat. But by the time you realize what the Fk we are doing and how we are manipulating you, it could be years and years to see through our patheticness
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

You OWE me!!!!

Those three words pretty much sums up our type of crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

marduk said:


> That's abuse.


Yes, it is and, the silent treatment is also a form of abuse. I was trying to point out, for the benefit of the OP, that the proper methods of responding to the silent treatment will not _always _work.

She should try the (correct) method that you described but be prepared just in case it results in an escalation of the abuse (as in my case).


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I wonder if Mrs. X will be back... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fertileground (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi,
In regards to some of the posters feeling like the OP was displaying inappropriate reactions, and that we do not actually know if this is a quiet man who is avoiding conflict or a true PA person- we aren't there and don't actually know, we just can share our experiences with someone being passive aggressive. In my case, my STBX was passive aggressive all throughout the marriage. Anytime, I brought up any concern (and not in a rude way), I knew that he would not talk to me for the next week or more. He would go to the bookstore every evening and then sleep on the couch. If I tried to hug him, he would turn sideways and give me like a solid wall. After 8 or 9 days, I would be so anxious and sick to my stomach, that I would beg him to talk to me and I would apologize for anything and everything. So, I learned to stuff all my concerns inside and never shared with him about anything that was bothering me. 

I think after stuffing things down for so long, it became like a soda that has been shaken. Many years later (10 or so) when I noticed that he was treating our kids just as bad, I think I kind of exploded- like the OP. I would yell and swear- and I rarely swear. In fact, I think he is the only person I have ever directly sworn at in my whole life. I am sure that I was the one who looked crazy, but I think after all the years of walking on eggshells and begging for him to forgive every little slight, i just lost it.
We are separated now, and in the process of divorce, and I still feel like he tries to control me- financially and emotionally. He is the one who actually asked for the separation and divorce, and immediately started dating someone 18 years younger. It has taken me this separation time to realize how unhealthy it was.
If the OP's husband is passive aggressive- it is truly a hard thing to live with.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> Well....
> 
> Introvert. You most definitely could. Unfortunately.
> 
> ...


My SRBXH is doing this right now....actually not sure he stopped but it is worse right now. I was the one that filed for divorce, we are still under the same roof. Since having our nice peaceful talk about me filing where he was completely agreeable to everything, no cross words which is typical with him, he acts out rather than expresses, he now is doing PA stuff trying to get a rise out of me. he went a week or two completely ignoring me, would actually turn his back to me if I was in the same room at the same time. Now he is trying to be nice. On the visible surface of dealing with him he is being kind and has bought dinner to bring home (not usual), told me he understood having to pay more alimony the first 6 months and that he would take money out of savings for himself if he had to, we were even invited to dinner with a few couples and as soon as he realized he was starring at one of the ladies (norm) he stopped, he caught himself and stopped (not the norm). At the same time though vindictive actions have popped up. He liked a statement a friend posted on social media about wanting to hold a person's head under water. He has started throwing his sweaty gross gym clothes in the laundry basket, something I asked him years a
go not to do. He started doing that and I quit doing his laundry and I no longer put my clothes in the hamper. Toilet seats left up, dishes left in the sink, bed not made, watching his favorite programs...walked in the other day to some naked girl cuddled up to some guy on the screen of the program he was watching, Star Trek has become an even bigger favorite (I don't care for the program so it has to be more now). I know what he is trying to do and I am going to play his game. I have kept my mouth shut. 

It is like there is this battle going on in his head. he wants me to stay so he will be nice now but he is mad at me for leaving so here come vindictive behavior and no one word is said verbally, it is all in silence.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I wonder if Mrs. X will be back...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If not we have a good conversation going here and perhaps it will help others dealing with the same issue.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

That sucks. I can feel exactly what he is doing. And now I understand exactly the tension and gut churning going on in your own mind and body. 

Was he amicable with the separation agreement and divorce and asset division? Most likely more than amicable, with him playing the martyr. That's something else you will "owe" him for. And he will tell all his buddies how that "beotch" took him for a ride in the divorce. Even when he was probably the one that suggested certain divisions in the paper. 

I've never met the man. But I can feel sympathy for him. Truly. He's got some bad demons in his head he's struggling hard with, and he doesn't know how to deal with them. Don't let that sway you, though. Being Married to a far spectrum PA is nuts. 

I hope he decides to feel the proverbial 2 X 4 to the head and does some serious soul searching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Red Sonja said:


> Yes, it is and, the silent treatment is also a form of abuse. I was trying to point out, for the benefit of the OP, that the proper methods of responding to the silent treatment will not _always _work.
> 
> She should try the (correct) method that you described but be prepared just in case it results in an escalation of the abuse (as in my case).


Well, there's Abuse, and then there's abuse.

I mean I've done my share of needing a time out from an arguement and sulking in the basement shooting pool for an hour.

I'm sure that's abusive on some level, but there's also a need to cool down, and a need sometimes to do the "not be in the way of a punch" part of a fight.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

marduk said:


> Well, there's Abuse, and then there's abuse.
> 
> I mean I've done my share of needing a time out from an arguement and sulking in the basement shooting pool for an hour.
> 
> I'm sure that's abusive on some level, but there's also a need to cool down, and a need sometimes to do the "not be in the way of a punch" part of a fight.


Yes. Good post Marduk. It is definitely abuse, in my opinion. 

But your reaction is a healthy response of walking away and cooling off, so you can sort out your thoughts without anger and frustration clouding your words and reactions. So you can reengage with a clear mind. 

I, unfortunately, didn't know how to deal with the reengaging part. So I turned to avoidance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

alphaomega said:


> Well....
> 
> Introvert. You most definitely could. Unfortunately.
> 
> ...


No, I definitely could not. 

I don't jump into relationships headlong and I would never marry without some serious time in the relationship. I am so attuned to PA behavior (years of exposure, thanks mom!) that I recognize it when it rears its ugly head. 

X Mrs. Introvert and I were together for three years before we solidified our commitment to each other...by that time, we were well aware of the warts and annoying habits of each other.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

introvert said:


> No, I definitely could not.
> 
> I don't jump into relationships headlong and I would never marry without some serious time in the relationship. I am so attuned to PA behavior (years of exposure, thanks mom!) that I recognize it when it rears its ugly head.
> 
> X Mrs. Introvert and I were together for three years before we solidified our commitment to each other...by that time, we were well aware of the warts and annoying habits of each other.


Lol. Then I commend you. As you know, you don't want to be involved with the likes of me. We bad news. 

I wish we could bottle up your experience and sell it as a soda. "Don't go there" cola. Unfortunately, many don't have the wherewithal to figure out they're about to marry dumb azzes that go all 5 year old on them when they need to work shat out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

alphaomega said:


> Lol. Then I commend you. As you know, you don't want to be involved with the likes of me. We bad news.
> 
> I wish we could bottle up your experience and sell it as a soda. "Don't go there" cola. Unfortunately, many don't have the wherewithal to figure out they're about to marry dumb azzes that go all 5 year old on them when they need to work shat out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm pretty new to the forum and not very familiar with long time posters...I will do some reading back and find out more about you, LOL.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> That sucks. I can feel exactly what he is doing. And now I understand exactly the tension and gut churning going on in your own mind and body.
> 
> Was he amicable with the separation agreement and divorce and asset division? Most likely more than amicable, with him playing the martyr. That's something else you will "owe" him for. And he will tell all his buddies how that "beotch" took him for a ride in the divorce. Even when he was probably the one that suggested certain divisions in the paper.
> 
> ...


AlphaOmega, I am assuming you are talking to me? I have tried to leave before and husband would ask me if this was really what I wanted and I would tell me it was not, it still isn't, but this time I told him it was. He told me we could talk about it when he got home which we did and he seemed to agree that we can go no further. A year ago Jan I had told him what I wanted from the marriage, one was for him to get help. He did the same and told me he wanted me back in his bed as man and wife. He said he was done with counseling, would read no books. So his idea of resolving the issues was to hop back in bed with him but as we had talked in counseling with our last marriage counselor I mentioned that giving husband what he wanted would not change his addiction and it would not stop him seeking other women. He was incapable of showing me he cared and no amount of sex was going to make that different, I had already experienced....counselor agreed. So basically the marriage has been at a stand-still since that time. I have been unable to give to him what he wants because I know that he thinks that I should be able to accept his habits and we should be able to carry on as "normal." he told our marriage counselor that he thought this was typical male behavior and he told me that I just needed to accept him the way he is. 

So yes, it appeared amicable. I have no doubt he will tell his friends what an awful person I was to him and he will joke about the sex we didn't have. That is fine and I actually wish him the best. I know he is messed up. I feel sorry for any woman that meets him and thinks he is a gentleman like I did 27 years ago. He can be real sweet and nice when he is seeking but boy, he can flip the switch, and fast too!

I have been having problems with anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, problems with my health including funny feelings in my heart. Since decided I had to leave to save myself I have been seeing a counselor weekly and a natural doc who has helped me to find peace as she believes our emotions lead to health issues. What a difference....no more anxiety and no more funny heart stuff. I am not an over religious person but I do have faith and have been doing alot of praying for guidance. I really feel I am heading in the right direction. Doors are opening for me where I plan to move to and I am excited.

Last night my teen daughter and I were in ER, she had broke her toe. We got home rather late and husband had been drinking. I went about my business and I heard him refill his glass again and again and I was so thankful for my decision to get out. This man drinks himself into oblivion at times. I have learned to keep my distance as I know when he has had too much it is time to do my own thing and stay away as he gets aggressive and belligerent. I never want o deal with any of this stuff again. I hope I have learned my lessons as these have been very hard lessons to learn.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

marduk said:


> Well, there's Abuse, and then there's abuse.
> 
> I mean I've done my share of needing a time out from an arguement and sulking in the basement shooting pool for an hour.
> 
> I'm sure that's abusive on some level, but there's also a need to cool down, and a need sometimes to do the "not be in the way of a punch" part of a fight.


When you need time to cool down, think things thru, that is healthy but what I deal with from husband is not healthy. Not only does husband shut down and lie (if he says anything) but then I become the target of his revenge for saying anything or doing something that did not please him. If you ask about it, he will deny it making me think I am in loony land for thinking I can see what he is doing. Realty is he doing what I am seeing. There's a difference. I too have had to cool down but I then go back and talk the situation thru.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

AVR1962 said:


> When you need time to cool down, think things thru, that is healthy but what I deal with from husband is not healthy. Not only does husband shut down and lie (if he says anything) but then I become the target of his revenge for saying anything or doing something that did not please him. If you ask about it, he will deny it making me think I am in loony land for thinking I can see what he is doing. Realty is he doing what I am seeing. There's a difference. I too have had to cool down but I then go back and talk the situation thru.


Keep a journal and write it all down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

marduk said:


> Keep a journal and write it all down.


:iagree:

Yup, I kept a journal of my XH's behaviors for many years. It helped me understand what was happening and helped with the gas-lighting techniques he was using.


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