# So Confused and seeking opinions



## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Hello,

I've been reading posts on this site for about 7 months now. I am not married but have been with my boyfriend (now fiance) for almost 7 years, and we have lived together for alomst 6 of that, lived as if we were married. Sharing bills, buying furniture together, traveling, spending time with families, etc. 

Basically, he had an affair, he started it 7 months ago with a young coworker who was going through ending her own engagement and threw herself at him when he opened up to her about not being so happy with me. Of course he pursued her too. I made many mistakes over the years, and while i am not sure he didnt back me into a corner, i could have reacted to his immaturity differently. 

He would be passive agressive often, and also would approach me for sex all the time after we moved in together, but i would reject him most of the time because of several things: 1) he never took me out anymore, 2) he wasnt affectionate without wanting sex very often, 3) i was on birth control and had very little sex drive (i know that now bc i went off it about 2 months before his affair and my drive has SKYROCKETED), 4) i was very sick for two of the years before i was diagnosed and cured - i was always feverish, nauseous, and in pain. So in the end, he wasnt getting it very often, maybe 1-3 times a month, and started getting up earlier than me and jacking off to porn. 

He also began checking out of our realtionship emotionally but i never really took it that way because he was always so devoted in every other way, told me other women never held a candle to me. i certainly was being self-centered at times trying to figure out my own life and wasnt paying much attention to him, but when i would notice his distance and try to talk to him, he would kind of ignore it and change the subject. 

If he did little things wrong, i made the mistake of not picking my battles and would end up exploding on him, calling him names, etc, basically trying to control him and belittling him and making him feel like dirt. Turns out he has major trouble standing up for himself, is a people pleaser and passive, which he now is aware of. I know none of this excuses his affair, but in hindsight this is why it happened. 

We had been shoppiong for engagement rings, and he said the day he bought it, after going back and forth, he felt empty, and started his affair with her a week or two later. He carried on with her for three months. i found out two weeks in, thought it was an emotional affair, and begged him to forgive me and stop talking to her. During the three months, he proposed twice, and i said no, not while all this is going on, but regretted it each time bc he felt so rejected and i decided if he asked again i would put the ring on. 

I starting seeing a counselor and working on my own issues, working to learn why i acted the way i did and trying to treat him better. This made him start feeling guilty, but not enough to end the affair. Long story short, i finally caught him with her help (seems she couldnt wait for me to find out by the end bc his guilt was causing him to reject her and she was pissed), found out what was really happening, and we have been seeing a counselor. 

its been 4 months and i go between really happy, doing ok, and confused and still hurting. for the first two weeks i was devastated, didnt want him to touch me, and he basically groveled. he also put the ring on my finger the night i found out what was really going on. i took it off for a few weeks, but after his intense dedication and sorrow i put it on as a committment to our realtionship, and said we could plan something in 6 months or however long it took to feel we were in a good place, but for now needed help and to work on ourselves and our relationship. 

After that point, he kinda changed. He became more distant, and intense depression set in, where he was slighlty suicidal. he was seeing a counselor, but once his depression cleared a bit and he got a new job (where she wasnt around all the time) he stopped going, about two months ago. there was an insurance issue, but he has yet to find another counselor that does accept his insurance. our mc has told him to make it a priority, but it hasnt happened yet. 

also, he is looking at porn or pictures of girls online almost every day. i worry because i feel he is going back to what he did before his affair to cope, and dont know what to do. our sex live is much improved from before the affair, now its at least once a week but more often 2-4 times a week. but im actually not totally satisfied, especially with 1-2 times a week, and am hurt that he turns to porn so much and not me. 

but hes also struggling to find himself, saying he lost himself in always trying to please me and live up to my sometimes unreasonable demands, and needs space. so i dont get it. i know he still holds some anger towards me because weve had a fight or two since dday and he alluded to me deserving the affair, which he later took back, but i fear he is settling into complacency and we will never really heal or get to a better place, and worst case, it will all happen again. 

mostly, since the affair, i need more affection and reassurance than i am getting, but also need to give him space, and struggle almost daily with insecurity and anxiety. i worry that i am wasting my time on a man who is emotionally unavailable or just too immature to understand that we have more work to do. We love each other dearly, and just dont know what to think. 

If anyone is still reading, does any of this sound familiar, did anyone experience these things? Any advice for me? Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Welcome, nice to see you come down out of the lurker rafters and make a thread. Let me get some house keeping out of the way, then I will lend some advice. Please edit your post. Some people only view this forum on mobile devices, and it is difficult to read a giant block of text. 3-5 lines per paragraph is a good rule of thumb. Line breaks are free  and you are much more likely to get responses if your post is easy to read.

Your MC is correct, your fWH needs to get back to IC as son as possible, but for now, increase the frequency of the MC to at least twice per week. The problems in the old, dead, marriage may have been 50/50, but the affair, and the choice to have it was 100% your H. True R takes two willing participants, a dedication to the work involved, and due diligence from both sides.

To me, it sounds like you both have some major work to do in the communication and boundaries department. You must be able to clearly communicate what your needs are, and help your partner meet them. He must be able to do the same for you. 

I'm not passing judgement on his porn viewing/use, however, its obvious that you have an issue with it, so it needs to be addressed openly. Make sure he understands that you are not trying to police what he does with his personal 'alone time,' but you insist on having your physical and emotional well being taken care of first. <RL duty calls, I will finish this up in a bit>


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Just a suggestion. Break down your post into paragraphs. Makes it 10 times more readable.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Don't beat yourself up. His affair was nothing to do with your behaviour. He decided to have it. People go through bad times and manage not to end up having sex with someone else.

I would read him exactly what you have written. I don't have any answers but it sounds like the start of trying to rebuild will be communication.

Post back with an update and thanks for sharing your story. I hope it helps you feel better about yourself.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

thanks for your feedback, i literally cried reading it because this has all been so awful for me and its a relief to finally post and get replies to my story. i added line breaks as you all suggested, thanks for the tip. we have been going to mc every other week for the last month or so, and maybe we should go back to once a week instead. 

Paladin, you are so right, he had no idea what boundaries are and why they are important, and we both have alot of work to do on our communication. its a constant topic in mc. we are progressing but very slowly and its more avoidance of communication at this point vs. destructive communication which was happening in the past.

The mc had us stop talking about the affair after about 2 months in order to help him deal with his depression, but at times i feel like that only works for him. why shouldnt i b able to say how i feel about things that never felt this way before his affair?? im struggling greatly with this. i feel like it is letting him off the hook, that he never has to acknowledge what we are going through except in mc and im in so much pain from it...

about the porn, what i dont like is the daily use, the fact that i am willing and available (in the next room most of the time), i want more sexual interest from him because i feel like crap after the affair and just plain have a higher sex drive now (and he's giving it to the computer), and he is deleting it from the history, which is dishonest. 

i think he lies because i got so upset at first, and im more accepting now after talking to friends about it, but its because of what i said above that we need to talk about this stuff, not hide and lie. i know hes doing this bc he forgets to delete a link or two sometimes, and ive seen links to girls pictures on the car forum he's into. i hate that im even in the state of mind where i am checking the history. i hate the he's using his car website for that too!!! its like nothing is safe anymore, hes just getting more creative. or maybe i was just too niave and trusting before.

i admit i struggle with this...i know how guys are about porn, everyone tells me this, but its not like im not available. i try to inititate sometimes and he seems uninterested or says he tired. and i feel rejected knowing what hes doing. after the affair i am waaay more sensistive about him and other girls period, dont i have a right to ask him to stop for a while so i can feel more secure and make some progress on the healing front? 

chris, i think u might b onto something saying i should read him what i wrote, but ive also said in mc that him not going to counseling anymore concerns me...she only told him 1 week ago that he needs to really make this a priority so i guess im waiting to see what he says in the next session. 

i also get scared to be so frank bc he still gets defensive and we have gotten to the point where we can only really talk about the affair in mc bc he lacks the skills to deal with it otherwise. some insensitive comment he made last week did make me cry, and he didnt get defensive when i told him why i was upset, but he was like a deer in headlights...said sorry but almost no reaction other than he didnt mean it that way. i had to ask him to hug me, and he know what i need to feel better, ive told him a million times, hug me and tell me u love me.....i hate having to ask when i already feel like crap

this is so exhausting. sorry, i know im a but of a rambler. i really really appreciate your feedback. like i said ive been reading this site for months looking for someone in my sitiuation, but im so glad i finally posted my story, am getting my thoughts out, and can read what ya all have to say. thanks again.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> Don't beat yourself up. His affair was nothing to do with your behaviour. He decided to have it. People go through bad times and manage not to end up having sex with someone else.
> .


thanks chris hearing things like this help. my therapist keeps telling me this but i do know that affairs often happen for a reason and i know i have made my own mistakes. im just trying to acknowledge my role in pushing him away. but thank u. i know u r right


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

TtH,

His affair is his moral problem. Not yours.
Seven years together and he chose to seek A.
If there were issues, he should have discussed things with you.

Can you now reevaluate your relationship with him?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You have some tough choices ahead , no matter how much you say you love him he has shown he does not love you . He wants to be pursued by other woman and in turn is not prepared to invest in his relationship with you .

My suggestion is , and it is a hard one for you to follow; is to move out on your own , do not agree to marry him and have him date you. He would have spend a lot of effort on this OW and it is only by his consistent actions over a long period that will evidence if he is committed to you.

Only your fear of losing him will prevent you from protecting yourself. Your fiancé has shown he is prepared to cheat on you , to deprive you of love , to not fulfil your needs and unless he has an big awakening you will be in the same place in a few years from now.

One day if you choose to marry you should not feel concerned that he will wander, if you do he is the wrong guy for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> i admit i struggle with this...i know how guys are about porn, everyone tells me this, but its not like im not available.


I'll comment on this part. It's not a matter of availability. The marriage was in trouble before the affair (that is 100% his fault by the way). The issues that made your sex life insufficient are still there. The affair didn't erase them and have probably just made it worse. 



> i know hes doing this bc he forgets to delete a link or two sometimes, and ive seen links to girls pictures on the car forum he's into.


Ah! If you're going to go there then he hasn't got a chance. Literally every website dedicated to men have good looking women. A guy literally can't go to a car forum without stumbling in boobs... This really isn't an issue. The real problems are the cause of all your problems.

You guys need to solve this sexual issue. Take note that it seems this situation bothers you more than the affair. I think many people think that guys looking at porn damages marriages. I oppose that. I would say that the overwhelming majority of men look at porn (and the softcore variants of it) and still remain functional in their marriages. They just hide it better than your husband. The real problem is the lack of real sexual connection you guys are feeling (or he is feeling anyway). 

Can your husband be honest about this? Can you handle the truth about it? This is the cornerstone right there.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

His affair has allowed you to see him for the man he really is , you have need given a gift to enable you to seek a better future . If he chooses to be with you he had best change, words are cheap , his actions will speak volumes. An example is his telling your parents and his that he cheated on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

" I've been reading posts on this site for about 7 months now. I am not married but have been with my boyfriend (now fiance) for almost 7 years, and we have lived together for alomst 6 of that, lived as if we were married. Sharing bills, buying furniture together, traveling, spending time with families, etc"

I do have to ask why he has not married you , is he keeping the door open. Many men have a bucketfull of reasons not to marry a woman, often the simplest one is commitment phobia .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> You have some tough choices ahead , no matter how much you say you love him he has shown he does not love you . He wants to be pursued by other woman and in turn is not prepared to invest in his relationship with you .
> 
> My suggestion is , and it is a hard one for you to follow; is to move out on your own , do not agree to marry him and have him date you. He would have spend a lot of effort on this OW and it is only by his consistent actions over a long period that will evidence if he is committed to you.
> 
> ...


i know he loves me, but i fear it may be an immature love. he did admit that being persued by her made him feel wanted, that i had not do so for him. i see how i made him feel this way sexually, the birth control was a crazy damper on my mood. she also listened to him alot, and i was taking him for granted a great deal, not really paying attention to him, being selfish.

its funny because when i thought it was just an EA, he wanted to move out and just date me. i was against it, thinking he needed to recommitt to us. i have begun thinking that maybe me moving out is a possibility. maybe he needs to realize that he needs to do more, that he has it easy with me staying. maybe that would be the thing that makes him realizew how much work he needs to do on himself, look waht has happened to us.

ill be honest and say i do fear losing him, that i dont want to be the one to walk away without really being sure that he is not just trying to figure out his own head and taking things slower than i would like bc of this. i agreed to try to work things out and separating would be very painful for both of us. but the more times goes on with this ring on my finger, i know i cant marry him feeling so unsure.

he did give her up as soon as i found out what was really going on. no contact, and he told me about every single passing in the halls at work until he got a new job. i know we have to get to the bottom of the sex issues...i am thinking maybe a sex therapist?


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> His affair has allowed you to see him for the man he really is , you have need given a gift to enable you to seek a better future . If he chooses to be with you he had best change, words are cheap , his actions will speak volumes. An example is his telling your parents and his that he cheated on you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


his mom knows, i called her when i found out to see if she knew. she said he never told her directly but she had come to suspect it a few days before based on some things he said. i had called her early after discovering the supposed EA, and she thanked me and started checking in with him more often, and became a real support for me (my mom and I have never been close). she eventually figured out right before i did that it was more, and she pushed him to tell me. 

she supported me for a bit but once i found out he was really sleeping with her i didnt want to talk to anyone about it but my closest friends and didnt call her anymore. A few weeks ago i did call her, but i think she is avoiding me now, not sure if its because she had some of her own personal issues going on or what...im probably just being paranoid bc last i saw her she told me she loved me and all her other problems...

he also told his sister, who is a single mother who got pregnant by a man she worked with who turned out to be married. So that was a big step. he has not told his father, he has never been emotionally close with him tho. i suspect he has daddy issues based on what his mom has told me about their relationship. We also agreed in mc not to tell anyone else. 

my parents are very strict catholics who would never get over the information. if we are going to work this out sucessfully they would never accept him if they knew, so ive chosen not to tell them. i didnt want his dad to know either bc i ddint want my parents being the only ones in the dark. i also dont want everyone we know to know. does that make sense?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't want to sound like I'm giving you a knee jerk reaction by recommending moving on - but frankly a man does not do what he chose to do.

He didn't have an affair because of any uncontrollable external force. He cheated because he chose to. The girl presented herself, he had the opportunity and he chose to be with her.

He even chose to try and rearrange his life and living arrangements with you so that he could be with her.

These are not the actions of a man in love. They however are the actions of a person making selfish and dishonest choices.

The honest path for him would have been to tell you he met someone else and is breaking the engagement. But he didn't choose this path. He made a horrible selfish choice that got him both the OW and avoiding the hard task of leaving you and breaking the engagement.

And therein lies the reason why you should move on. A marriage requires you to have faith in the other persons choices, and the trust that when there is something hard and unpleasant to do - they will find the courage and drive inside them to meet the task head on a deal with it.

Real life - especially marriage and kids are filled with moments that challenge us to rise to the moment and make good choices - even one's that are hard.

He failed that test big time. And that is why you should move on. You've had a chance to see him under fire and what you discovered is he cowered. He took the easy, yet painful to others route.

So it's not the cheating per se it's the choices he made under fire.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> " I've been reading posts on this site for about 7 months now. I am not married but have been with my boyfriend (now fiance) for almost 7 years, and we have lived together for alomst 6 of that, lived as if we were married. Sharing bills, buying furniture together, traveling, spending time with families, etc"
> 
> I do have to ask why he has not married you , is he keeping the door open. Many men have a bucketfull of reasons not to marry a woman, often the simplest one is commitment phobia .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


''

this has been a topic we have talked over. he said he felt like we stagnated. and i agree. we both stopped growing in the relationship, in hindsight this is prob cuz i was not ready and may have been pushing him away when about 2 years in he was talking marraige...then the sex issues started....then he emotionally withdrew and didnt realize what was happening. 

he had told me that he wanted to be more financially secure a few times, and so i figured the wait was due to that. i sensed his unhappiness, but thought it was that he was in a job he detested. we are learning to communicated now, and i think that will keep us moving in the right direction, but i struggle to pinpoint the real issues bc of my insecurities, and he is still struggling with anger at me for all the years he felt so bad but never said anything...


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> and he is still struggling with anger at me for all the years he felt so bad but never said anything...


You seem to have completely glossed over the fact that he cheated on you... He actually managed to convince fully that the affair was your fault. You need to equate this again.

EVERY marriage has issues. And those are to be worked on. You don't solve them with an affair.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

shaggy, i hear you. he admits he was a total coward about the whole thing. he showed how deeply ashamed he was for the first few weeks, and begged for another chance, didnt want to live without me. he was buying me gifts, begging, etc.. 

he didnt really want to break it off with me, after he mentioned it acouple of times, i was over the back and forth and said "fine, i need to pack", he came running after me, it wasnt what he wanted but was such a mess that this stupid girls black and white advice, which he was stupidly taking, was confusing him. once he got into counseling he really began to see what he had done.

its just that now we dont ever acknowledge it, and i have trouble with that. people say once you agree to reconcile you cant talk about the affair anymore, you have to elave it in the past, because the real focus is the problems that lead to the affair. but god i hate that part. i dont always feel i am ready to.

after i came around and wanted affection from him, he started to withdraw and became very very depressed. this passed with the help of his counselor, who gave him "tools" as he said to deal with his depression. maybe i need to ask him what those tools are, so i understand where he is. 

he also realized he needed to get a grip and not blow all his money on gifts and focus on himself to make sure he finds himself. he never stood up to me and thgat was part of the problem - i never knew how bad id made him feel, and it ate at him over the years till his anger exploded into indifference and an affair. 

i just get stuck on how to be patient with him figuring himself out when i need immediate attention due to what he did to me. i dont want us to go broke or for him to grovel, its pathetic. but i do want something in between the groveling adn where we are now. maybe he always looked at porn, even when we were happy, but i worry so much now knowing he was waking early and stopped approaching me all together.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

costa, no way do i think the affair was my fault. that was all him being so so stupid and horrible to me. im just acknowledging my role in what lead to his unhappiness. i was too controlling, agressive and sex was lacking. he was too passive, and needed to seriously man up so i knew how he felt and could have had a chance to treat him the way i really felt about him.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> The honest path for him would have been to tell you he met someone else and is breaking the engagement. But he didn't choose this path. He made a horrible selfish choice that got him both the OW and avoiding the hard task of leaving you and breaking the engagement.
> 
> And therein lies the reason why you should move on. A marriage requires you to have faith in the other persons choices, and the trust that when there is something hard and unpleasant to do - they will find the courage and drive inside them to meet the task head on a deal with it.
> 
> ...



this is what i am struggling with the most. he has admitted all this, but with not talking about the affair anymore and him not being so attentive, i worry so much that hes slipping into complacency. the mc tells us to both focus on ourselves right now, that space is good, that men need time and women want things right away...but i feel like im so uncomfortable sometimes. i wonder if this is just the pain of recovery?


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

a big part of me wants to hear what other cheaters that truley want to reconcile think about what is going on with him. i guess im probably wanting to see how this will all end which i suppose is natural but unrealistic. im just so broken over this, but also so hopeful bc when things were good they were really good. 

these are really serious issues that i know we have to deal with if we are really going to be happy.  i just wonder at times if its possible, and wish i could get rid of my anxiety. btw i dont want to take meds, i feel like they just numb you and i feel i need to be present and clear to really deal with this in a lasting way.


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## Monroe (Jun 21, 2012)

If my now husband would have cheated on me before we were married, he never would have become my husband.

I'm afraid you could be setting yourself up for a lifetime of hurt if you stay in this relationship.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

so sadly i tried to talk to him about how i was feeling. i asked him about girls pictures on car sights and if he was jacking off to them. she said no, he was just loking at their profiles. 

i then told him how i feel he is being distant and maybe complacent, and he told me he still thinks about moving on, how maybe we would be better as friend. i said he doesnt seem to even like me anymore, and he said that i talk to much sometimes about my day, and i go on for ever about it.

the thing is, i used to do this, but ive cut that down. it now goes where there are days he doesnt ask me how i am doesnt kiss me, hug me once all day. and i want that compansionship from a relationship. if he doesnt want to give it to me than let me know because this is a painful process for me, and what is the point of me going through it if he doesnt really care anymore? 

and he then he got defensive, saying he thinks sometimes why bother? i will always be in pain, and it will never go away. i accuse him of jacking off to girls on the car site. i said i didnt accuse him, i asked him, like we are supposed to be trying to do. he is the one making assumptions. 

i told him i just want to talk about where he is in his head, that its important for me. he got so frustrated with me and said he needed a break and i told him to let me know when he is ready to talk again. our mc said a break is anywhere from 30 minutes to 24 hours so now its a waiting game.

his defensiveness makes me think he feels guilty and it still lying, at least about the porn stuff, and i just dont know what to think. i absolutely hate this and dont know how much longer i can go on like this. he cheated, and i told him he should not be so angry and unable to answer my questions. 

feedback?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

TryingToHeal said:


> so sadly i tried to talk to him about how i was feeling. i asked him about girls pictures on car sights and if he was jacking off to them. she said no, he was just loking at their profiles.
> 
> i then told him how i feel he is being distant and maybe complacent, and he told me he still thinks about moving on, how maybe we would be better as friend. i said he doesnt seem to even like me anymore, and he said that i talk to much sometimes about my day, and i go on for ever about it.
> 
> ...


I feel for you.

Personally, I would drop the porn thing for now. He will feel very threatened by it and also perhaps that you are trying to control him?

Beyond that, being the victim of both a wayward spouse and major, major trickle truth and rug sweeping I know it's hard.

For me, I had to tell *her* the truth of what she has done or did or whatever and she would then, after back pedalling, excuses and everything else would admit to things (today being the latest - 8 weeks after dday 2).

I don't believe in this 180 thing, but sounds like he needs a dose of it now...

edit: I am saying to drop the porn thing as it sounds like you have far bigger issues to sort before he will even engage with you on that one. It could undermine you by making your concerns look petty - especially if it's from a car site.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

chris989, what do you mean by 180 thing?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

TryingToHeal said:


> chris989, what do you mean by 180 thing?



It's this:
The Healing Heart: The 180

But please, handle with care! I get the feeling it can as easily destroy relationships as save them.

I am really not the best guy to give advice as I am in a total mess myself, I just want you to know that there are people here who care and want to help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think he sees you as needy, hence putting pressure on him.

You might benefit from the book "Divorce Busting". It talks about the 180. Not necessarily the 180 talked about on this forum a lot, but you behaving in exactly 180 from the way you normally behave. Being cheerful, etc. Bugging him about personal issues and doing your own thing. One of the big problems you are having is that you do not have his attention. He's still looking elsewhere and then saying he's contemplating moving on... as though that excuses him looking at women's profiles. 

Do the 180 (customized for you) and see what happens. When something changes in the environment (your behavior) he will be forced to change. You cannot control how he changes but it's pretty predictable.

Start with yourself. Get a makeover, new hairdo, some new clothing with a new look.

Start working out if you do not already. Get some work-out friends.
Stop asking him anything about how he feels about things, about anything.

Get a hobby or two can start going out. Don't tell him much about what you are doing. Let him have to come ask you... and tell him very little so he as to keep coming back to find out more about what you are doing.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

i see what ya all are saying...it makes sense considering that he says he felt like my "puppy" doing whatever i wanted for so long. and now the porn questions could be seen as controlling. but im just trying to gauge where hes at, not tell him what to do. 

i do think the 180 thing seems contrived, but also makes sense. but how do i deal with not having th companionship from him that i want in a relationship? if i go and do everything on my own basically ignoring him, how does that solve anything? 

and even it worked to regain his interest, wont he just go back to being that way if i try ot get closer again? i guess ive never been good at the independent thing once im in love...because i want to share with them! uggggg

thanks again...this gives me something to think about and concentrate on while hes taking his "break"...


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

so he later said that he was pissed off by the way i approached him, said i could "drop the lawyer act". basically that it made him feel like he was always wrong, and hes not cheating or lying, just thinking of himself first for the first time in years and doesnt want to be interrogated about it. he said that for years its was 95% about me and 5% about him, and now he wants it to be 95% about him. 

i said "didnt it feel bad when u felt i had no interest in you? i had no idea you felt so bad. you never said anything. you acted like everything was fine, and i tried to bring up the fact that you never shared you opinion, and you still wouldnt say anything. we could have saved years of hurt if you'd let me know. i dont want to pay for this for years just to end up feeling as bad as you did. that seems like the wrong way to handle this."

i told him that i was just trying to see where he is since he never tells me how hes feeling. he is so distant, always on the computer (which he says is a safe place for him because it cant tell him hes wrong) and i just need to touch base so i know that he feels he needs space and thats whats up.

i told him we have to learn to talk about things. i had questions, and maybe i need to learn to ask things differently, im sorry i made him feel like he was doing everything wrong. but if he feels that way, just tell me so i can learn how he wants to be approached. getting mad doesnt help us move forward.

he was just so pissy and defensive. i get so sick of putting up with it bc i feel like he got me back (and then some!) by cheating on me, now lets wipe the slate clean and treat each other well. he says he just wants to be selfish now and mostly only think of himself. 

is this normal behavior for our situation? i feel so bad sometimes and i know i need to fill my time with other things, but will he ever come back to me if this is how he feels? or will we just grow so far apart and we are wasting time now? his responses seems so so immature to me, but then another side of me thinks it is a natural reaction after stuffing his feelings for so long...

how long does phase this last????


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

also, chris and elle i think u all are on the right track. elle, ima get that book tomorrow!

i need to stop asking him about the porn crap. and starting thinking about making myself happy for now. do i just ignore all the bad feelings i have for now? try not to think about it? i feels its to early to make a decision to leave, i dont want to make such a big move without being sure. i just am not dealing with this well! 

this is why i think he needs to go back to therapy tho, bc his reactions are angry and immature...and i dont want to live like this for the rest of my life w him (if we make it there). is there a way to bring this up in mc without making his so defensive??

thanks again for all your comments. you all are awesome.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

His viewpoint about how a relationship is supposed to be structured is beyond broken. So let me get this straight. He was so afraid of confrontation that for years he never told you that he felt your needs were always put ahead of his, 95 you 5 him as he put it. Because he never told you how he felt, he just began to get resentful, and eventually had an affair. You decided, out of compassion and love to give him another chance, something that very few people actually get in this life when it comes to infidelity. Instead of seeing the virtue of the gift you bestowed upon him, he feels entitled now. He now wants your relationship to be 95 him and 5 you. Has the thought that a healthy relationship is 50/50 ever occurred to him? 

A computer cant tell him he is wrong? Really? Maybe you wouldnt have to tell him he was wrong, if he stopped being wrong all the time. It is very simple, he gets his ass back into IC, as in NOW, not three weeks from now, but tomorrow, or at least by the end of the week. If he has time to squander on the computer looking at "profiles" and "not jerking off" to them, he has time to go to a session.

We are social creatures, we require companionship, and we seek primary companionship from our mates. It is a very fulfilling part of a relationship, and one that is currently being withheld from you for childish reasons.

Look, I'm sorry you are in this mess, I know you love him, but he is no where near out of the fog yet. He still thinks he is entitled to "reclaim" his life, without addressing the damage he did by cheating on you. You are not a mind reader. You werent a mind reader then, and you arent going to be one now. If he cant communicate like an adult, what is the point of trying to talk to him at all?

I know you think the 180 is contrived, but the general point of it is very simple. Start _really_ figuring out what makes you happy. Do new things, meet new people, have fun. If he wants to join you, fine. If he continues to "look at profiles" and sulk like a 5 year old, let him. You will find another man who will love you like an adult, without all the drama and baggage that this relationship still has to resolve. 

I nearly flipped out when i read the line you posted, the one where he says he "still thinks about moving on," and "maybe you would be better off as friends." Holy crap, what an entitled a-hole.

Please take care of yourself, dont put up with his crap, dont take the blame for his affair, it was not your fault. There were plenty of other ways to address his issues without going outside of your marriage. He acted like a selfish prick, and continues to act that way now. You can do better than him, if he cant get his sht together, and fast, drop him. You can always get back together later, if you still want to. A big part of me thinks that when you dump him, get your feet wet out there, you wont ever look back.

-P


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

It sounds to me like he doesn't really want to be with u. Just as Paladin said, that bit shocked me too. He cheated on u, spent years feeling 'hard done to' by u, never told u, never let u know, and then had an affair. And now his reactions are as if u r the one who cheated!

His anger and defensiveness suggest he has stuff hidden...that is why he won't talk. What best way to get u to shut up. And there is absolutely nothing wring with wanting to talk about it. DO NOT FEEL THAT IS WRONG! What is wrong is not talking about it when u need to. What is wrong is jibing him about it, throwing it in his face all the time. Wanting to talk is not. It is how relationships are rebuilt after such shattering occurrences. If he doesn't want to talk, I think it is because he is hiding stuff. Either stuff he is up to or stuff he is feeling.

And as for looking at women's profiles! What kind of behaviour is that?! That is not what u do when u r in a relationship. How would he feel if u were looking at men's profiles? Maybe u could do shifts on the computer, ask him for your time on it too so u can look at naked men, muscly men, and their profiles. 

I think the intensity with which he uses porn is very suspect too. It sounds like he has totally checked out. I don't know why he would do all that begging u back and once he succeeds just revert back to type...or worse. It sounds like he regrets begging u back...he does nothing to relieve your suffering, he gets angry and defensive at u, he says utterly hurtful things (1. if u were so awful to live with, why did he not pipe up and why did he stay with u? That is not your fault. That is HIS problem. He is just excusing his behaviour with that crap and don't u forget it. IMPORTANT: He is attacking u in order to defend himself. Attacking u so that all the problems are yours and none his. Get away from this man while u can. People like this spew vile crap and mess with your head. They cause utter depths of depression. Nothing is their fault...or rarely at least. And if they admit fault they soon backtrack again. 2. He cheated, begged u back, and now treats u like u r nothing and worthless. And says he is not sure he wants to be with u etc. Time for u to check out!)...back to the porn...it is wrong for him to use that so much and be totally cold to u. It isn't a positive thing in your lives in any way shape or form. Are u sure he is watching porn? 

I would definitely think about the 180, more as a way out rather than to win him round. 

I would also question (not him) his computer use. I would suggest a high possibility of him either still in touch with OW, or another OW, or internet dating, or possibly most likely, internet chatting. Or sex masturbation chat sites. Does he have web cam? I would seriously consider getting a key logger on that computer. 

Finally, I think u are on a hiding to nothing with this man. He cheated on u instead of discussing his issues with u, he refuses to talk with u, he blames it all on u, and he doesn't give 2 hoots about what u r going through. It is plain to see that his regret lasted only while he thought he may lose you. He doesn't truly care. And so he will do it again. Like u said, him, his feelings, are immature. He will remain a boy and will treat u like this while ever u have issues. This is what u have to look forward to for your future. 

My opinion of course. Borne from experience...my man is defensive and angry. He cheated. I am now distancing myself as a year down the line I have no fight left in me. I had to fight for every discussion, which could have been solved by a simple quick, but uncomfortable, chat. My ex, the one before my current man who cheated, is a skilled manipulator who managed to blame me for every issue I ever had with the relationship. I left him after 11 yrs, his actions, yet I still got blame. And he has manipulated our 2 kids too. Great!

Edit: sorry this sounds like a rant. I suppose it is a bit, but it angers me hearing someone being treated so shoddily and accepting almost full blame. U accept your failings. Does he? Truly? I have experience of what it sounds like u r going thru and I feel exactly where u r coming from. I have had all those feelings that u talk about, and once distanced from them the realisation sets in. You really don't need him, u can't change him, u can't save him. U will only set yourself up for misery. U can only change yourself.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Oh...and 'better off as friends' THAT IS A 'I DON'T WANT TO BE WITH YOU ANY LONGER' if ever I saw one. Sorry about the capital letters, wanted to make it bold. He probably wants you to break it off because he cannot. That is what those words and the other hurtful things are designed for. He is a coward.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

It is interesting because he has turned around since that fight last week. He actually spent the entire next evening talking to me, not online even for one minute, mostly asking what i had going on and also telling me about his day, etc. the rest of the week was much better as well. we were able to spend time together but doing our own things, me reading, him online. we even had a date nite on thursday. i think he really felt attacked when i asked him about the porn, and my reiterating that i am just trying to check in with him and then simply walking away may have helped him turn his attitude around. 

we talked about the fight in therapy on friday. i told her about his porn habits and my concerns about it. i told her about his wanting me to "drop the lawyer act", and also told her about his saying he is unsure about being together. she encouraged us to talk in front of her, and so we did. 

it seems when he is distant it is because he is uncomfortable telling me he just wants time to himself - i keep telling him to just tell me and itll be ok, and i think he is scared bc i used to get upset with him for this. i didnt understand that he could not always be all about me whenever i wanted him to. i think you all misunderstand me a bit, i dont think the affair was my fault, but i do know i contributed to his being unhappy before the affair, and if i dont correct that, i am not good for him either. since i cant change him, i tend to focus on what i need to change, and not just for him, but for any relationship i will have. but i get very upset when i dont understand him, and need support and help figuring the situation out.

while he absolutely should have spoken up more, i could see how my over agression would have smashed his passive self in some feeble attempts he may have made to start the conversation. two things have to change for us to be happy for sure: i need to make it safe for him to communicate with me, which means learning to communicate assertivly intead of agressivly. he needs to learn to be assertive instead of passive.

he says he feels unsure about our future, like some days he wants to get married and others he is unsure. he worries that we are doing it bc we have been together so long, and it seems like what we should be doing, according to our parents, both couples who have been together their whole lives. sounds like a but of overkill on cold feet to me, but time will tell this too...

the therapist says it sounds like i know all the questions i want to ask him, but has he thought about whether he has questions for me? specifically, i am concerned with his level of committment. seems to me she suspects he has his own anxieties about me, but doesnt have the balls to actually air them. his homework is to come up with a few. we are also both charged with coming up with relationship goals.

i think right now he needs to man up. he has been passive for so long, and for much of his life before me, that i think he is on a huge learning curve. and when he doesnt feel strong enough to just be direct about what he wants, he just keeps quiet and pretends it is all fine. i never realized all this about him until the affair made it glaringly obvious. its totally his own issue that i cant help him with.

im committed to being patient with him for now. i worry that what u all say might be true, that he doesnt want to be with me anymore, and if that is what happens, i suppose i will know soon enough. i do feel like we took a small step forward, that maybe the last fight we had has opened up new conversations, and so i guess we will see what happens at the next therapy session. i am really curious to know what he wants to know from me, he reacted to this suggestion from her with quite a bit of energy, which when it has happened in sessions past has turned out to be something he gets into and helps us move forward...

there is a good possibility that this is all just a manifestation of his insecurities. i do realize that i dont deserve the way he treats me at times, and when he was a bit rude to me earlier about my not knowing how to work a remote, i firmly told him, with a good bit of "i will not be talked to like this" in my voice that he could simply show me and that would help. i think he got the picture and changed his tone quick.

i feel the ideas in the 180 are things that i need to do for myself anyway, not necessarily cutting off communication with him, but the focusing on my own life stuff. my self-esteem is preety low these days, and i need to build that up. i really need to put myself first for a while so that if this doesnt work out im ok on my own and dont fall apart.

thanks again for all feedback. its good to hear all kinds of perspectives. i still wonder what other cheaters would think about his behavior as the therapist seems to think this is growing pains...

for now i am hoping we continue on this path weve been on the last week and expand on it...we need to be gorwing more together than apart for this to work and im getting sick of him going back and forth, as evidenced by my posting on this forum.


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## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

btw Remains, Paladin, all you all that have written, its nice to have someone get upset with the way he treats me. i only have one friend i can confide in about this anymore, cuz it feels like too much airing of dirty laundry to talk about this with everyone else. so posting on this forum kind of feels like a support group for me, and i appreciate your writing me!!


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