# Has anyone noticed?



## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Has anyone noticed the 'Reconciliation' thread?...not a lot of hope for those of us that were hoping for it or are still hoping for it...SUCKS!!!!!


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Yep, I try to not even look there. I am hoping maybe people just don't come back and post their story


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## maplesky (May 14, 2010)

I noticed that, too. I personally believe that when most people get to the separation stage they know on some level there is a good chance things could end in divorce. But, as I see it my my personal situation, there remains the question of how much work was done to "repair" the marriage before the decision to live apart took place. And there remains the question of what kinds of things were knowingly done during good times to strengthen the marriage. 

These days, I'm taking a good long hard look at these things as it is apparent that if we are to decide to work on things, much work, determination, strength, and communication will be needed. And there will have to be a foundation of love for that to work. But I also know that it's easier to take the path of least challenge: once you've re-established your lives as single individuals, it's seemingly easier to just live life that way and move on. I mean, why invite all those challenges back into your life? It was painful and it will be painful at times again, guaranteed. I'm not saying I feel like it is not worth it, but I'm saying that I imagine a lot of people eventually decide that they'd rather not re-open old wounds or go through that sort of thing again.

Just the other day, my husband told me that he felt "lighter" in his current situation. That was painful to hear; at the same time, I was happy for him. I was also angry, though, and expressed it. It was as though he we telling me it was definitely over. But I later realized that this was only my interpretation and this is not what he said. I was, in effect, questioning the extent to which he was reflecting and I was putting words in his mouth, and I suppose that wasn't a great start on the path to reconciliation... ugh. 

Here's my big question for the day: Is reconciliation after a separation like a new marriage? Or should it be treated as the same marriage? Because it seems as though people look at how they've changed and whether they are still compatible. It seems like the fact that they are still married doesn't come into play. It seems like once you've separated, it gives you cause to ignore the reasons you got married in the first place. It seems as though "who spouses were to each other in those first wonderful years" all goes out the door at some point. It seems like it's easy to throw all the good stuff away. And that makes me very very sad.

On the other hand, what reason did I give my husband to believe that the coming years would be any different than the last? I'm sure that one wonderful week together before he left was by no means comforting. If anything, he is likely questioning why things changed, what my motivation was, and whether things would just go back to the way they were once he agrees to work on things... and if we were to work on things, it would mean I would have to move to his country thereby introducing a new cultural environment for me, no job to start, needing to make new friends, etc... and he is likely wondering if I could handle all of it and how that will impact the marriage. I'm wondering about it all, too. There is a lot there. And I imagine this is the case with all couples contemplating reconciliation after separation. It will take a massive amount of strength and commitment. 

Wow. Sorry for rambling...


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

I also noticed it but did you notice too that there is a difference of 2 years?

The separation thread was opened in 2007 and the reconciliation was just opened in 2009.

Don't give up hope and avoid getting distracted.  If we are meant to be together, we will be if not still it is a good thing we are working on ourselves.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I just read a divorce book, "Divorce and New Beginnings" and she addresses that "problem" - she calls it the "Hope Trap" regarding reconciliation.

I would think just about all here at this forum would hope for reconciliation, because obviously our marriage was important to us.

But no matter what, reconciliation or not, you have to grow and move forward and start over and make a new beginning as if the divorce has happened and will.

Don't hold out hope. . it's a trap.

Hopes's a powerful thing, maybe the best of things but hope can also drive a man mad.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Scannergaurd when you said 'hope can drive a man mad' it hits really close to home. I know that it has only been a week that he has actually been gone but I feel like the only thing that is really keeping me going right now is the hope he is coming home. All I think about is the moment he says, 'OK I want to come home' I feel like I am on the verge of going mad...


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## maplesky (May 14, 2010)

What's the difference between separation and divorce? This is what I'm struggling with. For me, our separation is not a means to divorce (i.e., an agreed-upon gentle transition to divorce). We committed to wear our rings, we have agreed to remain faithful, and we are working on us in part with a goal to revisiting how we feel about the marriage. In this, I have hope. I can see how it might eventually drive a person crazy, though. 

For others who are currently in a separation where it is truly a time to reflect on oneself and the marriage -- without the definitive intent to go ahead with divorce -- how do you see hope? How do you manage your life in the interim? I was divorced previous to this (this is my second marriage), and I read a book called _In the Meantime_ following that divorce, and I'm trying to apply some lessons from that in this period of much-needed self-reflection. But I honestly don't see the latter process and hope for my marriage as irreconcilable goals, or processes requiring two different approaches.

Would love to hear others' thoughts on this.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Finallyseewhy:

If you like my words of wisdom, they're plaguarized from Steven King, who wrote the novella "Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption" and then made into a movie - Shawshank Redemption.

It's about 2 men serving a prision sentence and both achieve redemption for past sins in 2 different ways and both have diverging philosophies on hope.

It's a Top 5 movie favorite of all time, probably top 3. (gotta tip my hat to the Karate Kid) and probably one all us divorcing should watch as the prision is certainly a timely metaphor for all of us, no?


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Oh that is a great movie very powerful but so sad. I need to watch some good movies maybe I will pop that one in!


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Maple,



> What's the difference between separation and divorce? This is what I'm struggling with. For me, our separation is not a means to divorce (i.e., an agreed-upon gentle transition to divorce). We committed to wear our rings, we have agreed to remain faithful, and we are working on us in part with a goal to revisiting how we feel about the marriage. In this, I have hope. I can see how it might eventually drive a person crazy, though.
> 
> For others who are currently in a separation where it is truly a time to reflect on oneself and the marriage -- without the definitive intent to go ahead with divorce -- how do you see hope? How do you manage your life in the interim? I was divorced previous to this (this is my second marriage), and I read a book called In the Meantime following that divorce, and I'm trying to apply some lessons from that in this period of much-needed self-reflection. But I honestly don't see the latter process and hope for my marriage as irreconcilable goals, or processes requiring two different approaches.
> 
> Would love to hear others' thoughts on this.


Good question and I suppose it's different for every couple depending on the dynamic of the divorce.

With my divorce, I tried to define that dynamic with my stb-x. I said let's wait until Labor Day until we see other people. She didn't. I left for a month to just see if she would miss me. She looked all smug when I came back and started trying to dictate child-rearing arrangements and home ownership and such. I was just "hoping" for the possibility maybe she missed me. 

I'll never forget that smug look - like she was going to put the screws to me. . .haunts me regularly.

I dunno. . .I would have been open to anything, even remaining faithful until the decree. She wasn't going to agree to anything or talk about it. 

I think women (if I may grossly generalize) can often see it as a man trying to control the woman thing so she rebelled and saw someone a month after seperation and was ready to spend the rest of her life with that same someone by November (apparently she was keeping a "back-up man" - maybe an emotional affair or long distance friendship for a long time, whatever you want to define it as).

Anyway, I agree with your dynamic but you need 2 willing parties. 

I moved on after Labor Day as I agreed. I thought it appropriate to mourn the marriage for at least 4 months and wanted to respect my marriage at least that much. 

When I told my counselor this, she asked, "Well, what does she think?" I said, "She had no response. . .didn't seem to care one way or the other." 

She told me she had checked out and for me to move on with my life and if I found someone to connect with sexually, go for it. I did and I am enjoying my "bachelorhood" (quotes on purpose b/c I am still legally married)

I don't know if my answer was cohesive but I hope that helps. I think you as a couple are doing it the humane and correct way and wish my ex had thought more of our marriage of 15 years than to disrespect it. . .but what you are going to do? C'est la vie. . .I am growing into a happier and more fulfilled person.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Finallyseewhy:

Sad backdrop but the ending made my jaw drop and is inspiring. But I think the lessons are germane to divorcing people and "hope."

For "Red" to achieve Redemption, he had lost all hope and they put him on parole. For Andy Dufrane, he never lost hope and escaped. I think reconciliation finds you, not it.

If it's any "hope" though< I think the book I mentioned that 25% of couples get back together after separation, but. . .but. . .I don't know if they still ultimately divorce or not.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Tell you guys what..1st week I was very hopeful we might get back...1st month thought okay we have a chance..2nd month maybe I don't want to,even for kids (trying to fool myself)..3rd month started going out with friends trying to convince myself I was having a good time...wife heard I went out and has been texting me after NC and all of a sudden using my daughters to tell me how much they miss me when I see them everyday...I've already told myself forget it..it's false hope since we never talked rules about the separation so I made my own after 3 months.


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## Hurtin' unit (Apr 13, 2010)

Here is where I am at with it all. Almost exactly one month apart, trying to get on with things. She didn't want me there, and I am staying with co-worker for now. See my kids only every second weekend (twice so far), and they are my priority when here with me. Got my work schedule changed so I don't work Sat. any more. Coming weekend is long weekend here, kids have cousins coming so I don't get to see them, not that I have been told or asked officially. I wasn't a great father, very absent, and am now really honestly trying and looking forward to spending time with them. I'm a little choked right now, and was going to talk to my wife last Sunday when I dropped them off, but she was next door at her sisters (who I can't stand) and didn't bother to come over when I was there, even though my daughter I think asked her to. Not yet sure how to deal with this.

Even if she wanted me back home, which even with all the problems we had I would do, I can't ever see myself living next door to her sister. After one month apart, it does get easier even though today was hard with nothing to do really. I am doing some dirt biking which really clears your mind of all the crap in it, as it is new to me I really have to focus. And I just bought a crashed sport bike that needs some work, to ride and fix up. My wife will be pissed when she finds out, but that's her problem, not mine. I don't honestly see us getting together, she basically won't talk to me and never really has about her feelings, so there you go.

I have always said in a war, somebody has to put down the guns first, but even when you do that you may find the other person won't put there's down, and there is nothing you can do about that except get on with your life. They may come around eventuallly, but it will most likely be too late by then. Even if you love them with all your heart.

Imo.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Hurtin...you need to start doing what you never did in the past because at the moment (according to your post) you haven't done anything different...you said you can't stand her sister..well I say next time go to her sisters..what have you got to lose?..next time just tell her you're picking up the kids and do it...otherwise you'll be living with and never getting to 'next time'.


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## Hurtin' unit (Apr 13, 2010)

2D....I may actually just go and get the kids anyways, we'll see if my wife talks to me about it or not. If she doesn't bother, then I can just go get them and play dumb. If she does, then I can consider it. They only get to see their cousins once a year, and their cousins really love hanging out with them, so it isn't just about me. May long weekend has traditionally been a time when all the family comes to visit, not sure if it's fair of me to be selfish even though it's my weekend. I'll see.......if my kids want to come, then they will be here for sure. They are 15 and 14 so can decide for themselves what they would like to do.

As for her sister, not really sure why I would want to go there at all. If I had to talk to my wife, I would have gone, but I didn't really have to so.....I didn't. It just would have been nice if she had told me about the kids not coming instead of hearing it from my kids. My sister in law has always been a bag, and it is very likely the next time I talk to her, it will be a very bad conversation. Actually it will not be a conversation, it will just be me telling her where to go.........better to avoid that when kids are there.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Hurtin Unit,

The book I just read did note that a lot of times after a divorce "absent fathers" become involved fathers so don't kick yourself too much - the divorce may be the correct tragedy in your life to reprioritize.

I would say I was a very involved father (many noted that) before but now minimally involved - that being said. . .I am a better provider and hope to work towards providing 1/3rd of each of my 3 kids college educations and having summers with them where they can work their way through college.

I am not so much involved with the little kid stuff anymore - baths, homework, lunches, cooking, cleaning, etc. I am missing that and the funny thing is - it doesnt' bother me too much, although I do get 1 full day/week with the baby (2 overnights).

I am enjoying being a career man and not Mr. Mom.

Whether that's a value you agree with or not ( I have taken some crap from women on this) , I actually respect that or anyone else's opinion but I am happier to be living my life in more accordance with my values.

I love my children but I am content to "divorced-father them", not be a "genderless co-parent."


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Hey Scanner..personally for me I did the (homework,making lunches,tucking them into bed,waking them up and making the breakfast add constant talking and playing with my kids,etc.) yet forgot the most important part of marriage...making sure my spouses needs were met...which now makes the time away from my girls really tough..


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

You time with or without your daughters and you not meeting your spouses needs (if true) are 2 different matters and one doesn't have to do with the other.

Yes, the greatest gift you can give your kids is a happy marriage. I do wish my spouse had realized that but that's not happening so try to make the best of it. Give them the next best thing - a happy divorce.

Odds are one of your kids will have one.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

I was hoping that a couple made it to give me hope. AS if right now, the only reason why I feel okay is because I am still hopeful that he might come for me. Even after he told me that he didn't love me anymore, after he told me there was no chance of getting back together. I might be in denial but I feel if I give up hope, then what else is there?


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## Hurtin' unit (Apr 13, 2010)

Life..........and all the ups and downs that come with it. I hear what you are saying, but you have to keep moving.....whatever direction that is, and each day gets that little bit easier and better. I hope that you get back together if that's what you want, you just may find that what you want changes as you make your journey. Just don't sit around waiting, is all I'm saying. Try to live your life...........


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

I have noticed that I cant be alone because if I am I start to think about him and the things that were and might happen. I start blaming my self again and I feel so low, so I have to be surrounded by people so I can feel better. Going to school makes me feel better. Takes my mind of things, but still at night and when I wake up, is when I feel the worse =(


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