# Is marriage really GODS idea?



## cb45

When one looks throughout history, beginning and ending w/ of course, the Bible, 
one can only wonder is this really what GOD intended for marr'd life on earth?

I mean, look at the divorce rate, look at the poor relations
of those who still claim to be marr'd etc. Who's really marr'd..... 
25% or less of the marr'd population?

I know there may be many takes on this subject some
predictable some not, but I look forward to any deep 
thinkers here, b4 i weigh in, or get called out/upon to respond.


peace-------------------:smthumbup:----------------cb45


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## DRAGON_JO

cb45 said:


> When one looks throughout history, beginning and ending w/ of course, the Bible,
> one can only wonder is this really what GOD intended for marr'd life on earth?
> 
> I mean, look at the divorce rate, look at the poor relations
> of those who still claim to be marr'd etc. Who's really marr'd.....
> 25% or less of the marr'd population?
> 
> I know there may be many takes on this subject some
> predictable some not, but I look forward to any deep
> thinkers here, b4 i weigh in, or get called out/upon to respond.
> 
> 
> peace-------------------:smthumbup:----------------cb45


accurate info.. E.G in third world the family is sacred. 
so evry one is looking for the relation of marraige .



Incidentally I am from the Middle East

best regards


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## cherrypie18

Well throughout history women were taught to obey the men in their lives: father, brother and eventually husband. And men took advantage of the situation and decided that since women are supposed to obey them, they might as well control everything (IMO lol) 
If we lived by Bible rules, there obviously wouldn't be as much divorce today.

Plus I think all of this was made up by _men_ to be able to control everything and everyone, including women. Religion does nothing but harm.

And *DRAGON_JO*

In the 3rd world marriage is "sacred" because women are taught that it's ok if her husband beats her, abuses and controls her. Even if it's not ok she's not supposed to leave him because she will ruin her family's reputation and her parents will disown her if she goes back home. Besides that many aren't allowed to work (by their husbands) therefore they can't support themselves financially if they leave. 
If they had the courage the women in developed countries had, if the government actually supported women, the divorce rate in the 3rd world countries would be much higher.


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## TNgirl232

The way our minister put it during pre-maritial counseling was "if God has called you together into this marriage, then there is nothing that He will put before you that you can not make it through together." Basically - if you feel God called you into marriage with a specific person, then you can't be broken apart by life. If he didn't and you married the wrong person, then you won't be able to. I actually like this idea. So far, so good


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## Blanca

the way i always viewed marriage from a biblical perspective is that once you have kids, you are married. its not the priest confirming it. when god says that he will bring a couple together to be one i think its talking about children. when a couple has children they are quite literally "one". I think all the priests and the vows and all of the hype is a mix up and a modern take on it all. once you have kids and become "one" you're married, biblically speaking. and there's no way to divorce from that. divorce is a modern thing.


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## cherrypie18

Blanca said:


> the way i always viewed marriage from a biblical perspective is that once you have kids, you are married. its not the priest confirming it. when god says that he will bring a couple together to be one i think its talking about children. when a couple has children they are quite literally "one". I think all the priests and the vows and all of the hype is a mix up and a modern take on it all. once you have kids and become "one" you're married, biblically speaking. and there's no way to divorce from that. divorce is a modern thing.


I always thought being one was having sex. In a lot of societies especially in those where marriage is more "sacred" you're married to the person you have sex with. That is why the Bible preaches against sex with more than 1 person.

The Bible also talks about divorce, and remarrying. 

Matthew 5:32
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Romans 7:2,3 - "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man."


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## Blanca

cherrypie18 said:


> I always thought being one was having sex.


I used to think that, too. but then i kept getting stuck on the phrase "one flesh." after i really thought about it i realized you're not one flesh with your spouse when you have sex. infact, biologically speaking the vagina is not even considered inside a women; its still considered an exterior cavity. sex is a temporary joining, but you are separate literally the whole time. the only time you quite literally become one flesh is when you have a child. its rather fascinating since the recombination of dna from the parents was not even known back then. many people thought it had to do with crops- but in any case i realized that no one is "one" during sex. then i started to wonder what it could mean to be one flesh and it was so obvious- kids of course. the only time you become one flesh with a person is when you combine your dna with theirs and become one person. amazing. that is why marriage can quite literally only be between a man and a women. but that is just my interpretation of the biblical perspective. 

which law are those passages referring to? the law of the land or gods law? i dont know the bible that well. i dont know it well enough to get in a real theological debate about it. its just my general opinion.


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## TNgirl232

Blanca - Your theory kind of sucks if you are an infertile couple.


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## Blanca

my interpretation probably sucks for many people. but its just a biblical perspective. i dont personally think that is what marriage is.


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## cherrypie18

Blanca your theory makes sense in the 21st century but back then they didn't know about DNA and such, and being one most possible meant the connection during sex. I always think of it like a plug and an outlet lol when you combine the 2 they're like 1  gotta connect to make it work!


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## SimplyAmorous

Here are a few links about the history of Marraige : 

History of Marriage


Marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Marriage, a History | Psychology Today


I used to be a Bible Believer, but no longer feel it was ALL inspired by God, I do feel man invented this, but also their was Heavenly wisdom in the institution of it. Monogomy is simply Good for Society as a whole, for stability, A blessing for raising families, financially & emotionally speaking -IF you find the right partner to make it work. 

Marraige should not feel like "work" though. It should, for the most part, be a Joy and flow naturally. Of coarse there are bumps in the road, and at times you may question WHY did I marry him or [email protected]#$% Those might be your BAD days, we all have them -but ultimately your partner should feel like your other half, what completes you. 

I love being Married.


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## Blanca

cherrypie18 said:


> Blanca your theory makes sense in the 21st century but back then they didn't know about DNA and such, and being one most possible meant the connection during sex. I always think of it like a plug and an outlet lol when you combine the 2 they're like 1  gotta connect to make it work!


true, they didnt know about DNA. but if it was "really" god talking then he probably knows even if the person writing it wasnt entirely clued in. haha.

have you ever noticed that god (or whoever wrote that part of the bible) says that marriage IS between a man and a women. not that it should be, not that its a commandment, not 'thou shalt not marry so-and-so', but that marriage simply is that union. Since god defines what marriage is, its impossible for marriage to be anything other then the joining of two flesh into one by a man and a women. it is another reason i decided it had to mean a child. many people can "connect," but according to god only a man and a women can marry. Ive always found that interesting.


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## cb45

i originally posed this thread question to examine whether it was man or God that created the institution of marriage. keyword....institution.

i know God united the man & woman via procreation standards etc., but, where was the first marriage ceremony?


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## 827Aug

Blanca said:


> I used to think that, too. but then i kept getting stuck on the phrase "one flesh."


It has symbolic meaning. I don't see it referring to the offspring which results.



cb45 said:


> i originally posed this thread question to examine whether it was man or God that created the institution of marriage. keyword....institution.
> 
> i know God united the man & woman via procreation standards etc., but, where was the first marriage ceremony?


Now that you phrased the question in this manner.... I see marriage as a man-made institution. But over the years religion has been used as tool to control people. And the Bible has had many interpretations.

I'm currently reading a book by Caroline Myss titled "Sacred Contracts". The author is an intuitive healer with an advanced degree in theology. It is really thought provoking material when we begin looking at the relationships we enter into here on Earth.


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## lil miss wifey

well well well hmm well all i know so far is that god made man and woman to be "one" and to me marriage is a sign saying that these two people has joined to be 2gether as "one" before him,
i think that it was made by god not man, man just came and glamoured it up and put into people heads 1 to control ur wife and 2 when the going gets rough leave "divorce" and some people who got divorce got married for the wrong reasons in the first place, one sentence could be view a million different ways and men can view things from the bible in many different ways and work to suite themselves anyway thats my take on it im not 1 million yrs old im still in the learning process of marriage on life on the whole lol , all i know is that me and my husband is one and happy being one lol


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## lil miss wifey

and yes i think marriage is God's idea, for us to be faithful, understanding, honest u know the good stuff and also encouraging each other, making it work, a lot of people now is taking it for a game we all know that, some people are getting married to own the next person to control them which leads to the abusive part and some are getting married for what the other person has eg. money etc and then they get a divorce, so marriage by man is real crappy


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## unbelievable

From my understanding of the Old Testament, Adam had to ask for a wife, so I guess it was his idea. You notice God made Adam a wife but didn't make himself one.


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## TeaLeaves4

cherrypie18 said:


> I always thought being one was having sex. In a lot of societies especially in those where marriage is more "sacred" you're married to the person you have sex with. That is why the Bible preaches against sex with more than 1 person.
> 
> The Bible also talks about divorce, and remarrying.
> 
> Matthew 5:32
> But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
> 
> Romans 7:2,3 - "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man."


The above verses reflect the customs of the time in which they were written. The sexuality of women was strictly regulated so that paternity of children could be guaranteed. She was also controlled so that any wealth, property, or family advantage she brought to her husband's family stayed with his family. Men, on the other hand, could have dalliances (especially the wealthy) and it was no problem.

Strange how the Bible ignores the moral responsibilities of the man, and only addressed the woman. Probably because the Bible was written by man.


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## cherrypie18

TeaLeaves4 said:


> Strange how the Bible ignores the moral responsibilities of the man, and only addressed the woman. Probably because the Bible was written by man.


Of course it was. It was also rewritten many many times by priests to most probably suit them and their needs/wants in order to gain control over people. A lot of things have probably been crossed out as well. 

Also, in the old days they did not really write it all down at first but it went around like urban legends, or just stories and who doesn't know what when people repeat something? They either add or subtract words... Take gossip for instance. It starts as an x and ends as a y.

I DO NOT trust or like priests. Actually I've only met one priest who I really liked, he was 80 and seemed really sincere. All the others? Not even close to being honest or "holy".


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## cherrypie18

I also think the Pope is the only person who has access to the real story behind the bible or the actual original scripts. 

Wasn't it priests who killed Jesus? Even today a lot of people are killed when they speak the truth, professors get fired from universities and teachers from schools. 

I think Jesus was trying to send us a really important message, and whatever is written in the bible should not be taken word for word. There's a deeper meaning behind it all. I think his mission was to enlighten us, and let us know that we are capable of everything he was. We control ourselves physically and mentally and spiritually and we are our own god in a sense. There is a greater power out there, but we are just as powerful. We've turned into dormant volcanoes who have no idea that we were capable of in the past. Just IMO from reading and watching a lot of different stuff about god the bible and Jesus.


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## greenpearl

During Bible time, men were taught to respect and provide for women since they are physically stronger. Manual work needed men! Women couldn't do much to support themselves, they had to be dependent on men. Women were taught to be respectful and submissive towards them. Adulterers would be stoned to death, so I don't think there was much fornication going on. Families were more like families. Sons were taught to be nice to their old parents, if they were not, they would be stoned to death, too. 

Now, a lot of things have changed. People want their human rights. People want their freedom. Women want equality. Children want rights instead of spanking. In many ways, the society has become very civil, but in many ways, people are going to the extreme on the other side. Good or bad, who knows? 

I don't believe in God, so I don't know if it is GOD's idea or just human nature. Very often I am pondering. Countries are far way from each other, in history it was so difficult for people to travel from one place to the other, but look at human history, there were similarities in many areas, how come? Did God really do something to make everything happen at the same time? 

I respect Bible wisdom!!! For people who are not interested in religion, it is still a good thing to read the Bible. If we try to follow Bible commandments, we will tend to have a much more peaceful life!!! Read it, study it, and apply it!!! It is only good for us!!! Ignore the imperfection of human, just learn to help ourselves to live a better life!!!


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## gfl

mommy22 said:


> In the garden, God performed it. The vows we now take are based on the commandments--to love, forsaking all others, etc.. We now have pastors and ministers to perform the ceremony as ordained by God. Just because we have ministers performing the ceremony, it doesn't mean it's a man-made institution. It was God's design from the beginning. The ceremony is both an actual vow under God which joins the couple but also a symbol for all witnesses somewhat akin to baptism. Just as baptism shows the covenant relationship between God and man, a ceremony displays the God ordained covenant between husband and wife.


Mommy 2's statements are about the only ones worth reading on this entire post absolutely amazes me people’s comments when they literally know nothing in Gods word or our basis of being…the bible is rich in scripture on marriage and how a woman and a man is supposed to be together treating women as Christ treated the church…if more husbands followed Gods’ plan on earth women would be held as nothing less as infinite buety…someone they would be willing to truly die for without regard… it would seem to be very irresponsible and foolish to continue commenting without at least gaining a tiny bit of knowledge and wisdom…In the new testament alone Jesus commented on how it was better to marry then to burn with passion as well as people should not divorce for foolish reasons as they where doing that’s why those guidelines where set if, they truly wanted to do that and if only that if the other party could not forgive their spouse and not work through it…this was based on the law of the old testament because he was reiterating what Moses had said because of the motivation of the people asking the question as like our times they just wanted a divorce for selfish reasons…when Jesus came we where freed from old testament laws of sin if we followed/ believed in him…make no mistake the USA was found on biblical principles just look at a dollar bill …Yes marriage is certainly a part of Gods plan for us christians…


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## unbelievable

Considering that monogamous unions predate any particular religion or anyone's current concept of God, these unions must have been a logical societal necessity. Kids are born, someone needs to raise them and they can't raise kids and hunt for Mammoths at the same time. The biggest and strongest male of the tribe can't be the only one mating or there will eventually be funny looking kids. Warriors and hunters can't be battling to the death with each other every time they want to have sex with a woman. The natural solution was for men and women to pair up. Whether their idea of "god" was a being on a cloud, the sun, a tree, a statue, a human being, or the collective spirits of the dead, the concept was necessary for survival.


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## TeaLeaves4

greenpearl said:


> During Bible time, men were taught to respect and provide for women since they are physically stronger. Manual work needed men! Women couldn't do much to support themselves, they had to be dependent on men. Women were taught to be respectful and submissive towards them.


Greenpearl, this is not accurate. There has always been a division of labor, and women throughout history have always done their share of the work that needed to be done and more! For example, while the men hunted, the women foraged and gathered food. They farmed, ground wheat, made bread, did the laundry, tended children, cured leather, etc. The list goes on. Women needed the men, but the men needed the women's labor just as much.


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## greenpearl

TeaLeaves4 said:


> Greenpearl, this is not accurate. There has always been a division of labor, and women throughout history have always done their share of the work that needed to be done and more! For example, while the men hunted, the women foraged and gathered food. They farmed, ground wheat, made bread, did the laundry, tended children, cured leather, etc. The list goes on. Women needed the men, but the men needed the women's labor just as much.


You are right. They had to be dependent on each other. 

Could a woman live without a man at that time? Ruth's husband died, she went home with her mother-in-law Naomi. She had to find a man to get married again. I guess they could survive themselves by gathering what left in the field, but by marrying Boaz their life became much better. Nowadays a woman can make more money than a man. A woman can easily support herself. It is so common. That's why I think women have changed a lot. 

This thread makes me want to read the Bible again.


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## greenpearl

unbelievable said:


> Considering that monogamous unions predate any particular religion or anyone's current concept of God, these unions must have been a logical societal necessity. Kids are born, someone needs to raise them and they can't raise kids and hunt for Mammoths at the same time. The biggest and strongest male of the tribe can't be the only one mating or there will eventually be funny looking kids. _Warriors and hunters can't be battling to the death with each other every time they want to have sex with a woman._ The natural solution was for men and women to pair up. Whether their idea of "god" was a being on a cloud, the sun, a tree, a statue, a human being, or the collective spirits of the dead, the concept was necessary for survival.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## cb45

The biggest and strongest male of the tribe can't be the only one mating or there will eventually be funny looking kids.----unbelievable

its called "mongoloidism":nono: No rel'shp to the Mongols and Ghengis Khan, tho' he interestingly had sired so many offspring via his many wives & concubines, that even today some of his DNA imprint runs thru 5-10% of the population of Asia alone.
(which includes Taiwanese...hint hint:rofl

No matter , we have our dueling banjo players of the backwoods of GA as well as our cajun swamp ppl too.

So there's :rofl: enuff for everyone, i guess.

kinda sad/sick tho'.


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## whynot

Marriage is an institution developed by man. Its an extension of Adam and Eve being developed and placed with one another... humans make God's laws so legalistic to make sense of and define them. We really dont need marital ceremonies other than to solidify the finances and legalities. I do believe that God calls 2 people together... but that is where it ends and begins... if you are called to be together then that is who you remain with until death.

I think Blanca may be onto something with the idea of DNA...one flesh. It makes perfect sense that a book as poetic as the Bible use that analogy to descibe something not yet fully scientifically understood... but very observable in that the child has characteristics of each biological parent.


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## cb45

oops, make that mongolism....lol.


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## unbelievable

Marriage is an institutional necessity, whether religiously or civilly implemented. No two people on earth completely adore each other every day. Without some institutional mechanism to help keep us in relationships when we'd rather be doing something else, few unions would long survive. Before Johnson's welfare plans of the 1960s, marriage was about the only security women and kids had available for thousands of years. Even in cultures which had never heard of Adam and Eve and in countries which outlawed religion completely, it was still necessary to arrange institutions which discouraged men from killing each other over a woman and compelled men to support their mate(s) and offspring. Penguins have never read the Bible and don't practice any religion, but for the survival of the species, they pair up in monogamous unions. I think humans are at least as smart as penguins.


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## gfl

"And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, 'Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?' He answered, 'Have you not read that he who made them *from the beginning *made them male and female, and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.' They said to him, 'Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?' He said to them, 'For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so"' (Mt 19:3ff., cf. also Mk 10:2ff.).

what part of from the beginning dont you understand? Jesus Christ referred twice to the "beginning." 

we are created in Gods image with the ability to choose our behaviors therefore negating the animal theory...although i do crave fish now and then like pengins>>>:rofl::rofl:

i hope you know this topic is pretty funny and can take a prod now and then but in all seriousness as bad as i want to God does not need me to defend his word , he can do that on his own my only wish is for the non-beleivers to do some serious soul searching...that is IF you beleive you have one :smthumbup:


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## gfl

lets break it down even more Pope style:

Therefore, "the beginning" means that which Genesis speaks about. Christ quoted Genesis 1:27 in summary form: "In the beginning the Creator made them male and female." The original passage reads textually as follows: "God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." Subsequently, the Master referred to Genesis 2:24: "Therefore, a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh." Quoting these words almost in full, Christ gave them an even more explicit normative meaning (since it could be supported that in Genesis they express de facto statements:"leaves...cleaves...they become one flesh"). The normative meaning is plausible since Christ did not confine himself only to the quotation itself, but added: "So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." That "let not man put asunder" is decisive. In the light of these words of Christ, Genesis 2:24 sets forth the principle of the unity and indissolubility of marriage as the very content of the Word of God, expressed in the most ancient revelation.

It could be maintained at this point that the problem is exhausted, that Jesus Christ's words confirm the eternal law formulated and set up by God from "*the beginning*" as the creation of man. It might also seem that the Master, confirming this original law of the Creator, did nothing but establish exclusively his own normative meaning, referring to the authority itself of the first Legislator. However, that significant expression "*from the beginning*," repeated twice, clearly induced his interlocutors to reflect on the way in *which man was formed in the mystery of creation*, precisely as "male and female," in order to understand correctly the normative sense of the words of Genesis. This is no less valid for the people of today than for those of that time. …

it is as good today is it was back then there is nothing new under the sun only that we get in our own way be it laziness, arrogance, pride and self importance ...yes we are so special and we have are own idea about life forget the scholors of over 2000 AD -years of teaching..."we must persist that we have the answers and that everyone else is part of some conspiracy and or idiosyncrasy…the moon and sun rises in OUR backyard unilke the thousands of years before us,,,


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## cherrypie18

honestly no offense to anyone but i couldn't help it


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## gfl

cherrypie18 said:


> honestly no offense to anyone but i couldn't help it


haha  iam certain God has a sense of humor ...


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## LSU Fan

cb45 said:


> When one looks throughout history, beginning and ending w/ of course, the Bible,
> one can only wonder is this really what GOD intended for marr'd life on earth?
> 
> I mean, look at the divorce rate, look at the poor relations
> of those who still claim to be marr'd etc. Who's really marr'd.....
> 25% or less of the marr'd population?
> 
> I know there may be many takes on this subject some
> predictable some not, but I look forward to any deep
> thinkers here, b4 i weigh in, or get called out/upon to respond.
> 
> 
> peace-------------------:smthumbup:----------------cb45



Marriage is not just and "idea"...It is the PLAN.
Talk about divorce rates, that is mankind's fault, we screwed it up not God.
So based on murder rates, is "living" the idea???

Just because we as humans manage to corrupt and turn things around to fit what we want in life doesn't mean God messed up.

EVERYTHING is part of His plan...Good, Bad, or Indifferent..it all works out the way He wants it too


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## RandomDude

On the steppes some nomadic tribes, many of which are cultures of their own, practiced matriachy, or polygamy or even polyandry - depending on the history of a certain people or environmental or situational issues.

Just putting it out there. But of course, we were "pagans" and such.


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## Gavin

LSU Fan said:


> Marriage is not just and "idea"...It is the PLAN.
> Talk about divorce rates, that is mankind's fault, we screwed it up not God.
> So based on murder rates, is "living" the idea???
> 
> Just because we as humans manage to corrupt and turn things around to fit what we want in life doesn't mean God messed up.
> 
> EVERYTHING is part of His plan...Good, Bad, or Indifferent..it all works out the way He wants it too


Well said...we live in a fallen world where mankind does not always conform to God's plan for our lives and marriages. I believe I was divinely led to my wife as a young man. Been married for 31 years and have seen God's hand of blessing in all areas of our marriage where we have submitted to His plan for us. We are still madly in love with each other...something that is not easy to achieve without help from the Almighty.


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## cb45

well....guess no mature christians picked up on this thread. that, or they jealously
guard whats been revealed to them, or they're not sure, or...

or....

Or, one of the themes/things i was looking for was whether or
not God had a different plan in mind for marriage when forming
ha'adam and later Eve out of mankind; seeing how HIS ways are
higher than our ways, likewise HIS thoughts to ours.

I find it very interesting how Jesus states it (esp in the orig greek) in the N.T. re: men divorcing their wives (patriarchal society), several times over and WHOS the real Husband to the oft marr'd Wife. Remember, what He said about them made male and female... & they'd be as the Angels in Heaven (in the resurrection), neither marr'd nor given in marriage.female, nor given in marriage.

And also, when speaking of the end time He said "as in the days
of Noah, In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat.---Matt 24:38- :scratchhead:

interesting He couldve mentioned any other way/thing to describe the end time atmosphere, fornication, homosexuality,
beastiality, gluttony, sorcery, etc. BUT He used/mentioned
marriage and giving in marriage (as in, by humans...not by
God).

hmmm.....interesting, if u have an "eye" to see, or an "ear" to hear.

shalom aleichem...........


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## unbelievable

God made Adam a wife but He apparently didn't make Himself one and He knows all.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

In my case yes.
I had a specific prayer and it was answered by H showing up at my door with flowers (and apparently, mucho baggage including his ex-gf and an entourage of unstable women friends - one of whom claimed to be married to him in some way...and some challenging relatives.)
So that is that.
It doesn't escape my notice that God created my H and immediately after he was born I was conceived. :-|
H claims to be an atheist. I'm not sure who he is trying to fool.


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## Runs like Dog

If yes then He has an awfully subtle and dark sense of humor.


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## Blanca

unbelievable said:


> God made Adam a wife but He apparently didn't make Himself one and He knows all.


Maybe that's why he made adam and eve; He was bored and needed some company.


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## cb45

also roomies:

of significance is the fact that ha'adam was formed of the earth/dirt/clay/dust (pick yer adjective) and eve was formed
from within adam, not of the earth. interesting when u learn
of the significances of this via law, rights, proclivities, etc.

but u'll have to study that/these out for yerself in the hebrew
greek, and commentary texts, cuz i know Baptists, Catholics,
and the like will just "dis" whatever work someone else shows.
SEE what u find, share if u like.

Some may also wish to word-study out what ha'adam in hebrew
means as some here still think as they've been told to think, not what they studied for themselves. hint: its not a name
for ONE (big/little) man.
Also of note is looking at the hebrew characters of...say, the
names of God, adam, eve, etc.
very interesting stuff if u see the "patterns" & learn of the
significances.

shalom.....


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## fatiguedfatherof4

Here's the main reason I 'preach' (for lack of a better word there) monogamy to my children (this article really hit home the point for me!!)The Damage of Sexual Promiscuity
I hope this helps some folks the way it's helped me to unerstand the importance.


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## jimrich

cb45


> When one looks throughout history, beginning and ending w/ of course, the Bible,
> one can only wonder is this really what GOD intended for marr'd life on earth?


I'm not Her but I'd guess it is. She hasn't shared her intentions with me yet. :lol:


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## cb45

*"tell me all your thoughts on God"*



or better put:

YouTube - ‪Dishwalla - Counting Blue Cars‬‏

Dishwalla "counting blue cars"


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## RAYMOND

I believe the God of the bible and would say marriage is God's idea from the beginning. It was not good for man to dwell alone so God brought Eve to him as a helpmeet and so has it been ever since. Sex outside of marriage is forbidden so marriage is the legitimate place of sex according to the bible.


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## Runs like Dog

He didn't arrive at polygamy being a great idea.


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## weR2

cb45 said:


> i originally posed this thread question to examine whether it was man or God that created the institution of marriage. keyword....institution.
> 
> i know God united the man & woman via procreation standards etc., but, where was the first marriage ceremony?


It seems that most of the posts here are all headed in the same direction. Even those that don't seem that they are headed in the same direction, appear to have the same end result.

The bible says that on the 6th day God DECIDED to create man in his own image and likeness. What that image and likeness is is utterly debatable. Was it a physical likeness (human), or a spiritual likeness (soul), or could there be another likeness that we are not yet aware of and that we may never be aware of (unless we are God). In the old testament God is ONE, the concept of the deity did not arise until after the life of Jesus Christ and the appearance of the Holy Spirit after His death on the cross, where the Jewish leaders politically pressured the reluctant Pilate to crucify him. 

From the teachings of the old testament we are taught, that God blew life into Adam, and from his rib he created woman. In this case they would have the same DNA? And since they were the 'first', then we all have the same DNA? Also we understand that it was Eve that "ate the forbidden fruit", AND IT WAS BY ADAM'S CHOICE, that he decided to eat of the fruit as well, so that he could be with Eve. Could it be that what we see here is, that the concept of the male/female union was stronger than the union between God and man? OR, could it be that Adam and Eve understood that without the ability to bond with each other, they are nothing and hence unable to become one with God. 

EVERYWHERE we go, everything we see, and within everything that exists we see this. The yin and yang, positive and negative =energy, black and white=color, male and female=child, even all the information that we see here on in the internet has only two 'characters' I and O, and from these two 'characters' we get unlimited information. A car battery without the negative side of the battery hooked up will not start the car, and vice versa. Even an atom must have a at least one proton and one electron to exist.

Yes, it was Moses that initiated the institution of marriage, perhaps in an attempt to 'suppress/control' the animal nature of those that he trying to lead. They desired ritual, they liked the rituals of the Egyptians. So, did he muster these rituals to control them? And as we see, the rules of marriage are continually changing, even on this forum we are forming our own individual "rules".

Could our goal here on earth be for our soul to discover how to become 'whole'? Can, or does the institution of marriage nowadays hamper this? What if we err and marry the wrong person? 

When we read even the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John we all know that they narratives, and we all know how a story can be confused from one friend to another. Furthermore we see small discrepancies between the gospels. Additionally, we need to not forget while reading the 'other books' of the New Testament, that they were mostly letters written to certain new churches regarding specific situations while the Christian church was at it's birth, many years after the death of Christ. None of them written by an apostle.


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## Parrothead

TNgirl232 said:


> The way our minister put it during pre-maritial counseling was "if God has called you together into this marriage, then there is nothing that He will put before you that you can not make it through together." Basically - if you feel God called you into marriage with a specific person, then you can't be broken apart by life. If he didn't and you married the wrong person, then you won't be able to. I actually like this idea. So far, so good


:smthumbup::iagree:


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## Parrothead

827Aug said:


> But over the years religion has been used as tool to control people.


Control people to what end? 

Personally, I think taxes control people more than any religion. They always have.


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## cb45

Parrothead...rofl: yer name, it "floors" me), at various times & in sundry places 827
is right (historically/presently/futuristically?), there is a control
factor BUT, dont think she meant by God, just man/church as
the manipulater.

WeR, wanted to respond to yer last post but it would be off
topic (some) and may infuriate/grate some conservative types
the wrong way here. thats why i pm'd ya an invite.

shalom.


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## Parrothead

cb45 said:


> Parrothead...rofl: yer name, it "floors" me), at various times & in sundry places 827
> is right (historically/presently/futuristically?), there is a control
> factor BUT, dont think she meant by God, just man/church as
> the manipulater.


You don't know what a Parrothead is? 

And on the other thing, I wanted to know exactly what she meant by that, because governments exert far more control over people than the church does. 

After all, the church doesn't tell you what kind of toilet you can have, what kind of lightbulbs, or where you should set your thermostat.


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## that_girl

I think Disney messed up a lot for little girls when it comes to love and marriage. We expect "happily ever after" and that simply is not the case.


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## cb45

i'm not arguing with ya 
parrot over who controls more, i get what yer saying;
just trying to elaborate 827's post for her or my understdg
thereof. (maybe she'll chime in if i'm wrong or if nec)

tks for the link. my family informed me re: the buffet 
connotation to phrase b4 u did.
problem is, growing up in NYC area back in late 60's/70's, 
we used phrase parrothead much like pinhead was used
....ala derogatory manner, that 'tis.
'85 margaritaville time came later obviously. so easy to
see/know why folks like me think this/that of pop culture
words/slang/etc. timing is everything.

50 - 500 yrs from now, parrothead WILL take on several-
many different meanings per slang "evolution/revolutions"
if u no wat i mean - jelly bean. (i boldly...lol...predict)

peace.

cb


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## Parrothead

cb45 said:


> i'm not arguing with ya
> parrot over who controls more, i get what yer saying;
> just trying to elaborate 827's post for her or my understdg
> thereof. (maybe she'll chime in if i'm wrong or if nec)
> 
> tks for the link. my family informed me re: the buffet
> connotation to phrase b4 u did.
> problem is, growing up in NYC area back in late 60's/70's,
> we used phrase parrothead much like pinhead was used
> ....ala derogatory manner, that 'tis.
> '85 margaritaville time came later obviously. so easy to
> see/know why folks like me think this/that of pop culture
> words/slang/etc. timing is everything.
> 
> 50 - 500 yrs from now, parrothead WILL take on several-
> many different meanings per slang "evolution/revolutions"
> if u no wat i mean - jelly bean. (i boldly...lol...predict)
> 
> peace.
> 
> cb


It's just that I find slogans such as "the church is used to control people" tiresome. It's a little too pat for me, especially when entities and people and groups everywhere are trying to "control" you, for one reason or another. The church is the least of your worries. At least in the church you can still vote with your feet.


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## cb45

*another reason i submitted this idea as a thread was to see how many mature or "other"un-typical views/understanding there were/are out there wherever/whoever u are.

i'm guessing tho' they(we?) only make up less than 5% of believers in Yeshua Ha'Mashiach, Son of God/Son of Man.

for havent seen/read anything yet outside mainstream lines of
Christian thought/teachings since this "line" was cast.

Selah.*


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## RAYMOND

The real church does not control. Far from it. What can control is religion which is something else. We need to discern the difference. The scripture says those who would be leader let them be the servant of all. Where is control in that? 

Also when you come together every one of you has a contribution. 1 cor 14:26. God gives us freewill and what we do with it is down to us but we will be wise if we go His way in my opinion.


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## cb45

*food for thought u offered RAY...*

.....real church" needs to be defined b4 i can agree with u on this pt. yet it "begs" agrmt.

u hint at something i constantly need to remind myself of & actually meditate upon and that is, God is sooooo incredibly
beautifully humble, merciful, as well as the "scary" parts we
get drilled into us as kids 'bout God with films like cecil b d'milles
(sp?) 10 commandments starring charlton heston as moses (or moseh).

God is love God is love. And if it be not sin i wish to mirror that
love back to God, in honor/praise to HIM, as well as to imitate
HIM and thank HIM all at the same time.

No one did this better in the flesh than Jesus.

Thats one of many reasons why there is no other/greater
name than JESUS/Yeshua of Nazareth.

I could go on n on n on......n on. But methinks u get my 
drift.

shabbat shalom.


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## grizabella

cb45, if you don't know what the "real" Church is perhaps you need to study a little more and talk a little less. If you don't want to talk about the Church and you don't want to talk about mainstream Christianity then the gibberish you are talking makes no sense.


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## RAYMOND

*Re: food for thought u offered RAY...*



cb45 said:


> .....real church" needs to be defined b4 i can agree with u on this pt. yet it "begs" agrmt.


I believe you become part of the real Church when you come into a personal relationship with Jesus. The scripture describes it as His body His bride etc. Nothing to do with man made religion. It has to be Godmade and that is the way He has chosen to do it i.e. through His son according to scripture.


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## cb45

*thank you RAY...*



RAYMOND said:


> I believe you become part of the real Church when you *come into a personal relationship with Jesus.* The scripture describes it as His body His bride etc. Nothing to do with man made religion. It has to be Godmade and that is the way He has chosen to do it i.e. through His son according to scripture.


---RayMond.

Thanks for clarifying that
for me Ray, as tho' what we write/say is perfectly clear to us,
such is not always the case with the "recipient" as it were.

language is a frontier unto itself. big, vast, and "wild" (at times)
and so, we have to carefully explore semantical differences of
expression etc. i'm as guilty of violating "understanding" as 
anybody i guess, so i try to stay diligent/focused and ASK 
people what they mean/meant by this or that word, expression,
etc, and not just ASSUME i know what they mean/meant.

the world would be a better place if more folk did likewise,
more often, no?

again, thanks for yer patient post. this exhibits more of the H>S> power of working patience/kindness/love in yer life
via yer writings here. keep up the faith/obedience/manifest.

Notice that i boldfaced one sentence of yours (= :iagree: totally) and, underlined another (= possible :scratchhead: ).

re: the underlined, it behooves me to ask you either (however
whichever style Q u like...he hee) 1. what do u mean entirelyby this sentence? *OR* 2. what part do/does we/freewill play in this "process" u mentioned in same, said,
sentence? 

i thank you in advance for understanding/responding once
more.

shalom.


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## RAYMOND

It is all a question of faith CB. It is clear to me from scripture that there are hundreds of prophesys about the coming messiah Jesus. It is obvious from the new testament that our salavation depends on believing on Christ. Many times Jesus would mention the He was the way for us and that salvation rested on us belieiving in Him as the one sent from the Father and concentrated on drawing us to himself. By doing that we have a relationship with Christ which he paid for us to have. It a matter of making a decision and asking Him in really.


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## cb45

well, that gets a basic

amen from me.


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## cb45

gosh lucy, u guys are still newly weds; u shouldnt be "suffering" this much so soon.

further down the line maybe, sure but, gee when i was about
2yrs in, maybe then the "honeymoon" was over/took a turn 
for the worse/etc.

sure, theres growing pains n all that bit but, the make ups
(sex/intimacy/honesty/vulnerability/etc was something else!
aka INTENSE/ALIVE/etc.)

maybe u exaggerate a bit or, are toooooo sensitive for both
yer goods.

peace.

PS oh, i signed up but i'm notorious for traveling, not coming
around oft enough. so hang in there.


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## Danielson67

God thought up and instituted the sacred union of man and woman. God also says he hates divorce (Malachi 2:16) and that the only reason Moses gave certificates of divorce was because of the hardness of peoples hearts. If you look at the reasons today for divorce it's because spouses have hardened their hearts and refuse to work on and fix the problems that will bring healing to their relationships.

Matthew 19:3-8
3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’a 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’b? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

7“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”


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## allisterfiend

marriage is nothing more than a contract between 2 people and the state in which they live. The piece of paper has nothing to do with being in love, but everything to do with how you qualify for loans and file your taxes.


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## qigong

cherrypie18 said:


> I also think the Pope is the only person who has access to the real story behind the bible or the actual original scripts.
> 
> Wasn't it priests who killed Jesus? Even today a lot of people are killed when they speak the truth, professors get fired from universities and teachers from schools.
> 
> I think Jesus was trying to send us a really important message, and whatever is written in the bible should not be taken word for word. There's a deeper meaning behind it all. I think his mission was to enlighten us, and let us know that we are capable of everything he was. We control ourselves physically and mentally and spiritually and we are our own god in a sense. There is a greater power out there, but we are just as powerful. We've turned into dormant volcanoes who have no idea that we were capable of in the past. Just IMO from reading and watching a lot of different stuff about god the bible and Jesus.


I believe there are many, many secrets hidden in the Vatican library and hopefully some of the original texts will one day come to light. They would be very interesting to study.

I like your take on Jesus. He was a phenomenal teacher carrying a profound message. Ironically many Christians don't realize this or follow many of the basic tenets of their own religion, but I digress. I agree that we are capable of so much more than we could possibly imagine. Though, because we are still in many ways, simple creatures driven by our own conditioning, true consciousness is slow growing. I hope for myself to crawl out of the quagmire of conditioned behaviors to enlightenment.


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## allisterfiend

qigong said:


> I believe there are many, many secrets hidden in the Vatican library and hopefully some of the original texts will one day come to light. They would be very interesting to study.
> 
> I like your take on Jesus. He was a phenomenal teacher carrying a profound message. Ironically many Christians don't realize this or follow many of the basic tenets of their own religion, but I digress. I agree that we are capable of so much more than we could possibly imagine. Though, because we are still in many ways, simple creatures driven by our own conditioning, true consciousness is slow growing. I hope for myself to crawl out of the quagmire of conditioned behaviors to enlightenment.


I agree Jesus was a great MAN with great ideas on how to be nice to one another. But he was just that, a man.

"I hate to twist your mind, but god aint on your side"


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## qigong

allisterfiend said:


> "I hate to twist your mind, but god aint on your side"


I never said he was or wasn't.


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## Runs like Dog

Of course Jesus never married so his recommendations were, abstract, at best.


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## allisterfiend

Runs like Dog said:


> Of course Jesus never married so his recommendations were, abstract, at best.


On the contrary, Jesus was married to Mary Magdellon, Who should really be credited for starting the christian religion. Remember, Muslims treat their women like crap now. do you honestly think it was any better 2000 years ago?


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## allisterfiend

TNgirl232 said:


> The way our minister put it during pre-maritial counseling was "if God has called you together into this marriage, then there is nothing that He will put before you that you can not make it through together." Basically - if you feel God called you into marriage with a specific person, then you can't be broken apart by life. If he didn't and you married the wrong person, then you won't be able to. I actually like this idea. So far, so good


That sounds like a good idea, however with the divorce rate so high, can you not see that he has "forsaken" us long ago. If there ever was one. 

"is man a product of god? or is god a product of man?"


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## BILAL

Very deep thinking...i like that


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## toadie

cb45 said:


> When one looks throughout history, beginning and ending w/ of course, the Bible,
> one can only wonder is this really what GOD intended for marr'd life on earth?


I believe it is. Physically and mentally, men and women are complimentary for pleasing one another, have complimentary traits that are likewise well suited for raising children.



> I mean, look at the divorce rate, look at the poor relations of those who still claim to be marr'd etc. Who's really marr'd..... 25% or less of the marr'd population?


Maybe in the US and other "developed" countries. As countries have become more secular, the divorce rates get higher and marriage rates seem to drop.



> I know there may be many takes on this subject some
> predictable some not, but I look forward to any deep
> thinkers here, b4 i weigh in, or get called out/upon to respond.


It's my opinion that marriage is what was intended by God, but it's something we're not going to be perfect at given our fallen nature (from a Christian perspective). Heck, I'm a Christian and I try my best to walk with the Lord, but I experience the same frustrations, urges, and make the same mistakes etc., as anyone else.




cherrypie18 said:


> Well throughout history women were taught to obey the men in their lives: father, brother and eventually husband. And men took advantage of the situation and decided that since women are supposed to obey them, they might as well control everything (IMO lol)
> If we lived by Bible rules, there obviously wouldn't be as much divorce today.


This is true from a historical perspective. The tricky question isn't whether this is accurate, it's whether this (patriarchal) form of societal structure is really what God had in mind, or whether marriage and religion were both colored this way by Biblical authors writing in a patriarchal time. There's a good bit of attitude difference between the Old and New Testament with regard to the responsibility of the husband to his wife, though the patriarchal flavor still rears its head.



> Plus I think all of this was made up by _men_ to be able to control everything and everyone, including women. Religion does nothing but harm.


In certain times, religion has been used to control people. But in the absence of religion, immoral people simply come up with something else to control people. This is not an indication that religion was "made up" for this purpose. It's an indication that there are some people who will use anything to control others. Look at the communist countries who got rid of religion (or greatly reduced its influence); they resorted to force for control and many tens of millions of people died as a result; _in one 80-year period_. Some people will always find ways to control others. Some use religion. That doesn't logically mean religion is harmful, but rather that there are certain individuals who are harmful. The common denominator in any controlling structure is an immoral human, not the manner of control. Because people abuse religion does not logically mean that religion is bad in and of itself. It further seems to make a mistake by lumping all religion into the same bucket, despite the differences in their teachings.


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## toadie

allisterfiend said:


> That sounds like a good idea, however with the divorce rate so high, can you not see that he has "forsaken" us long ago. If there ever was one.


Assuming there is a God, for sake of discussion, who has forsaken who here? Presumably if there is a God, then we were created with some amount of free will. This is the only way we could truly love God. Being created with free will also entails the ability to choose to not love God, not obey Him, etc. It's hard to imagine how God is responsible for the divorce rates being what they are. Seems like human choice is more likley responsible.



> "is man a product of god? or is god a product of man?"


Both, for good and bad. Again assuming there is a God for discussion purposes, there's no way we could, as humans, comprehend Him. So, we do as humans do, filling in the gaps. Even among Christians, or among Jews, or among Muslims, no two people will have the same conception of God as the other.

Assuming that there is no God for purposes of discussion, then discussions of morality or divorce rates are rather moot in the end, akin to discussing personal preferences such as favorite ice cream flavors.


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## cb45

Pardon me if i dont respond to some of the above ridiculousness posted above; for obviously theres not much "thought processes" taking place or o/wise they're trying to be, hmmm, "provocative" lets say.
(esp unfortunate names like bilal & ..fiend.... )


It's my opinion that marriage is what was intended by God, but it's something we're not going to be perfect at given our fallen nature (from a Christian perspective). Heck, I'm a Christian and I try my best to walk with the Lord, but I experience the same frustrations, urges, and make the same mistakes etc., as anyone else.----toadie

Believe i've been "shown" that what went down in "Eden" was both simple & complex/spiritual & physical, especially as pertains to Eve and the subsequent birth of Cain, & all the mess (?) that flowed/followed afterwards. While i dont profess to have the full monty on the story (for there always seems to be more, more, & more still....), i do profess to have a larger piece of the puzzle or more of the puzzle "solved" (lets say) than the avg "Joe/Jane" out there in real world flesh land.
Yet, i am being patient waiting upon God to give confirmational
permission(s) to share it with others, case by case as the need may arise for ALL parties.

I can tell you this toadie, et al. That the scenario intended for marriage between Man & Woman as practiced here on earth, is not, repeat NOT, as it is in heaven, so little wonder we have this website full of poor lost souls trying to help one another out of the marital "ditches" they find themselves (BOTH/ALL parties!) in. 

Selah.......Pray.......See/Hear what the Word of YaHWeH tells you.......Amein & Amein

[if u need further "clues" read particularly on what Jesus Himself said re: marriage, heaven, last days, and how it all ties together....for you & yer "walk" with Him  )

Shalomi


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## toadie

cb45 said:


> I can tell you this toadie, et al. That the scenario intended for marriage between Man & Woman as practiced here on earth, is not, repeat NOT, as it is in heaven, so little wonder we have this website full of poor lost souls trying to help one another out of the marital "ditches" they find themselves (BOTH/ALL parties!) in.
> 
> Shalomi


No, I'm aware that God's plans for us won't always include marriage. Jesus made that clear when he said that we would not be "taken" in marriage in Heaven. So, apparently, there is no marriage there. I do think that here in this life, however, that marriage was His intent.


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