# Remorse: How do you tell if your disloyal spouse is or is not remorseful?



## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

The title says it because I do not know if i see remorse or just guilt and self pity from my DS? :scratchhead: 

How do you tell if your disloyal spouse is or is not remorseful?


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

Well my DS just started to the last week or two. It's the same mood/way she gets remorseful over other things just multiplied 10 fold. She gets quit, she curls up and starts crying. She doesn't want to do anything, and for the next day or two she gets dangerously depressed, and as of late, telling me she does not deserve the kids (which is the real kicker) or myself over and over all day. But I also think its okay, and normal for some guilt and self pity mixed in as well. I am not excusing what my wife did, but what she did was so out of character for her the some of her nearest family is lost on what to think and she is starting to see that her self and in reaction feeling the pity and guilt. 

I don't know if that is helping your question or not. But I guess for me, knowing my wife before the Affair happened is helping me try to read her after.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

There is no infallable way to know if what you are seeing is genuine remorse or not.

What I would start with would be your gut... that's where it all begins. No one knows your spouse quite the way that you do. Do you sense genuine remorse? 

As with all people that mislead, lie or decieve there are always subtle non-verbal cues (facial expressions) which can give you some indication whether the person is being genuine...

People who fake remorse tend to show a greater range of emotional expressions and swing from one emotion to another very quickly - if the base emotional responses are grouped into three categories; Good (happy) /Neutral (neutral, surprise). /Bad (sadness, fear, anger, contempt, disgust) a person intentionally decieving you will tend to swing from category to category very quickly. Particularly from good to bad or bad to good (skipping nuetral). The phenomenon is referred to as emotional turbulence - They will also speak with more hesitation.

study


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

I have read that somewhere as well. Mostly thanks to my interest in the show Lie To Me. I watch for stuff like that all the time now.


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## dadda11o (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks; that helps me too. I posted a thread and got no replies. Feel lost but I know myself better than I know anyone else. If I knew my husband well-enough, I doubt we'd be embroiled in the problems we are. He does the mood swing thing-slams down the phone, walks away and then refuses to talk for days. I've been paying attention; it usually happens when I assertively ask him to follow through with something constructive he said he's going to do to improve our relationship or communication. I also notice that he runs with his anger and next thing I know, I'm being blamed for his failing to keep his word. Sorry, not my fault if your word is worthless...


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

I had the same thing with my wife, she would get very angry if I pushed her and accuse me of controlling etc. Basically there was never any humility. I just didn't get the feeling she was remorseful and my gut feeling was bang on target.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

There are also some qualities/behaviors to look for when someone is genuinely remorseful... They are signs/actions that someone will commonly exhibit (coping mechinisms) when internally healing from an action or decision that they have made which they feel was wrong... Let me see if I can find the list...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Remorse is “When you feel very guilty and sad about something you have done”.

To know what you have “done” to another person means having the capability of putting yourself in their shoes, or walking a mile in their shoes and see and feel what happened through their eyes, mind, emotions etc. In other words it needs the capability of empathy for another person’s situation. Empathy and remorse go hand in hand. Without empathy, there can be no remorse.

Some people are capable of a lot more empathy than others. Those that don’t have any empathy for other people are called psychopaths. Empathy is a large part of being a normal human being.

For those caught in affairs I think their focus is almost totally on themselves, their situation, their feelings. That is, they are totally and utterly selfish and while in that state or mode they do not have any capability whatsoever with empathising with their partner. And because of that they cannot “see or understand” what they have done and the impact it’s had on their partner and therefore do not show any remorse because they are not at all remorseful. In fact, in their eyes you “probably deserved it”. Which is of course the opposite of empathy and remorse.

Bob


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

full disclosure is a good place to start... when she told you, did she say everything, or did it come in bits and pieces?

Her actions... does she appear concerned about your metal health, does she ask how you are coping, if there is anything she can do for you?

Has she every apologized, just out of thin air, or all the acts of sorrow provoked by your conversations... does she initiate the forgiveness process?

that should get you started, if you need more, let me know.

They are questions, not answers.. you can fill them in.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Remorse is “When you feel very guilty and sad about something you have done”.
> 
> To know what you have “done” to another person means having the capability of putting yourself in their shoes, or walking a mile in their shoes and see and feel what happened through their eyes, mind, emotions etc. In other words it needs the capability of empathy for another person’s situation. Empathy and remorse go hand in hand. Without empathy, there can be no remorse.
> 
> ...


I think they call it the "FOG" on here. My wife did not have either for a good week and a half after I found out. Then once I/we decided to work things out, and I moved in she slowly started to show more and more, until it just "hit" her. We were having a long talk, I was telling her how I felt, and told her I still love her, and it just came on. A


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm going to assume that the situation that allowed for the cheating has been dealt with in some way. ie no more coming home late from work, no more FaceBook, etc. I think the swings in behavior are probably a good indicator. I'd also add more generally that deeds speak louder then words (as always). Some people cant express themselves verbally so do you see a real change in them? Is their spiritual energy back with you and the family or are they still somewhere else. Are they humble and more ready to be partner with you rather then a combatant? Do they seem to want to make up for what they did? On your side you cant be holding it over them everyday. They have to know there is a way back.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Bigwayneo said:


> I think they call it the "FOG" on here. My wife did not have either for a good week and a half after I found out. Then once I/we decided to work things out, and I moved in she slowly started to show more and more, until it just "hit" her. We were having a long talk, I was telling her how I felt, and told her I still love her, and it just came on. A


Personally I think it takes an Oscar winning star to fake remorse. We know it when we see it And once it’s happened the whole world opens up to a true and heartfelt reconciliation, everything’s possible type of thing.

Bob


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

OK, list of things a remorseful person does, or is not reluctant to do...

1. A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean". 

2. A remorseful spouse is openly accountable for their actions and seeks to identify and make changes to insure that this behavior does not reoccur. (They feel genuine pain, therefore they seek to prevent this pain from reoccuring. (normal human response to pain - AVOID IT) (No genuine pain = No reason to seek a solution to avoid repeating that pain).

3. A remorseful spouse will seek to "work", not only on themselves but on general life responsibilities. A remorseful spouse faces the responsibilities of thier day-to-day life and will often show increased motivation to meet those tasks. The work is often approached in a more "humble" way by the remorseful spouse. 

4. A remorseful spouse will not object to limitations (i.e. transperency) set by the faithful spouse as a result their actions and in an effort to promote the healing of the violated trust. 

5. A remorseful spouse faces the pain they have caused. A remorseful spouse will allow you to express the intesity of the feelings and hurt their actions have caused without justifying, minimizing or blame-shifting.

6. A remorseful spouse seeks forgiveness and respects the process of forgiveness often takes time. They will not be impatient or pressure the injured spouse to say "I forgive you" and will never exhibit a "get over it!" attitude.


These are obviously not hard cold "musts" for a spouse to qualify as genuinely remorseful... I reread it and sounds like the "6 commandments!" lol. I typed it all out myself using artocles and data I have absorbed from all over the place..., I hope this gives you a "roadmap" of some indicators though....


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Remorse is “When you feel very guilty and sad about something you have done”.
> 
> To know what you have “done” to another person means having the capability of putting yourself in their shoes, or walking a mile in their shoes and see and feel what happened through their eyes, mind, emotions etc. In other words it needs the capability of empathy for another person’s situation. Empathy and remorse go hand in hand. Without empathy, there can be no remorse.
> 
> ...


Wow I really like how you put this in words! That really puts my ex H in the psychopath. He has not expressed one ounce of empathy or remorse and his affair/relationship is still going on and costing him lots of money(and I am not talking here my alimony or child support). His gf is a professional gold digger


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> OK, list of things a remorseful person does, or is not reluctant to do...
> 
> 1. A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean".
> 
> ...


That's good, very good.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> OK, list of things a remorseful person does, or is not reluctant to do...
> 
> 1. A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean".
> 
> ...


Can we make this into a sticky please?


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

I think that the search for 'remorse' (whatever that is) is a futile endeavor. I think that most people who cheat only regret getting caught. I think that most genuinely regret the hurt that the exposure of their cheating has caused.

But to expect someone to apologize for wanting sex with someone else is inconsistent with human nature.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> OK, list of things a remorseful person does, or is not reluctant to do...
> 
> 1. A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean".
> 
> ...


This is pretty good list. I looked it up a bit myself and you seemed to sum it up well. I agree it should be a sticky. Or at least maybe make your original post the sticky and get rid of all the chatter, haha.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Great responses, i agree on the list and the sticky for at least the core of this thread, not because i started it, we might save some others alot of google time. 
Sadly I am not seeing most of this from my W. The crying was more during her withdrawal. Now she is just bottled up about the A. One of the behaviors that led to the A. Hopefully the new MC will help.


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## thetwoofus (Feb 17, 2011)

AFEH said:


> That's good, very good.


I agree very well said
l have been on the recieving end and are very lucky that l can see those signs

good luck


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

The scenario. Conversation, I push on anything R related it causes crying.
She states over and over she has/is asking for nothing.
She says I can leave her alone?
She still wants to bottle it all up.

She sits on the couch curled up crying, cringes when I mention divorce or any reference to marriage ending.

so is it Self Pity, Depression, Withdrawal, or remorse?


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

You know... I gotta tell you... one of the 5 MC my wife and I saw had us write letters to eachother. Hers was about everything she did, full disclosure and how she felt. Mine was about what she did and how it made me feel.

This was to get everything out in the open... There was stuff i really didnt want to hear in her letter. And I called her a ***** in 12 different languages... but it was healthy to get all that out.

Why am i saying that in this thread? well... it was a huge step in her being able to show remorse. Once she truely understood how I felt and the impact of what had happened, she was able to express her feelings on what she did, in a way that related directly to me.

Might wanna take a second to calmly express your feelings, so she understands the true impact. that might help


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks, true not sure she gets the full impact it is still mostly all about her pain.

I suppose knowing the definition of remorse helps:

re·morse (r-môrs)
n.
1. Moral anguish arising from repentance for past misdeeds; bitter regret.

remorse [rɪˈmɔːs]
n
1. a sense of deep regret and guilt for some misdeed
2. compunction; pity; compassion
[from Medieval Latin remorsus a gnawing, from Latin remordēre to bite again, from re- + mordēre to bite]
remorseful adj
remorsefully adv
remorsefulness n


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

A little food for thought...

At some point, for a while... she thought what she was doing, was ok to do. There is a reversal of thought process that needs to happen.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

My husband has only done a few of these things, he told me a part of him felt justified at this newest EA because of everything that we had done to each other. He has given me pw's to almost everything, very begrudgingly so, I am waiting on the email, (only because I forgot about it until this morning). He hasn't really shown he's sorry, only said he knew the behavior was wrong and unacceptable. He has let me express my pain, but doesn't seem like it bothers him much, so as usual my situation is hot and cold lol. Hopefully with time...


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> My husband has only done a few of these things, he told me a part of him felt justified at this newest EA because of everything that we had done to each other. He has given me pw's to almost everything, very begrudgingly so, I am waiting on the email, (only because I forgot about it until this morning). He hasn't really shown he's sorry, only said he knew the behavior was wrong and unacceptable. He has let me express my pain, but doesn't seem like it bothers him much, so as usual my situation is hot and cold lol. Hopefully with time...


I know how that goes. For the first week to week in a half my DW did not show anything either. In fact she didn't show much of anything, in fact not even much towards our baby girls either. Then it slowly just started to creep in. It would hit her, and then between hours to all day she would be depressed. It is both (as you put it) "hot and cold". She seems to go more days between those feelings, but when they hit, they hit harder then ever.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Doesn't it suck being grown ups? lol


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> Doesn't it suck being grown ups? lol


Tell me about it. haha.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Yup youth wasted on the young. 

I just wish my DW would reveal something she cries she appears depressed but is it over what she has done or because she lost OM that's the ouch question and is she gonna grow up face it all and take responsibility for it. My only relief is several times she has said sincerely it is not my fault.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

So any thoughts on this behavior pasted from my other thread.

let's weigh in these comments then on remorse vs self pity maybe shame?

Hate myself, if I die (naturally) you get the money (no suicidal thoughts), i don't want the kids to know me in a bad way. Nobody should care about me, I am nothing, I am worth nothing. Answer Yes to wanting me to stop loving her. i can't fixM if I can't fix me. You don't know how I feel all day.
Just worry about you.
And there has been more


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> OK, list of things a remorseful person does, or is not reluctant to do...
> 
> 1. A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean".
> 
> ...


Now is it possible for these things to be expressed more at different times along this journey depending on the DS personality and situation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I love this, my spouse says he "owns" what he did, but has not exhibited any of these behaviors, heartbreaking. There's a difference in acknowledging it, and acknowledging it and actually feeling bad remorseful, THAT is owning your negative actions. Still a couple of weeks later, he's still avoiding dealing with his emotionally messed up self, and I believe he's grieving the fact that the first EA won't contact him because he wasn't truthful with her...that story is on another thread lol. As usual stuck in a stalemate. But I am doing better, day by day. Anyways, I just love that 6 commandments haha.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

I am wondering if more of these behaviors kick in as the "fog" lifts. I have seen more as time passes but she straight up says she just wants to forget ant not talk about it so for those of us dealing with that personality what do you do or look for?
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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

disbelief said:


> I am wondering if more of these behaviors kick in as the "fog" lifts.


Oh I totally believe that. Because while in "the fog" reality isn't being fully grasped, nor are the consequences of those actions.

I genuinely am very remorseful and regretful for what I did to my H, to our marriage, to me. My H has never really expressed remorse for his cheating. I wonder if one day he will tell me he does regret it.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Jellybeans, I don't recall are you D or reconciling?

My W expresed how she was foolish..... I think thag was one sign of her regregt. It would be nice to here a straight out statement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ Divorcing. I wanted to reconcile but he said we should go through the divorce but still be together. I told him it was 100% us trying to work on our marriage or nada. No dice. We will be divorced in a few days.

Yeah I hear you on wanting an apology. I cried more than I ever have in my life to stbx. Wrote himletters, called him, texted him, pretty much any/all I could to express my sincerest regrets for the A. The most I got from him was when I cried when he said they had sex a few times (and I got all the gory details too) "I don't like seeing you like this." Never one single "Sorry."


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Statements I have heard from my W , a sorry, none of this was your fault, I was foolish, I am nothing, I am worthless, you don't have to deal with me, I will just go away, you don't have to care for me or love me. I'm just not sure if all that is remorse, self pity or shame, hopefully there's some regret in there.

JB I hope u can heal through this and it doesn't seem an A turns out to be fantastic for any party involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Jelly, our mistakes don't define us as a person, disbelief, I heard the other night, I am not a good person for you, X, or Y, the other women, my husband is a good man, he's just in the path of hitting rock bottom I believe, I think he's recovering from the EA's, at least it seems to be, he's still in victim mode, it does get better. I just wish all of us could turn the clock back all of us, meaning DS/LS clock, and fix what was wrong. Our lives would be so much better, one of my favorite phrases, that is helpful/makes me mad is hindsight is 20/20 LOL


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

The difference for me was hearing "I am sorry this happened", as opposed to "Im sorry I took a dump all over everything that we had, rewrote history, spent all the money, destroyed my childs life, destroyed a family, and so forth..."


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Ugghh arrgghh!!! And if people would just think before they act none of us would have to post here. Hindsight 20/20 = shoulve stuck with my never get married mantra I had at 21:
Shoo, yeah it would be nice to get that level of the DS owning up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Just saw so many new posts i thought i would kick remorse back to the top. That and I wonder if since the A is a way out for what seems to be alot of low self esteem people, How could those same people ever truly own up to the remorse list. You have to be a strong person to do that.
It takes a confident person to admit being wrong on a small scale so on this large scale hmmmmm.

Remorse or not I am still wondering just not stuck on it.

Brighter days ahead, there's gotta be.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Interesting, I believe weak people can have remorse, they may not beable to openly admit it as "loud" as a stronger person.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

I agree you can be weak and be remorseful I am referring to the real action of admitting it to someone else and validating it and making it real. My W just dropped off the kids my evaluation would be she wants to fix it but she doesn't know how. She has to speak in negatives she has to avoid it took months for her to directly state she was wrong.
If most of these disloyals had just dealt with their issues they wouldn't be at the point of remorse for an A. IMHO
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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Disbelief, have you ever had the thought that in some ways your W may not be sane?

It’s really helped me to see my W as bigger part sane, smaller part insane. Like two people in one person.


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## disbelief (Oct 31, 2010)

Yes I have considered that. Especially when I take all aspects into account including her family medical history.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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