# Considering divorce, need advice.



## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Hi. I am married with 3 young children. My wife and I are in our mid 30's, and have been together for over 10 years, (Married for 6). 

When we first met, it was an amazing relationship. We always did stuff together. Now, with 3 kids, all in athletics, things just aren't the same. We almost separated a few years ago, but we were able to reconcile our differences, and stayed together. 

We met when we both worked in a factory, and she also worked as a waitress. We had both just ended a previous relationship not soon before meeting each other. About 4 months after we started dating, she chose another career, and left the factory, to work in a bank, but stayed with the restaurant part time. I have always been supportive in her career choices, as she advanced throughout her job at the bank.

Earlier this year, I had applied for another job, and had gotten an interview. Excited about finally being able to get out of the factory life, I met my wife for lunch, and told her about the interview. He reaction was not what I had expected. She was angry that I had not talked to her about it. 

Now, working afternoons most of my time in the factory, I could understand her frustration, as I would be on afternoons for the first few years, until I was able to get a posting for a days position. I asked her why she was so mad about it, and she told me that I'd still be on afternoons, and not spending time with her and the kids, as my kids are in school during the day, full time. She also said I had to think about our family. 

I WAS thinking about the family. This new job brought with it a pension, as well as full benefits. My wife, was the ONLY person who was unsupportive about me switching jobs. All of my friends and family, even co-workers, told me I was stupid if I didn't take it, so I took the job. 

I started the end of May, and throughout the summer, I worked 4-10 hour day shifts during the week. 3 day weekends. No more mandated weekends.

Ever since, things have gone down hill. I've lost interest in my marriage. I have lost my sexual drive. We never get to spend time together, because the kids have sports on the weekends, and she works shifts at the restaurant because money has been a bit tight. We had a big fight about a month ago, in regards to my change in mood, and lack of sexual interest. I had explained that I was hurt that she wasn't supportive about the job, and we were able to talk about things. 

We have had sex since then, a couple of times, but I feel as though I am no longer in love with her. I care about her deeply, as she is an amazing mother to our children, but I just don't have those feeling anymore. I am terrified about talking to her about separation or divorce, as I don't want to tear apart our family. I love my in laws deeply, as they have taken me into their family as one of their own, and I don't want to lose that either, but as for my marriage, I am just not in anymore.

I need some help on what to do, or how to approach this, because I am at a crossroads.

Sorry this was a long header to this topic, but I just wanted to give an understanding on where I was coming from.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TW,

This is a remarkably honest and helpful first post. 

I'll respond more fully tomorrow, but for now I want to share an observation based on 25 years of marriage. 

Sometimes - we fall out of love with our partners for a while. It is very painful. That said, if they are truly good people, the right move is to be patient. And to try to slowly work back towards the light. 

So far you haven't said anything that makes me pessimistic about you doing that. 

Sorry this is happening. I've been there. It's painful. I've also come out the other side. It's joyous. 




TWDead said:


> Hi. I am married with 3 young children. My wife and I are in our mid 30's, and have been together for over 10 years, (Married for 6).
> 
> When we first met, it was an amazing relationship. We always did stuff together. Now, with 3 kids, all in athletics, things just aren't the same. We almost separated a few years ago, but we were able to reconcile our differences, and stayed together.
> 
> ...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You've got three kids. You have had 10 years experience with your wife and she is someone you apparently have great respect for. The only thing that is missing seems to be some sort of emotional thrill that has waned a bit. So, get it back and problem solved. You can mentally talk yourself into or out of love, depending on what you wish to focus on. Your sex drive is lagging? Have regular sex with your wife, anyway. In what other area of your life are you dragged around by your emotions? You don't go out much anymore? Take your wife out! You aren't in some rudderless ship that just takes you wherever. You are in the pilot's house. If you want to go to divorceland, that's where you'll go. Understand that if you do, your kids will suffer. If your house were on fire you'd probably risk your own life without even thinking to save your kids. They are in danger right now. A divorce will harm them financially, socially, probably academically. 
You're just breaking into a new job. Your feelings might be related to that stress and have nothing to do with your wife. You might get your testosterone levels checked. There's always a possibility you could be going through some depression. This whole business might be solved with a little chemical adjustment. It'd be a shame to walk away from three kids and a perfectly acceptable, decent woman. You'd probably find another but she might turn out to be a real psycho or a meth cooking, card swiping, bat from hell. At least you know you can live with the one you have.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

It is normal to feel like this in your 30s with all the responsibilities of having kids and no time to emotionally connect. However, as anyone who is married for a long time will tell you, love is not a feeling it is a verb requiring action. Marriage is a commitment. 
There are times when we don't feel kindly or loving towards our spouse, or the romantic feelings have waned. We may decide to divorce but what was missing will be missing in the next relationship after the thrill has worn off and real life sets in. You love this woman, respect her, the problem seems to merely be lack of time together to rekindle the romance.
You must plan time together, even if it is only one night a week for a nice dinner date. Many young men are so busy earning for the family, they think everything else will take care of itself but it requires work too.

Going to marriage counselling may help to get you on the right track. You can do this and frankly it may be one of the most important things you will give your family, so lead the way.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I find it problematic how the word "love" is used and/or misused. What is love? This question has almost as many answers as there are individuals on the planet because it is a dynamic concept. It is not simple like "what color is red?" because when you adk that question practically everyone what red looks like but love however, not nearly as universal in its perceived meaning.

What you are experiencing has been experienced by almost every married individual, at one time or another, throughout their marriage, myself included. It does not mean you have fallen out of "love" but rather that you have fallen into "a rut" wherein life becomes dull, mundain and lackluster. Marriage is very much like keeping a fire with sometimes damp wood, which means at times it requires more effort to keep it burning.

Sometimes your wife may be throwing damp wood on the fire, as when she discouraged your taking of the new job. Sometimes you might cast a damp log on the coals as when you did not discuss with her your considering taking the new job. The key to keeping the wood dry is communication. The better the dialog between spouses, the hotter the fire. If you can understand this process the better you can weather the storms of life and the ebb and flow of marriage. We learn as we go but I can assure you that any relationship you enter into will suffer this same fate if sufficient effort is not expended to keep the wood dry.

So, for the sake of your investment and your children is it not prudent to fan the flames of the fire you already have? It may be alluring to think of building a new fire but in reality it will still require effort to sustain. No relationship is effortless. I wish you good fortune and dry wood.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Thanks for the advice. As for counselling, we've tried that before. I, myself, found it was waste of money. Constantly asked, "well... What do you think?" 

That was one of our main issues last time, the fact that we didn't have time for each other. And once we figured that out, we were fine. Things became a lot better, and sex was amazing again. 

She plays ball hockey once a week, or floor hockey, depending on the time of year. I totally stopped drinking and enjoying myself, because I feel if we go somewhere with the kids, say, a family function, I like to stay responsible. If I was to get drunk, she feels that I should be up early in the morning. No reason to sleep in. 

With this new job, once the school year starts, hours are slow, because people are not taking holidays, and, since I'm only a casual, I go where I'm needed. I can get a claim going, with my employment insurance, but I have to put in a waiting period. She sees it as me sitting around doing nothing, when in a fact, I'm constantly doing things around the house. She feels that I should go and get a part time job. That's all and well, but once my claim starts, if there is a day I don't get hours, I'm covered. Getting a part time job effects that. And I'm starting to get a full 40 hours a week now. 

Another issue I have, is, it seems like she gets mad, if she thinks I'm "sitting around". Example. Our son had a hockey practice coming up in a few hours. He had gone outside to play with his friends. The other two, were at my inlaws. My wife decided she was going to take a nap. I had emptied the dishwasher, and filled it with the dirty dishes, as well as hung the laundry. I decided to sit down for bit, and relax and play some Xbox. Something I used to enjoy, but haven't done in months. About 10 minutes in, she wakes up, and comes downstairs. Sees me playing, and gets mad. When I confront her about, she asks if I thought that other grown men my age were sitting around doing the same thing, and that maybe I should be going around finding some work to do around the house. 

I know it may sound like I'm pointing out her faults, as I'm pretty sure, I have a few myself. But, I'm at a point, where, it feels like she's always finding another chore for me to do. I used to be slack with her. If asked me to do something, I was always, "yes dear." now when she starts trying to find stuff for me to do, I just tell her I'll do it when I get around to it. Or sometimes, simply, if you want it done so badly, do it yourself.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Sorry for my punctuation. I'm replying using my phone.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

TWDead said:


> Thanks for the advice. As for counselling, we've tried that before. I, myself, found it was waste of money. Constantly asked, "well... What do you think?"
> 
> That was one of our main issues last time, the fact that we didn't have time for each other. And once we figured that out, we were fine. Things became a lot better, and sex was amazing again.
> 
> ...


When my husband used to offer to do the laundry or load the dishwasher and run it, I didn't hover over him to make sure he did it the way I wanted him to. I was happy to have his help and happy to have him do the chores any way he wanted. 

So what I'm hearing is that your wife works two jobs to help with the family finances, and your job has some flexibility in it, so that when you're waiting for claims, you have time to do other things, including play. I would be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that your wife is exhausted and tired and resents your free time, but hasn't found a helpful way to talk to you about it. My mother used to have a full time job and then come home to help with my stepfather's farm, and take care of him, and there were times he was mean. He'd be sitting in front of the TV and demand that she, in the middle of doing something already, make him a sandwich. He was, as my nephew would say, a "grown ass man," and able to make his own sandwich.

It sounds to me like you're the kind of guy who makes his own damn sandwich. So have you shared THIS example with the marriage counselor? Wouldn't an example like this be a springboard to help the counselor get down to the bottom of what's irritating your wife? 

So beyond the absence of quality time together, and the absence of regular sex and bonding, are you feeling that you are not respected and appreciated? That's something that needs to be addressed for the marriage to survive. And what is your love language? Is it service? Seems to me as if it might be, with all the household chores you're willing to do. What's your wife's love language? She clearly doesn't see that yours might be service, she doesn't see the things you're doing and your motivation behind them. 

Does it bother you that your wife continues to work at the restaurant? Did you change jobs not only with the reasonable and appropriate hope for benefits and pension, but in the hopes she would be able to work less?


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> When my husband used to offer to do the laundry or load the dishwasher and run it, I didn't hover over him to make sure he did it the way I wanted him to. I was happy to have his help and happy to have him do the chores any way he wanted.
> 
> So what I'm hearing is that your wife works two jobs to help with the family finances, and your job has some flexibility in it, so that when you're waiting for claims, you have time to do other things, including play. I would be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that your wife is exhausted and tired and resents your free time, but hasn't found a helpful way to talk to you about it. My mother used to have a full time job and then come home to help with my stepfather's farm, and take care of him, and there were times he was mean. He'd be sitting in front of the TV and demand that she, in the middle of doing something already, make him a sandwich. He was, as my nephew would say, a "grown ass man," and able to make his own sandwich.
> 
> ...


At my other job, I worked 40+ hours every week. I worked from 5:25pm until 2am. By the time I got home and relaxed, it was 4 am, and I had to be up at 7 to get them ready for school. 

I had asked her to quit the waitressing, because at the time, we didn't need it. She cut her hours down, but picked up some shifts to help with finances. Also, the bed position she took, is 45 minutes out of town, filling in for someone on maternity leave. 

I don't mind doing work around the house. I love yard work, so that's where I contributed the most. She's always been the go, go, go type of person. She'll walk around the house finding stuff to do, and then complain that she never has to me to relax.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Further more, I used to go out all the time with friends, and Co workers, but over the years, I've become a stay at home husband. I've gotten to a point where I font even enjoy a few drinks, or to even indulge, because she'll have me up at the crack of dawn.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

TWDead said:


> Further more, I used to go out all the time with friends, and Co workers, but over the years, I've become a stay at home husband. I've gotten to a point where I font even enjoy a few drinks, or to even indulge, because she'll have me up at the crack of dawn.


Are you feeling a little controlled, as though the structure of your life feels like strictures?


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> Are you feeling a little controlled, as though the structure of your life feels like strictures?


Sometimes, yes. I guess you could put it that way. I don't feel married. Well, I do, but it's not the way I had thought a marriage would be or feel like. If we didn't have kids, I probably would have walked away the first time we almost split. The main reason I stayed, was, because my oldest boy was 7, and him and I were driving, and out of the blue, he says, "I don't want you and mommy to break up." that killed me. I pulled over and started crying.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Okay, something remains broken from the earlier split, it seems to me. If you have regrets from not leaving before, there's a great possibility of residual issues. You guys may have a lot of work to do, and she may not be willing to do it. And the expectation of what a marriage "would be or feel like" is huge. I agree with the posters who say that marriages go through periods where the people in it aren't wildly in love anymore, but we're getting somewhere now if you would have left the first time had you not had the kiddos. 

Can you get into individual counseling for yourself? You could find ways to get at YOUR issues and have strategies to address them with your wife.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> Okay, something remains broken from the earlier split, it seems to me. If you have regrets from not leaving before, there's a great possibility of residual issues. You guys may have a lot of work to do, and she may not be willing to do it. And the expectation of what a marriage "would be or feel like" is huge. I agree with the posters who say that marriages go through periods where the people in it aren't wildly in love anymore, but we're getting somewhere now if you would have left the first time had you not had the kiddos.
> 
> Can you get into individual counseling for yourself? You could find ways to get at YOUR issues and have strategies to address them with your wife.


If I could afford the counselling, I would be. It's kind of the reason I came here lol.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Some people argue that being here is better than counseling, and I think there's some truth to that! Okay, so sorry. 

I'm not a licensed counselor but I counsel students a LOT in my job, and have learned a lot from counseling myself. But there are lots of people who learned to give wise advice and counsel just by surviving the hard knocks of life! I'm sure you'll find help here. 

So what were some of the issues that were not resolved from the previous split? The ones you've described here already? Or was there something else at play? Is it just possible that you guys are/were overwhelmed by having the kids and trying to make ends meet? I know lots of people who have kids and work a lot and I don't see how they do it; it has to be exhausting. I don't have kids, just grown step-kids. My own siblings work and so do their spouses, and my sister and BIL raised outstanding kids and held it together, but financially they were comfortable. My brother went through a divorce when his spouse hit a midlife crisis and cheated, and their kids are at sea and lost, but that is because they didn't co-parent well together. My brother has had a do-over and married a much younger woman and has two small sons now. My brother and SIL work, but he owns his own business and lives in a small town, so getting the kids to baseball after school is a five-minute drive. I can't imagine how people do it in urban sprawl and live to tell about it.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Overwhelmed with kids in sports, is a big issue. With two boys, both in hockey, our weekends are spent traveling to arenas, either in or out of town. Don't get me wrong, I love nothing more then watching my kids play, but, say at a tournament, the parents like to get together in the hotels, and drink and socialize. Me, not being a big drinker, I mostly like to stay in the room and read, or watch a show. Most of these people all know each other, and have grownup together,so it's like they have their own little click, so I feel like the 5th wheel.

My wife and I used to go out to parties all the time, before we had kids, and even shortly after. I never liked hanging out with people I didn't know, but I always made an effort. Even though I was always the one that didn't really talk to anyone, or had nothing in common. I just finally got to a point, where I just stopped going. We have friends that we both know, and her family is friends with, and they have get together, but I don't even enjoy going to them anymore, because everyone is drinking. I guess I have become numb to that part of my life.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

So you guys don't have mutual friends, couples, groups, and the toll of the kids' hockey is big. I remember that; my h's boys were in hockey too and they would travel great distances to play. 

So it sounds like you and your wife have lost the things you share in common other than the kids' activities. My mother always worried that when my niece and nephew grew up and left the house, my sister and BIL would look at each other and realize they were strangers. It hasn't happened, since my sister took on the care of my mother during the last year with Mom's cancer and recent death and my BIL was very supportive. But my sister HAS made noise on occasion about divorce, and I hope it doesn't happen, because he's a really good guy, and he would be happy for her to do anything she wanted, like travel or quit her job or go into volunteer work (which she does anyway, on top of her job). 

It seems that you guys have moved into a mode where she has the power to withhold approval and you do all you can to get it from her. Partners needs mutual respect and appreciation from each other. I have seen comfort levels cross over into two people barking and sniping at each other until the love is gone. 

There was a poster here once named Mavash, who said that in her marriage, each little resentment was allowed to build up and was not addressed, build up one brick at a time until a wall was erected. Do you think that is the case here possibly (I realize I'm possibly stating the obvious, but thinking about it brick by brick and visualizing that way helps to find the ways to tear it down, hopefully).


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

I was talking with an old friend of mine about my marriage. Just to get some advice, because she had a child with an old high school friend of ours. They were engaged to get married and he left her. I talked to her for some advice, and she told me that it sounds like I am looking for a reason to divorce my wife. To me, I feel like I am searching for that one big argument, where tempers are boiled, and it would just slip out, and I would say that I think we should take some time apart, to see if there is still a marriage there. 

But, as she said, that sounds like it would be the easiest way to handle it, for me, because I'm to afraid to confront my wife, and say I'm unhappy and need a change. She also told me that there is no "right time" to confront my wife. 

So, to answer your question, yes, I guess I am building that wall, piece by piece, until it all comes crumbling down.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

TW, I'm reading through a long thread now, catching up on one by a person who got here in July (I just arrived in September, after 7 years of dealing with a MLC spouse who was in an affair, attempted reconciliation with me, and then returned to the affair partner recently), and here's something someone (turnera) posted on that thread:

The key to a successful relationship is maintaining a sometimes delicate balance between self-compassion and compassion for loved ones.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...onally-abusive

And personally, I would add: COMMUNICATION. Safe, honest, non-blaming communication. Every week. Set up a 'state of the marriage' meeting for 15-20 minutes every week where you promise to talk to each other in a nonp-blaming way about what went good and what went bad this past week. That's how you fix the resentment stuff mentioned above. Remove the resentment, improve the communication, and you'll be happier with each other and more willing to DO for each other.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

I appreciate all the help and guidance you are giving me. But what if I don't want to fix this. I love my family, and her family, but deep down, I no longer want to be married. I don't know if it's a faze I'm going through. A middle age thing. I don't know.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Well then just be honest and tell her and do it gently. I have to tell you, I would have an easier time forgiving my husband and contemplating being his friend down the road if he had just been honest. He DIDN'T give me any warning he was unhappy or discontent. He didn't tell me anything. But he blurted out one time, I'm going to get me a new girlfriend, but by then he already was shopping dating profiles and had subscription to porn sites. 

I wish he had just said, hon, this isn't working for me anymore, I want to be single. I hate to do it to you but in my opinion we haven't been working for a long time and I want a fresh start. 

Just do it. Don't cheat, don't try to hurt your wife by cheating (it is a very passive-aggressive way of saying I'm pissed and because you're the one I CAN hurt because I hate my life, I'm going to). 

Just be honest, transparent, authentic, real. Just do it. Don't try to goad her into doing it for you, like my prick STBXH has been doing for the last six months. 

Make a decision, own it, and be prepared to live with the consequences. If it is really what you want, be a man, handle it like a man, and just do it.

ETA: People fall out of love. It is a measure of your character and a measure of your appreciation of the fact that you have kids together to be as humane as possible. And you may even find out that your wife is relieved because she wants divorce too.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Of course, I will point out that you likely won't suddenly have a lot more time for dating when you are possibly working to cover two households and child support and splitting custody. So if the idea is you go single and regain single life, that only really happens if you plan on leaving the kids behind too.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> Well then just be honest and tell her and do it gently. I have to tell you, I would have an easier time forgiving my husband and contemplating being his friend down the road if he had just been honest. He DIDN'T give me any warning he was unhappy or discontent. He didn't tell me anything. But he blurted out one time, I'm going to get me a new girlfriend, but by then he already was shopping dating profiles and had subscription to porn sites.
> 
> I wish he had just said, hon, this isn't working for me anymore, I want to be single. I hate to do it to you but in my opinion we haven't been working for a long time and I want a fresh start.
> 
> ...


Can't get more straight forward then that! Thank you. I guess I'm going to have to man up, grow my balls back and be, well, honest!


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Starstarfish said:


> Of course, I will point out that you likely won't suddenly have a lot more time for dating when you are possibly working to cover two households and child support and splitting custody. So if the idea is you go single and regain single life, that only really happens if you plan on leaving the kids behind too.


For me, it's not to be single and start dating. When I met my wife, I had only been out of a 3 year relationship for a month. I need to to refresh and reset. If it takes years, then so be it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TW,

This level of clarity in explaining your situation - is really helpful. 

Do you believe that your wife thinks you are not hard working?
Do you believe you ARE hard working?

Work = job/money + work around the home

Who is the primary bread winner in the family? If it is your wife, does she make a little more, double what you do? 







TWDead said:


> Thanks for the advice. As for counselling, we've tried that before. I, myself, found it was waste of money. Constantly asked, "well... What do you think?"
> 
> That was one of our main issues last time, the fact that we didn't have time for each other. And once we figured that out, we were fine. Things became a lot better, and sex was amazing again.
> 
> ...


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> TW,
> 
> This level of clarity in explaining your situation - is really helpful.
> 
> ...


I was the bread winner, when I was at my old job. The new one, I'm only making 0.20¢ less then what I was. With all the overtime, I was clearing $40,000+/year. Plus full benifits. 

Maybe I should have talked it over more with my wife, before leaving, but I was at that job for 13 years, and it finally took its toll on me. I was about to go out on stress leave, because of the lack of sleep and lack of time with my family. All my old coworkers are happy for me getting out of there. The money was good, but it's hell. 

It's really hard, lately, as well, being Thanksgiving. We had our nephews baptism on Saturday, dinner at my folks today, and then my mother in laws birthday, and dinner Monday, at the inlaws. I have three brothers, (two of then are my step brothers), but we've grown up together since we were kids. But we never had that family oriented household. My stepfather was very verbally abusive towards me. My brother doesn't visit anymore because he can't deal with his degradation towards him. My stepfather has had a mild stroke this past year, and he has totally changed, but can still be rude towards people. 

My inlaws are very caring. Supportive and helpful. I see them more then my own family. That's what's the hardest part, is losing them, as well. 

I guess there's more issues at hand, but it's hard when there's no one I can really talk to about stuff.


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## asdfjkl (Sep 26, 2015)

I understand your position and I know what you are going through.
I had some nagging doubts for a few years but shoved them away without thinking too much about it. 
Then, sometime in Spring, it became too much and after a bit more than a month I wrote a letter to my wife stating why I feel unhappy and that I believe the problem was - mostly behavioural changes of my wife. 
Things improved but ove the next weeks I analyzed my situation more and more and came to the conclusion that yes, my wife had chaged (She even insisted that I was mean writing the letter but right on the facts). BUT: the values I have are basically incompatible with hers. This has been a long process to understand/admit and is still ongoing. 
The feeling of not being in love any more is a very alarming sign that something is wrong.

Try to analyze what your feelings are and don't haste anything. One good exercise is to ask yourself "why" for any answer you give yourself to the previous why. If there is no more "why" left, than you know that you are at the root cause.

This could be in your case a lack of appreciation, just too much stress combined from work and family, or a much deeper underlying root cause which I cannot guess but which you may feel exists.

Once you are sure what it is, define your options, explore their implications and then choose the course of action you think is best for you. Because I believe in the end, for your life, only your feeligs matter (but this also includes "Can I live with what I do/did to others?")

Regards

asdfjkl


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

asdfjkl said:


> I understand your position and I know what you are going through.
> I had some nagging doubts for a few years but shoved them away without thinking too much about it.
> Then, sometime in Spring, it became too much and after a bit more than a month I wrote a letter to my wife stating why I feel unhappy and that I believe the problem was - mostly behavioural changes of my wife.
> Things improved but ove the next weeks I analyzed my situation more and more and came to the conclusion that yes, my wife had chaged (She even insisted that I was mean writing the letter but right on the facts). BUT: the values I have are basically incompatible with hers. This has been a long process to understand/admit and is still ongoing.
> ...


Yeah, my thing is, can I live with the consequences? I'm not looking for separation/divorce so I can be single and play the field again, that's not my intention. For me, I feel I need to be alone. Not from my kids, just alone. Not married. I feel like she is constantly asking me to do a chore around the house. When she calls from work, there's always a catch. Always something I have to do. I've gotten to the point, that when she asks, I just go, "yup". And move along. 

My next question is, does it get easier? We've always agreed that if we separated for any reason, we wouldn't fight, because of the kids. But, separation and divorce take its toll on the kids. My kids are all I really have if I get a divorce. I'd be losing the family. Her family as well. It would just be me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TW,
Do you feel like she is just 'using' you? 

By the way, that's a BIG thing. That feels bad. For some folks, that feels worse than almost anything. 






TWDead said:


> I was the bread winner, when I was at my old job. The new one, I'm only making 0.20¢ less then what I was. With all the overtime, I was clearing $40,000+/year. Plus full benifits.
> 
> Maybe I should have talked it over more with my wife, before leaving, but I was at that job for 13 years, and it finally took its toll on me. I was about to go out on stress leave, because of the lack of sleep and lack of time with my family. All my old coworkers are happy for me getting out of there. The money was good, but it's hell.
> 
> ...


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

In my town (not a big city, about 85,000 people), there is a local income based health care group that is sponsored by local charities that offers very inexpensive and/or free counseling services. I bet you have something similar in your area as well, and would very much advise that you look into it.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

No, I know she's not using me. She isn't that type of person. I feel like, if I'm not working, or if I can't laid off, I should be out looking for other employment. During the recession, I was laid off, and collecting ei for a few months. The restaurant she works for was looking for a delivery driver, so she offered my services. I only did it for a few months, then I got called back to work and was working lits of overtime. The following year, around the festive time, she told them I would do it again. That there was no reason I can't have a second job. So, my weekends were spent delivering food. The year after that, she tried to do it again, and I finally said no! 

With the new job, I wasn't getting the hours at the start of September, because it's always a slow period. I was getting my ei going, and told her it takes a bit to start collecting money. She gets mad at me, like it's my fault I'm not getting the hours. I've always been a hard worker. In the 13 years at the factory, I never missed time, even when I was sick.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

People do throw out counciling and it is terrible advice: it doesn't work, and is a waste of money. 

I would suggest working your way through a book by John Gottman, which has actual sound advice. 

Something else that is good is the power of two website (which is based on Gottman ' s research). 

The next thing that I noticed is how little time you spend together. I know that the research says at least 10 hours of spending time together. 

You don't have time? 

Not to be rude, but your relationship is a priority over sports and money to a degree because without your marriage the others will take a huge hit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...03/marriage-problems-heres-8-step-rescue-plan

I hope that this article helps you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Thanks for the link. I will look into that.

When we last had a falling out, a few years ago, A lot of it had to do with hockey. Both of my boys were on House league hockey. Plus, one was on rep, and the other was on RS. We were always having 2 practices as well as 2 games on Saturday and Sunday. Most of the time, I was the one taking them to hockey, as well as looking after my daughter, because my wife was working the restaurant. This year, we have one in rep, and the other in House/RS.

She still works Sunday evenings at the restaurant, but has also been picking up Saturdays. I know it's to help us financially, but during the weekdays, I see her for a couple of minutes in the morning, and then on the weekends, we are so busy.

I've been pacing and thinking on how I am going to approach her, and tell her that we need to take a break.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TW,
I am going to ask one more question, I would be grateful if you answered it honestly.

When you criticize your wife, does she:
1. Listen, understand and then apologize and try to improve
2. Argue, tell you that you are wrong and ignore the feedback
3. Get very angry and tell you that you are wrong and also tell you that you are the one who has a lot of flaws

Answer that question honestly and I will make some low key suggestions that might help you. 



QUOTE=TWDead;13860890]No, I know she's not using me. She isn't that type of person. I feel like, if I'm not working, or if I can't laid off, I should be out looking for other employment. During the recession, I was laid off, and collecting ei for a few months. The restaurant she works for was looking for a delivery driver, so she offered my services. I only did it for a few months, then I got called back to work and was working lits of overtime. The following year, around the festive time, she told them I would do it again. That there was no reason I can't have a second job. So, my weekends were spent delivering food. The year after that, she tried to do it again, and I finally said no! 

With the new job, I wasn't getting the hours at the start of September, because it's always a slow period. I was getting my ei going, and told her it takes a bit to start collecting money. She gets mad at me, like it's my fault I'm not getting the hours. I've always been a hard worker. In the 13 years at the factory, I never missed time, even when I was sick.[/QUOTE]


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

How about #4. If I criticize my wife about something, she always comes back with something I've done wrong, that has to do with either the issue at hand, or something else. It's almost like it's a competition.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I would urge you to work though your issues, perhaps she has some concerns. You have three children and perhaps some good counseling can help. You say you fell out of love but would you want to support two families and see your children on weekends.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Bobby5000 said:


> I would urge you to work though your issues, perhaps she has some concerns. You have three children and perhaps some good counseling can help. You say you fell out of love but would you want to support two families and see your children on weekends.


As it stands right now, with working afternoons, I only see my kids on weekends.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Didn't you switch jobs to get a different shift?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TW,

And THAT type answer is sort of what I expected. 

Here's why. 

She signed you up for a second job without even talking to you. But you are so past the point of talking to her, that you don't even recognize this as a problem. You don't want to talk to her, because if you complain about what she is doing, her response is: well it's your fault because.....





TWDead said:


> How about #4. If I criticize my wife about something, she always comes back with something I've done wrong, that has to do with either the issue at hand, or something else. It's almost like it's a competition.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Starstarfish said:


> Didn't you switch jobs to get a different shift?


I did, yes, but I'm low seniority, so, I just keep posting for day position until I get one. I have a better chance of getting days on this job, then at the other. At least with this job, I see daylight. My other job, there's no windows, so if I wanted to see daylight, I would have to wait until break. That has a major effects on your body and mind over the years.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

TW you are welcome. Your problems remind me of my problems with my husband. We deeply love eachother, but their is a lot of pressure. By the time we have time to spend together, we are just zombies. 

We have been taking advantage of the cheap parents night out at churches ect. around here and it has helped a lot to refocus on eachother. We also use the YMCA daycare on Saturday and have a bike race. 

We really struggle to get that 10 hours per week to focus on eachother. One thing we have done is children go to their rooms at 8 so we can at least have snuggling and TV wind down ect. If we have more energy, we can play cards. 

We just tell our kids we love you, but we need time alone together. 

It sounds like you both get in a pattern of hurting eachother and getting defensive, which you need to work on to break (power of two has a free trial I would ask your wife to set aside time with you so you can get all yiu can out of it.) 

Please update, when you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

lurky.lou said:


> TW you are welcome. Your problems remind me of my problems with my husband. We deeply love eachother, but their is a lot of pressure. By the time we have time to spend together, we are just zombies.
> 
> We have been taking advantage of the cheap parents night out at churches ect. around here and it has helped a lot to refocus on eachother. We also use the YMCA daycare on Saturday and have a bike race.
> 
> ...


Thank you. 

My wife is off work today and tomorrow, for holidays. She woke me at 7:30 and told me to get the kids off to school. Rushed to do that, and then came back to bed. 

We other woke up around 11. The past couple of days I have been fighting a chest cold, so I've been congested, and up all hours of the night coughing. She woke up, and woke me up. Told me we needed to get groceries. So, I stretched, and sat up. She then looked at me and told me to hurry up. I responded with telling her, I'm not rushing, I'm going to have a coffee and some toast, use the washroom, have a shower and then we'll go. 

She then started to say that I live the life of a teenager. When I asked her to explain, she started on about how I've slept in all weekend. I told her I've been fighting this chest cold and hadn't gotten any sleep the past few nights. She then said it wasn't just this weekend, but during the week, I go back to bed after she has left for work and the kids have gone to school. 

I'm up at 7:30 am and I stay up. I go to the gym, or go and do some running around. Maybe visit a friend, and then clean up the house before work. The only time I went back to sleep was last week, when I woke up With a wicked migraine.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

Well congrats on handling that without losing your temper, that sounds frustrating. I would read #4 in that article I posted you a couple more times and practice those nonconfrontational statements. 

One that is not listed, but on the "pink sheet" and i think is very helpful is to use agreement. Also, I agree with my husband and then state my concern. Example: you are right all that needs done and at the same time* I would like some time to get ready. 

There is a very, very helpful video on the power of two that shows how it is virtually impossible to argue with someone who keeps using agreeing and "and at the same time" in a confrontation. 

All of this is explained in john gottman ' s books, but they are boring and overwhelming to read. That is why I have found power of two so helpful. It is videos games and simple worksheets that teach you better relationship skills (which we all need). 

*see how I used "and at the same time"? Try to remove BUT from your vocabulary because it is a word that erases the first part of the sentence, and it makes people angry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

lurky.lou said:


> Well congrats on handling that without losing your temper, that sounds frustrating. I would read #4 in that article I posted you a couple more times and practice those nonconfrontational statements.
> 
> One that is not listed, but on the "pink sheet" and i think is very helpful is to use agreement. Also, I agree with my husband and then state my concern. Example: you are right all that needs done and at the same time* I would like some time to get ready.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I'll look into that.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

Also, all of this takes time. Work on it, but be patient with yourself if you don't get it right every time it is ok.

Also, don't be afraid to say "that came out wrong let me try it again." 

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TW,

Your wife doesn't respect you. 

I am not saying you aren't worthy of respect. I'm saying she does not respect you. 

It's why she thinks it's ok to sign you up for a second job, without even discussing it with you. And it's why she constantly implying you are lazy or immature. 





TWDead said:


> Thank you.
> 
> My wife is off work today and tomorrow, for holidays. She woke me at 7:30 and told me to get the kids off to school. Rushed to do that, and then came back to bed.
> 
> ...


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

So, I told my wife today that I'm not happy in our marriage. I was pissed off at the way I was treated this morning, and I just, pretty much, spilled about everything. 

I told her that I feel like her chore boy. I told her that I'm hate feeling like the fifth wheel when I hang out with her friends. The list goes on and on. Having a pretty sh*tty night.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

TW Dead, I am just wondering whether your w feels overwhelmed with everything she has to do. She wants you to work/get better jobs to pull your weight. If you are honest with yourself are you pulling your weight?

Who does the following in your home?

the laundry
the ironing
the bulk of the grocery shopping
the cooking
dish washing
the tidying
the school runs
the extra curricular runs
the dusting
the deep cleaning (bathrooms etc)
helping the kids with homework
taking the kids to the park/play time
the gardening
car maintenance
paying the bills/maintaining the finances
pet minding (if any)

How many hours does your wife work
how many hours do you work (on average)


It appears to me that you wanted to support your family financially by taking the factory job, now you have a less secure job (why did you lose the factory job) and your wife is on your case because she thinks you are not pulling your weight?
Is this the crux of the problem?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TWDead said:


> So, I told my wife today that I'm not happy in our marriage. I was pissed off at the way I was treated this morning, and I just, pretty much, spilled about everything.
> 
> I told her that I feel like her chore boy. I told her that I'm hate feeling like the fifth wheel when I hang out with her friends. The list goes on and on. Having a pretty sh*tty night.


What was her response?


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

TW 

I am sorry to hear that you are having a rough go of it. 

One thing that helped me was to make a list of what I thought the problems were, and had my husband do the same thing. Once we knew what the serious problems were, they lost their power. Therefore, it was much easier to look for win/wins. 

You keep mentioning the same problems over and over: 

A. Your wife constantly asking you to do things and is ungrateful.
B. Your wife is unsupportive of your job.
C. Your discussions are unproductive. They steal the positive energy from your marriage, and you end up hurting eachother.
D. Their is not enough time together. This is the result: lack of intimacy and too much resentment. 

Another thing I do, is write quick thank you notes for my husband each day thanking him for 3 things that he did. This serves 3 purposes. It tells him the ways that he pleases me, so he knows what to keep doing, and encourages him. It reminds me that he does do a lot for me and our kids. But most importantly it boosts the positive energy in the marriage. 

When I want my husband to do something I now use "I would like..." For instance, you might say, "I would like to hear thank you for some of the things I do."

Come up with an "exit strategy" if you start to feel angry walk away and give yourself time to calm down. Don't say mean things and then feel extremely guilty. Say something like l, "I am going to take a walk and think about things I'll be back soon." Not horrible comments that will make her more anxious. While you are gone reason with yourself. 

You should focus on yourself (trying to change someone else is a fools errand). Make yourself better. 

Figure out what you need to care for yourself and do it. Example: If you need rest, take it. If you need to play video games, do it. If you need to go to a bar to watch games and make friends, do it. If she complains tell her that you are following the advice on that article I posted. If she refuses to let you relax do it not at home. Make friends (male friends). 

She may follow your lead. If you start doing the power of two, she might join you. If you start being more productive in your discussion she may too. Ect

Lastly, don't hold out sexually if you can help it. It is ugly. 

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

If someone is already having marriage problems, suggesting they go without their spouse and hang out in bars seems really off.

Especially when the complaint is they don't have any time together.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

Thank you. That's a good point. One thing listed on the article is to learn to care for yourself. For me I would expect my husband to watch our baby so I can run. He would always have an excuse why he couldn't. I researched and got a membership at the Y so that I could use their daycare. I think it helps to learn to take care of yourself. Maybe a bar is really bad advice. 

There are sports bars (green bay packers) here that are 90 per cent men and the women are usually with there partner. That is the environment I was thinking of, but again probably not a great answer. 

How can he find a place to relax if his wife won't allow him to?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

Star--

I also agree that the problem is they need time together, but he seems like he needs some time to decompress. In a perfect world, he could decompress with his wife, but being stressed out could cause him to lash out and damage the relationship further. His wife us constantly asking him to do something. Perhaps, ask her to watch a movie or find a video game that she likes? I am not sure what he can do about it. 

Honestly, if it were me I don't even know what I would do. Maybe hide out somewhere?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

Maybe you two can try counseling before you commit to a divorce? You used to love her, right? Maybe it is still there and can be reconciled through counseling. If all else fails then there are free divorce forms you can get online if you need to. Good luck. Free Divorce and Free Divorce Papers - all 50 States - Document Do It Yourself Service


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Thanks everyone. Sorry, needed a day to chill my brain. 

Before we had my first child, I started going to the gym. I went for about a year and a half. I was in amazing shape, but then, working two jobs, and the newborn, I had no time. Even through the years, I've tried, but it was always hard because the kids. Now, all three are in school. I've gotten a membership, (didn't tell her), and a friend from work is a Laos a personal trainer, so he's going to go over a few things with me, to help me get started. I've got all unnatural sugars out of my diet. I've lost 6 pounds in two weeks. I wasn't over weight to begin with, (about 184 pounds). I'm down to 178. She does her sports, so I wanted to get back I to being active. 

I've never been one for the bar seen since I've got married. I can't even remember the last time I was drunk. I find when we do go out, her and I, we have little to talk about, other then work, or kids.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

I think it's great that you went to the gym. If I were you, I would tell her. If she doesn't like it, I would tell her that I am having a hard time and I am just trying to care for myself. 

I love going to the gym. I love the expresso bike. It is pretty fun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

Before you consider divorce you should probably try marriage counseling. Everything was fine before you started overworking yourself in your job, right? Maybe you are just stressed out and when everything is laid out on the table you two can get to the root of the problems and work them out. You still care for her deeply and don’t want to rip the family apart so I wouldn’t. If you need some time alone then go stay with a friend for a while or in a hotel and give yourself some time to think and consider how life will be if you divorce her. I hope it all works out.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

How are things going?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

lurky.lou said:


> How are things going?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi. Sorry, I've had a busy couple of weeks. 

I came forward to my wife with my concerns about our marriage. We both are in agreement, that it doesn't feel like a marriage anymore. We both agree that we've lost that "spark". After a long, good, talk, (as well as lots of she'd years), we've decided to separate. 

We both agreed that we will not fighting or argue, and remain friends and be civil, for the kids. I don't hate my wife, and she doesn't hate me, but there just isn't anything left. 

Maybe some time apart, might mend some fences, and we might be able to rekindle something, but then again, maybe not. 

She wants to keep the house, so she said she will buy me out. We want to keep the kids were they are, so they don't leave their friends, school, etc. 

It's going to be a long road ahead, but we will just have to see what happens in the future.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

Is her keeping the mortgage realistic?

How could the relationship be rekindled while you are apart?

What do you want?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Yes, for the kids. Keep them at the same school and with their friends. I'll probably get my own place. Something small.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

What is the point of separation? From your answers it sounds like you are just exhausted. It sounds like you have been working every minute for months. 

However, I think that you should do the work, even on your own, towards a better marriage. In some cases (abandonment, abuse ect) divorce is reasonable. However, it will not end your problems.

Perhaps you and your wife can try the power of two for 90 days or if not, do it on your own. Then, if you see no progress move toward divorce. 

This way you can at least both give it a shot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You are separating and you didn't even break out a sweat to try and save the marriage? You and your wife are the parents of 3 children and you couldn't try MC and IC to hold the family together for them? You act as if you are going on an extended vacation. Breezy wheezy Have you any idea what this is going to do to your children? Have you broken out a book or a google search to find out the effect of separation and D has on children? 

Is you pain worth more than the devastation that your leaving the home will bring into their lives? Your mild malaise at not being praised for work or not getting beautifies in you stomach for your wife is enough? It would be nice if all children had parents that put their needs first or even on par with themselves or were even aware of the needs of children. 

Nice if they had actual grown up adults that took the responsibility of bringing souls into the world seriously. Instead, more often than not, they have self-absorbed, lazy, whiney and foolish children for parents. Some parents are so lacking in empathy that they tear apart the lives of their children for their own whiney, tiny trifles. Terrible. 

This is not about you or your wife. Your children are losing their stability because mom and dad don't think that their own children are worth extra effort to save the relationship. Even going to MC is to much of a bother.


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## TWDead (Oct 11, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> You are separating and you didn't even break out a sweat to try and save the marriage? You and your wife are the parents of 3 children and you couldn't try MC and IC to hold the family together for them? You act as if you are going on an extended vacation. Breezy wheezy Have you any idea what this is going to do to your children? Have you broken out a book or a google search to find out the effect of separation and D has on children?
> 
> Is you pain worth more than the devastation that your leaving the home will bring into their lives? Your mild malaise at not being praised for work or not getting beautifies in you stomach for your wife is enough? It would be nice if all children had parents that put their needs first or even on par with themselves or were even aware of the needs of children.
> 
> ...


Before you blow your top any more, I'm NOT looking at this as an extended vacation, or anything in the sorts! I AM going to try individual counseling. 

You have NO idea what my wife and I have been through in the past few weeks, since I was last on here! We have sat down, LIKE ADULTS, and TALKED about what is going on in our marriage! We have BOTH cried over what we are going through. BOTH asked each other what our faults are, and what we need to work on. We have BOTH come to the agreement that we need time apart, to see if this is STILL a "WORKING" marriage!

We have had issues before, in the past, and everytime it has been nothing but yelling at each other. The reason we are both calm this time, is because we are both in agreement of the situation and the outcome, which is why we are so, "EASY BREEZY" about things.

You think we don't know what the kids are going to think, or say, or feel? We are BOTH going to sit them down and talk things over with them, and explain to them that we are taking time apart..WHY we are doing so, and WHAT is going to happen with them. 

I'm not doing this to be with someone else, I could give two ****s about that! But, I think the kids will be understanding about mommy and daddy not arguing and fighting anymore!

A friend of ours was telling me the other day, that when her parents split up, it was because they just weren't in love anymore...PERIOD! It wasn't because of what her mom did, or her dad did. She said that they NEVER fought or argued or yelled, it was just because the fell "OUT OF LOVE"!

I still love my wife. I still care about her deeply, but I don't feel like this is happy marriage. And, if that means we are going to separate, and be civil, instead of stay together, and argue and fight, then so be it!

And how DARE you use the kids as leverage! SHAME SHAME! our kids know that we BOTH love and care and provide for them! But, we aren't going to stay unhappy, just for them. My kids are intelligent enough to know that, if we separate, it's NOT because of them! They understand why we rarely do family stuff. We both work to provide for THEM! We sacrifice EVERYTHING for THEM, so they have a roof over their heads, clothes on their back, food in their bellies, and the ability to play sports...something that a lot ofkids don't get to do!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

All of what you said in your post boils down to one question. When is your next MC session?


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

I remember in Gottma's 7 principles of a happy marriage, he talks about the end of the marriage. One thing that can happen is the couple is always negative towards eachother. That is the problem: Positive breeds positive; Negative breeds negative.

If you really want to save your marriage, you will have to will yourself to be positive. You will have to infuse lots of positivity into the marriage when it doesnt seem natural. This isn't my advice. This is from what I remember of John Gottman's book. He completed the only decades long research study on thousands of couples. 

Power of two makes it much easier to follow. It is in baby steps. 

Good will! Whatever you choose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...-and-scissors-how-game-explains-relationships
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Really?? I am using your children as leverage? It appears that your children have no leverage. You said it yourself - you are not going to stay married for them. 

You don't want to be reminded that you have responsibility to your children first above your own problems. Make them a priority and try harder. 

Maybe I was being unfair. In light of your heated response about me using your children, I do have a question - What's the names of the books that you've read on the subject of the effects of separation and D on children? How about the information from Google searches on the subject? 

The very lest you can do is to learn something about what they will endure and try to help them.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

TW Dead, I think you are both exhausted and have no outlet and therefore you both become the 'punching bags' for each other. Life, marriage, kids, long hours working, all take their toll on a marriage. Usually the marriage is the last thing to be considered. Those issues will not go away by separating, they will just be replaced with another set. 
Marriage is really hard work, if you still love each other, dont throw in the towel yet, try everything first, IC, MC, reading, etc dating your wife again, etc.
You should also consider reading when Mars and Venus Collide. I think your work life has drained you and her resulting in the current scenario.


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## lurky.lou (Aug 31, 2015)

I get it. I am not living a miserable life for my children. I love them, but no thank you. 

However, I am willing to work to be happy with my husband. I am now. We had a hard year after the birth of our last child, but a few months of putting our marriage on the front burner turned it around. Now I am thankful that I didn't divorce, even when I felt miserable. 

We both choose to work together to build a better marriage.

Part of this for me has been stopping the housework and excepting that the housework is sliding. Another is teaching kids how to clean up after themselves (smart money, smart kids). Another is finding out what I want and taking responsibility for making myself happy. 

I certainly don't have all the answers. However, I don't think you do realize how catastrophic divorce would be for your family. 

I think both your perspectives need a paradigm shift. 

Instead of:

Can I make this work? 

You should think:

How can I make this work? 

I think you and your wife have taken the union for granted (forgive me if I am projecting).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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