# Wife and Male Coworker



## ConfusedinColumbus

Would appreciate some advice/insight to my current dilemma...

Just discovered that my wife of 10 years and a married male co-worker exchanged over 700 text messages in a one month period, including 40+ messages on Christmas day. Text sessions have sometimes been for 60-90 minutes straight, a night while at home. Texts occur in the AM, PM and weekends. She deletes her emails/texts. We went to dinner with this co-worker and his wife (before I knew about the "relationship") and learned that he sent a text to her while at dinner (presumably when he went to the restroom) and another after dinner.

When confronted about this, she claims its nothing and they are just friends. She does not believe it is inappropriate, as she is "one of the guys" and this coworker in question is just a friend. No explanation as to what they talked about on Christmas or why she deletes her texts/emails.

She continues to text him, too early to tell if it is less so. Mind you, she sees him almost everyday at work.

This is her second marriage, she did cheat on her first husband with a coworker (she downplays that because she was young and unhappily married).

Thanks,
ConfusedinColumbus


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## Amplexor

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> Just discovered that my wife of 10 years and a married male co-worker exchanged over 700 text messages in a one month period


FLAG #1 This is way too much contact.



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> including 40+ messages on Christmas day.


FLAG #2 She is taking time away from you and the kids during what should be a "Family" celebration. (So is he) Where are her priorities?



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> She deletes her emails/texts.


FLAG #3 She knows the contact is inapropriate so she hides it.



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> When confronted about this, she claims its nothing and they are just friends.


FLAG #4 She is in denial or is hiding her real feelings from you.



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> She does not believe it is inappropriate, as she is "one of the guys" and this coworker in question is just a friend.


FLAG #5 She is rationalizing



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> Mind you, she sees him almost everyday at work.


FLAG #6 They are in daily physical contact



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> This is her second marriage, she did cheat on her first husband with a coworker


FLAG #7 This one speaks for itself

This is at a minimum an emotional affair. Their actions are hurting two marriages. Does his wife know about the contact? She needs to be made to see what this is and how it is likely hurting your marrieage. Aside from this how is the marriage in general?


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## onlylonelyone

she is guilty on all charges, lol...


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Thanks for replies...

For the most part the marriage is good (usual ups and downs, still intimate, two kids, good careers, etc). Now however, trust is in short supply (whether me wondering about her fidelity or her thinking about me snooping around).

His wife does know about the communication, but doubtful she knows the unfathomable number of total text messages - she apparently made some mention of it to her husband...with no obvious impact as the texting continued.

We have pretty much brushed in under the rug and my wife now treats it as a joke. He has been made aware of my knowledge of the communication and sent me an email apologizing, but similar to my wife he rationalizes it and said it was just friendly chat. I have not returned this email.

Last evening she told me she was going to check her email real quick before coming to bed and proceeded to text him (and her girlfriend, who she did tell me she chatted with, but no mention of the texting the male coworker). Last text message she received was from him (at almost 11PM). 

This is no fun. I have no idea what transpires at work and no idea as to the subject matter in the texts.


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## Dancing Nancie

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> Thanks for replies...
> 
> For the most part the marriage is good (usual ups and downs, still intimate, two kids, good careers, etc). Now however, trust is in short supply (whether me wondering about her fidelity or her thinking about me snooping around).
> 
> His wife does know about the communication, but doubtful she knows the unfathomable number of total text messages - she apparently made some mention of it to her husband...with no obvious impact as the texting continued.
> 
> We have pretty much brushed in under the rug and my wife now treats it as a joke. He has been made aware of my knowledge of the communication and sent me an email apologizing, but similar to my wife he rationalizes it and said it was just friendly chat. I have not returned this email.
> 
> Last evening she told me she was going to check her email real quick before coming to bed and proceeded to text him (and her girlfriend, who she did tell me she chatted with, but no mention of the texting the male coworker). Last text message she received was from him (at almost 11PM).
> 
> This is no fun. I have no idea what transpires at work and no idea as to the subject matter in the texts.


 I think that if you ignore this issue you will find it get worse and worse. 

Well it's never fun to snoop, but I think that you have more than enough reasons to do so. I think installing a keylogger on the computer that she uses for email would be a good start to see what she is emailing about. There are some ways to get a transcript of the text messages, but I am no expert...


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## daycaremom

This is how things started with my now ex BF of 18 years. We had the house, kids, intimacy the whole thing. His relationship to the OW was a co-worker also. Now i have finally gotten sick of hearing "we are just friends" 
He wasn't as careful as your wife. I did get a hold of his cell phone and read some incredible text messages that i now can't seem to forget. She was some friend... he spent hundreds of dollars on earrings for her christmas present. This relationship went on for months and he kept saying it was over. Everytime they got into a fight "It was over" until the next time. Always behind my back. 
The bottom line is that if you as her husband feel this contact is out of line then she needs to respect you and stop this emotional affair before the family is torn apart. 
If I could go back and change how I handled my situation, I would have kicked him out at the beginning because that seems to shock reality into the offender. 
You must follow your gut intuition on this. Good luck


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## COFLgirl

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> Thanks for replies...
> 
> For the most part the marriage is good (usual ups and downs, still intimate, two kids, good careers, etc). Now however, trust is in short supply (whether me wondering about her fidelity or her thinking about me snooping around).
> 
> 
> Quote:
> We have pretty much brushed in under the rug and my wife now treats it as a joke. He has been made aware of my knowledge of the communication and sent me an email apologizing, but similar to my wife he rationalizes it and said it was just friendly chat. I have not returned this email.
> 
> 
> 
> This is no fun. I have no idea what transpires at work and no idea as to the subject matter in the texts.


Whatever you do, don't brush it under the rug and don't ignore it. What your wife is doing is wrong. In my situation, it was my husband who was talking, talking, talking (and texting and emailing) a colleague who was "just a friend." Lord, I get so sick of that term--it is definitely a cover or a way to rationalize something much more serious. If I had followed my instincts about what I found in the phone records, my husband would have had to come clean long before he did. 

Please follow your instincts here and don't ignore what is going on. It will only get worse. There is no reason for anyone (unless you're a teenage girl with nothing else to do) to send 700 texts to one person unless they are somehow involved. 

Your wife's joking behavior and attitude about the whole thing shows a lack of respect for your feelings. Take it from someone who has been through the same thing. I am still recovering and it has been 3 months since my husband confessed his inappropriate friendship. My husband is genuinely remorseful for his actions-all the calls, texts, etc. However, it doesn't take away the pain that his behavior caused. Nip it in the bud before it is too late!


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## T-Dub

There is no way you should brush it under the rug. I think you should have a nice talk with his wife. Show her the phone records and tell her you want it stopped. Your wife is acting "Flip" about the whole thing! GO Buckeye's


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## 1nurse

Sorry to hear of your dilemma. My ex would send some months as per his cell bill over 1000 text messages to his "friend" through work. Been there done that.  Ask her this question, "do you text your other friends this much?" She's emotionally involved. Once the "friend" gets in there good luck getting him out.


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## TNgirl232

Been there - been the wife - Mine was on Instant messanger.

It starts as friendly banter, then flirting, the sexual innuendo, to cybersex to the real thing. I don't know where she is in the process but it won't lead anywhere good. All communication MUST stop.


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## GAsoccerman

I agree on the "over texting"

Tell her if nothing is going on, to let you read them before deleting.

I have plenty of female friends that I am flirty with, I never text them this much or e-mail them.

this is over the top, you have reason to be concerned.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Thanks for everyone's replies, validating my belief that something is afoot. But what exactly remains unclear.
What is an "emotional affair"? I have never heard of such a thing...I always imagined an affair wherein one spouse is physically intimate with somebody else...is this like "an affair of heart"? She often says I read too much into things and tend to be overly analytical (job hazard) - she argues such is the case here.

To update, yesterday she locked down her phone (password needed to open - which I do not have) and changed the password for her email account (also do not have).

Trying to figure out how to bring this up again, as the dust was just starting to settle after the initial discussion about the excessive communication, so much easier to stand back and see if it blows over (while trying to monitor the situation). When I jokingly said something about it this AM (after she made mention of something associated with him in a benign way), she just tells me to "get over it". 

Still "ConfusedinColumbus"... (Go Buckeyes indeed!)


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## CPT CONFUSED

i have a question for you? whos names is the cell phone in? if it is in yours you can take the phone to a cell phone provider one that deals with your service and unlock it and read all the texts that are on the phone also some companies have to retain records for a certain amount of time before they delete them so you might also be able to read things she may have already deleted from the phone.


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## Amplexor

An emotional affair can be just as damaging as a physical one. In short the wondering spouse is using someone outside the marriage as an emotional center. This can lead on a full PA but not necessarily so. I some cases the two may never even meet in real life. Her locking down her phone and emails only adds to the secrecy and depth in which she is involved with this man. Her “get over it” attitude only underscores he lack of concern with your feelings. She may or may not be aware that she has feelings for this man that a married woman should not have. Has she withdrawn from the marriage of late? Are there other flags you have missed? This relationship is damaging to your marriage and needs to be addressed. I would seriously consider counseling.


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## blindsided

Dear Confused:

I suspect you don't need everyone else to tell you what your heart is already feeling and your instincts are already telling you.

Your situation is just like mine, simply with a reverse of the sexes. 

So, unless you want to change your name from "Confused" to "blindsided" like me, it is time for a heart to heart with your wife, and I mean NOW. You need to prepare yourself for the very real possibility that this is already a full blown affair (but my hope is that you are not too late). The first step is complete open discussion and putting it ALL on the table. You may not like what you find out, but it must be done. This passwording stuff must stop. You are her husband, and there should be no secrets. 

If there is an affair, it needs to end immediately. You need to be clear on this, if you indeed want to save your relationship with your wife. 

If possible (was not in my case), they need to stop all contact. 

Please don't ignore this and end up regretting (as I do) that I might have prevented it before it happened. 

Keep us posted, and good luck.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

My wife and kids are spending the weekend at my in-laws (I couldn't go because of work commitments - it was a last minute trip). Didn't hear from my wife last night, but I discovered that she was texting this coworker until 10PM. I called her on it (didn't hear from you, but you had time to text "X" until after 10PM)...she again says they are just friends and they were not talking about anything of substance. She then proceeded to go after me for looking at the online phone bill/etc...calling me a snoop.

Having had enough, I figured it was time for me to "mark my territory" so to speak and I replied to the coworker's email (see earlier post). I cc'd his wife, who is quasi in the loop on this (see earlier post), but likely has no idea of the magnitude. This will surely cause a storm. I made it perfectly clear to him that there is no explanation he can give me that justifies the amount of contact he has had with my wife and that he needs to immediately stop the texting/phone calls outside of work...or he and I will have a problem (it is not possible to severe all contact, as they work together during the day). I understand this fiasco is a two way street, but I figured it was time for me to call him on this...man to man (going "old school" if you would).

The problem with laying everything on the table with my wife is that she denies any wrong doing. She tries to rationalize the irrational.

Ugh...this is so unpleasant.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

<sigh>

Well, the blowback from my email to the coworker is pretty bad. She is still at the in-laws and proceeded to send me some fairly nasty texts this AM asking how I could so such a thing/threats of divorce/name calling/etc. She then proceeded to leave a nasty voicemail demanding I call her asap. I have not responded to any of the texts/calls - trying to let her cool down.

I seem to have hit a pretty raw nerve here. She seems more concerned about the fallout with her coworker/his wife than with our marriage. I do not regret putting this guy on notice, as he continued to contact my wife despite knowing my concerns. My guess is that his wife didn't know the extent of the contact (but now does) and as such, things are a little uncomfortable at their house....or maybe not.

I will reach out to my wife later today and tell her we need to have a serious talk when she returns, don't know what else to do.

My head hurts...


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## Dancing Nancie

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> <sigh>
> 
> Well, the blowback from my email to the coworker is pretty bad. She is still at the in-laws and proceeded to send me some fairly nasty texts this AM asking how I could so such a thing/threats of divorce/name calling/etc. She then proceeded to leave a nasty voicemail demanding I call her asap. I have not responded to any of the texts/calls - trying to let her cool down.
> 
> I seem to have hit a pretty raw nerve here. She seems more concerned about the fallout with her coworker/his wife than with our marriage. I do not regret putting this guy on notice, as he continued to contact my wife despite knowing my concerns. My guess is that his wife didn't know the extent of the contact (but now does) and as such, things are a little uncomfortable at their house....or maybe not.
> 
> I will reach out to my wife latter today and tell her we need to have a serious talk when she returns, don't know what else to do.
> 
> My head hurts...


I think that sending the email was a mistake. So was talking to her about the issue without proof that she can't refute. You need to stop what you are doing and try something else. 

You need to get proof that something is going on. You need to install a keylogger on the computer she uses to email him. This will allow you to get a transcript of what they are saying. Without this she will just continue to deny, and you can't do anything to call her out on this.


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## Amplexor

CC

A risky but bold move. I don’t think it was a mistake but it very well could be a make or break move. The content of the texts is not the only issue. It is the amount and it obviously is at an uncomfortable level for you. When I first discovered my wife’s EA I contemplated notifying TOM’s wife but didn’t. I’ve wondered if that would have been the correct move or not. You have now committed so go through with this and let her know this relationship is unacceptable. While you’ve taken a big risk here it may be the wake up call she needs or at least you’ll finally get to know where you stand with her.. I agree, her contacting this man while not calling you while she was away is BS. Good luck and keep us posted. It’s going to get bumpy now, hang on.


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## blindsided

I agree with Amplexor. I don't think sending the email was a mistake...one way or the other, you need to know where you stand. I also considered contacting the OW's husband....but in my situation, he was abusive, and I simply would never do anything to purposefully put someone in harm's way. 

Hang in there, confused. It will indeed be rough going from here on in, but you are well within your rights all around. I don't care what anywone says, that much texting between two people is not merely a casual relationship.


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## Free2beme

Wow,

I hope things workout for you. I know what you're going through, I just had a situation over the weekend where I noticed a guy my girl works with is on her yahoo buddy list. It didn't sit well with me, she claims this guy is gay but I don't even know him. I can honestly admit I have trust issues anyway so I have been trying not to over react. We already have a issue with a "just a friend" that she texts on a regular basis. We're engaged for now but I'm having second thoughts.

The locking of the cell phone is very suspicious. To me you only have so much privacy when you live with someone let alone are married to them. At some point privacy turns into having something to hide. 

And no you were not wrong for sending the email. You have every right and he should be glad that's all you did. His wife has a right to know as well. The four of you are all adults and married at that. The extra communication between him and your wife is very disrespectful to say the least.

Again I hope things work out for you. Stay strong and stand your ground.


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## COFLgirl

I agree that you were well within your rights to email the co-worker. I also think you need to get good and angry about the whole situation. When I was in your situation (the roles were reversed), people kept telling me, "you need to get angry." I didn't understand this at the time, but I did finally "blow up" at my husband about a week after he confessed. I forced him to move out of our house because like your wife, he was somewhat in denial and rationalizing his behavior, even though he had confessed before I had to find out the hard way. 

My anger did help finally propel him into "waking up" and realizing what he had done and was continuing to do. When he moved out, I would get cryptic text messages while he would call "her," sounds like this is similar to what you are going through. I can guess at the pain and fear you are probably feeling right now. As someone who has been in a very similar situation (as many others who post here also have), I really think you need to play "hardball" with her-how you do it is up to you-making her move out, making sure she knows you are consulting an attorney, etc. My guess is that you're fearful of losing your marriage-so was I. However, once I took a stand with my spouse, it caused him to wake up and realize what he was about to lose.

Good luck to you--I was hoping that we were all wrong and that there was a perfectly innocent explanation for your wife's behavior.


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## draconis

Amplexor said:


> CC
> 
> A risky but bold move. I don’t think it was a mistake but it very well could be a make or break move. The content of the texts is not the only issue. It is the amount and it obviously is at an uncomfortable level for you. When I first discovered my wife’s EA I contemplated notifying TOM’s wife but didn’t. I’ve wondered if that would have been the correct move or not. You have now committed so go through with this and let her know this relationship is unacceptable. While you’ve taken a big risk here it may be the wake up call she needs or at least you’ll finally get to know where you stand with her.. I agree, her contacting this man while not calling you while she was away is BS. Good luck and keep us posted. It’s going to get bumpy now, hang on.


:iagree:


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## swedish

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> She is still at the in-laws and proceeded to send me some fairly nasty texts this AM asking how I could so such a thing/threats of divorce/name calling/etc. She then proceeded to leave a nasty voicemail demanding I call her asap. I have not responded to any of the texts/calls - trying to let her cool down.
> 
> I seem to have hit a pretty raw nerve here. She seems more concerned about the fallout with her coworker/his wife than with our marriage.


If it was truely as innocent as she makes it out to be, I can't imagine she would have reacted in this way. Even though she may feel she's done nothing wrong, I think in her mind, this relationship has become an emotional attachement for her and her anger towards you for trying to end it shows just that.

At this point, when you do have a serious talk, try to stay calm and point out why you think the contact is excessive and why it concerns you. If you can get her to open up and admit whatever feelings she is having for him, you will be in a position to try to bring the emotional closeness back into the marriage. Ending contact with him will be important at this stage, but she needs to be on board and understand why.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Well, the latest text message I received from my wife stated that she is "going to file for a divorce" when she returns from the in-laws and there is no need for me to call her back. I have called her twice to no avail (no answer). Ouch. 

I have been called some pretty nasty names today and painted as the bad guy here by my wife. I think her reaction speaks volumes about where she was in the relationship with this guy. Having sought the counsel of some close friends, all agree that the contact was best case scenario, inappropriate, and the situation warranted my intervention by telling the other guy to essentialy "cease and desist".

<sigh>

Right now I am pretty wiped out, haven't slept much of late and obviously very unsure as to what tomorrow brings. If I take her at her word, I guess I need to prepare for the worst.


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## Amplexor

I am sorry to hear this but it was a chance you took. I still think it was the right decision. Would you rather live on this way not knowing what was going on? All the secrecy and lack of respect for your feelings? When she returns, be as confident and unemotional as you can and let her know if she is not willing to live within your boundaries the you are ready to move on also.


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## Free2beme

I am sorry to hear that but it says a lot. Who would really divorce their spouse over "just a friend"?

I hope things work out for you. Maybe she's just acting out of anger right now and doesn't really mean it. She's probably told a friend or family member about what happen and who knows what they may be encouraging her to do or how they may be fueling her anger.

If you feel in your heart the marriage is worth saving then try to talk to her face to face without outsiders. At least that way even if it doesn't work you know you tried your best. And DO NOT feel bad or guilty for your actions, you didn't do anything wrong. Hang in there and I really hope it works out.


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## Deejo

At this point, your own self-respect has far more value. You absolutely did the right thing. I will tell you something else, she is likely far more scared than angry. You just blew the little world she thought she had wrapped up, wide open. 
She manipulated you.
She lied to you.
She betrayed you.

You just took some control back. I realize it doesn't feel like control at the moment, but it was a significant step.

Don't call her. No point. Think about what you want for an outcome and how much, or how little you are willing to tolerate in hopes of getting there. And let me tell you from experience, if she is unwilling to work with you to reconcile then try to calmly explain she can at least be considerate of your children and work with you to dissolve the marriage.

I'm sorry.


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## GAsoccerman

yea you are not the bad guy here, SHE IS....this is typical.

You asked her to stop, she didn't.

She brought this on herself, and for her to say she is going to divorce you over it, speaks VOLUMES.

Good for you, standing up for yourself.


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## 1nurse

You mentioned in an earlier post that it seemed you're wife was defending this guy and painting you out to be the bad guy. I soo know that feeling. This woman my ex got involved with could do NO WRONG. Even though her behavior was clearly over the line and juvenile My ex just saw me as controlling and the bad guy. That should speak volumes right there. You took vows with your wife. YOU and your family should be the most important thing in her life. When I was in a good place in my marriage another guy could have grabbed me by my ankles and tried to take me away from my ex I still wouldn't have left. And yes I agree, people don't walk away from their marriages for a platonic friend. Sorry it's come to this point for you. I wish now sometimes I would have confronted the woman my ex was involved with but I didn't want to upset him and push him further away. Don't know what good it would have done anyway. She is a moron. He left anyway. His loss, my gain. Good Luck. Keep your convictions and protect your family. You haven't done anything wrong. It's all her.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

[Update]

Well, my wife is now home. Before her return, she and I spoke and agreed divorce was not the answer. We spoke a few times before she got home and I increasingly became cautiously optimistic, much improved over the pessimism that was abound. One thing did bother me and arose when I asked her why would she chat/talk with the coworker on a Sat night (while away at in-laws) rather than me? She said "she didn't know" - that felt like getting kicked in the teeth. She still takes the position they were/are "just friends" and they talked about "nothing".

I took the day off from work when she returned and we went out to lunch to talk about the problem at hand in hopes of salvaging this marriage. She still fails to admit to any wrong doing, but agrees to live within the defined boundaries (i.e., not having that much contact with another man). I explained that I do not want to have the same problem arise this time next year or the year after, if she can't agree to not having such an obviously emotional relationship with another man, it was indeed time to part ways. She agreed that she didn't want a divorce and would not have such voluminous contact with other men. 

Something that has bothered me since has been the absence of an apology, for both the actions between her and this coworker as well as the very, very disrespectful and frankly, crude attacks aimed at me when I called all parties involved on the carpet (email to coworker and wife). Yet, she has asked that I apologize to the wife for bringing her in the mix. Furthermore, I have learned that she has set up another (new) email account and changed the password to her computer. Before doing so, I discovered that she emailed the coworker apologizing for last weekend. She proceeded to tell him that I was essentially upset about the volume of texts/calls - no mention of the fact that that it was baseline inappropriate - and that they were still "buds" and needed to communicate at work. 

It is very frustrating to learn that not only has she again locked down her computer and set up a new email account, but she reaches out to the coworker apologizing for my actions, and then invites him to use our friend's time share condo (as we aren't going to use it). <sigh> She appears more concerned about patching things up with he and his wife than at home. Why the new email account? Why the new password?

In hindsight, I am glad I sent the email to the coworker and his wife. I brought this to a head and he has stopped texting/calling (as best I can tell). I told my wife if there was nothing going one, he would have either called me or replied to my email explaining as much - and said "hey, let me buy you a beer and lets go talk, there is NOTHING going on/etc...). Not surprisingly, I have not heard anything.

Sorry for the rambling...

Still ConfusedinColumbus...


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## Deejo

Wish I could be more optimistic for you, but all your wife effectively did is assume that she could diffuse the situation by reassuring you. The reality is; she hasn't told you anything.

What I will reluctantly point out, is that she is minmiziing the event and behavior.Based upon what you indicate, all of the red flags are still there. 

I will stress, when I refer to 'red flags', I'm not saying your wife is sleeping with another man. What I am saying is based upon her behavior, your marriage has gone off the rails. If her goal is to simply cover her tracks better, and your goal is that she keeps her word, or covers her tracks better so that you believe she's keeping her word - neither of you have actually addressed the real problem, which is between the two of you.


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## 1nurse

I feel so empathetic for you. It's like reading about my own separation. Doesn't it feel like banging your head against a wall? On one hand she's trying to reassure you by telling you nothing is going on and she will tone down communication. On the other you found a new e-mail, password and more secrecy. VERY FRUSTRATING. Plus you're not getting any resolution which is another minus. Unfortunately, you need to tell her unless this ends altogether you guys need a separation. No going back. It's going to be very hard to get this lowlife out of her life as he is a coworker as well. She may have to quit her job and focus on WHY she has turned to an emotional affair? Is she emotionally immature, does she have a history of poor decision making, is she a follower, are there ongoing problems in your marriage between you? Whatever the reason get to therapy and possibly individually. She may open up more on her own. Again, best of luck to you. Hang in there and I hope it works out.


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## Amplexor

Deejo said:


> Wish I could be more optimistic for you, but all your wife effectively did is assume that she could diffuse the situation by reassuring you. The reality is; she hasn't told you anything.
> 
> What I will reluctantly point out, is that she is minmiziing the event and behavior.Based upon what you indicate, all of the red flags are still there.
> 
> I will stress, when I refer to 'red flags', I'm not saying your wife is sleeping with another man. What I am saying is based upon her behavior, your marriage has gone off the rails. If her goal is to simply cover her tracks better, and your goal is that she keeps her word, or covers her tracks better so that you believe she's keeping her word - neither of you have actually addressed the real problem, which is between the two of you.



:iagree::iagree:

She doesn’t apologize because:

1. She doesn’t recognize the relationship for what it truly is.
2. She understands the situation, realizes her feelings for him are out of line
3. She has no empathy for you.


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## COFLgirl

Quote: I took the day off from work when she returned and we went out to lunch to talk about the problem at hand in hopes of salvaging this marriage. She still fails to admit to any wrong doing, but agrees to live within the defined boundaries (i.e., not having that much contact with another man). I explained that I do not want to have the same problem arise this time next year or the year after, if she can't agree to not having such an obviously emotional relationship with another man, it was indeed time to part ways. She agreed that she didn't want a divorce and would not have such voluminous contact with other men.

Something that has bothered me since has been the absence of an apology, for both the actions between her and this coworker as well as the very, very disrespectful and frankly, crude attacks aimed at me when I called all parties involved on the carpet (email to coworker and wife). Yet, she has asked that I apologize to the wife for bringing her in the mix. Furthermore, I have learned that she has set up another (new) email account and changed the password to her computer. Before doing so, I discovered that she emailed the coworker apologizing for last weekend. She proceeded to tell him that I was essentially upset about the volume of texts/calls - no mention of the fact that that it was baseline inappropriate - and that they were still "buds" and needed to communicate at work. endquote

Hi confusedincolumbus, I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. I'm glad that you have checked back in with us though and given an update. We're here to help!

Like others have had said here, I see numerous red flags in your situation. I hope we're all wrong in our analysis of your situation and that things will be okay for you and your wife. But, I find it troubling that your wife doesn't seem to have much consideration for your feelings, as I've said before. I don't know your wife, but the fact that she seems so matter-of-fact about her 'attachment' to her co-worker says to me she is in denial about the whole situation. No one would willingly put their marriage in jeopardy for a mere friendship if that is all it truly was. 

More importantly, I don't think you should feel that you have to apologize to the other spouse in this situation, i.e. the other man's wife. I am sure your wife and her friend don't like the fact that you blew it all out into the open because it makes it uncomfortable for everyone, as it should! I feel badly for the wife in this situation because I'm sure she is hurting too. However, she should be involved in knowing what is really going on.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Well, it was recommended earlier that i get "mad"...and I did. I called her out on the changing of her computer password...she claims she did it so as to "monitor my spying". <sigh> Not a good way to start working on trust if she changes the password on her computer so as to limit my access..."what do you have to hide?" I asked. I then threw out the complete BS move on her part by not apologizing to me, but having no problem in urging me to apologize to the coworker's wife...she then proceeded to say "this is all your fault, for sending the email." The was followed by a big "F - you" from me and I walked out. 

Shortly after tempers simmered, we talked and she again said she did not want a divorce, she respects me, and she wants to live within the norms of marriage. She also said she was sorry - I pointed out to her that me having to ask for the apology renders it almost useless. I explained I am willing to work on this, but TRUST is very lacking now and I want to be able to not worry when she says she is going to a meeting/etc and I don't want her wondering if I am trying to hack her computer/phone as soon as she leaves. Both agreed, hugged, etc...

OK, lets see how it goes...

Over the weekend the coworker sent a reply to my email from last week (see earlier post). It was mildly condescending in tone, in that he claims he thought my concern was with the volume of contact, not "conversation in general". I replied with a terse, "I am not buying your minimizing/rationalizing/etc.... " and explained it wasn't about "conversation in general" at work coupled with "if I need to explain in person, let me know". What an arse.

Sunday night I discovered that my wife sent an email to the coworker that included the line "I miss you.". My pulse quickened and my heart raced when I read that....how could it be?

Yesterday, I asked her how it went at work and she says "I heard about your email". No mention of his email to me...which I quickly made mention of. I then asked if she has had ANY contact with him out side of work "no". Have you texted/emailed him? "no". Specifically, "have you emailed him?" - an emphatic "no". "No emails at all?" I asked. "None" she replied while looking at me right in the eyes. I then followed with, "did you think I wouldn't find out about the 'I miss you' email from last night?". She looked like a deer caught in the headlights.

We went upstairs away from the kids and talked (I actually did some yelling). I told her I hope it was worth it, throwing everything away (marriage, family, etc) for this "friend". I highlighted what was in the email "I miss you" - she again tried to rationalize/minmize her behavior and I told her as much. She told me she loved me, the kids, etc and I told her that in fact she did not, as if she did, she would not have chosen this path. She assured me that I was her priority and things got "out of hand". She somewhat fell on her sword claiming that she very much liked talking/hanging out with this guy as he paid her attention/witty/etc...she somewhat tried to to turn it around on me by saying she was seeking attention elsewhere because it was laking at home, says she began to feel like a roommate rather than a wife. I told her I was totally open for working on such an issue and agreed that I may need to pay her more attention/etc - but I reminded her that after 10 years of marriage and two kids, it is not as easy and in fact, it is a two way street. I added that it is a lot easier to play "Lance Romance" when you don't go home with that person at the end of the day and pay bills, change diapers, and feed the cat/etc.

She admitted to making some really poor decisions and assured me that she doesn't want to split the family up/etc. and again apologized for the whole thing. She added that she will do whatever it takes to salvage the marriage. Problem is, I have been lied to, betrayed, and disrespected all the while trying to remedy this problem - and look where it go me: more deceit, more betrayal, and continued disrespect. I asked her to name one thing she has done to remedy this situation...she couldn't. I asked her why I should believe here now, sarcastically asking "because you really, really, really mean it this time?" I asked why she would essentially throw away the marriage by sending the "I miss you" email...? She couldn't answer that.

So now we are at a crossroads. I am sick to my stomach and still in shock over the "I miss you" email - I am so furious that I feel like sending it to the coworker's wife..."thought you might like to see the email my wife sent your husband...no worries, they are just friends.". Likely won't, but that is my frame of mind now. I don't know how we get the trust back, as I can and will only take so much dishonesty, disrespect, and betrayal. I feel so bad for my kids, the only reason I am still here. If it doesn't work out, I want to be able to look them in the eyes and tell them I tried EVERYTHING to make it work with "Mommy". Right now I am not sure I have exhausted all avenues, but if not, quite certain there are only a few left to try. I am taking some time to think and catch the breath that was so forcefully kicked out of me.

Thanks for everyone's advice/insight, very much appreciated and helpful.

Increasingly ConfusedinColumbus.


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## Amplexor

Often in an EA the offending spouse needs to be hit smack center before they truly realize what the “friendship” really is. I think you have accomplished that. Now will she be trustworthy? That is yet to be proved but I would suggest you let her know she needs to be fully open with you and should expect that you will be “checking” into things. She breached the peace pact and now pays the price. Your strategy on this was risky but seems to have paid off in her contrition. Don’t give up now, it may now finally be on the way to recovery. Don’t read to much into the “I miss you” statement. While hard to expect she does. TOM has had a big impact on her life for a long time and ending it will be difficult. It will take time for her to get past him and if she was “in love” with him, even longer. You’ve started her down a path now. Be firm in you boundaries but also be there to support her or she will be more tempted to turn back to him. Good luck


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## marina72

I hope I don't catch it for this one... But it sounds like she might be telling you she wants to save the marriage because she's still heding her bets? She's waiting till she's sure she wants to be with this other man, and until this other man tells his wife off,,, to officially tell you she wants to end it? What I'm getting at is, that she's got a place to live, security, love from you, even if it's not accepted by her. So, she's having her cake, and eating it too , to use an old cliche.... She might be keeping you around till she finds out if she and this other man will have something serious, and doesn't want to let go of you in case they don't work out? 

I had a boyfriend once, who dated behind my back (cheated) and didn't tell me. He basically was trying to find someone else to be with, but didn't want to dump me, because he wanted a "sure thing" while he searched for someone else. This man was the source of 4 long years of pain and weirdness for me, so I dumped him. Anyway, I am just wondering if maybe she's playing you more than you ever realized. She lies constantly, disrepsects you, and tells you she wants to save your marriage, but then tells the other guy she misses him? Sick on her part. To devalue her husband and kids like that.


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## Deejo

Just when you think the 'suck' may have turned a corner, you get another kick in the crotch. I remember that feeling.

Even when I knew that my wife's 'friendship' had crossed the line, I asked that she tell me the truth - and she still chose to lie. It was incredibly disappointing.
We are separated and our relationship is much improved, but given the course of some conversations, I still remind her that I don't trust her. She replies with, "I wish you wouldn't say that." to which I respond, "I wish I didn't have to."

Honestly? I would forward the email to the wife. Actions have consequences. You have nothing to lose by doing so. Keeping the wife in the loop protects her interests as well. The secondary effect of doing so means that you are putting heat on the relationship from his end. Unless the both of them have a plan to leave their spouses and ride off into the sunset - one of them is eventually going to recognize that the collateral damage this 'friendship' is causing is simply not worth it.

Out of curiousity, have you put email forwarders in place?


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## michzz

Your experience I quoted below? This is the classic cheating wife scenario.

Given the opportunity to repair her marriage, a cheating wife who likes what she is doing will instead realize that further deception, "better" deception, will allow her to keep having her cake and eat it to.



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> She admitted to making some really poor decisions and assured me that she doesn't want to split the family up/etc. and again apologized for the whole thing. She added that she will do whatever it takes to salvage the marriage. Problem is, I have been lied to, betrayed, and disrespected all the while trying to remedy this problem - and look where it go me: more deceit, more betrayal, and continued disrespect. I asked her to name one thing she has done to remedy this situation...she couldn't. I asked her why I should believe here now, sarcastically asking "because you really, really, really mean it this time?" I asked why she would essentially throw away the marriage by sending the "I miss you" email...? She couldn't answer that.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

This is the Cliffs Notes version of a LONG talk from last night...

My wife went a down a literal list of things that she has been unhappy about in the marriage (e.g., feels like a roommate, not told she is pretty often enough, I don't help out enough with the kids, not told smart often enough, doesn't feel appreciated, doesn't feel loved, etc...). She just breezed over the current events and focused on just about everything else. I sat attentively, but will add that listening to a spouse go down a list of things, all negative, about you is not easy - but I just sat and listened and never interrupted (mind you, there were many a time I wanted to interrupt and contest what she was saying, as it was inaccurate...but I didn't). During this time she also told me that on more than one occasion this past year somebody suggested having an affair with her which she turned down (WTH?). With regards to addressing what has transpired over the past fee weeks (emotional affair - lying, betrayal, etc), she simply made a passing reference to it - still minimizing the whole episode. Basically, she positioned the EA as a symptom, not the problem and justified it because it felt good to be told she was funny, smart, etc (my guess is attractive and sexy as well).

I explained to her that if I were to concede every issue she brought up (which I don't), for the sake of argument - all of the issues are addressable and workable. However, the betrayal, disrespect, deceit, and complete lack of trust is a much more difficult mountain to climb. She simply doesn't see it that way - she still rationalizes and almost justifies it (wasn't getting the attention at home that she was getting at work). I brought it up that not a single time over the past 10 years has she ever said to me "look, I feel the following because....and we need to work on it/etc". Not once. I absolutely agreed that I was far from perfect and needed to work on some of the things she brought up - all the while illustrating for her that I fact do much of which she says I don't and gave numerous examples. Again, I fully admit I could work on some of that which she brought up. 

I pointed out to her it was two way street...I asked her when was the last time she paid a compliment to me? While I do not need such constant reaffirmation, I pointed out to her that the very things she feels I do not do enough, she doesn't do at all (aside from the occasional "you like nice" when we go out to dinner). 

I made sure to go over the things that I do LIKE about her: smart, pretty, witty, hard worker, great mother, great lover, etc) and that the positive things far outweigh the negative...(recent events aside). I didn't want to this to be all negative, but not once did I hear the same.

I told her that not once during the marriage have I betrayed her or caused her to lose trust in me. Now however, because of HER actions and her actions alone, I feel betrayed, dishonored, and frankly spit upon. 

Clearly there are issues and problems afoot that may or may not have contributed to her having an EA with the coworker. But what about her claim that she has been propositioned by another guy to have an affair (same guy? different guy?) - my guess that only happens after she put herself into a situation/relationship that go to a point where it was the next logical step, at least for the other guy? I didn't even have the energy last night to dig further into that - she claims it didn't happen because it was wrong/etc. I want to to know who that was - a friend? Somebody we have over socially? Somebody she works with? Is it even true? <sigh> 

She did mention that it might be a good idea for us to seek counseling. I am sitting on this fence about this, but it might be helpful for her to hear things from a third party.

The discussion last night ended when we were going in circles - she didn't like hearing that she betrayed me, lied to me, etc, she would get really upset and start bringing up the things about me that make her unhappy - she wouldn't see that the what she DID was far worse than anything I DIDN'T do.

This AM things were OK (still sleeping in the same bedroom). She gave me a hug and told me she loves me - whether she means it or not, I don't know. She did make it a point to inform me that all password protection/etc is off her computer...(last night I told her I frankly don't care anymore about her computer/phone, as I have seen all I need to see).

I would be lying if I said I was optimistic about the future of our marriage. I have tried for three weeks now to do the right thing...pay more attention to her, tried to put everything on the table, tried to talk about problems, tell her I love her, communicate during the day while at work, etc....all it got me was more lies and deceit - and she isn't the least bit remorseful (or if she is, she doesn't verbalize it). If she doesn't see it for what it is, how can she promise not to go down the same path the next time she is unhappy?

I guess for now, we will take it day by day, but living with uncertainty abound is enough to make me want to throw in the towel.

Thanks again for the replies...this has been and continues to be somewhat therapeutic.


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## Amplexor

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> I sat attentively, but will add that listening to a spouse go down a list of things, all negative, about you is not easy - but I just sat and listened and never interrupted (mind you, there were many a time I wanted to interrupt and contest what she was saying, as it was inaccurate...but I didn't). .


CC: I went through this exact scenario nearly 2 years ago so I understand your feelings here. It is difficult but a necessary step in recovery. While she gave you the laundry list you were absolutely correct in just listening to her. She needed to get it out and you needed to hear it, even if much of it is not fair to you, it is how she feels. Spend some time thinking about these issues with a lot of self reflection. I took about a week while traveling on business and it brought a lot of things into perspective. But remember this is not all about you, she is the one who engaged in an improper relationship and used deceit to cover it up. Accept what errors you have made, commit to your changes and move forward.



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> Basically, she positioned the EA as a symptom, not the problem and justified it because it felt good to be told she was funny, smart, etc (my guess is attractive and sexy as well).


Sorry to say she is exactly right in calling the EA an symptom of the problems in the marriage. I used those exact words with my wife about her EA. Your wife engaged in it because she was not getting what she felt she needed at home. TOM gave her the attention she was looking for. This is not an unusual situation, we all like to be complemented. I appreciate it when I get complements from women at work or business. But your wife went over the line in letting the relationship move on to something it shouldn’t have. I suspect she still does not realize what this really is. It took my wife 7 months to realize her feelings for TOM were feelings of love. And when she did she was shocked and saddened that it had happened to her. As far as the compliments and such begin to give those to her but don’t go overboard. She will not accept them for a while and will see it as shallow and controlling. It will take time for you to work your way back in. 



ConfusedinColumbus said:


> She did mention that it might be a good idea for us to seek counseling. I am sitting on this fence about this, but it might be helpful for her to hear things from a third party.


I believe it is essential that you enter into counseling. It may take a third party to get her to understand what this relationship is and help her to stop rationalizing it. Because they work together your situation is even more dangerous because of the daily contact. My recommendation down the road is that she seek new employment. Until she fully breaks from him emotionally it will be difficult for her to return to you. Your quest in the short term will be difficult. You will need to be steadfast in your boundaries in her non business contact with him but you will need to be supportive as she distances herself from him. She is not at the point yet where she understands the poison she has let into your marriage. Only time and effort on a sustained basis will likely start to bring her back. As I said I found out about my wife's EA nearly two years ago. The marriage was probably in trouble for five years before that. While we have made great strides in communication, parenting and recognizing each others talents and gifts the marriage is still sexless and my love is not returned. But we are still together and working towards what we once had that was so special. I hope your recovery is quicker but be prepared that it will likely take months. Good luck!


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## Deejo

It can be difficult to get a real sense of people or circumstances within the narrow scope of a forum, but your approach is positive, and you seem level-headed.

I agree with Amplexor that you need a counselor to act as an objective third party in trying to navigate through this. I also encourage people to shop for a counselor like you would any service professional. It is important that the counselor you choose is a good fit. Finding the counselor and setting the appointment may be an action you want to take ownership of – so you have a better idea of what to expect. It’s an intimidating prospect for people that have no previous experience with therapy.

I can also tell you that the fundamental question that a therapist is going to ask you, is: “Why are you here?”

It’s important to have the right perspective on that question. You are going to therapy with your wife to determine if you can salvage your marriage and rebuild a bond of trust, respect, and love.
The crap that has led you there has taken place over years from your wife’s perspective, and there has been a defining event (the EA) from your perspective. Be open to the process, and recognize that it is going to take a long time and a great deal of work on both of your parts to get by this. 

You also get to decide when enough is enough. Reconciliation may not be the outcome of therapy. Therapy may clarify what you _don’t_ want. 
This was the case for me. 

My last 2 cents, you both owe it to your kids to pursue every avenue in making a decision about the future of your family and well-being of your children. Do the therapy.


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## wanttobehappy

I'm not as great at words as everyone else but I know your pain! I agree with letting whoever is effected by this should know! I hope evrything goes well for you..If everyone would be honest, I don't think it would need to be so bad!!
Goodluck!


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Peaks and valleys, peaks and valleys...

For the most part, things have improved since last week: gone on a "date night", talked, been intimate, working on the issues I believe I need to work on, passwords gone, etc... Also, my wife saw a therapist yesterday and is returning later this week (made the appointment on her own). We will likely have a "couples" session sometime next week or the week after. The therapist gave my wife an optimistic prognosis...as we are still talking, taking the right steps, and believes there is already a strong foundation to work from (but clearly there are things that need immediate addressing). I will add, my wife was rather exhausted and feeling down after the session, but says she is fully onboard with trying to make things right (I bent over backwards to not "rub it in" so to speak, but rather encouraged her and reiterated my commitment to her, family, and the marriage).

I still have battle wounds from the EA, but I hope in time they will heal. In hindsight, I am so glad I brought this to a head when I did, shining a big, bright spotlight on all of those involved... and putting everyone on notice, including TOM and his wife. 

Knowing that this likely will be a long road with many peaks and valleys, I am cautiously optimistic and keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks for everyone's continued support and advice. 

CC


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## Deejo

You have taken and continue to take all the right steps. I sincerely wish you and your spouse well.

The fact that your wife seemed 'spent' after therapy is also very encouraging. It means she's doing real work and not paying it lip-service. The therapy sessions in which you make the most progress are often the ones you walk out of feeling like absolute crap.


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## Amplexor

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> Knowing that this likely will be a long road with many peaks and valleys, I am cautiously optimistic and keeping my fingers crossed.
> CC


Lots of good signs here CC. Keep up your good work and commitment to yourself, your wife and family. Do not rub it in, time to put egos aside and let things heal. There will likely be more painful steps ahead so keep things as smooth as possible. Continue to give her accolades for her efforts. What she is doing is the right thing but likely incredibly difficult for her at this time. Good luck.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

And it continues...

She sent/exchanged multiple texts with TOM yesterday AFTER she left work...<sigh>

Haven't confronted her about this yet, but I am sure it won't be pretty (fully expecting the usual - "why are you looking at my phone bill/etc"). She knows I can see these texts (not content), but yet she does it. Damn.


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## Amplexor

While you can’t be forgiving forever it is not a surprise she has stubbed her toe. The process of disconnecting from him will be difficult but it must be done. When you confront her remind her of the boundaries you agreed on and that this cannot continue. She also needs to understand that just as she is hurting in ending this relationship you to suffer in working to regain trust in her. You both have work to do.


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## Blue

Your wife needs to suffer and feel some consquences of her choices and actions. Right now she is in an affair fog, and only thinking of herself. I'm sure she's sorry (sorry she got caught) but she's not sorry enough to STOP this inappropriate behaviour with her married coworker. 

If your marriage has a chance to work, she has to consider changing jobs or asking for a transfer, away from the married man. And, they need to STOP communicating and go no contact. 

Does this guy's wife know about the EA? That's another option .. Tell her so it'll help stop the affair from continuing.

Question - Are you sure it was just an EA? Most people who cheat and get busted lie and deny, let alone minimize details. 

Sorry to hear you're going through this.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

The peaks and valleys continue...

Things went horribly south last week, improved, and then ended with a plateau of sorts. 

After her last therapy session (week and a half a go), I did notice she was emotionally drained and she became somewhat ambivalent and a tad distant. The original game plan was for her to go to 1 or 2 sessions alone before going together. Something happened during her last session wherein the therapist suggested she come back a few more times alone before a couples' session. With me leaving on business this week, I didn't want to delay getting in to see the therapist so I suggested I go in alone before traveling - and to a certain degree, I wanted the therapist to hear "my side" so to speak and make sure she had the complete story before the couples' session. Wife was on board and I made the call.

In the interim, we talked a little about her last session and I ask if any discussion about TOM arose...she said not really, as it isn't really an issue...HUH? Understand that I have been bending over backwards to work on the areas I believe need working on. However, I haven't really seen any work or effort on her part to regain my trust/etc (correction to my previous post, her phone is still LOCKED). Recently, I was doing some thinking and I got a little angry, in that all I saw were my efforts and her ambivalence. She is the one who has lied, betrayed, and covered up....not me and I don't see any remorse/etc. 

Off to the therapist...

The therapist is fully onboard with this being, at best case scenario, an EA. She asked if anything more had happened, what I would do...I told her I would leave and divorce me wife. I didn't get the warm fuzzies from the question...maybe just a standard question. I vented for a good 1/2 hour and gave her some background I am sure she hadn't heard. She wants to focus on the areas we can use as a door into therapy...rather than focus on the bad/EA/etc...as doing so, she believes, will doom us. She thinks we can revisit those things after we strengthen our marriage as it is in crisis and kept together my a single, frayed piece of wire (metaphorically of course). OK, I get it...but I have a hard time moving forward without my wife recognizing how damaging her actions have been. I also got the impression that the therapist recognizes my wife's ambivalence. Not that it was needed, but it was nice to receive reaffirmation from the therapist. Of course, my "mea culpa" was recognizing (without prompting) areas of the marriage that I need to work on.

The therapist said she would like to see my wife once more (this week while I am a way) and then as a joint session after my return.

After the session and once home, I learned that my wife had exchanged texts with TOM again (see previous post), ironically during my session with the therapist...<sigh> This made me angry. I did make mention to the therapist that my wife continues to communicate with TOM (outside of work) and sought guidance and dealing with this...she suggested telling my wife I love her and committed to working on X and Y, BUT she has to stop communicating with TOM (sounds familiar, have only had that conversation at least a dozen times now).

I raised this with my wife and she tells me it was work-related and scolded me for again looking at the phone bill. I explained to her there is no reason to contact this guy outside of work: zero, nada, zilch. I then began talking about how ambivalent she appears and that how I don't see any effort on her part to regain my trust and work on the marriage....she stated that she was indeed making efforts, as she "was still here". I almost walked out of the room with that reply, very telling. She recognized that I get "an A for effort" on working on things, to which I responded she gets "a D for her lack of effort". She responded and took that position that she didn't do anything wrong. Wow, talk about one step forward and two backward... I couldn't believe I heard that and called her on it...things got a little heated to say the least (I attempted to illustrate the obvious). I told her my energy and patience are finite and if we BOTH are committed to making this work, there is no point in continuing. Still denies it was an EA and is VERY uncomfortable with me, the therapist, and others calling it what it is (still touting it as a simple friendship...I had to remind her that she had previously admitted she loved the attention he gave her/etc).

I asked her to show me the text messages between her and TOM, if they were work-related, that would go along way in starting to regain my trust...she wouldn't show them to me because she wasn't "going to live like this". Wow, that speaks volumes. Nothing to hide, then prove to me it was benign work chat...my guess it was both work and EA related.

We ended this "discussion" with her promising to work on the marriage/etc...I took that with a grain of salt. Same story, different day.

The next AM I see yet another text from TOM to my wife which appeared to go unanswered. While considering the "Nuclear Option", my wife texts me with "he texted me again this AM, wishing me good luck on the project, which is what we were texting/emailing about the last couple days, you can read them if you want". My wife gets a few points back for that, but in my book she is still running a deficit. 

We had a pretty good weekend, she tells me she wishes I wasn't going away, loves me, etc. We spent a lot of time this weekend as a family.

I think getting away for five days will be good for both of us. 

She is scheduled to see the therapist tomorrow and we will likely have a session together next week.

Thanks for the continued insight, advice, and support.

CC


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## Amplexor

Hey CC, this roller coaster comes with free reruns doesn’t it? I do hope it levels a bit for you in the future. It is emotionally draining. In short your wife is either in denial or is completely unaware of what this relationship really is. The fact that they work together really complicates things and until she recognizes that this is an EA and she IS likely in love with this guy she will likely continue to act in a manner of ambivalence. I like the therapist approach to work on other aspects of the marriage first to strengthen it before the ultimate show down in the future. I think that my help when the two of you are ready to discuss and resolve that issue. You are perfectly correct in monitoring the communications even though she resents it. You might keep that in the back ground for now just so you understand what the level of communications is as you move forward. Good luck.


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## texdude32

ConfusedinColumbus

I know exactly where you are at. You have gone alot farther than me. See "my wifes best friend is an man". Congrads on the email deal but you have the same problem I have. No hard proof of any thing. If only you could read text msgs huh. I do not want to alarm you but I would watch here text while you are gone. I too get the "I love you, we are just friends" but she has several girlfreinds and they talk 1-2 times per week. denial denial is all I hear. Good luck and I hope you two can work it out.


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## Mdcl33

Hey Confused, join the club. I wish I would have found this post sooner. I have been and am still going through an exact scenario with my wife. I busted her about 2 months ago. Different situation but same circumstances. We started taking ballroom dance lessons (which she has always desired) about 2 years ago and got to know the owners. Long story short, she got real close to her "instructor" - the male counterpart of the owners. I know something was different with her over about a 3 month period so I started investigating. I looked at her cell phone records and found she was talking to him on the phone constantly when I was not around. Coincidental huh? 

Your story plays out almost exactly like mine. She was sort of apologetic at first. I had to get really insanely mad to get my point across. However, 2 months later, we still have issues about it because she is not really sorry and still desires to have a relationship of some sort with this guy. If I am not mistaken, she told me he was "like a brother". I suppose it is hard to quit someone cold turkey when those emotions exist.

I am not concerned about a physical affair since the guy is not attractive at all. I would be surprised if she did. In any case, I am sorry to tell you this but the feeling os mistrust and suspicion does not go away quickly. I still find myself suspicious of her to this day. The trust has been broken and it hurts bad. It's really a bad thing when that happens and I don't know how to get it back.

I feel for you big time. I am still going through these feelings. If she does not love me, then just TELL ME. Instead she plays games and patronizes me. My wife "tells" when she is going to call him so she can supposedly schedule lessons and so forth. What BS that I still have to deal with this but I do. If I cut off her dancing (which she loves) then I am still the bad guy. Know what I mean?

I wish I had answers for you. Let me know how the therapy goes because I am almost to that point. I need someone else to look at her and tell her that having an emotional relationship behind your husband's back is not appropriate it. However, I suspect that she would just be defensive or dismissive.

I am sure you are dumbfounded like I am that a woman would put her marriage and family (we have kids) in a compromising position like this. I thought men were the ones who did stuff like this.

I know some people will tell you that you are to blame somehow because of some need you did not fulfill and all that. While that may be initially one of the causes, that is not an excuse or any reason for any part of the whole EA to continue. I mean enough is enough, there has to be a point where she says OK I give up or OK I will do what you want. Instead, it sounds like both of our wives want to have their cake and eat it too.

We can certainly share some thoughts and plans here because I am in the same exact situation you are. In fact, I joined this website to "get back" at her in a way for all the emotional rollercoaster BS she has put me through. I had to find somewhere to vent because I was going crazy.

What's the next step for you because I can tell you it will not get better anytime soon? I am trying (and have tried) all the stuff you have thinking she would come to some realization of truth. It has not happened. Meanwhile, the source of the problem is still ever present since we still take lessons from them.

Sorry this is so long. I just thought I would let you know that here is another good honest family man out there who is being subjected to the same BS you are. If I was a bad uncaring husband who never gave his wife any attention then I could see why she would do something like this. But I am not and I don't deserve this. Nobody does.


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## Blue

> ...she wouldn't show them to me because she wasn't "going to live like this". Wow, that speaks volumes. Nothing to hide, then prove to me


That's because there obviously was something she didn't want you to see. And her showing you the other text just means that particular one was innocent enough to show you. 

She doesn't get it yet which means she's still in a fog and can't or won't see the damage she's doing. She isn't willing to come forth and be an openbook because she DOES have stuff to hide.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Just returned from a business trip.

While away, we did manage to have a HUGE blow out (via email/text/phone). Before I left I promised myself I would not check phone records while away, didn't want to ruing my trip and I have since come to the conclusion that I CANNOT control her behavior (that is, can't stop her from carrying on the EA if she so chooses). As such, the argument had nothing to do with recent (known) contact with TOM as discovered by examining the phone/text bill.

We were having a late night discussion on the phone and she become uber-defensive, unbelievabley so - I was simply voicing some concerns (mind you, this is after talking about positive things, reiterating my love for her, etc). She had visited with the therapist again earlier that day, this, coupled with a few obvious glasses of wine on her part and it was a recipe for a rumble...she just lost it...became defensive, defended TOM, called me a few choice names, denied ANY wrong doing, etc....hung up on me and then sent a text telling me she had a lawyer and suggested I get one as well. Ugh.

I responded (via text) agreeing to divorce; asked for her lawyer's name (so I can have my lawyer reach out to her lawyer); and then explained that SHE will have to explain to the kids why mommy cheated on daddy...told her that my patience and energy are finite and close to, if not already exhausted...and then a big "f you". <sigh>

Needless to say that didn't go over too well, a few less than romantic emails were later received (READ: telling me I need to move out, she didn't do anything wrong, blah...blah...blah) which I ignored. We did speak the next AM. She apologized and I again explained to her that if I don't see effort or change on her part, I am out - tired of having the same damn conversation every few weeks now. I have always said that as long as I can look my kids in the eyes and say "daddy tried everything", I will then be able look in the mirror, albeit with some grief, and move on. Long story short, she AGAIN tells me she wants to make this work, loves me, etc. Told her I have heard it before and it was time to prove it...I told her that her actions need to parallel her words. 

A short time later, she emailed saying she recognized most of this is her fault (a first) and apologized for hurting me and throwing away my trust. She also said she will do whatever it takes to regain my trust and wants to "start over"...in that there was a time when we were both happy and she wants to get there again (another first).

I was actually encouraged when I read this email, she said things I hadn't heard, but wanted/needed to hear (mea culpa, apologizing for HER actions, recognizing the damage done, etc). I reiterated my desire and commitment to making this work.

My return was warm and no fires have erupted since. We had a nice weekend together as a family. I continue to take it one day at a time. 

She will see the therapist once more before we attend a session together (she again tells me she has some things to work out, don't know the details of these "things", but clearly issues that need addressing). 

This is truly an exhausting and numbing experience. I am tired, so very tired.

I very much feel as if the next few weeks/months will make or break us. If I don't see her make substantial and considerable efforts at remedying the problems we have, brought to a head by her EA and the related baggage it brings (betrayal, deceit, lies, etc), then it will be time for separation...not going to continue this for years to come in hopes of her changing and her regaining my trust, all the while I spend considerable emotional capital on trying to improve the marriage.

It was actually good for me to be away for almost a week, able to do a lot of thinking, socializing with friends/colleagues, but it also reminded me of how I long for my kids when away... reinforcing my commitment to resolving these marital woes.

CC


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## Amplexor

Good and bad CC but for the most part I think it was positive. Maybe between you and the counselor she is beginning to realize how damaging her actions are to you and her family. Good luck and carry on.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Thanks Amp, appreciate the continued support/advice.

Her _mea culpa_ went a long way with me and gives me some needed hope. There was something very different about her contrition this time...I could be wrong and still in a fog myself, but for the first time she seems to recognize and acknowledge the damage she has caused the marriage/family (of course, I still recognize my shortcomings in the marriage and continue to work on them).

Only time will tell whether this works out or not, but fingers still crossed.

CC


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## WILLARD

Having been through this myself I can only comment on the following: 
1. The number of years married - not important (I was married for 26 years at that point). It can happen to anyone.
2. You will never trust your partner again - EVER.
3. Whether a PA or EA - it has the same effect on the relationship.
4. Having children complicates things - and is never a solution.
5. If you have no children - accept the situation - or get out.

I can tell you this and that...but at the end of it all ...only one person matters..YOU.

Treat this (my fried says) like that first BAD car you bought. Dump it, and find a model that suites you better.


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## clsell1234

Confusedincolumbus... Wow, mirror image.... How did your story work out?


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## strugglinghusband

clsell1234 said:


> Confusedincolumbus... Wow, mirror image.... How did your story work out?


thread is over 3 yrs old, maybe try PMing him..


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## Amplexor

Crashed and burned, he left her as he should have. 

Dead Thread


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## clsell1234

...arrrggg


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## WyshIknew

Amplexor said:


> Crashed and burned, he left her as he should have.
> 
> Dead Thread


Are you sure?

Last post I can see started by him, 3rd December 2009 suggests she was truly remorseful :rofl: and they were trying to work it out.

And again 19th October 2010 he stated they are working it out. Given her track record I am dubious. Unfortunately he no longer visits the forum so we will not know if it worked.


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## Deejo

I used to correspond with CIC frequently.

He did move out. Wife didn't think he would. She has an issue with alcohol. Was usually the catalyst in their fights.

She swore she would work at the relationship, he moved back home.

As of his last post, they were trying to make a go of it but he was dubious.

He was prepared to pull the trigger if necessary.


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## RClawson

One of the most brutal threads I have ever read.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Wow, really hard to believe it has been almost three years since my original post.

To clarify, I never moved out - I did though, file for divorce, but then decided to try and reconcile.

Currently, I am still married - in large part due to my kids…as I have said before, but for them, I would have left a long time ago. While I don't believe she has hooked up with anyone since, she does continue to have a drinking problem and the inability to always be truthful and live within boundaries…all of which is hugely problematic for me. 

I am in a good place for the most part (less the obvious) …look and feel great, confident, etc - all of which has resulted in numerous temptations with women ranging in age from 26-43. Recently, I did succumb to that temptation, in that I met a beautiful, intelligent, and professional woman - who's husband also cheated on her (more than once). Nothing was planned - this was a chance encounter…but we both felt emotions that we thought were long gone. It quickly developed into a PA. We have recently pulled the plug on this - as we still have some hope to keep our families together. But honestly, I miss her greatly…and if anything, she has proven to me that there are indeed others out there who are arguably better for me. But then, I think of my kids.

It has been a good exercise for me to re-read some of my threads/posts - reminds me of what I have gone through and shows me how little things have changed (my PA notwithstanding).

I wish I had a happy ending to share w/everyone, but it is what it is…incredibly complex. Guessing some dagger throwing and flaming will now commence, but oddly and maybe even surprisingly, I don't feel much guilt for the PA - I am thankful that I was able to get to, albeit briefly, a good place emotionally with another woman…that in itself gave me hope.

CC


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## Madman1

Thanks for the update man.

Are you going to cut her lose when the kids get older?

I dont think I could have stayed with her myself.

Im not gonna flame you, your in a tough spot!

Hope you find some peace.


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## MrK

WOW. A dead thread that actually came back to life. 

Good luck man.


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## WyshIknew

No foul from me!

What you do is up to you, and let's face it a wayward spouse can hardly complain if a former betrayed spouse gets a little action.


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## Amplexor

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> To clarify, I never moved out - I did though, file for divorce, but then decided to try and reconcile.


My error then CC, may have had you confused with another. My apologies to you and the members. Best of luck, I hope you find a good place for yourself.


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Amp - no apology needed my friend...with as many as you have aided, no one can expect you to remember all the minutiae  You, Deejo, and many others provided sage advice that without question, helped steer me through rough waters. 

My journey isn't over, but God knows I need the well wishes...thanks!

CC


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## Amyd

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> Would appreciate some advice/insight to my current dilemma...
> 
> Just discovered that my wife of 10 years and a married male co-worker exchanged over 700 text messages in a one month period, including 40+ messages on Christmas day. Text sessions have sometimes been for 60-90 minutes straight, a night while at home. Texts occur in the AM, PM and weekends. She deletes her emails/texts. We went to dinner with this co-worker and his wife (before I knew about the "relationship") and learned that he sent a text to her while at dinner (presumably when he went to the restroom) and another after dinner.
> 
> When confronted about this, she claims its nothing and they are just friends. She does not believe it is inappropriate, as she is "one of the guys" and this coworker in question is just a friend. No explanation as to what they talked about on Christmas or why she deletes her texts/emails.
> 
> She continues to text him, too early to tell if it is less so. Mind you, she sees him almost everyday at work.
> 
> This is her second marriage, she did cheat on her first husband with a coworker (she downplays that because she was young and unhappily married).
> 
> Thanks,
> ConfusedinColumbus


Where does she find the time to do all of this texting??


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## ConfusedinColumbus

Amyd said:


> Where does she find the time to do all of this texting??


Amyd - the texting was from 3yrs ago, not an issue now, but many of the same things are (drinking, trust, and boundaries). All of which has been complicated by my recent PA (unknown to my wife).

The thing I struggle with now is that having emotionally connected with somebody (and physically - but that has never been an issue for my wife and I), I yearn for the "good place" I felt when I was with the OW. Honestly, I am grieving since we decided to end it as everything seemed to make sense when we were together. But alas, it was unsustainable, and we both recognized this. But man, did she make me feel good.

I am going to soldier through the holidays after which I will bring things to a head in hopes of some sort of finality - either she gets her $hit together, I accept the situation for what it is and stay in for the sake of my kids, or I move on.

CC


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## Amplexor

ConfusedinColumbus said:


> I am going to soldier through the holidays after which I will bring things to a head in hopes of some sort of finality - either she gets her $hit together, I accept the situation for what it is and stay in for the sake of my kids, or I move on.
> 
> CC


During our R, I had to take that route a couple of times. Some times it is necessary to put your spouse in situations that are uncomfortable that they just can't walk away from. Force the issue. It is too easy for the WS to live in the status quo and float along. They may be resistant to trying to improve for various reasons. It would acknowledge their faults, resurface past indiscretions or force them to open themselves up to vulnerability to their spouse. (As was the case with my wife.) There is a huge difference between sustaining a marriage and growing one. I could have lived out my years with an emotionless wife in a sexless marriage but let her know I was unwilling to. It was time to either make efforts to move forward or apart if need be. Good luck CC. It can be done, I hope you find the path.


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## SadReality

Just stumbled upon this thread obviously substantially after the fact.
Having lived through both sides of this scenario personally I will contribute these tidbits:
1) for sure an EA is every bit as hurtful to the relationship as a PA
2) If the partner/spouse has passwords and security it is for good reason - communication is inappropriate and they know it
3) When they go down the path of what all is wrong with you and the marriage/relationship they are as good as admitting that they have sought an alternative and are involved with that
4) - to me this is the key: people cheat for many reasons.....some for physical intimacy, some for the thrill of the hunt, some for the emotional connection - whatever the reason - and often it is not even related to you or how you are - but whatever the reason trust is broken and lost and is extremely difficult to impossible to regain
5) If we are truly dedicated to the principals of love and marriage we are so susceptible to the lies and ongoing misleading communication.....we so badly want to believe and cling to any tidbit of hope or light......and in fact we are simply prolonging our own misery and headed for the same ultimate conclusion

Sadly, my conclusion of the matter is this: regardless of the reason you were cheated on, you will likely continue to love the other person......regardless of whether you are with them or not. Your life has been forever altered outside of your control and you can only try to pick up your own pieces to the extent you can. 

I am sorry for how this impacts everyone and all to well know the pain.


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## MachoMcCoy

The thread that refuses to die!


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## Deejo

My mistake, I thought OP posted an update. Thread is 5 years old. Closing it out.


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