# What would you do in my shoes?



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

Hi guys,

I started this discussion in the Divorce and Seperation panel and almost hijacked a thread there. I am moving it here and would like to hear from guys what you think. It's a loooong story. We are in mid-20s, married for 4 years. Most of the time she was a student and we were in a distant relationship.

She graduated recently and is looking for a job. However, that is easier said than done, she's spent past half year or so looking for a career without any success. I support her looking for a career that suits her so I'm not in any hurry, but she is getting frustrated and starting to talk about moving to a different country more and more frequently. I'm in a career where I spent at least 60hrs/week working, so my fault for not be able to spend too much time with her. During the past half year or so, she is becoming increasingly moody and short tempered, and started to exhibit emotional bully traits (10 Signs Your Girlfriend or Wife is an Emotional Bully « A Shrink for Men). 

We recently went on a 2-week long vacation in Europe. While we initially were having fun, but as days drag on and we became tired, she became increasingly negative all the time (complaint that I'm not focusing on her, complaint that I want to do some work, complaint that I'm not taking enough pictures of her, complaint that tour is too slow, complaint that her views are blocked...). I would become the target: why didn't I have balls to tell the lady in front of her to move, why didn't I take picture from this angle to that angle, etc, and would start screaming in front of all the tourists and throw a tantrum at fellow tourists (you are huge! can't you see you are blocking everyone's view?). She is very into fitness lately, and she constantly thinks that she needs to fight everyone in Europe and talks about she can take everyone on by her self.

After we came back from vacation, she seemed to relax a bit but were still very moody. We have a dog together and she claims that I'm bribing the dog to love me more (I'm away from home 12hrs a day!). She completely stopped contributing to household maintenance.

About 4 days ago, we were having a little fun sparring in the backyard, but one time we hit each other a bit too hard and she started screaming profanities and started punching and kicking me like mad. Since we were still in sparring gear I laughed it off and let her blow off her steam a bit. She hit me once hard enough to rupture my ear drum. That ended with me calling her some names and back in the house. However, half hour later she found me in living room and started going all out again. This time she was a bit out of control and started hacking away with kitchen knives. I really lost temper this time. I pinned her to remove the knives and told her that "she out-stayed her welcome at my house" and she "should pack up and get out of here".

Right now, we are sleeping in different bedrooms in a complete cold war. Just today, she accused me of attacking her.

At the recommendation of GettingWiser, I got the book No More Mr. Nice Guy last night and finished it. The book resonated loudly with me.


- I am a fixer / caretaker. I mentioned in my post “If you don't want me to do anything why do you want to talk about it?”.
- I avoid conflict. Most of the time I just let her get away making scene outside and avoid talking about it afterwards. This is why wife gets away with picking fights outside again and again.
- I repress my feelings and over analyze. Wife’s constant complaint is “tell me what you think, don’t tell me according to some research paper how you should feel!”. 
- I do not place my needs as priority. Hence as a single man I can achieve 5% body fat, but after marriage I stopped going to gym completely focusing on work and taking care of family and 20% overweight. I do not take the time off needed for myself.
- I make her my emotional center. I don’t hang out with anyone else except for her, and may have unconsciously become needy. Especially recently my best buddy at work quit several months ago, I do not talk anything non-technical at work with anyone.


Above faults may cause some of the non-nice symptoms that Glover brings up:
- I give to get – that is, I give expecting the same in return. I grow annoyed when my output far exceeds my input. 
- I can be dishonest or secretive – more out of fear than malice. If something bad happens, I try to fix it so no one notices. When I do something bad, I am too scared to bring it up. Day in and day out, it’s becomes hard to see what is true about me. Perhaps this is why she constantly accuses me of being a liar.
- I am full of rage – however I don’t let it out. Only time I let myself get truly angry is while driving home when I know that after a hard day’s work, I’m only driving back to another life of total powerlessness. But I will hide this feeling as I walk in through the door.
- I am passive aggressive. During my off days, I do not want to join her for activities, but still tags along – and sulks the whole time. She gets miserable and we fight.

==========================

This book is wonderful. Wife had pointed out many of these things before but I didn’t put them together in a whole picture.
Granted, the way she behaved was unacceptable. However, I can definitely see why she would feel that way, and I might begin to have an understanding of the frustration she must have felt the whole time. I’m not excusing her behavior: she was total loose cannon. But I do have my faults in driving her there. Above lists form the agenda of what I want to talk to her about. We’ll see where that leads us.

Any comments?

EDIT: I feel we are both very hurt. I don't know if I should talk to her first, or wait for her 180 style.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

I got to pulled a knife on me and started trying to hack me and stopped reading

When anyone pulls a weapon on someone else, it's time to seriously think about the relationship and how much your life is worth to keep trying to fix it.


----------



## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Let's say all these things about you are true. Kitchen Knives? ruptured eardrums? I think this might go beyond 'No more mr nice guy' Being a nice guy does not cause a woman to react violently unless she has major issues of her own. Issues which most likely have nothing to do with you. I'm sorry but she sounds unstable. Have you thought about it from this perspective? Not saying you shouldn't work on yourself but there might be bigger issues here.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

It sounds like she has some strong negative emotions against you. She sees you as her enemy in a sense. I am sorry for your situation. It seems to me that it's to the point where nothing you can do would help. If you are patient and non-confrontational she will probably try to antagonize you. If you directly oppose her then she will attack you like an enemy of her well being. I'm so sorry for you man. I would suggest counseling. I also would suggest taking care of yourself. I don't know if I could live in the same house with this kind of person.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She's certifiably psycho and she doesn't need to be unrestrained in the presence of other human beings or any other life-form that bleeds. "Fixer" or not, there is no excuse for arming oneself with cutlery and threatening others. I have the patience of Job, but even I wouldn't tolerate threats against my life. There are billions of women on this earth. They all seem a bit odd at times but very few will actually kill you. She seems like she could. Ditch her or check her into a psych ward. If you ditched her, would your life seriously be worse? She isn't working. She's a drama queen. She's violent, bossy, and abusive. To put a cherry on top of that nasty sundae, she doesn't even keep house. Other than exchanging oxygen into carbon dioxide, thereby helping your house plants, what benefit are you gaining from her presence?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

GET OUT. Dude....GET OUT NOW.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Didn't you mention on your other thread that your wife had an affair?? Violent, selfish, disrespectful, emotionally abusive, and a cheater... Why do you need this in your life????


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

That is what I suspect. Other than a couple years as single, what do I have to lose? 

I'm going to start 180. Let's how long she will stay by herself.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't think you need to do that. I think you need to get away from her altogether. But do what you feel my man. I know it's not exactly easy to just leave someone you are emotionally invested in, even if they do things that threaten your well being.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You don't need a 180. You need a lawyer, a large dog, a big pistol loaded with silver bullets, a garlic necklace, a mallet, and some wooden stakes. A vial of Holy Water couldn't hurt.


----------



## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

sqrt314 said:


> That is what I suspect. Other than a couple years as single, what do I have to lose?
> 
> I'm going to start 180. Let's how long she will stay by herself.


You do a 180 and turn your back on this woman and you just might find a steak knife impaled in your spine.


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

sharkeey said:


> You do a 180 and turn your back on this woman and you just might find a steak knife impaled in your spine.


LOL, guess the only thing left for me to do is put her on a pedastal and pray for her favors. And bring the animal sacrifices once a week is must so that she does not enter a rage and throw out a thunderbolt!



> You don't need a 180. You need a lawyer, a large dog, a big pistol loaded with silver bullets, a garlic necklace, a mallet, and some wooden stakes. A vial of Holy Water couldn't hurt.


This is hilerous.. the common consensus on the forum is that she is the devil reborn.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> You don't need a 180. You need a lawyer, a large dog, a big pistol loaded with silver bullets, a garlic necklace, a mallet, and some wooden stakes. A vial of Holy Water couldn't hurt.


:iagree::smthumbup:


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

I said what was needed. We bumped into eachother in bathroom and I uttered a few words.

I told her that I was sorry for the part of escalation. I thanked her for the opportunity for such a through self relection as I had previously, and hoped that time might find us toleratable to each other again. 

Ball is now in her court. Move out / get papers / whatever. My part is done.


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

Glad I had closure. She just stormed out of bedroom yelling I'm selfish for moving the cell phone charger to my room.

Ahhh I'm going to miss this woman. Funny how she still walks around the house and me in undies.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I'm curious. How did you meet this woman? Does she have a troubled past? Were their any red flags in the beginning? Of course we are only hearing you side but she just sounds quite unreasonable.


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

We met in college. I was senior, and VP for the student council. She was an international student, first year. Due to weather, her flights were re-routed in a very f_ed up way, and I drove an hour to a nearby airport and "picked her up".

I have my faults. In my old thread, I had a list of good/bad things about me. Of course, after reading the NMMNG book, I realize my flaws are much more serious than that, as I fall into the stereotype pretty spot-on.

1. I don't make enough time for her. I leave for work by 7am in the morning, while she is still sleeping. I don't get home until at least 8~9pm. I cook dinner 90% of the time, and by the time we are done eating it is usually well past 10pm. I usually try to get some of my second job done the next couple of hours and we just sleep by 2am. She has to drags me out on weekends. I'm less than ethuasitc about going out with her on weekends, I tend to want to just "hang out" in the house. She wants me to spend time with her, go to local places, drive to nearby beach or mountain. 

2. I am messy. After I cook sometimes I leave dishes piling for 2~3 days. I don't fold laundry, I put clothing straight into laundry hamper and pick out what I need from there. However, she doesn't even know how to use the washer! I have to wash and dry everything, every time! She doesn't know how to use any applicanes in the house, and she would often put away her stuff during the first 30 minutes, than spend the next 30 minutes yelling at me for "never putting stuff away"!

3. She finds it hard to communicate with me. Probably my fault since I often find it difficult to express my feelings. I get impatient very quickly when she wants to talk since it quickly degenerates into vulgarities. I want to know what she wants me to do, but that just frustrates her more. If you don't want me to do anything why do you want to talk about it? 

4. I used to be very fit (5~8% body fat, well built). However, I'm currently very out of shape (overweight).

=====

1. I work my ass off. I work as engineer, and we are in our mid-20s. Based on my income, we are living in a very comfortable and huge home in a country club. I don't have any drug / alcohol abuses. I am 100% supporting us financially. She continuously say that I'm a cheap bastard, despite of having not worked a single day of her life.

2. I am responsible. If I say I'll get something done, it will be done by the time she wants it. However, she insists to dictate the exact time that I need to do something. This frustrates me to no end and was the source of many arguments.

3. I am considerate. However, she always thinks I'm doing something behind her back. For example, I'll see her shivering and will offer to turn up the temperature. She'll snap at me saying that I am cold and wants to turn up the temperature. Then she'll accuse me of being a liar for refusing to admit that I am cold and want to turn up the temperature.



> Does she have a troubled past?


Her first love, and the only one before me, was a "sugar-daddy" relationship. She dated him from early teens to early twentys, and he was very prominent politician / socialiate in his 50s. 

She is very distant from her parents due to the involvement of the said sugar daddy.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Where is your wife from? Asia?


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

yup


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

sqrt314 said:


> yup


I knew it.

There is a similar thread of a guy who has a Japanese wife. I'm not trying to disrespect any cultures. But you just described the typical troubled dynamics of western and asian marriage. All women like a men with status but it's even more prominent in asian cultures. Hence the sugar daddy. Your wife is incompetent of domestic duties but still feels she has the right to demand certain things of you. That's because she is spoiled and has little interest in catering to a man. You have to cater to her. You are a man. Therefore you should be able to take any verbal or physical punishment she gives you. If you cannot then she is not at fault. You are just weak. Any sense of trying to find common ground is negated because culturally a lot of asian women view marriage as a business agreement. Meaning they attempt to gain as much as possible while giving as little as possible. That's why she is being so stubborn. She doesn't want to give anything to you because she is just feels you should just give to her. That's also why her attitude is emasculating towards you. She just wants you to submit to her will and what she wants. I cringe everytime I hear someone say an asian wife is submissive.

Not all asian women are like this. But you would be surprised how books like "His and Her needs" will not even apply to a lot of other cultures concepts of marriage.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Interesting. So what does he have to do, get ultra dominant and put her in her place? Ignore her? It's pretty common in that culture to have a mistress right?


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Yeah it is. A lot of the marriages are child centered. Once the child is born a lot of women have no interest in being anything but a mother. And the husbands stay away from home as much as possible. So it's kind of like a domestic partnership. 

Sqrt314, to be fair, the things she is asking from you are not horrible. Be more social and spend more time with her. Even though her "normal" raises eyebrows, you are neglecting your wife. She did attack you with a knife so it may indeed be time to call it quits(sh!t I would). But you can't work all the day and night and be a recluse and expect any woman to be happy in a marriage.


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

FalconKing said:


> Yeah it is. A lot of the marriages are child centered. Once the child is born a lot of women have no interest in being anything but a mother. And the husbands stay away from home as much as possible. So it's kind of like a domestic partnership.
> 
> Sqrt314, to be fair, the things she is asking from you are not horrible. Be more social and spend more time with her. Even though her "normal" raises eyebrows, you are neglecting your wife. She did attack you with a knife so it may indeed be time to call it quits(sh!t I would). But you can't work all the day and night and be a recluse and expect any woman to be happy in a marriage.



I know she deserves better and more attention than I am giving to her right now. But for Christ's sake, I can only provide so much. She can either want to spend time with me, or she can have me working and getting materials things. I will happily provide one or the other.

When buying house, she set her eyes in a brand new lot in a country club. Fine. We'll get it. She crashed her old car, and the only car she wants is that top-of-line BMW. Fine, we'll get it too. She wants the new Tiffany jewelry. Fine, we'll get it. I'm in love with her, and I'm willing to do things happy for her. The trouble is that she is never content. I really don't mind working hard to see her happy, but I would really prefer to see that smile last longer than 10 minutes.

I work in a high-tech startup in R&D capacity. I'm the senior engineer of the group, and our main competitors include GE, Samsung, and Philips. Talk about that for pressure. To provide extra income, in my spare time I run a derivatives trading partnership. Top it off, I'm still going to school part time working on advanced degree. In an average week, I sleep maybe 20~30 hours to balance everything.

I like to entertain the idea of the "businesses contract". How else to explain that she refuses to put in any effort? 

They say that "family unit" is more important in Asian than in U.S. I say this is bull****. In recent years, there were a lot of failed marriages in US, true, but those surviving are based on love and support for each other.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

There’s a kind of consensus on TAM that a man should always look to himself for the problems within his marriage. And for sure the man can and does affect how his marriage dynamics work.


But in my mind he’s right to examine his wife’s behaviour in as much detail as necessary. And to do this by taking himself out of the equation and to not be so paranoid/ego centric as to believe that everything his wife does is down to him.


Take the OP’s situation as an example. By his description his wife is obviously a crazy woman. The thing is she would behave in crazy ways no matter who she is married to. That latter point may take a while to sink in.



So it doesn’t matter which books he reads, how much he changes his behaviour, his wife will always be the crazy woman he sees today.

The two of them have immensely different value systems and read from completely different rule books. It’s called incompatibility and no amount of book reading or behavioural modifications on his behalf will ever make them compatible.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

sqrt314 said:


> They say that "family unit" is more important in Asian than in U.S. I say this is bull****. In recent years, there were a lot of failed marriages in US, true, but those surviving are based on love and support for each other.


Yeah, it's not that their marriages are more successful. It's just in some cultures they don't believe in divorce so much. And if a spouse is refusing you a service, you just get it elsewhere. If you don't really expect a strong sense of romance and intimacy or positivity from your spouse, then you I guess when those things are not there you take what you can get from whomever or whatever. I bet if you asked your wife before she married you what she expected from marriage(in detail with the use of scenarios) you probably wouldn't have liked at least a few answers. I don't think she has much interest in "pleasing her man" or "deep connections". She may place a lot of values on materialistic comforts and status. And she probably feels she is fulfilling every obligation to you just be being your wife.

I am not advocating against intercultural/interracial marriages. I'm pro that til I die. But your experience is far too common.


----------



## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

*facepalm* I got as far as hackiing away at him with knives in the first post then just before AFEH's I see that he is buying her bmw, tiffany jewelry, and a house? Wtf? *slaps forehead and facepalms*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

> And she probably feels she is fulfilling every obligation to you just be being your wife.


*shakes head* grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

Gaia said:


> *facepalm* I got as far as hackiing away at him with knives in the first post then just before AFEH's I see that he is buying her bmw, tiffany jewelry, and a house? Wtf? *slaps forehead and facepalms*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perhaps I over-stressed material comforts over emotional comforts.

EDIT: It's almost 3am here. I'm checking out for the night. Thanks for the support everyone!


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

sqrt314 said:


> I know she deserves better and more attention than I am giving to her right now. But for Christ's sake, I can only provide so much. She can either want to spend time with me, or she can have me working and getting materials things. I will happily provide one or the other.
> 
> When buying house, she set her eyes in a brand new lot in a country club. Fine. We'll get it. She crashed her old car, and the only car she wants is that top-of-line BMW. Fine, we'll get it too. She wants the new Tiffany jewelry. Fine, we'll get it. I'm in love with her, and I'm willing to do things happy for her. The trouble is that she is never content. I really don't mind working hard to see her happy, but I would really prefer to see that smile last longer than 10 minutes.
> 
> ...


I think you're on a hiding for nothing. That no matter what you put in, you'll never get the return you want.

How long would you work for your employer if they not only didn't pay you at the end of the month but also kicked you in the goolies and threatened your life with a knife?

How long would you continue trading with a person who you know for a fact has bad credit? That just like your wife they are bankrupt in that they never pay their dues.

How long will you be a fool for love? Just how much must she abuse you and others around you before it’s too much?


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You are afraid of being two years alone? Would you prefer to live with a homicidal maniac, wondering if every meal is poisoned, that every time you sleep you might wake up castrated? File a police report. Get an order of protection. Get her out of your crib. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to divorce. The judge will order her to receive much-needed counseling and there will be jail time looming over her head to help her keep her violent tendencies in check. I personally wouldn't continue hanging with someone I might have to shoot. Better to live alone in peace in a cardboard box under the interstate overpass. It's easy enough to get killed in this world without intentionally hanging out with a violent psychopath.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> Better to live alone in peace in a cardboard box under the interstate overpass


...than to rest alone in peace in a cardboard box under the dirt!

BTW, I thought it was VERY TELLING that even HER PARENTS did not approve of her acting like a kept woman with some man in his '50s. Apparently HER behavior is NOT THE NORM in her family; being a greedy, grasping, avaricious, violent b1tch appears to be frowned upon in her family.

I think THEY'D AGREE -- she's nuts (certifiable).


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> .BTW, I thought it was VERY TELLING that even HER PARENTS did not approve of her acting like a kept woman with some man in his '50s. Apparently HER behavior is NOT THE NORM in her family; being a greedy, grasping, avaricious, violent b1tch appears to be frowned upon in her family.


Perhaps she was the mistress:scratchhead:... I was wondering about that.


----------



## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

you are the one really pulling the strings though aren't you sqrt?


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

bribrius said:


> you are the one really pulling the strings though aren't you sqrt?


What do you mean bribrius? If you mean how much my action affect her's, I realize how much of her emotions are responding to me. I'm reading up on the message boards postings regarding NGs, and I'm regretting not finding them sooner.

For example, read this piece from the NMMNG forum. Absolutely golden.

Women, Trust, and Sexual Desire - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I think you two are slightly toxic to each other. 

Go rent War of the Roses. Don't let that happen to you.


----------



## KhienHan (Sep 30, 2012)

sqrt314 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I started this discussion in the Divorce and Seperation panel and almost hijacked a thread there. I am moving it here and would like to hear from guys what you think. It's a loooong story. We are in mid-20s, married for 4 years. Most of the time she was a student and we were in a distant relationship.
> 
> ...


Hi, Sqrt314,

1st of all, I worried your marriage relationship right now, my opinion is, you must 1st reduce your daily working hours and accompany her more...she needs your love...

Btw, have you talked to your parents-in-law? Or I might suggest you sending her back to your in-law house. Let your parents-in-law taking care her even though you have reduced your daily working hours. You can have dinner with her and family-in-law daily. During weekend bring her out for dating...

If you can afford, you can send her for a course, ie cooking class and etc, let her fill up her times with her own hobby...

Don't give up yet. 
<<"I feel we are both very hurt. I don't know if I should talk to her first, or wait for her 180 style.">> 
Don't wait for her 180 style, it will worsen your relationship. I guess you also hard to talk to her right now. As I say, talk to your parent-in-law, do not hide this issue from them. They live together longer with your wife than you do. They might be able to solve your problem better because by knowing their daughter more than you.

As I always remind to myself, marriage is an intimate relationship of two people which keeps them connected together. It is a union of not only two individuals, but also of two different backgrounds and cultures.


----------



## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

FalconKing said:


> I knew it.
> 
> There is a similar thread of a guy who has a Japanese wife. *I'm not trying to disrespect any cultures*. But you just described the typical troubled dynamics of western and asian marriage. *All women like a men with status but it's even more prominent in asian cultures*. Hence the sugar daddy. Your wife is incompetent of domestic duties but still feels she has the right to demand certain things of you. That's because she is spoiled and has little interest in catering to a man. You have to cater to her. You are a man. Therefore you should be able to take any verbal or physical punishment she gives you. If you cannot then she is not at fault. You are just weak. Any sense of trying to find common ground is negated *because culturally a lot of asian women view marriage as a business agreement*. Meaning they attempt to gain as much as possible while giving as little as possible. That's why she is being so stubborn. She doesn't want to give anything to you because she is just feels you should just give to her. That's also why her attitude is emasculating towards you. She just wants you to submit to her will and what she wants.* I cringe everytime I hear someone say an asian wife is submissive*.
> 
> *Not all asian women are like this*. But you would be surprised how books like "His and Her needs" will not even apply to a lot of other cultures concepts of marriage.


OK Falcon, you scared me a bit there...

First, "*I'm not trying to disrespect any cultures*" -- gotcha, I think that this is just Falcon's opinion, not a universal wisdom.

"*All women like a men with status but it's even more prominent in asian cultures*" -- This sounds just about right. I didn't even realize this. I know it's true that asian females are more feminine in general, thus this behavior (might very well be the core of the crises I'm facing right now).

"*...business agreement*" -- This seems more like an undercurrent in a typical Asian (or East Asian) culture. I don't think you can take this for granted and 98.314159% of the women there probably do not subscribe to this view. However, with it being "undercurrent", you as a caucasian male grown up in Western culture probably wouldn't have any idea to sense that this is a dysfunction rather than convential wisdom there. (I.e. I'm saying that gold diggers are not 100% majority of chicks there).

"*I cringe everytime I hear someone say an asian wife is submissive*" -- caveat emptor. Eventhough I'm in a deep sheet myself, I think I regard most Asian women are pretty tame.

And again, my knowledge of the culture is pretty good but I'm not of East Asian descent...

Basically, I am saying what OP's facing is not a normal husband-wife interaction even for East Asian settings. My US$ .02 opinion is (obviously); 1. Fix it, or 2. Break it. Fixing it means you start demanding decent contribution and behavior from her and some changes are needed from yourself too.


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

I received some very wise inputs from the NMMNG forums.

From Kodiak:


> Your wife may be bat**** crazy. She may be a borderline, or she may be bipolar. She might be a spoiled brat. It doesn't matter. You have to get yourself straight before you can resolve your marriage issues. Once you get your own behaviors and thought patterns on the right track, you will be able to lead her to where you want your marriage to be, or you will be able to end the marriage.


From ConfidenceMan:


> Right now your motivate to recover appears to be to save your marriage or improve the interactions in your marriage. That is the wrong reason. You should want to recover for the purpose of being a better you. Your marriage may not survive. You may find that you will have to make decisions that favor you over your marriage.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

BookOfJob said:


> OK Falcon, you scared me a bit there...
> 
> "*...business agreement*" -- This seems more like an undercurrent in a typical Asian (or East Asian) culture. I don't think you can take this for granted and 98.314159% of the women there probably do not subscribe to this view. However, with it being "undercurrent", you as a caucasian male grown up in Western culture probably wouldn't have any idea to sense that this is a dysfunction rather than convential wisdom there. (I.e. I'm saying that gold diggers are not 100% majority of chicks there).
> 
> ...


I understand that my post was unpleasant. But how do you think I knew that his wife was asian? It's because i've seen this before. Also, I think you misunderstood a bit about some things I was saying. 

When I say business agreement I don't mean necessarily marrying for money. I mean that some look at marriage in the same sense you look at a business. There are roles to play in day to day duties but there little to no interest of romance, passion, or sometimes even sex. The husband works. The wife is the caretaker. When he makes the money he gives his entire paycheck to her and she distributes it(this happens often). Also, in a business agreement you look to gain the most while giving up the least you can. This leads to battles of control in marriages. 

Also, a lot of asian cultures do not have much in the way of marriage counseling. So unhealthy ideas or dynamics tend to not get resolved. 

I'm speaking from what i've seen, read, and experienced. But if you are saying 98% of the women do not subscribe to this view well I'm not sure. Maybe you are right. Most foreigners who date women in their respective countries are dating women who have a strong command of the english language or are actively seeking out foreign men. Asian women studying abroad either come from affluent families or just have a strong interest in other cultures. If you have a strong command of the country's language maybe that also gives you a wider dating pool and maybe easier to weed out unfavorable prospects. 

I lived in Asia for a few years, most of my friends are asian and I've dated asian women. They beginning of this month I took an 18 day vacation there. From the behavior of his wife, I knew it when I called it. But if you don't think i'm on to something, take a look at this. This is from a Psychologist. Look at the case illustrations and how you could apply it to the OP's situation. This is from China(I don't know if his wife is Chinese). But I have seen similar acts of behavior and experiences with Japanese and Korean spouses being married to westerners. 

narcissistic-types-chinese-women

OP how do you know about your wife's life in her home country and relationship with her parents? Also, was she the OW when she dated the older gentlemen?


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

> OP how do you know about your wife's life in her home country and relationship with her parents? Also, was she the OW when she dated the older gentlemen?


All your guesses are correct.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Well if you take anything from what I said it's that your situation isn't unique. It's sad though. But you are not inadequate in anyway. You are and your wife do not have to same values in marriage. Did you take a look at the article?


----------



## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Say mate, if you're working 60 hours a week and your wife stays at home why are you cooking dinner and doing house chores? WTF dude, what does this woman do for you other than injuries and homicide attempts?


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

FalconKing said:


> Well if you take anything from what I said it's that your situation isn't unique. It's sad though. But you are not inadequate in anyway. You are and your wife do not have to same values in marriage. Did you take a look at the article?


I did, and I'm shaking my head sadly right now. I think she is shameless enough to not give a damn or get out. I'm looking for another place to stay for the short term.


----------



## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

She obviously has control mangement issues and as someone earlier said that once he read she pulled out the knife he stopped reading. Well I did the same and would only advise to cut our loses now and move on. Hopefully she gets counseling and will move on as we'll. Good luck.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't agree with that but with your situation it seems quite understandable. She will not relent anything to you. So you asking her to leave can easily turn into a yell match and a physical altercation on her part. She has little respect towards you and has not interest in your feelings or points of views. Nothing you do will make her happy because she is flawed in the way that she will always want more because she feels she deserves it. When you can't provide what she wants you are an enemy to her and your best intentions be damned.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

sqrt314 said:


> I did, and I'm shaking my head sadly right now. I think she is shameless enough to not give a damn or get out. I'm looking for another place to stay for the short term.


I don't agree with that but with your situation it seems quite understandable. She will not relent anything to you. So you asking her to leave can easily turn into a yell match and a physical altercation on her part. She has little respect towards you and has not interest in your feelings or points of views. Nothing you do will make her happy because she is flawed in the way that she will always want more because she feels she deserves it. When you can't provide what she wants you are an enemy to her and your best intentions be damned.


----------



## sqrt314 (Jun 14, 2011)

FalconKing said:


> I don't agree with that but with your situation it seems quite understandable. She will not relent anything to you. So you asking her to leave can easily turn into a yell match and a physical altercation on her part. She has little respect towards you and has not interest in your feelings or points of views. Nothing you do will make her happy because she is flawed in the way that she will always want more because she feels she deserves it. When you can't provide what she wants you are an enemy to her and your best intentions be damned.


Or that she is still not taking the whole situation seriously yet. Maybe this is all a game to her: she feels confident that I will want her approval and that I will try everything to get her back, so she plays her tantrum a little longer.


----------



## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

FalconKing said:


> Well if you take anything from what I said it's that your situation isn't unique. It's sad though. But you are not inadequate in anyway. You are and your wife do not have to same values in marriage. Did you take a look at the article?


Boy, Falcon, is that article an eye opener or what? It took a while to sink in but again, my advice to Square is this, in many places in the article, the author says, "personal observation", and "not all women". You will need to really hold on to that. I would point out, in my personal opinion, that this is still a dysfunction and this is *not* the norm. We, in this forum, has plenty dicussions on what "the sense of entitlement" will do to a marriage. I strongly believe that it is the fundamental problem to what is discussed in the article. Again, my personal opinion. It is sad, and unneccessary, to doom all intercultural marriages are a failure. It can't be true.

Some things (like "business agreement") do reverberate in other cultures in the region (like Southeast Asia, etc -- to my surprise!) but to a different degree. To lump them all in one stereotype is not accurate (e.g. patrilineal/matrilineal inheritance of wealth vary greatly from one tribe to another, even in one country, this creates different dynamics in male/female psychology). Marrying someone from a different culture will take extra time to understand the differences in perception. A very simple example would be saying "goodbye". In the country I am residing now, people say "be careful" as "goodbye". You can spend an hour discussing why she doesn't trust your judgement in the upcoming journey ahead while she really is saying "goodbye" in the native language (and translating it into English). This is the kind of dynamics people need to give room to.

All I am saying is that the article, "should not be construed as dogmatic", as stated in "personal observation" and "not all women".



sqrt314 said:


> Or that she is still not taking the whole situation seriously yet. Maybe this is all a game to her: she feels confident that I will want her approval and that I will try everything to get her back, so she plays her tantrum a little longer.


One opinion, or one forum should be used only as an input only. The decision is yours. To end your marriage based on a singe advice is probably not a good idea. An advice I was given once is, "determine how far you can stomach the deficiencies in the marriage". No where in this discussion did I see any references to "counseling". Why not try it? The suggestions you pointed out from NMMNG forum are great. Why not do that while at the same time allow time to repair both of you. Sit her down (in a public place as the article stated), get her situated calmly and explain you're nearing the end of the line and you want changes, and you want to change yourself too. Best of luck buddy.


----------



## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Say mate, if you're working 60 hours a week and your wife stays at home why are you *cooking dinner* and doing house chores? WTF dude, what does this woman do for you other than injuries and homicide attempts?


Stop/cut down cooking dinner would be #4 in my 7-point list
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/56922-suggestions-upping-alpha-2.html#post1098271

Looking back at my own M, though, this is one of the areas I failed. Such price to pay.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

BookOfJob, As I stated before I am all for intercultural/interracial. But with things like what happened to OP, i'm just pointing out that...they happen. Not all women are like this that is for sure! I never said that. I just pointed out that this frustrating dynamic occurs at times. And I pointed out that it sometimes is due to cultural expectations of marriage. Marriage meant something different to her. This is based on my personal observations as well. We are who we are as people. But based on where we live, on the average some cultures may have more or less of people that are independent, family oriented, arrogant, passive, humble..etc.. Some cultures are prone to have more men that are abusive and more women doing a bait and switch. I would still date or marry an asian woman(or any woman) from another country. But we would have to communicate about our expectations in marriage and I would understand that initially we may not view it the same way. You just have to have some understanding of the culture to know what questions to ask. Often than not we can be blindsided because we are using how we think and feel to rational the behavior of others. This happens even if we do want the same things in marriage. Some cultures have lower divorce rates but that doesn't mean they have better marriages. Some cultures find divorce completely embarrassing and so no matter how horrible and toxic a marriage is they just tough it out. I am just pointing that out if anyone thinks lower divorce rate automatically means more successful marriages.


----------

