# Asking for sex. A cardinal sin or just a part of normal life?



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't know if it's the dominant belief or not, but there is a cadre of posters on here that believe that you should NEVER ask for sex. This belief appears to be targeted for husbands asking their wives for sex, and the reverse situation is not an issue. Feel free to correct my assumption if this belief is meant to apply to both sexes.

My personal opinion - based on my experience with being married - is that asking for sex is really not that big of a deal. I don't think it automatically leads to "diminished sex rank" in your wife's eyes, or that you are pathetic. People will use the phrase "Don't ask your wife for sex because you'll come across as being needy". Well...yeah. Of course I'm needy if there is a lack of sex. What I think happens is that people fail to make the distinction between "needs" and "being needy". We were given a prime example of that in the Men's clubhouse on a Father's day thread started by WOM: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/88906-fathers-day-offences.html 

I'm not trying to single out WOM because I respect his views on a number of topics. But he did put up what I think is a fascinating thread for discussion purposes. He was clearly bothered by not being acknowledged on Father's Day. I feel for him, and based on what he wrote I would feel upset if I was him too. But a few people - and perhaps his initial thoughts himself - were to keep the hurt feelings buried because he didn't want to come across as being needy. He ultimately did say something to his wife, and in reality he helped himself out. I don't want to speak for WOM, but I don't think he's a needy person. However, he had a need to be acknowledged and validated on a day that is to honor fathers. He didn't get it. Does that automatically drop his sex rank because he communicated his feelings? It should not because he's an otherwise confident guy that respects himself.

This leads to my thoughts on sex. We're human. We have needs for intimacy. If we don't get those needs met - overtime we become needy. If your marital situation is pretty strong and you normally have a healthy sex life, I don't believe that it's wrong or that it will diminish you in your wife's eyes if you make a comment about the lack of sex if you happen to be in a dry spell. Let's be honest. When you broach a subject with your spouse, the declarative sentences you verbalize are in reality questions about meeting your needs. Stating in a confident voice "We need a more active sex life and I expect it to start today" is in reality "Will you have sex with me more often?". Most people aren't stupid and can see a request - no matter how "alpha" you make the request. 

Now if you are a husband and you come to your wife with tears streaming down your cheeks and are pleading for sex, then that looks pathetic. But if you have a candid conversation giving your view to your wife that you two haven't been reconnecting lately and "why don't we change that tonight?" does not look pathetic to me at all. It looks honest.

So tell me your thoughts. Do you believe that it's bad for a man to ask his wife for sex no matter what? Or do you make the distinction between asking for sex vs begging for sex? In my mind, begging is the real killer of sexual passion - not asking.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

I wish my husband would ask for it. Currently, the frequency of our sex life rests solely upon my shoulders.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Asking is one thing, begging is another. Why not just bust a move. If she rejects you just brush her off and go do your own thing. Of course Im not going to do that either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatcleanhippyguy (May 17, 2013)

I used to ask her all the time and I just can't do it anymore. Wife would do be very cool with coming through on my request but when we would get in the act she would just lay there and have the "just be done with it" look in her eyes. 

I'm all about quality vs quantity now. She has to be in the mood orwise it's just a mood killer.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I think that if you're in a healthy place it isn't a problem. However when h and I were first married I was deep in 'good girl' thinking that sex is dirty and shameful. If h asked if I wanted to have sex my built in response that had been inculcated in me from childhood was no. Even if I did want to have sex, a yes or no question was really hard to say yes to. It took several years to retrain that reflexive answer.

H still doesn't usually ask me for sex he usually tells me what we are going to be doing later, starts to touch me, or just gives me that look. Sex for us usually works better if we start foreplay hours ahead of time.If he just jumped into bed and asked out of the blue without any earlier signs of being in the mood, it would take me longer to get into it.

Pouting or anger is really a turnoff though. As is any kind of comment about him needing sex. Sex isn't something I do for him, that would be a hooker. Sex is something for both of us.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I've been told here that you should never ask or beg for sex ever. Be more alpha male, initiate, but when you are constantly turned down, you can't get mad either and just take it. Then we stop initiating and our spouses get mad and say we are the problem?!

In a healthy sexual matched marriage, you never have to beg, ask or get constantly turned down.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

> So tell me your thoughts. Do you believe that it's bad for a man to ask his wife for sex no matter what? Or do you make the distinction between asking for sex vs begging for sex? In my mind, begging is the real killer of sexual passion - not asking.


It's not a gender issue. There are plenty of women here - and plenty of women I have met on other forums - who are going short on sex. 

I think it's okay to ask for sex. I just don't think it's okay to press someone for sex, to nag them, to push them and persuade and/or bug them until they give up 'duty' sex. That's just degrading to both parties and will kill the love in that marriage.

I do agree that when both parties have healthy attitudes towards sex, it usually happens without asking because both people are directed towards intimacy and pleasing each other. But when one turns it into a freakin' battlefield, then it becomes SO depressing.


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## salamander (Apr 2, 2013)

My H knows how to sweet talk me. I am a sucker for flattery. He'll just start talking about how much he loves and lusts me. He gives me that sexy look, and tells me how much he loves my body. I'm a wife who loves to be groped, though. I've read some here don't. When he looks at me like that and says those things, I'm in his arms with his hands all over me.

The asking is embedded in the flattery stage. If I'm not in the mood, I argue with his compliments. I'm not beautiful, I'm bloated and crabby, for example. Or no, my booty is not hot, it's wide, and I'm wearing granny panties with a huge maxi pad. HAHAHA!!!!

Sometimes he does ask, and those times are the least successful. He'll come up to me while I'm busy and tell me he's horny and those eyes get kinda puppy dog pleading. I feel pressured to drop everything and give him a quickie. Instead, I try to schedule sex for later that night or whatever, when he approaches me that way.

I initiate a lot, mostly by flashing him or pouncing on him. And yes, he does turn me down as often or more as I turn him down. Who cares? We have sex a lot, and we plan to stay together forever, so it's not like there won't be a next time. 

:-D


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Thound said:


> Asking is one thing, begging is another. Why not just bust a move. If she rejects you just brush her off and go do your own thing. Of course Im not going to do that either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah I agree with Thound here... asking really doesn't serve much purpose IMO. Better off to just initiate and see what happens, that is more alpha and would probably have a better chance of working anyway (not that it always does).

I disagree that asking for sex doesn't lower your sex rank. I think it does. However the lowering is subconscious, it's not as if the wife will be actively thinking there is anything wrong with H asking. Rationally it is a reasonable request. However on a subconscious level it will make the man less attractive simply because rather than just taking what he wants (figure of speech - I am NOT advocating forcing yourself on anyone!), he is asking. That is simply not alpha behavior.

I think the default setting should be that if either partner initiates sex, the other will most likely respond. This makes both partners feel good about themselves, and they will know the occasional "not tonight honey" is genuine and not a sign of lack of attraction. Having to ask, for either partner, puts the other in a position of "granting/denying their request" which shifts the dynamic in an unhelpful way IMO.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I think there are situations where men and women think of themselves as being in a zero sum game. If one spouse is "getting something", the other spouse is "losing something". I think it's a terrible way to view a marriage overall as well as sex in marriage. I think some of this thinking is permeated by Athol Kay and his MMSLP and the info that people point to from Roissey. I understand that Athol is not intentionally promoting this idea of marriage being a "zero sum game"; however, considering he built his book upon the framework of the PUA concepts of "alpha" and "beta" personalities I believe it is an unintended consequence.


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## salamander (Apr 2, 2013)

For me, H doesn't lose alpha rank when he asks. He just keeps me in my rational brain. A "reasonable request" is not sexy. It goes in the file of other "reasonable requests" H makes of me, like having his laundry done or the dinner made.

In fact, if anything, he gains some kind of alpha status when he asks, and I rebel. He's not the boss of me!

When he flatters me and comes on to me, then my brain is going, do I feel like sexy funtime?

It's the whole think vs. feel aspect, not alpha/beta.


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think there are situations where men and women think of themselves as being in a zero sum game. If one spouse is "getting something", the other spouse is "losing something". I think it's a terrible way to view a marriage overall as well as sex in marriage. I think some of this thinking is permeated by Athol Kay and his MMSLP and the info that people point to from Roissey. I understand that Athol is not intentionally promoting this idea of marriage being a "zero sum game"; however, considering he built his book upon the framework of the PUA concepts of "alpha" and "beta" personalities I believe it is an unintended consequence.


I don't see it that way, Athol never frames it as "getting your wife to give you sex", as if she is losing something. He frames it as, "getting your wife to want to have sex with you", which is a very different thing and benefits both partners. 

And many of the techniques in Kay's book are really things that most (not all) women probably would want their man to do anyway, even without sex being involved. Things like being more decisive, spontaneous, take-charge, firm with the kids when needed... these are "alpha" qualities but they are also something most women would like to see in their man.

I do agree that the usage of "alpha" and "beta" does give a false impression of a cheesy PUA type manual, in fact I almost didn't read it for that reason. But it's not like that at all, much of the book is really about a husband treating his wife BETTER, therefore making him more attractive to her.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

4thand11 said:


> Yeah I agree with Thound here... asking really doesn't serve much purpose IMO. Better off to just initiate and see what happens, that is more alpha and would probably have a better chance of working anyway (not that it always does).
> 
> I disagree that asking for sex doesn't lower your sex rank. I think it does. However the lowering is subconscious, it's not as if the wife will be actively thinking there is anything wrong with H asking. Rationally it is a reasonable request. However on a subconscious level it will make the man less attractive simply because rather than just taking what he wants (figure of speech - I am NOT advocating forcing yourself on anyone!), he is asking. That is simply not alpha behavior.
> 
> I think the default setting should be that if either partner initiates sex, the other will most likely respond. This makes both partners feel good about themselves, and they will know the occasional "not tonight honey" is genuine and not a sign of lack of attraction. Having to ask, for either partner, puts the other in a position of "granting/denying their request" which shifts the dynamic in an unhelpful way IMO.


I get that the best way to "ask" is to just outright initiate sex. It's the primary way I go for it tbh. But I'll occasionally ask. I still disagree with the idea that your "sex rank" diminishes automatically the moment you ask for sex from your wife regardless of how you do it. I think people get so hung up on the "alpha" and "beta" types that when it comes to the "game of sex", that the belief system draws the conclusion that vulnerability in anything is weakness. Since alpha means strength and desirability while beta means weakness and vulnerability, then asking for ANYTHING equates to showing a weakness. Using this logic, the "game of attraction" should expand beyond sex. That would mean that a man showing weakness in other facets of marriage should equate to an automatic downgrade in sex rank. 

I don't buy that. If it's OK to express your feelings to your spouse that she hurt you by not meeting another one of your needs, then it should be OK to express your feelings about not having your sexual needs met.


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Since alpha means strength and desirability while beta means weakness and vulnerability, then asking for ANYTHING equates to showing a weakness.


I don't think beta equates to weakness necessarily. Beta is the more helping, caring, "nice-guy" parts of the personality. Women like this also, but there has to be a balance. Women want a combination of alpha and beta. If the H is 100% one or the other, it is a problem.



> Using this logic, the "game of attraction" should expand beyond sex. That would mean that a man showing weakness in other facets of marriage should equate to an automatic downgrade in sex rank.


That's pretty much exactly what it means!



> I don't buy that. If it's OK to express your feelings to your spouse that she hurt you by not meeting another one of your needs, then it should be OK to express your feelings about not having your sexual needs met.


Well I think you have to be careful about "expressing your feelings" too much in general. Women like action over words, at least from their man. In most cases you can DO something to get your message across. Expressing your needs verbally too much can come across as complaining, and in my experience absolutely NOTHING turns off a woman quicker than a man complaining.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

I guess this is a thread about wives not giving husbands sex. Okaaaaaaaaaaaaay.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

janefw said:


> I guess this is a thread about wives not giving husbands sex. Okaaaaaaaaaaaaay.


I don't mean for it to morph into a rant thread about wives not having sex with their husbands. The intent is to discuss whether the notion that asking for sex - or men showing any type of weakness via sharing their feelings about things that have hurt them in general - causes them to lose their desirability in their wives' minds. I fully get that constant questions for sex and repeating comments about past slights will work like a slow poison to diminish attraction. However, my belief that doing this occasionally should not hurt the marriage at all - assuming the foundation is strong to begin with. I believe others believe that even asking for sex once - no matter how the question is delivered - will automatically diminish you in your wife's eyes.

I also asked in the OP if anyone felt that a wife asking for sex is equivalent or if it's a different situation all together. No one broached that subject yet. You're more than welcome to opine about that in order to make the thread more about sexuality in general as opposed to men pursuing women.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I don't mean for it to morph into a rant thread about wives not having sex with their husbands. The intent is to discuss whether the notion that asking for sex - or men showing any type of weakness via sharing their feelings about things that have hurt them in general - causes them to lose their desirability in their wives' minds. I fully get that constant questions for sex and repeating comments about past slights will work like a slow poison to diminish attraction. However, my belief that doing this occasionally should not hurt the marriage at all - assuming the foundation is strong to begin with. I believe others believe that even asking for sex once - no matter how the question is delivered - will automatically diminish you in your wife's eyes.
> 
> I also asked in the OP if anyone felt that a wife asking for sex is equivalent or if it's a different situation all together. No one broached that subject yet. You're more than welcome to opine about that in order to make the thread more about sexuality in general as opposed to men pursuing women.


Several women - myself included - made comments on page 1.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

janefw said:


> Several women - myself included - made comments on page 1.


I saw them and my OP and first posts were meant to be open for both the issue of men and women asking for sex. The primary reason I focused on the male to female dynamic was because this one is the one that has been most commonly talked about. I do not recall much of anything about women losing their sexual rank in the eyes of men when wives ask husbands for sex. I was merely inviting you to develop the women to men dynamic because I thought that was what you were referring to.

The purpose of this thread isn't to bash women for withholding sex. It's all about whether asking for it - by men or women - diminishes the person asking in the eyes of their SO.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I saw them and my OP and first posts were meant to be open for both the issue of men and women asking for sex. The primary reason I focused on the male to female dynamic was because this one is the one that has been most commonly talked about. I do not recall much of anything about women losing their sexual rank in the eyes of men when wives ask husbands for sex. I was merely inviting you to develop the women to men dynamic because I thought that was what you were referring to.
> 
> The purpose of this thread isn't to bash women for withholding sex. It's all about whether asking for it - by men or women - diminishes the person asking in the eyes of their SO.


Okay.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

IMO - not being a man or anything, but just guessing - it does diminish a wife in her husband's eyes when she has to ask for sex. Or that might be feeling demeaned by having to do it - made even worse when he answers the request by says he has a headache (or backache, or piles, or ... whatever). <eye roll> I certainly don't feel attractive at all, even though the glances of other men would tell me otherwise, because my h's rejection of me sexually means more to me than any other man's sexual desire. I wouldn't care if 50 men told me they wanted me. The one man I want to want me is my husband. To have to ask him for sex .. heartbreaking.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

janefw said:


> IMO - not being a man or anything, but just guessing - it does diminish a wife in her husband's eyes when she has to ask for sex. Or that might be feeling demeaned by having to do it - made even worse when he answers the request by says he has a headache (or backache, or piles, or ... whatever). <eye roll> I certainly don't feel attractive at all, even though the glances of other men would tell me otherwise, because my h's rejection of me sexually means more to me than any other man's sexual desire. I wouldn't care if 50 men told me they wanted me. The one man I want to want me is my husband. To have to ask him for sex .. heartbreaking.


I don't think a woman asking a man for sex would reduce her desirability - at least not in my book. My wife would never have to ask me for sex since I'm the primary initiator - almost exclusively. I think it's not hard for a strong marriage to falter from time to time where the husband or wife is not on top of their game. I can see life throwing enough challenges that either a sexual rut or a dry spell can develop. I think it happens all the time. If a man gets too engrossed in work or a hobby and his wife starts to get neglected in the bedroom, and the marriage is otherwise strong, I would WANT my wife to ask me for sex if I was the guy getting sidetracked in this example. Hopefully we get more guys to weight in, but my wife would NEVER lose her sex rank with me if she ever asked me for sex.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

But you're talking about occasional spells, I'm talking about long term. Like, always.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

What doesn't make sense to me, is why do spouses deny their other half sex?

They are in a loving marriage / relationship, right?

You love your other half emotionally, physically, sexually, right?

You want to be with them, right?


So why the sex torment and games?

Sounds like many shouldn't be married or in a relationship. You are to give of yourself for your other half. You are not your own anymore. You should want to do this, otherwise why waste their time?


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

Who knows why some partners don't want sex? It is just a reality, because we're all human I guess, and it never works out like x and y will always want each other equally. Making rules and quoting scripture - those things don't work. Trying to force the issue - doesn't work. Belaboring the LD spouse - doesn't work. 

The HD spouse just has to make that call - do I stay or do I go? If I stay, then I need to learn to deal with this and still love and respect my SO (I fail badly at this a lot of the time), because you can't stay in a marriage and make the other person feel horrible every day because they can't or won't live up to your desires.

I don't know. I have so many mixed feelings about this.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

janefw said:


> Who knows why some partners don't want sex? It is just a reality, because we're all human I guess, and it never works out like x and y will always want each other equally. Making rules and quoting scripture - those things don't work. Trying to force the issue - doesn't work. Belaboring the LD spouse - doesn't work.
> 
> The HD spouse just has to make that call - do I stay or do I go? If I stay, then I need to learn to deal with this and still love and respect my SO (I fail badly at this a lot of the time), because you can't stay in a marriage and make the other person feel horrible every day because they can't or won't live up to your desires.
> 
> I don't know. I have so many mixed feelings about this.


You say that like a sex starved male.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

treyvion said:


> You say that like a sex starved male.


There are millions of women like me. I can't say I have met them all, but I have met a lot of them. They want intimacy from their LD husbands just as much as husbands want intimacy from their LD wives. It's a fallacy that women aren't sexual.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

> The intent is to discuss whether the notion that asking for sex - or men showing any type of weakness via sharing their feelings about things that have hurt them in general - causes them to lose their desirability in their wives' minds.


I think that 'weakness' may be the wrong word. _Vulnerability _is attractive (imo). When I see that my husband is moved by something, or if he is touched by something that I have done, then he is desireable to me, yes. But when he is weak, no, that's not attractive. Maybe it's just a semantics issue.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

I would hope my H felt comfortable to do whatever he wanted to in order to have sex. I wouldn't want him to hide his feelings about anything because of what I *might* think of him. 

If he did beg or plead I would take that as a huge sign that I'm not respecting his needs.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm probably not a great subject for a case study. For the record, we have sex fairly often, but my wife rejects 100% of the time. It's reflexive by now. But often she'll turn around and initiate 2 minutes later. But the first reaction is ALWAYS to reject. So no, I no longer ask. I'll still try to initiate, but NEVER by asking for sex. I just start....then she rejects, then I close myself off to her, then she initiates, I resist, then give in and we do it. It's kind of a complicated dance.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm probably not a great subject for a case study. For the record, we have sex fairly often, but my wife rejects 100% of the time. It's reflexive by now. But often she'll turn around and initiate 2 minutes later. But the first reaction is ALWAYS to reject. So no, I no longer ask. I'll still try to initiate, but NEVER by asking for sex. I just start....then she rejects, then I close myself off to her, then she initiates, I resist, then give in and we do it. It's kind of a complicated dance.


Your slight resistance after she initiates after shutting you down, was that something you do intentionally, or is it just the natural reaction?

I'm glad I read your paragraph about that little dance, because a similar protocol may be the key in some of these situations.


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

janefw said:


> I think that 'weakness' may be the wrong word. _Vulnerability _is attractive (imo). When I see that my husband is moved by something, or if he is touched by something that I have done, then he is desireable to me, yes. But when he is weak, no, that's not attractive. Maybe it's just a semantics issue.


Not just semantics. They are completely different. Being emotional/caring/etc. is not weak. Always asking for sex, on the other hand...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Your slight resistance after she initiates after shutting you down, was that something you do intentionally, or is it just the natural reaction?
> 
> I'm glad I read your paragraph about that little dance, because a similar protocol may be the key in some of these situations.


It's my natural reaction. I have to get past the rejection even though I know it's coming. I also have to be convinced that she wants it and it isn't duty sex, so that convincing takes some work.


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

janefw said:


> I certainly don't feel attractive at all, even though the glances of other men would tell me otherwise, because my h's rejection of me sexually means more to me than any other man's sexual desire. I wouldn't care if 50 men told me they wanted me. The one man I want to want me is my husband. To have to ask him for sex .. heartbreaking.


Does your H know how attractive other men find you? Nothing like a little touch of jealousy to change a man's (or woman's) perspective. 

Sounds like he has gotten complacent because he knows he's got you. Compare that to when he was trying to "win" you back when you first met, I'm guessing he acted differently then.

I honestly think some of Athol Kay's advice could work for a woman also. Men and women are different obviously but, just like for a man, the only way to get more sex with your partner is to make him want to have sex with you. This can only be accomplished by your own actions (making yourself more sexually desirable to him), not by asking for sex...


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Lately my wife has been rejecting my advances. I'm used to her rejection of oral, because I love to give it and she has past abuse issues that are head trips for her so she's used to denying it. But lately even PIV or other intimacy has been off limits. And it's not PMS. I told her today I worry about the POSOM trying to contact her or something -- something's up! She's normally ready to outpace me in bed. 

I don't ask for it verbally, but give physical signs and touching long before we go to bed. And snuggle time in the evening is the best part of any of my days.


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## salamander (Apr 2, 2013)

Abuse issues have a funny way of coming up again, in a spiral rather than completing, like a circle. 

For me, it's like an upwelling inside of me that demands my attention. It's a nagging, constant emotional pain with spikes into true agony. Some new remembrance or epiphany about "what it all means" is demanding to be born, but born like "Alien".

Perhaps she could use a new round of therapy. Having a therapist is such a relief, it's a safe place where you can fully express all your stuff without hurting your SO. Maybe you'd like some, as well. Sometimes the partners of abuse survivors could use a little TLC, too.

It's really hard to want sex when you are reliving abuse.


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## salamander (Apr 2, 2013)

janefw said:


> Several women - myself included - made comments on page 1.


Yep, my point about rational / feeling instead of alpha / beta flew right under the radar. That's ok.


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

My partner asking for sex is a normal part of daily life for us. Usually it's a playful, flirty type ask, and normally leads to us doing something physical together.
I don't think anything of it, and will also ask him for sex if I happen to be into it.

I can't read his mind, and I don't expect him to be able to read mine. Asking for help meeting a need is just a big part of how we communicate.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's my natural reaction. I have to get past the rejection even though I know it's coming. I also have to be convinced that she wants it and it isn't duty sex, so that convincing takes some work.


Often times women aren't even thinking about sex until you bring it up. Then they think about it and get turned on. This happens to me quite often. This might be what's going on? I don't know your full story so forgive me if it's not accurate.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So tell me your thoughts. Do you believe that it's bad for a man to ask his wife for sex no matter what? Or do you make the distinction between asking for sex vs begging for sex? In my mind, begging is the real killer of sexual passion - not asking.


Asking is fine.Begging is sad

There's a difference in body language,tone of voice,and facial expression when begging for it than when asking.
"Can we please have sex now?? It has been over a week." ---begging with a whining tone,hunched shoulders,pleading expression.not unlike a child begging for a new toy or treat.

"mmm my sexy woman...wanna meet me in the bedroom in 5?"
---asking while casually nibbling his partner's neck,arms around her body with his body pressed against her firmly.tone is deep and lowered.facial expression better include a sexy half smile and bedroom eyes.exudes confidence and heat.

At least that's how it works in my house.My ex begged.My SO asks.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

janefw said:


> There are millions of women like me. I can't say I have met them all, but I have met a lot of them. They want intimacy from their LD husbands just as much as husbands want intimacy from their LD wives. It's a fallacy that women aren't sexual.


In 80% of sexless marriages it is the wives who are turning down their husbands. Although this in no way invalidates the feelings of women who are in the one out of five sexless marriages where their husbands don't want sex, it is typical to discuss things from the other perspective.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

I think asking for sex is never as good as flirting for sex. 

Asking makes the woman think about sex in a rational way, which activates areas of the brain that actually work against her sexual response. Unless the marriage already has a thriving sex life, this is guaranteed to be a poor way of eliciting a favourable response.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

I posted this in July 2012




Amplexor said:


> Any one that knows my story will recall that my wife and I were in a very bad place a few years back, hit bottom, damn near divorced but journeyed to a very long but successful recovery. We are very strong as a couple today, committed and loving.
> 
> However our sexual drives are still a mismatch. We deal with the problem better than we used to but had made little progress. I understand my wife is in menopause which has lowered her previously high-drive. With menopause has come an increase in weight lowering her self esteem. And her job is very stressful leaving her exhausted at the end of the day. I am very empathetic to her feelings on all three but there are two people in the marriage.
> 
> A few months ago we had "that talk" again and again it took a familiar path. Stress, weight, drive... With empathy and respect I told her I understood all those reasons but that quite frankly she has done nothing to try and address them and that I didn't see this ever improving much over where it was today. I told we were going to try a different path this time. "For the next 60 days, I want you to submit yourself to me when I want sexual intimacy." My wife is extremely strong willed and independent of soul. Her icie blues flashed for a moment then she took her stare off of me, thought about it and responded, "That's not an unreasonable request." Initially she found it a bit awkward ("knowing she had to") but we settled into a very good pattern. My wife does enjoy sex when we get started so she was not being "dutiful" during it. Keep in mind, I am in my mid 50s so I'm not swinging wood five times a day any more. 2 or 3 times a week is more than sufficient for me. It put us in a good rhythm that has continued on passed the initial period. She has also begun to work out regularly and watching her diet more closely. When we went though our R one of the things we did was rebuild the foundation of the relationship and two areas we became much more successful at then we had been previously were communication and empathy. Both had a strong part in helping us improve this area of the marriage.


Previously in our marriage we played a familiar dance. Ask - reject - withdraw. It lead to a feeling of rejection and disconnect. I have been a professional sales person for 30 years, I have no fear of rejection in business but it's quite different when it comes from your spouse especially in shared intimacy. It was IMO the issue that tipped the first domino that lead us down a disastrous path that nearly tanked the marriage. The problem was not the "asking" nor the "rejecting" it was the lack of understanding just how important sexual intimacy was to me and its impact on the relationship. We had struggled with HD/LD for years and nothing I tried seem to help long term. Asking for sex, getting angry and withdrawing, being the good "Husband" by picking up the chore load, romancing,... Everything we talk about here regularly. 

Until we had the above conversation and the ensuing understanding of why it was important to me and the health of the marriage it never really sank in. And I mean for us both. I have never since asked for sex from my wife. I initiate it. It may happen at the moment we hit the sheets or begin with teases as we prepare for dinner hours before we lie down. In the days since my wife has rejected my advances only once.

Sex was not the only issue in the decline in our marriage, there were lots of broken cogs. But together, fixing those cogs and increasing our sexual desire for each other were critical in getting the marriage healthy again. In short, communicate your needs in the marriage and empathize with each other.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

How I ask

"Do you want to just get f'd hard or would you prefer that I go down on you first?"


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> How I ask
> 
> "Do you want to just get f'd hard or would you prefer that I go down on you first?"


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Plan 9 from OS said*: This leads to my thoughts on sex. We're human. We have needs for intimacy. If we don't get those needs met - overtime we become needy.* If your marital situation is pretty strong and you normally have a healthy sex life, I don't believe that it's wrong or that it will diminish you in your wife's eyes if you make a comment about the lack of sex if you happen to be in a dry spell.*


 I so agree with you on this... 

Our past is a story of "missing it" with each other...... in our case, the *asking* would have been better than being *passive*.. though being overtly flirtatious/ making it hard to resist his charms - this would have been THE TICKET - the superior way !

I'm going to say my husband had a lot to work with - with me...but he was just too quiet of a lover...he bought into the belief -you don't ask... this is How he felt... if I didn't give some cue/ sign, a hint of receptiveness to an advance (I am talking in the smallest non verbal way)....he wouldn't go any further...he had to FEEL that I wanted him too (at the start) or it would be "hollow" for him..... It's never just a release to him...it is always a shared emotional experience... 

I talked to him yesterday about this... and boy was the 2 of us clueless ... .he didn't realize women are generally like Crock Pots...need warmed up ....(since when I did want it -I really showed it ).... and I didn't realize how men felt - needing it so much MORE than us (in those early years anyway)... to the point of being "tormented". 

Then he had all the men at work whining all women hate sex... so that wasn't helping either..

I do remember ONE MORNING he asked me for a "hand Job"...1 time in 19 yrs...

Looking back this makes me  because obviously I was not showing him enough physical attention...he told me yrs ago how very HARD that was to ask me.. he hated doing it. 

Where my husband went wrong was ....He should have come on to me all hot & heavy, making it hard to resist, flirting, teasing me...being more Overtly Playful.....

LIke this post here by Salamander ... NOW THIS is the way to BE !! 



salamander said:


> My H knows how to sweet talk me. I am a sucker for flattery. He'll just start talking about how much he loves and lusts me. He gives me that sexy look, and tells me how much he loves my body. I'm a wife who loves to be groped, though. I've read some here don't. When he looks at me like that and says those things, I'm in his arms with his hands all over me.





> I initiate a lot, mostly by flashing him or pouncing on him.


 These posts sound more like ME over my husband.....but he's gotten better - since we've opened the sex dialog  

I hung myself yrs ago by telling him he was different, not a big flirt like other men, so he felt I didn't like that... which was another thing that played against us. Live & learn... We must sound awfully boring.. .but really we were very happy with our sex life -when we did engage, it was Heaven...I never complained.... he just wanted MORE of it .. 





> Let's be honest. When you broach a subject with your spouse, the declarative sentences you verbalize are in reality questions about meeting your needs. Stating in a confident voice "We need a more active sex life and I expect it to start today" is in reality *"Will you have sex with me more often?".* Most people aren't stupid and can see a request - no matter how "alpha" you make the request.


 My husband tip toed around this issue in our past... the ONLY time he ever tried to talk to me, he never used the word ...he told me he'd like to HOLD ME MORE AT NIGHT... I am a very light sleeper, and out of my stupidity , took what he said ALL WRONG...feeling I wouldn't be able to fall asleep with his arms around me - he wasn't talking about sleep at all ! He really needed to be more Direct..



> *Plan 9 from OS said*: I get that the best way to "ask" is to just outright initiate sex. It's the primary way I go for it tbh. But I'll occasionally ask. I still disagree with the idea that your "sex rank" diminishes automatically the moment you ask for sex from your wife regardless of how you do it. I think people get so hung up on the "alpha" and "beta" types that when it comes to the "game of sex", that the belief system draws the conclusion that vulnerability in anything is weakness. Since alpha means strength and desirability while beta means weakness and vulnerability, then asking for ANYTHING equates to showing a weakness. Using this logic, the "game of attraction" should expand beyond sex. That would mean that a man showing weakness in other facets of marriage should equate to an automatic downgrade in sex rank.
> 
> I don't buy that. If it's OK to express your feelings to your spouse that she hurt you by not meeting another one of your needs, then it should be OK to express your feelings about not having your sexual needs met.


 Vulnerability in a man does not lower his sex rank with me....I love a sentimental man who can show his deep feelings ....It's funny, when I got more VULNERABLE with him sexually... showing more NEED...this is what allowed him to open up more with me... what a blessing...

When he couldn't keep up, I was starting to feel I have to be *a BURDEN* to him...never forget when I told him I was feeling this way ... loved his response..."Sex a burden, are you crazy woman?" ( I suppose it's different from the other side though.) 




> *MSP said* : *I think asking for sex is never as good as flirting for sex. *
> 
> Asking makes the woman think about sex in a rational way, which activates areas of the brain that actually work against her sexual response. Unless the marriage already has a thriving sex life, this is guaranteed to be a poor way of eliciting a favourable response.


 So very true!! Flirting, being playful, teasing, Upping the erotic...doing our homework, knowing what turns our lovers on and GOING FOR IT .... I went out of my way to learn what trips my husbands triggers -when my drive was higher than his... and 99 % of the time, I got what I was after and he was loving it too. I didn't ask.. I told him what I was going to do to him... yeah, he was loving that...


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with asking your wife for sex. I do all the time. Its not in a begging way or nothing like that. I never do the passive aggressive pout thing either. In all honesty I'm usually pretty crass about it. I'll send a playful/dirty text message during the day. Or we'll be watching T.V. and I'll say something like "You trying to get naked". I don't understand why people who are married need to play mind games and guess if tonight's the night. If you want some booty ask for some booty!!!! I guess it depends on who you marry. 

_Tangent_
I know that an LD woman would probably think this is a miserable life for my wife, that my wife is just an object. But the reality is she is just as perverted as I am. 

I guess I feel bad for a lot of guys that jump through never ending hoops for below average sex. I can't help but think that their spouses just don't like sex anymore and never have any intention of returning to normal. Why not be honest and say that instead of raising the bar knowing that you don't want to put out anyway. At least this way they can decide if it's acceptable to them or not.


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## olwhatsisname (Dec 5, 2012)

some think clean clothes,and food covers it.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

4thand11 said:


> Does your H know how attractive other men find you? Nothing like a little touch of jealousy to change a man's (or woman's) perspective.
> 
> Sounds like he has gotten complacent because he knows he's got you. Compare that to when he was trying to "win" you back when you first met, I'm guessing he acted differently then.
> 
> I honestly think some of Athol Kay's advice could work for a woman also. Men and women are different obviously but, just like for a man, the only way to get more sex with your partner is to make him want to have sex with you. This can only be accomplished by your own actions (*making yourself more sexually desirable to him*), not by asking for sex...


Already stated on others posts - the lingerie, the whole deal etc etc has been done to death. I can't make myself 18 again - which is probably his main age of preference. Anything else, I have already done.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

4thand11 said:


> I don't think beta equates to weakness necessarily. Beta is the more helping, caring, "nice-guy" parts of the personality. Women like this also, but there has to be a balance. Women want a combination of alpha and beta. If the H is 100% one or the other, it is a problem.
> 
> 
> Expressing your needs verbally too much can come across as complaining, and in my experience absolutely NOTHING turns off a woman quicker than a man complaining.


AMEN to BOTH of these statements! 

My exb/f used complain about his (deceased) wife not being interested in sex. He also told me that she used to tell him that he WHINED. 

Since we had been together for 4 years, I HEARD how often he whined, and it was several times a day EVERY SINGLE FRIGGIN' DAY. And the WORST part is that he was whining to ME, instead of whining to the party who was causing his 'distress'. It's like he was constantly making himself out to be a 'victim' of some sort, even though he had REASONABLE alternatives to solve his 'problem'. 

Whining is NOT sexy. In fact, it's a HUGE turn-off! 

Vega


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

MSP said:


> I think asking for sex is never as good as flirting for sex.


Unless you "ask" in a flirtatious way. My girl will ask "baby, can I please have you c0ck tonight?" or I will say something like "mmm, I need that sweet ass tonight babe".... 

I guess it's all in how you ask, the words you use, your body language, etc. I think it works when you and your partner are on the same sexual plane.

My ex and I were not compatible sexually...she was LD I was HD or at least higher-then-her sex drive, she was very vanilla, etc., so all attempts at "gettin' some" took WORK, which really just brings you down after years and years. You think "she should want it too" or "why am I reduced to asking for sex"....no guy wants this.


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## ASummersDay (Mar 4, 2013)

My husband hasn't ever had to ask for sex. I'm almost always ready to go. He seduces me non-verbally when he wants it and I don't withhold it. I don't think I ever would unless I was in a full-body cast or something. I love sex too much to say no.

Now, during foreplay, I occasionally like to push him to the point where he flat-out demands it because his hormones are going nuts. In that scenario, I definitely don't see him as weak because it's the exact reaction I'm hoping to achieve. When he gets to that point, I know the sex will be fantastic.

As far as him begging for it if I wasn't in the mood, if I imagine this scenario, I think I would find it a huge turnoff. Because I'd only refuse to have sex if there was a legitimate reason. So if he didn't respect that, it would annoy me.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

It's all in the way things are asked for.

When he says "baby let's go to bed" I am there faster than he is. If he asks in his sexy voice "baby I would love you to go down on me" then I am right in there.

If here were to ever say "please have sex with me" I would look at him blankly.

We don't ask for sex as such, it is simple here as sex is always on the agenda and we are pretty good at reading each other without the need for words.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Why would it be a cardinal sin if she is your wife? Sex is a big part of a marriage, you should be able to ask, be asked and receive and give.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Holland said:


> It's all in the way things are asked for.
> 
> When he says "baby let's go to bed" I am there faster than he is. If he asks in his sexy voice "baby I would love you to go down on me" then I am right in there.
> 
> ...


Good for you. This is how it works for normal married couples. However if a man with a LD wife were to say the same things its likely she would be offended and maybe even think he is vulgar. They literally see sex as a violation of their body. It really doesn't matter how you ask when you have a LD spouse. You'll get no for answer.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't see people ask for sex as an initiation
"Baby, can we have sex?" Erm, no thanks

It's just a turn off in the ears! Somethings you just don't say or do because it'll turn off your spouse, you don't fart in her face or under the sheets and then try to initiate sex for instance - same way you shouldn't ask for sex. 

There are so many other WAY BETTER avenues to get her in the mood, and that's the thing: Asking for sex, how is that supposed to get someone in the mood? Why not flirt, touch, tease, get her body ready for you and you wouldn't have to ask, in fact if you do the tease right she will beg FOR you to give her a release!


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Really???!!! I guess I been doing it wrong then... I told big guy I want hot sex tonight, he said your on! - Gotta take his little help me up pill ;-)

Personally I think it is part of life...it depends on your relationship and how open you two are. Big guy and I are pretty open about our needs and we voice them freely.....empty nesters (kids all grown).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

ginger-snap said:


> I wish my husband would ask for it. Currently, the frequency of our sex life rests solely upon my shoulders.


I gave up asking for it - she was giving it up to someone else there for a while. So same old same old. Couldn't get laid in a brothel currently


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> It's just a turn off in the ears! Somethings you just don't say or do because it'll turn off your spouse, you don't fart in her face or under the sheets and then try to initiate sex for instance - same way you shouldn't ask for sex.


Hmmmmm....I have actually farted pretty loud in the morning under the sheets and then initiated sex. I guess my wife and I don't have any hang ups anymore about bodily functions. Yep, we're disgusting!!!!


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

janefw said:


> Already stated on others posts - the lingerie, the whole deal etc etc has been done to death. I can't make myself 18 again - which is probably his main age of preference. Anything else, I have already done.


Agreed. To me the whole make yourself more desireable thing is a load of sh!t. Do I have to be perfect for you to want me? Pull in 6-7 figures and look like an extra from "300"? 

If thats the case, that just naturally makes me feel like "screw you" "Go find your perfect guy and be happy" And if I do get to the financial and/or physical level that is "good enough" for you, then maybe you're not good enough for me now, and turn about is fair play.

Not really how I feel about my wife, but that defensive part of me kicks in when I read that make yourself more attractive stuff. Not saying people can just become 400lb behemouths but at times it comes off as an excuse to be shallow.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Middle of Everything said:


> Agreed. To me the whole make yourself more desireable thing is a load of sh!t. Do I have to be perfect for you to want me? Pull in 6-7 figures and look like an extra from "300"?


[LOL]
Well. I used to think the same way - but even with someone who LOVES you, really LOVES you - their hotness factor and attraction for you will be raised by raising your look and quality of life. This is in most people. So initially your spouse may have a 50% physical attraction for you, and instituting the tight body physique and better dress and more dollars will raise this, maybe more than some superficial person outside of your relationship even.
[/LOL]



Middle of Everything said:


> If thats the case, that just naturally makes me feel like "screw you" "Go find your perfect guy and be happy" And if I do get to the financial and/or physical level that is "good enough" for you, then maybe you're not good enough for me now, and turn about is fair play.
> 
> Not really how I feel about my wife, but that defensive part of me kicks in when I read that make yourself more attractive stuff. Not saying people can just become 400lb behemouths but at times it comes off as an excuse to be shallow.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

treyvion said:


> [LOL]
> Well. I used to think the same way - but even with someone who LOVES you, really LOVES you - their hotness factor and attraction for you will be raised by raising your look and quality of life. This is in most people. So initially your spouse may have a 50% physical attraction for you, and instituting the tight body physique and better dress and more dollars will raise this, maybe more than some superficial person outside of your relationship even.
> [/LOL]


Agreed. But how do you avoid a tit for tat mentality (now your not "hot" enough for me) and/or resentment from thinking "I had to be this much better in what ever way(s) to be attractive to you?"


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Middle of Everything said:


> Agreed. To me the whole make yourself more desireable thing is a load of sh!t. Do I have to be perfect for you to want me? Pull in 6-7 figures and look like an extra from "300"?
> 
> If thats the case, that just naturally makes me feel like "screw you" "Go find your perfect guy and be happy" And if I do get to the financial and/or physical level that is "good enough" for you, then maybe you're not good enough for me now, and turn about is fair play.
> 
> Not really how I feel about my wife, but that defensive part of me kicks in when I read that make yourself more attractive stuff. Not saying people can just become 400lb behemouths but at times it comes off as an excuse to be shallow.


Yeah but it's not about looks or money or comparing yourself to others.

Making yourself more attractive can be a lot more about how you act and how you treat your partner, than just working out and having 6-pack abs.

For example I never realized how much my indecisiveness was a subtle turnoff to my wife. Being decisive is an alpha quality and most women are attracted to it. Same with complaining... major turn off to women so I've consciously started doing it less. Makes me more attractive to my wife... she doesn't have to listen to me complain and I get more sex, a win-win.

It can't hurt to try and improve physical appearance also but not the most important part imo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Middle of Everything said:


> Agreed. But how do you avoid a tit for tat mentality (now your not "hot" enough for me) and/or resentment from thinking "I had to be this much better in what ever way(s) to be attractive to you?"


I don't know. Hopefully you can look at it as you shouldve been taking better care of yourself and you finally did it for yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Middle of Everything said:


> Agreed. But how do you avoid a tit for tat mentality (now your not "hot" enough for me) and/or resentment from thinking "I had to be this much better in what ever way(s) to be attractive to you?"


Well if one partner suddenly gets much hotter, the other will have to keep up or risk being left behind. Works out fine if both are on the same level, but otherwise its a problem.

You see it all the time when actors ditch their wives once they get famous. His sex rank went up (got famous) and hers stayed the same. Before he got famous she may have even been considered by some to be "too good-looking" for him back when he was a nobody - but not anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I agree 100% with Janefw. Speaking from my point of view... I stopped asking for sex after being turned down for 5 months. I don't feel like I have a HD just a normal one. Sure as hell hurts to b turned down and not wanted. Guess I have never used sex as at playing card in the marriage like my DH does. :banghead::banghead::wtf::banghead::banghead:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Tomara said:


> I agree 100% with Janefw. Speaking from my point of view... I stopped asking for sex after being turned down for 5 months. I don't feel like I have a HD just a normal one. Sure as hell hurts to b turned down and not wanted. Guess I have never used sex as at playing card in the marriage like my DH does. :banghead::banghead::wtf::banghead::banghead:


It's amazing how this "asking for sex", rejection can take so much out of you. It's a psychological thing, but you feel like it "reduces" and "shrinks" your sexual persona.

When I was in an abundance of sex, one or two rejections was not a big deal, because the huge wheels of abundant sex could absorb it.

However with a lack of sex or no sex, a sexual rejection is a seriously hurtful thing. I know those of you who comment on this know exactly what I'm saying.

So when you are in a sexless or near sexless position "asking for sex", should be considered one of the ten sins, because normally it WILL take you a step or two backwards.. We need to make a list.


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## Unaware (Jan 7, 2013)

I think it's HOT when my man comes up behind me and whispers in my ear what he would like to do to me


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I don't mean for it to morph into a rant thread about wives not having sex with their husbands. The intent is to discuss whether the notion that asking for sex - or men showing any type of weakness via sharing their feelings about things that have hurt them in general - causes them to lose their desirability in their wives' minds. I fully get that constant questions for sex and repeating comments about past slights will work like a slow poison to diminish attraction. However, my belief that doing this occasionally should not hurt the marriage at all - assuming the foundation is strong to begin with. I believe others believe that even asking for sex once - no matter how the question is delivered - will automatically diminish you in your wife's eyes.
> 
> I also asked in the OP if anyone felt that a wife asking for sex is equivalent or if it's a different situation all together. No one broached that subject yet. You're more than welcome to opine about that in order to make the thread more about sexuality in general as opposed to men pursuing women.


I've only read to this post but had to comment: I think it's important that we leave the lines for communication open between us and our spouse. Sure, the idea of being a nag isn't a pleasant one. The idea of begging doesn't really do much for self-esteem, but at the same time, if we worry too much about whether or not we're nagging, or whether or not we're begging, we could, inadvertently, close off our lines of communication. 

So, in my opinion, it's not _what_ is said or asked, it's _how_ it's said and asked. My husband stated to me about ten-eleven months ago that he wasn't satisfied with out sexual frequency. I was on BC pills at the time, and they had massively effected my drive. But still, by calmly and rationally stating his dissatisfaction in a way that wasn't judgmental, I heard what he said and I made changes. He had to remind me a few times, but because of how he said it, I never once felt nagged or that he begged for sex, so his attraction didn't fall. In fact it increased.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I also think there is a difference between a husband or wife flat out flirting by saying things that either state, ask or suggest that they want to have sex in a sexy way. I melt when my husband does those things. Again, it's _how_ things are said.


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