# What would you do?



## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

I just posted an article giving history and context here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/84993-perspective-needed-i-wrote-letter-my-wife.html

From a cheating/infidelity standpoint, i post my observations here. What i need from you guys/gals is an opinion please.

My wife has been an introvert for a long time. Now that she is the primary driver (i do not drive) she is responsible for getting kids to/from school/activities/shopping. We try to do most of this together. Anyway.

My wife has become more social mainly with men. She apparently does not get along very well with women. her words. (funny, last night at soccer practice she got along just fine).

She has befriended a few of the dads that she has run into at various places in the small town we are in. Anyway, since the smothered comment i have noticed changes.
1) she carries her purse with her everywhere. Cell phone is in the purse.
2) cell phone text messages are deleted - except the last one so she can easily find/reply.
3) She was in the bathroom a week ago, her purse was in the car. I went out to the car, to get a debit card out of her purse. She came flying out of the house to 'check to see what i was doing'.
4) I have only ever known her to get a yeast infection primarly after having sex and falling asleep together. She had a yeast infection following the 'smothered' conversation. She attributes the infection to 'new bubble bath' and 'hot baths'.
5) her bathing routine has changed. Previously, she would jump in and out of the tub after her work outs. Now she does it the following day. The significance being that she does not bath before coming to bed now.
6) she told me that guy (that i am suspicious of) was 'laughing all week' at something she did. The guy's son and our son are great friends - which is how they met. They (wife, kids, and guy and guy's kids) all got the park and play about once a week.
7) The day of the week W goes to the park with kids, she is more distant at night. Last week she slept on the couch "so i would not be disturbed". this week she came to bed at 130am after her workout and doing other stuff. (btw, woke me up and have been up since).
8) i have had access to her phone, but seems kinda staged re deleting messages.
9) apparently they run into each other at a local convenience store on occasion in the morning as well.
10) the three nights following the "smothered" chat, she would 'go get a coffee" which is a 15 min round trip... and be gone an hour. not answer her phone or texts...

i have poured over numerous links for signs, like this one:
10 Signs Your Partner is Cheating on You - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
1) cellphone - yes. the purse and cell phone are in the same room as her at all times. including, bathroom, downstairs at the couch while she is working out, in the closet at night - which would make noise if i wanted to get at it....
2) attitude - yes.
3) clothing - she has started going for a massage and spray tanning - so ? no.
4) bathroom. sometimes.
5) going out - no.
6) sex. drastic change in habits.
7) truck/car - i have free access.
8) unexplained receipts - none that i could find via bank statements.
9) Friends. The one guy is single.
10) gut. this is both our second marriage. Actions speak louder than words, and i dont believe in coincidence. so, to sum it up. I am in the no camp.


So before you guys/gals beat me up about 'what i shouldnt do' i already did.
a) i asked her about her relationship with 'guy'. said they were just friends and she felt like a mother.
b) asked her questions about what they talk about. Like do they talk about personal problems, our relationship details, ya da ya da.

What would you do?


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## benderjl1 (Aug 17, 2012)

The way you present this makes it seem like you believe she is cheating on you. It is hard to tell if some of these items are blown out of proportion or they are serious threats. 

The whole text messaging thing is troublesome. That doesnt mean she is sleeping with other people, but could easily be flirtatious with them. 

In my opinion, she is sleeping with this guy, but is close or wants too. Fix what is in front of you. Plan a big, romantic night out. Maybe she will remember why she fell in love with you and the other guy will be a distant memory. 

It seems like she is checking out and could be headed to an affair soon. Bring back some romance in your relationship (no, not sex) and try to win her back. She will either drop the other guy or realize she wants to drop you.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Some serious red flags the way this is presented. Do you have access to your cell phone bills? It will show the texting activity. Have you bought voice activated recorders for the car and hidden them yet?

First and foremost you have to act like you DONT suspect a thing until you do some digging. You don't want her hiding things more than she is now. I don't know what your finances are like, but a private detective will follow your wife for 4 hours for around 300.00

For piece of mind, you need to explore all your doubts.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

You might want to do some reading, or even have this thread moved to coping with infidelity, as you will get more advice on things to look for and how to deal with them.

Good luck, my heart goes out to you, you must be in a complete panic to say the least.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Quote:

i have poured over numerous links for signs, like this one:
10 Signs Your Partner is Cheating on You - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
1) cellphone - yes. the purse and cell phone are in the same room as her at all times. including, bathroom, downstairs at the couch while she is working out, in the closet at night - which would make noise if i wanted to get at it....
2) attitude - yes.
3) clothing - she has started going for a massage and spray tanning - so ? no.
4) bathroom. sometimes.
5) going out - no.
6) sex. drastic change in habits.
7) truck/car - i have free access.
8) unexplained receipts - none that i could find via bank statements.
9) Friends. The one guy is single.
10) gut. this is both our second marriage. Actions speak louder than words, and i dont believe in coincidence. so, to sum it up. I am in the no camp.
-------------------------------------------------------



From my experiences:

1) cellphone - yes. the purse and cell phone are in the same room as her at all times. including, bathroom, downstairs at the couch while she is working out, in the closet at night - which would make noise if i wanted to get at it....

Keeping it close by all the time is a red flag unless someone is ill or she could lose her job because of not answering a specific call.

Edit: I wanted to modify this to say that there may be nothing going on. Most of us take our cell phones everywhere. It just would seem odd to take it "everywhere", like the bathroom or when running to the car or washing clothes in the laundry room. Seems like the short period of time without the phone would indicate anticipation of an emotionally important call.
2) attitude - yes.

Yes and no as far as possible affair happening. Obviously, something is going on within your marriage or her attitude would not be different. Communication.


3) clothing - she has started going for a massage and spray tanning - so ? no.

Spray tanning generally means a person doesn't have the tolerance for the UV light that others have or a person cares about their health. Tanning in itself means she wants to feel better about herself by looking better. It can mean she is getting herself prepped for another relationship or just simply that she wants to look better for herself. Again, you need to talk with her about something that is bothering her. It may not be you at all.

4) bathroom. sometimes.

5) going out - no.

Are you certain you would know if she is going out?

6) sex. drastic change in habits.

Maybe nothing, but merits further investigation. Again, she is going through something emotional and maybe life altering for the both of you. Communication and investigation.

7) truck/car - i have free access.

It would look to suspicious if you did not. Besides, you can't use both at the same time.


8) unexplained receipts - none that i could find via bank statements.

There are many ways to do this. How much do you know about her income and expenses. It may be nothing.

9) Friends. The one guy is single.

Single or married, it's a slippery slope being friends with a person of the opposite sex. They are probably discussing simple things like what their favorite color is and what kind of car they like and what shows they like to watch. Nothing to worry about when it is personal. 

10) gut. this is both our second marriage. Actions speak louder than words, and i dont believe in coincidence. so, to sum it up. I am in the no camp.

I think you have valid reasons to believe she is not cheating or even in an EA. I also think you have valid reasons to believe she might be starting one. Nip it in the bud with some careful communication, some VAR work and some follow-up marriage counseling to be certain her needs are being met. It sounds like they are not. Someone here will have a book suggestion about that.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I just read your other thread, in the ladies section. 

Your marriage has been spiraling down hill for a quite a while. Because of that, I'd say she is definitely open to getting her emotional needs fulfilled outside the marriage. You can always use a VAR or phone spy wear to check that. 

My question is beside coming here now, what have you done to improve your relationship? MC, IC, church marriage encounters, self help books? Do you even know what her emotional needs are? What makes her smile or turns her on?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

For starters, I have not read any of your other threads.



JohnnyTheRomantic said:


> My wife has become more social mainly with men. She apparently does not get along very well with women. her words. (funny, last night at soccer practice she got along just fine).


Just a personal opinion: I am always kind of wary of a woman who isn't friends with other women. But that is neither here nor there. Just how I operate. 




JohnnyTheRomantic said:


> i have noticed changes.
> 
> 1) she carries her purse with her everywhere. Cell phone is in the purse.
> 2) cell phone text messages are deleted - except the last one so she can easily find/reply.
> 3) She was in the bathroom a week ago, her purse was in the car. I went out to the car, to get a debit card out of her purse. She came flying out of the house to 'check to see what i was doing'.


All MAJOR red flags for cheating. I'm not saying she is but I am saying all o these are super duper suspicious.

One of the major things a cheater does is NOT let that cell phone out of sight and keep deleting texts and phone calls.




JohnnyTheRomantic said:


> 4) I have only ever known her to get a yeast infection primarly after having sex and falling asleep together. She had a yeast infection following the 'smothered' conversation. She attributes the infection to 'new bubble bath' and 'hot baths'.


This could be a non-issue. Yeast infections in women are common and CAN happen because of soaking in a tub (bacteria).

The bathing thing is weird as far as hygiene goes. I don't see why she wouldn't shower? But I see no correlation to possibly cheating regarding this.



JohnnyTheRomantic said:


> 7) The day of the week W goes to the park with kids, she is more distant at night. Last week she slept on the couch "so i would not be disturbed". t*his week she came to bed at 130am after her workout and doing other stuff. *


Why does she work out at 1:30 a.m. Work schedule? 24 hour gym?




JohnnyTheRomantic said:


> 10) the three nights following the "smothered" chat, she would 'go get a coffee" which is a 15 min round trip... and be gone an hour. not answer her phone or texts...


Kind of a red flag. An hour happens quickly especially if she had to take the time to drive, sit down and drink coffee, maybe ran an errand and drove back.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

I'll just comment on one thing. The good friend/mother comment, that means absolutely nothing! My WW told me the same thing! "I'm almost old enough to be his mother!" She is, but that didn't stop her from texting him 2,000 Times a month and bonking him for over a year. The fact that he was so much younger and interested in her just feed her self esteem just that much more and gave her a good alibi. I mean I believed her, why would this dude want to bonk his mother? So don't fall for that kind of bull.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Here is your plan. I have about 15 cheating wives under my belt here in 6 months, so yea. I know this part.

1) Go to best buy and buy 2 sony voice activated recorders (VAR) model icdpx312. They are 50 dollars each. DO NOT ACCEPT lesser brands. Buy LITHIUM batteries. They can be in the car all week and get a 6 hour recording and still appear full or in house and do 25 hours and be half full.
2) Go to walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
3) Put one var under her car seat using the heavy duty velcro. ATTACH IT WELL
4) Put the second wherever she talks to others in in the home and you are not around.

Ill put your odds of EA at 75% and PA 60%.

WARNING. If you hear another man get into her car STOP LISTENING! knowing she is cheating will kill you. Hearing her moan with another man inside her will murder you to your very soul! You are not strong enough to take that. Have a trusted friend listen for you and get a heads up.

Check cell bill for suspicious texts or repeated numbers.
Note if she changes panties at odd times or goes and puts them immediately into the wash.

Those 15 minute turns into an hour trips are suspicious. Have a friend who can follow? For that matter have a friend who can get you to best buy and walmart?


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

She is cheating brother. I am sorry. The whole phone thing is a dead giveaway. Now you just are looking at how far she is gone. Weightlifter gave you some great advice. I would take it if I were you. Don't hesitate.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Var in the car now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

Hey guys, thanks for the input. I have read the get a VAR now, etc. and 'if you here a man stop listening'. i was hoping that my suspicions were not true and i over reacted or misinterpreted red flags... unfortunately for me you guys confirmed them. 

Here is what i am going to do: Nothing. I read the just walk away thread. She has a surgery coming up next Friday and if the red flags are true - then she will not be able to resist contact. The opportunity will present itself. 

if i am overreacting, then i will deal with my issues.

Would seem kinda odd to carry your purse around the house the couple days after surgery...


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

JohnnyTheRomantic said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the input. I have read the get a VAR now, etc. and 'if you here a man stop listening'. i was hoping that my suspicions were not true and i over reacted or misinterpreted red flags... unfortunately for me you guys confirmed them.
> 
> Here is what i am going to do: Nothing. I read the just walk away thread. She has a surgery coming up next Friday and if the red flags are true - then she will not be able to resist contact. The opportunity will present itself.
> 
> ...



Umm so what are you going to do? Just wait till she has surgery and get into her phone? Or just going to file? Are you going to try to intercept a message?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Affairs generate a force filed that produces an attraction between cell phones and a cheater's hip. Sometimes the force field is so strong burner phones are spawned. Break up the affair and the force field vanishes.


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## betrayed2013 (Feb 5, 2013)

my stbxw did the exact same thing with her phone. Put a password on it and still hid it all. You'd never see the thing. Why? Well, becuz she was checking it wen I would leave and would get msgs from guys. She lied thru her teeth and sd no man is msging her. Then I found out she had an affair and then later on was talking to a guy she met thru a cheaters website. So dont believe a word she sz. I can almost guarantee she is talking with another male about stuff she clearly doesnt want you to read. I once had a great marriage, then my wife spiralled out of control and she cant even explain why she did all of this. They''ll lie right to the last chance before telling the truth. Its sick they would do that to someone who cares so deeply for them, but they will and do. Go into spy mode dude, youre going to find out a lot more than u ever thot possible.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This thread is better than the list you found, in my opinion:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ea-looking-back-early-signs-i-you-missed.html

I would get the VAR now and find out as soon as you can.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

JohnnyTheRomantic said:


> 7) The day of the week W goes to the park with kids, she is more distant at night. Last week she slept on the couch "so i would not be disturbed". this week she came to bed at 130am after her workout and doing other stuff. (btw, woke me up and have been up since).


This is the same excuse my wife gave me when she was having an EA. Stop this crap now. Yours is worse because my wife never hid her phone or deleted messages until the phone crashed. So, that's how she was caught.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Johnny,

Where there's smoke there's fire, as the saying goes. Too many things going on to be a coincidence.

Put your foot down. No more playdates in the park, texts, calls, etc, with this guy.

Don't listen to any arguing about 'just friends' either. 

Tell her simply that this guy makes you feel uncomfortable as to his intentions, and any LOYAL and LOVING wife would excuse him from her life for that reason alone.

Then monitor every way possible to make sure it doesn't go underground.

And I think you really need to find out more about those 'coffee' trips. They sound very suspicious to me. Especially since she went dark on all communication.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

If it was me, i'd start the 180 right away. 

The Healing Heart: The 180

its gonna help you separate your emotions a little bid, so you can work on yourself. Don't let your mind take over, be patient, be strong, and DO NOT get into conflicts with her right now.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I say it's pretty certain she is cheating, all the other red flags plus the big one where she goes out alone at night for a coffee for a hour or more.

Yeah, she's cheating, and you even know when.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

This is a shopping list of obvious red flags. Some are laughably, painfully, obvious.

She is having sex with another man.

Your head knows it, but your heart won't accept it.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Johnny,

Based on all the evidence you've provided .. the probability that she is already having sex with another man is about 90%. A faithful woman simply does not do all of the things you say your wife is currently doing.

Why don't you quit "guessing" and bust her? Hell, you even know when she's going out ... have a private investigator follow her and take pics.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Do as weightlifter said if you can handle the waiting. Me id just swipe the phone when shes in the shower. Based on your story something is going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry your here. The only thing that screams red flag is the phone thing. Her doing the 440 to the car for something innocent as a debit card, says she is def worried if by happenstance you hear a text beep or other. Who does that. If you have nothing to hide, then you wouldn't do those things. Keep coming here for help and suggestions and don't let here know about this site. The info we give or what you find will only help her hide that garbage even better. Stay a couple steps ahead of her. She is def up to something you just have to work at finding it. VAR, GPS, keylogger and apps to recover deleted things from her phone.
IMHO anyone who deletes texts and has never done that before is hiding something for sure.

BTW, I found what I needed by the online phone bill. EX: 400 plus texts to OM 137 to me. 1077 talk min OM, 200 to me. The facts were in my face. That was all I needed.


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

Thumper said:


> If it was me, i'd start the 180 right away.
> 
> The Healing Heart: The 180
> 
> its gonna help you separate your emotions a little bid, so you can work on yourself. Don't let your mind take over, be patient, be strong, and DO NOT get into conflicts with her right now.


I am reading this list over and over trying to memorize it now. Thank you.


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

So we had a talk last night (linked thread in first post). Posted most of the relationship stuff there.

In our conversation she feels like i am watching over her and every move. She told me that. patience is mandatory at this point.

From a coping perspective, whenever my mind "goes there" and you guys know what i am talking about. I stop it. And tell myself that i am making positive change to my life. I want her to be part of it. She will demonstrate if she wants to be part of my life through her actions and how she interacts with me.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

You need to understand, theres gonna be good days, bad days, GREAT days, and HORRIBLE days ahead. Don't get down if/when she doesn't demonstrate the steps your hoping she needs to take. Also don't let the smallest gains think your well on your way to recovery. This is where the patience can really come into play. Your in for a roller coaster ride, but you need to act like your standing in the hot dog line instead.

Commit yourself to the fact this is a LONG process, not days or even weeks, more likely MONTHS and possibly a year. If you keep things in that perspective you less likely to let yourself down when things aren't going so well.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I'd go as far as to say that the phone thing alone is a near-conclusive proof. There is zero reason to guard your phone from your spouse unless infidelity is involved (OK, maybe also if she hires a hitman on you)


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

Thumper said:


> You need to understand, theres gonna be good days, bad days, GREAT days, and HORRIBLE days ahead. Don't get down if/when she doesn't demonstrate the steps your hoping she needs to take. Also don't let the smallest gains think your well on your way to recovery. This is where the patience can really come into play. Your in for a roller coaster ride, but you need to act like your standing in the hot dog line instead.
> 
> Commit yourself to the fact this is a LONG process, not days or even weeks, more likely MONTHS and possibly a year. If you keep things in that perspective you less likely to let yourself down when things aren't going so well.


i have already started doing this. i like the hot dog line analogy. I think the line to take a piss at a game or concert would be more appropriate. joking around with 1/2 drunk guys waiting for your turn to unload the rented "item".


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

HarryDoyle said:


> I'll just comment on one thing. The good friend/mother comment, that means absolutely nothing! My WW told me the same thing! "I'm almost old enough to be his mother!" She is, but that didn't stop her from texting him 2,000 Times a month and bonking him for over a year. The fact that he was so much younger and interested in her just feed her self esteem just that much more and gave her a good alibi. I mean I believed her, why would this dude want to bonk his mother? So don't fall for that kind of bull.


When I was 28 I had a brief affair with a woman of 58. I didn't see her as a woman of a particular age. She was one of the most pretty and captivating women I had ever met. So age means nothing, to be frank.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

JohnnyTheRomantic said:


> So we had a talk last night (linked thread in first post). Posted most of the relationship stuff there.
> 
> In our conversation she feels like i am watching over her and every move. She told me that. patience is mandatory at this point.
> 
> From a coping perspective, whenever my mind "goes there" and you guys know what i am talking about. I stop it. And tell myself that i am making positive change to my life. I want her to be part of it. She will demonstrate if she wants to be part of my life through her actions and how she interacts with me.


Wait. Did she admit something?

Crap if not, you drove her underground. Sigh.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Wait. Did she admit something?
> 
> Crap if not, you drove her underground. Sigh.


That hardly seems unique. I think we've all considered putting a wws underground. 

Wait, perhaps I misunderstood that one...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnnyTheRomantic (Jun 7, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> That hardly seems unique. I think we've all considered putting a wws underground.
> 
> Wait, perhaps I misunderstood that one...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


nope. it wasnt a 'fight' or 'argument'. she just senses something is up. so, not driven underground, but more apprehensive.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Keep doing the 180. I think you are greatly hurt and confused. I am sorry for that. It is a difficult thing to go through. I think the reason your wife left the bathroom door open was so that you would notice her. Because you did the 180 properly. That should happen some. It means nothing except she noticed and is checking things. 

You need to keep your posts in one thread. What you are going through, whether she is cheating or not is usually covered withing the "Coping with Infidelity" section. I know you have two threads now. You may want to ask weightlifter what would be the best thing to do. I got here too late to try the 180. 

I will be thinking about you. Take care of yourself and do the very best you can. There is so much to learn and read and do right now. I am very sorry you are going through all of this. Know that I have felt pain from the issues with my failed marriage. It's little comfort other than maybe some empathy.

Some folks go to the "Private" section. The more experienced members will know what to do. Sometimes they are harsh because they want the best for you and they don't want you to make mistakes, especially the same ones they've done or seen done before. Most of the time, it is the depression and anxiety that make folks, including me read something that isn't there and misinterpret. These guys can make suggestions that, if you try to follow, may well reduce that stress. 

You will need to occupy your time with things to try to take your mind off of all of this when you have to wait. I know you can't stop thinking about it, but you may just be able to put it in the back of your mind instead of the front for a little while.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why do you not drive?

You need to read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER available to download or book from amazon.com among others. Very few men understand the male/female dynamic. This is a must read.

Has your wife always deleted everything from her phone? Very very shady.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why do you not go to the playground with her? Is the om married?


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