# Unsure how to handle 12yo



## Soupnutz (Jul 6, 2011)

Ehh, where to start. We have three kids, 12 and 10yo girls, and a 7yo boy. The 12 year old has had a cell phone for about 7 months or so now. The two rules she had was to keep her grades up, and we, (mom and me), always have access to it. She had three pretty close friends that she was always on the phone with and visiting with, either their houses or ours. I noticed she doesn't hang out with them much anymore. When asked why, all she said was that one of them was being mean, but they are still friends, she just doesn't talk to them as much. 

There is a boy in the neighborhood that they hung out with also, would go to his house school hang out and stuff. His mom was home so we never had an issue with it. My wife goes to pick her up the other day, as the get a house away daughter says she forgot something and has to run in and get it, so she runs back. Instead of waiting there, wife goes back to the house and sees her through the glass front door with her arms around somebody kissing them. The way my wife put it, its not the way you would hug/kiss a friend. It wasn't the boy that lives there either. 

After they get home, my wife tells me. I'm human, I know there's going to be boys and stuff so we go to talk to her. She completely clams up. Says there's no boyfriend, never kissed a boy. Says it was a female friend she was kissing. Even goes so far as to say that all the boys that hang out there are gay, (these are all 11/12 year olds). 

I know she's on all these social media apps on her phone so I tell her it's time to give it up. She proceeds to throw a fit. I have to forcibly restrain her so my wife can get the phone. She has the phone password protected and refuses to give us the code. I had originally set it up with my wifes google account so we would still be able to access it in that event. She went in and set it up to an account she created so we can't get into it at all. At this point she is grounded until she gives us the code.

I decided to let her use my phone once to access one of the apps she uses, (after setting my phone to remember passwords). So after she was done I was able to get into it and read some of her old conversations. From what I can gather, she has dated several boys and is accused of cheating on one of them because she kissed another boy while playing truth or dare. She has a reputation for being a liar amongst her friends, not sure of all the details, but supposedly she has told lies to get another couple to brake up because she liked the boy, and she was accused of stealing money from one her friends, which she admitted to doing to another girl but tells everyone else, and us that she didn't. The three friends I was talking about earlier, in one of the conversations she mentioned that she had done something directly at some point to each of them to make them mad at her. 

My wife talked to one of the girls moms, and she said that her daughter had told her they didn't hang out as much because my daughter started hanging out with weird people and was kissing boys and stuff. This is one of the girls that my daughter had mentioned doing something that made her mad.

Im just not sure what path to take from here. Im going to have a talk with her tonight about honesty and about how if she completely destroys our trust in her it will have negative affects for a long time, and about how its better to accept responsibility and move on. Should I confront her with the info I have so far that I know she has lied about if she still refuses to say anything, should a keep applying the squeeze as far as her being gounded and losing privileges until she breaks and unlocks the phone/talks?

I don't remember having any drama in my life when I was 12 years old. Is it just kids these days or what.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

I have a 13 year old daughter she is pretty open about her life so I don't have any experience with what you are dealing with. 

I think in your shoes I would have the conversations about honesty etc but I would include a lot of , no matter what you've done you can tell me. 

I have a teen age son. Kid has told me some things I wish I didn't have to hear. But he told me without being asked because he needed help. He told me because he knew he would not be punished. He told me because he trusted me to see who he really is and love him anyway. 

That's the feeling you need to start trying to cultivate with your daughter. She is hiding a lot from you what she is doing and herself. She doesn't want you to see who she really is. Why? 

I don't invade my kids privacy but in your shoes , I'd find a way to get into her phone. You need to know what she had gotten herself into to be able to help her and if she won't tell you . You have no other choice.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

At the very least, I think the cell phone should go bye-bye for awhile, while you are sorting through all of this.

And if she ever password-protects it again, it goes into the trash bin.

FWIW, I do think all the technology and social media creates far more drama for kids today.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> FWIW, I do think all the technology and social media creates far more drama for kids today.


It's so much more complicated to grow up now with social media and the bullying and bashing on there. It's like a free for all, 

So much easier when you had to pick up a phone connected to a cord, connected to a wall that was always in a common part of the house. What privacy.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I have two girls...one in their 20s and one in middle teens.

I think the phone always complicates things. I waited until this year to get my youngest one and only got it because I'm a working mom and need to be able to contact her from the office. I waited until my oldest was in university to buy her a phone. Its just really tough to keep up with what they're doing on the phone.

One thing I'd suggest is eliminating social media accounts. There's literally nothing good that can come of them. At 12, she's not really old enough to be on those sites and they are public forum. So things she's posting on there can seriously get her into trouble. There's a lot of bullying and posturing that goes on there that's just unhealthy. My daughter is older than yours is forbidden to join social media accounts (I would never use them myself either so I'm not being a hypocrite...I loathe social media). I also regularly check her phone.

I wouldn't give a rat's ass about her having a fit about the phone. I assume she's not paying for it. I follow the golden rule in my house...I make the gold, therefore I make the rules. When I gave my kid the phone, I told her that I ALWAYS have access to it. The day she puts a password that I can't use on the phone is the day I cancel the account. I also told her that she MUST keep GPS enabled so I can know where she is.

As far as the other stuff goes, I'd consider her activities. She sounds she's got a lot of free time on her hands. Bored teenagers create nonsense to fill their time. I'd get her super busy. My daughter has after school clubs, piano, ballet, and she volunteers at the humane society. I allow her to have sleep overs and sleep over at her friend's houses but only with the parents that I know have similar values to my own and who's kids do well in school. If I don't know the kid's parents...she isn't allowed to hang out there.

I also would start talking to her a lot more. Luckily my youngest is really talkative (my oldest wasn't) but I find that if I prompt her to let me know how her day went when I get home...she'll tell me all about everything she did. It helps a lot. I also will ask her advice on things which prompt her to do the same with me. Basically...we talk and she trusts me not to pass judgment too harshly.

You just have to clearly explain the rules...and when she doesn't obey them, you have to have consequences that you follow through with. When she does well, reward her with something fun...a trip to get her nails done, a new sweater, etc. Girls really respond well to positive reinforcement and they need a lot of affection and ego boosting so they don't look for love in the wrong places. No boy is ever going to love, or cuddle, or tell my daughter how beautiful and smart she is more than I do.

She just sounds like a kid with too much free time and who needs some attention...positive attention. Maybe she's not ready for a cell phone yet either. Its not an age thing...its a maturity thing and she doesn't sound like she's ready yet.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

OP, what kind of phone does your daughter use?


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

This is fairly typical early-teenage behavior. The #1 thing I would really be concerned about here is the fact that she's stealing money. Kids usually do this out of insecurity - someone at school or on Facebook or whatever has something they don't, they feel like they're out of the loop, they don't have the money so they steal it. Or they start shoplifting. You have to fairly vigilant about this, look out for things in her room that you didn't buy for her or you know she couldn't afford with her allowance (if she gets any - if she doesn't, you might want to think about it). I work in a juvie and there are a LOT of young kids who get screwed like this, even for taking relatively small things like makeup and video games. 

But other than that, it's all pretty normal. The experimenting with boys (have you thought about talking to her supposed boyfriend's parents?), fighting with her friends (I can guarantee you that her friends aren't saints, either, just better at hiding what they're getting into). It's only going to get more intense. You just have to learn to be vigilant, stay one step ahead of her, be aware of what she could be doing and how. It helps if you and your wife were crummy teenagers yourselves; my husband and I know all the tricks by now. You also have to be careful in regards to trust and freedom. If you take everything away from her and don't let her do anything, she's just going to find more creative, possibly dangerous ways to do it. For my kids, we try to make them think they have more freedom than they actually do. It's like with my sons, we'd let them go to parties on the non-negotiable condition that we pick them up at 12 and they're not allowed to drink. Do they drink? Of f*cking course, they're at a high school house party. But our end game is that they get home safe so we can watch them for the rest of the night. And they know that if they f*ck up, they're not going to be going out again for a while. They'd rather have that little bit of freedom than none at all, so they're not going to push it. Obviously you're not going to let your 12-year-old go out to parties and drink, but you could follow the principle. 

You also can't expect her to tell you about every single thing that is happening in her life. You have to give her a little bit of privacy. Like reading her messages? That's kind of messed up. I mean, it's understandable in these circumstances because you were caught off guard by her behavior and it freaked you out, but you can't do things like that every time something seems off with her. You can't let her feel like she's living under Stalin, with the secret police watching her every move. She will only end up resenting you, and she'll find ways around I it (my kids learned to delete their browser history without a trace when they were like, infants). She needs to be able to trust you guys just as much as you need to be able to trust her. 

And I agree with what coffee4me said about talking to her - she still won't tell you everything, but hopefully enough that you can get the general idea of what's going on, even if you need to read between the lines a little.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soupnutz (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm having the chain restraints installed in her room later on today.........

We gave her a lot of trust and freedom, too much it seems. Going through messages isn't something I would usually do, but she left me with no other choice on that one. She wont give up any information so I had to get something somewhere. I've talked to her before and told her that all she has to do is talk to me, and that as long as she's honest. Just so different from me, I'm not used to it. I was completely honest when questioned. I had already thought about the consequences whenever I decided to do something and was willing to accept them so I didn't hide from them.

As far as the phone. Its an android. I'm fairly certain she got into it today and deleted anything incriminating. Wife left her home alone with the 7 year old. I had it sitting in my dresser. When my wife got home, she told her she was ready to give up the passcode, (which we haven't messed with yet). I had to go back to work overnight, so I took a nap when I got home and we'll talk tomorrow. I did glance at it. Despite me having powered it off, the battery seems to have dropped from 25% down to 2%, and all the notifications up top had been cleared out. There were several for texts and missed calls and such, and the 7 yo says hes pretty sure she was in our room.

Told her before I left to come back to work that her, wife and me would have a talk tomorrow and she better think long and hard about what she tells me, because it will have long standing effects on her.

Not sure when we'll give it back to her....ahem, let her use it. But me and my wife decided she would get the phone back. We don't have a house phone, so especially when shes there alone she needs something. She wont have access to wifi and the data will be shut off on it. It will only be for calls and for us to gps track if we need to.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

One day you will look back and realize that these were the easy years.

Just wait 5 years, or 10.

You ain't seen nuthin' yet.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Soupnutz said:


> I'm having the chain restraints installed in her room later on today.........
> 
> We gave her a lot of trust and freedom, too much it seems. Going through messages isn't something I would usually do, but she left me with no other choice on that one. She wont give up any information so I had to get something somewhere. I've talked to her before and told her that all she has to do is talk to me, and that as long as she's honest. Just so different from me, I'm not used to it. I was completely honest when questioned. I had already thought about the consequences whenever I decided to do something and was willing to accept them so I didn't hide from them.
> 
> ...


Very smart. Having said that, have you checked w/ your carrier in order to determine whether or not they'd be willing to shut off data service to the phone? I don't know about now, but years ago many of them wouldn't do that. Or maybe they'd have done it but would've still charged you for it...? I dunno. Worth checking into either way.

Also, what's the make and model? You may be able to pull deleted texts, etc from it using a recovery app like Wondershare Dr. Fone...

Wondershare Dr.Fone for Android - The World's #1 Android Data Recovery Software


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

She must understand that SHE is responsible for YOUR happiness. Then she gets what she wants. Period.

We treated our kids like adults from when they were born. Mutual respect. Our job is to make each other happy.

If not there are consequences. If so there are rewards. Always.

Kids are now 21, 23, 28. All have jobs they love, are great human beings and mke us very happy all the time... as we do them.

This must start at birth to be most effective. Heads up all you soon to be parents! You give respect, you get respect.

I'd pull the phone from her and ground her until she "gets it".


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

In the OPs case I would probably lecture the daughter give her some typical consequence and return the phone to her with data intact but only after I've devised a way to track what she's doing. 

That sounds awful and I have never invaded my kids privacy but I've never had reason to. Even when they screw up they tell me. 

The reason I would take it that far in the OPs case is because she fought tooth and nail to keep whatever she's doing a secret, theres no way in heck shes is going to tell the truth now that the evidence is gone, she lies, she stole and she is exhibiting a lot of attention seeking behavior from boys, dumped her friends etc. I would really want to know to what extent my child had carried these things. If it was small stuff she didnt want to fess up to fine. But I'd want to know the extent of what she's doing. 

Better to know what I'm dealing with then be blindsided later. When a child is showing multiple red flags.


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## Soupnutz (Jul 6, 2011)

As far as the data, that's just a matter of logging onto the website and clicking a button. All the data is shared,so it's just a matter of shutting it off to hers, not completely cancelling it. I've had to do it before when she was about to go over the limit. As far as the phone, its a galaxy s2 skyrocket.

We've always tried to treat them with respect. We have them involved in things to keep them busy. Not to the extreme we use to, at one point, sunday was the only day we had where we didn't have to run one of them somewhere.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

Its really tough with kids this age but their right to privacy is really scaled based on trust.

If she's doing things that require extra monitoring than unfortunately she loses some of her rights which she can gain back over time. At 12, she really isn't eligible for full rights to privacy anyway.

The real problem with these phones is that the stuff they do with them can have serious consequences for long periods of time. Ie. sexting, bullying, putting incriminating things into print. Teenagers just don't understand the long-term consequences of what they're doing. Their brain just isn't fully developed yet. I think cutting off her data plan is a great idea for the time being.

But I think you can't forget the positive reinforcement along with the firm discipline. When she goes in the right direction, lavish her with praise and give her lots of love. Girls tend to just need copious amounts of affection so that they don't turn to boys for validation. Hug her, emulate politeness & respect when you talk to her and tell her how proud of her you are when she does good things. All good habits to get into anyway because you've got two more right behind her...lol.

Good luck....kids can be a challenge sometimes.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OP, I have 17 and 13 girls, both with phones and neither with passwords. The phones were privileges they earned. I told them I respect privacy when there is evidence that they are acting responsibly. They were also told that it means I have to see affirmative actions demonstrating their responsibility. In this instance no news will not be the same as good news. Do they do their homework and keep up their grades, do they do their own laundry, help around the house, etc. Only once have I had an issue. The older one was out after curfew and did not text me. I was scared and angry at the same time. It turns out there was a simple logical explanation for her tardiness, and had I been kept in the loop it wouldn't have caused a problem. But she didn't communicate and the phone was taken for a period of time.
You can reel this in, be firm and consistent.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Trust but verify works with kids, too. My daughter knows my having the passcode is part of the deal for having it. Same as her laptop.

I would discuss honesty with her and integrity and that it takes a lot longer to earn it back but very little to lose trust. It might not hurt to talk to her school counselor and ask the counselor to pull her in for a chat about what's going on. 

Pre-teen girls are the worst. Mine is 16 and although girls can still be catty, she's much more secure in who she is and less likely to get sucked into drama. 

I don't know if there is a parental app that prevents them from deleting stuff; you can certainly log into your bill to see a detailed report and confirm stuff was deleted. She may have photos in there, too. 

I also talked with my daughter about how stuff never goes away even snap chat. 

After an appropriate period of time and the aforementioned talks, I would give the phone back and randomly ask her to hand it over at different times and check what is on there. Don't let her take it to school or take it to bed. Only after school/evening so you can keep up with what comes in/goes out.

cutting off data is a good idea but there are so many apps that can't be tracked like kik that data won't stop anything. 

You might want to consider getting some counseling for her; perhaps have a joint session, too. Because parents are stupid (haha tongue in cheek) and kids tend to listen to other adults when it comes to advice because we were never teens and don't understand. 

ETA - you might be able to clone the phone. I'm not tech savvy but I've heard you can get a second phone with the same phone number and it will mirror everything. It will cost more but you will gain some insight. I'm all for snooping if it helps you understand what is going on with her circle of friends and helps you give her good advice without losing trust.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

This is why a 12 year should not have a cell phone. My 14 and 13 year olds are not allowed one.

I'd take it away permanently, she has displayed that she is not mature enough for one.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What I did was just tell my DD that it was my job to show her how to behave responsibly without making bad choices, until she was 18. That she didn't have to like it, but it was my job and I was going to do it. I also told her that she could tell me anything and I would never judge her - I might give her a punishment for doing something wrong so she could learn how to make smarter choices, but I'd never stop loving her or judge her. 

She tested me one time, with some photos sent to a boy, and I gave her an appropriate punishment and continued to monitor her for awhile to make sure she WAS making smarter choices. I told her I'd be monitoring her BECAUSE of what she did. In other words, I used logic because you can't argue logic. I'd given her my trust, she blew it, so now she had to accept the consequences. 

In your case, you give the phone back WITH monitoring installed, you let her know you'll be monitoring her from hereonout, so she's free to learn to start conducting herself like a lady or to choose to continue what she's been doing - stealing boyfriends, lying, stealing, and continue to get more and more consequences. 

You'll have to stay on her like a hawk for the next year or two, until the better choices become her new belief system. You'll have to continue to give real consequences every time you catch her doing something immoral or wrong, so that she comes to equate bad behavior with bad consequences, and decides that's not the way to go. It'll take a lot of work on your part, but it'll pay off for all of you. And you have to do all of this WITHOUT EMOTION. If you let her work you up into anger, she'll shut down and you'll have lost. NO emotion, ok?

In the meantime, read up everything you can find about Authoritative Parenting (not Authoritarian Parenting, which is bad). It's how I raised my DD24, and today I'm her best friend. Because I used logic, trust but also consequences, and unwillingness to waver in my decisions. I told her she had to follow my rules, but she was always welcome to try to change my rules with a logical argument; sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't. But it taught her a lot. Anyway, become the authoritative parent and consistent and fair, and you should be fine.

Characteristics of the Authoritative Parenting Style

And I agree that you need to get her into some type of sport with all that free time she has. Let her choose it, but get her into one.


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