# What women want on dating sites



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I've been checking out dating sites lately, and it's the same thing as when I checked before. Most every woman writes about how weird the men are on the sites. Some of the quotes are: "so tired of cheaters and liers," "are there no normal men left?" "Don't send me nude pics," "not interested in hook ups." I'm sure you get the picture. 

So, whether it be real world or dating site, my question is, "why are women not lining up at the doors of the "normal guys?" There still are some guys out there who aren't just looking to play games and treat women like dirt.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

One thing I suggest every online dater do is look at your competition. Go in your search settings (or create a stealth profile) and search for men in your age group, + and - five years on each end. Don't put in any other filters, just the age range. Then look at the pictures, scroll through them all, get a feel for who else women are dating who might be similar to you.

A stealth profile is easier to do this with because a lot of sites will not let you browse profiles without them seeing you...and it can be awkward when a guy sees you've clicked his profile....but find a way to do it and read profiles of men who you feel are in the same attractiveness range as you are, based only on pictures. From there, please take a mental inventory of the profiles and what they say. First of all, you will immediately see many "no drama queens", "if you're looking for a meal ticket, move along", "no one who is married but separated, BTDT", "PLEASE have RECENT pictures, I will NOT be cat fished again!", and so on.

Try to take a special look at what you would consider "normal" guys. See what is normal about them in their profile and see if it would attract your sister or a woman you respect. 

This is all just to collect data for yourself, so you have a much wider picture of the whole online dating world.

At a glance it may seem that women over look wonderful "normal" guys all the time. But in my experience, any guy who appears "normal" but has any of the above volatile type of messages in his profile, is going to be bitter - at least a little bit. And that is too much for me (as you have said, you don't like women who display this bitterness either". Also, I've chatted back and forth with several "normal" guys who quickly became hostile toward me if I didn't answer fast enough or in a way they liked. I do not paint other "normal" guys with the same brush, but I'm just saying to you that a guy friend of yours who seems like a totally "normal" guy who can't get lucky could very possibly come across as very bitter and rude to women online.

What do I want at online dating myself....

At times I have just wanted a make out buddy.

At times I have just wanted a boyfriend, but not wanting a long term commitment necessarily.

At times I have wanted a relationship with all the bells and whistles.

At all of these different times, I have been honest in my profile of what I wanted, and I would skip past guys who didn't fit with what I was looking for (ie: if a man said he was ready for marriage on his profile and I just wanted a make out buddy, I would not date him). Not everyone is self-aware enough (men and women) to truly know what they are looking for. And others may be looking for one thing but would change all of that in an instant if they "met the right person". That last group I found were actually the least reliable to be good partners, oddly enough (just my experience, no clue if it is common).

When I have a profile, I usually don't put any picture up. I do say "will be happy to exchange pictures if there is enough mutual interest". I describe myself as fun and sexy, and tell a little about myself and where I'm at in life and what I'm looking for at that time. I'm pretty brief, but there is a bit of mystery to my profile, too. Then I go and look at men's profiles who I think are attractive. This way, no man will ever actually find my profile in a search (no one searches for profiles with no pictures), and ONLY men I find attractive (enough to open their profile) will even see that I exist because they will see I visited their profile.

Sometimes men are intrigued enough by my profile to message me and of course, ask what it takes to see some pictures. Which I completely understand. If I wasn't that impressed by their profile after I read through it, I might not answer. But if I did like what I saw, I will strike up more conversation and text or email pictures to them. From there, it's a quick move to meet for coffee...or in some cases we do keep chatting for a while but nothing ever comes of it. I don't actually mind that, sometimes. If I really wanted to meet a guy for coffee and he wasn't stepping up, I'd say "ok nice chatting and good luck in dating!" and move on. But if he wasn't all that much my type and I didn't have any hopes up about him, and if he is fun and funny and polite in chatting, I don't mind just chatting for awhile and it going nowhere. If people don't have time for that, I get it...but sometimes it is fun for me. I just get into asking them how the dating scene is going for them and other questions. A lot of times this is how I get the best dating stories.

Sometimes a guy is interesting enough to me for me to message him first. Once in awhile they don't answer due to lack of picture, I assume, but they usually do answer. Out of curiosity mostly, but I've never talked to one that was disappointed in my pictures. I think I have a decent feel for who I could potentially feel mutual attraction with, so if I was attracted to them, they are typically also attracted to me.

This has been a good strategy for me because I only end up talking to men *I* found attractive *first*, and I don't have to waste anyone's time who may be looking at my profile and sending me messages I will never answer (which is what happens if I have pictures posted).


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

To answer your question on what I was looking for: an intelligent, funny, mature, emotionally healthy, functional adult man who enjoyed my company and whose company I similarly enjoyed, who liked to do things I thought were fun, who liked to have good conversations, who had no young children, who had a clean record, a clean STD report, and no history of infidelity, who had beliefs and life goals similar to my own, and with whom I shared mutual sexual chemistry/attraction. I was clear that I wanted a relationship, but wasn't in any hurry and wasn't willing to settle just to have one. I also wasn't interested in a casual sexual relationship, and was clear about that as well. 

I actually met a nice number of very nice men who would have made someone a wonderful partner. They just weren't right for me, or I for them, and sometimes both. I also encountered more than a handful of men who just wanted to send me lewd messages or pictures of their genitals, just wanted a hook-up, were married, or just otherwise weren't ready for a healthy adult relationship. I encountered one who clearly had deep anger issues that he wasn't apparently interested in concealing. And I chatted for a bit with one man who I came to realize had some definite misogyny going on under his very charming exterior, and whom I was very glad never to have given much personal information to. It's definitely a mixed bag out there. 

A lot of people say they want normal, but are actually really attracted to crazy. A lot of people say they are, might even really believe they are, normal, but are actually crazy themselves. In my experience, people who are aggressive about saying they don't like drama, usually are the type who are drawn to drama. And a lot of people who insist that they're "normal" and "nice", are beset with unhealthy attitudes and behaviors. So, my rule was that I didn't make contact with men whose dating profiles loudly proclaimed their disdain for drama or expressed their irritation that women just don't seem to want nice, normal, men. If you're seeing something like that in a woman's profile, keep scrolling on by. People who are angry, resentful, bitter, frustrated, and lashing out at "dating" or at "men/women" aren't typically in a healthy emotional place from which to date. Don't look for people who tell you how "normal" they are, look for people who are just going about their lives actually _being _whatever passes for your/their brand of "normal".


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Rowan said:


> A lot of people say they want normal, but are actually really attracted to crazy. A lot of people say they are, might even really believe they are, normal, but are actually crazy themselves. In my experience, people who are aggressive about saying they don't like drama, usually are the type who are drawn to drama. And a lot of people who insist that they're "normal" and "nice", are beset with unhealthy attitudes and behaviors. So, my rule was that I didn't make contact with men whose dating profiles loudly proclaimed their disdain for drama or expressed their irritation that women just don't seem to want nice, normal, men. If you're seeing something like that in a woman's profile, keep scrolling on by. People who are angry, resentful, bitter, frustrated, and lashing out at "dating" or at "men/women" aren't typically in a healthy emotional place from which to date. Don't look for people who tell you how "normal" they are, look for people who are just going about their lives actually _being _whatever passes for your/their brand of "normal".


You make some great points; I feel the same way. I think there are plenty of normal guys out there who wouldn't cheat or treat a woman badly, but they probably lack a craziness in another area that women seem to want. I also agree that people who view themselves as normal are often a little unhealthy in their attitudes. 

I just get tired of reading about women wanting normal guys, but they would probably run in the other direction if they encountered a normal guy.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

southbound said:


> I've been checking out dating sites lately, and it's the same thing as when I checked before. Most every woman writes about how weird the men are on the sites. Some of the quotes are: "so tired of cheaters and liers," "are there no normal men left?" "Don't send me nude pics," "not interested in hook ups." I'm sure you get the picture.
> 
> So, whether it be real world or dating site, my question is, "why are women not lining up at the doors of the "normal guys?" There still are some guys out there who aren't just looking to play games and treat women like dirt.


"Normal" guys probably meet enough women in the real world that they're not on the dating sites.

Whether it's an online posting or any other form of communication, if an advertisement, or personal note is loaded with "I don't want guys that do this, and I don't want drama and please don't do this...." I pass. Why on Earth would a list of what a person or thing is NOT, give me any reason to contact them? Instead, talk to me about what you DO want or what your service DOES provide!


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> One thing I suggest every online dater do is look at your competition. Go in your search settings (or create a stealth profile) and search for men in your age group, + and - five years on each end. Don't put in any other filters, just the age range. Then look at the pictures, scroll through them all, get a feel for who else women are dating who might be similar to you.
> 
> A stealth profile is easier to do this with because a lot of sites will not let you browse profiles without them seeing you...and it can be awkward when a guy sees you've clicked his profile....but find a way to do it and read profiles of men who you feel are in the same attractiveness range as you are, based only on pictures. From there, please take a mental inventory of the profiles and what they say. First of all, you will immediately see many "no drama queens", "if you're looking for a meal ticket, move along", "no one who is married but separated, BTDT", "PLEASE have RECENT pictures, I will NOT be cat fished again!", and so on.
> 
> ...


Doesn't seem fair to me that you expect pics of guys for your convenience but you don't post any of yourself. I won't entertain profiles without pics. Seems like a wasted opportunity to me. If you're on site to meet people do everything to increase your chances.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Betrayedone said:


> Doesn't seem fair to me that you expect pics of guys for your convenience but you don't post any of yourself. I won't entertain profiles without pics. Seems like a wasted opportunity to me. *If you're on site to meet people do everything to increase your chances*.


I don't "expect" anyone to do anything, but most guys do have pics, so I look at their pics to determine if I feel attracted to them. What is "unfair" about me not having pics on my profile, and who is it "unfair" to? Some dudes I don't know who want to just browse profiles? Sorry, not my problem.

When I click on a guy's profile, they usually read mine even though I have no pics posted (you can see when someone has looked at your profile so I know when they look at mine after I've looked at theirs). Then if we message each other and there is mutual interest, I share my pics with them right away. If they don't message me after reading my profile with no pics, not a problem for me. I'm not worried or concerned about it.

As to the bolded, quite frankly I've never had any trouble meeting people, whether online or in person. I am a man magnet. So I don't have to "do anything" to increase my "chances". The chances that I'll meet a guy are always 100%. 

However, it actually *does* increase my chances of meeting someone online when I do NOT post pics on my profile, because when I DO post pictures I get so many messages from people I have no interest in that I quickly get overwhelmed, don't want to wade through them all, and end up not noticing guys who might actually interest me because their message gets buried so deep among the other messages.

Doing it my way, I am only talking to men I already know I find attractive, and they have pictures of me within 2 back and forth messages.

Whatever your problem is with my way of doing this obviously has nothing to do with me. I'm a very successful dater and always have been. This method for me (no pics on the profile) works the best for me. Not one man has ever been harmed by my not having pictures on an online dating profile! :laugh:


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't "expect" anyone to do anything, but most guys do have pics, so I look at their pics to determine if I feel attracted to them. What is "unfair" about me not having pics on my profile, and who is it "unfair" to? Some dudes I don't know who want to just browse profiles? Sorry, not my problem.
> 
> When I click on a guy's profile, they usually read mine even though I have no pics posted (you can see when someone has looked at your profile so I know when they look at mine after I've looked at theirs). Then if we message each other and there is mutual interest, I share my pics with them right away. If they don't message me after reading my profile with no pics, not a problem for me. I'm not worried or concerned about it.
> 
> ...


OK, got it.......It's all about you. You would have missed me, though........I hate to see anyone suffer needlessly............


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

@southbound, Do you live in a big city with lots of singles? Just join clubs and do the things that you like.

It was difficult for me to get excited over the profiles. So I just cancelled my membership.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Betrayedone said:


> OK, got it.......It's all about you. You would have missed me, though........I hate to see anyone suffer needlessly............



Um well, yes. MY dating life is all about ME. Should I instead make it about the 100,000 other online daters who I will never meet?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

LOL, makes perfect sense to me.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Knowing there is at least 1 supposed man magnet (I'll take you at your word!) with no pics it seems like an opportunity if one was trying to get through to give it a chance. I've heard women DO get overwhelmed with responses. One is giving you a hint on how to find a pool with a better chance, seems to be worth 2 messages to get a look.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

When i was on dating sites I was definitely looking for a decent guy with integrity and honesty and good values. There were quite a few (these were Christian sites). I have no idea why men think that sending a pic of their genitals is in ANY way appealing.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Excessive over confidence would probably be a red flag for me if I was using dating sites 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> When i was on dating sites I was definitely looking for a decent guy with integrity and honesty and good values. There were quite a few (these were Christian sites). I have no idea why men think that sending a pic of their genitals is in ANY way appealing.


Depends on the genitals. >


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

anonmd said:


> Knowing there is at least 1 supposed man magnet (I'll take you at your word!) with no pics it seems like an opportunity if one was trying to get through to give it a chance. I've heard women DO get overwhelmed with responses. One is giving you a hint on how to find a pool with a better chance, seems to be worth 2 messages to get a look.


I really have no idea if any other men or women use this strategy like I do, or what others who have no pics might look like or why they don't have pics. I'm sure some of them don't simply because they are actually married or something like that. So if I look at a guy's profile, he looks at mine, and then he doesn't message me, I know perfectly well that he is probably suspicious of the reasons I don't have pictures or assumes I am not attractive or whatever. No problem by me, I have never once thought "oh DANG why must men be so picky that they actually expect to see a PICTURE of me BEFORE they will message me, wahhh!" 

Instead I just move on to the other 30 guys who did message me, and I share my pics with them. 

Actually every guy I've gone out on a date with from online dating has said to me "I can see why you don't have pics on your profile, you'd just be slammed with messages from dudes you will never be interested in." Yep. That's why.

I feel like I'm not wasting those guy's time by not having pics.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

While I did have pictures in my profile, I also fairly quickly into the process moved to keeping my profile hidden. That is, I could browse all the profiles I wanted, but no one could see my profile unless I messaged them first. Of course it cut way down on the number of messages I received. But to be honest, a great many of the messages I was receiving when my profile was public were from men who had clearly not read my profile and with whom I would clearly not have been compatible based on my stated preferences. It also drastically reduced the number of requests for nude photos...  

My method just cut way down on the numbers of men I was having to reject or ignore, or in several cases report and block. And I successfully found my SO that way, so I must say it worked out swimmingly!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> Depends on the genitals. >


 Not for me, I would far rather see a nice pic of their face. :smile2:

I remember my ex MIL saying that whenever she saw a naked man she wanted to laugh. There are far more sexy parts of their bodies than that, but they seem to think that if they send a pic of their genitals women will all swoon at their feet. It would put me off immediately, and many other women I suspect.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> I really have no idea if any other men or women use this strategy like I do, or what others who have no pics might look like or why they don't have pics. I'm sure some of them don't simply because they are actually married or something like that. So if I look at a guy's profile, he looks at mine, and then he doesn't message me, I know perfectly well that he is probably suspicious of the reasons I don't have pictures or assumes I am not attractive or whatever. No problem by me, I have never once thought "oh DANG why must men be so picky that they actually expect to see a PICTURE of me BEFORE they will message me, wahhh!"
> 
> Instead I just move on to the other 30 guys who did message me, and I share my pics with them.
> 
> ...


When I first contacted my now husband on line he didn't have a pic. He had tried to put one on but couldn't for whatever reason. I was very attracted to him by what he had written and didn't see his pic till a bit later . It was only a small site(Christian one) and I honestly wasn't bothered that he didn't have a pic. I just sort of knew before then that he was the man for me.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I actually find pictures of women's genitals or breasts to not be all that interesting unless it is a picture of the whole person. For me its the overall picture that is appealing, and needs to include a face. 

I'm sure other people view it differently. 

penis pictures seem a bit pointless - is there really enough variation to be interesting. I guess if they include reference fiducials to scale the picture or something. OTOH, being a straight guy, I'm not really wired to be interested in the beauty of penises. 




Faithful Wife said:


> Depends on the genitals. >


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Guys!!! I was just being silly!!!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I think some women have that perspective because they have been burned by guys who seemed decent, together, and relationship-minded. Those guys turned out to be in many cases flaky, aimless, looking for easy sex, etc.

You could argue that maybe the women are bad pickers, but the number and range (in age, background, economic status) of these women makes that seem less likely. 

I would not necessarily steer clear of such women, because those comments seem to come from frustration rather than thinking all guys are the same. I would, however, be on the lookout for troubling signs.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

DTO said:


> I think some women have that perspective because they have been burned by guys who seemed decent, together, and relationship-minded. Those guys turned out to be in many cases flaky, aimless, looking for easy sex, etc.
> 
> *You could argue that maybe the women are bad pickers, but the number and range (in age, background, economic status) of these women makes that seem less likely. *
> 
> I would not necessarily steer clear of such women, because those comments seem to come from frustration rather than thinking all guys are the same. I would, however, be on the lookout for troubling signs.


These women may not have developed the proper boundaries to avoid problems.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Easy answer. Women don't want a normal guy. They want the badass guy. The bald guy with lots of tatoos. Then, when the badass guy turns out to live up his billing and is a badass, they get all pissed off. Then the cycle starts all over again.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> "Normal" guys probably meet enough women in the real world that they're not on the dating sites.


1000x this.

I consider myself to be a "normal" guy. I had terrible luck online, and eventually threw in the OLD towel.

In real life, though... I've never had a problem attracting women. I get smiled at and approached fairly regularly. During periods where I wanted to remain single, I had to put off some serious "Do not approach me" signals. But even then, that didn't work all that well. Women seem to like a brooding guy. 

I just live my life and talk to people without expectations. Women seem to decide to tag along for the ride.

Now that I'm in a serious relationship, I make sure to tone it down somewhat.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> Easy answer. Women don't want a normal guy. They want the badass guy. The bald guy with lots of tatoos. Then, when the badass guy turns out to live up his billing and is a badass, they get all pissed off. Then the cycle starts all over again.


Yes and no. Women do want a "badass", but that doesn't necessarily equate to "bald and tatted". I'm 37 with a full head of hair. I do have a couple tats, but none are visible with clothes on. In fact, I'm rather nerdy at first glance.

IME, "badass" to a woman means "in charge of his life". He takes care of business, is ambitious, sets and meets his goals, and is always making progress. He enjoys female company, but doesn't LIVE for it.

It took me a long time to realize this.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

jb02157 said:


> Easy answer. Women don't want a normal guy. They want the badass guy. The bald guy with lots of tatoos. Then, when the badass guy turns out to live up his billing and is a badass, they get all pissed off. Then the cycle starts all over again.


There must be something to this, otherwise, how could some women have so many negative situations with men. Some women act as though they are put through the meat grinder by every man they meet.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

southbound said:


> There must be something to this, otherwise, how could some women have so many negative situations with men. Some women act as though they are put through the meat grinder by every man they meet.


:scratchhead:

Why would you insist on believing that this is just women?

It is PEOPLE, of all genders, who have bad pickers, who are going to have "so many negative situations" with the opposite sex. Many MEN claim they were put through the meat grinder by every woman they meet. 

I really don't understand why people think this type of thing applies more or less to one gender or the other. This is why I encouraged you to go and look at your competition, so you could see right there on their profiles that same stuff that is on women (who have bad pickers) profiles.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Actually every guy I've gone out on a date with from online dating has said to me "I can see why you don't have pics on your profile, you'd just be slammed with messages...


I knew someone like that. Mostly she was interested in who was messaging her based on her pictureless profile first. Sometimes she'd put up her picture for fifteen to thirty minutes then take it down.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> > There must be something to this, otherwise, how could some women have so many negative situations with men. Some women act as though they are put through the meat grinder by every man they meet.
> ...


You are correct. I'm sure I pay more attention to the women's situations. Evause I am seeking g women. I'm sure there are many men with the same claims. 

Be it man or woman, I still don't see how they get burned so much. Where do they find these people?


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

uhtred said:


> I actually find pictures of women's genitals or breasts to not be all that interesting unless it is a picture of the whole person. For me its the overall picture that is appealing, and needs to include a face.


I know exactly what you mean. I was only interested in the articles too. 😬


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

southbound said:


> You are correct. I'm sure I pay more attention to the women's situations. Evause I am seeking g women. I'm sure there are many men with the same claims.
> 
> Be it man or woman, I still don't see how they get burned so much. Where do they find these people?


Really bad pickers, poor boundaries, childhood/daddy/mommy issues....people choose wrong for all kinds of reasons. Where do they find them? There are male and female jerks everywhere!


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

musicftw07 said:


> IME, "badass" to a woman means "in charge of his life". He takes care of business, is ambitious, sets and meets his goals, and is always making progress. He enjoys female company, but doesn't LIVE for it.


IMO, you didn't describe anything different than a person of either gender who has healthy psychological well-being. According to Carol Ryff's monumental work in developing this scale, it has stood the test of time - all later evaluations of the characteristics of people who exhibited successful lives even while trauma and disaster surrounded them, ended up falling in line with Carol's Six Categories:

Ryff Scale of Psychological Well-Being:

1) Self-Acceptance. You honestly understand your strengths and weaknesses. You embrace your entire past as having helped build you into the person you are today, and you accept that person. You are grateful for everything you've experienced from birth to now.
2) Social malleability. You can connect with anybody you choose, because you are adaptable to varying social situations. You see benefits in every possible relationship, and in general, the work you put into your social life predominantly consists of selecting who to spend less time with.
3) A sense of autonomy in thought and action. You are doing what you are doing because it suits you, not because someone else told you to, or because you're following rules.
4) Ease of managing today's complex world to suit your personal needs and values.
5) Having and pursuing meaningful goals, and having a sense of purpose in life
6) Intentionally and continuously growing as a person - a better you is reborn on a regular basis.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Haiku said:


> I knew someone like that. Mostly she was interested in who was messaging her based on her pictureless profile first. Sometimes she'd put up her picture for fifteen to thirty minutes then take it down.


No one has ever messaged my profile first, unless I look at their profile, they don't know I exist. No one does a search without clicking "profiles with pictures only". If someone did message my profile first without me looking at theirs, I would wonder how the heck they even found my profile! They would almost have to be searching only for profiles with NO pictures to find it! And that would just seem strange to me.

Way long time ago, when the internet was newer and we didn't have smart phones and uploading pictures was a huge problem for some people, there were a lot more profiles with no pictures. But these days there are so few picture-less profiles that they are statistically so insignificant, you'd literally have to look for them by choosing "only profiles with no pictures".

I've never used this is a test to see if a man will be of some sort of character that he'd be interested in me even without seeing pictures. I say right in my profile that pictures will be provided if there is mutual interest.

It really works for me because I've already determined I think the guy is attractive by the time he sees my picture-less profile, so if he messages me after he sees I have looked at his, it is already ten steps ahead because I know I found him attractive first.

There are now some dating apps and sites where the woman is the one who chooses, and the men only know if they were chosen by someone (they don't get to browse profiles of women). It really makes sense to me, because then the women are free from the unwanted messages and if she swipes right on a guy, he already knows she liked his profile first. 

I think sometimes that men underestimate other men, even though you know and understand how creepy and horrible some men are....you don't really see the evidence of it coming straight at you all the time like women do. I think you assume more men are just misunderstood and are actually "normal" men while we complain about the creeps. There's just no way for you to see what we see or experience it the way we experience it. Creepy men will go to great lengths to hide their creepy-ness from other men, too. They know other men won't approve and will try to put them in their place. But they don't hide it from women, they come right at us with it.

Maybe some of them don't know they are being creepy...maybe some are simply misguided...but by and far, most men who act creepy are simply creeps and they resent that women get to choose for themselves who they are attracted to.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> No one has ever messaged my profile first, unless I look at their profile, they don't know I exist. No one does a search without clicking "profiles with pictures only". If someone did message my profile first without me looking at theirs, I would wonder how the heck they even found my profile! They would almost have to be searching only for profiles with NO pictures to find it! And that would just seem strange to me.
> 
> Way long time ago, when the internet was newer and we didn't have smart phones and uploading pictures was a huge problem for some people, there were a lot more profiles with no pictures. But these days there are so few picture-less profiles that they are statistically so insignificant, you'd literally have to look for them by choosing "only profiles with no pictures".
> 
> ...


I'm not on dating sites so I'm not overly familiar. But what I saw had a search function based on age, location, and other parameters such as race, gender, etc. There was a radial button that would include or exclude profiles in the result set based on the existence of a picture or not.

Being retired LE I don't think I underestimate the creepiness of people but I don't go looking for it because we sometimes see what want and manufacture it.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm enjoying this thread.

I had been married for over 20 years, so when I joined POF I was...um...inexperienced.
Like @Faithful Wife I didn't include a picture. I was massively intrigued to see if any men had the balls to talk to me without a photo. I followed the directions exactly, included the info they suggested, took the quiz things to show what I needed in a relationship blah blah blah. 

I met my husband super fast. I was saved from all the drama that I guess goes on. The men I did visit with were really nice. Everyone wanted to meet immediately but I was super skeptical about that, but now I understand from my husband that if you don't want to meet pretty soon, they just move on.

So to answer the OPs question, I would say, remember, you have a lot of different people coming on and off these sites. I was a true newbie and a massive spaz looking back on it. Someone could have read my not having pictures or not being ready to meet very negatively when they truly were only because I was familiarizing myself and learning. 

I was looking for very specific qualities in my husband. They were things that I don't think I could have ever known from a profile. Most of the men's profiles were very minimal. They didn't include much about themselves. Seemed like they didn't want to bother to write much, so I accepted that as the way the guys filled them out. I really liked it when they had a complete profile. I totally read every word on anyone I would talk to. I was looking for clean cut, non smoking, no drugs, employed, and not tiny or obese. Sense of humor massively mandatory. 

My husbands profile probably had two sentences on it. LOL. He massively caught me off guard when I told him I was up running errands in his town. He said, "Where are you, I can meet you for dinner in ten minutes." I was like....ummmm....okkkkkkk... and here we are celebrating another anniversary. So....ya never know.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> These women may not have developed the proper boundaries to avoid problems.


Not sure what you mean. I'm not saying that these women get stuck in bad relationships; they generally see when things are going south (or the guy is not worth the time) and move on.

The frustration is more from the fact that they don't find guys worth the effort to begin with, from what I can tell.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Diana7 said:


> When i was on dating sites I was definitely looking for a decent guy with integrity and honesty and good values. There were quite a few (these were Christian sites). I have no idea why men think that sending a pic of their genitals is in ANY way appealing.


This is rather amusing to me ... one thing is for sure.. if they are sending pics of it.. they expect to use it when they meet you.. It's a fishing hook to see how a woman reacts.....Hail to the penis, will she flirt back letting him know she needs a boinking... 

Of course what would I know.. I have sat and listened to a single friend tell me a few experiences on a Christian dating site... she ran across a few LIARS , to the point she ran into another woman the dude was seeing.. I don't think much of anything can be trusted online.. such a shame...



southbound said:


> I've been checking out dating sites lately, and it's the same thing as when I checked before. Most every woman writes about how weird the men are on the sites. Some of the quotes are: "so tired of cheaters and liers," "are there no normal men left?" "Don't send me nude pics," "not interested in hook ups." I'm sure you get the picture.
> 
> So, whether it be real world or dating site, my question is, "why are women not lining up at the doors of the "normal guys?" There still are some guys out there who aren't just looking to play games and treat women like dirt.


 but Southbound... you are one of the good ones who really doesn't care about a relationship.. so maybe they are not so easy to find.. ya know.. the ones seeking , putting out their feelers are generally the most dysfunctional...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> I really have no idea if any other men or women use this strategy like I do, or what others who have no pics might look like or why they don't have pics. I'm sure some of them don't simply because they are actually married or something like that. So if I look at a guy's profile, he looks at mine, and then he doesn't message me, I know perfectly well that he is probably suspicious of the reasons I don't have pictures or assumes I am not attractive or whatever. No problem by me, I have never once thought "oh DANG why must men be so picky that they actually expect to see a PICTURE of me BEFORE they will message me, wahhh!"
> 
> Instead I just move on to the other 30 guys who did message me, and I share my pics with them.
> 
> ...


The reality is that this works for you, and would likely work for most women. I don't have the statistics, but I imagine men far outnumber women on most dating sites, and are also the ones most likely to message ALL of the women they find even remotely attractive (the 'throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks' method).

When I tried my hand at online dating some 9 years ago, I didn't receive one first message from a woman. All contact was initiated by me. I wasn't on there long enough to ever meet somebody in person, but it was headed that way with a couple of women I had made contact with (then I met someone IRL, off the dating site). My profile was pretty decent, if I recall. Nothing bitter in it, didn't say what I _didn't_ want, no sketchy photos, etc.

But I fully admit that I passed by almost all profiles that did not have a picture. They would have had to have a really eye-catching headline for me to have clicked on it without a picture.

And the reason I did that was simple - it looked like considerably less effort, for starters. It also gave the appearance that someone was hiding something, or didn't feel they were attractive. Or maybe married and hiding their identity. Or catfishing, or a man, or, or, or...

However, it obviously works. Why anybody would be bitter about it is beyond me, especially here.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> But I fully admit that I passed by almost all profiles that did not have a picture. They would have had to have a really eye-catching headline for me to have clicked on it without a picture.
> 
> And the reason I did that was simple - it looked like considerably less effort, for starters. It also gave the appearance that someone was hiding something, or didn't feel they were attractive. Or maybe married and hiding their identity. Or catfishing, or a man, or, or, or...


Yes I get that, and I've never once been butt hurt that I may have clicked on a man's profile, he clicked mine back after seeing that I clicked his, and then he didn't message me. I don't message them first, I just look at their profile. Most of them do message me though.

My description says something like:

Recently divorced after a long marriage, new to dating, having fun meeting interesting people. I'm not looking for a deep commitment at this time but would enjoy companionship and a travel partner. I'm financial stable, fit, fun and attractive.

My stats say my real age and that I am 5'4" and fit.

In my age group, there are a lot of us who are not ready for a deep commitment, so I get a lot of messages from men who hope that I'm honest about my stats and my description and then we message a few times and I share pictures. It's really that simple.

In the beginning I worried that by saying I'm not looking for a deep commitment that some might interpret that as me just looking for sex. But that has not been the case. On the site I use, you can click if you are looking for marriage, a relationship, friendship, or just casual sex (or all of the above). I do not click the marriage or casual sex boxes, and I've never had any confusion from anyone I've chatted with on that point. Again, most of them are in the same boat as me and are happy to find someone else who is, too. They aren't wanting "just sex" either. They want closeness and to care about someone they are having sex with, they just don't want to have to be headed toward marriage in order to have it.

The same site also has the option for people who are in non-monogamous relationships to put that out there so that if that is the case, the rest of us know about it upfront. I really like this feature, and have actually met a couple of guys who were in open relationships. I figured hey, that might work out perfectly since I'm not interested in a commitment and if their relationship is truly open on both sides, maybe I'd just borrow someone's hubby (with her blessing) now and then.

Never made it past those first dates because other things didn't click, but it was definitely an interesting experience.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Purely out of curiosity, and not a challenge to you, but had any of those 'open relationship' guys worked out, would you have insisted on meeting or talking to their wife, first?

I don't really know how open relationships work in that regard - are you just supposed to take the persons word for it, or is there some sort of protocol one follows to ensure they're _actually_ in such a relationship?






Faithful Wife said:


> Yes I get that, and I've never once been butt hurt that I may have clicked on a man's
> profile, he clicked mine back after seeing that I clicked his, and then he didn't message me. I don't message them first, I just look at their profile. Most of them do message me though.
> 
> My description says something like:
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> Purely out of curiosity, and not a challenge to you, but had any of those 'open relationship' guys worked out, would you have insisted on meeting or talking to their wife, first?
> 
> I don't really know how open relationships work in that regard - are you just supposed to take the persons word for it, or is there some sort of protocol one follows to ensure they're _actually_ in such a relationship?


Yes we were talking about ways that I could meet the wife, too.

Actually in a couple of cases, I dated both of them.


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