# How to leave a cheater? Here is the Answer....



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I come across this article and find it may be helpful to others.


How to Leave a Cheater


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> I come across this article and find it may be helpful to others.
> 
> 
> How to Leave a Cheater


Excellent article! Thanks for sharing, very useful points on there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

Thanks for posting this. I've become a member of this site because of your link. 

Leaving a cheater is tough... but soooo rewarding. If anyone is on the fence, hurl yourself over toward the green grass on the other side of madness.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The title should be "How to Kick your Cheater Out" though. Why should the BS be the one to leave???


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

In many ways the advice is mirrored here 

Hope is right though, lots of BS get it into their heads to move out. 
This is a natural, and perfectly understandable, reaction but disastrous terms of access to children and the AP moving in!


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Good advice for anyone who is divorcing actually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdm9999 (May 20, 2012)

I have to keep reading that article because I sometimes mistake the cheater (my WH) for being nice, maybe reconcidering the affair, feeling bad, etc when he is really just buying time, stalling, and keep up his cake eating. I have to start thinking about this from the cheater's brain.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

cdm9999 said:


> I have to keep reading that article because I sometimes mistake the cheater (my WH) for being nice, maybe reconcidering the affair, feeling bad, etc when he is really just buying time, stalling, and keep up his cake eating. I have to start thinking about this from the cheater's brain.


Don't spend too much time inside a cheater's brain. Yuck. 

But yeah, it helps to understand that your moral world view is not shared by them. It really helped me to read the works of Dr. George Simon (there's an interview with him on that site). He's got a book on decoding manipulation. Watch what they DO, not what they say.

Simple advice, but very difficult IRL to internalize. It's so hard to think that people feign reconciliation or remorse, when you cannot imagine playing such high stakes poker with someone's heart.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

chumplady said:


> Thanks for posting this. I've become a member of this site because of your link.
> 
> Leaving a cheater is tough... but soooo rewarding. If anyone is on the fence, hurl yourself over toward the green grass on the other side of madness.


Your Advice was good, thought it will be useful for other BS. Good to see you here.


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## lostintheworld1 (Aug 7, 2011)

Wow! I am seeing complete anger and no hope or thought of reconciliation. I am one who would wish for counseling to try to stay together for your children and for love. Not because they are trying to screw you over somehow. I guess I am one who never tries to give up hope in love.


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## cdm9999 (May 20, 2012)

ohh....
I was in MC for a full year when my WH and I were having big problems.......well, turns out the A that I found out about 2 months ago was going on the WHOLE time of MC and even longer. No wonder we were having big problems. Even after i found out about A, I gave him several chances to go NC with OW and he wouldn't, but still yo-yo'd me around with sweetness and meanness.

I needed to realize that the cheater has a different moral compass and that is why this article is valuable to me. I need to print it out and keep it with me or at least reread it daily because I need strength and to remember what I am dealing with when dealing with a cheaters brain.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

lostintheworld1 said:


> Wow! I am seeing complete anger and no hope or thought of reconciliation. I am one who would wish for counseling to try to stay together for your children and for love. Not because they are trying to screw you over somehow. I guess I am one who never tries to give up hope in love.


But here's the cautionary tale -- your goodness can be used against you. Your very admirable desire to protect your children from pain, your hopes, your desire for a better outcome, and your fear to enforce consequences because it would hurt your kid's -- all those things, to a person who has character issues like cheating, are green lights to keep eating cake (cheating without consequences, having both an affair and a marriage). They'll go ahead because they know you want to save your family at all costs. 

If the person immediately repents, stops hurting you, quits cheating, tells the truth, does the hard work -- well, then I think it is a harder call. You can stay, but then you're stuck with someone who betrayed you and for whom it will be very difficult to ever trust again. A very hard path.

But anyone who blame shifts, gaslights, keeps the affair alive, wants you to "work harder" to keep the fabulous gift that is their cheating ass -- is someone IMO you should dump. ASAP.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*It is VERY important that you know what kind of cheater you have.*

The cheater that DOES NOT do the following
“If the person immediately repents, stops hurting you, quits cheating, tells the truth, does the hard work”

Should be divorced (DUMP ASAP) and the article that was linked in this thread utilized.

If the cheater does do 
“If the person immediately repents, stops hurting you, quits cheating, tells the truth, does the hard work”

And the cheater IS NOT a multiple offended cheater; I am talking about a 2 or more times of cheating in different years. *Then I would say your best chance of having a better life is to have hope in love.*

The reasons are:

1	After someone cheats you are never going to have `100% trust in anyone, nor should you. Looking for 100% trust is a pipedream

2	With a sincere repentant person you have the main ingredients for a good partner

3	You are never going to get anyone without some flaws, that person does not exist in real life only in dreams and movies.

4	Life is give and take, compromise, and settling for less than your dreams most of the time.

5* If the cheater shows with his actions for a long period of time that he is serious then hope in love is the best choice.*

6	You would probably want the same chance if you were the cheater or did something else that is so damaging to your relationship. Sooner or later you will do something that is very damaging to your relationship.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

> 1	After someone cheats you are never going to have `100% trust in anyone, nor should you. Looking for 100% trust is a pipedream


This is a false equivalency. As someone who is remarried, and was cheated on before (my H is also a betrayed spouse), it may be impossible for me to exclude the possibility of cheating (which I give odds at about 99.9%). Reconciling with a cheater? Well, since past behavior is the best predictor of future conduct, I think you're looking a far greater odds that they will reoffend. PLUS there is the whole issue that they already destroyed this relationship with their cheating. It's risk assessment and a cheater has already shown they're a bad risk.

This is like saying, hey, no car is 100% safe, so you can drive a Volvo station wagon or a Ford Pinto with bald tires and 200K miles -- and it's the same thing.



> 2	With a sincere repentant person you have the main ingredients for a good partner


No, you don't. My cheating ex, was really "sorry." Most serial cheaters are intermittently repentant. People are sorry and reoffend all the time. People promise to quit drinking, gambling, compulsively shopping, over eating, etc. The world is full of good intended people who do bad, self destructive things.



> 3	You are never going to get anyone without some flaws, that person does not exist in real life only in dreams and movies.


Ex-husband? His flaws were serial cheating, rage, exposing me to STDs, etc. My husband's flaws? A penchant for cabbage, making lists, polka music.

You can't reject someone for their flaws? Of course we should reject people for their flaws -- if those flaws do us grievous harm.



> 4	Life is give and take, compromise, and settling for less than your dreams most of the time.


Yes, be a grown up and have grown up expectations. That is not to say be a doormat and accept crap treatment. Know your worth. 



> 5	If the cheater shows with his actions for a long period of time that he is serious then hope in love is the best choice.


First you have to give them that "long period of time." Which is a RISK. A bad risk IMO, see item 1. They may be consistently wonderful (and there are no other issues, like a pregnancy, or a harassing affair partner, or ruined finances, or they screwed around in your bed, etc.), or you might waste more of your precious life on them. Why not divorce them and see if they stay sorry and do the work regardless of what YOU do? If they're serious, they can win you back. But you get to move on with your life and not twist in the wind waiting. 



> 6	You would probably want the same chance if you were the cheater or did something else that is so damaging to your relationship. Sooner or later you will do something that is very damaging to your relationship.


Seriously? Sooner or later you're going to screw around on your spouse? Gamble away the pension fund? Molest a cousin? Create a Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme? 

No, I'm pretty certain I know that I'm not going to betray my husband. Forget to pay the cable bill? Say something awkward to his mother? Get grouchy? Yes. Sleep with someone I'm not married to? No.

And if I did something so egregious to my husband that he felt the need to divorce me, I'd understand hey -- "life is give and take" -- and I'd take my lumps like a grown up. Actions have consequences.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

I would also add, "What kind of cheater you have"? Like they're going to TELL YOU?

How would you know? Cheaters lie and they lie artfully. Most only confess to what you've got them dead to rights on and volunteer nothing else.

It's very common to find out that the affair(s) is the tip of the iceberg. 

Look, I would hope for anyone that it's a one off, or you caught this crap early, but chances are that they're lying to you about What Kind of Cheater They Are, and are begging to convince you that they're the Good Kind, the Sorry Kind, and the Don't Divorce My Sorry Ass Kind.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Re: How to leave a cheater? Here is the Answer.... 
________________________________________
Quote:
1 After someone cheats you are never going to have `100% trust in anyone, nor should you. Looking for 100% trust is a pipedream 
*reply by Chumplady*
This is a false equivalency. As someone who is remarried, and was cheated on before (my H is also a betrayed spouse), *it may be impossible for me to exclude the possibility of cheating *(which I give odds at about 99.9%). Reconciling with a cheater? Well, since past behavior is the best predictor of future conduct, I think you're looking a far greater odds that they will reoffend. PLUS there is the whole issue that they already destroyed this relationship with their cheating. It's risk assessment and a cheater has already shown they're a bad risk.

This is like saying, hey, no car is 100% safe, so you can drive a Volvo station wagon or a Ford Pinto with bald tires and 200K miles -- and it's the same thing.
My statement is not a false equivalency. Your statement in bold above proves my point

Quote:
2 With a sincere repentant person you have the main ingredients for a good partner 
*Reply by Chumplady*
No, you don't. My cheating ex, was really "sorry." Most serial cheaters are intermittently repentant. People are sorry and reoffend all the time. People promise to quit drinking, gambling, compulsively shopping, over eating, etc. The world is full of good intended people who do bad, self destructive things.

*You do not understand the spiritual definition of a repentant person.* The spiritual definition of repentance involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible life, and CEASING the wrong doing and making restitution by your ACTIONS for the wrong. This is to be proven by ACTIONS over a long period of time. *In other words a real 180 degree change for a long period of time.*

Your definition of repentance is someone who cries and says they are “really sorry” and then reoffends. That means nothing and is not repentance even if they mean it at the time.

Quote:
[*B]3 You are never going to get anyone without some flaws, that person does not exist in real life only in dreams and movies.*[/B] 

*Reply by Chumlady*
Ex-husband? His flaws were serial cheating, rage, exposing me to STDs, etc. My husband's flaws? A penchant for cabbage, making lists, polka music.

You can't reject someone for their flaws? Of course we should reject people for their flaws -- if those flaws do us grievous harm.

We are in agreement on this.

Quote:
4 Life is give and take, compromise, and settling for less than your dreams most of the time. 
Yes, be a grown up and have grown up expectations. That is not to say be a doormat and accept crap treatment. Know your worth. 
*I never said be a doormat and accept crap. On those issues I am in agreement with you again.*


Quote:
5 If the cheater shows with his actions for a long period of time that he is serious then hope in love is the best choice. 
First you have to give them that "long period of time." Which is a RISK. A bad risk IMO, see item 1. They may be consistently wonderful (and there are no other issues, like a pregnancy, or a harassing affair partner, or ruined finances, or they screwed around in your bed, etc.), or you might waste more of your precious life on them. Why not divorce them and see if they stay sorry and do the work regardless of what YOU do? If they're serious, they can win you back. But you get to move on with your life and not twist in the wind waiting. 
*Calm down, I agree with you on this also*.

Quote:
6 You would probably want the same chance if you were the cheater or did something else that is so damaging to your relationship. Sooner or later you will do something that is very damaging to your relationship. 
Seriously? Sooner or later you're going to screw around on your spouse? Gamble away the pension fund? Molest a cousin? Create a Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme? 

No, I'm pretty certain I know that I'm not going to betray my husband. Forget to pay the cable bill? Say something awkward to his mother? Get grouchy? Yes. Sleep with someone I'm not married to? No.

And if I did something so egregious to my husband that he felt the need to divorce me, I'd understand hey -- "life is give and take" -- and I'd take my lumps like a grown up. Actions have consequences. 
My statement is preceded by a TRUE repentant person. Since you and I have a different definition of a repentant person your replies do not relate exactly to my statements. Did you read my previous posts. Here are some of my words reprinted below.


> “If the person immediately repents, stops hurting you, quits cheating, tells the truth, does the hard work”
> 
> And the cheater IS NOT a multiple offended cheater; I am talking about a 2 or more times of cheating in different years. Then I would say your best chance of having a better life is to have hope in love.
> 
> ...



Chumplady
I do not question that you will not .”…screw around on your spouse?, Gamble away the pension fund? Molest a cousin? Create a Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme”

When you have been married for 30+ years you take a real close look at your life and ask an honest person like your husband if you have ever done anything that has been very damaging to your relationship. Screwing around on your spouse, molesting a cousin, and creating a Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme are not the only ways to damage a relationship. If you are not a repeat offender and are truly repentant (my definition not yours) then I would encourage your husband to give love some hope also.

Your situation seems like you had a repeat offender that never really was repentant and had a lot more wrong than what I talked about in this post. My post was not directed at your situation but for a truly repentant, non-repeat-offender that has proven his change by a long period of time. 

Try not to see my posts through only your situation. *We do agree on a lot but we do have a different definition of repentant so that puts us in different perspectives.[*/COLOR]


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

Blunt, I agree with your last statement. But here's the thing with repentant. It's not enough. My XH was "repentant." He sobbed and cried and wrote operatic apologies to me. He went to therapy, alone, with me. He eventually even gave me a divorce settlement (under much duress). He did not stop cheating.

It's not enough to be sorry. The person has to show it -- over TIME. Many fall off the wagon, again and again. If not in cheating, then in attitude. Like dry drunks. They aren't cheaters, but they keep all the entitlement, poor me, thinking. 

The thing with "over time" is -- the betrayed party has to make an INVESTMENT. If you have 30 years in, yes, that is a different investment than a younger marriage. It's still an investment in a shaky commodity that is a cheater. 

It's okay to lay that burden down. To NOT invest. To say, hey, this is a deal breaker for me. So much advice traffics in the message of stick it out, and you're a quitter if you bail now, hey! they might improve! stay the course! 

I think reconciliation is a GIFT -- and that gift is lost on a lot of cheaters, who feel entitled to it. And codependent betrayed spouses who think they are obligated to give it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> The title should be "How to Kick your Cheater Out" though. Why should the BS be the one to leave???


Again, why should the BS be the one to leave????


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

Perhaps it would better titled "How to END" it. I don't think the BS should leave, if the option exists of throwing the cheater out and leaving their stuff in Hefty bags on the lawn for the raccoons. I much prefer that, actually.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I totally agree. I see SO many people who just assume that the BS will be the one to leave, and it shouldn't be that way. I think everything we can do to get BS's into the mindset that THEY aren't the ones to blame should be done.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> We do agree on a lot but we do have a different definition of repentant so that puts us in different perspectives.[/
> *Reply by Chumplady*
> Blunt, I agree with your last statement. But here's the thing with repentant. It's not enough. My XH was "repentant." He sobbed and cried and wrote operatic apologies to me. He went to therapy, alone, with me. He eventually even gave me a divorce settlement (under much duress). *He did not stop cheating*




Chumplady
*Your husband WAS NOT repentant*. The reason that I know he was not repentant is because of what you said. You said *“He did not stop cheating”* That is 100% proof that he was not repentant. He may have had a few of the first steps of repentance but the bottom line for real complete repentance is as I have said in my definition reprinted below. One important part of my definition below that your husband failed at was 
“CEASING the wrong doing and making restitution by your ACTIONS for the wrong.”

*Ceasing NOT for weeks or months but for years. Real repentance is a change of attitude and mindset that is backed up by actions for years.*

Chumplady, I am so glad that you left him as he was not repentant and would only tear you down



> "The spiritual definition of repentance involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible life, and CEASING the wrong doing and making restitution by your ACTIONS for the wrong. This is to be proven by ACTIONS over a long period of time. In other words a real 180 degree change for a long period of time."


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## Alyosha (Feb 27, 2012)

That was really excellent, Chumplady.

I especially liked:

Do not think “Oh they would never…” Oh, they would never ask for full custody. Oh, they would never hide money. Oh, they would never throw me out of the house. Yes they would. .... But do not ever for one second think that this person will treat you fairly because you shared a life together.

Many month later I am still shock at how 10 years of struggling together to build a life with 4 young children counted for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to my WW. I am also still in shock at how she would go out of her way to do cruel things to me and my family. What the hell did she have against me? She is the one who cheated.

Anyway....great advice. Thanks.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

I have to agree, that it's a good article



> Stay strong. You’re going to get wobbly. It’s entirely human. You will doubt that you’re doing the right thing sometimes. You’ll fear for your children. Stay the course. If your cheater is sorry, they will do the hard work and be sorry regardless of what you do. If a cheater tries to derail the divorce, it’s because they don’t want the consequences for themselves. That isn’t remorse. It’s self interest. When you feel weak, it’s good to look at that evidence again and let the anger fuel you forward. Focus on yourself. What kind of person do you want to share your life with? What are your values? Divorce from a cheater is terribly painful, but it’s also birthing pains to a new beginning. The pain is finite. Push past it. There’s a good life here waiting for you.


I really like this paragraph. I've lived it and made the mistake to allow my CW to get back in.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

This works as well 

Paul Simon - 50 ways to leave your lover 
Paul Simon - 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover + lyrics - YouTube


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

chumplady said:


> I would also add, "What kind of cheater you have"? Like they're going to TELL YOU?
> 
> How would you know? Cheaters lie and they lie artfully. Most only confess to what you've got them dead to rights on and volunteer nothing else.
> 
> ...


You are spot on. 

I have someone who is outing my STBEH anonymously. 

Apparently he has an enemy. Perhaps a spurned ex affair partner, perhaps a highly moralistic person who likes me and wants to help, perhaps an angry BS of an affair partner, perhaps another affair partner of the affair partner. 

Whoever it is, is providing true information with proof and photographs. 

If not for this anonymous information, I would have forgiven my STBEH and been none the wiser about his ongoing bad behaviors.

I truly feel sorry for some here who have reconciled, but no longer want to spy on their spouse. 

I have no doubt that at least 75 percent who decided to trust again are being made fools of.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

OMG Sara, how awful for you. It's bad enough to be betrayed, I'm not sure I could deal with all the audiovisual evidence too. 

FWIW, after I divorced my cheating ex -- I found out that he had a 20 year old CHILD with the long-term OW. She pawned the paternity off on her brother-in-law. How Jerry Springer is that? Some cheater doofus in New Jersey (her sister's husband) was paying CS for 18 years to a kid that wasn't his. Kid has his name and everything. Family reunions must be fun at the OW's. :scratch head:

All to say, you've got no idea what skeletons might be out there. My husband's ex-wife was a serial cheater. He found out, divorced her ASAP. Knew of two affairs. Her former business partners then told him of many more. My H is a sharp guy, a lawyer. He had no clue. It's more common than you think. Sadly. 

I'm just not that hopeful about most cheaters.


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