# My wife cheated and it hurts



## travelinman (Jul 28, 2013)

We've been together for around 11 years. In that time, I've found a secret phone 3 times. Never any physical cheating that I could ascertain; but she wanted to talk to old male friends that she knew I didn't trust. Instead of breaking them off, she hit the communications.

Fast forward to now. I found another phone. Texts in it show a planned meeting, and a thank you, it was wonderful. And texts the same day to yet a second single guy that was hitting on her. She came fully clean, as far as I can tell, and owned up to everything. She met the sexual tryst at the gym where she had been going to try and feel better about herself, and he said and did all the right things to make her feel good. She went over to his house 4 or 5 times, with the last time for the express purpose of sex. 

Here's the deal. I love her, and have always loved her. I am angry, hurt, confused, violated, etc, you name it. I am 53 and would rather get past this and maybe get better, than divorce and be alone. Is it possible? Will I ever get the images out of my mind, and the thoughts that come to me with little provocation?

I know she wasn't getting the emotional support from me, as I just got tired of being the only one giving in the relationship. She admits to this also, and understands they why. She makes no excuses, and claims it has never happened before with us. We are starting counseling to see where it will lead. Right now, I don't even want to touch her or her touch me. She feels dirty. I just know what we had at one time, and wonder if that basis will be enough to move forward. Or if I should cut my losses and run. She has even agreed to a post nup that will state if she is ever unfaithful, even in hiding a phone, that she will leave the marriage with nothing. She swears it was a huge mistake, is extremely sorry, and swears it will never happen again.

Maybe talking here in this forum will help me? Am I being stupid? Oh, I am her third husband. She left #1 for #2, and #2 for me. I fell for her, hook line and sinker. I realize I should not have, as she was not yet divorced, but that was a long time ago, and the main reason we didn't marry for 7 years.

She has serious self worth issues, and I believe it led to the current situation. Not a reason or excuse, just a fact. She made the conscious choice to do what she did. I may or may not agree with what I read and hear here, but am hoping it will help me deal with it all. It's been a week since this all went down...


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

She cheated on both prior husbands, the last one with you, and your shocked she cheated on you?

Really?


You don't see a pattern here?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

Oh and I'm glad you got your just deserts. Now you know what her first husband felt like. Second husband doesn't count since he was a cheat like you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## travelinman (Jul 28, 2013)

Thought this forum might offer some support. Didn't realize the haters abounded.

When i met my wife, she was on a dating site, and was looking because their marriage was over. Abuse and controlling issues from what i was told. Yes, I was stupid and believed it all. And fell for her hard. I'm not justifying what happened 11 years ago. I am dealing with the now. If all you have is enough hatred to only put me down, keep it to yourself. I know the history better than you, and know what I did or did not do. I am not asking to be judged, but asking for help 

Very disappointed in losers that all they can fling are one liners. Oh, and #1 cheated on her and is why she found #2. No reasons are valid and they all suck, but trying to either salvage 11 years if possible, or move on.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

travelinman said:


> Here's the deal. I love her, and have always loved her. I am angry, hurt, confused, violated, etc, you name it. I am 53 and would rather get past this and maybe get better, than divorce and be alone. Is it possible? Will I ever get the images out of my mind, and the thoughts that come to me with little provocation?


Despite loving and always loving her, the only way you're going make it work, on your end, is to put up with her having something on the side. I say "your end" because even if you let her sow her oats, she may, and probably will leave you. You've got a tiger by the tail my man.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Friend

You said she has self worth issues. Newsflash! She has NO self worth. Look at her track record. What does that tell you? She's gone through three husbands like crap through a goose. You found 4 secret phones which tell you that there are what? 4 guys she's talking to? What is there to discuss? I don't care if your 53 or 153, call animal control, have them come out, put a leash on her and tell them to drag this dog off your property. No doubt she gave the same line of shineola to husband 1 and two.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I really hate to say this but the problem is not getting images out of your mind it is getting and keeping other men *out of her*...Sorry...I don't think she would be willing to commit to that....

the woodchuck


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Let me put this as nicely as I can, dump the b!tch now! You know her history, and she ain't going to change.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

After knowing that she cheated on her first two husband with the next including you...No matter what the prior husbands were or did...why did you think things would be any different this time??:scratchhead:


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## travelinman (Jul 28, 2013)

I hear what you are all saying. Let me add a few things.

I own my own business. If we divorce, most of what I've built will be gone. A post nup will protect me if it happens in the future. And if it doesn't happen in the future, we may be able to build an even better life.

Can counseling fix whatever issues drives her to act as she does? Can her actions of the past change with proper counseling and make it where there is a good chance of it not repeating? Am I just fooling myself thinking there's a possibility?

Divorce is hard, losing my business is hard, being alone is hard, trying to make it work is hard. I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. Not cut and dried by any means.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I would suggest MC for starters and maybe IC for her for her self esteem issues. It is going to take time and a lot of talking for the two of you. She needs to answer all your questions and be transparent. Your going to go through the stages of grief...sadness/depression, anger/rage, acceptance/compromise...you may cycle through these phases over and over as you heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I understand your problem of getting a divorce. She clearly is in damage control and trying to minimize her actions. I would strongly suggest that you get tested for STD's. If this is the 3rd time you caught her with secret phones because she was talking to other men then the chances are pretty good that this is the first time she actually confessed. If you are honest with yourself you probably already know that the chances are pretty good that she has cheated on you previously.

Since divorce is not an option then I would suggest trying to develop your own separate life to find happiness while still be legally married to her. Again get tested for STD's. Good luck.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Either you get rid of this serial cheater or you can accept the fact that your WW has sex with other men and there's nothing you will do about it. FYI, living in limbo like you're doing is hell.


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

Here's a woman's perspective: She is a liar, a cheater, an absolute disgrace to your marriage. All of these instances have previously happened and you wonder if this will happen again?

Let me ask you this. Why wouldn't it happen again? What evidence has she shown that she is trustworthy, let alone committed to you and your marriage? 4 burner phones, and you think you may have a chance?? Really? Either you are in denial or just plain ignorant to think that this woman will be faithful going forward.

Look, businesses can be re-built, money can be replenished, your wife's chances of remaining faithful are nil. Sorry! At 53 yrs old, you still have a chance to find happiness and start over with someone who will value YOU! Go for the fresh start and don't look back.


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## travelinman (Jul 28, 2013)

MC has already started. IC is also needed, I am positive. She has owned up to everything as far as I can tell with full transparency. I've investigated all I could to verify what I was told. Verifies protection was used, but is getting tested at my request this week.

My grief stages are in full force, without a doubt. 

Can 'a serial cheater' change? Can I get past this? I've read/heard that some marriages actually end up stronger afterwards. Is that a pipe dream?

Really have to think to understand some of these acronyms. WW?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

WW is wayward wife. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Your wife has been caught 3 separate times by you on a hidden phone flirting and at least emotionally cheating on you with different men and you have constantly forgiven her. She physically cheats on you and you forgive her again and wish to rug sweep it away. This never works.

I have a hunch that your wife sees you as a really nice man that would continually forgive her for various types of cheating and knew even if she got caught cheating on you that you would forgive her again anyway so therefore she had really nothing to lose. All she had to do was shed some tears and she was back in your good graces again. What is wrong with this picture? Am I wrong with this analysis?


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## travelinman (Jul 28, 2013)

By no means have her tears put her in any good graces. Not a day has gone by since that has been even bearable. In order to even consider attempting to try, I required that she admit to her brothers and sisters what she did, and would have her parents had they been alive. She did this. I required a post nup where if she ever strays again, she leaves with nothing, and it is uncontested. A legal document is a lot more than just a promise of an end if it ever happens again. She has agreed. She knows she has ruined the best thing she ever had in her life. I believe this. I am pretty adept at spotting a lie when it is in front of me. I believe what I have heard/seen to this point. She wants to get the counseling, both for our marriage, and for herself to resolve many parts of her personality and history.

I just don't know if any of this will be enough for me to get past it. I know I will never forget it.

I see most say cut and run, and I assume some of that is from anger from previous relationships. Maybe I am fooling myself, but is there any support for trying this direction? It's only been a week, so no long term decisions are being fully made until a lot of the anger has subsided where I can think more clearly.

I've never cheated, but I know there have been times, when out drinking with the guys, that it could have happened. It happens a lot more than I ever thought, and I am not perfect, as is any other human being. But can a human being change what they have learned throughout their life as to what they do that is damaging to themselves and others? Or is it ingrained in their genes, and no amount of therapy or counseling will have any affect?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Here are explicit instructions if you want the current situation
VARs

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. Set bit rate to 44K and sensitivity to very high or better. Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off.

Put the second in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around.

Usual warning. If you hear another man get in her car STOP Listening and have a trusted friend tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! NO MORE CONFRONTS!! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You always got your info from a PI or someone saw them.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.

Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I think the financial protection you get from the post-nup is very important for your situation.

If that is settled I think you could look anew at the situation, I see you handle this relatively well, so if you continue posting here finally you will get out of the mess, with or without her. That is very important for your own happiness.

We can't see if she is the exception to the rule, but there are indeed inbelievable cases where even then the relation can be saved.

Don't give up your business, start there first I would say.


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## Europa (Oct 28, 2011)

Gotta tell ya man, you need to get out of that relationship. You found a secret phone three times? She sounds just like my wife.

Some women are just cheaters. And natural liars. There is no changing that. My wife has lied to me so many times and snuck around so many times it's a wonder to me she's able to lift herself up off her belly.

You're 53, you're getting too old to waste your time with that kind of BS. Get out while you can and find a real woman who will treat you right.

I'm pulling for you. I know how much it sucks. Good luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Why should she change ? 

How long were you married? If it ust 4 years, you shouldn't lose much(Get a lawyer advice on this though)


She had burner phones throughout the marriage. This only means that she was a serial cheater cheating on you for quite some time. Ask her to take a polygraph test. You will horrified if she decides to come clean. And from the sounds of it, it looks like these affairs were casual hook ups rather than emotional affairs. So get tested for STDs immediately


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## Keepin-my-head-up (Jan 11, 2013)

Yes!
They can change.
So much goes into it though.
Do they really want to change, are they willing to put in all the work required to change, do they have the right counselor/psychiatrist//pastor/ support group?

Are you wiling to wait years to see it happen with no guarantees that it will, knowing the longer you stay married the more she will most likely get?

Right now you know who she is.
It's not a one time being horny thing.
There is a history of a long period of time that she has shown exactly what and who she is.

So to answer your question, yes people can change but no, it is not guaranteed


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Did she "cheat" on H#2 with you? I wouldn't count "married but separated" as cheating....however, no matter if she was on a "dating site" or what she was doing, if she was not separated, was sharing a home with H#2, and only left him after you....well then....you brought this misery on yourself. 

On the other hand, if she was truly separated, pending divorce, and this happened, well, sorry for your suffering. I'd say move on. One "burner phone" is one too many. And most certainly, several burner phones and an affair? Do you really need to know any more than that? There's the old saying "a leopard can't change its spots". Or, one of my old man's favorite sayings..."a dog bites you the first time, it's the dog's fault. Do bites you a second time, it's YOUR fault". In other words...don't put yourself or the dog in a position to be able to bite you a second time! A dog that bites once simply cannot be trusted ever again. If you do trust the dog after that first bite, well, you've got nobody to blame but yourself when he takes a chunk our of your shin the next go around...


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Travelinman, I know that what folks are saying on here seem harsh and yes there are even folks that say burn them at the stake for cheating. However, the best indication of future behavior is past behavior. If I understand correctly, she has cheated on every husband she has ever had, so you have to admit that there is a pattern. Serial cheaters have a hard time being truthful as they have used lying as a defense mechanism for so long, that they can even come to believe there own lies. 

You can do whatever you want and don't need mine or anybody elses approval to do so. While the comments may seem harsh, oddly enough they are mostly meant for shock value to make you understand that the odds of her being faithful are not good as she has proven time and again. Many on here have been burnt and hope to get you to not suffer anymore than you already have, a tough love if you will.

I understand your desire to try to reconcile with the counseling and post nup to try to CYA. Naturally you could take the advise of many on here and file for divorce. You have already noted that there are drawbacks to both courses of action. It is a lot harder to financially cash in your chips at 50, then if you were say 30. Many will point out the self respect issue and while that is certainly true, they aren't in your shoes.

My advice is this, take you a day or two and get away to weigh the choices one more time and come up with a plan. If you decide to stay, then the key is the wording of the legal agreement that you sign. You can say she gets nothing if she cheats again, but what is the burden of proof and what type of evidence is admissible in court in your state. I know you want to take her at your word, but when it comes to money, many people lie. I wish you the best of luck.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

In the end, only you can make the decision about what is best for you.

All I can really say is that fear of being alone is an absolutely horrible reason to stay in a relationship.

I actually have a friend who stayed in a physically abusive relationship for years because she said she was afraid of being alone.

What I saw in her, and she eventually had to get counseling for it, was a very low self-esteem that led to this irrational fear. So bad that she almost didn't exist as an individual person. She was like a mirror that had to reflect another person to possess any character or personality because she had never really established one of her own.

I doubt you have self-esteem issues as bad as my friend, but the thought that you should just accept your WS's crappy actions towards you because you are afraid of being on your own does suggest to me that you should consider IC to work on this issue.


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## TimesOfChange (Mar 20, 2013)

Bro, your sanity is worth more than your business. Dump her, before she wrecks your mind completely. As long as you keep your mental health, you can rebuild your life.
Talking from experience...


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Three burner phones and one PA as of you know now, But why you believe it was only talking with Other guys? I think it will be good to have a polygraph.

She is an experienced cheater, who cheated through out all of her relationship. Can she change? In my opinion its not possible for her because cheating is a way of life and she don't have any moral or integrity.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Travel,

My best advice ... take her up on that post-nup ASAP .. then figure out how to divorce her. She is a serial cheater and will never be loyal. You can't change that. Best to just protect yourself financially and mentally.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I'd say to play along and be sure she signs an enforceable post nup, you loose nothing.
To be honest her need for external validation is so huge she will likely screw up sooner than later.
At the very least the product of your hard work would be better protected.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Most pre-nups and post-nups do not hold up in court. What happens is that her attorney will claim she signed it under duress
in order to preserve the marriage or whatever. They are notoriously difficult to hold up.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

A couple that gets together through cheating only has a 3% chance of having a long term relationship. The odds of having a ltr with a serial cheater must be astronomical. In the last few years, only a couple of serial cheaters have shown up here that have made i and that was with a faithful husband.

In her heart she doesn't believe you or anyone else is faithful. She thinks she is the normal one. Otoh, you reap what you sow.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Despite loving and always loving her, the only way you're going make it work, on your end, is to put up with her having something on the side. I say "your end" because even if you let her sow her oats, she may, and probably will leave you. You've got a tiger by the tail my man.


Let it free.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Three burner phones and one PA as of you know now, But why you believe it was only talking with Other guys? I think it will be good to have a polygraph.
> 
> She is an experienced cheater, who cheated through out all of her relationship. Can she change? In my opinion its not possible for her because cheating is a way of life and she don't have any moral or integrity.


He nailed it. She's getting off on her "mastery" of these affairs. Your part of the program as well. You are the reliable cog in the wheel that she uses, while she can get sex from these "hot" guys.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Acabado said:


> I'd say to play along and be sure she signs an enforceable post nup, you loose nothing.
> To be honest her need for external validation is so huge she will likely screw up sooner than later.
> At the very least the product of your hard work would be better protected.


It's not worth holding onto it. Your dealing with what's supposed to be your life partner, who is very promiscous - possibly bringing you diseases if you are still having physical engagments with her.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You ask if serial cheaters can change. From the studies I've read, they are the most resistant to change because you are dealing with a complete mindset and way of life. If she is a serial cheater (and she sounds like it), she went into your marriage with no expectation of fidelity on her part. She really can't conceive of a personal life in which she is truly committed to just one person.

I agree with many of the others that you probably only know a fraction of what she has really done. I think the advice to do what you can to protect your businesses and finances, as you dig to unearth whatever else there is, is good advice.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

bryanp said:


> Most pre-nups and post-nups do not hold up in court. What happens is that her attorney will claim she signed it under duress
> in order to preserve the marriage or whatever. They are notoriously difficult to hold up.


So he should take care of this. Specialized lawyer, her own representation-assitance, previous IC, duress clause, taping the signing, reazonable and clear terms... I have no idea but whatever he needs to reduce the chances it get annuled.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

As I see things she's unlikely to change but after this kind of infidelity and cheater you must be selfish to the core and that means selfprotection, at all levels and thinking mid/long term.
As long as she's not actively cheating he's not disrespecting himself.
If he manages to lower his expectations, aware of the real chances for her to stop, fake it for a while by having a detached mindset of looking at things from a little afar he doesn't need to suffer emotionaly too bad. Many people unburden themselves of the pain and make long term exit plans.

Be selfish, whatever it means for you.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

travelinman said:


> I see most say cut and run, and I assume some of that is from anger from previous relationships. Maybe I am fooling myself, but is there any support for trying this direction?


You're 53 and run your own business? You already know the answers to the questions you are asking.

Yes, she can change, but it is extremely unlikely. How many people do you know throughout your life that have made that kind of change? She's been cheating on you probably from the start, those other burner phones probably were for the same purposes, she cheated on both her other husbands. 

What does it hurt to give her another chance? She's already been at least dishonest about other men to you throughout your entire relationship, you know she's cheated at least once, probably a bunch of other times that you can't prove, what will it hurt if you try this one last time? If you do try, use the voice-activated recorder from time to time - one week every other month or so should be enough - so that this just doesn't repeat over and over.

A post-nup probably will not protect your assets. Even pre-nups are not 100% effective. Check with your attorney as to how enforceable those things are. Have you considered divorcing your wife, then re-marrying her with a pre-nup? Would she not go for this?

Look at the other threads on this forum. Most are people like you. Look at what happened to them. Get a feel for the probability of outcomes for what you are going to attempt.

You know she sounds like one of those broken people who can't be fixed. You didn't paint a pretty picture. You only posted about how deceitful she is and how much of a cheater she has been, nothing of her good points, so how did you expect people to respond to your posts? 

Maybe you are the one who can finally fix her. Maybe she is finally ready to fix herself. It sounds like quite a project and the outcome seems very uncertain, but you sound like you are willing to give it a shot. If you do give it a try, would anything be a deal-breaker for you?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BashfulBull said:


> Oh and I'm glad you got your just deserts. Now you know what her first husband felt like. Second husband doesn't count since he was a cheat like you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's not helpful. 

Maybe none of them cheated? Maybe she was serially monogamous?

Dial back the "vengeance is mine" stuff, OK?


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

travelinman said:


> I hear what you are all saying. Let me add a few things.
> 
> I own my own business. If we divorce, most of what I've built will be gone. A post nup will protect me if it happens in the future. And if it doesn't happen in the future, we may be able to build an even better life.
> 
> ...


In your case I would make her sign a post nup and try to work it out. The alternative of divorce is just too damaging for you, i.e. losing a great deal of what you spent a significant part if your life building. Unfortunately the hooks are so deep that pulling them out makes more damage than letting them in.

Another unfortunate thing, if you chose to work it out, is that lost your partner, someone that is your equal. Instead you just became an unpaid babysitter for your wife, since she repeatedly demonstrated how she cannot be trusted on her own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

TravelinMan, I am confused....A couple pages back when you started making excuses for your wayward wife, you said you are a pretty good judge of character. After which infidelity did you realize that? Infidelity #1, #2 or #3? Please understand, you are 53 years old, you own a business and you wife is a serial cheater. Do not make excuses or justify her behaviors any longer. The answer is unlikely that she will change. There are 3 strikes in baseball for a reason! This game is over!!


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

travelinman said:


> In order to even consider attempting to try, I required that she admit to her brothers and sisters what she did, and would have her parents had they been alive. She did this. *I required a post nup where if she ever strays again, she leaves with nothing, and it is uncontested. A legal document is a lot more than just a promise of an end if it ever happens again. She has agreed. *She knows she has ruined the best thing she ever had in her life. I believe this.


It seems to me that you will not consider leaving your WS over what she has already done. I have my doubts that you know the full extent of her cheating, now, or in the past...

Get the postnup. A REALLY REALLY REALLY good postnup. With ALL the right stipulations... If you catch her phoning, sexting, meeting, screwing, etc., etc., ANYONE else, male or female(leave NOTHING to chance). Then be on your guard for when it happens again...

I say when, because there is no if. She WILL try to and/or cheat on you again. This is your out. The way to save your business when you finally do get divorced.

I'm serious, you need a postnup that is full proof and that covers EVERYTHING.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I would be far more likely to support reconciliation if this was the first time she had cheated ... it certainly doesn't sound like it. In fact, I think it is a pretty good bet that you don't have the entire truth yet. It seems hard to believe that she would go so far as to get burner phones if there wasn't a physical relationship ... maybe once ... but 4 times? 

There was another thread some time ago where the husband handed his cheating wife two options:

1) Divorce papers.
2) Post-nup agreement along with conditions of reconciliation.

In that case, the wayward spouse chose the latter and felt grateful that she was given the choice. It's a thought.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

From what I have seen in business, which is not too much btw, there are always methods to evade taxes, evade the sharing of profits based on standard, good, contracts, evade even the dividing of assets as provisioned before.

People fool their partners all the time. So there should be ways to transfer the values of your business to a place she can't get to.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Post--Nup--might hold in court---if it was signed wth a DURESS clause---as has already been brot up---so re-write the whole thing, and have it signed, with a duress clause---in front of a notary----where she will swear she is doing this of her own free will

This isn't just about her---this is also about you---what are you gonna be able to handle---you stated somewhere issues of self-worth, and issues of communication---going both ways---I guess self worth for her only----but what is it in her---that would prefer to jump in bed, and give herself to another man--than go to you and forcefully try and workout the problems

How much time did she actually spend, in working on her various relationships with her lovers---vis-à-vis---working on marital concerns

All mge's get boring, same old, same old---and have problems---it is up to the partners to talk, and work on making the mge better---as is now being done---tho now it is way to late, and may end up a dead-end

Your wife likes to use whatever excuse is laying around at the moment---and justify, hooking up with other men---what is gonna happen from this point on, that is gonna keep her from doing the very same thing, when there comes some little problem to the mge

Why now after her straying---does she all of a sudden wanna work on the mge, and now is doing all the right things---why didn't she do what was necessary prior to spreading her legs

As to both of you----you state you are out drinking with your buddies---how does that help your mge---cuz while you are out drinking with your buddies---she is on her own, doing whatever she is doing----do you think what you are doing falls into the definition of mge


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

travelinman said:


> Can 'a serial cheater' change?
> 
> Really have to think to understand some of these acronyms. WW?


WW = Wayward Wife

From most of the stories I've seen posted, serial cheaters don't change. It may be possible for them to, but it's unlikely they will try. They are typically manipulative and very cleaver with the lies. It's more likely she will lay low for a while. Then when she starts it back up she will be more careful not to get caught.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

travelinman said:


> We've been together for around 11 years. In that time, I've found a secret phone 3 times. Never any physical cheating that I could ascertain; but she wanted to talk to old male friends that she knew I didn't trust. Instead of breaking them off, she hit the communications.
> 
> Fast forward to now. I found another phone. Texts in it show a planned meeting, and a thank you, it was wonderful. And texts the same day to yet a second single guy that was hitting on her. She came fully clean, as far as I can tell, and owned up to everything. She met the sexual tryst at the gym where she had been going to try and feel better about herself, and he said and did all the right things to make her feel good. She went over to his house 4 or 5 times, with the last time for the express purpose of sex.
> 
> ...


If she has had multiple burner phones then she is a serial cheater. She has cheated on you with more than one man. Wether or not you love this woman is means nothing if the woman cares nothing about you. She is using you for a safety net while she lives the life she truly wants to live. I could care less about anything else. She is good and cheating and obviously bad at fidelity. You are wasting your time with this woman as she is a predator. She finds nice guys like you, makes you think you are the greatest thing ever. Then she gets you in a longterm relationship and starts looking for the next guy to charm. You are not going to change someone that's been doing this as long as your WW has. My friend cut your losses and run. She only wants you for your wallet.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

travelinman said:


> I see most say cut and run, and I assume some of that is from anger from previous relationships.


I remember thinking like this and the answer is no, its not projecting anger from past relationships. We all say the same thing because we have hindsight on our side. You are going down a path that millions have already been down and we know what works and what doesn't. 

You are hearing things you don't want to hear and wanting to make excuses for it. I did the same thing.



> Maybe I am fooling myself, but is there any support for trying this direction? It's only been a week, so no long term decisions are being fully made until a lot of the anger has subsided where I can think more clearly.


The problem is this, if you are desperate and/or afraid of losing everything then you will fail. Your fear will cause you to make mistakes.

In order to gain control again you have to be prepare to throw everything away. The more you try to do things to save your M, the more you will actually make things worse. SHE is the problem, not you. You can have a complete makeover and it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans to her. The ONLY thing that will get her attention and motivated to change is walking away from her. 

See, if she knows you won't leave she has NO motivation to change. Guilt isn't enough, she has to believe she is going to lose everything because of this before she even thinks about stopping. The nicer you are to her, the more you enable her bad behavior.

That being said, even if you R there's a 99% chance she'll do it again. Are you willing to live like that?


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

If you're only in this for the first week, wait till your subconscious sorts this out and you start to get angry. You'll get really, really angry and want to throw things (don't...), and yell, and vent and all that goes along with this kind of betrayal. 

Wait a while, see how you feel in a month. Travel the road with your eyes wide open. 

Meanwhile, the water tight post-nup is essential, because you don't have a good track record with her. Marriage is a legal instrument; she can beat you over the head with it. You're 53, you know this already. I've been through two myself. Make a lot of money but get to keep very little. You want to work for her the rest of your life? CYA, brother. 

I truly wish you the best, God bless you both.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

travelinman said:


> *. . . I see most say cut and run, and I assume some of that is from anger from previous relationships.* Maybe I am fooling myself, but is there any support for trying this direction? It's only been a week, so no long term decisions are being fully made until a lot of the anger has subsided where I can think more clearly . . .


Dear travelinman,

I've been happily married for 41 years -- no cheating by either of us and no divorce in either of our immediate families, ever. So when I say, "cut and run," it is not said out of anger. Rather, it is based on reading about a thousand threads on TAM/CWI, which has taught me that, in circumstances such as yours, the odds of ever having a loving, caring relationship with a serial cheater are slim to none and the fastest way for you to heal and start to have a good life again is to let go of her.

And, yes, you are fooling yourself if you think you have a good chance of saving this marriage. Practically no situation is hopeless but yours comes as close as one can imagine.

Absolutely, wait until you are thinking more clearly before making any big decisions, but don't rug sweep or allow her to. Until she shows remorse in a big time way and over an extended period of time (i.e., years), you are not out of the woods. If you choose to stay and she doesn't clean up her act, you will have wasted those years and set back your recovery, so think hard about this.

Listen to what people here are telling you. They know what of they speak. You ignore their advice at your own peril.

Good luck.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

travelinman said:


> But can a human being change what they have learned throughout their life as to what they do that is damaging to themselves and others? Or is it ingrained in their genes, and no amount of therapy or counseling will have any affect?


OP,

There are two basic things to consider about the cheating when trying to decide on R. Severity and frequency.

Severity of the cheating - long term nature, exit affair intention, getting pregnant, giving you std's, leaving for the OM first before coming back, trash talking you to the OM - all these are examples of high severity.

Frequency - with how many OM's and how often, with the length of your marriage/relationship being the denominator.

With high severity, you have to decide what is a deal breaker for you. If you want to R given what you know and your spouse is truly remorseful, then there may be a decent chance for R.

But with high frequency - the serial cheater, that's where your odds go way down, assuming her cheating again is your final deal breaker. You see with this type of cheating, unlike the high severity, you have a much stronger historical precedent. As the frequency of the cheating increases, it would be similar to betting on the Houston Astros to win their division this year. Even though they are 25 games under .500 in July; it's still mathematically possible. But highly, highly, unlikely.

If you understand that and still want to R with her, I'm glad she is willing to sign a post-nup. That's smart, because you will probably need it.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

In the quality world, we look at hazards that may become risks. A "risk matrix" is used. 

These are measured quite closely with what badmemory just posted above: likelihood and severity. As each value goes up, the consequences of the risk become less and less palatable to those managing risk. That person, in this case, is you.

There are different ways of managing risk. One way is to accept it, as it is minimal and isn't very likely to (a) happen and if it does, the severity (b) is low. So not much risk. 

Risk can be transferred, mitigated, and so on. You can't eliminate it entirely. Humans are involved, after all.

What you are doing here is seeing the proven past performance of high likelihood combined with severe ramifications in regards to risk to your family. The risk matrix colors this combination of factors as RED. Unacceptable. 

What are you willing to accept?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

ArmyofJuan said:


> I remember thinking like this and the answer is no, its not projecting anger from past relationships. We all say the same thing because we have hindsight on our side. You are going down a path that millions have already been down and we know what works and what doesn't.
> 
> You are hearing things you don't want to hear and wanting to make excuses for it. I did the same thing.
> 
> ...


This. 
:iagree:


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

travelinman said:


> I hear what you are all saying. Let me add a few things.
> 
> I own my own business. If we divorce, most of what I've built will be gone. A post nup will protect me if it happens in the future. And if it doesn't happen in the future, we may be able to build an even better life.
> 
> ...


So I'm guessing the post nup states something along the line that if she is caught you have to try to reconcile first and if she does it again she is out ?

If this is the fact then I would fake the R and just wait for her to do it again ( as she will ) and then enact the post nup agreement, thus saving your business and finances.

As far as everything else goes regarding fixing her. The simple answer is no.. You cannot fix her, she must want to be fixed.. I can tell you first hand from personal experience my wife faked R for 4 months and then moved out and moved in with this other man. 

It is obvious she has some deep rooted issues she needs to admit to and honestly look to figure out on her own.. 

It is also obvious your in your own fog as well. You say you want to kick her to the curb, but the truth is you really don't have the courage to do it. If you did you wouldn't need anyones permission here. 

What I personally have come to discover is every victim of infidelity puts this other person on this pedestal. It takes time to really see a person for whom they are. Once you can see your wife for the woman she truly is then you will be able to make a rational judgement. 

For me I can tell you once I took my Soon to be EX off that pedestal and my new GF said to me what happens to me ( meaning the girlfriend ) if your wife comes back ?

My answer was " What about me ? When do my feelings come into play ? When does anyone care what I want ?" 

The truth is for ME, I tried like you will to convince my wife to stay. I begged, I cried, I begged and then cried some more. End result she left me and pretty much the kids. She cut off all communication with everyone in HER family. Why because of shame. But she PRETENDS to act like nothing is wrong and that she is fine. 

Once I took her off the pedestal I can see that she really didn't do much for our family. She barely cooked 3 times a week. She never really cleaned the house and I come to discover my mother would wash the cloths and fold our laundry. My mother never told me because she didn't want to start any fights between us. 

My wife was caring and I got sex 2 to 3 times a week. But she was also very selfish. When you bring it all down to reality she did more for herself then she did for our family. But I couldn't see that beyond the light shining in my eyes from me looking up at that pedestal I placed her on. 

Today I have one child with me full time as he wants nothing to do with her and my other son is with me 5 days out of the week. My wife waved everything. My pension, My annuity and a few other things. 

My next mission is to get full custody of my kids this way she can be out of our lives completely.. Am I angry, you bet your fvcking as$ I am. I want her 10 years from now to look back and see what a horrible mistake she made. How we flourished without her and how she languished in the mud and filth she calls her life..

If you read my story labeled mymistake in my signature you will much of yourself in my early postings in that thread. 

Trust me once your mind normals out and you have her off that pedestal you will think very different of this woman you called your wife for so many years. Unfortunately it takes time for that to happen and it is different for everyone. For me it took 7 months. My relationship was 19 years, 14 married, 2 boys, 3 attempted affairs and one successful one for a total of 4 that I KNOW OF... 

Just keep posting and get stuff off your chest. Look for your true friends to help you out.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

badmemory said:


> OP,
> 
> There are two basic things to consider about the cheating when trying to decide on R. Severity and frequency.
> 
> Severity of the cheating - long term nature, exit affair intention, getting pregnant, giving you std's, leaving for the OM first before coming back, trash talking you to the OM - all these are examples of high severity.


Do you know that trash talking you to OM's isn't just fun and games. As she expands this part of her communication, communication with you will drive stress and insecurity into you. She's literally hating you. Why I say you have to drop them.




badmemory said:


> Frequency - with how many OM's and how often, with the length of your marriage/relationship being the denominator.
> 
> With high severity, you have to decide what is a deal breaker for you. If you want to R given what you know and your spouse is truly remorseful, then there may be a decent chance for R.
> 
> ...


I still say, they can't come back unless they know why they are coming back. They won't know why they want to come back until you have truly and truly RELEASED them.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

4 burner phones and a past history if cheating on her other husbands. 

You think she is being transparent. Maybe. 

You are assuming this would result in the loss of your business. Go talk to a lawyer if yo have not already done so. You may be surprised. 

Have you asked her to take a polygraph. Did she really admit to anything you didn't have an indicator on already? 

She is well practiced at the game of deception. She will do a better job of hiding it. That is one way you can expect her to change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

travelinman said:


> I hear what you are all saying. Let me add a few things.
> 
> I own my own business. If we divorce, most of what I've built will be gone. A post nup will protect me if it happens in the future. And if it doesn't happen in the future, we may be able to build an even better life.
> 
> ...


as hard as it might seem to lose some of your hard earned stuff.In the long run you will better off. Its take some time for that to sink in but eventually it will, hopefully sooner rather than later.

the price of happiness is huge sometimes.


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