# Woman's point of view needed



## txhunter54

Ok, I've posted threads in the Sex in Marriage and Men's clubhouse. Thought I'd ask here too.

I'm wondering if I'm just about at the point of giving up on my marriage. But, I want to say I've tried everything before giving up.

The biggest issues are lack of communication and her low sex drive. She won't tell me what's wrong, won't go to counseling and won't provide any ideas on how to increase intimacy. When we do have sex, it is very infrequent and not fulfilling as she really doesn't participate much at all. 

I've worked on Nice Guy, Man Up, Reducing the thermometer, done a physical transformation (gotten in great shape) and all my efforts seem for naught! I get compliments from other women on my physical transformation. But, not from my wife. I've tried to get her to go out on dates. But, she prefers to stay at home and order in vs. going to a restaurant. 

I've asked her how we can increase intimacy and she responds with "I don't know". I suggested buying some sexy lingerie to get in the mood but she said it would be a waste of money as she wouldn't wear it. 

I definitely feel like we are roommates more than husband and wife. She doesn't like holding hands and kisses other than good bye in the morning and good night at night seem to be an inconvenience to her. 

She loves to quilt and could do that 24/7 including quilting up until bedtime thus leaving no time for any fun before falling asleep. 

Any suggestions? I'm very tired of trying to make it work when there seems to be no improvements.


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## seeking sanity

This may not be a solvable problem. It may be time for you to tell her that you've gone to great efforts to improve the marriage and that since she is not willing to participate it is time to end the marriage.


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## turnera

We need more info. How long married, kids, ages, family life before meeting you, mental issues.


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## txhunter54

Married 28 yrs. Two boys, 26 and 23. I grew up in a two parent family with three younger sisters. No mental issues on my side. No drug or alcohol issues. I rarely have a beer, glass of wine or scotch. My wife was raised by an alcoholic father. Her mother died shortly after she was born. She has one older brother. She does not take drugs and only has alcohol socially in small amounts. Both of us are non-smokers too.


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## SunnyT

l'd have to poke her with a stick a bit before throwing in the towel. 

I'd ask her if she'd mind if you found someone who would participate in dating, intimacy and sex outside the marriage. I'd tell her that you are lonely as well as horny and not ready to sit in a rocking chair. 

If that doesn't spark any decent options from her, that is your answer. I'd think it would be time to part ways. Life is too short. I sure don't understand people who don't GET that once the kids are gone.... we get another chance to live it up!!! It's not time yet to be old and tired.... its time to have fun, enjoy each other, enjoy life, enjoy ALOT of sex! 

Seriously, if you've done all you can (and it sounds like you have) and you can live with the amount of effort you've put in to trying to make it better..... just make the separation/divorce as simple as possible. She may not like the idea, but if she is content the way things are, odds are that she will be content without you there. Sad.


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## anonymiss

Sounds like an older version of what I could have turned out to be. Maybe you are not speaking her Language of Love. Have you read that book?


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## txhunter54

No, I haven't read the book "Language of Love". I've read several marriage help books though. Just not that one.


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## SimplyAmorous

SunnyT said:


> Seriously, if you've done all you can (and it sounds like you have) and you can live with the amount of effort you've put in to trying to make it better..... just make the separation/divorce as simple as possible. She may not like the idea, but if she is content the way things are, odds are that she will be content without you there. Sad.


I agree with this - 

Let's summarize....

You've talked to her about wanting more sex , she refuses to give you anything to go on, she *refuses *counseling , can't even give you a sentence on what YOU CAN do to make it exciting for her (in order words you are considering her feelings & need some help), Sex is rare and when it does happen, she just lays there , no passion or desire from her. (that would get old real fast)

You've manned up- as to not look like a doormat, not badgered her for sex but left her to her own hobbies and took a step back . You've taken steps to improve your physcial appearance-with other women noticing you. You've tried dating her to revive her free spirit -like you enjoyed in your youth - but even that holds no interest for her. 

And you are met with "I don't know's" at every turn. She's told you to not waste your money on lingerie cause she won't wear it. 

She has no joy in holding hands & kissing other than a peck in the morning & night. 

Quilting is her passion & puts this before you even at night when you could be enjoying healthy marital bonding & intimacy. 

Not sure how long this has been going on for you, if for a long while, sounds like you have the patience of Job to me and she sounds like a woman who refuses to be moved, or cares anythng about your needs, you're hands have been completely tied. Her refusal for even counseling is like spitting in your face. 

The way she is described here puts me in mind of an old Grannie in a rocking chair, very content to keep sewing her squares together, not sure how you have not died of boredom. 

What else can be tried -seriously ! She is not into IT. You can't change a person, you either go with them & live out your days like this -caues she is not coming your direction or you choose to leave and find happiness with another who accually shares your love of intimacy & good old fashioned sex.


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## SimplyAmorous

txhunter54 said:


> No, I haven't read the book "Language of Love". I've read several marriage help books though. Just not that one.


Link to the book and tests here : 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-languages-how-does-affect-your-marraige.html


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## txhunter54

I took the Love language test. Pretty much supports my thoughts. 
In order:
Physical touch - 33%
Words of Affirmation - 27%
Acts of Service - 23%
Quality time - 17%
Receiving Gifts - 0%

Physical Touch being number one is no surprise.
I think the words of affirmation scored high mainly because I want it but don't get it. I mostly get criticisms.
0% on gifts means I want her affection not some small or big gift.


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## peacefully

It sounds to me like your wife is chronically withholding and rejecting you. That is a profoundly painful place to be... It also sounds like you have been working hard to keep up your side of the street, and to foster positive change. The response you have been receiving from your wife seems very passive aggressive to me- as in she is giving you a response via her attitude and behavior (or lack of), and not communicating openly, or being responsive to your requests or to the efforts you have made. This is a form of emotional abuse and a form of abandonment. She has vacated from the relationship, but stays as she is probably comfortable and might still want the safety and security that being married provides.
I hear that you are looking for suggestions to elicit change in her, however insight does not work on those who are unmotivated to change; you can only change yourself. Stop trying to fix her, or your marriage and instead focus on developing a life that has the potential for happiness, intimacy and companionship.


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## Jellybeans

Ugh this sounds so frustrating. Do you guys ever have sex? How is she emotionally? Depressed? Do you treat her lovingly?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## txhunter54

Jellybeans,
The sex is infrequent and mostly me providing the foreplay and affection. She can get aroused but only likes missionary position and within the last year has not wanted me to give her oral sex. Oral sex from her has never been an option.

I've asked her friend/old boss if she thought she was depressed. She didn't think so.

I think I treat her lovingly. But, I'm often met with stiff resistance for hugs, kisses, holding hands, etc. Like I'm an imposition to her. I'll come from behind and try to give her a hug and kiss while she is cooking dinner or doing her quilting. She typically responds with "What?" or "Can't you see I'm ______" fill in the blank with whatever she was doing.


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## Jellybeans

Oh man this sounds awful. :-( so how often is 'infrequent sex?'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## txhunter54

I'm not sure the last time we had sex. Maybe a month ago? If I don't initiate, it doesn't happen.


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## turnera

She has a mental issue. Maybe it's just repression from her childhood, with her mom dying, but whatever it is, you will NEVER have a decent marriage until she addresses it.


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## txhunter54

Turnera,
Perhaps so. I have no idea what it is though. And she clearly won't talk about it.


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## that_girl

My friend had this problem and turned out her testosterone was VERY LOW (women have some and need some for sex drive). She got on hormone oils and her sex drive came back.


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## txhunter54

Great thoughts. Trying to get her to open up is the barrier. I don't know if it is me, mental, physical or what. Getting her to discuss with her Dr and therapist is going to be difficult. But, if I tell her how important it is, maybe she will do something about it.


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## turnera

The real issue here is, are you willing to leave this marriage if she doesn't? If you are, then you have some leeway in getting something done because you will leave her if she doesn't take this seriously.

If you aren't, then you just have to find a way to accept the life you've been dealt.


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## txhunter54

Well, I once again got shot down. I suggested we turn the tv's off and go fool around. She claimed she had a headache and was going to take some advil and lie down. WTF? She spent the last two hours on her laptop and watching two different tv shows she likes. I watched them with her. She never mentioned she had a headache. Then, she tried to start an argument over some cleaning I agreed to do. She almost started cleaning and I stopped her and reminded her that I would do it. She started to argue and I told her it was not worth arguing over and that I would clean the items. That diffused the situation. She is now in the bedroom lying down after taking some advil. The items she wanted cleaned are now clean as I promised. 

This situation is not acceptable at all.


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## turnera

Why are you cleaning? 

Isn't she a SAHM?


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## txhunter54

turnera said:


> Why are you cleaning?
> 
> Isn't she a SAHM?


No, kids are out of the house. She works outside the home full time and so do I.


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## KKM017

Hmm....she may be in menopause.....
How long has she been in that way? A decade? or in a couple of months or years?

Women's menopause starts at late 30's~ 50's depending on individuals. Some women in menopause lose sex drive completely for a couple of years. According to your background description, she may be late 40's, right? She is most likely in menopause....
The symptoms are vary. Some might have mental stress too. Second possibility is she might be getting middle aged crisis. It occurs especially when kids leave the house. Third possibility is related to her background: she was raised in such a dysfunctional family.....Anyway, I think SHE needs a therapy. I suggest bringing her to OBGYN first.


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## txhunter54

She is 52. We talked this morning. Covered quite a few topics including lack of sex, intimacy, her not wanting oral sex (which she used to enjoy), not having date nights or her cancelling them, her putting up barriers, not liking lingerie, the need for counseling, going to see her dr, etc. We will talk more tonight.


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## Enchantment

txhunter54 said:


> Well, I once again got shot down. I suggested we turn the tv's off and go fool around.


Well, for me this doesn't usually get me in the mood either. 

I normally need a little bit more affection and flirting throughout the day to get me going. Most women do, since their sexual desire is not like a switch that can just instantly get turned on.

The other thing that I haven't seen mentioned here at all is whether there could be someone else in her life - either an EA/PA. It seems to be an all too common refrain.

You've had a lot of good advice. Two big questions to be answered are: How willing is she to work this out with you? And how willing are you to stay in the marriage if she doesn't?

Best wishes.


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## txhunter54

Enchantment said:


> Well, for me this doesn't usually get me in the mood either.
> 
> I normally need a little bit more affection and flirting throughout the day to get me going. Most women do, since their sexual desire is not like a switch that can just instantly get turned on.
> 
> The other thing that I haven't seen mentioned here at all is whether there could be someone else in her life - either an EA/PA. It seems to be an all too common refrain.
> 
> You've had a lot of good advice. Two big questions to be answered are: How willing is she to work this out with you? And how willing are you to stay in the marriage if she doesn't?
> 
> Best wishes.


Not sure how willing she is to work this out. She seems to be willing. For me, if it doesn't work out, then I'm not willing to stay. It's not a healthy situation as is.


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## 4sure

May be deep rooted resentments she has built up towards you over the years. She still needs to express them, get them out, and start to repair, and rebuild.


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## Enchantment

txhunter54 said:


> For me, if it doesn't work out, then I'm not willing to stay. It's not a healthy situation as is.


And have you told her this?


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## txhunter54

4sure said:


> May be deep rooted resentments she has built up towards you over the years. She still needs to express them, get them out, and start to repair, and rebuild.



I agree with you. Answers of "I don't know" are of no help. As someone else said "I don't know" is usually code for "I know but I don't want to tell you". 

She said "Maybe" to counseling. I responded with "You said Maybe before and never went through with it. So, Maybe is not a good answer". She then said, "Maybe we do need it". Will talk with her more tonight.


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## magnoliagal

txhunter54 said:


> She said "Maybe" to counseling. I responded with "You said Maybe before and never went through with it. So, Maybe is not a good answer". She then said, "Maybe we do need it". Will talk with her more tonight.


Keep at it. Sounds like you are on the right track. Don't accept those "maybe" and "I don't know" answers. Get to the bottom of what's wrong one way or another.


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## turnera

Good for you! 

And I do think you need to look into the resentment issue. It can make her completely shut down. Just as you were thinking you were doomed to a sexless marriage, she may have thought she was doomed to a marriage in which she wasn't getting what she wanted.

For example, my DH is a hoarder. We have a 3-car garage and you can barely get the lawnmower in. The automatic door broke during a hurricane two years ago, and he never fixed it. So we can't even open the big door, but have to use the little human door, go up and down the walking ledge, to get the lawnmower in and out. Because he won't take care of what he should be taking care of. The house is no better; he has stuff stuffed into every nook and cranny and I literally have anxiety issues, knowing the house is so disorganized. And yet he does nothing, despite knowing how much it hurts me. So, when he's in the 'mood,' what's the first thing I think of? 

Why should I?


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## Jellybeans

txhunter54 said:


> Not sure how willing she is to work this out. She seems to be willing. For me, if it doesn't work out, then I'm not willing to stay. It's not a healthy situation as is.


You need to tell her this. STAT. Today. Pronto. She needs to know you are serious. 

I was typing to you via my mobile before so couldn't really write a lot... 

Ok here's the thing... yes, you def are sex-starved. She needs to understand this and totally get how detrimental it is to your marriage. She can realize that by you telling her the above. You have to be serious about it. 

Has your sex life always been this way w/ her or has it reduced over time? Tell her you want to go to counselling.

I know for me, that my libido is down when I don't feel my partner is being very loving or emotionally connected to me. Keep the romance alive. Do something nice for her. Tell her she looks pretty. Ask how her day is. Show genuine interest about how she is/what she is saying. Plan a date night. Go to dinner and tell her why you married her. 

Romance!


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## Jellybeans

Great post, Mommy.


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## hellothere

Errr, ignore this post. I was posting about maybe a gain in weight (if she has) has ruined her confidence in bed....but....I didn't see there were multiple pages!

Seems a bit more than just that simple solutions!


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## txhunter54

hellothere said:


> Errr, ignore this post. I was posting about maybe a gain in weight (if she has) has ruined her confidence in bed....but....I didn't see there were multiple pages!
> 
> Seems a bit more than just that simple solutions!


She has gained weight. Talks about starting up again with weight watchers. But, hasn't done anything so far.


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## txhunter54

Jellybeans said:


> You need to tell her this. STAT. Today. Pronto. She needs to know you are serious.
> 
> I was typing to you via my mobile before so couldn't really write a lot...
> 
> Ok here's the thing... yes, you def are sex-starved. She needs to understand this and totally get how detrimental it is to your marriage. She can realize that by you telling her the above. You have to be serious about it.
> 
> Has your sex life always been this way w/ her or has it reduced over time? Tell her you want to go to counselling.
> 
> I know for me, that my libido is down when I don't feel my partner is being very loving or emotionally connected to me. Keep the romance alive. Do something nice for her. Tell her she looks pretty. Ask how her day is. Show genuine interest about how she is/what she is saying. Plan a date night. Go to dinner and tell her why you married her.
> 
> Romance!



It's been up and down as far as sex life goes. One additional factor that I discussed in a different thread is that I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes, high cholesterol and low T about 2 1/2 yrs ago. Since then, I've done the body transformation and gotten my blood glucose, cholesterol and T levels back to normal levels pretty quickly. So, I have no doubt that there were probably several years prior where the low T, elevated blood glucose and high cholesterol affected me and our relationship.


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## Halien

A guy here, but one who is familiar with some of the resentment issues and how they impact a marriage. Hey, my wife is beautifully bipolar, so resentment sounds like such a mild term. Even if its passive, it can lead to very stale emotional bonds. Thing is, even my wife's deep resentment issues have never impacted our sex life. I wouldn't even dream of asking for sex, or time together. If she can't tell what is on my mind, then she's comatose.

It is hard to change the communication styles regarding sexual intimacy, but you are already on the way to manning up. As Enchantment said, try romance through the day. You have to feel empowered, though. Like a force of nature, in a sense.

What would your wife do if you wrapped your arms around her while she was prepping a meal, and spent a moment kissing her sweet spot on the back side of her neck? If she begins to learn that these actions are not meant to lead to immediate sex, she should start to accept them. That's the key, I think. Showing her that intimacy and romance are your goal, and not sex. She may resent sex as the final goal. You can do this for days, and make a point not to follow up when the two of you go to bed. Try seeing if she'll start giving away those cues in bed that tell you that she is in the mood. Just start with changing the dynamics of the day. Trapping her in a corner for kisses. Kiss her hand before eating a meal. Watch her eat her food, and make it ovbious that you find her simple motions to be dazzling.

Sometimes, my wife will just take my hand and drag me to the bedroom.


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## turnera

Halien said:


> AWhat would your wife do if you wrapped your arms around her while she was prepping a meal, and spent a moment kissing her sweet spot on the back side of her neck? If she begins to learn that these actions are not meant to lead to immediate sex, she should start to accept them. That's the key, I think. Showing her that intimacy and romance are your goal, and not sex. She may resent sex as the final goal.


OMFG, YES!

This is SO common and SO TRUE! Many of us immediately tense up if you come up to us like that because we instantly assume you want sex and, well, hey, SOMEone has to get dinner cooked, and it usually ain't YOU!

I remember 30 years ago, after a couple years of such grabbing with intent, asking my DH if we could just touch each other some times without it leading to more, and he said sure! He lied. 

And I've been pulling away ever since.


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## txhunter54

Her attitude seems to be changing for the better. She put in a long day at work yesterday. She came home and apologized for being exhausted and filled me in on how her day went and then gave me a kiss and said she was heading to bed as she needed to get to work early again. Previously, I would ask her how her day was and how she was feeling and she would say ok and then say she was tired and that was it.

Of course, we didn't get to talk about anything else. At least the conversation was pleasant and positive.


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## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> I remember 30 years ago, after a couple years of such grabbing with intent, asking my DH if we could just touch each other some times without it leading to more, and he said sure! He lied.




Aw I hope you guys get that sorted out. 

I know for women, if we feel like a guy only wants to have sex with us each time he touches us in any way, shape, or fashion, it makes us resent him in a way. Why not just cuddle/hug sometimes?! 

Glad to hear you're having more positive reactions with the wife, TX


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## txhunter54

Jellybeans said:


> Aw I hope you guys get that sorted out.
> 
> I know for women, if we feel like a guy only wants to have sex with us each time he touches us in any way, shape, or fashion, it makes us resent him in a way. Why not just cuddle/hug sometimes?!
> 
> Glad to hear you're having more positive reactions with the wife, TX


Of course, this week, she is battling allergies. So, she feels miserably. Not in the mood for anything, which is understandable. 

Had a counseling session on Monday. Pretty much a rehash of previous discussions. Shared the positives and the negatives. But, without input from my wife, the individual counseling sessions are not very productive.


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## Jellybeans

Tell the counselor and your wife you want her to participate more, to discuss how she is feeling.

Can you come home one day this week from work/errands and bring her flowers with a cute note attached? 

Romance -----> boudoir


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## txhunter54

Jellybeans said:


> Tell the counselor and your wife you want her to participate more, to discuss how she is feeling.
> 
> Can you come home one day this week from work/errands and bring her flowers with a cute note attached?
> 
> Romance -----> boudoir


As long as the flowers don't cause another allergy attack! LOL She said she isn't going to her quilt class and still doesn't feel well (allergies)


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## txhunter54

Jellybeans said:


> Tell the counselor and your wife you want her to participate more, to discuss how she is feeling.
> 
> Can you come home one day this week from work/errands and bring her flowers with a cute note attached?
> 
> Romance -----> boudoir


I brought her a dozen roses and a card. She said thanks and asked me to put them in a vase. That's it. She is stll suffering from allergies and doesn't feel good.


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## Jellybeans

That is nice you got her flowers & card.

Wello hopefully her allergies will get better soon. I hope you have some sex soon! LOL


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## turnera

If I were your wife, I would have rather had an act of service, like fixing the door that rolls up my rug, or hanging curtains. Do you know what her love language is?


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## txhunter54

turnera said:


> If I were your wife, I would have rather had an act of service, like fixing the door that rolls up my rug, or hanging curtains. Do you know what her love language is?


No, because whatever I try doesn't seem to make a difference. 
Have been wanting to talk this weekend. But, with her battling allergies, I don't think she would be very receptive to talking about our relationship and issues.


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## that_girl

Yea, I'm not a flowers girl.

Take me for a drive and a picnic or....give me a massage and write me a love letter


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## JustSugar

It sounds like you love her very much and you have done all the right things you can.... 

I think now is the time to tell her how close you are to leaving. You need to make her talk honestly with you...she needs to open up and start talking or you will be fighting a losing a battle..

It may be that she will never want sex the same way you do, we are all, after all, wired differently. You need to know whether its sex with you she doesnt desire, or just sex in general.?? 

If its sex in general, then you have decide if a fairly sexless relationship is one you can survive in. If its sex with you she doesnt want, then why? You have to be prepared for that answer and how much it will hurt you....

She sounds quite insular, do you feel she is happy in herself? She says she wont wear sexy underwear, maybe she doesnt feel sexy enough to wear it.. 

Has sex always been infrequent, did you once have a healthy sex life.. did something change?


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## LovesHerMan

Wow, Tx, most women would love to have a man who wanted to work on their marriage like you do. She is trying to punish you for something. Is there anyone close to her that could talk to her? A sister, neighbor, co-worker? She needs to go to counseling with you and hear an impartial observer tell her what her behavior is doing to your marriage.

Make an appointment and take her there. Don't ask her if she wants to go.


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## mrs.rmiller

Are your children out of the house? If so, was she the home maker? If they are out of the house, how long have they been out? It almost sounds like she is depressed. If your children recently left, she may be experiencing “empty nest syndrome”. I am not a psychiatrist or therapist or anything of the sort, but depression, bi-polar and substance abuse addiction runs deep in my family. Does she play, laugh, talk to friends, get out of the house, etc? My Grandmother had depression issues in the 60’s – 70’s. When my mother left home, my Grandmother ended her life. Unfortunately, my mother was 15. There were signs of this before it happened. Members of my immediate family have had severe depression, bi-polar or substance abuse issues. I’ve noticed that at times, they do not want help. They do not see that the problem is with them, they think it is with everyone around them. I’ve also noticed that people with depression issues are masters of disguise. They will try to paint a beautiful picture for the public and friends, but reality is completely different.


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## txhunter54

turnera said:


> If I were your wife, I would have rather had an act of service, like fixing the door that rolls up my rug, or hanging curtains. Do you know what her love language is?


Act of service? I'm doing laundry, loading and unloading the dishwasher. We've got a maid service every two weeks. We recently remodeled the house. She goes to all the quilting classes she wants. 

I don't think I'm asking for much. I just want a loving relationship with shared intimacy and sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

A good man who loves his wife - she does not deserve you. Tx you mentioned that you tried to lower the temperature and it made no difference. Did you try not doing all of the little things for her just behave as detached as she? How about just being friendly but disinterested and remote. Do you come home every night? 

Does she know exactly where you are and what you are doing? Do you ever go out with friends just to relax? Does she know how close she is to losing you. You have nothing to lose by telling her and giving her a chance to get her azzz in gear. 

Sadly, even though you love her, the relationship may be dead. If nothing changes no matter what you do can you consider divorce? I don't know if you have read the book "too good to leave, too bad to stay". It is a workbook that helps you to decide if you would be happier getting out of a marriage. 

I hope you have a good outcome because you put so much work into your marriage. if it should not survive, you will be well equipped to have a successful relationship if it should come to that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## txhunter54

I definitely can consider divorce. It would be a hit financially. But, I'm tired of the lack of intimacy and not meeting my emotional needs. It's just not a fulfilling relationship. She seems to only do what she wants to do. Sitting at home and watching some tv shows together is not a marriage. She may think so. But, I don't.

I truly think she doesn't think much is wrong. I need to shake this up.


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## txhunter54

mrs.rmiller said:


> Are your children out of the house? If so, was she the home maker? If they are out of the house, how long have they been out?


Pretty much out of the house. Been away at college for a number of years. One still in college. One was in grad school but trying to find a job.

Since they've been in high school, she has worked out of the house at the local school district. Prior to that, she was a stay at home mom after our first child was born.

I've thought about whether she is depressed or not. Asked one of her friends to talk to her. She didn't seem to think she is depressed. Maybe just around me???


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## mrs.rmiller

There may be other reasons for not having a desire for intercourse. After spending a life time together and raising children together, I can not imagine that she does not love you. She may be very comfortable in the relationship and feel as if everything is alright. Her body may be changing as well. Women usually start going through menopause sometime in their 40s and the symptoms usually last until the mid to late 50s. Every person is different, but the symptoms of menopause can greatly affect your sex life. I was looking at a site that said the most common symptoms of menopause are hot flashes, night sweats, loss of libido and vaginal dryness. You mentioned that she had gained a little weight and was thinking about weight watchers. If she is going through that time in her life and she is self conscious, you don’t want to take it personally if she does not feel comfortable having sex. 

I’m six months pregnant. I work full time and we have a one year old at home. I honestly do not feel like having sex most of the time. I’m tired and I just do not feel attractive with my belly in the way. I honestly think the best advice a man could have given another man came from Halien. I even pulled my husband over to read Haliens comment because it is so true. I personally get a little aggravated with some of my husband’s kind gestures because it seems like he is only trying to get some. He may be rubbing my back or kissing me, but I know he is doing this for his own benefit. I would love it if my husband could show affection with out expectations. 

I think the two of you should get out for a weekend. Maybe go on vacation, drink some margarita’s by a pool and just relax. Or rent a boat and take her fishing. Do it without the thinking about sex. If she feels special, she may come to you.

There are other ways to find pleasure without going outside of the marriage. Sex toys are not just for women. There are different types of toys that can satisfy your physical needs temporarily. They can also be fun for the two of you to use together. We used to have a game called “52 weeks of naughty nights”. It’s a scratch card game for each night. Look it up, it was fun.


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## txhunter54

mrs.rmiller,

It's hard not to take it personally if she doesn't feel comfortable having sex. 

I've tried to get her away for a weekend. She isn't very receptive.


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## katc

Geez, I read your post txhunter54 and thought you might be my husband!

Ditto for me - no interest in sex, not interested in doing anything with him.

Sadly for me - it's been a build up of "Crap" that has gone unfixed, and now I resent him.

He asked me to massage his shoulder the other nite and I cringed, and said no. I could not do it. If we sit on the couch to watch tv and his foot touches me - I have to pull away.

I do not want him to touch me. We haven't had sex in over a year. I know for certain that I will never have sex with him again.

So very sad.


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## turnera

tx, I don't mean to turn into her servant. I mean, KNOW what matters to her. That seems to be your biggest issue anyway. And if a dozen roses seems stupid to her, buying them may not only NOT affect her, it may even NEGATIVELY affect her. That's why it's so important to work on communication over everything. If you want anything to improve, you HAVE to find a way to fix that. Read, ask, ask your counselor for ideas...figure out who she is.


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## txhunter54

I've asked her to fill out the Love Language assessment. Hopefully, that will help get communication going.


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## txhunter54

Asked her last night if she had filled out the Love Language assessment. Turns out she hasn't checked her personal email in a number of days. The allergies have gotten the best of her for almost a week now. At least now, she knows it is out there.


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## southerngirl78

So sorry, i have read some of your post seems as though you really love you wife and have tried to work things out with her. My husband and i rarely have intimicy because i do as your wife does but for different reasons...


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## MrK

katc said:


> Geez, I read your post txhunter54 and thought you might be my husband!
> 
> Ditto for me - no interest in sex, not interested in doing anything with him.
> 
> Sadly for me - it's been a build up of "Crap" that has gone unfixed, and now I resent him.
> 
> He asked me to massage his shoulder the other nite and I cringed, and said no. I could not do it. If we sit on the couch to watch tv and his foot touches me - I have to pull away.
> 
> I do not want him to touch me. We haven't had sex in over a year. I know for certain that I will never have sex with him again.
> 
> So very sad.



Thanks for being honest Kat.

I find it odd that people are treating this situation as though it is unusual. Don't ALL women fall out of love with their husbands? Don't they ALL not want to talk about it? Don't ALL men just have to suck it up and get on with their lives?

OK. I exaggerate a little, but come on. This is a VERY common thing. And I hate to say it, but when it happens, it won't stop. Women don't come back from this kind of thing. I am lucky in that my wife hates to talk to me more than she hates giving me oral sex (vaginal is all but out. Evidently women need to at least KIND OF like their partner in order to get into the mood). I have a higher libido than most men, but I don't touch my wife any more. When I do, I feel kind of like a rapist. Knowing I am getting sex from her only because she wants me to shut up and go away? Ewwww!.

Bad news. You only have two options:
1 - Suck it up and get over it.
2 - Divorce.

Please spare him the "don't give up, you've got to try, it's never over". If anyone REALLY wants to help him, tell him the story of your relationship with your spouse that was this bad and you actually fixed it. No takers? Hmmm.... Why am I not surprised?

Sorry to be so blatantly negative, but you need to prepare for a long, miserable ride. It's the more likely outcome. BY FAR!


----------



## Enchantment

MrK said:


> Don't ALL women fall out of love with their husbands? Don't they ALL not want to talk about it? Don't ALL men just have to suck it up and get on with their lives?


No, I haven't fallen out of love with my husband. It's only been 23 years, though. 

Marriage is like a garden that both people have to tend. If you don't tend the garden, it becomes overridden with weeds, provides little bounty, and eventually goes in to decay and ruin.

If couples aren't both willing to tend to their marital "garden", then you fall in to what you have described.

"_Almost no one is foolish enough to imagine that he automatically deserves great success in any field of activity; yet almost everyone believes that he automatically deserves success in marriage_." ~Sydney J. Harris

And there is always that third option - if both people are truly willing to work at it, then all may not be lost and the garden may be re-sown and be more lush than ever.


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## turnera

No, they don't, MrK. But many DO become disenchanted when the man marries the woman and just expects her to replace his mother. Women usually fill men's #1 Emotional Need - sex - but men often don't even have a CLUE what their woman's top need is, let alone try to meet it. Sometimes, that's all it takes. 

The best way to save a marriage is to use logic - (1) learn how you Love Bust your partner (make them unhappy), and stop doing it and (2) learn your partner's top Emotional Needs, and become the ONLY person meeting those needs. As long as you both are focused on these two things, your marriage will prosper and grow. 

Oh, and you can throw in a vital piece many people forget about once kids show up - 10 to 15 hours a week together in non-kid/household/work-related activity. You have to DATE your partner; after all, that's why you fell in love in the first place - you were dating and focusing your attention on each other. If you don't continue this part, you will likely fall out of love.


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## gingxuu

This may not be a solvable problem.


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## LillySue

It sounds like she may have underlying issues. The father who drank...god only knows what she saw in her big developmental years. Could she have been abused sexually in her childhood. There may be a reason she doesn't want to go to counseling. She may not want to face her memories.

Or possibly she is resentful about something in the marriage. Has she always been this way or maybe menopause, or something with hormones? I am all over the board here but any number of things could make her be this way.


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## txhunter54

LillySue said:


> It sounds like she may have underlying issues. The father who drank...god only knows what she saw in her big developmental years. Could she have been abused sexually in her childhood. There may be a reason she doesn't want to go to counseling. She may not want to face her memories.
> 
> Or possibly she is resentful about something in the marriage. Has she always been this way or maybe menopause, or something with hormones? I am all over the board here but any number of things could make her be this way.


LillySue,

Your questions are my questions too. I don't know. She is close to menopause. But not there yet. 

We can talk about most anything except sex and intimacy. Her answers of "I don't know" or "Haven't thought about it" or some other non-answer result. I've called her on them and told her that those types of answers provide no help whatsoever to understand where she is coming from. 

She is infamous for using avoidance/stalling tactics to avoid sexual intimacy. If there is a tactic she hasn't used, I don't know what it is.

We are best friends outside of sex. We are like strangers when it comes to sex. And she doesn't want to explore either.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

turnera said:


> No, they don't, MrK. But many DO become disenchanted when the man marries the woman and just expects her to replace his mother. Women usually fill men's #1 Emotional Need - sex - but men often don't even have a CLUE what their woman's top need is, let alone try to meet it. Sometimes, that's all it takes.
> 
> The best way to save a marriage is to use logic - (1) learn how you Love Bust your partner (make them unhappy), and stop doing it and (2) learn your partner's top Emotional Needs, and become the ONLY person meeting those needs. As long as you both are focused on these two things, your marriage will prosper and grow.
> 
> Oh, and you can throw in a vital piece many people forget about once kids show up - 10 to 15 hours a week together in non-kid/household/work-related activity. You have to DATE your partner; after all, that's why you fell in love in the first place - you were dating and focusing your attention on each other. If you don't continue this part, you will likely fall out of love.


Exactly! Nothing made me resent my husband more than when he was all sweet and awesome dating and pulled the old bait and switch after a ring was on his finger.
Men claim women do this regarding sex. I am pretty sure a huge connection can be found between a man no longer listening to his wife and tuning her out and a wife not being interested in sex with him. I have seen low drive women out in public and they sure have a drive and are far from dead. Being ignored and marginalized however killed their drive for their husband.


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## Jellybeans

Excellent post, Thread.

Sometimes men take women for granted in the emotions department. Women NEED those emotions to want to have sex. And if the emotional connection is there, the sex is out of this world-amazing! So men should be in tune with her emotionally, telling her they appreciate her, she looks nice, do little things, it goes a long way... all the way over into the bedroo (or car, sofa, kitchen countertop, whatever).


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## Therealbrighteyes

Jellybeans said:


> Excellent post, Thread.
> 
> Sometimes men take women for granted in the emotions department. Women NEED those emotions to want to have sex. And if the emotional connection is there, the sex is out of this world-amazing! So men should be in tune with her emotionally, telling her they appreciate her, she looks nice, do little things, it goes a long way... all the way over into the bedroo (or car, sofa, kitchen countertop, whatever).


I get suspicious when I read "my wife never wants sex" or something along those lines because it is always followed with "and I do everything".
My husband would tell you the same thing. He is correct, he did do everything. Forget my birthdays, anniversaries, fall asleep when I was talking to him, put his friends as a higher priority, roll his eyes when I wanted to talk about "us". Yup, he did everything all right.
Was my sex drive lacking? Not a chance. After being treated like that, he managed to take a hd nympo and turn her in to a nun. A nun mind you who thought about screwing his friends.


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## Jellybeans

It happened to me too in my marriage, Brighteyes. And worse, when I would bring it up, he didn't care. He'd say "But I don't 
want to do those things for you because that's not me." But when he was courting me he was Mr. Romantic. Like, something out of a movie. But he expected me to fck on command. Like a machine. Um, okaaay. Yeah that is definitely going to turn me on. :;sarcasm:: Whatevs!!!


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## LovesHerMan

Unless Tx is lying, he has tried to get her to go to marriage counseling, to read the 5 Love Languages book, to talk about why she does not want to be intimate, but nothing has worked. He is not ignoring her emotional needs. She refuses to do her part to keep the marriage alive.


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## Jellybeans

Ah, well that changes things quite a bit. I also did all of those things in my marriage and no dice. What it comes down to is BOTH have to be willing to put forth the same amount of effort. One party alone cannot carry a marriage.


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## txhunter54

lovesherman said:


> Unless Tx is lying, he has tried to get her to go to marriage counseling, to read the 5 Love Languages book, to talk about why she does not want to be intimate, but nothing has worked. He is not ignoring her emotional needs. She refuses to do her part to keep the marriage alive.


I'm not lying!  

Last week, when we went together to shop for some clothes for me (slacks don't fit anymore due to lost weight), I suggested we look for something for her. She wasn't in the mood. I then asked about lingerie, she said she needed to lose 50 lbs first. So, she admitted she is overweight. But, she really hasn't done anything to fix that.


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## turnera

lovesherman said:


> Unless Tx is lying, he has tried to get her to go to marriage counseling, to read the 5 Love Languages book, to talk about why she does not want to be intimate, but nothing has worked. He is not ignoring her emotional needs. She refuses to do her part to keep the marriage alive.


Where did we agree that he has met her emotional needs? Does he even KNOW what her emotional needs ARE? Then how can he be meeting them?


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## turnera

She sounds more to me that she has checked out for some reason. And the comment about weight, if she's anything like me, being overweight has a lot of ancillary fallout - not wanting to have sex because you feel ugly, not wanting to go out and socialize because you feel ugly...

As usual, the only true solution here is to be willing to walk away if she won't turn around.


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## txhunter54

turnera said:


> Where did we agree that he has met her emotional needs? Does he even KNOW what her emotional needs ARE? Then how can he be meeting them?


I've asked her again to fill out a needs assessment from 5lovelanguages.com website so we can discuss tonight. I also have the emotional needs assessment questionnaire from marriagebuilders.com that I'd like for us to fill out too.


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## eclectic

From what I've read, it sounds like you have done a lot to try and entice her to be more intimate. Is there anything you're NOT telling us, like major upsets in her life, her health, etc?

There may be underlying reasons for her behavior. It could be depression or hormonal, negative self image.

I know my husband has the same complaint about me; that I don't want sex very often, and I rarely initiate it. For me, the problem lies with him and how his behavior is affecting me. I posted earlier about him being a clingy husband. First, he has done things in the past that has made me feel very insecure in life. Second, he relies on me for everything, decision making, etc. Third, he lacks motivation. These issues combined are turning me off emotionally. I do find him physically attractive, but women are wired differently and need more of a mental attraction in order to feel intimate.

Anyway, I assume you've told her how you feel. Give her an ultimatim--Get help or we're going into therapy. I do understand how you feel and hopefully she'll recognize there is a serious problem. Good luck.


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## turnera

eclectic said:


> For me, the problem lies with him and how his behavior is affecting me.


Bingo.

Barring a personal psychological issue (mental, or past history, etc.), women don't shut down unless they are unhappy with their man. They usually HAVE to have a good, safe, healthy, robust relationship with him, to WANT to have SF with him. Men usually need the SF to get the relationship. So if you want more, find out what she is unhappy about with YOU.


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## okeydokie

turnera said:


> Bingo.
> 
> Barring a personal psychological issue (mental, or past history, etc.), women don't shut down unless they are unhappy with their man. They usually HAVE to have a good, safe, healthy, robust relationship with him, to WANT to have SF with him. Men usually need the SF to get the relationship. So if you want more, find out what she is unhappy about with YOU.


a womans happiness is a constantly moving traget . it is very difficult to pin down what makes a woman happy at any given point in time. not a knock, just a reality. sure any partner can ruin the desire for the other, but its not fair to say that its always the mans place to make the woman happy in expectation of sex. actually, in my marriage my wife ruins my desire to initiate because of other factors, not a lack of desire for her physically.

i would love to be in a position where others had to make me happy to get a positive response, that would make life sweet.


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## Jellybeans

How are you connecting emotionally with your wife???


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## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> As usual, the only true solution here is to be willing to walk away if she won't turn around.


:iagree:


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## txhunter54

Jellybeans said:


> How are you connecting emotionally with your wife???


That is difficult to say since I still don't know what her top emotional needs truly are. I've tried a lot of different things. But, with little result.

Yesterday morning, she made a comment that she liked that we worked together on chores around the house. So, working together on chores may be one of her top emotional needs. Me giving her gifts apparently isn't a priority as while she appreciates the thought, there isn't much of an emotional response. So, flowers and cards, etc. get no mileage with her.


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## Jellybeans

Have you ASKED her what her top emotional needs are? And what you can do for her? And how you can improve things on your end as the husband in the marriage???


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## txhunter54

Jellybeans said:


> Have you ASKED her what her top emotional needs are? And what you can do for her? And how you can improve things on your end as the husband in the marriage???


I have asked with little response. So, I'm trying to get her to fill out these needs assessments as a tool to get communication going. But, so far, I haven't been successful on that either.


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## txhunter54

What does SF stand for? People using acronyms assuming others know what they mean is a pet peeve of mine.


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## Jellybeans

I don't know (IDK) what SF means.

Hmm...well your wif ementioned chores so definitely participate in that with her. I think you just really need to sit her down and tell her you need to get laid, man! LOL. Tell her it's having a VERY adverse effect on you (not having sex) and you are getting tired of not having this need filled. Now, by the same token, to soften that, tell her "And I also want to know what I can do for YOU to make things better on my end..." But please... let's have sex. I need it, woman! 

LOL

Ultimately, if she won't make an efffort to meet you halfway or try to improve in this area for you, then you will have to decide whether it is a dealbreaker or not. Life is so much easier when your partner is willing to participate in helping. My heart goes out to you.


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## KatGirl

@ TXHunter54

SF- Sexual Fulfillment


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## txhunter54

Jellybeans said:


> I don't know (IDK) what SF means.
> 
> Hmm...well your wif ementioned chores so definitely participate in that with her. I think you just really need to sit her down and tell her you need to get laid, man! LOL. Tell her it's having a VERY adverse effect on you (not having sex) and you are getting tired of not having this need filled. Now, by the same token, to soften that, tell her "And I also want to know what I can do for YOU to make things better on my end..." But please... let's have sex. I need it, woman!
> 
> LOL
> 
> Ultimately, if she won't make an efffort to meet you halfway or try to improve in this area for you, then you will have to decide whether it is a dealbreaker or not. Life is so much easier when your partner is willing to participate in helping. My heart goes out to you.


Glad I'm not the only one that doesn't know the various acronyms used in here. We talk about better communication with our spouses and then mess up communications in here by using acronyms not everyone understands... lol

I agree, I need to clearly get my message across and also get from her what her needs are. Guessing hasn't worked well at all. I won't stand for vague answers either. The "I don't know" answers are a non-answer. Maybe is another answer I absolutely hate. It is typically code for "NO". 

Am I wrong to try to use these assessment questionnaires to get communication going?


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## txhunter54

KatGirl said:


> @ TXHunter54
> 
> SF- Sexual Fulfillment


Thanks!


----------



## Jellybeans

txhunter54 said:


> Am I wrong to try to use these assessment questionnaires to get communication going?


It's not wrong to use them but I feel a conversation with her about how you are feeling would be more useful, put all your cards on the table.


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## KatGirl

TXHUnter -

I've been reading your posts for awhile now and just so you know, you have helped at one person - me.

I was basically just like your wife (younger I think) but I saw myself in alot of the posts where you described her actions and it was just like seeing a mirror.

I saw your posts and possibly how my own husband feels and it tore me up. I never wanted him to feel like that although our issues are so similar. So I decided to make it work I would change and meet him halfway. I have to admit it's hard for me because I'm not used to being the one to get things started and iniate sex but I find myself doing it. Am I 100% comfortable? Not really but he means the world to me and I have to put that before anything else. It's a slow process but worthwhile.


----------



## txhunter54

Jellybeans said:


> It's not wrong to use them but I feel a conversation with her about how you are feeling would be more useful, put all your cards on the table.


Maybe I'll use the results as an ice breaker then go into a direct discussion. If she starts giving the "I don't know" answers, what would be a good constructive response from me?


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## Jellybeans

Tell her "IDK" isn't helping. That you need concrete answers. That you are growing exhausted of trying to figure out what that means.

She deserves to give you an answer. That sounds incredibly frustrating.


----------



## LovesHerMan

Am I wrong to try to use these assessment questionnaires to get communication going?

The trouble with this is she can refuse to fill out the questionnaire, or fill it out carelessly. It sounds like very direct communication with her would be better.

Tell her how you feel about the relationship, and your concern about her checking out of it. Use "I" statements such as I feel we are not connected any more. Do not say anything that will make her feel defensive.


----------



## Jellybeans

Example: "I feel rejected when you don't want to have sex with me. It makes me feel less desireable and like our marriage isn't doing well when this happens.'

"I feel we aren't getting any solutions to our problems when I ask you a question and the response is 'I don't know." I feel we can resolve things better if you gave me a clear answer."

"I really want to have sex with you."


----------



## txhunter54

KatGirl said:


> TXHUnter -
> 
> I've been reading your posts for awhile now and just so you know, you have helped at one person - me.
> 
> I was basically just like your wife (younger I think) but I saw myself in alot of the posts where you described her actions and it was just like seeing a mirror.
> 
> I saw your posts and possibly how my own husband feels and it tore me up. I never wanted him to feel like that although our issues are so similar. So I decided to make it work I would change and meet him halfway. I have to admit it's hard for me because I'm not used to being the one to get things started and iniate sex but I find myself doing it. Am I 100% comfortable? Not really but he means the world to me and I have to put that before anything else. It's a slow process but worthwhile.



Hi Katgirl,

Glad my discussion threads have helped you. I know there is hope for me too! Whichever way it ends up.


----------



## turnera

okeydokie said:


> its not fair to say that its always the mans place to make the woman happy in expectation of sex.


It is if he's the one who wants it.


----------



## turnera

txhunter54 said:


> Yesterday morning, she made a comment that she liked that we worked together on chores around the house. So, working together on chores may be one of her top emotional needs. Me giving her gifts apparently isn't a priority as while she appreciates the thought, there isn't much of an emotional response. So, flowers and cards, etc. get no mileage with her.


That is SO me! I HATE that DH wastes money on flowers and jewelry and perfume, when all I really want is my day-to-day life to be less stressful and to get to not have to do all the work myself. THAT gets me 'happy' - when he helps with stuff. In fact, when I see him cleaning the kitchen at night, I know he's planning some SF time, lol. I think he figures if he does it, I can't use it as an excuse to say no.


----------



## turnera

txhunter54 said:


> Glad I'm not the only one that doesn't know the various acronyms used in here.


Actually, if you've read His Needs Her Needs and/or looked at those questionnaires, you'd see it in there. That's what it's from - Harley's list of top Emotional Needs.


----------



## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> It is if he's the one who wants it.


----------



## okeydokie

turnera said:


> It is if he's the one who wants it.


he wants it because he loves her and desires her, isnt that at least enough to get a nibble. sounds to me like she is making him work double time for nothing already.


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## turnera

*shrug* We're not there. He wants it because he's a man and a man gets his 'closeness' by doing the deed, while a woman needs the closeness TO do the deed.


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## Jellybeans

^^ Exactly!!

Okey- that is all fine and good but he wants her to just go on command, that is not going to endear her to him. Some men just want to act nice when they want sex. And that isn't the answer.


----------



## okeydokie

he has gone over and above what should be necessary to get his wife to buy in to the intimacy issue. she aint budging. there are alot of women on here that would be thrilled to have a husband giving half of txhunter's effort. 

she has issues and he may never understand or solve them because she isnt interested in helping him. how many time does one have to ask a person what they can do to help things. he will be the one who suffers


----------



## Jellybeans

okeydokie said:


> he has gone over and above what should be necessary to get his wife to buy in to the intimacy issue. she aint budging.
> 
> how many time does one have to ask a person what they can do to help things. he will be the one who suffers


As already suggested--if she won't stop the neglectful behavior, he can decide to terminate the relationship and/or separate. 

He needs to decide what is a dealbreaker for him and what he's willing to put up with.


----------



## turnera

You're right, okey, it should work that way. But dozens and dozens of books in the self-help section suggest that there is a PATTERN that happens when a woman shuts down. So it's not just a matter of this particular woman being selfish. She's reacting as women react. To something. If he wants things to change, it's going to have to be him - for NOW - doing the heavy lifting to pull her out of the pattern. Once she is reengaged, then he can and SHOULD expect more from her.


----------



## Jellybeans

Turn, I"m interested in learning what the pattern is... Can you post links?


----------



## turnera

Here are a few I found:
Divorce Busting® - Walk-Away Wife Syndrome - Wife Ending Marriage
A Discussion on Some Reasons Women Shut Down Sexually - Blogs - Women's Health Support Forums
I love this one:
The Walkaway Wife Syndrome | Psychology Today
Walkaway Wife Syndrome | 'Walkaway Wives' Hit the Point of No Return - Los Angeles Times
Mid-life Crisis | A Marriage Therapist's Blog
Connecting With Your Wife


----------



## turnera

Basically, she tries to get him to relate on her level, not realizing he's a man and doesn't work that way. So she tries different methods to get the stuff she needs (listening, etc.), and gets rebuffed. Cos HE doesn't think like HER and doesn't WANT to. Most people just go into a marriage thinking they'll stay best friends and never have to work on it. So she feels bad and says so. So he responds negatively and she learned to stop saying so. So she starts to shut down and not express; and the resentment starts. In her head. She usually continues to meet his needs, so he's happy as a clam. While she stews. And stews. And stews. Until she stops loving him - 100% shut down and probably irretrievable. SHE has been unhappy for years, HE didn't want to bother with all that touchy-feely stuff so he ignored her, and then she finally says screw you, I deserve better, and leaves.


----------



## Mrs. Spice

txhunter54 said:


> I took the Love language test. Pretty much supports my thoughts.
> In order:
> Physical touch - 33%
> Words of Affirmation - 27%
> Acts of Service - 23%
> Quality time - 17%
> Receiving Gifts - 0%
> 
> Physical Touch being number one is no surprise.
> I think the words of affirmation scored high mainly because I want it but don't get it. I mostly get criticisms.
> 0% on gifts means I want her affection not some small or big gift.


I think you're missing the point. You're not speaking HER love language. Maybe I missed something, but all I got from your posts was a "me me me" attitude. Perhaps if you studied "her" you might get a better result. Good luck.


----------



## turnera

Mrs. Spice said:


> I think you're missing the point. You're not speaking HER love language. Maybe I missed something, but all I got from your posts was a "me me me" attitude. Perhaps if you studied "her" you might get a better result. Good luck.


 Exactly.


----------



## okeydokie

so basically we can all agree that men need intimacy to feel loved
women need to feel love to have intimacy

what is it women really need? take my case for instance:
-i work a difficult and stressful job and am sole provider for all financial needs, providing for a comfortable life. this allows my wife (at her choice) to be a SAHM, a hard job but one without any job performance stresses, ie she can choose to do what she wants to when she wants to and often chooses not to do basic things because she gets sidetracked alot. i do not judge her performance at running the house, ever.........this is not enough.
-i do alot of the stuff around the house in addition to my job, run kids to numerous events evry week and weekend and take zero time to enjoy any of my favorite hobbies that have long since vanished, in other words i am a responsible person and understand i am half of this marriage and take it very seriously......this is not enough.
-I have in the past, mostly because of what i have learned on TAM, tried to listen to my wife, hugged my wife, held my wife's hand, kissed her neck, rubbed her back and even FORCED her to sit down and relax because she was wearing herself down to a frazzle......this is not enough.
-i have tolerated her hoarding (but it will eventually lead to our downfall), i have tolerated untreated health issues because she is so incredibly stubborn and puts herself and her health last, i have tried to work with her on all of these things in a patient way......this is not enough
-i have asked her in serious conversations so many times to open up, tell me whats on her mind, let me have it so i can get better at meeting her needs, and she wont......this is not enough
-i have manned up (never was a wuss though, she told me a long time ago that was one of the qualities she liked in me).......this is not enough

yeah, i know i should keep trying until i find out what my princess needs to feel all good about resuming an important activity that she used to snare me in the beginning. it would be real nice for her to help with the process, but it would also be nice to be in a position of power where i didnt have to work at something until i got what i wanted, kinda like being on strike....but i cant really do that.

to txhunter, sorry for the hijack, but i thought our issues were too similar to ignore


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## txhunter54

okeydokie said:


> so basically we can all agree that men need intimacy to feel loved
> women need to feel love to have intimacy
> 
> what is it women really need? take my case for instance:
> -i work a difficult and stressful job and am sole provider for all financial needs, providing for a comfortable life. this allows my wife (at her choice) to be a SAHM, a hard job but one without any job performance stresses, ie she can choose to do what she wants to when she wants to and often chooses not to do basic things because she gets sidetracked alot. i do not judge her performance at running the house, ever.........this is not enough.
> -i do alot of the stuff around the house in addition to my job, run kids to numerous events evry week and weekend and take zero time to enjoy any of my favorite hobbies that have long since vanished, in other words i am a responsible person and understand i am half of this marriage and take it very seriously......this is not enough.
> -I have in the past, mostly because of what i have learned on TAM, tried to listen to my wife, hugged my wife, held my wife's hand, kissed her neck, rubbed her back and even FORCED her to sit down and relax because she was wearing herself down to a frazzle......this is not enough.
> -i have tolerated her hoarding (but it will eventually lead to our downfall), i have tolerated untreated health issues because she is so incredibly stubborn and puts herself and her health last, i have tried to work with her on all of these things in a patient way......this is not enough
> -i have asked her in serious conversations so many times to open up, tell me whats on her mind, let me have it so i can get better at meeting her needs, and she wont......this is not enough
> -i have manned up (never was a wuss though, she told me a long time ago that was one of the qualities she liked in me).......this is not enough
> 
> yeah, i know i should keep trying until i find out what my princess needs to feel all good about resuming an important activity that she used to snare me in the beginning. it would be real nice for her to help with the process, but it would also be nice to be in a position of power where i didnt have to work at something until i got what i wanted, kinda like being on strike....but i cant really do that.
> 
> to txhunter, sorry for the hijack, but i thought our issues were too similar to ignore


No problem. 

The difficulty we face is that our wives don't understand their love language either. They don't know how to express it. For example, my wife said last night "If you don't know what I like and want after being together 28 yrs...." I'm not a mind reader and need feedback. She had difficulty filling out the 5LoveLanguages need assessment. Thought it was kinda stupid. I tried to explain the objective of identifying the highest love language that was important to her. That's when she made the comment above. So, we have more work to do.


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## okeydokie

about 6 months ago, i realized (again thanks to TAM) that i could do a better job of complimenting my wife on what she does do and shift focus away from some of the bad things she does i mentioned above. i even brought the kids into it, making sure they show her appreciation for all the work we both do for them (high focus, dont want spoiled brats). it actually seemed to lift her spirits and i will say it temporarily put us on the right road to a better marriage. i will tell you i also noticed during this time that it wasnt reciprocated by her to me, i began to felt taken for granted but i am strong enough to not let it bother me much. it unfortunately did not last, i kept up the positive reinforcement but like most everything else i began to see that it lost effect over time. i still do it, but she doesnt seem to covet it anymore.


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## txhunter54

Mrs. Spice said:


> I think you're missing the point. You're not speaking HER love language. Maybe I missed something, but all I got from your posts was a "me me me" attitude. Perhaps if you studied "her" you might get a better result. Good luck.


I already know that I need to find out her love language. Sorry to burst your bubble. All I was stating was the results of my needs assessment. If you really read my posts, you would understand that I'm trying to figure out what's going on with her and what needs she has that I'm not meeting. I know what's going on with me.


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## turnera

okeydokie said:


> i work a difficult and stressful job and am sole provider for all financial needs, providing for a comfortable life. this allows my wife (at her choice) to be a SAHM, a hard job but one without any job performance stresses, ie she can choose to do what she wants to when she wants to and often chooses not to do basic things because she gets sidetracked alot. i do not judge her performance at running the house, ever.........this is not enough.


Women lose respect for men who do not hold them accountable. You can do this in a loving, in-it-together way, rather than a I-make-the-money-so-I-expect-a-clean-house way.



> i do alot of the stuff around the house in addition to my job, run kids to numerous events evry week and weekend and take zero time to enjoy any of my favorite hobbies that have long since vanished, in other words i am a responsible person and understand i am half of this marriage and take it very seriously......this is not enough.


Women lose respect for men who give up their lives and their hobbies and who come home and do housework if the woman's a SAHM. She has to have pride in her 'job' and if you come home and do half of it, you tell her she's not doing a good job. Just ask her to do more, so you DO have time to do your stuff (get the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.).



> I have in the past, mostly because of what i have learned on TAM, tried to listen to my wife, hugged my wife, held my wife's hand, kissed her neck, rubbed her back and even FORCED her to sit down and relax because she was wearing herself down to a frazzle......this is not enough.


WHY are either of you wearing yourself down to a frazzle? If there's too much going on to have a decent life...stop doing so much. Kids don't HAVE to belong to 3 activities; one is plenty. You don't HAVE to go to the church socials or the neighborhood parties. Select what's really important; hire someone to do what no one wants to do; pick ways to do things more practically so no one has to get frazzled.



> i have tolerated her hoarding (but it will eventually lead to our downfall), i have tolerated untreated health issues because she is so incredibly stubborn and puts herself and her health last, i have tried to work with her on all of these things in a patient way......this is not enough


You are the husband; it's your job to LEAD your family. If she hoards, tell her it will have to stop or you will call someone in. If she won't listen and do things on her own, let her know that you WILL step in and change things, even if it's for her health.



> i have asked her in serious conversations *so many times* to open up, tell me whats on her mind, let me have it so i can get better at meeting her needs, and she wont......this is not enough


Which means you're not doing it the right way - for HER. Definition of insanity...Try something different. Get the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires and sit down with her and tell her you two WILL be filling them out. So you can learn what is on her mind.



> i have manned up (never was a wuss though, she told me a long time ago that was one of the qualities she liked in me).......this is not enough


Not sure what you mean - she likes that you're a wuss?



> yeah, i know i should keep trying until i find out what my princess needs to feel all good about resuming an important activity that she used to snare me in the beginning. it would be real nice for her to help with the process, but it would also be nice to be in a position of power where i didnt have to work at something until i got what i wanted, kinda like being on strike....but i cant really do that.


What you should do is tell her the truth - that you are unhappy, that you EXPECT her to want to have SF with you as that IS part of marriage and that, if she is not going to, she either needs to find out WHY and FIX it, or you two need to start preparing for separate lives. Unfortunately, that is often the ONLY way to wake someone up to what they need to do. You don't sound very 'manned up' to me.


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## turnera

okeydokie said:


> about 6 months ago, i realized (again thanks to TAM) that i could do a better job of complimenting my wife on what she does do and shift focus away from some of the bad things she does i mentioned above. i even brought the kids into it, making sure they show her appreciation for all the work we both do for them (high focus, dont want spoiled brats). it actually seemed to lift her spirits and i will say it temporarily put us on the right road to a better marriage. i will tell you i also noticed during this time that it wasnt reciprocated by her to me, i began to felt taken for granted but i am strong enough to not let it bother me much. it unfortunately did not last, i kept up the positive reinforcement but like most everything else i began to see that it lost effect over time. i still do it, but she doesnt seem to covet it anymore.


Did you TELL her all this?


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## okeydokie

my gawd yes, over and over. she is a stubborn mule, too prideful to break. she wont give in no matter what.


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## okeydokie

turnera said:


> Women lose respect for men who do not hold them accountable. You can do this in a loving, in-it-together way, rather than a I-make-the-money-so-I-expect-a-clean-house way.
> 
> Women lose respect for men who give up their lives and their hobbies and who come home and do housework if the woman's a SAHM. She has to have pride in her 'job' and if you come home and do half of it, you tell her she's not doing a good job. Just ask her to do more, so you DO have time to do your stuff (get the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.).
> 
> WHY are either of you wearing yourself down to a frazzle? If there's too much going on to have a decent life...stop doing so much. Kids don't HAVE to belong to 3 activities; one is plenty. You don't HAVE to go to the church socials or the neighborhood parties. Select what's really important; hire someone to do what no one wants to do; pick ways to do things more practically so no one has to get frazzled.
> 
> You are the husband; it's your job to LEAD your family. If she hoards, tell her it will have to stop or you will call someone in. If she won't listen and do things on her own, let her know that you WILL step in and change things, even if it's for her health.
> 
> Which means you're not doing it the right way - for HER. Definition of insanity...Try something different. Get the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires and sit down with her and tell her you two WILL be filling them out. So you can learn what is on her mind.
> 
> Not sure what you mean - she likes that you're a wuss?
> 
> What you should do is tell her the truth - that you are unhappy, that you EXPECT her to want to have SF with you as that IS part of marriage and that, if she is not going to, she either needs to find out WHY and FIX it, or you two need to start preparing for separate lives. Unfortunately, that is often the ONLY way to wake someone up to what they need to do. You don't sound very 'manned up' to me.


i stop at begging and coersion, she is a smart woman and knows whats going on. the message on here is often misleading and confusing. try this, try that, man up, give her space, take charge, take her, equal rights. it takes two. why can it be so hard to admit that some partners are just not really partners, they are along for the ride with minimal effort. i post on this forum alot mostly out of frustration, i kinda know where i satnd really

there is a thread in another section about women having affairs vs men having affairs. men are just jerks when they cheat while women seem to get gentler treatment when they do.. same goes for abuse, women come on here about how bad they are treated and the men are immediately labeled as jerks (even by me). witholding sex is abuse, and it seems to always fall on the men. is it ever even possible for the woman to be at fault??

i guess i am the kind of guy alot of women that post on here would probably be happy with, that is until they have it, then they want something else. txhunter sounds like a similar guy. 

i always laugh at ED commercials. i would assume that if i had ED my wife would be pushing me very hard to seek help for it. but since i dont have it at all and it doesnt matter because we dont utilize it, i find it kind of humorous


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## LovesHerMan

Okey:

The reason that there is so much conflicting advice is because people are different. What works for one spouse is anathema to another. You have to sort through the advice and figure out what your spouse needs. For example, my husband and Simply Amorous' are classic Nice Guys, and we love them for it.

For other wives, the Nice Guy has to man up and take the lead. I remember Big Bad Wolf saying that spanking works for his wife. I would file a restraining order if my husband tried that.

If you have tried everything, then maybe it is time to discuss divorce. If you have figured out what her needs are and she still doesn't respond, then it may be time to call it quits.


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## turnera

okeydokie said:


> my gawd yes, over and over. she is a stubborn mule, too prideful to break. she wont give in no matter what.


 She will if you walk.


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## okeydokie

turnera said:


> She will if you walk.


its inevitable at this point


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## turnera

Well, I'll give you the same advice I give women married to men who won't listen to them: Tell her NOW as opposed to the day you're ready to leave. They just may surprise you.


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## Mrs. Spice

txhunter54 said:


> I already know that I need to find out her love language. Sorry to burst your bubble. All I was stating was the results of my needs assessment. If you really read my posts, you would understand that I'm trying to figure out what's going on with her and what needs she has that I'm not meeting. I know what's going on with me.


I did read all of your posts. I still read "me me me" and "If she doesn't give in soon and make this easy on me, I'm outta here." 

Maybe that's not what you meant. Forgive me if I misunderstood. 

What I see as a distinct possibility, however, is that after 28 years of marriage, and years of abuse during her childhood, she has probably stuffed her emotions so deep that even she can't find them easily. That's what happens after years of neglect from a husband--we stuff our emotions over, and over, and over--to the point that we don't even remember what it feels like to "feel." Add to that the history from her family of origin, as you described, and you get the point. 

Marriage is very hard work. If you really want to work it out, the first thing you have to do is take the possibility of divorce out of the equation, and prove that to her. Show her that you are willing to do whatever you have to in order to recapture her love and trust. I guarantee you if you re-establish love and trust, sex comes back into the equation.

And I wasn't being sarcastic. I wish you luck.


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