# Bloomberg wading into women's libido....



## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Hmmm.....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...libido-pill-is-back-and-so-is-the-controversy


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Blues has alluded to this as well....

https://therationalmale.com/2016/06/16/late-life-hypergamy/


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Well much like Viagra, I suspect that both men and women will conflate the idea of what they think this drug does, with what it actually does.

Although given that it seems clinically they can't even agree on what the measurable metric for success should be, they had better come up with some really appealing marketing for their audience.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In my opinion a male birth control pill (something other than a condom) would be a better place to start. 

Badsanta


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Interesting. We have so many men on TAM upset by their wives not having much of a libido. I'd think these guys would be champions of a drug like this.

I'd say let women decide if they want to try to drug and if it works for them.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Interesting. We have so many men on TAM upset by their wives not having much of a libido. I'd think these guys would be champions of a drug like this.
> 
> I'd say let women decide if they want to try to drug and if it works for them.


 @EleGirl the pill that is proven effective to boosts a woman's libido was discovered a very long time ago and men simply do not want hear about it or ever talk about it. The way it works is that the pill is taken by the man and it helps him to become a better listener. 



Badsanta


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Noooooo, you can't have to listen alllll the time, do you? 

(Humor) 😉😉😉


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I agree that its completely up to women if they want to take this. I'm glad the option exists. 


One difficulty though is that many people (not just women) with low libidos have no interest in increasing their libidos (though they might be happy if they did), so there is a bit of a catch-22. I don't think its something a man can reasonably suggest to his partner. 



EleGirl said:


> Interesting. We have so many men on TAM upset by their wives not having much of a libido. I'd think these guys would be champions of a drug like this.
> 
> I'd say let women decide if they want to try to drug and if it works for them.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Another case of approving a medication without understanding of the social implications. 

The women who want to improve and consider self help, therapy, HRT, or pills will likely succeed regardless of cause and within reason regardless of cost. Mind over matter. 

The women who don't care won't bother with any of the above regardless of benefit. Mind over matter.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

What are the social implications if I say slip these into my wife's drink at dinner?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> What are the social implications if I say slip these into my wife's drink at dinner?


You gotta watch Book Club! One of the wives did this to her hubby lol


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> What are the social implications if I say slip these into my wife's drink at dinner?


If she figures it out and is displeased, she could have you arrested.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> If she figures it out and is displeased, she could have you arrested.


Oh she's always pleased :wink2:


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> What are the social implications if I say slip these into my wife's drink at dinner?


Aside from that being a violation of her person, this libido drug requires long term use to be effective. You'd gain nothing from doing so, unless you did so every day for months. This is NOT something with almost immediate effect, and the "improvement" in libido is barely discernible, and may not even be real.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> Aside from that being a violation of her person, this libido drug requires long term use to be effective. You'd gain nothing from doing so, unless you did so every day for months. This is NOT something with almost immediate effect, and *the "improvement" in libido is barely discernible, and may not even be real*.


I would guess the placebo effect is at play. She takes it because she WANTS her libido to improve, and because she WANTS it to improve, it does.

If a woman wants to want to have sex, she will. There may be physiological issues (dryness after menopause, etc.) But the wanting to...yeah, she can choose that.

That's why when a woman says "I just don't need sex, and I don't have any desire, so I can't," I call bull. You can change your mindset.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> Aside from that being a violation of her person, this libido drug requires long term use to be effective. You'd gain nothing from doing so, unless you did so every day for months. This is NOT something with almost immediate effect, and the "improvement" in libido is barely discernible, and may not even be real.


But I like to violate her person.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

So essentially what the anti pill faction is saying is that it is that a state of very low libedo is normal for women and should not be "treated".
It's only a problem if it distresses her that she isn't interested.

Can we please apply this line of thinking to Obesity?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> So essentially what the anti pill faction is saying is that it is that a state of very low libedo is normal for women and should not be "treated".
> It's only a problem if it distresses her that she isn't interested.
> 
> Can we please apply this line of thinking to Obesity?


 I'm not sure what kind of chip is on your shoulder, but I didn't read that from anybody. I certainly don't think it's normal for women to lose interest in sex. My point was that if a woman cares about her Lobito, shall do something about it. I don't think a woman who thinks she's entitled to refuse 6 is going to magically transform because she took appeal. Because it's all in her head and attitude. But Hey, if a man who sex starved thinks his wife popping appeal will fix his entire life, who am I to stand in his way.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

The hickory chip on my shoulder is that two groups of people are arguing over whether or not a pill (that is proven safe by the standard process) should be available. The proponents want to sell the pill and make a prescription level profit. The potential users have hope for relief of symptoms. The opponents (and this is the chip) say that the symptoms don't point to any problem. Because the problem is common therefor it is "normal".

So on to my proposal. Obesity is common, and getting more common every day. Obese people are generally not very distressed about their obesity. Therefore it is "normal" and we should not treat it. 

While I have your attention, you said earlier:


personofinterest said:


> I would guess the placebo effect is at play. She takes it because she WANTS her libido to improve, and because she WANTS it to improve, it does.
> 
> If a woman wants to want to have sex, she will. There may be physiological issues (dryness after menopause, etc.) But the wanting to...yeah, she can choose that.
> 
> That's why when a woman says "I just don't need sex, and I don't have any desire, so I can't," I call bull. You can change your mindset.


I really liked this post but couldn't decide how to reply to it. If the woman wants to improve, and wants to change her mindset, then she most certainly will do everything in her power to do it. And The kind thing would be to clear the path for her to get all the help she needs. Why are women disrespecting that desire by denying that any problem exists? It only makes sense as a move to promote a different agenda. But, What is that agenda?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> You gotta watch Book Club! One of the wives did this to her hubby lol


Mine did it to me. I kept wondering why everything had a blue cast(hue). No, I don't recommend it. Talk to him.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

What I was wondering is, does this pill work like an antidepressant? Seems to work on similar brain chemicals.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> What I was wondering is, does this pill work like an antidepressant? Seems to work on similar brain chemicals.


Yes.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

john117 said:


> Yes.


Maybe these women have simply given up trying...

Anyway, I was wondering if they would do the same for depressed men? I suppose the answer to that is yes, too, since we have the same brain chemicals and they work in similar ways?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

2ntnuf said:


> Maybe these women have simply given up trying...
> 
> Anyway, I was wondering if they would do the same for depressed men? I suppose the answer to that is yes, too, since we have the same brain chemicals and they work in similar ways?


Despite all of the face value and clear cut explanations we can give for why sex dies, it still fascinates me just how utterly mystifying and convoluted the subject can be. Suppose it is why there will ALWAYS be something to say or talk about when it comes to sex.

I have posted previously about a female friend, who had all but given up on men and sex. She flat out wasn't interested. Thought it was a waste of time ... had absolutely no libido.

Until ... she met the man she's about to marry. I will clarify that their relationship started as an affair, and went through almost all of the gyrations that comes with an affair, including that jolt of brain chemicals that comes with it.

We have known each other for over 30 years. We have discussed relationship and sexual issues/details in the past.

Bottom line is that this guy, for whatever reason, was like throwing kerosene on a birthday candle. She was stunned. 

My point ... my point is, hearkening back to my initial post here, I don't think this medication is going to have the effect that I just described above. Hopefully, it will do it's job of increasing a hypoactive libido in females.

But I am often surprised at how many people believe that viagra also impacts libido. For the record, it doesn't. It simply enhances bloodflow ... desire still takes place further north in the anatomy.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> My point ... my point is, hearkening back to my initial post here, I don't think this medication is going to have the effect that I just described above. Hopefully, it will do it's job of increasing a hypoactive libido in females.
> 
> But I am often surprised at how many people believe that viagra also impacts libido. For the record, it doesn't. It simply enhances bloodflow ... desire still takes place further north in the anatomy.


This


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

uhtred said:


> I agree that its completely up to women if they want to take this. I'm glad the option exists.
> 
> 
> One difficulty though is that many people (not just women) with low libidos have no interest in increasing their libidos (though they might be happy if they did), so there is a bit of a catch-22. I don't think its something a man can reasonably suggest to his partner.


You are right that some people who los libido have no problem with their status quo. I know this from experience since I was married to a man who started with a high libido but over time lost it. I did talk to him several times about seeking ways to get his libido back to include seeing a doctor about his T levels. He could care less.

However there are people with low libidos who would and do care enough to do something about it. They are probably people who used to have a healthy libido and miss that. If there is an option for those people, it should be made available. 

There are already things out there for men with low libidos, for example, T replacement for men. And men also have Viagra. But there seems to be a resistance to anything that helps women out.

You say that a man could not suggest that his wife take this, so it's a problem. Why not? A couple should talk openly about their issues, and this would be one of them for a couple with a woman who has developed a low libido.

Or maybe a good number of women would not need their husband to suggested. Maybe they would think of it on their own. Maybe their docs could suggest it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> I would guess the placebo effect is at play. She takes it because she WANTS her libido to improve, and because she WANTS it to improve, it does.
> 
> If a woman wants to want to have sex, she will. There may be physiological issues (dryness after menopause, etc.) But the wanting to...yeah, she can choose that.
> 
> That's why when a woman says "I just don't need sex, and I don't have any desire, so I can't," I call bull. You can change your mindset.


Studies that I've read that look into why some women appear to be low libido have all found the same thing. About 70%-80% of women who seem to be 'low libido' are not 'low libido'. They just do not want sex with their husband. They are upset with him, the relationship is not doing it for her. So the last thing she wants is sex with him.

The same was found about men. Most men who appear to be low libido in their marriage are not. They just do not want sex with their wife.

There is of course a smaller percentage of people who are low libido. Some have always been that way. Some develop heath issues that affect their hormones and become truly low libido.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> I'm not sure what kind of chip is on your shoulder, but I didn't read that from anybody. I certainly don't think it's normal for women to lose interest in sex. My point was that if a woman cares about her Lobito, shall do something about it. I don't think a woman who thinks she's entitled to refuse 6 is going to magically transform because she took appeal. *Because it's all in her head and attitude.* But Hey, if a man who sex starved thinks his wife popping appeal will fix his entire life, who am I to stand in his way.


You are wrong. For a woman who has truly become low-libido, it's not all in her head and attitude. It's usually a hormonal issue. Just like low T levels can turn a man low-libido.

There are true medical conditions that can lead a woman to lose, or mostly lose, her sex drive. One of them is birth control pills. They mess with a woman's hormones and in some women they seriously harm her libido.

Medical diseases - Many nonsexual diseases can affect sex drive, including arthritis, cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, coronary artery disease and neurological diseases.

Medications - Certain prescription drugs, especially antidepressants, birth control pills.

Testosterone therapy - Although no hormone or drug has been approved by the FDA to treat sexual problems in women, many gynecologists recommend off-label uses of testosterone therapy for women with low sexual desire to restore testosterone to normal (pre-menopausal) levels.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> There are already things out there for men with low libidos, for example, T replacement for men. And men also have Viagra. But there seems to be a resistance to anything that helps women out.


The description of low libido that this is designed to treat is a low libido which the* patient considers a problem*.

As far as I can see, the opposition comes from women's groups who don't want to see low libido in women described as a problem.

I think it's unconscionable to oppose a drug that might help others just because one doesn't see it as a problem for themselves.

That would be like opposing cochlear implants because one doesn't consider not being able to hear a disability (which is a real thing). 

Now, whether or not the drug actually works is a different question.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> You are wrong. For a woman who has truly become low-libido, it's not all in her head and attitude. It's usually a hormonal issue. Just like low T levels can turn a man low-libido.
> 
> There are true medical conditions that can lead a woman to lose, or mostly lose, her sex drive. One of them is birth control pills. They mess with a woman's hormones and in some women they seriously harm her libido.
> 
> ...


In the above cases, however, a woman with a healthy view of sex is going to KNOW something is wrong and be motivated to fix it. I am referring to the women who just don't care.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Low dopamine will kill your sex drive as well. One of the best triggers for natural dopamine flooding is sexual novelty. A new guy can wake up a woman's dead drive because of dopamine. If you've ever done cocaine in your past, you know what that huge dose of dopamine can do to a sex drive. I've seen women go from "I'm tired and don't feel sexual at all" to a raging nympho 5 minutes after a line. Our brains feel good chemicals are interesting to manipulate. Cocaine is illegal and should never be done.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

PigglyWiggly said:


> Low dopamine will kill your sex drive as well. One of the best triggers for natural dopamine flooding is sexual novelty. A new guy can wake up a woman's dead drive because of dopamine. If you've ever done cocaine in your past, you know what that huge dose of dopamine can do to a sex drive. I've seen women go from "I'm tired and don't feel sexual at all" to a raging nympho 5 minutes after a line. Our brains feel good chemicals are interesting to manipulate. Cocaine is illegal and should never be done.


Nice job with the PSA/rules violation avoiding caveat at the end😎


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

I'm here to serve


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Interesting. We have so many men on TAM upset by their wives not having much of a libido. I'd think these guys would be champions of a drug like this.
> 
> I'd say let women decide if they want to try to drug and if it works for them.


It probably wouldn't work that way. They'd take the drug and still be repulsed by their feminized beta husband, but have less of an excuse not to ride her cute co-worker.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Studies that I've read that look into why some women appear to be low libido have all found the same thing. About 70%-80% of women who seem to be 'low libido' are not 'low libido'. They just do not want sex with their husband. They are upset with him, the relationship is not doing it for her. So the last thing she wants is sex with him.
> 
> The same was found about men. Most men who appear to be low libido in their marriage are not. They just do not want sex with their wife.
> 
> There is of course a smaller percentage of people who are low libido. Some have always been that way. Some develop heath issues that affect their hormones and become truly low libido.


Exactly. Its not that they are particularly low drive. The problem is they are not attracted to their husbands and likely no pill will fix that. Her husband self castrated himself, typically after marriage and kids, then got friend-zoned except he doesn't know it yet because he thought he was a good family man doing all the right things (which dried up his wife like the Sahara).


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its not clear why some people seem to want to have a high (or at least normal) libido and others don't. 

It would be great if couples could talk openly about this, but some (many?) can't. At least in my case, my wife was ingrained as a child with the idea that sex is something men "get" from women. So any discussion that goes in the direction of suggesting more sex is seen as me wanting more than is "fair". (despite her enjoying sex when it happens). People can get stuck on very strange ideas. 



BTW- I wasn't suggesting anything wrong with the drug. Assuming no serious side effects I think its a great option for people who want it. There are many cases of people who would like to get their lost libidos back. 






EleGirl said:


> You are right that some people who los libido have no problem with their status quo. I know this from experience since I was married to a man who started with a high libido but over time lost it. I did talk to him several times about seeking ways to get his libido back to include seeing a doctor about his T levels. He could care less.
> 
> However there are people with low libidos who would and do care enough to do something about it. They are probably people who used to have a healthy libido and miss that. If there is an option for those people, it should be made available.
> 
> ...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> What are the social implications if I say slip these into my wife's drink at dinner?


About the same as if she slipped a sex drive decreasing drug into your drink. 


It is an issue though - some people might do this. Personally I consider drugging someone without their consent as comparable to rape and deserving of similar prison time. 

(I know you were kidding. But there are people who might do it).


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Its not clear why some people seem to want to have a high (or at least normal) libido and others don't.
> 
> It would be great if couples could talk openly about this, but some (many?) can't. At least in my case, my wife was ingrained as a child with the idea that sex is something men "get" from women. So any discussion that goes in the direction of suggesting more sex is seen as me wanting more than is "fair". (despite her enjoying sex when it happens). People can get stuck on very strange ideas.
> 
> ...


Uhtred, I think you are too patient for your own good in relation to your wife's fickleness over sex. You said it yourself, that she likes it when it happens. But what good does that do you if she only allows it twice a year... Have you tried taking the choice out of the equation? Not in a rapey way (no means no and all) but attack her passionately and see how she reacts. Either she shudders in revulsion and tells you to get off or she likes it. 

Dude, I just want to get you laid :/


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Yes I have tried just grabbing her for sex, literally carrying her to the bedroom. She said no. In >30 years I have tried a great many things - probably pretty much anything anyone is likely to suggest. My scientific conclusion: she has a low libido and doesn't want much sex, not with me, not with anyone, not ever. 

Things I have not done: Cheated. Acted like a different person in order to get sex. Threatened. Spent lots of time working out - I'm OK fitness now. Pretended / lied in any way to get sex. Bargained for sex. 

thats about all I can think of. 






UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Uhtred, I think you are too patient for your own good in relation to your wife's fickleness over sex. You said it yourself, that she likes it when it happens. But what good does that do you if she only allows it twice a year... Have you tried taking the choice out of the equation? Not in a rapey way (no means no and all) but attack her passionately and see how she reacts. Either she shudders in revulsion and tells you to get off or she likes it.
> 
> Dude, I just want to get you laid :/


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Yes I have tried just grabbing her for sex, literally carrying her to the bedroom. She said no. In >30 years I have tried a great many things - probably pretty much anything anyone is likely to suggest. My scientific conclusion: she has a low libido and doesn't want much sex, not with me, not with anyone, not ever.
> 
> Things I have not done: Cheated. Acted like a different person in order to get sex. Threatened. Spent lots of time working out - I'm OK fitness now. Pretended / lied in any way to get sex. Bargained for sex.
> 
> thats about all I can think of.


Desperate times call for desperate measures. Unless you aren't desperate. Porn can keep you off the ledge for quite awhile though. I learned that from my previous dead bedroom marriage.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Despite all of the face value and clear cut explanations we can give for why sex dies, it still fascinates me just how utterly mystifying and convoluted the subject can be. Suppose it is why there will ALWAYS be something to say or talk about when it comes to sex.
> 
> I have posted previously about a female friend, who had all but given up on men and sex. She flat out wasn't interested. Thought it was a waste of time ... had absolutely no libido.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying. My thoughts were that these women have become depressed because they had to give up hope for their man to "get it". One way to help them to be open to their man, or another in the case of divorce, might be this med. Now, as you say, it's really all about them feeling like they are attractive, desired, a little carefree(think their man helps them get things done so they can relax a bit and not worry about things getting done). 

I realize all of that. I figured it would help those who are stuck. Of course, if their partner isn't going to put in any effort, it's over. 

Not sure if you thought I didn't understand that, or you were just expanding on my post. 

I know Viagra is only for blood flow. My ex gave it to me and I was up at attention, though had no desire for her. She then used me for herself. Depression meds will help get one open to things when they are truly depressed and not just sad. I don't know if these women in the study are clinically depressed or not. My suspicion is they are.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

2ntnuf said:


> Not sure if you thought I didn't understand that, or you were just expanding on my post.
> 
> I know Viagra is only for blood flow. My ex gave it to me and I was up at attention, though had no desire for her. She then used me for herself. Depression meds will help get one open to things when they are truly depressed and not just sad. I don't know if these women in the study are clinically depressed or not. My suspicion is they are.


Just expanding, and putting thoughts into posts, 2nt.

I think a medication that would turn a wall-flower into a sexual wolverine would be awesome ... pretty much for everybody. And we both know that if respect and attraction aren't already in the equation, then desire is pretty much out.

My wife is on the backside of menopause. She's a good communicator, and felt compelled to tell me that she is worried she has no libido, and misses 'wanting' sex. Even with that, I'm not complaining, as we still have an enjoyable sex life.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> Things I have not done: Cheated. Acted like a different person in order to get sex. Threatened. Spent lots of time working out - I'm OK fitness now. Pretended / lied in any way to get sex. Bargained for sex.


Good for you, cause all those things suck.

That said, I think it is INCREDIBLY selfish of your wife to deprive you of the one thing that you cannot ethically have from anyone except her.


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