# Religion and Coping with Infidelity



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

It seems we have had a several recent posts advocating strong religious themed messages. 

Not to start a holy war, but I was wondering how religion played into your marriage for:

1. Preventing infidelity.

2. Coping with the betrayal.

3. Coping with guilt.

4. Choosing to R or D.

5. Views on forgiveness.

6. Changes in your beliefs after going through infidelity.


I was a religious person most of my life. The process left me (BH - 45 at the time) feeling less religious to my old faith. I would also add that I feel spiritual toward God, but not desiring the organized religion that I used to love.

Just curious about the role religion has played in your process and in your future.

I really have respected most posters using religion as a possible resource when appropriate, but I also enjoy keeping views of our beliefs in check as we discuss a very difficult topic (cheating and betrayal).


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> It seems we have had a several recent posts advocating strong religious themed messages.
> 
> Not to start a holy war, but I was wondering how religion played into your marriage for:
> 
> ...


God gave us free will and according to everything I read God wants a personal relationship not one the relies on a church or other people to make you believe their point of view. 

Anyway to me The choices we make are ours to make. God will do his best with what he give him. If everyone followed God and believed in him and followed his path then Everyone would have one partner unless that partner died. Two wrongs don't make a right and there we would be in perfect paradise. That world does not exist. 
So the choice to cheat belongs to that of the cheater. 
The choice to murder belongs to that of the murderer. 
The opportunity to do the right thing is always there...
So through what I experienced I never suspected my wife was doing something wrong. But one day just like every other day I just suddenly got the urge to check our phone records. I never had thought to before then and I truly never cared to before that DDAY, I was happy and I believed in my wife and the marriage we were in. 

So I sought help here on TAM I read my bible and followed the advice I got from both. Now my wife and I have R'd and she just gave birth to our amazing baby girl this last Saturday. 

If you are looking to God to change things or do things for you then you will be forever waiting. You do the work and you will be surprised how things just seem to fall in line.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

I can relate to this. Thanks for sharing.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Interesting topic, I'm sure there will be a wide variety of viewpoints. I'm coming from the viewpoint of a Christian male who found out his wife had 2 'cyber affairs' with old friends from HS. These affairs included graphic sexual chats but no pictures. She realized what she did was wrong and had stopped these about six months prior to my discovery. These males live nearby, and although the possibility exists that things went physical, she adamantly denies that it did. The online stuff I read was enough to make me feel she betrayed her vow to me. She also lied to my face about it saying 'she would never do something like that to me'. 

--------------------------
wondering how religion played into your marriage for:

1. Preventing infidelity.

In our vows before God on our wedding day we said, "forsaking all others." Both my FWW and I took that quite literally. She is ashamed by her actions. The lying until confronted with evidence also breaks the honoring each other clause too.

2. Coping with the betrayal.

This was difficult for me as the BS. I'm sure Jesus would forgive. But I'm not Jesus. I worried that forgiving and moving on "rewards" the behavior. But divorcing over a 1st time offense seemed drastic. I was, and to some degree and very conflicted about this. I choose to reconcile. Spiritually I know that is the right thing. FWW changed some of her behaviors and drastically altered her Facebook usage (per my demands, but she fell in line without much argument). 

3. Coping with guilt.

I felt a great amount of guilt for letting our relationship deteriorate to this low of a point. We were not spending time together. I was moody and irritable. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel any guilt around her choice to cheat or lie. That's all on her. I think the guilt I did feel about our relationship helped me to be open to reconciling. We both had things we need to forgive each other for.

4. Choosing to R or D.

Three things motivated me to reconcile. 1.) My vow for "better or for worse"; 2.) Not wanting to divide the house until the kids are out (only four more years, then that's not a factor); and 3.) I still love her. 

I take my vows seriously. But I'd be a hypocrite to say I've been perfect. I have done plenty that 'did not honor' my wife. It wasn't as flagrant as telling an old HS friend how much she likes having her boobies sucked, but still. We all fall short. 

5. Views on forgiveness.

It's clear from biblical teachings we should forgive. It's hard to accept, but it's clear. I think we can also protect ourselves from harm. In this case, I don't believe my wife was having an active affair. I have no guarantee but her word (and look how that went last time she gave it to me!). She says she won't do it again. I'm willing to forgive and move forward. But I do so at risk that she can hurt me again. She slapped me, and I've offered her the other check. I'm hoping she loves me enough not to slap it too. If she does, I'm out of cheeks, so she can move on to some other sap. I'll still lover her. But it will be from a distance. 

6. Changes in your beliefs after going through infidelity.

Free will sucks? Not really. But I'm a little more tainted on humanity. I had some rough stuff growing up. I have a hard time trusting people in general and my own wife. Who I loved and trusted betrayed me. The last person I thought would hurt me. It's like there is no place or no person safe in the world.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Interesting topic for discussion. I was always a believer in God but it was more of a shallow belief than something I held deeply. Then my exW committed infidelity and although I still believed in God I decided that he was just a caretaker type of deity and in reality didn't care about us as human beings. I figured that free will took the burden of our decisions and actions away from God. I eventually sank into a very bad place, did some very bad things. Until one day I realized that I couldn't sink any lower without going to jail or dying. So I started to think about getting help. Anyone who has thought about getting help realizes that thinking about it is all you really do....at first. I kept thinking and thinking and thinking but continued to pursue my self destructive path. Then one day I prayed to God. I didn't think much about it except that I felt foolish. But the next day I did it again. And then next day, and the next day....until one day I woke up and noticed I felt less hopeless. Not a lot but just a little. As it happens that was the day I saw a sign for a men's group meeting in a neighborhood church basement. I decided to go and found someone there who decided I was someone worth investing time and energy into. And it snowballed from there.

Now I realize that God is not just a caretaker. God is a teacher and a guide. But He doesn't do it in an obvious way. He gently nudges and whispers and puts answers in your path for you to see. But its our responsibility to open our eyes and accept His help. That's what free choice is all about.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

For me it was the work of the Holy Spirit that brought out the truth. I literally fought demons in my house and I really did not believe in them and frankly would never want to go through that experience again. Ironically, my sons and some in her family had the same experience during the same time I did in dealing with my wife. 

During the months of Feb through May I have never prayed as hard in my life nor experienced anything like I did ever in my life. I gave up on the M but I did not give up on my wife's soul.

I went to a pastor attended his church and he bought my wife's story hook line and sinker, lied about me and ruined my relationship with my wife's family.

I am not done with the church but I will never be under any pastor, I will never join a church. I will be a church goer but not a member.

I do believe my wife has been changed by God. But I am no fool and we shall see if she walks the walk.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I am personally not religious anymore, but I was raised in a very religious family (Protestant Christian). Two of my great grandfathers were ministers.

My family today has many serious issues stemming from infidelity incidents, primarily in both sets of grandparents. 

In fact, though I was once cheated on by a serious gf (almost fiance), the reason I first started reading on TAM was because of all this family s**t.

In my family, the religious requirement for forgiveness has basically been interpreted in a way that has produced MAJOR rugsweeping of every incident, hence the reason why not ONE of these issues has ever been properly faced and dealt with.

And the family bleeds from these wounds through resentments and anger that remain hidden below the surface and that sometimes come out in full force when other stressful situations arise.

There is always huge tension between my mother (product of my grandparents marriage) and my aunt (product of one of my grandmother's affairs) about care for my elderly grandparents and the facts that they decided right before my grandmother passed to leave all of their property and money to my aunt because my mom 'didn't need it' because my dad has had a successful career and my aunt and her son have had life long struggles with substance abuse. Its a big mess and I could go on forever.

Anyway, I just could never understand how religious doctrines were constantly cited by my family members to justify never dealing with any of this, or how my sister was pressured to get over her own H's affair because 'Jesus commands us to forgive'.

I actually started reading here to see if my family was typical in how they dealt with this crap.

Thankfully, I now understand how they have completely screwed up dealing with every issue.

I now know I was right for just immediately dropping my ex, despite being criticized for being unforgiving. Of course, now I'm just looked at as being 'lost' because I no longer believe.

Anyway, great topic.

Sorry for the long post.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

For me, my beliefs about human kindness, dignity and the golden rule have informed any issues as serious as infidelity in my marriage. I would consider these foundational in my life in general and basically religious.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> I am personally not religious anymore, but I was raised in a very religious family (Protestant Christian). Two of my great grandfathers were ministers.
> 
> My family today has many serious issues stemming from infidelity incidents, primarily in both sets of grandparents.
> 
> ...


I can relate to this view. I experienced similar things.

I admire those that draw closer to God during their time of need, but for some reason I went away from "church" and started feeling like I am less of a believer in organized religion. I do have deeply held beliefs and values. Just less sure of how religion (organized) benefits me.

It seems that in my story religion was a way to gloss over her bad choices, and make me accept them. My experience also taught me that many "religious" people do not have core values or integrity. 

No offense to church goers that do have virtue, integrity, or values. Many do. Maybe it is the trial of faith.

Thanks for the replys. TAM is a blessing regardless of your view on God.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> It seems we have had a several recent posts advocating strong religious themed messages.
> 
> Not to start a holy war, but I was wondering how religion played into your marriage for:
> 
> ...


I was brought up in a very very Christian household, my first boyfriend who would later become my first husband was only allowed to stay with me in my bed after we got engaged when i was 18 ( i wanted to have my bf stay over like all my mates were doing) and we were not allowed to move into together until after we were married. Tbh I think that was a major problem in our marriage before I cheated that we had never lived without our parents and really struggled with the new responsibilities plus we were incapable but that only really showed after we moved in together after the wedding 

After a year and I half of being married when I was really struggling I turned to my mother, the two bits of advice she gave me at this point were " you made your bed you have to lie in it" and "we don't do divorce in our family"

After I cheated and left my first hubby I expected to be cut out tbh and I felt I deserved it but slowly my parents especially my mother came round I think the birth of her grand kids helped but I know it's annoys her that me and hubby were not married when we had our first.

I don't follow religion any more and the one thing I am really passionate about is that I don't want my kids to be brought up religious even though my parents do try to force it sometimes


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

Acoa said:


> Interesting topic, I'm sure there will be a wide variety of viewpoints. I'm coming from the viewpoint of a Christian male who found out his wife had 2 'cyber affairs' with old friends from HS. These affairs included graphic sexual chats but no pictures. She realized what she did was wrong and had stopped these about six months prior to my discovery. These males live nearby, and although the possibility exists that things went physical, she adamantly denies that it did. The online stuff I read was enough to make me feel she betrayed her vow to me. She also lied to my face about it saying 'she would never do something like that to me'.
> 
> --------------------------
> wondering how religion played into your marriage for:
> ...


:iagree:


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

I think many churches, congregations and individuals are WAY off vis-a-vis Christian teachings, marrriage, diviorce and infidelity. Agree the message is that forgiveness is always required and that in fact we're commanded to "love" all sorts of people (including our enemies....literally). But the "love" in question is not spousal love, it is the more general love/compassion/concern we're to have for all of humanity - and the 'forgiveness' in question does NOT require preserving the marriage. It means that, ultimately, the BS must forgive the WS....e.g. not hate them for the rest of their lives.

religious conselors that seek to preserve the marriage as the #1 priority do a horrible disservice to the people they are meant to help.


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## Garm (Mar 11, 2013)

My wife had an affair recently. A couple of my family members repeatedly tell me that a big reason for her cheating is that she did not go to church as a child and her family is not religious. I do not buy this. My father attended church most of his life and he cheated on my mother several times.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Prior to her affair, I was drifting. My life has been a very hard one, but I still felt some degree of faith. We were married in a full catholic mass. Went through pre cana together. Months before, I was depressed. Prayed for strength, for love. My parents both abandoned me, one physically, the other emotionally. I moved out onto my own at 17. My wife has been the one person I gave my heart to, trusted with my fledgling sense of love. She destroyed that, utterly. If god is love, as the church says, he has no place in my heart. Forgiveness? I've been surrounded by takers my whole life, why should I now cut off my own skin to make a warm blanket for her? My life is about me now, my intellect and efforts poured entirely into selfish goals. If there ever was a god he is most certainly, to quote Mr Nietzsche, dead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

LMT - Denominations are a human creation and not God's. It really ticks me off when well meaning people brow beat folks like yourself with religion to kill the spirituality of people. I like the Wesley quadrilateral way of thinking about theology. This includes scripture, tradition, reason and experience. There are many narrow minded religious people, which can be just as detrimental to peoples faith as the ungodly, probably more. 

Do we have to forgive? Eventually yes, but that does not mean that we have to live with a lying cheating person. It just means that we have to release the animosity that would eventually do us harm. When they asked Jesus about divorce, he said (paraphrase) in a perfect world there would be no need for divorce. However, he realized that since the world does not contain perfect people that exceptions need to be made.

Many of the problems that we have in a marriage are because we made poor decisions in who we married to begin with (guilty as charged) and the other is after we get married to live up to the commitment that we make to each other. I do not believe that you should ever let someone abuse you (physically or verbally). I also don't believe that you tolerate cheating. We all make mistakes and if both parties are willing to work, most problems can be fixed. However, it does not matter how bad you want a marriage to work, it both parties are not committed, then you need to know when to fold'em.


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> 1. Preventing infidelity.


As a Christian, I believe in following the Bible as a guide to show me how I ought to live and deal with things in life. In regards to preventing infidelity, as outlined in the Scriptures, there are numerous passages. What I can think off the top of my head is 2 Timothy 2:22, "Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart." James 4:7-8, "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded." 1 John 2:16, "For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world."
Matthew 5:28, "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So, by following these passages and others, it will keep you for adultery. "But I have heard and seen Christians fall who have kept the Scriptures" you might say. I do not believe what-so-ever anywhere throughout all of time that a committed Christian who is truly following the Word of God, has faithful prayer time, is reading His Bible, going to church will ever just fall into adultery. It is God's Word that we hide in our heart, That we might not sin against Him (Psalm 119:11). I have heard it once said, "Dusty Bibles lead to dirty lives." Also I have head it said, "Either the Bible will keep you from sin or sin will keep you from the Bible."

A strong relationship with God through the reading of His Word, through prayer, by fellowshipping at church is the key to avoiding adultery. Notice that I did not mention anything about the couple's relationship together. For those Christians out there know that when the above mentioned is in check, than all other aspects of your life will under God's leading and your life will reflect that of a committed Christian who desires His will and not one's own will. When a committed Christian reads His Word, prays constantly, is going to church on a regular basis, than he or she is going to be doing these with his or her spouse on a regular basis.  In light of those who have been married in opposite belief systems, than you stay away yourself from adultery by being committed yourself. We serve God first, and than our spouse, and than our kids (if they are in the picture).



Lovemytruck said:


> 2. Coping with the betrayal.


The society we live in today is backwards from God's desire. Marriage has no meaning anymore, other than a means for a couple to date and live together. A lot of marriages skip the dating stage and just jump right into the marriage. People think that they will use marriage as a means to figure out the person they married. This is why betrayal comes, because one day a spouse wakes up and says, "This is not what I want anymore. I better high tale out of here." Marriage is about commitment, not about feelings!

Many of spouses when betrayed, result to divorce and it gets nasty as nasty can be. Kids are used as pawns and vengeance is on the lips of the betrayed. God said that vengeance is His and He will repay those who sin. Many Christians believe that if their spouse commits adultery, they are free to get a divorce. The Bible does allow divorce in a Christian marriage when adultery happens, yes this is true (Matthew 5:32), but God's heart is always for reconciliation and forgiveness! This always overlooked! Yes, God permits divorce for one reason..."because of the hardness of your hearts" (Matthew 19:8). God knows that men have a tough time looking at their spouse again after adultery is introduced into the marriage, so God permits divorce to happen, but God's heart is always about forgiveness and reconciliation. How many times? Jesus said we ought to forgive man's sins against us 7 x 70 (Matthew 18:22). And sometimes people hold that number in mind, but the point Jesus was making that we always ought to forgive men when they do us wrong. "But the spouse keeps having affair after affair" you say. And that is really a tough place to be and it so sadly happens so much today. God would have it for someone to trust in Him with all of their heart and not to lean on one's own understanding. But, to have one's self to acknowledge Him as God, Savior, Leader, Guide, Teacher...so that God will direct our path the way that is healing, forgiving, and purposeful. When a spouse has been betrayed, he or she ultimately answers to God for his or her actions. If my spouse cheats on me, the sin is between her and God. It is my job to forgive and this outlined all through the entire Bible. We forgive others, because God Himself forgives us. We are not to hold trespasses of others against us, against them.

My answers are not inclusive for the road to healing. In addition to the above stated passages of Scriptures, I highly advise seeing a marriage counselor or pastor at the church for further guidance in this area. It will also do someone good to have a close friend that can encourage and help the betrayed get through the difficulty.



Lovemytruck said:


> 3. Coping with guilt.


I believe that God is the creator of the guilt complex. Our society tries to excuse this as being something our minds conjured up, in an effort to try and rid ourselves of it. There are only a few logical avenues to take in regards to guilt...

1) Listen to that still small voice and take action. Action is done by repenting of the sin which caused that guilt to come about. The word "repent" means to turn from or in other words, to do a 180 degree in the opposite direction you are going. So, in regards to adultery, repenting means to stop committing adultery!

2) Seek out forgiveness with those you have wronged. I once had a friend come up to me (with tears in his eyes) and he said that he had an affair with his wife. I encouraged him to pray first and than to confront his wife, with the Lord's leading and His words on his lips. It was only when my friend confronted his wife, that the guilt was uplifted from him and him and his wife were reconciled to each other.

3) You can harden your heart and ignore this guilt. Pretend that it's not there. This is living your life as a lie. Guilt is there for a reason and it is one of the common things both Christians and non-Christians share in this world alike. Hear what the Bible says about this area...Hebrews 3:7-8, "Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: 'Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts..." 1 Timothy 4:2 talks about one's conscience being seared with a hot iron, which means that one can no longer distinguish right from wrong and lives a life of self desires and self indulging. Guilt is there for a reason!



Lovemytruck said:


> 4. Choosing to R or D.


I covered this topic in one of my other responses above.



Lovemytruck said:


> 5. Views on forgiveness.


I covered this topic in one of my other responses above.



Lovemytruck said:


> 6. Changes in your beliefs after going through infidelity.


I don't believe in the means justifies the end. Meaning, that because something bad has happened against you (i.e. being betrayed), this should not justify your actions to leave God or your beliefs. In fact, all the more to draw closer to God amidst a catastrophic event in your life. God gets the bad wrap for all our troubles and sorrows. God is not a magic genie that we can summons any time we want. He does not bow down to us. It is us that needs to humbly submit and reverence Him. Prayer is not giving orders, but reporting for duty. We pray, "Lord, how would you like me to handle this situation I am in (or going through)?" "Lord, give me a heart of patience, understanding, healing, joy, peace, comfort."

God has created this wonderful thing called "freewill." Free will allows us to choose our own destiny and path. God presents before all men a choice that must be made. We either choose Him as the means to live our lives or we reject Him and live our lives by how we please. God does not force anyone to choose Him, because He has given us freewill. God does not force anyone to love Him...we have freewill. If there is no freewill, than there is no choice. If God dictated how everyone's life will be planned out, than we are like robots, being controlled.

Because of our freewill, we are allowed to determine the choices we make in life...whether it be for good or evil. No one was ever forced into adultery! No one was ever forced into murdering another against their own freewill. Many of Christians have died in other parts of the world (and still dying in mass numbers), because they refuse to deny God when a gun is pointing at their forehead. Its an interesting that people are so angry with God and those who follow Him, that they have murder in their hearts and are killing scores of Christians every year. Please like Sudan and other parts of Africa, places in the Philippians, China, Iran, Iraq, and so on.

The point I am making is, our beliefs ought not to change, just because our circumstances change. Psalm 89:28, "My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him." Do not blame God for man's mistakes! You don't have to let infidelity define you or change you for the worse. Allow it to make you stronger and wiser...to remain steadfast in your relationship with God. God calls believers to "cast all of our cares upon Him, because He cares for us" (1 Peter 5:7). Philippians 4:6-7, "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

For all of those who are not Christians, I leave you with this...

Jesus says in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Deuteronomy 31:19, "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live."


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I am in all practicalities an atheist. I was brought up as one, so I don't know God in any church kind of sense. Or any organised religion sense. I don't have any understanding of religion at all really, and on top of that England is not a religious country on the whole. So I don't really have friends that are religious either. However, I have always felt that religion is as natural to humans as sex and food and shelter....basic instincts. I have had a few good arguments/discussions stating so also. 

And even at the bare minimum, it is a comforting thing in one's life, as well as a good moral code to lead your self by.

Regardless, I have still, even in the complete absence of religion, lived by my moral code. Which is better than a lot of religious folk out there I believe. I think even without religion I still have a sense of self, of what I am happy with, that I can look myself in the mirror and be happy with what I see, that all things will come right in the end (I lived by this philosophy for a long time when I had less complicated problems and it saw me through many a tough time in my young adulthood). 

I do wish I had a religion, because I think it fills a gap, I think it fulfills a need in all of us. However, I don't have it. 

I know forgiveness well though, on the whole. I think forgiveness is completely linked to understanding, and it is the understanding that no person who can wreak havoc upon another can be a happy person, a well rounded person. I feel sorry for that person with such crap in their soul. That is what makes for easy forgiveness...easy in a deep sense of the word (but some crimes are not so easy to forgive). People who are fu*ked up do fu*ked up things. Fu*ked up people are not happy or well adjusted folk. And they are instrumental in their own unhappiness. And so the karma bus comes around.

In other ways, atheism can be seen as a good thing. A lot of people put some bad choices, judgements, actions, down to religion. I think the personality is what makes the person. The personality can be improved by 'God', or warped by 'God'. 

I am not sure I would have dealt with my ass of a man any better had I had God in my life. Or got over it better. Maybe it would have given me some comfort. That all things are given to us for a reason. But I have lived by this 'reasoning' even without God.

I have certainly embraced that 'sh*t happens and we are given our lessons to learn', God or no God. My education has been invaluable, and I don't think I would swap the pain for the education I received.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I wouldn't have received my education without the internet though. And with special thanks to CWI! So, without those things, where would I be now? Who knows!


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I was brought up a Catholic although stopped going to church at about age 16. 

Since then I have lost my faith in God although kept my faith that Jesus was just about the best bloke that ever lived and have tried to live my life by his teachings.

Given this, I have a suspicion of organised religion. One thing I do notice is the amount of remarkably poor advice given by pastors and spiritual community leaders. Their priority seems to be to keep the peace in the "community" above all things and rug sweeping is the order of the day.

It is something I tend to look out for in posts as, if you see a church mentioned there tends to be trouble in the offing.

Either way, my beliefs have underpinned my actions as they do in all of my life. Not to say I don't fail, because I do.

It is with some irony therefore that my beliefs led me to divorce my wife as I felt our marriage was a sham. The vows had been broken by her and therefore there was no marriage. 

It's a really interesting subject.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks my friends!

This was a very insightful thread for me to read. It actually is the only thread I have started.

My position in life is no longer dealing with a bad marriage, cheating, or divorce. Survived a 23 year first marriage, wife having a PA a little over a year, wife had a seperate EA with my former best friend, several d-days, 8 months false R/limbo/tt, and finally a D. I moved on to dating, and re-married last October.

The whole thing has left me scratching my head. A little too nice. Too little "alpha." Too trusting. Too reliable. Blamed for the cheating. Same story we all read here day in, day out.

The religion issues were a part of the experience. I find myself not hating religion, but definitely not seeking it. I don't feel less spiritual, but maybe more doubtful of the organized religion culture.

It is good to see the different views to help me move forward in re-defining my future. There is something powerful in listening to my peers when considering beliefs, values, and coping with the changes that a betrayal causes.

THANK YOU ALL!


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

Well, in Christianity (God, Jesus), God never lets anyone down. He has never failed. He is perfect! "But why did He let this happen to me" or "Why did He let so and so die?" We often ask these questions, looking to God to blame for not being there when we needed Him the most. Although, God is always there, He does not always intervene. God is not a magical genuine that we can summons to our every beckon call. It is not God who answers to us, the creation. God is no one's puppet!

A "religious" wife might have let you down, the church might have let you down, fellow friends might have let you down, family members might have let you down, but God never lets anyone down. There are many of cruel acts that have all been done under the umbrella of "God" and we attribute what man has done under this umbrella as coming from God directly. Not so. God is no man's debtor and He is not to blame for the atrocities that befall us.

Man has freewill to do with as he or she chooses and pleases. We can use that freewill to rob, kill, destroy, take advantage, divorce, hate, etc. or we can use that freewill to do good and for God's purpose. If God always intervened into the affairs of man, it really would not be much of a freewill now, would it...we would just be controlled robots being forced to God's will and desires.

Unfortunately, bad stuff happens to good people...rain comes down on the just and unjust and good things happen to the just and unjust alike. One thing I have always been amazed about that whenever someone is a victim of whatever circumstances (i.e. mass shootings, World Trade Center, etc.), it is always said of the victims that they were the nicest person you would have ever known. You mean to tell me that every single person that died in the World Trade Center or by any other mass shooting sprees were not evil people? Of course, when being interviewed for TV or a newspaper, it just wouldn't sound good to speak evil of a person in passing, so there is nothing but praise to be bestowed on a person.

We are all open to man's attacks through verbal, emotional, physical, financial, etc. God is not to blame for man's decision with how he or she wants to use his freewill to exercise. However, if we truly choose to trust and follow God with all of our heart, soul, and mind, we will not be disappointed. I am not talking about following a man, idea, or a church, but a true and living God who created you...and He created you for a specific plan and purpose. I don't care what you have done and who you have done it to...we all have some type of failure and baggage in our life and God gladly accepts us anyways and He loves us and desires to be close to us, to give us a living hope and a future hope when we pass on to the next life "if" we choose to put our trust and faith in Him. We have freewill to choose Him and we have freewill to reject Him. We all will choose one or the other, not by force, not like a robot, but by our own freewill.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I do wonder where God is an all of this; from the relatively trivial, where God allows the innocent to be betrayed to the firefighters killed just today, to the innocent children harmed and taken from us to the hundreds of thousands hurt and killed in the tsunami.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. 

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

Bad stuff happens to good people...that is the bottom line. 99% of all mankind blames God when bad stuff happens to good people (i.e. such as the 19 fire fighters that lost their life today in Arizona). We ask questions today, "Why did God allow this to happen?" We hope that God would just cease the wind and fire from spreading and thus sparing the firefighter's lives. In fact, throughout my entire life, I have heard it the most in regards to elderly people. Many people I have decided to not believe in God because their loving grandparent passed away. The mortality rate is still 1:1. 1 out of 1 persons will die...it is a guarantee. We cannot cheat death!

And if God was to intervene with everyone's love ones, than no one would be dead and our earth would be over crowded throughout the ages of people. And what about the murderers? How does God intervene from these individuals from exercising their freewill to kill people? Is God suppose to snuff them out? Because I guarantee you that a lot of murderers still have love ones that would miss them (not to mention war). And there are the scores of terrorists who kill all in the name of allah, because they feel as though they are doing allah's bidding and thus will receive 70 virgins in the next life.

I do not know or understand why God chooses to remain silent in some circumstances, and in others He chooses to make Himself known. I am not God and I can't even pretend to know why God does what He does, when He does or does not do it. A finite mind cannot understand an infinite God. Our finite beings think that we can do a better job than God. We think we know more than the God who breathe life into us and gave us knowledge.

God is all omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient and it is His choice how He exercises His ability to intervene or not to intervene. God is no one's debtor! Have you ever asked yourself this one question, "Why does God owe you anything?" We cry out to God for help when there is a school shooting, but it fascinates me that we have also kicked God out of our schools. Or how I once heard it said, "Dear God, why do you allow so much violence in schools?" God replies, "Because I am not allowed in schools." And the same goes for the rest of life...we kick God out of the courtrooms, out of business, out of the movies (except to take His name in vain), and we wonder why it seems as though God has turned His back on America? We say, "In God We Trust" on our money (which I am sure will soon be taken off), but yet we do not trust God as a nation...because we have evolved to a state that we do not need Him anymore. We say, "God, stop telling me what to do or how I am to live my life. I do not need you." And we wonder why God does not come to our aid when tragedy befalls us.

And I do believe in a force called evil or otherwise known as satan. satan himself is called "the prince of the power of the air." I can't help but to think that the tragedy that has happened in Arizona today was satan's bidding, as he is in control of the air or if you will, the weather. So if it was satan's hand upon the fires and winds in Arizona, I guarantee you that no one will look to him to blame, but rather throw all blame on God.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

forevermemorable said:


> I guarantee you that no one will look to him to blame, but rather throw all blame on God.



I don't believe this statement to be true. Other than possibly some of the relatives of the deceased, I think that most people will "question" God and his motives yet not blame him in these situations (just most mistake that questioning for actual blame).


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

I was brought up as a follower of The Dharma (or a Buddhist as we are referred to by everyone else). I don't think I could ever be described as a 'devout Buddhist' but it has coloured my thinking. I'm no Buddhist scholar of any sort, but I thought I'd share a few quotes for a different perspective.

A quick word on Karma:
It has entered the Western lexicon in terms such as 'the karma bus', but if you were to go all in with the concept it would mean you accept re-birth and reincarnation. I'm undecided. What I do take from the concept of karma, which is very relevant to this board is:

*You are permanently accountable for your conscious decisions and choices.* There is no wiggle room. If you know what you are doing is wrong there's no hiding from that fact. You give yourself permission to cheat. Infidelity starts with letting yourself down and lying to yourself.



> “Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
> 
> 
> > No religion is better than another, this kind of thinking works for me. We do not have commandments, we have behaviour we are advised to avoid. And then choose to.
> ...


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

And here comes the Holy War? Lol! Probably a discussion for a different board.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> And here comes the Holy War? Lol! Probably a discussion for a different board.


Not at all mate . Live and let live.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

azteca1986 said:


> Not at all mate . Live and let live.


Agreed! I was hesitant to start this thread because I really didn't want to get into a debate over the teachings, or the concepts of who or what God is.

Just wonding about how religion helped or hurt in the coping process.

Thanks for a different view on than others have posted. I really enjoy learning about different religions, but conflict is not my intent.

The thing that made me think about it was the strong views on what forgiveness means to different posters. It is probably one of the key points I had to resolve in my mind prior to deciding to D my exWW.

Hope we all find the things we seek. Peace and happiness probably top the list for many on TAM. Have a great day.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> *Hope we all find the things we seek.* Peace and happiness probably top the list for many on TAM. Have a great day.


That's the most important thing. I hope my post might help someone in a difficult time. But people can take it or leave it. The world still spins.

Have a great day too


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm not a member of any religion. I am spiritual. I believe in God, whatever you want to call him. I follow Christianity more closely than any other religion, and I have studied many over the years. Jesus was just the easiset to understand, for my limited mind. 

I had let my closeness with God loosen over the years. I thought I was OK... After our DDay, I was baptized, something I never before believed in but after studying it I thought it a useful ritual in my life at the time. After DDay2, I chose to be baptized by my wife in a river last summer. That, too, was invigorating on a spiritual level. Interesting path... 

I believe in God, and that you have to think a LOT bigger than a church to "get it." There are too many people with agendas and hypocrisy in churches for me to trust any organization. Hey, we're supposed to trust our government? And charities? And Tammy Faye Baker? There are just oo many people wrapped in plastic for me to get on board with any of them. 

That said, i've read the Bible cover to cover, tried to study the Koran, and many other religions in my life. I have a close relationship to God. I'm a sinner, and I never before believed in the word "sin", as these are choices we can make -- who's to say what's sin? Well, it's pretty clear. 

We live in a New Testament world, and there are many who mix up the Old and New Testaments to make their points and prove that the Bible contradicts itself. If you study the story of Jesus, there's no reason to go to the OT in order to get your current "instructions for life." It's all there in the new testament. You can tell me about how in about AD900 a group of men got together and decided what scriptures were supposed to be in the Bible, but I get something out of that "man made" book every day of my life. 

It's a very personal journey, and no one journey is better than another. That's left up for Jesus to decide. I'm glad it's not my job!!

After DDay and DDay 2, we both realized how far we had let our spirituality slide.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

I know this is highly controversial but I am only speaking for myself...Could never be audacious to interpret for anyone else. I read and re-read the Bible in reference to marriage, divorce, reconciliation and marriage behavior and this is how I have chosen to live my life because of what I read: God says no adulterer will enter the kingdom of heaven. God says that any man who divorces his wife commits adultery and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery (doesn't it sound like wives are in the clear? Not so though). Although He allowed Moses to grant divorce because of the hardness of men's hearts, He expects the "till death do us part" to continue for the person who expects to see Him one day. So I know I can either stay in the marriage and deal with it, allow God to move OR I can get a divorce and wait for my ex-husband to die before I can be courted again. If my husband had married OW, it would be on him, not me. Celibacy was what He would have called me to. My happiness is not sex-based.


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

Calibre12 said:


> what I read: God says no adulterer will enter the kingdom of heaven.


Galatians 5:19-21, "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Look at this list, can anyone identify with "hatred, jealousy, selfish ambitions?" Well, let me be the first to tell you all, that I have experienced all of these three. So, does that mean I will not go to heaven because of this? Lets go back to Galatians 5:18, "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." What law is this speaking of? God's law! Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." So, everyone living in the past and present have broken God's law in one way or another to whatever degree. The penalty is death and separation from God for eternity. However, the second half of Romans 6:23 speaks about a gift of eternal life in heaven. What gift? The gift that Jesus died on the cross for all of man's breaking of God's law. Jesus took man's place of death and separation from God and He allowed us access to God. But, in order to have this access, we must believe and put our trust and faith in Jesus and what He did on the cross. Not only that, we have to stop living a sinful life that is pleasing to us and live for God's plan and purpose for our life. Does this mean that you will not slip up and sin down the line...of course you will, but you will be forgiven. Does this mean that because we are forgiven, we are free to sin all we want? Of course not, how if we are free to sin, still live in it?

So, for those who enjoy sinning and doing whatever your heart's desire is, you are under the law and will not enter the kingdom of heaven. For those who put their trust and faith in Jesus, you can be guaranteed a place in heaven when you die. Do you know where you will go when you die, with absolute certainty? I promise beyond a shadow of a doubt that all those who put their trust and faith in Jesus, they know for certainty where they will go when they breathe their last breathe, because it will be pressed upon your heart.

God forgives all sin! Even the adulterous ones! But, those who have committed adultery, who are committing adultery, and who will commit adultery must put their trust and faith in Jesus, in order to be forgiven and saved.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

It requires one absolutely most important first step though: Repentance - of the genuine kind (remorse) birthed out of a sorrowful recognition of the sin and how it has affected one's life and the lives of others, before the step of forgiveness can occur.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> It seems we have had a several recent posts advocating strong religious themed messages.
> 
> Not to start a holy war, but I was wondering how religion played into your marriage for:
> 
> ...


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

When I had my DDay, I was absolutely crushed inside. I was raised to be religious by my mother, my dad not so much.

When I asked how this could be happening to me, I don't think I was asking the right question. I should have been asking, what is your plan for me God?

My prayer brothers and good friends were my support group. They helped carry me when I was so down. I went to Tennessee for some outdoor living just to cope with my friend and I bought a beautiful pair of cowboy boots. It was time to 'Cowboy Up' and face what was in my path. My EX thought I was crazy and just buying things, but they were for me. They reminded me of my responsibilities of what a dad needed to be and also how to overcome great difficulty. I grew up with John Wayne and Clint Eastwood.

I tuned to the bible for my answers. The answers are all there. 'A man should love his wife like Christ loved the church'... Ok.

'If the non believer wants to walk, let them walk'... Ok.

Did the Bible have the answers on the best chances I would have on saving my marriage and what I should do? Not that I found

What it did have were the answers for me. I was reminded of who I was really meant to be. We cannot help the circumstances of our lives, we can only help how we react to them.

I know ScorchedEarth just asked the question: How can a loving God allow these bad things to happen?

The answer for me is: He allowed these bad things to happen to me so that I would always know how wonderful and precious my life really is. With all the pain and heartache and sorrow that I have gone through, I am a far better man for it. I really do try to live every day to it's fullest and I am so much closer with my kids now as we went through this mess together. I have shown my sons how strong they can be and I did it with love.

I falter and fail, but I keep on trying. I have become a good example for my sons. I will teach them what it really means to be good men when they get older and they will have lots of examples on how to deal with adversity, some good, some bad.


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