# Wife is awkward with sex, and it's killing me slowly



## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm sure this has been addressed a million times in this forum, but I'd like a little advice as to what my next step should be. 

We've been happily married for almost 3 years now. I love my wife more than anything. Truly. She is the light of my life and I enjoy spending all my time with her.

We've had a lot of problems with family issues in the past and did marriage counseling for a while. We've worked very hard at getting better with our communication and it definitely shows. 

Now, having said that, there is really only one thing we ever have an issue with and that's sex. 

At the risk of seeming like a gigantic jerk of a husband, let me just say that I've had above and beyond my fair share of female sexual partners and definitely know good sex from bad sex. And I definitely know that every woman I was with previously enjoyed sex quite a bit. Most partners and I were having sex 2-3 nights out of the week. The last woman I dated before my wife, we were having sex minimum of 3 times a week for 4 years. The woman before that, I think we were addicted to each other and it was almost a daily event, again for 3-4 years. I could go on and on but the point is, I know I'm not bad at sex or someone would have said something by now. 

My wife and I have had enjoyable, passionate sex before. But in 5+ years (including when we were dating and engaged) it seems like that has probably only happened 3 or 4 times total. 

She has told me that she's had dreams of me just banging her brains out which really turns me on, but never ever happens. We make plans to have sex in our busy schedule and we usually find time at least 2-3 times a month, which is good for us. A year ago it was maybe 1 time a month if we were lucky.

So.....when we do have sex she seems not relaxed, awkward, like she just wants it over with, unexcited, and doesn't like to do any of the work or even move really. She very rarely makes a sound. It's usually only missionary position and that's it. 100% of the time she wants to use a vibrator that I bought her because it's the only thing that gets her off and sometimes it takes a long long time. Sometimes that doesn't even work.

When we first started having sex, it would literally take an hour to get her off without a vibrator. By that time we are both exhausted and we just give up. Even if she tells me to just focus on me and that she wants me to enjoy it, it's still very un-passionate 99% of the time.

A little info on her...
She does take anti-depressants. We thought that her dosage might be interfering with her sex-drive so she decreased the dosage. That hasn't helped. She doesn't take birth control. She's had a hard time losing weight and I've told her that I thought she might have a thyroid issue since her grandfather, sister, and mother all have issues. She laughs and says that has nothing to do with it and she doesn't believe in thyroid problems.

She does masturbate sometimes but feels bad for doing it without me, and most of the times she tells me that she did it.....which I always felt was odd. I'd honestly rather not know because I think she gets off more without me than with me.

She's VERY attractive. Blonde hair. Blue eyes. Cute as can be. Smart. Funny. The love of my life. We met in high school and reconnected 10 years later. I always knew she was the woman that I wanted to marry.

This is a little bump in our otherwise great marriage but it seems to be growing from a bump to a mountain very quickly. 

We've had pretty bad arguments about this that are usually triggered by me just giving up during sex because she isn't saying anything, moving, making any faces, or even breathing heavy. It makes me feel like "just please do what you need to and get it over with". She claims to love sex with me and is very attracted to me. She always tells me how handsome I am and we usually always have our arms around each other.

So this is how it went down tonight:
- Husband gets freshened up and smelling good
- Husband surprises Wife by giving her a backrub 
- After 10 mins, Husband grabs Wife's hand and leads her into the bedroom where he has dimmed the lights and set the mood
- Husband deeply kisses Wife and tells her that he's been thinking about her all day
- After 1 min, Wife stops kissing husband and lays on her back on the bed without really saying anything
- Husband says "Um....ok. I guess this means you're ready to have sex then?"
- Wife says "Yep."
- 10mins later, Wife says "Are you relaxed?" in a loud voice, not seeming in the slightest turned on or in the moment. 
- Husband says "Well, I was enjoying it and I was relaxed but you aren't doing anything to really let me know you are enjoying it. That's all I want is for you to enjoy it have a nice time with me and be relaxed. Just kinda be in the moment."
- Wife says "Sorry. I don't know what you want me to do. I don't know what's wrong with me."
- Husband says "Nothing is wrong with you honey, but this happens a lot. I wish you would just communicate with me a little. Do you not enjoy it?"
- Wife says "I do enjoy it, but.....I'm sorry."
- Session over. We both slowly get dressed. I look defeated and she apologizes all night long until we both goto bed. 

Here is what we've tried to fix this problem:
- I've asked my wife what turns her on and tried to pay close attention to that
- She says that she likes when I take the initiative, but the last dozen or so times I've done that, nothing happens and we both give up.
- I've bought her all kinds of sexy lingerie. Most have never seen the light of day. I've probably spent $1k on lingerie that she never wears. I thought women liked feeling sexy, but I guess she doesn't.
- I've asked her what I can do to please her and I've tried to follow through with that at all times but most of the time that doesn't help.
- I've read 3 different books on sex & marriage, but none of them have helped.

I'm not sure what else to do other than ask her if we can go to a couples therapist. Part of me just wants to sit her down and tell her that she is extremely awkward and bad at sex and communication during sex but I'd never say that because it would her hurt feelings and that's not right. 

I have a fear that something happened in her past that I don't know about. Part of me thinks that an ex-step father abused her when she was a child and she has associated sex with that so it's just not enjoyable for her at all. She has mentioned that she was very badly mistreated by this one step-father and I know I'm not hearing the whole story on that. I've even been woken up by her sleep talking cussing at him and calling him names.

I feel incredibly horrible because when this kind of stuff happens, I start thinking about all of the women that I dated and didn't love even half as much as I love my wife, but the sex was amazing and frequent. I guess I didn't realize how unhappy a sexless marriage would make me until tonight. She even noticed that I was much more unhappy than usual after this happens. She apologized over and over and said that she feels terrible because I was so nice about it and put forth so much effort, but she just doesn't know what happened. 

This was pretty much the final straw for me. I wanted to see what advice people had out there and what sex therapy might do for us if we decide to go that route. 

Should I confront her about any past issues? 

Should we goto therapy?

Any advice would be so helpful!


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

it would have been good to learn all this stuff BEFORE you got married.

But i see some hope in all that.

Get her various hormones tested. NOT by her normal doctor. Seek out a sexual disfunction doctor who specializes in women. If she is already on thyroid medication, that might be it. It could very well be the antidepressant meds. Bioidentical seeds work very well in some women to up their sexual desire

Get her into a gym working out MANY times a week. Maybe she can loose the antidepressants with a healthy workout. Also, she will probably lose weight too. 

Get her the myfitnesspal app to help her lose some weight.

The vibrator thing: she must learn to NOT BE ASHAMED of using it. Have her use the vibrator to a full orgasm as you watch across the room sitting in a chair. THEN after she has cum, you can have sex with her. Show her that you really enjoy watching her pleasure herself. The idea being that she learns you WANT her to have an orgasm, and you will do whatever she needs to do o have an orgasm.

ALSO, do not make a big thing about her having an orgasm each time. If she says after sex "i did not have an orgasm" the right response from you might be "thats ok honey, we can try again tomorrow morning".

And as for normal sex...maybe you need a bunch of foreplay first? Do you go down on her orally until she is close, masturbate her while licking her nipples, try some mild bondage while working her full body over for an orgasm? Some women do not have orgasms from PIV sex, and certainly not from a quickie. Get them all worked up FIRST, then have the PIV sex.

and stop thinking about the past GF's. You chose this one to get married too. You owe her your undivided attention. If you are dissatisfied, try wanking to some porn as you work on ALL of the above.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Have you ever told your wife about all these past lovers that were so great? There's no better way to shut your wife down then to talk about past girlfriends. My hb used to do this a lot and I can tell you it's very damaging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

anti-depressants can make it difficult to impossible for some women to orgasm. that's just a fact. And sometimes getting off of them they never recover.

so there's that.

also different anti-depressants have different effects on libido. She should speak with her doctor about it.

antidepressants are also notorious for causing people to gain weight. 

since you've mentioned a thyroid problem as a possibility to her she knows it you think she's fat. 

that's not a good move.

does she exercise at all?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

If you want your wife to participate and be more passionate, do not orgasm when she is just laying there doing nothing. Do not reaffirm her feelings that she doesn't have to participate in order for you to orgasm. All you do is reinforce her believe that sex is just a chore and other than just laying there being a warm body, she doesn't have to do much. Finish alone, finish later, but do not just orgasm then complain afterwards. She needs to know that you can't finish and do not enjoy sex without participation. 

It may be the side effects of the medication she is taken, but the point still remains, if you didn't orgasm when she was just laying there, she would have to participate. Whatever the reason the passion was lost, she has learned she doesn't have to try anymore, the result is the same.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

**edited the long response above as I didn't find it relevant. My advice is communication and do not just orgasm if you don't feel it's passionate. This does nothing but hurt your cause. She needs to know what you enjoy during sex and unless she is at least trying, do not revert back to just using her body to orgasm and complaining later that you hate it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Do not follow any advise that starts with "Get her..."

Do you have children?

Now, you had this information prior to marriage and you made this choice. Looks or whatever other qualites she had trumped sex. Now you realize that you made a dumb decision.

Now, the first thing you have to eliminate is the FEAR that you will get no sex if you don't *****foot around her regarding sex.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Two things stick out to me:

1) anti-depressants. Can she come off of them completely? That might be a big part of the issue, 

or...

2) the masturbating. It's possible she masturbates a LOT more than she is letting on, and that's why her "tolerance" for stimulation is so high, to the point she can't cum.

#2 has happened to me before. I remember doing that in the morning, thinking there was no chance we'd have sex that night. But then we did, and I couldn't finish. Maybe that's happening to her a lot. Also, if she did masturbate shortly before sex, she probably knows she's not going to orgasm, and that you'll be upset about it. So she kind of shuts down.

Last, it could just be her body - maybe she's just not wired for this.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

tk421jag said:


> We've been happily married for almost 3 years now. I love my wife more than anything. Truly. She is the light of my life and I enjoy spending all my time with her.
> 
> *Take her off the pedestal.*
> 
> ...


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

She sounds self conscious and inhibited to me, like she can't get out of her own way. I would try talking about sex and fantasies, past experiences with her more. Reminisce about those four or five times that you remember as passionate. Tell her what you liked about it without bringing up the negative stuff. Supposing nobody else is around to hear it, sex should just be comfortable to talk about as well as do. When it comes to your spouse it should be as commonplace as talking about the weather in that it's not taboo to talk about. Hopefully that level of comfort in talking about it translates to doing it in the bedroom.

How about porn? I'm not sure what your beliefs are about it or hers but watching it together, supposing nobody has problems with watching it too much and neither is opposed may help. You can even make a game about it. Watch one you both enjoy and play a naughty version of "Monkey See, Monkey Do". They also sell more "couple-friendly" DVDs about sex for couples to watch together or alone. 

Speaking of games, there are lots of naughty couples games on the market. Making a game out of sex, may encourage her to loosen up because she may be distracted by the game that she won't have time to focus on being shy or embarrassed. 

I'm not saying get her drunk and take advantage of her but a couple of glasses of wine may relax her and help her come out of her shell more on date night. Not to the point where she's drunk but enough to feel warm, tipsy and just a little euphoric... It can lower inhibitions. If she does loosen up then match her enthusiasm with her own, tell her how sexy she is, how hot her ass looks right now, how sexy her voice sounds and how much it turns her on etc.

If she's self-conscious about her body - you said she has trouble losing weight. It may be why she prefers missionary, especially if she doesn't like her tummy. Because she's more covered in that position. In addition to encouraging a healthy lifestyle, I would buy or encourage her to wear lingerie that makes her feel sexy. You can even visit the store together or sit at the computer together and pick out pieces that you both like. 

Sometimes you also just have to "do it"... When you go to have sex and she assumes the position for missionary, grab her and roll her on top of you without asking her to get on top. Or flip her over and assume the doggy-style position. Even more risque, come up behind her when she's doing the dishes, initiate sex and bend her over the sink. Surprise her and bend her over the couch. It might not work for all women but I know I like it sometimes when my spouse just takes me without all of the preparation and kid gloves. 

Finally, some of the most passionate sex we've had happens right after a good workout together. We'll go jogging or play a game of one-on-one basketball. We get home endorphins are already pumping, heart rate is elevated, we're already sweaty and either take a shower together and have sex or maybe not even make it to the shower before we're on each other like white on rice.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

tk421jag said:


> Should I confront her about any past issues?


Confront? No. Discuss? Yes. Bring it up gently. Ask her directly if anything ever happened with the step-father. Discuss it in a loving and concerned way.



tk421jag said:


> Should we goto therapy?


Yes. And this would be the perfect place to bring up/discuss the above.

You are still early into your marriage. Don't let this turn into 20 years of misery and unfulfilling sex like I, and others here, have done.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

tk421jog,

Sounds like you are giving her some vague instructions and hoping she'll do the right things. It's like telling someone that isn't comfortable dancing to "just let it out and move to the music".

I'd try just telling her what to do (you could try asking her ahead of time if it's okay for you to do this. I'm not sure if that's considerate or too passive). Take her orgasm off the table (for the moment). She's probably having performance anxiety about that. Although it seems selfish, by concentrating on you for a while, you'll probably make both of you happier.

The idea is that eventually, she gets more comfortable about sex, figures out what to do, has orgasms and doesn't spend all of her time thinking that she's doing the wrong thing.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

tk421jag said:


> My wife and I have had enjoyable, passionate sex before. But in 5+ years (including when we were dating and engaged) it seems like that has probably only happened 3 or 4 times total.


So this begs the question. Why in the world would you pursue a relationship AND marry this woman?

The issue is WITH YOU, not her. You are trying to make her into something SHE IS NOT.

You completely missed these red flags and proceeded. BIG MISTAKE.

What should you do? You should sit your wife down and talk about this and get a feeling from her end. If you get a confirmation to what you have been experiencing ALL ALONG, you simply tell her that you are sorry and you 2 are not compatible.

If she decides to change and meet your expectations, all is dandy.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

If you are a good husband your wife will do anything to keep you and maintain her relationship with you. So that's what you have to be, the guy that she could never live without. Then give her clear information about what you expect. She will meet your expectations if she wants to maintain her marriage and she knows what they are. 

It's not about divorce... I read your first thread. You translated alot of advice into people advocating divorce. What they are really advocating is you clearly standing up for and advocating for your needs and understanding what kind of wife you have.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Hicks said:


> If you are a good husband your wife will do anything to keep you and maintain her relationship with you. So that's what you have to be, the guy that she could never live without. Then give her clear information about what you expect. She will meet your expectations if she wants to maintain her marriage and she knows what they are.
> 
> It's not about divorce... I read your first thread. You translated alot of advice into people advocating divorce. What they are really advocating is you clearly standing up for and advocating for your needs and understanding what kind of wife you have.



@Hicks,

This can be very true. A wife who realizes she has something good at home, might just do everything she needs to do to keep him.

However some women realize they have to do very little to keep the man at home, they even feed him a bunch of $hit and he keeps on loving her. Women like this may cheat on the husband and have the best of both worlds. A permenant and loving safety net, while they do their affairs out in the world.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening tk421jag
Just one thought. If she masturbates and tells you - see if she will let you watch. Both because it would be fun for you and you can see what things help her orgasm more easily. You can join in a bit - kissing and stroking here while she is doing it. 

I know this is just one small part of the problem but it might help.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

treyvion said:


> some women realize they have to do very little to keep the man at home, they even feed him a bunch of $hit and he keeps on loving her.


That's why it's so important to disabuse them of this notion.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Your wife is clearly too inhibited to become aroused. Why is she inhibited and does it really matter?

Ask her if she WANTS to become aroused?
Ask her if she knows what she wants from you in order to become more aroused?

The scenario you describe, though very loving and gentle, sounds a bit passive, like you're slowly schmoozing her.

You mentioned that she admitted she dreamed of you "just taking her."



> She has told me that she's had dreams of me *just banging her brains out w*hich really turns me on, but never ever happens. We make plans to have sex in our busy schedule and we usually find time at least 2-3 times a month, which is good for us.


Guess you missed the part about her dreams of you just banging her brains out means she wants you to just bang her brains out.

What's with scheduling sex? You guys don't have 30 minutes in any given day in which you rip her clothes off and bang her into next week? Seriously? Are you planning the long slow seduction to set the mood?

Here's the modern long seduction for busy adults in sexting:

Husband: thinking about you naked on the bed
Wife: oh yeah?
H: yeah, touching yourself and I'm watching and loving it.
W: sounds good...
H: gotta go but you hold on to that thought. See you tonight!

Then you get home, stare her up and down in the most inappropriate and lascivious manner you can manage. Declare that after dinner she is to change into the outfit laying on the bed before she does the dishes. You want to watch her clean up in that outfit...

Then after dinner clean up, you take her up to the bedroom, rip off her clothing and bang her into next week! If she didn't reach orgasm, you use your hands and or mouth directly afterward while whispering nasty things in her ear until she does or pull out the vibrator and watch her use it on herself...maybe you'll get a second wind?

It's possible she is inhibited and truly doesn't know what she is supposed to do and keeps still because it's easier to do nothing than to do the wrong thing. Maybe she had a past lover her put her down, or maybe she has issues with feeling like a good girl isn't supposed to be so lively in bed? It's possible there is abuse in her back ground but if she is maturbating with a vibrator AND telling you about it sex no longer carries much of a stigma.

Does your wife know what you want her to do? You want her move more? Tell her to pump her hips up and down in time with you. You want more sounds from her? Tell her to describe what you're doing, what you're touching, encourage her to use the naughty words. Do you want her to touch you? Tell her where to touch you and how you like it. Tell her to rub her finger nails down your back, grab your hips and pull you in, rub her heels up and down your butt.

Lastly, I suspect she wants a dominant lover and is too afraid to tell you.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I was thinking something similar Anon Pink. She just wants you to take her without asking and bang her. However, this might be hard for you to do, since she is always so non-responsive, this probably created fear of rejection for you by now.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> I was thinking something similar Anon Pink. She just wants you to take her without asking and bang her. However, this might be hard for you to do, since she is always so non-responsive, this probably created fear of rejection for you by now.


If someone is non-responsive and rejecting and pulling away alot how in holey h3ll can they expect you to simply dominate and "take it". All that other action makes you think that they'll get angry with you.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you ever told your wife about all these past lovers that were so great? There's no better way to shut your wife down then to talk about past girlfriends. My hb used to do this a lot and I can tell you it's very damaging.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would never ever do that. I know it would hurt her feelings, so what would be the point in that.

The more I read comments, the more I realize that some people just don't give a crap about their spouses feelings.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> since you've mentioned a thyroid problem as a possibility to her she knows it you think she's fat.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are other issues that she's dealing with that could be thyroid issues. To me, weight isn't one of them. I don't think she's overweight at all actually.

She works out twice a week and just ran a half marathon last month. I'm incredibly proud of her for training to run that as she isn't a runner at all. It was a big accomplishment and I bragged to everyone about it.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Coldie said:


> It may be the side effects of the medication she is taken, but the point still remains, if you didn't orgasm when she was just laying there, she would have to participate. Whatever the reason the passion was lost, she has learned she doesn't have to try anymore, the result is the same.


That actually makes sense. But normally when she's just laying there, I never get off at all. We usually just give up, get dressed, and go watch TV.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

tk421jag said:


> I would never ever do that. I know it would hurt her feelings, so what would be the point in that.
> 
> The more I read comments, the more I realize that some people just don't give a crap about their spouses feelings.


That's good, I just had to ask since I've experienced this first hand.

I don't know that my husband didn't give a crap about my feelings, I just don't think he thought about the damage he was doing. I think in his case it was an attempt to level the field and make him more desirable as he's a few years older than me. It had the opposite effect.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Hicks said:


> Do not follow any advise that starts with "Get her..."
> 
> Do you have children?
> 
> ...


Actually, prior to us getting married the sex was pretty good. Just not much of it because we lived away from each other and only saw one another on the weekends. 

She was also on a different medication now that I think of it.....so I'm willing to bet it is the medication.

No children. We're barely having sex....and that's kinda where children come from.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

tk421jag said:


> Actually, prior to us getting married the sex was pretty good. Just not much of it because we lived away from each other and only saw one another on the weekends.
> 
> She was also on a different medication now that I think of it.....so I'm willing to bet it is the medication.
> 
> No children. We're barely having sex....and that's kinda where children come from.


Eh, plenty of people in sexless marriages managed to knock out a couple of kids. Only takes once.....


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> Two things stick out to me:
> 
> 1) anti-depressants. Can she come off of them completely? That might be a big part of the issue,
> 
> ...


Naw, she's not masturbating during the day unless she's doing it at work. She leaves before I leave home and she gets home after I do. Only reason she did this past weekend is because I wasn't around. 

She can't come off the anti-depressants very easily. She feels really sick if she just stops taking them. She was trying to wean herself off for a while but they messed up her prescription and put her back on the normal dosage instead of decreasing it more.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Miss Taken said:


> She sounds self conscious and inhibited to me, like she can't get out of her own way. I would try talking about sex and fantasies, past experiences with her more. Reminisce about those four or five times that you remember as passionate. Tell her what you liked about it without bringing up the negative stuff. Supposing nobody else is around to hear it, sex should just be comfortable to talk about as well as do. When it comes to your spouse it should be as commonplace as talking about the weather in that it's not taboo to talk about. Hopefully that level of comfort in talking about it translates to doing it in the bedroom.


She's VERY self conscious. I'm not sure how I can help with that. She needs to work on that herself I believe. We can talk about sex normally, but usually it gets a little awkward with her.



Miss Taken said:


> How about porn? I'm not sure what your beliefs are about it or hers but watching it together, supposing nobody has problems with watching it too much and neither is opposed may help. You can even make a game about it. Watch one you both enjoy and play a naughty version of "Monkey See, Monkey Do". They also sell more "couple-friendly" DVDs about sex for couples to watch together or alone.


Probably not a good idea to watch porn together. We have a close married couple whose marriage is on the rocks because of porn so we might not feel comfortable there. The couple friendly DVDs may not be a bad idea. Thanks for that tip!



Miss Taken said:


> Speaking of games, there are lots of naughty couples games on the market. Making a game out of sex, may encourage her to loosen up because she may be distracted by the game that she won't have time to focus on being shy or embarrassed.


We've tried that and she just laughs and says it's silly.



Miss Taken said:


> I'm not saying get her drunk and take advantage of her but a couple of glasses of wine may relax her and help her come out of her shell more on date night. Not to the point where she's drunk but enough to feel warm, tipsy and just a little euphoric... It can lower inhibitions. If she does loosen up then match her enthusiasm with her own, tell her how sexy she is, how hot her ass looks right now, how sexy her voice sounds and how much it turns her on etc.


She doesn't drink enough to get drunk. She'll only have 1 drink. She says that she used to have a bad problem with drinking and would rather not drink a lot.



Miss Taken said:


> If she's self-conscious about her body - you said she has trouble losing weight. It may be why she prefers missionary, especially if she doesn't like her tummy. Because she's more covered in that position. In addition to encouraging a healthy lifestyle, I would buy or encourage her to wear lingerie that makes her feel sexy. You can even visit the store together or sit at the computer together and pick out pieces that you both like.


It's a pretty good bet that you're 100% correct about this. She actually has said before that she doesn't like being on top because she can "feel her tummy jiggling". I just say "Oh please! I don't care what you feel jiggling. It feels great being that close to you so lets do it!" But that doesn't work. I have yet to find anything that makes her feel sexy. You name a piece of lingerie and I've bought it for her. She doesn't wear any of it but it's worth asking again.



Miss Taken said:


> Sometimes you also just have to "do it"... When you go to have sex and she assumes the position for missionary, grab her and roll her on top of you without asking her to get on top. Or flip her over and assume the doggy-style position. Even more risque, come up behind her when she's doing the dishes, initiate sex and bend her over the sink. Surprise her and bend her over the couch. It might not work for all women but I know I like it sometimes when my spouse just takes me without all of the preparation and kid gloves.


That's what she means by taking the initiative. I've flipped her over before and she's said "What are you doing??!" And then she just lays there. No noise. No heavy breathing. No moving. It's like she's frozen. I've done the whole bending her over the couch and in the kitchen.....she usually just wants to go to the bedroom so she can lay on her back.



Miss Taken said:


> Finally, some of the most passionate sex we've had happens right after a good workout together. We'll go jogging or play a game of one-on-one basketball. We get home endorphins are already pumping, heart rate is elevated, we're already sweaty and either take a shower together and have sex or maybe not even make it to the shower before we're on each other like white on rice.


I agree! We work out together sometimes and I love having sex just afterwards. She doesn't. She says "I'm all sweaty and stinky! Let's take a shower." So we take a shower together and make out a little. Then sometimes we have sex, but most of the time she just gets dressed. Even if I try to put moves on her. A few times she has accused me of trying to make too much of a big deal out of sex or says that its too big of a production. I'm not sure what she means by that. 

And by the way, foreplay is almost doesn't exist with her. She very rarely lets me go down on her, even though I ask her and she knows I LOVE doing that. She still doesn't make any noise when I do it. She goes down on me sometimes, but not for very long. She'll just quit and lay on her back or say "Would you like to have intercourse now?" Who says that? It makes it seems so clinical.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> Confront? No. Discuss? Yes. Bring it up gently. Ask her directly if anything ever happened with the step-father. Discuss it in a loving and concerned way.
> 
> 
> Yes. And this would be the perfect place to bring up/discuss the above.
> ...


Good advice. Thank you! Some folks on here seem all too bitter about this subject. I love my wife and I'm willing to do anything to work this out, but I just don't know where to start.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> tk421jog,
> 
> Sounds like you are giving her some vague instructions and hoping she'll do the right things. It's like telling someone that isn't comfortable dancing to "just let it out and move to the music".
> 
> ...


Naw, I've told her over and over again what I want to do, but she just seems uninterested, but I don't think I've done it in more of a guiding way. Like actually going through the motions as we are having sex. She's definitely having anxiety and most of the time just tells me "don't worry about me, I'm not going to orgasm. I'm not even close." 

She has told me in the past that she feels like I put a lot of pressure on her, but I don't really understand that. When I ask her what she means she never gives me specifics so I'm still confused by that.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Hicks said:


> If you are a good husband your wife will do anything to keep you and maintain her relationship with you. So that's what you have to be, the guy that she could never live without. Then give her clear information about what you expect. She will meet your expectations if she wants to maintain her marriage and she knows what they are.
> 
> It's not about divorce... I read your first thread. You translated alot of advice into people advocating divorce. What they are really advocating is you clearly standing up for and advocating for your needs and understanding what kind of wife you have.


Yeah, but first thread was before we went to counseling the first time. But since then we love each other pretty deeply. She already thinks I'm an amazing husband and I know she would try to change if we even knew what the change needed to be.

So I'm trying to figure out if this is a mental block type of thing from being abused, or if it's the medication, or if she is just really in the dark about sex. 

When people tell me "you knew she was like this, so that's your fault" or "if she doesn't change, then leave her" that's pretty ridiculous to me. We love each other deeply, but this is one thing that we simply don't know how to fix. We've tried a lot of things and I've read the book that you mentioned in your earlier post.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

treyvion said:


> @Hicks,
> 
> This can be very true. A wife who realizes she has something good at home, might just do everything she needs to do to keep him.
> 
> However some women realize they have to do very little to keep the man at home, they even feed him a bunch of $hit and he keeps on loving her. Women like this may cheat on the husband and have the best of both worlds. A permenant and loving safety net, while they do their affairs out in the world.


I actually do agree with Hicks on this second post of his. His first one didn't help me in the slightest. 

My wife is an award winning writer that wants to spend more time doing freelance writing. I've encouraged her to quit her job (because I make well more than enough for us to live on comfortably) so she can pursue her passions. 

She loves me for that because I'm being supportive and letting her do what she wants, but she also trust me and thinks (and tells everyone) that she has a wonderful husband all the time. She's made her sister and friends quite jealous. 

The flip side of that is that I know she has said something to her sister about our sexlife because her sister brags to her to the tune of "wow we are having a lot of sex lately. how are things with you guys?" I've actually heard that conversation and my wife usually replies "Eh...I don't know. We don't really have time." which is not true.....she just doesn't want to discuss it.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening tk421jag
> Just one thought. If she masturbates and tells you - see if she will let you watch. Both because it would be fun for you and you can see what things help her orgasm more easily. You can join in a bit - kissing and stroking here while she is doing it.
> 
> I know this is just one small part of the problem but it might help.


We've tried that. I've asked her if I can watch and she always pulls the covers over her so I can't see anything.

I suppose that reenforces the fact that she is very self-conscious about her body. I tell her how wonderful she looks all the time and that I want to see her naked and touch her and hold her. But no.....that doesn't help.

Last time she did let me kiss her and hold her while she masturbated, it took 45 mins and nothing happened. Then she accused me of putting too much pressure on her to have an orgasm. Which led to a disagreement again......


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## grays (Jun 24, 2014)

Is she worried that she's fat? It doesn't sound like she really has a weight problem, but if she believes she does or doesn't feel good about her body, that can make it hard to feel sexy.

I am wondering if there's something she's wanting and not getting. My ex really, really wanted me to do this particular thing and was afraid to ask and I swear, it ruined our whole sex life for 25 years (not that there weren't other issues that could have been catastrophic, too). So, apparently I just happened to do this thing for him three times in our first ten years together, just by chance, because I thought it was fun. He says now (now that we're broken up he can be brave and talk about it, sigh) that he tried to make sure I knew he was having a good time in the hopes of me ever doing it again... omg it was such a drama. And it wasn't until after about 14 years together that he pulled up his big girl panties and actually put this into words and told me what he wanted, but by that time he was so angry at me for not figuring out what he wanted that we never recovered. 

Somewhere in there I also shut down on him because I could tell that he was unhappy with me sexually and he would say cryptic things to me like "in ten years we've only had good sex a few times," that made me feel like a terrible lover. And I could imagine her feeling some of that, too (though it does sound to me like you're bending over backwards not to hurt her feelings or add any fuel to the fire). It was really hard to feel hot for a guy who seemed to be telling me I sucked in bed. 

So, I guess I doubt that any of the stuff that happened w us is actually happening w you guys, but it sounds so similar I just wonder if someone's not hiding something, yk? Or at least there's something on her side you don't know about. Sexual abuse is a possibility, but could be more mundane. 

Also, wanted to say that I am having trouble orgasming because of zoloft. I can do it with a vibe or if I set my mind to it, it's not too bad without, but guy I'm sleeping with can't seem to be bothered. lol He seems to think if it doesn't happen pretty lickety split it's not worth wasting any time on. BUT the truth of the matter is that I don't really care at all. Like really NOT AT ALL. I was worried before I got involved w him bc I had just started on zoloft and just realizing it was an issue and thought it would be awful not to be orgasming during sex. But, eh, it really is not a thing for me. She may feel totally different about it, of course. Also, I don't seem to have any trouble with libido or arousal and anti-depressants can also affect those negatively, so it's possible that her problem is the drugs but not how they're affecting her ability to orgasm.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Your wife is clearly too inhibited to become aroused. Why is she inhibited and does it really matter?
> 
> Ask her if she WANTS to become aroused?
> Ask her if she knows what she wants from you in order to become more aroused?
> ...


You're kinda missing a lot of what I've mentioned.

When she's told me she had a dream about me banging her brains out, later that day I usually try to start something but it almost always leads no where or she just isn't into it. 

We've tried sexting, and she doesn't even know what to say or how to respond. She usually just says "Whoa...ok...ha ha". 

She doesn't talk dirty. Not because or morals or anything but because she just doesn't know what to say. She starts giggling and usually says something like "This is silly." 

She has asked me to be dominant and I definitely have, like last night. But she never seems into it no matter what I do. She always seems like "let's get this over with" or like it's something that we have to do just because we are married. 

Some weeks we seriously don't have time to do anything. She has almost a 1.25 hour drive home from work. When she walks in the door we eat, then we both do freelance work or just goto bed. Sex during the week never happens. Mainly because we are just too tired or we get home too late.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> I was thinking something similar Anon Pink. She just wants you to take her without asking and bang her. However, this might be hard for you to do, since she is always so non-responsive, this probably created fear of rejection for you by now.


You hit the nail on the head. 

Do you guys seriously think that I haven't tried that by now? I did it last night for God's sake and she was both unresponsive and not into it. I was rejected and then she apologized all night and kept saying she doesn't know what's wrong with her because I did it exactly like she likes. I literally grabbed her hand and tried to take her. She seemed to be very surprised by it and then unresponsive. 

When this happens, there is no connection between us. It's me having sex on her, not with her. I might as well be having sex with a cadaver.


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## grays (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this earlier, but another thing to try (and this was actually the thing that got my husband to spill the beans finally) is to talk openly about your fantasies and get her to talk about hers. You may find that it leads to something you wouldn't have thought of that would get her going, or it could turn out that just talking openly about sex is a turn on in itself. Maybe start with your clothes on in a non-threatening kinda situation. In the dark cuddling so you're not staring her in the face if she finds it embarrassing to talk about.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

grays said:


> Is she worried that she's fat? It doesn't sound like she really has a weight problem, but if she believes she does or doesn't feel good about her body, that can make it hard to feel sexy.
> 
> I am wondering if there's something she's wanting and not getting. My ex really, really wanted me to do this particular thing and was afraid to ask and I swear, it ruined our whole sex life for 25 years (not that there weren't other issues that could have been catastrophic, too). So, apparently I just happened to do this thing for him three times in our first ten years together, just by chance, because I thought it was fun. He says now (now that we're broken up he can be brave and talk about it, sigh) that he tried to make sure I knew he was having a good time in the hopes of me ever doing it again... omg it was such a drama. And it wasn't until after about 14 years together that he pulled up his big girl panties and actually put this into words and told me what he wanted, but by that time he was so angry at me for not figuring out what he wanted that we never recovered.
> 
> ...


Wow. You're reply has definitely been one of the better ones. You aren't accusing me of anything or saying this is all my fault. Some folks on here are pretty quick to tell me that I knew she was like this so it's my problem now. 

Maybe it is my fault. But either way, I'd do anything for her because I truly do love her. 

She literally asks me at least 3 times a week "Do I look fat?" My answer is always "Hell no!" or "Good lord, are you kidding? You look amazing dear!" So she definitely doesn't feel good about her body. She's made a lot of effort in trying to lose some belly fat that annoys her, but it hasn't gone anywhere. I could care less if it did. It's not a big deal to me and I never notice it until she points it out and makes a huge drama case out of it.

Above all, I would never purposely tell her anything that would hurt her feelings and I certainly wouldn't just outright say she's a bad lover. I think she kinda knows that I'm pretty experienced and "know my way around a woman" because she's told me she's never tried so many of the positions we've tried that I thought were pretty standard. 

That could be why she just doesn't do anything. Maybe she's afraid of doing it wrong or that she just isn't good enough to do anything other than lay there. 

I don't know. I'm starting to think she doesn't even know what's wrong.

But a big part of me feels like abuse is somehow part of this. She has woken me up screaming in her sleep because she's having a nightmare with her ex-step father in it. Tell me that doesn't sound horrific. 

If he did do something to her, I'm gonna find him and have a little chat with him. Then beat the living daylights out of him.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

treyvion said:


> If someone is non-responsive and rejecting and pulling away alot how in holey h3ll can they expect you to simply dominate and "take it". All that other action makes you think that they'll get angry with you.


Exactly. 

I've tried just taking her. That doesn't work and it's what she's told me she wants.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening tk421jag
I think the problem is that SHE doesn't know what she wants. She wants something, needs something, but can't tell what it is.

This of course makes it impossible for you. 

It could be drugs, birth control, antidepressants - they can suppress sex drive in a lot of people. 

Otherwise a therapists might make sense. You are willing to do what she wants, but that doesn't help until she can figure out what that is.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

grays said:


> I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this earlier, but another thing to try (and this was actually the thing that got my husband to spill the beans finally) is to talk openly about your fantasies and get her to talk about hers. You may find that it leads to something you wouldn't have thought of that would get her going, or it could turn out that just talking openly about sex is a turn on in itself. Maybe start with your clothes on in a non-threatening kinda situation. In the dark cuddling so you're not staring her in the face if she finds it embarrassing to talk about.


Another good reply! Thanks!

That's good advice as well. 

Come to think of it, she hasn't really ever told me her fantasies or anything. I've asked, and she's just giggled and said she doesn't really know. 

Do you think that she's afraid I will think differently of me if she tells me? 

I definitely think she isn't totally comfortable talking about stuff like this. She usually blushes and changes the subject. I'm not sure why though. She cusses like a sailor sometimes and is pretty open about everything on the earth......just not about sex. Odd.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening tk421jag
> I think the problem is that SHE doesn't know what she wants. She wants something, needs something, but can't tell what it is.
> 
> This of course makes it impossible for you.
> ...


That's more than likely it. She's pretty indecisive about everything. She just kinda goes with the flow. 

If I initiated sex with her, and asked her what she would like to do, or what position she would like to try, etc etc....we'd be there all night. This has happened, and the mood gets ruined pretty quickly because every thing I say she replies with "If you want to." I usually say "No, I asked you. What do YOU want?" Then she says "I don't know....I guess I'll just lay on my back." Then it's the same old thing. We do it missionary and she doesn't move, breath, talk, pant, no facial expression, nothing. 

Then after about 10 mins she'll say in a very awkward or "not in the moment" voice, "Are you not comfortable? You're not are you?" Then I respond "I am. I definitely am.....but you aren't seeming very into it right now."

Then she says "Sorry. I guess I'm not." Session over.

It's like a vicious cycle.


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## grays (Jun 24, 2014)

tk421jag said:


> Come to think of it, she hasn't really ever told me her fantasies or anything. I've asked, and she's just giggled and said she doesn't really know.
> 
> Do you think that she's afraid I will think differently of me if she tells me?
> 
> I definitely think she isn't totally comfortable talking about stuff like this. She usually blushes and changes the subject. I'm not sure why though. She cusses like a sailor sometimes and is pretty open about everything on the earth......just not about sex. Odd.


Well, I think I like her a little more now that I know she cusses like a sailor.  

I think it's pretty scary for anyone to talk about their fantasies, and I thought for a long time that my husband would be shocked and maybe horrified if he knew about mine. And he might have been actually, he's been pretty sheltered, and he refused to play around w most of what I threw out there.  I was his third lover, but I'd been around quite a bit more than that. It sounds like you guys have the opposite orientation. If she's willing to talk about her fantasies, I think you should act like it's hot as hell unless it's totally revolting to you. Does that sound awful??? I guess I think she needs a little confidence boost and it is a scary thing to talk about and so personal that it's important that the listener be captivated and impressed and excited about it. 

Maybe you could make it into some sort of game, you tell a story, let her fill in details mad lib-style or something.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Sounds like the weight issue might be a big part of this. How overweight is she? Roly-poly, semi obese? (she really needs to lose weight then). Or, full-figured; but still has a definite waistline?. Since she ran a half-marathon recently, I would imagine it's the second option. She probably doesn't _need_ to lose weight then. She might have a great body.

But if she hates how her stomach feels (you said she thinks it's "too jiggly"), or thinks her butt is too big, or her thighs are too chunky - or whatever - then it doesn't matter what *you* think. I think only women can understand how the body image thing can really screw up sex for them.

It's really good that you HAVE NOT told her how great the other girlfriends were in bed. Along those same lines, I would not watch porn with her either. Being compared to images of sexually emancipated people with perfect bodies is very unlikely to evoke a (positive) response.

I know you've spent a small fortune on lingerie. I don't know what type, obviously. Does she have a couple of "see through" short robes or cover ups. Something she can wear during sex sitting up on you, you can see her flesh, but she gets a little bit of comfort knowing she's not completely exposed? I know you love her body. But it sounds like she doesn't love it at all.

Have sex with a low watt, tinted light bulb (pink, red, orange). Or just one or two candles. Or, in the dark (just to start out with) She might feel really weird being watched. What you said about her masturbating under the sheets, seems to indicate that's the case. I'm not saying you should have sex in the dark forever; just that it's a place to start.

Final note, fwiw, women get "performance anxiety" too. Like we're supposed to have an orgasm everytime and scream and moan in ecstasy. I am very much in favor of those things. But, sometimes it feels great just to be "penetrated". You enjoy getting your neck massaged right? Most people do. There is a parallel there to having vaginal sex without coming to orgasm. (No, it's not completely analogous, of course). It simply feels good to have a muscle "stroked" over and over again. So, if your wife ever says that she enjoyed having sex with you, even though she didn't O, that could be the truth.

I hope you can get to the heart of the matter. I am sorry you guys are having these difficulties. But, as you can tell from TAM, you are not alone.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

tk421jag said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I've tried just taking her. That doesn't work and it's what she's told me she wants.


What does "doesn't work" look like to you?

So your wife is inhibited, has body image problems, doesn't orgasm easily or at all with you, but masturbates and even tells you she masturbates?

Maybe I'm missing a lot but this just isn't adding up?


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> What does "doesn't work" look like to you?
> 
> So your wife is inhibited, has body image problems, doesn't orgasm easily or at all with you, but masturbates and even tells you she masturbates?
> 
> Maybe I'm missing a lot but this just isn't adding up?


She masturbates once in a blue moon (once every 3-4 months) and it takes at least an hour. Maybe more. 

You seemed to have skipped the part where I said she is on anti-depressants and might have possibly been abused when she was a child. 

That is really at the heart of the matter because the more and more I think about it, the more I think those are the underlying issues.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

tk421jag said:


> She masturbates once in a blue moon (once every 3-4 months) and it takes at least an hour. Maybe more.
> 
> You seemed to have skipped the part where I said she is on anti-depressants and might have possibly been abused when she was a child.
> 
> That is really at the heart of the matter because the more and more I think about it, the more I think those are the underlying issues.


Possible, but has she been on antidepressants her whole life? If she was having difficulty orgasming once antidepressants started, you'd think SHE herself would make that link? What is she on the antidepressant for? Is she also in therapy? If there was a link between her antidepressant use and her inability to orgasm, and I'm not suggesting there isn't, this would be something she would already know and therefor YOU would also already know....right?

If she was abused as a child, it might help explain her discomfort and inhibitions, but again her masturbating AND telling you about it doesn't fit and doesn't make sense.

I wonder what she says is the cause for her inhibitions, body image issues, and inability to orgasm?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

tk421jag said:


> She masturbates once in a blue moon (once every 3-4 months) and it takes at least an hour. Maybe more.
> 
> You seemed to have skipped the part where I said she is on anti-depressants and might have possibly been abused when she was a child.
> 
> That is really at the heart of the matter because the more and more I think about it, the more I think those are the underlying issues.


Okay so is she going to go to ic.
Sorry you are here it does sound like csa but if she is not going to get help I mean what is there to save on the sex end.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

Ok folks....

I have an update...

My wife and I just spoke, via Google chat, because she is out of town on business tonight.

Chat was a good idea because she is shy about sex and doesn't really seem comfortable talking about things.

Pretty much our entire conversation was put together from suggestions and tips that I collected on here. So thank you for that.

I asked her if she had any fantasies that she wanted to act out, and she said no, not really but asked me about some of mine and said they all sounded reasonable and she would even like to try some of them.

She DID say that she feels really sexy in lingerie, but never really thinks about putting any on but said she wants to work on that because I've bought her so many nice things. That's exciting! 

She said that her anti-depressants are most likely the issue with some of this because her mother was on the same thing years ago and it destroyed her libido. She (my wife) was in therapy for years, mainly because she tried to kill herself for all kinds of reasons that I can't begin to understand. She's been on anti-depressants for almost 10 years. Before me, she hadn't been with a guy in a while.

She also said that there had been no abuse but she would definitely tell me if that were the case. This is huge because I was very worried this was the case.

I told her that I want it to feel like we are having sex together instead of me just having sex on her with no connection. She agreed. I mentioned to her that some of the time she doesn't seem in the moment and she confessed that sometimes she isn't. She is usually thinking of work, or a story she needs to write (she is a reporter for a newspaper), or something. She has attention problems and says that she has trouble focusing. We are very very busy folks but always find time to be together on the weekends, just not finding time for sex. That's a problem we are going to work on. Even on the weekends, we are working on freelance work or something like that.

Another thing....which was very surprising.....was that she said I was simply too large for her most of the time. She said it hurts putting me in her and so we have to go slow for a long long time until she gets used to it. I guess guys always brag about having big penises. But what's the point if it's painful to the woman you love. So going really slow for 15 minutes makes not very exciting sex and things just fizzle out because we both don't seem into it. She said that sometimes it feels like I'm going to split her in half. Anyone got any tips for this??? I'm honestly clueless here.

She said she does have major issues with her body but is working out a lot and trying to change. She isn't really over weight at all. I've been with overweight women (and I told her that honestly) and I told her SHE definitely isn't overweight. I told her that I just want to be all over and want her all over me and I could care less if she feels overweight. I don't think she is at all. So said she is afraid I'm going to be grossed out by all the jiggling. She even said that is she had $10k to have lipo or something, she'd feel better about herself. I told her that she has other things she needs to work on first and surgery isn't the answer.

She also said that she doesn't make noise because she has always had close neighbors or had roommates and never wanted to make them mad or offend them but being loud. It's pretty obnoxious hearing people having sex in the next room I suppose. But I told her let them bang on the damn wall for all I care. I'd rather have loud sex than mouse quiet sex. But she said that's just not her. She doesn't make a lot of noise, but she would work on that because she knows that noise are just cues that a guy works off of. 

So.....there is an entire conversation based on advice and thoughts that I've gathered from here. This was probably a breakthrough of sorts and a conversation that needed to be had a long time ago. I had to think very very hard about how to word things so as to not offend her and she even thanked me for not being critical and making her seem inadequate. I definitely don't think she is in the slightest. But she has realized now that she does have a lot of work to do. 

Any thoughts or advice on everything above?


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## grays (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm happy you guys had a good talk. Even if things aren't all solved it can be a big relief just to get things out and connect over it.

When my ex and I started heading towards separation, my therapist recommended a book called Hold Me Tight by Sue Johnson. Its about how/why people get into bad dynamics with their fighting and how to get out of it. But part of our bad dynamic was that I would just shut down and not even really participate. I was like a deer caught in the headlights and it was really a fear thing. I thought I was the only one who did it and felt awful about myself for it and then, there it was in the book, described my fighting behavior to a T and clearly I was not the only one! So, what you describe about her in bed reminds me so much of how I shut down during our fights that I wonder if reading it could help you guys.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

tk421jag- "Baby, I just want you to tell me what you're really thinking! I love you so much, I'll do anything to make you happy!"

Mrs tk421jag- "Well..... okay.... Here goes. I feel really fat. If we had $10,000, I'd get liposuction!"

tk421jag- "Baby, that's just crazy talk! You have 'other things to work on first and surgery isn't the answer!' Can you please be SERIOUS?"

Mrs tk421jag-


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

grays said:


> I'm happy you guys had a good talk. Even if things aren't all solved it can be a big relief just to get things out and connect over it.
> 
> When my ex and I started heading towards separation, my therapist recommended a book called Hold Me Tight by Sue Johnson. Its about how/why people get into bad dynamics with their fighting and how to get out of it. But part of our bad dynamic was that I would just shut down and not even really participate. I was like a deer caught in the headlights and it was really a fear thing. I thought I was the only one who did it and felt awful about myself for it and then, there it was in the book, described my fighting behavior to a T and clearly I was not the only one! So, what you describe about her in bed reminds me so much of how I shut down during our fights that I wonder if reading it could help you guys.


More great advice. I'll certainly check that book out. She seemed very interested in working on this, which is great.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

NotLikeYou said:


> tk421jag- "Baby, I just want you to tell me what you're really thinking! I love you so much, I'll do anything to make you happy!"
> 
> Mrs tk421jag- "Well..... okay.... Here goes. I feel really fat. If we had $10,000, I'd get liposuction!"
> 
> ...


Her feelings certainly weren't hurt by this and she completely agreed with me that surgery isn't the answer. She is capable of losing weight in other ways if that's what SHE wants. Frankly, I don't care, and she likes that I don't care about it. 

So unless you have anything helpful to say, keep these type of comments to yourself. They are pointless and useless to me.

I've come here for honest help because I wasn't sure where to turn. Comments like yours do nothing for anyone.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

She works out and runs but is worried about weight? You are happy with her weight?

And look, THEY didn't mess up and put her back on the regular dosage. She isn't being forced to take anything. You get on the phone and get another prescription. Getting off of meds takes time and a plan. If she wanted off she would have worked with her doctor to get there. She wouldn't have just swallowed the pills.

Honesty is the most important thing here and calling it what it is must be done if you wish to accomplish anything.

Sounds to me as though IC and MC would do you both good.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Tk, 
Talking to her at length is so very counterproductive to a sex problem. It allows her to chrystallize in her mind all of the things/excuses that can never ever be changed or fixed as the reason she cannot be sexual with you. 

It's like she threw out a bunch of reasons... She's all over the place. It's like she is throwing things up on the wall to see what sticks:
-- Body image
-- Depressed / on medication
-- Mother also lost her libido (genetic)
-- Your penis is too big
-- Her job
-- Neigbors listening

This is why it's up to you to decide what you want, tell her what you want and do things to show her that you will only accept what you want. AND LET HER work through all the things that block this.

Example: If she is not in the moment while you are having sex, what you do is stop having sex and tell her it it is not enjoyable since her mind is elsewhere. Then don't get talky, pouty or huffy.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

tk421jag said:


> Any thoughts or advice on everything above?


Yes!

First of all, great job on having "the talk." I think it went really well; she was open to the conversation, receptive to some changes you want to make, and honest about her feelings.

My advice is to print out that entire last post, and on a separate sheet of paper, write down each "problem area" you discussed. Give yourself a score (from 1-5) where you are at right now, and leave space to score yourselves again in the future, and for comments about changes and how things are going. You addressed lots of issues you want to improve, so write them all down. Such as: 1) Being "in the moment" during sex, 2) Being vocal and demonstrative during sex, 3) Body-image issues during sex, etc. 

Having this on paper, and what you both agreed to and want to work on, is very important. It's so easy down the road for one person or the other to say, "I NEVER said that!" or "I NEVER agreed to that!" Also, it's a way to measure progress and see if you're actually moving forward.

Too many of us spin 'round and 'round, caught in a quagmire with a spouse who "conveniently forgets" everything they agreed to!

I think you're off to a great start...

I must warn you though... you've got your work cut out for you. I had plenty of these same kinds of talks with my ex over the years. Despite working at it and going to counseling, no major improvements in the bedroom. Bottom line IMHO, *some people just aren't very good in bed.*  No amount of talking, pleading, expressing your needs is going to turn them into a great lover. I suspect it has to do with "chemistry" and "spark", and some things just can't be manufactured. Also, a lot of it comes down to their personality. Since you've had previous lovers and you know what "good sex" is, you should be able to tell whether or not you are making progress with your wife.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

BTW, if you're hurting her during intercourse, it's most likely because she's not aroused when you begin. If she's not wet and relaxed, even an average sized penis is going to be painful. So, you need to work on arousing her before you move to PIV sex. If that seems like too big of a hill to climb right now, at least try using a generous amount of lube as a starting point. If sex stops being painful, she may become more willing to allow herself to be aroused by the possibility of having it. But eventually, the two of you will need to figure out reliable ways to get her aroused first.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good eveining tk421jag
The size thing: First of course you can spend more time early on getting her aroused - oral, then fingers, maybe moving to 2 or 3 fingers. You can also try different positions that may be more comfortable for her. 

Back when we very rarely had sex, my wife thought I was too big for her to be comfortable. Then when our sex life became frequent she very much enjoyed it. We also use toys and she started enjoying big, then huge toys. After the novelty of the huge toys wore off she decide that they just made her sore and went back to deciding that I was a good size and wanted me, or similar sized toys. 

So my thought is that even if you have to do a lot more work and maybe not exactly what you want in the short term, as sex becomes more frequent, she will be comfortable with you.


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## grays (Jun 24, 2014)

Well, I guess there are worse things that she could say than the problem is that your penis is crazy huge. If only these were my problems! lol But I'm wondering if the problem is length or girth. lol Not to get too personal or anything... but as a woman I would believe that length could be a problem during intercourse. It can actually hurt to be banged into in the wrong way and too deeply. I think this should be an easy enough fix, though, you guys just need to find positions where you're not hitting her wrong and I'm sure those positions exist. Also, it might be that it's better for her in positions where she's in charge of the depth -- her on top may also solve the lying there doing nothing problem and even get her to figure out how she likes it by having to control it herself, yk? 

If the problem is girth, I almost don't believe it at all. I am curious to hear if there are women out there who've had an issue with too large in that direction. I have never heard of such a thing. Now, it is possible to be uncomfortably thick for oral, but that's a whole different story. The professionals have told me (when I asked why they are always having to find that special speculum that they never use because nobody but me needs it -- I was afraid I was deformed somehow) that I'm exceptionally tight (as long as we're tooting our own horns here  ), but I have never felt any sort of discomfort from girth. I suppose though, we all are different and her experience is her experience. I'd definitely start pouring lube all over the place if I was in your shoes, it's fun to play with anyway.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

tk421jag said:


> . *I mentioned to her that some of the time she doesn't seem in the moment and she confessed that sometimes she isn't. She is usually thinking of work, or a story she needs to write (she is a reporter for a newspaper), or something. She has attention problems and says that she has trouble focusing.* . . .
> 
> She also said that she doesn't make noise because she has always had close neighbors or had roommates and *never wanted to make them mad or offend them but being loud. It's pretty obnoxious hearing people having sex in the next room I suppose.* But I told her let them bang on the damn wall for all I care. I'd rather have loud sex than mouse quiet sex. But she said that's just not her. . . .



If she lives in her mind a lot (she does by what you described here), then don't discount allowing her to talk about "whatever", during sex. If she feels she can only talk "dirty", and nothing else - she can quickly escape into her mind and live there, while you inhabit her body for a while. Let her talk to you about anything while having sex. There was a funny Seinfeld bit about that (Jerry said Elaine liked to talk during sex. But not dirty, just talk about anything)

If she starts to feel good, where it might turn into moans and groans :smthumbup:, but she is inhibited by the fear of the neighbors hearing; then let her have a pillow nearby that she can scream into if she has to. That way she can feel safe with "letting go", and you still get the pleasant feedback of her audibly enjoying sex. Eventually she might not care anymore if people can hear or not. You can also make sure the bedroom window is closed; and maybe play some music, so any sex-sounds don't seem so noticeable.

Good Luck.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

tk421jag said:


> Ok folks....
> 
> Any thoughts or advice on everything above?





tk421jag said:


> So unless you have anything helpful to say, keep these type of comments to yourself. They are pointless and useless to me.
> 
> I've come here for honest help because I wasn't sure where to turn. Comments like yours do nothing for anyone.


Yeah, I was pretty sure that subtlety would be wasted on you.

Let's review.

YOU, tk421jag, are unhappy with your wife's sexual performance. If you doubt this, refer to the title of your thread.

You go on at length, repetitively, about how you love her so much, you'll do anything for her, she can quit her job and chase her dreams, and all that.

You go on in detail about how she has self esteem problems. She asks you if she looks fat way too often. If someone were listening to their wife do that repeatedly and frequently, the little light would go off over their head, "HEY! She really does have a problem, here."

You don't seem to be able to make this connection. Its a nuisance to you- "She knows she's not fat, I tell her all the time. I wish she'd complain about something else!"

And you finally manage to have a serious conversation with her. You can't do it in person. Why is that? Ever looked in the mirror? Maybe you should.

Anyway, after she has opened up and listened and participated as you told her in open, sincere language that she IS A LOUSY lover, and she agrees with, she broaches something really important to her.

And you shoot it down.

And when this is pointed out to you, you find it unhelpful.

And I can hear you saying, "Why that no good NotLikeYou! I TOTALLY DID NOT CALL HER A LOUSY LOVER!" And there's a problem. Because no matter how nicely you put it, your wife, who has low self esteem and high intelligence and who knows that there are problems in the bedroom, heard you call her a lousy lover.

You know why your wife is so quick to say its all her fault? Because she is sick of being told how she doesn't get it done for you. So rather than argue back with you, she just says "it's not you, its me." Because that's the simplest thing to do.

Here's something you're going to find supremely unhelpful.

YOU are a big part of the problem, person.

Anyway, I was going to write a couple of paragraphs about how your wife sounds like a pretty neat person, based on what you have said about her being a smart beautiful accomplished person, and how lots of guys would call that a win right there and be happy.

But that's water under the bridge in YOUR relationship.

The only person you can change meaningfully is YOU, and the only person you're interested in changing is your wife.

So I guess all this goes down as unhelpful, too.

I will apologize for rudely suggesting that your problems might have something to do with you, excuse myself from the discussion, and, well, I guess that's it.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

NotLikeYou said:


> Yeah, I was pretty sure that subtlety would be wasted on you.
> 
> Let's review.
> 
> ...


You know that you're terrible at this, right? Like....really bad. You're only reading the things that are fueling your snide remarks to me. Are you a scorned woman? You need to get over it if you are.

I definitely know I'm a very lucky guy because my wife is smart, beautiful and accomplished. She knows I think I'm a very lucky guy because I tell everyone and I show her how much I adore her and care for her. There is nothing I wouldn't do for her.

I've never told my wife she doesn't get it done for ME. She doesn't get it done for HER and she knows it. That's really what this is all about. I want a moment with my wife where we connect and enjoy each other. She really wants that more than I knew, and we've committed to working on that together. You've made this into me pointing fingers at her and saying that she has all of these problems. That's completely absurd.

We didn't have the conversation in person because she is out of town. Just so you know, we had agreed to also talk in person when she gets back in a few days.

So, while you may think I'm a BIG part of the problem, there are things we are both doing that have caused this. Stress, medicine, being exhausted, and just not making time for it. 

She will tell you that it's completely her fault, and I would quickly dismiss that. It's not her fault completely and I would never ever say that, despite you looking for ways to crucify me. We are both to blame. Whether it's mostly my fault or her fault is neither here nor there. What matters is that we've committed to working on the issues.

Everything I have said on here, I've said to try to get to the root of the problem because I love my wife and she knows that. We've worked so hard on our relationship, and as I said, this was really the only bump in the road. We are very well off financially. We are healthy. We have great jobs. Life is good. It's about to get much much better too. 

And also, just so you know, I took 8 months of therapy for myself to work on my problems. I know when I need to work on myself and my issues. I recognize when there are things that I need to work on personally. It might not be a bad idea for you to consider this if bitterness is your daily mood.

I'm sorry that you can't share a little joy with me and be happy that we are headed in the right direction. 

I doubt I'll be back on this forum. While it was helpful and I did get some good advice, there were far too many people angrily wanting to hash it out with me or trying to voice their own opinions of me rather than offer advice from similar situations or tips on things we could try.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> Yes!
> 
> First of all, great job on having "the talk." I think it went really well; she was open to the conversation, receptive to some changes you want to make, and honest about her feelings.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. Very helpful.

Let me be clear, this isn't a "fix my wife" situation. This is on going frustration that we both have for different reasons. Yes, it may appear that some of the issues fall on her, and she admitted that. But I also have my fair share of issues to work on. Most importantly is that I'm just a busy guy. I work 12 hour days, then go home and do freelance work, and I'm in a band on the weekends. 

I've decided to scale back all of my freelance work so make time for us. That needs to happen.

I honestly don't know how to address some of the issues like being in the moment or being more vocal. But we'll inch our way into those conversations as they happen and we'll be patient about it.


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## tk421jag (Nov 29, 2011)

grays said:


> Well, I guess there are worse things that she could say than the problem is that your penis is crazy huge. If only these were my problems! lol But I'm wondering if the problem is length or girth. lol Not to get too personal or anything... but as a woman I would believe that length could be a problem during intercourse. It can actually hurt to be banged into in the wrong way and too deeply. I think this should be an easy enough fix, though, you guys just need to find positions where you're not hitting her wrong and I'm sure those positions exist. Also, it might be that it's better for her in positions where she's in charge of the depth -- her on top may also solve the lying there doing nothing problem and even get her to figure out how she likes it by having to control it herself, yk?
> 
> If the problem is girth, I almost don't believe it at all. I am curious to hear if there are women out there who've had an issue with too large in that direction. I have never heard of such a thing. Now, it is possible to be uncomfortably thick for oral, but that's a whole different story. The professionals have told me (when I asked why they are always having to find that special speculum that they never use because nobody but me needs it -- I was afraid I was deformed somehow) that I'm exceptionally tight (as long as we're tooting our own horns here  ), but I have never felt any sort of discomfort from girth. I suppose though, we all are different and her experience is her experience. I'd definitely start pouring lube all over the place if I was in your shoes, it's fun to play with anyway.


Ha ha! Wow. 

I think what hurts her is that she isn't quite excited enough, even though we use a lot of lube most of the time. 

It could be a little of both length and girth. She didn't really specify, but she did say it felt like I was going to split her in half. So my guess is both.

As far as positions, I sent her an article I found today about the problem we're talking about. It also mentioned her being on top. She admitted the reason she doesn't like being on top is because of her weight. But that's something she'll need to work on. She's not overweight at all. It's in her head, so we'll have to work on that.

Thank you again for all of your advice! :-D


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