# Please Help: My Manager and I are competing for the same promotion



## funengineer (Jan 20, 2016)

The director position in my department is open, my manager never thought about applying to this position until she found out that I'm going for it. if I get the position I will become my manager's manager. 

I've been in my current position for a year or so and my manager for over 5 years. she is been doing really bad at job. she cant run a project nor has the technical experties that her position is requiring. 

many have told me that she feel threatened by me since i was able to accomplish in few months more than the few years she is been with the company. I was able to turn the department around and became the center of the attention. 
she started excluding me from meetings and taking me off projects and make me do more support than design and project implementation and every time the team get stucked in the project she bring to the project to do the work then she takes me off. 

Thank god i have interview for the director position next week and I was able to get HR recommendation letters that I'm more suitable for this position than anyone else. 


do you think I have a chance to get that position? and the interview will be with her boss who was filling this role until he hire someone? 
what should I expect in the interview? 

I know for fact since I dont meet with upper management like she do because of her position as manager that she takes credit for the things I've been doing


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't know if you have a chance, but from what you posted, it sounds like you are more competent than your boss, and I hope that you get it! Keep us posted.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
swapping order in management can be very awkward, so if you do get the job you will need to be very diplomatic. If you don't don't lose heart - it may be that upper management is trying to avoid an order swap, but will look for some other way to promote you.

My suggestions for the interview:

Don't criticize your current boss. If upper management is competent, they already know her problems, if not, then it doesn't matter anyway.

If things have turned around since you arrived, upper management is probably aware. Talk about what you did - but make it sound like team work even your old boss "WE managed to get the thingimabob recombobluate". . Remember that you are applying for a management job so they are looking for your ability to get other people to work effectively, not just to rely on your own skills. 

Try to understand what the position you are applying for entails. What sort of responsibilities, what will your function be? If it isn't clear, ask questions. Interviews are two-way. Its always good to see an candidate ask important questions about a job. 

As far as you can be relaxed - try to convince yourself that this is a completely reasonable position for you to have.


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## funengineer (Jan 20, 2016)

RichardSharpe than you for your reply, you have to see how my manager watch over my shoulders. every time she struggles she bring me to the office to help her out. when there is a new project she brings me along to help out then she takes me out the project. I've decided that if god forbid and I was not able to secure this promotion I'm going to look for other position within the company. my role in my current position is critical and one if not only one who can do what I do. she told me once straight to my face fake it until you make it. 

I'm not sure if I should make it clear to the hiring director that I will seek different position if I dont get this promotion.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Yes, I do believe that your proven ability to finish a project will eminently qualify you for this position, and your bosses inability to do so will hurt her!

In the history of both my private and public sector corporate tenured lifetime, I've seen this happen quite often! To that end, if I were you, I wouldn't really be all that concerned about it!

Best of luck to you!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Have a candid discussion with whomever this new position will report to. Ask about your chances.

Applying over your current supervisor can be dicey, especially if s/he gets the new role and wants to 'punish' you for trying to jump the ladder. Sometimes, you may have to be prepared to leave your current role.

Personally, I think you should go for it, especially if you are objectively more talented. No good leader wants to promote those who won't even ask for the work! But have that conversation and test the waters -- it will really depend on the leadership in your organization, whether they promote for length of service or talent.

Good luck!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Wish I had employees even half as ambitious as you or your manager atm, regardless I agree with others - go for it. Also agree strongly with RichardSharpe here:



> Don't criticize your current boss. If upper management is competent, they already know her problems, if not, then it doesn't matter anyway.


Opportunity doesn't knock twice, if you don't push for this you'll regret it forever.


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

My answer really depends on your career goals. If you are looking to move up, and likely out, of your organization soon anyway then full speed ahead, with all the cautions that folks have listed already in this thread.
However, if you think your long term future is with this company I might think twice about it.
It will be very difficult for your organization to promote you over your (on paper, according to your company's existing table of organization-that's why you she-not you is the boss) greater qualified (female) supervisor. If you do interview better the company is in an uncomfortable position and maybe they resolve it by giving it to neither of you. That's the likely result.
Secondly if you have never read Robert Greene it's is high time you did. In his 48 Laws of Power, Rule #1 is "Never Outshine the Master". That is what you may be doing already, and certainly will do should you get selected over her. Very dangerous if you both are going to be at the organization long term.
If you are interested in staying with the company then wouldn't the best solution be that she gets the posted position and you get her job? Wouldn't that be best from the point of view of the company and your boss?
Withdrawing from consideration and actively supporting her for the job might work best for all, especially you.
Think about it from all sides and see if I am not correct.
Best of luck in whatever you do.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Based on OP, he's already dealing with "outshining his master";



> many have told me that she feel threatened by me since i was able to accomplish in few months more than the few years she is been with the company. I was able to turn the department around and became the center of the attention.
> she started excluding me from meetings and taking me off projects and make me do more support than design and project implementation and every time the team get stucked in the project she bring to the project to do the work then she takes me off.


Hence IMO it's better he takes a chance for the sake of his team lest the company continues to suffer from his manager's incompetence and insecurity.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
It depends a lot on the people involved, but I think I would suggest not mentioning looking for a new position during the interview, but instead to that if you don't get the job.

Use the interview to get a feel for what upper management thinks about you. If you get the impression that they are positive towards you, then they may help you get a new position even if they don't think you are right for this on.



funengineer said:


> snip
> 
> I'm not sure if I should make it clear to the hiring director that I will seek different position if I dont get this promotion.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

I hopped my boss in the previous job. We both applied, I got the job. It wasn't really even close. The only reason he was managing me in the first place is when he joined the company a few years previous, I had life things going on that required more attention, and I wasn't in a position to manage people. I didn't want to do it. It made for an odd dynamic where I was de-facto managing him while he was managing my peers - so it was a bit weird.

That said, if you're more qualified, you'll get the job. What you don't want to do is, insult your current manager during the process. Don't threaten to leave if you don't get the job. You can feel free to look, but if you say that, it says A LOT about you as a person, and they'll just tell you to f-off. Also, be prepared to fill your boss' current position. He/she will most likely quit if they don't get the job sooner rather than later. I didn't have to go through this. My boss knew I was better qualified to get the job than him - he didn't really have the background knowledge to pull it off, so he was kind of ok with it. Obviously, not thrilled, but knew one way or the other, I wouldn't be working for him anymore.


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## funengineer (Jan 20, 2016)

This is where we standing. and since I have access to companies applications systems. 
Many applicants for this position including me and my manager. the hr who sends or sort applicants said this when she forwarded the message to board of directors

Me: Internal candidate, I wouldnt think he is perfect fit
My boss: Internal Candidate, not fit for position
another person: External Candidate, he looks awesome got what we need. 

the third person had interview two weeks ago, he lives in another state. 

where I'm standing
1- i have recommendation letter from HR manager to the board recommending for position
2- Another HR director recommended me for position ( thats why i got my application pushed to board of directors)
3- I have more education and general experience than the above candidates ( but the third candidate has more experience only with system we run)
4- I'm welling and will be happy also if my manager got the promotion which i will be next in line to get her position. ( but she sucks big time)
5- I know if they lose me they will be in some kind of trouble because it is only me on this position and only me who can do this job ( while we have some consultants they are busy with other things including some other issues and two other projects)

just reading the comment that was sent by the lady on the HR who sort the applications and find the candidates hurt a little ( but she does not know what I do or what I have done for the department)

I scored the interview and it is next week. not sure what kind of questions I should expect.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> If things have turned around since you arrived, upper management is probably aware. Talk about what you did - but make it sound like team work even your old boss "WE managed to get the thingimabob recombobluate". . Remember that you are applying for a management job so they are looking for your ability to get other people to work effectively, not just to rely on your own skills.


I disagree with this part of your advice, it will give the OPs current boss too much credit for what the OP did. In my org, it is a death sentence in an interview to not specifically state what you did. You can talk about how you worked in the team and such, be keeping to what you did (influencing and leading others is doing) is important. else it looks like you didn't do anything and needed the team to do anything.


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## funengineer (Jan 20, 2016)

sorry for typos, im using a tablet to type outside.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Two things you should have answers ready for:

1 - If you don't get that position are you willing to step up to your manager's position if she gets it?

2 - How will you feel managing your former manager?


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## Grogmiester (Nov 23, 2015)

I have seen this happen many many times in my career.

I've always said ,,,, you never know who you're going to work for !


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## funengineer (Jan 20, 2016)

I will be mroe than happy to take her position if she get the promotion. ( but nothing will change in the department)
also, I'm kinda been acting and feeling like her boss since i started since she asks me for help and my opinion and get things done for her. she made it clear when she is on vacation that im in charge.


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## funengineer (Jan 20, 2016)

guys this is what happened today

Interview: the Director sat with me and he looked at me then my resume and said, I'm looking for someone who can manage managers and have long experience in management and I don't see exactly you have that in your resume, plus it is very odd for you to manage your manager. 
I told him about the work I've done and how I saved the projects so many times and how my leadership skills and knowldge were very helpful with examples and with recommendations letters from both former and current employer. I told him what i accomplished and how I helped improve the department and the things I have done. ( as I expected my manager never told him about what I have done and how i helped save their ***) . 
I told him how I'm going to run the department and why our department going to helll, i told that my manager has an excellent functional experience in some areas but no technical or project management experience. I also told him no one is Able to say NO to something we are not able to do because either they are afraid who just because some consultants we have want to keep things busy for job security. 
I showed him an example of something happened last week with a client who was not doing their job right and i took the initiative to call vice president of the company to get things moving i told him I waited before calling the VP to show you that no one care and no one is able to handle dealing with external clients. 
he smiled and had a surprise look at his face and he said I'm glad we met, I didnt know all that, thank you for doing all of this. he added, you changed my mind and made your case. 
he said he will interview some more and ask about me ( ask the people who recommended for the position) and he said I prefer also to have someone i know than someone from outside if that was the case. he said next said I will narrow things down then you will meet with V.Ps and take it from there. he thanked me that I brought all these things to his attention he was not aware of.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I hope you get the job but I'd caution you not to get too discouraged if you don't.

Regardless of whether you get this particular promotion or not, you're probably going to need to get away from your manager if you want any career progression. And don't be surprised if your manager suddenly gets more hostile with you in the short-term due to you both applying for the same position. She obviously sees you as a threat because you're more competent.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

funengineer said:


> I'm not sure if I should make it clear to the hiring director that I will seek different position if I dont get this promotion.


Telling the interviewer that if they don't give you this position you will leave will probably end up with you being shown the way to the door. 

I know if I were interviewing and the interviewee tried a blackmail trick like that the interview would be finished in an Italian nanosecond.


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