# Why stay in a sexless marriage?



## Playthang (Dec 3, 2012)

I've been reading through so many posts here that refer to one spouse or the other not wanting, needing or allowing sex.
I am curious as to why you stay. Is it money, kids, love or just not wanting to be alone? 
I genuinely feel for so many of the people that are dealing with the frustration and sadness.
But why not leave? I am not in such a relationship, but I'd like to believe that my happiness is important enough to know when to walk away.
Feeling loved & wanted is essential to me. Physical contact is a must (not always sexual) but just a rub or hand holding. A sign that he still loves me.
If your needs are not fulfilled, why stay?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nme360 (Nov 11, 2013)

Hey there! I am one of those that recently posted about my ALMOST sexless marriage. 
I stay because we have a one year old son together. My parents divorced when I was young and it deeply wounded me and my two brothers. 
Also, I feel as though maybe I am not doing enough. Maybe if I was kinder, maybe if I dressed up more often. Sometimes I feel like I'm the problem. I just don't know how to solve it. 
I am going to see a therapist today and will hopefully see if the problem is me or him. I am really not sure.

Just wanted to give my reasoning. It does suck to be in a relationship like this. 
Btw, I am a woman, so that just makes it worse (to me) because usually it's the woman denying the man. Not the man denying the woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Playthang said:


> Is it money, kids, love or just not wanting to be alone?


Yep.

Leaving sounds great. But what if leaving involves dissolving the business that's been in your family for generations? Or moving out of your 5BR house into a studio apartment? Or seeing your kids every other weekend?

And that's assuming that your spouse is honest enough to state that the desire is likely gone forever. Few are that honest. Most spouses who withhold sex come up with an endless stream of lame excuses that HD spouses are anxious to believe. It's much easier to believe that your spouse has yet another tough week at work than it is to believe that you just don't do it for them anymore.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

While it's not fair to characterize my marriage as sexless, it is a very pale reflection of what I had hoped for, so I think I can answer.

I had a girlfriend when I was young who was, for lack of a better word, a nymphomaniac. It was outstanding, the sex at least. But she was a flawed character in other more fundamental ways that would have bubbled to the surface in a long term marriage, and even the sex would have been an insufficient balm for our eventual troubles.

So now I am married to a woman of much higher character with much less sexual energy. Did I really lose so much in the deal? I thought so for a long time, but I'm coming around to the realization that every long term relationship is a significant compromise unless you're lucky enough to hit the trifecta at the dating track - which you can spend your entire life trying, and failing, to do. If the grass is always greener, maybe it's astroturf. I've changed jobs a half dozen times over 30 years, each with shiny new promise at the beginning and each turning out in the end to be much the same as the former. 

So I'm fairly certain at 50 that I could find a better free range sexual partner in the wild, but I'm not sure I could find a better life overall. She compromises on having the hopelessly romantic life partner she always wanted (which would not, btw, increase her sexual adventurousness, in case anyone is thinking of mentioning that), and I compromise on the hot sex kitten. Together we compromise our way to a mutually satisfying relationship with most of the rough edges ground off. 

If that makes it sound like marriage is nothing more than a never ending tableau of gray mediocrity, then perhaps I overstate my case. Finding someone with whom you can live for decades happily is no mall achievement, and one that you don't throw away lightly. 

All of that said, a completely sexless marriage WOULD drive me out the door. That, by definition, is no marriage, and should be treated as such.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> Yep.
> 
> Leaving sounds great. But what if leaving involves dissolving the business that's been in your family for generations? *Or moving out of your 5BR house into a studio apartment? Or seeing your kids every other weekend?*
> And that's assuming that your spouse is honest enough to state that the desire is likely gone forever. Few are that honest. Most spouses who withhold sex come up with an endless stream of lame excuses that HD spouses are anxious to believe. It's much easier to believe that your spouse has yet another tough week at work than it is to believe that you just don't do it for them anymore.


Yes, if leaving were so easy the divorce rate would be even higher than it is now. But if you're a father who wants to actually be a father, you have to stay around. In divorce men get screwed royally - I think everyone knows that.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Playthang said:


> I've been reading through so many posts here that refer to one spouse or the other not wanting, needing or allowing sex.
> I am curious as to why you stay. Is it money, kids, love or just not wanting to be alone?


Money, responsibility to an ill spouse, and revenge, in no particular order.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

john117 said:


> Money, responsibility to an ill spouse, and revenge, in no particular order.


Revenge is a dish best served without foreplay.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

After the last tuition check has cleared


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## Rotorhead77 (Nov 7, 2013)

Is lack of sex really a sufficient reason, by itself, to leave? to destroy the family and household we've built together over the last 14 years?

I hate being the bad guy, and it seems to me that leaving for a selfish reason makes me a pretty bad guy.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Rotorhead77 said:


> Is lack of sex really a sufficient reason, by itself, to leave? to destroy the family and household we've built together over the last 14 years?
> 
> I hate being the bad guy, and it seems to me that leaving for a selfish reason makes me a pretty bad guy.


It's not a selfish reason at all. Humans have a right to some level of intimacy and affection. If it's gone on too long, and you know it wouldn't kill or hurt someone to take care of it, then you are doing the right thing.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I stayed - for a very long time - because I didn't want to miss out on my son's childhood, and also out of false hope that she would change or I could do something that would inspire her to change. I'm sure there was also a measure of fear about how things would turn out if I left.

Anyway, nothing ever did change with her no matter what I tried. The 180 probably didn't exist as a concept, but I essentially did that anyway. When my son was older, and when I could no longer sustain false hope, I also dismissed my fears and left. Frankly, that was a great decision, and I only wish I'd done it many years earlier.

As things turned out, I met a far better (and very HD) woman soon after, and we are truly compatible and very happy together. My ex is also happier, I think - she eventually found a very LD man.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ElCanario said:


> Yes, if leaving were so easy the divorce rate would be even higher than it is now. But if you're a father who wants to actually be a father, you have to stay around. In divorce men get screwed royally - I think everyone knows that.


What state do you live in? In most states fathers can now get 50/50 custody if they want it. It's becoming the norm more and more.


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## Playthang (Dec 3, 2012)

Very good responses from ALL of you. I do appreciate it. 
I'm just trying to understand the whys.
And to be blunt I AM THAT SELFISH!!! At least I think I am. I hope to never have to find out. But deep down I really think that I would rather give it up then to stay unhappy.
I read where someone has gone for an entire year with nothing. No sex, no touch, no kiss. And I literally don't understand why. 
I guess that's part of not understanding or knowing someone's story. Everyone has reasons for what they do right?

Thanks again


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Rotorhead77 said:


> Is lack of sex really a sufficient reason, by itself, to leave? to destroy the family and household we've built together over the last 14 years?
> 
> I hate being the bad guy, and it seems to me that leaving for a selfish reason makes me a pretty bad guy.


Sex is not the issue by itself - but the absence or scarcity of it tends to make one unable to ignore their partners imperfections. 

Case in point. You have an awesome nookie night and the next day your partner does something epically stupid - we all do. If you're generally content in the relationship you cut him or her a lot more slack. If it was a frigid night, you'll be arguing about if for a month. This snowballs and pretty much you're roommate with rare benefits.

So, it's not lack of sex in itself but what follows that is usually catastrophic to the marriage.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Playthang said:


> And to be blunt I AM THAT SELFISH!!! At least I think I am.


I don't see it as selfish. You only want normal things from your marriage. I see the unloving, LD/asexual spouse as the selfish one, yet they are happy with the situation.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

My reason is the title of an excellent book that I've read- " Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay".
Although my wife doesn't desire or require sex anymore, she still cuddles in bed, holds hands, kisses & is friendly & respectful of me. I do believe a marriage without sex, isn't a marriage, it becomes a hybrid between "room mates" and close friends with benefits or somewhere in between. My 17 years married love for her is why I stay. Sometimes I wish I didn't so I could leave, not being desired always causes a degree of pain. Our kids are grown, but I will say, if you are miserable & don't act like a couple at all & have kids, you are hurting them by staying. It is proven they will think marriages are just something to tolerate & will end up the same way.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I am staying in a sexless marriage for a few reasons. 1) I am going to give it one last chance. 2) A child on the way 3) I would go from a very comfortable existence back to poverty. I have been as poor as poor gets at times in life so I could hack it but I would not welcome it. 4) For the other 23.5 hours of the day, we get along like magic. We fit like peas in a pod except for this.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

Here's a twist: sometimes one spouse acts like they are being deprived of sex but in reality they don't want it either.


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> ...if you are miserable & don't act like a couple at all & have kids, you are hurting them by staying. It is proven they will think marriages are just something to tolerate & will end up the same way.


Those children CAN overcome though. They are not doomed to repeat a loveless marriage. I am an example. I don't know that I am an anomaly. 

I agree that couples who stay together "for the sake of the children" are really not doing them any favors. Certainly divorce is not an easy choice, but I would rather have seen my parents happier living separate lives than living a mundane miserable existence together.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Rotorhead77 said:


> Is lack of sex really a sufficient reason, by itself, to leave? to destroy the family and household we've built together over the last 14 years?
> 
> I hate being the bad guy, and it seems to me that leaving for a selfish reason makes me a pretty bad guy.


Flip the script. Say a woman asks if her husband beating her is sufficient reason, by itself, to leave? Other than occasional physical abuse, they get along great.

Wouldn't she be a bad person to divorce for such a selfish reason?

The consensus, and perhaps unanimous, opinion would be that she would be justified in divorcing her husband who mistreats her. But if we change a mistreated wife into a mistreated husband, suddenly he's the jerk for wanting a happy marriage.

Whatever.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> What state do you live in? In most states fathers can now get 50/50 custody if they want it. It's becoming the norm more and more.


New Jersey. It's in the books, sure, but 50/50 custody in some cases means you get one day a week and one (or two if you're lucky) weekends a month and all the financial responsibility. I don't know too many men who have fair custody arrangements.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Devotee said:


> I agree that couples who stay together "for the sake of the children" are really not doing them any favors.


I haven't seen any support of this. All of the studies I have seen comparing children of divorced parents to children of parents who are, and remain, married, conclude that divorce increases the risk to a child's well being in almost every way.

I imagine that conditions in a marriage could get bad enough that the children would be helped by their parents divorcing. And I haven't seen studies quantifying that notion. But I very much doubt that general unhappiness rises to that level.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> What state do you live in? In most states fathers can now get 50/50 custody if they want it. It's becoming the norm more and more.


Mothers are still the custodial parents over 80% of the time.

However, even in your best case scenario, each parent is still missing half the time with their children. And that is a significant consideration.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> My reason is the title of an excellent book that I've read- " Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay".
> Although my wife doesn't desire or require sex anymore, she still cuddles in bed, holds hands, kisses & is friendly & respectful of me. I do believe a marriage without sex, isn't a marriage, it becomes a hybrid between "room mates" and close friends with benefits or somewhere in between. My 17 years married love for her is why I stay. Sometimes I wish I didn't so I could leave, not being desired always causes a degree of pain. Our kids are grown, but I will say, if you are miserable & don't act like a couple at all & have kids, you are hurting them by staying. It is proven they will think marriages are just something to tolerate & will end up the same way.


Wow that sounds really hard. Being torn like that.


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## Rotorhead77 (Nov 7, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> But if we change a mistreated wife into a mistreated husband, suddenly he's the jerk for wanting a happy marriage.


If the lack of sex is due to, say, a medical issue, and not due to mistreatment, how does that change your perception of the situation? Obviously that would be a specific case, not the general case...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Rotorhead77 said:


> If the lack of sex is due to, say, a medical issue, and not due to mistreatment, how does that change your perception of the situation? Obviously that would be a specific case, not the general case...


In my heart of hearts, I believe it is acceptable in that case to find sexual fulfillment outside of the marriage. With your partner's consent if that's possible, without otherwise.

A promise to love, cherish, and care for someone in sickness and in health does not imply to me a sexual death sentence. Finding someone else who wants your for physical intimacy who's also willing to not otherwise be your partner is probably damn close to impossible for most of us, short of exchanging money for services rendered, and I understand why that might be unsatisfying.

So operationally, such a person might be SOL. In that case, it can only come down to whether you value your service to others over your service to self. I certainly couldn't come down too harshly on someone who chose either path.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

I stay for the kids and financial stability. I don't want to only see my kids 50% of the time or less. I don't want to lose 1/2 of all that I have earned over the last 20 years.

I hate that my wife does not desire sex with me. I have no idea if she even desires it at all anymore. I simply don't care. She is a decent mother and friend. She is just not what I expected in a wife in that I expected to have a loving sexual relationship with one woman for my life. Oh well...it is what it is.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

bbdad said:


> I hate that my wife does not desire sex with me. I have no idea if she even desires it at all anymore. I simply don't care. She is a decent mother and friend. She is just not what I expected in a wife in that I expected to have a loving sexual relationship with one woman for my life. Oh well...it is what it is.


Were I in this position, I think at some point I would have to start treating my wife as the roommate that she would then be. I'd start cooking for myself, doing my own laundry, scheduling my time as I saw fit to do the things I wanted to do when it didn't affect my children. Sleeping in my own separate room. 

If you're going to live like friends without benefits, go all in.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Rotorhead77 said:


> If the lack of sex is due to, say, a medical issue, and not due to mistreatment, how does that change your perception of the situation? Obviously that would be a specific case, not the general case...


It makes it a lot easier to accept - if it is non fixable, or if the afflicted partner does his or her part to address it, even in vain.

My wife has BPD that popped up after 25 years in a decent marriage. Not a unicorns-and-rainbows marriage but not TAM material either. She also hails from a Central Asia theocracy / totalitarian country where sex is not quite what is here.

My take is that if she did something to address BPD I might be a bit more understanding but given that she does nothing, despite being a major league hypochondriac, to address it simply tells me she's checked out, BPD or not.

So the litmus test is not how much sex happens or does not happen but what the partners do about it.


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## young_lady (Nov 29, 2011)

I guess you don't miss what you've never had. I have never had a fulfilling emotional relationship that also was sexually satisfying. I have a decent sex drive, but given a choice I would take the close emotional bond that my dh and I have over the good sex but sucks in every other way relationship I had with my xh.

My dh has ed, which I believe started out physical but has now become more of a psychological issue. Went to counseling but he was not really into it (no pun intended) and unwilling to do the work to fix it. He has a prescription for Cialis, but never uses it. We do otherwise have a very loving, nurturing and healthy relationship and I am so much happier than I ever was with xh.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

I stayed as long as possible so that my son would call me Dad and know who his dad was and call the stepdad by his first name. I'm his Dad period. I held on as much as possible but eventually the promise of "tomorrow it will be better" never came true. 

Funny enough my ex during the dating phase never turned me down for sex like most NPD's do in the dating early phase. It's called rope a dope. I was the dope. Once a long term hook(child) is dug in they pounce and make you their emotional slave which includes very little sex unless its your birthday and that's pushing it.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Sanity said:


> I stayed as long as possible so that my son would call me Dad and know who his dad was and call the stepdad by his first name. I'm his Dad period. I held on as much as possible but eventually the promise of "tomorrow it will be better" never came true.
> 
> Funny enough my ex during the dating phase never turned me down for sex like most NPD's do in the dating early phase. It's called rope a dope. I was the dope. Once a long term hook(child) is dug in they pounce and make you their emotional slave which includes very little sex unless its your birthday and that's pushing it.


What's NPD?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

Sorry, that should have read: 
What is an NPD?
To answer the question of the OP:
Call me simple, but to me, the point of marriage is to spend your lives together, have sex and provide for each other, for better or worse, in sickness and in health.
Once the sex is gone, what you're left with is a "friend" who requires more of you than the rest of your friends.
I can't see why I'd stick around except maybe for the sake of the kids but realistically, an unhappy parent is probably worse than a happy parent who's absent half the time.
Are you REALLY doing the kids a favour?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Rotorhead77 said:


> If the lack of sex is due to, say, a medical issue, and not due to mistreatment, how does that change your perception of the situation? Obviously that would be a specific case, not the general case...


Your wife's neuropathy certainly complicates matters. Concessions should be made. But, she still has a duty to try to meet your needs. She is capable of sexual behavior. Yet she has refused to do it. In fact, she is put off that you consider your needs important.

In her mind, you have a duty to serve her and she has a duty to be served. And she's convinced you that you're the one being selfish.


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## tilting (Jul 19, 2013)

Cletus said:


> So now I am married to a woman of much higher character with much less sexual energy. Did I really lose so much in the deal? I thought so for a long time, but I'm coming around to the realization that every long term relationship is a significant compromise unless you're lucky enough to hit the trifecta at the dating track - which you can spend your entire life trying, and failing, to do. If the grass is always greener, maybe it's astroturf. I've changed jobs a half dozen times over 30 years, each with shiny new promise at the beginning and each turning out in the end to be much the same as the former.
> 
> So I'm fairly certain at 50 that I could find a better free range sexual partner in the wild, but I'm not sure I could find a better life overall. She compromises on having the hopelessly romantic life partner she always wanted (which would not, btw, increase her sexual adventurousness, in case anyone is thinking of mentioning that), and I compromise on the hot sex kitten. Together we compromise our way to a mutually satisfying relationship with most of the rough edges ground
> 
> All of that said, a completely sexless marriage WOULD drive me out the door. That, by definition, is no marriage, and should be treated as such.



true dat


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I don't see it as selfish. You only want normal things from your marriage. I see the unloving, LD/asexual spouse as the selfish one, yet they are happy with the situation.


I don't think LD people are truly happy with that kind of situation, and I don't think it's helpful to just dismiss them as being LD out of selfishness... I've read so many posts from LD people in which they were most certainly NOT happy that they were hurting their spouse by not being able to give them enthusiastic sex, or feel the desire, etc. It's stressful. My own partner is in "LD mode" right now and is very unhappy about it (and the intimacy has never been without problems). I wish it were different and it can be painful when it goes for a while, but I don't tell her that she owes me sex or that it's her responsibility to give me sex. Yeesh. It's a relationship, not ownership, and a relationship is more than just getting sex however many times a week that you want it. If she never wanted to have sex again, it would be fvcking tragic, but I love her, so I wouldn't leave for that alone. A lot of times with women, there is a reason for the LD, though a few are naturally just LD.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Infrequent or even zero sex does not just make someone friends or roommates with their partner. If that were the case, there'd be no such thing as emotional affairs. I think both the emotional and physical intimacy have to be seriously reduced or lacking to make it friends/roommates.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Kids.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

For most people capable of physical intimacy, physical and emotional intimacy are highly related, one would think.

EA's have the implication of a PA in the works, which keeps the EA going. It would take enough grains in a 50 lb bag of water softener salt to get me to accept that two reasonably healthy adults could keep it emotional without transitioning to physical. 

The so-called TAM "I am great buddy with my spouse in all aspects, we get alone fine, best friends, etc etc except physical" concept needs to be re-evaluated somehow as suspect, under the "ignorance is bliss" heading.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

As someone mentioned earlier, a sexless marriage is not a marriage but a friendship.

I have found that trying to talk to my wife about the lack of sex in our marriage (my wife has become less and less interested in sex over the years) leads to arguements and resentment.

The 'price' of divorce is often too high for many men (and women). Its not just the material losses but the emotional losses too. 
Not being there to put the children to bed, help with home work etc EVERY night etc etc.

Obviously every man and womans dream is to be great friends and great lovers....but many will forego sex to keep the home and family together.

Also, as we get older I think sex becomes less important. I, certainly, have reached the point where sex doesnt bother me anymore. 
I feel saddened and resentful towards my wife for denying me a sexually fulfilling marriage....but seeing and being with my children is, currently, far more important. 

Maybe once the children have flown the nest I will seek to make up what I have missed elsewhere...but my 'bits' will probably have shrivelled up or fallen off by then!


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I agree with most everything you've said ASKARI, but lack of sex will always bother you. I try & convince myself it doesn't either, but it hurts. If you love someone & they don't desire or require intimacy, it is impossible for it not to cause some pain, you just become more resillient. My wife is willing, if I ask, only once a month, but there is no passion, no foreplay, just do it & be done till next month. I quit asking. We've gone over 50 days twice this year & over 100 once, so far, we'll surely beat that record because I'm done with "empty sex".


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> I agree with most everything you've said ASKARI, but lack of sex will always bother you. I try & convince myself it doesn't either, but it hurts. If you love someone & they don't desire or require intimacy, it is impossible for it not to cause some pain, you just become more resillient.


Revenge is your friend then. Meaning, that of you reach a steady state where the other partner has what they need from the relationship - except you - then it's time to actively throw a few monkey wrenches into the happiness machine on a regular basis.

Not enough to make it fail, but enough to make it clear that it is not working. Keep them on the edge, so to speak. Otherwise you're taken for granted and that's all there is to it.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

john117 said:


> For most people capable of physical intimacy, physical and emotional intimacy are highly related, one would think.


Well, I'm quite capable of physical intimacy, but emotional intimacy doesn't automatically make that possible or desirable for me. (And conversely, physical intimacy doesn't necessarily create emotional intimacy.) There are different levels of emotional intimacy. A partner/spouse is (ideally) on the highest level of emotional intimacy, after all, even when all hell has broken loose. 



john117 said:


> EA's have the implication of a PA in the works, which keeps the EA going. It would take enough grains in a 50 lb bag of water softener salt to get me to accept that two reasonably healthy adults could keep it emotional without transitioning to physical.


EAs don't always have to go physical or have any possibility of going physical. They're not always driven by that.

Again, a romantic relationship is more than sex. Sex is a key part of it, but is not what solely defines said relationship. I mean, hell, friends with benefits and one night stands aren't romantic relationships/partnerships/marriages just because there's sex. They're just not the same. It's not JUST the physicality that makes a marriage/partnership, so reducing or removing it doesn't automatically void the marriage/partnership and make it so that you're buddies or whatever...


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I've analyzed this situation in every way I could ever think of. I've thought about every single pro vs con I could conceive or google search on. 

The only viable excuse I could come up with in staying in a sexless marriage is children. Physical intimacy can be received by another as can emotional intimacy. But when your wife is not willing or not able to provide BOTH, you no longer have a marriage, you have either a F buddy or a close friend.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

At the individual level, true. One can have an EA with some random person in New Zealand over Facebook or a meaningless PA ONS and nothing changes. EA and PA can remain unrelated. 

At our target population tho, committed or married people that are not ONS'ing or FWB'ing their way, there's quite a bit higher correlation between physical and emotional relationships, and one's needs are met with an ever changing mixture of the two.

Edit: in other words, while an individual may be able to differentiate between E and P, the typical person may not...


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## young_lady (Nov 29, 2011)

I have to admit that it would be nice to have both the E and P sides of a relationship. I have never had that. I know without a doubt that my husband loves me, and I even believe that he is attracted to me and has at least an average sex drive. But for reasons that he is not willing to address or even explore, can't/won't act on those feelings.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

There was a point in time where I thought it was the physical I missed. Felt I was just responding to the programmed-in male biological tendencies to "spread their seed far and wide", and did not want to succumb to this.

But over time I've realized that, more important to me, I am emotionally unfulfilled. I crave touch, holding someone in my arms, someone that I love, someone that loves me. My "life partner" has deprived me of this and rebuffed my efforts to discuss/fix things.

I really do strongly feel like giving up and throwing in the towel...


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

young_lady said:


> I have to admit that it would be nice to have both the E and P sides of a relationship. I have never had that. I know without a doubt that my husband loves me, and I even believe that he is attracted to me and has at least an average sex drive. But for reasons that he is not willing to address or even explore, can't/won't act on those feelings.


You and me both! It can be very challenging sometimes.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

ElCanario said:


> Yes, if leaving were so easy the divorce rate would be even higher than it is now. But if you're a father who wants to actually be a father, you have to stay around. In divorce men get screwed royally - I think everyone knows that.


That just is not true as an absolute. Many do 50/50 or shared care and get on with their lives. Here the courts look at what is best for the child and if both parents are good parents they have equal or equitable time with the kids. Everyone is impacted by divorce not just men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## H-J (Oct 3, 2013)

Cletus said:


> While it's not fair to characterize my marriage as sexless, it is a very pale reflection of what I had hoped for, so I think I can answer.
> 
> I had a girlfriend when I was young who was, for lack of a better word, a nymphomaniac. It was outstanding, the sex at least. But she was a flawed character in other more fundamental ways that would have bubbled to the surface in a long term marriage, and even the sex would have been an insufficient balm for our eventual troubles.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this post. Seems so many people forget that there are other wonderful reasons for staying.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Holland said:


> That just is not true as an absolute. Many do 50/50 or shared care and get on with their lives. Here the courts look at what is best for the child and if both parents are good parents they have equal or equitable time with the kids. Everyone is impacted by divorce not just men.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's true in theory......in practice things are very much not that way. And I do understand that everyone is impacted by divorce, but the impact on the woman, who more often than not gets the kids and the home, is less than the impact on the man.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

Well,if my marriage was this way I would not like to financial
start over.I would also like to believe this marriage problem 
could be fixed eventually.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Daisy10 said:


> Here's a twist: sometimes one spouse acts like they are being deprived of sex but in reality they don't want it either.


This rang true with me. My wife is very LD (like once a month if I am lucky and then it is very 'vanilla')....and I have recently become very LD.

I'm wondering if on a subconscious level I have just become programmed to 'accept' a sexless marriage by default.

Has my wifes lack of interest rubbed off onto me or am I truly becoming less interested? Or is it caused by her?


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

askari said:


> This rang true with me. My wife is very LD (like once a month if I am lucky and then it is very 'vanilla')....and I have recently become very LD.
> 
> I'm wondering if on a subconscious level I have just become programmed to 'accept' a sexless marriage by default.
> 
> Has my wifes lack of interest rubbed off onto me or am I truly becoming less interested? Or is it caused by her?


You become less interested because the end result doesn't justify the wait. We could do it once every few weeks, few months or never, it is the same basic passionless mechanical interlude either way. Going through the physical motions of sex isn't anything magical, it's when you are desired that makes the difference. Just like anything else, your body, drive, hormones will adapt to lack of intimacy, but your emotions are more combative, alternating between resentment, hurt, anger & numbness.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

H-J said:


> Thanks so much for this post. Seems so many people forget that there are other wonderful reasons for staying.


Well, that's just my reality anyway, though I do have to mention that it's still no fun to fight over sex, and it has caused more than it's share of difficulties. It has almost ruined our marriage. If I could find an alternative with 90% of the rest of the good things and 80% of the sexual mismatch fixed, I'd probably take that trade. 

How can you have make-up sex when you're fighting about sex?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You've figured out your wife has checked out and you're doing the same. It's not rocket science.

It took me a bit to figure out how it works. With more frequent sex you maintain a healthy emotional connection and the marriage runs more smoothly. You go the extra mile for each other. When sex dwindles, so does the desire to go the extra mile. It's not quid pro quo but your tolerance does improve. But if the emotional connection is not there there's no extra mile.

Eventually this becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and after a while there's no meaning behind it. It's like a couple hours of fun and the next day back to emotional square one. At that point when sex becomes this meaningless you might as well check out.


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## britney5 (Nov 20, 2011)

The only reason I stay is for financial reasons. Can't afford the legal costs and also the house is in negative equity.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Massive college tuition checks - feel the love


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## JrsMrs (Dec 27, 2010)

Aside from the lack of intimacy, I actually do like the guy. We get along quite well; if I only wanted a casual friend and financial partner, we'd probably be just fine.
I stay because we are finally in a good financial place, have a child in university with all the associated costs, and another younger boy who would be devastated if we split. The thought of having to tell my son that the family is splitting up turns my stomach. I don't want to leave the beautiful home we've built together. I know he'd fight me tooth and nail for every penny, so if I leave, I'd likely just let him have everything to save the fight. I'd be starting over with nothing. Add in the fact that being single is no guarantee of happiness, and I'm at an impasse with myself.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

JrsMrs, yours if one of the most honest posts I have seen in regards to staying in a marriage. There's plenty of marriages that are involved in the same issues. 
However,the even more honest thing for you to do is to discuss it with your husband so the two of you might find a more equitable solution.
My ex felt pretty much the same as you and, in fact, bore two other men's children while we were married. Her deceit caused me to waste over twenty years of my life providing for her and hers and when they finished their schooling, she found a judge to bed down who helped clean me out and ruin me (they thought) financially.
I would have preferred to hear about my short comings before or in the very least, after our first week of marriage.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I stay in a mostly sexless marriage for the upcoming child. Another side reason is my lack of financial strength. I have been poor for most of my life and could tough it out yet again but would rather not. Still, that being said I have imposed an ultimatum of 2015. If by the start of that year, the passion is not back into the bedroom then I am moving on.


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## JrsMrs (Dec 27, 2010)

:rofl:


hookares said:


> JrsMrs, yours if one of the most honest posts I have seen in regards to staying in a marriage. There's plenty of marriages that are involved in the same issues.
> However,the even more honest thing for you to do is to discuss it with your husband so the two of you might find a more equitable solution.
> My ex felt pretty much the same as you and, in fact, bore two other men's children while we were married. Her deceit caused me to waste over twenty years of my life providing for her and hers and when they finished their schooling, she found a judge to bed down who helped clean me out and ruin me (they thought) financially.
> I would have preferred to hear about my short comings before or in the very least, after our first week of marriage.


I have brought it up ad nauseum. It makes no difference. Empty promises that he will do better and wants more. For whatever reason, he is incapable of being an active participant in a relationship when it comes down to brass tacks. In the end, the decision is mine alone. If I leave him, whether it be in a month or 10 years, it will be with him calling after me 'don't go... I can do better'. I hate this life.


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## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

Exactly the topic I've been looking for! ZERO sex in almost 6 years, and just a few times a year for the few years prior to that. Two kids grown and out the door, one almost done with HS. I have NO idea why I'm still here, except I want to spend time around my D (though she's at that age where her life is in her room). This is a bad situation. It makes me all kinds of ill, angry, sad, anxious, depressed, confused........never happy. Life at home is 'civil', roommate style; watching TV, trying to think of things to say at dinner, etc. Separate rooms/beds for these six years. 

I'm a young 50 now. I work out regularly, try and eat right. You won't find a six pack on me, but I'm a big, healthy, strong guy....with a still highly active libido. What I wouldn't give to go balls-deep.

I know I need to get out, but it terrifies me. For me, to answer the OP's question, it's fear - straight up fear. The fear of not knowing what to say to say I'm done, of her reaction, of the kids' reactions.........because I'm pretty sure all the **** will be heaped on me, this was all my fault, what a jerk for leaving his family kinds of things. This has been going on in my head for over a year now, and I often feel like I'm on the verge of a total breakdown. Who can live this way, waking up every morning and having to remind yourself this is not a bad dream, but your daily reality? Absolutely brutal.

Some days I feel strong about it, like I just want to rip that band-aid off.......and other days I feel totally helpless, loser-like, a scared nobody who will never be able to say the words and take that step....condemning myself to this mental torment and this play-acting forever more.

Jeez, I really need to do this.........after the holidays of course.


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## dontbeused (Nov 15, 2013)

Rotorhead77 said:


> Is lack of sex really a sufficient reason, by itself, to leave? to destroy the family and household we've built together over the last 14 years?
> 
> I hate being the bad guy, and it seems to me that leaving for a selfish reason makes me a pretty bad guy.


Sex is a need, the withholding of the sex is the selfish act and that is not on you, it is on her. So you leaving, would at that point be the effect caused by her, when she makes the decision that she would rather you left for good, than her have sex with you regularly.
You saying it is selfish of you to leave for that reason is just an excuse to not stand up for your needs as a man. 
So, sorry, I disagree completely with your comment.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Leaving is the easy way out. A lot more fun to make their life miserable for the duration....

At mid 50's I figure I have a few good sex years and a couple decades of revenge. Easy choice... 

When she's in a nursing home and our daughters have written her off, even after she paid a lot towards their very expensive education I can only hope she has enough mind left to make the connection.

Think long term.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

PinkSalmon13 said:


> ......after the holidays of course.


Please tell me that was sarcasm. If so, bravo. If not, that is one of the saddest examples of the TAM moving deadline I've seen. After the holidays will become after the school year, then after summer break, then the holidays again. There's a term for that. I'll let you guess what it is.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Marriage vows.

Don't have the drive to get out.

Some do get out, find their new mate and are a great match. 

Some get cheated on and abused, put up with it all, still stay, and then try to find even more ways to please their abusive spouse that still doesn't take care of their needs, even after everything is said and done. These are enablers and deep down must like to play the victim because they must be used to it. And we see many posts of this on TAM.

Financially, most of us work full time jobs because one income doesn't really work in today's time. Many here who have kids, both work near full time jobs and they share raising the kids. Hubby is at work during the day, wife stays home raises the kids. Hubby gets home, wife goes to work and he raises the kids. Its tough but it works.

Some feel one day the LD spouse, who never meets their needs, no matter how much they read, learn and post, will change one day, but unfortunately, that day usually never comes. There's hope, right?

Some stay because of their faith. Yet, I don't see how someone's faith has anything to do with their sex lives. It's a spiritual matter.

Some get used to it, comfy and don't care anymore.

Some are scared to be on their own again and don't want to do what needs to be done.


On a personal note, my wife has lost 5 lbs already and is now finally, after 13+ years of marriage, counting her calories so she knows how much to eat every day. And she is starting to wear somewhat sexier clothes and not pushing me away doing my sexy flirty things with her. But her sex drive is still low and pathetic.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

PinkSalmon...please get an IC and discuss this. Get a real plan and understand your options. Get some of your closest friends or brother in your confidence so you can tell them how bad it really is and how close you are to wanting to leave...this is so they can support you and help you. Your closest people will tend to tell you if you are sounding crazy or not, you know? So you can bounce your "fears" of what everyone will say off of them and hear from them any advice or help they might have to offer. 

Too often, people are that close to leaving but don't reach out to their own support system to get feedback. It is critical to have that feedback and support so that you know you are making sound and logical decisions.

Now I'm saying all of the above with the assumption that you have discussed the sex issues with your wife and she refuses to work on it with you? If you haven't tried that, you need to.

If you have, then get to IC and unload your real pain and fears...and get at least one confidante who you can trust to support you and give you objective feedback.

My friends were invaluable to me when I had to decide to divorce and the year or so leading up to that decision.


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## alibaba70 (Nov 19, 2013)

For me my biggest mental block for a divorce is kids.
Just break my heart to imagine has to meet ,hug and kiss my kids only for the weekend.

But wont let that stopping me, if she wont work it out then its not a marriage after all.
It takes two to tango


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

No, logical reason most of the time!! If you are to the point of cohabitating and being billpayers together what is the point?


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I'll admit to being a little spineless & settling, but we go months without sex & not years? We sleep in the same bed & there still is some affection.
If you sleep separately in different rooms, then what's the difference in separate houses, there is none? Proximity doesn't make it a marriage & if your family, kids,& friends know that you live this way, they can't fault you for calling it quits.
I've set numerous deadlines & always kept pushing them back, it doesn't work. You have to make up your mind & just do it.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

I don't particularly like any kind of long term sexual relationship but I wanted kids so I got married but the sex was so horrible we stopped. It's been 20 years with no sex but I stay on for the kids.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mr B said:


> I don't particularly like any kind of long term sexual relationship but I wanted kids so I got married but the sex was so horrible we stopped. It's been 20 years with no sex but I stay on for the kids.


That (plus your comment on the porn thread) sounds like the saddest marriage I've ever heard of.


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## Enamored (Dec 25, 2009)

My wife hates my touch. She abhor my kiss. We have sex very infrequently and I suspect it is to shut me up. Good enough reason for most of us to leave. 

But I am hanging around. Why ? Primarily because of kids. And that it would be very difficult for my wife to be alone.And I cannot break my marriage vows of taking care of her..:-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enamored (Dec 25, 2009)

To add to above.Every day, I fantasise to kick her to curb . Though I am quite nice to her and take care of her. Including finances, husband work etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Quite frankly if I was in a sexless marriage I would be insisting on an open marriage to get my needs met, and if she resists, I'll tell her to file for divorce. Fking cruel to collar a man and have him slave away without any loving back! Bleh


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## alibaba70 (Nov 19, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Quite frankly if I was in a sexless marriage I would be insisting on an open marriage to get my needs met, and if she resists, I'll tell her to file for divorce. Fking cruel to collar a man and have him slave away without any loving back! Bleh


I wouldnt ever consider open marriage specially married with children case
What message will your kids percieved they they see their dad faking around and still in mariage institution.
Its okay to conduct infidelity?
Sorry, i'll do take it or leave it choice


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Kids shouldn't be seeing the dad fking mum either! And besides once they are old enough to understand human relations and daddy's "friends" they will be old enough to understand the importance of -> Honesty, which is a quality that is upheld in open marriages


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I can't believe all of the people staying in loveless, sexless marriages, sleeping in separate rooms, all for the sake of your kids. Don't you understand what kind of sad destructive example this sets for them? They are getting no positive benefit to living with parents like this. Wouldn't you be happier seeing happy divorced parents or miserable distant married ones? Kids heal after divorce, they are scarred if they are shown "dead" marriages are okay.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If a not so great marriage is a teaching moment so be it. The more I think about it the more I realize marriage is great in some circumstances but awful in others. Too many compromises.

Maybe my kids will learn that instead of tying the knot with the first loser that pops the question.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

I don't want a "friend with benefits"... I'm at the stage of my life where I know that sex without love is meaningless and not for me... and there is no way I could be in a loving relationship and a miserable one at the same time. Which is why I'm giving up and moving on...


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

Enamored said:


> And I cannot break my marriage vows of taking care of her..:-(


I used to feel this way... but honestly, taking care of her too much caused my downfall. She is not honoring her marriage vows to love and cherish me, so as far as I'm concerned, the vows are already broken. I've wasted the last 4 years of my life trying to fix things and them not getting any better. I think if I stayed one more day I would probably end up killing myself from the pain/misery/loneliness/rejection and the negativity that encircles her. And I really don't want to go down that path, so it's better for everyone, IMHO, if I just move out and move on.

I really hate quitting, but sometimes you just have no choice.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> That (plus your comment on the porn thread) sounds like the saddest marriage I've ever heard of.


Well we get along fine there is just no sex. I do miss it for sure. The excitement of having skin to skin sex with someone new. But I had a choice. Have kids and be part of a family and go without sex or be single again (as I was until I was 40) and probably die alone. Some people can have their cake and eat it too but it just wasn't possible for me although I did try over the years to find someone to have sex with that I didn't have to pay.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Quite frankly if I was in a sexless marriage I would be insisting on an open marriage to get my needs met, and if she resists, I'll tell her to file for divorce. Fking cruel to collar a man and have him slave away without any loving back! Bleh


I am not in a sexless marriage, but for so long it was close to that. When I took charge and wanted more she complied to my advanced....just not happily.

So, she told me I can have sex with other women. She just said that to keep me off of her. So I started to date other women and now that I was close to actually having a sexual relationship, her whole attitude has changed...

Now I don't know what to do. I don't know how long this will last. I know she is only having sex to prevent me from getting sex elsewhere. The only change is now she knows that the possibility its there. She still believes that I wont follow through with an affair. She is rugsweeping and she never told me that this "open marriage" agreement is over....


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I have been looking for a job for the last 2 years, I have applied for anything and everything I can do. Out of all the jobs I have applied for I have had 3 interviews over the last 2 years and didn't get the job. 

Now I am pregnant again due in less than a month and It makes it even harder for me to leave. To support 2 children on minimum wage and having to put them both in daycare while i am working, is pretty much pointless, because after paying for daycare there will be no money left for anything else. 

And also my son is really close to his dad and I just can't fathom taking that away.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

That would be rough, I don't understand why you would get pregnant again, if you are in an unhappy marriage??


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Quite frankly if I was in a sexless marriage I would be insisting on an open marriage to get my needs met, and if she resists, I'll tell her to file for divorce. Fking cruel to collar a man and have him slave away without any loving back! Bleh


You shouldn't need to tell HER to file for divorce, YOU should file for divorce. If you feel you have done all you can, and things have fell on deaf ears, then you should file.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

woundedwarrior said:


> That would be rough, I don't understand why you would get pregnant again, if you are in an unhappy marriage??


I can't speak for others but I can for my own family member. I had a family member who was unhappy but kept getting pregnant. She told me she really felt that with each pregnancy she thought that would somehow magically change things and the marriage would turn around, and that husband would finally open up his eyes and see the light. That never works. And here she is 3 kids later and nothing has changed.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> I can't believe all of the people staying in loveless, sexless marriages, sleeping in separate rooms, all for the sake of your kids. Don't you understand what kind of sad destructive example this sets for them? They are getting no positive benefit to living with parents like this. Wouldn't you be happier seeing happy divorced parents or miserable distant married ones? Kids heal after divorce, they are scarred if they are shown "dead" marriages are okay.


But they do! I know at least 3 married couples who stay in sexless marriage for the kids - till the youngest one is 18. Separate bedrooms, separate lives and at least some of them have sex on the side...

Kids have a stable home, don't need to be torn between 2 households, plus financially it's much better...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

woundedwarrior said:


> I can't believe all of the people staying in loveless, sexless marriages, sleeping in separate rooms, all for the sake of your kids. Don't you understand what kind of sad destructive example this sets for them? They are getting no positive benefit to living with parents like this.


Most (all?) of the studies measuring the well being of children of divorce and children of married couples show that children of married couples are better off in nearly every way.



> Wouldn't you be happier seeing happy divorced parents or miserable distant married ones?


That's a false dilemma. Rarely is the choice one of a miserable marriage versus a blissful single life. Studies have actually shown that people in unhappy marriages who remain married are actually happier, five years later, than those who divorced.

And, frankly, I think most kids are too narcissistic to adopt the attitude of gladly suffering through a divorce, seeing each parent part-time, shuttling between two houses, having their grades tank in school, and many other burdens, as long as their parents are happy about it. Most kids are concerned about themselves much more than their parents.



> Kids heal after divorce, they are scarred if they are shown "dead" marriages are okay.


Just because kids survive divorce doesn't mean they're not harmed. 5 out of 6 people who play Russian roulette live. Does that mean it's a good idea for those people? I wouldn't say so.

Also, I think it could be a positive thing for some of today's children to learn that marriage can be hard, yet is something worth remaining committed to. I think it could be negative to teach children that marriage is an instant ticket to effortless bliss, and if it isn't, just bail.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I can promise you the kids are as miserable as the parents, unless the couple can do some award winning acting. Kids are affected by parents treatment of one another & even young ones know something isn't right when Mommy & Daddy aren't in the same room.


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## Aule (Aug 20, 2012)

PinkSalmon13 said:


> Exactly the topic I've been looking for! ZERO sex in almost 6 years, and just a few times a year for the few years prior to that. Two kids grown and out the door, one almost done with HS. I have NO idea why I'm still here, except I want to spend time around my D (though she's at that age where her life is in her room). This is a bad situation. It makes me all kinds of ill, angry, sad, anxious, depressed, confused........never happy. Life at home is 'civil', roommate style; watching TV, trying to think of things to say at dinner, etc. Separate rooms/beds for these six years.
> 
> I'm a young 50 now. I work out regularly, try and eat right. You won't find a six pack on me, but I'm a big, healthy, strong guy....with a still highly active libido. What I wouldn't give to go balls-deep.
> 
> ...


There is also one more thing you should fear. Maintenance and child support. Recent court cases allow child support for room and board at college until age 23.

I stayed with an abusive wife for ten years because she said repeatedly if I left her she would take me for every cent I had and would ever make. Thank gawd that mariage was childless.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Material things are no reason to stay in a loveless marriage. I lost nearly everything and am far better off by myself than having my ex wife use me to finance her affairs and the raising of her children.


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## Aule (Aug 20, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> I stay in a mostly sexless marriage for the upcoming child. Another side reason is my lack of financial strength. I have been poor for most of my life and could tough it out yet again but would rather not. Still, that being said I have imposed an ultimatum of 2015. If by the start of that year, the passion is not back into the bedroom then I am moving on.


UPCOMING child? I wouldn't call abstinence during the final trimester the same as a sexless marriage. I also don't make love to my wife during her period. Both times are valid reasons to show love in other ways.


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## Aule (Aug 20, 2012)

Cletus said:


> A promise to love, cherish, and care for someone in sickness and in health does not imply to me a sexual death sentence.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I think a lot of people take the promise far too serious. I'm Jewish, and basic Jewish Law REQUIRES both in a couple to remain sexually available to each other with only a few very
> ...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

woundedwarrior said:


> I can promise you the kids are as miserable as the parents, unless the couple can do some award winning acting. Kids are affected by parents treatment of one another & even young ones know something isn't right when Mommy & Daddy aren't in the same room.


I don't necessarily think that arguing behind closed doors is a Herculean task beyond the capability of most adults.

As for the lives of children being improved by divorce, I'll simply state that all of the academic studies have proved you wrong.

I think that, most of the time, the attitude that kids will be just fine after divorce is nothing more than wishful thinking by parents who are divorcing, or have divorced. Now, I'm not saying that divorce isn't sometimes necessary. There are scenarios whereby I would divorce my wife, even though my children would suffer because of it. But I wouldn't try to fool myself by insisting that my kids would actually be better off when all of the hard data prove otherwise.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> I don't necessarily think that arguing behind closed doors is a Herculean task beyond the capability of most adults.
> 
> As for the lives of children being improved by divorce, I'll simply state that all of the academic studies have proved you wrong.
> 
> I think that, most of the time, the attitude that kids will be just fine after divorce is nothing more than wishful thinking by parents who are divorcing, or have divorced. Now, I'm not saying that divorce isn't sometimes necessary. There are scenarios whereby I would divorce my wife, even though my children would suffer because of it. But I wouldn't try to fool myself by insisting that my kids would actually be better off when all of the hard data prove otherwise.


You think an abusive situation with a lack of respect and poor relations between two people is better for the children to see than to see two seperate households.

I'm all for people getting over their differences and getting along, but that's not how it works out.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

treyvion said:


> You think an abusive situation with a lack of respect and poor relations between two people is better for the children to see than to see two seperate households.
> 
> I'm all for people getting over their differences and getting along, but that's not how it works out.


If the choice is between a marriage where both spouses and the children are all subjected to violence, and a divorced life where both parents move on to idyllic lives where burdens and worries are things of the past, then I agree that divorce would be better for children.

However, given that all of the studies on the impact of divorce on children prove that it is negative, I think the above scenario is unrealistic.

Given the more realistic choice of two parents who are unhappy being married and living together, and two parents who are unhappy being single and living apart, I will go with the studies that prove that being married is usually better for the children.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

woundedwarrior said:


> I can promise you the kids are as miserable as the parents, unless the couple can do some award winning acting. Kids are affected by parents treatment of one another & even young ones know something isn't right when Mommy & Daddy aren't in the same room.


This is a myth perpetrated by people to make themselves feel better about breaking up a family just so they can go out and have sex. Not every sexless couple hates each other. Children are better off in a two parent household and parents who are sexless have a responsibility to stay on for the kids until they are grown and gone. Breaking up a family just so you can go out and have sex is a form of child abuse.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I think a lot of people take the promise far too serious. I'm Jewish, and basic Jewish Law REQUIRES both in a couple to remain sexually available to each other with only a few very
specific exceptions (pregnancy, menstruation, waiting period after defloration).

With my moral values total witholding without a medical excuse would be grounds for divorce.[/QUOTE]

There are many good things and many bad things in different religions.

I know very little about the Jewish religion...however the above is one of the good things.
How do I become Jewish?!

Joking apart, loving and satisfying sex, often enough to suit both parties is the cement that holds a marriage together.
Once the sex goes everything starts to crumble...slowly but surely.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

askari said:


> I think a lot of people take the promise far too serious. I'm Jewish, and basic Jewish Law REQUIRES both in a couple to remain sexually available to each other with only a few very
> specific exceptions (pregnancy, menstruation, waiting period after defloration).


I had a friend who told me to never become Jewish, there are too many laws. But this is a damn good one!



askari said:


> I know very little about the Jewish religion...however the above is one of the good things.
> How do I become Jewish?!


LOL - very funny.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

woundedwarrior said:


> I can promise you the kids are as miserable as the parents, unless the couple can do some award winning acting. Kids are affected by parents treatment of one another & even young ones know something isn't right when Mommy & Daddy aren't in the same room.


I agree! That's why I feel sometimes staying can do far more harm to kids than leaving. I would rather come from a broken home than
to remain in a broken home!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PeKyng (Dec 8, 2013)

I am coming up on my second wedding anniversary. My wife is holding sex hostage. Back in the day, we were having sex three times a day and she was trying to get us to have it four times a day! Now, that we are married, lately, I am fortunate to make love to my wife two or three times a week. And that would be a very good week!

The partner who decides to hold intimacy hostage are usually the ones trying to pull a power trip. I don't really believe that the person who is holding out truly understands how they have placed the relationship in dangerous waters.

If your relationship was originally set without physical intimacy, then that is okay. It is something that both have agreed on. But, when you partially create your foundation on sexual compatibility and then take that away, then I find that very cruel and it is setting your relationship up for failure. People forget that marriage is a give and take type of relationship. Compromise is extremely important. Being selfish and considering only your needs does not build a solid marriage.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Agree with this. I'm not very happy in my marriage (no sex, wife very insecure which leads to her being a bit of a nag with me, no common interests which leads to us leading somewhat separate lives when the kids go to bed, and I honestly look forward to my time away from her), but with two small kids, I can't fathom divorce. We get along well enough, but it's like we're roommates that share a bed instead of a married couple. The kids mostly see that we're a happy family (except for the times that she's a total nag in the car when I'm driving because she's not in charge), so for now, it's working, although on occasion my answer will be different.


I'm curious, How long have you been together and how old are your kids?


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## Aule (Aug 20, 2012)

jayde said:


> I had a friend who told me to never become Jewish, there are too many laws. But this is a damn good one!


You only have to follow those laws which you can. At the same time, you cannot always interpret them to suit your convenience. There are three levels of observance, least to most stringent: Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox. In general, Orthodox is literal fundamentalism which only allows progress which does not interfere with tradition, Reform celebrates our ethnicity rather than our laws, and Conservative is kind of like your Methodism in it's attitude toward viewing the law in the perspective of current needs, preserving most traditions in some form or another.



jayde said:


> LOL - very funny.


Find a local rabbi, study for a year, get circumcised (or prepare for your prick to be pricked if you are already), then take a dip in a mikveh. Be prepared to be discouraged three times. Taking up the load of our persecution and our charge to be messengers of compassion is NOT for the fainthearted.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

PeKyng said:


> I am coming up on my second wedding anniversary. My wife is holding sex hostage. Back in the day, we were having sex three times a day and she was trying to get us to have it four times a day! Now, that we are married, lately, I am fortunate to make love to my wife two or three times a week. And that would be a very good week!
> 
> The partner who decides to hold intimacy hostage are usually the ones trying to pull a power trip. I don't really believe that the person who is holding out truly understands how they have placed the relationship in dangerous waters.
> 
> If your relationship was originally set without physical intimacy, then that is okay. It is something that both have agreed on. But, when you partially create your foundation on sexual compatibility and then take that away, then I find that very cruel and it is setting your relationship up for failure. People forget that marriage is a give and take type of relationship. Compromise is extremely important. Being selfish and considering only your needs does not build a solid marriage.


I went through something similar as it was around the 2yr mark when the sex dropped to nothing on her end.

She took intimacy, touching, kissing away and said she could care less about sex regardless of how many conversations we had about it.

She did her best to make me feel guilty for wanting intimacy over a years time that I became afraid of being touched. (If that makes any sense)

I ended up leaving and the (afraid of being touched) thing is still part of my life, I cant seem to de-program myself from the mental damage she did.

I fell sorry for the people that decide to live out their life's in relationships like this as it mentally destroyed me in less than a years time.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Together 13 years, married almost 11. Kids are 2 1/2.
> 
> Another thing she does is complain how fat she is (she's a bit overweight but not obese) but does nothing about it. She's lost 50 lbs before, but now she says she can't keep on that regimen due to the kids. I would think that wanting to be in shape for the kids would make her want to get in shape, but she's not strong enough mentally to want to do so. She'd rather eat her candy and sweets, as that's the path of least resistance.


She's strong enough, she's just distracted and not taking responsibility.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Janky said:


> I went through something similar as it was around the 2yr mark when the sex dropped to nothing on her end.
> 
> She took intimacy, touching, kissing away and said she could care less about sex regardless of how many conversations we had about it.
> 
> ...


At least you know you have a mental issue which needs to be de-programmed. I would start by involving myself in the behaviors which you have been denied. Where there is a will there is a way, start somewhere.

Also talk to a therepist.


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## Oldrandwisr (Jun 22, 2013)

Many people posting in the Long Term Success section talk about sex frequency slowing down to almost nothing at times in the relationship, usually during the segment in marriage with children or working long hours. They always *remained affectionate* through the dry spells and both partners expressed equal desires. They mention after life's hectic spells, the sex returned. In those cases, the signs were there that it was worth waiting out the dry spell, having reasonable assurance it would return to normal patterns. They don't have the gut feeling that it is a permanent situation and stay on course.

The difference in situations in this thread is the affection and the behaviors that show each other they are still desired is missing. That is defined as rejection and lack of respect by not communicating or at least showing signs of desire. When self esteem suffers, it is a big red flag. When the respect and affection are gone, those are valid reasons to not stay in a sexless marriage. Many years are wasted in this instance hoping something will change when the relationship is fundamentally incompatible.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

Janky said:


> I went through something similar as it was around the 2yr mark when the sex dropped to nothing on her end.
> 
> She took intimacy, touching, kissing away and said she could care less about sex regardless of how many conversations we had about it.
> 
> ...


That will be fixed when you get with a woman who doesn't do that.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> That will be fixed when you get with a woman who doesn't do that.


It's that simple. 

We over think these things, when we try to make the solution something that knows it doesn't want to be your solution!


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## dedad (Aug 22, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> If the choice is between a marriage where both spouses and the children are all subjected to violence, and a divorced life where both parents move on to idyllic lives where burdens and worries are things of the past, then I agree that divorce would be better for children.
> 
> However, given that all of the studies on the impact of divorce on children prove that it is negative, I think the above scenario is unrealistic.
> 
> Given the more realistic choice of two parents who are unhappy being married and living together, and two parents who are unhappy being single and living apart, I will go with the studies that prove that being married is usually better for the children.


I lean towards PHTLump's assessment. Because my wife is LD and not interested in sex does not mean that we create an abusive environment at home or that we scream at each other about this. I stay in the marriage so that the children can have the stability and support they need during their formative years. The lack of sex hurts me, but it is my responsibility to not let that hurt the kids.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

You can only do that for so long before you, too, will burn out. Unless your spouse is one that maintains the touching/hugging/kissing, everything except for sex. Maybe then you'll be OK.

When you're deprived of everything, when it's clear you're here just to make the money, take care of everything, be a good "roommate", and there is no demonstration of care or affection from your spouse... then you'll feel it, too.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

No two people are generally alike. I have always been independent and do not require a lot of emotional support from those around me. Although I do really like sex a lot and I am not in a sexless marriage (just not the frequency I would like) and would walk out the door if sex dried up because life is just too short to not have fun.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

dedad said:


> I lean towards PHTLump's assessment. Because my wife is LD and not interested in sex does not mean that we create an abusive environment at home or that we scream at each other about this.



If you think your kids don't pick up on these signs I suggest you reconsider. Maybe if they're in preschool they don't know or care, but older kids pick up very quickly what's happening between the sheets (unless they're in boarding school ) and how this affects the family dynamics overall.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

john117 said:


> If you think your kids don't pick up on these signs I suggest you reconsider. Maybe if they're in preschool they don't know or care, but older kids pick up very quickly what's happening between the sheets (unless they're in boarding school ) and how this affects the family dynamics overall.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Heck my kids urge me to "divorce the monster" especially the older one but they change their minds once the tuition checks come due...

I would be interested to find out if kids caught in the middle of a sexless marriage end up being used as excuses or peons.... One of my wife's favorite pre-rejection techniques used to be about picking a fight with my older girl usually right before the weekend... After tracking these "fights" for a few months they were as regular as the tides. I called her on it (rather strongly) and thankfully she had a clue epiphany and picking on my girl stopped... Replaced by more traditional conflicts or excuses :rofl:


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