# Is it too much to ask?



## binary (May 16, 2012)

We have 4 kids: 9, 5, 3 and 6 months. She stays at home with them while I work full-time.

Please don't hesitate to give me a kick in the pants, but is it too much to ask my wife to clean up after herself? Or, if she cleans (which is infrequent), to put away what she's left behind? Things like clothes on the floor, scattered toiletries in the bathroom, vacuum cleaner left out for weeks at a time, piles of laundry on the sofa (for days and sometimes weeks depending on the size), dirty dishes left sitting for days, clean dishes left in the dishwasher, and lots of other stuff that really work my nerves. Essentially, our living space is one disorganized and chaotic mess, and a great deal of it is hers (as opposed to the kids).

Now, I understand that keeping the house 'clean' (or at least 'straight' as I like to call it) isn't always possible given the size of our family. For example, I know the kids are still learning to pick up after themselves consistently. And I know there are frequent surprises that can distract and even prevent things from getting done. But damn, am I wrong for thinking it shouldn't be like this 100% of the time?

We've argued about this a lot, and she seems to think that the only way I can get what I want is to hire a nanny, chef and a housekeeper. When I asked, then, what she would do, I received a curt "I don't know." I mean c'mon, she's basically telling me that she's only able to halfway tend to the kids and nothing more as a stay-at-home mom. I don't accept that.

Of course, I could (and have) pitched in where I've been able, but I don't agree with having to maintain a house after working all day *when she stays home all day*. I want to set a good example for our kids, but she's making it difficult, and the frustration is turning into a deal-breaker for me.

Someone please give me a reality check. Am I expecting too much?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Do an experiment. Take a weekend and offer to let her do nothing. You be 100% responsible for the house and the children. See how it works for you. Not trying to be sarcastic. Just trying to allow you the opportunity to see what it is like to "be home all day" and tend to crying children, diapers, dressing, breakfast, baths, grocery shopping, errands, homework, lunch, dinner, cleaning, laundry....you get the idea. Perhaps with 4 kids, she has just reached a point of burn out. Maybe she is overwhelmed and doesn't know how to fix things. Being a SAHM is not as easy as it seems. There is no mental break knowing you get to clock out and walk away from it at 5pm. I have been both a SAHM and worked outside the home fulltime. I much prefer the job way from home. 

The reality check is that if you walk away from this, she just might decide to let you have custody of the kids and not only will you be working fulltime, you will also be taking care of the 4 kids on your own, with all the responsibility you expect from your wife right now. Best of luck.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Let me ask, besides the messy house, any other issues? How is your sex life? Is her drive still there? What about yours? Do you still go out on dates? 

Most of the time, we'll nitpick and find fault with the little things, when indeed there are other major issues that lie hidden underneath. 

Who cares if she isn't a perfect homemaker? Maybe she never expected to be one or didn't grow up in the environment that encouraged it. If her only fault is an unkempt home, you shouldn't be complaining.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Let me ask, besides the messy house, any other issues? How is your sex life? Is her drive still there? What about yours? Do you still go out on dates? 

Most of the time, we'll nitpick and find fault with the little things, when indeed there are other major issues that lie hidden underneath. 

Who cares if she isn't a perfect homemaker? Maybe she never expected to be one or didn't grow up in the environment that encouraged it. If her only fault is an unkempt home, you shouldn't be complaining.


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> Do an experiment. Take a weekend and offer to let her do nothing. You be 100% responsible for the house and the children. See how it works for you. Not trying to be sarcastic. Just trying to allow you the opportunity to see what it is like to "be home all day" and tend to crying children, diapers, dressing, breakfast, baths, grocery shopping, errands, homework, lunch, dinner, cleaning, laundry....you get the idea. Perhaps with 4 kids, she has just reached a point of burn out. Maybe she is overwhelmed and doesn't know how to fix things. Being a SAHM is not as easy as it seems. There is no mental break knowing you get to clock out and walk away from it at 5pm. I have been both a SAHM and worked outside the home fulltime. I much prefer the job way from home.
> 
> The reality check is that if you walk away from this, she just might decide to let you have custody of the kids and not only will you be working fulltime, you will also be taking care of the 4 kids on your own, with all the responsibility you expect from your wife right now. Best of luck.


Great idea.

While I personally don't buy this idea that going to work is less stressful than being a SAHM, it makes sense to walk in the other person's shoes for a while. 

When I get back from work, I don't have time to criticize, I see a mess, I clean it up. Simples. I however believe tidying up is easy (I only have two kids), and I bust my behind a bit too much at work to accept that being at work is easier, it simply doesn't compute.

Maybe I need to change jobs...


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

That's a lot of small kids!

You need to help out when you get home each and every night until the kids become a little more self-sufficient


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Google "FlyLady". Great philosophy, easy to follow principles. I am guessing your wife is overwhelmed and thinks if she can't clean everything up and the house be perfect then why bother. 

FlyLady wrote a book that really speaks to the heart, for those living in chaos. Tread lightly because you don't want to upset your wife, but perhaps look at her website, explain you were looking for ways to help out and ask if she's ever heard of this site? 

It is amazing what you can do in 15 minutes! Set a timer and challenge yourself. No, I am not selling anything! Just another fan.

If she really wants a housekeeper, nanny etc then insist that she get a job since they will be doing hers.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

My wife and I both work full time and are lucky our schedules allow that we need a babysitter only one day a week. We have two boys, 2 and a half and 1 and a half. I watch both boys all day for 2 days and 1 day from 3pm till bed time. Let's just say I look forward to going to work some days. They are a hand full. While I do all the cooking and cleaning on those days its way harder than my full time job. With that said your wife should be doing more. It would bother me if my house was a mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I will confess I hate house work, never ever have been able to keep up. By the way Flylady website helps. I do have a child with special needs, and everyone thinks its because I work and tend to my little one that my house is not spot clean. which is true for now but I have always been like that. I pay for maid service once in a while, it is $60 bucks and works for me. 

So, has she always been like that? If not, please be considerate four kids is a lot I can barely deal with one. We use the weekends to to major cleaning and get the house straight for the week. I also recommend to get rid of clutter. Get the older kids to help. Enjoy them they grow up fast, before you know it you will have an empty nest and wish to come in to a home full of toys and laughter.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> *Do an experiment. Take a weekend and offer to let her do nothing. You be 100% responsible for the house and the children. See how it works for you.* Not trying to be sarcastic. Just trying to allow you the opportunity to see what it is like to "be home all day" and tend to crying children, diapers, dressing, breakfast, baths, grocery shopping, errands, homework, lunch, dinner, cleaning, laundry....you get the idea. Perhaps with 4 kids, she has just reached a point of burn out. Maybe she is overwhelmed and doesn't know how to fix things. Being a SAHM is not as easy as it seems. There is no mental break knowing you get to clock out and walk away from it at 5pm. I have been both a SAHM and worked outside the home fulltime. I much prefer the job way from home.
> 
> The reality check is that if you walk away from this, she just might decide to let you have custody of the kids and not only will you be working fulltime, you will also be taking care of the 4 kids on your own, with all the responsibility you expect from your wife right now. Best of luck.


As part of this experiment, does she have to go and work all weekend to provide income for the family?


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Thoreau said:


> As part of this experiment, does she have to go and work all weekend to provide income for the family?


It's more about "quantifying" the amount of work being done as well as the possibility of getting it done, no?

It's not a financial argument. You agreed to split roles, you can't now bring up the breadwinning as an argument.

For all we know, if she had kept working, she could be the main breadwinner by now.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

If the experiment is to switch places, should she not go and work outside the home for the weekend?


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Thoreau said:


> If the experiment is to switch places, should she not go and work outside the home for the weekend?


I repeat - the experiment is to walk in her shoes.

Of course if you're going to give her back all the time where she was the SAHM, then it may be fair for her to get work.

Note - I'm not saying she's right or that cleaning the house is unfair. I'm simply saying this is all about the husband quantifying the work to be done, and not about whether or not the wife should work.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I too want to know if she's always been like this.


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## binary (May 16, 2012)

Let me provide a bit more context. She's from another country and grew up with a nanny during her adolescent years, so it looks to me that she wants to apply that standard to our situation. Also, she grew up with 3 younger sisters who all shared in the household duties, something else that seems to color her expectations of what I should be doing despite the gross difference in our current living situation and her childhood, but I digress... Oh, and all her family live in another country, too, and I know she misses them very much (though her Mom and 2 of her sisters just spent a combined 2 months or so visiting late last year).

For the most part, we agree on _*what*_ needs to be done. Part of the friction stems from our differing views on _*how*_ and _*when*_ they should be. My observation-based opinion is that she's just disorganized (she actually acknowledged that once) and prioritizes things differently than I. She's not one who keeps track of time, either, so, to me, it's obvious why she decorates the house with her seemingly endless supply of unfinished tasks.

Oh yeah, and she's addicted to her phone (Facebook and texting her mom/sisters), but she wouldn't ever admit to that. We seldom have conversations that don't involve her doing something on her phone.

I hate to sound like I'm complaining, as I know this likely does, so my apologies for the tone of my posts.

Okay, so on to replying to you all...


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## binary (May 16, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> Do an experiment. Take a weekend and offer to let her do nothing. You be 100% responsible for the house and the children. See how it works for you. Not trying to be sarcastic. Just trying to allow you the opportunity to see what it is like to "be home all day" and tend to crying children, diapers, dressing, breakfast, baths, grocery shopping, errands, homework, lunch, dinner, cleaning, laundry....you get the idea. Perhaps with 4 kids, she has just reached a point of burn out. Maybe she is overwhelmed and doesn't know how to fix things. Being a SAHM is not as easy as it seems. There is no mental break knowing you get to clock out and walk away from it at 5pm. I have been both a SAHM and worked outside the home fulltime. I much prefer the job way from home.


Been there, done that (though this was before we had our 4th child). It was for a day and the house she came back to was in better shape than she left it. Of course, it did open my eyes a bit more. I'm in no way saying it's easy, but IMO there needs to be a structured approach to maintaining a house, especially with so many kids. She has a problem with the whole structure/routine thing. She thinks it's too rigid and has apparently found a way to feel at ease in the clutter and chaos of our house.

Fwiw, I take care of our finances (and all other administrative affairs), home repairs, maintain the yard and vehicles, do the majority of the grocery shopping and errand-running as well as participate in the kids' extracurriculars, so working isn't the only thing I do  



SaltInWound said:


> The reality check is that if you walk away from this, she just might decide to let you have custody of the kids and not only will you be working fulltime, you will also be taking care of the 4 kids on your own, with all the responsibility you expect from your wife right now. Best of luck.


I've considered that, and I honestly feel that imposing at least a moderate amount of structure (again, something she resists) will leave us all better off. It's hard to think that because she is a good person overall; most of the time I just can't stand living with her.



Alpha said:


> Let me ask, besides the messy house, any other issues? How is your sex life? Is her drive still there? What about yours? Do you still go out on dates?


Of course there are other issues. With having so many kids and no family near to watch them, we seldom spend any one-on-one time together. She prefers that time to be spent out and about (read: spending $$); I prefer something simpler like having consistent talks say, after the kids go to bed (we don't even do that). I'm all for shared experiences, but what good are they atop a cracked foundation? So no, no dates.

Sex comes and goes. I've always been the initiator. Over the past 10 years, I can count the times she's initiated on one hand. And when we do, it's a repeat of the last time. Sometimes I'm okay with that, other times, not so much.

Communication is a big one. It's difficult to get her to discuss issues to any meaningful level of detail. Anytime we have a disagreement she shuts down and just says we have a difference of opinion. And when I query her on how we might be able to bridge that gap, she puts up her wall. Mind you, most of our talks consist of mostly me probing her in attempts to get more than one- or two-word answers. I'm forever chasing her, and I'm so, so, so tired of that.

Up until recently, I worked a lot. Too much, actually, to the tune of 70+ hours per week. I did this for the last 2.5 years or so. She resented me at times for that due to having less help with the kids, but my view was that it was all in the interest of securing our future and creating more time for us moving forward. It turned out to be all for naught, unfortunately, and while she in principle supported what I was trying to accomplish, I think she still holds some resentment based in the reality of the position I put her in. 



Alpha said:


> Most of the time, we'll nitpick and find fault with the little things, when indeed there are other major issues that lie hidden underneath.


There is certainly some of that, though I am a bit of a neat freak, and my dissatisfaction with our living situation probably 'enhances' that trait... 

There was a period of time during which I'd consistently clamor for attention and she just wouldn't respond, and then when I'd push even harder the only response I'd get was negative. My approaches weren't always sound, but my intentions never changed, and she never seemed to realize what I was trying to do. I've since stopped as it turned out to be futile.



Alpha said:


> Who cares if she isn't a perfect homemaker? Maybe she never expected to be one or didn't grow up in the environment that encouraged it. If her only fault is an unkempt home, you shouldn't be complaining.


I want to feel comfortable in my own home, and living in an obstacle course does the opposite for me. Also, I want my kids to see examples of what structured, organized living is like _at least some of the time_. If they don't know how to be productive in their own homes, how can they possibly be prepared for the world that awaits them? I cringe every time I hear my wife fuss at the kids for leaving their clothes on their bathroom floor while hers are on the floor in the next room. I don't agree with the "do as I say, not as I do" style of parenting.



caladan said:


> ...When I get back from work, I don't have time to criticize, I see a mess, I clean it up. Simples...


I wish it were that easy. I was raised to close whatever I opened and put back whatever I took out. She doesn't practice that. Ironically, she then complains about having so much work to do, but again, I digress... More to the point, our 'mess' problem is a systemic one. Very few spaces are organized in our house: the linen closet, upstairs and downstairs closets, kitchen pantry, pretty much every closed space is a lesson in disorganization. As such, cleaning up most messes would first require establishing some order in the spaces which would accommodate elements of any given mess. And yes, I've done that quite a few times, but I'm the only one who attempts to maintain said organization. She just throws/stuffs things in wherever she can, justifying it by saying she has too many things to think about to try and keep things organized, or, that such organization "doesn't work" for her (I actually try to keep things organized so I have to think _less _about what I'm doing). Makes me feel she doesn't appreciate the effort I made to organize the space in the first place. Highly frustrating. It's worth noting that we don't have a very large house, so we need to be very economical with the space we have.



Toffer said:


> That's a lot of small kids!
> 
> You need to help out when you get home each and every night until the kids become a little more self-sufficient


Agreed, and I did that when we had fewer kids and I had a less stressful job. However, when I realized that a great deal of the problem stemmed from her perceived (by me) disorganization and refusal to try anything different, I stopped trying and just did my best to keep as small a footprint in the house as I could. I have my limits on how much I should be cleaning up after an adult. Some of the time, sure. All of the time, no.



mablenc said:


> ...So, has she always been like that? If not, please be considerate four kids is a lot I can barely deal with one. We use the weekends to to major cleaning and get the house straight for the week...


I think the answer is yes, though I didn't realize it early on. I remember after we had our first child she showed some signs, and I thought I was nipping it in the bud by saying that our place was too small to be leaving things all over the place (we lived in a 1-bedroom apartment at the time). She said "okay," but it seems to have been one of those "okay, I heard you"-type of responses instead of what I thought was an "okay, I see what you're saying and agree"-type response. While I realized it more over time, I just figured it would eventually correct itself or I'd find a way to deal with it. Neither has happened. Perhaps what I thought was patience on my part was actually foolishness.



mablenc said:


> ...I also recommend to get rid of clutter. Get the older kids to help. Enjoy them they grow up fast, before you know it you will have an empty nest and wish to come in to a home full of toys and laughter.


Yes, the clutter: she's quite the pack-rat, always full of good intentions but short on follow-through, unfortunately. Example: we accumulated something like 20 16-ounce mason jars. She said she could store stuff in them or whatever... All they did was take up space for months until I decided to get rid of all but 6 of them. Same went for the little plastic spice containers in the pantry, and the plastic hangers we accumulated from buying the kids' clothes, and the stacks of junk mail on the kitchen table...

Let me also add: I've seen that she is indeed capable of 'getting it together' when she wants to. There've been many times when I've called on the way home to say "so-and-so's coming over. Can you straighten up a bit?" and she's able to make the place presentable with little notice. So why, then, is it so hard to do that with at least _some _frequency? Or, when we had a housekeeper, she'd straighten up the house before every visit. I never understood that. To me, it appears that she only wants to put forth the effort when someone else is looking.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

"Tidying" up the place and implementing full-scale "structure" and organization are different, IMO. Organizing things may take a bit more time and concentration then just gathering up the odds and ends and stashing them somewhere if company is coming.

The kids are very young and can be quite demanding. Is it more important to you that the house is perfect or that they are well-watched and cared for? Kids get into all sorts of things and practically have to be watched constantly. I can't imagine trying to carefully organize areas of the house with all the distraction they provide... Well, for me personally, I can tell you I wouldn't do a very good job. In fact, I'd probably make things a bigger mess than before. LoL!

It might be frustrating, but you even admitted that she has always been like this... Why ask her to change now? Especially when she has even more children than before? This might just be something you have to agree to disagree about, unfortunately. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## binary (May 16, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> "Tidying" up the place and implementing full-scale "structure" and organization are different, IMO. Organizing things may take a bit more time and concentration then just gathering up the odds and ends and stashing them somewhere if company is coming.


I agree that they are different. What I do not understand is the "I'm too busy to be organized" argument. And if I'm willing to put forth the time and effort to do the initial organization (again, which I've done, and she can participate if she wants), is it too much to ask for her help in maintaining it so our house is "live-able" for everyone?



YinPrincess said:


> The kids are very young and can be quite demanding. Is it more important to you that the house is perfect or that they are well-watched and cared for?...


Maybe I wasn't clear earlier, but my expectation isn't for the house to be perfect. My expectation is for her to pick up after herself, and over time the kids will learn by the example we set for them. Is that unrealistic?



YinPrincess said:


> It might be frustrating, but you even admitted that she has always been like this... Why ask her to change now? Especially when she has even more children than before? This might just be something you have to agree to disagree about, unfortunately. :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think I am asking her to change "now." This is a historical issue that I raised early and had hoped would work itself out over time. I had also hoped that she would see the same benefits that I do, and although she acknowledges them, she maintains that it's more work for her to remain in an organized state than a chaotic one. I don't think I'd mind as much if we didn't have kids, but since we do it means a lot to me that we teach them traits of productive people. If disorganized people are successful more than they are not I'd feel more at ease. I don't think that's the case, though (?).


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

> I agree that they are different. What I do not understand is the "I'm too busy to be organized" argument. And if I'm willing to put forth the time and effort to do the initial organization (again, which I've done, and she can participate if she wants), is it too much to ask for her help in maintaining it so our house is "live-able" for everyone?


Well, you use the word "live-able" and then claim to not ask for "perfection" while talking about organizing linen closets... To say this is a bit of a confusion is an understatement. To answer your question, yes, it apparently is too much to ask, (of her), because she's busy. Doesn't mean you or I couldn't do it, but she's telling you her limitations.



> Maybe I wasn't clear earlier, but my expectation isn't for the house to be perfect. My expectation is for her to pick up after herself, and over time the kids will learn by the example we set for them. Is that unrealistic?


Realistic? Sure. Is it going to happen? Probably not. You've talked about her picking up after herself, then talked about structure and organization... Maybe it is overwhelming to her and she's doing what she can. With four kids no one here is surprised that you come home to annoying messes every day. We probably all do. Have you tried praising her for what she does well? Have you thanked her for tending your beautiful, healthy, fed, bathed and happy children? That's her first and foremost job, and if that gets done, she should be recognized for it! Praise is a highly motivating factor sometimes... When someone is praising us and telling us what a wonderful job we did, we feel motivated to improve upon that and get more praise and attention... Just a thought. Doesn't work for everyone, but it wouldn't hurt to let out some kind words along with the complaints. 



> don't think I am asking her to change "now." This is a historical issue that I raised early and had hoped would work itself out over time. I had also hoped that she would see the same benefits that I do, and although she acknowledges them, she maintains that it's more work for her to remain in an organized state than a chaotic one. I don't think I'd mind as much if we didn't have kids, but since we do it means a lot to me that we teach them traits of productive people. If disorganized people are successful more than they are not I'd feel more at ease. I don't think that's the case, though (?).


Well, you do need to see her "productivity" in terms of what does get accomplished. Just because every little thing didn't get done doesn't mean she was unproductive or unsuccessful. Perhaps inefficient, maybe. You said this is a "historical issue" and therefore, unlikely to change. 

I know this is a pet peeve for you, and that you're very frustrated by it, but there really is nothing you can do to "make" her see your side of things and agree to do things your way. You are two different people... Having different styles of handling things is... Normal. Annoying, but normal. It's ok, in fact, that you have these differences. You can try talking to her again, try asking her what is holding her back, or what would make things easier for her - but you've got to be ready to see her point of view as well and be willing to negotiate and compromise. Or at the very least, understand where she's coming from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> The kids are very young and can be quite demanding. Is it more important to you that the house is perfect or that they are well-watched and cared for? Kids get into all sorts of things and practically have to be watched constantly. I can't imagine trying to carefully organize areas of the house with all the distraction they provide... Well, for me personally, I can tell you I wouldn't do a very good job. In fact, I'd probably make things a bigger mess than before. LoL!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I kind of disagree with the kids excuse. Kids work with what they are given, raise your kids in clutter and they get desensitized to cluster. Not tidying up is failing in a crucial part of child upbringing.

Ergo: i can't raise my kids properly because I'm too busy raising my kids.

With the OP's last post, I'm now comfortable we're no longer dealing with the typical "I work, so you clean the house" situation. If I'm shoddy at work, I'd get fired, the wife needs to step up.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

That's fine, we all have different threshholds. If their house doesn't look like it should be on an episode of Hoarders then why sweat the small stuff. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## binary (May 16, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> Well, you use the word "live-able" and then claim to not ask for "perfection" while talking about organizing linen closets... To say this is a bit of a confusion is an understatement. To answer your question, yes, it apparently is too much to ask, (of her), because she's busy. Doesn't mean you or I couldn't do it, but she's telling you her limitations.


I think I unintentionally presented two separate frustrations as one, so to clarify, here they are:

not cleaning up after herself
household disorganization

Nor do I mean to say that the former is the solution to the latter. I am saying, however, that the former does indeed make the latter more difficult to deal with because I see it as contributory.



YinPrincess said:


> Realistic? Sure. Is it going to happen? Probably not. You've talked about her picking up after herself, then talked about structure and organization... Maybe it is overwhelming to her and she's doing what she can. With four kids no one here is surprised that you come home to annoying messes every day. We probably all do. Have you tried praising her for what she does well? Have you thanked her for tending your beautiful, healthy, fed, bathed and happy children? That's her first and foremost job, and if that gets done, she should be recognized for it! Praise is a highly motivating factor sometimes... When someone is praising us and telling us what a wonderful job we did, we feel motivated to improve upon that and get more praise and attention... Just a thought. Doesn't work for everyone, but it wouldn't hurt to let out some kind words along with the complaints.


Understood. Admittedly, praise is something that I haven't done much of. I think that has a lot to do with my upbringing. We (my family) didn't really praise each other for things understood to be within our realm of responsibility. Just like I don't expect my wife to constantly praise me for working to provide a roof over our heads. I see what I do as my responsibility, my motivation being the well-being of my family. I understand when others say there's value to using words as praise, but IMO that shouldn't be a primary source of motivation.



YinPrincess said:


> Well, you do need to see her "productivity" in terms of what does get accomplished. Just because every little thing didn't get done doesn't mean she was unproductive or unsuccessful. Perhaps inefficient, maybe. You said this is a "historical issue" and therefore, unlikely to change.
> 
> I know this is a pet peeve for you, and that you're very frustrated by it, but there really is nothing you can do to "make" her see your side of things and agree to do things your way. You are two different people... Having different styles of handling things is... Normal. Annoying, but normal. It's ok, in fact, that you have these differences. You can try talking to her again, try asking her what is holding her back, or what would make things easier for her - but you've got to be ready to see her point of view as well and be willing to negotiate and compromise. Or at the very least, understand where she's coming from.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


While I don't like the constant chaos, part of the deeper issue is that she's unwilling to compromise. She wants me to do more around the house, and when I do, she says it's "not functional" for her when I, for example, organize the tupperware so that all the matching pieces are together. But I live in our house, too, so I don't see why me "helping" should be solely on her terms. After all this time I wonder whether a compromise is possible.


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## binary (May 16, 2012)

caladan said:


> I kind of disagree with the kids excuse. Kids work with what they are given, raise your kids in clutter and they get desensitized to cluster. Not tidying up is failing in a crucial part of child upbringing.
> 
> Ergo: i can't raise my kids properly because I'm too busy raising my kids...


That's how I see it, actually.


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