# Cloak and Dagger



## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

After reading some of these posts I am not sure if I can find out how far my husband has gone in his online excursions.

We have been married for almost 8 years, together on and off for almost 16. We broke up for a couple years after I discovered he was taking his porn and photoshopping the face of a woman we both knew onto the scenes. I was devastated. Moved out and didn't see him for years.

We married after we reconnected and were both more mature and I really did not regret giving the relationship another chance. He is a beautiful, brilliant and talented man.

Fast forward to last week, the pc in the main room crashed. I repaired it and found an online live sex site called chaturb*te!

This is beyond porn in my eyes, this is an online place to hookup for cybersex and then who knows?

I confronted him and said you can come clean or I can reverse-delete the last six months of the pc - he said it was a mistake, he shouldn't have gone there, etc. He didn't do anything, just watched and he's sorry. He loves me and wants to be with me. Blah, Blah.

I said this isn't porn. He said nothing. I said you are not honoring your vows. He said I didn't cheat on you and I am not going to rehash this.

WTF??!! 

My daughter (whom he has raised since she was 6) came over to do taxes and said, the computer in the front room is unplugged and went into the library to use my pc, I helped her, we had dinner and she went home.

When we were alone, I asked why did he unplug the pc and he informed me that he had destroyed the hard drive. "Because of all the bad" WHAT?

I was stunned. Now I know for sure he is hiding something, and he has destroyed the evidence. We haven't spoken for a week.

I have tried and he stonewalls or repeats the Official Story.

It is so sad to watch this unfold, but I am lost and fear the end has finally really come. I have given up trying to talk and have gone dark.

This morning I got a msg that said I love you, but I am unmoved. I don't believe him


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Just looking for some advice, or any response, actually, from another human. Yes I have gone dark. But my husband is in silent treatment mode, which means it could be weeks before he speaks. I know its pretty grim, but I am tired of staying in the library in silence. I posted here, instead of trying to talk to Stonewall Jackson...

haha thats funny! this is the first time I have smiled all day!


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Afraid I don't have much to offer you. If it was all online based and he nuked the hard drive there's very little you can do except wait for him to repeat, but you sound tech savvy enough to know that. 

I agree with you that he's not honoring his vows, but more importantly he should respect your belief that it violates the marriage between you, quit it, and help repair the damage. 

Keep your eyes peeled, there maybe another sneaky move going on. To wipe out a hard drive without getting your data off first is pretty dramatic.

Good Luck.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I wouldn't believe him either!
But your post gave me insight into what might have been my own H's attitude towards me, because I too broke up with him (didn't even have an intimate relationship, just dating) over 15 years ago, didn't see him for years, then got back together. It struck me that my H might have thought that since I came back to him after all these years I couldn't do any better and so he could pretty much do whatever he liked, and I wouldn't budge since no other options. How wrong was that? I filed for divorce.
I am not sure about your situation but thank you for some insight. I thought I had mulled over just about everything in our relationship but I had clearly missed this one. And I think it is significant, attitude and respect towards someone, based on a core belief: couldn't find anyone else better than him in 15 years worth keeping. CLEARLY I DIDN'T DATE AROUND ENOUGH. Yes, I lacked dating skills because I don't like to hurt people's feelings. I've got over that, if someone is dating and is an adult and mature, I do not have to be responsible for clear communication during dating if I don't think the relationship is worth pursuing or there are values that don't mesh up or lifestyles don't mesh up or whatever, it's okay to say to someone you are dating (and not committed to, in any way) that you feel that this relationship while pleasant, is not something you want to bring to any higher levels, but very nice meeting you kind of thing. (I don't date people I don't like for one reason or another...)

There were any number of times I thought to break it off and I did give him his engagement ring back several times but he always responded to my concerns (well, at least long enough before another one cropped up...) Phew. Tough insight. Makes me feel like cr*p, but he misunderstood me, I can find other men, I just didn't bother. I wanted to give it another go with him on the belief that before it might have been just me who was not ready for a commitment. :-o


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

Destroying the hard drive over nothing? Yeah, that's a dead give away right there. My STBXH spent nearly a $1000.00 at an art gallery. When I confronted him about that and other spending he was doing he told me that he didn't buy anything in an art gallery. Someone else must be using his credit card.......yeah someone else like his girlfriend. There were several purchases made at this art gallery that he has no knowledge of. I was then told he was going to have the bank investigate the charges. Funny thing is, I never heard what the outcome of the investigation. Yeah, there was no investigation, just his big fat lies! 
With all that said, I don't believe innocent actions need to be deleted, hidden or lied about.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Afraid I don't have much to offer you. If it was all online based and he nuked the hard drive there's very little you can do except wait for him to repeat, but you sound tech savvy enough to know that.
> 
> I agree with you that he's not honoring his vows, but more importantly he should respect your belief that it violates the marriage between you, quit it, and help repair the damage.
> 
> ...


I know, right? He has a website business also on that pc (which I coded for him, and he makes money with) and family photos, music, projects he's working on, etc. ALL WIPED OUT It makes no sense! I know he can go online at his office or on his phone, so WTF? and I already confronted him about the sites I thought crossed the line! So what else could there be, geeeez!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

So what is your bottom line in re: all of this

What do you want---you know he is inappropriate, he knows he is, even tho he is trying to stonewall you----you know by his actions, he is covering up

If you want R, or D---you must force some movement-----you can't just do nothing

Get in his face and tell him, what it is you want-----You don't trust him---do you wanna R---what does he intend to do about his cheating????

He will try sliding this under the rug, just as long as you let him

If you wanna R---and you must make this your ballgame, by your rules---you give him 3 conditions

1. He takes a poly---you can go to any police station, and get help on how to proceed
2. He signs a Post--Nup
3. You give him boundaries, with actionable (not verbal) consequences

If he doesn't like your rules---then tell him D., is about to be put on the table

Do not take any guff from him---If you weaken/backoff----he will know you are weak, and will do nothing---and he will keep on cheating.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Do you KNOW the hard drive was destroyed or did he just tell you that? Obviously you're both tech savvy so tech spying is going to be difficult. If he had a money making venture on that hard drive I'm hard pressed to believe he nuked it with out creating an image or back up of it somewhere, or just snatched it out of that box and stuck it in a drawer. 

Regardless if he destroyed something that made him money, or wants you to believe that he did then he's hiding something that he really doesn't want you to see. He likely figuring that you're not going to drop it and force him into some kind of revelation to you so my personal bet is that he's out crafting something that is adequately bad to get you to accept it as the whole truth but that in reality is still not the whole enchilada. 

Have you checked to see if that business site is down? If he nuked the hard drive it should be off line right? 

You say you haven't spoken for a week and have gone dark. Has one of you moved out?


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Do you KNOW the hard drive was destroyed or did he just tell you that? Obviously you're both tech savvy so tech spying is going to be difficult. If he had a money making venture on that hard drive I'm hard pressed to believe he nuked it with out creating an image or back up of it somewhere, or just snatched it out of that box and stuck it in a drawer.
> 
> Regardless if he destroyed something that made him money, or wants you to believe that he did then he's hiding something that he really doesn't want you to see. He likely figuring that you're not going to drop it and force him into some kind of revelation to you so my personal bet is that he's out crafting something that is adequately bad to get you to accept it as the whole truth but that in reality is still not the whole enchilada.
> 
> ...


He just told me that and I was shocked. The site is online, but he used to check emails/orders every night after work, and now just comes home and sits in the dark.

I either find something else to do or stay in the library where there is an extra bed. He makes no attempt to bring up the problem other than repeat the official story, if pressed. Its ridiculous! He is a legendary sulker.

The last time we talked, DAYS ago, he repeated the official story and said "If you want to throw away 8 years of marriage because of one mistake, that's up to you, I'm not going to rehash this"

I said "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!"

He didn't answer, and hasn't spoken since.

I said fine, don't speak, at least it means I won't have to hear anymore lies.

The problem is, HE KNOWS what is going on, and I just found out, so I don't have any idea what he did, for how long or ANYTHING other than our entire life is just some kind of wierd Mexican standoff, everything has just stopped.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Site is hosted somewhere else then I assume?

Anyway, you're not at war, or "throwing away 8 years" to use his words, because of one mistake. You're at war because he won't tell you the truth.

What he really doesn't understand is that the longer he waits to tell you, if he ever decides to, the harder it will be for you to accept what he does tell you as the truth -even if it is. This is the whole so many cheaters dig themselves into. 

You can't stay at a Mexican standoff forever, if you do, eventually you'll either fold or just slowly drift back and it will get rug swept. 

Look up "the 180" here and read it, get a plan, and stick to your guns. Moving forward without the truth and full transparency should be unacceptable.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Site is hosted somewhere else then I assume?
> 
> Anyway, you're not at war, or "throwing away 8 years" to use his words, because of one mistake. You're at war because he won't tell you the truth.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know. I know you are right. Thanks for the support, I have gone dark, but the problem is, I really don't know what I want. Obviously, I wanted to be married. Now I feel like I am losing my marriage to something that I can't name or identify.

Thanks again for your responses, it has helped so much.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Nothing is gonna happen, without some sort of action on your part

If you decide to live with this, and stay married, then you have to suck all this crap up, and move on, but he wins, and knows he can do this again, cuz you will probably eventually fold

If you are thru with this---then threaten him with D.

You can't just do nothing---your mental health won't tolerate it, for very long.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Nothing is gonna happen, without some sort of action on your part
> 
> If you decide to live with this, and stay married, then you have to suck all this crap up, and move on, but he wins, and knows he can do this again, cuz you will probably eventually fold
> 
> ...


Thanks so much, I know you are dead on right. 

Except I won't fold, this is too extreme. This isn't just an argument about money!

And I have found porn before and he never dismantled the computer! Also, he left the whole machine set up exactly as it was on the desk. Like he wanted me to try to turn it on and be confused... It is bizarre. He had to pull the tower out, take the case off, get the hard drive out, PUT IT ALL BACK TOGETHER and put it back where it was. 

It's like he is deliberately f***ing with me!

Maybe I am just getting paranoid, Good Lord.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> You can't just do nothing---your mental health won't tolerate it, for very long.


You're right, my sanity is starting to go already


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> It's like he is deliberately f***ing with me!
> 
> Maybe I am just getting paranoid, Good Lord.


He is and you're not - it's called gas lighting and it's supposed to have the exact effect it's having on you. It's supposed to weaken your resolve to stick to what you know is right - don't let it.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Site is hosted somewhere else then I assume?


Yes, only the backup and updates were on the crippled one.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Regardless if he destroyed something that made him money, or wants you to believe that he did then he's hiding something that he really doesn't want you to see. He likely figuring that you're not going to drop it and force him into some kind of revelation to you so my personal bet is that he's out crafting something that is adequately bad to get you to accept it as the whole truth but that in reality is still not the whole enchilada.


That is probably exactly what will happen. I really am crushed. I got him Eurotica, a steak dinner and a BJ for his birthday (very recently) I feel like a total fool for trusting him. I have loved him for so long. Bleh...

He will be home from work soon and we will have another night of darkness and silence. Almost everything in this house is mine! But I am a SAHW and have been putting all my time into helping with his business and taking care of my mother after her surgery. Last year it was taking care of HIM after his surgery! We have tons of stuff that is mostly mine, there is no way I can move out.

When I married him I had a good job as a software developer, now my whole life revolves around him. It will be hard to unravel. Since daughter has moved away to school, I was thinking of going back to work anyway, but his business has taken off more than expected. I guess he got the better end of this deal.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I guess he got the better end of this deal.


If you resign yourself to getting the shaft that's exactly what you'll get. Your child has moved off to school, you have a great job skill, your husband is being a turd - stand up and grab life with both hands. If you H snaps out of and wants to come along and you want him to -great - but don't sit around waiting on it or feeling like there's nothing you can do. You coded his site - you've been taking care of him for years - you've got a good job skill and all the stuff is yours. I'm betting you can move on much easier than he can if it comes to that.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> If you resign yourself to getting the shaft that's exactly what you'll get. Your child has moved off to school, you have a great job skill, your husband is being a turd - stand up and grab life with both hands. If you H snaps out of and wants to come along and you want him to -great - but don't sit around waiting on it or feeling like there's nothing you can do. You coded his site - you've been taking care of him for years - you've got a good job skill and all the stuff is yours. I'm betting you can move on much easier than he can if it comes to that.


Yeah, but its been 6 years since I worked. It will take a bit to get back in the game....And he just got a HUGE promotion at work, that I helped him prep for, even going through his final round interview practices with him. I should have been doing all that for myself!

I know I shouldn't be negative, but man, what a let down.

I know what I can do, I have a good education. great job history, high salary history, I am just sick and exhausted and an emotional mess. And I know have to be way more together to work in a rapid programming environment again. Right now, I don't even have a freaking car.

But thanks for the feedback, it really helps to hear another point of view, i don't want to decide anything till I am in a clear frame of mind. This forum helps get people there.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Lone Star said:


> Destroying the hard drive over nothing? Yeah, that's a dead give away right there. My STBXH spent nearly a $1000.00 at an art gallery. When I confronted him about that and other spending he was doing he told me that he didn't buy anything in an art gallery. Someone else must be using his credit card.......yeah someone else like his girlfriend.


Thanks LoneStar! you are a pretty sharp cookie! I hope you said that great comeback after that lame excuse!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey crushed---come on---your better than this---you are allowing yourself to just live in misery

Look---you only get one trip thru life on this planet---it is spose to be a happy trip---right now you are just plain living a horrible life.

End this--------remember no matter what, in a divorce settlement---you get half of everything, plus alimony---plus since you suborned your career for his, a good atty., will make that pay also----you won't come out empty handed, and you will have time to get yourself together

There is a life out there, a good life, with people, who are alive, vibrant, happy, doing things----you, you sit a dark house with a weirdo for a H., who is the porn king---is that what you want for your life

Get up, show some self respect, stand tall and tell your H., they he*l with you, I am moving on and you are welcome to the dark.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey crushed---come on---your better than this---you are allowing yourself to just live in misery
> 
> Look---you only get one trip thru life on this planet---it is spose to be a happy trip---right now you are just plain living a horrible life.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanx you guys! I did just that tonight!

Told him that very thing and he all of a sudden started saying he was sorry for hurting me, he would be pissed if I did anything like that and I had a right to throw him out!

Then he said he's going to go to the doctor and get help for his depression and why he is so narcissistic and withdrawn. 

We talked for 2 hours and we went to bed in separate rooms, I told him I need more than promises, he broke his vows and needs to address why. 

I am in shock, yet again.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Before you leave. Take the damn computer down and have it fixed. I have gotten the "black screen of death" on my computer. See if he is telling the truth. I mean we are talking only a few bucks. This is easily proven.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey crushed---good for you---you will see which ever way you go---this will turn out OK---just as long as you do, what needs to be done for you-----remember---keep your self-respect, and stand tall


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Initfortheduration said:


> Before you leave. Take the damn computer down and have it fixed. I have gotten the "black screen of death" on my computer. See if he is telling the truth. I mean we are talking only a few bucks. This is easily proven.


Nothing to fix, no hard drive, it went out with last weeks trash.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Thanks LoneStar! you are a pretty sharp cookie! I hope you said that great comeback after that lame excuse!


Well the hiding really began after I confronted him about all the money being spent, he removed me from that bank account, refused to hand over cell phone bills and so on. Once I started confronting him he really started locking things down but claimed he had nothing to hide. Really? Just another one of his dumb lies. That's ok, he can't hide that stuff from my attorney and the court. I wish I could have been calmer in the beginning because I would have been able to get a lot more dirt on him. I'm an honest open person so I guess that is why I could never understand the concept of 'I'm not doing anything wrong but yet I am going to hide everything from you!' He tried the same spin on our adult sons. They gave him the benefit of the doubt because they really wanted to believe him and not have to deal with what was happening. That didn't last long, it was so painfully clear that they couldn't buy his lame lies. Me and my boys are insulted by his lies and the fact that he apparently thinks we are all idiots.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey crushed---good for you---you will see which ever way you go---this will turn out OK---just as long as you do, what needs to be done for you-----remember---keep your self-respect, and stand tall


Yeah, you know I did this last night, got out of my pain long enough to meditate and get in a clear mind.

Walked out into the dark and said my piece (you broke your vows to me, i dont care if its technically cheating or not, you need to fix this by coming clean or pack your stuff). I waited through another minute that seemed like forever, fighting the urge to scream, and let profound grace wash over me - PATIENCE - I actually felt love for this man who was alone and just stuck.

Another minute passed and then-----A lot came out. 

He said he had been going to the online sex sites for a few months, he doesn't know, he never hooked up his cam, he just watched these people, laughing at them. Some guys, some girls.

He said he guesses he got something out of it, psychologically. 

I didn't say a word, amazed that he was speaking candidly for the first time in weeks.

He said, he is truly sorry he hurt me, and all the fights he has ever had with me, he always felt I was wrong and he was right. And this is the first time in his life he feels truly wrong and there is no denying what he has done, no excuse for it.

He said the other night I said he has so many narcissistic qualities, so he looked it up at work, and he couldn't believe what he was reading. He said he felt he has several of the traits. He said he does not want to lose our life together.

We have NEVER had any kind of talk like this, ever.

The weekend is coming. The last 2 weekends we have spent in silence, I feel this is the breakthrough I have been waiting for.

I understand that it is bad to admit to something like this, If it is true, then it shows he is willing to throw away our vows online and continue playing house with me during the day...

I also understand it could just be another lie. A story that seems sufficiently bad enough to account for his behavior.

I also understand this is the most forthcoming he has ever been and I felt it only came to be because I stood up for myself, but also listened with compassion.

I brought it up in a fight the other night because I took several upper division courses in psych for one of my degrees, and it never occurred to me that my husband might be narcissistic until i realized he was going to sex sites where he was in total control and the other was a sitting duck!

Maybe he finally is having some kind of crisis because his secret life (or what hes willing to admit of it) has come to light


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I also understand this is the most forthcoming he has ever been and I felt it only came to be because I stood up for myself, but also listened with compassion.


BINGO!!! Good Job!! Keep it up!!

:smthumbup:


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Lone Star said:


> Well the hiding really began after I confronted him about all the money being spent, he removed me from that bank account, refused to hand over cell phone bills and so on. Once I started confronting him he really started locking things down but claimed he had nothing to hide. Really? Just another one of his dumb lies. That's ok, he can't hide that stuff from my attorney and the court. I wish I could have been calmer in the beginning because I would have been able to get a lot more dirt on him. I'm an honest open person so I guess that is why I could never understand the concept of 'I'm not doing anything wrong but yet I am going to hide everything from you!' He tried the same spin on our adult sons. They gave him the benefit of the doubt because they really wanted to believe him and not have to deal with what was happening. That didn't last long, it was so painfully clear that they couldn't buy his lame lies. Me and my boys are insulted by his lies and the fact that he apparently thinks we are all idiots.


Wow, LoneStar, I know how you feel for sure, the lies are so stupid, lolz, its hard to think that this is even coming out of their mouths!

But that is what lies are. Stupid stories to throw you off the scent---....ridiculous behavior

But you gotta not internalize his inability to be truthful. That you gotta let go. He is only humiliating himself.

I hope this message finds you well.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

I'm doing great LWC! While his lies are frustrating in the end everything will come back to bite him and that won't be my problem. He created this mess with his lies but I don't have to be part of his lies.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I understand that it is bad to admit to something like this, If it is true, then it shows he is willing to throw away our vows online and continue playing house with me during the day...
> 
> I also understand it could just be another lie. A story that seems sufficiently bad enough to account for his behavior.
> 
> I also understand this is the most forthcoming he has ever been and I felt it only came to be because I stood up for myself, but also listened with compassion.


Which he evidently is going to take full advantage of!

Or maybe no matter what he does it won't be enough. 

He seems attentive but its just about dinner and a movie. He has nothing to say about the problems or the marriage that I feel is broken, or was a sham.

I guess he feels like he admitted it, feels sorry and now that's it. I feel terrible, I am not ok, I feel betrayed, like he was ok living that way. There is no resolution, how can there be?

I said this last night and he said he was just trying to get some food because he knows I dont feel well.

He ordered a pizza, and I ate with him, in silence and went to bed in the library.....Isn't something else supposed to happen?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Lost---all your H., has done is admit what you both already know---he is not doing what is necessary to make a R., work

He MUST do ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING---he shows EXTREME REMORSE---he is CONTRITE, he does what ever you need/want done---If you say jump he says how high---that's the way this has to be, to help you heal

This is now your ballgame, by your rules, and he either plays that way---or he is gone

What I wanna know is why are you sleeping in the other room/rooms---he cheated, kick him out of the bedroom---let him sleep in uncomfortable positions

Stop playing 2nd fiddle----you need to be in command, and you need to play the role out---he doesn't like it, tell him not to let the door hit him on his back side as he leaves

Or in other terms, you need to become the ALPHA in what's left of this mge.----Stop suborning yourself, take charge.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey Lost---all your H., has done is admit what you both already know---he is not doing what is necessary to make a R., work
> 
> He MUST do ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING---he shows EXTREME REMORSE---he is CONTRITE, he does what ever you need/want done---If you say jump he says how high---that's the way this has to be, to help you heal
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know.

I sleep in the library because its where i feel safe, I dont have to deal with him, my computer is there, all my book, candles and music, a comfy bed and a place to get away and meditate, sleep and be at peace.

The bedroom is where he is, his incessant alarm clock every morning, his clothes, his smell, etc. NO THANX

I can barely be around him right now. We have been arguing all day. I told him I want a post nup - that says he betrayed his vow of fidelity and if he breaks it again, we will divorce and he will give me the house, no questions asked (its a lease anyway, so whatev- i just dont want to fight over who leaves) for him to come clean - and for him to go see someone and talk, not say so, make an appointment and keep it. and I still feel like he's holding back, I don't know why.

We'll see, I am not holding my breath.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

If you do go thru the post--nup route make it an 80-20 split on all assets of any kind in your favor---and he must sign a duress clause, and you get it notarized


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> If you do go thru the post--nup route make it an 80-20 split on all assets of any kind in your favor---and he must sign a duress clause, and you get it notarized


Yeah, thanks for the advice, it has helped so much, I don't think I would have stood up to him and got in his face otherwise.

I was just going to start selling off stuff in the house on craigslist and put the rest in storage, move out and file a D.

I just feel like I messed up, I was just devastated and confronted him too early. He beat me to the hard drive and destroyed all traces of what he was up to. But not before I found his online live sex session cookies. Under each webcam thumbnail is a "status" that says if they are seeking men, women, couples, monkeys, who knows!

I feel like I will never know how far he's really gone, if he actually ever hooked up in real life or even how long this has been going on. And with each passing day, I just look at him thinking:

Really? While I was going to take care of my mom (who had just gotten out of ICU), you were out searching for my replacement on live sex hookup sites? "Where we can masturbate while chatting online!" WHAT? And you were perfectly happy living like this, while I have to run around and take care of everything? 

And we would STILL be living like this if he wouldn't have got a porn virus on the main pc.

I just feel like, I honored my vows and he has not. I don't even see him the same way anymore.

I know I need to get a post-nup that says I have been a devoted wife who has suborned her career to help build his business and further support his advancing corporate career and am entitled, in event of divorce, to remain in the house and receive 6 months of spousal support.

(we have no minor children or real estate)

I know he will never tell me the truth.

I just feel it.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

I just can't get over the fact that he acted one way with me, and then was a completely different person when I was gone or asleep.

He lied right to my face and still is.

I know he feels bad, but I don't care! He's known what was up all this time, and I just found out -- and I don't even know what the real truth is!

Whatever


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

How bad he really feels, is not your worry, what you do about this situation, and how you handle it, it what you need to deal with.

As to post--nup----you do not put in anything but terms---you keep it short and to the point.

If your H., does anything out of line, and put in what you will consider out of line, then put in your terms---80-20 split of marital finances, child custody and support terms, property split, and a duress clause----NOTHING MORE, you don't want the judge having any problems with the agreement----then get it signed/notarized, and put in your safe keeping, where your H. can not get at it. Make sure you put in the duress clause---that is the most important clause of all, in making the agreement legit.

Stay strong/tuff/hard---it will all work out one way or the other, right now, your brain, must rule over your heart, that IS the way it HAS to be.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> How bad he really feels, is not your worry, what you do about this situation, and how you handle it, it what you need to deal with.
> 
> As to post--nup----you do not put in anything but terms---you keep it short and to the point.
> 
> ...


I know, but we can't even agree on what is cheating! I say going to live sex sites where everyone is getting naked and camming together and chatting, etc. IS CHEATING!!

He says he was just looking didnt "hook up" so he didnt cheat, but he does admit he "shouln't have been there"

Then destroys the hard drive so I will never know!

Then he swears he destroyed it so i wouldn't see him using that machine and just hate him..... 

WTF???

Now he's being an angel saying he will do whatever I need to make things right.... so I said (after reading these forums) I NEED A POST NUP that says if I find out you have lied to me -- we immediately file divorce and you leave the house and I get my terms. 

He said OK because he thinks I won't do it.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Yeah, I dont know. Sorry, guess I am really having a bad day. I feel like being done with trying to get him to agree an a shared reality.

Obviously, if I want to know the truth-- I should just let it all go, get a VAR and go back to being pretend married.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Pretend married---give in, cuz he has come 30% of the way-----
Is that the value you put on yourself, your future, your family

Stand the F. up and tell him the way it will be, he has to be ACCOUNTABLE, and if he is given the greatest gift he will ever recieve, a 2nd chance from you----he has to know boundaries, and they include him getting rid of his shi*ty attitude----remember---THIS IS YOUR BALL GAME --PLAYED BY YOUR RULES


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

To me his destroying the disk is an admission of doing far worse then what you found and confronted him with. What else can you think?

He's cooked his own goose in this one.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> To me his destroying the disk is an admission of doing far worse then what you found and confronted him with. What else can you think?
> 
> He's cooked his own goose in this one.


I know, right?! I am so MAD that he did that! And he just keeps saying he's sorry and we HAVE to work it out.

Whatever! Tonight I brought it up and it has been so hard to get any more than the Official Story. He swears he told the truth about everything, but I just can't believe it! I have no proof but the session cookies. And the sites are live adult cam!

So he can deny it because I can't go back. He will always be able to say he was just looking....

So, I said, just looking for what?? Someone to have sex with?!

Good Lord.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Pretend married---give in, cuz he has come 30% of the way-----
> Is that the value you put on yourself, your future, your family
> 
> Stand the F. up and tell him the way it will be, he has to be ACCOUNTABLE, and if he is given the greatest gift he will ever recieve, a 2nd chance from you----he has to know boundaries, and they include him getting rid of his shi*ty attitude----remember---THIS IS YOUR BALL GAME --PLAYED BY YOUR RULES


Thanks so much I will not quit fighting for the integrity of my marriage -- and my life.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> If you resign yourself to getting the shaft that's exactly what you'll get. Your child has moved off to school, you have a great job skill, your husband is being a turd - stand up and grab life with both hands. If you H snaps out of and wants to come along and you want him to -great - but don't sit around waiting on it or feeling like there's nothing you can do. You coded his site - you've been taking care of him for years - you've got a good job skill and all the stuff is yours. I'm betting you can move on much easier than he can if it comes to that.


Thanks for the feedback and giving me perspective. I am so hurt and wary that it is really hard to think straight.

Things seem better and he is doing everything I need him to do. But it still feels weird. I don't feel like being close to him at all. And I really don't know if I can get over it.

I know he is willing to try to regain the intimacy and trust. But I just don't know if I can. Last night he made dinner and gave me a beautiful gift. I said, I didn't get you anything, I thought one of us would be moved out by now. He said it was ok, that me coming out of the library and having dinner with him was the best present of all.

But thats not what I want. I want our life back, not either one of us doing everything, but a partnership. A productive and creative life. 

I feel like his choices have put us on the Jerry Springer show.

And that is what I cannot reconcile within myself, let alone reconcile in my marriage.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

OK, here's where it stands

I am getting a post-nup together

His crappy attitude is finally gone and he SEEMS remorseful

He is going to IC starting next week

But we are in different rooms, and have zero closeness.

It feels strange, very strange.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Has he made any move to tell you what was on that hard drive or explain why he felt compelled to destroy it?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

How long do you intend to live like roommates???????

Is that what you want for the rest of your life.

I know that he must show remorse, contriteness, and be totally transparent. He also must know accountability.

Beyond that are there any feelings you have for him, and vice versa??????


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Has he made any move to tell you what was on that hard drive or explain why he felt compelled to destroy it?


Yes. What was on the hard drive (he says, and I will now never know) was evidence of him visiting a live adult cam site SEVERAL times.

He claims he destroyed it because he didn't want me to see him on that computer and just "hate" him and "think (he's) a d*ck"

I said so where does this leave it then? We would be living like this if I hadn't of found out!

And he replied -- this is why I am going to counseling.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> How long do you intend to live like roommates???????
> 
> Is that what you want for the rest of your life.
> 
> ...



I have no idea how long it will go like this. I can't imagine sleeping in the same bed OR being intimate with him -- i feel sick when I think of it, and it really doesn't matter how far he went-- I love him and wanted to share my life with him, and I still love him.

But I can't get this giant hole in my heart to go away. I feel like it just caved in.

He gave me a card that said:

My barn having burned to the ground, I can now see the moon

In it he writes that he will work as long as it takes to restore our marriage, that it is the most important thing in his life, blah blah blah

But I feel so strange, like our marriage wasn't real to him. And it has been my whole life for almost 8 years.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Has he made any move to tell you what was on that hard drive or explain why he felt compelled to destroy it?


He also said "I've been spending too much time online anyway"


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> He also said "I've been spending too much time online anyway"


Yeah, whatev, I think I am done

I tried to talk again tonight, and nothing but the "official Story" and more stonewalling.

I am so sad, but I know, its prolly really over, its been 3 weeks and just more of the same

*le deep sigh*

I wish things could work out and love could mean something, I wish it could shake him into honesty, but nothing works.

I give up.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Yeah, I just got in his face again, asking about why he trashed the pc, what's the deal with the porn, etc, and he finally had enough and walked out--- said he was going for a walk (that was an hour ago)-- he's prolly at the bar or who knows.....Happy weekend to me  !


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## blissful (Nov 14, 2011)

hi, sorry for what u are going through. it sucks. my H sounds alot like yours, "'m sorry for x,y,z BUT I only did it because blah, blah, blah". Somehow that doesn't sond like a true apology. I read somewhere, when someone apologises and foloows it with a 'but', the 2nd part of the sentence is what they're really trying to say.

It sounds like you guys have gotten stuck in a miscommunication circle- and it can go on for weeks, trust me. Have you thought abt going for counselling together, perhaps not for a R, but for closure for you. Maybe with a counsellor he'll be able to give you the answers you're looking for, cos if he stonwalls, the counsellor can reign him back in.

Then depending on what happens during your sessions, you'll at least be more empowered when making a decision abt your marriage.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

blissful said:


> hi, sorry for what u are going through. it sucks. my H sounds alot like yours, "'m sorry for x,y,z BUT I only did it because blah, blah, blah". Somehow that doesn't sond like a true apology. I read somewhere, when someone apologises and foloows it with a 'but', the 2nd part of the sentence is what they're really trying to say.
> 
> It sounds like you guys have gotten stuck in a miscommunication circle- and it can go on for weeks, trust me. Have you thought abt going for counselling together, perhaps not for a R, but for closure for you. Maybe with a counsellor he'll be able to give you the answers you're looking for, cos if he stonwalls, the counsellor can reign him back in.
> 
> Then depending on what happens during your sessions, you'll at least be more empowered when making a decision abt your marriage.


Yeah, thanks so much, he has been gone for 2 hours now, obviously not still "walking" -- i just cannot believe my marriage is ending this way, I tried so hard for so long, and then----nothing. So disappointing. SO lost and hurt, I just don't think I can do it anymore.

I hope you are ok, I hope you make it. Peace to you.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Sorry LWC. It takes two to tango and he's not coming to the dance. All you can really do is decide to wait for him or move on. 

Told you that you're spending too much time on line huh? He's got some nerve I'll give him that.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Sorry LWC. It takes two to tango and he's not coming to the dance. All you can really do is decide to wait for him or move on.
> 
> Told you that you're spending too much time on line huh? He's got some nerve I'll give him that.


Yeah, he's got a lot of nerve-----last night walked out at 930, stayed out all night---came home at 3 am and we had it out, bigtime.

It was awful, he was just drunk laughing at me saying crappy, mean things. Blamed everything on me not giving him enough.

I told him I want a divorce---he just laughed and said "go ahead".

I told him to leave---he said "I'd like to see you make me" just laughed and I pushed him, screamed at him, slapped him and told him to stop laughing and to leave.

He was drunk, laughing saying "make me " over and over.

It was terrible, we went to bed in separate rooms again and he is not talking, refuses to leave, etc. Its bad, bad, bad.

Everything in this house is mine. I am not working, and cannot move out right now. He has a great job and only a few things that belong to him---He could easily call someone and get moved with one trip in a car. I would have to sell everything or put it in storage in order to leave.

Please advise.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You may just have to live with him in the house. Search for "the 180" it's designed to help you cohabitate with him and stay emotionally disconnected as much as possible. Don't you leave. 

Go file. Even if it's not what you really want he threw down a challenge. If you don't rise to it you'll have no credibility and all of the power between you will be his. I'll put even odds that if you put papers and a pen on the table he'll start backing up real fast. You don't have to go through with it if he comes around, he needs to see in black and white that you're serious. 

Again sorry he's being such a d!ck to you.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> You may just have to live with him in the house. Search for "the 180" it's designed to help you cohabitate with him and stay emotionally disconnected as much as possible. Don't you leave.
> 
> Go file. Even if it's not what you really want he threw down a challenge. If you don't rise to it you'll have no credibility and all of the power between you will be his. I'll put even odds that if you put papers and a pen on the table he'll start backing up real fast. You don't have to go through with it if he comes around, he needs to see in black and white that you're serious.
> 
> Again sorry he's being such a d!ck to you.


A big part of me just wants to leave, like I can see why there is such a thing as walk-away-wives...

But I lose everything, my washer and dryer, office, bedroom, library and a music room that I built the staging for and I own all the instruments from before we married. My piano, god I would die without being able to play....

But its just material things! I could just walk away and start over, let him deal with moving/getting rid of everything----Am I only a slave to my possessions? I could take what I really need, my clothes, etc. and JUST GO, have him served and be done.

Its only that I want to keep my home that I am suffering, If I walk away and breathe and let it go......I would be free.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

One of the basic tenants here on TAM is that the betrayed spouse should never leave. Why should they? Staying in your home is a symbol of control. A physical embodiment of I'm right, your wrong, so you leave. Of course sometimes the wayward spouse puts up a fight and it ends up where you are - kind of like occupied France. Sure you're home but there's unwanted residents there to. 

You can leave but again, why should you? Build a wall around him. Sleep where you want, live in your home. Ignore him. Easier said than done I know but it can be done.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> He also said "I've been spending too much time online anyway"


He meant him (obviously!) not me LOLZ


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> One of the basic tenants here on TAM is that the betrayed spouse should never leave. Why should they? Staying in your home is a symbol of control. A physical embodiment of I'm right, your wrong, so you leave. Of course sometimes the wayward spouse puts up a fight and it ends up where you are - kind of like occupied France. Sure you're home but there's unwanted residents there to.
> 
> You can leave but again, why should you? Build a wall around him. Sleep where you want, live in your home. Ignore him. Easier said than done I know but it can be done.


Then I would have balls as big as him!

So hard to do, living in occupied France or Ye Olde Mexican Standoff. Such a mind F**k--power trip extraordinaire . . 

Did your SO stand up to you as you advise? I wish I had all your confidence in a little vial to use as needed.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Yeah, he's got a lot of nerve-----last night walked out at 930, stayed out all night---came home at 3 am and we had it out, bigtime.
> 
> It was awful, he was just drunk laughing at me saying crappy, mean things. Blamed everything on me not giving him enough.
> 
> ...


First let me say I'm so sorry that you're living with an unremorseful cheater that refuses to own his sh!t. Yes, you can try and bluff him into leaving, but he called you on it. So no, you cannot make him leave. Also do not resort to domestic violence just because you're a woman. If the situation were reversed, we would be burning him at the stake for the domestic violence. Domestic violence isn't right, no matter if you're a man or a woman. 

What you need to do is lawyer up and see what your legal options are. You will have to advise your lawyer that you pushed and slapped him, because your WH may use that against you in court. 

You also need to start the 180 so you can help yourself detach from him so that you will gain the emotional strength to either proceed to R or D. Get yourself into IC if you can and see a doctor for meds if you feel you need them to help stabilize your emotions.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> First let me say I'm so sorry that you're living with an unremorseful cheater that refuses to own his sh!t. Yes, you can try and bluff him into leaving, but he called you on it. So no, you cannot make him leave. Also do not resort to domestic violence just because you're a woman. If the situation were reversed, we would be burning him at the stake for the domestic violence. Domestic violence isn't right, no matter if you're a man or a woman.
> 
> What you need to do is lawyer up and see what your legal options are. You will have to advise your lawyer that you pushed and slapped him, because your WH may use that against you in court.
> 
> You also need to start the 180 so you can help yourself detach from him so that you will gain the emotional strength to either proceed to R or D. Get yourself into IC if you can and see a doctor for meds if you feel you need them to help stabilize your emotions.


Thanks, LM. Your words humble me.

I agree--I am upset that I lost control, but I only tried because he was so drunk he could barely stand. I shouldn't have done it, I know I was wrong. By the way--I'm 5'2--he's 6'3--he could kill me with one hand behind his back if he chose to. 

He just laughed at me the whole time anyway, at my desperate, futile attempt to fight. 

All is quiet in the house now. Back to the silence and the dark.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Then I would have balls as big as him!
> 
> So hard to do, living in occupied France or Ye Olde Mexican Standoff. Such a mind F**k--power trip extraordinaire . .
> 
> Did your SO stand up to you as you advise? I wish I had all your confidence in a little vial to use as needed.


I was overwhelmingly remorseful for what I had done. Accordingly my wife didn't have to stand up to me. I knew I was wrong and acted as such. Having said that though she did not take the pound of flesh from me she could have. 

As far as confidence. It's easy for me to sit here on the other side of the Internet and give my opinion. It requires absolutely no confidence whatsoever. Confidence is staying there and standing up for yourself in the face of someone you love who you thought loved you but instead is treating you with contempt. All we can do is provide an objective opinion and maybe some motivation and encouragement to give you a lift when it gets overwhelming. 

I agree with the advice Lordmayhem gave you. Hang in there, the sun will rise each morning, get started taking action to resolve the situation.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I was overwhelmingly remorseful for what I had done. Accordingly my wife didn't have to stand up to me. I knew I was wrong and acted as such. Having said that though she did not take the pound of flesh from me she could have.
> 
> As far as confidence. It's easy for me to sit here on the other side of the Internet and give my opinion. It requires absolutely no confidence whatsoever. Confidence is staying there and standing up for yourself in the face of someone you love who you thought loved you but instead is treating you with contempt. All we can do is provide an objective opinion and maybe some motivation and encouragement to give you a lift when it gets overwhelming.
> 
> I agree with the advice Lordmayhem gave you. Hang in there, the sun will rise each morning, get started taking action to resolve the situation.


Yeah, it is overwhelming. And exhausting. 

We have not spoken since the blowout friday night

Now its sunday and i got back from a walk around 5pm, he was sitting in the front room---smoking----silent...

I change, get a drink have a smoke myself and then get up the courage to speak---knowing he will most likely will not respond--and also knowing there is no way i can "make" him leave---even though everyone says BETRAYED SPOUSE NEVER LEAVES---I can't stand it anymore, I am done with the pain

"It will take me a while to get all of this moved"---I say quietly--"I'm sorry for lashing out at you, I was wrong, I love you and know we are both miserable like this, you don't have to talk if you don't want to, it's ok---i cant make you leave if you dont want to---but I cant just leave easily, I need to sell some stuff, I'll try to get it done as soon as possible."

No response

I go into the library and close the door, just like so many countless nights of silence before this---and just lay down

An hour later he is knocking----he does not want a divorce, we can work this out, there is nothing we cannot overcome, etc. etc.----then this:

I WANT TO BE MARRIED TO YOU AND NO ONE ELSE

so I said "I thought that is what we WERE doing"



I am just numb


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Bleh...

Why is it so hard?! There is no movement, there is no relief...

The betrayed spouse never leaves------sounds good in theory.

But what do you do when your H's way to "deal" is withdrawal and silence? for days? I've got in his face, told him its unacceptable, laid out my terms, and still no movement--- except, "I'm sorry, I was wrong, are you hungry? do you want to eat?"

And I say, "[email protected]#$%&*#^@&!!!" I don't care what you want for dinner, I'm not cooking! Just get something.......for yourself...."

And then I go into the library.

And it's peaceful and silent

for the next four hours....

going to bed, just exhausted.


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## I_Will_Survive (Oct 28, 2011)

DO NOT LEAVE!

I'm living with my WH - it's hard but it's possible. It's me that is uncommunicative (not nearly as much as your WH - mostly I'm just polite.) I want to get angry, to scream and throw things, but I don't, for our kids. He's still pretending that he hasn't done anything wrong. 

I hack his emails and when he writes to OW he calls me "Frosty the Snow B****." WTF does he want?? 

But a friend who went through a similar thing had a fight with her wH and when pushing him (and he's also much bigger than she is) he tripped and fell. And then he called the police and she was taken from her own house in handcuffs.

DO NOT GET ANGRY AND PUSH HIM OR HIT HIM!!

Just hang in there and see a lawyer a.s.a.p. Be strong!! You can do it!


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## blissful (Nov 14, 2011)

I dont have any constructive advice for you, just want to empathise. this waiting is the worst. you feel like you're in limbo just _waiting_ for what i dont know- for him to make the first move, for an apology that shows _true_ remorse, for some answers- why?, what was missing in a marriage that you thought was great? how could you? didnt you think of me when you were doing this? etc. 

Well, this is how I'm feeling anyway. And you literally want to shake him awake- for him to say _something, anything_ so that you at least have a rational explanation as to why you world is in pieces right now.

i didnt follow the rule, i left. i had to for my sanity. being surrounded by family helps. i guess the question we need to ask ourselves, is how long are we prepared to live in limbo? bleh, easier said than done...


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

blissful said:


> I dont have any constructive advice for you, just want to empathise. this waiting is the worst. you feel like you're in limbo just _waiting_ for what i dont know- for him to make the first move, for an apology that shows _true_ remorse, for some answers- why?, what was missing in a marriage that you thought was great? how could you? didnt you think of me when you were doing this? etc.
> 
> Well, this is how I'm feeling anyway. And you literally want to shake him awake- for him to say _something, anything_ so that you at least have a rational explanation as to why you world is in pieces right now.
> 
> i didnt follow the rule, i left. i had to for my sanity. being surrounded by family helps. i guess the question we need to ask ourselves, is how long are we prepared to live in limbo? bleh, easier said than done...




Every breakup we have ever had I have always left, then he makes some grand gesture (first it was a new place in the neighborhood I grew up in, and the second time it was our wedding, which HE planned) and we get back together.

Now I am trying to say, its enough. I am not going to kill myself trying to move again. And he refuses to "give up" on our marriage. 

What a bunch of pooh.

How long ago did you leave? Did it make any difference? What are things like now between you?


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## blissful (Nov 14, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Every breakup we have ever had I have always left, then he makes some grand gesture (first it was a new place in the neighborhood I grew up in, and the second time it was our wedding, which HE planned) and we get back together.
> 
> Now I am trying to say, its enough. I am not going to kill myself trying to move again. And he refuses to "give up" on our marriage.
> 
> ...


I left about 2 weeks ago. The only difference it made is that I'm not such a bundle of nerves. I dont think it made much of a difference to him. He's only form of apology was via email & it was full of subtle undertines of blame shifting, "I only did it cos ..." 

Now things between us have entered the cold war stage... no contact, no communication. The only conversation we've had abt this was by my initiation. Now I'm fed up. there's only so long you can wait for someone to come to their senses, to show tue remorse, to put your feelings first before their own selfish desires. If by Friday, I dont hear anything from him I'm meeting with a lawyer regarding D. sucks big time


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

blissful said:


> I left about 2 weeks ago. The only difference it made is that I'm not such a bundle of nerves. I dont think it made much of a difference to him. He's only form of apology was via email & it was full of subtle undertines of blame shifting, "I only did it cos ..."
> 
> Now things between us have entered the cold war stage... no contact, no communication. The only conversation we've had abt this was by my initiation. Now I'm fed up. there's only so long you can wait for someone to come to their senses, to show tue remorse, to put your feelings first before their own selfish desires. If by Friday, I dont hear anything from him I'm meeting with a lawyer regarding D. sucks big time


Its really crazy-making isn't it?

I sit in the library of my house all night, every night. He is either silent or makes small talk. We didn't speak all weekend after a big blowout on friday night-- sunday right before bed, he wanted his ring back---said he didnt want our marriage to be over, blah, blah---now its weds, still no talking. 

Maybe he thinks this is helping, but its not. I really don't want to leave my house, but I can't take the silence FOREVER.

I'm sure he only wanted the ring back so he would have it for work, so he wouldn't have to tell anyone we are separating. I'm sure it would look very bad for him if he said he was getting a D --after just taking a promotion recently.

I found an online form that will print a legal separation agreement, for both parties to sign and file with the court.

I really want to do this, but he has to agree to sign--and I don't think he will do it.

I sent him a text and asked if he is planning on contesting the paperwork---that i can have it done by the end of the week if he agrees.

No response.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Here is his response:

"That's not what I want"


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## blissful (Nov 14, 2011)

oh, well at least he's clear on what he doesn't want. so then what the he!! _does_ he want? Maybe he thinks that by giving you space, you'll calm down. I dont think they realise that it's a sure fire way to irritate the living daylights out of your spouse.

I feel like a crazy woman- I'm fine then I'm not, then the cycle starts again. Would you consider counselling- at least your H has made _some_ attempt to fight for the marriage (even though it seems like a feeble attempt, its something). My H has dropped off the face of the earth. Maybe if you go into counselling together then the counsellor will be able to explain the importance of coming clean completely?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Well you didn't ask him what he wants, you asked him if he would sign. You got to that point because he wouldn't and still hasn't told you what he does want. Keep proceeding until he says yes or no, at least then you've got a concrete position from him and you can react accordingly.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Well you didn't ask him what he wants, you asked him if he would sign. You got to that point because he wouldn't and still hasn't told you what he does want. Keep proceeding until he says yes or no, at least then you've got a concrete position from him and you can react accordingly.


There is no concrete position with him.

He says he wants us to stay together, then we get into an argument and dont speak for 4 days.

When he does say something, it will be right as he is walking out the door in the morning, "Will you give me a hug goodbye?"

And I say, "I dont feel comfortable doing that, when you approach me when you only have 5 seconds, it is obvious you really dont want to connect with me at all"

He just smiles and then its off to work.

How do I feel when this is his only communication? (other than outright fighting or the silent treatment)

I feel like he's setting me up again. Like he's only doing it so he can check out some more and say (a week from now--or whenever I try to speak) "I tried to come to you in love, and you rejected me"

Its just a load of crap. I am really starting to think we are in a narcissist/codep. relationship. 

So I am going to keep refusing to fall back and "reset". I am committed to holding my ground.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I agree you're not going to get a concrete position from him verbally. That's why I said keep going with the separation paperwork. When you put that paperwork on the table with a pen on top of it - he'll either sign it or he won't - that's a concrete position - literally black and white. If he won't either he'll take it as a wake up call and get committed to trying to save the marriage or he'll just say "no" and maintain his usual behavior. In the case of the latter I guess at that point you have to proceed with a contested divorce.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I agree you're not going to get a concrete position from him verbally. That's why I said keep going with the separation paperwork. When you put that paperwork on the table with a pen on top of it - he'll either sign it or he won't - that's a concrete position - literally black and white. If he won't either he'll take it as a wake up call and get committed to trying to save the marriage or he'll just say "no" and maintain his usual behavior. In the case of the latter I guess at that point you have to proceed with a contested divorce.


I dont know why I didnt see it this way before. Its so reasonable! Thank you!

I guess I was stuck because he originally said he would agree to all the conditions of the post nup and wanted to stay together.

Then came the big fight (before I got the post nup done)--when he stayed out all night and refused to pick up his cell. Came home drunk and told me to go ahead and file--and he didn't have to leave.

We didnt speak for 4 days. Then I moved from post nup to separation agreement. He backed off the attitude but stayed silent. We are still not talking and he is leaving me alone, till the 5 second interchange we had this morning.

He still leaves money for me and buys household things I need, but there is no communication, and its been a month. The only reason I am still here is Betrayed Spouse Never Leaves. 

And I am still in shock its all gone down.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow, 4pm Saturday and not one word. I remember him saying something the other day like "well, you haven't spoken to me either" or some such nonsense.

I guess what's amazing is that HE is the one who got caught, and it really seems like I am being punished for finding out.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, last night I came out of the library and made the last of the food in the fridge before it went bad. He said, "What are you doing?"

I told him I was tired of throwing away food because he didn't feel like talking. When I was done, I took a plate into the library to eat alone and shut the door. (the last 2 times I have cooked we ate in silence in the same room). So he knocks on the door and wants to know why I dont want to eat with him---and I snapped, "Why do you do this? The last few times I have ---you didn't say one word. I am tired of being ignored by you! I would rather just eat by myself."

Well, this started a big "discussion" and it just isn't working out. He doesn't get it. We talked, then argued for 3 hours. Then he said, "I need a break, nothing productive will be accomplished tonight."

I was livid. "You need a break? You have been dishing out the silent treatment for A MONTH. You've had more than enough of a break. I told you what I needed to stay, you are not stepping up."

Blah, blah, blah.

Now he's saying he wants the post-nup and he wants to go to counseling, we can talk more tomorrow. WTF? Why doesn't he get it??? I need him to talk to me. I need him to give a damn. I know I am banging my head. I know it should be easy. But its just hard because whatever I do --he seems to do the opposite. Whatever I say, he says "no, that's not true"

I was so exhausted last night, I said, "Don't you realize this? That we are not on the same page about anything?" 

No answer. He just said, "We need to take a break from talking now"

Back to the silence.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> No answer. He just said, "We need to take a break from talking now".


 Translation, "I am in the wrong but do not want to admit it".


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Here's my silence *middle finger*

And then i'd have my shet packed and get a hotel.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

TRy said:


> Translation, "I am in the wrong but do not want to admit it".


I know, right?

Well, I finally finished printing out my separation papers and am crying big tears. When I had to give a reason for temporary spousal support it was:

"having not worked in 6 years, much of this due to marital/family issues, including the loss of the only child of the marriage. H also agrees that because she suborned her career for his she is entitled to short term support."

My heart is really breaking, I have never got over losing the baby. I was over half way thru and around the 5 month mark started having problems, it was a terrifying time. It was such a sad time. A fetal demise is different than a miscarriage. I've had both. 

Now i feel the demise of my relationship with the father of this child. And I loved them both, incredibly.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I know, right?
> 
> Well, I finally finished printing out my separation papers and am crying big tears. When I had to give a reason for temporary spousal support it was:
> 
> ...


Sorry.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

TBT said:


> Sorry.


Thanks TBT ---- i mean it wholebunches.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I know, right?
> 
> Well, I finally finished printing out my separation papers and am crying big tears. When I had to give a reason for temporary spousal support it was:
> 
> ...


((((HUGS))))

Your post really hit me hard. I know how you feel about your the death of your baby. In 1985 I had a very hard pregancy that ended with still born twins in the 6th month. You are fight that it's nothing like a miscarriage. I had a miscarriage a couple of years before that. I was a mess for years after the death of my twins. Everytime someone started talking about their baby I had to leave because I would break down. I know where you are at and I feel for you.

I did eventually get over the deepest part of the pain when we adopted a baby boy in 1989. Thought I still grieve my twins it's much more tollerable now.

Hopefully you will get through this marital problem you have now and eventually come to peace with all of this.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> ((((HUGS))))
> 
> Your post really hit me hard. I know how you feel about your the death of your baby. In 1985 I had a very hard pregancy that ended with still born twins in the 6th month. You are fight that it's nothing like a miscarriage. I had a miscarriage a couple of years before that. I was a mess for years after the death of my twins. Everytime someone started talking about their baby I had to leave because I would break down. I know where you are at and I feel for you.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for your reply. My heart goes out to you having to endure such a heartbreaking loss----I can barely deal with my own situation, I am crying hearing your story.

I think of all the women before us who have physically had to go through this, I don't know if the fathers can understand, although I know they grieve in ways of their own. 

In the end I believe our children come to us when they are ready and we get to meet them when they are born or are adopted. Each has such a unique personality, even when they are so small, don't they?

When I found out--I chose to go home and let the baby come naturally. Many people told me this was wrong, if the baby is dying, you should just go in and have the surgery, since there is no hope but waiting for the inevitable.

But I just couldn't do it. I wanted to stay with the baby as long as it was still with me. And when the moment came it was really bad, I got in a tub of water and lit candles. I prayed. My husband was calling 911 because I started to hemorrhage, but I knew I was ok. 

I had a beautiful parting ceremony for the baby in front of the fireplace the next day, I prayed and burned a candle, I shaped the wax into a heart that I keep in a shimmering pure white angel box.

I am now having peri-meno symptoms, so I know this was my last chance to have a baby. 

Did you have a parting "ceremony" for your twins?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Thanks very much for your reply. My heart goes out to you having to endure such a heartbreaking loss----I can barely deal with my own situation, I am crying hearing your story.
> 
> I think of all the women before us who have physically had to go through this, I don't know if the fathers can understand, although I know they grieve in ways of their own.
> 
> ...


(((HUGS))) to both of you. I lost a daughter at 6 1/2 months. I have two boys now but always miss the 'older' sister that should be chasing them around. And yes - 5 1/2 years after, I still cry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Thanks TBT ---- i mean it wholebunches.


You're welcome.My then wife and I lost a child not long after he was born,but he was a real part of us for all those months before his arrival.The hopes,the dreams and the future we saw for him and us as a family were reflected in everything we did prior to his birth.I felt so helpless seeing my wife broken in suffering knowing there wasn't anything I could do.The loss also became one of the catalyst for the end of our marriage.I still grieve after many years,especially when alone with my thoughts where he'll always live.

I hope the rest of your life is kind to you and many good blessings come your way.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Sorry LWC. I wish I could knock some sense into your H for you.

((((hug))))


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Sorry LWC. I wish I could knock some sense into your H for you.
> 
> ((((hug))))


Well, in a way you did----putting the separation papers on the table CHANGED EVERYTHING. And not just for him, but for me as well. I wasn't expecting that.

I was done being angry when I realized the true weight of what I was doing with a post-nup. I just thought, "Do I really want to stay in a marriage where I have to contract with my husband to keep his vows?" --"What am I DOING?!" So I just put all the terms into a separation agreement instead.

I felt a wave of love and gratitude for the chance we had been given---even though everything was ending. 

His voice changed entirely, and he said---I'll sign it if this is what you need, but this is not anything that I want. I understand that you need to feel like I am not going to ruin anything else for you and I'm so sorry I hurt you. I just think things are really bad for us right now, and I really need to deal with my depression and my other problems. I'm sorry I don't know what the right thing to do is. I wish I did. I love you.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

I actually feel very changed. Something about putting the whole marriage on paper----put things in perspective.

Now I don't know if I DO want to stay in the house, now that he said I could. Now I am thinking, what about moving out? Maybe that IS what I want.

I was talking with my daughter today on her break between classes and she asked if we were really going to separate. And I told her, I think it really is happening. That I loved him and wasn't angry, I hoped we could both find happiness one day. That I was thankful for what he had given us, thankful he was there for her till the day she moved away---and I would rather honor what he did than hate him for what he failed to do.

And she said, does he honor what you have given him?

"My morality is not dictated by him."

I feel relief, such relief. Yes, I am still crushed...

But I somehow forgot that I create my own life.

Good thing I remembered.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> But I somehow forgot that I create my own life.
> 
> Good thing I remembered.


:smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

I've posted lots of threads here on CWI. Some venting---some sad---some that shocked me (to see myself in the grips of righteous anger)---some that literally broke my heart---and some that brought profound insights.

I've read so many stories here....so many big tears came out in honor of these wonderful people who gathered here to find solace at the height of their pain. The moment they learned the Truth, or the moment they saw the first crack in the facade...

Its been 3.5 months since dday. It still feels like yesterday. I trigger like crazy when he's on the computer. I don't know if or when I will ever be able to be intimate again. We still sleep in separate rooms... so no hysterical bonding going on at my house.

I am still horrified that he destroyed the hard drive. I know he did this to keep me in the dark. The sites he was visiting were not porn. They were men seeking....women seeking....etc. All live stuff cam to cam. Next step is meeting in person.... It breaks my heart that he was going to these chat rooms, checking out real girls that wanted to hook up for sex. Naked. Doing all kinds of sexual things. I'll never know if he met anyone in real life. But I know he did NOT want me to find out what he was up to......

The thing that made me feel the best since this happened? Having my OB/GYN say, "You may never know what happened, but you have complete control over yourself. Right now, if his physical infidelity is even a* remote* possibility, we need to get this done. I want to do a full STD panel. And then you'll at least know where you stand."

Waiting on the results now, each one that comes back negative dries the tears a little. 

Nerve wracking, though.


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## Crazytown (Sep 27, 2010)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> "If you want to throw away 8 years of marriage because of one mistake, that's up to you, I'm not going to rehash this"


I hate that line. I have heard it too. My response was, "no, YOU threw away the relationship when YOU chose to do this. Not me. Don't try to put the blame on me..."

Sorry, you are going through this...


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## Annie 54 (Mar 24, 2013)

Hi 
I agree if you decide to stay married how can you TRUST anything he says again... trust me my Man use to minimize any emails should I come in to the room stop texting and end calls ... he was having an affair .... I decide to forgive and live with it ..... and for 3 years it was okay... and then it started up again and all the old trust issues came back .... he finally left.... if you decide to forgive your man then that is up to you .... none of us out here live your life every day .... But and it's a big but..... go with your first thoughts it's usually the right way to go... you have no idea how far this may have gone as others have said to destroy a hard drive it MUST be bad ....


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

*Zombie thread*


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Yeah, I just got in his face again, asking about why he trashed the pc, what's the deal with the porn, etc, and he finally had enough and walked out--- said he was going for a walk (that was an hour ago)-- he's prolly at the bar or who knows.....Happy weekend to me  !


Why don't you just divorce the poor schmuck...You will spend the rest of your life trying to catch him with porn, so just dump him and then you can both get a new life...You would not be the first to divorce over pixels...


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