# Aging and keeping the passion after 40+ years



## Young at Heart

I love my wife, she is my best friend and at times my lover. She is the mother of my children, a woman I respect, a woman who knows me and takes good care of me, a woman of great emotional strength and courage, a woman with ethics and values that I share. We have been married for a little less than 44 years and faithful to each other. 

Our marriage has had some rough spots that we were both responsible for. We had a classic Sex Starved Marriage for a while; got help from a sex theapist and a marriage counselor. We each choose to remain married and fight for our marriage. We have reconnected, and now have sex about twice a week. We spend more time caring for each other and checking in on each others feelings. We try to pamper each other a little. We know we have to be good to each other and yet we are very comfortable just sharing space as very close friends. We have seen a number of friends divorce and others where one partner has died. Haven't seen many obvious role models for living a passionate senior marriage.

My observation (and from what I have read) keeping the lust of lovers or newlyweds alive after 40+ years is pretty hard to do. I have read Ester Perel's Mating in Captivity and several other relationship books, including Schnarch's the Passionate Marriage.
I have read Kliger and Nedelman's Still Sexy after all these Years, and Price's Naked at our Age. From what I have learned from these books is that I want to continue to grow mentally and emotionally with shared experiences with my wife as long as we can.

As a guy I don't have the body, I did when I was in my 20's, but neither does my wife. We both exercise regularly as health is important to us. I do know a whole lot more about my body, my wife's body and what gives us pleasure and what my wife finds emotionally troubling than I did in my youth. I find my wife sexually attractive and want her.

So when I look at aging, I wonder if old and long term married couples end up transitioning at some point into Friends with Benefits or if the emotional connection of husband and wife and a flicker of lust always remains there. I really didn't see that in either my parents or my wife's parents before they died. They looked more like roomates sharing a living space and maybe some sexual benefits. I don't see many people we know who are into keeping the flame of lust and intense love alive in their marriages.

I also wonder about any suggestions, great books, articles or speakers on keeping the passion going for those in their 70's and older? Any thoughts or stories of real people (role models) who lead passionate lives as couples well into their senior years would be appreciated.

One of the things that our sex therapist taught us was to visualize what we wanted in the future in our marriage so that we can make it happen. I visualize an active old couple, snuggling and making love for as long as they can. Having some other role models and articles to help with the visualization would be appreciates.

Thanks


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## ladymisato

Young at Heart said:


> So when I look at aging, I wonder if old and long term married couples end up transitioning at some point into Friends with Benefits or if the emotional connection of husband and wife and a flicker of lust always remains there.


It's one thing to slow down, another thing entirely to quit.

What couples lose to aging they gain in wisdom and knowledge of self and other, all of which you reflected in your observations.

My experience has been that with age comes ever greater intimacy which begets a different sort of sexuality. It's not the sexuality of wild rutting beasts but of gentle and sincere lovers who care deeply about pleasing each other.


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## Young at Heart

ladymisato said:


> ...with age comes ever greater intimacy which begets a different sort of sexuality. It's not the sexuality of wild rutting beasts but of gentle and sincere lovers who care deeply about pleasing each other.


I hope you are right. 

The book "Still Sexy after all these Years" talks of older women in a transition from sexuality to sensuality with some sexuality remaining.


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## ladymisato

Young at Heart said:


> I hope you are right.
> 
> The book "Still Sexy after all these Years" talks of older women in a transition from sexuality to sensuality with some sexuality remaining.


I haven't read that book but I can imagine sensuality as the more intimate version of sexuality that I described.


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## Young at Heart

ladymisato said:


> It's one thing to slow down, another thing entirely to quit..


I looked at your website and not sure I agree with all that is posted, but I did find the following from late last year interesting.



> The reason that sexual passion fades is that married couples overturn the most important power asymmetry in their relationship. It is not the power of the man to take the woman as he pleases but the power of the woman to refuse him.
> 
> We call this asymmetric power dynamic: courtship.


Sort of a different take on reinforcing the dynamic in the book Mating in Captivity. 

Thanks.


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## J.deere

I'm going thru this now. Of course there are some emotional building I have to do but I wonder if age is a part of it.

I personally refuse to let things wane. I say it's not fair to men cause we are still in our prime around 40. But age seems to hit women harder. So I've read on TAM that this is typical I just don't want to throw in the towel and say oh well its over for me and her that we should just accept the age will equal the downward slope of our intimacy and essentially our lives. 

I don't care to believe also things have to change because of years togeather or how old we are. I think some women use it as an excuse.


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## jld

J.deere said:


> I'm going thru this now. Of course there are some emotional building I have to do but I wonder if age is a part of it.
> 
> I personally refuse to let things wane. I say it's not fair to men cause we are still in our prime around 40. But age seems to hit women harder. So I've read on TAM that this is typical I just don't want to throw in the towel and say oh well its over for me and her that we should just accept the age will equal the downward slope of our intimacy and essentially our lives.
> 
> *I don't care to believe also things have to change because of years togeather or how old we are. I think some women use it as an excuse*.


I can't imagine this attitude will help you much.


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## November

J.deere said:


> I'm going thru this now. Of course there are some emotional building I have to do but I wonder if age is a part of it.
> 
> I personally refuse to let things wane. I say it's not fair to men cause we are still in our prime around 40. But age seems to hit women harder. So I've read on TAM that this is typical I just don't want to throw in the towel and say oh well its over for me and her that we should just accept the age will equal the downward slope of our intimacy and essentially our lives.
> 
> I don't care to believe also things have to change because of years togeather or how old we are. I think some women use it as an excuse.


I don't know that 40 is a downer time... but often at 40 life is busy, kids and well into school, and with activities, careers are strong, etc... and that affects time for passion. However, with things simmer and kids get out and less stress, it can pick up a bit.


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## November

J.deere said:


> I'm going thru this now. Of course there are some emotional building I have to do but I wonder if age is a part of it.
> 
> I personally refuse to let things wane. I say it's not fair to men cause we are still in our prime around 40. But age seems to hit women harder. So I've read on TAM that this is typical I just don't want to throw in the towel and say oh well its over for me and her that we should just accept the age will equal the downward slope of our intimacy and essentially our lives.
> 
> I don't care to believe also things have to change because of years togeather or how old we are. I think some women use it as an excuse.


I feel the same... I'm not giving up and looking forward to more good ideas on how to keep sex alive and vibrant in later years. Whatever it takes. I'm not going to grow old without an active sex life.


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## Am sammy 3

I was married almost 30 yrs b4 my hub had an affair. We had a good marriage. Or as I thought. My parents were married 62 yrs, mom died, all my young childhood neighs grew up w parents that stayed together. In laws over 55 yrs, FIL died.

My own neighborhood I'm surrounded by couples my age, 50-60'-70's who have been married a very long time. 

Most of my close friends are also in long term marriages. And most of my friends are in marriages without stress of $, kids are grown, parents are dead, or taken care of. Are most of them happy? Is there passion? 50/50, and its 50/50 if it's the men or women who get bored.

But since I've been single, I've spent a lot of time looking at older couples as I'm saddened as now I'll be growing old alone. 

Whether I'm sitting in Central Park or shopping in Walmart, or boarding an airplane, but what I see are the couples who show each other kindness, tenderness, respect & a sweetness towards each other most likely do so in all other parts of there lives together. So what ever is passion for one couple may be totally different for another as they age. 

~ sammy


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## RAYMOND

It's a great thing to keep a marriage going forever. Keeping the sex alive helps enormously. One has to work at it as we are changing continually. What we do in the bedroom now has changed from what we did when younger.

I think the relationship is number one and that has to be there as a basis for the bedroom although the bedroom has a real contribution to the relationship. One needs the spark that sexual intimacy brings.

Young at heart I wish all the best in your quest for continuing sexual intimacy. I know it is difficult. My wife never instigates it but does respond if I start it. I do feel guilty sometimes as I have this kink but really it adds so much fire to my sexual life and never seems to go away. My wife is comfortable with it as it happens.


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## RAYMOND

I think passion is different for each couple. One size does not fit all. It is sad that your husband had an affair. It is so common these days but normally spells the death knell for a marriage. I hope you find someone else or at least learn to be really happy as you are. I see older divorced singles and they seem very happy with a good social life. It was not their fault that their husbands strayed so there is no reason not to enjoy life with a clear conscience.


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## Angela Goodnight

I was 65 on 16th August and my husband is 67. We make love about twice a week, sometimes more often, rarely less and sildenafil plays its part as the drugs my husband takes after recovering from a stroke can make erections difficult occasionally, but when we make love it is not unusual for it to last longer than an hour.

I blog about it and if you look at the timeline page on my sex blog, close to the bottom you'll find an explicit description of our lovemaking on my birthday last year. Just search Angela Goodnight.

Making love into old age is great fun, very relaxing and we both think it is the reason for living. Those wonderful afternoons, with nothing better to do than cuddle and tangle our legs around each other. Who could fail to enjoy it and, of course, although you have the outward trappings of age, inside we are still teenagers. 

Your story was fascinating. Thanks.


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## RAYMOND

You still have good legs for your age Angela.

Seriously I don't think sex is the reason for living but it is a generous gift given by God to help hold marriages together.

I have tried Cialis etc. but don't think it is healthy and my wife doesn't want me to use it, so we have glorious foreplay instead.


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## RAYMOND

Young at Heart said:


> I looked at your website and not sure I agree with all that is posted, but I did find the following from late last year interesting.
> 
> Thanks.


I know what you mean Young at Heart. Looks like the men have lost their masculinity and have become virtual slaves of their wives. That isn't how love is supposed to be.


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## November

Am sammy 3 said:


> I was married almost 30 yrs b4 my hub had an affair. We had a good marriage. Or as I thought. My parents were married 62 yrs, mom died, all my young childhood neighs grew up w parents that stayed together. In laws over 55 yrs, FIL died.
> 
> My own neighborhood I'm surrounded by couples my age, 50-60'-70's who have been married a very long time.
> 
> Most of my close friends are also in long term marriages. And most of my friends are in marriages without stress of $, kids are grown, parents are dead, or taken care of. Are most of them happy? Is there passion? 50/50, and its 50/50 if it's the men or women who get bored.
> 
> But since I've been single, I've spent a lot of time looking at older couples as I'm saddened as now I'll be growing old alone.
> 
> Whether I'm sitting in Central Park or shopping in Walmart, or boarding an airplane, but what I see are the couples who show each other kindness, tenderness, respect & a sweetness towards each other most likely do so in all other parts of there lives together. So what ever is passion for one couple may be totally different for another as they age.
> 
> ~ sammy


You certainly don't have to remain single... there are opportunities out there to meet some good potential mates. Not as easy as it was years ago, but still there. It takes confidence and putting forth a good honest effort. Go for it.


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## Am sammy 3

Thanks Novemeber for the kind words. It's funny, when h & I went to mc each one told us, "You two have what couple work so hard to get to!" Yet he still had an affair.

We traveled the world together, (a lot))we so often sat in front of our kitchen fireplace with wine talking of love life & pursuits of happiness. We were close. We had sex at all different times of the day bc his job was like that, not on a regular 9-5. We sat together and watched all kinds of tv shows together. We ate dinners together, hel'd wine and dine me, bought me flowers, nice xmas gifts, each of us going out of our way for each other. There was real love there. 

Yup it change over the years as we were 28 & 29 when we met. No child, Just us, We were gypies at heart, we were well matched. Our marriage was easy, it flowed. It wasnt this hard work everyone speaks of, because we wanted to be together, and together we were. 

The first night I met my h, I told a friend, "If things worked out, I think I just met the person I will spend the rest of my life with." Two days later, I moved to New England with him, and we have been together since, even in separation we are together, 33 years later, 4 yrs after his affair living in pure hellish limbo. 

From living in a complete blissful relationship overnight to to a complete different one, yes, marraiges change. So does love. 

I think a lot of my friends marriage started to shift in one way or another when both the men & women start into the 50's. I dont think we really understand the changes each start to experience, but we just know that we start to miss what was. Women start to see the aging, starting menopause, kids leaving the nest, jobs, career moves, aging parents. For the men very much the same, there is a shift in the marriages at this point for sure. Outer outside stress, sometimes it doesnt leave much time for much more than, "let's do it, man that was great, thx." Not much passion there from the early days. 

Even with a close marriage, doing things right, or thinks so, I have no idea on my end what keeps a marriage going, as I have 2 other friends who have the worst marriage of 31 yrs, and both men talk of the great sex they get, wives talk of of how much hubby loves them, but what they dont know is hubby is off in Hong Kong banging 5 women at once, and other hubby cant wait to retire to leave wifie, but until then gets the best bj in the world. 

Another married friend, married, 40 years, wife size of a house. H not far behind. " We'll love each other no matter what we look like."

I didnt let myself go, for my age. I dont think I'm hard on the eyes, can clean up quite nicely. I'm educated, interesting, easy going, love the world, hubby had a great thing going & now knows it. People who knew us were in total shock. Told us we changed their whole beliefs in marriage! 

He is begging me to remember all the good things he did in our marriage instead of the bad mistake, the affair. Yup, looking back over a 30+ marriage I see so much. My gf friend is in a 47 yr marriage, h has dementia, she no longer loves him at all the way she did, and no, there is no intimacy. She too looks over a lifetime spent w one man she so fell in love with 47 years ago with such a love story, and she tells me of how her love has changes throughout the life. 


So I dont, I dont know what the secrets is to aging and keeping it alive, but I saw my parent play bumper cars in their house with their walkers, and they looked like they were having lots of fun...

~sammy


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## Angela Goodnight

RAYMOND said:


> You still have good legs for your age Angela.


Not actually my legs, but mine are not too bad. LOL.



> Seriously I don't think sex is the reason for living but it is a generous gift given by God to help hold marriages together.


Not sure what mythical deities have to do with it, but that is a whole different argument. If a god had any influence on the design of our bodies he'd have put the clitoris beside or inside the vagina, not at the top of the vulva more than an inch away from the action!!



> I have tried Cialis etc. but don't think it is healthy and my wife doesn't want me to use it, so we have glorious foreplay instead.


Your last paragraph implies you don't understand ED. So to clarify, Viagra is not taken by Peter as a recreational drug, but to deal with the side effects of drugs taken for a medical problem which can cause erectile dysfunction. You give the impression that you maybe think it is all down to better foreplay and that is a complete misunderstanding of the situation. ED usually rears its ugly head in the middle of sexual intercourse *after* penetration (in our case) and it happens when least expected. Peter has to use it occasionally because of his medical condition. Our foreplay is phenomenal and ED never occurs during petting or fellatio, only during intercourse *after* penetration (it affects other men differently sometimes of course).

No drugs are healthy, but some are necessary like warfarin to prevent another stroke, perindopril to lower his blood pressure and others, too. In fact, the perindopril, amlodipine and bisoprolol have ED as a side-effect which is another reason sildenafil is prescribed by his cardiologist.

Just clarifying. Good foreplay is always a good idea and we are great advocates.


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## Young at Heart

RAYMOND said:


> I know what you mean Young at Heart. Looks like the men have lost their masculinity and have become virtual slaves of their wives. That isn't how love is supposed to be.


Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy is a great book that has a slightly different, but similar theme. It urges men to become integrated men who improve themselves and take responsibility for their own happiness.


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## Caribvistors

Raymond
Your the only responder so far to mention "kink". I found that as I aged became "kinkier" and fortunately my wife was always willing to participate, so that helped to keep our sex life interesting over the past 47 years of marriage.

My wife is my best friend and I am rarely seen out of work when she is not with me. We never seem to get tired of each other's company and we have been that close since we were teenagers..

One of the changes in our intimacy in recent years, is my focus now on her satisfaction over mine. We enjoy our about twice weekly sexual encounters and are very happy with each other. Recently I have tried Viagra and Cialis a couple of times and they did improve my performance, but they are not something I need to take regularly. A lot of our sex occurs spontaneously, so there is no advance time for me to take the pills. During all of our years together my wife has rarely instigated intimacy between us, something that I have found to be very frustrating, as most husbands in similar situations can appreciate. But on those occasions she did; WOW.

Unlike other long term marriages we read/know about, we never had to go thru what is commonly referred to as, "a rough patch". I guess we have been pretty lucky. Not that we have not had a few serious discussions over issues, but we work them out in fairly short time. We made an agreement early on to never go to sleep mad and so far we have followed that, which put us on the road to resolution a lot quicker. We are both lucky enough to somehow be devoid the famous green monster, jealousy, which eliminated at number of potential issues between us.

Sammi 
I feel bad for you that after 30 years you guys split up over your husband's betrayal. Not knowing the details or the emotions involved, was it worth ending that long term and as you described, an apparently loving marriage over this transgression? The old question hangs in the air, are you better off now w/o him????


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## Okguy

You are in your 70s and having sex twice a week? I am lucky if it happens once a month. In our 60s.


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## November

Okguy said:


> You are in your 70s and having sex twice a week? I am lucky if it happens once a month. In our 60s.


There's lots of 60 and 70 yr olds that have it twice a week. I'm over 60 and can do 4x a week... easily. And I'm nothing special. And I'm always up for more experimenting and new things (you'd think they had all been discovered by now)...


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## Caribvistors

Okguy

Not quite 70 yet, but it is coming. We were married quite young, especially by today's standards. Yes, usually twice a week, sometimes "life" happens to get in the way like everyone else and it might only be once a week.


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## Okguy

No way we will ever be doing it twice a week.


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## Am sammy 3

Caribvistors, 

To answer your question, am I better off now with or with out? That is a loaded question. We are no where near finalize what we are doing yet, other than living apart for the past 4 years but do I miss the arguing? NO way. The tension in our daily life together, no way. Can I enjoy my day with out flipping the bird at him when he walks away now, yeap.

Do I miss going out to dinners, having someone to be around, someone to talk with , yup I do that, but he and I will never be the way we were before. I love him still, but I am not in love with him as I was. I could and would do anything for him, and he knew so, as I even defended him many times against his own family, but then we had each others back. All that we had for 30 years is gone. Its so true, you spend a life time building your reputation, and can take one big f*** up to ruin it . 

I am too in my early 60's, and have been sexually active all our marriage. He was gone a lot during it ((airline pilot)) and every time he return the days off we had sex everytime, at all different times of the day. And sadly, I was one of the female that enjoyed sex! I think men get this wrong in this area about women and sex. Ive said this before, Women like sex... they just dont like bad sex. 

In fact when I found out about his affair one of of our really bad fights were about when I asked him, "Did you even think about me and sex? What the f*** am I to do now?? 

We just went throught a pretty big discussion this weekend over the state of our limbo. It was pretty traumatic for both of us, and we are both pretty drained right now. His one comment that stays with me, "So what am I suppose to do now? Sit her and watch you have a life with a complete stranger? You take a gamble on someone new that you have no idea about? When you wont take a gamble on me ? When you are my life." 


This is where I am not better off, I feel trapped. My huband want us to try so much to work on us, to not give it up. He tell me over and over how much I am his world, his family. Me walking away or me asking for the marriage to end is like to him our son asking to D us. His male friends tell him he is crazy after 4 yrs, D her a** give her the mim and walk away. Start a new life, let her see what she((me))will be missing. These are the same guys that I have also known for 30+ years... he tells them he could never do that...but he told me he could never cheat. 

Ok I know, the answer is to D. Which brings me to am I not better off or not? 

I dont know, all I know is I liked where I was. I was happy where I was. My life was pretty dare good where it was. Can it be that again w my hub. No, and this weekend he told me he realized I will never be "there for him" again. 


He has played the victim, the narc, the accuser, the resenter, the remoresful, the pityful, kind, generous, conducive, ww through out all of this, but there is one big part of it all that I just cant get past... I cant give him the love that he so much wants from me after he gave himself and our life away to her. Im far from purtain as that sounds, as I am a very progressive in mind thought female. 

I came to age when women could have it all, the late 70's, Ive never worked, I ve traveled everywhere, I live my life in my own world thinking I am living the life of ralley. When women aske me, "don't you miss working? "I would be thinking, "hmmmm, let me think of that when I going down the Mekong River and you are in a cube...," I came and went, answered to no one really, did as i please, had zero real worries. The world was really ours and we used it. But boy, did that "progressive thinking" come back to kick me in the butt, as I have world experience, but I lack working skills... I am unemployable at the grand age of 60, and now that I may be forces out to work, as my state does not look foundly on long term marriages. ((I was told I was too old for rehab prog back into the work world!!! OMG !!!by a lawyer !!! ))

But Lillian Carter joined the peace corp at 60. And yes, we have all the retirement stuff and everything will be divided 50%, but he can cont to work well into the next 10 yrs as a consultant, flying privatly, or training... My lawyer told me at best, it comes out to 27% each after all is done and paid ... but he can rebuild I cant for a much longer time. Laws are still written by men for men, and sadly passed by men for the most part still. 

Anyway didnt mean to make this so long, but thanks for asking if Im better off now or not, Im still trying to answer, Im back in IC after 10 months away, so maybe Ill find what I need to find this time around. 

~sammy


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## Young at Heart

Am sammy 3 said:


> Caribvistors,
> 
> To answer your question, am I better off now with or with out? That is a loaded question.
> 
> ..... I love him still, but I am not in love with him as I was. I could and would do anything for him, and he knew so, as I even defended him many times against his own family, but then we had each others back.
> 
> ....I am too in my early 60's, and have been sexually active all our marriage.
> 
> ....I feel trapped. My huband want us to try so much to work on us, to not give it up. He tell me over and over how much I am his world, his family. Me walking away or me asking for the marriage to end is like to him our son asking to D us.
> 
> Ok I know, the answer is to D. Which brings me to am I not better off or not?
> 
> I dont know, all I know is I liked where I was. I was happy where I was. My life was pretty dare good where it was. Can it be that again w my hub. No, and this weekend he told me he realized I will never be "there for him" again.
> 
> ....Anyway didnt mean to make this so long, but thanks for asking if Im better off now or not, Im still trying to answer, Im back in IC after 10 months away, so maybe Ill find what I need to find this time around.
> 
> ~sammy


Try to work with you IC to break things down into managable pieces. That is find something you want to change, then break it into small doable pieces and set some goals for achieving them. Then reward yourself for each goal you achieve.

In an endurance race, it sometimes comes down to mental approach. I am just going to run until I reach the end of the block then I will establish a new goal. I am am just going to run until I get half way up that hill and then I will power walk the rest of the way to the top and start running from the top again.

Figure out what makes you happy. Then do things and add things to your life that make you happy. Do it in small steps until you actually can look yourself in the mirron and say, "I am truly happy with myself." 

Figure out what if any relationship you want with your H and then work to make it a reality.

Good luck.


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## November

Am sammy 3 said:


> Caribvistors,
> 
> To answer your question, am I better off now with or with out? That is a loaded question. We are no where near finalize what we are doing yet, other than living apart for the past 4 years but do I miss the arguing? NO way. The tension in our daily life together, no way. Can I enjoy my day with out flipping the bird at him when he walks away now, yeap.
> 
> Do I miss going out to dinners, having someone to be around, someone to talk with , yup I do that, but he and I will never be the way we were before. I love him still, but I am not in love with him as I was. I could and would do anything for him, and he knew so, as I even defended him many times against his own family, but then we had each others back. All that we had for 30 years is gone. Its so true, you spend a life time building your reputation, and can take one big f*** up to ruin it .
> 
> I am too in my early 60's, and have been sexually active all our marriage. He was gone a lot during it ((airline pilot)) and every time he return the days off we had sex everytime, at all different times of the day. And sadly, I was one of the female that enjoyed sex! I think men get this wrong in this area about women and sex. Ive said this before, Women like sex... they just dont like bad sex.
> 
> In fact when I found out about his affair one of of our really bad fights were about when I asked him, "Did you even think about me and sex? What the f*** am I to do now??
> 
> We just went throught a pretty big discussion this weekend over the state of our limbo. It was pretty traumatic for both of us, and we are both pretty drained right now. His one comment that stays with me, "So what am I suppose to do now? Sit her and watch you have a life with a complete stranger? You take a gamble on someone new that you have no idea about? When you wont take a gamble on me ? When you are my life."
> 
> 
> This is where I am not better off, I feel trapped. My huband want us to try so much to work on us, to not give it up. He tell me over and over how much I am his world, his family. Me walking away or me asking for the marriage to end is like to him our son asking to D us. His male friends tell him he is crazy after 4 yrs, D her a** give her the mim and walk away. Start a new life, let her see what she((me))will be missing. These are the same guys that I have also known for 30+ years... he tells them he could never do that...but he told me he could never cheat.
> 
> Ok I know, the answer is to D. Which brings me to am I not better off or not?
> 
> I dont know, all I know is I liked where I was. I was happy where I was. My life was pretty dare good where it was. Can it be that again w my hub. No, and this weekend he told me he realized I will never be "there for him" again.
> 
> 
> He has played the victim, the narc, the accuser, the resenter, the remoresful, the pityful, kind, generous, conducive, ww through out all of this, but there is one big part of it all that I just cant get past... I cant give him the love that he so much wants from me after he gave himself and our life away to her. Im far from purtain as that sounds, as I am a very progressive in mind thought female.
> 
> I came to age when women could have it all, the late 70's, Ive never worked, I ve traveled everywhere, I live my life in my own world thinking I am living the life of ralley. When women aske me, "don't you miss working? "I would be thinking, "hmmmm, let me think of that when I going down the Mekong River and you are in a cube...," I came and went, answered to no one really, did as i please, had zero real worries. The world was really ours and we used it. But boy, did that "progressive thinking" come back to kick me in the butt, as I have world experience, but I lack working skills... I am unemployable at the grand age of 60, and now that I may be forces out to work, as my state does not look foundly on long term marriages. ((I was told I was too old for rehab prog back into the work world!!! OMG !!!by a lawyer !!! ))
> 
> But Lillian Carter joined the peace corp at 60. And yes, we have all the retirement stuff and everything will be divided 50%, but he can cont to work well into the next 10 yrs as a consultant, flying privatly, or training... My lawyer told me at best, it comes out to 27% each after all is done and paid ... but he can rebuild I cant for a much longer time. Laws are still written by men for men, and sadly passed by men for the most part still.
> 
> Anyway didnt mean to make this so long, but thanks for asking if Im better off now or not, Im still trying to answer, Im back in IC after 10 months away, so maybe Ill find what I need to find this time around.
> 
> ~sammy


_sammy,

There's a strong argument to try to reconcile, it he is remorseful and is really sorry, and asks your forgiveness. He has to be sincere, but you'd probably be better of with him than without.

I was in a VERY similar job, like he was, same hours and travel, and there is a HUGE temptation to cheat, especially if working with the same crew for the month. Fortunately most of us can avoid the temptation, but everyone can't. Not giving excuses, but that's what happens. 

Good luck, but keep us posted.


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## Caribvistors

Sammi

I am no marriage councilor, but I have been around a lot of folks who have gone thru very difficult times in their marriages, often caused by of infidelity. 

First off don't focus on what his friends are telling him about getting a divorce, most are reading from a script. Apparently he is not putting too much value on what they are telling him. If you ask men who went thru a difficult divorce they will swear and even show "examples" of how the laws are heavily tilted in favor of the woman. Never met a husband or wife who survived a divorce court battle that were not convinced they were screwed in the proceedings and court's judgement. I am sure there are exceptions, but that is the general feeling. Only the lawyers win in the end.

Looking in from the outside of the relationship, you are seem to be killing yourself because you are unable or unwilling to "forgive" him for his transgression/s. No one said being married was easy, no matter how long the duration. If it was as good as you claim between you and him and enjoying that nice lifestyle for those 30 years is now apparently over. For the past 4 years you guys have been living apart and "talking" because he hurt you deeply and you still can't let the pain and resentment go, maybe it is time you formally "give up" and end the marriage and get on with your life. Hopefully both of you guys can find someone to share and enjoy the rest of the future. Maybe you will lucky and catch "the brass ring" again.

Based upon what you wrote, he has repeatedly asked you to forgive him and to work on your repairing your marriage, yet you cannot not find it in your heart to do so. Some people just can't or refuse to forgive (that doesn't make them bad folks) but they have to live with the results, both emotionally and financially. As you mentioned, at your stage in life and based upon your work experience and what your going to walk away with (27%), it is going to be difficult.

Don't know about his affair, how serious it was to him, how long it lasted, who the other woman was, etc, but apparently she is no longer in the picture. Yet her actions in conjunction with your husbands, are still impacting your life.


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## Jak22

RAYMOND said:


> Seriously I don't think sex is the reason for living but it is a generous gift given by God to help hold marriages together.


I don't think he is doing a great job. Why does he create so much desire imbalance and so many faltering, failed marriages?
jak


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## Young at Heart

Jak22 said:


> I don't think he is doing a great job. Why does he create so much desire imbalance and so many faltering, failed marriages?
> jak


If you really want to try to figure out the answer may I suggest some of the books by David Schnarch. Passionate Marriage, is about as hard to read as any graduate school textbook I have ever read. The Crucible is not much better.

Schnarch believes that the institution of marriage is that hardest thing two people can do, if done correctly. It will stretch them, tear at them, challenge them and force them to grow emotionally, challenge their emotional foundations, and ultimately allow them to self soothe, differentiate themselves into a more integrated genuine self through compromise with their spouse. In short it takes two people and makes them a single family unit through the crucible of marriage.

Of course you could just say that God loves to provide us with free will and temptation and see who we handle it.


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## Woodchuck

Will be married 50 years in February....Sex life was great till the wife hit a wall about 4 years ago....Loss of 2 sisters, depression, toxic GF...They lead the wife to shut down sexually....It took a couple of years to work it out......In the mean time health issues took away her ability to orgasm.....She regrets the pleasure we could have had.....She is now 70, and I am 2 years younger...


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## November

Woodchuck said:


> Will be married 50 years in February....Sex life was great till the wife hit a wall about 4 years ago....Loss of 2 sisters, depression, toxic GF...They lead the wife to shut down sexually....It took a couple of years to work it out......In the mean time health issues took away her ability to orgasm.....She regrets the pleasure we could have had.....She is now 70, and I am 2 years younger...


Wood,

That's a tough one and wish there was a solution for you and her. Maybe?


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## BrokenLady

My Mum is an artist. When I was a young teen I was snooping at one of her old portfolios. There were beautiful scetches & paintings of different parts of a mans anatomy. They were beautiful & a little titillating. As I carried on looking through the pages it became VERY graphic...then I saw the full body pictures! OMG!!! It was my Dad!!!!! Hahaha ;-) (I've recovered!) 

So...my parents weren't the average. They embrassed the 60's! They were never really open with me about things though. When my Mum was approaching 70 she went on a 'girls' weekend away. They did wine tasting & got a little tipsy & started talking about intimate things. My Mum came home a little worried & had a bit of an embarrassing conversation with me. ALL of the women said they rarely, if ever had sex anymore & seemed very relieved that 'that stage' of their marriages were over. My Mum was genuinely concerned that her & my Dad were a little 'perverted' because they still had sex "or did stuff" (no details thankfully) most nights & she really liked it. I found it amusing but a little sad that all these women had made her feel insecure. 

Anyway... From experience & conversations with friends hormonal changes have become a bit of a soap box subject for me. These days women use medical contraceptives & eat 'altered' food etc. many things that mess with hormonal balances. It's shocking the difference that the slightest hormonal or depression (& depression meds) can have on women's libidos. As a woman if you're not 'feeling it' a trip to a hormone SPECIALIST (not just regular GP screening) can make all the difference.

I've also had the unfortunate experience of infidelity. All the lies made a HUGE difference to how I felt about myself. I always loved just hanging out in bed naked, making love, chatting, laughing, listening to music, making love some more. I'd never been self conscious about myself before. For me, it wasn't about the OW it was about the lack of trust. Suddenly I feel like I'm being judged. Not loved unconditionally. It hasn't killed my libido. It's killed my confidence, my comfort, my freedom within my M.
Obviously my body has changed since my 20's & 30's but so has my husbands. Before the A's it never mattered. I don't know if it's my 'arty' upbringing but I've always found the human body (of any age) attractive. I've lost that. I'm a hapless romantic who believed that love is blind. Infidelity has killed that stone dead!! For the first time I've lost my innocence. I honestly never knew that men analysed & judged sexually the woman they loved. Naive I know!! But I loved my fantasy life. The TRUTH has imprisoned me not set me free. 

Back to the start of what I was saying.... My parents have always slept naked. They have changed & grown together. They appreciate eachothers bodies & how they can make eachother feel even now, well into their 70's. I truly believe its so much harder to get the 'spark' back than it is to keep it going. My parents have photo albums full of my Mum pregnant. My Dad obviously found her pregnant body VERY attractive. He mentions in everyday conversation now how lucky he is that she's aged so beautifully & voluptuously. 

I think what I'm saying is...it's a combination of medical factors that effect libido & most importantly MENTAL factors. When I believed that my H loved me unconditionally & a had blind faith in him it never crossed my mind that I could be judged & found lacking. For me, as a woman feeling safe, secure, adored gave me a comfort. Sex can be making love, it can be playing, it can be everything & anything but once the 'comfort & security' has gone I have no idea how to get the everyday magic back. Once it's 'sex' something you do, think about, it's different...almost a chore. I wish I knew how you get the naked comfort back. :-(


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## Caribvistors

You mentioned that your parents even into their 70s still sleep together naked and it apparently has a very positive effect upon their sexual relationship. I believe that comment is true, especially in folks who are married quite a few years. The comfort of feeling good enough about your own body while lying next to your partner is very reassuring to that person and helps to maintain a physical attraction between the couple. Also the mutual acceptance of the flaws that will certainly develop as people's bodies change with age, encourages attraction. I bet with mother's friends have never in quite a long time slept in the nude with their husbands and you can see where that decision has ultimately has led their intimate relationships. When you do not feel at least somewhat comfortable about your body when your with your long term partner, you are significantly reducing any interest in sex. Neither partner has to actually say it, just wearing a full set of pajamas and if there is any "planned" sexual activity, it has to be done in the dark.

The way your parents sleep together it a big clue as to why they are still into each other.


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