# Where did I go wrong?



## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

So, I have another post about getting ready to divorce, but I really have a lot of questions that are bugging me about my whole relationship. I really want to know if I messed up, or how bad. If nothing else, to possibly help in future relationships.

Beginning early in our marriage, my wife would complain that I didn't spend enough time at home. I had some hobbies that I did spend an average of about 20 hours a week at. Usually 3 nights a week, couple hours a night, and every other Saturday for about 6 months out of the year. Other than this, I was at home. During the biggest part of this time, she was not working, and had no hobbies of her own. I tried to get her to find a hobby, the only one she found was online gaming (think candy crush). I also tried to get her interested in my hobby, while we were dating, she expressed interest in the same hobby. But after we got married, she wanted no part of it. She claims this is why she cheated (ok, but pretty much the ENTIRE MARRIAGE?)

She also claimed that I wasn't affectionate enough after we were married, which is probably true. I am not, nor every been a fan of PDA. I guess I just feel that these should be reserved for the bedroom. Not that I didn't hold hands, or kiss her in public, I felt extremely uneasy with making out in public. I would always give her more of a peck on the cheek. I really didn't dance when we went out. One of the last things, she has been saying I didn't do the things I did to get her. Like rubbing her feet, she says I used to rub her feet all the time when we dated. I really didn't, maybe once every couple months. Not sure where that is coming from.

I always made sure the home was taken care of, I would try to make a little extra money to ensure we could make it through a rough patch. I cleaned, and cooked, washed my own clothes. The only thing she had to do was wash her own clothes, and pay the bills. I did everything else, and began feeling resentful about it. When I would bring it up, she might load the dishwasher once, and then swear at me when I didn't unload it. 

I feel that I am a good catch. I am honest, faithful, and hardworking. Yeah, I probably have a problem with affection. Please pick my story to find out what other problems I have! Be hard on me please, I feel I need it...


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Based on what you wrote, her love languages are quality time and touch, which you apparently didn't fill enough? 

I think many women (men probably too) like a little PDA to show off to the rest of the world. For some people this shows their spouse truly has their back. 

I think it is very risky for a guy to not dance with his W, if that is something she really wants. All kinds of downside risks: you aren't wooing her if you aren't dancing, she may start dancing with other men which invades your intimacy, allowing her to dance with other men is akin to letting her date (a bit over the top maybe), if her love language is touch you are missing a great opportunity to fill that need, etc.

Much of the rest implies to me that you did too much, she too little and she probably makes that to you being a weeny and not standing up for yourself (NMMNG?)


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ok I skimmed your other threads. Your wife has cheated at LEAST three times, and that was you posting FOUR years ago! Imagine what she has done since then that you know nothing about. 

Anyway, you want to know what YOU did wrong?? 

You acknowledge that you were not affectionate. You did nothing to fix it. This was evidently your wife's primary emotional need/love language, and you didn't step up to the plate and fulfill that for her. You thought taking care of the house would work instead. Maybe that is YOUR primary need so you assumed it would work for her too. Wrong answer. This are mistakes that YOU made. HOWEVER. That said... her cheating is 100% ON HER and on her ONLY. If these things were that big of an issue for her, that should have been communicated to you and worked on. If you still didn't step up for her, then she should have ended the marriage instead of stepping outside of it. PERIOD. 

Divorce her. She is a remorseless serial cheat and no one deserves that. 

For future relationships, find someone whose needs line up more with yours, because evidently stepping outside of that is uncomfortable for you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We need more details. Describe your dating period. Were you doing all these hobbies while you were dating, too? Twenty hours a week is a LOT for a married person to spend outside the marriage! Especially when the wife is sitting at home waiting for you to get home. Why isn't she working? She's been cheating the whole marriage? Explain that. How long were you married? Who chose the divorce? if she doesn't work, how's she going to pay her way after the divorce? Kids? Why won't you dance?


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

turnera said:


> We need more details. Describe your dating period.


 We dated for about 2.5 years before we got married. Lived together for most of that time. We had the occasional argument, nothing serious. 



turnera said:


> Were you doing all these hobbies while you were dating, too?


 Yes, I was into this hobby 4 years before we even met.



turnera said:


> Twenty hours a week is a LOT for a married person to spend outside the marriage!


 I may have been a little high. 2-3 hours a night, 2-3 nights a week. Then about 8 hours on saturday 15 times a year. Maybe more like 12-15 hours a week average. Still, you get the idea. Also, this hobby was my time with my friends. We really didn't spend a lot of time together outside of the hobby.



turnera said:


> Especially when the wife is sitting at home waiting for you to get home. Why isn't she working?


 She worked sporadically for the first couple of years, then I paid for her to go to school to get a career. She began working shortly after graduation.



turnera said:


> She's been cheating the whole marriage? Explain that.


 I originally thought there were a couple of instances 2 years after the wedding. I recently found out there were at least 2 more less than a year after we were married, and possible another before we got married. She didn't confess to any of them, I have had to dig out the information.

In fact, I was talking to an acquaintance of ours a few weeks ago, and told him about the cheating I had found. He was blown away, apparently she was telling people we had an open marriage! I couldn't believe it. She had brought it up in arguments before (normally she was complaining I didn't have sex with her enough) and she wanted an open marriage. I refused.



turnera said:


> How long were you married?


 Technically we are still married. I haven't broken any news yet, I'm still living in the house like nothing is wrong. I have been working my butt off trying to find housing, and get an appointment with a lawyer. Plus I don't have the money do just leave. I almost have enough now to get the place I'm looking at. I'm dropping off the background check information with the company today.



turnera said:


> Who chose the divorce?


 Me, but as I said, she doesn't know anything yet... At least I don't think she does.



turnera said:


> if she doesn't work, how's she going to pay her way after the divorce?


 She does work full time now. We make almost the same amount.



turnera said:


> Kids?


 No kids



turnera said:


> Why won't you dance?


 I really don't know. We have slow danced a handful of times. I am very self conscious, and I guess I don't want to look stupid.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Why did you stay after you found out about the cheating?


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I hate dancing too but when you really love your girl and she's looking so good on the dance floor, you have to go out there with her. Otherwise, confident single guys will be lining up to get a feel. 

It doesn't sound like you were that into your wife. Did you think you deserved a better person? Someone that treated you better and looked better?


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why did you stay after you found out about the cheating?


I thought there might be a chance of reconciliation. She cried and begged me not to go, that she was sorry, and it would never happen again. I also thought her cheating was caused by me. Yeah, I know, stupid. This was the first time I found out, which was actually 2 different guys, I just discovered them at the same time. I had to show her proof before she confessed though. As it all turns out, I have evidence of 2 other incidents previous to these that I JUST found... I believe the count is either 7 or 8 different people she has cheated on me with, probably countless times.

She is an expert at lying and manipulation, and I never had a clue.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

GuyInColorado said:


> It doesn't sound like you were that into your wife. Did you think you deserved a better person? Someone that treated you better and looked better?


You know, maybe subconciously I did realize I needed to be treated better. Looks are not the most important thing to me, more how I'm treated.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Yeah, I agree, it should be enough to be honest, hardworking and faithful. Unfortunately that's where most women's expectations begin. Ask yourself what do men require of women that isn't somehow later invalidated as asking too much. You want to make sure that in future relationships that you are more affectionate with her and maybe find a hobby that you both can pursue together.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

jsmith1984 said:


> Beginning early in our marriage, my wife would complain that I didn't spend enough time at home. I had some hobbies that I did spend an average of about 20 hours a week at. Usually 3 nights a week, couple hours a night, and every other Saturday for about 6 months out of the year. Other than this, I was at home. During the biggest part of this time, she was not working, and had no hobbies of her own. I tried to get her to find a hobby, the only one she found was online gaming (think candy crush). I also tried to get her interested in my hobby, while we were dating, she expressed interest in the same hobby. But after we got married, she wanted no part of it. She claims this is why she cheated (ok, but pretty much the ENTIRE MARRIAGE?)


This is all I need to read. 20 hours per week should have been spent with your W and not a hobby. At the very least you should spend 15 hours with your W weekly doing just things with her. You must find things to do together. Not find things for your W to do so you can go do your hobby.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Yeah, what is the hobby? The fact that you don't say it makes me really wonder.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> This is all I need to read. 20 hours per week should have been spent with your W and not a hobby. At the very least you should spend 15 hours with your W weekly doing just things with her. You must find things to do together. Not find things for your W to do so you can go do your hobby.


I spent well over 20 hours a week with her. When she would complain about me not spending enough time with her, I cut back the time I spent away. More time at home. Remember those online games? Turns out she really enjoyed that, because I would sit there, and she would play these games for a minimum of 4 hours a night. Usually, it was more than that.

Also, she would sleep at least 12 hours a day, in fact, she still does on the weekends. The time I was there on the weekends, she was asleep.

I tried including her, every weekend I invited her to go. I think she went 2 times. She wanted to drink and hang out with her friends. This is fine, but she demanded I go as well.

I feel she wanted things a certain way, but was not willing to meet in the middle. It was either her way or no way.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

GuyInColorado said:


> Yeah, what is the hobby? The fact that you don't say it makes me really wonder.


Nascar style racing


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Well i think we can all agree you were treated like crap....having an affair with one guy makes her a cheater who might be getting back at you for not taking care of her needs...7 guys makes her a serial cheater who does not care about your health, your needs, respect for you or the vows. how in the world you can even think to reconcile with her is beyond me. i would certainly tell her to start writing down everything and everyone and tell her there that is just the starting point for any discussion and in the mean time i would file...this way you are not losing time, you can always pull the filing, but this way she knows you mean business. But please don't roll over.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You asked what you did wrong, not what she did wrong. 

She wanted / needed more physical affection and you didn't provide it. I don't know if that extended to your sex life as well, or just public affection. Physical affection is essential to some people to be happy - a partner can be perfect in every other way, but they cannot be happy without this. 

Not your "fault", you are probably just not wired that way, but apparently she is.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

uhtred said:


> You asked what you did wrong, not what she did wrong.
> 
> She wanted / needed more physical affection and you didn't provide it. I don't know if that extended to your sex life as well, or just public affection. Physical affection is essential to some people to be happy - a partner can be perfect in every other way, but they cannot be happy without this.
> 
> Not your "fault", you are probably just not wired that way, but apparently she is.


This is how I am wired. Without physical affection in my relationship, it almost feels like drowning.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

I think some may have misunderstood my position. I am leaving her, for sure. 

I didn't in the past because I hoped there was a chance. After the most recent revelations, I absolutely refuse to subject myself to the emotional torture this has put me through any longer. 

If she had spilled the beans in the beginning, and come clean, it may have worked out. The trickle truth and gaslighting really got me good. Plus I'm fairly sure I have severe co-dependency problems. After all she has done, I still feel the need to help her.

I have to go forward with separation/divorce. I must force myself to do it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jsmith1984 said:


> I have to go forward with separation/divorce. I must force myself to do it.


Good for you, four years is way too long to have subjected yourself to this. Time to move forward.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

uhtred said:


> You asked what you did wrong, not what she did wrong.
> 
> She wanted / needed more physical affection and you didn't provide it. I don't know if that extended to your sex life as well, or just public affection. Physical affection is essential to some people to be happy - a partner can be perfect in every other way, but they cannot be happy without this.
> 
> Not your "fault", you are probably just not wired that way, but apparently she is.


Thanks, I think that hit the nail on the head.

I don't feel as though I need the physical affection, so I didn't give it either.

I felt the sex life was ok. Beginning, we were having sex all the time. Gradually, she began turning down sex, then flat out rejecting it. After months of little to no sex, my drive began disappearing. I didn't want to put out the effort, just to get turned down again. She rarely initiated, it was always up to me. Then, her sex drive shot up, but mine was still almost gone. She began complaining about it, when just a short time before, she didn't want to touch me. I never really recovered my drive. We averaged about 3-4 times a month the last few years.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

And this whole divorce/separation thing has me scared to death. This is, by far, the hardest thing I have ever done. I like having a plan, and with this, the plan has gone out the window every day.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

jsmith1984 said:


> I felt the sex life was ok. Beginning, we were having sex all the time. Gradually, she began turning down sex, then flat out rejecting it. After months of little to no sex, my drive began disappearing. I didn't want to put out the effort, just to get turned down again. She rarely initiated, it was always up to me. Then, her sex drive shot up, but mine was still almost gone. She began complaining about it, when just a short time before, she didn't want to touch me. I never really recovered my drive. We averaged about 3-4 times a month the last few years.


Of course, she was meeting that need with OM.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

jsmith1984 said:


> I spent well over 20 hours a week with her. When she would complain about me not spending enough time with her, I cut back the time I spent away. More time at home. Remember those online games? Turns out she really enjoyed that, because I would sit there, and she would play these games for a minimum of 4 hours a night. Usually, it was more than that.
> 
> Also, she would sleep at least 12 hours a day, in fact, she still does on the weekends. The time I was there on the weekends, she was asleep.
> 
> ...


Oh hell dude, I see she cheated several times. Serial cheater. Me thinks there is nothing you could have done differently in that case. It as going to happen no matter what you did. Sorry you were treated this way.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In the future just be aware of it. There are lots of people who are happy with a modest amount of sex. Others simply cannot be happy without a very active passionate sex life. As long as people are compatible, anywhere on that scale is great. 

I don't know why she was turning you down early on, but maybe her sexual interests were different from yours. 

If people are not compatible then really nothing else can fix the problems. The high desire person simply cannot understand why the LD is so selfish. the LD simply cannot understand why the HD is unhappy when everything else is great. 



In future relationships figure out early if you are compatible. 




jsmith1984 said:


> Thanks, I think that hit the nail on the head.
> 
> I don't feel as though I need the physical affection, so I didn't give it either.
> 
> I felt the sex life was ok. Beginning, we were having sex all the time. Gradually, she began turning down sex, then flat out rejecting it. After months of little to no sex, my drive began disappearing. I didn't want to put out the effort, just to get turned down again. She rarely initiated, it was always up to me. Then, her sex drive shot up, but mine was still almost gone. She began complaining about it, when just a short time before, she didn't want to touch me. I never really recovered my drive. We averaged about 3-4 times a month the last few years.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jsmith1984 said:


> I may have been a little high. 2-3 hours a night, 2-3 nights a week. Then about 8 hours on saturday 15 times a year. Maybe more like 12-15 hours a week average. Still, you get the idea. Also, this hobby was my time with my friends.
> 
> I really don't know. We have slow danced a handful of times. I am very self conscious, and I guess I don't want to look stupid.


So you worked full time, came home, and spent nearly the whole night, half of every week, with OTHER PEOPLE? Just after you got married? I assume you did that before you were married as well?

And on top of that your low self esteem keep you from interacting with her in fun ways? You just 'lived?'

You realize, right, that when you get married, your 'time with your friends' goes to the BACK of the list, not the front?

No wonder she was unhappy.

There's a great book about this called Hold On To Your N.U.T.s that you might want to read.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks for a little tough love. I realize I spend a lot of time away, and I did try to give her more time when I was home.

What would a normal amount of time be to spend on a hobby? Also, what about friends? 

I know that I was a contributer to the failure of the marriage as a whole, but is it normal in these circumstances for someone to go cheat?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A normal amount of time with friends, assuming you both work, would be about 4 to 5 hours a week.

Because that's what marriage IS - dedicating yourself to the MARRIAGE.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

I've been sitting here thinking about it. I took a year and a half off from racing, to focus on the marriage. 2 of the affairs happened during this time. This was over 4 years ago, and I just found out ( literally this past saturday). I just put 2 and 2 together. Wtf


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So...you're trying to rationalize that the time you focused on her is when she cheated?


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Not trying to rationalize anything, I just realized this. These two guys were "friends" with my wife, and they would hang out, with what I thought were other friends. Turns out it went a little deeper than friends. I have only asked her to not hang out with one guy since we have been together, because everytime we were around him, he professed his love for her and tried to get her to leave me. I always trusted her to not cheat, even after I discovered her cheating, I still trusted her to chill with her friends.

As I said, not rationalizing, just stating the facts.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And ignoring that you basically ignored your wife because your hobbies and friends were more important.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It is not your fault that your wife cheated. If you were not meeting your wife's needs and it was so bad for her, she should have divorced you and moved on. There is absolutely no excuse for cheating. Whatever you did wrong was the reason your wife cheated. Your wife cheated because she doesn't have the character for dealing with things appropriately.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

No, I'm not ignoring that fact at all. Just stating what happened. I still disagree that cheating was the right way to handle the situation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

As do I. But that doesn't absolve you of the steps leading up to it.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

I agree 100%. This is what I am here for, to hopefully repair any chances I have of a future relationship.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So now you know. Your wife and family deserve 98% of your life.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

You really have to examine the lifestyles you've both led? Were they compatible with a marriage or were they still a continuation of a singles lifestyle? Socializing, mixing it up and bonding with friends as much or more than your SO? Hobbies are healthy, but there's a goal to a marriage and it's not singular. Look, if your hobbies and friends are taking up too much time and you W is alone....well you know what happens... and for her, I mean really, if she was with 7 or 8 OM, where did she have time for that and a husband in those few short years?

Here's the rest, it's the same as you were advised four years ago... 

*She's not marriage material. 

Her cheating is not your fault. 

Get rid of her.

Learn how a marriage works.

Find a partner who wants to be with "you"* 

Here, these are for your future... NMMNG and A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


Best


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It is possible for you both to have made mistakes, both to be at fault. At its core though I think you were incompatible, and even with the best effort by both it might not have lasted.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@jsmith1984 How she would justify her cheating to her friends:- "And he... well... duh... and things! Yeah! Things made me cheat!

"Anyway, don't you think I did good to get a husband AND 7 boyfriends when I am only like, 12 years old?"

"Uhhh, honey you are actually 36?"

"Bwaaaah! But I don't want to be growed up!"

And she isn't growed up. Is she?

And had you not gone and done your hobby? She would have cheated because you were too stifling and stuff.

She cheated because she could and because she wanted to.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

jsmith1984 said:


> Thanks for a little tough love. I realize I spend a lot of time away, and I did try to give her more time when I was home.
> 
> What would a normal amount of time be to spend on a hobby? Also, what about friends?
> 
> I know that I was a contributer to the failure of the marriage as a whole, but is it normal in these circumstances for someone to go cheat?


Stop defending yourself against unfair accusations.

Your wife knew your hobby *BEFORE* she married you and willingly married you anyway. It's not like you were super boyfriend, super fiancee, then the minute you got married you suddenly dedicated yourself to drag racing. So stop defending yourself that your hobby and your friends are what caused your SERIAL CHEATING wife to do what she did.

She sounds like a complete liability, to be honest. She brings *nothing* to the table. Sleeping 12 hours a day? Not working outside the home but not doing anything INSIDE the home except her own laundry? _Seriously_?

She does* nothing* productive at all with herself and has cheated on you with 7 or 8 men over the last 4 years, and YOU'RE the bad guy because you weren't attached to her hip 98% of the time? What hogwash.

Why in the hell you'd even want to salvage this utter trainwreck is beyond me. What - she hasn't disrespected you enough?

What's the magic number before you finally stop the bleeding - 10 guys? 12? 15?

Find your self respect and divorce this worthless woman. She's a plague.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Sorry to disagree with some on here. We all need time with friends. She spent time with friends as well but decided to start sleeping with them. This is not the Jsmiths doings. She is the one that cheated, OP has nothing to do with it. She supported his hobby before they were married then stopped afterwards.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Two to three nights a week? After working full time? No marriage is going to survive that.

I'm not justifying her cheating. But the title of the thread is where did *I* go wrong, not is she a b&tch. So I'm providing him education on how NOT to have a marriage - by putting your friends and hobbies first.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Why in the hell you'd even want to salvage this utter trainwreck is beyond me. What - she hasn't disrespected you enough?
> 
> What's the magic number before you finally stop the bleeding - 10 guys? 12? 15?
> 
> Find your self respect and divorce this worthless woman. She's a plague.


The process is in the works as we speak. Waiting on a call today for a lease on a house, and I'm moving out. Very few people know what is about to go down, and I like it that way. Once we are separated for 6 months, the divorce will be final.

I have began the process once before, but didn't have the balls to go through with it. After this last episode, it was like a light switch turned off. I checked out right there. I hate her with every fiber of my being right now, I hope that with time I can forgive her, not for her, but me.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> @jsmith1984 How she would justify her cheating to her friends:- "And he... well... duh... and things! Yeah! Things made me cheat!


You know, I have heard almost the same exact thing on more than 1 occasion. What has happened is we will be hanging out with mutual friends, and her past infidelities come up. She tells them that I forgave her, because I realized that I was the one at fault for her cheating. I heard this at least 5 times, on separate occasions. Made me so damn mad.





MattMatt said:


> And she isn't growed up. Is she?


 No



MattMatt said:


> And had you not gone and done your hobby? She would have cheated because you were too stifling and stuff.


Heard that too, I need to leave for a few hours, she needed some alone time.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> jsmith1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for a little tough love. I realize I spend a lot of time away, and I did try to give her more time when I was home.
> ...


I was gonna say the same thing. She knew full well the activities you participated in prior to marriage. It was the same for me. My W knew I was in the military and there was a great chance that I would have been gone for extended periods of time. She knew it and accepted it. Your W was the same.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

jsmith1984 said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > @jsmith1984 How she would justify her cheating to her friends:- "And he... well... duh... and things! Yeah! Things made me cheat!
> ...


It is so funny how the cheaters like to control the narrative with mutual friends. She should have said "I cheated because I was selfish, bored, and/or jealous of his hobby. I am very lucky he was willing to take me back, on the condition that I apologize, take responsibility for my choices, and agree to never do that again."


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

IMO, your biggest mistake was that you were not friends. If you had been friends - best friends - none of this bad or ineffective communication would have gone on and you both would have talked things over to get to some mutually satisfactory solutions.


> Beginning early in our marriage, my wife would complain that I didn't spend enough time at home. I had some hobbies that I did spend an average of about 20 hours a week at. Usually 3 nights a week, couple hours a night, and every other Saturday for about 6 months out of the year. Other than this, I was at home.


She probably did not know how to tell you that she wanted QUALITY time when you were at home. Just being at home is not necessarily QUALITY time - that is packed with fun, love, attention, friendship, pleasure, affection, caring, happiness, excitement, etc. Here again, your biggest mistakes were in not learning how to communicate better and more clearly which many folks do not know how to do.



> But after we got married, she wanted no part of it. She claims this is why she cheated (ok, but pretty much the ENTIRE MARRIAGE?)


Well, that is all about a serious lack of FRIENDSHIP where the unfriendly partners begin going there own way to find some kind of love and acceptance wherever they can.



> She also claimed that I wasn't affectionate enough after we were married, which is probably true.


Many folks fail in this area due to a disinterest in LEARNING HOW to be affectionate and satisfy their love-starved partners. I was somewhat unaffectionate but after reading a few Relationship books, I took the time to LEARN HOW to be affectionate for my best-friend wife.



> I am not, nor every been a fan of PDA. I guess I just feel that these should be reserved for the bedroom.


There are dozens of ways to be affectionate without in public but you'd have to WANT to study and learn that. Google: Relationship Skills and learn how.



> Not that I didn't hold hands, or kiss her in public, I felt extremely uneasy with making out in public. I would always give her more of a peck on the cheek. I really didn't dance when we went out. One of the last things, she has been saying I didn't do the things I did to get her. Like rubbing her feet, she says I used to rub her feet all the time when we dated. I really didn't, maybe once every couple months. Not sure where that is coming from.


That is coming from her very ineffective and inarticulate way to try to tell you what she wants from you and the relationship. Many folks lack the vocabulary and words to express their needs and desires so it usually comes out as a string of complaints in hopes that their partner will somehow "get the message" and fulfill their desires. It's just bad, ineffective communication which Relationship Skills can easily clear up if the partners want to make the effort to LEARN SOMETHING!



> I always made sure the home was taken care of, I would try to make a little extra money to ensure we could make it through a rough patch. I cleaned, and cooked, washed my own clothes. The only thing she had to do was wash her own clothes, and pay the bills. I did everything else, and began feeling resentful about it. When I would bring it up, she might load the dishwasher once, and then swear at me when I didn't unload it.


Once resentments, hostility and swearing enters a relationship, it's pretty much over UNLESS the partners LEARN HOW to apologize and repair any damages that have occurred in the relationship. If the partners start off as BEST & RESPECTFUL FRIENDS, getting through tough times will be both easy and fast. If the friendship becomes damaged, they are more likely to get back to love, respect and friendship than the majority of partners ever do.



> I feel tat I am a good catch. I am honest, faithful, and hardworking. Yeah, I probably have a problem with affection.


Study up on relationship skills and read a few relationship books AND THEN you might become a "good catch" but right now, you have no clue how to be a good partner for anyone, IMO. :frown2:


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Read No More Mr Nice Guy and stop beating yourself up about "what you did wrong"

She's a serial cheat. No doubt she would have found a reason to blame you for her cheating while not taking responsibility for banging 7 to 8 dudes.

7 to 8 dudes didn't just trip and fall into her, unless you tripped them, then your totally to blame.

How ridiculous was that last line? Pretty ridiculous? Good so stop blaming yourself.

Cut the cord, move on and in the next relationship be a good partner but also watch for them red flags.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Whether it's normal to cheat depends on the character of the individual, though I personally believe that most people are actually somewhat capable of it under the right circumstances.

That's why boundaries are so imprudent. 

It doesn't sound like either of you are marriage material right now. She's a serial cheat, and you are pretty much about you until it suits you to have a wife. 

If your wife says you're not spending enough time together and she doesn't feel loved, as in she needs more affection, you should take her seriously. 

The only affection she got was in the bedroom? That makes a woman feel like a convenient warm body. 

If you don't wish to act like a hb then don't get married. 

Or find someone who doesn't require affection. But please know that a woman who doesn't want much affection probably won't want much sex, because that's how most of us think


Your next relationship may not involve cheating, but putting your hobbies and friends above the needs of your woman will upset most of them. 

Her cheating is a separate issue.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> It is so funny how the cheaters like to control the narrative with mutual friends. She should have said "I cheated because I was selfish, bored, and/or jealous of his hobby. I am very lucky he was willing to take me back, on the condition that I apologize, take responsibility for my choices, and agree to never do that again."


This thread must hurt some MD. You do know what you are talking about. Good to see you pasting.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

She told everyone that you have an open marriage. You don't agree to this open marriage of her imagination. Time to move on and call it a day. Seven to eight affairs is a pattern of serial cheating. Sorry you are here.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

turnera said:


> Two to three nights a week? After working full time? No marriage is going to survive that.
> 
> I'm not justifying her cheating. But the title of the thread is where did *I* go wrong, not is she a b&tch. So I'm providing him education on how NOT to have a marriage - by putting your friends and hobbies first.


Sorry turnera, I was in the same hobby. My wife knew I wanted to do this. Her dad was big in drag racing until he passed away. She was at every one of my races. She supported me. 

Then my first was born. Then my wife said I need more help with things at home. She came to me and told me what she was needing. I gave her what she was needing, more of my time, a lot more. OP's wife never did this she just stopped. He did his thing and she did her own. She never gave him the chance to be there for her. Instead she cheated.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sounds like mostly you married wrong. Next time try to incorporate your wife into your hobbies if possible.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ABHale said:


> Sorry turnera, I was in the same hobby. My wife knew I wanted to do this. Her dad was big in drag racing until he passed away. She was at every one of my races. She supported me.
> 
> Then my first was born. Then my wife said I need more help with things at home. She came to me and told me what she was needing. I gave her what she was needing, more of my time, a lot more. OP's wife never did this she just stopped. He did his thing and she did her own. She never gave him the chance to be there for her. Instead she cheated.


As I've said before, we aren't discussing what she did. The thread is him wanting to know what HE could have done differently.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

turnera said:


> As I've said before, we aren't discussing what she did. The thread is him wanting to know what HE could have done differently.


But I maintain he did not go wrong. She is the one that failed to communicate. He was in this hobby when they meet. 

In the future, yes come out and talk about time spent together with hobbies. Also date nights and weekend get a ways. 

But there was nothing he could've done to keep her from cheating.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

I know from an outsiders' perspective, the racing family makes no sense. Long hours, time spent away from home, doesn't seem worth it. Most of the guys I am with working on these cars are closer than some of my family members. They literally put their lives in my hands every time they strap in.

Now, having said that, I know I did spend a lot of time away, which contributed to the failure of the marriage. She spoke to me a few times about it, I admit. I accept 100% of the responsibility for the lack of communication.

In my defense, when we were dating, it was never a problem. When we first met, she thought it was so cool. Very soon after we got married, her tone changed. I felt it was unfair to me, but I did not communicate my feeling.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

jsmith1984 said:


> I know from an outsiders' perspective, the racing family makes no sense. Long hours, time spent away from home, doesn't seem worth it. Most of the guys I am with working on these cars are closer than some of my family members. They literally put their lives in my hands every time they strap in.
> 
> Now, having said that, I know I did spend a lot of time away, which contributed to the failure of the marriage. She spoke to me a few times about it, I admit. I accept 100% of the responsibility for the lack of communication.
> 
> In my defense, when we were dating, it was never a problem. When we first met, she thought it was so cool. Very soon after we got married, her tone changed. I felt it was unfair to me, but I did not communicate my feeling.



Well apparently you did not read the rules of marriage...First rule of marriage.....when you are dating someone and they know you have a hobby...they will fall in love with that hobby....they will not ask you to change at all.....UNTIL... you get married to that same person, you will be asked at the beginning if you can back nicely until such time as they find it intruding on their lives and you will be asked to discontinue the hobby all together or they will get back at you and blame you ....BTW that also goes for your friends.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jsmith1984 said:


> I know from an outsiders' perspective, the racing family makes no sense. Long hours, time spent away from home, doesn't seem worth it. Most of the guys I am with working on these cars are closer than some of my family members. They literally put their lives in my hands every time they strap in.
> 
> Now, having said that, I know I did spend a lot of time away, which contributed to the failure of the marriage. She spoke to me a few times about it, I admit. I accept 100% of the responsibility for the lack of communication.
> 
> In my defense, when we were dating, it was never a problem. When we first met, she thought it was so cool. Very soon after we got married, her tone changed. I felt it was unfair to me, but I did not communicate my feeling.


IMO, that's because when you're just dating, you haven't fully committed to each other, to put your 'couplehood' above all else. I imagine she expected you to shift gears (see how I did that?) to focus more on the marriage.

That said, a serial cheater is a totally different animal - one who is selfish or amoral. So don't beat yourself up too much.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

turnera said:


> IMO, that's because when you're just dating, you haven't fully committed to each other, to put your 'couplehood' above all else. I imagine she expected you to shift gears (see how I did that?) to focus more on the marriage.
> 
> That said, a serial cheater is a totally different animal - one who is selfish or amoral. So don't beat yourself up too much.


That is what I have a hard time with. If she truly wanted to spend more time together, that's one thing. I did take some time off, didn't make a difference. She was still complaining, albeit about different stuff. Did she act like this to try and blame me for her cheating? I'll probably never know...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then she was just a selfish, amoral B to begin with.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ABHale said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > It is so funny how the cheaters like to control the narrative with mutual friends. She should have said "I cheated because I was selfish, bored, and/or jealous of his hobby. I am very lucky he was willing to take me back, on the condition that I apologize, take responsibility for my choices, and agree to never do that again."
> ...


I definitely have some real world experience in this area. Hopefully the OM that were sharing sexy time with the OP's wife were not mutual friends and acquaintances. That makes spending time and having them over for dinner somewhat awkward!


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## pattyreed2011 (Nov 28, 2016)

jsmith1984 said:


> So, I have another post about getting ready to divorce, but I really have a lot of questions that are bugging me about my whole relationship. I really want to know if I messed up, or how bad. If nothing else, to possibly help in future relationships.
> 
> Beginning early in our marriage, my wife would complain that I didn't spend enough time at home. I had some hobbies that I did spend an average of about 20 hours a week at. Usually 3 nights a week, couple hours a night, and every other Saturday for about 6 months out of the year. Other than this, I was at home. During the biggest part of this time, she was not working, and had no hobbies of her own. I tried to get her to find a hobby, the only one she found was online gaming (think candy crush). I also tried to get her interested in my hobby, while we were dating, she expressed interest in the same hobby. But after we got married, she wanted no part of it. She claims this is why she cheated (ok, but pretty much the ENTIRE MARRIAGE?)
> 
> ...


What would youv think if you had a daughter who married a man that didn't work and didn't have a life. What would you think about him? I would think she married a bum. 

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Hopefully the OM that were sharing sexy time with the OP's wife were not mutual friends and acquaintances. That makes spending time and having them over for dinner somewhat awkward!


Actually, almost all were acquaintences. And I had no idea. And yes, they did hang out here some. 
I have a very small, close circle of true friends. These are friends I can trust with anything. None of the om were in this circle.


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## pattyreed2011 (Nov 28, 2016)

She's a lazy manipulator who's trying to make you feel guilty and it's working.

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


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## pattyreed2011 (Nov 28, 2016)

I remember a few years ago I overheard a bad looking lady saying that she had her husband with a "leash". What kind of leash could that be? Manipulation, threats, etc.

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

jsmith1984 said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > Hopefully the OM that were sharing sexy time with the OP's wife were not mutual friends and acquaintances. That makes spending time and having them over for dinner somewhat awkward!
> ...


Even if you were to entertain the possibility of a Reconciliation, the first step would be to establish boundaries and remove all contact with any previous OM.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> Even if you were to entertain the possibility of a Reconciliation, the first step would be to establish boundaries and remove all contact with any previous OM.


There's an irony here, but I just can't quite put my finger on it.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Even if you were to entertain the possibility of a Reconciliation, the first step would be to establish boundaries and remove all contact with any previous OM.


No chance in he11 I would do that. I might get screwed in the divorce, but thats the chance I'll have to take.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

jsmith1984 said:


> No chance in he11 I would do that. I might get screwed in the divorce, but thats the chance I'll have to take.


So your wife cheated with your good friends and you want to keep them around? Why divorce if that is how you feel. Just admit that you are in an open marriage, but you will find that she is a lot more "open" than you will ever be at your age.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> So your wife cheated with your good friends and you want to keep them around? Why divorce if that is how you feel. Just admit that you are in an open marriage, but you will find that she is a lot more "open" than you will ever be at your age.


I think something has been misconstrued here. They were not my "friends". I really didn't like them anyway, just something I didn't trust (easy to see now). I hung out with them a few times because they were "friends" with my stbxw. The "no way in he11" was for reconciliation. If she was truly sorry, after the first incident, I may have thought about it. But the last several years she was just using me. Of course I see this now


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> So your wife cheated with your good friends and you want to keep them around? Why divorce if that is how you feel. Just admit that you are in an open marriage, but you will find that she is a lot more "open" than you will ever be at your age.


And we can throw this right back at you, Maj...


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

It's normal to do some self reflecting when a marriage is falling apart. But even if you were a 100% perfect husband you'd probably still be in the same situation. I also did a lot of reading during and right after my divorce and found out things that I could improve on. But, my biggest issue was I married a sh!tty person and there was nothing I could have done to improve myself that would have fixed that problem other than taking out the trash. 

The best books I read were MMSLP and Mating in Captivity. You might want to check them out.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

pattyreed2011 said:


> I remember a few years ago I overheard a bad looking lady saying that she had her husband with a "leash". What kind of leash could that be? Manipulation, threats, etc.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


*If a person has to be "leashed" or even has to bandy one on somebody else, then exactly what kind of a relationship is that?

Certainly not one that I'd ever desire to be a party to!*


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

jsmith1984 said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > So your wife cheated with your good friends and you want to keep them around? Why divorce if that is how you feel. Just admit that you are in an open marriage, but you will find that she is a lot more "open" than you will ever be at your age.
> ...


Sorry, I missed your reference. So R is off the table for sure?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > So your wife cheated with your good friends and you want to keep them around? Why divorce if that is how you feel. Just admit that you are in an open marriage, but you will find that she is a lot more "open" than you will ever be at your age.
> ...


I have my own crosses to bear, but definitely "no contact" with any former OM.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

So, she texted this evening, wanted to know if I could come over to discuss a few things. She has a breakdown, and wants to work it out. I'm not fully convinced it could work. 

I want her to post on here and get everyones opinion on the matter. 

Anybody have an issue with that?


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Yea big issues. This is your space to think and vent. Send her to divorce busters, marriage builders or surving infidelity to read and post.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Note: None of the sites I mention condone adultery. Many here feel they are full of ****, allow WS off to easy, offer poor advise, but bottom line none believe adultery is ever justified.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jsmith1984 said:


> So, she texted this evening, wanted to know if I could come over to discuss a few things. She has a breakdown, and wants to work it out. I'm not fully convinced it could work.
> 
> I want her to post on here and get everyones opinion on the matter.
> 
> Anybody have an issue with that?


She's a serial cheater. Why would you reconcile with that?

Give her some space. Lots of it. She hasn't hit rock bottom yet, not even close. Until then, if you cave even a little, she'll be back to her normal self within weeks. See if she can go three months and still want the same thing. 

It's fine if she comes here, but she's not going to like what she hears. Of course, if she gets butt hurt and runs, you'll know she's not sincere.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

turnera said:


> She's a serial cheater. Why would you reconcile with that?
> 
> Give her some space. Lots of it. She hasn't hit rock bottom yet, not even close. Until then, if you cave even a little, she'll be back to her normal self within weeks. See if she can go three months and still want the same thing.
> 
> It's fine if she comes here, but she's not going to like what she hears. Of course, if she gets butt hurt and runs, you'll know she's not sincere.


I don't know if I want to reconcile or not. I told her we both have major issues that need to be worked out, and I'm not rushing it. She claims to be committed to try to fix herself. To be perfectly honest I'm skeptical. 

I'm halfway through reading No More Mr. Nice Guy. The whole book is almost written exactly about me. It's uncanny.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Also, I'm still living separated.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I had a dollar for every man who said that about NMMNG after we referred it, I'd be rich. I'm glad it's helping. After you read that, also read Married Man Sex Life Primer and then Hold On To Your N.U.T.s.


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## Grapes (Oct 21, 2016)

Been following your thread in the considering divorce section. This is all so very fresh. Shes freaked out by your strength. Dont back down and keep your frame! Dont backtrack. 

I wouldnt have any conversation with her, she doesnt deserve that closure, right now at least. Shes a liar, and a very good one. You know that! You WILL be lied to. Do you want to put yourself through that?

Was she breaking down while having an affair? Was she ever concerned for you and your family? NO.. she is now because sh1t hit the fan. its about HER not you. You dont need that in your life.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

JohnA said:


> Yea big issues. This is your space to think and vent. Send her to divorce busters, marriage builders or surving infidelity to read and post.


Big mistake to get her on this site. She's been lying through her teeth to you and will stay one step ahead of you by reading everything you post and what you are told.

bad bad idea


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Just let her go. You are only asking for more wasted time with drama and heartache if you attempt to R. She doesn't deserve that chance, and you don't deserve that pain.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Talked to lawyer today. Went very well, he said it should be no problem at all. I asked him about since I had moved out, could I be found guilty of desertion, he said no judge in their right mind would go for that given my situation. 

He said I have to wait 12 months, and if divorce is what I want, I give them $600, they get the paperwork together, deposition, and probably never have to even go to court.

I'm going to tell the wife to post on marriagebuilders, I'm curious what she is going to write, and how she will handle it...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I would send her to SI over MB.

There are a couple of former wayward wives over there that will steer her straight, assuming that is possible.


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## jsmith1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Ok, I'll send her over there then. 

She texted today saying she has an initial appointment with a counselor, we shall see. I'm looking at actions over words.


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