# Guys Trip



## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

Hi,

I'm going through many difficulties with my relationship presently, but one that is coming up is a guys golf trip I have brought up. I'm asking for some advice.
My wife and I have been married for about 5.5 years, and in that time I have taken 3 trips where I have been away from home: 2 of them are an overnight for an alumni golf tournament for my college baseball team, and 1 was my best friend's bachelor party to Arizona for 3 nights. Other than that, I have not spent a night away from the family (we have a 17 year old and a 4.5 year old). 

This is a Friday-Sunday golf trip to what would be considered a small resort town, it's essentially in the woods in northern Minnesota. Every time I have brought up a trip like this, it gets questioned as to why I need to do these sort of things, and that "I must find these things more important than spending time with my family." I find this rather offensive, and I try to explain how golf is a passion of mine, and a good time to spend time with friends. 

I just want to know what the wives out there think about this. i already missed one of my best friends 40th birthday party a few months back because she frankly she didn't want me to go. I was the only one of 12 who was invited that didn't go. There are obviously some trust issues, but I have never cheated on my wife, never even talked to another woman that she would see as disrespectful or shady. 

What do you think?


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

What are the "obvious" trust issues?


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

I would say they revolve around a few things:
1. In her previous marriage, she was cheated on many times. He was a sociopath, doesn't even see is 17 year old son (the 17 year old is my stepson). 
2. About 6 months before we were married was one of these alumni tournaments. We all went to the local strip club, which I didn't tell her about, as honestly we hadn't talked about and I didn't think was a big deal. She thought it was a huge deal. I haven't stepped foot in once since.
3. My wife has periodically checked my phone without me knowing. One of the times she saw a conversation between an old friend and I (not that kind of friend, we never dated, kissed, hooked up, anything). She had posted about getting divorced, so I reached out to see if she was ok, and we had a conversation about everything. She saw it and got upset. This friend of mine is what most consider an attractive woman, so it threw up red flags to her.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

My husband doesn't travel a lot without more. I travel alone more than he does. 

This year, one of buddies wanted to round up the gang (of 5) to do a "now we're 50 trip." I immediately said yes to it. unfortunately, the lockdown has affected it. 

Do you have a few friends in town? How does your wife feel about these friends?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In normal M life, this isn't an issue at all, you should go.

As long as you're not neglecting family trips or outings, and you're squared away, no problem. 

The challenge is you have to calmly, clearly, communicate that it's something you're doing, and not let her control the narrative on the whole subject.

Don't treat it as a big deal. And it's not good to accept her bringing it up ad nauseam. 

Just remember it's a two way street and the responsible behavior you show her will be the saving grace when she may test you, later, by taking a trip.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> We all went to the local strip club, which I didn't tell her about,


Be careful if you go there, there are women who are on the make. A master / mistress of getting your wallet without your even knowing. And who will also resort to putting stuff in your drin.

My father said his accountant experienced this. And of course, had to explain it to his wife.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Honestly it depends...I wouldn't mind if my husband goes away, but he doesn't...BUT he would very much mind if I went away...see the double standard there? Does your wife get to take part in her passions a few times a year like you do? Does she get time in general to do what she wants? If not, then that may be why she doesn't want you to do it.


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## examp (Aug 6, 2020)

I suppose she has also never been away. The question is, is it because she doesnt trust you or doesnt want you to be away from her. You write many difficulties but only mentioned this one. Being a male I cant speak for what wives think, and I suppose you cant take her with. You shouldnt allow your wife to check your phone, she will always think the worst. There must be some tension that causes this. You need to get to the bottom of it.. I just saw the previous post and agree


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

TimTut22 said:


> I would say they revolve around a few things:
> 2. About 6 months before we were married was one of these alumni tournaments. We all went to the local strip club, which I didn't tell her about, as honestly we hadn't talked about and I didn't think was a big deal. She thought it was a huge deal. I haven't stepped foot in once since.
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, seriously? If my husband went without telling me, I would be LIVID! Imagine your wife did something without telling you...that's a big deal.

I'd like to see how you'd react if she was talking to an attractive male friend...I'm sure you'd think he was trying to get in her pants.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is times like this that a man must stand his ground. Life is short, friendships are hard to make and keep.
Be respectful, while on the trip....goes without saying.

Allow her the same freedom.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> Honestly it depends...I wouldn't mind if my husband goes away, but he doesn't...BUT he would very much mind if I went away...see the double standard there? Does your wife get to take part in her passions a few times a year like you do? Does she get time in general to do what she wants? If not, then that may be why she doesn't want you to do it.


I have never and will never tell her she can't do that stuff, and I in fact encourage it. I can't think of anytime that she has wanted to do something that I didn't greet her with happiness about doing it, let alone saying no.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> In normal M life, this isn't an issue at all, you should go.
> 
> As long as you're not neglecting family trips or outings, and you're squared away, no problem.
> 
> ...


Totally agree here, I've never taken a trip of my own in lieu of a family trip- family always comes first.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Simple answer from me. Go golfing for a day. No need to act like you're a bachelor and plan to go away for overnight golfing trips.

I'm with the ladies on this.

JMHO.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> Honestly it depends...I wouldn't mind if my husband goes away, but he doesn't...BUT he would very much mind if I went away...see the double standard there? Does your wife get to take part in her passions a few times a year like you do? Does she get time in general to do what she wants? If not, then that may be why she doesn't want you to do it.


I wrote in a different post, nbi


NextTimeAround said:


> My husband doesn't travel a lot without more. I travel alone more than he does.
> 
> This year, one of buddies wanted to round up the gang (of 5) to do a "now we're 50 trip." I immediately said yes to it. unfortunately, the lockdown has affected it.
> 
> Do you have a few friends in town? How does your wife feel about these friends?


I'm originally from here, so yes I have friends in town, whether from high school, college, neighbors, or work. I will say most of my friends she deals with, but doesn't like a ton. it's the old "bad influence" situation. Almost all of them are married with kids, stand up guys...but they like the same things I like-sports, gambling. It's really not her thing, so she gets jealous about it. She's admitted such.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> Dude, seriously? If my husband went without telling me, I would be LIVID! Imagine your wife did something without telling you...that's a big deal.
> 
> I'd like to see how you'd react if she was talking to an attractive male friend...I'm sure you'd think he was trying to get in her pants.


I didn't not tell her anything, nor was I hiding it. Do you tell your husband about every single conversation you have with every friend all the time? That would be exhausting. It was a friend going through a hard time, and I was trying to help her out. I did, we ended the conversation. No flirting, no follow-up conversations, nothing. So if it was a guy it's different? Or if she was unattractive it's different?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

In a healthy relationship I think it’s good and healthy to take trips away from your spouse. 

But if I was putting myself in her shoes.... you need to make sure you spend time and plan fun outings and over night outings and vacations with your wife and your family. If you spend more trips with your boys than you do with your wife then I would be upset and I think you should get your priorities straight. 

Also, your obviously leaving her alone to take care of the kid which I’m sure she doesn’t love, but she would hate even more if she never got to spend girls time away from the kids every once in a while. 

When the wife is happy, then she wants you to be happy. She isn’t going to be happy if you make your boys more a property than her. She isn’t going to be happy is you take more vacations with your boys than her. She isn’t going to be happy if she never has alone time because you won’t watch the kids for a weekend. She sure as hell isnt going to be happy if she finds out her husband went to a strip club through someone else. 

If we’re happy, we want you to be happy. If we’re not happy, we want you to be unhappy.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

TimTut22 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm going through many difficulties with my relationship presently, but one that is coming up is a guys golf trip I have brought up. I'm asking for some advice.
> My wife and I have been married for about 5.5 years, and in that time I have taken 3 trips where I have been away from home: 2 of them are an overnight for an alumni golf tournament for my college baseball team, and 1 was my best friend's bachelor party to Arizona for 3 nights. Other than that, I have not spent a night away from the family (we have a 17 year old and a 4.5 year old).
> ...


Guys (or gals only) trips are healthy, and I believe necessary!

Guys need to bi*** about their wives, lives, and work. They need to drink beer, fart, and belch without constraints. You should go and have fun. Its good to catch up and collaborate about motors, titanium clubs, or boobs. 

And she should feel free to go have fun with her friends without guilt. We do all the same amount of bi***ing about our spouses when its just us. 

Go and have fun! And if she wines, bring her a little gift or something.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

TimTut22 said:


> I didn't not tell her anything, nor was I hiding it. Do you tell your husband about every single conversation you have with every friend all the time? That would be exhausting. It was a friend going through a hard time, and I was trying to help her out. I did, we ended the conversation. No flirting, no follow-up conversations, nothing. So if it was a guy it's different? Or if she was unattractive it's different?


I would tell my partner if I reached out to a new man, or If a new man reached out to me. Just because it’s usually nothing, but from the outside it looks way worse and I think the surprise almost feels like a lie or decit. 

I have been on the receiving end of what looks like sketchy behavior, and that stuff really eats away at your trust and love. Trust me it’s easier and less damaging if you just let your spouse know.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

My feeling is your wife still remembers your trip to the strip club, which you failed to mention to her. She may have lost some trust for you after that incident. OTOH I was fine with my husband taking his yearly golf trip to Myrtle Beach. He loved the game and got to spend time with some of the guys he only saw once a year during those trips. 

Frankly, I don't agree with your wife questioning why you want to take these sort of trips. I mean, duh, you love to play golf. Does your wife ever go out for the evening with her friends? Go on shopping trips with them? Does she have any hobbies/interests that don't include you?


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I would tell my partner if I reached out to a new man, or If a new man reached out to me. Just because it’s usually nothing, but from the outside it looks way worse and I think the surprise almost feels like a lie or decit.
> 
> I have been on the receiving end of what looks like sketchy behavior, and that stuff really eats away at your trust and love. Trust me it’s easier and less damaging if you just let your spouse know.





Girl_power said:


> I would tell my partner if I reached out to a new man, or If a new man reached out to me. Just because it’s usually nothing, but from the outside it looks way worse and I think the surprise almost feels like a lie or decit.
> 
> I have been on the receiving end of what looks like sketchy behavior, and that stuff really eats away at your trust and love. Trust me it’s easier and less damaging if you just let your spouse know.


Ok that's fair. I guess I just didn't think about it that way.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> My feeling is your wife still remembers your trip to the strip club, which you failed to mention to her. She may have lost some trust for you after that incident. OTOH I was fine with my husband taking his yearly golf trip to Myrtle Beach. He loved the game and got to spend time with some of the guys he only saw once a year during those trips.
> 
> Frankly, I don't agree with your wife questioning why you want to take these sort of trips. I mean, duh, you love to play golf. Does your wife ever go out for the evening with her friends? Go on shopping trips with them? Does she have any hobbies/interests that don't include you?


She does. I understand her concern, but that was 6 years ago at this point, and at what point do you forgive and forget? Mind you my wife and I didn't get married until we were 35, and I really hadn't been in more than one relationship that really mattered...so I learned my lesson, and now I would hope after 6 years I would've gained that trust back.

My wife rarely if ever goes out with her friends. Our neighborhood ladies have a weekly "book club" night every Tuesday for an hour or two, but she comes up with excuses not to go a lot. She will go out with a friend maybe once every 2-3 months, but she doesn't have a lot of close friends here, frankly because she hasn't allowed herself to. Honestly, she doesn't really have any hobbies. I would say her kids and her family are her only real hobbies, she doesn't ever do anything for herself.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

TimTut22 said:


> She does. I understand her concern, but that was 6 years ago at this point, and at what point do you forgive and forget? Mind you my wife and I didn't get married until we were 35, and I really hadn't been in more than one relationship that really mattered...so I learned my lesson, and now I would hope after 6 years I would've gained that trust back.
> 
> My wife rarely if ever goes out with her friends. Our neighborhood ladies have a weekly "book club" night every Tuesday for an hour or two, but she comes up with excuses not to go a lot. She will go out with a friend maybe once every 2-3 months, but she doesn't have a lot of close friends here, frankly because she hasn't allowed herself to. Honestly, she doesn't really have any hobbies. I would say her kids and her family are her only real hobbies, she doesn't ever do anything for herself.


I think many women are like this. And many need a little encouragement/shove in the right direction. I think it’s worth having a conversation with her about. Encouraging her to get into new hobbies and try new things and get a life outside the baby. Of course you will have to be there to watch the child while she tries these new things. But it will be good for both of you if she got out more.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I think many women are like this. And many need a little encouragement/shove in the right direction. I think it’s worth having a conversation with her about. Encouraging her to get into new hobbies and try new things and get a life outside the baby. Of course you will have to be there to watch the child while she tries these new things. But it will be good for both of you if she got out more.


Thank you. I've tried many times. We have a date night set up for Friday, to which that was something to talk about- now that are youngest is 4 and a half and is easier to handle, what do you want to do for yourself? What's one thing you haven't done as an adult that you really want to? I think because I was single until I was 34, and she had her son at 22, she has never thought about what she wants...so when I talk about something I want, it comes off as very selfish.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

A marriage is a relationship, not a prison sentence with a warden. Address her concerns as best you can, take the trip, and respect any mutually agreed upon boundaries - which might mean foregoing the strip club next time.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

Cletus said:


> A marriage is a relationship, not a prison sentence with a warden. Address her concerns as best you can, take the trip, and respect any mutually agreed upon boundaries - which might mean foregoing the strip club next time.


Haven't even been in one since the debacle 6 years ago. Funny thing is I didn't even go to strip clubs when I was single, complete waste of money IMO.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

TimTut22 said:


> I didn't not tell her anything, nor was I hiding it. Do you tell your husband about every single conversation you have with every friend all the time? That would be exhausting. It was a friend going through a hard time, and I was trying to help her out. I did, we ended the conversation. No flirting, no follow-up conversations, nothing. So if it was a guy it's different? Or if she was unattractive it's different?


You said you didn't tell her about the strip club, so you lie by omission. Generally, if it was a friend going through a divorce, my husband a. would know about it; b. he'd be there with me if I was having a convo by text about it, and if not, he'd definitely know about it. I never meant to imply you were flirting with the friend at all, but I just said imagine if shoe is on the other foot...I don't think you'd be so thrilled...no man would.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Every time you don’t go to one of those things you will slowly give your entire life away to your demanding wife. Little by little it will add up to more and more over time. Before you know it you will be hiding from your wife just to call one of them.

Take your balls back and tell your wife to stop being ridiculous. You are not her past husband.... but if she keeps it up you will start acting like him.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> You said you didn't tell her about the strip club, so you lie by omission. Generally, if it was a friend going through a divorce, my husband a. would know about it; b. he'd be there with me if I was having a convo by text about it, and if not, he'd definitely know about it. I never meant to imply you were flirting with the friend at all, but I just said imagine if shoe is on the other foot...I don't think you'd be so thrilled...no man would.


Yes I get it. I understand the lying by omission, we have that with our 17 year old almost on the daily. I know she doesn't know different, but I think there is a big mindset difference between omitting because you are hiding something, and omitting because you didn't think it was important. I guess my point in this is that we all make mistakes, and some are able to be forgiven and some are not based on the egregiousness of them. It was bad communication on my part 100%. but I've respected her wishes and not gone to them since. I talk to her about anything relevant in any message or phone conversation. I honestly at the time just didn't think it was relevant, I'm aware it is now. So with how much time since these situations took place, am I seriously going to have live with these forever?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

There is a possibility that you may live with them forever. Some women have extremely long memories.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I wouldn't trust you either if you were going to strip clubs on a boy's trip. So you need to assure her you won't be doing anything like that or going out carousing with the guys. If you can convince her of that and convince yourself of it, then you should be able to go on trips. But yeah, any woman would have a trust issue over a boy's trip that ended up at a strip club. The damage is done.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

TimTut22 said:


> Yes I get it. I understand the lying by omission, we have that with our 17 year old almost on the daily. I know she doesn't know different, but I think there is a big mindset difference between omitting because you are hiding something, and omitting because you didn't think it was important. I guess my point in this is that we all make mistakes, and some are able to be forgiven and some are not based on the egregiousness of them. It was bad communication on my part 100%. but I've respected her wishes and not gone to them since. I talk to her about anything relevant in any message or phone conversation. I honestly at the time just didn't think it was relevant, I'm aware it is now. So with how much time since these situations took place, am I seriously going to have live with these forever?


I certainly hope not. Has your wife ever seen a psychologist? It may do wonders for her self-esteem issues. I think it would benefit her to go and try it out.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Completely acceptable for me. My girls only trips are great reset for me, and I am coming back more relaxed, with more energy and happy to see my family. 

We all need some down time once in a while, when we do not have to worry about anyone else, outing like this provides that


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

The fact that her former husband cheated a lot, and the fact that you havent helped her to trust you what with the trip to the strip club(which you didnt tell her about) and the contact with the other woman(which you also didnt tell her about) makes it understandable that she isnt keen for you to go and cant trust what you tell her. I am not against trips alone per say, it depends what they are and what goes on while there. Things like parties should be for both of you, not sure why you couldnt both go to that? Sports fine, going to bars, parties, geting drunk, going to strip clubs no way.
We rarely go away without the other and honestly dont feel the need. We have both had the occasional weekend away seperately to Christian events, and he on a couple of Christian mens weekends but thats it. Otherwise we go away together.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I think it's healthy for a relationship to have a little bit of space and have individual interests or hobbies.

My husband and I like to travel. Sometimes he goes away internationally with his friends. I have no problem with this. He comes back recharged and relaxed, his mood is different and he seems happy to have a break from everything at home. 

Your wife might have insecurities because of her previous marriage but like you said it, it's been 6 years! Why hasn't she moved on? You can asked her what are her reasons for not trusting you now a days. 

She needs to find a hobby. It's not healthy for women to focus all their attention on their families. Children become independent, they grow up and leave the nest. She needs to find something fun for her to do by herself. It's not healthy to try to control or police your spouse. That's not a way to live.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

You have gotten a lot of good advice, and I think you are on the right track. Be mindful of her feelings.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I can't see an issue with you going away with your mates for 2-3 days once in a blue moon, I wouldn't have an issue with my husband doing that. Not at all.

I do find it odd that your friend who's 40th it was, only invited his mates, not their wives - don't you find that a bit strange?

I personally am not big on gno, or trips away, just not for me. Hubby would never stop me, but it's just not something I want to do. My trips away are only ever 2 nights at most, and almost always to do with my dog rescue. Me and our Treasurer hire a car, head interstate, gather up dogs and crash at a cheap motel eating cheap take away, gas bagging all the way over, the whole time we're there and all the way back with a car full of dogs 🤣


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

GC1234 said:


> Honestly it depends...I wouldn't mind if my husband goes away, but he doesn't...BUT he would very much mind if I went away...see the double standard there?
> 
> Not a double standard at all. If he thought it was OK for him to go but not you...then that is double. If he does not go then he holds the same standard. Yours is just different than his.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

You totally screwed yourself by

1. Not telling your W you went to a strip club on one of these little vacays; and
2. Talking to your female friend about her divorce without telling your wife, knowing your wife's exH cheated on her.

How did she find out about the strip club?

Come on. You can't be that naive to not know both of those together look really super bad. That _looks_ like some shady **** right there.

I'm a bit offended by those who say your wife needs to get a hobby--no, she needs to be able to trust her husband!

Listen, I'm pretty GGG. I have zero issue with strip clubs if I am included. Why should my H get to have all the fun? We both should get excited and then go home to Poundtown. But alone? That's a big ol bag o nope.

If my H left me in the dark about those two things and he brought up a boys' trip again, I'd be appalled at him having the balls to even ask. I'd immediately think those trips are of The Hangover variety.

Yeah, yeah, it's been 6 years. So what? Her scars run deep. You can't unring that bell.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Yes, that's what I wrote (or so I thought). I wouldn't mind if he went away (he just chooses not to). If I were to try to go away with friends on the other hand, he wouldn't like it. Maybe the way I wrote it was wrong, but that's how I meant it.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Oh wait, I misread your answer. I see what you mean. I still think it's a double standard b/c he would be able to go, but I would not. But thank God my husband doesn't do the strip clubs and vacations with friends lol


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I think you screwed the pooch on the strip club. It's a hard road to come back from that.
As far as the phone issue, if I reach out to other people, my wife knows about it. The other night, between texting and a phone call, I was on the phone over three hours with my former secretary. We were catching up, she was telling me everything that was going on at work since I retired. My wife was 20' away and could hear everything. There was nothing secretive about it. In your case, it became threatening because she found out about it after the fact.
As far as the trip, it should be acceptable in a healthy marriage.
In the 26 years of my marriage, my wife and I have had two trips apart. 
She went to some Jane Austen thing in Kentucky with a girlfriend overnight, and she took a cruise with her family. I was invited on the cruise, and her dad pleaded with me to go, but I couldn't get away from work. I took two trips: to Delaware and Illinois for a total of four nights. With the exception of the cruise, all the trips took place during one summer. She made it clear to me that it would be her preference not to do separate trips again, not because of distrust, but because she missed me.
In my case, I would probably try to hook up with friends for daily events and minimize several day events, or try to include the spouses into the trips. If you go on the golf trip, it would help if you were more transparent about your activities and check in frequently.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

lucy999 said:


> You totally screwed yourself by
> 
> 1. Not telling your W you went to a strip club on one of these little vacays; and
> 2. Talking to your female friend about her divorce without telling your wife, knowing your wife's exH cheated on her.
> ...


I don't disagree with you on this, but a couple points for timeline:
1. Not telling about the strip club- Again I wasn't trying to hide anything, I just didn't think of it as a big deal. We were not married when this happened, just dating, and had no conversations about strip clubs or she felt about it. She did ask why I didn't ask her how she felt before I went in there...to which I said 1. It wasn't some grand plan, we just happened to walk by on the way to a bar and stopped in there, and 2. I didn't really think to stop and make a call to her while standing outside of it to see how she felt about it. I guess I don't understand the mistrust, considering we had never had a conversation about her not liking strip clubs at this point of our relationship. And again, I have never stepped foot in one again. Not one time since we have been married.
2. I get that, I heard that from other threads from wives/spouses. I'm not naive about anything...I guess I'm just different in that I don't get jealous or anxious about situations. You want to talk to another dude? Cool, you can have guy friends. Go for it. So I saw it as innocent, because that's what it was. 

So about unringing that bell about deep scars...so what you are saying because of a miscommunication from 6 years ago (I did not lie to her and say I wasn't there when I was, it never came up), I'm no longer allowed to go play golf? It seems a bit unjust to me. And as far as trusting your husband goes, if she can't trust me after this much time, she never will. And if that's the case, I'm wasting my time. No one wants to be in a relationship without trust.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I wouldn't trust you either if you were going to strip clubs on a boy's trip. So you need to assure her you won't be doing anything like that or going out carousing with the guys. If you can convince her of that and convince yourself of it, then you should be able to go on trips. But yeah, any woman would have a trust issue over a boy's trip that ended up at a strip club. The damage is done.


Not going to a strip club. It happened one time 6 years ago before we were married. I honestly don't think she is worried about the strip club anymore; it's more that I won't tell her exactly what we are doing. When I say golfing and drinking, which is what will happen, she won't believe me. So I guess the other 7 married guys get to go, and I will stay home.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Some people really keep their spouses on short leash. Come on, strip club six years ago, once. Conversation with a woman, all cleared by now. And now he can not do anything by himself for the rest of his life? Lifetime prison sentence? I'd say your wife needs to work a little bit on herself. I understand that she had bad experience in the past, but I do not think you are asking about anything frivolous.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TimTut22 said:


> Not going to a strip club. It happened one time 6 years ago before we were married. I honestly don't think she is worried about the strip club anymore; it's more that I won't tell her exactly what we are doing. When I say golfing and drinking, which is what will happen, she won't believe me. So I guess the other 7 married guys get to go, and I will stay home.


Well, are these some of the same guys who took you to a strip club before, though?


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, are these some of the same guys who took you to a strip club before, though?


Only one of the guys. The time I went before was in my college town for an alumni golf event for our college baseball team. There were probably 40 guys that went in there, ages ranging 25 to probably 55. All telling stories about playing ball in college. This is a golf trip with 7 other married guys to golf resort essentially in the middle of nowhere in northern Minnesota.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Some people really keep their spouses on short leash. Come on, strip club six years ago, once. Conversation with a woman, all cleared by now. And now he can not do anything by himself for the rest of his life? Lifetime prison sentence? I'd say your wife needs to work a little bit on herself. I understand that she had bad experience in the past, but I do not think you are asking about anything frivolous.


Thank you. I didn't think so either. But from this thread you can see the differences in opinion.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I think you need to have a sit down conversation with your wife. "Honey, I understand that you worry about my guys trip. I want you to know that I love you and cherish you and I will not do anything that would hurt you and jeopardize our marriage. I am really looking forward to these few days I'd spent with guys and play some golf. I will call/text you on regular basis. We can discuss what should be out of bounds, so you feel more comfortable.If, in the future, you'd like to go on girls trip, I will take care of our kids and fully support you".


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TimTut22 said:


> Only one of the guys. The time I went before was in my college town for an alumni golf event for our college baseball team. There were probably 40 guys that went in there, ages ranging 25 to probably 55. All telling stories about playing ball in college. This is a golf trip with 7 other married guys to golf resort essentially in the middle of nowhere in northern Minnesota.



Well, as long it's the one guy that's going to go isn't perceived as the "ring leader" or "chief carouser," let her know that it's a different group. If most of them are married, let her know, though I know that just makes some guys cheat more when traveling without wives, so...

Good luck.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

TimTut22 said:


> I don't disagree with you on this, but a couple points for timeline:
> 1. Not telling about the strip club- Again I wasn't trying to hide anything, I just didn't think of it as a big deal. We were not married when this happened, just dating, and had no conversations about strip clubs or she felt about it. She did ask why I didn't ask her how she felt before I went in there...to which I said 1. It wasn't some grand plan, we just happened to walk by on the way to a bar and stopped in there, and 2. I didn't really think to stop and make a call to her while standing outside of it to see how she felt about it. I guess I don't understand the mistrust, considering we had never had a conversation about her not liking strip clubs at this point of our relationship. And again, I have never stepped foot in one again. Not one time since we have been married.
> 2. I get that, I heard that from other threads from wives/spouses. I'm not naive about anything...I guess I'm just different in that I don't get jealous or anxious about situations. You want to talk to another dude? Cool, you can have guy friends. Go for it. So I saw it as innocent, because that's what it was.
> 
> So about unringing that bell about deep scars...so what you are saying because of a miscommunication from 6 years ago (I did not lie to her and say I wasn't there when I was, it never came up), I'm no longer allowed to go play golf? It seems a bit unjust to me. And as far as trusting your husband goes, if she can't trust me after this much time, she never will. And if that's the case, I'm wasting my time. No one wants to be in a relationship without trust.


Maybe I missed the part where you said you were only dating and not married when you went to the strip club, and I apologize if that's the case. If you didn't say it until just now, details like these matter. I'm usually not one to parse things out to death, but this changes things in my eyes. 

I'm am glad, though, that you see how the phone call to your female friend _while in the throes of a divorce_ is not a good look. It's just not.

No, it shouldn't be a lifetime prison sentence. And of course you should be able to play golf. But you _should_ ask your wife what would assuage her panic and fear should you go on these trips. I mean really have a sit down come to Jebus talk with her and listen and ask questions. What can you do to make her feel comfortable when you go on these trips?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Have you had that conversation (that you can’t spend the rest of your life being held hostage to two long-ago acts)? If not then you need to because she likely doesn’t see the problem. If you have — and nothing has changed — then it‘s time to really get this fixed or else get used to your life being this way.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

GC1234 said:


> Oh wait, I misread your answer. I see what you mean. I still think it's a double standard b/c he would be able to go, but I would not. But thank God my husband doesn't do the strip clubs and vacations with friends lol


But he may not think its right to do so. I would not and thanfully my wife would not either. If one goes we both go. I chose to not have a batchelor party either, i would not go to club, BNO, etc. when the only woman i want is at the house. Same as your man, my standard is same for her as for and myself.
Then again my wife and i are the couple who wishes we worked together so we could spend all our time together.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I've been kicking this one around for a bit. Certainly there are different philosophies on separate trips, but I agree in general that a trip with the girls or guys here and there shouldn't be a big deal.

It's clear there are trust issues here, and i wonder if its at least in part to your wife feeling that you guys have different value systems and you decide on your own what's a big deal. 

So she never really knows if you've done nothing she would find objectionable or you've done something SHE might find objectionable but haven't told her because you deem it no big deal. That has the potential to open up all kinds of cans.

You might think it no big deal that you spoke to another woman about personal matters, but by deciding by yourself that it's no big deal and keeping it from your wife you make it a big deal.

Such a conversation is something I've had with male friends but I'd never keep that from my SO because I don't want to create the appearance of impropriety. I'll tell him "hey I talked to X....he's having a hard time....i gave this advice"...then I'd watch to see if he displayed discomfort. If so we may need to talk further.

Whay WILL create issues is when you don't share something and then your partner finds out about it on their own.

So this begs the question of if these things are no big deal why not tell her? When you keep things from her you send the message that it actually is a big deal.

Have you tried asking your wife about conditions for this trip she might be ok with? It might open the door to a negotiation that results in something you can both live with.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've been kicking this one around for a bit. Certainly there are different philosophies on separate trips, but I agree in general that a trip with the girls or guys here and there shouldn't be a big deal.
> 
> It's clear there are trust issues here, and i wonder if its at least in part to your wife feeling that you guys have different value systems and you decide on your own what's a big deal.
> 
> ...


Thanks for putting thought into this, I truly appreciate it. Yes there are trust issues, some of which I can't control (her ex-hub being a horrible human being) and some I can (being completely transparent). As far as your question about I didn't tell her- I can't recall what we were doing during that time...but my guess is when it happened we were busy with something, then I forgot about it. She saw the messages like 3 months after it happened when she looked through my phone. I clearly wasn't trying to hide anything. But totally understand the not telling her...since thing I've taken the stance to not even engage anyone in conversation, ha. We have busy work lives and family lives, so it's just easier that way. Conditions of the trip? A bit yes. First it was because of COVID, and not wanting to get it. Then it was "why don't you want to take a family trip instead, why isn't that more important?" We did. We had a Hawaii trip and a trip for us two to Maine wiped out by COVID. Not much I can do about that. Her suggestion was to golfing around here for a day. Unfortunately it's not my call, those guys are going anyway, with or without me. Every guy going is married with kids, we are just looking to get away to golf and play some cards.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, as long it's the one guy that's going to go isn't perceived as the "ring leader" or "chief carouser," let her know that it's a different group. If most of them are married, let her know, though I know that just makes some guys cheat more when traveling without wives, so...
> 
> Good luck.


What if a "ring leader" wants to enjoy a golfing trip with his buddies? If that person decides to do whatever he/she wants to do it doesn't mean every spouse is going to follow his/her lead. Is the OP in High School? Come on.

People cheat when they want to cheat. People don't even have to leave the house to cheat!!!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

That's true and they don't need to go on vacation to cheat. I can easily cheat if they leave for work 15 minutes early or on a lunch break.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

TimTut22 said:


> Not going to a strip club. It happened one time 6 years ago before we were married. I honestly don't think she is worried about the strip club anymore; it's more that I won't tell her exactly what we are doing. When I say golfing and drinking, which is what will happen, she won't believe me. So I guess the other 7 married guys get to go, and I will stay home.


Yeah, that's not fair. You cant be expected to give her an exact, down to the minute schedule, or have to report in every time something changes, that's exhausting.' A general rundown yes - we're going golfing and fishing. That said, if someone did want to go to a strip club, I would _hope _that my husband would sit that out. I wouldn't tell him not to go, or punish him for going, but I would be hurt and disappointed.




WandaJ said:


> Some people really keep their spouses on short leash. Come on, strip club six years ago, once. Conversation with a woman, all cleared by now. And now he can not do anything by himself for the rest of his life? Lifetime prison sentence? I'd say your wife needs to work a little bit on herself. I understand that she had bad experience in the past, but I do not think you are asking about anything frivolous.


All of this.

I also don't see what all the others being married has to do with it. You're an adult, with your own values, I'm sure you're capable to saying no to something you feel wouldn't be good for your marriage lol.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

In these 5.5 years how many trips have you taken just her and you, no kids or anyone else. 
My husband does not do these types of trips because he'd rather spend time with me. I guess I would be ok if he did this occasionally but I wouldn't be ok if me and him never did these trips. Also you can golf with her around. So it kinda seems like a boys weekend which can certainly go sideways like at strip clubs, too much booze and are any of the people you are going with single or unhappily married?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> are any of the people you are going with single or unhappily married?


Why does that matter? Either she trusts her husband or she doesn't.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

frusdil said:


> Why does that matter? Either she trusts her husband or she doesn't.


Well yes perhaps she is having trust issues as discussed. It is hard to tell why she is having issues with this. Right now we don't have enough information. Is it her being jealous that she doesn't get these trips with her husband? It could also be expense. It could be she is worried about continued bad behavior like strip clubs or messaging women. There could be even more unknown knowledge like is he a recovering alcoholic and she's worried about the amount of drinking or his safety.

Don't know why you care that I ask a question.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Woman's perspective here!

I don't love guy's trips because my husband's friends lose their minds the second they leave home. They are like loose apes running around a zoo. I dont worry about women or anything like that, but I worry about their safety and decision making. Things have improved as they've gotten older, so I care less and less. Your strip club adventure during that golf trip reminds me of my husband's trips....so I get her point. With that being said, your wife clearly has trust issues of her own from being cheated on. You may not have cheated, but withholding the truth about the strip club put that little grain of doubt in her mind. Its not about the strip club, but more about that feeling of the person she loves "lusting" or straying from her again. 

Lastly, texting your friend for comfort is totally crossing marital lines. I would be PISSED if I saw my husband texting some woman I do not know to comfort her about divorce. This is a woman looking for emotional fulfilment and affection....not appropriate for you to comfort anyone other than your wife in that way. Omission feels worse than lying by the way - if you told her about the conversation, she probably wouldn't have cared.

Id suggest talking about boundaries with her if you want these trips to be a thing in the future. Talk about things that make her feel stressed, agree to boundaries, and start off with a small trip.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Oh my.... Soon to be divorced, I’d better maje sure that my potential future partner is ok with this kind of trips. I am not giving up my ladies trips for anyone!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well yes perhaps she is having trust issues as discussed. It is hard to tell why she is having issues with this. Right now we don't have enough information. Is it her being jealous that she doesn't get these trips with her husband? It could also be expense. It could be she is worried about continued bad behavior like strip clubs or messaging women. There could be even more unknown knowledge like is he a recovering alcoholic and she's worried about the amount of drinking or his safety.
> 
> Don't know why you care that I ask a question.


Deleted


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TimTut22 said:


> She does. I understand her concern, but that was 6 years ago at this point, and at what point do you forgive and forget? Mind you my wife and I didn't get married until we were 35, and I really hadn't been in more than one relationship that really mattered...so I learned my lesson, and now I would hope after 6 years I would've gained that trust back.
> 
> My wife rarely if ever goes out with her friends. Our neighborhood ladies have a weekly "book club" night every Tuesday for an hour or two, but she comes up with excuses not to go a lot. She will go out with a friend maybe once every 2-3 months, but she doesn't have a lot of close friends here, frankly because she hasn't allowed herself to. Honestly, she doesn't really have any hobbies. I would say her kids and her family are her only real hobbies, she doesn't ever do anything for herself.


Could you send her to a local spa for a day as a gift?

She is always home with the kids and that is her comfort zone. The longer it goes on the more she just wants to be home. She can’t understand why you don’t want to spend every moment you can with her and the kids.

Did she get any therapy after her last marriage. It could be that she is seeing similar behavior in you that her ex had. The helping the female friend being one of them. I see nothing wrong in helping a long time friend. Your wife sees it as one of the lies her ex told her to hide a affair. It is a trigger for her.

I really think IC would be a good idea for her. Then some marriage counseling for the two of you. You need to see things through her eyes because of what see went through. She just can’t help seeing you do the same things as her ex.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Talking with the female friend is not a big deal. You didn’t hide it. You didn’t delete it. You don’t have your phone locked to where she can’t get in it.

Your wife needs help with her trust issues or it will end up destroying the relationship.

I know my wife has talked with male and female friends over the years. No big deal. None of it has ever been flirtation. I have done electrical work for female friends and my wife was ok with it.

Trust is the biggest issue here. Your wife has none because of her past experiences.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Past cheating EXs wreak havoc on next marriage. Several times i had to tell my wife, "I am not your damn ex-husband" . About year 5 or 6 she started getting really...i dont know what you could call it! It took about 3-4 yrs for her to get it out of her system. May be about the same time frame her Ex started cheating on her. I have many, many scars in vulnerable areas due to miss trust in men and her anger at ex hubby being projected on me.
Now our marriage is happier and stronger than most couples we know. We are pasr 23 yrs and last 5 have been like the Honeymoon Phase again.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> In these 5.5 years how many trips have you taken just her and you, no kids or anyone else.
> My husband does not do these types of trips because he'd rather spend time with me. I guess I would be ok if he did this occasionally but I wouldn't be ok if me and him never did these trips. Also you can golf with her around. So it kinda seems like a boys weekend which can certainly go sideways like at strip clubs, too much booze and are any of the people you are going with single or unhappily married?


We've taken 3 trips alone, and another one canceled this summer due to COVID. One before we had our daughter (she is 4), and one a year the last 2 years. We took 2 family trips in the first 2 years of our daughter being born, and now haven't done anything this year because of COVID. So between what we do alone and with the family, it's about 2 trips a year. 
No none of the people are single or unhappily married, at least not that I'm aware of. As far as the comment about "he'd rather spend time with me," a few other ladies have said that too. That makes me cringe a little because it makes me sound like I don't want to be with my wife. That's just ridiculous. I've spent a total of 6 nights away from my wife in 5.5 years. 3 for the alumni trip (which a lot of the married ladies get together that night and hang out anyway), and the bachelor party in AZ for 3 nights.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

TimTut22 said:


> We've taken 3 trips alone, and another one canceled this summer due to COVID. One before we had our daughter (she is 4), and one a year the last 2 years. We took 2 family trips in the first 2 years of our daughter being born, and now haven't done anything this year because of COVID. So between what we do alone and with the family, it's about 2 trips a year.
> No none of the people are single or unhappily married, at least not that I'm aware of. As far as the comment about "he'd rather spend time with me," a few other ladies have said that too. That makes me cringe a little because it makes me sound like I don't want to be with my wife. That's just ridiculous. I've spent a total of 6 nights away from my wife in 5.5 years. 3 for the alumni trip (which a lot of the married ladies get together that night and hang out anyway), and the bachelor party in AZ for 3 nights.


You don't have to cringe. It doesn't mean you don't love your wife. 

It just means that for my husband his love language is time together and physical touch. He'd prefer to spend times with me. That's him it doesn't mean it has to be you. But we find that with the daily grind and usual commitments we actually don't have much time to just be with each other. So we look forward to those days together. 

But do you know your wife's love language? When you talk about these trip what is her comments? You can just do whatever you want or you can try to figure out what is causing her issues. Of course you could take the angle it's ridiculous and that she has no valid concerns but I don't think that is going to improve your marriage any.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TimTut22 said:


> We've taken 3 trips alone, and another one canceled this summer due to COVID. One before we had our daughter (she is 4), and one a year the last 2 years. We took 2 family trips in the first 2 years of our daughter being born, and now haven't done anything this year because of COVID. So between what we do alone and with the family, it's about 2 trips a year.
> No none of the people are single or unhappily married, at least not that I'm aware of. As far as the comment about "he'd rather spend time with me," a few other ladies have said that too. That makes me cringe a little because it makes me sound like I don't want to be with my wife. That's just ridiculous. I've spent a total of 6 nights away from my wife in 5.5 years. 3 for the alumni trip (which a lot of the married ladies get together that night and hang out anyway), and the bachelor party in AZ for 3 nights.


How many nights has she spent away from you? I have a feeling that is the crux of the problem.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> How many nights has she spent away from you? I have a feeling that is the crux of the problem.


Other than traveling for work,one. She has been asked to attend girls' nights or meet with some her close friends that live 4-5 hours away, but she always comes up with a reason not to go or just flat out says no.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Because she doesn't want you to go. You should go anyway and tell her she should go. People shouldn't just be glued to each other. They should maintain friendships.


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## TimTut22 (Aug 12, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> You don't have to cringe. It doesn't mean you don't love your wife.
> 
> It just means that for my husband his love language is time together and physical touch. He'd prefer to spend times with me. That's him it doesn't mean it has to be you. But we find that with the daily grind and usual commitments we actually don't have much time to just be with each other. So we look forward to those days together.
> 
> But do you know your wife's love language? When you talk about these trip what is her comments? You can just do whatever you want or you can try to figure out what is causing her issues. Of course you could take the angle it's ridiculous and that she has no valid concerns but I don't think that is going to improve your marriage any.


I wasn't saying it's ridiculous she has concerns, I meant it was ridiculous that since I like to golf with my friends I somehow don't want to be with her.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, I think the real problem here is that you and your wife have very different ideas about what should and should not be going on in a marriage. She, clearly, doesn't think a spouse going away with friends is okay. You're fine with it. 

As frustrating, unfair, even crazy as you clearly feel she's being here, in reality _neither of you is wrong_. This is not an issue where she is wrong and you are right. You two simply have different boundaries. 

This is really a point of incompatibility. One that should, ideally, have really been considered prior to your marriage. Since that ship has sailed, it's probably time to get some professional help from a good MC on how to handle this issue.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I agree with several folks' advice and I'm thinking this point of contention has exploded into you considering separation if not more. WOW. You think you are in a jail of sorts? She should feel loved and, because of her past, she overreacts and you stiffen and its on! I'll bet y'all have had the same argument over and over saying the same thing and you both are thinking what you are going to say (here we go again) rather than listening and reflecting. I think her excuse is just that, but she may not be aware of its result.

Perhaps, she has forgiven, but not forgotten. You say "I haven't stepped inside strip club since marriage." But then 'secretly' calling a new divorcee is worse. It's easy to say you didn't think it important, but why not? Are you thinking like a married man who knows his wife has triggers? She literally feels pain in her fears.

What kind of life did you lead before marriage? Were you a player?? Party animal? Flirt? What would a friend have described you as?

Could she be worrying not as a matter of distrust, but more trying to protect her love and marriage? Psychologists talk about how folks react differently in a group than they would alone. Look up group influence and group think. Many folks--men and women--forget their foundational morals when they drink too much or are with teasing, taunting friends.

I agree marriage counseling would be helpful. Your underlying resentment is coming into play and y'all need outside help.


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