# If he doesn't know/wont admit WHY he does it, how can he stop?



## trustmygut (Jul 6, 2011)

Hello everyone, I am a long time lurker but I am not sure if this post belongs in this section or the general discussion section...

I will try and sum things up as best I can without writing a huge novel- My husband knows I am posting this and is also interested in reading the feedback I get.

I am 34, husband 36- together 6 years, married 3. No kids.

At the beginning of our marriage, my husband asked me to look at something in his work email, I noticed quite a few emails back and forth between himself and a female coworker. They started out innocent, but eventually hers were taking on a flirty tone. His emails were mostly responses to her questions and were benign, but I told him to stop answering her many non-work related emails because a) she was flirting with him and b) it didn't look very professional on his part to be emailing her about non-work issues all day long. I told him that if he didn't stop, and she wanted to create trouble for him she would be able to. He stopped responding, and soon after she came into work one day crying because of some car accident she supposedly had, begging him to take care of her and help her. Needless to say, it made him uncomfy and he ended up going to his superior to let him know what was going on because this girl seemed to not only like him, but be very unstable. I was upset about the situation, but I felt that once I pointed out what was going to happen if he kept communicating with her, he was very good about stopping the emails and keeping things transparent with both me and his boss.

Fast forward to about a year after we are married. Husband says quite out of the blue, "Hey, did you happen to call a friend of mine and accuse her of anything regarding being inappropriate with me?" I was taken off guard and confused. I let him know that I would never go through his phone and call a random woman accusing her of something- I would talk to him first if I had a concern and he would know from ME if I decided to call anyone. This obviously piqued my interest, and I asked him why he would ask me that. He said that there was a girl who he dated about 5 years before meeting me (about 8 dates and sex before he decided it wasn't going to work) who had apparently hired a PI to get his new phone # and email address. He said she had called him out of the blue telling him that she misses him, knows he is married (told him my name and the city where we were married) but wants him back. She also told him that I had called her and accused her of having an affair with him. He told me that she has been bothering him off and on with calls and emails, but that was about it. I didn't really care too much because he had never EVER given me a reason to think he would be inappropriate with another woman. I figured he would handle it. A few months later, he leaves his email open on the computer and I see just on the one screen, more than 10 emails from her. I shouldn't have, but I opened one and then I couldn't stop. 

In these emails, she says things like "I need to see you tonight, where are you?", and he responds that he is not in town, but that they will talk later. Or he tells her he is coming to see her that night, never writes back, and then she writes an email the next day saying, "You always say you are coming to see me and then never show up". He tells her not to cry when she writes him emails that say "I am sitting in my garage crying right now, etc etc. Eventually though, he writes her an email basically telling her to leave him alone. That he is married and happy, and he wishes her well but wants her to leave him alone. She writes back a few more times about how she misses him, how he ruined her life, and then one LONG email in which she accuses him of getting her pregnant and forcing her to have an abortion. Then she starts telling him about this supposed discussion she and I had when "I called her", and goes into detail about how she told me they were just friends, and that nothing had happened- that she was protecting him. Keep in mind, I never called this woman- never even knew she EXISTED until a few weeks before. What bothers me the most is that he did not refute anything she was saying about the pregnancy or abortion- he only reiterates that he wants her to leave him alone. The fact that he KEPT responding though, made me feel as if he enjoyed the back and forth. At any rate, then things start to get crazy- She emails him many times a day, saying things like "when I saw you last night... blah blah". I checked those nights against phone records, things we did together like movie stubs, etc- and none of the nights that she says she saw him are nights that he wasn't with me all night- no texts between them either. 

At this point he is ignoring her emails so she starts calling him every day and texting. Apparently the genius came up with a plan that if she texted him random things like, "yes, that is my favorite dress- I am glad you liked it on me ", that she could then use as an excuse (which she did later) that "Oh, I didn't mean to text YOU, that was meant for someone else". This was her MO until one day she called and I picked up. I said to her, "Well <her name>, you told my husband we spoke- now we really ARE speaking, so what do you have to say?" She of course just sat there silently and waited for me to hang up.

The texting stopped, but a few months later started again. Sometimes random, sometimes "I need to see you". He then blocked her #. Then the emails start up again (and continue today) only this time, she is sending "oops" emails like she used to do with her texts. Yes, this girl is a smart one. 

When confronted after I saw the initial emails, husband says he never touched her, only emailed and that on 3 occasions, met her on a corner in public to tell her in person that she needed to leave him alone. I asked why on EARTH he would do that, and he said that he thought if he told her in front of her face, she would let it go. To me that just makes no sense. The ONLY reason I believe him in this situation is because of her detailed story about my calling her, when that obviously is a figment of her imagination. 

After I this all went down initially, I became paranoid about it happening again. He is careless about leaving his email open and about a year after the incident with that woman, I notice lots of emails from yet another woman. This one lives in another country and apparently is someone he met years before meeting me for LITERALLY 30 minutes at an airport. These emails start off innocent, and then drift into her telling him how much she would like to be with him, and he responding that "they have a connection that he cannot deny", and that he will make plans to come see her. When I confront him, he says that he never thought it was a big deal because he would never do anything with her, is not interested in her, and was only telling her things he knew she wanted to hear. We have a loooonnnng talk- I ask him what are his reasons for doing this? He says he just doesn't know- that there IS no reason. I ask him what he is lacking in our marriage- he says absolutely nothing.. That he loves me so much and I satisfy him in every way possible- that he is incredibly happy. I tell him I am confused and he promises to see a MC with me. I should have been more aggressive about holding him to it, but we never see one.

This is already becoming a novel, so I will keep this last part short- I caught him doing it again. This time with another woman in another country- same old story. I confront him, we have it out, and he writes her an email saying "I am sorry I mislead you- I am married to a wonderful woman and I have put my marriage in jeopardy by writing this inappropriate emails to you. She wrote back, letting him know she was disappointed in his actions and that she never would have written to a married man, as her ex had done that to her.

So here we are. Every time I ask him why, he says "I don't know, there is no reason". When I ask him what he is missing, he says he is extremely happy and he has no idea why he engages in these emails, but in the moment he doesn't think it is a big deal. He says it can't be an EA because he does it knowing nothing will ever come of it, and that he doesn't mean any of the things he tells them- he just tells them what they want to hear. The emails are never sexual- just very emotional. 

We will be starting MC next week and he has blocked the crazy woman's email, but my feeling is- if he can't or wont figure out WHY- and there has to be a reason, right? How can he stop doing it? It is terribly confusing for me because if he had never asked me if I called this woman, I would NEVER have suspected a thing. He spends all of his free time with me, treats me like I am the only woman in the world, is so loving and caring. He tells me all the time how happy I make him, and how happy he is with the life we have together. It just doesn't make sense... Am I in some kind of denial for wanting to believe him? My gut says that he is telling the truth, but my brain says that can't be right.

This post was probably a big jumble- I hope I have been able to relay my situation without putting anyone to sleep! If anyone has any insight or advice, I would greatly appreciate it!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry to hear your story. Your husband is a serial cheater. Get tested for STDs. The reason ge seeks out women outside the marriage is simple: because HE WANTS TO. And also because he is not fully committed to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

He gets off on the attention it seems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Judging by what you say I would say he is having Emotional Affairs. 
These are a choice he made..

Maybe he got in way too deep and realized he had "scored" emotionally with the "bunny boiler" in particular and did try to end it . He did meet her. Perhaps you should try and find out some more about her, especially since he said she was pregnant!

The fact he makes no real attempt to hide his email makes me think he wanted you to see it. Sort of "Help. What the hell have I done."

He needs to realize that this is choice he is making and reconnect to YOU. Go to MC and thrash it out. Nasty detail by nasty detail.

For some reason he is looking outside the relationship for something.. 

Gut is often right.. 

Good luck and sorry your here.


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## trustmygut (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks, Jelly.

I guess I was hoping for something a little more constructive than "get tested for STDs" (which I have), and something maybe a little less snarky than "because HE WANTS TO". I'm already feeling pretty ashamed and low- the last thing I need are responses that try to make me feel even more stupid. Maybe you didn't mean it that way- my apologies if I've misunderstood. 

We are heading to MC next week, and we are both hoping to make progress there, but I really value the insight of the members here, so I am hoping to get some perspectives on my situation - Maybe help me to understand what I'm dealing with here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oilfieldguy (Jul 3, 2011)

I dont think he is a serial cheater, but there is something going on. Talking to woman in other countries is kinda hard to get in bed with out a passport and big charge n a credit card. It could be a form of addiction with internet and attiontion he gets from these woman. I could lead to worse things down the road. I started talking to woman on chat and email but on a secret account that was hard to find. He is leaving this out in the open like he wants to get caught. MC or a head doctor would be the way to go.


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## trustmygut (Jul 6, 2011)

Ing, thank you. "Bunny Boiler" made me laugh and I needed that! Sums her up to a tee.

I agree- I consider it EAs whether he meant what he said to these women or not. Let's say for argument's sake he didn't mean it (which makes no sense to me, but let's say that)- THEY felt that he meant it so at the very least, he was mindscrewing them. THEY thought they were in an EA with HIM.

He is definitely very careless about the emails and has even offered since the very beginning to give me all of his passwords. He also immediately closed his facebook at my request. I have refused taking his passwords because even though this happens, I still feel strange about having the passwords, and almost don't want them because I don't want to make myself crazy constantly checking. I don't know if that makes sense...

Apparently, according to him, BB was never pregnant by him, and he says (which makes some sense) that as obsessed as she is with him, does it make sense that if she got pregnant, she would abort it? He insists he never even so much as shook her hand, and that each time they met it was in public.

I agree that he is looking for SOMETHING.. I want him to figure out what it is so that we can work to get that thing he needs into our marriage. He insists there isn't anything he could ever possibly want from me- that he is insanely happy. I told him that insanely happy married people don't feel the need to get into virtual relationships with other people.

My husband is the kind of person who likes to push the envelope with things... with work, and even the way he jokes with people- just to see what buttons he can push. I almost think that he gets kicks out of seeing how crazy he can get these girls just by typing a few things to them. Maybe he chooses women who live in other countries (barring ms. BB) because it's almost "safe" to do so? because they will never be close enough to call his bluff? I think Pidge70 was onto something there about getting off on the attention...

I asked him if maybe he was missing that phase when you first meet someone- the flirting, the excitement? He said not at all, and that he finds our relationship very exciting.

This is so confusing... my gut is telling me that he is not lying, but his reasoning just makes no sense. He says he wants to do whatever he can to figure out why he does this and have a healthy marriage. So I suppose at least THAT is a good thing.

Uuuugghhh I feel a little bit of a weight lift just typing this all out... I look forward to more feedback from you guys!


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## trustmygut (Jul 6, 2011)

Agreed, Oilfieldguy. There is definitely SOMETHING, and yes- I told him that I am sure this will lead to something much worse.

Funny you and Ing both mentioned him wanting to get caught- I remember him saying something to that effect when it all initially went down- that he thought he could handle her craziness and get her to stop without being mean, but it just spun wildly out of control and that maybe he subconsciously "wanted" me to find out so it would all be out in the open.

Thank you guys for helping me not feel so nuts....


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

trustmygut said:


> Ing, thank you. "Bunny Boiler" made me laugh and I needed that! Sums her up to a tee.
> 
> I agree- I consider it EAs whether he meant what he said to these women or not. Let's say for argument's sake he didn't mean it (which makes no sense to me, but let's say that)- THEY felt that he meant it so at the very least, he was mindscrewing them. THEY thought they were in an EA with HIM.


Nope.. He WAS in multiple EA. Don't let him off that easily!



trustmygut said:


> He is definitely very careless about the emails and has even offered since the very beginning to give me all of his passwords. He also immediately closed his facebook at my request. I have refused taking his passwords because even though this happens, I still feel strange about having the passwords, and almost don't want them because I don't want to make myself crazy constantly checking. I don't know if that makes sense...


I would take the passwords. He has broken your trust and taking the passwords will show him very clearly that you have trust problems.





trustmygut said:


> Apparently, according to him, BB was never pregnant by him, and he says (which makes some sense) that as obsessed as she is with him, does it make sense that if she got pregnant, she would abort it? He insists he never even so much as shook her hand, and that each time they met it was in public.


He met her. He didn't tell you.. BAD.



trustmygut said:


> I agree that he is looking for SOMETHING.. I want him to figure out what it is so that we can work to get that thing he needs into our marriage. He insists there isn't anything he could ever possibly want from me- that he is insanely happy. I told him that insanely happy married people don't feel the need to get into virtual relationships with other people.


Quite.




trustmygut said:


> My husband is the kind of person who likes to push the envelope with things... with work, and even the way he jokes with people- just to see what buttons he can push. I almost think that he gets kicks out of seeing how crazy he can get these girls just by typing a few things to them. Maybe he chooses women who live in other countries (barring ms. BB) because it's almost "safe" to do so? because they will never be close enough to call his bluff? I think Pidge70 was onto something there about getting off on the attention...


He is a player! It easy to push some peoples emotional buttons [sigh.. me] he is getting off on the chase. 




trustmygut said:


> I asked him if maybe he was missing that phase when you first meet someone- the flirting, the excitement? He said not at all, and that he finds our relationship very exciting.
> 
> This is so confusing... my gut is telling me that he is not lying, but his reasoning just makes no sense. He says he wants to do whatever he can to figure out why he does this and have a healthy marriage. So I suppose at least THAT is a good thing.
> 
> Uuuugghhh I feel a little bit of a weight lift just typing this all out... I look forward to more feedback from you guys!


Ego.. He is pumping up his ego that he can pull. Online 

Cancel all MSN, yahoo, gmail chat accounts. Remove the software from the computer.
Check the phone records. Together

It does help to post. Keep us posted. I am probably on the softly, softly side of things. You may have to get tough fast. So read the posts you don't like too..


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

What I get out of your story is that your husband may minimize the damage or the wrong caused by an EA vs a PA.

I wish my wife had had a meaningless one night stand vs mostly EA some PA.

This for me was the main new concept a learned in person and reenforced here.

Behaviour is not OK just cause no sex occurs.

Sometimes, it is far worse.

There is a book called Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel that explores the difference between eroticism/passion that you tend to find in the short term and long term commitment/marriage that tends to have less of this.

The challenge is trying to keep both these things alive at the same time.

I highly recommend you read this book with your husband.


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## trustmygut (Jul 6, 2011)

Ing- I agree with all you are saying. I am like you, but I know I may have to get tough- I'll do whatever I need to!

Looking to heal- thank you as well. I will get that book today. I do feel he is downplaying the effects of what he is doing. 

This feedback is really helping me to trust the way I feel about everything. Sometimes after speaking with him about it, I feel as though I am overreacting and am silly for being so worried and upset. So a million thank you's again. He said he wants to come home early to talk about everything and so that he can answer any questions I have. Every time we speak about it though, he just tells me he is very happy and doesn't know why he does it- so I'm almost thinking it's not worth hashing it out until we see the MC. We both just end up exhausted with him being frustrated and me still left with no answers. 

Are there specific things I can ask him to get to the roots, or should I just wait for MC?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

You shouldn't minimize your feelings.

If the conversation is about the details of events in his life that only he really knows about and you don't fully trust what he is telling you then that would be fairly frustrating.

I would focus on what you need him to do or what you need him to say for you to feel better vs hashing out specific facts or psychoanalyzing him.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

trustmygut said:


> Thanks, Jelly.
> 
> I guess I was hoping for something a little more constructive than "get tested for STDs" (which I have), and something maybe a little less snarky than "because HE WANTS TO". I'm already feeling pretty ashamed and low- the last thing I need are responses that try to make me feel even more stupid. Maybe you didn't mean it that way- my apologies if I've misunderstood.


Eh. Sorry if I offended you but I am being very honest with you. IMO, you SHOULD get tested for STDs as it's a very real possibility he has cheated on you. Health is of utmost importance. Secondly, people do things for the same reason they do everything else in their lives:* because they want to*. The fact that he is seeking out other women is for no other reason that that is his choice and what he wants to do. It sucks, yes, absolutely, because you feel rejected, like you aren't enough for him, because he's BETRAYing your marriage in doing this. The thing is, you deserve a partner who loves you and isn't going to step out on you, and at minimum, when called out on it, not keep repeating it and apologize sincerely and STOP the behavior that is so very disrespectful and detrimental to your marriage. 

My intention was NOT to make you feel stupid. You asked for insight & advice so I was giving you mine. 

Do NOT feel bad. YOU have not done anything wrong. It was his choice and his choice solely to keep doing what he's doing. You did not *make* him do it. The problem lies within him. Sure, you aren't "perfect" but you aren't doing what he's doing.

Keep your head up and decide what you truly want. And ask yourself if you feel he can truly give that to you.

MC only works if no third parties (OW) are involved and if BOTH partners are committed and willing to restore the marriage.


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## trustmygut (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks again, jellybeans- I figured there was a chance that I was taking your comments the wrong way. No harm done. And thank you for saying what you did about it being my fault- I admit there have been many times where I ask myself, "what is it that I am not giving him?" You are right- it isn't my fault and I didn't make him do anything. I know he's doing it because he WANTS to- I guess I feel like I want to know WHY he wants to. That it will be easier to move past and fix if I know WHY. 

I am optimistic mostly because he seems to be willing to do anything he can to fix things. He even asked me to start this thread, saying that maybe someone would have some insight as to why he is doing this. I think this is a question only he can answer though. 

Here is a question- other than answering the phone that one time BB called, and one text she sent to him where I replied that it was me and to leave us alone- I have not contacted her- she is still emailing him (he has blocked her address, but she will most likely just use a new one once she realizes it). I want to write her an email and tell her to either give me proof or go away. He has already threatened filing harassment charges, but that doesn't stop her. Husband says he thinks me emailing her would only get her more riled up, but says I should email her if I think it will help or if it makes me feel better. Stupid idea? I'm thinking it's better to just ignore her and focus on us, by part of me feels like I would get some kind of satisfaction in telling her what I think of her. I just want her to stop acting crazy and leave us alone!

Ugh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

trustmygut said:


> Thanks again, jellybeans- I figured there was a chance that I was taking your comments the wrong way. No harm done. And thank you for saying what you did about it being my fault- I admit there have been many times where I ask myself, "what is it that I am not giving him?" You are right- it isn't my fault and I didn't make him do anything. I know he's doing it because he WANTS to- I guess I feel like I want to know WHY he wants to. That it will be easier to move past and fix if I know WHY.


and the thing is, his answer to that question will never be satisfactory to you. Because you can explain and excuse and you can excuse and explanation when it comes to cheating. 

Also you feeling like "What was I doing wrong that he had to do that" is a totally normal reaction to being betrayed. You feel like *YOU* did something wrong when in fact, you didn't. The decision to betray you falls squarely on his shoulders.

And until he can be honest with himself and truly see he does this cause he wants to and he actively CHOOSES to do this, you both face an uphil battle. First, he must admit there is a problem, second, commit to resolving it. If he can't do both, then you've got sand to stand on. 

I would totally block BB from any way of contacting you guys and yes, file a restraining over. Do not respond to her whatsoever. She is not working with a full deck. Don't feed the monster.


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