# Confused -- wife lied about past and lied during engagement



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

My wife and I have been married since December 2013. Until one week ago, the first 18 months of marriage have been absolutely fantastic and we were having so much fun in this extended “honeymoon” phase of our relationship. What changed everything was finding out some hidden truths and omitted details about her relationship right before she met me and what continued after we were engaged. Let me back track to provide a timeline so it all makes more sense…

I met my wife via an online dating service in January 2013. I was a little skeptical of finding someone online, and even more leery of the fact that she was living overseas, significantly farther that anyone I had previously dated. We just started off with some nice online conversations, but soon it turned into everyday extended chats on Skype. By March 2013, I had an airline ticket booked to go and see her and vacation plans to go traveling together the entire summer. Things were moving fast, but being in my mid-30s at that point and feeling a little discouraged with where previous relationships had gone, I figured it was all worth a shot.

Throughout March and April we continuously talked online and were always getting along well and laughing. When we talked about past relationships, which really only happened in one conversation, we both acknowledged that the past wasn’t really important and that if things went well in the summer, perhaps we had a bright future ahead of us. It was serious talk between two people who hadn’t actually spent time together, but at the time I thought it was exciting to dream of all the possibilities.

In early May the first strange behavior occurred. We were chatting online and she mentioned nonchalantly that in two days she was going off to the beach with “friends” of hers. No big deal, I thought, and then I inquired, “who are they?” She responded by just calling them some “work friends” and I thought nothing of it. 
The night before she left, she mentioned that she needed to go to bed early for her flight the next day to the beach. “A flight?” I asked. “I thought you said you were taking a bus?” She said the plans had changed. Again, I thought nothing of the inconsistency in her details. Then she added that she probably wouldn’t message while she was gone. Once again, I thought little of this since it is normal to just enjoy your time on vacation and not have to take out extended time for online chats. Besides, we hadn’t seen each other at this point. Why would I need to be jealous or suspicious. Later, this odd behavior made more sense when I learned what was actually happening in her life at the time, but I will get there later...

In mid-May, just days before I departed to meet her for the first time, there was the second odd/inconsistent behavior. At this point we talked everyday online and had a schedule around the time differences and work hours. Suddenly, for three days, I didn’t get any messages from her. She disappeared. After 3 days I made an international phone call (we normally used skype and viber for free) and she answered her phone. She explained to me that she “had no wifi” for some days and apologized for the lack of communication. Again, it seemed plausible and I thought little of it. Later, I would find out what was really going on during this time...

From late May through the end of July we spent every day together. It was fantastic and we had such a fun time getting to know each other. We were compatible emotionally, intellectually, and sexually. I had so much fun that I did something crazy and asked her to marry me! Hell, we were both in our 30s and wanted to build a life together. She agreed and we set the wedding date for December 2013. A very fast engagement, yes, but part of the excitement was how fast and amazing everything was happening around me. During the summer together things seemed perfect, so I had few reservations about “rushing” into marriage. She was equally enthusiastic. Things seemed normal...

We were apart from September 2013 until our wedding December 2013. We chatted online everyday and planned our wedding via long distance arrangements. Since our wedding December 2013, we have been happily married and have only had a few small arguments. Then, a few weeks ago, things got rough…

I am partially to blame for bringing upon myself the current crisis. A few weeks ago, after eating lunch, I noticed my wife’s old phone sitting next to the bed. I picked it up and began to play with it. Basically, I was spying on her private life by "playing" with her phone. What motivated me was not suspicion, but I realize now what I did was a violation of her privacy. In any case, what I found out shook me up. I discovered her previous bf was messaging and talking to her up through December 2013. The time she went away (May 2013) and disappeared for 3 days (May 2013) were the days she was with her boyfriend. It now made sense why she wasn't communicative at the time. She was basically cyber cheating on her bf. Remember, she met me via a dating site. When I arrived at the end of May 2013, she stopped messaging him for a month and was sleeping with me at that time. In July 2013, they broke up (they were messaging while I was staying with her) via phone and ceased communicating for some months. She never mentioned to him another man. In September 2013, after we were engaged, she began communicating with him via text and phone. They met for lunch 3 times as “friends” and apparently had no physical contact. She never mentioned to him that she was engaged. Their conversations at that time were flirtations. According to her ex-boyfriend, who is now furious he was cheated-on, the last time they were sexual with each other was May 2013, before I arrived. Based on this information, she never physically cheated on me. As a way of communicating with her ex, my wife had a secret, private facebook account named after her favorite love song she shared with him. She only deleted this account when I found out last week.

My wife says she is truly sorry and wants forgiveness. She reminds me that she never physically cheated on me and was wrong not to tell the ex about our engagement and marriage. Her ex, out of respect for me and anger towards her, says he wants no part of her life as long as he lives. He seems just as upset as I do, which makes sense since he was also deceived. 

I want to forgive my wife and move on. However, I find myself so angry now and mistrustful/suspicious of her. On top of it all, she is now pregnant, so the fighting and questioning of my relationship is even more complicated. I thought I would be elated at the news of the pregnancy, but now I sometimes wish I found out about her past before this big change.

I want to believe that she will be more honest with me and something like this won’t happen again. My parents (and her parents) say we should forget about the past and focus on the future and our family. But, if I am honest, sometimes I wish I learned of her ex before the wedding so I could have backed out earlier…

I’m so confused and still angry….


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

This happened before you two marriage and she didn't sleep with him. This was 2 years ago and you are angry and upset now about it? Make sure she deletes all of his information and isn't still in contact with him. If she is being a faithful wife now and not talking to her ex or any other man then that's all you need to know. Don't bring it up and move on.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Did she ever stop contact with him? When did she tell him she was married?


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

that was then. this is now. a child is on the way. get over the anger and move on. if you can't it will become a poison in the relationship.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Wife from overseas?

Met her online?

Cheated on her then-boyfriend w/ you... and unbeknownst to either of you?

*cough* DNA the kid


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

When was the last time she had contact with him through Facebook or text?

From what you've said, I think you're overreacting a bit.

She didn't cheat on you. You two moved quickly. She was wrapping up a previous relationship.

Yeah, she absolutely should have told you that she was still in a relationship when you first started talking.

But.... she broke it off before she became intimate with you, before she agreed to marry you. And it doesn't sound like she's been in touch with him since you were married.

You've been happy for 18 months. Don't be so quick to let this spoil everything.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Wait, she had a secret face book account that was only deleted last week when you found out it existed?

And she cheated on her then-bf with you?

I would have some serious trust issues at this point, so I understand the anger.

It does not sound like there is an evidence of her cheating on you, which is good. However, the trust issue needs to be addressed.

A little counseling would be in order…and a paternity test.

Funny thing about trust…once broken it takes a good deal of effort to rebuild it.


Do not over-react though.

Ask for some kind of marriage counseling to work on trust and secrets, ask for a paternity test as a way to settle your mind about your kid so you can be stoked about it (you're going to be a dad, which is awesome!), and go from there.

Forgiveness will come, don't let the anger swallow you up.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

She stopped contact with him when I found out about their communication. He found out she was married via me messaging him.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

She was contacting him via facebook until two weeks ago. she deleted her account and he wants no more contact since he did not know the truth and feels angry.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

But.... she broke it off before she became intimate with you, before she agreed to marry you. And it doesn't sound like she's been in touch with him since you were married.

You've been happy for 18 months. Don't be so quick to let this spoil everything.[/QUOTE]

-------
She was still dating him when we spent our first month together and were intimate. 

She says she only occassionally sent him messages on facebook since we got married. She never told him she was now married.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

alte Dame said:


> Did she ever stop contact with him? When did she tell him she was married?


She only stopped contacting him when I found out about the secret communication a few weeks ago. She never told him she was married. I told her ex via email two weeks ago.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

magnificent27 said:


> She only stopped contacting him when I found out about the secret communication a few weeks ago. She never told him she was married. I told her ex via email two weeks ago.


OK that is a red flag. rather a large one.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Happilymarried25 said:


> This happened before you two marriage and she didn't sleep with him. This was 2 years ago and you are angry and upset now about it? Make sure she deletes all of his information and isn't still in contact with him. If she is being a faithful wife now and not talking to her ex or any other man then that's all you need to know. Don't bring it up and move on.


I'm upset because I just found out. I'm working on moving on and focusing on the marriage and our future.

I think she deleted her facebook she used with him. He has indicated he wants no involvement now that he knows he was lied to.

Thanks for your advice!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You have to understand who you married. She manipulated you both to see which deal would be better. She was cheating on her bf with you by getting on a dating site in the first place.

You might not be her first rodeo.

She was looking to trade up on her bf and didn't give a second thought to cheating on him if it meant improving her chances with someone else. She is at least guilty of an EA on you.

Your wife has pretty low character.

She is a proven cheater to improve her situation.

She cheated on her bf with an EA/PA with you and on you with an EA.

Understand fully who you married and some decisions might become clearer.

She could use some serious counseling to figure out what is flawed in her that she thinks playing both of you was fine as long as she benefits.

She is very self oriented and a cheater.

I would be very concerned about her behavior.

Maybe she can get help to overcome her infidelity and manipulation.

She should understand that her behavior warrants no trust and could even threaten her marriage to you.

She needs motivation to become a better person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Maneo said:


> OK that is a red flag. rather a large one.


Big red flashing one.

Secret means of communication with an ex-bf whom she has not informed that she is now married to another man is literally the foundational pieces of starting or having an affair…

...and she only got rid of it (you think) recently.

Paternity test…like, now.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Maneo said:


> OK that is a red flag. rather a large one.


I find the secret communication and omission of the fact she was married troubling and confusing. 

I'm trying hard to forgive, but I just don't understand the motivation for her to keep him in contact while not being truthful


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

magnificent27 said:


> She was contacting him via facebook until two weeks ago. she deleted her account and he wants no more contact since he did not know the truth and feels angry.


Do I understand the facts correctly? She maintained a secret facebook relationship with the ex(?) bf all through your 18 months of marriage? Not once did she tell him she was married?

If this is correct, this is some radical deceit on the part of your wife. No wonder you are upset. It's like she was leading two separate lives.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S
DNA test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

magnificent27 said:


> But.... she broke it off before she became intimate with you, before she agreed to marry you. And it doesn't sound like she's been in touch with him since you were married.
> 
> You've been happy for 18 months. Don't be so quick to let this spoil everything
> 
> ...


Or she deletes their communications(Or uses different app)...and only kept the innocent ones. 

What kind of ex hangs around for 2 years without things going further than chatting ? Online or in person


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

magnificent27 said:


> She was still dating him when we spent our first month together and were intimate.
> 
> She says she only occassionally sent him messages on facebook since we got married. She never told him she was now married.





magnificent27 said:


> She only stopped contacting him when I found out about the secret communication a few weeks ago. She never told him she was married. I told her ex via email two weeks ago.



Yeah, that changes my answer. Sorry, I had thought she broke everything off with him.

Did she show you the history of Facebook messages with him before she deleted the account?

Has she explained why she never told him she was married?

Sounds like she was keeping him as a back up plan.

Which makes her motives for the entire marriage suspect.

Sorry, man. That sucks.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

How do you know she wasn't getting "serviced" by both of you at the same time? You can't really trust anything she is saying about this issue.

Did her bf talk to you about a timeline? Did you compare notes?

She was very likely having a PA on you as well as an EA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

So it sounds like you both have been lied too...perhaps in messaging him he might tell you if they were intimate...let's face it, you would rather know it all now in dealing with it and see if she is still lying to you...in return you can not just rug sweep this incident...you both need to face reality and she need to you that you lost complete trust in her and that the only way you will get past this is that she needs to provide COMPLETE transparency....because i tell you this and listen carefully ...years will move on and one day when the kids are in school she will have some idle time and some one new will spark her interest and she will go secret again...until you find out....and all of this will come back...so DON"T RUG SWEEP IT and that includes her.


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> How do you know she wasn't getting "serviced" by both of you at the same time?



From the OP:

"According to her ex-boyfriend, who is now furious he was cheated-on, the last time they were sexual with each other was May 2013, before I arrived. "


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She was comparing the two of you like watermelons at the store, and she picked you. She cheated on him before breaking up with him, but then continued in secret contact with him all this time. That is a pretty sh!tty thing to do to both of you. 

Get you and her into some counseling. Make it very clear you do not put up with her lying and keeping in contact with old boyfriends. This seems to be a patter with Asian women from overseas. They seem to have very poor boundaries.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Icey181 said:


> Big red flashing one.
> 
> Secret means of communication with an ex-bf whom she has not informed that she is now married to another man is literally the foundational pieces of starting or having an affair…
> 
> ...


He lives 4,000 miles away so I'm not worried about a test now...


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Absurdist said:


> Do I understand the facts correctly? She maintained a secret facebook relationship with the ex(?) bf all through your 18 months of marriage? Not once did she tell him she was married?
> 
> If this is correct, this is some radical deceit on the part of your wife. No wonder you are upset. It's like she was leading two separate lives.


Correct. She did not see him since they were on separate continents after our marriage. He found about her marriage when I emailed him.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

She has been stringing him along this whole time. I know you don't want to hear this, but what she has done with him is the definition of an emotional affair (EA). I would class it as an EA only because he is so far away. Otherwise, I don't doubt that it would still be physical.

In my opinion, she has been cheating on you. She has had a clandestine relationship with her bf while married to you.

I'm sorry, but I can't see how this is a small bump in the road. You have to embark on real reconciliation with a person who has not been honest with you. You are a betrayed spouse.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> How do you know she wasn't getting "serviced" by both of you at the same time? You can't really trust anything she is saying about this issue.
> 
> Did her bf talk to you about a timeline? Did you compare notes?
> 
> ...


He gave me a timeline and was shocked that she hid not only her time with me, but the engagement as well. He said he wants no more contact with her and does not want her involved in his life.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

alte Dame said:


> She has been stringing him along this whole time. I know you don't want to hear this, but what she has done with him is the definition of an emotional affair (EA). I would class it as an EA only because he is so far away. Otherwise, I don't doubt that it would still be physical.
> 
> In my opinion, she has been cheating on you. She has had a clandestine relationship with her bf while married to you.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I can't see how this is a small bump in the road. You have to embark on real reconciliation with a person who has not been honest with you. You are a betrayed spouse.


my fear is that this will happen again in a few years time, either on an emotional level or physical level. I'm not sure what to do since we argued so much already and it led to nowhere other than continuous apologies.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

magnificent27 said:


> He lives 4,000 miles away so I'm not worried about a test now...


Don't be so naive... it could be that _neither_ of you is the father.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You have said that you want to look to a future together, but you are on this thread now reading the opinions of others. Are you on the fence about staying with her?

If you want to try to keep things together, I think you need total honesty from her. The problem is that she has never been honest with you. I don't know how you can be certain that you achieve that.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

magnificent27 said:


> my fear is that this will happen again in a few years time, either on an emotional level or physical level. I'm not sure what to do since we argued so much already and it led to nowhere other than continuous apologies.


The problem is that apologies are just words, and her actions show her as a person who lies and cheats, so how would you know if she really does regret her actions, or if she is just lying again?

The fact that it wasn't even by her choice to tell the truth in the end, it only happened because you snooped doesn't help matters. At any point did she think, "I should not be doing this, I will come clean"?

What guarantees do you have that she won't do this in future? Just her word, and you already know that's meaningless, at this point.

I think you should both go to marriage counseling. It's possible that with some hard work from both of you, you could find a way past this, and if she is not a completely lost cause, it's possible she may learn to be a better person. It's something she needs to do anyway because soon she will be a mother, and deceitful isn't a particularly good character trait to pass on to your children.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Don't be so naive... it could be that _neither_ of you is the father.


That was my point as well. She has been cheating on you and her bf for your entire relationship.

She is a cheater. Not a former cheater, a current, continuous cheater for every moment you have known her.

DNA test. You cannot trust your wife.

You don't even know her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You're sitting on a time bomb, man. It's not a question _if_ it blows, but _when._

Be very, very careful with this one.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Yea,
First of, you have every right to look into her phone.
Second, shame on her for not disclosing her relationship.
Third, she chose you!

If she dumped this all on you the night before marriage, would you be married today?

Best of luck to you bro, she's a Woman, your wife, forgive her.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

gouge_away said:


> Yea,
> First of, you have every right to look into her phone.
> Second, shame on her for not disclosing her relationship.
> Third, she chose you!
> ...


I'm not sure what I would have done the night before the marriage... If I found out a few months before marriage I would have walked away without looking back.

But the reality I have to find a new normal and make the best of what I have now. Trust will be an issue, but hopefully that will come with time.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

alte Dame said:


> You have said that you want to look to a future together, but you are on this thread now reading the opinions of others. Are you on the fence about staying with her?
> 
> If you want to try to keep things together, I think you need total honesty from her. The problem is that she has never been honest with you. I don't know how you can be certain that you achieve that.


yeah, I went to this forum for some different perspectives. My best friend knows, but that is it...

My intention is to save the marriage and talk through my doubts....
It's just hard to cope with right now...

She refuses counseling and just wants to forget about the past.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

magnificent27 said:


> I'm not sure what I would have done the night before the marriage... If I found out a few months before marriage I would have walked away without looking back.
> 
> But the reality I have to find a new normal and make the best of what I have now. *Trust will be an issue, but hopefully that will come with time.*


This is naive. Your "trust bucket" isn't going to just magically fill itself. Your wife has to do that for you.

Trust is *earned*, and primarily by NOT doing the types of things that would cause any reasonably rational person to _dis_trust; your wife has thus far failed in this regard. 



magnificent27 said:


> yeah, I went to this forum for some different perspectives. My best friend knows, but that is it...
> 
> My intention is to save the marriage and talk through my doubts....
> It's just hard to cope with right now...


And yet you can't save your marriage by yourself.

And precisely how would you go about "talking through" your doubts...?



magnificent27 said:


> She refuses counseling and just wants to forget about the past.


This indicates that she's not wiling to be held accountable for her actions. Not a good sign.

It's time for you to draw your line in the sand... and then _enforce_ it.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> This is naive. Your "trust bucket" isn't going to just magically fill itself. Your wife has to do that for you.
> 
> Trust is *earned*, and primarily by NOT doing the types of things that would cause any reasonably rational person to _dis_trust; your wife has thus far failed in this regard.
> 
> ...


I meant trust would need to be built over time by her actions. It is a matter of her proving she can be trusted...

As far as counseling, i hope we can go there when things cool off a bit. An outside mediator is reallyimportant at this point.

Thanx for your sincere and blunt feedback!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Total honesty from her now would be her saying this:

"I was testing you out because I was looking for something better than my boyfriend at the time. If you didn't work out I would have dropped you, gone back to him but continued to look. Since you worked out, I decided to make sure before letting him down. I know that it was selfish but I was looking after my best interests at the time and so lying and cheating on him was justified. I fully realise how horrible my behaviour was. I am truly sorry and hope that I have become a better person."

Anything less would mean she still has the selfish and deceitful streak in her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dude. You don't even have a marriage to save.

Do you even comprehend that she has been cheating on you and her bf for every second of time you have known her?

You might want to start over.

You truly do not know who you are married to.

Keep treating this like a regular relationship with problems and it will blow up in your face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

Dna test. You married a woman, your story may be unique to you, but it is fairly typical to many. When things cool off, find a counseler who specializes in infidelity. She could probably use individual counseling as well. Trust but verify going forward, dna test is the first step.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

magnificent27 said:


> yeah, I went to this forum for some different perspectives. My best friend knows, but that is it...
> 
> My intention is to save the marriage and talk through my doubts....
> It's just hard to cope with right now...
> ...


Are you Asian? Where do you live? Where are you from? It is difficult for us to help.you assess your situation without some basic background. Is she Korean, Filipina, Japanese? Where is she from? I guarantee she would not be on this site snooping so it should be safe for you to tell us.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

hmmmm....

Is she 'pregnant' now... so that you'll have something to focus on instead of you seeing if she's contacting the ex??

Has she been to doctor to confirm the pregnancy? Just wondering if the pregnancy 'occurred' after you found out she was having an emotional affair with another man?

Full disclosure on her part needs forthcoming. She needs to give you passwords to all devices, and you need to get paternity test as soon as viable in the pregnancy.

If shes not really pregnant (then you know how manipulative she is!), and ditch her ASAP.
If she is pregnant, and she does one move of conact with any other man (the ex, or if she's fishing for a new "online" boyfriend), then kick her out and only be a father to the fetus.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Chelle D said:


> hmmmm....
> 
> Is she 'pregnant' now... so that you'll have something to focus on instead of you seeing if she's contacting the ex??
> 
> ...


9weeks pregnant. found out last week when we went to confirm with a doctor.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Are you Asian? Where do you live? Where are you from? It is difficult for us to help.you assess your situation without some basic background. Is she Korean, Filipina, Japanese? Where is she from? I guarantee she would not be on this site snooping so it should be safe for you to tell us.


She is from Vietnam. I'm caucasian. We live in the United States


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

magnificent27 said:


> She was contacting him via facebook until two weeks ago. she deleted her account and he wants no more contact since he did not know the truth and feels angry.


Did she live in the same country as he? the same city?

She moved to your country (USA?) when she married you, right? 

Why did he think that she moved to your country? What explanation did she give him?


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Did she live in the same country as he? the same city?
> 
> She moved to your country (USA?) when she married you, right?
> 
> Why did he think that she moved to your country? What explanation did she give him?


they both lived in Vietnam. She never told him she moved the U.S. They just communicated online


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

magnificent27 said:


> they both lived in Vietnam. She never told him she moved the U.S. They just communicated online


How regularly did she communicate with him online after your marriage?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,

Man to man I'm going to explain why 'sucking it up and moving on is dangerous'. 

If there isn't some tangible consequence for all this deception, than she will believe you are weak. That's just reality. She won't ever say that, but she'll believe it. That doesn't mean she WILL do this again. It does mean she's more likely to do it again. 

You are approaching this as if you have only two options:
1. Divorce her
2. Accept it and move on

That's not correct. You are completely within your rights to insist on counseling as a condition of continuing the marriage. 

If she's truly remorseful that she hurt you, she will accept this. If she's only sorry she got caught, she'll refuse. And that tells you that she doesn't value the marriage/love you. 

The other option you need to discuss with a lawyer is a post nuptial agreement. It doesn't have to be harsh, but it should be clear. 

I wish you luck. The fact that she kept stringing him on as her Plan B guy without telling him she was married is a very bad sign. 

You are clearly in love with her. So why did she keep a 'Plan B' guy on speed dial? 

And THAT is what counseling is for. Not to beat her up about WHAT she did. It's done. Can't change that. But to understand WHY she did it. 

Good luck

QUOTE=magnificent27;13150513]yeah, I went to this forum for some different perspectives. My best friend knows, but that is it...

My intention is to save the marriage and talk through my doubts....
It's just hard to cope with right now...

She refuses counseling and just wants to forget about the past.[/QUOTE]


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Mag,
> 
> Man to man I'm going to explain why 'sucking it up and moving on is dangerous'.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

magnificent27 said:


> From late May through the end of July we spent every day together.
> 
> .....
> 
> We were apart from September 2013 until our wedding December 2013.


So, apart from your skyping, you really only spent a little over 2 months physically together before you were married? Is that right? 

That is not nearly enough time to really know someone... In person.

I'd also recommend you make sure the child is yours.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,

This next bit is VERY important. More so than what I already suggested. 

Under no circumstances are you to question the paternity of the child. First of all, it's almost certainly yours. You two were very active sexually. 

And it's a toxic question that you can never take back. 

If you have any doubt, you can do a cheek swab of the baby right after birth without saying a word to your wife. If the child isn't yours, you will have rock solid grounds for legally ending the marriage. 

I'm only saying this because ONLY bad things can come from you questioning paternity at this point. No matter what she says, you won't know anything until you do a DNA test. 





magnificent27 said:


> they both lived in Vietnam. She never told him she moved the U.S. They just communicated online


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

So he should be worried about showing a woman that has done nothing but lie and cheat since the moment he met her that he doesn't trust her?

Isn't that like worrying about shaving after you have been decapitated?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I think she strung him along because she feels ashamed.

She left a less financially secure man for a far more secure future.

She probably loved him until the day you found out.

She's a coward, and can't fully digest her own choice.

Anyhow, you fvcked up, so did I, but my marriage was hell from the moment we moved in together, yours seemed great until you found this out.

What you and I have in common is that we moved too quickly, we never established a foundation of trust, we never took the time to build companionate love and acted on romantic love.

She moved so quick with you she didn't have enough time to uncleave, she's embarrassed or ashamed that she ****ed this guy over so bad by deserting him that she strung him along.

My advice, well, now you know, and its time to build trust... take the time to build a foundation with her while the baby is cooking, and when that baby pops out its your new wedding day, that is the day both of you settle on the foundation of trust and respect.

Counseling, transparency, join a church, be a loving forgiving husband, somebody she respects. And your marriage will be a success.

I know people that had on off on off again relationships for years, some started in grade school, but eventually they matured, and respected each other as adults, and they now have rock solid marriages.

Fools rush in, you and I are fools. But that doesn't mean we can't learn from our mistakes and give it our all. If things don't work out, cut your losses, but she seems remorseful, its early on, your both young and foolish, don't rug sweep, acknowledge what just happened, and fvcking fight it.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Conan,

Why ask a 'proven liar' a a toxic question when you can get a 100% certain answer right after the babies birth? 

How does it help him? Even if she is unsure of the babies paternity she will lie. Anyone would. But if she's certain it's his - he's just destabilized the marriage even further. 

But how does that help him? She can say she's certain. But at this point, he's either certain in his gut or he can Become certain in about 8 months. 



QUOTE=ConanHub;13153121]So he should be worried about showing a woman that has done nothing but lie and cheat since the moment he met her that he doesn't trust her?

Isn't that like worrying about shaving after you have been decapitated?
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> How regularly did she communicate with him online after your marriage?


About every three months via facebook. It was long distance (across continents) so it was exclusively electRonic after the marriage and her move to the US.


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Mag,
> 
> Man to man I'm going to explain why 'sucking it up and moving on is dangerous'.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Post-nup is a great idea. Counseling is something we need asap.

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Satya said:


> So, apart from your skyping, you really only spent a little over 2 months physically together before you were married? Is that right?
> 
> That is not nearly enough time to really know someone... In person.
> 
> I'd also recommend you make sure the child is yours.


Yes, I jumped into marriage sooooo fast. Can't change that now. we are still learning about each other, good and bad....


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

gouge_away said:


> I think she strung him along because she feels ashamed.
> 
> She left a less financially secure man for a far more secure future.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the honest and sincere feedback. Hearing such advice makes me realize we are only beginning to build something from a very screwed up foundation. I have enough pride to not just let it go and "move on," but also enough rational reflection here to try and build from here and find some strength in all of this... counseling is necessary and needed asap. A post-nup may be an option...
the dna test is something I want, but discreetly...

I don't want to throw in the towel just yet. I may be beaten down and feeling discouraged and confused, but I want to see if there is any chance of things imporving to the point where we can be happy again.


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Conan,
> 
> Why ask a 'proven liar' a a toxic question when you can get a 100% certain answer right after the babies birth?
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I will be discreet after the kid is born. I am almost 100 percent certain it is mine, but my judgement hasn't exactly been great since this all started. 
I have enough to argue about now and I don't see a point in asking her with all the patterns of deception already...


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Total honesty from her now would be her saying this:
> 
> "I was testing you out because I was looking for something better than my boyfriend at the time. If you didn't work out I would have dropped you, gone back to him but continued to look. Since you worked out, I decided to make sure before letting him down. I know that it was selfish but I was looking after my best interests at the time and so lying and cheating on him was justified. I fully realise how horrible my behaviour was. I am truly sorry and hope that I have become a better person."
> 
> Anything less would mean she still has the selfish and deceitful streak in her.


Yes may as well call her miss hypergamy sizing up the next best option.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

magnificent27 said:


> Thanks for the honest and sincere feedback. Hearing such advice makes me realize we are only beginning to build something from a very screwed up foundation. I have enough pride to not just let it go and "move on," but also enough rational reflection here to try and build from here and find some strength in all of this... counseling is necessary and needed asap. A post-nup may be an option...
> the dna test is something I want, but discreetly...
> 
> I don't want to throw in the towel just yet. I may be beaten down and feeling discouraged and confused, but I want to see if there is any chance of things imporving to the point where we can be happy again.


She doesn't have to know you go to a drug store and get one and for about another $130 you mail the swab in and have it sent to your work address if possible.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

magnificent27 said:


> I will be discreet after the kid is born. I am almost 100 percent certain it is mine, but my judgement hasn't exactly been great since this all started.
> I have enough to argue about now and I don't see a point in asking her with all the patterns of deception already...


You're going to discretely do a dna check after you sign your life away on that birth certificate? You need to find out if your state allows a challenge after the fact. If not, do not sign it until you have the dna test results in hand and are sure of your paternity.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> I will be discreet after the kid is born. I am almost 100 percent certain it is mine, but my judgement hasn't exactly been great since this all started.
> I have enough to argue about now and I don't see a point in asking her with all the patterns of deception already...


You're going to discretely do a dna check after you sign your life away on that birth certificate? You need to find out if your state allows a challenge after the fact. If not, do not sign it until you have the dna test results in hand and are sure of your paternity.[/QUOTE]

Sh!t he's dead on about that though SOME states have been giving a grace period but it varies.
So...
Get some legal advice.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

tom67 said:


> You're going to discretely do a dna check after you sign your life away on that birth certificate? You need to find out if your state allows a challenge after the fact. If not, do not sign it until you have the dna test results in hand and are sure of your paternity.


Sh!t he's dead on about that though SOME states have been giving a grace period but it varies.
So...
Get some legal advice.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this very important information. I need to speak to an attorney about several things... this will be one area to bring up!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,

I've been married 25 years. Overall it's been an excellent marriage. That said, it got even better a few years back when we went to marriage counseling. 

The MC told us that anger is a secondary emotion. It's the result of either hurt or fear. Hurt and fear are 'primary' emotions. 

One of the most lovable traits in a man is strength. Physical strength and emotional strength. 

That means that the absence of anger -> implies the absence of hurt or fear -> implies emotional strength 

The reason I explained all that is: You need to ensure that you stay calm in this critical period going forward. 

She refuses counseling. You don't get even a little angry. Very calm voice, you tell her that you really are going to miss her, and that she'll have the divorce papers within a week. And then get up and tell her you are heading out to the gym. And then go to the gym. 

Oh - and purchase a voice activated recorder (VAR). Or buy a VAR 
app for your smart phone to record all these conversations. That way if she decides to lie and say you are threatening her....

Same thing if you decide to do the post nup. Though in that case, you need to see the lawyer and get it drafted before mentioning it. 

If she sees you are calm, she will believe you mean what you say. If she sees you angry, that will lower her respect for you, and increase the chance she will play chicken with you. 

As far as counseling. If she asks you 'why' it's necessary. Just stick with this: 
1. It will help us better understand each other
2. It's important to me

She may play the culture card. Vietnamese don't believe in counseling. Just smile and say: Counseling is the path to me forgiving your betrayal. If you aren't willing to go, I accept that. You just need to accept that our marriage will end over that choice. 

In a good marriage (2) is a big deal. It drives a LOT of behavior. 

If M2 says: Will you do this, it's important to me? 
My answer is almost always an immediate yes. 

And if she plays chicken on the divorce angle. Move out of the bedroom and do a hard 180 while the lawyer is drawing up the papers. You can google the rules for a 180. It works. 

A couple days of a true 180 will bring even a strong stomached gambler to their senses.....


I will be discreet after the kid is born. I am almost 100 percent certain it is mine, but my judgement hasn't exactly been great since this all started. 
I have enough to argue about now and I don't see a point in asking her with all the patterns of deception already...[/QUOTE]


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

magnificent27 said:


> Sh!t he's dead on about that though SOME states have been giving a grace period but it varies.
> So...
> Get some legal advice.


Thanks for this very important information. I need to speak to an attorney about several things... this will be one area to bring up![/QUOTE]

Mag google paternity laws in your state now to get an unofficial idea of what to expect.
If you don't want to reveal what state you are in that's fine.
If you do many others way smarter than me can provide relevant links.
Best of luck man.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nucking,

This is a very good point. 



QUOTE=Nucking Futs;13153329]I will be discreet after the kid is born. I am almost 100 percent certain it is mine, but my judgement hasn't exactly been great since this all started. 
I have enough to argue about now and I don't see a point in asking her with all the patterns of deception already...[/QUOTE]

You're going to discretely do a dna check after you sign your life away on that birth certificate? You need to find out if your state allows a challenge after the fact. If not, do not sign it until you have the dna test results in hand and are sure of your paternity.[/QUOTE]


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Nucking,
> 
> This is a very good point.
> 
> ...


You're going to discretely do a dna check after you sign your life away on that birth certificate? You need to find out if your state allows a challenge after the fact. If not, do not sign it until you have the dna test results in hand and are sure of your paternity.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,

Do you workout? Are you fit?







magnificent27 said:


> Sh!t he's dead on about that though SOME states have been giving a grace period but it varies.
> So...
> Get some legal advice.


Thanks for this very important information. I need to speak to an attorney about several things... this will be one area to bring up![/QUOTE]


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Conan,
> 
> Why ask a 'proven liar' a a toxic question when you can get a 100% certain answer right after the babies birth?
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I'm cut a certain way. I'm straight forward, blunt and very direct.

I do not beat around the bush or feel it necessary to sneak around dishonest people.

People know exactly where they stand with me no matter what games they might play.


I also do not give advice I am not willing to take.

This woman needs to know exactly where she stands and being considered trustworthy at all after lying and cheating for her entire relationship with Mag is weak.

A manipulator like this needs to see that her dipshyt player attitude isn't cute or acceptable in the least.

For a man she has been playing for their entire relationship to display trust unwarranted will not inspire respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Conan,

I understand your logic, but there's a method to my madness. 


It's actually pretty rare for a woman to be having an intense sexual relationship with their H and ALSO be having sex with someone else. It happens, but it's fairly uncommon. 

And based on what her ex boyfriend told Mag, once she and Mag got engaged, she stopped sleeping with the ex even though Mag was on another continent. 

Those two data points persuade me that the odds she had a PA are very low. And the odds that the other guy got her pregnant - super low. 

False accusations are hurtful whether or not the person in question has done other stuff. 



I'm cut a certain way. I'm straight forward, blunt and very direct.

I do not beat around the bush or feel it necessary to sneak around dishonest people.

People know exactly where they stand with me no matter what games they might play.


I also do not give advice I am not willing to take.

This woman needs to know exactly where she stands and being considered trustworthy at all after lying and cheating for her entire relationship with Mag is weak.

A manipulator like this needs to see that her dipshyt player attitude isn't cute or acceptable in the least.

For a man she has been playing for their entire relationship to display trust unwarranted will not inspire respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Conan,
> 
> I understand your logic, but there's a method to my madness.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I am no convinced at all that she was involved with a PA. I am convinced that she is as trustworthy as a scorpion on cocaine.

Out of control anger is nothing to respect.

Disciplined, controlled anger is both worthy of respect and is incredibly effective in subduing an adversarial attitude.

I agree with your advice for his course of direction otherwise.

I would let her know, in no uncertain terms, that she has done nothing to inspire trust and I was not a man that could be trifled with.

She would get in gear or get out. Life is too short to put up with such dishonesty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The thing is Conan, you are highly effective at conflict and combat. Most folks aren't. 

You can do the controlled anger thing - it's a skill. 

Mag might be better suited just staying totally calm, instead of trying to do controlled anger and not staying totally in control. Especially if/when she starts trying to rile him up. 


I am no convinced at all that she was involved with a PA. I am convinced that she is as trustworthy as a scorpion on cocaine.

Out of control anger is nothing to respect.

Disciplined, controlled anger is both worthy of respect and is incredibly effective in subduing an adversarial attitude.

I agree with your advice for his course of direction otherwise.

I would let her know, in no uncertain terms, that she has done nothing to inspire trust and I was not a man that could be trifled with.

She would get in gear or get out. Life is too short to put up with such dishonesty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> The thing is Conan, you are highly effective at conflict and combat. Most folks aren't.
> 
> You can do the controlled anger thing - it's a skill.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

LOL! Ok. I accept that premise. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

You can request a PT from the hospital at birth, tell them you want it discreetly, they call you, you go in and pick up the results in person.

If they don't already, request that the screen show up as "lab services" on the bill.

Most state vital records give you 1 year from birth to adjust certificates for corrections.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Also, make sure your post-nup is drawn up by a reputable attorney. You specifically want to ensure that it can't be overturned later due to her having signed it under "duress".

If she refuses to go with a post-nup I recommend going straight to divorce and save yourself the legal entanglements a long term marriage brings. Just don't let her know this, hence the whole "duress" argument.

+1 on the paternity test.

If it wasn't for the pregnancy I would tell you to head straight for the exit. You shouldn't have to be dealing with this garbage, especially just one year in.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ripper raises an excellent point. 

Mag,
Add this to your list of lawyer questions. 

I actually believe that she may have a strong case for the future unraveling any post nup on grounds of duress.

Does she have a job?

Are you past the point where a divorce might result in her being deported? 





Ripper said:


> Also, make sure your post-nup is drawn up by a reputable attorney. You specifically want to ensure that it can't be overturned later due to her having signed it under "duress".
> 
> If she refuses to go with a post-nup I recommend going straight to divorce and save yourself the legal entanglements a long term marriage brings. Just don't let her know this, hence the whole "duress" argument.
> 
> ...


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Ripper raises an excellent point.
> 
> Mag,
> Add this to your list of lawyer questions.
> ...


She has a job and green card. The U.S. is her home now.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Update--

Lots of arguing and conversations for the past two days...

I made it clear that any cheating in the future will result in immediate separation and divorce proceedings to follow. She agreed. 

We are looking for a marriage counselor and will start sometime next week. She needs to hear from a 3rd party that this is not normal or right. It will also allow for me to vent without it turning into an argument all the time.

Seeing a lawyer to discuss post-nup.. This will be tricky and sensitive, but what I want...

PT test will be requested at hospital at time of birth. I'm not even going to be discreet on this one...

Will all these measures make everything perfect and all the **** go away? Of course not. I know I have an uphill climb on this one and need to do all I can to make the best of it without sweeping it under the carpet and just hoping crazy deception doesnt happen again...

The forum has been very helpful. Thanks all!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Keep us updated, if anything, reporting progress ensures that you keep on the ball and in action.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,

Have you remained calm during these arguments?

Cannot emphasize enough how critical that is. 





magnificent27 said:


> Update--
> 
> Lots of arguing and conversations for the past two days...
> 
> ...


----------



## confusedgirl20 (Jul 21, 2015)

I do agree that it was in the past, and she was probably just wrapping up an old relationship. It makes it better that she never physically cheated on you after May when you came to see her. Yes it's shady and sad the way she went about it - making a fake Facebook account and all shows like she went too far in trying to hide it. It wasn't just an omission but something she actively concealed and lied about - which is why I can understand the hurt and trust issues. Just try to move forward and forget about it and see if time heals that pain.

Give her a new chance since she has not lied to you or cheated on you since then. You both could be happy together and get over this. If she keeps up the lying and secretive behavior in the future - then it would be time to examine what you want to do.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,

Here's the part that you will struggle with the most. 

Letting the past go and instead steadily, firmly and relentlessly encouraging her to be honest with you. 

Her old BF - most likely she stayed in touch because she loved him. Don't yell at her for how she felt. Just make the point that the only way to get over someone you love, is through NC. 

The reason a lot of marriage end up full of lies is because someone in the marriage can handle the truth very well. 






magnificent27 said:


> Update--
> 
> Lots of arguing and conversations for the past two days...
> 
> ...


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Mag,
> 
> Have you remained calm during these arguments?
> 
> Cannot emphasize enough how critical that is.


It is difficult for me to remain calm because she always tries to end the arguments fast, without listening and says things like, "ok, I was wrong and I want to move on" or "please don't always bring this up." I struggle to remain calm, which is one reason I want dialog with a counselor present....

mornings are when I feel like my mind is racing with anger and confusion... I tend to avoid her during these hours so I can gather my thoughts and think more rationally...

Today, for example, I kept thinking about her messaging him in October 2013 while I was lonely, far-away on another continent , and really missing her so much at that time. I wanted at that moment today to go back in time--knowing what I know now -- and get out of the relationship... I imagined telling her to wrap-up her relationship before playing with a man's mind...

hours later my thoughts were focused on how great the last 9 months have been and how I need to find a path to forgiveness...

Rollercoaster of emotions the last few weeks...


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Mag,
> 
> Here's the part that you will struggle with the most.
> 
> ...


I have always struggled with dwelling about negative things-- work, old friendships, and now this challenge in my marriage. I think counseling is my only healthy way to letting go of the anger and sense of betrayal...


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Mag,
> Her old BF - most likely she stayed in touch because she loved him. Don't yell at her for how she felt. Just make the point that the only way to get over someone you love, is through NC.


My experience with women is that, once they detach from you and latch on to a new man, you are history. She doesn't give you a second thought. 

I have had girlfriends tell me at breakup that they will always love me...blah...blah. Its all a crock. A lie they tell to make us and them feel better. Problem is female psychology doesn't work that way. Usually women only carry a torch for an ex when they were the one who was dumped. If they are the dumper, they move on as if the guy never existed. 

By never going no contact with the ex boyfriend she was not able to detach fully and latch onto Mag. She was never "all-in", even though she told him she was. That is what scares me, because the window of opportunity to truly fall in love with her husband is long past. Mag is now relegated to a Plan B forever.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You keep dumping all this negative emotion on her and you will destroy the marriage. Might take a while, but it will happen.

And FWIW - this has nothing to do with fairness. And everything to do with strength. She will come to see you as weak - and then it will be over. 






magnificent27 said:


> It is difficult for me to remain calm because she always tries to end the arguments fast, without listening and says things like, "ok, I was wrong and I want to move on" or "please don't always bring this up." I struggle to remain calm, which is one reason I want dialog with a counselor present....
> 
> mornings are when I feel like my mind is racing with anger and confusion... I tend to avoid her during these hours so I can gather my thoughts and think more rationally...
> 
> ...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

No

The guy in Nam is plan B. 

She's been very sexual with Mag - very rare for someone to fake that for a year or so.....



QUOTE=bandit.45;13179025]My experience with women is that, once they detach from you and latch on to a new man, you are history. She doesn't give you a second thought. 

I have had girlfriends tell me at breakup that they will always love me...blah...blah. Its all a crock. A lie they tell to make us and them feel better. Problem is female psychology doesn't work that way. Usually women only carry a torch for an ex when they were the one who was dumped. If they are the dumper, they move on as if the guy never existed. 

By never going no contact with the ex boyfriend she was not able to detach fully and latch onto Mag. She was never "all-in", even though she told him she was. That is what scares me, because the window of opportunity to truly fall in love with her husband is long past. Mag is now relegated to a Plan B forever.[/QUOTE]


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> No
> 
> The guy in Nam is plan B.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


I think she had a hard time letting go of the ex, obviously, and wanted to keep some contact with him as a way of not letting go of "what could have been"...
In our most recent argument she said since marrying and living with me she has realized how lucky she is... I believe she is telling me the truth, but I still don't understand why she still talked to the ex and never told him of her new happy life. 

I think I was "plan B" when I came into her life and became "plan A" after we married and lived together. Her attachment to me grew out of time together, but still odd and ****** -up manner she still wanted to hold on to memories of the ex.


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> You keep dumping all this negative emotion on her and you will destroy the marriage. Might take a while, but it will happen.
> 
> And FWIW - this has nothing to do with fairness. And everything to do with strength. She will come to see you as weak - and then it will be over.


I am working to stay positive and not bring any of it up right now. Counseling will be the time for the conversations. I feel my day is better if I distract myself--ie workout or read--when the thoughts/details creep into my mind.

Night when I try to sleep and when I wake are the worst parts of my day. Too many racing/conflicting thoughts...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,

You need individual counseling (IC) to deal with your generalized anxiety issues. 

It's a huge mistake to use MC as a vehicle for dumping a mountain of anxiety on your wife. Instead, MC should be the place where you try to understand WHY she wanted to keep her ex around as a Plan B. Is she still in love with him? 

Was she afraid things wouldn't work out with you? 

As for why she didn't tell him about you - that's easy. Because she knew he would walk away if she did that. To keep him as a Plan B guy, she needed him to have at least some hope. 

The question is not: why didn't she tell him about you

But rather: why did she feel the need to have a Plan B guy at all

You might want to consider getting some pharmaceutical help to assist you through the near term. Anti anxiety meds. 





magnificent27 said:


> I am working to stay positive and not bring any of it up right now. Counseling will be the time for the conversations. I feel my day is better if I distract myself--ie workout or read--when the thoughts/details creep into my mind.
> 
> Night when I try to sleep and when I wake are the worst parts of my day. Too many racing/conflicting thoughts...


----------



## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Woman here and married for 35 years (first marriage for my husband and I). You are Plan B for this woman. Her ex did not commit marriage to her. You came along and offered security. She continued to be in touch with him and did not tell him that she already married because in her heart she loved him. It is her way of keeping him in her life. You found out and she got busted. Now, she appears remorseful but she is not as she refused counseling.

She is now pregnant and you are besides yourself because she took away your choice of not being married to her. Do not rugsweep her behavior, pregnant or not. You do not seem like a Beta male to me. You need to see a psychologist to set your mind in the right way. You will know the answer once you are in the right track and out of your shock element.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Roselyn said:


> Woman here and married for 35 years (first marriage for my husband and I). You are Plan B for this woman. Her ex did not commit marriage to her. You came along and offered security. She continued to be in touch with him and did not tell him that she already married because in her heart she loved him. It is her way of keeping him in her life. You found out and she got busted. Now, she appears remorseful but she is not as she refused counseling.
> 
> She is now pregnant and you are besides yourself because she took away your choice of not being married to her. Do not rugsweep her behavior, pregnant or not. You do not seem like a Beta male to me. You need to see a psychologist to set your mind in the right way. You will know the answer once you are in the right track and out of your shock element.



I don't feel that she is really remorseful. I think she knows she was busted and just wants it to all disappear.

The pregnancy makes it all the more complicated. Last night I thought how much easier it would be to walk away from all of this mess if it weren't for this major life change... Just thinking that made me realize that I am holding on to this because of the pregnancy, not an intense desire to save the marriage. 

I agree I need to see a therapist... alone. 

thanks.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,

She lacks remorse because she lacks respect for you. And that is likely because you are too nice. 

I bet you are the one who is almost always the first one to say:  I love you 

That's actually way more destructive of respect than it seems on the surface. And the reason is that subconsciously she starts to hear: ILY - as a question not a statement 

And typically the person who almost never says it first, is correct. It is a question. The question is: Do you love me.

This type of 'chasing' behavior is driven by a desire for reassurance. It's the most common subtly toxic thing that anxious people do. 

It kills respect slowly but surely. And without respect, there is no true remorse. 

I have a whole thread on this somewhere. I call it the thermostat thread. 





magnificent27 said:


> I don't feel that she is really remorseful. I think she knows she was busted and just wants it to all disappear.
> 
> The pregnancy makes it all the more complicated. Last night I thought how much easier it would be to walk away from all of this mess if it weren't for this major life change... Just thinking that made me realize that I am holding on to this because of the pregnancy, not an intense desire to save the marriage.
> 
> ...


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Mag,
> 
> She lacks remorse because she lacks respect for you. And that is likely because you are too nice.
> 
> ...


Wow, early in our relationship I always said "I love you" first... now she seems to expect that and just repeat the words.

I will have to find that thread!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,
Thread link is below. So here's how this works for us. I'm inherently the 'warmer' partner. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that provided you aren't needy about it. 

The reason this works so well for us is twofold. 

1. My love is a give, not an ask. So when I say: ILY, or (on rare occasion) I'm IN love with you, it's not a query. It's not a mechanism for asking: do you love me? 

I love M2 - because I LOVE her - not because I NEED her. And part of what makes me so lovable to M2 is that I DON'T need her. 

So - that lack of NEED is what drives (2), which I'll simply describe as situational awareness. 

2. In the normal course of life I just do what comes naturally WRT M2. And her response to my gestures is almost always positive to very positive. That said, if she doesn't respond in a clearly positive manner, I just do LESS. Quality remains constant. Quantity is decreased. 

This means that sometimes I give M2 some space and let her come to me. And that just sort of happens naturally. 


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html






magnificent27 said:


> Wow, early in our relationship I always said "I love you" first... now she seems to expect that and just repeat the words.
> 
> I will have to find that thread!


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Roselyn said:


> Woman here and married for 35 years (first marriage for my husband and I). You are Plan B for this woman. Her ex did not commit marriage to her. You came along and offered security. She continued to be in touch with him and did not tell him that she already married because in her heart she loved him. It is her way of keeping him in her life. You found out and she got busted. Now, she appears remorseful but she is not as she refused counseling.
> 
> She is now pregnant and you are besides yourself because she took away your choice of not being married to her. Do not rugsweep her behavior, pregnant or not. You do not seem like a Beta male to me. You need to see a psychologist to set your mind in the right way. You will know the answer once you are in the right track and out of your shock element.


For two days I was feeling better about the relationship and focusing on eventually being a father. I was reminding myself of all the things I like about her, and not getting down...

I had a nightmare about cheating last night. In the dream she wasn't sorry... I woke up realizing this dream is partial reality now. She said her "sorrys" but wants it rug-sweeped and not brought up. I haven't said a thing in days and fight the urge. 

______________________
another issue:
She is now about 11.5 week pregnant. No sex since we learned about her pregnancy. She had indicated that she will probably not want sex for the duration of the pregnancy.
I actually don't want sex right now. In fact, I feel too upset to feel aroused by her sexually... and I imagine her with the ex...

Shock and anger still... confusion as well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sorry dude.

She needs to know where she stands and how much damage she has done.

She needs to own her behavior for you two to even have a chance at reconciliation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

magnificent27 said:


> For two days I was feeling better about the relationship and focusing on eventually being a father. I was reminding myself of all the things I like about her, and not getting down...
> 
> I had a nightmare about cheating last night. In the dream she wasn't sorry... I woke up realizing this dream is partial reality now. She said her "sorrys" but wants it rug-sweeped and not brought up. I haven't said a thing in days and fight the urge.
> 
> ...


You can only rug sweep this only so long. Ignoring it and only thinking positively for right now will only makes you have to deal with it later. Eventually you will have to deal with this once and for all, either you can accept all the things that she did or decide that you can't and walk away. Form what I've read so far, you seem to be really bothered bny this, as well you should be, and you should think about walking away.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> You can only rug sweep this only so long. Ignoring it and only thinking positively for right now will only makes you have to deal with it later. Eventually you will have to deal with this once and for all, either you can accept all the things that she did or decide that you can't and walk away. Form what I've read so far, you seem to be really bothered bny this, as well you should be, and you should think about walking away.


Her pregnancy is what is making me hold on...

I have therapy later this week. Total mind **** right now


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

magnificent27 said:


> Her pregnancy is what is making me hold on...
> 
> I have therapy later this week. Total mind **** right now


I suggest you have a sit-down with a lawyer, specifically one who is versed in international law. What will happen if she and you split up and she decides to skip country, go back to her home country, and take your child with her? Have you thought of that? 

If she gets back home, you will have a fat chance in hell of ever seeing your child again. Even if s/he is born here and is legally an American citizen, I don't believe the government there is under any obligation to make her give the kid back to you. 

You need to be very careful and get educated as much as possible before you make any major decisions.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Unless she falls under a high risk pregnancy, sex should not be an issue, in fact that is the time most women are more sexual aroused. i think she is giving you a line , and as for rug sweeping you should telling her right to her face that his subject does not go away until you are ready....and only you get to decide.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I have a somewhat contrarian view of this. 

My belief is the focus should be on the loss of trust. On the fact that she has behaved on an trustworthy manner. Not on his pain, but on her flawed behavior. And the reason for it. 

Mag should honestly say: Until I understand WHY you did this, I see no path to rebuilding trust. That doesn't mean the 'WHY', makes it ok. It doesn't. It may however, make it comprehensible. 

It's also perfectly fine to say: You have now used up your ONE and ONLY get out of jail free card. Any future breach of trust will result in an immediate termination of the marriage. 





ConanHub said:


> Sorry dude.
> 
> She needs to know where she stands and how much damage she has done.
> 
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> I have a somewhat contrarian view of this.
> 
> My belief is the focus should be on the loss of trust. On the fact that she has behaved on an trustworthy manner. Not on his pain, but on her flawed behavior. And the reason for it.
> 
> ...


She apparently won't even go into it with OP. She seems to just want to rug sweep her behavior and that won't work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

This is precisely why these overseas, long-distance, internet relationships/marriages have a spectacularly high failure rate.

The two of you did not know each other. At all. No matter how much you "chatted" online.

Sorry for this unfortunate situation.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If she won't go to counseling - he ought to file.

I was perfectly clear on that point at the start of the thread. 

Refusal to attend counseling = total lack of remorse = total lack of respect = zero possibility of a viable marriage

If she prefers divorce to MC - that's an unmistakable message. 







ConanHub said:


> She apparently won't even go into it with OP. She seems to just want to rug sweep her behavior and that won't work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> I have a somewhat contrarian view of this.
> 
> My belief is the focus should be on the loss of trust. On the fact that she has behaved on an trustworthy manner. Not on his pain, but on her flawed behavior. And the reason for it.
> 
> ...


I made it clear in our last conversation on the topic of what transpired that any similar type of behavior or cheating will result in divorce. I meant it, too. I will walk if I have to... 

Trust is something that will be difficult for me to have in the future. I think it will take some years before my suspicions and paranoia subside...


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> This is precisely why these overseas, long-distance, internet relationships/marriages have a spectacularly high failure rate.
> 
> The two of you did not know each other. At all. No matter how much you "chatted" online.
> 
> Sorry for this unfortunate situation.


We didn't spend enough time together and the marriage was rushed. Part of my own failing since she even suggested at one point waiting a few months.

One of my best friends met someone in Thailand a few years ago and got married very quickly. He is happy with his marriage and kids. I figured, "heck, it worked for him, why not me?"
He was fortunate...


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> If she won't go to counseling - he ought to file.
> 
> I was perfectly clear on that point at the start of the thread.
> 
> ...


She is open to it now. Not enthusiastic and she does want to rug sweep. 

It may still crash in burn eventually... who knows. I am trying to keep it going and make the best of it for the sake of our future child.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mag,
----------
You want my guess? This is the conversation you two had:

Mag: We need MC
Mag2: I'm sorry, I know what I did was wrong. Please don't make me go to MC. I will if you make me, but it will just make things worse. 

And then she mixed in some rockin hot sex. 

The carrot of sex and the stick of her working YOUR anxieties. And retreating from that implied threat means you stay married until the remainder of her respect for you disappears. 

--------
The fact that you backed down from this one, very minor consequence to her is not helping you. 

Have you made a list of questions? Have you asked her WHY she did it? Or have you simply continued to dump your anxieties on her? 





magnificent27 said:


> She is open to it now. Not enthusiastic and she does want to rug sweep.
> 
> It may still crash in burn eventually... who knows. I am trying to keep it going and make the best of it for the sake of our future child.


----------



## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Mag,
> ----------
> You want my guess? This is the conversation you two had:
> 
> ...




We haven't had sex since I found out. She's pregnant and does not want to right now. I have little desire at the moment, actually.
_____

I've asked her many times why she did it. She said in the first few months we were engaged she was confused about her feelings. Since marrying me she is certain she loves me... 
I know, it doesn't explain the secret facebook or the messages to him.
I have seen the post-wedding communication emails and facebook. It was minimal, but still there. Mostly fb comments on his posts.
The long, disturbing emails were between September and November 2013. They are the ones that hurt the most since she obviously had strong feelings for him. Communication seemed to trickle off after January 2014/wedding date. BUT still, the fact it was hidden from me, and the fact the other guy didn't know she was married is very disturbing. 

You say I backed away, but what else should I do besides counseling and tell her I will divorce if she cheats? What else should I do now?


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

magnificent27 said:


> What else should I do now?


Why did your wife and the ex-boyfriend break up in summer 2013?


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Steve1000 said:


> Why did your wife and the ex-boyfriend break up in summer 2013?


They had relationship problems dating back to December 2012. I started chatting online with her Jan 2013 and came to see her may 2013 through august 2013. She cut him off with almost no communication from May through June 2013 while I was spending everyday with her. He dumped her via in late June 2013 due to the erratic behavior-- no mention of me to him and I did not know of the bf at the time.

He was furious with her in June 2015 when he found out about all the lies and deception. He spoke to me through many emails chats and said he never wants to hear from my wife again. He said he feels bad I am in such a rough spot now...


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

magnificent27 said:


> They had relationship problems dating back to December 2012. I started chatting online with her Jan 2013 and came to see her may 2013 through august 2013. She cut him off with almost no communication from May through June 2013 while I was spending everyday with her. He dumped her via in late June 2013 due to the erratic behavior-- no mention of me to him and I did not know of the bf at the time.


My take is that you were not her 2nd choice. She at first kept in contact with him throughout 2013 because she did not know how stable the relationship with you would be. She later kept in contact with him because 1. she enjoyed communicating with him and 2. she did not want to hurt him. Yes, those two things are very wrong, but it is also a big deal that she did not sleep with him after she slept with you in 2013. She definitely had the time after you left. 

It seems that since you are married, you and her have gotten along well before you found out that she still has some communication with her ex and that she didn't tell her ex that she is now married. Therefore, the biggest problem now is lack of trust. I think that since you are already married and she is pregnant, you should allow her to build back trust by being transparent. 

Appreciate the fact that she never slept with the ex again after she met you in person. A lot of us envy you for that.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Steve1000 said:


> My take is that you were not her 2nd choice. She at first kept in contact with him throughout 2013 because she did not know how stable the relationship with you would be. She later kept in contact with him because 1. she enjoyed communicating with him and 2. she did not want to hurt him. Yes, those two things are very wrong, but it is also a big deal that she did not sleep with him after she slept with you in 2013. She definitely had the time after you left.
> 
> It seems that since you are married, you and her have gotten along well before you found out that she still has some communication with her ex and that she didn't tell her ex that she is now married. Therefore, the biggest problem now is lack of trust. I think that since you are already married and she is pregnant, you should allow her to build back trust by being transparent.
> 
> Appreciate the fact that she never slept with the ex again after she met you in person. A lot of us envy you for that.


I do appreciate that fact she had no sexual relations 
and her ex confirmed that nothing physical happened between them after they split. 

She says she is very happy in our marriage despite her communication with the ex. I am trying to understand why she kept some form of communication with the guy for so long, even if it was minimal and mostly fb. If I never learned of the ex things would seem almost perfect. Part of me wishes I never picked ip her phone and inquired...

Trust will be a long uphill battle. I feel some paranoia now but dont want to come off as suspicious all the time--that would make the marriage unbearble.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

right now...this very moment you have the right to ask several thinks, if she wants to continue this marriage.First is complete transparency, you get to see any thing she is doing no questions as for as long as you want too and when ever you want too. Second she gives you all the passwords to every email. facebook whatever accounts. Third she allows you to track her via her phone, no turning anything off. there is no dispute here, she accepts these if she wants to stay married. If she balks then you know that she plans on doing this again.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

magnificent27 said:


> I do appreciate that fact she had no sexual relations


Because you can trust her at her word, right?


> and her ex confirmed that nothing physical happened between them after they split.


And you can trust the guy she continued ****ing when you started ****ing her, right?


> She says she is very happy in our marriage despite her communication with the ex. I am trying to understand why she kept some form of communication with the guy for so long, even if it was minimal and mostly fb. If I never learned of the ex things would seem almost perfect. Part of me wishes I never picked ip her phone and inquired...


The simplest answer to both why she kept ****ing him while ****ing you and reached out to him...

Is that she missed ****ing him, and all that went along with that, right? You know that, right?


> Trust will be a long uphill battle. I feel some paranoia now but dont want to come off as suspicious all the time--that would make the marriage unbearble.


It's an uphill battle...

Because she's making you go uphill...

But you know that too, right?


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

magnificent27 said:


> I'm trying hard to forgive, but I just don't understand the motivation for her to keep him in contact while not being truthful


You cant understand it simply because you are only starting to get to know the person you rushed to marry. Obviously she is not who you thought she was, which is exactly what she wanted to appear and hence lies by omission. Keep digging until the image of her in your head aligns with the reality of who she really is. Once you are out of the fog, you will be in a better position to decide what to do. Try to treat it as a learning expoerience instead of being angry. She has the right to lie. Yoy've got the right to not be ok with that. Remember that if she cheated on her bf, she can cheat on you too. Your main issue now is a dependency on the false image of her you have developed.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

marduk said:


> Because you can trust her at her word, right?
> 
> And you can trust the guy she continued ****ing when you started ****ing her, right?
> 
> ...




I do trust her ex based on his reaction to finding out all the lies and how he responded to being cheated on. Of course I could be wrong on this feeling, too, but I'm not sure what speculating and dwelling will do for me at this point. It could just add to my already long list of things to be upset over... 

I am choosing to "go uphill" rather than walk. It is largely a motivation driven by fatherhood coming around the corner. I feel it is worth trying to keep the marriage rather than bailing-out at the first serious challenge. Will I regret it or will things improve and this will become a "difficult period" I look back on many years from now? We'll see...

BTW-- I appreciate your honest insights, even if some of the comments made me more upset over details of her past...


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

californian said:


> You cant understand it simply because you are only starting to get to know the person you rushed to marry. Obviously she is not who you thought she was, which is exactly what she wanted to appear and hence lies by omission. Keep digging until the image of her in your head aligns with the reality of who she really is. Once you are out of the fog, you will be in a better position to decide what to do. Try to treat it as a learning expoerience instead of being angry. She has the right to lie. Yoy've got the right to not be ok with that. Remember that if she cheated on her bf, she can cheat on you too. Your main issue now is a dependency on the false image of her you have developed.


My image of her now is so radically different than it was a month ago when I discovered these truths. There are moments when I feel love towards her and we are having a great time, then hours later I start thinking of all I have learned and I feel resentment and anger. Prior to all this I did not have the anger and sense of betrayal. I do worry that I could be in s position in the future where she cheats on me, just like she did with her ex...

I agree that We are now just getting to know each other... for better or worse. She has seen a side of me that she never has-- how I react when I feel betrayed. I have learned more about how she handles conflict and emotions... the question is whether these attritubes can make us compatible...

Counseling will help me at least talk these things through....
I don't have any illusions that it will make everyThing ok again and magically save the marriage. However, it could aid in my learning experience of what to NOT do in relationships and how to really understand what drives people to lie and cheat...

Like I said to another commentator, I'm choosing now to stick with this uphill battle for now...


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

You're still in the fog and with a dependency on what is emerging as a fantasy. You love a person that never existed and now desperately trying to patch up that image by trying to "understand her" and rationalize it. If you feel that you need this uphill battle, then go for it. Some need to get hurt more before accepting the demise of Eden. It's a natural process that is different for everybody and whose length is typically defined by the level of maturity. By the way, since your wife secretly stayed in contact with her ex means she's got an emotional attachment to him which is not better and in many cases even worse than just sex. This also means that you're not as "everything" to her as you may have thought you've been. The main point of going into therapy is to wise up and become more mature (which is a never-ending process for most of us). Understanding other people's motives is secondary to understanding yours. What are your true motives? What stories are you telling yourself? Are you unable to let go of the dream? Are you afraid of being alone? Are you willing to settle for the second best? Are you desperate? Are you afraid you're unlovable and won't find anybody else? Are you a love addict? Those are the questions to work on in the therapy. It's understandable that it's bugging you that you don't understand Just Why She did What She Did. Ironically, once you put yourself together and align the image with the reality you'll be able to clearly SEE it. It doesn't require much understanding, just an ability to see it and accept it which will come right after you get out of the fog.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Of course anything is possible, but I want to point out that her maintaining some facebook contact with her ex does not mean that there is still emotional attachment. For a couple of years, I kept some contact with an ex girlfriend from time to time. I had no emotional attachment to her anymore and did not want to be with her again. We only chatted about non-romantic things like science and politics. The nature of your wife's communication with her ex is what is more important. 

I'm not giving her a free pass. What she did was definitely wrong and I understand why you feel deceived. But be careful not to imagine things that may not be true. There is a fine line between being too naive and unnecessarily tormenting yourself.


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

Steve1000 said:


> Of course anything is possible, but I want to point out that her maintaining some facebook contact with her ex does not mean that there is still emotional attachment.


Scroll back to where magnificent27 is saying "The long, disturbing emails were between September and November 2013. They are the ones that hurt the most since she obviously had strong feelings for him." Seems like it was only two months before the marriage!


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

californian said:


> Scroll back to where magnificent27 is saying "The long, disturbing emails were between September and November 2013. They are the ones that hurt the most since she obviously had strong feelings for him." Seems like it was only two months before the marriage!


I see. Yea, expressing strong feelings for another guy only two months before the wedding would really suck. It doesn't make sense then (to me) why she didn't continue with her ex. If she actually did sleep with her ex after sleeping with Magnificent27, why would her jilted ex lie for her?


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

californian said:


> Scroll back to where magnificent27 is saying "The long, disturbing emails were between September and November 2013. They are the ones that hurt the most since she obviously had strong feelings for him." Seems like it was only two months before the marriage!



That is the time period that makes me most furious. It was just 2 months before our marriage...
After that time their communication was minimal. He had moved on to a new relationship and they occasionally liked each others FB posts. 
Still, she never told him she got married... she could not let go of her emotional attachment to him. He, on the other hand, indicated in an email to her in November 2013 that he hoped they could have some sort of friendship, but that he did not have romantic/love feelings for her...


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Steve1000 said:


> Of course anything is possible, but I want to point out that her maintaining some facebook contact with her ex does not mean that there is still emotional attachment. For a couple of years, I kept some contact with an ex girlfriend from time to time. I had no emotional attachment to her anymore and did not want to be with her again. We only chatted about non-romantic things like science and politics. The nature of your wife's communication with her ex is what is more important.
> 
> I'm not giving her a free pass. What she did was definitely wrong and I understand why you feel deceived. But be careful not to imagine things that may not be true. There is a fine line between being too naive and unnecessarily tormenting yourself.


The fb contact was a bit strange because an account was set-up specifically for him and named after a love song they both liked... disturbing, to say the least.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Steve1000 said:


> I see. Yea, expressing strong feelings for another guy only two months before the wedding would really suck. It doesn't make sense then (to me) why she didn't continue with her ex. If she actually did sleep with her ex after sleeping with Magnificent27, why would her jilted ex lie for her?


Just to clarify what transpired between them....

He wanted a platonic relationship and clearly stated that in November 2013 via email. He even laid out all the reasons why they were not compatible in his emails. She, on the other hand, reminisced about all the good times and how much she missed him...
this sort of communication came to an end in January 2014. From that point forward their communication was minimal through facebook. 

As of now, the ex is so furious about the cheating and lies that he cut her off completely. In an email to me he was transparent and straight forward.

In many ways he was deceived more than I was and cheated on physically... pretty terrible for him too...
the difference is he is able to move on...


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

californian said:


> You're still in the fog and with a dependency on what is emerging as a fantasy. You love a person that never existed and now desperately trying to patch up that image by trying to "understand her" and rationalize it. If you feel that you need this uphill battle, then go for it. Some need to get hurt more before accepting the demise of Eden. It's a natural process that is different for everybody and whose length is typically defined by the level of maturity. By the way, since your wife secretly stayed in contact with her ex means she's got an emotional attachment to him which is not better and in many cases even worse than just sex. This also means that you're not as "everything" to her as you may have thought you've been. The main point of going into therapy is to wise up and become more mature (which is a never-ending process for most of us). Understanding other people's motives is secondary to understanding yours. What are your true motives? What stories are you telling yourself? Are you unable to let go of the dream? Are you afraid of being alone? Are you willing to settle for the second best? Are you desperate? Are you afraid you're unlovable and won't find anybody else? Are you a love addict? Those are the questions to work on in the therapy. It's understandable that it's bugging you that you don't understand Just Why She did What She Did. Ironically, once you put yourself together and align the image with the reality you'll be able to clearly SEE it. It doesn't require much understanding, just an ability to see it and accept it which will come right after you get out of the fog.


What I gather is that you are saying that once I am out of "the fog" my desire and intentions to stay in the relationship will wane? If I were more emotionally mature would I just leave? 
If it were you, would you try to save the relationship?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

When the baby is born have it DNA tested BEFORE you sign the birth certificate. 

Yeah the baby is most likely yours, but given her propensity for being able to carry on a second life right under your nose, can you be 100% sure? I would do this just for the sake of demonstrating to her, very clearly, that your faith in her is gone. 

I've known a few guys who had Asian brides. I have one friend who married a Hmong gal, and even though they have raised two great kids and have stayed together, she and her family have put the poor guy through hell. Asian women seem to have this idea that as long as they bear the children and keep the house clean...that that is all they have to do. They seem to think they can then go and do whatever the **** they want to outside the marriage as long as they fulfill their domestic duties, and if the husband objects they rip him to pieces... 

My friend's wife is totally unaffectionate to him. Her mother makes his life living hell. They have ostracized his family and he literally cannot make any marital decision without her parents' blessing. I begged the guy to ditch her when the kids left for college but he won't. He wants to stay miserable I guess. 

Magnificent, I implore you to think very carefully as to why this woman wants to stay with you. I myself think that, if she were not pregnant, she would be back on a plane to Asia. Needing someone is far different from wanting someone. Personally I think you are setting yourself up for a life of misery with this woman.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

magnificent27 said:


> I do trust her ex based on his reaction to finding out all the lies and how he responded to being cheated on. Of course I could be wrong on this feeling, too, but I'm not sure what speculating and dwelling will do for me at this point. It could just add to my already long list of things to be upset over...
> 
> I am choosing to "go uphill" rather than walk. It is largely a motivation driven by fatherhood coming around the corner. I feel it is worth trying to keep the marriage rather than bailing-out at the first serious challenge. Will I regret it or will things improve and this will become a "difficult period" I look back on many years from now? We'll see...
> 
> BTW-- I appreciate your honest insights, even if some of the comments made me more upset over details of her past...


My advice to you. From a guy that's been through some ****...

Make a timeline of events. Even just so it's clear in your head. Highlight the stuff you can PROVE is true, vs what people are saying is true.

There will be gaps, there will be inconsistancies. Focus there.

Follow your gut, but know the difference between it and fear, and paranoia. She done messed this situation up good and poked a stick into the hornet's nest here... you're just assessing the situation.

The truth will set you free, man, even if that truth ain't good.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

magnificent27 said:


> That is the time period that makes me most furious. It was just 2 months before our marriage...
> After that time their communication was minimal. He had moved on to a new relationship and they occasionally liked each others FB posts.
> Still, she never told him she got married... she could not let go of her emotional attachment to him. He, on the other hand, indicated in an email to her in November 2013 that he hoped they could have some sort of friendship, but that he did not have romantic/love feelings for her...


Dude, this sucks. 

Because it means that you were her second choice, and instead of being head over heels happy to be about to marry you, she was still chasing him.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Marduk,

That isn't as big a deal as the fact that her response to this situation has been to stop sleeping with Mag and refuse to attend counseling. 

Basically she's punishing him for killing her little fantasy. And he's letting her. 





marduk said:


> Dude, this sucks.
> 
> Because it means that you were her second choice, and instead of being head over heels happy to be about to marry you, she was still chasing him.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Marduk,
> 
> That isn't as big a deal as the fact that her response to this situation has been to stop sleeping with Mag and refuse to attend counseling.
> 
> Basically she's punishing him for killing her little fantasy. And he's letting her.


This. In spades.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Marduk,
> 
> That isn't as big a deal as the fact that her response to this situation has been to stop sleeping with Mag and refuse to attend counseling.
> 
> Basically she's punishing him for killing her little fantasy. And he's letting her.


I agree. 

I just think realizing that he was her second choice to begin with may allow him to see this.


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

magnificent27 said:


> If it were you, would you try to save the relationship?


Would I try to save the relationship that you described as follows: fell in love long distance, married in a hurry w/o knowing the person well, the wife's probably been looking for or didn't mind the prospect of a better life in the USA, still emotionally attached to ex, lied both ways to both the new husband and the ex, has a capacity to have a secret life and be ok with it until discovered, clearly self-serving, selfish, doesn't love the husband beyond the words, etc? Absolutely not! You're 27 and I'm assuming healthy and your whole life is still ahead of you. Get support from friends and relatives, go into individual counselling, and move on. The problem is truly yours, not hers.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

marduk said:


> I agree.
> 
> I just think realizing that he was her second choice to begin with may allow him to see this.


Last week, I wrote that my take was that it didn't seem like he was her second choice. I'd like to retract that. It wasn't clear to me that she was exchanging romantic messages with her ex right before the wedding. That would be a bitter pill to know that this was happening during the wedding planning. 

With a baby on the way, the OP must have quite the stress level. There is a small chance that they could end of having a nice marriage, but it would be very difficult for a long time.


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

You're not marrying a baby, you're marrying a woman. The baby, whether his or not, should be out of equation while making one of the most important decisions of young man's life: to be with a woman or not. People with kids divorce regardless of the age of their kids and in this case we're talking about an unborn child. So no need to make it more stressful than it is. One layer at a time.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Steve1000 said:


> Last week, I wrote that my take was that it didn't seem like he was her second choice. I'd like to retract that. It wasn't clear to me that she was exchanging romantic messages with her ex right before the wedding. That would be a bitter pill to know that this was happening during the wedding planning.
> 
> With a baby on the way, the OP must have quite the stress level. There is a small chance that they could end of having a nice marriage, but it would be very difficult for a long time.



She was sending messages and met him twice. In the email exchanges he was laying out all the problems they had in their relationship... she was reminiscing about the happy times and complimenting him a lot. He was already into the "just friends" mode and seeing someone else during this time... 

Yeah, stress level has been intense. We just got back from a short vacation and it seemed to calm me some more. Not saying I have forgotten or even want to... just thinking about it all the time was making me feel crazy.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

californian said:


> Would I try to save the relationship that you described as follows: fell in love long distance, married in a hurry w/o knowing the person well, the wife's probably been looking for or didn't mind the prospect of a better life in the USA, still emotionally attached to ex, lied both ways to both the new husband and the ex, has a capacity to have a secret life and be ok with it until discovered, clearly self-serving, selfish, doesn't love the husband beyond the words, etc? Absolutely not! You're 27 and I'm assuming healthy and your whole life is still ahead of you. Get support from friends and relatives, go into individual counselling, and move on. The problem is truly yours, not hers.


I'm 37, not 27... but I get your point...


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

marduk said:


> My advice to you. From a guy that's been through some ****...
> 
> Make a timeline of events. Even just so it's clear in your head. Highlight the stuff you can PROVE is true, vs what people are saying is true.
> 
> ...


I made a timeline and it became more clear to me that there were some patterns early on in the relationship that I overlooked. In retrospect, after I left August 2013 I should have waited until a few more visits and time apart to see where things were going before jumping into marriage. It was a mid-30s panic, I think, and I realize now how I was desperate for romance without it naturally developing...

all this being said, I am not going to push for separation and then divorce at this juncture. I will see how these months play out and what the relationship looks like post-baby...

I'm sure many on here will disagree with me sticking it out for now--and I can't blame you all for saying this based on personal experiences--but I feel like not giving up just yet. Maybe I was the 2nd guy and still am to an extent, but how long do I want bitterness and anger to toxify an already stressful time? When I look back at my own faults and mistakes in past relationships, I was far from perfect. Sure, I never did something exactly like this sort of deception, but I did emotionally hurt at least one ex and regret some actions...

Others suggest the DNA test, which I will not hesitate to do for my own sanity. Trust will be a terrible thing to get to in our relationship... not sure how I can ever feel completely comfortable with her online life/world after what I have been through...


Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice. It all helps, for sure.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I haven't read through the entire thread, has anybody brought up, "anchor baby?"


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

magnificent27 said:


> all this being said, I am not going to push for separation and then divorce at this juncture. I will see how these months play out and what the relationship looks like post-baby...


It sounded like you had a big problem with your wife, but if your life works for you well enough to not change anything, that's great! Thanks for sharing your story.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

magnificent27 said:


> I'm sure many on here will disagree with me sticking it out for now--and I can't blame you all for saying this based on personal experiences--but I feel like not giving up just yet.


Because you're already married with a baby on the way, no one can blame you for not leaving. You may as well see if the marriage can be successful. After you accept that you weren't your wife's initial first choice, the best case is that she now knows you more and you become her first choice.


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## magnificent27 (Jul 17, 2015)

Steve1000 said:


> Because you're already married with a baby on the way, no one can blame you for not leaving. You may as well see if the marriage can be successful. After you accept that you weren't your wife's initial first choice, the best case is that she now knows you more and you become her first choice.


That's my approach. While I may not have been the 1st choice, I'm thinking that over time (or even now) she knows she picked the right guy.

I will be very cautious moving forwards in this relationship and it will take time to feel/sense trust. 

thanks


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She should have sex with you. It is perfectly fine and healthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Mag, I have been watching from a distance mostly to this point.

If I were you, I would go back to the beginning of this thread and reread every post Mem11363 has made to you.

Everything you need to know or do RIGHT NOW are in those posts. If you choose not to, I would place a large sum of money she will be unfaithful again. And it is primarily because she does not respect you. 

Earn her respect by respecting yourself.

Good luck, brother.


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