# Safe words and consenting to non consent



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

It's fairly well known on TAM that I lost sexual attraction for my husband for about ten years. We'd had a good ten years of both of us being HD before that, but after kids, house, careers, a few moves (generally the usual elements of a "grown up life") my desire went south and stayed there. No matter what I did, how I tried, I couldn't find the old desire. 

We reconciled about a year ago in just about every way possible, and one of the elements of that reconciliation has been my need for him to worry less about how I feel and focus more on himself and "taking" what he wants. Yes, I want him to be more selfish, which is a challenge even for a reformed "Nice Guy." 

But something that seems to have helped is having a safe word. I want him to believe and act on the belief that I am always available to him sexually, even if I "seem" mad, or irritated, or tired. Even if I "seem" to have been dropping hints all evening that I'm not going to be up for sex later. It's been slow steady progress, and yes there are ten years of bad habits and old triggers to overcome, but that safe word is making a difference. 

We've not had a good week, this past week. At least one huge fight. Not having much sex. Lots of job and home stress for both of us and we've both reverted to old habits. My attraction for him tanked. I haven't been mad at him for any of the arguments we've had, just for the way he reverted to his old way of handling conflict. It makes me feel indifferent and flat towards him. I hated it during those ten years; and when I feel it now I all but panic wondering if we can win this battle after all. 

Last night I was asleep when he came to bed. He ripped the covers off, flipped me on my back, and started having very aggressive sex with me. 

OMG I was sooooo grateful. My attraction came crashing back and I was almost immediately into it. Best. Pounding. Ever. 

Later I asked him about it and he said: "You have your safe word, and I would have stopped instantly." For the first time, he trusted the safe word. 

Many times during those ten years when I had no desire I'd lay next to him and wish he'd "just take me." But there was no way he was going to try that with a woman he thought felt nothing but contempt for him. And I couldn't respond to him when he initiated sex in the "normal" way. It left me too much time to panic about my lack of desire.

All this leaves me to wonder . . . are there other women out there who wish their husbands weren't so careful, so full of trepidation, when it comes to initiating sex when sex has been a sore topic? Are there other women who just wish they didn't have think about responding to an overture from their husband?

Can safe words give husbands the confidence they need to take what they want without asking while knowing that their wife could stop them if they really wanted to?

So many of these "sexless marriages" seem to be about the dance. What if the dance was just bypassed altogether?

Or am I just a kinky b*tch?


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I think only a wife uses a safe word. My DH has never used it...no surprise there...which is awesome. Our safe word is our dogs name...an instant mood killer....I have pushed situations very far to avoid having to stop. Sometimes we both get very out of control with sex...in the moment I don't want to stop...it's hot.....but then the next day we talk about it and reevaluate our desires..

I am glad you are a kinky bxtch...welcome to the club friend!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Yes, to clarify, I was talking about a safe word for the wife. 

But not to stop kinky sex, or a specific sexual act she might not be comfortable with . . . but to stop him going forward with having sex with her without "asking" first. And my asking I mean by verbally testing the waters or by gentle or subtle or sensual physical means that demands she respond in kind.


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> All this leaves me to wonder . . . are there other women out there who wish their husbands weren't so careful, so full of trepidation, when it comes to initiating sex when sex has been a sore topic? Are there other women who just wish they didn't have think about responding to an overture from their husband?
> 
> Or am I just a kinky b*tch?


Yes... both I would answer in a positive reply. For me and my wife it's different b/c there are medical issues. I can sometimes be too strong for my own good. I would NEVER willingly hurt my wife. I also have a very, very, very loud voice from time to time. So I don't subscribe that I'm in the same boat as your husband is. **BUT** I do identify with his being a "Nice Guy", but luckily for me I married the "Nicest Girl"... 

We've never tried any role playing, only 1 toy once that is now more of a running inside gag. I'm sure we may try all that later. I want to make sure health is not an issue first.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

:smthumbup:
Safe words are a great way to really let both of you get into the moment


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

In this day in age, it is NOT normal for a man to flip his 'low drive' woman over and start having aggressive sex with her. To a lot of these 'low drive' women--they would most likely consider this behavior as rape and what guy needs that for a boring lay any way?

It's amazing how some of you women are. You expect your man 'to just take you' when you deny him at all times. You are responsible for your man NOT 'taking you without consent' due to there being in today's world: legal problems. 

I don't think you are kinky at all. To me, you are a woman that denied your husband's mutual advances for years with the hopes of him reading your mind. Being kinky and being a mind reader have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

And in my opinion.. there is nothing natural and exotic about 'safe' words. If sex was to come down to using 'safe' words for it, that is grounds for divorce. I rather be single.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Yikes! I guess this touched a nerve for Wise!

Well count me as a ditto for GettingIts post. I was once an ND wife...no drive touch me and die! So yes, Wise, you are wise to recognize this probably isn't an option for your marriage right now.

But there is hope, if you read GettingIts post, you will notice that she and her husband are connecting now. They've figured out a way to bridge the gap and now she is opening up to him about all those kinky dirty thoughts in her head.

I'm in the same sitch as Getting it. Working our way back from extreme disconnect and sexual dysfunction. We now have a kick ass sex life!

I told my H that he could "take me" when ever he wanted to. Wish I had added he could take me if could catch me! I do love a good chase!

Anyway, one night he did almost exactly with your H did GettingIt. I woke up to my body being flipped over onto my stomach, my sleep pants yanked down, hips pulled up...it was awesome!

Later I asked if he was mad at me and giggled. He quickly reminded me I had told him he could. I grabbed him and hugged and said yes sir I did. And this is me telling you to do it again some time!

Next time I want the chase too!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband would *never* be able to DO what your husband DID.. when he ripped off the covers and took you like that.. If I asked mine to come on to me when I showed irritation and acted like I didn't want it...







.... No....he wouldn't even be able to get an erection under that !! I could also see him asking me if I was crazy -giving him attitude and expecting him to want me....

He is just not wired this way.. I often feel had he showed more Ooomph back in the day, being just a little more aggressive, I would have been turned on by that, it surely would have gotten my attention....but he didn't want me to THINK it was "just about sex" (his words) ....cause it was always more than that for him...

For a time...I was attempting to get him more dominant ..... I bought this book...

Just **** Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom (A Guide for Couples) ...we go through some pages now & then.. but really....

At the end of the day... I had to accept him for who he is, has always been ...and really...he IS enough.... in this case, it's a " you gotta pick your battles woman"... 

I can be aggressive, I could do whips & chains and probably enjoy it..... He has desire, and is turned on by my wanting him ...these are things I NEED...the other I may have "wanted" but I don't NEED.. this has helped me move past it.

He is also one who can't have sex being UPSET... the whole mood goes to hell...

I would imagine men who can FU** being agitated even a little  are more apt to pull this sort of thing off...

Avon & Getting it --you 2 are having too much FUN... I confess I am a little jealous!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

My h wasn't mad, nor was I irritated, I was sound asleep! 

SA, I think YOU should take your husband. Pick a fight with him, pull him into the bedroom as you're arguing, then rip his clothes off! Report back...M'kay?


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> My husband would *never* be able to DO what your husband DID.. when he ripped off the covers and took you like that.. If I asked mine to come on to me when I showed irritation and acted like I didn't want it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

We don't have a safe word (I trust him implicitly) and we have never had a sexless marriage, but there is only one time I remember him going to town on me in the middle of the night, and I don't think he even remembered it the next day. And that is too bad, because it was pretty exciting.

He told me recently that sometime when he is up early from his travels abroad, he is just going to take me in the night, and I have been looking forward to that. But it has not happened yet.

However, he did just grab me and pull me against him in his sleep a few nights ago. I woke up and even just being spontaneously and aggressively held close to him felt great! He didn't remember it the next morning, though. Too bad.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I'm way too much like your hubby, Simply! If I sense even a scintilla of negativity, anger or rejection, I totally lose all desire for sex! And I greatly think that it's only human nature!*


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> *SA, I think YOU should take your husband. Pick a fight with him, pull him into the bedroom as you're arguing, then rip his clothes off! Report back...M'kay*?


 Oh I've picked fights with him over these things in the past 5 yrs... many of those we were already naked...we know how it's gonna end.. so we have to make up... it does stir the hormones alright...this one time...the intensity was so strong...I needed him like air...never forgot that day...it's a running joke now that when I get bi*chy I need Laid...He's told me I cause fights just for Make up sex.. 








I am going to deny this.. but ya know.. it is a darn good ending!

This probably sounds bad.. but it's not often , maybe once every 3 months...we always learn something...we talk very deep and make up very lovingly... and really.. some of our funniest moments have been in those fights...probably sounds nuts, but that's how we are..


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

We don't have the safe word situation like you are describing, but I definitely get to feel the rush of lust and passion that comes out of my husband unbridled by any fears of rejection. We never had a sexless dynamic, it has always been good like this. But I'm just confirming that yes, this works best for me. Being in the mindset of "she's always willing" versus "I might be rejected" is part of what gives a guy the confidence necessary to bring the gusto.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *I'm way too much like your hubby, Simply! If I sense even a scintilla of negativity, anger or rejection, I totally lose all desire for sex! And I greatly think that it's only human nature!*


Lol, Arb. My husband tells me I'm beautiful when I'm angry . . . 

Nothing turns him off sex. Certainly not any mood I happen to be in. 

I am not sure he has ever refused. If he has, I just can't remember it, I guess.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

As I read the OP's description about how she was asleep, her husband came in, ripped the duvet of and gave her a 'good pounding' my first thought was WOW! Followed immediately by 'Yikes...marital rape'.

Please don't misunderstand me, I know genuine marital rape exists and is terrible...but isnt it sad that we have got to the stage that we are wary of legal action?

I recall being in a mall public lavatory with my then 7 year old son...there was a yound child locked in a cubicle crying because he couldn't open the door. My immediate reaction was to help, but I suddenly thought it would be better to send my son over the wall to help.

Even sadder was when our daughter was 3-4ish and would complain to about a sore 'thingy' and could I have a look....Nope...ask Mummy.

Or the local photographic store refusing to print photos because they contained pictures of naked children...our children playing with a hosepipe in then garden.

Isn't is sad that we have allowed society to get to this stage?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> :smthumbup:
> Safe words are a great way to really let both of you get into the moment


I think this is mostly what I was getting at: sometimes the pressure of having to "get into the moment" when I'm just not _feeling_ is is the reason I want my husband to make an assertive move. 

He's not asking for me to accept foreplay, or submit to his caresses, or to caress him back, or to even be all that into it. 

The head games, for me, go away when "the dance" is removed from the equation. And then I can relax and enjoy the ride.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

wise said:


> In this day in age, it is NOT normal for a man to flip his 'low drive' woman over and start having aggressive sex with her. To a lot of these 'low drive' women--they would most likely consider this behavior as rape and what guy needs that for a boring lay any way?


I'd posit that it's NEVER okay to just flip someone over and go at it WITHOUT having done A LOT of communicating up front. 

And perhaps that is something I do not make clear in my post. A safe word is part of an agreed upon, adopted sexual dynamic between two consenting adults. It requires a profound amount of trust between the parties. I don't consider this rape as I could easily stop it. 



wise said:


> It's amazing how some of you women are. You expect your man 'to just take you' when you deny him at all times. You are responsible for your man NOT 'taking you without consent' due to there being in today's world: legal problems.


Hmmm, not sure what the traits are of the "some of you women" you reference. I'm not LD; I'm HD. My husband and I have learned (finally) how my sexual desire works in our relationship. Why would he not want to pay attention to that if it gets him laid as much as he wants after years of only getting laid as much as I wanted (2-4x a month, mostly)? He's not mad about this. 



wise said:


> I don't think you are kinky at all. To me, you are a woman that denied your husband's mutual advances for years with the hopes of him reading your mind. Being kinky and being a mind reader have absolutely nothing to do with each other.


Yes, our sex life sucked for all those years . . . but "just putting out" was not what he wanted. He wanted my sexual desire to meet his; just like it had for our first ten years together. It could not, and never would, with the issues we were having in our marriage. We've confronted those issues, and our sex life soared back. With the repair of our intimacy and the ability to communicate on a deeper level, we were able to examine "what went wrong" and figure out measures to prevent those things from happening again. Including a safe word in our dynamic is only one of the many things we introduced. 



wise said:


> And in my opinion.. there is nothing natural and exotic about 'safe' words. If sex was to come down to using 'safe' words for it, that is grounds for divorce. I rather be single.


I agree that there is nothing natural and exotic about a safeword. Its purely functional, and how it functions in a relationship is up to the parties involved. In some dynamics it can enhance the eroticism of a sex life, in others it could circumvent the usual "hang ups" in communication (verbal or otherwise) between two people. It might be something that one couple never has to use, it might get pulled out weekly for others. 

I don't think I'd like it if my husband approached sex all the time with the attitude, "well, if she doesn't like it, she can always use the safe word!" either. But that's not the case. It's been a useful tool for my husband to be able to push emotional and physical boundaries that I've asked him to push (and that he'd like to push) so that we can move ahead in having the best sex life and the best emotional life that we can have.

I will reiterate: trust is key here. If you don't have that in your spouse, then forget it.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

My wife has 365 safe words one for everyday. The only shot I have is on leap year. LOL

Getting It
I always like reading your posts, you do such a wonderful job of analyzing yourself. So many people here benefit by the insight you and Anon Pink share with us. I only hope that someday my wife is able to do the same.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Always Learning said:


> My wife has 365 safe words one for everyday. The only shot I have is on leap year. LOL
> 
> Getting It
> I always like reading your posts, you do such a wonderful job of analyzing yourself. So many people here benefit by the insight you and Anon Pink share with us. I only hope that someday my wife is able to do the same.


Gee thanks, Always Learning. You made my day.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

GettingIt, my husband and I have used the safe word in the exact same circumstances. He comes home at 4am 5 nights a week. About 4 years ago I told him to "just take me." If I don't want it, I will say the safe word quite clearly. No guesswork, no tentative approaches to wake me. Just do me. 

Some of the BEST orgasms I have ever had have been when I've come out of a deep sleep to find my husband having his wicked way with me. 

"Do it until it hurts....and then keep going" is my motto in the bedroom.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

...and it is awesome when you have a really high pain tolerance because "til it hurts" really never happens. he he


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> ...and it is awesome when you have a really high pain tolerance because "til it hurts" really never happens. he he


Or until you pass out.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ha! yes...but then I'd miss all the fun. unless he taped it for me...he he


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## MisterG (Jan 24, 2014)

wise said:


> In this day in age, it is NOT normal for a man to flip his 'low drive' woman over and start having aggressive sex with her. To a lot of these 'low drive' women--they would most likely consider this behavior as rape and what guy needs that for a boring lay any way?


I agree. It would be asking for a trip to jail and divorce. 

But *GettingIt* was talking about something different. *GettingIt* is a high drive woman and this is something she wanted and encouraged from her husband. She discussed it with her husband and they have a safe word. 

A lot of woman have rape fantasies. Not real rape, but a controlled, role playing event with boundaries and conditions. This is the same sort of thing. It's not for everyone, but between consenting adults, why not?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

A fun way to play date rape is to have him give you some ambien, and then you let yourself black out while he has his naughty, rough, unabashed way with your drugged body. Then he tapes it for you to see the next day. Then it is rape play plus consensual rape porn. Two for one!

I'm sick, I know...no need to tell me.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> A fun way to play date rape is to have him give you some ambien, and then you let yourself black out while he has his naughty, rough, unabashed way with your drugged body. Then he tapes it for you to see the next day. Then it is rape play plus consensual rape porn. Two for one!
> 
> I'm sick, I know...no need to tell me.


your not sick, your honest. 

i have gotten to the point where i realize that my wife wants what she wants. she gets turned on by what she gets turned on by. 

is that wrong? if my wife wants me to spank until she cries and then tell her what to do in bed, and what i will do to her, wouldnt i do it if its what she wants from me? 

i am often surprised at how people are so willing to judge people by their sexual desires. whats even more strange to me is that they will tell someone that they are mentally sick, have daddy issues, etc, while at the same time tell someone who is openly gay that they are just fine the way they are. 

the way i look at it is, if a gay man or woman is not mentally ill, than neither am i or my wife. i am who i am, so is my wife. the trust that comes from knowing that she accepts me for who i am strengthens our marriage. the same goes for her. 


my wife isn't into consensual non-consent. but, if she were, i would still love her all the same and try to fulfill her desires. i love her more than i can put into words, so why wouldn't i do that for her? 

i wish more people were like you. you seem to be completely ok with your sexual desires. i think thats how a married couple SHOULD be. 

i mean, how could someone POSSIBLY be bored in a relationship where their spouse fulfills all of their fantasies?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks Asla! You get it.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> A fun way to play date rape is to have him give you some ambien, and then you let yourself black out while he has his naughty, rough, unabashed way with your drugged body. Then he tapes it for you to see the next day. Then it is rape play plus consensual rape porn. Two for one!
> 
> I'm sick, I know...no need to tell me.



Well, this takes things a _little_ beyond the realm of the safe word, at least as I was thinking of it for this thread. I was thinking that when sex becomes "the elephant in the room" for a couple, sometimes the thought of negotiating it becomes more overwhelming than the thought of the deed itself. If there was a consensual way to remove that negotiation and just get to the deed . . . .well, it's one path that doesn't seem much explored around here, anyway. (Except as kinky fun, that is.)


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes, I know that wasn't what you had in mind and isn't really related to your safe word point.

However, it is related to the overall umbrella consent agreement I have in my marriage, and is a fun kinky game I was sharing, that's all.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> A fun way to play date rape is to have him give you some ambien, and then you let yourself black out while he has his naughty, rough, unabashed way with your drugged body. Then he tapes it for you to see the next day. Then it is rape play plus consensual rape porn. Two for one!
> 
> I'm sick, I know...no need to tell me.


Wow...holy crap!!! Now that is dedication to role playing right there! You wear the crown. lol

:allhail:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

All things, and I mean literally ALL things are possible with enthusiastic consent.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Well, this takes things a _little_ beyond the realm of the safe word, at least as I was thinking of it for this thread. I was thinking that *when sex becomes "the elephant in the room" for a couple, sometimes the thought of negotiating it becomes more overwhelming than the thought of the deed itself.* If there was a consensual way to remove that negotiation and just get to the deed . . . .well, it's one path that doesn't seem much explored around here, anyway. (Except as kinky fun, that is.)


:iagree:


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> A fun way to play date rape is to have him give you some ambien, and then you let yourself black out while he has his naughty, rough, unabashed way with your drugged body. Then he tapes it for you to see the next day. Then it is rape play plus consensual rape porn. Two for one!
> 
> I'm sick, I know...no need to tell me.


Your not sick at all. I have to ask about the black out part though....I am curious...do you really black out (like holding your breath or being wasted?) or you fake it? I would like to do this too, just curious...


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

Safe word is an interesting concept. In the past it could have been a bit helpful. I was never denied but I was aware enough not to ask or make a move when she was upset, angry, depressed, sick, etc. Now we recently came to the understanding that she is willing whenever I am (with some exceptions) and she likes being 'taken'.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Refuse to be played said:


> Safe word is an interesting concept. In the past it could have been a bit helpful. I was never denied but I was aware enough not to ask or make a move when she was upset, angry, depressed, sick, etc. Now we recently came to the understanding that she is willing whenever I am (with some exceptions) and she likes being 'taken'.


Yeah, part of the reason it works for us is that my H tends to gauge my mood and then make assumptions about how I'd react to a sexual advance accordingly. Him gauging my mood, making the assumption, and then altering his mood and behavior accordingly is a process that I can observe and that I find unattractive. So we end up in that loop . . . 

But if we can bring the loop to a stop by having a way for him to act on his desire independent of assumptions about mine . . . then win-win.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> i mean, how could someone POSSIBLY be bored in a relationship where their spouse fulfills all of their fantasies?


Hear, hear.

Or how could someone _stay_ in a relationship where their spouse refuses to fulfill at least most of their fantasies?

I have to say, though, some of our most _interesting_ times have not really been the fulfilling of either of our expressed fantasies, but sort of where we were led at the moment.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

over20 said:


> Your not sick at all. I have to ask about the black out part though....I am curious...do you really black out (like holding your breath or being wasted?) or you fake it? I would like to do this too, just curious...


In the example I gave, I meant black out from the ambien. Which if you've ever taken it or maybe heard this, but you can actually stay awake in something like a sleep walking state when you take it. You don't really remember anything the next day.

But it can be just as fun to just fake it too, and we've played like that, too. 

Personally I can't drink enough to pass out and have that be any fun at all, me no likey too much drinkey.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm sorry but this sounds more like borderline marital rape safe word or not what would you do if your attraction didn't come crashing back just take the quote "Pounding" and of course that's assuming he obey's the safe word. Sorry but going cave man for sex is not my thing.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Doesn't have to be your thing. Enjoy whatever your thing is.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think it's an interesting idea. Would take some pushing for me as well, because it would not be natural for my personality. If I had an indication that it's what she really wanted, I'd probably be game to try.

Definitely sounds like something that could work in a marriage with two normal drive spouses. In many mismatch situations...I just don't know.

How did your husband adapt to the idea after 10 years of rejection? Wasn't that a complete mindfVck for him? I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, and imagine if my wife said something similar to me after all these years....I don't know if I'd actually believe her. Or let myself believe her, if that makes any sense.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Yeah, part of the reason it works for us is that my H tends to gauge my mood and then make assumptions about how I'd react to a sexual advance accordingly. Him gauging my mood, making the assumption, and then altering his mood and behavior accordingly is a process that I can observe and that I find unattractive. So we end up in that loop . . .
> 
> But if we can bring the loop to a stop by having a way for him to act on his desire independent of assumptions about mine . . . then win-win.


Good thing for us that kinda thing didn't turn her off then. I wouldn't say it alter my mood though. If I thought she wouldn't be in the mood, I didn't let it effect me really. I'd basically went ok no biggie and did my own thing for a day or so, then made a move and then we'd be straight.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> ...and it is awesome when you have a really high pain tolerance because "til it hurts" really never happens. he he


This reminds me of a landladys address at a pub in the UK;

Mary Likes
The Prickwell Inn
Tillit
Herts

('Herts' being the abbreviation for 'Hertfordshire', a county)


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I think it's an interesting idea. Would take some pushing for me as well, because it would not be natural for my personality. If I had an indication that it's what she really wanted, I'd probably be game to try.


I don't know how "natural" is it to my H's personality, either. to be honest, we were both so on eggshells after those ten years our "natural" behaviors had become subverted to the dysfunction. Trying to reclaim them has been a process that we both have had to work on. Part of that has been to force ourselves to push through our "triggers" when it comes to sex. For him, that includes stopping the voice in his head that says, "I really want sex, but I can tell she's not in the mood, so I'm not going to try." Because after a few days of that he's horny and frustrated from no sex and my attraction is shut down because I can see he's been gauging and making assumptions. 



Fozzy said:


> Definitely sounds like something that could work in a marriage with two normal drive spouses. In many mismatch situations...I just don't know.


I think it depends on how the lower drive person in the relationship perceives the importance of sex to the overall functionality of the marriage. Also it depends on the willingness of the HD spouse to accept the limitations of the lower drive spouse. That is, the mismatch has to be accepted by both, understood to be a potential problem for both, and actively worked on by both. 

But yes, I do think this works for us because our drives are fairly well matched. It's just that my desire is tricky due to our old dynamic. But I guess that's more the situation I'm referring to: when "drive" isn't so much the issue as "desire." I think the LD spouse, much of the time, is just turned off to her spouse. "Asking" for sex, or starting the process of a slow build up to sex just gives more time for that lack for desire to be brought into focus. I HATE the way it feels to not be sexually attracted to my husband. I HATE feeling like I did for much of those ten years, and now (finally) I can pinpoint why I felt that way. I've explained this to him, and he seems to understand how he can jolt me out of that feeling with this type of sexually aggressive behavior.



Fozzy said:


> How did your husband adapt to the idea after 10 years of rejection? Wasn't that a complete mindfVck for him? I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, and imagine if my wife said something similar to me after all these years....I don't know if I'd actually believe her. Or let myself believe her, if that makes any sense.


Yes, I do think it's a mind fvck for him. As I said, it's hard to just ignore old triggers no matter how much you spouse reassures you. We've both worked really hard in the past year to SHOW the other person that we are trying, though. There are setbacks, but we understand them. It makes a huge difference when one or the other of us can make a leap past the old behaviors. That is one of the reasons it meant SO much to me that my H overcame that voice in his head the other night. It banished my lack of desire instantly--because my lack of desire, in my mind, is what threatens our marriage the most.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If both parties are to blame for the drought it may be easier to come out by mutually banishing the little Voice. On the other hand if his perception is that you were more responsible for the drought than he was the Voice takes a life of its own.

Look up affective psychology while you are at it. If he likes what the risk is about he is more likely and take the risk (of being rejected). 

In either case it takes a lot of effort to overcome 10 years of any undesirable behavior.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I'd posit that it's NEVER okay to just flip someone over and go at it WITHOUT having done A LOT of communicating up front.
> 
> And perhaps that is something I do not make clear in my post. A safe word is part of an agreed upon, adopted sexual dynamic between two consenting adults. It requires a profound amount of trust between the parties. I don't consider this rape as I could easily stop it....
> 
> I will reiterate: trust is key here. If you don't have that in your spouse, then forget it.


I think that's an important aspect of the relationship that either doesn't sink in or is missed entirely by some men.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

NotTooSure said:


> I would say my W safe word is just "No".
> 
> She would claim that she wishes I would that too, but if I did I know I would just get that safe word.


Using the safe word is not something I like to do at all. I've never done it to stop him because I'm angry or not into it. I think having it gives him more confidence to treat me like his desire and instinct tells him to, rather than according to what he is _guessing_ I want. And when he is acting like that, he is acting in a way that I find highly attractive. 

Covertly trying to figure me out=huge turn off for me.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Using the safe word is not something I like to do at all. I've never done it to stop him because I'm angry or not into it. I think having it gives him more confidence to treat me like his desire and instinct tells him to, rather than according to what he is _guessing_ I want. And when he is acting like that, he is acting in a way that I find highly attractive.


Instinct?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> Instinct?


Yup. What he wants to do, what he feels the impulse to do, what he feels would satisfy him based on his assessment of the situation. 

But remember this is OUR negotiated dynamic, and it corrects behavior in that we had fallen into that neither of us liked.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Yup. What he wants to do, what he feels the impulse to do, what he feels would satisfy him based on his assessment of the situation.
> 
> But remember this is OUR negotiated dynamic, and it corrects behavior in that we had fallen into that neither of us liked.


Okay, I understand. And I did not mean that question critically.

My own personal observation for whatever (little) it's worth is that primal emotions exist in pairs, like fear and anger for example. Anger can make you do something heroic that you probably wouldn't have done if you had time to think about it. Fear will (hopefully) stop you from doing something absolutely suicidal.

The urge to take what you want sexually in normally adjusted, mentally healthy men is balanced by an almost equally strong urge to protect. The sheer strength of the conflict here can be seen in reactions like that of wise on this thread.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> The sheer strength of the conflict here can be seen in reactions like that of wise on this thread.


perceptive.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I don't know if this has been mentioned but if you look up top fantasies for women having their husband just take them is usually pretty far up there. A safe word is a good idea. My husband and I were just talking about this last night. We can both be passive aggressive people and not certain what the other is thinking and don't necessarily want the other to feel rejected. So we need a safe word to determine sex or cuddling.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

onedge said:


> I don't know if this has been mentioned but if you look up top fantasies for women having their husband just take them is usually pretty far up there. A safe word is a good idea. My husband and I were just talking about this last night. We can both be passive aggressive people and not certain what the other is thinking and don't necessarily want the other to feel rejected. So we need a safe word to determine sex or cuddling.


It is this dynamic that I had in mind, but more for when the male in the dynamic has trouble with assuming rejection so he doesn't initiate, and the female feels shut down because of that hesitation but would welcome an aggressive initiation. 

I can see how it can be useful in your dynamic, though, where neither of you is an habitual rejecter, but both of you tend to incorrectly read your partner. 

As much as I'm a huge proponent of communication, I've come to realize that verbal communication fails between my husband and me often enough that I actually prefer him to *physically SHOW* me what he wants.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think I'll add this thread to the list of threads that I will use to vett my next wife.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think I'll add this thread to the list of threads that I will use to vett my next wife.


Why not show your current wife your vetting threads?

Would she even deign to read them?


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

popcorn

that was my ex wifes safe word (her being an ex has nothing to do with safe words LOL)

She used to love it when I would come up behind her at the washing machine and take her, or in the backyard garden, or in the kitchen...not say a word, no seduction, just take her...aggressively and roughly, not taking no for an answer...and she did say no a lot

if she was genuinely NOT in the mood or wasnt feeling well she would say "popcorn" and I IMMEDIATELY stopped...she never waitied until I was half way there to do this, she would IMMEDIATELY use the word right when I started manhandling her

on a few occasions we did fantasy/rape role play, and it got too intense and she used the word, when I was almost there...and it was like dousing my tool in cold water...immediate grinding halt...its a powerful word

now that we are divorced though, I do find myself eating popcorn again...and enjoying it...life is good


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## calldormant (Nov 17, 2013)

Interesting. 

Any man out there want to test out this practice and see how will work out in court after being charged with rape?

"Well your honor, I ignored all her cues about not consenting and forced myself on her anyway. So, in any event because she didn't say the safe word, I'm cool right?".

The only pounding that's gonna happen will be prison. Enjoy it fellas.:smthumbup:

Consent 
----is----
ASKING
EVERY TIME


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## calldormant (Nov 17, 2013)

calldormant said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Any man out there want to test out this practice and see where it how will work out in court after being charged with rape?
> 
> ...


And no, I'm not being a troll.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

calldormant said:


> I
> Any man out there want to test out this practice and see how will work out in court after being charged with rape?


With kinky sex, it can be a fine line, but in my amateur bourgeois opinion, I think GettingIt is still on the safe side here.

A good example of someone on the wrong side of that line is author E.L. James in the book, _Fifty Shades of Grey_ especially where she introduces the idea of a legally binding contract between C. Grey and A. Steele. (Chapter 11)

The problem with the whole idea is that basic human rights can't be negotiated away by private agreement. Not ever. "No" still means "no" regardless of what a person has said or even signed previously.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

calldormant said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Any man out there want to test out this practice and see how will work out in court after being charged with rape?
> 
> ...


If it freaks your out, if you can't relax or trust it, if you fear it could end as you describe, then you're not a candidate for a safe word relationship. Nothing wrong with that. It takes two to willingly consent to this--I don't advocate it for anyone and everyone. In fact, I'm not sure I advocate it at all so much as I observe how much it's improved my own marriage and wonder if it would/could work for others. Is that advocating? Hmmm. Maybe. :scratchhead:

I don't think its all that uncommon--to have a safe word, I mean. It enhances the eroticism for lots of couples.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

calldormant said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Any man out there want to test out this practice and see how will work out in court after being charged with rape?
> 
> ...


Obviously this is something discussed outside of the bedroom and agreed upon. It wouldn't work for every couple because every couple doesn't have the same kinks, titillations, arousals, or interests. I find asking for consent distasteful. Lady down the block might require it. 

The things I do in the bedroom shock my friends. And the things they DON'T do surprise me!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

the safe word is your bank routing #


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> A fun way to play date rape is to have him give you some ambien, and then you let yourself black out while he has his naughty, rough, unabashed way with your drugged body. Then he tapes it for you to see the next day. Then it is rape play plus consensual rape porn. Two for one!
> 
> I'm sick, I know...no need to tell me.


Never tried that, and to be honest probably a step too far for a couple of oldies.

But we have done the nasty burglar finding a woman asleep in bed.

"Don't bother screaming, I've tied your husband up downstairs"

*pull back sheets*

"I'm going to enjoy you."

Not done anything like that for ages.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> the safe word is your bank routing #


Too hard to scream out all those numbers in the heat of passion. Better to just get his debit card first.


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