# Suggestion for men in low desire situations



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Some men have posted that they want or need sex and it's frustrating when the woman will not accomodate them. :frown2: I think that may be a wrong way to go and you may want to speak in terms they understand. 

Consider emphasizing the feeling of being rejected and unwanted; note when men are unfaithful, women can be most annoyed that the man shares his feelings and goes places with the new woman rather than the sex alone. Consider mentioning that no sex means a poor relationship and the rejection that accompanies this. You don't want her to see this as just not being a vessel to satisfy you. 

In practical terms, sometimes nagging about it is not the best course. Instead, perhaps refuse to go to her family one Sunday and have the fight which encompasses a number of issues including the rejection from not being with her. You don't want her to separate sex from the rest of the relationship, saying I love you, enjoy spending time with you, I'm just not in the mood these days (and it would help no one for me to do it when I'm not feeling it). You want her to understand rejection is part of a whole package, just the same that if a man was fooling around, he couldn't just say, we can have a wonderful relationship and I'll just arrange for the sexual component elsewhere.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Bobby5000 said:


> Some men have posted that they want or need sex and it's frustrating when the woman will not accomodate them. :frown2: I think that may be a wrong way to go and you may want to speak in terms they understand.
> 
> Consider emphasizing the feeling of being rejected and unwanted; note when men are unfaithful, women can be most annoyed that the man shares his feelings and goes places with the new woman rather than the sex alone. Consider mentioning that no sex means a poor relationship and the rejection that accompanies this. You don't want her to see this as just not being a vessel to satisfy you.
> 
> In practical terms, sometimes nagging about it is not the best course. Instead, perhaps refuse to go to her family one Sunday and have the fight which encompasses a number of issues including the rejection from not being with her. You don't want her to separate sex from the rest of the relationship, saying I love you, enjoy spending time with you, I'm just not in the mood these days (and it would help no one for me to do it when I'm not feeling it). You want her to understand rejection is part of a whole package, just the same that if a man was fooling around, he couldn't just say, we can have a wonderful relationship and I'll just arrange for the sexual component elsewhere.


Sorry man, yeah, before it goes too long, you can talk about it. 

If it continues, you divorce...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Bobby5000 said:


> Some men have posted that they want or need sex and it's frustrating when the woman will not accomodate them. :frown2: I think that may be a wrong way to go and you may want to speak in terms they understand.
> 
> Consider emphasizing the feeling of being rejected and unwanted; note when men are unfaithful, women can be most annoyed that the man shares his feelings and goes places with the new woman rather than the sex alone. Consider mentioning that no sex means a poor relationship and the rejection that accompanies this. You don't want her to see this as just not being a vessel to satisfy you.
> 
> In practical terms, sometimes nagging about it is not the best course. Instead, perhaps refuse to go to her family one Sunday and have the fight which encompasses a number of issues including the rejection from not being with her. You don't want her to separate sex from the rest of the relationship, saying I love you, enjoy spending time with you, I'm just not in the mood these days (and it would help no one for me to do it when I'm not feeling it). You want her to understand rejection is part of a whole package, just the same that if a man was fooling around, he couldn't just say, we can have a wonderful relationship and I'll just arrange for the sexual component elsewhere.


I really agree with most of the sentiment of your post, but I think your wording and delivery could be very off-putting to many.

One thing I disagree with is I would not recommend talking about feeling "rejected." Assuming the HD is a man and the LD is a woman, which it seems to be in your scenario, I can only say, as a woman, that a guy complaining to me that he "feels rejected" would be a turn off. Of course he does feel rejected, but it sounds weak and needy. I want to have sex with a man who lusts for me, not who needs me to cooperate to make him feel like a man. If I give my H more sex so he won't feel rejected, that is pity sex, and he may get sex from me but I'll be feeling resentful, like I'm just doing my chores.

Also, when you say "Don't go to her families because she didn't put out" that sounds really petty when put that way -- but you make an excellent point. If I want sex and she wants family outings, what would motivate me to want to do something for her that I don't feel like doing if she doesn't care about my desires?

How to approach it... Hmmmmmm..... I think somehow you need to convey "This is what I want in a marriage. And if I'm not getting it, why would I want to be married?" without sounding whiney or needy. And also give some real thought to why she is not willing to accommodate. I've posted before - we do things we do not FEEL like doing ALL the time. We go to work. We do the dishes. Take the kid to the Dr., Sit in traffic, help with homework, give a friend a ride to the airport. Exercise regularly to maintain health, etc. 

Some people are LD in that they simply do not desire much sex. But I don't understand why they wouldn't do it anyhow and thoroughly enjoy it, if they know their partner does desire it *and their partner is meeting their needs and they love their partner and their marriage is important to them.*

Another approach I think would be helpful is thinking - what DOES my LD partner want? What DOES make them feel close to me? Where they want to make me feel good too.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I agree with this. People will call you passive-aggressive, but it's really the only way to drive home the message after you've presented your case verbally. I spent many years attending her family events, or parties of her friends that I didn't care about. I drove her parents to places, just feeling it was my duty as a good husband. I never put up a fuss or let her know that I didn't feel like going, even when I wasn't "in the mood". 

When I verbally made my need for intimacy known--through my f'ing tears--she promised to work on it but then didn't do anything. I just kept waiting like an idiot. So I was diligently doing husbandly duties while she couldn't be bothered to do the most basic wifely duty. One day I realized what a fool I was. I should have been putting my own needs first and hers second, because being the nice guy never got me anywhere. In general, being a nice guy will never get you anywhere with anyone. We really do finish last.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Theres nothing more futile than complaining, bargaining, conjoling or begging for sex from your uninterested wife. If you are in that situation, you want her to know you have options. You either get it or you make it known you will get it elsewhere. You can either operate from a scarcity mindset or an abundance mindset. Men with an abundance mindset don't have those conversations or fights.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think that with someone who is truly LD / asexual, *nothing* will make them desire sex. They may be threatened / bribed into sex, but they won't desire it. 

If you find yourself in a relationship with someone like that, all you can do is make choices based on the reality of the situation. Cajoling won't work. Manning up won't work. There is nothing that will make them want sex. You can leave. You can stay. That is your choice, so make it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

If I did that, my wife would have called me a child... she would have lost even more attraction...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

WorkingWife said:


> Some people are LD in that they simply do not desire much sex. But I don't understand why they wouldn't do it anyhow and thoroughly enjoy it, if they know their partner does desire it *and their partner is meeting their needs and they love their partner and their marriage is important to them.*


Well, if an LD woman loves their partner and their marriage is important to them and their husband is unhappy due to a lack of sex, then these are the possibilities:

1) She does care about his happiness but isn't aware that he's unhappy. This would generally be due to his not making an issue of it. 

2) She does care about his happiness, is aware that he's unhappy, but feels that she is "broken" and unable to do anything about it. In this case, she should make this known and take active steps to fix whatever she consider's "broken". Likely, investigation will reveal that what she considers "broken" about her is, in fact, quite normal and that there are ways to improve the situation. Her acknowledgement of the issue and her efforts to improve things will likely go a long way with her partner.

3) She does care about his happiness, is aware that he's unhappy, feels that there is something wrong with her but finds it easier to blame her partner or his needs as "abnormal" and the source of the problem. Not much chance of improvement here.

4) She does care about his happiness but, even though it would be obvious to most that her husband is unhappy, she's too self-centered to have noticed. In this case, it's important for the husband to make his unhappiness explicit and obvious.

5) She doesn't care about his happiness. Not much to do in this situation.

In all cases, the man needs to make his desires known and his boundaries clear. Something along the lines of "I have no intention of remaining in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life. If there's something I'm doing wrong or could be doing better, by all means, let me know what that might be. Because, I will not be able to continue the path we are on if nothing changes." At this point, the talking needs to stop and actions need to take over and be in line with what has been said. 

If the man is the LD, then I don't know that there's ever much that can be done. To me, the big difference is that, for men, LD usually includes problems achieving erections (ED). So, even if he wants to please her sexually despite his LD, he usually can't. I imagine that even women who never orgasm via PIV would have a difficult time being satisfied by a man who has inconsistent erections (seen as indicating a lack of male desire for the woman). If I'm wrong about this, please let me know.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

uhtred said:


> I think that with someone who is truly LD / asexual, *nothing* will make them desire sex. They may be threatened / bribed into sex, but they won't desire it.
> 
> If you find yourself in a relationship with someone like that, all you can do is make choices based on the reality of the situation. Cajoling won't work. Manning up won't work. There is nothing that will make them want sex. You can leave. You can stay. That is your choice, so make it.


If someone is asexual then, yes, nothing will make them desire sex.

If someone is Low Desire, then it just means that they have less desire, not no desire.

I am Low Desire when it comes to going to the gym. 

I rarely spontaneously get the desire to go.

When I do go, I'm generally happy I did and feel better about myself.

When I go regularly, even though I still need push myself to go, I feel better about myself, my physical condition and my life.

The more often I go, the better the experiences I have. 

The more regularly I go to the gym, the more normal it feels to go there and the better I feel when I do. 

The trick is having proper motivation to go to the gym more consistently.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> In all cases, the man needs to make his desires known and his boundaries clear. Something along the lines of "I have no intention of remaining in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life. If there's something I'm doing wrong or could be doing better, by all means, let me know what that might be. Because, I will not be able to continue the path we are on if nothing changes." At this point, the talking needs to stop and actions need to take over and be in line with what has been said.


EXACTLY. The marriage vows say to have and to hold and to cherish, etc. They don't JUST say to not stray. A LD spouse who is not being intimate is breaking their marriage vows, IMO. But then so is a HD spouse who is not attempting to meet their LD spouse's needs, whatever they are.




Buddy400 said:


> If the man is the LD, then I don't know that there's ever much that can be done. To me, the big difference is that, for men, LD usually includes problems achieving erections (ED). So, even if he wants to please her sexually despite his LD, he usually can't. I imagine that even women who never orgasm via PIV would have a difficult time being satisfied by a man who has inconsistent erections (seen as indicating a lack of male desire for the woman). If I'm wrong about this, please let me know.


I've never experienced this, but I think you're wrong. I mean look at lesbians. They seem to have satisfying sex lives without erections. There are many ways to have intimate fun with your partner.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> I really agree with most of the sentiment of your post, but I think your wording and delivery could be very off-putting to many.
> 
> One thing I disagree with is I would not recommend talking about feeling "rejected." Assuming the HD is a man and the LD is a woman, which it seems to be in your scenario, I can only say, as a woman, that a guy complaining to me that he "feels rejected" would be a turn off. Of course he does feel rejected, but it sounds weak and needy. I want to have sex with a man who lusts for me, not who needs me to cooperate to make him feel like a man. * If I give my H more sex so he won't feel rejected*, that is pity sex, and he may get sex from me but I'll be feeling resentful, like I'm just doing my chores.


 @WorkingWife , this is the sentiment in any romantic relationship that I find basically disgusting in general. 

I am not saying that this is how you feel, but a lot of people do think this way. Some woman think they are giving sex to their husband. Lots of men are busy figuring out how to "GET" sex from their wives.

This attitude is pervasive. In my world it does not work this way. 

I have never "Asked for" or "Gotten sex" from any woman in my entire life. I have "had" sex with a lot of women. I "Have' sex with my GF. 

I don't do things to "Get" sex from her, I do things for her because I love her. 

This concept, that is also in several books, is repulsive. 

Sex between and man and a woman is a mutual thing that they both want to do. I have never given pity sex to a woman or accepted it from on. 

If it is not mutual, why even have it, it would feel like prostitution... 

When did people start thinking this way? Has it always been this way? 

When I want to make love to a woman that I am with, now only GF, I make love to her. If she is sick or too tired, then we can wait, as long as that is not a pattern. 

I make love to her because I want her, and she walks around in skimpy outfits just to see if I will take her, or maybe to get me to take her, not sure on that one. It is not like she really has to wonder if it is going to happen, maybe she is just testing outfits for effect. 

Anyway, this man does not think this way. If I was ever with a woman that felt she was giving me sex and not having sex with me, I think I might end the relationship...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> I mean look at lesbians. They seem to have satisfying sex lives without erections. There are many ways to have intimate fun with your partner.



Do they? I’m not sure they do. I have yet to meet a Lesbian who hasn’t secretly been wondering and longing for a proper erection (like the one my wife gets who I’m pretty sure used to be a secret lesbian too, until my erection has changed her life outlook for good).
That’s just science.



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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Do they? I’m not sure they do. I have yet to meet a Lesbian who hasn’t secretly been wondering and longing for a proper erection (like the one my wife gets who I’m pretty sure used to be a secret lesbian too, until my erection has changed her life outlook for good).
> That’s just science.
> 
> 
> ...


I appreciate this post. ISWYDT >


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Bobby5000 said:


> In practical terms, sometimes nagging about it is not the best course. Instead, perhaps refuse to go to her family one Sunday and have the fight which encompasses a number of issues including the rejection from not being with her.


If you as a partner is going to be passive aggressive and actually be successful at it, much more creativity is needed. So instead of nagging, perhaps convince your mother-in-law to go away on a fun trip one Sunday while purposely leaving the wife behind. Don't tell her that it is to go shopping for her a surprise, and that way later when the wife gets mad for being left out you can passive aggressively choose that moment to show her the surprise and make a claim that she is just a horrible person to be around sometimes. Also claim that her jealously has almost made it impossible to develop a true friendship with the mother-in-law. ...and make sure the mother-in-law backs you up on this! 

Now I would never be that passive aggressive, but if I felt the need to... that is how I would do it! 



Badsanta


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

I understand what you are saying. However, some people have much higher sex drives than others. Typically, men have a lot more testosterone than women, and testosterone makes them crave sex whether they're "in love" or not. For the average woman, sex drive is more a result of emotional connection to the guy.

Maybe your GF has a higher than usual sex drive compared to most women. OR, maybe you treat her really good and she therefore loves sex with you.

I see men post complaining how their partner is LD and they can't "get" sex, but I often see NO self awareness/self analysis on their part as to WHY their partner doesn't want to have sex with them. They won't take time to have a good conversation with their wife, or take her shopping, or do anything they don't feel like doing for her but they're completely frustrated she doesn't desire sex with them. WHy should she?

And then I see LD people who are just smug and self righteous about the fact that "they dont' feel like it" and they should never do something "they don't feel like doing." And I wonder - why don't they feel like it? If they love their spouse and their spouse is not a jerk and is meeting their needs, the only reason I can see for not wanting sex is laziness, selfishness, and indifference on their part. I think I'm pretty LD in general but I LOVE having sex with my guy because mmmmm I just can't get too much of him. But if I'm away from him I'm not walking around itching for sex.

Or take sex out of it - I love rubbing his back, his hands, his feet - I want to make him feel good because he makes me feel good. But if he didn't make me feel good, that stuff would be a chore.




BluesPower said:


> @WorkingWife , this is the sentiment in any romantic relationship that I find basically disgusting in general.
> 
> I am not saying that this is how you feel, but a lot of people do think this way. Some woman think they are giving sex to their husband. Lots of men are busy figuring out how to "GET" sex from their wives.
> 
> ...


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## Frustrated_Hubby (Mar 22, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> I understand what you are saying. However, some people have much higher sex drives than others. Typically, men have a lot more testosterone than women, and testosterone makes them crave sex whether they're "in love" or not. For the average woman, sex drive is more a result of emotional connection to the guy.
> 
> Maybe your GF has a higher than usual sex drive compared to most women. OR, maybe you treat her really good and she therefore loves sex with you.
> 
> ...


I have had the conversation with LD wife. Things might change for the short term. But quickly returns. I have asked what I can do better. I wait for her to initiate. I do a lot around the house (and her mothers house which I bought for her). I do the flowers, foot rubs, laundry, dishes, dinner, etc. I am getting to the point where I just don't care anymore.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Frustrated_Hubby said:


> WorkingWife said:
> 
> 
> > I understand what you are saying. However, some people have much higher sex drives than others. Typically, men have a lot more testosterone than women, and testosterone makes them crave sex whether they're "in love" or not. For the average woman, sex drive is more a result of emotional connection to the guy.
> ...


You need to read “No more mr nice guy” you can download it free. 
Stop being such a wuss and remember that your wife doesn’t find you attractive enough to have sex with you. Why on earth do you think bow kowtowing to her will make you seem more attractive?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Frustrated_Hubby said:


> I have had the conversation with LD wife. Things might change for the short term. But quickly returns. I have asked what I can do better. I wait for her to initiate. I do a lot around the house (and her mothers house which I bought for her). I do the flowers, foot rubs, laundry, dishes, dinner, etc. I am getting to the point where I just don't care anymore.


I'm really sorry.

One thing I would stop doing is things around the house, laundry, dishes, etc. unless you actually enjoy doing them. When people are unhappy they will gripe about things like being tired and needing more help. But the truth is, a man doing dishes or laundry is not actually a turn on. You are probably just as likely, probably more so, to get sex from her if you stop catering to her in this way as you are if you keep doing that stuff. So why bother doing that stuff if she's not appreciating it.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> You need to read “No more mr nice guy” you can download it free.
> Stop being such a wuss and remember that your wife doesn’t find you attractive enough to have sex with you. Why on earth do you think bow kowtowing to her will make you seem more attractive?


100 Likes!!!! What you said. It's true.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

This is so important. 

At the risk of a thread jack, this is exactly what was at the heart of lengthy thread which discussed the lack of empathy from women to their male partners. 

One female poster described it as "va-clang", or the sound of her vagina closing at the thought of her man sharing this kind of feelings. 

Please understand I am not blaming you for this, because it is what it is, to be ignored at the peril of the relationship...but unfortunately this is also why men cannot be truly transparent.


WorkingWife said:


> I really agree with most of the sentiment of your post, but I think your wording and delivery could be very off-putting to many.
> 
> One thing I disagree with is I would not recommend talking about feeling "rejected." Assuming the HD is a man and the LD is a woman, which it seems to be in your scenario, I can only say, as a woman, that a guy complaining to me that he "feels rejected" would be a turn off. Of course he does feel rejected, but it sounds weak and needy. I want to have sex with a man who lusts for me, not who needs me to cooperate to make him feel like a man. If I give my H more sex so he won't feel rejected, that is pity sex, and he may get sex from me but I'll be feeling resentful, like I'm just doing my chores.
> 
> ...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Google the term "lesbian bed death". I think you may be surprised.


WorkingWife said:


> EXACTLY. The marriage vows say to have and to hold and to cherish, etc. They don't JUST say to not stray. A LD spouse who is not being intimate is breaking their marriage vows, IMO. But then so is a HD spouse who is not attempting to meet their LD spouse's needs, whatever they are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If one’s wife isn’t satisfying one’s basic needs, then the one on the giving end of the relationship will become resentful and bitter and eventually, after a lot of pain— it will likely end.

The smart thing to do is have the fortitude to divorce the person that they feel is not balancing the equation and find one that does.

Life goes by too fast to waste in a relationship that is not fulfilling.

I’m not saying divorce every time a person feels slighted. But most people marry for a romantic relationship, not a roommate.
This no sex thing, or rare duty sex thing....
I think that kind of relationship just isn’t worth it.

I also think that when a person is “LD”, there’s nothing that will ever change that so that you get a spouse who WANTS you sexually.

I advise moving on.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> I really agree with most of the sentiment of your post, but I think your wording and delivery could be very off-putting to many.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing I disagree with is I would not recommend talking about feeling "rejected." Assuming the HD is a man and the LD is a woman, which it seems to be in your scenario, I can only say, as a woman, that a guy complaining to me that he "feels rejected" would be a turn off. Of course he does feel rejected, but it sounds weak and needy. I want to have sex with a man who lusts for me, not who needs me to cooperate to make him feel like a man. If I give my H more sex so he won't feel rejected, that is pity sex, and he may get sex from me but I'll be feeling resentful, like I'm just doing my chores.



I completely get that. But sometimes part of me thinks, you know what, I am sick to always have to be this man of a man, who is never supposed to show much emotion, react in a normal human way (without thinking what might or might not be a turn off for her) and let all the world’s problems brush off me like water off a duck’s ass. 
I have to carry the world on my shoulders for my family, forgive me if I, on occasion, let the guard down and show a human weakness that may or may not be a turn off for you (the general you). 
I want to **** and I want to feel close to you because I love you, and if it’s going to cost me all my energy to make sure that the universe is facing the right way so that you may or may not find me attractive to want to **** me, then **** this.

In other words, why can’t we be ****ing ourselves with our partners? (Not ****ing, just being).

Ok, that felt better Now back to being manly, for the rest of the day at least...



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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Frankly, I would stop doing all of it.

You are allowing your wife to be comfortable in your discomfort. She can only take from you that which you are willingly giving her.



Frustrated_Hubby said:


> I have had the conversation with LD wife. Things might change for the short term. But quickly returns. I have asked what I can do better. I wait for her to initiate. I do a lot around the house (and her mothers house which I bought for her). I do the flowers, foot rubs, laundry, dishes, dinner, etc. I am getting to the point where I just don't care anymore.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> In other words, why can’t we be ****ing ourselves with our partners? (Not ****ing, just being).


Because life doesn't work that way, unfortunately. 

It only really bugs me when they (women) tell us (men) that they want us to be more emotionally open with them.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> This is so important.
> 
> At the risk of a thread jack, this is exactly what was at the heart of lengthy thread which discussed the lack of empathy from women to their male partners.
> 
> ...


One of the best threads ever


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## Frustrated_Hubby (Mar 22, 2018)

I always tell my wife that she is hot, sexy, beautiful, etc. I smack her ass (which she kinda likes surprisingly). However, I told her lst december that once a week is not enough. 2-3 times would be great. I know that it is not going to happen every week like that. Nothing changes. I have even started marking the calendar thinking that i am missing something (she does not know this and I would not throw it in her face.) I wait, initiate, get rejected. Cycle continues. 

Told her the other day that one of these days I am not going to care anymore. 

Thanks for the input.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Frustrated_Hubby said:


> I always tell my wife that she is hot, sexy, beautiful, etc. I smack her ass (which she kinda likes surprisingly).



It’s not surprising at all actually. Have you tried....
erm, no, I probably can’t go there. Mods not gonna like this joke, I can sense it. 🤛🏼

Read up on dominant/submissive sex and responsive desire. And also about gerbils’ feeding habits in winter (ok, the last one is somewhat optional but highly informative).

Every (most) women have a little dirty secret. Find it (without prying). They will never tell you what it is. They may rather choose to **** someone else (or fantasise about it, while you do the opposite of what it is they desire, through no fault of your own) before admitting unfortunately.



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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You are allowing all of this to happen. Stop relying on her for your sex and instead rely on yourself. By that I mean be the guy that she would want to F, not the guy she has to F because she's married to you. Women like strong men that stand up for themselves, make the most of their lives, and F them until they are weak in the knees. Are you doing that and if not, then can you understand why she would be unlikely to comply with your desires?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The question is: "is there any guy she wants to [have sex with]"




Bananapeel said:


> You are allowing all of this to happen. Stop relying on her for your sex and instead rely on yourself. By that I mean be the guy that she would want to F, not the guy she has to F because she's married to you. Women like strong men that stand up for themselves, make the most of their lives, and F them until they are weak in the knees. Are you doing that and if not, then can you understand why she would be unlikely to comply with your desires?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Google the term "lesbian bed death". I think you may be surprised.


Oh dear... Well I guess it's not too surprising since women typically have lower sex drives than men.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> Because life doesn't work that way, unfortunately.
> 
> It only really bugs me when they (women) tell us (men) that they want us to be more emotionally open with them.


That is the quintessential catch 22. The woman tells the man she wants to know what he's feeling, and then when he tells her honestly, she doesn't like what she just learned. Not ONE little bit...


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> That is the quintessential catch 22. The woman tells the man she wants to know what he's feeling, and then when he tells her honestly, she doesn't like what she just learned. Not ONE little bit...


That's because she really doesn't want to know. When she asks it's because she has something she wants to communicate and is waiting for him to ask her. Either that or it's a *poop* test. 

For example, this is how I'd handle that situation:
Her-You've been quiet lately, what are you feeling? I really want you to communicate it with me.
Him-Babe, why do you feel I've been quiet? You know I always communicate honestly with you and don't hide things from you. Is there something you want to discuss with me? 
Her-No, I really want to know what's on your mind.
Him-And I want to know what's on your mind or you wouldn't have brought this up. Are you worried about our relationship or is something else bothering you? I want you to communicate with me. 

Boom! The old turn around for the win!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Bobby5000 said:


> Some men have posted that they want or need sex and it's frustrating when the woman will not accomodate them. :frown2: I think that may be a wrong way to go and you may want to speak in terms they understand.
> 
> Consider emphasizing the feeling of being rejected and unwanted; note when men are unfaithful, women can be most annoyed that the man shares his feelings and goes places with the new woman rather than the sex alone. Consider mentioning that no sex means a poor relationship and the rejection that accompanies this. You don't want her to see this as just not being a vessel to satisfy you.
> 
> In practical terms, sometimes nagging about it is not the best course. Instead, perhaps refuse to go to her family one Sunday and have the fight which encompasses a number of issues including the rejection from not being with her. You don't want her to separate sex from the rest of the relationship, saying I love you, enjoy spending time with you, I'm just not in the mood these days (and it would help no one for me to do it when I'm not feeling it). You want her to understand rejection is part of a whole package, just the same that if a man was fooling around, he couldn't just say, we can have a wonderful relationship and I'll just arrange for the sexual component elsewhere.


Yes. But all this has been said before. 

This isn't taking away from it being full of good info and keeping these topic bubbled up near the top.

My inquiry of the team is; what can be added to the above repertoire?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> That's because she really doesn't want to know. When she asks it's because she has something she wants to communicate and is waiting for him to ask her. Either that or it's a *poop* test.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I don’t like this one bit. I don’t like the fact that I need to pretend to be someone else in order to make sure I’m always ‘attractive’ to her. What is going on? Why do i sometimes feel that complete strangers are capable of giving me more empathy than my own wife? And when I show any sign that I would like some empathy, then she gets annoyed? It’s weird, it’s almost as if relationships are deliberately wired in such a way as not to last long term.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> I don’t like this one bit. I don’t like the fact that I need to pretend to be someone else in order to make sure I’m always ‘attractive’ to her. What is going on?



This is the standard advice you will get here on TAM. Become someone else and you wife - magically - will like you. Surely, you've heard it before? :grin2:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

It's always better to not try and debate a W into sex, and has been said, or earn it by washing dishes. Eewww. 

Just take it.

Now before certain people say that's rape, obviously that's not what is being said. A H finds balance.

Act. Don't talk it to death.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Frustrated_Hubby said:


> I have had the conversation with LD wife. Things might change for the short term. But quickly returns. I have asked what I can do better. I wait for her to initiate. I do a lot around the house (and her mothers house which I bought for her). I do the flowers, foot rubs, laundry, dishes, dinner, etc. I am getting to the point where I just don't care anymore.


No more foot runs or extraordinary helping around the house then.

You know earning sex isn't a solution. 😁


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's always better to not try and debate a W into sex, and has been said, or earn it by washing dishes. Eewww.
> 
> Just take it.
> 
> ...



That would be rape for my wife... unfortunately, I'm not a mind reader either.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> I completely get that. But sometimes part of me thinks, you know what, I am sick to always have to be this man of a man, who is never supposed to show much emotion, react in a normal human way (without thinking what might or might not be a turn off for her) and let all the world’s problems brush off me like water off a duck’s ass.
> I have to carry the world on my shoulders for my family, forgive me if I, on occasion, let the guard down and show a human weakness that may or may not be a turn off for you (the general you).
> I want to **** and I want to feel close to you because I love you, and if it’s going to cost me all my energy to make sure that the universe is facing the right way so that you may or may not find me attractive to want to **** me, then **** this.
> 
> ...


Most of that type of man doesn't need to worry about sex, because he already has a boyfriend. 

I hear what you're saying though. It just may mean you two may be incompatible. Some few women may like that but at some point tire of it


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Most of that type of man doesn't need to worry about sex, because he already has a boyfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> I hear what you're saying though. It just may mean you two may be incompatible. Some few women may like that but at some point tire of it



Haha, Stereo Type much 🤭 My boyfriend left me because I was a whiny little b1itch.

‘Incompatibility’ seems to be a catch all phrase these days, often it loses its meaning because of it. A lot of sh1t happens in life: we as people have many sides to us and have different needs in different situations, depending on what life throws at us. If the partner is only equipped to deal with one type/part of personality then there might be incompatibility in that area. But it’s the sum of all situations that makes or breaks a relationship IMO. When this feeling (of partner not giving a sh1t) eclipses everything else or is the predominant feeling then yes, better to call it quits. 
No relationship is ‘fully compatible’, all of the time. It’s a spectrum thing. Sometimes I feel nobody gets me better than my wife, other times I feel ‘who is this person’. The former outweighs the latter, even if in some moments (like now), it doesn’t feel like this.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> I don’t like this one bit. I don’t like the fact that I need to pretend to be someone else in order to make sure I’m always ‘attractive’ to her. What is going on? Why do i sometimes feel that complete strangers are capable of giving me more empathy than my own wife? And when I show any sign that I would like some empathy, then she gets annoyed? It’s weird, it’s almost as if relationships are deliberately wired in such a way as not to last long term.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It doesn't matter what you like because you can't negotiate attraction. Woman want to F men they are attracted to and not F the men they aren't attracted to, and your relationship behavior isn't attractive to her. It's very simple. Women also like to feel that men are listening to them and understanding them, so the only "game" that I play is actually just learning to recognize when they want to talk and making it easy for them so they feel that I actually understand them. 

If you were to dissect down what you said above, I'm not surprised at your wife's reaction. You want empathy from her and expect her to give it to you. This is different than being the man she's attracted to and she naturally wants to empathize with. Do you see the difference? She's got the classic behavior of a woman that wants a man to be the leader in the relationship and you have the classic behavior of a man that wants the woman to lead the relationship. It can't be both ways, so one of you is going to have to give, or you are going to have to accept the status quo.

The men that tend to be more natural leaders in relationships tend to do better with women that like to be led and don't run into the issues that you have. The problem is most get married too early and haven't established these skills early enough to positively influence our relationships, then we get caught in a losing cycle. The key to breaking the cycle is to learn to understand your wife and what she really wants, which is often not what she says she wants. But to break it down for you, she wants a leader and you are not that leader, so you both are compromising on what you've settled for, hence the unsatisfactory sex life, poor communication, and inability to please each other. The script I created above is a way to break that cycle by acting like a leader that can control the conversation and get her to talk about whatever is on her mind. 

Last weekend my GF threw a pretty good *poop* test at me and I passed it with flying colors. I knew exactly what was happening at the time and handled it by being the leader in our relationship. Half of learning to win the game is to simply recognize you are playing the game and learning what the rules are. I agree that the game sucks, but it's part of many romantic relationships. If you want a woman that doesn't play those games then you've married the wrong one and would need to find someone else.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> It doesn't matter what you like because you can't negotiate attraction. Woman want to F men they are attracted to and not F the men they aren't attracted to, and your relationship behavior isn't attractive to her. It's very simple. Women also like to feel that men are listening to them and understanding them, so the only "game" that I play is actually just learning to recognize when they want to talk and making it easy for them so they feel that I actually understand them.
> 
> If you were to dissect down what you said above, I'm not surprised at your wife's reaction. You want empathy from her and expect her to give it to you. This is different than being the man she's attracted to and she naturally wants to empathize with. Do you see the difference? She's got the classic behavior of a woman that wants a man to be the leader in the relationship and you have the classic behavior of a man that wants the woman to lead the relationship. It can't be both ways, so one of you is going to have to give, or you are going to have to accept the status quo.
> 
> ...


Maybe I wasn't clear: I am the leader 95% of the time. And there is no problem most of the time. The few times where I don't want to be the leader and let my guard down (you know, 'cos human and stuff...), I am not sure she is capable dealing with it. 
It's fine and I understand that psychology. What's weird is when (some) women go on about how they would like an emotionally open man. That's obviously [email protected]@cks. At least in my case (sometimes).


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> I don’t like this one bit. I don’t like the fact that I need to pretend to be someone else in order to make sure I’m always ‘attractive’ to her. What is going on? Why do i sometimes feel that complete strangers are capable of giving me more empathy than my own wife? And when I show any sign that I would like some empathy, then she gets annoyed? It’s weird, it’s almost as if relationships are deliberately wired in such a way as not to last long term.


Neither do I.

But, it is what it is.

Ignore at your peril.

There was a very long thread by Nueklas(sp?). Essentially, if he wanted sex with his wife, he had to "game" her. He "gamed" people all the time at work (and was good at it) but, when he got home, he really just wanted to relax. He learned how to play the game; got plenty of sex but, in the end, wasn't satisfied with that.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> ‘Incompatibility’ seems to be a catch all phrase these days, often it loses its meaning because of it. A lot of sh1t happens in life: we as people have many sides to us and have different needs in different situations, depending on what life throws at us. If the partner is only equipped to deal with one type/part of personality then there might be incompatibility in that area. But it’s the sum of all situations that makes or breaks a relationship IMO. When this feeling (of partner not giving a sh1t) eclipses everything else or is the predominant feeling then yes, better to call it quits.
> 
> No relationship is ‘fully compatible’, all of the time. It’s a spectrum thing. Sometimes I feel nobody gets me better than my wife, other times I feel ‘who is this person’. The former outweighs the latter, even if in some moments (like now), it doesn’t feel like this.


I believe that a R has to start with sexual compatibility. Then is something changes, you can talk, maybe. Maybe you can work it out. To start out without sexual compatibility is a death kneel.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> Neither do I.
> 
> But, it is what it is.
> 
> ...


If I ever had to "Game" a women that I was with, I would not be with her.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Frustrated_Hubby said:


> I always tell my wife that she is hot, sexy, beautiful, etc. I smack her ass (which she kinda likes surprisingly). However, I told her lst december that once a week is not enough. 2-3 times would be great. I know that it is not going to happen every week like that. Nothing changes. I have even started marking the calendar thinking that i am missing something (she does not know this and I would not throw it in her face.) I wait, initiate, get rejected. Cycle continues.
> 
> Told her the other day that one of these days I am not going to care anymore.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


Start letting your actions convey that you don't care anymore


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> I believe that a R has to start with sexual compatibility. Then is something changes, you can talk, maybe. Maybe you can work it out. To start out without sexual compatibility is a death kneel.


Most relationships start out with sexual compatibility (NRE).

Men's libidos are fairly constant (with a slow decline over time). Women's libidos are all over the place (due to relationship quality, relationship length, age, monthly cycle, etc).

Later on, the cracks start to appear.

Since it's impractical to exit all relationships the moment the cracks appear, the trick is to address them as soon as they show themselves.

Not doing this right away is where most people go wrong.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> If I ever had to "Game" a women that I was with, I would not be with her.


This isn't a problem for you because you have natural "game".


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> This isn't a problem for you because you have natural "game".


Or, a natural instinct to be an ******* right away


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> This isn't a problem for you because you have natural "game".


This has percolated in my head from time to time.....

I wonder if people have more natural game than they think sometimes, but it has to be the right game.

I mean, not all people with natural athletic ability play football. basketball, baseball, soccer, gymnastics, golf, fishing.....you get the idea.

I picture BluesPower as an average to manly-shaped guy who looks distinguished kind of good for his age with that rough musician thing, a mischievous grin, etc. He has some swagger, but he can also be the whole tender protector type. No, I am not flirting, just assessing based on posts. He is probably a tad arrogant, but he knows how to spin it into disarming confidence. It works for him because it is his "game."

A good friend of mine, K, could never pull that off. But he is a science nerd type who knows how to make things interesting, and he has a very quick, clever sense of humor. He can also quote most of Monty Python. He can't swagger like BP, but he grins this sideways grin and talks casually about forecasting data analysis and will knock on your door when it's time for a meeting, pop his head in, and say "Bring out your dead!" Women love him.

Then there's the broody, shy artist with the air of mystery. The southern good old boy gentleman with the drawl, the tough, distant cop type who you know is a teddy bear underneath. The goth guy who tries to hide his left with his bangs and isn't sure what to say. All these men can have "game," but they have to play to what makes them THEM.

I think about the only guy who is devoid of game is the guy who has given up, blames the entire female gender, and spends all his time online ranting about "princeeses" and "gold-diggers" and reads Corey Wayne and MGTOW.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> Most relationships start out with sexual compatibility (NRE).
> 
> Men's libidos are fairly constant (with a slow decline over time). Women's libidos are all over the place (due to relationship quality, relationship length, age, monthly cycle, etc).
> 
> ...


I am not going to go into it as all the low sex guys hate hearing it, but no, that is not how it works. 

Sorry, it is not. If cracks appear that cannot be fixed in a reasonable amount of time, you end it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Haha, Stereo Type much 🤭 My boyfriend left me because I was a whiny little b1itch.
> 
> ‘Incompatibility’ seems to be a catch all phrase these days, often it loses its meaning because of it. A lot of sh1t happens in life: we as people have many sides to us and have different needs in different situations, depending on what life throws at us. If the partner is only equipped to deal with one type/part of personality then there might be incompatibility in that area. But it’s the sum of all situations that makes or breaks a relationship IMO. When this feeling (of partner not giving a sh1t) eclipses everything else or is the predominant feeling then yes, better to call it quits.
> No relationship is ‘fully compatible’, all of the time. It’s a spectrum thing. Sometimes I feel nobody gets me better than my wife, other times I feel ‘who is this person’. The former outweighs the latter, even if in some moments (like now), it doesn’t feel like this.
> ...


And I totally get all you've said above, in full agreement. 

Sometimes I think dear W didn't the husband empathy gene but got double forgive the husband gene, which I've needed. So that works for me.

Then at times I get an unexpected bit of empathy and I have to rethink it.

W keeps me on my toes. And when my toes get peaked she will rub my head and feed me grapes. Literally. 

Just not all the time. Tragically 😎.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> This has percolated in my head from time to time.....
> 
> I wonder if people have more natural game than they think sometimes, but it has to be the right game.
> 
> ...


I call next in line for the assessment! I'll start for you: BP is about 4'2", with a 3rd grade education, has a furry fetish, and has a pecker that looks like a pencil stub, but you can't see it because it's covered by his beer gut hanging down. :rofl:


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Bananapeel said:


> I call next in line for the assessment! I'll start for you: BP is about 4'2", with a 3rd grade education, has a furry fetish, and has a pecker that looks like a pencil stub, but you can't see it because it's covered by his beer gut hanging down. :rofl:


Your game is definitely naughty humor....lol


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> This has percolated in my head from time to time.....
> 
> I wonder if people have more natural game than they think sometimes, but it has to be the right game.
> 
> ...


Sure. Men who naturally attract women can be of many different types. While each type may attract different subsets of women, they'll overlap somewhat. But, they all Do attract women. Also, it's highly unlikely that anyone could change their personality enough to seem natural and not faked; so it makes no sense for a socially awkward tech geek to try to act like a shy, brooding artist.

But there are things that a man can do to improve the chances of women being attracted to him. The most important thing to know is what women actually want, not what Oprah and your mother told you they want.

There are things that I learned between my first two divorces and my final (blissfully happy) marriage that led to changes which made a significant difference (but weren't unnatural or forced). 

There is advice that I've given my sons (and my son in law) that, so far, has led to improvements in their relationships.

The female gender isn't to blame for anything.

I'm not sure why women have a problem with MGTOW. They don't want anything to do with women, women don't want anything to do with them. Seems to me like that should work out fine for both.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> I am not going to go into it as all the low sex guys hate hearing it, but no, that is not how it works.
> 
> Sorry, it is not. *If cracks appear that cannot be fixed in a reasonable amount of time, you end it.*


I agree with the bolded.

The only time the cracks can be fixed (most of the time), is when they first appear.

So, I'm not sure what the difference of opinion is.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> If I ever had to "Game" a women that I was with, I would not be with her.


If there were a woman who wanted to be with me without my running game on her, I would marry her. Which pretty much sums up why there isn't.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> I believe that a R has to start with sexual compatibility. Then is something changes, you can talk, maybe. Maybe you can work it out. To start out without sexual compatibility is a death kneel.




For men: definitely. But remember that a R that starts out with perfect sexual compatibility, often tends to go sideways and down, after a while. So no guarantees.

For women: I am not sure the same holds true. Maybe it does. But somehow I suspect my wife didn’t see me as a sex god straight away (unlike I saw her) but I think I ‘grew’ on her. Or so I think. I have read that woman’s attraction to her man can grow over time and is not as dependant on looks as it is for a man (generalisation alert!).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> just assessing based on posts.



How on earth can you do that? Anyone could be anyone. Judging by what I write, I could be a 12 year old Philippine IT boy, covered in acne instead of the incredibly manly, perfectly shaped, and very wise beautiful man as I obviously am IRL.🏼*♂🤵🏼🧟*♂



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> This has percolated in my head from time to time.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Haha, me thinks, thou fantasiseth too much. I bet the last guy gets all the feminists wet like the morning dew. There is someone, for everyone, out there, I heard.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> I am not going to go into it as all the low sex guys hate hearing it, but no, that is not how it works.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, it is not. If cracks appear that cannot be fixed in a reasonable amount of time, you end it.




It depends where the cracks are appearing. Sometimes it’s perfectly natural for a crack or two to appear, deep into a relationship. Especially as she bends over.

A relationship without a crack is like firm tits supposedly without silicone: it’s just unrealistic and too good to be true.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I picture BluesPower as an average to manly-shaped guy who looks distinguished kind of good for his age with that rough musician thing, a mischievous grin, etc. He has some swagger, but he can also be the whole tender protector type. No, I am not flirting, just assessing based on posts. He is probably a tad arrogant, but he knows how to spin it into disarming confidence. It works for him because it is his "game."


First of all, it is incredibly creepy that you are this perceptive. 

Second, it is not arrogance if you can back it up...

Third, it is not exactly like that, I am charming because that is me. I don't even think about it. And, I am not nearly as pretty as I used to be...

And I really am not doing anything special in my mind. And it gets annoying sometimes when I am in a relationship and still get hit on. When we have a spat, I don't even go out drinking alone, too many bad things could happen. 

You are an incredibly perceptive woman, but it is still a little creepy...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> That's because she really doesn't want to know. When she asks it's because she has something she wants to communicate and is waiting for him to ask her. Either that or it's a *poop* test.
> 
> For example, this is how I'd handle that situation:
> Her-You've been quiet lately, what are you feeling? I really want you to communicate it with me.
> ...


Hmmmm.... I think when the woman asks she genuinely wants to know, thinking she will fee closer to the man and more connected. But she doesn't realize she has an agenda - she wants his feeling to be something along the lines of "i just love you so much you are the most beautiful, special, precious woman ever. I would never risk losing you. I think of no one but you. etc. and when he say what he's really thinking about (something like "my butt itches." or "you mom's caserole is gross and I don't like visiting them." or "yea, you do look like an old lady in that outfit." or "No, I wasn't thinking about you today at lunch time." or etc. etc. etc... she gets ticked off. But, she did ask with a sincere heart, thinking a bonding moment was coming....


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> Hmmmm.... I think when the woman asks she genuinely wants to know, thinking she will fee closer to the man and more connected. But she doesn't realize she has an agenda - she wants his feeling to be something along the lines of "i just love you so much you are the most beautiful, special, precious woman ever. I would never risk losing you. I think of no one but you. etc. and when he say what he's really thinking about (something like "my butt itches." or "you mom's caserole is gross and I don't like visiting them." or "yea, you do look like an old lady in that outfit." or "No, I wasn't thinking about you today at lunch time." or etc. etc. etc... she gets ticked off. But, she did ask with a sincere heart, thinking a bonding moment was coming....


Some women may ask with a sincere heart, maybe someone like you. But a lot of woman (Majority) most especially these low sex women or women that don't have the balls to tell their H that they are no longer attracted to them, or really not in love with them, nope. 

They don't want their man to say anything that might make them realize how horrible they feel about how they are treating them. 

Plus, unless a woman is deeply in love and highly evolved, a man can never be too vulnerable with a woman and never appear weak...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > I picture BluesPower as an average to manly-shaped guy who looks distinguished kind of good for his age with that rough musician thing, a mischievous grin, etc. He has some swagger, but he can also be the whole tender protector type. No, I am not flirting, just assessing based on posts. He is probably a tad arrogant, but he knows how to spin it into disarming confidence. It works for him because it is his "game."
> ...


 I hope you understand that none of what I said was meant to be insulting at all. I just CU and a couple of other people here as the type of guy more unsuccessful guys assume someone has to be in order to be successful. I think a lot of guys label themselves as having no game because it is a convenient excuse. Because anyone can learn to be attractive to the opposite sex. And I do not just mean externals.

I know this because in my teens and twenties I was thin with the literal perfect proportion body. I was young. I was sweet. And I had very little success in dating. I am now 50. My pants size is significantly larger lol. I am older. I have been married before period and yet in the last decade I have been hit on and approached and told I was attractive or amazing or whatever other adjective you want to choose more times than I can count. The only real difference that would have been perceived as positive this my outlook and the way I am myself. So if I can stumble into having game anyone can lol.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Frustrated_Hubby said:


> Told her the other day that one of these days I am not going to care anymore.


When I read this I immediately pictured Milton from Office Space (the one with the stapler). Not trying to be mean but can't you see that this kind of attitude looks completely powerless is just absolutely counterproductive? Threatening that you might "not care anymore" to someone who isn't attracted to you...she's probably glad so that you won't pester her anymore. She can't be attracted to someone who begs even if it's her fault she's made you this way. 

Listen I understand that you are a probably great guy and didn't think you did anything to cause this. But you've been misled your whole life to believe that just because someone married you they will always want to **** you too. Doesn't work that way unfortunately. BannanaPeel, Blues, etc. get it. Gotta get your mojo back brother...forget your wife and focus on you. She's just along for the ride but you have to make it an exciting one...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I admit I've the southern drawl thing. But hey I'm from the South. Raised on a farm.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If you set your mind to find anything (short of Nessie, Bigfoot or Trump's tax returns) you'll find it. Plenty of fish so to speak. 

The question is to do it in a committed long term relationship, within the constraints of the local culture and population norms.

In my birth country, the idea of frequent "rejection" generally results in a never expiring hall pass, and adultery is no big deal. Also winning big in divorce if you're a woman is highly unlikely, and most women stay in presentable shape well into their 50s and have a decent amount of financial Independence. 

The social sciences guy in me thinks that the epidemic of so called LD in women at least is more a reflection of expectations, focus on self at the expense of everyone else, and lack of forward thinking rather than hormones, stress, etc.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> For men: definitely. But remember that a R that starts out with perfect sexual compatibility, often tends to go sideways and down, after a while. So no guarantees.
> 
> For women: I am not sure the same holds true. Maybe it does. But somehow I suspect my wife didn’t see me as a sex god straight away (unlike I saw her) but I think I ‘grew’ on her. Or so I think. I have read that woman’s attraction to her man can grow over time and is not as dependant on looks as it is for a man (generalisation alert!).
> 
> ...


That's partly true with women (more generalization). I view attraction as something that's on a sliding scale and you can appear anywhere on the scale and move up or down. The most successful relationships are where you'd start really high up on the scale and then stay around that level. Those are the ones where the woman feels incredibly smitten and lucky to be with the guy, and because of that there is frequent hot sex, support for his dreams, and a generally happy relationship. The problem with a lot of relationships is the guy doesn't start very high, but more in the acceptable level, so the attraction has to grow or the woman has to settle. In that situation she's less likely to want frequent sex, support his dreams, or feel fulfilled in the relationship. What the guys that are successful with woman have is they either naturally start higher on the scale (i.e. have game, good looks, success, etc.) and know what to do to maintain that place on the scale, or they are very good at screening woman and only dating the ones that have a very high attraction level to them.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I hope you understand that none of what I said was meant to be insulting at all. I just CU and a couple of other people here as the type of guy more unsuccessful guys assume someone has to be in order to be successful. I think a lot of guys label themselves as having no game because it is a convenient excuse. Because anyone can learn to be attractive to the opposite sex. And I do not just mean externals.
> 
> I know this because in my teens and twenties I was thin with the literal perfect proportion body. I was young. I was sweet. And I had very little success in dating. I am now 50. My pants size is significantly larger lol. I am older. I have been married before period and yet in the last decade I have been hit on and approached and told I was attractive or amazing or whatever other adjective you want to choose more times than I can count. The only real difference that would have been perceived as positive this my outlook and the way I am myself. So if I can stumble into having game anyone can lol.


No I took nothing you said as any kind of insult. But you did describe me to a T. (Physically even) 

I mean unless we have met, how could you know that, and we have not met. 

But all of this description of Game vs no Game, is something that I have never thought about. I have always been successful with women, and on one thread I wrote that I thought everyone was like that. 

Reading here and else where I guess I have to conclude that this is not the case. Who knew?

However, I don't see myself as particularly good looking, average. I really don't put on airs or act a certain way, I am just "Me". I think I am a really great guy though, so who knows? 

But you descriptions are STILL creepy that they are so accurate....


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

BluesPower said:


> Some women may ask with a sincere heart, maybe someone like you. But a lot of woman (Majority) most especially these low sex women or women that don't have the balls to tell their H that they are no longer attracted to them, or really not in love with them, nope.
> 
> They don't want their man to say anything that might make them realize how horrible they feel about how they are treating them.
> 
> Plus, unless a woman is deeply in love and highly evolved, a man can never be too vulnerable with a woman and never appear weak...


Oh, I see what you're saying. They know they are not taking care of their husband so they don't want to hear the truth -- like maybe he's not so in love with them anymore either, and for a reason?

I know a lot of women, myself included, have a lot of trouble saying "I'm not attracted/in love with you" because we don't like to hurt people's feelings. But I've learned that leads to a really unhappy relationship.

MY FAVORITE QUESTIONS ARE:

Honey, Is my butt too small?
Sweety, Are my breasts too big?
Do I look too young???
hee hee


Seriously though, speaking of that kind of question -- I do know a lot of women who are overweight and out of shape but INCENSED if their guy says anything about it. How dare the man be so shallow and superficial, he's supposed to love them no matter what.

But the reality is that really is NOT attractive. It's definitely a no win for the man if his wife's really over weight and asks if he finds her sexy. 

AND THEN you get the women who stop having sex because they don't feel sexy because of how their body looks and the guy is like - bring it, babe, you look great to me, but the wife is all self conscious and won't put out. That seems really twisted.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

AND THEN you get the woman who let's go, looks awful, etc to ensure husband doesn't get any ideas...

Except husband has a pretty open affair in front of her...

True story going on for 10 plus years.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> Start letting your actions convey that you don't care anymore


This is about a relationship where the woman is not getting enough because her H has issues with libido and ED. We have talked and talked, fought etc around and around in circles. 
It happens sometimes but I am tired of it all, so I started withdrawing. He got angry this weekend and said he could feel me checking out. 
Why must I be the one who has to be understanding, accepting, etc. I told him I was not the keeper of the marriage and that lack of intimacy is slowly eroding our marriage as it was a major component of what glued us together. Even in the worst of times, sex helped to bond us.
He blamed his work pressure from 5 years ago, before that he never had any problem. He did the shots, the meds, etc. He is 53. 
He doesn't understand that lack of adequate sex also impacts on me, it is not just about him. As time goes by I am less and less inclined to bother, I do not know where this impasse will end.
Sometimes I feel unsure of my own attractiveness and even that he is getting it somewhere else, though there is no evidence of that, but it plays with my head big time. so it is not just about men in LD situations, women in similar situations also feel the pain.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Bobby5000 said:


> In practical terms, sometimes nagging about it is not the best course. *Instead, perhaps refuse to go to her family one Sunday*





Tatsuhiko said:


> I spent many years attending her family events, or parties of her friends that I didn't care about. I drove her parents to places, just feeling it was my duty as a good husband. I never put up a fuss or let her know that I didn't feel like going, even when I wasn't "in the mood".



Why do you guys go to so many family functions that you aren't interested in? Just don't go all that often. That's all there is to it. You probably can't get out of Thanksgiving or Christmas; but just random trips to relatives once a week? If you don't like them, don't go.







WorkingWife said:


> I've never experienced this, but I think you're wrong. I mean look at lesbians. They seem to have satisfying sex lives without erections.



Lesbians aren't attracted to d---, though.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

@aine Aine you've been around these parts and seen enough of these threads to know that you're in danger of getting into a marriage death spiral. Risking a tangent on this thread here but perhaps create a new one on it? Definitely seems like most of the 'sexless' threads are coming from men and it might be helpful to get a different perspective for women. I think most of the well trodden tactics us men tell other men (and women confirm) don't work in reverse. I'm sure there are other ladies that have experienced it and either come to grips or successfully 'solved' and have something to add...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Might be worth another thread. 

I've seen a number of posts here (there was a whole thread at one point) about marriages where the man was LD. I have no idea how common it is relative to LD women, but it seems to happen quite a lot. Its particularly painful because of society's expectations that all men want sex all the time. Combine that with long standing societal pressure against women enjoying sex and it can leave women feeling helpless.

I think men sometimes use ED as an excuse, but unless all the woman enjoys is PIV, there are a lot of things a man can do for a woman that don't require a functioning penis. ED may not be under his control but what he does for you with the rest of his body is. 





aine said:


> This is about a relationship where the woman is not getting enough because her H has issues with libido and ED. We have talked and talked, fought etc around and around in circles.
> It happens sometimes but I am tired of it all, so I started withdrawing. He got angry this weekend and said he could feel me checking out.
> Why must I be the one who has to be understanding, accepting, etc. I told him I was not the keeper of the marriage and that lack of intimacy is slowly eroding our marriage as it was a major component of what glued us together. Even in the worst of times, sex helped to bond us.
> He blamed his work pressure from 5 years ago, before that he never had any problem. He did the shots, the meds, etc. He is 53.
> ...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

BigDigg said:


> @aine Aine you've been around these parts and seen enough of these threads to know that you're in danger of getting into a marriage death spiral. Risking a tangent on this thread here but perhaps create a new one on it? Definitely seems like most of the 'sexless' threads are coming from men and it might be helpful to get a different perspective for women. I think most of the well trodden tactics us men tell other men (and women confirm) don't work in reverse. I'm sure there are other ladies that have experienced it and either come to grips or successfully 'solved' and have something to add...


I've seen relationships with where the LD partner is the woman that have improved.

I don't believe I have ever seen a situation where the LD partner is that man that has (check out @CuriousWife)


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Might be worth another thread.
> 
> I've seen a number of posts here (there was a whole thread at one point) about marriages where the man was LD. I have no idea how common it is relative to LD women, but it seems to happen quite a lot. Its particularly painful because of society's expectations that all men want sex all the time. Combine that with long standing societal pressure against women enjoying sex and it can leave women feeling helpless.
> 
> I think men sometimes use ED as an excuse, but unless all the woman enjoys is PIV, there are a lot of things a man can do for a woman that don't require a functioning penis. ED may not be under his control but what he does for you with the rest of his body is.


Perhaps @EleGirl can give that thread another bump?


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I solved my issues with my LD (ND?) man. I divorced him 


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Lesbians aren't attracted to d---, though.


They aren't attracted to men, but don't many use dildos for extra fun in bed? I don't know, I just always assumed. At any rate, my point is that I think the real problem with impotence and unsatisfactory sex for the woman would be if the man lost his sexual desire and didn't want to mess around because of it. Maybe because he would no longer be able to be sexually satisfied? Or he felt bad about it? But it seems that with today's tools and technology there would be a lot of ways to keep a woman happy if she was in love with the guy and attracted to him. It would definitely be a bummer, but I would not consider it a disqualifier.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

aine said:


> This is about a relationship where the woman is not getting enough because her H has issues with libido and ED. We have talked and talked, fought etc around and around in circles.
> It happens sometimes but I am tired of it all, so I started withdrawing. He got angry this weekend and said he could feel me checking out.
> 
> Why must I be the one who has to be understanding, accepting, etc. I told him I was not the keeper of the marriage and that lack of intimacy is slowly eroding our marriage as it was a major component of what glued us together. Even in the worst of times, sex helped to bond us.
> ...


Well you find yourself is the sexless situation, and the question is why? 

53, is one year younger than me. I have never understood why men of all people do this, what is up with that?

If he is not having an affair, then why? Was sex at least OK before? 

I would give any women that same advice as a man, if he will not work on it divorce. 

I counseled a girl, about 40, about the same thing. He H was a doctor, horrible at sex, insecure, bla, bla, bla. BTW, my GF was there, so don't get any ideas. 

I told her that if he would not fix it, then divorce. If you have tried everything then you really have no choice. 

I don't know what all of your issues/situation is but I would give you the same advice...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think in a lot of cases having a partner who *tries* makes a big difference. 




WorkingWife said:


> They aren't attracted to men, but don't many use dildos for extra fun in bed? I don't know, I just always assumed. At any rate, my point is that I think the real problem with impotence and unsatisfactory sex for the woman would be if the man lost his sexual desire and didn't want to mess around because of it. Maybe because he would no longer be able to be sexually satisfied? Or he felt bad about it? But it seems that with today's tools and technology there would be a lot of ways to keep a woman happy if she was in love with the guy and attracted to him. It would definitely be a bummer, but I would not consider it a disqualifier.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Do they? I’m not sure they do. *I have yet to meet a Lesbian who hasn’t secretly been wondering and longing for a proper erection* (like the one my wife gets who I’m pretty sure used to be a secret lesbian too, until my erection has changed her life outlook for good).
> That’s just science.
> 
> 
> ...


Would that be like saying to a gay guy that he just hasn't met the right girl?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

happiness27 said:


> Would that be like saying to a gay guy that he just hasn't met the right girl?



No, because like the saying goes: once a gay, always a gay. Lesbians are just pretending to get attention from guys. Obviously. 


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