# Epic post...need help and advice



## MC5 (Sep 4, 2009)

First off, I would like to express my gratitude to anyone who reads all this and offers any kind of opinion or advice. Right now I’m finding it hard to focus and do not really know where to begin, so I’ll start from the beginning. I will, however, be vague about certain details to protect family privacy the best that I can. Sorry for the length, but I don’t want to skip anything important. Also, I want to take my lumps, too, instead of just trying to bash my wife. I don’t think that’s fair.

My wife and I were married 12 years ago as of last month. I think we had a good relationship at first, even with the ups and downs that are present in any relationship. We married as soon as she finished her school – she was 25 at the time. Then the plan was for me to start working less and to concentrate on getting my degree. That lasted for a semester or two until we decided that we needed to buy a house rather than rent an apartment. 

We lived in our place for many years. Her job required her to work odd hours sometimes and that could be stressful, especially when the kids started coming. I worked a day job in an office, so my schedule was stable. The kids started coming along and things became more stressful over time. Because of my wife’s schedule, many days it was my job to get the kids up and to daycare, and then rush myself to work, get my work done, and then rush back to daycare and get the kids before closing. On top of it I was taking classes at night for many years. I will admit that I would get grumpy at times and probably wasn’t fun to be around. To be fair, my wife could be moody on a fairly regular basis also. I guess this might be a good time to mention her job changes over the years, too. There were several. 

Over the years a few major issues began to surface. She wanted to move. She wanted a bigger place and preferably in a warmer climate. I admit that I have known all along that it was her dream to move somewhere warm one day. I had a few sticking points. If I was to consider it, it would have to be really worth it. I’d want a marked improvement in the quality of my life. Also, I was working hard in school and didn’t want to lose credits transferring to another college in another state. My pursuit of a degree was never just for me, it was for all of us – something I felt I had to finish to set an example for the kids and for my wife. Her father (R.I.P) wanted me to finish because he regretted not finishing and it caused him problems toward the end of his career. It was devastating to him. 

The other sticking point was my lack of career goals despite my fixation with my academics. I worked hard and achieved excellent grades. I’ve just never been interested in spending extra hours in an office trying to achieve career milestones and big paychecks. Instead, I wanted to spend more time with my family and friends, try to give my kids a more loving and nurturing environment than I grew up in, and pursuing self-development goals – I love learning and want to read everything and explore the deeper meanings of the human experience. Before I sound too boring I have several hobbies and I love to go out to see bands play and have a couple of beers with my friends. Life is just too short and wonderful (at times) to waste it in pursuit of material excess. But believe me, I went to work everyday and was well liked by my bosses. I just wasn’t fulfilled doing what I was doing, but, hey, I have a family to support. 

Another problem with leaving was the fact that I lived in the same area for my entire life. All my friends and family were there, all my connections, my entire life. My friendships are extremely important to me and recently my wife told me that she never felt as important as my friends. I am truly sorry that I made her feel that way. Truthfully, after the kids started coming, I saw them less and less. Still, I was ecstatic during the times that we did manage to get together and hang out. There are just things you do with friends and things you get from them that you don’t necessarily get from a spouse. I sure didn’t expect to be her everything. 

Now let’s talk about last August. That’s when the first major talk between my wife and I happened. She said she was unhappy and just realized that she was for years. Some of the above issues came up, but I believe the major one was with the move. She actually thought about leaving me. I was blown away. Somehow we managed to reconcile and move forward. I said we’d move for one thing, despite not knowing we we’d get the money. Due to certain things that had happed in the last year, we were cash strapped. 

We also discussed our communication problems. I feel like whenever I’d bring up an issue, she’d take it as a personal attack and get her feelings hurt, so I stopped hurting her feelings and instead kept things to myself. She wanted me to connect with her more, which I understand. I told her that she needed to be more physical with me – not just sex. I feel like she rarely touched me or hugged me and that’s the kind of closeness that I needed to open up. I think we worked on it a little, but were making slow progress. 

Finally toward the end of last year she found a house close by that she really wanted and was happy with her job. I was stressed about money – I had no idea how we’d make it work, but in her mind I was just negative. Maybe I am. I was desperate to make her happy and get her in this house and told her I’d liquidate my 401Ks if I had to. I knew the seriousness of this. To be fair to her, she has told me over the years that she felt “smothered” in our townhome community. 

Within 2 weeks, we found out that her office was closing and that we’d lost the contract on the house. She was devastated, but I could see the wheels turning in her head. She was starting to look south for a job. Things started getting really stressful again. We kept our house on the market while she looked for work. At this point I started pushing counseling because I knew we needed help. She didn’t want to go. Especially since the one I found didn’t accept insurance. We didn’t have that kind of money. Well, she was offered a job down south and we got a contract for a quick sale on our place and then things were set in motion. We were going and I had no choice realistically. She also came how shortly thereafter with a purebred puppy. 

I was a total mess during the lead up to our move. I was stressed beyond belief. I was already being treated for high blood pressure and it started getting worse. I also finally caved and got put on medication to ease my anxiety. I could barely function. Here I had to leave a job that I actually didn’t mind and could deal with – I never complained about it. Furthermore, I was fearfully as to what would happen if we got down south and things didn’t work out. Deals were made/reassurances given during several heart to heart talks. I felt like this was my last shot to save my marriage and keep the family together. She talked like she’d just go with the kids and leave me if I didn’t want to go. What could I do? I gave it a shot. 

Now I’ve been here for 6 months and the marriage is settling back to its old ways. Things haven’t been terrible, but there is still something not right. Recently, my wife started telling me about a male coworker of hers that she’d like me to meet. One day we went over to his place to eat and swim. Truthfully, once I saw him and spoke to him I didn’t feel like he was much of a threat to my relationship with my wife. Plus, I’ve never had a problem with my wife having male friends before.

Then I started to get the feeling that my wife was on her phone too much with this guy. For two weeks running, she took two of our kids over to his place to swim on the nights that my one child and I have a thing that we do. The first night she got home after 11pm because of a show they were watching and the next week around 10:30. Too late for someone who works early in the morning – not to mention that my kids have to get up early for school. 

Then her birthday approaches. The day before her birthday she had to work overtime and wanted her coworkers to take her out afterward. That’s fine by me. She deserved to have some fun. She works hard at her job. I received a text from her around 4pm saying she was getting ready to leave to go to dinner. Later in the evening, the kids and I went to the store to get her flowers, a balloon, and things for her birthday breakfast. When we got back she still wasn’t home. The next text I get is at almost midnight and it essentially said that she had dinner and just watched a movie at the guy’s house and was going to watch another one. Then she was going to crash on the couch and he’d bring her back in the morning. Then I couldn’t sleep. She never stays up that late!

The next day was her birthday, so I tried to act like nothing was wrong. The following day is when I asked her what was going on. She told me that she still isn’t happy and that I don’t know how to connect with her. She told me the guy was a very important friend to her right now – that it’s strictly platonic at this point. When pressed she said that she may be developing feelings for him, but absolutely nothing physical has happened between them. I want to believe her. She expressed just how lonely she is. Once again I pleaded that we go to counseling, but she still refuses to go. She says she’s tried long enough to make things work. Personally, I feel like she has been trying to make things work by just changing my behavior and not her own. I don’t know if that’s accurate, but that’s how I feel. 

She wants to end our marriage and we have three beautiful kids caught up in this. I dearly love them and it breaks my heart to think of them hurting. I’ll get over this – I hope that they get through things alright. My wife even said that I could take all three kids back up north if they wanted to go with me. Frankly I’m surprised that she’d allow this considering how much she wanted them. I don’t know what to think anymore. Things are tough and it’s hard to live in this house with her right now. She's already looking at apartments and looking to sell our new house. That’s all I’ve got for now.


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## amberlynn (May 24, 2009)

Okay, the thing that really gets me is 
1) she should really go talk to someone with you, she needs help. 

2) shes having an emotional affair, shes gonna deny it im sure, but thats whats going on

3) Shes putting another man before her Husband and her Kids, again, repeat number 1.. she needs help! 

Its kinda hard for me to believe that she stayed over night at another man's house and nothing happened... that's a load of crap, if she says shes unhappy in her marriage, then shes gonna look for the happiness else where... Im sorry you and your kids are going through this, maybe it would be better to sort through things if you both separated for a little while, just to figure things out. She should have more respect for you and your kids, this is just wrong.


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## MC5 (Sep 4, 2009)

This morning we talked. I felt like I had to. Last night she went out to "window shop and get her nails done." Of course she admitted to me that she went shopping with OM. It hurts me, but she feels like it's OK for her to do this. It's over between us and he's just a friend. 

Today I told her that I still love her and was sorry for all my failings as a husband. She said that she has felt like she has had to support (e.g., take care of bills, doctor's appointments, figuring out daycare, etc.) so much over the years that she's done. I see her point. As for me, I always cleaned the house, did the dishes, cleaned up after pets, was always there to watch kids, just like she was. Besides school, I engaged in something twice a week (it counted as a form of exercise) that was very important to me. I understand that she felt lonely, just as I did because she was either at work or sleeping after working odd hours. 

Any, our talk this morning. She had a real estate agent come over to the house yesterday to talk about selling it. I told my wife that I wouldn't sign any papers until she gave me one session of counseling and the paper work for the divorce/separation got started. I'm not putting my house on the market until the legal process starts -- I want to be protected. We talked more about other things and she in no way wants to reconcile with me -- and she doesn't want me to fight for her. What a blow.

I also spoke to her mother last night after finally finding out that my wife had spoken to her first. It was good to talk to her. I didn't call to bash our daughter, but did fill in a few more details that my wife failed to inform her of. My MIL isn't taking sides and I don't want her to. I just wanted her to know that I tried, was still trying, and that I wasn't going to trash her daughter to her or her grandchildren. 

Right now I am heartbroken. I find it hard to eat and I feel dehydrated all the time. It's a post-flu feeling. I know things will start to get better one day, but for now I'm still a mess. 

Thanks for your replies. I'm all alone down here and it means a lot to me that someone has taken the time to respond to this.


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## MC5 (Sep 4, 2009)

She does not deny the emotional affair. She stayed out past 11 pm on Friday night. The next day I told her that I didn't need her to lie to me about what she's doing. Last night she ran out again for a couple of hours. I hit redial on the phone and guess who's number came up? Yeah, his. And here the kids are upset about everything that's going on and she's out doing this to her family. It's just not right in my opinion. Friendship or affair. Not right.

Friday night was hard for me. She looked nice when she went out. When she finally got back she definitely had gotten a pedicure. It has been a year since she has had one and now she makes her feet pretty for OM. I feel like a jerk. 

I will say that she has been a very good partner over the years, despite our communication problems, and I just can't believe how she's been acting right now. It seems uncharacteristic. I know she has been faithful to me for the duration of our relationship. She's had offers from better looking and more successful men, yet she chose to stay with me and that's awesome. At least until now. She still says that it hasn't gotten physical with OM and I want to believe her. Like I said, I don't think OM is very attractive and I find his personality a little weird -- weird in a bad way. I like people who are kind of weird in a good way! 

Maybe she is and I just don't want to accept that kind of blow to my self-esteem. It has been big enough already. Perhaps I'm being too superficial myself. Still, I am fairly attractive and in shape, even by her own admission I'm a wonderful father, and I'm desperate to find a way to work it out and make us all happy. What more can someone as for? Sometimes I think she's looking for something that she'll never find. A few people close to us have said something to that effect to me recently. Maybe I should just be surprised I lasted as long as I did. 

As for me, I sincerely want to know about my short comings so I can address them in the future. I feel like she should give counseling a chance because sometimes you need outside help in order to make necessary changes. Maybe I wasn't able to make those changes that would make her happy on my own. She needs to make some, too.


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

Well...I feel so sorry for you. Been there..done that. No one is perfect....not you not me...not her.

The one thing that stuck out is you didn't want to be her everything. That is the one mistake you might have made. But...by the sound of it....it would't have mattered. She made this choice...and because she has put the kids in a lower spot than her "friend" it makes her look really terrible.

There isn't an excuse for what she is doing. she should have just left and let it be. or she really should have been mature and done counseling. My stbx did me the same way. Refused counseling...said he knew what ws wrong and how to fix it...(code words for...I don't give a damn.) I didn't see that until I found out about the other woman. A real piece of work too. she isn't anything like me and no one...NO ONE can believe he left me to be with her. but he did. More and more comes out daily...but the spouse is always the last to know.

I know it won't mean much....but it will get better. I promise you. Stop beating yourself up...stop asking for a flogging...you won't get one. You seem like a nice enough guy and you deserve better. That is all....except....I felt like my hubby lost his mind....really. maybe she has lost hers.

Take care.


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## Magnolia (Sep 6, 2009)

Always, always, always ALWAYS if there are TWO people in a failing relationship, BOTH of them have contributed to the failing. It might be 80/20; 10/90; or even 70/30. But both people have SOME responsibility. Every. Single. Time.

Now. Having said that. Here are some things that jumped out at me as I read your epic post:

*Observation 1*

You value relationships and pondering the deeper things in life rather than pursuing money and material possessions. 

*Answer (from a woman's perspective ONLY)*

Women (generally speaking) need to feel protected by their husbands. That protection includes financial security. I do not know if it is cultural and societal training or if it's Darwinian in some way. But, it's true. 

If you've demonstrated or communicated to your wife that you would rather "hang with the family" instead of making a good living, she could have felt threatened and that she had to take up the slack by working more. That will build resentment in most women's hearts.

We see a lack of willingness to work and earn money as a flaw in men. 

*Observation 2*

You expressed being very stressed and a "total mess" before one of your moves.

Answer

Again, your lack of ability to handle and cope with the stress may have made her feel threatened. She may be looking to you for strength and leadership. If you are letting your stress get the better of you and she feels she has to take the lead, she will resent you for it. Trust me. I REALLY know what I'm talking about here.

Women REALLY want men to be strong and lead. If you fall apart under pressure it sends signals you can't be counted on. That creates HUGE stress for us. Which could be why she leaned on her co-worker. He was strong and that's what she needed. 

I'm going to confess, I didn't read your post word for word. it was too overwhelming for me. But, these were the impressions that seemed to jump out at me the most.

Bottom Line:

Women want strong men they can look up to and count on. 




My


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## MC5 (Sep 4, 2009)

DeniseK and Magnolia, 

I thank you both for your insights. It does give me a lot to think about. About my job. I worked for a well-known financial company and did OK. My most recent promotion actually had been a good move for me and I didn't dread going to work. I worked over-time when I could to make extra for the family. I just never cared to be one of those people that worked 60+ hours a week. I'd rather spend the time with the wife and family. Believe me, I wasn't a slacker. 

That being said, she did make more than me. Also in my defense, I was often the one who had to drop the kids off in the morning and rush out of work in the evening to pick them up before daycare closed. It isn't easy to impress your superiors when you have to stick to that kind of schedule. 

Another thing, she's a very headstrong woman and that's mostly a very good quality. I feel that much of the time she wanted to take the lead...or else my decisions did not occur quickly enough for her liking. She can be very impulsive sometimes.

One of the biggest stresses on my mind before the move was I knew that our marriage was in trouble and she was refusing counseling. She had really not given me much choice about going. She told that she was going with the kids and I could come down when I was ready. Everything happened so quickly that I didn't know what to do. She had expressed over the years that a move south was her dream. Personally, it was always in the back of my mind that she needed the next thing.

As far as being her "everything" I'll try to clarify. I have a few good friends with whom I share different things with. I greatly value each of these unique friendships. As much as I want to share everything with my wife, somethings she's just not going to care about or be into. She has her own friends that together they share certain interests that I'm not that keen on. That's fine by me. Perhaps the way I worded it was wrong, although it does give me something to think about. 

I feel like I could learn some of this through counseling and find the tools through it to give her what she needs -- and she to me. I just don't think it's right to just give up without at least trying it. I feel like we'd both "get it" better if we had professional help. 

Thanks again.


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## MC5 (Sep 4, 2009)

I'd also like to add that one of the other reasons that I was such a mess during that time was that this move required me to quit a decent job in these horrible economic times. My industry wasn't and still isn't in good shape right now. I worried about what would happen if her job didn't work out and I was out of work. Three children can be quite expensive. Still, point taken on leadership and strength. 

To be fair, what should men expect from women? Not trying to be antagonistic here. Just curious.


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

Depends on the woman. 

I have found that even men can be so confusing that it freaks me out.

Um.....you cant lump women into a catagory. We are similar but very different. But from my side of things....I want honesty....love kindness...I want him to be my whole life and I want to be his. (not that you have to lose yourself but your spouse is your other half) You grow together, begin to entertwine your likes and dislikes. I want a best friend who Is more than a friend. I want someone who will be there to help me,support me and who will accept those things in return from me. Job and career are not that important...but suporting the family is. Still....today will get things we don't need and think we can't live without. We live in a fast paced world where we have more than we need but never enough. The real needs get ignored and go unmet.....love affection...intimacy. Instead we need that big screen tv or a trip to the beach. (not that those things arent nice) 

Ok...I rambled a bit...but that is one woman's thoughts...others will disagree with me...but no one has the right to tell me I am wrong....I am unique. I have a right to that.

Remember....women are similar....but not all exactly alike.


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## MC5 (Sep 4, 2009)

It sounds like we're on the same page. Too bad my wife and I weren't. After talking with many people, including her side of the family, everyone seems to feel the problem is with her. Everyone seems to think she's just been unhappy forever and has looked for fixes that don't work for long. 

I sincerely hope she finds what she's looking for one of these days, but I fear she's putting herself further and further off track. Right now she seems to think that she has figured out things and is on the right track. Maybe she is and I don't want to see it. 

I feel as though I've done nothing so major as to deserve this. Still, my wife has to want to be with me. That's really the only deciding factor. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong. I'm sure one day someone will love me for who I am. Believe me, I am a unique individual and I'm willing to put as much into a relationship as my partner. I'm just not willing to pull its weight alone. Oddly, I think both my wife and I feel like we were pulling it alone. I wish we could both figure that out.


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

Still.....if you have a spouse willing to work on things...there is no excuse to leave.

These women really tick me off. My husband refused to do any work on himself or on us......flat refused. It was all me...I was too emotional....la di da.

I don't know your situation....so I can't say...but nothing jumps out that screams you deserve this.

Oh and I disagree with magnolia on one point. It is not always...always both parties. There are instances where one person is totally to blame and the other is completely innocent. Not that it happens often...but never say never and never use the word always...it's a mathmatical term..not a life term. 1 plus 1 is always 2 but I have known instances where one person was so mean and abusive and cruel...and the other so kind and giving. that person has no blame in the problem.....no blame what so ever. It might not be often...maybe five percent of the time...or maybe one percent....but it's an opinion not a fact. And every one has a right to their opinion. No hard feelings on that.

If you did all you could to reconcile...then you don't hold very much fault in this. Maybe you made mistakes...but everyone makes mistakes sometime or another...that doesn't make it your fault that she wouldn't work on things. She had a choice...she made it. It was a bad choice in my opinion.


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## MC5 (Sep 4, 2009)

That's what makes me nuts. She just voiced her unhappiness last August. It was then that she told me that she has been unhappy for a very long time. So here I'm on the hook for years of unhappiness that she didn't realize until she was going through until she had an epiphany last year. 

Then this past year has been in such a state of flux, it was not conducive to us healing our marriage. She was more concerned with moving and then getting a new dog than working on the marriage. I realize she thought moving was the problem. Now we know it wasn't. Now it's me. Now I'm the problem she needs to get away from. Luckily everyone is helping me to realize that the problem is within her.

She feels like she's tried long enough and is done. I don't think she can say that until she's tried counseling with me. I think she's just making a lot of rationalizations and just wants to do what she wants. 

Sadly, her siblings are very upset by this. They all agree that this is essentially the same thing their father did to them when they were young. Everyone is hurting from this, but my wife seems to only be concerned with herself. With the help of everyone, I'm starting to see how things have always been about her. I think once I get through this I'll feel wonderful about living my own life.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

MC5 said:


> I feel as though I've done nothing so major as to deserve this. Still, my wife has to want to be with me. That's really the only deciding factor. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong. I'm sure one day someone will love me for who I am. Believe me, I am a unique individual and I'm willing to put as much into a relationship as my partner. I'm just not willing to pull its weight alone. Oddly, I think both my wife and I feel like we were pulling it alone. I wish we could both figure that out.



Hey there, just on the takes two to tango thing - I agree that both people contribute to the problems as well as the positives in any relationship - but there are cases where what one party has contributed to the demise of a relationship is fairly minimal...and in any event as you rightly point out - it takes two to try and fix things - the sad fact is that lots of people find themselves in your situation - completely blindsided by their spouse - that's the bit that is unfair - 

My H. left about 3 months ago for the second time after a very half-hearted and petulant attempt at reconciliation - and he was very indignant with me saying that he had been trying harder than I would ever know. That was the truth - he never told me he was struggling and waited until he had formed an intense and idealistic EA with a work colleague before he got round to telling me that "he couldn't do us anymore". In fact when he left the second time he told me that he actually knew what he'd like to change about our relationship but that "it" was more "irrational" than that...

aint that the truth! 

I agree with those who have been saying to stop beating yourself up - I went through a period where I just throught I must have been an awful person - I loved my H so much that I actually was willing to believe all the BS he told me - 

But I have now come to realise that sometimes for reasons that aren't our fault our spouses want something "outside" of the relationship - and they think that they will find happiness there. 

Hey I don't know - maybe people do go on to find true love and undying happiness - but to seek it at such a cost to those who love them so much seems wrong to me -


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## MC5 (Sep 4, 2009)

Sounds like you can relate to my situation very well. Wow, I'm sorry you had to go through that. 

Right now I seem to go through alternating periods of empowerment followed by the feeling of getting kicked in the guts by a mule. It's hard to live her right now and watch her start to put together her new life without me. I hope we can come up with something soon to change this situation. We are working on it.

Funny how she's in such a hurry to meet with real estate agents and mediators -- anyone but a counselor!


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