# Please tell me it's not too late



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

I know this is a long read, but PLEASE stick with it and hear the story of me and my wife. I would appreciate all constructive criticism and opinion. Thank you.

A bit of background: my wife and I have been married for ten years, together for 14. We have two children: a 14-year old boy and a 9-year old girl. Six years ago, we moved to this city from another one, for a better opportunity: my wife is a nurse and this job would pay for the move, the gov't gave a $10,000 grant due to nursing shortage, and the housing market was much cheaper here.

Since moving here, we decided that the children should be homeschooled. My wife was bigger on that than was I, but I was more than willing to do it for the kids. With kids home all day, and a house to take care of, getting a job isn't exactly something that fits in the schedule. A few years ago, I started having health problems, and I wound up in the Emergency Room with some regularity, and finally, last March, I was able to receive the surgery I required. Up until then, I could be anywhere, doing anything when problems arose, so I guess that those things combined made it more difficult for me to step out more and find friends and interests, join activities/clubs, and step out... 

Anyway.

Over the last number of months, I noticed changes in how my wife responded to me. She'd come home and be cheerful, give me a kiss & hug and ask me about my day. I'd ask about hers. But, not long after arriving, she'd sit down and spend most of her time on the other end of the couch from me, chatting with GFs on facebook, playing games on the laptop; that sort of thing. I noticed changes sexually, as well. She'd previously been very kissy when we made love and now, unless I kissed her, she didn't kiss me anymore. And definitely no tongue. Foreplay had changed, and things that we used to do for each other weren't really there anymore. I did some reading on the internet and the consensus opinion I saw was that it indicates that she'd withdrawn from me somewhat, and I wanted to change that. Wanting to change it and knowing how to were pretty different things, and I have to say that I don't think I handled it properly. I mostly stopped initiating sex, thinking that if she wasn't "into it" then it could go badly and make things worse. I know. Dumb idea.

But, the last month or so, I decided to change gears: be more affectionate. I try to sit next to her on the couch. If I pass her, try to hug her more, or just place a hand on her back, shoulder, etc. When we're out, I would hold her hand. I'm just generally trying to be closer.

Her birthday is coming up, and so two night ago I decided to go on her facebook account to invite her friends to the party I'm going to throw for her. Before you say it: I didn't break into her account or go in to snoop. We know each other's passwords for facebook, email, etc. I don't do the facebook thing, but she knows all of my login info for what I do involve myself with online. Wasn't there to snoop.

I went to send a message to one of her GFs and was floored. Absolutely devastated. There were messages saying things like how she knew what she needed to, but wanted to make sure the kids were dealt with first, "he won't get violent, but he'll try to manipulate me", "when I told him to get a job, he refused", and "he accuses me of cheating". Her GF's responses were all of the "Yeah! Leave him! Kick him to the curb if he can't see how awesome you are!". They were like that, but only very recently.

What I saw there screamed at me "SHE'S GOING TO LEAVE YOU!"

I got sick. I literally ran to the bathroom and threw up, and then went to our room, and I'll admit it: I was crying, which I don't really do. She came in, closed the door and was generally "Oh my God, what's wrong?" I asked her: "You want to leave me? You want to leave me?" She ran across and said "Honey, no! I don't want that!" I told her about the messages I saw and how I came across them. She cried too, and out it came:

"You don't back me up with your mother."
"You're constantly late picking me up from work."
"I told you to see a doctor about your problems, and I finally had to tell your mother, so she'd tell. Only then did you go."
"You were late to my dance recital last year!"
"When I tell you if I don't feel well, you tell me 'I know what you mean, I had a tough day, too'. I don't feel like I'm allowed to be sick.
"When your mother was mean to me, and gave me the silent treatment, you didn't straighten her out."
"You haven't gotten any friends since we moved here. You don't involve yourself in any activities. I want couples friends, but I can't because you won't make friends. You find something wrong with everybody."
"You don't follow through on things like booking appointments, and leave it all to me."
"Remember last autumn when you came in the room and I was crying? I wanted to talk to you then, but you had to go to ER just a few minutes later. I know that you really were sick and not trying to avoid a conversation. But I told you I wanted to talk about it later and you never brought it back up.
"You cut me off when I speak, and that makes the kids think it's alright to disrespect me. No wonder they don't always do what they're supposed to until you say so."
"You didn't buy me a ring for out ten year anniversary the other week. I don't need anything expensive. I'm happy with the cheapest little thing, but you didn't do that."
"You correct me."
"These things have hurt me, and made angry and resentful."

She was more honest with me than I'd ever seen in our fourteen years together. And mostly, she's right. I have often (but not always) taken the coward's way out when dealing my mother, and try the peacemaker approach. I am often late to pick her up. I was late to her dance recital (though it honestly wasn't my fault, and I didn't want to defend myself at the time). I haven't gotten out there. I do cut her off or disagree with her in front of the kids. I didn't bring up that conversation again. I have admit that I selfishly was only thinking about my health issues. I screwed those things up. I let her say it all, not trying to defend myself, and apologized for what I'd done to make her feel so bad. She had mentioned some of these things over the years, but never given the indication it was so serious as to lead to the kinds of conversations she was having with her friends. She told me that she's wanted to talk to me, but was afraid I'd be angry and wouldn't listen to her, or would be super-logical and try to poke holes in her points. When she was done, she hugged and kissed me. Her hug was super tight and so close. 

There were a couple of other things which she said which I completely disagree with, though: "You constantly accuse of me cheating, and make me see clips on cheaters on youtube."

My defense: she has an old male friend from high school, whom she had bumped into again a few years ago. Never dated, never wanted to. He's come to visit here, I've met him. He's nice. Not a threat. He rents a room from a married couple and my wife became friends with that lady. Sometimes she visits all of them, and one occasion, I needed to reach her while she out and the friend told me that my wife had actually gone out for coffee with the male friend. I had already told my wife that I'm fine with this guy as her friend, but that she needs to tell me if she's going to spend time with him. I think that's important, just as if the situation were reversed.

When she came home, I was embarrassed and angry, and asked what was up? She had told me that while visiting, she simply wanted to go to the coffee shop and chat there. I accepted it, but it's happened a few more times. I specifically told her "I'm not accusing you of cheating, but when you lie to me about going out with him, how can you possibly expect me to feel good about it?" She sees that as an accusation, and I honestly didn't mean it that way. The videos have come up twice, and only in passing in a link from a link from a link kind of way you can get with youtube. Even if I didn't mean it that way, she took it that way, and resented it.

The other thing: "When I told you that we were going to have a tough time paying for dance, you told me to drop it!" I honestly didn't say that. I don't think it. What I do think is that by not getting a job right after the kids went to public school last month, that's how she feels I see the situation. So, I disagree with her specifically, but understand how it makes her feel.

There were a lot of tears, but there was a lot of hugging. She held my hand at various times, though not at the initial torrent of feelings. While talking, she traced her finger on my leg. After the talk had settled down, she wanted to know how I felt. I told her I felt bad that I'd made her feel so bad, and I also am worried now: she's told people in her circle about the issues, and if there's one thing I'm sure of: those women are much quicker to say "Divorce his ass!" than any marriage counselor would be. I also feel bad that my reputation is dirt with these people, that even though we can work on these things together, I always be that jerk who doesn't appreciate her and should be alone. I'm worried that they'll continue to tell her to drop me, and that I'm just manipulating her.

I also told her that, while not attempting to defend myself for my shortcomings as a husband, can we talk about her seeing her male friend and not telling me about it. I reiterated that I KNOW she's not cheating on me, that it hurts me to the core when I find out that she's done that. It humiliates me and makes it tough for me to feel affectionate right away. She heard that, and didn't defend it. I asked her what's so important about that friendship that she it's not good enough to have it within the confines which I call fair: being honest. Again, she sat with me and remained in physical contact with me during all of this.

We had a snack together and settled in for bed, as it was now midnight, and she needed to be up for 5:30. She started crying then; no bawling her eyes out. "You're going to hate me now! You'll hate me!" I jumped up from my spot in bed, hugged her and told her that I love her. Over and over. She hugged me fiercely in return and told me that she loves me so much. After, she lay back on her side, so I snuggled her, put both arms around to hug her and kissed her cheek. She spun around, and made love to me with so much passion. She kissed deeply, she hugged, she held me so tight, and wanted me to do the same. She told me that she love with me and wants to be with me.

Yesterday, the day after our talk, I woke up and she was hugging me already, and kissing me on the cheek. Before getting up to get ready, she spent more time than usual in physical contact with me. She called to chit chat with me about her morning so far, and then in the afternoon she called to ask what I thought of playing Rock Band together that night, because she always enjoyed doing that with me. When she came home she saw that I had made some appointments that have needed making for awhile, and she liked that. She was super-excited when I told her that I may have a job starting soon (yes, I did that yesterday). She's never been the least bit concerned with me making a large amount of money, but is excited at my getting out there, I think.

I want to know what you think?

-She admitted that she has resentments that have built up, but that doesn't want to leave. That seems better than an out-and-out "I'm done with this."
-Is her still feeling emotional a good sign? What I mean is, it's not like she was a stone. There were real feelings there.
-Is it positive that she was so consistently in physical contact with me during the conversation and after?
-Am I right in worrying about these GFs of hers, who may try to stay in her ear? Is it ok to bring that up to her?
-While we were talking, I asked if she wanted us to go to marriage counseling. She had asked "Will you? Will you actually make an appointment?" I see that as her being willing to do that. That must be a positive sign?

I really hope you guys stick through this horrid wall of text. I know it doesn't impact your lives, and maybe it's all a bit banal, hearing a lot of this, but this been all I can think about since the other night.

I want to make this work so much, but I want to if you guys think she's still engaged in that.

Thanks a lot.

SH

PS - Please excuse typos or major mistakes in grammar.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You guys still have a chance but only because of two things that are very recent in your relationship;

1) Honesty & transparency
2) Both are willing to work on your marriage

So use it and make the most of it, keep communicating, and do counselling. Chill, it's not the end of the world... not yet anyway


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What I think... I think you have a chance to fix things. I think her finally getting all those resentments vented to you was a good thing, for her. I think that if the two of you can focus on renewing your relationship, you can build it better than it was before. I think your wife was close to being a walk-away-wife, or even being open to an affair , if the wrong person stepped in at the wrong time. But you stumbled across it, hopefully in time. 

If I was you, I wouldn't worry so much about the friends. They're just supporting her, whatever she wants to do. That's what many friends do... They just want what's best for their friend, whatever that is. They don't want to risk their friendship by going against the grain, you know?  So when your wife changes direction and tells them how things are going in a positive manner, they'll switch their talk quickly. 

Another thing I'd do if I was you... If you can, plan a getaway weekend without the kids. Reconnect with your wife. Date like you used to. And then keep that up. Read some books like "His Needs, Her Needs" and "The Love Languages" together. Keep the ball rolling in a positive direction. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulsearch (Aug 2, 2013)

I'd still be worried about the male friend she keeps sneaking off with.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Have you made the marriage counseling appointment yet?

Are you a SAHD homeschooling your children (not clear from your post)?

Why are you late picking her up so often?

Why did you wait so long to see a doctor?

Would you say by nature you are a procrastinator?

Her single male friend is an issue because she is not telling you when she has coffee with him alone. Read up on EA's. It doesn't mean she is in one...yet...but she has so much resentment towards you, it could develop into an EA/PA very easily.

As to the children, you are very wrong when you disagree with her & cut her off in front of the children. Parents need to take a united front first, then discuss privately disagreements later.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Keep monitoring her FB. See if she starts deleting her messages. Or passcodes her account.

Can you access the text messages on her phone?

Her actions following your confrontation can be taken two ways.

1.) She is genuinely remorseful, and wanted to show her love and affection. And to reconnect.

2.) She feels guilty because she got caught, and used the sex and affection to gaslight you.

Keep observing. Be Cool Hand Luke. Time will tell....

The toxic friends are bad news for your marriage, brother...


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Doesn't really sound like your problems are anything so huge that you can't work things out. Just sounds like you both let things slide, so resentment built up.

I would tell her that you are more than willing to work on things together, but the male friend HAS TO GO ! PERIOD !

Its simple, there can't be 3 people in a marriage.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

She is no longer to be around that OM. That is not a "friendship"
she was hiding being alone with him from you due to her feelings about that "friend". If she did not have a PA with him or at minimum enjoy a very romantic moment with him during these visits alone, then you are extremely lucky. I highly doubt it.
The sex she gave you that night and the physical attention you are getting is her way of reminding herself of what she is supposed to do. 
I hope for your sake I am wrong. She is doing and saying all the things you want and even though she was doing this with him and talking to her friends in the manner she was, since your confrontation about him, she is changing and hysterically bonding with you. That is because whether an emotional or physical the affair, you exposed what you knew and freaked her out. Do not be surprised if she takes her relationship with him underground. Enjoy what you have with her, but make sure you are on top of checking her phone for texts, secret text apps, her facebook etc.. Make sure you are very confident of where and when she spends her time, and do this with out her knowledge, so if there is a guard up, it will eventually relax.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Even though I doubt her male friend is a OM based on OP's post. I still highly recommend nogutsnoglory's approach in this:



> Enjoy what you have with her, but make sure you are on top of checking her phone for texts, secret text apps, her facebook etc..


Always keep your eyes open. Don't confront her about it, it'll just make her push it underground if it is truly an affair. Believe her, trust her, just keep tabs on everything.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Okay, so she used to be affectionate and attentive, then suddenly she wasn't. Spent her time at the end of the couch texting, facebook, etc. That's probably about the time she started seeing "male friend."

That's the way it works, in most cases. Suddenly she finds a thousand faults that you have. Almost always, it's because there's another man in the picture.

I'll bet the list of her faults and imperfections are about as long as your list. It's a classic "sign of a cheating spouse" to suddenly start become very critical of your spouse.

And stop apologizing for snooping into her facebook. She's your wife. Nothing should be hidden. Everything, including emails, texts, and yes, facebook should be an open book. With that said, start looking (quietly...don't let her know) into her phone records, texts, emails....all of that stuff to get an accurate picture of the nature of her relationship with the male friend. I'll bet it's a lot different than what you think it is. 

Once you can rule out cheating, then, and only then can you work on repairing your marriage.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

I will only comment on the homeschooling. I dont think its a good idea. Especially since you are new to the area and also you have some 'trouble' with your wife. 
Your kids wont make friends and you also wont make friends of their parents.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

accept1 said:


> I will only comment on the homeschooling. I dont think its a good idea. Especially since you are new to the area and also you have some 'trouble' with your wife.
> Your kids wont make friends and you also wont make friends of their parents.


Agreed

@OP

I know this is off-topic but personally from what I've seen; Homeschooling is simply NOT a good idea for your children

I've met quite enough socially inept outcasts in my time feeling sorry for them and hating their parents for homeschool thank you very much. No offense intended.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

sh987 said:


> I also told her that, while not attempting to defend myself for my shortcomings as a husband, can we talk about her seeing her male friend and not telling me about it. I reiterated that I KNOW she's not cheating on me, that it hurts me to the core when I find out that she's done that. It humiliates me and makes it tough for me to feel affectionate right away. She heard that, and didn't defend it. I asked her what's so important about that friendship that she it's not good enough to have it within the confines which I call fair: being honest. Again, she sat with me and remained in physical contact with me during all of this.
> 
> We had a snack together and settled in for bed, as it was now midnight, and she needed to be up for 5:30. She started crying then; no bawling her eyes out. "You're going to hate me now! You'll hate me!" I jumped up from my spot in bed, hugged her and told her that I love her. Over and over. She hugged me fiercely in return and told me that she loves me so much. After, she lay back on her side, so I snuggled her, put both arms around to hug her and kissed her cheek. She spun around, and made love to me with so much passion. She kissed deeply, she hugged, she held me so tight, and wanted me to do the same. She told me that she love with me and wants to be with me.


Call me an idiot but this would be worrisome. Her first response to your "hurt and humiliation" was, "You're going to hate me now". Why? Why now? "You'll hate me" What for? If this was a purely platonic relationship with OM then why hate?

Her next response is hysterical bonding sex. Guilt?

From looking at what you've shared there seems to be more to the story. As others have said, stay alert and try to find out the truth on this to your satisfaction.

The really good news is that she is talking and attempting transparency. For your sake I hope I've just read too many CWI threads.

~Passio


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate the time you took to read, consider and give your input. To answer some of the questions/points raised:

-Yes, I have booked the appointment for couples counseling. When I told her, she perked up and said she is looking forward to it.

-Yes, I've been a SAHD homeschooling the kids since we moved here 6 years ago. -Yes, I have a bad habit of procrastinating. I can't offer a good reason for waiting so long to see the doctor other than something so stupid: I was afraid of what he'd tell me. As if not hearing it would change my physical condition, right? Dumb of me. Why am I late picking her up? It's never any big reason, which I can guess would hurt her feelings all the more. Look, I'm not coming in here trying to come across as a hero or act like I've played no role in it. I have. We can only fix this with honesty and being open.

-She has a pay-as-you-go mobile phone which has sat unused for several months, and she never did any texting on it.

-I checked her message history on facebook with the OM (she doesn't use email to message), and they're so bland and non-sexual that it's not even funny. It's stuff like "So, how did it go at the dentist?", "Did people do anything to tick you off at work?", "Hubby and I watched a movie last night. What did you do?" And I read months and months and months worth. That's what it all its. And he never even really responds that much with something other than extremely banal answers. 

-To that extent, I still hate her seeing him without telling me. It's just an hour at a coffee shop (which I know for sure because it was during a time when our daughter was at dance). The other night I asked what she gets from that relationship that she's willing to lie to me about aspect of it, and she said she didn't know. There's NOTHING good that can come from it, especially if he decides that he wants to be more than friends and works against us. I've been thinking I'll let that drop until we go to our first counseling meeting in 5 days.

-Her friends. One one hand, I really hear what PBear said about them not wanting to go against the grain. Thing is, they're not really really close friends. One is a girl she re-connected with on facebook from her HS days, another a girl she sees once a week at dance class (and is more of a frenemy with, anyway). Those are the two who have loudly told her to drop me like a hot potato, and they're the ones I honestly fear the most. Another one she told is an actual friends of hers, who knows me, and what she told my wife is that she needs to talk to me and get me to pull my head out of my ass. She said nothing about dropping me. Still, the two are kinda bitter and tell her what she should do, and I don't want her to simpler listen to loudest person who tells her what she wants to hear. Also, I sincerely doubt my wife has mentioned her own shortcomings in the relationship. I wouldn't dream of going to friends (people who actually know her) to talk about the relationship aspects that I find lacking, and feel betrayed that she did it, and am bothered that there's people who think I'm a total heel after hearing only side of the problems in a marriage.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

accept1 said:


> I will only comment on the homeschooling. I dont think its a good idea. Especially since you are new to the area and also you have some 'trouble' with your wife.
> Your kids wont make friends and you also wont make friends of their parents.





RandomDude said:


> Agreed
> 
> @OP
> 
> ...


For what it's worth, the children are well adjusted, have lots of friends and are not outcasts in the least. While being homeschooled, they had a large amount of dealings with other kids, as we became members of a group for other homeschoolers.

I've met my share of socially inept people that went to public school, too. I just think people are more quick to point it out or notice when they see that a kid has been homeschooled.

Regardless, I'm absolutely not offended. 

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Idyit said:


> Call me an idiot but this would be worrisome. Her first response to your "hurt and humiliation" was, "You're going to hate me now". Why? Why now? "You'll hate me" What for? If this was a purely platonic relationship with OM then why hate?
> 
> Her next response is hysterical bonding sex. Guilt?


Oh, I can see that I didn't set the chronology of the story very well here. Her response of "you're going to hate me" wasn't right after I brought up the OM. It was actually about an hour and a half later, long after we'd moved on to me saying that I wished she hadn't told her GFs about our problems instead of coming to me, and now all of these people will always think I'm a tremendous jerk.

Then, she started bawling here eyes out.



> From looking at what you've shared there seems to be more to the story. As others have said, stay alert and try to find out the truth on this to your satisfaction.


Maybe there is; I have to admit that. 



> The really good news is that she is talking and attempting transparency. *For your sake I hope I've just read too many CWI threads.*
> 
> ~Passio


I hope so, too! lol


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I agree with you that she should not discuss her issues with you with multiple friends. Maybe a best friend or a trusted family member that can offer better advice than "dump" him. I would absolutely demand that any "bad-mouthing" of me stop. I'm lucky that both of my husbands have the good grace not to bad-mouth me to anybody except a professional counselor LOL.

I think you can ask her to stop meeting this man alone for coffee especially during this time of marital strife. She may refuse & accuse you of being controlling, jealous, etc. If she does that, then yes, bring it up in counseling. Also ask her how she would feel if you meet a random woman for alone coffee dates? The fact that he is an old HS friend is not an excuse for meeting privately. HS is long over & what do they have in common now?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's probably not an affair - with this particular man at the very least - at least not yet as she may have had designs on him but had not yet established mutual interest for an affair. Still you've only investigated one channel, check others.

Anyways emotional affairs can sometimes be one-sided as well, which is just as damaging. As for homeschool, well, I just hope you know what you are doing, they are your kids in the end so not my place to judge.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Emerald said:


> I agree with you that she should not discuss her issues with you with multiple friends. Maybe a best friend or a trusted family member that can offer better advice than "dump" him. I would absolutely demand that any "bad-mouthing" of me stop. I'm lucky that both of my husbands have the good grace not to bad-mouth me to anybody except a professional counselor LOL.


Yeah, I don't think it's too much to ask that she not bring up my negative points to these women. They don't have a stake in this, and so it's really easy for them to give flippant advice that doesn't affect their lives.



> I think you can ask her to stop meeting this man alone for coffee especially during this time of marital strife. She may refuse & accuse you of being controlling, jealous, etc. If she does that, then yes, bring it up in counseling. Also ask her how she would feel if you meet a random woman for alone coffee dates? The fact that he is an old HS friend is not an excuse for meeting privately. HS is long over & what do they have in common now?


Agreed on all points.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> It's probably not an affair - with this particular man at the very least - at least not yet as she may have had designs on him but had not yet established mutual interest for an affair. Still you've only investigated one channel, check others.
> 
> Anyways emotional affairs can sometimes be one-sided as well, which is just as damaging.


I don't think it is either, but it still hurts tremendously that she would engage in this. I hadn't put it in those terms to her before the other night, but I said it honestly and told her how much it pains me.



> As for homeschool, well, I just hope you know what you are doing, they are your kids in the end so not my place to judge.


Well, they ended up wanting to to public school this year, and I was happy to let them do that. We already knew that they get along very well with other kids, and also have found out that they're nicely ahead of the others in their class. I'm not one of "those parents" who thinks their kids is a genius. They're pretty normal/average kids, who each have their strong points in school, and others which need more refining. I guess it was just a good learning environment, and it's not like I have 30 kids to look after at the same time, unlike teachers.

SH


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

A few things I noticed. 

Seems like you have a problem taking a stand or being assertive. This was a problem of mine and my wife eventually told me that it cost me respect. I learned that wussing out to avoid a confrontation was causing more problems than I thought it was solving. 

You sound as if you are a mommas boy. You need to defend your wife to anyone, especially your mother. I can tell you, that right there would piss my wife off big time. 

You did not say what is physically wrong with you. But stop using it as an excuse for everything. Speaking as someone with a limiting disability. It does upset my wife when I push the envelope and use it as an excuse not to do something. 

Man up and take responsibility for what you have done and not done. Fighting the wrong accusations won't get you anywhere as there are way to many true ones. 

Overall I would think you have a chance. Start doing what you know you should be doing and get in counseling now. It's rare in these situations that both parties agree to do so. Start returning in spades that love and affection she is showing you. Your both gonna need to be all in for your marriage. There were wrong things done on both sides so one of you sitting back while the other does the heavy lifting is not an option. I am going to guess that if anything she only has a mild EA with this other guy. Reason for this being that she maintained physical contact with you when all this hit the fan. IMHO If she was fully involved and had feelings for him, and was thinking about leaving, it would have been super easy at that point to say she was through. 

Because there was lying involved in seeing him she has to understand the guy friend has got to go. She should write him a letter or email telling him this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

sh987 Clearing up the timeline does help. Whether this is an A or not I would suggest some serious work on you. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Married Man's Sex Life Primer" have often been suggested here. Might be a good starting point for you.

~Passio


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

A 2010 Cornell University study shows that divorce rates are higher for women who make more than their husbands. The study also showed that when a woman’s income far outpaces her husband’s she is also more likely to cheat on him, and to be dissatisfied with him as a husband, according to the research done in the study. Many women, your wife's friends included, think less of him as a man when she makes more than him. I am not saying that this is fair. But it is what it is. If you want to save your marraige, you need to put the children into school and get a job.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't think your wife is in an affair. There are so many people on this board burned by affairs that I think many will focus on the friendship with that man to the exclusion of other issues especially those where you're at fault and have been for a long time. However, this man could become a distraction when you two are trying to fix the marital issues, so it's good to end that friendship.

You need to clean up your side of the street as soon as possible. Spend too much time focusing on the male friend or the girlfriends on Facebook, and you will have a walk away wife for sure. Women often will validate what they think their friend wants to hear, so I wouldn't focus too much time on what her friends have said. They're not your biggest problem. 

You need to support your wife when your mother starts attacking your wife. You've been far too passive. A passive man is not an attractive man. When you let your mother walk all over your wife, basically you're telling your wife that 1) she has to put up with it so too bad, and 2) your mother is more important to you. 
My mother-in-law and I get along really well, but I can tell you if I had repeated incidents where my husband didn't speak up to defend me, I would be incredibly resentful at him. I can totally see your wife's point of view on this. 

Take responsibility for the things you've screwed up. By that I mean, it's not enough to say "I'm sorry." Words are easy to say. Make it better by consistent actions. Pick her up on time. Don't use your disability as a rationalization. Speak up more, be assertive, stop trying to be people pleaser and conflict avoider. Get in the best shape you can given your disability. Find a hobby and make some friends. Get a job for yourself. Surely there must be some kind of job you can do. I don't know the nature of your disability, but it doesn't sound like it's very confining if you're driving and able to get around.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> A few things I noticed.
> 
> Seems like you have a problem taking a stand or being assertive. This was a problem of mine and my wife eventually told me that it cost me respect. I learned that wussing out to avoid a confrontation was causing more problems than I thought it was solving.


Thanks for the response.

I think that's pretty accurate. I grew up in a home with constant yelling and screaming and arguing between my parents over every little thing that happened. I've always done my best to make sure our kids don't have that for an environment, and so there's been times that I let stuff go that I didn't agree with, to save a possible argument.

I suppose that it's less a matter of how many times you disagree than how you deal with each other when those disagreements come up.



> You sound as if you are a mommas boy. You need to defend your wife to anyone, especially your mother. I can tell you, that right there would piss my wife off big time.


I don't blame my wife for feeling that way, because I've been inconsistent in how I deal with my mother. Sometimes I've done really well, other times I know I've let my wife down. When we moved here, my family followed within a few months, and that put more pressure on us. I love my mother, but she just moved almost 4,000 km away, so I think it will help.



> You did not say what is physically wrong with you. But stop using it as an excuse for everything. Speaking as someone with a limiting disability. It does upset my wife when I push the envelope and use it as an excuse not to do something.


I should say more clearly what's happened: I let the problem control me, and didn't do enough to work around. I let it hit my confidence to get out and about. I hope nothing I said seems like an excuse so much as my being honest that I didn't handle it well.



> Man up and take responsibility for what you have done and not done. Fighting the wrong accusations won't get you anywhere as there are way to many true ones.


Well. I did say that she was right about so many of those things. I didn't defend myself to her about, and haven't here. It's still good to have you hammer that home, though. Like I said earlier, I'm not here to portray myself as a victim or hero, and feel like I've been pretty honest about my shortcomings.




> Overall I would think you have a chance. Start doing what you know you should be doing and get in counseling now. It's rare in these situations that both parties agree to do so. Start returning in spades that love and affection she is showing you. Your both gonna need to be all in for your marriage. There were wrong things done on both sides so one of you sitting back while the other does the heavy lifting is not an option. I am going to guess that if anything she only has a mild EA with this other guy. Reason for this being that she maintained physical contact with you when all this hit the fan. IMHO If she was fully involved and had feelings for him, and was thinking about leaving, it would have been super easy at that point to say she was through.
> 
> Because there was lying involved in seeing him she has to understand the guy friend has got to go. She should write him a letter or email telling him this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Appoint with marriage counselor: booked! We go in 5 days, the earliest one I could get. She was happy to hear it.

And yes, the old male friend has to go. Her beahviours regarding him have made it necessary.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

TRy said:


> A 2010 Cornell University study shows that divorce rates are higher for women who make more than their husbands. The study also showed that when a woman’s income far outpaces her husband’s she is also more likely to cheat on him, and to be dissatisfied with him as a husband, according to the research done in the study. Many women, your wife's friends included, think less of him as a man when she makes more than him. I am not saying that this is fair. But it is what it is. If you want to save your marraige, you need to put the children into school and get a job.


Well, the kids are back in school already; just this past September.

I'm not sure if I placed enough emphasis on it in my first post, but I actually hit the streets yesterday, and have lined up work which starts next week. It's not a ton of money, but it's earned, and she was really pumped to hear about it.

I did the stay-at-home dad thing more at her wishes than mine. While it made her happy with how the kids' education was going, I'm wondering if it had bad effect, even subliminally to her, regarding my "manliness" as a bread winner. She's always said I'm great at it, and says she sees no reason why a man shouldn't be the at-home while the wife works, but maybe she's fighting millions of years of evolution when she says that, because she wants to sound supportive. In other words, maybe she couldn't help but resent it. I had always worked full-time before. Hell, I *met* her at work.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> You need to clean up your side of the street as soon as possible. Spend too much time focusing on the male friend or the girlfriends on Facebook, and you will have a walk away wife for sure. Women often will validate what they think their friend wants to hear, so I wouldn't focus too much time on what her friends have said. They're not your biggest problem.


I've had similar thoughts in my head: just telling her I didn't like that behaviour made her feel like I think of her as a cheater, even though I made it clear that I didn't think so. I worry that if I bring it up again ("he has to go") might not push her further in that direction.

Same with the friends: have they already told her "He'll try to isolate you from people who will try to help."? I was thinking a simple "I won't ask you not to see your friends, but I want to talk about our issues with a marriage counselor instead". 



> You need to support your wife when your mother starts attacking your wife. You've been far too passive. A passive man is not an attractive man. When you let your mother walk all over your wife, basically you're telling your wife that 1) she has to put up with it so too bad, and 2) your mother is more important to you.
> My mother-in-law and I get along really well, but I can tell you if I had repeated incidents where my husband didn't speak up to defend me, I would be incredibly resentful at him. I can totally see your wife's point of view on this.


I agree 100% I know that I've really screwed that up there with my inconsistency. Not to excuse myself but, she does the same thing with her mother, btw. Exactly the same.



> Take responsibility for the things you've screwed up. By that I mean, it's not enough to say "I'm sorry." Words are easy to say. Make it better by consistent actions. Pick her up on time. Don't use your disability as a rationalization. Speak up more, be assertive, stop trying to be people pleaser and conflict avoider. Get in the best shape you can given your disability. Find a hobby and make some friends. Get a job for yourself. Surely there must be some kind of job you can do. I don't know the nature of your disability, but it doesn't sound like it's very confining if you're driving and able to get around.


I agree with all of that. For what it's worth, I tried to let my actions indicate my willingness to change yesterday, the day after our talk.

I booked a session with a marriage counselor. I went looking for a job and found one I'll start at next week (she didn't ask me to do that, but I think it can only help). I booked some appointments she's asked about a bunch of time. I signed up for a ball hockey league that gets me out on Sundays. My health problems didn't stop me from being active all the time, but more played games with me because an acute situation could pop up any time, which I allowed to diminish my confidence in going out and getting involved. "Yeah, I could go do that, but what if I have to go to the hospital?" I shouldn't have let that happen.

I appreciate your observations. Thanks a lot.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Idyit said:


> sh987 Clearing up the timeline does help. Whether this is an A or not I would suggest some serious work on you. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Married Man's Sex Life Primer" have often been suggested here. Might be a good starting point for you.
> 
> ~Passio


Thanks a lot! I'll check out those books.

SH


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## bagdon (Jun 7, 2013)

I think you're going to be alright. You seem transparent with us and you're taking action.
Blessings to you and your family.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

There is a book "no more mr nice guy" that was recommended to me for my lack of asertiveness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> There is a book "no more mr nice guy" that was recommended to me for my lack of asertiveness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for the suggestion. I saw it mentioned earlier and found a link for it.

Wow.

Kind of a slap in the face of what I'm like. Seriously, it's like seeing myself described to a T, if I'm being perfectly honest with myself.

SH


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

This is a link to the asertiveness thread I started here a few weeks ago. Hopefully there is something in it that you can use. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ive-without-trampling-her-feelings-needs.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> This is a link to the asertiveness thread I started here a few weeks ago. Hopefully there is something in it that you can use.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ive-without-trampling-her-feelings-needs.html
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Damn. All of this help from you folks for a perfect stranger.

You lot are great.

SH


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

sh987 said:


> Wow.
> 
> Kind of a slap in the face of what I'm like. Seriously, it's like seeing myself described to a T, if I'm being perfectly honest with myself.
> 
> SH


Well you are like me in that regard. I have begun a personality overhaul and changed many things about myself. Initially it was done to restore my sex life because my wife said she could of have sex with someone she did not respect. As such I resented changing but figured it was worth a try. I'm probably about 50% there, still a long way to go. But I like the person I have become more than the person I was. Our sex life is also coming back like gangbusters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

sh987 said:


> Damn. All of this help from you folks for a perfect stranger.
> 
> You lot are great.
> 
> SH


In these days of throw away everything (including marriages), anyone looking to save their marriage is worth helping. Just be careful what you read on this site. There is a lot of pain here and people in some real bad situations. Read too much of it and you will start to misread everything your wife does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> Well you are like me in that regard. I have begun a personality overhaul and changed many things about myself. Initially it was done to restore my sex life because my wife said she could of have sex with someone she did not respect. As such I resented changing but figured it was worth a try. I'm probably about 50% there, still a long way to go. But I like the person I have become more than the person I was. Our sex life is also coming back like gangbusters.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to say that in our case, one aspect which I think is a good indication, is that we've consistently kept love making in the mix. It wasn't as involved as it was before, it hasn't been as close as it was before every single time (though at times it absolutely has been) but it's always been there. 

It couldn't have hurt, having the physical side of things to keep us a bit closer when we obviously weren't always on the same page.

BTW, it's great to hear that taking in what the book offers has helped you guys. 

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> In these days of throw away everything (including marriages), anyone looking to save their marriage is worth helping.


I agree, though the internet can also be a place of "go to hell" at various times. Luckily, people around here are obviously decent.




> Just be careful what you read on this site. There is a lot of pain here and people in some real bad situations. Read too much of it and you will start to misread everything your wife does.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I did notice some gloom and doom. If she ignores me, that's bad. If she wants to do stuff with me, that's bad. What the hell?

For what it's worth, yesterday was a good day between us. Nothing forced, no overly-attached times where we were obviously working. She was clearly relaxed and happy.

Today, after I picked her up from work, it was even better. Said hello to the kids, went to our room, and she wanted to talk and tell me how happy she was that we finally cleared the air with so many things. Said she was sorry to talk about that stuff with her friends, and that they were the ones who made a bigger deal of it than anything.

I don't think that means that everything is now perfect. Definitely not. We'll go to counseling and work on things, and she said she's looking forward to it. It took years to get here, and a couple of talks don't make those things disappear.

SH


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

I would say you have a good start going. Keep it up. Like you said it took a few years to get here. It will probably take 6 months to a year to get fully out of it. Something I learned recently, when discussing past problems. Don't just say your sorry for doing the things you did. Ask her to forgive you As well. It's on a whole different level. When you ask for forgiveness it causes your partner to make a consious decision to let it go and put it in the past or not. for my wife and I it is helping us put problems behind us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Have you and your wife read the book not just friends?

It could be an eye opener.

If she did anything with the friend, she needs to get tested for stds. You may need to explore this relationship, and you need the truth, if she cheated.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> I would say you have a good start going. Keep it up. Like you said it took a few years to get here. It will probably take 6 months to a year to get fully out of it. Something I learned recently, when discussing past problems. *Don't just say your sorry for doing the things you did. Ask her to forgive you As well.* It's on a whole different level. When you ask for forgiveness it causes your partner to make a consious decision to let it go and put it in the past or not. for my wife and I it is helping us put problems behind us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seems like really good advice to me, and something I hadn't thought of. Makes complete sense.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> Have you and your wife read the book not just friends?
> 
> It could be an eye opener.
> 
> If she did anything with the friend, she needs to get tested for stds. You may need to explore this relationship, and you need the truth, if she cheated.


No, but it seems like a book that could be good. I was thinking the counselor, when we see him/her, may also want to talk about perhaps reading a book like that.

Thanks for the suggestion.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Off to the marriage counselor in about 5 minutes. Feeling kinda nervous, not 100% what to expect, but hope it goes well. I suppose the good thing is that Mrs. sh987 and I have been talking consistently over the week, and it's been good around here. Also, she sees the appt as very positive, and was extremely glad I scheduled it.

Said that she had to admit that she's not good at bringing up problems and then lets it go, which feels worse over time, and said that she doesn't want that.

All in all, it's positive, but I can't help but feel nervous.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Update (two weeks later)
-----------------------------

Things have been going pretty well since my first post. 

-We've talked quite a bit (though we've made sure that it doesn't dominate our time together) about how we feel about things. I read and then re-read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and it really did open my eyes to telling her what I'm thinking and feeling, even if it IS something which may lead to a difference of opinion or even an argument.

-She told me how it makes her so happy to know what I'm feeling, even if I was unhappy about something. She said there were times where she finally tried to start fights me, just to see if she was capable of provoking deep feelings in me. I apologized for my distance. For the first time in my life, I talked a lot more about the issues in my childhood, many of which are extremely unfortunate and abusive, and led me to try to control myself so much, and how I see what it's done to our relationship at time. When we talked about those things, she literally had a bunch of "Ooooooh! THAT makes so much sense, SH!" We talked about family issues, race issues (we're an interracial couple and, to be honest, NEITHER family has ever been in love with it).


-A few days after my initial post, I talked to her about the old male friend, and what she's done in the past, re: lying about hanging out with him. I told her that I'm not in the business of telling her who she can be friends or buddies with, and that I don't want to be her only friend in life. I want her to have friends. "But not him anymore; not him from now on, because you lied to me about different times that you spent with him. It's unacceptable for me to do that to you, and it's just as unacceptable for you to do that to me." She didn't start crying or panic or anything like that. She hugged me very close and said "I'll do anything to make our marriage work." She told me that she'd sent a few email to him from work over the years, all mundane stuff: "how was the dentist?", etc? It all jibed with what I already knew. She removed OM and his roommate couple whom she'd befriended as well.

-I've tried to take the lead more. Instead answering questions like "what do you want for supper?" with "I dunno" or "whatever you like; it makes no difference to me" I gave her actual answers. Last Thursday, I told her she's busy on Saturday and don't make any plans. When she wanted to know why, I told her that I'm taking her out, and she'd see when we got there. Late on Saturday, after a *great* night out for us, and after giving it to me damned good at home, she told me she'd spent so much time since Thursday so excited. She was filled with anticipation, wondering where we could be going, what to wear, etc. "I've been kinda giddy, I've had butterflies in my stomach!".

-It's easy to become complacent when you've been together for so long, particularly without huge drama during that time. You can just come to picture that person always being there, but don't picture what you should be doing to keep that person there. I've screwed up by not giving her those butterflies more often. She told me something similar.

-This may sound crazy... I think she's kind of relieved that I told her "no more OM". She said that since she doesn't like her own brothers much, she had always had that sort of relationship with him. Again, I've seen the types of messages between them, and there were the very definition of non-sexual... "I'm sorry about the times I spent all evening on fb..." [talking all sort of friends, all girls other than OM] ", and wasn't available to you. I want you to trust me." She wants to sit together on the couch, under the blanket, and hold hands. She'll play with my ear and smile when I look at her. Lovemaking has been very nice, with an equal amount of initiation. SHE has been kissing ME, and that's such a thrill. Heaven. Whereas before, sex seemed like a battle to get through flannel, she comes to me completely naked. Nothing between us.

-We had our first meeting with the MC, and it went well. It was sort of funnny, but once we got there, we ended up talking more about the talks we'd already had, each admitting things that we hadn't done as well as we could have. He said it was great to see a couple come in who'd started on homework before he'd given them any.

-There's a lot more in there of the general daily comings and goings of a married couple, but those are the bigger points. In the meantime, we've taken the girl to birthday parties, and hung out, gone for walks, and did the sorts of things we always did. But man, I'm not feeling that distance that was there, and can I ever see what I did to add to it.

-I have to be honest and admit that I was always fairly terrified of having a fight. I watched my parents yell and scream and tear into each other in the cruelest ways possible, and I knew I didn't want that for me and my kids.... 

But it doesn't have to be that way. She saw into me and didn't think I was so bad. I let out genuine emotion (in this case, it was some resentment) and she didn't say "Well, that's it for you!" I think I'm finally figuring out that if you have a woman that wants in, and you let her in, AMAZING things can happen. 

Awaiting the inevitable negative responses, but am here to say that I'm feeling confident.

SH


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that as a general rule women don't respect stay at home dads. I think you should reconsider this; I myself have two close friends with stay at home husbands/dads and I know that neither one of them respects their husbands. I'm not saying it isn't an important job or that you don't work hard, just that it's counter to a woman's natural instinct to look for a provider. One of my friends told me this: "if I ever find myself single I'm going to find someone with a job that takes the stress off of me". She doesn't want to quit her job, she just wants her hb to get one. Unfortunately, he's been home for so long that he doesn't have very good projects.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that as a general rule women don't respect stay at home dads. I think you should reconsider this; I myself have two close friends with stay at home husbands/dads and I know that neither one of them respects their husbands. I'm not saying it isn't an important job or that you don't work hard, just that it's counter to a woman's natural instinct to look for a provider. One of my friends told me this: "if I ever find myself single I'm going to find someone with a job that takes the stress off of me". She doesn't want to quit her job, she just wants her hb to get one. Unfortunately, he's been home for so long that he doesn't have very good projects.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I brought up this issue: two things.

-She's adamant that she has absolutely no problems with this. Work (be it in or out of the house) and money are collective, shared, etc, and says that I always took care of my responsibilities here, and better than she could have at that. 

-It doesn't matter, anyway. You may well have missed it in my earlier posts, but I got a job already. 

SH


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

sh987 said:


> I brought up this issue: two things.
> 
> -She's adamant that she has absolutely no problems with this. Work (be it in or out of the house) and money are collective, shared, etc, and says that I always took care of my responsibilities here, and better than she could have at that.
> 
> ...


Oops, I did miss it. Kudos to you! 
Women will say they don't care but 
many times it's not true, they just don't want to look like a jerk. Kinda like "really honey, those 50 pounds don't bother me at all! You're still taking care of business". Either way it doesn't matter for you now. Carry on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bagdon (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm happy for you. Carry on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Update... About five weeks after my first post... I don't know if anybody will read or care, but here it is.

Things are going so well right now!

We've been spending more time together. We'll go out for tea in the evening while our daughter is at swim lessons, and we've gone out for dinner a couple of times. Last Wed, she asked if I would like to have lunch with her on Friday, so I went up to her office with one of her favorites: sushi. She asks if I'd like to go for a walk with her (yes, I go). When we're out, her hand searches for mine (she had always liked to hold hands and so did I, but she was doing that less in the last year). Her back used to bother her tremendously, and she knows that my back does, so she invited me to sign up for her pilates class with her. "It would help you, and it's something we can do together." Last week, she asked what I thought of doing jigsaw puzzles together, after the kids go to bed. I'd never really messed with them much before, but she did years ago, so I thought it was a nice idea, and was she right. It's just us and the puzzle, with no TV or computers. She pulls up a chair really close, and sometimes she'll lean in and give me a kiss on the cheek, play with my hair, playfully tease me by rubbing her breasts against me, etc. I'll sit with her on the couch or she'll come and sit with me: I'll put my arm around her, and she'll nuzzle in, play with my hair, stroke my cheek, kiss, etc. The other night, with the kids in bed for the night, she even reached under the blanket for.. Well... You know. Wow. Anyway, I'm talking about real quality time here, and it's been fabulous. No more of her on FB or me mucking about on the computer all night.

I've surprised her a couple of times with gifts. They're just little things, but they seemed to make a big impression. I gave her a little solar plastic flower that swings about and grins, so she could put it on her desk. The other night, whilst out for tea, I gave her a bracelet I'd made with inexpensive beads in the shape of hearts. I am NOT a crafty guy, and the entire packet of beads and stretch cord cost only about $5, but you'd have thought I'd given her the Hope Diamond. She couldn't stop grinning for (and I'm serious) about two hours, and she's worn the silly thing wherever she goes. I've caught her looking at it, smiling. On the weekend, I surprised her by making her favorite: Chinese food, including deep-fried shrimp.

We're going away for an old friend's wedding next weekend: our first weekend alone and away from the kids since they were born. We're both excited. She's been planning where we can stop on the way, asking about where we can eat. She could barely sit still when I booked our hotel room, and talked about songs to listen, little games we can play in the car. She bought an audio book of "The 5 Love Languages" and is hoping it will be a good listen with lots of helpful info for us. Next year, another GF of hers is getting married on the other side of the country, and she's excited about getting away for that, too.

It's funny how you can not see the way you affect people in your life. I used to write little notes and stick them in her lunch bag. "I love you", "You're smart and beautiful", that sort of thing. A few weeks back, I started doing it, and she told me how special it always was to her, and how it hurt her feelings when it stopped. I had no idea. The next day, she brought home a surprise from work: every single little not I'd ever put in her bag. She kept them all! I'll keep it mind just how much it means to her.

She's been talking about future plans: what she'd like to do when the kids are grown up and left: where we might like to live, what type of house we could get after selling this one. She talks about the things we could do together, based on where we might be living. When she looks at her future, she sees me there. BTW, this is an important note: she had always talked about those sorts of things, even when communication was struggling and we weren't as close. She thinks that we went through a "rough patch", but feels like it's been an opportunity to learn from our mistakes. She instituted a "rule" which is really nice: no more little quick peck for a kiss. Instead, she wants to show love by taking the time to give a real kiss. 

She's been closer sexually as well. She playfully teases and touches when we're alone. She's invited me to join her for a shower a few times. She's *very* kissy (it's a real word now) and passionate a lot of the time in bed now, and things have really really picked up in the foreplay department, which had really cooled down over time. Over the last five weeks, other than a few days where her period was pretty heavy, we've made love every night save twice, with initiating being a very 50/50 thing. The other night, we'd made love and fallen asleep, when she woke me up at 3 AM for more.

Anyway, for those that read this, thanks for checking it out. I think that when people are honest with each other, work to move past their own hurt and resentments, and are willing to accept their own share in a relationship's problem, it can work. So far, it's working well for us.

SH


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## bagdon (Jun 7, 2013)

sh987 said:


> Anyway, for those that read this, thanks for checking it out. I think that when people are honest with each other, work to move past their own hurt and resentments, and are willing to accept their own share in a relationship's problem, it can work. So far, it's working well for us.
> 
> SH


Alright! YES! (Fist pump!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Excellent progress!

Have you read "The Five Love Languages" yet?


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Excellent progress!
> 
> Have you read "The Five Love Languages" yet?


I've read the first few chapters, but put the rest on hold so that we can listen to the audio book (which she bought last week) on our trip next weekend. It's a 13-hour drive, so we'll have plenty of time. It was hard to put it down, and I'm not lying when I said that it literally made me excited: it can help me see exactly what will make her happy. Funny thing was, she said pretty much the same thing on her own.

SH


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Thanks for sharing the update. Really enjoy reading the "success" stories on here.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

most of us remain here to learn and help others in their rough moments in life, and even when many times the best option for many users is divorce for their own good, I have to accept that is refreshing and energizing read stories like yours, where the problems were noticed and treated before any major issue.

I hope you keep increasing the bond between you and your wife to get to the point where one day your only concern would be which gifts to buy buy to your grand kids.

wish you the best of the lucks and never take your wife for granted.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Noble1 said:


> Thanks for sharing the update. Really enjoy reading the "success" stories on here.


Glad it's noticed and appreciated. To be honest, I try not to read too too much around here, because sometimes the tone is so negative. A lot of people here have been burned pretty badly.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

manticore said:


> most of us remain here to learn and help others in their rough moments in life, and even when many times the best option for many users is divorce for their own good, I have to accept that is refreshing and energizing read stories like yours, where the problems were noticed and treated before any major issue.
> 
> *I hope you keep increasing the bond between you and your wife to get to the point where one day your only concern would be which gifts to buy buy to your grand kids.*
> 
> wish you the best of the lucks and never take your wife for granted.


Thanks. That's what we're shooting for.

SH


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## DeusEx (Mar 7, 2013)

Seems like there are getting a little more threads with a ''Happy Ending''. Like a few months ago I barely can remember any good endings actually. Most ending with divorce or continuing an unhappy mariage for whatever the reasons.

And again I'll say what I like to say: taking actions works wonders instead of just wornds and no game. People who took action and are doing great so far: Sh987, bagdon, Blacksmith01 and BashfulBull(as good as it can be for them), Thornburn too I suppose. A pretty good tendency I would say.

Now if we could just manage to convince other nice guys/girls to stop being afraid of taking action and stop thinking/takling/promising to do stuff that would be great. 

And the trolls... Need to deal with them too somehow. If we do that AND this that would really be great.

NOTE: I mostly read CWI, General Relationships, Sex in Marriage, Considering Divocre and sometimes The Family & Parenting Forums. So I might just be on the gloomy side side of the forum I dunno.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Only been a week since my last update, but I thought I would go for it anyway. I've forgotten to mention things, and it's also a chance to post the weeks' doings. A bit of an online relationship journal.

-A few weeks ago, I told my wife that I had booked an appointment for individual counseling, and she nearly jumped out of her socks, she was so happy. My appointments have been good thus far, and the counselor has challenged me in ways that I didn't expect: asking me questions about myself that really made me think, as well as offering perspectives that I hadn't considered. This has been very good, and was long overdue, and Mrs. SH987 told me how proud she is that I've gone.

-Things continue to be vastly improved between us. She'll often come over to where I sit on the couch, bring a blanket and curl up underneath with me. If I put my arm around her, she leans right in, snuggles into me, and wraps an arm around me. I'll look down and see her grinning and looking happy. She started sending me emails during the day, and we go back and forth on that.

-She had Friday off, and it was a fine day. My daughter had an early dentist appointment before school, so I told my wife I could take the girl in on my own so she could have some free time to herself (she doesn't always get a lot of it). When I came back, I'd picked up her favorite coffee, and we hung out for a bit. We went for a couple of walks that day, and had a marvelous time. 

-She talked about how she's seen improvement in the areas I promised to better myself in, and how she's been working to improve in her areas, too. "I tend to internalize things so much, and I turned benign things into personal hurt... Rather than bring up our problems, sometimes I talked them over in my head, imagining what you might say. Sometimes, I even got mad about your 'responses', if you can believe that, and felt some resentment over how I guessed you saw things. I'm sorry about that. I took away your chance to tell me how you felt, and I won't do that anymore."

-On the heels of that, I'll note that last Wed, we had some discord. We had a disagreement but it worked out really well. We talked about it, and all with no further hurt feelings. Before, that would have been skipped, all because I didn't want to repeat my parents' mistakes of screaming and yelling, and for her because her parents hid every argument from their kids (so she never saw things get worked out; only her mother giving her Dad the silent treatment for weeks at a time). Disagreements are a couple's chance to bring out their bad sides, but I've observed that it's also a chance to show your love despite not completely agreeing at the moment. 

-This past weekend was her birthday, and I kept her in suspense as to what we'd be doing in the evening, after our guests left the party. I had prepared a bag of gifts for her, including ballet tickets for that very night, earrings in her birthstone and then some cute little homemade things I did for her. So, we went to the show and she (looking gorgeous) wore her new dress and shoes. We had a great time, and I thought my hand in danger of squeezing off, she held it so tightly as we watched. A couple of times I noticed her looking at me, beaming. After, I took her out to her favorite restaurant for a late dinner.

*** LOL***
I just checked my email, and she sent one about 10 minutes ago, talking about what an awesome weekend it was, how she was so happy to share time together, snuggle into my arm and hold hands at the ballet, and how much she loves her earrings, saying she's had a bunch of "Oooohs" and "Aaaaahs" over them. I could see that she liked them. She NEVER pushes her hair back over her ears, but she did it today. haha!

-Thing continue to go well in the physical department between us. Jeez Louise... Last night, the kids were hanging about in the evening, in and out of the living room. We were sitting on the couch tucked under a blanket, reading and discussing stuff we saw on reddit (we really like doing that). At one point she leaned in very close and whispered "Mannnnn, I want their bedtimes to get here already. I want you so bad. I *need* you so bad." That's one of those King of the World moments right there. No, that's wrong. King of the World was about an hour later, when she followed through on what she said.

-I'm a pretty happy son of a gun these days.

SH


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I know this is bad, bad, bad, but I'm going to respond even though I only got 2/3 through the original post and read NONE of the replies

You guys talk bout a cheaters script? This is a WAW script. To a TEE!! I'll bet I can finish that original post BLIND and get pretty close to what the OP wrote. But there is no WAW script, is there? So this guy comes on with NO IDEA his wife had walked. He was FLOORED!!! How are we letting this happen in this day and age.

Yes, you're too late. They RARELY come back. Too bad nobody had the foresight to warn you about it.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

MrK said:


> I know this is bad, bad, bad, but I'm going to respond even though I only got 2/3 through the original post and read NONE of the replies
> 
> You guys talk bout a cheaters script? This is a WAW script. To a TEE!! I'll bet I can finish that original post BLIND and get pretty close to what the OP wrote. But there is no WAW script, is there? So this guy comes on with NO IDEA his wife had walked. He was FLOORED!!! How are we letting this happen in this day and age.
> 
> Yes, you're too late. They RARELY come back. Too bad nobody had the foresight to warn you about it.


Your time is you own to spend as you wish, but perhaps you can go through the rest of the thread, including updates from me, before you make up your mind too much?

SH


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

MrK said:


> I know this is bad, bad, bad, but I'm going to respond even though I only got 2/3 through the original post and read NONE of the replies
> 
> You guys talk bout a cheaters script? This is a WAW script. To a TEE!! I'll bet I can finish that original post BLIND and get pretty close to what the OP wrote. But there is no WAW script, is there? So this guy comes on with NO IDEA his wife had walked. He was FLOORED!!! How are we letting this happen in this day and age.
> 
> Yes, you're too late. They RARELY come back. Too bad nobody had the foresight to warn you about it.


Your response is so off the mark because you didn't take the time to read the ENTIRE thread. He has an update. His update shows the dramatic change for the better in his marital relationship. Read an entire thread through before you respond.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: Re: Please tell me it's not too late*



MrK said:


> I know this is bad, bad, bad, but I'm going to respond even though I only got 2/3 through the original post and read NONE of the replies
> 
> You guys talk bout a cheaters script? This is a WAW script. To a TEE!! I'll bet I can finish that original post BLIND and get pretty close to what the OP wrote. But there is no WAW script, is there? So this guy comes on with NO IDEA his wife had walked. He was FLOORED!!! How are we letting this happen in this day and age.
> 
> Yes, you're too late. They RARELY come back. Too bad nobody had the foresight to warn you about it.


Come on K, give it a read before you compare it to your M.

Is there a dislike icon?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

sh987 said:


> I went to send a message to one of her GFs and was floored. Absolutely devastated. There were messages saying things like how she knew what she needed to, but wanted to make sure the kids were dealt with first, "he won't get violent, but he'll try to manipulate me", "when I told him to get a job, he refused", and "he accuses me of cheating". Her GF's responses were all of the "Yeah! Leave him! Kick him to the curb if he can't see how awesome you are!". They were like that, but only very recently.
> 
> What I saw there screamed at me "SHE'S GOING TO LEAVE YOU!"
> 
> ...and then went to our room, and I'll admit it: I was crying...


That was 5 weeks ago. Then the crying made it worse. Was ready to leave him. Started getting his replacement set.

What changed all of that? The "new him" that she saw in just a couple of weeks time or the fear that she was really about to lose everything, and not on her terms yet? You would be AMAZED at how much my wife can pretend she really loves me when she needs to.

Good luck man. This ain't over. One of the few walk-aways I've EVER seen go back on this board and she did it in a couple weeks? Truly a miracle. If you BELIEVE in miracles, that is.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Has she dropped the toxic friends who were advocating the demise of your marriage? Cheering her on? Or is she still FB'ing them regularly?


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

MrK said:


> That was 5 weeks ago. Then the crying made it worse. Was ready to leave him. Started getting his replacement set.
> 
> What changed all of that? The "new him" that she saw in just a couple of weeks time or the fear that she was really about to lose everything, and not on her terms yet? You would be AMAZED at how much my wife can pretend she really loves me when she needs to.
> 
> Good luck man. This ain't over. One of the few walk-aways I've EVER seen go back on this board and she did it in a couple weeks? Truly a miracle. If you BELIEVE in miracles, that is.


What can I do with her other than try to be a better husband and see the positive signs from her where I do? I acknowledged my mistakes and she acknowledged hers. She heard my apologies and accepted them. She sat in front of me, held my hand, and apologized for her part in our dysfunction, said she could never live down having lied and speaking ill of me, and said she would spend the rest of her life proving to me and showing me how much she loves me. 

I guess I could look at how she wants to spend time with me, is accepting of my gifts and overtures, asked me to sign up for a pilates class with her, asked me to take her to work a little bit later than usual, talks about our future plans, makes love with all of her heart. I could take those as her pretending. Wants to go for a walk with me? Lies. I could take waking up in the middle of the night and finding her asleep with her arm around me as a lie. Wants to have quiet time doing a hobby together? Obvious subterfuge to find somebody else. I could take her waking me up in the middle of the night as her just waiting for something better. I could take her absolutely jumping my bones at 10 PM as a lie, and then her wanting more at 5 AM as sure proof that she's not actually interested me...

I could take that all as a lie. I could take it as her biding her time and waiting for something better. And you know what? It would almost assuredly happen, because my attitude would sell that to her. Treat her like a walk-away and I will foster that in her. And also: Jeez, what would what say about me that I'm so paranoid that I would take all of the positives and spin them into negatives.

All I can do is look for the positive signs I see in our relationship and do my part to make sure they continue, because I know this: if we DON'T try to fix it then it won't work for sure.



MrK said:


> Has she dropped the toxic friends who were advocating the demise of your marriage? Cheering her on? Or is she still FB'ing them regularly?


She did drop them, for what it's worth. Not much, if I'm getting a proper read from you here.

Cheers.

SH


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## bagdon (Jun 7, 2013)

MrK said:


> I know this is bad, bad, bad, but I'm going to respond even though I only got 2/3 through the original post and read NONE of the replies
> 
> You guys talk bout a cheaters script? This is a WAW script. To a TEE!! I'll bet I can finish that original post BLIND and get pretty close to what the OP wrote. But there is no WAW script, is there? So this guy comes on with NO IDEA his wife had walked. He was FLOORED!!! How are we letting this happen in this day and age.
> 
> Yes, you're too late. They RARELY come back. Too bad nobody had the foresight to warn you about it.


Booooooo! Mrk... Smh

You're blessed SH; keep us encouraged with your progress.

I hope things turnaround for you too Mrk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I stand corrected. I have now read his entire OP. He got lucky. 14 years of resentment excused just by busting her. Good show. And all he had to do was rugsweep the entire emotional affair. And a little hysterical bonding to make the rugsweep complete. She's all-in now, huh? Lucky you.

But here's what's going to happen. She'll never forget what you can really be like. Neither will you. I feel you got the true benefit of the MrK kick in the gut. There is NO WAY you are ever again going to be the man that could force away the woman you love now. I know that. I lived it. I've been cured for three years now. I'm a new man. Living proof that you CAN change.

But you are not perfect. Neither am I. You'll slip up. And you will slip up at the worst possible time. And you will feel all of the oxygen sucked out of the room as you watch your marriage problems go right back to square one. One step forward, three steps back. "You haven't changed at all". She won't even need to say it, but it will echo in the room.

Now. Before all of you line up to slay me, just think back and try to remember how many times you've told a wife "they don't change". Add that thought to your mindset before you crucify me.

Good luck OP. I hope I'm wrong. The TAM archive says I'm not.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I think your honesty with her to see her points were probably your biggest strong point here. You looked at yourself, you admitted to her that she was right and seemingly understood what she was saying. I think time passed when she was trying to talk and you weren't listening but seeing this on FaceBook was your wake-up call. I do believe your wife is sincere about wanting to make the marriage work. You have to look at your part and change those ways. If she sees you falling back into same patterns her feelings of distancing you will return. Her distancing mechanism is to protect herself. Don't be needy, clingy, and stop asking about this guy. Take charge of your life, your family, be the dad and husband you should have been all along.....involved, engaged.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

AVR1962 said:


> If she sees you falling back into same patterns her feelings of distancing you will return.


Wrong. It doesn't need to be a pattern. One misplaced comment. One time you don't put her needs first (you may not even know that one happens. WAW's don't like to talk about what's going on in their heads. Sound familiar?). One...

"You don't back me up with your mother."
"You're constantly late picking me up from work."
"I told you to see a doctor about your problems, and I finally had to tell your mother, so she'd tell. Only then did you go."
"You were late to my dance recital last year!"
"When I tell you if I don't feel well, you tell me 'I know what you mean, I had a tough day, too'. I don't feel like I'm allowed to be sick.
"When your mother was mean to me, and gave me the silent treatment, you didn't straighten her out."
"You haven't gotten any friends since we moved here. You don't involve yourself in any activities. I want couples friends, but I can't because you won't make friends. You find something wrong with everybody."
"You don't follow through on things like booking appointments, and leave it all to me."
"Remember last autumn when you came in the room and I was crying? I wanted to talk to you then, but you had to go to ER just a few minutes later. I know that you really were sick and not trying to avoid a conversation. But I told you I wanted to talk about it later and you never brought it back up.
"You cut me off when I speak, and that makes the kids think it's alright to disrespect me. No wonder they don't always do what they're supposed to until you say so."
"You didn't buy me a ring for out ten year anniversary the other week. I don't need anything expensive. I'm happy with the cheapest little thing, but you didn't do that."
"You correct me."
"These things have hurt me, and made angry and resentful."

I think you get my point. I'm not here to give you a hard time or be "right" (OK, there's a LITTLE of that). Just a warning not to get complacent. It's not over for her. Not by a LONG shot.

And I know everyone hates me here. But that's mainly because I tell it like it is. All of these folks giving you the "good show", and "looks like it is working out", and "good for you", and all of the other BS encouragement. Ask them when their wife walked-away on them. Ask them how they've been dealing with it for the last 4 years. Ask them what they've learned studying the phenom for 4 years on this and other sites. Ask they what it felt like when that kick to the gut came and THEY felt the shock of finding out their soul mate hated them. Ask them how they dealt with the situation.

I'll tell you how: "Keep it up. You're on the right track".

I wrote the freakin' book on WAW's. Ignore me at your peril.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Mr K, I can't speak for everyone, only myself. I don't hate you, I have great pity for you. It is obvious that you are extremely hurt, but it is even more obvious your own attitude and resistance to self awareness keeps you in the sorry state you continue to broadcast with each and every post.

There is good help out there. I hope you find some and it brings you peace and happiness.

To OP,

Well done! When I read your first post it was very clear to me this was a fixable marriage. What bothered me was not "your failings" but your wife's silence with you on her troubles.

As you both continue to heal. Your wife must learn to address WITH you her feelings and NOT stew in them or seek validation from friends. She must learn to bring them to you!

The state of your marriage was just as much her fault as it was yours, but you both are learning to communicate better.

Bravo!


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> I think your honesty with her to see her points were probably your biggest strong point here. You looked at yourself, you admitted to her that she was right and seemingly understood what she was saying. I think time passed when she was trying to talk and you weren't listening but seeing this on FaceBook was your wake-up call. I do believe your wife is sincere about wanting to make the marriage work. You have to look at your part and change those ways. If she sees you falling back into same patterns her feelings of distancing you will return. Her distancing mechanism is to protect herself. Don't be needy, clingy, and stop asking about this guy. Take charge of your life, your family, be the dad and husband you should have been all along.....involved, engaged.


What's helping is that we each listened to what the other had to say, and that (after the initial talk) it wasn't all about how one or the other was wrecking things.

SH


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> To OP,
> 
> Well done! When I read your first post it was very clear to me this was a fixable marriage. What bothered me was not "your failings" but your wife's silence with you on her troubles.
> 
> ...


For what it's worth, you're saying exactly what my wife has said a bunch of times: WE made mistakes, and WE need to tackle our problems head-on so that WE don't keep making them again.

The marriage counselor has provided good advice on how to talk about situations that arise. Tonight, we're going to a workshop called "Anger in Relationships", which is to help couples focus on dealing with problems in a constructive and healthy way, to avoid letting resentments build up. She's been excited about going, as it's come closer.

SH


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> What bothered me was not "your failings" but your wife's silence with you on her troubles.


I was going to be more than happy to bow out, but in re-reading, this caught my eye.

3,000 posts this year alone, one of the better known and more respected members on this board. And that bothered you. The most harmful trait, of the most harmful condition to a marriage, and it bothered you in THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE.

That's my point. Anybody that hasn't experienced this, has no comprehension that it can actually occur:



sh987 said:


> I went to send a message to one of her GFs and was floored. Absolutely devastated. There were messages saying things like how she knew what she needed to, but wanted to make sure the kids were dealt with first, "he won't get violent, but he'll try to manipulate me", "when I told him to get a job, he refused", and "he accuses me of cheating". Her GF's responses were all of the "Yeah! Leave him! Kick him to the curb if he can't see how awesome you are!". They were like that, but only very recently.
> 
> What I saw there screamed at me "SHE'S GOING TO LEAVE YOU!"
> 
> I got sick. I literally ran to the bathroom and threw up, and then went to our room, and I'll admit it: I was crying, which I don't really do.


This guy thought his marriage was just grand. Sure it had troubles. Who's doesn't? But they were happy and getting better, by-golly. Then BAM! The big 14 year lie comes out. And if you have never experienced it, you have no right to tell this guy "atta' boy".

You know, if the OP had left this post about the affair with coffee boy, it would be 30 pages by now with "Get 2 vars", "track her phone", "don't rugsweep", "she's in the fog". There's a "script". You all love a script. There isn't one for WAW's. If there was, the fact that she didn't tell him wouldn't have bothered this particular veteran poster. She wouldn't even have brought it up. It's what WAW's DO!!!!!

I'm now out. I will not admit to a threadjack because every word I wrote had more to do with this poster's future happiness that all of the other posts combined.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read NMMNG yet?


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## bagdon (Jun 7, 2013)

You know, I took a long pause after reading MrK's posts on here to you SH and really examined what he was saying to you. I'll admit, I was a little shaken by his warnings.

I decided to read his threads....all of them (just the opening statements to each one)

After reading them I realized that everyone of them depended on his wife changing more so than looking in the mirror and doing something about himself. The very fact that "no matter what" he won't leave the marriage draws me to the conclusion that he didn't realize the discord in his marriage/life really rested on his shoulders which he indeed has the power to change. 

He's accepted the role of "victim" even after admitting his failures in the relationship.

If Mrs Bagdon decided tomorrow that she just doesn't love me anymore and wants to do her own thing, I would probably shed a tear or two but then I'd get up and be happy and move forward with MY LIFE. (I learned that from GTdad) 
MrK's whole world seems to revolve around this woman that refuses to help him "fix" their marriage. 

If he was truly bettering himself, his well being and happiness would not require her support. In his mind, he's turned their entire relationship into a lie because he's waiting on her to "wake up" and admit to him that their marriage is not happy. Every thread is filled with bitterness and sounds very weak and hopeless.

Needless to say your situation is not his situation. Keep working on yourself SH and LOVE YOUR WIFE.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

turnera said:


> Have you read NMMNG yet?


Me? Yes, the day it was suggested. Then, I re-read it.

SH


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

sh987 said:


> she said she would spend the rest of her life proving to me and showing me how much she loves me.


I hope that's true. But quite a big change, don't you think? And so fast.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

MrK said:


> I hope that's true. But quite a big change, don't you think? And so fast.


As big a change as mine and just as fast.

SH


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

sh987 said:


> As big a change as mine and just as fast.
> 
> SH


Different kind of change.


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## bagdon (Jun 7, 2013)

You can't know her inner thoughts or control her actions SH but you know her better than any of us...go with your gut, stay positive and continue your self improvement.

Being realistic and cautious is one thing; being pessimistic could take the relationship down a different path. I'm confident you've got a clearer vision of the situation than we could know. Life can throw us all kinds of curve balls man but I think you should stay positive...


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## JohnC_depressed (Dec 6, 2012)

Although Mr K's tone is a bit unfortunate - I think he has a point. Its a bit unusual to see such an about face. Be careful SH987. Be happy but monitor for anything unusual. I wish you luck and hope for the best!!


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

There is one thing you completely forget to notice SH - she kept everything hidden from you - whether it was coffee boy, the built up resentment, and the FB messages. Do NOT ever forget that. 

Things have changed for the better but most of the time, these special circumstances go in a cycle. It is unreasonable for you to have to act like super husband everyday to make her feel wanted, and quite frankly, the minute you stop will be the minute the cycle keeps revolving. You need to be very honest with yourself here. Your wife did not like A LOT about you, and about 70% of that list was absolutely ridiculous. What exactly was she talking about with coffee boy for the hour she'd meet him.. the weather? life? He probably heard everything about you just as her girl friends did. 

And yes, the way this happened is very strange. You find something, she DENIES it, then when you say 'proof'.. she confesses and you both are like high schoolers again.

She doesn't know why she would hang out with coffee boy and not tell you? Anybody with half a brain knows why. Just ANOTHER thought being hidden from you. Right now, your relationship is mimicking a 'rebound' and it will end, sadly. Everyone will go back to their normal ways and that is when it starts all over again.

That's how these things work. Things are good, then they slowly become distant/OM who fills the void/lack of attention felt/barely sex, then you change - become superman/give her attention/OM is dropped/sex is back and all the hidden things get rugsweeped for the time being. And then it will go back to slowly becoming..

If your story is the few that don't get caught in this cycle, then considered yourself lucky. Sadly, your story is no different than anyone elses. 

However, you seem happy = and that is all that matters. Good luck in the relationship.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks Wise. That's EXACTLY the way I would have worded it if all of these chips weren't piled up on my shoulder.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MrK, have a barbecue.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

sh987 said:


> For what it's worth, you're saying exactly what my wife has said a bunch of times: WE made mistakes, and WE need to tackle our problems head-on so that WE don't keep making them again.
> 
> The marriage counselor has provided good advice on how to talk about situations that arise. Tonight, we're going to a workshop called "Anger in Relationships", which is to help couples focus on dealing with problems in a constructive and healthy way, to avoid letting resentments build up. She's been excited about going, as it's come closer.
> 
> SH


So you left that bit out during your initial posts? So all along she's been telling you what she needs and wants from you and you've ignored or minimized?

Because the way I read your posts was that all of a sudden you discovered her lack of interest in you had morphed into a desire to leave you. And that's what I was referring to. If, during the time frame when sex became less frequent, intimacy became strained, she never said why and then all of a sudden she wants to leave...THATS a huge problem that SHE needs to work on all by herself!

But we live and learn. You saw sex become scarce but didn't seek real honest answers. She felt a lack of connection a lack of spark but didn't seek to remedy the sitch. 

Now you both are learning to not only be self aware but also to communicate those insights and needs to one another. That's a very good thing!


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

SH, your story is amazing and it's inspiring to read a happy outcome! 

Don't let the negative comments affect you ever - what do they expect to happen?? As you said, it is bad if your wife reacts negatively and it is bad if things are improving - then what is it supposed to be? A complete doom anyways?


Thing is, she might not have opened sooner or have hid the resentment or lied about meeting that friend of hers, due to not knowing how to talk to you about these and being afraid of screwing things up. How many of us are great communicators and are not afraid of destroying relationships with potential fights when talking about certain issues? What if our husband/wife reacts badly to whatever we bring up instead of be willing to work things out together?

But you guys chose to work together, and have been able to talk about the issues through understanding and care. You guys have been more mature than many married couples. You guys were even willing to go to marriage counselling.

And she demonstrated her care for you by constanct affectionate displays, happiness, cutting contact with her male friend and toxic friends, acknowledged your feelings and how her female friends exaggerated (IMO, they did exaggerate, the issues that caused resentment in your wife hurted her but it was not anything near to deserving divorce), saved every little thing you gave her, was happy about that hand made bracelet for hours (that is honestly so sweet )... So screw the bitter comments about her not being true and must be hiding something. And it is just as you said - if you don't acknowledge that and simply mistake her for walkaway wife instead, you might end up doing things that jeopardize the progress. Don't let that happen.

And honestly, your wife's happiness is just logical - she sensed that you did care for her feelings, and put lots of effort to make her happy. You even took initiative in going to counselling together. And you have been assertive, you improved yourself and that makes you more attractive. And yeah, you expressing your own feelings is a great improvement as she now knows you better.

You know, me and my husband has some problems that are similar to your case - me having some resentments and feeling that I've been less close and distancing. What makes me happy is when he does make effort and show care. It means a lot when he express his feelings - he is not easy to read and more rational than emotional, unlike me! You know, if he puts efforts as much as you and if we could learn to communicate better and be able to avoid hurtful fights (that sometimes is what makes me feel avoidant of bringing up issues), then I'd be so happy like your wife as well! And certainly closer and more affectionate again!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MrK said:


> I was going to be more than happy to bow out, but in re-reading, this caught my eye.
> 
> 3,000 posts this year alone, one of the better known and more respected members on this board.
> 
> ...


We all come to marriage with our own baggage. Those of us who find a way to make it a happy marriage are those who are willing to look at themselves and change that which needs to change in order to meet our partners needs AND we have partners who are willing to do the same.

I hope one day both you and your wife are willing to look in the mirror and see what the other sees, both the good and the bad.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

JohnC_depressed said:


> Although Mr K's tone is a bit unfortunate - I think he has a point. Its a bit unusual to see such an about face. Be careful SH987. Be happy but monitor for anything unusual. I wish you luck and hope for the best!!


No it's not unusual!

I was done! Appointment with lawyer, searching for apartments...done! In the span of 6 weeks when the finality actually hit my husband and that damn stubborn light bulb went off he changed! Big time!

Since the last week in September he has been a man on a mission and lemme tell you...I am so in love with him right now it's incredible!


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> So you left that bit out during your initial posts? So all along she's been telling you what she needs and wants from you and you've ignored or minimized?


You really don't get this, do you? We ALWAYS know what it is we are doing wrong, yet it always blindsides us when they walk.

Confusing, isn't it?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MrK said:


> You really don't get this, do you? We ALWAYS know what it is we are doing wrong, yet it always blindsides us when they walk.
> 
> Confusing, isn't it?


Not at all confusing. You, OP, my husband, spent years not hearing. My husband and OP finally heard AND responded. OP heard when he saw she was talking about leaving. My H heard when he realized I was indeed leaving. Why haven't you heard yet?


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Not at all confusing. You, OP, my husband, spent years not hearing. My husband and OP finally heard AND responded. OP heard when he saw she was talking about leaving. My H heard when he realized I was indeed leaving. Why haven't you heard yet?


Sometimes, I guess that people might think that they have tried to listen yet they might not be doing it correctly. I'm not saying this as a judgmental assumption towards MrK, but just wanted to say that this can happen. With my H, whenever I express what troubled me, sometimes he doesn't seem to get it and gets frustrated and assumes that he tried yet it was me who would never be satisfied. It is not, it's just simply he couldn't truly get it - or maybe I'm not expressing clear enough for him, yet in both cases it's rather lack of communication skills rather than doing it in the right way.

So your H as well as OP succeeded coz you guys could communicate effectively and understand each other, which is great.  Communication is not simply about having tried anything, but rather having tried the correct ways (knowing how to do it effectively and correctly).


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> So you left that bit out during your initial posts? So all along she's been telling you what she needs and wants from you and you've ignored or minimized?
> 
> Because the way I read your posts was that all of a sudden you discovered her lack of interest in you had morphed into a desire to leave you. And that's what I was referring to. If, during the time frame when sex became less frequent, intimacy became strained, she never said why and then all of a sudden she wants to leave...THATS a huge problem that SHE needs to work on all by herself!


I went and re-read the initial post, and you're right that I didn't relate it as well as I could have regarding the issues she brought up that day.

Some of it was stuff that was new to me: being late to pick her up, for example. Anytime I was late, I'd apologize and she would say "It's ok, it happens." Another one which was new was booking appointments.

Others were things had gone over a number of times over the years: our dealings with my mother, where I did better sometimes and worse at other times. She'd already mentioned her frustrations about the doctor, etc. I thought that we had dealt with them, but she obviously didn't see it that way.

And if she feels like it hasn't dealt with, then that's an issue, and I can see why she was frustrated about it. Really, the big problem was a lack of communication. We both have a tendency to be passive when we don't like something, and bottle it up sometimes. She'd stewed on things until (as she said the other day) they became much bigger than they were.

During this talk, she said she'd wanted to have this talk a bunch of times, but was afraid of how to bring it up, and wanted to be prepared. She didn't want it to become "you always", "you made me feel", "you never", because she says that not the case.

Re: the mother thing. A few weeks ago, she said she'd been thinking about it, and had come to the realization that she's had a tendency to nag me about her, and feels that nagging doesn't really work, anyway.




> But we live and learn. You saw sex become scarce but didn't seek real honest answers. She felt a lack of connection a lack of spark but didn't seek to remedy the sitch.
> 
> Now you both are learning to not only be self aware but also to communicate those insights and needs to one another. That's a very good thing!


Another thing which is important to note: sexual intimacy hadn't dried up between us at this point. It wasn't as close as it was before, and I had noted that and tried to do things to improve it: take the lead more, be a little more affectionate. She showed a diary entry from a month before our big talk and she noted it: "SH has been more affectionate lately. I love it. I hope it lasts." I should have talked to her, and let her know what I felt between us and what I hoped for. But, the sex hadn't dried up. Before the big talk, it was still 3-4 times a week at a minimum.

It's not like she'd detached from me, wasn't having sex with me and went on like we were two roommates. It just wasn't what it could be between us.

SH


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Not at all confusing. You, OP, my husband, spent years not hearing. My husband and OP finally heard AND responded. OP heard when he saw she was talking about leaving. My H heard when he realized I was indeed leaving. Why haven't you heard yet?


In fairness to the OP, it was not merely that he did not hear her. She admitted to not communicating:



> She talked about how she's seen improvement in the areas I promised to better myself in, and how she's been working to improve in her areas, too. "I tend to internalize things so much, and I turned benign things into personal hurt... Rather than bring up our problems, sometimes I talked them over in my head, imagining what you might say. Sometimes, I even got mad about your 'responses', if you can believe that, and felt some resentment over how I guessed you saw things. I'm sorry about that. I took away your chance to tell me how you felt, and I won't do that anymore."


Far to often these thread devolve into all blame being laid at the feet of one spouse. I don't think it is useful to do that.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> Why haven't you heard yet?


ME!? I'm the king of "hearing it". I'll bet if you do a forum search of "kick in the gut", you'll get my story of "hearing it", many, many times.

Unfortunately, I'm the WAW scholar on this board (a sad, sad, commentary of where we are on this issue). Husbands of WAW's have ALL "heard it".

I wonder why it shocked you to hear that he knew what her issues were and did nothing to change yet I KNEW that was exactly what happened. I didn't even think twice when reading it.

Oh, "I've heard it" alright.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Tall Average Guy said:


> In fairness to the OP, it was not merely that he did not hear her. She admitted to not communicating:


That's all part of the script. One spouse saying "I told him until I was blue in the face" and the other is blindsided when she walks. That's what happens folks.

This thread is eye opening. Too bad it could be happening in a one-in-a-thoussand case of a WAW actually walking back. That will be the final death blow to the WAW discussion that is so dearly needed here.

Sorry newlyweds. We're going to lose your generation to this as well.

And please. Ignore me for any reason you want. Just don't ignore me because I handled the end of my marriage poorly and am a little overly passionate about it now.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

lilith23 said:


> Sometimes, I guess that people might think that they have tried to listen yet they might not be doing it correctly. I'm not saying this as a judgmental assumption towards MrK, but just wanted to say that this can happen. With my H, whenever I express what troubled me, sometimes he doesn't seem to get it and gets frustrated and assumes that he tried yet it was me who would never be satisfied. It is not, it's just simply he couldn't truly get it - or maybe I'm not expressing clear enough for him, yet in both cases it's rather lack of communication skills rather than doing it in the right way.
> 
> So your H as well as OP succeeded coz you guys could communicate effectively and understand each other, which is great.  Communication is not simply about having tried anything, but rather having tried the correct ways (knowing how to do it effectively and correctly).


We've been to counseling a bunch of times now, as well as (last night) a workshop for dealing with anger/confrontation in relationships, and it's been helpful. Previously, we didn't yell and scream and attack, but we certainly didn't always share when we were frustrated. Didn't help. It's too easy to feel sorry for yourself and feel like a victim.

I don't think we always listened very well, which goes some way towards explaining why she was still upset about things I thought we'd talked about/dealt with.

SH


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MrK said:


> That's all part of the script. One spouse saying "I told him until I was blue in the face" and the other is blindsided when she walks. That's what happens folks.
> 
> This thread is eye opening. Too bad it could be happening in a one-in-a-thoussand case of a WAW actually walking back. That will be the final death
> 
> ...


I guess i don't understand why a wife would be classified a waw if you "heard it". I was under the impression that a waw just ups and leaves for no known reason; if you've heard the reason why is she still labeled waw?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bagdon (Jun 7, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I guess i don't understand why a wife would be classified a waw if you "heard it". I was under the impression that a waw just ups and leaves for no known reason; if you've heard the reason why is she still labeled waw?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's not that there is no reason for a WAW to detach and check out of the marriage. The key is that we husbands, especially those of us dealing with nice guy syndrome, are notoriously slow to act on jeopardy to our marriages as well as some other areas of our lives. (rug sweeping?)

It's one thing to "hear it" and another to walk in the necessary changes to better our lives and that of our family. It requires a complete paradigm shift in the heart and mind of a husband to effectively pull it off requiring tremendous patience, time, effort and discipline (that includes dealing with mistakes along the way).... I guess that's why the success ratio is very low.

I believe it really is common for wives to respond positively to a husband that is making an effort to "do something" about discord in the evolving relationship/marriage. I also believe it inspires change in the wife when executed from a position of love.

So unless the husband's change is "real", more than likely everything will slowly deteriorate into old habits hence the reemergence of the WAW...this time worse and less likely to recover. 

IMO sh987 is on the right path...how "real" the change is in him, I don't know; time will tell. It's got to be real if there is to be any hope of their marriage not only surviving but thriving. I've learned that adversity (perceived or real) is most times required before things truly get better.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrK said:


> I will not admit to a threadjack because every word I wrote had more to do with this poster's future happiness that all of the other posts combined.


No, it had to do with what you wanted out of your marriage. That's called projection. 

Just like you have a "right" to complain, APink has a right to say good job. I'll add to that "good job" as well. Considering many of the problems in the "archive," it's nice to see a simple problem get worked out. Lack of communication is the biggest problem, I see, in most of these failed or failing marriages.

If couples communicated with, instead of talking AT, each other TAM wouldn't have such a huge CWI following IMO.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Been a few weeks since my last update... Things are terrific.

-On Nov 22, we took a trip out of town. It was meant to be to attend he wedding of a GF of my wife, but as the day approached, the roads would not be good for the entire length of the drive. She was worried that the roads would be bad and asked if I would cancel the hotel room we'd booked. Nope. I told her that even if we can't get all the way there, we'd still make it to Edmonton and stay there. That is what we did, and we had a marvelous time.

-On the way there, she put on our audio book of "The 5 Love Languages" and we had a good time listening to that. Frequently, she stopped the audio, and we'd talk about what we'd heard, relate it to experiences we'd had, etc. As I was driving, she would touch my neck/ear/etc. On the way there, she was talking about how much "fun" she had in store for me, and she wasn't joking around. Even tired after the initial 7 hour trip, she was all over me. 

-The weekend was spent very nicely. We had supper at the site of our first date, 14 years ago, attended a comedy show, walked at the mall (we always got a kick out of people watching) hand in hand. We lived in that city for years, but neither of us even though about getting together with friends. We weren't going to miss a chance to get away alone for the first time.

-Things have basically been a continuation of my last updates. My wife and I continue to spend lots of time together. We chit chat; we giggle. We do the usual things you'd expect. She likes to invite me to shower with her. We whisper naughty things in each other's ears. We've made love every night (and then some) other than when her period first starts. This time, though, on the first day, she told me she had something special for me. I had a shower before bedtime, and when I went to go sleep, she had a candle lit, was wearing sexy nightwear, and told me she'd give me a massage. Yup. "I don't remember the last time I made it all about you. I'm sorry about that. I love you; I want you to feel special and loved." After rubbing my back, she had me turn over, and then she *really* paid attention me. Wow. Jeez, did I ever sleep that night.

-We started a pilates class together, and she was so excited that I liked it. She had been worried that maybe my back would bother me too much, or I'd feel silly about it, or whatever. It's been fun, though she's distracting as hell in her yoga pants!

-Huge: she was talking on the phone with a GF, and I had to use the facilities. She'd taken the phone downstairs to the laundry room, and through a quirk of the duct work, I couldn't help but hear the conversation. She went on and on about our trip, the time we've spent together, the silly little presents I got her, how happy she is in general.

-I continue to try and improve myself. I've continued to attend IC, and that's gone well. When I was 15, I witnessed an extremely violent murder, and it had never been dealt with. When it happened, my mother told me "You didn't get hurt, so get over it." It's tough to get over watching a man literally cave in another guy's head with a cinder block... I talked about it with the counselor, and told my wife about it. I had never mentioned before. She cried, told me how sorry she was, and hugged me. I'll be damned if I didn't cry, too... When I pick her up from work (haven't been late once lol) I decided that I would start going right up to her office to get her, and last night she was saying that her GF saw and said "SH looks so happy. I've never seen him like that." I have to be honest and admit that, after the pain of talking about that episode, I feel like the weight of the world is off my shoulders.

I think that for now, I'll wait longer until the next update... Several months, or if something major pops up. It's a couple of months, now, after The Big Talk, and things are going really well. She says that she's been really happy, and wants to keep working on being her best version of herself. That's my goal, too.

***OH***
I'm so sorry... I had also meant to thank all here for their input and suggestions with things such such as books. The advice has been invaluable.

Cheers!


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

I woke up today and thought it's a good time for an update... Things continue to be terrific between my wife and I, and have kind of a big life plan to announce. I'll get to that after the other stuff...

-My wife and I share a really nice time everyday: when the alarm goes off, we stay in bed for 30 minutes and hug, snuggle up, kiss, etc. I'm not sure what it is... In my 20s, I'd have felt a bit smothered by it. In my 30s (though less with time) I would have been good with 5 or 10 minutes. Now... I really like that time each day.

-Affection continues as has been noted in previous updates. Aside from the first 2 or 3 days of my wife's Lady Times, we make love 6-7+ times per week (come the weekend, we really have our fun). We sit together on the couch, hold hands, she'll snuggle into my arm or side. That kind of thing. It's not even just that... We spend a LOT of time together, like we used to. Lots and lots of talking about damn near anything under the sun. Like we did before we bought so many TVs and computers. Hell, like we did when we were younger and poor. I don't long for those paycheques, but we had fun when we were broke and a big night was playing cribbage, yick-yacking and then going to bed early for the most fun you can have for free.

-Several months ago, she took a major step back from facebook, trimming down her friends list considerably. She would go on about once a week to see if her cousin sent her a message. That kind of thing. About a month ago, she told me "I've been thinking about facebook... Other than posting family pictures for friends, I'm done with it. When I look back on it, I let it take over a lot of my existence, and it was at the expense of you and the kids. I've decided that I need to look at the people and things in my life. If they don't add to it, then they're taking away from my marriage and my family. I took myself and my time away from you. I'm so sorry. I won't do that again." She's been on there about 3 times since, each time it was literally: "Sign on. Any messages? No. Logout."

-In a similar vein, she's taken a great accounting of the friends and acquaintances in her life. Some months ago, I noted to her that her complaints about me had greatly picked up around the time she started her new job. She thought about it... She started her new job just over a year ago, and works with another woman. She said she had to step back to really see how negative this lady is. If my wife made a passing comment like "Oh, my husband... Last night, he left his socks next to the couch.", then this lady will say something like "THAT means he has NO respect for you! Men are JUST like that! My ex-husband used to do stuff like that ALL THE TIME!" It was like that for any and everything. Positive stuff is minimized and anything which could be construed as negative is blown up to epic proportion. My wife: "Remember how upset I was that you didn't get me a ring on our anniversary? I hadn't even thought of it till she asked to see the ring she was sure I'd receive. She went on about it so much that it got me worked up about it. Next thing I knew, I was seriously hurt and pissed off that you hadn't bought something I didn't ask for. I'm SO sorry." So, a day would begin with something like: "So, how late was SH to pick up yesterday?" (I wasn't late THAT often), and that sort of thing. She's figured it out and started taking stock of the people in her life. 

She wants toxic people OUT! She wants to concentrate on positives. When we exchange emails, I make sure to add a positive/uplifting quote in my first correspondence.

I had things to work on, and have tried my hardest to work on them. She had things to work on, and she's tried her hardest to work on them.

---

The bigger news item in our lives:

Mrs sh987 had found an audiobook called "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by John Gottman. Really enjoyed that one, btw. A few weeks ago, we were listening to it, while doing a jigsaw puzzle, and stopped to do an exercise in it. He asked 20 questions, all designed to see how well you know each other, past, goals, etc. We both did very well, with each of us only missing a couple of answers. 

This got us to talking about where we are and where we'd like to be. She asked if I like living here (a Canadian prairie city which is known as dreary with extremely cold winters and hot summers), and I answered by saying that I don't really like it here very much, and that I mentioned moving here because we'd be able to buy a house at a good price. I asked her if she liked it.

She started bawling her eyes out: "I hate it here. I spent my entire time growing up here dreaming about leaving. I'm sick of this place." When she was 9 years old, she visited the west coast (Vancouver Island) and fell in love with it. It's beautiful there, is one of the few places in Canada with a pleasant climate and with no real winter to speak of. Since then, her dream was always to live there some day. It was something she told me about on our first date, actually.

Over the years, the dream shifted to "let's retire there some day." A few weeks ago, she told me that she doesn't want to wait any longer. "Why wait to live in a beautiful place? Why wait to live in a place where we can go for a walk year-round? Why wait until we're old before we can go where we want to go? I've always felt pressure from my family to live here, like I owe it to them. I'm sick of letting other people dictate how we live our lives." For me, I don't want to be like those people we all hear about: living and working towards a goal like that for years, only to never make it happen. That's the problem with tomorrow: after each day, you have one less left... She felt like giving the kids stability (which I never had) meant that we couldn't move until they're both done school. To me, it means minimizing upheaval, and not necessarily removing it completely.

So, that's it. We're planning to move. The value of our home has more than doubled in the 7 years since we bought it (we moved here ahead of a boom) and that's if we just want a quick sale. We'll look for jobs there, and are looking at this summer.

That sounded great to me. For her, she went from "Yeah, let's do it!" to feeling scared. It's a lot to pick up and move, but her sense of exhilaration (her word) has been growing with each day. 

So, that's it for now. Things have been really good, and we're both happy about it.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

That's great to hear!  It's inspiring to hear of positive feedbacks, and it's amazing that you guys realized the actions to change things in your lives and start fresh.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Great update. 

Gottman's books are great, aren't they?

Life can be grand, if we learn how to live it.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Great update.
> 
> *Gottman's books are great, aren't they?*
> 
> Life can be grand, if we learn how to live it.


We both enjoyed "The Seven Principles" tremendously. 

You know... We did pre-marital counseling, and it was good. He was nice and pleasant. I can't help but feel that we didn't receive nearly enough advice.

Five Love Languages
His Needs Her Needs
Seven Principles

Those are thee right off the top of my head that would have been great to know about. I don't say that to excuse the two of us from seeking out that information on our own. My wife turned to women to get advice on men (which she recently said makes no sense) and I turned within myself. So, no excuses there.

But, it sure would have been good to hear about it from the person who was tasked with giving us the information which could help us stay together.

He just talked to us about religion, which was beyond pointless for me, being a non-believer.

Oh well. We've gone to school on our marriage, and it's been good. We've been happy most of our 14 years together, but Feb thru Sept of the past year was more stress than we'd ever had.

Or would like to have again.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Quite awhile since my last update...

There's really not much to say other than that things are still great. We remain close, talk a ton, spend quality time together, have worked together to get the house ready to sell, and just generally have fun being with each other. We've had a couple of disagreements, and rather than not discuss or deal with them to save possibly having a fight (something we both did previously) we just talked it out. We both trust that the other will not think less of or try to hurt the other simply for not agreeing all the time. It's been good to get those things out of the way with and settled, and all with no hurt feelings to boot.

Simply put, emotional, physical and sexual intimacy are all excellent, and we proceed as is.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Sorry if this has already been said, but I did not go through the comments on this thread first.

You are communicating, care for each other, but you need to share this in front of a third party -- a good counselor. I get the idea that complete honesty is necessary, as well as forgiveness if there are things about the truth that require forgiveness.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Oops. Looks like you have (including reading Gottman books). Ignore my comment!


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

wanttolove said:


> Sorry if this has already been said, but I did not go through the comments on this thread first.
> 
> You are communicating, care for each other, but you need to share this in front of a third party -- a good counselor. I get the idea that complete honesty is necessary, as well as forgiveness if there are things about the truth that require forgiveness.


I agree: that's why we've been seeing a counselor regularly this whole time. 

LOL - Only saw your subsequent post after I had written mine.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

sh987 said:


> I agree: that's why we've been seeing a counselor regularly this whole time.
> 
> LOL - Only saw your subsequent post after I had written mine.


987:

glad your relationship with your wife has picked up over the last several months. What about her male friend that she liked to go to coffee with? does she still see him/commubnicate with him?


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> 987:
> 
> glad your relationship with your wife has picked up over the last several months. What about her male friend that she liked to go to coffee with? does she still see him/commubnicate with him?


She apologized to me for stepping over the bounds, sent him an email (which she showed me) saying that she wouldn't be talking to him anywhere more, and has (from everything I can tell) lived up to that. She acknowledged that even if everything is platonic between two people, that it's completely unacceptable to exclude the spouse, and as soon as that happens, that friendship is done like dinner.

I suppose that she could have bought a burner phone, set up a secret email, or one of those things, so she could communicate with him. This could be happening in damn near any relationship. I (quietly) check from time to time, as I'm far more the tech wizard than is she, and there is absolutely no sign of it on her end.

Even more than that, though, is how none of the signs of her becoming a bit more distant are there like there was before. Even the way she talks about relationships seems to come from a standpoint that is more educated and with a clearer idea about boundaries, responsibilities, not attempting to mind read. I heard her on the phone, from the other room, talking to her GF, who was complaining about her husband. She said "Stop telling me about it, and talk to him. And, before you do that, stop obsessing over what you think he's doing wrong and ask yourself what you could do to be a better wife to him."

That wasn't for my benefit, but for her friend. Didn't even know I could hear. There's a difference in her (and me) which feels real to the other person.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Really glad things have worked out.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

It's been a long time, so on a night where my back won't let me sleep, I might as well update...

-We sold our house, and did extremely well financially. Always nice.

-We moved to Victoria, BC, and are loving life here. The entire area is extremely beautiful. The weather is extremely mild here, so we've made sure to go for our walk every day, and spend tons of time both as a couple and as a family.

-We've maintained our lines of communication, and I really learned how to have a conversation even if there was a chance she would cry or get upset. I really didn't know how to deal with it before; it was very threatening to me, since my parents showed me that anything approaching raw emotions meant that all hell would break loose. Plainly put, things get dealt with, though we don't have a lot of drama in our lives, and that's because

-We really took a hard look at the people in our orbit, and the influence they had on us, so we really trimmed the fat in this area. I haven't dealt with my mother in a very long time, and I've never been so happy. I love her, but I allowed her and her constant drama and upset to have a very bad affect on our marriage. My wife cut out some chronically negative friends, and has taken steps to having better dealings with difficult family members. In short, only positive people need apply.

-My wife has become very interested in learning more about relationships. She's reads books about topics like maintaining healthy boundaries, dealing with toxic people, etc. We watch web series on healthy relationships that offer advice, and chat about all of these things. The other night, I heard her talking to our son, saying "You may not have liked what that person said, but they didn't make you mad. You're responsible for your own feelings. You make you mad, and you make you happy. Nobody else." She's really matured emotionally, imo.

-Along that vein, I think that I have, too. I always used to listen to her, but I had a lot to learn about sharing from my own heart, too. Attending individual counseling really helped me in this regard, particularly by working through some very big issues. I want to continue to do better with this. I don't feel the need to be Super Husband, in terms of showering her with gifts all the time, and never screwing up. I've settled into something a bit deeper than that, imo. (though I still do little things like pick up Chap Stick if I saw that her lip was sore, for example).

-Our sex life continues to roll along, though it feels more meaningful. We're playful with each other throughout the day (though, we usually had been in the past). Previously, I would try to do a bunch of things I thought she'd like: total Nice Guy stuff, and of course, if it didn't go as I'd hoped, I felt put out. I've dropped that unfair bit. I find that if we spend enough quality time together, and especially have good talks, the sex life just follows along very nicely. Giving of myself that way clearly is extremely important to her.

So, that's it... Life has been good. Speaking for myself, I've been quite happy.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Thanks for the update.

It is so good to read about "endings" that turn up positive.

Keep up the good work.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

What an uplifting story!

And thanks for sharing regular updates. So happy that it's all worked out and you're both happy


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