# Here's a Mouthful for you...



## Slipping (Nov 20, 2014)

So I came on here 3 years ago trying to figure out how to cope with my husband cheating on me. He was overseas at the time, and almost lost his job and was facing criminal charges because the OW called fowl play. He was found not guilty, and put effort to get sober and work on himself. I couldn't handle it, I told him I was done with him. It wasn't just the one incident, it was years of lying, staying out drinking, and blaming me for everything that made me done. I told him I was going to see other people. And I did, and I became just as disgusting as him. I became over consumed with attention and met a few people in person, and wound up having my own affair. My husband was trying to work on himself and become a better man, but he was still living apart from us, and I just couldn't believe that he was really going to change after all that bull****. I came clean and told him, I was disgusted in myself after that cloud wore away. He moved back home 7 months ago, and I saw a change in him again. He was acting like that same old person he was before. He wound up leaving for a week to stay by his moms, and we started marriage counseling on Saturday. I snooped his phone, and found out he broke his sobriety a year ago when he was living in MD, and last week he met up with another woman and had made plans to have an ongoing affair when he went for reservist duty with another woman. He lied to me and the marriage counselor and he was going just to try to keep it all from me yet again.

listen. im not asking for sympathy. He ****ed up. I ****ed up. but last week...wtf is that. Why pretend to make the marriage work when you dont want it to?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get out now.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Time to let him go, he has just proven to you that he will never change.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Seems like you are both toxic to each other.


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## Slipping (Nov 20, 2014)

yea, I can see why you would say that. " retaliatory" cheating is still cheating, and its disgusting. It screwed with my head more than anything, and I cant believe it came down to that. This time Im in counseling and trying to figure out whats wrong with me, seeing how after everything I still love him. 

Part of me, a huge part does just want to leave. And another part has hope. He has addiction issues and is getting decent support for it. Hes going to start counseling and still wants to do the marital counseling, which if he just lies obviously is no help. We have two small girls, and they were crushed the week he left. Its hard, as all of you must know. 

thanks for the feedback.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you stay with him, your daughters will learn that this is what men are like and that this is all they can expect in marriage and in life. Do you really want that to be the lesson your teach your daughters?

He has not changed. He's not going to change. Do you really want to be with someone who treats you this way.

You are most likely in love with the man you want/hope him to be. But he's not that man. That love belongs to you. Take it back and find a guy who matches your hopes and dreams. This guy is nothing but a heartbreak for you.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

revenge affairs are bad and yes, you screwed up. What he did is worse (multiple affairs and lying) . Right now, you are on the higher ground. You should get a D at this point before your bubble bursts again


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your revenge affair is not the issue. 

The issue is your husband's serial cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Staying with him has brought you so low that you decided becoming a scummy cheater would be a good idea.

The staying past reason was your fault and letting another man "in" was your fault as well. Get away and restore your dignity. Your kids need at least one good role model and right now, they have two loose parents.

Sounds like you at least feel bad about it so you need to leave and clean yourself up and become healthy again.

Your kids need some stability in their lives and you are probably the only one to give it to them.

Really sorry you have been through hell and sorry you sunk so low.

Don't stay there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Slipping said:


> Why pretend to make the marriage work when you dont want it to?



Because some people don't know who they are or what they want. He has a huge hole inside of him and he is looking to outside relationships to fill it. But they can't, so he wants more. But it's not that he wants out of the others, he wants it all. 

Only it doesn't work, the lying and sneaking just make it worse. And he won't stop. So, you have to ask yourself, can you live that way? 

Sounds like you broke your own moral code once. That only gets darker and more painful if you stick with his crazymaking behavior.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Slipping said:


> yea, I can see why you would say that. " retaliatory" cheating is still cheating, and its disgusting. It screwed with my head more than anything, and I cant believe it came down to that. This time Im in counseling and trying to figure out whats wrong with me, seeing how after everything I still love him.


Cut yourself some slack Slipping and remember you did what you did was based on the frame of mind you were in at the time. Your old man's actions caused you to lose objectivity, caused stress to build up resulting in you being in a place that caused you to respond poorly. Most likely your response would have been totally different if your old man hadn't of been up to his shenanigans. 
Other than that and his continuation of the same patterns, your marriage is roadkill and I'd cancel his ticket. The next trip in life you take needs to be void of him.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

He is not remorseful enough to make it work.

You are in love with who you thought he was, not what he is.

He is still addicted.

Wait until the D if final. You will not meet your knight is shining armor for you and your girls in the bars. 

I do wish you and your girls happiness in the future. Someday he will realize what he has lost, but he has not figured it out yet. I have been blessed with 4 daughters. Wonderful adult young ladies. One of the blessings of my life. 

I hope you meet someone special for you. I do not know where you go to meet the good guys. 

My daughter's met their Husbands at church. But they also met some jerks, that I did have to help chase away. 

Maybe someone else can tell you where to meet your knight. But be his princess, be done with the revenge stuff. You will be a wonderful princess to the right guy.

Good luck.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If you stay with him, your daughters will learn that this is what men are like and that this is all they can expect in marriage and in life. Do you really want that to be the lesson your teach your daughters?
> 
> He has not changed. He's not going to change. Do you really want to be with someone who treats you this way.
> 
> You are most likely in love with the man you want/hope him to be. But he's not that man. That love belongs to you. Take it back and find a guy who matches your hopes and dreams. This guy is nothing but a heartbreak for you.


I agree with this sentiment, but it seems like you are male bashing here. Why not also offer the fact that she will be teaching her daughters it is expected/acceptable for women to just bow down and accept such crappy behavior in a spouse. The lesson being taught by staying isn't only that the man is overall responsible. She is also teaching her daughters that it is okay to just repeat the bad behavior we are unwilling to accept. 

We need to focus on the fact that she has done bad behavior as well and is teaching that to her daughters, it is not only the man at fault here, both sides carry much blame, shame, and guilt.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> revenge affairs are bad and yes, you screwed up. What he did is worse (multiple affairs and lying) . Right now, you are on the higher ground. You should get a D at this point before your bubble bursts again


I disagree with this sentiment. Her A is just as grievous and appalling as his. The only difference is he had multiple A's. They both lied (as she even admits that she finally came clean, so that means she was lying too) so that can't be counted against him and not against her. 

So I would ask then which is worse multiple A's or purposely having an A to enact revenge and purposely inflict the pain and hurt onto another (we don't know what his motivation in his A's were, but we know what hers were). I would almost say that it is a wash in the department of whom is worse in this case and call it equally offensive.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Cut yourself some slack Slipping and remember you did what you did was based on the frame of mind you were in at the time. Your old man's actions caused you to lose objectivity, caused stress to build up resulting in you being in a place that caused you to respond poorly. Most likely your response would have been totally different if your old man hadn't of been up to his shenanigans.
> Other than that and his continuation of the same patterns, your marriage is roadkill and I'd cancel his ticket. The next trip in life you take needs to be void of him.


Agree that the marriage is roadkill, but not on the justification part. In my mind there is never a reason that justifies or makes it right to have an A. What if the WH was saying the same thing about her neglecting, with holding, and other awful things, would that make his actions any the less heinous? We would all agree that NO it wouldn't and he could have taken the honorable way out and sought D instead of his As, but it seems that everyone on this thread is of the opinion that since he did something she is justified in her reactions. Sorry her reactions are just as reprehensible as his, as either could have taken the honorable way out and sought D.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Your revenge affair is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is your husband's serial cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are both an issue, as once the line is crossed the boundary becomes that much more blurry the next time. As of now she (by her admissions of a single A) isn't a serial cheater, but if she feels the same justification again and pursues it, she then becomes a serial as well. Do her actions then become an issue as well, or is it still justified as her H has done more and always one upped her, and leaving her to forever play catch up??

I think they both need to admit and own their A's and if they are to R need to get counseling and become open books. IF this is not possible then it is time to think about the big D.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Get out before you two destroy yourselves. Cheating is no answer to anything except exposure to the risk of STDs. Some incurable. And guess what, those you cheat with are very likely to carry something. 

Get tested
Get a lawyer
Have a plan
Protect your finances
Live well. 
Be happy. 
Never cheat again. You're actually cheating yourself. Its called integrity.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Slipping said:


> listen. im not asking for sympathy. He ****ed up. I ****ed up. but last week...wtf is that. Why pretend to make the marriage work when you dont want it to?


Because he's a man, you're a woman, and he needs his mommy replacement back so he can get back to letting you do everything for him while he goes out and hits on other women.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

turnera said:


> Because he's a man, you're a woman, and he needs his mommy replacement back so he can get back to letting you do everything for him while he goes out and hits on other women.


OP...

You'll learn that marriage is an arrangement where she hopes he'll change but doesn't; and he hopes she'll never change but does...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

turnera said:


> Because he's a man, you're a woman, and he needs his mommy replacement back so he can get back to letting you do everything for him while he goes out and hits on other women.


Could be or maybe it is just something as simple as he is addicted to the lifestyle, but doesn't want to lose his current life where he has more money and time with his kids than he will more than likely have after a D is granted.


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

OP, there is too much drama in the relationship and both of you have contributed to it. It's not healthy for anyone. End it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Slipping said:


> I told him I was going to see other people.


When you decided this action you should have gotten a divorce. Unless you had a revenge affair before telling him, I don' t see them as the same.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Sorry her reactions are just as reprehensible as his, as either could have taken the honorable way out and sought D.


Not saying a revenge affair is ok. But the actions of her spouse were probably instrumental in her lack of judgement she exercised.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Not saying a revenge affair is ok. But the actions of her spouse were probably instrumental in her lack of judgement she exercised.


I understand your point, but I see this type of thinking as justification and possibly excuses and/or minor blame shifting (which we are totally against here on TAM). If asked I bet he would say his actions to originally cheat might have been spurred by the result of something she had done as well. This doesn't change anything in my thinking and why I say it is just as reprehensible. Both had a chance to be honorable and leave rather than cheat (the other's actions are never reason to cheat or excuse/ justify cheating...period).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> I agree with this sentiment, but it seems like you are male bashing here. Why not also offer the fact that she will be teaching her daughters it is expected/acceptable for women to just bow down and accept such crappy behavior in a spouse. The lesson being taught by staying isn't only that the man is overall responsible. She is also teaching her daughters that it is okay to just repeat the bad behavior we are unwilling to accept.
> 
> We need to focus on the fact that she has done bad behavior as well and is teaching that to her daughters, it is not only the man at fault here, both sides carry much blame, shame, and guilt.


Good grief. I was not male bashing at all. If anything I was pointing out that if she stays, her children will come to believe that all men are like their father. My point is that all men are not like their father. Her daughters need to learn that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I see a double standard here. When men find out that their wives are cheating.. they are encouraged to start seeing someone new and to move on with their lives.

This is what the OP did. Her husband was not living with her. She told him that she was done. And she started dating.

I don't see the difference between what she did and what a lot of men are encouraged to do.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I see a double standard here. When men find out that their wives are cheating.. they are encouraged to start seeing someone new and to move on with their lives.
> 
> This is what the OP did. Her husband was not living with her. She told him that she was done. And she started dating.
> 
> I don't see the difference between what she did and what a lot of men are encouraged to do.


Sorry but once again I see it as male bashing. NEVER have I seen it where the man has been encouraged to cheat on his cheating wife. It is always said to start the D, move on and then start seeing someone new to help ease with the move on action (which is the same advice given to women, so no double standard). Once the D is started it is fine to start dating as in most states you are considered basically as single and unattached so able to live like a single person would live. No where do we advocate revenge affairs or an A of their own to even the score. Yet the latter is what the OP did and you see this as a double standard? No difference here from what I see. 

Maybe I read it wrong but I saw it as the OP said she was going to start seeing others and did it while they were still living together as a couple (and him still cheating on the side). Even so when she started moving on as per her recount she had never mentioned that she was starting or planning to D, so if this is the case her actions were unacceptable as she was not conveying that she was separating for D. This in my opinion is no different than the GF/BF that tells cheats on their committed partner but uses the excuse that they were on a break or broken up, as maybe they had a recrnt fight or something, yet never bothered to actually tell their partner their thoughts or intentions. They just feel that since they "thought" they were broken up it is acceptable behavior and their partner should agree it was not a betrayal (even though they were never made aware of the true situation). This is how I see it and view it as wrong. No double standards here as it is equally wrong no matter the gender. 

It is like the previous post. You are saying that she is teaching her daughters about that is the way all men are, but like I pointed out you are neglecting to mention that she is also teachig that a certain value about women's actions and their expected behavior and reactions/actions are also being taught in this situation. I have seen it written many times by women saying that they modeled themselves after their mothers, when growing up in the 50's. They thought that women were supposed to stay at home, wait on their husbands, take care of the kids, keep the house spotless, and generally neglect their own needs in favor of everyone else's' needs being first and never doing for themselves. These women were taught through their mothers actions that this is how a woman behaves and acts. So all I am saying is that if you are only pointing out the negatives of one side you are bashing as both sides have negative influences and therefor need to both be presented to show a balanced opinion. The OP needs to know that she is sending a message not only about what is acceptable in a spouse but also what is acceptable within themselves by their actions. 

Good grief is right. As presenting the negatives of only one side/ gender is bashing as a perception of their own side/gender is also being conveyed (and needs to be pointed out equally). 

Just because the kids see it doesn't mean that is what they will believe as their are other role models and influences in their lives. Saying they will believe ALL about something is a sweeping generalization and can be perceived as bashing when it is all negatives. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Your revenge affair is not the issue.
> 
> The issue is your husband's serial cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's all an issue Matt nor did I blame her more than him. He's the initial culprit but her revenge affair dirtied her too and her showing remorse may put her in a better light for it since his cheating continues and hers has apparently stopped. Coming from someone who has been a critic of revenge affairs, I am quite surprised that you would take this stance.

Her best option should not have been a revenge affair, it should have been a divorce. Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> I disagree with this sentiment. Her A is just as grievous and appalling as his. The only difference is he had multiple A's. They both lied (as she even admits that she finally came clean, so that means she was lying too) so that can't be counted against him and not against her.
> 
> So I would ask then which is worse multiple A's or purposely having an A to enact revenge and purposely inflict the pain and hurt onto another (we don't know what his motivation in his A's were, but we know what hers were). I would almost say that it is a wash in the department of whom is worse in this case and call it equally offensive.


I agree with you that revenge affairs are horrible and unjustified. Perhaps I was getting into the 'who has done it more' argument but when both have a lack of credibility on this front, it's hard to say who has done what more and perhaps we shouldn't even consider that.

It may be a wash ....


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I see a double standard here. When men find out that their wives are cheating.. they are encouraged to start seeing someone new and to move on with their lives.
> 
> This is what the OP did. Her husband was not living with her. She told him that she was done. And she started dating.
> 
> I don't see the difference between what she did and what a lot of men are encouraged to do.


I disagree. I see more of 'break up, work on yourself and be happy' type of stuff than I do encouraging affairs here. 

I am an advocate of divorce first, then start over, regardless of gender.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Sorry but once again I see it as male bashing. NEVER have I seen it where the man has been encouraged to cheat on his cheating wife. It is always said to start the D, move on and then start seeing someone new to help ease with the move on action (which is the same advice given to women, so no double standard). Once the D is started it is fine to start dating as in most states you are considered basically as single and unattached so able to live like a single person would live. No where do we advocate revenge affairs or an A of their own to even the score. Yet the latter is what the OP did and you see this as a double standard? No difference here from what I see.
> 
> Maybe I read it wrong but I saw it as the OP said she was going to start seeing others and did it while they were still living together as a couple (and him still cheating on the side). Even so when she started moving on as per her recount she had never mentioned that she was starting or planning to D, so if this is the case her actions were unacceptable as she was not conveying that she was separating for D. This in my opinion is no different than the GF/BF that tells cheats on their committed partner but uses the excuse that they were on a break or broken up, as maybe they had a recrnt fight or something, yet never bothered to actually tell their partner their thoughts or intentions. They just feel that since they "thought" they were broken up it is acceptable behavior and their partner should agree it was not a betrayal (even though they were never made aware of the true situation). This is how I see it and view it as wrong. No double standards here as it is equally wrong no matter the gender.
> 
> ...


I didn't necessarily see it as man bashing by Elegirl. I do however agree with your assessment of what I've seen on these boards and what is the proper thing to do in cases such as this thread. 

I do feel that there is an occasional gender battle on these boards which can be frustrating at times. No names mentioned n who does this but you are not one and neither am I


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

wmn1 said:


> I disagree. I see more of 'break up, work on yourself and be happy' type of stuff than I do encouraging affairs here.
> 
> I am an advocate of divorce first, then start over, regardless of gender.


No, time after time, the guys are told 'just go get some, it will make you feel like a man again.' A FEW of us holdovers say 'no, stay single.' But I've been watching this closely; about 80% of all the men who post tell the guy to go get screwed, that he 'needs it.'


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

turnera said:


> No, time after time, the guys are told 'just go get some, it will make you feel like a man again.' A FEW of us holdovers say 'no, stay single.' But I've been watching this closely; about 80% of all the men who post tell the guy to go get screwed, that he 'needs it.'


Wait...you are talking about something completely different, as if you say you posters are recommending "just get some" and you are recommending "no, stay single", then the person has to be single in this scenario (and getting some doesn't change their status to involved, justs boosts confidence). In this case, the OP is not single, she is still married, and not even pursuing D at this time either nor in the past (and has never characterized herself as such). Completely different situations you are comparing. No one here is ever saying, oh your WW cheated on you, so you need to go out and get some, that would be recommending a RA which we never do. Those posters are only advocating said actions after the separation/ divorce, where the man is single. 80% figure makes me laugh (in fact most people on here have no idea if a poster is male or female, so nice made up on the spot percentage).


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

turnera said:


> No, time after time, the guys are told 'just go get some, it will make you feel like a man again.' A FEW of us holdovers say 'no, stay single.' But I've been watching this closely; about 80% of all the men who post tell the guy to go get screwed, that he 'needs it.'



I don't know what you are looking at, I see very little tolerance for cheating and revenge affairs on this board or forum. And 80% ??? I am throwing the bs flag on that stat, 80% of guys here don't tell some dude to go out and 'get some' if that guy is still even remotely attached to that relationship.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> In this case, the OP is not single, she is still married, and not even pursuing D


Living separately with no intention of ever getting back together again. How is that different?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

wmn1 said:


> I don't know what you are looking at, I see very little tolerance for cheating and revenge affairs on this board or forum. And 80% ??? I am throwing the bs flag on that stat, 80% of guys here don't tell some dude to go out and 'get some' if that guy is still even remotely attached to that relationship.


Sure they do. Most BHs who come here are still attached to their relationship even though they know, and we all know, they'll never get back together. So they sit there and pine for their wife and feel emasculated, and the guys here tell him go out and find a woman, you'll feel better.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

turnera said:


> Sure they do. Most BHs who come here are still attached to their relationship even though they know, and we all know, they'll never get back together. So they sit there and pine for their wife and feel emasculated, and the guys here tell him go out and find a woman, you'll feel better.


then I guess we have a different opinion of 'attached'. I meant, by attached, if they are still together or attempting R. Not some guy whose WW or exw has moved on, divorced, or is living with the other guy. I wouldn't consider that 'attached' but you make a good point. You do have many guys here who sit here long after DDay pining for their ex to come walking back through the door. Some people tell them to go out and get some because she is and depending on where they are legally, I may or may not advocate that but I still strongly disagree with the 80% figure. I know I always advocate a divorce first and keeping oneself morally/ethically clean and on the high ground before moving on to other relationships. Most of the guys I have seen here do too. There may be some agreement between us here ?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I think this case is a little confusing. They lived separate, she told him she was going to date. But she still calls it an affair. 

I guess what matters was what was in her heart. Did she consider the marriage over and headed for D? Or was she hoping to hurt him like she was hurt as a way to balance the tables for a possible R?

Either is an understandable impulse. But a departure from her own stated moral values. The RA being ill advised by consensus on these boards. 

I do agree that men are encouraged to "go get some" faster that women are once D is the chosen path. But that is straying off the topic of this thread.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Slipping,

Yes integrity is lacking on both sides, BUT I see a far larger problem that isn't being addressed so far that I saw. 

1. He is alcoholic

2. You are codependent.

There are resources for both of you to tap into to heal and recover. AA for him and Al-Anon for you. There is also the book Codependency No More and if you click the link in my signature there is a free version on youtube and the link is on the first page of that thread. Treat these first, THEN you can discuss relationship. Until then neither of you are emotionally available to each other nor stable enough to engage a relationship.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

turnera said:


> Living separately with no intention of ever getting back together again. How is that different?


I guess you reading of this is different than mine, as you are the wordsmith here (told me so many times). I reread the original post in this thread and nowhere was it mentioned what you said. He was working overseas and living apart from the family, which seems to me to be work related from the start, prior to the A. Never was it mentioned that she had divorced to even had intention to (just that she was done, which could mean any different things, cause if she was truly done the next part wouldn't have happened). He moved back and they have attended MC, if the intention was to never get back together again, then why attend MC?? 

Seems very different to me as there is no statement made that she was intending to never get back together again. When spouses are living separate we only seem to encourage the "get some" attitude when it is because they are going through D and not during the living apart to find themselves period (which is not supposed to be the live the single life player period), or those due to work obligations, both of the last which is what this seems to me are the case here.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> I guess you reading of this is different than mine, as you are the wordsmith here (told me so many times). I reread the original post in this thread and nowhere was it mentioned what you said. He was working overseas and living apart from the family, which seems to me to be work related from the start, prior to the A. Never was it mentioned that she had divorced to even had intention to (just that she was done, which could mean any different things, cause if she was truly done the next part wouldn't have happened). He moved back and they have attended MC, if the intention was to never get back together again, then why attend MC??
> 
> Seems very different to me as there is no statement made that she was intending to never get back together again. When spouses are living separate we only seem to encourage the "get some" attitude when it is because they are going through D and not during the living apart to find themselves period (which is not supposed to be the live the single life player period), or those due to work obligations, both of the last which is what this seems to me are the case here.



agreed completely


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She said



> I couldn't handle it, I told him I was done with him. It wasn't just the one incident, it was years of lying, staying out drinking, and blaming me for everything that made me done. I told him I was going to see other people. And I did,


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

wmn1 said:


> I didn't necessarily see it as man bashing by Elegirl. I do however agree with your assessment of what I've seen on these boards and what is the proper thing to do in cases such as this thread.
> 
> I do feel that there is an occasional gender battle on these boards which can be frustrating at times. No names mentioned n who does this but you are not one and neither am I


There are several threads here on TAM where men have been encouraged to start seeing women before they file for divorce. 

One of them was a guy who went by the name Eric something. His wife worked with a hotel chain and was cheating with some guy she worked with. 

Another was a guy who I think is Australian. He and his wife had moved to someplace like Japan because she got a very good job. He was unemployed at the time. She was cheating with someone at work. He too was encouraged when he found a woman who he was attracted to before he filed for divorce.

There are more. These stand out to me because in these threads I discouraged it and was surprised when the men on the thread encouraged that the BS start seeing women.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

turnera said:


> She said:
> 
> I couldn't handle it, I told him I was done with him. It wasn't just the one incident, it was years of lying, staying out drinking, and blaming me for everything that made me done. I told him I was going to see other people. And I did,


Yep that is what she said but it doesn't equate to what you said:



> Living separately with no intention of ever getting back together again. How is that different?


At least not in my impression do they remotely mean the same thing. Ever is a long time and an absolute, I see none of that in what she actually wrote, nor did she mention in that quote that they were living separate because of this situation. YEs she said that, but you are drawing conclusions based upon what you want to and not what was said. If she was truly done then somewhere in the 3 years she would have filed for D, and that didn't happen so I don't see the finality here, other than in her words. It is almost like she said it to justify her cheating and forward him that she was. She never said she was leaving or divorcing him, which are the conclusions you have drawn.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There are several threads here on TAM where men have been encouraged to start seeing women before they file for divorce.
> 
> One of them was a guy who went by the name Eric something. His wife worked with a hotel chain and was cheating with some guy she worked with.
> 
> ...


These few (or several as you call them) are minor compared to and a far cry from the 80% Tunera claims. Yes they happen but they are not the norm, nor are thy the majority as she would like to have you believe.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I cared enough, and had the time, I would go through all the threads and post the data. I don't. Just watch it yourself. It's ongoing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Slipping,

Perhaps you can clear this up. When you told your husband that you intended to start seeing other people and you actually started to see other people:

1) Were you and he living together?

2) Were you and he working to recover the marriage?

what was going on at that time?

Here is what you wrote. It sounds like he was not living with you for some time. He moved back with you 7 months ago but is still lying and cheating. And you two only started MC this last Saturday.. long after you saw someone else and ended that relationship. Is this correct?



Slipping said:


> ….I told him I was going to see other people. ….
> 
> …My husband was trying to work on himself and become a better man, but he was still living apart from
> He moved back home 7 months ago, and I saw a change in him again. He was acting like that same old person he was before. He wound up leaving for a week to stay by his moms, and we started marriage counseling on Saturday. ….
> ...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

turnera said:


> If I cared enough, and had the time, I would go through all the threads and post the data. I don't. Just watch it yourself. It's ongoing.


So you admit that you just made this statistic up then and have nothing to back it other than your "observation"??? You had the inclination and enough care to defend the statement so why not provide the actual proof?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Slipping,
> 
> Perhaps you can clear this up. When you told your husband that you intended to start seeing other people and you actually started to see other people:
> 
> ...


Need to clarify why they were not living together also, as originally it was stated because he was overseas for work.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> If I cared enough, and had the time, I would go through all the threads and post the data. I don't. Just watch it yourself. It's ongoing.


I agree, it's pervasive here.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> There are several threads here on TAM where men have been encouraged to start seeing women before they file for divorce.
> 
> One of them was a guy who went by the name Eric something. His wife worked with a hotel chain and was cheating with some guy she worked with.
> 
> ...



you are always going to get some people who are badly hurt enough that they will advocate for what the vast majority here disagrees with. However, painting abroad brush over men that way alienates the guy posters here who I have found to both be credible and consistent in their stand against cheating and affairs. 

Like you, Ele, I don't like when someone advocates cheating. I too get discouraged. But the 80% line was overboard IMO. 

I really don't like the gender thing here either. While experts say emotional attachment is bigger for women and physical bigger for men, I'd like to think that being betrayed in any way shape or form would hurt all of us and we all seem to do a good job standing opposed to it


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I agree, it's pervasive here.


disagreed


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> So you admit that you just made this statistic up then and have nothing to back it other than your "observation"??? You had the inclination and enough care to defend the statement so why not provide the actual proof?


*sigh*

Ok, one more T/J for your vendetta against me. I originally said that I have been paying close attention to the responses and that that is how I deduced that 8 out of 10 men who discussed the topic of sex or no sex said to go get it. It's not rocket science.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Slipping said:


> So I came on here 3 years ago trying to figure out how to cope with my husband cheating on me. He was overseas at the time, and almost lost his job and was facing criminal charges because the OW called fowl play. He was found not guilty, and put effort to get sober and work on himself. I couldn't handle it, I told him I was done with him. It wasn't just the one incident, it was years of lying, staying out drinking, and blaming me for everything that made me done. I told him I was going to see other people. And I did, and I became just as disgusting as him. I became over consumed with attention and met a few people in person, and wound up having my own affair. My husband was trying to work on himself and become a better man, but he was still living apart from us, and I just couldn't believe that he was really going to change after all that bull****. I came clean and told him, I was disgusted in myself after that cloud wore away. He moved back home 7 months ago, and I saw a change in him again. He was acting like that same old person he was before. He wound up leaving for a week to stay by his moms, and we started marriage counseling on Saturday. I snooped his phone, and found out he broke his sobriety a year ago when he was living in MD, and last week he met up with another woman and had made plans to have an ongoing affair when he went for reservist duty with another woman. He lied to me and the marriage counselor and he was going just to try to keep it all from me yet again.
> 
> listen. im not asking for sympathy. He ****ed up. I ****ed up. but last week...wtf is that. Why pretend to make the marriage work when you dont want it to?


Sometimes just venting frustrations helps in seeing the light. I am sure you know what must be done. 
From an outsider looking in, it will be extremely difficult to repair your marriage. 
Good luck to you


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## Slipping (Nov 20, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Slipping,
> 
> Perhaps you can clear this up. When you told your husband that you intended to start seeing other people and you actually started to see other people:
> 
> ...


When I found out about the affair he was in Japan, that was 3 years ago. After Japan he lived in MD, away from us until about 7 months ago. So yes, the "affair" was when we were living apart. I told him about it a year ago, he broke his sobriety and lied about being sober. ANd lied about 90% of everyrthing else. IM slowly finding out the truth, he basically went out and got drunk to pick up women our entire marriage while I was home with the kids. 

Recovery? thats hard to explain. Did I want it to work, of course. He has addiction issues, we're married with kids, and like I said i believe i really love him. And my wrong doing, I started seeing a therapist and she told me yesterday she thinks I was trying to hurt him, which I probably was. To be honest, it was a blur. 

does that answer your question?


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## Slipping (Nov 20, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Slipping,
> 
> Yes integrity is lacking on both sides, BUT I see a far larger problem that isn't being addressed so far that I saw.
> 
> ...


thank you. I realized this the other day. The inability to just end this after everything. I just started seeing a therapist, and aside from the AA meetings he is starting therapy with someone next week. 

I agree with the majority of you that this isnt going to work out. I honestly just dont know where to start. 

THank you to everyone who posted, youve all helped in a huge way. I found myself slipping this afternoon, I feel more grounded now. Thank you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Slipping said:


> When I found out about the affair he was in Japan, that was 3 years ago. After Japan he lived in MD, away from us until about 7 months ago. So yes, the "affair" was when we were living apart. I told him about it a year ago, he broke his sobriety and lied about being sober. ANd lied about 90% of everyrthing else. IM slowly finding out the truth, he basically went out and got drunk to pick up women our entire marriage while I was home with the kids.
> 
> Recovery? thats hard to explain. Did I want it to work, of course. He has addiction issues, we're married with kids, and like I said i believe i really love him. And my wrong doing, I started seeing a therapist and she told me yesterday she thinks I was trying to hurt him, which I probably was. To be honest, it was a blur.
> 
> does that answer your question?


Sorry about the debate.

I still think you need a clean cut.

This relationship has been very bad for you and your kids and has allowed you to sink lower than you ever wanted to.
I know you still love him and that might never go away but you owe it to yourself and your kids to find someone who will love you back.

I don't think you should try to save this relationship.

Take care.


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## Slipping (Nov 20, 2014)

we were living apart for so long becuse of military orders. when he went to japan the kids and I werent allowed to go, it was only supposed to be for a year. After I found out he cheated, he got stationed in MD from Japan, and I refused to uproot my children from everything they know to go and live with him. SO he decided to "retire" from active duty when his contract was up. He recently signed up with the reserves because we needed the medical insurance, and that is where the one weekend a month, two weeks a year away comes in. ANd i found messages after marriage counseling of him making plans with a woman in NJ to go and spend the weekend with her for sex. So yea. 

As far as someone asking if I liked the drama, the answer is no. Its physically affecting my health. IM seeing a counselor now and know there has to be an underlying reason why Im staying and partaking in all this bull****.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What was your childhood like? What were your parents like?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

turnera said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Ok, one more T/J for your vendetta against me. I originally said that I have been paying close attention to the responses and that that is how I deduced that 8 out of 10 men who discussed the topic of sex or no sex said to go get it. It's not rocket science.


No vendetta against you, and a thread jack that you started with your statements and claims (so don't blame shift this onto me). I am just defending the male of the species (of which I am part of, so defending myself vicariously), as you drag men over the coals repeatedly with your accusations. When you generalize 8 out of 10 (I bet 8 is all you'd really find if you looked hard enough and there are lots more than 10 here) then it isn't as simple and clear cut math as you present it. Look at this thread and the number of males posting in it, and by you assumptions 80% back and agree with your presumptions, of which I seriously doubt is a correct number. I can use just this one thread to disprove your 80% figure correctness.

To the OP, I once again say it is time to probably D and move on. It seems that your M is too toxic and damaged to recover from.


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## Slipping (Nov 20, 2014)

turnera said:


> What was your childhood like? What were your parents like?


hmmm, thats a good one. 

I hate to talk negative about him because he passed away, but my father was loud and angry, never happy. He owned a small business and was dealing with his own issues from a crappy childhood and addiction recovery. My mother was quiet and forgiving. She put up with more than she should have, and would make things seem more hopeful than they were. 

I remember being sad all the time. Eager to start my own adult life, wanting it all. The career, the husband, the kids, a great relationship. Overlooking so much just to not think about all the wrong. Put my life on hold so he can achieve his.

Im in a better place today than I was a few days ago, but I would be lying if I didnt say I dont know where to start. I lost 10 pounds in a week and a half, Ive barely been training martial arts the past 4 months, where as I used to go 6-8 classes a week, I cant concentrate on anything. 

The counselor told me to treat this as I would a flu. To comfort myself and allow myself to rest and do nothing. To ask for help with the kids. and for the past 2 days I can honestly say for the first time in my life Im being selfish, and I will allow myself to do so for a few more days.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My IC told me that the cause of my problems was that I was raised to be silent, not ask for anything, and make sure everyone else got what they wanted. Imagine how that worked out for me as an adult.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In a discussion recently with my counselor, he brought up a topic that I think relates to your situation. He said that many people end up recreating the family they had growing up. The reason for this is that the particular dysfunction feels familiar, comfortable. In addition they have unfinished business. That unfinished business is finally fixing things. But few of us can ever fix the problems in our family of origin. 

What you just wrote about your family of origin sure sounds like this might be what has occurred with you as it has with many of us.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> My IC told me that the cause of my problems was that I was raised to be silent, not ask for anything, and make sure everyone else got what they wanted. Imagine how that worked out for me as an adult.


About as well as what I was taught. 

My mother was, I think, mentally ill. She did not treat me very well. I used to beg my father to do something about it, to get her help and to make it so that we did not have to live the craziness. My father's response to me what something like: "Your mother is crazy. There is nothing I can do about it. So you will just need to deal with it." So I was taught that no matter who bad things are, no matter how crazy, in a family I had to just put up with it and keep trying. That did not work out well for me either.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The book Getting The Love You Want talks about how you pick a partner with the same characteristics of one of your parents so your partner can 'get it right.' Fix all those things your parents did to hurt you by 'being' your parent but NOT hurting you. Problem is, if you're that dysfunctional, odds are good the partner you pick is dysfunctional, too, and seeking the exact same thing from YOU.


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## Slipping (Nov 20, 2014)

Yea. That sounds so accurate it's scary. Yesterday was my
Second session with mine and she caught my number already. She knows more about me than I do myself and it's scary. 

He has seemed very remorseful this week. Owning up to his issues he hasn't gotten addressed. Tomorrow is marriage counseling I spoke to her today and told her I don't see how this is going to help seeing how last week he lied to the both of us. She still wants us to come in. So I will. My therapist thought I should go in as well, so seeing how after the initial DD 3 years ago I didn't seel any help and wound up going down the wrong path, I will put my life in the hands of these two women the two times
A week I see them. Hopefully I can find some peace. 

Once again thank you
Everyone for all the support. And Thank you to those who Kept it real.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

My FOO was an absent but sweet alcoholic father, a present but violent in all ways step father and a highly controlling psychologically abusive, narcissistic violent mother. I was forced to accept the abuse as normal. 

Took me a long time to make progress on the trauma left behind.

It does get better, I promise


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Slipping said:


> Yea. That sounds so accurate it's scary. Yesterday was my
> Second session with mine and she caught my number already. She knows more about me than I do myself and it's scary.


That's because psychology really is a science, lol. My DD24 is getting a PhD in psychology. We've been reading psychology books together for years. They understand why people do what they do, how they react to things, how FOO creates the stuff in the first place, what they're likely to do... they can usually 'read' people within the first 5 or 10 minutes.


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