# Confused about wife's emotional affairs...



## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

So my wife and I have been hitting a few rough patches and I have been quiet about it lately as I really don’t know what to do in the situation.

A bit of background (sorry long read :/):

I have always been a long term relationship guy. Even my college days. I always wanted to spend my life with someone who cares for me and I care for them. Every break up I been through has been girls at different points in their life where they move away or are at a changing period and sort of life moving us in other directions. I have been contacted by ex’s in the past who want to be together again, but again life moved in other directions. I eventually met my wife and it seemed everything clicked.
My wife and I first met 5-6 years ago when I was unemployed and just starting my career. We dated after she got divorced from a cheating husband and eventually became serious… and she stuck with me and we stuck together through the early year hard times. During these times on the side she worked as a model outside of her normal career path. She would do all sorts of modeling shoots and some artistic nudes, but they were always done on a professional level. She enjoyed the attention as it boosted her ego and helped with some emotional issues for her. As my career accelerated we eventually moved and then moved in together and then got married/bought a house. She eventually dropped her modeling past time as the money really wasn’t needed and we had other focuses.

She has always kept in touch with old friends and ex’s online and this never really bothered me as it was more of just keeping in touch and chatting about random things. She didn’t hide it or anything and was open about her communications.

As time progressed she started to get the itch and talked with me about it and she wanted to pick up the hobby again. She eventually met a photographer in the area who wanted to do a shoot with her. Things fell through and the photographer would randomly send messages out to her and chat. Over time they were chatting every day.

One day I saw some of the messages pop up and it was basically him hitting on her very sexually. (This guy is married) I couldn’t help but look. They had conversations about completely random topics, and then he would just hit on her – asking her things like if I am showering would you get my back? Along with other random stuff. He mentioned how he saw her and I at a store once and she looked hot basically admiring from afar. She would ignore those lines in the conversations and keep communicating and changing the topic. Eventually they were talking about doing face time etc as the guy was going through medical issues and she was curious. She ended up staying late after work one day face timing with him in the parking lot – and then later she made an excuse to go to another room and was face timing with him shirtless. I walked in on them and she quickly shut it down.

I confronted her about it. I was extremely hurt. I felt like my whole world was being torn asunder in a blink of an eye from some random guy in the area I have never met projecting his own inadequacies on others filling his hollow shell by reaching out to other women.

At first she was apologetic saying she loved me more than anything in life and she would never cheat on me. I said some cheating is more than emotional than physical and she again said nothing physical would ever happen and she is not emotionally invested in this guy. She said I cannot control who she can and cannot be friends with and I agreed but I asked for open clarity on what’s going on in these situations. She said chatting with him gave her confidence and helped her ego and she got this from her other friends online/modeling in the past. She wasn’t interested in him at all and it was just chatting and she did nothing wrong. Days later she approached me on it and yelled at me I don’t trust her. She said I am one of the worst people in the world for snooping accidentally. She also went off how I never have anything to worry about and now she feels hurt I approached her about this. She discussed how I potentially have an inferiority complex and I am projecting it on her as being needy and untrusting. She asked if I want a divorce to which I said no I want to work this out. I told her I don’t trust him and this situation is just really really weird. I said the facetime thing is too much connection, she said she facetimes everyone as its fun (WE never facetimed and I never seen her do it before). I asked we go to therapy and work it out and she said no as with her previous marriage it didn’t work. Eventually things settled down and she drifted away from talking to him. She kept chatting with some of her other old friends and things sort of got peaceful again.

I still felt hurt overall. I felt like I am always the bad guy. I started to question if I was crazy in this situation and being overly possessive. I felt like a level of trust was broken for me and I always kept wondering what was really going on. Did I just need to take it at face value? For peace I just left it as it was done. As she was chatting with some of her friends months later she told one of her ex’s I love you back in a message. This guy is out of state and married with kids but they apparently helped each other remotely through hard times throughout their lives. I eventually said nothing and shrugged it off as well people can love more than one person in their life time – and thinking about it I still love some of my old relationships but we have moved on and away from each other – they just happened to keep and touch and love each other as friends. There was nothing dirty or sexual ever said between them so this didn’t bother me.

Again things calmed down for months and we were extremely happy. Going out and doing things together. We even started to play PC games together again. That’s when guy number 2 happened…

As we were playing an online game we ended up joining a guild because this charismatic friendly person grouped with us. We were still learning the game and having tons of fun together. The guy who befriended both of us was in the guild with his GF at the time. Eventually we would all jump into voice chat together and progress in the game as a group.

One night next to me I heard my wife typing frantically at her keys. I asked her as question and she did not reply. When I glanced over I saw the guy sending private messages to her in the game talking about what he would want to do with her/asking for more pics etc. I instantly dropped a “WTF?” and approached her about it. Apparently she sent a link to her modeling account and they guy loved the pictures. He was showering her with complements and chatting on the side with her about it for the past week in the game. He was saying things like he would love to do oral, can she send him a P***y shot, and she was replying back she’s not into that. She said he’s just some super younger kid out of state and it made her feel good to be wanted by more people. I checked my wife’s modeling profile and she had a new friend online – sure enough he was some right out of high school kid. My wife started joking with me asking if I was jealous of this younger man hitting on her. I replied yes and I think it’s inappropriate. Things got weird again and she then stated how I don’t trust her again. She said I don’t have self confidence in myself or our relationship. Again she started asking if I want a divorce etc and I am blowing things out of proportion as obviously things would never get physical and this was just added entertainment to her.

Days later I was at work and she was online playing. I was still furious and anxious and wondering what was going on. When I checked some external tools to see what they were all doing in the guild it showed them in completely different zones and the guy was doing stuff with his girlfriend in the game.

Eventually interest died all around and they stopped chatting on the side and we ended up leaving the game later.

A few weeks after this my work was having an external event and everyone was invited. My wife went out and bought new clothing for it and was really excited for this dressed up event at a really impressive venue. She wanted to be my arm candy as she put it and was really excited.

The day of the event she had a depression streak. I needed to go to the event as I lined everything up with co-workers and bosses for it. I stayed with her and she started saying how the world sucks, our marriage sucks and going into further depression and yelling at me and our relationship and divorce and killing herself and everything else under the sun. She eventually told me fine just go and I left for the event as I felt I was doing what I needed to do. I also felt I was taking a bit of a stand for myself because this was only going to be negative with me staying home and she was constantly cutting into me and our relationship verbally. The moment I got to the venue she sent me multiple texts she hates me, I am the worst person in the world. After glancing at it – I didn’t want to ruin my evening further and ignored my phone. When I got home I found myself locked out. We exchanged a series of texts and she was basically along the lines of because I didn’t support her in her time of need I don’t deserve to come home. She continued to say she hated me and us. After an hour of exchanging very hateful words via text I eventually went and crashed at a friends place.

The next day she text me saying well I guess I need to legally let you in some time. I went home.

When I got there she hasn’t left the bedroom in 24 hours. We eventually talked and it was sort of an episode of depression and her main thing was that she didn’t want me to leave when she needs me. I don’t have to be right there with her but she wants me around the house when she has these emotional surges. I told her that’s fine, but I really want her to think about what she says next time. The next day as we are chatting she mentions she made an online friend to talk to while I was out. She says she put a craigslist ad up for a chat buddy. I ask about this and what’s the situation. It’s an older local guy and she showed me some of the chats and they were all normal. The guy is having a baby with his girlfriend and they are just sort of anonymous chatters who can bounce things off each other. This time they are communicating via Kik as it’s more anonymous and I won’t see/get frustrated with the situation. They both agree they are never meeting up as a mutual friendship via online is agreeable…
I really don’t know how I feel about this and eventually say fine and we move on.

Currently:

Things are going great again, my unease/trust issues are slowly improving over time. I have more confidence, she has more confidence and tells me I am the best thing that ever happened to her. I get promoted again at work and we are starting to look into having a baby and its been about 6 months down the road. She’s not really devoting time to chatting with anyone, our house time is more spent with each other.


That brings us to this past week:

While we were hanging out after a long work day for us both, she starts asking me about how I feel about monogamy. I say I find it to be really the pinnacle of connection with someone in a relationship. She then starts to talk about human nature and cheaters. I told her I don’t believe cheaters are normal people – I strongly feel that they have an innate internal problem where they reach out for self-validation. This causes a dopamine effect much like an addict. They get a rush from this and feel they have to repeat the process to feel normal. I then went into how this is sort of like recovering addicts – they are never the same person as they know there is this chemical rush reward mechanism right around the corner they can reach out to and it’s always a monkey on their back.

She ended up getting quiet in this discussion and went back to her phone. She then says she was discussing this topic with her friend online and she was agreeing with me.

A few min later she is sitting next to me and on her phone pops up something from the guy about how hes trying to be good and how hard he is…

I immediately say “Uhh…. Wtf” she instantly snaps at me “No”. She then types out this long reply about monogamy and how it’s awesome to her etc. She then turns to me and tells me she was discussing with this dude the topic we just mentioned and they were debating it. I just don’t say anything.

The next day I spend really questioning myself again. If I make it a big deal it will be a problem. If I don’t react and remain confident it will probably die out? I also have zero context for the rest of the conversations. I feel I should just trust and keep moving forward for the peace and stability. I spend hours in my head though going over the ‘wtf’ scenario again. Why is he saying that? Why does she just change the topic and not just end it when a boundary is crossed? What is our relationship missing for her to do this? Does she care about how I feel at all? That night she’s a bit more snippy about some things. She gets home and sits in her car before coming in. She says she does this because she needs a personal time to unwind, it makes me anxious but she does do this often. Eventually we are on the couch relaxing again and she is browsing things online, we are sharing jokes etc. At one point she turns away and starts texting the guy again. It’s very brief and not super time consuming so I ignore it. Eventually we go to bed. I wake up much earlier and she does and we both like going to bed together to snuggle and she watches tv in the bedroom while I sleep. Tonight she is on her phone. I let her know I am laying down and she just says “ok”. She’s browsing medical topics of interest and reading articles. It’s getting late now and past the normal time she snuggles up next to me. I keep laying there running through things in my head again debating if I say something or not, but eventually just get up and go to the bathroom. I glace over at her and shes texting the dude again who yesterday said hes trying to be good and hes hard etc. I just flat out don’t know what to do – I am instantly filled with rage and wtf again but I just lay back down and turn away. She says to me go back to sleep etc I need energy for work tomorrow, but I lay there and keep shuffling around wtf is going on next to me? I don’t lay in bed chatting with friends. I have no clue what they are chatting about at this point.

Eventually I keep shuffling around and she blurts out fine I am laying down etc and we go to bed. I again shuffle around and can’t sleep the entire night.

This brings me to now – at this state I feel like I am going emotionally numb. I don’t want to fight this battle anymore. There is no evidence she has ever done anything behind my back – but she loves the attention of other people and sort of just keeps chatting along and it doesn’t matter with who.

I feel there were some trust levels broken and some emotional manipulation – and any time I bring anything up I am the bad guy. I just don’t know what to do. It’s like being married to two people. One is very sweet and loving and praises me for my efforts and our marriage and is loving, the other is the attention craver that will say the most hurtful things in the world, drops the D-Day words, dismisses me and tells me what I am feeling. I just don’t know what to do. I asked if we have problems and she says no, I asked if there's counseling we can do and she says no everything is fine but the way I am reacting to this external communication/validation thing.

...Well I confronted her about it last night in a non-threatening, here are the logical concerns - this is bugging me - wtf way.

She assured me nothing is going on at all in this situation. She kept saying she just likes talking to different people through social media as it gives an outlet and perspective and she loves me and would never threaten our relationship. I brought up the past things and she said this isn't like that at all and she doesn't talk to those people anymore etc.

She handed me her phone and opened the app conversation and showed it all to me. It all seemed normal except the lines that we saw and I exclaimed about on the couch are now gone... she also said she wasn't texting from the bed the other night and said she was on other sites and looking things up... I reiterated what I/we saw from the messages and she denied it happening and then said oh it must have been about how this guy is trying to be good studying but it is hard etc. I didn’t have my glasses on but flat out I didn’t see the messages I swear I saw the other day… She also said you cannot delete messages in the app. She then also denied texting from the bedroom the other night and she was up browsing and reading things.

She kept reassuring/trying to comfort me and fell asleep holding me and made an off handed comment during another conversation with self-degrading remark about well she’s a ***** etc. I told her I didn’t want to hear it and don’t know what to think.

This morning I looked up the app details and in older versions – yes you could not delete messages. You can now in its current versions.
I don't know wtf to think. I basically said this is really odd and left it so i could sleep as it was basically 5 hours until I had to be up for work.

I want there to be a smoking gun - boom here you go correct this or done or something along those lines but there isn’t. There’s sketchy behavior some past things and my memory. At this point – I think I will talk to a lawyer friend for advisement. It seems like I almost need to wait for something to happen again. If she comes and directs blame at me for talking to her last night I am going to call her out of the App being able to delete messages and I know what I saw (again) but can’t prove.

TLDR: Wife having multiple emotional affairs with other men for self comfort - when I try to talk about or do anything she denies everything, covers the evidence and slowly manipulates me.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Total disrespect from her. And DO NOT have a child with this woman!!!

First and foremost you can't nice her out of an EA. 

Putting ads on Craigslist. Come on!!


Your next move should be, shut the [email protected] up and gather evidence. Get a voice recorder and put it in her car. In fact get 2, one for the house also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Why are you tolerating such disrespect. Sounds like there is no kids involved. I would bounce. She probably had multiple FWB while with you. You need 
to work on your self confidence. No woman wants a pushover. That blowup about her privacy is a $hit test that you failed.

Look up the 180 and work on implementing it. Work on being a better version of yourself. Sounds like she's shopping for a new man. Are you sure it was the husband that was unfaithful in her last marriage? It could have been her. Judging from what you've wrote here, she sounds like a serial cheater.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

And to add: She keeps doing this because you are allowing it. 

If you have a child with this woman there is a huge chance it won't be yours. 

And a huge chance you will get an STD. I read a story here where this woman got aids from her affair partner and gave it to her husband and he died from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

Thanks for the advice on the 180. 

During the first incident I was reading the no more mr nice guy book and I ended up going to a support group based on it. I will have to re-read here as I sort of put blinders on again and then tried to deal with the situation when it showed up again with this OOM. 

For the sex part - She really doesn't have time to meet or do anything with these people with the way our schedules work. I really don't think anything has gotten physical and from the past ones what I saw is her changing the subject and ignoring when these guys would flirt (before she knew I knew). Thats the main thing thats making me hold on to what we have - I don't theres no evidence in the history of fully stepping outside the relationship boundaries besides the fact of talking to these other people which boost her self esteem :/


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EA go away said:


> TLDR: Wife having multiple emotional affairs with other men for self comfort - when I try to talk about or do anything she denies everything, covers the evidence and slowly manipulates me.


File for divorce ASAP.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Most, if not all PA's start with an EA. 

It may be true she has no time for a PA (how many times have we heard that) but if she continues these EA's it's just a matter of time it turns physical...

Your wife has no boundaries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

EA go away said:


> Thanks for the advice on the 180.
> 
> During the first incident I was reading the no more mr nice guy book and I ended up going to a support group based on it. I will have to re-read here as I sort of put blinders on again and then tried to deal with the situation when it showed up again with this OOM.
> 
> For the sex part - *She really doesn't have time to meet or do anything with these people* with the way our schedules work. I really don't think anything has gotten physical and from the past ones what I saw is her changing the subject and ignoring when these guys would flirt (before she knew I knew). Thats the main thing thats making me hold on to what we have - I don't theres no evidence in the history of fully stepping outside the relationship boundaries besides the fact of talking to these other people which boost her self esteem :/


Not enough time? If you read threads on TAM, SI, and LS you'll see how so many men thought the same thing.
In an affair a woman will turn totally ****ty for her OM. You'll be lucky to get vanilla sex while she'll do outrageous acts, that the husband begs her to do, in a car in a parking lot. 

You have to stand up for yourself. Do you want to be with an attention ***** that you have to always police for the rest of your life? You sound young and hopefully without kids. There are plenty of woman that are not like this one. You need to cut your loss with this one.

Is this your first marriage? If so, why would you marry a divorcee? For picking poorly, now you'll be a divorcee yourself. That will take you out of the running for many quality woman, who'll assume you contributed to the failure of the marriage.

You need to do a 180 to help you detach. Work on yourself. You need to learn to love yourself enough to rather be alone than with a serial cheater.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Run fast away from this crazy, broken, woman. Dude seriously, she has real issues and you don't have kids so D ASAP and save yourself !


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Would you as a child want a mother who cheats on your father? 
You are talking your self into something being ok that you know is not OK. Stop doing that. Your wife is not wife or mother material. You yourself defined a cheater as ? I strongly feel that they have an innate internal problem where they reach out for self-validation. This causes a dopamine effect much like an addict . ?

You STRONGLY FEEL this way. Don't you think your wife feels she is stronger than you are, since even though you STRONGLY FEEL a certain way, you are tolerating her doing what you are strongly against?


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

How do I approach this? 

Like the last conversation I just got quiet and said ok whatever. If things end I hope this would just be clean and mutual so all finances can be split clearly etc.

I suck at talking to her - I don't know how to respond to a lie or call it since I don't have the evidence in my hands. 

Do I not say anything and just start doing the 180? If I notice something drop the papers? 

Do I say we need to talk again - state my emotions again about the situation and we go through the loop all over? Lay down boundaries and if she doesn't agree its done?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EA go away said:


> Thanks for the advice on the 180.
> 
> During the first incident I was reading the no more mr nice guy book and I ended up going to a support group based on it. I will have to re-read here as I sort of put blinders on again and then tried to deal with the situation when it showed up again with this OOM.
> 
> For the sex part - She really doesn't have time to meet or do anything with these people with the way our schedules work. I really don't think anything has gotten physical and from the past ones what I saw is her changing the subject and ignoring when these guys would flirt (before she knew I knew). Thats the main thing thats making me hold on to what we have - I don't theres no evidence in the history of fully stepping outside the relationship boundaries besides the fact of talking to these other people which boost her self esteem :/


Your wife's self esteem is the problem, she has very little. She needs the constant reinforcement from others. She is completely wrapped up in feeding her ego trying to feel "happy". 

She is doing the textbook blameshifting and will continue to do so because you have never held her accountable for her actions. This only fuels her to pursue more because she can. Never tell yourself a PA hasn't happened because she does have time, you would be amazed how they can and will find time if they want to. Eventually one of these will lead to a PA as her need for more validation will happen. 

You have proven one thing, how you have handled it isn't working. Filing for divorce may be your only option to show how serious you are this behavior won't be tolerated any longer.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

She has something wrong in her emotional make up, that she is very empty and needs constant filling.

I'd say go ahead & do the 180. Tell her she can text, chat, etc all she wants with female friends & female online acquaintences. Ask to see her profiles. I bet 80-90% of friends are male.

You cannot fix her.
Do not have a child with her.
If she cannot go to counseling, to realize that there are good, resourceful places she can fill her emotional meter, say that you do not support her having multiple (even if one at a time) EA's with other men. You did not take a vow of marriage with these other men, and you should not be expected to accept them into your marriage.

If she is unwilling to seek help & stop all male contact, then you are out.

Then, file for seperation, as soon as feasible.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EA go away said:


> How do I approach this?
> 
> Like the last conversation I just got quiet and said ok whatever. If things end I hope this would just be clean and mutual so all finances can be split clearly etc.
> 
> ...


Talk less and act more. You can't win in the blameshifting game. She isn't listening to what you are saying, she is just making statements putting it back on you because she knows you will back down. History has already shown that.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

I guess in the back of my mind I also keep wondering what if I am wrong and all these things are just innocent as she claims they are? Would I be ruining a good marriage by not having a thicker skin and not caring unless a PA fully happened?


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

EA go away said:


> I guess in the back of my mind I also keep wondering what if I am wrong and all these things are just innocent as she claims they are? Would I be ruining a good marriage by not having a thicker skin and not caring unless a PA fully happened?


No dude, no.

They might be innocent as she claim... So what ? They make you uncomfortable. You do not have to accept them. 
EA is cheating too... not just PA.

How would you be ruining a good marriage? Is it that good? IF so, then SHE is the one doing the ruining.

Do not talk to her about doing the 180. Just do it.
Tell her what you expect out of the marraige. (No third parties.. even if just online). Tell her you want full disclosure... all passwords, all apps, etc. Have her delete the profiles or the friends of any males that you do not know yourself. And if you do know them, but feel uncomfortable with her being their online friend, then delete those to.

When they try to start contacting her again, tell them, no, you are the husband, she is trying to save her marriage. If she gets divorce, then she is free to contact them again if she so choses to, but not until divorce.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EA go away said:


> I guess in the back of my mind I also keep wondering what if I am wrong and all these things are just innocent as she claims they are? Would I be ruining a good marriage by not having a thicker skin and not caring unless a PA fully happened?


Here blame game has worked very well on you. Her posing top less on FT for some guy isn't innocent and quit telling yourself that was part of her modeling career as an example.

She has crossed the line, you are no longer comfortable with the status quo. It's not a matter of if but when this situation implodes. Time is not your ally in these things. The more she does it the more she needs


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Well your wife is a model who seeks validation and attention from other men. She isn't wife material and doesn't seem to care about your feelings. Maybe it boils down to her not being the right person for you. The EA's are not going away because she likes what she is doing. Never let a women (anyone) trample over you just because she looks good and your afraid to loose her. If she gave a damn she wouldn't be a repeat offender and would RESPECT your feeling. Her ACTIONS says it all.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EA go away said:


> How do I approach this?


With a solid 180 and divorce papers.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EA go away said:


> I guess in the back of my mind I also keep wondering what if I am wrong and all these things are just innocent as she claims they are? Would I be ruining a good marriage by not having a thicker skin and not caring unless a PA fully happened?


LOL... what "good marriage" are you talking about?

And do you HONESTLY think that she's not gone full PA yet?

Gotta hand it to your WW... she's got you snowed pretty well.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> LOL... what "good marriage" are you talking about?
> 
> And do you HONESTLY think that she's not gone full PA yet?
> 
> Gotta hand it to your WW... she's got you snowed pretty well.


I agree with Gus that she's been physical with some of these guys. Probably has several FWB. 

She has you so twisted. I'll bet she's dropped the you're insecure and controlling cards when called on her actions. You have to mentally prepare for the mind games she'll use to get you do doubt yourself. You will not tolerate that behavior. You can't maker her to stop but you can cut her loose. 

Starting over can seem scary but imagine if you had kids with her. You at home taking care of kids while she goes for a "photo shoot." Hell no.

Work on yourself. 
Go to the gym. 
Up your wardrobe.
Improve Hair & facial hair styles.
Start some manly hobby, join a team sport, or take up a martial art
Develop male friendships.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Just for a moment I ask that you clear your mind and think logically. Let us cut through all of the "gee I hope, pie in the sky, rainbows and cotton candy hyperbole. Your wife is so lacking in self worth, self respect and self control that she is incapable of a mature relationship. If you consider posing topless and discussing mens erections are "innocent" then perhaps you are in more dire need of a dictionary than marriage advice. She has no respect for you and declares that you have no right selecting whom she may or may not befriend while she demands that you forego anything else in your life to stay with her during her emotional episodes. Do you not see this behavior as duplicitious and manipulative?

She completely controls this relationship.

Consider this also as you contemplate having children with her. She is apparently attractive as evidenced by your references to her modeling and considering herself "eye candy". So what happens to her self esteem as age and childbearing take their toll on her? It will plummet and her need for validtion will increase exponentially. What will she need then to feed her insecurities? Even more male attention both emotionally and PHYSICALLY. Are you physically and emotionally prepared to deal with that AND your young child/children too? This is your future with this woman as she currently presents. Think strongly before having children with her.

I advise that you seriuosly consider disassociating yourself from her so that you do not look back from some future point in time and reflect on the hell you are going through now as "the good ole' days". I wish you good fortune in yout decision.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

It's very simple. You look her in the eye, and say you no longer want to be married to her.
You don't have to discuss anything with her.
She has been ahead of you this whole time, and know how to get to you.

Maybe this was from her 1st marriage, but her knowing legally that she had to let you back into the house, says a lot to where she is willing to stoop, in order to manipulate you.

Dude, just cut your loses and run. A child would just give her more control over you.
Hell, you already let her have other men. 
Do you also want to be paying for her boyfriend too after she leaves with your child ??

Hell, she may never leave you, she has it good. She just have to sit in the car a while before she can face your lil needy face without laughing out loud.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

The stuff was one sided - dude was topless not her showing off a prototype pacemaker he had installed for a unique heart condition. Again this is information from her... I just saw shirtless dude and laptop close. 

The recent guy was telling her how hard he is and she replied back with paragraph about what monogamy means to her. But again when I ask for a explanation later the messages are gone and shes saying you cant delete anything in the app when its a fact you can. 

I am seeing the light though as even if this was all as she says there's the huge deception behind it and motive. 

The hardest thing for me would be finances and the fighting involved. I dont want to fight, I just want the damning evidence to drop on the table drop the papers and walk out and split it all 50/50 be done no alimony.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

EA go away said:


> The stuff was one sided - dude was topless not her showing off a prototype pacemaker he had installed for a unique heart condition. Again this is information from her... I just saw shirtless dude and laptop close.
> 
> The recent guy was telling her how hard he is and she replied back with paragraph about what monogamy means to her. But again when I ask for a explanation later the messages are gone and shes saying you cant delete anything in the app when its a fact you can.
> 
> ...


Velcro VAR in under the passenger seat of her car and where she does most of her talking. You can pick one up at Best Buy for about 50 bucks. There are apps that can retrieve deleted text. Weightlifter's the guru when it comes to that. I'm sure he'll chime in eventually. 

How long have you been married? Sounds like it hasn't been that long and with no kids, you shouldn't have to pay alimony but that's why you need to speak to a lawyer. Hopefully you can get out of this unscathed.

Once you go 180 and drop D papers on her, she may start a campaign to win you over. The D process takes time and can be stopped at anytime, if later you feel she's sufficiently turned herself around.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EA go away said:


> The stuff was one sided - dude was topless not her showing off a prototype pacemaker he had installed for a unique heart condition. Again this is information from her... I just saw shirtless dude and laptop close.
> 
> The recent guy was telling her how hard he is and she replied back with paragraph about what monogamy means to her. But again when I ask for a explanation later the messages are gone and shes saying you cant delete anything in the app when its a fact you can.
> 
> ...


A prototype pacemaker...ok that's a new one and an A for originality. She sent back the text about Manogamy because you were there. 

What fighting involved, your gonna be the bad guy no matter what so accept that now. If you filed tomorrow do you think she would actually fight to stay married? You haven't been married long enough to worry about alimony. 

You still seeing her thru rose colored glasses, not who she is. You are uncomfortable with her talking to all these guys, she is refusing to stop. Continue to excuse her behavior and it's only a matter of time before this marriage implodes either in an affair or your resentment.

She is treating you like crap


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Still with the pie in the sky huh?
My man, you will never catch this one. 
Except that, fold your hand and just let her go.

From what you've related, even evidence in hand she is still going to go nuke on you.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

Yeah... I am getting the picture more the whole thing is deception. I am almost temped to hit up her first husband and see if this was issues they had.

I'm going to hang out with some buddies tonight and drink a few beers and calm down and come up with a plan. 

Its like right now I cant afford just moving out - everything is tied up together in the house etc.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Random thoughts

The lowest class of cheaters are those who been though the pain of being cheated on and then do it to someone else. 

Err, why can't she sex you ? Is it because your her husband, not her lover? And yes, a online affair counts.

Try downloading an image from a site like "let me do this to you" and send it to her before lunch with
Note saying thinking of you. Include a link to the site and ask for her thoughts in the form of a pix.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

As for the not having the time, SERIOUSLY?? You actually be with her 24/7??
If not, then she has the time.

Gus, NoChoice and others have spelled her out to a tee.
I can guarantee you have no idea of what really happens in her day to day. 
You was supposed to VAR her car after the first sit down, and hasn't since.
What does that say about you NOT really wanting to find out more.
I will say further, that you really have no idea what really goes on in your marriage.
What kind of job does she have that she has to sit and decompress before facing you ?
Who does she do lunch with at this job ?
What close friends does she have at this job ?
Things any hubby should know, you don't.
In fact, right now you need to be shutting up, and thinking PI.

I'm sorry, but you just don't have it to catch her.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

JohnA said:


> Err, why can't she sex you ? Is it because your her husband, not her lover? And yes, a online affair counts.


She has in the past and recently sext me. 

After the years we been together I haven't found anything where she has sext someone else. The most damaging stuff is talking about our marriage. People feed her complements she takes them and moves the topic along to general life stuff.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

You're living in fear of conflict and she's doing these things because of your weakness. In other words, she's only doing what you allow. You realize it's your continued inaction to set firm boundaries that will escalate the conflict when the inevitable confrontation occurs. The longer you wait to put your foot down here the worse the confrontation will be. A man doesn't allow his women to chat up other men, no matter the reason. It's a matter of respectful marriage boundaries. If she doesn't get it or stop, he tells her to pound sand. Even though it may be difficult, he does this because he has confidence that he will be okay if not better off without her. 

Are you ready to change your name to 'EA go away or I do'

Best


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Do not move out !!!! 

Why when she is the one with the problem ? What you want her nailing a guy in YOUR house ? My ex wanted to and tried, Christ she was in the fog ! 

Cheating is always on the cheater. How you handle it is on you and defines you. Who are you and more importunely who do you want to be. 

It sounds as if your wife would go deep into the fog if she meant the right guy.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> You're living in fear of conflict and she's doing these things because of your weakness. In other words, she's only doing what you allow. You realize it's your continued inaction to set firm boundaries that will escalate the conflict when the inevitable confrontation occurs. A man doesn't allow his women to chat up other men, no matter the reason. It's a matter of respectful marriage boundaries. If she doesn't get it or stop, he tells her to pound sand. Even though it may be difficult, he does this because he has confidence that he will be okay if not better off without her.
> 
> Are you ready to change your name to 'EA go away or I do'
> 
> Best


101% true!!

Never fear your wife or walk on eggshells. You're toast if you do. 

People only get away with what you allow them to get away with!!!

She'll have more respect for you if you shut down what she is doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

As to talking about your marriage who others; there is a time and a place and people to talk to. A marriage is the most intimate of all relationships. She is destroying your ability to connect with her. Does she mean to destroy her marriage ? Is this a form of an exit affair for her ?????

As to her not responding to comments, why does she not respond with 'thank you, but not cool, I thought you valued me for my thoughts not for my sexuality-


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EA go away said:


> She has in the past and recently sext me.
> 
> After the years we been together I haven't found anything where she has sext someone else. The most damaging stuff is talking about our marriage. People feed her complements she takes them and moves the topic along to general life stuff.


You haven't found....this from a person who "cant" figure out how to delete things yet stuff gets deleted.

Ok so you have used the excuses, she just talks about general stuff, I just need to find evidence and now fiscally you can't afford to divorce.. if you had kids you would be telling us all you can't leave because of them.

These are all excuses to not act and denial.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

You DON"T leave your house !!! No moving out no matter what unless a lawyer say it's OK.

So do the beer thing and calm down.
We get it, you love this woman, but she has problems. Problem that affect your marriage in a bad way.
She needs IC, but refuse. So she like what she is doing

Your best bet, is to get a PI, get the goods, and make MC and IC a condition reconciling.
As it stand, you know nothing of what is really going on in her day to day.

You've gone this far, pretending a little longer may work for you. 
My worry is how closely is she watching you.
Most cheaters, have blinders on, and see only what they want to see.
You calming down, may reassure her all is her way again.
Letting your PI get the goods, or your VAR picking up something.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

You just got a promotion.
Is there room for more advancements at this job ?

Exactly how long have you been married ? If under 10 yrs. you should be good.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

Sort of summarizing my thoughts now… 
•	Kik, can delete text. I remember what I saw which was disrespectful and now it’s gone. She said it never was there - then it was there and gave a sketchy description of what was going on. Kik itself is hella shady. This whole Kik guy and ‘chats’ are based on her meeting a random guy on craiglist because she was hurt I did not want to stick around and be verbally abused another night by continuing my plans and continued friendship this for over half a year. 

•	The past conflicts – broke trust boundaries and spoke of our relationship with things and topics she did not discuss with me on our relationship. Took time away from us to chat with other men in shady context. Facetiming after work and hiding it, facetiming at home and trying to hide it. She gave basically an emotional and intellectual level of herself at least away to other men.

•	Friends when married – people are either going to be friends of the marriage or not friends of our marriage. These chat friends are not friends of our marriage. There is nothing gained from the conversation for us or our relationship. 

•	The reward benefit to her outweighs the pain it causes me. Moving from one chat ‘buddy’ to another is not and was not a solution for our past discussions, its repeating the same loop and process. That alone says a lot about the level of respect and treatment going on.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

OldWolf57 said:


> You just got a promotion.
> Is there room for more advancements at this job ?
> 
> Exactly how long have you been married ? If under 10 yrs. you should be good.


Yes a ton of room for advancement. Going on 4 years.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Then your alimony will be small to none. Depending on her pay.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

Alright - does what I posted make sense as a summary? I was originally writing a overview direction thing for the whole logic set.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Is there equity in the house. If so, buy her out, or sell if it comes to that.

As for right now, just relax. You have the time to line up exactly what, and how you want your marriage to be,
If she wants to remain married to you.

If I was you, and wanted to keep her, I would sit her down and lay out how this is NOT what you signed up for, and if she wants to remain married, MC and IC will be the least of the things SHE WILL HAVE to do.
Make sure she understands, this is NOT a debate. She gets no rebuttal, and has 1 hour to make a decision.
Make that VERY clear to her, and walk away if she starts, just repeat this is NOT a damn debate. THIS is my decision if YOU want to stay married to ME.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

EA go away said:


> Alright - does what I posted make sense as a summary? I was originally writing a overview direction thing for the whole logic set.


Yes, your summary makes sense.

Seems like you are finally seeing that all of this is just going round & round in big circles.

Sounds like each time is "different chat buddy", but is still the same circle nonetheless.

The time has come for you to make a decision, and stick with it, if you don't want this kind of marriage.
Focusing on yourself, and giving her rope to hang herself, is all part of a process to get yourself to a better situation.

But for heavens sake, don't get her pregnant.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Let us for a moment follow OldWolf's line of thinking regarding R. If she is indeed interested in staying with you, if she indeed loves you more than anything, would she not happily follow any and all guidelines that she knows would bring you peace and trust? If she cared so deeply for you would she see your demands as controlling or loving? Would she see you as domineering or as a man concerned about the validity of his marriage and as one taking the necessary steps to ensure its continued survival? Would she not want that as well?

If you have any desire at all to continue on in this marriage you must do as OldWolf and others have suggested and set some ground rules and you must be firm, perhaps more firm than you have ever been with her. She must know that you are completely serious and that there is no room for compromise concerning her interactions with other men. If you do not this will escalate as time goes on.

The truth is that no one here wants to see you D but more than that we do not want to see you played and hurt even more, hence the reason for our advice to D. Good fortune Sir.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> Let us for a moment follow OldWolf's line of thinking regarding R. If she is indeed interested in staying with you, if she indeed loves you more than anything, would she not happily follow any and all guidelines that she knows would bring you peace and trust? If she cared so deeply for you would she see your demands as controlling or loving? Would she see you as domineering or as a man concerned about the validity of his marriage and as one taking the necessary steps to ensure its continued survival? Would she not want that as well?
> 
> If you have any desire at all to continue on in this marriage you must do as OldWolf and others have suggested and set some ground rules and you must be firm, perhaps more firm than you have ever been with her. She must know that you are completely serious and that there is no room for compromise concerning her interactions with other men. If you do not this will escalate as time goes on.
> ...


This^^^
Your wife is damaged and or selfish.
Is she BPD NPD, don't know and don't care.
You get a VAR or use your smart phone to record after you file and serve her at work.
I hope your friends give you similar advice that we have been.
Do NOT tell her ahead of time and on the day of service expose to appropiate close friends and family.
It sucks but you will come out much better doing this.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She's doing what she's doing simply because she's addicted to it.

Get the two books linked to below. Go read the reviews.

She nneds to read the NOT JUST FRIENDS book and get treatment for her addiction.

She gets a huge dose just before she gets out of the car. Use a var and see what she says during her face timing there.

Her asking you about monogamy means she is thinking the next step in her addiction is cheating, swinging or an open marriage.

Counseling or divorce. Period.


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## capri7204 (Aug 16, 2012)

EA go away said:


> So my wife and I have been hitting a few rough patches and I have been quiet about it lately as I really don’t know what to do in the situation.
> 
> A bit of background (sorry long read :/):
> 
> ...


Even as a female, as I read your story many RED flags were spotted. Immediately I wondered if she ever wanted to leave modeling. It seems like she needs ALL the time that she is beautiful and needs all this attention. I wonder if she never really wanted to leave the modeling.

Again, this is all just my opinion and I am not implying that this is the way it is but, sounds to me like before your met her she was probably always feeling depressed and had some esteem issues as well. By no means am I making excuses for her behavior!! Before I got on medication for depression, I was never happy about anything and I was happy one minute and irate with my husband the next.

After getting on meds I am a DIFFERENT person and am happier. Of course even with meds if she is feeling like she should have never left modeling then she is obsessed with it and you have a problem. 

Just recently as a matter of fact I created a post where I was reaching out to other TAM members for their imput because I almost thought about finding another man that was married and going through the same situation as me. I explained to everyone that the lack of sex in my marriage and the numerous times talking to my husband about me needing more intimacy from him,needing to feel wanted and him just making a ****ty effort to make the situation better (then gradually we returned to the same thing.) 

I placed an ad on another site to meet someone and had it on for 3 days,became ashamed of myself for doing it and just recently confronted him about what I did,made him see just how serious things were getting. We are spending more time together, more sex,(he suffers from ED. 

The reason I said all that was I wanted everyone to have an understanding of where I was coming from. I knew that what I was attempiing to do was sooooo wrong and soooo NOT me. 

Her behavior is OUT right WRONG!!!! She should not be chatting with these guys, whether online or face time and you only go on Craigs list for one reason in my opinion and it sure isn't to talk!!!! She is being continiuosly disrespectful to you and your relationship and if she gives a **** about saving it, she needs to seek therapy, and get some treatment for her depression.

By what I read you care about her or you would not have stuck around and you want to be with her and do things. I would not tolerate the texts and the attitude that you cannot tell me who to be friends with. Yeah, you can if it's causing trouble in the relationship. I have been married for 15 years and me and husband enjoy being together and doing things. Our problem was more about lack of sex and feeling desired in my part.

You on the other hand need to stop sweeping things under the rug because it is NOT going to stop. Apparently,she does not feel like what she is doing is wrong. Let me tell ya if the shoe were on the other foot SHE would NOT like it one bit if you turned around and started getting texts from beautiful women and gave her the same lame ass excuses she's giving you she would have a problem!!!

She needs to fix her depression issues and if she doesn't want to there is NOT a thing you can do about it. Trust me I refused meds for a long time and finally my hubby made me see reason (granted it took a few years) but, we love each other and he stuck it through. She has to WANT to save this relationship. It does not seem to be the case. If her husband CHEATED on her and I am sure she was really hurt, why the hell is she not seeing that her behavior is a form of cheating. Did she not learn about how ****ty that felt for her???

DO NOT have kids with this woman. I am in agreement with other members. Bringing a child in to this world under these conditions is not being smart and setting that child up for pontential problems down the road. Seems to me like you in a repetative cycle and it's time you give her an ultimatum. Seek outside help like counseling and therapy for medication or be prepared to get out now.

BTW, I fessed up to hubby and he was quite upset!!!! I am not making excuses for my behaviorr, what I did was wrong!! But,the difference here is that I know it was wrong and I changed the behavior and we are working towards a more positive journey. with your wife it does not feel like she wants to see what she is doing is wrong. 

You are allowing her to trample on your self-esteem. I am sorry if I babbled a lot!! I sure do wish you all the luck that you find the answers that you are seeking. Once you know that you have exhausted all the possibilities of fixing this trust me you'll be able to walk away from the marriage knowing you did your best, after all that's all we can do!!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Do you really want to deal with her for 18 years plus because you have a kid with her and watch her go through 6 or 7 men in the process?
Please think about that.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

EA go away said:


> Thats the main thing thats making me hold on to what we hav :/


Your "woman" repeatedly talks to other men. Sometimes right in front of you. You're sharing her, and she's repeatedly disrespecting you.

What is it exactly that you are holding on to, because another man will surely be holding on to it too.

Read No More Mr Nice Guy and stop being a doormat.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

EA go away said:


> A few weeks after this my work was having an external event and everyone was invited. My wife went out and bought new clothing for it and was really excited for this dressed up event at a really impressive venue. She wanted to be my arm candy as she put it and was really excited.
> 
> The day of the event she had a depression streak. I needed to go to the event as I lined everything up with co-workers and bosses for it. I stayed with her and she started saying how the world sucks, our marriage sucks and going into further depression and yelling at me and our relationship and divorce and killing herself and everything else under the sun. She eventually told me fine just go and I left for the event as I felt I was doing what I needed to do. I also felt I was taking a bit of a stand for myself because this was only going to be negative with me staying home and she was constantly cutting into me and our relationship verbally. The moment I got to the venue she sent me multiple texts she hates me, I am the worst person in the world. After glancing at it – I didn’t want to ruin my evening further and ignored my phone. When I got home I found myself locked out. We exchanged a series of texts and she was basically along the lines of because I didn’t support her in her time of need I don’t deserve to come home. She continued to say she hated me and us. After an hour of exchanging very hateful words via text I eventually went and crashed at a friends place.
> 
> ...


Interesting bit right here. The jaded me wonders, who was attending and what they may say to you at this event. While I get the depression and esteem issues, it seems mighty convenient to me. She is so suicidally depressed, she places a craigslist ad and makes a new friend....? 

Sorry, too convenient for me.

What I see, is a woman who knows how too punish and manipulate her man to get what she wants.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Look, you created this monster. The minuet you saw her chatting away with some guy for a ego boost is when you should have shut it down hard. If she told you that your controlling, you should have let her know that she's your wife and has no business talking with random guys and you should have let her know that if it happens again then some serious choices will have to be made. In other word let her know in a way she understands that you wont put up with it.

The problem is you chose to look the other way and when she gets all pissed and reads the riot act to you, your reaction is to let her get away with it to keep the peace. So let me ask you, how much peace are you getting?

Let her know that this crap stops now and if she gives you any grief over it, let her know that if she isn't happy about it then she can chat up with the entire U.S. army but do it from her own place but you wont have it in your home. 

Good luck though because you let this go on for so long that it's going to be damn near impossible breaking her habit.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

For the love of god man, divorce her, now.

Seriously.


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## CTPlay (Apr 26, 2015)

I know how you feel. I was there. I know about the fear and the whole financial situation and the reasons why divorce would break you. 

You can sit here and meander while the forum drives you to act. All that fear you have is blinding you to the woman who has you completely tied up emotionally. 

In my case I didn't gain clarity until I basically made the decision to drop her and avoid talking to her. 

I bet you have doubts. Doubts about leaving your life. These don't go away overnight. These doubts are powerful. 

In your haze of pain and confusion, ask yourself if you had a son or daughter married to a person like this, would you encourage them to stay? Would you encourage them to live the life you are living? Damn the fantasy idea that marriage is some perfect, eternal institution. It's not. Abuse negates marriage. Period. 

If you wouldn't want your daughter married to a narcissist like you wife. 

Step 1) tell everyone. **** your ego and embarrassment. It's an illusion. 
Step 2) gather your support. 
Step 3) retain a lawyer. This is the step that forces you down the path. This is where you get committed to the cause of removing the cancers from your life. 

Make the call. The pain and confusion will only end once you've freed yourself from her emotional abuse. Get serious. Do it now.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

EA go away said:


> Do I say we need to talk again - state my emotions again about the situation and we go through the loop all over? Lay down boundaries and if she doesn't agree its done?


Here's the way it works in the good old USA and many other places. A beautiful woman can get away with murder. But to get to my point, why do you rationalize this type of behavior? Every time she does something to screw you around, you call it everything but what it really is....A woman that wants you a hell of a lot less than you want her. She already throws out the D word when you object.
A lot of folks on here are telling you to stop putting up with her guy friends. More importantly, if she thought you were the cats pajamas she wouldn't be spending "facetime" with these cats to begin with. In reality there's not a lot you can do to stop her from needing the attention of other guys. You're just going to have to figure out how far down the totem pole you're willing to be placed before you say she ain't worth it. 
You're caught tween a rock and a hard place my man. If you say you're uncomfortable with it, you appear insecure. If you say nothing, it goes on. Personally, I don't think you've got a lot to lose by drawing a line in the sand and the next time she mentions "insecure" or "divorce" tell her you're having a problem being married to a women that needs to chat with other men.


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

Most urgent on your to do list: Find help to tackle your non-existent self esteem. Reading this thread is hurtful.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Damn, went tanking a few hrs, and you guys saw right thru her and him.

My man, you have lost so many sht test over the yrs., that she think she can do as she wants.

I really can't say if she's gone PA, but from your words, hard to believe she has not.

She play the insecure card, but is so low in self esteem and insecure she needs others to validate her, but NOT you. As you have less value to her, "she already has you".
She throw out the D words, you fold. Sht test=FAILED !!!
You go to work do, she refuse,,, why now all of a sudden ??? BUT, you go,, now you come home to a predator that's LOCAL. Sht test=fail

Are you finally seeing the way she escalates ?

So I repeat, you don't even know half of what her day entails.

AND, if you have been so behind this far, what the hell do you think she will do, and continue to do to you, without you knowing all ???
Hell, YOU can't even trust the words out of her mouth, you already know they will be cutting you down.

Just get the hell out and be glad you rode her, but long term, you know she's not worth the price.


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## CTPlay (Apr 26, 2015)

intheory said:


> Such great advice, especially in that first paragraph. When we can't do the best thing for ourselves; imagining a loved one in the same situation can suddenly help us to see the circumstances clearly - strange, isn't it?
> 
> I think CTPlay meant to say "son" in the second paragraph?? Bu,t once again, great advice.


Actually I meant daughter. OP, just imagine if your daughter was involved with a man who constantly approached other married women. 

And thank you intheory.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Gosh. When your wife matures beyond 14 years of age, she could make a reasonably good wife. 

But not until.

She needs counselling because there is something badly broken that needs repairing.

Was she abused, sexually or emotionally as a child?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Your wife is acting like a child. She is using all these EAs to bolster her self esteem. She is blaming you for when she does wrong. She puts the blame on you when you try to point out her errors.

There is something wrong with her. She needs therapy to find what is going on in her head. That being said, she is not going to agree to an analyst. It's suits her better to blame you for not accepting her the way she is. She needs other men to tell her all the things she wants to hear. She is who she is. 

You have to decide what is in your best interest. Can you continue to live with her and her constant need for attention from other men? Can you continue to love her, knowing this?

Please do not get her pregnant, until you figure out the above. Go see your lawyer and get some advice. Maybe some IC for you. Goood luck.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Kik does not delete messages. Already with Android they are stored in a SQLite database with a 'can delete' bit flipped so that when the phone needs space it purges them.

I believe it can be recovered on an iPhone in a similar manner.

So just tell her 'you know I really want to trust you, I have some great news! I have some software that can recovered deleted Kik messages. Thanks heavens once I run it we can move on. Awesome huh?!'

You will not need to run the software, her reaction will tell you all you need to know


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

EA go away said:


> She would do all sorts of modeling shoots and some artistic nudes, but they were always done on a professional level. She enjoyed the attention as it boosted her ego and helped with some emotional issues for her.


 As you saw later with the other photographer that you we going to allow your wife to pose for, other men that have the hots for your wife, will use "artistic" reasons to exploit the situation with your wife. 



EA go away said:


> She said I cannot control who she can and cannot be friends with and I agreed


 You may not be able to control her, but normal marital boundaries are suppose to do that. Many couples have marital boundaries that exclude opposite sex friends ("OSF"). Couples that do allow for OSF, have boundaries that exclude exs or anyone that gets inappropriate with their spouse; these boundaries also require that the OSF be a friend of the marriage. You problem is you wife is telling you to your face that she wants no boundaries in the marriage and you are agreeing with that. She even had a guy trying to have sex with her to the point of debating why it was OK to cheat with him because monogamy did not make sense, and you sat there and did nothing. 



EA go away said:


> She said I am one of the worst people in the world for snooping accidentally. She also went off how I never have anything to worry about and now she feels hurt I approached her about this. She discussed how I potentially have an inferiority complex and I am projecting it on her as being needy and untrusting. She asked if I want a divorce to which I said no I want to work this out.





EA go away said:


> Things got weird again and she then stated how I don’t trust her again. She said I don’t have self confidence in myself or our relationship. Again she started asking if I want a divorce etc and I am blowing things out of proportion as obviously things would never get physical and this was just added entertainment to her.


When you catch her being inappropriate with other men, she attacks you and you back down when she tells you that you can divorce her if you do not like it but that she will not stop. I bet if you call her first husband you will find out that the cheater was her and not him.

She is looking for you to be a cuckold, and so far you are playing along.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I bet if you talked to her ex husband you might find a different story then the one she told you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

convert said:


> I bet if you talked to her ex husband you might find a different story then the one she told you.


Unless this time she thinks she'll get the cheating in first?


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

OP, it's pretty obvious from what you've told us that your wife has no respect for you and, without her respect, there is nothing you can do to fix your marriage.

If you continue to put up with her shenanigans, will she eventually come to respect you? Well, will pigs eventually start to fly?

Could you regain her respect? Possibly, but it would consistent, strong behavior on your part and, frankly, you don't seem like the kind of guy who could do this.

So, there seems no escaping the fact that the two of you will eventually divorce. What you get to decide is when and how:

- If you file soon, you can minimize the emotional and financial pain.

- If you wait a few years, and eventually catch her cheating physically or simply get to the point that you can't stand her disrespect anymore, divorce will be more painful -- because you will have made an even greater emotional investment in your marriage -- and more costly -- because you will be making more money and she will be entitled to more alimony.

- Or you can stay with her for the long haul. In this case, she will eventually dump you, probably after popping out a kid or two whom you will have to support for 20 years while paying her a lot of alimony and giving her half of your savings and retirement benefits. Worst of all, once you have kids together, you will never be entirely free of her since you will always be connected via your children.

When you look at it this way, it seems pretty obvious to me what you need to do. But, it's your life and the choice is yours.

There's really not much more to be said about your situation. Good luck.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Was she abused, sexually or emotionally as a child?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes - her bio father messed with her and her mother to the point of ptsd. She's had mixed relationships and then married a military guy that got someone else preg in rehab (from what i know).

So update over the weekend - We talked things out more, I cleared my head with some buddies. The SMSing stopped (at least around me) but I know its probably going to be the same thing that has happened all before with this giant loop every 6+ months or so. 

My eyes are open now and the trust and boundaries have been broken repeatedly. 

I know her line of work and where she works and its a 110% high stress devoted job and everyone there is friends with me also. Nearly all employees are female. All her time outside of work is ether spent home or hanging out with me. 

Outside looking in it is easy to jump to conclusions - but I got myself in a odd situation. She loves attention and almost needs it to survive with the way she built herself mentally over time. 

At this point I am numb and I don't know what I really want. I basically married two people. My logical side is basically saying - catch again and done because right now I am sitting on a whole lot of no facts. Emotional side I am between everything and want to blow the hell up and gtfo - liquidate assets and start new. 

I been reading no more mr nice guy more and yeah... that's me. I always try to fix situations when I need to learn to walk away.


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## EA go away (Aug 1, 2015)

TRy said:


> You may not be able to control her, but normal marital boundaries are suppose to do that. Many couples have marital boundaries that exclude opposite sex friends ("OSF"). Couples that do allow for OSF, have boundaries that exclude exs or anyone that gets inappropriate with their spouse; these boundaries also require that the OSF be a friend of the marriage. You problem is you wife is telling you to your face that she wants no boundaries in the marriage and you are agreeing with that. She even had a guy trying to have sex with her to the point of debating why it was OK to cheat with him because monogamy did not make sense, and you sat there and did nothing.


With that - no she was agreeing with my thoughts and debating it to the point of "Hey dude, you don't get someone pregnant and then complain about monogamy and then she went into how great monogamy is.


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## itbeme (May 2, 2015)

come on!! Back track, take a breath, think. She turned it around, of course she agreed w/you at that moment, she IMO is messing w/your head. I know you are giving the condensed version but still, you know what you saw, you know what you've been living through, you know this will continue until the proverbial fat lady sings. Without help this will not be fixed, the marriage, her or you. See if the both of you can get into IC for a bit to balance then MC and if needed IC also. Good luck and God bless.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Look, here's the thing. Your wife has been having EA's, and you have been enabling her.

I feel for her because of her past, but to have a strong marriage, you as the husband have to lead.
Ok, I take from your words you're not going anywhere yet, but it's past time you stop coddling, and start leading.

You're reading NMMNG, but also get her to read "Not Just Friends".

Bottom line, YOU have to lead her into rebuilding herself, and your marriage.


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## capri7204 (Aug 16, 2012)

I read every comment but, I may have overlooked the answer. Has she ever had IC or have both gone to MC?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

EA go away said:


> With that - no she was agreeing with my thoughts and debating it to the point of "Hey dude, you don't get someone pregnant and then comtlain about monogamy and then she went into how great monogamy is.


You are missing his point.

TRy is responding to what you wrote here. 



EA go away said:


> While we were hanging out after a long work day for us both, she starts asking me about how I feel about monogamy. I say I find it to be really the pinnacle of connection with someone in a relationship. She then starts to talk about human nature and cheaters. I told her I don’t believe cheaters are normal people – I strongly feel that they have an innate internal problem where they reach out for self-validation. This causes a dopamine effect much like an addict. They get a rush from this and feel they have to repeat the process to feel normal. I then went into how this is sort of like recovering addicts – they are never the same person as they know there is this chemical rush reward mechanism right around the corner they can reach out to and it’s always a monkey on their back.
> *
> She ended up getting quiet in this discussion and went back to her phone. She then says she was discussing this topic with her friend online and she was agreeing with me.*
> 
> ...


Your wife is having sexual discussions with various men. No, it doesn't matter which side she is taking, her alleged indifference or changing of the topic. 




TRy said:


> She even had a guy trying to have sex with her to the point of debating why it was OK to cheat with him because monogamy did not make sense, and you sat there and did nothing.


TRy is showing you what the guy is doing and explaining how wrong your wife's actions are in this situation. It is not what she wrote in front of you, even if she agrees with your position. It is the FACT you didn't lose your mind, when a guy was actively trying to get your wife to cheat and she continued to participate in the discussion with you next to her.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> TRy is showing you what the guy is doing and explaining how wrong your wife's actions are in this situation. It is not what she wrote in front of you, even if she agrees with your position. It is the FACT you didn't lose your mind, when a guy was actively trying to get your wife to cheat and she continued to participate in the discussion with you next to her.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:
You saved me the effort of having to type this.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Your info on her discussing monogamy reminded me of an old joke from the 50's In short form;

Two guys are roommates one has a new women every week, the other still a virgin. So the virgin asks him his secret. He replies: he points out the white circle he has painted on the hood of his car, he takes them to dinner, goes to park, they get nervous so comment on the white circle, he starts a conversation about purity what it truly is, and then wham bang,

So the virgin paints a white circle on his hood, takes a girl to dinner and parks his car. Sure enough the girl comments on the circle and he respond "want to ......"

Her friend is a vet POSM. You handled it perfectly. Look she has a monkey on her back and if you stay with her it is also on yours. If you stay what is the game plan ?


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

You are not in an open relationship. 

Immediate No Contact
Full Translarency

Or 

divorce and find someone who is happy to be with you.

Do not rug sweep and make excuses for her, she is doing a good enough job of that on her own.


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