# Guess this means were done!!!



## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I get home from work and check H's keylogger on my email.. and lo and behold he has changed every password to every account "in his name"....

He had already left to go golf,,, so I proceed to take every item of his in the house and threw it all in a pile out in the yard!!!!

Texted him that he needs to come by after golf.... 

Gave him no explanation.... so he leaves golf and ..... plus I have him locked out of "MY" house!!!!

He then tells me that he did change them, but if I wanted to ever see them to just call him and he would of come over for me to go through them all...... F*ck that!!!


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I hope that you will be okay through this very trying time.


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## hunter411 (Jun 4, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Numb...


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Sorry! I guess there comes a time where it's really not worth it....and he really knew how to push it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

frankieg said:


> why do you have to check up on him with a key logger to begin with? just from this one simple post, not knowing you or any back story, it screams hot head, insecure and nuts. just my opinnion but your post is very short on details


Perhaps you should take the time to read some of her other posts before posting something like this.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Those of us that KNOW her story know she did the right thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

frankieg said:


> why do you have to check up on him with a key logger to begin with? just from this one simple post, not knowing you or any back story, it screams hot head, insecure and nuts. just my opinnion but your post is very short on details



Maybe you shouldn't give much input then, unless you read through my stories.....


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Don't know the whole story but clearly there was some sort of agreement in regards to transparency and the keylogger identified the BS.

Good for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

As he's loading his stuff in his truck, our neighbor comes home,(unaware),, and laughs and says,," so she finally kicked you out" ,,,, 

Then he texts me, and says " guess this will give you more reason to not trust me",,,,, ( WELL NO SH*T SHERLOCK)
And he must of realized that all on his own...!!!


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

UpnDown said:


> Don't know the whole story but clearly there was some sort of agreement in regards to transparency and the keylogger identified the BS.
> 
> Good for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No,, he had no clue I have the keylogger on his computer (But he wanted me to be able to see his phone and bank at first to try and build up trust).... he asked me yesterday if I "needed" him.... I told him that at this point and time,, No...

So this is an example of what he does when he thinks he's showing me a lesson.... He cancelled our joint checking account ( we both had separate by now anyway),,,but HE kept all the money that was in it..(wasn't a lot, but still)

Plus on his accounts, he's already gave address changes on the ones he could...

And we have "2nd" counseling session tomorrow... guess he didn't want to give R much of a chance...


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Sheesh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

UpnDown said:


> Sheesh
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I concur.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

frankieg said:


> meh you still sound nuts to me(kidding), just my opinion based on one post. i don't have time nor do i care to read everything anyone has posted to get the complete story on a very vague topic.
> 
> flame away i am a big boy lol. seriously i am sorry for what you are going through and i am sure you are upset.


:scratchhead: Why bother to post then if you have no idea what is going on or any desire to even know?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> No,, he had no clue I have the keylogger on his computer (But he wanted me to be able to see his phone and bank at first to try and build up trust).... he asked me yesterday if I "needed" him.... I told him that at this point and time,, No...
> 
> So this is an example of what he does when he thinks he's showing me a lesson.... He cancelled our joint checking account ( we both had separate by now anyway),,,but HE kept all the money that was in it..(wasn't a lot, but still)
> 
> ...


On a positive note, you've ripped the band-aid off that "changed man" stuff. No gaslighting for you.

I know it hurts, but it's for the best.

You can observe him now if you wish.

He's got plenty to think about.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

For what it's worth, I admire your cool under fire.

Nobody really realizes how tough that was.

But, you did the right thing.

He took your measure and completely underestimated you.

This wasn't lost on him (if you care)


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Conrad said:


> For what it's worth, I admire your cool under fire.
> 
> Nobody really realizes how tough that was.
> 
> ...


Very true,, all I was saying to myself (out loud of course).. was " he wants to play..... I can play too" ,,, 

He thinks he can control this whole issue... I might lose my house over all this...there's no way I can pay everything on my own.. but I'd rather start from scratch, with nothing, than live with someone who can't rationalize before they act or speak..

ME: " Maybe you need to learn to think before you do sh*t like this...
HIM" You hurt my feelings" by telling me you didn't "need" me..
ME:, "And how much did you hurt me?",,
HIM: "But that was a long time ago, and I said I was sorry".... ME: WTF???


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Very true,, all I was saying to myself (out loud of course).. was " he wants to play..... I can play too" ,,,
> 
> He thinks he can control this whole issue... I might lose my house over all this...there's no way I can pay everything on my own.. but I'd rather start from scratch, with nothing, than live with someone who can't rationalize before they act or speak..
> 
> ...


Said you were sorry?

That's great - and is a fantastic start.

"But, I cannot hear what you are saying - because your ACTIONS speak so loudly."


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Amen!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Numb in Ohio said:


> He thinks he can control this whole issue... I might lose my house over all this...there's no way I can pay everything on my own.. but I'd rather start from scratch, with nothing, than live with someone who can't rationalize before they act or speak..


It's truly a break through when you mentally reach this point. I've essentially lost everything, but it's better than living with a lying, cheating, narcissist. Hang in there; you're going to make it!


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

827Aug said:


> It's truly a break through when you mentally reach this point. I've essentially lost everything, but it's better than living with a lying, cheating, narcissist. Hang in there; you're going to make it!



Thanks.. I just wish I felt better,, but I can't go back into the Codependency I've been in... 

And I definitely cannot go back into the abuse I was accepting before..


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Thanks.. I just wish I felt better,, but I can't go back into the Codependency I've been in...
> 
> And I definitely cannot go back into the abuse I was accepting before..


It's way too easy to start back peddling and making excuses for them once you do something you feel is pretty drastic. Hang in there!!


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## Vanton68 (Feb 5, 2012)

Great job Numb! You are very strong! I have to say I admire what you have done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Vanton68 said:


> Great job Numb! You are very strong! I have to say I admire what you have done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not feeling very strong.... feel like I'm being drug in the mud.. 
Why does the BS end up getting the short end... for doing what's right.. and the cheater gets more pity,, because I'm not taking him back...?? 

I have about 4 people that support me.. 
my own daughter (23) thinks I should stay with him,, she feels sorry for him.... I've been sitting here crying for 2 hours and she has not spoke one word to me....to see if I'm ok..

( I know,,pity party for me),,,but if I was in the wrong I could understand,, but family is family...right?? It hurts me alot about this..


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I'm not feeling very strong.... feel like I'm being drug in the mud..
> Why does the BS end up getting the short end... for doing what's right.. and the cheater gets more pity,, because I'm not taking him back...??
> 
> I have about 4 people that support me..
> ...


He knows how to play the Victim card very well, do not take that as a shot against you, it's simply another negative point towards his character.

You did nothing wrong, unfortunately your daughter will pick a side but that doesn't mean she will always keep true to it.

Don't falter, you did the right thing! You 2 had an agreement, he clearly didn't stick to his side of it so why would you put up with MORE??


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I talked with my daughter, and she isn't picking sides. I know she wants us to work this out, but she doesn't know all the facts. 

After our counseling session Friday we went to try and work out and discuss the bills.... H gave me a hug (which was ok),, but of course he started kissing, and tried to talk me into sex,, I said it wasn't gonna happen (guess he shouldn't of been watching so much porn that morning) ... so he paid his part of the bills, and took me out to dinner..( which before we went , he said in a whisper,," I'm a lot bigger and stronger than you, I should of just taken it)... WTH!! Then he bought me dinner.. and when we got up to leave, he looked at the bill and said " With dinner being this much, I should of gotten something out of the deal"

It just amazed me that I threw all his stuff out in yard the day before, and he thinks he can get me to have sex with him the next...:scratchhead:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Some serious boundary work needed here.

Did you tell him you were not ok with that type of talk?


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Some serious boundary work needed here.
> 
> Did you tell him you were not ok with that type of talk?



I know I need more work on the boundary issue.. I know he planned (hoped) on me to be my normal "give in" self... he thought he could talk me into it.. I was probably in the wrong partly by putting myself in that position to begin with.. but was proud of myself for staying true to how I felt. 

All I was thinking was, that it wasn't even about him having sex "with me".. it was just about him wanting to have sex....
I felt like if I would have gave in, that I would be cheating on myself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I know I need more work on the boundary issue.. I know he planned (hoped) on me to be my normal "give in" self... he thought he could talk me into it.. I was probably in the wrong partly by putting myself in that position to begin with.. but was proud of myself for staying true to how I felt.
> 
> All I was thinking was, that it wasn't even about him having sex "with me".. it was just about him wanting to have sex....
> I felt like if I would have gave in, that I would be cheating on myself.


Most of the time, this forum is filled with Mr. Nice Guys that give in to keep their wives happy - only to find out their wives aren't happy unless they're unhappy.

Such is the beginning of the Crazy Making Dance.

You sound like Mrs. Nice Wife - and he has been gaslighting you during your relationship.

And you cave in.

Just another question.

When you think of standing up for yourself and disagreeing with someone, do you think you have to be angry to do it?


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Just another question.
> 
> When you think of standing up for yourself and disagreeing with someone, do you think you have to be angry to do it?


You got that one... I can only count on one hand how many times he has actually known I've been angry. I always hold it in. My counselor says it is from abandonment issues.. 

I have read the book " The Nice Girl Syndrome",, it has helped some, but the problem I have with most people, is that I don't like to voice anything negative, in fear that I will hurt their feelings... Yes I've been a doormat... and my H has figured this out and played to his advantage. I know this is something I can't put all the blame on him ... yet I had never seeked out counseling before our issues. I was just always the wife who went along with everything so as to not upset him..
And he is the type who always has to have his way, at any cost.. it doesn't matter who's feelings he hurts to achieve his goal. (except a handful of people in his life that he would never say a bad word to.. he respects them too much)... 

Him and I discussed this the other day,, me and his mother are the only people he has treated so demeaning...(I don't know how he treated his previous wife)


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

When I found myself in that situation, I started doing boundary work with my wife. Of course, it starts rocky - until they realize you mean business.

I wasn't sure whether we were going to make it or not. But, I knew I had nothing to lose by standing up for myself. Firmly and with detachment. I observed her behavior. When we'd get to the point where things started to get ugly, I would leave rather than engage in an overheated discussion.

Over time, we both learned to de-escalate when things started to get rocky.

Practice with "I'm not ok with that". It can be fun.

Observe his reactions WITHOUT owning them.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

With my personality, I think I sometimes give him the flip flop attitude... I "say" that I'm not sure things are going to work, but am willing to stay in counseling to see if they can be...

But my actions are totally that I don't think they are.. I don't call him or have any contact with him when he's around me..

Our counselor even looked at me last session and said " I don't mean to hurt your feelings,, but "I" don't get you.... 

I know I am showing this flip flop R attitude... he doesn't know what I want... and 9 months since Dday... shouldn't I know???


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

How about you want it to work if it can?

That's where I was.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Conrad said:


> How about you want it to work if it can?
> 
> That's where I was.


That's why I have my list of questions for counseling. I haven't been able to get to these questions because of other events that happen in between.

I have proof for a couple of these questions if he decides to lie about them. That is what I am waiting for , to see if he is going to be honest with me....

As an example,,if he decides to lie to me about the fact of watching porn (he has already told me he didn't when I asked once before).... then I feel if he is willing to lie to me about porn, then I would assume he is willing to continue to lie to me about our big issues....


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> That's why I have my list of questions for counseling. I haven't been able to get to these questions because of other events that happen in between.
> 
> I have proof for a couple of these questions if he decides to lie about them. That is what I am waiting for , to see if he is going to be honest with me....
> 
> As an example,,if he decides to lie to me about the fact of watching porn (he has already told me he didn't when I asked once before).... then I feel if he is willing to lie to me about porn, then I would assume he is willing to continue to lie to me about our big issues....


So, you're planning to test him?


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Conrad said:


> So, you're planning to test him?



My "gut" has been telling me that he is not being truthful with me on his EA's... he tells me that he hasn't lied to me about anything... Tries to get me to believe him by saying " I can't give you the answers you want to hear, I can only give you the truth"

So , yes going to test his honesty... wouldn't you think that if he is willing to lie about watching porn.. that he would lie to me about the extent of the affairs?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> My "gut" has been telling me that he is not being truthful with me on his EA's... he tells me that he hasn't lied to me about anything... Tries to get me to believe him by saying " I can't give you the answers you want to hear, I can only give you the truth"
> 
> So , yes going to test his honesty... wouldn't you think that if he is willing to lie about watching porn.. that he would lie to me about the extent of the affairs?


Sounds like the dialogue of the deaf to me.

What you both "will" require is a complete re-think of the relationship. Not a game of "gotcha", because you already know how that will turn out.

Change the dynamic yourself. See how he responds.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Change the dynamic yourself. See how he responds.



I'm not sure what you mean by this?


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this?


I think he means you have to take the inituative to start changing the path yourself. With reinforced, repetative actions.

Think of how your car drives when you don't have power steering fluid in it, you have to turn that wheel and turn it until it finally gets on the path you want it to .. sure as hell ain't easy (and depending on how fast you are going .. dangerous .. lol) but in the end you turn that wheel and go in the direction you want.

(If I'm way off, just 2x4 me, bahaha)


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I know I am showing this flip flop R attitude... he doesn't know what I want... and 9 months since Dday... shouldn't I know???


I think that when certain things don't make sense or the WS isn't completely remorseful or their behaviour is slightly "off", then I think not knowing what you want, even after 9 months, is normal.

TO me it means that you need to explore not only your feelings but his actions. Perhaps, doing so with your counselor is a good start.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Zanna said:


> I think that when certain things don't make sense or the WS isn't completely remorseful or their behaviour is slightly "off", then I think not knowing what you want, even after 9 months, is normal.
> 
> TO me it means that you need to explore not only your feelings but his actions. Perhaps, doing so with your counselor is a good start.



My H's actions for the most part show remorse,, but I think it's merely a tactic to get me back... because of not wanting to be alone.. I don't believe him when he tells me that after 9 years of his verbal and emotional abuse, that it has only taken him 3 counseling sessions to become the "changed man" he is trying to show me. 
He is all so sweet to me as long as he sees hope ,, but as soon as I mention anything negative on the relationship, he gets mean and "vengeful"... 

I like our counselor, but am leery of him for the fact that he believes everything my H tells him... he doesn't ever test his answers to see if he's lying. He will just look at me and say that H is being sincere with his answers... and then doesn't "get me" when I still have doubts. I can't help that my gut is screaming "LIAR",, every time my H opens his mouth.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> My H's actions for the most part show remorse,, but I think it's merely a tactic to get me back... because of not wanting to be alone.. I don't believe him when he tells me that after 9 years of his verbal and emotional abuse, that it has only taken him 3 counseling sessions to become the "changed man" he is trying to show me.
> He is all so sweet to me as long as he sees hope ,, but as soon as I mention anything negative on the relationship, he gets mean and "vengeful"...
> 
> I like our counselor, but am leery of him for the fact that he believes everything my H tells him... he doesn't ever test his answers to see if he's lying. He will just look at me and say that H is being sincere with his answers... and then doesn't "get me" when I still have doubts. I can't help that my gut is screaming "LIAR",, every time my H opens his mouth.


If your councilor doesn't 'get you' for why you feel the way you feel then he should get another job. He should be challenging you then as to why you don't believe the words that come out of your stbxh mouth.

Because really, maybe there is a reason why you don't and it can be discovered and worked on.

I know very little about 'true remorse' but from what I thought I understood.. isn't someone who is truly remorseful pretty much defenseless when persecuted?

To a point of course, you can't keep beating the dead horse and not expect them to eventually react.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this?


Here's an example.

He says something ridiculous about how much he "should have gotten" for paying for dinner.

"I'm not ok with that inference"

"I'm not ok with changing passwords"

"I'm not ok with being put down"

You get the idea?

"Testing" him to see if he's lying is more of the same. It's you trying to prosecute him.

What you want to do is stand up to his games. Cool, calm, confident.

You will never "prove" a thing to him legally.

What you can do is SHOW him you are on to him and that his manipulation won't work.

KWIM?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I applaud you for having the mentality that you rather lose everything and start from scratch then be put in this situation, disrespected, betrayed. 

I told a family member who is dealing with problems in the marriage the same thing. She is worried about losing the house. So fvcking what. At least you keep your pride and self respect. Good luck Numb. You'll be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

I am sorry you have to go through this. You could be my wife, our stories are very similar except I never had an affair of any kind and she won't go to counseling.
I applaud you for giving him a chance, If he blew it he has no one to blame but himself.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Conrad:

I understand what you're saying to do.. and I plan on using this.

I am not (well maybe a little) trying to persecute him... I am mostly trying to get him to "own it"...

I know he is lying to me ( at least on some things).. should I try to be calmer, and just tell him "I'm not ok with....." ,, and yet not know what to believe from him?

I can only go by my gut, and just one or two "facts" to out him on his lying.. 

I can't just tell him that " I'm not ok with you lying to me",, and expect him to come clean.... 

How, if differently, should I handle this?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Conrad:
> 
> I understand what you're saying to do.. and I plan on using this.
> 
> ...


I would say, "I'm not ok with the lying" and then use an incontrovertible uncontroversial lie that you are both aware of.

When he tries to gaslight, you calmly tell him, "I'm not ok with taking all this on faith."

Because you aren't.

He cannot argue with that.

If he gets abusive, remove yourself from the situation.

It becomes a rhythm until he realizes you are serious about not putting up with his crap - AND - willing to act on it.

This avoids the high emotion of "gotcha" - and it makes the point in a way that is unmistakeable. You are done with the crazy dance.

The next move is his.

This is the only way you'll truly know - by not being a part of the dance yourself.


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