# Good article about responsive / spontaneous desire



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

The Science of Saving Your Sex Life


To Maximize Your Potential, Maximize Pleasure




emilynagoski.bulletin.com





... and also touches on how much drug companies would like to make this into a disorder they can sell a pill for


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Laurentium said:


> The Science of Saving Your Sex Life
> 
> 
> To Maximize Your Potential, Maximize Pleasure
> ...


A pill that lots of unattractive husbands would no doubt demand (and then beg) their wives to take daily - rather than just doing the work to become a more attractive, desirable man, and then doing the work to actually initiate effectively to ignite their wife’s desire.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> A pill that lots of unattractive husbands would no doubt demand (and then beg) their wives to take daily - rather than just doing the work to become a more attractive, desirable man, and then doing the work to actually initiate effectively to ignite their wife’s desire.


The real danger with hormone treatments and future libido drugs is they may stimulate a woman’s desire,, but not necessarily for her H.

if he has let himself go or the relationship has gone sour, she may get horny all right, but it will be for Sven From Yoga or Steve From Accounting and not the H.

it’s better for people to learn more about how desire and response and attraction to work rather than pumping people full of horny drugs and hoping the horniness works in their favor.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> The real danger with hormone treatments and future libido drugs is they may stimulate a woman’s desire,, but not necessarily for her H.
> 
> if he has let himself go or the relationship has gone sour, she may get horny all right, but it will be for Sven From Yoga or Steve From Accounting and not the H.
> 
> it’s better for people to learn more about how desire and response and attraction to work rather than pumping people full of horny drugs and hoping the horniness works in their favor.


Can't we have just a little bit?

Oh, for sex you mean. Never mind. That's all good.

😎😎😎🤣🤣🤣🤣

Just kidding. Just say no. 🙄


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> A pill that lots of unattractive husbands would no doubt demand (and then beg) their wives to take daily - rather than just doing the work to become a more attractive, desirable man, and then doing the work to actually initiate effectively to ignite their wife’s desire.


Guys letting themselves go and getting fat and lazy is part of the loss of desire equation, but the shift from SD to RD over time is a thing.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Laurentium said:


> The Science of Saving Your Sex Life
> 
> 
> To Maximize Your Potential, Maximize Pleasure
> ...


Thanks for sharing. Interesting discussion on responsive desire. And female sexual response.

There is another thread in the General Relationship section on Orgasm Meditation. I commented on that in regards to Sensate focus exercises and Vagus Nerve stimulation, both of which I think can help women achieve the kind of sexual response the article you posed indicates.

From the article you posted, ".....Schedule intimate time together. Show up at the appointed time in *a curious or neutral state of mind*. Get in bed together, skin to skin, and see what happens, without expectation or demand. Be kind to each other, and affectionate. Allow desire to grow in response to a slow warm up......" I think the key either to the drug, or the positive sexual experience is how to get that curious, neutral state of mind. 

I would suggest that either Sensate focus exercises or vagus nerve stimulation can both help set the stage for good orgasmic sex by a woman. Just my opinion.

Thank you again for posting the article.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Guys letting themselves go and getting fat and lazy is part of the loss of desire equation, but the shift from SD to RD over time is a thing.


Hence the need to learn how to flirt, play, initiate and escalate.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> The real danger with hormone treatments and future libido drugs is they may stimulate a woman’s desire,, but not necessarily for her H.
> 
> if he has let himself go or the relationship has gone sour, she may get horny all right, but it will be for Sven From Yoga or Steve From Accounting and not the H.
> 
> it’s better for people to learn more about how desire and response and attraction to work rather than pumping people full of horny drugs and hoping the horniness works in their favor.


Absolutely right.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> The real danger with hormone treatments and future libido drugs is they may stimulate a woman’s desire,, but not necessarily for her H.
> 
> if he has let himself go or the relationship has gone sour, she may get horny all right, but it will be for Sven From Yoga or Steve From Accounting and not the H.
> 
> it’s better for people to learn more about how desire and response and attraction to work rather than pumping people full of horny drugs and hoping the horniness works in their favor.


Absolutely. I think the reality is most women really do enjoy and want sex, but something about their husband has turned them off, to them, not to all sex.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Absolutely. I think the reality is most women really do enjoy and want sex, but something about their husband has turned them off, to them, not to all sex.


Agree fully ,

There is a Dr Trish Leigh that is worth looking up for people that ask about what is normal and not , 

what industry has thought us about what we should expect as normal is not all ways the true or whole picture ,


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> see what happens, without expectation or demand


I tend to say, "no sulking"


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DudeInProgress said:


> A pill that lots of unattractive husbands would no doubt demand (and then beg) their wives to take daily - rather than just doing the work to become a more attractive, desirable man, and then doing the work to actually initiate effectively to ignite their wife’s desire.


At 50 I have more muscle than ever. ~10 years ago, I said screw the beta passive hubby crap and became the man of the house, dropped 50 lbs and buffed up. Now my wife sees my SMV probably 2 pts higher than her. We have very active sex life since. I tell her, she is the one working my abbs! If I don't initiate, she does, most times it is just given, if it is before 11:30pm when we get in bed, sex is gonna occur. The muscles make her 🔥. She says me being hung like her personal stud horse does not hurt either. Baby, flattery will get you everywhere!😋

Another thing is, when I wake her up each morning, the foreplay starts and last all day. By bedtime, she is more than ready to jump my bones.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> At 50 I have more muscle than ever. ~10 years ago, I said screw the beta passive hubby crap and became the man of the house, dropped 50 lbs and buffed up. Now my wife sees my SMV probably 2 pts higher than her. We have very active sex life since. I tell her, she is the one working my abbs! If I don't initiate, she does, most times it is just given, if it is before 11:30pm when we get in bed, sex is gonna occur. The muscles make her 🔥. She says me being hung like her personal stud horse does not hurt either. Baby, flattery will get you everywhere!😋
> 
> Another thing is, when I wake her up each morning, the foreplay starts and last all day. By bedtime, she is more than ready to jump my bones.


That's pretty awesome. It's also my goal to make my 50s better than my 20s. Stories like this help motivate.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Soon there will be a pill for everything. Oh wait...


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

SCDad01 said:


> Soon there will be a pill for everything. Oh wait...


Can you imagine if there was a pill to make women horny? 
(We already know what drug does that in the right dosage, it's called alcohol).


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> Can you imagine if there was a pill to make women horny?
> (We already know what drug does that in the right dosage, it's called alcohol).


LOL....it would sell out the first day!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> Can you imagine if there was a pill to make women horny?
> (We already know what drug does that in the right dosage, it's called alcohol).


This reminds that several years back there was some big pharma going to do trials for some female libido drug and part of the warnings of that drug was to not consume alcohol while taking it. 

I thought that was pretty ironic as alcohol has been widely known to drop panties for 9,000 years LOL


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I cite Dr Psych Mom ( Dr Samantha Rodman Whiten) quite a bit and she talks a lot about the typical attenuation of women's spontaneous desire in long term, monogamous relationships. 

I am also kind of fascinated by Dr Wednesday Martin's material on female sexuality. 

While some of their perspectives intersect, Dr Psych Mom (DPM) focus is towards long term relationships and therapy where as Dr Martin's focus is on evolutionary biology and anthropological research. 

Where both of them independently agree is that our cultural naratives and cultural teachings and expectations of female sexuality is just plain wrong. 

The prevailing narative that female libido is less than men's - Wrong. In fact Dr Martin even believes that in reality female sexuality is stronger and of higher capacity than mens. 

The concept that females are innately more sexually monogamous than men - Wrong. 

That women are more content and satisfied in a long term, monogamous relationship than men - Wrong.

That women do not have sexual couplings outside of relationship/marriage than men - Wrong. 

That humans are basically monogamous creatures by nature - Wrong. 

That men are the sexual aggressors and initiators, and that females are the coy, passive ladies in waiting - Wrong. 

So basically, a lot of the western cultural naratives that we have been brought up on since Darwin and the Victorian era as fact in sexuality is largely erroneous and based on flawed research and political and gender bias as well as social pressure and influence. 

The reality is female sexuality is no less than male sexuality, it just manifests differents in social interactions and has a bunch of other social and political influences and expectations. 

I've been saying all along here that women are no less sexual and no more pure or virtuous than men. Get them behind closed doors with assurance of discretion and privacy and they are just as sexual as any man. You just have to go behind the forbidden closed door to see that. 

What a lot of people's common experience with is what takes place publicly between traditional, married couples.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

I 2nd post by oldshirt

Initial sex attraction? Women - appearances/physique
Men - not commenting here

Long term sex attraction? Women - appearance/physique and PERSONALITY 
Men - not commenting here

Your woman isn't finding you sexually attractive now? 
Evaluate yourself both physically and as a person (Personality) - then "up your game" where needed.

One thing I found when dating - willing partners put personal hygiene near top of list of items to check off for before the fun begins.

A sailor buddy (USN service) asked me if I had any idea why he wasn't getting dates. He showered and 
had perfectly pressed clean clothes on. Car clean etc.

But - his hair smelled like 140 weight gear oil. Why? He often worked on axles and got oil in his hair 
and just soap wasn't enough to get out all the odor.
For those who have yet to experience 140 gear oil - it really stinks and is near 'stomach turning.'

He "cleaned up his act" and social life magically improved!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> The real danger with hormone treatments and future libido drugs is they may stimulate a woman’s desire,, but not necessarily for her H.
> 
> if he has let himself go or the relationship has gone sour, she may get horny all right, but it will be for Sven From Yoga or Steve From Accounting and not the H.
> 
> it’s better for people to learn more about how desire and response and attraction to work rather than pumping people full of horny drugs and hoping the horniness works in their favor.


This made me chuckle but it is absolutely correct. I once told my doctor during a relevant discussion that my desire is directly related to what I think of my options.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> This made me chuckle but it is absolutely correct. I once told my doctor during a relevant discussion that my desire is directly related to what I think of my options.


That is likely true in all things. Your options probably determine just about everything in your life. 

A Toyota Corolla is fine car. But will you drive a Corolla if you can easily afford a Mclaren? Actually, here is a better question, will you own ONLY a Corolla if you can easily buy a McLaren?? If you can easily afford a McLaren, then you can afford both a Mclaren and a Corolla. But what you take to get a load of groceries vs what you take to the fundraiser gala comes down to what options are available to you. 

The same will be true with anything personal/romantic/sexual in nature.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Laurentium said:


> Can you imagine if there was a pill to make women horny?


Women are already horny, so they don't need a pill for that.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Does your account of people make any distinction between conscious and unconscious behaviour?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Welcome back, by the way


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> Does your account of people make any distinction between conscious and unconscious behaviour?


To which ‘account’ are you referring to?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> That is likely true in all things. Your options probably determine just about everything in your life.
> 
> A Toyota Corolla is fine car. But will you drive a Corolla if you can easily afford a Mclaren? Actually, here is a better question, will you own ONLY a Corolla if you can easily buy a McLaren?? If you can easily afford a McLaren, then you can afford both a Mclaren and a Corolla. But what you take to get a load of groceries vs what you take to the fundraiser gala comes down to what options are available to you.
> 
> The same will be true with anything personal/romantic/sexual in nature.


Bearing in mind that the topic of this discussion is Responsive Desire...and that @lifeistooshort said (paraphrasing) that her desire was directly related to how she viewed the option... I found this perspective, @oldshirt , to be interesting. 

I would consider myself to be Responsive Desire in that I feel something toward the person and then respond to that in a physical way. I am visual and enjoy/appreciate a handsome figure, but it doesn't arouse me. If I'm not lovingly committed to the handsome figure, I respond in a way that feels very similar to a work of art or a moving classical piece of music. If I AM lovingly committed to the handsome figure, I respond to the loving feeling, not the handsomeness... make sense? So that's just me and how I operate. 

But your example piqued my interest even more! Because for me, I'll be honest--I can afford to buy almost any car I would ever want and pay cash for it. Now a McLaren is in the $200K range, but what's funny is that to me--I'd never buy a McLaren unless I was into racing, in which case it would be an expense toward my hobby, not for getting groceries. To make your example make more sense TO ME...I'd compare a Toyota Corolla and a Mercedes S-Class. A Corolla will get you where you want to go at an affordable-ish price...an S-Class is a finely engineered sedan with all the luxuries. Both would fit a family of four and put groceries in the back. Both would get you to the fundraising gala and back. 

Maybe it's because I'm a responsive desire person, but I wouldn't get an S-Class because "it's an option"...and if I had a Corolla I wouldn't just throw it in the ditch of someone offered me a free S-Class (in some fantasy-world...). I think each of them offers what they offer, and so I would determine what I need/want/like and pick a car closest to that...and then stick with that car. Right now, I drive a pickup truck...but if someone came to me and said "Woohoo here's a nice Porsche for ya!" I don't know that I'd jump on that because I picked a pickup truck because I need to haul stuff around! Can't haul much in a Porsche, even though the ride is a thrill. Even there--can't have a thrilling ride on a curvy road all blocked up with semis! So the "thrill" of the Porsche would be few and far between versus the comfort and dependability of my high-end pickup. LOL 

See? It's an interesting example, because it is SO *not *how I think. My desire is linked to connection, I believe.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yes I always find it funny when men tell us how we think. I do not get revved up by a set of pecs or a wallet.

I have to feel loved and accepted to feel horny. Wouldn't it be grand if that was understood on a more universal basis.
So a very handsome rich man could come up to me and flirt. That doesn't mean love or acceptance. I might be flattered but I wouldn't be horny.

Are there women who do get horny by a look or a wallet. Well I'm sure there are, as people come in all varieties.

The women I know who are having less sex with their husbands it is normally because they don't feel loved and accepted.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> .....Schedule intimate time together. Show up at the appointed time in *a curious or neutral state of mind*. Get in bed together, skin to skin, and see what happens, without expectation or demand. Be kind to each other, and affectionate. Allow desire to grow in response to a slow warm up......"


This is exactly what wife and I have done for nearly our entire marriage. My wife was the one who instigated this years ago. She has been RD our whole time together, so maybe the scheduling just came naturally for her. I will admit I show up with a lustful mind. Pavlov’s bell


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Affaircare said:


> Bearing in mind that the topic of this discussion is Responsive Desire...and that @lifeistooshort said (paraphrasing) that her desire was directly related to how she viewed the option... I found this perspective, @oldshirt , to be interesting.
> 
> I would consider myself to be Responsive Desire in that I feel something toward the person and then respond to that in a physical way. I am visual and enjoy/appreciate a handsome figure, but it doesn't arouse me. If I'm not lovingly committed to the handsome figure, I respond in a way that feels very similar to a work of art or a moving classical piece of music. If I AM lovingly committed to the handsome figure, I respond to the loving feeling, not the handsomeness... make sense? So that's just me and how I operate.
> 
> ...


I agree, and I'd add that cars are not a good comparison unless you view relationships as strictly transactional for the highest bidder.

When I said my desire was proportional to my options I wasn't implying a valuation method based on transactional criteria. Cars are valued based on market parameters.....ie cost of parts/labor and demand.

If we're going to talk cars I could say that even if I had 200k that was available for a car I'm not necessarily going to spend it on a Porsche because a Porsche just doesn't have that much value to me. True I might not want a 5k junker if I can do a little better but I might be perfectly happy with a 40k SUV. 

And we haven't even considered things like chemistry, pheromones, compatibility, etc.

What I value and what you value might be quite different. So my desire related to how I personally value my options, not how someone else might value them.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> To which ‘account’ are you referring to?


In my mind, I was replying to a post by "KindBuddha", but now I don't see it, so either I misremember or it's been removed.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Laurentium said:


> In my mind, I was replying to a post by "KindBuddha", but now I don't see it, so either I misremember or it's been removed.


I think kindbudha had to flee his basement or something similar, seems he and his posts have fled the scene.


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