# What is a submissive wife?



## FirstYearDown

What do the men on TAM think of submission in a marriage?

Sometimes I think that most men want a woman, who does not challenge them and quietly obeys them at all times. I know this is irrational and unfair, but please understand that is what I have been exposed to. I find that most men cannot handle a woman who stands up for herself and what she believes in. A woman who does not take crap is seen as a b!tch.

For example, my brother married an Asian woman. He says that his wife "doesn't give him any trouble" and that she is "nice and quiet".  She is very meek and it troubles me that he went looking for someone who is slightly afraid of him.

One of my cousins remarried a woman more than ten years his junior. He is a staunch Christian and his first wife was "disobedient" by his own admission.  It sickens me to see how whispery and subservient his new wife is. He loves it that way too.

I had an ex that often told me that I stood up for myself too much. This man tried very hard to control me and used his age as the reason he I "needed to listen."

A real man is not threatened by a strong woman with her own opinions. My husband and I share decisions; the final say goes to him, depending on what the issue is. I consider my husband's feelings in everything I do and some women have accused me of letting him boss me around. I respect my husband, so I will not make large purchases without his input. I also refrain from spending too many evenings without him, since he enjoys my company. Though I have never been into dance clubs, when I am invited to one, I do not go out of respect for my marriage and my husband. We believe that married people should not go to places that are meet markets. After all, I don't want drunk guys trying to paw me or pick me up.


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## Lon

To me, it is not about authority at all, submissiveness does not put one spouse ahead of the other, does not make the dominint one better. In almost all partnerships it functions better when the partners each play to their strengths and in most cases one partner simply is better at setting an overall agenda and/or ensuring the goals being met follow that agenda - I think the traditional view is that men are better at this and better at taking the lead on one issue at a time and women tend to be able to juggle the details and ensure everything runs smoothly better... however that is by no means always the case.

I think sometimes some generalities can have some value - for me in my failed marriage, early on my W was happy, preferred to be the passenger but also needed her freedom to pursue her own hobbies, she was happy when I could reassure her that everything was going to plan always provided and took care of all the bllls, when there was something she wanted I took the steps to make it happen. Eventually though this stopped working, I was burning out, for whatever reason, be it attraction to me, respect, stagnancy or the way those all get exacerbated once children come into the picture, I felt I couldn't keep her happy (it should never have been my role in the first place I realize now), but when I couldn't handle the "lead" anymore I desperately wanted to step out of the way, to let her take over, to just completely submit (the exact word I always came up with when I felt the marriage was in trouble). And it was a deep, lasting change within me when I got to that point, hormonal even. I never even thought of myself as a dominant one in the marriage, or her as the submissive, but I realize now that was definitely a significant part of our dynamic, when everything runs smooth no party ever notices it, there is no chauvanism, no mistreatment, it just all clicks.


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## ryansdad

I view submissive as more of a derogatory term. My wife is spanish/hispanic, and traditionally in her culture, women will bend over backwards to take care of their husbands.

She is no different as she does everything she can to be the best wife and mother she can possibly be and make sure that my son and I are happy, even if its harder on her.

That being said, because she is that way, I do everything in my power to do the same for her. And we have always had a very good relationship.

I think if just one spouse is "submissive", and the other spouse takes advantage, then you are not going to have a happy relationship. But if both spouses do try and put the others needs first, and are aware that technically a marriage should be 50/50, but in reality sometimes it may be more like 70/30, and are both aware and o.k with this, then i believe the relationship will be awesome in all aspects.

Hope this helps.


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## RandomDude

Strong women are hard to find, women who are consistently strong are even harder. I've only met very few to my standards. To be honest I found most "strong" women to be actors, they are stubborn, demanding and selfish. Sure they take no crap, but that's not what makes them b-tches.

Take my wife for example, she knows how to dish back crap in my face, and yes she's very stubborn - but she's still reasonable; she won't tell me to get f--ked just for the sake of it or lashing out over some BS (and if she does she apologises). She's always been demanding yes, but I admit she does also give as much as she gets or at least tries too, she can be selfish sure - but then so can I, and so can everybody be selfish from time to time.

She's reasonable, appreciative, loving, caring and principled. Considering how much sh-t we've been throughout the years both with each other and against the world -> she's more then proven her strength. Any of these so-called "strong women" who "don't take crap" wouldn't have lasted.

When people wonder why I still stand by her despite the times when her darth wifey side does come out, that's why - her good qualities balance out the bad, qualities which I found to be rather rare to get all in one package. Also, as folks mature, it seems just as men are tired of these "strong women" and go for the nicer submissive alternatives, women are also tired of these actors "bad boys" and go for the nice guy alternatives.

My wife is not an actor, nor is she submissive, she's just a strong woman at core. Well... although she has gone weaker over the years *sighs*


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## that_girl

While I like to take care of my family and husband, I have strong convictions that I will not sacrifice for anything. I am not a b*tch, I just know what i know and unless someone can show me a good argument, I won't change my mind on my convictions (everything from politics to personal beliefs).

I have learned how to be strong without being judgmental or condescending. I think growing older has something to do with that though.

I have learned to voice my opinion without putting other opinions down and how to not take criticism to heart and use it as a learning tool for personal growth. 

I can take care of myself, if need be, and my husband knows that. I do, however, make it very clear that he is wanted in my life because I love the way he takes care of me. It lessens my burdens and I try to do the same for him.

I wouldn't say I'm submissive, because the things I do, I choose to do...

I am submissive in bed though  I love that my husband takes the lead in the bouduoir.


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## FirstYearDown

RandomDude said:


> Strong women are hard to find, women who are consistently strong are even harder. I've only met very few to my standards. To be honest I found most "strong" women to be actors, they are stubborn, demanding and selfish. Sure they take no crap, but that's not what makes them b-tches.
> 
> Take my wife for example, she knows how to dish back crap in my face, and yes she's very stubborn - but she's still reasonable; she won't tell me to get f--ked just for the sake of it or lashing out over some BS (and if she does she apologises). She's always been demanding yes, but I admit she does also give as much as she gets or at least tries too, she can be selfish sure - but then so can I, and so can everybody be selfish from time to time.One of my greatest strengths is I can admit when I am wrong.
> 
> She's reasonable, appreciative, loving, caring and principled. Considering how much sh-t we've been throughout the years both with each other and against the world -> she's more then proven her strength. Any of these so-called "strong women" who "don't take crap" wouldn't have lasted.Well, I have stayed with my husband through unemployment, money woes and family of origin issues. He respects that I have stuck by him. When I speak of not taking crap, I mean that nobody can walk all over me.
> 
> When people wonder why I still stand by her despite the times when her darth wifeyLOL side does come out, that's why - her good qualities balance out the bad, qualities which I found to be rather rare to get all in one package. Also, as folks mature, it seems just as men are tired of these "strong women" and go for the nicer submissive alternatives, women are also tired of these actors "bad boys" and go for the nice guy alternatives.Just because I am strong, it doesn't mean that I am not nice. I love to cook for my husband, compliment him and enjoy him immensely in bed.
> 
> My wife is not an actor, nor is she submissive, she's just a strong woman at core. Well... although she has gone weaker over the years *sighs*


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## RandomDude

Then you're fine, most women however, do not share your quality, so I wouldn't exactly say no to your brother's or cousin's decision. There's simply not enough quality women to go around, sometimes one just has to take what they can get as it's not exactly up to just their preferences alone - they have to be realistic. 

Or, they simply have never met anyone who blew their minds away. That's what happened to me until I met wifey, and hell did she really mess up my world!!!


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## As'laDain

i half expect my wife to submit when i know she is thinking in emotional terms and i am thinking in logical terms, and only concerning things that affect our future. finances being the prime example, my attitude is "listen to me or learn for yourself". although i would prefer she just listen to me, i have no problem letting us go broke the day after payday so that she can better understand where i am coming from. lately, she lets me make the big choices, and yet at the same time is making better financial decisions herself. funny how that works.


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## Stonewall

If the relationship is stable and transparent enough; you both should recognize the talents of the other and submit accordingly. My W is a very strong personality but knows when to submit. while I am the consummate nice guy who wants to make her happy all the time and have to make myself switch to Alpha rather than submit all the time.

It is an interesting dance we engage in.


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## Jazzercise

I have been known to be a submissive type of wife and I can say from experience that it isn't fun, nor do men really want that. My husband knows he can say and do basically whatever he wants and he uses that to his advantage often. I'm the perfect wife but not the best friend/partner in crime. He goes back and forth between telling me he can't respect me because i let him walk all over me, to begging me never to leave because I'm the best woman he's ever met. it's exhausting. lol! I believe relationships should be equal in dominance and submission...know when to step up and when to step down. I'm working on it.


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## Arnold

That would be a wife who submits.Check out submissive in Webster's.


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## Arnold

Jazzercise said:


> I have been known to be a submissive type of wife and I can say from experience that it isn't fun, nor do men really want that. My husband knows he can say and do basically whatever he wants and he uses that to his advantage often. I'm the perfect wife but not the best friend/partner in crime. He goes back and forth between telling me he can't respect me because i let him walk all over me, to begging me never to leave because I'm the best woman he's ever met. it's exhausting. lol! I believe relationships should be equal in dominance and submission...know when to step up and when to step down. I'm working on it.


Read "No More MS Nice Gal". You may need to be more alpha.


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## Arnold

that_girl said:


> While I like to take care of my family and husband, I have strong convictions that I will not sacrifice for anything. I am not a b*tch, I just know what i know and unless someone can show me a good argument, I won't change my mind on my convictions (everything from politics to personal beliefs).
> 
> I have learned how to be strong without being judgmental or condescending. I think growing older has something to do with that though.
> 
> I have learned to voice my opinion without putting other opinions down and how to not take criticism to heart and use it as a learning tool for personal growth.
> 
> I can take care of myself, if need be, and my husband knows that. I do, however, make it very clear that he is wanted in my life because I love the way he takes care of me. It lessens my burdens and I try to do the same for him.
> 
> I wouldn't say I'm submissive, because the things I do, I choose to do...
> 
> I am submissive in bed though  I love that my husband takes the lead in the bouduoir.


Do you guys ever trade glasses?


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Do you guys ever trade glasses?


HA! Can't. He is nearsighted, I am farsighted.


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## FirstYearDown

Jazzercise said:


> I have been known to be a submissive type of wife and I can say from experience that it isn't fun, nor do men really want that. My husband knows he can say and do basically whatever he wants and he uses that to his advantage often. I'm the perfect wife but not the best friend/partner in crime. He goes back and forth between telling me he can't respect me because i let him walk all over me, to begging me never to leave because I'm the best woman he's ever met. it's exhausting. lol! I believe relationships should be equal in dominance and submission...know when to step up and when to step down. I'm working on it.


Nobody is perfect.


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## RandomDude

> but not the best friend/partner in crime.


Reminds me of the times I told wifey she would have been great by my side back in the day, and she just gives me the -.-

Oh well


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## Anubis

When it comes to the details and implementation, there are so very many different possible answers to "what is a submissive". All of the comments shared here illuminate possible expressions and issues.

I am in a relationship that has a large and clearly defined D/s (dominance/submission) component to it. I am the dominant party and she is submissive to me. The roles fit our natural personalities and tenancies. I've been hesitant to comment in this thread as I am concerned that my explanation wouldn't do it justice and leave readers with the wrong impression.

What it isn't - we don't engage in many things people associate with the BDSM / D/s sub-culture. We're both really boring, vanilla, professional people in most respects. But we do know people in that lifestyle, and they've been a good resource for us for learning about power dynamics in relationships, as well as things not to do.

What it is - an ongoing honest conversation between the two of us about what our relationship is and isn't, about boundaries and roles, expectations and responsibilities. It's a conversation that has run on for three and and half years and shows no sign of ending. It has removed a great deal of the ambiguity from our relationship and we both appreciate that.

What it isn't - a means to silence the other person or engage in selfishness within the relationship. 

We have the specific concept of "a voice" where dissenting opinions, anger, concerns, or whatnot will be heard by the other even while submitting. We wont allow ourselves to blame/hold the other responsible for failure to "just know" or "read our minds". 

What it is - ongoing work, that doesn't necessarily feel like "work", every single day to strengthen, fix, and grow the foundations of our relationship. As the person "in charge" of many things, the buck stops with me. The power exchange portion of our relationship makes me responsible for her in many specific areas. I've been pushed as a person to make the best possible decisions, and do it with consistency and integrity. I strive to be somebody that I would look up to myself. I don't get to take a day off from the responsibility.

My fiance works hard and pushes herself to obey me and follow my lead because she trusts me at a deep level. Many times she has said this specific quote: "you take better care of me than I do". The power exchange goes both ways - respect and trust are given and earned at both ends.

What it isn't - stifling for the submissive party as a person. Since entering this relationship with me she's grown and improved greatly on many personal fronts: She went back to school and got a Master degree. Significant health and fitness improvements. Began a well paying career in a high tech field. Reconnected with her estranged father and is now very close. Made tremendous progress in her self-image and has new friends and social life as well as several other specific things that would fall under 'personal development'. 

What does it mean for me as the "dominant"? One part of my job as boss is to help her achieve all these things. Sometimes pushing her. Sometimes carrying her. Sometimes it's doing all the laundry. Don't get me wrong, being in charge has defiantly its perks  , but they are earned and there is no resting on laurels.

We are both extremely happy with our situation. We can not say if any part of it would be right for anyone else, but it works for us.

I feel like this description leaves out as much as it explains. Oh well.


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## Kevan

Anubis, thank you. It's incredibly refreshing to read of a relationship like yours on a general forum such as this. I completely understand your hesitance to risk giving the wrong impression. But if anybody gets the wrong impression from your post, it will be due to their own preconceptions and prejudices and not from actually reading your words.



> What it is - ongoing work, that doesn't necessarily feel like "work," every single day to strengthen, fix, and grow the foundations of our relationship.


I hope everyone would agree that this is a healthy component of any relationship. I think what those who don't have dominant or submissive desires should understand, is that those who do _must_ acknowledge them and bring them into the work.


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## SimplyAmorous

Anubis said:


> "you take better care of me than I do". The power exchange goes both ways - respect and trust are given and earned at both ends.


This is how it is in our marraige too, I FEEL this way....I do not have a problem with the word submissive -at least not in regards to my husband.....he deserves my submissiveness as he has earned it in words not expressable. 

So long as I am under the hands of a GOOD man who truly cares about me, my needs, our family and wisdom in living a thriving productive honorable life. Take that away, I would not at all fair weather being submissive . We need to be going in a "good" direction or I would feel assulted and likely cause ALOT of trouble, I would likely jump off the ship & swim away from such a man. 

I am a very strong minded woman - when I want something or to accomplish a goal, I can be like a pit bull in going after it. I don't take unfair treatment well, or sitting down. My husband will even say I am a "force to be reckoned with". 

But I have learned over the years, when HE tells me something, I had better LISTEN, cause it generally comes to no good when I am foolish enough not too. Which hasn't been often, cause I am pretty sensible. ....

..... But I have lost $$ trusting a friend (against his warnings), even summoned to court for talking to both my Aunt & her husband during custody troubles -they both kept calling me! He warned me it was going to BITE my a**, I wasn't needed to testify anyway, but after that I got an unlisted #. Being too nice & helpful is not always wise. 

On our 1st trip to Disney, he warned me I was going to get a speeding ticket, lo & behold I did ! I was lucky the officier didn't throw me in jail, he took pity on seeing all those kids in our back seat. My husbands way is to ALLOW me, not force, but he heartily enjoys giving me the "I told you so " with a smug smile bringing me to my knees-in a little humility. So I have learned through the years, he IS brighter than me many times. 

Though I have saved us too -in some pretty significant instances as well. We are a team, but he is the HEAD, even if I have a bigger louder more assertive mouth . 


I know if I fall, he is there, he will carry me through anything, He is the more patient, he is the more stable as I tend to get emotional , as us women do. He is my ROCK.


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## I Know

FirstYearDown said:


> What do the men on TAM think of submission in a marriage?
> 
> Sometimes I think that most men want a woman, who does not challenge them and quietly obeys them at all times. I know this is irrational and unfair, but please understand that is what I have been exposed to. I find that most men cannot handle a woman who stands up for herself and what she believes in. A woman who does not take crap is seen as a b!tch.
> .


someone who quietly obeys me and never challenges me would be really boring. Most successful couples have a defacto leader. But you would likely not even recognize it after meeting a couple. Submissive is a relative term in these cases. Plus Usually there a separate spheres of influence and expertise. Certain things just don't interest me and some don't interest my wife. So we have separate areas of leadership. 

As for men can't handle strong women: Men can't handle crazy screechtards. If that is what you think is strong then OK men can't handle them. bitces are not strong women. bitces are passive aggressive vindictive little mean people. Smart men stay far away from these people.

a strong woman can be compassionate and empathetic as well. This is goodness. This is what men want. No man wants his wife to be so submissive that she is incompetent and needs constant attention.


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## I Know

SimplyAmorous said:


> This is how it is in our marraige too, I FEEL this way....I do not have a problem with the word submissive -at least not in regards to my husband.....he deserves my submissiveness as he has earned it in words not expressable.
> 
> So long as I am under the hands of a GOOD man who truly cares about me, my needs, our family and wisdom in living a thriving productive honorable life. Take that away, I would not at all fair weather being submissive . We need to be going in a "good" direction or I would feel assulted and likely cause ALOT of trouble, I would likely jump off the ship & swim away from such a man.
> 
> I am a very strong minded woman - when I want something or to accomplish a goal, I can be like a pit bull in going after it. I don't take unfair treatment well, or sitting down. My husband will even say I am a "force to be reckoned with".
> 
> But I have learned over the years, when HE tells me something, I had better LISTEN, cause it generally comes to no good when I am foolish enough not too. Which hasn't been often, cause I am pretty sensible. ....
> 
> ..... But I have lost $$ trusting a friend (against his warnings), even summoned to court for talking to both my Aunt & her husband during custody troubles -they both kept calling me! He warned me it was going to BITE my a**, I wasn't needed to testify anyway, but after that I got an unlisted #. Being too nice & helpful is not always wise.
> 
> On our 1st trip to Disney, he warned me I was going to get a speeding ticket, lo & behold I did ! I was lucky the officier didn't throw me in jail, he took pity on seeing all those kids in our back seat. My husbands way is to ALLOW me, not force, but he heartily enjoys giving me the "I told you so " with a smug smile bringing me to my knees-in a little humility. So I have learned through the years, he IS brighter than me many times.
> 
> Though I have saved us too -in some pretty significant instances as well. We are a team, but he is the HEAD, even if I have a bigger louder more assertive mouth .
> 
> 
> I know if I fall, he is there, he will carry me through anything, He is the more patient, he is the more stable as I tend to get emotional , as us women do. He is my ROCK.


Well put. Submissive does not mean incompetent doormat. It just means that he considers and uses your input to make decisions. Then you both implement them.


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## RandomDude

^ I call that being reasonable, not being submissive.


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## FirstYearDown

I Know said:


> someone who quietly obeys me and never challenges me would be really boring. Most successful couples have a defacto leader. But you would likely not even recognize it after meeting a couple. Submissive is a relative term in these cases. Plus Usually there a separate spheres of influence and expertise. Certain things just don't interest me and some don't interest my wife. So we have separate areas of leadership. :iagree:My husband and I are the same.
> 
> As for men can't handle strong women: Men can't handle crazy screechtards. If that is what you think is strong then OK men can't handle them. bitces are not strong women. bitces are passive aggressive vindictive little mean people. Smart men stay far away from these people. Smart men also know the difference.  It sounds like you are intelligent enough to do so. Why did you automatically assume that I don't know what strength is? I agree that b!tches are not strong, but I have met men who told me that I "stood up for myself too much and needed to listen to them at all times" I wanted a partner, not a father. I am assertive, not aggressive. I do not mind handing over the reins to my husband when he clearly knows more about a subject or issue. Some men truly want a doormat and unfortunately, I have noticed that this is the rule, rather than the exception. For example, my aforementioned cousin divorced his first wife because she was too "disobedient". Now he has a young wife that seems to be afraid of him. Thank God my husband is as smart as you! :smthumbup:
> 
> a strong woman can be compassionate and empathetic as well. This is goodness. This is what men want. No man wants his wife to be so submissive that she is incompetent and needs constant attention.I have so much compassion that sometimes it becomes a problem, since people have taken advantage of it. Now I have learned to be more selective about who reaps the benefits of my kindness.


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## I Know

I think you do know appropriate strength and when to use it, but you indicated that you get criticized for it. 

About your cousin and his wife: you can't assume that she finds the situation offensive (being a doormat). Sometimes when those doormats are given some autonomy and influence over the direction of things, they become very nervous and don't know what to do. What looks to you to be an awful way to live, the doormat sees as very comforting. Some people feel safer when they are serving others. Not my cup of tea. But it works for some folks. 

Cheers!


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## RandomDude

> I agree that b!tches are not strong, but I have met men who told me that I "stood up for myself too much and needed to listen to them at all times" I wanted a partner, not a father. I am assertive, not aggressive.


They asked you to listen, they didn't ask you to submit. However, if you have listened, and they can't understand your point of view, then that's their problem. Still, I do wonder about your rather broad generalisation of most men wanting submissive women. As I mentioned before, there aren't enough of strong women to go around, what do you expect men to do?

There's plenty of b-tches and plenty of doormats. And to be honest if I haven't met my wife I would probably have given up on women a long time ago too, stopped looking for love, and continued the good o' FFF (find 'em, f--k 'em, forget 'em). Many men simply don't believe strong and worthwhile women could exist, I know I lost my faith too.

I also never had anything against breaking the hearts of those who I find pathetic, b-tches or doormats. Strength is the only thing I can respect, so I remained a player. But what did I find in my adventures? No strength, no depth, no fun, just the same o' BS shallow personalities. And even those who seemed "stable" feared what lies outside their sheltered lives haha.

So I believed that no woman can blow my mind away... until... meh

I do not lie when I tell my wife that she has absolutely no competition. And the funny thing is whether she can be strong or weak nowadays first impressions still last, even if at times I'm holding onto nothing of a memory of who she once was. My point is that you can't blame men when women too are contributing themselves to this problem.

Be proud of your strength, but you should understand that not many women have what you have.


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## Havesomethingtosay

I think the OP is submissive..... Won't go dancing out of respect for her husband, all final decisions are his and other examples..... Of course she then sees more submissive examples and thus can rationalize her situation.

I am sure you ask all those sexless husbands and they'll tell you their spouse's aren't submissive.

Amazed how submissive those women answering in this thread are....


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## andsosoddy

women are also tired of these actors "bad boys" and go for the nice guy alternatives.


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## RandomDude

> women are also tired of these actors "bad boys" and go for the nice guy alternatives.


Oy! That's my quote -.-

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/511950-post4.html


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## FirstYearDown

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I think the OP is submissive..... Won't go dancing out of respect for her husband, all final decisions are his and other examples..... Of course she then sees more submissive examples and thus can rationalize her situation. I never ONCE said that all final decisions are my husband's.:scratchhead: We make big choices together. I also mentioned that I was never into dance clubs before I met my hubby, so it is also a matter of personal taste.
> 
> I am sure you ask all those sexless husbands and they'll tell you their spouse's aren't submissive.
> 
> Amazed how submissive those women answering in this thread are....Why? Every woman has her own path to a happy marriage. What may not be your cup of tea may work for someone else.


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## Anubis

In *EVERY* relationship, there is a power dynamic. I think a lot of people, especially in first marriages, don't give it the study, appreciation and respect it warrants. If not recognized and paid attention to, it can shift and be a source of great dissatisfaction. Some of the d/s aspects of my personal relationship can be seen as an extension of, or complementary to, "alpha" and "manning-up" and "leading". It is not a substitute for any of the other things a relationship needs to be healthy and successful.

In any event, the dynamic we have as a couple is one of the most studied, understood, agreed upon, and constantly updated things we've ever experienced. Not only are our needs being met, but we both feel that we're getting winning hands out of the deal.


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