# Alright guys, tell the truth...



## Angeline

Assuming she has had a child/children:

How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest! 
Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now? 

...asking for a friend ; )


----------



## Personal

My wife has had two children, yet she doesn't have loose skin, cellulite or stretch marks and yes I am still attracted to her.


----------



## Angeline

Well she is quite lucky! Good for you both! : ) 
However, these questions are geared toward men who have a woman that *has* gone through significant changes with pregnancy.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Still attractive and arousing to me, maybe more so after kids. Before she was really skinny and bony. Now she has curves and keeps me from diving too deep if you know what I mean.


----------



## Angeline

Is she like Personal’s wife though? No signs she’s ever been pregnant? I just wonder if a man can feel the same level of arousal toward his woman even if she has changed a lot.


----------



## Handy

At 2 kids and 10 years, I was just as attracted to her body as when we got married.

To me people that get so hung up on perfect looks sound like high school aged people, where it is all or mostly about looking hot. 

Deeper relationships age about caring for each other on an emotional level. If the emotional caring isn't there, hot doesn't mean much to me. Without caring Hot is all empty window dressing and mannequins.


----------



## Mr.Married

Yes I still have the hots for my wife. BUT....There is no excuse for not maintaining yourself for your husband or a man for his wife. She did the work for me and I do the work for her.
Health and physical fitness as a primal biological attraction will never go away. I love my wife's stretch marks. I loved her at her biggest and loved her at her most fit condition.


----------



## TheBohannons

The honest truth is...most men don't really care. The body image "problem" is an affliction that women put on themselves. Put a naked boob next to stretch marks or cellulite and the boob wins 99% of the time.

We are men and we love the female form that belongs to us. Stretch marks, mom bodies, no make up, doesn't matter. Just get naked.

And if we get a little soft in the middle and the hairline starts to recede, we would appreciate it if you returned the favor.


A little crass, but factual for most of the male gender.


----------



## Handy

Angeline, I see that most threads you started deal with what men would like sexually or how they feel about their W. What are some of the reasons for your questions?  Do you feel less-than in some capacity? Are you curious about other men and how they view women in general? Is this a research project? Was something like sexuality a taboo subject in your life at one time?

Sure, getting women to read the men's replies might help some women have more sex if the guy is the refuser. It could work on women that seem to have a low sex drive. I wish it worked like that.

Me? doing without for too long.


----------



## Personal

Angeline said:


> Well she is quite lucky! Good for you both! : )
> However, these questions are geared toward men who have a woman that *has* gone through significant changes with pregnancy.


Well my ex-wife had some horrid looking stretch marks following the birth of our first child. At the time we were both young adults and I have to say I did find those stretch marks rather off-putting. That said I got over it and this was probably helped by her not having cellulite or notably loose skin since she was quite fit.

To be brutally honest, there are plenty of women who return to form within a few weeks, just as there are plenty that don't. Some of this can be helped and some of it can't.

Sometimes beauty is found in and amongst the imperfections, sometimes it isn't.

As with all things it is good to do what you can with what you have, and not fret over things that you can't control.


----------



## Personal

Angeline said:


> I just wonder if a man can feel the same level of arousal toward his woman even if she has changed a lot.


Yes, no, maybe. Men are individuals, to presume otherwise is a fools errand.


----------



## manfromlamancha

MAJDEATH said:


> Still attractive and arousing to me, maybe more so after kids. Before she was really skinny and bony. Now she has curves and keeps me from diving too deep if you know what I mean.


Ditto! Wanted to hold her and cuddle her even more. I might be a freak but I think she was at her sexiest when pregnant and after. Still. I am the sort of guy that finds crows feet around her eyes attractive! Especially when she squints at me when trying to figure me out. 

OK gotta go see my wife (or take a cold shower)!


----------



## Personal

TheBohannons said:


> The honest truth is...most men don't really care. The body image "problem" is an affliction that women put on themselves. Put a naked boob next to stretch marks or cellulite and the boob wins 99% of the time.
> 
> We are men and we love the female form that belongs to us. Stretch marks, mom bodies, no make up, doesn't matter. Just get naked.
> 
> And if we get a little soft in the middle and the hairline starts to recede, we would appreciate it if you returned the favor.
> 
> 
> A little crass, but factual for most of the male gender.


You're mileage may vary of course. Yet whenever I have thought a woman is ugly, their personality has never overcome that.


----------



## Personal

manfromlamancha said:


> Ditto! Wanted to hold her and cuddle her even more. I might be a freak but I think she was at her sexiest when pregnant and after. Still. I am the sort of guy that finds crows feet around her eyes attractive! Especially when she squints at me when trying to figure me out.
> 
> OK gotta go see my wife (or take a cold shower)!


Well crows feet can be nice on some (not all) women, I feel most (not all) women are somewhat sexually repulsive when they are heavily pregnant.

Which just goes to show how different we all are, and that all that should matter to the OP and her friend is the opinion of whom they are with.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Even after four kids I found my wife so sexy, and her birth marks....beauty marks, she turned me on every time she would walk acrosss the room..if it wasn't for the rejections over the passed decade...I would still feel the same.


----------



## arbitrator

*What is the most perfect thing about the woman whom I love may not necessarily be those stretch marks and paunch from childbirth, the imperfections of minor weight gain for the same, or dental imperfections like fillings, partials, dentures or even her glasses that do not bother me! In her or in me! 

None of this tertiary stuff matters a damn to me provided there is the presence of mutual unrequited there!

What I care the absolute deepest about is the God-instilled love, trust, and the faithfulness found in her heart for me, God, our family, and our fellow man; and that found in mine for her as well as those very same entities!

Little to nothing else matters!

Now, if I can only learn how to trust other women again!*


----------



## Wolf1974

So when I was married and very much in love with my x when her body changed it didn’t bother me at all. As matter of fact I liked it to some degree because I knew that those changes were from what we created. She was perfect to me before and after.

Now single I don’t have the same sentiment with women I see because we didn’t create anything, she did with someone else. So I am more critical of the physical changes now that I was before I would say


----------



## ButWeAreStrange

I know coming from a woman it's not quite the means you were looking for in getting a perspective, but my husband has openly admitted to loving my body even more since we've had our two children. He absolutely adored my body as it changed during pregnancy, he said it's one of the ways I've looked the most beautiful and powerful. Now, as a dancer, my body didn't change a whole lot in terms of size but I did get some wicked stretch marks (the super deep ones that look like a velociraptor tore apart my lower belly and hips). At first I wasn't sure what to think of those but I remembered one of my favorite shirts of husband's that I like to sleep in. It's from his early snowboarding days and says "Chicks Dig Body Damage" on the back. Well, now that's my motto hahahaha My husband digs my body damage!


----------



## samyeagar

Brutally honest here...I kind of feel along the lines of Personal on this one. Pregnancy and post pregnancy is definitely a sexual turnoff for me. Even with my ex wife who had a rockin' body, the whole pregnancy thing didn't do it for me in any way shape or form the way some men claim it does. The stretch marks and sagging skin afterwards didn't either. The relationship and emotional history built up over the years did help overcome and counter the raw physical attraction aspects, but if I was starting a brand new relationship without any kind of history with the woman, the battle scars and after affects of pregnancy would not be a positive in the attraction department.


----------



## Keke24

Angeline said:


> Assuming she has had a child/children:
> 
> How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest!
> Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now?
> 
> ...asking for a friend ; )


Angeline, I was super surprised to find out that there is a largeee population of men who do not share the perceptions of women's bodies that advertising continues to drill into our heads. 

I returned to my home country after leaving for undergrad/masters and realized that most of the males I came into contact with viewed women post-babies as 'real women'. They yearned for the soft skin, curves and folds they recalled from their early childhoods with their mommas. They viewed stretch marks as evidence that a woman was growing out of her childish, teenage body. It was quite fascinating to overhear them talking amongst themselves while eyeing women in bikinis. You lurve love handles? You find a slightly saggy boob erotic? Say what?

Even spending on TAM here has illustrated how frustrating it is for husbands whose wives insist on discrediting their compliments due to their own personal insecurities with their bodies.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Keke24 said:


> Angeline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming she has had a child/children:
> 
> How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest!
> Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now?
> 
> ...asking for a friend ; )
> 
> 
> 
> Angeline, I was super surprised to find out that there is a largeee population of men who do not share the perceptions of women's bodies that advertising continues to drill into our heads.
> 
> I returned to my home country after leaving for undergrad/masters and realized that most of the males I came into contact with viewed women post-babies as 'real women'. They yearned for the soft skin, curves and folds they recalled from their early childhoods with their mommas. They viewed stretch marks as evidence that a woman was growing out of her childish, teenage body. It was quite fascinating to overhear them talking amongst themselves while eyeing women in bikinis. You lurve love handles? You find a slightly saggy boob erotic? Say what?
> 
> Even spending on TAM here has illustrated how frustrating it is for husbands whose wives insist on discrediting their compliments due to their own personal insecurities with their bodies.
Click to expand...

True. Now if we could just get them to leave the light on!


----------



## Angeline

Guys would love it if we had the confidence to leave the lights on. (Some women are comfortable doing that.) But the voice in our (or maybe just my) head comes straight out of what Personal has said..that it will probably be a turn-off. Personal is, in essence, a perfect example of my thought process and most other men/women here are my husband....which is what should be most important to me- what HE thinks. Right? If only I could internalize it. 

What confuses me is how men are quite visual..(as are women!) but oftentimes they say they *don’t* notice the things I’m talking about. How can you not notice? Is that a lie to preserve the woman’s self-esteem? In my eyes, it’s all I see. It sucks.

Fyi- My husband never gives me reason to worry, so I shouldn’t. But I do! I find it difficult to understand how he can find me attractive in bed. It’s honestly sad, but true. 

Very often, from what I know, as a woman, sex is not pursued or is brushed off over and over not so much because we don’t want it or because we are disappointed with our men, but moreso because we don’t feel confident in our skin to feel enthusiastic about it. 
Say your penis shrunk by 2.5 inches and is all weirdly shaped now. Don’t you feel like that might hinder your sexual confidence?


----------



## Red Sonja

MAJDEATH said:


> Still attractive and arousing to me, maybe more so after kids. Before she was really *skinny and bony*. Now she has curves and keeps me from *diving too deep *if you know what I mean.


:rofl: My EX called it "cuddling up to a wall of knives". :rofl:


----------



## FrenchFry

Angeline said:


> What confuses me is how men are quite visual..(as are women!) but oftentimes they say they *don’t* notice the things I’m talking about. How can you not notice? Is that a lie to preserve the woman’s self-esteem? In my eyes, it’s all I see. It sucks.
> 
> Fyi- My husband never gives me reason to worry, so I shouldn’t. But I do! I find it difficult to understand how he can find me attractive in bed. It’s honestly sad, but true.


I'm not a man, just a woman previously with low self-esteem to somewhat higher self-esteem these days. 

I don't think it's a lie but a simplification of perception. It's not that they don't notice - it's that the noticing doesn't stop them from being attracted a lot of the time. If you think about how you look at someone's body with whom you are in love with, you might notice that they have a pooch but that pooch doesn't stop you from wanting to be next to them, share your day and laugh with them, know what I mean? On the other hand, if they aren't really that attractive to you, you might fault them more for these "defects."



> Guys would love it if we had the confidence to leave the lights on. (Some women are comfortable doing that.) But the voice in our (or maybe just my) head comes straight out of what Personal has said..that it will probably be a turn-off. Personal is, in essence, a perfect example of my thought process and most other men/women here are my husband....which is what should be most important to me- what HE thinks. Right? If only I could internalize it.


Personal is one dude and you aren't married to him so while he may have a totally valid opinion, it doesn't really effect you. Your validation doesn't need to come from Personal, it should come from you. Harder done than said, I know but if your husband isn't turned off, anyone else doesn't really matter.


----------



## BluesPower

Angeline said:


> Is she like Personal’s wife though? No signs she’s ever been pregnant? I just wonder if a man can feel the same level of arousal toward his woman even if she has changed a lot.


When my Ex W was having children she never lost her attraction to me, meaning that I always wanted her. At the time that is. 

Further, I think you are either in love or not. If you are in love, it does not matter, some will disagree. 

Even further, It is my belief that you woman is never more beautiful than when she is carrying your child. 

A lot disagree with that one as well, but that is how I feel.


----------



## Edo Edo

Angeline said:


> Assuming she has had a child/children:
> 
> How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest!
> Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now?
> 
> ...asking for a friend ; )




We have two kids (3 and almost 2). My wife's body changing to have curves/ stretch marks/ varicose veins after pregnancy was never an issue for me. I still desired her the same as before.

One thing that did cause a bit of a hang up with me for a short time was actually watching our second child be born. Up until that point, the vagina was a fun place, not a birth canal (The first was born via a C section). After seeing the actual birth, it was very hard to think of my wife's vagina and sex in the same thought. It's almost like my mind disassociated sexual pleasure from her after seeing the birth. It was nothing voluntarily done on my part, it just happened. It's a very confusing feeling to be exhausted from childcare, yet horny as hell from lack of sex, but somehow completely turned off to my partner for sex. After about 4 to 5 months, that feeling went away and I began to desire my wife sexually again. Luckily, I don't think she ever knew I felt that way for a time. I sure as heck never brought it up - and I'm sure she was just relieved I wasn't pestering her for sex... [Side note though, I looked it up later on and found that what I experienced is actually kind of common for guys. Sometimes lasting much longer than my experience]. 

I think the moral of the story is that attraction and desire (like many things) is more mental than physical...


----------



## anonmd

Angeline said:


> Assuming she has had a child/children:
> 
> How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest!
> Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now?
> 
> ...asking for a friend ; )


Do you still look like a women? You'd need to do a lot of chang'in, just sayin :wink2: 

Surface fluff doesn't count, now if you change into a sex hatin, naggin, insufferable shrew - we can talk...


----------



## naiveonedave

still attracted 28 years and 2 C-sections later. Maybe even moreso, if possible.


----------



## Young at Heart

Angeline said:


> H*ow attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children *and her body has changed? Be brutally honest!
> Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and *is it hard for you to get aroused by her now? *
> 
> ...asking for a friend ; )


First I had to work through the whole Madonna/Wh#re thing after my wife gave birth to our children. She also had to work through the "I am a mother not your lover" thing, which is the flip side. After we worked through that, no it did not impact my getting aroused by the woman I love. Her self-image over her aging body has at times gotten in her way of having lights or daytime sex. I love looking and touching her body as it is.

I am grateful to have my wife as a lover. An empty nest has helped her be a little less concerned.


----------



## 41362

No change in desire here. Two kids and 20+ years and I still chase after her any chance I get.


----------



## Mr. Nail

First you come into our house, then you presume that we will lie, then you ask a fitness test question. Brutally rude.
My wife bore 4 wonderful children and is currently more overweight than I am (and that's saying something). She is the only woman I am attracted to.


----------



## Luvher4life

There has been absolutely no change in my desire for my wife, despite having two children, 21+ years of marriage, menopause, aging, and weight gain. To this day, she is the only woman that matters to me. I'm not worried about the changes, so she shouldn't. We both still try to look our best, and that is all we can really do. The love and attraction has only deepened over the years. The sex has gotten better, too, as the newness and shyness has gone by the wayside.


----------



## CatholicDad

The fact that my wife has stretch marks and flab on her stomach from our children makes her more sexy. She went through it, for me. Every imperfection I find so perfect, truly.


----------



## Angeline

Catholic Dad, that amazes me. I can only hope my husband sees me that way. If I knew for a fact- like could actually see his thoughts-I’d be a much more liberated woman with him! Your wife is lucky to have you and I hope you articulate those feelings to her: )


----------



## cc48kel

This is a really great post... To hear about how men truly love their wife even after children, weight gain--pooch, cellulite, aging, menopause, etc... it's inspiring. But then I'm sure many also avoid this question. I do feel sexy for my age but at times not so much.. I guess this is normal


----------



## MAJDEATH

I tell my W all the time that I wish she could see herself thru my mind's eye. To me, she will always be that crazy 18 year old girl that I met with the dazzling eyes and rockin body.


----------



## Angeline

I bet she wishes she could peek into your mind for even a second to catch a glimpse of how you really see her! My husband tells me things that are reassuring, and while I mostly believe him, I also wonder if he is being nice because he is supposed to be. To actually know for certain, would make a huge difference.


----------



## uhtred

Be aware of how much you are hurting the person you love when your turn them down - to them it doesn't feel like insecurity, it feels like rejection. 



Angeline said:


> SNIP
> 
> Very often, from what I know, as a woman, sex is not pursued or is brushed off over and over not so much because we don’t want it or because we are disappointed with our men, but moreso because we don’t feel confident in our skin to feel enthusiastic about it.
> Say your penis shrunk by 2.5 inches and is all weirdly shaped now. Don’t you feel like that might hinder your sexual confidence?


----------



## uhtred

No children, but my wife had a beast partially removed due to cancer. Took me a long time to get her to believe that I didn't mind - that I still found her attractive.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

With utter and complete honesty I say...

... I found my wife even more attractive on our 30th anniversary than on our 3rd. To this day, there are times all I have to do is glance at her and all other thoughts in my busy mind come to a screeching halt, and all I want to do is just drink her in from head to toe. She compels me without even trying. She commands my attention by her mere presence. 

I tell her this and she says "well, you're biased." 

Duh! Damn straight I'm biased. I fully expect to carry that bias with me 'til death do us part.


----------



## Personal

Angeline said:


> Guys would love it if we had the confidence to leave the lights on. (Some women are comfortable doing that.) But the voice in our (or maybe just my) head comes straight out of what Personal has said..that it will probably be a turn-off. Personal is, in essence, a perfect example of my thought process and most other men/women here are my husband....which is what should be most important to me- what HE thinks. Right? If only I could internalize it.


The most important thing isn't what your husband or others think and feel. The most important thing is what you think and feel.

Chasing external validation from others and your husband, is a largely illusory pursuit while ever you don't believe what they say to you.

It isn't about internalising the external, it is about accepting who you are and being comfortable with that from within.

Although it's chicken and egg stuff, as to which comes first external praise or internal appreciation. Seeking external validation when you don't appreciate yourself from within will always be hollow sans choosing to nurture that spark from within.



Angeline said:


> What confuses me is how men are quite visual..(as are women!) but oftentimes they say they *don’t* notice the things I’m talking about. How can you not notice? Is that a lie to preserve the woman’s self-esteem? In my eyes, it’s all I see. It sucks.


Well plenty will notice, yet that doesn't mean that the whole is lost for a part. As I said I didn't like my ex-wife's stretch marks. Yet that didn't translate to I didn't want her and didn't find her attractive, as I said I got over it.

One thing for sure your thinking is toxic when it comes to having a healthy relationship. The corrosion that eats at you will always bubble to the surface, and harm how you and your husband relate.

When my wife asks me something along the lines of "does this make me look fat" I will always tell her like it is. So if it does make her look that way or she does look that way and she asks I will tell her straight without any hesitation. By the same token I tell her straight as to what I find delightful within and about her.

Perhaps it might help you if your husband acknowledges your imperfections and names them and identifies them. Bearing in mind though that he also acknowledges you and names that which he finds wondrous within and about you.

So try having that conversation with your husband.



Angeline said:


> Fyi- My husband never gives me reason to worry, so I shouldn’t. But I do! I find it difficult to understand how he can find me attractive in bed. It’s honestly sad, but true.


The sexiest women are those who know themselves and accept themselves, do yourself a favour and appreciate your naked self and all of your blemishes.

I also encourage you to look up THE NU PROJECT .com, by Minneapolis photographer Matthew Blum and look through his galleries. He takes pictures of a tremendous parade of beautiful women who aren't wearing any clothes. Understanding that they are beautiful and accept themselves, may help you appreciate yourself.

If you loathe yourself, you will grow a chasm between your husband and his appreciation of you.



Angeline said:


> Very often, from what I know, as a woman, sex is not pursued or is brushed off over and over not so much because we don’t want it or because we are disappointed with our men, but moreso because we don’t feel confident in our skin to feel enthusiastic about it.


I've never been in a sexual relationship with any woman, where sex was not pursued by them, just as sex has never been brushed off over and over by any of them either. My experience of this is from within three longer term relationships inclusive of two marriages, plus a number of lesser length sexual relationships and a few one night stands.

Though my wife (who I have been with for close to 22 years) does not have any cellulite, loose skin or stretch marks that I can see. She does have a scar on her face from when her face was repaired, after she got smashed by a car while crossing a road next to me. She also has two very large scars on both sides of one of her ankles which is wider than the other, from when she got hurt at work once.

Yet my wife often asks for or initiates sex, seldom doesn't want to have sex and doesn't want the lights turned out. In fact for the most part she sleeps naked and frequently poses for me sans any clothing, or in some sort of revealing or explicit way. So I can capture her likeness with erotic and even pornographic photographs.

Not all women think like you, just as not all men think like me, you do not represent all women as I do not represent all men.

When I was a young man, albeit short I had a pretty face, a lovely smile, was extremely fit and was very handsome (and knew it). Today I am middle aged and am no longer that handsome young thing by any measure (and I know that to).

At the end of the day looks fade, people change, age and show signs of the life they have experienced. People all earn what they look like through their restraint excess, trauma, struggles and simply through who and what they are born as.

Peace and comfort can be found in accepting what is and in owning who and what you are, whomever and whatever you may be.



Angeline said:


> Say your penis shrunk by 2.5 inches and is all weirdly shaped now. Don’t you feel like that might hinder your sexual confidence?


Sure it would have a negative impact simply because it wouldn't be as effective as it once was. Yet the thing is, if it is something that cannot be changed, it is far better to accept what you have and and what is, then press on with that. At the end of the day I would get over myself, because to do otherwise would be a fools errand.





Feel free to like yourself and the rest should follow.


----------



## TheBohannons

Angeline said:


> Guys would love it if we had the confidence to leave the lights on. (Some women are comfortable doing that.) But the voice in our (or maybe just my) head comes straight out of what Personal has said..that it will probably be a turn-off. Personal is, in essence, a perfect example of my thought process and most other men/women here are my husband....which is what should be most important to me- what HE thinks. Right? If only I could internalize it.
> 
> What confuses me is how men are quite visual..(as are women!) but oftentimes they say they *don’t* notice the things I’m talking about. How can you not notice? Is that a lie to preserve the woman’s self-esteem? In my eyes, it’s all I see. It sucks.
> 
> Fyi- My husband never gives me reason to worry, so I shouldn’t. But I do! I find it difficult to understand how he can find me attractive in bed. It’s honestly sad, but true.


Men are visual, but men also have the ability to see all of you at one glance. Not only do we see you as you are today, but we can see you at 18, at 30 at 40 or 60. All in one glance. It as if the woman you love metamorphosis in the throws of passion.

This man is your husband. If he tells you he wants you, believe him. There are guys like personal, but there are more guys that want sex with their wives every day. Stop questioning his desire for you and appreciate what you actually have. Leave your body image at your front door.

BTW, the answer to your question is posted all over this forum. Read the sexless marriage threads. All of the wives have children. These Men YEARN for sex with their wives. Doesn't matter if they are married 10, 20 or 30 years. 

If I may make a suggestion, instead of focusing on how you look, try to rediscover your femininity. Do the subtle, the sensuous, not necessarily the sexy. If you can focus on ALL of you that is woman, he will let you know in many ways exactly what he thinks.


----------



## Daisy12

Edo Edo said:


> We have two kids (3 and almost 2). My wife's body changing to have curves/ stretch marks/ varicose veins after pregnancy was never an issue for me. I still desired her the same as before.
> 
> One thing that did cause a bit of a hang up with me for a short time was actually watching our second child be born. Up until that point, the vagina was a fun place, not a birth canal (The first was born via a C section). After seeing the actual birth, it was very hard to think of my wife's vagina and sex in the same thought. It's almost like my mind disassociated sexual pleasure from her after seeing the birth. It was nothing voluntarily done on my part, it just happened. It's a very confusing feeling to be exhausted from childcare, yet horny as hell from lack of sex, but somehow completely turned off to my partner for sex. After about 4 to 5 months, that feeling went away and I began to desire my wife sexually again. Luckily, I don't think she ever knew I felt that way for a time. I sure as heck never brought it up - and I'm sure she was just relieved I wasn't pestering her for sex... [Side note though, I looked it up later on and found that what I experienced is actually kind of common for guys. Sometimes lasting much longer than my experience].
> 
> I think the moral of the story is that attraction and desire (like many things) is more mental than physical...


I saw a comedian that explained this very thing. He said watching his wife give birth was like watching his favourite restaurant burn down. Sure they rebuild it, but it is never the same again. 

I was actually worried about my husband watching the birth of our four children because of this. He watched all four and it never changed his desire or at least none that I noticed.


----------



## Luvher4life

Daisy12 said:


> I saw a comedian that explained this very thing. He said watching his wife give birth was like watching his favourite restaurant burn down. Sure they rebuild it, but it is never the same again.
> 
> I was actually worried about my husband watching the birth of our four children because of this. He watched all four and it never changed his desire or at least none that I noticed.


That comedian was wrong for most men, in my opinion. I watched both of my daughters being born. It didn't change a thing about how I viewed her sexually. If anything, I had more appreciation for her, and her sexiness never faded at all. Bodies change. That is a given..., but the desire doesn't if you love someone. Love allows you to see past the flaws, and into their inner most being.


----------



## dadstartingover

I'll be the bad guy here. 

Your concerns, OP, are grounded in reality. We all know that on a visceral level, men are more attracted to younger, fit gals. Porn is not a billion dollar industry for no reason. Men are 98% of the audience. The vast majority of the porn women are young and fit. That's not an accident.

What you're reading here is a bunch of really good-hearted men who fell in love with a woman decades ago. Age, kids, stress... they all take tolls on our bodies, but good men are blind to those shallow things. Instead, we see the deeper and more truthful form of "love" that supersedes all that crap. This is why men like us are so blind-sided by our long-term spouses cheating on us or leaving the relationship. Is it just because we gained weight, lost our jobs, got sick, etc? Sometimes that's exactly what started the process of disconnection. It hurts.

Us good men are a bit naive when it comes to this stuff. I've found that most women are much more pragmatic about their partners. This is the crux of your concern. You know what YOUR criteria for keeping your partner around are, but you're wondering if "cellulite and stretch marks" are part of his no-no list. Trust me when I say: If he's a good dude, right now the list doesn't even exist.

Or, maybe he's been around the block a few times, is more jaded (like myself) and realizes that his love and devotion are no longer unconditional. Maybe one day he will say "I just don't see you as a lover anymore."

When one of the spouses suddenly says "Hold on a sec... you're not THAT great of a partner!".. I call that the "wake up" phenomenon.

I have personally seen the "wake up" phenomenon, but the vast majority of the time (in my personal circle of friends and aquaintances) it comes from the woman. Marriage is usually around the 7 or 14 year mark... boring... kids... nothing exciting... and then one spouse starts going to the gym, meets some new people, gets a better job,... all those positive self-improvement stuff, and then they look at the spouse and say "All that past love and adoration can no longer outweigh my current disdain for you... and your looks have a lot to do with that." 

So, I'm not gonna blow smoke up your butt and tell you that your hubby will always love you no matter how you look *and find NO other women on the planet attractive* (I cringe when I see men say this - it's either a dishonest ploy to win sympathy points with women, or points to a testosterone deficiency) and that 20 extra pounds of weight is not a turnoff. On a visceral level, that's BS and you know it.

What I will tell you is that you both should always do your best to stay sexy for each other. It shows you care about what they think. It shows you have respect for yourself and for your relationship. It shows that you value them as a sexual partner. 

Your relationship shouldn't be based on one or both of you hoping the other doesn't "wake up".


----------



## BigDigg

My wife is 41 now and we've had 2 kids. She has always been naturally beautiful and has generally maintained OK after the kids. To be honest she doesn't work very hard to maintain herself but really is kinda lucky that she doesn't really need to much either. If she wanted she could look like she did pre-kids in her 20's again if she just watched what she eats and exercised occasionally. That said she's still perfect for me and I love her body. Could care less about any perceived imperfections or comparisons against her earlier self or some ridiculous magazine models. 

Now there is something post-kids that I do honestly hate and is an active turnoff from time to time - her utter lack of confidence in her body. It means that she's inclined to hide it rather than celebrate it. She gets needless anxiety on how I'll accept it and that means she's unwilling or incapable of really letting go and enjoying. Honestly this fact (and nothing related to her body) makes our sex life a persistent 6/7 vs. the 9/10 it could be. No amount of my praise or expressions of love seems to convince her that I love every inch of her exactly how she is. I've never said anything to lead her to develop these insecurities. It's unfortunately 100% in her head.


----------



## Luvher4life

BigDigg said:


> My wife is 41 now and we've had 2 kids. She has always been naturally beautiful and has generally maintained OK after the kids. To be honest she doesn't work very hard to maintain herself but really is kinda lucky that she doesn't really need to much either. If she wanted she could look like she did pre-kids in her 20's again if she just watched what she eats and exercised occasionally. That said she's still perfect for me and I love her body. Could care less about any perceived imperfections or comparisons against her earlier self or some ridiculous magazine models.
> 
> Now there is something post-kids that I do honestly hate and is an active turnoff from time to time - her utter lack of confidence in her body. It means that she's inclined to hide it rather than celebrate it. She gets needless anxiety on how I'll accept it and that means she's unwilling or incapable of really letting go and enjoying. Honestly this fact (and nothing related to her body) makes our sex life a persistent 6/7 vs. the 9/10 it could be. No amount of my praise or expressions of love seems to convince her that I love every inch of her exactly how she is. I've never said anything to lead her to develop these insecurities. It's unfortunately 100% in her head.


A lot of this is true for my wife and me as well. A poor self-image can wreak havoc on a woman's confidence, and confidence is just as sexy and important to us men as well. There's nothing sexier than a confident woman. You don't have to look at all like a supermodel to be sexy, so stop fretting about your perceived imperfections. We ALL have them no matter who you are.

If I ask women what they find sexy about a man, they'll undoubtedly say confidence is huge. The same goes the other way. Do your best to take care of yourself, but always be confident in, and don't be afraid to be, the woman you are. You are doing yourself and your husband a disservice by not truly letting yourself be loved fully if can't lose your insecurities in the moment.


----------



## personofinterest

> they all take tolls on our bodies, but good men are blind to those shallow things.


You just summed it up. This topic separates the men from the boys, quite literally


----------



## Holdingontoit

My wife had 2 beautiful wonderful kids, gained 65 pounds with the second and took none of it off after the birth. I still found her desirable.

Later, my wife had breast cancer. Double mastectomy. Now has scars on both breasts, much smaller breasts, no nipples, and a huge scar on her belly where they made an incision to remove fat to reconstruct her breasts. I still found her desirable.

Recently, she admitted does not enjoy sex and never orgasms. She told me to stop trying to get her "there" and just focus on my own orgasm because nothing I do works for her. That I found intolerable. Now we no longer have sex. Sex isn't as much about the body as it is about the mind.

If you are willing and playful and responsive and your husband does not find you desirable because of the shape or size or texture of your skin, then he is an idiot. There is very little about sagging or cellulite that cannot be resolved with enthusiasm on your part - well, unless your husband is too stupid to realize what a gem her has.


----------



## ConanHub

Angeline said:


> Assuming she has had a child/children:
> 
> How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest!
> Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now?
> 
> ...asking for a friend ; )


Well. Mrs. Conan already had a little boy when I met her and was in great shape. After she gave birth to our second son, she snapped right back into shape and was actually hotter than before. Her figure was still nice and tight but with a little more rounding of her curves.

She is 58 now and still has a sexy little bod that I can't keep my hands off of.


----------



## Taxman

OMG
There has not been a moment in our marriage where I did not crave, desire and want my wife any way I could have her. Sex after both children was great. She had a vaginal delivery with our first, and after six weeks, we were acting like two rabbits. And no, I did not find she was stretced in any way. She had a C-section the second time out, and we were doing oral within a week. BEST OF ALL: Both pregnancies were horrible for her. She was gestationally diabetic with the first, and our fear was pre-eclampsia. Her second, had our son placentia previa, in essence he painted himself into a corner. So after the second, I volunteered to have a vasectomy. (Piss pot easier on the guy, it felt like I had taken a massive kick to the nards for two days, then NO MORE BIRTH CONTROL-bareback ever since-plus, my surgeon found a pre-cancerous lesion on my right nut, and took it out during the procedure. Avoided testicular cancer, that is a plus.)

I have little understanding of men who stop finding their wives attractive after childbirth. My biggest problem with it, is that we had to stop having sex during the problems with her pregnancies.


----------



## Taxman

I want to take one further opportunity to say: My wife has been self-conscious about the stretch marks on both her abdomen and her breasts. She is also a little self conscious about the wrinkles on her beautiful face: I say to her, those are war wounds. In no way are they ugly. They are beautiful, they say to me and the world what she sacrificed to give us children. The face? Who sees them? When I look at her, I still see the drop-dead gorgeous 19 year old from all of those years ago.

PS, for a large percentage of our marriage I was absolutely nothing to look at: I was massively overweight, and she was still attracted to me. Now, in the last ten, I have taken my health seriously, and have dropped most of my weight (15 left to go), I went from 326lbs thereabouts to 189lbs. I have given her a much better looking and healthier guy. (who found 2" under the fat-another toy to play with)


----------



## Seppuku

I find my wife unbelievably attractive - if only she felt the same way...


----------



## Angeline

You guys are pretty amazing...thank you for all of the very interesting insight. It definitely helps to know how you truly feel, the good and not-so-good, (the anonymity of the internet is great!) 

Of course, yes, what I feel about myself is most important...BUT, in the real world, knowing one’s partner feels okay with you, makes a big difference: ) I will always be a work in progress though, as far as how I see myself. 

Fyi- It’s been brought up a few times so FTR, I don’t turn him down, but I don’t initiate that often. I meet him with enthusiasm, yet there are ways I hold back..maybe only I can tell. It has mostly to do with my mental discomfort with being in certain positions, etc. 
For example-foreplay- I LOVE it...but I don’t want my shirt pulled up...only down. I don’t like to be in certain positions that make my stomach look gross...I mean even standing, it’s not good, but certain positions make it seem worse. 
To paint a picture, I am about 115 lbs. and 5’4”, so weight isn’t the issue...just how I look. 
The main thing is- I want to feel free. It’s like being locked in a body that doesn’t reflect ‘me,’ if that makes sense. 
Hearing the coolest thoughts straight from guys who have wives that deal with things like this has been really good for me.


----------



## gr8ful1

In our mid-to-late 40’s now, my wife also has “scars of war” after our 3 children but maintains her athletic shape at the gym - not obsessively but enough to maintain a lovely figure. But what’s become WAY more attractive to me is... ATTITUDE. Specifically, an attitude of sexual desire. There’s nothing sexier than that. I’m convinced that’s the ultimate appeal of porn for many men. It’s not the younger girls & perkier boobs so much as it’s the (granted, artificial) DESIRE the women show for the men they’re with. So... you want to FEEL sexy and BE sexy? Then THINK sexy. Show an over-the-top desire for your husband. He will find nothing more attractive.


----------



## 269370

MAJDEATH said:


> True. Now if we could just get them to leave the light on!


Lights? I never do a 'deep dive' without these!


----------



## TheBohannons

Angeline said:


> Fyi- It’s been brought up a few times so FTR, I don’t turn him down, but I don’t initiate that often. I meet him with enthusiasm, yet there are ways I hold back..maybe only I can tell. It has mostly to do with my mental discomfort with being in certain positions, etc.
> For example-foreplay- I LOVE it...but I don’t want my shirt pulled up...only down. I don’t like to be in certain positions that make my stomach look gross...I mean even standing, it’s not good, but certain positions make it seem worse.
> To paint a picture, I am about 115 lbs. and 5’4”, so weight isn’t the issue...just how I look.
> The main thing is- I want to feel free. It’s like being locked in a body that doesn’t reflect ‘me,’ if that makes sense.
> Hearing the coolest thoughts straight from guys who have wives that deal with things like this has been really good for me.


A blindfold and a little domination might work. He gets to see and you get to "feel free". He wants you. Have some fun with it.


----------



## Luvher4life

Angeline said:


> You guys are pretty amazing...thank you for all of the very interesting insight. It definitely helps to know how you truly feel, the good and not-so-good, (the anonymity of the internet is great!)
> 
> Of course, yes, what I feel about myself is most important...BUT, in the real world, knowing one’s partner feels okay with you, makes a big difference: ) I will always be a work in progress though, as far as how I see myself.
> 
> Fyi- It’s been brought up a few times so FTR, I don’t turn him down, but I don’t initiate that often. I meet him with enthusiasm, yet there are ways I hold back..maybe only I can tell. It has mostly to do with my mental discomfort with being in certain positions, etc.
> For example-foreplay- I LOVE it...but I don’t want my shirt pulled up...only down. I don’t like to be in certain positions that make my stomach look gross...I mean even standing, it’s not good, but certain positions make it seem worse.
> To paint a picture, I am about 115 lbs. and 5’4”, so weight isn’t the issue...just how I look.
> The main thing is- I want to feel free. It’s like being locked in a body that doesn’t reflect ‘me,’ if that makes sense.
> Hearing the coolest thoughts straight from guys who have wives that deal with things like this has been really good for me.


Why do you hide your body? Has your husband said anything negative about it? Do you not let him see you completely nude?

My gosh, girl. You need to get out of your own head, and stop being ashamed. Most men absolutely WANT to see their wife naked and free from self-consciousness. Confidence is sexy. Rock that body!


----------



## Taxman

You know what was liberating for her? We cruise every few years. I take only balcony suites as they allow you to have a private outdoor area all to yourself, and consequently, the first time we made love outdoors since we were 19 was on a cruise. That gave her the confidence to show off a little more in a more revealing bathing suit. It has also translated into us doing it in our backyard. (My entire yard is decked over, and we got carried away in the hot tub, and ended up on the deck beside it.) She wants to lose a little weight (I don't think she needs to, she has it all in the right places), and she may trot out that black bikini for our upcoming cruise. (Mind you we are now both in our 60's, but I would kill to see her in that bikini)


----------



## Angeline

It’s good to hear that attitude has a lot to do with it because at least I can control THAT! 
I tend to have a good attitude about it and like to show him that I desire him. I know I could do better though..my initiating ability is kind of crappy and I’m sure it’s a big deal when it comes to feeling desired. 
Once we’re going though, I’m definitely all in, so he knows for sure I am aroused and happy to be there. 
To answer a question someone posted...yes, I do kind of hide in a way. For example, I’ll change in his presence, but only if he’s at his desk, facing the other way.
If he turns around, I kind of panic. : /
I don’t act all weird, I just turn in a way that makes it harder to see anything.
A day or two ago, I had no pants on (getting pjs on) and he was trying to catch a glimpse of my a**. As a knee-jerk reaction, I said in a partially playful, but kind of serious way, 
“Hey- Don’t look!!” I could tell he was a little irritated about that. 
Reeeeeallly early on in our relationship, (to answer another ?), he did make me feel a little insecure at times. I sometimes wonder if that planted a seed. 
Although, he has grown up A LOT and would never do that now. He has only been positive toward me for many, many years...(we’ve been together 20+ years.)I have also grown up and he knows I have matured into the type of woman who would never tolerate a jerk. 
On another note- there was a mention of a blind-fold. So meaning, me naked and blind-folded!?? Holy Moly. That would be terrifying..I would feel so, incredibly vulnerable and out of control. At least, when I can see him, I can adjust myself depending on where his gaze falls. I can’t protect anything if I’m just out there. The domination part sounds great though. I enjoy giving up control in many ways, so long as it’s pretty dark and my bod is not on display. 
If he ever brought that up and asked to do it in the light. I’d struggle a ton, but if he showed interest in that, I’d give in. He has been pretty conditioned to not bring up any part he knows bothers me. He never touches my stomach nor will he specifically look there. So it feels like he is grossed out by it...which adds to my trepidation about being naked in front of him. 
But it also might be that he doesn’t want me to feel uncomfortable about it, so he focuses elsewhere to keep the good vibes going. 
It’s kind of complex, I guess..


----------



## Taxman

As far as initiating, my wife wasn't very good. I suggested that if she wanted, leave me a note on the table when I get in, telling me there are goodies awaiting me in the bedroom. She did, was waiting in the bedroom, with wearing my favorite outfit: a pair of earrings.


----------



## Angeline

Taxman~ your relationship sounds wonderful. I wish I had the body to wear a cute black bikini...last time I did, I was 18! That’s what I meant by feeling free. I just want to not care about how I look.


----------



## CuddleBug

Angeline said:


> Assuming she has had a child/children:
> 
> How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest!
> Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now?
> 
> ...asking for a friend ; )




- Mrs.CuddleBug is a career woman, so kids in our future is probably not happening. She loves her job and our cat.


- Women all know that having children changes their bodies, weight gain, stretch marks, sex drive, etc.


- I know women that after having their kids, went to the gym, and are in better shape and still have a good sex drive.


- Actually, quite a few ladies I know are just that.


- If she does nothing about the weight gain and stretch marks, then yes, its an issue. But if she takes care of herself, exercise, good diet, that baby weight will come off and the stretch marks will start to disappear or be not as noticeable.


- Every woman is different by how they chose to take care of themselves.


----------



## Angeline

Some women get really lucky and don’t have any obvious indicators that they’ve ever been pregnant. 
But I have do have to comment on the fact that while something can be done about weight, literally nothing can be done for stretch marks. Once weight is reduced, stretch marks will look actually appear more noticeable because of how skin works. 
When I was fully pregnant, they weren’t too noticeable. They were stretched tight and flat. 
It was when my stomach shrunk down that you could really see the texture of them. 
So, just as an fyi...weight is workable, stretch marks though? Nothing can be done other than wait for them to fade from pink to white...and even still the scarred texture will always remain.


----------



## Personal

Or you could just get over yourself and stop dwelling in your own insecurities, by choosing not to build corrosive walls between your husband.

If you want to worry about things that are real. Think about how hiding yourself tells your husband that you don't trust him.

Plus try to stop using your stretch marks as an excuse not to build intimacy with your husband, since it's pretty obvious you would still be hiding in the dark even without those stretch marks.

You should also consider yourself lucky, that your scarring has been earned through the creation of life. Rather than earning scars through almost losing your life through trauma like my wife has, which she can't hide because it's on her face.

Scars... pfft.

Sure life can seriously suck, yet that's no excuse to not appreciate what you have and get on with doing the best with that.

If you want to fix this try talking to your husband about your fears and ask him to go with you on a journey with you where you want to be naked. Then take your clothes off and let your husband enjoy you in the light and then try sleeping naked then shower with him and not scold him for wanting to see you or wanting your shirt down and not up.

Oh and before you carry on saying you can't do that, know that you actually can do that and that not doing that is a choice just as much as doing it is.


----------



## Angeline

It sounds so simple with how you put it. If it were that easy to just “get over it” I definitely would have by now. This is a place to vent our frustrations, so I am doing that. I see it’s starting to irritate you by your comments. You don’t need to read this thread anymore. It’s okay. 
Because, honestly you have zero idea what it is like in my position. Not even close, especially being with someone who also hasn’t gone through what I have..who still looks as if they’d never had kids. You really don’t have a fair perspective on this. 
Scars from c-sections are also a part of what I deal with. I realize many have it worse and many have it better. It’s all relative.
If I could snap my fingers and suddenly decide to not feel my feelings on this, I would in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, that is not reality. So here I am, getting brilliant and encouraging advice from most everyone here, and I am appreciate. I also appreciate most of what you have shared...except for telling a person to just get over something really isn’t helpful.


----------



## Angeline

*appreciative

I’m sorry...saying to “get over yourself” is even worse. Yikes. Thanks anyways.


----------



## Personal

Actually it is pretty simple. If you want to stand up you will choose to stand up. If you want to sit down you choose to sit down. The more practice you have of making the choice to stand up or sit down, the better at it you will get and the easier it will become over time.

One foot in front of the other go on.


----------



## Handy

Personal, man boobs here too, so I don't go without a shirt. I salute you for all you have overcome.

Angeline, sexual attraction from a man's mind isn't all that much about your looks, it is how he feels internally. High school mentality males might talk about wanting perfection regarding the female's body. As people mature, they see less than perfect people they admire and interact with in good ways. After all the guys know they aren't perfect even if they wished they were. A female with personal's attitude would be HOT in my opinion.


----------



## Luvher4life

Angeline, I know you are having self-image issues, but know this. Your husband loves you. He will not be "put off" by seeing your nakedness. As a matter of fact, it sounds to me like he actually would love to see your nakedness, flaws and all. When you love somebody, the "flaws" are not what you see. As they say, "Love is blind."

My wife used to try and hide herself. Through many months of encouragement and talks, she finally started slowly coming out of her shell. Now, she is not shy at all about her body, and I'm thankful for that. No, she doesn't look like she did when we met. I don't care. She still turns me on.

I've also noticed that since she has stopped hiding herself, she has opened up more and more. The sex is better because she is not caught up in her own self-consciousness, and she is much more into it. This can happen to you. You may have to take baby steps to get there, but I know you can overcome this self-loathing state of mind. It will benefit you and your husband. There is absolutely no need to not enjoy life to the fullest. You are limiting your enjoyment as well as your husband's. Take my word for it, he will accept you as you are, flaws and all.


----------



## BigDigg

I think that this is just a hard concept for women to understand - we're in a society that absolutely shoves unrealistic imagery of women everywhere. Media loves to cover men talking crudely about women as well. I can see how they see and hear these things and judge themselves way too harshly.

The truth for me (and I assume many/most married men in love with their wives) is that perfection just doesn't matter much practically speaking. Sure it's nice to look at from time to time, but 100% honest truth i'm not sure I'd ever want to be with some boney model. When I'm with my wife I love the feel of her skin and don't give any thoughts to the "imperfections". I love touching every part of her, even the parts "damaged" through child birth. It just doesn't ever register.

What does actually suck though is that she's fully insecure in herself. It does really put a very real damper on our sex life. It's unfortunate and unnecessary. If I ever remarry for any reason (and all things being equal) i'd absolutely rather date someone comfortable in their own skin vs. someone more physically attractive but insecure.


----------



## Wooodd

@Angeline I've only recently discovered my wife is having real self-esteem issues.

She is suffering really badly with Anxiety and I had everything ass backwards, don't want to go over it all again but there is a post over in general. I really and truly believed that her issues stemmed from her performance as a mother and wife, its not that she is bad at either role just the way she constantly pulls herself down over any job she does. Only last week after years of anguish we finally had a really long chat and she admitted to me that her anxiety is down to her impression of her appearance.

I was blown away, how the fudge. My gorgeous darling L worried about her appearance, no way. Since childbirth she has gained around 2.5 stone (So have I, and I have no excuse) but I honestly hardly even noticed. All I see is my wife, the same sexy lil bish I fell in love with. She is perfection to me, so it never even dawned on me that she didn't see what I saw.

Then I was angry, angry with myself for missing it. If only I would have picked up on it sooner I could have offered support where it was needed. What a dik.

Since the chat though were looking for more help for her anxiety, and starting to rebuild intimacy slowly to try and help her to love herself again.

Does your...... friends ........partner know about these insecurities? You would be amazed how oblivious us men can be at times, I'm still furious with myself. 

Get them to let their SO know how they feel, everything is easier to deal with when its shared. Don't be like us. 

Good luck to your Friend.


----------



## samyeagar

BigDigg said:


> I think that this is just a hard concept for women to understand - we're in a society that absolutely shoves unrealistic imagery of women everywhere. Media loves to cover men talking crudely about women as well. I can see how they see and hear these things and judge themselves way too harshly.
> 
> The truth for me (and I assume many/most married men in love with their wives) is that perfection just doesn't matter much practically speaking. Sure it's nice to look at from time to time, but 100% honest truth i'm not sure I'd ever want to be with *some boney model*. When I'm with my wife I love the feel of her skin and don't give any thoughts to the "imperfections". I love touching every part of her, even the parts "damaged" through child birth. It just doesn't ever register.
> 
> What does actually suck though is that she's fully insecure in herself. It does really put a very real damper on our sex life. It's unfortunate and unnecessary. If I ever remarry for any reason (and all things being equal) i'd absolutely rather date someone comfortable in their own skin vs. someone more physically attractive but insecure.


Even though popularly acceptable, those type of terms are just as pejorative and self image damaging. One doesn't need to tear someone down in order to build another up.


----------



## DustyDog

Angeline said:


> Assuming she has had a child/children:
> 
> How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest!
> Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now?
> 
> ...asking for a friend ; )


Love has many aspects. If you're doing it right, the more intimate, romantic, spiritual, intellectual and emotional parts continue to grow and the physical part becomes less important and you don't even notice changes in appearance.


----------



## BigDigg

samyeagar said:


> Even though popularly acceptable, those type of terms are just as pejorative and self image damaging. One doesn't need to tear someone down in order to build another up.


Sorry to offend. Who am I tearing down exactly? Hope any boney models on the forum or those married to one understand I meant no disrespect.


----------



## samyeagar

BigDigg said:


> Sorry to offend. Who am I tearing down exactly? Hope any boney models on the forum or those married to one understand I meant no disrespect.


Not sure I'd ever want to be with a lumpy housewife. No disrespect meant of course...


----------



## BigDigg

samyeagar said:


> Not sure I'd ever want to be with a lumpy housewife. No disrespect meant of course...


Super astute and pertinent point for this particular thread. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ChargingCharlie

Can't comment on my wife as our kids are adopted, but my last GF had three kids (at the time, the youngest was 3), and I found her sexy. She wasn't skinny by any means (more like curvy), but she kept herself in shape. Her naked body was a turn-on for sure.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Angeline said:


> Some women get really lucky and don’t have any obvious indicators that they’ve ever been pregnant.
> But I have do have to comment on the fact that while something can be done about weight, literally nothing can be done for stretch marks. Once weight is reduced, stretch marks will look actually appear more noticeable because of how skin works.
> When I was fully pregnant, they weren’t too noticeable. They were stretched tight and flat.
> It was when my stomach shrunk down that you could really see the texture of them.
> So, just as an fyi...weight is workable, stretch marks though? Nothing can be done other than wait for them to fade from pink to white...and even still the scarred texture will always remain.


My stretch marks used to bother me and make me feel unattractive...that was mostly in the first few years after having kids when I was very young and just not used to my body looking differently.

After that time though, I did get over it. Mostly because no matter what man I was with, they always made me feel beautiful and I knew they were being genuine. At first it was my husband, but after we split up and I was dating again and then ultimately got married again, all of the men that I was with (didn't sleep with all of them but some saw my stretch marks anyway) made it obvious with their actions that they couldn't care less about my stretch marks. 

I hear what you are saying about what the skin does and there is simply no way to hide the way they sort of crumple up a whole section of your tummy skin...and no, I don't really like it when I look directly at it myself. But I also now don't find it in anyway a problem, because it never has been.

Listen to what the men are telling you. The vast majority of men find women soooooo beautiful generally speaking that stretch marks are literally not even on their radar when seeing a naked woman before them.


----------



## Fozzy

Age is the great equalizer here. If we live long enough, all of us will get to a point where our spouse's body alone isn't what revs our engine. And even while we're young and fit, often our body isn't enough on its own to sustain things.

Attitude is much more important. I'm far more attracted to a woman with the right attitude.


----------



## RandomDude

We can be so self-conscious sometimes, I hate these spots my face, reminds me of when I had a spot on my arm and cut it out with a nail clipper. Now there's spots on my face and don't want to risk it. Was even going to do laser, then I met someone who told me not to, that it adds to my personality, and that she loves all of them as it's part of who I am. At the same time, herself despite being absolutely stunning, is incredibly self-conscious, with make-up and not, about her body, about everything really. Even likes to hide with a mask and doesn't like to go out when her eyes are 'naked'. Yet I loved it, told her that even if she wears a mask I can see right through it, and she can't hide the beauty that lies in her eyes, contacts will just add an unnecessary layer to have to penetrate.

We care too much about our own appearance. It's normal. But it's still stupid. Yet, I think I wanna get these dots still lasered off. Bah!


----------



## TheBohannons

Yt?


Angeline said:


> I tend to have a good attitude about it and like to show him that I desire him.
> 
> On another note- there was a mention of a blind-fold. So meaning, me naked and blind-folded!?? Holy Moly. That would be terrifying..I would feel so, incredibly vulnerable and out of control.
> 
> The domination part sounds great though. I enjoy giving up control in many ways, so long as it’s pretty dark and my bod is not on display.
> If he ever brought that up and asked to do it in the light. I’d struggle a ton, but if he showed interest in that, I’d give in..


Feeling vulnerable and out of control is why you put on the blindfold. Give up control. And dont wait for him to bring this up. YOU BRING IT UP. Dont ask him, just tell him to hold on a second and have him come in the room and see you blindfolded. Have courage and have fun.

Oh, and by the way, your husband is probably not 5'3" with man boobs, so don't let the "small" things get to you. Some people overcompensate because of "lack of size" if you know what I mean.
STBW


----------



## PDXGuardsman

. You’ve got to be kidding me. If you are having to ask yourself and others this question you probably didn’t love her in the first place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. Nail

PDXGuardsman said:


> . You’ve got to be kidding me. If you are having to ask yourself and others this question you probably didn’t love her in the first place.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This one had me scratching my head for a minute until I went back to the Original Post. And you are absolutely right. This is the tragedy of women who are overly self conscious about their own body. No matter what they do to adjust their relationship. No mater how far they travel. They still end up sleeping with the one person who hates their body. And of course you are right she didn't love her body before the rigors of childbearing.


----------



## Ynot

Personal said:


> My wife has had two children, yet she doesn't have loose skin, cellulite or stretch marks and yes I am still attracted to her.


My ex had a child from before I met her and another one with me. As she aged, the stretch marks became more prevalent, she had cellulite on her ass and thighs, her tits began to sag. IMO she made all this worse thru her incessant need to diet without exercise (mainly so she would look good in her clothes, apparently I wasn't worthy of consideration as to how she looked naked). But I still loved her. I even told her I loved her because I knew almost all of those "miles" she had on her body were put there by me. So yes, I was very much attracted to her.
In fact post divorce this is something I sometimes find myself struggling with. I realize than most everyone my age is going to have some mileage on them (including myself) but I just don't feel the same way about that mileage as I once did with my ex. So I can be turned off by saggy tits, or a flabby ass.


----------



## Personal

Ynot said:


> So I can be turned off by saggy tits, or a flabby ass.


Just as you can be turned on by them



Personal said:


> Sometimes beauty is found in and amongst the imperfections, sometimes it isn't.


As you well know it can work both ways depending upon the what, where and when and who.


----------



## Ynot

Personal said:


> Just as you can be turned on by them
> 
> 
> 
> As you well know it can work both ways depending upon the what, where and when and who.


No, it doesn't work that way. I was turned on by my ex because at the time she was my wife, we shared a history, we raised children together, etc. Now, that would not be the case with any new woman I meet. Before I could get to the point of being turned on I would first have to get past the point of being turned off and that would involve far more time than would be allowed to get from point A to point B. I am not investing years of my life with someone who does not turn me on in the hopes that someday she might.


----------



## Personal

@Ynot I was referring to you having once felt that way in saying it can work both ways.

As to your present and future I certainly agree it's not a good idea to invest time on someone who doesn't get you going.


----------



## BluesPower

There is a line in a song, that I think is great...

It talks about her "perfect imperfections"... I just love that line. 

The thing OP should realize is that for most men, when we love a woman, we LOVE THE WOMAN, THE WHOLE woman, even with her "perfect imperfections".

********

Having said that, I also have to brag, that my GF, 60, has perfect tits. Of all of the tits I have seen, hers are the absolute best. It is quite astounding, my guess is that she always wore a bra, and that helped some how. I don't know, but they are astounding. And completely natural. I think it has to do with her French heritage. Which as it turns out, I guess I am into French women, who knew... 

I think that if the were not perfect, I would still love her like I do, but I am not saying that it hurts anything to have those puppies.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> My ex had a child from before I met her and another one with me. As she aged, the stretch marks became more prevalent, she had cellulite on her ass and thighs, her tits began to sag. IMO she made all this worse thru her incessant need to diet without exercise (mainly so she would look good in her clothes, apparently I wasn't worthy of consideration as to how she looked naked). But I still loved her. I even told her I loved her because I knew almost all of those "miles" she had on her body were put there by me. So yes, I was very much attracted to her.
> In fact post divorce this is something I sometimes find myself struggling with. I realize than most everyone my age is going to have some mileage on them (including myself) but I just don't feel the same way about that mileage as I once did with my ex. So I can be turned off by saggy tits, or a flabby ass.


Totally fair and some men feel this way. I'm also not going to be turned on by a big belly, just plain and simple. It is bizarre to me how many times I've heard (mostly by men) that "women are more forgiving about these things". Um...no. A big belly will be a complete turn off to me, no ifs ands or buts about it. And my opinion of what a big belly is apparently is much different than what some men see on themselves. Maybe they think the belly has to be so big they can't see their own feet before it is unattractive or something? To me it can't be bigger than his hips, basically not bulging out over his belt in anyway (not even an inch or two). Bleah.

Then there are the arms, shoulders, and legs. I will be turned off by a guy who has zero biceps, shoulders, ass or skinny legs. 

Yet I know there are some women who can actually get turned on by their husbands who have dad bods, and they aren't just making it up. They love him, he's the daddy of their babies, he's a great husband...all of this counts toward their attraction.

However, most of them would be more attracted to him if he got rid of his belly and added to his muscles. Also, this is something that is under men's control, whereas saggy boobs aren't (other than surgery) and for stretch marks, there's not even surgery that is effective. A flabby ass though, that's something everyone can fix in themselves....some will, some won't. Everyone should do their best to make their ass as fine as possible, IMO.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> Totally fair and some men feel this way. I'm also not going to be turned on by a big belly, just plain and simple. It is bizarre to me how many times I've heard (mostly by men) that "women are more forgiving about these things". Um...no. A big belly will be a complete turn off to me, no ifs ands or buts about it. And my opinion of what a big belly is apparently is much different than what some men see on themselves. Maybe they think the belly has to be so big they can't see their own feet before it is unattractive or something? To me it can't be bigger than his hips, basically not bulging out over his belt in anyway (not even an inch or two). Bleah.
> 
> Then there are the arms, shoulders, and legs. I will be turned off by a guy who has zero biceps, shoulders, ass or skinny legs.
> 
> Yet I know there are some women who can actually get turned on by their husbands who have dad bods, and they aren't just making it up. They love him, he's the daddy of their babies, he's a great husband...all of this counts toward their attraction.
> 
> However, most of them would be more attracted to him if he got rid of his belly and added to his muscles. Also, this is something that is under men's control, whereas saggy boobs aren't (other than surgery) and for stretch marks, there's not even surgery that is effective. A flabby ass though, that's something everyone can fix in themselves....some will, some won't. Everyone should do their best to make their ass as fine as possible, IMO.


I think everybody owes it to themselves to be the best they can be. Not only mentally, but physically as well. I think it sad when you see some slouch shouldered couch potato who has never done anything to improve their physique. 
Everyone can't be Arnold or the Rock, but you can be damned sure they didn't get like playing video games on a couch in their mom's basement all day.
OTOH, this is something that has been getting me down recently. I had to have hernia surgery. Working out was aggravating my hernia, so I went on a month long hiatus. I have had my surgery and cannot wait to get back to the gym/ I haven't gained much weight. but what I have has shifted and I do not like the way I look.
Another one of life's quandaries is why do you guys sporting a keg, imagine they deserve a woman sporting a six pack? And vice versa. I have seen plenty of out of shape chip and dip munching women, expecting a Greek God to show up to wine and dine them.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> I think everybody owes it to themselves to be the best they can be. Not only mentally, but physically as well. I think it sad when you see some slouch shouldered couch potato who has never done anything to improve their physique.
> Everyone can't be Arnold or the Rock, but you can be damned sure they didn't get like playing video games on a couch in their mom's basement all day.
> OTOH, this is something that has been getting me down recently. I had to have hernia surgery. Working out was aggravating my hernia, so I went on a month long hiatus. I have had my surgery and cannot wait to get back to the gym/ I haven't gained much weight. but what I have has shifted and I do not like the way I look.
> Another one of life's quandaries is why do you guys sporting a keg, imagine they deserve a woman sporting a six pack? And vice versa. I have seen plenty of out of shape chip and dip munching women, expecting a Greek God to show up to wine and dine them.


Yeah....the physical mismatch. I think it's fine if you just know you are only attracted to a fit person even if you are fat....sure, we are attracted to what we are attracted to. But to EXPECT the fit person to also be attracted to you is unreasonable. Sometimes they are and there are couples like this who seem to rev each other's engines. But definitely this is not the usual case. Feeling entitled to have anyone be attracted to you or feeling entitled for them to be with you, is just crappy and creepy, whether male or female. If they happen to be attracted to you and not turned off by your lack of fitness, great. Otherwise, find someone who you feel mutual attraction with.

This is also annoying when men feel they can make up for this lack of attraction with money, cars, whatever. Ok, sure you can sometimes "pay" someone to pretend to be attracted to you in this way. But you will be here at TAM after 2 years because she never wants to have sex with you and you will be so confused since the sex was so easy and frequent in the beginning. You will think you were bait and switched but in reality, you knew you were buying her attraction so don't be shocked.


----------



## Angeline

I am so appreciative right now for you guys and your support- it’s so good to get a more broad and honest perspective on this issue. 

I am thinking maybe PDX’s comment might’ve been meant for a different thread because I didn’t quite understand it. 
If it was meant for this one, please elaborate!
I’d love to respond thoughtfully.

Also, I want to be clear on something that seems to get convoluted with all the talk of not loving oneself:
It IS true- I do not love or really even like how my body *looks.* 
I have always had one thing or another that didn’t live up to my own expectations. Even before child-birth, which is just crazy to me now. 
I was f’ing amazing. 

Also true- I love my body and myself! Does that seem weird!? 
It is not lost on me how miraculous my body is in an infinite amount of ways! I often feel deeply grateful for how well it functions and allows me to experience life AND bring life into existence! 

Also, it is very possible to love oneself, yet be discouraged by one’s own appearance. My situation is pretty much that. 

Maybe I have lots of room to grow in that area and would see myself in a more positive light if I loved myself even more? I don’t know. I mean, I would still have eyes and be able to see what is not attractive about me. Soooo....idk. 

I just know that physically, I find it difficult to feel comfortable in my own skin, although I try to not focus on it. 

My husband says to me on occasion, “There’s just something about you..” and although I am not exactly sure what he means, I am guessing that it’s good and that physicalities aren’t affecting him too much so I shouldn’t let them affect me either. God knows I am trying. 

And fyi- he knows I feel like this, yet I don’t talk about it very much so to avoid bugging him and hopefully appearing more confident than I really am.


----------



## Steve2.0

I still find my wife attractive and very sexy. She feels very different about her body and hates the post-baby body she has now.

One major factor, which is a catch 22.... It turns me on the most if she would just accept her body as it is, and be sexual with it.... Hiding the flaws, or wanting the lights off, or turning down positions b/c of visual fears is more of a turn off to me than her actual body.

I went to Costa Rica and there were MANY overweight women there being very sexual with their bodies (tight or revealing clothes) and dancing provocative... I found it sexy and very refreshing... Maybe its a north american thing but my wife is hiding her body that is 2-3x more sexy than those girls who were flaunting it in CRica.

Unhappy with your droopy breasts? Squeeze/lift them together and tell your man to "finish on my breasts" and they will be the sexiest thing on his mind.....


----------



## Mr. Nail

Thanks for the follow up Angeline. What you are experiencing is very common, we hear it everywhere. The commonness of it is part of what makes it such a great tragedy. 

I'm sure a huge factor in all of this is the striving for perfection. When we see a flaw or imperfection we are driven to fix it. The problem is not trying to be better, the problem is our definition of "perfect". We are striving for a level of perfection that is at odds with the reality of our existence. Sure we would all love to be 20 years old until the day we die, but that isn't a very realistic goal. I think we as a whole society need to accept that what we are by age size and so on are perfect enough.

You are in fantastic shape. You have very low BMI. You are emotionally stable. You have a loving husband. You have great kids. The only thing marring your happiness is a bit of age and experience. You should be proud of those, not hide them. You should not see them as imperfections, but as achievement awards. 

Body hate does not improve your body, nor help you in any way.


----------

