# Retroactive Jealousy. What is it? have you ever had it? What do you do about it?



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

On another thread there has been some discussion of Retroactive Jealousy (RJ) and I thought it was an interesting enough topic for it's own discussion without muddying the waters of the other thread. 

For starters I am open to interpretations of what the definition of RJ is, but for a quick reference, I would say RJ is a negative emotional response to your partner's previous relationship(s) or sexual experience(s) prior to becoming involved with you. 

It can be anything from a slight feeling of discomfort to being a crippling obsession that causes severe discord in your current relationship. 

As was noted by a few posters on the other thread, RJ is often NOT rational and often something you can just somebody that since it was in the past that it has no relevance now. We have seen threads here on TAM where people have been consumed by it and often even they realise it's not rational or the fault of their partner. 

Have you ever experienced it?? How did it come about and how did it manifest itself? How severe was it and what was the impact on your relationship? 

How did you deal with it? Were you able to get over it?

How did your partner respond to it? 

For those of you that have experienced it, please share your experience if you care to and also what advice would you offer someone going through it now?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I have never experienced it and don't know anyone who has but the worse cases of it are strongly associated with Obsessive Compulsion Disorder (OCD). The thoughts cause anxiety which cause more thoughts which cause more anxiety = OCD.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I have a couple of close friends who went through this, but after time it became apparent that they were generally competitive and bitter people, stuck in the past in ways that held them back. And it wasn’t so much about their partner’s sexual pasts and love had very little to do with it. In one case it became an excuse to cheat, resentment towards the spouse for many many things. My friend married really young to someone older. He adored her, which was quite sad to watch. I cut contact with her a long time ago, couldn’t watch the car-crash anymore. 

For example, it extended to other things. ‘I never got to go to university, he did. I never got to travel, I got married young, he’s travelled the world’. 

So there is a dark side sometimes. He/she slept with more people than me, I didn’t get to do that. 

It can extend to friends and family too, jealous about everything and everyone and always looking at what they never had/don’t have as opposed to living in the moment and seeing the good in what they do have. It must be a terrible way to live and can result in disastrous consequences.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I'll break the ice and go first and share my experience with it. I'll be the first to admit it makes NO rational sense and I should theoretically be the last person on earth that should react the way I did but RJ does not operate on the rational plain. It is probably one of the most irrational responses out there. ... but it can be powerful and it can be damaging if left unchecked. 

First a little background. I met my wife through work and knew her casually for several years before any kind of dating or anything. She was beautiful and seemed like she could be nice but had ZERO interest in me whatsoever and even now will tell people she did not like meand that I was "not her type" when we initially met. 

Over time various coworkers kept encouraging us to get together and gave both of us the kick in the butt to get together away from work and get to know each other. 

One night I finally broke down and asked her out properly and once we opened up and started talking to each other we finally hit it off. 

At the time she was in a LTR that was on the rocks and I was dating someone else as well so there is that. She was 25 and I was 29 so it's not like we were kids. She had been with her LTR for many years and it had been pretty on again/off again and she had dated a few others here and there but had mostly been with her ex since she was in high school. 

She was also a bit of a party girl so I assumed there had been some hook ups and what not in there as well. 

I had virtually no illusions of her being a little virgin church girl whatsoever and I was certainly no church boy. I appreciated that she had a level of sexual confidence and sophistication. 

Once we got into a serious relationship and ultimately married, one of her best friend's husband was kind of an obnoxious jerk but in a funny and friendly kind of way, but he would always give her crap about banging one of the chippendales at the club when they came to town one time. He was a local club DJ and kind of player himself and would pretty raz everyone about their less glamorous moments. She and her friends would talk about that night and it would have been within the months or maybe a year prior to her and I getting together, 

(I need to add my wife is objectively beautiful and had worked as a teen model and had been a state-level pageant contestant. It's not unrealistic that a male stripper would take her up on it if given the chance) 

she would always deny it ademantly and say it was one of the other gals in the group and her friend would kind of back her up, but that really didn't bother me anyway and I figured if she had, it was in the past and was just one of those GNO moments and youthful hormones. 

Anyway fast forward about 15 years (roughly 10 years ago), we are heavily in the swinging lifestyle so there is no question that she was a highly sexual person and no question that I fully embraced and appreciated her sexuality. And we had an extraordinarily high level of communication and trust and openess at that time. 

So one night we are out with some friends and having lively discussions of our party days and such and she lets slip about getting down with the stripper at the club. 

I know it makes no sense, but that came out of left field and it me like a ton of bricks. I felt jealousy. I felt anger. I felt disgust. I felt disdain. I felt disrespect for her. I felt disrespected by her. You could basically load up a dump truck of negative emotions and dump it all right on top of my head, I had them all. 

And it made no sense to ME EITHER. I had seen her have sex with multiple men and women in a night with own eyes before and that was fine and dandy. But finding out about some drunken hook up on a drunken GNO months if not a year or so before I even entered the picture felt like a punch to gut. 

She didn't cheat on me. Heck she cheated on her LTR that came long before me. 

It took quite awhile for me to come to terms with that and with self reflection and evaluation of my own thoughts and feelings the best I can come up with is what I was envious of was that for years she really wouldn't even talk to much or give me the time of day and has even openly stated she didn't even like me much when we first met...... but yet she plopped her azz on the bathroom counter and banged this dude that didn't even know her name nor she his. .....and there's the fact that she lied and would get her friends to cover for her and lie for her as well to keep me from knowing. 

And the truth is, if she had 'fessed up to it when her friend's husband first blurted it out, I wouldn't really have cared. I knew she was a party girl. I knew she was a sexual dynamo. A part of me may have even patted myself on the back that I was going home every night was hot chick that a chippendale only got for a few minutes in a stinky old club bathroom. 

I never told her about this. She still doesn't know. I don't know if she even put 2+2 together and figured out that I know about the stripper. I figured it was all my problem and my cross to bear and not hers. 

I do think I went through a period where I lost some faith and respect in her though. Did that bleed over into other areas of our relationship and impact her? I hope not, but I don't know. 

I know when we started to have marital issues and when her desire for me and her libido started to wane,, that if I allowed my mind to go there, it would still hurt. 

That's my experience with RJ. Please feel free to share yours.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I have looked at it and understand it is a real problem but never even came close to it myself.

I did know a guy that helped seriously damage his relationship because he found out his wife had tried anal with a previous partner and wanted it as well.

The thing was, she didn't like it and the previous guy was an ex for a reason. The husband in this case was quite a bit larger than the previous boyfriend and anyone that has an understanding about anal can understand her reluctance to do anal with her husband when she didn't even like it with a smaller man.

They are in the process of divorcing now even though she probably contributed to it but, his RJ over anal sex with a previous, lover contributed.

I did not type that right the first time.

He damaged the relationship do to RJ and wanting to do something she didn't (anal) which contributed to the demise of their marriage though she really sunk it with a nuke.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I don't think you had RJ, she lied to you man.

That's huge to me.

I'm a territorial killer when it comes to sexual exclusivity so we are opposite there but I can handle any past as long as it is in the past and I don't tolerate lying to each other.

Gotta be honest to be with me.

I think that is the real issue is that she lied to you.

Maybe she did it because she was worried about not getting you but it still sucks sewage.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I don't think you had RJ, she lied to you man.
> 
> That's huge to me.
> 
> ...


No, I’ve had years to self reflect on this and it was definitely jealousy/envy etc. 

there is an element of dishonesty to it that added to my disgust a little. but I assume all chicks lie about their sexual history just like guys lie about their ability to wrestle or shoot guns or when their wife asks if something makes her butt look fat. It’s just what chicks do and we men generally support them in that even if we say we don’t. 

I do think there is a difference when a guy makes clear he’s looking for a mate with a limited notch count and a woman intentionally deceives him about her history vs when a gal acts all holy and pure when a group of friends are razzing each other about their party days.

Chicks will even cover their pasts with other chicks and deny what went on behind the door at the frat party even though everyone knows darn well what went on. 

No man is going to tell the full truth on how inept he is with fixing a car or shooting a gun, and no woman is going to tell you the full truth on what she’s done sexually......and that’s probably how it should be.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> No, I’ve had years to self reflect on this and it was definitely jealousy/envy etc.
> 
> there is an element of dishonesty to it that added to my disgust a little. but I assume all chicks lie about their sexual history just like guys lie about their ability to wrestle or shoot guns or when their wife asks if something makes her butt look fat. It’s just what chicks do and we men generally support them in that even if we say we don’t.
> 
> ...


Ok. I don't get it at all though because I've never experienced it and I do require honesty. Lies really piss me off in a relationship and are a non starter.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> I did know a guy that helped seriously damage his relationship because he found out his wife had tried anal with a previous partner and wanted it as well.


Had this same problem myself many many years ago although don’t know about the D size, all she said was, “I really gotta be in the mood for it.”

I wanted to try it because I never tried it but it did maybe bother me (on a scale of 1-10 maybe a 2) that she had done it multiple times before and would not with her own husband; until she did and yeah she really had to be in the mood for it.

Certainly wasn’t worth damaging my relationship over IMHO but people’s mileage may vary.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Ok. I don't get it at all though because I've never experienced it and I do require honesty. Lies really piss me off in a relationship and are a non starter.


Therein lays the rub and what @Sfort was alluding to in the other thread.,. you have to experience it to fully believe in it. Otherwise people try to chalk it up to reacting to dishonesty (which often does accompany it to one degree or another) or they simply don't recognise it's impact because it is so irrational and often makes no sense to anyone else.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Therein l
> 
> 
> Therein lays the rub and what @Sfort was alluding to in the other thread.,. you have to experience it to fully believe in it. Otherwise people try to chalk it up to reacting to dishonesty (which often does accompany it to one degree or another) or they simply don't recognise it's impact because it is so irrational and often makes no sense to anyone else.


No. I do recognize it as a real psychological problem.

The part you related about her lie obscured your actual RJ.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> No. I do recognize it as a real psychological problem.
> 
> The part you related about her lie obscured your actual RJ.


Ok, I've only read the opening post, and this last one (because I have to get up at 4:30am and need to get to bed!), but I want to point out that I believe there is a BIG difference between feeling angry or hurt about a lie, and having it affect you irrationally and in a way you don't expect to feel.

And the only way I can relate to it would be by seeing the similarity RJ has to Body Dysmorphic Disorder, as I mentioned in the other thread. Have you ever seen a starving girl describe how fat she is...?? Everyone else can clearly see that she is dying and has NO fat on her body, however, her unconscious brain is telling her she is fat, and so her mind sees a danger that doesn't exist. And there is NO way for a normal mind to see what she sees, nor understand how she could ever think she is fat. Yet it is VERY real to her.

That is similar to how the mind operates with RJ. The mind perceives a threat that does not exist, and there is NO amount of rational self-talk or pointing out "the obvious" to people who struggle with it. It is something that can bring typically strong, competent, self-confident people to their knees.

And for people who have never experienced it, I have a question for you -- tell me how I can explain to you that fire won't burn you...what words can I use that will make you believe me and convince you that fire does not burn??

That's the force you are up against when you are talking to someone who's primitive emotional brain is screaming "DANGER" at them about something that appears perfectly harmless to you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> Ok, I've only read the opening post, and this last one (because I have to get up at 4:30am and need to get to bed!), but I want to point out that I believe there is a BIG difference between feeling angry or hurt about a lie, and having it affect you irrationally and in a way you don't expect to feel.
> 
> And the only way I can relate to it would be by seeing the similarity RJ has to Body Dysmorphic Disorder, as I mentioned in the other thread. Have you ever seen a starving girl describe how fat she is...?? Everyone else can clearly see that she is dying and has NO fat on her body, however, her unconscious brain is telling her she is fat, and so her mind sees a danger that doesn't exist. And there is NO way for a normal mind to see what she sees, nor understand how she could ever think she is fat. Yet it is VERY real to her.
> 
> ...


I like the comparison you made.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Ok. I don't get it at all though because I've never experienced it and I do require honesty. Lies really piss me off in a relationship and are a non starter.


Conan I believe it is about the lie.You know I have dealt with RJ forever. It has subsided in the past few years (although it lingers in the background hoping for another limited engagement from time to time). My wife did not disclose that she had a turbulent sexual and intimate relationship with someone who was a close friend. When we were engaged she lead me to believe it was a couple of times with some guy and a lousy experience. 

What it really was a months long seesaw relationship that was on the down low. He ended it then came back to her and wanted to marry her but she was pissed and said no. He left pissed and married someone my wife did not like to piss her off. What she really wanted was for him to fight for her. 

I fear I was part of the game they were playing. You know the best way for me to get rid of my RJ would be to stay off this site.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RClawson said:


> Conan I believe it is about the lie.You know I have dealt with RJ forever. It has subsided in the past few years (although it lingers in the background hoping for another limited engagement from time to time). My wife did not disclose that she had a turbulent sexual and intimate relationship with someone who was a close friend. When we were engaged she lead me to believe it was a couple of times with some guy and a lousy experience.
> 
> What it really was a months long seesaw relationship that was on the down low. He ended it then came back to her and wanted to marry her but she was pissed and said no. He left pissed and married someone my wife did not like to piss her off. What she really wanted was for him to fight for her.
> 
> I fear I was part of the game they were playing. You know the best way for me to get rid of my RJ would be to stay off this site.


Sorry to be part of the trigger. I get it in your case for sure. I can understand it at least.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I don't have RJ but there can be overlap with someone who still has a foot in the past, like my ex.

I'm OK with you having a past, I just want to feel like it's behind you and you're fully present and committed to me right now.

Anyone who knows my story knows this was an issue with my ex. He was insecure and used to talk about exes in ridiculously inappropriate ways and I often felt like one in a line. Indeed, he told me toward the end if the marriage that he married me because he figured I was the best he could do. He's probably right about that but I digress.


As for doing things with exes but not one's current partner I think a lot of men read too much into that. I've tried anal and wasn't crazy about it and have no desire for it now. Fortunately my bf has never shown an interest in it but if he did I would not want it nor would I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I'm not crazy about him and don't look forward to sex with him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RJ does not have to have any dishonesty or surprise revelations to occur. 

In the thread I referenced earlier, the OP had known about his wife’s previous relationships for roughly 18 years before it became problematic for him. 

I grew up in a tiny Midwest farm community in the middle of nowhere where everyone basically knew everybody since birth. I knew a number of people who got with their partner and then just couldn’t get past their previous relationships.

So yes, a surprise revelation well into the relationship as well as dishonesty can be factors and components of the distress. But sometimes RJ can occur without any surprise revelations or previous deception. 

It probably is one of the most irrational emotions that people can experience in a relationship.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> It probably is one of the most irrational emotions that people can experience in a relationship.


There are many irrational emotions (and mental conditions) that people experience. The only reason they're irrational is that we do not yet understand them. 

You can't "cure" RJ. It has to be managed, if possible. It's not always possible.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

Retroactive Jealousy implies that you are envious of your partner's relationship with another person--that the relationship was deeper, more meaningful, and sexually exciting.

That clearly doesn't apply to all these scenarios (but is a real thing for sure)

Rationally speaking, a guy should be happy his girl had meaningful LTRs --it demonstrates that she can have successful, long-term relationships. Unless she is comparing you to her ex, or pining for what came before, there is no issue (same would be for women looking at their boyfriend's previous relationships)

That wasn't the problem in my case. I married at 30 and my wife was 32, so we had previous lives for sure. I knew about _some_ of her sexual history before we married, but years later got curious about the rest of it. My N count was 7, and she told me hers was 12-15

ouch

she also told me she had some one-night-stands in college

double ouch

there was even an abortion at age 18 (which I did know about before we married--it almost broke us up)

and here is where I started getting upset. When we were dating, she took it slow with me. We didn't kiss until the 2nd date and didn't sleep together until a couple months in (like the 6th date maybe?), so I said to myself "she makes me wait, but the hot guys in college certainly didn't have to wait". I confronted her on this one night and an argument ensued.

and then there is the issue regarding condoms. Studies have shown that women do not insist on condom use if the man is very attractive --so here we had a situation where she was making rules for some guys (aka me) and breaking rules for hot guys (even though it was many years earlier)

This is just reality: women sleep around in their teenage years and in their 20s and then "settle down" when it is time for marriage. Most women have dark sexual secrets that you don't even want to know about. 

Now women will complain and say guys do this too, which is in some cases true, but the vast majority of men do not have the same access to sex as women do. Likewise, most men are looking for serious GFs pretty early on --there isn't this need to be "free"

I came to terms with what my wife had done and put it to rest. I am not the "bad guy" for having standards, and much of this RJ stuff amounts to gaslighting men into accepting bad situations.

Our pasts matter: promiscuous women have a much higher divorce rate and marital unhappiness.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

My first wife went crazy with it. It's a long story, but she ended up meeting the girl I dated through high school and the first half of college, who ultimately broke up with me - she couldn't handle the distance. We were back in my hometown to say goodbye to my aunt who was in her last days fighting cancer. We were at a brew-pub, kinda wallowing, and there was a massive party going on, kinda like a high school reunion, and my ex-gf was there along with a bunch of other old friends I hadn't seen in years.

My ex-gf clearly still had a thing for me, and my wife kinda just went crazy after that. She had an old bf that didn't live too far from us and she ran into him about town. It happens from time to time. It never bothered me. But, she kept trying to make plans to meet up for coffee with him in secret, you know, to see if he still had a thing for her, more or less. I knew about it and kept finding ways to get her to not go - I'd offer to go to the store with her, etc.

I really didn't care, but it was the secrecy behind meeting up that bothered me. So, I finally quit trying to get in the way, and when she met up for coffee with him, I showed up 10 minutes later, dropped divorce papers in front of her told her she could have him if that's what she wanted, and that was that. I wasn't willing to live my life that way.

There were other reasons to get divorced. We had massively different love languages (I learned long after we'd divorced what that was). We just weren't quite right together, but that was the straw.

It's not all bad though, she's still one of my best friends, the best co-parent ever, and she's responsible for my wife and I being married today in that she's the one that told me to give my current wife a chance when I didn't think I was ready to date anyone, let alone this particular woman.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think this just shows what wussies we all are as modern men- and I say that as a man who does suffer from RJ and jealousy etc. Our lives are so cushy this is all we have to worry about? 

Maybe we should spend our time pondering God/eternity/what we want our tombstone to say on it, etc... 

We sound like a bunch of sex obsessed babies... just sayin'.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> I think this just shows what wussies we all are as modern men- and I say that as a man who does suffer from RJ and jealousy etc. Our lives are so cushy this is all we have to worry about?
> 
> Maybe we should spend our time pondering God/eternity/what we want our tombstone to say on it, etc...
> 
> We sound like a bunch of sex obsessed babies... just sayin'.


well there is some truth to that

we should NOT be putting sex before everything else, or even romance. 

I have often said that we need to evaluate a woman's character, her skills as a wife and mother, and her deeply held convictions and ideology before all other things. In your case, it would include her religious convictions.

I know a lot of guys who married a girl because she was "hot" and had a decent career. Sorry, that just doesn't cut it.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> I think this just shows what wussies we all are as modern men- and I say that as a man who does suffer from RJ and jealousy etc. Our lives are so cushy this is all we have to worry about?
> 
> Maybe we should spend our time pondering God/eternity/what we want our tombstone to say on it, etc...
> 
> We sound like a bunch of sex obsessed babies... just sayin'.


You are WAY off the mark of understanding this if you think it has anything to do at all with sex...because sex is really only the TARGET that the fears and insecurities that someone is dealing with has landed on.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Manner1067 said:


> well there is some truth to that
> 
> we should NOT be putting sex before everything else, or even romance.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, this WOULD NOT reduce most of the suffering from actual Retroactive Jealousy, because the base cause of it is IN the person and is usually (but not always) triggered by some stressful event.

I've heard of RJ in men who's wives were homeschooled virgins...and their husbands suddenly became unable to cope with the idea that they could have THOUGHT about wanting another man.

There is NO rational way to deal with it or prevent it. It is NOT intellectual. It is an instinctual response to "danger" that DOES NOT make any sense, most times even to the person suffering from it!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> You can't "cure" RJ. It has to be managed, if possible. It's not always possible.


I believe this to be absolutely TRUE for most people, in the same way that you can never "cure" Eating Disorders (Body Dysmorphic Disorder).

I will ALWAYS be anorexic, because the fears/beliefs/thinking that triggered it in my teens will never be completely changed in my subconscious brain. Just like with RJ, the mental process of BDD is actually a faulty coping mechanism. Almost like a broken pathway in how the brain processes what is actually a threat. 

I have learned how to talk to myself when those fears and insecurities bubble up, and how to cope with them in a different way, so that I don't slip back into coping with them by using anorexic behaviors, which my adult mind KNOWS is much more damaging than those insecurities (or than "being fat"). But it's ALWAYS there.

I watched a show where this huge, muscular young guy (I think he was a football player) was brought to actual screaming and crying when his friends brought a lobster in - he was trying to cure himself of his debilitating fear of lobsters, and had asked them to put one on his lap after he tied himself into a chair. Well, they couldn't even get CLOSE to him, and he was having a full-blown meltdown.

They were laughing (and I'm sure he was too, after, because he had posted it online), but I thought it was awful to watch...because I could see what was happening to him. The way he reacted was as though he was absolutely going to DIE. They might as well have suspended him over a 3000ft canyon and started cutting the rope...
However, HE WAS NEVER IN ANY DANGER...there was NO real threat!!! He could have crushed that lobster with his hands! But the fear was coming from deep inside his primitive emotional brain, and could not be reasoned with.

THAT is the same emotional process that our brains go through with all fears, and when something happens that causes a "snag", just like a skip in a record, our brains can get stuck responding the same way to that fear, whether it makes sense or not.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Manner1067 said:


> Retroactive Jealousy implies that you are envious of your partner's relationship with another person--that the relationship was deeper, more meaningful, and sexually exciting.


I completely agree with this description. 



> and here is where I started getting upset.


Were you in any way triggered when you started writing that sentence?



> I came to terms with what my wife had done and put it to rest.


Would you consider yourself as no longer having RJ symptoms, or, in less accurate parlance, "cured" of RJ?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Sorry to be part of the trigger. I get it in your case for sure. I can understand it at least.


No triggers involved and you have always been one of the most responsible posters on this site.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> As for doing things with exes but not one's current partner I think a lot of men read too much into that. I've tried anal and wasn't crazy about it and have no desire for it now. Fortunately my bf has never shown an interest in it but if he did I would not want it nor would I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I'm not crazy about him and don't look forward to sex with him.


I was jealous of the other guy(s) because I envied that she did that with/for them but not me. But had she never done it I don’t think it would have caused issues in our marriage, it’s more like disappointing.

If I was to enter into a new relationship now I’m in the same boat where I have no interest after having tried it. So unless she specifically got off on it I would never mention it.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Closest I've had to RJ is being lied to about her past. This was in my 20s. She put herself out there as a more traditional type. Luckily I found out from a friend of mine that in school her nickname was Huffy. Why? Because Huffy was the brand of bicycle anybody could afford to ride.

I do believe past performance is a decent indicator of future actions. So if a woman has had a ton of partners then I would not consider her for a serious ltr. Fwb, sure no problem there. I guess you could sum it up as I truly believe you can't make a lady of the night into a housewife.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Al_Bundy said:


> Closest I've had to RJ is being lied to about her past.


And that's not RJ. As you said, it's lying.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Al_Bundy said:


> Closest I've had to RJ is being lied to about her past. This was in my 20s. She put herself out there as a more traditional type. Luckily I found out from a friend of mine that in school her nickname was Huffy. Why? Because Huffy was the brand of bicycle anybody could afford to ride.
> 
> I do believe past performance is a decent indicator of future actions. So if a woman has had a ton of partners then I would not consider her for a serious ltr. Fwb, sure no problem there. I guess you could sum it up as I truly believe you can't make a lady of the night into a housewife.


That’s not really RJ. That’s being lied to and being sold a bad bill of goods.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

Sfort said:


> I completely agree with this description.
> 
> 
> Were you in any way triggered when you started writing that sentence?
> ...


If I start thinking about my wife's past, and I am in the wrong frame of mind, I might get upset, but that is rare

Logically speaking, if I had purity-spiraled when I was younger, and insisted on some very low N-count girl from a religious, conservative family, I likely would never have gotten married at all. I was not religious when I was younger, and in my teenage years to my early 20s, I was very rebellious and wild. "Good girls" were not drawn to guys like me lol


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I was jealous of the other guy(s) because I envied that she did that with/for them but not me. But had she never done it I don’t think it would have caused issues in our marriage, it’s more like disappointing.
> 
> If I was to enter into a new relationship now I’m in the same boat where I have no interest after having tried it. So unless she specifically got off on it I would never mention it.


I think RJ is lessened if the guy feels he is getting "her best" --ending up with a wife who has a wild past isn't as big of a deal if she goes out of her way to be a dynamite lover, keeps the relationship exciting, etc.

But if you end up with a woman who did wild, sexy things in her past (public sex, roleplaying, oral / anal, talking dirty, bdsm, or even threesomes) and yet now wants to be the vanilla wife in bed, that is a big problem. Such a situation screams "settled for a guy who is a provider", and it typically ends up in divorce court.

The same would be true for women I would imagine. No wife wants a husband who used to take his girlfriends to exotic locations for wild sex, pamper them with thoughtful gifts, etc., and yet never does that for his spouse. 

It changes everything


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Manner1067 said:


> I think RJ is lessened if the guy feels he is getting "her best" --ending up with a wife who has a wild past isn't as big of a deal if she goes out of her way to be a dynamite lover, keeps the relationship exciting, etc.
> 
> But if you end up with a woman who did wild, sexy things in her past (public sex, roleplaying, oral / anal, talking dirty, bdsm, or even threesomes) and yet now wants to be the vanilla wife in bed, that is a big problem. Such a situation screams "settled for a guy who is a provider", and it typically ends up in divorce court.
> 
> ...


Yeah I guess. I mean when we first started going out I probably could have hooked it up then because we were doing much wackier stuff most of which she will not do now. So I guess in a way I am now even RJ of 24 year old me.

I don’t think I even asked her about trying anal until we had been married 5+ years. Had I done it during the NRE period it probably would have not been a big deal but I never thought of it or was interested then. I probably was watching too much porn.

I think overall you nailed it. I don’t care what she did before but if it gets shut off only to me then it feels bad, as long as it isn’t abusive or painful.

Anal is often described as painful/unpleasant however my wife didn’t give me that as a reason even if that was the reason. If she just said, “That **** straight up hurts I’m not doing it again.” well then that’s that.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I guess. I mean when we first started going out I probably could have hooked it up then because we were doing much wackier stuff most of which she will not do now. So I guess in a way I am now even RJ of 24 year old me.
> 
> I don’t think I even asked her about trying anal until we had been married 5+ years. Had I done it during the NRE period it probably would have not been a big deal but I never thought of it or was interested then. I probably was watching too much porn.
> 
> ...


I suppose one analogy would be the guy who performed oral on his GF, then gets married.

Wife asks him for it, and he says, "that's nasty, I'm not doing it again"

so the previous lover got to do things the spouse isn't allowed to do. Lame situation for sure


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Manner1067 said:


> I suppose one analogy would be the guy who performed oral on his GF, then gets married.
> 
> Wife asks him for it, and he says, "that's nasty, I'm not doing it again"
> 
> so the previous lover got to do things the spouse isn't allowed to do. Lame situation for sure


Yes, assuming the GF is not the same woman as the wife.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm not a professional psychotherapist. But I'm not going to let a little thing like that stop me from sharing my insightful (and frankly brilliant ... and humble) perspective. At some point in our lives, arguably more than likely as children, we tend to hitch our sense of self-worth, self-value, and self-fulfillment EITHER to external entities (people, circumstances, things) or we learn to derive those things internally. A behavioral code. Faith. Refusal to submit or give up when adversity hits, which of course it always does.

I strongly suspect, and would be curious if anyone afflicted by the condition would care to just open themselves up ... should be fine. It's just us. And the internet ...

Can you relate to, identify with, or acknowledge the notion of deriving your own contentment, self-satisfaction, or sense of worth as being overtly or covertly governed by the feelings, actions, and impressions of forces that are not derived internally by you?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Deejo said:


> Can you relate to, identify with, or acknowledge the notion of deriving your own contentment, self-satisfaction, or sense of worth as being overtly or covertly governed by the feelings, actions, and impressions of forces that are not derived internally by you?


Say that again a little more slowly.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Sfort said:


> Say that again a little more slowly.


Do you need more commas?

Trying to determine if there is a fundamental characteristic or feature that lends to triggering RJ. Speculating that a potential commonality would be the 'Nice Guy' factor. The man who performs or behaves in a particular manner within a relationship not because that is simply who he is at his core, but instead does so believing he will be rewarded. Things such as a covert contract. "If I take the kids to all of their events today and cook her favorite meal, she will think I'm an incredible husband, and she will want to be on me like a hobo on a ham sandwich." (The guy in this example is setting himself up for disappointment and failure, because he prescribing his value according to metrics his partner isn't even aware of)

Instead of simply believing, " I am an incredible husband." And if she can't or won't see that, it's likely time to cut her loose and move on.

I'm guessing that doesn't help. But ... I used my words.

I'm wondering if the former sort of guy is MORE subject to being bitten by the RJ bug as opposed to the latter guy.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> Closest I've had to RJ is being lied to about her past. This was in my 20s. She put herself out there as a more traditional type. Luckily I found out from a friend of mine that in school her nickname was *Huffy*. Why? Because Huffy was the brand of bicycle anybody could afford to ride.
> 
> I do believe past performance is a decent indicator of future actions. So if a woman has had a ton of partners then I would not consider her for a serious ltr. Fwb, sure no problem there. I guess you could sum it up as *I truly believe you can't make a lady of the night into a housewife.
> *



Just curious. What nickname did your friends have for a guy who sowed his wild oats before marriage?

Can you make a manwhore into a husband?


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Just curious. What nickname did your friends have for a guy who sowed his wild oats before marriage?
> 
> Can you make a manwhore into a husband?


Newsflash, it's a double standard. One of many that life has to offer.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> Newsflash, it's a double standard. One of many that life has to offer.


To some degree. I don't care for promiscuous men.....I have no desire to feel like one in a long line.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> To some degree. I don't care for promiscuous men.....I have no desire to feel like one in a long line.


Trashy is unattractive for either gender. But would it be safe to say you probably wouldn't want a man no other woman would want? You also wouldn't want to feel like he was with you because he didn't have any other options and just said "well I guess she'll do...."


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> Trashy is unattractive for either gender. But would it be safe to say you probably wouldn't want a man no other woman would want? You also wouldn't want to feel like he was with you because he didn't have any other options and just said "well I guess she'll do...."


Sure, but wouldn't that work both ways?

What guy wants a woman nobody else wants or one that decides that he'll do because she couldn't get what she really wanted? Men are here on TAM all the time complaining their marriage is sexless because their wife settled for a provider.

But one with a lot of experience is also one with a lot to compare their current partner to. Ideally one has enough experience to know what they want and finds this in their spouse, but some people worry that they were settled on and don't really measure up.

I suspect OP feels this way, thus my other post.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> I guess you could sum it up as I truly believe you can't make a lady of the night into a housewife.


Sometimes people choose not to change but sometimes they do.

I'm not a proponent for promiscuity in anyone but I use to be and Mrs. C was to probably a lesser extent.

I've found that a lot of, maybe even most, women respond a little differently to different men.

The same woman could easily have different characteristics she possesses enhanced or hindered by different men.

Mrs. C didn't look good on paper but has been an excellent wife to me for nearly 26 years and a committed and loyal mate for nearly 30.

She had two failed marriages and several failed relationships before meeting me.

You can eject the beta provider idea where a woman has her wild years and then settles for dependable.

When she met me, I rode a motorcycle and was the kind of guy that could clear a group of a hundred just by telling them to go.

Real life is what anyone makes it. Formulas and patterns are interesting to talk about but they certainly aren't always reality.

I don't advise anyone to live like I lived but I am that guy. I could have made a wife out of a woman with almost any past.

My life is certainly proof.😉


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Sometimes people choose not to change but sometimes they do.
> 
> I'm not a proponent for promiscuity in anyone but I use to be and Mrs. C was to probably a lesser extent.
> 
> ...


There are of course exceptions. Sometimes people jump off the 13th floor of a building and live but generally speaking it's not a great idea.

I think it also depends on when you meet that woman. Meeting her in the midst of her party years will be very different if you meet her after. Sometimes we do tend to wise up after life knocks us around a bit. 

So while I'm sure somewhere out there is a guy who met a woman at club, had sex with her in the bathroom, then they ended up happily married for 40 years, I doubt that scenario usually plays out like that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> There are of course exceptions. Sometimes people jump off the 13th floor of a building and live but generally speaking it's not a great idea.
> 
> I think it also depends on when you meet that woman. Meeting her in the midst of her party years will be very different if you meet her after. Sometimes we do tend to wise up after life knocks us around a bit.
> 
> So while I'm sure somewhere out there is a guy who met a woman at club, had sex with her in the bathroom, then they ended up happily married for 40 years, I doubt that scenario usually plays out like that.


A better analogy would be that jumping from the 13th floor is a bad idea unless you're Captain America. Then it's no thing.😉

You have a tendency to define women by some of the popular formulas I've seen floating around.

There are a couple of truths in them here and there but I've regularly dismissed and disproved many.

I know some of the problems with everyone these days is trying to separate and categorize everyone.

Real life doesn't adhere.

I've seen it being claimed that single mothers aren't very high value. Real life shows that you can't make that call on that information alone.

Attitudes and personalities are usually the biggest determining factors.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> When she met me, I rode a motorcycle and was the kind of guy that could *clear a group of a hundred* just by telling them to go.


Flatulence? My son has a friend who can do that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sfort said:


> Flatulence? My son has a friend who can do that.


😆


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> A better analogy would be that jumping from the 13th floor is a bad idea unless you're Captain America. Then it's no thing.😉
> 
> You have a tendency to define women by some of the popular formulas I've seen floating around.
> 
> ...


True but sometimes formulas are popular for a reason. For example if someone is just getting into lifting and they want to gain muscle/strength then I advise them to follow the stronglifts 5X5 program. Does that work for everyone, of course not but it's generally a solid formula. 

I do get there exceptions and we as individuals have to decide when it's worth it to look for the exception. Which nothing wrong is with that as long as we are aware. 

As far as single mothers (or fathers) go I think depends on what the other person is looking for. For me I don't want to raise kids so I've had fwb situations in the past with single moms, but it didn't go any further. I also never gave the impression that it would. I'm not mad or angry at them, I just have zero interest in being a step parent. To bring this back to the OP, I also don't want to be in a serious relationship with someone where their ex can interject themselves into the relationship at will. Now that I could see as a form of RJ. It would feel as if no matter what that guy would always have her on speed-dial no matter what.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> True but sometimes formulas are popular for a reason. For example if someone is just getting into lifting and they want to gain muscle/strength then I advise them to follow the stronglifts 5X5 program. Does that work for everyone, of course not but it's generally a solid formula.
> 
> I do get there exceptions and we as individuals have to decide when it's worth it to look for the exception. Which nothing wrong is with that as long as we are aware.
> 
> As far as single mothers (or fathers) go I think depends on what the other person is looking for. For me I don't want to raise kids so I've had fwb situations in the past with single moms, but it didn't go any further. I also never gave the impression that it would. I'm not mad or angry at them, I just have zero interest in being a step parent. To bring this back to the OP, I also don't want to be in a serious relationship with someone where their ex can interject themselves into the relationship at will. Now that I could see as a form of RJ. It would feel as if no matter what that guy would always have her on speed-dial no matter what.


I don't see that as RJ...that's just not wanting to deal with baggage. Nothing wrong with that.

My bf has never been married and has no kids....no baggage and it's fantastic. My boys are basically grown so they don't infringe on our time and while I'm on decent terms with their father I don't deal with him unless there's an event or something son related to discuss, which is not often.

I would have no interest in a guy who kids weren't grown or almost grown or who had more then an amicable business relationship with their kids mother. No kids...no reason to be involved at all.

No unnecessary baggage accepted here.


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## adaptivesoda (Aug 19, 2021)

Old thread, but these are my beliefs as to why some people have RJ:

1. They are overly competitive. They want to feel like their spouse sees the RJer as the best thing that ever happened to them.o them, it's a competition.
2. Emotionally insecure. The RJer is worried that the spouse values their past experiences more than them. To them, the more more relationships the spouse had in the past, the greater chance that the spouse will be pining for someone else.
3. Jealousy. Straight up jealousy. This one is highly coupled with irrational thinking. The RJer tends to over-exaggerate their spouses previous relationships and lovers. 
"His **** was much bigger than mine, so my wife must have enjoyed it more. I don't satisfy her nearly as much as he did."
"She was much better in bed than I am. He must be imagining he's with someone else from his past when we have sex."
4. Paranoia. The RJer fears that their spouse still has a thing for their past partner and may be secretly talking to them or would leave the RJer on a moments notice if that past partner expressed any interest in the spouse.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

adaptivesoda said:


> Old thread


It's not _that_ old. 

Since you brought it up, though, it's interesting that a couple of people I've been working with privately have made some progress, but then they drop out of the conversation. (One guy stopped communication before we got to the most important part.) Either the pain was too much to deal with, or I'm a lousy helper. I hope it was the former and not the latter.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> It's not _that_ old.
> 
> Since you brought it up, though, it's interesting that a couple of people I've been working with privately have made some progress, but then they drop out of the conversation. (One guy stopped communication before we got to the most important part.) Either the pain was too much to deal with, or I'm a lousy helper. I hope it was the former and not the latter.


I doubt it has anything to do with YOU at all -- emotional work is HARD, and that makes many people hesitant to deal with it at all! Also, people can go through times when they feel "better", and so they think they have conquered what they are struggling with, even though they haven't.

You should write a book about what has helped you! Or at least a thread...


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I doubt it has anything to do with YOU at all -- emotional work is HARD, and that makes many people hesitant to deal with it at all! Also, people can go through times when they feel "better", and so they think they have conquered what they are struggling with, even though they haven't.
> 
> You should write a book about what has helped you! Or at least a thread...


I may write a mini-book one day. A thread here doesn't really help because people who mean well but who really don't understand the problem chime in and distort the message. That's why I've been working with people privately. Even then, I still learn new things all the time. It's an insidious problem.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> On another thread there has been some discussion of Retroactive Jealousy (RJ) and I thought it was an interesting enough topic for it's own discussion without muddying the waters of the other thread.
> 
> For starters I am open to interpretations of what the definition of RJ is, but for a quick reference, I would say RJ is a negative emotional response to your partner's previous relationship(s) or sexual experience(s) prior to becoming involved with you.
> 
> ...


yeah a few times and it's totally ridiculous. Like when wife told me of what she did in a hot tub in Key West with a boyfriend long before we got together. I mean, I was with a longterm GF then. Don't know why i felt the RJ. Totally weird. Got over it. but wish she'd do that with me in a hot tub, LOL


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