# The Reckoning



## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm from the Mountains, I guess I'm what you might call a "HillBilly". I remember my Grandmother singing this song:George Jones - "Lonesome Valley" - YouTube. 
It seems to me that whether you reconcile or divorce, everybody involved in infidelity has to face the same reckoning. BS and WS alike. 
Let me tell you about my Sweetheart.
After her affair was revealed, she began therapy. I talked to her therapist and she said that the first things my Sweetie said to her was 'What is wrong with me? How could I do this to my love?" "Why am I so evil and selfish"? She NEVER blamed me for a single thing, and even refused to discuss any of the marital issues we had, if it cast any blame on me. The courage it took and still takes for her to face her reckoning is the single main reason I' so in love with her, today.
I have to face my reckoning too. I look back on my past mistakes and foolishness, and hope, by facing them, to make a brighter future for both of us.
We are walking our lonesome valley, my sweetie and I, only....together, it's not so lonesome.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You deserve each other.
Usually, when I say this to someone I say it sarcastically. This may be the first time I say it without sarcasm.

You two truly deserve each other.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> You deserve each other.
> Usually, when I say this to someone I say it sarcastically. This may be the first time I say it without sarcasm.
> 
> You two truly deserve each other.


Thank you, Walkonmars, I will take that as a positive.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Rookie, I love to read your posts. I always feel so good afterwards. Please keep posting.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

We all have to face our demons sooner or latter.

Sounds like both you and your Ex have traveled a long road to come back together.

Good luck.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I remember your first thread very, very clearly. It was an amazing thing to witness the tide turning as you gradually showed more of your heart and we gradually understood the depth of your ex-wife's remorse and rehabilitation. By now, you two are really a story of redemption and forgiveness. This is too rare, in my opinion. I wish you both the best.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I think that what we are doing together now, has much more value to each of us than we could ever have imagined. Sweetie told me yesterday that she is happier than she has been in several years. Plus it's a whole lot easier to work on a relationship when both of you are on the same page. We are on the same word, let alone, page.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

My father had a wonderful singing voice and he used to walk around the house singing "The Second Time Around." The refrain was, 'Love is lovelier, the second time around, just as wonderful, with both feet on the ground."

My mother used to joke about my father hoping for his second wife & he would say that the second, third, fourth time would always be with her because she was the only love of his life. And this was true. She was.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Fantastic Rookie4!

It takes a lot of courage to face your own mistakes. You and your wife obviously have what it takes.

You should write a book on how you handled this.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Hmm...this is the same woman who said your "tool" was smaller than the OM's, right? And having sex with him is akin to eating steak after tasting only the hamburger that is you for decades? And coming back to you after things didn't work out when Brad only wanted to bang her for a month and then tossed her aside? Or was it that she left after she realized this?

It's good that you are you into reconciling but boy do people sure have selective memories, huh? 

The past made us who are today. And it is the best determinant of our future.

But I gotta hand it to you for taking your wife back all that she said and did. I know I never could.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Some people should read the whole back story instead of jumping this way.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Some people should read the whole back story instead of jumping this way.


I have. I've never chimed in once to a thread without reading all the pertinent posts. I've also posted in his previous thread before.

I know how his mother in law and her therapist now evidently - two people who have her best interests at heart say great things about her - how surprising...

And her "remorse" and his "fun" with other women after the divorce to get back his shattered self-esteem.

And know you know what? That takes away nothing from my earlier post. 

His gushing comments about the behavior of this woman now have to be taken in perspective to the woman she was before.

Some people don't deserve forgiveness in life. Maybe from God but certainly not from others.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

JamesKemp, I really don't mind your posts at all. What I DO mind is your condescending, patronizing attitude. Who do you think is a better judge of my ex-wife's behavior, then and now. You, who are simply a few words on a computer screen , or me who have seen my ex-wife at her worst and at her best? I KNOW how she is behaving now, I KNEW how she was behaving then. You obviousely think I'm a chump. So be it, I'm a chump, but I'm probably having a LOT more fun than you are , and am enjoying myself immensely. So why don't you take a pill or something.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> JamesKemp, I really don't mind your posts at all. What I DO mind is your condescending, patronizing attitude. Who do you think is a better judge of my ex-wife's behavior, then and now. You, who are simply a few words on a computer screen , or me who have seen my ex-wife at her worst and at her best? I KNOW how she is behaving now, I KNEW how she was behaving then. You obviousely think I'm a chump. So be it, I'm a chump, but I'm probably having a LOT more fun than you are , and am enjoying myself immensely. So why don't you take a pill or something.


Condescending? No. I can actually learn a lot from you.

I tend to sever ties permanently with people who have wronged me like this because their face is a constant reminder of their actions. How do you deal with the triggers? Justifying it with she said it because she was angry and didn't mean it doesn't really seem to work for me because I believe the most hurtful things we say when we are angry contain some of our truest feelings.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

I think James raises a fair point - but Rookie is the man on the ground, and he sees far more than we do, and gets the full history, the nuances, etc.

The best we can get, here on TAM, is the 2D, edited, condensed subtlitled version, not the full 24h 3D full sensory edition. So we don't know.

Rookie knows where he's been, and where he's going now, and where he is now is a better place than where he was, even if he had to eade though a swamp not of his making to get there.

And he knows that things can be said in guilt and anger (aften at oneself) that aren't meant and are deeply and eternally regretted.

We all make mistakes - some greater than others - and I hope I'm never in Rookie's position. But if I am, I hope I have half the sense and maturity he's shown in getting through it - with self esteem, family, and life intact, and the prospect of a better relationship than his his ex-wife destroyed.

And I do see your point, James. Who can take that risk of being hurt, having been hurt before? Only someone who knows the potential rewards that can come from taking those risks.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

The way I look at it - in some cases the transformation of a WS before and during their affair is so radical that it can almost be viewed as a form of mental illness. That is the "fog". Now a person must have the propensity to cheat in order to take that first step which leads to the fog but I do believe that some WS can truly "snap out of it". So it's like any other illness - for example: alcoholism. You can choose to stay and help your spouse work through this or you can walk away. Note - I am saying SOME cases, not all. 

A lot of people may think that this gives the WS a way out - an excuse for their behaviour. Every case is different and it's up to the BS to decide, since they are dealing with it on a day to day basis and they know their spouse better than anybody.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> Condescending? No. I can actually learn a lot from you.
> 
> I tend to sever ties permanently with people who have wronged me like this because their face is a constant reminder of their actions. How do you deal with the triggers? Justifying it with she said it because she was angry and didn't mean it doesn't really seem to work for me because I believe the most hurtful things we say when we are angry contain some of our truest feelings.


JamesKemp, Your insinuations that I am somehow being dupped, the unwitting victim of some vast conspiracy, are indeed condescending. Stating that not only my ex-wife , but my ex mother-in-law, and my wife's therapist (and incidentally the therapist's supervisor) are all liars.
My ex MIL is a highly respected educator (HS principal, Church Administrator, Officer , past and present in many Civic and charitable organizations), who also was the first person to advise me that divorce might be my best option.
My ex wife's therapist is also very highly thought of and has written articles (some of which probably have been read by posters on TAM) concerning infidelity and marriage recovery, and has a reputation for integrity that is known state-wide. That these people are deliberately decieving me and risking their personal and possibly professional reputations, in order that I be convinced of my ex wif'es sincerity and remorse, is preposterous.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> JamesKemp, Your insinuations that I am somehow being dupped, the unwitting victim of some vast conspiracy, are indeed condescending. Stating that not only my ex-wife , but my ex mother-in-law, and my wife's therapist (and incidentally the therapist's supervisor) are all liars.
> My ex MIL is a highly respected educator (HS principal, Church Administrator, Officer , past and present in many Civic and charitable organizations), who also was the first person to advise me that divorce might be my best option.
> My ex wife's therapist is also very highly thought of and has written articles (some of which probably have been read by posters on TAM) concerning infidelity and marriage recovery, and has a reputation for integrity that is known state-wide. That these people are deliberately decieving me and risking their personal and possibly professional reputations, in order that I be convinced of my ex wif'es sincerity and remorse, is preposterous.


Not really that preposterous. The source of the information is a lot more important than the content of that information. 

That is why say...the NY Times or a Peer Reviewed Science Journal Article is held in a much higher regard than say the NY Post or an non-peer reviewed academic journal.

In your case, your two sources of information are highly BIASED. Your wife's MOTHER and her PERSONAL therapist are looking out for her best interests, not yours. And of course she advised you to divorce. Your wife wasn't coming back to you until after her trial run failed.

Sorry, that is the way I view it. I don't mean to offend you but my logic is there. 

Not preposterous.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> JamesKemp, Your insinuations that I am somehow being dupped, the unwitting victim of some vast conspiracy, are indeed condescending. Stating that not only my ex-wife , but my ex mother-in-law, and my wife's therapist (and incidentally the therapist's supervisor) are all liars.


I don't see him being or acting superior to you in any way. That would be condescension. Now, is he making a bunch of assumptions; sure. Everyone reading your THREADS, or any thread for that matter, can only process the information you write.

Yes, only you know what is going on. Still, there are plenty of stories of MILs, Therapists and family conspiring or being willfully ignorant to the determent of the BS.

I hope everything works and glad you are defending your spouse and family.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I highly doubt even the thougher vets here believe Rookie isn't making a sound decision reconciling with XW.
Now... once he made that decision and happy for it, based on two years of consistent, coherent, remorseful, changing behavior only to point out in the most crude fashion the hot bottoms of the immediate aftermath doesn't make sense to me. At all.
Don't get it. I don't imagine how it can be done out of care.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Ok, James Kimp, you are right and everybody else is wrong.  You are smarter than all of the rest of us, so there is no sense in your continued participation here, is there?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Ok, James Kimp, you are right and everybody else is wrong. You are smarter than all of the rest of us, so there is no sense in your continued participation here, is there?


Don't let it bother you rookie. Those of us who have followed your posts all through various threads have a good picture of everything. You know what you're doing and your sweetie is maybe the most remorseful fWS I and others have ever heard of. You got this.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

bfree said:


> Don't let it bother you rookie. Those of us who have followed your posts all through various threads have a good picture of everything. You know what you're doing and your sweetie is maybe the most remorseful fWS I and others have ever heard of. You got this.


Thanks, bfree. I really don't know why some posters seem to want to start some sh*t. There is nothing that James Kimp said that I'm not already aware of, and he seems to think that I'm not in control of my own situation and need or want his vast experience and guidance. I wish posters would think before they post.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

This thread was SUPPOSED to be about how BS's and WS's face their reckoning (responsibilities). Because of JamesKimp's threadjack, it has derailed the thread to issues already dealt with, and discussed. I have nothing against JameKimp, but he needs to stay on topic.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Every corner you find people you can learn from and keep growing.
Thanks Rookie4.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Acabado said:


> I highly doubt even the thougher vets here believe Rookie isn't making a sound decision reconciling with XW.
> Now... once he made that decision and happy for it, based on two years of consistent, coherent, remorseful, changing behavior only to point out in the most crude fashion the hot bottoms of the immediate aftermath doesn't make sense to me. At all.
> Don't get it. I don't imagine how it can be done out of care.


Hmm...interesting, 2 years you say? She destroyed 25 years of marriage and now you're saying two years is significant. THAT doesn't make sense to me.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> This thread was SUPPOSED to be about how BS's and WS's face their reckoning (responsibilities). Because of JamesKimp's threadjack, it has derailed the thread to issues already dealt with, and discussed. I have nothing against JameKimp, but he needs to stay on topic.


Funny, I don't remember you asking that anywhere on this thread until now. All I saw was you gushing about how you took back your cheating wife and times were sunny and I chimed in. I think my responses were all very relevant.

Don't attack me because I don't conform to the way you want to see your world now. Everyone has a different opinion, that's what you came here you for, isn't it? I never said you should leave your wife but given your situation, I'd never have stayed.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> I never said you should leave your wife but given your situation, I'd never have stayed.


I thought Rookie4 DID leave his wife. Divorced her, in fact. So he didn't stay. He chose to come back after his wife had her "reckoning". That's a big difference than saying "I'd never have stayed".

I like the point of this thread, which I thought was owning up and taking accountability for actions and then working to make things right. 

EVERY situation is different so to make a blanket statement like "I'd never have stayed" misses the point. There's no one cut solution for reconciliation even though many WS follow a very predictable script while cheating.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> Funny, I don't remember you asking that anywhere on this thread until now. All I saw was you gushing about how you took back your cheating wife and times were sunny and I chimed in. I think my responses were all very relevant.
> 
> Don't attack me because I don't conform to the way you want to see your world now. Everyone has a different opinion, that's what you came here you for, isn't it? I never said you should leave your wife but given your situation, I'd never have stayed.


Friend, you're responding without knowing all (any) the details. Rookie had no intentions of taking his wife back. He had moved on and was in several other relationships after his divorce. It was only after his ex wife had a reckoning and subsequently two years of therapy that he even began to think of her in a more friendly manner. It was only after interacting with her several times that he even started to think about her in a positive light. It was only after getting together with her for a few dates and seeing how much she had changed that he even thought about opening his heart to her once again. And even after all that it wasn't until he spoke to her counselor, friends, coworkers, etc that he decided to start believing that it was indeed true. Maybe you are a person that cuts someone out of his life once that person has done anything unsavory but there are many who choose to keep an open mind and realistically look at a person and recognize the changes than can take place. Maybe you would advocate the death penalty for everything from murder to jaywalking but others take a more tempered viewpoint. I don't know your situation but I do know rookie's and believe me he has truly taken his time when evaluating his ex wife and I'm sure he's going to consider each step carefully as he goes down this path.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> Funny, I don't remember you asking that anywhere on this thread until now. All I saw was you gushing about how you took back your cheating wife and times were sunny and I chimed in. I think my responses were all very relevant.
> 
> Don't attack me because I don't conform to the way you want to see your world now. Everyone has a different opinion, that's what you came here you for, isn't it? I never said you should leave your wife but given your situation, I'd never have stayed.


Dude, Did you read the TITLE of the thread? Did you read the first post? It was about she and I facing our reckoning (responsibility) . What do your posts have to do with that? I don't care what you think about my situation, but this is your final warning. Your next post had better be about personal responsibility and facing your demons, or I will ask the moderators to get you off my thread. You have done nothing constructive. STAY ON TOPIC OR LEAVE!!!


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

bfree, thanks for the vote of confidence.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Every corner you find people you can learn from and keep growing.
> Thanks Rookie4.


Don't thank me , Companero, I'm learning as I go, same as everybody. But I don't see how ANYBODY, BS or WS alike, can truly reconcile or even divorce and recover, without facing the issues that each of them has, which caused the marriage to go bad. I didn't cause my ex wife to cheat, but I did my share in making our marriage a sh*tty one.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

C-man said:


> I thought Rookie4 DID leave his wife. Divorced her, in fact. So he didn't stay. He chose to come back after his wife had her "reckoning". That's a big difference than saying "I'd never have stayed".
> 
> I like the point of this thread, which I thought was owning up and taking accountability for actions and then working to make things right.
> 
> EVERY situation is different so to make a blanket statement like "I'd never have stayed" misses the point. There's no one cut solution for reconciliation even though many WS follow a very predictable script while cheating.


Thanks, C-Man, but I'm afraid that JamesKimp only sees what he wants to see,or hears what he wants to hear. If he had actually read my posts he would know my situation better than he does.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

bfree said:


> Friend, you're responding without knowing all (any) the details. Rookie had no intentions of taking his wife back. He had moved on and was in several other relationships after his divorce. It was only after his ex wife had a reckoning and subsequently two years of therapy that he even began to think of her in a more friendly manner. It was only after interacting with her several times that he even started to think about her in a positive light. It was only after getting together with her for a few dates and seeing how much she had changed that he even thought about opening his heart to her once again. And even after all that it wasn't until he spoke to her counselor, friends, coworkers, etc that he decided to start believing that it was indeed true. Maybe you are a person that cuts someone out of his life once that person has done anything unsavory but there are many who choose to keep an open mind and realistically look at a person and recognize the changes than can take place. Maybe you would advocate the death penalty for everything from murder to jaywalking but others take a more tempered viewpoint. I don't know your situation but I do know rookie's and believe me he has truly taken his time when evaluating his ex wife and I'm sure he's going to consider each step carefully as he goes down this path.


Classic slippery slope fallacy of equating being stern on a very specific group of people (adulterers) to advocating to death penalty for jaywalkers. I'm actually against the death penalty btw.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

C-man said:


> I thought Rookie4 DID leave his wife. Divorced her, in fact. So he didn't stay. He chose to come back after his wife had her "reckoning". That's a big difference than saying "I'd never have stayed".
> 
> I like the point of this thread, which I thought was owning up and taking accountability for actions and then working to make things right.
> 
> EVERY situation is different so to make a blanket statement like "I'd never have stayed" misses the point. There's no one cut solution for reconciliation even though many WS follow a very predictable script while cheating.


What she did was akin to murdering the marriage and what's dead can't be resurrected. And, of course I know that he divorced...I'd have to read the 1 post on his main thread to see that.

What does my 2nd post on this thread reference...uhhhh...the divorce. Don't even try to attack my credibility in this way.

My syntax was a bit off, in that what I was trying to express was that in his current position, I would never stay.

Anyways, no use in arguing with a man who chooses to attack you instead of defending his position respectfully.

What I found most ironic and actually funny is his bragging of the wife who insulted his manhood in the worst way possible. Good luck with the triggers buddy. Who needs the past. Ignorance is bliss right?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Wish you continued healing jameskimp.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> What I found most ironic and actually funny is his bragging of the wife who insulted his manhood in the worst way possible. Good luck with the triggers buddy. Who needs the past. Ignorance is bliss right?


You just lost any credibility with this post. You are now attacking the OP for taking his wife back. You had a few valid points but the bitterness was seeping through and now it is finally all out.

His manhood does not depends on his wife's insults or feelings. it is his own just like you own yours. he need not convince anything to anyone.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> Classic slippery slope fallacy of equating being stern on a very specific group of people (adulterers) to advocating to death penalty for jaywalkers. I'm actually against the death penalty btw.


I see. You're one of those. Once anyone crosses *The Skimpster* its all she wrote. Death to the marriage....death to the cheater....I'm a badda$$.

Ok. Whatever. You act however you want while those of us that actually walked the walk will now talk the talk....with authenticity.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You just lost any credibility with this post. You are now attacking the OP for taking his wife back. You had a few valid points but the bitterness was seeping through and now it is finally all out.
> 
> His manhood does not depends on his wife's insults or feelings. it is his own just like you own yours. he need not convince anything to anyone.


Newton discovered gravitional force and created the law of motion. But he also said that the universe had no speed that is until Einstein came and found that limit - light. Does that discredit all of Newton's previous work? No. So your first point is moot. 

Secondly, I didn't say his manhood is dictated by his wife. I would not stay with someone that verbally abused it in that way just as someone should not stay in an emotionally abusive relationship.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

This thread is plagued by circular arguing so this will be last post on here.

First, reconciliation is possible. For me, it would be an EA and a PA under extraordinary circumferences. Children will complicate matters.

Second, I would never reconcile with a woman that leaves me to be a sex toy for another man and the comes back to me, her plan B, when things go sour.

Lastly, I may come off as bitter but I am a very straight shooter. Adultery is not a complex issue. They cheated when they could have left if the marriage was bad. No justification for that. 

Life is way too short and there are way too many options out there to tough it out with a cheater.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> This thread is plagued by circular arguing so this will be last post on here.
> 
> First, reconciliation is possible. For me, it would be an EA and a PA under extraordinary circumferences. Children will complicate matters.
> 
> ...


That's not the issue here man. You really doen't get it.
He already divorced her and what's really more important, he already decided to reconcile with her! It's happening. He's doing it within his rights and perfectly aware of everything.
What the hell is your goal to shime in in this kind of thread to tell him what you told?
That's the point. 
Nobody argue with you that your beliefs are not reasonable. I don't givbe a damm what are your conditions for R and of course the same aplies to OP.
This is not a thread to discuss the validity or R or not, that was not the debate.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> I didn't cause my ex wife to cheat, but I did my share in making our marriage a sh*tty one.


So are you two talking about his together now? I know your W has done a lot of work on her own to deal with her issues. Is this something you're actively discussing?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> This thread is plagued by circular arguing so this will be last post on here.
> 
> First, reconciliation is possible. For me, it would be an EA and a PA under extraordinary circumferences. Children will complicate matters.
> 
> ...


JamesKimp, you have consistantly thread-jacked and diverted this thread from it's intended purpose as outlined in the first post. I and others have several times tried to get you to stick to the point, but you refuse, and have disrespectfully continued to make observations that have no place on this thread. I have , therefore , reported you to the moderators..


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> So are you two talking about his together now? I know your W has done a lot of work on her own to deal with her issues. Is this something you're actively discussing?


We are discussing the issues we had in the marriage, but she will be the first to admit that those issues do not excuse , in any way her decision to cheat. Our main focus is to deal with any issue that would adversely effect our new relationship, such as her self-image, my trust in her and also to lay any lingering doubts about the past, that I may have, to rest. 
It is sometimes a difficult process. Because of her guilt and remorse, she will often times soft pedal around MY part in our marriage woes, and take on more of the blame, than is rightfully hers to bear. I was no angel, by any means. I can be very demanding, aloof, and hard, and I was very difficult to communicate with. In the months since we began to talk again, we have had more honest, direct communication, than we had for the last 10 years of our marriage. She is THRILLED, and told me that she cannot believe that she could love me more than she does now, but that it increases every minute.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> It is sometimes a difficult process. Because of her guilt and remorse, she will often times soft pedal around MY part in our marriage woes, and take on more of the blame, than is rightfully hers to bear.


That's why I hated the thread-jacking.
You just can't build/rebuild any relationship letting yourself off the hook about your shortcomings. Even when it's very tempting to be complacent I'm glad you are aware of how your XW's guilt and self loathing could be/is an impediment. The alternative is rugsweeping, as damaging as it is when we are talking about infidelity.
So refreshing to see the clarity you are displaying.
Thanks again Rookie.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Acabado, you've got to stop thanking me, I'm not doing anything that a lot of other posters aren't doing , also. I'm nuthin special.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Acabado, you've got to stop thanking me, I'm not doing anything that a lot of other posters aren't doing , also. I'm nuthin special.


Actually........

You are quite a bit different from what you normally read here. You divorced your W and moved on with your life. And then you allowed for the possibility that she had changed. Do you know how many peoples say that people never change? Lots.

So, your story is definitely not in the standard mold, Rookie.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Acabado, you've got to stop thanking me, I'm not doing anything that a lot of other posters aren't doing , also. I'm nuthin special.


OK better I shut up. After reading your latest at R thread you are flying sooo high, maybe someone need to put feet in the ground again.
:smthumbup:


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

It was , indeed, one helluva Valentines Weekend, thats for sure. lol


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Rookie4 said:


> It was , indeed, one helluva Valentines Weekend, thats for sure. lol


One that very few men will ever top, that's for sure!


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

That was quick. Just last December people were telling you to take it slow.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> That was quick. Just last December people were telling you to take it slow.


Well we don't know exactly how long it took rookie.....oh wait...you mean the relationship...I thought you were talking about when they were in the back seat of the Impala.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Does she still work with Brad, the OM (Bigger, well hung, Steak)?
When was the NC letter sent? I don't recall reading that. I know he has a spy at her workplace.
What are the conditions of R?
Has she become completely transparent?
Is any monitoring going on? Or is she and the workplace spy the only source of information?
What is she doing to get to the root of the problem so that she doesn't cheat again?
Is rookie still working 3rd shift?
What else besides acting remorseful and counseling is she doing to earn this shot at R?
Is rookie being pressured to R by the families and the grown children?

I believe in R because I'm in R. But I also believe that the *WS has to EARN that shot at R*. R is a precious, precious gift, not to be given away lightly or quickly. R is a difficult process even in the best circumstances. Triggers don't go away quickly. Its not unicorns and rainbows, at least not right away.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Lordmayhem, you are way behind the curve. I've answered all of your questions in other threads. As far as the timeline, it took as long or as short as was needed to make the decision to start a new relationship. Neither she nor I forced anything. It is what it is.
But I will say this. In every situation and in every instance, she has consistantly put my interests ahead of her own, and has given me not a single moment of doubt in her actions. She has been completely above suspicion since the affair ended. A period of over 2 years.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Rookie4 said:


> Lordmayhem, you are way behind the curve. I've answered all of your questions in other threads.


If I am behind the power curve it's because you start different threads and spread everything out instead of sticking to one thread. Since you put everything out in different threads, the least you could do is have the decency to answer them here.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> If I am behind the power curve it's because you start different threads and spread everything out instead of sticking to one thread. Since you put everything out in different threads, the least you could do is have the decency to answer them here.


LMH, I've answered posts like yours almost endlessly. It has nothing to do with courtesy, but frustration at having to repeat myself to posters too lazy or too new to have kept up with it. If you haven't kept up with my situation, whose fault is that? My posts are "spread", because that is where the questions arise or the situation dictates. Do you only "stick " to one thread?, I think not. It seems to me that I have seen you on multiple threads as well. And so, I'm not, nor do I feel obligated to defend myself to you or anybody else. Either read my posts about my situation, or go elsewhere.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Rookie4 said:


> LMH, I've answered posts like yours almost endlessly. It has nothing to do with courtesy, but frustration at having to repeat myself to posters too lazy or too new to have kept up with it. If you haven't kept up with my situation, whose fault is that? My posts are "spread", because that is where the questions arise or the situation dictates. Do you only "stick " to one thread?, I think not. It seems to me that I have seen you on multiple threads as well. And so, I'm not, nor do I feel obligated to defend myself to you or anybody else. Either read my posts about my situation, or go elsewhere.


Like you, I comment on different threads. But my personal story is one thread. If someone asks me, I can point them to one thread. I don't haughtily expect other members to wade through my over 3,600 posts (2 years worth) to find my story. Having to wade through all your threads and posts is being too lazy? 

If you refuse to answer, then fine. I'm not going to wade through 400 posts and different threads, then you have no right to expect everyone else to either. You can continue to be frustrated as others will be "behind the power curve" as well.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Rookie, I have read your other posts (maybe not all of them lol) but have been trying to keep up and think it is wonderful that you and your "sweetie" are where you are today. I also think its very honourable of you to take YOUR share of blame for your marriage breaking down, even tho your wife wants to take the full blame herself. I think that is what sets you apart from some other BS, as they want the WS to take FULL blame and responsibility. Nothing excuses her cheating and that is not your fault but obviously there were other issues that you both needed to work through and didn't. 
I do have one question, and if it is in another thread, feel free to kindly redirect me (I do know how to search and read your other threads ). For 2 years (seems like such a long time) your wife "waited" for you. But did she really wait? I know she did not date or go out with other men, you've explained that, but how could she live a normal, happy, healthy life while waiting? We've talked a bit, so you know somewhat my background. My H is not coming back anytime soon, that is evident. I just don't know how your wife "did it". How did she survive for so long? Was she planning on "waiting" for you forever? I think a lot of us who feel we have disappointed our spouses would love to get inside her brain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Does she still work with Brad, the OM (Bigger, well hung, Steak)?
> 
> *No, she outed herself to HR and made sure they got separated. I believe she left her job after that just to insure NC.*
> When was the NC letter sent? I don't recall reading that. I know he has a spy at her workplace.
> ...


Rookie has not made a base thread. A lot of his info started in the Reconciliation thread because it was a safe place to ask questions during a delicate time. Like you I believe in R but only if the WS works their a$$ off for it. In rookie's ex wife's case I really think she has done so even though she had no hope of getting back with him. She never got into another relationship after the divorce so she's been acting like a devoted wife even when she wasn't. I personally think that is extraordinary. For his part while rookie is certainly enjoying this new relationship with his ex he still continues to evaluate things as they proceed. He's taking it slow as far as handing out the commitment. I think he has a good handle on things.

Sorry rookie if I stepped on your toes (pun intended.)


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> Rookie, I have read your other posts (maybe not all of them lol) but have been trying to keep up and think it is wonderful that you and your "sweetie" are where you are today. I also think its very honourable of you to take YOUR share of blame for your marriage breaking down, even tho your wife wants to take the full blame herself. I think that is what sets you apart from some other BS, as they want the WS to take FULL blame and responsibility. Nothing excuses her cheating and that is not your fault but obviously there were other issues that you both needed to work through and didn't.
> I do have one question, and if it is in another thread, feel free to kindly redirect me (I do know how to search and read your other threads ). For 2 years (seems like such a long time) your wife "waited" for you. But did she really wait? I know she did not date or go out with other men, you've explained that, but how could she live a normal, happy, healthy life while waiting? We've talked a bit, so you know somewhat my background. My H is not coming back anytime soon, that is evident. I just don't know how your wife "did it". How did she survive for so long? Was she planning on "waiting" for you forever? I think a lot of us who feel we have disappointed our spouses would love to get inside her brain.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The point , FF09, is that she didn't just wait. She spent long hours working on her issues, and even though we divorced, she was still a mother, daughter, sister and friend, plus her job and Church, so she had plenty to do. The only thing she didn't do was see other men, because she didn't wnat other men, she wanted me.... She was sustained by hope, even when it looked like she was foolish for doing so.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

bfree said:


> Rookie has not made a base thread. A lot of his info started in the Reconciliation thread because it was a safe place to ask questions during a delicate time. Like you I believe in R but only if the WS works their a$$ off for it. In rookie's ex wife's case I really think she has done so even though she had no hope of getting back with him. She never got into another relationship after the divorce so she's been acting like a devoted wife even when she wasn't. I personally think that is extraordinary. For his part while rookie is certainly enjoying this new relationship with his ex he still continues to evaluate things as they proceed. He's taking it slow as far as handing out the commitment. I think he has a good handle on things.
> 
> Sorry rookie if I stepped on your toes (pun intended.)


AS long as you're only stepping on them figuratively, I'm good, but in RL I'm constantly banging them on something or other. I have no objection to Lordmayhem posting, but I am getting pretty sick of repeating myself, every other day, just because somebody hasn't even tried to learn my situation from my posts, and then asks rude questions. I am well aware of what my ex wife said and did, his reminding me, served no purpose except to rub it in. If he had asked his questions without the snide little aside, I would have been more receptive. I do appreciate the help, you're one of the good guys on TAM.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Thank you Rookie, that puts it into perspective. Didn't her therapist ever tell her to move on and let go of that hope?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Like you, I comment on different threads. But my personal story is one thread. If someone asks me, I can point them to one thread. I don't haughtily expect other members to wade through my over 3,600 posts (2 years worth) to find my story. Having to wade through all your threads and posts is being too lazy?
> 
> If you refuse to answer, then fine. I'm not going to wade through 400 posts and different threads, then you have no right to expect everyone else to either. You can continue to be frustrated as others will be "behind the power curve" as well.


Believe it or not, LMH, you could have learned enough about my situation from a half a dozen posts on the Reconciliation thread. You don't have to read every word of 400 posts, that's ridiculous, and you know it. Even then, I might have been OK with it, but your first question with it's little snarky aside, was not the way to get me to do anything. I am fully aware of my ex wife's words, reminding me of them was meant to be rude and offensive. You respect me, and I will return the favor.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> Thank you Rookie, that puts it into perspective. Didn't her therapist ever tell her to move on and let go of that hope?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not at all. Her therapist told her to work on her personal issues, and show by her actions that she was a honorable and good woman, and that everybody needs hope. I think that I mentioned that her therapist was also involved in an infidelity situation, which gives her a lot of insight into the behavior of BS's and WS's , alike.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

So it appears she improved herself for herself, and not with the goal of "winning" you back. That's really great. This is what I plan on doing myself, I have my issues I'm working through but not for my H, but for me. He's gone and doesn't believe anything I do or say and I cannot change or control that. I also do not plan on dating (there was a fleeting moment of "maybe" but that went away quite quickly) but only because I have to sort through my own issues first. 

Both you are your wife are admirable people in my books. Her for recognizing her problems and working to resolve them and you for believing in her. It definitely takes two to R, glad you want to be part of it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> What she did was akin to murdering the marriage and what's dead can't be resurrected. And, of course I know that he divorced...I'd have to read the 1 post on his main thread to see that.
> 
> What does my 2nd post on this thread reference...uhhhh...the divorce. Don't even try to attack my credibility in this way.
> 
> ...


Since the blizzard 2/9/13 dumped 27" I worked 3 days. Then for one reason or another have not posted here much.

Whether your syntax was on, off, sideways or upside down your knowledge of this poster's story is none existant. Otherwise you would not write the things you have.

I think you fall into the group of people that never had to face an affair yet feel eminently qualified to post about infidelity.

Most marriages do not end after an affair.

Most marriages means 84% of them stay together.

Now I will say this much. There is 2 sides to every story. We have only head Rookies.

Based on what he has posted he has not made the wrong decision to recover his marriage with his WW.

Neither one of them rushed to get back together but took their time and went about recovery the correct way.

To throw everything away is the BS's right after an affair. It is also their right to recover. When one acts inspite they usually only hurt themself.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> LMH, I've answered posts like yours almost endlessly. It has nothing to do with courtesy, but frustration at having to repeat myself to posters too lazy or too new to have kept up with it. If you haven't kept up with my situation, whose fault is that? My posts are "spread", because that is where the questions arise or the situation dictates. Do you only "stick " to one thread?, I think not. It seems to me that I have seen you on multiple threads as well. And so, I'm not, nor do I feel obligated to defend myself to you or anybody else. Either read my posts about my situation, or go elsewhere.


The time it took to respond without answering his questions is the same as it took you to write this non-answer.

I do not need those questions anwsered. Though I do wish people would stay on one thread. It makes finding background info so much easier.

And I for one do not remember things as well as I used to.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

theroad said:


> The time it took to respond without answering his questions is the same as it took you to write this non-answer.
> 
> I do not need those questions anwsered. Though I do wish people would stay on one thread. It makes finding background info so much easier.
> 
> And I for one do not remember things as well as I used to.


Road, except for your first statement, I agree with your post.
LMH's snide first comment rubbed me the wrong way, so why should I go out of my way to help him? I don't care if he ever knows my situation.
Having said that, I agree that I could and probably should have had a base thread where posters could go to find out the facts of my situation. The reason I did not is that I was like my username suggests, a Rookie. I've never been involved with forums or chatrooms or blogs, before, so I didn't know how they operated, and was very wary about getting involved. I was a lurker for a while before I even tried to post. I am much more comfortable now, and if asked POLITE questions, will try to give POLITE answers.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

You actually only have 3 or 4 threads...and 2 of them are relatively short...just fyi...I had no issue reading through them today. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

You get offended way too easily. The words of Lord Mayhem are important and should be seriously weighed, regardless of perceived slights.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Rookie4 said:


> Not at all. Her therapist told her to work on her personal issues, and show by her actions that she was a honorable and good woman, and that everybody needs hope. I think that I mentioned that her therapist was also involved in an infidelity situation, which gives her a lot of insight into the behavior of BS's and WS's , alike.


It's great to hear about a GOOD therapist. I hope both of you have communicated to him/her that they've done a wonderful job.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

It is a her, and we are both very thankful for her. She has become a good friend as well.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> You get offended way too easily. The words of Lord Mayhem are important and should be seriously weighed, regardless of perceived slights.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too easily? I don't think so. Other than being offensive, what would you suggest his first comment was intended to mean? IDK if you have been the victim of infidelity, but if you have, would you like to be reminded of that crap? LMH said nothing that I've not heard in a hundred posts.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> You actually only have 3 or 4 threads...and 2 of them are relatively short...just fyi...I had no issue reading through them today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, FF09, I didn't think it was very many. It's not like I asked him to read the California Legal Code or anything. He could have gotten the gist of my situation in about 15 minutes if he had tried, rather than make snotty posts.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

So, back to the topic...what or when was your day of reckoning? I have to think that for the 2 years you were apart, you had felt completely wronged and blamed sweetie for everything?
When and how did that change?
Also, are you attending MC now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

For your own good Rookie I advise you to take things slow. Its all good that you and 'sweetie' are well on the road to recovery but keep a clear head about you. Don't let your feelings cloud your judgement.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Thank you again, FF09. I was about to close this thread because it would not stay on topic. 
I still blame her for the affair and feel that she wronged me completely. What I don't blame her for is the State of our marriage before the affair. We both made that bed together. I think I realized my part in our sh*tty situation, fairly early on, but since the affair happened, I felt that it would be better to divorce than try to fix both the marriage and recover from her affair at the same time. I didn't feel it would be possible. I think now that I made the right decision, though I've had doubts. 
We have never gone to MC, because we aren't married. Sweetie has her individual therapy, but I'm now a part of the loop, so you might say we are in individual counseling , together. If that makes any sense. LOL.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> For your own good Rookie I advise you to take things slow. Its all good that you and 'sweetie' are well on the road to recovery but keep a clear head about you. Don't let your feelings cloud your judgement.


I agree, Bjornfree, and take your point, but that isn't really what this thread is about. It's more about the individual BS and WS facing their responsibilites.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Sounds like you made the right decision as well. Its great you are involved in her IC. I wish my H was more like you. He takes blame for nothing and says his life is miserable because of me, even tho he's the one living with a POSOW now. 

Was there a moment, before the "could you reconcile" thread that really made you start to think about the possibility of reconciling? I think at the time you had a gf, things seemed to be going well for you....what changed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Rookie4 said:


> Too easily? I don't think so. Other than being offensive, what would you suggest his first comment was intended to mean? IDK if you have been the victim of infidelity, but if you have, would you like to be reminded of that crap? LMH said nothing that I've not heard in a hundred posts.


I'm not trying to be mean at all, but I don't think you take kindly to anything someone has to say unless it coincides with what you have already decided to do. If they do in fact suggest something that doesn't jive, you become stand-offish, and if they respond in kind you get really upset and accuse them of thread-jacking. 

Jameskimp probably used a degree of frankness that even I would refrain from. But the fact is that he is raising an extremely uncomfortable but important truth, and when you got fed up with hearing it you mashed the report button and accused him of thread-jacking. 

And while I can understand if not condone that, given how blunt direct and seemingly uncaring he was, LM's comment was not insulting at all. I don't think either of these two people want you to be in pain, and that's precisely why they commented. I'd wager very, very few people are here to tarnish happy stories, which yours certainly appears to be. I think they worry when things seem extremely good, perhaps a bit too good to be true, which again, this situation might seem to be. 

And I think you know that. I mean, if these guys were just off their rockers, and what they were saying were just a crock, you wouldn't even care. But you're getting mighty upset because of something that's being said, and I think that validates their concern. 

But as has already been stated, you are the best judge of the situation. I think if people were able to refine their assertions a bit more they'd state that _given what you are able to convey to them through text_ they are making some fair assessments. And that might be true but as we all know there are nuances to this situation that only you are privy to, things you have not, and simply cannot express to us.

All the same. Please be careful. And again, this warning is well-meant. I know you have heard this from many different people and it may be annoying by now, but you are not the first person to be in this kind of dilemma, and many such have gone sideways. 

All the best.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

This woman, sweetie, has done nothing for 2 years except be loyal to someone she did not have to be loyal to anymore, make amends for her mistakes and work very hard to make herself a better person. 2 years!!! I can see people being leery and cautionary after say a few a months, but 2 years...IMO this woman has redeemed herself and at this point be given the benefit of the doubt. There will always be doubters but she has proven herself to her husband, family and friends. I applaud her efforts, strength and will. Rookie got what a lot of people are looking for, someone who admits there mistakes and has learned from them. It just happens to be the person he married in the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

FF, I agree wholeheartedly. She had her epiphany fairly soon after D-Day but rookie understandably needed to end the marriage for his own protection. From reading rookie's posts I would say that he always questioned at least a little whether he did the right thing by D but if he hadn't he would not be the person he is today either. So while she was in IC working on herself rookie was dating, parenting, living his life etc. This made him a more confident well rounded man. Now not only is sweetie a better person but rookie is someone who can appreciate her now. That is his epiphany and why I think they can eventually work on the things that derailed their marriage and not fall into those same traps again.

Rookie, you are enjoying your time with sweetie right now. That enjoyment of each other is what you both need to hold on to even when things tend to get bogged down with everyday complications. No matter how crappy a day I've had I know that when I come home and see Mrs bfree's smile it all melts away and I'm happy. She says sometimes the only way she gets through her work day is knowing she'll soon come home and be with me. That is the real key to happiness in marriage when you get right down to it.

Edit: And please don't close down this thread. It has a positive message and its important for people to be able to view it.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> I'm not trying to be mean at all, but I don't think you take kindly to anything someone has to say unless it coincides with what you have already decided to do. If they do in fact suggest something that doesn't jive, you become stand-offish, and if they respond in kind you get really upset and accuse them of thread-jacking.
> 
> Jameskimp probably used a degree of frankness that even I would refrain from. But the fact is that he is raising an extremely uncomfortable but important truth, and when you got fed up with hearing it you mashed the report button and accused him of thread-jacking.
> 
> ...


Whitemousse, I will say it again, thought it is getting very tedious to do so. This thread is NOT, NOT about my situation!!! It is about the BS and WS accepting responsibility, and when they did so. Got it? The main reason that I outed JamesKimp, and became testy with LMH and now you is that you WILL NOT STICK TO THE SUBJECT! Look I don't want to be an a**hole, but you are simply not listening or don't care enough to STICK TO THE SUBJECT. That is the definition of thread-jacking. You are doing it also. We can discus this subject as adults or you can continue to try to go off on tangents, but if you do I will warn you also. STAY ON TOPIC or go elsewhere.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> Sounds like you made the right decision as well. Its great you are involved in her IC. I wish my H was more like you. He takes blame for nothing and says his life is miserable because of me, even tho he's the one living with a POSOW now.
> 
> Was there a moment, before the "could you reconcile" thread that really made you start to think about the possibility of reconciling? I think at the time you had a gf, things seemed to be going well for you....what changed?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FF09, I don't think I consciously thought about reconciling, but after hearing about all of the work Sweetie has done over the years and realizing she had really changed her attitude, I began to think that we might be able to have a friendship, or at least a courteous relationship.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

So do you think your reckoning just happened slowly over time? When did you begin to take responsibility?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

bfree said:


> FF, I agree wholeheartedly. She had her epiphany fairly soon after D-Day but rookie understandably needed to end the marriage for his own protection. From reading rookie's posts I would say that he always questioned at least a little whether he did the right thing by D but if he hadn't he would not be the person he is today either. So while she was in IC working on herself rookie was dating, parenting, living his life etc. This made him a more confident well rounded man. Now not only is sweetie a better person but rookie is someone who can appreciate her now. That is his epiphany and why I think they can eventually work on the things that derailed their marriage and not fall into those same traps again.
> 
> Rookie, you are enjoying your time with sweetie right now. That enjoyment of each other is what you both need to hold on to even when things tend to get bogged down with everyday complications. No matter how crappy a day I've had I know that when I come home and see Mrs bfree's smile it all melts away and I'm happy. She says sometimes the only way she gets through her work day is knowing she'll soon come home and be with me. That is the real key to happiness in marriage when you get right down to it.
> 
> Edit: And please don't close down this thread. It has a positive message and its important for people to be able to view it.


I won't close it, Bfree, but it does get tiresome having to try to keep it on topic.
What about you? At what time did you and/or Mrs. Bfree face your reckoning? You too ,FF09 and also Acabado, who has been lurking around. I want to hear your stories and other posters, more than I want to rehash mine.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> So do you think your reckoning just happened slowly over time? When did you begin to take responsibility?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It came about over time, but I was aware of it from the first. My mindset was that our marriage was over, so I could do nothing about that. But I addressed my issues so that I would be a better partner in future relationships.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> I won't close it, Bfree, but it does get tiresome having to try to keep it on topic.
> What about you? At what time did you and/or Mrs. Bfree face your reckoning? You too ,FF09 and also Acabado, who has been lurking around. I want to hear your stories and other posters, more than I want to rehash mine.


I don't know if you could call it a reckoning but I suppose it was in some ways. I never really got over my exW's cheating on me and carried a lot of mistrust into my second marriage. For years I couldn't help but check up on Mrs bfree even though she had never done anything to cause me concern. I think between my unresolved issues from my 1st marriage and the few years I pumped and dumped a lot of women after the divorce I probably had some lingering opinions of women in general as not being trustworthy and easy to "turn." I ended up on TAM after searching the internet about how to strengthen trust and ironically it was former WW like AC, CM, CSS, EI etc that restored my faith in the fairer sex. I decided one day to talk to my wife and it turned out she knew all along I was monitoring her but she never said a thing. She figured I'd talk when I was ready. She suggested I contact my exW and see if I could resolve any issues from my 1st marriage. I did and what I found was my exW was still a bitter ugly person who still blames me for her rotten life. While I never got any answers from her I did find an answer myself. What happened in my 1st marriage was not my fault at all and my exW's life since our parting proves that, at least to me. After my epiphany I found I no longer hated my ex but rather pitied her instead. I got my closure and although I wouldn't call it forgiveness I will call it acceptance.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

My reckoning came on the day I told my H that I gave up on trying to save our marriage. I am a "madhatter" as they call it. I gave up, and it shocked me that I was willing to give up so much for reasons I had no idea what they were. I was completely lost and had no idea was my life was anymore (IC said MLC). I started therapy right away and H and I began to spend more time together, even tho we were still technically separated. About 5 months later, when I thought things were going well (we were still living together as well), I found out he had OW. That was 6 months ago. He nows lives her and has basically given up on me, and also our family. And I later found out she has been around for a lot longer than I knew. 

I am still seeing IC to help with my own issues of co-dependency, control, and self esteem. I never cheated on my H, but did ignore his emotional needs, altho still unclear which ones (we lived and acted as a real couple and family). I know now that I drifted from him because he was not supporting my emotional needs but that is not something he is willing to accept at this time. 

So he's gone, I'm trying to accept that. My goal now is to continue to work on my own issues, be a good mother, and live a better more balanced life. I do not plan on dating anytime soon, I know I am not ready for that and still feel it would be like cheating on my H even tho he is living with OW (something else I'm working on). 

I do hope he has his reckoning but don't see it coming anytime soon. He's in the affair fog and is enjoying his care free life right now. He does not accept any responsibilty for his part in our issues and I take full blame for everything. For 6 months I have been okay with that but it has kept me from moving forward fully towards my own personal recovery. I love him, I really do, always have, but right now that is not enough for him. So I'm trying to release some of the blame but its hard when he refuses to acknowledge any and constantly blames me for his life being miserable. 

In the end, and hopefully in the future, I will be very thankful for my day of reckoning as my life could have ended up being much worse than what it is now or what it could be in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Rookie4 said:


> Whitemousse, I will say it again, thought it is getting very tedious to do so. This thread is NOT, NOT about my situation!!! It is about the BS and WS accepting responsibility, and when they did so. Got it? The main reason that I outed JamesKimp, and became testy with LMH and now you is that you WILL NOT STICK TO THE SUBJECT! Look I don't want to be an a**hole, but you are simply not listening or don't care enough to STICK TO THE SUBJECT. That is the definition of thread-jacking. You are doing it also. We can discus this subject as adults or you can continue to try to go off on tangents, but if you do I will warn you also. STAY ON TOPIC or go elsewhere.


Thank you for demonstrating my point.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> My reckoning came on the day I told my H that I gave up on trying to save our marriage. I am a "madhatter" as they call it. I gave up, and it shocked me that I was willing to give up so much for reasons I had no idea what they were. I was completely lost and had no idea was my life was anymore (IC said MLC). I started therapy right away and H and I began to spend more time together, even tho we were still technically separated. About 5 months later, when I thought things were going well (we were still living together as well), I found out he had OW. That was 6 months ago. He nows lives her and has basically given up on me, and also our family. And I later found out she has been around for a lot longer than I knew.
> 
> I am still seeing IC to help with my own issues of co-dependency, control, and self esteem. I never cheated on my H, but did ignore his emotional needs, altho still unclear which ones (we lived and acted as a real couple and family). I know now that I drifted from him because he was not supporting my emotional needs but that is not something he is willing to accept at this time.
> 
> ...


What you are doing is basically what I did. you are separated and I'm divorced, but we are both trying to solve our issues so that we can have better relationships in the future. Neither of us can solve our WS's issues for them, that is their problem.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

That is exactly correct, I do want to be better for a future relationship. Its hard because I go back and forth with my WS hat and then my BS hat. I am working on myself due to my actions as a WS but then also have to deal with the pain, sadness and anger as a BS. You are lucky that your future relationship is with the love of your life, that will probably not happen for me because even tho my H is a WS now, he still views himself as a BS and is not dealing with his issues. And like you said I cannot worry about that. You're wife is a good woman for working through her issues.
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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

FF09, she isn't my wife and isn't likely to be so for quite some time , if ever. LOL. But she is a pretty good woman, now, and a lot better than she was.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Lol, yes of course 
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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Whitemousse, I will say it again, thought it is getting very tedious to do so. This thread is NOT, NOT about my situation!!! It is about the BS and WS accepting responsibility, and when they did so. Got it? The main reason that I outed JamesKimp, and became testy with LMH and now you is that you WILL NOT STICK TO THE SUBJECT! Look I don't want to be an a**hole, but you are simply not listening or don't care enough to STICK TO THE SUBJECT. That is the definition of thread-jacking. You are doing it also. We can discus this subject as adults or you can continue to try to go off on tangents, but if you do I will warn you also. STAY ON TOPIC or go elsewhere.


This thread is pointless. All I see it do is forcing you to recall WW's affair, and fend off those that are against recovery.

If you need help on recovery then continue your original story for help. I do not think you need help.

Another reason this thread is a waste is that you can be using your knowledge on threads were BH's are where you were in the beginning and need your help to get to where you are now. This thread does not help them.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

IMO, I think it is helpful. Its good to hear how both WS and BS have dealt with their issues. 
And also, Rookie, I do believe helps a lot of other people by posting on their threads. So he is helping other BS. Just because it is not useful to you, does not mean its not useful to others. Again, just MHO.
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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

theroad said:


> This thread is pointless. All I see it do is forcing you to recall WW's affair, and fend off those that are against recovery.
> 
> If you need help on recovery then continue your original story for help. I do not think you need help.
> 
> Another reason this thread is a waste is that you can be using your knowledge on threads were BH's are where you were in the beginning and need your help to get to where you are now. This thread does not help them.


Road, I don't agree that this thread is pointless, but I do agree that there are some posters who would like to derail it completely, throught their ignorance. I always feel that to be able to face our own demons is a positive thing, and will help us in the future , whether we R or D.
I really am reluctant to give advice, because I don't know sh*t from Shinola. I do what I think is right, but a lot of the time, I'm just lucky. IDK how much help I could be to other BH's.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Rookie4 said:


> IDK how much help I could be to other BH's.


I suspect lots, if the see it in time, and can man-up appropriately.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Agreed. I think it also helps FWS as well.
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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> Hmm...this is the same woman who said your "tool" was smaller than the OM's, right? And having sex with him is akin to eating steak after tasting only the hamburger that is you for decades? And coming back to you after things didn't work out when Brad only wanted to bang her for a month and then tossed her aside? Or was it that she left after she realized this?
> 
> It's good that you are you into reconciling but boy do people sure have selective memories, huh?
> 
> ...


You wouldn't, hmmm? Maybe that's because you don't love her and so have nothing invested in their recovery and reconciliation?:scratchhead:


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