# I am desperate for some advice



## lkjhgfdsa (Mar 5, 2013)

I have been married 20 years and have children that are 15 and 16. I, like many new fathers, felt a bit displaced and missed the attention of my wife when the kids were born. I managed fairly well thinking that some day things would change but they have just gotten worse. I thought it was going to be my wife and I and the children and it is more like my wife and the children and me. My children basically do not socialize outside of school. They stay in their rooms on the computer till mom comes home and then generally spend the evening talking to her. She takes them shopping every Saturday. My kids have never been to the movies or a fast food restaurant without mom. I tried taking the kids to do stuff with little success because I feel they only wanted to be with mom. I tried going with them but always felt like I was just tagging along. My wife and I went many, many years without going on a date and would probably go for weeks without more that a five to ten minute conversation a day. A couple years ago I started to boil over and we began fighting about it. While she has made some effort she has also said things that are a bit hard to deal with. She said she is not my girlfriend and that I rely on her too much and I need to get my on life. She said that I was a bad father and compared me to animal fathers that eat their young. She has said that the kids will always come first. She has said that if I ever cheated on her she would leave me immediately. I haven't but my interpretation is that while I must always hold her and our marriage as first priority she will never do the same. I do not feel that we are talking about the kids needs against my wants. I feel ti is my needs against their wants. She has said she doesn't need anything from this relationship and their is something wrong with me if I do. While I would literally give my life for my kids, I am not happy about doing it figuratively. I believe if you asked her what the problem is she would say that I am not involved enough with the kids. I believe the real problem is that I have NO say in anything around here and also I think the kids have picked up on the fact that mom doesn't think I'm worth the time so they don't. I think she would also say my drinking is a problem. She would say that i'm in a good mood when I have a few drinks but a bad mood when I am "hungover". I am pretty much always upset about our situation but a few drinks generally helps me put on a smile, shove my feelings down deep and keep my mouth shut. I have nobody to talk too. I am SOOO lonely and don't know if I am being unfair. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

I am sorry to hear your story. I think something like this happens to quite a lot of husbands though not to quite the extreme you have here.

Are your children going to leave home to go to college? If they are then life will change dramatically in the next few years.

I would at some point try to point out very nicely to your wife that some day the children will fly the nest and then it will be the two of you alone again so it will be best for both of you if you are on as good terms as possible when you get to that stage.

And keep the alcohol intake down. Exercise is a better way to ease stress and a lot healthier.

You might also read the books - His Needs Her Needs and the Five Love Languages.


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## lkjhgfdsa (Mar 5, 2013)

I don't really see them moving out. They are great kids but have NO sense of independence. My kids do nothing outside the house without mom so moving out seems very extreme at this point. About a year ago we tried to get them to order fast food while we watched. They couldn't do it. I had to step in. They are not dumb just so sheltered by their mother they can't do any thing on their own. I kinda thought that by about ten or twelve they would maybe go play outside or with friends and we could at least have an occasional private conversation. That never happened so I don't hold much hope for 18. Even so I am afraid that by then I am going to be so resentful for coming in last that it will be too late.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Can you easily go a day without a drink?

Now to your wife. She is absolutly wrong about putting the kids first. If the husband and wife are good, the kids are going to be just fine. One dissatisfied spouse can wreck an entire family.

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lkjhgfdsa said:


> I don't really see them moving out. They are great kids but have NO sense of independence. My kids do nothing outside the house without mom so moving out seems very extreme at this point. About a year ago we tried to get them to order fast food while we watched. They couldn't do it. I had to step in. They are not dumb just so sheltered by their mother they can't do any thing on their own. I kinda thought that by about ten or twelve they would maybe go play outside or with friends and we could at least have an occasional private conversation. That never happened so I don't hold much hope for 18. Even so I am afraid that by then I am going to be so resentful for coming in last that it will be too late.


Holy crap, this is sad, sad, sad! Helicopter parenting to the extreme! I guess your wife thinks that this makes her mother of the year, but the truth is just the opposite! You have to teach your kids to fly, not pretend like they dont have wings! You are in a no win situation here. My suggestion would be to tell your W that the two of you either get some counseling to work on things, or you will be divorcing her. And you need to mean it, because the words alone are not going to carry any weight without the actions to back it up!

EDITING TO ADD...STOP THE DRINKING!!!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I think she needs to get less involved but you also need to get more involved. A father should be able to talk to the kids and go out with them without it being uncomfortable. Did you have much involvement with them when they were younger? Daddy dates as toddlers, taking them alone as young kids? When they are in their room before Mom gets home do you go in, ask how their day was? Seems strange to me that a father would be so disconnected. Do you think she is bad talking you to them?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Does your wife work outside the home?


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## lkjhgfdsa (Mar 5, 2013)

My wife is a professional although she took off about eight years while they little. Yes I did connect with them when they were little. I do ask them everyday how their day was but I get a one word answer. I don't think that it is really me that they are disconnected to. They are disconnected with everyone but mom. My son hasn't hung out with a friend in years and then it was once in a great while. My daughter hangs with a friend about once a year. I don't think my wife bad talks me. I think she speaks loudly with her actions in that I don't have any say and that im really not worth her time. Although since we are never alone they hear our fights and some of the things she says about me. The worse thing I ever said to her was that she wasnt being their parent, she was being their friend. I was sure she was gonna divorce me. I have thought about divorce almost daily. It just seems crazy! We arn't dealing with physical abuse, infidelity, major financial problems. The solution seems so easy to me. I can go without a drink. I feel like that not only does she want her way with every thing but i need to keep my mouth shut and act happy about her choices. Unfortunately it is easier to do with a drink. I know it may sound like a cop out but without any one to talk to it is how I am dealing at this point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I hate to say it, but your kids sound really unhealthy. Do you ever take them on a trip?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And I also hate to say it, but I think you've waited about 5 years too long to do anything. At this point, if you moved out, you'd likely never even see your kids again, because they frankly couldn't care less about you.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

First, you need to read Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. to get some inforamation about how to lead in your home.

Your wife has seized the role of leader in your household and you've let her do it. So you both share blame in creating this problem.

As for how to solve it, you have to become the leader again. The good news is that this is possible. The bad news is that it's much more difficult to regain the role of leader than it is to never give it up in the first place.

So, once you've read the blog/books above, you need to start asserting yourself in your own home. Get your kids out of your house. Maybe they're not ready to go out alone, yet. So take them out yourself. And leave your wife behind. Yes, it will be awkward. Yes, they will be sitting there wishing they were with mommy and not you. But it's for their own good. Eventually, maybe you can leave them alone in public.

Your job, as a parent, is to teach your children how to be competent adults. So far, you have failed. It may be too late for you to succeed. But you have to try.

Good luck.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lkjhgfdsa said:


> My wife is a professional although she took off about eight years while they little. Yes I did connect with them when they were little. I do ask them everyday how their day was but I get a one word answer. I don't think that it is really me that they are disconnected to. They are disconnected with everyone but mom. My son hasn't hung out with a friend in years and then it was once in a great while. My daughter hangs with a friend about once a year. I don't think my wife bad talks me. I think she speaks loudly with her actions in that I don't have any say and that im really not worth her time. Although since we are never alone they hear our fights and some of the things she says about me. The worse thing I ever said to her was that she wasnt being their parent, she was being their friend. I was sure she was gonna divorce me. I have thought about divorce almost daily. It just seems crazy! We arn't dealing with physical abuse, infidelity, major financial problems. The solution seems so easy to me. I can go without a drink. I feel like that not only does she want her way with every thing but i need to keep my mouth shut and act happy about her choices. Unfortunately it is easier to do with a drink. I know it may sound like a cop out but without any one to talk to it is how I am dealing at this point.


This is REALLY abnormal and dysfunctional! These kids are not going to be able to function as independent, functional adults! If only your wife would realize what a disservice she is doing these kids! And you are right, they have no respect for you because she doesnt, and she rules their world. 

And, physical abuse, infidelity, major financial problems are not the only valid reasons for divorce! You are being emotionally and verbally abused, you are being neglected, and disrespected. I think its time you man up, she has treated you this way all these years because you have LET her do so. You have ALLOWED her and your children to dismiss and disrespect you. Let that sink in for a minute.


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## lkjhgfdsa (Mar 5, 2013)

I know they are unhealthy I just don't know what to do. Yes we take them on trips. In trying to understand her I think because she grew up in a large family without much money her parents didn't have a lot of time for their kids and she is trying to not let that happen here. I just think it is going too far. She is not a bad person. I think she thinks she is doing the best she can. She will agree that they need to branch out but she seems to be waiting for it too happen rather than do things to really encourage it. I am fairly close to her sister, who is long distance, and have thought of talking to her to help me gain some insight but I am afraid that might be crossing a line.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The real problem here is you forgot how to be a man. Read the book advised above. Start acting like a man. Turn off your kids' electronics and tell them to get up and go outside, and then lead them on a walk. Stop being 'afraid' because it is unmanly and VERY unattractive. Wanna get her back in bed? Start doing this stuff.


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## lkjhgfdsa (Mar 5, 2013)

I understand what you are all saying but we have fought over this stuff alot. I mean a lot! I question how manly and attractive is it to bring up a subject that I know is going to head into a major fight?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

When you talk to her about it do you say that you need her to stop the dependence with the kids so she can focus on you or do you tell her that you need her to stop because it's not healthy for them? It would be for both things but she needs to understand this is not just for you, it is for the kids.


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## lkjhgfdsa (Mar 5, 2013)

I have told her that the kids need to learn some independence for their own sake and that I will not live the rest of my life alone.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

lkjhgfdsa said:


> I question how manly and attractive is it to bring up a subject that I know is going to head into a major fight?


You think that cowering to your wife and letting her raise your children in a way that you know to be harmful might be more manly than taking charge and giving your kids what they need (not what they want)? I disagree.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

lkjhgfdsa said:


> I have told her that the kids need to learn some independence for their own sake and that I will not live the rest of my life alone.


You have criticized your wife for wishing and hoping that your children become independent, yet doing nothing to help make it happen. Yet you simply tell your wife that your kids need to be more independent.

Telling your wife something is not an action. It is inaction. Taking your kids on a camping trip, or a hike, is an action. Start being active, rather than passive.


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## lkjhgfdsa (Mar 5, 2013)

Bite me!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

lkjhgfdsa said:


> Bite me!


That's the attitude!! However, you would be better served directing that energy inwards, so that you can change yourself and change your life.

Of course, if you're just here for some sympathy, and have no interest in improving your life, then I'll oblige. It sucks to be you. You've been an innocent bystander while your wife ran your marriage and your children's lives into the ground. There's nothing you could have done about it. The men who successfully lead families and have happy marriages are nothing more than happy accidents. Poor you. :liar:


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I would try to listen to both your wife and your children. Get a sense of what they want. Tell your wife you want to try to improve things. Suggest counseling or perhaps a weekend encounter. 

While I am not sure I am going to put all the blame on her, if it doesn't get better, than you have to look at other options. A loveless uncommunicative marriage is really not a marriage at all.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Try this. Tell the family y'all are going unplugged for one week. No tv no radio no computer, and no cell phones. Spend that week as a family. Play games, go to the movies as a family etc.
May be worth a shot.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lkjhgfdsa said:


> I understand what you are all saying but we have fought over this stuff alot. I mean a lot! I question how manly and attractive is it to bring up a subject that I know is going to head into a major fight?


IDK, how manly is it to tuck tail and run because a woman fights with you?

Just read the book and report back, after it's opened your eyes.


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## lkjhgfdsa (Mar 5, 2013)

Bobby,
thanks for the advice. I know that I need to have these conversations I just need to figure out how to start them this far down the road. Don't get me wrong, I do NOT put all the blame on my wife. I believe marriage is a two way street. It just seems that this street seems a little narrow lately! Ha! Believe it or not I don't want to dwell too much on blame and regret. They seem a useless endeavor. I just want to find a better path for this family.

PHTlump, In the interest of keeping things brief, I have not given every detail in this situation but I don't believe I have said I have taken no action. I just don't think my actions have gathered the support of my wife and gotten the results I had hoped for. I believe that marriage is a partnership that requires a delicate balance of compromise. It is just something I don't think we have achieved yet. I am not interested in hitting my wife over the head with a club and dragging her back to my cave. I believe she has a right to her opinions. Once again.... compromise. I find your assertion that all happy marriages come from the man leading, I hear bullying their wives, their families uninspiring at best. You may be right! It may suck to be me! But It must be so nice to be you! To sit in the back row and hand out such quick easy judgements and answers with such limited information. I envy you! I apologize for my previous outburst this is a somewhat painful time for me. I am not looking for anyones sympathy.... just maybe a little sensitivity.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

OP, have you been to therapy with your wife? I would suggest going and then eventually bringing the kids to a family therapist. Your entire family dynamic is unhealthy, but it can still be saved. Seeing a therapist would take the pressure off of you from being "the bad guy" as there would be an impartial 3rd party involved who can work to encourage your wife & children to set healthy parent/child boundaries. The therapist can also assist in getting your children to become functioning young adults. It won't be easy, but it's better than doing nothing or getting nowhere with your wife. Wishing you lots of luck!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read the book and then come back. You don't see yet what we're talking about.

btw, being 'manly' does not involve the use of a club. It involves saying what you want and then TAKING STEPS to get it. Sounds like all you've done is say what you want and then sit back and wait/hope for her to agree.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

lkjhgfdsa said:


> PHTlump, In the interest of keeping things brief, I have not given every detail in this situation but I don't believe I have said I have taken no action.


I'm sure there's more to the story. You can't possibly communicate your entire marital history in a few paragraphs. So, we have to use what you give us. And that includes impressions. My impression of your posts was that you're unhappy about your position in the family, you've complained to your wife about it, and your wife hasn't seen fit to change your position. That's what I based my recommendations on.



> I just don't think my actions have gathered the support of my wife and gotten the results I had hoped for.


I'm not surprised. My impression from your posts is that your wife runs the house. As you stated, your wife's view of your marriage is 1. her, 2. kids, 3. you. There aren't many people who seize authority who are willing to give it up readily when asked. So I don't recommend asking for authority. You must assume the authority that rightly belongs to you.



> I am not interested in hitting my wife over the head with a club and dragging her back to my cave. I believe she has a right to her opinions. Once again.... compromise. I find your assertion that all happy marriages come from the man leading, I hear bullying their wives, their families uninspiring at best.


If you believe that leadership=bullying, then I think you would make a poor leader. Perhaps it's best for your family that you don't lead them. However, there are many happy marriages out there that prove it's possible to lead your family and have them love and respect you for it.



> You may be right! It may suck to be me! But It must be so nice to be you! To sit in the back row and hand out such quick easy judgements and answers with such limited information. I envy you! I apologize for my previous outburst this is a somewhat painful time for me. I am not looking for anyones sympathy.... just maybe a little sensitivity.


Don't get me wrong. I wasn't born knowing everything about how to be a great husband and father. I made plenty of mistakes. And one of them was failing to lead. Because of that, my wife didn't respect me. She didn't love me like she should have. My sex life was pretty lousy. But I corrected that mistake.

It looks like you might have made some of the same mistakes I did, just for a lot longer. It might be possible for you to correct your mistakes. I recommend you read Married Man Sex Life Primer, and No More Mister Nice Guy to gain some insight into how your behavior has contributed to your situation, and how changing your behavior can help change your marriage.

Good luck.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

lkjhgfdsa said:


> I believe she has a right to her opinions. Once again.... compromise. I find your assertion that all happy marriages come from the man leading, I hear bullying their wives, their families uninspiring at best.


I agree with you, not all families need a leader. I don't buy into the whole idea myself, relationships can have equal leadership. The problem I see is that you aren't equal, she has all the power. You have a right to your opinions too. She needs to compromise with you too. If you took over some of the kid responsibilities could you work with them to become more independent while she gets used to being less attached to them? Just tell her they are your kids too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read the book (or else No More Mr Nice Guy). And THEN come back and tell us what you think about our advice. I'll make you a bet that you will come back with a changed view. Right now, you are acting on a lack of experience and education (which is common, btw).


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