# Question: Stay married ffor the kids?



## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

My husband and I have been married for 5 years, we have a 3 year old and a 4 year old. Over the years we’ve had our ups and downs. My husband has always told me he felt like something was missing in our marriage, but could never put his finger on it. I always thought he had issues connecting with people because he was sexual abused when he was young. My husband cheated on me shortly after the younger daughter was born. It was a sexual affair, no emotional connection. It took us about 2 years to get back to normal. We were happy, things were going well, I trusted him again and I felt like we were past the affair. Because of the recent affair I had software on the computers to monitor activity. I recently went out of town for a few days and returned to find out my husband tracked down his old high school girl friend. I read emails exchanged between the two and I was overwhelmed with hurt. He said in his emails he had been looking for her on and off over the years. He said he was looking for her forgiveness for how he treated her years ago. Also, felt he was still in love with her after all these years. He felt he needed to figure things out, whether he should seek a relationship with “her” or try harder in his current marriage. He told her that our marriage has improved over the years, but has always felt something was missing between him and I, but something he thought they might still have. I confronted him, told him things were over between us. He tried to tell me this was something he needed to figure out himself, if I would have stayed out of his business I wouldn’t have been hurt. He moved out and was going to see what would happen between his ex-girlfriend and him. He met with his ex-girlfriend and the sparks were still there. But, he realized quickly that he did not want to leave his family and me. He told me he ended things with her, but they will stay in contact via email holidays etc. He agreed to go to couple counciling. Im scared he is still talking to her, and one day he will leave me for her. He still tells me something is missing between us, but wants to try to make things better rather than explore what could be with his ex and him. I don’t know what to do with the information. Im confused and hurt.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

To answer the title question, no. Don't ever just stay for the kids. Your husband sounds like he lives in Never Never Land.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NicNic (Oct 2, 2014)

Wow...my heart was breaking for you reading your story  
I'm sorry to say it but your husband isn't happy...and in turn he is hurting you.
Would you really be ok staying with him knowing that he's always looking out for something/someone else :/
<3


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mtngirl2014 said:


> I don’t know what to do with the information.


You divorce him; for being a serial cheater and a non-remorseful one at that.

You're children will be better off than having to watch this tragedy repeat in the future when they can understand what's going on.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

When you have a husband who says throughout your marriage that something is missing, and that has led him to two affairs now, you need to listen to his actions. He really, really, really means it when he says something is missing...his integrity.


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

I know that I cannot stay married just for our daughters. I believe it would be unhealthy in the long term. I guess, I hold onto hope through couple therapy are marriage will be rebuilt. But, the logic side of my brain says we need to give up and I deserve better. I grew up in a broken home, therefore I seem to try harder to keep the family together. My husband's mother was married 5 times, so he feels family is the most important yet continues to hurt me. He believes if I never found out he would of processed his thoughts and feeling and decided to stay in the marriage. We have a therapy session next wk. Is there hope? Can I let go of the fear? My heart tells me to try harder, my brain tells me to give up now he will not change until he loses everything. His daughter are his world.... the though of not seeing them everyday kills him.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

I'm so sorry you're here. You will get alot of good advice coming your way, and you need to listen to it. 
Your husband is a real piece of work. He's had 2 physical affairs (that you know about), and now he's telling you that he's going to stay in contact with the most recent one on holidays? yeah ok. I'm guessing you swept the first affair under the rug, and therefore he understands that there are no consequences for him doing whatever he wants to whomever he wants. You need to stand up for yourself. There's a common saying around here that says you cannot "nice" someone out of an affair. And boy is it true. There's another one that says you have to be able to be prepared to end your marriage in order to save it. I think this is where you are now. He obviously has no respect for you. He feels no remorse for anything he's done. You need to play hardball at this point and show him you are serious. If you sweep another one of his affairs under the rug, he will keep going. 
So has he been remorseful? Do you have all his passwords to social media, email, etc? Has he given you complete access to his cell phone? Have you checked his text and call logs?


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

norajane said:


> When you have a husband who says throughout your marriage that something is missing, and that has led him to two affairs now, you need to listen to his actions. He really, really, really means it when he says something is missing...his integrity.



I total agree!!! That's what I told him!


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mtngirl2014 said:


> He told me he ended things with her, *but they will stay in contact via email holidays etc.* He agreed to go to couple counciling. *Im scared he is still talking to her, and one day he will leave me for her.* He still tells me something is missing between us, but wants to try to make things better rather than explore what could be with his ex and him. I don’t know what to do with the information. Im confused and hurt.


mtngirl,

In addition to his cheating, he is profoundly disrespecting you. It's as though he's doing you a favor to allow you to reconcile with him. He'll continue to contact her on holidays? Please, find the courage to divorce him because you're right; if he doesn't leave you for her it will be someone else.

You deserve better. Keep telling yourself that. Find your anger. Use it to fuel your resolve. There's a better future waiting for you.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

mtngirl2014 said:


> My husband and I have been married for 5 years, we have a 3 year old and a 4 year old. Over the years we’ve had our ups and downs. My husband has always told me he felt like something was missing in our marriage, but could never put his finger on it. I always thought he had issues connecting with people because he was sexual abused when he was young. My husband cheated on me shortly after the younger daughter was born. It was a sexual affair, no emotional connection. It took us about 2 years to get back to normal. We were happy, things were going well, I trusted him again and I felt like we were past the affair. Because of the recent affair I had software on the computers to monitor activity. I recently went out of town for a few days and returned to find out my husband tracked down his old high school girl friend. I read emails exchanged between the two and I was overwhelmed with hurt. He said in his emails he had been looking for her on and off over the years. He said he was looking for her forgiveness for how he treated her years ago. Also, felt he was still in love with her after all these years. He felt he needed to figure things out, whether he should seek a relationship with “her” or try harder in his current marriage. He told her that our marriage has improved over the years, but has always felt something was missing between him and I, but something he thought they might still have. I confronted him, told him things were over between us. He tried to tell me this was something he needed to figure out himself, if I would have stayed out of his business I wouldn’t have been hurt. He moved out and was going to see what would happen between his ex-girlfriend and him. He met with his ex-girlfriend and the sparks were still there. But, he realized quickly that he did not want to leave his family and me. He told me he ended things with her, but they will stay in contact via email holidays etc. He agreed to go to couple counciling. Im scared he is still talking to her, and one day he will leave me for her. He still tells me something is missing between us, but wants to try to make things better rather than explore what could be with his ex and him. I don’t know what to do with the information. Im confused and hurt.


I think you have to decide what's right for you. Your children are young and that presents several sets of problem. They may in the long run be better off if you D your WH. The odds on him being a faithful and loving H and father are not so great. Growing up with daddy disrespecting mommy and failed R may be worse than ending the marriage. In my case my youngest son had an emotional breakdown when my WW went off on me one time and demanded a D. The hurt he went through tore my heart apart. I decided to keep the peace in my household for his sake only. Whether that was the right thing I don't know but emotionally it kept him from going off the deep end. BTW he was 13 at the time. Riding it out until college age is a lot shorter than with small children as you have.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

mtngirl2014 said:


> I total agree!!! That's what I told him!


Then you must realize that MC is not going to fundamentally change who he is: a human who acts without integrity and then blames you for finding out about what he's doing behind your back with other women.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

Also, you need to ensure that his affair with the exgf is really over. Going to MC while he's still with her in any way is a complete waste of time. Ask me how I know...


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

All of this would be easier if we didn't have children.... I know I would of divorced him the 1st time. However, my children are what makes me try harder, but part of me feels like im the only one trying. He is physically there everyday, but emotionally he is not. The 1st affair there was remorse. The 2nd time was not sexual, it was only emotional, but is there really a difference? The 2nd emotional affair he believes he didn't do anything wrong because it was sexual. So, there is really no real remorse. He said sorry, but expects me to get over it and only discuss the issue in therapy. His phone is now locked, because he says he is tired of being monitored and controlled. I guess I need the extra push.... to say I want a divorce.... or do we try harder and hopefully come out stronger than before?


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

stunned said:


> Also, you need to ensure that his affair with the exgf is really over. Going to MC while he's still with her in any way is a complete waste of time. Ask me how I know...


I agree... that's what I told him last night. I tried to ask him if he is still talking to her because if he is then its over and I do not want to waste my time going to MC. Our marriage will not work if he is talking to her. He tells me he is not talking to her but how am I supposed to believe him?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mtngirl2014 said:


> He tried to tell me this was something he needed to figure out himself, if I would have stayed out of his business I wouldn’t have been hurt.


 He just told you that your marriage is none of your business, that he feels no guilt cheating behind your back, that only his needs really matters, and that you should be happy being his plan B until he finds better.



mtngirl2014 said:


> He moved out and was going to see what would happen between his ex-girlfriend and him. He met with his ex-girlfriend and the sparks were still there. But, he realized quickly that he did not want to leave his family and me. He told me he ended things with her, but they will stay in contact via email holidays etc.


 He told you here that she was not ready to commit to him, and that it would be convenient for him if you would stick around as he continues to contact and pursue this other woman. You cannot possible think that this is a good idea for you.

He is a serial cheater that has no remorse for his cheating. He has no empathy for you, and does not care about the happiness of you or your children. He uses the children as a tool to keep you in the marriage, but in truth the children would be better off not living in such an unhealthy household. My parents divorced when I was young, and things got better for me not worse as the daily drama of their marriage went away allowing both of them to focus more of their time on us as their children. This marriage will not last as he will leave you eventually. Divorce him now and get it over with while you are still young enough to find someone that actually wants to be your husband.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mtngirl2014 said:


> So, there is really no real remorse. He said sorry, but *expects me to get over it and only discuss the issue in therapy. **His phone is now locked, because he says he is tired of being monitored and controlled.* I guess I need the extra push.... to say I want a divorce.... or do we try harder and hopefully come out stronger than before?


mtngirl,

If you came here to validate your decision to stay with him, I'm afraid that's not going to happen from 95% of the posters on here. Children or not.

Every post you make; further describing his arrogance, disrespect, and non-remorse is a testament to what you should do.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

mtngirl2014 said:


> I agree... that's what I told him last night. I tried to ask him if he is still talking to her because if he is then its over and I do not want to waste my time going to MC. Our marriage will not work if he is talking to her. He tells me he is not talking to her but how am I supposed to believe him?


Oh you don't believe him. At all. If he's still involved then you can be sure that pretty much everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. You have to prove him to be not lying. You do that by checking his text and call logs. By putting a VAR in his car and making sure he's not talking to her while in the car. The VAR also usually reveals if he has a burner phone. If he has an iPhone there are ways to recover deleted texts and you can verify that he is not deleting anything. 
You need to try to remain calm and composed while this surveillance is going on. The more he suspects you're watching him, the deeper he will take it and then it will be harder to catch him. 
You said that this affair wasn't physical. How do you know that? You were out of town for a few days. Anything could have happened. Never underestimate the cheater. I would have never guessed that my wife would ever have possibly thought to get a burner phone and lie so craftily about everything. Boy was I wrong. 
Everything you thought you knew about relationships, marriage, and fidelity is about to change. But there are really good people here willing to help you. Listen. Learn. And execute.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

Sunning: thank you! Can you tell me what is a VAR? Also how do you retrieve deleted text? Is there a way to unlock a locked phone?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

A VAR is a voice activated recorder. Perfect for catching conversations. 

That locked phone is a big problem. Can you get the records?


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

VAR = Voice Activated Recorder. Also known as the cheater's worst enemy. There is a user here named Weightlifter who is THE MAN when it comes to surveillance. Read his evidence gathering post here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html
Get one. Today.

I guess you need to really think about what your plan is. Let's suppose he is still in contact with her. Is that your dealbreaker? He's had AT LEAST two affairs (and let's be honest, it's probably more). He is not remorseful at all. He still has not given you access to Facebook, email, etc? You said he has a code on his phone that he won't tell you. This is all completely unacceptable. If he's not doing anything wrong, then why the secrecy? In a marriage there is no expectation of privacy, and certainly no secrecy. When my wife was still in "the fog" of her EA, she put a code on her phone (that I caught within an hour). She said "I need my secrets". Late at night when it's really quiet in the house, you can still hear the echoes of my response to that nonsense. 
You need to strengthen your backbone. Stop letting him disrespect you by keeping these secrets. With his cheating history, everything about him should be an open book. Passwords to everything, access to his phone, etc... If he doesn't want to comply, then you need to figure out what you are going to do about it. Like I said before, you need to be willing to end your marriage in order to save it. Talk to an attorney. Find out your rights. "Accidently" let him find this out. Let him know you are serious about not being a pushover anymore, and that if he still wants to be a part of the family, he needs to comply to your needs and wishes. If he sees you're talking to a lawyer about divorce and still doesn't give you what you need, then honestly you're probably better off without him.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Has he given you his phone to look at? Does he let you read his emails? Did he send a No Contact letter? You've earned the right to verifiable proof that the A is over.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

mtngirl2014 said:


> I know that I cannot stay married just for our daughters. I believe it would be unhealthy in the long term. I guess, I hold onto hope through couple therapy are marriage will be rebuilt. But, the logic side of my brain says we need to give up and I deserve better. I grew up in a broken home, therefore I seem to try harder to keep the family together. My husband's mother was married 5 times, so he feels family is the most important yet continues to hurt me. He believes if I never found out he would of processed his thoughts and feeling and decided to stay in the marriage. We have a therapy session next wk. Is there hope? Can I let go of the fear? My heart tells me to try harder, my brain tells me to give up now he will not change until he loses everything. His daughter are his world.... the though of not seeing them everyday kills him.


 There is a difference between moving on and moving forward, for yourself you have to figure which direction you are prepared to accept as well as the end outcome of the matter based on your choice. Most relationships can be fixed with focused effort and whatever excuses your husband has brought up about his affair must be dealt with, and this is a task for him since you know what you feel and know it felt wrong your right to assume whatever his actions show you and your subsequent feelings thereafter.

I read once that you can't dislike or hate your ex while also co-parenting children together. I can't say I agree to this entirely since the cause of discontent was from your spouses selfish behavior. You can both be parents who are separated but under no circumstances should you hide what caused the separation and depending on their ages discuss what is happening to them in an appropriate manner as a means of keeping them safe from harm. Certain groups would suggest this to be counterproductive or irresponsible but children, and adults as well, respond to truthfulness long term better than false statements, empty promises or excuses. I am often asked of many things from my children and instead of saying the traditional "We'll see" or "Maybe" or whatever variation people seem to use I tell them the truth, explain the why's and what's and tell them that my best efforts will be used to accommodate their requests. More often than not I'm afraid I can't fulfill their expectations but with a sense of understanding and communication the impact of this disappointment is very low, and sometimes not at all.

Why should your Daughter's or Husband be treated any different. He seems, by your statements, to begin regretting his childlike selfishness and if you desire should reward that regret with the consequences of the truth, his actions alone began this process, and you'll proceed accordingly. Ignoring the possibility of R for a moment you may wish to install the same demands as if you wanted to get back together. Go transparent, detach from his AP, honesty, commitment and respect to you, support his responsibilities. By doing this he'll be providing a environment and example of good morals for the children and if, and only if you want to, you feel it is genuine that you make a decision; Move forward or move on!


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

Openminded said:


> A VAR is a voice activated recorder. Perfect for catching conversations.
> 
> That locked phone is a big problem. Can you get the records?


Thank you! I will get one today. No, he has me locked out of his sprint phone account. he wont use the home computers. I want to catch I want to catch him, because if I do its over.
How can I get into his locked phone and account?


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Has he given you his phone to look at? Does he let you read his emails? Did he send a No Contact letter? You've earned the right to verifiable proof that the A is over.


ALL answers are NO!!!!! He is giving me no reason to trust him, besides the fact he is here. He said he had the chance to leave, move out which he did but he decided he wants to be with his family. In his eyes by him being here and going to couple counciling that should be enough. Other than that he wants me to pretend everything is great! He feels he made his choice to stay and I should be happy and let go. He understands its going to take time to heal, but only wants to talk about stuff in therapy.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I'd offer this advice:

1) Your issue is not with this ex-gf or any other affair partner(s) of his. It's with him. He has flat-out told you something is missing, and shown you he feels entitled to go out and find that missing thing elsewhere. Stop worrying about whether he is in touch with ex-gf or seeking others. He IS, and...

2) ...he's fully and completely disrespecting you for wanting it to stop. Telling you it's none of your business is the exact opposite of what marriage is all about. Wake up and see that. You don't need any other reason to end a relationship beyond that. You don't need a smoking gun, this is more. This is a fundamental belief, attitude, approach, and method he feels is OK to have in your marriage. Really? I doubt you share this view. 

3) Stop the madness, the investigation, in trying to catch him. You already know, eventually, you can and will, somehow catch him. it may takes days, weeks, months, or years -- but you will, eventually. But really, what's the point? Just so you will have the 'push' you need to do what you alrwady know is right...? Save yourself the time, miney, energy, and added heartache and cut to the chase. You don't trust him, and for very, very good reason -- because he's proven on more than one occassion that he is not be be trusted, and has no interest nor intention of changing that fundamental. Period.

4) Stay for the kids? With this type of person setting examples on how they are to be raised? So that you can live the rest of your days monitoring, chasing, spying, and worrying? So that you will be further linked and embedded into his finances, relationships, messes, and issues? Start your own, better, honest, healthy life. 

Not once did I read "and yet I truly love this man"... nor "but know he truly loves me". Very telling, imho.

Run.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

mtngirl2014 said:


> ALL answers are NO!!!!! He is giving me no reason to trust him, besides the fact he is here. He said he had the chance to leave, move out which he did but he decided he wants to be with his family. In his eyes by him being here and going to couple counciling that should be enough. Other than that he wants me to pretend everything is great! He feels he made his choice to stay and I should be happy and let go. He understands its going to take time to heal, but only wants to talk about stuff in therapy.


Would he have the same attitude if you were the one who was contacting exes, seeing them while he was out of town, and "figuring out" if you wanted to stay or not? Would he pretend everything was great after you had an affair? Would he be happy if you "made the choice to stay" after an affair and let it go?

Don't buy into his BS.


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

So, I'm finding Im lost for word to tell my husband he is not giving me what I need in order to fix this married. Im trying to make it to our first therapy session Thursday next week. But until then I feel I need to try to catch him if he is still communicating with the affair person. Also, trying to find the words to express what I need from him.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

mtngirl2014 said:


> ALL answers are NO!!!!! He is giving me no reason to trust him, besides the fact he is here. He said he had the chance to leave, move out which he did but he decided he wants to be with his family. In his eyes by him being here and going to couple counciling that should be enough. Other than that he wants me to pretend everything is great! He feels he made his choice to stay and I should be happy and let go. He understands its going to take time to heal, but only wants to talk about stuff in therapy.


All answers are NO because you are letting him tell you no. I'm sorry but I have to believe something is still going on.
Let's pretend for a second that he has never cheated on you. Just the behavior he is displaying now with all the secrecy is a dealbreaker for alot of people. Factor in his history and it is ludicrous how he is acting. DO NOT STAND FOR IT. 
DEMAND that he give you access or tell him to leave. 
Your husband is a serial cheater. He has never had to answer to any consequences so he has no reason to stop. Is this how you want to live? You deserve so much better. 
It took me quite a while to SERIOUSLY consider divorce. I mean, it's easy to say "I'll divorce you if you don't do (whatever)", but to REALLY mean it, to actually get a consultation and learn your rights, takes a much different attitude. I think you need to start going in that direction. You are only going to keep getting hurt. Stop letting him dictate the terms of your reconciliation. He cheated. YOU set the rules from now on. If he doesn't like it, he's free to leave and you'll have divorce papers for him.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Uh-huh, once, my ex told me once I should be happy he comes home at night. Funny, I didn't feel so happy.

The thing is, his multiple actions caused your justified lack of trust. He does not get to dictate how or when any recovery occurs. Those are your choices. Please, bring that up in counseling. I also hope you are going to a counselor that specializes in infidelity. There are counselors who believe and practice rug-sweeping to get over infidelity. IMHO that only breeds more resentment and everything falls apart.

So take control. Tell him his mere presence is NOT enough to regain trust. Tell him what you need. I don't know when your next counseling session is, but if you need support I don't see why you can't wait for the session. That's your call. This should all be your call.

I am sorry you are here, but you will get through this. And you are not alone.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Guess I type slowly because I missed the more recent posts.

Next Thursday is not so long.
Is what you may or may not find between now and then going to change anything?


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

2xloser said:


> I'd offer this advice:
> 
> 1) Your issue is not with this ex-gf or any other affair partner(s) of his. It's with him. He has flat-out told you something is missing, and shown you he feels entitled to go out and find that missing thing elsewhere. Stop worrying about whether he is in touch with ex-gf or seeking others. He IS, and...
> 
> ...


Thank you very much! This is the type of advise I need. I lost my father at a very young age, which I now find myself having a hard time letting go when I know its truly what I need to do.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

mtngirl2014 said:


> ALL answers are NO!!!!! He is giving me no reason to trust him, besides the fact he is here. He said he had the chance to leave, move out which he did but he decided he wants to be with his family. In his eyes by him being here and going to couple counciling that should be enough. Other than that he wants me to pretend everything is great! He feels he made his choice to stay and I should be happy and let go. He understands its going to take time to heal, but only wants to talk about stuff in therapy.


No, no,no,no,no,noooooo. DO not accept this, it is a mirage of crap. With all the cold and stoic strength you can muster demand otherwise. NO, no,no. No one here needs to tell you why this answer is the only one you should have for him, you posting it enough is all the push you need. Now, hit Control+Alt+Delete, punish his resistance with truth. If he refuses, you have his desire and your answer. And remember to delete the History on your phone and Computer whilst visiting this and or other places, Waywards like to snoop too.


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

stunned said:


> VAR = Voice Activated Recorder. Also known as the cheater's worst enemy. There is a user here named Weightlifter who is THE MAN when it comes to surveillance. Read his evidence gathering post here:
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html
> Get one. Today.
> 
> ...




Thank you for your knowledge, I know I need to end it. I guess I've been holding onto the hope through couple therapy he would wake up and change. However, that is probably false hope.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OP, you do not have to rush any decision. In fact, its probably better if you don't. Honestly, take your time with this. Keep the counseling session, maybe go see an attorney to find out where you stand. Right now you are hurting and you need to act from a position of strength, not pain.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

mtngirl2014 said:


> So, I'm finding Im lost for word to tell my husband he is not giving me what I need in order to fix this married. Im trying to make it to our first therapy session Thursday next week. But until then I feel I need to try to catch him if he is still communicating with the affair person. Also, trying to find the words to express what I need from him.


This is exactly what I tried to do, wait for the counselor to tell him he is wrong and what he needs to do different. And your story sounds so close to mine in so many ways. I can tell you the counseling did not go the way I thought it would. I thought the counselor would help me articulate to my spouse of all the things he is doing wrong and how to fix them. Doesn't quite work that way. First they help you learn how to communicate better, which is very important. If you want help with the internal struggle you are having with the do I stay or do I go I suggest you attend a session by yourself. And set expectations right at the start about how happy your are in your relationship, why you are trying to R and have the counselor very clearly explain how hard and how long a true R will take. Unfortunately I am in the middle of a false R but still going to couples counseling. DO NOT let the counselor make you feel guilty if you chose to not R because only you truly know yourself and your spouse. If your spouse can not open up completely and accept that you need full disclosure and constant communication and reassurance then R will never work. Think of your daughters this way, you are teaching them that this relationship is what they should accept when they have relationships. Think hard about this. Either way there is a lot of hard work ahead for you, either together or apart. Lean on people for help this is not the time to try it alone.


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

IIJokerII said:


> No, no,no,no,no,noooooo. DO not accept this, it is a mirage of crap. With all the cold and stoic strength you can muster demand otherwise. NO, no,no. No one here needs to tell you why this answer is the only one you should have for him, you posting it enough is all the push you need. Now, hit Control+Alt+Delete, punish his resistance with truth. If he refuses, you have his desire and your answer. And remember to delete the History on your phone and Computer whilst visiting this and or other places, Waywards like to snoop too.


Thank you! I did try to push him to remove the lock on the phone and provide me the account, but he said he wasn't talking to the ex but he did not want to be controlled and monitored anymore. I told him to either provide me the information or I want to separate. However, he wouldn't and I caved in. I guess I hold onto to hope through therapy he would change his mind. He said once he felt I was no longer investigating he would unlock his phone, but until then his phone will remain locked.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

mtngirl2014 said:


> Thank you for your knowledge, I know I need to end it. I guess I've been holding onto the hope through couple therapy he would wake up and change. However, that is probably false hope.


Your hope is not false, his arrogance and unwillingness to end things and/or provide you with the necessary actions and details warranted for closure is what is keeping the balance in his favor. Push back and he'll either submit or quit. Either way you then know the truth of the matter. 

You can't free a fish from water!!!!


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Guess I type slowly because I missed the more recent posts.
> 
> Next Thursday is not so long.
> Is what you may or may not find between now and then going to change anything?


I know we need to see a therapist, but that is the soonest we can get in between kids and work. I'm trying my best to keep my mouth shut until then. But, at the same time if I find he is still talking to his ex, I'm DONE! I know I should end it now, because I have every reason to but part of me wants to give him a chance to repair things through therapy.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

mtngirl2014 said:


> Thank you for your knowledge, I know I need to end it. I guess I've been holding onto the hope through couple therapy he would wake up and change. However, that is probably false hope.


Couple's therapy only works when BOTH partners want to save the marriage. Your husband doesn't. If he did, he would have actually ended all his affairs (which on the basis of the secrecy I seriously doubt he has), and done whatever you needed to heal. I suspect that his cheating goes well beyond what you already know, and that's why he's afraid to give you access to anything. 
I think your last glimmer of hope to save this is to toughen up and be strong. Demand access to everything and be prepared to kick him out if he doesn't. You can't legally force him to leave, but you can kick him out of your bed, see a lawyer and file for divorce. Maybe, just maybe if he sees that you are completely serious, and are TRULY ready to end the marriage and take his kids from him, he will finally "get it". And if he doesn't, divorce his cheating a$$ and find someone who will love you and treat you right.


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

stunned said:


> All answers are NO because you are letting him tell you no. I'm sorry but I have to believe something is still going on.
> Let's pretend for a second that he has never cheated on you. Just the behavior he is displaying now with all the secrecy is a dealbreaker for alot of people. Factor in his history and it is ludicrous how he is acting. DO NOT STAND FOR IT.
> DEMAND that he give you access or tell him to leave.
> Your husband is a serial cheater. He has never had to answer to any consequences so he has no reason to stop. Is this how you want to live? You deserve so much better.
> It took me quite a while to SERIOUSLY consider divorce. I mean, it's easy to say "I'll divorce you if you don't do (whatever)", but to REALLY mean it, to actually get a consultation and learn your rights, takes a much different attitude. I think you need to start going in that direction. You are only going to keep getting hurt. Stop letting him dictate the terms of your reconciliation. He cheated. YOU set the rules from now on. If he doesn't like it, he's free to leave and you'll have divorce papers for him.


I appreciate your advise! I need strength to let go.... this is what im search for the most. I hold onto a little hope, but reality is this is never going to work because I'm the only one bending. He isn't trying to repair what he broke.


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

mtngirl2014 said:


> ALL answers are NO!!!!! He is giving me no reason to trust him, besides the fact he is here. He said he had the chance to leave, move out which he did but he decided he wants to be with his family. In his eyes by him being here and going to couple counciling that should be enough. Other than that he wants me to pretend everything is great! He feels he made his choice to stay and I should be happy and let go. He understands its going to take time to heal, but only wants to talk about stuff in therapy.


It looks to me like your husband went into your marriage with one foot out the door already, given the fact that he told his ex he was still in love with her. Add in the fact that he's had one PA and one EA, and it's pretty clear he's not husband material. 

If you stay with him for the sake of the kids, you know EXACTLY what you're going to get from him going forward, and that's no way to live. In my opinion, that makes it an easy choice to decide to divorce him. Good luck with your decision.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

mtngirl2014 said:


> I appreciate your advise! I need strength to let go.... this is what im search for the most. I hold onto a little hope, but reality is this is never going to work because I'm the only one bending. He isn't trying to repair what he broke.


If I may, you seem to waver very rapidly from moving on from him or working to repair your marriage. You have the unfortunate disadvantage of still caring for this man yet you seem to be *ready to move on. You must first accept this confliction and decide what end result you wish to end up with. As of know you are getting nowhere, a place called limbo, a place far worse than the end of a marriage or attempt at reconciliation.

Choose to move forward or choose to move on and in either case set the tone, take back the control and get up and fight, either for your marriage or for yourself, and if you haven't noticed both options involve you, so get to it and knock this mother____ing problem out of the park.*


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

And take note, the most overlooked aspect of MC is the fact that most sessions tend to devolve into beat em up sessions that focus on all the past things you both may, or may not, have done to each other. And the thing you'll discover is that discussing these problems again will only cause more resentment, not less. It is best to work on the current at hand problem and stop the ship from taking on any more water, then begin to fix everything else............ Maybe. Proceed with caution.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_ he realized quickly that he did not want to leave his family and me. _

So he wants to be a caker eater?


_He told me he ended things with her, but they will stay in contact via email holidays etc._

But if he wants his family why stay in touch with his OW?-(see what I said above)


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## Canon in D (Aug 24, 2014)

I'm sorry for what you are going through. Please listen to your head and set your heart aside for now. Everyone has said it, he doesn't respect you. How dare he give you his terms when he cheated on you? What a selfish person he is! He thinks you are a pushover and has zero means of fighting back or what? Unless you really want to stay in this marriage for you, not for the girls because this is not a healthy example for them to learn. You don't want them to grow up thinking marriage sucks or that it's okay to allow the man to treat them the same because mom was okay so it must be normal and okay, conversely sometimes kids lose respect for their parent for allowing/accepting the other parent to act irresponsible. Kids are not stupid, they know as they can sense the negative energy around. 
I hope you get the courage to do whatever you have in mind. Hugs for you, sister.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Mtngirl,
I am proponent for staying together as a family after an EA/PA. I believe it's the right thing to do for the children but only if there is DEEP remorse and a momumental effort on the behalf of the WS to R. Proving that it was just a one time error.

From your posts there is none of that here. His mother was married 5 times and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I am Ivory sure (99 44/100%) that he will never commit to the marriage and be the husband you need. If you go to counseling be sure to tell the counselor of his latest plan to keep in contact with his xGF on holidays. I think the counselor will see the futility of trying to R with someone like this.

The kind of change that needs to occur in your H only happens very, very rarely and usually after an eye opening cataclysmic event. I am sorry to tell you this but it is true and as much as I HATE to see family's break apart, sometimes there just isn't any other way to do what's best for you and the children. You will need to be strong in this and not buy into his faux remorse when he sees the inevitable coming. I'm sorry for you and your girls but if you move on they will end up in a stable family environment which will be better for them and you, ultimately.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

NoChoice said:


> I am Ivory sure (99 44/100%)


Now that is funny, I'll forward you the royalties fir use.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_He said sorry, but expects me to get over it_

Doesn't sound to sorry to me and it doesn't sound like he cares about your pain.



_ and only discuss the issue in therapy. His phone is now locked, because he says he is tired of being monitored and controlled._

But if he is so sorry he'd do anything to help you deal with the pain he cause.


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## mtngirl2014 (Oct 2, 2014)

Canon in D said:


> I'm sorry for what you are going through. Please listen to your head and set your heart aside for now. Everyone has said it, he doesn't respect you. How dare he give you his terms when he cheated on you? What a selfish person he is! He thinks you are a pushover and has zero means of fighting back or what? Unless you really want to stay in this marriage for you, not for the girls because this is not a healthy example for them to learn. You don't want them to grow up thinking marriage sucks or that it's okay to allow the man to treat them the same because mom was okay so it must be normal and okay, conversely sometimes kids lose respect for their parent for allowing/accepting the other parent to act irresponsible. Kids are not stupid, they know as they can sense the negative energy around.
> I hope you get the courage to do whatever you have in mind. Hugs for you, sister.


Thank you! Yes, everyone has said and I know it... he does not respect me. He is selfish! I have to be strong and stand up to him.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I'm also all for giving someone a chance to demonstrate their love & commitment, work on the marriage together. IF they're all in, snd willing to prove it 100% of the time, every day, all day.

Is he? Doesn't even remotely look like it from here...

Do not make the mistake that many do of expecting MC to play arbitrator and decide for you "who is right snd who is wrong" here. Their job is to get you to communicate, to hear each other, to figure out where to previous issues are and why they exist, and give you two a 'safe place' to discuss and work it out. They're not interested in hearing either of you say "Deal breaker; I'm done."

The MC is not a judge nor jury, not going to listen to your arguments and decide who is guilty of what. Their interest is in seeing you work it out so they can claim success. 

My point being, while I am all for MC, all for R where it is warranted, and all for trying to work it out, as of right now he is NOT even close to all in, NOT willing to do what it takes to keep you in the marriage, NOT respecting your needs and wishes to communicate, NOT even being truthful, NOT showing true remorse other than for getting caught, NOT willing to do what we call the heavy lifting to help you heal from his cheating, NOT doing anything but indicating that you should be thankful he's "decided" to stay with you, his Plan B, after all he's done. It's all about him. I am betting he is only willing to talk about this in MC because he knows you want it to be all right, and believes he can gaslight the MC, too.

I think or hope you are smarter than that.

The line "you have to be willing to end your marriage in order to save it" is true. He needs to see that you are truly, really, and actually willing to do so, because right now, your threats are all emoty and have been historically. Unfortunately it often also means, as a result of his choices, that will you just have to end it.

Run.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

How's it going Mtngirl? i hope you took the weekend to consider some of the advice and ideas that have been talked about here.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

2xloser said:


> Is he? Doesn't even remotely look like it from here...
> 
> Do not make the mistake that many do of expecting MC to play arbitrator and decide for you "who is right snd who is wrong" here. Their job is to get you to communicate, to hear each other, to figure out where to previous issues are and why they exist, and give you two a 'safe place' to discuss and work it out. They're not interested in hearing either of you say "Deal breaker; I'm done."
> 
> The MC is not a judge nor jury, not going to listen to your arguments and decide who is guilty of what. Their interest is in seeing you work it out so they can claim success. .


I agree with this to a point, but a safe place to talk is a microcosm considering the 1 hour of therapy vs the remaining hours of the week, even if multiple sessions were to occur the overwhelming ratio of the remaining hours in the week Mtngirl and her husband need to adjust to each others actions and reactions and the first step is accepting responsibility for their behavior. If he wishes to keep infidelity in the mix then she responds accordingly and behaves in a manner that puts the focus on her vs them. 

MC sessions should also be taken with caution as such they have the potential to reopen old wounds thus contaminating this so called safe place. Cause and effect have guided humans since the cave men days, why should this be any different.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

IIJokerII said:


> I agree with this to a point, but a safe place to talk is a microcosm considering the 1 hour of therapy vs the remaining hours of the week, even if multiple sessions were to occur the overwhelming ratio of the remaining hours in the week Mtngirl and her husband need to adjust to each others actions and reactions and the first step is accepting responsibility for their behavior. If he wishes to keep infidelity in the mix then she responds accordingly and behaves in a manner that puts the focus on her vs them.
> 
> MC sessions should also be taken with caution as such they have the potential to reopen old wounds thus contaminating this so called safe place. Cause and effect have guided humans since the cave men days, why should this be any different.


The problem, though is that MC will do NO GOOD whatsoever if the affair is still going on, or if the WS isn't interested in R. I get no indication whatsoever that her husband has ended the affair and gone NC. In fact, he's said that he will not go NC. I feel he will downplay any affair, and gaslight the counselor. I'm scared that mtngirl feels that this MC session will answer all her questions and make everything good again, and that's just not going to happen. 
The only way she has any hope of saving this is if she stands up to his nonsense, proves that she is ready and willing to end the marriage and take his kids away, and demands the he go complete NC and hand over access to everything he's been keeping a secret. When he refuses (and he will), she needs to actually go through with the consequences. Divorce papers. With his name on them. Maybe, just maybe he will then understand and "get it".


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

stunned said:


> The problem, though is that MC will do NO GOOD whatsoever if the affair is still going on, or if the WS isn't interested in R. I get no indication whatsoever that her husband has ended the affair and gone NC. In fact, he's said that he will not go NC. I feel he will downplay any affair, and gaslight the counselor. I'm scared that mtngirl feels that this MC session will answer all her questions and make everything good again, and that's just not going to happen.
> The only way she has any hope of saving this is if she stands up to his nonsense, proves that she is ready and willing to end the marriage and take his kids away, and demands the he go complete NC and hand over access to everything he's been keeping a secret. When he refuses (and he will), she needs to actually go through with the consequences. Divorce papers. With his name on them. Maybe, just maybe he will then understand and "get it".


This is agreeable, however I think the unintended consequences of her describing his behavior to a licensed professional will cast light on his lies since words like " Understand" and " I can see her point" we not only reinforce her feelings but disable his ability to gaslight. What she has to do, and she seems able to do so, is challenge him with a passive relentlessness. In time he will be unable to continue his rewriting of history to her as she will have proven immune to it, but right now they both have that unbalanced notion of self perception. She knows she is right but the one, if not only person she wants to convince is unwilling or unable to accept his own behavior. In turn, he knows he is wrong but will continue to assault her reality to contort to his fantasy. Her main weapon; Flip the script and make the fantasy a reality, along with all the consequences that adhere to it.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

mtngirl2014 said:


> Thank you! I did try to push him to remove the lock on the phone and provide me the account, but he said he wasn't talking to the ex but he did not want to be controlled and monitored anymore. I told him to either provide me the information or I want to separate. However, he wouldn't and I caved in. I guess I hold onto to hope through therapy he would change his mind. He said once he felt I was no longer investigating he would unlock his phone, but until then his phone will remain locked.


This is a problem. He is not done with his attempts with the exGF. I guarantee you he is still in contact with her. 100%.

Counseling will do no good while he is in this position.

Use his weakness against him. Tell him if he doesn't give you full transparency you will file for divorce and fight for full custody. Tell him you have an appointment with an attorney (get one). 

He is using you as his security blanket while he goes after the "one that got away". Don't let him. Take yourself away as the security blanket.

It usually takes 2-3 appointments with a counselor before they really get to the meat of anything anyway. 1 session won't make you feel better enough.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Tell him if he doesn't give you full transparency you will file for divorce and fight for full custody. Tell him you have an appointment with an attorney (get one).


And don't just tell him this. DO IT. You've been telling for years and he knows you will not follow through. See a lawyer. Begin the divorce proceedings. Then, when you give him your ultimatum and demand to see everything, and he refuses - nail him. Tell him you've seen a lawyer and are in the process of having him served papers. Give him the name of your lawyer and proof that you are doing this. Show him that you are serious this time. If he still does not come around, proceed with the divorce. You really have no other choice.


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## Canon in D (Aug 24, 2014)

*Re: Re: Question: Stay married ffor the kids?*



stunned said:


> And don't just tell him this. DO IT. You've been telling for years and he knows you will not follow through. See a lawyer. Begin the divorce proceedings. Then, when you give him your ultimatum and demand to see everything, and he refuses - nail him. Tell him you've seen a lawyer and are in the process of having him served papers. Give him the name of your lawyer and proof that you are doing this. Show him that you are serious this time. If he still does not come around, proceed with the divorce. You really have no other choice.


Question is, is she ready to do it? It's not easy getting out of the "comfort zone", and embrace the unknown. Is OP truly ready to make that change? 

I agree that this should be done as telling him for years is just like crying wolf, he has gotten immune to hearing it and doesn't think she would actually do it, and if she does, she needs to do it for real, not just for show.


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## stunned (May 6, 2013)

Canon in D said:


> Question is, is she ready to do it? It's not easy getting out of the "comfort zone", and embrace the unknown. Is OP truly ready to make that change?
> 
> I agree that this should be done as telling him for years is just like crying wolf, he has gotten immune to hearing it and doesn't think she would actually do it, and if she does, she needs to do it for real, not just for show.


:iagree::iagree::iagree: It's incredibly difficult to take these steps. But if she doesn't, she will just continue getting hurt over and over. If she does find the strength to do it, a year from now, whatever the outcome, she will be wondering why she didn't do it years earlier.


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## Canon in D (Aug 24, 2014)

*Re: Re: Question: Stay married ffor the kids?*



stunned said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree: It's incredibly difficult to take these steps. But if she doesn't, she will just continue getting hurt over and over. If she does find the strength to do it, a year from now, whatever the outcome, she will be wondering why she didn't do it years earlier.


I agree with this completely, it's liberating to be pain free. Emotional torture is so bad for our soul.


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