# We Lost Her, And Now We're Losing Eachother.



## AliceInWonderland (Jun 4, 2015)

Hi everyone, I'm new here. A friend referred me to this website and I'm looking forward to being here.
I read the forum rules.

Before I get into my story, I just want to say that I hope everyone is doing well.

My fiancé and I met at a coffee shop. I was putting sugar in my coffee, he bumped into me by accident and a friendship sparked. 
We always laugh about how we met. We were together for four years before he proposed.
He wanted a " perfect proposal " and waited until we traveled to one of my favorite places ever, Ireland. In front of the beautiful ocean. 
He made me dig up dirt to find the small box with a ribbon which held my ring. It was honestly beautiful, and mind-blowing. He caught it on camera, and we watch it often.

Our lives have been up and down. We have gone through some hardships. He lost his father due to a drunk driver. That was a difficult time, and that happened three years ago. We are saddened to have been forced to say good-bye to a lovely family member, but we dealt with it and find that the greatest tribute to the dead is gratitude, so everyday we remain grateful for his father, my father in law.

I found out I was pregnant. The pregnancy was wonderful. We were both so happy. We decorated our daughter's nursery. We bought her outfits, toys, diapers, and we were just filled with a tremendous amount of happiness.
She was born. And we were ecstatic. Our family had began. We always wanted three kids, and we had one. She was the perfect little girl. I breastfed her, we changed her diapers, and loved her tremendously.
Then, that day came. The day where I slept in until 7am, wondering why she didn't cry to eat for 7 hours. I went and checked on her, and saw what would be the most devastating image to see - my daughter had died in her sleep. 
We brought her to the hospital. There was no cause for her death, and they said she had died of SIDS. Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.

To our comfort, we kept her ashes. She stays in a beautiful box, beside our bed. I always talk to that box. I always tell her I love her. And how much I miss her and how sorry I am. I cannot help but cry everytime.

A few months after her passing, my fiancé attempted suicide. He was diagnosed with having depression, anxiety disorder and a minor case of bipolar disorder. 
His mother came over to help me care for him. He's a little better now, and is starting to see the light again with the help of myself and his family. 

Problem is, his depression and anxiety often causes some difficulties between us and life in general. He doesn't want me to work anymore because he doesn't want to be alone. I understand that, but we need an income. I also love my job. He tells me that I love my job more than him which isn't true at all.
He doesn't want me to talk to other people, because he's afraid that I'll leave him for a more positive, less depressed person. Which I wouldn't, because I understand his depression. We lost our daughter.
He is often verbally abusive at times, or what I find to be verbally abusive. He has called me stupid, and a ***** because I told him that I can't quit my job.
He has told me that I obviously didn't love my daughter as much as he did, otherwise I would quit my job and isolate. He has told me that I don't love her or miss her because I didn't try to attempt suicide and that my daughter must be very sad in Heaven to see that her own mother doesn't cry for her everyday.

Those have been difficult to swallow. I do love and miss my daughter more than anything. I ache for her everyday. I meditate everyday and think about nothing else, but her. I am grateful for her and the time that I did get everyday. I made myself a necklace with her initials that I wear everyday. I have saved all of her baby stuff because I am finding it very hard to let it go, and also, because I am thinking of saving it for our next baby.

Thing is, I'm just not going to try to attempt suicide. I'm not going to quit my job because we still need an income. We need to pay our rent, our bills and we need to buy food every month.
I'm not going to isolate at home in the dark. I need to be out and about. The way I " spend time with my daughter " is when I'm surrounded by trees and grass and nature in general. I love fresh air and I love being outside.

My fiance cannot stand my positive attitude. I look on the bright side of things, and I'm not a negative person. He can't stand it. He has said that he can't stand me, sometimes.

Now all he does is sit on the couch, play video games or watch movies and tv shows.
I don't complain about it because I understand his pain. I understand why he's being like this.
But it hurts when he accuses me of not loving or missing my daughter just because I don't mourn her the same way.

So now, we are losing each-other. And I'm trying to keep us together.

I need advice. I need input. I need people. 

Thank you for reading, everyone. Say a little prayer for my daughter.


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## Kitt (Jun 3, 2015)

I'm so sorry for your loss. Nothing could be more devastating. First of all, abuse for any reason is not ok. He doesn't get a free pass for that because of your daughter's passing. You need to remove yourself from that situation ASAP. Secondly, you are not in marriage to be anyone's whipping post. He needs to stop making demands and mentally abusing you or you need to leave. I know he is in pain, but the level of vitriolic behavior from him is unacceptable. You lost a child, he doesn't get to minimize that by trying to micromanage your time. He needs grief and anger counseling, and until he start fixing himself, you need to remove yourself from his abuse. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but abuse is never...ever....ok.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

First of all, I am so very sorry about the loss of your baby girl. I simply cannot imagine the pain. I think the first time every mother gets a full night sleep they go running into the baby's room thinking of your situation. I know I did. My heart breaks for you!

Everyone mourns differently. Everyone has a different set of resiliency skills. You and your husband are examples of opposing skill sets. His mental illness totally complicates his coping skills.

Maybe I missed it in your post, but how long ago did your baby pass and how long after that did your H attempt suicide? Was he hospitalized? If so for how long? Is he currently med compliant? If he isn't med compliant and isn't currently attending therapy, why not?

You know that your H's accusations about you being unfeeling toward this tragedy are completely unfounded. People do not have to prove their pain with suicide attempts!

So what can you do? Explain to your H that your pain is real, but just as important, your resiliency is well developed. There are those who fall apart when they break a nail and those who can smile after a tragedy. Resiliency is what keeps us alive and moving forward. Resiliency is why some people develop PTSD and others are unfazed. You have resiliency and your H does not. Does he wish to develop resiliency? If so, in therapy he can learn the skills.

You can't force him to learn these things. Your example of what resiliency looks like obviously makes him feel inadaquate, otherwise he wouldn't be putting you down and challenging you with absurd requests about quitting your job. Because he is sad and depressed and also faced with a wife with stronger resiliency skills than he has, he has checked out on your marriage. He insults you, ignores you, and refuses to take steps to make his life better.

Deborah Tanen wrote a bunch of book sabout communication styles and in one of them she discusses the tendency to egagerate what model of communication style feels right when confronted with someone whose communication style opposes yours. So if you speak softly and your talking with a loud talker, you get quieter and quieter to egagerate the importance of using an inside voice. Meanwhile the loud talker gets louder and louder to underscore the importance of being heard! I think what your H might be doing is along the lines of this egageration. You don't mourn the way he thinks you should, so he is digging in his heels to underscore to you what real mourning looks like.

Of course, it could also be that he simply doesn't care anymore. That his daughter's death following his father's death have completely tapped out his ability to cope and it may be years before he can start to get back on his feet.

At some point my dear, you're going to have to ask yourself if you can spent the rest of your life with a man who can't cope with all the heartache that life throws at you. While I can't imagine ANYTHING could be more painful than loosing a child, life does tend to test you on a regular basis and it seems your H is not going to be passing many of these tests.


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## AliceInWonderland (Jun 4, 2015)

Kitt said:


> I'm so sorry for your loss. Nothing could be more devastating. First of all, abuse for any reason is not ok. He doesn't get a free pass for that because of your daughter's passing. You need to remove yourself from that situation ASAP. Secondly, you are not in marriage to be anyone's whipping post. He needs to stop making demands and mentally abusing you or you need to leave. I know he is in pain, but the level of vitriolic behavior from him is unacceptable. You lost a child, he doesn't get to minimize that by trying to micromanage your time. He needs grief and anger counseling, and until he start fixing himself, you need to remove yourself from his abuse. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but abuse is never...ever....ok.


It may not be what I want to hear, but it might be what I need to hear. I just don't want to add another loss to his life. I understand his devastation but not how he deals with it. 
I forgot to mention that I am in counseling, but he is not. He rejected counseling because he doesn't believe anything is wrong, he's just grieving in his own way. That's what he says. So he refuses counseling which makes this more frustrating.


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## AliceInWonderland (Jun 4, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> First of all, I am so very sorry about the loss of your baby girl. I simply cannot imagine the pain. I think the first time every mother gets a full night sleep they go running into the baby's room thinking of your situation. I know I did. My heart breaks for you!
> 
> Everyone mourns differently. Everyone has a different set of resiliency skills. You and your husband are examples of opposing skill sets. His mental illness totally complicates his coping skills.
> 
> ...


My daughter died November 13th, two years ago and my fiancé attempted suicide on February 27th.
He rejected therapy because he didn't feel it was necessary. I found it difficult to believe when he told me that he just rejected it and they allowed him to reject it because he had attempted suicide. If I was a doctor, I would have demanded he get therapy otherwise he'd be staying in the hospital  Just kidding, kind of. His current medication is meds for depression and anxiety, and Seroquel to help him sleep.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

AliceInWonderland said:


> It may not be what I want to hear, but it might be what I need to hear. I just don't want to add another loss to his life. I understand his devastation but not how he deals with it.
> I forgot to mention that I am in counseling, but he is not. *He rejected counseling because he doesn't believe anything is wrong, he's just grieving in his own way. That's what he says. So he refuses counseling which makes this more frustrating.*


Well this puts a whole new spin on things!!!

So your H who made a suicide attempt and was diagnosed with bipolar isn't on mess and refuses therapy?

One and only one course of action: get out now while your still in one piece and relatively sane! 

He will never get better.
It will always be this way or worse.

You need to start making your list of attorneys, separate finances, find a new place to live...

I'm so sorry but there is just no way if he refuses help.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm so sorry you have gone through all of this.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

AliceInWonderland said:


> My daughter died November 13th, two years ago and my fiancé attempted suicide on February 27th.
> He rejected therapy because he didn't feel it was necessary. I found it difficult to believe when he told me that he just rejected it and they allowed him to reject it because he had attempted suicide. If I was a doctor, I would have demanded he get therapy otherwise he'd be staying in the hospital  Just kidding, kind of. His current medication is meds for depression and anxiety, and Seroquel to help him sleep.


A pox on doctors who prescribe psychotropics without requiring therapy!

Your H is lying through his teeth. Of course they heavily pushed therapy! But he is an adult and they can't force it.


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## AliceInWonderland (Jun 4, 2015)

Honestly I don't think I can stay with him for the rest of my life if it's going to be like this. It isn't good for my mental health or my physical health either. The mind affects the body, the body affects the mind. I am really adamant in continuing to be healthy emotionally, physically and spiritually. My daughter wouldn't want me any other way.
Everything I do, I do for her. 
What he says is absurd, disrespectful and rather heartless in a way. 
I really do understand his pain and it would hurt me to leave him but I can't sacrifice my health for someone who isn't ready to take control of their lives and get on a road to being healthier in all ways. I try to encourage him, motivate him, lift him up but I can't because he needs to help himself. He's refusing anything good. It's really sad to see him like that, but I won't be miserable. I had a miserable time after my daughter passed but I got back up. Not everyday is perfect. But I'm living my life remaining grateful for her. I believe I still connect with her, whether she is physically present on Earth or up in heaven. She's my little guardian angel.

Books on better communication is a good idea, and of course anything else anyone can recommend. I want to give it my all before ending this relationship preferably.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I also am so, so sorry for your loss. Truly unimaginable. So I give my thoughts knowing that they are formed by someone-me-who has nothing like your experience to draw on.

The loss of a child often drives couples apart for the exact reason you are describing--each grieves in her or his own way, and many cannot comprehend the way their partner is grieving. I've never read anything that described the different approaches so clearly as your post--and now I understand the phrase, "grieving in your own way" a lot better. 

None of us knows how we'd react until we are in a situation where we experience significant grief. You are 100% right to grieve in your way; he is 100% right to grieve in his way. But he is not "entitled" to judge how you grieve--that is, perhaps, a consequence of his grief, and something he cannot understand, but that does not mean you must bear it silently. It certainly would not be helpful to belittle his way of grieving--although it would be understandable if you did, b/c you are also in such pain and lashing out is not uncommon--but you do have a right to defend your way of grieving, and to stand up for yourself. It may even force him to look more closely at himself if/when he realizes that attacking you is simply avoiding some of his own pain, a misguided attempt to ease it a bit. 

I'm sure you know there is no one right answer. We are here to "listen," if that helps. Do what you need to do to grieve and honor your daughter, and I hope you find some comfort in the love of family and friends.


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## AliceInWonderland (Jun 4, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm so sorry you have gone through all of this.


Thank you dearly for your compassion FaithfulWife.


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## AliceInWonderland (Jun 4, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Well this puts a whole new spin on things!!!
> 
> So your H who made a suicide attempt and was diagnosed with bipolar isn't on mess and refuses therapy?
> 
> ...


I should start writing a list of things I will need to. Course of action I guess. Luckily we're not married yet, just engaged. I would let him have the apartment if I were to leave. I can easily find something else. He was fired from his job after his suicide attempt due to his lengthy hospital stay so his income isn't good, he has a savings account but if he uses all that to pay his rent, it will decrease slowly but surely. But I am realizing that I can't take care of him. He can't depend on me, it is unhealthy.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

If you feel you must give this marriage another shot, I recommend you risk it.

Tell him if he doesn't get into therapy on a weekly basis you will leave. Tell him you will not sit by and watch him slowly kill himself. Tell him his slow death is NO testament to his love for his daughter but instead is a testament to his own self centeredness! We all face pain, it's how we deal with pain that separates the good ones from the not so good ones. And if he takes that as an insult, let him. Sometimes you have to totally rip off the kidd gloves.

You're only chance at making this work is him getting into therapy. That's it. If he doesn't get into therapy, there isn't a damn thing you can do to help him because you're not a mental health professional!

You might want to stipulate that you attend one out of four of his sessions, so that you can report the truth of his compliance and his therapist isn't left with his BS version of events.


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## AliceInWonderland (Jun 4, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> If you feel you must give this marriage another shot, I recommend you risk it.
> 
> Tell him if he doesn't get into therapy on a weekly basis you will leave. Tell him you will not sit by and watch him slowly kill himself. Tell him his slow death is NO testament to his love for his daughter but instead is a testament to his own self centeredness! We all face pain, it's how we deal with pain that separates the good ones from the not so good ones. And if he takes that as an insult, let him. Sometimes you have to totally rip off the kidd gloves.
> 
> ...


Excellent idea. My therapist even told me that if ever he decides to get therapy, she can find him one very easily. He just needs to be willing.
I think I'll write a list of everything he needs to do shall this relationship remain intact. It's time to resort to an ultimatum. What should I write on the list? I'll make it clear that if he refuses to do any of them, we will need a separation. In fact, maybe I should start looking for places now. Luckily I have family nearby so if anything happened right away, I would have a place to go temporarily until I find a new place.
So suggestions on what I should write on the ultimatum list, and my course of action list. 
Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Our finances are separate, always have been.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think you should work with your therapist on that list of actions and the subsequent consequences if he fails to take those actions. I think you also need to be prepared with the likelihood he will make false starts. He will make some calls but there will be problems of varying degrees so he won't have any appointments to show for his efforts. Then he will have an appointment but something will happen, every time, that makes the sessions get rescheduled. Then he will complain about how rude and arrogant his therapist is and how he can't work with a person like that, he'll want to find a new therapist. The list of sabotaging events is endless. Which is why you will need to be generalized in your demands. Get into therapy and have at least 4 sessions every month. You can do that all in one week, or once a week, but 4 sessions every month.


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## AliceInWonderland (Jun 4, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> I think you should work with your therapist on that list of actions and the subsequent consequences if he fails to take those actions. I think you also need to be prepared with the likelihood he will make false starts. He will make some calls but there will be problems of varying degrees so he won't have any appointments to show for his efforts. Then he will have an appointment but something will happen, every time, that makes the sessions get rescheduled. Then he will complain about how rude and arrogant his therapist is and how he can't work with a person like that, he'll want to find a new therapist. The list of sabotaging events is endless. Which is why you will need to be generalized in your demands. Get into therapy and have at least 4 sessions every month. You can do that all in one week, or once a week, but 4 sessions every month.


My next therapy appointment is coming Wednesday actually right before I head off to work. I'll make sure to address this stuff with her and get a list written. Then I'll need to confront him. Here's to hoping he accepts. I don't want to end the relationship but if I have to, I have to.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

Very sorry for your loss. 
Please do take care of yourself. There is some very good advice on this thread. But the underlying thing is... Please take care of yourself. Am very sorry you are in this situation.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

> My daughter died November 13th, two years ago and my fiancé attempted suicide on February 27th.
> He rejected therapy because he didn't feel it was necessary. I found it difficult to believe when he told me that he just rejected it and they allowed him to reject it because he had attempted suicide. If I was a doctor, I would have demanded he get therapy otherwise he'd be staying in the hospital  Just kidding, kind of. His current medication is meds for depression and anxiety, and Seroquel to help him sleep.


I am very sorry for your double loss...

He ofcourse needs therapy, and I would say you two need to go into couples mourning therapy. If you would stay together this is mandatory imho.

Y*ou can give him the ultimatum: Therapy to process the death of your child or separating.*

Talking from experience here.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I posted the response below in your other thread, but I think it is best placed here so here goes (and sorry for the duplication)...



AIW I understand why you are fed up and fully understand and respect your point of view. I believe that you are doing the right thing for yourself in leaving. 

However ....

I, for one, (probably much like your fiancé), grieve intensely for the loss of people that I love! When my mother passed away (I was 29 years old), I was dysfunctional for nearly 6 months! No-one in my family understood it including my siblings! I could not go back to work, I made enemies of the world and the church, I could not believe that everyone involved did not feel the same intense pain and sense of loss! Unreasonable ? Absolutely ! But it is understandable for me.

Now (and I cannot even bear to think of the thought), had I lost a child, who knows how I might have reacted. Depression, anger and inability to go to work would have just been the tip of the iceberg! I probably would have ended up locked up in jail or an institution. Not healthy you say - I know. But again understandable for me.

So I really do empathise and feel sorry for your fiancé as I think I have a slight glimmer of what he is going through. Everyone has already told me that I needed help, counselling, what ever, for the way I acted when my mother passed away. 

At a younger age, I lost my father and the reaction was the same - stayed out of university for four months in my final year (how I managed to pull it together after that I'll never know).


So just saying, that while all will condemn him for his bad behaviour I actually do kind of understand what he is going through. However, I am not him so I don't know how long it will be before he comes out of this (or if he ever will).

FYI my wife was my gf at the time of my father's death and my wife at the time of my mothers death. I was horrible to her both times and she stuck by me no matter what. But that was because she grieves in a very similar way to me (some might call us bat sh!t crazy when we grieve) and I had to go through the same thing with her when she lost her cousin, father (very hard for her) and finally, her mother!

So while we were not brilliantly matched on other fronts and had to work at it to make the marriage work, we were very much in tune with each others behaviour during grieving.

Not sure if this helps you but it is another viewpoint, I guess.

My heartfelt condolences and best wishes go out to you and I really hope the both of you find happiness soon.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Close down this nonsense


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i think an ultimatum is the right path.

my wife suffers major depressive disorder, and ultimatums(i call them consequences) were what worked when talking failed. the vitriol your fiance spews doesnt come from the pain of losing his daughter... its a byproduct. it comes from the pain of seeing what he has turned into. he feels completely helpless to change that.

now, this might seem cold and manipulative, but its probably the only thing that will motivate him: fear of being alone. he is afraid of losing you. so, he will do things that he really doesnt feel like doing, if the fear of losing you is greater than the fear of facing the world and himself. if you really want to help him, your going to have to do it with tough love. he CAN get through this and return to being his old self again. he just doesnt realize it. 

i really cant fathom what your going through. we have lost a few unborn children, but never one we held in our arms...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The OP is a troll.. aka Flowerchild and Aang.

I'm closing this thread so that no one else spends their time here.


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