# Advice Appreciated on Infatuation from a Wronged Night



## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

First off I already respect a number of the members in this community because of the tremendous self-less support that is given. Most of you of you offer some very sincere, understanding but well-thought and realistic words of advice. 

I will try to be concise. Last weekend, I was out celebrating a birthday party for a friend and most of the people (including my wife) had gone home because they were tired. Long story short, I ended up with just my friend (male) talking to two girls in a bar. My intentioned was to be my friend’s wingman, which I realize how inappropriate that is now. Fast forward towards the end for the night, one of the girls was wearing my jacket and I was sitting alone on a coach with my arm around her. There was definitely the opportunity and urge where I contemplated doing more wrong. I was lucky to end the night without further incident. 

I’m aware I did a lot of wrong and just because I avoided a full on cheat I know my actions are not justified. Furthermore, I found myself extremely infatuated by this attractive stranger that I shared a night of conversation with. Despite a txt message that morning acknowledging it was nice to meet each other, I have since not made any form of contact. I am confident I can move on past this specific infatuation. I believe it will subside if I choose to move on.

*Why I’m reaching out is because I would like to get my head straight because I want my marriage to be the best it can*. We are in our mid/late 20s and my marriage is not even a year old (we dated for 6 years), and I’ve already stepped into murky water. I have never cheated on anyone before and this is this the worst thing I’ve done in a relationship (the two I’ve been in). The last thing I want to do is hurt her and I know she doesn’t deserve the pain. *I don’t feel that telling her what happened would benefit our relationship, even in the long run. Is it so wrong to withhold what happened? Secondly, is it normal to feel such infatuation towards someone so new and unknown? Do I have deep-seeded issues or is this a test of being human?* Any insight, advice or guidance is greatly appreciated.



Thank you.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You already know that what you did was wrong and could lead to a world of hurt for at least three people but probably many, many, more. 

Did you have a lot to drink? It shouldn't matter. 

If your wife had stayed with one of her single girl friends and she behaved the way this strange girl did with a good looking man would you want to know? Why? 

What would you expect her to do if she felt bad the next day like you do? 

Would it be any of your business? Even if it hurt you to hear it? 
Be honest - would you feel worse later if you somehow found the texts she received from the hunky new guy - even if she didn't intend to see him again - but confessed to you that 'it could have happened'?

You should drop the friend you were with. He should have pulled you aside and said "Hey dude! what are you thinking bud? - get your head straight" What did he do? High-five you?

Think about these things. It's not a good sign for a person in such a young marriage. Secrets lead to very bad things.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

You're pushing limits. This is exactly how affairs start. You should never do anything you need to keep secret from your wife. Follow this rule and you'll never cheat.

It sounds like you were getting validation from the other woman. Work on yourself. Workout, get a hobby, and find ways to make more money. In short make yourself a better man and you won't care so much for external validation.

Your infatuation is the start of the "fog" where the chemicals in the brain get you hooked on the new person. You should never see this girl again. 

This one act alone has probably weakened your bond with your wife. You should plan a romantic getaway to reconnect.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> I believe it will subside if *I choose to move on.*


Then you must so choose.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Just want to second WalkonMars post. Ditch the friend. He's no friend to your marriage.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

It's easy to think about screwing around. It's easy to do it. The pain that results from it is unspeakable, and can never be undone.

Here's what you are offering your wife:
Women who have been raped and cheated on report that the cheating was the most painful. Think about that. If you love your wife you will never cause her that kind of pain.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Tell your wife, apologize, then take it as an opportunity to discuss boundaries with her.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Thank you all for the prompt advice. These are very good points and while they suck to hear, I agree on their validity and see the worth for my marriage.

Mars, I appreciate the questions. It is an effective way for me to see the other side. I may choose to keep this a secret, and it may never make up for it, but I will work on being a better husband and never to have to keep another one. 

Ovid, you're right. I was flattered by the validation of an attractive girl. I do need to work on that aspect of myself. And not trying to make excuses, but I am very educated, an analyst at a non-profit (could make money), and even workout. Yet I've still managed to get myself into trouble. I am aware of the fog, your advice on it is not taken lightly.

Matt, I am choosing to move on. Never meant it to sound like a choice.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

jfv said:


> Tell your wife, apologize, then take it as an opportunity to discuss boundaries with her.


Thanks for the input. 

Boundaries aren't a question here. Arguably a grey area but I know it was wrong for me.

Also, I know these secrets are terrible. But I honestly can't say if she did something like this (and never did anything worse) I would be happier knowing it happened.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

theRaven said:


> Thank you all for the prompt advice. These are very good points and while they suck to hear, I agree on their validity and see the worth for my marriage.
> 
> Mars, I appreciate the questions. It is an effective way for me to see the other side. * I may choose to keep this a secret, and it may never make up for it, but I will work on being a better husband and never to have to keep another one. *
> 
> ...


Fair enough it your life and your marriage. It's probably for the best.
Here's some food for thought for future 'secrets'

*“Man is not what he thinks he is, he is what he hides.”*
― André Malraux


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

I can't say that you're wrong for not telling her, but you are making a choice for her. As her husband you promised to stand by her in all things and by choosing to keep this a secert you will be taking away her free agency to choose how to react. effectively you are forcing her to be ok with your choice.

Something that took me some time (i'm 24) to figure out is the concept of "what she doesn't know doesn't hurt her" is flawed. She will, by human intuition, figure something is off at some point. We all feel like we're better at poker face than we are. By accident or by admission, if it ever happens later it'll be infinitely worse. 

My recommendation, just get it over with, doubtful she'll be mad for long. However it's really not fair or wise to decide to hide it. 

.02


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Golden Rule raven, Do unto others, esp. if the 'others' are your loved ones. Would you want her to keep something like this from you? Keeping things from your spouse is a nasty habit. Don't start, it'll just get easier.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Learn and move on. Be mentally prepared the next time something comes up. Do rapid reaction drills in your mind considering how to make the correct responses and you'll be prepared. Now, nothing happened at this event, it was a couple of hours talking, no follow up, no kissing, no petting, etc. So, nothing happened.

Since nothing happened, that means there is nothing to tell your wife about. If you go do a "confession" for a non-event like this, she's going to think you're doing a woman-style confession where they go "I hugged a guy" and it really means "I ground my crotch on this guy's leg until I got off." She'll drive herself nuts over this, trying to figure out what really happened that you would bring all this drama over nothing.

Learn from it and put it behind you. No more contact with this girl.


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

theRaven said:


> *Despite a txt message that morning acknowledging it was nice to meet each other*


This is the only reason I disagree. Why does she have your number if it was just a causal hang out? Not trying to witch hunt just saying, I don't hand my number out to many people, especially strange in bars.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

It doesn't have to be 'confession like'. Just bring it up casually, "I was talking to the friend of a girl that so and so was trying to pick up and it got me thinking..."

Then talk about what you expect from her when it comes to the opposite sex. 

Unfortunately It is a conversation that alot of couples don't have until one of them winds up on this forum.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

theRaven said:


> Thanks for the input.
> 
> Boundaries aren't a question here. Arguably a grey area but I know it was wrong for me.
> 
> Also, I know these secrets are terrible. But I honestly can't say if she did something like this (and never did anything worse) I would be happier knowing it happened.


Don't you see? Boundaries are most definitely a question here. You walked quite blindly over several, creating a situation for yourself. This time nothing happened, but what if the woman was a bit more aggressive? Manipulative? What if you weren't feeling as good about your wife or marriage next time, or the time after that, or ...? 

You are at the beginning man, life is easy going right now. You don't have much depending on you. And already you let yourself down. You wouldn't be here if you didn't realize that, so good on you. People make mistakes, learn from small ones to avoid big ones.

So, yeah, you are married, you aren't wingman material anymore. You've got better things to do at home. Allow me to suggest a reading list I wish I'd had when I was newly married:

Divorce Busting, Michelle Weiner Davis

7 Principles for (Marriage, can't recall exactly), by John Gottman

Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass

Fight less, Love more, by Laurie Puhn

and a few more you can find on Google, too lazy to go look up the authors just now:
His Needs, Her Needs; Stop calling him Honey, and Start Having Sex; How can I be your Lover, when I'm too busy being your Mother.

Read those, pay attention and you'll be good to go in the marriage department. Read some of the threads on here to see what infidelity brings. It is straight up hell.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Stay away from the types of bars where single people go to meet. You're married now. Maybe you have some single friends. Watch football games with them, go out for dinner with them, do not go to singles bars with them. That part of your life is over and if you're not going there to either get drunk or hook up, there's not much point to it. You can't be a "wingman" anymore.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

I wouldn't be toooo hard on myself if I was you. A swift rap to the nuts should do it...

Seriously though, I think you were okay as "limited wingman", but the moment it progressed to the point where you had your arm around her....well, how would you feel if you walked in on your wife somewhere with her arm around a guy?

Remember how this feels (the bad parts). You know where the boundary is. If you can't chat with an attractive person of the opposite sex and resist her if she were to throw herself at you, then stop putting yourself in a position where that could happen.

The difference between a cheater and someone loyal is not the desire to be wanted, to be with someone attractive or new, but rather the foresight to KNOW where things can lead, and don't ever put yourself in that position. ALL affairs start out with someone doing something "small and insignificant" and putting themselves in a position they shouldn't be in. A small line gets crossed, then another, then the bigger ones. Don't cross the first small one. Have some control and self discipline.

Personally, I don't think my W would have a problem with me playing wingman. She trusts me a great deal. Having said that, a couple buddies and I were out last night for happy hour. The single buddy asked me to be wingman as he approached a girl who had a friend. I politely (lol) jokingly declined by telling him he didn't have a hair on his balls if he was afraid to approach her by himself with her friend there! 

I just can't bring myself to put myself in a position, any position, where if the W walked in, I'd hurt her or have her feel betrayed. I try to behave as though she is ALLWAYS WATCHING or that SHE WILL FIND OUT. She isn't, and she probably wouldn't, but it's a good boundary setter. Behave that way and you'll always be safe.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

* My intentioned was to be my friend’s wingman, which I realize how inappropriate that is now. Fast forward towards the end for the night, one of the girls was wearing my jacket and I was sitting alone on a coach with my arm around her. There was definitely the opportunity and urge where I contemplated doing more wrong. I was lucky to end the night without further incident.*

I see this as "lack of self-control". You should address this first.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Mtts, I have thougth what others have said and I see exactly what you're saying by a choice. I am still struggling with what choice I will make. I agree, it will hurt more in the future. But part of me is guilty and I don't want to tell her just for me. I want her to be happy. And no lie, but she had my number because I told her about my job as a non-profit and she wanted to write about it for a school project. I have deleted her number.

Machiavelli, I hear and appreciate your input. I am a lousy liar. But I am lucky that she doesn't have any doubts of what happened that night. Doesn't make me feel any better. But a hard lesson on my character and something I am trying to put behind.

JFV, When I think about telling her I think that is the appropriate tone. Its not my actions that I would have to explain to her, it would be my thoughts. Thoughts that I believe we all think and don't tell our others because it only brings harm.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

SadandAngry, I don't know you but I hope you are not always what your screen name implies. But yes, boundaries in that instant were broken, but I think I have learned my lesson. I appreciate the the small positive reinforcement for the little I've done right. I will look into those books to help me better myself.

Will Kane, well put I have already seen what damage can come from it.

Angry and Used, yes I did lack self-control. Should have ended the night much sooner. Also not an excuse, but I was curious (possibly for the dumb reasons of validation, self-esteem and the chase) to see how interested she was in me. However, I was able to control myself before making the ultimate mistake. I must learn how to control myself better in the future. All of your advice will help.

Donny64, I know people here can't tell me what I did was right but I really do appreciate that I'm not a total eff up. I think from your advice it is possible for someone to reenter my situation and not be wronging anyone, but people here are also right that as the person I currently am I'm just setting myself up for failure. You say it best that I should only do something if she was there, it would be ok. 

I don't know if everyone here really knows how much I appreciate the advice. All of it in fact. I have not decided to tell her or not to tell her. I struggle with debating whether I think she deserves to know or I want her to go through the pain. *Additionally, how does telling her benefit our relationship?* I can't say keeping secrets is beneficial but I can't completely see how telling her and hurting her would be any better. I am not without guilt for withholding this secret. I have lost sleep and I know I deserve this. But I do know I must tell her if I cannot move on and if I cannot move on from my insecurity and validation issues.

I am still all ears to those more thoughts, opinions and experience in the matter.

Thank you so much.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I'm not always sad and/or angry, but I sure was when I found this forum. I can't tell you if you should come fully clean or not. I can say that if she finds out, it won't look good. If it comes from someone else, it will look worse. This is something you need to consider carefully, don't make a hasty decision and blurt it out. 
I'm curious, were you wearing a wedding ring?


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

You are in a tough position. If you do not tell her now, she will remain happy and you will have a guilt feeling for some time. Then you might be tempted to do the same thing again.

If you tell her now, she will be heartbroken, but will appreciate you for being sincere. You also will have less burden on your mind.

I think whenever in doubt, Honesty is the best policy. You already are a risk taker - why not take again?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP, unless you were making out with this girl, fondling her breast or any other physical contact I'd chalk this up as one of those learning moments for yourself and never put yourself in this type of situation again. 

Based on your age, you are probably in a complicated situation right now when it comes to friends. You either have a 50/50 mix of married to single friends or the majority of your friends are single. I'm not going to tell you that you need to ditch all of your single friends or that you even need to ditch this friend last night considering the probability is that he was not encouraging you to hang out with this girl. But what you should consider is trying to develop more friendships with married couples and put the single friends on the back burner. It doesn't mean that you cut them off completely, but I would not consider going out on the town bar hopping UNLESS it was specifically limited to a group of guys going to see a sporting event - and no plans to cruise for women.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

S&A, I was wearing my wedding ring. She asked about it in the middle of the night and I truthfully told her. Not sure if it really made a difference but I can't help to think that it saved me in some way (whether it being a reminder to me or just enough for her not to make any moves). And I agree with not blurting it. Part of the reason why I haven't said anything yet, I'm "phrasing" through several emotions and I want to be more collected if I choose to say anything.

Asahnil, I agree I have gotten myself in a very tough position. I honestly never thought twice of how much guilt I would endure from something that only partially happened. Part of me does want to tell her, the guilt burden would be nice but her happiness and peace of mind is greater. Also, I'm still not convinced that telling her will bring any positives to our relationship. I would like to work through this together but at the same time I could spare her the pain and try to work on it on my own. 

Also, what exactly do I tell her? I know the truth, but what good does it do for me to tell her I thought about being unfaithful w/some stranger? Do I really owe that to her?

Ruminating over all the words and advice spoken to me. I have realized that I am in periods of depression. Nothing life-threatening or that sort but I think the combination of guilt, confusion, losing a forbidden lust and the harsh reality that a husband is worlds from a boyfriend is part of the reason.

I strongly believe everyone's input has helped steer me in a better direction.


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

I'll share a story with you theRaven and in it I hope you find some positive. Mine would have been harder to hide/explain than your situation but the idea is similar.

Prior to being married, while dating, I would spend a lot of time with one of my co-workers/friends drinking. We played a lot of beer drinking games, he had a lot of female friends.

One particular night, one of his friends, a very attractive girl, started to flirt with me. I didn't really recipricate it, but I didn't stop it. Well I was texting on my phone, she asked me what I was doing and I said "texting my GF." The girl tried to snatch my phone from me. This is where things got really weird fast. She was drunk, I was buzzed, well she started trying to wrestle with me, she started strattling me and went in for what I presume was a hicky. She bit me and left a nice bruise for a few days. 

I wasn't living with my g/f and I could easily have just said "oh that bruise, no it's nothing" and went on about my business. In fact, thats EXACTLY what I did. However the guilt really bugged me, even though I didn't initiate, I was in a place and hanging out in an enviroment I really knew better. My G/F at the time was pissed. Understandably, not only did I not explain it initially but after a few days said "so, this girl attacked me..." you can imagine the rest of that conversation. 

We got over it, rediscussed what was ok in our relationship and how we should go about presenting ourselves. This has had no lasting impact on our relationship other than a funny but awkward story. 

I knew I should have just left, but I choose to stay. She was pretty, I was buzzed, the whole thing was just a receipe for a bad deal. I'm not saying it's the right course but I can say that fundamentally if you feel the desire to be with other people and you feel the need for that validation, marriage isn't going to work well.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Ovid said:


> It's easy to think about screwing around. It's easy to do it. The pain that results from it is unspeakable, and can never be undone.
> 
> Here's what you are offering your wife:
> Women who have been raped and cheated on report that the cheating was the most painful. Think about that. If you love your wife you will never cause her that kind of pain.


I can tell you, as a child sexual assault survivor, it was/is easier for me to work through the pain and emotions of the assault rather than being cheated on by my husband. I am nearly 3 yrs out from dday.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

Learn from it, move on. 
If you think it will be your albatross, tell her. 
I personally think that if you use it as a learning experience, it can benefit you, without causing the undue drama telling her will bring. 
THAT BEING SAID:
Take the advice given to you. The lines become blurred and easier to cross if you continue. 
Then, one day, you will have lied to your wife so much that she really doesnt care that something SHE does could break your heart. 
She just wont care. 
This is experience talking. 
Learn your lesson. Have a loyal and good marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Plan 9, Part of me is thinking of using this as very valuable lesson (one I'm fortunate didn't become worse than ) to learn from and move on as a better husband. The other part questions whether she deserves to know or if its unnecessary pain. 

You do spark an interesting thought for me though. I have maybe a handful of married friends but most are either single or not near marriage status. And this is by no means an excuse, but I never liked the idea I was forbidden to partake in the same activities. But now it would be a best to focus away from those activities and keep those temptations out of my marriage. As sad and as much as I'd hate to let some of my past freedoms go, you're right, its no good for me. Never considered myself immature but shows that I have plenty of growing up to do.

Mtts, thanks for sharing your story. It is similar and I can take away some positives from that. I see the similarity in sharing truth and being honest. However I think my situation may cause more pain despite the lack of physical contact. She may appreciate my openness and honesty or she may become fixated on the pain I may cause. I am still debating.

CantePe (and Ovid), I believe that my actions could hurt a great deal amount. I will never forget what scope of pain I could bring with my actions. However, I admit that this pushes me away from being open because of what it may do.

Naga75, thank you for your thoughts. I hope this does not become my "albatross" but its too early for me to tell. I was never one to lie to her, I hate the thought right now. It does eat at me. I will NOT continue to make this a habit. Even if I "get away with it", the mental consequences alone have taught me a harsh lesson.

Side note, I wish I could buy everyone a pizza. Really just wonderful people.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

I would still want the whole truth, despite the pain and heart break. I said it was harder to take not impossible to overcome


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I know with my issues with hubz, what he did (and still does) that really winds me up is decides what information I am privy to dependent on his judgement of if it will benefit me/us or not or if it will hurt me. IMO it is his job as my husband to relay such information then I can tell him if it is an issue for me or not. He doesn't get to be judge and jury on how *I* run my life... God complex much?

In such things I think you should tell her because you clearly have a problem with boundaries. Heard of accountability? Yes you may well feel you have identified a potential weak spot and can work on it yourself. But think how much more accountable you will be from sharing. She will know and you will have that openness and honesty to police your behaviour and she will know your potential weak spots and you can work on them together.

Without telling her stuff like this you are presenting a manipulated "you." You are effectively pretending you are solid and dependable when in fact you are human and have flaws like everyone. I also think that not sharing creates a precedent for the future.

Also I will say that people talk. If your friend mentions something in passing to a friend and it gets back to your wife, you could be looking at something a lot more salacious and dirty than it ever was. I'd be inclinned to he forthright and upfront. Or even if the woman tries to get in touch with you and she mentions to someone how you two met... Not going to look good!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

This defintely is a boundary issue. I am just repeating what has been said for emphasis. You put yourself at risk. A married man has no business being another guys wingman. This is exactly yhe scenario we gripe about when it comes to non marriage friendly GNOs.

I get that you started the night with your wife there and she went home. If the other guy was looking for a wingman you should have left too.

If the genders were reversed it would have been weak for the husband that left his wife to be the wingwoman. 

There are those who would argue that what you did was not different from a GNO at the bar / club where the woman interact with the men there. IMO this is a level of unfaithfulness but many would disagree.

If your wife had walked back in, how would she have felt? What if someone used their iPhone and sent her a picture of you with your arms around this other woman. The fact you exchanged contact information is actually a very serious issue. You were at least playing at being single. Just as a wedding ring is a target for many predators of married women so too is a wedding ring on a man an enabler of pre-selection for women. 

The main thing is for you to not again put yourself into a situation like this. If this woman contacts you again tell her, you are happily married and she must not contact you again. Then block her anyway you can. This type of thing gets easier and easier to do. You start to rationalize things and moving the boundaries. This IS a boundary issue. A big one.
Time to give up these type of friends, but even more time to give up this life style. You were playing just the tip. Stop that.

Guess what? This buddy of yours now has something on you. He may even use this to his advantage sometime with your wife. So if I were you I would in a very low ket manner tell your wife you have decided it was a bad idea for you to have stayed after she left that night to hangout with your buddy. Tell her about the women and then tell her that in hindsight you felt like you crossed a boundary you wish you had not and that you intend for this never to be crossed again. Do be careful though as indeed she may think there was more to this that there was.

Would you have been ok with your wife doing what you did? Would have been ok if it was your buddy who had his arm around your wife that night? Would you have been ok with her exchangin contact information.

Not trying to beat you up because as things go this was pretty tame stuff, however you were on the edge. Going back to the edge would have a different result. Trust me on this. Get some better boundaries and acoid these situations altogether.

I debated whether you should even mention it to your wife but I am concerned someone will use this against you. Be prepared for her to tell you that she has done this before herself.

Character itself does not make up for poor boundaries. People with good character and knowledge ensure their boundaries. Take this as a wakeup call.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

I would probably have to agree that you should tell her, actually. 
If approached correctly it will do as tobio says, and it will solidify your commitment in your wife eyes, likely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think this is a very tough call because you pulled yourself back from the brink.

Maybe this has been asked already, but what if your wife had been in this situation? Would you want her to tell you or to spare you?


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

tobio said:


> I know with my issues with hubz, what he did (and still does) that really winds me up is decides what information I am privy to dependent on his judgement of if it will benefit me/us or not or if it will hurt me. IMO it is his job as my husband to relay such information then I can tell him if it is an issue for me or not. He doesn't get to be judge and jury on how *I* run my life... God complex much?
> 
> In such things I think you should tell her because you clearly have a problem with boundaries. Heard of accountability? Yes you may well feel you have identified a potential weak spot and can work on it yourself. But think how much more accountable you will be from sharing. She will know and you will have that openness and honesty to police your behaviour and she will know your potential weak spots and you can work on them together.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your input, especially since I see a clear perspective from a women's side. I don't have a God complex (not that you were inferring that) and I'd say we're very split in the area of control. This is not about a control of information. I would love for our relationship to grow from this but I would hate to hurt her when it isn't necessary. 

I believe it is my job to keep her happy. But you're right, it is not my job to filter what information she should know. I do not like being held unaccountable. You made a very good point about sharing information with her to better myself/ourselves. This would be a strong reason for me to tell her what happened. We have grown very much as a couple and while this would be a huge obstacle, it may strengthen our relationship as well. I know I'm not perfect and I'm not trying to be. But I would like to keep this burden off her as well.

I am trying to write this very carefully because I think it may come off wrong. But I am not worried about her finding out through friends. This is something that if I choose to move on, it will. Not because people don't talk but because what happened isn't what will hurt her. I would not be happy if she did the same thing I did, but it wasn't what I did that is going to hurt her either. It was what I was thinking and considering. The arm around her is inappropriate and I would not enjoy seeing roles reversed, but it isn't what is bothering me for the night. Perhaps I have digress from your point, but your other points are much more of a concern for me. 

Just an update and FYI, I have not decided what I will do. You alone have given me a bit more to consider.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> This defintely is a boundary issue. I am just repeating what has been said for emphasis. You put yourself at risk. A married man has no business being another guys wingman. This is exactly yhe scenario we gripe about when it comes to non marriage friendly GNOs.
> 
> I get that you started the night with your wife there and she went home. If the other guy was looking for a wingman you should have left too.
> 
> ...


Again, thank you for your input. I do not consider a wingman or wingwomen a level of unfaithfulness or even the situation I began with unfaithful. But I am aware about how dangerous of a situation it now is. Also the whole arm around the girl isn't really what I'm worried about and even though its not a great picture to share around, it isn't what concerns me.

Now what you say about to learn from this I cannot agree more or emphasize more to myself. You're right the main thing is to never put myself in this situation again. The advice to block this girl out of my life is the right thing to do for me to move on. 

Many of you won't agree but my friend is not the problem. He did not push me in the situation nor is it his responsibility to guard my marriage. I did wrong, and that's it, it was me. The point I could have made a huge mistake wasn't even in the same room/area. But you're completely right when you say its time to give up the life style. Because it is not something I can get use to and let get worse.

You're advice on how to reveal the truth is insightful. It is how I imagine I would bring it up but I am not going to tell her based on my concern that my friend will stab me in the back. Not that its not possible but like I mentioned earlier, it isn't what was observed that is hurtful or that I'm worried about her knowing. 

I truly appreciate your advice on different boundaries and avoiding those situations. I do realize how dangerous of a game I played and I am on the edge and essentially "playing with fire". 

You have given me a lot to think about. It is getting late and I need to get off the computer. I am seriously going to reread and respond to this at a later time. You hit a lot of points that I don't necessarily agree on all of them but I think I need to better evaluate what you said and better articulate my responses and how I feel.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I think this is a very tough call because you pulled yourself back from the brink.
> 
> Maybe this has been asked already, but what if your wife had been in this situation? Would you want her to tell you or to spare you?


alte Dame, it is by far a very tough call for me. And you've hit my considerations right on the head. There have been a lot of other great points made by everyone else, but it comes down to whether I think this will strength our relationship or I need to spare her the pain of what almost happened. It isn't the arm around the girl that bothers me or will ultimately bother her. It is why I put myself in that situation to start. 

I would have to be lying to myself if I said I didn't see it coming. Part of me wanted to see what would happen that night. I learned a great lesson of how much guilt and how much pain I could bring to my wife if something worse happened or if I continue down the path. I do not want that and I have learned that. I am grateful I did not learn it at a worst cost. 

I think what bothers me now is whether I should tell her what happened so I can better myself. Was pulling myself from the "edge" the lesson I needed or do I need to concern her to keep our relationship strong. Her finding out through other means is relevant but not why I am going to tell her. The problem is bigger than "what almost happened" and if I disclose that night to tell her, I will need to address the underlying issues.

Its late and I apologize if I am off topic/rambling or writing incoherent sentences. I will try to re-address this tomorrow. Have a good night.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Raven, I respect the fact you appear to have seriously considered such issues. A lot of people here are talking from either side of the fence, for example my husband had an EA before we married, and Entropy has experience on your side - and some very good insight.

You mention underlying issues. You don't outline what they are but IMO it helps motivate to address issues by being accountable. Also, marital issues are not always as clear-cut as something being entirely down to you - more than likely your wife plays some part in the issues you mention and being armed with the information enables her to be aware there IS a problem and to do her bit to work on things with you.

I'd be interested to hear what you decide to do.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

As would I.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Thank you for your interest and thoughts. I will keep everyone updated and I hope it can be useful for someone else.

For my underlying issues, I think it took this incident for me to realize they need to be addressed. I don't know exactly what bothers me or urges me to act inappropriately. I feel they're along the lines of validation, curiosity, life-style change and self-esteem. 

I think the validation, self-esteem and life-style change reasons are somewhat self-explanatory for why they are an issue, but I would like to elaborate on the *curiosity*. I am not excusing my behavior in any way but trying to give further insight. To start, I have only had two girl-friends (one is my wife). I've dated a couple times in between but my romantic life is basically comprised by my wife. I consider myself an attractive person but I have never really "experimented" or "dated around". I don't wish I slept around nor do I want to right now, but part of me is still left with some"what-ifs" and "how do I know." I love my wife very much and she is an amazing person and we are great compliments to each other but I am still left with a "curiosity". 

Furthermore, some of you may ask, "Why get married in the first place?" My answer is prior to even getting engaged I was aware of these issues and back then they bothered me. But I knew it would be incredibly foolish for me end a relationship with a person I loved so much for the unknown. I could very easily never find a better person. And as I believe then, I find it hard on how sharing this issue is constructive to our relationship. And while many of you are probably thinking, "just grow up", "you've made a commitment", or "you should have thought about this earlier" or etc. You are 100% right that this is something I need to get past but clearly I have a weakness that still need to be addressed. 

And just as I debated before, I am still stuck with a tough decision. Are these issues something my wife needs to know? Part of me would love her support and guidance. I would like to be held accountable and be 100% truthful. But I think everyone can understand how hurtful and how personal this can be for her. This can also shatter her confidence in our relationship while leaving her feeling powerless. This is the last thing I would ever want. How could the truth ever benefit our relationship? I can't think of a good way to address this issue.

Have others found themselves in this situation?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

theRaven said:


> Have others found themselves in this situation?


Just the married guys.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Just the married guys.


Yeah I thought about that and I feel like a fool because I'm sure almost everyone deals with it. But even though I haven't necessarily solved my problem, I have learned a great deal from everyone in this community. I have tasted the bitter taste of pain and damage infidelity came bring. I have learned perspective from both sides of the situation. I have realized what boundaries I need to abide and what lifestyle I have committed myself too. Most importantly, I have realized my weakness and that I need to better myself as a person for a good relationship with my wife.

I am still somewhat contemplating on whether I should approach my wife with any of this. She is happy and I think this will hurt her deeply. I don't believe she needs or deserves to be hurt for something that almost happened. I am not going to ignore or pretend like it never happened, and I will definitely use it as an opportunity to better myself. For now I would like to keep the burden on myself. I am not comfortable with keeping a secret from her but I am less comfortable with the alternative.

I truly appreciate all the support, guidance, and advice I've received. And although I haven't written off telling her, I think my intent have been expressed. I hope I have not disappointed or upset anyone too much. I know to some I am leaning towards the wrong path, but I hope you can understand my intentions. I am not using this experience as an exception but more of a lesson learned of where and what I don't want to be.

I am by no means through with this thread. I will check it regularly for additional advice. I am now a firm believer of this community for its relevancy and importance to maintaining a good life and a good marriage. I cannot think of the words strong to express my gratitude. Thank you.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

theRaven said:


> Boundaries aren't a question here. Arguably a grey area but I know it was wrong for me.


Yes boundries are a question here.

They are THE question.

You need to step yours up. Alcohol, opposite sex, texting the next day, etc etc. Honestly look at this night and tell me, where did you cross the line?

Good on you for recognizing this is destructive behavior. You need to commit to avoiding it in the future, whatever that might mean.

Be true to yourself. Attraction is human nature, you need to develop mechanisms to keep it from being a problem (aka boundries)


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Raven, I'm 55 years old and I still think about all the women who offered and I didn't bang in the last 30 years of marriage. It's just the male nature to want to tag all that want to be tagged. Furthermore, I don't even believe in "monogamy" for males; I think it goes against the natural order of things. BUT, I stood up in a church and made some promises to a woman and I intend to keep those promises.* I will tell you it was toughest in the first 2 years.* After that, you get much better at keeping things under control, but when it's offered, you still hate to turn it down.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Raven, I'm 55 years old and I still think about all the women who offered and I didn't bang in the last 30 years of marriage. It's just the male nature to want to tag all that want to be tagged. Furthermore, I don't even believe in "monogamy" for males; I think it goes against the natural order of things. BUT, I stood up in a church and made some promises to a woman and I intend to keep those promises.* I will tell you it was toughest in the first 2 years.* After that, you get much better at keeping things under control, but when it's offered, you still hate to turn it down.


Sorry I have taken so long to respond. But thank you for the thoughts. I too feel that it does go against our basic instincts and natural drives. It also feels at times that marriage feels like what you can't have and denying yourself. But I just have to remind myself of why its all worth it, and that like you, I made a promise to the ones I love. 

I can't pinpoint why but I find comfort in reading that the first 2 years are the hardest and that it gets better. I imagine the difficulty partially lies in all of the self-control and discipline required to endure the learning process. I still have lingering thoughts about that night and still wonder what would have happened. I'm convinced that it isn't worth the consequences but unfortunately the thoughts still persist...


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

theRaven said:


> Sorry I have taken so long to respond. But thank you for the thoughts. I too feel that it does go against our basic instincts and natural drives. It also feels at times that marriage feels like what you can't have and denying yourself. But I just have to remind myself of why its all worth it, and that like you, I made a promise to the ones I love.
> 
> I can't pinpoint why but I find comfort in reading that the first 2 years are the hardest and that it gets better. I imagine the difficulty partially lies in all of the self-control and discipline required to endure the learning process. I still have lingering thoughts about that night and still wonder what would have happened. I'm convinced that it isn't worth the consequences but unfortunately the thoughts still persist...


Everytime you think about that night, buy your wife some hot sexy lingerie in the $150 range and make her wear it that night. Next time, buy her some more. Repeat as necessary. Pretty soon, you'll quit thinking about that night. In the meantime, you'll have made some good memories of the right kind.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Saki said:


> Yes boundries are a question here.
> 
> They are THE question.
> 
> ...



From the start I knew what my boundaries of right and wrong, what I should or shouldn't do. I knew the line and I deliberately crossed it. It wasn't necessarily that I quested my boundaries but did not hold myself accountable to them. Before this experience I took them for granted but now I see why they are so important to follow.

And you are completely right that I need to step my boundaries up or at least follow them. Boundaries are not necessarily the things I can't do, but its the things I shouldn't do if I want to remain happy in my marriage. I have learned some of the issues and bad situations I can get myself into if I'm not more careful.

I also couldn't agree more on your last paragraph. I am human but boundaries can be a good mechanism for keeping me out of trouble. I'm grateful I didn't have to learn this lesson at a greater cost.

Thank you.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Everytime you think about that night, buy your wife some hot sexy lingerie in the $150 range and make her wear it that night. Next time, buy her some more. Repeat as necessary. Pretty soon, you'll quit thinking about that night. In the meantime, you'll have made some good memories of the right kind.


You are a wise man and I mean that in all seriousness. I respect your perspective and advice. And I know your example is specific, but I get the point. And that is the more I put into my marriage, the better it becomes. And not that I didn't put effort in before, but I think trying a little more here and there has yield some good returns. I will most likely try your suggested example. 

Thanks.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Raven---I have a question for you

Why did your wife go home alone the night you almost got into deep water----Why did she come 2nd to your buddy---who you supposedly HAD TO BE THERE AS A WINGMAN FOR

Do you wear a wedding ring---what does it mean to you---or does it mean NOTHING??????

Do you know the definition of mge., or is mge just a word to you?????

Again--WHY WAS YOUR WIFE PLACED 2nd TO YOUR BUDDY ON THE NIGHT YOU GOT INTO TROUBLE

Had you been a proper moral decent loving attentive H, you would have gone home with her NO MATTER WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO ANYONE ELSE----Does she not come 1st----or are you just so hot for your buddy, that your WIFE has to take a back seat to him, and probably your other friends also---for isn't that the way it is with you?????

----you arn't really into your mge., are you---otherwise---YOU WOULD HAVE GONE HOME WITH YOUR WIFE---and this thread wouldn't even be in existense would it?????


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

On that note, a marriage doesn't just get better on it's own. It takes effort. You need to communicate effectively with each other, as you both change, as your circumstances change. It becomes all too easy to fall into stereotypical roles, to begin to take each other for granted, to make mistakes that are common, but can be easily avoided if you are aware of them (most people aren't). That reading list I posted earlier is a good start on becoming aware, and on how to strengthen and maintain your bond as a couple.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Raven---I have a question for you
> 
> Why did your wife go home alone the night you almost got into deep water----Why did she come 2nd to your buddy---who you supposedly HAD TO BE THERE AS A WINGMAN FOR
> 
> ...


You obviously did not read this entire thread. 

I'm sure you're well intentioned but this is the first post I felt that someone had not listened to most (if any) of my the progressions of the thread. Just about every point you made has been addressed.

You also have a very crude sense of reality. Someone who isn't attached to his wife 24/7 and doesn't make (but realizes) mistakes is someone who is not into his marriage? I don't mean to upset you but this would be the first reply I've felt preached to.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> On that note, a marriage doesn't just get better on it's own. It takes effort. You need to communicate effectively with each other, as you both change, as your circumstances change. It becomes all too easy to fall into stereotypical roles, to begin to take each other for granted, to make mistakes that are common, but can be easily avoided if you are aware of them (most people aren't). That reading list I posted earlier is a good start on becoming aware, and on how to strengthen and maintain your bond as a couple.


I am definitely aware that it will take constant work, and thank you for emphasizing specifics. 

I meant to have mentioned that in my previous post. It may have been filtered out as I try to make things concise.


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## Rihanna (Jun 5, 2012)

theRaven -- I think the advice being offered in this thread is solid except for "jnj express". I think you are trying and this could happen to many people. I am a wife who's husband had an inappropriate texting relationship (not sexting) but it was becoming an EA when he told me about it (I had to ask). We have been together for 15 years and married for 8. We have on child who is 4.

One of the good things about our experience is coming together sexually. We had a very intense sexual relationship early on that included lots of sharing of private fantasies and desires. After we married there were circumstances that drove us apart like illness and family problems. When we had our kid we had other forces that kept us distant and the distance grew and grew. I believe if the right circumstances had presented themselves I could have strayed, except I have better boundaries. If I had I would have recognized what I was doing and made a choice to do it. I think some "good men" like you and my husband have a hard time seeing they are crossing lines because they know they would "never cheat". The only thing missing from our reconciliation is him admitting he was lusting after this woman. I just cannot wrap my mind around him being kind of seductive and testing to see if she would go for him without thinking about sex. But that is his stance.

The reason I am sharing is your concern about the "lust in your heart" aspect of the incident. I think this is important. Marriage is long and you will lust for other women regularly. Your wife should understand this. It doesn't mean you are going to try to fool around it is just human nature. She may have desires and fantasies that she is afraid to share. If she told you she thought about or was tempted by another man how would you react? Learn to understand it in yourself and your wife. I recommend you bring that lusty guy into the bedroom. Share your lusty thoughts with her. I find being included in my husband's private desires makes our relationship more solid and opens the door for lots of erotic interaction. His lusty side is a huge turn on for me. Knowing that part of him makes me feel more secure. I don't expect him to tell me everything. I just feel better knowing there isn't a hidden part of him. And I share private parts of my thoughts with him too.

I suggest finding a way to tell her because you do need to be accountable and she does know you are human and flawed and DOING YOUR BEST, not perfect. This side of you is bound to come out in some other ways and your continuing to hide it will bite you both someday. We are all entitled to our private thoughts, however, yours are leading you down the wrong path and you were thinking with the wrong head. If she can't work through it with you and you can't be yourself with her your marriage is already doomed. It will take time, she will be unhappy, she will be insecure but you will be so much closer that it is worth it. If you need her watching you more closely so you behave better you can save your marriage. A lifetime with one person who is really your best friend is the best thing you can hope for. It can only be satisfying if you are sexually adventuring together. It is clear you need this in your relationship, you won't be able to go the distance without it.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Thank you Rihanna for your thoughts. I appreciate that you have acknowledged my thoughts and consider multiple perspectives in your advice. I completely agree on all the points you've made and I find your perspective very insightful. You have definitely shed light on many of my current thoughts. The thought of kids literally terrifies me right now and the thought has worsened since I've begun thinking about "everything." I know we need to strengthen our relationship in order to properly endure what obstacles the future (specifically kids) will bring.

I'm sorry that you had to endure some of this pain in your own relationship. I'm happy that you have mostly been able to work it through. And just from my perspective about the EA, I think it is possible for him to be texting the other women without the intent on sex. I'm not saying it wasn't a factor or that he didn't contemplate it but in my own instance, it was not what I was seeking. There are a lot of emotional aspects that can be targeted (conscious and unconscious) that he was trying to satisfy that wasn't just along the lines of sex. I doubt this will make you feel any better, but I believe its just human nature, and how handle it is what makes the difference.

I know I'm repeating myself but your advice is very insightful and I feel it is very relevant to what I've been thinking. The lust side is absolutely something I want to further tap into. I think it is an area that while we have progressed in, for at least me I have not opened up completely. I think part of the reason is that she tends to take things very personal and can become defensive. It doesn't turn into an argument but I have yet to find a good way to approach somethings in our romantic relationship. And to what you've suggested, I agree, we both need to understand what we're desiring. From what we've talked about she is really just not as sexual of a person than I am but your right that it needs to be a line of communication that is constantly open and supportive.

I feel like I have slowly addressed some of the underlying issues with her about what I've been thinking about. I think in some way it is me trying to find a way. I don't deny that it would be more beneficial in some ways to be direct about what happened. But knowing the type of person she is, and the further I move past the incident, I have not convinced myself it would be for the best. I think it has been effective for me to address the issues around the instance and that has been so far beneficial. However, I seriously considered your point about our relationship being "doomed" if she cannot move on (if I tell her what happened). This is a very pertinent point of concern. A good reason for me to further disclose.

You have give me a good amount of food for thought (I will re-read and ruminate on your post). Your perspective and advice approach will have me thinking and reconsidering some things. And while I am being very proactive in my thoughts with personal changes; I am re-asking myself how much I am hurting our relationship by not sharing what had happened.


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## Rihanna (Jun 5, 2012)

I am wondering how did you end up on this forum? I am impressed you found a safe sounding board to help you determine the best course to take. Being thoughtful about your actions and empathetic to others will guide to the best decision.

Thank you for sharing you insight about my situation. It has been six months of him being transparent and making genuine effort to repair the problems in our marriage (both of us) prior to this incident.

Have you considered marriage counseling? It sounds like you might need it. It is a good idea to do it before a major problem.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

theRaven said:


> Thank you for your interest and thoughts. I will keep everyone updated and I hope it can be useful for someone else.
> 
> For my underlying issues, I think it took this incident for me to realize they need to be addressed. I don't know exactly what bothers me or urges me to act inappropriately. I feel they're along the lines of validation, curiosity, life-style change and self-esteem.
> 
> ...


I get where you're coming from. I think if you can talk with your wife about these issues openly and with sensitivity, you'll enrich your marriage. Keeping these thoughts to yourself only gives them more power. I'm not saying you should open your marriage. Far from it. That would be a terrible idea. Rather you should acknowledge that from time to time each of you might find a celebrity, a stranger on the street, attractive. You're both married, but not dead or blind. You will find others attractive. So long as you don't act on that attraction and you're mindful of your boundaries, you should be alright.

I like the idea suggested by previous posters - the lingerie, the sharing of fantasies, etc. Think about boudoir photos, couples retreats to a sexy resort, and other ways to spice up your life.

Here's a previous discussion that might be useful to you.
How Do You Overcome Sexual Temptation in A Long Term Marriage.


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## My_2nd_Rodeo (Nov 20, 2012)

Raven

In many of your posts you seem to say that you're still not sure about telling her.

However, it seems to me, you've already made up your mind to move on and NOT tell her. 

For some reason, if you decide the other path, time it well. Don't let it ruin/taint X-mas, holiday's, b-days, etc. for her.

Good luck.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Rihanna said:


> I am wondering how did you end up on this forum? I am impressed you found a safe sounding board to help you determine the best course to take. Being thoughtful about your actions and empathetic to others will guide to the best decision.
> 
> Thank you for sharing you insight about my situation. It has been six months of him being transparent and making genuine effort to repair the problems in our marriage (both of us) prior to this incident.
> 
> Have you considered marriage counseling? It sounds like you might need it. It is a good idea to do it before a major problem.


I am actually very grateful for finding this sound board to help me guide and think my problems through. I'm amazed at the positive support and extremely useful advice. I appreciate that most people are open minded enough to listen to what others say and offer advice that is constructive and not overly judgmental (it is a very judgmental subject).

I have considered counseling, and I still do. I don't deny I have some issues to work with and some professional help would surely do me good. However (and perhaps I could be in denial) but I feel its not out of my control. The event taught me a lot. This community has taught me a lot. And even though I haven't disclosed everything to her doesn't mean I'm ignoring the issue or sweeping it under the rug. (_I'm not saying you were implying that, I'm just speaking in general_).

Part of me thinks counseling is perhaps a bigger step than necessary at this point. As my thoughts develop and progress (which they have been), and as emotions settle from the previous event, I hope I will know whether I need to seek professional help or not.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> I get where you're coming from. I think if you can talk with your wife about these issues openly and with sensitivity, you'll enrich your marriage. Keeping these thoughts to yourself only gives them more power. I'm not saying you should open your marriage. Far from it. That would be a terrible idea. Rather you should acknowledge that from time to time each of you might find a celebrity, a stranger on the street, attractive. You're both married, but not dead or blind. You will find others attractive. So long as you don't act on that attraction and you're mindful of your boundaries, you should be alright.
> 
> I like the idea suggested by previous posters - the lingerie, the sharing of fantasies, etc. Think about boudoir photos, couples retreats to a sexy resort, and other ways to spice up your life.
> 
> ...


Thank you Coffee for your input and thread suggestion. My W and I actually do occasionally share thoughts about what we think of other attractive people. Not to the extend where we make each other insecure, but just sort of yeah "he/she is good looking". Heh, I know for a fact she is in "love" with one particular celebrity but it doesn't bother me. You make very good points about the benefits about being open and not being dead, I appreciate that.

I will definitely be reading that tread you linked to me. I mossy around the threads but I've yet to run into that one. It looks like it'll be VERY useful for me.


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## theRaven (Nov 16, 2012)

My_2nd_Rodeo said:


> Raven
> 
> In many of your posts you seem to say that you're still not sure about telling her.
> 
> ...


My 2nd Rodeo, you are right, I've more or less made up my mind for now. But there are so many reasons on the other side of argument that I'm not sure what I will think in the future. I'm still convinced telling her about what almost happened and what I was thinking about doing isn't beneficial. However, I am aware and trying to address the issues around it. I guess it's a work in progress.

Thank you for the advice about timing. It's partially why I've decided not to tell her for now. It would ruin the holiday season and all the days she's looking forward too. But it is not the reason I haven't said everything either.


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