# Love story from Europe - grab a coffee...



## Sanderson

Hi all

I have been considering doing this for few years but now the situation forced me to get my point of view out.
Little background info - Me and my wife are both europeans but different nationality and language.
I am 40 and she is 36 yrs old. We have two small kids.

We first met in the UK where we both worked as foreigners for the same company. As I was there liitle bit longer that her so I had slightly higher position and she was a newbie. Our first encounter was when I was assigned to check her work. At that day she seemed stressed with the workload and complaining that the equipment did not work properly. She was quite cute and seemed despered so I offer her my help. From that day on I did everything I could so she could keep the job. She seemed glad that I was supporting her and started to like me. In few weeks she left her boyfriend and started to see me. Very soon we lived together.

During this period if someone had asked me what seemed odd on her I would say that she was in permanent unsatisfied state. When she came to UK she was in big debt which she blamed the government for. I loaned her some money to get rid of it sooner. I was forced to listen how her country let her down and that she had no intention to go back. Then she was complaining about her current job. I worked hard so she could keep it and also wrote her step by step guide on how to get promoted there (which was easy back then) and have the work easier. She did not follow it and instead kept on complaining. Eventually she changed the job and things went calmer for a year or so. 

Then she started to complain about the place/town we worked at. She wanted out. I was little afraid to move out as I was making good money there and my ultimate goal was to go back to my country and buy a flat there.
She agreed with that and even said that she never want to go back to her country which let her down. She also said that she was educated and that on different place she would get much better paid job. The issue is that she did not do any action towards that goal - she was just talking about it. Looking back I believe that she knew I will help her again and that all she needed was to keep complaining till I cannot listen to it anymore and do something.

And I did.

I found a nice place on south of England where I found a job in factory. We moved there (as she wished) and I started to work as a saw operator. It was a hard job, I had my hand full of scars and had to be careful so I won´t loose my fingers on the saw. But I did it, I did it for her.
I wanted her to be happy. She was not able to find a job immediately (which is understandable) and was crying. I suffered because of this. In two weeks she got a job as a waitress in a nearby hotel. Things got calm again for few months. Then she started to dislike the work and searched for another job. She found it and started to work as a waitress in smaller hotel. 

At that time I realised that her words about getting a much better paid job somewhere else would not become reality. I never mentioned it to her back then. Instead of it I started to work on my carrier as one of us had to have a good job so later we would be able to afford an appartment in my country. From a saw man I become first a cnc operator, then a cnc programmer and then a process engineer. This took me about two years. It was not easy, I had to learn many things very quickly. But I did it because I wanted family with that woman and we needed a place to stay.

After two years staying in south of England I finally conviced her to have a baby with me (she was 33 and saying that she still has time). Looking back I don´t understand why that I had to basically beg her. We were together 5 yrs already and loved each other. I thought it was the perfect time and knew that if I won´t push something she will not do anything.

The daughter came and our lives got more difficult (but in better way). Very soon she was able to have a part time job in the evenings as a waitress and I used to stay with daughter in the evenings after work. After the birth my wife became completely cold towards me up to today. But more about it later. What was worse for me was the fact that she started to blame me for everything (not the country, not the job, not the equipment). Basically whatever happened was my fault.

When the daughter was one year and even though my wife stopped to show any feelings towards me I asked her to have a second child so the daughter had someone to play with. It was tough but eventually she agreed and she got pregnant again. 

This was the time to leave the UK and go back to my country to settle down. She asked me to first go to her country to give a birth to our son there and then move to my country. She said we would stay with at her parents´ place for a while. I was little concerned about it as for years I was listening her stories about her father who as she put it "hurt her a lot". But I trusted her judgement and agreed with moving there for a while and did everything in the way that this would happen.

Her parents had a country house with a garden. And a small, totaly untrained dog. Once we moved in with my little innocent daughter I noticed that the dog shows agressive behaviour not just to us but also to the little one. I pointed this out to my wife but she was so overwhelmed with the fact she is with parents that she belittle my worry completely and I knew I was alone on this. My school friend was almost killed in 80´s by the family dog so I did not underrestimate the situation. The dog started to threaten my kid more and more vividly (even my brother in law and his girlfriend noticed that). Finally I conviced my wife to talk about it with parents and she did. But since the dog was everything for them, they denied it and said that the dog does not like us because of me. My wife believed that - this was a huge pain in my heart. I was to blame for this, even this was my fault...

Soon after that a small family dinner took place. My daughter started to walk around the table and dog started to threaten. My wife and her paretns did not pay attention. As she came about 2 feet from him, the dog shown his teeth. My brother in law noticed it as well. I did not hesistate. I believed my daughter is in danger. I jumped out and hit the dog with my palm away of my child. Everyone stayed in shock (except for brother in law), in shock as why did I dare to touch their fluffy baby. My wife thought I got crazy. Her parents thought that I just hated their dog. (Side note - I myself had two dogs in my life and I very much loved them and missed them up to today).

Since this incident I knew we cannot stay there any much longer. Her father started to make scenes, shouted at us during the night that we should get lost from there, etc. He shouted at my pregnant wife who had just two weeks before the birth. We had no place to go in my country. I had no job there yet. I desperadly was searching for place to stay in my country during the night online so we can leave. He, as a part of his revenge, turned of the wifi in the evenings. It was bad. I was responsible for 4 people and had to do something quickly. One of the worst periods of my life.

Luckily I found us rent in my country and one month after the birth of my son we escaped. My wife said she did not want to see her father ever again. She said that he did not change. I believed her.

We moved to one bedroom flat in a city and I started to look for a job. This time it was harder than in England. I found something but had to leave after 3 months as I could not work in such conditions (call center AT&T). I left my job and in two weeks the landlord told me we have to move out as he is selling the flat. 

I hit my bottom. 

I had no idea what to do. I was responsible for four people and had no job or place to stay. My wife had been cold to me 2 years already. I asked my parents if they can help me and sell us their flat which they left to my young brother. I was ready to pay him off. They said no to me and my family. I was on my own.

Then I remembered something from a training I received 12 ago. It was - "Keep pushing". I did it and from the morning to evening I was searching for flats and jobs. Many refusals, many dissapointments I but kept on. 

It took three months but I found a flat which we could afford to buy in my home town. My wife agreed and we moved.

New job offer also appeared - a middle management position in a field I did not know much about. It was the only offer I had so during the interview I successfully pretended that I know the subject and since they hired me I am learning every day to be on the right level of expertise. 
The management even did not notice that I have just an elementary school education. My colleagues are all university graduates...

To cover this was not easy but as a father and husband I am responsible for my family well-being so I am not complaining. I have to commute 1,5 hrs both ways and work 9-10 hrs daily. In the evenings I can barely play with kids but I am trying. On the other hand, at weekends I get my sleep and we go for a family trip or walk. My wife is on maternity support (which I managed for her in my country) and still will be for about two years.

I found her a language teacher who gives her skype lessons of my language every week. I also got in touch with my family so she can learn quicker. When she learns, I am with the kids. I want to give her the support in foreign country I never had.

Congratulations, now you know the basic background of my issue.

Now to the point, shall we?

I mentioned that after the birth of our daughter the wife became totally cold to me. What did I mean? In better days - when I come from work she tells me what she cooked and talks about kids. Then she is with them till the evening or if they sleep she learns. I am not in her schedule. She comes to me only when she needs something. For sex I have to beg or negotiate. This is very hard for a faithful man who find his wife attractive as much as the first day. I also train twice per week to be attractive for her but it goes nowhere. My basic needs are being ignored. This was an example of a good day. In the bad day she starts to reproach me with old things. I explain my position on them, she doesn´t answer and change the topic. Yet, in a week time she brings them back to the table and hit me with a bunch of ten new accusations within one minute on top of that. I don´t even have time to defend myself. I am to be blamed for everything in her life. 

Her accusations become overwhelming to me. Some of them are historical (what I did in the past) and some even what I will do in the future.

To give you example of the historical accusation which I learned this week: "In 2012 you told me that you don´t believe a human can have spirit, explain!"

To give you example of the accusation of my future actions: "You will never let me travel with my kids to my home country!"

I must admit I do not remember everything I said in 2012 and surely I do not know what I will think in one year about traveling.

In order to fix these accusations I developed a system - I wrote an action plan where she can write one problem she has with me, offer solution and if it is ok with me, make a plan where we can monitor the progress. Because I really want her to be happy and as a male cannot handle so many problems at once. Just one by one. For me to be motivated even more to fix her issues I told her that she could write one item in the list each time we have sex. It might be selfish from me but since I do not get any love or attention from her I thought it is a good idea to feel some intimacy with her again. At the end of the day I am a healthy man. It is very hard to focus on something when you are absolutely sexually and emotinally starved.

She said that I am a perv that I want sex each time I want to fix some of her problem. But from my point I have been fixing her issues from the day one. I don´t deserve to get some love back?

Out of 100 problems she has with me - the biggest one is that she wants to go for a week (that´s the beginning, as I know her she will want more and more) to see her parents with kids alone. Don´t get my wrong, even after that incident and after she said she does not want to go back we went there many times already. Each time I have a holiday we go there, also she went there twice last year on her own and I stayed with the kids.

But I am not comfortable to let her go there with kids. Things changed there. Now her parents have even a second dog, much bigger one - a labrador. They built a fence but already twice (when we were there) the dog was not locked and encounter with child on his own took place. Luckily in both occassions me or my wife got there in time and caught the dog or the child. The big dog is untrained as well. With her parents´approach and untrained dogs I am not ok with them to go there without me. Our babies are too small and my wife cannot watch them constantly. They also have a hatch to the basement which is 7 feet deep and many times they leave it opened. My kid could fall down on concrete and hurt herself badly. Her parents are remiss - her father even did not want to use child seats for my kids in the car. 

My wife thinks that I hate her country and parents. But I am really just afraid my kids to be in such enviroment without my supervision. They are small and defenceless. I am their father, I have to protect them as much as I can. It is my job. My wife thinks I am crazy. But when I talked to another fathers (three guys) they all told me the same thing - they wouldn´t want their kids to be there. One of them made a point which got stuck in my head since then - 1) untrained dogs 2) remiss owner 3) small kid = odds you don´t want to take.

And here we are - my wife hates me for this. She makes my life a hell. Few days ago when I apologised for many wrong doings she believed I did to her I was hoping that now she shows me some love. But no. She came up with this again - she hates me for it. For my love and care for our kids.

Her parents are always welcomed here (even after what happened), we travel there during all of my holidays... But it is not good enough. She tells me that I don´t respect her. But does she respect that I don´t want my kids to be hurt? That I don´t want to be without them for a week?

Meantime I am a man who is approached only when he has to fix something, buy something or do something. And I am to blame for everything.

I am dreaming about a wife who would love me, cuddle up to me (without wanting something) and who would sleep with me.

Please let me know your thoughts on my points of view. Maybe I am doing something seriously wrong and my wife deserves someone better.


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## Mr The Other

Your wife is genuinely suffering. This is because there are obstacles in her life, as there are in everyone's life. The difference is that she feels someone else is responsible for them, and feels let down. You are inclined to take responsibility. 

This made you very compatible, she expected someone else to sort things out for her and you saw yourself fitting that role well. Romance blossomed. 

She is not a happy person, and does not feel empowered. So, she is like a disgruntled supporter at a football match, she fulfills her role be grumbling and complaing, but feels that the people on the pitch are letting her down. You want someone who will be on the pitch alongside you. From that perspective, she is not happy and that is because you have failed to make her happy, so you are a cruel man. She is being generous in tolorating you. It is not uncommon.

Your wife is genuinely suffering. And, will continue to do so if you travel to her home country. She is cold towwards you, as she feels you have let her down as you are responsible for her happiness. Men tend to want fixes, woman patience. But, some times (not always) problems are easily fixable and action really is the right course, i.e. taking responsibility for what you can change.

Here is why you are being stupid. You are not responsible for someone else's happiness. You can help them, but that is all. You are in danger of not taking responsibility for your own happiness as she fails to do do. If you think she has to be happy before you can be happy, you are making the same mistake she does.

PS: I could be talking nonsense. Just my first impression. Wiser people will come and ask questions.


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## Mr The Other

I am glad you like the post, Sanderson. But, I must be wrong in places?

"I mentioned that after the birth of our daughter the wife became totally cold to me. What did I mean? In better days - when I come from work she tells me what she cooked and talks about kids. Then she is with them till the evening or if they sleep she learns. I am not in her schedule. She comes to me only when she needs something. For sex I have to beg or negotiate. This is very hard for a faithful man who find his wife attractive as much as the first day. I also train twice per week to be attractive for her but it goes nowhere. My basic needs are being ignored. This was an example of a good day. In the bad day she starts to reproach me with old things. I explain my position on them, she doesn´t answer and change the topic. Yet, in a week time she brings them back to the table and hit me with a bunch of ten new accusations within one minute on top of that. I don´t even have time to defend myself. I am to be blamed for everything in her life. "

This suggests, that she "forgives" you when she is happy, but resents you when she is not happy as that is your responsibility. As it is never not your responsibility, it makes sense to remember when you "failed her".


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## JustTheWife

I think you both have built up a lot of resentment toward each other. You've been through a lot of difficult times, including her moving to your country where she probably feels like an outsider. Not knowing the language and probably not any trusting friends. And with children to take care of. Plus, and not to put her down, she seems like she's not naturally very resilient and blames others, for example, what you were saying about her when you first met. That means that she will find difficult things more more difficult that perhaps some other people will. And look at her big challenge.

And you have your own challenges. It must have been very scary for you taking care of a family without job and a secure place to live.

Very hard for you both.

So what do you do? You build up resentment toward each other for the situation. Sorry that i don't have an easy solution but think about what brought you together in the first place. Before all of these problems. And maybe try to see all that you've accomplished TOGETHER to build a life for yourselves and your kids. You've done very well with that.


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## TJW

Mr The Other said:


> From that perspective, she is not happy and that is because you have failed to make her happy, so you are a cruel man.


My take on this is that your wife is painting you with the same broad brush as her father, and I think her father was/is an abuser. Your wife needs professional help, if I'm right. She has believed a strong delusion which is very difficult to overcome without professional intervention. The delusion comes in as a coping mechanism of a child who is afraid of the person most responsible to protect her. There aren't too many people who can unravel this without a good, capable therapist.



OP said:


> She tells me that I don´t respect her.


No, sir, it is your wife who doesn't respect you. @Mr The Other nailed it. She wanted somebody to "fix" her.


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## Mr The Other

TJW said:


> My take on this is that your wife is painting you with the same broad brush as her father, and I think her father was/is an abuser. Your wife needs professional help, if I'm right. She has believed a strong delusion which is very difficult to overcome without professional intervention.


I assume that was to Sanderson?


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## TJW

Mr The Other said:


> I assume that was to Sanderson?


Yes ..... I should have made that more clear.


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## Laurentium

Yeah, you have got yourself involved with a mentally dysfunctional family.


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## MattMatt

@Sanderson, Yikes  You have found a very odd family.

What country do you live in? 

Is counselling available?


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## aine

Sorry you have all been through so much but I agree with the posters here that no-one can make your wife happy until she learns to make herself happy and deal with circumstances you are in.
Please sit her down and tell her that you have tried your best with no support from her. That you are done making her happy. She needs professional therapy to deal with her baggage from her past.
You will provide for the family but she now has to start stepping up to the plate and respecting you for what you do and she has to take responsibility for her own happiness and do something useful with her life. 
She was a grumbler and a complainer from day one according to your post. She blames her country, her lack of good job, you etc. 
She has a huge sense of entitlement, tell her this. Entitlement will get her nowhere, she needs to put out her finger and make her own life. You will be there but you will no longer listen to her complaints, you will from now on ask her to come up with a workable solution to her complaints. If for example she complains about you working long hours, tell her I can reduce hours and you receive less income for xyz. Once she starts complaining shut her down. She will be angry but let her be. Stand up for yourself, she will respect you more.
Tell her you are more than a paycheck and you have had enough.
I think you also need some therapy to realise that you are NOT responsible for her happiness. Once you realise that and start acting accordingly I guarantee things will change.


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## StarFires

I disagree with everyone. Your wife is a grumbler, and there is no amount of counseling to fix her. No being able to make her happy until she makes herself happy because she will never see that about herself. She is who she is, so you can either consider yourself stuck with her or get yourself away from her.

What she might be able to do is find a doctor to get her on medication. Constant grumblers are depressed people. She needs something for her depression. 

The only thing that can help you is to learn about her condition so you know that her indictments are no real reflection on you. They are just her depression speaking. She needs to grumble and complain, so you are the only person to grumble and complain to and the only person to grumble and complain about.

But this jumped out at me as not bseeming quite fair of you:


Sanderson said:


> Her accusations become overwhelming to me. Some of them are historical (what I did in the past) and some even what I will do in the future.
> 
> To give you example of the historical accusation which I learned this week: "In 2012 you told me that you don´t believe a human can have spirit, explain!"
> 
> To give you example of the accusation of my future actions: "You will never let me travel with my kids to my home country!"
> 
> I must admit I do not remember everything I said in 2012 and surely I do not know what I will think in one year about traveling.


The historical complaining is her condition talking. The future complaining is her condition talking. All of which is because her condition makes her need to complain. However, the future complaining is not without merit since you won't let her take the kids to her home country. You refuse her each time she asks. You strongly stated your opposition to the prospect and gave us two reasons for not allowing her to take them: One being that you don't trust they will be safe, and the other being that you will miss your children being gone for a week. Obviously, nobody knows what the future holds, but your wife has good reason to think and to complain that you will never allow her. And yet, you mock her saying it as just another one of her insane and overwhelming complaining just because you don't own a crystal ball. Do you often mock her like that?



Sanderson said:


> In order to fix these accusations I developed a system - I wrote an action plan where she can write one problem she has with me, offer solution and if it is ok with me, make a plan where we can monitor the progress. Because I really want her to be happy and as a male cannot handle so many problems at once. Just one by one. For me to be motivated even more to fix her issues I told her that she could write one item in the list each time we have sex. It might be selfish from me but since I do not get any love or attention from her I thought it is a good idea to feel some intimacy with her again. At the end of the day I am a healthy man. It is very hard to focus on something when you are absolutely sexually and emotinally starved.
> 
> She said that I am a perv that I want sex each time I want to fix some of her problem. But from my point I have been fixing her issues from the day one. I don´t deserve to get some love back?


I don't think it makes you a pervert, but you are blackmailing her for sex and explained it away as you deserve it. Not everything your wife does and says are okay, but not everything you want to do and say are okay either. Yes, you're starving, but essentially saying you will address your wife's concerns if you getting sex is part of working toward the solution is far from okay.



Sanderson said:


> Meantime I am a man who is approached only when he has to fix something, buy something or do something. And I am to blame for everything.
> 
> I am dreaming about a wife who would love me, cuddle up to me (without wanting something) and who would sleep with me.
> 
> Please let me know your thoughts on my points of view. Maybe I am doing something seriously wrong and my wife deserves someone better.


We wouldn't know if you're doing something wrong or if your wife deserves someone better. But unless she gets on medication, you will never know either. Once she's on meds, then counseling can help.

Am I correct to think your wife is from India?


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## MattMatt

StarFires said:


> I disagree with everyone. Your wife is a grumbler, and there is no amount of counseling to fix her. No being able to make her happy until she makes herself happy because she will never see that about herself. She is who she is, so you can either consider yourself stuck with her or get yourself away from her.
> 
> What she might be able to do is find a doctor to get her on medication. Constant grumblers are depressed people. She needs something for her depression.
> 
> The only thing that can help you is to learn about her condition so you know that her indictments are no real reflection on you. They are just her depression speaking. She needs to grumble and complain, so you are the only person to grumble and complain to and the only person to grumble and complain about.
> 
> But this jumped out at me as not bseeming quite fair of you:
> 
> 
> The historical complaining is her condition talking. The future complaining is her condition talking. All of which is because her condition makes her need to complain. However, the future complaining is not without merit since you won't let her take the kids to her home country. You refuse her each time she asks. You strongly stated your opposition to the prospect and gave us two reasons for not allowing her to take them: One being that you don't trust they will be safe, and the other being that you will miss your children being gone for a week. Obviously, nobody knows what the future holds, but your wife has good reason to think and to complain that you will never allow her. And yet, you mock her saying it as just another one of her insane and overwhelming complaining just because you don't own a crystal ball. Do you often mock her like that?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it makes you a pervert, but you are blackmailing her for sex and explained it away as you deserve it. Not everything your wife does and says are okay, but not everything you want to do and say are okay either. Yes, you're starving, but essentially saying you will address your wife's concerns if you getting sex is part of working toward the solution is far from okay.
> 
> 
> 
> We wouldn't know if you're doing something wrong or if your wife deserves someone better. But unless she gets on medication, you will never know either. Once she's on meds, then counseling can help.
> 
> Am I correct to think your wife is from India?


I recall that they are both from European countries, but different European countries, but that they met in the UK.


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