# How to incorporate this



## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

Ive posted before about household issues. Briefly, i go to med school, with that supprt family (wife and 2 kids) and sister in law. Had some troubles before about wife saying i dont do enough and trying to get me to do more around house despite when i come home i care for kids, bath them, sometimes clean dishes. 

Today wife, as i sat down to watch a movie (rare), said that i could more around house. I told her that i had asked her and her sister to have a sit down and describe what needs to be done whonis currently doing what and then equitably divide rest including sister innlaw. That meeting never happened i actually was called boring for only wanting to talk about that kinda stuff so i never addressed it, BUT i have only been doing what I feel needs doing. .. I currently have paid summer internship so i come home at 6 and make food for dinner as we usually eat at 8pm ... I like cooking because i am eating a strict diet now so i really like that. 

Well, when i reminded her today that i had asked for meeting she said she is not doing anything either!

So tomorrow i will text SIL and we will meet to discuss chores ... I feel it is better like this as incan laydown my contributions on paper such as supporting family and handling finances, applicatikns all paperwork, which would other wise be swept under rug...

Here is the question tho... Wife has been working to start own business ... A good one! No money yet from it or for forseeable future. How should we incorporate this work into our discussion! I will say i work she will say that she also does ontop of caring for kids, Even though that work isnt providing for family. Im ok with her business and goals but i feel with her it is like preparing for court

I know ive been soft in the past and am trying to assert self and not be doormat and it is working i just feel tomorrow is crucial to maintain equitable roles at home etc...

Any advice on any of the above?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Have you read No More Mister Nice Guy?


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

tryingtobebetter said:


> Have you read No More Mister Nice Guy?


I am reading it now....

Advice and advice on her business?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Thehusband2 said:


> Here is the question tho... Wife has been working to start own business ... A good one! No money yet from it or for forseeable future. How should we incorporate this work into our discussion! I will say i work she will say that she also does ontop of caring for kids, Even though that work isnt providing for family. Im ok with her business and goals but i feel with her it is like preparing for court
> 
> I know ive been soft in the past and am trying to assert self and not be doormat and it is working i just feel tomorrow is crucial to maintain equitable roles at home etc...
> 
> ...


Until her activity begins to generate an income, it's a *hobby*, not a *job*. It's to be done on her free time and not a priority over and above the household chores. Since there is no evidence that this activity will generate income in the "foreseeable future", it can't be considered as a serious venture, because the possibility exists that it will never generate income. She could become bored with it, circumstances could change, or a number of other "events" could cause this activity to fail. Therefore it is, for now, merely a "hobby".


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

thx survivorwife!

i was thinking that way however i feel the word hobby would minimize what she is working on so i wont say that but essentially i see the point.

the problem is she has a problem and cannot be a SAHM...she said this and shows it.

but she likes being there for kids ... best of both worlds - not working a 9-5 to be with kids but being with kids but not doing house work...


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

Does the SIL work? Does she contribute financially to pay her way? If not, she should be doing most of the chores to pay for her room and board. If she doesn't want to contribute either by paying her way or doing the chores to pay her way, she needs to move out. You are not obligated to support her.

Your wife does need to see your contributions on paper, also put down the time you leave and come home, add up the hours per week you are away from the home and the amount of awake time you have at home. Ask her plane out, what does she expect from you, to do it all? She needs to contribute and so does her sister.

By the way, there is no such thing as "The best of both worlds". As soon as you give your time to one, you sacrifice the other.


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## agreenbough (Oct 1, 2012)

If what she is working on will lead to income, I don't think it's fair to call it a hobby. Is going to school so you can earn a better income a hobby?


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks for all advice

1) sister doesnt contribute financially but does baby sit her niece and nephew which saves us $

2) yes, i will exactly get things on paper so it is seen that I am at school (through which supporting family+extended fam) + care for finances (which honestly is 1 hr per week and 2 at month end)+do admin stuff, such filling applications for funds, negotiating fees etc...

3) @agreenbough: yes it MIGHT lead to income, my schooling currently IS supporting us completely and BETTER than when i was working (i wont go into details). i wont say what she is doing is a hobby (think it minimizes it unfairly) but how would you incorporate it into everyones roles. Would you say that my 10 hours at school per day = 10 hours of her working on her business? I agree that not everything is to be distilled down into dollars BUT what I am trying to get a handle on is what is appropriate...is it appropriate that she now drops ALL or MOST home things because she is busy working on business similar to my position of dropping home chores because I am at school Mon-Fri 10 hours a day working towards MD? is it equivalent? if yes how so, if no why not? That is what I am trying to gain a better perspective on...


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## agreenbough (Oct 1, 2012)

Personally I think if you are providing all or most of the income, all or most of the housework should not be your responsibility. I work part time, so it only makes sense to me that I should be doing more around the house than my husband. 
If her business start-up isn't really on a timetable, it seems to me that she could spend less time on it and more time on home-related things. I personally find housework to be mind-numbingly boring, so I can understand if she's trying to avoid it, but it still has to be done.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

I think you need to talk seriously about the needs of the household and each person's PRIMARY responsibility. If you work 10 hours a day in med school, then her primary responsibility should be the household chores. I'm sorry if she doesn't like it, that's just too damn bad. She can work and hire a nanny and maid, or she can do it herself. 

That's her primary job, period. If her side business isn't going to generate any income in the forseeable future, then it needs to take a back seat to her other responsibilities.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

justonelife said:


> I think you need to talk seriously about the needs of the household and each person's PRIMARY responsibility. If you work 10 hours a day in med school, then her primary responsibility should be the household chores. I'm sorry if she doesn't like it, that's just too damn bad. She can work and hire a nanny and maid, or she can do it herself.
> 
> That's her primary job, period. If her side business isn't going to generate any income in the forseeable future, then it needs to take a back seat to her other responsibilities.


:iagree:

In addition to this, if she really want's to get her business going, maybe she just needs to put it on hold until you get your education done and can be home more to take on more of that responsibility. 

Ultimately, for now, even if she keeps her business, she needs to be the primary person to do the house chores. No normal person could expect you to attend med school, do an internship AND be in charge of the house and kids. There is a time and place for everything, this is the time for you to study and your wife to pick up her end and take care of the home front.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Two grown women can't look after two kids and do the chores? What is wrong with them? You're talking some serious entitlement issues here. Stop pandering to the both of them and tell them to cut the chats and get to work. Personally, I'd ship them both home and hire a nanny.


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Two grown women can't look after two kids and do the chores? What is wrong with them? You're talking some serious entitlement issues here. Stop pandering to the both of them and tell them to cut the chats and get to work. Personally, I'd ship them both home and hire a nanny.


Haha ... Well SIL goes to school and does babysit for us when we need it. Wife openly stated "i cannot be a sahm, i cannot!" This was in context of a conversation about our neighbour. This family has 3 kids mom stays home full time is happy and husband works full time and is provider ... This women works hard! Kids always out, can always smell dinner and husband comes homes and is content simply playing with kids or atleast it seems that way on surface. Most importnantly this mom LOOKS happy to be doing it!
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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh i should add... One time she mentioned she cannot do all sahm stuff a d that she doesnt wanna do it anymore. But that was it! No plan stating shes ready to go back to work nothing. I am open to her going to work but up till now it sounds like shes pouting by saying "i dont want it anymore" but does nothing to change it, wxcept her new business venture....

Part of my personal values are that one should follow a dream etc... I did with my med school and so should she with her business but my question still remains... How to acknowledge and i corporate her business effort with the rest of the things needing to be done?
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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

before you start allocating who is working on a job and who is working on their hobby, you need to prioritize the things that need to be done to keep the home afloat. Chores are needed to keep the kids environment clean, home maintained groceries in the fridge etc...
If she dedicated just your drive time each week to hose hold chores I would bet she could have the vacuuming done and the dishes done. If you came home and took laundry as your chore then while it is washing and while it is drying you can do your studies and take breaks to fold and sort etc...
Compromises like this will be what gets you past the hobby conversation. If she is not willing to put in the same time per week all inclusive hobbies, work, chores whatever than you have a bigger issue which is a lazy, selfish wife.
If you are the only one bringing in money than your situation is of the highest priority, so you can't take from the time in that slot to feed the situation. She can though so if their is slack to be picked up from the list of priorities she needs to be the one to pick it up.
Sister in law needs to step her game up too. Rent, utilities, food, and what ever else you provide her for free needs to be re-paid in the assistance of these priorities and that needs to be understood by all. Taking care of the kids is a nice start. Doing that though means your wife needs to step it up as well.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Thehusband2 said:


> Oh i should add... One time she mentioned she cannot do all sahm stuff a d that she doesnt wanna do it anymore. But that was it! No plan stating shes ready to go back to work nothing. I am open to her going to work but up till now it sounds like shes pouting by saying "i dont want it anymore" but does nothing to change it, wxcept her new business venture....
> 
> Part of my personal values are that one should follow a dream etc... I did with my med school and so should she with her business but my question still remains... How to acknowledge and i corporate her business effort with the rest of the things needing to be done?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I respect that you are being deliberately vague to protect your privacy, however it might help if you could offer just a bit more information in regards to how your W spends her time on this "enterprise" - (better word than "hobby")

Is she spending time studying for a class that will offer some sort of certification, or is she merely browsing the internet for information? 

Will the business, if and when it does generate income be done inside the home, or will she require outside space to perform this enterprise?

Is the time period between now and when it "might" generate income a set time, or a guess based on certain assumptions?

The reason I am asking the above questions is to determine whether she has a sincere desire to succeed in this particular enterprise, or whether she is merely spinning a dream in order to get out of housework and raising children.

What do you think?


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

survivorwife said:


> I respect that you are being deliberately vague to protect your privacy, however it might help if you could offer just a bit more information in regards to how your W spends her time on this "enterprise" - (better word than "hobby")
> 
> Is she spending time studying for a class that will offer some sort of certification, or is she merely browsing the internet for information?
> 
> ...


:smthumbup:good question :smthumbup:


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

If she doesn't want to be a SAHM, then she had better find a job. She IS a SAHM, which means she has certain responsibilities that she can't absolve herself from just because she "doesn't like it".

You probably don't like doing chores either, especially after working all day, but guess what? Stuff has to get done. Very few people ENJOY housework but it still has to be done.

As far as incorporating her "business", I would expand on survivorwife's suggestion. I would ask:

1. How much time do you need to realistically spend on this business each week? What does that involve?

2. When does she project that this business starts making money? 

3. How much money will it make?

4. What else needs to be invested in order to get the business going? Is there any software, equipment, etc needed?

5. Who is going to watch the children and do housework while she is working on her business?


Basically, if she wants you to consider her time spent on this business as equal to your med school work, then ask for her business plan. If it doesn't expect to make much money, then it really is more of a hobby and should be treated as such.


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

It is sincere, it is an online consignment business. filling a very nice niche. So thus far she has done research into businnes, registered it, has collected product, created website ecommerce, is selling products but low volume thus barely covering expenses of business. It has a shot. this was started in march. 

Yes i agree we need to prioritize, and i know right now household stuff is less of a priority then her business. The thing is she could spend 24 hrs a day on her businness ... There is always more to do and she is passionatte about it. I am happy for her too! But again i think that prioritization has to occur.
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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

So before i go and have a talk with wife and sil... Any last minute pieces of advice regarding her business venture and incorporating that into chore list?
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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

Yes, she spends the first 4 hours of the day feeding the kids, cleaning the house and cooking dinner. Once she gets all that done she is free to spend the rest of her time on her business.

I hope she understands that in fulfilling her desires, the kids are the ones that are going to be neglected. BTW, I don't really care that she doesn't want to be a SAHM, the kids still need to come first.


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

Here is something that got me thinking... I was reading a bunch of articles online regarding chore division. There are So many bitter and angry sounding articles from sahms that say that caring for children is a job, cleaning is their 2nd job and THAT needs to be divided in an equitable way as husband works only 1 job .... Wow

That also got me thinking of a few times i have come home at 10pm and there is stuff to do... Basically wife had left stuff undone and then of course once im in i can help. Example kitchen sink piled with dishes... Thus only way to eat and prep for next day, clean dishes... That did happen a few times!
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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I don't know what to say about those articles. Granted that cleaning house is not the most fulfilling job in the world but it is not that hard to do either. I raised 5 children, homeschooled them, cooked from scratch - even homemade bread and kept the house clean - all while hubby worked out of town and only came home on the weekends.

She has more than enough time to do it


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I just want to add. With 2 women living in your house, who don't work outside the home. I am at a complete loss as to why you need to do any of the house chores. For you to have to come home to a dirty kitchen is inexcusable. These women are taking you for a ride. Now maybe you don't mind being treated like this or maybe you feel you are being the "good" husband. But all I can see coming of this is that as long as her and her sister can get away with treating you this way, she is loosing respect for you and when she gets her business going, she will be gone.

Now I certainly don't mean to say you shouldn't do anything. If you are home on the weekends, maybe you want to do the cooking OR clean the kitchen then, you can also give the kids their baths, read to them at night and put them to bed. Yes you can HELP, but not take on the responsibility of a duty when you are working 10 hours a day.

Also, big deal that your SIL watches the kids a lot. If she was to pay room and board it would cost her about $500 per month. At minimum wage that would be almost 4 hours a day. If she worked 4 hours a day on your house, while she watched the kids, problem solved.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

JustHer said:


> I just want to add. With 2 women living in your house, who don't work outside the home. I am at a complete loss as to why you need to do any of the house chores. For you to have to come home to a dirty kitchen is inexcusable. These women are taking you for a ride. Now maybe you don't mind being treated like this or maybe you feel you are being the "good" husband. But all I can see coming of this is that as long as her and her sister can get away with treating you this way, she is loosing respect for you and when she gets her business going, she will be gone.
> 
> Now I certainly don't mean to say you shouldn't do anything. If you are home on the weekends, maybe you want to do the cooking OR clean the kitchen then, you can also give the kids their baths, read to them at night and put them to bed. Yes you can HELP, but not take on the responsibility of a duty when you are working 10 hours a day.
> 
> Also, big deal that your SIL watches the kids a lot. If she was to pay room and board it would cost her about $500 per month. At minimum wage that would be almost 4 hours a day. If she worked 4 hours a day on your house, while she watched the kids, problem solved.


Great post. I can answer the question of why in the world two ladies can't handle the chores. They don't want to. Wife said she doesn't want to be a SAHM. What she is saying is she would rather someone else cook, clean, do the household chores and take care of the kids. She would rather spend time working (at a job or whatever) or doing anything than that stuff. I've seen this before, and usually the husband ends up "doing what it takes" to keep everything functional, including working many hours at home after working many hours at work. 

Here is what I would do if I were you. I wouldn't do it all negotiation-like. I would write down the stuff I'm willing to do, plop it down in front of the other ladies, and that's final. The stuff that doesn't get done by them doesn't get done. If dishes are piled in the sink, leave them them there to fricken rot and eat out.

This stuff is bogus.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

My dear man,

Just wait until you hit residency! You need to reset this entitled woman's perceptions. Otherwise, you are headed for divorce.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

KanDo said:


> My dear man,
> 
> Just wait until you hit residency! You need to reset this entitled woman's perceptions. Otherwise, you are headed for divorce.


Has to be done.


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

@justher: youre right it is inexcusable which is why ive stopped doing extra and refuse to do chores i feel is too much ... I do bath kids and put to bed and play with them i like that as they are my kids and that is time together. Before i was thinking that there is just a lot of stuff to do, i was just starting med and thought i was doing what i can "working hard". I realized after a while that regardless it wasnt acknowledged and that "i dont help around house" which is when resentment started. 

@eyuop i like that idea of just saying what i will do. 

Ok so i still am at a little loss as to how to acknowledge her business? Example i came home and she has been working for the past hour... She is going to says shes been working but as others have pointed out it is not contributing to family income more to her own well being as she is stimulated by this project! How to acknowledge this? If it were a part time job that would be easy but this is something she just randomly go to work on and claim shes been working all day even more hours than me, it could easily turn out that im the one who works less...JK but seriously any more advice on her project?
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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

_Ok so i still am at a little loss as to how to acknowledge her business? Example i came home and she has been working for the past hour... She is going to says shes been working but as others have pointed out it is not contributing to family income more to her own well being as she is stimulated by this project! How to acknowledge this? If it were a part time job that would be easy but this is something she just randomly go to work on and claim shes been working all day even more hours than me, it could easily turn out that im the one who works less...JK but seriously any more advice on her project?_



JustHer said:


> Yes, she spends the first 4 hours of the day feeding the kids, cleaning the house and cooking dinner. Once she gets all that done she is free to spend the rest of her time on her business.
> 
> I hope she understands that in fulfilling her desires, the kids are the ones that are going to be neglected. BTW, I don't really care that she doesn't want to be a SAHM, the kids still need to come first.


I already answered this - as stated above. Her priorities are screwed up. Unless she wants to support herself, she needs to rethink what is important. When she gets all her family responsibilities done she may work on her business as much as she likes. When the kids are in school, when you are done with school, then she will have more time to devote to her business. Until then, no. Sorry, but that is life.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

JustHer said:


> _Ok so i still am at a little loss as to how to acknowledge her business? Example i came home and she has been working for the past hour... She is going to says shes been working but as others have pointed out it is not contributing to family income more to her own well being as she is stimulated by this project! How to acknowledge this? If it were a part time job that would be easy but this is something she just randomly go to work on and claim shes been working all day even more hours than me, it could easily turn out that im the one who works less...JK but seriously any more advice on her project?_
> 
> 
> 
> I already answered this - as stated above. Her priorities are screwed up. Unless she wants to support herself, she needs to rethink what is important. When she gets all her family responsibilities done she may work on her business as much as she likes. When the kids are in school, when you are done with school, then she will have more time to devote to her business. Until then, no. Sorry, but that is life.


:iagree:


True. I was raised that your "chores" come first, before your leisure time to spend on what you want to do. As a mother, naturally that means the children and their needs come first. Always. Safety. Food. Clean House. Once the children are settled, then I could have some "me time" to do what I want. While the children are not in school, that means most of the day is devoted to the household needs. That also means that while the children are in school I would have more leisure time.

It's all about time management.


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

*a bust*

Well our meeting of the three of us was a bust - SIL was home waiting, I was home, wife was at gym and came home too late...as her sister was waiting wife ""felt sorry" for her sister waiting for her, so she told sister that we can talk later and SIL went out... yes...WTF!

Well I started talking to my wife and she is impossible to talk to. she doesnt want to look at a list of tasks, make schedules etc... that is boring she says, she says how about having fun and I responded that it isnt fun being disrespected and being told you do nothing the minute you sit down to relax for the evening!

The conversation quickly went south as she jumps to different topics (confuses me) including her business and she says it isnt fair that i get to pursue my dreams, what about hers? she says with tears in her eyes!

JUST WOW! I am beginning to think she is crazy!

She quit her full time job 2 years ago, tried to start a couple things which didnt work and we all supported her in one way or another. This is a totally different business she decided to start in March! AFTER I started my program (she new my aspirations were to enter med school before we got married 10 years ago) basically she agreed to that when we married and she agreed by inviting her sister and living off the proceeds of my school work.

BASICALLY im venting and im tired this is what i wrote her today (yes i wrote because talking doesnt work!):

Summary:
-list of chores i will do (i took eveything i could think of into account and divided equally and fairly between the 3) (THANKS eyuop!)

-told her, that her sister would most likely like more chores as it is likely uncomfortable not knowing whose doing what and what her roles is - I can totally understand that. To be honest SIL is not the problem, its my wife.

told her she had 2 years to start business but she didnt, told her it is not the optimal time to start her endeavour but that i understand shes passionate about it, excited, and needs stimulation, i get that! But that needs to be done in our current context in which there are other priorities (yes my school and children and home)! Her business IS possible WITH planning and those boring schedules!

-told her I am not stopping her from pursuing her goals, in fact, it is BECAUSE she has the opportunity not to have to work, that she has the awesome OPPORTUNITY to both be with kids, and pursue her business. So instead of crying of how unfair things are towards her, she should realize how lucky she really is...I told her that she really take things for granted!!!

-I told her that yes i am unhappy. How could i not be when I am not respected or heard, and ideas, like today, were shot down. I told her anything worth having takes work and proposed working with marriage builders a few times a week. For her, and I, and for kids, so that they can have both actual parents living in the same house in a happy, communicative, and respectful relationship. 

sorry about the vent!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What was her response?


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

no response


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

i'm giving it 6 months...im not a relationship expert but am willing to try, to communicate, to date, to enjoy life. but i cannot communicate with her, and so far she doesnt seem to want to go down that route of relationship building. She is above that. 

From reading some of the threads on TAM she has many BPD symptoms and im thinking it is not me that is wrong here

i am still young and deserve some one who i can speak with and when we have problems, reason with, compromise with. not silent treatment abuse BS. childish attitudes....soooo tired


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Thehusband2 said:


> i'm giving it 6 months...im not a relationship expert but am willing to try, to communicate, to date, to enjoy life. but i cannot communicate with her, and so far she doesnt seem to want to go down that route of relationship building. She is above that.
> 
> From reading some of the threads on TAM she has many BPD symptoms and im thinking it is not me that is wrong here
> 
> i am still young and deserve some one who i can speak with and when we have problems, reason with, compromise with. not silent treatment abuse BS. childish attitudes....soooo tired


highly recommend marriage counseling. Tell her it is that or you are out. Any spouse that is in love would rather try counseling that just give up. You need to take some control


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