# Ball of issues...how to untangle and fix things?



## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

i'm posting this under infidelity but that's only the part of the problem. thx in advance for tolerating a long read:

about 8 years ago we (wife and young daughter) moved to a new town. bought too much house, huge tension, i screw up and wound up hooking up w/ a girl at work a few times. lots of email contact as well, a very shameful chapter in my life. didn't have sex but...bad enough, whatever. we moved away, i didn't have contact w/ girl for a few years but gradually resumed some email contact, and had lunch while on biz trip. nothing happened but wife found out about all this and was understandably crushed. no idea why i resumed contact, it was sort of like proving to myself that bad stuff was behind me now: "see, look, just casual friends, nothing to see here!" dumb but that's the only way i can explain it. this was over a year ago, all that stuff is over but obviously still fresh in wife's mind. 

we've just moved again now, back to my home town...and things have absolutely blown up. wife takes issue with everything my mom does. granted she can be annoying, but a lot of her hostility towards them is about things that have happened in the past. i know mom is desperate to make things better but my wife is just...done, tapped out, doesn't want or need contact with her, and now, anyone in my family. they are a 'bunch of selfish *******s.' they call me saying 'what can we do, we want her to be happy' but my wife has absolutely demonized them beyond repair and built a wall 50 feet high. its sad because they're there for her if she would open up but shes 'DONE TRYING' etc, you should see the anger in the texts etc. it makes me sad more than anything else. 

i thought growing up around their grandparents and aunt, people who care deeply about them, would be good for the kids, and i still think that. but this situation is completely broken.

wife has further resentment towards me because several years ago we chose to abort a baby. very difficult decision and it's clear she thinks it was me forcing the issue. i thought we had decided on it mutually, but if there's a difference of opinion there there's no real wrong or right. she blames me and i get that that is a HUGE source of resentment and anger.

so...infidelity, forced abortion, move she didn't want to make...these are all the sins piled up on my head. for years she stepped away from making big decisions and in the absence of that, i've apparently made all the wrong ones. i'm a concerned husband and father of two who is desperate to keep this family together. i love my wife but just can't seem to make her happy, i've offered to move, whatever, i don't care. 

what's hard is she feels like she's suddenly at a place where nothing is what she wants...the problem is, i've said that to her for years. she doesn't know what she wants for dinner, she knows what she doesn't want. doesn't know what house to buy, but knows which one sucks. etc. i've been desperate for her to actively chase her own happiness more, and now she's suddenly decided "you know, i think i will, and i'll start by tearing this family to pieces and run away from everything." 

i've screwed up plenty, was immature and probably a bad listener. but i've always cared deeply about her, am in therapy to learn how to make evident more of those feelings on the inside, make it through to the outside. but i just don't know what to do? what do you do when a person takes EVERY SINGLE THING people say or do, and use it against them, and refuse to see the good in anything? I bring flowers, try to talk, whatever, it's just 'you're doing that to fix your perfect image of a family, you don't really care.' it's like a punch in the stomach. i mean she is looking for every possible shred of evidence to support her thesis that i'm a bad person, family are bad people, town is horrible, move was terrible idea, etc. It's absolutely relentless and i just don't know how to even begin tackling it all. i'm normally a pretty upbeat person but god it's making me want to steer my car into a tree sometimes, it's just a constant oppressive drone of anger and negativity.

so...yeah. what can i do? like i said i'm in therapy, and desperately want to get back to couples therapy. flailing and miserable. she keeps saying 'you got what you want, your in your hometown + your family...'. the thing is, all of that was because i thought it would be good for them to have family around, her to have support, etc, but...god no. i don't want to be here without them, that wasn't the point. but she won't hear it. wont hear anything that doesn't support the idea that husband/family/town=horrible. 

just feel like edward scissorhands or something, try to hug someone and you just hurt them worse. it's just sad and lonely. have no idea the last time i felt she cared about me. and i get why she wouldn't, but it's tough.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Is she seeing a counselor for her?

It sounds a lot like she is still in the pit of despair from the affair. You seem to get this on some level, though you are blaming her for 'not being happy'. How did SHE deal with your affair? And what have you done to show remorse, show you own your actions, show you are committed to loving her? I will tell you, contacting the other woman again showed her you did none of these things for real. Now everything you did was fake and you have to overcome that again.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

thebadguy said:


> Is she seeing a counselor for her?
> 
> It sounds a lot like she is still in the pit of despair from the affair. You seem to get this on some level, though you are blaming her for 'not being happy'. How did SHE deal with your affair? And what have you done to show remorse, show you own your actions, show you are committed to loving her? I will tell you, contacting the other woman again showed her you did none of these things for real. Now everything you did was fake and you have to overcome that again.


you're exactly right, and it's created a huge lack of trust. god like i said the whole resumption of communication, it's like, wtf? why? i believe she started and i responded to...what, to be polite? what a disaster. imbecile, i wasn't even thinking about it, just became like a dumb habit or something...

anyway, as for my commitment to her now...it's total. i feel like silver lining, i've 'grown up' a ton and realized a lot about what it means not just to love someone, but do it in a way that they know it. but as far as remorse, other than never do anything like that again, and apologize, send her flowers, take her away on vacations...i know those are all 'gestures' but i'm kind of at a loss for how else to make it clear, emotionally?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I agree that the crux of this is your affair. You HURT your wife in a way that you don't really understand because you were not on the receiving end the way she has been.

It's common for a cheater to decide that the affair was a mistake and to 'move on' from it, but what is left behind is emotional wreckage.

Your wife has probably been passive in decision making not because she is chronically indecisive, but because she wants you to be happy. She thus lets you make decisions in order to see what you prefer & then goes along with that so that you can be content and satisfied. This doesn't mean that she herself doesn't have preferences and opinions.

She sounds like she is in primal scream mode. She has tried to have a marriage in which you pursued your happiness and you betrayed and hurt her. She has tried to carry on, but now she feels despair and rage. You are right to believe that seeing your AP again tipped a balance for your wife. She likely feels both incredulous and humiliated. And her pride has been very damaged, so she will lash out in defense of her own self-esteem.

To her, everything is about you. She has no reason to believe that you really love her. You are surrounded by supportive family and in her mind she stands alone as a solitary bulwark.

To me, the first, best thing you can do right now is to confess your infidelity to your entire family if you haven't already. This could serve to break the isolation that she feels. (She could also respond by feeling embarrassed and ashamed, but exposure is an important step in reconciliation and she should be counseled on this if her reaction is negative.)

Then I would get some counseling in which you learn how to act on your remorse & she learns how to channel and process her hurt, anger, and resentment.

Best of luck going forward. You have a mountain to climb because of your cheating. It is doable. There are posters and threads here that are testaments to that.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> I agree that the crux of this is your affair. You HURT your wife in a way that you don't really understand because you were not on the receiving end the way she has been.
> 
> It's common for a cheater to decide that the affair was a mistake and to 'move on' from it, but what is left behind is emotional wreckage.
> 
> ...


that is something i hadn't considered. pretty embarrassing but i'll do it in a heartbeat if it puts her on any sort of path to a better place.

do you think the rage directed at my family is partially just her anger with me? it's just that her fury is so...absolute, it's utterly irrational, these are people who will do whatever she asks, but instead, she waits for them to do something, and gets enraged that it wasn't the right thing. 

i didn't mention that my wife has also suffered from anxiety for many years, and i believe depression as well. she was raped by a 'boyfriend' when she was 18 and i believe may have been fondled when she was 3 or 4 by one of her older brothers' friends or something. 

i mention this because it's hard to separate out her natural tendencies towards depression/anxiety when in fact i am the cause of some of these problems.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

And how would you feel if you had discovered SHE had been unfaithful to you? NO EXCUSE for messing around on your spouse!


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

thummper said:


> And how would you feel if you had discovered SHE had been unfaithful to you? NO EXCUSE for messing around on your spouse!


not here to make excuses. i acted like an idiot. my point was she suffered from chronic anxiety, and possibly depression, since long before my infidelity, and i believe that underlying condition is certainly not helping things. but to blame things on that isn't correct either, it's just a very tough situation.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

wanttofixit said:


> i screw up and wound up hooking up w/ a girl at work a few times. lots of email contact as well, a very shameful chapter in my life. didn't have sex but...bad enough, whatever. we moved away, i didn't have contact w/ girl for a few years but gradually resumed some email contact, and had lunch while on biz trip. nothing happened but wife found out about all this and was understandably crushed. no idea why i resumed contact, it was sort of like proving to myself that bad stuff was behind me now: "see, look, just casual friends, nothing to see here!" dumb but that's the only way i can explain it. this was over a year ago, all that stuff is over but obviously still fresh in wife's mind.


 I call bull to your "see, look, just casual friends, nothing to see here!" statement. You resumed secret contact with your affair partner behind your wife's back because it gave you the affair rush again as the brain drugs went off in your head. Studies show that victims of affairs usually have a harder time dealing with the sneaking around and lying then they do the actual sex. In your most current case of resuming contact with your affair partner (AP), the injury to your wife for your sneaking around and lying is still fresh in her hread as a year is nothing when it comes to such betrayals. And if you really expect your wife to 100% believe that you did not have sex with your AP when you saw your AP for lunch when you were out of town on a business trip, you are just fooling yourself. Heck, I know that I do not believe you. 

If your wife were the one that was posting on this thread instead of you, most on this board be advising her not to trust a word that you said. In fact, many would be telling her to file for divorce, so that she could have a chance at finding a man that actually knows what it means to be faithful to her. Sorry but there are not a "Ball of issues", there is just one issue, you being an unremorseful cheater, that still does not really get it. In reading your posts, it is clear that even now you do not understand or take responsibility for the full impact of your actions. To be clear, the issue is not that your wife is unreasonably unforgiving. The real issue is that you have not acted worthy of being forgiven, as you are not even now fully and 100% remorseful. I do not say this to hurt you, but in an effort to get you to take your head out of the fog so that you can start to address the real issues of your marriage.

Go to your wife right now and tell her that you still cannot believe what you have done to hurt her and that you take full responsibly to try to fix the marriage. Tell her that you do not expect her to have forgiven you, and that you will not put a timeline on her forgiving you as she needs to do this at her own pace. Then ask her to help you be the husband that she deserves by telling you what you can do to start in that direction. Tell her that you do not expect her to know everything that she wants of you right now, but you would like her to start with something now and to share more of her thoughts on the subject as she thinks of more going forward. Tell her that at least once per week you will sit with her to hear her thoughts, even if it means that she yells her well deserved anger at you. Again remind her that you know that it will take time, and that you are willing to do what it takes for however long that it takes.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

People of all emotional makeups suffer dramatically when the person they love is unfaithful. It is a profound betrayal. Anxiety and depression can color the reaction, but the fundamental reaction of anguish, pain, incredulity, rage, etc. is there, no matter the psychological backdrop.

Read some more of the threads here. Try to absorb the descriptions of the pain that the betrayed spouses feel. Try to put yourself in your wife's place. Try to understand the sense of bewilderment, anger, crushing hurt.

It sounds to me like your wife feels trapped in your marriage. She probably still loves you, but you have hurt her badly. She sees you carrying on your life with no real consequences. You have your family. They are complicit in your security, even if they are unwittingly so. To her, they are part of the problem, part of the trap she is caught in. So she rages because she doesn't have the will to free herself. She is stuck, caught by her emotions and the logistics of the marriage.

My sense is that she needs to regain a sense of control of her own life in order to begin to look at you and your family through a more reasoned lens. You can help her do that by acting on your remorse. There are books/articles that will help guide you here, but here is a relatively recent thread that offers the experience of posters on this site:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/129906-examples-truely-remorseful-spouse.html


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

wanttofixit said:


> do you think the rage directed at my family is partially just her anger with me? it's just that her fury is so...absolute, it's utterly irrational, these are people who will do whatever she asks, but instead, she waits for them to do something, and gets enraged that it wasn't the right thing.


Keep your eyes on the prize here. You have broken your wife's heart. She tried to let time heal her and then you broke it again.

Your family doesn't know this. They probably think you are a good person saddled with an unhappy, shrewish wife. Imagine how that enrages her as she deals with her heartbreak.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm confused, you "hooked up" with the co-worker, but did not have sex? Did your wife know about your emotional affair with the co-worker before you stopped contacting her for a few years? How did your wife discover the e-mails? What was in the emails? 

What does your counselor say about the issue? What have you done to own your dysfunctional behavior? What support does your wife have in terms of friends, family, and counselors? You made it sound as if your wife and your mom are always at odd, does your mom live with you?

From the outside looking in, it looks like you've not done anything of consequence to actually own what you did, and are underestimating the devastating impact of affairs on spouses. How did you two decide on reconciliation? Was divorce ever on the table? 

Your wife can no longer trust the words that come out of your mouth, so all you can do is act to help her understand that you are truly and deeply sorry for betraying her trust and are willing to do anything and everything to help her heal from the damage you caused.

I dont understand how you could be in counseling, talking about this issue, and have not yet been asked to discuss your affair with family. Is this something you two "decided" to keep secret? If on top of dealing with this issue, your wife had the added burden of keeping it quiet, her behavior is completely understandable.

I'll wait for you to post more details before giving advice.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> People of all emotional makeups suffer dramatically when the person they love is unfaithful. It is a profound betrayal. Anxiety and depression can color the reaction, but the fundamental reaction of anguish, pain, incredulity, rage, etc. is there, no matter the psychological backdrop.
> 
> Read some more of the threads here. Try to absorb the descriptions of the pain that the betrayed spouses feel. Try to put yourself in your wife's place. Try to understand the sense of bewilderment, anger, crushing hurt.
> 
> ...


appreciate that. you've described many of the things she's said as well. i'm not a very emotive person by nature and i'm learning that it can come across like i'm some sort of robot. it's the opposite, i'm intensely aware of other people's feelings, but i am NOT a pro at being supportive, i think i just deal with anything and everything, and expect everyone else to do the same...lots to work on.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

TRy said:


> I call bull to your "see, look, just casual friends, nothing to see here!" statement. You resumed secret contact with your affair partner behind your wife's back because it gave you the affair rush again as the brain drugs went off in your head. Studies show that victims of affairs usually have a harder time dealing with the sneaking around and lying then they do the actual sex. In your most current case of resuming contact with your affair partner (AP), the injury to your wife for your sneaking around and lying is still fresh in her hread as a year is nothing when it comes to such betrayals. And if you really expect your wife to 100% believe that you did not have sex with your AP when you saw your AP for lunch when you were out of town on a business trip, you are just fooling yourself. Heck, I know that I do not believe you.
> 
> Go to your wife right now and tell her that you still cannot believe what you have done to hurt her and that you take full responsibly to try to fix the marriage. Tell her that you do not expect her to have forgiven you, and that you will not put a timeline on her forgiving you as she needs to do this at her own pace. Then ask her to help you be the husband that she deserves by telling you what you can do to start in that direction. Tell her that you do not expect her to know everything that she wants of you right now, but you would like her to start with something now and to share more of her thoughts on the subject as she thinks of more going forward. Tell her that at least once per week you will sit with her to hear her thoughts, even if it means that she yells her well deserved anger at you. Again remind her that you know that it will take time, and that you are willing to do what it takes for however long that it takes.


i hear what you're saying but i honestly wasn't getting a 'thrill', or at least, that's not how it felt. maybe having lunch was a little like standing on the edge of a cliff and looking down, but at the end of the day i didn't jump and in my mind if felt like closure on an ugly chapter. i'm sure this is a bewildering and insufficient answer on some level, but that's the place it occupies in my mind.

to your closing paragraph, i've said those things, done those things, believe me. it's like the more i've done to fix the situation, the worse it's gotten. and her target of anger expands every day...my sister was one of the good guys, but as of recently, i believe she's on the hit list as well. it's just devouring everything around her. 

and i'm going to keep saying those things, because under all this she's the one i want to be with. the few moments where we're actually getting along, ugh, it's so hard when it goes back to garbage.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

I agree that your wife makes no choices because she wants to see you CHOOSE HER. But...you chose your home town, your family. You chose to contact the OW again. Do you see how this is not choosing her? Where is her family? Where are her friends? I'm not telling you to move your family, because she probably doesn't want that at this moment either, but think about her. What does she want? You married her. At one point you knew her well enough to answer that question.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

wanttofixit said:


> i hear what you're saying but i honestly wasn't getting a 'thrill', or at least, that's not how it felt. maybe having lunch was a little like standing on the edge of a cliff and looking down, but at the end of the day i didn't jump and in my mind if felt like closure on an ugly chapter. i'm sure this is a bewildering and insufficient answer on some level, but that's the place it occupies in my mind.


If your wife was the one here, there would have been 10 people write already to say "DON'T FOOL YOURSELF, THEY HAD SEX".

But here's the thing, no matter how much you castigate yourself, if you are not being HONEST, you will never get anywhere. 

I'm not just talking about lunch. Your story of no intercourse is umm...almost impossible.

Start by being honest with yourself and then be honest with your wife too. It is another D-Day for her but the merry-go-round will never stop until it is all out there.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I agree that the crux of this is your affair. You HURT your wife in a way that you don't really understand because you were not on the receiving end the way she has been.
> 
> It's common for a cheater to decide that the affair was a mistake and to 'move on' from it, but what is left behind is emotional wreckage.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking something else is going on here. As bad as OP sins were, the major sins were 8 years ago. He screwed up a year ago, that's true, it was breaking contact.

Still, my gut tells me here unhappiness lies within, not without.
Op sins surely did not help, but I think to attribute the whole unhappiness thing to his infidelity thing is not quite right.

OP, let me ask you; Your wife's recent traits and unhappiness; how far back do they go? Did they all start after your infidelity, or were there issues before that?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

One thing though that I definitely agree with alt Dame though is DO spill the beans to your family. they need to know.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

wanttofixit said:


> i hear what you're saying but i honestly wasn't getting a 'thrill', or at least, that's not how it felt. maybe having lunch was a little like standing on the edge of a cliff and looking down, but at the end of the day i didn't jump and in my mind if felt like closure on an ugly chapter. i'm sure this is a bewildering and insufficient answer on some level, but that's the place it occupies in my mind.


 Many of us here call this minimizing.



> to your closing paragraph, i've said those things, done those things, believe me. it's like the more i've done to fix the situation, the worse it's gotten. and her target of anger expands every day...my sister was one of the good guys, but as of recently, i believe she's on the hit list as well. it's just devouring everything around her.


To me, you didn't fix anything, you just put on an act. Then you were busted again, which makes her believe you are completely untrustworthy. 


> and i'm going to keep saying those things, because under all this she's the one i want to be with. the few moments where we're actually getting along, ugh, it's so hard when it goes back to garbage.


For you it is going back into the garbage. For her, it never got back out. You REALLY need to look at your fault in this bad marriage.



> Still, my gut tells me here unhappiness lies within, not without.
> Op sins surely did not help, but I think to attribute the whole unhappiness thing to his infidelity thing is not quite right.


 Yeah, I am going to disagree. IMO, she never got over the affair and that happens. We have people who waited and regretted reconciliation 20 years after the fact.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

thebadguy said:


> If your wife was the one here, there would have been 10 people write already to say "DON'T FOOL YOURSELF, THEY HAD SEX".
> 
> But here's the thing, no matter how much you castigate yourself, if you are not being HONEST, you will never get anywhere.
> 
> ...


We weren't together alone more than maybe three, four times? Once we made out on a couch. Made out in my office once or twice real quick. Worst was when she came to house while wife was out of town. You want details? There was oral sex but no intercourse. This was not some long drawn out physical affair, the problem was that it took me emotionally away from my family while we were in the middle of having our second child. That's the shameful/disgusting part, probably worse than if I had just had sex with some random person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> I'm thinking something else is going on here. As bad as OP sins were, the major sins were 8 years ago. He screwed up a year ago, that's true, it was breaking contact.
> 
> Still, my gut tells me here unhappiness lies within, not without.
> Op sins surely did not help, but I think to attribute the whole unhappiness thing to his infidelity thing is not quite right.
> ...


She has battled anxiety and depression for years. Her father told me he thinks she has anger issues. It goes up and down but it's always there. The worst is that it makes her happiness very fragile, she will fly into a rage about something and it's like she can't stop bringing it up...but if she's Ina good mood, god forbid a taxi cut her off or something, and suddenly it's like, well, see, life sucks. I try to tell her 'don't worry about it' but then that comes off as being unsupportive and not on her team.

So then, of course, I do what I did. Didn't help very much.

She's told me that a boyfriend forced himself on her when she was 18, and that when she was 3 or 4 her brothers friend/s might have fondled her or something. Hasn't come up often. I'm not a professional but I think these issues might have something to do with it, and to my knowledge she's never worked through those specific issues with a professional. Even if I'm out of the picture forever tomorrow, I really feel she should.

Not trying to divert attention from my mistakes, but it can be difficult to deal with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Paladin said:


> I'm confused, you "hooked up" with the co-worker, but did not have sex? Did your wife know about your emotional affair with the co-worker before you stopped contacting her for a few years? How did your wife discover the e-mails? What was in the emails?
> 
> What does your counselor say about the issue? What have you done to own your dysfunctional behavior? What support does your wife have in terms of friends, family, and counselors? You made it sound as if your wife and your mom are always at odd, does your mom live with you?
> 
> ...


Maybe you missed this on page 1, reply if you can please.


edit: ohhh how did I miss this?



wanttofixit said:


> about 8 years ago we (wife and young daughter) moved to a new town. bought too much house, huge tension, i screw up and wound up hooking up w/ a girl at work a few times. lots of email contact as well, a very shameful chapter in my life. *didn't have sex* but...bad enough, whatever.





wanttofixit said:


> We weren't together alone more than maybe three, four times? Once we made out on a couch. Made out in my office once or twice real quick. Worst was when she came to house while wife was out of town. You want details? *There was oral sex but no intercourse*. *This was not some long drawn out physical affair*, the problem was that it took me emotionally away from my family while we were in the middle of having our second child. That's the shameful/disgusting part, probably worse than if I had just had sex with some random person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This was not funny when Mr. Clinton said it, and it is even less funny coming from you. Your wife is certainly not laughing. I sincerely wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but, its becoming pretty clear that what others have pointed out is absolutely correct. Your wife will never heal because you have done nothing but rug sweep, minimize, contain, deflect, and avoided taking any actual responsibility for what happened and why. 

You want to know why your wife is angry? She is still married to a compartmentalizing manipulative narcissist who will go so far out of his way to appear like he is doing the right thing that he will create an account on TAM and post on CWI seeking advice. 

You want to know why she is mad at your parents? One of the hardest things for me to deal with during the early and chaotic months after my wife confessed her A was the idea that her parents, who I am very close to, condoned her behavior because I was under the mistaken impression that they were going to let the OM come over to their house for dinner. I later found out that I had simply misunderstood what was said, and her parents never actually approved of what she was doing and how much it was hurting me. I was so mad I was ready to spit nails. All I could think was that the man who's blessing I sought before marrying his daughter, and his wife, a woman who made Christmas special for me, thought I wasnt worth defending.

So how do you think she feels when your parents still treat you like youve done nothing wrong?

Also, for the love of decency, stop looking for ways to blame your wife for what you did. Whatever her past abuse issues were, and whatever baggage she still needs to sort out from that time, has nothing to do with her feelings right now. So please *be a man* and not just a guy acting like a man. Get everything out on the table, everything, if you think you are doing her a favor by sparing her the detail you are wrong. Every time something new comes up it will be D-Day all over again for her. If you lied about the sex (and 10 to 1 says you did/are) just stop lying, come clean, write out a detailed timeline of everything that happened, without leaving anything out or lying, give her a copy, and a copy to the relevant family members to the situation.

I cant stress this enough, if you leave something out, and she finds out later, you are done.

If you cant actually do what I'm talking about here (being a man and owning your mess) please let the woman go and find peace with someone who will love her without manipulating everything in her world to fit his selfish narrow outlook. File for D, and dont be a **** during separation.


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## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

wanttofixit said:


> We weren't together alone more than maybe three, four times? Once we made out on a couch. Made out in my office once or twice real quick. Worst was when she came to house while wife was out of town. You want details? There was oral sex but no intercourse. This was not some long drawn out physical affair, the problem was that it took me emotionally away from my family while we were in the middle of having our second child. That's the shameful/disgusting part, probably worse than if I had just had sex with some random person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BINGO! 

This wasn't what you keep claiming, this was a physical affair. YOU are minimizing, blame-shifting, gas-lighting ... really all of the usually bullshyt that cheaters do to try to justify. Then you cheated again when you started contact with the AP after 8 years. Your wife has no idea and you have given her NO WAY to completely believe that you had no other contact within that 8 years. 

You move your family to be around your family (who conveniently don't know about your affair) so that they could convince you that the problem is your wife and not you. YOU are the problem, not your wife. 

Your wife doesn't trust you or your uninformed family. Why should she? Your family thinks she's the problem because that's what you wanted them to think. You got your way, How's that working for ya?

You might have said the right things, but you haven't done the heavy lifting to heal this (contact with your AFFAIR PARTNER proved this to your wife). Your wife feels that and she'll never heal unless you open your eyes, quit minimizing and justifying, then DO what it takes to heal this.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You just minimized a sex act.

So let's summarize:
You cheat.
You lie to your wife.
You minimize the level of contact.
You do not end contact.
You get caught.
You keep your family.

She is betrayed.
She has to deal with reconciliation.
She has to deal with trust issues.
She has to deal with a liar.
She has to deal with triggers.
She has to deal with an abortion.
She has to move.
She has her trust broken again.
She has to deal with the family PUSHING her to fix things without the entire story.

Just so you know, she had the surgery not you. So, the abortion will NEVER be the same for her as you. Personally, I'm not surprised she feels you forced her into an abortion. I'll say it again, you need to address some serious issues with your thinking.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

wanttofixit said:


> ...There was oral sex but no intercourse.


I think we all knew this, didn't we?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

How do some women deal with the guilt of having an abortion? They pretend that it was their evil husband who forced them to have it.

Now whilst this helps -somewhat- with the guilt, it builds up unfair resentment against the husband.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

wanttofixit said:


> We weren't together alone more than maybe three, four times? Once we made out on a couch. Made out in my office once or twice real quick. Worst was when she came to house while wife was out of town. You want details? There was oral sex but no intercourse. This was not some long drawn out physical affair, the problem was that it took me emotionally away from my family while we were in the middle of having our second child. That's the shameful/disgusting part, probably worse than if I had just had sex with some random person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah. You are Clintoning. Which is very, very bad.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> evil husband
> unfair resentment against the husband.


Yes and sometimes that resentment is well deserved and accurate.


alte Dame said:


> I think we all knew this, didn't we?


Well, "hooked up" and its many derivatives ALWAYS meant interoursse in my "hood." I still think it is more.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> BINGO!
> 
> This wasn't what you keep claiming, this was a physical affair. YOU are minimizing, blame-shifting, gas-lighting ... really all of the usually bullshyt that cheaters do to try to justify. Then you cheated again when you started contact with the AP after 8 years. Your wife has no idea and you have given her NO WAY to completely believe that you had no other contact within that 8 years.
> 
> ...



it's pretty clear i'm the problem. and i wasn't trying to 'minimize' the affair. the affair was tragic, i hurt a good wife who would never have cheated on me, and set in motion a series of events that may very well ruin a family. i was simply trying to be accurate with the facts...there was no sexual intercourse. i did not then go on to say, 'so no big deal.' just describing what happened.

i'm also not looking for my family to convince me she's the problem. i'm the problem. i moved because we've had 2 kids and no family support for years and i thought growing up around loving grandparents and aunts/uncles might, on balance, not be a bad idea for them. plus built-in babysitting support for her, etc. did i also do it for myself? certainly. but your convenient simplification of the issues here doesn't help.

i'm learning that the gap between the person i felt myself to be, and the person i've been to the outside world, or at least to my wife, might be a big one. i have been very selfish, and have been controlling emotionally with my wife in ways i didn't even realize. it's really shaken me because i look back on things, and a lot of what i thought was 'doing fine' was in fact anything but. and it wouldn't have been hard to do things differently.

things are not great at the moment. she doesn't really like me, and i can understand why. i'm doing everything i can, appreciate the suggestions i've received here.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

Paladin said:


> Maybe you missed this on page 1, reply if you can please.
> 
> 
> edit: ohhh how did I miss this?
> ...


compartmentalizing manipulative narcissist...there is probably some truth there, as discouraging and puzzling as it is to find that out. i want to be a good person, a good husband. if this is the truth about who i am, i have to tell you, it doesn't...feel like you might think it would. i don't walk around harboring bad thoughts. i don't operate out of a place of spite or negativity. with at least one very big exception, i treat the people around me well. i have two wonderful kids. but i can tell you it's very strange when you start to find out that, oh, you know that thing you do, you know...being yourself? yeah, that's all wrong. 

i have a lot to figure out, and a lot to make up for. as for the details of the affair, it's unfortunate that the truth is unusual, maybe, for this sort of thing, but it is what it is. and isn't it bad enough?


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> How do some women deal with the guilt of having an abortion? They pretend that it was their evil husband who forced them to gave it.
> 
> Now whilst this helps -somewhat- with the guilt, it builds up unfair resentment against the husband.


i don't know if this is true or not, but i really don't have the energy to try an deflect the blame about this right now. to be honest i think often about how it might be great if we had another child right now. it was a bad decision made in a moment of panic, and it probably was more mine than hers. i didn't force it but you know, if it was my idea first, at the end of the day, i can't really step around that fact.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

wanttofixit said:


> it's pretty clear i'm the problem. and i wasn't trying to 'minimize' the affair. the affair was tragic, i hurt a good wife who would never have cheated on me, and set in motion a series of events that may very well ruin a family. i was simply trying to be accurate with the facts...there was no sexual intercourse. i did not then go on to say, 'so no big deal.' just describing what happened.
> 
> i'm also not looking for my family to convince me she's the problem. i'm the problem. i moved because we've had 2 kids and no family support for years and i thought growing up around loving grandparents and aunts/uncles might, on balance, not be a bad idea for them. plus built-in babysitting support for her, etc.


Yes, but did you consult your wife? 
Did you actually sit down, have a family discussion and mutually make the decision? Or, like many of your posts sound, did you giver her an ultimatum "this is for the best because I know" manipulation "put my foot down" type of "mutual decision."


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

From what you've written, my impression is that you underplay the effect of your betrayal on your W.

You had sex with your OW in your home while your BW was pregnant with your child. You say that the bad thing about this is that it took you away from your family emotionally.

Actually, for the vast majority of us, the worst thing about it is that it is a massive betrayal of love, commitment, and intimacy. Doing this while your BW is pregnant is egregious.

Good people do bad things. You seem to be just wrapping your head around a self-image that isn't particularly positive. You don't sound like a bad person, but you surely sound like a selfish one.

I feel tremendous compassion for your BW. Tremendous. I very much think she feels heartbroken and trapped. I doubt that she believes that you ever stopped your A. I doubt that she believes that she has the whole truth. She may not believe that your family doesn't know; it's possible that she thinks they are somehow complicit and she feels alone and humiliated.

You've been unkind to her. You haven't really loved her. If you want to start now, you must be completely honest with everyone about everything.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, but did you consult your wife?
> Did you actually sit down, have a family discussion and mutually make the decision? Or, like many of your posts sound, did you giver her an ultimatum "this is for the best because I know" manipulation "put my foot down" type of "mutual decision."


chalk it up to another selfish decision. she was not opposed to the move, geography-wise. we discussed towns all around the area, and i wasn't opposed to it. for me obviously the home town made the most sense...if we wanted to go out for an evening w/o kids, can't really lean on grandma/grandpa if we're an hour away? 

but anyway when it became real she finally said 'you know you'll never be happy if you don't just move home...'. and of course i took that and ran with it...the thing is, it wasn't like she had some strong preference of some other place. so when one person desperately wants something, and the other just shrugs their shoulders, what's the right call?

you know, for almost a decade, we lived in a city i didn't want to be in, worked a job that was killing me, paying for a private school we could barely afford. they were happy, i was MISERABLE. for years. now she says 'i had no idea you were that miserable,' but i don't know what other conclusion she could have drawn from years of me coming home, putting my head in my hands and saying i have to get out of there. but my industry is fickle and it was a rock-solid job, i had a family to support, so i put my head down, did what i had to do and really never brought it up beyond the occasional exasperated sigh.

once a year maybe we'd visit my home town, and i'd drive around and it would kill me how much i missed it, and how badly i would like to move back. and then recently, finally, i got a great job offer, and finally, the opportunity to live in the place i've wanted to get back to for probably 15 years, reconnect with a family i barely ever see anymore, etc. and build a life for my family in a place many people would kill to live. So...yeah, i pushed for this move, this town, big time. no question...and here i am.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I've seen this countless times in my own sphere. The trailing spouse problem.

Your BW 'shrugged' because she knew how much you wanted to go home ('desperately,' you say). This doesn't mean that she really, in her heart of hearts, wanted to do it. It only means that she wanted you to be happy.

And then you get there and you are embraced by your family, friends, and all of your memories. This estranges her. She is the outsider here while you reconnect and feel all warm and great.

If you add this on top of your A, she feels very estranged.

In my own experience, some spouses in this situation withdraw and become distant and self-isolating. Some become very angry and bitter as they attempt to maintain their own self-respect.

I think that if you want your family to survive intact, you have to address the estrangement. This is not only your A, which is paramount, but also her resentment regarding your move.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> From what you've written, my impression is that you underplay the effect of your betrayal on your W.
> 
> You had sex with your OW in your home while your BW was pregnant with your child. You say that the bad thing about this is that it took you away from your family emotionally.
> 
> ...


in a quiet, insidious way, i really have been a terrible husband. it's strange how under the veneer of your own understanding of yourself there can be truth of an ENTIRELY different color and complexion. 

what's worst of all is the fact my wife essentially just...doesn't like me anymore. she's past the anger, really. everybody's arguing in here over whether or not there was 'sex' and the thing is, she doesn't even care anymore. and now that i get it, it could very well be too late. it's a real tragedy because as weird as this sounds, i would desperately love the opportunity to introduce the gradually improving and eventually new me, to the old her, and start all over again. it's like, i see it—and it's not that tough a fix, honestly. that selfish impulse, i guess everyone has it but maybe for me i've given it the driver's seat and it's led to all sorts of twisted decision making, rationalizing etc.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> I've seen this countless times in my own sphere. The trailing spouse problem.
> 
> Your BW 'shrugged' because she knew how much you wanted to go home ('desperately,' you say). This doesn't mean that she really, in her heart of hearts, wanted to do it. It only means that she wanted you to be happy.
> 
> ...


and that is exactly what is happening. but here's the thing--these friends, family, etc--they are more than willing, enthusiastic, even, to embrace her and make her a part of everything. it's all right in front of her, but because it wasn't her first choice, she's choosing to be utterly resistant to finding anything positive in any of it? if it's because of my mistakes, then that makes sense. but otherwise...why? why not make the best of a situation that could be a huge positive for you? especially when you never offered a strong opinion on what exactly your first preference might have been?

i bring this up only because this is a theme with my wife that has been going on since the day we met: she doesn't know what she wants, what she'd like, what would make her happy, but is quite clear on what she doesn't want, what sucks, what irritates her. when it comes to what restaurant to eat in, what house to buy, what name to choose for the children: "i don't know, whatever, you choose..." and then i do...and then it's the wrong choice. often, it's not a decision i even cared to make or had any preference one way or the other.

i just don't know how not to step into that bear trap, i'm tired of and frankly have enough bad decisions of my own choosing to cope with.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If we get away from your A for a minute, I would suggest that you do a little research on ex-patriate couples. When one person in a couple drives a move to a different place/culture, it can trigger a very negative mindset in the spouse who felt it wasn't his/her first choice. This bleeds over into all of the people in the new environment who are native to the place. It's an issue of control. The trailing spouse didn't make the decision, only acquiesced.

In these cases, the negativity typically softens with time as the new place becomes home. The happy spouse will often just decide that the unhappy spouse is congenitally unhappy, but - and please note this - this is very, very rarely true. The negativity is situational rather than organic.

This means that you could indeed fix things for you and your BW. She needs to feel that the decisions that affect both of you are actually her decisions, too. You say that she avoids being assertive in this regard. Again, many women don't want to stand in the way of their spouses' happiness, so they back away from being assertive. 

You could help her feel more in control of her own life if you do a few things. For example:

- Talk to your BW and tell her that you want to come clean with your family about your betrayal of her. Tell her that you have been unfair to her in this regard and think she is owed the respect of the truth, out in the open.

- Suggest to her that the two of you seek MC so that you can learn how to deal constructively with the fallout of your A.

- Tell her that from now on, you want to be a partnership in everything, that you respect her opinions and desires, and that your decisions should be mutual. Encourage her to start making decisions by planning nights out for the two of you, for instance.

- To my mind, almost most important is to start really looking at your BW with true empathy. Try hard to imagine how she feels, how her heart has been damaged, how her heartbreak plays a role in her bitterness.

If you start to really love her in this way, perhaps she can start to believe that the two of you really are a united front. Remember that you damaged her mending feelings again when you secretly reconnected with your OW. The reconciliation clock was reset at that point, in my opinion.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> If we get away from your A for a minute, I would suggest that you do a little research on ex-patriate couples. When one person in a couple drives a move to a different place/culture, it can trigger a very negative mindset in the spouse who felt it wasn't his/her first choice. This bleeds over into all of the people in the new environment who are native to the place. It's an issue of control. The trailing spouse didn't make the decision, only acquiesced.
> 
> In these cases, the negativity typically softens with time as the new place becomes home. The happy spouse will often just decide that the unhappy spouse is congenitally unhappy, but - and please note this - this is very, very rarely true. The negativity is situational rather than organic.
> 
> ...


the points you've just laid out, they are almost exactly what i've done over the last few days. telling family is next, i'm actually looking forward to it, because i'm sure they think she's just a headcase at this point and they should know this is...more complicated than they think. 

i want this to be a partnership and honestly i want someone to take the decision-making authority away from me for a while, it does nothing but come back to haunt me it seems. but it's true, i don't want to move, but that is mostly because i think it would be unbelievably traumatic to rip the kids out of a place they seem to be enjoying very much. my son especially, daughter is slower to make friends, but overall they are settling in and blowing that up terrifies me. 

what i really want is to get to know my wife again, but from a more open and receptive place on my end. it could be that i never really knew her because i was so worried she wasn't being the person i thought she needed to be, to be happy?

the issue is that at right this moment, she's basically said she doesn't like me, doesn't want to be alone with me, etc. And i guess that's a valid place to be in after all this.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It may be a cliche', but I think it is true - you broke it & now you have to try to fix it. She has good reason not to like you. All of this has probably also made her a person that she herself doesn't particularly like. All the more reason to resent you.

So, do your best to change how you react to and treat her. Try to understand that she is defending herself emotionally. She feels betrayed and your family is in the offending camp.

Reach hard to feel the empathy. It's my personal experience that once this happens, it can change everything for the better.

And remember that Rome wasn't built in a day. It took years to develop. Your changing for a few days will not fix this. You have to keep slogging, even if she doesn't seem to like you. If you really love her & she still has love for you, she could come around. I think that it's important that you stop making decisions that you say are good for her even though they are transparently exactly what you want, so a moratorium on your big decision making for your family may not be a bad thing.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Oh, and when you tell your family, DO NOT minimize. 

Tell them that in no uncertain terms you had an affair when your BW was pregnant and that you didn't end it there. You met up secretly with the OW years later.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

wanttofixit said:


> compartmentalizing manipulative narcissist...there is probably some truth there, as discouraging and puzzling as it is to find that out. i want to be a good person, a good husband. if this is the truth about who i am, i have to tell you, it doesn't...feel like you might think it would. i don't walk around harboring bad thoughts. i don't operate out of a place of spite or negativity. with at least one very big exception, i treat the people around me well. i have two wonderful kids. but i can tell you it's very strange when you start to find out that, oh, you know that thing you do, you know...being yourself? yeah, that's all wrong.
> 
> i have a lot to figure out, and a lot to make up for. as for the details of the affair, it's unfortunate that the truth is unusual, maybe, for this sort of thing, but it is what it is. and isn't it bad enough?


The way you describe it feeling, is exactly the way its supposed to feel. The fact that you are able to do some kind of self reflection about this issue signals that if you do in fact suffer from a personality disorder, and that the self reflection youve made in your comments is not merely decoration to maintain this particular "compartment" of your life, you will still be able to address the issues directly in counseling and have a significant chance at improving.

If you are living a willful life without lying to yourself or those around you, and you are happy with the results, why call it "all wrong?" If the case is something else, you can and should fix it to make it better.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

Paladin said:


> The way you describe it feeling, is exactly the way its supposed to feel. The fact that you are able to do some kind of self reflection about this issue signals that if you do in fact suffer from a personality disorder, and that the self reflection youve made in your comments is not merely decoration to maintain this particular "compartment" of your life, you will still be able to address the issues directly in counseling and have a significant chance at improving.
> 
> If you are living a willful life without lying to yourself or those around you, and you are happy with the results, why call it "all wrong?" If the case is something else, you can and should fix it to make it better.


i'm always wary of tossing labels around, particularly with regards to as complicated a sum total as a 'personality,' but if i had to pick, i do think i would fall under the introvert banner. 'compartmentalization' is i think part of my nature; it's a 'strategy,' maybe not consciously chosen as a child, to maintain particular focus and to navigate the variety of experiences life throws at you. but it's clear it can lead to a particular type of bad behavior, this ability, inclination, whatever you want to call it, to lock certain things in certain boxes. it also, i think, requires a lot of mental energy redirected back towards oneself...at which point we've come back to the topic of introversion, but now as a cycle that can feed on itself and maybe grow more pronounced as more things require more and more mental real estate to be partitioned and maintained.

i can tell you i'm enjoying the idea of therapy, because although to some degree this is probably who i am, the idea of breaking down a few walls is an appealing idea.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Honestly I'd recommend divorce, for her sake at least. But you both sound like you need counseling. IC if not marriage counseling.



wanttofixit said:


> in a quiet, insidious way, i really have been a terrible husband.


No, it's actually pretty obvious.


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## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

wanttofixit said:


> it's pretty clear i'm the problem. and i wasn't trying to 'minimize' the affair. the affair was tragic, i hurt a good wife who would never have cheated on me, and set in motion a series of events that may very well ruin a family. i was simply trying to be accurate with the facts...there was no sexual intercourse. i did not then go on to say, 'so no big deal.' just describing what happened.
> 
> i'm also not looking for my family to convince me she's the problem. i'm the problem. i moved because we've had 2 kids and no family support for years and i thought growing up around loving grandparents and aunts/uncles might, on balance, not be a bad idea for them. plus built-in babysitting support for her, etc. did i also do it for myself? certainly. but your convenient simplification of the issues here doesn't help.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I was a bit "terse" in my post. I apologize. It just seemed to me like you were following the script of minimizing we've seen here and many of us have had to personally listen to. Especially about reconnecting with your AP. Had your remorse been completely true, you would never have reconnected with her. I can only tell you from my standpoint, if my husb reconnected with the OW, after the pain of the first time, that is a wound that would slice to the soul. The question I would ask you about that is "What about you made you cross that boundary? Why did you make that choice, after seeing the pain you had caused?" 

I commend you for opening your eyes and seeing the difference between who you thought you were being and actually who you were being. My husb did that, as long as he was happy and doing what he felt necessary, everyone must be happy, everything must be fine. Problem was, he was wrong about what was necessary and needed.

I assume you are living a transparent life, wife has passwords to EVERYTHING. You let her know where you are, how long you'll be there and when you'll be home. That is crucial for her to regain a sense of safety. 

Moving to live around one set of parents or in one's home town is tough sometimes, you have connections, she doesn't. Maybe you could gently ask your family to back off a bit until you can get things on track.

I wish you luck.


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> Perhaps I was a bit "terse" in my post. I apologize. It just seemed to me like you were following the script of minimizing we've seen here and many of us have had to personally listen to. Especially about reconnecting with your AP. Had your remorse been completely true, you would never have reconnected with her. I can only tell you from my standpoint, if my husb reconnected with the OW, after the pain of the first time, that is a wound that would slice to the soul. The question I would ask you about that is "What about you made you cross that boundary? Why did you make that choice, after seeing the pain you had caused?"
> 
> I commend you for opening your eyes and seeing the difference between who you thought you were being and actually who you were being. My husb did that, as long as he was happy and doing what he felt necessary, everyone must be happy, everything must be fine. Problem was, he was wrong about what was necessary and needed.
> 
> ...


i am, she is free to read my mail or whatever else if she wants, i really don't care, although it might make surprise parties difficult to pull off. trust will take a long time though, she still sometimes acts like i'm being 'sneaky' with my phone or something, and it's like, my phone is sitting right here and you have the code? kind of hard to get mad about it though, i'm sure i'd be worse if it were me.

as for why i reconnected with the other woman...i've thought a lot about this because honestly, it's not like she, as a person, meant sh*t to me when it comes right down to it. a poster here suggested it was the 'thrill', and...maybe that was, like, 2% of the reason, but really, that was not a thrill i was looking for. i was very happy we had lost all communication and when her emails started trickling in, i didn't know what to do. instead of doing the smart thing and just saying 'do not contact me' i decided to just treat it like some old acquaintance, bull**** about work, etc. of course that is some fantasy nonsense but that is what was going through my head. 

the other reason is that on some level i was very resentful of some of her behavior, and maybe i felt justified doing something so obviously wrong. of course all bad behavior by anyone since the beginning of time has been 'justified', but that's just a childish copout to avoid accepting responsibility. you still come away scarred, and probably, scarring other people in the process. but anyway...

god after all this, i just want to live an open life, do things that make my wife happy, be a good dad...jesus if i've screwed that up permanently, screwed up my kids' RIGHT to grow up in a stable household with two loving parents, killed whatever love my wife had for me...i don't know if i will be able to keep it together to be honest. i'm so angry, i want to go back to the foolish child i was when i made these decisions and just smack the crap out of him. you can't go do a bad thing, then justify it, put it in some box over here, and pretend it's not part of who you are? tell him, you're mad at your wife, oh really? then f'ing tell her, f'ing TALK TO EACH OTHER instead of withdrawing from the situation and being mad it isn't perfect, that she isn't acting like you think she should. 

i think i grew up in a loving family, but there was basically zero conflict/total conflict avoidance, and when it showed up in my life, i dealt with it like a child.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

A couple of issues stand out to me.

First, you are the problem not your wife, stop trying to blame her. She's hurt because of the issues you created, not some remote incidents from her past childhood. You keep trying to find a way to blame this on things that happened before you were around simply because it allows you to put it on her and not on you. you are the one with "Issues" not her. Just because she played doctor with the neighborhood boys as a child doesn't make her a victim of abuse with scars that are with her for life. Lot's of girls have had boyfriends from their teen years who "Forced" the issue of sex and maybe she did have some unpleasant episodes but it doesn't mean those things are causing her issues now with you and you would be well advised to put a stop to that nonsense now.

Also, you didn't seem to have any issues uprooting your kids when the result was what you wanted so please stop the BS about how harmful moving them AGAIN would be. it is very clear you are just using them to get what you want. This is a very obvious tactic and is VERY petty of you.

Stop also forcing your family into the mix. She married you not them and they shouldn't be involved in your daily lives if your wife doesn't want that. You are smothering her with your family and it's only going to get worse if you keep it up.

You need to get her to neutral ground. You need to decide if you want to live at home or have her as your wife, after all you have done to sour the whole situation you can't have it both ways. To save this, if you even can, you need to show her you are willing to make sacrifices. Not debate with her until you AGAIN get your own selfish way. 

The biggest favor you could do for her right now is divorce her and let her move on in life. She deeply regrets marrying you and unless you are willing to do EVERYTHING it takes to fix it, which you don't seem willing at all to do then you should show her some respect and cut her free.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Are you planning to tell your family that you betrayed your wife?


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

wanttofixit said:


> chalk it up to another selfish decision. she was not opposed to the move, geography-wise. we discussed towns all around the area, and i wasn't opposed to it. for me obviously the home town made the most sense...if we wanted to go out for an evening w/o kids, can't really lean on grandma/grandpa if we're an hour away?
> 
> but anyway when it became real she finally said 'you know you'll never be happy if you don't just move home...'. and of course i took that and ran with it...the thing is, it wasn't like she had some strong preference of some other place. so when one person desperately wants something, and the other just shrugs their shoulders, what's the right call?
> 
> ...



"You can never go home again" - Thomas Wolfe

Mostly refers to the passing of time and the inability to return to your youth and the dreams you had back then. Doesn't stop people from trying and I get that. I had an idyllic childhood in a serious Shangri-La. It took some effort to let it go.

In this case, however, I think the quote should read "You should never have gone home again"

I think you moved back because it's *your *happy place. A place of strength where *you* can stand and weather her anger and depression over your affair comfortably surrounded by *your* support group (family and friends). 

Does she have (or has she made) any very close friends there that she can confide in? 

Because if she hasn't, after knocking her legs out from under her with your infidelity, you've now isolated her completely. 

She sees your family and friends and the new place you've moved her to as extensions of the person who caused her so much pain. 

You. 

It's your hometown. She's an outsider. Everything she does and says will be judged by them solely in the context of her relationship with the prodigal son. You will always be able to moderate and minimize any impact or consequences her version of the story might have because the jury's in your pocket. When you tell them, they will forgive you and she will become a pariah.

No surprise she's withdrawn and uncommunicative. 

If you want to make a gesture that means something, suggest plans to move closer to her family and support group, see if she bites, then do it if she does.

At the very least you'd learn what it feels like to be as isolated and alone as you have made her.


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