# How to leave



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

For the first time in our entire three years, he has started mentioning his ex fondly. Last night he even said how much he admired her when she was 20 for how good a job she had. 

Never mind that she is now a drunk living on the street, that doesn't even bother to come see her kids. 

Also, I was talking about how much I hate my ex's and he said, yeah i guess you feel that way about all of us. US? he caught himself right away and said he didn't mean that the way it sounded, just that he meant 'us' in the all my men way. 

Freudian slip I think.

Then he suggests we play a sex game. You choose cards and do what it says. Foreplay was 'tasting things off your lover - if you guess the flavor and body part you get a sex card'

He guessed every body part of mine but none of the flavors. Then it was my turn. he ended with putting pudding on his willie. The 'sex' part was to be (also his choice) role playing with him being the burglar and me being the 'mean house wife' and it was supposed to have an element of bondage. 

So i 'caught' him stealing and tied him up and got to have my 'way' with him. But again, he got to come and I didn't. After he came he said he was tired (no surprise there). But he never seems to take my feelings sexually into consideration. 

I'm tired of waiting. Tired of hearing that he 'doesn't know' if he wants a relationship any more with me (this not knowing has been going on for a year now) and being treated with passive acceptance to all my love, passion, tenderness, romance and such. He even said that he tried to be GRACIOUS when I spent a month giving him love notes, etc.

He's just not that into me... 

I'd like to bring up at least an in house separation. I can't keep living like this. He doesn't have enough money to move out, which is one reason he stays.

He calls me from work just to say hi. He greets me warmly (hi honey how was your day) when he comes home from work. he gives me friendly hugs a few times a day sometimes. He kisses me on the check or pecks me on the lips before he leaves to go somewhere. He helps out around the house. He helps with the kids. He sometimes asks me if i want to snuggle at night (but would never ever say - i'd like to snuggle with YOU) He asks me if i need a hug. He says that he is sorry that I am sad or depressed without finding out why or talking about it. He agrees to (but doesn't initiate) time spent together. He is a kind, considerate co-parent and roommate. But a neglectful, selfish, checked out self-centered husband and lover. 

Am I asking for too much? Should I just stay together for the sake of the kids?


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

No, you are not asking too much...

You need for him to understand how you feel. So you take him aside, look him in the eyes and tell him that you think it is time to explore a separation. Tell him how you feel and why you have reached that decision. 

He will probably beg and plead, but hold strong. Do be receptive, however to councling. Check out Mort Fertel's teachings. There is plenty of material out there.

The two of you must have shared that Utopian love at some point, so figure out how to go back there and start over from the courtship phase.

Good luck on this. Keep us informed.

~Moog


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I have done that before... He did not beg or plead, just asked for a week to make up his mind. A week later he said he hadn't had time (or taken the time) to think about it but that if he was 'pushed' to a decision he would just move out as no one was going to control him - ie make him make up his mind.

He will not beg. He will not plead. He feels there is no such thing as true love or romance or such like that. Doesn't want it and is not willing to work for it. He is happy or at least content now because he has what he feels is 'safe'. We are just 'friends' and just 'roommates' He cares for me and says so, but doesn't want any personal or emotional responsibility for me or us.

I have ordered Mort's boot camp thing. Gone thru all of it. I sure wish I had found it a year ago instead of the Marriage builders site. He was willing to go to counseling a year ago after he dropped the 'I don't want you anymore and i'm moving out bomb' on me. He said he was willing to work on the marriage builders stuff - we even did six months of very expensive counseling over the phone. 

He would agree at the time of counseling to everything but I found out later he didn't actually agree with what he said he was agreeing to - which ultimately sabotaged any efforts I was trying to make thru the program and kept him from doing the homework or working on things from his end that were suggested to him. I found out later that he thinks marriage builders is full of Sh&t. Mainly because he insists he has NO emotional needs from me and he felt the counselor was telling him it was all 'his' fault for his not wanting to be in love with the mother of his children.

We did share a Utopian love at some point. Six long glorious months. We both agreed that it was the best thing we ever had or felt. It's the reason we fell in love, moved in together, had a child and I agreed to marry him. He has since taken back his offer of marriage. (and didn't tell me about that part for months - how do you spell resentment and shock??)

The difference is he doesn't believe he can ever get back to that Utopian place and I do. He does not want to start a courtship phase back up and I do. He wants to 'get along as friends' and see if anything develops on its own later. I don't know what that means, how long later is or what he's willing to do about it. When asked, he says he doesn't know either. So I'm in perpetual limbo.

I've been trying his way for months and all it's gotten us is emotionally, sexually and romantically more distant from each other. We don't fight as much, but that's because we aren't as close either. He's accepting of my love, passion, affection and advances because he thinks that MY being loving is 'what makes me happy' he thinks he should accept my love because it would make me unhappy to be rejected. That's ok as far as it goes. But every time he doesn't reciprocate with his own forwardness, fondness, love, affection, romance, sexual advances etc. I DO feel rejected. I'm allowed to give and he is gracious enough to accept my giving but I'm not getting the same things back. I'm getting a gracious passive acceptance of my efforts. This feels very wrong to me.

We are semi distant friends who don't want to talk about personal issues. We are fine on logistics most of the time (except for a few key issues) but he doesn't like to talk about or deal with any 'you and me' personal stuff.

He thinks if I ask for a change - could you flirt with me more, could you initiate sex more, could you be more romantic - that's me telling him he's doing EVERYTHING wrong. If he makes a promise then forgets it - and I mention it (not to bit8ch but to give him a chance to remember and do it) that is just me 'ragging on him' That's he's just a F*ckup and he shouldn't try because nothing is ever good enough for me etc. 

It doesn't matter if I tell him and show him the 100's of things he's doing right and perfectly, as soon as I bring up anything that makes me unhappy, he drops the "fine, you are telling me i do everything wrong" bomb on me. I try to explain that's not what i said or meant, he then twists my words to make me sound even worse. I get frustrated, he gets frusttrated and we get nowhere. 

He tells me that I just build him up to cut the legs out from under him. He says that I put him on a pedestal and he doesn't want to be up on there. He says that I'm just manipulating him and controlling him when I'm kind and nice and giving and loving. He tells me that it's when i'm at my MOST loving and he's WANTING to start loving me back that he's the MOST SCARED of letting go because he knows that I will just 'cut him apart' again by eventually mentioning something that I might like a little differently.

As long as he has his "black" glasses on - the opposite of rose colored glasses? he sees everything I do as wrong and bad and mean and controlling. I can do and say the SAME exact thing when he's happy with me and he listens with an open mind and heart, takes me in his arms and makes amends for anything that may have gone wrong. Is on, real, loving and giving, romantic, sensual etc. Then *POOF* he gets scared or lazy or angry or whatever and backs off and won't come out from under his emotional rock. At that point i'm back to being the 'all giving' one and he's back to being the 'safe' all taking one.

Try as I might, I can't get him to see that it's more of his perception of me and himself and us than any actual issues.


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## whyme (Mar 4, 2009)

I am new to this. Has he told you he does not love you? A lot of what you say, I can relate to. I was told, I dont love you the same as I used to. He thinks we are great friends....isn't that what happens?


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

He says he cares for me but doesn't love me the way i love him.

He likes being friends with me. I want romance, sex, love, commitment. 

He wants a light, non committed, non romantic co-parenting friendship.


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