# Worried about husband during seperation



## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

Where to begin...I've been with my husband for a total of 23 years and married for 14 of those. It's never been a great relationship. My husband is emotionally and verbally abusive but of course he doesn't recognize any of that. I've never felt secure in our relationship. He's always seemed to play on my insecurities. Now, after many years, I know it's because of his own insecurities. He has been physical at times. Not a lot but still any physical abuse it too much.
We've both always worked. I've worked for him all these years plus held an outside job of my own. I've played a very big role in his business and when business was bad I'd get blamed for things even though it was never my fault that things were not going right. Just part of running a business. We have two children, ages 12 and 8. Things were great financially for a long time but with the economy the last 5 years, it's all been downhill. I lost my job and his business came to a brutal halt. 
I've been unhappy for years, even before the birth of our second child. I remember crying myself to sleep night after night because I felt unloved and unappreciated. He was they type of man who expected me to iron his clothes, fix his plate, make his drink, etc...all while carrying on a full time job and work for him and do everything for the kids. I got little to no help from him when it came to household chores and taking care of kids. A few years ago things took a turn for the worse. He hit me in the face in front of the kids one night. He had been drinking and arguing with a friend. He always seems to argue with people. He took it out on me. That night, I lost anything I had left. I didn't want to split up our family so I went looking for some outside affection. I ended up having a short fling with my son's baseball coach. Not proud of that one. Husband found out I had something with someone. Didn't know who and didn't know how far it went. Things got worse. We were on vacation and we had a horrible fight, again in front of the kids. I hit first. I was so frustrated at the whole thing. I'd never hit him ever before but I did and he struck back only harder and more. Broke my nose and had to spend the rest of the trip hiding two black eyes and a broken nose from our friends we were with. After we got back I told him I wanted out but he convinced me that we needed to stay until we could work out our financial problems and cleans things up for the boys. I agreed but I ended up having an emotional affair with someone for two months. My husband found out and ran the guy off and we entered into therapy. Then our problems became all about my two emotional affairs. He would take no responsibility for any of our problems. Even though I took full credit for my wrong doings. We would only argue at therapy and the therapist said he would only see us separately because we got nowhere together. I stayed in therapy for 8 months while my husband went to 3 sessions before dropping out. He would say he was working on what they've already discussed. This summer I told him I was moving out of state to live with my parents. We put the house up for sell and the kids and I moved in with my parents while my husband as stayed back. That was the middle of August. My husband is living with a friend because he can't afford to live anywhere. I'm living with my parents until I can find a job and support me and the boys. My husbands keeps saying he wants to make this work and I don't. I'm so emotionally broken by this man I can't stand to be around him. He's come to town three times to visit the boys, usually staying with his sister. This past weekend he came in and stayed here with us. I agreed to let him and it was horrible. I can't stand to be around him and I hate that. He's broken. He has no where to go, no money to support himself and I know he hates being around the kids. I just want to file and move on but I'm worried about him and what he will do. 
I don't even know if any of this makes sense. I'm just trying to clear my head and I don't know what to do. Do I make my kids and my husband suffer because I don't love him or do I suck it up and forget about my happiness so they all can be happy. And not to say my kids would be happy with us all together because all we do is fight when we're together. 
I just want to be with someone who loves me and doesn't try to diminish my self worth and tell me all I do wrong. He says I'm holding onto the past and can't forgive him but I know he hasn't changed. He doesn't even see that he needs to change.


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## KNIFE IN THE HEART (Oct 20, 2011)

Are you doing any individual counseling? If not, start. You are not responsible for how he feels or how he lives his life. You need to take care of yourself and the children. 

Don't give him a place to stay when he comes to visit. I'm sure your children are happier to be away from the stress of your fighting. An abusive relationship will not work.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Confused: I can relate to some of the same feelings you have posted. I believe you should just move forward especially if you do not love your ex any longer.

I have worked all 18 years of my marriage in addition to being a full bookkeeper to ex General Contractor business. I did all the child care and housework. My ex would do lawn work and repairs around house, but mostly all chores, tasks and finances were left to me. 

In the beginning of our marriage, I enjoyed the traditional roles of wife and mom and was very good at juggling everything. As the years went by, I started getting resentful that I was being taken for granted without any recognition or praise. 

My ex would work on weekends or head to track for the day without any communication to me or asking about plans.

The resentment in me built up more when ex starting disappearing at night and claimed he was doing a night remodel. That was affair number 1.

After the affair was revealed, Imistress called me) I was devastated and really shut down. I was a good wife!! Not perfect but loving, loyal, committed to my family, salary earner, covered all the medical benefits and remained bookkeeper to his business. 

At this time economy crashed and ex successful business went dormant. I had talks with him and begged him to sit down and review bills and figure out a game plan to sell house. He refused and called me a "nag". Our accountant talked to him and he ignored all of us. He never knew what was in the bank, how much credit card debt and would purchase things and gamble without a care. 

We went to MC but instead of him facing the reality, he went and had a 2nd affair to avoid home. 

Now a few years later after I kicked him out and separated, my ex has no money in bank, he has not paid his business taxes in 2 years, he has not entered any business acct receivables, he barely pays the credit cards we split and has no retirement funds any longer. He barely has enough money to put gas in his car. His pick up truck is broke down and he is now driving an old work van.

Although I know I did all I could to turn our marriage and finances around and help him, I finally had to just move forward and realize this man disrespected me, ruined his life with his decisions and is now a shell of a man. He is now accusing me of stealing money and blaming me for the financial position we are in. He is finally forces to review our finances due to divorce and having to sign off on all marital debt.

My heart strings tug when he calls and tells me how broke he is but now I say nothing and just stick to child questions/answers. I am not his mother I was his wife who he betrayed and he needs to take accountability for his choices and move on. 

It is time these men grew a pair; bought a mirror; dust themselves off and start looking for a job, apartment and a counselor!


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

I just wanted to clarify that he "hates being away from the kids". In my original post a mistyped it as being around the kids. He loves the kids more than anything.

I appreciate the advice! We are not currently in counseling. Can't afford it right now.


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

Every single day I go through hours of texting about how I ruined his life. All day every day. He busts his ass at work and I'm sitting over here living a good life. He hasn't worked but maybe 5 days in the last 30 days. He doesn't give me money. He can't pay his bills. 
Crap. I'm so frustrated.


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## KNIFE IN THE HEART (Oct 20, 2011)

What do you mean about the texting? Is someone sending you texts that say that?

I think I posted in another thread about him playing the victim. If his life is ruined, that's because he allowed it to happen. He had a choice in how to act. Some people just don't want to take responsibility for their feelings and their decisions. Good riddance!


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## KNIFE IN THE HEART (Oct 20, 2011)

Totally off topic now, I really like the color in the background of your picture. Is it a painted wall? I want to paint my walls that color. I checked your profile to see if I could send you a message but I couldn't find a place. That's why I posted here.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Affairs and violence....get yourself to counseling and work on yourself. Your marriage is over. The question is whether you can make it out of this a person who can be better the next time. Get to counseling. You will just repeat this again if you don't do some really hard soul searching and work. Hard days ahead are ahead if you are honest with yourself. But it will be better in the end.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Also, your posts are all about him. You are focusing way too much on him. You are going to have to start putting energy into yourself and how the symptoms that you manifest, affairs and domestic violence, hide deeper unresolved issues within you that you must deal with. Stop focusing on what your husband says and does. It is a waste of your time and energy. You are the only one you can change, and from the description, you have plenty to work on and a lot of hard work to do ahead. The sooner you get to it the better off you will be, the more peace you will have now and down the road.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You let it go to long and the affairs were the wrong answer. You see it all clearly today. Your current separation is a rational move.

If there is no hope of reconciliation, tell him.
If you want to date tell him, your are finished.

If you think he could turn things around and you will wait, tell him.

He has right to see your children. They have a right to a relationship with their father.

No pity party for him. 

Also, your affairs did hurt him. You should feel guilty. And he sure ought to be sorry about his abuse. Does he not recognize that it is crime to hit someone? Adultery is not a crime.


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

After reading about High Conflict People, I am convinced that this is my husband to a T. I had never heard about the disorder but now I know what I'm faced with. 
Yes, my affairs hurt him. I'm not saying they didn't or that they were justified. That was my coward way of screaming for help or trying to push him away from me. 
He does have a right to see his children but I am trying to protect them from his constant conflict. I've read his texts to my older son blaming me for our situation and why we had to move out and sell our home. But I would never want to take them away from him. They deserve to have their father in their lives but they also deserve a happy and healthy atmosphere. 

Arendt...I seem to focus more on him because he puts all the focus on him. I know I don't have to allow it but that has pretty much been our life for 22 years. I would wake up to 7 page letters about how bad of a mother or wife I am and all the wrongs I do. It's going to take some serious work for me to learn that it's not all my fault. I'm not guiltless in this, I know, but I am not dealing with a normal healthy person. 

Thanks for all the help and advice!!! Very happy I found this forum.

Knifeintheheart...it's crappy old wallpaper and the color is warmer in the picture than it actually is.


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

Hi Confused:
You know what you need to do. Physical and verbal abuse are not okay.


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## mymistake (Jun 18, 2013)

Hi, Confused - I can relate to so much of what you dealing with. Much of our story parallels, including my affair. Also a cowardly scream for help. Currently I have filed for divorce but living in the same house and it is chaos all the time. He will not allow me to move out with our children and I haven't had the heart to file true but devastating temporary custody papers on him to have the court give me permission to move(they have been sitting on my desk for a month). There has been verbal, sexual, emotional and small amount of physical abuse in our relationship. Some before the affair and a lot afterward. I still worry about him though and I wonder if my kids will blame me for his self destruction one day. I recommend you read Codependent No More, my therapist had me read it and it has helped me to start understanding why I allowed my husband to treat me like he did for so long. Try to find a counselor that works on a sliding scale based on your income. It will be well worth the small fee - I promise.
I wish you and your children so much happiness. You deserve it.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Do not pass Go, do not give him $200, and do not worry about him. He did this to himself, and he's a grown man. Let him take care of himself.

You, on the other hand? Take care of you! You and your kids, that's got to be the most important thing to you right now. Going back to this man and continuing to expose your children to his abuse and dysfunction is NOT good for them.

I agree, you need to get yourself into counseling, or some sort of support group thing. See if a local counseling center has pre-license therapists, if you can't afford IC. Pre-license therapists charge much less - in DC, it's less than $50 a session. You might want to do therapy with your kids, especially if your STBXH is spewing venom about you to them. What he's doing to them - and they are clearly victims of his abuse as well - is going to have long-term affects on them personally, and potentially on your relationship with your kids as well.

Is your son upset by these text messages? You can tell your son he can block his dad from texting if he doesn't like getting those messages. It may be empowering for your kid to know that he can draw that boundary - not easy for a kid to do with a parent, but it actually might be good for him.


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

My son generally ignores texts of that nature. I just hate that my husband would even do that. I'm trying to teach my son to stand up for himself against his dad. It's such an unnatural thing to do against a parent. He's going to have to deal with him his whole life but they love him and I can see that they are doing better being away from the turmoil but they miss their daddy. They don't understand how he is and he is not as bad with them as he is with me. But they certainly know when they've made daddy unhappy.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

confusedinsc said:


> My son generally ignores texts of that nature. I just hate that my husband would even do that. I'm trying to teach my son to stand up for himself against his dad. It's such an unnatural thing to do against a parent. He's going to have to deal with him his whole life but they love him and I can see that they are doing better being away from the turmoil but they miss their daddy. They don't understand how he is and he is not as bad with them as he is with me. But they certainly know when they've made daddy unhappy.


This alone is a really good reason for your kids to speak with a counselor or other adult who is external to the situation and can help them sort out their feelings and help them to understand what is going on.

Is there a guidance counselor at their school or a trusted teacher they can speak with?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

You should file for divorce. 

Abuse and cheating are never good. 

He should not abuse you and you should have never cheated on him. I have a friend where his wife had an affair. He has never gotten over it after 35 years. He told me he hopes the pain will go away when he dies. 

Your husband has severe anger issues, even before the affairs. You can not fix him and you need him out of your life. You also need to get counseling so that you find out how you could break your vows so that it does not happen in the future. 

It is time to end this marriage. I hope your children will be fine.


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## KNIFE IN THE HEART (Oct 20, 2011)

confusedinsc said:


> they certainly know when they've made daddy unhappy.


With regards to the last statement, this could be a good teaching opportunity. I hope I don't sound like a broken record but you cannot "make" a person feel an emotion. Each person is responsible for their own emotions. We always have a choice in how we respond to a situation. Explain to your kids that daddy is unhappy not because of their actions, daddy is unhappy because he chooses to feel this way in response to the situation. Your kids are not responsible for their daddy's emotional health. this can help your kids in a couple of ways. One, it takes away the feeling that if they only behave in the right way (who knows what that is) then their daddy would be happy. It's wrong for kids to feel like who they are is wrong, because of the way a parent reacts to them. Second, it will teach your kids that they are responsible for their own emotions. It will empower them to respond in an emotionally healthy way to any situation.


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

Knife...I totally agree with you. I know after 8 months in therapy that I chose to let my husband effect me the way he has. I know I need to get the kids into therapy. Hopefully I will be able to do that soon.

Harry Brown....I spent 8 months in therapy after the affairs. I know why I did what I did. I was desperate to feel something. Acceptance and affection from someone. Wrong as it was.


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## Micfhelle (Oct 13, 2013)

Crap. I'm so frustrated.


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

Micfhelle, what are you frustrated about?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Confused, I am responding below to your 10/15 post in Trying2Survive's thread.


confusedinsc said:


> *Uptown [the following list of traits] just totally described my spouse to a t. Every single word.*
> 
> 
> 1. Black-white thinking, wherein he categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
> ...


Confused, I'm sorry to hear you believe this list of 18 traits so closely matches your H's behavior. These traits are classic symptoms of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), a disorder that I would not wish upon my worst enemy. My exW suffers from it. 

If your H really does have strong traits of BPD, he is capable of loving you and your children. Indeed, you've already conceded that he deeply loves your kids. I mention this because you've speculated (in your 10/12 post) that your H is "a controlling narcissist." That likely is untrue, given that he loves the kids. A full-blown narcissist is incapable of loving anyone. It nonetheless is common for BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits) to also exhibit some strong aspects of narcissism.

Of course, you cannot determine whether your H's BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD. There is nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether he has most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met him, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs.

I therefore suggest you read more about BPD traits to see if most of them sound very familiar. An easy place to start is my post at My list of hell!, where I provide a more detailed description of the traits and what it is like to live with a BPDer. If that discussion rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. I also would recommend you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a professional's candid opinion on what it is you and the kids are dealing with. Take care, Confused.


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

Thank you for the information, Uptown. I do believe that my husband has severe BPD traits. It causes stress every single day. He can not deal with any kind of stress without these characteristics coming into play. I'm off to read your link. I really need help in figuring out what to do. I don't want to just abandon my husband but I can't continue to live this way.


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

Uptown, can you shed some light on the honeymoon period ending? Why would I have chosen to stay? We dated 3 years and lived together 5 years before he would even get married. I kick myself wondering why I stayed even when I could see the behavior then. I didn't really understand it but I saw it. Over the 22 years it's only escalated and I have so many memories tainted by his rage and fits. Vacations ruined, birth of kids tainted with his bull****, deaths of family members, etc. It goes on and on. I would love for him to get therapy but even if he does, I am at a point where I feel like I could never be with him in a marriage capacity again. He says I can't let go and forgive and that isn't it at all. I just know he'll never be the person I need. And I can't stand the person I allow him to make me become when he's around. It's like I have two different personalities now. I will get my hands on a copy of "Stop Walking on Eggshells" today. Thank you so much for posting this information.

edited to add...do you think it would be beneficial for me to talk to some of his siblings? I keep wanting to call his sister and try to get insight to why he could possibly be this way.


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## confusedinsc (Oct 8, 2013)

The Borderline is hyper-sensitive to any form of abandonment, either real or imagined. When one's foundational belief is that everyone who has meaning or value will abandon them, they'll orchestrate their relationships in such a way, that they keep getting to be right about it!

I hear this daily. He was kicked out by parents at 16. Went to live with one sister only to be kicked out a few months later. Went to live with another sister to be kicked out again. His first wife left him. Everyone leaves him and now I've only confirmed his reality in leaving him like the rest. It's tremendous guilt on me and I often have thoughts that maybe I should stay and forfeit any happiness in life just so he's not abandoned by another person who is supposed to love him. Throw in the good ol' religious guilt that you should always make a marriage work and I feel screwed.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

confusedinsc said:


> Why would I have chosen to stay? We dated 3 years and lived together 5 years before he would even get married. I kick myself wondering why I stayed even when I could see the behavior then.


Likewise, I lived with my BPDer exW for four years before marrying her. As I understand it, the reason we stayed is that we are excessive caregivers having very low personal boundaries. We have so much empathy that it is hard for us to tell where our issues leave off and the spouse's issues begin.

Our problem is not wanting to help others. Rather, it is our willingness to keep helping even when it is to our great detriment to do so. Hence, the notion of _walking away from a sick loved_ one is anathema to us. That idea is against our family values, our religion, our sense of purpose -- indeed, is against every fiber of our being. There is no way we will abandon a sick loved one. Yet, if you can explain to us how we are not really helping -- and explain that we are, in fact, harming the loved one with our enabling behavior -- you can free us of the guilt and sense of obligation that keeps us mired in the toxic relationship.

The best explanation I've seen of how we got to be this way is Shari Schreiber's article at DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?. (Her other articles at that site are excellent too.) Schreiber explains that, in childhood, we were taught to be the little "fixers" of the family. One result is that our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the people we already are). 

Another result is that, when we are looking for a mate, we keep walking right on past all the emotionally available people (BORING) until we find someone who desperately needs us -- which is evident in the vulnerability that person projects ("catnip" to us). We mistakenly believe -- as fixers -- we will be able to restore that wonderful person we saw during the honeymoon period if only we can figure out what WE are doing wrong. That's the way "fixers" think. 

And the more time we have invested in the person, the more loath we are to give up and walk away -- even when that is exactly what we should do. In that way, I wasted 15 years trying to do the impossible by taking my exW to six different psychologists and several MCs.


> Do you think it would be beneficial for me to talk to some of his siblings? I keep wanting to call his sister and try to get insight to why he could possibly be this way.


Perhaps so if you feel a need for more evidence that he has strong BPD traits. You likely would get better information, however, by seeing a clinical psychologist for a visit or two to obtain a candid professional opinion.


> Everyone leaves him and now I've only confirmed his reality in leaving him like the rest. ...maybe I should stay and forfeit any happiness in life just so he's not abandoned by another person who is supposed to love him.


If he has strong BPD traits, staying will not improve his self image. A BPDer's self image is so fragile that the closest thing to a self concept he has is that of always being "The Victim." He has allowed you to remain in his life only because you've willingly played two roles, both of which "validate" that false self image.

The first role, which you played during the courtship, is that of "The Savior." Because you were trying to "save him" from his unhappiness, you were validating his false notion of being "The Victim." After all, victims need to be saved. As soon as his infatuation evaporated, however, his two fears returned and he could no longer perceive of you as a savior.

Instead, you became "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of every misfortune and mistake. In that way, you continue to support and validate his image of being a victim. Hence, regardless of whether you stay or leave, he will continue perceiving you as "The Perpetrator" and he will continue to believe you are going to leave him. Indeed, he is likely to eventually leave you. BPDers do that because, as the years go by, their fear of abandonment increases and they become increasingly resentful of your inability to fix them or make them happy.

If you stay, you will always remain in a lose-lose situation. The problem is that it is impossible to avoid triggering one fear (abandonment) without drawing closer to triggering the other fear (engulfment from intimacy). Significantly, those two fears lie at the opposite ends of the VERY SAME spectrum. This means that moving away from one necessarily means you are drawing closer to the other.

Finally, I note that -- with a BPDer -- you must let go of the false belief that you can heal him by loving him. Trying to do so is as foolish as trying to heal a burn patient by hugging him. The reason is that BPDers have such fragile egos that they quickly become engulfed during intimacy (feeling that your strong personality is somehow trying to control them). 

Yet, as you back away to give him breathing space, you will trigger a BPDer's strong fear of abandonment. Importantly, there is no safe midpoints position -- i.e., not too close and not too far -- where you can avoid both fears. That Goldilocks position does not exist. I know because I wasted 15 years searching for it.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Likewise, I lived with my BPDer exW for four years before marrying her. As I understand it, the reason we stayed is that we are excessive caregivers having very low personal boundaries. We have so much empathy that it is hard for us to tell where our issues leave off and the spouse's issues begin.
> 
> Our problem is not wanting to help others. Rather, it is our willingness to keep helping even when it is to our great detriment to do so. Hence, the notion of _walking away from a sick loved_ one is anathema to us. That idea is against our family values, our religion, our sense of purpose -- indeed, is against every fiber of our being. There is no way we will abandon a sick loved one. Yet, if you can explain to us how we are not really helping -- and explain that we are, in fact, harming the loved one with our enabling behavior -- you can free us of the guilt and sense of obligation that keeps us mired in the toxic relationship.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this, Uptown - captured the essence of my marriage perfectly. I'm so glad I managed to get out. Now I'm focusing on me and why I would subject myself to such abuse.


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