# Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure up!



## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure up!*

Hi,

I've been with my wife for 10 years (5 years married), this has been an ongoing discussion in our relationship and I feel it has ruined our once great relationship.

I'm not an overly affectionate guy, I would classify myself as a "acts of service" love language type of guy where I show love by doing things instead of verbally expressing my love. On the other hand, my wife is an overly affectionate woman, which I would classify her love language as "words of affirmation".

I always felt our relationship was great and she agrees with me as well, but we have been on a roller coaster ride that always comes back to how she doesn't feel loved. The way she has said it before is, the way that I show her love is not the way she receives love.

The part that confuses me is I do show her affectionate but it seems like it's never enough for her. She use to joke and say she only got 5 months of the honeymoon period with me and that I tricked her into falling in love with me because I'm not that guy anymore.

These discussions usually end up with me saying I will try being more affectionate with her, and I'll try to tell her "I love her" more often, compliment her more often, do small romantic things more often, etc. and I do these things for her but I tend to slip back to my normal/natural way I show affection towards her; which is probably not as often as she would like. 

And lately, I noticed that when we have this discussion I tell her I will try more but she just doesn't believe me or is not affectionate with me as much because this has been on going for so long.

As a guy, of course one of my important needs is to be more intimate with my wife instead of it feeling like a chore sometimes. We have talked about this before and I know she's not an overly sexual person but it's not a deal breaker for me; I still love her regardless and want to be with her.

However, it feels like she always gets "stuck" on this more affectionate / feeling loved discussion no matter how great all other aspects of our relationship is. I feel like I will never measure up to what she needs to feel loved instead of just appreciating/accepting all the other great things about our relationship. 

It saddens me that I'm not able to make her feel truly loved and I hate that I do the things she likes but then fall back to my normal ways of showing that I love her. However, another part of me resents her for not accepting the way that I show love. When we use to get into fights about this I would say if you are so unhappy with me, this relationship, why are you still with me? She would say because she loves me, but I don't accept that answer anymore if you really love me and want to be with me then you have to stop bringing this discussion up all the time because it's killing our marriage.

I don’t think anyone finds a "10 out of 10" perfect match and there are things I wish I could change about my wife but I accept her being a "7 out of 10" because I want to be with her regardless, but it feels like my wife is never able to accept my faults as a "7 out of 10" and is trying to turn me into a "10 out of 10". 

Just trying to get some outside perspective from other people who have been in similar situations.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

So you do all this stuff trying to change for her, but she does nothing in return??

Marriage is a two way street. She needs to figure that out. Quit bending over backwards for her, but at the same time quit expecting anything from her.

It sounds like you've read The Five Love Languages. Have you read His Needs Her needs? Or done any marriage counseling?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> *It saddens me that I'm not able to make her feel truly loved and I hate that I do the things she likes but then fall back to my normal ways of showing that I love her. * However, another part of me resents her for not accepting the way that I show love. When we use to get into fights about this I would say if you are so unhappy with me, this relationship, why are you still with me? She would say because she loves me, but I don't accept that answer anymore if you really love me and want to be with me then you have to stop bringing this discussion up all the time because it's killing our marriage.
> 
> I don’t think anyone finds a "10 out of 10" perfect match and there are things I wish I could change about my wife but I accept her being a "7 out of 10" because I want to be with her regardless, but it feels like my wife is never able to accept my faults as a "7 out of 10" and is trying to turn me into a "10 out of 10".
> 
> Just trying to get some outside perspective from other people who have been in similar situations.


I'd ask yourself how important it is to you for your wife to be in love with you. Affection is a top intimate emotional need for most women, including me. It is often NOT a top intimate emotional need for many men. But we look to our spouses to meet our top 4 emotional needs that create feelings of love: affection, intimate conversation, recreational companionship, and sex. These top needs create feelings of love, and without them, we lose feelings of love for our spouse. You are fortunate that your wife is complaining to you so you can fix it for her, instead of her letting herself fall out of love with you without telling you. 

When you two were dating, you likely had no problem meeting this need for her, which is why she fell in love with you. She likely had no trouble meeting your need for sex, because you two were in love. 

Acts of service are great for getting things done, but many times, they don't create feelings of love like the top 4 intimate emotional needs do.

The solution is simple: stop falling back to your old ways of forgetting to give your wife affection. Make it a priority. List it out on your notes app on your iphone if you have to- just don't forget to do a list of things every day to meet her need for affection. Your wife will fall back in love with you and be more interested in meeting your need for sex if you're spending time meeting the other important intimate needs as well.

I'd also recommend you read His Needs, Her Needs. The 5 Love Languages is a light read and helpful, but His Needs, Her Needs goes deeper and explains what to actually DO to meet the needs of your spouse in marriage.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> It saddens me that I'm not able to make her feel truly loved and * I hate that I do the things she likes but then fall back to my normal ways of showing that I love her*. However, another part of me resents her for not accepting the way that I show love. When we use to get into fights about this I would say if you are so unhappy with me, this relationship, why are you still with me? She would say because she loves me, but I don't accept that answer anymore if you really love me and want to be with me then you have to stop bringing this discussion up all the time because it's killing our marriage.


Stop doing the bolded.

If you love her and know how to show her that in a way that she understands, why wouldn't you do that? Why should she accept as proof of your love for her things that don't mean anything to her?

If your way of feeling loved was for your wife to have sex with you but your wife's way of showing you that she loved you was by keeping the house spotless, would that be okay with you? Couldn't she just say "If you love me you'd stop talking about sex all the time because it's killing the marriage"?

Now, it's possible that she really doesn't need what she claims to need; but giving it to her is a nice place to start.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

So right off the bat it seems that:

1. You want her to stop complaining about the problem instead of you making a consistent effort to address the problem
2. You recognize that acts of service is not her love language but you want her to figure out how to replace her need for words of affirmation with acts of service so you won't have to do anything beyond what comes naturally to you, to make her feel loved
3. It saddens you that you can't make her feel truly loved and you hate that you always revert to the old ways but you don't hate it enough and aren't saddened by it enough to do things differently
4. You've discussed this issue repeatedly and every time you try to address the problem, you revert back to your old ways but you're confused as to why she no longer believes that you'll keep trying, 

Did I read that right?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

If you want her to start "appreciating the relationship," you need to work to meet her needs instead of faulting her for telling you what she needs to have a happy, fulfilling marriage.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

I think it remarkable that you don't see the relationship between what you want and what you re asked in return


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Thanks for all the replies!

I do the affectionate things she needs, but when I say I go back to my normal ways, meaning I don't do them as often as she would like. It feels like there is a hole in her "emotional tank" and I'm always falling short to keep on filling it. I give her random hugs/kisses, tell her she looks beautiful when we are going out, cuddle with her on the couch, rub her back, etc.

She has admitted to me that she has always had issues with men not paying attention to her because her father never would really listen to her growing up and on top of that she is a very hyper sensitive person; so I try my best to always be attentive, understand her, and pay attention to all her needs.

We have talked in the past how people have different needs and she would say it's not fair to me that she requires so much "more" because there is no one else she wants to be with except me, and she would go on to say that I would be happier with someone else that requires "less" affection.

It just feels like the affectionate I give her is never enough for her.

I do feel marriage is a 2 way street, and when I'm going out of my way to do "more" of what she needs; it is never met with her doing more of what meets my needs. She has no problem telling me what makes her happy but she never is able to step out of her comfort zone and do the things that make me happy; so sometimes it feels very one-sided.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I do feel marriage is a 2 way street, and when I'm going out of my way to do "more" of what she needs; it is never met with her doing more of what meets my needs. She has no problem telling me what makes her happy but she never is able to step out of her comfort zone and do the things that make me happy; so sometimes it feels very one-sided.


Have you shared this with her? What's her response?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Stop slipping up and make it consistent. 

It really doesn't matter what her past is- many women list affection as a top need while many men simply don't. It might always seem to you like she needs more affection because it isn't something you can fully relate to or understand. But it is a very real need for her to be happy in the marriage- and there is nothing wrong with her or broken in her for that. 

Time to step it up- give her the consistent affection she craves. 

Many women fall in love over intimate conversation while many men don't. But if you know your spouse needs conversation, make an effort to give it to her.

Try it consistently and I bet you'll find she'd be open to having more sex.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

What if your wife decides that sex is not how she prefers to show love, and you should accept that she cooks for you as evidence that she loves you?

When you bring it up she'll try for a bit, then go back to once in a while sex, and when you bring it up she can come here and complain that nothing is enough for you. 

See how that looks?

If it's important to your wife it should be important to you.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



lifeistooshort said:


> If it's important to your wife it should be important to you.


Yes, but it sounds to me like she is trying to make him change while not doing anything at all to change herself. It works both says, and it doesn't sound to me like she thinks it should. 

She sounds like the stereotypical wife who tried to make her man be everything she wants, meanwhile just being the way she wants to be and not bending at all for HIM.

MEET IN THE MIDDLE is how it should be.
@dennisg1, have you heard of His Needs Her Needs?


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



lifeistooshort said:


> What if your wife decides that sex is not how she prefers to show love, and you should accept that she cooks for you as evidence that she loves you?
> 
> When you bring it up she'll try for a bit, then go back to once in a while sex, and when you bring it up she can come here and complain that nothing is enough for you.
> 
> ...


I see the point you make, and I feel like that "*If it's important to your wife it should be important to you.*" saying should apply to both sides of the relationship.

As a guy I would love if my wife was more sexual and I've discussed this in the past with her, so she clearly knows what my primary need is to feel loved. However, it's a not a deal breaker for me because I love and want to be with her; so if she slips and goes back to "cooking" to show me love I'm okay with that because we still will have "sex" just not as often as I would like. It's not enough for me to walk away from her because there are so many other qualities about her and the relationship that I love / admire.

However, when I slip and go back to "cooking" to show her love it makes her feel stuck / blinded to not see all the other great aspects of our relationship because I cooked her a 3 course meal when I should have cooked an 8 course meal. 

I feel like I'm willing to compromise and accept her faults for not fully meeting my needs, but she is not willing to do the same for me and my faults.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Hope1964 said:


> Yes, but it sounds to me like she is trying to make him change while not doing anything at all to change herself. It works both says, and it doesn't sound to me like she thinks it should.
> 
> She sounds like the stereotypical wife who tried to make her man be everything she wants, meanwhile just being the way she wants to be and not bending at all for HIM.
> 
> ...


Yes, I've skimmed through it but need to read the whole book.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

She has given you the biggest clue she could have, she told you that (jokingly) she feels you have done a bait and switch with affection. You showed her for the first 5 months the life she wants but then you just let that go which sort of says you stopped caring about her needs as much. 

If you don't get this sorted the resentment that is building will cause your marriage to end. 

I am always suss of people that come here and can articulate their situation very well but then not do anything about it IRL. Sometimes people don;t know what is happening in their own lives which puts them on the back foot, you on the other hand know exactly what is happening in your marriage so why are you choosing to not do anything pro active about it?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> The part that confuses me is *I do show her affectionate but it seems like it's never enough for her.* She use to joke and say she only got 5 months of the honeymoon period with me and that I tricked her into falling in love with me because I'm not that guy anymore.
> 
> These discussions usually end up with me saying I will try being more affectionate with her, and I'll try to tell her "I love her" more often, compliment her more often, do small romantic things more often.


Of course, your' being more affectionate is not working. She blame-shifted her issues on to you. You are the problem...not her.

Or course, your being more romantic is a good thing. How ev-her, she needs to listen to her own demands.

Go down to the basement. Find that old box of Grandmas kitchen utensils. In it is an ice pick. They used this to make ice chips for drinks.

You need to use this to chip away the polar ice mantel that surrounds her.

*OH GOD!! Do not do this. It is a joke!*

But, you get the picture. Grandpa got the picture by moving the 'Rabbit Ears' around. 

Do this to your wife when trying to make your picture focus in her Cerebellum. 

*Stroke her ears when you talk to her. That way her mind will focus on your words.

Not on your faults.*


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Let me tell a different story. (not a thread-jack, I promise).

Physical intimacy is the main way I feel love and its largely missing in my marriage. I've talked with my wife about this many times, and she tries - but but after a while she reverts to her old ways, and we have boring sex very rarely. She makes the attempt, but feels that I have a bottomless need for sex - that nothing is ever enough. She feels that my expectations are unrealistic. She shows me love through works and acts of kindness, and doesn't understand why I can't accept love the way she provides it. 

Of course I feel neglected, unloved. What she thinks is going way out of her way to please me, to me is not even quite up to normal. Whats more, it feels like she has to work so hard at it. Really - is having passionate sex with someone you love a few times a week such an unreasonable request? I often feel like she doesn't actually love me. Its a dark cloud that hangs over everything. 


ITS THE SAME SITUATION THAT YOU ARE IN

One person has a relationship need that the other isn't meeting. Having been on the receiving end of this, I'll say that if my wife wants something in order to feel loved, I'll do my absolute best to provide it.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



uhtred said:


> Let me tell a different story. (not a thread-jack, I promise).
> 
> Physical intimacy is the main way I feel love and its largely missing in my marriage. I've talked with my wife about this many times, and she tries - but but after a while she reverts to her old ways, and we have boring sex very rarely. She makes the attempt, but feels that I have a bottomless need for sex - that nothing is ever enough. She feels that my expectations are unrealistic. She shows me love through works and acts of kindness, and doesn't understand why I can't accept love the way she provides it.
> 
> ...


 @uhtred , thank you for sharing your story!

If you feel neglected / unloved because she shows you love differently through works and acts of kindness; have you ever felt that you could no longer stay in the relationship?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I do feel marriage is a 2 way street, and when I'm going out of my way to do "more" of what she needs; it is never met with her doing more of what meets my needs. She has no problem telling me what makes her happy but she never is able to step out of her comfort zone and do the things that make me happy; so sometimes it feels very one-sided.


*That's* the problem


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

@dennisg1

How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together doing date-like things, just the two of you without children or family or friends around? What sort of things do you do during these times?

When you say that you do acts of service to show your love to her, what are these acts of service. What did acts of service did you do in the last week?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Yes, I've thought about leaving. 

Having your needs ignore is really miserable. It makes you feel unwanted and unloved - no matter what those needs are. You can't imagine how they could love you but not do what you need. 



dennisg1 said:


> @uhtred , thank you for sharing your story!
> 
> If you feel neglected / unloved because she shows you love differently through works and acts of kindness; have you ever felt that you could no longer stay in the relationship?


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EleGirl said:


> @dennisg1
> 
> How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together doing date-like things, just the two of you without children or family or friends around? What sort of things do you do during these times?
> 
> When you say that you do acts of service to show your love to her, what are these acts of service. What did acts of service did you do in the last week?


Well currently things have not been like they use to be, however, when things were good we usually would go out for dinner/drinks on the weekend or go see a movie. Occasionally, during the week after work if she had to run errands I would meet up with her and then we would do dinner/drinks afterwards. We try to go to comedy shows or broadway plays when we could.

I'm very handy so I like doing different types of projects for her around the house; like painting, hanging new pictures for her on the wall, updating the bathroom, putting up curtains, etc. 

Besides doing the house work; which I don't mind doing, I offer to help her while she's cooking, I help her fold laundry, I run/empty the dishwasher, I always clean up after dinner, I take out the groceries for her when she goes food shopping, I run to the grocery if she forgets to buy something she needs for dinner, etc. 

I still do these things for because I like helping her out and being there for her; so it just depends what she has done the past week...since "acts of service" comes naturally to me I always try to do things for her to make her life a little easier.


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

I don't have the answer, but it's really good that you are both talking about it, voicing your needs and wanting to improve the relationship. Bravo and keep that up. I am pulling for you two and believe you'll get this figured out


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

You are not alone. I too have been under this dark cloud and it is awful.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> Well currently things have not been like they use to be, however, when things were good we usually would go out for dinner/drinks on the weekend or go see a movie. Occasionally, during the week after work if she had to run errands I would meet up with her and then we would do dinner/drinks afterwards. We try to go to comedy shows or broadway plays when we could.
> 
> I'm very handy so I like doing different types of projects for her around the house; like painting, hanging new pictures for her on the wall, updating the bathroom, putting up curtains, etc.
> 
> ...


So why are you choosing to not fix your married life? Do you consider yourself to be a selfish or selfless person by doing the acts of service?

Do you think you have any responsibility for why your life is not as you want it to be?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> Well currently things have not been like they use to be, however, when things were good we usually would go out for dinner/drinks on the weekend or go see a movie. Occasionally, during the week after work if she had to run errands I would meet up with her and then we would do dinner/drinks afterwards. We try to go to comedy shows or broadway plays when we could.
> 
> I'm very handy so I like doing different types of projects for her around the house; like painting, hanging new pictures for her on the wall, updating the bathroom, putting up curtains, etc.
> 
> ...


Is your wife a stay at home mom (SAHM), or does she have a job?


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



NickTheChemist said:


> You are not alone. I too have been under this dark cloud and it is awful.


Have you had a similar issue not meeting each other's needs? Have things gotten better or does this dark cloud still follow your relationship around?


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EleGirl said:


> Is your wife a stay at home mom (SAHM), or does she have a job?


She has a job.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been with my wife for 10 years (5 years married), this has been an ongoing discussion in our relationship and I feel it has ruined our once great relationship.
> 
> I'm not an overly affectionate guy, I would classify myself as a "acts of service" love language type of guy where I show love by doing things instead of verbally expressing my love. On the other hand, my wife is an overly affectionate woman, which I would classify her love language as "words of affirmation".


Stopping here. If you love somebody, you learn how to speak THEIR love language. You don't continue to use yours. 

My H is a gifts person. For 40 years, clothes, jewelry, perfume. None of which I give a flip about. While our house falls apart. So I'm an acts of service person, which he ignored, but I craved. 

Took us about 35 years to figure out to stop. Now I give him only clothes and cologne. He gives me things to fix the house.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> Well currently things have not been like they use to be, however, when things were good we usually would go out for dinner/drinks on the weekend or go see a movie. Occasionally, during the week after work if she had to run errands I would meet up with her and then we would do dinner/drinks afterwards. We try to go to comedy shows or broadway plays when we could.
> 
> I'm very handy so *I like *doing different types of projects for her around the house; like painting, hanging new pictures for her on the wall, updating the bathroom, putting up curtains, etc.
> 
> ...


Her LL is 'words of affirmation.'

Show me in this post where you met her need for words of affirmation. Looks to me like you met YOUR need for doing things that make YOU feel good.

What did you expect?

On another note, have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? You are teetering dangerously close over that edge by being her errand boy.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> It just feels like the affectionate I give her is never enough for her.
> 
> I do feel marriage is a 2 way street, and when I'm going out of my way to do "more" of what she needs; it is never met with her doing more of what meets my needs. She has no problem telling me what makes her happy but she never is able to step out of her comfort zone and do the things that make me happy; so sometimes it feels very one-sided.


She wants you to be a man, and by doing exactly what she's asking of you, you're putting her in control of the relationship. It may seem that you're giving her what she wants, but women don't want to be the leader in a marriage/ltr, and they will grow to resent having to fulfill that role. You're giving to get, and you resent it when it's not reciprocated. That is score keeping and attachment to outcome. That is a losing battle - trust me on this. When you give to get you are destroying the trust in a relationship. They are unauthentic actions, and they are dishonest. Take sex off the table for awhile. Try a sex moratorium. You need to build the emotional connection back without the expected outcome of sex.

And don't forget to focus on yourself. It's not healthy to lean so heavily on your marriage for happiness. What are you doing for YOU? Hobbies, working out, hanging out with guy friends, etc.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

I'm not generally a fan of popular psychology concepts, but I think "love languages" is actually valid. It takes a while to realize that what your partner sees as signs of love can be completely different from what you respond to. Your own feelings seem so natural that its difficult to imagine any other response.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

There is a difference between "I would love it if..." and "I need .... to feel loved."

One is a wish and one is a need. To grant a wish the need must be met.

Also, what exactly do you mean when you say "more sexual?" Do you mean wearing sexy lingerie and meeting you at the door? Do you mean initiating sex more frequently? Do you mean being more vocal during sex? Do you mean trying new positions of adding a bit of kink? Be as detailed as possible in your answer.


Now, as you review your highly detailed answer, ask yourself if your wife knows of all these details?

Your needs are being met but you're also being challenged. You resent that she can't feel loved in the way that you're most comfortable showing love. Too ****ing bad. Thats not what made her fall in love and NOT doing it regularly will cause her to fall out of love.

I suspect men who are affection in the beginning of the relationship aren't really being affectionate. In reality, they are staking their claim on this woman to keep her with you and keep other men away. If this kinda rings true with you start pretending there are always other men around who are interested in your wife and will only back off if you are constantly staking your claim.

In the animal kingdom, it is common for the breeding male to constantly patrol his territory to keep challengers at bay. Interesting that so many women want more affection than their husbands give, that affection means security in the love part of the relationship. I don't understand why human males find this so damn difficult.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Tex X said:


> She wants you to be a man, and by doing exactly what she's asking of you, you're putting her in control of the relationship. It may seem that you're giving her what she wants, but women don't want to be the leader in a marriage/ltr, and they will grow to resent having to fulfill that role. You're giving to get, and you resent it when it's not reciprocated. That is score keeping and attachment to outcome. That is a losing battle - trust me on this. When you give to get you are destroying the trust in a relationship. They are unauthentic actions, and they are dishonest. Take sex off the table for awhile. Try a sex moratorium. You need to build the emotional connection back without the expected outcome of sex.
> 
> And don't forget to focus on yourself. It's not healthy to lean so heavily on your marriage for happiness. What are you doing for YOU? Hobbies, working out, hanging out with guy friends, etc.


See, this is the advice you get if you're trying to put NMMNG (which, "covert contract" theory and a few other platitudes excepted, is hogwash IMO) in practice:

- do not do what she's asking you to do (you might understand and maybe fulfill her needs if you do... so don't);

- if you do, she will lose respect for you (and if you don't, she'll resent you for it. With reason.);

- stop having sex, too (so she will feel even less wanted);

- instead, stop listening to her all together and go hang out with friends (always good advice). 

LOL. Shortcut to divorce.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

This is so simple.

What if you were a player on a team? Should the coach be satisfied that you are doing enough or should he push you to be really great?

What is so wrong with what she wants? Don't be in such a hurry. What if takes decades to get the relationship you want?

Fill her "emotional tank" to the brim. Keep it filled. Keep it that way for years. The day will come when she will have forgotten whatever slight
originally caused her to need your constant reinforcement, and you will have forgotten why you were reluctant to give it freely.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> Well currently things have not been like they use to be, however, when things were good we usually would go out for dinner/drinks on the weekend or go see a movie. Occasionally, during the week after work if she had to run errands I would meet up with her and then we would do dinner/drinks afterwards. We try to go to comedy shows or broadway plays when we could.
> 
> I'm very handy so I like doing different types of projects for her around the house; like painting, hanging new pictures for her on the wall, updating the bathroom, putting up curtains, etc.
> 
> ...


My husband is like this too, and I adore him for it. He takes care of things and gets them done. 

BUT- it does not even come close to causing me to feel desire for him the way that intimate conversation and affection do. 

In the book His Needs, Her Needs, the top 4 intimate emotional needs in marriage are discussed as THE most important needs for creating romance and feelings of love for our spouse. If you're doing something nice for your spouse that could be hired out, you're not meeting an intimate emotional need.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

OP

this is a TEN YEAR relationship right?

how long ago did this start? from the beginning? i doubt it. While its true people grow and change, sometimes better and sometimes WORSE....i dont believe this is a problem you can fix, nor is ANYTHING you do going to measure up to this imagined unrealistic expectation she has. I say that because you are to the point where you could put a bow around the house, buy her flowers and candy, whatever and she wlll just view your actions as self-serving instead of being sincere.

your wifes unhappiness is an internal problem she doesn't recognize and projects this on to you. serious professional marriage counseling before this spirals completely out of control.

good luck. you are in a very tough situation.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Or he can file for divorce now and spare both of them years or decades of frustration.

Look, as others have said, this is not complicated to explain. You need to provide more affection. Consistently. For as long as you intend to remain married to your wife. So if you are not interested in providing her required level of affection for the rest of your life, then do both of you a favor and divorce now. Don't tell her you will try when you know you intend to slip back to insufficient levels. Don't tell her you love her and want to be married forever. Tell her you have no intention of meeting her need for affection but want her to stay married to you. With any luck, she will have the guts to do what you won't and file.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Jessica38 said:


> My husband is like this too, and I adore him for it. He takes care of things and gets them done.
> 
> BUT- it does not even come close to causing me to feel desire for him the way that intimate conversation and affection do.
> 
> In the book His Needs, Her Needs, the top 4 intimate emotional needs in marriage are discussed as THE most important needs for creating romance and feelings of love for our spouse. If you're doing something nice for your spouse that could be hired out, you're not meeting an intimate emotional need.


Agreed. However, to add to that, your top ENs will CHANGE and evolve as the marriage goes on. Your top ENs may reflect what's wrong with your marriage. I used to have honesty and communication as top ENs, having come off of a relationship with a cheater. But I figured out my H wouldn't cheat. But he WOULD let our house (all three of them) fall apart. And when I would ask him to fix something, he would literally look me in the eyes, not say a word, and go take a nap. So guess what my top EN is now? Acts of service.

Which is why reading HNHN is so important. It helps you learn all this stuff and then investigate your spouse to see WHAT their top ENs are and in what way you are LBing (hurting) them so you can stop those behaviors. One caveat, though: Harley doesn't talk enough about your spouse taking you for granted and you becoming a User or a Giver. BOTH of you have to be willing to meet each other's needs and if your spouse isn't, you have to have a strong boundary with consequences around that. Else meeting their Ens is a wasted effort.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

this is a great thread!

But it takes two to tango. If you are trying then she should be trying also.
I haven't read anywhere (sorry If I missed it) that she was trying to meet your need for more sex.

almost like her best defense is a good offence. Has she ever ramped it up for you sexually?

In my mind if your going outside your normal personality to meet her needs then she should reciprocate.

I feel I would naturally do more to meet her needs if she was doing more to meet my needs. But it seems that some play the sorry I can't because you aren't making the grade so your sol.



as one poster suggests just put your needs on the back burner maybe for decades and eventually she will come around. unrealistic for the average bear.


the scary part is she might cheat if the right guy blows the right amount of smoke up her .........


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> Have you had a similar issue not meeting each other's needs? Have things gotten better or does this dark cloud still follow your relationship around?


I have just begun to confront and change my nice guy syndrome and things are changing for the better. In fact, we went at it like bunnies for an hour this weekend after talking about it all :grin2:

But for a long time we were not meeting each other' needs. We have a long way to go, but we are now talking about needs and we are both trying. It's a huge change for the better snd I am very greatful to the help I've received through this forum site.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



turnera said:


> Agreed. However, to add to that, your top ENs will CHANGE and evolve as the marriage goes on. Your top ENs may reflect what's wrong with your marriage. I used to have honesty and communication as top ENs, having come off of a relationship with a cheater. But I figured out my H wouldn't cheat. But he WOULD let our house (all three of them) fall apart. And when I would ask him to fix something, he would literally look me in the eyes, not say a word, and go take a nap. So guess what my top EN is now? Acts of service.
> 
> Which is why reading HNHN is so important. It helps you learn all this stuff and then investigate your spouse to see WHAT their top ENs are and in what way you are LBing (hurting) them so you can stop those behaviors. One caveat, though: Harley doesn't talk enough about your spouse taking you for granted and you becoming a User or a Giver. BOTH of you have to be willing to meet each other's needs and if your spouse isn't, you have to have a strong boundary with consequences around that. Else meeting their Ens is a wasted effort.


Yes, top ENs change and you give a great example of the higher need for Openness and Honesty if you've been hit by infidelity. It doesn't change the fact that the top 4 intimate needs of sex, companionship, affection, and intimate conversation make the most "love deposits" for romantic love though. 

And Dr. Harley recommends spouses who aren't getting their needs met plan to separate within a certain time frame. It's longer for men, whom he found can go about 6 months before the lack of having their needs met by their spouse causes health issues, whereas many women can only do that for about 3 weeks.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EasyPartner said:


> - do not do what she's asking you to do (you might understand and maybe fulfill her needs if you do... so don't);
> 
> - if you do, she will lose respect for you (and if you don't, she'll resent you for it. With reason.);


His actions are loaded with attachment to outcome, and they are not sincere. That actually breaks down trust in a relationshiop. They do need to rebuild emotional connection, but if he's doing it just to get his old lady off his back or to get sex, then that will do more harm than good. His actions need to be real and not contrived.



EasyPartner said:


> - stop having sex, too (so she will feel even less wanted);


Maybe you don't understand the concept of a sex moratorium. It's not something he does by himself. He talks about it with his wife and lays out time frames and objectives. It eases the tension because it gets the big sex elephant out of the room for awhile. It can be a very strong stepping stone back to rebuilding emotional connection.



EasyPartner said:


> - instead, stop listening to her all together and go hang out with friends (always good advice).


I didn't say to stop listening to her altogether, but you need balance in your life. Both partners need to have their own life and own activities. Expecting your marriage to provide all the happiness in your life is overwhelming and unrealistic. I've lived this and can tell you this from first hand experience.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Tex X said:


> Maybe you don't understand the concept of a sex moratorium. It's not something he does by himself. He talks about it with his wife and lays out time frames and objectives. It eases the tension because it gets the big sex elephant out of the room for awhile. It can be a very strong stepping stone back to rebuilding emotional connection.


Especially if the woman is complaining you just want me for sex.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Anon Pink said:


> I suspect men who are affection in the beginning of the relationship aren't really being affectionate. In reality, they are staking their claim on this woman to keep her with you and keep other men away. If this kinda rings true with you start pretending there are always other men around who are interested in your wife and will only back off if you are constantly staking your claim.
> 
> In the animal kingdom, it is common for the breeding male to constantly patrol his territory to keep challengers at bay. Interesting that so many women want more affection than their husbands give, that affection means security in the love part of the relationship. I don't understand why human males find this so damn difficult.


Sure, it's the male equivalent of the bait & switch.

If you behave one way towards your SO when trying to get them to commit or when you feel they're in danger of leaving and another way when they are committed and unlikely to wander, that's a bait & switch (though it's usually unconscious).

Both men and women do it and the subject of the bait & switch varies but what they all have in common is that this is taker behavior.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Tex X said:


> His actions are loaded with attachment to outcome, and they are not sincere. That actually breaks down trust in a relationshiop. They do need to rebuild emotional connection, but if he's doing it just to get his old lady off his back or to get sex, then that will do more harm than good. His actions need to be real and not contrived.


From what the OP has posted here, I think he is very sincere and, at this time, worried about his marriage. And so are his actions, for that matter. He listens to his wife, and acts upon it, because he loves her. 

Yet, OP, correct me if I'm wrong, he gives and gives -and backslides because it doesn't come naturally to him to give so much, but he tries. It seems like she's an affirmation-craved bucket with holes in.

So WHY does she need so much affirmation? OP already spoke about her past that could explain some things... and some major IC is in order.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Let's trade. My wife complains that I show her too much love and affection. Says I smother her with love. Even trade.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

This thread is a great example of why women would do well to understand the importance of EQ when it comes to choosing a partner.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

@dennisg1, Have you considered couple's counselling?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Buddy400 said:


> Sure, it's the male equivalent of the bait & switch.
> 
> If you behave one way towards your SO when trying to get them to commit or when you feel they're in danger of leaving and another way when they are committed and unlikely to wander, that's a bait & switch (though it's usually unconscious).
> 
> Both men and women do it and the subject of the bait & switch varies but what they all have in common is that this is taker behavior.


Perhaps my negative attitude is clearing up because I don't see it as bait and switch. That implies a conscious planned behavior that is false in order to hook them.

I think for men who can't remember to be affectionate, it's because they're not threatened. Not even a little bit. 

Women receive affection as both protection and love. Remove affection and you remove protection and love. 

Again, pretend there is another 6 pointed buck in the next room...all the time.


Annnnd you're welcome.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

This is a really good thread it is now bookmarked. I was explaining issues like this to my son and how complicated marriage can be, when parties do not work together. Make sure you understand D, the biggest problem is you both don't support each other. As you can see, there's a ton of "do what she wants no matter what" and a bunch of balking at she should do the same.

It isn't about "who did what first" and"who did more wrong," you need to figure out why you don't meet each other needs or support the other when you slip.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Anon Pink said:


> Perhaps my negative attitude is clearing up because I don't see it as bait and switch. That implies a conscious planned behavior that is false in order to hook them.
> 
> I think for men who can't remember to be affectionate, it's because they're not threatened. Not even a little bit.
> 
> ...


I don't think that most women who bait & switch regarding sex do it consciously either.

Maybe we need different terms for conscious and unconscious baiting and switching? :smile2:


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EasyPartner said:


> From what the OP has posted here, I think he is very sincere and, at this time, worried about his marriage. And so are his actions, for that matter. He listens to his wife, and acts upon it, because he loves her.
> 
> Yet, OP, correct me if I'm wrong, he gives and gives -and backslides because it doesn't come naturally to him to give so much, but he tries. It seems like she's an affirmation-craved bucket with holes in.
> 
> So WHY does she need so much affirmation? OP already spoke about her past that could explain some things... and some major IC is in order.


Is that also the answer for a husband who doesn't get enough physical affection as well?

Get some major IC to figure out why he needs so much sex?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Anon Pink said:


> Perhaps my negative attitude is clearing up because I don't see it as bait and switch. That implies a conscious planned behavior that is false in order to hook them.
> 
> I think for men who can't remember to be affectionate, it's because they're not threatened. Not even a little bit.
> 
> ...


AP

Your IQ went up ten points with this post {in my eyes}. It was already high to begin with.

I thought women do not count or measure bucks appendages. 

That buck in the next room.....I will stop here....

The eye in the center of my forehead blinked just once...as a warning.....
It saw a BAN so swift, my head standeth still, while my torso in the next county, doth be flung, all in a millisecond. All to the Red Queens delight.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Anon Pink said:


> Perhaps my negative attitude is clearing up because I don't see it as bait and switch. That implies a conscious planned behavior that is false in order to hook them.
> 
> I think for men who can't remember to be affectionate, *it's because they're not threatened. Not even a little bit. *
> 
> ...


So if the OP's wife came here on TAM, what would you advise her to do to get him to be more affectionate? Make him jealous? 

I think this is likely true, but it kind of sucks! I have a friend who has this same theory and she's purposely making male friends to get her husband's attention (and it's working). But who wants to do that forever? I mean, it seems kind of tacky and desperate to me, to need to get attention from other men to prove to her husband "she's still got it."


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

I don't know @Jessica38

My husband isn't at all threatened by other men looking, or talking, or even flirting. He literally will step back to watch the show. And he swears it's not his kink.... what do you think?  affectionwise. He has never been affectionate, ever. All affection was me and sometimes he even backed away. We've got several pictures of me leaning in to him and he is backing away...even at our wedding. I never saw this for what it was until about 10 years ago. So...ha, my IQ is in the pretty damn stupid range.

It's too late now. And now he almost remembers to sort of be affectionate. Pffft, day late and a dollar short buddyboy.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



> These discussions usually end up with me saying I will try being more affectionate with her, and I'll try to tell her "I love her" more often, compliment her more often, do small romantic things more often, etc. and I do these things for her but I tend to slip back to my normal/natural way I show affection towards her; which is probably not as often as she would like.


I didn't get to read all the replies yet, but this is the part OP that highly concerns me. It sounds like you have a woman that clearly expresses to you what she needs. When you spend years yo-yoing, doing better, then going back to your old ways, she is probably distancing herself every time more and more. Then one day, she may give up. 

I understand that it is not your natural thing. If you can't supply her that on a consistent basis, be honest and tell her that. Don't keep promising her something and then not following through. I think that will bite you in the ass much worse. Take it from a XW whose XH was sure she would never leave. He did what you described in regard to our issues, and after 15 years of him improving for two weeks then going straight back to his old ways, I left.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Buddy400 said:


> Is that also the answer for a husband who doesn't get enough physical affection as well?
> 
> Get some major IC to figure out why he needs so much sex?


If he's a raging sex addict, it may very well be the answer. 

I like Harley's list of needs; it covers pretty much any normal person wants in a relationship. Some needs are a higher priority then others, and partners should notice/know/attend to these needs. Excellent framework.

But what if one spouses needs become unreasonable? What if the wants/expectations become so irrealistic, what the other spouse does is never enough in this regard?

Examples are easy to think of...

Affection (ask the OP)
Sexual Fulfillment (cfr supra) 
Conversation (so much is wanted the other spouse never has a quiet moment for himself anymore)
Recreational Companionship (idem)
Honesty and Openness (tell me the nitty gritty of every single thought you might have or I'll be cross with you)
Physical Attractiveness (if you don't look like a supermodel every day, I'll resent you for it)
Financial Support (better bring home the big $ or else)
Domestic Support (you can't even build a house with your own hands, you loser)
Family Commitment (and give up all your other interests)
Admiration (prove you love me and stroke my ego 24/7) 

So yes, if your needs are over the top, it may be a good idea to ask yourself why. 

Caveat: this may or may not apply to OP's situation. The truth is probably in the middle there: her wanting (a lot?) more than average, and him being less affectionate by nature.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



MrsHolland said:


> This thread is a great example of why women would do well to understand the importance of EQ when it comes to choosing a partner.


it goes both ways.
shouldn't women be aware of the importance to sex for her man and how that helps him be more emotionally vested.

pretty hard for anyone man or woman to be trying to meet emotional needs when your rejected repeatedly. Its too easy to say hes got a low EQ when theres a lot more in play causing the rift.


which came first the chicken or the egg.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Spicy said:


> I didn't get to read all the replies yet, but this is the part OP that highly concerns me. It sounds like you have a woman that clearly expresses to you what she needs. When you spend years yo-yoing, doing better, then going back to your old ways, she is probably distancing herself every time more and more. Then one day, she may give up.
> 
> I understand that it is not your natural thing. If you can't supply her that on a consistent basis, be honest and tell her that. Don't keep promising her something and then not following through. I think that will bite you in the ass much worse. Take it from a XW whose XH was sure she would never leave. He did what you described in regard to our issues, and after 15 years of him improving for two weeks then going straight back to his old ways, I left.


QFT. I think this ties in right along with @anonPink's post about how some men won't step it up until they feel threatened. This is a major point Dr. Harley makes with Marriage Builders, that a woman who isn't getting her needs met in the marriage should plan to separate. It's her best chance at getting the marriage she wants, though of course you risk losing it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Well, to be fair, he doesn't tell women to just up and leave. He says to try to FIX it and then, after quite a while of trying, to THEN start preparing to leave.

But IMO, EVERY couple should be very aware that either of them could leave at any time if the partner stops meeting their needs. That complacency is a killer.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> it goes both ways.
> shouldn't women be aware of the importance to sex for her man and how that helps him be more emotionally vested.
> 
> pretty hard for anyone man or woman to be trying to meet emotional needs when your rejected repeatedly. Its too easy to say hes got a low EQ when theres a lot more in play causing the rift.
> ...


When the couple was first dating, chances are they spent time meeting other emotional needs to create an environment of desire for sex, including intimate conversation, affection, and recreational companionship. So I'd argue that these needs are important to meet first, if the couple is no longer in love. These needs restore feelings of love, which makes sex much more enjoyable for many women (and likely many men too).


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



turnera said:


> Well, to be fair, he doesn't tell women to just up and leave. He says to try to FIX it and then, after quite a while of trying, to THEN start preparing to leave.


Absolutely, and he makes the point that a spouse can do both- express their needs and give their spouse time to meet them while planning to separate. His stance is that unconditional love hurts marriages.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Jessica38 said:


> When the couple was first dating, chances are they spent time meeting other emotional needs to create an environment of desire for sex, including intimate conversation, affection, and recreational companionship. So I'd argue that these needs are important to meet first, if the couple is no longer in love. These needs restore feelings of love, which makes sex much more enjoyable for many women (and likely many men too).


bottom line one partner has to eat **** and jump hoops and hope the other partner feels love again.

that a tough row to hoe.

when resentment has creeped in its almost impossible.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Buddy400 said:


> I don't think that most women who bait & switch regarding sex do it consciously either.
> 
> Maybe we need different terms for conscious and unconscious baiting and switching? :smile2:


I agree that most do not bait and switch consciously in the sense that they consciously intend to cut back on sex the day after the wedding.

However, I do think many are well aware that the guy is not the best looking or best in bed of their various boyfriends, and in many cases that he is significantly deficient in those areas. They tell themselves that they will be able to tolerate this deficiency since the guy brings so many other good qualities to the table. I have no problem with what they tell themselves. But what are they telling the guy? That he is so kind and caring and nice that she doesn't really mind how bad he is in bed? Does she tell him that he needs to up his game in the bedroom if he wants her to remain interested long term? That he needs to hit the gym because what he is doing for her doesn't really do it for her? Or does she lie and tell him it is great and she loves him so much that it makes the sex great even if he isn't the most impressive physical specimen?

Honesty is the best policy. Before marriage.

Guys are just as bad. They lie through their teeth to get girls to have sex with them. Not saying men are better then women. Nope, many men are disgusting sexist pigs. But many women are just as deceitful in furtherance of getting a guy to the altar. Both kinds of deceitful behavior are abominable.

In the same vein, as I said before regarding OP, be honest. If OP can't provide his wife's desired level of affection pretty much every day for the rest of their lives together, he should tell her that. he shouldn't pretend he is going to be able to provide it if he knows deep down that he can't. Just as his wife shouldn't lie about her ability or willingness to provide sex regularly. If neither can provide their spouse's most important emotional need on a regular basis, their marriage is going to be unhappy for both of them as long as it lasts. Up to them how long that is. But pretending the problem is resolvable just delays the inevitable. And in this case delay increases the cost and pain and reduces the time available to find a more compatible partner..


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Jessica38 said:


> Absolutely, and he makes the point that a spouse can do both- express their needs and give their spouse time to meet them while planning to separate. *His stance is that unconditional love hurts marriages*.


I think it is what makes mine worthwhile.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Jessica38 said:


> When the couple was first dating, chances are they spent time meeting other emotional needs to create an environment of desire for sex, including intimate conversation, affection, and recreational companionship. So I'd argue that these needs are important to meet first, if the couple is no longer in love. These needs restore feelings of love, which makes sex much more enjoyable for many women (and likely many men too).


you forget the spark at the beginning. the attraction to each other. But if you have been rejected over and over again then you start to realize maybe there never was a spark on the other side and then you don't want to give all the power to the partner who dosen't really desire you in the first place.

I don't want to be with a partner who does not have a desire to be with me. if Jumping through her hoops is the way for her to desire me then no thanks. its like them saying I only desire you if you do this or that but physically I could care less.

when first dating theres butterflies you see someone who you think is pretty,hot,sexy at least to you and you want to meet them and they in return want to meet you mutual attraction.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



jld said:


> I think it is what makes mine worthwhile.


only if its reciprocal.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> you forget the spark at the beginning. the attraction to each other. But if you have been rejected over and over again then you start to realize maybe there never was a spark on the other side and then you don't want to give all the power to the partner who dosen't really desire you in the first place.
> 
> I don't want to be with a partner who does not have a desire to be with me. if Jumping through her hoops is the way for her to desire me then no thanks. its like them saying I only desire you if you do this or that but physically I could care less.
> 
> when first dating theres butterflies you see someone who you think is pretty,hot,sexy at least to you and you want to meet them and they in return want to meet you mutual attraction.


You forget that many women fall in love over intimate conversation and affection. THAT is the spark for many women. And couples fall out of love all the time in long-term marriages. The most successful long-term marriages are the ones that can pull through that and restore the feelings of love. To give up when you move from in love to in like would be missing out on the opportunity to grow as a spouse over time.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



jld said:


> I think it is what makes mine worthwhile.


Tell that to a wife or husband who is not getting their intimate needs met for years and whose spouse shows no interest in making them a priority. Neglect is a top reason why women leave men.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> bottom line one partner has to eat **** and jump hoops and hope the other partner feels love again.
> 
> that a tough row to hoe.
> 
> when resentment has creeped in it's almost impossible.


Typically, the more unhappy person goes looking for help like here or at MB. And learn. And then decide to act to see if things change. Took me a couple of years to follow MB mantra and do what Harley said. I did feel a little like 'why do I have to do it?' but I did it anyway cos I was miserable. Turns out he was miserable, too. As soon as I started focusing on his ENs and not LBing him, he leapt at the opportunity to meet my Ens.

Hard to remember sometimes that your spouse is a human, too, walking around with their OWN set of resentments.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> you forget the spark at the beginning. the attraction to each other. But if you have been rejected over and over again then you start to realize maybe there never was a spark on the other side and then you don't want to give all the power to the partner who dosen't really desire you in the first place.
> 
> I don't want to be with a partner who does not have a desire to be with me. if Jumping through her hoops is the way for her to desire me then no thanks. its like them saying I only desire you if you do this or that but physically I could care less.
> 
> when first dating theres butterflies you see someone who you think is pretty,hot,sexy at least to you and you want to meet them and they in return want to meet you mutual attraction.


You call it jumping through hoops.

Let's look at a scenario. Couple dates, spends a lot of time together, falls in love and marries. By the end of the second year of marriage the guy stops spending time with his wife. He either goes out with friends, is playing computer games, or otherwise keeps himself busy. Thus he has no time left to spend with her. She tells him that she needs him to spend time with her.... she wants to talk with him, to go out on dates, etc. So for a week or two he does this then he falls back into his pattern of not spending time with her.

Over time, she loses interest in him sexually. She tells him that she needs for him to spend time with her.

The way I interpret what you wrote, she should want him sexually no matter what he does. That she should want to have sex with her husband even if that is the only time he pays her any attention.... after all, if she needs to spend time with him to keep her emotional connection to him... that's her trying to get him to jump through hoops.

Is that what you are saying?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> bottom line one partner has to eat **** and jump hoops and hope the other partner feels love again.
> 
> that a tough row to hoe.
> 
> when resentment has creeped in its almost impossible.


I hear you. Resentment makes everything hard in marriage, and it kills marriages. I still think it is easier to engage in some conversation and affection when you don't really feel it than it is to have passionate sex when you don't really feel it, though. It's also safer for the marriage to start there. Aversions to sex can set in if a spouse does it repeatedly when they aren't feeling it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I'm very handy so I like doing different types of projects for her around the house; like painting, hanging new pictures for her on the wall, updating the bathroom, putting up curtains, etc.
> 
> Besides doing the house work; which I don't mind doing, I offer to help her while she's cooking, I help her fold laundry, I run/empty the dishwasher, I always clean up after dinner, I take out the groceries for her when she goes food shopping, I run to the grocery if she forgets to buy something she needs for dinner, etc.
> 
> I still do these things for because I like helping her out and being there for her; so it just depends what she has done the past week...since "acts of service" comes naturally to me I always try to do things for her to make her life a little easier.


You work. Your wife works.

Why do you think that doing some housework, 'helping' her cook, folding laundry, run/emptying the dishwasher, cleaning up after dinner, taking the groceries out of the car, and running to the store are acts of serve done for her?

Are these not just as much your responsibility as hers?

Is part of that laundry your laundry? 

Wouldn't you be doing all these things if you were not married to her?

These are not acts of service. 50% of all the work in the household is your responsibility.

Do you consider the things that she does acts of service to you? Like when she washes and folds your laundry? When she cooks your dinner, goes shopping for your groceries.

This is why your 'acts of service' are not resonating with her as acts of love. It's because you would be doing most of them whether she was with you or not. You might even be doing more if she was not there... like you would be doing your own grocery shopping, washing your own clothing.

Your doing things like painting...... how many hours a month do you spend in chores, and things like painting, vs what she spends doing things like grocery shopping, laundry, and everything else she does.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

@EleGirl

You said it!

"But I helped you fold my clothes and I helped you cook my food and I helped you clean the house I live in...."


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EleGirl said:


> You work. Your wife works.
> 
> Why do you think that doing some housework, 'helping' her cook, folding laundry, run/emptying the dishwasher, cleaning up after dinner, taking the groceries out of the car, and running to the store are acts of serve done for her?
> 
> ...


Heck, I barely work and my husband helps with these things (except laundry) because it's HIS house too and he WANTS to take care of it. In no way does he consider changing the light bulbs (a weekly job it seems in our home) and doing yard work "romance." That would be like me telling him that folding his underwear and socks is my way of showing him "passionate intimacy." :scratchhead:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EleGirl said:


> You work. Your wife works.
> 
> Why do you think that doing some housework, 'helping' her cook, folding laundry, run/emptying the dishwasher, cleaning up after dinner, taking the groceries out of the car, and running to the store are acts of serve done for her?
> 
> ...


Huh. *slaps own wrist*

Completely missed that.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EleGirl said:


> You work. Your wife works.
> 
> Why do you think that doing some housework, 'helping' her cook, folding laundry, run/emptying the dishwasher, cleaning up after dinner, taking the groceries out of the car, and running to the store are acts of serve done for her?
> 
> ...


I do consider these things to be "acts of service" examples, but as I've learned it doesn't have the same impact if my wife's love language is "words of affirmation".

However, I agree with what @turnera and @Jessica38 wrote about how ENs will change and evolve. I feel like love languages can change depending on what your spouse is lacking the most of; you might have a "words of affirmation" primary love language in one relationship and something totally different in another relationship.

In the end, I feel like we both have done a poor job of meeting each other's needs. I think the communication is good in regards to expressing what our needs are but if then she is not making an effort to meet my needs and I'm not making an effort to meet her needs we will always be in this same situation.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Jessica38 said:


> So if the OP's wife came here on TAM, what would you advise her to do to get him to be more affectionate? Make him jealous?
> 
> I think this is likely true, but it kind of sucks! I have a friend who has this same theory and she's purposely making male friends to get her husband's attention (and it's working). But who wants to do that forever? I mean, it seems kind of tacky and desperate to me, to need to get attention from other men to prove to her husband* "she's still got it."*


Shhhh!

Don't wake that She Avatar up...She's a lookin' for me. She's got a rollin' pin a-swingin' fer me 'ead.

I have been sitting in O'Flaherty's Tavern waiting for her to join the Sandman in her nightly mud wrestling contest.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I do consider these things to be "acts of service" examples, but as I've learned it doesn't have the same impact if my wife's love language is "words of affirmation".


Why do you think that everything having to do with the home, like housework, dishes, cooking, unloading groceries, folding laundry are your wife's job? Since you think that you are doing acts of service when you clean your own stuff, you clearly think it's her job and you are helping her. It's not her job.... it's 50% your job too. Doing your own stuff is not an act of service for your wife.


Of course these things don't have the same impact as "words of affirmation" and spending quality time with your wife. There is a very good reason why.... why would you cleaning up your own dishes or folding your own laundry make her feel loved?

Humans are chemical engines. That means that our feelings are created based on the chemicals that our brains produce and uptake. Love is a chemical response based on the production and uptake of dopamine, oxytocin, etc. These are the feel-good and bonding chemicals. 

When she hears 'words of affirmation", it causes her brain to produce and uptake those chemical/hormones. That makes her feel in-love. When you two spend quality time together, it does the same thing.

Sex is another thing that causes our bodies to produce and uptake those chemical/hormones.

Basically there two kinds of intimacy, sexual and non-sexual. For most women it takes a certain amount of non-sexual intimacy to want to have sex with their partner. It's the non-sexual intimacy that causes the creation and update of the feel-good/bonding hormones. 



dennisg1 said:


> However, I agree with what @turnera and @Jessica38 wrote about how ENs will change and evolve. I feel like love languages can change depending on what your spouse is lacking the most of; you might have a "words of affirmation" primary love language in one relationship and something totally different in another relationship.


I'm not sure that the emotional needs differ for a person in different relationships. I think that a person's needs can be met (or not met) to a different degree in different relationships. So with if she were married to a guy who gave your wife all the words of affirmation that she needed, but he did not meet some other need at all she would complain about the unmet need. But she still has the same set of needs.



dennisg1 said:


> In the end, I feel like we both have done a poor job of meeting each other's needs. I think the communication is good in regards to expressing what our needs are but if then she is not making an effort to meet my needs and I'm not making an effort to meet her needs we will always be in this same situation.


If you want this marriage to last, one of you has to make the first move. You are the one who is here on TAM, so you are the one who we are going to be telling to make the first move and meet her needs. After all we cannot talk to her.

Read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Get her to read them too. And then the two of you do the work that they suggest.

This issue you have is really pretty easy to fix. 

You say that you forget to do things that she likes? Well put them on your calendar, remind yourself to do them.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> it goes both ways.
> shouldn't women be aware of the importance to sex for her man and how that helps him be more emotionally vested.
> 
> pretty hard for anyone man or woman to be trying to meet emotional needs when your rejected repeatedly. Its too easy to say hes got a low EQ when theres a lot more in play causing the rift.
> ...


yes it should go both ways. Yes men and women should be aware of how sex makes them emotionally vested in the relationship, that is all standard common sense.

The OP stated that his wife now jokes about how she got 5 months of what she needed with affection, that is pretty poor form on his behalf. So which came first, chicken or egg? It doesn't really matter to any of us, it is the OPs life and he seems to be choosing to ignore what he needs to do in order to give his wife what she wants and needs. His choice will be his failure.

So I stand by what I said, it is very important for women to understand the importance of high EQ when it comes to choosing a partner and this case is a very good example of how easily a marriage can go wrong without it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I do consider these things to be "acts of service" examples,


So when she cooks dinner for the family, is that an act of service? What if YOU cook dinner for the family? Is THAT an act of service?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EleGirl said:


> You call it jumping through hoops.
> 
> Let's look at a scenario. Couple dates, spends a lot of time together, falls in love and marries. By the end of the second year of marriage the guy stops spending time with his wife. He either goes out with friends, is playing computer games, or otherwise keeps himself busy. Thus he has no time left to spend with her. She tells him that she needs him to spend time with her.... she wants to talk with him, to go out on dates, etc. So for a week or two he does this then he falls back into his pattern of not spending time with her.
> 
> ...


No thats not what I'm saying. 

But if there using sex as a weapon then all goes down the drain. If there unhappy they should just leave


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



MrsHolland said:


> yes it should go both ways. Yes men and women should be aware of how sex makes them emotionally vested in the relationship, that is all standard common sense.
> 
> The OP stated that his wife now jokes about how she got 5 months of what she needed with affection, that is pretty poor form on his behalf. So which came first, chicken or egg? It doesn't really matter to any of us, it is the OPs life and he seems to be choosing to ignore what he needs to do in order to give his wife what she wants and needs. His choice will be his failure.
> 
> So I stand by what I said, it is very important for women to understand the importance of high EQ when it comes to choosing a partner and this case is a very good example of how easily a marriage can go wrong without it.


Are you saying everybody has standard common scence?

That a dismissive statement. 

Maybe her expectations of how much affection he should give is unrealistic. Just like a man expecting a blow job everymorning would be unrealistic for most.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



turnera said:


> So when she cooks dinner for the family, is that an act of service? What if YOU cook dinner for the family? Is THAT an act of service?


Is working every day to prodide for a sahm an act of service?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> Is working every day to prodide for a sahm an act of service?


She's not a SAHM.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> No thats not what I'm saying.
> 
> But if there using sex as a weapon then all goes down the drain. If there unhappy they should just leave


Usually, people stay for a while even if they are unhappy trying to work things out. And during that time, the desire for sex by one or both parties tends to decrease. It's often not using sex as a weapon. It's simply a pretty natural reaction to not want sex with a person who refuses to meet some significant emotional needs even after you've tried talking about it and tried to work it out.

And it often does lead to leaving the marriage... once all hope is exhausted.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> Is working every day to prodide for a sahm an act of service?


His wife is not a SAHM.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



chillymorn69 said:


> Is working every day to prodide for a sahm an act of service?


Working every day to provide for a SAHM is as much an act of service and the things that a SAHM does every day to take care of her husband, the home, the children, etc.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



EleGirl said:


> Why do you think that everything having to do with the home, like housework, dishes, cooking, unloading groceries, folding laundry are your wife's job? Since you think that you are doing acts of service when you clean your own stuff, you clearly think it's her job and you are helping her. It's not her job.... it's 50% your job too. Doing your own stuff is not an act of service for your wife.
> 
> Of course these things don't have the same impact as "words of affirmation" and spending quality time with your wife. There is a very good reason why.... why would you cleaning up your own dishes or folding your own laundry make her feel loved?


All I'm saying is someone who needs "acts of service", these could be viewed as acts of service" to that person. I'm sure there are a lot of spouses out there that don't take the 50% split with maintaining a household; so if the other spouse does things they normally don't do I view this as an "act of service". I don't think there is a clear definition of what constitutes an "act of service" and it depends on the individual. Even in the "5 Love Languages" book they list household examples as being "acts of service".



> By acts of service, I mean doing things you know your spouse would like you to do. You seek to please her by serving her, to express your love for her by doing things for her. So it was with Doug and Kate, whom we met in the last chapter. Such actions as cooking a meal, setting a table, emptying the dishwasher, vacuuming, changing the baby’s diaper, picking up a prescription, keeping the car in operating condition, paying the bills, trimming the shrubs, walking the dog, and dealing with landlords and insurance companies are all acts of service. They require thought, planning, time, effort, and energy. If done with a positive spirit, they are indeed expressions of love.
> 
> Chapman, Gary D. The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts (pp. 91-92). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.


I'm in agreement with you that "words of affirmation" is what my wife needs so "acts of service" isn't her primary need but she appreciates when I do these things for her. However, I don't agree that you are dismissing these examples as not being "acts of service" because this depends on the individual.

My wife and I share different responsibilites to maintain the household; so there are things she takes the lead on and other things that I take the lead on. So even though she doesn't expect me to help her with her share of the responsibilities, I still do. 



turnera said:


> So when she cooks dinner for the family, is that an act of service? What if YOU cook dinner for the family? Is THAT an act of service?


Yes, I view this as an "act of service". I always thank her for cooking and tell her how much I appreciate what she does. If my wife cooks all the time because she enjoys it but then there are days where she is tired, I say, honey don't worry about dinner tonight relax you had a long day, I'll cook; if that pleases her and makes her happy I view that as an "act of service".


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> All I'm saying is someone who needs "acts of service", these could be viewed as acts of service" to that person. I'm sure there are a lot of spouses out there that don't take the 50% split with maintaining a household; so if the other spouse does things they normally don't do I view this as an "act of service". I don't think there is a clear definition of what constitutes an "act of service" and it depends on the individual. Even in the "5 Love Languages" book they list household examples as being "acts of service".


Published doesn't mean verified truth. 

Household help is only an act of service when that particular task is agreed upon as her job. For instance my husband told me very early in our marriage that he would never clean the bathroom because he absolutely hated that job. This didn't bother me because I was always fastidious about keeping a clean bathroom. So we agreed that cleaning the bathroom would alsways be my job. And he has never once cleaned a toilet, sink, or tub in 32 years. Again, I'm okay with this. But he's not a slob and wipes the sink after shaving.

So helping her do laundry, dishes, vacuum...NOT ACTS OF SERVICE!

My husband usually brings me coffee every morning. Of course I like it. But I don't feel unloved when I wake up and have to get my own coffee. Because acts of service, though thoughtful and appreciated, do not speak to me of love. They speak to me of consideration, but not love.





> I'm in agreement with you that "words of affirmation" is what my wife needs so "acts of service" isn't her primary need but she appreciates when I do these things for her. However, I don't agree that you are dismissing these examples as not being "acts of service" because this depends on the individual.


You are trying to rationalize why it's okay for you to feel like she should feel loved because you unloaded the dishwasher.

Helping with household tasks are NOT ACTS OF SERVICE!!!!!! Okay? Got it? Not acts of service!



> My wife and I share different responsibilites to maintain the household; so there are things she takes the lead on and other things that I take the lead on. So even though she doesn't expect me to help her with her share of the responsibilities, I still do.


This means you are considerate. It doesn't mean you are showing her love in a way that is meaningful to her. 

Help with household tasks are not acts of service that show love.





> Yes, I view this as an "act of service". I always thank her for cooking and tell her how much I appreciate what she does. If my wife cooks all the time because she enjoys it but then there are days where she is tired, I say, honey don't worry about dinner tonight relax you had a long day, I'll cook; if that pleases her and makes her happy I view that as an "act of service".


You view having someone prepare your meals is an act of service because to YOU acts of service show love. 

I love to bake and do so frequently. However, if my husband baked something for me it would not feel like he was showing me love. Mostly because acts of service do not speak to me of love and because whatever he made would probably be aweful and I'd have to pretend to really like it which would mostly piss me off because if I didn't pretend to really like it he would feel unappreciated.

See how that works?

To him acts of service are meaningful. To him acts of service feel like love. To him having his meals prepared and fresh baked goods to munch feels like he is loved. To him, showing effort in those same areas feels like he is showing his love. To him, if I fail to be appreciative I am being selfish.

Stop trying to rationalize household help as showing your love. It's not. Would you think that cleaning your bathroom would impress a date with how loving you are?

If you were dating your wife, how would you show her that you care about her?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Pointless for us to argue over what is or is not an Act of Service. His wife is not asking for Acts of Service. That is his love language, not hers.

She wants Affection. He admits he does not provide it regularly. So it is time for him to fish or cut bait. Provide it or leave. Provide it and see if she provides more sex. If not, keep providing Affection (even without the sex) until he can't any longer. Then file for divorce. Maybe he has already reached the point where he cannot provide Affection. Then it is already time to file for divorce.

This stuff is not hard to analyze. It is hard to implement the advice. I am as guilty as anyone of NOT doing what I should have done. If implementing the advice were easy, we would all be doing it and there would be fewer of us with endlessly long threads on TAM.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Right. The point here, dennis, is do you want your wife to feel loved or not? 

If you do, then it's up to YOU to figure out WHAT makes her feel loved and give her THAT? 

How are you doing on that front?

Obviously, house chores is not it. I would GLADLY do 100% of the chores if my H would just meet my one need - taking care of the house.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

maybe just plain incompatibility.

you don't or can't meet her needs and she can't or won't meet your needs.

call it a day or accept it.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Anon Pink said:


> Published doesn't mean verified truth.
> 
> Household help is only an act of service when that particular task is agreed upon as her job. For instance my husband told me very early in our marriage that he would never clean the bathroom because he absolutely hated that job. This didn't bother me because I was always fastidious about keeping a clean bathroom. So we agreed that cleaning the bathroom would alsways be my job. And he has never once cleaned a toilet, sink, or tub in 32 years. Again, I'm okay with this. But he's not a slob and wipes the sink after shaving.
> 
> ...


I feel like this is getting off topic, I was asked what I did that I thought were examples of "acts of service" and I listed them. I never said that my wife should feel loved because I do these things because I know her love language is "words of affirmation". I'm not trying to rationalize that my wife should feel loved because I do household work because this is not her love language. 

However, excluding my relationship I still believe household tasks can be viewed as "acts of service" it just depends on the individual and if their love language is "acts of service". 



Holdingontoit said:


> Pointless for us to argue over what is or is not an Act of Service. His wife is not asking for Acts of Service. That is his love language, not hers.
> 
> She wants Affection. He admits he does not provide it regularly. So it is time for him to fish or cut bait. Provide it or leave. Provide it and see if she provides more sex. If not, keep providing Affection (even without the sex) until he can't any longer. Then file for divorce. Maybe he has already reached the point where he cannot provide Affection. Then it is already time to file for divorce.
> 
> This stuff is not hard to analyze. It is hard to implement the advice. I am as guilty as anyone of NOT doing what I should have done. If implementing the advice were easy, we would all be doing it and there would be fewer of us with endlessly long threads on TAM.





turnera said:


> Right. The point here, dennis, is do you want your wife to feel loved or not?
> 
> If you do, then it's up to YOU to figure out WHAT makes her feel loved and give her THAT?
> 
> ...


Thank you @Holdingontoit @turnera

Like you said it's easy to analyze but harder to implement. We have a counseling session setup in a couple of days, and I just feel like a disappointment that I couldn't be more verbal/vocal with "words of affirmation".

I don't even know what to say to her at counseling because I feel like somewhat of a failure for not fully meeting her needs, or actually not realizing how important these things are to her. I'm sure she has built up resentment towards me for not being able to do it consistantly and slipping back; so I don't know if we are to far passed the point of no return.

I want to say that I'm sorry I'm not able to be consistant but that I will never stop trying, but I don't know if that would be enough for her at this point.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Wow this could be written by my husband. I have issues like your wife that leave me feeling unloved and needing more from my husband than he is able to provide. And he is very secure and requires very little compared to me. 

All I can say is... I constantly complained to my husband throughout the years and he would do good for a while then go back to his normal behavior leaving me feeling unloved. I'm the end.... the resentment set in, he felt like no matter what he does he can't make me happy, and he convinced himself that I don't love who he really is and he tries his hardest and still I am unhappy. So therefore we are about to get divorced. He has basically checked out of the marriage and stopped trying because to him what is the point. 

My point of view... of course I wish I did things differently. I wish I shut my mouth. I know that my issues of not feeling loved are mine, and I shouldn't expect my husband to fulfill them all. However, it is important that he does make an effort to make me feel loved. I think effort is the key word, effort makes me feel loved from him. 

Your wife needs to be careful Bc she will ruin a good marriage, just like I did. You need to still put effort in the marriage but her expectations need to be realistic. You need to talk to her about her constant complaining and how it really affects you. I wish my husband did this, instead he bottled it up and kept trying to make me happy while resenting me inside. That's why he finally said forget it, I'm done trying.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> Like you said it's easy to analyze but harder to implement. We have a counseling session setup in a couple of days, and I just feel like a disappointment that I couldn't be more verbal/vocal with "words of affirmation".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Man I swear this sounds just like my husband. My husband ended up feeling so bad and guilty and like a failure that he couldn't make his own wife happy and it ended up making him miserable and resentful to me. And my point of view was like... if you loved me... and it was a really wrong way to look at things.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

You have to understand many men and women believe in "happy wife, happy life." Seriously, go back and read the responses with this is mind. Trust me, you'll look at the advice with a better understanding. No, I am not saying it is right or wrong, just telling you to look at the responses in a different light. One thing I will say is, you brought up sex and it sets the tone you are now experiencing.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



katiecrna said:


> Wow this could be written by my husband. I have issues like your wife that leave me feeling unloved and needing more from my husband than he is able to provide. And he is very secure and requires very little compared to me.
> 
> All I can say is... I constantly complained to my husband throughout the years and he would do good for a while then go back to his normal behavior leaving me feeling unloved. I'm the end.... the resentment set in, he felt like no matter what he does he can't make me happy, and he convinced himself that I don't love who he really is and he tries his hardest and still I am unhappy. So therefore we are about to get divorced. He has basically checked out of the marriage and stopped trying because to him what is the point.
> 
> ...





katiecrna said:


> Man I swear this sounds just like my husband. My husband ended up feeling so bad and guilty and like a failure that he couldn't make his own wife happy and it ended up making him miserable and resentful to me. And my point of view was like... if you loved me... and it was a really wrong way to look at things.


 @katiecrna thank you for sharing your story, it's very interesting seeing your point of view.

Just wondering, what were some of the things that you asked for that he would then go back to his normal behavior?

Yes, my wife has has said the ...if you loved me, why don't you do these things... line to me before, and as a husband it just makes me feel like crap and I'm still not good enough; it's like a loaded question.

Were other aspects of your marriage good?

You say your husband built up resentment towards you, but did you ever build up resentment towards him because of him not meeting your needs? Did you view these needs as a big enough of an issue to be a deal-breaker even if the rest of your marriage was good?

Thank you!


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> @katiecrna thank you for sharing your story, it's very interesting seeing your point of view.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think that just overall I felt like I needed more from him. More "love". More affection, I wanted him to support me more. My expectations were always so high for him and he could never meet them and I ended up feeling disappointed all the time. Which I know wasn't fair. But I think overall I just needed more effort from him in all aspects. 

In hindsight my marriage was really good. I wish I knew it then but living through it I always felt like it could be better. In the beginning I didnt feel resentment or felt like divorce was the way to go. But when he pulled back from me, stopped trying, stopped putting in effort... then I got resentful, then I thought divorce a option. 

There is a big difference between your marriage and mine. You recognize it now and want to fix it. Your also communicating how you feel to your wife. In my marriage my husband never complained, never told me how he honestly felt. And he kept trying to make me happy, and I wasn't and I didn't realize the damage I was causing because he never talked to me about it. As time went on... I wanted to go to therapy and read books to help us but he refused. His thing was always.... he's happy wth the marriage, I'm the one who isn't. Even today he says that he doesn't think the marriage is that bad and I'm the one who is unhappy and wants a divorce. Still today I feel like we live a Independent life from each other. He has changed completely and no longer tries at all to make me happy. Like at all. 

Now I feel resentment. I feel like the invisible wife. Like what I want, and my thoughts and feelings don't matter to him because he is unwilling to change, try to change, or get help with the marriage. He is at the point where he is like... this is who I am, take me or leave me. And I'm obviously unhappy so he is leaving me no other choice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I feel like somewhat of a failure for not fully meeting her needs, or actually not realizing how important these things are to her. I'm sure she has built up resentment towards me for not being able to do it consistantly and slipping back; so I don't know if we are to far passed the point of no return.
> 
> I want to say that I'm sorry I'm not able to be consistant but that I will never stop trying, but I don't know if that would be enough for her at this point.


If you're going to sit in front of a MC, then just ask her for CONCRETE steps to take. Do you want me to hug you every morning? Do you want me to give you 15 minutes of undivided attention? What exactly looks like love to you? Maybe that'll help.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

You guys need to lay out the expectations of the marriage, and the reality. She needs to know that your trying, but your not perfect and she can't keep score and complain everytime you "drop the ball". It's all about understand each other and willingly putting in effort to make the other person happy. She is not you. The more you understand who she is and what she likes the more you will act and do things FOR HER, not treat her how you want to be treated.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



katiecrna said:


> I think that just overall I felt like I needed more from him. More "love". More affection, I wanted him to support me more. My expectations were always so high for him and he could never meet them and I ended up feeling disappointed all the time. Which I know wasn't fair. But I think overall I just needed more effort from him in all aspects.
> 
> In hindsight my marriage was really good. I wish I knew it then but living through it I always felt like it could be better. In the beginning I didnt feel resentment or felt like divorce was the way to go. But when he pulled back from me, stopped trying, stopped putting in effort... then I got resentful, then I thought divorce a option.
> 
> ...


This resonates so much to how my relationship is with my wife, it's strange how similar all of this feels. 

I recall her saying in the past why have an "average" relationship when we could be better, but I always saw our relationship as being good, I never thought or would label our relationship as "average". It seems like she always wanted to perfect the relationship, not that I saw this as a bad thing to better ourselves, but also made me think when will the relationship be viewed as good in her eyes.



katiecrna said:


> You guys need to lay out the expectations of the marriage, and the reality. She needs to know that your trying, but your not perfect and she can't keep score and complain everytime you "drop the ball". It's all about understand each other and willingly putting in effort to make the other person happy. She is not you. The more you understand who she is and what she likes the more you will act and do things FOR HER, not treat her how you want to be treated.


I feel throughout the whole relationship when we would have these discussions, it always felt like we were discussing what her expectations of what she viewed the relationship should be like. It was always what "I" need to do to make her happy, there was never a point of view from her saying, what can I do for my husband to make him happy. It has always felt like she could never accept my "affectionate" shortcomings, however, even with my limitations I would never stop making an effort and I always tried to understand her needs.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I feel throughout the whole relationship when we would have these discussions, it always felt like we were discussing what her expectations of what she viewed the relationship should be like. It was always what "I" need to do to make her happy, there was never a point of view from her saying, what can I do for my husband to make him happy. It has always felt like she could never accept my "affectionate" shortcomings, however, even with my limitations I would never stop making an effort and I always tried to understand her needs.




So I am very direct with my needs and my feelings. I have no problem verbalizing these things, and it's because I think my husband isn't a mind reader so I have to tell him. What I don't appreciate about my husband is his lack of communication about his needs. He always acted like he was fine and happy and his needs were met. But I never specifically asked him because I didn't feel like I should have to. He is very passive and the type that will do what i want but not saying anything about what he wants and resent the fact that I didn't ask him, which is so immature imo. 
I love my husband and I want to make him happy. I wish he would of told me what he wanted. I wish he would of spoke up more about his feelings instead of waiting to be asked. I feel like my husband is not an active person in his own life if that makes sense. It drives me crazy. 

I don't know but i think there is such miss communication here. I speak very bluntly to my husband Bc I'm an idiot, I don't get subtle hints. I need to be spoken to bluntly as well to really understand.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

@dennisg1 I read your post to my husband and he was like wow this is exactly like us a couple years ago. It's creepy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I feel throughout the whole relationship when we would have these discussions, it always felt like we were discussing what her expectations of what she viewed the relationship should be like. It was always what "I" need to do to make her happy, there was never a point of view from her saying, what can I do for my husband to make him happy. It has always felt like she could never accept my "affectionate" shortcomings, however, even with my limitations I would never stop making an effort and I always tried to understand her needs.


Reading His Needs Her Needs TOGETHER could go a long way toward fixing this - assuming she's not just a selfish biotch. I was pretty savvy by the time I read it and even I learned a LOT from it.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

If I can talk to your wife I would say... stop complaining!! Stop trying to improve the marriage and just enjoy the marriage. Express appreciation when he does something you really like. But stop expecting so much, stop complaining so much. Your husband won't make you happy. You need to take what your husband gives you and enjoy it, and get other things elsewhere... like friends and family and hobbies. Complaining and not being thankful for my marriage is the biggest regret I have in my entire life, and it ruined my marriage. 

And to you.... you married someone who is high maintenance unfortunately. You need to put in the effort. And it will be work. But if you want your wife happy it should be a joy to make her happy. Also speak up. Stop waiting for her to ask about you. Be direct. Tell her your needs and wants. 

If we all expressed what makes us happy. Learned about our spouses and understood them more. And if we showed appreciation for our partners, especially when they do the things we like that take effort. And we make a effort to make our spouse happy. 
The problem becomes when we dont express our happiness and appreciation for the effort, and we start to expect that behavior... Which means when we don't get it we complain, but when we get it, we don't appreciate it because we expect it. That makes our partners feel like nothing is ever good enough and they can't make us happy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

One thing to remember about people craving affection is that it is possible that they crave it so much because they have severe low self esteem. Meaning, they NEED you to keep 'feeding' them in order to stay boosted up. If that's the case with her, the other puzzle piece to this is her getting therapy to fix her broken self esteem.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

My husband and I view marriage very differently. I believe you have to be 100% committed, committed to making them happy, committed to making the marriage work. I believe work, effort, and understanding produces the good things In marriage like intimacy, and a good sex love, and companionship. Of course this doesn't account is those taking advantage of a spouse, and being controlling or whatever. 
My husband believes people don't change. They are who they are, and the other person loves them and accepts them for who they are. That because they are married, they should have sex, they should have intimacy, they should have companionship. 

So my husband and I can't get on the same page. I want him to be 100% committed to making the marriage work, to making each other happy. And he says no that's not the point. The point is, this is who I am and I may change for a short time but I will always resort back to who I am. If you don't like who I am, and how I treat you at present time then I can't make you happy and even though I love you this marriage won't work out and because I love you and want you happy you should be with someone who makes you happy.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



katiecrna said:


> @dennisg1 I read your post to my husband and he was like wow this is exactly like us a couple years ago. It's creepy.


Lol. We're link kindred spirits!  



turnera said:


> One thing to remember about people craving affection is that it is possible that they crave it so much because they have severe low self esteem. Meaning, they NEED you to keep 'feeding' them in order to stay boosted up. If that's the case with her, the other puzzle piece to this is her getting therapy to fix her broken self esteem.


I do feel some of this stems from her having "self esteem" issues.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I do feel some of this stems from her having "self esteem" issues.




I 100% agree with you. And I think that's my problem too. But people act like you can wave a wond and be cured of self esteem issues. Self esteem issues imo can not really be fixed. I've done a lot of research on it, and I do my best to live a life that is balanced and positive. But sometimes I just FEEL a certain way even if I know it's not rational. 

My self esteem issues come from my up bringing. I'm fully aware of all my issues. But it doesn't change how I FEEL even though I know better. And I think people with self esteem issues are more needy and controlling to their partners and I'm not saying this is ok, but I'm saying it takes a special person to be sensitive and put up with these issues... because they love their partners. It's the same with people who marry someone with ADHD, boarderline, bipolar.... there has to be a certain level of sensitivity to them, they can't expected to be "normal".


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## Mike6211 (Jan 18, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> ... my wife has has said the ...if you loved me, why don't you do these things... line to me before, and as a husband it just makes me feel like crap and I'm still not good enough; it's like a loaded question.


Perhaps the answer to her question is "If YOU love ME, why don't you stop pushing me for a superhuman level of always-on affection which we both know will never actually be enough for you, because your craving for it is something that can only be resolved by a therapist not a husband".


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

dennisg1

Someone on this thread compared your wife's need for words of affirmation to be equivalent to a man needing his wife to give him a bj every morning.


Now we can measure a bj every morning... That's a pretty clear statement.

I don't think that you have given us any idea of the quantity of "words of affirmation" and the form that she says she wants them in. So it's not clear if her needs are way too much, or if you are just resistant to giving her what she says she needs.

Could you please clarify this?


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

When you were dating things seemed to go well according to your wife. What changed after marriage in regards to your needs. Less sex I'm guessing? It's a two way street. Less sex leads to less desire to fulfill her needs.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

One idea of marriage (or any LTR) is that people shouldn't need to change anything for their SO. Their SO should appreciate them for who they are and either be happy with that or end the relationship.

If both partners had the same attitude, neither would ever do anything that they didn't want to do themselves and their relationship would consist of only doing things they both want to do (assuming that they want to do them at the same time).

A relationship that worked under those rules isn't much of a relationship and is unlikely to last.

Relationships usually consist of a taker and a giver. The giver likes to meet the needs of others and the taker likes having their needs met.

What happens is that one person (the taker) takes the "You should love me as I am" position which requires the other (the giver) to either leave or spend their life accommodating the taker, building resentment all the while. The giver comes on TAM to try to find ways to solve the problem.

The taker has no problems and, therefore, doesn't see any reason to post on TAM.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

IME, the only things that have helped a person improve their self esteem are a lot of consistent therapy and accomplishing things.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

I have on occasion noticed that some women have an emotional need for their husband to be ambitious. In all things. Work. Parenting. Attending to his wife. They need a man who want to be not just OK or good enough but excellent. And who will keep striving for excellence.

It is not written about as often as things like affection and words of affirmation and conversation and financial support. But I think it is very real for some women.

And it is like sex: a person cannot provide it for themselves. It has to come from your spouse. So if the spouse you have today will not satisfy that need, the only way to get it met is to move on to another partner.
@dennisg1: During IC, in addition to asking your wife for specific examples of what she wants you to do (like buying flowers, bringing her a love note, complimenting her cooking or her hair or her outfit), ask her if she feels a need for you to be hard working and ambitious. Does she get frustrated when you tell her you think something is "good enough"? Does she resent seeing you relax on Sunday afternoon in front of the tv when you could be doing chores or preparing for Monday's work project? Does she feel that you should want your marriage to be absolutely the best it can be and should always be on the lookout for ways to improve it?

I think this is very important because I think a mismatch as to levels of ambition is just as fatal to marriages as a mismatch in desire and willingness to have sex.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



Holdingontoit said:


> Does she resent seeing you relax on Sunday afternoon in front of the tv when you could be doing chores or preparing for Monday's work project?


Don't even get me started here. I have literally walked around seething mad as my H sleeps in until 11 on the weekend or watches tv from 9am to 6pm - yes, after I've asked him to do something - while I'm doing the laundry, dishes, making food, dusting, gardening. I know, I could choose to just goof off, too, but when there is nobody else in the home DOING anything, how's it going to get done? 

And when we were dating and first married, he WAS ambitious. His house was neat as a pin. Every room was organized. So that's what I thought I was marrying. Today he has filled an entire 3-car garage with junk he won't get rid of, along with several other rooms. I didn't sign up for this!

I'm not saying you do that, but there may be SOME thing that she wants from you specifically that you're either not understanding or not hearing. And the longer it goes ignored, the bigger the resentment or unhappiness gets.

This is why communication is so important.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

I wanted to give an update on my situation... 

I've been trying to do the things that she needs (e.g. words of affirmation) but my efforts are not resonating with her. She says it wouldn't be fair to set me up for failure if I'm trying and making efforts but she's not 100% committed. She says in a different context she would love it but it now just seems like a last-ditch attempt to save our marriage, it feels forced after it's too late, and this should have happened years ago. The thing is I have always made attempts in the past, they just weren't consistent.

We both agree that the relationship is not bad. We aren't dysfunctional, abusive, unhealthy, no affairs, and we don't hate each other. However, we have 2 different perceptions of what a marriage should look like.

Anyway, my response to her was if she's not 100% committed or checked out then I'll stop making efforts and I tell her then separation/divorce seems like our only other option. However, when I suggest moving in that direction she doesn't and says she doesn't know if that's the right decision and she's scared if we make the wrong decision or to not have me be a part of her life.

My current state is confusion, when I try to make an effort she views it as "too late" but when I suggest separation/divorce she doesn't feel very confident about that decision either. I don't know how we can get better if she views my efforts as "too late".

Is there anything I can do or say that would help her see that it's not "too late"? I don't feel like anything drastic like an affair, being abusive, etc. has happened in our relationship to make it feel like it's "too late". 

I've been watching some Tony Robbins videos, reading some Laura Doyle articles I found online, etc. and the only comfort I get from all of this is knowing how similar my story is with other couples. Knowing I'm not the only guy who has "been asleep at the wheel" because they didn't really know how unhappy their wife really was, makes this a little easier to deal with.

However, I don't believe this is all my fault; even watching some of the Tony Robbins videos, there were parts where there were things the wife did or didn't do that had an effect on their marriage and the same goes for the husband. 

youtube.com/watch?v=LsqTZZUM--M

It just feels like we both stopped trying to fulfill each other's needs and this is what really accelerated our current roommate type status. I feel if we both approached this differently, things would have been a lot easier; if she did some of the things in the article below I could have received what she was saying to me in a better light instead of always feeling like I was doing things wrong.

lauradoyle.org/blog/husband-not-affectionate

Thank you!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

She is waiting for you to SHOW her that she is your priority. Not TALK about it. Is she selfish? Maybe. But that's the wife you picked, so if you want to keep her, you have to pay attention to what she wants. 

Did you read HNHN yet?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Have you read "His Needs, Her Needs"?


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



turnera said:


> She is waiting for you to SHOW her that she is your priority. Not TALK about it. Is she selfish? Maybe. But that's the wife you picked, so if you want to keep her, you have to pay attention to what she wants.
> 
> Did you read HNHN yet?


I've started reading HNHN, however, based on what my wife has been saying lately I don't know if it's "too late".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

ALL women say it's too late. Do remember that a woman's 'feelings' are very slow to change. It took her a long while to get to this point of indifference. Why I said you have to just start doing everything you should be doing, whether you get immediate results or not. Cos you WON'T get immediate results. I'm talking 6 months of consistency from you, at least. 

How far into the book are you?


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



turnera said:


> ALL women say it's too late. Do remember that a woman's 'feelings' are very slow to change. It took her a long while to get to this point of indifference. Why I said you have to just start doing everything you should be doing, whether you get immediate results or not. Cos you WON'T get immediate results. I'm talking 6 months of consistency from you, at least.
> 
> How far into the book are you?


Yes, that makes sense. I'm on chapter 3 "The First Thing She Can’t Do Without— Affection".

However, how do I respond if I keep on doing these things and she keeps telling me that she loves that I'm doing these things and in a different context she would love it but she is confused by this and it feels forced and a last-ditch attempt? 

It's hard for me to continue filling her "love bank" if she keeps on telling me this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

You just smile knowingly, go about your business, and give her a light patt on the butt as you walk by. If anything, you say 'that's ok, babe, I'm doing this for me, too.'

She's telling you that because she is expecting you to jump through hoops now, now that you're 'serious' finally. She feels like she can't give you any crumbs because she suspects that as soon as she does, you will revert back to the old you, or that you'll then start pestering her to let you go back to the old relationship. 

Again, most women in her position do this. Nothing to be surprised at. 

This is kind of like when you're in a marriage and the woman complains that 'all you want is sex' and you have decided, upon your therapist's advice, to STOP asking for sex for awhile, have a sex moratorium, and the wife isn't responding to your not grabbing at her, you just want it to be fixed already! See? You've gone two whole days without grabbing her crotch!

If you're really in this to LEARN how to be a better spouse and create a better marriage, stop looking for the immediate response, the quick fix. There are none. Women have to see long-term, continuous change in you for no other reason than it's the right thing to do.

This is a culture shift you're being asked to do. Not steps in a dance. You're either up to it for the long haul cos you know it's the right thing and it will improve you, or you're just making motions to get her to go back the way she was (as she suspects out of self protection).

And I gotta say it: 


> It's hard for me to continue filling her "love bank" if she keeps on telling me this.


 This doesn't sound like a very loving thing to say. Do you LOVE her? Then you love her enough to meet her needs for awhile because it needs to be done, NOT because you get something in return.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I've started reading HNHN, however, based on what my wife has been saying lately I don't know if it's "too late".


It's not too late until the judge signs the divorce decree. And even then there is re-marriage.

You need to take a long term view of this if you want your wife in your life.

Stop talking about it and just do it. Just learn how to show affection the way she needs it. Over time she is most likely to put down her guard and let you back in emotionally.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

Have you gone to individual counseling in any capacity? There are some interesting issues popping up in your posts which makes it seem like you have some deep seated issues.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

@dennisg1: As others have said, you don't do it for her. You don't do it for a reward from her. You do it because it is the right thing to do for your spouse. You do it because that is the kind of man and husband and human being you want to be. A person who provides for his spouse's emotional needs.

When you stop feeling that you want to do it for yourself, stop doing it. And immediately file for divorce. Don't stay married one minute past the time that you can't bring yourself to meet your spouse's emotional needs "just because". That time may already have passed.

But, again, as the others have said, don't do it in a tit for tat way, where you are only doing it to get her to have sex with you. Or to get her to wash your laundry. You can pay for either of those services. Do what she wants and needs because you love her and want her to be happy. Whether she meets your needs or not. When you can't do that, divorce and go find someone who inspires you to want to do that for them.


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

I will add another book to your 'must read' list.

Given what you have said regarding your feelings of inadequacy and failure when she tells you you aren't cutting it when it comes to meeting her needs, I suggest reading "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking about It" by Patricia Love and Steven Stosny. It examines what they call the 'fear/shame spiral', a dynamic that is at play in most relationships. Men are highly sensitive to and seek to avoid feelings of shame and inadequacy while women are highly sensitive to and seek to avoid feelings of deprivation and isolation. A woman's fear can trigger a man's shame (and vice versa) and, if neither party understands what is happening, both parties start spiraling into increasing levels of fear and shame until they are both completely unable to deal with each other or the relationship.


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## dennisg1 (Jun 5, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*

@Dazedconfuzed Thank you, I'll take a look at this book as well.

We decided to take a break since we've been in this stuck state for some time and we're really not moving forward. I ended up staying at a friend's apartment that's usually empty, since he lives out of state, but crashes there when he needs to be in town for work.

We went to another MC session and I really don't know what we are doing. I mentioned that I have been reading HNHN and it has definitely made me realize how so many relationships go through these issues when the other person's needs are not being met. I said I wish I learned all of this in a previous relationship and I was meeting my wife just now as a new relationship, so I could apply what I know now to our relationship.

I've been trying to send her affectionate texts and trying to rekindle our relationship but she says she feels confused in what I'm doing, and feels it would be better if I stopped doing it because she doesn't want to see me make an effort and her not be 100% committed.

She definitely has resentment towards me because she hates that it took us to get to this point before I really understood how important her needs are for her to be happy. 

She also apologized for being so needy and said that she is just trying to be honest about the situation. 

Based on her comments, it seems like she is preparing herself for divorce but I told her if this is the path she wants to take to at least be honest with me and tell me so I can stop trying and I could start checking out too. 

I then said if this is the path we're taking then let's move forward because I'm exhausted in being in this hurting state, but then she tells me she doesn't know if this is what she wants because she can't see a life without me in it and she still wants to keep going to MC.

I just don't know what direction we're taking, I have always wanted to be with her and divorce was not an option for me but if she's emotionally checked out it feels like she's just stringing me along because she doesn't want to move forward with divorce but she doesn't want me to make any efforts to rekindle the relationship and just wants to stay in this MC / separation state.

If she needs more time for the separation I'm okay with that, but with all her comments it doesn't seem like she wants to work to make things better so I don't know what we are doing. So we left things as we will send minimal texts and I will see her again at MC in a couple weeks.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> @Dazedconfuzed Thank you, I'll take a look at this book as well.
> 
> We decided to take a break since we've been in this stuck state for some time and we're really not moving forward. I ended up staying at a friend's apartment that's usually empty, since he lives out of state, but crashes there when he needs to be in town for work.
> 
> ...


Keep doing it anyway. She is in withdrawal and her emotional love bank is closed to you right now. The more you can keep reaching out to her, the more she will be able to trust you and your efforts. You're not the first husband in this situation, but like HNHN states, you're in the best position to turn this around. This doesn't mean you do this forever, just for 6 months or so to show her that she can trust you to be there for her, to meet her needs. Since there is no affair, chances are you can turn this around much sooner. The 6 months is just for your mental health so you know you don't have to keep facing rejection forever. Dr. Harley found that men can go 6 months reaching out to their wives without expecting their needs to be met before health consequences develop, whereas most women can only go for about a month before they are at risk of mental and physical health consequences.

Neglect is the number 1 reason why women leave men. It's that important to us to feel cherished and adored by our husbands. It's simply how we are wired. Similar to how respect and admiration is often like oxygen to men.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Wife always craves more affection to feel loved & I feel like I can never measure*



dennisg1 said:


> I've been trying to send her affectionate texts and trying to rekindle our relationship but she says she feels confused in what I'm doing, and feels it would be better if I stopped doing it because she doesn't want to see me make an effort and her not be 100% committed.
> 
> She definitely has resentment towards me because she hates that it took us to get to this point before I really understood how important her needs are for her to be happy.


This is all straight out of ANY book about walkaway wives. Every woman in that state says the exact same things. I could have told you before I read it that she would say those things. Don't smother her, but don't ignore her either. Treat her with respect, SHOW her how you are changing but for YOU, not her. If you can't go six months trying to win her back, then you aren't really all that in love with her anyway, are you?



> I then said if this is the path we're taking then let's move forward because I'm exhausted in being in this hurting state, but then she tells me she doesn't know if this is what she wants because she can't see a life without me in it and she still wants to keep going to MC.
> 
> I just don't know what direction we're taking, I have always wanted to be with her and divorce was not an option for me but if she's emotionally checked out it feels like she's just stringing me along because she doesn't want to move forward with divorce but she doesn't want me to make any efforts to rekindle the relationship and just wants to stay in this MC / separation state.
> 
> If she needs more time for the separation I'm okay with that, but with all her comments it doesn't seem like she wants to work to make things better so I don't know what we are doing. So we left things as we will send minimal texts and I will see her again at MC in a couple weeks.


She's telling you this stuff so that you don't jump to conclusions or just decide it's all fixed. Women stuff their feelings for YEARS, so seeing a man suddenly 'get it' and go off in a flurry of attention, well, it's pretty infuriating. And confusing. And scary. She's built up a wall to PROTECT herself from you. And you just want her to say she'll stay, when she has no idea if you really ARE changing or are just pursuing. So you really need to back off, stay consistent, learn everything you can, and GIVE HER TIME. She didn't come up with this overnight. She's not going to trust you again overnight.

Read this:


> For the past two decades I have devoted myself to helping couples work out their differences in order to keep their marriages and families together. This marriage-saving passion is not based on religious beliefs nor do I think that divorce is morally wrong. My divorce busting bias is simply based on my firm conviction that the vast majority of problems that people are experiencing when they consider divorce are, without question, solvable. Over the years, I’ve had countless experiences of helping near-the-brink couples reinvest in their marriages and fall back in love again. That being said, there is one particular situation that I find particularly challenging. I refer to it as, “The Walkaway Wife Syndrome.”
> 
> Do you know that two-thirds of all the divorces that are filed in our country are filed by women? This is not to say that women take their commitment to their marriages lightly. They don’t. Most women believe that they have tried everything humanly possible to turn things around before throwing in the towel. Nonetheless, women are walking away from their marriages in droves. Why? Although there are a variety of reasons that might account for this mass exiting, there is one reason that, in my mind, stands out above the rest.
> 
> ...


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome


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