# We always thought we'd have children



## Jazzmin

We always thought we would have children. We agreed upon that when we met and fell in love during our Army assignment back in 2000. He was 29 and I was 25. We dated and lived together for four years before our marriage in 2004. No rush, we have plenty of time to start a family. I’ve always thought I would be a mom but never felt the time was right. We both got out of the military, finished our baccalaureate degrees and started new careers. I owned and operated a business for a few years and then in 2008 his biological clock’s ticking became loud banging. My clock was still ticking politely in the background. I knew I wasn’t getting any younger and the window of time was closing rapidly for my body’s ability to carry a child but I was still hesitant. We finally agreed that I would sell my store so that I could be a stay at home mom and we would start trying for a family. I was content with the decision then.


It took some time before we conceived and when we finally did, the pregnancies which had us both hopeful and happy for our future path were not successful. I had an early miscarriage, an ectopic pregnancy, a late 1st trimester miscarriage, and a preterm birth in the 2nd trimester. After losing the third baby, and carrying it in my womb for three more weeks waiting for the natural miscarriage, I decided that I didn’t want to keep trying for a baby. I suggested adoption, foster care and even surrogacy but my husband was set on wanting his own biological child. I decided that whether he liked it or not, I was going to go on birth control and called the clinic to order the IUD. That weekend, another pregnancy test came back positive. This time I wasn’t as happy but resolved to enjoy the pregnancy and trust (as everyone was saying) that I would love my new role as mother especially after we made it through the first trimester. Then we had a Trisomy 18 (fatal genetic defect) scare and two weeks later due to an unrelated infection, I gave birth to a baby who was too premature to survive. 

I now know for sure that I do not want to have a baby anymore and I am no longer open to adoption or surrogacy either. I love my husband and want to stay with him but I would rather move on to life as a childless family. If we had children in their teens as many of our peers do, no one would question that decision. I've had time to consider this and it isn’t just fear or grief talking. Here is a “Dear Abby” type letter that I wrote after the third loss and before the fourth which helps to depict that.


Friday, September 30, 2011
Dear Abby,
I’ve been with my husband since the end of 2000, we married in 2004. This is the second marriage for both of us and we have no children from either our first or this marriage. He’s 40 and I’m 36. My husband would like to have a child and I also thought I would like to be a parent “someday” so in 2008 I agreed to have a baby with him. It hasn’t worked out. I’ve suggested foster care or adoption especially to an older child but my husband won’t consider it. We’ve had an ectopic pregnancy that took my right fallopian tube, and a subsequent miscarriage. He’s been very supportive and understanding when I’ve been hospitalized or recuperating and I believe it brought us closer. I learned that when I fall back and am vulnerable, he will be there for me. I no longer want to continue trying to get pregnant and have tried to tell him so but he seems so disappointed that I acquiesce and continue on without birth control. I know marriage is about compromise so I do that in order to give him his heart’s desire. However, I see other things on our horizon and would rather we skip the “parents” role altogether. We wouldn’t have to worry about building onto the house, saving for college or having a teenager or young adult to deal with when we are ready to retire and “start” enjoying life. I’ve considered going back on the birth control (without telling my husband) in order to avoid the arguments and let him believe that it was “God’s Will” that we not have children but I don’t think that is fair or the right way to interact in a marriage. When I tell my family and close friends, they “poo poo” it away and say I will be a great mother, I’m just scared, or I’ll want the baby once I have it. I agree that I will make the best of any situation and I’ve been elated every time we’ve gotten pregnant but due to this situation and some other unresolved conflicts in the marriage, I’m considering breaking it off altogether. What should I do? Signed, “A Baby isn’t Everything”


Of course, Dear Abby can’t answer every letter that she receives but I did share it with my husband in 2011 and had a serious talk about how I was feeling. Then and now in 2012 he perceives my decision as giving up. He says if there was a physical reason that we couldn’t have a baby (which there may still be) that he could live with that but not if I just “choose” to quit because it is too hard or too emotional for me. It isn’t even that I am scared that I can’t handle losing a fifth or more. I know I can handle it, I got through the first four, I could get through another one but it isn’t fair to me to be stuck in this limbo. Honestly, I don’t see a baby as something that I need to live a fulfilling life. I feel that I am just ready to close that chapter of our life and start on a new one. What is wrong with wanting to look toward the sunset of life instead of diapers as I come closer to menopause? 


After I lost the fourth baby, at my post-natal appointment in March 2012 I had an IUD put in without his knowledge or consent. I’ve tried to broach the subject a bunch of times with my husband but I believe we are at an impasse. He still wants a baby of his own and said he doesn’t want me on birth control. He says I don’t have to get pregnant right away but he doesn’t offer to use a condom either. If I left it to chance, I would not feel good about a pregnancy or a baby. There is the very slightest chance that I could change my mind in the future while I am still of child-bearing age which is why I do not get my tubes tied but it is very remote and I don’t want my husband to hold onto that tiny speck and lose his chance. I love my husband enough to let him go so that he can pursue his dream. A couple months ago, I calmly told him that it was time that I packed a bag and went to stay with my mom so we could disentangle our lives and he could move on to find someone who is physically and emotionally capable of giving him the baby he so desperately thinks he needs. He said he didn’t want that but I know that he is just sticking around hoping that he can change my mind. I need him to accept this decision and me at face value. I’m scared that one day he will finally realize that what I am saying is fact and our marriage will end with resentment and unrealized dreams; his dreams of a family and mine of adventure, travel and love. I want to be enough for my husband, if it isn’t him there must be someone that I will be enough for. Someone who is at the same place in life and is alright with that place. I’ve finally coaxed my husband back into marriage counseling and we are working with a therapist to try to resolve this “deal breaker” in our marriage. 


I’ve opened this discussion because as I browsed the site, I saw a lot of people discussing a wife’s biological need to have a baby but not a husband’s and I observed a lot of couples who started out agreeing not to have children only to have the wife change her mind deciding that she wanted them. Well, there have to be more couples like my husband and me out there. Whom start out thinking that their life will follow one path only to discover that there are speed bumps or unexpected curves that lead to a change in direction and mindset. Please, give me some words of encouragement and a place to go for compassion as my husband and I work through this in marriage counseling. I don’t know if he will decide that I am enough family for him or not and I have to trust that we’ll be ok either way – together or apart – but I feel as if I can’t discuss this with my family and friends and need an impartial (although probably biased) jury to discuss this with.


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## colotnk

My husband and I struggled with infertility before, and although we didn't suffer miscarriages, I can imagine how devastating they are. Your story is heartbreaking.

I understand your desire to not have children. I also relate to your husband's position. It sounds like you're doing the right thing with MC. Does your MC specialize in infertility and miscarriages? It made a big difference for us.

Ultimately, it is up to your husband to decide and when to decide. You've explained your position pretty clearly and have done your part. Whatever reason your husband chooses to remain married to you, 

he thinks you've given up and he might be able to convince you down the road
he decides that having children is not as important as being married to you
Or if he decides to leave the marriage, it's his choice. Give him time to process and decide. Don't push him.

I was the one who desperately wanted children. I thought it would be a deal breaker for me. My husband and I now have two children. I love them more than anything in the world and they help deepen our marriage bond and love. 

But had I been in your husband's shoes, I would not leave the marriage. It would be a very hard decision to make and would take me a long time to get to.


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## Jazzmin

Thanks colotnk for your response. This is my first forum posting ever and I was wondering if I did something wrong so that others couldn't see it. I know it was a long post and I appreciate that you took the time to read it all. No, our marriage counselor doesn't specialize in loss, she's actually just got her license to practice but she seems to be helping. We are in a very small town so there aren't a lot of choices anyway. I went into therapy hoping to deal with more than just the baby issue but I guess what is the point of delving into other problems and learning better communication skills when this big issue could be a deal breaker? So, she kept steering the topic back to this because she knew I hate that my husband doesn't know that I got the IUD put in and that I am firm in my decision. I hope my husband decides we are a family without children but I am prepared for the pain of a break-up if he needs more.


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## Vizion

You are a very strong women and I cant begin to imagin the physical and emotional trauma you have endured. I think you have done all that can be expected of you and he should respect that. you mentioned marriage being a compromise, damn right and its his turn. he is being a selfish SOB. If I had seen my wife go through half what you have been through I would respect her wishes not to continue trying. Isnt this getting dangerous for your health. I'm sorry but this makes me angry. I hope you can make him realize and continue your marriage. God bless


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## Wanting1

I think your feelings are valid. But so are his. He wants a biological child. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make him selfish to want to hold his biological child in his arms. And I also don't think it makes you selfish to say that your body has been through enough. That emotionally you can't handle the process anymore.
I think you shouldn't be lying to him about being your IUD, though.

Also, you need to speak honestly with your husband about how deep your conviction of having no children is. It's fair to him to give him the truth of your feelings and the situation as it stands. This may be a deal breaker for him. May not be. But stealing the choice from him is wrong and not fair. 

I hope you will both be able to move forward with peace and respect to each other, whether that is together or apart.


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## Jazzmin

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> you need to speak honestly with your husband about how deep your conviction of having no children is. It's fair to him to give him the truth of your feelings and the situation as it stands. This may be a deal breaker for him. May not be. But stealing the choice from him is wrong and not fair.


Thanks so much for your well thought out response. I have spoken with my husband over and over again about being done but he chooses not to hear that. He chooses to think that with time I will change my mind. I understand his confusion considering that I was willing to be pregnant four other times, it is just that I no longer want to pursue that path in our life. If I was talking about a career change (like when I transitioned from military to business owner) it would be easier to relate to and for him to hear but it is harder to understand why I wouldn't want to transition from my career as wife to beloved mother of his children when I once had aspirations to do so. I told our marriage counselor that I have the IUD in and that I want to be able to tell him in a safe environment. I really hate that he doesn't know. With her encouragement, I have told him over and over again phrased in all sorts of ways that I no longer want to have children...he still hasn't heard. I believe that is why she is working so hard to figure out why he has such a conviction toward having a baby. Perhaps....Oh, I don't know. We are trying to figure out what hole he thinks a baby will fill. I wish he would open up more but he isn't used to identifying his feelings and giving them a voice. I can only hope that we will get there.


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## michelle38

I never had any miscarriages, but I went thru 10 years of infertility hell and finally had an ovum donation. So I think I understand some of your pain. 

However, it was also obvious during these years my h would never give up. Adoption was brought up but he would not even consider it. 

It seems for some men, having a biological child is the only way to go, and I validate that. 

BTW, I love my son to no end. I also wanted a child badly and have never looked back on the donation. But I am trying to think from your h's side here, not giving my female point of view. 

What I'm trying to say is, your h might never be able to accept the idea of not having a biological child. Therefore, you guys have to come to some kind of compromise or solution to that. 

Best luck.


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## Jazzmin

michelle38 said:


> It seems for some men, having a biological child is the only way to go, and I validate that. What I'm trying to say is, your h might never be able to accept the idea of not having a biological child.


Michelle, Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. I understand that he may never be able to give that up and I respect that. However, I also know that it isn't as important to me...that is why I thought I would have to let him go to pursue that dream. We left marital counseling this Tuesday with the counselor telling him that he needs to decide if he can go on with me without a child or not. She thought we should set a deadline but I let him off of that commitment because he doesn't do well when he feels rushed. I want him to take as much time as he needs but it can't go on forever. The day after that session, I asked him if he thought anymore on it and if he had any questions or needed to discuss it again and he declined to do either. I told him that I didn't expect him to have a decision within 24 hours and I let the topic drop. I trust that the therapist will ask him for a decision next week and if he doesn't have one, then we will delve more deeply into the topic again. God, I hope he chooses to stay with me and move on together but either way, I'm ready to pursue new adventures.


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## Tikii

The thing that bothers me most here, is the fact that you are lying to him about the IUD. Even if he doesn't want to accept that you are never going to want a child, doesn't mean that he should have the false hope that there is a possibility that it could happen or that you are open to that possibility. He has the right to know that you are not only not wanting to get pregnant again, but that you are doing everything you can to prevent it.

My husband and I are currently suffering from infertility. There have been times where one of us or the other has wanted to give up, but never have. Personally if either of us decided to NEVER have children willingly, I don't know if the other would stay. 

I think you need to continue MC, but be prepared for him to walk away. You are asking him to give up something that he sees as a need, and something that he absolutely needs to have in his lfe. I understand you have been through a lot, but so has he. For him to experience all of that, and not have a child to love for it, may be a breaking point.


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## Jazzmin

Tikii said:


> For him to experience all of that, and not have a child to love for it, may be a breaking point.


Hi Tikii, thanks for reading my entire back story and taking the time to share and weigh-in. You make a very valid point about his going through all of this and not having the prize at the end. However, even if I relent and keep trying to bear his child, he may still not have the baby at the end. It isn't just that I emotionally can't give him a child, it is that I have been physically unable to do so as well. He's 41 and I'm 37; the window is closing fast. I need him to accept that our life would be ok with just us sharing it - whether by choice or fate and I don't think he could accept either one. I feel that he has to face the very distinct reality that we won't be parents even if I give in and keep trying to conceive his biological child.

One of my fears too is that he is looking more at the trophy than the actual job of being a parent. Especially parenting a little one when we are over 40. Not that he wouldn't be a good parent, it is just that based on my experience with the division of labor for our pets and farm animals, it isn't equal. He would share in the responsibility but expect me to shoulder a larger percentage. I don't want to dedicate 40-60 to raising a baby which is why in the past I had suggested we adopt an older child as well.


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## Tikii

I personally feel that, from experience suffering from infertility and loss, that trying and failing is far more easy to bare than giving up and not trying at all. 

If I am unable to have kids, I will not resent my husband, but if he were to keep me from trying, I would.


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## Jazzmin

Tikii said:


> trying and failing is far more easy to bare than giving up and not trying at all.


At what point do we declare the trying to conceive over and define the experiment as a failure? It isn't that I didn't try at all, it is that I tried and my body failed. I could lose another for unexplained developmental reasons. I have a very real possibility for another ectopic pregnancy in my remaining Fallopian tube and a real risk of health issues or death if it ruptures. There is a very real possibility of having his biological child with extra chromosomes due to our advanced ages so we would either have a baby with a fatal defect or one with severe health and mental issues. The risk of infections will always be there too. When we are trying to conceive I have to stay off certain medications that I need and I won't drink alcohol; I have to alter my daily life so it isn't like it would just be a surprise while we are going on with our lives in a regular fashion. And if we do conceive again, I'll never be able to relax and enjoy 40 weeks of pregnancy due to the risk factors that are there (real for us not just statistically imagined) and there have been different reasons for the losses each time so it isn't like there is something that can be "fixed" by the doctors. To say that we've "made it further each time" holds no water because this isn't a practice makes perfect or I can train my body to hold onto the baby. I just want to move on and find joy through other avenues. I enjoy volunteering at the youth center and mentoring teens and I don't need to bring another life into this world to feel like I am contributing to the future generations. I can be part of the village that helps others with their children and feel fulfilled.

I tried to explain it like this to him. If I decided to take up a new sport, say, basketball and played it frequently through practice and games and did this for years but I got hurt a lot and never won a game in all that time. If I still kept up with it through the losses and injuries but no longer enjoyed it so I decided to try a new sport that might agree with me better, would anyone call me a quitter?


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## Tikii

Jazzmin said:


> At what point do we declare the trying to conceive over and define the experiment as a failure? It isn't that I didn't try at all, it is that I tried and my body failed. I could lose another for unexplained developmental reasons. I have a very real possibility for another ectopic pregnancy in my remaining Fallopian tube and a real risk of health issues or death if it ruptures. There is a very real possibility of having his biological child with extra chromosomes due to our advanced ages so we would either have a baby with a fatal defect or one with severe health and mental issues. The risk of infections will always be there too. When we are trying to conceive I have to stay off certain medications that I need and I won't drink alcohol; I have to alter my daily life so it isn't like it would just be a surprise while we are going on with our lives in a regular fashion. And if we do conceive again, I'll never be able to relax and enjoy 40 weeks of pregnancy due to the risk factors that are there (real for us not just statistically imagined) and there have been different reasons for the losses each time so it isn't like there is something that can be "fixed" by the doctors. To say that we've "made it further each time" holds no water because this isn't a practice makes perfect or I can train my body to hold onto the baby. I just want to move on and find joy through other avenues. I enjoy volunteering at the youth center and mentoring teens and I don't need to bring another life into this world to feel like I am contributing to the future generations. I can be part of the village that helps others with their children and feel fulfilled.
> 
> I tried to explain it like this to him. If I decided to take up a new sport, say, basketball and played it frequently through practice and games and did this for years but I got hurt a lot and never won a game in all that time. If I still kept up with it through the losses and injuries but no longer enjoyed it so I decided to try a new sport that might agree with me better, would anyone call me a quitter?


It is up to you as a couple to decide that, but in all honesty, you aren't that old. My mother is neary 49 years old and is TTC. Her doctor has told her that even at her age, it is worth getting pregnant, despite a loss.

It is great that you feel that you don't need a child in your life, but he does. Can you really expect him to suffer wen there is a possibility of it happening else where? He could and likely will end up with resentment etc.

There is a HUGE difference between YOU playing a sport, and you trying to have a child with your HUSBAND. The sport is just about you, having a child isn't. No one is saying that you have to keep trying, but you cannot blame him for finding what he wants with someone else if necessary. It isn't just you who would be have a childless life, it is a choice being made for him as well. If he isn't willing to live a childless life, and you aren't willing to try, there really is only one answer.


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## Jazzmin

Tiki, Thank you so much for sharing your insight and perspective. I did click on your username and read some of your other posts and I can clearly see where you are coming from in all of this. I think you are helping me to better see and feel his side by sharing your view points. My dilemma is that we haven't decided it as a couple, he is still holding onto the dream and I want to face reality.

It must be very hard for you to have to sit back and watch your mother who is nearly 50 do what your heart so desires to do. Even though I have decided that I am ready to move on, I still get that surge of anger and jealousy when family and friends announce that they are expecting. I want to be happy for them, I really do, but I still grieve the loss of that portion of my life that I will never experience. I know that I can find joy in other aspects of life but there will always be this one thing that I wasn't able to do for myself and my husband. For the most part, I've made peace with it and decided to move on but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt, that I don't have doubts, especially when I know that my desire for self-preservation and moving on could hurt my husband's happiness so much. 

Sorry if my sports analogy seemed offensive. I just don't know how else to explain it. Would it have been a better analogy if I had said that we were both playing the sport together?

I'm certainly not addressing this impasse in my marriage as a way to assign blame. I want him to be happy and if a child is the only thing that he thinks will make him happy, he will continue to desire that. However, the counselor asked him about what happiness looked like, what a perfect day was to him, what the future looked like and he couldn't picture those things or put them to voice. I think he might be so set on the idea that he hasn't stopped to consider the other possibilities for now and the future.


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## Jazzmin

Have you ever seen the sci-fi movie, "What Dreams May Come" with Robin Williams in it? This is another analogy that I've used to try to help my husband to accept my perspective. 

Robin Williams' character Chris dies and finds himself in a heaven more amazing than he could have ever dreamed of. It is a heaven of his own creation. There is one thing missing: his wife Annie. After they lost their children in a car accident and then he died, his wife, killed herself and goes to a hell of her own assignment and making. Chris decides to risk eternity in hell for the small chance that he will be able to bring her back to heaven with him. Taking it upon himself to rescue her, Chris ventures into the pit of Hell to save his wife from the damnation she doesn't even know she is forcing on herself. It isn't until he realizes that he loves her enough to stay with her in hell to hold her and comfort her promising to spend forever by her side in her plane of existence that they are able to truly find each other again. He spent so much time trying to save her and bring her back to his heaven that he didn't realize that he just needed to empathize and join her for them to be truly happy and in a shared vision of heaven once again. This line that Chris uses in the movie says a lot, "That's when I realized I'm part of the problem. Not because I remind you. But because I couldn't join you. So I left you alone. Don't give up, okay?"

I guess what I'm saying with this is that I need the same acceptance and unconditional love that I am offering him. If he isn't able to stay with a woman who is physically unable to give him a baby, I deserve to know now, not after menopause. If I am going to be alone, I'd like to face that now and not be blindsided with it later. I need to know that I am enough and that he will honor his vows and stay whether we conceive again or not. I don't want him to stay and then be resentful. I don't need him to rescue me from whatever hell that he perceives that I have made for myself. I need us. We may each have started out with the same dream and gotten away from that but it doesn't mean that we can't still have the heaven of our choosing together whether it is far from our original dream or not is inconsequential to me.


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## colotnk

I don't see the point of questioning the OP's decision for not trying again. Everybody has a limit and it sounds like she's reached hers. She has also considered other factors such as her health risk, her husband's role as a parent, their age and the potential health impact on their child(ren). All are very valid considerations.

I understand the desire to have children, biologically or not. But when someone who's tried over and over again wanted to 'quit', I fully respect it.

OP, you're not a 'quitter'. You want kids but can't. I'm sorry for your pain. But only you and your husband can decide when enough is enough. Unfortunately, you are not on the same page right now. I wish you the best of luck with MC and hope it will work out for you two at the end, with or without children.


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## Tikii

I am in no way saying you should continue to try if it isn't right for you, but I was just trying to help you understand his point of view. I know for me personally, having a childless life will be a living hell for me. It is possible that is how your husband is feeling. It doesn't mean we don't understand the pain our partners are going through, it just means we cope differently and have different hopes for the future.

You two may never come to an agreement and that's fine, you shouldn't feel like you have done anything wrong, because you are not doing anything wrong. You also shouldn't give in to what he wants. As much as you don't want to try again, he does. You two are in the exact same position, just on differet teams. I think MC is the best way to sort this out, because I honestly don't know how to make something like this work out. I'd probably throw in the towel and walk away...but that's just me. I am too stubborn and too hot headed to be patient in this kind of situation. You're doing better than I ever would.


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## Tikii

colotnk said:


> I don't see the point of questioning the OP's decision for not trying again.
> 
> I understand the desire to have children, biologically or not. But when someone who's tried over and over again wanted to 'quit', I fully respect it.


If you are referring to me, I am in no way questioning the decision of the OP, I suggest you re-read. I merely stated that if they cannot reach a compromise, they may have to find their own happiness.

Unless it is your relationship, you cannot really say that. I have been in the similar position to the OP. I can say without a doubt after going through this thread, that if my husband said he wanted to "quit", I would file papers tomorrow. Having a child in my life is something that I WILL have, with or without my husband.


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## 日本顎の恋人

Jazzmin, google "the childfree life". 

It will take you to a forum of people, most of whom have who have chosen the CF life from the beginning, but they are also very understanding and supportive of those who came to (or are considering) the decision by a more torturous route, like yours.


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## michelle38

Disclaimer: I am fully aware of your decision and the following is just using my scenario to see it from the man's point of view.

When I went thru a full infertility work-up, every reason had to be explored. So at first I was deemed completely normal, then difficult to stimulate, then premature ovarian failure. At each stage, there were things to do. When I was still "normal", artificial insemination was tried. When my ovaries started failing, more stimulation medications were given. When the ovaries completely failed, an ovum donor was the last resource. 

So, every woman is different. I do not know how much your h has looked into this. Let's assume he is as scientific as my h (who is a real scientist). His attitude was basically "whatever the problem is, we will attack it." For argument's sake, you lost one fallopian tube, but if you got an IVF that completely bypasses the tubes. You had trouble with miscarriage, progesterone shots/supplements can help. You had a trisomy 18 baby, but that's not hereditary. 

Let's even assume you do have problems with your eggs. And assuming your h has normal sperm, then ovum donation can give you a healthy baby. 

PLEASE again understand I am in no way arguing you need to go thru this, and let me say again I know the pain of getting hope, then getting disappointed. I am just pointing out your h might have the same line of thinking my h had. He understood I was going thru hell too but never wanted to give up. 

There was one time when I gave up the hope. This was when we were finally told ovum donation was the only way to go (and heck it's the craziest process besides surrogate). I had doubts too. Not about the process, but about myself. I did not want to treat my baby in ANY way different than treating a child carrying my own genetic material. However, I did want the child badly. (and any doubts I ever had--not a molecule left on this planet now). So I am not saying you and I have any similarity. Again I am talking about h's mentality here. You can pretty much say give up was not in my h's dictionary. He knew he had normal sperm so he kept "working on it". 

You really need to sit down and put all cards on the table with your husband. Whatever hope he has, if he has researched and thought about any other means for you guys to have a biological child, you need to hear it from him. He needs to get it out of his system. Then you tell him your responses. 

And finally, this hidden IUD method is just not gonna fly.


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## Jazzmin

I brought up the decision/discussion with my husband again last night. I asked him if he wanted to wait to discuss it until we got back into marriage counseling or if he would like to have a conversation about it before. He said that we could discuss it before. So, last night while lying in the hammock and looking up at the stars (we did see half a dozen shooting stars) I told him that I didn't feel safe in our relationship with this issue lying between us unresolved. He told me that he understood and then he told me that he wouldn't leave me even if I didn't want to have children anymore. That we would stay together no matter what. 

My heart felt lighter but I told him that I didn't want him to stay if it would fester and build to resentment in the years to come and he said that he didn't think that it would. He acknowledged that we've been fine this long without them and that children would admittedly be a drastic change in our life. I reminded him that even before these conversations that he agreed that this wasn't the right time (just changed jobs due to lay-off and hates the new one so probably have to quit and relocate) and he agreed again.

He did still have the hope that we could explore other options for having a family later and said he didn't really know what those options were. I believe firmly in empowering people so I told him "if" we both decided that we wanted to try again, that we could do it naturally because we've conceived so far and I do not have a hostile womb or incompetent cervix or other obvious medical issues that would preclude that. I told him about insemination, what having one Fallopian tube meant and that ovum donation could be a possibility due to the age of my eggs. I reiterated that I would really rather move on as a childless couple though so that he would understand that discussing fertility options was not the same as saying that I will try again.

I asked him, "so what about birth control?" He said it would be fine. After some more quiet time in the hammock, I told him that when we went to the post-natal check-up and I sent him out of the room to give paperwork to the receptionist, that I had the doctor put the IUD in. I told him that I just didn't think he was ready at the time and was hopeful that he would be soon so I was trying to give him more time. That I had brought birth control up a lot since then and was hoping to bring him around to it but that he teared up and got so closed off each time that I never could tell him. I told him that I was sorry that I had let it go on for so long (a little over three months) and he said that he understood. 

So, I just wanted each of you to know that we still have some discussions and strengthening of our communication to get through. He'll still have some issue with this that he is trying to repress, but we'll work to stay together and that is the best outcome to this situation that I can hope for. I am happy and feel that I am back on more solid footing. 

I'm so pleased that the dishonesty about the IUD is behind us. I knew he needed to know and I was trying to do so but it took some adamant statements from you folks to give me that extra push that I needed to tell him immediately. Thanks so much to each of you for your part in this. I'll come back and keep you updated for a little while.


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## Jazzmin

日本顎の恋人;943103 said:


> google "the childfree life"


I did as you suggested and got to a sight that wasn't very easy to navigate. I did read a few posts but unfortunately, those posters didn't seem to have a welcoming attitude toward "infertility issues" or child-free not by choice. I did notice that they had a fence-sitters place and if I need some more support in that arena, I might spend some more time there. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Jazzmin

michelle38 said:


> His attitude was basically "whatever the problem is, we will attack it." ... And assuming your h has normal sperm, ... He understood I was going thru hell too but never wanted to give up.
> 
> There was one time when I gave up the hope. ...However, I did want the child badly. ...You can pretty much say give up was not in my h's dictionary. He knew he had normal sperm so he kept "working on it".
> 
> And finally, this hidden IUD method is just not gonna fly.


Michelle, Thank you. It is wonderful to hear from someone in equally difficult circumstances. My husband does have a sperm count that is within standards and my hysterosalpingram showed no obvious issues with my plumbing. He doesn't want to give up but I don't consider moving on being a quitter. I know that my husband also understands that I am going through hell and he doesn't want to force me to keep going. Thankfully, he has enough compassion to empathize. The difference between you and me, however, is that even though you had lapses in faith and weak moments, you were sure that you wanted to have children and I am not. You husband was helping to pull you back to a path that you wanted to be on. 

I don't want to make trying to conceive or adopt our occupation and I choose to move on. I think he'll be happy with staying as long as we work to find other goals and adventures to meet together.

I told him last night about the IUD, I had wanted to all along, I just didn't want to kick the man while he was down. It took having you folks tell me how important it would be to you to know that the method was being used by us to push me past my fear of hurting him and let him know. Everyone grieves differently and on a different schedule and I wanted him to have a chance to get over our fourth loss before asking him to face another one before he was ready. I think I waited the right amount of time even though the secret was feeling rather corrosive to me.

Again, Thanks so much for your comments.


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## Jazzmin

colotnk said:


> I don't see the point of questioning the OP's decision for not trying again. Everybody has a limit and it sounds like she's reached hers.
> 
> OP, you're not a 'quitter'. You want kids but can't.


Awe, thanks so much for sticking up for me. I knew what I might be getting into when I came on here and I was prepared for it. I needed to hear from people whom might have similar opinions as my husband. Nonetheless, I shed a tear when you validated my feelings and told me that it is ok for me to feel this way even when it is in opposition to the way that my husband (and other posters) might be feeling. 

I don't know if I was to start trying to conceive with my husband again if I would ever be able to take the baby to term or not and I'll probably never know. I won't feel 100% ok with that all the time but I think that is alright. I just know that there are other joys to experience in life and I choose not to stay in a painful limbo anymore. I want to get back to focusing on joy!


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## Jazzmin

Tikii said:


> I was just trying to help you understand his point of view. I know for me personally, having a childless life will be a living hell for me.
> 
> I think MC is the best way to sort this out, because I honestly don't know how to make something like this work out. I'd probably throw in the towel and walk away...but that's just me. I am too stubborn and too hot headed to be patient in this kind of situation. You're doing better than I ever would.


Tikii, you are helping me to understand my husband's point of view and I appreciate it. I think you are very passionate in your convictions (probably much more so than my husband) and I am sorry that you are living in hell. You say that a childless life would be hell for you, you are living a childless life, you don't have a choice right now. This is not a would be situation, you are living it. I hope that you either have the children that you and your husband so desperately desire or that you find peace with the direction that your life ends up. Whatever the case, if you and your husband ever find yourself on opposing ends of this debate, I wish for you to remember the other perspective and ask yourself if it is more important to be a family with him or to be a parent because family is comprised of so many more loves and lives than just a couple continuing their bloodlines. I'll be forever grateful for your assistance. Sincerely, Jazzmin


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## Jazzmin

One year update: Thanks everyone!! My husband and I have stayed together and my IUD has remained in. We are continuing on in agreement that we won't be pursuing children again. He seems to have accepted the decision as ours instead of just mine and doesn't appear to be resentful about it or passively aggressive toward me. We've had to move (leaving behind the resting place of our baby) and it took us a while to get with a new marriage counselor but we are still doing well with one another and committed to continuing on our path together. 

Leaving the farm we had lived on for 11 years which included the tree under which we said our marriage vows and buried our last baby and pets was harder than we realized it would be. I did have a really bad bout with depression, residual grief, and suicidal thoughts after our move (it lasted 8 months wherein I spent a lot of time stuffing my face in front of the TV or in bed, and hardly unpacked or settled into the house) but I am on a higher dose of meds, increased individual counseling and doing much better now. 

We've had to rethink what it means to be a childless couple. The life that we live is solely our own and we have to reevaluate our reasons for pursuing and acquiring. There no longer are the "one day when we have children we will go, see, or do..." or "We should buy the best so that it will be an heirloom for our children" phrases. There isn't a need to buy a house with room for an expanding family or plan for children and the changes and expenses that come with them. We scaled down our acreage and "wholesome farm life" since we are no longer concerned with providing a well-rounded childhood for anyone. 

Basically, we are finding contentment and on a solid footing in our 13 year relationship once again. I wanted to be sure to provide an update for folks who contributed or come across this thread as it probably relates to issues that they are dealing with too.


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## EuropeanWifey

Jazzmin, I have just come across your post and I want to say a sincere thank you for sharing your story, and following up on it. I have always wanted children too and have yet to start trying (I am 26 and married). I don't know whether I will encounter similar issues as you, but it still helps to have read about the possible hardships and how a married couple, such as yours, dealt with it. I am sure I speak for everyone when I say that I admire your love and care for both you and your husband, and the amount of concern and effort you have put into your relationships. I am sorry to hear that you have been going through a very hard time since you have moved, and am glad that you are doing much better now. I am also glad that your husband has accepted the decision of not pursuing having children as mutual agreement. Lots of love to both you, and I hope you are pursuing your dreams.


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