# What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Man, I guess it is just boredom that brought me to revisting this site. I guess being mostly isolated from people now makes me appreciate the crap I don't have to endure. Nearly every post has to do with cheating, scandals, lack of sex, crappy sex, kid drama, in-law drama, etc, etc, etc. What the hell is wrong with people anymore? Just stumbled into the one on the men's page where the guy decided he needed to hook up with his 
"10" and destroy his family.....so fun.....

I think I am starting to see why so many choose to escape life. The internet age has been a HUGE detriment to social society. Now "options" are just a tap away, but I guess the local watering hole is probably always full of "opportunities". I can't even point the finger at one sex, because both do the same thing. 

If you need a "one stop shop" to promote complete isolation, this is it! It's like not even worth it. Find "the one" and sooner or later she will run off with "the next one" and you are back on the market, writing checks for kids that can't be cashed. What is the "American Dream" anymore? 

All I have learned so far is people, be it man or woman, associate (at least with me) out of want or need. Men want to associate so you can provide "wing support" or information to help them in some way. Women are looking for a "partner" to write checks, hold hands, and be "the guy" until the next comes along. 

So what is it about humanity that makes people here want to stay in this circle of constant drama?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

This is a marriage web site. Naturally, people who are troubled and in distress in their relationships are going to post here looking for advice/feedback.

Yes, people do associate with one another because that is wired into our DNA. People need to be in relationships in order to, well, RELATE. Sad but true, far too many are troubled. But people are flawed beings.

Men want "wing support" (whatever the hell THAT means) and "information" (also, whatever the hell THAT means) while women are seeking out men to "write checks" until the next sucker comes along.

Sounds like men have rather innocent needs while women are sniffing around for a paycheck and free ride, according to your outlook.

You certainly have a right to your opinion(s). Personally, I think you are one lonely, disconnected, messed up dude. But, as I generally say, it's your life and your choice(s).


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

"grabs the popcorn"

This thread is about to get good!


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Men want "wing support" (whatever the hell THAT means) and "information" (also, whatever the hell THAT means) while women are seeking out men to "write checks" until the next sucker comes along.
> 
> Sounds like men have rather innocent needs while women are sniffing around for a paycheck and free ride, according to your outlook.


"wing support" means "wing man", which means "act like we are friends while I survey the area for women..... As I mentioned, just as a perspective of myself, men typically only contact me when they need or want something. I carry a wealth of knowledge except for relationships so men tend to bother we with all their plumbing, electrical, auto, mechanical issues. I have got rid of most of them once I stopped the "freebie" hemorrhage. 

No, I am not looking to demean women here, as many are truly independent and professional, but many that I have encountered stack up "opportunities" based on looks, then money, then status, THEN personality and quality. I have sat in on "girl chat" before. It is depressing. There is a LARGE group of women in my area that hover around the mentality (and I think many really do) that you work HARD to make yourself look appealing to men, so you can be taken in, where you don't have to work, just raise them kiddos and watch soaps, and jabber. 

BUT, before people attack that, as I just mentioned, I know plenty that are hard working professional types. It is just that I have met a LARGE number of women that basically work for minimum wage but live like they are famous. Their basic play in life is to find someone to write the big checks for them. Hell, I damn near married one. I know all about gold diggers. 

But men....Lets just say even my BEST friends are wired the same. "She is pretty, you should keep her"...... that is all that matters. So I am not saying only women are shallow. 

But people still want to throw that ring on, like it means something. Vows could never mean less.....


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I’m glad I don’t have such a bleak outlook on the world. Most people here are in the **** of some kind or crawled out of a hole sometime back. That after all is what this place is mostly about. Each sex has their own gender junk to own but that news is as old as time itself. After all.... how boring would it be for every person here to say.... I love my perfect life and perfect wife.

People love drama...reality TV is a hit for a reason. Oh yeah I forgot to mention there is a lot of sex talk as well.... that stuff always sells.

I’m a man ...I like women. I like the way they talk, the way they walk, the way they swing their hips, and the way they paint their lips. 

If ya can’t run with the dogs....stay on the porch.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> Man, I guess it is just boredom that brought me to revisting this site.
> 
> Find "the one" and sooner or later she will run off with "the next one" and you are back on the market, writing checks for kids that can't be cashed.
> 
> ...


You are entitled to hold with this philosophy. And you are right that there are people here who are addicted to drama and misery. Why? I don't know. For me, life is too short to waste it on feeling miserable. 

What "information" is it you believe men seek from women? 

As far as people staying in "constant drama" just look at the political climate of this country. Everyone is either ranting about something they perceive as wrong, trying to get the goods on someone else (they think is wrong), or are perpetually offended by an offhand comment someone made that they considered sexist/racist/whatever. Troubling times, but this is the world in which we live.

You are a lonely man. You are an angry, hurt man. And you can sing, "I am a rock, I am an island" all you want, but it don't cut no ice. Like it or not, you are part of the human race. Unless your a misanthrope, you are stuck with the rest of us, flaws and all. Isolate all you want, but be aware you are living a life unrealized.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Meh. You sound just like the bitter angry people you are labeling in this forum and in society.

I mean everyone blames the internet, but all the same stuff was occurring just in a different medium.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Agreed. You should stay away from people Bob.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

bobsmith said:


> "wing support" means "wing man", which means "act like we are friends while I survey the area for women..... As I mentioned, just as a perspective of myself, men typically only contact me when they need or want something. I carry a wealth of knowledge except for relationships so men tend to bother we with all their plumbing, electrical, auto, mechanical issues. I have got rid of most of them once I stopped the "freebie" hemorrhage.
> 
> No, I am not looking to demean women here, as many are truly independent and professional, but many that I have encountered stack up "opportunities" based on looks, then money, then status, THEN personality and quality. I have sat in on "girl chat" before. It is depressing. There is a LARGE group of women in my area that hover around the mentality (and I think many really do) that you work HARD to make yourself look appealing to men, so you can be taken in, where you don't have to work, just raise them kiddos and watch soaps, and jabber.
> 
> ...


Yup, l also agree that you are narrow minded, seeking revenge on a society, you think has offered you a bum deal. Thank goodness because of a mentality such as your gives those who suffer, reason to seek help and not hold anyone accountable for their happiness. 

But again as your return to this site, you know that we are there. And though you relay negativity you still get a say in the world. And get a response maybe to confirm your belief that the world is against you. It isn't even if you attempt to a rise out of those who think differently than you.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I am not sure why the thread steered towards me. I was basically wondering how and why people still desire this "marriage/kids/spouse/etc/etc"? Statistics, threads on this site, and even one moderator, seem to indicate that this mentality is flawed IMO. Around 50% of people in at least America are married. Of that 50%, at least 50% will divorce (it will be messy, count on it), and of those that decide to walk the plank again, another 60% of those will divorce again, and again, and again.........Who usually wins in the USA? Women.... You betcha, especially if there are kids involved, unless the woman can be proven as a mental case suitable for a straight jacket, she will be given higher rank as the parent. 


Yet, people seek to keep doing it..... Even on this site, basically no one comes here to say "I love my life", it is usually quite the opposite. Is this like the lottery where the odds are SO stacked, yet that micro chance of happiness makes it all worth it? 

You can think what you want of me. I learned quick that good moral standards are not rewarded in society so I now just feel sorry for those women that cross my path.


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

This post reminds me of thousands of times when I was the “wing man”.

I am a woman.

It happens both ways.

Thank you for the dinner? Taxi home? Couple of beers? Telling me you were single when your pregnant wife was at home?

Yaaaaaa


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

bobsmith said:


> I am not sure why the thread steered towards me. I was basically wondering how and why people still desire this "marriage/kids/spouse/etc/etc"? Statistics, threads on this site, and even one moderator, seem to indicate that this mentality is flawed IMO. Around 50% of people in at least America are married. Of that 50%, at least 50% will divorce (it will be messy, count on it), and of those that decide to walk the plank again, another 60% of those will divorce again, and again, and again.........Who usually wins in the USA? Women.... You betcha, especially if there are kids involved, unless the woman can be proven as a mental case suitable for a straight jacket, she will be given higher rank as the parent.
> 
> 
> *Yet, people seek to keep doing it..... Even on this site, basically no one comes here to say "I love my life", it is usually quite the opposite. Is this like the lottery where the odds are SO stacked, yet that micro chance of happiness makes it all worth it? *


 Of course not it is a site to help people with their marital problems, so go figure!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I like this site. It helped me to sort out how I wanted to go forward in a dating relationship I had at the the time. And 8 years on, I am happily married to the same guy.

I was before spoonfed the "if you don't like it, move on" kind of advice. That works great when you're about 18 not when you're 50 +. sadly, the world does get smaller.

Whether a relationship works out or not, you can really do yourself a favor by learning to negotiate.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

You know, I am going to say something the may be controversial. Everything you said may be true, a good majority of people may act like you described but there is an answer as to why people like me keep trying......HOPE.

Hope that I can find other people that have the same dreams, desires, love and compassion that I do. Yes, I have been hurt by people that have acted exactly the way you described. Yes, I am bitter about it but NO, I have not let it warp my view of the world. If anything, it has made me smarter and more protective of who I allow in my inner circle.
If you want to stop being surrounded by ****, stop swimming in the sewer.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Me too! For the most part, I know which threads to stay away from. 











NextTimeAround said:


> I like this site.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Another man who got his feelings hurt by a woman ……. how common.

Just for the record I do love my life … and my wife. We are one and only's from high school age.

There are divorced people here that are MUCH happier now that they are single or remarried. @notmyjamie @Diana7

If you learn to be a better man ...everything else just falls into place …. no resentment or bitter outlook required.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes!!!









If people would acknowledge/deal with their own 'red flags' instead of obsessing over the behavior of others, the world would be a much different/better place.



Mr.Married said:


> If you learn to be a better man ...everything else just falls into place …. no resentment or bitter outlook required.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Gosh, your outlook is indeed depressing. But I can't say it reflects my life. My marriage failed and I acknowledge that it was my fault. But even in my failed marriage neither of us would tell you that it was all bad. There were a LOT of good times. In fact it was mostly good times. There is always a possibility of things ending poorly, but the journey on the way to that ending isn't years of misery, lots of ups in there too. At least it was for me. If I were to get married again..which I actually think I might at this point, and things ended badly, it wouldn't make have the same attitude that you have OP. I'd dust myself off and get back out there. 

With that said though I do agree there a few posters on here that if I were their close friend I'd advise them to take a break or not return at all. Some are very triggered by infidelity, and I think in a lot of ways they seem stuck. Reliving their pain over and over again anytime a new poster comes on here that has been cheated on. They say they only want to help, but IMO it doesn't seem to be healthy for them as far as moving on is concerned. But....everyone deals with things differently.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

bobsmith said:


> Man, I guess it is just boredom that brought me to revisting this site. I guess being mostly isolated from people now makes me appreciate the crap I don't have to endure. Nearly every post has to do with cheating, scandals, lack of sex, crappy sex, kid drama, in-law drama, etc, etc, etc. What the hell is wrong with people anymore? Just stumbled into the one on the men's page where the guy decided he needed to hook up with his
> "10" and destroy his family.....so fun.....
> 
> I think I am starting to see why so many choose to escape life. The internet age has been a HUGE detriment to social society. Now "options" are just a tap away, but I guess the local watering hole is probably always full of "opportunities". I can't even point the finger at one sex, because both do the same thing.
> ...


I came here initially while researching female infidelity which was a hard subject to get real information on at the time.

I was trying to get information to help a friend who was going through it.

Lots of things have transpired since and I have worked through some personal demons with the help of posters past and present.

I'm still here because I like a lot of the folks on TAM and I care that they do well.

Kind of anonymous internet friendship going on and I've actually met a couple of TAMmers IRL and I enjoyed it.

I am very grateful for my marriage and TAM has helped me improve it as well as appreciate it even more.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Mr.Married said:


> Another man who got his feelings hurt by a woman ……. how common.
> 
> Just for the record I do love my life … and my wife. We are one and only's from high school age.
> 
> ...


I think his very point is, the definition of a better man has changed so drastically, he is having difficulty with the morality of society today. It's wholly different from the past and inherently off-putting for the traditional male role. 

Acceptance is very difficult for those who were brought up to believe in love, commitment and monogamy(though that definition has also changed). It's difficult to even understand what can and cannot be said, evidenced here in this thread. 

It's just too bad that we cannot allow ourselves to see the difficulty and offer help rather than derision. I'm not picking on you. Your post which is inherently true, if possibly a misidentification of a 'better man', struck me as being important to understanding what I was thinking.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

bobsmith said:


> Man, I guess it is just boredom that brought me to revisting this site. I guess being mostly isolated from people now makes me appreciate the crap I don't have to endure. Nearly every post has to do with cheating, scandals, lack of sex, crappy sex, kid drama, in-law drama, etc, etc, etc. What the hell is wrong with people anymore? Just stumbled into the one on the men's page where the guy decided he needed to hook up with his
> "10" and destroy his family.....so fun.....
> 
> I think I am starting to see why so many choose to escape life. The internet age has been a HUGE detriment to social society. Now "options" are just a tap away, but I guess the local watering hole is probably always full of "opportunities". I can't even point the finger at one sex, because both do the same thing.
> ...


You expect people to come here looking for support because their marriage is awesome? Why would that happen?

Some of us have been through a lot and try to help others in pain in whatever small ways we can. 

That’s what this place is. If that’s not for you, then see ya, wouldn’t want to be ya.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

@bobsmith, 
If you are looking to learn how to find another wife or even a long-term relationship there are going to be a few things very off-putting. Most men and women here have changed since their divorce. They have had to go through a period of dating a number of folks and figure out who they are today. We aren't the same as we were in the past, even the fairly recent past. 

What we need is an area to figure that out. I mean an area to figure out who we are now. Some of us will be very similar or will otherwise not be so adaptable to this brave new world. Others will embrace it with gusto. 

I think we need a space for those struggling with their new freedom. Maybe that is something you would like to look into and start for the benefit of the very many who have not transitioned into single life as easily?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

triple post. holy cow.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

double post.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> @bobsmith,
> If you are looking to learn how to find another wife or even a long-term relationship there are going to be a few things very off-putting. Most men and women here have changed since their divorce. They have had to go through a period of dating a number of folks and figure out who they are today. We aren't the same as we were in the past, even the fairly recent past.


No, I can't say I am looking for any sort of relationship. I think I am getting better at lying to them, lying with them, then sending them back into the wild. As I said, a good moral compass is not rewarded in society so if you need to survive in the wolf den, you have to act like a wolf.

I think a LOT of relationships survive on lies so its not like I am that out of line. People lie about cheating, being happy, finances, work, etc, etc. Especially lie when taking vows. They don't mean anything these days. I grew up in a model family/home so seeing the real BS that occurs was quite an eye opener.

Mr. Married is a prime example of outward showcasing. It all works great until that one foundation brick crumbles. Seen and heard it many times. People are all "he/she is so great. I am so lucky, I am so blessed, yada yada".... Then next week there is a scandal and they are circling the drain. What is typical is the woman is SOOOO happy because the man has a good job, brings her plenty of cash, doesn't make her work.... Then the day comes that he loses his job and cannot find one even close to his previous overpaid salary. She first acts like it will be OK, but once they sell her new Escalade, she starts doing some thinking.....

But this is the same for men. They work until they get in a good financial position, buy some fancy stuff, then women check him out, and he just can't pass up the temptation. Get a few hookers on the side. 

I know one friend who has an atty for a dad. Went to his batch party at a remote cabin. His dad (married) had his personal limo deliver his personal hooker to him out there. I guess I don't have room to talk anymore though.....lol


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I wouldn’t exactly say the op is a lonely messed-up person. I think if everyone was totally honest about human behavior, we would all speak a bit differently. 

I’ve noticed over the years that we are becoming a more glossed over society. Everything is wonderful and peachie. If someone describes something outside that wonderful spectrum, they are somehow a weirdo. 

To give an example, our current principal comes on the pa every morning sounding like he just won the lottery. He refers to the teachers and students as a family. However, when he’s behind the scenes, you realize he’s a real person who can recognize reality. 

One might argue that it should be that way; make everything seem great. But his production just seems overboard and a bit fake. Why can’t it just be real? If he wants to put in the positive thing with the kids, ok, but why not drop it and just be real with us adults? 

Maybe if the op wrote in more length, he could find some more in depth descriptors, but I get what he’s trying to say. If he were on an episode of Sesame Street, maybe he wouldn’t put it that way, but among adults who have experienced life, I get it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> No, I can't say I am looking for any sort of relationship. I think I am getting better at lying to them, lying with them, then sending them back into the wild. As I said, a good moral compass is not rewarded in society so if you need to survive in the wolf den, you have to act like a wolf.
> 
> I think a LOT of relationships survive on lies so its not like I am that out of line. People lie about cheating, being happy, finances, work, etc, etc. Especially lie when taking vows. They don't mean anything these days. I grew up in a model family/home so seeing the real BS that occurs was quite an eye opener.


Believe it or not, I understand. That's what I've been seeing out there. Your thread is a sort of confirmation. 


Here's a good question. Is it considered abnormal enough that if you are the 'old-fashioned' or 'romantic" type, a counselor would see you as codependent? Just occurred to me. I don't expect you to know.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

bobsmith said:


> I am not sure why the thread steered towards me. I was basically wondering how and why people still desire this "marriage/kids/spouse/etc/etc"? Statistics, threads on this site, and even one moderator, seem to indicate that this mentality is flawed IMO. Around 50% of people in at least America are married. Of that 50%, at least 50% will divorce (it will be messy, count on it), and of those that decide to walk the plank again, another 60% of those will divorce again, and again, and again.........Who usually wins in the USA? Women.... You betcha, especially if there are kids involved, unless the woman can be proven as a mental case suitable for a straight jacket, she will be given higher rank as the parent.
> 
> 
> Yet, people seek to keep doing it..... Even on this site, basically no one comes here to say "I love my life", it is usually quite the opposite. Is this like the lottery where the odds are SO stacked, yet that micro chance of happiness makes it all worth it?
> ...


I am fortunate to know many people in very good marriages. You ask why people do it? Why they keep getting married? Well for me its hope. I always have hope for the future. My husband and I are both divorced after long first marriages. We didn't let what happened make us turn against marriage at all, we didn't let it make us bitter or angry but both wanted to marry again at some point. We married 14 years ago and have a good strong marriage. 

So what that good moral standards aren't rewarded by society, that shouldn't be what guides us as we live a moral life. Its what WE do and how WE live that matters, not what society says. If I was the only one living that way I would still want to do it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

bobsmith said:


> No, I can't say I am looking for any sort of relationship. I think I am getting better at lying to them, lying with them, then sending them back into the wild. As I said, a good moral compass is not rewarded in society so if you need to survive in the wolf den, you have to act like a wolf.
> 
> I think a LOT of relationships survive on lies so its not like I am that out of line. People lie about cheating, being happy, finances, work, etc, etc. Especially lie when taking vows. They don't mean anything these days. I grew up in a model family/home so seeing the real BS that occurs was quite an eye opener.
> 
> ...


So basically you have let what happened to you make you into a worse person who uses others selfishly. You know, what is inside us comes out when we face hard times. For good or bad. I know people who have been through the most terrible things yet they are still living a good lives of integrity. The things we go through can shape us into being even better people if we let them.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Here's a good question. Is it considered abnormal enough that if you are the 'old-fashioned' or 'romantic" type, a counselor would see you as codependent? Just occurred to me. I don't expect you to know.


You make a valid point. While I certainly don't think a person should need a relationship to be happy. I can acknowledge that some of the things I want in a relationship. A therapist or a relationship book might think of as a no-no. But I can't let that change how I want to love. I think a lot of relationship advice is written to protect you should things go badly. I feel like I'd rather be all in, and if it goes badly then so be it.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

bobsmith said:


> No, I can't say I am looking for any sort of relationship. I think I am getting better at lying to them, lying with them, then sending them back into the wild. As I said, a good moral compass is not rewarded in society so if you need to survive in the wolf den, you have to act like a wolf.


This just makes me sad , I don't see how doing that would make anyone happy. I don't judge the "players" of the world, so long as they are upfront with people. But lying to people to get in their pants is just wrong.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I know you’ve already made up your own alternative facts Bob, but men come out better after divorce, not women.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/480333/


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> I know you’ve already made up your own alternative facts Bob, but men come out better after divorce, not women.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/480333/


What planet do you live on????? 

Financially, in the courtroom, in custody battles men are at a distinct disadvantage .


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> What planet do you live on?????
> 
> Financially, in the courtroom, in custody battles men are at a distinct disadvantage .


How about read the article instead of being rude to me?


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> There are divorced people here that are MUCH happier now that they are single or remarried. @notmyjamie @Diana7


Yup!! I’m not happy every minute, but who among us is? But I am significantly more happy now than I was before I left my husband. My only regret is not figuring out how to do it years ago. But, my new guy says that it was because the fates wanted to save me for him so we’d find each other I guess I can live with that. :smile2:


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I know you’ve already made up your own alternative facts Bob, but *men come out better after divorce, not women.
> *
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/480333/


I didn't really get that out of the article. I got, it sucks for everyone. Those women who choose to fight for something get 3 times what it costs them to win. Those women continuing to work through the marriage, children or not, don't find themselves making less. 

I didn't notice why men make 30% more after divorce. I may have missed that. 

I think some of the reasons are hidden. No one makes out good. Many men don't want a ready made family. Although, child support does reverse that a little, so the child can be raised by someone else.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

NVM.


You insulted posters and sound bitter, that’s why it turned to you. There are a bunch of threads and posts detailing what you are missing in life. You apparently cherry picked the oneS supporting your anger and bitterness, which is why I addressed my post to you.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I would consider myself a very happy positive person. I went through a difficult divorce and thank God it’s over and in the past. I learned from it, and I’m back to being happy and positive. 
People aren’t perfect. And it doesn’t make them bad people. You will never find a perfect person. I don’t understand why loving a person who makes mistakes is so hard for you. I suppose because their mistake makes you feel like it has something to do with who you are. But it doesn’t. That’s a lie the devil feeds us. 

People sin. Love them anyways.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I would consider myself a very happy positive person. I went through a difficult divorce and thank God it’s over and in the past. I learned from it, and I’m back to being happy and positive.
> People aren’t perfect. And it doesn’t make them bad people. You will never find a perfect person. I don’t understand why loving a person who makes mistakes is so hard for you. I suppose because their mistake makes you feel like it has something to do with who you are. But it doesn’t. That’s a lie the devil feeds us.
> 
> People sin. Love them anyways.


I don't think it's hard loving someone who has made a mistake but then again, it depends on the mistake


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

No one made you come back here, much less did they make you start a thread. There has to be something in it for you.

Are you lonely in your new lifestyle? Are you seeking approval? Are you simply lashing out because you don't like how you feel?

You need counseling, bob. Your attitude/lifestyle is not sustainable in the long term. You are going to make yourself more miserable as you go down this path.


bobsmith said:


> Man, I guess it is just boredom that brought me to revisting this site. I guess being mostly isolated from people now makes me appreciate the crap I don't have to endure. Nearly every post has to do with cheating, scandals, lack of sex, crappy sex, kid drama, in-law drama, etc, etc, etc. What the hell is wrong with people anymore? Just stumbled into the one on the men's page where the guy decided he needed to hook up with his
> "10" and destroy his family.....so fun.....
> 
> I think I am starting to see why so many choose to escape life. The internet age has been a HUGE detriment to social society. Now "options" are just a tap away, but I guess the local watering hole is probably always full of "opportunities". I can't even point the finger at one sex, because both do the same thing.
> ...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well I"m a bit unusual for this site in that I'm married happily for 25 years with no real troubles ever. I got married for a partner in life. That's also what I found. My husband doesn't go around trying to get into some young girls panties even though now that we are older and have more money he probably could attract a young replacement model. I also didn't marry my husband for money as you seem to imply so many women do. I can't argue that some don't. 

I think more women though marry for a partnership and find themselves in an unhappy relationship. That partnership is often times a way to split work and family. The man is the provider and the woman takes over the household and child duties. This creates a dependence on the provider. Most the time this is a mutual agreement that both parties want as they feel raising children is better done by the actual parents and not the babysitter or random passing adult or the world. Often times the provider enjoys have a person to care for their child, clean the house, do the cooking and many other things. It is only when things go south that it all falls apart. The man often feels ripped off because by having a support person for his children he still has to support them. Or the woman feels abandoned because she now has x number of small children to raise on her own. The man can usually go out and find another woman because he has lots of leisure time and money while the woman has children at home and a hard time paying for all the bills associated with children. Things go wrong on both ends but while it does happen very few men want full custody.

Bob you have been hurt and I can tell you think your XW only wanted your money. You maybe right but your attitude on here seems like you are just objectifying women anyway. No woman wants that kind of relationship. Or those willing to accept a objectification of themselves does that for money. Perhaps if you actually viewed women as people all with their own feelings, personalities and such you wouldn't always end up with women who only put up with that crap for money.

I will say it's good you aren't looking for a relationship because you need to work through your issues and become a better person before attempting such again. Try volunteering at the animal shelter or the soup kitchen or something like that. One you'll mentally be better prepared to face the world after volunteering on a regular basis but you'll also meet some quality people to help inspire you about people in general.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well I"m a bit unusual for this site in that I'm married happily for 25 years with no real troubles ever. I got married for a partner in life. That's also what I found. My husband doesn't go around trying to get into some young girls panties even though now that we are older and have more money he probably could attract a young replacement model. I also didn't marry my husband for money as you seem to imply so many women do. I can't argue that some don't.
> 
> I think more women though marry for a partnership and find themselves in an unhappy relationship. That partnership is often times a way to split work and family. The man is the provider and the woman takes over the household and child duties. This creates a dependence on the provider. Most the time this is a mutual agreement that both parties want as they feel raising children is better done by the actual parents and not the babysitter or random passing adult or the world. Often times the provider enjoys have a person to care for their child, clean the house, do the cooking and many other things. It is only when things go south that it all falls apart. The man often feels ripped off because by having a support person for his children he still has to support them. Or the woman feels abandoned because she now has x number of small children to raise on her own. The man can usually go out and find another woman because he has lots of leisure time and money while the woman has children at home and a hard time paying for all the bills associated with children. Things go wrong on both ends but while it does happen very few men want full custody.
> 
> ...


I really cant understand people who come out of bad relationships/marriages and then bitterly blame the WHOLE of the opposite sex for what ONE person did. Its a sure way to ensure that you don't move on or become healed enough to have another relationship. 

I have never gone after a man for money either, and the women I know haven't either.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> I don't think it's hard loving someone who has made a mistake but then again, it depends on the mistake




I agree with this. You need to have healthy boundaries and cut things loose if that’s what it calls for. 

But for me, it helped me to realize that people do whatever they want to do and it’s a reflection of who THEY are, and it has nothing to do with me. Some people make bad decisions. Everyone makes mistakes. People show you who they are and we choose to have a relationship with them or not.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I really cant understand people who come out of bad relationships/marriages and then bitterly blame the WHOLE of the opposite sex for what ONE person did. Its a sure way to ensure that you don't move on or become healed enough to have another relationship.
> 
> I have never gone after a man for money either, and the women I know haven't either.




He’s bitter. 

I would rather be ignorantly happy and hopeful and see the good in people then angry and bitter and alone.

I’ve always said if I get married and divorced again I will still want to get married again. I am a believer of love and marriage.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

No, lonely is not the word, bored is why I visited, and I mentioned that in my first post. Lonely implies seeking "somone" imo. I just find things to do. I think I mentioned here before that I get bored. Only responses were "do voluneer work" or "join a club".... I mostly stay busy fixing things for people for free. 


I did not visit to "bash women". I have my own personal views of them, and I realize there are several anomalies that exist. I am certain I would just start a verbal fist fight for sharing my irrelevant views anyway. 

What has occurred to me is all the extra time I have. I don't have to wipe child noses, take a woman to her 500 doctor appts, go to family functions, birthdays, etc, etc, etc. My god, I get stressed just thinking about it. Its funny when a friend says "oh we have 3 birthdays to get to today, and still have to get the grass mowed, what are you doing today?" I get to reply with "sleep most of the day, then maybe do a light jog with my dog"

I just don't think people today even see the bussle they try to handle on the daily, and for no real reason at all. 

Though I have realized doing everything alone can suck, the alternative is be psycho busy with "life". I usually just need someone to hold something, a tape measure, or whatever. It crosses my mind when working by myself many miles from anyone. If something happens to me, I am pretty well screwed, but I guess life is a gamble. I think old age is what might pull people together most. You break a hip, you better have someone around to wipe your azz, or plenty of cash to hire that done..... I am just praying on family history that i don't have to ride the bull that long. grandpa died at 69.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Ted Kaczynski anyone???


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

bobsmith said:


> No, lonely is not the word, bored is why I visited, and I mentioned that in my first post. Lonely implies seeking "somone" imo. I just find things to do. I think I mentioned here before that I get bored. Only responses were "do voluneer work" or "join a club".... I mostly stay busy fixing things for people for free.


You are quick to dismiss the two suggestions but fixing things for people for free isn't the same as volunteering at a place where it is really needed. You are fixing those things for people you know. I'd call them friends but you seem to dismiss that they are friends and just using you. Have you looked inward as to why you feel this way? 

Also helping animals, orphans and other people in need, truly in need. That's something entirely different that helping out someone you think is using you. But wallow if you must it won't help you or make you feel better and will make getting to 69 miserable. Sure a life of leisure always sounds good. I personally avoid the 3 birthday things and such but I still want people in my life. A counselor might call me and my husband terribly co-dependent as we don't choose to have any or too many 'real' friends. We'd never choose a girls/boys night out over spending time with each other. We don't play the game where we try to balance the whole world. But we do enjoy getting together with the other family occasionally. We do enjoy bowling once a week on a team. And in our leisure time we enjoy taking up mutual hobbies or supporting each other in individual hobbies. Spending time together and yes when needed wiping the others ass. Taking them to the doctor. To each his own but I'm happy and wouldn't trade my life for any amount of money/ younger man/ abs/ what have you. Not even for my youth back. That's why I think people get married they want what I have, to be truly happy with what you have. To know that you aren't facing the future alone. To have one person that you think is the most special person in the world and that person happens to be yours and to have someone in turn that values you. After that it really doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks cause the best person you know is on your side.

I wish that for everyone. I am acutely aware that most never find it. It's awesome though and worth trying to find.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> No, lonely is not the word, bored is why I visited, and I mentioned that in my first post. Lonely implies seeking "somone" imo. I just find things to do. I think I mentioned here before that I get bored. Only responses were "do voluneer work" or "join a club".... I mostly stay busy fixing things for people for free.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Are you happy Bob? That’s all matters. 

Relationships bring joy to peoples lives. And relationships take sacrifices. It sounds like you don’t want the negative that comes with having relationships. You can’t have the positive without the negative. So you are deciding to live a boring quiet life without the ups and downs of relationships.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Bob...you might as well go hang out in an ER and complain about sick people. I don’t understand the point of your thread. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Bob, its a giant trade off. You can go through life single, occupy your time with gaming, sports, hobbies, only forced to attend your parents holiday dinners and so forth. You can probably get a dog, have a few good friends and maybe a sex doll to take the edge off. She will never talk back or say no, but cleanup is a *****.

Or you can get a wife or live in partner these days (if she lets you get away with that!). She will probably want to pop some kids out. All that disposable income you had as a single adult vanishes...you literally get paid and 3 days later its gone! Its really strange, you think two incomes is more but it never is.

It all seems really depressing. Snotty nosed kids and a wife that no longer puts out. She may even start mounting Jimmy from work behind your back and that always costs a fortune one way or another.

But, uhm...what was I saying?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Bob, its a giant trade off. You can go through life single, occupy your time with gaming, sports, hobbies, only forced to attend your parents holiday dinners and so forth. You can probably get a dog, have a few good friends and maybe a sex doll to take the edge off. She will never talk back or say no, but cleanup is a *****.
> 
> Or you can get a wife or live in partner these days (if she lets you get away with that!). She will probably want to pop some kids out. All that disposable income you had as a single adult vanishes...you literally get paid and 3 days later its gone! Its really strange, you think two incomes is more but it never is.
> 
> ...


What is sad is that it's a lose/lose no matter what you do


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> What is sad is that it's a lose/lose no matter what you do


What is sad to me is this "dream" is sold by the select few that happen to stumble into a decent partner that they are actually attracted to. It is RARE. So rare that I am willing to bet only a few % of marriages are actually "happy". The rest would probably say "its better than being single"..... Is it? I know a LOT of women that just want "a husband"..... That is pretty pathetic if you ask me. And I also know some pretty desperate guys too. They are the ones that whistle and cat call, thinking that somehow works. It might......on a hooker, with STDs.....


So you have those people that like to upsell this "dream" and others convinced they "need one too"......

It seriously is like the lottery. About a fraction of a % of actually being "happy until death", but even people in this thread convinced their "wonderful life" will always be......lol I don't wish anyone bad fate but this site is a wonderful place where people's chit storms get painted on the wall. "I thought we had this perfect life, then I find out my partner has been cheating for years, living a double life, is a man*****, etc, etc. "

Upsidedown, the way you solve the "attachment problems" is have several on the hook. Don't hook up with any that live very close. Play them in a sequence. Never get in a situation where you have to talk about feelings, the future, life, etc. If you spend too much time with one, they will attach and want to be your "everything"....which is in the moment, and does not imply "forever"....


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You have a crappy outlook on life in general and relationships in particular.

Consider professional help. Oh, yeah - almost forgot - lol.

Meh.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> Numb26 said:
> 
> 
> > What is sad is that it's a lose/lose no matter what you do
> ...


Well, Bob, honestly I think people are too damn picky about the opposite sex meeting their criteria. No one is that much of a prize. 

I don't know about attachment problems, but I had about 2 or 3 things that I felt important and mostly to do with a partner that I could respect with good moral values and that I could have a good time with. 

Too many people have this wishlist and its like those Seinfeld episodes where they break up with someone because they ate their pizza with a fork or something. Those who view people with a microscope just need to buy 40 cats and get on with it. People overanalyze it...does she make me happy...does she have my back...is she all mine. Thats it. Thank God for what you have and don't covet another.

But if you want simple, no drama, sleeping in, staying single is where its at. Its definately not a bad thing if it makes you happy and you don't feel you are simply frittering away time.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> Mr. Married is a prime example of outward showcasing. It all works great until that one foundation brick crumbles. Seen and heard it many times. People are all "he/she is so great. I am so lucky, I am so blessed, yada yada".... Then next week there is a scandal and they are circling the drain. What is typical is the woman is SOOOO happy because the man has a good job, brings her plenty of cash, doesn't make her work.... Then the day comes that he loses his job and cannot find one even close to his previous overpaid salary. She first acts like it will be OK, but once they sell her new Escalade, she starts doing some thinking.....
> 
> But this is the same for men. They work until they get in a good financial position, buy some fancy stuff, then women check him out, and he just can't pass up the temptation. Get a few hookers on the side.


We were actually paycheck to paycheck for the first 13 years of marriage, but did however hit the jackpot once I started working overseas.

Mrs.Married worked our first five years of marriage and now is back to work now that the kids are off to college.

I've been surrounded by easy a$$ since my first day overseas …….. no temptation ….. not even close.

You can find the good and bad in anything in life. It all just depends on how you look at it. I have people that I work with from Bali that live in huts and are perfectly happy and content people. 
I then come back to the United States and hear people complain they had to wait a couple extra seconds for their internet page to load up. Perspective is everything.

And lastly …. Mrs.Married drives a BMW X5 not an Escalade.

I must be part of the female world domination slave system because I just hung Christmas lights on the house at her request.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> I am willing to bet only a few % of marriages are actually "happy". The rest would probably say "its better than being single"..... Is it? I know a LOT of women that just want "a husband"..... That is pretty pathetic if you ask me. And I also know some pretty desperate guys too.
> .


While your outlook is garbage I'm going to AGREE with you that a lot of marriages are indeed not so great....perhaps not even acceptable ...but they stay together.


I have a phrase that I like to use for this: CONVENIANT MISERY

It is very very very easy to just do nothing. Most people don't want to put in the effort or take the risk. That is why they stay in their less than good marriage.
Most people are lazy in relationships …. just like at work.


Convenient: The requirement of little or no effort.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> Believe it or not, I understand. That's what I've been seeing out there. Your thread is a sort of confirmation.
> 
> 
> Here's a good question. Is it considered abnormal enough that if you are the 'old-fashioned' or 'romantic" type, a counselor would see you as codependent? Just occurred to me. I don't expect you to know.


Definitely a counselor would see them as codependent. 

Years back I read an article by an old psychologist discussing the issue. 

What was once considered part of a normal healthy relationship has been twisted into a disorder or unhealthy dependency issue.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

red oak said:


> 2ntnuf said:
> 
> 
> > Believe it or not, I understand. That's what I've been seeing out there. Your thread is a sort of confirmation.
> ...


It's the brave new world. Where traditional relationships are viewed as abnormal


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

red oak said:


> 2ntnuf said:
> 
> 
> > Believe it or not, I understand. That's what I've been seeing out there. Your thread is a sort of confirmation.
> ...


I would say there is an unhealthy amount of non co-dependency in marriage. People ready to hop any hiccup or opportunity comes along. The modern day Walk Away Wife Syndrome is an example of this.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

@bobsmith finally finished reading it all, and I understand your point.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.

So we've gone from the extreme of women not being allowed alone in the presence of a man without a chaperon to the extreme of having sex within hours after meeting someone. In 100 years. Out of the entire history of human relations.

Of course not everyone in the past abided by those rules, but still, the standards for acceptable behavior for both sexes were very clear to everyone.

Now all that's been tossed aside and relationships are a complete mess.

And I blame women.

We have squandered our freedom and our power in order to behave more like men. 

And - relationships used to be based on values and a true need for survival, with everyone contributing and doing their part. Now it's just about finding who entertains you for the moment.



red oak said:


> Definitely a counselor would see them as codependent.
> 
> Years back I read an article by an old psychologist discussing the issue.
> 
> What was once considered part of a normal healthy relationship has been twisted into a disorder or unhealthy dependency issue.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

minimalME said:


> Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.
> 
> So we've gone from the extreme of women not being allowed alone in the presence of a man without a chaperon to the extreme of having sex hours after meeting someone. In 100 years. Out of the entire history of human relations.
> 
> ...


But but but thats '**** shaming'. Gasp.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I would say there is an unhealthy amount of non co-dependency in marriage. People ready to hop any hiccup or opportunity comes along. The modern day Walk Away Wife Syndrome is an example of this.


I'd call it the "walkaway SPOUSE syndrome". With more women being able to bring home a decent pay, walkaway husbands are becoming just as common as walkaway wives.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

It's truth. And it is whorish behavior.

As I've said on here before, I see it as a notch or two lower than prostitution. 

To me modern dating is dehumanizing. That's why I don't participate anymore.

And women thinking they can be promiscuous with no consequences is a complete denial of the differences/wants/goals between men and women.



UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> But but but thats '**** shaming'. Gasp.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

minimalME said:


> It's truth. And it is whorish behavior.
> 
> As I've said on here before, I see it as a notch or two lower than prostitution.
> 
> ...


FWIW, there are men who don't find it particularly attractive. Thats how I found my first wife... a hookup a couple hours after our first meetup. Now I find these women revolting. I hope I'm not being too harsh, but what I once thought of as acceptable behavior in women, I've now have become conditioned to find it repulsive. I think its also repulsive in men to a certain degree, but men are not women and vice versa.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

minimalME said:


> Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.
> 
> Now all that's been tossed aside and relationships are a complete mess.
> 
> ...


Very true. 
Many Men and women have suffered a menticide which promulgated the idea of commodification of each other. Really too many treat people in their life as they would some item they tire of.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

minimalME said:


> Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.
> 
> So we've gone from the extreme of women not being allowed alone in the presence of a man without a chaperon to the extreme of having sex within hours after meeting someone. In 100 years. Out of the entire history of human relations.
> 
> ...


Relationships are a complete mess?

Just because people didn't talk about them being messed up in the 50's doesn't mean they were good in the 50's.

Which 'freedoms' and 'power' have women 'squandered?' Which relationship style is valid for you? 

If one were to look at the sum total of human history, many styles and roles have been tried - from matriarchies to patriarchies to men with many wives to women with many husbands. To men as the hunters to women as the hunters. Etc. Hell, there have been sacred prostitutes that were both men and women! 

This smacks of puritanism to me - plus aspiring to the ideals of a past that were never true. 

Whatever works for you, do it. But let other people be whatever works for them.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

red oak said:


> Definitely a counselor would see them as codependent.
> 
> Years back I read an article by an old psychologist discussing the issue.
> 
> What was once considered part of a normal healthy relationship has been twisted into a disorder or unhealthy dependency issue.


I'm reading about it and discussing it in counseling. The more that is discovered, the less we know. Well, that's my uneducated opinion worth about two cents in the new plated pennies.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> It's the brave new world. Where traditional relationships are viewed as abnormal


The definitions of words like 'traditional' have come to mean oppression to women. I understand what they mean. In many relationships, it was true. When you grow up in it and it is looked upon as normal, it's tough to see. As I think back on things while in counseling, I discover more. 

However, the ideal 'traditional' relationship would allow women to choose to be at home. It would not force them. Men would not have all the power in the relationship. It would be shared. While I see how it was shared between my parents, I can see others in my family through my mind's eye because they are all gone, who showed signs of things that don't look good.

I can remember at family gatherings, my aunts and uncles separating after dinner and going to different rooms to talk. I do think they liked that. They got to talk about the things women and men talk about among themselves. If they were living in a good relationship, they would go home and discuss the things they felt needed to be shared. I don't really see anything wrong with that. I see it commonly done here. 

Though, it is done in a virtual setting like some room that is formed and those invited can discuss things. I was in one a little, but it didn't catch on for me. That's no one's fault.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I would say there is an unhealthy amount of non co-dependency in marriage. People ready to hop any hiccup or opportunity comes along. The modern day Walk Away Wife Syndrome is an example of this.


There really is no such thing as the WAWS. Many of the women I've known took time to figure out what they wanted to do. They consulted their friends. They consulted family members. They thought about it. They connected things they were told with what was going on in their marriage. Now, they might have been led astray by those interested in some selfish gratification. 

However, in the end, these women made a decision and then made a move. Sometimes, maybe many times, they will date a little and even have sex when they are comfortable with their decision to leave. Once that happens, it's pretty well over for them. They never took it lightly. 

A few will cheat on their husband's as a revenge. Those women may have some issues with self-esteem. I don't know. They may just be super pissed, too. Everyone is different. Some things are or seem similar.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

One should read the book Coercive Control. The author has a couple of chapters about the history of domestic violence and how society treated it over the centuries. More detailed of course in the 50 years. One fact that I am very impressed with (and not in a positive way) is that it was not until 1976 that the UK repealed the law that a wife had to give all of her wages to her husband. no counter responsibility from the husband at all. 

After reading that book, I was left contemplating how stressful life must have been for women until recently.

And if anyone wants to watch how savagely women were treated at the upper end of society, just watch the film The Duchess with Keira Knightly.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> One should read the book Coercive Control. The author has a couple of chapters about the history of domestic violence and how society treated it over the centuries. More detailed of course in the 50 years. One fact that I am very impressed with (and not in a positive way) is that it was not until 1976 that the UK repealed the law that a wife had to give all of her wages to her husband. no counter responsibility from the husband at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It’s on Netflix. Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> So basically you have let what happened to you make you into a worse person who uses others selfishly. You know, what is inside us comes out when we face hard times. For good or bad. I know people who have been through the most terrible things yet they are still living a good lives of integrity. The things we go through can shape us into being even better people if we let them.


When I was dumped, one of my first reactions was that I should have never put forth effort or cared since in the end it didn't matter. I can't imagine holding on to that feeling for that long though. When I was deciding to marry my wife I was a bit naive in that I assumed eventual balance or reciprocity and thought as long I was responsible, helpful, and tried to make her life easier and more fun she'd do the same for me. Affection would be returned, feelings would grow and we'd live happily ever after. I'm not as naive anymore.

At 20 I was legitimately worried that I would end up alone so I kind of overlooked how much my fiancee was treating me like a checklist and not like a real person. At 42 I now know that living alone isn't a worst case scenario. I don't have Bob's bitterness but even after being separated over a year, the thought of going on a date makes me squeamish. I *know* on average a long term relationship is better than being single. My marriage, even though it didn't end well was probably at least balanced long term.

There's nothing inherently wrong with either gender though they tend to have perspectives different from each other which causes all kinds of misunderstandings and excuses for bad behavior or attitudes.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I don't consider myself "bitter" and I don't project that attitude to others. I have just changed. Calloused is probably the right word. My dad recently almost died and I guess it was a good test to how calloused I am now. To be right honest, I realized that I was way too sensitive and I needed to become more non-reactive to survive better in this world. I think women were built strategically to open someone's feelers like an onion, then grab the lighter fluid once everything is open. 

And people probably think I am just projecting my "hurt feelings", but really, it's seriously like continuously grabbing a hot fence wire repeatedly! At some point, you smarten up. 

What I have been able to do is "get out of the game". I spent many years in the game and I can assure that staying on the sidelines gives a totally different perspective. You literally get to study all the "plays" and see what people do. You also learn how many have "secret lives", which is a LOT. 

I am certainly not advocating to "go be single", but wow, the odds just aren't good, and the down side is not good. I realize this site is a pool of "problems" but even when I look over my FB list, there is about 50% or more than have lost at the game. And they will all just saddle up and do it again, and again, and finally stick with someone when they are about 60 because they need help getting up the steps. OMG, there are a few female singles on my FB that constantly need to post how they don't need a man, they are super strong, but today I need one, single sucks, single life, blah!!!!! We get it! You are single and need to get laid!


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

bobsmith said:


> I don't consider myself "bitter" and I don't project that attitude to others. I have just changed. Calloused is probably the right word. My dad recently almost died and I guess it was a good test to how calloused I am now. To be right honest, I realized that I was way too sensitive and I needed to become more non-reactive to survive better in this world. I think women were built strategically to open someone's feelers like an onion, then grab the lighter fluid once everything is open.
> 
> And people probably think I am just projecting my "hurt feelings", but really, it's seriously like continuously grabbing a hot fence wire repeatedly! At some point, you smarten up.
> 
> ...


Ohmygosh!!! You've reverse-engineered the Inuit word for snow.

"Bitter". "Calloused". "Problems". 

All female words for "No".

Bwahahahahah!


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## Sukisue1234 (Jan 17, 2018)

Woe, I geuss I get your self defense mechanism here. I AM THIS WAY MYSELF AS A WOMAN WHO S HAD ENOUGH OF THE GAME. WHT HE SAYS IS VERY TRUE ABT PEOPLE IN GENERAL TODAY, THROW AWAY SOCIETY NO MORALS, BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS I DONT ADD TO THE IMMORAL LYING AND LYING WITH AND USE MY POINT OF VIEWS TO GET AWAY WITH USING OR HURTING OTHERS IN MY PAIN FROM MY DIVORCE. THEVTEN YEARS HES BEEN GONE TAUGHT ME THERES MORE TO ME AND LIFE INSTEAD.


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## talesofthe-twofoldmother (Dec 18, 2019)

OP, you sound troubled... or maybe it is just your new outlook on life because of all the pain you went through. 

All the bad situations I've been through in life... I still wake up every day for my children and hope for the best in people.

Call me crazy but, I still believe in good husbands who love their wife and children... and holding hands... and pure love even though i don't get to experience those everyday. 

best of luck to you and yours.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@bobsmith

Are you happy?
If so it doesn't really matter that your views might not fit into the accepted norm(especially on a marriage site which seems a weird place to want to vent them, but to each his own) of a bunch of posters here or society as a whole.
It all boils down to perspective and if you're happy with your perspective then good onya, just like @Mr.Married 's hut dwellers are happy with theirs.
I will say it has been an interesting discussion.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

We agree that this forum can be bleak.

Our crew brings in a different perspective and short and tall personalities.
We bring in leprechauns and a Red Dog, and a busty Red Queen.

We bring in levity. The leprechauns levitate people and 'stuff'.

SunCMars is our hero.
THRD owns the Avatar, but not the narrative. He is a weak mortal.

The Typist is both a wordsmith and a wax job.

We have our Lilith, she has grown considerably, from when she lost herself during that period of wanton lust.

Our Martian friends have been absent for a while. Though war is always on the horizon, their horizon.

We do post out opinions on TAM, so that management overlooks our other alphabet dalliances.

Sooner or later, the Fifth Dimension or King Hades, Mavis, or Hecate' will do us in. That is a surety. 



King Brian and The HeadMates-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

minimalME said:


> Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.
> 
> So we've gone from the extreme of women not being allowed alone in the presence of a man without a chaperon to the extreme of having sex within hours after meeting someone. In 100 years. Out of the entire history of human relations.
> 
> ...


Nice post!

Don't be too hard on women, they still carry the larger load.

In a post I made a year or two ago, I said the same thing.

The big issue with women is what?

That they are the last moral vanguard against chaos and Bohemianism?

That is not fair to lay it all on women. It is not. It is a 50/50 world.

I know, they get pregnant and they raise the babies. And the babies are the next generation to play in the sandbox.

Nobody has an eye on our collective future, as in, what is truly good for the human race.

Mankind is in a deep pickle barrel. And it keeps getting fuller and more sour.

We are tribal and we are horny fools.



THRD-


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## MLK22 (Jan 13, 2015)

"Yet, people seek to keep doing it..... Even on this site, basically no one comes here to say "I love my life", it is usually quite the opposite."

People don't usually seek out input and advice when things are going great... so um... yeah


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MLK22 said:


> "Yet, people seek to keep doing it..... Even on this site, basically no one comes here to say "I love my life", it is usually quite the opposite."
> 
> People don't usually seek out input and advice when things are going great... so um... yeah


Yep, by the time someone is on the internet searching for support for their marriage, the marriage is in trouble. TAM is a self selected group of people who are relationships are in trouble.

Then there are the people who stay here long after their relationship issues are solved, sadly often by divorce.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MLK22 said:


> "Yet, people seek to keep doing it..... Even on this site, basically no one comes here to say "I love my life", it is usually quite the opposite."
> 
> People don't usually seek out input and advice when things are going great... so um... yeah



Short, sweet, and accurate!!

Even I'm not perfect, I've come to accept. (Imagine that!! 😉😉)

I came to learn from this august group and stayed to learn more and sometimes share.

As a site that offers support for spouses going through issues, good, bad, ugly it's by beneficial necessity that good doses of reality and truth are dispensed when needed by someone needing a sanity check at the least.

Hope and sometimes harsh truths can be found here.

Which side one is drawn to is perhaps an indicator of what's being looked for or what one needs the most.


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