# Why the affair? I never really got an answer



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Just stuff about needing some closure, it had nothing to do with us, she still loved me but needed to do this.

No sex for me during her affair. Which hurt, of course. 

I felt so... inadequate.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

The brain chemicals of a cheater get high, there is no logic, no reasoning it has nothing to is with you. However, this not an excuse for them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

The answer I've come to is they wanted different. 

He/she just wanted to have sex with someone else. The rest is sugar coating to make it all sound better. Pick your own line, one means as much as another. But in the end, it's just a justification to make them sound less bad.

So if you ever cheat, here's a list. Just pick one at random. (My personal favorite is lettter H. Go for the sympathy card.) 

I wanted sex with someone else because ______________

A) ILYBNILWY
B) I was drunk
C) You didn't give me the attention, s/he did
D) You didn't give me sex
E) I didn't think you'd find out
F) It just happened
G) He/She took advantage of me 
H) I wanted to feel loved  ..((awwwww this one is for sympathy))
I) To spice up our sex life (I've seen this one on here) 
J) I didn't think you'd mind
K) We're soul mates.
L) I needed to know if i still loved you
M) I was drunk, it's not my fault
N) They "get" me
O) It didn't mean anything to me at all. We're just friends


Those are all the BS reasons i've read. Some I heard myself from my FWW. It doesn't matter what fairy tale they told themselves. 

It's all a smoke screen to them just straight up wanting to bang someone else. 

Everyone feels this temptation at some point or another. But if you're willing to act on it, you need a good reason to justify it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Yeah you can reason better with 5 teenagers in love and away from their boyfriends and all technology, than with a cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

She told me it was just a habit. She didn't think about it...????? WTF

Then again, he'd been out of the country for nine months. The ache must have been unbearable.


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## toblkflys (Jun 28, 2013)

How about:
1. I needed to feel needed
2. You haven't made me feel sexy/loved
3. You've changed
4. I thought I could get my needs met with him/her and still continue our relationship

I've heard all four of these. It's all my fault apprently


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

I heard that she felt I didn't love her, need her, that she couldn't make me happy. So she needed to feel important, desired.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

"I was cuckoo."

:crazy:


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## arielucrz (Jul 9, 2013)

The brain chemicals of a cheater get high


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

These are the two big questions I asked my WH right after DDay and am pressing him to answer fully during R. The Whys can be painful and may lead to discussions about vulnerabilities in marriage and WS. The How is SO difficult for me to have unanswered right now because that is, for me, all about morality and conscience. Without the How's, I'm wondering if my WH is either an immoral or insane person. Of course, that's me painting with a rather broad brush, but without his, and subsequently my, understanding of his How, that's all I've got to work with. My WH is a selfish person by nature and now that I only see him 2 to 3 times a week, I can see narcissistic behaviors more clearly. 

I sincerely hope that we can find, through our WS, IC and MC, some answers to the Whys and Hows. I know that I need them to truly reconcile and feel assured that he'll have the tools to avoid betraying me ever again.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

"it was a turn on"

" It had to be done to finish what I had with her"


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> I heard that she felt I didn't love her, need her, that she couldn't make me happy. So she needed to feel important, desired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Broken,

Our WS must have taken the same class. Almost exact reasoning I got.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

GreenThumb said:


> Broken,
> 
> Our WS must have taken the same class. Almost exact reasoning I got.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ridiculous, isn't it? It's funny, if she thought I didn't love or want her, then why did she keep it from me and lie so as not to hurt me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

9 times out of 10 it's because they were bored with their marriage and their life. Affairs are so exciting! As to why they're bored, they never give any thought to that.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> I heard that she felt I didn't love her, need her, that she couldn't make me happy. So she needed to feel important, desired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is probably the closest "general" reason I think you'll hear. But I believe when a spouse steps out, their romantic interest in their own spouse is below a certain level and is due to a number of factors. Goes back to, "women (or men) crazy in love are not bored with the relationship".


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> I heard that she felt I didn't love her, need her, that she couldn't make me happy. So she needed to feel important, desired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I got the same line of crap... 

Basically he made her feel pretty and so she dropped her pants for him... it had nothing to do with you, or you making her happy.. it was all about her being selfish and making stupid decisions.

I also felt mine didn't love me.. since she wasn't showing it, did I run out and find a 'friend'? No... I wasn't feeling too desired while she was cheating, did I get a girlfriend? No... She wasn't making me happy by being so cold... Did I put moves on her attractive sister? Nope...

If things were boring... I've been bored, it's been the same for me too for 30 years.. I try to keep it interesting, but not by sneaking another woman into her bed while she's not home. It takes two to tango.. but three, that's gonna hurt some toes.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

I actually have no desire to know why my wife cheated on me with a lowlife ex-con. I think I know the reason: she is scum. Having to admit to myself that I was stupid enough to marry scum is hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

MattMatt why don't you ask your wife why she cheated?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Matt do you and your wife ever discuss your feelings and questions about the affair? I think she has aspergers if I am remembering right. Can she have a conversation like that with you? 

Thanks
WD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

First off I want to say Awake1 has a nice post and it would pretty cool just to have a long list of lines people have heard.. 

Its a good way to show a newbie that *"Hey we all have heard these lines before, its nothing new"*

It took me a few days of reading to understand what was meant by a *"Play Book"* or *"It's all scripted"*

I heard the following myself.

1. I just don't love you anymore, I'm sorry.
2. We had no chemistry ( Took 19 years and 2 kids for her to figure this one out )


But @Mattmatt 

Those are the only 2 things I ever heard from her before she left. I never really got any real *"Let me sit down and explain this to you, how it all fell apart for me"* story as well. She could have said something in therapy or even now. 
But I got nothing as well. 

It is frustrating because it does put you in a position where your afraid you will fail again because you don't know what you might have done wrong in the first place.

Therapy, Reality and my STBXW own actions towards our children and her own family have shown me its not me..

I even started believing she never really loved me. But the reality is she did. 

I think they all did.. I think they all do. 

I think just a combination of things happen at the right/wrong time that put people in this situation. Something broke them. Like everyone says, these are not the spouses we used to know.

For example let me use my instance..

I had a loving wife that would do anything for me and our kids.. She really did. I can't take that away from her. Sex was not an issue and when she was with me, she gave me attention.

But now as this all fell apart around her. I think part of her is easily manipulated, part of her snapped. She didn't know how to express her issues and did what she did..

When she got caught, she no where to go. No family locally to turn to and be with. She has no friends. 

So now she is stuck with this affair, me breathing down her neck. No place to turn. So she just shuts down.. She not only decides not to speak to me anymore, unless I call her. She shut out her oldest son ( 13 years old ) because she is ashamed and knows he understands. But she also shut out her complete family.. Why ? Because she knows they will tell her WTF are you doing.. She won't go to therapy even though I have very good medical coverage.

I also in hindsight, I don't think the therapist we had was that good either. Which plays a big role also believe it or not. 

Its like having marriage cancer and going to a foot doctor for a treatment.

Personally at least in my situation, knowing my STBXW decently well. I think if she had someone else to fall back on and someone she trusted. I think we might have come out of this eventually. For me I had very good friends at work and at home that would help me make sense of all of this.. My friend Danny in particular is really good at calling me out on stuff and telling me things even I don't want to hear.. But I know he tells me as a friend that loves me and wants the best for me..

I even think if Danny spoke to my Ex she would have listened.. He just is that good at making a point and making sense and seeing things as they are.. He really does say whats on his mind and calls it like it is..

Plus I know this other man and he is a piece of garbage. I'm not saying it because he is the other man. He is just that low life of society. I've come to discover that my STBXW is the best thing he has ever had.. His last GF was a CRACK HEAD.. So you get what I'm saying. End result he wants to keep my good looking wife.. Its the best thing he has ever had.. She makes more money then him and she honestly is an attractive woman for her age.. 

So with all of this he is happy that she is isolated. He wants her alone and away from everyone. So he can keep control..

End result I think it is these types of "Perfect Storms" for many that make people break and shut down..

In the end my STBXW felt she had no choice but to move in with this guy.. Where was she gonna go. She doesn't work enough hours to survive on her own. Yes she makes 45 per hour but you still need the hours.. That was her problem..

She doesn't have anyone with common sense that she would listen to and trust to help her and point her in the right direction. 
She isn't that bright. She is smart enough but not that smart if you get what I'm saying.. 

Her shutting out her family and especially her own kids is indicative of a bigger issue here, that is obvious. But even when I tell her, she just doesn't care because it's me telling her.. She didn't get it in April when I told her she needs to try to fix this with her oldest son and she doesn't get it now when I told her again in July that she has not called or spoken with our oldest since school closed over a month ago. 

So for now until she gets her 55k from the divorce she is stuck with him in that apartment. 

Further I think like many people say. When a woman says its over. Its over.. 
When men say its over, it means it might be over but I can give it another shot if you convince me. 

I think if they knew why the affair, then it wouldn't have happen in the first place. They don't know or know how to express it.

And finally I think we play a part.. Some of us verbally beat up our spouses. Some of us shut down ourselves.. Some of us just won't try to forgive, we want them to wear that scarlet letter forever.. We just don't know how to react ourselves to this as well. 

Now mix all this sh1t together and NOW your suppose to figure out how to keep your marriage.. If it weren't so sad I would laugh. 

Good luck with that.. 

End result that is what I am starting to understand about this whole mess of Sh1t..


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

I got..."You brow beat me for 30 years". Now we never fought, she never ever complained about anything. Soon after she said this she told me "I never want to see you again MFer!" That was Feb of 2012, she lives 5 blocks from me with her now husband (the OM) I haven't seen her since. 
I tried for awhile to figure out what really happened, decided never going to be able to do that. Just let them go.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

Hoosier hour wife was one of those typical passive aggressive people who would rather suffer silently then actually come out and tell you what they are feeling. She didn't want to rock the boat. Her grudges went unexpressed for 30 years until she found someone outside the marriage she could vent to. Bender up taking advantage of that and snagged her from you. 

The problem is, she will do the same thing to him. She's a coward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

Hoosier your wife was one of those typical passive aggressive people who would rather suffer silently then actually come out and tell you what they are feeling. She didn't want to rock the boat. Her grudges went unexpressed for 30 years until she found someone outside the marriage she could vent to. The othrr man ended up taking advantage of that and snagged her from you. 

The problem is, she will do the same thing to him. She's a coward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> Hoosier your wife was one of those typical passive aggressive people who would rather suffer silently then actually come out and tell you what they are feeling. She didn't want to rock the boat. Her grudges went unexpressed for 30 years until she found someone outside the marriage she could vent to. The othrr man ended up taking advantage of that and snagged her from you.
> 
> The problem is, she will do the same thing to him. She's a coward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you figured how to communicate with her effectively?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

workindad said:


> Matt do you and your wife ever discuss your feelings and questions about the affair? I think she has aspergers if I am remembering right. Can she have a conversation like that with you?
> 
> Thanks
> WD
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a horrible feeling she really did have loving feelings for him. So maybe it's best I don't know the truth?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I have a horrible feeling she really did have loving feelings for him. So maybe it's best I don't know the truth?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If I don't see it, it doesn't exist.


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I have a horrible feeling she really did have loving feelings for him. So maybe it's best I don't know the truth?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MattMatt, 

Your mention of your WW having loving feelings for the OM made me think about how each partner in a committed relationship defines "love", "marriage" and "commitment". My WH and I recently had this conversation and are still having it as he explores the "How"s of the A. There are some gaps in how we each define it, specifically "marriage" and "commitment". You know that old saying that when you assume, you make an a$$ out of you and me. Yep...def applies with infidelity  

As you know, I'm struggling with WH's claim that he doesn't have ANY feelings for OW despite four months of intense communication, meetings and physicality. He told me that he said, "I love you" to her, so how does one account for the discrepancy? Honestly, I think my WH's understanding of love is very limited to what brings him pleasure (sex, ego-stroking, etc). At this time, my WH and I don't have the same definitions of "love" as mine is more about a mature, long-term sacramental commitment with sex as an exclusive gift to each other and his is about the impulsive "feel good". That's the biggest hurdle for us to clear right now. The longer I consider whether to D or R, the more clearly I see just how selfish he was/is. 

So, getting back to your question, I'm not sure if my WH said he still has feelings for OW if I'd be happier and satisfied (slightly twisted, no?) or the A would make more sense. Unfortunately, its a lose-lose for us BSs regardless, right? 

Hang in there...I appreciate all the feedback you've given me over the past two weeks.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

GreenThumb said:


> MattMatt,
> 
> 
> 
> As you know, I'm struggling with WH's claim that he doesn't have ANY feelings for OW despite four months of intense communication, meetings and physicality. He told me that he said, "I love you" to her, so how does one account for the discrepancy? Honestly, I think my WH's understanding of love is very limited to what brings him pleasure (sex, ego-stroking, etc). At this time, my WH and I don't have the same definitions of "love" as mine is more about a mature, long-term sacramental commitment with sex as an exclusive gift to each other and his is about the impulsive "feel good". That's the biggest hurdle for us to clear right now. The longer I consider whether to D or R, the more clearly I see just how selfish he was/is.




like you, had my FWW said "I had feelings for him" i would have felt better. 

I meant so little to her she would cast me aside for someone she didn't care about. (all however many of them. I don't remember.)

That's your worth to the wayward: Nothing.

You're the babysitter, the cook, the maid. The ATM, the security, the handyman. Or maybe you're just the roommate to them. 

You're background noise with no volume, a thing to be used as they see fit.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

You turned from me

I didn't feel welcome in my own home

You didn't want to know me

You don't trust me, you never have

You treated me like a child

You do not respect me at all

It felt nice to be desired and wanted, to be treated with respect

He meant nothing to me

It felt nice to be appreciated and wanted

I made a mistake

I fell into something that I deeply regret

It still felt good to keep the fantasy going

It helped me to feel special, needed and wanted – which I hadn't felt for a long time.

I felt wanted and desirable and I hadn't felt that in a while, but there was nothing else there except the fantasy.

He had made me feel good about myself and I didn't want to hurt him.

I was feeling worthless, unloved, unlovable, unattractive and unemployable and it was doing my head in.

I couldn't make me feel better about me and I needed you to help me, but you had your own issues going on.

We had sex because I felt I owed it to him after he was so nice to me, sick isn't it, that I felt I owed a man sex.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

I have never met a person like him before.

You con'd me into marrying you.

We were dysfunctional.

He's just my confidant.

You will always be my priority.

My counselor says I am a runner.

You never loved me the way I did.

You had me bad and you blew it.

You don't fight for me.

- It's all a joke. At least now I can laugh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I have a horrible feeling she really did have loving feelings for him. So maybe it's best I don't know the truth?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would always want to know. No matter how much it hurts. 

Why?

Because to me it's also about making someone who is a deceiver and a liar give an honest answer for a change.


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## Wolf359 (Jun 10, 2010)

"I was so horny, and he was so hot, I could not help my self"
:banghead::wtf:


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

wolf359 said:


> "I was so horny, and he was so hot, I could not help my self"
> :banghead::wtf:


LOL. That would be an exact truth.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GreenThumb said:


> MattMatt,
> 
> Your mention of your WW having loving feelings for the OM made me think about how each partner in a committed relationship defines "love", "marriage" and "commitment". My WH and I recently had this conversation and are still having it as he explores the "How"s of the A. There are some gaps in how we each define it, specifically "marriage" and "commitment". You know that old saying that when you assume, you make an a$$ out of you and me. Yep...def applies with infidelity
> 
> ...


Truth is she said to a mutual friend recently (we were enjoying tea in her garden) "I really love XXXX to bits. But he's a fool to himself."

xxxx being the man who, all those years ago was her lover.

Aw! That makes me feel so f**king special...

So, damn. I guess I knew the answer to my question all along. She had her affair because she loved him. 

Plan B. How does that feel for you? Not so good.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

GreenThumb said:


> MattMatt,
> 
> Your mention of your WW having loving feelings for the OM made me think about how each partner in a committed relationship defines "love", "marriage" and "commitment". My WH and I recently had this conversation and are still having it as he explores the "How"s of the A. There are some gaps in how we each define it, specifically "marriage" and "commitment". You know that old saying that when you assume, you make an a$$ out of you and me. Yep...def applies with infidelity
> 
> ...


My husband and I have had a similar conversation over and over in the past few days. I want him to admit he had feelings for the OW and he denies he did. In his twisted mind feelings mean that he was in love her. I don't think he was in love with her at all. By feelings I mean he enjoyed spending time with her and looked forward to doing it again. It made him feel good to be around her. It's had to believe I have been with this man for 18 years and we can be on such different pages.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

According to my husband he just wanted someone to play blackjack with.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

awake1 said:


> like you, had my FWW said "I had feelings for him" i would have felt better.
> 
> I meant so little to her she would cast me aside for someone she didn't care about. (all however many of them. I don't remember.)
> 
> ...


I feel the same way. I told my husband that if he truly had no feelings for her and did all that to hurt me then I don't want to be with a man like that. That's just cruel! He doesn't get it though.


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I feel the same way. I told my husband that if he truly had no feelings for her and did all that to hurt me then I don't want to be with a man like that. That's just cruel! He doesn't get it though.


Flygirl, 

Now THAT is logic I can understand and a great question to ask a WS. Just spent some time with WH and told him that I need him to seek answers to the "How"s before I can commit to R: 

1) How could you give yourself permission to have an affair? In other words, where in the hell were your morals and conscience? 
2) How could you not think of the consequences, specifically risk losing EVERYTHING (wife, children, respect of family & friends)? 
3) How could you not think of how the A would hurt me even if you felt I didn't love you anymore? (This is really about respect in my eyes) 

He told me that he can't answer the "How"s, that the only thing he can think of is that he was a horrible person who lacked a soul. My response: "That's a blanket statement that does not examine the choices you made." It ironic that he has never identified himself as selfish. He has major introspection (heavy lifting through IC) to explore before MC and R. 

One good event that took place yesterday was he received the sacrament of reconciliation (aka confession). He's been away from a faith and church for at least 20 years. He told me that his spirit was lifted; of course, for believers that would be the Holy Spirit at work. Priest told him that God has already forgiven him. Me? Not so much yet


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Truth is she said to a mutual friend recently (we were enjoying tea in her garden) *"I really love XXXX to bits. But he's a fool to himself."*
> xxxx being the man who, all those years ago was her lover.
> 
> Aw! That makes me feel so f**king special...
> ...


She said that right in front of you?!!!

And you remain married to this insensitive woman for what reason?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Matt, have you ever tried to tell her how you feel about it?

How much you want to know varies from person to person. Me, I wanted to know, but wasn't told anything I couldn't find out for myself.

If she can make comments like the one above, then my guess is that she could discuss it with you if you wanted to. It may put your mind at ease especially since you have deduced a crap answer anyway.

Not trying to be hurtful. Just my .02

Good Luck
WD


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> My husband and I have had a similar conversation over and over in the past few days. I want him to admit he had feelings for the OW and he denies he did. In his twisted mind feelings mean that he was in love her. I don't think he was in love with her at all. By feelings I mean he enjoyed spending time with her and looked forward to doing it again. It made him feel good to be around her. It's had to believe I have been with this man for 18 years and we can be on such different pages.


I doubt you're on different pages. He just wants to minimize his betrayal to make him look better about it all. 

I mean, let's face it, probably 90+% of betrayers if hooked to a "truth machine" at age 90 and asked what was the most exciting thing in their lives would say the first time they betrayed their spouse and had illicit, forbidden sex with the other person. Their hearts beat out of their body, the anticipation level was off the charts. Their skin peeled of their body with that first touch, the first kiss was searing...... 

But to their betrayed they almost always give some vague vanilla answer to somehow make them look like "Yeah, I may have done it, but you're the one for me" crap.


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## beautiful_day (Mar 28, 2013)

I got ...

I don't know why.

I can't remember.

Maybe I just hate women.

Maybe I was in love with two women.

Maybe I just enjoyed sneaking around behind your back. 

Maybe I just wanted to. 

And STILL I tried to reconcile! I felt that if I could just get to the bottom of WHY he did it, then maybe I could prevent it from happening again ... I could fix the problem. It must have made him feel very special to have two women taking so much interest in his every thought. 

After a couple of years of trying to figure it out I realized that he was simply never going to tell me why, and that I could never have any control over the situation. How right I was! He was still seeing her all along. You can never control another persons behavior any more than you can control the weather. You can only control your own.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

beautiful_day said:


> I got ...
> 
> I don't know why.
> 
> ...


And all the while the answer was, "Because I just wanted to".


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I doubt you're on different pages. He just wants to minimize his betrayal to make him look better about it all.
> 
> I mean, let's face it, probably 90+% of betrayers if hooked to a "truth machine" at age 90 and asked what was the most exciting thing in their lives would say the first time they betrayed their spouse and had illicit, forbidden sex with the other person. Their hearts beat out of their body, the anticipation level was off the charts. Their skin peeled of their body with that first touch, the first kiss was searing......
> 
> But to their betrayed they almost always give some vague vanilla answer to somehow make them look like "Yeah, I may have done it, but you're the one for me" crap.


BP, 

Man...your second paragraph is hard to read, digest and accept. I find it hard to believe that a remorseful cheater, namely my WH, would choose the A as the most exciting thing in their lives, second to life changing moments they shared with others that did not have negative consequences and hurt others. Don't you think that the shame that follows somewhat negates the excitement of the A? Perhaps I'm kidding myself.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

GreenThumb said:


> BP,
> 
> Man...your second paragraph is hard to read, digest and accept. I find it hard to believe that a remorseful cheater, namely my WH, would choose the A as the most exciting thing in their lives, second to life changing moments they shared with others that did not have negative consequences and hurt others. Don't you think that the shame that follows somewhat negates the excitement of the A? *Perhaps I'm kidding myself.*


I think you are.

Here's why...

It makes no difference how remorseful or shameful a person might be (or pretend to be). The fact still remains that their betrayal affair was off the charts exciting- but they can never dare admit it. Just too damaging of an admission.

Think about it....

The first few emails/texts/fb messages/conversations where everything starts to germinate. Then the realization of feelings of all sorts and the fact there is now a big secret between the two. Then the flirting, the little games and the thrill of the chase and being chased... The two are contemplating the unthinkable, the idea of forbidden sex together. The planning, the "OMG what if I get caught...". Then there is the sexual buildup and all that before the betrayal is completed. And think of that first hookup- the nervousness, the deep infatuation, the touch of another you have never been with before, the pure lust for the sake of lust... 

Oh yes, it has to be over the top stuff. Then they get caught and have to show how sorry they are..... But they will NEVER forget those firsts with their forbidden lover. never.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I think you are.
> 
> Here's why...
> 
> ...


Hey, I forgot - my all time favorite line from my WS, repeated last weekend and only the second time I've heard it since DDay.

Get ready, it's a classic....

"I wanted it to be you"

Hey, WS! - give me a shot sometime!!!!


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

LostViking said:


> She said that right in front of you?!!!
> 
> And you remain married to this insensitive woman for what reason?


I'm with LV on this one Matt. After reading many of your posts I can't get my head around it either.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Truth is she said to a mutual friend recently (we were enjoying tea in her garden) "I really love XXXX to bits. But he's a fool to himself."
> 
> xxxx being the man who, all those years ago was her lover.
> 
> ...


You're in even more denial than ME, and that is saying something.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Hey, I forgot - my all time favorite line from my WS, repeated last weekend and only the second time I've heard it since DDay.
> 
> Get ready, it's a classic....
> 
> ...


That may be the all-time lame excuse.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> That may be the all-time lame excuse.


This one is great!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> That may be the all-time lame excuse.


*Really just any excuse that there is under the sun to richly perpetrate their jaded perception of self-entitlement!*


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Really just any excuse that there is under the sun to richly perpetrate their jaded perception of self-entitlement!*


Well, it's usually going to be a catchy catchphrase worthy of hollywood.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostViking said:


> She said that right in front of you?!!!
> 
> And you remain married to this insensitive woman for what reason?


Because I love her and I made a promise (not to her) to look after her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Because I love her and I made a promise (not to her) to look after her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand the making a promise part, regardless of to whom you made the promise. Is being married to this woman the only way you can take care of her?
But you say you love her. Are you in IC? Why do you think its healthy to give your love to a woman who considers you plan B?

As to your original question, my STBXH blames me for pretty much everything. I still have moments when I think, geez, I must have been pretty horrible. Did I drive him to lie, betray the family, commit multiple acts of infidelity? Then I take a breath and remember I never had such control over his mind (or his keyboard) He made choices that hurt everyone in our family. He continues to be non-remorseful, non-apologetic, and greedy. He is no longer the man I married.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Because I love her and I made a promise (not to her) to look after her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And what about the vows she took about you and your marriage? 

Seems to be that once those vows are broken they are permanently severed for all sides and yoour promises are no longer valid.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

russell28 said:


> I got the same line of crap...
> 
> Basically he made her feel pretty and so she dropped her pants for him... it had nothing to do with you, or you making her happy.. it was all about her being selfish and making stupid decisions.
> 
> ...


He made me feel pretty....

All it took for her drawers to hit the floor was simple shallow flattery.....

Who in their right mind needs to be flattered so badly they will betray their spouse and break vows to hear it? 

The truth is, she was so ready to drop her panties, it took ALMOST NOTHING to get her to do it....

How hard did you have to work to get her to drop her drawers the first time....I'll bet it took a lot more than a little flattery.....

How pissed do you get running that around in your mind?


the woodchuck


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> And what about the vows she took about you and your marriage?
> 
> Seems to be that once those vows are broken they are permanently severed for all sides and yoour promises are no longer valid.


There's been no affair since then, that was about 15 years ago.

Oh, my promise is still valid. Well, it is to me, at any rate. 

That promise was not made to her but to someone else to look after her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> I understand the making a promise part, regardless of to whom you made the promise. *Is being married to this woman the only way you can take care of her?*
> But you say you love her. Are you in IC? Why do you think its healthy to give your love to a woman who considers you plan B?
> 
> As to your original question, my STBXH blames me for pretty much everything. I still have moments when I think, geez, I must have been pretty horrible. Did I drive him to lie, betray the family, commit multiple acts of infidelity? Then I take a breath and remember I never had such control over his mind (or his keyboard) He made choices that hurt everyone in our family. He continues to be non-remorseful, non-apologetic, and greedy. He is no longer the man I married.


I believe it is, yes.

My wife's problem is that she is not a pathological liar, she is a pathological truth teller.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> He made me feel pretty....
> 
> All it took for her drawers to hit the floor was simple shallow flattery.....
> 
> ...


I over simplify for the sake of drama... She knew the guy in work for a long time before they became 'friends' etc... it reads like a chapter out of that 'not just friends' book. So it wasn't a 'hey you look pretty', 'really? wanna have sex?' type of scenario, but I like hyperbole.

First time I got her to... I was 17, she was 16... it was awkward and we dated for about three months before we went all the way. 

I get pissed at the whole thing, but show me the BS that isn't pissed and I'll show you someone in denial.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

My stbxh says that "if I had just let him help his friend, then he would never had any reason to talk to her again"
And "if it was not for the whole us separating thing, he would never had feelings for OW" it caused her to be 
"the only person in the world who understood what he was going through because they were both being left" 

I said "funny, I was not holding a banana to your head when you $&@?ed her while she was engaged"
"Did I make you feel that too?" Lol

MattMatt,

I am having a hard time with not being able to get any kind of logical answer from stbxh.
I don't know if the "why?"will ever make sense, because if it did then the betrayal prob would not have happened in the first place.
Warped thinking.

What I am doing for closure when I keep asking why? is to just state to my self again their actions to myself, that then keeps me out of the loop of "why?"
And on the here and now of what is.
However if some one is trying R I know that the "why?" Might be needed to be answered more so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I believe it is, yes.
> 
> My wife's problem is that she is not a pathological liar, she is a pathological truth teller.


Except when it comes to telling you the truth apparently. 

Has she ever come out and told you that, if she could have done so, she would have left you for her Plan A man? Why did they break up? 

Had I been in your shoes at that tea, I would have stood up, walked over to the wife and poured my cup into her lap. Then smiled and walked out.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostViking said:


> Except when it comes to telling you the truth apparently.
> 
> Has she ever come out and told you that, if she could have done so, she would have left you for her Plan A man? Why did they break up?
> 
> Had I been in your shoes at that tea, I would have stood up, walked over to the wife and poured my cup into her lap. Then smiled and walked out.


I don't know why she finished her affair. But she did tell me it would be over in a short while and it was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I believe it is, yes.
> 
> My wife's problem is that she is not a pathological liar, she is a pathological truth teller.


And Matt the probem is she knows she can do and say anything and you will never ever hold her accountable.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> And Matt the probem is she knows she can do and say anything and you will never ever hold her accountable.


Well, to an extent. Though I tend now to put my foot down if she oversteps the boundary.

Why did I not call her over her statement of loving her ex AP of all those years ago?

Because I'd have had to have made some explanation to the friend who we were with with and I just thought: "f**k it. I don't need any drama."


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You could have informed her afterward that her continued love for the OM and her statement shows how very little empathy or love she has for you and his little respect too. 

I'd have followed that with offering her a D if she wanted it, no arguing no drama, but you won't be plan B for anyone.

And you wouldn't be betraying your promise as leaving would be her choice.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I don't know why she finished her affair. But she did tell me it would be over in a short while and it was.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Strange. Very very strange. If I remember correctly she told you ahead of time she was going to cheat with this man and went ahead and did it. 

I must ask: at any time before she walked out the door to go be with him, did you express your misgivings and tell her how much this would hurt you. A threat of divorce, anything?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Truth is she said to a mutual friend recently (we were enjoying tea in her garden) "I really love XXXX to bits. But he's a fool to himself."
> 
> xxxx being the man who, all those years ago was her lover.


 Wow, the fact that she would humiliate you as a man, by saying that right in front of you to a mutual friend, does not bode well for your marriage long term. She has little remorse for her cheating, and even less empathy for you, to be able to casually show you such disrespect. This story will not end well for you.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Wow, I can't believe she said that in front of someone much less you..

May I as a genteel southern lady slap her for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You could have informed her afterward that her continued love for the OM and her statement shows how very little empathy or love she has for you and his little respect too.
> 
> I'd have followed that with offering her a D if she wanted it, no arguing no drama, but you won't be plan B for anyone.
> 
> And you wouldn't be betraying your promise as leaving would be her choice.


She doesn't do empathy. She tries, but it's like she is trying to speak a foreign language.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TRy said:


> Wow, the fact that she would humiliate you as a man, by saying that right in front of you to a mutual friend, does not bode well for your marriage long term. She has little remorse for her cheating, and even less empathy for you, to be able to casually show you such disrespect. This story will not end well for you.


Heh! We have been together for 25 years, now.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

darklilly23 said:


> Wow, I can't believe she said that in front of someone much less you..
> 
> May I as a genteel southern lady slap her for you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for the offer.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Anytime, lol...
In the south our hands are kind of rough, that's why we wear those dainty little gloves. 

Oh yeah and I take my tea black 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I remember a guy on here who went by Wrathful. I posted to him about my fiancé back in 1968 that got knocked up by some guy while I was in the Army. We had got engaged when I came back fro Vietnam and after my leave was up I went to Germany and that's when she got knocked up and told me it was my kid. I married her thinking it was mine only to find out later it wasn't. Well the marriage was ended and 40 years went by before we talked again. She contacted me three times in the time span and finally I needed to find out why.

When I finally asked her in 2008, I got every excuse you can throw at someone and not one was valid. No excuse will ever be valid and it's something that I still live with and it's now 2013. There it is. I will go to my grave and still not be satisfied.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She doesn't do empathy. She tries, but it's like she is trying to speak a foreign language.


ANd why are you still with this woman?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

PreRaphaelite said:


> ANd why are you still with this woman?


He promised someone he would take care of her. Apparently she cannot take care of herself.

Except when she decides to cheat, then she is very independent.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostViking said:


> He promised someone he would take care of her. Apparently she cannot take care of herself.
> 
> Except when she decides to cheat, then she is very independent.


She is very independent. And very clever with a high IQ.

And yet she became a hysterical mess one day when she got lost walking down our street to our house. The problem? A neighbour a few doors down had painted their gate a different colour and that completely changed her perception of our street. From being a benign, friendly place, that she recognised, it became a place that was alien, dangerous and scary to her. When she got to our house, she had difficulty recognising it. We have lived here ten years.

When she gets like this it worries me because I don't like to see her upset.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

The point I'm trying to steer you to is that here it is 15 years after her affair and you still have no closure. 

Why would an intelligent man, who leads a fairly modest and quiet life, needto come onto a forum full of hurt angry people? 

Because he is hurt and angry himself, and he has never dealt with that dark time of his life. We all get you love your wife and have this White Knight need to protect her, and we all admire your willingness to do so despite the ghastly way she treats you. But you are not going to get any closure by just talking about it. 

Are you afraid she will freak out and hurt you or herself if you dare show any anger toward her and what she did? Does her aspergers cause her to be so volatile that you must spend the rest of your life walking on eggshels around her? Is this the way you want to live?

Having aspergers does not give a person the right to abuse or ride roughshod over others. It does not give them an excuse to be callous and cruel. The way you describe your wife is that she comes across as rude and thoughtless. I'm sorry, but I know one or two individuals who have full-blown autism, and they are the most polite, kindest individuals you would ever want to meet. Not a trace of guile in them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostViking said:


> The point I'm trying to steer you to is that here it is 15 years after her affair and you still have no closure.
> 
> Why would an intelligent man, who leads a fairly modest and quiet life, needto come onto a forum full of hurt angry people?
> 
> ...


That politeness, the kindness, without guile? That's my wife, also, most of the time, too.

It does get a little confusing to be honest.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I've posted something along the lines of what LostViking just did more than one Matt.

Aspergers means that many of the interpersonal relational skills most of us innately have aren't there naturally. It doesn't mean that they are incapable of learning them. Your wife may unknowingly do things that hurt you, and that you can accept _once_. Because after that she should be told that it does hurt you, and that you won't tolerate disregarding you. She's only continuing this _because you let her._


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Matt forget about the so called "closure", believe me man, it doesn't exist.

Focus instead of who you are without her in your life,


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

woodchuck said:


> he made me feel pretty....
> 
> All it took for her drawers to hit the floor was simple shallow flattery.....
> 
> ...


mega!!


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

6301 said:


> I remember a guy on here who went by Wrathful. I posted to him about my fiancé back in 1968 that got knocked up by some guy while I was in the Army. We had got engaged when I came back fro Vietnam and after my leave was up I went to Germany and that's when she got knocked up and told me it was my kid. I married her thinking it was mine only to find out later it wasn't. Well the marriage was ended and 40 years went by before we talked again. She contacted me three times in the time span and finally I needed to find out why.
> 
> When I finally asked her in 2008, I got every excuse you can throw at someone and not one was valid. No excuse will ever be valid and it's something that I still live with and it's now 2013. There it is. I will go to my grave and still not be satisfied.


Hey 6301 - thanks for putting it on the line over there, despite the sh!t that went down and the social upheaval of the day it can't have been an easy gig. And despite that little bit of empty space where answers can never be found I hope you have had a good life so far with plenty left in the tank....:smthumbup:Horizon


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## r0r0bin (Jul 13, 2013)

You need nothing to know why because whatever the reason is, you still love this woman that you promise to someone you will take care of her. You have unconditional love for her so no need to ask about it. Good luck with that love.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

morituri said:


> Matt forget about the so called "closure", believe me man, it doesn't exist.
> 
> Focus instead of who you are without her in your life,


After 25 years I honestly don't think I could do that. But I do understand what you are saying. Thanks for the comment! I was thinking about you the other day. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

r0r0bin said:


> You need nothing to know why because whatever the reason is, you still love this woman that you promise to someone you will take care of her. You have unconditional love for her so no need to ask about it. Good luck with that love.


Thank you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

*Re: Re: Why the affair? I never really got an answer*



Woodchuck said:


> He made me feel pretty....
> 
> All it took for her drawers to hit the floor was simple shallow flattery.....
> 
> ...


:iagree:

From all my real life experience and reading various infidelity support forums like this, I've come to an inescapable conclusion: Whoever said "Flattery will get you nowhere" is completely full of sh!t. 

From what I've seen, that's all it takes to get into a persons pants. Its so very, very easy to be Prince Charming or Miss Wonderful. Just feed their ego and they will do absolutely anything for you. They can destroy their marriage for you and flush their family down the drain. Just flatter them and watch them swoon.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Did you ever get an apology from her and OM Matt?

I seem to recall you mentioning that she said something along the lines of "It must have been awful for you."

That is more of a statement of fact than an apology. Did she *ever* realise how much she hurt you?

Did the OM?

Did your near PA ever bring home to her how 'awful' it was?

Her medical condition aside, what is there to stop her doing it again should OM express an interest? After all you mention that fairly recently she thought he was 'lovely'.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

*Re: Re: Why the affair? I never really got an answer*



MattMatt said:


> She doesn't do empathy. She tries, but it's like she is trying to speak a foreign language.


Mattmatt,
You've learned the hard way

"If they cheat with you, they will cheat ON you"

You "niced" her out of her affair, did you not? It's no wonder she has no remorse about her cheating. She's a self-entitled serial cheater. You were the OM when she cheated on her husband with you. Then she married you and then cheated on you. You may have stopped this affair, but with no consequences, how long before she cheats again? Has she gone to counseling for her serial cheating? I sincerely wish you luck as you attempt R.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Because I love her and I made a promise (not to her) to look after her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> There's been no affair since then, that was about 15 years ago.
> 
> Oh, my promise is still valid. Well, it is to me, at any rate.
> 
> That promise was not made to her but to someone else to look after her.


Maybe it was his revenge for cheating with his then wife ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I believe it is, yes.
> 
> My wife's problem is that she is not a pathological liar, she is a pathological truth teller.


the only time you knew about her affair was when she told you about it. go figure Matt


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## Joseph5 (Jul 13, 2013)

awake1 said:


> The answer I've come to is they wanted different.
> 
> He/she just wanted to have sex with someone else. The rest is sugar coating to make it all sound better. Pick your own line, one means as much as another. But in the end, it's just a justification to make them sound less bad.
> 
> ...



Well isn't that amazing. My wife just had an online sexual affair using Skype and she told me several of these.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Joseph5 said:


> Well isn't that amazing. My wife just had an online sexual affair using Skype and she told me several of these.


We haven't heard *"I'm entitled to it!*" yet (or have we?). In any case this was never said to me but oh so clearly implied. As other wise TAMers pointed out it smacked of entitlement. And it was. 

Sorry to hear that Joesph5 - they just throw it out there like cotton candy and hang the consequences because it's your fault anyway. Not sure if you are a first timer but all the best anyway.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I've said this to you before Matt, and I'll keep saying it until it penetrates that thick tea-stained skull of yours...

Your wife's Aspergers had nothing...

nothing....

....to do with her cheating on you. She did the same thing to you that she did with her first husband, when she cheated on him with you. She is a serial cheat Matt. That flippant remark she made at the tea party tells me that the OM is still fresh in her mind. Why else would she bring him up in polite conversation knowing the mere mention of his name would hurt you? 

Because she doesn't get it Matt. And she never will. The only thing that keeps her from continuing to cheat on you is her arthritis. 

I love ya Matt. I truly do. But you need to go to work for a research laboratory that studies migraines. You induce headaches among others faster than anyone I have ever encountered on this forum.


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## r0r0bin (Jul 13, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


Bang it harder .. lol


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