# iPhone, Laptop and Trust Issues (Affaircare - you out there?)



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Affaircare – hoping you will address since you’ve been on the other side of this in the past, but I will gladly listen to opinions from all.

Things feel better between my wife and I, but they are still not to a point where I would want her living at home again.

The iPhone and “her” laptop are still issues for me at this point.

Seems odd that during the last couple of months, even though I see on the phone bill that the texts have finally stopped, my wife is still very “active” with her phone. She says she’s just updating her calendar or checking people’s facebook updates, but she seems to be doing a lot of typing with her fingers to just be “checking” FB info. 

When I have pushed the issue of openness in therapy, both the therapist and my wife agree that we all need privacy. I’ve locked nothing, my phone sits on the kitchen counter when I’m at home, and my wife has access to my e-mail.

Things got ugly / weird Saturday night. Wife stayed the night so she could wake up at the house with the kids on Mother’s day. Saturday night around midnight she went sign on to her laptop. She was having some problems logging onto to our home network. When I offered to help, she started to close the laptop and seemed very nervous – said she’d figure it out. I got upset, but she quickly diffused the situation by saying that she would not fight with me in the LR after the kids were in bed. So – I went to sleep.

I brought this up to her on the phone last night, and she really has no good answers as to why I can’t look at “her laptop” or see “her” phone. She just says these are “her” things and I don’t need to see them. When I try to talk about trust, openness, etc, its in one ear and out the other.

How should I approach this? My / our therapist seems to think I should let it go. The therapist seems to think that we've made some progress. My wife wants credit for stopping a behavior she never should have started (texting and calling other guys). 

I have no proof, but my gut feeling and just little things here and there make me think she’s likely still e-mailing or using yahoo messenger to keep in touch with some of her "friends."


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## showtime (Mar 18, 2010)

Yeah that sucks, I went with my gut feeling back when my W was having her affair. When I found out she said she would stop, but wouldn't give me access to her fb or emails ect... But now after the affair is over I have access to everything and she is fine with it. She actually wanted me to have these things, I didn't even have to ask.

So I know now back when my W wouldn't give me access to her passwords, she was messaging through fb. Of course back then I didn't have the password so I couldn't tell for sure. But my gut told me and my gut was right!!!

So I hate to say it, but go with your gut. You have a pretty good idea of what is going on, your wife and YOU are just trying to convince yourself otherwise. I can't really offer up any advice as how to stop it. But maybe just explain for you to fully move forward with this you need all passwords. Don't freak out if you don't get them, just let it be known and keep after it when the timing is right.

Good luck, I feel for you, I have been in the same boat.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Thx Showtime. I've read your thread - it almost reads like a textbook on how to stop an affair.

Part of what I struggle with is that I don't think I'm dealing with a traditional affair, or even an emotional affair. I think my wife is addicted to her phone and ATTENTION (from other men.)

All I know for sure is that my wife has told me too many lies in the last year and spent a lot of time texting and talking to too many other guys on the phone.

Trusting my "gut" (and even the therapist agrees), I don't think she's done anything physical. She doesn't shave her legs, doesn't keep up her appearance, and still comes to me for sex.

I'm just not sure how far her "chats" go. It very well could just be that she's flirting for attention - or maybe its sex chat.

I "think" she's going through a mid-life thing brought on by a disability that has put her off of work.


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## showtime (Mar 18, 2010)

Well that very well could be, that she needs attention from other guys or whatever. But what I have learned is that until you start giving her the attention she needs, she will never stop what she is doing. My suggestion would be toget the Love Dare book and work on that. Once your W can see you are into her and she can trust that, she will start coming around. It will take some time and obviously won't happen overnight, but eventually things can get better. I'm sure you know it takes a lot of work, but if you put forth the effort you can have a better relationship than ever. I am a true believer now. I wasn't before, but after everything I went through, I realize it can be done. And YOU can do it to!!! But your gonna have to take the reigns.


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## Sadman (Feb 25, 2010)

I`ve been through this too, after finding out about my wifes two online affairs, I asked for total transparency, email & Facebook passwords.

At first she wouldn`t give them to me, she said it was something personal to her etc, that I wasn`t interested in Facebook, so why would I want to look, other than checking up on her.

Eventually she gave them to me as I overly emphasised that if there is nothing to hide then she should be open, help me with the trust issues under these difficult circumstances and for us to move forward.


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## Aero (May 10, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Affaircare – hoping you will address since you’ve been on the other side of this in the past, but I will gladly listen to opinions from all.
> 
> Things feel better between my wife and I, but they are still not to a point where I would want her living at home again.
> 
> ...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> Affaircare – hoping you will address since you’ve been on the other side of this in the past, but I will gladly listen to opinions from all.
> ... The iPhone and “her” laptop are still issues for me at this point.


Hi Niceguy...I'm here. I'd be happy to address the issue of trust and regaining trust and privacy and whatnot after an affair. 



> Seems odd that during the last couple of months, even though I see on the phone bill that the texts have finally stopped, my wife is still very “active” with her phone. She says she’s just updating her calendar or checking people’s facebook updates, but she seems to be doing a lot of typing with her fingers to just be “checking” FB info.
> 
> When I have pushed the issue of openness in therapy, both the therapist and my wife agree that we all need privacy. I’ve locked nothing, my phone sits on the kitchen counter when I’m at home, and my wife has access to my e-mail... I brought this up to her on the phone last night, and she really has no good answers as to why I can’t look at “her laptop” or see “her” phone. She just says these are “her” things and I don’t need to see them. When I try to talk about trust, openness, etc, its in one ear and out the other.


Based only on your side and what you've said here in this post, I would say that it certainly does raise some red flags with me. One thing your wife and therapist said raises a BIG, HUGE red flag, and that is "...we all need privacy." Yes, this is true but there is privacy and there is secrecy. 

PRIVACY is when you go to the bathroom and you close the door. Privacy is not seeking to hide the true essence of who you are, what you think or feel, or what you're doing. Privacy could be defined as "preventing intimate acts or one's body from being seen by others for the purpose of modesty" or even "preventing unwelcome searching of one's personal possessions"--but in this instance, that would beg the question "Why would she not want her spouse, the man to whom she made a vow, to search her personal possessions?" So privacy means I am being honest with you and open with you about who I am, what I think and feel, and what I'm doing, but I do feel some need for personal space, modesty, or solitude. It is not concealment. 

SECRECY, on the other hand, is concealment. Secrecy is what destroys trust and that's because secrecy is all about HIDING the true essence of who you are, what you think and feel, and what you're doing. For example, in real life your wife may feel like you've abandoned her and ignored her, but she does not reveal that to you. Instead she turns to another man who takes the time for her and doesn't ignore her and then hides from you the true essence of who she is (by lying) and hides from you what she's doing and with who! 

So your issue, niceguy, as I see it is not with privacy. If your wife were being transparent with you (which would probably mean telling you honestly some things that you may not want to hear...that would hurt you) but wanted some personal space, solitude, or modesty my guess is that you'd be okay with that. From what I see, your issue is with SECRECY!! Even with the "unwelcome searching of personal possesions"...okay I have to admit that at first it did feel a little like my Dear Hubby was all "up in my business" and that was a little weird but also somewhat understandable considering I had lied. The fastest way to recover trust is not by saying, "Just trust me" and continue to be secretive and hide what I'm doing! The fastest way to recover trust is to be TRANSPARENT and show the real thoughts and feelings and ACTIONS even if they are kind of ugly. It may not be pretty or complimentary but at least it's the truth, it's revealed, it was voluntary, and now it can be dealt with. 



> How should I approach this? My / our therapist seems to think I should let it go. The therapist seems to think that we've made some progress. My wife wants credit for stopping a behavior she never should have started (texting and calling other guys).
> 
> I have no proof, but my gut feeling and just little things here and there make me think she’s likely still e-mailing or using yahoo messenger to keep in touch with some of her "friends."


First, I'd explain the Privacy/Secrecy thing to the therapist. You are COOL with transparency and accompanying privacy--NOT COOL with lack of personal transparency and secrecy. That does not build trust and whatever you do build is being built on something that's not the true essence of your wife. Does that make sense? Really you can never "rebuild" your marriage until you are the real YOU and she is the real HER. 

Now, I do have this small suggestion. Your therapist may have a small point in that it is very helpful to give your wife some credit when she does the right thing, but at this point here's how I see it. She outright LIED to your face and said she wasn't doing what she was. Now it is up to her to give you reasonable proof beyond "her word" that she's not doing it...because she lost the privilege of "her word" when she lied. Lying means that "her word" means zero. Also getting passwords to one email means zero too because she'll either move it to IM or to FB or to another email. It has to be ALL of them or nothing. Then that would give you verification. And yep if you verify and see that your wife really is not contacting others, then give her some credit. Tell her you checked, you saw she's being true to her word, and you appreciate it very much. Glow on her a little because especially at first fighting that temptation can be hard! 

But from what you've described, I don't think she has stopped and until she absolutely, positively STOPS your marriage will spin it's wheels and can not be rebuilt.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback.

I have talked to her about what I see as the difference between privacy and secrecy, and I've told her that I just "can't" trust her on her word alone.

Right now I have nothing to really go off of except some suspicious behavior, a poor recent track record and a bad feeling in my gut.

Other than serving her with papers based on circumstantial evidence, is there a way to kickstart the honesty and openness that I need to move forward?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Agree with all of the below. I also think your guess is about right - she wants attention from others, not necessarily sex. 

Still - to fix your marriage a conversation needs to happen along these lines:

Husband: Wife, you need to be straight with me - are you seeking external male attention because I don't give you enough attention as your H? If that is true, WHAT do you need from me to make it possible for you to give up these other guys?

Or are you seeking external male attention simply because it feels good and you like it. And your behavior has nothing to do with anything I am doing/not doing. 

Because if you don't know the answer to that question you don't know if she believes you should change, or she needs to change. 

I also think that until she is willing to come to you and say some version of the following, you cannot reconcile with hope of a good outcome:
1. I breached our vows and I am terribly sorry for doing that AND
2. I promise I will NEVER do that again AND
3. I am willing to do whatever you ask (within reason) to repair our marriage including giving you all my passwords/accounts

While I agree that on the surface her attention seeking behavior may be purely emotional it does not change the fact that allowing it to continue gives her a free pass to try to find a male upgrade to you on an open end basis. AND THAT is toxic to both of you. Either she wants to be with you or she doesn't. 






Affaircare said:


> Hi Niceguy...I'm here. I'd be happy to address the issue of trust and regaining trust and privacy and whatnot after an affair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Right now I have nothing to really go off of except some suspicious behavior, a poor recent track record and a bad feeling in my gut.


Right now you have nothing to base TRUST on either! Niceguy, trust isn't something she innately has unless you can "prove" otherwise. Shoot, she HAD that and you DID prove otherwise, and so now she is in the position of having NO TRUST and having to prove to you it's worth it to trust her. So recent poor track record = NO TRUST and she has to earn any back by proving she is trustworthy. Trustworthy = words and actions match. Right now, words say "I want to work on our marriage and I choose you" but actions say "I don't want you to see the real me, or know my real thoughts or feels, or see what I'm doing." That is just not trustworthy. 

That being said, I agree with MEM. When you hear THAT kind of talk coming from her mouth, she's serious. Until then, she is jerking you along and probably still in contact (either cut back or further underground). 

By the way one thing you asked I can answer in one word:


> Other than serving her with papers based on circumstantial evidence, is there a way to kickstart the honesty and openness that I need to move forward?


NO. She has to WANT to be open, honest and transparent. There is nothing you can do to "make" her be honest. So there it is. It's up to her to either BE honest or not. 

I would suggest that you consider it this way. She had an affair. She says she wants to be with you? Cool--it's up to her to prove it to you in a way that you believe and to act in a way that matches her word, and she doesn't have forever to prove it. Either get on the ball and be honest immediately or your boundary is that you won't have dishonest people in your marriage.

Seriously I'd say: "Get honest and do it now or we're done fooling around. 100% show me or don't talk to me again until you're willing to do so...and no I won't support your love affairs and the kids will not be leaving their beds, homes, neighborhoods and friends because you choose to continue to be dishonest."


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

Niceguy,
I have followed your posts for few months and I think you should really try to get some evidence on your own if she is not willing to tell you herself. The not knowing is even more difficult than finding about an A.

Find what you can find and set your boundries and tell her you won't wait for her forever.

You know my story. My MIL told me last Thursday that I should not spend the rest of my life alone and should also not wait for anyone. This is from a woman who "almost" believes her son is having an affair 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks again for ALL of the feedback.

I know its all good advice...its just hard to put into action.

I look at "My Family" and everyone seems to be doing OK - except sometimes me.

The kids are dealing OK with the separation. Mommy and Daddy haven't been fighting in front of them.

I'm actually dealing OK with the separation most of the time. The time apart is fine. I no longer feel "lonely" and I don't really want to be with her much right now. 

And - as stupid as it may sound - I still love my wife and don't want to see her suffer the consequences of her own actions.

But what hurts is feeling like I'm being lied to on an emotional and personal level. Not about who she's calling, or texting, but how she's truly feeling.

The lie I'm struggling the most with is that she wants things to work and for our marriage to continue and improve over where we were before.

But I'm also not sure I'm ready - for whatever reason - to move on just yet. It still feels like there are things I need to do, or things I haven't tried. 

I go through spurts of feeling like I'm getting things together - going to the gym, doing more housework, start a project at home. But then something will happen and I'll bottom out for a few days - drink more beer, eat more junk, watch more TV.

I'd love to say that I'm ready to rise up from the ashes and be the man I need to be - either for me or for her - but I don't think I'm there just yet.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Is she still hitting the bars?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Yes Cody. I believe she hit the bars twice in the last week. I plan to go out in a couple of weeks myself - with or without her - to watch the next UFC PPV. Rampage v. Sugar Rashad!

She's also called me twice, crying, saying she wants to come home in the last week. Suddenly, after all of this patience, after all of this waiting and doing what I think is right, I feel like I have made some progress and done so on my own terms.

The first time she called I had just finished typing an email about what I thought needed to change before she comes home. I didn't send it, but had printed it off. I read it to her - she listened without arguing and seemed to "get it." It was one of my better pieces of work. I think I should hang it on the fridge!

The second time she called I was just quiet. She asked why I wasn't saying anything - and I said that I'd already told her what I thought needed to change, I'd said it as well as I could, didn't want to re-hash it again, and that I needed to SEE the changes to know it was real. And not just a couple of days of change - but something more substantial.

I DID tell her that I was open to us spending more time together. She stayed the weekend at the house. It was good. A little awkward, but good.

I haven't demanded any passwords, but I did take a few glances over her shoulder while she was on her computer. She didn't flinch, which was good.

Sunday we had a very open and honest conversation. I'm not sure we really resolved anything - but we were honest with each other.

I go back and read my last post about not "rising from the ashes" - and I think I was just down and not giving myself enough credit that day.

My wife called - crying - asking to come home - twice - and I said "let's talk about it." (gives self pat on the back)

I'm really not that afraid of my wife going to bars. I'm just afraid that she won't be honest with me about how she really feels. I didn't ask a lot of questions this weekend, and I'm tired of asking about phone bills and who/what/where/when. More interested in "why" right now.

She told me this weekend that she feels lost. I think that's the most honest and real thing she's said to me in a long time.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

did you not say somewhere that she was not working? Where does she find the money for cell phones and bars?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

She has some money of her own and we are still sharing "my" income.

Since I want to give things an honest chance, I've continued to support her.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

May I make a suggestion? 

It seems at times as if your wife teeters on wanting to come home but mainly because she has no alternative--not because she's willing to work on herself, admit her part in all this, or build something better and stronger. I admire the fact that you have been very patient with her and grown some yourself to the point that you're not willing to accept her scraps! I admire that you are allowing her to experience her choice to not work on herself by not just "letting her come home" with no changes. And I think you are sharing your income out of generosity and genuinely trying to give her time to figure it out and work on herself. These are all admirable things.

However, it is conceivable that by sharing your income you are actually prolonging the separation and delaying her learning her life lessons. You see, SHE is the one who chose another man and who chose to move out...and since that was her choice, she should be allowed to experience the consequences of her choices. She will learn faster that way and it is the most loving thing you can do for her! May I suggest that beginning June 1st you keep track of the expenses you pay "for her" from your income and present her with that sheet at the end of the month? The intent is to let her have fair warning that as long as she continues to choice to harden her heart, not admit her part, and refuse to change--this will be the financial impact, that you are NOT willing to bear this burden for her endlessly, and that SHE will be responsible for that amount or more on her own very shortly? 

If you can prepare that now for the month of May--cool.  The sooner the better! But if not, and if you are willing to be generous another month literally out of the goodness of your heart--I think tracking it will open both YOUR EYES and HER EYES. You should know the amount that her decisions are costing your children. And she should see the amount it costs to live "in the manner to which she's become accustomed" and let HER figure out how to work for that amount!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AC,

I had actually proposed this a few months ago. I moved a "decent" sum of money into my own new separate account and even suggested she do the same. I suggested she pay her bills out of her account and see how much she would need to draw - and how soon - from our common funds.

But - I didn't follow through. At that time, just moving a "decent" amount of money gave her a temporary scare. I don't think it was the money - but that was one of the first things I'd done that wasn't just a reaction to something else that she'd done.

I've also been closely tracking our expenses for a couple of years now. I'm in the finance industry and like so many others have been concerned about making sure we could get by if I ever lost my job. I'm pretty sure I know what she would need - and it isn't pretty.

I appreciate your advice and response and will take it under consideration.

Thank you for your help - all of you! So many times its just nice to know someone is listening!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

You know one thing I've always appreciated about you niceguy? Even if you ultimately decide to not take an action or advice that was given, you at least take the time to consider if it will work for you and then explain how you came to that decision. Even the times when we've disagreed or you've decided to "not listen" you do it in a respectful, well-thought-out way that is in line with the life you want have decided to live. And that is just COOL! :toast:

(I was also in the finance industry and we live a life that is not very rich, yet we own EVERYTHING and have no debt...and we have everything we need in life and more.) Having also been in finances--I was an accountant--I suspected that if she had even a clue of what she would be faced with having to earn to maintain her lifestyle "on her own" it might be an incentive. For example, when my exH left for his mistress, I found out that the bills I thought he had been paying had been financing the affair and we were months behind on each one and on the verge of shut off for each one. So I learned--AND QUICKLY--just how much it took to keep our house payment and bills plus paying back late fees! To go from that SAHM or part-time little bit of spending cash mentality to "Holy smoke I have to support myself and find a way to find something reasonable for the kids too!" could be a gigantic wake up call.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks AC.

Sometimes I look at all the different ways to "push" your spouse into coming home, or ending an affair, and I just wonder if these aren't just temporary solutions.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want my wife to come home just because she can't afford to live on her own. If that's her main reason, then its only a matter of time before I'm going through this again.

I know I don't always follow everyone's advice here. There was a point where I was kind of freaking out because so many people here were telling me to "Man Up" - when it dawned on me that its really not very Manly to feel an obligation to follow the advice from some (well meaning) strangers you've met on the 'net. If I can't stand up to "you guys" when I disagree, I know I don't stand a chance with my wife!

Hope this makes sense. Not sure if I'm right, but like everything else, I'm going with my gut. Its been amazing how accurate those "weird feelings" have been at times.

Thanks again!


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Sorry to keep interjecting my issue into this, but all of this is going on yet she still feels a hankering to party with strange men at meat markets all night, a couple of times a week. And nobody has a problem with that. Again, what do you tink she's doing while she's there?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

She has three different friends that she typically goes out with. One is her male cousin, who is going through a divorce. The other two are women - one who is 50 and finalizing a divorce, and the other is a woman that was 'hooked up with' her cousin for a short time.

I think she drinks - I think she talks with her friends. She mostly just goes to one bar that's close to her place. She knows the waitresses and likes to chat with them. Sometimes they have live music or karaoke. 

I think men probably hit on her and she probably loves the attention. And - maybe I'm being naive - but I think it stops there.

I'm not thrilled about it - its on my list of "stuff that has to change before you come home." But if I'm right, I don't consider those things above to be deal breakers. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I think you are smart by not creating a strong financial pressure for her to move home. It provides a much clearer picture of what she really wants to do. 

Does she work full time? Because if not, this is a really sweet deal for her. 

Niceguy,
Do you really believe she loves you - truly deeply loves you? Because she does not act like a woman who loves/has a lot of respect. Even if she didn't really love, but had a lot of respect she would have apologized/begged forgiveness by now. 

I think the long period of time during which you tolerated her treating you badly - constantly using her phone/texting while you were together - other stuff like that - has taken its toll. 

I am going somewhere with this - bear with me. 

It seems like she is choosing to stay out of the house. I know that "technically" you won't let her return. But the truth is if she wanted to come home she could do so in a day. All she has to do is apologize and promise transparency. She knows that. She just doesn't want to come home. 

So the real question here is WHY? As you have pointed out, we have limited information. Do you have some ideas as to why she just isn't that into you? Could be as simple as you letting her treat you very badly. Could be a whole lot more complicated and difficult to figure out. If it is the former problem, there is a solution - but it requires the willingness to take a risk. 

Before I say anything more about your situation, I will tell you more about mine. Together 21 years - 3 kids. A few very very difficult kid issues recently, plus wife sometimes speaking without thinking plus my having a temper resulted in two recent conflicts that escalated to the point she talked about us separating. 

Both times I calmly told her we would do whatever she wanted. I told her if she didn't want to be with me I accepted that. And then I went on about my day. I posted more detail about this in another thread - but the thing is I left it to her. And both times I think she read that to mean I wasn't going to beg/plead, but that if she walked away she might not have the option to come back. In both cases - within a day she apologized for going temporarily mad, etc. And in both cases I apologized for upsetting her to that degree. End of story. 

Back to you, if her real issue is simply that you weren't firm enough with her, you can fix that though IMO you are going to have to be willing to take a much firmer stance than you have to date. But if her real issue is that for a mix of reasons she just doesn't feel the way about you that she THINKS she should feel for her H, than there really isn't a fix for this. 











nice777guy said:


> She has three different friends that she typically goes out with. One is her male cousin, who is going through a divorce. The other two are women - one who is 50 and finalizing a divorce, and the other is a woman that was 'hooked up with' her cousin for a short time.
> 
> I think she drinks - I think she talks with her friends. She mostly just goes to one bar that's close to her place. She knows the waitresses and likes to chat with them. Sometimes they have live music or karaoke.
> 
> ...


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM -a lot of good stuff to think about.

I'm not sure if she really loves me or not. Like so many here, at this point, I'm a bit jaded. Wondering if love is real. Would she be there for me if I needed her? I think she would. That counts for something.

So much of the last year stems from her health problems which started over two years ago. She had worked hard to complete nursing school and then was sent home with a fever just a few months after starting her first job. The fever is still there. She has been diagnosed with Fibro and Chronic Fatigue, which goes hand in hand with depression.

Why is she not that into me? First of all, when she was in nursing school and after she became sick, I took over the role as the primary parent to our two young girls. And if things needed to be done at home, I did them. When she got sick, I spent a lot of time listening to her go over and over her medical records and attended a lot of appointments with her. None of this is 'sexy' - for either of us.

I think the larger issue isn't that she is or isn't into me. I think its that there have been guys who have been willing to give her a great deal of time and attention, and that sneaking around and texting and doing things she shouldn't be doing was a thrill. She had nothing but time, while I had very little time while working and being the best Dad I could be. (I "thought" I was being a good husband too - by going to appointments, doing more work around the house and listening to her when she needed to talk - but maybe she needed something different.)

As for her moving home, for her to apologize and ask for forgiveness would be nothing more than a good start. Right now I'm not asking her for promises - I'm asking her to show me that she's working to make changes. A promise to be transparent means nothing to me right now, because promises can quickly be broken. And honestly, I'm not sure I'll get some grand apology. She's stubborn.

This weekend when she said she was lost - I totally believe her. I also told her that she is doing nothing to help be "found." The answers to her problems don't lie with alcohol, facebook, late nights at bars, playing on her iPhone, etc., etc. These things help her to temporarily forget about her problems, but we all know they are just empty distractions.

Having a loving husband with a good income who is great with the kids has given her the freedom to avoid dealing with her issues.

And last but not least - I'm still trying to figure out what I want at this point too.

This **** wears my ass out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> did you not say somewhere that she was not working? Where does she find the money for cell phones and bars?


That's what I was just going to ask. Are you PAYING for her to live somewhere else?

STOP DOING THAT if you are!

You might also add, the next time she wants to stay at the house - "You're welcome to stay here any time you want, as long as you abide by the rules in this house - total transparency on computers and cell phones - for ALL of us."


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Look, I get your reasoning that she shouldn't come home just because she can't afford to live on her own. 

OTOH, she isn't 'into' you because you do EVERYTHING and she takes you for granted. Women cannot respect a man who does EVERYTHING. They may thank you, they may grow to expect it from you, and then they cast their gaze out to the horizon, to find the guys they 'really' want - the sexy, exciting, hard-to-win ones who DON'T do laundry and doctor's appointments.

Sad, but true. 

If you want her to be into you, you have to develop some boundaries. Telling her what you are willing to accept as far as transparency in your own home is a good start. But there's a lot more to think about. Such as, 'if you do come home, things are going to change. Since you no longer work, and I do, it is YOU who will have to take over 75% of the work around the house and taking care of necessities. That way, I will have time to actually enjoy my family, which I deserve just as much as you do.'

JMHO


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

She has an addiction to attention from men who aren't her husband. Fascinating. I believe she loves you, loves her kids, loves the financial stability, loves her life with you. Loves everything about it. But she has an addiction standing in the way of her attaining it. And she seemingly CHOOSES that addiction over everything she loves.

If she were giving it all up because she couldn't stay off the pills, the needle, the bottle, the...whatever, we'd all understand. We wouldn't approve, of course, but we'd get it. She's giving it all up so she can flirt.

Fascinating.

And she's just chatting with her waitress friends until 3AM, huh?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Turnera - 

Wasn't there an old expression about there being nothing sexier than seeing a man playing joyfully with his children? If that were the case, I'd be Fabio! Thought I remembered something similar with involving a vacuum cleaner, but I'm guessing at this point these are just lies...

Her medical condition clouds things, and depression complicates things further. I'm not making excuses. Many people with her conditions and worse are working - many out of necessity. But, as I said above - having a loving, dependable husband with a good income who is a great dad has allowed my wife the freedom to ignore some of her own personal issues.

What she's been through - working hard to get a degree and then running into a wall - has been hard.

And I totally agree that there have to be some changes regarding how we divide work around the house. I'm hoping that this is something that we can address in marriage therapy.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Cody - some days I do see it as being similar to alcoholism. She's focused on things that make her feel good NOW.

One of her common defenses is that many people spend a lot of time playing with their iPhones - its addictive.

And I "think" that if I didn't work and wasn't playing "single Dad" - if I could text her 100 times per day and stay out until 3am - things would get better a lot faster. That's obviously not realistic.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I have to admit I'm addicted to Sudoku on my phone, play it whenever I have time...it's mind-numbing and escapism.

Did I ever suggest that you get her a book called Healing The Shame That Binds You? She may find it fascinating and it just may apply to her.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I know she had checked out a book called "Married to Distraction" that she saw on Dr. Phil when he did a show on FB addiction. Don't think she's read any of it.

She was also given a book over a year ago by her doctor entitled Transforming Anger. It used to be kind of a joke to ask her if she'd transformed any anger lately. Not funny at this point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes, well, this would go in a different direction...as to her underlying reasons why she is compelled to do such things. 

Assuming she cares to find out. At least if you read it, you may understand more about her.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
Her current situation is very nice for her. She has minimal responsibilities and someone else is paying all her bills AND raising her children. Plus all that free time allows her to indulge her FB and male attention seeking behaviors. 

The grand apology has actually nothing to do with her and everything to do with you. I can tell you - my wife is VERY stubborn and she sometimes decides not to apologize even when her behavior is not defensible. Guess what - that is not acceptable to me. It shows a lack of respect. And when I say that to her in a very sharp voice - she wakes up and does the right thing. 

So the apology is predicated on "you have taken good care of me and our children, and you are a good guy, you deserve better than the way I treated you - I am sorry and won't do that again" 

THAT is about respect. Not being stubborn. 

How long are you prepared to let your wife feed her addictions while you work triple time - your day job, the kids, and incur the extra expense of paying for her separate living space? 




nice777guy said:


> Cody - some days I do see it as being similar to alcoholism. She's focused on things that make her feel good NOW.
> 
> One of her common defenses is that many people spend a lot of time playing with their iPhones - its addictive.
> 
> And I "think" that if I didn't work and wasn't playing "single Dad" - if I could text her 100 times per day and stay out until 3am - things would get better a lot faster. That's obviously not realistic.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM - once again excellent points.

I was actually thinking about a timeline / deadline before I read your post.


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## sntdwn2ufrmhvn (May 20, 2010)

well i won't say one way or another whether or not you should trust her. i will say that your gut feeling is usually right. i will also suggest some things you could do to ease your mind, but if she is being truthful it WILL cause problems in your relationship, if she is lying it won't matter b/c she was lying and you deserve to know.

-if you know any of the answers to the security questions for her email or facebook or anything, you can reset passwords, i actually reset DH's passwords, changed his own security questions and caught him talking to a girl he slept with. if you can crack the email passwords then the facebook ones are easy, because they send the reset passwords to the email addys. this was very time consuming for me, and very stressful, but i couldn't take the not knowing anymore...so i confronted him, and we are now working through things. 

IMO, in a marriage you should be completely open about everything. you should have each others email passwords, also facebook and any other accounts...access to phones, laptops, etc. if you aren't hiding anything, why does it matter?


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