# Understanding the pain



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I know this post is not going to sit well with most WS here but in my opinion there seems to be a lot of difficulty understanding the pain the BS goes through after an affair is discovered. I know the WS is dealing with a lot of intense emotions such as guilt, shame, remorse, regret. But there seems to be a definite disconnect that I thought I'd address. While I am not the most intelligent or articulate person here on TAM I thought I’d try to describe the way my wife and I have come to understand the difference and how we related it to each other.

A person who has an affair does indeed have to deal with a lot of pain in the aftermath. They have to reevaluate their own identity and who they really are and their willingness to cause so much suffering to their loved ones. The statements “it’s just not in me to cheat” and “I could never do that” are in direct conflict with their actions. They have to come to the painful conclusion that they indeed are not the absolute good person they thought they were. They have to realize that there was something in them that allowed them to be selfish and cruel to the person or people they most cherished. And the scariest part is that they have to realize that since they’ve done it once they can do it again. Those self examinations are extremely difficult but necessary if the WS wants to become the person they always thought they already were and hope to actually become.

Here is where it gets hard for as much difficulty the WS has to go through they truly cannot comprehend the pain and anguish the BS has to endure. I want you to understand and remember two words. These are two very important words and it will help you to understand what your spouse is probably feeling even if they can’t express it. When they discovered your affair…YOU DIED! Let me say it again…YOU DIED! The person that your husband/wife married is gone forever. Think about a time when you lost someone really close to you. A father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter, or spouse. Think of the grief that you had to deal with. That is the same grief that your spouse has to deal with each and every day. Every day that they wake up after D-Day you die again and they feel it again and it's just as intense. The feelings of loneliness, hopelessness, yes…anger (why did you leave me?) Can you even imagine the pain that he/she is going through? Probably not. Because you are the one that had died and they are the one that is left to pick up the pieces of a shattered life that was taken from. They are the ones that are left to deal with the loss of a loved one.

But here is the sick part. You are still here; but you aren’t! You are a doppelganger, a clone, an evil twin. You are the one that killed your spouse’s cherished love. You took the love of his/her life away forever violently and without mercy. You stabbed them, mutilated them, burned them and ultimately buried them. You are the monster that has torn up a family. You are the monster that has committed such a senseless heinous act. You are a murderer! And here's the part that most WS miss. You were aware of your actions. You stalked your husband/wife's spouse. You planned how to do it. You conspired with another murderer (the OM/OW) and you finally struck without warning and without honor. The BS was left in shock and dismay watching their cherished lover, friend, partner, confidant bleed to death in the street. They felt hopeless and helpless as the person they loved most in the world was taken from them. Their world...you...died that day.

And you want the grieving person to forgive you. Love you. Stay with you. Think about that for a minute. You, the pod person, the evil clone, the look alike murderer that destroyed the one person in life that your spouse cherished beyond all time and space want the sorrow filled, grief stricken, angry and injured beyond belief person to LOVE YOU? They had this involuntarily inflicted upon them. They had no choice. Only pain. And now you want them to choose to love you. Can you imagine going up to the person that murdered your loved one and choosing to love them?

Now you have a little glimpse into the psyche of your betrayed spouse. You also know why I always tell people that the old marriage is dead and the couple must learn to love each other as new…if they can. It is also why I recommend the betrayed spouse read “Just Let Them Go” even if they want to reconcile. Because you truly have to let the cheating spouse go in order to learn to hopefully love the new version of your husband/wife. It’s hard and it’s painful and it can only be done if the WS does everything to make the BS fall in love with them again.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Great post but I just wanted to touch on something you said:

_And you want the grieving person to forgive you. Love you. Stay with you. Think about that for a minute. You, the pod person, the evil clone, the look alike murderer that destroyed the one person in life that your spouse cherished beyond all time and space want the sorrow filled, grief stricken, angry and injured beyond belief person to LOVE YOU? _

Not all WS want to continue the marriage or to be forgiven or for the BS to stay with them. 

A lot of them leave and never look back.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You're right Jelly but I don't think he was referring to those WS.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Noted.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I think that was well said. I tried to tell my wife that I felt our marriage was dead our old life was dead and if we had anything going forward it was going to have to be a rebuild from scratch. It was hard for me to imagine that she did not think about what she was doing to us to me! 

The range of emotions and anger that I have felt is unimagineable and is so hard to describe to anyone that has not been through it.

I do not want to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life that the person I love is not completed comitted to me but that is what is going to happen. If I stay with my wife or if It ends and I have to start again. I know I can never trust with my whole heart again.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

mahike said:


> I think that was well said. I tried to tell my wife that I felt our marriage was dead our old life was dead and if we had anything going forward it was going to have to be a rebuild from scratch. It was hard for me to imagine that she did not think about what she was doing to us to me!
> 
> The range of emotions and anger that I have felt is unimagineable and is so hard to describe to anyone that has not been through it.
> 
> I do not want to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life that the person I love is not completed comitted to me but that is what is going to happen. If I stay with my wife or if It ends and I have to start again. I know I can never trust with my whole heart again.


I completely understand what you're saying. It is hard to express the emotions that the BS feels which I why I tried to do it here. Since starting posting on TAM I have had to relive a lot of the feelings and pain that I did when I found out about my wife's affair. But since it was 20 years ago I feel I'm in a better position with more emotional distance so I can try to put those feelings into words that will hopefully help WS understand what they BS is feeling.

And yes Jelly I was speaking specifically of WS that want to reconcile but even some who decide to split seem to want forgiveness for their actions. I understand that even less.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Wow...

My first serious relationship ended when he passed away (suicide) almost 11 years ago. I went through counseling, went through all the stages of grief...

My current fiance came clean and told me he cheated on me while I was pregnant with our daughter. It was a ONS..well he persued this chick for a week (she knew all about me) and he slept with her and they haven't spoken since..so I guess you can still call that a ONS..

anyway...I had no idea until 3 months after it happened and when he came clean...I felt like I did when my first boyfriend died. And ever since I feel like I am going through all the stages of grief over again. Our relationship, how special I thought it was, how special I thought he was...how much I thought he loved me..all tainted..all those feelings and thoughts died the second he told me what he did. 

We are still together, I hate him and love him all at once. I imagine I will feel this way for a long time to come. 

But yeah...again..wow. You nailed it.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I am at a lost for words. Great insight Beowulf


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## frazaled (Jan 20, 2012)

wow thankyou , you have just but into words everything i have been feeling and have been unable to explain to hubby , I thought he had killed everything i beleaved in when really he just killed the man i loved, can iI and do I love the newer him yes but it dosn't lessen my grief for what gone.


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

It's strange because I was thinking of something like this today. It occurred to me that if my soon-to-be-ex physically died, I wouldn't feel much of anything at all, besides the necessity to get my kids through it. I realized that for me, her passing has already happened in some sense... I know now that she was gone years ago.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Awesome post. I take a lot from that even though my OH didn't have a full-blown affair. The betrayal I felt at the things he did do, the lying, secrecy and feelings for the OW did make me feel like he had died and there was someone else here in his body.

The trouble is that he thinks he still is that person from before. But to me he is not and never will be. I've gotten used to the new one. He is different but in good ways I think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

My WS tried to kill herself a few months after I found out about the affair. She was still deep in the clutches of alcoholism and I had given up and told her to move out. 

She went to rehab and came out new. She said that old person died that day and she is here to live again, no more cheating, no more drinking (sober 2.5 years now).

I see this new person and I am hopeful she has changed. The problem is she looks a lot like the cheating, drunk wife I had to deal with for 5 years. That's something I am having issues letting go.

Mahike, I completely get what you are saying. I can't find it in me to love her with my whole heart like I did before. I can't let myself be hurt that bad again and if I hold back I feel I am limiting my hurt when/if she does it again. The thing I realize is I can't truly be happy with her until I can give her my whole heart. Stuck in a rut here I can't get out of...


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Zak68 said:


> Mahike, I completely get what you are saying. I can't find it in me to love her with my whole heart like I did before. I can't let myself be hurt that bad again and if I hold back I feel I am limiting my hurt when/if she does it again. The thing I realize is I can't truly be happy with her until I can give her my whole heart. Stuck in a rut here I can't get out of...


I hope I will someday be able to forgive and forget, at this point it still looks a long way off.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Great post... I told my WW something very similar shortly after DDay -- she is a murderer of the woman I thought I was married to. 

I drew a pretty harsh comparison to when she lost her mother to cancer... told her to now imagine if her mom had consciously _chosen_ the cancer, how angry she would be. I feel it's something like that.

But I also think she killed ME. The person I was before DDay is no longer the person *I* am now as a result of all this... so she killed two people (and at least one if not two marriages). 

And I resent it because I _liked _who I was before, and cannot come to grips with how she now views this hurt, resentful, angry, betrayed man as someone she wants to be with, when the man who I was before wasn't good enough for her not to cheat.

So it seems it is time to go separate ways. So sad.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

wow this is good. I have moments where I think I am good, then others that I feel like I may die on the inside. I constantly feel like a horrible person and can't come to terms with why I can't just forgive and forget. 
I haven't considered that I died too. I have known I'm different but didn't look at it this way until now. Thanks for shedding light.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Thank you Beowulf. That's a beautiful description of what I imagine it's like.

Nice work.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

Very well said, Beowulf. Thanks for your post. I think it would help a lot of WSs (who actually want to stay and work it out) to read this. Part of their recovery involves protecting themselves and sometimes it's hard to see how their behavior has affected the other person. If they choose to protect their fractured marriages over their exposed egos, this would be a useful bit of insight into the suffering the BSs go through.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Excellent post Beowulf,I didnt think my wifes EA would be so damn hard to get over since the physical part didnt take place,yes they met up a few times,pleaded with her to cut it off but she refused,it took me kicking her out to make her see the light,its been 7 weeks since she's been back and I'm still stuggling.......sucks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## still_in_love (Apr 17, 2012)

I never thought of it that way, but it is so true, i wish i could have told my husband that, i tried in so many to explain how i feel but couldnt.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Very well spoken my friend.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

in simplest terms, you're a shell of the person you used to be.

i don't think one ever truly recovers from the pain, you just learn to cope in the aftermath.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

cledus_snow said:


> in simplest terms, you're a shell of the person you used to be.
> 
> i don't think one ever truly recovers from the pain, you just learn to cope in the aftermath.


I think as humans, we are able to choose what we hold on to and what we let go. Sometimes the choosing is easier, and sometimes its harder, but at the end of the day, its still a choice. 

For instance, I can take your analogy and:

"In simple terms, you can shed the shell that kept you trapped in the aftermath and pain, grow as a person, and learn better ways to cope"

You like?

I've been playing with the popular "Red Pill" "Blue Pill" concept that is mentioned on these boards so often. There is always an implication of a binary choice, one or the other, when in fact, the majority of our lives are a combination of the two. Convincing yourself that something is a certain way "blue pill" is a gift, or better yet, a tool, to help us become better people and let go of things that hold us back. There are some interesting studies on how the human brain does this to minimize damage during traumatic events. "Red Pill" implies a universal truth, a "true" truth, and I have my doubts that such a thing exists. Even the color red, light bounces off of it, hits your eye, converts to a wavelength. When you are finally old enough to ask what that is called, you are told 'R E D' but there is absolutely no proof that you and I "see" the color the same way. If your optic nerve is a millimeter shorter than mine, the wavelength will be slightly different when interpreted by your brain. 


edit: apologies for hijack attempt, reply to the above in PMs if interested, I will start a new thread if there are enough people sending PMs


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## cantdecide (Apr 9, 2012)

Zak68 said:


> Mahike, I completely get what you are saying. I can't find it in me to love her with my whole heart like I did before. I can't let myself be hurt that bad again and if I hold back I feel I am limiting my hurt when/if she does it again. The thing I realize is I can't truly be happy with her until I can give her my whole heart. Stuck in a rut here I can't get out of...


I'm stuck in that exact same rut !!


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

She Died to me that day, and that is the truth. I will remember forever that moment when it happened. It is only with a little hindsight that I can look back and see that from that singular betrayal of the heart that it was all over. 
Thank you f0r this. It is so accurate.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I wish I had seen this at the beginning of out R. H says he will never be able to understand how
Much pain he has caused me and he has hurt me, this would have explained it perfectly.
We are doing well so I don't want to keep going over old ground but If I feel the need to discuss this with him again this post will really help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Berilo (Aug 2, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> When they discovered your affair…YOU DIED! Let me say it again…YOU DIED! The person that your husband/wife married is gone forever. ....
> 
> The feelings of loneliness, hopelessness, yes…anger (why did you leave me?) Can you even imagine the pain that he/she is going through? Probably not. Because you are the one that had died and they are the one that is left to pick up the pieces of a shattered life that was taken from. They are the ones that are left to deal with the loss of a loved one.
> 
> ...


Very well said, Beowulf. I am hurting a lot today, so I re-read your note. The quotes above are bang-on in my case: she's died, and her evil twin is taunting me. 

But my WS wouldn't or couldn't do what it would take to make me fall in love with her again and exorcise the evil twin.


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## glerry12 (Apr 17, 2012)

Wonderful post to read. Thank you for sharing it with us.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Wulf I just read this. Cannot believe I passed this over without glancing at it. 

Great stuff. I'm tempted to copy it and send it to my STBXW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Wulf I just read this. Cannot believe I passed this over without glancing at it.
> 
> Great stuff. I'm tempted to copy it and send it to my STBXW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is she worth it????


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

cledus_snow said:


> in simplest terms, you're a shell of the person you used to be.
> 
> i don't think one ever truly recovers from the pain, you just learn to cope in the aftermath.


I think this comment is very true, it is something that never leaves a person. It leads me to wonder how people can even move forward after an affair, and "start over" with a new marriage. Even if a WS shows complete remorse, does everything they need to, does it really make the BS feel secure in their marriage, can they ever forget the pain they went through??

Just wondering I guess.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

wt-
I dont thinks it so much about starting over as much as it starting new.
This crap is life changing stuff.

Great thread beowulf


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

working_together said:


> I think this comment is very true, it is something that never leaves a person. It leads me to wonder how people can even move forward after an affair, and "start over" with a new marriage. Even if a WS shows complete remorse, does everything they need to, does it really make the BS feel secure in their marriage, can they ever forget the pain they went through??
> 
> Just wondering I guess.


I don't look at it as forgetting the pain. I look at it like a lesson learned. Sometimes the lesson is a painful one. Trust can be rebuilt with work and time. Love recovers if you work on reconnecting and allowing old resentments to fade. For Morrigan and I it really was the death of a marriage and the birth of a new one. Not in the sense of completely different people. Of course we still had commonalities left from our original marriage. More like the rebirth of a Phoenix from the ashes of the old. Or as Morrigan likes to view it "new saplings that sprout and grow after the carnage and destruction of a forest fire." She is very nature oriented.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

working_together said:


> I think this comment is very true, it is something that never leaves a person. It leads me to wonder how people can even move forward after an affair, and "start over" with a new marriage. Even if a WS shows complete remorse, does everything they need to, does it really make the BS feel secure in their marriage, can they ever forget the pain they went through??
> 
> Just wondering I guess.


On good days I say, yes, the BS can feel secure in the new marriage, not sure how or what the point of forgetting the pain would be tho. I dont think I will ever _forget_ the pain, I'm working to forgive it tho. On bad nights (tonight) I worry that I wont even be able to let it go, but I want to try. I dont think forgetting is necessary for moving forward. Letting go certainly is. On bad nights I find the task monumental and insurmountable. Who knows what will happen in the end? I never forgot the time I fell of my bike and broke my elbow, it hurt bad, I didnt stop riding bikes tho.


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## Cheezits be tasty (Jan 21, 2012)

Beowulf, thank you so much for putting all that into words, and for sharing it. I am finding it incredibly insightful and useful, and humbling all at once. It sounds spot on, and is what my husband (bs) has been trying to explain. Again, thank you.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I showed this to my WH tonight. I watched him read it with tears in his eyes. Ive been trying to explain just how I feel but you did it better. He read it and said " damnit" and just sat there quietly for a good while before finally saying a few things(really personal) that let me know he really does feel what he has done. One thing he did say that I will share, he said " So in your mind, I murdered your husband, that explains why you look thru me instead of at me sometimes because you dont look at me as your husband you see me as an imposter who stole your life. Jesus Christ." "I just need to know that its possible for you to forgive me, I will do what it takes as long as I know that possibility exists" 

I love him. I want to get back where we belong. Thanks Beo


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes Beowulf's post had a powerfull effect on my WW and many others I think,very well written and an eye opener for a lot of WS's
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Beowolf, you are far more eloquent than you give yourself credit for. You communicated the feelings that myself and so many others could not find. 

I look at him, and in my head, I think, "You used to be my hero. I am not sure that you ever will be again." But, we have more good days than bad at this point, so it's at least looking less bleak than before. 

When he gets home this time, I know that we will be spending some time away from family and kids to talk intimately. I plan on printing this for him to read. I hope that he will be open to your words and realize you have written our hearts for us in many cases.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

For me add to that: I found out nearly a year later that the guy works with me. All of that laughing behind my back. All of the planning. And the recovery is slow. It broke me. I am no longer the same person. Oh he is in there. I just hope he never comes out again. I don't want to be hurt like that again. I may not make it.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

This is how I feel.. TRULEY FEEL. Thank you for posting this. If only my Spouse would comprehend. 

"It’s hard and it’s painful and it can only be done if the WS does everything to make the BS fall in love with them again."

This sentence was a very powerful statement for me!! And it is were my husband is failing.. And failing hard. My feeling toward him changed, I am not in love with him anymore, I love him, but I am not IN love with him. Does that even make sense?????? I dont know who to explain how I feel. The old him is gone to me.. Can there be a new him, I dont know, I am at the point were I truley doubt it.. But I do know one thing, I am NOT IN LOVE with him. Can a person truley fall back in love with someone or possibly the wounds are to deep and thats not possible... I wish he would make me fall back in love with him. He just acts like nothing happened and I think that is making me fall more out of love with him than the Affair its self..... Does that make sense?? I think I am so lost and looking for a breather.. And I want to say to you great post!!!


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

There is only one word to describe this...

Brilliant

I've been telling him that it's like I don't even know who he is... but this says completely how I feel. I copied and printed. Thank you so much.


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## havana20 (Mar 5, 2012)

very accurate description on how the BS feels,,,,,but only it is compounded when the WS wont talk to you and doesnt come back,,,,and the BS keeps wondering whjy did this happen? and never get an answer....unbelievable pain,,,self doubt..lowered self esteem,,,,,and more


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> This is how I feel.. TRULEY FEEL. Thank you for posting this. If only my Spouse would comprehend.
> 
> "It’s hard and it’s painful and it can only be done if the WS does everything to make the BS fall in love with them again."
> 
> This sentence was a very powerful statement for me!! And it is were my husband is failing.. And failing hard. My feeling toward him changed, I am not in love with him anymore, I love him, but I am not IN love with him. Does that even make sense?????? I dont know who to explain how I feel. The old him is gone to me.. Can there be a new him, I dont know, I am at the point were I truley doubt it.. But I do know one thing, I am NOT IN LOVE with him. Can a person truley fall back in love with someone or possibly the wounds are to deep and thats not possible... I wish he would make me fall back in love with him. He just acts like nothing happened and I think that is making me fall more out of love with him than the Affair its self..... Does that make sense?? I think I am so lost and looking for a breather.. And I want to say to you great post!!!


I so get where you are at. My wife was the WS, I found out back in April of 2009. Back then she was still suffering from alcoholism and it was with my best friend of 6 years. I took her back and we tried to make it work but the drinking was still there. By September I was done and told her to leave. She tried to kill herself the next day. I came home to her passed out on our bed, an empty bottle of vodka and 2 bottles of sleeping pills laying next to her. She survived and went into rehab for 3 months. She got out, lived with her mom and we tried to work things out (I often visited her in rehab). Dec of 2009 I took her back.

I saw the woman I loved was coming back now that she was sober. I get the "love you but not IN love with you", that's how I feel. She still sober to this day and we are together. I find myself numb when I think of our marriage. It still sickens me to think she did that. She said that was another person and she's different now. I told her it doesn't matter, she made the decision to break our vows and I don't trust her. She asked how she could get the trust back and I told her I just don't know. Time is the only thing I ask for.

There's not a day that goes by where I don't think about it in some way and it just brings it all back up. Even sex reminds me as I picture him and her together. All the pain and humiliation. I do love her, we just shared our 19th anniversary and we have a lifetime of memories to remind me I was IN love with her at one time. I just keep hoping I can rid myself of this pain in time.

Trust, I don't know if I can ever trust her that way again. Trust is fragile and needs to be earned. I wish she worked harder on building that trust. I appreciate her giving me room but a little effort on her part could go a long way.


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## havana20 (Mar 5, 2012)

so what do you doif the WH doesnt have any contact with me the BW? how do i move on? how do i forget?


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

Realize it is not you, it was the WH. They may say it was our fault but we never made them do anything. Often they will push the blame on the BS to ease their guilt.

Moving on? It's hard to give up on a marriage. I stayed in mine when my head said leave and my heart said stay. Realize you have love and life to give and there will be someone you can share that love and life with. Trusting another may be hard because you might push your mistrust on them. Just realize that they deserve a chance, just like you do.

My mom cheated on my dad and to this day he refuses to date. I told him he can't live in fear of what might happen. Shutting himself off from finding another person to share his life with is letting her win.

If you have reminders of your WH betrayal just keep in mind you are free of that mess. Let someone else deal with him and always have to wonder if/when he will do it again.


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## havana20 (Mar 5, 2012)

good advice Zak,,,but even at my age its possible to start again?im 52 yrs old and have to wait 1 yr to start divorce proceedings


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

havana why don't you start your own thread? the responses you get will be faster and more robust


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## havana20 (Mar 5, 2012)

im still in love with my husband,,,we had 16 yrs together


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## havana20 (Mar 5, 2012)

i did it was called Why?
only got 3 respponses


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

Needs a longer name I suspect


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

havana20 said:


> good advice Zak,,,but even at my age its possible to start again?im 52 yrs old and have to wait 1 yr to start divorce proceedings


Use that year to focus on you. Think of what you have to offer and look foward to the many years you have ahead of you and the possibility of sharing it with someone you can love and trust.

My grandmother remarried at 55 after she and my grandfather got a divorce due to his cheating (man there's a bad habit of that in my family, lol). Her 2nd husband was a wonderful man that she loved for 14 years before he died. She would have never met him had she not let go and given herself a chance to love again.


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## havana20 (Mar 5, 2012)

wow,,,thats good to hear...i guess its just to fresh yet in my life to see that it is possible,,,i poured some much of myself into him
the Just let them go article is really eye opening


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

It's hard to let go when it wasn't your idea to ruin the marriage in the first place. You were/are still in love, they let go the moment they betrayed us. Repairing it comes from them working to see it repaired and being patient while we heal.

Like any wound, love leaves scars. They don't disappear when the wound heals and occasionally we see them and are reminded of the pain caused when the wound was opened.


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## havana20 (Mar 5, 2012)

oh wow......how do u ease the pain? i think about him all the time?
i look to God for relief,,He has helped me thru some pretty awful days along with my best friend


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

The pain has decreased these last 3 years but I still get reminded of it. I'd be lying if I said I believed in our ability to move past this. I'm one of those with kids that decided a stable home for them was more important than my happiness. I love her but I question if I believe in a marriage without trust. I just don't know the answer to that one.
I take it one day at a time and figure time will tell if I was right to stay or wrong. I felt she deserved a chance being sober and she has been true to her sobriety. I just don't know how I will feel if she ever relapses. If she does all the pain will surface anew because I will wonder if she will stray again. I just hope she doesn't for her sake and our marriage.


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## havana20 (Mar 5, 2012)

i hope so for your sake too

mine hasnt spoke to me since he left 4 months ago,,,and we have a son,,,13 yrs old,,,he saw him once in 4 months


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Thank you so much for writing this. I was so sad and couldn't stop crying until I read this post in it's entirety. My D-day was on August 17th so it's very fresh in my mind. At this point, I don't think either of us wants to reconcile. He's still in denial and I can't be with him so long as he plays the victim role. This is horrible for me because I'm 36 1/2 weeks pregnant with our second child.

This is the first time I've ever been betrayed and I do hope it's the last. I am crushed.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Miss Taken said:


> Thank you so much for writing this. I was so sad and couldn't stop crying until I read this post in it's entirety. My D-day was on August 17th so it's very fresh in my mind. At this point, I don't think either of us wants to reconcile. He's still in denial and I can't be with him so long as he plays the victim role. This is horrible for me because I'm 36 1/2 weeks pregnant with our second child.
> 
> This is the first time I've ever been betrayed and I do hope it's the last. I am crushed.


I haven't read this entire thread.... just this post. I just wanted to say that I am so sorry that you are going through this. So, so, sorry. :'(


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

awesome write-up, thanks for this.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

EI, read Beowulf's initial post. Should be required reading for any WS trying to reconcile. It may not fit B1's and your experience, but it seems to me to capture quite well some of the pain and difficulty, the hard and inescapable truth, the BS faces after passing through initial phases of devastation and confusion. I was looking at some pictures yesterday of my WS before the affair and my heart ached with the love I had, have for that girl -for the world the way it was before. That world is gone, that girl is gone, and now the BS has to decide whether to try to work out a marriage with the woman who took her place.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

They never quite understand, do they? Why can't we just move on? Why can't we just look past it? They never understand quite how... devalued we feel, how torn. How nervous, how upset, how saddened we are.

They can say that they understand, and maybe even imagine or believe that they understand... but I don't know that they do.


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## ImperfectMomma (May 2, 2012)

Awesome post. I hadn't thought of it like that but that is exactly it. Exactly. Thank you.


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## truthberry40 (Jul 14, 2012)

Wow. This really helps me clarify some feelings I've been having and up until now, haven't been able to put into words.

I've been wondering why even though it's now 8 months from Dday and he seems to be doing a lot of the right things, I feel like it's just hopeless in a way. I thought I was being overly negative! 

Now I see that's not the case. It DOES feel like an extreme act of violence -- against the man I thought he was, against me and against our marriage..a deathblow in fact. It is this feeling that makes my reconciliation so confusing! 

I have begun to realize that there is the very real possibility that I may never get over it enough to "give my whole heart again" (as Zak68 said)...and I just wonder where on earth that leaves us.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Ingalls said:


> wow this is good. I have moments where I think I am good, then others that I feel like I may die on the inside. I constantly feel like a horrible person and can't come to terms with why I can't just forgive and forget.
> I haven't considered that I died too. I have known I'm different but didn't look at it this way until now. Thanks for shedding light.


Absolutely...great post and great thread!

That is how I feel...why do I find it hard to get over what H did to me and at the same time why can't he understand how even though in his words, it was just stupid chit chat, he does not get how much this has devestated me and changed me. His stupid chit chat that he had twice with two different women has wrecked me inside. 

I am no longer the trusting person I was instead I am a paranoid person who checks and rechecks everything.

It is such a dichotomy between "poor me look at what my H did to me" and "get over it lady you are not a victim deal with it and become stronger because of it". I wrestle with that everyday.


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## nexgen (Mar 6, 2012)

I agree 100%


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> I know this post is not going to sit well with most WS here but in my opinion there seems to be a lot of difficulty understanding the pain the BS goes through after an affair is discovered. I know the WS is dealing with a lot of intense emotions such as guilt, shame, remorse, regret. But there seems to be a definite disconnect that I thought I'd address. While I am not the most intelligent or articulate person here on TAM I thought I’d try to describe the way my wife and I have come to understand the difference and how we related it to each other.
> 
> A person who has an affair does indeed have to deal with a lot of pain in the aftermath. They have to reevaluate their own identity and who they really are and their willingness to cause so much suffering to their loved ones. The statements “it’s just not in me to cheat” and “I could never do that” are in direct conflict with their actions. They have to come to the painful conclusion that they indeed are not the absolute good person they thought they were. They have to realize that there was something in them that allowed them to be selfish and cruel to the person or people they most cherished. And the scariest part is that they have to realize that since they’ve done it once they can do it again. Those self examinations are extremely difficult but necessary if the WS wants to become the person they always thought they already were and hope to actually become.
> 
> ...


This is so true and so well explained its scary and extremely powerful!


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## idkwhat (Oct 21, 2012)

horsesh!t. 
everyone who gets dumped seems to want to blame the straying spouse for the death of everything. it takes two people to make a marriage work, and i really find it hard to believe that all those grieving people DIDN'T SEE IT COMING. Didn't look at what their actions were which contributed to the break down. Hard to believe anyone got married to someone who stepped out the next day and had an affair.
Besides, perhaps what was is better off dead. Perhaps the phoenix which arises from the ashes is tempered and stronger and better with two heads in a much better understanding that BOTH are responsible for keeping a love alive. 

Furthermore, the WS probably saw it was dead a long time ago, which is why they found someone else to relate to......

sure it hurts, but wallowing in the pain without taking measures to work on your own shortcomings is not going to fix anything.
sounds more like DENIAL that anything was wrong or serious control issues thinking you had all the power to keep it together regardless of the spouse's needs.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

idkwhat said:


> horsesh!t.
> everyone who gets dumped seems to want to blame the straying spouse for the death of everything. it takes two people to make a marriage work, and i really find it hard to believe that all those grieving people DIDN'T SEE IT COMING. Didn't look at what their actions were which contributed to the break down. Hard to believe anyone got married to someone who stepped out the next day and had an affair.
> Besides, perhaps what was is better off dead. Perhaps the phoenix which arises from the ashes is tempered and stronger and better with two heads in a much better understanding that BOTH are responsible for keeping a love alive.
> 
> ...


Hmm, wonderful post. Pitifully, I lost you on phoenix though.

Although I have to say, the phoenix sure is going to rise a few months(or days) down the line....especially when it starts seeing the prettier chicks flapping their wings.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

idkwhat said:


> horsesh!t.
> everyone who gets dumped seems to want to blame the straying spouse for the death of everything. it takes two people to make a marriage work, and i really find it hard to believe that all those grieving people DIDN'T SEE IT COMING. Didn't look at what their actions were which contributed to the break down. Hard to believe anyone got married to someone who stepped out the next day and had an affair.
> Besides, perhaps what was is better off dead. Perhaps the phoenix which arises from the ashes is tempered and stronger and better with two heads in a much better understanding that BOTH are responsible for keeping a love alive.
> 
> ...


Interesting. A wayward spouse blaming the betrayed spouse for cheating.

That's new.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'll never deny that there are BS's out there that contributed largely to a crappy marriage

but the WS had a choice prior to having their affair

try to fix it
leave
have an affair

2 of those options are infinitely more honorable than the one


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

idkwhat said:


> horsesh!t.
> everyone who gets dumped seems to want to blame the straying spouse for the death of everything. it takes two people to make a marriage work, and i really find it hard to believe that all those grieving people DIDN'T SEE IT COMING. Didn't look at what their actions were which contributed to the break down. Hard to believe anyone got married to someone who stepped out the next day and had an affair.
> Besides, perhaps what was is better off dead. Perhaps the phoenix which arises from the ashes is tempered and stronger and better with two heads in a much better understanding that BOTH are responsible for keeping a love alive.
> 
> ...


So you didn't solve your dilemma to your satisfaction. Lashing out will not give you peace. You need help to heal. Work on it in counseling.


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## idkwhat (Oct 21, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I'll never deny that there are BS's out there that contributed largely to a crappy marriage
> 
> but the WS had a choice prior to having their affair
> 
> ...


okay,
1. try to fix it. honey something is wrong. spouse, no its not, i don't want to talk about it. what's your problem we r fine.

2. honey i am leaving this is not working out....spouse, what? how could you do this to me? i didn't know anything was wrong?

3. honey i am having an affair with someone else....spouse, what? how could you do this to me? i didn't know anything was wrong?


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## idkwhat (Oct 21, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Hmm, wonderful post. Pitifully, I lost you on phoenix though.
> 
> Although I have to say, the phoenix sure is going to rise a few months(or days) down the line....especially when it starts seeing the prettier chicks flapping their wings.


maybe i should have re worded, like 'when you get off your dead ash"


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## idkwhat (Oct 21, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> So you didn't solve your dilemma to your satisfaction. Lashing out will not give you peace. You need help to heal. Work on it in counseling.


actually, i got way more out of it than that. My actions absolutely DO go back to my marriage, what i have gleaned from here, and what my counselor has pointed out, and yep that does piss me off, because I worked very hard not to get sucked back into unhealthy behaviors of sycophant controllers. 

So my husband is about to get smacked with "you work on your side of your freaking street and clean up your unhealthy behaviors and quit trying to suck me back down into that mode of thinking or I am out of here"


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

idkwhat said:


> okay,
> 1. try to fix it. honey something is wrong. spouse, no its not, i don't want to talk about it. what's your problem we r fine.
> 
> 2. honey i am leaving this is not working out....spouse, what? how could you do this to me? i didn't know anything was wrong?
> ...



so stop at option 2 and leave if he isn't willing to work on problems and know that you gave it your best shot and hold your head up high

no you'd rather add more pain and suffering to the mix to get quick and easy self-satisfaction


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you can attempt to justify lots of things that are considered by most to be wrong and immoral but the bottom line is that it comes down to making the right choice as to how to react or deal with an injustice and having an affair is not the moral choice nor is it the helpful choice

I'll also add that due to the addicting nature of affairs and/or the desire to feel justified that many WS's will exaggerate problems, rewrite marital history or flat out vilify their spouse in order to feel that they are in the right.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

idkwhat said:


> actually, i got way more out of it than that. My actions absolutely DO go back to my marriage, what i have gleaned from here, and what my counselor has pointed out, and yep that does piss me off, because I worked very hard not to get sucked back into unhealthy behaviors of sycophant controllers.
> 
> So my husband is about to get smacked with "you work on your side of your freaking street and clean up your unhealthy behaviors and quit trying to suck me back down into that mode of thinking or I am out of here"


You're angry, you worked hard and you feel you failed. It happens, you're human. You can't predict the future and you can't control others. So here you are, wanting better. Learning as you go. That's what life is about. Don't let your anger control who you are, it will only lead to bad decisions and more drama in your life. You've had enough of that. 

Unfortunitly you're left with the final ultimatum. AR's option #2. I'm guessing you've done this with him before. This time follow through.


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## idkwhat (Oct 21, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> you can attempt to justify lots of things that are considered by most to be wrong and immoral but the bottom line is that it comes down to making the right choice as to how to react or deal with an injustice and having an affair is not the moral choice nor is it the helpful choice
> 
> I'll also add that due to the addicting nature of affairs and/or the desire to feel justified that many WS's will exaggerate problems, rewrite marital history or flat out vilify their spouse in order to feel that they are in the right.


so the way you see it, I am just "acting out". I don't believe I had a reaction, it didn't happen "the next day", it happened over time, it happens when your significant other is not there day after day to share your intimate thoughts and feelings. and some of us may be blamed for being "too compassionate" while we patiently, lovingly wait for that spouse to come back around and "see us". I suppose if i was a housewife sitting at home with 3 kids, it would even be probably considered premeditated to start talking to someone who is so far away from the reality of the situation, that you can let go of that kind of pain for a little while. 

however, i interact with a lot of people on a daily basis, and plenty are good professional friends that make my day. You all want to crucify me for developing feelings for someone, while i am still trying to process the very painful feelings of my marital "betrayal". 

If i didn't have confusion about this, I wouldn't have reached out to other people to see it from another perspective. I don't need people moralizing just because they are still in pain and anger because of what happened to them. but i will push these questions to see if anyone has insight and because it helps me work on my issue. 

so excuse me if you feel i am a lowly cheater, when most of this is just in my freaking head. i am getting the impression though, that "cheater" is a word used like when you are in a game. and the victim yells, "you cheated". i am not gaming. i want understanding.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

idkwhat, I think you are projecting too much what happened in your first marriage. Maybe too much al anom, fighting codependence readings. This new empowerment you feel obviously has make to lose empathy for other people's pain.
You can't believe BS didn't see it coming?, really? Can't believe some BS did goos in the marriage? Can't believe some, many waywards cheat just out of selfishness? Is more likely the wayward strayed due unhappines, something lacking in the BS rather they were way less invested in the relationship to begin with?
Hurting badly is wallowing in self pity?
I do believe you are still very angry at your first husband, you are using that anger to become now the abuser. This "I'm no a victim" attitude transformed in "I will be happy no matter how".
Very sad. To read a thread where someone express his pain only to tell them get over it you had it coming.


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## idkwhat (Oct 21, 2012)

Acabado said:


> idkwhat, I think you are projecting too much what happened in your first marriage. Maybe too much al anom, fighting codependence readings. This new empowerment you feel obviously has make to lose empathy for other people's pain.
> You can't believe BS didn't see it coming?, really? Can't believe some BS did goos in the marriage? *Can't believe some, many waywards cheat just out of selfishness? *Is more likely the wayward strayed due unhappines, something lacking in the BS rather they were way less invested in the relationship to begin with?
> Hurting badly is wallowing in self pity?
> I do believe you are still very angry at your first husband, you are using that anger to become now the abuser. This "I'm no a victim" attitude transformed in "I will be happy no matter how".
> Very sad. To read a thread where someone express his pain only to tell them get over it you had it coming.


perhaps i give everyone the benefit of the doubt that surely they would not intentionally marry someone who would be that "selfish" to begin with.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

IDK, your experiences do not supercede anyone else's. Period. Simply because you belive that no wayward is totally to blame doesn't make it so.

You don't want to believe that people can marry cheaters or be blindsided by an affair? Fine, no problem. But to ccome into here and tell people that they're wrong because YOU can't believe that is wrong.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> perhaps i give everyone the benefit of the doubt that surely they would not intentionally marry someone who would be that "selfish" to begin with.


 Again I smell too much codep reading. So.. you fully bought someting within you was wrong so you chose a mate wich eventually would be your abuser, alcoholic and so on.
Do you relly believe BS are mind readers? Is their blame to chose a mate who will cheat on them? They intentionally married cheaters? Is their blame for not seeing the clues, the "evident" selfishness? We should focus in finding out what's wrong in us to choose a mate who will cheat and stop feeling pity of ourselves?
New flash, for definition cheaters lie. It's a no brainer. Many cheaters hide, love the secret - double life, becuase they feel entitled too. They pretend. They take adventage of our trust, our love, they use/abuse that love against us. That's their game.
Then you, a cheater to begin with, come here to tell us is our blame the fact we allowed ourselves to be fooled. Obviously something must be wrong in us.
Still don't get that by definition betrayal means deceit. You put the blame squarely in the betrayed. Cheater's handbook page 1.

I believe as you sound so defiant on this you should start a thread with "Who's to blame" or something on that line so we stop spoiling this thread which is designed to help hurting people.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

idkwhat said:


> horsesh!t.
> everyone who gets dumped seems to want to blame the straying spouse for the death of everything. it takes two people to make a marriage work, and i really find it hard to believe that all those grieving people DIDN'T SEE IT COMING. Didn't look at what their actions were which contributed to the break down. Hard to believe anyone got married to someone who stepped out the next day and had an affair.
> Besides, perhaps what was is better off dead. Perhaps the phoenix which arises from the ashes is tempered and stronger and better with two heads in a much better understanding that BOTH are responsible for keeping a love alive.
> 
> ...


Stockholm syndrome!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Stonewall said:


> Stockholm syndrome!


No, self defense, idk is the cheater.

Your CHOICE to betray your spouse was yours, and yours alone. You chose to invest outside your primary relationship without ending it first. Why? Because you were selfish enough to do that. That fact has nothing to do with your spouse. If things were that bad, then you should have left, period, it is that black and white. NO GOOD COMES OF INFIDELITY. IT IS NEVER A REASONABLE OR GOOD CHOICE.

Should you, while trying to fix the marriage reach out for help, ideas, opinions? Yes, definitely. Should you be sharing intimate details of your marriage with a member of the opposite sex, no, not if they aren't a trained professional. Even with same sex people, you shouldn't really be sharing too widely. You should seek out competent, professional help. Or impersonal, anonymous help from people who have been there, done that (hello TAM!)

At some point in the development of your affair you surely knew it was wrong on some level. Did you tell your partner? Did you take steps to stop yourself? Did you reach out for help and perspective for this new problem? You could have. If you did not, how is your bs to blame for those failings? He isn't, you are. It's the cold hard ugly truth, and it stares you in the face everytime you look in the mirror. You can face it, accept it, and deal with it, or you can lash out trying to blame others for your own mistakes.


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## regretfullyhis (Aug 12, 2012)

G


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## regretfullyhis (Aug 12, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> I know this post is not going to sit well with most WS here but in my opinion there seems to be a lot of difficulty understanding the pain the BS goes through after an affair is discovered. I know the WS is dealing with a lot of intense emotions such as guilt, shame, remorse, regret. But there seems to be a definite disconnect that I thought I'd address. While I am not the most intelligent or articulate person here on TAM I thought I’d try to describe the way my wife and I have come to understand the difference and how we related it to each other.
> 
> A person who has an affair does indeed have to deal with a lot of pain in the aftermath. They have to reevaluate their own identity and who they really are and their willingness to cause so much suffering to their loved ones. The statements “it’s just not in me to cheat” and “I could never do that” are in direct conflict with their actions. They have to come to the painful conclusion that they indeed are not the absolute good person they thought they were. They have to realize that there was something in them that allowed them to be selfish and cruel to the person or people they most cherished. And the scariest part is that they have to realize that since they’ve done it once they can do it again. Those self examinations are extremely difficult but necessary if the WS wants to become the person they always thought they already were and hope to actually become.
> 
> ...





regretfullyhis 02:25 PM Today
I hope u don't mind me telling u my story as short as I can make it 
My husband call him john adopted my two kids from a previous marriage my ex husband call him dave was in prison at the time (father of the kids and ex husband we married youn I got pregnant married him at 16 he was 18). Dave got out and a year later contacted me to find out how our oldest son (no longer legally his as john adopted them)) was doing because that son call him ben secretly facebooked him. We proceeds to talk text only as he wa 26 hours away for three months behind johns back..


John two years prior had been battling pain killer addiction after a shoulder injury ( finally after this started going to a doctor and now on medication to treat that addiction) and before this pain killer problem was never an addict didn't use anything not even drink was during addiction and before a very hard worker good provider and amazing person. 
For those two years he was verbally mean to me very disconnected and hardly no intimacy. I didnt know for 18 months it had anything to do with an addiction. We have the two kids from my previous marrige he had adopted then we (John and i) had two of our own. So four children total. Be fore we got married john and his ex girlfriend whom he had no kids with she told me they had sex and he admitted she had come to his work but didn't tell me cause I would think he cheated but claimed she lied about sex this is second time before we married he said this ,that was 2003 after living together 3 years. Although I don't fully believe him I let it go. 

So after john found the texts of me and Dave he with our confronting me with it took his mom and sister 
Went to a lawyer filed and took off with kids to an out of state relative then asked me to come see him I did, then Told his mom I followed him there.. Due to his addiction we didn't know about he lied for two years about me and his family said horrible things about me etc to keep me and them apart.

He then started texting calling this ex behind my back a month after finding out about me in march this year and dave texting talking. I found phone records. i called her she said they met at lake he took our two kids even. Then they met again alone for pain meds and said he had lied and told her we didn't live together etc. ok so I have NC with Dave but John said my betrayal with my ex is worse because of the history and he is hurt worse because he didn't do anything with his ex and not were his intentions to be with her it was just get me back.I say the same dave was five states away and we only texted talked but I am suppose to believe john while he continues to feel lhow can he ever know I am really being honest (I could say same to him) and says he knows he was mean and selfish with addiction but never had gone to a woman to talk. He looks at me different but says he wants to be here and with me and feels like he has been forced to feel unimportant and I robbed him of that. I cry a lot To him and say why can't we just be like before if we both want that I am willing and have forgiven. He was an absent husband emotionally an physically for those two years before i ever talked to dave and even after as he only started treatment in august.

me and my ex Dave (for three months nov 2011-feb 2012 had what I call the EA ) i had stopped talking to dave for a month before John found phone records). dave did say he wanted me still always will while I told Dave that John and me were havig problems but if he could be his real self (John ) he is all I have ever wanted and i didnt want to be with Dave but had conversations about what could have been had he never turned into a NA person am went to prison he did I always said things happen for a reason am John makes me happier more than anyone has when sober and normal. Any advice on how I can or things I can do or say to prove I am trustworthy ? I want him to look at me like before. Sorry so long just hoping no matter how harsh y'all have advice on trusting or earning trust. He has access to phone my fb all of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> EI, read Beowulf's initial post. Should be required reading for any WS trying to reconcile. It may not fit B1's and your experience, but it seems to me to capture quite well some of the pain and difficulty, the hard and inescapable truth, the BS faces after passing through initial phases of devastation and confusion. I was looking at some pictures yesterday of my WS before the affair and my heart ached with the love I had, have for that girl -for the world the way it was before. That world is gone, that girl is gone, and now the BS has to decide whether to try to work out a marriage with the woman who took her place.


Harken, I've had exactly this experience. Looking thru pics and thinking "this was when our life was still whole. Before he became this person standing before me now" I look at pictures from during the A with rage. I see him and wonder "what was he thinking about when that pic was taken?" I can look at exactly what time of year it was taken and get an instant mental image of how far it had gone at that time. I look at the picture during the A and think "you were so far gone then. It looks like you but it wasnt" Its really hard not to get too caught up with obsessing about that stuff. His A lasted for nearly a year so it spanned all seasons, all holidays, anniversaries, birthdays....Everything has been tainted to some degree. I have some art he bought me during his A. They hang in our hall- I hate it. I love the art. He bought it for me on my birthday in the fall- his A was full swing. I can barely tolerate it hanging there. THe man I knew is gone forever. Im learning to love someone completely different. Not what I had dreamed of but its what I got. So I know what you mean when you say this:

"*I was looking at some pictures yesterday of my WS before the affair and my heart ached with the love I had, have for that girl -for the world the way it was before. That world is gone, that girl is gone, and now the BS has to decide whether to try to work out a marriage with the woman who took her place"*


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

I want to say I think this was a great post. I am the one in the position of the cheated spouse. It was repetitive too, I am in the funeral business and as I endured each act my cheating spouse inflicted on me, that's all I could think of...the stages of grief. Ive also been to war, and I don't understand why anyone would do this to me. I am 27, sometimes I feel like I'm 50, but It must be all the stress.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

We BS want the WS to understand the pain. Let's face it, they cannot, until and unless probably when they become BS themselves. I have got the best gift from my STBXW when she asked for divorce late October and blamed me for the breakdown of our marriage. For three weeks I lived in agonizing pain, blaming myself for this nightmare, and feeling like I have to bear the pain and burden for a long time.

A few days ago, I unearthed the proof of my wife's infidelity (EA definitely; PA?). She said that I was not told before since she feared that I would contest the divorce if I knew! I forgave her twice before for EA and forgave her again the third time. But she has no remorse and doesn't want to stay married to me anymore. So she is going to get her wish granted. I am not going to spend the rest of my life with person who can allow another person to live the rest of his life in self-hate and pain just to suit her own selfish needs.

Once a liar always a liar, once a cheater always a cheater, unless there are some visible signs that the WS is willing to change for better. I wish one day they can realize the pain and agony they made us go through and change themselves. I know people can change. I have myself gone through immense transformation during the last four weeks. I have no grudges against my WW and OM. But I don't expect my WW to understand my pain either. I told her that she killed our love and future by herself, but she still thinks what she done is good for her and the OM is a lot better alternative.

So, if you are a WS and trying to defend yourself here, STOP! If you are so unhappy in marriage, then get out of it first and then do whatever the hell you want to do. A marriage or a relationship takes two people. Whatever the reason of your unhappiness is, EA/PA is never the answer. Ask yourself if you have given even half the effort that went into betraying your spouse/partner to save your marriage? Answer it honestly. Had you done that, you and us didn't need to be here today. Believe me, the day your BS found out about your affair, a very precious part of them died forever. However, some of the BS also rediscover themselves and find inner peace. Let the higher power show you the light and the path to inner peace.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

2xloser said:


> Great post... I told my WW something very similar shortly after DDay -- she is a murderer of the woman I thought I was married to.
> 
> I drew a pretty harsh comparison to when she lost her mother to cancer... told her to now imagine if her mom had consciously _chosen_ the cancer, how angry she would be. I feel it's something like that.
> 
> ...


:iagree: completely with your post. Not only is the H I loved so much dead to me, I feel dead too.......empty!


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

working_together said:


> I think this comment is very true, it is something that never leaves a person. It leads me to wonder how people can even move forward after an affair, and "start over" with a new marriage. Even if a WS shows complete remorse, does everything they need to, does it really make the BS feel secure in their marriage, can they ever forget the pain they went through??
> 
> Just wondering I guess.


I think a marriage can be saved, if both truly want to.....but unfortunately I can not see a day in our future where I will ever forget the pain he has put upon me, knowingly put upon me.....imagining he'd never get found out is irrelevant.....at some moments in time he made a choice, he weighed up the scales and I lost. So he knowingly put me in this situation.....that is unforgivable.......


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Thank you Wulf, you have "said it all" for me.....you have hit the nail on the head.

Very well presented, insightful.....only someone who has walked this path really knows the utter pain.

I lost a brother in very tragic circumstances, and the way I feel now is worse than that loss in many ways.....


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## oceanbreeze (Oct 8, 2007)

Thank you for this post. I felt you touched all the points. When my marriage ended for multiple reasons and one of them was his admittance of cheating...I kept imagining and dreaming at night that he was dead. When I would see him for MFT, I felt anger, loneliness, emptiness, and a yearn for freedom from him. I remember feeling so betrayed and angry because I told him and felt, that I left my first family for this kind of guy?! I chose you over my friends most of the time. I left everything that was important to me to be with and honor false vows that was only 1-sided. These were the thoughts and feelings that I felt at that time, but since then, having been married and now divorced, it just changed not only my feelings and thoughts, but even life altering circumstances. 

Thank you Beowulf, it really was on par!


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## josepe (Mar 8, 2013)

just got sent to here from hope1964. i had to read it twice to get it. yep thats right is all i can say


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

by request bumping this thread


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

working_together said:


> I think this comment is very true, it is something that never leaves a person. It leads me to wonder how people can even move forward after an affair, and "start over" with a new marriage. Even if a WS shows complete remorse, does everything they need to, does it really make the BS feel secure in their marriage, can they ever forget the pain they went through??
> 
> Just wondering I guess.


NO...I believe you never forget... You can try to put it behind you and move forward - but it will alwase be there! This explains my feeling perfectly and my struggle with 2+ years "on the fence". I love my wife - I know I do, but I can't be with her and it sucks! I believe that she died that day (the person I thought she was). I know that I died that day and am a forever changed and somewhat damaged person because of it. And the marriage as I knew it died that day too. It's been over 10 years and something caused it to resurface a few years back and once I faced the reality of what really happened, I can still love her, but not 100%. I feel if you can't give all your love you have to move on. I have finally been in a seperate room for 31/2 months now, and no sex for 8 months now.... Thanks for writing this - I get it!


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

idkwhat said:


> horsesh!t.
> everyone who gets dumped seems to want to blame the straying spouse for the death of everything. it takes two people to make a marriage work, and i really find it hard to believe that all those grieving people DIDN'T SEE IT COMING. Didn't look at what their actions were which contributed to the break down. Hard to believe anyone got married to someone who stepped out the next day and had an affair.


I call bullsh!t on this! Seriously, do you think most people don't take some of the blame?!! I sure in the hell did! That's how I survived. "I pushed her away" "He manipulated her" "She was a victim too"... It took me 10 years to realize I was telling myself lies just to try to accept what she did! Sure it takes 2 people to make a marriage work - but if you're not happy, the right thing to do is say something or get help - NOT GO SLEEP WITH SOMEONE ELSE!!! That is never an ok solution!!!



idkwhat said:


> Besides, perhaps what was is better off dead. Perhaps the phoenix which arises from the ashes is tempered and stronger and better with two heads in a much better understanding that BOTH are responsible for keeping a love alive.
> 
> Furthermore, the WS probably saw it was dead a long time ago, which is why they found someone else to relate to......
> 
> ...


Yes if that's the attitude then it's better off dead, but I'd rather take my chances with someone who didn't do this to me! I have had my unhappy moments over 30 years time too, but my solution was never to sleep with someone else!!! Wow....


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I haven't read all the subsequent posts but your description is spot-on.

I know there are kids, careers, financial matters and other but I am surprised that so many people chose to work on their marriages after an affair. 

All my love and trust was gone in an instant on D-Day and I knew I no longer wanted to be married to this person any more.

I think so many people would be better off in the long run if they just ended the marriage. 

That being said, I know their are successful marriages after infidelity, I just always wonder if it is/was worth it.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

BUMPED. Took me forever to find this thread again and it's an oldie but a goody.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> BUMPED. Took me forever to find this thread again and it's an oldie but a goody.


Thanks..this has got to be one of the best posts ever on TAM..the author nails what infidelity actually is...you kill two people with one act...readlly sad...


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Bump


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Understanding the pain*



Truthseeker1 said:


> Thanks..this has got to be one of the best posts ever on TAM..the author nails what infidelity actually is...you kill two people with one act...readlly sad...


The really tragic part is that the WS doesn't even realize that they are killing themselves too. Everything they are and think they are is dead.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

bfree said:


> The really tragic part is that the WS doesn't even realize that they are killing themselves too. Everything they are and think they are is dead.


That is what breaks my heart when I think about it now. How the WS destroys themselves in the process and loses their morality.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Funny to see this bumped... I made a reference to it just last week. Watching someone die before your eyes, and only being left to face their murderer. It's a pretty sad way to look at it all.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Nice post and some great responses


I would like to add explaining the pain and anguish of infidelity is sort of like how women try to tell men the pain of childbirth lots of examples;

pulling your eyelids over your head, putting your testicles in a vise, etc. but until you experience it first hand you have no idea

Well until you live thru the h3ll of infidelity, it's a pain that is hard to explain, let's just say most WS's don't wake up in the middle of the night (if the are lucky enough to fall asleep) reliving the horrors of what someone who said they love you could do to you.


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## still so sad (May 27, 2013)

This is one of the best posts I have read on this board in 3 years ( although so many others have been helpful too). Thank you for putting it into better words than I ever could ! 

The WS just doesn't get it. His unilateral decision has caused a permanent change in my life that I did not ask for. I liked me the way I used to be - trusting. Now I am forced to be leary of everyone I encounter. I no longer have the relationship that HE OFFERED ME when he spoke his vows. That man died to me when he CHOSE to betray me. I truly believe that although he knew he was doing something wrong, my WS didn't take into account the wide scope of other lives that he was effecting: me..the kids..other family and friends. Nor does he understand how deep the pain goes and how permanent it is. He changed our future and rewrote our history all with one decision. Infidelity is the most selfish act I can think of.

Excellent, excellent thread. Thank you all for contributing. It is a comfort to me to know that although I often feel alone in this pain, sadly many others are down in the ditch with me. Thankfully the TAM community is here to give me a cyber-hug when I need it. Too bad we can't all meet up for a TAM convention somewhere ..... wouldn't that be interesting..:lol:


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Its too bad Beowulf and his wife Morrigan are both permanently banned.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/50728-my-story-2.html#post929852


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## still so sad (May 27, 2013)

Can someone provide a link to the

"Just Let Them Go " post that is referenced in the original post please? I don't believe I have ever read that.

Thanks


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I see banned people


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

still so sad said:


> Can someone provide a link to the
> 
> "Just Let Them Go " post that is referenced in the original post please? I don't believe I have ever read that.
> 
> Thanks



that link in the newbie thread that is linked in my signature


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

bump


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## Imstrong123 (May 18, 2013)

Well said. The person died and IF there is a chance at R then you must fall in love again. With me, 2 years after DDay (H had a double life, addicted to online dating for 8 years, we've been together for almost 30), he has changed, shows emotion, is romantic, sweet, never criticizes me (after DDay), and it seems he is putting the same effort and energy he put into his double life in his real life....yet, I can't ever trust him again the way I did, I sometimes feel this is like a life sentence...something I must endure because of him...he asks for forgiveness but I can't forgive this...I can learn to accept it though...and maybe with time...we can create a new history of commitment, honesty and integrity on his part...who knows. I love him, but sometimes I wish I didn't...part of me thinks that is impossible to recover from something like this...he might be able to be an honest man...but with someone else maybe, .....is hard to reconcile and live every day with the person who has hurt you the MOST in your life..and see him every day, and think every day...if there will be a day you don't think about it....Is still after 2 years...a day at a time for me...but at least we are moving forward.


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## bigcityman75 (Apr 24, 2015)

Wow this post is enlightening. My WW had a PA 7 years ago(married for 8 years at the time) she gaslighted me for weeks (didnt know it at the time) then she came home left her phone on the table he called.. she said nothing happen until we went to MC a few times i guess rhe MC told her she need to come clean. She did told me everything showed remorse wanted to be transparent did the NC thing made herself available all of that good stuff. But i still had my guard up for at least 2 years. Finally i let my guard down so for 4 years i felt i had a new wife everything was going great until last year . For a year she started to say im not happy with how my life is going i tried my best to address it still she wasnt happy. Then on Valentine's day this year i got the ILYBINILWY she wanted to move out. Come to find out she had another PA and was using it as a exit to ending our marriage. She lied for 4 months as i had that same feeling i had 7 years ago. So i knew . She finally admitted this weekend and said i pushed her to cheat u said well why didnt you just leave . Her excuse was you wouldnt have let me leave. I feel like sh** we have 3 kids thru this and now i feel like. I feel for the banana in the tailpipe again. So imo cheaters dont ever change they just hide inside there selves. I have died came back to life and now have died again. This her death is permenant she made sure this time there is no R.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

So so sorry... :-(

~sammy


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