# Have I hit the Dead End?



## LawrenceOlympic (May 20, 2016)

My wife and I have been together for 11 years, married for 5 1/2. I would say our sex life is the classic stereotype. It was great in the beginning, we both gave and received equally. Then we settled into the roles of the HD husband and LD wife, and all the problems that come with that (temper tantrums, hurt from rejection, claims of no romance, intimacy etc.) And now I have to work and work at it with the hopes of even being tossed a bread crumb. 

Over the past 2 years or so, she's started saying things that hurt like:

"Sex does nothing for me because you don't last long"
"That's it?"
"Why are you so awkward?" 

She doesn't initiate at all anymore. And I've been rejected so many times that the only time I really get in the mood is in the morning after I've slept away yesterday's troubles and I can appreciate the woman laying next to me in bed. It's like a 25% success rate. I wake up earlier than her for work so I do feel guilty waking her up, but I'm usually so worked up that my judgement is cloudy. 

Anyway, so I've been trying all this week, and this morning she said something that just really cut me deep. It went down like this:
W: "CAN YOU STOP? You're the reason I've been so tired this week!"
M: "Well you haven't done anything to fix it" (maybe that was the wrong thing to say)
W: "Why should I? It's just going to teach you that its ok"

And for some reason when she said that I lost it. I wrongly told her to f*** off, and then went outside and cried for about an hour, and then took a drive down to the beach to cool off. 

I finally messaged her saying that what she said really hurt, and she replied saying "Sorry you're deeply hurt, but they were honest words". 

I just have an overall feeling that she doesn't care anymore. I keep feeling like this is it, its over. 

Any advice or similar experiences would be really appreciated, but if anything I just needed to get this off my chest. 

TL;DR
I tried for morning sex all week and my wife more or less said "why should I give you sex if its just gonna teach you its okay to wake me up" and it really hurt me.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

My only, simple answer is to give up something you usually do to meet her needs and instead do something completely for yourself. 

My more complex answer is, send her here.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

That's familiar enough to sting. My advice is to start taking weekend vacations alone. Preferably in places without cell reception. 

To explain that advice, She is treating you like a child. Start acting like a Man. Be independent. And let her have all the precious sleep she wants.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

LawrenceOlympic said:


> Anyway, so I've been trying all this week, and this morning she said something that just really cut me deep. It went down like this:
> W: "CAN YOU STOP? You're the reason I've been so tired this week!"
> M: "Well you haven't done anything to fix it" (maybe that was the wrong thing to say)
> W: "Why should I? It's just going to teach you that its ok"
> ...


One issue the two of you are likely having is frustration that the other person will not acknowledge or listen to how the other feels. So you end up with this:

W: I feel this way!
H: That makes ME feel this way!
W: Did you hear how I feel about it?
H: Are you going to do anything about how I feel?
....f*** you!
(some time passes)
H: Apologizes for feeling angry.
W: HOLY SHÎT he still did not acknowledge how he made ME feel!
(spirals out of control)

Naturally you each now have an urge to start being very passive aggressive and throw temper tantrums to try and hurt each other, but BEFORE you go there, you have to make your passive aggressive temper tantrums moves like that of a genius chess player! You have to channel that energy into outwitting your wife in a way that is actually playful and fun!

An example might be to get your mother in law flowers and tell her how she raised a wonderful daughter. Be genuinely nice and do NOT fake it! Tell your MIL all the things you actually love about your wife. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Oh dear, I'm sorry you're here. 
She said some really hurtful things. 
Do you have any children? 

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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

She sounds cold and harsh. It will only get worse.

Rejection breeds low self esteem which breeds resentment which breeds love loss.

You can stay as long as you wish but it may not get better.

Start working on yourself and prepare to start over again.

Sorry you are here. A lot of us have been where you are now.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@badsanta why would he get the MIL flowers? 
Will it make any difference to her rejecting him? 

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## LawrenceOlympic (May 20, 2016)

@Satya: Oh I've tried. It has never worked. 
@Mr. Nail: I definitely get the child treatment... I've done my best to change her perception, but there's always something new that I'm not doing right. 
@badsanta: It's sorta like that, except somehow she always manages to make me feel like everything is my fault. I wind up with a load of guilt and a kick to my self-esteem. I even felt guilty about getting so upset about what she said, like "WTF is wrong with me?!"
@MrsAldi: We don't have any children. (That's a whole other thread I should go write)
@philreag: As much as I don't want to admit it...it does seem to be going south with no slowing. :\


Thanks for your replies everyone.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@LawrenceOlympic she has some issues, it's like she's bullying/pushing you away for some reason. 
But without further information it's hard to say. 


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

LawrenceOlympic said:


> Mr. Nail: I definitely get the child treatment... I've done my best to change her perception, but there's always something new that I'm not doing right.


Well if you are trying to hit a moving target, I would suggest playing by your own rules.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MrsAldi said:


> @badsanta why would he get the MIL flowers?
> Will it make any difference to her rejecting him?


At some point the wife will need a momentary escape and confide in her mom about all the marriage trouble she is having hoping to find SOMEBODY that will actually listen to her. That conversation will not go very well for the frustrated wife!

OMG, I love it when my MIL takes my side!

Badsanta


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Worked? 
That's not why I recommended it.... It's not meant to get some kind of reaction out of her, it's supposed to teach YOU to focus on and reach goals that are independently benefitting you. I'm not saying have an affair btw, I'm saying go do something beneficial for you, like Mr. Nail recommended. 

It's for you, not her. You're still living in HER context. Live in your own.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Satya said:


> My only, simple answer is to give up something you usually do to meet her needs and instead do something completely for yourself.
> 
> My more complex answer is, send her here.


Don't just stop one thing, stop everything. Every... Little... Thing. And when she asks why, be as brutally honest with her as she has been with you.

"Wife, doing X is something that couples in intimate relationships do. Your actions have shown me we're no longer in an intimate relationship."

If she complains after that:

"When you can show me that you're prepared to resume an intimate relationship with me, I will resume doing X for you."

Is she still complains, shrug your shoulders and walk away.

The word "no" just became the single most important word you can use with her.

Here's the really bad thing about this whole situation. Your wife is clearly repulsed by the thought of intimacy with you. Think about that for a second. You want to have sex with somebody who is repulsed by you. That is harsh, but look at her reaction.

If it were me, after I shut down any little thing I might do to help her around the house or make her feel special, I would be seeking out an attorney to find out my options.

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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Please read this. A few times:
The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.

What your wife said is definitely hurtful. But it sounds like she is very frustrated too. Like @badsanta said, you're both aware of your own feeling/frustration but not having empathy for the other.

Permission to speak freely? Your wife has worded things in a cruel way. However, it sounds like she has been trying to tell you that she's not happy with the sex you do have for years.

Have you tried to do anything about her complaints of not lasting long or being awkward? Or did you just think "Wow, that hurt!" and go on doing the same thing you always did? Men can only last so long, but there's a lot you can do to her before and after to make sure she's satisfied, even introducing vibrators and other toys.

Your W has a harsh way of wording things, but she's giving you valuable information. Could she be getting increasingly harsh because you have ignored more gentle feedback?

Since you posted about being the "stereotypical" HD and LD couple, I suspect you understand on some level that sex is typically different for men and women, along with the reasons for having it. When a woman does not feel emotionally connected and tries to have sex anyhow, she can actually develop an aversion to sex to where she can barely stand to be touched.

BTW, I understand your frustration, but when you wake your wife up early with demands for sex that is the exact opposite way to make her feel the love, care and connection that most women need to feel to desire sex.

Your marriage sounds very unhappy for both of you right now and you could blow it up. But then you have to start over with someone else and probably end up in the exact same stereotypical place unless you hop partner to partner the rest of your life.

Please read my link. I hope things turn for the better. Also great reading material would be:
Love Busters

(BTW, from the above link on love busters - you're making selfish demands for sex, and then your wife is making disrespectful judgments of you, and then you're having angry outbursts at her, and now half this forum is suggesting Independent Behavior on your part - which might succeed in getting you out of this marriage, but I seriously doubt it will succeed in repairing anything.)





LawrenceOlympic said:


> My wife and I have been together for 11 years, married for 5 1/2. I would say our sex life is the classic stereotype. It was great in the beginning, we both gave and received equally. Then we settled into the roles of the HD husband and LD wife, and all the problems that come with that (temper tantrums, hurt from rejection, claims of no romance, intimacy etc.) And now I have to work and work at it with the hopes of even being tossed a bread crumb.
> 
> Over the past 2 years or so, she's started saying things that hurt like:
> 
> ...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

WorkingWife said:


> Permission to speak freely? Your wife has worded things in a cruel way. However, it sounds like she has been trying to tell you that she's not happy with the sex you do have for years.
> 
> Have you tried to do anything about her complaints of not lasting long or being awkward? Or did you just think "Wow, that hurt!" and go on doing the same thing you always did? Men can only last so long, but there's a lot you can do to her before and after to make sure she's satisfied, even introducing vibrators and other toys.
> 
> Your W has a harsh way of wording things, but she's giving you valuable information. Could she be getting increasingly harsh because you have ignored more gentle feedback?


Yes, this. OP you are so busy feeling hurt, and so much of the advice here is about how to punish her for making you feel hurt, but have you ever stepped back and looked at what your wife is telling you?

That maybe you need to meet her sexual needs if you want her to meet yours?

That maybe she is genuinely turned off or building resentment because of the way you are treating her?

That maybe she just doesn't want to wake up and service your morning wood, and would prefer another approach?

If any of these things are even remotely close to what she is thinking, turning around and punishing her for having her honest feelings is only going to make the whole situation worse.

You want to be able to have and express your honest feelings, don't you? So why deny her that same privilege?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Try to reread her words to you, OP. They make a lot of sense.

Not many women are going to find needy, whiny, self-centered lovers appealing.

And you may want to thank her for her transparency. Transparency is essential for solving problems. Not all men are so lucky to hear such honest, even if hurtful, words from their wives. Many are just left to guess what is wrong.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

A_A and JLD, while I agree he needs to hear what doesn't work for her, did I miss where she said to him what actually does work for her? 

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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> A_A and JLD, while I agree he needs to hear what doesn't work for her, did I miss where she said to him what actually does work for her?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Sounds like a functioning penis does. Far, do you want to link that Veggie diet thread?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Sounds like a functioning penis does. Far, do you want to link that Veggie diet thread?


I am completely lost...

Can you please explain this post to me?



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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> I am completely lost...
> 
> Can you please explain this post to me?
> 
> ...


He can't stay erect, correct?


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> Your wife has worded things in a cruel way. However, it sounds like she has been trying to tell you that she's not happy with the sex you do have for years.
> 
> Have you tried to do anything about her complaints of not lasting long or being awkward? Or did you just think "Wow, that hurt!" and go on doing the same thing you always did? Men can only last so long, but there's a lot you can do to her before and after to make sure she's satisfied, even introducing vibrators and other toys.


^^ This, all the way.

Dude you've gotten answers, your wife is rather harsh in her delivery but she sounds frustrated because you just don't listen. Or you do listen, and then you shrug your shoulders and do the same thing you've always done.

In her mind you're a lousy lover, you're selfish, inconsiderate and inflexible.

If you want her to change, you need to change first.

And stop being so freaking sensitive that you cry for an hour after she speaks to you in a harsh tone. Sounds like there are some other issues going on with you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> He can't stay erect, correct?


Did I miss that too?

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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mclane said:


> ^^ This, all the way.
> 
> Dude you've gotten answers, your wife is rather harsh in her delivery but she sounds frustrated because you just don't listen. Or you do listen, and then you shrug your shoulders and do the same thing you've always done.
> 
> ...


No **** on the bolded. Between that and waking her up every day, it is a wonder she is still with you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Did I miss that too?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


That's what I understood from it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> No **** on the bolded. Between that and waking her up every day, it is a wonder she is still with you.


I will agree that this is not good.

The OP is clearly desperate. But the only thing I see is his wife telling him what will NOT work...after he has already tried it.

She could go a hell of a long way to helping solve this by telling him what actually will work.

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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> I will agree that this is not good.
> 
> The OP is clearly desperate. But the only thing I see is his wife telling him what will NOT work...after he has already tried it.
> 
> ...


We are telling him. And job number 1 is to get those arteries to the penis clear. That is where that link comes in.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> A_A and JLD, while I agree he needs to hear what doesn't work for her, did I miss where she said to him what actually does work for her?


It was right after he stopped having temper tantrums and demanding that she "fix" it, and opened himself up to hearing what she was asking for without responding by hurling reverse accusations.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

always_alone said:


> It was right after he stopped having temper tantrums and demanding that she "fix" it, and opened himself up to hearing what she was asking for without responding by hurling reverse accusations.


So it went from passionate sex to the current situation instantaneously, with no middle ground, no slow boil, etc.?

That doesn't sound like what he described at all.

Also absent was what does actually work for her, before either one of them got to the point they are at now. 

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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

As long as the OPs wife subscribes to the "sex is something I give you " theory rather than the obvious there's no point even discussing how to get her to "give more". One "gives" to charity, vs one "contributes" to a partnership.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> So it went from passionate sex to the current situation instantaneously, with no middle ground, no slow boil, etc.?
> 
> That doesn't sound like what he described at all.
> 
> ...


Read the first paragraph again. The OP totally glosses over the slow boil, but makes it pretty clear (at least IMHO) that he responded to rejection with hurt, and she wants some romance, and he wants sex, and will temper tantrums his way into getting it.

And clearly, she's been trying to tell him that he is not meeting her sexual needs for quite some time, as she has resorted to the most blunt wording possible. 

"That's it?" means "You are leaving me hanging". No one should be saying that after sex. And the correct response is to make sure that's not it at all.

But then OP glosses over that, and focuses on his morning wood and how she should "fix" it, and too bad if it interferes with her sleep because that is when *he* can get over his resentment and get it up.

Pretty much the opposite of sexy turn-on, don'tcha think?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

always_alone said:


> Read the first paragraph again. The OP totally glosses over the slow boil, but makes it pretty clear (at least IMHO) that he responded to rejection with hurt, and she wants some romance, and he wants sex, and will temper tantrums his way into getting it.
> 
> And clearly, she's been trying to tell him that he is not meeting her sexual needs for quite some time, as she has resorted to the most blunt wording possible.
> 
> ...


Okay, clarification is needed from the OP. I read as the lack of romance and intimacy being his complaints, not hers, and they are lumped together in the same parentheses.

I am assuming you read it differently.

Which is it, OP?

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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Okay, clarification is needed from the OP. I read as the lack of romance and intimacy being his complaints, not hers, and they are lumped together in the same parentheses.
> 
> I am assuming you read it differently.
> 
> Which is it, OP?


If they are just his complaints, then OP has not yet bothered to tell us her POV at all.

So to far's question, I add another: OP, why is she saying these things to you? What do you think her side of the story is?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

The advice to focus on himself and be manly is not to Punish her. It is to Attract her. She is not attracted to a whiny little boy. Not only that spending a weekend sleeping in till noon and pampering herself will make her much more relaxed and receptive. It is giving her what she is asking for. How is that a punishment. She needs to see sex as something she does with him, not as something she does for him. She has to see him as self sufficient to get to that point. 

The side benefit is that if it doesn't work, he is more ready to be on his own.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> The advice to focus on himself and be manly is not to Punish her. It is to Attract her. She is not attracted to a whiny little boy. Not only that spending a weekend sleeping in till noon and pampering herself will make her much more relaxed and receptive. It is giving her what she is asking for. How is that a punishment. She needs to see sex as something she does with him, not as something she does for him. She has to see him as self sufficient to get to that point.
> 
> The side benefit is that if it doesn't work, he is more ready to be on his own.


The punishing part is refusing to meet her needs until she meets his. Tit for tat.


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## slidewayzz (May 4, 2016)

I wish I had more time to go in depth but I don't right now. I believe I can help. I've been there recently and still working through it but it is getting much better now. Your question "have I hit a dead end?" Unfortunately No. It's a slow downhill slide that doesn't end till someone leaves. I've been married for almost 26 years. The first 20 I thought everything was perfect. Then I developed a neuromuscular disease that crippled me and I had to quit work. Being home 24/7 gave me the opportunity to see what was really going on in my marriage. I've never been so hurt or shocked in my life than I was when I discovered my marriage was not what I believed it to be. It has taken a few years of fighting to finally find the way back. You can get there but it will take a considerable amount of effort and understanding on your part even when you are certain that you are not at fault. The biggest thing I have learned is that it does not matter who is right or wrong. What matters is how it was perceived and how it made her feel. She has a reason for feeling the way she does that is very real in her mind no matter how wrong she is or how misunderstood you are. You have to become her and understand the life she is living. You have to see life the way she sees life. Once you understand what's it like to be her you can learn how to communicate with her in the way she needs for you to. If you can do that she will notice and love you even more for making the effort to take care of her. As for sex, the quick answer is simple. Foreplay with no expectations. Sometimes she will not respond but when she does, she will need more foreplay. Once you have her interest make sure she knows your intention is only to please her. Let her know that you want her to feel pleasure and feel complete. Once you have her interested make sure she climaxes before you even start. Don't focus on yourself and don't worry about getting it yourself. Take care of that later in the shower if you don't succeed with her. It will require you to perform a lot of manual and oral stimulation on her. Learn how to be great at cunnilingus. Introduce a battery powered freind into the foreplay and you will melt her! Remember, if you want to be happy she has to be very happy first! 
Good Luck!

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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

slidewayzz said:


> *What matters is how it was perceived and how it made her feel.*


There is a saying that men joke about that "a woman is always right!" The emotionally correct version of that statement actually should be "a woman is always right when she tells her husband how she feels!" Why those feeling got there, and regardless of how they make you feel, THAT IS HOW SHE FEELS! *The next course of action is a loving marriage is to LISTEN to her and acknowledge how she feels!* Only then will the two of you as a couple be able to address those feeling and try to improve how they are managed in the relationship.

As for men, we do not get this opportunity. We have to deal with our feelings indirectly by guiding our wives to deal with her feelings in a way that ultimately promotes closeness and healing in the relationship. In other words, you have to allow her shît storm of emotions splatter all over your face, while you remain calm and steady until you can get her back sailing on a marital course with an even keel. It may help to literally think of yourself as a caption sailing through a sea of shît during a violent storm. You stay with your ship and help get it back on course, you don't say "fück you" and zip off in your dingy.



LawrenceOlympic said:


> @badsanta: It's sorta like that, except somehow* she always manages to make me feel* like everything is my fault. I wind up with a load of guilt and a kick to my self-esteem. I even felt guilty about getting so upset about what she said, like "WTF is wrong with me?!"


Once again you are still focusing on how YOU feel and blaming your wife's feelings for hurting you. You have to be strong and allow your wife to feel WHAT EVER THE F SHE WANTS TO FEEL, and use that feedback to help her steer things back on course and "feel better about how she feels."

Once you help her with that, guess what? You will feel better too!

That and you need to get your MIL some flowers when you feel the need to throw a passive aggressive tantrum. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> The punishing part is refusing to meet her needs until she meets his. Tit for tat.


The opposite of which is continuing to unequivocally meet her needs while she rarely meets his?

You call it tit for tat. I call it eliminating an investment without a return. 


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> The opposite of which is continuing to unequivocally meet her needs while she rarely meets his?
> 
> You call it tit for tat. I call it eliminating an investment without a return.
> 
> ...


The tit for tat is already there. It is the basis of their dynamic.

But he wants her to magically give up all of her feelings and just meet his needs. And the advice is mostly telling him to withdrawi from meeting her needs even further. Which, of course, will only cause her to respond in kind.

You can't leave someone hanging after sex, and expect them to want more sex with you. And refusing to meet all their other needs isn't going to change anyone's feelings on the matter.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

One who throws tantrums over not getting sex really can't complain about getting child treatment. 


Nobody finds a tantrum thrower attractive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

To me, her harsh words sound like someone frustrated and fed up. It's possible she's been trying to tell him for years what she likes but he hasn't heard her.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> A_A and JLD, while I agree he needs to hear what doesn't work for her, did I miss where she said to him what actually does work for her?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Some of the responses here to the OP have been somewhat cavemen and juvenile Hitting her over the head with a "get with the programme or else" response is not going to create desire in the OPs wife for him. 
Op when is the last time you actually romanced your wife, done something special, remember sex starts way before the time you get to bed, it involves the sneaky kisses, the gentle touches, hugs, etc. It's not right breast, left breast and then down there. Your love making sounds like the latter, maybe your self esteem has been affected, now it's time to sit diwn with the wifey and have a heart to heart. You can both work this out.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

LawrenceOlympic said:


> My wife and I have been together for 11 years, married for 5 1/2. I would say our sex life is the classic stereotype. It was great in the beginning, we both gave and received equally. Then we settled into the roles of the HD husband and LD wife, and all the problems that come with that (temper tantrums, hurt from rejection, claims of no romance, intimacy etc.) And now I have to work and work at it with the hopes of even being tossed a bread crumb.
> 
> Over the past 2 years or so, she's started saying things that hurt like:
> 
> ...


I may be nuts and please tell me so if I am, but the line I bolded above is an alarm bell to me. She seems to be telling you that she does not orgasm with you.

This isn't that uncommon. A very large percentage of women can not orgasm via PIV sex. Of those that can, many need stimulation for a period of time that most men can't provide.

If that is what you two have been having, the cure may be very simple. Switch to clitoral stimulation and make sure that she gets off before you do. And of course you can include PIV sex as well.

Of course, I could be dead wrong.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

He needs to back off the pressure, it is pushing her away. He heeds to give her space, which she is begging for. He does not need to pamper her, it isn't working. He needs to stop relying on her to fill his needs, because she isn't. 

How she reacts will help him to figure out what she is thinking. All he knows now is that she wants to sleep.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Throw 6kittens in the bed with her, and when she ask what's up with that, tell her it's pallbearers for her dead pvssy.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Here's a visual... just one cat but he's strong (22 lb)


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

The OPs story is a perfect example of a woman trying to get her point across, it is funny how some of the male posters are not picking it up. It is evident that this is a frustrated woman at the end of her rope with him that she has been forced to use harsh words. I'm sorry, but she is succeeding in getting her point across, albeit while hurting her husband's feelings.

Some men always state that women always give "hints" and are not blunt and straight forward in stating what their needs are, then when we do we are met with, "well gee you didn't have to say it like THAT?!"

Damned if we do and damned if we don't ....


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

jld said:


> We are telling him. And job number 1 is to get those arteries to the penis clear. That is where that link comes in.


If I asked you to get your carotid arteries clear so that you could think and reason clearly you would get irate Irene on me?

Learn the science before putting this crap argument on OP's plate. If mankind could clear their arteries [as you suggested] than we would have very, very few heart attacks and strokes. Statin drugs would not be needed, nor would ED drugs like Viagara, Levitra, Cialis, etc. 

Cardiac doctors would go out of business. THE SCIENCE IS NOT THERE, DEAR!

Not yet. Heart attacks are the second leading cause of death.

Oh, the peter is fed by small veins, not arteries. Getting a hard-on is a very involved, physiological process. Learn it.

For a women to have sex....get lubricated and lay back. Ouch, hurts does it not, when a man talks crap like that?

For her to have an orgasm....now that is a book length answer.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> To me it is unrealistic for her to say you can *never* go into a bar without her even if it's part of a business/networking function.
> 
> But part of her problem might be how she learns about it - by smelling tequillia on your breath afterward, as opposed to getting a phone call or text saying "Do you mind if I meet with Jeff over a drink."
> 
> ...


What is this? Did @WorkingWife mix up different threads? Easy to do!


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

SunCMars said:


> What is this? Did @WorkingWife mix up different threads? Easy to do!


I know, right? I saw that and thought - that must be in the wrong thread. But my quote shows the same user name for that comment and the originator of this thread, so I thought - maybe he brought up something new part way through.... Sometimes I have several tabs open at once so I can go back and forth copy/pasting from the original quote. I must have hit reply to the wrong one then posted the quoted text inside it. :scratchhead: :scratchhead: :scratchhead:

I'm going to delete the wrong one. (Now people will just think you are confused. :wink2: )


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## chatabox (May 4, 2016)

When was the last time you made out with your wife? Not to initiate sex, or try to get her to do some sexual favour. Just because you want to hug her and hold her. You could even tell her. "I don't want sex, but you look beautiful and I want to kiss you right now." You need to take the pressure off to have sex, but you have to make her want it. For women it's such an emotional thing. They need to feel wanted and loved and appreciated. Otherwise sex is a huge no-go. 

When is the last time you went down on her with absolutely no expectation to have the favour returned. When did you last give her a back rub, moisturise/massage her hands, or brush her hair? Touchy-feely is the best form of foreplay. Especially when it's not supposed to be about sex. It's just showing you care. It's a turn on for most women (not all though.) it won't happen instantly, but if you start doing those things and appreciating her, then she will probably want to return the favours. 

And you really need to look into what you can do about not lasting long. Both from your point of view, and also helping her out. Play with her longer beforehand. Make sure she gets to come too.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> If I asked you to get your carotid arteries clear so that you could think and reason clearly you would get irate Irene on me?
> 
> Learn the science before putting this crap argument on OP's plate. If mankind could clear their arteries [as you suggested] than we would have very, very few heart attacks and strokes. Statin drugs would not be needed, nor would ED drugs like Viagara, Levitra, Cialis, etc.
> 
> ...


The science is absolutely there. Dean Ornish published a study in the _Lancet _showing that a low fat (less than 10% fat) vegan diet can clear arteries of plaque over 25 years ago. Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, former heart surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic, has been using a similar low fat vegan diet for his patients. Compliance to the diet is key in clearing the arteries, and in keeping them clear.

And ED is often a sign of cardiovascular disease. The penile arteries are smaller than the arteries to the heart, and the body will prioritize the ones to the heart, for obvious reasons. See "Eat Yourself Impotent" by John McDougall.

There is a thread called "Veggie diet" here in SIM by a poster here who found that when he cut back on eating animal products, his sexual stamina returned to that of his early adulthood. 

The OP's wife's remarks need clarification, as far said. We all seem to be interpreting them a little differently.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

This is the SIM thread I was referring to:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/289730-veggie-diet.html


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Based on some of these comments it's not hard to see why some of you don't have the sex life you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Based on some of these comments it's not hard to see why some of you don't have the sex life you want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Applause!


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## BBF (May 21, 2015)

jld said:


> Applause!


Based on some of these comments it's easy to see why some of you are exwives.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BBF said:


> Based on some of these comments it's easy to see why some of you are exwives.


Jld is not an ex wife, and I divorced my ex while he fought it, so clearly wanted to remain married to me. 

I'm now happily remarried. 

Thanks for playing though!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> I know, right? I saw that and thought - that must be in the wrong thread. But my quote shows the same user name for that comment and the originator of this thread, so I thought - maybe he brought up something new part way through.... Sometimes I have several tabs open at once so I can go back and forth copy/pasting from the original quote. I must have hit reply to the wrong one then posted the quoted text inside it. :scratchhead: :scratchhead: :scratchhead:
> 
> I'm going to delete the wrong one. (Now people will just think you are confused. :wink2: )


Nah....they KNOW I am confused! 

I am not, of course. I am cryptic...to the extreme....lest I become the Common Man and not a Man for all Seasons". ;-|

Big Shoes for any Earthling to try on.... to trudge through this life, avoiding: set-in-stone Big Ego's, the wounded psyched Terrestrial Commuters and bi-pedal Ants that believe they are Unique.

I am an ant. Not Auntie May..rather auntie may-not. You pipsqueak!

Our *Planet is a relative dust-particle compared to the vastness of the visible Universe.

And *our* mass is a microcosm on this dust *ball.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Based on some of these comments it's not hard to see why some of you don't have the sex life you want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



And many on TAM worry [oh, so much] about someone else's genitals.

On TAM, we have the 2 x 4 swingers [which is OK with me]....and we have those that go for the nuts, and the male's hopefully *"Stand-at-Attention' Pride-Worthy Appendage* 
when challenged. 

Rather than challenge the substance of the argument, we get the sharp finger-nail. The pointing, painted curving *NAIL-JAB*: and what do they stab...you guessed it.....[the-excess-of...or...lack- of] Nuts, and the soft d!k

I consider this is a snide form of Gas Lighting. Change the topic...employ [punches below-the-belt] Ad Hominin attacks.

Using diversion and evasion in a debate are two effective means of deflecting the real issues. Note worthy, psychologically, I might add.

A worthy opponent should be able to defend their views without employing personal barbs. If you attack someone's appearance or their skin-covered-bag-of-bones then you are weak. 

We are born with whatever was handed to us. How it ages is often "out of our hands". Mother Natures hands are often calloused and abrasive. She slowly whittles us down....down, dwindled to oily dust, to be consumed by Ceres.

No one is perfect. I make every attempt to avoid attacking the person. If I do it, I too, am weak. I am employing knee-jerk retaliatory strikes. You pushed my buttons and I strike, as does a Cobra. This may work in Tae Kwon Do, but this is not discourse, tis' Strewn Wheat Chaff in a bag piper's Tempest.

And it may get one Banned....again.

I will agree, if you do not maintain your body, to the best of your ability, then you are subject to criticism, but it is still a weak offense.

Sad stuff...when the inside of someone's mouth becomes visible.

I see this as "Teeth that should be chewing celery delighting in chewing men"; and spitting them out [with sour face] as one does aged and sour prune pits.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

BBF said:


> Based on some of these comments it's easy to see why some of you are exwives.


I'm not ex wife. I've been married for 26 years.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> And many on TAM worry [oh, so much] about someone else's genitals.
> 
> On TAM, we have the 2 x 4 swingers [which is OK with me]....and we have those that go for the nuts, and the male's hopefully *"Stand-at-Attention' Pride-Worthy Appendage*
> when challenged.
> ...




Hon, it's fine to be cryptic but I have no idea what the hvll you just said. 

So I'll assume you want me to be more specific: if your answer to a woman who's made clear that her sexual needs are not being met by a tantrum throwing husband is to tell him to stop doing anything for her until she "meets his needs" (translation: stfu and put out) and to make cold fish comments, then it's not surprising if your sex life is lacking. 

A number of men here got it and addressed it and some didn't. You figure out where you land.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

And some peole say that I am deep... I've absolutely no idea what any of that means, yet I find it very entertaining all the same.




SunCMars said:


> Nah....they KNOW I am confused!
> 
> I am not, of course. I am cryptic...to the extreme....lest I become the Common Man and not a Man for all Seasons". ;-|
> 
> ...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

WorkingWife said:


> And some peole say that I am deep... I've absolutely no idea what any of that means, yet I find it very entertaining all the same.


Right? Despite the fact that I can't follow most of what he writes I actually find Mr. Mars to be quite likeable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort;15725969. You figure out where you land.
[size=1 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


Thanks, Dear-

I am in a self-huffed and jolly ego-inflated Hot Air Balloon. Once the feminine winds aloft get hold on my airborne basket and bat, I am dead meat.



With reference to OP's words:

Yes, I sniffed around the periphery and missed the post's Kernal. and the Corporal saluting him. 

I do wear *Bi-Focals* [**I do not like the sound of that!]. They do not properly focus AND direct the crossed-signals that fumble past the optic nerve. 

**I actually wear straight focals.

My take:

Most husbands mean well. I can safely say that [none] have had classes in Romanticism, Feminine Needs and Creeds, and "The How to do her a good flirty Orgasmic-Deed" man-you-all.

We learn [or not] by trial and err-her. 

Flying in the dark thing...again. It is hard to read the flight-plan using a blacked-out instrument panel. 

The Ladies need to hold the flash light.....not @badsantas fleshlight.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Thanks, Dear-
> 
> I am in a self-huffed and jolly ego-inflated Hot Air Balloon. Once the feminine winds aloft get hold on my airborne basket and bat, I am dead meat.
> 
> ...



Is a class in romanticism required to know your wife has her own sexual needs and if you don't tend to them eventually she don't want to have sex with you? 

If she comments that they're not being met you can ignore her, get butt hurt and pout, or dig further and try to remedy the situation. 

Have I missed an option?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dan13732 (May 5, 2016)

So is the end of your marriage? IT WILL BE IF YOU DON'T FIX THIS.

Sounds to me like she is being selfish. Sex is an integral part of being married, and it doesn't sounds like she's given you any viable alternatives other than pouncing on her in the morning.

Then again, we've only heard YOUR side of the story: THIS is what marriage therapy is for. Get a third party involved to get both parties to carefully communicate their needs, then see if the other can put aside recent minor hurts, and start to compromise so that every one can have at least a bit more of their needs met.

If you are having sex less than once a month, you are -- clinically -- "sexless". Point out to your wife this is a definition that therapists use. If you are there, she should be worried. If you are not yet, ask her how you are going to avoid getting there.

I have one tip for you:

Read the book "Forty Bead Method". It is about the wife giving up a tiny bit of control, and offering more sex in the marriage. This breaks the cycle of perceived scarcity of sex in the marriage, to the benefit of ALL.
If you think it might work, give it to her when you think she will be receptive. (Maybe after a few months of marital therapy -- sounds like you need to clear the air, first, and build up some better communication tools.)
If she reads it and gives you forty beads, it might save your marriage.
If she refuses to read it -- or reads it and maintains her defiant refusal -- you need to consider your next move... which may be headed toward the door.

Need more tips, support, time to discuss? We have a WHOLE FORUM dedicated to marital sexlessness. You are welcome to join us at ILIASM Forum. (ILIASM = I Live In A Sexless Marriage.)


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Is a class in romanticism required to know your wife has her own sexual needs and if you don't tend to them eventually she don't want to have sex with you?
> 
> If she comments that they're not being met you can ignore her, get butt hurt and pout, or dig further and try to remedy the situation.
> 
> ...


Yes, you have missed the option that we all ignore.

Accept that people are flawed and not let their irritating warts, idiosyncrasies and behaviors paralyze your interaction with them.

The [proverbial nutshell] option that you missed?~~~~>

"God give me strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference".

How many people can do this on a regular basis?

I struggle with this, everyday.


___________________________________________________

A side story, but hopefully apt:

My youngest daughter was very, very bright at a young age. She was also very sensitive to any negative things and remarks that she encountered.

She also took badly to rude, crude, intolerant classmates.

She used to complain to me "How dumb they are".

My answer? "Be grateful that they are dumb." What if they were as smart as you?" "Would you rather deal with very smart and mean classmates or just mean dumb ones"?

"They make you shine in comparison. Be grateful !" They cannot help it. Because they are dumb, they are mean".

My daughter looked at people differently after that.
______________________________________________________

People are what they are, and can "change" to a better state only so much.

Lawrence needs to maximize and own "his change" and so does his wife.

Will that happen? 

Hope is good....[the hope] must have time constraints and common sense expectations.

Life goes on....change gears...don't be that pillar of salt...immobile, frustrated and ignored by the busy commuters around you. 

I hope they can get over this.


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## slidewayzz (May 4, 2016)

jld said:


> The science is absolutely there. Dean Ornish published a study in the _Lancet _showing that a low fat (less than 10% fat) vegan diet can clear arteries of plaque over 25 years ago. Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, former heart surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic, has been using a similar low fat vegan diet for his patients. Compliance to the diet is key in clearing the arteries, and in keeping them clear.
> 
> And ED is often a sign of cardiovascular disease. The penile arteries are smaller than the arteries to the heart, and the body will prioritize the ones to the heart, for obvious reasons. See "Eat Yourself Impotent" by John McDougall.
> 
> ...




Suggesting the OP needs to resort to an artery cleansing vegan diet to correct his ED is very short sided. Certainly cardiovascular disease can play a part in ED but to assume the OP's ED can be resolved this way is very presumptuous! It's very possible and very probable that his ED has nothing to do with arterial plaque. There are so many different factors that contribute to ED, assuming his diet is his problem is purely speculative and adds nothing to address the OP's situation. It sounds to me that he can achieve an erection, he just has difficulty keeping it. I believe his situation is more a result of his emotional issues than any physical issues. A quick and very simple aid would be to utilize a **** ring or similar method of holding the blood in the penis once he achieves an erection. If he still has ED issues after resolving the emotional issues in his marriage then he should consult a physician to discuss his options. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> Yes, you have missed the option that we all ignore.
> 
> Accept that people are flawed and not let their irritating warts, idiosyncrasies and behaviors paralyze your interaction with them.
> 
> ...


Then the advice to the OP should be to simply accept that his wife isn't perfect and has her idiosyncrasies. One of which is not enjoying or wanting sex with OP.

Oh well.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Then the advice to the OP should be to simply accept that his wife isn't perfect and has her idiosyncrasies. One of which is not enjoying or wanting sex with OP.
> 
> Oh well.


One can make such an acceptance and still choose not to share a life with that person.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> One can make such an acceptance and still choose not to share a life with that person.


He can do whatever he wants with regards to who he's sharing a life with. However, if it's his nature to only worry about getting his, throwing tantrums when he doesn't, and getting butt hurt and pouty when his partner expresses that her needs aren't being met he will have the same issue with the next partner.

Why is there so much resistance here to the notion that the guys is not entitled to one sided sex? Because that's essentially what this comes down to.

Us women can find sex anywhere. A guy who's not concerned with pleasing his partner. .... not so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

WorkingOnMe said:


> One can make such an acceptance and still choose not to share a life with that person.


Good! Thanks!

This is how OP's should handle his wife. They are what they are...and that is: they are not [or no longer] compatible with each other. 

Instead of getting wrapped around the wife's low-speed, high-drag "axle"....gracefully move on with no malice, emulate No-Ado- McGoo.

*This would NOT be a NO FAULT divorce. It will be No-Bridge-Suitable divorce.*

If you accept [not enjoy] someone's faults, warts, idiosyncrasies and you do not let these things bleed off into your morning porridge you can live a much more comfortable life.

Hard to do. But that was my point. 

Humans get stuck in the weeds and never see the beautiful forest.

I have since abandoned [desire for] "smash and grab" human interaction. Even in my imagination.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> He can do whatever he wants with regards to who he's sharing a life with. However, if it's his nature to only worry about getting his, throwing tantrums when he doesn't, and getting butt hurt and pouty when his partner expresses that her needs aren't being met he will have the same issue with the next partner.
> 
> Why is there so much resistance here to the notion that the guys is not entitled to one sided sex? Because that's essentially what this comes down to.
> 
> Us women can find sex anywhere. A guy who's not concerned with pleasing his partner. .... not so much.


What she said!

If the sex is one-sided, he'll likely be doing her a favour by leaving.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

The OP seems to have left the zoo.


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